Cynulliad Cenedlaethol CymruNational Assembly for Wales · Cyfarfod llawnPlenary sitting
Dydd Mawrth 18 Ionawr 2000
Tuesday 18 January 2000
CynnwysContents
- 3Datganiadau gan y LlywyddStatements by the Presiding Officer
- 3Cwestiynau i’r Prif YsgrifennyddQuestions to the First Secretary
- 3Troseddau Treisgar (Dioddefwyr o Grwpiau Ethnig Lleiafrifol)Violent Crimes (Victims from Ethnic Minority Groups)
- 6Allgáu Cymdeithasol (Gwario ar Iechyd)Social Exclusion (Health Spending)
- 9Allgáu Cymdeithasol (Cau Swyddfeydd Post Gwledig)Social Exclusion (Closure of Rural Post Offices)
- 13Rhan y Cynulliad yng Nghyngor yr YnysoeddThe Assembly’s Role in the Council of the Isles
- 14Gwerthu Canolfan Lôn Abaty, BangorSale of Abbey Road Centre, Bangor
- 16Map Cymorth Rhanbarthol Dewisol CymruWales’s Regional Selective Assistance Map
- 19Cwestiwn BrysUrgent Question
- 24Datganiad ar y Gwasanaeth Iechyd GwladolStatement on the National Health Service
- 40Datganiad ar Gefnogi Ieuenctid yng NghymruStatement on Supporting Young People in Wales
- 49Datganiad BusnesBusiness Statement
- 52Cynhwysiant Cymdeithasol: Cynnydd ar y Cynllun Gweithredu DrafftSocial Inclusion: Progress on the Draft Action Plan 7 o bleidleisiau7 votes
- 83Gorchymyn Tai (Hawl i Brynu) (Blaenoriaeth Arwystlon) (Cymru) 2000Housing (Right to Buy) (Priority of Charges) (Wales) Order 2000 1 bleidlais1 vote
- 85Dadl FerShort Debate
PleidleisiauVotes
| PleidlaisVote | O blaidFor | YmatalAbstain | Yn erbynAgainst | CanlyniadResult |
|---|---|---|---|---|
| Cynhwysiant Cymdeithasol: Cynnydd ar y Cynllun Gweithredu DrafftSocial Inclusion: Progress on the Draft Action Plan | ||||
| Gwelliant 1Amendment 1 | 13 | 0 | 42 | GwrthodwydRejected |
| Gwelliant 2Amendment 2 | 48 | 7 | 0 | DerbyniwydAdopted |
| Gwelliant 3Amendment 3 | 55 | 0 | 0 | DerbyniwydAdopted |
| Gwelliant 4Amendment 4 | 55 | 0 | 0 | DerbyniwydAdopted |
| Gwelliant 5Amendment 5 | 56 | 0 | 0 | DerbyniwydAdopted |
| Gwelliant 6Amendment 6 | 56 | 0 | 0 | DerbyniwydAdopted |
| Cynnig wedi’i ddiwygioAmended motion | 56 | 0 | 0 | DerbyniwydAdopted |
| Gorchymyn Tai (Hawl i Brynu) (Blaenoriaeth Arwystlon) (Cymru) 2000Housing (Right to Buy) (Priority of Charges) (Wales) Order 2000 | ||||
| CynnigMotion | 45 | 0 | 0 | DerbyniwydAdopted |
TrafodionProceedings
Cyfarfu’r Cynulliad am 2 p.m. gyda’r Llywydd yn y Gadair.
The Assembly met at 2 p.m. with the Presiding Officer in the Chair.
Datganiadau gan y Llywydd
Statements by the Presiding Officer
Dafydd Elis-Thomas Y Llywydd siaradwyd yn Gymraeg t. 3
Dafydd Elis-Thomas The Presiding Officer spoken in Welsh p. 3
Prynhawn da. Fe’ch croesawaf i gyd yn ôl, yn arbennig y rhai nad oedd gyda ni ychydig cyn y Nadolig: Karen Sinclair a Dafydd Wigley. Yr wyf yn falch o’ch gweld yn ôl.
Good afternoon. I welcome you all back, especially those who were not with us just before Christmas: Karen Sinclair and Dafydd Wigley. I am pleased to see you back.
Ynghyd â John Lloyd, y Clerc, cynrychiolais y Cynulliad ym mhymthegfed Cynhadledd Llywyddion y Gymanwlad yn Canberra, Awstralia, yn ystod yr egwyl. Cawsom gyfle i drafod gyda chydweithwyr yno, i ymweld â’r senedd-dy ffederal ac i ymweld â De Cymru Newydd a pharhau ein cysylltiad â’r senedd yn y fan honno. Bydd y Clerc yn rhoi adroddiad cyflawn ar ein gweithgareddau ar y fewnrwyd yn nes ymlaen.
Along with John Lloyd, the Clerk, I represented the Assembly in the fifteenth Conference of the Presiding Officers of the Commonwealth in Canberra, Australia, during the recess. We had an opportunity to discuss with colleagues there, to visit the federal parliament and to visit New South Wales and continue our association with the parliament there. The Clerk will place a full report of our activities on the intranet later on.
Cwestiynau i’r Prif Ysgrifennydd
Questions to the First Secretary
Troseddau Treisgar (Dioddefwyr o Grwpiau Ethnig Lleiafrifol)
Violent Crimes (Victims from Ethnic Minority Groups)
How many violent crimes have been committed in Wales over the last three years in which the victims have been from ethnic minority groups? (OAQ2946)
Faint o droseddau treisgar a gyflawnwyd yng Nghymru dros y tair blynedd diwethaf lle’r oedd y dioddefwyr o grwpiau ethnig lleiafrifol? (OAQ2946)
Alun Michael The First Secretary spoken in English p. 3
Alun Michael Y Prif Ysgrifennydd siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 3
Violent crimes against members from ethnic minority communities are not currently recorded separately but, in future, details of racially aggravated crimes—under sections 28 to 32 of the Crime and Disorder Act 1998—will appear in the recorded crime statistics published by the Home Office. This is one of several steps that the Government is taking to combat racial violence.
Ni chofnodir troseddau treisgar yn erbyn aelodau o gymunedau ethnig lleiafrifol ar wahân ond, yn y dyfodol, bydd manylion am droseddau a achosir gan hiliaeth—o dan adrannau 28 i 32 o Ddeddf Trosedd ac Anhrefn 1998—yn ymddangos yn yr ystadegau o’r troseddau a gofnodwyd a gyhoeddir gan y Swyddfa Gartref. Mae hwn yn un o blith nifer o gamau y mae’r Llywodraeth yn eu cymryd i ymladd trais hiliol.
I welcome that answer. In order to learn lessons from the Lawrence inquiry we must record incidents of that nature. Is it not the case that in south Wales, for example, the number of racist incidents doubled last year? I do not know what the current figures are, but I am sure that you do. Do they show an increase in the number of racist incidents as a whole, as opposed to the incidents of violent crime to which I referred in my question? I realise that there is an increase in the reporting of racist incidents, but the UK picture as a whole suggests that there is an increase in the amount of violent crime. That is worrying in view of the Labour Party’s pre-election promises.
Croesawaf yr ateb hwnnw. Er mwyn dysgu gwersi oddi wrth ymchwiliad Lawrence rhaid inni gofnodi digwyddiadau o’r natur honno. Onid yw’n wir, yn ne Cymru, er enghraifft, fod nifer y digwyddiadau hiliol wedi dyblu y llynedd? Ni wn beth yw’r ffigurau presennol, ond yr wyf yn sicr y gwyddoch chi. A ydynt yn dangos cynnydd yn nifer y digwyddiadau hiliol yn eu cyfanrwydd, o’i gyferbynnu â’r troseddau treisgar penodol y cyfeiriais atynt yn fy nghwestiwn? Sylweddolaf fod cynnydd yn yr adroddiadau am ddigwyddiadau hiliol, ond mae’r darlun ar gyfer y DU gyfan yn awgrymu bod cynnydd yn nifer y troseddau treisgar. Mae hynny yn peri gofid yng ngolwg addewidion y Blaid Lafur cyn yr etholiad.
Alun Michael The First Secretary spoken in English p. 4
Alun Michael Y Prif Ysgrifennydd siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 4
Care is needed with this issue. These are matters for the Home Office, but I know a little about them, as I had ministerial responsibility for them prior to becoming Secretary of State for Wales. One action we took was to change the methods of recording so that they were more honest. There were many violent incidents other than those included in the statistics and in many cases they were not minor incidents. That applies to violent crime in general and, within that, to crimes of violence against racial minorities. We therefore have to be careful, at this point of transition from old numbers to new numbers, not to misinterpret the figures. I agree that people have been encouraged to report crimes and that this may also have an effect on the figures. The figures announced today are for the previous year, which means that we are not into the new reporting regime.
Mae angen gofal gyda’r mater hwn. Mae’r rhain yn faterion i’r Swyddfa Gartref, ond gwn ychydig amdanynt, gan fod gennyf gyfrifoldeb gweinidogol drostynt cyn dod yn Ysgrifennydd Gwladol Cymru. Un peth a wnaethom oedd newid y dulliau cofnodi fel eu bod yn fwy gonest. Yr oedd llawer o ddigwyddiadau treisgar heblaw’r rhai a gynhwyswyd yn yr ystadegau ac mewn llawer o achosion nid mân ddigwyddiadau mohonynt. Mae hynny’n wir am droseddu treisiol yn gyffredinol ac, oddi mewn i hynny, am droseddau treisiol yn erbyn lleiafrifoedd hiliol. Felly rhaid inni fod yn ofalus, ar y pwynt trawsnewid hwn o’r hen rifau i’r rhifau newydd, i beidio â chamddehongli’r ffigurau. Cytunaf fod pobl wedi eu hannog i adrodd am droseddau ac y gall hyn hefyd effeithio ar y ffigurau. Mae’r ffigurau a gyhoeddwyd heddiw yn rhai ar gyfer y flwyddyn flaenorol, sydd yn golygu nad ydym wedi dechrau ar y gyfundrefn adrodd newydd.
The Crime and Disorder Act 1998 introduced a number of offences that have significantly higher penalties where it can be shown that the offence was racially aggravated. We also introduced the recording of these crimes. Therefore, in future, we will be able to maintain that monitoring. I agree with you about the importance of Sir William Macpherson’s report on the death of Stephen Lawrence. I was involved in the commissioning of that report and in evaluating the response to it. I hope that it will have a significant impact on how racially motivated crime is regarded and investigated. There are signs that it has resulted in a culture change on many of the issues.
Cyflwynodd Deddf Trosedd ac Anhrefn 1998 nifer o droseddau ac iddynt gosbau uwch o lawer lle y gellir dangos bod y trosedd wedi ei achosi gan hiliaeth. Cyflwynasom gofnodi’r troseddau hyn hefyd. Felly, yn y dyfodol, byddwn yn gallu parhau â’r monitro hwnnw. Cytunaf â chi ynghylch pwysigrwydd adroddiad Syr William Macpherson ar farwolaeth Stephen Lawrence. Yr oeddwn yn gysylltiedig â chomisiynu’r adroddiad hwnnw a gwerthuso’r ymateb iddo. Gobeithiaf y caiff effaith sylweddol ar y modd yr ystyrir ac yr ymchwilir i droseddu â chymhelliad hiliol. Mae arwyddion bod hyn wedi arwain at newid mewn diwylliant ar lawer o’r materion.
Do you recognise that it is important to analyse and collect the crime statistics against people from ethnic minorities, to measure any possible impact on the new communities that we will be welcoming to Wales under the Immigration and Asylum Act 1999, to ensure that they are safe when they join us.
A ydych yn cydnabod ei bod yn bwysig dadansoddi a chasglu’r ystadegau am droseddau yn erbyn pobl o leiafrifoedd ethnig, i fesur unrhyw effaith bosibl ar y cymunedau newydd y byddwn yn eu croesawu i Gymru o dan Ddeddf Mewnfudo a Nodded 1999, er mwyn sicrhau y byddant yn ddiogel pan ddeuant atom.
Alun Michael The First Secretary spoken in English p. 5
Alun Michael Y Prif Ysgrifennydd siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 5
One thing the new figures do—and again this is a Home Office issue although we are bound to take an interest in it in Wales—is to distinguish between levels of offending and levels of violence in different parts of areas, towns and cities. I welcome that because it helps with the identification of problems. It is necessary for the crime and disorder audit, which then informs the crime and disorder partnership in trying to reduce crime in any area. Knowing the problem is the first step towards solving it. We, as an Assembly, have been monitoring the development of those partnerships and the assessments over the past year, and we need to continue to do that.
Un peth a wna’r ffigurau newydd—ac unwaith eto mae hyn yn fater i’r Swyddfa Gartref er ein bod yn sicr o ymddiddori ynddo yng Nghymru—yw gwahaniaethu rhwng lefelau troseddu a lefelau trais mewn gwahanol rannau o ardaloedd, trefi a dinasoedd. Croesawaf hynny oherwydd mae’n gymorth wrth ddynodi problemau. Mae’n angenrheidiol ar gyfer yr archwiliad trosedd ac anhrefn, a fydd wedyn yn goleuo’r bartneriaeth trosedd ac anhrefn wrth iddi geisio lleihau troseddu mewn unrhyw ardal. Adnabod y broblem yw’r cam cyntaf at ei datrys. Buom ni, fel Cynulliad, yn monitro datblygiad y partneriaethau hynny a’r asesiadau dros y flwyddyn ddiwethaf ac mae angen inni barhau i wneud hynny.
I also welcome the fact that we will have separate reporting. The Assembly might wish to consider how the Crown Prosecution Service could be encouraged to ensure that the separate reporting proceeds in terms of separate action. I have a question relating to the Rhondda Cynon Taff area. The statistics that Jenny quoted show a real problem. In 1998-99 there were 137 racially motivated incidents recorded in Cardiff, which has a substantial population from the ethnic minorities, and 120 recorded in Rhondda Cynon Taff, which has a minority ethnic population of only 0.8 per cent. I wonder whether we could work closely with our local authority colleagues on this issue, through the Partnership Council, in considering the best way of stamping out racism, and lend particular support to organisations like the Valleys Race Equality Council in my constituency, to ensure that race equality councils have adequate resources to do their job?
Croesawaf innau’r ffaith y bydd gennym adrodd ar wahân. Efallai y bydd y Cynulliad yn dymuno ystyried sut y gellir annog Gwasanaeth Erlyn y Goron i sicrhau bod yr adrodd ar wahân yn parhau ar ffurf gweithredu ar wahân. Mae gennyf gwestiwn ynghylch ardal Rhondda Cynon Taf. Mae’r ystadegau a ddyfynnodd Jenny yn dangos problem wirioneddol. Yn 1998-99 cofnodwyd 137 o ddigwyddiadau â chymhelliad hiliol yng Nghaerdydd, sydd â phoblogaeth sylweddol o blith y lleiafrifoedd ethnig, a chofnodwyd 120 yn Rhondda Cynon Taf, sydd â phoblogaeth ethnig leiafrifol o ddim ond 0.8 y cant. Tybed a allem weithio’n agos â’n cydweithwyr mewn awdurdodau lleol ar y mater hwn, drwy’r Cyngor Partneriaeth, wrth ystyried y dull gorau o ddileu hiliaeth, a rhoi cefnogaeth arbennig i gyrff fel Cyngor Cydraddoldeb Hiliol y Cymoedd yn fy etholaeth, er mwyn sicrhau y caiff cynghorau cydraddoldeb hiliol adnoddau digonol i wneud eu gwaith?
Alun Michael The First Secretary spoken in English p. 6
Alun Michael Y Prif Ysgrifennydd siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 6
There may be issues that are appropriate to raise in the Partnership Council, but we would have to be clear what issues we were raising and the intended outcome. The basic responsibility for looking at levels of crime—and this applies to any crime, including racist offences—lies jointly with the local authority and the police. It is their responsibility to identify the problems and say what needs to be done, through the partnership mechanisms at a local level, to deal with those problems. If there are aberrations in the figures, one must not take them at face value but find what lies behind them. The first step is to discuss them with the local authority and the police. I hope that, given any figures that give cause for concern, they would be ready to discuss and analyse the problem and see what needs to be done.
Efallai fod materion y mae’n briodol eu codi yn y Cyngor Partneriaeth, ond byddai’n rhaid inni fod yn glir ynghylch pa faterion yr ydym yn eu codi a’r canlyniad arfaethedig. Mae’r cyfrifoldeb sylfaenol dros edrych ar lefelau troseddu—ac mae hyn yn berthnasol i unrhyw drosedd, gan gynnwys troseddau hiliol—yn perthyn ar y cyd i’r awdurdod lleol a’r heddlu. Eu cyfrifoldeb hwy yw dynodi’r problemau a dweud beth y mae angen ei wneud, drwy’r mecanweithiau partneriaeth ar lefel leol, i ymdrin â’r problemau hynny. Os oes gwyriadau yn y ffigurau, ni ddylid eu derbyn ar eu golwg ond canfod yr hyn sydd y tu ôl iddynt. Y cam cyntaf yw eu trafod â’r awdurdod lleol a’r heddlu. Gobeithiaf, o dderbyn unrhyw ffigurau sydd yn peri pryder, y byddent yn barod i drafod a dadansoddi’r broblem a gweld beth y mae angen ei wneud.
Allgáu Cymdeithasol (Gwario ar Iechyd)
Social Exclusion (Health Spending)
What action is the First Secretary proposing to take to reduce social exclusion through health spending? (OAQ2942)
Pa gamau y mae’r Prif Ysgrifennydd am eu cymryd i leihau allgáu cymdeithasol drwy wario ar iechyd? (OAQ2942)
Alun Michael The First Secretary spoken in English p. 6
Alun Michael Y Prif Ysgrifennydd siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 6
I refer Nick to the White Paper, ‘Putting Patients First’. We want to ensure that services are planned and prioritised according to need and that local communities are engaged fully in the decision-making process and that there is equity of access to treatment and care for all groups. Health improvement programmes will promote social inclusion by tackling the link between deprivation and health. We want to end inequality of access for the most disadvantaged people and communities.
Cyfeiriaf Nick at y Papur Gwyn, ‘Rhoi Cleifion yn Gyntaf’. Yr ydym am sicrhau y caiff gwasanaethau eu cynllunio a’u blaenoriaethu yn ôl yr angen ac y cymer cymunedau lleol ran lawn yn y broses benderfynu ac y ceir cydraddoldeb mynediad i driniaeth a gofal ar gyfer pob grŵp. Bydd rhaglenni gwella iechyd yn hybu cynhwysiant cymdeithasol drwy ymdrin â’r cysylltiad rhwng amddifadedd a iechyd. Yr ydym am derfynu anghydraddoldeb mynediad ar gyfer y bobl a’r cymunedau mwyaf difreintiedig.
We know about the First Secretary’s political priorities, shown most recently yesterday, bonding while Wales burns. However, yesterday—when you were not grabbing your predecessor warmly by the throat for telling the truth about the abject errors and disaster of the bungled Objective 1 funding exercise—did you find time to speak to Jane Hutt about the dire waiting list situation, which despite the Government’s pledges has become far worse under this Government, particularly the out-patient waiting list? In the area I represent, and indeed the area you represent, operations have been cancelled, including day surgery at Withybush General Hospital last month. At Glangwili West Wales General Hospital, the medical unit has had to close. The position has become far worse and the latest we hear is that nurses’ pay is to increase and must be paid for out of existing resources, which can only mean further cuts and increases in the waiting lists. Can we expect anything from this administration other than a taskforce?
Gwyddom am flaenoriaethau gwleidyddol y Prif Ysgrifennydd, a ddangoswyd yn fwyaf diweddar ddoe, cydasio tra bo Cymru’n llosgi. Fodd bynnag, ddoe—pan nad oeddech yn gafael yn gynnes yn eich rhagflaenydd gerfydd ei wddf am ddweud y gwir am gamgymeriadau gresynus a thrychineb yr ymarfer ariannu Amcan 1 aflwyddiannus—a gawsoch amser i siarad â Jane Hutt ynghylch sefyllfa enbyd y rhestrau aros, sydd er gwaethaf addewidion y Llywodraeth wedi gwaethygu’n fwy o lawer o dan y Llywodraeth hon, yn enwedig y rhestr aros i gleifion allanol? Yn yr ardal a gynrychiolaf fi, ac yn wir yr ardal a gynrychiolwch chi, mae llawdriniaethau wedi eu diddymu, gan gynnwys llawdriniaeth ddydd yn Ysbyty Cyffredinol Llwyn Helyg y mis diwethaf. Yn Ysbyty Cyffredinol Gorllewin Cymru Glangwili, bu’n rhaid i’r uned feddygol gau. Gwaethygodd y sefyllfa’n fwy o lawer a’r diweddaraf a glywsom yw bod y tâl i nyrsys i gynyddu a bod rhaid talu am hynny o’r adnoddau presennol, sydd yn sicr o olygu toriadau pellach a chodiadau yn y rhestrau aros. A allwn ddisgwyl rhywbeth oddi wrth y weinyddiaeth hon heblaw tasglu?
Alun Michael The First Secretary spoken in English p. 7
Alun Michael Y Prif Ysgrifennydd siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 7
The first part of your question sounded like it was for Westminster, as did the soundbite at the end. The bit in the middle was serious and we are seriously addressing that. You know full well, Nick, that we have addressed the problems in the health service in a way that they have never been addressed before. We inherited a situation where nobody knew the extent of the chaos in the health service, although we knew it was in chaos. Nobody knew the level of debt until we revealed it. We revealed that it was far worse than we had feared and certainly far worse than had been hidden, and almost created, by the previous Government. It is easy to get involved in knock-about. We have undertaken the serious work of identifying the problems, working with those in the health service and sharing the problem across the Assembly and with the Committee with which Jane has been working closely. There are problems that would be helped by additional finance, but the problems of the health service in Wales are not just financial ones, but managerial and organisational ones which we have inherited and are tackling. We take them seriously.
Yr oedd rhan gyntaf eich cwestiwn yn swnio fel petai ar gyfer San Steffan, yn yr un modd â’r datganiad bachog ar y diwedd. Yr oedd y rhan yn y canol o ddifrif ac yr ydym yn ymdrin o ddifrif â hynny. Gwyddoch o’r gorau, Nick, ein bod wedi ymdrin â’r problemau yn y gwasanaeth iechyd mewn modd na welwyd erioed o’r blaen. Etifeddasom sefyllfa lle na wyddai unrhywun am faint yr anhrefn yn y gwasanaeth iechyd, er y gwyddem ei fod mewn anhrefn. Ni wyddai unrhywun faint y ddyled nes inni ei ddatgelu. Datgelasom ei bod yn waeth o lawer na’r hyn yr oeddem wedi ei ofni ac yn sicr yn waeth o lawer na’r hyn a gelwyd, ac a grewyd bron, gan y Llywodraeth flaenorol. Mae’n hawdd dechrau cymryd rhan mewn colbio. Ymgymerasom â’r gwaith difrifol o ddynodi’r problemau, gweithio gyda’r rhai yn y gwasanaeth iechyd a rhannu’r broblem ar draws y Cynulliad a chyda’r Pwyllgor y bu Jane yn gweithio’n agos ag ef. Mae problemau y gellir eu helpu drwy gyllid ychwanegol, ond nid rhai ariannol yn unig yw problemau’r gwasanaeth iechyd yng Nghymru, ond rhai rheolaethol a threfniadol yr ydym wedi eu hetifeddu ac yr ydym yn ymdrin â hwy. Yr ydym o ddifrif yn eu cylch.
Will the First Secretary take the opportunity today to acknowledge a fact that the Assembly Secretary for Health and Social Services has steadfastly refused to acknowledge, that there is a crisis facing the health service in Wales? Doctors, nurses, health managers and all those working in the health service have said that time and again. Will he accept that the setting up of another committee masquerading as a taskforce is not the answer to the deep-seated problems that we now face? The Prime Minister made a statement on Sunday that there will be extra money for the health service. Will the First Secretary tell us how much of that will come to Wales?
A fydd y Prif Ysgrifennydd yn manteisio ar y cyfle heddiw i gydnabod ffaith y mae Ysgrifennydd Iechyd a Gwasanaethau Cymdeithasol y Cynulliad wedi gwrthod yn ddi-syfl ei gydnabod, sef bod argyfwng yn wynebu’r gwasanaeth iechyd yng Nghymru? Mae meddygon, nyrsys, rheolwyr iechyd a phawb sydd yn gweithio yn y gwasanaeth iechyd wedi dweud hynny dro ar ôl tro. A fydd yn derbyn nad yw sefydlu pwyllgor arall sydd yn esgus bod yn dasglu yn ateb i’r problemau dwfn a wynebwn yn awr? Gwnaeth y Prif Weinidog ddatganiad ddydd Sul y bydd arian ychwanegol ar gyfer y gwasanaeth iechyd. A fydd y Prif Ysgrifennydd yn dweud wrthym faint o hynny a ddaw i Gymru?
Alun Michael The First Secretary spoken in English p. 8
Alun Michael Y Prif Ysgrifennydd siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 8
I acknowledge that there are deep-seated problems in the health service. They are not just financial problems, but management and structural ones. Over the last 15 months we have done a great deal. We have restructured trusts so that there is a single health service for Wales once more. That is coming into place, along with the development of local health groups so that local need is the measure of the services given. Facing up to the financial problems is a matter for us, but also one for health authorities and trusts. We have created a structure that enables the facts to be known and, therefore, all parts of the service to be engaged.
Cydnabyddaf fod problemau dwfn yn y gwasanaeth iechyd. Nid problemau ariannol yn unig mohonynt, ond rhai rheolaethol a strwythurol. Gwnaethom lawer iawn dros y 15 mis diwethaf. Ailstrwythurasom yr ymddiriedolaethau fel bod gwasanaeth iechyd sengl i Gymru unwaith eto. Mae hynny’n dod i’w le, ynghyd â datblygu grwpiau iechyd lleol fel mai’r angen lleol yw’r mesur o’r gwasanaethau a roddir. Mae wynebu’r problemau ariannol yn fater i ni, ond yn un hefyd i awdurdodau iechyd ac ymddiriedolaethau. Creasom strwythur sydd yn ei gwneud yn bosibl i’r ffeithiau ddod yn hysbys ac, felly, i bob rhan o’r gwasanaeth fod yn gysylltiedig.
On additional funds for the health service, I do not know of any figures being given. This matter will be considered in the spending review. The Assembly will receive a fair share of any additional funding for the health service in Wales that may become available, whether in the short or long term.
Ynghylch cyllid ychwanegol i’r gwasanaeth iechyd, ni wn am unrhyw ffigurau a roddwyd. Ystyrir y mater hwn yn yr adolygiad o wariant. Bydd y Cynulliad yn derbyn cyfran deg o unrhyw gyllid ychwanegol i’r gwasanaeth iechyd yng Nghymru a allai fod ar gael, boed yn y tymor byr neu’r tymor hir.
People who live in Merthyr Tydfil, in my constituency, are 30 per cent less likely to reach their seventy-fifth birthday than those in other Welsh communities on average, because of the direct link between poverty, deprivation and ill-health. Do you agree that there is no formula for adjusting mainstream health budget lines to take account of such links? That is further compounded by problems at a lower level within health authority areas where, particularly in my community, the link between the delivery of primary and secondary health care and deprivation indices is often difficult to spot.
Mae pobl sydd yn byw ym Merthyr Tudful, yn fy etholaeth i, 30 y cant yn llai tebygol o gyrraedd eu pymthegfed pen-blwydd a thrigain na’r rhai mewn cymunedau eraill yng Nghymru ar gyfarataledd, oherwydd y cysylltiad uniongyrchol rhwng tlodi, amddifadedd a iechyd gwael. A gytunwch nad oes fformwla ar gyfer cymhwyso llinellau yn y gyllideb iechyd brif ffrwd i roi ystyriaeth i gysylltiadau o’r fath? Gwaethygir hynny ymhellach gan broblemau ar lefel is oddi mewn i ardaloedd awdurdodau lleol lle y mae’n anodd, yn enwedig yn fy nghymuned i, canfod y cysylltiad rhwng cyflenwi gofal iechyd sylfaenol ac eilaidd a mynegeion amddifadedd.
Alun Michael The First Secretary spoken in English p. 9
Alun Michael Y Prif Ysgrifennydd siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 9
That is a good point. Problems such as disabilities and diseases put pressure on individual areas. There are often problems for some of the most deprived communities in urban and rural areas. We are reviewing the revenue allocation formula to improve the way in which we take account of deprivation factors. That is not easy.
Mae hynny’n bwynt da. Mae problemau fel anableddau ac afiechydon yn rhoi pwysau ar ardaloedd unigol. Ceir problemau’n aml mewn rhai o’r cymunedau mwyaf difreintiedig mewn ardaloedd trefol a gwledig. Yr ydym yn adolygu’r fformwla dyrannu refeniw er mwyn gwella’r modd yr ydym yn rhoi ystyriaeth i ffactorau amddifadedd. Nid yw hynny’n hawdd.
I suggest that your colleagues in Westminster may be able to make more money available in the short, medium or long term by scrapping their plans to lower income tax by 1p and diverting that money into the health service, where it is so obviously needed.
Awgrymaf y gallai eich cydweithwyr yn San Steffan sicrhau bod mwy o arian ar gael yn y tymor byr, canolig neu hir drwy gael gwared ar eu cynlluniau i ostwng treth incwm o 1g ac ailgyfeirio’r arian hwnnw i’r gwasanaeth iechyd, lle y mae angen amlwg amdano.
Alun Michael The First Secretary spoken in English p. 9
Alun Michael Y Prif Ysgrifennydd siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 9
I think I have heard that proposition somewhere before. Taxation is a matter for the Chancellor of the Exchequer.
Credaf imi glywed yr awgrym hwnnw rywle o’r blaen. Mater i Ganghellor y Trysorlys yw trethiant.
Allgáu Cymdeithasol (Cau Swyddfeydd Post Gwledig)
Social Exclusion (Closure of Rural Post Offices)
What steps are planned to deal with the increased social exclusion caused by the closure of rural post offices? (OAQ2950)
Pa gamau y bwriedir eu cymryd i ymdrin â’r cynnydd mewn allgáu cymdeithasol o ganlyniad i gau swyddfeydd post gwledig? (OAQ2950)
Alun Michael The First Secretary spoken in English p. 9
Alun Michael Y Prif Ysgrifennydd siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 9
I share your concern. Rural post offices provide a vital service in small towns and villages in Wales and we want them to continue to do so. Given the Assembly’s concern to promote social inclusion, we have made representations to the Cabinet Office on this. That Office’s performance and innovation unit is undertaking a study of the post office network and the social value of post offices. The study is due to be completed this spring and I am certain that Members will want to have a debate on the study once it is published.
Rhannaf eich pryder. Mae swyddfeydd post gwledig yn darparu gwasanaeth hanfodol mewn trefi bychain a phentrefi yng Nghymru ac yr ydym am iddynt barhau i wneud hynny. Yng ngolwg diddordeb y Cynulliad mewn hybu cynhwysiant cymdeithasol, yr ydym wedi cyflwyno sylwadau i Swyddfa’r Cabinet ar hyn. Mae uned berfformiad ac arloesi’r Swyddfa honno’n ymgymryd ag astudiaeth o’r rhwydwaith swyddfeydd post a gwerth cymdeithasol swyddfeydd post. Mae’r astudiaeth i fod i gael ei chwblhau y gwanwyn hwn ac yr wyf yn sicr y bydd yr Aelodau am gael dadl ar yr astudiaeth ar ôl ei chyhoeddi.
Social exclusion is a great problem in rural and urban areas and that problem will be made worse by further post office closures. Twenty-four have closed in the last year. The Government’s proposals to transfer the payment of benefits from the post office and to pay benefits by automatic credit transfer through the banking system will cut post office revenue by 30 per cent on average. More rural and urban post offices will become economically unviable and will close, and there will be more job losses and more excluded people.
Mae allgáu cymdeithasol yn broblem fawr mewn ardaloedd gwledig a threfol a bydd y broblem honno yn waeth o ganlyniad i gau rhagor o swyddfeydd post. Caeodd 24 yn y flwyddyn ddiwethaf. Bydd cynigion y Llywodraeth i drosglwyddo talu budd-daliadau o swyddfeydd post ac i dalu budd-daliadau drwy drosglwyddo credyd awtomatig drwy’r system fancio yn torri 30 y cant oddi ar refeniw swyddfeydd post ar gyfartaledd. Bydd mwy o swyddfeydd post gwledig a threfol yn mynd yn economaidd anhyfyw ac yn cau, a bydd mwy o golledion swyddi a mwy o bobl wedi eu dieithrio.
There is already a great deal of poverty in rural areas. For example, Powys has the lowest weekly wage in Wales and, strangely, one of the highest council tax increases.
Ceir llawer iawn o dlodi mewn ardaloedd gwledig eisoes. Er enghraifft, gan Bowys y mae’r cyflog wythnosol isaf yng Nghymru ac, yn rhyfedd, un o’r codiadau mwyaf yn nhreth y cyngor.
Dafydd Elis-Thomas The Presiding Officer spoken in English p. 10
Dafydd Elis-Thomas Y Llywydd siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 10
Order. I would like a question. All we have heard so far is a speech.
Trefn. Hoffwn gael cwestiwn. Y cwbl a gawsom hyd yn hyn yw araith.
We should be safeguarding post offices to allow people the convenience of receiving benefit payments in their own locality. We should not force people to make longer car journeys—
Dylem ddiogelu swyddfeydd post fel y caiff pobl y cyfleuster o dderbyn budd-daliadau yn eu hardal eu hunain. Ni ddylem orfodi pobl i fynd ar deithiau hwy mewn ceir—
Dafydd Elis-Thomas The Presiding Officer spoken in English p. 10
Dafydd Elis-Thomas Y Llywydd siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 10
Order. I have asked you to ask a question. It must be asked now.
Trefn. Gofynnais ichi ofyn cwestiwn. Rhaid ei ofyn yn awr.
Very well. The local post office plays a vital role in the life of our communities. What action will the Government take—
O’r gorau. Mae’r swyddfa bost leol yn chwarae rhan hanfodol ym mywyd ein cymunedau. Pa gamau a gymer y Llywodraeth—
Rhodri is very lively today.
Mae Rhodri’n fywiog iawn heddiw.
Very lively indeed. At least he has some action in his bones.
Yn fywiog dros ben. Mae rhywfaint o fynd ynddo ef o leiaf.
Dafydd Elis-Thomas The Presiding Officer spoken in English p. 10
Dafydd Elis-Thomas Y Llywydd siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 10
Order.
Trefn.
What action will the Government take to ensure that the use of technology will help maintain viable post offices for future generations?
Pa gamau a gymer y Llywodraeth i sicrhau y bydd y defnydd o dechnoleg yn helpu i gynnal swyddfeydd post hyfyw ar gyfer cenedlaethau’r dyfodol?
Alun Michael The First Secretary spoken in English p. 10
Alun Michael Y Prif Ysgrifennydd siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 10
We must be careful. New technology and automatic transfer systems make it easier for many people to receive their finances because they do not have to travel to receive them. However, the effects that you referred to, Mick, on post offices that depend on that income, cause a problem. That is one reason why the Cabinet Office is undertaking the study and submitting the report to which I referred. It is a matter for us because it is a matter for our constituents, particularly in rural Wales, having convenient access to their finances.
Rhaid inni fod yn ofalus. Mae technoleg newydd a systemau trosglwyddo awtomatig yn ei gwneud yn haws i lawer o bobl dderbyn eu harian oherwydd nad ydynt yn gorfod teithio i’w dderbyn. Fodd bynnag, mae’r effeithiau y cyfeiriasoch atynt, Mick, ar swyddfeydd post sydd yn dibynnu ar yr incwm hwnnw, yn peri problem. Dyna un rheswm pam y mae Swyddfa’r Cabinet yn ymgymryd â’r astudiaeth ac yn cyflwyno’r adroddiad y cyfeiriais ato. Mae’n fater i ni oherwydd ei fod yn fater i’n hetholwyr, yn enwedig yng nghefn gwlad Cymru, yn cael mynediad cyfleus at eu harian.
That also applies to some urban areas. The point is well made and concerns us all. However, let us not prevent people from having quick, convenient access to the money that should be available to them in order to prop up the post office services. Let us look at the report and perhaps at other things that could be done to improve the viability of rural post offices and the services they provide. It is not directly a matter for us but I am certain that the Assembly will want to discuss and debate that report.
Mae hynny hefyd yn berthnasol i rai ardaloedd trefol. Gwnaethpwyd y pwynt yn dda ac mae o ddiddordeb i bob un ohonom. Fodd bynnag, na foed inni rwystro pobl rhag cael mynediad cyflym, cyfleus at yr arian a ddylai fod ar gael iddynt er mwyn cynnal breichiau gwasanaethau’r swyddfeydd post. Gadewch inni edrych ar yr adroddiad ac efallai ar bethau eraill y gellid eu gwneud i wella hyfywedd swyddfeydd post gwledig a’r gwasanaethau a ddarperir ganddynt. Nid yw’n fater i ni’n uniongyrchol ond yr wyf yn sicr y bydd y Cynulliad am gael trafodaeth a dadl ar yr adroddiad hwnnw.
I am sure that you are aware of the recent failure of the Post Office to attend the South East Wales Regional Committee to account for highly unpopular changes to postal addresses in areas such as Blaenavon in my constituency. These changes have created problems with the delivery of local mail and are seen by the local community as undermining its identity and heritage. Will you make representation to the Post Office to convey the concerns of Blaenavon and other communities affected by these changes?
Yr wyf yn sicr eich bod yn ymwybodol o fethiant diweddar Swyddfa’r Post i ddod i Bwyllgor Rhanbarthol De Ddwyrain Cymru i egluro’r newidiadau amhoblogaidd iawn mewn cyfeiriadau post mewn ardaloedd fel Blaenafon yn fy etholaeth i. Mae’r newidiadau hyn wedi creu problemau ynghylch dosbarthu post lleol ac fe’u gwelir gan y gymuned leol yn rhai sydd yn tanseilio ei hunaniaeth a’i threftadaeth. A fyddwch yn cyflwyno sylwadau i Swyddfa’r Post i gyfleu pryderon Blaenafon a chymunedau eraill y mae’r newidiadau hyn yn effeithio arnynt?
Alun Michael The First Secretary spoken in English p. 11
Alun Michael Y Prif Ysgrifennydd siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 11
I understand those concerns and that there would be consternation in a place like Blaenavon. It is a strong community which believes that its service is suffering as a result of these changes. The Assembly does not have responsibility for the Post Office. However, I will ask officials to see if we can bring influence to bear to resolve the situation. I will also draw your remarks to the attention of the Post Office.
Deallaf y pryderon hynny ac y byddai dryswch mewn lle fel Blaenafon. Mae’n gymuned gref sydd yn credu bod ei gwasanaeth yn dioddef o ganlyniad i’r newidiadau hyn. Nid oes gan y Cynulliad gyfrifoldeb dros Swyddfa’r Post. Fodd bynnag, gofynnaf i swyddogion ganfod a allwn ddylanwadu er mwyn datrys y sefyllfa. Byddaf hefyd yn dwyn eich sylwadau i sylw Swyddfa’r Post.
I return to the answer given by the First Secretary to Mick Bates. It is true that some people find it more convenient to have benefits paid into their bank accounts. However, that could be made possible by making it optional. The danger is that by taking away the option you are being hard on benefit recipients, many of whom do not have bank accounts. It is a particularly serious issue for some women who do not have an individual bank account and receive child benefit. The direct payment is important. It is also important for the future of post offices. Over 1,000 jobs are at risk in Wales as a result of this policy. However, most important is post offices’ importance to communities throughout rural Wales. As has been said, 24 post offices closed last year. It is true that there are closures every year but the process is accelerating and post offices are put at considerable risk by the Government policy on credit transfer. Will the First Secretary make representations on that to Tony Blair and his Labour colleagues at Westminster?
Dychwelaf at yr ateb a roddwyd gan y Prif Ysgrifennydd i Mick Bates. Mae’n wir bod rhai pobl yn ei chael yn fwy cyfleus i fudd-daliadau gael eu talu i’w cyfrifon banc. Fodd bynnag, gellid gwneud hynny’n bosibl drwy ei wneud yn ddewisol. Y perygl wrth ddileu’r dewis yw ichi fod yn llawdrwm ar dderbynwyr budd-daliadau, y mae llawer ohonynt heb gyfrifon banc. Mae’n fater arbennig o ddifrifol i rai benywod nad oes ganddynt gyfrif banc unigol sydd yn derbyn budd-dal plant. Mae’r taliad uniongyrchol yn bwysig. Mae hefyd yn bwysig i ddyfodol swyddfeydd post. Mae dros 1,000 o swyddi mewn perygl yng Nghymru o ganlyniad i’r polisi hwn. Fodd bynnag, yr hyn sydd bwysicaf yw pwysigrwydd swyddfeydd post i gymunedau ledled cefn gwlad Cymru. Fel y dywedwyd, caeodd 24 o swyddfeydd post y llynedd. Mae’n wir bod rhai’n cau bob blwyddyn ond mae’r broses yn cyflymu ac mae swyddfeydd post wedi eu rhoi mewn cryn berygl gan bolisi’r Llywodraeth ar drosglwyddo credyd. A yw’r Prif Ysgrifennydd yn fodlon cyflwyno sylwadau ynghylch hynny i Tony Blair a’i gydweithwyr Llafur yn San Steffan?
Alun Michael The First Secretary spoken in English p. 12
Alun Michael Y Prif Ysgrifennydd siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 12
As I have indicated we have made representations to emphasise the importance of rural post offices and the likely impact of this policy. It is a question of balance. It is partly because of concern for the impact of one policy on another that the report has been drawn up, supervised by the Cabinet Office. Again, Nick, this makes the case for us to plan to have a debate about that report as soon as it is available to us.
Fel y nodais cyflwynasom sylwadau i bwysleisio pwysigrwydd swyddfeydd post gwledig ac effaith debygol y polisi hwn. Mae’n gwestiwn o gydbwysedd. Mae’n rhannol oherwydd pryder ynghylch effaith un polisi ar un arall fod yr adroddiad wedi ei lunio, dan oruchwyliaeth Swyddfa’r Cabinet. Unwaith eto, Nick, mae hyn yn ddadl dros y bwriad i gael trafodaeth ar yr adroddiad hwnnw cyn gynted ag y bydd ar gael i ni.
The decision, for rural post offices, almost cannot be explained. I am sure, as I look at a letter from the Post Office indicating that another post office is closing, in Devil’s Bridge, Ceredigion, that the people of Ceredigion will make their choice on 3 February.
Mae’r penderfyniad, ar gyfer swyddfeydd post gwledig, yn un na ellir ei egluro bron. Yr wyf yn sicr, a minnau’n edrych ar lythyr oddi wrth Swyddfa’r Post yn nodi y bydd swyddfa bost arall yn cau, ym Mhontarfynach, Ceredigion, y bydd pobl Ceredigion yn gwneud eu dewis ar 3 Chwefror.
Dafydd Elis-Thomas The Presiding Officer spoken in English p. 12
Dafydd Elis-Thomas Y Llywydd siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 12
Order. There is no by-election taking place for this Assembly. I want to make it clear that I will take a strong line on any references to any other elections for any other elected body in the United Kingdom during the next few weeks.
Trefn. Nid oes unrhyw is-etholiad yn digwydd ar gyfer y Cynulliad hwn. Yr wyf am roi ar ddeall y byddaf yn sefyll yn gadarn ynghylch unrhyw gyfeiriadau at unrhyw etholiadau eraill ar gyfer unrhyw gorff etholedig arall yn y Deyrnas Unedig yn ystod yr wythnosau nesaf.
Sorry. I was just following the precedent that was set before the European elections. I want to make representation for the semi-urban and town post offices because they also serve our local communities. There are housing estates with one or two shops, one of which is a post office. Will the First Secretary make representations on the highest level about choice so that there is not a default taking away of the payments—moving child benefit from weekly to monthly if you do not act—but so that a choice is available. That should apply to people on disability benefits and on pensions. I also ask the First Secretary to join me in signing a petition to save our post offices. It is a petition being circulated in Islwyn post offices and is spreading widely.
Mae’n ddrwg gennyf. Nid oeddwn ond yn dilyn cynsail a osodwyd cyn yr etholiadau Ewropeaidd. Yr wyf am gyflwyno sylw o blaid swyddfeydd post trefol a lled-drefol oherwydd maent hwythau’n gwasanaethu ein cymunedau lleol. Ceir stadau tai ag un neu ddwy o siopau, ac un ohonynt yn swyddfa bost. A yw’r Prif Ysgrifennydd yn fodlon cyflwyno sylwadau ar y lefel uchaf ynghylch dewis fel nad eir â’r taliadau ymaith drwy ddiffyg—newid budd-daliadau o fod yn wythnosol i fod yn fisol os na weithredwch—ond fel bod dewis ar gael. Dylai hynny fod yn berthnasol i rai sydd yn derbyn budd-daliadau anabledd a phensiynau. Gofynnaf hefyd i’r Prif Ysgrifennydd ymuno â mi drwy arwyddo deiseb i achub ein swyddfeydd post. Deiseb a gylchredir yn swyddfeydd post Islwyn yw hon ac mae’n ymledu’n eang.
Alun Michael The First Secretary spoken in English p. 13
Alun Michael Y Prif Ysgrifennydd siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 13
I said earlier that there can be problems in urban areas as well as in rural areas. I have experience of that in parts of my constituency. It is a matter of general concern. That is why I met Dr Neville Bain, Chair of the United Kingdom Post Office Board and Lewis Evans, Chair of the Post Office Board Wales, in September, and presented to them the importance of taking the wider economic and social significance of the local post office into account when making their decisions. I have made representations on that matter personally.
Dywedais yn gynharach y gellir cael problemau mewn ardaloedd trefol yn ogystal ag ardaloedd gwledig. Mae gennyf brofiad o hynny mewn rhannau o’m hetholaeth i. Mae’n fater o bryder cyffredinol. Dyna pam y cyfarfûm â Dr Neville Bain, Cadeirydd Bwrdd Swyddfa’r Post y Deyrnas Unedig a Lewis Evans, Cadeirydd Bwrdd Swyddfa’r Post Cymru, ym Medi, a chyfleu iddynt mor bwysig yw rhoi ystyriaeth i bwysigrwydd economaidd a chymdeithasol ehangach y swyddfa bost leol wrth wneud penderfyniadau. Cyflwynais sylwadau ar y mater hwnnw’n bersonol.
Rhan y Cynulliad yng Nghyngor yr Ynysoedd
The Assembly’s Role in the Council of the Isles
Pa ran y mae’r Prif Ysgrifennydd yn disgwyl y bydd y Cynulliad yn ei chwarae yng Nghyngor yr Ynysoedd? (OAQ2945)
What role does the First Secretary expect the Assembly to play in the Council of the Isles? (OAQ2945)
Alun Michael Y Prif Ysgrifennydd siaradwyd yn Gymraeg ac yn Saesneg t. 13
Alun Michael The First Secretary spoken in Welsh and English p. 13
Bydd yn rhaid i’r Cynulliad chwarae rhan gref. Gwneuthum hynny’n glir yng nghyfarfod cyntaf Cyngor yr Ynysoedd yn Rhagfyr 1999. Mae Cyngor Prydain-Iwerddon, i ddefnyddio’i deitl swyddogol, yn gyfle mawr inni gydweithio â phobl eraill ar bynciau a ystyrir gan bawb ohonom yn bynciau llosg. Byddwn yn cydweithio â’r Alban yn arbennig, cyn i’r Cyngor gyfarfod yn yr haf. Yr wyf hefyd wedi gofyn i’r Cyngor gynnal cyfarfod yng Nghymru.
in Welsh The Assembly will have to play a strong role. I made that clear in the first meeting of the Council of the Isles in December 1999. The British-Irish Council, to use its official title, is a great opportunity for us to co-operate with others on issues that all of us consider to be burning issues. We will be working with Scotland especially, before the Council meets in the summer. I have also asked the Council to hold a meeting in Wales.
I will make a statement on the work of the British-Irish Council but, in view of the pressure on today’s business, I have agreed to defer the statement. A report on the meeting will be given, possibly tomorrow.
yn Saesneg Byddaf yn rhoi datganiad ar waith Cyngor Prydain-Iwerddon ond, yng ngolwg y pwysau ar fusnes heddiw, cytunais i ohirio’r datganiad. Rhoddir adroddiad ar y cyfarfod, yfory o bosibl.
Gwerthu Canolfan Lôn Abaty, Bangor
Sale of Abbey Road Centre, Bangor
Pa drafodaethau a gafodd y Prif Ysgrifennydd ynglŷn â’r cynllun i werthu Canolfan Lôn Abaty ym Mangor, a’r effaith ar y sector gwirfoddol yn yr ardal os gwerthir y ganolfan? (OAQ2952)
What discussions has the First Secretary had regarding the scheme to sell the Abbey Road Centre in Bangor, and the effect of selling the centre on the voluntary sector in the area? (OAQ2952)
Alun Michael Y Prif Ysgrifennydd siaradwyd yn Gymraeg t. 14
Alun Michael The First Secretary spoken in Welsh p. 14
Gwn fod Canolfan Lôn Abaty yn chwarae rhan werthfawr o safbwynt darparu canolfan ar gyfer cyrff gwirfoddol ym Mangor. Mae yna dri adeilad, un yn eiddo i Gyngor Gwynedd a dau yn eiddo i’r awdurdod iechyd. Mae’r brydles ar y ddau adeilad hyn yn dod i ben yn Ebrill. Yn ei hanfod, mater lleol ydyw ond mae ein swyddogion yn rhan o’r trafodaethau sydd yn mynd rhagddynt i weld beth y gellir ei wneud.
I know that the Abbey Road Centre plays a valuable role in providing a centre for voluntary organisations in Bangor. There are three buildings, of which one is owned by Gwynedd Council and two by the health authority. The lease on these two buildings runs out in April. This is essentially a local matter but our officials are involved in ongoing discussions to see what can be done to help.
As you are aware, Alun, the building is occupied by several mental health organisations. They provide a central support service for the organisations within the centre. Although you say that it is a local matter, the problem has arisen because of the direction by the Welsh Office, and now the Assembly, that the health authority should dispose of properties that it does not use. The property is owned by the health authority but it is not able to transfer it at the moment. The service provided in the centre is valuable, as you said, and it is also valued by general practitioners as they refer their patients to the centre. The centre co-ordinator wrote to the Welsh Office in February and 11 months later she is waiting for a written response.
Fel y gwyddoch, Alun, defnyddir yr adeilad gan nifer o gyrff iechyd meddwl. Darparant wasanaeth cefnogaeth ganolog i’r cyrff sydd yn y ganolfan. Er eich bod yn dweud ei fod yn fater lleol, cododd y broblem oherwydd y cyfarwyddyd gan y Swyddfa Gymreig, a’r Cynulliad yn awr, y dylai’r awdurdod iechyd werthu adeiladau nad yw’n eu defnyddio. Yr awdurdod iechyd yw perchennog yr adeilad ond ni all ei drosglwyddo ar hyn o bryd. Mae’r gwasanaeth a ddarperir yn y ganolfan yn werthfawr, fel y dywedsoch, ac fe’i gwerthfawrogir hefyd gan ymarferwyr cyffredinol gan eu bod yn cyfeirio eu cleifion i’r ganolfan. Ysgrifennodd cydlynydd y ganolfan at y Swyddfa Gymreig yn Chwefror ac 11 mis yn ddiweddarach mae hi’n disgwyl ymateb ysgrifenedig.
Dafydd Elis-Thomas Y Llywydd siaradwyd yn Gymraeg t. 15
Dafydd Elis-Thomas The Presiding Officer spoken in Welsh p. 15
Hoffwn gael cwestiwn os gwelwch yn dda, Christine.
I would like to have a question please, Christine.
The solution of the problem is in the Assembly’s hands because the building will now be sold. What assurances can you give to the groups based in Abbey Road Centre that they, and the people that they support, will still have a centre in two months’ time?
Mae’r ateb i’r broblem yn nwylo’r Cynulliad oherwydd bydd yr adeilad yn awr yn cael ei werthu. Pa sicrwydd y gallwch ei roi i’r grwpiau sydd wedi eu lleoli yng Nghanolfan Lôn Abaty y byddant hwy, a’r rhai a gefnogir ganddynt, yn dal i fod â chanolfan ymhen dau fis?
Alun Michael The First Secretary spoken in English p. 15
Alun Michael Y Prif Ysgrifennydd siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 15
I am happy to deal with some of the detail outside the question and answer session if Christine so wishes. I repeat that this is basically a local issue. We have emphasised the importance of working with the voluntary sector. I wrote to every health authority and NHS trust at the beginning of last year asking them to reach an agreement with the voluntary sector in their areas in respect of its specific services, because of the importance of voluntary organisations in health, particularly in support services. The support of people with mental health problems is a good example. I understand that the North Wales Health Authority has not yet finalised its partnership agreement—its compact—and that it is in draft form. That should deal with these issues. However, I am happy to look at any correspondence. None of those details have been raised with me previously, Christine. If you supply me with the facts I am prepared to look at them and respond accordingly.
Byddaf yn falch o ymdrin â rhai o’r manylion y tu allan i’r sesiwn holi ac ateb os yw Christine yn dymuno. Dywedaf eto fod hyn yn fater lleol yn y bôn. Pwysleisiasom bwysigrwydd gweithio gyda’r sector gwirfoddol. Ysgrifennais at bob awdurdod iechyd ac ymddiriedolaeth NHS ddechrau’r flwyddyn ddiwethaf gan ofyn iddynt ddod i gytundeb â’r sector gwirfoddol yn eu hardaloedd mewn perthynas â’i wasanaethau penodol, oherwydd pwysigrwydd mudiadau gwirfoddol mewn iechyd, yn enwedig mewn gwasanaethau cefnogaeth. Mae’r gefnogaeth i rai â phroblemau iechyd meddwl yn enghraifft dda. Deallaf nad yw Awdurdod Iechyd Gogledd Cymru wedi cwblhau ei gytundeb partneriaeth—ei gompact—eto a’i fod ar ffurf ddrafft. Dylai hwnnw ymdrin â’r materion hyn. Fodd bynnag, byddaf yn falch o edrych ar unrhyw ohebiaeth. Nid oes yr un o’r manylion hynny wedi eu codi gyda mi o’r blaen, Christine. Os rhowch y ffeithiau i mi yr wyf yn barod i edrych arnynt ac ymateb yn unol â hynny.
Diolchaf i Christine am godi’r mater hwn o bryder. Derbyniaf ddiffuantrwydd y Prif Ysgrifennydd wrth iddo gyfeirio at bwysigrwydd y ganolfan. Yr ydym oll yn deall hynny. Yr hyn sydd yn drist yw bod gwerthu’r ganolfan yn dangos diffyg cydweithio rhwng y gwahanol sectorau. Yr wyf wedi gwrando arnoch, Brif Ysgrifennydd, a gwn eich bod yn ddiffuant wrth ddweud eich bod eisiau partneriaeth rhwng y gwahanol sectorau. Nid yw hynny’n digwydd cyn belled ag y mae’r ganolfan hon yn y cwestiwn. Mae’n rhaid i rywun ymyrryd, a gofynnaf i chi, fel Prif Ysgrifennydd, wneud hynny yn awr. Mae’r mater hwn yn ymwneud â’r Cynulliad gan ei fod yn ymwneud ag egwyddorion y Cynulliad.
I thank Christine for raising this matter of concern. I accept the First Secretary’s sincerity in referring to the importance of the centre. We all understand that. What is sad is that the selling of the centre shows a lack of co-operation between the various sectors. I have listened to you, First Secretary, and I know that you are sincere when you say that you want a partnership between the various sectors. That is not happening as far as this centre is concerned. Someone has to intervene, and I am asking you, as First Secretary, to do so now. This matter involves the Assembly as it involves the Assembly’s principles.
Nid yw’r adrannau yn gwrando ar ei gilydd ac nid oes neb yn fodlon gwneud penderfyniad. Nid ymhelaethaf, er bod gennyf fwy na digon i’w ddweud am y ganolfan hon. Yr wyf wedi ysgrifennu at Jane Hutt ond nid wyf wedi derbyn cydnabyddiaeth nac ymateb i’m llythyr. Apeliaf arnoch i edrych ar y mater holl bwysig hwn. Mae’r ganolfan dan fygythiad ac nid oes neb yn gwybod beth fydd yn digwydd.
The departments are not listening to each other and no one is willing to make a decision. I will not elaborate, even though I have more than enough to say about this centre. I have written to Jane Hutt but I have received neither an acknowledgement nor a response to my letter. I ask you to look into this crucial matter. The centre is under threat and no one knows what will happen.
Alun Michael Y Prif Ysgrifennydd siaradwyd yn Gymraeg t. 16
Alun Michael The First Secretary spoken in Welsh p. 16
Yr wyf yn barod i edrych ar y broblem hon gyda Jane a chwilio am ffordd ymlaen. Bu diffyg cydweithio rhwng y sectorau cyhoeddus a gwirfoddol dros y blynyddoedd. Yr ydym yn ceisio creu awyrgylch newydd ac mae hyn yn dechrau gweithio mewn rhai rhannau o Gymru. Ymwelais â Chyngor Bwrdeistref Sirol Castell-nedd Port Talbot cyn y Nadolig a gwelais un o’r compactau cyntaf yn cael ei roi ar waith. Cefais air â phobl yn y sector gwirfoddol ynglŷn â’r modd yr oedd hynny’n datblygu ac yn gweithio. Bydd hyn yn cymryd amser, ond os oes problem yr wyf yn barod i edrych a oes rhywbeth y gallai’r Cynulliad ei wneud. Fodd bynnag, rhaid pwysleisio’r ffaith y dylai’r materion hyn gael eu setlo yn lleol.
I am willing to look at this problem with Jane and to search for a way forward. There has been a lack of co-operation between the public and voluntary sectors over the years. We are trying to create a new ethos and this is starting to work in some parts of Wales. I visited Neath Port Talbot County Borough Council before Christmas and saw one of the first compacts being implemented. I had a word with people in the voluntary sector about how that was developing and working. This will take time, but if there is a problem I am willing to look at whether there is anything that the Assembly could do. However, it must be emphasised that these matters should be settled locally.
Map Cymorth Rhanbarthol Dewisol Cymru
Wales’s Regional Selective Assistance Map
Will the First Secretary make a statement on his latest negotiations with the Secretary of State for Wales and the Department of Trade and Industry on the regional selective assistance map for Wales (OAQ2956)?
A fydd y Prif Ysgrifennydd gystal â gwneud datganiad ar ei drafodaethau diweddaraf ag Ysgrifennydd Gwladol Cymru a’r Adran Masnach a Diwydiant ar fap cymorth rhanbarthol dewisol Cymru (OAQ2956)?
Alun Michael The First Secretary spoken in English p. 16
Alun Michael Y Prif Ysgrifennydd siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 16
As I explained in December, discussions are continuing with the European Commission and no assisted area map is in place yet. We are working with the Department of Trade and Industry and the Secretary of State for Wales and pressing to get a new map into place as soon as possible.
Fel yr eglurais yn Rhagfyr, mae trafodaethau’n mynd rhagddynt â’r Comisiwn Ewropeaidd ac ni sefydlwyd map rhanbarthau cymorth eto. Yr ydym yn gweithio gyda’r Adran Masnach a Diwydiant ac Ysgrifennydd Gwladol Cymru ac yn pwyso i gael map newydd yn ei le cyn gynted ag y bo modd.
Is this not an example of the inept way in which this administration handles its negotiations with the European Union? The regional selective assistance map has been rejected, as has the single programming document. Is this what you call being at the heart of Europe? Why did the Secretary for Economic Development make a statement about regional selective assistance three days into the Assembly’s Christmas recess, leaving the festivities to try to dampen our enthusiasm for getting to the root of the cause, rather than making a statement to the Chamber and allowing us to question him at the time? Our enthusiasm has not been dampened. Will the First Secretary make an estimate of how many jobs will have been lost because we do not have the right to award regional selective assistance to companies coming to and investing in Wales?
Onid yw hyn yn enghraifft o’r modd di-glem y mae’r weinyddiaeth hon yn ymdrin â’i thrafodaethau â’r Undeb Ewropeaidd? Gwrthodwyd y map cymorth rhanbarthol dewisol, yn yr un modd â’r ddogfen raglennu sengl. Ai hyn yw bod wrth graidd Ewrop yn eich barn chi? Pam y rhoddodd yr Ysgrifennydd Datblygu Economaidd ddatganiad am gymorth rhanbarthol dewisol dridiau ar ôl dechrau toriad y Cynulliad dros y Nadolig, gan adael y dathliadau er mwyn ceisio lladd ein brwdfrydedd dros fynd at wraidd yr achos, yn hytrach na gwneud datganiad yn y Siambr a gadael inni ei holi ar y pryd? Ni laddwyd ein brwdfrydedd. A fydd y Prif Ysgrifennydd gystal ag amcangyfrif sawl swydd fydd wedi ei cholli oherwydd nad oes gennym yr hawl i ddyfarnu cymorth rhanbarthol dewisol i gwmnïau sydd yn dod i ac yn buddsoddi yng Nghymru?
Alun Michael The First Secretary spoken in English p. 17
Alun Michael Y Prif Ysgrifennydd siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 17
That was a lot of rhetoric, Alun. It would be best if you were to look at the actual situation and understand it accurately. There is no failure on the part of either the Assembly or this Government. Most member states are in exactly the same situation as us, awaiting and wanting a new map to be in place. It is frustrating for us. You ask for an estimate of job losses. We are trying to ensure that we do not lose any jobs. As a temporary measure, we are continuing to accept applications from companies with projects located within the proposed assisted areas map. We are going ahead with normal appraisal of those projects, although any offers will be conditional on being within the map as it will be developed. We want this settled as quickly as possible. I underline that there is no failure on our part. There were changes in the Commission last year. Those changes and other factors seem to have led to an extended timescale for some of these decisions. We are in exactly the same situation as most of the member states of the European Union.
Rhethreg oedd hynny i gyd, Alun. Byddai’n well pe baech yn edrych ar y wir sefyllfa ac yn ei deall yn gywir. Nid oes methiant ar ran y Cynulliad na’r Llywodraeth hon. Mae’r rhan fwyaf o’r aelod wladwriaethau yn yr union un sefyllfa â ni, yn aros ac yn dymuno cael map newydd i’w le. Mae’n peri rhwystredigaeth i ni. Gofynnwch am amcangyfrif o golledion swyddi. Yr ydym yn ceisio sicrhau na chollwn unrhyw swyddi. Fel mesur dros dro, yr ydym yn parhau i dderbyn ceisiadau oddi wrth gwmnïau a chanddynt brosiectau oddi mewn i’r map rhanbarthau cymorth arfaethedig. Yr ydym yn mynd ymlaen â’r arfarnu arferol ar y prosiectau hynny, er y bydd unrhyw gynigion yn amodol ar fod oddi mewn i’r map wrth iddo gael ei ddatblygu. Yr ydym am weld setlo hyn cyn gynted ag y bo modd. Pwysleisiaf nad oes methiant ar ein rhan ni. Yr oedd newidiadau yn y Comisiwn y llynedd. Ymddengys fod y newidiadau hynny a ffactorau eraill wedi arwain at ymestyn yr amserlen ar gyfer rhai o’r penderfyniadau hyn. Yr ydym yn yr union un sefyllfa â’r rhan fwyaf o aelod wladwriaethau’r Undeb Ewropeaidd.
Are you prepared to join me in deploring the way in which the Government announced the rejection of the RSA map? It was announced in a written answer to a backbencher question, posted at the last possible moment before the Westminster Parliament rose for the Christmas recess. Do you also agree that if the statement had been made, quite properly, in an oral form at the first opportunity, it would have allowed the Welsh Development Agency extra time to salvage as much inward investment as possible from a serious set-back?
A ydych yn barod i ymuno â mi wrth resynu at y modd y cyhoeddodd y Llywodraeth wrthodiad y map cymorth rhanbarthol dewisol? Fe’i cyhoeddwyd mewn ateb ysgrifenedig i gwestiwn gan feinciwr cefn, a gyhoeddwyd ar yr eiliad olaf bosibl cyn i Senedd San Steffan godi ar gyfer toriad y Nadolig. A gytunwch hefyd, pe bai’r datganiad wedi ei wneud, yn gwbl briodol, ar ffurf lafar ar y cyfle cyntaf, y byddai hynny wedi caniatáu mwy o amser i Awdurdod Datblygu Cymru achub cymaint o fewnfuddsoddi â phosibl o anffawd ddifrifol?
Alun Michael The First Secretary spoken in English p. 18
Alun Michael Y Prif Ysgrifennydd siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 18
I do not totally understand your question. As I understand it, there are no problems with our element of the map. However, these are ongoing negotiations and, as I have just indicated, the UK is in the same situation as most other member states. What is happening—and it is understandable—is that processes that have perhaps not run into difficulties previously, or that have occurred between Government departments and Europe, are now out in the open. That is part of the Assembly’s function. One of its benefits is that we have the opportunity of discussing them. However, misrepresenting difficulties as failure is not helpful.
Nid wyf yn llwyr ddeall eich cwestiwn. Fel y’i deallaf, nid oes unrhyw broblemau ynghylch ein helfen ni o’r map. Fodd bynnag, trafodaethau cyfredol yw’r rhain ac, fel yr wyf newydd ei nodi, mae’r DU yn yr un sefyllfa â’r rhan fwyaf o’r aelod wladwriaethau eraill. Yr hyn sydd yn digwydd—ac mae’n ddealladwy—yw bod prosesau sydd heb fynd i drafferthion o’r blaen efallai, neu sydd wedi digwydd rhwng adrannau’r Llywodraeth ac Ewrop, bellach yn agored. Mae hynny’n rhan o swyddogaeth y Cynulliad. Un o’r manteision o hynny yw bod gennym gyfle i’w trafod. Fodd bynnag, nid yw o gymorth camliwio anawsterau a’u galw’n fethiant.
Given that Wales is now at an economic disadvantage compared to Ireland on the important issue of company investment in this country, and given my understanding that the differences between other European countries and the European Commission are small-scale, whereas the differences between the United Kingdom and the Commission are substantial and mainly about homogeneity of areas—in other words the packing of different types of areas together—are we in for a long negotiation that will result in increased problems for industry coming to Wales, further lack of investment in companies and the map not being in place? Does it also mean that, because we cannot get the RSA map in place, discussions about the Objective 2 map are also being delayed?
O dderbyn bod Cymru bellach dan anfantais economaidd o’i chymharu ag Iwerddon ar y mater pwysig o fuddsoddi gan gwmnïau yn y wlad hon, ac yng ngolwg y ddealltwriaeth sydd gennyf bod y gwahaniaethau barn rhwng gwledydd Ewropeaidd eraill a’r Comisiwn Ewropeaidd yn rhai bychain, tra bo’r gwahaniaethau barn rhwng y Deyrnas Unedig a’r Comisiwn yn sylweddol ac yn ymwneud yn bennaf ag unrhywiaeth rhanbarthau—mewn geiriau eraill, rhoi gwahanol fathau o ranbarthau gyda’i gilydd—a ydym yn wynebu trafodaeth hir fydd yn arwain at broblemau cynyddol i ddiwydiannau sydd yn dod i Gymru, diffyg buddsoddi pellach mewn cwmnïau a’r map heb gael ei sefydlu? A yw hefyd yn golygu, am na allwn gael y map cymorth rhanbarthol dewisol i’w le, fod trafodaethau am y map Amcan 2 yn cael eu gohirio hefyd?
Alun Michael The First Secretary spoken in English p. 18
Alun Michael Y Prif Ysgrifennydd siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 18
I believe that there is a connection between the two, but I am not certain of the relationship. I confirm that we are committed to doing everything possible to get early approval of a new regional aid map. I have discussed this matter with the Secretary of State for Wales and we are discussing it with the Department of Trade and Industry. As I indicated, we have established temporary measures to ensure that nobody has an application that is not being dealt with, either because it cannot be submitted or because it sits in the in-tray on submission. I am hopeful that we will succeed in pressing for an early resolution of this serious problem. However, in the meantime, we are trying to get on with the job to ensure that we are not disadvantaged.
Credaf fod cysylltiad rhwng y ddau, ond nid wyf yn sicr o’r berthynas. Cadarnhaf ein bod wedi ymrwymo i wneud popeth sydd yn bosibl i gael cymeradwyaeth fuan i fap cymorth rhanbarthol newydd. Trafodais y mater hwn ag Ysgrifennydd Gwladol Cymru ac yr ydym yn ei drafod â’r Adran Masnach a Diwydiant. Fel y nodais, sefydlasom fesurau dros dro i sicrhau nad oes gan neb gais nad yw’n derbyn sylw, un ai am na ellir ei gyflwyno neu am ei fod yn sefyll yn y fasged i mewn ar ôl ei gyflwyno. Yr wyf yn hyderus y llwyddwn wrth bwyso am ateb buan i’r broblem ddifrifol hon. Fodd bynnag, yn y cyfamser, yr ydym yn ceisio mynd ymlaen â’r gwaith er mwyn sicrhau na fyddwn dan anfantais.
Cwestiwn Brys
Urgent Question
Y Ddogfen Raglennu Sengl
The Single Programming Document
Dafydd Elis-Thomas The Presiding Officer spoken in English p. 19
Dafydd Elis-Thomas Y Llywydd siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 19
I have decided to allow a question of urgent public importance under Standing Order No. 6.31.
Penderfynais ganiatáu cwestiwn o bwys cyhoeddus brys o dan Reol Sefydlog Rhif 6.31.
Will the Secretary for Economic Development make a statement on the European Commission’s response to the Assembly’s single programming document for Objective 1? (EAQ3185)
A wnaiff yr Ysgrifennydd Datblygu Economaidd ddatganiad ar ymateb y Comisiwn Ewropeaidd i ddogfen raglennu sengl y Cynulliad ar gyfer Amcan 1? (EAQ3185)
Rhodri Morgan The Secretary for Economic Development spoken in English p. 19
Rhodri Morgan Yr Ysgrifennydd Datblygu Economaidd siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 19
We have always made it clear that a lengthy and substantial round of discussions would be required before the single programming document could be finalised in agreement with the European Commission. We always said that it would be about five months from the date of submission of the document, which was 3 November. The draft document that we sent on 3 November has passed one hurdle, having been accepted by Brussels as fully technically compliant with the regulations. The process of five months of negotiations is not special to the Welsh Objective 1 area. The Commission follows the same approach in its exchanges with all member states on all structural fund programmes.
Rhoesom ar ddeall erioed y byddai angen rownd hir a sylweddol o drafodaethau cyn y gellid cwblhau’r ddogfen raglennu sengl mewn cytundeb â’r Comisiwn Ewropeaidd. Dywedasom erioed y byddai hynny oddeutu pum mis oddi ar ddyddiad cyflwyno’r ddogfen, sef 3 Tachwedd. Mae’r ddogfen ddrafft a anfonasom ar 3 Tachwedd wedi mynd heibio i un rhwystr, wedi iddi gael ei derbyn gan Frwsel fel un sydd yn llwyr gydymffurfio’n dechnegol â’r rheoliadau. Nid yw’r broses o bum mis o drafodaethau’n arbennig i ranbarth Amcan 1 Cymru. Mae’r Comisiwn yn dilyn yr un dull gweithredu yn ei ymwneud â’r holl aelod wladwriaethau ynghylch holl raglenni’r cronfeydd strwythurol.
The latest indications are that the Commission does not expect any programme approvals to be available before the end of March. There has never been a chance of short-circuiting or accelerating that process. The draft programme that the Assembly submitted to Brussels has a seven-year horizon. It was a 400-page document, and will apply across two thirds of Wales’s population.
Yr arwyddion diweddaraf yw nad yw’r Comisiwn yn disgwyl y bydd unrhyw gymeradwyaethau i raglenni ar gael cyn diwedd Mawrth. Ni fu erioed gyfle i bwtgylchedu neu gyflymu’r broses honno. Mae i’r rhaglen ddrafft a gyflwynodd y Cynulliad i Frwsel derfyn amser o saith mlynedd. Yr oedd yn ddogfen o 400 tudalen, a bydd yn berthnasol i ddwy ran o dair o boblogaeth Cymru.
We received the preliminary informal comments from the European Commission just before Christmas—I think on 19 December. There is nothing secret or alarming about the document, which we understand was circulated yesterday by the Federation of Small Businesses. The Federation had had it for about a month, but decided to circulate it yesterday. It is the preliminary response to the SPD. It sets out their agenda for the detailed negotiations which will take place over the remaining months of the five-month period. We anticipate that the official response will arrive by the end of January or early February and I will make that available to the economic development spokespersons for the parties, as I did this morning. Some cynics may think that I only circulated the copy of the document to Mike German, Phil Williams and Alun Cairns. I saw it on Wednesday night and discussed it with my officials on Friday morning and we decided to circulate it then. The covering letter was typed on Monday and was circulated this morning. It is an odd coincidence. It is almost too good to be true, but it is true and I hope that Members of the Assembly will accept that.
Derbyniasom y sylwadau anffurfiol rhagarweiniol oddi wrth y Comisiwn Ewropeaidd ychydig cyn y Nadolig—ar 19 Rhagfyr yr wyf yn credu. Nid oes dim sydd yn gyfrinachol neu’n frawychus ynghylch y ddogfen, y deallwn ei bod wedi ei cylchredeg ddoe gan Ffederasiwn y Busnesau Bychain. Yr oedd gan y Ffederasiwn ers mis, ond penderfynodd ei chylchredeg ddoe. Hwn yw’r ymateb rhagarweiniol i’r ddogfen rhaglennu sengl. Mae’n nodi eu hagenda ar gyfer y trafodaethau manwl fydd yn digwydd dros y misoedd sydd yn weddill o’r cyfnod o bum mis. Rhagwelwn y bydd yr ymateb swyddogol yn cyrraedd erbyn diwedd Ionawr neu’n gynnar yn Chwefror a byddaf yn sicrhau ei fod ar gael i lefaryddion datblygu economaidd y pleidiau, fel y gwneuthum y bore yma. Efallai y bydd rhai sinigiaid yn credu nad oeddwn ond wedi cylchredeg y copi o’r ddogfen i Mike German, Phil Williams ac Alun Cairns. Fe’i gwelais nos Fercher a’i thrafod â’m swyddogion fore Gwener a phenderfynasom ei chylchredeg bryd hynny. Teipiwyd y llythyr eglurhaol ddydd Llun ac fe’i cylchredwyd y bore yma. Mae’n gyd-ddigwyddiad rhyfedd. Mae bron yn rhy dda i fod yn wir, ond mae’n wir a gobeithiaf y bydd Aelodau’r Cynulliad yn derbyn hynny.
Rhodri will remember that on three occasions, Plaid Cymru members of the Economic Development Committee pressed strongly for separate targets for the different areas within the Objective 1 region so that the appropriate number of jobs, the appropriate share of funding and the appropriate policies could be directed separately to the rural areas of west Wales and the Valleys. The Executive rejected our proposal but our concern is now being reinforced by one of the European Commission’s main criticisms of the SPD. Will you now accept that the Plaid Cymru proposals will ensure that, through Objective 1, prosperity is spread to every part of Wales, and will you ensure that we have plenty of time to discuss a revision of the SPD?
Bydd Rhodri’n cofio bod aelodau Plaid Cymru o’r Pwyllgor Datblygu Economaidd wedi pwyso’n gryf ar dri achlysur am dargedau ar wahân i’r gwahanol ardaloedd oddi mewn i’r rhanbarth Amcan 1 fel y gellid cyfeirio’r nifer briodol o swyddi, y gyfran briodol o arian a’r polisïau priodol ar wahân i ardaloedd gwledig gorllewin Cymru a’r Cymoedd. Gwrthododd y Weithrediaeth ein hawgrym ond mae’r pryder sydd gennym yn cael ei atgyfnerthu bellach gan un o brif feirniadaethau y Comisiwn Ewropeaidd o’r ddogfen rhaglennu sengl. A ydych bellach yn barod i dderbyn cynigion Plaid Cymru a fydd yn sicrhau, drwy Amcan 1, y lledaenir ffyniant i bob rhan o Gymru, ac a fyddwch cystal â sicrhau y cawn ddigon o amser i drafod adolygiad o’r ddogfen rhaglennu sengl?
There is plenty of time for that revision. I am grateful to Phil for reminding us of the discussion that we had in the Economic Development Committee on this point. It is an important point because it is clear that Cornwall, South Yorkshire and Merseyside, for example, are more homogenous and compact than west Wales and the Valleys. However, Phil will recall that when I put it to him that we wanted to be certain about the coherence of the area on any standard of deprivation, that west Wales and the Valleys were coherent as a deprived area. They may have different kinds of deprivation—urban and rural—but he will recall that not only did I put that to him forcibly but I received strong support from Ron Davies as the original author of the statistical case for including west Wales and the Valleys as one single deprived area.
Mae digon o amser ar gyfer yr adolygiad hwnnw. Yr wyf yn ddiolchgar i Phil am ein hatgoffa o’r drafodaeth a gawsom yn y Pwyllgor Datblygu Economaidd ar y pwynt hwn. Mae’n bwynt pwysig oherwydd mae’n amlwg bod Cernyw, De Swydd Efrog a Glannau Mersi, er enghraifft, yn fwy unrhyw a chryno na gorllewin Cymru a’r Cymoedd. Fodd bynnag, bydd Phil yn cofio pan awgrymais iddo ein bod am fod yn sicr ynghylch cydlyniad yr ardal yn ôl unrhyw safon amddifadedd, fod gorllewin Cymru a’r Cymoedd yn gydlynol fel ardal o amddifadedd. Efallai fod iddynt wahanol fathau o amddifadedd—trefol a gwledig—ond bydd yn cofio nid yn unig imi awgrymu hynny’n gryf iddo ond imi hefyd dderbyn cefnogaeth gryf oddi wrth Ron Davies fel awdur gwreiddiol yr achos ystadegol dros gynnwys gorllewin Cymru a’r Cymoedd fel un ardal o amddifadedd.
After some negotiation with the European Commission, it is clear that it would like us to treat rural areas separately from urban areas, and perhaps take the industrial Valleys separately from the Greater Swansea area. We anticipated that that might emerge during the five months of negotiation. When you go into negotiation, you do not expect the other side to roll over and agree to everything initially. You expect to make some changes. Without giving a commitment today, it is the kind of issue that we are willing to consider in negotiation with the Commission officials. I will report back further to the Economic Development Committee or to the Assembly, if that is thought necessary, later in this long period of negotiations.
Ar ôl cryn drafod â’r Comisiwn Ewropeaidd, mae’n amlwg y byddai’n dymuno inni drafod ardaloedd gwledig ar wahân i ardaloedd trefol, ac efallai drin y Cymoedd diwydiannol ar wahân i ardal Abertawe Fwyaf. Rhagwelasom y gallai hynny ddod i’r amlwg yn ystod y pum mis o drafodaeth. Pan ddechreuwch drafodaeth, nid ydych yn disgwyl i’r ochr arall droi drosodd a chytuno â phopeth i ddechrau. Yr ydych yn disgwyl gwneud rhai newidiadau. Heb roi ymrwymiad heddiw, hwn yw’r math o fater yr ydym yn barod i’w ystyried mewn trafodaeth â swyddogion y Comisiwn. Adroddaf yn ôl ymhellach i’r Pwyllgor Datblygu Economaidd neu i’r Cynulliad, os credir bod angen hynny, yn ddiweddarach yn y cyfnod hir hwn o drafodaethau.
Is it not a sad day for Wales and for the Assembly and, more importantly, a particularly sad day for west Wales and the Valleys—the areas who stand to benefit most from the Objective 1 programme—that part of the SPD has been thrown back by the European Commission?
Onid yw’n ddiwrnod trist i Gymru ac i’r Cynulliad ac, yn bwysicach, yn ddiwrnod arbennig o drist i orllewin Cymru a’r Cymoedd—yr ardaloedd sydd i fod i elwa fwyaf o’r rhaglen Amcan 1—fod rhan o’r ddogfen rhaglennu sengl wedi ei thaflu’n ôl gan y Comisiwn Ewropeaidd?
As the Conservative spokesman in the debate on the SPD, I described it as bungling and incompetent—not too dissimilar to your colleague’s description of it as inept. That demonstrates our strength of feeling at that time. I hate to say it, but we told you so.
Fel y llefarydd Ceidwadol yn y ddadl ar y ddogfen rhaglennu sengl, fe’i disgrifiais fel un fwngleraidd ac anfedrus—nid yn rhy annhebyg i ddisgrifiad eich cydweithiwr ohoni fel un ddi-glem. Mae hynny’n dangos cryfder ein teimlad ar y pryd. Mae’n gas gennyf ddweud hyn, ond dywedasom mai felly y byddai.
Will you comment further on a couple of quotes that I have selected from the document?
A ydych yn barod i roi sylw pellach ar ddau ddyfyniad a ddewisais o’r ddogfen?
‘As regards rural development and agriculture the strategy is weak and perhaps this relates to the general lack of recognition of the general impact of rurality as an identifiable issue in its own right.’
‘O ran datblygiad gwledig ac amaethyddiaeth mae’r strategaeth yn wan ac efallai fod hyn yn ymwneud â’r diffyg cydnabyddiaeth cyffredinol o effaith gyffredinol gwledigrwydd fel mater adnabyddadwy ynddo’i hun.’
The document goes on to state,
Â’r ddogfen ymlaen i ddweud,
‘The Commission is not yet convinced that there exists a logical flow from the description of the current position through the strategy to the stated priorities.’
‘Nid yw’r Comisiwn yn argyhoeddedig eto bod llif rhesymegol yn bodoli o’r disgrifiad o’r sefyllfa bresennol drwy’r strategaeth i’r blaenoriaethau a bennwyd.’
That is the sort of response that we expected in the debate and the sort of response that I highlighted. Will you express your disquiet and your disappointment that in the European Parliament debate yesterday there was only one Welsh Member of the European Parliament present and, therefore, only one Welsh Member took part in the debate? It was not a Labour or a Plaid Cymru Member of the European Parliament. The only Welsh Member of the European Parliament who was present and who took part in yesterday’s debate was Jonathan Evans, the Conservative Member of the European Parliament.
Dyna’r math o ymateb yr oeddem yn ei ddisgwyl yn y ddadl a’r math o ymateb y tynnais sylw ato. A ydych yn barod i fynegi’ch anesmwythyd a’ch siom nad oedd ond un Aelod Seneddol Ewropeaidd Cymreig yn bresennol yn y ddadl yn y Senedd Ewropeaidd ddoe ac, felly, mai ond un Aelod Cymreig a gymerodd ran yn y ddadl? Nid Aelod Llafur neu Aelod Plaid Cymru o’r Senedd Ewropeaidd oedd hwnnw. Yr unig Aelod Seneddol Ewropeaidd Cymreig a oedd yn bresennol ac a gymerodd ran yn y ddadl ddoe oedd Jonathan Evans, yr Aelod Seneddol Ewropeaidd Ceidwadol.
I am afraid that, with that last element, Alun has trivialised what was a reasonably cogent contribution. The content of the document and the status we give to the comments made by the European Commission must be put in context. There are five months of negotiations and I hope you agree that I always made it clear that there would be five months of negotiations following the submission of the document. This is the informal first-cut response from the European Commission. It was sent after one month of those five months and circulated a month later by the Federation of Small Businesses on its website. We have always said that there would be five months of serious negotiations. When I was in Dublin a couple of months ago, I discussed with an Irish Treasury official their submission of Objective 1 documents and he said that it would be hand-to-hand combat. He said that the Commission will say that this and that must be changed and that this and that is not good enough. We will then reply that it is very well to say that but where is it stated in the European regulations? To some extent therefore, you must accept this element of disagreement. We will concede some of the points raised by the Commission and we will hit back on others because they are not stated in the regulations and we insist on that.
Mae arnaf ofn bod Alun, gyda’r elfen ddiwethaf honno, wedi bychanu’r hyn oedd yn gyfraniad gweddol effeithiol. Rhaid rhoi cynnwys y ddogfen a’r statws a roddwn i’r sylwadau a wnaethpwyd gan y Comisiwn Ewropeaidd yn eu cyd-destun. Mae pum mis o drafodaethau a gobeithiaf y cytunwch fy mod wedi rhoi ar ddeall erioed y byddai pum mis o drafodaethau ar ôl cyflwyno’r ddogfen. Hwn yw’r ymateb ergyd-gyntaf anffurfiol oddi wrth y Comisiwn Ewropeaidd. Fe’i hanfonwyd ar ôl un mis o’r pum mis hynny a’i gylchredeg fis yn ddiweddarach gan Ffederasiwn y Busnesau Bychain ar ei wefan. Dywedasom erioed y byddai pum mis o drafodaethau difrifol. Pan oeddwn yn Nulyn ddeufis yn ôl, trafodais eu cyflwyniad hwy o ddogfennau Amcan 1 â swyddog yn Nhrysorlys Iwerddon a dywedodd y byddai fel ymladd â’r dyrnau. Dywedodd y bydd y Comisiwn yn dweud bod rhaid newid hyn a’r llall ac nad yw hyn a’r llall yn ddigon da. Byddwn wedyn yn ymateb drwy ddweud mai digon hawdd yw dweud hynny ond ym mhle y dywedir hynny yn y rheoliadau Ewropeaidd? I ryw raddau, felly, rhaid ichi dderbyn yr elfen hon o anghytuno. Byddwn yn derbyn rhai o’r pwyntiau a godir gan y Comisiwn a byddwn yn taro’n ôl ynghylch eraill am na chrybwyllir hwy yn y rheoliadau ac am ein bod yn mynnu cael hynny.
If Alun was making this comment on 3 April, when we should be starting on the expenditure, I could understand him taking this heavy-handed line of doom and gloom, saying that we will not get the agreed Objective 1 programme. This is the first informal response from the European Commission. We do not expect the first formal response before the end of January or the first week in February. I will let him have the formal response and we will see if we are making progress. This is the basis of the negotiations that will take place over the next two and a half to three months.
Pe bai Alun yn gwneud y sylw hwn ar 3 Ebrill, pan ddylem fod yn dechrau ar y gwariant, gallaswn ddeall y safbwynt llawdrwm hwn o dristwch a gwae, gan ddweud na fyddwn yn cael y rhaglen Amcan 1 a gytunwyd. Hwn yw’r ymateb anffurfiol cyntaf oddi wrth y Comisiwn Ewropeaidd. Nid ydym yn disgwyl derbyn yr ymateb ffurfiol cyntaf cyn diwedd Ionawr neu’r wythnos gyntaf yn Chwefror. Gadawaf iddo gael yr ymateb ffurfiol a byddwn yn gweld a ydym yn gwneud cynnydd. Dyma sail y trafodaethau fydd yn digwydd dros y ddeufis a hanner i dri mis nesaf.
This document was apparently received by the Assembly on 19 December. However, you did not see it until a few days ago. It was circulated by others who obviously got it from or via the Assembly during the last few days. We, the Assembly spokespeople, received it through Assembly sources only today. That is worrying. We are desperately short of time to get information to people outside and we need to work hard at that.
Ymddengys fod y ddogfen hon wedi ei derbyn gan y Cynulliad ar 19 Rhagfyr. Fodd bynnag, ni welsoch hi tan ychydig ddyddiau’n ôl. Fe’i cylchredwyd gan eraill y mae’n amlwg iddynt ei chael oddi wrth neu drwy’r Cynulliad yn ystod y dyddiau diwethaf hyn. Dim ond heddiw y bu i ni, lefaryddion y Cynulliad, ei derbyn drwy ffynonellau’r Cynulliad. Mae hynny’n peri gofid. Yr ydym yn brin ofnadwy o amser i yrru gwybodaeth at rai y tu allan ac mae angen inni weithio’n galed ar hynny.
My second question is about the document itself. The document contains some strong criticism. There will be issues that will be bounced back and forth, but the principal criticism is the lack of connection between vision, strategy and implementation. That connection is fundamental. I am sure that you remember that we, along with some Labour Members, offered expert advisers to write that part of the plan, to link it together and give it cogency. What worries me now is that you may have given us another high wall to climb, another hurdle which will hold back the money coming to Wales. Can you give us absolute assurance, arising from your many discussions with the European Commission during the last few weeks, that we will not be waiting longer than 3 April for the go ahead on this programme?
Mae’r ail gwestiwn sydd gennyf yn ymwneud â’r ddogfen ei hun. Mae’r ddogfen yn cynnwys rhai beirniadaethau cryf. Bydd materion a gaiff eu bwrw’n ôl ac ymlaen, ond y brif feirniadaeth yw’r diffyg cysylltiad rhwng gweledigaeth, strategaeth a gweithredu. Mae’r cysylltiad hwnnw’n hanfodol. Yr wyf yn sicr y cofiwch ein bod ni, ynghyd â rhai Aelodau Llafur, wedi cynnig ymgynghorwyr arbenigol i ysgrifennu’r rhan honno o’r cynllun, i’w chydgysylltu a’i chryfhau. Yr hyn sydd yn peri pryder imi’n awr yw eich bod efallai wedi rhoi wal uchel arall inni ei dringo, rhwystr arall fydd yn dal yn ôl yr arian sydd yn dod i Gymru. A allwch roi sicrwydd llwyr i ni, ar ôl y nifer fawr o drafodaethau a gawsoch â’r Comisiwn Ewropeaidd yn ystod yr wythnosau diwethaf hyn, na fyddwn yn aros yn hwy na 3 Ebrill am y sêl bendith ar y rhaglen hon?
Absolutely. We are, without question, ahead of the game. We have crossed the hurdle of technical compliance without any problems. The Northern Ireland document did not. I am not criticising them but we have received the Commission’s first response. South Yorkshire and Cornwall have not had their response. Only ourselves and Merseyside, which is a less complex and far more compact area, have had the response. There is no question in my mind that we are making excellent progress. This is par for the course and exactly what we expected. The Commission has told us where it disagrees with us and we have the coming weeks to settle this by 1 April. We are not behind the game on any Objective measure. We are ahead of the game and I give you my assurance on that.
Yn hollol. Nid oes dwywaith ein bod ar y blaen. Aethom heibio i rwystr cydymffurfiad technegol heb unrhyw broblemau. Ni wnaeth dogfen Gogledd Iwerddon mo hynny. Nid wyf yn eu beirniadu ond ni a dderbyniodd ymateb cyntaf y Comisiwn. Nid yw De Swydd Efrog a Chernyw wedi derbyn eu hymateb. Dim ond ni a Glannau Mersi, sydd yn ardal lai cymhleth a llawer mwy cryno, a gafodd yr ymateb. Nid oes amheuaeth yn fy meddwl i ein bod yn gwneud cynnydd rhagorol. Mae hyn yn arferol ac yn union yr hyn yr oeddem yn ei ddisgwyl. Mae’r Comisiwn wedi dweud wrthym ar beth y mae’n anghytuno â ni ac mae’r wythnosau nesaf gennym i ddatrys hyn erbyn 1 Ebrill. Nid ydym ar ei hôl hi ar unrhyw fesur yn yr Amcan. Yr ydym ar y blaen a rhoddaf sicrwydd i chi ar hynny.
Does this not confirm that this stage of the Objective 1 process is all about plans and projects? To become obsessed about match funding now and to raise the stakes in terms of artificial six-week timetables is a red herring. Match funding will be sorted out in the comprehensive spending review.
Onid yw hyn yn cadarnhau bod y cam hwn yn y broses Amcan 1 yn ymwneud yn llwyr â chynlluniau a phrosiectau? Codi sgwarnog yw gwneud ariannu cyfatebol yn obsesiwn yn awr a rhoi pwys mawr ar amserlenni chwe-wythnos artiffisial. Caiff ariannu cyfatebol ei ddatrys yn yr adolygiad cynhwysfawr o wariant.
I am sure that it will. I understand that there is only one tangential reference to match funding in the Commission’s comments and it is one with which we entirely agree, as I do with the comment that Alun has just made.
Yr wyf yn sicr y caiff. Deallaf nad oes ond un cyfeiriad wrth fynd heibio at ariannu cyfatebol yn sylwadau’r Comisiwn ac mae’n un y cytunwn yn llwyr ag ef, fel y gwnaf â’r sylw y mae Alun newydd ei wneud.
Datganiad ar y Gwasanaeth Iechyd Gwladol
Statement on the National Health Service
Jane Hutt The Secretary for Health and Social Services spoken in English p. 24
Jane Hutt Yr Ysgrifennydd Iechyd a Gwasanaethau Cymdeithasol siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 24
Thank you, Llywydd, for giving me the opportunity to make a statement today. I want to give three clear messages in this statement, the first opportunity I have had to address the Assembly since the recess.
Diolch, Lywydd, am roi’r cyfle imi wneud datganiad heddiw. Yr wyf am roi tair neges eglur yn y datganiad hwn, sef y cyfle cyntaf a gefais i annerch y Cynulliad ers y toriad.
First, the national health service in Wales has been under severe pressure over the past three weeks as a result of the exceptional flu crisis. We owe a debt of gratitude to all those working in the NHS. I pay tribute to all NHS staff—nurses, doctors, general practitioners, therapists, support staff, managers and others—who have worked tirelessly to ensure that patients get the treatment they need as quickly as is practicable in difficult and challenging circumstances. Theirs was an exceptional response to difficult circumstances. This applies equally to those working in social care and local government, who have played their full part.
Yn gyntaf, bu’r gwasanaeth iechyd gwladol yng Nghymru dan bwysau difrifol dros y tair wythnos diwethaf o ganlyniad i’r argyfwng ffliw eithriadol. Mae arnom ddyled o ddiolchgarwch i bawb sydd yn gweithio yn yr NHS. Talaf deyrnged i holl staff yr NHS—nyrsys, meddygon, ymarferwyr cyffredinol, therapyddion, staff ategol, rheolwyr ac eraill—a weithiodd yn ddiflino i sicrhau y caiff y cleifion y driniaeth y mae arnynt ei hangen gynted ag y bo’n ymarferol mewn amgylchiadau sydd yn anodd ac yn ymestynnol. Yr oedd eu hymateb yn eithriadol i amgylchiadau anodd. Mae hynny yr un mor wir am y rhai sydd yn gweithio mewn gofal cymdeithasol a llywodraeth leol, a chwaraeodd eu rhan yn llawn.
Secondly, I confirm that each health authority, hospital, GP service and local authority had plans in place to respond to winter pressures and the millennium, and that I have monitored the situation on a daily basis over the past three weeks.
Yn ail, cadarnhaf fod gan bob awdurdod iechyd, ysbyty, gwasanaeth meddygon teulu ac awdurdod lleol gynlluniau’n weithredol i ymateb i bwysau’r gaeaf a’r mileniwm, ac fy mod wedi monitro’r sefyllfa’n ddyddiol dros y tair wythnos diwethaf.
Thirdly, we have much to learn from this experience, in particular about how we plan forward and manage such pressures at this time and throughout the year. For that reason I have established a taskforce to act on the lessons learned and to ensure that they are embedded into health and social care in Wales. I also recognise the efforts that many people made to look after themselves at home, with advice from their local out-of-hours GP services, pharmacies and emergency services, and support from their carers and families.
Yn drydydd, mae gennym lawer i’w ddysgu o’r profiad hwn, yn enwedig y modd y cynlluniwn ymlaen a rheoli pwysau o’r fath ar yr adeg hon a drwy gydol y flwyddyn. Am y rheswm hwnnw sefydlais dasglu i weithredu ar sail y gwersi a ddysgwyd ac i sicrhau y cânt eu hymgorffori mewn gofal iechyd a gofal cymdeithasol yng Nghymru. Cydnabyddaf hefyd yr ymdrechion a wnaethpwyd gan lawer o bobl i ofalu amdanynt eu hunain gartref, gyda chyngor oddi wrth eu gwasanaethau meddygon teulu y tu allan i oriau, fferyllfeydd a gwasanaethau brys, a chymorth oddi wrth eu gofalwyr a’u teuluoedd.
I will deal with the question of resources and investment in the NHS in this statement. However, in commenting on the background to these difficult weeks, I want to make clear that I do not minimise the extent of the problems or the efforts that were needed to deal with them. I visited hospitals and GP services and spoke to staff in the front line over the three weeks. I am acutely aware of the immense pressures and difficult conditions under which they have been working. For example, in Gwent there has been an increase in emergency admissions ranging from 40 per cent in one hospital to 75 per cent in another. These situations cannot and will not continue and I hope that all Assembly Members will join me in ensuring that they do not. As one GP said to me on Saturday, nurses and physicians have been hammered over the past weeks.
Ymdriniaf â mater adnoddau a buddsoddi yn yr NHS yn y datganiad hwn. Fodd bynnag, wrth wneud sylw am y cefndir i’r wythnosau anodd hyn, yr wyf am roi ar ddeall nad wyf yn bychanu maint y problemau na’r ymdrechion oedd yn angenrheidiol i ymdrin â hwy. Ymwelais ag ysbytai a gwasanaethau meddygon teulu a siaradais â staff yn y rheng flaen dros y tair wythnos. Yr wyf yn ymwybodol dros ben o’r pwysau aruthrol a’r amodau anodd y buont yn gweithio oddi tanynt. Er enghraifft, yng Ngwent bu cynnydd mewn derbyniadau brys oedd yn amrywio o 40 y cant mewn un ysbyty i 75 y cant mewn un arall. Ni all ac ni chaiff y sefyllfaoedd hyn barhau a gobeithiaf y bydd holl Aelodau’r Cynulliad yn ymuno â mi er mwyn sicrhau na fyddant. Fel y dywedodd un meddyg teulu wrthyf ddydd Sadwrn, mae nyrsys a meddygon wedi cael curfa dros yr wythnosau diwethaf.
If we look at the flu outbreak, the levels of infection in Wales have been the highest that they have been for a decade. Flu infections, together with associated respiratory infections and flu-like illnesses, have affected people for longer than usual—for as many as 11 to 12 days, rather than the normal four to five. It is too soon to say whether the worst has passed. Experience suggests that symptoms will remain in the population for some weeks. However, the reported levels of infection fell from 190 per 100,000 population in the first week of January to 157 per 100,000 population in the second week. The figures for last week will be available on Friday. This fall has to be a good sign and a welcome relief for hard-pressed staff. However, I know from the latest reports that the situation is still tight in parts of Wales in terms of emergency admissions. I will report on this in greater detail in the Health and Social Services Committee meeting tomorrow morning.
Os edrychwn ar y cychwyniad ffliw, y lefelau heintio yng Nghymru yw’r rhai uchaf ers degawd. Mae heintiadau ffliw, ynghyd â’r heintiadau anadliadol cysylltiedig a salwch tebyg i’r ffliw, wedi effeithio’n hwy na’r arfer ar bobl—gyn hwyed â 11 i 12 diwrnod, yn hytrach na’r pedwar neu’r pump arferol. Mae’n rhy fuan i ddweud a yw’r gwaethaf drosodd. Mae profiad yn awgrymu y bydd symptomau’n aros yn y boblogaeth am rai wythnosau. Fodd bynnag, gostyngodd y lefelau heintio a adroddwyd o 190 o bob 100,000 o’r boblogaeth yn wythnos gyntaf Ionawr i 157 o bob 100,000 o’r boblogaeth yn yr ail wythnos. Bydd y ffigurau am yr wythnos diwethaf ar gael ddydd Gwener. Mae’r gostyngiad hwn yn sicr o fod yn arwydd da ac yn rhyddhad derbyniol iawn i staff sydd dan bwysau. Fodd bynnag, gwn o’r adroddiadau diweddaraf fod y sefyllfa’n gwasgu o hyd mewn rhannau o Gymru o ran derbyniadau brys. Rhoddaf adroddiad manylach ar hyn yng nghyfarfod y Pwyllgor Iechyd a Gwasanaethau Cymdeithasol fore yfory.
I turn to the measures that were put in place by the NHS in readiness for the winter. This year the position was made more difficult by the need to plan for the millennium date change and the potential impact of the millennium celebrations. In fact, that impact did not occur; the peak occurred before and after the millennium. The NHS was able to make its plans against a background of action encouraged by the Assembly and reported on them to the Health and Social Services Committee. There has been daily reporting on the continuing pressures on critical care, including intensive care and high dependency beds, over the past weeks. Between 1997 and 1999, the number of these crucial beds in Wales has increased by almost 50 per cent, from 74 to 109. However, critical care services remain under heavy pressure and we will now review existing capacity.
Trof at y mesurau a sefydlwyd gan yr NHS yn barod ar gyfer y gaeaf. Eleni yr oedd y sefyllfa’n fwy anodd oherwydd yr angen i gynllunio ar gyfer newid dyddiad y mileniwm ac effaith bosibl dathliadau’r mileniwm. Yr oedd yr NHS yn gallu cynllunio yn erbyn cefndir o weithredu a hybwyd gan y Cynulliad a rhoddodd adroddiad arnynt i’r Pwyllgor Iechyd a Gwasanaethau Cymdeithasol. Cafwyd adroddiadau dyddiol ar y pwysau parhaus ar ofal critigol, gan gynnwys gwelyau gofal dwys a dibyniaeth uchel, dros yr wythnosau diwethaf. Rhwng 1997 a 1999, bu cynnydd o bron 50 y cant yn nifer y gwelyau hanfodol hyn yng Nghymru, o 74 i 109. Fodd bynnag, mae’r gwasanaethau gofal critigol yn parhau i fod o dan bwysau mawr a byddwn yn awr yn adolygu’r nifer bresennol.
Immunisation has rightly been a key topic for discussion. The Chief Medical Officer issued guidance to the NHS—both GPs and hospitals—in August, advising on the immunisation of vulnerable groups. These include the elderly, patients with chronic heart and chest complaints, people in long-stay accommodation and other patients with serious medical conditions. This message has been reinforced in our regular contact with the professions. We are aware of effective targeting in several areas. For example, Merthyr local health group made an effort to target those at particular risk of respiratory infection. Immunisation campaigns are important in limiting the burden caused by flu. The taskforce will look at this. However, we must remember that we cannot address the wider range of infectious illness that the winter brings.
Yn briodol, bu imiwneiddio’n bwnc trafodaeth allweddol. Rhoddodd y Prif Swyddog Meddygol arweiniad i’r NHS—i feddygon teulu ac i ysbytai—yn Awst, gan eu cynghori ynghylch imiwneiddio grwpiau sydd yn agored i niwed. Ymhlith y rhain y mae’r henoed, cleifion â chlefydau hirfaith ar y frest a’r galon, rhai mewn llety arhosiad-hir a chleifion eraill â chyflyrau meddygol difrifol. Ategwyd y neges hon yn ein cysylltiad rheolaidd â’r gweithwyr proffesiynol. Yr ydym yn ymwybodol o dargedu effeithiol mewn sawl ardal. Er enghraifft, gwnaethpwyd ymdrech gan grŵp iechyd lleol Merthyr Tudful i dargedu’r rhai oedd mewn perygl arbennig o gael heintiad anadliadol. Mae ymgyrchoedd imiwneiddio’n bwysig wrth leihau’r baich a achosir gan y ffliw. Bydd y tasglu’n edrych ar hynny. Fodd bynnag, rhaid inni gofio na allwn ymdrin â’r amrediad ehangach o glefydau heintus a ddaw gyda’r gaeaf.
Against this background, and building on the lessons learnt from the £22 million programme of winter pressures money available in the previous two years, health authorities, trusts, local authorities and others established plans to deal with the increased demands that they anticipated would face all services. These were backed by an early announcement of the largest ever increase in discretionary allocations for the NHS, which was 10.5 per cent for this year. The promptness of this announcement was welcomed widely and enabled the NHS to get ahead quickly, with its partners, in planning the measures that were put in place.
Yn erbyn y cefndir hwn, a chan adeiladu ar y gwersi a ddysgwyd o’r rhaglen £22 miliwn o arian pwysau’r gaeaf oedd ar gael yn y ddwy flynedd flaenorol, sefydlodd awdurdodau iechyd, ymddiriedolaethau, awdurdodau lleol ac eraill gynlluniau i ymdrin â’r galwadau cynyddol a ragwelent ar yr holl wasanaethau. Atgyfnerthwyd y rhain drwy gyhoeddiad buan am y cynnydd mwyaf erioed yn y dyraniadau dewisol i’r NHS, oedd yn 10.5 y cant ar gyfer eleni. Cafwyd croeso cyffredinol i brydlondeb y cyhoeddiad hwn a galluogodd yr NHS i symud ymlaen yn gyflym, gyda’i bartneriaid, wrth gynllunio’r mesurau a sefydlwyd.
All sectors of the NHS drew up plans and made appropriate contingency arrangements for their areas in the light of the past two years’ experience and the level of available resources. I will give you some examples. Bro Taf Health Authority established a strategy sub-group of its emergency admissions taskforce to address the longer term issues surrounding emergency admissions. For 1999-2000 the authority funded additional out-of-hour hospital support services, extra step-down beds for patients needing rehabilitation, more nursing and medical staff, local authority schemes to reduce admissions and extra discharge lounges. Iechyd Morgannwg Health supported schemes in the voluntary sector, increased the number of community care assessments, provided extra local rapid response home care and independent living services for older people, increased the number of beds in the private nursing home sector, provided more discharge support through Age Concern, and made more domicilary care support available. North Wales Health Authority funded an increased number of beds in the nursing home sector, increased support for home care and implemented schemes to reduce the rate of referrals to hospitals. Dyfed Powys Health Authority extended five-day wards to provide a seven-day service, and additional intensive care was made available. Gwent Health Authority increased critical care capacity, opened five-day wards for seven days, appointed extra nurse practitioners, opened day beds on a 24-hour basis and, among a wide range of initiatives, increased bed numbers. In addition, all trusts scaled down their elective activity over Christmas to ensure that the maximum number of beds and staff were available to cope with the expected increase in demand.
Lluniwyd cynlluniau gan holl sectorau’r NHS a gwnaethant drefniadau wrth gefn priodol ar gyfer eu hardaloedd yng ngoleuni profiad y ddwy flynedd diwethaf a’r lefel o adnoddau oedd ar gael. Rhoddaf rai enghreifftiau i chi. Sefydlodd Awdurdod Iechyd Bro Taf is-grŵp strategaeth o’i dasglu derbyniadau brys er mwyn ymdrin â’r materion tymor hwy sydd ynglŷn â derbyniadau brys. Ar gyfer 1999-2000 ariannodd yr awdurdod wasanaethau cefnogaeth ysbyty y tu allan i oriau ychwanegol, gwelyau gostwng i gleifion y mae angen eu hailsefydlu, mwy o staff nyrsio a meddygol, cynlluniau awdurdod lleol i leihau derbyniadau a lolfeydd rhyddhau ychwanegol. Rhoddodd Iechyd Morgannwg Health gymorth i gynlluniau yn y sector gwirfoddol, cynyddodd nifer yr asesiadau gofal cymunedol, darparodd ofal cartref ymateb cyflym lleol a gwasanaethau byw’n annibynnol ychwanegol i bobl hŷn, cynyddodd nifer y gwelyau yn y sector cartrefi nyrsio preifat, darparodd fwy o gefnogaeth rhyddhau drwy Gofal am yr Henoed, a sicrhaodd fod mwy o gefnogaeth gofal yn y cartref ar gael. Ariannodd Awdurdod Iechyd Gogledd Cymru nifer uwch o welyau yn y sector cartrefi nyrsio, rhoddodd fwy o gefnogaeth i ofal yn y cartref a gweithredodd gynlluniau i leihau’r gyfradd cyfeiriadau i ysbytai. Estynnodd Awdurdod Iechyd Dyfed Powys wardiau pum niwrnod er mwyn darparu gwasanaeth saith niwrnod, a darparodd ofal dwys ychwanegol. Cynyddodd Awdurdod Iechyd Gwent ei ddarpariaeth o ofal critigol, agorodd wardiau pum niwrnod am saith niwrnod, penododd nyrs-ymarferwyr ychwanegol, agorodd welyau dydd am 24 awr ac, ymysg amrediad eang o fentrau, cynyddodd nifer y gwelyau. Yn ogystal â hynny, lleihaodd yr holl ymddiriedolaethau eu gweithgaredd dewisol dros y Nadolig er mwyn sicrhau bod y nifer fwyaf posibl o welyau a staff ar gael i ddygymod â’r cynnydd yn y galw a ddisgwyliwyd.
I have also monitored the position for local government in facilitating discharge from hospital as part of its community care responsibilities. This is important when the NHS is faced with additional pressures. I saw many of these plans in action during my visits. During the past three weeks of visiting hospitals, accident and emergency departments, out-of-hours services and the ambulance control centre, I have seen the pressures at first hand and have heard from staff about how they have coped with that pressure. I have received daily reports from all health authorities on the local picture.
Yr wyf hefyd wedi monitro’r sefyllfa ar gyfer llywodraeth leol wrth hwyluso rhyddhau o ysbytai fel rhan o’i chyfrifoldebau gofal cymunedol. Mae hyn yn bwysig pan yw’r NHS yn wynebu pwysau ychwanegol. Gwelais lawer o’r cynlluniau hyn ar waith yn ystod fy ymweliadau. Yn ystod y tair wythnos diwethaf o ymweld ag ysbytai, adrannau ddamweiniau ac achosion brys, gwasanaethau y tu allan i oriau a’r ganolfan reoli ambiwlansiau, gwelais y pwysau fy hun a chlywais oddi wrth staff ynghylch y modd y maent wedi dygymod â’r pwysau hynny. Derbyniais adroddiadau bob dydd oddi wrth yr holl awdurdodau lleol am y darlun lleol.
Last week I had a helpful and constructive meeting with representatives from all health authorities, trusts, local health groups and social services. They reported on the current situation and also talked about innovative actions, about how they addressed the situation and their enthusiasm for a holistic approach to action. I am also arranging for an early meeting with representatives of more junior staff to learn from their experiences and to receive their suggestions. It is clear from my visits and these reports that early action is needed. That is why I announced last week that I would set up a taskforce. The taskforce will need to learn from the experience of the past three weeks but it is not intended to be a backward-looking exercise. I will look for early and practical advice from professionals, managers and other people at the sharp end. Some of these measures should be available in readiness for next year. Others will be for the medium term and for decisions within the Assembly itself. I want this taskforce to be genuinely representative of all the key interests with a contribution to make. I expect it to include experienced managers from health authorities, trusts, social services departments, doctors and nurses, representatives of the General Practice Committee and the Partnership Forum, the Welsh Local Government Association, local health groups and community health councils, with advice from senior Assembly officials.
Yr wythnos diwethaf cefais gyfarfod buddiol ac adeiladol â chynrychiolwyr o’r holl awdurdodau iechyd, ymddiriedolaethau, grwpiau iechyd lleol a gwasanaethau cymdeithasol. Rhoesant adroddiadau ar y sefyllfa bresennol a sôn hefyd am gamau arloesol, am y modd yr ymdriniasant â’r sefyllfa a’u brwdfrydedd dros ddull gweithredu cyfannol. Yr wyf hefyd yn trefnu ar gyfer cyfarfod buan â chynrychiolwyr o staff is er mwyn dysgu am eu profiadau ac i dderbyn eu hawgrymiadau. Mae’n amlwg oddi wrth fy ymweliadau a’r adroddiadau hyn bod angen gweithredu buan. Dyna pam y cyhoeddais yr wythnos diwethaf y byddwn yn sefydlu tasglu. Bydd angen i’r tasglu ddysgu o’r profiad dros y tair wythnos diwethaf ond ni fwriedir iddo fod yn ymarfer sydd yn edrych yn ôl. Ceisiaf gyngor buan ac ymarferol oddi wrth weithwyr proffesiynol, rheolwyr a rhai eraill yn y pen blaen. Dylai rhai o’r mesurau hyn fod ar gael yn barod ar gyfer y flwyddyn nesaf. Bydd eraill ar gyfer y tymor canolig ac ar gyfer penderfyniadau oddi mewn i’r Cynulliad ei hun. Yr wyf am i’r tasglu hwn fod yn wirioneddol gynrychioladol o’r holl fuddiannau allweddol sydd â chyfraniad i’w roi. Disgwyliaf iddo gynnwys rheolwyr profiadol o awdurdodau iechyd, ymddiriedolaethau, adrannau gwasanaethau cymdeithasol, meddygon a nyrsys, cynrychiolwyr o’r Pwyllgor Ymarfer Cyffredinol a’r Fforwm Partneriaeth, Cymdeithas Llywodraeth Leol Cymru, grwpiau iechyd lleol a chynghorau iechyd cymdeithas, gyda chyngor oddi wrth uwch swyddogion y Cynulliad.
I will chair this group and I have written to Kirsty Williams, David Lloyd and David Melding inviting them to participate in the Assembly taskforce. I am glad that it has been welcomed by the British Medical Association. The taskforce will need to consider all the issues identified in my discussions with the NHS and local government last week, as well as those I have seen on my visits. These must include the interface between the NHS and local government and between primary care and secondary care, questions of bed capacity, particularly of critical care, current immunisation policies, staffing and workforce planning, best practice and planning, the contribution of out-of-hours services and of nursing and residential homes, high levels of demand in non-winter months and chronic disease management.
Byddaf yn cadeirio’r grŵp hwn ac ysgrifennais at Kirsty Williams, David Lloyd a David Melding i’w gwahodd i gymryd rhan yn nhasglu’r Cynulliad. Yr wyf yn falch ei fod wedi derbyn croeso gan y Gymdeithas Feddygol Brydeinig. Bydd angen i’r tasglu ystyried yr holl faterion a ddynodwyd yn fy nhrafodaethau â’r NHS a llywodraeth leol yr wythnos diwethaf, yn ogystal â’r rhai a welais ar fy ymweliadau. Rhaid i’r rhain gynnwys y rhyngwyneb rhwng yr NHS a llywodraeth leol a rhwng gofal sylfaenol a gofal eilaidd, materion sydd yn ymwneud â niferoedd gwelyau, a gofal critigol yn enwedig, polisïau imiwneiddio cyfredol, cynllunio staffio a’r gweithlu, yr ymarfer a’r cynllunio gorau, cyfraniad gwasanaethau y tu allan i oriau a chartrefi nyrsio a phreswyl, lefelau galw uchel mewn misoedd heblaw rhai’r gaeaf a rheoli clefydau hirfaith.
In conclusion, I return to the question of resources. This Government has already substantially increased the overall level of resources available to the NHS. During the three years of the comprehensive spending review, the average real terms increase in resources for health in Wales is 5 per cent and will amount to at least 4.5 per cent next year; 4.8 per cent if we include the additional £7.9 million for health announced in December, which we expect to be available to spend next year. This compares to an average real terms growth of just 3.5 per cent over the 10 years of the previous Government up to 1997-98. In real terms, additional increase has been achieved by the Labour Government in Wales.
I derfynu, dychwelaf at gwestiwn adnoddau. Mae’r Llywodraeth hon eisoes wedi cynyddu’n sylweddol y lefel o adnoddau sydd ar gael i’r NHS. Yn ystod tair blynedd yr adolygiad cynhwysfawr o wariant, y cynnydd gwirioneddol cyfartalog mewn adnoddau ar gyfer iechyd yng Nghymru yw 5 y cant a bydd yn gymaint â 4.5 y cant o leiaf y flwyddyn nesaf; 4.8 y cant os cynhwyswn y £7.9 miliwn ychwanegol ar gyfer iechyd a gyhoeddwyd yn Rhagfyr, y disgwyliwn y bydd ar gael i’w wario y flwyddyn nesaf. Mae hyn yn cymharu â chynnydd gwirioneddol cyfartalog o ddim ond 3.5 y cant dros 10 mlynedd y Llywodraeth flaenorol hyd at 1997-98. Mewn termau gwirioneddol, cyflawnwyd cynnydd ychwanegol gan y Llywodraeth Lafur yng Nghymru.
Next year, through the revenue support grant, we will enable local authorities to spend an additional £51 million on social services. That is part of the whole social care investment. The events of the last three weeks have underlined the need for sustained increases in investment in our health and social services. Resource issues and workforce planning are part of the long-term strategy that the taskforce and the Assembly will debate. The new spending review, as Alun Michael has said, will look at future plans for our services. The Prime Minister has already made clear the importance that the Government attaches to ensuring that the NHS is funded to an adequate level, bringing UK spending up to the European average. Extra provision in the spending review for the NHS would feed through to the Assembly by the operations of the Barnett formula.
Y flwyddyn nesaf, drwy’r grant cynnal refeniw, byddwn yn galluogi awdurdodau lleol i wario £51 miliwn ychwanegol ar wasanaethau cymdeithasol. Mae hynny’n rhan o’r buddsoddiad cyfan mewn gofal cymdeithasol. Mae digwyddiadau’r tair wythnos diwethaf wedi tanlinellu’r angen am godiadau cyson yn y buddsoddiad yn ein gwasanaethau iechyd a chymdeithasol. Mae materion adnoddau a chynllunio gweithlu yn rhan o’r strategaeth dymor hir y bydd y tasglu a’r Cynulliad yn ei thrafod. Bydd yr adolygiad nesaf o wariant, fel y dywedodd Alun Michael, yn edrych ar gynlluniau’r dyfodol ar gyfer ein gwasanaethau. Mae’r Prif Weinidog eisoes wedi rhoi ar ddeall y pwys y mae’r Llywodraeth yn ei roi ar sicrhau ariannu ar lefel ddigonol i’r NHS, gan godi gwariant y DU i’r cyfartaledd Ewropeaidd. Byddai darpariaeth ychwanegol yn yr adolygiad o wariant i’r NHS yn dod drwodd i’r Cynulliad drwy weithrediad fformwla Barnett.
The Assembly will have the opportunity to reconsider its own plans later this year, once the outcome of the spending review is known for Wales. This is vital, but so are our efforts and determination to improve the health and wellbeing of the people of Wales in a concerted way, maximising strategies for prevention as well as good health care, through the better health, better Wales initiative.
Caiff y Cynulliad gyfle i ailystyried ei gynlluniau ei hun yn ddiweddarach eleni, wedi i ganlyniad yr adolygiad o wariant ar gyfer Cymru ddod yn hysbys. Mae hynny’n holl bwysig, ond yr un mor bwysig yw ein hymdrechion a’n penderfyniad i wella iechyd a lles pobl Cymru drwy weithredu ar y cyd, gan fanteisio i’r eithaf ar strategaethau atal yn ogystal â gofal iechyd da, drwy’r fenter gwell iechyd, gwell Cymru.
Diolch Jane. Mae’n hyfryd ein bod ni’n cael trafodaeth wyneb yn wyneb. Yr ydym wedi bod yn trafod trwy’r cyfryngau ers tair wythnos.
Thank you Jane. It is delightful that we are having a face to face discussion. We have been discussing through the media for three weeks.
Fel y gwyddoch, yr wyf wedi bod yn gweithio yn y gwasanaeth iechyd, ac yn dal i weithio ynddo. Y mae hi’n 20 mlynedd ers imi raddio fel meddyg.
As you know, I have been working in the health service, and still work in it. It is 20 years since I graduated as a doctor.
Yr ydym i gyd yn gwybod am broblemau gwariant, neu ddiffyg gwariant, ar iechyd. Mae gwledydd cyfatebol yn Ewrop yn gwario llawer mwy ar iechyd. Mae angen i Brydain, os ydym i gredu’r hyn a ddywedodd Tony Blair yn ystod y penwythnos, wario £28 biliwn yn ychwanegol ar iechyd, dim ond i gyrraedd lefel gwariant yr Almaen. Dyna oblygiadau yr hyn a ddywedodd Tony Blair ddydd Sul: £28 biliwn yn ychwanegol.
We all know about the problems of expenditure, or the lack of expenditure, on health. Comparable countries in Europe spend far more on health. Britain needs, if we are to believe what Tony Blair said over the weekend, to spend £28 billion more on health, just to reach the expenditure levels of Germany. That is the implication of what, Tony Blair said on Sunday: an extra £28 billion.
Un o’r problemau sylfaenol, fel yr ydym ni feddygon a nyrsys sydd yn gweithio yn yr NHS wedi darganfod ers blynyddoedd, yw diffyg gwelyau. Mae hyn yn deillio o’r diffyg adnoddau, ac yn enwedig y modd yr ydym yn rhannu ac yn dosbarthu’r adnoddau ariannol. Rhaid inni edrych eto ar y ffordd yr ydym yn ariannu ein hawdurdodau iechyd, yn enwedig awdurdodau iechyd gwledig, achos nid yw’r fformwla ar hyn o bryd yn ystyried ei bod yn fwy costus i ddarparu gwasanaethau iechyd mewn ardal wledig. Rhaid inni newid hynny.
One of the fundamental problems, as we doctors and nurses working in the NHS have found for years, is the scarcity of beds. This stems from the lack of resources, and particularly the way we share and distribute the financial resources. We must look again at the way we fund our health authorities, especially rural health authorities, because the present formula does not take into consideration that it is more expensive to provide health services in rural areas. We must change that.
Yr ydym wedi colli gwelyau dros genhedlaeth. Mae ein gweinyddwyr yn mynnu ein bod yn llenwi ein hysbytai, ac yn eu cadw bron yn gyfan gwbl lawn drwy gydol y flwyddyn. Nid oes unrhyw hyblygrwydd yn y system ar hyn o bryd. Pan geir argyfwng fel hyn, mae’r gwelyau bron yn llawn beth bynnag. Nid oes slac yn y system o gwbl. Dyna’r broblem yn ei hanfod.
We have lost beds over a generation. Our administrators insist that we fill our hospitals and keep them almost completely full throughout the year. There is no flexibility whatsoever within the system at present. When there is a crisis of this kind, the beds are nearly full anyway. There is no slack in the system at all. That is the essence of the problem.
Yn ogystal â hynny mae diffyg yn niferoedd y nyrsys sydd yn gweithio yn gwasanaeth. Mae’r ffigurau’n amrywio ond mae o leiaf 8,000 o nyrsys wedi eu colli ym Mhrydain Fawr. Rhaid inni edrych ar eu hamodau gwaith a’u cyflogau a sicrhau ein bod yn ariannu’r cyflogau hynny yn ganolog, nid yn lleol, a heb wneud rhyw fath o addewid dros dro. Yr ydym newydd addo ein bod yn codi cyflogau nyrsys a meddygon ond disgwylir i’r arian ddod o wasanaethau lleol o hyd, oherwydd ni chaiff ei ariannu’n ganolog. Rhaid newid hynny.
There is also a deficit in the number of nurses working in the service. Figures vary but at least 8,000 nurses have been lost in Great Britain. We must look at their conditions of service and pay and ensure that their salaries are financed centrally, not locally, without making some kind of interim promise. We have just promised that we will increase nurses’ and doctors’ pay but the money is still expected to come from local services, because it will not be financed centrally. That must be changed.
Mae angen hybu brechiad y ffliw. Mae tystiolaeth mewn nifer o leoedd fod 70 y cant o’n henoed a ddylai fod wedi cael brechiad eleni heb gael un. Yr oedd y firws ffliw eleni yn llawer gwaeth nag arfer, nid yn unig o ran niferoedd—cawsom niferoedd gwaeth yn y blynyddoedd a fu—ond o ran ei effaith. Dyna paham yr oedd nifer fawr o hen bobl wael iawn mewn unedau gofal dwys.
The flu vaccine needs to be promoted. There is evidence in a number of places that 70 per cent of our elderly who should have had a vaccine this year have not had one. The flu virus this year was much worse than usual, not only in terms of numbers—we have had worse numbers in the past—but in its effect. That is why there was a large number of seriously ill elderly people in intensive care units.
Yn ogystal â’r ffliw mae mwy o achosion llid ar yr ymennydd. Clywsom heddiw am farwolaeth o lid ar yr ymennydd yng Nghwm Carn. Mae pryderon o hyd—yn Abertawe, ac mewn nifer o leoedd eraill yng Nghymru—ynglŷn â phroblem darparu brechiad ar gyfer straen C llid ar yr ymennydd. Mae problemau cael gafael arno.
As well as the flu there are more cases of meningitis. We heard today of a meningitis death in Cwm Carn. There are still concerns—in Swansea, and in many other places in Wales—regarding the problem of providing a vaccine for meningitis strain C. There are problems in getting hold of it.
Tasgluoedd fu’r ateb i bob cyfyngder ers dechrau’r Cynulliad. Cawsom dasglu i edrych ar bresgripsiynau, i edrych ar restrau aros, a nifer o dasgluoedd eraill. Yn yr argyfwng diweddaraf hwn cawn dasglu arall. Y broblem yw y byddwn yn penderfynu’r gyllideb iechyd yn derfynol ymhen tair wythnos. Mae arnom eisiau atebion a gweithredu yn awr. Os na fydd darpariaeth ychwanegol yn awr—megis rhagor o welyau, rhagor o nyrsys ac ymgyrch i hybu brechiad y ffliw—wedi ei hariannu cyn inni wneud y penderfyniad terfynol ynglŷn â’r gyllideb, bydd argyfwng arall y gaeaf nesaf. Byddwn yn cytuno ar gyllideb 2000-01 ymhen tair wythnos. Mae’n rhaid inni weithredu yn awr, nid aros am ateb tasglu ymhen chwe mis. Yr ydym yn gwybod y cwestiynau a’r atebion. Mae angen gweithredu o fewn y tair wythnos nesaf er mwyn i’r arian ychwanegol—a dyna yw’r diffyg yn y bôn—gael ei gynnwys yn ein cyllid cyn ein bod yn gwneud y penderfyniad terfynol ymhen tair wythnos. Fel arall, bydd argyfwng arall y gaeaf nesaf.
Taskforces have been the answer to every crisis since the Assembly’s inauguration. We had a taskforce to look at prescriptions, to look at waiting lists, and several other taskforces. In this latest crisis we have another taskforce. The problem is that we shall be finally determining the health budget in three weeks’ time. We need answers and action now. If no additional provision is made now—such as more beds, more nurses and a campaign to promote the flu vaccine—funded before we make the final decision about the budget, there will be another crisis next winter. We will agree the 2000-01 budget in three weeks’ time. We must act now rather than wait for a taskforce in six months’ time. We know the questions and answers. Action is needed within the next three weeks so that the additional money—which is basically the shortfall—is included in our budget before we make the final decision in three weeks time. Otherwise, there will be another crisis next winter.
O sôn am dasgluoedd, mae Swyddfa Ymchwil a Datblygiad Cymru, WORD, yn cynhyrchu’r daflen wybodaeth Llewyrch o bryd i’w gilydd. Mae newydd wneud astudiaeth drylwyr o dan y teitl ‘Gwelyau a biwrocratiaeth: ymateb i bwysau gaeaf yng Nghymru’ a gyhoeddwyd ym mis Rhagfyr 1999. Gwnaethpwyd yr astudiaeth eisoes gan y Cynulliad yn y daflen hon. Mae’r atebion gennym: dyna pam y mae’n rhaid inni weithredu.
On the subject of taskforces, the Wales Office of Research and Development, WORD, occasionally produces the Spotlight information sheet. It has just completed a thorough study under the title ‘Beds and bureaucracy: responding to winter pressures in Wales’, published in December 1999. The study has already been undertaken by the Assembly in this leaflet. We have the answers: that is why we must act.
Diolch am y gwahoddiad i fod yn y tasglu, ond credaf y byddai’n amhriodol i mi dderbyn, oherwydd yr ydym yn gwybod yr ateb. Ni fyddai’r hyn a fyddai gennyf i’w gynnig yn newid ateb y tasglu. Rhaid inni weithredu, ond nid drwy dasgluoedd.
Thank you for the invitation to join the taskforce, but I believe that it would be inappropriate for me to accept, because we know the answer. What I would have to offer would not change the taskforce’s answer. We must act, but not through taskforces.
We have communicated over the airwaves on a number of occasions during the last few weeks, Dai. The kinds of actions that you talk about have to be taken and that is why I am setting up this taskforce. We wanted to jump hurdles and barriers and to take the kind of action that you require. I hope that you will reconsider and join this taskforce. It will involve doctors and nurses, people at the sharp end who have strong views about the action that should be taken. They are the people that we should listen to, as we do in the Health and Social Services Committee. They are the people that I have been talking to over the past few weeks. We would value your contribution to that taskforce.
Yr ydym wedi cyfathrebu dros donnau’r awyr sawl gwaith yn ystod yr wythnosau diwethaf hyn, Dai. Mae’r mathau o gamau y soniwch amdanynt wedi eu cymryd a dyna pam yr wyf yn sefydlu’r tasglu hwn. Yr oeddem am neidio’r clwydi a’r rhwystrau ac am weithredu yn y modd y gofynnwch amdano. Gobeithiaf y byddwch yn ailystyried ac yn ymuno â’r tasglu hwn. Bydd yn cynnwys meddygon a nyrsys, rhai yn y pen blaen sydd â barn gryf am y camau y dylid eu cymryd. Hwy yw’r bobl y dylem wrando arnynt, fel y gwnawn yn y Pwyllgor Iechyd a Gwasanaethau Cymdeithasol. Hwy yw’r bobl y bûm yn siarad â hwy dros yr wythnosau diwethaf. Byddem yn gwerthfawrogi’ch cyfraniad i’r tasglu hwnnw.
You made a range of points about the issues with which we have to deal. The beds and bureaucracy report that you mentioned is being discussed by the Waiting Time Strategy Group. As a result of Committee support, that important group is already active. It is considering the issue of waiting times and clinical priorities. As you know, it takes three years to train a nurse and seven years to train a doctor. In terms of our staffing capacity, we must ensure that we have the right kind of workforce planning. That is why that issue is on the agenda.
Gwnaethoch amrediad o bwyntiau am y materion y mae’n rhaid inni ymdrin â hwy. Mae’r adroddiad ar welyau a biwrocratiaeth y soniasoch amdano’n cael ei drafod gan y Grŵp Strategaeth Amseroedd Aros. O ganlyniad i gefnogaeth y Pwyllgor, mae’r grŵp pwysig hwnnw eisoes yn weithredol. Mae’n ystyried mater amseroedd aros a blaenoriaethau clinigol. Fel y gwyddoch, mae angen tair blynedd i hyfforddi nyrs a saith mlynedd i hyfforddi meddyg. O ran ein niferoedd staffio, rhaid inni sicrhau bod gennym y math iawn o gynllunio ar gyfer y gweithlu. Dyna pam y mae’r mater hwnnw ar yr agenda.
We must also recognise that, yesterday, we acknowledged the work of nurses and doctors in Wales by giving an across-the-board settlement of 3.4 per cent for nurses in Wales. Some Grade E nurses will receive 7 to 8 per cent more than they do at the moment. There was also a 3.3 per cent recommended increase for doctors and dentists. That is important. Health authorities had already planned and prepared for increases. They are now calculating the impact of the pay review body increases. That sent a clear message yesterday from the Assembly and from myself as the Secretary for Health and Social Services, that this Government backs our nurses and that nursing is a career into which we will encourage our young people. We must build our nursing resources in Wales. I was concerned to find that we lose nurses and we must have retention as well as recruitment strategies. However, we do not have as great a recruitment problem in Wales as England does. We now have the number of students coming through nursing training that we need in our hospitals.
Rhaid inni dderbyn hefyd ein bod, ddoe, wedi cydnabod gwaith nyrsys a meddygon yng Nghymru drwy roi setliad cyffredinol o 3.4 y cant i nyrsys yng Nghymru. Bydd rhai nyrsys ar Raddfa E yn derbyn 7 i 8 y cant yn fwy nag y maent ar hyn o bryd. Hefyd argymhellwyd cynnydd o 3.3 y cant ar gyfer meddygon a deintyddion. Mae hynny’n bwysig. Yr oedd yr awdurdodau iechyd eisoes wedi cynllunio a pharatoi ar gyfer codiadau. Yn awr maent yn cyfrifo effaith codiadau’r corff adolygu tâl. Gyrrodd hynny neges eglur ddoe oddi wrth y Cynulliad ac oddi wrthyf fi fel yr Ysgrifennydd Iechyd a Gwasanaethau Cymdeithasol, fod y Llywodraeth hon yn cefnogi ein nyrsys a bod nyrsio’n yrfa y byddwn yn annog ein pobl ifanc i fynd iddi. Rhaid inni adeiladu ein hadnoddau nyrsio yng Nghymru. Yr oedd yn ofid imi ganfod ein bod yn colli nyrsys a rhaid inni gael strategaethau cadw yn ogystal â rhai recriwtio. Fodd bynnag, nid oes gennym broblem recriwtio mor fawr yng Nghymru ag yn Lloegr. Bellach mae’r nifer o fyfyrwyr sydd yn dod drwy hyfforddiant nyrsio yn cyfateb i’r hyn y mae arnom ei angen yn ein hysbytai.
In terms of the points that you made, Dai, we are reacting to the situation during the last three weeks and learning from it. I have taken action over the past few weeks and have kept you informed through my statements. I am here today to encourage this Assembly to endorse what I have said about the huge debt of gratitude that we owe to NHS staff in Wales, and to acknowledge their work. It is important that we do not undermine their work. The taskforce will enable us to jump over hurdles and barriers, over bureaucracy, and to get a strategy under way. It will address all the issues that you have raised with me today. We also have the recognition, at UK level as well as in Wales, that we need a sustained improvement in NHS resources. I hope that the Assembly as a whole can embrace that spirit of recognition and that we can renew and rebuild the NHS together and support our staff in difficult and pressured times.
O ran y pwyntiau a wnaethoch, Dai, yr ydym yn ymateb i’r sefyllfa yn ystod y tair wythnos diwethaf ac yn dysgu oddi wrthi. Cymerais gamau dros yr wythnosau diwethaf hyn a rhoddais wybod i chi drwy fy natganiadau. Yr wyf yma heddiw i annog y Cynulliad hwn i gadarnhau’r hyn a ddywedais am y ddyled aruthrol o ddiolchgarwch sydd arnom i staff yr NHS yng Nghymru, ac i gydnabod eu gwaith. Mae’n bwysig nad ydym yn tanseilio eu gwaith. Bydd y tasglu’n ein galluogi i neidio dros glwydi a rhwystrau, dros fiwrocratiaeth, ac i gychwyn strategaeth. Bydd yn ymdrin â’r holl faterion yr ydych wedi eu codi gyda mi heddiw. Cawsom y gydnabyddiaeth hefyd, ar lefel y DU yn ogystal ag yng Nghymru, fod arnom angen gwelliant parhaus yn adnoddau’r NHS. Gobeithiaf fod y Cynulliad fel cyfangorff yn gallu derbyn yr ysbryd hwnnw o gydnabyddiaeth ac y gallwn adnewyddu ac ailgodi’r NHS gyda’n gilydd a chefnogi ein staff mewn cyfnod anodd pan y maent dan bwysau.
I thank the Assembly Secretary for her detailed statement this afternoon. However, I must confess that I feel as I did after trying to plough my way through Bertrand Russell’s Principia Mathematica, which, as I recall, concludes on page 360, ‘therefore one and one equals two’—an important principle, I grant you, but one that did not quite require such exhaustive proof.
Diolchaf i’r Ysgrifennydd Cynulliad am ei datganiad manwl y prynhawn yma. Fodd bynnag, rhaid imi gyfaddef fy mod yn teimlo fel y gwneuthum ar ôl ceisio turio drwy Principia Mathematica Bertrand Russell, sydd, os cofiaf yn iawn, yn dod i’r casgliad ar dudalen 360, ‘felly mae un ac un yn hafal i ddau’—egwyddor bwysig, yr wyf yn derbyn, ond un nad oedd angen prawf mor gynhwysfawr â hynny ar ei chyfer.
We have heard the Assembly Secretary approach honestly all the problems that currently face the NHS in Wales, look them square in the face and walk away without saying anything meaningful. All that we have is a promise to conduct government by taskforce. Like Dai, I am flattered to be asked to join the taskforce. However, I wonder if this is the executive action that we need. If this is the new Wales being created, we need an Executive that answers to the promises it made to the electorate and delivers a better health service. The Labour Party was the party that talked big on health. It is now delivering miserably. Talking about Labour’s manifesto promises, there are rumours that it will have a taskforce on the honouring of manifesto promises. Indeed, I have heard that I will be asked to serve on it. [Laughter.] I will have to think seriously about that.
Clywsom yr Ysgrifennydd Cynulliad yn ymdrin yn onest â’r holl broblemau sydd yn wynebu’r NHS yng Nghymru ar hyn o bryd, yn edrych arnynt wyneb yn wyneb ac yn cerdded ymaith heb ddweud dim byd ystyrlon. Y cwbl a gawn yw addewid i gynnal llywodraeth drwy dasgluoedd. Fel Dai, fe’m gwenieithwyd gan y gwahoddiad i ymuno â’r tasglu. Fodd bynnag, tybed ai hyn yw’r math o gam gweithredol y mae arnom ei angen. Os mai hon yw’r Gymru newydd sydd yn cael ei chreu, mae arnom angen Gweithrediaeth sydd yn cyflawni’r addewidion a wnaeth i’r etholwyr ac yn rhoi gwasanaeth iechyd gwell. Y Blaid Lafur oedd y blaid oedd yn fawr ei sôn am iechyd. Yn awr mae’n cyflawni hynny’n druenus. A sôn am addewidion maniffesto Llafur, mae sïon y bydd ganddi dasglu ar gadw addewidion maniffesto. Yn wir, clywais y byddaf yn cael fy ngwahodd i wasanaethu arno. [Chwerthin.] Bydd yn rhaid imi feddwl o ddifrif ynghylch hynny.
If there is to be a taskforce, let us ensure that it has a majority of clinicians, practitioners and those on the frontline who have seen the crisis over the last weeks and can make valuable suggestions on how to avoid these crises. We need that, and that should be the measure.
Os oes tasglu i fod, gadewch inni sicrhau bod arno fwyafrif o glinigwyr, ymarferwyr a rhai yn y rheng flaen a welodd yr argyfwng dros yr wythnosau diwethaf ac sydd yn gallu rhoi awgrymiadau gwerthfawr ar y modd i osgoi’r argyfyngau hyn. Mae arnom angen hynny, a dyna’r ffon fesur briodol.
The Government’s commitment to increase spending is very interesting because we have now lost the rhetoric that there will be an extra £1 billion spent on the NHS in Wales. Do you remember that? I do not think that you could possibly forget; it was great rhetoric. After talking so big, the Government has talked up this crisis because people naturally expected a transformed health service.
Mae ymrwymiad y Llywodraeth i gynyddu gwariant yn ddiddorol iawn oherwydd bellach yr ydym wedi colli’r rhethreg y bydd £1 biliwn ychwanegol yn cael ei wario ar yr NHS yng Nghymru. A gofiwch hynny? Ni chredaf y gallech fyth ei anghofio; yr oedd yn rhethreg wych. Ar ôl bod mor fawr ei sôn, mae’r Llywodraeth wedi chwyddo’r argyfwng hwn am fod pobl yn naturiol yn disgwyl gwasanaeth iechyd wedi ei weddnewid.
I welcome Tony Blair’s commitment to raise our spending on health to the European average. However, that is a panic measure and, by heavens, we will ensure that the Labour Party delivers it or we will tell the electorate why it has been failing.
Croesawaf ymrwymiad Tony Blair i godi ein gwariant ar iechyd i’r cyfartaledd Ewropeaidd. Fodd bynnag, mae hynny’n fesur brysiog ac, er mwyn dyn, sicrhawn y bydd y Blaid Lafur yn ei gyflawni neu dywedwn wrth yr etholwyr pam y methodd.
We have lost the £1 billion, but we heard the Secretary for Health and Social Services talk about the increases that have been delivered. Fortunately, the Business Manager gave me a statement outlining Jane Hutt’s remarks this afternoon. It states—for the benefit of journalists no doubt—that it must be checked against the delivery. She talked a great deal about the increases that this Government has delivered compared with the previous one. She said that real terms additional increases have been achieved by a Labour Government in Wales. That is what will appear on the record. However, she forgot to read out the full sentence, which I will now do for your benefit:
Yr ydym wedi colli’r £1 biliwn, ond clywsom yr Ysgrifennydd Iechyd a Gwasanaethau Cymdeithasol yn sôn am y cynyddiadau a gyflawnwyd. Yn anffodus, rhoddodd y Trefnydd ddatganiad i mi oedd yn amlinellu sylwadau Jane Hutt y prynhawn yma. Mae’n dweud—er budd newyddiadurwyr, mae’n siŵr—fod rhaid ei wirio yn ôl y geiriau a lefarir. Dywedodd lawer iawn am y cynyddiadau a gyflawnodd y Llywodraeth hon o’i chymharu â’r un flaenorol. Dywedodd fod cynyddiadau ychwanegol gwirioneddol wedi eu cyflawni gan Lywodraeth Lafur yng Nghymru. Dyna fydd yn ymddangos ar y cofnod. Fodd bynnag, anghofiodd ddarllen y frawddeg lawn, a gwnaf hynny’n awr er eich mwyn:
‘a real terms additional increase of 1.5 per cent has been achieved by a Labour Government in Wales’.
‘mae cynnydd ychwanegol gwirioneddol o 1.5 y cant wedi ei gyflawni gan Lywodraeth Lafur yng Nghymru’.
You should have been honest enough to read that out this afternoon, Jane. I am glad that you have, at least ditched your claim to be spending £1 billion more on the health service. Clearly, that is not the case.
Dylasech fod yn ddigon gonest i ddarllen hynny y prynhawn yma, Jane. Yr wyf yn falch eich bod o leiaf wedi rhoi heibio’ch honiad eich bod yn gwario £1 biliwn yn fwy ar y gwasanaeth iechyd. Mae’n amlwg nad yw hynny’n wir.
On health, you have now realised that measures exist. It is not difficult to see if claims are being delivered or not. That will continue. No amount of taskforces will scatter that message so that it cannot be identified as your responsibility.
Ar iechyd, yr ydych bellach wedi sylweddoli bod mesuryddion yn bod. Nid yw’n anodd gweld a yw’r honiadau’n cael eu cyflawni ai peidio. Bydd hynny’n parhau. Ni thycia’r un tasglu i chwalu’r neges honno fel nad ellir ei weld yn gyfrifoldeb i chi.
I am sorry that my attempt to be inclusive in this Assembly falls on stony ground. The people who want to be included on the taskforce are those who will benefit from it; the people in the service who have worked tremendously hard over the past months, who continue to do so and who are not interested in oppositional politics. This is too serious for that. That is why my statement was so detailed.
Mae’n ddrwg gennyf fod fy ymgais i fod yn gynhwysol yn y Cynulliad hwn yn syrthio ar greigleoedd. Y rhai sydd am gael eu cynnwys yn y tasglu yw’r rhai a fydd yn elwa ohono; y bobl yn y gwasanaeth a weithiodd yn aruthrol o galed dros y misoedd diwethaf, sydd yn parhau i wneud hynny ac sydd heb ddiddordeb mewn gwleidyddiaeth wrthbleidiol. Mae hyn yn rhy ddifrifol i hynny. Dyna pam yr oedd fy natganiad mor fanwl.
This is an opportunity for the Assembly to unite to address these issues, as you have acknowledged David, and reflect in an open and honest way what should be considered by this taskforce. I hope, David, that you will reconsider your view about joining the taskforce. However, I assure you that we will get on with the job because that is what is expected of us.
Mae hyn yn gyfle i’r Cynulliad ddod ynghyd i ymdrin â’r materion hyn, fel yr ydych wedi cydnabod David, a meddwl yn agored ac yn onest dros yr hyn a ddylai gael ei ystyried gan y tasglu hwn. Gobeithiaf, David, y byddwch yn ailystyried eich safbwynt ynghylch ymuno â’r tasglu. Fodd bynnag, fe’ch sicrhaf y byddwn yn mynd ymlaen â’r gwaith oherwydd dyna’r hyn a ddisgwylir oddi wrthym.
We have put an extra £1 billion into health as part of the comprehensive spending review. I do not want to repeat the figures, but I will state again that this compares to an average real terms growth of just 3.5 per cent over the 10 years of Conservative Government up until 1997. A real terms additional increase of 1.5 per cent has been achieved by the Labour Government in Wales over and above the Conservative Government’s additional increase.
Yr ydym wedi rhoi £1 biliwn yn ychwanegol mewn iechyd fel rhan o’r adolygiad cynhwysfawr o wariant. Nid wyf am ailadrodd y ffigurau, ond dywedaf eto fod hyn yn cymharu â chynnydd gwirioneddol cyfartalog o ddim ond 3.5 y cant dros 10 mlynedd o Lywodraeth Geidwadol hyd at 1997. Cyflawnwyd cynnydd ychwanegol gwirioneddol o 1.5 y cant gan y Llywodraeth Lafur yng Nghymru uwchlaw cynnydd ychwanegol y Llywodraeth Geidwadol.
Under William Hague, Wales lost 1,200 beds, in-patient waiting lists increased by 5,800 and we lost 300 nurses, midwives and health visitors. I do not want to be oppositional in my role as Secretary for Health and Social Services but we must go back and look at the record and consider what we must do to rebuild and renew this health service. There should be some optimism in this room and across all the parties about the fact that there is a recognition. We have drawn attention to the health service in the past three weeks in a way that we did not during the first nine months of the Assembly. We have the opportunities, let us work together and address them through this taskforce.
O dan William Hague, collodd Cymru 1,200 o welyau, bu cynnydd o 5,800 yn y rhestrau aros i gleifion mewnol a chollasom 300 o nyrsys, bydwragedd ac ymwelwyr iechyd. Nid wyf am fod yn wrthbleidiol yn fy rôl fel Ysgrifennydd Iechyd a Gwasanaethau Cymdeithasol ond rhaid inni fynd yn ôl ac edrych ar y cofnod ac ystyried yr hyn y mae’n rhaid inni ei wneud er mwyn ailgodi ac adnewyddu’r gwasanaeth iechyd hwn. Dylai fod rhywfaint o obaith yn yr ystafell hon ac ar draws yr holl bleidiau ynghylch y ffaith bod cydnabyddiaeth. Yr ydym wedi tynnu sylw at y gwasanaeth iechyd yn y tair wythnos diwethaf mewn modd na wnaethom yn ystod naw mis cyntaf y Cynulliad. Mae’r cyfleoedd gennym, gadewch inni gydweithio ac ymdrin â hwy drwy’r tasglu hwn.
Thank you, Jane, for making a statement today, the day on which Morriston Hospital has had to close its accident and emergency department for the next two days and transfer all cases to Singleton Hospital because it cannot cope. It has also stopped all of its referrals from out of county. Forty per cent of those referrals are my constituents, and those of others here, from Powys. Those people will not now receive the treatment that they have been promised. Therefore, thank you for your statement on this auspicious day. I, too, join you in thanking NHS staff in Wales who have performed a wonderful role under very difficult circumstances during the last couple of weeks.
Diolch, Jane, am wneud datganiad heddiw, y diwrnod pan fu’n rhaid i Ysbyty Treforys gau ei adran ddamweiniau ac achosion brys am y ddau ddiwrnod nesaf a throsglwyddo’r holl achosion i Ysbyty Singleton am nad yw’n gallu dygymod. Mae hefyd wedi atal yr holl gyfeiriadau o’r tu allan i’r sir. Mae 40 y cant o’r cyfeiriadau hynny’n etholwyr i mi, ac i eraill yma, o Bowys. Bellach ni fydd y bobl hynny’n derbyn y driniaeth a addawyd iddynt. Felly, diolch i chi am eich datganiad ar y diwrnod gobeithiol hwn. Ymunaf finnau hefyd â chi wrth ddiolch i staff yr NHS yng Nghymru a gyflawnodd rôl ryfeddol o dan amgylchiadau anodd iawn yn ystod yr wythnosau diwethaf.
However, they should not have been required to do that, Jane. We should not be discussing what we need to do in preparation for next winter, nor should we be discussing this winter now. This should not have happened this winter. It happened last winter and we should have learnt the lessons then to stop it from happening again. Unless you take urgent action, which all three parties have urged, we will experience the same difficulties again next year. Some of the reasons have been covered.
Fodd bynnag, ni ddylasai wedi bod yn ofynnol iddynt wneud hynny, Jane. Ni ddylem fod yn trafod yr hyn y mae’n rhaid inni ei wneud i baratoi ar gyfer y gaeaf nesaf, nac yn trafod y gaeaf hwn yn awr. Ni ddylasai hyn fod wedi digwydd y gaeaf hwn. Digwyddodd y gaeaf diwethaf a dylasem fod wedi dysgu’r gwersi bryd hynny er mwyn ei atal rhag digwydd eto. Oni chymerwch gamau brys, a anogwyd gan bob un o’r tair plaid, byddwn yn profi’r un anawsterau y flwyddyn nesaf. Ymdriniwyd â rhai o’r rhesymau.
I sympathise with you, Jane, in being attacked by the Conservatives. We know there is a bed shortage in Wales. In the last 10 years, we have lost 7,000 beds, the majority of which were cut under the last Conservative Government. There is a shortage of doctors and nurses. There are some 600 nursing vacancies but, as you rightly said, it takes three years to train a nurse and seven years to train a doctor. If the Conservatives acted three and seven years ago on an NHS human resource strategy, we would not have these shortages now. Therefore, they are equally culpable in this situation, but that does not excuse your lack of action now.
Cydymdeimlaf â chi, Jane, ar gael ymosodiad gan y Ceidwadwyr. Gwyddom fod prinder gwelyau yng Nghymru. Yn y 10 mlynedd diwethaf, collasom 7,000 o welyau, a’r rhan fwyaf ohonynt wedi eu torri o dan y Llywodraeth Geidwadol ddiwethaf. Mae prinder meddygon a nyrsys. Mae tua 600 o swyddi nyrsys gwag ond, fel y dywedasoch, mae angen tair blynedd i hyfforddi nyrs a saith mlynedd i hyfforddi meddyg. Pe bai’r Ceidwadwyr wedi gweithredu dair a saith mlynedd yn ôl ar strategaeth adnoddau dynol ar gyfer yr NHS, ni fyddai’r prinderau hyn gennym yn awr. Felly, maent yr un mor euog yn y sefyllfa hon, ond nid yw hynny’n esgusodi’ch diffyg gweithredu yn awr.
Whatever the pros and cons of your taskforce and whoever agrees or does not agree to sit on it, the answers lie in the workforce of the NHS in Wales. It is by consulting and working with them that we will avoid the situation next year. Ultimately, the taskforce needs to know that there will be resources and money to back its recommendations. All the recommendations in the world will be useless unless your Government finds the resources to implement them.
Beth bynnag yw manteision ac anfanteision eich tasglu a phwy bynnag a fydd yn cydsynio neu’n gwrthod eistedd arno, mae’r atebion i’w cael yng ngweithlu’r NHS yng Nghymru. Drwy ymgynghori a gweithio â hwy y byddwn yn osgoi’r sefyllfa y flwyddyn nesaf. Yn y pen draw, mae angen i’r tasglu wybod y bydd adnoddau ac arian i gefnogi ei argymhellion. Bydd yr holl argymhellion yn y byd yn ddiwerth oni ddaw’ch Llywodraeth o hyd i’r adnoddau i’w gweithredu.
Our average spending on the NHS—6.9 per cent—is far below the European average and even further behind that of the USA—over 13 per cent. I welcome Mr Blair’s announcements on the weekend, but we will have to wait five years before equalling European figures and there is no guarantee from where that money will come. There are no answers about where the huge amount of money that Dai referred to will come from.
Mae ein gwariant cyfartalog ar yr NHS—6.9 y cant—yn is o lawer na’r cyfartaledd Ewropeaidd ac yn is byth nag un UDA—dros 13 y cant. Croesawaf gyhoeddiadau Mr Blair dros y penwythnos, ond bydd yn rhaid inni ddisgwyl pum mlynedd cyn dod yn gyfartal â’r ffigurau Ewropeaidd ac nid oes sicrwydd o ble y daw’r arian hwnnw. Nid oes atebion i ddweud o ble y daw’r swm aruthrol o arian y cyfeiriodd Dai ato.
I turn to the figures that you mentioned in your statement. Six months ago, trusts and authorities planned for that money to be spent on services and equipment. The ball game has now changed. The money that they expected for such services must now be used to pay for the most welcome pay rises for NHS staff. You constantly spin figures to the NHS and demand more of it, yet you are not willing to give it the resources to meet your demands. Creating a taskforce is an executive action. We need a promise of more resources for the NHS in Wales in the budget debate within the next three weeks.
Trof at y ffigurau a grybwyllwyd gennych yn eich datganiad. Chwe mis yn ôl, cynlluniodd yr awdurdodau a’r ymddiriedolaethau i wario’r arian hwnnw ar wasanaethau ac offer. Mae’r gêm wedi newid bellach. Bellach rhaid defnyddio’r arian yr oeddent yn ei ddisgwyl ar gyfer gwasanaethau o’r fath i dalu am y codiadau cyflog derbyniol iawn i staff yr NHS. Yr ydych o hyd yn troelli ffigurau ynghylch yr NHS ac yn gofyn mwy oddi wrtho, ond nid ydych yn barod i roi iddo’r adnoddau i ateb eich gofynion. Cam gweithredol yw creu tasglu. Mae arnom angen addewid o fwy o adnoddau ar gyfer yr NHS yng Nghymru yn y ddadl ar y gyllideb o fewn y tair wythnos nesaf.
I do not want to respond to all of those points, because Brian also wants to speak and we must move on.
Nid wyf am ymateb i’r holl bwyntiau hynny, oherwydd mae Brian yn dymuno siarad hefyd a rhaid inni symud ymlaen.
Thank you. There is no doubt that the NHS is under severe pressure. However, people should pay tribute to the health service for managing the unprecedented task of doubling flu vaccinations. No patients have had to leave their health authorities or usual hospital network areas to be admitted to hospital. Four years ago, ambulances had to travel up and down the M4 corridor looking for beds as there were none available between Haverfordwest and Bristol. That has not happened now and the reason why—[ASSEMBLY MEMBERS: ‘Yes it has’.]
Diolch. Nid oes dwywaith bod yr NHS o dan bwysau difrifol. Fodd bynnag, dylai pobl dalu teyrnged i’r gwasanaeth iechyd am lwyddo yn y dasg ddigyffelyb o ddyblu’r brechiadau rhag y ffliw. Ni fu’n rhaid i unrhyw gleifion adael eu hawdurdodau iechyd neu eu hardaloedd rhwydwaith ysbytai arferol i gael eu derbyn i ysbyty. Bedair blynedd yn ôl, bu’n rhaid i ambiwlansiau deithio i fyny ac i lawr coridor yr M4 yn chwilio am welyau am nad oedd yr un ar gael rhwng Hwlffordd a Bryste. Ni ddigwyddodd hynny y tro hwn a’r rheswm am hynny—[AELODAU O’R CYNULLIAD: ‘Do, digwyddodd hynny’.]
I would be glad to hear examples. No patients have left their health authority areas or usual network areas for admission. Four years ago, patients had to travel from Haverfordwest to Prince Charles Hospital and to Bristol. That has not happened this time.
Byddwn yn falch o glywed enghreifftiau. Nid oes yr un claf wedi gadael ei ardal awdurdod iechyd neu ei ardal rhwydwaith ysbytai arferol i gael ei dderbyn. Bedair blynedd yn ôl, bu’n rhaid i gleifion deithio o Hwlffordd i Ysbyty’r Tywysog Siarl ac i Fryste. Ni ddigwyddodd hynny y tro hwn.
Yes it has.
Do, digwyddodd hynny.
Then we would be interested in hearing of the examples.
Yna byddai o ddiddordeb gennym glywed am yr enghreifftiau.
Dafydd Elis-Thomas The Presiding Officer spoken in English p. 39
Dafydd Elis-Thomas Y Llywydd siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 39
Order. Not today.
Trefn. Nid heddiw.
One reason why the health service has managed so well is because we have listened to many of the messages in the beds and bureaucracy report. One key recommendation was that winter bed money should be given to the health authorities at the beginning of the financial year so that the necessary planning could take place to allow us to contemplate the various initiatives about which Jane has received suggestions.
Un rheswm pam y mae’r gwasanaeth iechyd wedi dygymod gystal yw ein bod wedi gwrando ar lawer o’r negeseuon yn yr adroddiad ar welyau a biwrocratiaeth. Un argymhelliad allweddol oedd y dylid rhoi arian gwelyau’r gaeaf i’r awdurdodau iechyd ar ddechrau’r flwyddyn ariannol fel y gallai’r cynllunio angenrheidiol ddigwydd a chaniatáu inni ystyried y gwahanol fentrau y derbyniodd Jane awgrymiadau yn eu cylch.
The negative reaction to the announcement of the working party is disappointing because there are lessons to learn from the bed and flu crisis that we have faced. Those lessons will help us to decide what the configuration and mix of beds should be. How many more high dependency unit beds do we need? What mixture of convalescent beds do we need? Do we need a proactive, planned flu vaccination campaign? We do not need this philistine reaction. We should work together to do better next year.
Mae’r ymateb negyddol i’r cyhoeddiad am y gweithgor yn peri siom oherwydd mae gwersi i’w dysgu o’r argyfwng gwelyau a ffliw a wynebasom. Bydd y gwersi hynny’n ein helpu i benderfynu ar y cyfluniad a chymysgedd gwelyau priodol. Sawl gwely ychwanegol y mae arnom ei angen mewn unedau dibyniaeth uchel? Pa gymysgedd o welyau ymadfer y mae arnom ei angen? A oes arnom angen ymgyrch brechiadau ffliw rhagweithiol, cynlluniedig? Nid oes arnom angen yr ymateb philistaidd hwn. Dylem weithio gyda’n gilydd i wneud yn well y flwyddyn nesaf.
Given the lack of time today, I will answer some of these detailed points in my statement to the Health and Social Services Committee tomorrow.
Yng ngolwg y prinder amser heddiw, byddaf yn ateb rhai o’r pwyntiau manwl hyn yn fy natganiad i’r Pwyllgor Iechyd a Gwasanaethau Cymdeithasol yfory.
Datganiad ar Gefnogi Ieuenctid yng Nghymru
Statement on Supporting Young People in Wales
Alun Michael The First Secretary spoken in English p. 40
Alun Michael Y Prif Ysgrifennydd siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 40
I am pleased to report that we have received agreement from the UK Cabinet for the inclusion of Welsh clauses in the Learning and Skills Bill to enable us to develop a Welsh system for the support of young people. Ours will be a partnership approach, building on the strength of the statutory and voluntary sectors in Wales.
Yr wyf yn falch o adrodd ein bod wedi cael cytundeb Cabinet y DU i gynnwys cymalau Cymreig yn y Mesur Dysgu a Medrau i’n galluogi i ddatblygu system Gymreig ar gyfer cefnogi pobl ifanc. Dull partneriaeth yw’r hyn a fydd gennym, sydd yn adeiladu ar gryfder y sectorau statudol a gwirfoddol yng Nghymru.
In the light of this good news, I report to the Assembly on how we propose to take forward the cross-cutting agenda for support for young people in Wales. It will involve extensive consultation with young people and those who work with them in the statutory and voluntary sectors. Tom Middlehurst will report on progress to the Post-16 Education and Training Committee and invite that Committee to contribute to developing the detailed policy. I invite the Assembly as a whole to be involved in developing a Welsh strategy for the young people of Wales.
Yng ngoleuni’r newydd hwn, adroddaf i’r Cynulliad ynghylch y modd y bwriadwn fwrw ymlaen â’r agenda drawsbynciol i gefnogi pobl ifanc yng Nghymru. Bydd yn cynnwys ymgynghori eang â phobl ifanc a’r rhai sydd yn gweithio gyda hwy yn y sectorau statudol a gwirfoddol. Bydd Tom Middlehurst yn adrodd ar y cynnydd i’r Pwyllgor Addysg a Hyfforddiant Ôl-16 ac yn gwahodd y Pwyllgor hwnnw i gyfrannu at ddatblygu’r polisi manwl. Gwahoddaf y Cynulliad fel cyfangorff i gymryd rhan wrth ddatblygu strategaeth Gymreig ar gyfer ieuenctid Cymru.
Engaging more effectively with young people and helping them to fulfil their potential in the workforce and their communities is key to achieving a more prosperous and fairer Wales. This is part of the much wider effort to promote inclusion and achieve better outcomes for all the people of Wales, which will be the subject of the Plenary debate later today.
Mae cysylltu’n fwy effeithiol â phobl ifanc a’u helpu i gyflawni eu potensial yn y gweithlu ac yn eu cymunedau yn allweddol i sicrhau Cymru decach a mwy ffyniannus. Mae hyn yn rhan o’r ymdrech ehangach o lawer i hybu cynhwysiant a sicrhau gwell canlyniadau i holl bobl Cymru, a fydd yn destun i ddadl yn y Cyfarfod Llawn yn ddiweddarach heddiw.
Tapping into the potential of our young people requires concerted action by the statutory and voluntary sectors. Each of the mainstream programmes—in education, training and the careers service—must ensure that provision is of high quality and responsive to the needs of all young people. However, that is not enough on its own.
Mae cyfranogi o botensial ein pobl ifanc yn gofyn am weithredu ar y cyd gan y sectorau statudol a gwirfoddol. Rhaid i bob un o raglenni’r brif ffrwd—mewn addysg, hyfforddiant a’r gwasanaeth gyrfaoedd—sicrhau bod y ddarpariaeth o ansawdd uchel ac yn ymatebol i anghenion yr holl bobl ifanc. Fodd bynnag, nid yw hynny’n ddigon ar ei ben ei hun.
In the past, each generation has recognised the need for informal and formal support for young people as they grow up, encouraging their positive aspirations and ambitions, and countering social problems and disadvantage. Our voluntary organisations—as can be seen from the Albermarle report on youth and community work in the 1970s—grow from these roots, as do the public organisations. There is a long list of previous efforts to provide the right service for young people.
Yn y gorffennol, mae pob cenhedlaeth wedi cydnabod yr angen am gefnogaeth anffurfiol a ffurfiol i bobl ifanc wrth iddynt dyfu, gan hybu eu dyheadau a’u huchelgeisiau cadarnhaol, a gwrthweithio problemau cymdeithasol ac anfantais. Mae ein mudiadau gwirfoddol—fel y gwelir o adroddiad Albermarle ar waith ieuenctid a chymunedol yn y 1970au—yn tyfu o’r gwreiddiau hyn, fel y mae’r cyrff cyhoeddus. Mae rhestr hir o ymdrechion blaenorol i ddarparu’r gwasanaeth priodol i bobl ifanc.
Although the statutory youth service was cut back during the early 1990s, it still makes an important contribution, as do leisure services and community groups. The voluntary sector plays a vital role, often showing immense capacity for innovation as well as an ability to adapt and review its contribution. While existing organisations have adapted their work, other organisations have developed and emerged as a result of different initiatives or as a response to new social and economic challenges. Youth action groups, the Weston Spirit, Millennium Volunteers, Prince’s Trust initiatives and new Urdd initiatives are just a few examples.
Er bod y gwasanaeth ieuenctid statudol wedi ei gwtogi yn ystod y 1990au cynnar, mae’n dal i roi cyfraniad pwysig, fel y mae gwasanaethau hamdden a grwpiau cymunedol. Mae’r sector gwirfoddol yn chwarae rhan hanfodol, gan amlygu gallu aruthrol i arloesi mewn llawer achos yn ogystal â’r gallu i addasu ac adolygu ei gyfraniad. Er bod y mudiadau presennol wedi addasu eu gwaith, mae mudiadau eraill wedi datblygu ac wedi dod i’r amlwg o ganlyniad i wahanol fentrau neu fel ymateb i heriau cymdeithasol ac economaidd newydd. Mae grwpiau gweithredu ieuenctid, y Weston Spirit, Gwirfoddolwyr y Mileniwm, mentrau Ymddiriedolaeth y Tywysog a mentrau newydd yr Urdd yn ychydig enghreifftiau o hynny.
In addition, we have many initiatives targeted at young people, which are designed to engage them in voluntary and community action and to re-engage disaffected young people and build their personal and social skills. The challenge is to look strategically at how these programmes and schemes fit together to provide a coherent network of support and opportunity designed to help young people take full advantage of education, training and employment, obtain specialist support where it is needed and to participate fully in their communities. The issues are complex, and solutions need to fit closely into the Assembly’s vision for education and training, children and families, lifelong learning, health and wellbeing, social inclusion and sustainable communities, economic development and equality of opportunity.
Yn ychwanegol at hynny, mae gennym lawer o fentrau a dargedwyd at bobl ifanc, a ddyfeisiwyd er mwyn eu cynnwys mewn gweithredu gwirfoddol a chymunedol ac i ailgynnwys pobl ifanc anniddig a chryfhau eu medrau personol a chymdeithasol. Yr her yw edrych yn strategol ar y modd y mae’r rhaglenni a chynlluniau hyn yn ffitio i’w gilydd er mwyn darparu rhwydwaith cydlynol o gefnogaeth a chyfle er mwyn helpu pobl ifanc i fanteisio’n llawn ar addysg, hyfforddiant a chyflogaeth, i gael cefnogaeth arbenigol pan fo angen hynny ac i gymryd rhan yn llawn yn eu cymunedau. Mae’r materion yn gymhleth, ac mae angen i’r atebion ffitio’n dynn â gweledigaeth y Cynulliad am addysg a hyfforddiant, plant a theuluoedd, dysgu gydol oes, iechyd a lles, cynhwysiant cymdeithasol a chymunedau cynaliadwy, datblygu economaidd a chyfle cyfartal.
We will use the opportunity presented by the Learning and Skills Bill to introduce new Welsh clauses on youth support during the passage of the Bill. These clauses will be tailored to our circumstances. They will enable us to fulfil the commitment we gave in our Green Paper ‘Learning is for Everyone’, to clarify the statutory basis for youth work and to develop a more focused and coherent approach. Local authorities will be at the centre of this, charged with connecting planning and delivery at a community level in partnership with the voluntary sector and the other statutory agencies. This partnership approach is crucial to achieving a holistic response to young people’s needs.
Byddwn yn defnyddio’r cyfle a roddir gan y Mesur Dysgu a Medrau i gyflwyno cymalau Cymreig newydd ar gefnogaeth ieuenctid yn ystod taith y Mesur. Teilwrir y cymalau hyn i’n hamgylchiadau. Byddant yn ein galluogi i gyflawni’r ymrwymiad a roesom yn ein Papur Gwyrdd ‘Rhywbeth i Bawb yw Dysgu’, i roi gwedd eglurach ar y sail statudol i waith ieuenctid ac i ddatblygu dull gweithredu mwy eglur a chydlynol. Bydd awdurdodau lleol ar ganol hynny, a’r cyfrifoldeb ganddynt o gysylltu cynllunio a chyflenwi ar lefel gymunedol mewn partneriaeth â’r sector gwirfoddol a’r asiantaethau statudol eraill. Mae’r dull partneriaeth hwn yn holl bwysig er mwyn sicrhau ymateb cyfannol i anghenion pobl ifanc.
It is crucial that we ensure that we address the real current needs of young people and listen to their views. In conjunction with youth organisations in Wales, I propose that this shall be an early focus in the development of Young Voice/Llais Ifanc, which I launched following a statement to the Assembly in December. To prepare the ground, I have asked the policy unit to look at the relevant programmes and initiatives and advise on what needs to be done to make them more coherent and responsive to young people’s needs and to link them better with community regeneration. I have also asked the unit to identify and support those young people at risk of getting into trouble, to identify gaps in provision and to reduce duplication and complexity.
Mae’n holl bwysig inni sicrhau ein bod yn rhoi sylw i wir anghenion pobl ifanc ar hyn o bryd ac yn gwrando ar eu barn. Ar y cyd â mudiadau ieuenctid yng Nghymru, cynigiaf y dylid canolbwyntio’n gynnar ar hyn wrth ddatblygu Young Voice/Llais Ifanc, a lansiwyd gennyf ar ôl datganiad i’r Cynulliad ym mis Rhagfyr. Er mwyn braenaru’r tir, yr wyf wedi gofyn i’r uned bolisi edrych ar y rhaglenni a’r mentrau perthnasol a rhoi cyngor ar yr hyn y mae angen ei wneud er mwyn eu gwneud yn fwy cydlynol ac ymatebol i anghenion pobl ifanc a’u cysylltu’n well ag adfywio cymunedol. Gofynnais hefyd i’r uned ddynodi a chefnogi’r bobl ifanc hynny sydd mewn perygl o fynd i helynt, dynodi bylchau yn y ddarpariaeth a lleihau dyblygu a chymhlethdod.
An advisory group of experts in the field will help to ensure that the analysis addresses all the policy issues. I am pleased to say that the following individuals have agreed to act as that professional group. Between them they cover a wide range of support services and work with young people. They are: Mrs Margaret Jarvis, from Valleys Kids and Play Wales; Dr Howard Williamson, from the school of social science, Cardiff University, who is also vice chair of the Wales Youth Agency; Mr David Adamson, who is associate head of the school of humanities and social sciences, University of Glamorgan; Mr Peter Perkins, who is Deputy Lord Mayor of Cardiff and chair of education and cultural services committee, and also chair of CareerPaths (Cardiff and the Vale) Limited; Mrs Viv Sugar, chief executive of Swansea City and County Council; Mr Keith Towler, from the National Association for the Care and Resettlement of Offenders, who is the adviser to the Assembly on youth offending teams; Mrs Joyce M’Caw, chief executive of Careers Plus in Mold; Mr John Taylor from Training and Enterprise Council South East Wales; Dr Sharon Hopkins, director of public health at Bro Taf Health Authority, who has recently become chair of the Bro Taf drug and alcohol team and a member of the Assembly substance misuse advisory panel; Mrs Jane Williams, senior youth and community officer at Conwy County Borough Council, who chairs the principal youth officer group for Wales; Mr Jim O’Rourke, chief executive of Urdd Gobaith Cymru; and Mrs Sheila Hendrickson from Race Equality First.
Bydd grŵp ymgynghorol o arbenigwyr yn y maes yn helpu i sicrhau bod y dadansoddiad yn ymdrin â’r holl faterion polisi. Yr wyf yn falch o ddweud bod yr unigolion canlynol wedi cytuno i weithredu fel y grŵp proffesiynol hwnnw. Rhyngddynt a’i gilydd maent yn cynnwys amrediad eang o wasanaethau cefnogaeth a gwaith gyda phobl ifanc. Eu henwau yw: Mrs Margaret Jarvis, o Valleys Kids a Play Wales; Dr Howard Williamson, o ysgol y gwyddorau cymdeithasol, Prifysgol Caerdydd, sydd hefyd yn is-gadeirydd Asiantaeth Ieuenctid Cymru; Mr David Adamson, sydd yn bennaeth cyswllt ysgol y dyniaethau a’r gwyddorau cymdeithasol, Prifysgol Morgannwg; Mr Peter Perkins, sydd yn Ddirprwy Arglwydd Faer Caerdydd ac yn gadeirydd y pwyllgor addysg a gwasanaethau diwylliannol, ac hefyd yn gadeirydd CareerPaths (Cardiff and the Vale) Cyfyngedig; Mrs Viv Sugar, prif weithredwr Cyngor Dinas a Sir Abertawe; Mr Keith Towler, o’r Gymdeithas Genedlaethol er Gofal ac Ailsefydlu Troseddwyr, sydd yn ymgynghorydd i’r Cynulliad ar dimau troseddu ieuenctid; Mrs Joyce M’Caw, prif weithredwr Careers Plus yn yr Wyddgrug; Mr John Taylor o Gyngor Hyfforddiant a Menter De Ddwyrain Cymru; Dr Sharon Hopkins, y cyfarwyddwr iechyd cyhoeddus yn Awdurdod Iechyd Bro Taf, a ddaeth yn gadeirydd yn ddiweddar ar dîm cyffuriau ac alcohol Bro Taf ac yn aelod o banel ymgynghorol y Cynulliad ar gamddefnyddio sylweddau; Mrs Jane Williams, uwch swyddog ieuenctid a chymuned yng Nghyngor Bwrdeistref Sirol Conwy, sydd yn cadeirio prif grŵp swyddogion ieuenctid Cymru; Mr Jim O’Rourke, prif weithredwr Urdd Gobaith Cymru; a Mrs Sheila Hendrickson o Race Equality First.
In addition the unit will work closely with the team developing the strategy for children and young people, and with groups working directly with young people in Wales. We will talk directly to public bodies, especially the Welsh Local Government Association, and with voluntary organisations and others who have an interest and experience of working with young people. The work will be publicised widely and contributions will be invited from all interested parties, including young people. Our virtual youth Assembly, which is being designed as the Assembly’s own communications network for young people—I refer to Young Voice/Llais Ifanc—will play a significant role in this.
Yn ychwanegol at hynny bydd yr uned yn gweithio’n agos gyda’r tîm sydd yn datblygu’r strategaeth ar gyfer plant a phobl ifanc, a chyda grwpiau sydd yn gweithio’n uniongyrchol â phobl ifanc yng Nghymru. Siaradwn yn uniongyrchol â chyrff cyhoeddus, yn enwedig Cymdeithas Llywodraeth Leol Cymru, a chyda mudiadau gwirfoddol ac eraill sydd â diddordeb a phrofiad o weithio gyda phobl ifanc. Rhoddir cyhoeddusrwydd eang i’r gwaith a gwahoddir cyfraniadau oddi wrth bawb sydd yn gysylltiedig, gan gynnwys pobl ifanc. Bydd ein Cynulliad ieuenctid rhithwir, sydd yn cael ei gynllunio fel rhwydwaith cyfathrebu’r Cynulliad ei hun ar gyfer pobl ifanc—cyfeiriaf at Young Voice/Llais Ifanc—yn chwarae rôl bwysig yn hyn.
This is not a finalised, top-down approach, but an opportunity to be grasped. We are seizing the legislative opportunity to put enabling clauses forward to do something which drew me into political action—to engage and give opportunity to young people. However, designing the policy detail and making it work is a job for the whole Assembly and our partners throughout Wales. I hope that Assembly Members will also make a contribution and encourage their young constituents, youth workers and community groups in their areas to do the same.
Nid dull gweithredu gorffenedig, o’r top i’r gwaelod, mo hwn, ond cyfle y dylid gafael ynddo. Yr ydym yn gafael yn y cyfle deddfwriaethol i gyflwyno cymalau galluogi er mwyn gwneud rhywbeth a’m denodd i weithredu’n wleidyddol—creu cysylltiad â phobl ifanc a rhoi cyfle iddynt. Fodd bynnag, mae llunio manylion y polisi a’i weithredu yn waith i’r Cynulliad cyfan a’n partneriaid ledled Cymru. Gobeithiaf y bydd Aelodau’r Cynulliad hefyd yn cyfrannu ac yn annog eu hetholwyr ifanc, gweithwyr ieuenctid a grwpiau cymunedol yn eu hardaloedd i wneud yr un fath.
On behalf of the Party of Wales, I warmly welcome this statement from the First Secretary. You would expect us to welcome any primary legislation in Westminster that enables Wales to go its own way and develop its own policy. It is vital that we make this investment in our young people. I welcome the commitment in your statement to involve the whole of the Assembly and our partners in taking this forward. This is somewhat in contrast to the way that Young Voice/Llais Ifanc, was launched. However, that was last year and this is now.
Ar ran Plaid Cymru, rhoddaf groeso cynnes i’r datganiad hwn gan y Prif Ysgrifennydd. Byddech yn disgwyl inni groesawu unrhyw ddeddfwriaeth sylfaenol yn San Steffan sydd yn galluogi Cymru i ddilyn ei llwybr ei hun a datblygu ei pholisi ei hun. Mae’n holl bwysig inni wneud y buddsoddiad hwn yn ein pobl ifanc. Croesawaf yr ymrwymiad yn eich datganiad i gynnwys y Cynulliad cyfan a’n partneriaid wrth ddatblygu hyn. Mae hyn braidd yn wahanol i’r modd y lansiwyd Young Voice/Llais Ifanc. Fodd bynnag, y llynedd oedd hynny a dyma’n awr.
I ask the First Secretary and Mr Middlehurst to consider one concern. The organisations that have been brought together as part of the professional group are all good and able. However, I am concerned that these are organisations that provide services for young people. Would it be possible to consider involving organisations of young people at this early stage? I welcome the commitment to consult with young people once the original proposals have been drafted. However, my own experience of working with young people suggests that they are fed up with being consulted after the event. It may be worth our while to look at organisations, such as Voices from Care, where young people are the driving force.
Gofynnaf i’r Prif Ysgrifennydd a Mr Middlehurst ystyried un mater o bryder. Mae’r cyrff a’r mudiadau y daethpwyd â hwy at ei gilydd fel rhan o’r grŵp proffesiynol oll yn rhai da ac abl. Fodd bynnag, yr wyf yn bryderus mai cyrff a mudiadau sydd yn darparu gwasanaethau ar gyfer pobl ifanc yw’r rhain. A oes modd ystyried cynnwys mudiadau pobl ifanc yn y cyfnod cynnar hwn? Croesawaf yr ymrwymiad i ymgynghori â phobl ifanc ar ôl drafftio’r cynigion gwreiddiol. Fodd bynnag, mae fy mhrofiad fy hun o weithio gyda phobl ifanc yn awgrymu eu bod wedi syrffedu ar rai’n ymgynghori â hwy drannoeth y ffair. Gallai fod yn fuddiol inni edrych ar fudiadau, fel Voices from Care, lle y mae pobl ifanc yn brif ysgogwyr.
I thank the First Secretary for bringing this before us and I assure him of the full support of Plaid Cymru—The Party of Wales in moving this agenda forward.
Diolchaf i’r Prif Ysgrifennydd am roi hyn ger ein bron ac fe’i sicrhaf o gefnogaeth lawn Plaid Cymru—The Party of Wales wrth fwrw ymlaen â’r agenda hon.
Alun Michael The First Secretary spoken in English p. 45
Alun Michael Y Prif Ysgrifennydd siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 45
I am grateful for that positive response. I also respond as positively to young people’s involvement from the beginning so that they are not merely consulted on the outcome. The taskforce must first consider what wider consultation will be necessary beyond their membership, perhaps in relation to youth organisations across Wales and certainly in relation to young people across Wales. Helen Mary’s point is in line with what I would want to see happening. I can say ‘yes’ to the suggestion. It can be built in and I will draw that comment to the attention of the group when they meet for the first time. The whole Assembly can be involved in the development of Young Voice/Llais Ifanc. The point of using that as an avenue is that you do not have to have a group of young people chosen to comment on their support needs. Young people will be able to make contributions and suggestions through youth clubs, cyber cafés and individual access in schools and colleges. These will feed in to the work of the taskgroup, the Committee and the Assembly as a whole.
Yr wyf yn ddiolchgar am yr ymateb cadarnhaol hwnnw. Atebaf finnau’n gadarnhaol i gynnwys pobl ifanc o’r dechrau fel y gwneir mwy nag ond ymgynghori â hwy ar y canlyniad. Rhaid i’r tasglu ystyried yn gyntaf pa ymgynghori ehangach fydd yn angenrheidiol y tu allan i’w haelodaeth, efallai mewn perthynas â mudiadau ieuenctid ledled Cymru ac yn sicr mewn perthynas â phobl ifanc ledled Cymru. Mae pwynt Helen Mary yn gyson â’r hyn yr wyf am ei weld yn digwydd. Gallaf ddweud ‘ie’ i’r awgrym. Gellir ei gynnwys a thynnaf hynny i sylw’r grŵp pan gyfarfyddant am y tro cyntaf. Gall y Cynulliad cyfan gymryd rhan wrth ddatblygu Young Voice/Llais Ifanc. Pwrpas defnyddio hynny fel cyfrwng yw nad oes raid dewis grŵp o bobl ifanc i roi sylwadau ar eu hanghenion cefnogi. Bydd pobl ifanc yn gallu gwneud cyfraniadau ac awgrymiadau drwy glybiau ieuenctid, seibergaffis a mynediad unigol mewn ysgolion a cholegau. Bydd y rhain yn porthi gwaith y tasglu, y Pwyllgor a’r Cynulliad fel cyfangorff.
I welcome the statement on behalf of the Welsh Conservative Party, particularly in light of recent opinion polls conducted among groups of young people. These were reported widely, not least in the Wales on Sunday, and reflected badly on the administration, particularly the First Secretary. Any move towards bringing young people into the political process is welcome. We have a great deal to convey to young people and much can be done to enable us to work together. We have interests and mutual concerns. Any strategy to encourage young people is a welcome step forward. We should target schools at the earliest opportunity so that we can break through the apathy that tends to exist among young people, particularly those over 16. We need to reach young people in the early stages of their school lives, encourage them and explain that our actions and decisions in the Assembly affect their lives. Schools can be a useful avenue to do that.
Croesawaf y datganiad ar ran Plaid Geidwadol Cymru, yn enwedig yng ngoleuni polau piniwn diweddar a gynhaliwyd ymysg grwpiau o bobl ifanc. Rhoddwyd sylw eang iddynt, nid lleiaf yn y Wales on Sunday, ac maent yn adlewyrchu’n wael ar y weinyddiaeth, yn enwedig y Prif Ysgrifennydd. Mae unrhyw gamau i ddod â phobl ifanc i’r broses wleidyddol i’w croesawu. Mae gennym lawer iawn i’w gyfleu i bobl ifanc a gellir gwneud llawer i’n galluogi i gydweithio. Mae gennym ddiddordebau a phryderon cyffredin. Mae unrhyw strategaeth i gefnogi pobl ifanc yn gam ymlaen i’w groesawu. Dylem dargedu ysgolion ar y cyfle cyntaf fel y gallwn dorri drwy’r difrawder sydd yn dueddol o fod ymysg pobl ifanc, yn enwedig rhai dros 16. Mae angen inni gyrraedd pobl ifanc yn y cyfnodau cynnar yn eu bywydau ysgol, eu cefnogi ac egluro bod ein gweithredoedd a’n penderfyniadau yn y Cynulliad yn effeithio ar eu bywydau. Gall ysgolion fod yn gyfrwng defnyddiol i wneud hynny.
A recent local example of bringing young people together in Cardiff happened through the Prince’s Trust, which is in the process of establishing an environmental forum to discuss issues relating to the environment and how the Assembly’s decisions impact upon the environment of Cardiff and south Wales. Through the voluntary sector and, as the statement indicates, the Prince’s Trust, there is much that we can do. My concern is that any strategy that we put together achieves something. It is easy to write a strategy, set up a committee or put a team of expert advisers together. Initiatives such as this can be worthy but lead nowhere if they are not backed up by a clearly defined strategy that is based on clear principles and backed up with resources. Apart from the obvious woolliness of the statement, I welcome the initiative and the moves that it will create.
Digwyddodd enghraifft leol ddiweddar o ddod â phobl ifanc at ei gilydd yng Nghaerdydd drwy Ymddiriedolaeth y Tywysog, sydd ar ganol sefydlu fforwm amgylcheddol i drafod materion sydd yn ymwneud â’r amgylchedd a’r modd y mae penderfyniadau’r Cynulliad yn dylanwadu ar amgylchedd Caerdydd a de Cymru. Drwy’r sector gwirfoddol ac, fel y noda’r datganiad, drwy Ymddiriedolaeth y Tywysog, mae llawer y gallwn ei wneud. Yr hyn sydd o bwys i mi yw bod unrhyw strategaeth a luniwn yn cyflawni rhywbeth. Hawdd yw ysgrifennu strategaeth, sefydlu pwyllgor neu gynnull tîm o ymgynghorwyr arbenigol. Gall mentrau fel hyn fod yn deilwng ond maent yn arwain i unman os nad ategir hwy â strategaeth bendant sydd yn seiliedig ar egwyddorion eglur gydag adnoddau i’w chynnal. Heblaw am wlanogrwydd amlwg y datganiad, croesawaf y fenter a’r camau y bydd yn eu creu.
Alun Michael The First Secretary spoken in English p. 46
Alun Michael Y Prif Ysgrifennydd siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 46
You could not resist that last comment, could you, Jonathan? In relation to that challenge, I make it clear that we are not only concerned with writing a strategy but with delivering it in practice. I welcome the overall positive response that you have given. There are plenty of reports that have disappeared over time but others have made a significant impact, usually over 10 years because things do not happen instantly or quickly. I refer to reports such as the Albermarle report on youth and community in the 1970s but there are other staging posts throughout the history of the youth service. Reports have nearly always been effective because of two factors. First, there has been a commitment to design and deliver a strategy. That is our commitment. Secondly, the reports have given those who work with young people and who have direct experience of young people’s needs a direct feed-in to the development of the strategy. Those two factors are in place.
Nid oeddech yn gallu peidio â gwneud y sylw diwethaf hwnnw, onid oeddech, Jonathan? Mewn perthynas â’r her honno, rhoddaf ar ddeall ein bod yn ymwneud nid yn unig ag ysgrifennu strategaeth ond â’i chyflawni’n ymarferol hefyd. Croesawaf yr ymateb cadarnhaol cyffredinol a roesoch. Ceir toreth o adroddiadau a ddiflannodd dros amser ond cafodd eraill effaith sylweddol, dros 10 mlynedd fel arfer oherwydd nid yw pethau’n digwydd ar unwaith neu’n gyflym. Cyfeiriaf adroddiadau megis adroddiad Albermarle ar ieuenctid a chymuned yn y 1970au ond mae mannau aros eraill ar hyd y daith yn hanes y gwasanaeth ieuenctid. Bu adroddiadau bron bob amser yn effeithiol oherwydd dau ffactor. Yn gyntaf, bu ymrwymiad i gynllunio a chyflenwi strategaeth. Dyna’n hymrwymiad ni. Yn ail, mae’r adroddiadau wedi rhoi cyfle i’r rhai sydd yn gweithio gyda phobl ifanc ac sydd â phrofiad uniongyrchol o anghenion pobl ifanc gyfrannu’n uniongyrchol i ddatblygiad y strategaeth. Mae’r ddau ffactor hynny yn bod.
There is a crying need for a new strategy, so this is timely for us in Wales. There has been a gap for a few years, and this is a great opportunity. I agree with the point about engaging schools, although it must not only be schools, because those outside school and those older than 16 who are in colleges and workplaces need to be engaged as well. There is apathy sometimes but, in the development of youth action groups for example, I have seen tremendous enthusiasm on the part of young people when they are asked to confront problems and how they might design solutions. You get involved in their actions. That has happened at Dŵr-y-Felin school in Neath, which is one of the most brilliant examples in the UK. Another example is the Holyhead comprehensive school. I have also seen a project in Wrexham and there are other examples in other parts of Wales.
Mae taer angen am strategaeth newydd, felly mae hyn yn amserol i ni yng Nghymru. Bu bwlch am ychydig o flynyddoedd, ac mae hwn yn gyfle mawr. Cytunaf â’r pwynt am gysylltu ag ysgolion, er na ddylid gwneud hynny ag ysgolion yn unig, oherwydd mae angen cysylltu hefyd â’r rhai y tu allan i’r ysgol a’r rhai sydd yn hŷn na 16 sydd mewn colegau a gweithleoedd. Mae difrawder weithiau ond, wrth ddatblygu grwpiau gweithredu ieuenctid er enghraifft, gwelais frwdfrydedd aruthrol ar ran pobl ifanc pan ofynnir iddynt wynebu problemau ac ystyried sut y gallent lunio atebion. Yr ydych yn mynd ynghlwm yn eu gweithredoedd. Digwyddodd hynny yn ysgol Dŵr-y-Felin yng Nghastell-nedd, sydd yn un o’r enghreifftiau mwyaf disglair yn y DU. Enghraifft arall yw’r ysgol gyfun yng Nghaergybi. Gwelais hefyd brosiect yn Wrecsam ac mae enghreifftiau eraill mewn rhannau eraill o Gymru.
I agree with the point about the Prince’s Trust. I refer in passing to its work as I have a personal interest in its development, having been the first secretary of the Trust in Wales. One exciting thing about the Trust, compared with other organisations, is the way that it continues to be innovative, year after year. I endorse the point of engaging with and learning from the lessons of those innovations.
Cytunaf â’r pwynt am Ymddiriedolaeth y Tywysog. Cyfeiriaf wrth fynd heibio at ei gwaith gan fod gennyf ddiddordeb personol yn ei ddatblygiad, a minnau wedi bod yn ysgrifennydd cyntaf yr Ymddiriedolaeth yng Nghymru. Un peth cyffrous ynghylch yr Ymddiriedolaeth, o’i chymharu â mudiadau eraill, yw’r modd y mae’n parhau i arloesi, flwyddyn ar ôl blwyddyn. Ategaf y pwynt ynghylch cysylltu â a dysgu o wersi’r mentrau hynny.
I feel as if I am at risk of joining in the Learning and Skills Bill admiration society. However, I must welcome the freedom that this Bill gives us. It justifies the Assembly’s existence. The primary legislation is in place but secondary legislation and minor details are down to us. I welcome the fact that we will consult with young people and those who work in the statutory and voluntary sectors. As a member of the Post-16 Education and Training Committee, I am aware of the disappointment that some people involved with disabled groups in the voluntary sector felt with the Education and Training Action Group process because, although they put forward written proposals, they did not make an oral presentation to us. There is some disquiet about these proposals on supporting young people, but they feel that disaffected young people are being targeted a great deal in this Bill. Could you look at the list of people that you have agreed to include in your professional group, and consider whether to include an extra person to represent disabled groups such as the blind or the deaf? After all, they have additional special needs and there is a risk of disabled young people, as well as the able-bodied, becoming disaffected.
Teimlaf fod perygl imi ymuno â chymdeithas edmygu’r Mesur Dysgu a Medrau. Fodd bynnag, rhaid imi groesawu’r rhyddid y mae’r Mesur hwn yn ei roi i ni. Mae’n cyfiawnhau bodolaeth y Cynulliad. Mae’r ddeddfwriaeth sylfaenol yn ei lle ond mae’r ddeddfwriaeth eilaidd a’r mân fanylion yn faterion i ni. Croesawaf y ffaith y byddwn yn ymgynghori â phobl ifanc a’r rhai sydd yn gweithio yn y sectorau statudol a gwirfoddol. Fel aelod o’r Pwyllgor Addysg a Hyfforddiant Ôl-16, yr wyf yn ymwybodol o’r siom a deimlwyd gan rai pobl sydd yn gysylltiedig â grwpiau anabl yn y sector gwirfoddol ynghylch proses y Grŵp Gweithredu Addysg a Hyfforddiant oherwydd, er eu bod wedi cyflwyno cynigion ysgrifenedig, ni roesant gyflwyniad llafar i ni. Mae rhywfaint o anesmwythyd ynghylch y cynigion hyn ar gefnogi pobl ifanc, ond maent yn teimlo bod pobl ifanc anniddig yn cael eu targedu i raddau helaeth yn y Mesur. A allech edrych ar y rhestr o’r bobl y cytunasoch i’w cynnwys yn eich grŵp proffesiynol, ac ystyried cynnwys rhywun ychwanegol i gynrychioli grwpiau anabl fel y deillion neu bobl fyddar? Wedi’r cwbl, mae ganddynt hwy anghenion arbennig ychwanegol ac mae perygl y bydd pobl ifanc anabl, yn ogystal â’r rhai abl o gorff, yn cael eu dieithrio.
Alun Michael The First Secretary spoken in English p. 48
Alun Michael Y Prif Ysgrifennydd siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 48
Those were helpful comments. First, as far as ETAG is concerned, there is much work to be taken forward. ETAG has been proposed as an item for discussion in the next meeting of the voluntary sector partnership council. The Post-16 Education and Training Committee has carried out a serious piece of work that has greatly improved the proposals. As I indicated in my earlier reply to Helen Mary, as far as disabled people are concerned we suggest that, rather than trying to get every organisation represented, we look at how different groupings of people, organisations and individuals might make a contribution. I am certain that one group that should feed in suggestions should be those working with disabled young people and disabled young people themselves. I am certain that a clear voice will be heard from that quarter. That can be accommodated. If there is a need to review the membership of the group, that is fair enough. The difficulty is trying to get the right sort of representation. We felt that there should be a representation of an equality organisation. That is why Race Equality First is included, so that equality issues are taken into account in the work of the taskforce. I am not closing any doors in making that response.
Yr oedd y sylwadau hynny o gymorth. Yn gyntaf, ynghylch y Grŵp Gweithredu Addysg a Hyfforddiant, mae llawer o waith i fwrw ymlaen ag ef. Cynigiwyd y Grŵp fel eitem i’w thrafod yng nghyfarfod nesaf cyngor partneriaeth y sector gwirfoddol. Mae’r Pwyllgor Addysg a Hyfforddiant Ôl-16 wedi cyflawni darn cydwybodol o waith sydd wedi gwella’r cynigion yn fawr. Fel y nodais yn fy ymateb cynharach i Helen Mary, mewn cysylltiad â phobl anabl awgrymwn, yn hytrach na cheisio cael cynrychiolaeth o bob mudiad, y dylem edrych ar y modd y gallai gwahanol grwpiau o bobl, mudiadau ac unigolion wneud cyfraniad. Yr wyf yn sicr mai un grŵp a ddylai gyfrannu awgrymiadau yw’r rhai sydd yn gweithio â phobl ifanc anabl a phobl ifanc anabl eu hunain. Yr wyf yn sicr y clywir llais eglur o’r cylch hwnnw. Gellir cynnwys hynny. Os oes angen adolygu aelodaeth y grŵp, mae hynny’n ddigon teg. Yr anhawster yw ceisio cael y math iawn o gynrychiolaeth. Teimlasom y dylid cael cynrychiolaeth o fudiad cydraddoldeb. Dyna pam y cynhwysir Race Equality First, fel y gellir rhoi ystyriaeth i faterion cydraddoldeb yng ngwaith y gweithlu. Nid wyf yn cau unrhyw ddrysau wrth roi’r ymateb hwnnw.
I am pleased that you said that the Learning and Skills Bill justifies the Assembly’s existence. The Assembly will take a number of years to develop. It was interesting to listen to the Cabinet Secretary for the speaking at the Cardiff Business Club yesterday. He said that a new institution takes time to grow and that the perspective of five or perhaps 10 years is the one on which to judge it. We will be judged on how we achieve change by using the powers available to us, changing legislation in a way that gives us more freedom. I feel pleased that we have been able to do that on this occasion. It is an example of our being able to take action in a way that enables the Assembly’s work to go ahead. I hope it will be one example of many.
Yr wyf yn falch ichi ddweud bod y Mesur Dysgu a Medrau yn cyfiawnhau bodolaeth y Cynulliad. Bydd angen nifer o flynyddoedd i’r Cynulliad ddatblygu. Yr oedd yn ddifyr gwrando ar yr Ysgrifennydd Cabinet yn siarad yng Nghlwb Busnes Caerdydd ddoe. Dywedodd fod rhaid wrth amser i sefydliad newydd dyfu ac mai o berspectif o bump neu efallai 10 mlynedd y dylid ei farnu. Byddwn yn cael ein barnu ar modd y byddwn yn sicrhau newid drwy ddefnyddio’r pwerau sydd ar gael i ni, newid deddfwriaeth mewn modd sydd yn rhoi mwy o ryddid i ni. Yr wyf yn falch inni allu gwneud hynny ar yr achlysur hwn. Mae’n enghraifft o’n gallu ni i weithredu mewn modd sydd yn galluogi gwaith y Cynulliad i fynd ymlaen. Gobeithiaf mai dim ond un enghraifft ymhlith nifer yw hyn.
On behalf of Welsh Labour, the true party of Wales, I welcome this initiative. As a constituency AM, I will be encouraging young people from the Penarth Youth Project, in which you also have an interest, to participate in this process. I know from my involvement with the project that if we give young people a real say and a real stake in their future, they will respond positively and imaginatively. I welcome this initiative on behalf of the Labour Group.
Ar ran Llafur Cymru, gwir blaid Cymru, croesawaf y fenter hon. Fel Aelod Cynulliad dros etholaeth, byddaf yn annog pobl ifanc o Brosiect Ieuenctid Penarth, y mae gennych chithau ddiddordeb ynddo, i gymryd rhan yn y broses hon. Gwn o’r rhan a gymerais yn y prosiect y bydd pobl ifanc, os rhoddir llais gwirioneddol a chyfran wirioneddol iddynt yn eu dyfodol, yn ymateb yn gadarnhaol ac yn ddyfeisgar. Croesawaf y fenter hon ar ran y Grŵp Llafur.
Alun Michael The First Secretary spoken in English p. 49
Alun Michael Y Prif Ysgrifennydd siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 49
I encourage Assembly Members to do the same. I know the Penarth Youth Project’s new shopfront facility where computers are available for young people to use. They can use the facilities that will be available through Young Voice/Llais Ifanc to make an input. When visiting projects throughout Wales, I am impressed with the extent to which computers are becoming available in a variety of ways through schools, libraries, youth projects and colleges. I urge Assembly Members to encourage youngsters of all sorts to take part in this consultation and to make their responses known.
Anogaf Aelodau’r Cynulliad i wneud yr un fath. Gwn am gyfleuster blaen siop newydd Prosiect Ieuenctid Penarth lle y mae cyfrifiaduron ar gael i’w defnyddio gan bobl ifanc. Gallant ddefnyddio’r cyfleusterau a fydd ar gael drwy Young Voice/Llais Newydd i wneud cyfraniad. Pan ymwelaf â phrosiectau ledled Cymru, gwneir argraff arnaf gan y graddau y maent cyfrifiaduron yn dechrau bod ar gael mewn amryw o ffyrdd drwy ysgolion, llyfrgelloedd, prosiectau ieuenctid a cholegau. Pwysaf ar Aelodau’r Cynulliad i annog pobl ifanc o bob math i gymryd rhan yn yr ymgynghoriad hwn a lleisio eu hymateb.
Datganiad Busnes
Business Statement
Andrew Davies The Business Secretary spoken in English p. 49
Andrew Davies Y Trefnydd siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 49
Before I turn to the business for the next three weeks’, I would like to inform you of an additional item of business tomorrow. I have scheduled time tomorrow to approve the amendment to Standing Order No. 26 which refers to the establishment of the Planning Decision Committee and which has cross-party support. The First Secretary will also make a report in Plenary tomorrow on the first meeting of the British-Irish Council, which took place just before Christmas.
Cyn imi droi at fusnes y tair wythnos nesaf, hoffwn eich hysbysu am eitem fusnes ychwanegol yfory. Trefnais amser yfory i gymeradwyo’r gwelliant i Reol Sefydlog Rhif 26 sydd yn cyfeirio at sefydlu’r Pwyllgor Penderfyniadau Cynllunio ac y mae iddo gefnogaeth drawsbleidiol. Bydd y Prif Ysgrifennydd hefyd yn rhoi adroddiad yn y Cyfarfod Llawn yfory ar gyfarfod cyntaf Cyngor Prydain-Iwerddon, a ddigwyddodd yn union cyn y Nadolig.
Business for next week has been changed. On Tuesday 25 January, the Finance Secretary will make a statement on the millennium bug. There will also be a debate on the Chief Medical Officer’s report followed by a debate on the third Transfer of Functions Order. On Wednesday 26 January, there will be debates on the new Assembly building and a motion to approve two items of subordinate legislation, the Water Undertakers (Rateable Values) (Wales) Order 2000 and the British Gas plc (Rateable Value) (Wales) Order 2000 and a motion to approve our own Assembly guidance. I have deferred the debate on the Education and Training Action Group report until Tuesday 1 February to accommodate the views of the Economic Development Committee, which will be discussing the report in its meeting on 26 January. Business on Wednesday 2 February is as I reported in the last session and will include a debate on the Administration’s response to the debate on the Westminster Government’s legislative programme. On Tuesday 8 February, the Assembly will be asked to ratify the Assembly budget and to note the local government settlement. On Wednesday 9 February, there will be debate on transport, focusing on an integrated transport policy and its implementation in Wales. Arrangements will be made after today’s Plenary to post this statement onto the intranet and the internet.
Newidiwyd y busnes ar gyfer yr wythnos nesaf. Ddydd Mawrth 25 Ionawr, bydd yr Ysgrifennydd Cyllid yn gwneud datganiad ar fyg y mileniwm. Bydd dadl hefyd ar adroddiad y Prif Swyddog Meddygol a dadl ar ôl hynny ar y trydydd Gorchymyn Trosglwyddo Swyddogaethau. Ddydd Mercher 26 Ionawr, bydd dadleuon ar adeilad newydd y Cynulliad a chynnig i gymeradwyo dwy eitem o is-ddeddfwriaeth, Gorchymyn Ymgymerwyr Dŵr (Gwerthoedd Trethiannol) (Cymru) 2000 a Gorchymyn Nwy Prydain ccc (Gwerth Ardrethol) (Cymru) 2000 a chynnig i gymeradwyo ein harweiniad Cynulliad ein hunain. Gohiriais y ddadl ar adroddiad y Grŵp Gweithredu Addysg a Hyfforddiant tan ddydd Mawrth 1 Chwefror er mwyn cynnwys barn y Pwyllgor Datblygu Economaidd, a fydd yn trafod yr adroddiad yn ei gyfarfod ar 26 Ionawr. Mae’r busnes ddydd Mercher 2 Chwefror fel y’i hadroddais yn y Cyfarfod diwethaf a bydd yn cynnwys dadl ar ymateb y Weinyddiaeth i’r ddadl ar raglen ddeddfwriaethol Llywodraeth San Steffan. Ddydd Mawrth 8 Chwefror, gofynnir i’r Cynulliad gadarnhau cyllideb y Cynulliad a nodi’r setliad llywodraeth leol. Ddydd Mercher 9 Chwefror, bydd dadl ar drafnidiaeth, gan ganolbwyntio ar bolisi trafnidiaeth integredig a’i weithrediad yng Nghymru. Gwneir trefniadau ar ôl y Cyfarfod Llawn heddiw i osod y datganiad hwn ar y fewnrwyd a’r rhyngrwyd.
Finally, I wish to inform you that, following the Business Committee meeting this morning, the Deputy Presiding Officer has determined, in accordance with Standing Order No. 22.5, that the following draft Orders need not be considered by a Subject Committee: the National Park Authorities (Levies) (Wales) (Amendment) Regulations 2000, the Community Health Councils Amendment (Wales) Regulations 2000 and the Revenue Support Grant (Specified Bodies) (Wales) Regulations 2000.
Yn olaf, dymunaf eich hysbysu bod y Dirprwy Lywydd, yn dilyn cyfarfod y Pwyllgor Busnes, y bore yma, wedi penderfynu, yn unol â Rheol Sefydlog Rhif 22.5, nad oes angen i’r Gorchmynion drafft canlynol gael eu hystyried gan Bwyllgor Pwnc: Rheoliadau’r Awdurdodau Parc Cenedlaethol (Ardollau) (Cymru) (Diwygio) 2000, Rheoliadau’r Cynghorau Iechyd Cymdeithas Diwygio (Cymru) 2000 a Rheoliadau Grant Cynnal Refeniw (Cyrff Penodedig) (Cymru) 2000.
I will make some brief comments on behalf of Plaid Cymru—The Party of Wales, because we are disappointed that the debate on local government settlement is to be held on the same day as that on the budget. I understand, Andrew, that you consider it technically difficult to hold that debate the week before, but given that the other opposition parties supported us in this, it is a shame that this important debate may be overshadowed by the machinations around the budget debate. Therefore I ask you to reconsider. There is also still no sign of the debate on the Nantygwyddon public inquiry and I ask you formally to give this item your serious consideration in line with your previous promises to me.
Gwnaf rai sylwadau byr ar ran Plaid Cymru—The Party of Wales, oherwydd yr ydym yn siomedig bod y ddadl ar y setliad llywodraeth leol i’w chynnal ar yr un diwrnod â honno ar y gyllideb. Deallaf, Andrew, eich bod yn ei hystyried yn dechnegol anodd cynnal y ddadl honno’r wythnos gynt, ond gan fod pleidiau eraill yr wrthblaid wedi ein cefnogi ar hyn, mae’n drueni y bydd y ddadl bwysig hon o bosibl yn cael ei thaflu i’r cysgod gan y cynllwynion ynghylch y ddadl ar y gyllideb. Felly gofynnaf ichi ailystyried. Yn ogystal, nid oes arwydd o hyd o’r ddadl ar ymchwiliad cyhoeddus Nantygwyddon a gofynnaf yn ffurfiol ichi roi ystyriaeth ddifrifol i’r eitem hon yn unol â’ch addewidion blaenorol imi.
Finally, there is still insufficient detail in the description of the debates mentioned in the business statement. It is important that members of the public know what the topics of our debates are, otherwise we will be in breach of our human rights obligation. I have raised this point several times. I would like us to return to the procedure whereby a short paragraph of explanation is placed alongside the title of the debate. However, given that you appear to have enough problems on your plate, the Plaid Cymru group will not vote down the business statement this week.
Yn olaf, nid oes digon o fanylion o hyd yn y disgrifiad o’r dadleuon a grybwyllir yn y datganiad busnes. Mae’n bwysig bod aelodau’r cyhoedd yn gwybod beth yw pynciau ein dadleuon, neu fel arall byddwn yn torri ein rhwymedigaeth hawliau dynol. Yr wyf wedi codi’r pwynt hwn sawl gwaith. Hoffwn ein gweld yn mynd yn ôl at y weithdrefn lle y rhoddir paragraff byr o eglurhad ochr yn ochr â theitl y ddadl. Fodd bynnag, o dderbyn ei bod yn ymddangos bod gennych ddigon o broblemau ar eich plât, ni fydd grŵp Plaid Cymru’n pleidleisio yn erbyn y datganiad busnes yr wythnos hon.
Thank you, Jocelyn, for your, as always, helpful suggestions. In the Business Committee this morning I presented a paper outlining the difficulties of having the debate on the local government settlement on the same day as that on the budget. This paper was a report by officials on the timetable involved in the consultation on the proposed local government settlement and the difficulties that would be created in having the debates separated by a week. So the Business Committee has considered this.
Diolch, Jocelyn, am eich awgrymiadau, sydd bob amser o gymorth. Yn y Pwyllgor Busnes y bore yma cyflwynais bapur a oedd yn amlinellu’r anawsterau o gael dadl ar y setliad llywodraeth leol ar yr un diwrnod â honno ar y gyllideb. Yr oedd y papur hwn yn adroddiad gan swyddogion ar yr amserlen sydd yn gysylltiedig â’r ymgynghoriad ar y setliad llywodraeth leol arfaethedig a’r anawsterau a gâi eu creu wrth gael y dadleuon wythnos ar wahân. Felly mae’r Pwyllgor Busnes wedi ystyried hyn.
On the Nantygwyddon issue, as I reported in the Business Committee meeting, I understand that there have been discussions between the First Secretary and Rhondda Cynon Taff County Borough Council over many months, and latterly between him and the acting leader of Plaid Cymru. Although I was in a position to report to the Business Committee, I am still not in a position to report in Plenary on the result of those negotiations and discussions. However, I am mindful of the need—and I have said this before—to table a discussion if those negotiations are not resolved.
Ynglŷn â mater Nantygwyddon, fel yr adroddais yng nghyfarfod y Pwyllgor Busnes, deallaf fod trafodaethau wedi bod rhwng y Prif Ysgrifennydd a Chyngor Bwrdeistref Sirol Rhondda Cynon Taf dros lawer o fisoedd, ac yn ddiweddar rhyngddo ef ac arweinydd dros dro Plaid Cymru. Er fy mod mewn sefyllfa i adrodd i’r Pwyllgor Busnes, nid wyf eto mewn sefyllfa i adrodd yn y Cyfarfod Llawn am ganlyniad y negodi a’r trafodaethau hynny. Fodd bynnag, yr wyf yn ymwybodol o’r angen—a dywedais hyn o’r blaen—i gyflwyno trafodaeth os na cheir ateb o’r negodi.
On the question of there being insufficient detail in the business statement, as reported in the Business Committee, I accept that charge fully. Unfortunately, due to pressure of work, officials were unable to change the wording of the business statement substantially between the time of the Business Committee this morning and the Plenary this afternoon. However, those comments have been noted and future business statements will be more user-friendly and, I hope, more informative.
Ynghylch y cwestiwn o fanylion annigonol yn y datganiad busnes, fel yr adroddais yn y Pwyllgor Busnes, derbyniaf y cyhuddiad hwnnw’n llawn. Yn anffodus, oherwydd pwysau gwaith, nid oedd y swyddogion yn gallu newid geiriad y datganiad busnes yn sylweddol rhwng amser y Pwyllgor Busnes y bore yma a’r Cyfarfod Llawn y prynhawn yma. Fodd bynnag, nodwyd y sylwadau hynny a bydd y datganiadau busnes yn y dyfodol yn fwy hwylus a, gobeithiaf, yn cynnwys mwy o wybodaeth.
Cynhwysiant Cymdeithasol: Cynnydd ar y Cynllun Gweithredu Drafft
Social Inclusion: Progress on the Draft Action Plan
Dafydd Elis-Thomas The Presiding Officer spoken in English p. 52
Dafydd Elis-Thomas Y Llywydd siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 52
As well as this debate on social exclusion there will be a short debate, for which time must be protected, and a debate on legislation which will be substantial. I therefore restrict contributions to this debate to three minutes.
Yn ogystal â’r ddadl hon ar allgáu cymdeithasol bydd dadl fer, y mae’n rhaid cadw amser ar ei chyfer, a dadl ar ddeddfwriaeth a fydd yn sylweddol. Felly cyfyngaf y cyfraniadau yn y ddadl hon i dair munud.
I have selected the following amendments: amendments 1 and 4 in the name of David Melding, amendments 2 and 3 in the name of Helen Mary Jones and amendments 5 and 6 in the name of Kirsty Williams.
Yr wyf wedi dethol y gwelliannau canlynol: gwelliannau 1 a 4 yn enw David Melding, gwelliannau 2 a 3 yn enw Helen Mary Jones a gwelliannau 5 a 6 yn enw Kirsty Williams.
Jane Hutt The Secretary for Health and Social Services spoken in English p. 52
Jane Hutt Yr Ysgrifennydd Iechyd a Gwasanaethau Cymdeithasol siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 52
I propose that
Cynigiaf fod
Jane Hutt The Secretary for Health and Social Services (continued) spoken in English p. 52
Jane Hutt Yr Ysgrifennydd Iechyd a Gwasanaethau Cymdeithasol (parhad) siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 52
This is actually a debate on social inclusion, not social exclusion. Our first full debate of the millennium is on social inclusion. That is an important message to convey.
Mae hon yn ddadl ar gynhwysiant cymdeithasol, mewn gwirionedd, nid allgáu cymdeithasol. Mae ein dadl lawn gyntaf yn y mileniwm ar gynhwysiant cymdeithasol. Mae honno’n neges bwysig i’w chyfleu.
There is a growing sense of hope, confidence and opportunity in Wales as a result of devolution and the establishment of the Assembly. Many of us who have been involved in political and community action for decades, feel that the time has come for us to make a difference. We must grasp this opportunity. The real test is whether we will make a difference to the health, wellbeing and confidence of the people of Wales. That requires a concerted campaign to tackle poverty and inequality.
Mae ymdeimlad cynyddol o obaith, hyder a chyfle yng Nghymru o ganlyniad i ddatganoli a sefydlu’r Cynulliad. Mae llawer ohonom sydd yn gysylltiedig â gweithredu gwleidyddol a chymunedol ers degawdau, yn teimlo bod yr amser wedi dod inni wneud gwahaniaeth. Rhaid inni afael yn y cyfle hwn. Y prawf gwirioneddol yw a fyddwn yn gwneud gwahaniaeth i iechyd, lles a hyder pobl Cymru. Mae hynny’n gofyn ymgyrch ar y cyd i ymdrin â thlodi ac anghydraddoldeb.
Our real challenge in building this new Government for Wales is to tackle the poverty and social exclusion that has blighted lives and communities in Wales, making it one of the poorest nations in Europe. Social exclusion has also created huge inequalities of health and wellbeing between those living in towns and those living in valleys and rural areas, and between those in private and public housing estates. Those inequalities are not only unacceptable, but socially and morally unjust and economically disastrous, resulting in areas of Wales in which 60 per cent of households with children do not have anyone earning money. That compares to an average of 18 per cent. Wales is a nation of ‘haves’ and ‘have nots’. That is spelt out in the statistics in ‘Mapping Social Exclusion’, which we considered last year in our debate on social inclusion soon after we took office.
Yr her wirioneddol i ni wrth adeiladu’r Llywodraeth newydd hon i Gymru yw ymdrin â’r tlodi a’r allgáu cymdeithasol sydd wedi andwyo bywydau a chymunedau yng Nghymru, gan ei gwneud yn un o’r gwledydd tlotaf yn Ewrop. Mae allgáu cymdeithasol hefyd wedi creu anghydraddoldebau aruthrol o ran iechyd a lles rhwng y rhai sydd yn byw mewn trefi a’r rhai sydd yn byw mewn cymoedd ac ardaloedd gwledig, a rhwng y rhai mewn stadau tai preifat a chyhoeddus. Yn ogystal â bod yn annerbyniol, mae’r anghydraddoldebau hynny’n gymdeithasol ac yn foesol anghyfiawn ac yn drychinebus yn economaidd, gan arwain at greu ardaloedd o Gymru lle y ceir 60 y cant o deuluoedd â phlant sydd heb unrhywun yn ennill arian. Mae hynny o’i gymharu â chyfartaledd o 18 y cant. Mae Cymru’n genedl o rai sydd â digon a rhai sydd heb ddim. Amlygir hynny yn yr ystadegau yn ‘Mapping Social Exclusion’, a ystyriwyd gennym y llynedd yn ein dadl ar gynhwysiant cymdeithasol yn fuan wedi inni ddod i rym.
How are we approaching this in developing a social inclusion action plan for the Assembly? This is about what we do and how we do it. We know that short-term initiatives have been attempted in the past and have been unsuccessful in reversing the decline. We must move forward to a sustained integrated programme of action designed to tackle the problems identified by, and with, the most excluded communities. That will mean harnessing the resources of all the Assembly’s agencies, and those that we fund, and redistributing them in a way that deals with specific problems and becomes instrumental in achieving long-term sustainability.
Sut yr ydym yn ymdrin â hyn wrth ddatblygu cynllun gweithredu cynhwysiant cymdeithasol i’r Cynulliad? Mae a wnelo hynny â’r hyn a wnawn a’r modd y’i gwnawn. Gwyddom fod cynnig wedi ei roi ar fentrau tymor byr yn y gorffennol ac na lwyddasant i wrthdroi’r dirywiad. Rhaid inni symud ymlaen at raglen weithredu integredig barhaus er mwyn ymdrin â’r problemau a ddynodwyd gan, a chyda, y cymunedau mwyaf anghynwysedig. Bydd hynny’n golygu harneisio adnoddau holl asiantaethau’r Cynulliad, a’r rhai a ariennir gennym, a’u hailddosbarthu mewn modd sydd yn ymdrin â phroblemau penodol ac yn dod yn gyfrwng i sicrhau cynaliadwyedd tymor hir.
Economic regeneration and good quality, permanent jobs are the heart of successful sustainable communities. Other important action which can improve quality of life and create inclusion, will continue to be seen as just propping up communities unless we can ensure the long-term sustainability that economic regeneration will bring.
Adfywiad economaidd a swyddi parhaol o ansawdd da yw hanfod cymunedau cynaliadwy llwyddiannus. Mae camau pwysig eraill, sydd yn gallu gwella ansawdd bywyd a chreu cynhwysiant, y parheir i’w gweld yn rhai sydd yn cynnal breichiau cymunedau yn unig oni allwn sicrhau’r cynaliadwyedd tymor hir a ddaw gydag adfywiad economaidd.
The problems facing our most deprived communities have not occurred overnight. The decline has been constant over many years and we must recognise that there is no quick fix. In April last year, Tony Blair said that we would defeat child poverty within a generation. Will Hutton wrote that
Nid yw’r problemau sydd yn wynebu ein cymunedau mwyaf difreintiedig wedi digwydd dros nos. Bu’r dirywiad yn gyson dros lawer o flynyddoedd a rhaid inni gydnabod nad oes ateb sydyn. Ebrill y llynedd, dywedodd Tony Blair y byddem yn trechu tlodi plant o fewn cenhedlaeth. Ysgrifennodd Will Hutton
‘another war is being fought and the enemy is poverty’.
‘mae rhyfel arall yn cael ei ymladd a’r gelyn yw tlodi’.
That is the footing for our actions in the Assembly, which is why we seek widespread political support in this debate and a strengthening of our resolve through a wider understanding of all your perspectives. The outlined action plan identifies some of the work to be carried out to implement the Assembly’s objectives and to achieve joined-up action between programmes.
Dyna’r sylfaen ar gyfer ein gweithredoedd yn y Cynulliad, a dyna pam y ceisiwn gefnogaeth wleidyddol eang yn y ddadl hon ac atgyfnerthiad i’n penderfyniad drwy ddealltwriaeth ehangach o’ch holl safbwyntiau. Mae’r cynllun gweithredu bras yn dynodi rhywfaint o’r gwaith sydd i’w gyflawni er mwyn gweithredu amcanion y Cynulliad a sicrhau gweithredu cydgysylltiol rhwng rhaglenni.
The mapping exercise is being carried out to establish our baseline. For example, which Assembly policies and programmes impact on social inclusion? We will be able to highlight gaps in provision and overlaps and duplication in funding and action. That will enable us to target resources more effectively and identify the potential for a more focused joined-up approach. We must establish the wider baseline through the programmes of our Assembly sponsored public bodies.
Cyflawnir yr ymarfer mapio er mwyn pennu ein llinell sylfaen. Er enghraifft, pa bolisïau a rhaglenni o eiddo’r Cynulliad sydd yn effeithio ar gynhwysiant cymdeithasol? Byddwn yn gallu tynnu sylw at fylchau yn y ddarpariaeth a gorgyffwrdd a dyblygu mewn ariannu a gweithredu. Bydd hynny’n ein galluogi i dargedu adnoddau’n fwy effeithiol a chanfod y potensial ar gyfer dull gweithredu cydgysylltiol eglurach. Rhaid inni bennu’r llinell sylfaen ehangach drwy raglenni’r cyrff cyhoeddus a noddir gan y Cynulliad.
In our commitment to targeting resources more effectively, we support Kirsty Williams’s amendment 5, which notes the value of expanding opportunities for re-training and re-skilling, of improving the quality of the housing stock and of providing good quality early years’ education for three and four-year-olds. It also notes the value of the free eye tests that we provide to around 60 per cent of the people of Wales and free dental checks for all children under 18 and around 30 per cent of the adult population. There are financial implications to many of the ideas in this amendment as well as legal ones, which will require separate consideration.
Yn unol â’n hymrwymiad i dargedu adnoddau’n fwy effeithiol, cefnogwn welliant 5 Kirsty Williams, sydd yn nodi gwerth ehangu cyfleoedd ar gyfer ailhyfforddi a datblygu medrau newydd, gwella ansawdd y stoc dai a darparu addysg blynyddoedd cynnar o ansawdd da i rai tair a phedair oed. Mae hefyd yn nodi gwerth y profion llygaid am ddim a ddarparwn i tua 60 y cant o bobl Cymru ac archwiliadau deintyddol am ddim i’r holl blant dan 18 a thua 30 y cant o’r boblogaeth mewn oed. Mae goblygiadau ariannol i lawer o’r syniadau yn y gwelliant hwn yn ogystal â rhai cyfreithiol y bydd angen eu hystyried ar wahân.
We support Helen Mary Jones’s amendment 2, that substantial additional resources are necessary. We must consider carefully how resources are targeted. David Melding’s amendment proposes challenging targets for economic development and the improvement of public services. Kirsty Williams’s amendment 6, which calls for targets and milestones to be brought back to a future Plenary session, is welcomed, as is Helen Mary’s proposal in amendment 3 to instruct the Assembly’s Committees to monitor and review the plan.
Cefnogwn welliant 2 Helen Mary Jones sef bod angen adnoddau ychwanegol sylweddol. Rhaid inni ystyried yn ofalus sut y targedir adnoddau. Mae gwelliant David Melding yn cynnig targedau ymestynnol ar gyfer datblygu economaidd a gwella gwasanaethau cyhoeddus. Croesewir gwelliant 6 Kirsty Williams, sydd yn galw am ddwyn targedau a cherrig milltir gerbron Cyfarfod Llawn eto yn y dyfodol, a hefyd cynnig Helen Mary yng ngwelliant 3 i gyfarwyddo Pwyllgorau’r Cynulliad i fonitro ac adolygu’r cynllun.
So, yes, yes, yes to your amendments except David Melding’s amendment 1, to which we are saying no. On working with communities, I point out to Kirsty that there are nominations for a second round of the People in Communities programme and the closing date is 31 January. David’s amendment to replace the word ‘endorses’ with ‘notes’ dilutes the thrust of this motion and is therefore not supported. The action plan recognises the importance of strengthening networks both within and outside the Assembly. It is vital that we develop policy in a cross-cutting way and it is important, in spreading the message, to engage the people at the sharp end and their agents of change and those with the power and resources.
Felly, ie, ie, ie i’ch gwelliannau heblaw am welliant 1 David Melding, y dywedwn na wrtho. Ynglŷn â gweithio gyda chymunedau, tynnaf sylw Kirsty at y ffaith bod enwebiadau ar gyfer ail rownd o’r rhaglen Pobl mewn Cymunedau a bod y dyddiad cau ar 31 Ionawr. Mae gwelliant David i roi’r gair ‘nodi’ yn lle ‘cymeradwyo’ yn gwanhau byrdwn y cynnig hwn ac felly nis cefnogir. Mae’r cynllun gweithredu’n cydnabod pwysigrwydd cryfhau rhwydweithiau oddi mewn i’r Cynulliad a’r tu allan iddo. Mae’n holl bwysig inni ddatblygu polisi mewn modd trawsbynciol ac mae’n bwysig, wrth ledaenu’r neges, ein bod yn cysylltu’r bobl yn y pen blaen a’u cyfryngau newid â’r rhai sydd â’r pŵer a’r adnoddau.
There are obviously issues across all our policy initiatives that we need to talk about. All my responsibilities are geared towards tackling social exclusion. It is those links between ill-health and poverty that provide the steer in my health and social services portfolio. I also chair the Committee on Equality of Opportunity which has a clear remit under Standing Orders to ensure that the conduct of its business is based on
Mae’n amlwg bod materion ar draws ein holl fentrau polisi y mae angen inni eu trafod. Mae fy holl gyfrifoldebau wedi eu cyfeirio at ymdrin ag allgáu cymdeithasol. Y cysylltiadau hynny rhwng iechyd gwael a thlodi sydd yn rhoi’r cyfeiriad yn fy mhortffolio iechyd a gwasanaethau cymdeithasol. Yr wyf hefyd yn cadeirio’r Pwyllgor Cyfle Cyfartal sydd â chylch gwaith pendant o dan y Rheolau Sefydlog i sicrhau bod y modd y cynhelir ei fusnes yn seiliedig ar
‘the principle that there should be equality of opportunity for all people’.
‘egwyddor cyfle cyfartal ar gyfer pawb’.
Recognition of the links between discrimination and social exclusion must be at the heart of our agenda, as we take action to combat racism and to implement the findings of the Stephen Lawrence inquiry in Wales. Generally, people at the top of the social scale are healthier and less likely to suffer severe illness or premature death that those at the bottom. We must bring the health of those with the poorest health up to the level of those with the best of health.
Rhaid i gydnabyddiaeth o’r cysylltiadau rhwng gwahaniaethu ag allgáu cymdeithasol fod yn ganolog i’n hagenda, wrth inni weithredu i ymladd hiliaeth a gweithredu canfyddiadau ymchwiliad Stephen Lawrence yng Nghymru. Yn gyffredinol, mae rhai ar ben yr ysgol gymdeithasol yn iachach ac yn llai tebygol o ddioddef salwch difrifol neu farwolaeth gynamserol na’r rhai ar y gwaelod. Rhaid inni godi iechyd y rhai sydd â’r iechyd gwaethaf i lefel y rhai sydd â’r iechyd gorau.
I will touch briefly on our main policy planks. We are looking at health, education and economic development. I have already mentioned health. On education, disaffection with school and education can affect children irrespective of social class, some of whom are young people looked after by local authorities. Good educational opportunities are essential if our children are to have the best possible chance in life. Poor educational attainment so often leads to underachievement and marginalisation in later life. The Assembly is determined that the children of Wales will have those opportunities. Last September, the Assembly published guidance setting out a range of school-based actions to address pupil disaffection and to challenge behaviour difficulties that can often result in young people failing to make the most of their educational opportunities.
Cyfeiriaf yn fyr at ein prif elfennau polisi. Yr ydym yn edrych ar iechyd, addysg a datblygu economaidd. Soniais am iechyd eisoes. Ym maes addysg, gall anniddigrwydd â’r ysgol ac addysg effeithio ar blant beth bynnag fo’u dosbarth cymdeithasol, rhai ohonynt sydd yn bobl ifanc sydd yn derbyn gofal gan awdurdodau lleol. Mae cyfleoedd addysgol da yn hanfodol os yw ein plant i gael y cyfle gorau posibl mewn bywyd. Mae cyrhaeddiad addysgol gwael yn arwain yn aml at dangyrhaeddiad ac ymyleiddio yn ddiweddarach mewn bywyd. Mae’r Cynulliad yn benderfynol y bydd plant Cymru’n cael y cyfleoedd hynny. Fis Medi diwethaf, cyhoeddodd y Cynulliad arweiniad a oedd yn nodi amrediad o gamau ar sail ysgolion i ymdrin ag anniddigrwydd ymysg disgyblion a herio anawsterau ymddygiadol sydd yn gallu arwain yn aml at fethiant gan bobl ifanc i fanteisio i’r eithaf ar eu cyfleoedd addysgol.
Tackling crime is one of the most important cross-cutting issues. Initiatives to reduce crime and disorder and youth offending must be integrated with programmes for social inclusion. The youth strategy that we talked about—Supporting Young People in Wales—is all about promoting social inclusion.
Mynd i’r afael â throseddu yw un o’r materion trawsbynciol pwysicaf. Rhaid integreiddio mentrau i leihau trosedd ac anhrefn a throseddu ymysg ieuenctid â rhaglenni ar gyfer cynhwysiant cymdeithasol. Mae’r strategaeth ieuenctid a drafodasom—Cefnogi Ieuenctid yng Nghymru—yn ymwneud yn gyfan gwbl â hybu cynhwysiant cymdeithasol.
Homelessness is a key issue facing society today. We will emphasise prevention as well as emergency provision, and recognise the need for outreach and support services with a 75 per cent increase in funding for next year for homelessness and rough sleeping.
Mae digartrefedd yn fater allweddol sydd yn wynebu cymdeithas heddiw. Byddwn yn pwysleisio atal yn ogystal â darpariaeth frys, ac yn cydnabod yr angen am wasanaethau allanol ac ategol gyda chynnydd o 75 y cant mewn ariannu am y flwyddyn nesaf ar gyfer digartrefedd a chysgu ar y strydoedd.
Rural Wales currently faces its toughest challenges. Many rural communities are disadvantaged simply because of their remoteness from the main population centres. Their viability is being threatened by the demise of local services such as the village shop and post office, public transport and healthcare provision. Kirsty Williams’s amendment 5 refers to the threat posed to communities by the Postal Services Bill. I know that the UK Government recognises the importance of the post office network and is committed to maintaining it nationwide. It is important to remember that the Bill aims to ensure that everyone in Britain has reasonable access to post office counter services. We accept, however, that concern was expressed by some Members during our recent debate on the Government’s forward legislative programme about the viability of post offices in our rural communities. That concern has been reiterated today. In supporting that amendment, we are happy to work to see that those concerns are addressed.
Ar hyn o bryd mae cefn gwlad Cymru’n wynebu ei heriau anoddaf. Mae llawer o gymunedau gwledig yn ddifreintiedig dim ond am eu bod yn bell o’r prif ganolfannau poblogaeth. Bygythir eu hyfywedd drwy ddiflaniad gwasanaethau lleol fel siop a swyddfa bost y pentref, trafnidiaeth gyhoeddus a darpariaeth gofal iechyd. Mae gwelliant 5 Kirsty Williams yn cyfeirio at y bygythiad i gymunedau oddi wrth y Mesur Gwasanaethau Post. Gwn fod Llywodraeth y DU yn cydnabod pwysigrwydd y rhwydwaith swyddfeydd post ac wedi ymrwymo i’w gadw drwy’r wlad. Mae’n bwysig cofio bod y Mesur yn ceisio sicrhau y caiff pawb ym Mhrydain fynediad rhesymol at wasanaethau cownteri swyddfeydd post. Fodd bynnag, derbyniwn fod rhai Aelodau wedi mynegi pryder yn ystod ein dadl ddiweddar ar flaen-raglen ddeddfwriaethol y Llywodraeth ynghylch hyfywedd swyddfeydd post yn ein cymunedau gwledig. Ailfynegwyd y pryder hwnnw heddiw. Wrth gefnogi’r gwelliant hwnnw, byddwn yn falch o weithio i sicrhau y rhoddir sylw i’r pryderon hynny.
Rural Wales is on the threshold of many new and exciting opportunities with Objective 1 status for west Wales and the prospect of Objective 2 funding for many parts of the rural east. There is support for wider rural development measures under the new rural development plan, which we debated before Christmas, and proposals under the new assisted areas map which, if adopted, will give the whole of west Wales—together with south Wales—access to the highest level of financial assistance to aid businesses. Rural issues cut across all our responsibilities and the rural dimension must be embodied in all that we do in our social inclusion action plan.
Mae cefn gwlad Cymru ar drothwy llawer o gyfleoedd newydd a chyffrous gyda statws Amcan 1 i orllewin Cymru a’r gobaith o arian Amcan 2 i lawer o rannau o’r dwyrain gwledig. Mae cefnogaeth i fesurau datblygu gwledig ehangach o dan y cynllun datblygu gwledig newydd a drafodasom cyn y Nadolig, a chynigion o dan y map ardaloedd a gynorthwyir newydd a fydd, os caiff ei dderbyn, yn rhoi’r hawl i’r cyfan o orllewin Cymru—ynghyd â de Cymru— dderbyn y lefel uchaf o gymorth ariannol i gynorthwyo busnesau. Mae materion gwledig yn torri ar draws ein holl gyfrifoldebau a rhaid cynnwys y dimensiwn gwledig ym mhopeth a wnawn yn ein cynllun gweithredu cynhwysiant cymdeithasol.
Finally, on Objective 1, Kirsty Williams’s amendment 6 recognises the importance of full match funding for Wales over and above that provided in the Barnett block grant. We have repeatedly made clear that public expenditure cover and public sector match funding will be determined by the spending review and resolved by the summer, but that match funding for individual projects can and should come from a variety of sources including the private sector. We are confident, and have demonstrated many times, that we can meet our spending commitments for this year from within existing resources. We are prepared to support this amendment. It is in line with the position outlined by the Assembly when it agreed to submit the single programming document in October last year, that we should secure the full public expenditure cover and the necessary additional public match funding from the Treasury.
Yn olaf, ar Amcan 1, mae gwelliant 6 Kirsty Williams yn cydnabod pwysigrwydd ariannu cyfatebol llawn i Gymru uwchlaw’r hyn a ddarperir yng ngrant bloc Barnett. Rhoesom ar ddeall dro ar ôl tro y caiff y ddarpariaeth o wariant cyhoeddus ac arian cyfatebol y sector cyhoeddus eu pennu gan yr adolygiad o wariant a’u penderfynu erbyn yr haf, ond y gall ac y dylai arian cyfatebol ar gyfer prosiectau unigol ddod o amryw o ffynonellau gan gynnwys y sector preifat. Yr ydym yn hyderus, ac wedi dangos lawer gwaith, ein bod yn gallu cyflawni ein hymrwymiadau gwariant am y flwyddyn hon oddi mewn i’r adnoddau presennol. Yr ydym yn barod i gefnogi’r gwelliant hwn. Mae’n gyson â’r safbwynt a amlinellwyd gan y Cynulliad pan gytunodd i gyflwyno’r ddogfen raglennu sengl yn Hydref y llynedd, sef y dylem sicrhau’r ddarpariaeth lawn o wariant cyhoeddus a’r arian cyfatebol cyhoeddus ychwanegol angenrheidiol o’r Trysorlys.
Finally, how we do it is as important as what we do. In tackling social exclusion it is vital that we raise the confidence and self-esteem of the people of Wales. That means not only the prosperous, but the excluded, the disadvantaged and those who are discriminated against. Partnership may be an overused word but it is an important currency for us in Wales. True partnership involves users, patients, the public sector workforce, trade unions, community groups, as well as local government, business and the voluntary sector. Inclusive has to include the dispossessed in our communities. The route to good decision-making, good policy-making and the renewal of our communities involves people who have been excluded by Government and authority. If we are to target our resources and our initiatives more effectively, our answers lie in our communities. We can maximise the opportunities to join up our health, economic, education and environmental policies at a community level. That is how the National Assembly for Wales can demonstrate added value in our fight against poverty. This will be an important and powerful route to the building of Wales for social, political and economic inclusion. I commend the motion and the outline action plan to you.
Yn olaf, mae’r modd y’i gwnawn gyn bwysiced â’r hyn a wnawn. Wrth ymdrin ag allgáu cymdeithasol mae’n holl bwysig inni godi hyder a hunan-barch pobl Cymru. Mae hynny’n golygu nid yn unig y rhai da eu byd, ond y rhai anghynwysedig, y rhai difreintiedig a’r rhai y gwahaniaethir yn eu herbyn. Efallai fod gorddefnydd ar y gair partneriaeth ond mae’n air cyfoes pwysig i ni yng Nghymru. Mae gwir bartneriaeth yn cynnwys defnyddwyr, cleifion, gweithlu’r sector cyhoeddus, undebau llafur, grwpiau cymunedol, yn ogystal â llywodraeth leol, busnes a’r sector gwirfoddol. Mae cynhwysol yn gorfod cynnwys y rhai difreintiedig yn ein cymunedau. Mae’r llwybr at benderfynu da, llunio polisïau da ac adnewyddu ein cymunedau yn cynnwys pobl a ddieithriwyd gan Lywodraeth ac awdurdod. Os ydym i dargedu ein hadnoddau a’n mentrau’n fwy effeithiol, mae ein hatebion i’w cael yn ein cymunedau. Gallwn amlhau’r cyfleoedd i gysylltu ein polisïau iechyd, economaidd, addysgol ac amgylcheddol ar lefel gymunedol. Dyna sut y gall Cynulliad Cenedlaethol Cymru ddangos gwerth ychwanegol yn ein brwydr yn erbyn tlodi. Bydd hon yn ffordd bwysig a phwerus tuag at adeiladu Cymru er mwyn cynhwysiant cymdeithasol, gwleidyddol ac economaidd. Cymeradwyaf y cynnig a’r cynllun gweithredu bras i chi.
I propose amendment 1. In the first line, delete the word ‘endorses’ and replace with ‘notes’.
Cynigiaf welliant 1. Yn y llinell gyntaf, dileer y gair ‘cymeradwyo’ a rhodder ‘nodi’ yn ei le.
I also propose amendment 4. After the words ‘the most deprived communities in Wales’ delete the full stop and add
Cynigiaf hefyd welliant 4. Ar ôl y geiriau ‘y cymunedau mwyaf difreintiedig yng Nghymru’ dileer yr atalnod llawn ac ychwaneger
Some groups have done better than others in post-industrial society and some areas have prospered while others have declined. It is not difficult to identify the groups that have been most affected by social exclusion. They include those on low incomes, the unemployed, those who are in poor health or lack qualifications and skills. As these groups are so readily identified, it is appropriate that we set targets to ensure that social inclusion is enhanced. That is the substance of the amendments I have tabled this afternoon.
Gwnaeth rhai grwpiau’n well na’i gilydd yn y gymdeithas ôl-ddiwydiannol a ffynnodd rhai ardaloedd tra dirywiodd eraill. Nid yw’n anodd dynodi’r grwpiau yr effeithiwyd fwyaf arnynt gan allgáu cymdeithasol. Yn eu plith mae’r rhai sydd ar incwm isel, y di-waith, rhai sydd yn wael eu hiechyd neu heb gymwysterau a medrau. Gan ei bod mor hawdd dynodi’r grwpiau hyn, mae’n briodol inni bennu targedau i sicrhau hybu cynhwysiant cymdeithasol. Dyna sylwedd y gwelliannau a gyflwynais y prynhawn yma.
We need a coherent strategy for social inclusion that sets challenging and measurable targets. For instance, what is our target figure for ensuring that households in the Valleys receive over £10,000 income? What percentage of the population is to be economically active? What are our targets to close health inequalities? What are our targets to increase qualifications and skills and to reduce school exclusions? What are the aims that can be measured? Without these, we will have a vapid and tame strategy.
Mae arnom angen strategaeth gydlynol ar gyfer cynhwysiant cymdeithasol sydd yn pennu targedau ymestynnol a mesuradwy. Er enghraifft, beth yw ein ffigur targed er mwyn sicrhau bod teuluoedd yn y Cymoedd yn derbyn incwm o dros £10,000? Pa ganran o’r boblogaeth sydd i fod yn economaidd weithgar? Beth yw ein targedau er mwyn lleihau anghydraddoldebau iechyd? Beth yw ein targedau er mwyn cynyddu cymwysterau a medrau a lleihau gwaharddiadau o ysgolion? Beth yw’r nodau y gellir eu mesur? Heb y rhain, bydd gennym strategaeth ddifywyd a dienaid.
Underlying this topic is a need for economic prosperity. Many of the most deprived areas were at the heart of the industrial revolution. It is now up to us to explain our vision for those areas in the new Wales we are seeing created. Will we improve the road system in the Valleys or, now that we have improved the roads in the south, will we leave the Valleys with poor communications? What is the future of Prince Charles Hospital? Will it be properly modernised? People will ask those questions and will seek concrete results. If we do not set challenging targets, our achievements will be as thin as the document before us today. Instead of joined-up working, we will have jumped-up claims about the value of programmes that would have occurred anyway.
Yr hyn sydd wrth wraidd y pwnc hwn yw’r angen am ffyniant economaidd. Yr oedd llawer o’r ardaloedd mwyaf difreintiedig ar ganol y chwyldro diwydiannol. Ein lle ni yn awr yw egluro ein gweledigaeth ar gyfer yr ardaloedd hynny yn y Gymru newydd y’i gwelwn yn cael ei chreu. A fyddwn yn gwella’r system ffyrdd yn y Cymoedd neu, a ninnau bellach wedi gwella’r ffyrdd yn y de, a fyddwn yn gadael y Cymoedd â chysylltiadau gwael? Beth fydd dyfodol Ysbyty’r Tywysog Siarl? A gaiff ei foderneiddio’n iawn? Bydd pobl yn gofyn y cwestiynau hynny ac yn chwilio am ganlyniadau pendant. Os na phennwn dargedau ymestynnol, bydd ein cyflawniadau mor denau â’r ddogfen sydd ger ein bron heddiw. Yn lle gweithio cydgysylltiol, bydd gennym honiadau chwyddedig am werth rhaglenni a fyddai wedi digwydd beth bynnag.
I propose amendment 2. In the second line, after ‘effort’ delete ‘is’ and insert
Cynigiaf welliant 2. Yn yr ail linell, ar ôl ‘ymdrechu ar y cyd’ ychwaneger
Helen Mary Jones (continued) spoken in English p. 60
Helen Mary Jones (parhad) siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 60
I also propose amendment 3. Add second paragraph
Cynigiaf hefyd welliant 3. Ychwaneger ail baragraff
Helen Mary Jones (continued) spoken in English p. 60
Helen Mary Jones (parhad) siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 60
Plaid Cymru—The Party of Wales welcomes further debate on this vital issue. However, we feel that in many ways this document and this debate reflect both the best aspects of the Government of Wales’s performance in this Assembly and, I am sorry to say, the worst. The best includes the intention to connect initiatives—Government initiatives and local government and voluntary sector initiatives—to ensure maximum impact. The action planning process is clear and open to public scrutiny and political consensus. We may differ on the means to reach our goals but, across this Chamber, we share the goals that we want to achieve.
Mae Plaid Cymru—The Party of Wales yn croesawu dadl bellach ar y mater hanfodol hwn. Fodd bynnag, teimlwn ar lawer ystyr fod y ddogfen hon a’r ddadl hon yn adlewyrchu nodweddion gorau perfformiad Llywodraeth Cymru yn y Cynulliad hwn ac, mae’n ddrwg gennyf ddweud, y nodweddion gwaethaf. Ymysg y gorau y mae’r bwriad i gysylltu mentrau—mentrau’r Llywodraeth a mentrau llywodraeth leol a’r sector gwirfoddol—i sicrhau’r effaith fwyaf posibl. Mae’r broses cynllunio gweithredu yn eglur ac yn agored i’w harchwilio gan y cyhoedd ac i gonsensws gwleidyddol. Efallai fod gwahaniaeth rhyngom o ran y dulliau i gyrraedd ein nodau ond, ar draws y Siambr hon, yr ydym yn rhannu’r nodau yr ydym am eu cyrraedd.
Turning to the worst, there is a perception of paralysis. Many of the things that we are saying this afternoon were said six months ago. I recall the date clearly because it was my birthday, 29 June. I recall suggesting setting specific targets for economic development agencies and for Assembly sponsored public bodies for example. Six months later, where is the action? We are still at the stage of a mapping exercise. Why have we had to wait six months to begin?
A throi at y gwaethaf, ceir yr hyn a welir yn barlys. Dywedwyd llawer o’r pethau a ddywedwn y prynhawn yma chwe mis yn ôl. Cofiaf y dyddiad yn glir oherwydd fy mhen blwydd ydoedd, 29 Mehefin. Cofiaf awgrymu gosod targedau penodolar gyfer asiantaethau datblygu economaidd ac ar gyfer cyrff cyhoeddus a noddir gan y Cynulliad er enghraifft. Chwe mis yn ddiweddarach, beth a ddigwyddodd? Yr ydym yn dal i fod yng nghyfnod yr ymarfer mapio. Pam y bu’n rhaid inni ddisgwyl chwe mis i ddechrau?
There is an element of lip service to political inclusivity. After what Jane Hutt said, I think that this may be an oversight rather than intentional. Prior to our amendment 3, there was no mechanism, as far as I am aware, for other parties to feed into this process. There was no requirement for all Committees to discuss social inclusion and no political mechanism except the Cabinet to drive the agenda forward. I accept that Jane has addressed that in supporting our amendment and we are grateful for that.
Mae elfen o wefus-wasanaeth i gynwysoldeb gwleidyddol. Ar ôl yr hyn a ddywedodd Jane Hutt, credaf y gallai hyn fod yn fater o esgeulustod yn hytrach nag o fwriad. Cyn gwelliant 3 o’n heiddo, nid oedd mecanwaith, hyd y gwn i, i bleidiau eraill borthi’r broses hon. Nid oedd gofyniad i’r holl Bwyllgorau drafod cynhwysiant cymdeithasol na mecanwaith gwleidyddol heblaw am y Cabinet i yrru’r agenda ymlaen. Derbyniaf fod Jane wedi rhoi sylw i hynny wrth gefnogi ein gwelliant ac yr ydym yn ddiolchgar am hynny.
It is vital that we bring tackling social exclusion into all aspects of the Assembly’s work and the work of all the bodies that are responsible to us. If we fail to do that we will fail those communities that look to us most. There is no need to rehearse the need. There can hardly be a Member in this Chamber that does not face social inclusion issues in their constituency surgeries on a week-to-week basis. I stress again that the bottom line is poverty. Other factors such as drug and alcohol abuse, prejudice and discrimination play a part, but ultimately it is poverty that determines exclusion.
Mae’n holl bwysig inni ddod ag ymdriniaeth o allgáu cymdeithasol i bob agwedd o waith y Cynulliad a gwaith yr holl gyrff sydd yn atebol i ni. Os methwn â gwneud hynny byddwn yn siomi’r cymunedau hynny sydd yn edrych tuag atom fwyaf. Nid oes angen ailadrodd yr angen. Prin bod yr un Aelod yn y Siambr hon nad yw’n wynebu materion cynhwysiant cymdeithasol yn ei gymorthfeydd etholaeth o wythnos i wythnos. Pwysleisiaf eto mai’r llinell waelod yw tlodi. Mae ffactorau eraill fel camddefnyddio cyffuriau ac alcohol, rhagfarn a gwahaniaethu yn chwarae eu rhan, ond yn y pen draw tlodi sydd yn pennu dieithrwch.
We must use all the Assembly’s abilities to the full to tackle this issue. Hence the call in amendment 2—again we are grateful to the Government for supporting that—for additional resources as well as a concerted effort to promote social inclusion. That must be a priority. Will Jane Hutt tell us how many staff we have working on this? She is aware of my concern that the number of staff that we have working on equal opportunities is pitiful. I hope that the number of staff working on social inclusion issues is slightly more respectable.
Rhaid inni ddefnyddio holl alluoedd y Cynulliad i’r eithaf er mwyn ymdrin â’r mater hwn. Oherwydd hynny y ceir yr alwad yng ngwelliant 2—unwaith eto yr ydym yn ddiolchgar i’r Llywodraeth am gefnogi hwnnw—am adnoddau ychwanegol yn ogystal ag ymdrech ar y cyd i hybu cynhwysiant cymdeithasol. Rhaid i hynny fod yn flaenoriaeth. A fydd Jane Hutt yn dweud wrthym sawl aelod o staff sydd gennym yn gweithio ar hyn? Mae’n ymwybodol o’m pryder bod nifer y staff sydd gennym yn gweithio ar gyfle cyfartal yn druenus. Gobeithiaf fod y nifer o staff sydd yn gweithio ar faterion cynhwysiant cymdeithasol ychydig yn fwy gweddus.
We must also work to minimise the damage and maximise the benefit of London Government policy in the poorest communities in Wales. Hence our repeated call for a national benefit uptake project. The Party of Wales does not want to let the central Government in London off the hook; we want to ensure that the poorest people in our communities get every single penny to which they are entitled. There is an appetite in the voluntary sector for that and I hope that the Government will not rule that out today as a possible future action in the action plan. However, we would not expect a commitment to that.
Rhaid inni weithio hefyd i leihau difrod ac amlhau budd polisi Llywodraeth Llundain yn y cymunedau tlotaf yng Nghymru. Oherwydd hynny y galwasom dro ar ôl tro am brosiect hybu derbyn budd-daliadau cenedlaethol. Nid yw Plaid Cymru am achub croen y Llywodraeth ganol yn Llundain; yr ydym am sicrhau y bydd y bobl dlotaf yn ein cymunedau yn cael pob un geiniog y mae ganddynt hawl iddi. Mae awydd yn y sector gwirfoddol am hynny a gobeithiaf na fydd y Llywodraeth yn diystyru hynny heddiw fel cam posibl yn y dyfodol yn y cynllun gweithredu. Fodd bynnag, ni fyddem yn disgwyl ymrwymiad i hynny.
It is vital that we get Objective 1 to work. We must get the implementation systems in place at once. People in our communities are confused and are getting anxious. Opposition parties are accused of creating anxiety by worrying about the funding, but much more important is the question of to whom on earth people are supposed to write if they have a project with which they need to deal. We must address the funding issue, but that is for another day. Finally, I inform the Government of Wales that we agree with you that the current situation is terrible. We agree with you that tackling social exclusion is a priority for the Assembly. However, what we have here today is a plan to develop an action plan. Six months down the line, that is not good enough. For goodness’ sake, let us act now. We cannot wait another six months for some concrete action.
Mae’n holl bwysig inni roi Amcan 1 ar waith. Rhaid inni roi’r systemau gweithredu yn eu lle ar unwaith. Mae’r bobl yn ein cymunedau wedi drysu ac yn dechrau pryderu. Cyhuddir pleidiau’r wrthblaid o greu poen meddwl drwy boeni am yr ariannu, ond mater pwysicach o lawer yw at bwy ar y ddaear y dylai pobl ysgrifennu os oes ganddynt brosiect y maent angen delio ag ef. Rhaid inni fynd i’r afael â mater ariannu, ond rhywbeth i ddiwrnod arall yw hynny. Yn olaf, rhoddaf wybod i Lywodraeth Cymru ein bod yn cytuno â chi bod y sefyllfa sydd ohoni’n ofnadwy. Cytunwn â chi fod ymdrin ag allgáu cymdeithasol yn flaenoriaeth i’r Cynulliad. Fodd bynnag, yr hyn sydd gennym heddiw yw cynllun i ddatblygu cynllun gweithredu. Chwe mis yn ddiweddarach, nid yw hynny yn ddigon da. Er mwyn popeth, gadewch inni weithredu yn awr. Ni allwn ddisgwyl chwe mis arall am weithredu pendant.
I propose amendment 5. At end of the motion insert
Cynigiaf welliant 5. Ychwaneger ar ddiwedd y cynnig
Kirsty Williams (continued) spoken in English p. 63
Kirsty Williams (parhad) siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 63
I also propose amendment 6. At end of the motion insert
Cynigiaf hefyd welliant 6. Ychwaneger ar ddiwedd y cynnig
Kirsty Williams (continued) spoken in English p. 63
Kirsty Williams (parhad) siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 63
Thank you for the opportunity to discuss today the positive steps that this Assembly must take to improve the lives of people in Wales; for too long their voices have been ignored by policy makers. These are people who exist on the tiniest of incomes, often not making ends meet, who want to make changes in their lives and communities, but who have not been given the tools and the resources to do so in the past; people whose circumstances prevent them from enjoying good health, whether that is due to lack of access to medical services or the resources to have a healthy diet; people whose living environment puts them at a disadvantage, due to poor housing stock, fear of crime in their communities or, in rural areas such as my constituency, the inability to access services such as post offices that are threatened daily, often by policies that are being pursued by the Labour administration in London.
Diolch am y cyfle i drafod heddiw y camau cadarnhaol y mae’n rhaid i’r Cynulliad hwn eu cymryd i wella bywydau pobl yng Nghymru; mae eu lleisiau wedi eu hanwybyddu’n rhy hir gan lunwyr polisi. Mae’r rhain yn bobl sydd yn byw ar incwm sydd gyda’r lleiaf, heb allu cael deupen y llinyn ynghyd yn aml, sydd am sicrhau newidiadau yn eu bywydau a’u cymunedau, ond na chawsant mo’r arfau a’r adnoddau i wneud hynny yn y gorffennol; pobl y mae eu hamgylchiadau’n eu rhwystro rhag mwynhau iechyd da, boed hynny oherwydd diffyg mynediad at wasanaethau meddygol neu at yr adnoddau i gael deiet iachus; pobl y mae eu hamgylchedd byw yn eu rhoi dan anfantais, oherwydd stoc dai wael, ofn troseddu yn eu cymunedau neu, mewn ardaloedd gwledig fel fy etholaeth i, anallu i gael mynediad at wasanaethau fel swyddfeydd post sydd dan fygythiad yn ddyddiol, yn aml oddi wrth bolisïau a ddilynir gan y weinyddiaeth Lafur yn Llundain.
Many of the areas that we are discussing are—though not exclusively—in Objective 1 areas. Social inclusion and Objective 1 go hand in hand. If this administration fails to secure match funding for Objective 1, our best opportunity to improve these communities’ lot will be lost. A decision on this by the summer is not good enough. In the Government paper ‘Building an Inclusive Wales: Tackling the Social Exclusion Agenda’, reference is made to the key principles of the better government agenda, which are relevant in delivering an effective response to social inclusion. One is to invest to prevent problems before they take hold. The longer we delay in implementing the plans and projects, the more these problems will take hold. I do not believe that finding match funding poses a problem for Westminster. I do not believe that the Treasury is short of money; the war chest gets larger every day. However, I worry about this administration’s ability to make the most of those resources. The word that Ron used was ‘inept’. I hope that the ineptness stops now and that we can look forward to ensuring that these communities will enjoy what is potentially on offer to them.
Mae llawer o’r ardaloedd yr ydym yn eu trafod—er nad y cwbl ohonynt—yn ardaloedd Amcan 1. Â cynhwysiant cymdeithasol ac Amcan 1 law yn llaw. Os metha’r weinyddiaeth hon â sicrhau arian cyfatebol ar gyfer Amcan 1, collir y cyfle gorau sydd gennym i wella byd y cymunedau hyn. Nid yw penderfyniad ar hyn erbyn yr haf yn ddigon da. Ym mhapur y Llywodraeth ‘Adeiladu Cymru Gynhwysol: Ymosod ar yr Agenda Dieithrwch Cymdeithasol’, cyfeirir at egwyddorion allweddol yr agenda llywodraeth well, sydd yn berthnasol wrth ymateb yn effeithiol i gynhwysiant cymdeithasol. Un ohonynt yw buddsoddi i atal problemau cyn iddynt gael gafael. Po hwyaf yr oedwn cyn gweithredu’r cynlluniau a’r prosiectau, mwyaf fydd y problemau hyn yn cael gafael. Ni chredaf fod dod o hyd i arian cyfatebol yn golygu problem i San Steffan. Ni chredaf fod y Trysorlys yn brin o arian; mae’r gist ryfel yn tyfu bob dydd. Fodd bynnag, yr wyf yn bryderus ynghylch gallu’r weinyddiaeth hon i gael y mwyaf o’r adnoddau hyn. Y gair a ddefnyddiodd Ron oedd ‘inept’. Gobeithiaf y daw’r anfedrusrwydd i ben yn awr ac y gallwn edrych ymlaen at sicrhau y bydd y cymunedau hyn yn mwynhau’r hyn a allai fod ar gael iddynt.
In amendment 5, I refer to issues that will be fundamental in improving the lot of many of these communities: better training, free eye and dental check-ups and better education provision. As Helen and David said, we must measure those targets and achievements. We must put the policy in place now and in three or six months’ time, the Committees and the Assembly should look back to see whether our actions have delivered the outcomes that we wanted in those communities. If we do not set real targets now, we will not be able to check whether our actions have been successful. I am grateful to Jane Hutt for stating her support for my amendments and I appreciate the opportunity to speak.
Yng ngwelliant 5, cyfeiriaf at faterion a fydd yn holl bwysig wrth wella byd llawer o’r cymunedau hyn: hyfforddiant gwell, archwiliadau llygaid a dannedd am ddim a gwell darpariaeth addysg. Fel y dywedodd Helen a David, rhaid inni fesur y targedau a chyflawniadau hynny. Rhaid inni sefydlu’r polisi yn awr ac ymhen tri neu chwe mis, dylai’r Pwyllgorau a’r Cynulliad edrych yn ôl i weld a yw ein gweithredoedd wedi esgor ar y canlyniadau yr oeddem am eu gweld yn y cymunedau hynny. Os na phennwn dargedau gwirioneddol yn awr, ni fyddwn yn gallu gwirio a fu ein gweithredoedd yn llwyddiannus. Yr wyf yn ddiolchgar i Jane Hutt am ddatgan ei chefnogaeth i’m gwelliannau a gwerthfawrogaf y cyfle i siarad.
I am pleased to have a chance to contribute to the debate. It is a small chance as we have a tight timescale. I welcome the unified approach to this action plan. The initial mapping activities will be crucial to the success of the project. As politicians, we must keep an eye on how the mapping operates. I also welcome looking at the identification of social inclusion champions, which will also be crucial to this project. Local authorities have responsibility for the People in Communities programme. Early evaluation of that programme has identified that it is driven forward much more effectively where there is a champion fully engaged in the process and driving the programme forward within the local authority. It is crucial to the success of a national strategy in Wales that we identify the champions.
Yr wyf yn falch o gael cyfle i gyfrannu i’r ddadl. Mae’n gyfle bychan gan fod gennym amserlen dynn. Croesawaf yr ymagwedd unedig at y cynllun gweithredu hwn. Bydd y gweithgareddau mapio dechreuol yn hanfodol i lwyddiant y prosiect. Fel gwleidyddion, rhaid inni gadw golwg ar y modd y mae’r mapio’n gweithredu. Croesawaf hefyd yr ystyriaeth i ddynodi pleidwyr cynhwysiant cymdeithasol a fydd hefyd yn holl bwysig i’r prosiect hwn. Mae awdurdodau lleol yn gyfrifol am y rhaglen Pobl mewn Cymunedau. Mae’r gwerthuso cynnar ar y rhaglen honno wedi canfod y caiff ei hybu’n llawer mwy effeithiol pan fydd pleidiwr yn ymwneud yn gyfan gwbl â’r broses ac yn gyrru’r rhaglen ymlaen o fewn yr awdurdod lleol. Mae’n hanfodol i lwyddiant strategaeth genedlaethol yng Nghymru inni ddynodi’r pleidwyr.
There are three issues that I hope the Cabinet will assure me are being considered. The first relates to indicators and the index of deprivation. We know that the contract for producing this index has been awarded to Oxford University, and I am confident that it will do an excellent job of producing objective indicators for measuring social inclusion. The trouble is that social inclusion is not the same as poverty. Therefore, it will be important that we consider subjective as well as physical indicators in terms of those experiencing social exclusion. That has begun to be built into the People in Communities programme and must be built into any national programme in Wales. If we have a wide range of subjective and qualitative indicators, we can monitor directly the experiences of those who suffer from social exclusion.
Mae tri mater y gobeithiaf gael sicrwydd gan y Cabinet eu bod yn derbyn ystyriaeth. Mae a wnelo’r cyntaf â dangosyddion a’r mynegai amddifadedd. Gwyddom fod y contract i gynhyrchu’r mynegai hwn wedi ei ddyfarnu i Brifysgol Rhydychen, ac yr wyf yn ffyddiog y bydd yn gwneud gwaith ardderchog wrth gynhyrchu dangosyddion gwrthrychol i fesur cynhwysiant cymdeithasol. Y drafferth yw nad yr un peth yw cynhwysiant cymdeithasol a thlodi. Felly, bydd yn bwysig inni ystyried dangosyddion goddrychol yn ogystal â rhai ffisegol o ran y rhai sydd yn profi allgáu cymdeithasol. Dechreuwyd corffori hynny yn y rhaglen Pobl mewn Cymunedau a rhaid ei gorffori mewn unrhyw raglen genedlaethol yng Nghymru. Os oes gennym amrediad eang o ddangosyddion goddrychol ac ansoddol, gallwn fonitro’n uniongyrchol brofiadau’r rhai sydd yn dioddef o allgáu cymdeithasol.
Although the action plan is welcome in that it has a dissemination strategy, I am concerned that it does not go far enough in ensuring that the dissemination occurs right across every public service in Wales at a level at which we can be confident that those services will take recommendations forward. We must bring senior managers in all our public services into this process and have an inclusive approach. That is particularly important in local government. We will be knocking at an open door in terms of commitment, but we must enshrine this more effectively, perhaps through the Partnership Council.
Er bod y cynllun gweithredu i’w groesawu i’r graddau ei fod yn cynnwys strategaeth lledaenu, yr wyf yn bryderus nad yw’n mynd yn ddigon pell wrth sicrhau bod y lledaenu’n digwydd ar draws pob gwasanaeth cyhoeddus yng Nghymru ar lefel lle y gallwn fod yn hyderus y bydd y gwasanaethau hynny’n bwrw ymlaen â’r argymhellion. Rhaid inni gynnwys uwch reolwyr ym mhob un o’n gwasanaethau cyhoeddus yn y broses hon a chael dull gweithredu cynhwysol. Mae hynny’n arbennig o bwysig mewn llywodraeth leol. Byddwn yn curo ar ddrws agored o ran ymrwymiad, ond rhaid inni ymgorffori hyn yn fwy effeithiol, efallai drwy’r Cyngor Partneriaeth.
Lastly, we must consider opportunities in terms of how we link with the health service. We are all acutely conscious that health inequalities and poverty go hand in hand. We all know, and have discussed today, the kind of pressures on the health service, that mean that that part of the debate continually becomes less important in this Chamber. We must also look at how we map the inequities in the health service, as well as mapping in general. We must ensure that this issue is included strongly in the accountability and performance management frameworks for health authorities and, in particular, for the chief executive officers. If we do not, we will not achieve the commitment to tackle this issue in the same way. We have already seen the success of writing the expectation of intersectoral partnerships into such frameworks. We should use that experience to build on this and ensure that tackling inequalities becomes a fundamental principle of public service delivery in Wales.
Yn olaf, rhaid inni ystyried cyfleoedd o ran y modd yr ydym yn cysylltu â’r gwasanaeth iechyd. Yr ydym oll yn ymwybodol tu hwnt bod anghydraddoldebau iechyd a thlodi’n mynd law yn llaw. Gwyddom oll, ac fe’u trafodasom heddiw, am y math o bwysau sydd ar y gwasanaeth iechyd, sydd yn golygu bod y rhan honno o’r ddadl yn mynd yn llai pwysig o hyd yn y Siambr hon. Rhaid inni hefyd edrych ar y modd yr ydym yn mapio’r anghydraddoldebau yn y gwasanaeth iechyd, yn ogystal â mapio’n gyffredinol. Rhaid inni sicrhau y caiff y mater hwn ei gynnwys yn bendant yn y fframweithiau cyfrifoldeb a rheoli perfformiad ar gyfer awdurdodau iechyd ac, yn enwedig, ar gyfer prif swyddogion gweithredol. Os na wnawn hynny, ni fyddwn yn sicrhau’r ymrwymiad i fynd i’r afael â’r mater hwn yn yr un modd. Gwelsom eisoes y llwyddiant o gynnwys partneriaethau rhyngsectorol mewn fframweithiau o’r fath. Dylem ddefnyddio’r profiad hwnnw i adeiladu ar hynny a sicrhau bod ymdrin ag anghydraddoldebau’n dod yn egwyddor sylfaenol wrth gyflenwi gwasanaethau cyhoeddus yng Nghymru.
The Welsh Office and the Assembly have prided themselves in collecting statistics and, when I saw the action plan, I thought that it was about time that we learnt how to interpret and apply them. My experience is that all too rarely do they drive policy and coherent strategies. The use of poverty indicators is an essential element of understanding poverty. They provide clear and objective measures of deprivation, which provide the basis of policy and resource allocation.
Mae’r Swyddfa Gymreig a’r Cynulliad wedi ymfalchïo mewn casglu ystadegau a phan welais y cynllun gweithredu, credais ei fod yn hen bryd inni ddysgu sut i’w dehongli a’u cymhwyso. Yn fy mhrofiad i, anaml iawn y maent yn cyfeirio polisi a strategaethau cydlynol. Mae’r defnydd o ddangosyddion tlodi’n elfen hanfodol er mwyn deall tlodi. Darparant fesuryddion eglur a gwrthrychol o amddifadedd, sydd yn darparu’r sylfaen ar gyfer polisi a dyrannu adnoddau.
Poverty and social exclusion are linked closely and coincide generally, and it is difficult for people to differentiate between the debate on social exclusion and inclusion. The Secretary for Health and Social Services mentioned ‘Mapping Social Exclusion in Wales’, and I thought that it might be useful to remind Members of its contents. It makes startling reading and indicates that people living in socially excluded areas are dogged by low income, unemployment, poor health, low educational attainment, a poor physical environment and high levels of crime. The report contains 50 indicators on each of those aspects, and I hope that it will be used as a good working document and management tool in the other mapping process that the action plan states that we intend to engage in. Mapping processes must be robust and active. They must not just be an excuse for us to appear to be taking action when the public is highly critical of the lack of action by the Assembly on improving the quality of life.
Mae cysylltiad agos rhwng tlodi ag allgáu cymdeithasol ac yn gyffredinol maent yn cyd-ddigwydd, ac mae’n anodd i bobl wahaniaethu rhwng y ddadl ar allgáu a chynhwysiant cymdeithasol. Soniodd yr Ysgrifennydd Iechyd a Gwasanaethau Cymdeithasol am ‘Mapping Social Exclusion in Wales’, a chredaf y gallai fod yn fuddiol atgoffa’r Aelodau am ei gynnwys. Mae’n ddeunydd darllen syfrdanol ac yn dangos bod pobl sydd yn byw mewn ardaloedd a ddieithriwyd yn gymdeithasol yn cael eu canlyn gan incwm isel, diweithdra, iechyd gwael, cyrhaeddiad addysgol isel, amgylchedd ffisegol gwael a lefelau troseddu uchel. Mae’r adroddiad yn cynnwys 50 dangosydd ar bob un o’r agweddau hynny, a gobeithiaf y caiff ei ddefnyddio fel dogfen waith dda ac arf reoli yn y broses mapio arall y mae’r cynllun gweithredu’n datgan y byddwn yn ymgymryd â hi. Rhaid i brosesau mapio fod yn gadarn ac yn weithredol. Rhaid iddynt beidio â bod yn ddim ond esgus inni roi’r argraff ein bod yn gweithredu pan fo’r cyhoedd yn feirniadol iawn o’r diffyg gweithredu gan y Cynulliad i wella ansawdd bywyd.
There was mention earlier of local government’s role in this, and the recently published Local Government Bill gives new powers to councils to promote the economic, social and environmental wellbeing of their communities. Most would claim that that has been their objective since their inception, but we all know that there have been bad examples—predominantly Labour councils in Wales—that would not stand up to that scrutiny. Nonetheless, this Bill will give local authorities the flexibility to meet local objectives, based on the priorities of local people and partner organisations. Initially, I felt that I could do no more than support noting the draft action plan as I found it uninspiring and lacking in dynamism. However, in view of the Assembly Secretary’s support of the amendments, I am now convinced that the final draft action plan is sufficiently robust to justify endorsement. The action plan states that the Assembly intends to launch its annual report at a Wales-wide conference in June. Will the Assembly Secretary invite Rhondda Cynon Taff County Borough Council to host this conference, in the sure knowledge that they will accept?
Yr oedd sôn yn gynharach am ran llywodraeth leol yn hyn, ac mae’r Mesur Llywodraeth Leol a gyhoeddwyd yn ddiweddar yn rhoi pwerau newydd i gynghorau hybu lles economaidd, cymdeithasol ac amgylcheddol eu cymunedau. Honnai’r rhan fwyaf o bobl mai hynny yw eu hamcan ers eu sefydlu, ond gwyddom oll fod enghreifftiau gwael wedi bod—cynghorau Llafur yn bennaf yng Nghymru—na fyddent yn dal eu harchwilio felly. Er hynny, bydd y Mesur hwn yn rhoi hyblygrwydd i awdurdodau lleol gyrraedd amcanion lleol, ar sail blaenoriaethau pobl leol a phartner gyrff. Ar y dechrau, teimlais na allwn wneud mwy na chefnogi nodi’r cynllun gweithredu drafft gan fy mod yn ei gael yn ddi-fflach ac yn ddiegni. Fodd bynnag, yng ngolwg cefnogaeth yr Ysgrifennydd Cynulliad i’r gwelliannau, yr wyf wedi fy argyhoeddi bellach fod y cynllun gweithredu drafft terfynol yn ddigon cadarn i gyfiawnhau ei gymeradwyo. Mae’r cynllun gweithredu’n datgan bod y Cynulliad yn bwriadu lansio ei adroddiad blynyddol mewn cynhadledd i Gymru gyfan ym Mehefin. A fydd yr Ysgrifennydd Cynulliad gystal â gwahodd Cyngor Bwrdeistref Sirol Rhondda Cynon Taf i gynnal y gynhadledd hon, gan wybod y bydd yn derbyn?
I welcome the outline action plan that is before us today. Over the next few years, I have no doubt that the Assembly will be seen as having been instrumental in improving the lives of many people who are disengaged from our society at present. Disengagement brings many problems, not just for the individual but also for society. Any work that we do to re-engage people will have immeasurable knock-on effects, not just for this generation but for generations to come.
Croesawaf y cynllun gweithredu bras sydd ger ein bron heddiw. Dros y blynyddoedd nesaf, nid oes dwywaith gennyf yr ystyrir i’r Cynulliad fod yn gyfrwng i wella bywydau llawer o bobl sydd wedi eu datgysylltu o’n cymdeithas ar hyn o bryd. Daw datgysylltiad â llawer o broblemau, nid yn unig i’r unigolyn ond hefyd i gymdeithas. Bydd unrhyw waith a wnawn i ailgysylltu pobl yn cael effeithiau cynyddol aruthrol, nid yn unig ar gyfer y genhedlaeth hon ond ar gyfer cenedlaethau’r dyfodol.
I will speak briefly about a vulnerable section of society that feels that it is losing out—people with learning disabilities. Great strides were made in the past to change and improve the lives of people with learning disabilities. The all-Wales strategy provided opportunities for these great strides to be taken in order to promote social inclusion for these people. For the first time, these people and their families were given the support that they needed in order to integrate themselves into society in the way that the vast majority of us take for granted. I speak from experience, as I was involved with this issue during the time of the all-Wales strategy and the great progress and marvellous strides that were taken towards equality for this group, who had previously never been regarded as equals.
Siaradaf yn fyr am ran o gymdeithas sydd yn agored i niwed sydd yn teimlo ei bod yn methu ei chyfle—pobl ag anableddau dysgu. Cymerwyd camau breision yn y gorffennol i newid a gwella bywydau pobl ag anableddau dysgu. Yr oedd strategaeth Cymru gyfan yn darparu cyfleoedd i gymryd y camau breision hynny er mwyn hybu cynhwysiant cymdeithasol ymysg y bobl hyn. Am y tro cyntaf, rhoddwyd y gefnogaeth yr oedd ar y bobl hyn a’u teuluoedd ei hangen er mwyn integreiddio mewn cymdeithas mewn modd y mae’r rhan helaethaf ohonom yn ei gymryd yn ganiataol. Siaradaf o brofiad, gan imi fod yn gysylltiedig â’r mater hwn yn ystod cyfnod strategaeth Cymru gyfan a’r cynnydd mawr a’r camau rhyfeddol a gymerwyd tuag at gydraddoldeb i’r grŵp hwn, nad oeddent erioed wedi eu hystyried yn rhai cyfartal cyn hynny.
However, the transfer of moneys from the learning disability strategy into the local authority revenue settlement in 1997-98 has seen these services contract. That happened due to the funding losing its ring-fencing. It was John Redwood, not us, who was responsible for that change.
Fodd bynnag, gwelwyd crebachu yn y gwasanaethau hyn ar ôl trosglwyddo arian o’r strategaeth anabledd dysgu i’r setliad llywodraeth leol yn 1997-98. Digwyddodd hynny am nad oedd yr arian wedi ei glustnodi mwyach. John Redwood, nid ni, oedd yn gyfrifol am y newid hwnnw.
The Assembly Secretary has in no way made a commitment to retaining the ring-fencing that exists at present.
Nid yw’r Ysgrifennydd Cynulliad wedi ymrwymo o gwbl i gadw’r clustnodi sydd yn bod ar hyn o bryd.
The services, of which we were proud, started to contract in some areas of Wales and they are, sadly, continuing to contract. The only way not to throw away all of the good work that has been done is to hypothecate these moneys for community living. Does that give you an answer, David?
Yr oedd y gwasanaethau, yr oeddem yn falch ohonynt, wedi dechrau crebachu mewn rhai rhannau o Gymru a, gwaetha’r modd, maent yn dal i grebachu. Yr unig ffordd o beidio â thaflu’r holl waith da a wnaethpwyd yw adneuo’r arian hwn ar gyfer byw yn y gymuned. A yw hynny’n eich ateb, David?
I have written to Jane Hutt on this subject and I thank her for her response. I acknowledge that we are trying to make strides to provide some direct grants to protect services. However, we have much further to go. I ask the Health and Social Services Committee to examine what has happened in local authorities in Wales, maybe in conjunction with Mencap, in order to take forward this work. The work has, over the past couple of years, slowed down visibly in some, though not all, areas of Wales and is contracting at present. I would like to see this as a priority in achieving social inclusion in Wales.
Ysgrifennais at Jane Hutt am y pwnc hwn a diolchaf iddi am ei hymateb. Derbyniaf ein bod yn ceisio cymryd camau i ddarparu rhai grantiau uniongyrchol i warchod gwasanaethau. Fodd bynnag, rhaid inni fynd yn bellach o lawer. Gofynnaf i’r Pwyllgor Iechyd a Gwasanaethau Cymdeithasol edrych ar yr hyn a ddigwyddodd mewn awdurdodau lleol yng Nghymru, ar y cyd â Mencap efallai, er mwyn mynd ymlaen â’r gwaith hwn. Mae’n amlwg bod y gwaith wedi arafu, dros y blynyddoedd diwethaf, mewn rhai ardaloedd o Gymru, ond nid ym mhob un, ac mae’n crebachu ar hyn o bryd. Hoffwn weld hynny’n flaenoriaeth wrth sicrhau cynhwysiant cymdeithasol yng Nghymru.
I value the opportunity to speak in this debate, but I do not particularly welcome the debate itself. Sometimes, it seems to me that not a week goes by in this Assembly that we do not have a debate on the process of social inclusion. However, we rarely seem to discuss the substance. The great danger with this type of debate is, because it is anodyne and held at such a basic level, we find that there is no substance to it. We sit here in agreement and, inevitably, adopt the motion. We never seem to get down to the issues that matter.
Gwerthfawrogaf y cyfle i siarad yn y ddadl hon, ond nid wyf yn croesawu’r ddadl ei hun yn arbennig. Weithiau, ymddengys i mi nad yw’r un wythnos yn mynd heibio yn y Cynulliad hwn heb inni gael dadl ar broses cynhwysiant cymdeithasol. Fodd bynnag, mae’n ymddangos mai’n anaml y trafodwn y sylwedd. Y perygl mawr gyda dadl o’r math hwn, am ei bod yn un ddiddrwg-ddidda ac wedi ei chynnal ar lefel mor sylfaenol, yw y cawn nad oes sylwedd ynddi. Eisteddwn yma gan gytuno a byddwn, yn anochel, yn derbyn y cynnig. Nid ydym fyth yn cyrraedd y gwir faterion.
In this document, there is no mention of poverty, the farming crisis, European funds or homelessness. There is much talk of longitudinal indicators, spreading the message and informal seminars. I must confess that I do not know what URD or HCR is and I am certain that most of the electorate in mid and north Wales will have no idea what they are either. We do not seem to get down to the issues that matter and the reasons that we are here. No issue is more important at the moment than European funding. We need a debate on that. This Chamber is barely half full at the moment. If this were a debate on European funding, not only would the Chamber be full, people outside would be interested because it matters to them what happens in the Valleys and west Wales. It matters to them that Labour and Val, Rhodri and Alun Michael get their act together so that we get the funds and can act. Let us have a debate on that.
Yn y ddogfen hon, nid oes sôn am dlodi, yr argyfwng ffermio, cronfeydd Ewropeaidd neu ddigartrefedd. Mae llawer o sôn am ddangosyddion hydredol, lledaenu’r neges a seminarau anffurfiol. Rhaid imi gyfaddef na wn beth yw URD neu HCR ac yr wyf yn sicr nad oes gan y rhan fwyaf o’r etholwyr yng nghanolbarth a gogledd Cymru syniad o beth ydynt ychwaith. Nid ydym fyth yn cyrraedd y gwir faterion a’r rhesymau pam yr ydym yma. Nid oes yr un mater pwysicach ar hyn o bryd nag ariannu Ewropeaidd. Mae arnom angen dadl ar hynny. Prin bod y Siambr hon yn hanner llawn ar hyn o bryd. Pe bai hon yn ddadl ar ariannu Ewropeaidd, nid yn unig y byddai’r Siambr yn llawn, byddai diddordeb gan bobl yn y byd y tu allan oherwydd mae o bwys iddynt beth sydd yn digwydd yn y Cymoedd ac yng ngorllewin Cymru. Mae o bwys iddynt fod Llafur a Val, Rhodri ac Alun Michael yn cael trefn ar bethau fel y gallwn gael yr arian a gweithredu. Gadewch inni gael dadl ar hynny.
If we are really talking about social inclusion, we need to talk about pensioners. There is no mention of them in the document. There are 0.5 million pensioners in Wales, 200,000 of whom are on income support. I would value the opportunity to talk about how they have been hit by Labour’s proposal to increase council taxes by 13, 15 and 18 per cent. If we are to tackle social inclusion, let us act to reduce council tax bills to a level which approaches the rate of inflation rather than one that is six, seven or eight times inflation.
Os ydym yn sôn am gynhwysiant cymdeithasol mewn gwirionedd, mae angen inni sôn am bensiynwyr. Nid oes sôn amdanynt yn y ddogfen. Mae 0.5 miliwn o bensiynwyr yng Nghymru, 200,000 ohonynt yn derbyn cymhorthdal incwm. Gwerthfawrogwn y cyfle i sôn am y modd y cawsant eu bwrw gan fwriad Llafur i godi trethi’r cyngor 13, 15 a 18 y cant. Os ydym i fynd i’r afael â chynhwysiant cymdeithasol, gadewch inni weithredu i leihau biliau treth y cyngor i lefel sydd yn agos i gyfradd chwyddiant yn hytrach nag un sydd yn chwe, saith neu wyth gwaith cyfradd chwyddiant.
Homelessness is important but again, it is not mentioned in the document. Let us talk about how we can use some of the empty council houses and local authority homes in Wales to help that situation. At least 65,000 houses are vacant. That is one way we could tackle social inclusion problems. In short, we all seem to talk about the process. We have debates a go-go on social inclusion. I am not saying it does not matter. What really matters, however, is getting to the heart of the issues and trying to come up with solutions.
Mae digartrefedd yn bwysig ond unwaith eto, nid oes sôn amdano yn y ddogfen. Gadewch inni siarad am y modd y gallwn ddefnyddio rhai o’r tai cyngor a chartrefi awdurdodau lleol gwag yng Nghymru i helpu’r sefyllfa honno. Mae o leiaf 65,000 o dai’n wag. Mae hynny’n un ffordd y gallem ymdrin â phroblemau cynhwysiant cymdeithasol. Yn fyr, ymddengys ein bod ni i gyd yn sôn am y broses. Cawn ddadleuon dirifedi ar gynhwysiant cymdeithasol. Nid wyf yn dweud nad yw o bwys. Yr hyn sydd o wir bwys, fodd bynnag, yw cyrraedd hanfod y materion a cheisio canfod atebion.
The rural crisis exercises the minds of many of us who represent rural constituencies. Farmers saw their incomes cut by 50 per cent last year. Their income is likely to fall by two thirds in this current year. That is serious. Let us look at how the Government of Wales and the Government of Westminster is responding to that. A statutory right to roam has been introduced. Christine Gwyther has said that it will be at no extra cost to landowners. I am not convinced of that, nor are other Labour AMs, nor is Westminster. If that is the case, then perhaps that particular objection goes—
Mae’r argyfwng gwledig yn peri pryder i lawer ohonom sydd yn cynrychioli etholaethau gwledig. Gwelodd y ffermwyr ostyngiad o 50 y cant yn eu hincwm y llynedd. Mae eu hincwm yn debygol o ddisgyn o ddwy ran o dair yn y flwyddyn gyfredol. Mae hynny’n ddifrifol. Gadewch inni ystyried y modd y mae Llywodraeth Cymru a Llywodraeth San Steffan yn ymateb i hynny. Cyflwynwyd hawl crwydro statudol. Dywedodd Christine Gwyther na fydd yn costio dim yn ychwanegol i dirfeddianwyr. Nid wyf wedi fy argyhoeddi o hynny, nac Aelodau Cynulliad Llafur eraill, na San Steffan. Os yw hynny’n wir, efallai fod y gwrthwynebiad arbennig hwnnw yn mynd—
Do you share my concern that there is no mention of rurality in this document and do you not think that the document should take into account the high fuel taxes that people in rural areas must pay and the high council taxes that will be imposed on so many people in rural areas? Do you share my concern that this plan could become more empty words, a mapping exercise? We know that the First Secretary was a keen boy scout, but I hope that he managed to get his orienteering badge while he was in that organisation.
A ydych yn rhannu fy mhryder nad oes sôn am wledigrwydd yn y ddogfen hon ac a gredwch y dylai’r ddogfen gymryd i ystyriaeth y trethi tanwydd uchel y mae’n rhaid i bobl mewn ardaloedd gwledig eu talu a’r trethi cyngor uchel fydd yn cael eu gorfodi ar gynifer o bobl mewn ardaloedd gwledig? A rannwch fy mhryder y gallai’r cynllun hwn droi’n fwy o eiriau gwag, yn ymarfer mapio? Gwyddom i’r Prif Ysgrifennydd fod yn sgowt brwdfrydig, ond gobeithiaf ei fod wedi llwyddo i ennill ei fathodyn cyfeiriadu pan oedd yn y mudiad hwnnw.
There is a great danger that we will have a Government by taskforce and action plan. That is really an excuse for inaction. I agree that we have seen stealth taxes in rural Wales with sheep dip licences, charges on abattoirs, and petrol and diesel prices increasing above the rate of inflation. The Government is hitting rural communities seriously. That is quite apart from the problems of rural post offices and the sense of community that is being destroyed in rural Wales. These are the real issues that people in Wales want us to discuss. They do not want us to be obsessed with the process of social inclusion. They want delivery and so far this Assembly, and this administration in particular, has failed to deliver. We need a debate on the health service. We have heard the Secretary for Health and Social Services speak about that today but we know that there is a crisis in the health service. After all, we have been told so by a Labour peer, Lord Winston, who was ennobled by Tony Blair as part of his reforms to make the House of Lords more accountable—to take away the hereditary principle and to bring in appointment by Tony instead.
Mae perygl mawr y cawn Lywodraeth drwy dasglu a chynllun gweithredu. Esgus dros beidio â gweithredu yw hynny mewn gwirionedd. Cytunaf ein bod wedi gweld trethi llechwraidd yng nghefn gwlad Cymru gyda thrwyddedau trochi defaid, codi taliadau ar ladd-dai, a chynnydd ym mhrisiau petrol a diesel uwchlaw cyfradd chwyddiant. Mae’r Llywodraeth yn bwrw cymunedau gwledig o ddifrif. Yn ogystal â hynny, mae problemau swyddfeydd post gwledig a’r ymdeimlad o berthyn i gymuned sydd yn cael ei ddinistrio yng nghefn gwlad Cymru. Mae’r rhain yn faterion gwirioneddol y mae pobl yng Nghymru am inni eu trafod. Nid ydynt am inni feddwl am ddim ond proses cynhwysiant cymdeithasol. Maent am weld cyflawni rhywbeth a hyd yn hyn mae’r Cynulliad hwn, a’r weinyddiaeth hon yn arbennig, wedi methu mynd â’r maen i’r wal. Mae arnom angen dadl ar y gwasanaeth iechyd. Clywsom yr Ysgrifennydd Iechyd a Gwasanaethau Cymdeithasol yn siarad am hynny heddiw ond gwyddom fod argyfwng yn y gwasanaeth iechyd. Wedi’r cwbl, dywedwyd hynny wrthym gan arglwydd Llafur, yr Arglwydd Winston, a urddwyd gan Tony Blair fel rhan o’i ddiwygiadau i wneud Tŷ’r Arglwyddi’n fwy atebol—i ddileu’r egwyddor etifeddol a chyflwyno penodi gan Tony yn ei lle.
Dafydd Elis-Thomas The Presiding Officer spoken in English p. 71
Dafydd Elis-Thomas Y Llywydd siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 71
Order. I have a great interest in the House of Lords and its future, but you only have three minutes in which to speak.
Trefn. Mae gennyf ddiddordeb mawr yn Nhŷ’r Arglwyddi a’i ddyfodol, ond nid oes gennych ond tri munud i siarad.
We would welcome a debate on the health service. We would welcome a debate on European funding. We would certainly welcome a debate on the rural crisis. We would welcome an urgent debate on council tax increases. These are the issues that matter to the people of Wales. People who hold surgeries as I do in mid and west Wales—
Croesawem ddadl ar y gwasanaeth iechyd. Croesawem ddadl ar ariannu Ewropeaidd. Byddem yn sicr o groesawu dadl ar yr argyfwng gwledig. Croesawem ddadl frys ar y codiadau yn nhreth y cyngor. Dyma’r materion sydd o bwys i bobl Cymru. Mae rhai sydd yn cynnal cymorthfeydd fel y gwnaf fi yng nghanolbarth a gorllewin Cymru—
Rosemary Butler a gododd—
Rosemary Butler rose—
You do not, Rosemary. You are not a Member for Mid and West Wales. You might have a word with one of your Cabinet colleagues about that.
Nid ydych chi, Rosemary. Nid ydych yn Aelod dros Ganolbarth a Gorllewin Cymru. Efallai y dylech gael gair ag un o’ch cydweithwyr yn y Cabinet am hynny.
I hold surgeries and know that these are issues that matter to the people of rural Wales. They do not want this continuing obsession with process and talking about procedures. They want delivery and want it now. Let us have real debates on real issues and we may even find some real solutions.
Cynhaliaf gymorthfeydd a gwn fod y rhain yn faterion sydd o bwys i bobl cefn gwlad Cymru. Nid ydynt am gael yr obsesiwn parhaus hwn â phroses a siarad am weithdrefnau. Maent am weld cyflawni rhywbeth ac maent am gael hynny’n awr. Gadewch inni gael dadleuon gwirioneddol ar faterion gwirioneddol ac efallai y byddwn hyd yn oed yn canfod rhai atebion gwirioneddol.
Thank you, Nick, for giving me perhaps the best way in to this debate. It is fair to say that you were not that interested in the subject of social inclusion or social exclusion. You want to redefine the phrase ‘social inclusion’ as a surrogate term for every unsolved problem in Wales, so that you can list a litany of problems that we have not solved in the seven or eight months of our existence. Social inclusion is a flexible phrase but I do not think that it should be used quite so flexibly. It is a definite issue that relates to how we help those communities that, subjectively and objectively, have serious problems. It is about how in the public sector—in our new institution of the Assembly—we try to release the energies in the communities that start off at the bottom of the heap and on the other side of the tracks, or even, in the worst cases, on the other side of the other side of the tracks. In ten years’ time we would like to think that if these communities have the energy to raise themselves by their own bootstraps, with our assistance, they will not be across the tracks but rather a part of modern society.
Diolch i chi, Nick, am gyflwyno’r ffordd orau imi efallai i mewn i’r ddadl hon. Teg yw dweud nad oedd gennych gymaint â hynny o ddiddordeb ym mhwnc cynhwysiant cymdeithasol neu allgáu cymdeithasol. Yr ydych am ailddiffinio’r ymadrodd ‘cynhwysiant cymdeithasol’ fel term i’w ddefnyddio am bob problem sydd heb ei datrys yng Nghymru, fel y gallwch roi rhestr o broblemau nad ydym wedi eu datrys yn saith neu wyth mis ein bodolaeth. Mae cynhwysiant cymdeithasol yn ymadrodd hyblyg ond ni chredaf y dylid ei ddefnyddio mor hyblyg â hynny. Mae’n fater penodol sydd yn ymwneud â’r modd yr ydym yn helpu’r cymunedau hynny sydd â phroblemau difrifol, yn oddrychol ac yn wrthrychol. Mae’n ymwneud â’r modd yr ydym ni yn y sector cyhoeddus—yn sefydliad newydd y Cynulliad—yn ceisio rhyddhau egni yn y cymunedau sydd yn dechrau ar waelod y domen ac ym mhen tlotaf y dref, neu hyd yn oed, yn yr achosion gwaethaf, ym mhen tlotaf pen tlotaf y dref. Ymhen deng mlynedd hoffem feddwl na fydd y cymunedau hyn yn y pen tlotaf bellach, os cânt yr egni i godi’u hunain gerfydd careiau eu hesgidiau, gyda’n cymorth ni, ond y byddant yn rhan o gymdeithas fodern.
That is what social inclusion is about. It is not about every problem. We do not want to downplay the problems Nick mentioned, such as the rural issue, but not every problem falls under the heading of social inclusion. Otherwise, words will become meaningless. This is a way of trying to get around that. The problem that Nick raised is how long should we go on talking about social inclusion so that we can define it and have the support of all four parties in the Assembly, and how long should we try to define it, map it and agree on the social indicators so that we know what we are talking about. There seems to be a divide but I am not sure how extensive it is here today. Everybody accepts that the baseline must be measured now so that we know what progress, or a lack of progress, we have made in five years’ time.
Dyna sydd dan sylw mewn cynhwysiant cymdeithasol. Nid yw’n ymwneud â phob problem. Nid ydym am fychanu’r problemau y soniodd Nick amdanynt, fel y mater gwledig, ond ni ddaw pob problem o dan bennawd cynhwysiant cymdeithasol. Fel arall, bydd geiriau’n troi’n ddiystyr. Mae hyn yn fodd o geisio osgoi hynny. Y broblem a gododd Nick yw am ba hyd y dylem barhau i siarad am gynhwysiant cymdeithasol fel y gallwn ei ddiffinio a chael cefnogaeth pob un o’r pedair plaid yn y Cynulliad, ac am ba hyd y dylem geisio ei ddiffinio, ei fapio a chytuno ar y dangosyddion cymdeithasol fel y gwyddom am beth yr ydym yn sôn. Ymddengys fod agendor ond nid wyf yn sicr pa mor fawr ydyw yma heddiw. Mae pawb yn derbyn bod rhaid mesur y llinell sylfaen yn awr fel y byddwn yn gwybod pa gynnydd, neu ddiffyg cynnydd, a wnaethom ymhen pum mlynedd.
We support David Melding’s amendment 4, which is clear about wanting to set targets. That means that the baseline must be measured so that we can see where we are today and where we expect to be. That gives us some measure of success or failure when an evaluation is carried out in five or ten years’ time. I appreciate that people can become bored when listening to talk about baseline indicators and evaluation in five years’ time. It sounds boring and more like a sociology seminar than real politics. However, if it is not done, how can we achieve amendment 4?
Cefnogwn welliant 4 David Melding, sydd yn glir ynghylch dymuno pennu targedau. Mae hynny’n golygu bod rhaid mesur y llinell sylfaen fel y gallwn weld lle’r ydym heddiw ac ym mhle y disgwyliwn fod. Mae hynny’n rhoi rhyw fesur o lwyddiant neu fethiant pan gyflawnir gwerthusiad ymhen pum neu ddeng mlynedd. Gwerthfawrogaf fod pobl yn dechrau diflasu wrth glywed sôn am ddangosyddion llinell sylfaen a gwerthuso ymhen pum mlynedd. Mae’n swnio’n ddiflas ac yn debycach i seminar cymdeithaseg nag i wleidyddiaeth wirioneddol. Fodd bynnag, os na wneir hyn, sut y gallwn gyflawni gwelliant 4?
I have here a copy of ‘Mapping Social Exclusion in Wales’, which was issued by the Statistical Directorate of the Welsh Office in June 1999. It is an excellent document. It has, if not all of the baselines, the majority that we may want to use as indicators. We have the baselines, we now want the targets.
Mae gennyf gopi yma o ‘Mapping Social Exclusion in Wales’, a gyhoeddwyd gan Gyfarwyddiaeth Ystadegol y Swyddfa Gymreig ym Mehefin 1999. Mae’n ddogfen ragorol. Mae’n cynnwys y rhan fwyaf, os nad y cwbl, o’r llinellau sylfaen y gallem fod am eu defnyddio fel dangosyddion. Mae’r llinellau sylfaen gennym, yn awr mae arnom angen y targedau.
I agree. However, that does not solve the problem I referred to; even when targets are set people can say, ‘this is boring, stop talking about targets, we now want action.’ We all appreciate that. You must see that to attempt to evaluate whether we have been successful in a few years’ time we must be able to say that that is from where we started and this is where we think we are now because we have remeasured.
Cytunaf. Fodd bynnag, nid yw hynny’n datrys y broblem y cyfeiriais ati; hyd yn oed pan bennir targedau gall pobl ddweud, ‘mae hyn yn ddiflas, rhowch y gorau i sôn am dargedau, yr ydym am gael gweithredu yn awr’. Gwerthfawrogwn hynny. Rhaid ichi dderbyn, er mwyn ceisio gwerthuso a fuom yn llwyddiannus ymhen ychydig flynyddoedd, y bydd yn rhaid inni allu dweud mai yma y cychwynasom a dyma’r lle y credwn inni ei gyrraedd yn awr am ein bod wedi ailfesur.
Jane Davidson raised an interesting point about subjective indicators. How can we include the fact that some communities say they are on the other side of the tracks, and feel that they are excluded from society in general because of their position? We are not only talking about poverty, but about the feeling of being excluded, which is difficult to measure. However, all of us probably have some such areas in our constituencies.
Cododd Jane Davidson bwynt diddorol ynghylch dangosyddion goddrychol. Sut y gallwn gynnwys y ffaith bod rhai cymunedau’n dweud eu bod yn y pen tlotaf, ac yn teimlo eu bod wedi eu heithrio o gymdeithas yn gyffredinol oherwydd eu sefyllfa? Nid ydym yn sôn am dlodi’n unig, ond am y teimlad o ddieithrwch, sydd yn anodd ei fesur. Fodd bynnag, mae’n fwy na thebyg bod gan bawb ohonom rai ardaloedd o’r fath yn ein hetholaethau.
Is Rhodri Morgan aware of many communities that feel socially excluded but are not economically poor? I am not.
A ŵyr Rhodri Morgan am lawer o gymunedau sydd yn teimlo allgáu cymdeithasol heb fod yn economaidd dlawd? Ni wn i.
I agree with the point in general but exclusion is not the same as poverty. There are examples of poverty in communities that we would not call communities across the tracks. We are attempting to intervene in the across the tracks communities, but that is distinct from solving every example of poverty everywhere in Wales.
Cytunaf â’r pwynt yn gyffredinol ond nid yw dieithrwch yn gyfystyr â thlodi. Mae enghreifftiau o dlodi mewn cymunedau na fyddem yn eu galw’n rhai sydd ym mhen tlotaf y dref. Yr ydym yn ceisio ymyrryd yn y cymunedau yn y pen tlotaf, ond mae hynny’n wahanol i ddatrys pob enghraifft o dlodi ym mhobman yng Nghymru.
We have to do this by a technique that avoids stigmatising those communities. I do not believe that we should name communities and say, ‘this is a community that we know is at the bottom of the heap’. That makes it more difficult for those communities. Instead of tapping into their energies you are stigmatising them. You are saying, for example, ‘if you are the local carpet shop, for God’s sake do not give credit to anyone who comes in from that particular council estate who wants a carpet for their flat because they have got a job’. That is the wrong approach. We must attempt to find and tap into energies within such communities and to release their resources through credit unions and other assistance programmes to help them along. However, it should not be like the Hampstead dinner party discussing what to do about the problem of the poor. The people in those communities should realise that, with our assistance, they can raise themselves by their own bootstraps.
Rhaid inni wneud hyn drwy dechneg sydd yn osgoi gwarthnodi’r cymunedau hynny. Ni chredaf y dylem enwi cymunedau a dweud, ‘mae hon yn gymuned y gwyddom ei bod ar waelod y domen’. Mae hynny’n ei gwneud yn fwy anodd i’r cymunedau hynny. Yn lle cyfranogi o’u hegni yr ydych yn eu gwarthnodi. Yr ydych yn dweud, er enghraifft, ‘os mai chi sydd biau’r siop garpedi leol, peidiwch er mwyn popeth â rhoi credyd i rywun a ddaw o’r stad gyngor arbennig honno sydd am gael carped i’w fflat am fod ganddo swydd’. Mae’r ymagwedd honno yn anghywir. Rhaid inni geisio canfod a chyfranogi o’r egni oddi mewn i gymunedau o’r fath a rhyddhau eu hadnoddau drwy undebau credyd a rhaglenni cymorth eraill i roi hwb ymlaen iddynt. Fodd bynnag, ni ddylai fod fel y cinio gwadd yn Hampstead yn trafod beth i’w wneud ynghylch problem y tlodion. Dylai’r bobl yn y cymunedau hynny sylweddoli y gallant, gyda’n cymorth ni, godi’u hunain gerfydd careiau eu hesgidiau.
Nothing that has been said in this debate has changed our mind about the amendments—we support all but one of them. I hope all four parties now agree that we will move very shortly to action. However, we are attempting today to get general agreement on the indicators that we will use, and on the general aim of this Assembly being to assist those communities to act for themselves, and not for them to have things done for them by people outside. We will support all the amendments bar one—amendment 1 is too wishy-washy—and I hope we will have general consent on the motion.
Ni ddywedwyd dim yn y ddadl hon sydd wedi newid ein meddwl ynghylch y gwelliannau—cefnogwn y cwbl heblaw un. Gobeithiaf y bydd pob un o’r pedair plaid bellach yn cytuno y byddwn yn dechrau gweithredu’n fuan iawn. Fodd bynnag, heddiw yr ydym yn ceisio cael cytundeb cyffredinol ar y dangosyddion y byddwn yn eu defnyddio, ac ar nod cyffredinol y Cynulliad hwn i helpu’r cymunedau hynny i weithredu drostynt hwy eu hunain, ac nid i bobl o’r tu allan wneud pethau drostynt. Byddwn yn cefnogi’r holl welliannau heblaw un—mae gwelliant 1 yn rhy dila—a gobeithiaf y bydd gennym gydsyniad cyffredinol ar y cynnig.
Gwelliant 1 David Melding t. 75
Amendment 1 David Melding p. 75
GwrthodwydRejected O blaidFor 13 YmatalAbstain 0 Yn erbynAgainst 42
Gwrthodwyd y gwelliant.
Amendment rejected.
Sut y pleidleisiodd yr AelodauHow Members voted
O blaidFor (13)
- Mick Bates
- Peter Black
- Nick Bourne
- David Davies
- Glyn Davies
- Michael German
- William Graham
- Christine Humphreys
- David Melding
- Jonathan Morgan
- Jenny Randerson
- Peter Rogers
- Kirsty Williams
Yn erbynAgainst (42)
- Lorraine Barrett
- Rosemary Butler
- Christine Chapman
- Cynog Dafis
- Andrew Davies
- Geraint Davies
- Janet Davies
- Jocelyn Davies
- Richard Edwards
- Sue Essex
- Val Feld
- Brian Gibbons
- Janice Gregory
- John Griffiths
- Christine Gwyther
- Alison Halford
- Edwina Hart
- Brian Hancock
- Jane Hutt
- Pauline Jarman
- Ann Jones
- Carwyn Jones
- Elin Jones
- Gareth Jones
- Helen Mary Jones
- Ieuan Wyn Jones
- Peter Law
- Huw Lewis
- David Lloyd
- John Marek
- Alun Michael
- Tom Middlehurst
- Rhodri Morgan
- Lynne Neagle
- Alun Pugh
- Janet Ryder
- Karen Sinclair
- Gwenda Thomas
- Rhodri Glyn Thomas
- Owen John Thomas
- Dafydd Wigley
- Phil Williams
Gwelliant 2 Helen Mary Jones t. 75
Amendment 2 Helen Mary Jones p. 75
DerbyniwydAdopted O blaidFor 48 YmatalAbstain 7 Yn erbynAgainst 0
Derbyniwyd y gwelliant.
Amendment adopted.
Sut y pleidleisiodd yr AelodauHow Members voted
O blaidFor (48)
- Lorraine Barrett
- Mick Bates
- Peter Black
- Rosemary Butler
- Christine Chapman
- Cynog Dafis
- Andrew Davies
- Geraint Davies
- Janet Davies
- Jocelyn Davies
- Richard Edwards
- Sue Essex
- Val Feld
- Michael German
- Brian Gibbons
- Janice Gregory
- John Griffiths
- Christine Gwyther
- Alison Halford
- Brian Hancock
- Edwina Hart
- Christine Humphreys
- Jane Hutt
- Pauline Jarman
- Ann Jones
- Carwyn Jones
- Elin Jones
- Gareth Jones
- Helen Mary Jones
- Ieuan Wyn Jones
- Peter Law
- Huw Lewis
- David Lloyd
- John Marek
- Alun Michael
- Tom Middlehurst
- Rhodri Morgan
- Lynne Neagle
- Alun Pugh
- Jenny Randerson
- Janet Ryder
- Karen Sinclair
- Gwenda Thomas
- Owen John Thomas
- Rhodri Glyn Thomas
- Dafydd Wigley
- Kirsty Williams
- Phil Williams
YmatalAbstain (7)
- Nick Bourne
- David Davies
- Glyn Davies
- William Graham
- David Melding
- Jonathan Morgan
- Peter Rogers
Gwelliant 3 Helen Mary Jones t. 76
Amendment 3 Helen Mary Jones p. 76
DerbyniwydAdopted O blaidFor 55 YmatalAbstain 0 Yn erbynAgainst 0
Derbyniwyd y gwelliant.
Amendment adopted.
Sut y pleidleisiodd yr AelodauHow Members voted
O blaidFor (55)
- Lorraine Barrett
- Mick Bates
- Peter Black
- Nick Bourne
- Rosemary Butler
- Christine Chapman
- Cynog Dafis
- Andrew Davies
- David Davies
- Geraint Davies
- Glyn Davies
- Janet Davies
- Jocelyn Davies
- Richard Edwards
- Sue Essex
- Val Feld
- Michael German
- Brian Gibbons
- William Graham
- Janice Gregory
- John Griffiths
- Christine Gwyther
- Alison Halford
- Brian Hancock
- Edwina Hart
- Christine Humphreys
- Jane Hutt
- Pauline Jarman
- Ann Jones
- Carwyn Jones
- Elin Jones
- Gareth Jones
- Helen Mary Jones
- Ieuan Wyn Jones
- Peter Law
- Huw Lewis
- David Lloyd
- John Marek
- David Melding
- Alun Michael
- Tom Middlehurst
- Jonathan Morgan
- Rhodri Morgan
- Lynne Neagle
- Alun Pugh
- Jenny Randerson
- Peter Rogers
- Janet Ryder
- Karen Sinclair
- Gwenda Thomas
- Owen John Thomas
- Rhodri Glyn Thomas
- Dafydd Wigley
- Kirsty Williams
- Phil Williams
Gwelliant 4 David Melding t. 77
Amendment 4 David Melding p. 77
DerbyniwydAdopted O blaidFor 55 YmatalAbstain 0 Yn erbynAgainst 0
Derbyniwyd y gwelliant.
Amendment adopted.
Sut y pleidleisiodd yr AelodauHow Members voted
O blaidFor (55)
- Lorraine Barrett
- Mick Bates
- Peter Black
- Nick Bourne
- Rosemary Butler
- Christine Chapman
- Cynog Dafis
- Andrew Davies
- David Davies
- Geraint Davies
- Glyn Davies
- Janet Davies
- Jocelyn Davies
- Richard Edwards
- Sue Essex
- Val Feld
- Michael German
- Brian Gibbons
- William Graham
- Janice Gregory
- John Griffiths
- Christine Gwyther
- Alison Halford
- Brian Hancock
- Edwina Hart
- Christine Humphreys
- Jane Hutt
- Pauline Jarman
- Ann Jones
- Carwyn Jones
- Elin Jones
- Gareth Jones
- Helen Mary Jones
- Ieuan Wyn Jones
- Peter Law
- Huw Lewis
- David Lloyd
- John Marek
- David Melding
- Alun Michael
- Tom Middlehurst
- Jonathan Morgan
- Rhodri Morgan
- Lynne Neagle
- Alun Pugh
- Jenny Randerson
- Peter Rogers
- Janet Ryder
- Karen Sinclair
- Gwenda Thomas
- Owen John Thomas
- Rhodri Glyn Thomas
- Dafydd Wigley
- Kirsty Williams
- Phil Williams
Gwelliant 5 Kirsty Williams t. 78
Amendment 5 Kirsty Williams p. 78
DerbyniwydAdopted O blaidFor 56 YmatalAbstain 0 Yn erbynAgainst 0
Derbyniwyd y gwelliant.
Amendment adopted.
Sut y pleidleisiodd yr AelodauHow Members voted
O blaidFor (56)
- Lorraine Barrett
- Mick Bates
- Peter Black
- Nick Bourne
- Rosemary Butler
- Alun Cairns
- Christine Chapman
- Cynog Dafis
- Andrew Davies
- David Davies
- Geraint Davies
- Glyn Davies
- Janet Davies
- Jocelyn Davies
- Richard Edwards
- Sue Essex
- Val Feld
- Michael German
- Brian Gibbons
- William Graham
- Janice Gregory
- John Griffiths
- Christine Gwyther
- Alison Halford
- Brian Hancock
- Edwina Hart
- Christine Humphreys
- Jane Hutt
- Pauline Jarman
- Ann Jones
- Carwyn Jones
- Elin Jones
- Gareth Jones
- Helen Mary Jones
- Ieuan Wyn Jones
- Peter Law
- Huw Lewis
- David Lloyd
- John Marek
- David Melding
- Alun Michael
- Tom Middlehurst
- Jonathan Morgan
- Rhodri Morgan
- Lynne Neagle
- Alun Pugh
- Jenny Randerson
- Peter Rogers
- Janet Ryder
- Karen Sinclair
- Gwenda Thomas
- Owen John Thomas
- Rhodri Glyn Thomas
- Dafydd Wigley
- Kirsty Williams
- Phil Williams
Gwelliant 6 Kirsty Williams t. 79
Amendment 6 Kirsty Williams p. 79
DerbyniwydAdopted O blaidFor 56 YmatalAbstain 0 Yn erbynAgainst 0
Derbyniwyd y gwelliant.
Amendment adopted.
Sut y pleidleisiodd yr AelodauHow Members voted
O blaidFor (56)
- Lorraine Barrett
- Mick Bates
- Peter Black
- Nick Bourne
- Rosemary Butler
- Alun Cairns
- Christine Chapman
- Cynog Dafis
- Andrew Davies
- David Davies
- Geraint Davies
- Glyn Davies
- Janet Davies
- Jocelyn Davies
- Richard Edwards
- Sue Essex
- Val Feld
- Michael German
- Brian Gibbons
- William Graham
- Janice Gregory
- John Griffiths
- Christine Gwyther
- Alison Halford
- Brian Hancock
- Edwina Hart
- Christine Humphreys
- Jane Hutt
- Pauline Jarman
- Ann Jones
- Carwyn Jones
- Elin Jones
- Gareth Jones
- Helen Mary Jones
- Ieuan Wyn Jones
- Peter Law
- Huw Lewis
- David Lloyd
- John Marek
- David Melding
- Alun Michael
- Tom Middlehurst
- Jonathan Morgan
- Rhodri Morgan
- Lynne Neagle
- Alun Pugh
- Jenny Randerson
- Peter Rogers
- Janet Ryder
- Karen Sinclair
- Gwenda Thomas
- Owen John Thomas
- Rhodri Glyn Thomas
- Dafydd Wigley
- Kirsty Williams
- Phil Williams
Cynnig wedi’i ddiwygio Jane Hutt t. 82
Amended motion Jane Hutt p. 82
DerbyniwydAdopted O blaidFor 56 YmatalAbstain 0 Yn erbynAgainst 0
Derbyniwyd y cynnig wedi’i ddiwygio.
Amended motion adopted.
Sut y pleidleisiodd yr AelodauHow Members voted
O blaidFor (56)
- Lorraine Barrett
- Mick Bates
- Peter Black
- Nick Bourne
- Rosemary Butler
- Alun Cairns
- Christine Chapman
- Cynog Dafis
- Andrew Davies
- David Davies
- Geraint Davies
- Glyn Davies
- Janet Davies
- Jocelyn Davies
- Richard Edwards
- Sue Essex
- Val Feld
- Michael German
- Brian Gibbons
- William Graham
- Janice Gregory
- John Griffiths
- Christine Gwyther
- Alison Halford
- Brian Hancock
- Edwina Hart
- Christine Humphreys
- Jane Hutt
- Pauline Jarman
- Ann Jones
- Carwyn Jones
- Elin Jones
- Gareth Jones
- Helen Mary Jones
- Ieuan Wyn Jones
- Peter Law
- Huw Lewis
- David Lloyd
- John Marek
- David Melding
- Alun Michael
- Tom Middlehurst
- Jonathan Morgan
- Rhodri Morgan
- Lynne Neagle
- Alun Pugh
- Jenny Randerson
- Peter Rogers
- Janet Ryder
- Karen Sinclair
- Gwenda Thomas
- Owen John Thomas
- Rhodri Glyn Thomas
- Dafydd Wigley
- Kirsty Williams
- Phil Williams
Gorchymyn Tai (Hawl i Brynu) (Blaenoriaeth Arwystlon) (Cymru) 2000
Housing (Right to Buy) (Priority of Charges) (Wales) Order 2000
Peter Law The Secretary for the Environment and Local Government spoken in English p. 83
Peter Law Ysgrifennydd yr Amgylchedd a Llywodraeth Leol siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 83
I propose that the Assembly
Cynigiaf fod y Cynulliad
Peter Law The Secretary for the Environment and Local Government (continued) spoken in English p. 83
Peter Law Ysgrifennydd yr Amgylchedd a Llywodraeth Leol (parhad) siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 83
This is a technical Order which is intended to specify the three limited companies named in the Order as approved lending institutions under section 156 of the Housing Act 1985. The Order has no effect on the wider operation of the right to buy nor on the position of tenants or landlords generally. As Members may be aware, all or part of the discount given on right-to-buy sales is repayable to the landlord if the dwelling is resold within three years. The Housing Act 1985 provides that the local authority’s right to recover discount is secured by a first charge on the dwelling, unless an approved lending institution has made a secured loan to enable the purchaser to buy the dwelling, in which case the approved lending institution’s charge has priority over the local authority’s charge. Building societies, banks and insurance companies are specified as approved lending institutions under the Act. Other bodies can apply to be specified by Order.
Gorchymyn technegol yw hwn y bwriedir iddo ddynodi’r tri chwmni cyfyngedig a enwir yn y Gorchymyn fel sefydliadau benthyca cymeradwyedig o dan adran 156 o’r Ddeddf Tai 1985. Nid yw’r Gorchymyn yn effeithio ar weithrediad ehangach yr hawl i brynu nac ar sefyllfa tenantiaid neu landlordiaid yn gyffredinol. Fel y gŵyr yr Aelodau efallai, mae’r cwbl neu ran o’r disgownt a roddir ar werthiannau hawl-i-brynu i’w ad-dalu i’r landlord os ailwerthir yr annedd o fewn tair blynedd. Mae’r Ddeddf Tai 1985 yn rhagamodi y caiff hawl yr awdurdod lleol i adfer disgownt ei gwarantu drwy arwystl cyntaf ar yr annedd, oni bai fod sefydliad benthyca cymeradwyedig wedi rhoi benthyciad gwarantedig i alluogi’r prynwr i brynu’r annedd, ac os felly caiff arwystl y sefydliad benthyca cymeradwyedig flaenoriaeth dros arwystl yr awdurdod lleol. Dynodir cymdeithasau adeiladu, banciau a chwmnïau yswiriant yn sefydliadau benthyca cymeradwyedig o dan y Ddeddf. Caiff cyrff eraill ymgeisio i gael eu dynodi drwy Orchymyn.
The three companies listed in the Order, Mortgages 1 Limited, Mortgages 2 Limited and Mortgages 4 Limited have applied to be specified as approved lending institutions in England and Wales. The companies were granted approved lending institution status in England on 16 November under statutory instrument 1999 No. 2919. The Order before us today would similarly grant the companies approved lending status in Wales. In processing these applications investigations have been undertaken with the Office of Fair Trading, as the applicants’ regulator, and Companies House to ensure that applicants are properly constituted, adequately resourced, and that there is nothing to suggest that they are unlikely to conduct their business in a respectable manner.
Mae’r tri chwmni a restrir yn y Gorchymyn, Mortgages 1 Limited, Mortgages 2 Limited a Mortgages 4 Limited wedi ymgeisio i gael eu dynodi’n sefydliadau benthyca cymeradwyedig yng Nghymru a Lloegr. Rhoddwyd statws sefydliad benthyciad cymeradwyedig i’r cwmnïau yn Lloegr ar 16 Tachwedd o dan offeryn statudol 1999 Rhif 2919. Byddai’r Gorchymyn sydd ger ein bron heddiw yn rhoi statws benthyca cymeradwyedig i’r cwmnïau yn yr un modd yng Nghymru. Wrth brosesu’r ceisiadau hyn ymgymerwyd ag ymchwiliadau gyda’r Swyddfa Masnachu Teg, fel rheolydd yr ymgeiswyr, a Thŷ’r Cwmnïau i sicrhau bod yr ymgeiswyr wedi eu cyfansoddi’n briodol, bod ganddynt adnoddau digonol, ac nad oes dim i awgrymu eu bod yn annhebygol o gynnal eu busnes mewn modd gweddus.
As Members are aware, the Assembly is not a financial services regulator and the grant of approved lending status should not be seen as a general badge of approval. However, we are satisfied that the vetting procedure, although not infallible, provides a reasonable safeguard against undesirable companies being specified as approved lending institutions. The checks for the three companies concerned have proved to be satisfactory and I commend the motion to approve the technical Order.
Fel y gŵyr yr Aelodau, nid yw’r Cynulliad yn rheolydd gwasanaethau ariannol ac ni ddylid ystyried rhoi statws benthyca cymeradwyedig yn sêl bendith gyffredinol. Fodd bynnag, yr ydym yn argyhoeddedig bod y weithdrefn archwilio, er nad yw’n anffaeledig, yn amddiffyniad rhesymol rhag dynodi cwmnïau annymunol yn sefydliadau benthyca cymeradwyedig. Mae’r gwiriadau ar y tri chwmni wedi profi’n foddhaol a chymeradwyaf y cynnig i gymeradwyo’r Gorchymyn technegol.
DerbyniwydAdopted O blaidFor 45 YmatalAbstain 0 Yn erbynAgainst 0
Derbyniwyd y cynnig.
Motion adopted.
Sut y pleidleisiodd yr AelodauHow Members voted
O blaidFor (45)
- Lorraine Barrett
- Mick Bates
- Peter Black
- Rosemary Butler
- Alun Cairns
- Christine Chapman
- Andrew Davies
- David Davies
- Geraint Davies
- Glyn Davies
- Janet Davies
- Richard Edwards
- Sue Essex
- Val Feld
- Michael German
- Brian Gibbons
- Janice Gregory
- John Griffiths
- Christine Gwyther
- Alison Halford
- Brian Hancock
- Edwina Hart
- Christine Humphreys
- Jane Hutt
- Pauline Jarman
- Ann Jones
- Carwyn Jones
- Elin Jones
- Ieuan Wyn Jones
- Peter Law
- Huw Lewis
- David Lloyd
- John Marek
- David Melding
- Alun Michael
- Tom Middlehurst
- Rhodri Morgan
- Lynne Neagle
- Alun Pugh
- Janet Ryder
- Karen Sinclair
- Gwenda Thomas
- Owen John Thomas
- Dafydd Wigley
- Kirsty Williams
Dadl Fer
Short Debate
Y Cymoedd, Heddiw ac Yfory
The Valleys, Today and Tomorrow
Geraint Davies siaradwyd yn Gymraeg ac yn Saesneg t. 85
Geraint Davies spoken in Welsh and English p. 85
Yn dilyn traddodiad, yr wyf wedi cytuno y gall Peter Black, Alun Cairns ac Owen John Thomas wneud cyfraniad byr ar ôl fy nghyfraniad i.
in Welsh Following tradition, I have agreed that Peter Black, Alun Cairns and Owen John Thomas may make a brief contribution after mine.
This is the second debate that I and my party have called on the future of the Valleys in the last two months. We make no apology for that. In the past century, the people of the Valleys heard a procession of politicians and public figures pronounce on their problems. Edward VIII summed it up in the only sentence of his that anyone can remember, ‘something must be done’. Politicians have since managed to create an illusion of doing things. We have had Peter Walker’s cosmetic Valleys initiative, Michael Heseltine’s garden festival and Peter Hain’s laudable, but fruitless attempt to get the issues taken seriously. Others have happily ignored the Valleys and sown their seeds in more fertile ground. Nicholas Edwards and his successors pumped hundreds of millions of pounds into Cardiff’s overheating economy and encouraged massive inward investment on green-field sites along the M4 corridor.
yn Saesneg Hon yw’r ail ddadl yr wyf fi a’m plaid wedi galw amdani ar ddyfodol y Cymoedd yn y ddeufis diwethaf. Nid ymddiheurwn am hynny. Yn y ganrif ddiwethaf, clywodd pobl y Cymoedd wleidyddion a ffigyrau cyhoeddus, un ar ôl y llall, yn traethu ar eu problemau. Crynhôdd Edward VIII y cwbl yn yr unig frawddeg o’i eiddo y gall neb ei chofio, ‘rhaid gwneud rhywbeth’. Ers hynny mae gwleidyddion wedi llwyddo i roi’r gamargraff eu bod yn gwneud rhywbeth. Cawsom fenter arwynebol Peter Walker yn y Cymoedd, gŵyl gerddi Michael Heseltine ac ymdrech ganmoladwy, ond ofer Peter Hain i sicrhau sylw difrifol i’r materion pwysig. Bu eraill yn ddigon hapus i anwybyddu’r Cymoedd a hau eu hadau ar dir mwy ffrwythlon. Pwmpiodd Nicholas Edwards a’i olynwyr gannoedd o filiynau o bunnoedd i economi gor-boeth Caerdydd ac annog mewnfuddsoddi enfawr ar safleoedd tir glas ar hyd coridor yr M4.
Arguably, all these interventions have exacerbated rather than ameliorated the Valley’s problems. Their proponents, on the other hand, have all moved on to higher and better things. The Assembly does not have the luxury of abdicating, of moving up the Whitehall ladder or escaping to the House of Lords—present company excepted.
yn Saesneg Gellir dadlau bod yr holl ymyriadau hyn wedi gwaethygu yn hytrach nag wedi lliniaru problemau’r Cymoedd. Mae’r rhai a’u cynigiodd, fodd bynnag, wedi symud ymlaen i borfeydd brasach. Nid oes gan y Cynulliad mo’r moethusrwydd o ymddeol, o ddringo ysgol Whitehall neu ddianc i Dŷ’r Arglwyddi—heb gyfeirio at neb sydd yma.
The Valleys are home to nearly a third of Wales’s electorate—a concentration of citizens that dwarfs the total for Cardiff, Swansea, Newport and Wrexham. The future of Wales and the party of government in the Assembly will depend to a great extent on the steps taken in the next few years to revitalise this long-suffering region.
yn Saesneg Mae’r Cymoedd yn gartref i bron un rhan o dair o etholwyr Cymru—crynhoad o ddinasyddion sydd yn fwy o lawer na’r cyfanswm ar gyfer Caerdydd, Abertawe, Casnewydd a Wrecsam. Bydd dyfodol Cymru a phlaid y llywodraeth yn y Cynulliad yn dibynnu i raddau helaeth ar y camau a gymerir yn y blynyddoedd nesaf hyn i adfywio’r rhanbarth dioddefgar hwn.
The task facing us is a massive one and it will take massive efforts and resources to achieve it. That task is to revitalise and bring the Valleys, an area described by Professor Kevin Morgan as displaying ‘a noxious cocktail of poverty, poor health, unemployment and despair’, up to the European average of wealth and social inclusion.
yn Saesneg Mae’r dasg sydd o’n blaen yn un enfawr a bydd angen ymdrechion ac adnoddau enfawr i’w chyflawni. Y dasg honno yw adfywio’r Cymoedd, ardal a ddisgrifiwyd gan yr Athro Kevin Morgan fel un oedd yn amlygu ‘coctel gwenwynig o dlodi, iechyd gwael, diweithdra ac anobaith’, a’u codi i’r cyfartaledd Ewropeaidd o ran cyfoeth a chynhwysiant cymdeithasol.
It is not true to say that there is no hope among our young people, but all too often it is the hope of getting on and getting out. This saps any sense of confidence in the future of these communities and this is reflected in the value of real estate. The collapse in house prices means that local people cannot sell their homes, so they rent them out, which in turn leads to a fall in the demand for social housing. There are more and more empty properties on estates, which leads to vandalism, demoralisation and a further decline in the attractiveness of an area and in the value of local property. This is an issue of genuine economic concern when house values are falling by thousands of pounds over a wide area.
yn Saesneg Nid gwir yw dweud nad oes gobaith ymysg ein pobl ifanc, ond yn rhy aml y gobaith o fynd ymlaen a dianc yw hynny. Mae hynny’n ysigo unrhyw ymdeimlad o hyder yn nyfodol y cymunedau hyn ac fe’i hadlewyrchir yng ngwerth eiddo tiriog. Mae’r cwymp ym mhrisiau tai yn golygu na all pobl leol werthu eu cartrefi, felly maent yn eu gosod ar rent, sydd yn ei dro’n arwain at ostyngiad yn y galw am dai cymdeithasol. Mae mwy a mwy o anheddau gweigion ar stadau, sydd yn arwain at fandaliaeth, digalondid a dirywiad pellach yn apêl yr ardal honno ac yng ngwerth yr eiddo lleol. Mae hyn yn fater o bryder economaidd gwirioneddol pan yw gwerthoedd tai’n disgyn filoedd o bunnoedd dros ardal eang.
It is our belief that we can, and should, try to arrest this spiral of social and economic decline. One thing is certain. Business as usual is not the answer to the Valleys’ social and economic woes. The problems of the Valleys today are far too pressing for the status quo to be a viable option. The policies of the past have failed. We must be more imaginative in our search for solutions if we are to meet the unpretentious demands of the people of the Valleys for decent jobs and a better quality of life.
yn Saesneg Ein cred ni yw y gallwn, ac y dylem, geisio atal y dirywiad cymdeithasol ac economaidd hwn. Mae un peth yn sicr. Nid yw busnes fel arfer yn ateb i drafferthion cymdeithasol ac economaidd y Cymoedd. Mae problemau’r Cymoedd heddiw yn llawer rhy ddybryd i’r status quo fod yn ddewis ymarferol. Mae polisïau’r gorffennol wedi methu. Rhaid inni fod yn fwy dyfeisgar yn ein hymchwil am atebion os ydym i ateb galwadau diymhongar pobl y Cymoedd am swyddi gweddus a gwell ansawdd bywyd.
So what can be done? On the economic front, inward investment, welcome though it is, will never be a panacea. Increased competition means that job bonanzas are going to be increasingly rare, and as the LG experience demonstrated, increasingly risky. Inward investment on its own will never be enough to regenerate the Valleys, so we need to devote more attention to the prospects of indigenous development, which means generating new firms and promoting existing ones. Here, the prospects are not as bleak as you might think. In Rhondda Cynon Taff, for example, the rate of new firm ‘births’ in the 1980s was actually higher than the UK rate. Sadly, the 1990s have not been quite so positive. How are we to create a new sense of entrepreneurship in the Valleys and make it an attractive business location for small and medium sized enterprises? To be technical for a moment, the designation of Wales as an Article 87 (3) (a) region under EU state aid regulations opens up to west Wales and the Valleys the possibility of operating aid. This possibility has received considerably less attention than the announcement of the £1.2 billion Objective 1 moneys, but is potentially just as significant.
yn Saesneg Felly beth y gellir ei wneud? O ran yr economi, ni fydd mewnfuddsoddi, er mor dderbyniol ydyw, byth yn ateb i bob problem. Mae cystadlu cynyddol yn golygu y bydd cyfoeth o swyddi yn mynd yn brinnach o hyd, ac fel y dangosodd y profiad â LG, yn fwy amheus o hyd. Ni fydd mewnfuddsoddi ar ei ben ei hun byth yn ddigon i adfywio’r Cymoedd, felly mae angen inni roi mwy o sylw i’r rhagolygon am ddatblygu cynhenid, sydd yn golygu creu busnesau newydd a hybu’r rhai sydd yn bod. Yn hyn o beth, nid yw’r rhagolygon mor ddu ag y gallech ddisgwyl. Yn Rhondda Cynon Taf, er enghraifft, yr oedd cyfradd ‘genedigaethau’ busnesau newydd yn y 1980au yn uwch mewn gwirionedd na chyfradd y DU. Gwaetha’r modd, ni fu’r 1990au mor gadarnhaol. Sut y gallwn greu ymdeimlad newydd o entrepreneuriaeth yn y Cymoedd a’i wneud yn lleoliad busnes deniadol i fusnesau bach a chanolig eu maint? A bod yn dechnegol am eiliad, mae dynodi Cymru’n rhanbarth Erthygl 87 (3) (a) o dan reoliadau cymorth gwladol yr UE yn golygu ei bod yn bosibl i orllewin Cymru a’r Cymoedd dderbyn cymorth gweithredu. Rhoddwyd llai o lawer o sylw i’r posibiliad hwn na’r cyhoeddiad am y £1.2 biliwn o arian Amcan 1, ond gallai fod yr un mor bwysig.
So what does this mean? Operating aid is aimed at reducing a firm’s current operating costs and is usually in the form of a tax concession or reductions in social security contributions. The Swedish Government, for example, offers reduced social security contributions for businesses in northern Scandinavia. The German Government offers tax breaks to companies located in the east German Länder. The Republic of Ireland famously reduced the standard rate of corporation tax for manufacturing and financial service sectors from 36 per cent to 10 per cent with spectacular results.
yn Saesneg Felly beth y mae hyn yn ei olygu? Amcan cymorth gweithredu yw lleihau costau gweithredu cyfredol busnesau ac y mae fel arfer ar ffurf goddefiad treth neu ostyngiadau mewn cyfraniadau nawdd cymdeithasol. Mae Llywodraeth Sweden, er enghraifft, yn cynnig cyfraniadau nawdd cymdeithasol is i fusnesau yng ngogledd Llychlyn. Mae Llywodraeth yr Almaen yn cynnig gostyngiadau treth i gwmnïau a leolir yn Länder dwyrain yr Almaen. Fel y gŵyr llawer, gostyngodd Gweriniaeth Iwerddon gyfradd arferol y dreth gorfforaeth ar gyfer y sectorau cynhyrchu a gwasanaethau ariannol o 36 y cant i 10 y cant gan esgor ar ganlyniadau rhyfeddol.
I do not advocate applying an operating aid regime across the whole of west Wales and the Valleys, however I believe that there is a strong case for a sub-regional enterprise zone offering a range of tax exemptions to businesses in the heads of the Valleys. These new financial inducements would give the local economy a much-needed injection of capital, raise business confidence, create a platform for expansion and provide a degree of competitive advantage to these areas to complement the investment aid now available at the same rate throughout west Wales and the Valleys.
yn Saesneg Nid wyf o blaid cymhwyso cyfundrefn cymorth gweithredu ar draws y cyfan o orllewin Cymru a’r Cymoedd. Fodd bynnag, credaf fod dadl gryf dros ranbarth menter is-ranbarthol sydd yn cynnig amrediad o ryddhadau treth i fusnesau ym mlaenau’r Cymoedd. Byddai’r anogaethau ariannol newydd hyn yn rhoi chwistrelliad mawr ei angen o gyfalaf i’r economi lleol, yn hybu hyder busnesau, yn creu llwyfan ar gyfer ehangu ac yn darparu elfen o fantais gystadleuol i’r ardaloedd hyn i gyflenwi’r cymorth buddsoddi sydd bellach ar gael ar yr un gyfradd ledled gorllewin Cymru a’r Cymoedd.
I understand that some English Objective 1 regions are actively considering the enterprise zone approach, though the civil service of the Assembly is currently opposed to this idea. I hope that this is not another sign of timidity and narrow horizons. We must grasp this unique opportunity and exploit it for all it is worth.
yn Saesneg Deallaf fod rhai rhanbarthau Amcan 1 yn Lloegr wrthi’n ystyried y dull rhanbarthau menter, er bod gwasanaeth sifil y Cynulliad yn gwrthwynebu’r syniad hwn ar hyn o bryd. Gobeithiaf nad yw hyn yn arwydd arall o ofnusrwydd a gorwelion cyfyng. Rhaid inni achub ar y cyfle unigryw hwn a manteisio arno i’r eithaf.
Alongside with SMEs, we must tap the huge potential of community businesses in the social economy sector. In the UK the sector is small—it is estimated to account for between 1.5 to 4 per cent of all jobs. However, according to European Commission estimates, the figure is much higher in other EU countries. In France, for example, the sector accounts for 29 per cent of all employment, in Germany, 23 per cent and in Italy, 25 per cent. Even more importantly, the Commission suggests that the social economy sector grew much more rapidly than the economy as a whole in job terms—11 per cent against 3 per cent in Germany, 15.8 per cent against 4.2 per cent in France, and a massive 39 per cent against 7.4 per cent in Italy. The potential for the expansion of this sector in Wales is thus enormous; nowhere more so than in the Valleys which already boast numerous examples of successful social economy enterprises.
yn Saesneg Ochr yn ochr â busnesau bach a chanolig eu maint, rhaid inni fanteisio ar botensial anferth busnesau cymunedol yn y sector economi cymdeithasol. Yn y DU mae’r sector yn un bach—amcangyfrifir nad yw ond yn cyfrif am rhwng 1.5 i 4 y cant o’r holl swyddi. Fodd bynnag, yn ôl amcangyfrifon y Comisiwn Ewropeaidd, mae’r ffigur yn uwch o lawer mewn gwledydd eraill yn yr UE. Yn Ffrainc, er enghraifft, mae’r sector yn gyfrifol am 29 y cant o’r holl gyflogaeth, yn yr Almaen, 23 y cant ac yn yr Eidal, 25 y cant. Yn bwysicach fyth, mae’r Comisiwn yn awgrymu bod y sector economi cymdeithasol wedi tyfu’n gynt o lawer na’r economi cyfan o ran swyddi—11 y cant o’i gymharu â 3 y cant yn yr Almaen, 15.8 y cant o’i gymharu â 4.2 y cant yn Ffrainc, a’r ffigur anferth o 39 y cant o’i gymharu â 7.4 y cant yn yr Eidal. Felly mae’r potensial ar gyfer twf y sector hwn yng Nghymru yn enfawr; yn y Cymoedd yn anad unman, sydd eisoes ag enghreifftiau niferus o fentrau economi cymdeithasol llwyddiannus.
Lack of finance, more than anything else, holds the sector back. As part of the proposed development bank, we need to create a new financial mechanism to help the not-for-profit sector break out of the cycle of grant chasing and build a more sustainable financial base. We therefore propose the establishment of a loan fund tailored for the sector, that is, a social economy enterprise development fund, or SEED fund, as part of a new development bank, which could offer flexible funding over a sustained period, staged to reflect the changing needs of social enterprises as they move through the development process.
yn Saesneg Mae diffyg cyllid, yn fwy na dim arall, yn rhwystro’r sector hwn. Fel rhan o’r banc datblygu arfaethedig, mae angen inni greu mecanwaith ariannol newydd i helpu’r sector nid-am-elw i dorri allan o’r cylch ceisio grantiau ac adeiladu sylfaen ariannol fwy cynaliadwy. Awgrymwn felly y dylid sefydlu cronfa fenthyciadau bwrpasol ar gyfer y sector, hynny yw, cronfa datblygu mentrau’r economi cymdeithasol, fel rhan o fanc datblygu newydd, a allai gynnig ariannu hyblyg dros gyfnod estynedig, wedi ei rannu er mwyn adlewyrchu anghenion cyfnewidiol mentrau cymdeithasol wrth iddynt symud drwy’r broses datblygu.
As a pharmacist, with many years’ experience in the Valleys, I turn to the issue of quality of life and health care. There are many parts of the UK with poverty and unemployment levels comparable with the Valleys. What is unique about the Valleys is the appalling level of ill-health and its consequence for people’s quality of life. Of the 10 wards in the UK with the worst record of long-term illness, seven are in the Valleys. I regret to say that Maerdy, in my constituency, has the worst record of ill-health in the UK. Health care and development must go hand in hand. People cannot function without adequate health care. That is why we have called for the urgent introduction of community health action zones in the Valleys.
yn Saesneg Fel fferyllydd, â blynyddoedd lawer o brofiad yn y Cymoedd, trof at fater ansawdd bywyd a gofal iechyd. Mae llawer o rannau o’r DU â lefelau tlodi a diweithdra tebyg i rai’r Cymoedd. Yr hyn sydd yn unigryw ynghylch y Cymoedd yw lefel drychinebus iechyd gwael a’i heffaith ar ansawdd bywyd pobl. O blith y 10 ward yn y DU a chanddynt y record waethaf o salwch tymor hir, mae saith yn y Cymoedd. Mae’n ofid imi ddweud mai Maerdy, yn fy etholaeth i, sydd â’r record waethaf o ran iechyd gwael yn y DU. Rhaid i ofal iechyd a datblygu fynd law yn llaw. Ni all pobl weithredu heb ofal iechyd digonol. Dyna pam y galwasom am sefydlu rhanbarthau gweithredu iechyd cymunedol ar frys yn y Cymoedd.
I go further and ask Val Feld and Rhodri Morgan whether they can assure us that Objective 1 funding can be mobilised for health care purposes. Politicians have been eager to launch, but loath to audit, initiatives for the Valleys. That is the problem: initiatives for the Valleys, not with the Valleys. In five, 10 and 20 years’ time the politicians have moved on while the people and their problems remain. We in the Assembly cannot allow this history of neglect to continue. We have a responsibility to all the people of Wales, but as has been said in this Chamber many times, the ultimate test of this Assembly will be the difference it makes to the lives of the most disadvantaged. Nowhere is this more true than in the Valleys.
yn Saesneg Af ymhellach a gofyn i Val Feld a Rhodri Morgan a ydynt yn gallu rhoi sicrwydd i ni y gellir defnyddio arian Amcan 1 i ddibenion gofal iechyd. Bu gwleidyddion yn awyddus i lansio mentrau ar gyfer y Cymoedd, ond yn gyndyn o’u harchwilio. Dyna’r broblem: mentrau ar gyfer y Cymoedd, nid gyda’r Cymoedd. Ymhen pum, 10, ac 20 mlynedd bydd y gwleidyddion wedi symud ymlaen tra bo’r bobl a’u problemau’n aros. Ni allwn ni yn y Cynulliad ganiatáu i’r hanes hwn o esgeulustod barhau. Mae gennym gyfrifoldeb i holl bobl Cymru, ond fel y dywedwyd yn y Siambr hon lawer gwaith, y prawf ar y Cynulliad hwn yn y pen draw fydd y gwahaniaeth a wna ym mywydau’r rhai mwyaf difreintiedig. Mae hynny’n fwy perthnasol i’r Cymoedd nag i unman.
In conclusion, I would like to make two proposals. First, that the executive appoints a member of the Cabinet with ministerial responsibility for the future of the Valleys. We have a Secretary for Agriculture and Rural Development, rightly in view of the crisis facing rural communities, but the people of the Valleys and their crisis demand the same level of commitment and accountability: a secretary not just to expound a vision but to expedite it; to look at all the interacting spheres of policy in health, housing and economic development; to tackle the grave problems of underachievement in education and a transport infrastructure unfit for the twentieth century let alone the twenty-first.
yn Saesneg I derfynu, hoffwn wneud dau awgrym. Yn gyntaf, y dylai’r Weithrediaeth benodi aelod o’r Cabinet fydd â chyfrifoldeb gweinidogol dros ddyfodol y Cymoedd. Mae gennym Ysgrifennydd Amaethyddiaeth a Datblygu Gwledig, a hynny’n briodol yng ngolwg yr argyfwng sydd yn wynebu cymunedau gwledig, ond mae pobl y Cymoedd a’u hargyfwng yn gofyn yr un lefel o ymrwymiad ac atebolrwydd: ysgrifennydd nid yn unig i draethu gweledigaeth ond i’w hyrwyddo; i edrych ar yr holl feysydd polisi rhyngweithiol mewn iechyd, tai a datblygu economaidd; i ymdrin â phroblemau difrifol tangyrhaeddiad mewn addysg a seilwaith trafnidiaeth oedd yn anaddas i’r ugeinfed ganrif heb sôn am yr unfed ar hugain.
Secondly, it is time we developed initiatives with the people of the Valleys, not just for them. After all, it is the aspirations of the people of the Valleys, their hopes for a better and feasible future, that are the driving forces of development. Our most important task will be to inspire, empower and enable those people to have a better future. Let us not fail in that task.
yn Saesneg Yn ail, mae’n bryd inni ddatblygu mentrau gyda phobl y Cymoedd, nid ar eu cyfer yn unig. Wedi’r cwbl, dyheadau pobl y Cymoedd, eu gobeithion am ddyfodol gwell a chredadwy, yw’r grymoedd sydd yn ysgogi datblygu. Ein tasg bwysicaf fydd ysbrydoli, cyfnerthu a galluogi’r bobl hynny i gael gwell dyfodol. Na foed inni fethu yn y dasg honno.
In the previous debate we talked about mapping social exclusion. Geraint did a good job of mapping out the social exclusion of which he knows in the valley communities in south Wales. As I said in a debate before the Christmas recess, the Assembly must co-ordinate and ensure that there is joined-up government to tackle those problems. That has to be seen, not just in the policies that we debate, but in how we allocate resources, particularly in the budget. It is important that we allocate the resources needed to begin to deal with those problems and to put into place the programmes that are needed in those communities.
Yn y ddadl flaenorol soniasom am fapio allgáu cymdeithasol. Llwyddodd Geraint yn dda i fapio’r allgáu cymdeithasol y gŵyr ef amdano yng nghymunedau’r cymoedd yn ne Cymru. Fel y dywedais yn y ddadl cyn toriad y Nadolig, rhaid i’r Cynulliad gydlynu a sicrhau bod llywodraeth gydgysylltiol i fynd i’r afael â’r problemau hyn. Rhaid gweld hynny, nid yn unig yn y polisïau a drafodwn, ond yn y modd y dyrannwn adnoddau, yn enwedig yn y gyllideb. Mae’n bwysig inni ddyrannu’r adnoddau sydd eu hangen er mwyn dechrau ymdrin â’r problemau hynny a sefydlu’r rhaglenni angenrheidiol yn y cymunedau hynny.
I want to highlight one aspect of social exclusion to which Geraint referred, which is the poor housing conditions in those communities. Housing is taking a hammering again in the budget although there is extra money for homelessness. It is regrettable that last week the Secretary for the Environment and Local Government made the point that there is no extra money for housing nor did he expect any. There must be more resources for housing and to tackle the huge problems of housing disrepair that are faced by the Valleys and the rest of Wales. There is a disrepair bill of over £1 billion. It is not only the council houses that are in disrepair but private housing as well. We have yet to see any policies or resources to tackle that problem. We need to have joined-up government but we also need the resources to deliver it. We need to make sure that we do not rule anything out at this stage but that we find the resources and make things happen.
Yr wyf am dynnu sylw at un agwedd ar allgáu cymdeithasol y cyfeiriodd Geraint ati, sef yr amodau tai gwael yn y cymunedau hynny. Mae pwnc tai yn cael ei golbio eto yn y gyllideb er bod arian ychwanegol ar gyfer digartrefedd. Mae’n destun gofid bod Ysgrifennydd yr Amgylchedd a Llywodraeth Leol wedi nodi yr wythnos diwethaf nad oes arian ychwanegol ar gyfer tai ac nad oedd yn disgwyl hynny ychwaith. Rhaid cael mwy o adnoddau ar gyfer tai ac i ymdrin â phroblemau anferthol adfeiliad tai a wynebir gan y Cymoedd a gweddill Cymru. Mae bil adfeiliad o dros £1 biliwn. Nid tai cyngor yw’r unig rai sydd wedi adfeilio ond tai preifat hefyd. Ni welsom eto unrhyw bolisïau neu adnoddau i ymdrin â’r broblem honno. Mae arnom angen llywodraeth gydgysylltiol ond mae arnom angen adnoddau hefyd i’w chyflenwi. Mae angen inni sicrhau nad ydym yn diystyru dim ar hyn o bryd ond ein bod yn canfod yr adnoddau ac yn peri i bethau ddigwydd.
I thank Geraint Davies for giving me a minute to contribute to this short debate. No-one would question the desire of every Assembly Member to improve the quality of life and standard of living in the Valleys. It is important that we are discussing the regeneration of the Valleys on a day when we have debated several issues that will affect the Valleys more than any other part of Wales. I would like to emphasise that the Valleys do not only mean the south Wales Valleys. There are a number of valleys across Wales. The Teifi Valley is of particular interest to many at this time. The Valleys not only cover the industrial parts but some of the rural areas around Wales. Geraint Davies talked about the number of initiatives that worked or did not work, many of them during the last Conservative Government, according to him. I would like to emphasise that although 80,000 jobs were lost in coal and steel in the industrial valleys of south Wales, 80,000 jobs were also created in other industries. These use more modern technologies, in flexible, modern enterprises rather than in the outdated heavy industries.
Diolchaf i Geraint Davies am roi munud imi gyfrannu i’r ddadl fer hon. Ni fyddai neb yn amau dymuniad pob Aelod Cynulliad i wella ansawdd bywyd a safon byw yn y Cymoedd. Mae’n bwysig ein bod yn trafod adfywiad y Cymoedd ar ddiwrnod pan drafodasom nifer o faterion a fydd yn effeithio ar y Cymoedd yn fwy nag unrhyw ran arall o Gymru. Hoffwn bwysleisio nad yw’r Cymoedd ond yn golygu Cymoedd de Cymru. Mae nifer o gymoedd ledled Cymru. Mae Dyffryn Teifi o ddiddordeb arbennig i lawer ar hyn o bryd. Mae’r Cymoedd yn cynnwys nid yn unig y rhannau diwydiannol ond rai o’r ardaloedd gwledig o gwmpas Cymru. Soniodd Geraint Davies am y nifer o fentrau a weithiodd neu na weithiodd, lawer ohonynt yn ystod y Llywodraeth Geidwadol ddiwethaf, meddai ef. Hoffwn bwysleisio er bod 80,000 o swyddi wedi eu colli mewn glo a dur yng nghymoedd diwydiannol de Cymru, crewyd 80,000 o swyddi hefyd mewn diwydiannau eraill. Mae’r rhain yn defnyddio technolegau mwy modern, mewn mentrau hyblyg, modern yn hytrach nag mewn diwydiannau trwm hen-ffasiwn.
Many of today’s debates have touched on Objective 1, regional selective assistance, and Geraint also introduced operating aids. These policies will have the greatest influence on the quality of life in the Valleys. If the administration fails on Objective 1, regional selective assistance and operating aid—and we are yet to see the details of these issues—they will fail the people of the Valleys more than any other part of Wales. That is the fundamental issue about improving the quality of life in the Valleys. Unless we embrace these one-off opportunities, they will be wasted because other opportunities will not come in this way. We have talked about the inward investment that came to the Valleys, which played an enormous part in capturing those 80,000 jobs to replace those lost in coal and steel. The development of indigenous enterprise must now play an equally important role in taking the economy further forward. I am concerned that the policy to abolish the training and enterprise councils, which is a policy to support indigenous enterprise, may well prevent that further development of the smaller businesses and enterprises that we are seeking to develop. The strength of the Valleys comes from within, but we can only correct the deprivation that has existed in the Valleys for too long by supporting those small businesses from in Valleys and using regional selective assistance to balance out and to attract inward investment.
Mae llawer o’r dadleuon heddiw wedi cyffwrdd ag Amcan 1, cymorth rhanbarthol dewisol, a soniodd Geraint hefyd am gymhorthion gweithredu. Bydd y polisïau hyn yn dylanwadu’n helaeth iawn ar ansawdd bywyd yn y Cymoedd. Os metha’r weinyddiaeth ar Amcan 1, cymorth rhanbarthol dewisol a chymorth gweithredu—ac ni welsom eto fanylion y materion hyn—byddant yn siomi pobl y Cymoedd yn fwy nag unrhyw ran arall o Gymru. Dyna’r mater sylfaenol ynghylch gwella ansawdd bywyd yn y Cymoedd. Oni afaelwn yn y cyfleoedd unwaith ac am byth hyn, byddant wedi eu gwastraffu oherwydd ni ddaw cyfleodd eraill fel hyn. Soniasom am y mewnfuddsoddi a ddaeth i’r Cymoedd, a chwaraeodd ran anferth wrth sicrhau’r 80,000 hynny o swyddi i gymryd lle y rhai a gollwyd mewn glo a dur. Rhaid i ddatblygu mentrau cynhenid chwarae rôl yr un mor bwysig wrth fynd â’r economi ymlaen ymhellach. Yr wyf yn bryderus y gallai’r polisi o ddiddymu’r cynghorau hyfforddi a menter, sydd yn bolisi i gefnogi mentrau cynhenid, fod yn fodd i rwystro’r datblygu pellach hwnnw ar fusnesau a mentrau llai yr ydym yn ei geisio. Daw cryfder y Cymoedd oddi mewn, ond ni allwn gywiro’r amddifadedd a fu’n rhy hir yn y Cymoedd heblaw drwy gefnogi’r busnesau bychain hynny yn y Cymoedd a defnyddio cymorth rhanbarthol dewisol i greu cydbwysedd a denu mewnfuddsoddiad.
Owen John Thomas spoken in Welsh and English p. 92
Owen John Thomas siaradwyd yn Gymraeg ac yn Saesneg t. 92
Geraint outlined in detail a balanced, though often painfully true, picture of the Valleys. The balance was created by his vision for the future. An innovative approach is essential to regenerate this crucial region, which is often used to stereotype the whole of Wales. Spiritually we would be a much poorer nation without the Valleys. Their sons and daughters have contributed so much to Wales, and indeed the world. They have given generously but received a pitiful reward. In the 50 years up to the First World War, coal from the Valleys shipped from port of Cardiff supplied 25 per cent of the world’s export of that commodity. For three-quarters of a century, the Valleys were to coal as the Middle East is to oil today.
yn Saesneg Amlinellodd Geraint ddarlun o’r Cymoedd oedd yn fanwl, yn gytbwys, ond yn boenus o wir yn aml. Crewyd y cydbwysedd drwy ei weledigaeth ar gyfer y dyfodol. Mae ymagwedd arloesol yn holl bwysig er mwyn adfywio’r rhanbarth tyngedfennol hwn, a ddefnyddir yn aml i stereoteipio Cymru gyfan. Yn ysbrydol byddem yn genedl lawer tlotach heb y Cymoedd. Mae eu meibion a’u merched wedi cyfrannu cymaint i Gymru, a’r byd yn wir. Rhoesant yn hael ond yr oedd eu gwobr yn bitw. Yn y 50 mlynedd cyn y Rhyfel Byd Cyntaf, yr oedd glo o’r Cymoedd a gariwyd gan longau o borthladd Caerdydd yn cyflenwi 25 y cant o allforion y byd o’r adnodd hwnnw. Am dri chwarter canrif, yr oedd y berthynas rhwng y Cymoedd a glo yr un fath â hynny rhwng y Dwyrain Canol ac olew heddiw.
The story of the Valleys has not been one of wealth but of sacrifice. Thousands of Valley miners lost their lives in the process of making others rich. Tens of thousands more suffered, and still suffer, agonising chest diseases as a result of their labours. In small self-governing countries like Sweden, the wealth of the mines gave birth to secondary industry. In the dependency of Wales, the Valleys were compelled to have all their eggs in one basket: to be exploited and then discarded.
yn Saesneg Hanes o aberth yn hytrach nag o gyfoeth yw un y Cymoedd. Collodd miloedd o lowyr y Cymoedd eu bywydau wrth greu cyfoeth i eraill. Dioddefodd degau o filoedd yn ychwaneg, ac maent yn dal i ddioddef, o glefydau arteithiol ar y frest o ganlyniad i’w llafur. Mewn gwledydd bychain ymreolus fel Sweden, esgorodd y glofeydd ar ddiwydiant eilaidd. Yn nhiriogaeth ddibynnol Cymru, gorfodwyd y Cymoedd i roi eu holl wyau yn yr un fasged: i’w defnyddio a’u taflu wedyn.
Between the two great wars, the Valleys lost 0.5 million people—one fifth of the Welsh population at that time. Between 1925 and 1985, the Rhondda alone saw a drop of 100,000 in its population. There is a political lesson to be learned from the history of the Valleys. It could be summed up by the maxim,
yn Saesneg Rhwng y ddau ryfel mawr, collodd y Cymoedd 0.5 miliwn o bobl—un rhan o bump o boblogaeth Cymru ar y pryd. Rhwng 1925 a 1985, gwelwyd gostyngiad o 100,000 ym mhoblogaeth y Rhondda yn unig. Mae gwers wleidyddol i’w dysgu o hanes y Cymoedd. Gellid ei chrynhoi yn y ddihareb,
‘There never lived a nation yet that ruled another well.’
yn Saesneg ‘Ni fu eto wlad a reolodd arall wlad yn dda.’
Can there be any other explanation for the failure of 80 years of Labour local government in the Valleys and 80 years of Labour MPs at Westminster? What have they done other than put the interests of the central party first?
yn Saesneg A oes eglurhad arall posibl am fethiant 80 mlynedd o lywodraeth leol Lafur yn y Cymoedd a 80 mlynedd o ASau Llafur yn San Steffan? Beth a wnaethant heblaw rhoi buddiannau y blaid ganolog yn gyntaf?
The presence of Geraint Davies and eight other Plaid Cymru AMs who represent Valley constituencies in this Chamber today is testimony to the fact that the people of Wales have had enough of being kept down by the dead hand of centralism. They want their interests put first for a change. They want hope. They want the Objective 1 funding their economic condition deserves. They want the Government of Wales and the Government of the UK to match the recognition of the European Community. This former Welsh Klondike has given so much and has received so little in return. Evasions and obstructions to justice for the people of the Valleys are insulting, patronising and unworthy of this national institution.
yn Saesneg Mae presenoldeb Geraint Davies ac wyth AC Plaid Cymru arall sydd yn cynrychioli etholaethau’r Cymoedd yn y Siambr hon heddiw yn dyst o’r ffaith bod pobl Cymru wedi syrffedu ar gael eu gormesu gan law farw canoliaeth. Maent am weld eu buddiannau’n cael eu rhoi’n gyntaf am unwaith. Maent am gael gobaith. Maent am gael yr arian Amcan 1 y mae eu cyflwr economaidd yn ei deilyngu. Maent am weld Llywodraeth Cymru a Llywodraeth y DU yn rhoi’r un gydnabyddiaeth â’r Gymuned Ewropeaidd. Mae’r hen Glondeic Cymru hwn wedi rhoi cymaint ac wedi derbyn cyn lleied yn ôl. Mae osgoi a rhwystro cyfiawnder i bobl y Cymoedd yn sarhaus, yn wasaidd ac yn annheilwng o’r sefydliad cenedlaethol hwn.
Cafodd pob Aelod Cynulliad ei ethol i wasanaethu’r bobl, nid ei blaid wleidyddol. Yn y Cymoedd, o bob man, mae angen ein cefnogaeth unedig. Ni fydd y rhai sydd yn dewis rhoi eu teyrngarwch yn rhywle arall yn cael eu hedmygu gan neb. Gellir crynhoi’r sefyllfa yn dwt ac yn addas gyda hen ddywediad Morgannwg, ‘Cas gŵr na châr y wlad a’i maco’.
in Welsh Every Assembly Member was elected to serve the people, not his or her political party. In the Valleys, especially, our united support is needed. Those who choose to place their loyalty elsewhere will not be admired by anyone. The situation can be summarised succinctly and aptly by an old Glamorgan saying, ‘Loathed be he that loveth not his native land’.
Rhodri Morgan Yr Ysgrifennydd Datblygu Economaidd siaradwyd yn Gymraeg ac yn Saesneg t. 93
Rhodri Morgan The Secretary for Economic Development spoken in Welsh and English p. 93
Mae’r ddadl hon bron yn estyniad o’r ddadl flaenorol ar gynhwysiant ac allgáu cymdeithasol.
in Welsh This debate is almost an extension of the previous debate on social inclusion and exclusion.
It is a pleasure to be winding up this debate because it is a subject that affects—and I do not accept Alun Cairns’s geographical definition of the Valleys—the Valleys of industrial south Wales. Geraint Davies probably did not mean the Valleys around Rhosllanerchrugog in the Wrexham area, which are remarkably similar to those of the south. We are talking about the south Wales Valleys. The population figures of around 800,000 are those of the Valleys of Gwent, Glamorgan and eastern Carmarthenshire.
yn Saesneg Pleser yw dod â’r ddadl hon i ben oherwydd mae’n bwnc sydd yn effeithio—ac ni dderbyniaf ddiffiniad daearyddol Alun Cairns o’r Cymoedd—ar Gymoedd y de Cymru diwydiannol. Mae’n fwy na thebyg nad oedd Geraint Davies yn golygu’r cymoedd o gwmpas Rhosllanerchrugog yn ardal Wrecsam, sydd yn hynod debyg i rai’r de. Yr ydym yn sôn am Gymoedd de Cymru. Y ffigurau poblogaeth o tua 800,000 yw’r rhai am Gymoedd Gwent, Morgannwg a dwyrain Sir Gaerfyrddin.
Geraint Davies started in a fascinating way by referring to the famous comment made by Edward VIII just after he was made King but before he abdicated, ‘something must be done’. He referred to many other famous people like Peter Walker, Peter Hain and others who have made various statements on Valleys initiatives. However, I think when he used the phrase, ‘they went to sow their seeds in more fertile ground’, he was referring to Nicholas Edwards and the Cardiff Bay barrage and not Edward VIII’s subsequent marriage to Mrs Wallace Simpson.
yn Saesneg Dechreuodd Geraint Davies yn ddiddorol drwy gyfeirio at y sylw enwog gan Edward VIII yn union ar ôl cael ei wneud yn Frenin ond cyn iddo ymddiorseddu, ‘rhaid gwneud rhywbeth’. Cyfeiriodd at lawer o enwogion eraill fel Peter Walker, Peter Hain ac eraill a wnaeth wahanol ddatganiadau ar fentrau yn y Cymoedd. Fodd bynnag, credaf ei fod wrth ddefnyddio’r ymadrodd, ‘aethant i hau eu hadau ar dir mwy ffrwythlon’, yn cyfeirio at Nicholas Edwards a morglawdd Bae Caerdydd ac nid at briodas Edward VIII wedyn â Mrs Wallace Simpson.
I was also pleased that Geraint Davies’s message was not entirely one of doom and gloom. He referred to the healthy rate of business start-ups in the 1980s. I want to refer to unemployment. The situation is not good or wonderful and I would never claim that. However, it is not that bad either. We should put it into context. From November 1998 to November 1999, the fall in unemployment in the Valleys has been higher than in Wales and the UK as a whole. It starts from a higher level, but even so we should celebrate the fact that it is not all doom and gloom in the Valleys and that the Valleys definitely have a future. The fall from November 1998 to November 1999 was 15.1 per cent in the Valleys, 12.3 per cent in Wales as a whole and 10.6 per cent in the UK. The fall in the long-term unemployed was pretty much average. The fall in the Valleys since May 1997 is not as good. However, there is little difference, with a 27.5 per cent drop in claimant unemployment in the Valleys and a 29.2 per cent in the UK as a whole.
yn Saesneg Yr oeddwn hefyd yn falch nad oedd neges Geraint Davies yn un o dristwch a gwae yn unig. Cyfeiriodd at y gyfradd sefydlu busnesau iach yn y 1980au. Yr wyf am gyfeirio at ddiweithdra. Nid yw’r sefyllfa’n dda neu’n wych ac ni fyddwn byth yn honni hynny. Fodd bynnag, nid yw cyn waethed â hynny ychwaith. Dylem ei roi yn ei gyd-destun. O Dachwedd 1998 i Dachwedd 1999, bu’r gostyngiad mewn diweithdra yn y Cymoedd yn uwch nag yng Nghymru a’r DU yn gyffredinol. Mae’n dechrau ar lefel uwch, ond er hynny dylem ddathlu’r ffaith nad yw popeth yn ddu yn y Cymoedd a’i bod yn sicr bod dyfodol i’r Cymoedd. Yr oedd y gostyngiad o Dachwedd 1998 i Dachwedd 1999 yn 15.1 y cant yn y Cymoedd, yn 12.3 y cant yng Nghymru gyfan ac yn 10.6 y cant yn y DU. Yr oedd y gostyngiad mewn diweithdra tymor hir yn eithaf agos i’r cyfartaledd. Nid yw’r gostyngiad yn y Cymoedd ers Mai 1997 gystal. Fodd bynnag, mae’r gwahaniaeth yn un bychan, gyda gostyngiad o 27.5 y cant mewn diwethdra ymysg hawlwyr budd-dal yn y Cymoedd ac o 29.2 y cant yn y DU gyfan.
In 1966, when I was a young civil servant in the infant Welsh Office, which was roughly at the same stage as the Assembly today, the employment situation in the Valleys was very much the subject of conversation. We were drawing up ‘Wales: the way ahead’ and there were pit closures at the rate of two or three a week. At that time, there were 100,000 coal miners in Wales, around 5,000 in north Wales and 95,000 in south Wales, but they were disappearing. The price of oil was 25 cents a barrel and coal could not compete. Mines were closing at an incredible rate per week, not per year.
yn Saesneg Yn 1966, pan oeddwn yn was sifil ifanc yn y Swyddfa Gymreig newydd, oedd yn yr un cyfnod yn ei datblygiad â’r Cynulliad heddiw, yr oedd y sefyllfa diweithdra yn y Cymoedd yn destun sgwrs cyffredin iawn. Yr oeddem yn llunio ‘Wales: the way ahead’ ac yr oedd glofeydd yn cau fesul dwy neu dair yr wythnos. Bryd hynny, yr oedd 100,000 o lowyr yng Nghymru, tua 5,000 yng ngogledd Cymru a 95,000 yn ne Cymru, ond yr oeddent yn diflannu. Pris olew oedd 25 sent y gasgen ac ni allai glo gystadlu. Yr oedd glofeydd yn cau ar gyfradd ryfeddol yr wythnos, nid y flwyddyn.
The issue was what to do with the Valleys. Could we reasonably expect to increase job numbers in the Valleys at a rate that was in any way comparable with the rate of job losses from coal mining? Or did we have to face the Valleys becoming more and more like commuter suburbs for either M4 belt new industrial estates like the Royal Mint area of Llantrisant or the area around Bridgend? People from the Ogmore, the Garw and Llynfi would then travel down towards the M4 at Bridgend and people from the Rhondda would travel down towards Cardiff, or at least as far as Llantrisant, for new industrial employment.
yn Saesneg Y cwestiwn oedd beth i’w wneud â’r Cymoedd. A oedd yn rhesymol inni ddisgwyl cynyddu nifer y swyddi yn y Cymoedd ar gyfradd oedd yn debyg o gwbl i gyfradd y colledion swyddi yn y glofeydd? Ynteu a oedd yn rhaid inni wynebu gweld y Cymoedd yn mynd yn debycach i faestrefi i gymudwyr ar gyfer y stadau diwydiannol newydd ar hyd yr M4 fel ardal y Bathdy Brenhinol yn Llantrisant neu’r ardal o amgylch Pen-y-bont ar Ogwr? Byddai pobl o gymoedd Ogwr, Garw a Llynfi yn teithio wedyn tua’r M4 ym Mhen-y-bont ar Ogwr a byddai pobl o’r Rhondda’n teithio i lawr tua Chaerdydd, neu o leiaf cyn belled â Llantrisant, ar gyfer cyflogaeth mewn diwydannau newydd.
That was the issue then, and in some ways it still is. However, 34 years later, it is possible to say that whatever else you can say about the Valleys, they have not become the Klondike that Owen John Thomas mentioned. The Klondike had a very good period when there was gold mining but, as far as I am aware, it is now a ghost town. No-one can say that the Valleys of south Wales have become ghost towns. They have problems but they have not been abandoned like the Klondike, although it may be a tourist attraction today. However, that was the fear in 1966. If people lost their coal mine employment, did they have a future at all? We said that they did, and we will struggle to make their future one which the local employment level in the pit village is the same as before. It may be a mixture of local small-scale employment where the valleys are wide enough to cope with it, such as around Aberdare and Maesteg, where there is no constricted narrow valley formation. It is possible to attract big industry, but you cannot do that in every valley. You can imagine big employers moving into some of the 19 valleys in Wales, but with others it will be more difficult and there will be some increased commuting.
yn Saesneg Dyna oedd y cwestiwn bryd hynny, a’r un ydyw o hyd mewn rhai ffyrdd. Fodd bynnag, 34 mlynedd yn ddiweddarach, ni waeth beth arall a ddywedwch am y Cymoedd, gellir dweud nad ydynt wedi mynd yn debyg i’r Clondeic y soniodd Owen John Thomas amdano. Bu’n dda iawn ar y Clondeic ar un cyfnod pan oedd cloddio am aur ond, hyd y gwn i, tref anghyfannedd ydyw yn awr. Ni all neb ddweud bod Cymoedd de Cymru wedi mynd yn drefi anghyfannedd. Mae ganddynt broblemau ond nid yw pawb wedi cefnu arnynt fel y Clondeic, er ei fod efallai’n atynfa i dwristiaid heddiw. Fodd bynnag, dyna oedd yr ofn yn 1966. Os collai pobl eu gwaith yn y glofeydd, a oedd dyfodol iddynt o gwbl? Dywedasom fod, ac y byddem yn ymdrechu i wneud eu dyfodol yn un lle’r oedd y lefel gyflogaeth leol ym mhentref y pwll glo yr un fath â chynt. Gallai fod yn gymysgedd o gyflogaeth leol ar raddfa fechan lle y mae’r cymoedd yn ddigon llydan i ddygymod â hi, fel y rhai o amgylch Aberdâr a Maesteg, lle nad oes ffurfiant cwm cul a chyfyng. Mae modd denu diwydiannau mawr, ond ni allwch wneud hynny ym mhob cwm. Gallwch ddychmygu cyflogwyr mawr yn symud i rai o’r 19 o gymoedd yng Nghymru, ond bydd yn anos mewn cymoedd eraill a bydd rhywfaint o gynnydd mewn cymudo.
Geraint mentioned the problems with LG Electronics. I understand his point on the problems with the semiconductor side of LG. However, my understanding of the figures from LG Electronics is that of the 3,000 people working there, the same number reside in Caerphilly Borough Council areas as in Newport. Therefore, when you put a mega employer on the M4, you will find that as many people from the Valleys will end up working there as those from the coastal belt. It is not all loss when we talk about companies like LG.
yn Saesneg Soniodd Geraint am y problemau gyda LG Electronics. Deallaf ei bwynt am y problemau ynglŷn ag ochr lled-ddargludyddion LG. Fodd bynnag, o’r hyn a ddeallaf o’r ffigurau o LG Electronics, o blith y 3,000 o bobl sydd yn gweithio yno, mae’r un nifer yn byw yn ardaloedd Cyngor Bwrdeistref Caerffili ag yng Nghasnewydd. Felly, pan rowch archgyflogwr ar yr M4, gwelwch y bydd cynifer o bobl o’r Cymoedd yn gweithio yno yn y pen draw ag o bobl yr arfordir. Nid colled yn unig yw hi wrth inni sôn am gwmnïau fel LG.
I was pleased to hear Geraint say that we should look more closely at the social economy and at indigenous employment although I prefer the phrase ‘home-grown’ employment. There are already some good home-grown employers in the Valleys. I will mention some of the best known ones that have done extremely well over the last years. Firms like International Greetings in the Rhymney Valley and Caerbont Automative further west, which survived as a spin off of Lucas SEI, which has now gone. That was Geraint’s point; if the firm is locally owned and does not belong to a multinational, it will stay and fight for new markets. However, another company owned by a global multinational might migrate elsewhere, for example, to Poland as Lucas SEI did. Other examples of home-grown firms are Stephens & George and TBS in Merthyr Tydfil. There are many successful home-grown enterprises employing hundreds of people in the Valleys. I accept that it is still not enough; we need to treble that number. When we talk to International Greetings about their future prospects and commitment to the Valleys, we know that if we had 25 firms like them, the Valleys would not have any problems. We also know the benefits of inward investment in the Valleys by firms like General Electric and their offshoots in Blackwood, Bedwas and Nantgarw. By this summer, I am told that there will be 2,000 people working in the three General Electrics plants.
yn Saesneg Yr oedd yn dda gennyf glywed Geraint yn dweud y dylem edrych yn fanylach ar yr economi cymdeithasol a chyflogaeth gynhenid er ei bod yn well gennyf yr ymadrodd cyflogaeth ‘gartref’. Ceir rhai cyflogwyr cartref da yn y Cymoedd eisoes. Soniaf am rai o’r rhai mwyaf adnabyddus a wnaeth yn dda dros ben yn ystod y blynyddoedd diwethaf. Cwmnïau fel International Greetings yng Nghwm Rhymni a Caerbont Automotive ymhellach i’r gorllewin, a oroesodd fel busnesau a ddatblygodd yn sgîl Lucas SEI, sydd bellach wedi mynd. Dyna oedd pwynt Geraint; os yw’r busnes dan berchnogaeth leol ac nid yn eiddo i gwmni rhyngwladol, bydd yn aros ac yn ymladd am farchnadoedd newydd. Fodd bynnag, gallai cwmni arall dan berchnogaeth cwmni rhyngwladol byd-eang symud i rywle arall, er enghraifft, i Wlad Pwyl fel yn achos Lucas SEI. Enghreifftiau eraill o fusnesau cartref yw Stephens & George a TBS ym Merthyr Tudful. Mae llawer o fentrau cartref llwyddiannus sydd yn cyflogi cannoedd o bobl yn y Cymoedd. Derbyniaf nad yw hynny’n ddigon eto; mae angen inni dreblu’r nifer honno. Wrth inni siarad ag International Greetings am eu rhagolygon ar gyfer y dyfodol a’u hymrwymiad i’r Cymoedd, gwyddom pe bai gennym 25 cwmni fel hwy, na fyddai gan y Cymoedd unrhyw broblemau. Gwyddom oll am fanteision mewnfuddsoddi yn y Cymoedd gan gwmnïau fel General Electric a’u canghennau yn y Coed Duon, Bedwas a Nantgarw. Erbyn yr haf, dywedir wrthyf y bydd 2,000 o bobl yn gweithio yn nhri gwaith General Electric.
There is an aerospace sector in the Rhymney and Sirhywi valleys. We do not only have the three GE plants. We also have Nordam, British Airways Interiors and Britax Rumbold, which has recently joined them in Cwmbran, although Geraint might not agree that Cwmbran is in the Valleys. We now have seven plants in the aerospace sector in the Gwent valleys. That is a tremendous achievement, which shows that we would have been totally wrong to write off the Valleys as having a future only in commuting, as some of the more extreme, trendy town planners wanted to do in 1966. Some extreme planners said that there was not even a future there for commuting purposes and that the best thing to do was demolish the towns, flood the valleys to form reservoirs or return them to their state of natural beauty for use as tourist traps. In other words, the Klondike solution—convert them, or allow them to decline into ghost towns. We did not do that in 1966. Labour introduced the Housing Act 1969, which brought about improvement grants. The shells of houses that were made out of millstone grit would never fall apart, so it was just a case of improving the facilities within those houses.
yn Saesneg Mae sector awyrofod yng nghymoedd Rhymni a Sirhywi. Nid yn unig y mae gennym dri gwaith GE. Mae gennym hefyd Nordam, British Airways Interiors a Britax Rumbold, a ddaeth atynt yn ddiweddar yng Nghwmbrân, er ei bod yn bosibl nad yw Geraint yn cytuno bod Cwmbrân yn y Cymoedd. Bellach mae gennym saith gwaith yn y sector awyrofod yng nghymoedd Gwent. Mae hynny’n gamp aruthrol, sydd yn dangos mai cwbl anghywir fuasai diystyru’r Cymoedd a dweud mai mewn cymudo yr oedd eu hunig ddyfodol, fel yr oedd rhai o’r cynllunwyr tref ffasiynol, mwy eithafol am wneud yn 1966. Dywedodd rhai cynllunwyr eithafol nad oedd dyfodol iddynt hyd yn oed i ddibenion cymudo ac mai’r peth gorau fyddai dymchwel y trefi, boddi’r cymoedd i wneud cronfeydd neu eu troi’n ôl i’w cyflwr o brydferthwch naturiol i’w defnyddio fel atynfeydd i dwristiaid. Mewn geiriau eraill, ateb y Clondeic—eu trawsnewid, neu gadael iddynt ddirywio’n drefi anghyfannedd. Ni wnaethom hynny yn 1966. Cyflwynodd Llafur Ddeddf Tai 1969, a ddaeth â grantiau gwella i fod. Ni fyddai cragenni tai a wnaethpwyd o rut melinfaen byth yn ymddatod, felly’r cwbl oedd yn angenrheidiol oedd gwella’r cyfleusterau yn y tai hynny.
There have been tremendous achievements in stabilising the Valleys. It is not enough; we accept that. Much more must be done to drive up the social economy contribution. We must be realistic when talking about big employers. They may well be located in Newport, on the M4 belt through Bridgend and further west down to Penllergaer where International Rectifiers is situated and where, I am sure, some people from the Swansea and Amman valleys work.
yn Saesneg Cafwyd cyflawniadau aruthrol wrth sefydlogi’r Cymoedd. Nid yw’n ddigon; derbyniwn hynny. Rhaid gwneud llawer mwy i hybu cyfraniad yr economi cymdeithasol. Rhaid inni fod yn realistig wrth sôn am gyflogwyr mawr. Gallent fod wedi’u lleoli yng Nghasnewydd yn ddigon rhwydd, ar lain yr M4 drwy Ben-y-bont ar Ogwr ac ymhellach i’r gorllewin ym Mhenllergaer lle y mae International Rectifiers a lle, yr wyf yn sicr, mae rhai pobl o gymoedd Abertawe ac Aman yn gweithio.
Geraint mentioned health. The Valleys have a particular health problem, which appears to be different even from that of the monocultural former coal and steel areas of north-east England, central Scotland and south Yorkshire. There appears to be an extra factor at work in the Valleys, but we do not know from where it comes. We do not know whether it is genetic or whether it relates to poor housing and the dependency on pre-1914 housing. We do not know, but there appears to be—in Professor Kevin Morgan’s words, which Geraint quoted—‘a noxious cocktail of poverty, poor health, unemployment and despair’. It is a unique problem that we must address.
yn Saesneg Cyfeiriodd Geraint at iechyd. Mae gan y Cymoedd broblem iechyd neilltuol, yr ymddengys ei bod yn wahanol hyd yn oed i’r hyn a geir yng nghyn-ardaloedd glo a dur unddiwydiannol gogledd-ddwyrain Lloegr, canolbarth yr Alban a de Swydd Efrog. Ymddengys fod ffactor ychwanegol ar waith yn y Cymoedd, ond ni wyddom o ble y daw. Ni wyddom a yw’n enetig ynteu a yw’n ymwneud â thai gwael a’r ddibyniaeth ar dai cyn-1914. Ni wyddom, ond ymddengys fod—yng ngeiriau’r Athro Kevin Morgan, a ddyfynnodd Geraint—‘coctel gwenwynig o dlodi, iechyd gwael, diweithdra ac anobaith’. Mae’n broblem unigryw y mae’n rhaid inni fynd i’r afael â hi.
I was asked a question, although I am not sure that I can fully answer it, about whether health care could receive Objective 1 money. It will be able to touch on that, but Objective 1 funding must not replace conventional health expenditure. I believe that it will be applied along the same principles as those that apply to the national lottery new opportunities fund, which can fund the extras such as health promotion and health related to wealth creation. If health creation and wealth creation could be married together, Objective 1 would be able to assist. However, it cannot assist with the provision of beds in hospitals or the provision of prescriptions through pharmacies, because that is not linked directly to wealth creation, which is what Objective 1 is about. It is about breaking the cycle of deprivation which has held the Valleys back and has given them a high proportion of ill-health and the problems that were referred to in the previous debate.
yn Saesneg Gofynnwyd cwestiwn i mi, er nad wyf yn sicr y gallaf ei ateb yn llawn, ynghylch a oes modd i ofal iechyd dderbyn arian Amcan 1. Bydd yn gallu cyffwrdd â hynny, ond ni chaiff arian Amcan 1 gymryd lle gwariant iechyd confensiynol. Credaf y caiff ei drin yn ôl yr un egwyddorion â’r rhai a gymhwysir i gronfa cyfleoedd newydd y lotri genedlaethol, a all ariannu’r pethau ychwanegol fel hybu iechyd a iechyd sydd yn gysylltiedig â chreu cyfoeth. Os gellid cyplysu creu iechyd a chreu cyfoeth, byddai Amcan 1 yn gallu cynorthwyo. Fodd bynnag, ni all gynorthwyo i ddarparu gwelyau mewn ysbytai neu i ddarparu presgripsiynau drwy fferyllfeydd, oherwydd nid yw hynny’n ymwneud yn uniongyrchol â chreu cyfoeth, sef pwrpas Amcan 1. Mae’n ymwneud â thorri’r cylch o amddifadedd a rwystrodd y Cymoedd a rhoi iddynt gyfran uchel o iechyd gwael a’r problemau y cyfeiriwyd atynt yn y ddadl flaenorol.
However, the Valleys have some of the best examples of urban regeneration in Wales. I have visited some of these, and I am sure that most members of the Cabinet have visited others and that Members have visited some in their constituencies. People who live in the Valleys now realise that there is a future after coal. They realise that they must tap into their own resources of energy and determination to ensure that there is a new economic future after coal, through the social economy, the new enterprise economy and a more judicious mixture of inward investment and local home-grown enterprises. We must help them. We have seen the urban and social regeneration that the people of the Valleys are achieving for themselves with assistance from others. They have not had it imposed on them from the outside, from London, Cardiff, Newport or anywhere else—it has been achieved by and for the people of the Valleys. The Valleys’ future lies in the people taking control of their own lives with assistance from the Assembly’s budget, London’s budget and European funding.
yn Saesneg Fodd bynnag, mae gan y Cymoedd rai o’r enghreifftiau gorau o adfywiad trefol yng Nghymru. Ymwelais â rhai o’r rhain, ac yr wyf yn sicr bod y rhan fwyaf o aelodau’r Cabinet wedi ymweld ag eraill a bod yr Aelodau wedi ymweld â rhai yn eu hetholaethau. Mae’r bobl sydd yn byw yn y Cymoedd yn deall bellach fod dyfodol ar ôl glo. Sylweddolant y bydd yn rhaid iddynt fynd at eu hadnoddau eu hunain o ran egni a phenderfyniad er mwyn sicrhau bod dyfodol economaidd newydd ar ôl glo, drwy’r economi cymdeithasol, yr economi menter newydd a chymysgedd mwy synhwyrol o fewnfuddsoddi a mentrau cartref lleol. Rhaid inni eu helpu. Gwelsom yr adfywiad trefol a chymdeithasol y mae pobl y Cymoedd yn ei gyflawni drostynt eu hunain gyda chymorth eraill. Nid yw wedi ei orfodi arnynt o’r tu allan, o Lundain, Caerdydd, Casnewydd neu unlle arall—fe’i cyflawnwyd gan a dros bobl y Cymoedd. Mae dyfodol y Cymoedd yn dibynnu ar allu’r bobl i ymgymryd â rheolaeth dros eu bywydau eu hunain gyda chymorth o gyllideb y Cynulliad, cyllideb Llundain ac arian Ewropeaidd.
I am pleased that I was among those in 1966 who argued against abandoning the Valleys to a fate as commuting villages and retirement areas, and said that they had a vibrant economic future. That has not happened yet, but it will happen over the next five or 10 years.
yn Saesneg Yr wyf yn falch o ddweud fy mod ymysg y rhai hynny yn 1966 a ddadleuodd yn erbyn gadael y Cymoedd i’r dynged o fod yn bentrefi cymudo ac ardaloedd ymddeol, ac a ddywedodd bod iddynt ddyfodol economaidd bywiog. Ni ddigwyddodd hynny eto, ond bydd yn digwydd dros y pum neu 10 mlynedd nesaf.
Daeth y cyfarfod i ben am 5.30 p.m.
The session ended at 5.30 p.m.