Cynulliad Cenedlaethol CymruNational Assembly for Wales · Cyfarfod llawnPlenary sitting
Dydd Mercher 9 Chwefror 2000
Wednesday 9 February 2000
CynnwysContents
- 3Cwestiynau i Ysgrifennydd yr Amgylchedd a Llywodraeth LeolQuestions to the Secretary for the Environment and Local Government
- 11Pwynt o DrefnPoint of Order
- 13Cymeradwyo Rheoliadau Cyngor Datblygu Llaeth (Gwelliant)Approval of the Milk Development Council (Amendment) Regulations 1 bleidlais1 vote
- 17Cynnig o Ddiffyg HyderMotion of No Confidence 1 bleidlais1 vote
- 33Cynnig TrefniadolProcedural Motion 1 bleidlais1 vote
- 35Datganiad ar Ymddiswyddiad y Prif YsgrifennyddStatement on the First Secretary’s Resignation
- 35Datganiad gan y Prif Ysgrifennydd GweithredolStatement by the Acting First Secretary
PleidleisiauVotes
| PleidlaisVote | O blaidFor | YmatalAbstain | Yn erbynAgainst | CanlyniadResult |
|---|---|---|---|---|
| Cymeradwyo Rheoliadau Cyngor Datblygu Llaeth (Gwelliant)Approval of the Milk Development Council (Amendment) Regulations | ||||
| CynnigMotion | 59 | 0 | 0 | DerbyniwydAdopted |
| Cynnig o Ddiffyg HyderMotion of No Confidence | ||||
| PleidlaisVote | 31 | 1 | 27 | DerbyniwydAdopted |
| Cynnig TrefniadolProcedural Motion | ||||
| Cynnig trefniadolProcedural motion | 55 | 0 | 0 | DerbyniwydAdopted |
TrafodionProceedings
Cyfarfu’r Cynulliad am 2 p.m. gyda’r Llywydd yn y Gadair
The Assembly met at 2 p.m. with the Presiding Officer in the Chair
Cwestiynau i Ysgrifennydd yr Amgylchedd a Llywodraeth Leol
Questions to the Secretary for the Environment and Local Government
Cynnig ar y Strategaeth Dai
Housing Strategy Motion
What progress has been made in implementing the housing strategy motion adopted by the Assembly on 2 November 1999? (OAQ3468)
Pa gynnydd a wnaethpwyd o ran rhoi ar waith y cynnig ar y strategaeth dai a basiwyd gan y Cynulliad ar 2 Tachwedd 1999? (OAQ3468)
Peter Law The Secretary for the Environment and Local Government spoken in English p. 3
Peter Law Ysgrifennydd yr Amgylchedd a Llywodraeth Leol siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 3
The interim progress reports of the four task groups that we have established to take forward the development of a national housing strategy were considered by the Environment and Local Government Committee on 27 January. The work of the task groups is progressing well and the final reports will be completed in April. The planning forum is considering the emerging planning proposals of the task groups’ work. On 18 January, the Assembly endorsed the outline action plan for promoting social inclusion. On 2 February, the Environment and Local Government Committee endorsed proposals for the new home energy efficiency scheme for Wales.
Ystyriwyd adroddiadau cynnydd interim y pedwar gweithgor a sefydlwyd gennym i fwrw ymlaen â datblygiad strategaeth dai genedlaethol gan Bwyllgor yr Amgylchedd a Llywodraeth Leol ar 27 Ionawr. Mae gwaith y grwpiau gorchwyl yn mynd rhagddo’n dda a chaiff yr adroddiadau terfynol eu cwblhau ym mis Ebrill. Mae’r fforwm cynllunio’n ystyried y cynigion cynllunio sydd yn codi o waith y gweithgorau. Ar 18 Ionawr, cadarnhaodd y Cynulliad y cynllun gweithredu amlinellol ar gyfer hybu cynhwysiant cymdeithasol. Ar 2 Chwefror, cadarnhaodd Pwyllgor yr Amgylchedd a Llywodraeth Leol gynigion ar gyfer y cynllun effeithlondeb ynni newydd ar gyfer cartrefi yng Nghymru.
Will you give an undertaking that future reviews of housing finance will lead to a reversal of the trend that has seen funding for housing decline year on year since 1992?
A wnewch chi roi ymrwymiad y bydd adolygiadau’r dyfodol o gyllid tai yn arwain at wrthdroi’r duedd a welwyd bod y cyllid ar gyfer tai yn dirywio flwyddyn ar ôl blwyddyn er 1992?
Yes. I am aware, as is everyone, of the need to make available as many resources as possible for housing. It is an important subject. This will be a matter for negotiation during the comprehensive spending review. I will consider the matter in conjunction with the Finance Secretary to make sure that the Assembly receives the best possible allocation to be able to deal with housing issues.
Gwnaf. Yr wyf yn ymwybodol, fel pawb arall, o’r angen i sicrhau bod cymaint o adnoddau ag sydd yn bosibl ar gael ar gyfer tai. Mae’n bwnc pwysig. Bydd hwn yn fater i’w negodi yn ystod yr arolwg cynhwysfawr o wariant. Byddaf yn ystyried y mater ar y cyd â’r Ysgrifennydd Cyllid er mwyn gwneud yn siŵr fod y Cynulliad yn cael y dyraniad gorau posibl i allu delio â materion tai.
What action are you taking to combat the problem of rooflessness in Wales?
Beth ydych chi’n ei wneud i fynd i’r afael â phroblem pobl heb do uwch eu pennau yng Nghymru?
I am glad that you asked me that. We have taken a very positive view on that issue. I am grateful to Sue Essex, the Chair of the Environment and Local Government Committee, and the members of that Committee for their support on this important matter. Social inclusion is an important issue for us. Since I have taken up this job, I have realised that there is a rooflessness problem in Wales. I have tried to address that by increasing the budget for homelessness and rooflessness next year by £800,000, an increase of 75 per cent. That is a positive action to deal with social exclusion. I will deal with that in the future to make sure that the people who need to have safe, warm homes can be helped. I believe that that is the view of all Assembly Members. I was rather disappointed yesterday when The Western Mail gave me six out of 10 as far as local government was concerned. However, they did not take account of this excellent initiative to deal with the rooflessness problem. Therefore, two out of 10 for The Western Mail and eight out of 10 for us.
Yr wyf yn falch ichi ofyn hynny imi. Yr ydym wedi cymryd golwg gadarnhaol iawn ar y mater. Yr wyf yn ddiolchgar i Sue Essex, Cadeirydd Pwyllgor yr Amgylchedd a Llywodraeth Leol, ac aelodau’r Pwyllgor hwnnw am eu cefnogaeth ar y mater pwysig hwn. Mae cynhwysiant cymdeithasol yn fater pwysig inni. Ers imi ymgymryd â’r swydd hon, yr wyf wedi sylweddoli fod problem gyda phobl heb do uwch eu pennau yng Nghymru. Yr wyf wedi ceisio ateb hyn drwy gynyddu’r gyllideb ar gyfer digartrefedd a phobl heb do uwch eu pennau y flwyddyn nesaf o £800,000, sef cynnydd o 75 y cant. Dyna gam cadarnhaol i ddelio ag allgáu cymdeithasol. Byddaf yn delio â hynny yn y dyfodol er mwyn sicrhau y gellir helpu’r bobl sydd angen cael cartrefi cynnes, clyd. Credaf mai dyna farn holl Aelodau’r Cynulliad. Yr oeddwn braidd yn siomedig ddoe pan roddodd The Western Mail chwech allan o ddeg imi am faterion llywodraeth leol. Fodd bynnag, nid oeddent wedi ystyried y cynllun gwych hwn i ddelio â phroblem pobl heb do. Felly, dau allan o ddeg i The Western Mail ac wyth allan o ddeg i ni.
The task groups have reported to the Environment and Local Government Committee. It is important to change their good work into action. Through the Committee, the Assembly must set specific, measurable, achievable, realistic and time-related targets. Without this monitoring, the housing strategy cannot become a reality. Can you assure the Assembly that, when this returns as part of the Committee’s forward work programme, an adequate monitoring process will accompany it?
Mae grwpiau gorchwyl wedi adrodd i Bwyllgor yr Amgylchedd a Llywodraeth Leol. Mae’n bwysig trosi eu gwaith da yn weithredu. Drwy’r Pwyllgor, rhaid i’r Cynulliad osod targedau penodol, mesuradwy, realistig y gellir eu cyflawni o fewn amser penodol. Heb y monitro hwn, ni ellir gwireddu’r strategaeth dai. Allwch chi sicrhau’r Cynulliad, pan ddaw hwn yn ôl fel rhan o raglen waith y Pwyllgor ar gyfer y dyfodol, y bydd proses fonitro ddigonol yn mynd gydag ef?
That is a good point. I am sure that the Committee, under Sue Essex’s excellent chairmanship, will want to ensure that there is adequate monitoring, as it has done up to now. The Committee received an interim report from the task groups only a week or two ago, so that it could see their progress before they made their final report. That is important. We are on the verge of an opportunity to attack homelessness in terms of the general housing strategy. We must put that in place to give Wales the new opportunities in which the Assembly believes. I will ensure that we have an opportunity to monitor the work of these task groups.
Mae hwnnw’n bwynt da. Yr wyf yn siŵr y bydd y Pwyllgor, dan gadeiryddiaeth ardderchog Sue Essex, eisiau sicrhau monitro digonol, fel y gwnaeth hyd yn hyn. Derbyniodd y Pwyllgor adroddiad interim gan y grwpiau gorchwyl ddim ond wythnos neu ddwy yn ôl, er mwyn gweld sut yr oeddent yn dod yn eu blaen cyn iddynt lunio’u hadroddiad terfynol. Mae hynny’n bwysig. Yr ydym ar drothwy cyfle i ymosod ar ddigartrefedd yn nhermau’r strategaeth dai gyffredinol. Rhaid inni sefydlu honno er mwyn rhoi i Gymru y cyfleoedd newydd y mae’r Cynulliad yn credu ynddynt. Byddaf yn sicrhau y cawn gyfle i fonitro gwaith y grwpiau gorchwyl hyn.
We are grateful to those from outside organisations who are contributing to this housing strategy. Do you agree that, by involving them, we are adding value, as the Assembly promised we would, because we will have more informed, inclusive decision making than we would have had previously?
Yr ydym yn ddiolchgar i aelodau cyrff allanol sydd yn cyfrannu at y strategaeth dai hon. A gytunwch ein bod, drwy roi llais iddynt, yn ychwanegu gwerth, fel yr addawodd y Cynulliad y byddem, oherwydd y bydd gennym broses benderfynu fwy gwybodus a chynhwysol nag a fuasai gennym yn flaenorol?
I agree. It is one of the best examples of partnership in the Assembly. Representatives include tenants—the people who count—people from the Council of Mortgage Lenders, the Institute of Housing, the Federation of Housing Associations and Welsh local government. These people are all giving their time freely to give us a successful strategy for Wales. I have no doubt that it will be successful.
Yr wyf yn cytuno. Dyma un o’r enghreifftiau gorau o bartneriaeth yn y Cynulliad. Mae cynrychiolwyr yn cynnwys tenantiaid—y bobl sydd yn cyfrif—pobl o Gyngor y Benthycwyr Morgeisi, y Sefydliad Tai, Ffederasiwn y Cymdeithasau Tai a llywodraeth leol yng Nghymru. Mae’r bobl hyn i gyd yn rhoi eu hamser am ddim er mwyn rhoi strategaeth lwyddiannus inni i Gymru. Nid oes gennyf unrhyw amheuaeth na fydd yn llwyddiannus.
Costau Dŵr
Water Charges
What discussions has Peter Law had with Welsh Water/Dŵr Cymru regarding water charges in respect of people on low, fixed incomes? (OAQ3432)
Pa drafodaethau y mae Peter Law wedi eu cael â Dŵr Cymru ynghylch y costau dŵr i bobl sydd ar incymau isel, sefydlog? (OAQ3432)
My officials have met Dŵr Cymru and Dee Valley Water to discuss the provisions in the Water Industry Act 1999, which have now been transferred to the Assembly and allow us to prescribe in regulations, measures in water charging schemes to protect vulnerable groups. I have been kept fully informed of such discussions. Regulations under the Water Industry Act 1999 that apply to Welsh water companies will be brought forward for the Assembly to consider as soon as possible. Draft regulations will first be issued for public consultation.
Mae fy swyddogion wedi cyfarfod â Dŵr Cymru a Dŵr Dyffryn Dyfrdwy i drafod darpariaethau Deddf Diwydiant Dŵr 1999, a drosglwyddwyd yn awr i’r Cynulliad, ac sydd yn caniatáu inni bennu mesurau mewn rheoliadau ar gyfer cynlluniau codi tâl am ddŵr i warchod grwpiau bregus. Yr wyf wedi cael pob gwybodaeth am y trafodaethau hyn. Bydd rheoliadau dan Ddeddf y Diwydiant Dŵr 1999 sydd a wnelont â chwmnïau dŵr Cymru yn cael eu cyflwyno i’r Cynulliad eu hystyried cyn gynted ag y bo modd. Cyhoeddir rheoliadau drafft yn gyntaf ar gyfer ymgynghori â’r cyhoedd.
I welcome the commitment to ensure that vulnerable people in our society may be able to benefit from lower charges for their household water. I am aware that Welsh Water would be keen to adopt such a progressive pricing system, should the Assembly approve the statutory instrument. Do you agree that this shows, along with other measures such as free television licences, the minimum income guarantee for pensioners and £100 winter fuel bonuses, that Labour is serious about ensuring that our elderly people do not have to worry about the cost of their bills? I hear murmurs from the Conservatives on the right-hand side of the Chamber, but, under Labour—and I am sure that Peter will agree—
Croesawaf yr ymrwymiad i sicrhau y caiff pobl fregus yn ein cymdeithas gyfle i fanteisio ar daliadau is am ddŵr i’w cartrefi. Yr wyf yn ymwybodol y byddai Dŵr Cymru’n awyddus i weithredu trefn brisio raddedig o’r fath, pe bai’r Cynulliad yn cymeradwyo’r offeryn statudol. A gytunwch fod hyn, ynghyd â mesurau eraill megis trwyddedau teledu am ddim, yr isafswm incwm gwarantedig i bensiynwyr a’r bonws £100 ar gyfer tanwydd y gaeaf, yn dangos fod Llafur o ddifrif ynghylch sicrhau nad oes raid i’n pobl oedrannus boeni am gost eu biliau? Clywaf furmur gan y Ceidwadwyr ar ochr dde’r Siambr, ond, dan Lafur—ac yr wyf yn siŵr y bydd Peter yn cytuno—
Dafydd Elis-Thomas The Presiding Officer spoken in English p. 6
Dafydd Elis-Thomas Y Llywydd siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 6
Order. This is supposed to be a question.
Trefn. Cwestiwn yw hwn i fod.
Will you agree, Peter, that Labour has delivered for pensioners?
A gytunwch, Peter, fod Llafur wedi gweithredu dros y pensiynwyr?
Absolutely right, Ann. I am pleased to endorse that. Labour is working on a UK-wide basis as it is in this Assembly to deal with the problem of vulnerable people. I have just mentioned the roofless budget. We have excellent initiatives such as the national minimum wage, working families tax credit and so on. I expect to bring forward the consultations on regulations in the spring.
Yn hollol gywir, Ann. Mae’n dda gennyf ategu fod Llafur yn gweithio ledled y DU fel yn y Cynulliad hwn i ddelio â phroblem pobl fregus. Yr wyf newydd grybwyll y gyllideb ar gyfer pobl heb do dros eu pen. Mae gennym gynlluniau rhagorol fel yr isafswm cyflog cenedlaethol, credyd treth i deulu mewn gwaith, ac yn y blaen. Disgwyliaf gychwyn yr ymgynghori ar y rheoliadau yn y gwanwyn.
Some 6 per cent of Dŵr Cymru’s customers pay via meters—the category who might benefit from regulations introduced for English water company areas. I am glad that Dŵr Cymru does not have a policy of compulsory metering, unlike many companies in England. We must target vulnerable groups and I will be grateful for the support of all Members to ensure that we do so positively.
Mae rhyw 6 y cant o gwsmeriaid Dŵr Cymru’n talu drwy fesurydd—y categori a allai elwa ar reoliadau a gyflwynwyd ar gyfer ardaloedd cwmnïau dŵr Lloegr. Yr wyf yn falch nad oes gan Ddŵr Cymru bolisi o orfodi defnyddio mesuryddion, yn wahanol i sawl cwmni yn Lloegr. Rhaid inni dargedu grwpiau bregus a byddaf yn ddiolchgar am gefnogaeth yr Aelodau i gyd i sicrhau y gwnawn hyn mewn modd cadarnhaol.
A fyddai’n bosibl inni ddilyn esiampl Nwy Prydain? A fyddai hefyd yn bosibl ystyried, felly, i bob cwmni dŵr yng Nghymru ddiddymu’r taliadau sefydlog ar gyfrifon dŵr a’r cyfleustodau eraill er mwyn galluogi’r rhai sydd ar incwm isel i dalu eu ffordd? A fyddai’n bosibl edrych ar y posibilrwydd o ganiatáu gostyngiad o 25 y cant mewn trethi dŵr i bensiynwyr sydd yn byw ar eu pen eu hunain, sydd yn debyg i’r gostyngiad sydd ar gael eisoes ar gyfer y trethi cyngor?
Would it be possible for us to follow British Gas’s example? Would it also be possible to consider, therefore, that every water company in Wales waive the standing charges on water bills and other utilities in order to enable people on a low income to pay their way? Would it be possible to look at the possibility of a 25 per cent discount in water rates for pensioners living alone, which is similar to the discount available for the council tax at present?
I thank Dafydd for those useful points. I understand why he is making them. He is concerned, like all of us, about vulnerable people. We must deal with this matter in consultation with water companies and with the public. That is why these regulations will come before committee for consultation, with input from Members of all parties, and go out for consultation with the public. I will be interested to hear of the approach that will be taken and to take those points into account. We will eventually refine a set of regulations that will enable us to provide more help and support for vulnerable families. I cannot say more on that issue today.
Diolchaf i Dafydd am y pwyntiau buddiol hynny. Deallaf pam y mae’n eu codi. Mae’n poeni, fel pawb ohonom, am bobl fregus. Rhaid inni ddelio â’r mater hwn mewn ymgynghoriad â’r cwmnïau dŵr a’r cyhoedd. Dyna pam y daw’r rheoliadau hyn gerbron pwyllgor ar gyfer ymgynghori, gyda mewnbwn gan Aelodau o bob plaid, a mynd allan ar gyfer ymgynghori â’r cyhoedd. Bydd gennyf ddiddordeb mewn clywed sut yr eir ati a rhoi ystyriaeth i’r pwyntiau hynny. Yn y diwedd byddwn yn caboli set o reoliadau a fydd yn ein galluogi i gynnig mwy o gymorth a chefnogaeth i deuluoedd bregus. Ni allaf ddweud mwy ar y mater hwnnw heddiw.
Do you accept that privatisation has delivered low costs for all consumers and a much more efficient water industry? Furthermore, do you accept that the windfall tax has prevented the reduction of prices to what they should be?
A dderbyniwch fod preifateiddio wedi sicrhau costau isel i bawb a diwydiant dŵr llawer mwy effeithlon?Yn ogystal, a dderbyniwch fod y dreth ar elw gormodol wedi rhwystro gostwng y prisiau i’r hyn y dylent fod?
I am not responsible for the windfall tax, of course, but I will answer that. In some respects, privatisation has played its part in the water service that is given to the people of Wales. Some would disagree. Some would say that some pre-privatisation services, which no longer exist, were more beneficial to consumers than what is provided now. However, we must deal with what we have. I am concerned about getting the best deal for the consumer in Wales. By working in partnership with the private water companies we can get the best deal. These regulations will lead us to that.
Nid wyf yn gyfrifol am y dreth ar elw gormodol, wrth gwrs, ond atebaf y cwestiwn. I ryw raddau, mae preifateiddio wedi chwarae ei ran yn y gwasanaeth dŵr a roddir i bobl Cymru. Byddai rhai’n anghytuno. Byddai rhai’n dweud fod rhai o’r gwasanaethau a fodolai cyn preifateiddio, ac sydd bellach wedi diflannu, yn fwy manteisiol i ddefnyddwyr na’r hyn a ddarperir yn awr. Fodd bynnag, mae’n rhaid i ni ddelio gyda’r hyn sydd gennym. Fy nghonsyrn i yw sicrhau’r fargen orau i’r defnyddiwr yng Nghymru. Drwy weithio mewn partneriaeth gyda’r cwmnïau dŵr preifat gallwn gael y fargen orau. Bydd y rheoliadau hyn yn ein harwain tuag at hynny.
As you know, water charges in properties that were built after 1990 are assessed equally, while charges in properties built before 1990 are calculated according to the council tax banding system. Is there any way that we can discuss with water companies to try to equalise this so that people living in properties built after 1990 and before 1990 pay their water charges on the same basis?
Fel y gwyddoch, caiff taliadau dŵr mewn eiddo a adeiladwyd ar ôl 1990 eu hasesu’n gyfartal, tra caiff taliadau mewn eiddo a adeiladwyd cyn 1990 eu cyfrifo yn ôl y system bandiau treth cyngor. Oes yna unrhyw ffordd y gallwn gynnal trafodaethau gyda’r cwmnïau dŵr i geisio cysoni hyn fel bod pobl sydd yn byw mewn eiddo a adeiladwyd ar ôl 1990 a chyn 1990 yn talu am eu dŵr ar yr un sail?
We need to consider that. We have been lobbied to pursue that for some time. I made a point earlier about compulsory metering. Thankfully, we do not face compulsory metering from water companies in Wales. I do not support that. We must take that into account. We should consider all options to make it a fairer and more equitable system, in the way that you suggested. I will be pleased to hear from you and other colleagues on the way forward on that.
Mae angen inni ystyried hynny. Cawsom ein lobïo i fynd ar ôl hynny ers tro. Gwneuthum bwynt yn gynharach ynglŷn â mesuryddion gorfodol. Diolch i’r drefn, nid ydym yn wynebu gorfodaeth i ddefnyddio mesuryddion gan y cwmnïau dŵr yng Nghymru. Nid wyf yn cefnogi hynny. Rhaid inni gymryd hynny i ystyriaeth. Dylem ystyried pob dewis posibl i wneud y system yn un decach a mwy cyfartal, yn y modd a awgrymwyd gennych. Byddaf yn falch o glywed gennych chi a chyd-Aelodau eraill ar y ffordd ymlaen yn hynny o beth.
Ansawdd Aer Gwael
Poor Air Quality
Mae cynllun strategol Cymru yn cydnabod bod cyswllt rhwng iechyd a’r amgylchedd. Pa fesurau a fydd yn cael eu rhoi ar waith i rwystro ansawdd aer gwael rhag effeithio’n andwyol ar iechyd? (OAQ3457)
The strategic plan for Wales acknowledges the link between health and the environment. What measures will be put in place to prevent poor air quality having an adverse effect on health? (OAQ3457)
Our policies for tackling air pollution in Wales are set out in the air quality strategy for England, Scotland, Wales and Northern Ireland, which was issued last month. We are taking the strategy forward with local authorities that have a major role to play in the monitoring and management of air quality. Local air quality management plays a key role in tackling local air pollution issues.
Mae’n polisïau ar gyfer mynd i’r afael â llygredd aer yng Nghymru wedi’u hamlinellu yn y strategaeth ansawdd aer ar gyfer Lloegr, yr Alban, Cymru a Gogledd Iwerddon, a gyhoeddwyd y mis diwethaf. Yr ydym yn mynd â’r strategaeth yn ei blaen gydag awdurdodau lleol sydd â rhan fawr i’w chwarae yn y gwaith o fonitro a rheoli ansawdd aer. Mae rheoli ansawdd aer lleol yn allweddol ar gyfer mynd i’r afael â materion llygredd aer yn lleol.
Gan gydnabod bod ansawdd aer gwael yn effeithio’n andwyol ar iechyd, a yw’n fwriad gan Peter Law i wrthod cynnig ei Lywodraeth ei hun i wanychu’r rheol ronynnau a sicrhau bod y Cynulliad yn gosod safonau uwch ar ansawdd aer yng Nghymru nag yn Lloegr?
Recognising that poor air quality has an adverse affect on health, does Peter Law intend to reject his own Government’s proposal to weaken the ruling on particles and ensure that the Assembly sets higher standards of air quality in Wales than in England?
The air quality strategy advises on the best practicable protection for human health by setting human health-based objectives for eight different air pollutants. The health-based standards derive from advice given by the World Health Organisation and the UK Government’s expert panel on air quality standards. We talk constantly to the Department of the Environment, Transport and the Regions that has the lead role on this, as you know. We must use our experience in those discussions for the overall benefit of the UK.
Mae’r strategaeth ansawdd aer yn rhoi cyngor ar y warchodaeth ymarferol orau i iechyd dynol drwy osod targedau seiliedig ar iechyd ar gyfer wyth o wahanol lygrynnau yn yr aer. Mae’r safonau iechyd hyn yn deillio o gyngor a roddwyd gan Sefydliad Iechyd y Byd a phanel arbenigol Llywodraeth y DU ar safonau ansawdd aer. Siaradwn yn gyson ag Adran yr Amgylchedd, Trafnidiaeth a'r Rhanbarthau sydd yn gyfrifol am roi arweiniad yn y mater hwn, fel y gwyddoch. Rhaid inni ddefnyddio’n profiad yn y trafodaethau hynny er lles y DU drwyddi draw.
Does Peter agree that many of the areas with the worst air quality problems are also areas that have a number of traditional industries? Many of these traditional industries face double, triple and quadruple whammies as they try to cope with the various rules and regulations associated with this. While we agree with the principle that the polluter should pay, is there a need for a flexible approach from the Government to ensure that the economic burden of improving the economy and the environment is not too great?
A yw Peter yn cytuno mai ardaloedd lle ceir nifer o ddiwydiannau traddodiadol yw llawer o’r ardaloedd lle ceir y problemau gwaethaf gydag ansawdd aer? Mae llawer o’r diwydiannau traddodiadol hyn yn wynebu cael eu colbio o bob cyfeiriad wrth iddynt geisio ymdopi â’r gwahanol reolau a rheoliadau sydd yn gysylltiedig â hyn. Tra’n cytuno â’r egwyddor mai’r llygrwr ddylai dalu, oes yna angen i’r Llywodraeth gymryd agwedd hyblyg er mwyn sicrhau nad yw’r baich economaidd o wella’r economi a’r amgylchedd yn rhy fawr?
A flexible approach is needed because when we talk about the economy, we talk about jobs, people’s livelihoods and standard of living. There has to be a balance. The Secretary for Economic Development and I have discussed this matter with industry and trade union representatives in the past because it is of equal value to both of us on the economic and environmental side. We have to be careful and ensure that we do all we can to protect our fragile environment, while at the same time making sure that the economy is kept stable.
Mae angen agwedd hyblyg oherwydd pan soniwn am yr economi, sôn yr ydym am swyddi, bywoliaeth a safon byw pobl. Rhaid cael cydbwysedd. Mae’r Ysgrifennydd Datblygu Economaidd a minnau wedi trafod y mater hwn gyda chynrychiolwyr diwydiant ac undebau llafur yn y gorffennol oherwydd mae yr un mor werthfawr inni ar yr ochr economaidd ac amgylcheddol. Rhaid inni fod yn ofalus a sicrhau y gwnawn bopeth o fewn ein gallu i warchod ein hamgylchedd bregus, tra’n sicrhau ar yr un pryd y cedwir yr economi mewn cyflwr sefydlog.
Lefelau Llygrynnau
Pollutant Levels
What steps is Peter Law taking to reduce levels of ozone, sulphur dioxide and carbon monoxide, following evidence that, in parts of Wales, levels of these pollutants are rising considerably? (OAQ3427)
Pa gamau mae Peter Law yn eu cymryd i leihau lefelau osôn, sylffwr deuocsid a charbon monocsid, yn dilyn y dystiolaeth fod lefelau’r llygrynnau hyn yn codi’n sylweddol mewn rhannau o Gymru? (OAQ3427)
A number of measures to tackle air pollution are being taken forward, including the introduction of the integrated pollution prevention and control regime. This regime will widen the scope of the industrial emission controls and introduce a requirement for industry to improve the energy efficiency of their processes. Regulations to limit the sulphur content of liquid fuels are under consideration. These regulations will reduce the concentration of sulphur dioxide emitted from many combustion processes. Regulations that limit emissions of solvents—one of the precursors of ozone—are also being discussed. Today is the closing date for comments on the draft Air Quality (Wales) Regulations. These set air quality objectives for a range of pollutants, including sulphur dioxide and carbon monoxide. They will be put before the Assembly shortly.
Mae nifer o gamau’n cael eu cymryd i fynd i’r afael â llygredd aer, gan gynnwys cyflwyno’r drefn integredig i atal a rheoli llygredd. Bydd y drefn hon yn lledu maes y mesurau rheoli allyriadau diwydiannol ac yn cyflwyno gofyniad ar i ddiwydiant wella effeithlonrwydd ynni eu prosesau. Mae rheoliadau dan ystyriaeth i gyfyngu ar gynnwys sylffwr tanwyddau hylifol. Bydd y rheoliadau hyn yn lleihau’r crynodiad o sylffwr deuocsid a allyrrir o lawer o brosesau llosgi. Mae trafodaethau ar droed hefyd ynghylch rheoliadau i gyfyngu allyriadau toddyddion—un o ragsylweddion osôn. Heddiw yw’r dyddiad cau ar gyfer sylwadau ar ddrafft Rheoliadau Ansawdd Aer (Cymru). Mae’r rhain yn gosod targedau ansawdd aer ar gyfer amrediad o lygrynnau, gan gynnwys sylffwr deuocsid a charbon monocsid. Fe’u cyflwynir gerbron y Cynulliad cyn bo hir.
Your response to this and the previous question related to industry. I would like to move on to the contribution of transport in Wales to increasing air pollution. This is a scandal at the beginning of the twenty-first century. As a result of our limited powers in the Assembly we have to rely on the framework of primary legislation. Do you agree that we need a dramatic improvement in public transport to make any real impact on pollution in Wales? Do you share my disappointment that Wales has been badly let down by John Prescott, who has backtracked on his commitment to a modern integrated transport policy for the UK as a whole, which we in Wales have to rely upon?
Yr oedd eich ymateb i’r cwestiwn hwn a’r un diwethaf yn ymwneud â diwydiant. Hoffwn symud ymlaen at y cyfraniad a wneir gan drafnidiaeth yng Nghymru i gynyddu llygredd aer. Mae hyn yn sgandal ar ddechrau’r unfed ganrif ar hugain. O ganlyniad i’n pwerau cyfyngedig yn y Cynulliad mae’n rhaid inni ddibynnu ar fframwaith deddfwriaeth sylfaenol. A gytunwch fod angen gwelliant dramatig mewn cludiant cyhoeddus i gael unrhyw wir effaith ar lygredd yng Nghymru? Ydych chi’n rhannu fy siom fod Cymru wedi’i gadael i lawr yn ddrwg gan John Prescott, sydd wedi cilio’n ôl oddi wrth ei ymrwymiad i bolisi trafnidiaeth integredig modern i’r DU yn ei chyfanrwydd, y mae’n rhaid i ni yng Nghymru ddibynnu arni?
I do not agree that Wales has been let down by John Prescott. He has done sterling work on transport throughout the UK. I now have the responsibility for transport on a day-to-day basis in Wales. On pollution of the environment, we generally take a lead from the Department for the Environment, Transport and the Regions. I need to feed the Assembly’s views to the DETR and ensure that they are fully taken into account and that we get a full response which is beneficial to the people of Wales. We will talk about an integrated transport policy later this afternoon, but as far as ecofriendly transport or vehicle systems are concerned, the DETR is constantly involved in trying to update those, as anyone who is involved with vehicles knows. It is taking this on board. There is no easy answer but we must do as much as we can to reduce pollution.
Nid wyf yn cytuno fod John Prescott wedi gadael Cymru i lawr. Gwnaeth waith ardderchog ar drafnidiaeth ledled y DU. Erbyn hyn yr wyf i’n gyfrifol am drafnidiaeth ar sail feunyddiol yng Nghymru. Ar bwnc llygru’r amgylchedd, byddwn fel rheol yn derbyn arweiniad Adran yr Amgylchedd, Trafnidiaeth a’r Rhanbarthau. Mae angen i mi fwydo sylwadau’r Cynulliad i’r Adran honno a sicrhau y rhoddir ystyriaeth lawn iddynt ac y cawn ymateb llawn sydd yn fuddiol i bobl Cymru. Soniwn am bolisi trafnidiaeth integredig yn ddiweddarach y prynhawn yma, ond o ran systemau trafnidiaeth neu gerbydau ecogydnaws, mae Adran yr Amgylchedd, Trafnidiaeth a’r Rhanbarthau wrthi o hyd yn ceisio diweddaru’r rheini, fel y gŵyr unrhyw un sydd yn ymwneud â cherbydau. Y mae’n rhoi sylw i hyn. Nid oes ateb hawdd ond rhaid inni wneud cymaint ag y gallwn i leihau llygredd.
Is it not the case that John Prescott asked us to judge him by a reduction in traffic volume on the road? Is it not the case that traffic volume has continued to increase and that the Labour Government’s only response and its only policy in an integrated transport package is to put taxes on car parking spaces, to charge people for using roads in urban and rural areas and to increase fuel taxes year upon year, without offering any alternative in the way of an efficient public transport service?
Onid yw’n wir fod John Prescott wedi gofyn inni ei farnu ar sail lleihad yn nhrafnidiaeth y ffyrdd? Onid yw’n wir fod trafnidiaeth wedi parhau i gynyddu ac mai unig ymateb ac unig bolisi’r Llywodraeth Lafur mewn pecyn trafnidiaeth integredig yw trethu mannau parcio ceir, codi tâl ar bobl am ddefnyddio ffyrdd mewn ardaloedd trefol a gwledig a chynyddu trethi tanwydd flwyddyn ar ôl blwyddyn, heb gynnig unrhyw ddewis arall ar ffurf gwasanaeth cludiant cyhoeddus effeithlon?
There is no doubt that John Prescott has made a major impact on the way we look at transport. You cannot expect things to happen overnight. Millions of pounds are being spent. I will announce some interesting initiatives this afternoon on safe routes to schools. You will be pleased to learn that some of these are in your constituency. I know that the DETR, under the control of John Prescott, is holding a pilot scheme in Magor near Newport on parking. We are fortunate that that is taking place in Wales. The DETR is playing its part in Wales on a higher level, and I am dealing with safe routes to schools and other transport initiatives. John Prescott, myself and the Labour Government in the Assembly are working in partnership to provide a good deal for Wales as a whole.
Nid oes amheuaeth nad yw John Prescott wedi gwneud argraff fawr ar y ffordd yr edrychwn ar drafnidiaeth. Ni allwch ddisgwyl i bethau ddigwydd dros nos. Mae miliynau o bunnau’n cael eu gwario. Byddaf yn cyhoeddi rhai cynlluniau diddorol y prynhawn yma ar ffyrdd diogel i ysgolion. Byddwch yn falch o glywed fod rhai o’r rhain yn eich etholaeth chi. Gwn fod Adran yr Amgylchedd, Trafnidiaeth a’r Rhanbarthau, dan reolaeth John Prescott, yn cynnal cynllun parcio peilot ym Magwyr ger Casnewydd. Yr ydym yn ffodus mai yng Nghymru y mae hynny’n digwydd. Mae Adran yr Amgylchedd, Trafnidiaeth a’r Rhanbarthau yn chwarae ei rhan yng Nghymru ar lefel uwch, ac yr wyf innau’n delio â ffyrdd diogel i ysgolion a chynlluniau trafnidiaeth eraill. Mae John Prescott a minnau a’r Llywodraeth Lafur yn y Cynulliad yn cydweithio mewn partneriaeth i ddarparu bargen dda i Gymru gyfan.
Pwynt o Drefn
Point of Order
I raise a point of order under Standing Order No. 1.9. I am aware that this is of some sensitivity to you, Llywydd. However, it should not pass without comment—particularly at this testing time for the Assembly—that a Member of another place has called into question your impartiality. In condemning those remarks, we assure you that we have the greatest confidence in your ability to handle these matters over the next few days.
Codaf bwynt o drefn dan Reol Sefydlog Rhif 1.9. Yr wyf yn ymwybodol fod hyn yn eithaf sensitif i chi, Llywydd. Fodd bynnag, ni ddylai fynd heibio heb sylw—yn enwedig ar yr adeg ddyrys hon i’r Cynulliad—fod Aelod o le arall wedi cwestiynu’ch amhleidioldeb. Wrth gondemnio’r sylwadau hynny, yr ydym yn eich sicrhau bod gennym bob hyder yn eich gallu i drin y materion hyn yn yr ychydig ddyddiau nesaf.
Further to that point of order, we have all seen the comments attributed to Members of Parliament representing Welsh constituencies who are not Members of this Assembly. The comments bring into question your integrity and impartiality. I have spoken to many Members of all parties in the Assembly who are appalled at these outrageous comments. If these comments are in any way intended to influence Assembly Members’ conduct today, they will surely fail.
Ymhellach i’r pwynt hwnnw o drefn, yr ydym i gyd wedi gweld y sylwadau a briodolwyd i Aelodau Seneddol yn cynrychioli etholaethau Cymreig nad ydynt yn Aelodau o’r Cynulliad hwn. Mae’r sylwadau’n codi cwestiwn ynghylch eich gonestrwydd a’ch amhleidioldeb. Yr wyf wedi siarad â sawl Aelod o bob plaid yn y Cynulliad sydd yn ffieiddio at y sylwadau sarhaus hyn. Os oes unrhyw fwriad i’r sylwadau hyn ddylanwadu mewn rhyw fodd ar ymddygiad Aelodau’r Cynulliad heddiw, maent yn siŵr o fethu.
I endorse what has been said. It is out of order for Members of another place to comment on your conduct, Llywydd. Likewise, it would be inappropriate for us to comment on the conduct of the Speaker of the House of Commons in our professional, official capacity. The remarks were totally unhelpful.
Ategaf yr hyn a ddywedwyd. Mae allan o drefn i Aelodau o le arall wneud sylwadau ar eich ymddygiad chi, Llywydd. Yn yr un modd, byddai’n amhriodol i ni wneud sylwadau ar ymddygiad Llefarydd Tŷ’r Cyffredin yn ein swyddogaeth broffesiynol, swyddogol. Yr oedd y sylwadau’n gwbl ddi-fudd.
Dafydd Elis-Thomas The Presiding Officer spoken in English p. 12
Dafydd Elis-Thomas Y Llywydd siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 12
It would not be appropriate for me to comment at any length on this matter. However, I thank Assembly Members from all groups who have, publicly in this Chamber and privately, expressed their support in many ways. I will say two things. First, when I was elected to this post, I considered carefully what my media relations policy should be. I decided to adopt a policy that I have continued to pursue at some cost to my officials. That policy is an open policy in the spirit of the new democracy that we are creating together in Cardiff Bay. I have responded to requests for interviews and comments on matters that are of relevance to the Assembly. Perhaps my comments are not always as felicitous as they might or should be. However, I try to maintain the dignity of the Assembly in those comments. I do this because we are in new territory. We do not have a precedent to which we can turn. In my rather too long experience in Westminster, it was often the case that speakers I greatly admired would refer to precedent and, therefore, would not need to explain their conduct. We have no precedent. We are without precedent in the history of our country and the UK. It is appropriate therefore that we should explain, not only for the present but for the future, what our intentions are.
Ni fyddai’n briodol i mi siarad yn faith o gwbl ar y mater hwn. Fodd bynnag, diolchaf i Aelodau Cynulliad o bob grŵp a fynegodd, yn gyhoeddus yn y Siambr hon ac yn breifat, eu cefnogaeth mewn sawl ffordd. Dywedaf ddau beth. Yn gyntaf, pan etholwyd fi i’r swydd hon, ystyriais yn ofalus beth ddylai fy mholisi fod ar gyfer fy mherthynas â’r cyfryngau. Penderfynais arddel polisi yr wyf wedi parhau i’w ddilyn ar gryn gost i’m swyddogion. Polisi agored yw hwnnw, yn ysbryd y ddemocratiaeth newydd yr ydym yn ei chreu gyda’n gilydd ym Mae Caerdydd. Yr wyf wedi ymateb i geisiadau am gyfweliadau a sylwadau ar faterion perthnasol i’r Cynulliad. Efallai nad yw fy sylwadau bob amser mor gymwys ag y gallent fod neu y dylent fod. Fodd bynnag, ceisiaf gynnal urddas y Cynulliad yn y sylwadau hynny. Gwnaf hyn am ein bod yn troedio tir newydd. Nid oes gennym gynsail y gallwn droi ato. Yn fy mhrofiad, rhy hir braidd, yn San Steffan, yn aml byddai siaradwyr yr oedd gennyf edmygedd mawr tuag atynt yn cyfeirio at gynsail ac, felly, ni fyddai angen iddynt egluro’u hymddygiad. Nid oes gennym ni gynsail. Yr ydym heb gynsail yn hanes ein gwlad a’r DU. Mae’n briodol felly y dylem egluro, nid yn unig er mwyn y presennol ond er mwyn y dyfodol, beth yw ein bwriadau.
The other matter refers to what was said by Members of the UK Parliament about our affairs here. I have tried to ensure that this Assembly does not become a surrogate for Westminster in terms of references to by-elections or general elections when they may happen in Westminster. We are our own people. This is our Assembly and long may it be so.
Cyfeiria’r mater arall at yr hyn a ddywedwyd gan Aelodau o Senedd y DU am ein materion ni yma. Yr wyf wedi ceisio sicrhau nad aiff y Cynulliad hwn yn gysgod o San Steffan yn nhermau cyfeiriadau at is-etholiadau neu etholiadau cyffredinol pan ddigwydd y rheini yn San Steffan. Ein pobl ni’n hunain ydym. Ein Cynulliad ni yw hwn, a hir y parhaed felly.
As someone who has shared many of those experiences with you, I would like to say—as an individual, I cannot claim to speak for my party on this or any other matter, and I do not want to get involved in the previous controversy—that the way you have conducted yourself in office has been exemplary. You have shown great patience, tolerance and understanding in the way that you have developed our traditions here. The support that has been expressed for you from the other three political parties is shared by many in my own party.
Fel un a rannodd lawer o’r profiadau hynny gyda chi, hoffwn ddweud—fel unigolyn, ni allaf honni siarad dros fy mhlaid ar hyn nac ar unrhyw fater arall, ac nid wyf eisiau mynd i mewn i’r ddadl flaenorol—fod y ffordd yr ydych wedi ymddwyn yn eich swydd wedi bod yn rhagorol. Yr ydych wedi dangos cryn amynedd, goddefgarwch a dealltwriaeth yn y modd yr ydych wedi datblygu’n traddodiadau yma. Mae llawer yn fy mhlaid fy hun yn rhannu’r gefnogaeth a fynegwyd tuag atoch gan y tair plaid wleidyddol arall.
Cymeradwyo Rheoliadau Cyngor Datblygu Llaeth (Gwelliant)
Approval of the Milk Development Council (Amendment) Regulations
Christine Gwyther The Secretary for Agriculture and Rural Development spoken in English p. 13
Christine Gwyther Yr Ysgrifennydd Amaethyddiaeth a Datblygu Gwledig siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 13
I propose that
Cynigiaf fod
Christine Gwyther The Secretary for Agriculture and Rural Development (continued) spoken in English p. 13
Christine Gwyther Yr Ysgrifennydd Amaethyddiaeth a Datblygu Gwledig (parhad) siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 13
This is an important piece of legislation. The main purpose of these amending regulations is to empower the Milk Development Council to carry out the generic promotion of liquid milk. By this I mean not brand or origin advertising but the more general promotion of the product. Specifically, the draft order does three things: it provides for the widening of the MDC statutory remit to include generic promotion; it increases by 0.03 pence per litre the statutory maximum levy; and it clarifies that the levy is exclusive of value added tax. The effect of this proposal will be to raise the statutory maximum levy from 0.05 pence per litre to 0.08 pence per litre. Assuming that the full additional charge is levied on milk producers, this is expected to generate an extra £3.5 million per year for the advertising campaign.
Mae hwn yn ddarn pwysig o ddeddfwriaeth. Prif bwrpas y rheoliadau diwygiol hyn yw galluogi’r Cyngor Datblygu Llaeth i hyrwyddo llaeth hylifol yn gyffredinol. Drwy hyn yr wyf yn golygu nid hysbysebu yn ôl brand neu darddiad ond hyrwyddo’r cynnyrch yn fwy cyffredinol. Yn benodol, mae’r gorchymyn drafft yn gwneud tri pheth: mae’n darparu ar gyfer lledu maes cyfrifoldeb statudol y Cyngor Datblygu Llaeth i gynnwys hyrwyddo cyffredinol; mae’n ychwanegu 0.03 ceiniog y litr at y lefi uchaf statudol; ac mae’n egluro nad yw’r lefi’n cynnwys treth ar werth. Effaith y cynnig fydd codi’r lefi uchaf statudol o 0.05 ceiniog y litr i 0.08 ceiniog y litr. A chymryd y codir y tâl ychwanegol llawn ar y cynhyrchwyr llaeth, disgwylir i hynny gynhyrchu £3.5 miliwn ychwanegol y flwyddyn ar gyfer yr ymgyrch hysbysebu.
Voluntary match funding is being organised by the Dairy Industry Federation which is putting contractual arrangements in place with its members, the dairy processing companies. That is expected to be completed by 16 February. The background to this proposal is a campaign by the industry to halt the decline in liquid milk consumption in Great Britain over recent years. Following deregulation of the milk market in 1994, industry-funded generic marketing more or less stopped completely. The industry believes that this has contributed to the continuing decline in consumption of liquid milk. That rate of decline has been about 1 per cent per year for the last 10 years. It is serious. The proposal is aimed at addressing this decline and has been put forward following the findings of a study commissioned by the MDC to assess the effectiveness of a national generic advertising campaign for liquid milk.
Mae arian cyfatebol gwirfoddol yn cael ei drefnu gan Ffederasiwn y Diwydiant Llaeth sydd yn gosod trefniadau contract yn eu lle gyda’i aelodau, y cwmnïau prosesu llaeth. Disgwylir y bydd hynny wedi’i gwblhau erbyn 16 Chwefror. Y cefndir i’r cynnig hwn yw ymgyrch gan y diwydiant i atal y gostyngiad yn faint o laeth hylif a yfir ym Mhrydain Fawr dros y blynyddoedd diweddar. Wedi dadreoleiddio’r farchnad laeth yn 1994, daeth diwedd ar farchnata cyffredinol dan nawdd y diwydiant bron yn llwyr. Cred y diwydiant fod hyn wedi cyfrannu at y cwymp parhaus yn faint o laeth hylif a ddefnyddir. Bu’r ffigurau ar i lawr tuag 1 y cant bob blwyddyn am y 10 mlynedd diwethaf. Mae’n ddifrifol. Amcan y cynnig yw gwneud rhywbeth ynglŷn â’r cwymp hon ac fe’i cynigiwyd yn sgîl canfyddiadau astudiaeth a gomisiynwyd gan y Cyngor Datblygu Llaeth i asesu effeithiolrwydd ymgyrch hysbysebu cyffredinol cenedlaethol i laeth hylif.
The dairy sector is experiencing tough times. I recognise that this is not an opportune time, if there ever is one, to impose an additional cost on dairy farmers. It is important to note that we are doing this at the request of the industry. The National Farmers Union Wales and the Farmers Union of Wales both support it, as do dairy companies. It is the industry’s clear preference that this should be done through a statutory levy and not voluntary contributions. However, before bringing forward these legislative proposals the Assembly, together with the Ministry of Agriculture, Fisheries and Food and the Scottish Executive, conducted a poll of producers last year to gauge support for the proposals. The outcome was a clear vote in favour of the proposals—75 per cent support in Great Britain, and in Wales slightly higher, perhaps surprisingly, at 76 per cent.
Mae’r sector llaeth yn profi amserau caled. Cydnabyddaf nad yw hwn yn amser da, os oes y fath beth, i osod cost arall ar ffermwyr llaeth. Mae’n bwysig nodi ein bod yn gwneud hyn ar gais y diwydiant. Mae Undeb Cenedlaethol yr Amaethwyr yng Nghymru ac Undeb Amaethwyr Cymru ill dau’n cefnogi hyn, a’r cwmnïau llaeth hwythau. Dewis clir y diwydiant yw y dylid gwneud hyn drwy godi tâl statudol ac nid drwy gyfraniadau gwirfoddol. Fodd bynnag, cyn cyflwyno’r cynigion deddfwriaethol hyn, gwnaeth y Cynulliad, ynghyd â’r Weinyddiaeth Amaeth, Pysgodfeydd a Bwyd a Gweithrediaeth yr Alban, arolwg o gynhyrchwyr y llynedd er mwyn mesur faint o gefnogaeth oedd i’r cynigion. Y canlyniad oedd pleidlais glir o blaid y cynigion—cefnogaeth 75 y cant ym Mhrydain Fawr, ac yng Nghymru fymryn yn uwch, testun syndod efallai, ar 76 y cant.
We have discussed this thoroughly in Committee and I am grateful to the Agriculture and Rural Development Committee for the support for these proposals. The European Commission has also approved the proposals in respect of state aid provision. Therefore, subject to match funding from the dairy companies which is very important, I invite the Assembly to give its backing to the proposals by voting in favour of the motion to approve the draft order.
Yr ydym wedi trafod hyn yn llawn yn y Pwyllgor ac yr wyf yn ddiolchgar i’r Pwyllgor Amaethyddiaeth a Datblygu Gwledig am gefnogi’r cynigion hyn. Mae’r Comisiwn Ewropeaidd hefyd wedi cymeradwyo’r cynigion yng nghyswllt darpariaeth cymorth y wladwriaeth. Felly, yn amodol ar arian cyfatebol gan y cwmnïau llaeth sydd yn bwysig iawn, gwahoddaf y Cynulliad i roi sêl bendith i’r cynigion drwy bleidleisio o blaid y cynnig i gymeradwyo’r gorchymyn drafft.
Fel y nododd Christine, mae hon yn ddeddfwriaeth eithriadol o bwysig i’r diwydiant llaeth. Talaf deyrnged i’r cynhyrchwyr llaeth a fu’n barod i gefnogi hyn yn ariannol ar adeg argyfyngus iawn yn eu hanes; adeg pan fo cynhyrchwyr llaeth yn colli 4c y litr, ar gyfartaledd, oherwydd cryfder y bunt a phan nad ydynt yn derbyn yr iawndal sydd yn ddyledus iddynt o Ewrop oherwydd penderfyniadau gwleidyddol a seiliwyd ar yr ad-daliad a Chytundeb Fontainebleau. Mae ein cynhyrchwyr llaeth wedi dewis cefnogi’r fenter hon yn ariannol oherwydd eu bod yn sylweddoli ei phwysigrwydd i’r diwydiant. Dylem dalu teyrnged iddynt am fod yn barod i edrych ymlaen, i fentro ac i weld dyfodol i’w diwydiant. Fel y dywedodd Christine, mae’r Pwyllgor wedi trafod y fenter hon yn fanwl ac yn ei chefnogi. Mae’n braf clywed fod arian cyfatebol ar gael ar gyfer y fenter hon.
As Christine noted, this is extremely important legislation for the dairy industry. I pay tribute to the milk producers who have been prepared to give their financial support at a very critical time in their history; a time when milk producers are losing 4p a litre, on average, due to the strength of the pound and when they are unable to get the compensation that is owed to them from Europe because of political decisions based on the rebate and the Fontainebleau Agreement. Our milk producers have chosen to support this venture financially because they realise how important it is to the industry. We should pay tribute to them for being prepared to look forward, to be enterprising and to see a future for their industry. As Christine said, the Committee has discussed this venture in detail and supports it. It is good to hear that match funding is available for this venture.
I echo Rhodri’s words. The dairy farmers gave a clear message in their vote. Even though they are in a desperate state, that vote sends out a firm message that they will support this venture. I wish them the very best and I hope we will all support Welsh milk produce.
Ategaf eiriau Rhodri. Rhoddodd y ffermwyr llaeth neges glir drwy eu pleidlais. Er eu bod mewn sefyllfa enbyd, mae’r bleidlais honno’n anfon neges gadarn y gwnânt gefnogi’r fenter hon. Dymunaf bob hwyl iddynt a gobeithio y gwnawn ni i gyd gefnogi cynnyrch llaeth Cymru.
The Liberal Democrats welcome this move, particularly as this venture looks to the future to sell more Welsh produce. However, we regret that not enough pressure is being applied to gain agri-money compensation. The industry, which, as Rhodri said, is losing 4p per litre, needs extra support from this Assembly. We look forward to further pressure on Europe from the Secretary for Agriculture and Rural Development to gain agri-money compensation from Europe. We all want this milk to be sold. I am grateful to those Members who signed my statement of opinion on getting milk into schools. I am sure that you will offer support to the dairy industry by lobbying your local authorities to get more milk into schools. We must all look to the future, welcome this venture, and welcome the farmers’ commitment. Let us show them our commitment.
Mae’r Democratiaid Rhyddfrydol yn croesawu’r symudiad hwn, yn enwedig gan fod y fenter hon yn edrych i’r dyfodol i werthu mwy o gynnyrch Cymreig. Fodd bynnag, gresynwn nad oes digon o bwysau’n cael ei roi i gael arian digolledu amaeth. Mae angen cefnogaeth ychwanegol gan y Cynulliad ar y diwydiant, sydd, fel y dywedodd Rhodri, yn colli 4c y litr. Edrychwn ymlaen at weld mwy o bwysau ar Ewrop o du’r Ysgrifennydd Amaethyddiaeth a Datblygu Gwledig i sicrhau arian digolledu amaeth o Ewrop. Yr ydym i gyd eisiau i’r llaeth yma gael ei werthu. Yr wyf yn ddiolchgar i’r Aelodau hynny a lofnododd fy natganiad barn ar roi llaeth mewn ysgolion. Yr wyf yn siŵr y gwnewch i gyd gefnogi’r diwydiant llaeth drwy lobïo’ch awdurdodau lleol i gael mwy o laeth i mewn i ysgolion. Rhaid inni i gyd edrych tua’r dyfodol, croesawu’r fenter hon, a chroesawu ymrwymiad y ffermwyr. Gadewch inni ddangos ein hymrwymiad ni iddynt.
I thank Members for their contributions. We discussed this matter thoroughly in Committee and I echo what Members said about dairy farmers showing confidence in their future. We must applaud that and do our best for them.
Diolchaf i’r Aelodau am eu cyfraniadau. Trafodwyd y mater hwn yn drwyadl gennym yn y Pwyllgor ac ategaf yr hyn a ddywedodd Aelodau am ffermwyr llaeth yn dangos hyder yn eu dyfodol. Rhaid inni gymeradwyo hynny a gwneud ein gorau drostynt.
DerbyniwydAdopted O blaidFor 59 YmatalAbstain 0 Yn erbynAgainst 0
Derbyniwyd y cynnig.
Motion adopted.
Sut y pleidleisiodd yr AelodauHow Members voted
O blaidFor (59)
- Lorraine Barrett
- Mick Bates
- Peter Black
- Nick Bourne
- Rosemary Butler
- Alun Cairns
- Christine Chapman
- Cynog Dafis
- Jane Davidson
- Andrew Davies
- David Davies
- Geraint Davies
- Glyn Davies
- Janet Davies
- Jocelyn Davies
- Ron Davies
- Richard Edwards
- Sue Essex
- Val Feld
- Michael German
- Brian Gibbons
- William Graham
- Janice Gregory
- John Griffiths
- Christine Gwyther
- Alison Halford
- Brian Hancock
- Edwina Hart
- Christine Humphreys
- Jane Hutt
- Pauline Jarman
- Ann Jones
- Carwyn Jones
- Elin Jones
- Gareth Jones
- Helen Mary Jones
- Ieuan Wyn Jones
- Peter Law
- Huw Lewis
- David Lloyd
- John Marek
- David Melding
- Alun Michael
- Tom Middlehurst
- Jonathan Morgan
- Rhodri Morgan
- Lynne Neagle
- Alun Pugh
- Jenny Randerson
- Rod Richards
- Peter Rogers
- Janet Ryder
- Karen Sinclair
- Gwenda Thomas
- Owen John Thomas
- Rhodri Glyn Thomas
- Dafydd Wigley
- Kirsty Williams
- Phil Williams
Cynnig o Ddiffyg Hyder
Motion of No Confidence
Dafydd Elis-Thomas Y Llywydd siaradwyd yn Gymraeg t. 17
Dafydd Elis-Thomas The Presiding Officer spoken in Welsh p. 17
Byddaf yn caniatáu 10 munud yr un i lefarwyr pob gwrthblaid i siarad ar y cynnig cyn galw ar y Prif Ysgrifennydd i ymateb.
I will allow 10 minutes each for spokespeople from each opposition party to speak on the motion before calling the First Secretary to reply.
Ieuan Wyn Jones siaradwyd yn Gymraeg ac yn Saesneg t. 17
Ieuan Wyn Jones spoken in Welsh and English p. 17
Cynigiaf y cynnig sydd yn fy enw i ac enwau Nick Bourne, Michael German, Jocelyn Davies, William Graham a Jenny Randerson
in Welsh I propose the motion in my name and the names of Nick Bourne, Michael German, Jocelyn Davies, William Graham and Jenny Randerson, that
nad oes gan Gynulliad Cenedlaethol Cymru hyder yn y Prif Ysgrifennydd.
in Welsh the National Assembly for Wales has no confidence in the First Secretary.
Mae’r rheswm dros gyflwyno’r cynnig hwn o ddiffyg hyder yn y Prif Ysgrifennydd yn un syml: mae wedi methu ar fater sydd yn gwbl allweddol i Gymru, sef rhoi sicrwydd i ni y gall Cymru elwa yn llawn o arian Amcan 1. Mae hyn yn achos o dorri addewid a wnaethpwyd gan y Blaid Lafur. Dywedodd Tony Blair, yn dilyn uwchgynhadledd Berlin, y byddai Cymru yn derbyn £1.2 biliwn o arian Ewropeaidd. Ddwy noson cyn etholiad y Cynulliad ym mis Mai y llynedd, cydnabu’r Prif Ysgrifennydd, Alun Michael, mewn dadl deledu nad oedd arian wedi ei neilltuo ar gyfer blwyddyn gyntaf y rhaglen.
in Welsh The reason for tabling this motion of no confidence in the First Secretary is a simple one: he has failed on a matter of crucial importance to Wales, namely giving us an assurance that Wales can benefit fully from Objective 1 funding. This is a case of breaking a promise made by the Labour Party. Tony Blair said, following the Berlin summit, that Wales would receive £1.2 billion of European funding. Two nights before the Assembly elections last May, the First Secretary, Alun Michael, acknowledged in a televised debate that no money had been set aside for the first year of the programme.
Yr ydym ni ym Mhlaid Cymru wedi ei gwneud yn glir o’r dechrau ein bod yn ystyried bod arian Amcan 1 yn fater o hyder yn y Prif Ysgrifennydd. Wedi’r cwbl, cafodd y Prif Ysgrifennydd rhwng mis Mai y llynedd a mis Chwefror eleni i sicrhau bod darpariaeth ddigonol ar gyfer arian Amcan 1 yn y gyllideb eleni. Ni all Cymru barhau i fyw mewn gobaith fod mwy o arian o gwmpas rhyw gornel. Daeth yr amser i’r Llywodraeth roi’r arian ar y bwrdd.
in Welsh We in Plaid Cymru have made it clear from the outset that we consider Objective 1 funding to be a matter of confidence in the First Secretary. After all, the First Secretary has had between May last year and this February to ensure that there is adequate provision for Objective 1 funding in this year’s budget. Wales cannot continue to live in hope that there is more funding around some corner. The time has come for the Government to put the money on the table.
Gadewch inni ein hatgoffa ein hunain pam ein bod ni ym Mhlaid Cymru, byth ers cyhoeddi statws Amcan 1, wedi rhoi cymaint o bwys ar y ffaith fod yn rhaid i Gymru dderbyn pob ceiniog o’r hyn sydd yn ddyledus iddi. Rhoddwyd statws Amcan 1 i siroedd gwledig y gorllewin a chymoedd diwydiannol Morgannwg a Gwent am eu bod yn cael eu cydnabod ymysg rhanbarthau tlotaf Ewrop.
in Welsh Let us remind ourselves why we in Plaid Cymru, ever since Objective 1 status was announced, have placed so much importance on the fact that Wales must receive every penny it is owed. Objective 1 status was accorded to the rural counties of the west and the industrial valleys of Glamorgan and Gwent because they were recognised among the poorest regions of Europe.
Mae sicrhau bod Cymru yn gallu manteisio ar y cyfle i hybu economi yr ardaloedd hynny yn un o bynciau gwleidyddol pwysicaf ein dydd. Mae hyn yn rhan ganolog o dasg bwysicaf y Cynulliad, sef sicrhau cymdeithas decach a mwy llewyrchus a rhannu cyfoeth yn fwy cyfartal. Dyna pam yr aethom ni fel plaid allan o’n ffordd i gynnig cyfle ar ôl cyfle i’r Llywodraeth i sicrhau arian Amcan 1.
in Welsh Ensuring that Wales can take advantage of the chance to promote the economy of those areas is one of the most important political issues of the day. This is a central part of the Assembly’s most important task, which is ensuring a fairer and more prosperous society and ensuring that wealth is distributed more equitably. That is why we as a party went out of our way to afford the Government numerous opportunities to ensure Objective 1 funding.
Er mor siomedig yr ydym gyda llawer o waith y Llywodraeth, fel plaid yr oeddem yn benderfynol o roi pob cyfle iddi i ddod o hyd i’r arian. Yr oedd ennill yr arian a sicrhau cyfle teg i Gymru yn dod o flaen unrhyw fuddiannau eraill a oedd gennym fel plaid. Mae’r methiant hwn yn golygu nad oes gennym hyder bellach yn y Prif Ysgrifennydd i ofalu am fuddiannau Cymru. Ni all pethau barhau fel hyn. Mewn pryder am ddyfodol y Cynulliad o dan arweiniad y Prif Ysgrifennydd presennol, daethom i’r casgliad fod yn rhaid i’r Cynulliad gael dechrau newydd.
in Welsh However disappointed we are with much of the Government’s work, as a party we were determined to give it every opportunity to find the money. Obtaining funding and ensuring a fair opportunity for Wales came before any other party political interests we had. This failure means that we no longer have confidence in the First Secretary taking care of Wales’s interests. Things cannot continue like this. Such is our concern about the Assembly’s future under the present First Secretary’s leadership, that we have come to the conclusion that the Assembly must have a fresh start.
In proposing this vote of no confidence in the First Secretary, no one can accuse us of not giving him or the Assembly Executive ample warning of what was expected of them. We have made it clear that delivering on Objective 1 was an issue of confidence in the First Secretary himself. Securing our full share of European structural funds is vital if the Assembly is to have any chance of making a difference in Wales.
yn Saesneg Wrth gynnig y bleidlais hon o ddiffyg hyder yn y Prif Ysgrifennydd, ni all neb ein cyhuddo o beidio â rhoi iddo ef nac Adran Weithredol y Cynulliad ddigon o rybudd o’r hyn a ddisgwylid ganddynt. Dywedasom yn glir fod gweithredu ar Amcan 1 yn fater o hyder yn y Prif Ysgrifennydd ei hun. Mae sicrhau’n cyfran gyflawn o arian strwythurol Ewrop yn hanfodol os yw’r Cynulliad i gael unrhyw gyfle i wneud gwahaniaeth yng Nghymru.
A sum of £340 million each year for the next seven years above our fixed budget would make an enormous difference to the lives of people in west Wales and the Valleys. These areas are regarded as among the poorest in Europe. After all, why are we here in this Assembly? Is it not to improve the economic prospects of the people of Wales and to provide them with good quality, sustainable jobs? Do not many of us still believe in the good old-fashioned socialist principle of spreading prosperity throughout our country? Objective 1 gives us a once in a lifetime opportunity to do that.
yn Saesneg Byddai swm o £340 miliwn bob blwyddyn am y saith mlynedd nesaf uwchben ein cyllideb sefydlog yn gwneud gwahaniaeth aruthrol i fywydau pobl yng ngorllewin Cymru a’r Cymoedd. Ystyrir yr ardaloedd hyn ymhlith y tlotaf yn Ewrop. Wedi’r cwbl, pam yr ydym ni yma yn y Cynulliad hwn? Onid i wella rhagolygon economaidd pobl Cymru a darparu swyddi cynaliadwy o ansawdd da ar eu cyfer? Onid yw llawer ohonom yn dal i gredu yn yr hen egwyddor sosialaidd ganmoladwy o ledaenu ffyniant i bob cwr o’n gwlad? Mae Amcan 1 yn rhoi cyfle unwaith ac am byth inni wneud hynny.
Let us remind ourselves again of the two reasonable demands that we made of the First Secretary in my letter to him of 20 January. First, a guarantee that the £1.2 billion allocated to Wales by the European Union would be over and above the Government money for general public spending. Unless this European money is guaranteed in full, in addition to the Barnett formula, there is no point in awarding Objective 1 status to Wales. All we needed was a letter from the Treasury accepting that fundamental principle. Secondly, an adequate sum in this year’s budget to cover the European element and the match funding. We calculated that sum at a reasonable figure of £85 million.
yn Saesneg Gadewch inni’n hatgoffa’n hunain eto o’r ddau alwad rhesymol a wnaethom ar y Prif Ysgrifennydd yn fy llythyr ato ar 20 Ionawr. Yn gyntaf, sicrwydd y byddai’r £1.2 biliwn a ddyrannwyd i Gymru gan yr Undeb Ewropeaidd yn ychwanegol at arian y Llywodraeth ar gyfer gwariant cyhoeddus cyffredinol. Os na chaiff yr arian Ewropeaidd yma ei warantu yn llawn, ar ben fformwla Barnett, nid oes unrhyw bwynt rhoi statws Amcan 1 i Gymru. Y cwbl oedd ei angen arnom oedd llythyr gan y Trysorlys yn derbyn yr egwyddor sylfaenol honno. Yn ail, swm digonol yng nghyllideb eleni i dalu am yr elfen Ewropeaidd a’r arian cyfatebol. Cyfrifasom y byddai’r swm hwnnw yn ffigur rhesymol o £85 miliwn.
As we have made clear previously, there is not a single penny or, as Dafydd Wigley eloquently put it, a brass farthing extra in the budget approved yesterday to cover expenditure under Objective 1. The sum of £85 million is reasonable when one considers that Gordon Brown has a war chest of at least £7 billion, which could be as much as £12 billion. Let us clear up another matter. We have been told that—
yn Saesneg Fel y dywedasom yn glir o’r blaen, nid oes yr un geiniog, neu fel y dywedodd Dafydd Wigley yn huawdl iawn, yr un ddimai goch yn ychwanegol yn y gyllideb a gymeradwywyd ddoe i dalu am wariant dan Amcan 1. Mae’r swm o £85 miliwn yn rhesymol pan ystyriwch fod gan Gordon Brown gist ryfel o £7 biliwn o leiaf, a allai fod gymaint â £12 biliwn. Gadewch inni glirio un mater arall. Dywedwyd wrthym ein bod—
Brian Gibbons a gododd—
Brian Gibbons rose—
I am not giving way.
Nid wyf yn ildio.
Huw Lewis a gododd—
Huw Lewis rose—
Dafydd Elis-Thomas The Presiding Officer spoken in English p. 19
Dafydd Elis-Thomas Y Llywydd siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 19
Order. Our Standing Orders show that it is up to the Assembly Member speaking to choose whether or not to give way. I am told that they even adopt this practice in Westminster.
Trefn. Mae ein Rheolau Sefydlog yn dangos mai mater i’r Aelod Cynulliad sydd yn siarad yw dewis a ydyw am ildio ai peidio. Dywedir wrthyf eu bod yn dilyn yr arfer hwn yn San Steffan, hyd yn oed.
We were told that we fixed an artificial date. The assurance had to be given by 8 February because that is the date by which we needed to approve our budget. We did not choose that date. The First Secretary and the Executive chose it. Not only did we earnestly hope that the First Secretary would be successful in meeting our two key demands, we did everything that we could to help him secure those necessary funds. We co-operated in every possible way to secure the best for Wales. However, his failure to deliver on that issue means that a majority in this Assembly has lost confidence in him. He has failed the big test of his leadership in the Assembly. We now know the worth of Tony Blair’s claim that he would not let the people of Wales down. We have seen it for what it is—another meaningless phrase, like so many of New Labour’s soundbites.
Dywedwyd wrthym ein bod wedi gosod dyddiad artiffisial. Yr oedd yn rhaid rhoi’r sicrwydd erbyn 8 Chwefror am mai dyna’r dyddiad yr oedd angen i ni gymeradwyo’n cyllideb. Nid ni a ddewisodd y dyddiad hwnnw. Fe’i dewiswyd gan y Prif Ysgrifennydd a’r Adran Weithredol. Nid yn unig yr oeddem ni’n gobeithio’n daer y byddai’r Prif Ysgrifennydd yn llwyddo i ateb ein dwy alwad allweddol, gwnaethom bopeth a allem i’w helpu i gael yr arian angenrheidiol hwnnw. Cydweithredasom ym mhob ffordd bosibl i sicrhau’r gorau i Gymru. Fodd bynnag, mae ei fethiant i’n bodloni ar y mater hwnnw yn golygu fod mwyafrif yn y Cynulliad hwn wedi colli hyder ynddo. Mae wedi methu’r prawf mawr ar ei arweinyddiaeth yn y Cynulliad. Gwyddom bellach beth yw gwerth honiad Tony Blair na fyddai’n gadael pobl Cymru i lawr. Fe’i gwelsom am yr hyn ydyw—ymadrodd diystyr arall, fel cymaint o ddatganiadau bachog Llafur Newydd.
We were told that the First Secretary has access to Ministers. Sadly, he does not have access to their cheque books. This Assembly needs an Executive that will stand up for Wales to show determination and purpose in discussions with the Treasury in the next few months. We also need a First Secretary who, in the best interests of Wales, will have the bottle to challenge Tony Blair and Gordon Brown, even when they say ‘no’. I invite my fellow Members to support this motion.
Dywedwyd wrthym fod gan y Prif Ysgrifennydd glust Gweinidogion. Yn anffodus, nid oes ganddo fynediad i’w llyfrau siec. Mae ar y Cynulliad hwn angen Gweithrediaeth a wnaiff sefyll dros Gymru i ddangos penderfyniad a phendantrwydd mewn trafodaethau gyda’r Trysorlys yn yr ychydig fisoedd nesaf. Mae arnom angen Prif Ysgrifennydd hefyd a fydd, er lles Cymru, yn ddigon dewr i herio Tony Blair a Gordon Brown, hyd yn oed pan ddywedant ‘na’. Gwahoddaf fy nghyd-Aelodau i gefnogi’r cynnig hwn.
The Welsh Conservatives proposed a motion of no confidence in the First Secretary previously. We stood alone then. We always doubted how bankable Tony Blair’s promise, ‘I will not let Wales down’, would be. We now know for sure. No extra funds were announced in our budget. There was not one extra penny from Westminster for Objective 1 projects, as we always thought, said and warned.
Cynigiodd y Ceidwadwyr Cymreig bleidlais o ddiffyg hyder yn y Prif Ysgrifennydd o’r blaen. Yr oeddem ar ein pen ein hunain bryd hynny. Yr oeddem yn amau o’r cychwyn pa mor ddibynadwy fyddai addewid Tony Blair, ‘I will not let Wales down’. Erbyn hyn, gwyddom yn iawn. Ni chyhoeddwyd unrhyw arian ychwanegol yn ein cyllideb. Nid oedd un geiniog ychwanegol gan San Steffan ar gyfer prosiectau Amcan 1, fel y buom ni drwy’r amser yn amau, yn dweud ac yn rhybuddio.
The First Secretary’s problem is obvious. He is where he is because he is Tony Blair’s man. Tony Blair wanted him appointed because he would not cause trouble—not intentionally, at least. That backfired. He was put here because he would do London’s bidding. The First Secretary gave the impression that he would do what London told him. He was plucked from the Home Office, where he was obviously happy, to head an institution that he expressed no desire to serve. This institution, as I read recently, risks being the sub office of London Government in Wales rather that the hub of Welsh Government in Cardiff, because of how it is run by this administration and this First Secretary.
Mae problem y Prif Ysgrifennydd yn amlwg. Y mae ym mhle y mae am mai dyn Tony Blair ydyw. Yr oedd Tony Blair eisiau iddo gael ei benodi am na fyddai’n codi helynt—ddim yn fwriadol, beth bynnag. Aeth hynny o’i le. Fe’i rhoddwyd yma am y byddai’n ufuddhau i Lundain. Rhoddai’r Prif Ysgrifennydd yr argraff y gwnâi beth bynnag a ddywedai Llundain wrtho am wneud. Fe’i tynnwyd o’r Swyddfa Gartref, lle’r oedd yn amlwg yn hapus, i fod yn ben ar sefydliad nad oedd wedi mynegi unrhyw awydd i’w wasanaethu. Mae’r sefydliad hwn, fel a ddarllenais yn ddiweddar, mewn perygl o fod yn is-swyddfa Llywodraeth Llundain yng Nghymru yn hytrach nag yn ganolfan Llywodraeth Cymru yng Nghaerdydd, oherwydd y ffordd y mae’n cael ei redeg gan y weinyddiaeth hon a’r Prif Ysgrifennydd hwn.
The First Secretary gives the impression that Tony Blair only has to say ‘jump’ and he will ask ‘how high?’. Wales needs someone to fight for these vital match funds from Westminster. We could then ensure that worthwhile projects come forward. Rather than a Government that sits on its hands, does nothing, and fiddles while Wales burns, we need a national crusade to make the best of Objective 1. We need full use of and maximum benefit from Objective 1, not a half-hearted, hole-in-the-corner, clandestine exercise that looks more like an official secret than a policy that is to be shouted from the rooftops.
Mae’r Prif Ysgrifennydd yn rhoi’r argraff nad oes rhaid i Tony Blair ond dweud ‘neidia’ ac fe ofynna ef ‘pa mor uchel?’. Mae ar Gymru angen rhywun i ymladd am yr arian cyfatebol hanfodol hwn o San Steffan. Wedyn gallem sicrhau y daw prosiectau gwerth chweil i law. Yn hytrach na Llywodraeth sydd yn eistedd ar ei dwylo, yn gwneud dim, ac yn chwarae’r ffidil tra bod Cymru’n llosgi, mae angen crwsâd cenedlaethol i wneud y gorau o Amcan 1. Mae angen defnyddio Amcan 1 yn llawn a manteisio i’r eithaf arno, nid cynnal ymarferiad gwangalon, twll-yn-y-gornel, llechwraidd sydd yn debycach i gyfrinach swyddogol na pholisi sydd i’w weiddi o ben y toeau.
For a party that purports to believe in freedom of information, the Labour Party seems keen to bury the details of Objective 1. Why is it the highest level official secret of this Labour administration? In order that there are no demands for funds. Wales is the loser.
O blaid sydd yn honni credu mewn rhyddid gwybodaeth, mae’r Blaid Lafur i’w gweld yn awyddus iawn i gladdu manylion Amcan 1. Pam mai hwn yw cyfrinach swyddogol fwyaf y weinyddiaeth Lafur hon? Er mwyn sicrhau na fydd dim galwadau am arian. Cymru sydd yn colli.
All that can change today, and it needs to do so quickly. This is a once in a lifetime opportunity for Wales. If this motion is adopted, as I believe it will be, the Labour Group must think carefully about how to respond. It should not, rightly cannot and must not renominate Alun Michael. It was wrong for the First Secretary not to respond to the censure motion that was passed against the Secretary for Agriculture and Rural Development by appointing someone else. It was arrogant, high-handed and unwise.
Gall hynny i gyd newid heddiw, ac mae angen iddo wneud ar fyrder. Dyma gyfle unwaith ac am byth i Gymru. Os derbynnir y cynnig hwn, fel yr wyf yn credu y gwneir, rhaid i’r Grŵp Llafur feddwl yn ofalus sut i ymateb. Ni ddylent ailenwebu Alun Michael, ni allant wneud hynny’n gyfiawn, a rhaid iddynt beidio â gwneud hynny. Yr oedd y Prif Ysgrifennydd yn anghywir i beidio ag ymateb i’r rhybudd o gerydd a basiwyd yn erbyn yr Ysgrifennydd Amaethyddiaeth a Datblygu Gwledig drwy benodi rhywun arall. Yr oedd yn drahaus, yn unbenaethol ac yn annoeth.
Today’s situation is different. We are talking about an appointment made by this Assembly, not by the Labour Party or the Labour leader. Members of the Labour Cabinet are appointed by the First Secretary. However, the First Secretary is appointed by the Assembly. It would be extremely anti-democratic and unwise for Labour to put forward the same name again. It would start a game of political ping-pong in which the Assembly and Wales would be the losers. My party will not blink. We will continue to do what is necessary to ensure that someone heads this administration who will put up more of a fight at Westminster for the necessary funds.
Mae sefyllfa heddiw’n wahanol. Yr ydym yn sôn am benodiad a wnaethpwyd gan y Cynulliad hwn, nid gan y Blaid Lafur na’r arweinydd Llafur. Penodir aelodau Cabinet Llafur gan y Prif Ysgrifennydd. Fodd bynnag, penodir y Prif Ysgrifennydd gan y Cynulliad. Byddai’n eithriadol o annemocrataidd ac annoeth i Lafur gynnig yr un enw eto. Byddai’n dechrau gêm ping-pong gwleidyddol lle mai’r Cynulliad a Chymru fyddai ar eu colled. Ni wnaiff fy mhlaid i gau llygaid ar ffeithiau. Fe wnawn barhau i wneud yr hyn sydd ei angen i sicrhau y caiff y weinyddiaeth hon ei harwain gan rywun sydd yn fodlon gwneud mwy o safiad yn San Steffan dros gael yr arian angenrheidiol.
It would be a huge mistake to believe that the First Secretary could continue to lead this administration with his reputation in tatters, his credibility in shreds and the Government that he heads in complete disarray. Lurching from crisis to crisis while Wales bleeds would be on a par with believing that waiting lists are reducing, that the earth is flat or that the moon is made of green cheese.
Camgymeriad anferth fyddai credu y gallai’r Prif Ysgrifennydd barhau i arwain y weinyddiaeth hon a’i enw da yn rhacs, ei hygrededd yn deilchion a’r Llywodraeth y mae’n ei harwain mewn anhrefn llwyr. Byddai hercian o argyfwng i argyfwng tra mae Cymru’n gwaedu yn gyfwerth â chredu bod rhestri aros yn lleihau, bod y ddaear yn fflat neu bod y lleuad wedi’i wneud o gaws gwyrdd.
We have an opportunity to change things today. A decisive act in the Assembly today will ensure that Objective 1 funding is given the prominence it deserves and that the Assembly has the funds that it needs for the nation which we are here to serve.
Mae gennym gyfle i newid pethau heddiw. Bydd gweithred bendant yn y Cynulliad heddiw’n sicrhau y caiff arian Amcan 1 y lle blaenllaw y mae’n ei haeddu ac y caiff y Cynulliad yr arian y mae arno ei angen i’r genedl yr ydym yma i’w gwasanaethu.
Michael German spoken in Welsh and English p. 22
Michael German siaradwyd yn Gymraeg ac yn Saesneg t. 22
The world of politics can be unreal, Llywydd. The media world off which it feeds is little closer to reality. You only have to look outside this Chamber at the media gathered within this building to recognise the frenzy of today’s events. The prospect of change, fallen heroes and rising stars has created a buzz, a frisson and an energy which we find compelling, if we are honest with ourselves.
yn Saesneg Gall byd gwleidyddiaeth fod yn afreal, Llywydd. Mae’r byd cyfryngol y mae’n bwydo oddi arno ychydig yn agosach at realiti. Nid oes ond rhaid ichi edrych y tu allan i’r Siambr hon ar y cyfryngau sydd wedi ymgasglu o fewn yr adeilad hwn heddiw i gydnabod berw gwyllt digwyddiadau heddiw. Mae’r rhagolygon o newid, cwymp arwyr a dyrchafiad sêr newydd wedi creu cynnwrf, cyffro ac egni sydd yn atynfa inni, os ydym yn onest gyda ni’n hunain.
All this leaves real people cold—the people out there, beyond this building, who elected us, and particularly those who did not. Real people are looking down on all of us with disdain. What they see taking place in the Assembly has little relevance to their lives. They see our actions as games. We were not elected to play games. They are right. In this debate, we would all do well to remember the real people of Wales—those who elected us and those who did not turn out to vote.
yn Saesneg Mae hyn i gyd yn ddibwys yng ngolwg pobl go iawn—y bobl allan yn y fan acw, y tu hwnt i’r adeilad yma, a’n hetholodd ni, ac yn enwedig y rhai na’n hetholodd. Mae pobl go iawn yn edrych i lawr arnom ni i gyd gyda dirmyg. Nid oes gan yr hyn a welant yn digwydd yn y Cynulliad fawr o berthnasedd i’w bywydau hwy. Chwarae plant yw’n gweithredoedd ni yn eu llygaid hwy. Ni chawsom ein hethol i chwarae gemau. Maent yn iawn. Yn y ddadl hon, da o beth fyddai inni i gyd gofio pobl go iawn Cymru—y rhai a’n hetholodd a’r rheini na thrafferthodd bleidleisio.
We have not had a more serious debate than this during our short lifetime. There is much at stake: for you, Alun, for others in this Chamber, for the Assembly as a whole, for devolution itself, and for the people of Wales. The most obvious and personal consequence of the decision that we take today is that it affects the career of one man. He is a good, principled man, one who could work no harder and who has a genuine commitment to devolution, social justice and democracy. People are fond of saying that all politicians are the same: self-serving, two-faced, unprincipled people who will do anything for a vote. In this instance, they would be wrong. There are many good, principled people who enter politics to do public service. Alun Michael is one of them.
yn Saesneg Nid ydym wedi cael dadl fwy difrifol na hon yn ein hoes fer. Mae llawer yn y fantol: i chi, Alun, i eraill yn y Siambr hon, i’r Cynulliad yn gyffredinol, i ddatganoli ei hun, ac i bobl Cymru. Y canlyniad mwyaf amlwg a phersonol i’r penderfyniad a wnawn heddiw yw ei fod yn effeithio ar yrfa un dyn. Mae’n ddyn da, egwyddorol, yn un na allai weithio ddim caletach ac sydd â gwir ymrwymiad i ddatganoli, cyfiawnder cymdeithasol a democratiaeth. Mae pobl yn hoffi dweud fod gwleidyddion i gyd yr un fath: yn bobl hunanol, dauwynebog, diegwyddor a wnâi unrhyw beth am bleidlais. Yn yr achos hwn, byddent yn anghywir. Mae llawer o bobl dda, egwyddorol yn mynd i mewn i wleidyddiaeth er mwyn gwasanaethu’r cyhoedd. Mae Alun Michael yn un ohonynt.
We are not here to debate our First Secretary’s character or principles. Despite our Presiding Officer’s comments some months ago that there are no honourable gentlemen here, we can safely assume that he is wrong. However, we are not character witnesses, we are policy makers and decision takers. Most importantly, we are representatives, who owe our positions to those who elected us, who pay our salaries and place their hopes in us. In three years’ time, these same people will have the opportunity to hold us to account for our actions, policies and decisions. They will expect us to have done our best to hold the Executive, and the First Secretary in particular, to account for the decisions they have taken. That is what today’s debate is about: the simple, basic democratic principle of accountability.
yn Saesneg Nid ydym yma i drafod cymeriad nac egwyddorion ein Prif Ysgrifennydd. Er gwaethaf sylwadau ein Llywydd rai misoedd yn ôl nad oes gwŷr bonheddig anrhydeddus yma, gallwn yn ddiogel dybio ei fod yn anghywir. Fodd bynnag, nid tystion cymeriad mohonom, ond llunwyr polisi a gwneuthurwyr penderfyniadau. Yn bwysicaf oll, yr ydym yn gynrychiolwyr, sydd yn ddyledus am ein safleoedd i’r rhai a’n hetholodd, y rhai sydd yn talu’n cyflogau ac yn ymddiried eu gobeithion ynom. Ymhen tair blynedd, caiff yr un bobl hyn y cyfle i’n dal i gyfrif am ein gweithredoedd, ein polisïau a’n penderfyniadau. Byddant yn disgwyl inni fod wedi gwneud ein gorau i ddal y Weithrediaeth, a’r Prif Ysgrifennydd yn arbennig, yn gyfrifol am y penderfyniadau a wnaethant. Dyna fyrdwn dadl heddiw: yr egwyddor ddemocrataidd sylfaenol, syml, sef atebolrwydd.
During the election campaign last April and May, you, Alun, Dafydd Wigley, Rod Richards—goodness, how times have changed—and I repeatedly met in television and radio studios to debate the election issues. Time and again I said how important it was that Wales should receive the full match funding so that we could draw down all the Objective 1 money. Time and again I emphasised how important it was that that match funding should be in addition to the Welsh block grant. Again and again, you, Alun, were asked if and when this money would be available. In the last week of the campaign, Alun Michael answered the question. He said that the match funding would be subject to the Westminster Government’s comprehensive spending review. In other words, there would be no additional match funding until spring 2001. There was a row—there often is in the heat of an election campaign. The Liberal Democrats, together with Plaid Cymru and the Conservatives, said that that was not good enough and that a better commitment was needed and needed early.
yn Saesneg Yn ystod ymgyrch yr etholiad fis Ebrill a Mai diwethaf, daethoch chi, Alun, Dafydd Wigley, Rod Richards—bobol bach, mae pethau wedi newid—a minnau ynghyd yn aml mewn stiwdios teledu a radio i drafod cwestiynau’r etholiad. Dro ar ôl tro dywedais mor bwysig ydoedd y dylai Cymru gael yr arian cyfatebol llawn fel y gallem dynnu’r holl arian Amcan 1 i lawr. Dro ar ôl tro pwysleisiais mor bwysig ydoedd y dylai’r arian cyfatebol fod yn ychwanegol at y grant bloc i Gymru. Dro ar ôl tro, gofynnwyd i chi, Alun, a fyddai’r arian hwn ar gael a pha bryd. Yn wythnos olaf yr ymgyrch, atebodd Alun Michael y cwestiwn. Dywedodd y byddai arian cyfatebol yn amodol ar adolygiad gwariant cynhwysfawr Llywodraeth San Steffan. Mewn geiriau eraill, ni fyddai unrhyw arian cyfatebol ychwanegol tan wanwyn 2001. Cafwyd ffrae—fel a geir yn aml yng ngwres ymgyrch etholiadol. Dywedodd y Democratiaid Rhyddfrydol, ynghyd â Phlaid Cymru a’r Ceidwadwyr, nad oedd hynny’n ddigon da a bod angen ymrwymiad gwell, a hynny ar frys.
Our mandate is clear. I fought the election campaign and was elected by the people of south-east Wales to fight for match funding for this year. Today’s debate and the vote that will follow is an opportunity to fulfil this mandate, as it is for the First Secretary. It is the will of this Assembly that we should have the match funding. We are agreed that the Objective 1 opportunity is the biggest offered to Wales. We all know that we will not have another such opportunity to boost the prosperity of west Wales and the Valleys. We all acknowledge that more money could be available to us in the next seven years than we will ever see again from the European Union. We have debated the matter endlessly. We have taken the issue apart and rebuilt it in the Committees and at question time. The result has always been the same: the majority in this Assembly has demanded a commitment from the Treasury to provide the match funding for this year. That majority has also demanded that the First Secretary takes the fight for match funding to the Treasury. His mandate was clear and he has failed. In place of the cast iron assurance that Wales requires, we have had spin, stalling and sleight of hand.
yn Saesneg Mae ein mandad yn glir. Ymladdais yr ymgyrch etholiadol a chael fy ethol gan bobl de-ddwyrain Cymru i ymladd dros arian cyfatebol am eleni. Mae dadl heddiw a’r bleidlais a fydd yn ei dilyn yn gyfle i gyflawni’r mandad hwn, fel y mae i’r Prif Ysgrifennydd. Ewyllys y Cynulliad hwn yw y dylem gael yr arian cyfatebol. Yr ydym yn cytuno fod y cyfle a gynigir gan Amcan 1 y mwyaf a gynigiwyd i Gymru. Gwyddom i gyd na chawn gyfle arall tebyg i hybu ffyniant gorllewin Cymru a’r Cymoedd. Yr ydym i gyd yn cydnabod y gallai mwy o arian fod ar gael inni yn y saith mlynedd nesaf nag a welwn byth eto gan yr Undeb Ewropeaidd. Yr ydym wedi trafod y mater yn ddiddiwedd. Yr ydym wedi datgymalu’r cwestiwn a’i ailadeiladu yn y Pwyllgorau ac yn y sesiwn gwestiynau. Yr un fu’r canlyniad bob tro: mae’r mwyafrif yn y Cynulliad hwn wedi mynnu ymrwymiad gan y Trysorlys i ddarparu’r arian cyfatebol am eleni. Mae’r mwyafrif hwnnw hefyd wedi mynnu bod y Prif Ysgrifennydd yn mynd â’r frwydr am arian cyfatebol i’r Trysorlys. Yr oedd ei fandad yn glir ac mae wedi methu. Yn lle’r sicrwydd cadarn y mae Cymru ei eisiau, cawsom sbin, oedi a deheurwydd.
Yr oedd yn gwybod yn iawn yr hyn oedd yn rhaid iddo ei wneud, ac nid yw ef wedi ei wneud. Mae pobl yn y Cymoedd a gorllewin Cymru—pobl go iawn. Mae ef wedi methu â rhoi iddynt yr hyn maent ei angen ac yn ei haeddu. Eu swyddi, eu haddysg a’u dyfodol hwy sydd yn y fantol.
in Welsh He knew full well what he had to do, and he has not done it. There are people in the Valleys and west Wales—real people. He has failed to give them what they need and deserve. It is their jobs, their education and their future that hang in the balance.
As I said, there are people in the Valleys and west Wales—real people—whom he has failed. Their jobs, education and training, and environment are at stake. It is on the behalf of these people that we propose this motion. It is for them that we hold the First Secretary to account: not just for the failure to deliver match funding—as if that were not enough—but the failure to deliver for the Assembly and on the very principle of devolution itself. The Objective 1 issue is only the most potent and powerful symbol of the minority administration’s failings. It has failed to deliver the principles of devolution and to fight for Welsh solutions to Welsh problems.
yn Saesneg Fel y dywedais, mae pobl yn y Cymoedd a gorllewin Cymru—pobl go iawn—sydd wedi’u siomi ganddo. Mae eu swyddi, eu haddysg a’u hyfforddiant, a’u hamgylchedd yn y fantol. Ar ran y bobl hyn yr ydym ni’n rhoi’r cynnig hwn gerbron. Drostynt hwy yr ydym yn galw’r Prif Ysgrifennydd i gyfrif: nid dim ond am fethu sicrhau arian cyfatebol—fel pe na bai hynny’n ddigon—ond am fethu cyflawni dros y Cynulliad ac ar egwyddor datganoli ei hun. Dim ond y symbol cryfaf a mwyaf pwerus o fethiannau’r weinyddiaeth leiafrifol yw’r cwestiwn Amcan 1. Mae wedi methu cyflawni egwyddorion datganoli ac ymladd dros atebion Cymreig i broblemau Cymru.
To excuse the lack of a firm commitment on match funding by pointing to the Labour Government in Westminster’s comprehensive spending review timetable is to take Westminster’s side, not the Assembly’s. July may be a date that suits the Chancellor’s plans but it does not suit the Assembly. There are other such examples. The ban on beef on the bone was lifted in line with London’s lead, not Wales’s. The performance-related pay scheme for teachers is being manoeuvred to match that of England, not to match the ideas and principles agreed by the Assembly’s education committees. The people who only pay a passing interest to the Assembly’s affairs—the real people—respond to these decisions by asking, ‘What is the point? Why have devolution if the Assembly does not have the courage to stand up for Wales when Welsh solutions should be different from English solutions?’
yn Saesneg Mae esgusodi’r diffyg ymrwymiad cadarn ar arian cyfatebol drwy bwyntio at amserlen adolygiad gwariant cynhwysfawr y Llywodraeth Lafur yn San Steffan yn gyfystyr ag ochri gyda San Steffan, yn hytrach na chyda’r Cynulliad. Efallai bod mis Gorffennaf yn ddyddiad sydd yn gweddu i gynlluniau’r Canghellor ond nid yw’n gweddu i’r Cynulliad. Mae enghreifftiau eraill tebyg. Codwyd y gwaharddiad ar gig eidion ar yr asgwrn yn unol ag arweiniad Llundain, nid arweiniad Cymru. Mae’r cynllun tâl ar sail perfformiad i athrawon yn cael ei deilwrio i gyd-fynd â chynllun Lloegr, nid i gyd-fynd â’r syniadau a’r egwyddorion a gytunwyd gan bwyllgorau addysg y Cynulliad. Mae’r bobl sydd yn talu ychydig o sylw yn unig i faterion y Cynulliad—y bobl go iawn—yn ymateb i’r penderfyniadau hyn drwy ofyn ‘Beth yw’r pwynt? Pam cael datganoli os nad yw’r Cynulliad yn ddigon dewr i sefyll dros Gymru pan ddylai atebion Cymru fod yn wahanol i atebion Lloegr?’
Alun, you have often referred to the Assembly as a fragile institution. You are right. It was born of a narrow majority, elected on a low turn-out and has been granted limited powers. There are two ways to care for such fragility in an infant. It can be cosseted, fussed over, kept inside and protected from all the dangers found in the rough and tough of the real world. Or the windows can be opened to let the air in, to allow it to experience the vitality and excitement of life outside, and to encourage it to grow strong, under a watchful eye. The Labour minority administration here has made the wrong choice. It has avoided risk, taken the cautious options and erred towards safety. The result has been unexciting, underwhelming and uninspiring. We must change and must be seen to change, starting with a change of leadership.
yn Saesneg Alun, yr ydych wedi cyfeirio’n aml at y Cynulliad fel sefydliad bregus. Yr ydych yn llygad eich lle. Fe’i ganwyd drwy fwyafrif bach, ei ethol ar bleidlais isel, a phwerau cyfyngedig a roddwyd iddo. Mae dwy ffordd o ofalu am faban mor fregus. Gellir ei faldodi, ffysian drosto, ei gadw gartref a’i warchod rhag yr holl beryglon a geir yn sgarmes a thrafferthion y byd go iawn. Neu gellir agor y ffenestri i adael yr awyr iach i mewn, i ganiatáu iddo brofi bwrlwm a chyffro bywyd y tu allan, ac i’w annog i dyfu’n gryf, dan lygad gofalgar. Mae gweinyddiaeth leiafrifol Llafur yn y fan yma wedi gwneud y dewis anghywir. Mae wedi osgoi risg, wedi cymryd y dewisiadau gofalus ac wedi chwarae’n saff. Bu’r canlyniad yn ddigynnwrf, yn ddiysgogiad ac yn anysbrydolgar. Rhaid inni newid a chael ein gweld yn newid, gan ddechrau gyda newid arweinyddiaeth.
We must return to some of the themes on which we fought the election and to the spirit of the referendum. The Liberal Democrats, Plaid Cymru and Labour all campaigned for new politics. Our expectations were high, but they were not unattainable. We must try again. There is good work that we can build on. Good, co-operative and progressive work is being carried out in the Subject Committees. It is not difficult to find a consensus on many issues. The Liberal Democrats, Labour and Plaid Cymru are all committed to social justice and to building a more self-reliant economy in which there are jobs for people in every community. We are committed to tackling poverty and lack of opportunity. We are all determined to invest in and rebuild our public services, schools, colleges, health services and transport systems. In debate after debate, we can find more that unites than divides us. We have taken a few small steps towards forming a government built upon a genuine principled partnership of power.
yn Saesneg Rhaid inni ddychwelyd at rai o’r themâu yr ymladdasom yr etholiad arnynt ac at ysbryd y refferendwm. Ymgyrchodd y Democratiaid Rhyddfrydol, Plaid Cymru a Llafur i gyd dros wleidyddiaeth newydd. Yr oedd ein disgwyliadau’n uchel, ond nid yn amhosibl eu cyrraedd. Rhaid inni roi cynnig arall arni. Mae gwaith da y gallwn adeiladu arno. Mae gwaith da, cydweithredol a blaengar yn cael ei gyflawni yn y Pwyllgorau Pwnc. Nid yw’n anodd cael consensws ar lawer o faterion. Mae’r Democratiaid Rhyddfrydol, Llafur a Phlaid Cymru i gyd yn ymroddedig i gyfiawnder cymdeithasol ac i adeiladu economi mwy hunan-ddibynnol lle bydd gwaith ar gael i bobl ym mhob cymuned. Yr ydym wedi ymrwymo i fynd i’r afael â thlodi a diffyg cyfle. Yr ydym i gyd yn benderfynol o fuddsoddi yn ein gwasanaethau cyhoeddus, ein hysgolion, ein colegau, ein gwasanaethau iechyd a’n systemau trafnidiaeth a’u hailadeiladu. Mewn dadl ar ôl dadl, gallwn ganfod mwy sydd yn ein huno nag sydd yn ein gwahanu. Yr ydym wedi cymryd ychydig o gamau bychain tuag at ffurfio llywodraeth a sylfaenir ar wir bartneriaeth grym egwyddorol.
Such a government would be prepared to stand up for Wales against the interests of Whitehall. It would be prepared to argue the case for extra powers where the need is identified. It would be based on a greater openness of decision-making and on power sharing, not just between parties, but between the Executive and Committees, between Assembly Secretaries and Members, between the centre and the regions, and, most important of all, between the Assembly and the people of Wales.
yn Saesneg Byddai llywodraeth o’r fath yn barod i sefyll dros Gymru yn erbyn buddiannau Whitehall. Byddai’n barod i ddadlau’r achos dros bwerau ychwanegol lle gwelir yr angen. Byddai’n seiliedig ar benderfyniadau mwy agored ac ar rannu grym, nid yn unig rhwng pleidiau, ond rhwng y Weithrediaeth a Phwyllgorau, rhwng Ysgrifenyddion ac Aelodau’r Cynulliad, rhwng y canol a’r rhanbarthau ac, yn anad dim, rhwng y Cynulliad a phobl Cymru.
We can do it. We can make a difference. We can recover lost ground. However, we cannot do that with a First Secretary who has lost the confidence of the people of Wales. Therefore, for the real people of the south Wales Valleys, of the west and north of our country, for the future credibility of the Assembly and for the very principle of devolution, Alun, we ask you to go.
yn Saesneg Gallwn ei gwneud hi. Gallwn wneud gwahaniaeth. Gallwn adennill tir a gollwyd. Fodd bynnag, ni allwn wneud hynny gyda Phrif Ysgrifennydd sydd wedi colli hyder pobl Cymru. Felly, er mwyn pobl go iawn cymoedd y de, pobl gorllewin a gogledd ein gwlad, er mwyn hygrededd y Cynulliad i’r dyfodol ac er mwyn holl egwyddor datganoli, Alun, gofynnwn ichi fynd.
Alun Michael The First Secretary spoken in Welsh and English p. 27
Alun Michael Y Prif Ysgrifennydd siaradwyd yn Gymraeg ac yn Saesneg t. 27
I have listened carefully to the criticisms made against my leadership. I am pleased to have the opportunity to respond directly—and, I almost want to say, at last. The last few weeks have been a frustrating time for the administration. The atmosphere of uncertainty has made it difficult for people to carry on with the work that we are here to do—to build a better future for the people of Wales. I am pleased that we can tackle this issue head-on and I hope that once we have done so, the Assembly can return to the serious work that it was elected to do. Ieuan’s demands were set out clearly in a letter that he sent to me and published and were refuted in my response. The date, 8 February, was an artificial deadline, Ieuan, because adequate cash is in this year’s budget in full. I reject this motion, because it is based on deception. It is based on a false premise—the suggestion that I have failed to deliver. Plaid Cymru knows full well that it is a false premise.
yn Saesneg Yr wyf wedi gwrando’n astud ar y beirniadu a fu yn erbyn fy arweiniad. Yr wyf yn falch o gael y cyfle i ymateb yn uniongyrchol—a, bron yr hoffwn ddweud, o’r diwedd. Bu’r ychydig wythnosau diwethaf yn amser rhwystredig i’r weinyddiaeth. Mae’r awyrgylch ansicr wedi ei gwneud yn anodd i bobl fynd ymlaen â’r gwaith yr ydym yma i’w wneud—sef adeiladu gwell dyfodol i bobl Cymru. Yr wyf yn falch y gallwn fynd i’r afael â’r cwestiwn hwn ar ei ben a gobeithiaf unwaith y byddwn wedi gwneud hynny, y gall y Cynulliad fynd yn ôl at y gwaith difrifol y cafodd ei ethol i’w wneud. Amlinellwyd gofynion Ieuan yn glir mewn llythyr a anfonodd ataf fi ac a gyhoeddwyd ganddo, ac fe’u gwrthbrofwyd yn fy ateb. Yr oedd y dyddiad, 8 Chwefror, yn derfyn amser artiffisial, Ieuan, oherwydd mae arian digonol yng nghyllideb eleni yn llawn. Gwrthodaf y cynnig hwn, am ei fod yn seiliedig ar dwyll. Mae’n seiliedig ar osodiad anwir—yr awgrym fy mod i wedi methu cyflawni addewid. Mae Plaid Cymru’n gwybod yn iawn mai gosodiad anwir yw hwn.
Dywedaf wrth Ieuan Wyn Jones fod y Blaid Lafur wedi cadw ei haddewidion ac y bydd yn cadw ei haddewidion. Y Blaid Lafur a enillodd Amcan 1 i Gymru, a’r Blaid Lafur fydd yn rhoi cyfle, drwy Amcan 1, i unigolion a chymunedau ledled Cymru.
in Welsh I say to Ieuan Wyn Jones that the Labour Party has kept its promises and will keep its promises. The Labour Party won Objective 1 for Wales, and the Labour Party will give opportunities to individuals and communities throughout Wales, through Objective 1.
I have not failed to deliver. I have delivered and I will deliver. I have every confidence that in July, at the end of the negotiating process that is currently underway with the Treasury, we will deliver in full the money that is due to the people of Wales and which the Labour Government secured for the people of Wales. I have already delivered the extra money needed in the financial year that starts in April. We made all this clear yesterday in the budget. The earliest Objective 1 can start under the European Commission’s timetable is April this year. The £35 million extra that I secured for the budget is there.
yn Saesneg Nid wyf wedi methu cyflawni’r addewid. Cyflawnais ac fe wnaf gyflawni. Mae gennyf bob hyder y gwnawn ym mis Gorffennaf, ar ddiwedd y broses negodi sydd ar droed ar hyn o bryd gyda’r Trysorlys, sicrhau pob ceiniog o’r arian sydd yn ddyledus i bobl Cymru ac a sicrhawyd gan y Llywodraeth Lafur i bobl Cymru. Yr wyf eisoes wedi sicrhau’r arian ychwanegol sydd ei angen yn y flwyddyn ariannol sydd yn dechrau ym mis Ebrill. Gwnaethom hyn i gyd yn glir ddoe yn y gyllideb. Y cynharaf y gall Amcan 1 ddechrau dan amserlen y Comisiwn Ewropeaidd yw mis Ebrill eleni. Mae’r £35 miliwn ychwanegol a sicrhawyd gennyf fi ar gyfer y gyllideb yn ei le.
For future years, let me say again that we are in the middle of a process that has not reached its completion. You may not like the process or the timescale, but to call a vote of no confidence now is like accusing a long-distance runner of losing the race when he is three quarters of the way through and way ahead of all the other runners. The race is not yet finished. You can make the judgment when the race is run, but not now. We are ahead of other areas in the United Kingdom. We are ahead of other countries. This motion plays games with the poorest communities and the weakest economies in Wales.
yn Saesneg Ar gyfer blynyddoedd y dyfodol, gadewch imi ddweud eto ein bod ar ganol proses sydd heb gyrraedd ei therfyn. Efallai nad ydych yn hoffi’r broses na’r amserlen, ond mae galw pleidlais o ddiffyg hyder yn awr fel cyhuddo rhedwr hirbell o golli’r ras ac yntau dri chwarter o’r ffordd drwyddi ac ymhell ar y blaen i’r rhedwyr eraill i gyd. Nid yw’r ras ar ben eto. Gallwch farnu wedi i’r ras gael ei rhedeg, ond nid yn awr. Yr ydym ar y blaen i ardaloedd eraill yn y Deyrnas Unedig. Yr ydym ar y blaen i wledydd eraill. Mae’r cynnig hwn yn chwarae gemau gyda’r cymunedau tlotaf a’r economïau gwannaf yng Nghymru.
I listened to Nick Bourne. Yes, he was the first to table a cynical motion of no confidence, but his cynicism in supporting a motion on this topic was refuted by the Member sitting behind him, the ex-Minister Rod Richards. The threat, Nick, to this Assembly is not from someone like myself who has supported an elected Assembly for Wales for over 30 years, but from those whose party has never supported an elected Assembly for Wales.
yn Saesneg Gwrandewais ar Nick Bourne. Ie, ef oedd y cyntaf i gyflwyno cynnig sinigaidd o ddiffyg hyder, ond gwrthbrofwyd ei sinigiaeth yn cefnogi cynnig ar y pwnc hwn gan yr Aelod sydd yn eistedd y tu ôl iddo, y cyn-Weinidog Rod Richards. Daw’r bygythiad, Nick, i’r Cynulliad hwn nid oddi wrth rywun fel fi sydd wedi cefnogi Cynulliad etholedig i Gymru ers dros 30 mlynedd, ond oddi wrth y rheini nad yw eu plaid erioed wedi cefnogi Cynulliad etholedig i Gymru.
Mike German was right about the way that this leaves people outside the Assembly cold. These games are irrelevant to the lives of ordinary people. However, I am disappointed that in saying some things that made sense, Mike also talked down our successes in finding Welsh solutions to Welsh problems in this Chamber. Let us think back to the previous challenges: the cynical challenge from Plaid Cymru to Ron Davies that he would not deliver Objective 1 and that Labour would not deliver Objective 1. Crates of champagne were promised if that unlikely outcome was fulfilled.
yn Saesneg Yr oedd Mike German yn iawn am y ffordd y mae pobl y tu allan i’r Cynulliad yn ddifater ynghylch hyn. Mae’r gemau hyn yn amherthnasol i fywydau pobl gyffredin. Fodd bynnag, yr wyf yn siomedig fod Mike, tra’n dweud rhai pethau a oedd yn gwneud synnwyr, hefyd wedi dibrisio’n llwyddiannau o ran darganfod atebion Cymreig i broblemau Cymru yn y Siambr hon. Meddyliwn yn ôl i’r heriau blaenorol: yr her sinigaidd gan Blaid Cymru i Ron Davies na fyddai’n sicrhau Amcan 1 ac na fyddai Llafur yn sicrhau Amcan 1. Addawyd cratiau o siampên pe cyflawnid y gamp annhebygol honno.
Let us return to the real challenge. I promised that, by the real deadline in July, we would deliver for the people of Wales. I would not do this job if I did not believe that. If I did not deliver, then would be the time for me to consider my position and for this Assembly to pass judgment, not today, at a time chosen by Plaid Cymru. It was an arbitrary deadline plucked out of thin air to distract attention from its own internal party squabbling. For what else does it hope to achieve by today’s motion? Does it seriously believe that by removing me from office our position with the Treasury will be strengthened? Does it really think that Gordon Brown is more likely to listen to someone else—someone put in place, not by the Labour Party, but by the opposition? Does Plaid Cymru believe that the iron Chancellor will abandon all previous precedent and suddenly cave in to its blackmail? Does it believe that a different leader can somehow click his or her fingers and Objective 1 money will start falling out of the sky? That is not realistic; it will not happen. If Plaid Cymru thinks that the Labour Party will let other parties dictate its choice of leader for the Assembly, its judgment is even more offbeat than I thought. The Labour Party will not allow that to happen.
yn Saesneg Gadewch inni ddychwelyd at yr her go iawn. Addewais y byddem, erbyn y terfyn amser go iawn ym mis Gorffennaf, yn cyflawni’n haddewid dros bobl Cymru. Ni fyddwn yn gwneud y swydd hon pe na bawn i’n credu hynny. Pe na bawn yn cyflawni, dyna fyddai’r amser imi ystyried fy sefyllfa ac i’r Cynulliad hwn basio barn, nid heddiw, ar amser a ddewiswyd gan Blaid Cymru. Yr oedd yn derfyn amser mympwyol a dynnwyd allan o’r awyr i dynnu sylw oddi wrth y cecru mewnol yn ei phlaid ei hun. Oherwydd beth arall y mae’n gobeithio’i gyflawni drwy’r cynnig yma heddiw? A ydyw’n credu o ddifrif y bydd fy symud i o’m swydd yn cryfhau’n sefyllfa ni gyda’r Trysorlys? A ydyw’n meddwl go iawn y bydd Gordon Brown yn fwy tebygol o wrando ar rywun arall—rhywun a roddwyd yn ei le, nid gan y Blaid Lafur, ond gan yr wrthblaid? A ydyw Plaid Cymru’n credu y bydd y Canghellor haearn yn rhoi heibio pob cynsail flaenorol ac yn sydyn yn ildio i flacmel? A ydyw’n credu y bydd arweinydd gwahanol rywsut yn gallu clicio’i fysedd ac y dechreua arian Amcan 1 gwympo o’r awyr? Nid yw hynny’n realistig; nid yw’n mynd i ddigwydd. Os yw Plaid Cymru’n meddwl y gwnaiff y Blaid Lafur adael i bleidiau eraill reoli ei dewis o arweinydd i’r Cynulliad, mae ei barn hyd yn oed ymhellach ar gyfeiliorn nag a feddyliais. Ni wnaiff y Blaid Lafur ganiatáu i hynny ddigwydd.
We must face the reality of our position. Labour is a minority administration. We are dependent on the support of other parties. That is why I and my colleagues have sought to put forward clear policies confidently while engaging and seeking agreement on key issues from all parties.
yn Saesneg Rhaid inni wynebu realiti’n sefyllfa. Gweinyddiaeth leiafrifol yw Llafur. Yr ydym yn dibynnu ar gefnogaeth pleidiau eraill. Dyna pam yr wyf fi a’m cyd-Aelodau wedi ceisio cyflwyno polisïau clir yn hyderus tra’n sicrhau ac yn ceisio cytundeb ar faterion allweddol gan bob plaid.
Let us reflect for a moment on what we have achieved since the transfer of powers six months ago: cross-party agreement on the establishment of a children’s commissioner to promote the rights and interests of children and young people in Wales; a radical new structure for post-16 education and training, which will meet the needs of young people and employers in this country; a new approach to involving young people through Young Voice/Llais Ifanc and proposals for a new youth service; a local government settlement, acknowledged by many in local government as the best for years; the first export contract anywhere in the UK to get our beef back into Europe after the lifting of the export ban; and new jobs, such as the 600 announced on Monday in Pembroke Dock. People talk about the need for inclusive politics. We have agreed a budget that took on board 31 out of the 33 Subject Committee recommendations—I call that inclusive politics. We have invited the other parties to help us develop an ambitious corporate plan for the Assembly, as well as consulting groups and organisations across Wales—that is inclusive politics. We are making unanimous representations to the UK Government to tackle the crisis in agriculture, taking full account of the views of other parties—that is inclusive politics. Therefore, we have made enormous progress, despite the difficulties. I am committed to working with the other parties to find ways forward on which we can all agree. If that means developing new structures to help us resolve our difficulties and negotiate progress, we must accept that challenge. I have proved my willingness to do so.
yn Saesneg Gadewch inni edrych yn ôl am funud ar yr hyn yr ydym wedi’i gyflawni ers y trosglwyddo pwerau chwe mis yn ôl: cytundeb trawsbleidiol ar sefydlu comisiynydd plant i hyrwyddo hawliau a buddiannau plant a phobl ifanc yng Nghymru; strwythur radical newydd ar gyfer addysg a hyfforddiant ôl-16, a fydd yn ateb anghenion pobl ifanc a chyflogwyr yn y wlad hon; cynllun newydd i gynnwys pobl ifanc drwy Llais Ifanc/Young Voice a chynigion ar gyfer gwasanaeth ieuenctid newydd; cytundeb llywodraeth leol, a gydnabyddir gan lawer mewn llywodraeth leol fel y gorau ers blynyddoedd; y contract allforio cyntaf yn unman yn y DU i gael ein cig eidion yn ôl i mewn i Ewrop ar ôl codi’r gwaharddiad allforio; a swyddi newydd, fel y 600 a gyhoeddwyd ddydd Llun yn Noc Penfro. Mae pobl yn siarad am yr angen am wleidyddiaeth gynhwysol. Yr ydym wedi cytuno ar gyllideb a dderbyniodd 31 allan o 33 argymhelliad y Pwyllgorau Pwnc—dyna wleidyddiaeth gynhwysol i mi. Yr ydym wedi gwahodd y pleidiau eraill i’n helpu i ddatblygu cynllun corfforaethol uchelgeisiol ar gyfer y Cynulliad, yn ogystal ag ymgynghori â grwpiau a sefydliadau ledled Cymru—dyna wleidyddiaeth gynhwysol. Yr ydym yn cyflwyno sylwadau unfrydol i Lywodraeth y DU i fynd i’r afael â’r argyfwng mewn amaethyddiaeth, gan roi sylw llawn i sylwadau’r pleidiau eraill—dyna wleidyddiaeth gynhwysol. Felly, yr ydym wedi cymryd camau breision ymlaen, er gwaethaf yr anawsterau. Yr wyf wedi ymrwymo i weithio gyda’r pleidiau eraill i ganfod ffyrdd ymlaen y gallwn i gyd gytuno arnynt. Os yw hynny’n golygu datblygu strwythurau newydd i’n helpu i ddatrys ein gwahaniaethau a negodi camau ymlaen, rhaid inni dderbyn yr her honno. Yr wyf wedi profi fy mharodrwydd i wneud hynny.
Let nobody think that there is a magic wand that will suddenly solve the problems that we face in Wales. Things will not change over night. It will take time for us to put in place the building blocks that we need to effect real change in people’s lives, whether that be done through European programmes, new youth support services or ways of tackling social exclusion. It all takes time, as it does for a new institution to grow to maturity. Today’s motion puts all of that at risk.
yn Saesneg Na foed i neb feddwl fod yna ffon hud a wnaiff yn sydyn ddatrys y problemau a wynebwn yng Nghymru. Ni wnaiff pethau newid dros nos. Cymer amser inni osod y blociau adeiladu angenrheidiol yn eu lle i achosi gwir newid ym mywydau pobl, boed hynny drwy raglenni Ewropeaidd, gwasanaethau cefnogi ieuenctid newydd neu ffyrdd o fynd i’r afael ag allgáu cymdeithasol. Mae hyn oll yn cymryd amser, fel y mae i sefydliad newydd dyfu i aeddfedrwydd. Mae cynnig heddiw’n peryglu hynny i gyd.
I hope we can make a fresh start after today’s debate. We should build on the successes of the first six months, recognise that there is room for improvement and work together with a renewed determination in the interests of Wales.
yn Saesneg Gobeithiaf y gallwn ddechrau o’r newydd ar ôl dadl heddiw. Dylem adeiladu ar lwyddiannau’r chwe mis cyntaf, cydnabod bod lle i wella a gweithio gyda’n gilydd gyda phenderfyniad newydd er budd Cymru.
In the past few days, with the national media covering our affairs, Plaid Cymru’s agenda has unravelled. It is now exposed. It wants to wrestle credit for Objective 1 from the Labour party—a credit that we were happy to share with those who would work with us to transform our poorest economies—and cares nothing for the damage done to the Assembly in the process. It is clearly its intention to hold a no confidence vote today and then another as soon as tomorrow. It would be intolerable and unacceptable for any First Secretary, whether coming into office after an election, a resignation or any other circumstance, to be faced with such an immediate challenge. To come to the heart of today’s challenge, it is also unacceptable for any party to be faced with others seeking to change its leader. I would have no truck with trying to change the leader of another party. I believe in party loyalty for others, as much as for my own party.
yn Saesneg Yn yr ychydig ddiwrnodau diwethaf, gyda’r cyfryngau cenedlaethol yn rhoi sylw i’n busnes, mae agenda Plaid Cymru wedi ymddatod. Mae’n weladwy i bawb bellach. Mae’r Blaid eisiau cipio’r clod am Amcan 1 oddi wrth y Blaid Lafur—clod yr oeddem ni’n hapus i’w rannu gyda’r rheini a weithiai gyda ni i drawsffurfio ein heconomïau tlotaf—heb falio dim am y niwed a wneir i’r Cynulliad yn y broses. Yn amlwg, ei bwriad yw cynnal pleidlais o ddiffyg hyder heddiw ac wedyn un arall cyn gynted ag yfory. Byddai’n anoddefadwy ac yn annioddefol i unrhyw Brif Ysgrifennydd, boed yn dod i’w swydd yn sgîl etholiad, ymddiswyddiad neu unrhyw amgylchiad arall, wynebu her o’r fath mor fuan. I fynd at galon her heddiw, mae’n annerbyniol hefyd i unrhyw blaid wynebu sefyllfa lle mae eraill yn ceisio newid ei harweinydd. Ni fyddai gennyf fi ddim i’w wneud â cheisio newid arweinydd plaid arall. Credaf mewn teyrngarwch plaid i eraill, gymaint ag i’m plaid fy hun.
A repeated political ping-pong would see my colleagues in the Labour group, who have shown enormous unity and purpose over several trying months, torn between their loyalty to the Labour Party and their passionate desire to make the Assembly work. That is the intention. It cannot be right for Plaid Cymru to choose who leads Labour, nor is it right for the Conservatives or the Liberal Democrats to connive with that purpose. That is why I have decided to put the choice back with the Labour Party, by resigning as First Secretary with immediate effect. Here is that resignation in writing, as required under Standing Orders. It is for the Labour Party, my colleagues in the Assembly Labour group and the representatives of the wider party, to decide who should be presented to this Assembly as our candidate for the post of First Secretary. That is why, Llywydd, I formally, and in writing, as required by Standing Orders, present you with my resignation as First Secretary.
yn Saesneg Byddai ping-pong gwleidyddol diddiwedd yn gweld fy nghyd-Aelodau yn y grŵp Llafur, sydd wedi dangos undod a phwrpas mawr dros nifer o fisoedd anodd, yn cael eu rhwygo rhwng eu teyrngarwch i’r Blaid Lafur a’u hawydd angerddol i wneud i’r Cynulliad weithio. Dyna’r bwriad. Ni all fod yn iawn i Blaid Cymru ddewis pwy sydd yn arwain Llafur, nac yn iawn i’r Ceidwadwyr na’r Democratiaid Rhyddfrydol gydgynllwynio i’r diben hwnnw. Dyna pam yr wyf wedi penderfynu rhoi’r dewis yn ôl gyda’r Blaid Lafur, drwy ymddiswyddo fel Prif Ysgrifennydd a hynny yn syth. Dyma’r ymddiswyddiad hwnnw mewn ysgrifen, fel sydd yn ofynnol dan y Rheolau Sefydlog. Mater i’r Blaid Lafur, fy nghyd-Aelodau yng ngrŵp Llafur y Cynulliad a chynrychiolwyr y blaid yn ehangach, yw penderfynu pwy y dylid ei gyflwyno i’r Cynulliad hwn fel ein hymgeisydd am swydd y Prif Ysgrifennydd. Dyna pam, Llywydd, yr wyf yn ffurfiol, ac mewn ysgrifen, fel sydd yn ofynnol dan y Rheolau Sefydlog, yn cyflwyno fy ymddiswyddiad fel Prif Ysgrifennydd i chi.
This requires wider thought and consideration than an automatic renomination. That is in the interests of the Assembly and I have, from the beginning, sought to serve the interests of the Assembly. It is also in the wider interests of the wider Labour Party, which I have also sought to serve throughout my political career. It is with that in mind that I suggest that the Assembly keeps to normal practice by reconvening next Tuesday. As the largest party in the Assembly, the Labour Party has taken up the responsibility, even without a majority, to lead this Assembly to success, just as we, in a Labour Government, gave the opportunity of an Assembly to the people of Wales. Labour, in its decisions, will not let Wales down. Welsh Labour will not let this new Assembly down. Not now, nor in the future. I wish that I could say the same of other parties. I ask each of them to reflect on what they have done, on their responsibilities for the future and on their responsibilities to the National Assembly for Wales and to Wales. [Applause.]
yn Saesneg Mae hyn yn gofyn am fwy o feddwl ac ystyried nac ailenwebiad awtomatig. Dyna sydd orau i’r Cynulliad ac yr wyf, o’r dechrau, wedi ceisio gwasanaethu buddiannau’r Cynulliad. Mae hefyd er budd ehangach y Blaid Lafur ehangach, yr wyf hefyd wedi ceisio’i gwasanaethu drwy gydol fy ngyrfa wleidyddol. Gyda hynny mewn golwg yr awgrymaf fod y Cynulliad yn glynu at y drefn arferol drwy ailymgynnull ddydd Mawrth nesaf. Fel y blaid fwyaf yn y Cynulliad, mae’r Blaid Lafur wedi ymgymryd â’r cyfrifoldeb, hyd yn oed heb fwyafrif, i arwain y Cynulliad hwn i lwyddiant, yn union fel y rhoesom ni, mewn Llywodraeth Lafur, gyfle i bobl Cymru gael Cynulliad. Ni wnaiff Llafur, yn ei phenderfyniadau, adael Cymru i lawr. Ni wnaiff y Blaid Lafur Gymreig adael y Cynulliad newydd hwn i lawr. Nid yn awr, nac yn y dyfodol. Hoffwn pe gallwn ddweud yr un fath am bleidiau eraill. Gofynnaf i bob un ohonynt ystyried yr hyn y maent wedi’i wneud, eu cyfrifoldebau i’r dyfodol a’u cyfrifoldebau i Gynulliad Cenedlaethol Cymru ac i Gymru. [Cymeradwyaeth.]
Dafydd Elis-Thomas The Presiding Officer spoken in English p. 32
Dafydd Elis-Thomas Y Llywydd siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 32
I have no indication from the proposers of the motion that they intend to withdraw it. I therefore call for a vote.
Nid oes gennyf unrhyw arwydd gan gynigwyr y cynnig eu bod yn bwriadu ei dynnu’n ôl. Galwaf felly am bleidlais.
Point of order. Is this vote on the motion? The office of the First Secretary has just been vacated. For heaven’s sake, this is enough.
Pwynt o drefn. A yw’r bleidlais hon ar y cynnig? Mae swydd y Prif Ysgrifennydd newydd fynd yn wag. Er mwyn popeth, dyna ddigon.
Dafydd Elis-Thomas The Presiding Officer spoken in English p. 32
Dafydd Elis-Thomas Y Llywydd siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 32
Order. I have business to transact and I will do so orderly. We now move to a vote.
Trefn. Mae gennyf fusnes i’w gynnal ac fe wnaf hynny’n drefnus. Symudwn at bleidlais yn awr.
Point of order. I raise this under Standing Order No. 2.9. We do not have a First Secretary.
Pwynt o drefn. Codaf hwn dan Reol Sefydlog Rhif 2.9. Nid oes gennym Brif Ysgrifennydd.
Dafydd Elis-Thomas The Presiding Officer spoken in English p. 32
Dafydd Elis-Thomas Y Llywydd siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 32
The motion has not been withdrawn. We must therefore move to a vote.
Nid yw’r cynnig wedi’i dynnu’n ôl. Rhaid inni felly symud i bleidlais.
DerbyniwydAdopted O blaidFor 31 YmatalAbstain 1 Yn erbynAgainst 27
Derbyniwyd y cynnig.
Motion adopted.
Sut y pleidleisiodd yr AelodauHow Members voted
O blaidFor (31)
- Mick Bates
- Peter Black
- Nick Bourne
- Alun Cairns
- Cynog Dafis
- David Davies
- Geraint Davies
- Glyn Davies
- Janet Davies
- Jocelyn Davies
- Michael German
- William Graham
- Brian Hancock
- Christine Humphreys
- Pauline Jarman
- Elin Jones
- Gareth Jones
- Helen Mary Jones
- Ieuan Wyn Jones
- David Lloyd
- David Melding
- Jonathan Morgan
- Jenny Randerson
- Rod Richards
- Peter Rogers
- Janet Ryder
- Owen John Thomas
- Rhodri Glyn Thomas
- Dafydd Wigley
- Kirsty Williams
- Phil Williams
YmatalAbstain (1)
- Alison Halford
Yn erbynAgainst (27)
- Lorraine Barrett
- Rosemary Butler
- Christine Chapman
- Jane Davidson
- Andrew Davies
- Ron Davies
- Richard Edwards
- Sue Essex
- Val Feld
- Brian Gibbons
- Janice Gregory
- John Griffiths
- Christine Gwyther
- Edwina Hart
- Jane Hutt
- Ann Jones
- Carwyn Jones
- Peter Law
- Huw Lewis
- John Marek
- Alun Michael
- Tom Middlehurst
- Rhodri Morgan
- Lynne Neagle
- Alun Pugh
- Karen Sinclair
- Gwenda Thomas
Cynnig Trefniadol
Procedural Motion
Dafydd Elis-Thomas Y Llywydd siaradwyd yn Gymraeg ac yn Saesneg t. 33
Dafydd Elis-Thomas The Presiding Officer spoken in Welsh and English p. 33
Gofynnaf am gynnig trefniadol o dan Reol Sefydlog Rhif 6.16 i’r Cynulliad ohirio’r drafodaeth am awr er mwyn rhoi cyfle inni drafod y sefyllfa hon ymhellach.
in Welsh I ask for a procedural motion under Standing Order No. 6.16 for the Assembly to adjourn proceedings for one hour in order that we have an opportunity to discuss this situation further.
I invite the Business Secretary to propose that procedural motion.
yn Saesneg Gwahoddaf y Trefnydd i gynnig y cynnig trefniadol hwnnw.
Andrew Davies The Business Secretary spoken in English p. 33
Andrew Davies Y Trefnydd siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 33
I propose that
Cynigiaf
Cynnig trefniadol Andrew Davies t. 34
Procedural motion Andrew Davies p. 34
DerbyniwydAdopted O blaidFor 55 YmatalAbstain 0 Yn erbynAgainst 0
Derbyniwyd y cynnig.
Motion adopted.
Sut y pleidleisiodd yr AelodauHow Members voted
O blaidFor (55)
- Lorraine Barrett
- Mick Bates
- Peter Black
- Nick Bourne
- Rosemary Butler
- Alun Cairns
- Cynog Dafis
- Jane Davidson
- Andrew Davies
- David Davies
- Geraint Davies
- Glyn Davies
- Janet Davies
- Jocelyn Davies
- Ron Davies
- Richard Edwards
- Sue Essex
- Val Feld
- Michael German
- William Graham
- Janice Gregory
- John Griffiths
- Christine Gwyther
- Brian Hancock
- Edwina Hart
- Christine Humphreys
- Jane Hutt
- Pauline Jarman
- Ann Jones
- Carwyn Jones
- Elin Jones
- Gareth Jones
- Helen Mary Jones
- Ieuan Wyn Jones
- Peter Law
- David Lloyd
- John Marek
- David Melding
- Alun Michael
- Tom Middlehurst
- Jonathan Morgan
- Rhodri Morgan
- Lynne Neagle
- Alun Pugh
- Jenny Randerson
- Rod Richards
- Peter Rogers
- Janet Ryder
- Karen Sinclair
- Gwenda Thomas
- Owen John Thomas
- Rhodri Glyn Thomas
- Dafydd Wigley
- Kirsty Williams
- Phil Williams
Gohiriwyd trafodaethau’r Cynulliad am 3.17 p.m.
The Assembly adjourned at 3.17 p.m.
Ailymgynullodd y Cynulliad am 4.19 p.m.
The Assembly reconvened at 4.19 p.m.
Datganiad ar Ymddiswyddiad y Prif Ysgrifennydd
Statement on the First Secretary’s Resignation
Dafydd Elis-Thomas Y Llywydd siaradwyd yn Gymraeg t. 35
Dafydd Elis-Thomas The Presiding Officer spoken in Welsh p. 35
Galwaf Gynulliad Cenedlaethol Cymru i drefn. Yr wyf wedi derbyn llythyr ymddiswyddiad gan y Prif Ysgrifennydd. Galwaf ar Andrew Davies, y Trefnydd, i adrodd yn ôl o gyfarfod y Cabinet.
I call the National Assembly for Wales to order. I have received a letter of resignation from the First Secretary. I call Andrew Davies, the Business Secretary, to report back from the Cabinet meeting.
Point of order. Do we have a Business Secretary?
Pwynt o drefn. A oes gennym Drefnydd?
Dafydd Elis-Thomas The Presiding Officer spoken in English p. 35
Dafydd Elis-Thomas Y Llywydd siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 35
Order. I have just called the Business Secretary to address the Assembly.
Trefn. Yr wyf newydd alw ar y Trefnydd i gyfarch y Cynulliad.
Andrew Davies The Business Secretary spoken in English p. 35
Andrew Davies Y Trefnydd siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 35
Under Standing Order No. 2.10, following the resignation of Alun Michael as First Secretary, the Assembly Cabinet met and unanimously elected Rhodri Morgan to chair its meetings and discharge the First Secretary’s responsibilities until the Assembly elects a new First Secretary.
Dan Reol Sefydlog Rhif 2.10, yn dilyn ymddiswyddiad Alun Michael fel Prif Ysgrifennydd, cyfarfu Cabinet y Cynulliad ac etholwyd Rhodri Morgan yn unfrydol i gadeirio’i gyfarfodydd a chyflawni cyfrifoldebau’r Prif Ysgrifennydd hyd nes ethola’r Cynulliad Brif Ysgrifennydd newydd.
Dafydd Elis-Thomas The Presiding Officer spoken in English p. 35
Dafydd Elis-Thomas Y Llywydd siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 35
I think that it would be appropriate, therefore, for me to call the Acting First Secretary to make a statement to the Assembly.
Yr wyf yn meddwl y byddai’n briodol, felly, i mi alw ar y Prif Ysgrifennydd Gweithredol i wneud datganiad i’r Cynulliad.
Datganiad gan y Prif Ysgrifennydd Gweithredol
Statement by the Acting First Secretary
Rhodri Morgan The Acting First Secretary spoken in English p. 35
Rhodri Morgan Y Prif Ysgrifennydd Gweithredol siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 35
I hope that this will be short and sweet. The Cabinet has decided to convene the Assembly for an extraordinary meeting at 9.30 a.m. tomorrow morning.
Gobeithiaf y bydd hyn yn fyr ac yn felys. Mae’r Cabinet wedi penderfynu galw’r Cynulliad ynghyd am gyfarfod arbennig am 9.30 bore yfory.
Dafydd Elis-Thomas The Presiding Officer spoken in English p. 35
Dafydd Elis-Thomas Y Llywydd siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 35
I take that to be a formal request to me, under Standing Order No. 6.2, to recall the Assembly at that time.
Yr wyf yn cymryd mai cais ffurfiol yw hwnnw i mi, dan Reol Sefydlog Rhif 6.2, alw’r Cynulliad yn ôl bryd hynny.
Point of order. What will the business be, if the Assembly is recalled tomorrow?
Pwynt o drefn. Beth fydd y busnes, os ailgynullir y Cynulliad yfory?
Rhodri Morgan The Acting First Secretary spoken in English p. 36
Rhodri Morgan Y Prif Ysgrifennydd Gweithredol siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 36
I am sorry if I did not make myself sufficiently clear on this point. It will be to consider the issue of how we fill the vacancy left by the resignation of the First Secretary. Are there any other clarifications required?
Mae’n ddrwg gennyf os nad eglurais fy hun yn ddigon clir ar y pwynt hwn. Y busnes fydd ystyried sut y llenwir y lle gwag a adawyd gan ymddiswyddiad y Prif Ysgrifennydd. Oes angen unrhyw eglurhad arall?
I presume that means a nomination for First Secretary?
Yr wyf yn cymryd fod hynny’n golygu enwebu Prif Ysgrifennydd?
Dafydd Elis-Thomas The Presiding Officer spoken in Welsh and English p. 36
Dafydd Elis-Thomas Y Llywydd siaradwyd yn Gymraeg ac yn Saesneg t. 36
It is for me as Presiding Officer to invite nominations for First Secretary. I will consider any views expressed to the Assembly, but it is for me, under Standing Order No. 2.2, to invite nominations. I have not decided to do so yet, but I will note the views expressed by the Assembly when we reconvene tomorrow.
yn Saesneg Mater i mi fel Llywydd yw gwahodd enwebiadau ar gyfer Prif Ysgrifennydd. Byddaf yn ystyried unrhyw sylwadau a fynegir i’r Cynulliad, ond mater i mi, dan Reol Sefydlog Rhif 2.2, yw gwahodd enwebiadau. Nid wyf wedi penderfynu gwneud hynny eto, ond nodaf y sylwadau a fynegir gan y Cynulliad pan ailymgynullwn yfory.
Dyna ddiwedd cyfarfod heddiw. Diolch yn fawr ichi am eich amynedd.
in Welsh That is the end of today’s session. Thank you for your patience.
Daeth y cyfarfod i ben am 4.23 p.m.
The session ended at 4.23 p.m.