Cynulliad Cenedlaethol CymruNational Assembly for Wales · Cyfarfod llawnPlenary sitting
Dydd Mawrth 20 Tachwedd 2001
Tuesday 20 November 2001
CynnwysContents
- 3Cynnig TrefniadolProcedural Motion 1 bleidlais1 vote
- 4Ethol i BwyllgorauElections to Committees 4 o bleidleisiau4 votes
- 7Ethol Pwyllgor Penderfyniadau CynllunioElection of a Planning Decision Committee 1 bleidlais1 vote
- 9Cwestiynau i Brif Weinidog CymruQuestions to the First Minister
- 9Gwneud Canabis yn Gyffur Categori CReducing Cannabis to a Category C Drug
- 11Cynnydd mewn Creu SwyddiProgress in Creation of Employment
- 15Rôl Is-bwyllgorau’r Cabinet wrth Ddatblygu PolisiRole of Cabinet Sub-committees in Policy Development
- 18Cydlynu Polisïau yng Nghanolbarth a Gorllewin CymruCo-ordination of Policies in Mid and West Wales
- 21Sicrhau Ystyriaeth o Anghenion Cymru gan Sefydliadau EwropeaiddEnsuring European Institutions Consider Wales’s Needs
- 22Trafodaethau rhwng Gweinidogion a Phartneriaid yn y Sector Cyhoeddus a’r Sector PreifatDialogue between Ministers and Private and Public Sector Partners
- 24Dod â Llywodraeth yn nes at Bobl CymruBringing Government closer to the People of Wales
- 26Gwella Delwedd Cymru DramorImproving Wales’s Image Abroad
- 27Cyfarfod ag Arweinwyr Cyngres yr Undebau Llafur CymruMeeting with TUC Wales Leaders
- 28Blaenoriaethau Deddfwriaeth SylfaenolPriorities for Primary Legislation
- 30Datganiad BusnesBusiness Statement
- 32Pwyntiau o DrefnPoints of Order
- 37Cynnig Cyfansawdd: Cymeradwyo GorchmynionComposite Motion: Approval of Orders 1 bleidlais1 vote
- 39DigartrefeddHomelessness 7 o bleidleisiau7 votes
- 74Dadl FerShort Debate
- 87Adroddiad Blynyddol y Pwyllgor SafonauThe Standards Committee’s Annual Report 1 bleidlais1 vote
PleidleisiauVotes
TrafodionProceedings
Cyfarfu’r Cynulliad am 2 p.m. gyda’r Llywydd yn y Gadair.
The Assembly met at 2 p.m. with the Presiding Officer in the Chair.
Cynnig Trefniadol
Procedural Motion
Andrew Davies The Minister for Assembly Business spoken in English p. 3
Andrew Davies Y Trefnydd siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 3
I propose that
Cynigiaf fod
Cynnig trefniadol Andrew Davies t. 3
Procedural motion Andrew Davies p. 3
DerbyniwydAdopted O blaidFor 32 YmatalAbstain 0 Yn erbynAgainst 0
Derbyniwyd y cynnig.
Motion carried.
Sut y pleidleisiodd yr AelodauHow Members voted
O blaidFor (32)
- Mick Bates
- Peter Black
- Nick Bourne
- Eleanor Burnham
- Rosemary Butler
- Alun Cairns
- Andrew Davies
- David Davies
- Geraint Davies
- Janet Davies
- Jocelyn Davies
- Delyth Evans
- William Graham
- Alison Halford
- Jane Hutt
- Elin Jones
- Helen Mary Jones
- Ieuan Wyn Jones
- Peter Law
- David Lloyd
- Val Lloyd
- David Melding
- Tom Middlehurst
- Jonathan Morgan
- Rhodri Morgan
- Alun Pugh
- Jenny Randerson
- Rod Richards
- Janet Ryder
- Owen John Thomas
- Rhodri Glyn Thomas
- Phil Williams
Ethol i Bwyllgorau
Elections to Committees
Andrew Davies The Minister for Assembly Business spoken in English p. 4
Andrew Davies Y Trefnydd siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 4
I propose that
Cynigiaf fod
Andrew Davies The Minister for Assembly Business (continued) spoken in English p. 4
Andrew Davies Y Trefnydd (parhad) siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 4
I propose that
Cynigiaf fod
Andrew Davies The Minister for Assembly Business (continued) spoken in English p. 4
Andrew Davies Y Trefnydd (parhad) siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 4
I propose that
Cynigiaf fod
Andrew Davies The Minister for Assembly Business (continued) spoken in English p. 4
Andrew Davies Y Trefnydd (parhad) siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 4
I propose that
Cynigiaf fod
Dafydd Elis-Thomas The Presiding Officer spoken in English p. 4
Dafydd Elis-Thomas Y Llywydd siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 4
We will now vote on the first motion.
Pleidleisiwn yn awr ar y cynnig cyntaf.
Cynnig NNDM844 Andrew Davies t. 4
Motion NNDM844 Andrew Davies p. 4
DerbyniwydAdopted O blaidFor 36 YmatalAbstain 0 Yn erbynAgainst 0
Derbyniwyd y cynnig.
Motion carried.
Sut y pleidleisiodd yr AelodauHow Members voted
O blaidFor (36)
- Mick Bates
- Peter Black
- Nick Bourne
- Eleanor Burnham
- Rosemary Butler
- Alun Cairns
- Andrew Davies
- David Davies
- Janet Davies
- Jocelyn Davies
- Ron Davies
- Sue Essex
- Delyth Evans
- Michael German
- William Graham
- Alison Halford
- Edwina Hart
- Jane Hutt
- Pauline Jarman
- Elin Jones
- Helen Mary Jones
- Ieuan Wyn Jones
- Peter Law
- David Lloyd
- Val Lloyd
- David Melding
- Tom Middlehurst
- Jonathan Morgan
- Rhodri Morgan
- Alun Pugh
- Jenny Randerson
- Rod Richards
- Janet Ryder
- Rhodri Glyn Thomas
- Dafydd Wigley
- Phil Williams
Dafydd Elis-Thomas The Presiding Officer spoken in English p. 5
Dafydd Elis-Thomas Y Llywydd siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 5
We will now vote on the second motion.
Pleidleisiwn yn awr ar yr ail gynnig.
Cynnig NNDM843 Andrew Davies t. 5
Motion NNDM843 Andrew Davies p. 5
DerbyniwydAdopted O blaidFor 37 YmatalAbstain 1 Yn erbynAgainst 0
Derbyniwyd y cynnig.
Motion carried.
Sut y pleidleisiodd yr AelodauHow Members voted
O blaidFor (37)
- Mick Bates
- Peter Black
- Nick Bourne
- Eleanor Burnham
- Rosemary Butler
- Alun Cairns
- Andrew Davies
- David Davies
- Geraint Davies
- Janet Davies
- Jocelyn Davies
- Ron Davies
- Sue Essex
- Delyth Evans
- Michael German
- William Graham
- Alison Halford
- Edwina Hart
- Jane Hutt
- Pauline Jarman
- Elin Jones
- Ieuan Wyn Jones
- Peter Law
- David Lloyd
- Val Lloyd
- David Melding
- Tom Middlehurst
- Jonathan Morgan
- Rhodri Morgan
- Alun Pugh
- Jenny Randerson
- Rod Richards
- Janet Ryder
- Owen John Thomas
- Rhodri Glyn Thomas
- Dafydd Wigley
- Phil Williams
YmatalAbstain (1)
- Helen Mary Jones
Dafydd Elis-Thomas The Presiding Officer spoken in English p. 6
Dafydd Elis-Thomas Y Llywydd siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 6
We will now vote on the third motion.
Pleidleisiwn yn awr ar y trydydd cynnig.
Cynnig NNDM842 Andrew Davies t. 6
Motion NNDM842 Andrew Davies p. 6
DerbyniwydAdopted O blaidFor 35 YmatalAbstain 0 Yn erbynAgainst 0
Derbyniwyd y cynnig.
Motion carried.
Sut y pleidleisiodd yr AelodauHow Members voted
O blaidFor (35)
- Mick Bates
- Peter Black
- Nick Bourne
- Rosemary Butler
- Alun Cairns
- Andrew Davies
- David Davies
- Geraint Davies
- Janet Davies
- Jocelyn Davies
- Ron Davies
- Sue Essex
- Delyth Evans
- Michael German
- William Graham
- Alison Halford
- Edwina Hart
- Jane Hutt
- Pauline Jarman
- Elin Jones
- Peter Law
- David Lloyd
- Val Lloyd
- David Melding
- Tom Middlehurst
- Jonathan Morgan
- Rhodri Morgan
- Alun Pugh
- Jenny Randerson
- Rod Richards
- Janet Ryder
- Karen Sinclair
- Owen John Thomas
- Rhodri Glyn Thomas
- Dafydd Wigley
Dafydd Elis-Thomas The Presiding Officer spoken in English p. 7
Dafydd Elis-Thomas Y Llywydd siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 7
We will now vote on the fourth motion.
Pleidleisiwn yn awr ar y pedwerydd cynnig.
Cynnig NNDM841 Andrew Davies t. 7
Motion NNDM841 Andrew Davies p. 7
DerbyniwydAdopted O blaidFor 35 YmatalAbstain 0 Yn erbynAgainst 0
Derbyniwyd y cynnig.
Motion carried.
Sut y pleidleisiodd yr AelodauHow Members voted
O blaidFor (35)
- Mick Bates
- Peter Black
- Nick Bourne
- Eleanor Burnham
- Rosemary Butler
- Alun Cairns
- Andrew Davies
- David Davies
- Janet Davies
- Jocelyn Davies
- Ron Davies
- Sue Essex
- Delyth Evans
- Michael German
- William Graham
- Alison Halford
- Edwina Hart
- Jane Hutt
- Pauline Jarman
- Elin Jones
- Peter Law
- David Lloyd
- Val Lloyd
- David Melding
- Tom Middlehurst
- Jonathan Morgan
- Alun Pugh
- Jenny Randerson
- Rod Richards
- Janet Ryder
- Karen Sinclair
- Owen John Thomas
- Rhodri Glyn Thomas
- Dafydd Wigley
- Phil Williams
Ethol Pwyllgor Penderfyniadau Cynllunio
Election of a Planning Decision Committee
Andrew Davies The Minister for Assembly Business spoken in English p. 7
Andrew Davies Y Trefnydd siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 7
I propose
Cynigiaf
Andrew Davies The Minister for Assembly Business (continued) spoken in English p. 8
Andrew Davies Y Trefnydd (parhad) siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 8
Schedule
Atodlen
Called-in application by Mr D.J. and Mrs M.D. Price for proposed erection of agricultural workers dwelling at Ddyfadfa Isaf, Gwynfe, Llangadog (Assembly function—section 77 of the Town and Country Planning Act 1990).
Galw i mewn cais gan Mr D.J. a Mrs M.D. Price ar gyfer codi annedd i weithwyr amaethyddol yn Nyfadfa Isaf, Gwynfe, Llangadog (Swyddogaeth y Cynulliad—adran 77 Deddf Cynllunio Gwlad a Thref 1990).
Called-in application and section 174 appeal by Miss S. Williams and Mr O. Isaac for proposed renovation of former farmhouse to be used as a dwelling at Thornhill, Llandyfan, Ammanford (Assembly functions—sections 77 and 174 of the Town and Country Planning Act 1990).
Galw i mewn cais ac apêl adran 174 gan Miss S Williams a Mr O Isaac i adnewyddu hen ffermdy i’w droi’n annedd yn Thornhill, Landyfan, Rhydaman (Swyddogaeth y Cynulliad—adran 77 ac 174 Deddf Cynllunio Gwlad a Thref 1990).
Planning appeal by Carillion Development for proposed high density residential apartment development of 174 units in three blocks ranging from 4 to 15 storeys (including undercroft parking) at Schooner Way, Atlantic Wharf, Cardiff. (Assembly function—section 78 of the Town and Country Planning Act 1990). (NDM837)
Apêl cynllunio gan Carillion Development i ddatblygu 174 o unedau o fflatiau preswyl dwysedd uchel mewn tri bloc yn amrywio o 4-15 llawr (gan gynnwys parcio tanddaearol) yn Schooner Way, Glanfa’r Iwerydd, Caerdydd (Swyddogaeth y Cynulliad—adran 78 Deddf Cynllunio Gwlad a Thref 1990). (NDM837)
DerbyniwydAdopted O blaidFor 38 YmatalAbstain 0 Yn erbynAgainst 0
Derbyniwyd y cynnig.
Motion carried.
Sut y pleidleisiodd yr AelodauHow Members voted
O blaidFor (38)
- Mick Bates
- Peter Black
- Nick Bourne
- Eleanor Burnham
- Rosemary Butler
- Alun Cairns
- Christine Chapman
- Andrew Davies
- David Davies
- Glyn Davies
- Jocelyn Davies
- Ron Davies
- Sue Essex
- Delyth Evans
- Michael German
- William Graham
- Alison Halford
- Edwina Hart
- Jane Hutt
- Pauline Jarman
- Elin Jones
- Ieuan Wyn Jones
- Peter Law
- David Lloyd
- Val Lloyd
- David Melding
- Tom Middlehurst
- Jonathan Morgan
- Rhodri Morgan
- Alun Pugh
- Jenny Randerson
- Rod Richards
- Janet Ryder
- Karen Sinclair
- Owen John Thomas
- Rhodri Glyn Thomas
- Dafydd Wigley
- Phil Williams
Cwestiynau i Brif Weinidog Cymru
Questions to the First Minister
Dafydd Elis-Thomas Y Llywydd siaradwyd yn Gymraeg t. 9
Dafydd Elis-Thomas The Presiding Officer spoken in Welsh p. 9
Tynnwyd cwestiwn 1 (OAQ14036) yn ôl, felly dechreuwn gyda chwestiwn 2.
Question 1 (OAQ14036) has been withdrawn, therefore we will begin with question 2.
Gwneud Canabis yn Gyffur Categori C
Reducing Cannabis to a Category C Drug
What discussions has the First Minister had with the UK Government and the other devolved bodies over the decision to reduce cannabis to a category C drug? (OAQ14010)
Pa drafodaethau y mae Prif Weinidog Cymru wedi’u cael â llywodraeth y DU a’r cyrff datganoledig eraill ynghylch y penderfyniad i wneud canabis yn gyffur categori C? (OAQ14010)
Rhodri Morgan The First Minister spoken in English p. 9
Rhodri Morgan Prif Weinidog Cymru siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 9
None. This issue is the responsibility of the Secretary of State for the Home Department , and is not devolved to the Assembly. I have not discussed it with the Home Secretary, nor has he discussed it with me, and I have not had discussions of this kind with my counterparts in Scotland and Northern Ireland. There is a statutory requirement to consult with the Advisory Council on the Misuse of Drugs before making any changes in drug classifications, and there is Welsh representation on that advisory committee.
Dim. Cyfrifoldeb yr Ysgrifennydd Gwladol yr Adran Gartref ydyw, ac nid yw wedi ei ddatganoli i’r Cynulliad. Nid wyf wedi trafod hyn gyda’r Ysgrifennydd Cartref, ac nid yw ef wedi trafod hyn gyda mi, ac nid wyf wedi cael trafodaethau o’r math hwn gyda’r Prif Weinidogion yn yr Alban a Gogledd Iwerddon. Mae gofyniad statudol i ymgynghori â’r Cyngor Ymgynghorol ar Gamddefnyddio Cyffuriau cyn gwneud unrhyw newidiadau mewn categorïau cyffuriau, ac mae cynrychiolaeth o Gymru ar y pwyllgor ymgynghorol hwnnw.
Do you agree that this move by the Home Secretary is welcome on several fronts? In 1998, 130,000 people were arrested for drugs related offences, 70 per cent of whom were in possession of small amounts of cannabis. Thus in one year 65,000 people achieved a criminal record that will reduce their chances of securing meaningful employment. Will the First Minister welcome the Home Secretary’s decision to remove this unfair burden from the employable population in Wales?
A gytunwch fod y weithred hon gan yr Ysgrifennydd Cartref i’w chroesawu am sawl rheswm? Yn 1998, arestiwyd 130,000 o bobl am droseddau yn gysylltiedig â chyffuriau a symiau bach o ganabis oedd ym meddiant 70 y cant o’r rhain. Felly mewn un flwyddyn cafodd 65,000 o bobl gofnod troseddol a fydd yn lleihau eu cyfle i sicrhau swyddi gwerth chweil. A fydd Prif Weinidog Cymru yn croesawu penderfyniad yr Ysgrifennydd Cartref i godi’r baich annheg hwn oddi ar boblogaeth gyflogadwy Cymru?
Rhodri Morgan The First Minister spoken in English p. 10
Rhodri Morgan Prif Weinidog Cymru siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 10
I am grateful for your comments. I have no view on this issue. However, I believe that your interpretation is correct, namely that there is no power of arrest for possession of a class C drug, although there is power of arrest for supply and trafficking. Therefore, the Home Secretary has not decriminalised, and has certainly not legalised, cannabis, but he has lifted a huge burden from the police in terms of the time that may be wasted on these small possession charges. These charges will no longer be operated—if I understand police legal operations correctly—if cannabis is reclassified as a class C drug. I think that the Home Secretary also made a reference to using cannabis for medicinal purposes, which I welcome. It should be available for those who find it a comfort when experiencing extreme pain due to long-standing degenerative conditions. There are many people who have such conditions who find that cannabis has a beneficial pain-relieving effect not seen with any other drug.
Yr wyf yn ddiolchgar am eich sylwadau. Nid oes gennyf farn ar y mater hwn. Fodd bynnag, credaf fod eich dehongliad yn gywir, sef nad oes modd arestio rhywun am fod cyffur dosbarth C yn ei feddiant, er bod modd arestio rhywun am gyflenwi a masnachu cyffur dosbarth C. O ganlyniad, nid yw’r Ysgrifennydd Cartref wedi anghyfreithloni canabis, ac yn sicr nid yw wedi ei gyfreithloni, ond mae wedi codi baich mawr oddi ar yr heddlu o ran yr amser y gellir ei wastraffu ar achosion o gyhuddo pobl sydd â symiau bach o ganabis yn eu meddiant. Ni chaiff y cyhuddiadau hyn eu gweithredu bellach—os wyf yn deall camau cyfreithiol yr heddlu yn gywir—os yw canabis yn cael ei ailddosbarthu fel cyffur dosbarth C. Credaf fod yr Ysgrifennydd Cartref hefyd wedi cyfeirio at ddefnyddio canabis ar gyfer dibenion meddygol, ac yr wyf yn croesawu hynny. Dylai fod ar gael i’r rheini sy’n cael cysur ohono pan y bônt yn dioddef poen eithafol o ganlyniad i gyflyrau dirywiol hirsefydlog. Mae nifer o bobl sydd â chyflyrau o’r fath yn dweud bod gan ganabis effaith lesol wrth leddfu poen nad yw’n bosibl ei chael gydag unrhyw gyffur arall.
Do you agree that reclassifying cannabis does nothing to break the link between drug pushers and buyers? Will you make representations to the UK Government to ask it to explore the possibility of licensed premises?
A gytunwch nad yw ailddosbarthu canabis yn gwneud dim i dorri’r cyswllt rhwng y rhai sy’n gwerthu cyffuriau a’r rhai sy’n eu prynu? A wnewch chi sylwadau i Lywodraeth y DU i ofyn iddi ymchwilio i’r posibilrwydd o eiddo trwyddedig?
Rhodri Morgan The First Minister spoken in English p. 11
Rhodri Morgan Prif Weinidog Cymru siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 11
I have no views on that because I do not have expertise in this matter; nor is the Assembly obliged to take a position on this. However, if you want to make representations to me that we should take a view, those views could be expressed via the Welsh representative on the Advisory Council on the Misuse of Drugs.
Nid oes gennyf farn ar hynny am nad oes gennyf arbenigedd yn y mater hwn; ac nid yw’n ofynnol i’r Cynulliad nodi ei safbwynt ar hyn. Fodd bynnag, os ydych am gyflwyno sylwadau imi yn dweud y dylem nodi safbwynt, gallai’r sylwadau hynny gael eu mynegi drwy gynrychiolydd Cymru ar y Cyngor Ymgynghori ar Gamddefnyddio Cyffuriau.
The Government appears to be rushing headlong into the legalisation of cannabis without a full debate on its possible dangers. Is that what New Labour meant when it gave its commitment to joint working?
Ymddengys fod y Llywodraeth yn rhuthro i gyfreithloni canabis heb drafodaeth lawn ar y peryglon posibl o wneud hynny. Ai dyna beth oedd gan Lafur Newydd mewn golwg pan wnaeth ymrwymo i joint working?
Rhodri Morgan The First Minister spoken in English p. 11
Rhodri Morgan Prif Weinidog Cymru siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 11
That was not bad for early on a Tuesday afternoon, David. However, you know that there were considerable differences in your party a year ago when Ann Widdecombe said that she wanted to have a totally drug-free Tory party. She then discovered that that would have removed half the front bench, who promptly admitted to having smoked or inhaled cannabis while they were in university, public school or wherever. No party should claim a monopoly on the moral high ground on such issues; this has more to do with whether police time should be wasted on arresting people for the possession of small amounts of cannabis for personal use rather than being used to deal with the supply and trafficking of drugs. I will leave it at that.
Yr oedd hynny’n eithaf da a hithau’n gynnar ar brynhawn dydd Mawrth, David. Fodd bynnag, gwyddoch y bu cryn wahaniaeth barn o fewn eich plaid flwyddyn yn ôl pan ddywedodd Ann Widdecombe ei bod am gael plaid Dorïaidd a oedd yn gwbl rydd o gyffuriau. Yna darganfu y byddai hynny wedi cael gwared ar hanner y fainc flaen, a gyfaddefodd yn fuan wedi hynny eu bod wedi ysmygu neu anadlu mwg canabis tra yr oeddent yn y brifysgol, ysgol breifat neu ble bynnag. Ni ddylai unrhyw blaid hawlio mai hwy sy’n iawn o ran materion o’r fath; mae a wnelo hyn yn fwy â’r cwestiwn a ddylai amser yr heddlu gael ei wastraffu ar arestio pobl â symiau bach o ganabis yn eu meddiant ar gyfer defnydd personol yn hytrach na defnyddio’r amser hwnnw i ddelio â phobl sy’n cyflenwi a masnachu cyffuriau. Ni ddywedaf fwy am hyn.
Cynnydd mewn Creu Swyddi
Progress in Creation of Employment
Pa gamau a gymerwyd i wireddu’r ymrwymiadau yng nghynlluniau strategol y Cynulliad i greu swyddi? (OAQ14011)
What progress has been made towards fulfilling the commitments to job creation contained in the Assembly’s strategic plans? (OAQ14011)
Rhodri Morgan Prif Weinidog Cymru siaradwyd yn Gymraeg t. 12
Rhodri Morgan The First Minister spoken in Welsh p. 12
Yr ydym wedi ymrwymo i greu mwy o swyddi sgiliau uchel i bobl Cymru. Yr ydym hefyd dros dri chwarter y ffordd tuag at gyflawni’r targed o greu 40,000 o swyddi ychwanegol, sef y targed a bennwyd yn ‘Gwellcymru.com’. Byddwn yn parhau i weithio ar greu amgylchedd lle y gall busnesau modern ffynnu.
We have committed ourselves to creating more high-skilled jobs for the people of Wales. We are also over three-quarters of the way towards meeting the target of creating 40,000 additional jobs, which is the target stipulated in ‘Betterwales.com’. We will continue to work towards creating an environment where modern businesses can flourish.
Nid yw creu swyddi yng nghyffiniau Caerdydd a’r de ddwyrain o unrhyw werth i gymunedau yn fy etholaeth i, Ceredigion, ac ond o werth i bobl Ceredigion os ydynt yn codi pac, mynd ar feic a symud i Gaerdydd. A ydych yn cytuno bod angen targedau rhanbarthol ar gyfer creu swyddi er mwyn gwasgaru swyddi a chyfoeth ar hyd a lled Cymru?
Creating jobs in the Cardiff area and the south-east is of no value to the communities in my constituency, Ceredigion, and is only of value to the people of Ceredigion if they up sticks, get on their bikes and move to Cardiff. Do you agree that regional targets for job creation are needed to distribute jobs and wealth throughout Wales?
Rhodri Morgan Prif Weinidog Cymru siaradwyd yn Gymraeg t. 12
Rhodri Morgan The First Minister spoken in Welsh p. 12
Ydw. Holltir y targed cynnydd o 40,000 yng nghyfanswm o swyddi sydd ar gael yng Nghymru i darged o 24,000 o swyddi ychwanegol yn ardal Amcan 1. Nid yw’r hollti’n mynd ymhellach na hynny. Fodd bynnag, yr hyn sydd yn bwysig—a disgwyliais i Elin gydnabod hyn o leiaf—yw’r ffaith bod yr ystadegau diweddaraf yn dangos cynnydd o dros 31,000 yn y cyfanswm o swyddi oedd ar gael yng Nghymru rhwng 1998-99 a 2000-01. Dylem hefyd groesawu’r ffaith bod llai na 50,000 o bobl yn ddi-waith yng Nghymru ar hyn o bryd—y lefel isaf ers Mehefin 1975.
Yes. The target increase of 40,000 in the total jobs available in Wales is broken down into a target of 24,000 additional jobs in the Objective 1 area. The breakdown does not go further than that. However, what is important—and I expected Elin to acknowledge this at least—is the fact that the latest statistics show an increase of over 31,000 in the total jobs available in Wales between 1998-99 and 2000-01. We should also welcome the fact that fewer than 50,000 people are unemployed in Wales at present—the lowest level since June 1975.
What steps do you propose to take to attract replacement employment opportunities to Swansea following yesterday’s announcement of manufacturing job losses?
Pa gamau yr ydych yn bwriadu eu cymryd i ddenu cyfleoedd gwaith newydd i Abertawe yn dilyn y cyhoeddiad ddoe am ddiswyddiadau ym maes gweithgynhyrchu?
Rhodri Morgan The First Minister spoken in English p. 12
Rhodri Morgan Prif Weinidog Cymru siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 12
The Alcoa announcement was unexpected for the unions as well as the workforce, the local community and ourselves. It involves the loss of just under 40 jobs in Alcoa’s Waunarlwydd factory, which is in Andrew Davies’s constituency, and of 180 jobs in your constituency, Presiding Officer, in Dolgarrog. The effect will be much greater in Dolgarrog because the job losses are greater there and they are the only process jobs of that kind in the Conwy valley. The impact will be huge. The loss of 200 jobs was also announced lunchtime today as a result of the closure of the ACCO stapler factory in Llangeinor, in Janice Gregory’s constituency, which used to be known as the Rexel or Ofrex factory. The factory is in the Garw valley. Sometimes these job losses are an indication of problems in the aerospace industry. We saw that last week with C.F. Taylor Interiors Limited in Llanelli, and also with Dolgarrog, which supplies aluminium sheets for air frame bodies and wings. The third aerospace cut back in recent weeks was at the Trefn engineering plant in Wrexham, where some 140 jobs have been lost. All have been attributed to the downturn in aerospace sales caused by the atrocity on 11 September in New York.
Yr oedd cyhoeddiad Alcoa yn un annisgwyl i’r undebau yn ogystal â’r gweithlu, y gymuned leol a ninnau. Mae’n cynnwys colli cwta 40 o swyddi yn ffatri Alcoa yn Waunarlwydd, yn etholaeth Andrew Davies, a 180 o swyddi yn eich etholaeth chi, Lywydd, yn Nolgarrog. Bydd yr effaith yn llawer mwy yn Nolgarrog am fod mwy o swyddi yn cael eu colli yno a’r rheini yw’r unig swyddi prosesu o’r fath yn nyffryn Conwy. Bydd yr effaith yn enfawr. Yn ogystal, cyhoeddwyd y caiff 200 o swyddi eu colli amser cinio heddiw o ganlyniad i’r penderfyniad i gau ffatri styffylwyr ACCO yn Llangeinwyr, yn etholaeth Janice Gregory, a adwaenid fel y ffatri Rexel neu Ofrex. Mae’r ffatri yng nghwm Garw. Weithiau mae’r diswyddiadau hyn yn arwydd o broblemau yn y diwydiant awyrofod. Gwelsom hynny yr wythnos diwethaf yn achos C.F. Taylor Interiors Limited yn Llanelli, a hefyd yn achos Dolgarrog, sy’n cyflenwi dalennau alwminiwm ar gyfer cyrff ac adenydd awyrennau. Cafwyd y trydydd achos o ddiswyddiadau yn y sector awyrofod yn ddiweddar yng ngwaith peirianneg Trefn yn Wrecsam, lle mae tua 140 o swyddi wedi eu colli. Maent oll wedi eu priodoli i’r dirywiad mewn gwerthiannau awyrofod a achoswyd gan yr erchyllter ar 11 Medi yn Efrog Newydd.
Onid yw colli swyddi yn Alcoa yn Nolgarrog yn profi nad oes gan y Llywodraeth strategaeth economaidd effeithiol i Gymru? Nid yw Llywodraeth San Steffan yn pryderu am gyflwr economaidd ein cenedl neu byddai wedi cyhoeddi cynllun rhanbarthol economaidd i ddiwallu anghenion Cymru erbyn hyn. Pryd y byddwch yn pwyso ar y Llywodraeth i sicrhau ei bod yn llunio polisi economaidd rhanbarthol i Gymru cyn iddi fod yn rhy hwyr? Mae’n debyg ei bod eisoes yn rhy hwyr i Ddolgarrog a Waunarlwydd.
Do the job losses in Alcoa in Dolgarrog not prove that the Government does not have an effective economic strategy for Wales? The Westminster Government does not care about the economic state of our nation or it would have published a regional economic plan to meet the needs of Wales by now. When will you put pressure on the Government to ensure that it draws up a regional economic policy for Wales before it is too late? It seems that it is already too late for Dolgarrog and Waunarlwydd.
Rhodri Morgan Prif Weinidog Cymru siaradwyd yn Gymraeg t. 13
Rhodri Morgan The First Minister spoken in Welsh p. 13
Mae hynny dros ben llestri. Efallai, Gareth, nad oeddech wedi clywed yr hyn a ddywedais wrth Elin Jones yn gynharach, sef y dylai pawb yng Nghymru ymfalchïo a chroesawu’r ffaith bod lefel diweithdra yn llai na 50,000 o bobl: y lefel isaf ers 26 mlynedd. Er ein bod yn cydymdeimlo â’r bobl, y cymunedau a’r gweithlu yn Nolgarrog, Waunarlwydd a Llangeinwyr, mae’n rhaid ystyried lefel y diweithdra a nifer y swyddi sydd ar gael yng Nghymru. Er enghraifft, yr oedd 20 tudalen o swyddi newydd yn y Daily Post ddydd Iau diwethaf. Dyna’r mwyaf y mae erioed wedi eu hysbysebu ar unrhyw adeg. Felly, nid yw’r darlun o’r economi yr ydych yn ei lunio, Gareth, yn realiti.
That is over the top. Perhaps, Gareth, you did not hear what I said to Elin Jones earlier, namely that everyone in Wales should take pride in and welcome the fact that unemployment has dipped below 50,000: the lowest level for 26 years. While we sympathise with the people, communities and workforce in Dolgarrog, Waunarlwydd and Llangeinor, the unemployment level and the number of jobs available in Wales must be taken into account. For example, there were 20 pages of new jobs in the Daily Post last Thursday. That is the most it has ever advertised at any one time. Therefore, the picture you paint of the economy, Gareth, is not the reality.
Some of my constituents work at Dolgarrog. They will find well paid alternative employment difficult to secure. Will you assure me that the Welsh Development Agency will do everything in its power to redevelop that large site, as it has excellent communications links as well as a first-class workforce? We cannot afford to wait years.
Mae rhai o’m hetholwyr yn gweithio yn Nolgarrog. Bydd yn anodd iddynt sicrhau cyflogaeth arall sy’n talu’n dda. A allwch fy sicrhau y bydd Awdurdod Datblygu Cymru yn gwneud popeth o fewn ei allu i ail-ddatblygu’r safle mawr hwnnw, gan fod ganddo gysylltiadau ardderchog yn ogystal â gweithlu o’r radd flaenaf? Ni allwn fforddio aros am flynyddoedd.
Rhodri Morgan The First Minister spoken in English p. 14
Rhodri Morgan Prif Weinidog Cymru siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 14
Yes. I spoke to Graham Hawker, the chief executive of the WDA, a few hours ago about how quickly we could move into the Dolgarrog site. Alcoa faces a difficult management process, because it wants the works to stay open until June or July next year to complete orders. It is a specialised works with certain skills that are difficult to replicate elsewhere. Those orders must be completed; therefore, it must retain its workforce to do that. However, in the meantime, the workforce will be looking for other jobs. It will not be an easy task for everybody to fulfil. Assuming that Alcoa manages to reach agreement on redundancy and so on, the next question will be what future use can be made of that site. That is crucial because, sadly, there are no other highly-paid process jobs of substance in the manufacturing industry within a 30 or 40 mile radius of Dolgarrog.
Gallaf. Siaradais â Graham Hawker, prif weithredwr Awdurdod Datblygu Cymru, ychydig oriau yn ôl ynghylch pa mor gyflym y gallem symud i mewn i safle Dolgarrog. Mae Alcoa yn wynebu proses reoli anodd, gan ei fod am i’r gwaith aros ar agor tan Fehefin neu Orffennaf y flwyddyn nesaf er mwyn cwblhau archebion. Mae’n waith arbenigol gyda rhai sgiliau anodd eu dyblygu mewn mannau eraill. Rhaid i’r archebion hynny gael eu cwblhau; felly, rhaid iddo gadw ei weithlu er mwyn gwneud hynny. Fodd bynnag, yn y cyfamser bydd y gweithlu yn chwilio am swyddi eraill. Ni fydd yn dasg hawdd i bawb ei chyflawni. Gan gymryd y bydd Alcoa yn llwyddo i ddod i gytundeb ar ddiswyddo staff ac ati, y cwestiwn nesaf fydd pa ddefnydd y gellir ei wneud o’r safle yn y dyfodol. Mae hynny’n hanfodol oherwydd, yn anffodus, nid oes swyddi prosesu sy’n talu’n dda o sylwedd yn y diwydiant gweithgynhyrchu o fewn 30 neu 40 milltir i Ddolgarrog.
I know the First Minister regrets the announcement yesterday of the further loss of manufacturing jobs. Does he also regret that we entered this year with a meltdown in manufacturing and that we seem to be entering the close of this year with further massive manufacturing redundancies? Does the First Minister accept that the economic policies followed by the Westminster Government, supported by the National Assembly for Wales, are leading to the demise of the manufacturing industry in Wales, which forms a significant part of the economy? Does he further accept that a supplementary business rate on such manufacturers will drive down jobs still further? Does he also regret the climate change tax, which will be introduced in April—
Gwn fod Prif Weinidog Cymru yn gresynu at y cyhoeddiad ddoe o’r swyddi gweithgynhyrchu pellach sydd i’w colli. A yw hefyd yn gresynu at y ffaith ein bod wedi dechrau’r flwyddyn hon gyda chwalfa mewn gweithgynhyrchu ac yr ymddengys y bydd rhagor o ddiswyddiadau gweithgynhyrchu mawr iawn wrth iddi ddod i ben? A yw Prif Weinidog Cymru yn derbyn bod y polisïau economaidd a ddilynwyd gan Lywodraeth San Steffan, wedi eu cefnogi gan Gynulliad Cenedlaethol Cymru, yn arwain at ddirywiad y diwydiant gweithgynhyrchu yng Nghymru, sy’n rhan sylweddol o’r economi? A yw’n derbyn hefyd y bydd treth fusnes atodol ar y fath weithgynhyrchwyr yn peri i ragor o swyddi gael eu colli? A yw hefyd yn gresynu at y ffaith y bydd y dreth newid hinsawdd, a fydd yn cael ei chyflwyno yn Ebrill—
Dafydd Elis-Thomas The Presiding Officer spoken in English p. 14
Dafydd Elis-Thomas Y Llywydd siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 14
Order. Alun, that is a lot of supplementary questions.
Trefn. Alun, mae hynny yn llawer o gwestiynau atodol.
Rhodri Morgan The First Minister spoken in English p. 15
Rhodri Morgan Prif Weinidog Cymru siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 15
I do not accept the term ‘massive’ in respect of these manufacturing job losses. They are massive in terms of Dolgarrog and the Conwy valley and Llangeinor and the Garw valley, because you are talking about the loss of 180 or 200 jobs in an area where it is not easy to find that type of work. However, you must consider the whole economy and the fact that at no point during their 18 years in Government did the Tories come close to having less than 50,000 unemployed in Wales. Alun Cairns should remember that we have the current level of unemployment in Wales for the first time in 26 years, since June 1975. You attempt to paint this dreadful picture of conditions in Wales, as if it were a cross between Beirut and Bangladesh. No-one will recognise that picture when they look at job advertisements in the local newspapers or the job centre. There are problems in the manufacturing industry and there is a two-way pull between healthy sales of cars, houses and sales in the retail sector and the loss of manufacturing jobs. However, you must not try to paint the picture worse than it is, you will open yourself up to the accusation of trying to talk Wales into a recession.
Nid wyf yn derbyn y term ‘enfawr’ o ran y diswyddiadau gweithgynhyrchu hyn. Maent yn enfawr yn nhermau Dolgarrog a dyffryn Conwy a Llangeinwyr a chwm Garw, gan eich bod yn sôn am golli 180 neu 200 o swyddi mewn ardal lle nad yw’n hawdd dod o hyd i’r math hwnnw o waith. Fodd bynnag, rhaid ichi ystyried yr economi gyfan a’r ffaith na ddaeth y Torïaid yn agos yn ystod eu 18 mlynedd o Lywodraeth at gael llai na 50,000 o bobl ddi-waith yng Nghymru. Dylai Alun Cairns gofio fod gennym y lefel bresennol o ddiweithdra yng Nghymru am y tro cyntaf mewn 26 blynedd, ers Mehefin 1975. Yr ydych yn ceisio rhoi darlun ofnadwy o amodau yng Nghymru, fel petai yn ymdebygu i Beirut neu Bangladesh. Ni fydd unrhyw un yn adnabod y darlun hwnnw pan fyddant yn edrych ar hysbysiadau swyddi yn y papurau lleol neu’r ganolfan waith. Mae problemau yn y diwydiant gweithgynhyrchu ac mae tyniad dwy ffordd rhwng gwerthiannau iachus o geir, tai a gwerthiannau yn y sector manwerthu a cholli swyddi gweithgynhyrchu. Fodd bynnag, ni ddylech geisio rhoi darlun sy’n waeth nag y mae mewn gwirionedd, cewch eich cyhuddo o geisio siarad Cymru i mewn i ddirwasgiad.
Rôl Is-bwyllgorau’r Cabinet wrth Ddatblygu Polisi
Role of Cabinet Sub-committees in Policy Development
A wnaiff Prif Weinidog Cymru ddatganiad yn egluro rôl is-bwyllgorau’r Cabinet wrth ddatblygu polisïau? (OAQ14019)
Will the First Minister make a statement explaining the role of Cabinet sub-committees in policy development? (OAQ14019)
Rhodri Morgan Prif Weinidog Cymru siaradwyd yn Gymraeg t. 15
Rhodri Morgan The First Minister spoken in Welsh p. 15
Mae’r is-bwyllgorau yn datblygu polisïau ar faterion sy’n rhychwantu portffolios gweinidogol ac maent yn cydlynu’r gwaith o lunio polisïau yn y meysydd hyn. Maent yn gwneud penderfyniadau neu argymhellion ar bolisi yn yr un modd ag y mae’r Cabinet yn gwneud hynny. Mae’r is-bwyllgorau’n cyfrannu at waith y Cabinet drwy ganiatáu i benderfyniadau polisi gael eu gwneud mewn dull mwy ystyriol a chynhwysfawr.
The sub-committees develop policies on matters that cut across ministerial portfolios and co-ordinate policymaking in these areas. They make decisions or recommendations on policy in the same way that the Cabinet does. Sub-committees contribute to the Cabinet’s work by allowing policy decisions to be made in a more considered and comprehensive way.
Gan dderbyn pwysigrwydd eich rôl ar is-bwyllgor Cymru a’r Byd, ac o ystyried eich ymroddiad i dryloywder cyllidol, a wnewch chi gyhoeddi faint o arian cyhoeddus sy’n cael ei wario i ariannu eich rôl o fewn yr is-bwyllgor hwnnw?
While I accept the importance of your role on the Wales and the World sub-committee, and given your commitment to financial transparency, will you publish how much public funding is spent on financing your role on this sub-committee?
Rhodri Morgan Y Prif Weinidog siaradwyd yn Gymraeg t. 16
Rhodri Morgan The First Minister spoken in Welsh p. 16
Ysgrifennaf atoch gan nad yw’r ffigurau hynny gennyf.
I will write to you as I do not have those figures.
I understand that the Cabinet policy unit is looking at the future role of Assembly sponsored public bodies and the Government’s relationship with them. Would a Cabinet sub-committee be the appropriate body to set a match to the bonfire of the quangos?
Deallaf fod uned bolisi’r Cabinet yn edrych ar rôl y cyrff a noddir gan y Cynulliad a pherthynas y Llywodraeth â hwy yn y dyfodol. A fyddai is-bwyllgor y Cabinet yn gorff priodol i gynnau coelcerth y cwangos?
Rhodri Morgan The First Minister spoken in English p. 16
Rhodri Morgan Prif Weinidog Cymru siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 16
I meet the Chairs of the all-Wales quangos once every six months or so. We narrowly avoided adding another Chair to them last week on the health front, as you will recall. I discuss with them how to co-ordinate what they do with what the Cabinet does and how to tie them as closely as possible into our policies because they are our executive arm. I do not know whether it is necessary to have a Cabinet sub-committee, but it is important that the quangos understand that they are the Cabinet’s executive arm in terms of carrying out Cabinet policy and the quinquennial reviews that consider the justification for the existence of these quangos. Although it is stated that the reviews take place quinquennially, that does not necessarily mean that they take place every five years, but it is around that time. That process is proceeding.
Yr wyf yn cyfarfod â Chadeiryddion cwangos Cymru gyfan tua bob chwe mis. Gwnaethom osgoi, o drwch blewyn, ychwanegu Cadeirydd arall atynt yr wythnos diwethaf ym maes iechyd, fel y byddwch yn cofio. Yr wyf yn trafod â hwy sut i gydlynu’r hyn y maent yn ei wneud gyda’r hyn y mae’r Cabinet yn ei wneud a sut i’w clymu mor agos â phosibl â’n polisïau gan mai hwy yw ein cangen weithredol. Ni wn a yw’n angenrheidiol i gael is-bwyllgor Cabinet, ond mae’n bwysig bod y cwangos yn deall mai hwy yw cangen weithredol y Cabinet o ran gweithredu polisi’r Cabinet a’r adolygiadau bob pum mlynedd sy’n ystyried y cyfiawnhad dros fodolaeth y cwangos hynny. Er y nodir bod yr adolygiadau yn digwydd bob pum mlynedd, nid yw hynny o reidrwydd yn golygu eu bod yn digwydd bob pum mlynedd, ond mae oddeutu’r amser hwnnw. Mae’r broses honno yn mynd yn ei blaen.
Was there a sub-committee on the NHS structural reforms and, if so, was there a Liberal Democrat on it and did he or she agree with the proposed reforms?
A oedd is-bwyllgor ar y diwygiadau i strwythur yr NHS ac, os oedd, a oedd Democrat Rhyddfrydol arno ac a wnaeth ef neu hi gytuno â’r diwygiadau arfaethedig?
Rhodri Morgan The First Minister spoken in English p. 16
Rhodri Morgan Prif Weinidog Cymru siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 16
I praised David Davies’s wit for so early on a Tuesday afternoon around 15 minutes ago I am not sure that I can offer the same praise for that somewhat thin gruel offering. There was no such Cabinet sub-committee. Jane Hutt deals with health policy because it is not a cross-cutting issue, therefore Jane dealt with that policy in consultation with me and we launched it jointly in February 2001.
Rhyw 15 munud yn ôl canmolais ffraethineb David Davies yn gynnar brynhawn dydd Mawrth, ond ni wn a allaf gynnig yr un ganmoliaeth i’r sylw braidd yn ddisylwedd hwnnw. Nid oedd is-bwyllgor Cabinet o’r fath. Jane Hutt sy’n ymdrin â pholisi iechyd gan nad yw’n fater trawsbleidiol, felly ymdriniodd Jane â’r polisi hwnnw mewn ymgynghoriad â minnau ac fe’i lansiwyd ar y cyd gennym yn Chwefror 2001.
Ieuan Wyn Jones The Leader of the Opposition spoken in English p. 17
Ieuan Wyn Jones Arweinydd yr Wrthblaid siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 17
Given that unsatisfactory response to David Melding, will you think again about having a sub-committee to consider these health reforms because it is clear that they were not discussed with the Liberal Democrats. I will remind you of what Peter Black said in response to Jane Hutt’s statement last week:
O ystyried yr ymateb anfoddhaol hwnnw i David Melding, a fyddwch yn meddwl eto ynglŷn â sefydlu is-bwyllgor i ystyried y diwygiadau iechyd hyn gan ei bod yn amlwg na thrafodwyd hwy â’r Democratiaid Rhyddfrydol. Hoffwn eich atgoffa o’r hyn a ddywedodd Peter Black mewn ymateb i ddatganiad Jane Hutt wythnos diwethaf:
‘As you know, partnerships are not always easy or comfortable, and they demand listening and commitment on both sides.’
‘Fel y gwyddoch, nid yw partneriaethau yn bethau hawdd na chyfforddus bob amser, ac maent yn hawlio gwrandawiad ac ymrwymiad ar y ddwy ochr.’
Does not that mean that he was not told what these plans were? How do you intend to keep Peter and his bunch a little happier in future?
Onid yw hynny yn golygu na ddywedwyd wrtho beth oedd y cynlluniau hyn? Sut yr ydych yn bwriadu sicrhau bod Peter a’i griw rywfaint yn hapusach yn y dyfodol?
Rhodri Morgan The First Minister spoken in English p. 17
Rhodri Morgan Prif Weinidog Cymru siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 17
If you wanted to be here for the statement last week, there was nothing to prevent you. It is a bit late to make a contribution to a discussion on a statement that was made a week ago.
Os oeddech am fod yn bresennol am y datganiad yr wythnos diwethaf, nid oedd dim i’ch rhwystro. Mae braidd yn hwyr i wneud cyfraniad i drafodaeth ar ddatganiad a wnaethpwyd wythnos yn ôl.
I had the great pleasure of watching it on television, Rhodri. We heard on radio this morning that your former colleagues, Jon Owen Jones and Win Griffiths, are going to tear lumps out of the health service reforms in the House of Commons this afternoon. Why is it that the House of Commons will be spending six and a half hours debating this today, whereas we have not yet had a single minute’s debate on it? Why does the House of Commons Bill set out these reforms, even though the Assembly has not yet agreed them? Who is running this show? Is it you, Alan Milburn, Tony Blair or Jane Hutt? Get a grip, Rhodri.
Cefais bleser mawr o’i wylio ar y teledu, Rhodri. Clywsom ar y radio bore heddiw fod eich cyn gyd-Aelodau Seneddol, Jon Owen Jones a Win Griffiths, yn mynd i dynnu’r diwygiadau i’r gwasanaeth iechyd yn ddarnau yn Nhŷ’r Cyffredin y prynhawn yma. Pam y bydd Tŷ’r Cyffredin yn treulio chwe awr a hanner yn trafod hyn heddiw, tra nad ydym ninnau wedi cael dim trafodaethau o gwbl arno? Pam bod Mesur Tŷ’r Cyffredin yn nodi’r diwygiadau hyn, er nad yw’r Cynulliad wedi cytuno arnynt hyd yma? Pwy sydd wrth y llyw? Ai chi, Alan Milburn, Tony Blair ynteu Jane Hutt ydyw? Calliwch, Rhodri.
Rhodri Morgan The First Minister spoken in English p. 17
Rhodri Morgan Prif Weinidog Cymru siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 17
I enjoyed that, particularly the last remark, which was uncharacteristically pugnacious. You should have listened carefully to what Jon Owen Jones said on radio this morning. He did not say that he was going to tear lumps out of the reforms. He said that he was going to do his proper job in scrutinising them. That is what Members of Parliament must do. They have no alternative but to scrutinise legislation.
Mwynheuais hynny, yn enwedig y sylw olaf, a oedd yn annodweddiadol o ymosodol. Dylech fod wedi gwrando’n ofalus ar yr hyn a ddywedodd Jon Owen Jones ar y radio bore heddiw. Ni ddywedodd y byddai’n tynnu’r diwygiadau’n ddarnau. Dywedodd y byddai’n gwneud ei briod waith wrth graffu arnynt. Dyna beth y mae’n rhaid i Aelodau Seneddol ei wneud. Nid oes ganddynt ddewis. Rhaid iddynt graffu ar ddeddfwriaeth.
Ieuan’s comparison between the time spent debating this in Westminster and here is based on a primitive form of mathematics. He implied that, during the second reading of this Bill tonight, the House of Commons will spend six and a half hours discussing the Welsh clauses. Ieuan knows that that is not the case. All the clauses will be discussed during the second reading. I imagine that, of the 70 or 80 clauses, about 10 involve Wales. Therefore, proportionately, only one-sixth or one-seventh of tonight’s debate will be spent discussing those clauses. However, I cannot be sure about that as it depends on whom the Speaker calls. When we debate this in the Assembly, we will only discuss the Welsh clauses. We will not discuss the English clauses. Ieuan knows that perfectly well. He is making absurd comparisons between the time for the debate in Westminster today and that in the Assembly next week, when we will discuss this issue.
Mae cymhariaeth Ieuan rhwng yr amser a dreulir yn trafod hyn yn San Steffan ac yma yn seiliedig ar fath cyntefig o fathemateg. Awgrymodd y bydd Tŷ’r Cyffredin, yn ystod ail ddarlleniad o’r Mesur hwn heno, yn treulio chwe awr a hanner yn trafod y cymalau i Gymru. Gŵyr Ieuan nad yw hynny’n wir. Trafodir pob cymal yn ystod yr ail ddarlleniad. Credaf, o’r 70 neu 80 cymal, fod tua 10 yn ymwneud â Chymru. Felly, yn gyfrannol, dim ond un rhan o chwech neu un rhan o saith o’r ddadl heno a dreulir yn trafod y cymalau hynny. Fodd bynnag, ni allaf fod yn siŵr am hynny gan ei fod yn dibynnu ar bwy y mae’r Llefarydd yn ei alw. Pan gynhaliwn ddadl ar hyn yn y Cynulliad, dim ond cymalau Cymru y byddwn yn eu trafod. Ni fyddwn yn trafod cymalau Lloegr. Gŵyr Ieuan hynny’n iawn. Mae’n gwneud cymariaethau gwirion rhwng yr amser ar gyfer y ddadl yn San Steffan heddiw a’r ddadl yn y Cynulliad yr wythnos nesaf, pan fyddwn yn trafod y mater hwn.
Dafydd Elis-Thomas Y Llywydd siaradwyd yn Gymraeg t. 18
Dafydd Elis-Thomas The Presiding Officer spoken in Welsh p. 18
Oherwydd y problemau technegol gyda’r sain, galwaf am ddistawrwydd tra bo meicroffonau’r Aelodau yn cael eu profi. Nid oes dirgelwch ynglŷn â hyn. Yr oeddwn eisiau sicrhau bod y meicroffonau i gyd yn gweithio. Fel y dywedais lawer tro, os oes problem dechnegol, mae’n well gennyf ein bod yn delio â hi ar y pryd yn hytrach na pheri anhawster i ni ein hunain.
Due to the technical problems with the sound, I call for silence while the Members’ microphones are checked. There is no mystery about this. I wanted to ensure that all the microphones are working. As I have said many times, if there is a technical problem, I prefer that we deal with it at once, rather than cause ourselves difficulties.
Cydlynu Polisïau yng Nghanolbarth a Gorllewin Cymru
Co-ordination of Policies in Mid and West Wales
Q5 Nick Bourne The Leader of the Welsh Conservatives spoken in English p. 18
C5 Nick Bourne Arweinydd Ceidwadwyr Cymru siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 18
How is the First Minister co-ordinating health, economic, education and transport policies in Mid and West Wales, particularly in relation to rural communities and the preservation of the Welsh language? (OAQ14035)
Sut mae Prif Weinidog Cymru yn cydlynu polisïau iechyd, economaidd, addysg a thrafnidiaeth yng Nghanolbarth a Gorllewin Cymru, yn arbennig mewn perthynas â chymunedau gwledig a diogelu’r Gymraeg? (OAQ14035)
Rhodri Morgan The First Minister spoken in English p. 18
Rhodri Morgan Prif Weinidog Cymru siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 18
I am committed to supporting rural Wales and ensuring an economically, socially and environmentally sustainable future for rural communities, not only in Mid and West Wales but throughout Wales. That is made clear in the new strategic plan, ‘Plan for Wales 2001’, and the draft national economic development strategy, ‘A Winning Wales’.
Yr wyf yn ymrwymedig i gefnogi Cymru wledig a sicrhau dyfodol economaidd, cymdeithasol ac amgylcheddol cynaliadwy ar gyfer cymunedau gwledig, nid yn unig yng Nghanolbarth a Gorllewin Cymru ond ledled Cymru. Gwneir hynny’n glir yn y cynllun strategol newydd, ‘Cynllun i Gymru 2001’, a’r strategaeth ddatblygu economaidd ddrafft, ‘Cymru ar ei Hennill’.
We have already heard of the serious job losses announced yesterday in Dolgarrog, in Mid and West Wales. This follows substantial bad news about jobs earlier in the year from large employers such as Dewhirst and Dairy Crest. We know that the health service is in a mess because of the proposed reforms, which we have not yet had an opportunity to debate in the Assembly. I will concentrate on education. The recent rural schools policy announced by the Minister for Education and Lifelong Learning means, first, that there is no presumption against closure, unlike in England, and, secondly, that local authorities must review every school with a roll of less than 50 pupils. As a result, the future of 13 schools in Pembrokeshire, for example, is in question and their prospects have not been enhanced by this announcement. Those schools face closure. Many of them are Welsh-medium schools. What do you have to say to that, Minister? How does that enhance rural policy in west Wales?
Yr ydym eisoes wedi clywed am y diswyddiadau mawr a gyhoeddwyd ddoe yn Nolgarrog, yng Nghanolbarth a Gorllewin Cymru. Mae hyn yn dilyn newyddion drwg iawn am swyddi yn gynharach yn y flwyddyn gan gyflogwyr mawr megis Dewhirst a Dairy Crest. Gwyddom fod y gwasanaeth iechyd mewn cyflwr gwael oherwydd y diwygiadau arfaethedig nad ydym hyd yma wedi cael cyfle i’w trafod yn y Cynulliad. Canolbwyntiaf ar addysg. Mae’r polisi ysgolion gwledig diweddar a gyhoeddwyd gan y Gweinidog dros Addysg a Dysgu Gydol Oes yn golygu, yn gyntaf, nad oes rhagdybiaeth yn erbyn cau, yn wahanol i Loegr, ac, yn ail, bod yn rhaid i awdurdodau lleol adolygu pob ysgol gyda llai na 50 o ddisgyblion. O ganlyniad, mae dyfodol 13 o ysgolion yn Sir Benfro, er enghraifft, yn y fantol ac nid yw eu rhagolygon yn well yn sgîl y cyhoeddiad hwn. Mae’r ysgolion hynny yn wynebu’r posibilrwydd y cânt eu cau. Mae nifer ohonynt yn ysgolion Cymraeg. Beth sydd gennych i’w ddweud am hynny, Weinidog? Sut y mae hynny yn ehangu polisi gwledig yng ngorllewin Cymru?
Rhodri Morgan The First Minister spoken in English p. 19
Rhodri Morgan Prif Weinidog Cymru siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 19
I know some of those schools, such as Ysgol Dinas, well, as I am friendly with the family of the person who was Ysgol Dinas’s headteacher when I was a small boy. I am sympathetic to the issue of saving rural schools. However, we must face the fact that, sometimes, parents will remove their children virtually en bloc from a school and take them to an adjoining school three or four miles away. Given that, it is difficult to say that every school must be preserved. I understand that, when the Education and Lifelong Learning Committee discussed a paper on rural schools on 31 October, in line with the partnership agreement’s commitment to developing an Assembly policy on rural and small schools, it was agreed—I think by all four parties present—that the key issue must be quality of education provision, not a sterilised map of schools that were planned maybe 50 or 100 years ago.
Yr wyf yn gyfarwydd iawn â rhai o’r ysgolion hyn, megis Ysgol Dinas, yn dda, gan fy mod yn gyfeillgar â theulu’r person oedd yn bennaeth ar Ysgol Dinas pan oeddwn yn fach. Yr wyf yn cydymdeimlo â’r mater o achub ysgolion gwledig. Fodd bynnag, rhaid inni wynebu’r ffaith y bydd rhieni, o bryd i’w gilydd, yn symud eu plant fwy neu lai gyda’i gilydd o ysgol a’u rhoi mewn ysgol gyfagos dair neu bedair milltir i ffwrdd. O ystyried hynny, mae’n anodd dweud y dylid cadw pob ysgol. Deallaf, pan wnaeth y Pwyllgor Addysg a Dysgu Gydol Oes drafod papur ar ysgolion gwledig ar 31 Hydref, yn unol ag ymrwymiad y cytundeb partneriaeth i ddatblygu polisi yn y Cynulliad ar ysgolion gwledig ac ysgolion bach, cytunwyd—gan bob plaid a oedd yn bresennol mi gredaf—mai ansawdd y ddarpariaeth addysg ddylai fod y mater allweddol, nid map moel o ysgolion a gynlluniwyd efallai 50 neu 100 mlynedd yn ôl.
The key issue is certainly education. Schools must deliver the national curriculum effectively. That has always been the raison d’être of any school. You mentioned the uncertainty surrounding schools and that parents will take their children out and send them elsewhere, or at least that was implicit when you said that children will go elsewhere. That is not assisted by a policy where a school of 50 or fewer children automatically has a question mark raised over it, for example, schools such as Angle and Mathry which are all over the front of the Western Telegraph this week. That is exactly what will happen because of the policy announced by the Minister for Education and Lifelong Learning. Will you ask her to review that? Will you try at least to introduce a presumption against closure, as there is in England, so that we do not lose these excellent rural schools?
Yn sicr y mater allweddol yw addysg. Rhaid i ysgolion gyflwyno’r cwricwlwm cenedlaethol yn effeithiol. Dyna raison d’être ysgolion erioed. Cyfeiriasoch at yr ansicrwydd yn gysylltiedig ag ysgolion a’r ffaith y bydd rhieni yn symud eu plant o ysgol ac yn eu hanfon rywle arall, neu o leiaf yr oedd hynny yn ymhlyg pan ddywedasoch y byddai plant yn mynd rhywle arall. Nid yw polisi lle mae dyfodol ysgol o 50 neu lai o blant yn y fantol yn awtomatig fawr o gymorth o ran hynny, er enghraifft, ysgolion megis Angle a Mathry sydd dros dudalen flaen y Western Telegraph yr wythnos hon. Dyna’n union fydd yn digwydd oherwydd y polisi a gyhoeddwyd gan y Gweinidog dros Addysg a Dysgu Gydol Oes. A ofynnwch iddi adolygu hynny? A wnewch o leiaf geisio cyflwyno rhagdybiaeth yn erbyn cau, fel sydd yn Lloegr, fel nad ydym yn colli’r ysgolion gwledig ardderchog hyn?
Rhodri Morgan The First Minister spoken in English p. 20
Rhodri Morgan Prif Weinidog Cymru siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 20
We do not automatically use the same wording, clauses, presumptions or descriptions as those used in England. That is the meaning of devolution. We have phrased it so that the impact of the closure of a rural school on the sustainability of the local community will be taken into account. Like other community facilities such as the post office or the village shop, we understand that a school can become the focus of village life. That is a matter to set alongside—as you agreed, Nick—the quality of education provision. That is the key question. Can the school deliver the national curriculum? Do the parents accept that it can deliver the national curriculum? That is what stabilises the school.
Nid ydym yn awtomatig yn defnyddio’r un geiriau, cymalau, rhagdybiaethau neu ddisgrifiadau â’r rhai a ddefnyddir yn Lloegr. Dyna ystyr datganoli. Yr ydym wedi ei eirio fel yr ystyrir effaith cau ysgol wledig ar gynaliadwyedd y gymuned leol. Fel cyfleusterau cymunedol eraill megis y swyddfa bost neu siop y pentref, deallwn y gall ysgol ddod yn ganolbwynt bywyd pentref. Mae hynny yn fater i’w osod ochr yn ochr—fel y cytunasoch, Nick—ag ansawdd darpariaeth addysg. Dyna’r cwestiwn allweddol. A all yr ysgol gyflwyno’r cwricwlwm cenedlaethol? A yw’r rhieni yn derbyn y gall yr ysgol gyflwyno’r cwricwlwm cenedlaethol? Dyna beth sy’n sefydlogi’r ysgol.
Do you agree that the partnership Government’s rural schools policy is a step forward, when we hear criticism from a party whose leader once said that there is no such thing as society? It would do them the world of good to give full support to this rural schools policy.
A gytunwch fod polisi ysgolion gwledig y Llywodraeth yn gam ymlaen, pan glywn feirniadaeth gan blaid y dywedodd ei harweinydd un tro nad oes y fath beth â chymdeithas? Byddai’n gwneud byd o les iddynt roi cefnogaeth lawn i’r polisi ysgolion gwledig hwn.
Rhodri Morgan The First Minister spoken in English p. 20
Rhodri Morgan Prif Weinidog Cymru siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 20
We agreed 13 months ago that we would develop a policy on rural and small schools. That was put to the Education and Lifelong Learning Committee two and a half weeks ago. We should allow that consultation exercise to mature, and it will then come back to the Assembly. At the same time, local authorities will continue to have the main responsibility for determining what is the proper educational pattern in their area. Factors such as the Welsh language and how key an influence the school plays in village life are important, and we will continue to impress those on our partners in local government. It is their principal responsibility, but we have made it clear as we mature this policy that we expect them to take into account the impact of closing a school on the viability of the local community.
Cytunwyd 13 mis yn ôl y byddem yn datblygu polisi ar ysgolion gwledig ac ysgolion bach. Rhoddwyd hynny gerbron y Pwyllgor Addysg a Dysgu Gydol Oes bythefnos a hanner yn ôl. Dylem ganiatáu i’r ymarfer ymgynghori hwnnw aeddfedu, ac yna daw yn ôl i’r Cynulliad. Ar yr un pryd, bydd awdurdodau lleol yn parhau â’r prif gyfrifoldeb ar gyfer pennu beth yw’r patrwm addysgiadol cywir yn eu hardal. Mae ffactorau megis yr iaith Gymraeg a pha mor allweddol yw dylanwad yr ysgol ym mywyd y pentref yn bwysig, a byddwn yn parhau i bwysleisio’r rheini i’n partneriaid mewn llywodraeth leol. Eu prif gyfrifoldeb hwy ydyw, ond yr ydym wedi pwysleisio wrth inni ddatblygu’r polisi hwn ein bod yn disgwyl iddynt ystyried effaith cau ysgol ar ddichonoldeb y gymuned leol.
Sicrhau Ystyriaeth o Anghenion Cymru gan Sefydliadau Ewropeaidd
Ensuring European Institutions Consider Wales’s Needs
What steps has the First Minister taken to ensure that Wales’s needs are taken into consideration by all relevant European institutions? (OAQ14017)
Pa gamau y mae’r Prif Weinidog wedi’u cymryd i sicrhau bod pob sefydliad Ewropeaidd perthnasol yn ystyried anghenion Cymru? (OAQ14017)
Rhodri Morgan The First Minister spoken in English p. 21
Rhodri Morgan Prif Weinidog Cymru siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 21
The Assembly works closely with the UK Government, which is ultimately responsible for representing the views of the UK as a whole in Brussels. Only last week I attended a Joint Ministerial Committee on Europe at the Cabinet Office in readiness for the Brussels-Laken summit in three or four weeks’ time. We also have our own office in Brussels, which works closely with the UK permanent representative office, Members of the European Parliament and other partners. The Assembly has direct membership of the Committee of the Regions, which is also important. Sadly, and as you are probably aware, Phil, I was unable due to illness to attend the summit of regional premiers in Liège, but we were represented by officials. It is important that European institutions hear the Welsh voice loud and clear on issues such as enlargement, the environment and economic development.
Mae’r Cynulliad yn cydweithio’n agos â Llywodraeth y DU, sy’n gyfrifol yn pen draw am gynrychioli barn y DU gyfan ym Mrwsel. Dim ond yr wythnos diwethaf mynychais Gydbwyllgor y Gweinidogion ar Ewrop yn Swyddfa’r Cabinet yn barod ar gyfer uwch-gynhadledd Brwsel-Laken ymhen tair neu bedair wythnos. Mae gennym ein swyddfa ein hunain ym Mrwsel hefyd, sy’n cydweithio’n agos â swyddfa gynrychioliadol barhaol y DU, Aelodau Senedd Ewrop a phartneriaid eraill. Mae’r Cynulliad yn aelod uniongyrchol o Bwyllgor y Rhanbarthau, sydd hefyd yn bwysig. Yn anffodus, ac fel yr ydych chi’n ymwybodol mae’n debyg, Phil, oherwydd salwch ni lwyddais i fynychu uwch-gynhadledd prif-weinidogion y rhanbarthau yn Liège, ond fe’n cynrychiolwyd gan swyddogion. Mae’n bwysig bod sefydliadau Ewropeaidd yn clywed llais Cymru yn eglur ar faterion megis ehangu’r undeb, yr amgylchedd a datblygu economaidd.
In that meeting in Liège, what steps were taken to ensure public support on behalf of the National Assembly for Wales for the Flanders declaration, which seeks to strengthen the role and influence of regions and small nations in the institutional framework of Europe?
Yn y cyfarfod hwnnw yn Liège, pa gamau a gymerwyd i sicrhau cymorth cyhoeddus ar ran Cynulliad Cenedlaethol Cymru ar gyfer datganiad Fflandrys, sy’n ceisio atgyfnerthu rôl a dylanwad rhanbarthau a chenhedloedd bach o fewn fframwaith sefydliadol Ewrop?
Rhodri Morgan The First Minister spoken in English p. 22
Rhodri Morgan Prif Weinidog Cymru siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 22
I will have to write to you about that. I have not yet seen the officials who attended—one who went in my place and one who would have gone in any case to report back to me. In advance of the meeting it was roughly 50/50. We were not seeking what some of the signatories of the Flanders declaration were seeking, namely, independent access to the European Court of Justice for bodies such as the Assembly. We were seeking a role in the run-up to the inter-governmental conference in 2004 on the respective competencies of European institutions, the member states and the regional tiers of government such as the Assembly.
Bydd rhaid imi ysgrifennu atoch ynghylch hynny. Nid wyf wedi gweld y swyddogion a fynychodd eto—un a aeth yn fy lle i ac un a fyddai wedi mynd beth bynnag i roi adroddiad i mi. Cyn y cyfarfod yr oedd tua 50/50. Nid oeddem yn ceisio’r hyn yr oedd rhai o lofnodwyr datganiad Flanders yn ei geisio, sef mynediad annibynnol i’r Llys Cyfiawnder Ewropeaidd i gyrff fel y Cynulliad. Yr oeddem yn ceisio rôl yn y cyfnod cyn y gynhadledd ryng-lywodraethol yn 2004 ar alluoedd priodol sefydliadau Ewropeaidd, yr aelod-wladwriaethau a haenau rhanbarthol llywodraeth fel y Cynulliad.
We are well served by our official in Brussels, Des Clifford. In light of the expansion of the European Union’s remit and membership, does the Government have any plans to increase the number of officials working at the European level of policy making in Brussels?
Mae ein swyddog ym Mrwsel, Des Clifford, yn ein gwasanaethu’n dda. Yng ngoleuni ehangu cylch gorchwyl ac aelodaeth yr Undeb Ewropeaidd, a oes gan y Llywodraeth unrhyw gynlluniau i gynyddu nifer y swyddogion sy’n gweithio ar lunio polisïau ar lefel Ewropeaidd ym Mrwsel?
Rhodri Morgan The First Minister spoken in English p. 22
Rhodri Morgan Prif Weinidog Cymru siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 22
The Assembly is sparsely and tightly represented in a cost-effective way by Des Clifford and one other senior official in our office at the Wales European Centre. We operate as a sub-office of WEC so that we do not have two lots of overheads, through our subscription to WEC and also having our own office with the diplomatic cover that that gives you. I therefore cannot give any undertakings to you today, Jonathan, that we will seek to increase the number of Assembly staff working at the Wales European Centre. We believe that the present system works well and we do not have evidence yet that lack of staff prevents our voice from being heard.
Caiff y Cynulliad ei gynrychioli mewn modd cynnil a chost-effeithiol gan Des Clifford ac un uwch swyddog arall yn ein swyddfa yng Nghanolfan Ewropeaidd Cymru. Yr ydym yn gweithredu fel is-swyddfa yng Nghanolfan Ewropeaidd Cymru fel nad oes gennym ddwy set o orbenion, drwy ein tanysgrifiad i Ganolfan Ewropeaidd Cymru a thrwy ein swyddfa ein hunain gyda’r ddarpariaeth ddiplomyddol y mae hynny yn ei ganiatáu. Felly ni allaf roi unrhyw addewid ichi heddiw, Jonathan, y byddwn yn ceisio cynyddu nifer staff y Cynulliad sy’n gweithio yng Nghanolfan Ewropeaidd Cymru. Credwn fod y system bresennol yn gweithio’n dda ac nid oes gennym unrhyw dystiolaeth hyd yma bod prinder staff yn atal ein llais rhag cael ei glywed.
Trafodaethau rhwng Gweinidogion a Phartneriaid yn y Sector Cyhoeddus a’r Sector Preifat
Dialogue between Ministers and Private and Public Sector Partners
Pa gamau y mae Prif Weinidog Cymru yn eu cymryd i sicrhau trafodaeth briodol rhwng Gweinidogion ei Lywodraeth a’r gwahanol bartneriaid yn y sector preifat a chyhoeddus? (OAQ14029)
What steps is the First Minister taking to ensure a proper dialogue between the Ministers in his Government and the various partners in the public and private sector? (OAQ14029)
Rhodri Morgan Prif Weinidog Cymru siaradwyd yn Gymraeg t. 23
Rhodri Morgan The First Minister spoken in Welsh p. 23
Credaf fod pawb yn derbyn ein bod wedi mynd y tu hwnt i’r gofynion statudol sydd arnom drwy greu cynghorau partneriaeth ar gyfer y sectorau gwirfoddol, busnes a llywodraeth leol. Mae’r rhain yn darparu llwyfan priodol ar gyfer cynnal trafodaethau adeiladol a rheolaidd rhwng Gweinidogion a’n partneriaid.
I believe that everyone accepts that we have gone beyond the statutory requirements by establishing partnership councils for the voluntary, business and local government sectors. These provide an appropriate platform for regular and constructive dialogue between Ministers and our partners.
Sut felly yr esboniwch fod arweinwyr busnes yng Nghymru, gan gynnwys Cyd-ffederasiwn Diwydiant Prydain a’r Ffederasiwn Busnesau Bach, yn teimlo eu bod wedi gwastraffu eu hamser wrth geisio cyfrannu at ddatblygiad y strategaeth datblygu economaidd genedlaethol dros yr haf? Os yw partneriaeth yn golygu gwrando, sut yr ymatebwch i’r cyhuddiad hwnnw?
How then do you explain that business leaders in Wales, including the Confederation of British Industry and the Federation of Small Businesses, feel that they have wasted their time in trying to contribute to developing the national economic development strategy over the summer? If partnership means listening, how do you respond to that accusation?
Rhodri Morgan Prif Weinidog Cymru siaradwyd yn Gymraeg t. 23
Rhodri Morgan The First Minister spoken in Welsh p. 23
Ni wnaethpwyd y cyhuddiad hwnnw imi. Mae’r berthynas â’n partneriaid ar yr ochr fusnes, sef yr undebau llafur a pherchnogion busnesau, yn ddigon da, ac yr ydym yn cydweithio i sefydlu Uned Partneriaeth Cymdeithasol Cymru. Yr ydym yn bwrw ymlaen gyda hynny. Yr ydym wedi cyfrannu tuag at gostau’r uned drwy dalu am hysbysebu’r swyddi. Bydd yr uned, fodd bynnag, yn annibynnol arnom ni er mwyn iddi allu chwarae rhan lawn, ochr yn ochr â ni, ar y Cyngor Partneriaeth Busnes ac mewn rhai agweddau eraill hefyd.
That accusation has not been made directly to me. The relationship between us and our partners on the business side, namely the trade unions and the business proprietors, is healthy, and we are working together to create the Wales Social Partners Unit. That is now going ahead. We have contributed towards the unit’s costs by paying for the job advertisements. However, the unit will be independent from us, so that it can join us in playing a full part on the Business Partnership Council and also in some other aspects.
I will ask about your dialogue with the Minister for Economic Development. Do you share my concern about his health and wellbeing, which have been showing signs of failing recently, due to his reduced effectiveness? Will you act to end this abuse of the Minister for Economic Development’s working rights immediately?
Gofynnaf am eich trafodaeth gyda’r Gweinidog dros Ddatblygu Economaidd. A rannwch fy mhryder ynghylch ei iechyd a’i les, sydd wedi bod yn dangos arwyddion o fethu yn ddiweddar, oherwydd gostyngiad yn ei effeithiolrwydd? A weithredwch i roi diwedd ar unwaith ar ffordd y mae hawliau gwaith y Gweinidog dros Ddatblygu Economaidd yn cael eu diystyru yn y fath fodd?
Rhodri Morgan The First Minister spoken in English p. 23
Rhodri Morgan Prif Weinidog Cymru siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 23
I do not think that you should ever try to gain political advantage, even in a semi-humorous fashion, when a Minister is ill, Glyn. It ill beholds you as something of a gentleman among the Tories.
Ni chredaf y dylech fyth geisio ennill mantais wleidyddol, hyd yn oed mewn modd lled ddigrif, pan fo Gweinidog yn sâl, Glyn. Nid yw’n gweddu ichi a chithau yn un o foneddigion y Torïaid.
I congratulate the First Minister on falling into the trap laid for him by the leader of the opposition. Are you content that your partners in London, in discussing 10 clauses of a Bill that fundamentally changes the health service in Wales, will effectively spend less than an hour in doing so?
Llongyfarchaf y Prif Weinidog ar syrthio i’r fagl a osodwyd gan arweinydd yr wrthblaid. A ydych yn fodlon y bydd eich partneriaid yn Llundain, wrth drafod 10 cymal Mesur sy’n newid y gwasanaeth iechyd yng Nghymru yn sylfaenol, yn treulio llai nag awr yn gwneud hynny?
Rhodri Morgan The First Minister spoken in English p. 24
Rhodri Morgan Prif Weinidog Cymru siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 24
You cannot have it both ways, Rod. Ieuan Wyn Jones said that Members of Parliament in Westminster are spending six and a half hours—more than we are—discussing the clauses and now you complain that they are spending less than an hour—less than we are. You cannot have it both ways. The time allocation for the debate scheduled for 27 November is in line with our Standing Orders. I am sure it will prove sufficient for anyone with enough skill at getting his or her thoughts in order. Likewise, tonight’s debate in the House of Commons will depend on the skill of Welsh MPs from all parties—although some parties will not be able to avail themselves of that opportunity, but that is not our fault. However, MPs will contribute to the debate according to whether or not they are called by the Speaker.
Allwch chi mo’i chael hi bob ffordd, Rod. Dywedodd Ieuan Wyn Jones fod yr Aelodau Seneddol yn San Steffan yn treulio chwech awr a hanner—mwy na ni—wrth drafod y cymalau ac yn awr yr ydych chi’n cwyno eu bod yn treulio llai nag awr—llai na ni. Allwch chi mo’i chael hi bob ffordd. Mae’r dyraniad amser ar gyfer y ddadl a drefnwyd ar gyfer 27 Tachwedd yn unol â’n Rheolau Sefydlog. Yr wyf yn siŵr y bydd hyn yn ddigon i unrhyw un sy’n meddu ar ddigon o sgil i roi trefn ar eu meddyliau. Yn yr un modd, bydd y ddadl heno yn Nhŷ’r Cyffredin yn dibynu ar sgil AS Cymru o bob plaid—er na all rhai pleidiau fanteisio ar y cyfle hwnnw, ond nid ein bai ni yw hynny. Fodd bynnag, bydd AS yn cyfrannu at y drafodaeth gan ddibynnu a fydd y Llefarydd yn eu galw ai peidio.
Dod â Llywodraeth yn nes at Bobl Cymru
Bringing Government closer to the People of Wales
Will the First Minister make a statement on the steps taken to bring government closer to the people of Wales? (OAQ14033).
A wnaiff Prif Weinidog Cymru ddatganiad ar y camau a gymerwyd i ddod â llywodraeth yn nes at bobl Cymru? (OAQ14033)
Rhodri Morgan The First Minister spoken in English p. 24
Rhodri Morgan Prif Weinidog Cymru siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 24
We have the most open and responsive administration in the UK. We take policy-making to the people by supporting freedom of information, using Regional Committees and forming business, voluntary and local government partnerships. Communities First has also taken the decision-making on the regeneration of our most deprived areas to the local level and young people have a voice through ‘Llais Ifanc’/Young Voice. Our consultation processes are also being overhauled to enable effective participation for all in government.
Ni sydd â’r weinyddiaeth fwyaf agored ac ymatebol yn y DU. Yr ydym yn cynnwys y bobl wrth lunio polisïau drwy gefnogi rhyddid gwybodaeth, defnyddio Pwyllgorau Rhanbarth a ffurfio partneriaethau busnes, gwirfoddol a llywodraeth leol. Mae Rhoi Cymunedau’n Gyntaf hefyd wedi mynd â’r gwaith o wneud penderfyniadau ar adfywio ein hardaloedd mwyaf difreintiedig i’r lefel lleol a rhoddir llais i bobl ifanc drwy ‘Llais Ifanc’. Mae ein prosesau ymgynghori hefyd yn cael eu harchwilio i alluogi i bawb gymryd rhan yn effeithiol mewn llywodraeth.
Do you agree that our bottom up approach to Objective 1 has brought that process closer to the people of Wales through its partnership working with the wider civic Wales? Do you also agree that this innovative approach is contributing to the success of Objective 1, which has been underlined further by the recent Department of Trade and Industry figures that show that Wales has committed a larger proportion of its funding than any other UK Objective 1 area?
A gytunwch fod ein hymagwedd o weithio o’r gwaelod i’r brig ar gyfer Amcan 1 wedi dod â’r broses honno’n agosach at bobl Cymru drwy ei bartneriaeth yn cydweithio â’r Gymru ddinesig ehangach? A gytunwch hefyd bod yr ymagwedd aroloesol hwn yn cyfrannu at lwyddiant Amcan 1, a amlygwyd ymhellach gan ffigurau diweddar yr Adran Masnach a Diwydiant sy’n dangos bod Cymru wedi neilltuo cyfran fwy o’i harian nag unrhyw ardal Amcan 1 arall yn y DU?
Rhodri Morgan The First Minister spoken in English p. 25
Rhodri Morgan Prif Weinidog Cymru siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 25
Yes. I cannot imagine why I forgot to mention the former Objective 1 partnership, with which you are directly involved as you chair the current partnership, in the list of our successes in bringing government closer to the people. I should have mentioned that because the figures from the DTI show clearly to Andrew George, the Liberal Democrat MP for St. Ives, Cornwall, that Wales was ahead of the three Objective 1 regions not in Wales or Scotland, namely South Yorkshire, Merseyside and Cornwall. The partnership working is an advantage, rather than a handicap, to getting a rapid level of commitment to Objective 1 projects in Wales.
Gwnaf. Ni wn pam imi anghofio sôn am y cyn bartneriaeth Amcan 1, yr ydych chi’n rhan uniongyrchol ohoni gan eich bod yn cadeirio’r bartneriaeth bresennol, yn y rhestr o’n llwyddiannau wrth ddod â llywodraeth yn agosach at y bobl. Dylwn fod wedi crybwyll hynny oherwydd dengys y ffigurau o’r Adran Masnach a Diwydiant yn glir i Andrew George, AS y Democratiaid Rhyddfrydol dros St. Ives, Cernyw, bod Cymru o flaen y tri rhanbarth Amcan 1 nid yng Nghymru nag yn yr Alban ond yn Ne Swydd Efrog, Glannau Merswy a Chernyw. Mantais, nid rhwystr, yw gweithio mewn partneriaeth er mwyn cael lefel o ymrwymiad i brosiectau Amcan 1 yng Nghymru, a hynny yn gyflym.
You boast of open government and yet will you not impress on your Westminster colleagues that the Freedom of Information Act 2000 and its implications must now be brought forward? You seem to be prevaricating on that year after year. The current suggestion is that it may not come forward until 2005 despite various election manifesto promises.
Yr ydych yn ymffrostio am lywodraeth leol ond ni fyddwch yn pwyso ar eich cyd-Aelodau yn San Steffan bod yn rhaid datblygu Deddf Rhyddid Gwybodaeth 2000 a’i hoblygiadau? Ymddengys eich bod yn dweud celwydd ar hynny flwyddyn ar ôl blwyddyn. Yr awgrym presennol yw na chaiff ei datblygu tan 2005 er gwaethaf llu o addewidion maniffesto etholiad.
Rhodri Morgan The First Minister spoken in English p. 25
Rhodri Morgan Prif Weinidog Cymru siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 25
My views on that issue are well known. We have a strong policy of freedom of information dispensation which, in the Assembly, exists through a voluntary code. That policy was accepted only a couple of months ago here and is working well. The Assembly uses the ombudsman to find instances of maladministration if no substantial harm is caused by the information sought by an individual, journalist or other body being disclosed. I hope that this policy will encourage people to see that it is unlikely that the UK Government will be harmed if it increases its willingness to disclose information. However, we must accept that the type of issues that the UK Government deals with, such as defence security and foreign policy, which are not under the Assembly’s remit, make it easier for us than them.
Gŵyr pawb fy marn i ar y mater hwnnw. Mae gennym bolisi cryf o ganiatáu rhyddid gwybodaeth sydd, yn y Cynulliad, yn bodoli drwy god gwirfoddol. Dim ond dau fis yn ôl y derbyniwyd y polisi hwnnw ac mae’n gweithio’n dda. Defnyddia’r Cynulliad yr ombwdsmon i ganfod achosion o gamweinyddu os na fydd datgelu’r wybodaeth a geisir gan unigolyn, newyddiadurwr neu gorff arall yn achosi niwed sylweddol. Gobeithiaf y bydd y polisi hwn yn annog pobl i weld nad yw’n debygol y caiff Llywodraeth y DU ei niweidio os bydd yn cynyddu ei pharodrwydd i ddatgelu gwybodaeth. Fodd bynnag, rhaid inni dderbyn bod y math o faterion y mae Llywodraeth y DU yn ymdrin â hwy, megis diogelwch amddiffyn a pholisi tramor, nad ydynt yn rhan o gylch gorchwyl y Cynulliad, yn ei gwneud yn haws i ni nag iddynt hwy.
Gwella Delwedd Cymru Dramor
Improving Wales’s Image Abroad
A wnaiff Prif Weinidog Cymru ddatganiad ar yr hyn y mae wedi’i wneud i wella delwedd Cymru dramor yn ystod y misoedd diwethaf? (OAQ14012)
Will the First Minister make a statement on what he has done to improve the image of Wales abroad in the last few months? (OAQ14012)
Rhodri Morgan Prif Weinidog Cymru siaradwyd yn Gymraeg t. 26
Rhodri Morgan The First Minister spoken in Welsh p. 26
Yn ddiweddar, arweiniais deithiau masnach llwyddiannus i Dde Affrica a Chaliffornia, a oedd yn cynnwys cymryd rhan mewn wythnos Cymru lwyddiannus, er mwyn hyrwyddo diwydiant a diwylliant Cymru.
I recently led successful trade missions to South Africa and California, which included participating in a successful Wales week, promoting Welsh industry and culture.
Mae ein llwyddiant wrth ddenu digwyddiadau chwaraeon mawr i Gymru, er enghraifft rownd derfynol Cwpan yr FA, Cwpan Ryder yn 2010, a rownd derfynol pencampwriaeth rali y byd Network Q, a ddaw i Gaerdydd, Llansawel, Brechfa, Llanwynno a fforestydd de a chanolbarth Cymru yr wythnos hon, yn golygu ei bod yn gyfnod cyffrous i ddelwedd Cymru.
Our successes in attracting major sporting events to Wales, such as the FA Cup final, the Ryder Cup in 2010 and the final round of the Network Q world rally championship, which is coming to Cardiff, Llansawel, Brechfa, Llanwynno and the forests of south and mid Wales this week, makes it an exciting time for Wales’s image.
Sefydlodd y Cabinet is-bwyllgor Cymru yn y Byd i geisio codi proffil a dylanwad rhyngwladol Cymru. Onid oes pryder bod penderfyniadau yn cael eu gwneud y tu ôl i ddrysau caeëdig? Sut y bydd y penderfyniadau hyn yn cael eu bwydo i’r Pwyllgorau Pwnc perthnasol?
The Cabinet established the Wales in the World sub-committee to try to raise Wales’s international profile and gain influence. Is there not concern that decisions are taken behind closed doors? How will these decisions be fed through to the relevant Subject Committees?
Rhodri Morgan Prif Weinidog Cymru siaradwyd yn Gymraeg t. 26
Rhodri Morgan The First Minister spoken in Welsh p. 26
Yr ydych braidd yn annheg, Gareth. Cyhoeddir cofnodion cyfarfodydd yr is-bwyllgorau yn yr un modd ag y cyhoeddir rhai’r Cabinet, chwe wythnos ar ôl y cyfarfod perthnasol. Mae hynny’n berthnasol i’r cwestiwn diwethaf gan William Graham. Credaf mai ni yw’r unig lywodraeth yn ynysoedd Prydain sy’n cyhoeddi cofnodion pwyllgorau ac is-bwyllgorau’r Cabinet, yn ogystal â chofnodion cyfarfodydd cyflawn y Cabinet.
You are being slightly unfair, Gareth. We publish the minutes of sub-committee meetings in the same way that we publish those of the Cabinet, six weeks following the relevant meeting. That is also relevant to the last question by William Graham. I think that ours is the only government in the British isles that publishes the minutes of Cabinet committees and sub-committees, as well as minutes of full Cabinet meetings.
Do you agree that our reputation abroad would benefit from a full-time, dedicated Minister for Economic Development? I recommend Carwyn Jones for that role because following his comments on livestock auctions, he clearly does not understand rural affairs.
A gytunwch y byddai ein henw da dramor yn elwa o gael Gweinidog dros Ddatblygu Economaidd llawn amser, ymrwymedig? Argymhellaf Carwyn Jones ar gyfer y rôl honno oherwydd ar ôl ei sylwadau ar arwerthiannau da byw, mae’n amlwg nad yw’n deall materion gwledig.
Rhodri Morgan The First Minister spoken in English p. 27
Rhodri Morgan Prif Weinidog Cymru siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 27
If we had failed to bring the Ryder Cup to Wales in 2010, or to get the FA Cup, or this weekend’s Network Q rally final in Cardiff, or to stage successful Wales weeks in California and trade missions to South Africa, and so on, there might have been some basis for your question. However, trying to pursue a personal vendetta against the Minister for Rural Affairs makes a mockery of question time.
Pe byddem wedi methu dod â Chwpan Ryder i Gymru yn 2010, neu Gwpan yr FA, neu rownd derfynol rali Network Q y penwythnos hwn, neu gynnal wythnosau Cymru llwyddiannus yng Nghaliffornia a chenadaethau masnach i Dde Affrica, ac yn y blaen, efallai y byddai sail i’ch cwestiwn. Fodd bynnag, mae ceisio mynd ar drywydd fendeta personol yn erbyn y Gweinidog dros Faterion Gwledig yn troi’r amser i holi yn ffars.
Cyfarfod ag Arweinwyr Cyngres yr Undebau Llafur Cymru
Meeting with TUC Wales Leaders
A wnaiff Prif Weinidog Cymru ddatganiad ar ba bryd y cafodd gyfarfod ddiwethaf ag arweinwyr TUC Cymru i drafod pob sector yn economi Cymru? (OAQ14037)
Will the First Minister make a statement on when he last had a meeting with Trades Union Congress Wales leaders to discuss all sectors in the Welsh economy? (OAQ14037)
Rhodri Morgan Prif Weinidog Cymru siaradwyd yn Gymraeg t. 27
Rhodri Morgan The First Minister spoken in Welsh p. 27
Cyfarfûm â chynrychiolwyr TUC Cymru ar 27 Mehefin, ac yr wyf yn disgwyl eu cyfarfod eto, ddechrau mis Rhagfyr. Cynrychiolir TUC Cymru yn y cyngor partneriaeth busnes, sy’n adnodd gwerthfawr wrth asesu iechyd a dyfodol gwahanol sectorau economi Cymru. Cyfarfu’r cyngor ddiwethaf ar 29 Mehefin, a bydd yn cwrdd eto yr wythnos hon.
I met Wales TUC representatives on 27 June and expect to meet them again at the beginning of December. Wales TUC is represented on the business partnership council, which is a valuable resource in assessing the health and future of the various sectors of the Welsh economy. The council last met on 29 June, and it will meet again this week.
O gofio traddodiad gwleidyddol y Blaid Lafur disgwyliais y byddai Rhodri Morgan, y Prif Weinidog, am gyfarfod â TUC Cymru yn amlach na hynny. Byddai rhywun hefyd yn meddwl y byddai gofynion yr economi yn golygu bod Rhodri Morgan, y Gweinidog dros Ddatblygu Economaidd, am gyfarfod â TUC Cymru yn amlach. Pan fydd Rhodri yn cyfarfod â’i chynrychiolwyr ddechrau’r mis nesaf, byddant yn dweud wrtho bod Llywodraethau Cymru a San Steffan yn gwneud dim byd i ddiogelu sector gweithgynhyrchu Cymru. Y cyfan sy’n digwydd—fel sy’n digwydd heddiw—yw ei fod yn adweithio i ddatganiadau am golli swyddi.
Given the Labour Party’s political tradition one would expect Rhodri Morgan, the First Minister, to meet with the Wales TUC more often than that. One would also think that the needs of the economy would mean that Rhodri Morgan, the Minister for Economic Development, would want to meet with the Wales TUC more often. When Rhodri meets its representatives at the beginning of next month, they will tell him that the Governments of Wales and Westminster are not doing anything to safeguard Wales’s manufacturing sector. All that happens—as is happening today—is that he reacts to announcements of job losses.
Rhodri Morgan Prif Weinidog Cymru siaradwyd yn Gymraeg t. 27
Rhodri Morgan The First Minister spoken in Welsh p. 27
Yr wyf yn siŵr y bydd TUC Cymru yn croesawu, fel y dylech chi fod wedi gwneud, y ffaith bod diweithdra erbyn hyn o dan 50,000 am y tro cyntaf ers 26 mlynedd. Er hynny, byddwn yn cytuno bod dwy elfen i’r economi a bod gweithgynhyrchu o dan straen ac yn wynebu gaeaf caled dros ben. Mae pawb yn derbyn hynny. Ar y llaw arall, os edrychwch ar yr economi yn ei chrynswth, mae’n fwy llewyrchus nac y bu ers o leiaf chwarter canrif.
I am sure that the Wales TUC will welcome, as you should have done, the fact that unemployment is now under 50,000 for the first time in 26 years. However, I would agree that there are two elements to the economy and that manufacturing is under strain and facing an extremely hard winter. Everyone accepts that. On the other hand, if you look at the economy in its entirety, it is more prosperous than it has been for at least a quarter of a century.
Clearly the lack of a full-time Minister for Economic Development means that it is difficult for the First Minister to meet his obligations. Will he clear up some confusion by telling us why he could not attend the Economic Development Committee’s meeting in north Wales?
Mae’n amlwg bod peidio â chael Gweinidog dros Ddatblygu Economaidd llawn amser yn golygu ei bod yn anodd i’r Prif Weinidog gyflawni ei ddyletswyddau. A wnaiff ddileu rhywfaint o ddryswch drwy ddweud wrthym pam na allai fynychu cyfarfod y Pwyllgor Datblygu Economaidd yng ngogledd Cymru?
Rhodri Morgan The First Minister spoken in English p. 28
Rhodri Morgan Prif Weinidog Cymru siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 28
There was a diary clash but that became academic, because at that time I was indisposed.
Nid oedd fy nyddiadur yn caniatáu, ond nid oedd hynny’n berthnasol yn y pen draw gan nad oeddwn ar gael bryd hynny beth bynnag.
Blaenoriaethau Deddfwriaeth Sylfaenol
Priorities for Primary Legislation
What discussions has the First Minister had with the Secretary of State for Wales about the Assembly’s priorities for primary legislation in the next parliamentary session? (OAQ14027)
Pa drafodaethau y mae Prif Weinidog Cymru wedi’u cael gydag Ysgrifennydd Gwladol Cymru ynghylch blaenoriaethau’r Cynulliad ar gyfer deddfwriaeth sylfaenol yn y sesiwn Seneddol nesaf? (OAQ14027)
Rhodri Morgan The First Minister spoken in English p. 28
Rhodri Morgan Prif Weinidog Cymru siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 28
Thank you, Peter, that is a far more interesting question than Alun Cairns’s pathetic attempt to drag that lame duck in again.
Diolch, Peter, mae hynny’n gwestiwn llawer mwy diddorol nag ymdrech wan Alun Cairns i godi’r hen stori honno eto.
In accordance with Standing Orders, we will need to present our proposals for primary legislation for inclusion in the next Queen’s Speech by 31 March 2002. That process is underway. I have asked my Cabinet colleagues to begin discussions in their divisions to identify where proposals for primary legislation might be made. Those proposals will be particularly interesting because they will cover the year from November 2002 to November 2003, which is when the next Assembly elections will be held.
Yn unol â’r Rheolau Sefydlog, bydd angen inni gyflwyno ein cynigion ar gyfer deddfwriaeth sylfaenol i’w chynnwys yn Araith nesaf y Frenhines erbyn 31 Mawrth 2002. Mae’r broses honno’n mynd rhagddi. Gofynnais i’m cyd-Aelodau yn y Cabinet gychwyn trafodaethau yn eu his-adrannau i nodi lle y gellid gwneud cynigion ar gyfer deddfwriaeth sylfaenol. Bydd y cynigion hynny’n arbennig o ddiddorol oherwydd y byddant yn cwmpasu’r flwyddyn o fis Tachwedd 2002 i fis Tachwedd 2003, sef pryd y cynhelir etholiadau nesaf y Cynulliad.
Will you consider, as a high priority in those proposals, making St David’s Day a public bank holiday?
A ystyriwch, fel blaenoriaeth uchel yn y cynigion hynny, wneud Dydd Gŵyl Ddewi yn ŵyl y banc?
Rhodri Morgan The First Minister spoken in English p. 29
Rhodri Morgan Prif Weinidog Cymru siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 29
That continues to be a high priority. It is likely to be resubmitted for next year.
Mae hynny’n flaenoriaeth uchel o hyd. Mae’n debygol y caiff ei ailgyflwyno ar gyfer y flwyddyn nesaf.
Yr wyf yn ymdrin â nifer o achosion lle mae perchnogion tai prydles yn ceisio prynu rhyddfreintiau am bris teg o dan y deddfau diwygio prydles. A ydych wedi trafod ag Ysgrifennydd Gwladol Cymru y posibilrwydd iddo gyflwyno gwelliannau i’r Mesur Cydradd-ddaliad a Diwygio Prydlesi—a ddaw yn ôl gerbron Tŷ’r Cyffredin cyn hir—gyda’r bwriad o wneud diwygiadau pellach? Os nad ydych, a fyddech yn fodlon trafod y mater gydag ef?
I am dealing with a number of cases where owners of leasehold housing are trying to buy freeholds for a fair price under the leasehold reform acts. Have you discussed with the Secretary of State for Wales the possibility of his proposing amendments to the Commonhold and Leasehold Reform Bill—which will come back before the House of Commons soon—with the intention of further reforming it? If not, are you willing to discuss the matter with him?
Rhodri Morgan Prif Weinidog Cymru siaradwyd yn Gymraeg t. 29
Rhodri Morgan The First Minister spoken in Welsh p. 29
Cymeraf yn ganiataol eich bod yn sôn am y sesiwn ddeddfu nesaf, ac nid yr un bresennol. I aralleirio eich cwestiwn, os na allwn berswadio’r Gweinidog â chyfrifoldeb yn San Steffan i dderbyn gwelliannau gan Aelodau Seneddol i’r Mesur presennol yn diwygio cyfraith prydlesi, a fyddai modd cynnwys y diwygiadau fel Mesur yn Araith y Frenhines yn 2002?
I take it that you refer to the next, rather than the current legislative session. To reword your question, if we cannot persuade the Minister responsible in Westminster to accept amendments proposed to the leasehold reform Bill by Members of Parliament, could the reforms be included as a Bill in the 2002 Queen’s Speech?
Y mae unrhyw blaid neu Aelod o’r Cynulliad yn rhydd i gyflwyno cynigion, fel y gallwn benderfynu ar ein blaenoriaethau dros y pedwar mis nesaf, a chwblhau ein proses gynigion erbyn diwedd mis Mawrth 2002.
Any party or Assembly Member is free to make proposals, so that we can decide on our priorities over the next four months, and complete our proposal process by the end of March 2002.
Next year, 7,000 people, primarily from the disadvantaged sections of society in Wales, will die from smoking-related diseases, including cancers. I suggest to the Cabinet that measures to cut this death toll be included in the next Queen’s Speech.
Y flwyddyn nesaf, bydd 7,000 o bobl, yn bennaf o rannau difreintiedig o’r gymdeithas yng Nghymru, yn marw o afiechydon sy’n gysylltiedig ag ysmygu, yn cynnwys canserau. Awgrymaf i’r Cabinet y dylid cynnwys mesurau i ostwng nifer y marwolaethau yn Araith nesaf y Frenhines.
Rhodri Morgan The First Minister spoken in English p. 29
Rhodri Morgan Prif Weinidog Cymru siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 29
It is difficult to imagine that there could be Welsh-only legislation on the matter, but I am willing to consider that. We should solicit bids from other political parties and ordinary Assembly Members, as well as outside bodies, for ideas on legislation, whether it relates to England or Wales separately, or to both. I would love to see a ban on tobacco advertising. However, it is a matter of speculation as to whether that is a matter for the UK, Wales, or, more likely, England and Wales to decide. The issue is a high priority for me, and even more so for Jane Hutt as the Minister for Health and Social Services.
Mae’n anodd dychmygu y gellid cael deddfwriaeth ar gyfer Cymru’n unig ar y mater, ond yr wyf yn fodlon ystyried hynny. Dylem ofyn i bleidiau gwleidyddol eraill ac Aelodau’r Cynulliad yn gyffredinol, yn ogystal â chyrff allanol, am syniadau ar ddeddfwriaeth, pa un a yw’n ymwneud â Chymru neu Loegr ar wahân, neu’r ddau. Byddwn wrth fy modd yn gweld gwahardd hysbysebu tybaco. Fodd bynnag, mae’n fater o ddyfalu a yw’n fater i’r DU, Cymru, neu, yn fwy tebygol, i Gymru a Lloegr benderfynu arno. Mae’r mater yn flaenoriaeth uchel i mi, ac yn uwch eto i Jane Hutt fel y Gweinidog dros Iechyd a Gwasanaethau Cymdeithasol.
Datganiad Busnes
Business Statement
Andrew Davies The Minister for Assembly Business spoken in English p. 30
Andrew Davies Y Trefnydd siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 30
Before I turn to the business statement for the next three weeks, I inform Members that this week’s business is as programmed, with the exception of a motion to approve the amendment to the Presiding Officer’s budget on Thursday. I will propose a procedural motion to bring that motion forward on that day.
Cyn imi droi at y datganiad busnes ar gyfer y tair wythnos nesaf, hysbysaf yr Aelodau bod busnes yr wythnos hon fel y trefnwyd, ac eithrio cynnig i gymeradwyo’r gwelliant i gyllideb y Llywydd ddydd Iau. Byddaf yn cynnig cynnig trefniadol i gyflwyno’r cynnig hwnnw ar y diwrnod hwnnw.
At this morning’s meeting, the Business Committee agreed the business for the next three weeks, as shown on the Chamberweb under supporting documents. I agreed to the request made in the Business Committee to allocate time for the debate scheduled on 27 November on the NHS reforms. Members will wish to note that I have therefore moved the debate on the quinquennial review of the National Museums and Galleries of Wales to 29 November, to accommodate the debate on NHS structures, which will last an hour and a half.
Yn y cyfarfod y bore yma, cytunodd y Pwyllgor Busnes ar y busnes ar gyfer y tair wythnos nesaf, fel y dangosir ar we’r Siambr o dan ddogfennau ategol. Cytunais i’r cais a wnaed yn y Pwyllgor Busnes i neilltuo amser ar gyfer y ddadl a drefnwyd ar 27 Tachwedd ar ddiwygiadau’r NHS. Bydd yr Aelodau am nodi fy mod felly wedi symud y ddadl ar yr adolygiad pum-mlyneddol o Amgueddfeydd ac Orielau Cenedlaethol Cymru i 29 Tachwedd, er mwyn cynnwys y ddadl ar strwythurau’r NHS, a fydd yn parhau am awr a hanner.
Today, I will table motions on elections to Subject Committees for the Labour group for proposal next Tuesday. Members will also wish to be aware that at this morning’s Business Committee meeting, the Deputy Presiding Officer determined under Standing Order No. 22.5 that the following Orders need not be referred to a Subject Committee: the Countryside Access (Local Access Forums) (Wales) Regulations 2001; the Countryside Access (Draft Maps) (Wales) Regulations 2001; the Environmental Protection (Restriction on Use of Lead Shot) (Wales) Regulations 2001; the National Health Service (General Dental Services) (Amendment) (No. 3) (Wales) Regulations 2001; the Education (Individual Pupils’ Achievements) (Information) (Wales) (Amendment) Regulations 2002; and the Education (National Curriculum) (Assessment Arrangements for English, Welsh, Mathematics and Science) (Key Stage 1) (Wales) (Amendment) Order 2002. I will arrange for copies of the statement to be posted to the intranet and the internet.
Heddiw, byddaf yn cyflwyno cynigion ar etholiadau i Bwyllgorau Pwnc i’r grŵp Llafur ei gynnig ddydd Mawrth nesaf. Bydd yr Aelodau hefyd yn dymuno bod yn ymwybodol yng nghyfarfod y Pwyllgor Busnes y bore yma, i’r Dirprwy Lywydd nodi o dan Reol Sefydlog Rhif 22.5 nad oes angen cyfeirio’r Rheolau canlynol i Bwyllgor Pwnc: Rheoliadau Mynediad i Gefn Gwlad (Fforymau Mynediad Lleol) (Cymru) 2001; Rheoliadau Mynediad i Gefn Gwlad (Mapiau Drafft) (Cymru) 2001; Rheoliadau Diogelu’r Amgylchedd (Cyfyngiad ar Ddefnyddio Peledi Plwm) (Cymru) 2001; Rheoliadau’r Gwasanaeth Iechyd Gwladol (Gwasanaethau Deintyddol Cyffredinol) (Diwygio) (Rhif 3) (Cymru) 2001; Rheoliadau Addysg (Cyflawniadau Disgyblion Unigol) (Gwybodaeth) (Cymru) (Diwygio) 2002; a Gorchymyn Addysg (Cwricwlwm Cenedlaethol) (Trefniadau Asesu ar gyfer Saesneg, Cymraeg, Mathemateg a Gwyddoniaeth) (Cyfnod Allweddol 1) (Cymru) (Diwygio) 2002. Byddaf yn trefnu i gopïau o’r datganiad gael eu gosod ar y fewnrwyd a’r rhyngrwyd.
Dafydd Elis-Thomas The Presiding Officer spoken in English p. 31
Dafydd Elis-Thomas Y Llywydd siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 31
Before I call for comments on the business statement, to avoid doubt, Thursday’s motion is to approve the amendment to the Presiding Office budget for Assembly functions, not the Presiding Officer’s budget.
Cyn imi alw am sylwadau ar y datganiad busnes, er mwyn osgoi amheuaeth, cynnig dydd Iau yw cymeradwyo’r gwelliant i gyllideb y Llywydd ar gyfer swyddogaethau’r Cynulliad, nid cyllideb y Llywydd.
The Plaid Cymru group has considered the business statement and, as the Minister for Assembly Business has indicated that he will table the much-needed debate on the NHS structural changes for next week, we will not vote against it. However, it does not have our wholehearted support. I ask the Minister to allocate some Government time for a debate on the fact that we have now discovered that Westminster is passing significant amounts of subordinate legislation applying to Wales only on devolved matters, especially on health and education. We all thought that that is what the Assembly was created to do. I am sure that all Assembly Members will see the need for such a debate so that we can address this serious flaw in the current arrangements with Westminster. Will the Minister indicate today when he intends to hold that debate?
Mae grŵp Plaid Cymru wedi ystyried y datganiad busnes a, gan bod y Trefnydd wedi nodi y bydd yn cyflwyno’r ddadl y mae angen mawr amdani ar newidiadau strwythurol yr NHS ar gyfer yr wythnos nesaf, ni fyddwn yn pleidleisio yn ei erbyn. Fodd bynnag, nid ydym yn ei gefnogi’n llawn. Gofynnaf i’r Gweinidog neilltuo rhywfaint o amser y Llywodraeth ar gyfer dadl ar y ffaith ein bod bellach wedi darganfod bod San Steffan yn pasio llawer iawn o is-ddeddfwriaeth sy’n ymwneud â Chymru’n unig ar faterion a ddatganolwyd, yn enwedig ar iechyd ac addysg. Yr oedd pob un ohonom o’r farn mai dyna oedd diben creu’r Cynulliad. Yr wyf yn siŵr y bydd pob Aelod o’r Cynulliad yn gweld yr angen am ddadl o’r fath fel y gallwn fynd i’r afael â’r diffyg difrifol hwn yn y trefniadau presennol gyda San Steffan. A ddywed y Gweinidog heddiw pryd y bwriada gynnal y ddadl honno?
On behalf of the Conservative group, I thank the Minister for Assembly Business for extending the time allocated for the debate on the NHS structural reforms from one hour to an hour and a half. As I indicated this morning, I am still concerned about the amount of business tabled for Tuesday 27 November. I know that you have made some changes but I ask the Government to ensure that we protect the hour and a half for the NHS debate. The forward look shows that we are due to discuss and vote on several issues, some of which could take considerably more time than the Minister has anticipated.
Ar ran grŵp y Ceidwadwyr, hoffwn ddiolch i’r Trefnydd am ymestyn yr amser a neilltuir ar gyfer y ddadl ar ddiwygiadau strwythurol yr NHS o awr i awr a hanner. Fel y nodais y bore yma, yr wyf yn bryderus o hyd ynghylch swm y busnes a gyflwynwyd ar gyfer dydd Mawrth 27 Tachwedd. Gwn eich bod wedi gwneud rhai newidiadau ond gofynnaf i’r Llywodraeth sicrhau ein bod yn gwneud yn siŵr bod gennym awr a hanner ar gyfer dadl yr NHS. Dengys y rhagolwg ei bod yn bryd inni drafod a phleidleisio ar sawl mater, a gallai rhai o’r rhain gymryd cryn dipyn mwy o amser nag y rhagwelwyd gan y Gweinidog.
I will consider and consult with colleagues on any requests for tabling debates made through the normal channels. We may be able to discuss that in the Business Committee next week. On Jonathan’s point, I realise that there is a great deal of business for 27 November and 29 November and for succeeding weeks. We will, in co-operation with the Presiding Officer, try to ensure that business is carried through. I reiterate that it is incumbent on all Members to ensure that time available for business in Plenary is used properly and not wasted.
Byddaf yn ystyried ac yn ymgynghori â’m cyd-Aelodau ar unrhyw geisiadau ar gyfer cyflwyno dadleuon a gyflwynir drwy’r sianelau arferol. Efallai y gallwn drafod hynny yn y Pwyllgor Busnes yr wythnos nesaf. Ar bwynt Jonathan, sylweddolaf fod llawer iawn o fusnes ar gyfer 27 Tachwedd a 29 Tachwedd a’r wythnosau canlynol. Byddwn, mewn cydweithrediad â’r Llywydd, yn ceisio sicrhau y caiff busnes ei gyflawni. Ailadroddaf ei bod yn ddyletswydd ar bob Aelod i sicrhau y defnyddir yr amser sydd ar gael ar gyfer busnes mewn Cyfarfodydd Llawn yn briodol ac na chaiff ei wastraffu.
Pwyntiau o Drefn
Points of Order
Point of order. I raise this under Standing Order No. 6.8. Is it in keeping with this Standing Order that, on Thursday last, when there was plenty of spare time in Plenary, a statement was made to the press rather than to the Assembly? I refer to the Minister for Finance, Local Government and Communities’ statement on the local government revenue settlement. Releasing it to the press gave no opportunity for the Assembly to scrutinise the statement. When there is spare Plenary time, should not statements be made to the Assembly before being made to the press?
Pwynt o drefn. Codaf hwn o dan Reol Sefydlog Rhif 6.8. A yw’n cyd-fynd â’r Rheol Sefydlog hon, ddydd Iau diwethaf, pan oedd digon o amser dros ben yn y Cyfarfod Llawn, y gwnaed datganiad i’r wasg yn hytrach nag i’r Cynulliad? Cyfeiriaf at ddatganiad y Gweinidog dros Gyllid, Llywodraeth Leol a Chymunedau ar y setliad refeniw llywodraeth leol. Oherwydd iddo gael ei ryddhau i’r wasg ni chafodd y Cynulliad gyfle i graffu ar y datganiad. Pan fydd amser dros ben mewn Cyfarfodydd Llawn, oni ddylid gwneud datganiadau i’r Cynulliad cyn eu gwneud i’r wasg?
Dafydd Elis-Thomas The Presiding Officer spoken in English p. 32
Dafydd Elis-Thomas Y Llywydd siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 32
Unfortunately, I am not responsible as to whether there is spare time in the Assembly. I wish I was. [Laughter.] I withdraw that remark.
Yn anffodus, nid fi sy’n gyfrifol am ba un a oes amser dros ben yn y Cynulliad ai peidio. Hoffwn petawn. [Chwerthin.] Tynnaf y sylw hwnnw yn ôl.
The timing of business is a matter for the Business Committee. As regards statements, Ministers can issue press statements on behalf of the Government at any time and in whichever way they see fit. Statements made to the Assembly provide an opportunity for Members to question those statements, which I encourage at all times. However, the issuing of Government press statements is a matter for Ministers.
Mater i’r Pwyllgor Busnes yw amseru’r busnes. O safbwynt datganiadau, gall Gweinidogion gyflwyno datganiadau i’r wasg ar ran y Llywodraeth unrhyw bryd ac ym mha bynnag fodd y dymunant. Mae datganiadau a wneir i’r Cynulliad yn rhoi cyfle i’r Aelodau gwestiynu’r datganiadau hynny, ac anogaf hyn bob amser. Fodd bynnag, mater i Weinidogion yw cyflwyno datganiadau’r Llywodraeth i’r wasg.
Pwynt o drefn. Codaf hyn o dan Reol Sefydlog Rhif 6.31. Fel y gwyddoch, gwneuthum gais am ganiatâd i ofyn cwestiwn brys ar golli swyddi yng ngwaith alwminiwm Dolgarrog. Gwneuthum hynny ar sail y caniatâd a dderbyniodd fy nghyd-Aelod, Rosemary Butler, pan y cafwyd bygythiad tebyg yng ngwaith prosesu Dairy Crest yn ei hetholaeth hi. Nid wyf yn cwestiynu eich penderfyniad yn hynny o beth, ond a wnewch chi ystyried yr elfen genedlaethol mewn materion o bwys cenedlaethol. Os caiff swyddi eu colli mewn un gymuned—
Point of order. I raise this under Standing Order No. 6.31. As you know, I requested permission to ask an urgent question on job losses at the Dolgarrog aluminium works. I did so because my colleague, Rosemary Butler, was allowed to ask an urgent question when the Dairy Crest processing plant in her constituency faced a similar threat. I do not question your ruling in that respect, but will you consider the national aspect of matters that are of national importance. If jobs are lost in one community—
Dafydd Elis-Thomas Y Llywydd siaradwyd yn Gymraeg t. 33
Dafydd Elis-Thomas The Presiding Officer spoken in Welsh p. 33
Trefn. Araith yw hon, nid pwynt o drefn.
Order. This is a speech, not a point of order.
Mae hyn yn bwysig.
This is important.
Dafydd Elis-Thomas Y Llywydd siaradwyd yn Gymraeg t. 33
Dafydd Elis-Thomas The Presiding Officer spoken in Welsh p. 33
Yr ydych wedi cael cyfle i godi pwynt o drefn ac ymatebaf i hwnnw. Ni chaniateir i Aelodau wneud araith wrth godi pwynt o drefn. I ateb eich pwynt o drefn, derbyniais eich cais neithiwr, ynghyd â chais arall am gwestiwn brys ar y mater dan sylw. Gan fod hyn yn effeithio’n uniongyrchol ar etholaeth Meirionnydd Nant Conwy, dirprwyais y penderfyniad ar y cwestiwn brys i’r Dirprwy Lywydd, a gwnaeth y penderfyniad hwnnw heddiw. Yn sgîl hynny, trefnais, drwy gytundeb â’r Prif Weinidog, y byddai cwestiwn estynedig ar swyddi yn cael ei ofyn er mwyn trafod y mater hwn. Felly cafwyd chwe munud yn ystod cwestiynau llafar heddiw i drafod y mater, sef tua’r un faint o amser ag y byddai cwestiwn brys wedi ei ganiatáu.
You have had an opportunity to raise a point of order, to which I will respond. Members are not permitted to make speeches when raising points of order. To answer your point of order, I received your request last night, along with another request for an urgent question on this matter. As this directly affects the constituency of Meirionnydd Nant Conwy, I delegated the decision on the urgent question to the Deputy Presiding Officer, who made that decision today. Following that, I arranged, with the First Minister’s consent, for an extended question on jobs in order to discuss this matter. Therefore, Members had six minutes to discuss this matter during today’s oral questions, which is almost as much time as an urgent question would have provided.
Ymhellach i’r pwynt o drefn hwnnw—
Further to that point of order—
Dafydd Elis-Thomas Y Llywydd siaradwyd yn Gymraeg t. 33
Dafydd Elis-Thomas The Presiding Officer spoken in Welsh p. 33
Trefn. Ni chredaf fod unrhyw beth ymhellach i hyn.
Order. I do not think that there is anything further to this.
Pwynt o drefn.
Point of order.
Dafydd Elis-Thomas Y Llywydd siaradwyd yn Gymraeg t. 33
Dafydd Elis-Thomas The Presiding Officer spoken in Welsh p. 33
A yw hwn yn bwynt o drefn newydd?
Is this a new point of order?
Gall cyfuniad o ddigwyddiadau lleol droi yn fater cenedlaethol—
A combination of local events can turn into a national matter—
Dafydd Elis-Thomas Y Llywydd siaradwyd yn Gymraeg t. 34
Dafydd Elis-Thomas The Presiding Officer spoken in Welsh p. 34
Trefn. Nid pwynt o drefn yw hynny. Dadl ydyw.
Order. That is not a point of order. It is an argument.
Further to this point of order, the Dairy Crest restructuring covered the whole of Wales. There were losses in my constituency. It was not just a one constituency issue.
Ymhellach i’r pwynt hwn o drefn, yr oedd ailstrwythuro Dairy Crest yn cwmpasu Cymru gyfan. Cafwyd colledion yn fy etholaeth i. Nid mater ar gyfer un etholaeth ydoedd.
Point of order. I raise this under Standing Order No. 5.3, of which I have given you and the Minister for Assembly Business prior notice. The Minister for Assembly Business may have inadvertently misled the Assembly last week when he responded to questions on the business statement. He was asked why statements, rather than debates, were being tabled. He referred to the statement on the international situation and explained why there was no debate on that matter. He said:
Pwynt o drefn. Codaf hwn o dan Reol Sefydlog Rhif 5.3, y rhoddais rybudd ymlaen llaw ohono i chi a’r Trefnydd. Efallai i’r Trefnydd gamarwain y Cynulliad yn ddamweiniol yr wythnos diwethaf pan ymatebodd i gwestiynau ar y datganiad busnes. Gofynnwyd iddo pam mai datganiadau, yn hytrach na dadleuon, oedd yn cael eu cyflwyno. Cyfeiriodd at y datganiad ar y sefyllfa ryngwladol ac esboniodd pam nad oedd dadl ar y mater hwnnw. Dywedodd:
‘Plaid Cymru and the Conservatives could not agree on the wording.’
‘Ni allai Plaid Cymru a’r Ceidwadwyr gytuno ar y geiriad.’
Would the Minister for Assembly Business reflect on those words? Plaid Cymru did agree the wording of that motion.
A wnaiff y Trefnydd ailystyried ar y geiriad hynny? Cytunodd Plaid Cymru ar eiriad y cynnig hwnnw.
Dafydd Elis-Thomas The Presiding Officer spoken in English p. 34
Dafydd Elis-Thomas Y Llywydd siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 34
What the Plaid Cymru group does or does not do is not a matter for me. The Minister for Assembly Business has heard what has been said.
Nid mater i mi yw’r hyn mae grŵp Plaid Cymru yn ei wneud neu’n peidio â’i wneud. Mae’r Trefnydd wedi clywed yr hyn a ddywedwyd.
Andrew Davies The Minister for Assembly Business spoken in English p. 34
Andrew Davies Y Trefnydd siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 34
Further to that point of order, I am more than happy to clarify the position. As I said last week during questions on the business statement, there was a failure to agree on the wording of a motion. To give some background on this, at a meeting of the party leaders it was agreed that a suitable wording would be attempted, and if the wording could not be agreed, a statement would be made by the First Minister. That is what transpired. I would like to draw Members’ attention to the fact that our inability to hold debates along the lines of an adjournment debate in the House of Commons was one problem that faced us. It was decided to proceed by means of a statement in the absence of agreement on the wording. I believe that all four parties were reconciled to that, but Ieuan’s party—Plaid Cymru—tried to propose a motion for urgent debate, and on which there had been no prior agreement. If Plaid Cymru wants me to table another debate on the international situation I will consider such a request as usual.
Ymhellach i’r pwynt o drefn hwnnw, yr wyf yn fwy na bodlon egluro’r sefyllfa. Fel y dywedais yr wythnos diwethaf yn ystod cwestiynau ar y datganiad busnes, yr oedd methiant i gytuno ar eiriad cynnig. Er mwyn rhoi rhywfaint o gefndir ar hyn, mewn cyfarfod o arweinwyr y pleidiau, cytunwyd y dylid ceisio cael geiriad addas, ac os na ellid cytuno ar y geiriad, y byddai Prif Weinidog Cymru yn gwneud datganiad. Dyna a ddigwyddodd. Hoffwn dynnu sylw’r Aelodau at y ffaith bod ein hanalluedd i gynnal dadleuon tebyg i ddadleuon gohirio Tŷ’r Cyffredin yn un broblem â’n hwynebodd. Penderfynwyd mynd yn ein blaen drwy gyfrwng datganiad yn absenoldeb cytundeb ar y geiriad. Credaf i’r pedair plaid fodloni ar hynny, ond ceisiodd plaid Ieuan—Plaid Cymru—gynnig cynnig am ddadl frys, na chytunwyd arno’n flaenorol. Os hoffai Plaid Cymru imi gyflwyno dadl arall ar y sefyllfa ryngwladol ystyriaf gais o’r fath fel arfer.
May I respond to that, Presiding Officer?
A gaf i ymateb i hynny, Lywydd?
Dafydd Elis-Thomas The Presiding Officer spoken in English p. 35
Dafydd Elis-Thomas Y Llywydd siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 35
Yes, but I will call the leader of the Welsh Conservatives first, then I will call you.
Cewch, ond galwaf ar arweinydd Ceidwadwyr Cymru i ddechrau, yna galwaf arnoch chi.
Further to that point of order, I will try to clarify the issue since it was raised previously. I believe that Jocelyn Davies spoke on this last week. There was debate on a draft motion. Three of the parties were happy with that draft motion. I was not happy. I wanted to give support—
Ymhellach i’r pwynt o drefn hwnnw, ceisiaf egluro’r mater oherwydd iddo gael ei godi’n flaenorol. Credaf i Jocelyn Davies siarad ar hyn yr wythnos diwethaf. Cafwyd dadl ar gynnig drafft. Yr oedd tair o’r pleidiau yn fodlon â’r cynnig drafft hwnnw. Nid oeddwn i’n fodlon. Yr oeddwn am gefnogi—
Ieuan Wyn Jones a gododd—
Ieuan Wyn Jones rose—
It is being indicated that perhaps one of the other parties was not happy. You can speak for yourself in a minute. I thought that the three other parties were happy with that draft motion.
Nodir efallai nad oedd un o’r pleidiau eraill yn fodlon. Cewch siarad drosoch eich hun yn y funud. Yr oeddwn o’r farn bod y tair plaid arall yn fodlon â’r cynnig drafft hwnnw.
I wanted to give support to our Government and to our Prime Minister. I indicated that if the Government of the National Assembly went ahead with that motion we would amend it. I was happy for that to happen. I did not stop that motion, I just indicated that it would not have our support. It was then a matter for the Government to decide that we could not go ahead with a debate on that matter. However, at no time did we suggest that others could not go ahead with that motion. Indeed, we would not have been in a position to stop it.
Yr oeddwn am gefnogi ein Llywodraeth a’n Prif Weinidog. Nodais os byddai Llywodraeth y Cynulliad Cenedlaethol yn mynd ymlaen â’r cynnig hwnnw y byddem yn ei ddiwygio. Yr oeddwn yn fodlon i hynny ddigwydd. Ni ateliais y cynnig hwnnw, dim ond nodi na fyddem yn ei gefnogi. Yna mater i’r Llywodraeth ydoedd i benderfynu na allem barhau â dadl ar y mater hwnnw. Fodd bynnag, ni wnaethom awgrymu na allai eraill barhau â’r cynnig hwnnw o gwbl. Yn wir, ni fyddem wedi bod mewn sefyllfa i’w atal.
Dafydd Elis-Thomas The Presiding Officer spoken in English p. 35
Dafydd Elis-Thomas Y Llywydd siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 35
I will call the leader of the opposition, then I will not allow this to continue, following the fine tradition established by my deputy last week.
Galwaf ar arweinydd yr wrthblaid, yna ni chaniatâf i hyn barhau, yn unol â’r traddodiad da a sefydlwyd gan fy nirprwy yr wythnos diwethaf.
Further to that point of order, it is vital that the correct information appears on record. On 12 October I was sent a copy of a draft motion by the Minister for Assembly Business. On the same day I replied that I was content with the wording of that motion.
Ymhellach i’r pwynt o drefn hwnnw, mae’n hanfodol bod y wybodaeth gywir yn cael ei gofnodi. Ar 12 Hydref derbyniais gopi o gynnig drafft gan y Trefnydd. Ar yr un diwrnod atebais fy mod yn fodlon â geiriad y cynnig hwnnw.
Point of order. I raise two related points of order arising from a recent advertisement for a vacancy on the board of an Assembly sponsored public body. The first point of order arises under the preamble to Standing Orders, under the section on interpretation. The advertisement twice refers to the Welsh Assembly rather than the National Assembly for Wales. The term ‘Welsh Assembly’ does not occur in the Government of Wales Act 1998 or in Standing Orders and is unacceptable to many Members as an alternative to the National Assembly for Wales.
Pwynt o drefn. Codaf ddau bwynt o drefn cysylltiedig sy’n deillio o hysbyseb diweddar am swydd wag ar fwrdd corff cyhoeddus a noddir gan y Cynulliad. Cyfyd y pwynt cyntaf o drefn o dan y rhagymadrodd i’r Rheolau Sefydlog, o dan yr adran ar ddehongli. Cyfeiria’r hysbyseb ddwywaith at y Cynulliad Cymreig yn hytrach na Chynulliad Cenedlaethol Cymru. Nid yw’r term ‘Cynulliad Cymreig’ yn ymddangos yn Neddf Llywodraeth Cymru 1998 nac yn y Rheolau Sefydlog ac mae’n annerbyniol i lawer o’r Aelodau fel enw amgen ar Gynulliad Cenedlaethol Cymru.
The second point arises under Standing Order No. 9.7 on the responsibilities of Committees. The advertisement declares that the ASPB has the role of advising the Government, but makes no reference to the ASPB’s role in advising and reporting to Committees in their policy development role. Given that this seems to be a deliberate omission, is it a declaration by the Government that it no longer considers the Committees to have a significant role in developing policy?
Cyfyd yr ail bwynt o dan Reol Sefydlog Rhif 9.7 ar gyfrifoldebau Pwyllgorau. Mae’r hysbyseb yn datgan bod gan y CCNC y rôl o roi cyngor i’r Llywodraeth, ond ni chyfeiria at rôl y CCNC o roi cyngor a chyflwyno adroddiadau i Bwyllgorau yn eu rôl datblygu polisïau. O ystyried yr ymddengys i hyn gael ei adael allan ar bwrpas, a yw hyn yn ddatganiad gan y Llywodraeth nad yw bellach yn ystyried bod gan y Pwyllgorau rôl sylweddol wrth ddatblygu polisïau?
Dafydd Elis-Thomas The Presiding Officer spoken in English p. 36
Dafydd Elis-Thomas Y Llywydd siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 36
As regards the use of terms, this body is called the National Assembly for Wales.
O ran defnyddio’r termau, Cynulliad Cenedlaethol Cymru yw enw’r corff hwn.
Andrew Davies The Minister for Assembly Business spoken in English p. 36
Andrew Davies Y Trefnydd siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 36
On Phil’s second point on Subject Committees, we have always been clear, as a party and as an administration, that the Committees have an important role both in policy development and in scrutinising our actions. That was the substance of our submission to the Assembly review of procedures. On the first point on nomenclature, most people in Wales—opinion polls and other evidence show this—use the term ‘Welsh Assembly’. We therefore used the term because that is what most people accept.
Ar ail bwynt Phil ar Bwyllgorau Pwnc, yr ydym wastad wedi bod yn glir, fel plaid ac fel gweinyddiaeth, bod gan y Pwyllgorau rôl bwysig wrth ddatblygu polisïau ac wrth graffu ar ein gweithredoedd. Dyna oedd sylwedd ein cyflwyniad i adolygiad y Cynulliad o’r gweithdrefnau. Ar y pwynt cyntaf ar enwau, mae’r rhan fwyaf o bobl yng Nghymru—yn ôl arolygon barn a thystiolaeth arall—yn defnyddio’r term ‘Cynulliad Cymreig’. Felly defnyddiwyd y term oherwydd mai dyna y mae’r rhan fwyaf o bobl yn ei dderbyn.
Ymhellach i’r pwynt o drefn hwnnw, a yw’r Trefnydd yn credu bod y term ‘Cynulliad Cymreig’ yn cael ei ddefnyddio yn Gymraeg?
Further to that point of order, does the Minister for Assembly Business think that the term ‘Cynulliad Cymreig’ is used in Welsh?
Dafydd Elis-Thomas Y Llywydd siaradwyd yn Gymraeg t. 37
Dafydd Elis-Thomas The Presiding Officer spoken in Welsh p. 37
Trefn. Ni chredaf fod diben inni gynnal trafodaeth ynglŷn â thermau a chyfieithiadau ar hyn o bryd. Fel y gŵyr Aelodau, mae’r adolygiad o weithdrefnau yn mynd rhagddo. Felly mae’r mater hwn yn cael ei drafod.
Order. I do not think that there is any point in holding a discussion on terms and translations at this time. As Members know, the review of procedure is ongoing. Therefore this matter is being discussed.
Ymhellach i’ch sylwadau pwysig, Lywydd, os yw’r mater hwn yn cael ei ystyried fel rhan o’r adolygiad, oni ddylid parhau i ddefnyddio’r termau cydnabyddedig yn y Ddeddf hyd nes y ceir unrhyw newid ffurfiol?
Further to your important comments, Presiding Officer, if this matter is being considered as part of the review, should not the recognised terms in the Act continue to be used until any formal change is made?
Dafydd Elis-Thomas Y Llywydd siaradwyd yn Gymraeg t. 37
Dafydd Elis-Thomas The Presiding Officer spoken in Welsh p. 37
Yn yr achos hwn, dylid defnyddio’r hyn sydd yn y Ddeddf bob amser. Dyna enw’r corff yn gyfreithiol. Ni fu unrhyw awgrym yn ystod yr adolygiad o weithdrefnau bod unrhyw newid o’r math a awgrywmwyd yn gynharach yn enw’r corff hwn.
In this case, that which is in the Act should be used at all times. That is the body’s legal title. There has been no suggestion during the review of procedures of any change of the kind suggested earlier to the name of this body.
Further to that point of order, do Phil Williams’s comments indicate that Plaid Cymru list Members are concerned about the future, given that they are trawling the jobs pages? [Laughter.]
Ymhellach i’r pwynt o drefn hwnnw, a yw sylwadau Phil Williams yn nodi bod Aelodau rhestr Plaid Cymru yn pryderu am y dyfodol, o ystyried eu bod yn pori drwy’r tudalennau swyddi? [Chwerthin.]
Ymhellach i’r pwynt o drefn hwnnw, o ran tryloywder—sydd yn nodweddiadol o’r Cynulliad—a wnaiff y Trefnydd ddatgelu canlyniadau bob pôl piniwn a gomisiynodd i ddarganfod bod y rhan fwyaf o bobl Cymru yn adnabod yr adeilad hwn fel y ‘Cynulliad Cymreig’?
Further to that point of order, for the sake of transparency—which is characteristic of the Assembly—will the Minister for Assembly Business reveal the results of every opinion poll that he commissioned to discover that the majority of the people of Wales recognise this building as the ‘Welsh Assembly’?
Dafydd Elis-Thomas Y Llywydd siaradwyd yn Gymraeg t. 37
Dafydd Elis-Thomas The Presiding Officer spoken in Welsh p. 37
Trefn. Nid cyfle i ofyn cwestiynau atodol i’r Trefnydd yw’r rhan hon o’r Cyfarfod Llawn. Mae’n gyfle i godi pwyntiau o drefn gwirioneddol.
Order. This part of the Plenary session is not an opportunity to ask supplementary questions to the Minister for Assembly Business. It is an opportunity to raise valid points of order.
Cynnig Cyfansawdd: Cymeradwyo Gorchmynion
Composite Motion: Approval of Orders
Andrew Davies The Minister for Assembly Business spoken in English p. 37
Andrew Davies Y Trefnydd siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 37
I propose that
Cynigiaf fod
Dafydd Elis-Thomas The Presiding Officer spoken in English p. 38
Dafydd Elis-Thomas Y Llywydd siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 38
Under Standing Order No. 22.25, this motion is not subject to debate.
O dan Reol Sefydlog Rhif 22.25, ni chynhelir dadl ar y cynnig hwn.
Cynnig cyfansawdd NDM838 Andrew Davies t. 38
Composite motion NDM838 Andrew Davies p. 38
DerbyniwydAdopted O blaidFor 46 YmatalAbstain 0 Yn erbynAgainst 0
Derbyniwyd y cynnig.
Motion carried.
Sut y pleidleisiodd yr AelodauHow Members voted
O blaidFor (46)
- Mick Bates
- Peter Black
- Nick Bourne
- Eleanor Burnham
- Rosemary Butler
- Alun Cairns
- Christine Chapman
- Andrew Davies
- David Davies
- Geraint Davies
- Glyn Davies
- Janet Davies
- Jocelyn Davies
- Ron Davies
- Sue Essex
- Delyth Evans
- Michael German
- Brian Gibbons
- William Graham
- John Griffiths
- Christine Gwyther
- Alison Halford
- Edwina Hart
- Jane Hutt
- Pauline Jarman
- Elin Jones
- Gareth Jones
- Ieuan Wyn Jones
- Peter Law
- David Lloyd
- Val Lloyd
- David Melding
- Tom Middlehurst
- Jonathan Morgan
- Rhodri Morgan
- Alun Pugh
- Jenny Randerson
- Rod Richards
- Peter Rogers
- Janet Ryder
- Karen Sinclair
- Gwenda Thomas
- Owen John Thomas
- Rhodri Glyn Thomas
- Dafydd Wigley
- Phil Williams
Daeth y Dirprwy Lywydd i’r Gadair am 3.05 p.m.
The Deputy Presiding Officer took the Chair at 3.05 p.m.
Digartrefedd
Homelessness
John Marek The Deputy Presiding Officer spoken in English p. 39
John Marek Y Dirprwy Lywydd siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 39
I have selected amendments 1, 2, 3 and 4 in the name of Jocelyn Davies, and amendments 5 and 6 in the name of Jonathan Morgan.
Yr wyf wedi dethol gwelliannau 1, 2, 3 a 4 yn enw Jocelyn Davies, a gwelliannau 5 a 6 yn enw Jonathan Morgan.
Edwina Hart The Minister for Finance, Local Government and Communities spoken in English p. 39
Edwina Hart Y Gweinidog dros Gyllid, Llywodraeth Leol a Chymunedau siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 39
I propose that
Cynigiaf fod
Edwina Hart The Minister for Finance, Local Government and Communities (continued) spoken in English p. 40
Edwina Hart Y Gweinidog dros Gyllid, Llywodraeth Leol a Chymunedau (parhad) siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 40
We all recognise that homelessness is one of the most dramatic and visible forms of social exclusion. The Assembly is committed to helping the homeless and vulnerable people of Wales. The Homelessness Commission was proposed under the terms of the partnership agreement, ‘Putting Wales First’. I asked Peter Black, the Deputy Minister for Local Government, to chair the commission. This motion, therefore, reflects the culmination of nine months work by many people, including Peter.
Cydnabyddwn oll fod digartrefedd yn un o’r mathau mwyaf dramatig a gweladwy o allgáu cymdeithasol. Mae’r Cynulliad wedi ymrwymo i helpu pobl ddigartref a diamddiffyn Cymru. Cynigiwyd y Comisiwn Digartrefedd yn nhermau’r cytundeb partneriaeth, ‘Rhoi Cymru’n Gyntaf’. Gofynnais i Peter Black, y Dirprwy Weinidog dros Lywodraeth Leol, gadeirio’r comisiwn. Felly mae’r cynnig hwn yn ffrwyth naw mis o waith gan lawer o bobl, gan gynnwys Peter.
The commission started work in January 2001 as a task and finish group. It included representatives from the Assembly, voluntary organisations, local government groups and practitioners from all over Wales. I place on record my thanks for the work of Assembly civil servants, who undertook most of the work in relation to the commission. We all agree that its report is excellent.
Dechreuodd y comisiwn ar ei waith ym mis Ionawr 2001 fel grŵp gorchwyl a gorffen. Yr oedd yn cynnwys cynrychiolwyr o’r Cynulliad, sefydliadau gwirfoddol, grwpiau llywodraeth leol ac ymarferwyr o bob rhan o Gymru. Hoffwn gofnodi fy niolch am waith gweision sifil y Cynulliad, a wnaeth y rhan fwyaf o’r gwaith mewn perthynas â’r comisiwn. Cytunwn oll fod ei adroddiad yn ardderchog.
I also take this opportunity to thank all others involved for their dedication and commitment, which has resulted in this comprehensive report which is before you for consideration. I also put on record my thanks to all those who contributed to the commission’s work. This has been an excellent example of the inclusive working which has become characteristic of the National Assembly’s approach to partnership with other organisations.
Hoffwn hefyd achub ar y cyfle hwn i ddiolch i bobl eraill a fu’n ymwneud â’r gwaith am eu hymroddiad a’u hymrwymiad, sydd wedi arwain at yr adroddiad cynhwysfawr hwn ger eich bron i’w ystyried. Hoffwn hefyd gofnodi fy niolch i bawb a gyfrannodd at waith y comisiwn. Bu’n enghraifft wych o gydweithio cynhwysol sydd wedi dod yn nodweddiadol o ymagwedd y Cynulliad Cenedlaethol tuag at bartneriaeth â sefydliadau eraill.
The commission met on nine occasions between January and August this year at different venues throughout Wales. During that period it considered a broad spectrum of issues relating to homelessness. The most important of these were: first, the need for multi-agency local homelessness strategies; secondly, the issue of prevention; and thirdly, the need to tackle the severe health problems faced by those without homes. The commissioners adopted an ‘open government’ policy which meant throwing the meetings open to the public. The agendas and all tabled papers were available on request.
Cyfarfu’r comisiwn naw gwaith rhwng Ionawr ac Awst eleni mewn lleoliadau gwahanol ledled Cymru. Yn ystod y cyfnod hwnnw, ystyriodd ystod eang o faterion sy’n gysylltiedig â digartrefedd. Y rhai pwysicaf o’r rhain oedd: yn gyntaf, yr angen am strategaethau digartrefedd lleol aml-asiantaeth; yn ail, mater atal digartrefedd; ac yn drydydd, yr angen i fynd i’r afael â’r problemau iechyd difrifol a wyneba pobl ddigartref. Mabwysiadodd y comisiynwyr bolisi ‘llywodraeth agored’ a olygai gwneud y cyfarfodydd yn agored i’r cyhoedd. Yr oedd yr agendâu a’r holl bapurau a gyflwynwyd ar gael ar gais.
The most important, practical aspect of information gathering was meeting people from homelessness projects throughout Wales, including young homeless from the Bays Project in Swansea and residents of a drug and alcohol rehabilitation unit in Bangor. Evidence was received from representatives of the Health Division, the Statistics Directorate, the Association of Directors of Social Services, local health groups, the National Probation Service and the Department for Work and Pensions. The commission was grateful for this evidence and the way in which it helped form the final report.
Yr agwedd bwysicaf, fwyaf ymarferol ar gasglu gwybodaeth oedd cyfarfod â phobl o brosiectau digartrefedd ledled Cymru, gan gynnwys pobl ifanc ddigartref o Brosiect Bays yn Abertawe a phreswylwyr uned adsefydlu cyffuriau ac alcohol ym Mangor. Cafwyd tystiolaeth gan gynrychiolwyr o’r Is-Adran Iechyd, y Gyfarwyddiaeth Ystadegau, Cymdeithas y Cyfarwyddwyr Gwasanaethau Cymdeithasol, grwpiau iechyd lleol, y Gwasanaeth Prawf Cenedlaethol a’r Adran Gwaith a Phensiynau. Yr oedd y comisiwn yn ddiolchgar am y dystiolaeth hon a’r cymorth a roddodd wrth lunio’r adroddiad terfynol.
Paul Bevan’s report, ‘Rough Sleeping in Wales’, which he produced while on secondment to the Welsh Office and then the National Assembly, was influential in the decision to set up the commission in the first place. Many of you will have read this report, or at least the summary, and will be aware of how useful it has been in developing the National Assembly’s policy on tackling rough sleeping.
Dylanwadodd adroddiad Paul Bevan, ‘Cysgu ar y Stryd yng Nghymru’, a luniwyd ganddo pan oedd ar secondiad i’r Swyddfa Gymreig ac wedyn y Cynulliad Cenedlaethol, ar y penderfyniad i sefydlu’r comisiwn yn y lle cyntaf. Bydd llawer ohonoch wedi darllen yr adroddiad hwn, neu o leiaf y crynodeb, a byddwch yn ymwybodol o ba mor ddefnyddiol ydoedd wrth ddatblygu polisi’r Cynulliad Cenedlaethol ynglŷn â mynd i’r afael â chysgu ar y stryd.
The National Assembly can rightly be proud of what it has already achieved in tackling homelessness. We have extended the priority categories and we have increased spending from £650,000 in 1998-99 to £4.86 million in 2002-03. This is a substantial increase. The commission’s report has taken this agenda a step further forward. However, there is still much to be done. Evidence received from the representatives of the Health Division, and other groups, enables us to see how much further work is required in this area.
Gall y Cynulliad Cenedlaethol, yn sicr, ymfalchïo yn yr hyn a gyflawnodd eisoes wrth fynd i’r afael â digartrefedd. Yr ydym wedi ymestyn y categorïau â blaenoriaeth ac wedi cynyddu’r gwariant o £650,000 yn 1998-99 i £4.86 miliwn yn 2002-03. Mae hynny yn gynnydd sylweddol. Drwy adroddiad y comisiwn mae’r agenda hon wedi cymryd cam pellach ymlaen. Fodd bynnag, mae llawer o waith i’w wneud o hyd. Mae’r dystiolaeth a roddwyd gan gynrychiolwyr o’r Is-adran Iechyd, a grwpiau eraill, yn fodd inni ganfod faint yn rhagor o waith sydd ei angen yn y maes hwn.
The report has been issued to all interested parties with an invitation to contribute further views. It has also been posted on the internet for public access. I received the report in August of this year, and the Local Government and Housing Committee considered it on 24 October. The Committee commended the report and forwarded it to this Plenary session for further consideration.
Anfonwyd yr adroddiad at bob parti â diddordeb gan eu gwahodd i gyfrannu syniadau pellach. Fe’i cyhoeddwyd hefyd ar y rhyngrwyd i’r cyhoedd gael cyfle i’w ddarllen. Daeth yr adroddiad i law ym mis Awst eleni, ac fe’i hystyriwyd gan y Pwyllgor Llywodraeth Leol a Thai ar 24 Hydref. Cymeradwyodd y Pwyllgor yr adroddiad gan ei gyflwyno i’r Cyfarfod Llawn hwn i’w ystyried ymhellach.
I am pleased to commend the report and the motion to the National Assembly for Wales.
Mae’n bleser gennyf argymhell yr adroddiad a’r cynnig i Gynulliad Cenedlaethol Cymru.
I propose the following amendments in the name of Jocelyn Davies. Amendment 1: at the end of point 2 delete ‘;’ and insert:
Cynigiaf y gwelliannau canlynol yn enw Jocelyn Davies. Gwelliant 1: ar ddiwedd pwynt 2 dileu ‘;’ a rhoi:
I propose amendment 2. Add new point 3 and renumber other points accordingly:
Cynigiaf welliant 2. Ychwanegu pwynt 3 newydd ac ailrifo’n unol â hynny:
I propose amendment 3. In existing point 3, delete all after ‘the report’, and insert:
Cynigiaf welliant 3. Ym mhwynt 3 ar hyn o bryd, dileu popeth ar ôl ‘yr adroddiad’, a rhoi:
I propose amendment 4. Add a new point at the end of the motion:
Cynigiaf welliant 4. Ychwanegu pwynt newydd ar ddiwedd y cynnig:
There is a perception that homelessness only exists in London and other large cities in England and Scotland. This report recognises that this problem does exist in Wales. In that respect, it is valuable. The commission also acknowledged the fact that the problem not only exists in Cardiff and the densely populated areas of south Wales, but that rough sleeping and homelessness are problems throughout Wales. As a result, we might have expected the report to prepare the background on which a strategy might develop, part of which would be to put in place the structures and support mechanisms to deal with homelessness. This report, as Edwina said, goes some way towards doing that, but there are still many gaps.
Mae canfyddiad mai dim ond yn Llundain a dinasoedd mawr eraill yn Lloegr a’r Alban y ceir digartrefedd. Mae’r adroddiad hwn yn cydnabod bod y broblem hon yn bodoli yng Nghymru hefyd. Yn hynny o beth, mae’n werthfawr. Cydnabu’r comisiwn y ffaith hefyd nad yng Nghaerdydd ac ardaloedd poblog iawn y de yn unig y cyfyd y broblem hon, ond bod problemau o ran cysgu ar y stryd a digartrefedd ym mhob rhan o Gymru. O ganlyniad, gallem fod wedi disgwyl i’r adroddiad osod y cefndir i’r ffordd y gellid datblygu strategaeth, gydag un rhan ohoni yn ymwneud â rhoi’r strwythurau a’r systemau cymorth ar waith i ymdrin â digartrefedd. Mae’r adroddiad hwn, fel y dywedodd Edwina, yn cymryd cam tuag at wneud hynny, ond mae llawer o fylchau o hyd.
It must be recognised that a few people choose to sleep rough, and that that lifestyle should be respected. However, Plaid Cymru does agree with the definition of homelessness contained in the report, and that it should encompass the hidden homeless.
Rhaid cydnabod bod nifer fach o bobl yn cysgu ar y stryd o ddewis, ac y dylid derbyn y dewis hwnnw. Fodd bynnag, cytuna Plaid Cymru â’r diffiniad o ddigartrefedd yn yr adroddiad, a’r ffaith y dylai gwmpasu digartrefedd cudd.
Homelessness is more than just a state of existence. It is usually the culmination of a series of events. Therefore, if adequate support can be developed, many cases of homelessness can be avoided. Authorities have a duty to provide advice and information, which is vital to prevent homelessness in the first place. However, there are examples of young people, especially, not knowing where to access that advice. We had a powerful presentation on youth homelessness by young people from Swansea only last week. Their testimony was that they did not know where to go to access advice or help. That is all the more worrying when some of them had come from care. People need to know what advice is available and where to access it. Does this report ensure that that will happen? Recommendations 27 and 28, which relate directly to those support mechanisms, propose the adoption of the recommendations in the Welsh housing advice audit, which in themselves are quite detailed. However, an analysis of the implementation costs is missing. It is fine to advocate the adoption of policies, but cash support is needed to make those aspirations a reality. The same support is needed to prevent homelessness re-occurring once a home has been found. A more detailed analysis of support structures with recommendations on best practice should have been forthcoming in this report. Only bond schemes are considered in any depth. That underlines one of the report’s weaknesses. There is no real analysis of the financial implications of some of these recommendations; no timescale for implementation. Some of the recommendations are so broad that they leave much work still to be done to produce a strategy. One reason for establishing this commission was to advise the Assembly on the setting of targets and outcomes. We question whether that has been achieved.
Nid cyflwr o fodolaeth yn unig yw digartrefedd. Fel arfer, arweiniodd cyfres o ddigwyddiadau ato. Felly, os gellir datblygu cymorth digonol, mae’n bosibl osgoi llawer o achosion o ddigartrefedd. Mae dyletswydd ar yr awdurdodau i roi cyngor a gwybodaeth, sydd yn hanfodol i atal digartrefedd yn y lle cyntaf. Fodd bynnag, ceir enghreifftiau lle nad yw pobl ifanc, yn arbennig, yn gwybod ble i droi am y cyngor hwnnw. Rhoddwyd cyflwyniad grymus ar ddigartrefedd ymhlith ieuenctid inni gan bobl ifanc o Abertawe dim ond yr wythnos diwethaf. Yn ôl eu tystiolaeth, ni wyddent ble i droi am gyngor neu gymorth. Mae hynny yn fwy difrifol byth o ystyried i’r rhai ohonynt fod yn blant a oedd yn derbyn gofal. Mae angen i bobl wybod pa gyngor sydd ar gael a ble i fynd i’w geisio. A yw’r adroddiad hwn yn sicrhau y bydd hynny yn digwydd? Mae argymhellion 27 a 28, sy’n ymwneud yn uniongyrchol â’r systemau cymorth hynny, yn cynnig y dylid mabwysiadu argymhellion yr archwiliad o gyngor ar dai yng Nghymru, sy’n argymhellion eithaf manwl. Fodd bynnag, nid oes dadansoddiad o’r costau gweithredu. Mae’n hawdd argymell y dylid mabwysiadu polisïau, ond mae angen cymorth ariannol i wireddu’r dyheadau hynny. Mae angen yr un cymorth i atal pobl rhag mynd yn ddigartref eto ar ôl iddynt gael cartref. Dylai’r adroddiad hwn fod wedi cynnwys dadansoddiad manylach o’r strwythurau cymorth ynghyd ag argymhellion ar arferion gorau. Dim ond cynlluniau bond a gaiff eu hystyried yn fanwl. Mae hynny yn tanlinellu un o wendidau’r adroddiad. Nid oes unrhyw ddadansoddiad gwirioneddol o oblygiadau ariannol rhai o’r argymhellion hyn; nid oes amserlen ar gyfer eu rhoi ar waith. Mae rhai o’r argymhellion mor gyffredinol fel y bydd angen gwneud llawer o waith o hyd i lunio strategaeth. Un o’r rhesymau dros sefydlu’r comisiwn hwn oedd y byddai’n rhoi cyngor i’r Cynulliad ar osod targedau a chanlyniadau. Ni chredwn fod hynny wedi ei gyflawni.
Homelessness must be tackled in three ways: prevention, housing those who are homeless, and support to prevent those placements from breaking down. To achieve this, there must be a higher level of inter-agency work. Therefore, any strategy that is produced must address those three points at all levels. The national strategy should, in turn, inform local strategies. It is interesting that quite detailed guidance has been developed for local strategies but not for the development of a national strategy.
Rhaid mynd i’r afael â digartrefedd mewn tair ffordd: atal digartrefedd, rhoi cartref i’r rhai sy’n ddigartref, a rhoi cymorth i atal y lleoliadau hynny rhag chwalu. Er mwyn cyflawni hyn, rhaid wrth fwy o gydweithio rhwng asiantaethau. Felly, rhaid i unrhyw strategaeth a luniwyd ymdrin â’r tri phwynt hynny ar bob lefel. Dylai’r strategaeth genedlaethol, yn ei thro, lywio strategaethau lleol. Mae’n ddiddorol nodi i ganllawiau eithaf manwl gael eu datblygu ar gyfer strategaethau lleol ond nid ar gyfer datblygu strategaeth genedlaethol.
The Assembly is also dependent on other levels of government to achieve its aims, and so, recommendations must be made to them. One of those might be to change the benefit system, for example, to abolish the single room rent restriction thereby enabling single people under 25 to claim housing benefit for self-contained rather than shared accommodation. We should also ensure that we do not require local authorities to produce just another document. Their strategies should be relevant and show clearly how they would be implemented and monitored. Someone with no previous knowledge of the problems of homelessness should be able to pick up the document and see clearly how the council is tackling homelessness in its area. The same should apply to the National Assembly’s strategy. The Assembly’s strategy should also show this inter-relation between strategies, forming an integral part of the complicated map of interacting strategies and plans that authorities have been asked to draw up. Given that, I would have liked to have seen recommendation 6 made stronger. Hopefully, amendments 1 and 2 will deal with that.
Mae’r Cynulliad hefyd yn dibynnu ar haenau eraill o lywodraeth i gyflawni ei nodau, ac felly, rhaid gwneud argymhellion iddynt hwy. Un argymhelliad o bosibl fyddai newid y system budd-dal, er enghraifft, er mwyn diddymu’r cyfyngiad ar rent am ystafell sengl a thrwy hynny ganiatáu pobl sengl o dan 25 i hawlio budd-dal tai ar gyfer llety hunangynhwysol yn hytrach na llety a rennir. Rhaid inni sicrhau hefyd nad gofyn i’r awdurdodau lleol gynhyrchu dogfen arall yn unig yr ydym. Dylai eu strategaethau fod yn berthnasol gan ddangos yn glir sut y byddent yn cael eu gweithredu a’u monitro. Dylai rhywun nad yw gwybod dim am broblemau digartrefedd allu edrych ar y ddogfen a gweld yn glir y ffordd y mae’r cyngor yn mynd i’r afael â digartrefedd yn ei ardal. Dylai hynny fod yn berthnasol i strategaeth y Cynulliad Cenedlaethol hefyd. Dylai strategaeth y Cynulliad hefyd ddangos y gydberthynas hon rhwng strategaethau, gan ddod yn rhan annatod o’r cyfanwaith cymhleth o strategaethau a chynlluniau cydgysylltiedig y gofynnwyd i’r awdurdodau eu llunio. O ystyried hynny, hoffwn pe bai argymhelliad 6 wedi ei gryfhau. Gobeithiaf y bydd gwelliannau 1 a 2 yn ymdrin â hynny.
Recommendation 7 seeks to establish a standing commission to monitor development of homelessness policies. Why do we need a new group for this when the consultative forum on housing already exists? That group was convened to help develop the housing strategy. The Homelessness Commission consisted of representatives from different groups. Plaid Cymru would like to see that joint ownership extended to the development of the strategy.
Nod argymhelliad 7 yw sefydlu comisiwn sefydlog i fonitro datblygiad polisïau digartrefedd. Pam mae angen grŵp newydd arnom ar gyfer hyn pan fo fforwm ymgynghorol ar dai yn bodoli eisoes? Sefydlwyd y grŵp hwnnw i ddatblygu’r strategaeth dai. Yr oedd y Comisiwn Digartrefedd yn cynnwys cynrychiolwyr o wahanol grwpiau. Hoffai Plaid Cymru weld y gydberchenogaeth honno yn cael ei hymestyn i’r broses o ddatblygu’r strategaeth.
John Marek The Deputy Presiding Officer spoken in English p. 45
John Marek Y Dirprwy Lywydd siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 45
Order. As you are proposing amendments you may deliver a few sentences to draw to a close. However, we must endeavour to keep within the five-minute limit.
Trefn. Gan eich bod yn cynnig gwelliannau, cewch gyflwyno ychydig o frawddegau i gloi. Fodd bynnag, rhaid inni geisio cadw at y terfyn pum munud.
The joint ownership of the housing strategy was lost at the recommendation stage. Amendment 3 states our wish that joint ownership be carried forward.
Collwyd cydberchenogaeth y strategaeth dai wrth ymdrin â’r argymhellion. Noda gwelliant 3 ein dymuniad i sicrhau cydberchenogaeth.
Many funding implications in this strategy have not been costed. There are implications for voluntary organisations. Amendment 4 will hopefully cover those. I urge the Assembly to support all the recommendations.
Mae llawer o’r goblygiadau ariannol yn y strategaeth hon heb eu costio. Bydd goblygiadau i’r mudiadau gwirfoddol. Gobeithiaf y bydd gwelliant 4 yn ymdrin â’r rheini. Anogaf y Cynulliad i gefnogi pob un o’r argymhellion.
I propose the following amendments in the name of Jonathan Morgan. Amendment 5: add a new point at the end of the motion:
Cynigiaf y gwelliannau canlynol yn enw Jonathan Morgan. Gwelliant 5: ychwanegu pwynt newydd ar ddiwedd y cynnig:
William Graham (continued) spoken in English p. 45
William Graham (parhad) siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 45
I propose amendment 6. Add a new point at the end of the motion:
Cynigiaf welliant 6. Ychwanegu pwynt newydd ar ddiwedd y cynnig:
William Graham (continued) spoken in English p. 45
William Graham (parhad) siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 45
We appreciate and recognise the efforts of all those involved in the preparation and delivery of this report by the Homelessness Commission. It provides a definition of homelessness and outlines policy initiatives to consider all the elements of this grave social problem. However, though we welcome the report, we have specific reservations, which are addressed in amendments 5 and 6.
Yr ydym yn gwerthfawrogi ac yn cydnabod ymdrechion pawb a gymerodd ran yn y gwaith o baratoi a chyflwyno’r adroddiad hwn gan y Comisiwn Digartrefedd. Mae’n rhoi diffiniad o ddigartrefedd ac yn nodi mentrau polisi sy’n ystyried pob elfen o’r broblem gymdeithasol ddifrifol hon. Fodd bynnag, er y croesawn yr adroddiad, mae gennym rai amheuon pendodol, yr ymdrinnir â hwy yng ngwelliannau 5 a 6.
The Assembly administration has produced a whole menagerie of policies based around the community, such as ‘Communities First’ and ‘Community Regeneration’. The problem with these community policies is that, by their nature, they overlap and cover aspects of the same problems. Their execution and development therefore may become blurred. Often, the same personnel are responsible for the development of these policies. Homelessness is a prime example of one issue that straddles a number of these policy developments. It will therefore be necessary to identify the separate objectives of these policies if they are to be beneficial to the community.
Mae gweinyddiaeth y Cynulliad wedi llunio polisïau lu yn seiliedig ar y gymuned, megis ‘Rhoi Cymunedau’n Gyntaf’; ac ‘Adfywio Cymunedau’. Y drwg gyda’r polisïau cymunedol hyn yw eu bod, o ran natur, yn gorgyffwrdd â’i gilydd ac yn cwmpasu agweddau ar yr un problemau. Felly mae’n bosibl y cânt eu gweithredu a’u datblygu mewn ffordd aneglur. Yn aml, yr un personél sy’n gyfrifol am ddatblygu’r polisïau hyn. Mae digartrefedd yn enghraifft wych o fater sydd ynghlwm wrth ddatblygu nifer o’r polisïau hyn. Felly bydd angen nodi amcanion gwahanol y polisïau hyn er mwyn sicrhau eu bod o fudd i’r gymuned.
It is because of this that we note the conclusions of research by Scottish Homes: we should identify objectives that are actionable and measurable; develop monitoring and evaluating systems capable of measuring the impact of local strategy; and ensure the participation of committed people. These highlight the need for separation, for clear channels of accountability and for effective systems to measure the progress made in solving the problem. We need to ensure that these systems are in place if we are to make an impact on the social problems we seek to overcome.
Am y rheswm hwnnw nodwn gasgliadau ymchwil Scottish Homes: dylem nodi amcanion y gellir eu rhoi ar waith a’u mesur; datblygu systemau monitro a gwerthuso sy’n gallu mesur effaith y strategaeth leol; a sicrhau cyfranogiad pobl ymrwymedig. Mae’r rhain yn amlygu’r angen am wahanu dyletswyddau, am atebolrwydd clir ac am systemau effeithiol sy’n mesur y cynnydd a wneir wrth ddatrys y broblem. Mae angen inni sicrhau bod y systemau hynny ar waith er mwyn ymdrin â’r problemau cymdeithasol yr ydym yn ceisio eu goresgyn.
It is surprising that Dr Elaine Mullan highlights in appendix 1 to the Homelessness Commission’s report, that:
Mae braidd yn rhyfedd bod Dr Elaine Mullan yn nodi yn atodiad 1 adroddiad y Comisiwn Digartrefedd:
‘There has been much pioneering work done among the voluntary sector in Wales. In many ways there has been more innovation and good practice, particularly in relation to vulnerable young people, than in any other part of the UK.’
However, she also states that:
Fodd bynnag, noda hefyd:
‘Unfortunately, I had neither the time nor the resources to interview those working in the statutory and voluntary homelessness sector.’
The Homelessness Commission identifies one factor that must be addressed: namely the setting of targets and policy objectives that cannot be achieved within the envisaged timescales. For example, ‘Betterwales.com’—which enjoys wide cross-party support—calls for:
Mae’r Comisiwn Digartrefedd yn nodi un ffactor y mae’n rhaid mynd i’r afael ag ef: sef pennu targedau ac amcanion polisi na ellir eu cyflawni o fewn yr amserlenni arfaethedig. Er enghraifft, mae ‘Gwellcymru.com’—sy’n cael cefnogaeth gyffredinol ar draws y pleidiau—yn galw am:
‘the need for rough sleeping to be eliminated’
The commission concludes that this objective was not achievable due to difficulties with funding, planning and infrastructure. This administration must stop claiming that its policies can eliminate problems, or achieve objectives, when it knows that the support structures to deliver those policies are not in place.
Casgliad y comisiwn yw nid oedd modd cyflawni’r nod hwn oherwydd anawsterau o ran ariannu, cynllunio a seilwaith. Rhaid i’r weinyddiaeth hon roi’r gorau i honni y gall ei pholisïau ddileu problemau, neu gyflawni amcanion, a hwythau’n gwybod nad yw’r strwythurau cymorth ar waith i gyflawni’r polisïau hynny.
We strongly commend the actions of voluntary bodies. Young people who leave home—for whatever reason—sometimes find themselves technically homeless because they stay with friends on an indefinite basis. They are in a vulnerable situation. Measures such as those recognised in the commission’s report should help alleviate that potentially serious problem. The previous Conservative Governments recognised the problem, particularly in the Housing Act 1996.
Yr ydym yn cymeradwyo gwaith mudiadau gwirfoddol yn fawr. Mae pobl ifanc sy’n gadael cartref—am ba resymau bynnag—weithiau yn dod yn dechnegol ddigartref am eu bod yn aros gyda ffrindiau am gyfnod amhenodol. Maent mewn sefyllfa fregus. Dylai’r math o fesurau a gydnabuwyd yn adroddiad y comisiwn helpu i leddfu’r broblem honno, a all fod ddifrifol. Cydnabu’r Llywodraeth Geidwadol flaenorol y broblem, yn arbennig yn Neddf Tai 1996.
Although Dr Mullan did not have the sufficient time or resources to interview those who work in the statutory and voluntary homelessness sectors, we believe that the experience of these sectors is vital if this matter is to be considered fully. That is particularly important as regards the voluntary sector. Amendment 5 aims to include the specific and extensive consultation of these sectors.
Er nad oedd gan Dr Mullan ddigon o amser nac adnoddau i gyfweld â phobl sy’n gweithio ym maes digartrefedd yn y sector statudol a’r sector gwirfoddol, credwn fod profiad y sectorau hynny yn hollbwysig er mwyn i’r mater hwn gael ei ystyried yn llawn. Mae hynny yn arbennig o bwysig o ran y sector gwirfoddol. Nod gwellant 5 yw sicrhau yr ymgynghorir â’r sectorau hyn yn benodol ac yn eang.
In a recent survey, 70 per cent of those questioned believed that the UK has significant levels of poverty and homelessness. The proportion of the people surveyed who believe in a fundamental reform of the welfare benefits system—86 per cent—matches that figure. In recent months, we have seen our already over-burdened rural areas suffer further economic and social hardship. These areas have been devastated by foot and mouth disease, which has had a severe impact on tourism. We are beginning to experience the effects of the terrible events of 11 September, and we recently heard the announcement of the closure of the Alcoa aluminium sheeting plant at Dolgarrog. The impact of that closure will extend beyond the manufacturing industries and could potentially contribute to the problem of homelessness.
Mewn arolwg diweddar, yr oedd 70 y cant o’r rhai a holwyd o’r farn bod lefelau sylweddol o dlodi a digartrefedd yn y DU. Mae canran y bobl yn yr arolwg sydd o blaid diwygio’r system budd-daliadau lles yn sylweddol—86 y cant—yn cyfateb â’r ffigur hwnnw. Yn ystod y misoedd diwethaf, gwelsom ein hardaloedd gwledig, sydd eisoes dan bwysau mawr, yn dioddef caledi economaidd a chymdeithasol pellach. Dioddefodd yr ardaloedd hyn yn enbyd yn sgîl clwy’r traed a’r genau, sydd wedi amharu ar dwristiaeth yn sylweddol. Mae digwyddiadau ofnadwy 11 Medi yn dechrau effeithio arnom, ac yn ddiweddar clywsom y cyhoeddiad bod gwaith dalennau alwminiwm Alcoa yn Nolgarrog yn cau. Bydd effaith y penderfyniad i gau’r gwaith hwnnw yn mynd y tu hwnt i’r diwydiannau gweithgynhyrchu a gallai waethygu problem digartrefedd.
The issue of affordable rural housing is familiar to the Assembly. However, the additional strain on our farming and tourism industries may be reflected in the increase in the numbers of people who become homeless in rural areas. Homelessness is not a problem confined to urban communities. Amendment 6 calls for further consultation with local authorities in primarily rural areas to allow us to address the problem of homelessness throughout Wales.
Mae mater tai gwledig fforddiadwy yn gyfarwydd i’r Cynulliad. Fodd bynnag, efallai y caiff y pwysau ychwanegol sydd ar ein diwydiannau ffermio a thwristiaeth eu hadlewyrchu yn y cynnydd yn nifer y bobl sy’n dod yn ddigartref mewn ardaloedd gwledig. Nid problem i gymunedau trefol yn unig yw digartrefedd. Mae gwelliant 6 yn galw arnom i ymgynghori ymhellach â’r awdurdodau lleol mewn ardaloedd sy’n wledig yn bennaf er mwyn inni fynd i’r afael â phroblem digartrefedd ledled Cymru.
I am pleased to have been a member of the Homelessness Commission and to have had the opportunity of contributing to the report. As Chair of the Local Government and Housing Committee, I welcome the opportunity for the Committee to consider the responses to the report’s recommendations and to monitor the development of a national homelessness strategy.
Yr oeddwn yn falch o fod yn aelod o’r Comisiwn Digartrefedd ac o gael y cyfle i gyfrannu at yr adroddiad. A minnau’n Gadeirydd y Pwyllgor Llywodraeth Leol a Thai, croesawaf y cyfle i’r Pwyllgor ystyried yr ymatebion i argymhellion yr adroddiad ac i fonitro datblygiad strategaeth ddigartrefedd genedlaethol.
It was at the end of the nineteenth century that William Booth, the founder of the Salvation Army, saw the homeless people under the bridges of London and told his commander-in-chief: ‘Do something about it’. As a result, the Salvation Army is now one of the biggest providers of help for the homeless and those who sleep rough. There is still more to be done in the fight against homelessness. That is why the National Assembly has recognised the importance of addressing homelessness and rough sleepers as part of its strategy to tackle social disadvantage.
Ar ddiwedd y bedwaredd ganrif ar bymtheg, ar ôl i William Booth, sylfaenydd Fyddin yr Iachawdwriaeth, weld y bobl ddigartref o dan bontydd Llundain, dywedodd wrth ei bencadfridog: ‘Gwnewch rywbeth amdano’. O ganlyniad, Byddin yr Iachawdwriaeth erbyn hyn yw un o brif ffynonellau cymorth i’r digartref a’r rhai sy’n cysgu ar y stryd. Mae rhagor i’w wneud o hyd yn y frwydr yn erbyn digartrefedd. Dyna pam mae’r Cynulliad Cenedlaethol wedi cydnabod pwysigrwydd ymdrin â digartrefedd a’r rhai sy’n cysgu ar y stryd fel rhan o’i strategaeth i fynd i’r afael ag anfantais gymdeithasol.
Homelessness has many deep-rooted and wide-ranging causes and consequences. We must work together to address underlying causes. The Homelessness Commission has attempted to cover a broad spectrum of issues relating to homelessness. I believe that the document goes some way towards addressing those underlying causes.
Mae i ddigartrefedd achosion a chanlyniadau lu, sy’n ddwfn eu gwreiddiau ac yn eang eu cwmpas. Rhaid inni gydweithio i fynd i’r afael â’r achosion sylfaenol. Mae’r Comisiwn Digartrefedd wedi ceisio cwmpasu ystod eang o faterion sy’n gysylltiedig â digartrefedd. Credaf fod y ddogfen wedi llwyddo i ymdrin â’r achosion sylfaenol hynny i raddau helaeth.
On 1 March, the Homeless Persons (Priority Need) (Wales) Order 2001 came into force. That Order applies only to Wales and extends the categories of persons that have priority needs to include:
Ar 1 Mawrth, daeth Gorchymyn Personau Digartref (Angen Blaenoriaethol) (Cymru) 2001 i rym. Dim ond i Gymru y mae’r Gorchymyn hwnnw yn berthnasol ac mae’n ymestyn y categorïau o bobl sydd ag angen blaenoriaethol i gynnwys:
‘A care leaver or person at particular risk of sexual or financial exploitation, 18 years and over but under the age of 21…A 16 or 17 year old…A person fleeing domestic violence or threatened domestic violence…A person homeless after leaving the armed forces…[and] A former prisoner homeless after being released from custody.’
‘Person sy’n ymadael â gofal neu berson mewn perygl neilltuol o ecsbloetio rhywiol neu ariannol ac sy’n 18 oed neu drosodd ond o dan 21 oed…Person 16 neu 17 oed… Person sy’n ffoi rhag trais yn y cartref neu rhag bygythiad trais yn y cartref…Person sydd heb lety ar ôl ymadael â’r lluoedd arfog…[a ch]yn-garcharor sydd heb lety ar ôl cael ei ryddhau o’r ddalfa.’
For this debate, I will concentrate on care leavers and former prisoners. On release, ex-offenders often find themselves homeless because of their inability to pay rent while in prison or a landlord’s refusal to take them back upon release. Research has highlighted the difficulties that many ex-offenders face in their search for a home. Evidence also shows that ex-offenders are more likely to reoffend if they do not have satisfactory accommodation. The commission therefore agreed recommendations for improving the level of support available for ex-offenders to help them establish stable lives in settled accommodation.
Ar gyfer y ddadl hon, canolbwyntiaf ar y rhai sy’n gadael gofal a chyn-garcharorion. Ar ôl eu rhyddhau, mae cyn-droseddwyr yn aml yn ddigartref am nad oeddent yn gallu talu rhent tra eu bod yn y carchar neu am fod y landlord wedi gwrthod caniatáu iddynt ddychwelyd ar ôl iddynt gael eu rhyddhau o’r carchar. Dangosodd ymchwil yr anawsterau y mae llawer o gyn-droseddwyr yn eu hwynebu wrth chwilio am gartref. Dengys tystiolaeth hefyd fod cyn-droseddwyr yn debycach o droseddu eto os nad ydynt yn byw mewn llety boddhaol. Felly cytunodd y comisiwn ar argymhellion i sicrhau bod mwy o gymorth ar gael i gyn-droseddwyr i’w helpu i fyw bywyd sefydlog mewn llety sefydlog.
The commission also acknowledged the need to take account of community safety considerations in planning the resettlement of homeless people who may pose a risk to the community. The importance of multi-agency arrangements for the risk assessment and management of dangerous persons—especially sex offenders—was emphasised, and it was stressed that landlords should take full account of advice from the relevant statutory services, particularly the police and probation service.
Cydnabu’r comisiwn hefyd fod angen ystyried diogelwch cymunedol wrth gynllunio sut yr adleolir pobl ddigartref a allai fod yn beryglus i’r gymuned. Pwysleisiwyd pwysigrwydd trefniadau aml-asiantaeth i asesu risg pobl beryglus a’u rheoli—yn enwedig troseddwyr rhyw—a phwysleisiwyd hefyd y dylai landlordiaid ystyried cyngor y gwasanaethau statudol perthnasol, yn arbennig yr heddlu a’r gwasanaeth prawf.
The philosophy of the Children Act 1989 is underpinned by the belief that the safety and wellbeing of children should come first. Care leavers, although protected by the Children Act 1989 can, and often do, fall foul of the system, and can end up homeless or placed in unsuitable accommodation without support. Young people leaving care are extremely vulnerable. The commission recognised that continuity of care is a problem for many homeless people, particularly children and young people, as they may change addresses frequently, which can result in contact being lost.
Sail athroniaeth Deddf Plant 1989 yw’r gred mai diogelwch a lles plant ddylai gael y flaenoriaeth uchaf. Er y diogelir pobl ifanc sy’n gadael gofal o dan Ddeddf Plant 1989, gallant, ac yn aml, fe fyddant yn dioddef oherwydd y system, ac weithiau maent yn dod yn ddigartref neu’n cael eu rhoi mewn llety anaddas heb gymorth. Mae pobl ifanc sy’n gadael gofal yn ddiamddiffyn iawn. Cydnabu’r comisiwn fod parhad gofal yn broblem i lawer o bobl ddigartref, yn enwedig plant a phobl ifanc, am eu bod yn newid cyfeiriadau yn aml o bosibl, a all arwain at golli cyswllt.
I agree with the commission’s suggestion that a specialist health visitor be appointed to act as an ongoing point of contact between homeless children and the health service, as well as taking further steps to notify relevant school nurses of homeless children in their care.
Cytunaf ag awgrym y comisiwn y dylid penodi ymwelydd iechyd arbenigol i fod yn bwynt gyswllt parhaus rhwng plant digartref a’r gwasanaeth iechyd, yn ogystal â chymryd camau pellach i hysbysu’r nyrsys ysgol perthnasol pan fo plant digartref yn eu gofal.
The commission also took account of the United Nations Convention on the Rights of the Child, which was adopted by the United Nations General Assembly in 1989.
Ystyriodd y comisiwn hefyd Gonfensiwn y Cenhedloedd Unedig ar Hawliau Plant, a fabwysiadwyd gan Gynlluniad Cyffredinol y Cenhedloedd Unedig yn 1989.
A recent report by the Advisory Council on the Misuse of Drugs stated on the subject of homelessness,
Nododd adroddiad diweddar gan y Cyngor Ymgynghorol ar Gamddefnyddio Cyffuriau ynglŷn â digartrefedd,
‘it is difficult to envisage a situation more encouraging of drug misuse. Any measures which deal more adequately with the root causes of homelessness…are therefore likely to contribute significantly to the prevention of the drug misuse.’
We welcome this report as a starting point in tackling the homelessness issue and its associated problems in Wales. However, we must go further. For example, we must address the needs of specific groups. It is no good talking about ‘the homeless’. They are individuals. Homeless women and men with children, homeless teenagers, and people released from prison all have different needs. We must recognise that and set out specific, realistic targets that answer those needs.
Croesawn yr adroddiad hwn fel man cychwyn i fynd i’r afael â digartrefedd a’r problemau cysylltiedig yng Nghymru. Fodd bynnag, rhaid inni fynd ymhellach. Er enghraifft, rhaid inni fynd i’r afael ag anghenion grwpiau penodol. Nid oes diben sôn am ‘y digartref’. Unigolion ydynt. Mae anghenion gwahanol gan ferched a dynion â phlant, pobl ifanc yn eu harddegau, a phobl a ryddhawyd o’r carchar, sy’n ddigartref. Rhaid inni gydnabod hynny a gosod targedau penodol a realistig sy’n diwallu’r anghenion hynny.
The crux of the matter, as always, is funding. Any strategy which is not adequately funded, as we all know, is no more than a wish list. We all know that homeless people lack access to health services. We need to improve upon providing access to all aspects of healthcare, such as mental health care, dental care, and so on. To do this we need definite structures and targets, and the onus must be on the Assembly to make it happen. We need to guide and direct our health services. For instance, there is no requirement within the present health improvement plan to mention homelessness, let alone have a strategy to tackle the health implications. This is perhaps one area where an Assembly directive could have a positive impact.
Diwedd y gân, fel pob tro, yw’r geiniog. Fel y gwyddom oll, nid yw strategaeth yn ddim amgenach na rhestr o ddymuniadau os and yw wedi’i hariannu’n ddigonol. Gwyddom oll nad yw pobl ddigartref yn gallu cael gafael ar wasanaethau iechyd. Mae angen gwella ar y mynediad i bob agwedd ar ofal iechyd, megis gofal iechyd meddwl, gofal deintyddol, ac ati. I wneud hyn, mae angen strwythurau a thargedau penodol, a rhaid i’r Cynulliad fod gyfrifol am sicrhau bod hyn yn digwydd. Rhaid inni dywys a chyfeirio ein gwasanaethau iechyd. Er enghraifft, nid oes gofyniad yn y cynllun gwella iechyd presennol i gyfeirio at ddigartrefedd, heb sôn am lunio strategaeth i fynd i’r afael â’r goblygiadau o ran iechyd. Mae hwn o bosibl yn faes lle y gallai cyfarwyddeb gan y Cynulliad gael effaith gadarnhaol.
I will give one example of an unrealistic aim in the document. Point 32 reads,
Rhoddaf un enghraifft o nod afrealistig yn y ddogfen. Noda pwynt 32,
‘The Health Services should ensure that no person is discharged from hospital without accommodation, or to accommodation that would prejudice their health, unless this is their express choice.’
This is a laudable aim, but what are the implications for our hospitals? It would cause complete chaos. We are not only talking about the homeless people, but also those—like so many in my constituency—who live in substandard housing which can prejudice one’s health. Are we really saying that we expect the health service to shoulder the responsibility for the housing needs of these people, as well as for their healthcare?
Dyna nod canmoladwy, ond beth yw’r goblygiadau i’n hysbytai? Byddai’n achosi anhrefn llwyr. Yr ydym nid yn unig yn sôn am y bobl ddigartref, ond hefyd am bobl—fel cymaint yn fy etholaeth i—sy’n byw mewn tai ansafonol, a all niweidio iechyd pobl. A ydym yn dweud ein bod yn disgwyl i’r gwasanaeth iechyd ysgwyddo’r cyfrifoldeb dros anghenion tai’r bobl hyn, yn ogystal â’u gofal iechyd?
Point 39 notes that
Noda pwynt 39
‘The National Assembly should consider whether the Care Standards Act has any implications for existing Drug and Alcohol Misuse Projects.’
The message coming loud and clear from the front line is that it has serious implications. A recent survey by two major substance misuse charities, DrugScope and Alcohol Concern, reported that between 60 per cent and 70 per cent of treatment projects would be forced to close as a result of new regulation. There is great concern among those involved in such projects in Wales about the disastrous knock-on effects of this on drug rehabilitation and housing stability for patients.
Y neges glir o’r rheng flaen yw bod goblygiadau difrifol i hyn. Yn ôl arolwg diweddar gan ddwy elusen bwysig ym maes camddefnyddio sylweddau, DrugScope ac Alcohol Concern, byddai rhwng 60 y cant a 70 y cant o brosiectau trin pobl yn gorfod dod i ben o ganlyniad i’r rheoliad newydd. Mae pryder mawr ymhlith y rhai sy’n ymwneud â phrosiectau o’r fath yng Nghymru ynglŷn â’r sgîl-effeithiau enbyd ar waith gwella pobl sy’n camddefnyddio cyffuriau ac ar sefydlogrwydd tai i gleifion.
This report is a good starting point. We must ensure that those strengths are not lost, and not diluted in any way as it evolves into our strategy. We must also go much further, and commit ourselves on all levels, if we are serious about turning the aspirations contained in the report into reality.
Mae’r adroddiad yn fan cychwyn da. Rhaid inni sicrhau na chaiff y mannau cryf hynny eu colli, na’u glastwreiddio wrth iddi ddatblygu’n strategaeth. Rhaid inni fynd ymhellach, ac ymrwymo ar bob lefel, os ydym o ddifrif am wireddu dyheadau’r adroddiad.
I am pleased to support the Minister’s comments about the good work of the Homelessness Commission. I congratulate them and the contributors—particularly Dr Mullan—on that work.
Mae’n dda gennyf gefnogi sylwadau’r Gweinidog am waith da’r Comisiwn Digartrefedd. Llongyfarchaf y comisiwn a’r rhai a gyfrannodd—yn arbennig Dr Mullan—at y gwaith hwnnw.
It is regrettable, and defies belief to listen to William Graham and the Conservatives this afternoon, bearing in mind the terrible problem of homelessness that we inherited in Wales in 1997. They say that that they—
Rhaid gresynu, ac mae’n amhosibl credu yr hyn a ddywedodd William Graham a’r Ceidwadwyr y prynhawn yma, o gofio’r broblem ofnadwy o ran digartrefedd a etifeddwyd gennym yng Nghymru yn 1997. Maent yn dweud eu bod—
Will you give way on this? That is not true.
A wnewch chi ildio? Nid yw hynny yn wir.
I will not give way yet. They said that they did not recognise that there was a homelessness problem, but we know that there was. The Assembly has made major strides in this area. It would be better if the Conservatives got behind the positive actions being taken by the commission and the Assembly, rather than wasting our time in such a disgraceful way with these amendments. They ask about consultation. Where have they been for the last two years? Consultation has been the order of the day as far as homelessness is concerned. I would not expect anything more from a party that is reduced to taking in homeless Liberal Democrats—and do not stop now, boys, take this lot on my right as well; I would be pleased if you would.
Nid ildiaf eto. Dywedasant nad oeddent yn cydnabod bod problem digartrefedd, ond gwyddom fod problem. Mae’r Cynulliad wedi cymryd camau breision yn y maes hwn. Byddai’n well pe bai’r Ceidwadwyr yn cefnogi’r camau cadarnhaol a gymerir gan y comisiwn a’r Cynulliad yn hytrach na gwastraffu ein hamser mewn modd mor ddigywilydd drwy’r gwelliannau hyn. Holant am ymgynghoriad. Ble y buont ers dwy flynedd? O ran digartrefedd, ymgynghori fu’r elfen bwysicaf oll. Ni ddisgwyliwn lai gan blaid sy’n gorfod rhoi lloches i Ddemocratiaid Rhyddfrydol digartref—ewch ymlaen, fechgyn, a rhowch loches i’r criw hwn ar fy ochr dde hefyd; byddai’n dda gennyf pe baech yn gwneud hynny.
I believe that homelessness must be recognised as more than a housing-based concept because there are so many different bases of homelessness. We must consider the range of events that lead people into homelessness, and also the combination of skills, tools and routes that must be marshalled to provide solutions out of homelessness. These come together to form the basis of the concept of client-centred support. That is important because support is recognised in clause 3 of the Homelessness Bill, which refers to the strategies that are needed. The Bevan ‘Rough Sleeping in Wales’ report recommended that legislative changes should be considered to require local authorities to ensure that support assessments are undertaken for homeless applicants and that appropriate support is provided for people in applicable cases. In my view this is a key recommendation in terms of finding those solutions.
Credaf fod yn rhaid cydnabod bod a wnelo digartrefedd â mwy na’r cysyniad o dai gan fod cymaint o wahanol fathau o ddigartrefedd. Rhaid inni ystyried yr amrywiaeth o ddigwyddiadau sy’n peri i bobl ddod yn ddigartref, a hefyd y cyfuniad o sgiliau, offer a llwybrau y mae’n rhaid eu tynnu ynghyd i roi atebion i ddigartrefedd. Daw’r rhain ynghyd yn sail i’r cysyniad o gymorth wedi ei anelu at gleientiaid. Mae hynny yn bwysig am fod cymorth wedi ei gydnabod yng nghymal 3 o’r Mesur Digartrefedd, sy’n cyfeirio at y strategaethau sydd eu hangen. Mae adroddiad Bevan, ‘Cysgu Allan yng Nghymru’ wedi argymell y dylid ystyried newidiadau deddfwriaethol i’w gwneud yn ofynnol i awdurdodau lleol sicrhau bod asesiadau cymorth yn cael eu cynnal ar gyfer ceiswyr digartref a bod cymorth priodol ar gael i bobl sy’n gymwys. Yn fy marn i, mae hwn yn argymhelliad allweddol o ran ariannu’r atebion hynny.
Reference has also been made to suitable accommodation. What is suitable accommodation? The National Assembly should consider making regulations that require local authorities throughout Wales to assess the support needs of homeless people, which would then be taken into account in judging suitability. That would be a reasonable step, which has been called for by a number of associations, not least Caer Las Cymru, for which I have great respect.
Cyfeiriwyd hefyd at lety addas. Beth yw llety addas? Dylai’r Cynulliad Cenedlaethol ystyried gwneud rheoliadau a fydd yn ei gwneud yn ofynnol i awdurdodau lleol ledled Cymru asesu anghenion cymorth pobl ddigartref. Yna câi’r rhain eu hystyried wrth farnu a yw llety yn addas ai peidio. Byddai hynny yn gam rhesymol, y mae nifer o gymdeithasau, gan gynnwys Caer Las Cymru, cymdeithas y mae gennyf barch mawr tuag ati, wedi galw amdano.
The report also refers to resettlement workers. I welcome that. My colleague, Gwenda Thomas, referred to the specialist health visitors for children. It is important that there is such a link where children are involved. Resettlement workers are also important because we must focus on tackling the financial difficulties and reducing the social isolation that homeless people face. Education, training and some form of employment—paid or voluntary—are important in helping homeless people resettle in society and sustain tenancies.
Cyfeiria’r adroddiad hefyd at weithwyr adleoli. Croesawaf hynny. Cyfeiriodd fy nghyd-Aelod, Gwenda Thomas, at ymwelwyr iechyd arbenigol i blant. Mae’n bwysig bod cyswllt o’r fath o ran plant. Mae gweithwyr adleoli yn bwysig hefyd am fod yn rhaid inni ganolbwyntio ar fynd i’r afael ag anawsterau ariannol a lleihau’r ynysu cymdeithasol a wyneba pobl ddigartref. Mae addysg, hyfforddiant a rhyw fath o waith—boed yn gyflogedig neu’n wirfoddol—yn bwysig i helpu pobl ddigartref adsefydlu mewn cymdeithas a chynnal tenantiaethau.
I am pleased to pay this small tribute to the people who do so much hard work. I was associated with many of these people when I was responsible for housing in the Assembly. They work for organisations such as Cyrenians Cymru; Newport Action for the Single Homeless, in Newport and Abergavenny; Cardiff Action for the Single Homeless with its wonderful Huggard Centre not far from here; the Salvation Army; the night shelters at Bangor, Wrexham and Rhyl that do so much good work; Cywaith Joseff; and Cymdeithas Tai Hafan, which works throughout Wales, particularly in Carmarthen. There are many more who give of their own freewill. I have seen them visit cities at night volunteering to distribute food that they have collected. That is the sort of contribution we should support to ensure that we get people off the streets as soon as possible. These workers deserve to be put on a roll of honour because of their hard work. If we are to tackle this issue effectively, we must work with them and harness their experience. We are talking about a sad reality: poverty, exclusion, deprivation, insecurity and lack of self-esteem. When you see Wallich Clifford Community workers going on a soup or breakfast run, you come to understand and appreciate the value of their work. All Members should become aware of such contributions and associate themselves with that work.
Yr wyf yn falch o dalu’r deyrnged fach hon i’r bobl sy’n gwneud cymaint o waith caled. Bûm mewn cysylltiad â llawer o’r bobl hyn pan oeddwn yn gyfrifol am dai yn y Cynulliad. Gweithiant i fudiadau megis Cyrenians Cymru; Newport Action for the Single Homeless, yng Nghasnewydd a’r Fenni, Cardiff Action for the Single Homeless drwy Ganolfan wych Huggard nid nepell i ffwrdd; Byddin yr Iachawdwriaeth; llochesi nos ym Mangor, Wrecsam a’r Rhyl sy’n gwneud cymaint o waith da; Cywaith Joseff; a Chymdeithas Tai Hafan, sy’n gweithio ledled Cymru, yn arbennig yng Nghaerfyrddin. Mae llawer mwy sy’n rhoi o’u gwirfodd. Yr wyf wedi eu gweld ar ymweliadau mewn dinasoedd yn y nos yn gwirfoddoli i ddosbarthu bwyd y maent wedi ei gasglu. Dyna’r math o gyfraniad y dylem ei gefnogi i sicrhau ein bod yn llwyddo i ddileu digartrefedd mor fuan â phosib. Mae’r gweithwyr hyn yn haeddu cael eu hanrhydeddu am eu gwaith caled. Er mwyn inni fynd i’r afael â’r mater hwn yn effeithiol, rhaid inni gydweithio â hwy a manteisio ar eu profiad. Yr ydym yn sôn am realiti truenus: tlodi, allgáu, amddifadedd, ansicrwydd a diffyg hunanfalchder. Ar ôl gweld gweithwyr Cymuned Wallich Clifford yn dosbarthu cawl neu frecwast, mae rhywun yn dechrau deall a gwerthfawrogi pa mor werthfawr yw eu gwaith. Dylai pob Aelod sicrhau eu bod yn ymwybodol o gyfraniadau o’r fath ac ymgysylltu â’r gwaith hwnnw.
We must accept that there is much left to do. We must provide safe, warm and secure accommodation for every homeless person in Wales. It is a challenge in that we must not fail. These are people, and it is the National Assembly’s role to tell them that we care and that they will not be forgotten. This is why the good work of the Homeless Commission is to be applauded and why I am sure that the Minister will progress positively with several of these worthy organisations—
Rhaid inni dderbyn bod llawer i’w wneud o hyd. Rhaid inni ddarparu llety diogel, cynnes a chlyd i bawb sy’n ddigartref yng Nghymru. Mae’n her gan na allwn fforddio methu. Pobl ydynt a rôl y Cynulliad Cenedlaethol yw dweud wrthynt ein bod yn gofalu amdanynt ac na chânt eu hesgeuluso. Dyna pam mae rhaid canmol gwaith da’r Comisiwn Digartrefedd a dyna pam yr wyf yn siŵr y bydd y Gweinidog yn cymryd camau cadarnhaol ymlaen gyda sawl un o’r mudiadau clodwiw hyn—
John Marek The Deputy Presiding Officer spoken in English p. 54
John Marek Y Dirprwy Lywydd siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 54
Order. Your time has come to an end, Peter. You mistimed it this time.
Trefn. Peter, mae eich amser ar ben. Gwnaethoch gamamseru y tro hwn.
First, I correct Peter because he is obviously not in full command of the facts. I did some research on homelessness some years ago because it is an important issue. The number of homeless people increased spectacularly in the first year of this UK Labour Government. The Government then changed the way in which it calculated that number, so that it has become impossible to determine whether there are more or less homeless people now than under the previous Conservative Government.
Yn gyntaf, hoffwn gywiro Peter am nad yw’n meddu ar y ffeithiau llawn, mae’n amlwg. Gwneuthum beth ymchwil i ddigartrefedd rai blynyddoedd yn ôl gan ei fod yn fater pwysig. Bu cynnydd enfawr yn nifer y bobl ddigartref ym mlwyddyn gyntaf y Llywodraeth Lafur hon yn y DU. Yna newidiodd y Llywodraeth y ffordd y mae’n cyfrifo’r nifer hwnnw, felly mae’n amhosibl bellach canfod a oes mwy neu lai o bobl ddigartref yn awr nag o dan y Llywodraeth Geidwadol flaenorol.
Do you accept that homelessness has decreased in Wales since the establishment of the National Assembly and that we have targeted the problem with record amounts of finance?
A dderbyniwch fod digartrefedd wedi gostwng yng Nghymru ers sefydlu’r Cynulliad Cenedlaethol a’n bod wedi targedu’r broblem drwy’r symiau mwyaf erioed o arian?
I am happy to accept that. However, the figures cannot be compared with those during the previous Conservative Government because the way in which homelessness is calculated has been changed. Numbers decreased under the previous Government and increased during the Labour Government’s first year in office.
Yr wyf yn fwy na pharod i dderbyn hynny. Fodd bynnag, ni ellir cymharu’r ffigurau â ffigurau’r Llywodraeth Geidwadol flaenorol am fod y ffordd y caiff digartrefedd ei gyfrifo wedi newid. Bu gostyngiad yn nifer y bobl ddigartref o dan y Llywodraeth flaenorol a chynnydd yn ystod blwyddyn gyntaf y Llywodraeth Lafur.
There is much in this document to be commended. However, one aspect that concerns me slightly, and which has been mentioned, is the implication that special housing priority will be given to ex-offenders. We live in a society in which the perpetrators of crime often seem to be treated better than their victims. These measures may well do much to reinforce that perception. Over the past two and a half years, my surgery has been visited by many decent, hard-working, law-abiding people who have experienced housing problems as a result of having to wait an unacceptably long time for reasonable accommodation to be made available to them. It would be unfair to push such people back down the list in order to make way for those who have committed crimes. What sort of message is sent out if we start rewarding those who commit crimes by giving them preferential treatment, by putting them ahead of those who have committed no crime at all? The liberal tendency answers this by saying that those who commit crimes are more likely to commit further crimes if we do not pander to their every whim. I have two answers to that. First, if criminals are seen to benefit, then we will simply encourage more people to undertake criminal activity. Secondly, if having to wait their turn in a queue like everyone else is more likely to lead ex-offenders to re-offend, then we should make it clear that if they do, we will make one form of high quality and cheap accommodation available to them straight away, namely Her Majesty’s nearest prison.
Mae llawer yn y ddogfen hon i’w ganmol. Fodd bynnag, un agwedd sy’n achosi rhywfaint o bryder imi, rhywbeth a grybwyllwyd eisoes, yw’r awgrym y caiff cyn-droseddwyr flaenoriaeth arbennig o ran tai. Yr ydym yn byw mewn cymdeithas lle yr ymddengys y caiff y rhai sy’n cyflawni troseddau eu trin yn well na’r dioddefwyr yn aml. Mae’n ddigon posibl y bydd y mesurau hyn yn dwysáu’r canfyddiad hwnnw. Yn ystod y ddwy flynedd a hanner ddiwethaf mae llawer o bobl dda, sy’n parchu’r gyfraith wedi dod i’m cymorthfa am fod ganddynt broblemau tai ar ôl iddynt orfod aros cyfnod annerbyniol o hir cyn cael llety dechau. Byddai’n annheg gwthio’r bobl hynny i waelod y rhestr er mwyn creu lle i’r rhai sydd wedi cyflawni trosedd. Pa fath o neges y byddem yn ei rhoi pe baem yn dechrau gwobrwyo’r rhai sy’n cyflawni troseddau drwy eu trin hwy’n well nag eraill, drwy eu rhoi o flaen pobl nad ydynt wedi tramgwyddo o gwbl? Mae’r adain ryddfrydol yn ateb hyn drwy ddweud bod y rhai sy’n cyflawni troseddau yn fwy tebygol o gyflawni troseddau eraill oni fyddwn yn ildio i’w mympwyon byth a beunydd. Mae gennyf ddau ateb i hynny. Yn gyntaf, os ystyrir bod troseddwyr ar eu hennill, yna byddwn yn annog mwy o bobl i ymddwyn yn anghyfreithlon, Yn ail, os yw’r ffaith bod yn rhaid iddynt aros eu tro fel pawb arall yn fwy tebygol o beri i gyn-droseddwyr droseddu eto, yna dylem egluro y cânt fath o lety rhad o safon ar unwaith, sef carchar agosaf Ei Mawrhydi, os gwnânt hynny.
Housing the homeless must be a priority, but it must not be done by pushing back down the list those who have done nothing except work hard and obey the rules all their lives.
Rhaid rhoi blaenoriaeth i roi llety i’r digartref, ond rhaid inni beidio â gwneud hynny drwy roi’r bobl nad ydynt wedi gwneud dim byd ond gweithio’n galed ac ufuddhau i’r rheolau ar hyd eu bywydau ar waelod y rhestr.
I will not follow that in quite the same vein. I am pleased that we are debating this important subject in Plenary today. A secure home is one of the most basic needs, yet it is still out of reach for so many people. A home should be a right regardless of colour, creed or language.
Ni pharhaf â’r sylwadau hynny yn yr union gywair. Yr wyf yn falch ein bod yn trafod y pwnc pwysig hwn yn y Cyfarfod Llawn heddiw. Mae cartref clyd ymhlith yr anghenion mwyaf sylfaenol, ond eto y mae y tu hwnt i gyrraedd cymaint o bobl. Dylai fod hawl gan bobl i gartref waeth beth fo’u hil, eu crefydd neu eu hiaith.
I know that this report is part of an ongoing process in tackling the problem of homelessness and rough sleeping in Wales. I look forward to us building on our partnership with local authorities. Many voluntary organisations have been battling with these problems for so many years. From sleeping in a box on the street on a cold evening last Christmas, I have a different perspective and understanding of how horrendous that life is. I welcome the extension of categories of persons described as having priority need.
Gwn fod yr adroddiad hwn yn rhan o broses barhaus i fynd i’r afael â phroblem digartrefedd a phobl yn cysgu ar y stryd yng Nghymru. Edrychaf ymlaen at ein gweld yn adeiladu ar ein partneriaeth â’r awdurdodau lleol. Bu llawer o’r mudiadau gwirfoddol yn ymladd yn erbyn y problemau hyn ers blynyddoedd lawer. Ar ôl cysgu mewn blwch ar y stryd ar noson oer ar adeg y Nadolig y llynedd, newidiwyd fy safbwynt a’m dealltwriaeth o ba mor ofnadwy yw’r bywyd hwnnw. Croesawaf y penderfyniad i ymestyn y categorïau o bobl y dywedir bod ganddynt angen blaenoriaethol.
Young people leaving care do not have the same support networks and safety nets as those provided by a secure family unit. I believe that it is right and proper for local authorities to give them this support. In fact, David, they could end up being the very people who come out of the penal system if they are not given that support. The same holds true, of course, for people fleeing domestic violence and those who are homeless after leaving custody. We all agree that our greatest chance of tackling homelessness is in preventing it and ensuring that people do not slip through the safety nets that should, initially, be in place.
Nid oes gan bobl ifanc sy’n gadael gofal yr un rhwydweithiau o gymorth na rhwydi diogelwch ag a ddarperir gan uned deuluol sefydlog. Credaf ei bod yn gwbl briodol i’r awdurdodau lleol roi’r cymorth hwn iddynt. Yn wir, David, mae’n bosibl mai hwy fyddai’r bobl hynny yn y pen draw sy’n mynd drwy’r system gosb oni chânt y cymorth hwnnw. Mae hynny yn wir hefyd, wrth gwrs, am bobl sy’n ffoi rhag trais yn y cartref a phobl sy’n ddigartref ar ôl bod yn y ddalfa. Cytunwn oll mai ein cyfle gorau i fynd i’r afael â digartrefedd yw ei atal a sicrhau nad yw pobl yn llithro drwy’r rhwydi diogelwch a ddylai fod ar waith yn y lle cyntaf.
From research carried out by Shelter, we know that over 90 per cent of those who sleep rough on the streets are male and about a quarter of them are aged between 18 and 25. We also know that over half of them have mental health problems and, in 88 per cent of cases, these problems were present before they became homeless and ended up on the streets. Around half of them have alcohol problems and about one in five have drug problems. Over a third have combined mental health and substance abuse problems.
Yn ôl ymchwil a wnaeth Shelter, gwyddom mai dynion yw dros 90 y cant o’r rhai sy’n cysgu ar y stryd, gyda thua chwarter ohonynt rhwng 18 a 25 oed. Gwyddom hefyd fod dros hanner ohonynt yn dioddef o broblemau iechyd meddwl ac, mewn 88 y cant o achosion, yr oeddent yn dioddef o’r problemau hyn cyn iddynt ddod yn ddigartref a gorfod byw ar y stryd. Mae gan tua hanner ohonynt broblemau sy’n gysylltiedig ag alcohol ac mae gan un o bob pump broblemau sy’n gysylltiedig â chyffuriau. Mae dros draean yn dioddef o broblemau iechyd meddwl yn ogystal â phroblemau sy’n gysylltiedig â chamddefnyddio sylweddau.
We have a real obligation to these people. I strongly believe that street homelessness is a sign of the failure of social policy. It is not in anyone’s interests to try to lay the blame on any particular Government. It is essential that the Assembly works with the UK Government, local authorities and the voluntary sector to build effective long-term solutions. There is no quick fix for this. We need to provide access to affordable housing, changes to the benefits system and, above all, a stronger safety net.
Mae dyletswydd wirioneddol arnom i’r bobl hyn. Credaf yn gryf fod digartrefedd ar y stryd yn arwydd o fethiant polisi cymdeithasol. Nid yw ceisio rhoi’r bai ar unrhyw Lywodraeth benodol yn fuddiol i neb. Mae’n hanfodol bod y Cynulliad yn gweithio gyda Llywodraeth y DU, awdurdodau lleol a’r sector gwirfoddol i lunio atebion hirdymor effeithiol. Nid oes ateb buan i hyn. Mae angen inni sicrhau bod tai fforddiadwy ar gael, a’n bod yn newid y system budd-daliadau ac, yn anad dim, yn cryfhau’r rhwyd ddiogelwch.
The Homelessness Commission’s report is crucial for this Assembly. The commission was set up as a result of a homelessness Order, which widened the categories of homelessness. It has spent an enormous amount of time over many months discussing the report and the measures that it recommends.
Mae adroddiad y Comisiwn Digartrefedd yn hollbwysig i’r Cynulliad hwn. Sefydlwyd y comisiwn o ganlyniad i Orchymyn digartrefedd, a ymestynnodd y categorïau o ddigartrefedd. Mae wedi treulio cryn amser dros fisoedd lawer yn trafod yr adroddiad a’r mesurau a argymhella.
It is regrettable, however, that no Member of either opposition party was invited on to that Commission. That was not helpful. Nevertheless, that does not make any difference to our concern for homeless people. I was concerned today to find that in part of my constituency in Swansea, the number of homeless people has soared by 50 per cent. Caseworkers must now deal with 60 instead of 30 cases, which puts enormous pressure on them.
Fodd bynnag, rhaid gresynu at y ffaith na chafodd yr un Aelod o’r naill wrthblaid na’r llall wahoddiad i fod yn aelod o’r Comisiwn hwnnw. Nid oedd hynny o fudd. Eto i gyd, ni wna unrhyw wahaniaeth i’n pryder ynghylch pobl ddigartref. Yr oeddwn yn pryderu heddiw ar ôl cael gwybod bod nifer y bobl ddigartref mewn un rhan o’m hetholaeth yn Abertawe wedi cynyddu 50 y cant. Bellach rhaid i weithwyr achos ymdrin â 60 yn hytrach na 30 o achosion, sy’n rhoi pwysau enfawr arnynt.
Swansea City and County Council partly funds, for example, Barnardos and outreach workers. However, there is a huge demand to get the strategy and policies in place and to secure funding, which is always crucial. We need to recognise that the causes of homelessness are not uniform, and neither are the people who become homeless.
Mae Cyngor Dinas a Sir Abertawe yn rhannol ariannu Barnardos a gweithwyr allgyrch, er enghraifft. Fodd bynnag, mae galw mawr ar inni roi’r strategaeth a’r polisïau ar waith ac i sicrhau arian, sydd bob amser yn hanfodol. Mae angen inni gydnabod nad unffurf yw achosion digartrefedd, nac ychwaith y bobl sy’n dod yn ddigartref.
Matters of concern arise from this report, including the lack of research and basic information needed to deal with homeless people, but the most obvious is that the target time to deal with rough sleeping has been extended. According to the report, that target was not achieved:
Mae nifer o faterion sy’n achosi pryder yn yr adroddiad hwn, gan gynnwys y ffaith nad oes digon o ymchwil a gwybodaeth sylfaenol sy’n anghenrheidiol i ymdrin â phobl ddigartref. Ond y mater amlycaf yw’r ffaith bod y cyfnod a bennwyd ar gyfer ymdrin â chysgu ar y stryd wedi ei ymestyn. Yn ôl yr adroddiad, ni chyrhaeddwyd y targed hwnnw:
‘due to difficulties with funding, planning and infrastructure.’
Heavy political input is needed to get the show on the road.
Mae angen mewnbwn gwleidyddol sylweddol i roi hwb i hyn.
There are concerns about the lack of specific targets and outcomes, and of clear recommendations to achieve them. Appendix 1, written by Dr Elaine Mullan, has positive suggestions on the way forward. They would not all be easy to achieve, nor will they happen without the necessary funding. I think that Plaid Cymru would support all of her recommendations. What status does that appendix have? Will its recommendations be taken forward through the Local Government and Housing Committee?
Cyfyd pryderon ynglŷn â’r ffaith na osodwyd targedau a chanlyniadau penodol, nac argymhellion clir i’w cyflawni. Mae Atodiad 1, a ysgrifennwyd gan Dr Elaine Mullan, yn cynnwys awgrymiadau cadarnhaol ar gyfer y ffordd ymlaen. Ni fyddai’n hawdd i’w cyflawni i gyd, ac ni fyddant yn digwydd ychwaith heb yr arian angenrheidiol. Credaf y byddai Plaid Cymru yn cefnogi pob un o’i hargymhellion. Pa statws sydd i’r atodiad hwnnw? A gaiff ei argymhellion eu datblygu drwy’r Pwyllgor Llywodraeth Leol a Thai?
Dr Mullan talks about the barriers facing those who try to go from being homeless to having a secure home, about the attitudes to the homeless and the less than constructive culture in some organisations. That must change. She also describes the different problems encountered in rural areas.
Mae Dr Mullan yn sôn am y rhwystrau a wyneba pobl ddigartref wrth iddynt geisio dod o hyd i gartref sefydlog, am yr agweddau tuag at bobl ddigartref a’r diwylliant negyddol braidd o fewn rhai mudiadau. Rhaid i hynny newid. Disgrifia hefyd y gwahanol broblemau a gyfyd mewn ardaloedd gwledig.
She mentions specific ideas: setting up day centres, keeping records, education, early intervention, an empty homes initiative, advice and support, and the principle of a foyer system. I acknowledge that there have been some problems with the way the foyer system works. She emphasises the need for a strategy and for standard monitoring of the achievement of objectives. We should support her ideas enthusiastically.
Mae’n crybwyll syniadau penodol: sefydlu canolfannau dydd, cadw cofnodion, addysg, ymyrryd yn gynnar, menter cartrefi gwag, cyngor a chymorth, ac egwyddor y system foyer. Cydnabyddaf fod problemau wedi codi o ran y ffordd y mae’r system foyer yn gweithio. Pwysleisia fod angen strategaeth a phroses safonol o fonitro sut y caiff amcanion eu cyflawni. Dylem gefnogi ei syniadau yn frwd.
Lastly, the Homelessness Bill is going before the House of Commons at present. Has the Government of Wales achieved enabling clauses to allow us to tackle the problems in Wales effectively in our own way? We do not want to be shackled by that Bill when we need to act.
Yn olaf, mae Tŷ’r Cyffredin yn ystyried y Mesur Digartrefedd ar hyn o bryd. A yw Llywodraeth Cymru wedi llwyddo i gynnwys cymalau galluogi sy’n caniatáu inni fynd i’r afael â’r problemau yng Nghymru yn ein ffordd ein hunain? Nid ydym am gael ein clymu gan y Mesur hwnnw pan fydd angen inni weithredu.
I want to talk about rural homelessness. Sadly, our experience in Wales is that the insular nature of some communities can lead to greater exclusion and stigmatisation of homeless people. That is probably a sin of omission, rather than commission, but it is one that many of us are guilty of, and a problem that we should own.
Hoffwn siarad am ddigartrefedd gwledig. Yn anffodus, yn ôl ein profiad yng Nghymru, gall natur ynysig rhai cymunedau beri mwy o allgáu a gwaradwyddo pobl ddigartref. Mae hynny yn bechod anwaith yn hytrach na phechod camwaith, ond y mae llawer ohonom wedi tramgwyddo yn hynny o beth, ac mae’n broblem y dylem ei pherchenogi.
We are often guilty in the countryside of believing that homelessness is only about young people living on urban streets. It is patently not so. It is also a problem for young people in rural and coastal areas, especially where opportunities for renting are often seasonal. We could find that this becomes more of a problem in the wake of the foot and mouth disease outbreak, where some tourism operators are now trying to offload their cottages and other properties. It is a problem for middle-aged people, sometimes following marriage and family breakdown, who will move heaven and earth to hide the fact that they do not have a permanent home. They also slip through the net. It is definitely a problem for our older people, many of whom live in dire straits in privately rented accommodation. Sometimes they will live on estates where the rent, to be fair, is minimal, but so are their comforts.
Yr ydym ni yng nghefn gwlad yn aml yn camsynied drwy gredu bod digartrefedd ond yn ymwneud â phobl ifanc ar strydoedd y dref. Mae’n amlwg nad yw hynny yn wir. Mae’n broblem hefyd i bobl ifanc mewn ardaloedd gwledig ac arfordirol, yn arbennig lle mae’r cyfle i rentu llety yn aml yn dymhorol. Mae’n ddigon posibl y bydd hyn yn dod yn fwy o broblem yn sgîl clwy’r traed a’r genau, lle y mae rhai cwmnïau twristiaeth yn ceisio cael gwared ar eu bythynnod a’u heiddo bellach. Mae’n broblem i bobl canol oed, weithiau ar ôl tor-priodas neu chwalfa deuluol, a fydd yn gwneud popeth o fewn eu gallu i gelu’r ffaith nad oes ganddynt gartref sefydlog. Maent hwy hefyd yn llithro drwy’r fagl. Yn sicr mae’n broblem i bobl hŷn, gyda llawer ohonynt yn byw mewn tlodi dybryd mewn llety a rentir yn breifat. Weithiau byddant yn byw ar ystadau, lle y mae’r rhent yn isel iawn, a bod yn deg, ond bach iawn hefyd yw eu cysuron.
Neither of the local authorities of the two counties that my constituency straddles—Pembrokeshire and Carmarthenshire—has a homelessness strategy. However, I note that it is not only rural local authorities that have not yet grasped the nettle, so I do not think that they should be treated differently. Carmarthenshire has no figures for homeless people and rough sleepers, which does not surprise me because neither did Pembrokeshire until a few years ago. Pembrokeshire County Council tried to conduct surveys with community councils, which would return papers saying that there was no problem in their village or town. Pembrokeshire now has figures of 300 single homeless people and 75 rough sleepers. Those figures are absolutely enormous and are worrying, but it is more worrying when they remain hidden. I commend the services that identified and highlighted the local problems in Pembrokeshire for their work: the Pembrokeshire Association of Single Homeless, the Citizens Advice Bureaux and Women’s Aid. There are similar good organisations in Carmarthenshire, and I hope that they will be encouraged to contribute to collecting statistics.
Nid oes gan yr naill awdurdod lleol na’r llall yn fy etholaeth i—Cyngor Sir Penfro a Chyngor Sir Caerfyrddin—strategaeth ar ddigartrefedd. Fodd bynnag, nodaf nad awdurdodau lleol gwledig yn unig sydd heb fynd i’r afael â hyn, felly ni chredaf y dylid eu trin yn wahanol. Nid oes gan Sir Gaerfyrddin unrhyw ffigurau ar gyfer pobl ddigartref a phobl sy’n cysgu ar y stryd. Nid yw hynny yn peri syndod imi am nad oedd gan Sir Benfro ychwaith tan ychydig flynyddoedd yn ôl. Ceisiodd Cyngor Sir Penfro gynnal arolygon ar y cyd â chynghorau cymuned, a fyddai’n dychwelyd y papurau gan ddweud nad oedd problem o gwbl yn eu pentref neu eu tref hwy. Bellach mae ffigurau gan Sir Benfro sy’n nodi bod 300 o bobl sengl yn ddigartref a 75 o bobl yn cysgu ar y stryd. Mae’r ffigurau hynny yn echrydus ac yn achos pryder, ond mae’n achos pryder mwy byth pan fônt yn gudd. Cymeradwyaf y gwasanaethau sydd wedi nodi a thynnu sylw at y problemau lleol yn Sir Benfro am eu gwaith: Cymdeithas Pobl Sengl Digartref Sir Benfro, y Canolfannau Cynghori a Chymorth i Fenywod. Mae mudiadau da cyffelyb yn Sir Gaerfyrddin, a gobeithiaf y cânt eu hannog i gyfrannu at y gwaith o gasglu ystadegau.
I hope that when we come to our national strategy, we will strengthen links with voluntary organisations so that we can bring our homeless people in urban and rural areas out of the shadows, and acknowledge our ownership of their problem.
Gobeithiaf y byddwn yn atgyfnerthu’r cysylltiadau â’r mudiadau gwirfoddol pan luniwn ein strategaeth genedlaethol, er mwyn inni dynnu ein pobl ddigartref mewn ardaloedd trefol a gwledig o’r cysgodion, a chydnabod mai ein problem ni ydyw.
I welcome the strategy. I am sorry that Peter Law has left the Chamber, as I wanted to hit back at him on the political points against the Conservatives.
Croesawaf y strategaeth. Mae’n ddrwg gennyf nodi fod Peter Law wedi gadael y Siambr, am fy mod am daro’r pwyth yn ôl o ran y pwyntiau gwleidyddol a wnaeth ar draul y Ceidwadwyr.
My one large reservation on this subject is anti-social behaviour, which causes many problems in some areas. Last week, the Isle of Anglesey County Council attained its first order against a young man. That system could eventually mean that people have to be moved to other areas. We must address the problem of behaviour. Bringing people with drug and alcohol problems and prison records into areas is a particular problem, the occurrence of which we must reduce. I would like to see a greater emphasis on prevention among young people.
Yr unig amheuaeth fawr sydd gennyf ar y pwnc hwn yw ymddygiad gwrth-gymdeithasol, sy’n achosi llawer o broblemau mewn rhai ardaloedd. Yr wythnos diwethaf, enillodd Cyngor Sir Ynys Môn ei orchymyn cyntaf yn erbyn gŵr ifanc. Gallai’r system honno olygu y bydd yn rhaid i bobl gael eu symud i ardaloedd eraill yn y pen draw. Rhaid inni fynd i’r afael â phroblem ymddygiad. Mae symud pobl sydd â phroblemau sy’n gysylltiedig â chyffuriau ac alcohol ac sydd wedi bod yn y carchar i mewn i ardaloedd yn broblem arbennig, a rhaid inni leihau nifer yr achosion hynny. Hoffwn weld mwy o bwyslais ar atal ymhlith pobl ifanc.
On housing, we must understand the need to provide facilities for children. It is all very well to talk of past Conservative Governments. I recently attended a meeting here in Cardiff Bay where members of the local community were criticising the lack of facilities for young people and asking what young people were meant to do. The problem was that the young people were making mischief and causing damage in the bay. In considering homelessness, we must integrate these people into our society. However, they must come in on a level footing and understand that those who already live in the community have standards and that all elements of the community must work together. Tremendous work is being done in many council areas, with communities working together. Young mothers and other groups are creating facilities for young people and for themselves on housing estates.
O ran tai, rhaid inni ddeall bod angen darparu cyfleusterau i blant. Mae’n ddigon hawdd cyfeirio at Lywodraethau Ceidwadol y gorffennol. Mynychais gyfarfod yma ym Mae Caerdydd yn ddiweddar lle yr oedd y bobl leol yn beirniadu’r ffaith nad oedd cyfleusterau i bobl ifanc ac yn gofyn beth ddylai pobl ifanc ei wneud. Y broblem oedd bod y bobl ifanc yn camymddwyn ac yn achosi difrod yn y bae. O ystyried digartrefedd, rhaid inni sicrhau bod y bobl hyn yn dod yn rhan o’n cymdeithas. Fodd bynnag, rhaid iddynt ddod yn rhan o’n cymuned mewn ffordd deg gan ddeall bod safonau gan y rhai sydd eisoes yn y byw yn y gymuned a bod yn rhaid i bawb yn y gymuned gydweithio. Mae llawer o gynghorau yn gwneud gwaith gwych o fewn eu hardaloedd, gyda chymunedau yn cydweithio. Mae mamau ifanc a grwpiau eraill yn creu cyfleusterau i bobl ifanc ac iddynt hwy eu hunain ar ystadau tai.
We must be careful to intermingle all classes of people. Everyone must have the same understanding so that we can all get along and start working together. Money must be directed to communities to ensure that we have a community understanding.
Rhaid inni ofalu bod pob dosbarth o bobl yn ymwneud â’i gilydd. Rhaid i bawb fod â’r un ddealltwriaeth er mwyn inni oll gyd-dynnu a dechrau gweithio gyda’n gilydd. Rhaid rhoi arian i gymunedau i sicrhau bod gennym gyd-ddealltwriaeth yn y gymuned.
I welcome the priority given by the Assembly to homelessness, as can be seen from the many debates and decisions on the issue, and by the substantial increase in funding. Homelessness is a priority for the Government of Wales, the Local Government and Housing Committee and for Assembly Members in general. This important subject deserves that level of concern and attention.
Croesawaf y flaenoriaeth y mae’r Cynulliad wedi ei rhoi i ddigartrefedd, fel y gellir gweld o’r dadleuon a’r penderfyniadau lu ar y mater hwn, ynghyd â’r cynnydd sylweddol o ran cyllid. Mae digartrefedd yn flaenoriaeth gan Lywodraeth Cymru, y Pwyllgor Llywodraeth Leol a Thai ac Aelodau’r Cynulliad yn gyffredinol. Mae’r pwnc pwysig hwn yn haeddu’r pryder a’r sylw hynny.
Rough sleeping is only the tip of the homelessness iceberg. Homelessness is not just about housing. A multi-agency approach is required, as Members have said. Homelessness can involve mental health, relationships, poverty, employment, alcohol and drug misuse, psychological difficulties and traumas related to sex abuse or problems in local authority care. It is a complex matter that requires a complex approach.
Dim ond rhan fach o ddigartrefedd yw cysgu ar y stryd. Nid dim ond â thai y mae a wnelo digartrefedd. Mae angen ymagwedd aml-asiantaeth, fel y dywedodd yr Aelodau. Gall digartrefedd fod yn gysylltiedig â iechyd meddwl, cydberthnasau, tlodi, cyflogaeth, camddefnyddio alcohol a chyffuriau, anawsterau seicolegol a thrawma sy’n ymwneud â cham-drin yn rhywiol neu broblemau mewn gofal awdurdod lleol. Mae’n fater cymhleth sy’n gofyn inni ei drin mewn ffordd gymhleth.
On alcohol and drug misuse, I echo Geraint Davies’s comments about the difficulties that some residential homes are experiencing because of the new regulations that will be introduced under the Care Standards Act 2000. Those difficulties must be addressed. The residential homes may need support from the Assembly.
O ran camddefnyddio alcohol a chyffuriau, ategaf sylwadau Geraint Davies ynglŷn â’r anawsterau a wyneba rhai cartrefi preswyl oherwydd y rheoliadau newydd a gyflwynir o dan Ddeddf Safonau Gofal 2000. Rhaid mynd i’r afael â’r anawsterau hynny. Efallai y bydd angen i’r Cynulliad roi cymorth i’r cartrefi preswyl.
This is a problem, as Members know. A three-month monitoring survey conducted during the summer of last year by Newport Action for the Single Homeless, Newport County Borough Council and substance misuse groups found 187 single homeless people in the Newport county borough area. Sixty eight per cent of them were men, and 32 per cent were women. They were sleeping in hostels, on friends’ floors, in relatives’ homes or in bed and breakfast accommodation. They had a variety of problems.
Mae hon yn broblem, fel y gŵyr yr Aelodau. Canfuwyd mewn arolwg monitro tri mis a gynhaliwyd yn ystod yr haf diwethaf gan Gweithredu dros Bobl Sengl Ddigartref yng Nghasnewydd, Cyngor Bwrdeistref Sirol Casnewydd a grwpiau sy’n ymwneud â chamddefnyddio sylweddau fod 187 o bobl sengl digartref o fewn ardal cyngor bwrdeistref sirol Casnewydd. Yr oedd 68 y cant ohonynt yn ddynion ac yr oedd 32 y cant yn fenywod. Yr oeddent yn cysgu mewn hosteli, neu ar lawr ffrindiau, yng nghartrefi perthnasau neu mewn llety gwely a brecwast. Yr oedd ganddynt broblemau amrywiol.
I will concentrate on people who have recently been released from custody—a group that has been mentioned several times today. It is one of the new categories of priority need. Local authorities have various interpretations of how to deal with ex-offenders who are coming out of custody. Some local authorities in Wales apparently expect people to present themselves within five days of release if they are to receive priority. There is talk that one local authority had a one-day requirement; I am not sure whether that is true as I received the information third-hand, as it were. Another local authority treats ex-offenders as being intentionally homeless because they committed an offence. We must ensure that there is a more consistent approach and that the spirit of the relevant legislation is observed. The Assembly must give firm guidance to ensure that.
Canolbwyntiaf ar bobl sydd wedi eu rhyddhau o’r ddalfa yn ddiweddar—grŵp y cyfeiriwyd ato sawl gwaith heddiw. Mae’n un o’r categorïau newydd o angen blaenoriaethol. Mae’r awdurdodau lleol yn dehongli’r ffordd y dylid ymdrin â chyn-droseddwyr sy’n cael eu rhyddhau o’r ddalfa mewn amryw ffyrdd. Mae’n debyg bod rhai awdurdodau lleol yng Nghymru yn disgwyl i bobl gysylltu â hwy o fewn pum diwrnod i’w rhyddhau os ydynt am gael blaenoriaeth. Mae sôn bod un awdurdod lleol yn gweithredu gofyniad un diwrnod; nid wyf yn siŵr a yw hynny yn wir gan na chefais y wybodaeth o lygad y ffynnon, fel petai. Mae un awdurdod lleol arall yn trin cyn-drosedwyr fel pobl sy’n ddigartref yn fwriadol am eu bod wedi cyflawni trosedd. Rhaid inni sicrhau y caiff y mater hwn ei drin mewn modd mwy cyson a’n bod yn cadw at ysbryd y ddeddfwriaeth berthnasol. Rhaid i’r Cynulliad roi canllawiau cadarn i sicrhau hynny.
We should make our views as an institution known in Westminster on the lesser entitlement of 16 to 25-year-olds to housing benefit, as compared to older people. Shelter and many other organisations have long highlighted the hardship that is caused by these regulations. There is great hardship where there is no family support. We should make our view known that we do not want 16 to 25-year-olds to suffer in this way.
Dylem ni fel corff fynegi ein barn i San Steffan ynglŷn â’r ffaith fod gan bobl 16 i 25 oed lai o hawl i gael budd-dal tai o’u cymharu â phobl hŷn. Mae Shelter a llawer o fudiadau eraill wedi tynnu sylw at y caledi a achosir gan y rheoliadau ers tro. Mae caledi mawr lle na fo teulu i gynnal y bobl ifanc hyn. Dylem fynegi ein barn nad ydym am i bobl 16 i 25 mlwydd oed ddioddef yn y modd hwn.
I believe that the Assembly’s commitment has been impressive to date. We have shown genuine concern and have taken action to address these problems. The substantial increases in funding demonstrates that concern. Those increases must be sustained. We know that the new requirements of local authorities, the Government in Wales and agencies will require new areas of service provision to address the problems that we know exist. That will require a continual and sustained increase in funding. I hope that that will happen.
Credaf fod ymrwymiad y Cynulliad wedi bod yn glodwiw hyd yma. Yr ydym wedi dangos ein bod yn gwir bryderu ac wedi cymryd camau i fynd i’r afael â’r problemau hyn. Dangosir ein pryder drwy’r penderfyniad i gynyddu’r cyllid yn sylweddol. Rhaid parhau i gynyddu’r cyllid yn y fath fodd. Gwyddom y bydd gofynion newydd awdurdodau lleol, Llywodraeth Cymru a’r asiantaethau yn gofyn am ddarparu gwasanaethau newydd i fynd i’r afael â’r problemau y gwyddom sydd eisoes yn bodoli. Bydd hynny yn gofyn inni barhau i gynyddu’r cyllid. Gobeithiaf y digwydd hynny.
In closing, I will comment, as did Peter Law, on the agencies that deal with homelessness in Wales. The agency that I know best is Newport Action for the Single Homeless. It does much good work and I congratulate and pay tribute to Paul Bevan, Richard Frame and all the others involved. They are doing a great job and long may they continue to do so.
I gloi, gwnaf sylwadau, fel y gwnaeth Peter Law, ar yr asiantaethau sy’n ymdrin â digartrefedd yng Nghymru. Yr asiantaeth sydd fwyaf cyfarwydd imi yw Gweithredu dros Bobl Sengl Ddigartref yng Nghasnewydd. Gwna lawer o waith da a hoffwn longyfarch a thalu teyrnged i Paul Bevan, Richard Frame a phawb arall sy’n gysylltiedig â hi. Gwnant waith ardderchog a hir y parhaed felly.
Peter Black The Deputy Minister for Local Government spoken in English p. 62
Peter Black Y Dirprwy Weinidog dros Lywodraeth Leol siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 62
I welcome the opportunity to close today’s debate. I also welcome the debate itself. It has been valuable to listen to the points of view of all Members. As part of the process of compiling this report, we listened to and consulted with people as to how best we can take forward our commitment to tackling homelessness and rough sleeping.
Croesawaf y cyfle i gloi ein dadl heddiw. Croesawaf y ddadl ei hun hefyd. Bu’n werthfawr gwrando ar safbwyntiau’r holl Aelodau. Yn rhan o’r broses o lunio’r adroddiad hwn, gwrandawyd ar bobl ac ymgynghorwyd â hwy ynglŷn â’r ffordd orau o ddatblygu ein hymrwymiad i fynd i’r afael â digartrefedd a chysgu ar y stryd.
It has been said that homelessness is, first and foremost, a personal crisis. We have only begun to scratch the surface of the problem, as solutions have often been fragmented and largely focused on housing. For some, the experience is short term and resolved simply by finding the requisite housing. However, for many, it is bound up with problems and disadvantages in other aspects of their lives and, in these circumstances, they will need support and advice in order to resettle themselves in secure accommodation.
Dywedwyd mai argyfwng personol yw digartrefedd yn bennaf. Dim ond megis dechrau mynd i’r afael â’r broblem yr ydym, gan fod yr atebion yn aml wedi bod yn ddarniog gan ganolbwyntio ar dai yn bennaf. I rai pobl, mae’n brofiad byrdymor sy’n cael ei ddatrys drwy ddod o hyd i’r llety sydd ei angen. Fodd bynnag, i lawer, mae problemau ac anfanteision mewn agweddau eraill ar eu bywydau ynghlwm wrtho ac, o dan yr amgylchiadau hyn, bydd angen cymorth a chyngor arnynt er mwyn iddynt ymsefydlu mewn llety sefydlog.
The commission has provided us with an insight and understanding of the problems and issues that we all face, and a better appreciation of the restrictions within which each sector has to operate. Bringing our partners together in this way has also fostered much better relationships and joint working on the ground, which will be of benefit in the future.
Bu gwaith y comisiwn yn fodd inni amgyffred a deall y problemau a’r materion a wynebwn ni oll, ac inni ddeall yn well y cyfyngiadau y mae’n rhaid i bob sector weithredu oddi mewn iddynt. Mae tynnu ein partneriaeth ynghyd yn y modd hwn hefyd wedi meithrin cydberthnasau a chydweithio llawer gwell ar lawr gwlad, a fydd yn fuddiol yn y dyfodol.
I read in The Big Issue last week that one in nine young people spend at least one night sleeping on the streets before they are 16. That is a shocking statistic. One important fact that the commission discovered is that young people are increasingly becoming affected by homelessness and social exclusion and the range of factors that impinge on that. Janet Ryder made the valid point that young people do not know where to access advice. That point was driven home to us by a film that some of us saw last week, which was produced by young people in Swansea who have experienced homelessness.
Darllenais yn The Big Issue yr wythnos diwethaf fod un o bob naw o bobl ifanc yn cysgu ar y stryd drwy’r nos o leiaf unwaith cyn iddynt gyrraedd 16 oed. Mae hwnnw yn ystadegyn echrydus. Un ffaith bwysig a ddarganfu’r comisiwn yw bod digartrefedd ac allgáu cymdeithasol a’r amrywiaeth o ffactorau sydd ynghlwm â’r rheini yn effeithio fwyfwy ar bobl ifanc. Gwnaeth Janet Ryder bwynt dilys ynglŷn â’r ffaith na ŵyr pobl ifanc ble i droi am gyngor. Pwysleisiwyd y pwynt hwnnw inni mewn ffilm a wyliodd rhai ohonom yr wythnos diwethaf, a gynhyrchwyd gan bobl ifanc yn Abertawe â phrofiad o fod yn ddigartref.
Several schemes seek to tackle this issue. I commend the plastic information cards that are distributed to homeless people in Swansea, detailing how they can access services. I believe that the scheme has also been implemented in Newport. We must visit schools to provide young people with the necessary education about the consequences of homelessness, of leaving home before they are prepared to do so and all the other associated issues. Taking the film—which we saw last week—around schools and around Wales is one way of doing that.
Mae sawl cynllun yn ceisio mynd i’r afael â’r mater hwn. Cymeradwyaf y cardiau gwybodaeth plastig a ddosberthir i bobl ddigartref yn Abertawe. Maent yn rhoi manylion iddynt ar sut y gellir cael gafael ar wasanaethau. Credaf fod y cynllun wedi ei roi ar waith yng Nghasnewydd hefyd. Rhaid inni ymweld ag ysgolion i roi’r addysg angenrheidiol i bobl ifanc ynghylch canlyniadau digartrefedd, gadael cartref cyn eu bod yn barod i wneud hynny a’r holl faterion cysylltiedig. Dangos y ffilm—a wyliasom yr wythnos diwethaf—mewn ysgolion a ledled Cymru yw un ffordd o wneud hynny.
The issue of cost has been raised. Extra money is available. How much we must spend on homelessness will largely depend on the issues that arise in the local homelessness strategies. Setting targets and outcomes—which was also raised—forms the basis for a national homelessness strategy. However, homelessness is best tackled at a local level, and local councils, as the strategic housing authority, know best what action and facilities are needed in their area. Forming the local homelessness plan is one way of focusing on those issues. Information can then be fed back to be dealt with by the National Assembly. Janet Ryder mentioned the report’s recommendation about convening a standing body to consider this issue. The Government intends to use the housing consultative forum—as Janet outlined—as a means of monitoring this strategy rather than setting up a separate body, as the report recommends. It will monitor and evaluate the action of the National Assembly and local councils, as referred to by William Graham.
Codwyd mater cost. Mae arian ychwanegol ar gael. Mae’r symiau y bydd yn rhaid inni eu gwario ar ddigartrefedd yn dibynnu i raddau helaeth ar y materion a gyfyd yn y strategaethau digartrefedd lleol. Gosod targedau a chanlyniadau—a godwyd hefyd—fydd y sail ar gyfer strategaeth ddigartrefedd genedlaethol. Fodd bynnag, ar lefel leol y mae’r ffordd orau o fynd i’r afael â digartrefedd, a’r cynghorau lleol, fel yr awdurdodau tai strategol, a ŵyr orau lle y mae angen cymryd camau a darparu cyfleusterau o fewn eu hardal. Mae llunio cynllun digartrefedd lleol yn un ffordd o ganolbwyntio ar y materion hynny. Yna gellir trosglwyddo gwybodaeth i’r Cynulliad Cenedlaethol ymdrin â hi. Cyfeiriodd Janet Ryder at un o argymhellion yr adroddiad ynglŷn â sefydlu corff sefydlog i ystyried y mater hwn. Bwriada’r Llywodraeth ddefnyddio’r fforwm ymgynghorol ar dai—fel y nododd Janet—fel cyfrwng o fonitro’r strategaeth hon yn hytrach na sefydlu corff ar wahân, fel yr argymhella’r adroddiad. Bydd yn monitro ac yn gwerthuso’r camau a gymerir gan y Cynulliad Cenedlaethol a chynghorau lleol, fel y crybwyllwyd gan William Graham.
There were many references to Dr Elaine Mullan and we must recognise the valuable work that she did for the commission. However, several recommendations in the report, in relation to research, indicate the huge amount of work that still needs to be done. That is being tackled. The report that she compiled, in limited time, forms part of the report’s recommendations, as Janet Davies said. The objective of eliminating the need to sleep rough by 2003 was also raised in the debate. We must be honest with ourselves rather than live under the illusion that we can achieve that objective when so much work still needs to be done. The new target in the National Assembly’s latest strategic document, which relates to the number of councils that have local homelessness strategies in place, is a better measure of how effectively we are dealing with this issue. The report makes valuable recommendations in terms of prevention and support, cutting across all the Assembly’s functions, including education and training for homeless people and access to healthcare. There are also strong recommendations on housing benefit, which is a key cause of homelessness, particularly among 16 to 25-year-olds, as John Griffiths mentioned earlier. I urge the UK Government to respond positively to these recommendations. Geraint Davies’s point about health improvement plans is a valid point, which we hope to address as a result of this report. It is important that when health authorities, in particular, draw up their plans, they take account of how homeless people access health services. That was reflected in the report.
Cafwyd sawl cyfeiriad at Dr Elaine Mullan a rhaid inni gydnabod y gwaith gwerthfawr a wnaeth dros y comisiwn. Fodd bynnag, dengys nifer o argymhellion yn yr adroddiad fod angen gwneud llawer iawn o waith o hyd o ran ymchwil. Eir i’r afael â hynny. Mae’r adroddiad a luniwyd ganddi, mewn amser cyfyngedig, yn rhan o argymhellion yr adroddiad, fel y dywedodd Janet Davies. Codwyd y nod o ddileu’r angen i gysgu ar y stryd erbyn 2003 hefyd yn y ddadl hon. Rhaid inni fod yn onest yn hytrach na thwyllo ein hunain ein bod yn gallu cyflawni’r nod hwnnw pan fo cymaint o waith i’w wneud o hyd. Bydd targed newydd yn nogfen strategol ddiweddaraf y Cynulliad Cenedlaethol, sy’n ymwneud â nifer y cynghorau sydd wedi rhoi strategaethau digartrefedd lleol ar waith, yn well llinyn mesur ar gyfer mesur pa mor effeithiol yr ydym wrth ymdrin â’r mater hwn. Gwna’r adroddiad argymhellion gwerthfawr o ran camau ataliol a chymorth, sy’n rhychwantu pob un o swyddogaethau’r Cynulliad, gan gynnwys addysg a hyfforddiant ar gyfer pobl ddigartref a mynediad i ofal iechyd. Mae argymhellion cryf hefyd ar fudd-dal tai, sef un o brif achosion digartrefedd, yn enwedig ymhlith pobl 16 i 25 mlwydd oed, fel y nododd John Griffiths yn gynharach. Apeliaf ar Lywodraeth y DU i ymateb yn gadarnhaol i’r argymhellion hyn. Mae pwynt Geraint Davies ynglŷn â chynlluniau gwella iechyd yn un dilys a gobeithiwn ymdrin ag ef o ganlyniad i’r adroddiad hwn. Mae’n bwysig bod awdurdodau iechyd, yn arbennig, wrth lunio eu cynlluniau, yn ystyried sut y mae pobl ddigartref yn cael gafael ar wasanaethau iechyd. Adlewyrchwyd hynny yn yr adroddiad.
Christine Gwyther and William Graham referred to rural homelessness. They will know that there are specific recommendations on that issue in the report. The local homelessness strategy will be important, as local councils do not always recognise the problem in rural areas. The fact that they will now be obliged to produce this strategy will help to focus their minds on that issue. We must note the additional transport costs involved in accessing services in rural areas and we must ensure that we provide local and accessible services. Gwenda Thomas’s expertise and contribution on young people was invaluable to the commission and I welcome her contribution to this debate. It is important that we take many of her suggestions on board as they help to inform us, particularly in relation to the child protection issues relating to homelessness.
Cyfeiriodd Christine Gwyther a William Graham at ddigartrefedd gwledig. Gwyddant fod argymhellion penodol ar y mater hwnnw yn yr adroddiad. Bydd strategaethau digartrefedd lleol yn bwysig, gan nad yw cynghorau lleol bob amser yn cydnabod y broblem mewn ardaloedd gwledig. Mae’r ffaith y bydd dyletswydd arnynt i gynhyrchu’r strategaeth hon yn gorfodi iddynt feddwl am y mater hwn. Rhaid inni nodi’r costau trafnidiaeth ychwanegol sy’n gysylltiedig â defnyddio gwasanaethau mewn ardaloedd gwledig a rhaid inni sicrhau ein bod yn darparu gwasanaethau lleol a hygyrch. Yr oedd arbenigedd a chyfraniad Gwenda Thomas ynghylch pobl ifanc yn amhrisiadwy i’r comisiwn a chroesawaf ei chyfraniad i’r ddadl hon. Mae’n bwysig inni weithredu ar lawer o’i hawgrymiadau gan y byddant yn helpu i roi arweiniad inni, yn enwedig mewn perthynas â materion diogelu plant sy’n ymwneud â digartrefedd.
Several Members raised the funding issue. We must make clear that our commitment to homelessness is underlined by the eight-fold increase in money that has been invested in homelessness during this Assembly’s lifetime. That was outlined by the Minister in introducing this debate. Peter Law raised the issue of assessment of support needs and the report was impressed with the pilot work currently underway in Bridgend. It is recognised as a valid approach to try to prevent homelessness. The report recommends that we evaluate that work and look to roll it across Wales. We intend to do that as part of our response to the report. Like Peter Law, I pay tribute to the many workers and organisations who work so hard to deal with homelessness and its many problems. I also pay tribute to Peter’s work on homelessness when he was Minister.
Cododd nifer o Aelodau fater cyllid. Rhaid inni egluro bod ein hymrwymiad i ddigartrefedd wedi’i ategu gan y ffaith inni fuddsoddi wyth gwaith yn fwy o arian ym maes digartrefedd yn ystod tymor hwn y Cynulliad. Nodwyd hynny gan y Gweinidog wrth gyflwyno’r ddadl hon. Cododd Peter Law y mater o asesu anghenion cymorth ac yr oedd yr adroddiad yn canmol y gwaith peilot a wneir ar hyn o bryd ym Mhen-y-bont ar Ogwr. Fe’i cydnabyddir fel dull dilys o geisio atal digartrefedd. Mae’r adroddiad yn argymell y dylem werthuso’r gwaith hwnnw ac ystyried ei gyflwyno ledled Cymru. Bwriadwn wneud hynny yn rhan o’n hymateb i’r adroddiad. Fel Peter Law, talaf deyrnged i’r gweithwyr a’r mudiadau lu sy’n gweithio mor galed i fynd i’r afael â digartrefedd a’i broblemau niferus. Talaf deyrnged hefyd i waith Peter ar ddigartrefedd pan oedd yn Weinidog.
Counting homeless people is not a simple matter. We must get this right. That is made clear by one of the appendices to the report. If the numbers went up after 1997, as David Davies said, it was because the previous Conservative Government refused to recognise that there was a problem and did not count homeless people. We cannot reduce this to targets. This is about people and their problems and how we can solve this.
Nid peth hawdd yw cyfrif pobl ddigartref. Rhaid inni lwyddo yn hyn o beth. Pwysleisir hynny yn un o atodiadau’r adroddiad. Os cynyddodd y ffigurau ar ôl 1997, fel y dywedodd David Davies, y rheswm dros hynny oedd bod y Llywodraeth Geidwadol flaenorol wedi gwrthod cydnabod bod problem ac nad oedd wedi cyfrif y bobl ddigartref. Nid mater o osod targedau ydyw. Mae a wnelo â phobl a’u problemau a’r ffordd y gallwn ddatrys hyn.
Will you give way?
A ildiwch?
No, I will not give way, David. I will flatter you again in a minute.
Na wnaf, David. Fe’ch sebonaf eto mewn ennyd.
David Davies a gododd—
David Davies rose—
John Marek The Deputy Presiding Officer spoken in English p. 66
John Marek Y Dirprwy Lywydd siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 66
Order. Peter is not giving way. Please sit down.
Trefn. Nid yw Peter yn ildio. Eisteddwch os gwelwch yn dda.
If you wait until I have a go at you later, you can intervene then.
Os arhoswch imi ymosod arnoch yn nes ymlaen, cewch ymyrryd bryd hynny.
David also talks about prisoners. I am afraid that it is the same tired rhetoric from David Davies. The fact is that the ex-prisoners who are affected by these Orders have paid the price for their crimes and are much less likely to re-offend if they are re-housed quickly and found meaningful employment. You may not recognise the value of rehabilitating criminals, David, but we do. It is incumbent on society to offer the necessary support to help them resettle into society.
Mae David hefyd yn sôn am garcharorion. Ofnaf mai’r un hen rethreg a glywn gan David Davies. Y gwir amdani yw bod y cyn-garcharorion y mae’r Gorchmynion hyn yn effeithio arnynt wedi talu’r pris am eu troseddau ac yn llawer llai tebygol o droseddu eto os cânt eu hailgartrefu’n gyflym ac os cânt waith ystyrlon. Efallai nad ydych chi yn cydnabod gwerth adsefydlu troseddwyr, David, ond yr ydym ni. Mae dyletswydd ar gymdeithas i roi’r cymorth sydd ei angen arnynt i ymsefydlu yn y gymdeithas.
Do you also recognise the importance of looking after those who have not committed a crime?
A ydych hefyd yn cydnabod pwysigrwydd gofalu am y rhai nad ydynt wedi cyflawni trosedd?
Yes. However, we must also recognise that there is a re-offending problem. If we can quickly re-house people who have offended and find them jobs, we can ensure that they do not re-offend and we can start to tackle a huge law and order problem in this country.
Ydwyf. Fodd bynnag, rhaid inni hefyd gydnabod bod problem o ran aildroseddu. Os gallwn ailgartrefu troseddwyr yn gyflym a dod o hyd i waith iddynt, gallwn sicrhau nad ydynt yn troseddu eto a gallwn ddechrau mynd i’r afael â phroblem enfawr cyfraith a threfn yn y wlad hon.
We need to reject labelling homeless people as misfits and troublemakers, as implied by David Davies and Peter Rogers. They are individuals with problems, and we need to deal with those problems. However, anti-social tenants are not homeless and are unlikely to have been re-housed through homeless routes. The commission recognised the issues around drug misuse and the Care Standards Act 2000, and made recommendations on access to specialist support and for the Home Office, and we will take that up.
Mae angen inni ymwrthod rhag labelu pobl ddigartref yn rhai sy’n anaddas neu’n drafferthus, fel yr awgrymodd David Davies a Peter Rogers. Unigolion â phroblemau ydynt, ac mae angen inni ymdrin â’r problemau hynny. Fodd bynnag, nid digartref yw tenantiaid gwrth-gymdeithasol ac nid yw’n debygol y cânt eu hailgartrefu drwy ddulliau digartrefedd. Cydnabu’r comisiwn y materion sy’n gysylltiedig â chamddefnyddio cyffuriau a Deddf Safonau Gofal 2000, a gwnaeth argymhellion ar fynediad i gymorth arbenigol ac argymhellion ar gyfer y Swyddfa Gartref, a gweithredwn ar hynny.
I turn to the amendments. The Government is happy to support amendments 1 and 2. We will not support amendment 3, the content of which is implied in the motion and therefore does not need to be repeated in an amendment. Similarly, we will not support amendment 4, which does not add to the motion other than to highlight the issue of resources, which we have dealt with in our response. We will not support amendments 5 and 6. I have referred to the extensive consultation that has already taken place. We are continuing to consult on this. Our commitment is to further consultation in developing a national homelessness strategy and guidance for local authorities.
Trof at y gwelliannau. Mae’r Llywodraeth yn fwy na pharod i gefnogi gwelliannau 1 a 2. Ni chefnogwn welliant 3, gan fod ei gynnwys wedi ei gyfleu yn y cynnig ac felly nid oes angen ei ailadrodd mewn gwelliant. Yn yr un modd, ni chefnogwn welliant 4, nad yw’n ychwanegu dim at y cynnig heblaw nodi mater adnoddau, yr ymdriniwyd ag ef yn ein hymateb. Ni chefnogwn welliannau 5 a 6. Cyfeiriais at yr ymgynghoriad helaeth a wnaethpwyd eisoes. Parhawn i ymgynghori ar hyn. Yr ydym yn ymrwymo i ymgynghori ymhellach wrth ddatblygu strategaeth ddigartrefedd genedlaethol a chanllawiau i’r awdurdodau lleol.
I commend the Homelessness Commission’s report, and the motion, to the Assembly.
Argymhellaf adroddiad y Comisiwn Digartrefedd, a’r cynnig, i’r Cynulliad.
Gwelliant 1 Janet Ryder t. 67
Amendment 1 Janet Ryder p. 67
DerbyniwydAdopted O blaidFor 46 YmatalAbstain 0 Yn erbynAgainst 0
Derbyniwyd y gwelliant.
Amendment carried.
Sut y pleidleisiodd yr AelodauHow Members voted
O blaidFor (46)
- Mick Bates
- Peter Black
- Nick Bourne
- Eleanor Burnham
- Rosemary Butler
- Christine Chapman
- Andrew Davies
- David Davies
- Geraint Davies
- Glyn Davies
- Janet Davies
- Jocelyn Davies
- Ron Davies
- Sue Essex
- Delyth Evans
- Michael German
- Brian Gibbons
- William Graham
- John Griffiths
- Christine Gwyther
- Alison Halford
- Edwina Hart
- Jane Hutt
- Pauline Jarman
- Ann Jones
- Elin Jones
- Gareth Jones
- Ieuan Wyn Jones
- Peter Law
- Huw Lewis
- David Lloyd
- Val Lloyd
- David Melding
- Tom Middlehurst
- Jonathan Morgan
- Rhodri Morgan
- Lynne Neagle
- Alun Pugh
- Jenny Randerson
- Rod Richards
- Peter Rogers
- Janet Ryder
- Karen Sinclair
- Gwenda Thomas
- Rhodri Glyn Thomas
- Phil Williams
Gwelliant 2 Janet Ryder t. 68
Amendment 2 Janet Ryder p. 68
DerbyniwydAdopted O blaidFor 45 YmatalAbstain 0 Yn erbynAgainst 1
Derbyniwyd y gwelliant.
Amendment carried.
Sut y pleidleisiodd yr AelodauHow Members voted
O blaidFor (45)
- Mick Bates
- Peter Black
- Nick Bourne
- Eleanor Burnham
- Rosemary Butler
- Christine Chapman
- Andrew Davies
- David Davies
- Geraint Davies
- Glyn Davies
- Janet Davies
- Jocelyn Davies
- Ron Davies
- Sue Essex
- Delyth Evans
- Michael German
- Brian Gibbons
- William Graham
- John Griffiths
- Christine Gwyther
- Alison Halford
- Edwina Hart
- Jane Hutt
- Pauline Jarman
- Ann Jones
- Elin Jones
- Gareth Jones
- Ieuan Wyn Jones
- Peter Law
- Huw Lewis
- David Lloyd
- Val Lloyd
- David Melding
- Jonathan Morgan
- Rhodri Morgan
- Lynne Neagle
- Alun Pugh
- Jenny Randerson
- Rod Richards
- Peter Rogers
- Janet Ryder
- Karen Sinclair
- Gwenda Thomas
- Rhodri Glyn Thomas
- Phil Williams
Yn erbynAgainst (1)
- Tom Middlehurst
Gwelliant 3 Janet Ryder t. 69
Amendment 3 Janet Ryder p. 69
GwrthodwydRejected O blaidFor 20 YmatalAbstain 0 Yn erbynAgainst 26
Gwrthodwyd y gwelliant.
Amendment defeated.
Sut y pleidleisiodd yr AelodauHow Members voted
O blaidFor (20)
- Nick Bourne
- David Davies
- Geraint Davies
- Glyn Davies
- Janet Davies
- Jocelyn Davies
- William Graham
- Pauline Jarman
- Elin Jones
- Gareth Jones
- Ieuan Wyn Jones
- Peter Law
- David Lloyd
- David Melding
- Jonathan Morgan
- Rod Richards
- Peter Rogers
- Janet Ryder
- Rhodri Glyn Thomas
- Phil Williams
Yn erbynAgainst (26)
- Mick Bates
- Peter Black
- Eleanor Burnham
- Rosemary Butler
- Christine Chapman
- Andrew Davies
- Ron Davies
- Sue Essex
- Delyth Evans
- Michael German
- Brian Gibbons
- John Griffiths
- Christine Gwyther
- Alison Halford
- Edwina Hart
- Jane Hutt
- Ann Jones
- Huw Lewis
- Val Lloyd
- Tom Middlehurst
- Rhodri Morgan
- Lynne Neagle
- Alun Pugh
- Jenny Randerson
- Karen Sinclair
- Gwenda Thomas
Gwelliant 4 Janet Ryder t. 70
Amendment 4 Janet Ryder p. 70
GwrthodwydRejected O blaidFor 19 YmatalAbstain 0 Yn erbynAgainst 27
Gwrthodwyd y gwelliant.
Amendment defeated.
Sut y pleidleisiodd yr AelodauHow Members voted
O blaidFor (19)
- Nick Bourne
- David Davies
- Geraint Davies
- Glyn Davies
- Janet Davies
- Jocelyn Davies
- William Graham
- Pauline Jarman
- Elin Jones
- Gareth Jones
- Ieuan Wyn Jones
- David Lloyd
- David Melding
- Jonathan Morgan
- Rod Richards
- Peter Rogers
- Janet Ryder
- Rhodri Glyn Thomas
- Phil Williams
Yn erbynAgainst (27)
- Mick Bates
- Peter Black
- Eleanor Burnham
- Rosemary Butler
- Christine Chapman
- Andrew Davies
- Ron Davies
- Sue Essex
- Delyth Evans
- Michael German
- Brian Gibbons
- John Griffiths
- Christine Gwyther
- Alison Halford
- Edwina Hart
- Jane Hutt
- Ann Jones
- Peter Law
- Huw Lewis
- Val Lloyd
- Tom Middlehurst
- Rhodri Morgan
- Lynne Neagle
- Alun Pugh
- Jenny Randerson
- Karen Sinclair
- Gwenda Thomas
Gwelliant 5 William Graham t. 70
Amendment 5 William Graham p. 70
GwrthodwydRejected O blaidFor 8 YmatalAbstain 11 Yn erbynAgainst 27
Gwrthodwyd y gwelliant.
Amendment defeated.
Sut y pleidleisiodd yr AelodauHow Members voted
O blaidFor (8)
- Nick Bourne
- David Davies
- Glyn Davies
- William Graham
- David Melding
- Jonathan Morgan
- Rod Richards
- Peter Rogers
YmatalAbstain (11)
- Geraint Davies
- Janet Davies
- Jocelyn Davies
- Pauline Jarman
- Elin Jones
- Gareth Jones
- Ieuan Wyn Jones
- David Lloyd
- Janet Ryder
- Rhodri Glyn Thomas
- Phil Williams
Yn erbynAgainst (27)
- Mick Bates
- Peter Black
- Eleanor Burnham
- Rosemary Butler
- Christine Chapman
- Andrew Davies
- Ron Davies
- Sue Essex
- Delyth Evans
- Michael German
- Brian Gibbons
- John Griffiths
- Christine Gwyther
- Alison Halford
- Edwina Hart
- Jane Hutt
- Ann Jones
- Peter Law
- Huw Lewis
- Val Lloyd
- Tom Middlehurst
- Rhodri Morgan
- Lynne Neagle
- Alun Pugh
- Jenny Randerson
- Karen Sinclair
- Gwenda Thomas
Gwelliant 6 William Graham t. 71
Amendment 6 William Graham p. 71
GwrthodwydRejected O blaidFor 9 YmatalAbstain 10 Yn erbynAgainst 27
Gwrthodwyd y gwelliant.
Amendment defeated.
Sut y pleidleisiodd yr AelodauHow Members voted
O blaidFor (9)
- Nick Bourne
- Alun Cairns
- David Davies
- Glyn Davies
- William Graham
- David Melding
- Jonathan Morgan
- Rod Richards
- Peter Rogers
YmatalAbstain (10)
- Geraint Davies
- Janet Davies
- Pauline Jarman
- Elin Jones
- Gareth Jones
- Ieuan Wyn Jones
- David Lloyd
- Janet Ryder
- Rhodri Glyn Thomas
- Phil Williams
Yn erbynAgainst (27)
- Mick Bates
- Peter Black
- Eleanor Burnham
- Rosemary Butler
- Christine Chapman
- Andrew Davies
- Ron Davies
- Sue Essex
- Delyth Evans
- Michael German
- Brian Gibbons
- John Griffiths
- Christine Gwyther
- Alison Halford
- Edwina Hart
- Jane Hutt
- Ann Jones
- Peter Law
- Huw Lewis
- Val Lloyd
- Tom Middlehurst
- Rhodri Morgan
- Lynne Neagle
- Alun Pugh
- Jenny Randerson
- Karen Sinclair
- Gwenda Thomas
Cynnig wedi’i ddiwygio Edwina Hart t. 72
Amended motion Edwina Hart p. 72
DerbyniwydAdopted O blaidFor 47 YmatalAbstain 0 Yn erbynAgainst 0
Derbyniwyd y cynnig wedi’i ddiwygio.
Amended motion adopted.
Sut y pleidleisiodd yr AelodauHow Members voted
O blaidFor (47)
- Mick Bates
- Peter Black
- Nick Bourne
- Eleanor Burnham
- Rosemary Butler
- Alun Cairns
- Christine Chapman
- Andrew Davies
- David Davies
- Geraint Davies
- Glyn Davies
- Janet Davies
- Jocelyn Davies
- Ron Davies
- Sue Essex
- Delyth Evans
- Michael German
- Brian Gibbons
- William Graham
- John Griffiths
- Christine Gwyther
- Alison Halford
- Edwina Hart
- Jane Hutt
- Pauline Jarman
- Ann Jones
- Elin Jones
- Gareth Jones
- Ieuan Wyn Jones
- Peter Law
- Huw Lewis
- David Lloyd
- Val Lloyd
- David Melding
- Tom Middlehurst
- Jonathan Morgan
- Rhodri Morgan
- Lynne Neagle
- Alun Pugh
- Jenny Randerson
- Rod Richards
- Peter Rogers
- Janet Ryder
- Karen Sinclair
- Gwenda Thomas
- Rhodri Glyn Thomas
- Phil Williams
Dadl Fer
Short Debate
Tai Amlfeddiant
Houses in Multiple Occupation
Although this is deferred, I am glad to see the short debate scheduled for a Tuesday. William Graham, Alun Pugh and Elin Jones will make brief contributions.
Er bod hyn wedi ei ohirio, yr wyf yn falch o weld bod y ddadl fer wedi ei threfnu ar gyfer dydd Mawrth. Bydd William Graham, Alun Pugh ac Elin Jones yn gwneud cyfraniadau byr.
Houses of multiple occupation exist across Wales, and the fact that a growing part of our population needs short-term lets, found in such houses, is not disputed. Demand is especially high among young people as such housing suits their lifestyle and needs. As well as students and young people, tenants in houses of multiple occupation often tend to be those on low incomes or on benefits, and often with other social or personal problems—these are some of the most at-risk members of our society. These vulnerable people are not in the strongest position to insist on decent standards of accommodation, which is their right, in the same way as everyone else.
Mae tai amlfeddiant yn bodoli ledled Cymru, ac ni wadir y ffaith bod angen llety ar osod am gyfnod byr, sef y llety sydd ar gael mewn tai o’r fath, ar ran gynyddol o’n poblogaeth. Mae’r galw yn arbennig o uchel ymhlith pobl ifanc gan fod tai o’r fath yn gweddu i’w ffordd o fyw a’u hanghenion. Yn ogystal â myfyrwyr a phobl ifanc, tuedda tenantiaid mewn tai amlfeddiant i fod ar incwm isel neu ar fudd-daliadau, ac yn aml mae ganddynt broblemau cymdeithasol neu bersonol eraill—dyma rai o aelodau ein cymdeithas sydd fwyaf mewn perygl. Nid yw’r bobl ddiamddiffyn hyn yn y sefyllfa gryfaf i fynnu ar safonau byw safonol, y mae ganddynt hawl iddynt fel pob un arall.
Members will have witnessed the effects of poor-quality housing on our constituents’ everyday lives. Inadequate housing is not only a misery in itself but also has an impact on people’s physical and mental wellbeing, on children’s education and on the ability of all to participate and thrive in society.
Bydd yr Aelodau wedi tystio i effeithiau tai o ansawdd gwael ar fywydau bob dydd ein hetholwyr. Mae darparu tai annigonol nid yn unig yn ddiflas ynddo’i hun ond caiff effaith hefyd ar les corfforol a meddyliol pobl, ar addysg plant ac ar allu pawb i gyfranogi a ffynnu mewn cymdeithas.
Members of the Select Committee on Welsh Affairs, in their investigation into social exclusion stated:
Dywedodd Aelodau o’r Pwyllgor Dethol ar Faterion Cymreig, yn eu hymchwiliad i allgáu cymdeithasol:
‘We were simply appalled by the state of housing in multiple occupation that we saw in Rhyl. Clearly, Rachmanism is not, as we had hoped, a thing of the past.’
They went on to recommend that:
Aethant yn eu blaen i argymell:
‘the Assembly and the UK Government together…consider whether further legislation is required to control the activities of unscrupulous landlords and to ensure decent and affordable housing within the private rented sector.’
With the Select Committee on Welsh Affairs, I believe that we are pushing an open door. The Green Paper on Housing states my Government’s clear commitment to introducing a mandatory licensing scheme for houses in multiple occupation as soon as parliamentary time allows. The Assembly’s strategy ‘Better Homes for People in Wales’ notes that commitment. I hope that this debate will send a strong signal that the Assembly wants to see such legislation implemented as soon as possible.
Gyda’r Pwyllgor Dethol ar Faterion Cymreig, credaf ein bod yn gwthio drws agored ar agor. Noda’r Papur Gwyrdd ar Dai ymrwymiad clir fy Llywodraeth i gyflwyno cynllun trwyddedu gorfodol ar gyfer tai amlfeddiant cyn gynted ag y bydd amser seneddol yn ei ganiatáu. Noda strategaeth y Cynulliad ‘Cartrefi Gwell i Bobl Cymru’ yr ymrwymiad hwnnw. Gobeithiaf y bydd y ddadl hon yn anfon neges gref bod y Cynulliad am weld deddfwriaeth o’r fath yn cael ei gweithredu cyn gynted â phosibl.
The lack of better controls means that bad owners of homes are allowed to get away with bad practice, which does not support those good owners who provide decent accommodation. I stress that not all houses in multiple occupation are bad and neither are the people who become homeless. The HMO sector, even in deprived areas such as Rhyl, contains some good examples of well-designed, well-equipped and well-managed housing. There are some excellent owners and they are to be commended, but this debate must focus on problems such as overcrowding, inadequate fire precautions, inadequate shared facilities, poor maintenance, bad management and harassment.
Mae prinder rheolaethau gwell yn golygu y gall perchnogion cartrefi gwael arddel arfer gwael, nad yw’n cefnogi’r perchnogion da hynny sy’n darparu llety safonol. Pwysleisiaf nad yw pob tŷ amlfeddiant yn wael nac ychwaith y bobl sy’n mynd yn ddigartref. Ceir rhai enghreifftiau da o dai wedi’u cynllunio, eu dodrefnu a’u rheoli’n dda yn y sector tai amlfeddiant, hyd yn oed mewn ardaloedd difreintiedig fel y Rhyl. Mae rhai perchnogion rhagorol a rhaid eu canmol hwy, ond rhaid i’r ddadl hon ganolbwyntio ar broblemau fel gorlenwi, rhagofalon tân annigonol, cyfleusterau a rennir sy’n annigonol, gwaith cynnal a chadw gwael, rheoli gwael ac aflonyddu.
The decline of traditional seaside towns over the last 40 years or so has led to many of the former hotels and guesthouses being converted into bedsits and flatlets. That is the case in Rhyl where there are now nearly 1,000 HMOs—the vast majority concentrated in one area in the West End. Of these, many do not meet the basic minimum standards in terms of fire safety, overcrowding and provision of amenities.
Mae dirywiad trefi glan môr traddodiadol dros y 40 mlynedd diwethaf neu oddeutu hynny wedi arwain at droi llawer o’r gwestai mawr a bach yn fflatiau un ystafell a fflatiau bach. Mae hyn yn wir yn y Rhyl lle mae bron 1,000 o dai amlfeddiant bellach—y rhan fwyaf ohonynt mewn un ardal yng ngorllewin y dref. O’r rhain, nid yw llawer yn cyrraedd yr isafswm safonau sylfaenol o ran diogelwch tân, gorlenwi a darparu cyfleusterau.
Another problem in Rhyl and along the north Wales coast is absentee landlords. HMOs where an agent or an owner lives nearby and the tenants have a relationship with the landlords tend to produce better-maintained and acceptable accommodation. All accommodation that is let or available for letting should be free from unacceptable hazards, in a reasonable state of repair and in an overall condition that will not adversely affect the health and safety of its residents, its visitors, neighbours or passers-by.
Problem arall yn y Rhyl ac ar hyd arfordir y gogledd yw landlordiaid absennol. Mae tai amlfeddiant lle mae asiant neu berchennog yn byw gerllaw a lle mae’r tenantiaid yn adnabod eu landlordiaid yn dda yn tueddu i gynnig llety derbyniol a gynhelir yn well. Dylai pob llety ar osod neu lety sydd ar gael i’w roi ar osod fod yn rhydd o beryglon annerbyniol, dylai fod mewn cyflwr eithaf da ac mewn cyflwr cyffredinol na fydd yn cael effaith niweidiol ar iechyd a diogelwch ei drigolion, ei ymwelwyr, cymdogion neu bobl yn mynd heibio.
A poor HMO does not only affect its tenants. For example, many of the HMOs in Rhyl lack the basic function of proper facilities for storing rubbish. This inevitably leads residents to put their rubbish out in the streets well before refuse collection times. Not only does that become unsightly; it also attracts the attention of the many seagulls and other vermin in Rhyl, posing health risks to the whole street. Taking action to enforce decent standards in HMOs benefits the whole community. Some, all, or a combination of features such as threadbare carpeting, bare boards, peeling wallpaper, cracked or boarded-up windows, ceilings that are partially caved in, loose electrical wiring, waste pipes that protrude from buildings, ill-equipped kitchens that lack proper ventilation, blocked or otherwise inadequate fire escapes are to be found in certain HMOs. They combine to create an impression of squalor and suggest an attitude of not caring. Some tenants are partially responsible for damage, breakages, disconnection of smoke alarms and so on, but that is no excuse for the owner’s failure to take corrective action. If a tenant is making a property hazardous or dangerous, they must be evicted so that the lives and health of other tenants are not put at risk. Nobody suggests that anti-social, dangerous or criminal behaviour should be tolerated in HMOs or anywhere else—
Nid effeithio ar denantiaid yn unig a wna tai amlfeddiant gwael. Er enghraifft, nid oes gan lawer o’r tai amlfeddiant yn y Rhyl hyd yn oed gyfleusterau priodol sylfaenol ar gyfer storio sbwriel. Yn anochel mae hyn yn golygu bod y trigolion yn rhoi eu sbwriel ar y stryd ymhell cyn iddo gael ei gasglu. Mae hynny nid yn unig yn ddiolwg; mae hefyd yn denu llawer o’r gwylanod a’r fermin eraill yn y Rhyl, sy’n creu risgiau i iechyd y stryd gyfan. Mae cymryd camau i orfodi safonau gweddus mewn tai amlfeddiant yn fanteisiol i’r gymuned gyfan. Mewn rhai tai amlfeddiant ceir pob un o’r nodweddion canlynol neu gyfuniad ohonynt; carpedi wedi treulio, estyll diorchudd, papur wal yn pilio, ffenestri wedi torri neu â darnau o bren yn eu gorchuddio, nenfydau wedi cwympo yn rhannol, gwifrau trydanol rhydd, pibellau gwastraff sy’n ymwthio allan o adeiladau, ceginau â chyfarpar annigonol heb system awyru ddigonol, diangfeydd tân caeëdig neu fel arall rhai annigonol. Cyfunant i greu argraff o fryntni ac awgrymant nad yw pobl yn hidio. Mae rhai tenantiaid yn rhannol gyfrifol am ddifrod, pethau’n torri, datgysylltu larymau tân ac yn y blaen, ond nid yw hynny’n esgus ar ran y perchennog dros fethu â chymryd camau i unioni hyn. Os bydd tenantiaid yn gwneud eiddo yn beryglus, rhaid eu troi o’u cartrefi fel na roddir bywydau ac iechyd tenantiaid eraill mewn perygl. Nid yw unrhyw un yn awgrymu y dylid goddef ymddygiad gwrthgymdeithasol, peryglus neu droseddol mewn tai amlfeddiant nac yn unrhyw le arall—
Owen John Thomas a gododd—
Owen John Thomas rose—
John Marek The Deputy Presiding Officer spoken in English p. 76
John Marek Y Dirprwy Lywydd siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 76
Order. You may seek to intervene when the Minister replies.
Trefn. Gallwch geisio ymyrryd pan fydd y Gweinidog yn ateb.
Councils can use existing statutory powers to force bad owners to improve standards, but that only tends to happen as a last resort. Home improvement grants sometimes provide a response from owners—usually the most responsible landlords. Poor landlords do not usually approach the council for advice on standards. The most unscrupulous of owners prefer not to draw attention to the numbers of tenants they house for a fear of reduction in their financial return. Under current legislation, owners are free to make whatever alterations that they wish inside their properties. Sadly, many alterations made in HMOs are substandard and seem to have little regard for tenants’ comfort or safety. The interior of properties are often potentially hazardous. The worse that can happen to landlords if their sloppy building standards are discovered is that they can be asked to carry out improvements. The worse that can happen to a tenant could be loss of life.
Gall cynghorau ddefnyddio pwerau statudol presennol i orfodi perchnogion gwael i wella safonau, ond dim ond pan fydd popeth arall wedi methu y digwydd hyn fel arfer. Mae grantiau gwella tai yn ennyn ymateb gan berchnogion weithiau—fel arfer y landlordiaid mwyaf cyfrifol. Nid yw landlordiaid gwael fel arfer yn mynd at y cyngor am gyngor ar safonau. Mae’r perchnogion mwyaf diegwyddor yn tueddu i beidio â thynnu sylw at nifer y tenantiaid sydd ganddynt am eu bod yn ofni gostyngiad yn eu henillion. O dan ddeddfwriaeth gyfredol, mae rhyddid gan berchnogion i wneud y newidiadau y dymunant eu gwneud yn eu heiddo. Yn anffodus, mae llawer o’r newidiadau a wneir mewn tai amlfeddiant yn is na’r safon ac ni roddir llawer o ystyriaeth i gysur na diogelwch tenantiaid. Yn aml mae tu mewn yr adeiladau hyn yn gallu bod yn beryglus. Y gwaethaf a all ddigwydd i landlordiaid os canfyddir eu safonau adeiladu gwael yw y gofynnir iddynt wneud gwelliannau. Y gwaethaf a all ddigwydd i denant fyddai colli ei fywyd.
In 1998, Denbighshire County Council finally established a registration scheme for HMOs. Unfortunately, due to objections, mainly from landlords, the first application form was not sent out until the following year. To date, only 31 properties have been registered under the scheme and a further five are awaiting completion of remedial work before registration. At this rate, Denbighshire can expect to have a comprehensive register of HMOs somewhere in the middle of the next century. Given the current regulations, a local scheme is not as simple to operate as a streamline national scheme would be. Replacing the present cumbersome controls with a simpler, more effective framework for regulating HMOs will provide protection where it is most needed and benefit tenants and responsible landlords alike. Such a framework would modernise and rationalise the confusing matter of control and strip away the existing maze of red tape that plagues responsible landlords and local councils and provides a smoke screen to allow cowboy landlords to carry on unchecked. A national mandatory licensing system would allow a list to be drawn up of those people who were unfit to be landlords, and therefore unfit to own houses of multiple occupancy. The early introduction of a national scheme would impose an absolute and unambiguous duty on everybody who owned a HMO to declare it. The message would be clear: failure to do so leaves you liable to prosecution. Owners would be aware that HMOs would not be licensed until they met minimum standards based on clear Government guidelines and that licences would be withdrawn at any time if standards were not maintained. Perhaps, more importantly, tenants’ awareness of the standards that they should expect would be raised and they would have greater confidence to come forward and complain when standards were not acceptable. Safety is of paramount importance and owners must recognise their responsibility in this area.
Yn 1998, sefydlodd Cyngor Sir Ddinbych gynllun cofrestru o’r diwedd ar gyfer tai amlfeddiant. Yn anffodus, oherwydd gwrthwynebiadau, yn bennaf gan landlordiaid, nid anfonwyd y ffurflen gais gyntaf allan tan y flwyddyn ganlynol. Hyd yn hyn, dim ond 31 eiddo sydd wedi eu cofrestru o dan y cynllun ac mae pump arall yn aros i’r gwaith adferol gael ei gwblhau cyn cofrestru. Ar y gyfradd hon, gall Sir Ddinbych ddisgwyl cael cofrestr gynhwysfawr o dai amlfeddiant rywbryd ynghanol y ganrif nesaf. O gofio’r rheoliadau presennol, nid yw cynllun lleol mor syml i’w weithredu ag y byddai cynllun cenedlaethol symlach. Bydd creu fframwaith symlach, mwy effeithiol i reoleiddio tai amlfeddiant yn lle’r rheolaethau trafferthus presennol yn rhoi diogelwch lle mae ei angen mwyaf a bydd tenantiaid a landlordiaid cyfrifol yn elwa arno. Byddai fframwaith o’r fath yn moderneiddio ac yn ad-drefnu’r gwaith dryslyd o reoli a chael gwared ar yr holl fiwrocratiaeth bresennol sy’n bla ar landlordiaid cyfrifol a chynghorau lleol ac sy’n darparu llen fwg fel y gall landlordiaid diegwyddor guddio y tu ôl iddi. Yn sgîl system drwyddedu orfodol genedlaethol byddai rhestr yn cael ei llunio o’r bobl hynny nad oeddent yn bobl addas i fod yn landlordiaid, ac felly yn anaddas i fod yn berchen ar dai amlfeddiant. Byddai cyflwyno cynllun cenedlaethol yn gynnar yn gosod dyletswydd diamod a digamsyniol ar bawb a oedd yn berchen ar dŷ amlfeddiant i’w ddatgan. Byddai’r neges yn glir: gallech gael eich erlyn am fethu â gwneud hynny. Byddai perchnogion yn ymwybodol na fyddai tai amlfeddiant yn cael eu trwyddedu hyd nes eu bod yn cyrraedd yr isafswm safonau, wedi’u seilio ar ganllawiau clir y Llywodraeth, ac y byddai’r trwyddedau yn cael eu tynnu’n ôl ar unrhyw adeg pe na chyrhaeddid y safonau hynny. Efallai, yn bwysicach, byddai tenantiaid yn fwy ymwybodol o’r safonau y dylent eu disgwyl ac y byddai ganddynt fwy o hyder i ddod ymlaen a chwyno pe na bai’r safonau yn dderbyniol. Mae diogelwch yn holl bwysig a rhaid i berchnogion gydnabod eu cyfrifoldeb yn y maes hwn.
Fire safety is crucial, and Members are aware that it is a passion of mine given my 29 years’ experience in the fire service. Over a fifth of fatalities from domestic fires occur in the HMO sector. Occupants of houses comprising of bedsits are six times more likely to die as a result of fire than are adults in an ordinary house. Sprinklers in HMOs would have a great impact on fire safety and the fire brigade union has long called for sprinkler systems to be included in guidelines for future legislation. In new build homes, the cost of installing sprinklers is minimal. It is even becoming more economical to install sprinklers in existing properties. Immediate installation of sprinklers in all HMOs will not happen overnight, but I hope that owners will be encouraged to install them given the compelling evidence of fire risk in HMOs.
Mae diogelwch tân yn holl bwysig, ac mae’r Aelodau yn ymwybodol bod hwn yn rhywbeth y teimlaf yn angerddol iawn yn ei gylch o gofio fy 29 mlynedd o brofiad yn y gwasanaeth tân. Mae mwy nag un mewn pump o farwolaethau o ganlyniad i danau yn y cartref yn digwydd yn y sector tai amlfeddiant. Mae trigolion tai sy’n cynnwys fflatiau un ystafell chwe gwaith yn fwy tebygol o farw o ganlyniad i dân nag oedolion mewn tŷ cyffredin. Byddai taenellwyr dŵr mewn tai amlfeddiant yn cael effaith fawr ar ddiogelwch tân ac mae undeb y frigâd dân wedi bod yn galw ers amser ar i systemau taenellu gael eu cynnwys mewn canllawiau ar gyfer deddfwriaeth yn y dyfodol. Wrth adeiladu tai newydd, bach iawn fyddai’r gost o osod taenellwyr. Mae’n mynd yn rhatach i osod taenellwyr mewn cartrefi presennol hyd yn oed. Ni ellir gosod taenellwyr ymhob tŷ amlfeddiant dros nos, ond gobeithiaf yr anogir perchnogion i’w gosod o gofio’r dystiolaeth gref o risgiau tân mewn tai amlfeddiant.
The other safety issue is related to gas supplies. Many people still think that gas safety involves leaking gas. The majority of accidents and fatalities in homes, predominantly those in the private rented sector, involve carbon monoxide poisoning. Around 30 people a year die from carbon monoxide poisoning and more than 400 end up in hospital casualty departments. We must take three basic steps to tackle this problem. First, we must require the installation of carbon monoxide detectors in houses of multiple occupancy. Secondly, the Assembly and our partners must raise public and professional awareness of the dangers, and thirdly, new provision for the maintenance of heating equipment must be introduced along with tougher penalties for those who abuse it. I would like the same culture for carbon monoxide detectors as we now have for smoke alarms.
Mae’r mater arall o ran diogelwch yn gysylltiedig â chyflenwadau nwy. Cred llawer o bobl o hyd bod diogelwch nwy yn ymwneud â nwy yn gollwng. Mae’r mwyafrif o ddamweiniau a marwolaethau mewn cartrefi, yn bennaf y rheini yn y sector tai preifat ar osod, yn ymwneud â gwenwyn carbon monocsid. Mae tua 30 o bobl yn marw bob blwyddyn o wenwyn carbon monocsid a mwy na 400 yn gorfod mynd i adrannau damweiniau ac achosion brys mewn ysbytai. Rhaid inni gymryd tri cham sylfaenol i fynd i’r afael â’r broblem hon. Yn gyntaf, rhaid inni fynnu bod synwyryddion carbon monocsid yn cael eu gosod mewn tai amlfeddiant. Yn ail, rhaid i’r Cynulliad a’n partneriaid godi ymwybyddiaeth y cyhoedd a gweithwyr proffesiynol o’r peryglon, ac yn drydydd, rhaid cyflwyno darpariaeth newydd ar gyfer cynnal a chadw cyfarpar gwresogi ynghyd â chosbau llymach i’r rheini sy’n ei chamddefnyddio. Hoffwn feithrin yr un diwylliant sydd gennym ar gyfer synwyryddion carbon monocsid ag sydd gennym yn awr ar gyfer larymau tân.
Many of the measures that we need to tackle the problems associated with our HMOs will require primary legislation. However, the necessary legislation is only the beginning. Our ‘Better Homes for People in Wales’ document makes clear that:
Bydd llawer o’r mesurau sydd eu hangen arnom i fynd i’r afael â’r problemau sy’n gysylltiedig â’n tai amlfeddiant yn galw am ddeddfwriaeth sylfaenol. Fodd bynnag, megis dechrau yn unig yw’r ddeddfwriaeth angenrheidiol. Noda ein dogfen ‘Cartrefi Gwell i Bobl Cymru’ yn glir:
‘The detailed implementation of the new arrangements will be through secondary legislation’.
‘Rhoddir y trefniadau newydd ar waith yn fanwl drwy ddeddfwriaeth eilaidd’.
We need to start thinking now about the details that we would like to see, so that we can influence the legislation and be ready to implement it to protect the thousands of people who currently live in squalid and dangerous conditions in HMOs in Wales. I never want to hear again from a former fire service colleague or the local police of another unnecessary death—another wasted life in a HMO that could have been avoided by the enforcement of regulations ensuring decent standards.
Mae angen inni ddechrau meddwl yn awr am fanylion yr hyn yr hoffem ei weld, fel y gallwn ddylanwadu ar y ddeddfwriaeth a bod yn barod i’w gweithredu er mwyn diogelu’r miloedd o bobl sy’n byw mewn tai amlfeddiant aflan a pheryglus yng Nghymru ar hyn o bryd. Nid wyf am glywed eto oddi wrth gyn gyfaill yn y gwasanaeth tân na’r heddlu lleol am farwolaeth ddiangen arall—bywyd arall wedi’i wastraffu mewn tŷ amlfeddiant y gellid bod wedi ei osgoi drwy orfodi rheoliadau sy’n sicrhau safonau gweddus.
‘Better Homes for People in Wales’ sets out the Assembly’s vision for housing in Wales in these words:
Mae ‘Cartrefi Gwell i Bobl Cymru’ yn nodi gweledigaeth y Cynulliad ar gyfer tai yng Nghymru yn y geiriau hyn:
‘We want everyone in Wales to have the opportunity to live in good quality, affordable housing and choose where they live and whether buying or renting is best for them and their families.’
‘Yr ydym am i bawb yng Nghymru gael y cyfle i fyw mewn tai fforddiadwy ac o ansawdd da a dewis lle y maent yn byw ac ai prynu ynteu rentu sydd orau ar eu cyfer hwy a’u teuluoedd.’
We need a national registration and inspection scheme for HMOs in Wales and we need it soon.
Mae angen cynllun cofrestru ac archwilio cenedlaethol arnom ar gyfer tai amlfeddiant yng Nghymru ac mae ei angen arnom yn fuan.
I commend Ann Jones for bringing this to the Assembly’s attention. I am sure that every Member has received a complaint about bad landlords. They are to be discouraged. Bad tenants were also mentioned this afternoon, and they are a problem for landlords. I preface my remarks by declaring my usual interest—
Cymeradwyaf Ann Jones am ddod â hyn i sylw’r Cynulliad. Yr wyf yn siŵr bod pob Aelod wedi cael cwyn ynglŷn â landlordiaid gwael. Dylid cael gwared arnynt. Soniwyd am denantiaid gwael y prynhawn yma hefyd ac maent yn broblem i landlordiaid. Rhagflaenaf fy sylwadau drwy ddatgan fy muddiant arferol—
As a tenant or a landlord?
Fel tenant neu fel landlord?
Neither I hope. I also remind Members that the Conservative Government introduced registration of houses of multiple occupation in the Housing Act 1996. Local authorities already had much legislation available to them that could enhance such houses. How much time do I have left to speak, Deputy Presiding Officer?
Nid fel un ohonynt gobeithio. Hoffwn atgoffa’r Aelodau hefyd bod y Llywodraeth Geidwadol wedi cyflwyno cofrestru tai amlfeddiant yn Neddf Tai 1996. Yr oedd gan awdurdodau lleol lawer o ddeddfwriaeth eisoes a allai wella tai o’r fath. Faint o amser sydd gennyf yn weddill, Ddirprwy Lywydd?
John Marek The Deputy Presiding Officer spoken in English p. 80
John Marek Y Dirprwy Lywydd siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 80
You are about to finish.
Yr ydych ar fin dod i ben.
Many grants are available to landlords and that scheme is beginning to take effect, but not as quickly as we would like.
Mae llawer o grantiau ar gael i landlordiaid ac mae’r cynllun hwnnw yn dechrau gweithredu, ond nid mor gyflym ag y byddem yn ei hoffi.
I am grateful to Ann for allowing me to contribute. She is an expert in HMOs in Rhyl, but further along the coast, communities such as Colwyn Bay and Pensarn have been the victims of unscrupulous property developers who treat tenants and communities with contempt. As the local Member, I welcome the Assembly’s decision to grant special control priorities to Conwy County Borough Council to get tough with slum landlords, who ignore their obligation to maintain and manage properties. It is right to say that there is a world of difference between having the powers and using them. I take this opportunity to call on all local authorities in Wales to use their powers to ensure that sub-standard HMOs are closed down, because no-one should have to live in danger, squalor or fear.
Yr wyf yn ddiolchgar i Ann am ganiatáu imi gyfrannu. Mae’n arbenigwraig ym maes tai amlfeddiant yn y Rhyl, ond ymhellach ar hyd yr arfordir, mae cymunedau fel Bae Colwyn a Phensarn wedi dioddef wrth law datblygwyr eiddo diegwyddor sy’n trin tenantiaid a chymunedau â dirmyg. Fel yr Aelod lleol, croesawaf benderfyniad y Cynulliad i ganiatáu blaenoriaethau rheoli arbennig i Gyngor Bwrdeistref Sirol Conwy i fod yn llym gyda landlordiaid slymiau, sy’n anwybyddu eu rhwymedigaeth i gynnal a chadw a rheoli eiddo. Mae’n iawn dweud bod byd o wahaniaeth rhwng meddu ar y pwerau a’u defnyddio. Manteisiaf ar y cyfle hwn i alw ar bob awdurdod lleol yng Nghymru i ddefnyddio eu pwerau i sicrhau bod tai amlfeddiant sy’n is na’r safon yn cael eu cau, oherwydd ni ddylai neb orfod byw mewn perygl, budreddi nac ofn.
Mae nifer o dai amlfeddiant yn fy etholaeth i, yn Aberystwyth a Llanbedr Pont Steffan yn benodol. Am resymau a amlinellwyd gan Ann Jones eisoes, mae angen diffiniad cliriach o dai amlfeddiant i ganiatáu cofrestru a thrwyddedu mwy effeithiol.
There are many HMOs in my constituency, particularly in Aberstwyth and Lampeter. For reasons already outlined by Ann Jones, we need a clearer definition of HMOs to allow more effective registration and licensing.
Tynnaf sylw Aelodau at fesur preifat, Mesur Tai (Cymru) 2001, a gyflwynir gan yr Aelod Seneddol Simon Thomas. Mae ymgynghoriad ar y drafft cyntaf yn digwydd ar hyn o bryd. Byddai’r Mesur hwn yn galluogi’r Cynulliad i osod dyletswydd statudol ar awdurdodau lleol Cymru i gyflwyno cynllun trwyddedig gorfodol ar gyfer tai amlfeddiant yn eu hardaloedd. Awgrymaf fod pawb sydd yn chwilio am drwyddedu mwy effeithiol yn y maes hwn yn cymryd y cyfle i ymateb i’r Mesur drafft sydd newydd ei gyhoeddi, a’i gefnogi maes o law.
I draw Members’ attention to a Private Members’ Bill, Housing (Wales) Bill 2001, which is being put forward by Simon Thomas MP. The first draft is currently out for consultation. This Bill would allow the Assembly to make it a statutory responsibility on local authorities in Wales to introduce a mandatory licensing scheme for HMOs in their areas. I suggest that everyone looking for more effective licensing in this area should take the opportunity to respond to the draft Bill, which has just been published, and should support it in due course.
Peter Black The Deputy Minister for Local Government spoken in English p. 81
Peter Black Y Dirprwy Weinidog dros Lywodraeth Leol siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 81
I am pleased to reply to this debate on a particularly important housing issue that affects the most vulnerable tenants. I thank Ann for bringing it to our attention and for graphically highlighting the dangers and risks posed by this form of accommodation when landlords do not do their jobs properly. There was a thorough and useful debate on housing issues, and the private rented sector in particular, during the North Wales Regional Committee meeting in Rhyl on 6 July. It was particularly significant that the Committee chose to discuss this issue in Rhyl. It is an area that manifests some of the worst problems with HMOs and yet has excellent examples that demonstrate the positive and innovative approaches that local authorities can adopt to tackle those problems effectively using their exisiting powers.
Mae’n bleser gennyf ymateb i’r ddadl hon ar fater arbennig o bwysig yn ymwneud â thai sy’n effeithio ar y tenantiaid mwyaf diamddiffyn. Diolchaf i Ann am ddod ag ef i’n sylw ac am bwysleisio mor eglur y peryglon a’r risgiau y mae’r math hwn o lety yn eu creu pan na fydd landlordiaid yn cyflawni eu gwaith yn gywir. Bu dadl drylwyr a defnyddiol ar faterion tai, a’r sector tai preifat ar osod yn arbennig, yn ystod cyfarfod Pwyllgor Rhanbarth y Gogledd yn y Rhyl ar 6 Gorffennaf. Yr oedd yn arwyddocaol iawn bod y Pwyllgor wedi dewis trafod y mater hwn yn y Rhyl. Mae’n ardal sy’n amlygu rhai o’r problemau gwaethaf ym maes tai amlfeddiant ac eto mae yno enghreifftiau rhagorol sy’n dangos y dulliau cadarnhaol ac arloesol y gall awdurdodau lleol eu mabwysiadu i fynd i’r afael â’r problemau hynny yn effeithiol drwy ddefnyddio eu pwerau presennol.
In July, Members endorsed our national housing strategy—‘Better Homes for People in Wales’, which set out the Assembly’s vision for the future of housing and will contribute to improving the lives of people living in Wales. The strategy recognises the important role that the private rented sector can play in meeting the housing requirements of those who are unable, or choose not to, purchase their own homes and sets out the Assembly’s proposals to improve the condition and management of those homes.
Ym mis Gorffennaf, cymeradwyodd yr Aelodau ein strategaeth tai genedlaethol—‘Cartrefi Gwell i Bobl Cymru’, sy’n nodi gweledigaeth y Cynulliad ar gyfer dyfodol tai a bydd yn cyfrannu at wella bywydau pobl sy’n byw yng Nghymru. Cydnabu’r strategaeth y rôl bwysig y gall y sector tai preifat ar osod ei chwarae wrth ddiwallu gofynion tai y rheini na allant, neu sy’n dewis peidio, â phrynu eu cartrefi eu hunain a noda gynigion y Cynulliad ar sut i wella cyflwr y cartrefi hynny a’r modd y cânt eu rheoli.
We have made it clear that we want to see the development of a healthy, vibrant private rented sector, but we agree with the comments that were made today about the importance of those homes being well-managed and in good condition. We recognise that a modern private rented sector, providing a quality service, would be better placed to make an enhanced contribution to addressing housing needs. We also acknowledge that some of the worst problems in the private rented sector are with HMOs, of which there are around 20,000 in Wales. The problems in the private rented sector that we heard about this afternoon are complex and varied. They include inadequate fire and other health and safety standards along with overcrowding and sub-standard facilities.
Yr ydym wedi egluro ein bod am weld sector tai preifat ar osod iach a bywiog yn datblygu, ond cytunwn â’r sylwadau a wnaed heddiw ynglŷn â phwysigrwydd sicrhau y rheolir y cartrefi hynny yn dda a’u bod mewn cyflwr da. Cydnabyddwn y byddai sector tai preifat modern ar osod, sy’n darparu gwasanaeth o ansawdd, mewn sefyllfa well i wneud cyfraniad gwell i fynd i’r afael ag anghenion tai. Cydnabyddwn hefyd fod rhai o’r problemau gwaethaf yn y sector tai preifat ar osod i’w gweld yn y tai amlfeddiant, ac mae tua 20,000 ohonynt yng Nghymru. Mae’r problemau y clywsom amdanynt y prynhawn yma yn y sector tai preifat ar osod yn gymhleth ac yn amrywiol. Maent yn cynnwys safonau tân a safonau iechyd a diogelwch eraill annigonol ynghyd â gorlenwi a chyfleusterau is na’r safon.
Most of the discussion today has rightly concentrated on what the UK Government and Assembly can do to tackle these problems. It is also important to bear in mind the significant powers that local authorities already possess. Enforcement powers, along with grants, can help authorities to strike a balance, with incentives for landlords to improve the condition of HMOs. The proposed reforms to private sector renewal policies, which were outlined in ‘Better Homes for People in Wales’, will give local authorities more flexibility in the range and nature of assistance that they can offer landlords. The changes will provide local authorities with the tools to develop strategies that are sensitive to the dynamics of the local market for privately rented accommodation and will help them address those local priorities.
Mae’r rhan fwyaf o’r drafodaeth heddiw wedi canolbwyntio’n briodol ar yr hyn y gall Llywodraeth y DU a’r Cynulliad ei wneud i fynd i’r afael â’r problemau hyn. Mae’n bwysig cofio hefyd y pwerau sylweddol a feddir eisoes gan awdurdodau lleol. Gall pwerau gorfodi, ynghyd â grantiau, helpu awdurdodau i daro cydbwysedd, gyda chymhellion i landlordiaid wella cyflwr tai amlfeddiant. Bydd y diwygiadau arfaethedig i bolisïau adnewyddu y sector preifat, a amlinellwyd yn ‘Cartrefi Gwell i Bobl Cymru’ yn rhoi mwy o hyblygrwydd i awdurdodau lleol yn yr amrywiaeth o gymorth a natur y cymorth y gallant eu cynnig i landlordiaid. Bydd y newidiadau yn rhoi’r hyn sydd ei angen ar awdurdodau lleol i ddatblygu strategaethau sy’n sensitif i ddeinameg y farchnad leol ar gyfer llety preifat ar osod ac yn eu helpu i ymdrin â’r blaenoriaethau lleol hynny.
There has been a great increase in private accommodation for students over the past few years, that has been exploited to the detriment of the communities of long-term residents and students alike. Do you agree that it is ironic that the landlords who cause the decline of communities in university towns are not called upon to pay council tax? Although student households are not deemed to be houses in multiple occupation, will you join me in urging the UK Government to amend the Houses in Multiple Occupation (Registration Scheme) Bill to compel landlords of student accommodation to be more accountable in keeping their properties in a state of good repair, so as not to detract from the general standard of dwellings within a given community?
Bu cynnydd aruthrol mewn llety preifat i fyfyrwyr yn ystod y blynyddoedd diwethaf, a gamddefnyddiwyd er anfantais i gymunedau o drigolion hirdymor a myfyrwyr fel ei gilydd. A gytunwch ei bod yn eironig na orfodir y landlordiaid sy’n achosi i gymunedau ddirywio mewn trefi prifysgol i dalu’r dreth gyngor? Er na thybir bod cartrefi myfyrwyr yn dai amlfeddiant, a ymunwch â mi i annog Llywodraeth y DU i ddiwygio’r Mesur Tai Amlfeddiant (Cynllun Cofrestru) i orfodi landlordiaid llety myfyrwyr i fod yn fwy atebol drwy gadw eu heiddo mewn cyflwr da fel nad ydynt yn tynnu oddi ar safon gyffredinol yr anheddau o fewn cymuned benodol?
It is important that landlords are accountable for the condition of the homes that they own, which is the nub of the licensing Bill that we would like to see introduced in the House of Commons. Council tax and financial accountability are not matters for this debate but for another debate at another time perhaps.
Mae’n bwysig bod landlordiaid yn atebol am gyflwr y cartrefi y maent yn berchen arnynt, sef hanfod y Mesur trwyddedu yr hoffem ei weld yn cael ei gyflwyno yn Nhŷ’r Cyffredin. Nid yw’r dreth gyngor ac atebolrwydd ariannol yn faterion ar gyfer y ddadl hon ond yn hytrach ar gyfer dadl arall ar adeg arall efallai.
The proposed reforms to private sector renewal policies, outlined in ‘Better Homes for People in Wales’, will give local authorities much more flexibility in the range and nature of the assistance that they can give to landlords. The changes will provide local authorities with the tools to develop strategies that are sensitive to the dynamics of the local market for privately rented accommodation and that help them to address their local priorities.
Bydd y diwygiadau arfaethedig i bolisïau adnewyddu’r sector preifat, a amlinellir yn ‘Cartrefi Gwell i Bobl Cymru’ yn rhoi llawer mwy o hyblygrwydd i awdurdodau lleol o ran amrywiaeth y cymorth a natur y cymorth y gallant eu cynnig i landlordiaid. Bydd y newidiadau yn rhoi’r hyn sydd ei angen ar awdurdodau lleol i ddatblygu strategaethau sy’n sensitif i ddeinameg y farchnad leol ar gyfer llety preifat ar osod ac yn eu helpu i ymdrin â’u blaenoriaethau lleol.
Many local authorities have already developed close and effective working relationships with reputable landlords and are developing landlord accreditation schemes. Swansea City and County Council, in particular, already has a scheme that has been welcomed by reputable landlords in the area who see their participation, and providing good quality, well-managed accommodation, as a distinct advantage. Cardiff is also close to finalising a scheme. That recognises the point raised by William; there are good as well as bad landlords. Reputable landlords should welcome discouraging the worst landlords.
Mae llawer o awdurdodau lleol eisoes wedi datblygu perthynas waith agos ac effeithiol â landlordiaid da ac yn datblygu cynlluniau achredu landlordiaid. Eisoes, mae gan Gyngor Dinas a Sir Abertawe, yn arbennig, gynllun a groesawyd gan landlordiaid da yn yr ardal sy’n ystyried eu cyfranogiad, ynghyd â darparu llety o ansawdd da ac a reolir yn dda, yn fantais bendant. Mae Caerdydd hefyd ar fin cwblhau cynllun. Cydnabu hynny y pwynt a godwyd gan William: mae landlordiaid da yn ogystal â landlordiaid gwael ar gael. Dylai landlordiaid da groesawu’r ymdrech i gael gwared ar y landlordiaid gwaethaf.
We encourage all local authorities in Wales that have significant problems with HMOs to consider adopting accreditation schemes. Local authorities can also work in partnership with registered social landlords. That can involve the conversion of HMOs into self-contained accommodation and we have excellent examples of that approach in several parts of Wales.
Anogwn bob awdurdod lleol yng Nghymru sy’n wynebu problemau mawr gyda thai amlfeddiant i ystyried mabwysiadu cynlluniau achredu. Gall awdurdodau lleol weithio mewn partneriaeth â landlordiaid cymdeithasol cofrestredig hefyd. Gall hynny olygu troi tai amlfeddiant yn llety hunan-gynhwysol ac mae gennym enghreifftiau rhagorol o’r dull hwnnw ar waith mewn sawl rhan o Gymru.
We accept and agree with the comments made today about the importance of mandatory licensing for HMOs. I will come to that, and the timing of its introduction, in a moment. As Ann said, local authorities can introduce HMO registration schemes, which extend their powers to insist on better condition and management standards for HMOs. However, I accept that a mandatory scheme can offer significant benefits that local schemes cannot.
Derbyniwn a chytunwn â’r sylwadau a wnaed heddiw ynglŷn â phwysigrwydd trwyddedu gorfodol ar gyfer tai amlfeddiant. Deuaf at hynny, ac at amseriad ei gyflwyno, mewn munud. Fel y dywedodd Ann, gall awdurdodau lleol gyflwyno cynlluniau cofrestru tai amlfeddiant, sy’n ymestyn eu pwerau i fynnu ar safonau cyflwr a rheoli gwell ar gyfer tai amlfeddiant. Fodd bynnag, derbyniaf y gall cynllun gorfodol gynnig manteision sylweddol na all cynlluniau lleol eu cynnig.
A number of local authorities in Wales already have registration schemes and others are in the pipeline. However, it is disappointing that more authorities have not taken the opportunity to introduce these schemes, which would help to prepare them for licensing. We urge all local authorities with problems with HMOs to develop such schemes.
Mae gan nifer o awdurdodau lleol yng Nghymru gynlluniau cofrestru eisoes ac mae eraill ar y gweill. Fodd bynnag, mae’n siomedig nad oes mwy o awdurdodau wedi manteisio ar y cyfle i gyflwyno’r cynlluniau hyn, a fyddai’n helpu i’w paratoi ar gyfer trwyddedu. Anogwn bob awdurdod lleol sy’n wynebu problemau gyda thai amlfeddiant i ddatblygu cynlluniau o’r fath.
We recognise that there can be particular pressures in areas where there are significant problems with HMOs. We have, therefore, provided additional resources from the £50 million available for strategic housing schemes this year, specifically to support strategies to tackle problems in the private rented sector. That is in addition to the significant resources that local authorities can use to tackle these problems.
Cydnabyddwn fod pwysau mawr yn gallu bod ar ardaloedd lle mae problemau mawr gyda thai amlfeddiant. Felly, yr ydym wedi darparu adnoddau ychwanegol o’r £50 miliwn sydd ar gael ar gyfer cynlluniau tai strategol eleni, yn benodol i gefnogi strategaethau i fynd i’r afael â phroblemau yn y sector tai preifat ar osod. Mae hynny yn ychwanegol at yr adnoddau sylweddol y gall awdurdodau lleol eu defnyddio i fynd i’r afael â’r problemau hyn.
The increase of £40 million in the Assembly’s housing budget over the next three years further underlines our firm commitment to housing and will give local authorities even more scope to tackle problems with HMOs, where they regard those as a priority.
Mae’r cynnydd o £40 miliwn yng nghyllideb tai y Cynulliad dros y tair blynedd nesaf yn pwysleisio ymhellach ein hymrwymiad cadarn i’r sector tai a bydd yn rhoi hyd yn oed mwy o gyfle i awdurdodau lleol fynd i’r afael â phroblemau gyda thai amlfeddiant, lle y’u hystyrir yn flaenoriaeth ganddynt.
I know that Ann has a professional interest in fire safety and we have set up a community fire safety working group. Its task is to investigate the installation of hardwired smoke alarms in social housing and sprinkler system in HMOs. A total of £3million has been allocated for 2002-03 for this purpose.
Gwn fod gan Ann ddiddordeb proffesiynol mewn diogelwch tân a sefydlwyd gweithgor diogelwch tân yn y gymuned gennym. Ei dasg yw ymchwilio i’r gwaith o osod larymau tân gwifredig mewn tai cymdeithasol a system taenellu mewn tai amlfeddiant. Neilltuwyd cyfanswm o £3 miliwn ar gyfer 2002-03 at y diben hwn.
Ann referred to carbon monoxide detectors, which are also important. The Health and Safety Executive has an ongoing campaign to draw public attention to, and to build public awareness of, the dangers of carbon monoxide. Current policy remains that while carbon monoxide detectors could give early warning of problems with fuel appliances, they are no substitute for properly maintained appliances and flues. The Assembly is considering the merits of making them mandatory in all newly provided social housing. HMO grants for landlords in private rented properties could also include that item.
Cyfeiriodd Ann at synwyryddion carbon monocsid, sydd yn bwysig hefyd. Mae gan yr Awdurdod Gweithredol Iechyd a Diogelwch ymgyrch barhaus i dynnu sylw’r cyhoedd at beryglon carbon monocsid ac i gynyddu eu hymwybyddiaeth o hyn. Yn ôl y polisi presennol, gall larymau carbon monocsid roi rhybudd cynnar am broblemau gyda dyfeisiau tanwydd, ond yr ateb yw sicrhau bod yr offer a’r ffliwiau wedi eu cynnal a’u cadw’n briodol. Mae’r Cynulliad yn ystyried y manteision o’u gwneud yn orfodol ym mhob tŷ cymdeithasol newydd a ddarperir. Gallai grantiau tai amlfeddiant i landlordiaid mewn eiddo preifat ar osod gynnwys yr eitem honno hefyd.
We recognise that local authorities have extensive powers to tackle problems in the private rented sector and, of course, mandatory licensing is a key issue.
Cydnabyddwn fod gan awdurdodau lleol bwerau helaeth i fynd i’r afael â phroblemau yn y sector tai preifat ar osod ac, wrth gwrs, mae trwyddedu gorfodol yn fater allweddol.
‘Better Homes for People in Wales’ makes clear the Assembly’s commitment to introduce a national licensing scheme for houses in multiple occupation. This will provide further scope for local authorities to ensure that houses in multiple occupation provide safe, acceptable living conditions, yet without reducing the supply of privately rented accommodation.
Mae ‘Cartrefi Gwell i Bobl Cymru’ yn pwysleisio ymrwymiad y Cynulliad i gyflwyno cynllun trwyddedu cenedlaethol ar gyfer tai amlfeddiant. Bydd hyn yn rhoi cyfle ymhellach i awdurdodau lleol sicrhau bod tai amlfeddiant yn darparu amodau byw diogel, derbyniol, ond heb leihau cyflenwad y llety preifat ar osod.
Authorities would be obliged to license all houses in multiple occupation, which are deemed as high risk. They would also have discretionary power to license other houses in multiple occupation, where they felt that it was appropriate for an area. This will again address the concerns expressed today about many privately rented properties, which currently fall outside the current definition of houses in multiple occupation, in particular, those which comprise student accommodation. These arrangements will greatly improve and enhance local authorities’ powers and enable them to build on their current arrangements. Those who have developed effective strategies for the private rented sector, including houses in multiple occupation registration schemes, will be best placed to take advantage of the new arrangements quickly.
Byddai’n rhaid i awdurdodau drwyddedu pob tŷ amlfeddiant y tybir ei fod yn peri risg sylweddol. Byddai ganddynt y pŵer dewisol hefyd i drwyddedu tai amlfeddiant eraill, lle yr oeddent o’r farn eu bod yn briodol ar gyfer ardal. Unwaith eto bydd hyn yn ymdrin â’r pryderon a fynegwyd heddiw ynglŷn â’r holl eiddo preifat ar osod, sydd ar hyn o bryd y tu hwnt i ddiffiniad cyfredol tai amlfeddiant, yn arbennig y rheini sy’n cynnwys llety myfyrwyr. Bydd y trefniadau hyn yn gwella a chryfhau pwerau awdurdodau lleol yn fawr ac yn eu galluogi i ychwanegu at eu trefniadau presennol. Y rheini sydd wedi datblygu strategaethau effeithiol ar gyfer y sector tai preifat ar osod, gan gynnwys tai mewn cynlluniau cofrestru tai amlfeddiant, fydd yn y sefyllfa orau i fanteisio ar y trefniadau newydd hyn yn gyflym.
I understand the disappointment about delays in introducing licensing. I have expressed similar sentiments myself. However, this is a matter for primary legislation and I cannot anticipate yet when this will be introduced. However, I assure you that we will continue to press colleagues in Whitehall on this issue.
Deallaf y siomedigaeth ynglŷn â’r oedi wrth gyflwyno system drwyddedu. Mynegais innau deimladau tebyg. Fodd bynnag, mater ar gyfer deddfwriaeth sylfaenol yw hyn ac ni allaf ragweld eto pryd y caiff hyn ei gyflwyno. Fodd bynnag, rhoddaf sicrwydd ichi y byddwn yn parhau i bwyso ar swyddogion yn Whitehall ar y mater hwn.
Although licensing legislation will be on a UK basis, the Assembly will use its powers through subordinate legislation to implement the new arrangements. That will ensure that they are sensitive to the needs of Wales and tackle the particular issues which concern local authorities, tenants, reputable landlords and, of course, Members.
Er y bydd deddfwriaeth drwyddedu ar sail y DU, bydd y Cynulliad yn defnyddio ei bwerau drwy is-ddeddfwriaeth i weithredu’r trefniadau newydd. Bydd hynny’n sicrhau eu bod yn sensitif i anghenion Cymru ac yn mynd i’r afael â’r materion penodol sy’n ymwneud ag awdurdodau lleol, tenantiaid, landlordiaid da ac, wrth gwrs, yr Aelodau.
There have been suggestions that the entire private rented sector should also be subject to licensing. However, the major problems concern houses in multiple occupation. The remainder of the private rented sector does not present widespread difficulties. Nevertheless, we recognise that there may be problems in some areas, but it is clear that tackling these issues requires a more selective approach.
Bu awgrymiadau y dylai’r sector tai preifat ar osod yn ei gyfanrwydd fod yn agored i drwyddedu hefyd. Fodd bynnag, mae’r prif broblemau yn ymwneud â thai amlfeddiant. Nid yw gweddill y sector tai preifat ar osod yn creu anawsterau eang. Serch hynny, cydnabyddwn fod problemau efallai mewn rhai ardaloedd, ond mae’n glir bod angen mabwysiadu dull mwy dewisol er mwyn mynd i’r afael â’r materion hyn.
We recently issued a consultation paper on selective licensing of houses in the private rented sector, which are not in multiple occupation. The paper recognises the need for an approach that is sensitive to the needs and dynamics of the private rented sector in Wales and suggests arrangements that are different from those proposed for England.
Yn ddiweddar, cyhoeddwyd papur ymgynghorol gennym ar drwyddedu tai dewisol yn y sector tai preifat ar osod, nad ydynt yn dai amlfeddiant. Cydnabu’r papur yr angen am fabwysiadu dull sy’n sensitif i anghenion a deinameg y sector tai preifat ar osod yng Nghymru ac awgryma drefniadau gwahanol i’r rhai a gynigiwyd ar gyfer Lloegr.
We want to take account of people’s views, especially those likely to be affected by the scope and operation of such selective licensing. We look forward to receiving a positive and constructive response from local authorities and the wide range of housing interests that we have consulted.
Yr ydym am ystyried barn pobl, yn enwedig y rheini y mae’n debygol y bydd cwmpas a gweithrediad cynllun trwyddedu dewisol o’r fath yn effeithio arnynt. Edrychwn ymlaen at gael ymateb cadarnhaol ac adeiladol gan awdurdodau lleol a’r ystod eang o bobl â diddordeb yn y sector tai yr ymgynghorwyd â hwy.
Our vision for a healthy, vibrant, well managed private rented sector with homes in good condition is set out in ‘Better Homes for People in Wales’. The strategy shows that we are committed to introducing licensing for houses in multiple occupation as soon as there is a suitable opportunity and we are consulting on selective licensing. We have provided significant resources to support local authorities with strategies to tackle problems in the private rented sector and to help them develop houses in multiple occupation registration schemes.
Nodir ein gweledigaeth ar gyfer sector tai preifat ar osod sy’n iach, bywiog ac yn un a reolir yn dda gyda thai mewn cyflwr da yn ‘Cartrefi Gwell i Bobl Cymru’. Dengys y strategaeth ein bod yn ymrwymedig i gyflwyno trwyddedu ar gyfer tai amlfeddiant cyn gynted ag y daw cyfle addas ac ymgynghorwn ar drwyddedu dewisol. Bu inni ddarparu adnoddau sylweddol i gefnogi awdurdodau lleol gyda strategaethau i fynd i’r afael â phroblemau yn y sector tai preifat ar osod ac i’w helpu i ddatblygu tai mewn cynlluniau cofrestru tai amlfeddiant.
I once again urge local authorities to take advantage of the resources available and use the extensive powers already available to them to prepare for licensing.
Unwaith eto anogaf awdurdodau lleol i fanteisio ar yr adnoddau sydd ar gael a defnyddio’r pwerau presennol sydd eisoes ar gael iddynt i baratoi ar gyfer trwyddedu.
Adroddiad Blynyddol y Pwyllgor Safonau
The Standards Committee’s Annual Report
I propose that
Cynigiaf fod
I am delighted to present the Committee on Standards of Conduct’s annual report. It covers the period from August 2000 to July 2001. All the Committee members take their work seriously. It is an important area of work for the whole Assembly. It is important that the public is confident that the highest ethical standards are observed by Assembly Members, and that the Assembly is seen to be a fit and proper institution for the trust of the electorate, who return us to serve here.
Mae’n bleser gennyf gyflwyno adroddiad blynyddol y Pwyllgor Safonau Ymddygiad. Mae’n cwmpasu’r cyfnod rhwng Awst 2000 a Gorffennaf 2001. Cymer pob Aelod o’r Pwyllgor eu gwaith o ddifrif. Mae’n faes gwaith pwysig i’r Cynulliad cyfan. Mae’n bwysig bod y cyhoedd yn hyderus bod Aelodau’r Cynulliad yn cadw at y safonau moesegol uchaf, ac yr ystyrir y Cynulliad yn gorff addas a phriodol y gall yr etholwyr a bleidleisiodd drosom i wasanaethu yma ymddiried ynddo.
The Committee met five times and considered four complaints. One complaint was upheld. There was a large volume of work, which went way beyond the consideration of complaints. The Committee’s work has attracted interest from other devolved institutions.
Cyfarfu’r Pwyllgor bum gwaith ac ystyriodd bedair cwyn. Cadarnhawyd un gŵyn. Bu cryn dipyn o waith i’w wneud, yn ychwanegol at y gwaith o ystyried cwynion. Mae gwaith y Pwyllgor wedi ennyn diddordeb y cyrff datganoledig eraill.
I highlight a few areas of interest regarding our work during the year. The first area relates to the registration of interest, which is at the heart of the Committee’s duties in maintaining a register.
Nodaf ychydig o feysydd o ddiddordeb mewn cysylltiad â’n gwaith yn ystod y flwyddyn. Mae’r maes cyntaf yn ymwneud â chofrestru buddiannau, sydd wrth wraidd dyletswyddau’r Cynulliad i gadw cofrestr.
A major review was completed in July 2000, just before the period covered by this annual report, but the revised guidance was issued in February 2001 after extensive consultation. The drafting of that guidance and its amendment required extensive work because it deals with some of the practical instances that Members face when considering whether to declare an interest.
Cwblhawyd arolwg sylweddol ym mis Gorffennaf 2000, ychydig cyn y cyfnod a gwmpesir gan yr adroddiad blynyddol hwn, ond cyhoeddwyd y canllawiau diwygiedig ym mis Chwefror 2001 ar ôl ymgynghoriad helaeth. Yr oedd y gwaith o ddrafftio’r canllawiau hynny a’u diwygio yn eithaf llafurus am eu bod yn ymdrin â’r rhai o’r enghreifftiau ymarferol a wyneba’r Aelodau wrth ystyried a ddylid datgan buddiant.
I am pleased to say that Members’ understanding of their obligations regarding registration and declaration now seems far clearer. Far fewer queries are now presented to the Table Office on such matters. That may well be due to the experience that Members have gained in the two and a half years that we have served here, but I think that the guidance generally has been clarified.
Mae’n dda gennyf nodi bod yr Aelodau yn deall eu dyletswyddau i gofnodi a datgan buddiannau llawer yn well erbyn hyn yn ôl pob golwg. Cyflwynir llawer llai o ymholiadau i’r Swyddfa Gyflwyno ar faterion o’r fath. Efallai mai profiad yr Aelodau yn ystod y ddwy flynedd a hanner y buom yn gwasanaethu yma sy’n gyfrifol, ond credaf fod y canllawiau yn fwy eglur yn gyffredinol erbyn hyn.
The second area that I will highlight relates to indirect interests, which were created by an Assembly resolution during the first month of the Assembly’s existence. During our review of interests, we identified some serious inconsistencies regarding the concept of indirect interests and how Members understood them. We have worked hard to try to clarify this issue. It has probably taken up most of our time. I thank the legal advisers who have worked with us because we have had to discuss matters in considerable detail to honour the spirit of what the Assembly wanted to achieve in that early resolution. We have come up with some proposals that are currently before the Business Committee to clarify this area of indirect interest. I understand that some measures may be brought before the Assembly during this year.
Mae’r ail faes yr hoffwn ei nodi yn ymwneud â buddiannau anuniongyrchol, a luniwyd drwy benderfyniad y Cynulliad yn ystod y mis cyntaf ar ôl ei sefydlu. Yn ystod ein hadolygiad o fuddiannau, nodwyd rhai anghysondebau difrifol gennym o ran y cysyniad o fuddiannau anuniongyrchol a sut yr oedd yr Aelodau yn eu deall. Gweithiasom yn ddiwyd i egluro’r mater hwnnw. Dyna, mae’n debyg, a aeth â’r rhan fwyaf o’n hamser. Diolchaf i’r cynghorwyr cyfreithiol a weithiodd gyda ni gan fod yn rhaid inni drafod materion yn fanwl iawn er mwyn cadw at ysbryd yr hyn yr oedd y Cynulliad am ei gyflawni yn y penderfyniad cynnar hwnnw. Yr ydym wedi llunio rhai cynigion sydd gerbron y Pwyllgor Busnes ar hyn o bryd i egluro buddiannau anuniongyrchol. Deallaf y caiff rhai mesurau eu dwyn gerbron y Cynulliad yn ystod y flwyddyn hon.
The third area that I will highlight is the review of standards procedures generally. It has been particularly challenging work because the Assembly is such a new institution, but the whole question of standards has been a wider one and has also been tackled in Westminster. In the 1990s, it became an important and, to some extent, controversial area of work. When the Committee was established we had to put a standards procedure into immediate effect. After two years, we are in a position to review our procedures in the light of experience. It is important that during this first Assembly we can develop as coherent a set of regulations on standards as possible and ensure that Members’ understanding of their obligations is clear. Therefore, the Committee has decided to undertake a comprehensive review of procedures, which will include looking at the effectiveness of our current complaints procedure; the role of the independent adviser who advises the Committee and the Presiding Officer directly; the role and jurisdiction of the Committee on Standards of Conduct and how that is understood by Members and the public, and the need for a de minimus procedure where we could deal with relatively minor matters by a more informal route. Currently, any complaint of whatever weight has to be dealt with through the full complaints procedure. We hope to consider all these areas to develop a more streamlined system on standards. We have appointed an expert adviser, Professor Diana Woodhouse of Oxford Brookes University, to undertake this work. She has had extensive experience in the area of standards and has worked in many parliamentary settings across western Europe and Australia. This review will commence in January 2002 and any conclusions will be brought before the Assembly.
Y trydydd maes a nodaf yw’r adolygiad o weithdrefnau safonau yn gyffredinol. Bu’n waith ymestynnol iawn am fod y Cynulliad mor newydd, ond bu mater safonau yn un ehangach, a mater yr ymdriniodd San Steffan ag ef hefyd. Yn y 1990au, daeth yn faes pwysig, ac un dadleuol i raddau. Pan sefydlwyd y Pwyllgor, yr oedd yn rhaid inni roi gweithdrefn safonau ar waith yn syth. Ar ôl dwy flynedd, yr ydym mewn sefyllfa i adolygu ein gweithdrefnau yng ngoleuni profiad. Mae’n bwysig ein bod yn gallu datblygu cyfres o reoliadau ynghylch safonau sydd mor gydlynus â phosibl yn y Cynulliad cyntaf hwn a sicrhau bod yr Aelodau yn deall eu rhwymedigaethau yn glir. Felly, penderfynodd y Pwyllgor gynnal adolygiad cynhwysfawr o’r gweithdrefnau, a fydd yn cynnwys ystyried effeithiolrwydd ein gweithdrefn gwyno bresennol; rôl y cynghorydd annibynnol sy’n rhoi cyngor yn uniongyrchol i’r Pwyllgor a’r Llywydd; rôl ac awdurdodaeth y Pwyllgor Safonau Ymddygiad a sut y mae’r Aelodau a’r cyhoedd yn deall hynny a’r angen am weithdrefn de minimus lle y gallem ymdrin â materion cymharol ddibwys drwy lwybr mwy anffurfiol. Ar hyn o bryd, rhaid ymdrin ag unrhyw gŵyn waeth pa mor sylweddol bynnag ydyw drwy’r weithdrefn gwyno lawn. Gobeithiwn ystyried yr holl feysydd hyn er mwyn datblygu system symlach ar safonau. Penodwyd cynghorydd arbenigol gennym, sef yr Athro Diana Woodhouse o Brifysgol Oxford Brookes, i ymgymryd â’r gwaith hwn. Mae ganddi brofiad helaeth ym maes safonau a bu’n gweithio mewn sawl lleoliad seneddol ar draws gorllewin Ewrop ac Awstralia. Bydd yr adolygiad hwn yn dechrau ym mis Ionawr 2002 a chaiff unrhyw gasgliadau eu rhoi gerbron y Cynulliad.
The fourth area that I will mention is freemasonry. The Committee took evidence from masons after the Presiding Officer referred this matter to us. Freemasons emphasised the fact that they are the only fraternal organisation whose membership has to be included in the register. They contended that that singled them out in a way that breached their human rights. We considered this seriously and a recent decision by the European Court of Human Rights in Strasbourg on a case under the European Convention on Human Rights will further inform the Committee’s deliberations. The Committee will return to this question at its next meeting.
Y pedwerydd maes y cyfeiriaf ato yw seiri rhyddion. Cymerodd y Pwyllgor dystiolaeth gan seiri rhyddion ar ôl i’r Llywydd gyfeirio’r mater hwn inni. Pwysleisiodd y seiri rhyddion y ffaith mai hwy yw’r unig sefydliad brawdol y mae’n rhaid i’w aelodau nodi eu haelodaeth ar y gofrestr. Honnwyd ganddynt eu bod, o ganlyniad, yn cael eu trin mewn ffordd wahanol i bawb arall a hynny yn groes i’w hawliau dynol. Ystyriwyd y mater hwn o ddifrif gennym a chaiff trafodaethau’r Pwyllgor eu llywio ymhellach gan benderfyniad diweddar gan y Llys Ewropeaidd ar Hawliau Dynol yn Strasbourg ar achos o dan y Confensiwn Ewropeaidd ar Hawliau Dynol. Bydd y Pwyllgor yn dychwelyd at y cwestiwn hwn yn ei gyfarfod nesaf.
In conclusion, it is an honour to chair the Committee. The Committee members work hard and are committed. The non-partisan way in which they undertake their duties is splendid. We are supported by the most competent secretariat and legal advice, which has allowed us to get on with our work in a constructive, effective and non-partisan way. I formally record my thanks to Richard Penn, the independent adviser on standards, and David Lambert, the Presiding Officer’s legal adviser.
I gloi, mae’n fraint imi gadeirio’r Pwyllgor. Mae aelodau’r Pwyllgor yn ddiwyd ac yn ymrwymedig. Mae’r ffordd amhleidiol y maent yn ymgymryd â’u dyletswyddau yn wych. Fe’n cefnogir gan ysgrifenyddiaeth a chyngor cyfreithiol tra medrus, sydd wedi ein galluogi i fwrw ymlaen â’n gwaith mewn ffordd adeiladol, effeithiol ac amhleidiol. Hoffwn gofnodi fy niolch yn ffurfiol i Richard Penn, y cynghorydd annibynnol ar safonau, a David Lambert, cynghorydd cyfreithiol y Llywydd.
As I only joined the Committee in April, I believe that I have only attended two Committee meetings. I have been impressed by the Committee’s efficiency. Standards of conduct are important in every walk of life, but particularly in the sphere of politics, as we represent the public and their interests. As the Assembly is a new institution, we should all help to establish a good reputation. We must be seen to be whiter than white. The public does not have a good perception of politicians these days; in polls, we are regularly ranked with journalists and lawyers as one of the least trustworthy professions. We must all work towards dispelling that unfair view.
Gan mai dim ond ym mis Ebrill yr ymunais â’r Pwyllgor, credaf mai dau gyfarfod yn unig a fynychwyd gennyf. Gwnaeth effeithiolrwydd y Pwyllgor gryn argraff arnaf. Mae safonau ymddygiad yn bwysig ymhob agwedd ar fywyd, ond yn enwedig ym myd gwleidyddiaeth, gan ein bod yn cynrychioli’r cyhoedd a’u buddiannau. Gan mai sefydliad newydd yw’r Cynulliad, dylem oll helpu i sefydlu ei enw da. Rhaid inni sicrhau yr ystyrir ein hymddygiad yn hollol ddilychwin. Nid yw’r cyhoedd yn meddwl yn uchel o wleidyddion y dyddiau hyn; mewn arolygon barn, yr ydym ar yr un safle â newyddiadurwyr a chyfreithwyr fel un o’r proffesiynau y gellir ymddiried ynddo leiaf. Rhaid inni oll weithio tuag at gael gwared ar y safbwynt annheg hwnnw.
I am pleased to read in the Committee’s report that, from the evidence submitted, there are few grounds for concern about the ethical standards of Assembly Members. Only one of the four complaints heard during the year was upheld, and, as far as I can see, all the complaints revolved around the legitimate use of stationery by AMs. The Committee members have all worked in a non-partisan, non-party political way. This is essential to ensure that standards of conduct in the Assembly remain as high and unimpeachable as they currently are. I thank the Assembly’s independent adviser on standards of conduct, Richard Penn, for all his hard work and valuable assistance to the Committee in its work and investigations. I also thank David for chairing the Committee so efficiently.
Yr wyf yn falch o ddarllen yn adroddiad y Pwyllgor nad oes braidd dim sy’n achosi pryder ynghylch safonau moesegol Aelodau’r Cynulliad ar sail y dystiolaeth a gyflwynwyd. Dim ond un gŵyn a gadarnhawyd o’r pedair y gwrandawyd arnynt yn ystod y flwyddyn, a, hyd y gwelaf, yr oedd pob un o’r cwynion yn ymwneud â’r defnydd a wneir gan ACau o bapur ysgrifennu’r Cynulliad. Bu aelodau’r Pwyllgor oll yn gweithio mewn ffordd amhleidiol. Mae hyn yn hanfodol i sicrhau bod safonau ymddygiad yn y Cynulliad yn parhau yn uchel a dilychwin fel y maent ar hyn o bryd. Diolchaf i gynghorydd annibynnol y Cynulliad ar safonau ymddygiad, Richard Penn, am ei holl waith caled a’i gymorth gwerthfawr i waith ac ymchwiliadau’r Pwyllgor. Hoffwn ddiolch hefyd i David am gadeirio’r Pwyllgor mor effeithlon.
Croesawaf yr adroddiad. Mae’n grynodeb defnyddiol o waith y Pwyllgor Safonau Ymddygiad yn ystod y flwyddyn ddiwethaf. Mae’r adroddiad yn tynnu sylw at faterion o bwys, yn enwedig y posibilrwydd o gamddefnyddio’r Pwyllgor er mwyn creu cyhoeddusrwydd i’r Aelod unigol. Cafodd hynny ei ystyried. Mae’n bwysig bod yr Aelodau yn gwerthfawrogi rôl ddifrifol a phwysig y Pwyllgor. Ni ddywedaf hynny i ganu fy nghlodydd fy hun fel aelod o’r Pwyllgor. Mae’n Bwyllgor pwysig sy’n trafod materion difrifol. Mae pob aelod yn cymryd ei waith o ddifrif ac mae’n dda gweld cydweithio trawsbleidiol, fel y dywedodd Eleanor a David. Mae hynny’n nodweddu gwaith y Pwyllgor.
I welcome the report. It is an useful summary of the Committee on Standards of Conduct’s work during the past year. The report highlights important issues, particularly the possibility of misusing the Committee in order to generate publicity for the individual Member. That has been considered. It is important that Members appreciate the Committee’s serious and important role. I am not saying that to blow my own trumpet as a member of the Committee. It is an important Committee that debates serious issues. All members take their work seriously and, as Eleanor and David said, it is good to see cross-party co-operation. That is a feature of the Committee’s work.
Mae’r adroddiad hefyd yn cyfeirio at natur ddatblygol gwaith y Pwyllgor, a’n bwriad i lunio a mewnoli’r rheolau a’r gweithdrefnau mwyaf effeithiol posibl. Mae cynnal yr adolygiad o weithdrefnau, y cyfeirir ato yn yr adroddiad, yn gam pwysig ymlaen. Mae hwn yn faes newydd a heriol i nifer o aelodau’r Pwyllgor.
The report also refers to the developmental nature of the Committee’s work, and our intention to create and integrate the most effective rules and procedures possible. Conducting the review of procedures, to which reference is made in the report, is an important step forward. This is a new and challenging area for several Committee members.
Edrychaf ymlaen at adroddiad yr ymgynghorydd annibynnol ar safonau. Bydd hwnnw i’w groesawu, gan y bydd yn tanlinellu’r ymrwymiad i sefydlu gweithdrefnau effeithiol.
I look forward to the report of the independent adviser on standards. That will be welcome, as it will underline the commitment to establish effective procedures.
Yr wyf yn falch fod yr adroddiad yn cadarnhau bod Aelodau yn arddel y safonau ymddygiad gorau posibl. Mae hynny’n glod i bob Aelod. Ar ran grŵp Plaid Cymru, croesawaf yr adroddiad. Diolchaf i’r Cadeirydd am ei ddoethineb ac am gadeirio’r Pwyllgor yn ddihafal a diduedd. Yr ydym oll yn gwerthfawrogi hynny, David. Ategaf ddiolchiadau’r Cadeirydd i’r clerc a’r dirprwy glerc a’r unigolion eraill sy’n ymwneud â gwaith y Pwyllgor ac sy’n sicrhau ein bod yn gweithio’n effeithiol.
I am pleased that the report confirms that Members uphold the highest possible standards of conduct. That is to the credit of all Members. On behalf of the Plaid Cymru group, I welcome the report. I thank the Chair for his wisdom and for chairing the Committee in his own inimitable and unbiased way. We all appreciate that, David. I echo the Chair’s thanks to the clerk and the deputy clerk and to other individuals who are involved in the Committee’s work and who ensure that we work effectively.
In winding up, I place on record how easy it is to chair the Committee on Standards of Conduct, at least when we are not meeting to consider a complaint. The members take their work so seriously and in such a productive sense that chairing the Committee gives me great enjoyment and satisfaction.
Wrth ddirwyn y ddadl hon i ben, hoffwn gofnodi pa mor hawdd oedd imi gadeirio’r Pwyllgor Safonau Ymddygiad, o leiaf pan nad ydym yn cyfarfod i ystyried cwyn. Cymer yr aelodau eu gwaith gymaint o ddifrif ac mewn ffordd mor gynhyrchiol fel bod cadeirio’r pwyllgor yn rhoi pleser a boddhad mawr imi.
Only two contributions were made, which I hope means that Members are generally content with the Committee’s work. However, important points were raised. Eleanor Burnham stressed something that should be repeated. I hope that I am not tempting fate, but last year and the year before we only identified a few reasons to fear that standards are not high in the National Assembly, or that Members do not take their obligations with due seriousness. We hope that that will be maintained. We see it as part of our role to encourage Members to maintain these high standards and not fall into disrepute. That is an important principle.
Dim ond dau gyfraniad a gafwyd, sy’n golygu, gobeithio, bod yr Aelodau yn fodlon yn gyffredinol ar waith y Pwyllgor. Fodd bynnag, codwyd pwyntiau pwysig. Pwysleisiodd Eleanor Burnham rywbeth y dylid ei ategu. Gobeithiaf na fyddaf yn temtio ffawd ond, y llynedd a’r flwyddyn cyn hynny, dim ond ychydig o achosion a nodwyd gennym dros gredu nad yw safonau yn uchel yn y Cynulliad Cenedlaethol, neu nad yw’r Aelodau yn cymryd eu rhwymedigaethau o ddifrif. Gobeithiwn y bydd hynny yn parhau. Rhan o’n rôl, yn ein tyb ni, yw annog yr Aelodau i gadw at y safonau uchel hyn a pheidio â dwyn anfri ar y Cynulliad. Mae honno yn egwyddor bwysig.
Gareth Jones mentioned the danger of the Committee on Standards of Conduct being overrun by politically motivated complaints. We have occasionally received such concerns—not necessarily from fellow Assembly Members but from those outwith the Assembly—that some people see the Committee as a political arena. We are avoiding that danger as we get to grips with the Committee’s work and its appropriate role, and with educating people on when it is appropriate to refer matters to us. We must be careful, as nothing would undermine our work more assuredly than if we were to be used in a politically motivated way.
Soniodd Gareth Jones am y perygl y câi’r Pwyllgor Safonau Ymddygiad ei lethu gan gwynion a wnaethpwyd oherwydd cymhellion gwleidyddol. Mynegwyd pryderon o’r fath inni o bryd i’w gilydd—nid gan ein cyd-Aelodau o reidrwydd ond gan bobl y tu allan i’r Cynulliad—bod rhai pobl yn ystyried y Pwyllgor yn arena wleidyddol. Yr ydym yn osgoi’r perygl hwnnw wrth inni fynd i’r afael â gwaith y Pwyllgor a’i rôl briodol, ac wrth addysgu pobl ynghylch pryd y mae’n briodol i gyfeirio materion atom. Rhaid inni fod yn ofalus gan mai’r ffordd fwyaf sicr o danselio ein gwaith fyddai pe baem yn cael ein defnyddio mewn ffordd bleidgar.
The review of procedures that Gareth also mentioned will be our main developmental work for the year ahead.
Ein prif waith datblygu yn ystod y flwyddyn nesaf fydd yr adolygiad o weithdrefnau a grybwyllwyd gan Gareth hefyd fydd.
In conclusion, I stress to Members that we must spend more time considering how to develop the code of standards, and improving our complaints procedures, although complaints have thankfully been rare—and long may that continue.
I gloi, pwysleisiaf i’r Aelodau fod yn rhaid inni dreulio mwy o amser yn ystyried sut y dylid datblygu cod safonau, a gwella ein gweithdrefnau cwyno, er prin yw’r cwynion, diolch byth—hir y parhaed hynny.
Cynnig NDM840 David Melding t. 92
Motion NDM840 David Melding p. 92
DerbyniwydAdopted O blaidFor 34 YmatalAbstain 0 Yn erbynAgainst 0
Derbyniwyd y cynnig.
Motion carried.
Sut y pleidleisiodd yr AelodauHow Members voted
O blaidFor (34)
- Peter Black
- Eleanor Burnham
- Rosemary Butler
- Alun Cairns
- Christine Chapman
- Andrew Davies
- David Davies
- Geraint Davies
- Glyn Davies
- Jocelyn Davies
- Sue Essex
- Delyth Evans
- Brian Gibbons
- William Graham
- John Griffiths
- Edwina Hart
- Jane Hutt
- Ann Jones
- Elin Jones
- Gareth Jones
- Ieuan Wyn Jones
- Peter Law
- David Lloyd
- Val Lloyd
- David Melding
- Tom Middlehurst
- Jonathan Morgan
- Jenny Randerson
- Peter Rogers
- Janet Ryder
- Karen Sinclair
- Gwenda Thomas
- Owen John Thomas
- Rhodri Glyn Thomas
Daeth y cyfarfod i ben am 4.49 p.m.
The session ended at 4.49 p.m.