English

Cynulliad Cenedlaethol CymruNational Assembly for Wales · Cyfarfod llawnPlenary sitting

Dydd Iau 11 Gorffennaf 2002

Thursday 11 July 2002

DechreuoddMet 09:05 · Daeth i benRose 12:46

Gweld y Cofnod (PDF)View the Record (PDF)

Heb ei wirio â llaw etoNot yet checked by hand

CynnwysContents

  1. 3Cwestiynau i’r Gweinidog dros Addysg a Dysgu Gydol OesQuestions to the Minister for Education and Lifelong Learning
    1. 3Oriau Agor YsgolionSchool Opening Hours
    2. 4Athrawon sy’n Gymwys i Ddysgu drwy Gyfrwng y GymraegTeachers Qualified to Teach in Welsh
    3. 6Colegau Addysg BellachFurther Education Colleges
    4. 8Lleihau Gwaith Papur AthrawonReducing Teachers’ Paperwork
    5. 10Cynllun Tâl ar Sail PerfformiadPerformance-related Pay Scheme
    6. 11Gwariant ar Adeiladau YsgolionExpenditure on School Buildings
  2. 13Cwestiynau i’r Gweinidog dros Iechyd a Gwasanaethau CymdeithasolQuestions to the Minister for Health and Social Services
    1. 13Sgrinio Iechyd RhywiolSexual Health Screening
    2. 14Talu am BresgripsiynauPrescription Charges
    3. 16Ymgynghorwyr Clefyd SiwgrConsultant Diabetologists
    4. 17Ymwybyddiaeth o Glefyd SiwgrAwareness of Diabetes
    5. 19Anghydraddoldebau IechydHealth Inequalities
    6. 21Darpariaeth DdeintyddolDental Provision
  3. 23Datganiad ar Allied Steel and WireStatement on Allied Steel and Wire
  4. 38Datganiad ar Ofal LliniarolStatement on Palliative Care
  5. 52Pwynt o DrefnPoint of Order
  6. 54Cymeradwyo Rheoliadau’r Gwasanaeth Iechyd Gwladol (Gwasanaethau Meddygol Cyffredinol) (Diwygio) (Rhif 3) (Cymru) 2002Approval of the National Health Service (General Medical Services) (Amendment) (No. 3) (Wales) Regulations 2002 2 o bleidleisiau2 votes
  7. 57Cymeradwyo Rheolau Trafnidiaeth a Gweithfeydd (Gweithdrefn Ceisiadau a Gwrthwynebiadau) (Cymru a Lloegr) 2002Approval of the Transport and Works (Application and Objections Procedure) (England and Wales) Rules 2002 1 bleidlais1 vote
  8. 62Adroddiad Blynyddol Cynllun y Sector GwirfoddolThe Annual Report of the Voluntary Sector Scheme 3 o bleidleisiau3 votes
  9. 84Cynnig TrefniadolProcedural Motion 1 bleidlais1 vote
  10. 85Deddf Rhyddid Gwybodaeth 2000 a Dirprwyo Swyddogaethau i Brif Weinidog CymruThe Freedom of Information Act 2000 and the Delegation of Functions to the First Minister 4 o bleidleisiau4 votes
  11. 99Dadl FerShort Debate
    1. 99Prydles—Diwygio PellachLeasehold–Further Reform

PleidleisiauVotes

PleidlaisVoteO blaidForYmatalAbstainYn erbynAgainstCanlyniadResult
Cymeradwyo Rheoliadau’r Gwasanaeth Iechyd Gwladol (Gwasanaethau Meddygol Cyffredinol) (Diwygio) (Rhif 3) (Cymru) 2002Approval of the National Health Service (General Medical Services) (Amendment) (No. 3) (Wales) Regulations 2002
Cynnig NDM1124Motion NDM11244000DerbyniwydAdopted
Cynnig NDM1125Motion NDM11254000DerbyniwydAdopted
Cymeradwyo Rheolau Trafnidiaeth a Gweithfeydd (Gweithdrefn Ceisiadau a Gwrthwynebiadau) (Cymru a Lloegr) 2002Approval of the Transport and Works (Application and Objections Procedure) (England and Wales) Rules 2002
Cynnig NDM1126Motion NDM11263801DerbyniwydAdopted
Adroddiad Blynyddol Cynllun y Sector GwirfoddolThe Annual Report of the Voluntary Sector Scheme
Gwelliant 1Amendment 14300DerbyniwydAdopted
Gwelliant 2Amendment 24300DerbyniwydAdopted
Cynnig NDM1127Motion NDM11274400DerbyniwydAdopted
Cynnig TrefniadolProcedural Motion
Cynnig trefniadolProcedural motion4200DerbyniwydAdopted
Deddf Rhyddid Gwybodaeth 2000 a Dirprwyo Swyddogaethau i Brif Weinidog CymruThe Freedom of Information Act 2000 and the Delegation of Functions to the First Minister
Gwelliant 1Amendment 116025GwrthodwydRejected
Gwelliant 2Amendment 216025GwrthodwydRejected
Cynnig NDM1128Motion NDM11284100DerbyniwydAdopted
Cynnig NNDM1129Motion NNDM11294000DerbyniwydAdopted

TrafodionProceedings

Cyfarfu’r Cynulliad am 9.05 a.m. gyda’r Llywydd yn y Gadair.

The Assembly met at 9.05 a.m. with the Presiding Officer in the Chair.

Cwestiynau i’r Gweinidog dros Addysg a Dysgu Gydol Oes

Questions to the Minister for Education and Lifelong Learning

Oriau Agor Ysgolion

School Opening Hours

C1 Gareth Jones siaradwyd yn Gymraeg t. 3

Q1 Gareth Jones spoken in Welsh p. 3

A fu unrhyw newidiadau i’r oriau statudol y mae ysgolion cynradd i fod ar agor o fis Medi ymlaen? (OAQ18928)

Have any changes been made to the statutory primary school opening hours from September? (OAQ18928)

Jane Davidson Y Gweinidog dros Addysg a Dysgu Gydol Oes siaradwyd yn Gymraeg t. 3

Jane Davidson The Minister for Education and Lifelong Learning spoken in Welsh p. 3

Ni chafwyd unrhyw newidiadau ers Rheoliadau Newid Amserau Sesiynau Ysgolion (Cymru) 2000, a ddaeth i rym ar 1 Medi 2000, sy’n amlinellu’r trefniadau i’r newid—

There have been no changes since the Changing of School Session Times (Wales) Regulations 2000, which came into effect on 1 September 2000, setting out the arrangements for changes—

David Melding spoken in English p. 3

David Melding siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 3

Point of order. The simultaneuos translation service is not working.

Pwynt o drefn. Nid yw’r gwasanaeth cyfieithu ar y pryd yn gweithio.

Dafydd Elis-Thomas The Presiding Officer spoken in English p. 3

Dafydd Elis-Thomas Y Llywydd siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 3

It seems to be working now. Please ask the question again.

Mae’n ymddangos ei fod yn gweithio’n awr. Gofynnwch y cwestiwn eto, os gwelwch yn dda.

Gareth Jones siaradwyd yn Gymraeg t. 3

Gareth Jones spoken in Welsh p. 3

A fu unrhyw newidiadau i’r oriau statudol y mae ysgolion cynradd i fod ar agor o fis Medi ymlaen?

Have any changes been made to the statutory primary school opening hours from September?

Jane Davidson siaradwyd yn Gymraeg t. 3

Jane Davidson spoken in Welsh p. 3

Ni chafwyd unrhyw newidiadau ers Rheoliadau Newid Amserau Sesiynau Ysgolion (Cymru) 2000, a ddaeth i rym ar 1 Medi 2000, sy’n amlinellu’r trefniadau i’r newid amserau agor a chau ysgolion. Yn unol â’r rheoliadau, rhaid cynnal cyfnod ymgynghori tri mis a sicrhau bod unrhyw newid yn digwydd ar ddechrau’r flwyddyn ysgol.

There have been no changes since the Changing of School Session Times (Wales) Regulations 2000, which came into effect on 1 September 2000, setting out the arrangements for changes to school opening and closing times. In accordance with the regulations, there must be a three-month consultation period, and any change can only take effect from the beginning of the school year.

Mae’r rheoliadau hyn ond yn berthnasol i ysgolion cymunedol, ysgolion gwirfoddol a reolir, ac ysgolion cymunedol arbennig. Y cyrff llywodraethu sy’n gyfrifol am ysgolion sefydledig ac ysgolion gwirfoddol a gynorthwyir.

These regulations apply only to community, voluntary controlled, and community special schools. Responsibility for foundation and voluntary aided schools rests with their governing bodies.

Gareth Jones siaradwyd yn Gymraeg t. 3

Gareth Jones spoken in Welsh p. 3

A allwch gadarnhau y bydd ymgynghori â rhieni ac athrawon yn ofynnol yn y cyfnod ymgynghorol hwnnw?

Can you confirm that consultation with parents and teachers will be a prerequisite during that consultation period?

Jane Davidson spoken in English p. 4

Jane Davidson siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 4

I understand that consultation with parents and teachers is a full requirement of the consultation period. I will send you a copy of the regulations so that you can write to me if you have any further concerns relating to an individual school.

Deallaf mai ymgynghori â rhieni ac athrawon yw un o ofynion llawn y cyfnod ymgynghori. Anfonaf gopi o’r rheoliadau atoch fel y gallwch ysgrifennu ataf os oes gennych unrhyw bryderon pellach ynghylch ysgol benodol.

David Melding spoken in English p. 4

David Melding siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 4

There is a growing trend for parents to take their children to school some time before school starts—the pressures of working life often mean that this can be an hour or more before school starts. Can you assure us that you will consider this matter, and that the required safety measures are in place if children are on school premises before the official opening time?

Mae tuedd gynyddol i rieni fynd â’u plant i’r ysgol beth amser cyn i’r ysgol ddechrau—mae pwysau bywyd gwaith yn golygu’n aml y gall hynny fod yn awr neu fwy cyn i’r ysgol ddechrau. A allwch ein sicrhau y gwnewch ystyried y mater hwn, a bod y mesurau diogelwch gofynnol ar waith os yw plant ar dir yr ysgol cyn yr amser agor swyddogol?

Jane Davidson spoken in English p. 4

Jane Davidson siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 4

School governing bodies are responsible for what happens in schools. New clauses in the Education Bill currently going through Parliament will allow governing bodies to arrange for activities to take place outside the school day for the benefit of children and families in the catchment area. That will be helpful because it will regularise much of the informal arrangements that currently exist. We are putting a great deal of extra funding into out-of-school-hours learning generally, which includes breakfast clubs and after-school activities. We allocated £90,000 last year for Education Extra development officers and I announced a further £100,000 in funding a few days ago.

Cyrff llywodraethu’r ysgolion sy’n gyfrifol am yr hyn sy’n digwydd mewn ysgolion. Bydd cymalau newydd yn y Mesur Addysg sy’n mynd drwy’r Senedd ar hyn o bryd yn caniatáu i gyrff llywodraethu drefnu bod gweithgareddau’n digwydd y tu allan i’r diwrnod ysgol er budd plant a theuluoedd yn y dalgylch. Bydd hynny o gymorth gan y bydd yn rheoleiddio llawer o’r trefniadau anffurfiol a geir ar hyn o bryd. Yr ydym yn rhoi llawer iawn o gyllid ychwanegol at ddysgu y tu allan i oriau ysgol yn gyffredinol, ac mae hynny’n cynnwys clybiau brecwast a gweithgareddau ar ôl ysgol. Gwnaethom ddyrannu £90,000 y llynedd ar gyfer swyddogion datblygu Addysg a Mwy a chyhoeddais £100,000 o gyllid ychwanegol ychydig ddyddiau’n ôl.

Athrawon sy’n Gymwys i Ddysgu drwy Gyfrwng y Gymraeg

Teachers Qualified to Teach in Welsh

Q2 William Graham spoken in English p. 4

C2 William Graham siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 4

Will the Minister make a statement concerning the number of secondary school teachers, currently working outside Welsh-medium schools, who are qualified to teach subjects in the Welsh language? (OAQ18861) [R]

A wnaiff y Gweinidog ddatganiad ynghylch nifer yr athrawon uwchradd sy’n gweithio y tu allan i ysgolion cyfrwng Cymraeg ar hyn o bryd, ac sy’n gymwys i ddysgu pynciau drwy gyfrwng y Gymraeg? (OAQ18861) [R]

Jane Davidson spoken in English p. 4

Jane Davidson siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 4

In 2000-01, 331 teachers considered able or qualified to teach Welsh or through the medium of Welsh were working outside Welsh-medium secondary schools.

Yn 2000-01, yr oedd 331 o athrawon a ystyrid yn abl neu’n gymwys i ddysgu’r Gymraeg neu drwy gyfrwng y Gymraeg yn gweithio y tu allan i ysgolion uwchradd cyfrwng Cymraeg.

William Graham spoken in English p. 5

William Graham siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 5

In her response to the debate noting the policy review of the Welsh language earlier this week, the Minister for Culture, Sport and the Welsh Language failed to recognise the significant contribution that experienced teachers could make towards actively promoting the Welsh language. Is that not an example of this administration’s failure to ask the right questions? They failed to do so with regard to Corus and foot and mouth disease and now fail to do so with the promotion of the Welsh language?

Yn ei hymateb i’r ddadl i nodi’r adolygiad polisi o’r Gymraeg yn gynharach yr wythnos hon, methodd y Gweinidog dros Ddiwylliant, Chwaraeon a’r Gymraeg â chydnabod y cyfraniad sylweddol y gallai athrawon profiadol ei wneud tuag at hyrwyddo’r Gymraeg yn weithredol. Onid yw hynny’n enghraifft o fethiant y weinyddiaeth hon i ofyn y cwestiynau iawn? Methasant â gwneud hynny mewn cysylltiad â Corus a chlwy’r traed a’r genau ac maent yn methu â gwneud hynny’n awr o ran hyrwyddo’r Gymraeg.

Jane Davidson spoken in English p. 5

Jane Davidson siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 5

No. In her response earlier this week my colleague, the Minister for Culture, Sport and the Welsh Language, outlined the broad principles of the Cabinet’s response to the Welsh language review. We offer a great deal of support for teachers to move to Welsh-medium teaching through grants for education support and training funding and by providing training and support measures for the development of Welsh as a first and second language inside the national curriculum. There are also opportunities for teachers to submit proposals to receive funding from the General Teaching Council for Wales to support Welsh-language training. We also announced in ‘Reaching Higher’ that we would consider language sabbaticals as a way of encouraging more teachers to change their language of instruction. We are actively engaged in this issue. We will be clear about our proposals in terms of education, which we will publish in the autumn.

Nac ydyw. Yn ei hymateb yn gynharach yr wythnos hon, amlinellodd y Gweinidog dros Ddiwylliant, Chwaraeon a’r Gymraeg egwyddorion cyffredinol ymateb y Cabinet i’r adolygiad o’r Gymraeg. Yr ydym yn cynnig llawer iawn o gymorth i athrawon symud at ddysgu drwy gyfrwng y Gymraeg drwy grantiau ar gyfer cyllid cynnal addysg a hyfforddiant a thrwy ddarparu mesurau hyfforddiant a chymorth i ddatblygu’r Gymraeg yn iaith gyntaf ac yn ail iaith o fewn y cwricwlwm cenedlaethol. Mae cyfleoedd hefyd i athrawon gyflwyno cynigion i dderbyn cyllid oddi wrth Gyngor Addysgu Cyffredinol Cymru i gynnal hyfforddiant Cymraeg. Gwnaethom gyhoeddi hefyd yn ‘Cyrraedd yn Uwch’ yr ystyriem gyfnodau sabothol iaith fel modd i annog rhagor o athrawon i newid iaith eu dysgu. Yr ydym yn ymwneud yn weithredol â’r mater hwn. Byddwn yn bendant ynghylch ein cynigion o ran addysg, a gyhoeddwn yn yr hydref.

Helen Mary Jones spoken in English p. 5

Helen Mary Jones siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 5

On teachers outside the Welsh-medium sector, do you agree that teaching some practical subjects, such as physical education, through the medium of Welsh in English-medium school where it is appropriate and if the staff were available, might be a reasonable way of developing pupils’ language skills? Do you share my concern about some of the hysterical reactions in the press over recent weeks to what I think you will agree is a sensible and moderate suggestion? Will you undertake today not to rule out that suggestion in your action plan in the autumn?

Ynghylch athrawon y tu allan i’r sector cyfrwng Cymraeg, a ydych yn cytuno y byddai dysgu rhai pynciau ymarferol, fel addysg gorfforol, drwy gyfrwng y Gymraeg mewn ysgol cyfrwng Saesneg pan fo’n briodol ac os oes staff ar gael, yn ddull rhesymol o ddatblygu sgiliau iaith disgyblion? A ydych yn rhannu fy mhryder ynghylch rhai o’r ymatebion gorffwyll yn y wasg dros yr wythnosau diwethaf hyn i’r hyn y credaf y byddech yn cytuno ei fod yn awgrym synhwyrol a chymedrol? A wnewch ymgymryd heddiw i beidio â diystyru’r awgrym hwnnw yn eich cynllun gweithredu yn yr hydref?

Jane Davidson spoken in English p. 6

Jane Davidson siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 6

That is a helpful question. One comment in the press in the last few weeks was that the Education and Lifelong Learning Committee is looking to ensure that subjects, such as practical subjects, are taught through the medium of Welsh in English-medium schools. Nothing could be further from the Committee’s position. I am happy to endorse that position as a Committee member by saying that we want to build on the success of schools such as Builth Wells High School and Treorchy Comprehensive School, which have started to teach some subjects through the medium of Welsh in an English-medium environment, where it is appropriate and is supported by parents and pupils. This Government is committed to developing a bilingual Wales and we want to seek opportunities, but we must get away from the idea that there would be any compulsion for English-medium schools to teach through the medium of Welsh. We are looking to create further opportunities for young people to benefit from a greater dialogue with the Welsh language.

Mae hwnnw’n gwestiwn defnyddiol. Un sylw yn y wasg yn yr wythnosau diwethaf hyn oedd bod y Pwyllgor Addysg a Dysgu Gydol Oes yn ceisio sicrhau y caiff rhai pynciau, fel pynciau ymarferol, eu dysgu drwy gyfrwng y Gymraeg mewn ysgolion cyfrwng Saesneg. Ni allai dim fod yn bellach o safbwynt y Pwyllgor. Yr wyf yn falch o ategu’r safbwynt hwnnw fel aelod o’r Pwyllgor drwy ddweud ein bod yn dymuno adeiladu ar sail llwyddiant ysgolion fel Ysgol Uwchradd Llanfair-ym-Muallt ac Ysgol Gyfun Treorci, sydd wedi dechrau dysgu rhai pynciau drwy gyfrwng y Gymraeg mewn amgylchedd cyfrwng Saesneg, lle y mae’n briodol ac yn cael ei gefnogi gan y rhieni a’r disgyblion. Mae’r Llywodraeth hon wedi ymrwymo i feithrin Cymru ddwyieithog a dymunwn chwilio am gyfleoedd, ond rhaid inni gael gwared â’r syniad y byddai unrhyw orfodaeth ar ysgolion cyfrwng Saesneg i ddysgu drwy gyfrwng y Gymraeg. Yr ydym yn ceisio creu cyfleoedd ychwanegol i bobl ifanc gael budd o ddeialog fwy â’r Gymraeg.

Colegau Addysg Bellach

Further Education Colleges

C3 Cynog Dafis siaradwyd yn Gymraeg t. 6

Q3 Cynog Dafis spoken in Welsh p. 6

Sut y mae’r Gweinidog yn annog colegau addysg bellach Cymru i wella cyfraddau cadw myfyrwyr? (OAQ18916)

How is the Minister encouraging further education colleges in Wales to improve student retention rates? (OAQ18916)

Jane Davidson spoken in English p. 6

Jane Davidson siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 6

One main reason for students dropping out of further education is financial difficulties. In order to tackle this, I have introduced the Assembly learning grant, which will be available from September, to provide a guaranteed level of support for the least well off students. This is the first time that such a grant has been available to FE students. I will also provide the sector with financial contingency funds to enable colleges to provide the same kind of support that they currently offer through access funds.

Un o’r prif resymau y mae myfyrwyr yn rhoi’r gorau i addysg bellach yw anawsterau ariannol. Er mwyn mynd i’r afael â hyn, yr wyf wedi cyflwyno grant dysgu’r Cynulliad, a fydd ar gael o Fedi ymlaen, i ddarparu lefel warantedig o gymorth i’r myfyrwyr lleiaf cefnog. Dyma’r tro cyntaf i grant o’r fath fod ar gael i fyfyrwyr addysg bellach. Gwnaf hefyd ddarparu cyllid wrth gefn ar gyfer y sector i alluogi colegau i ddarparu’r un math o gymorth ag a gynigiant ar hyn o bryd drwy gyllid mynediad.

Cynog Dafis siaradwyd yn Gymraeg t. 7

Cynog Dafis spoken in Welsh p. 7

Yn ôl Fforwm, mae cyfraddau cadw myfyrwyr mewn addysg bellach yng Nghymru yn is na’r cyfraddau yn Lloegr—72 y cant o’i gymharu ag 85 y cant. Dywed Fforwm hefyd mai rheswm posibl am hynny yw diffyg arian yn y system ar gyfer gwasanaethau cefnogi a chynghori myfyrwyr. A ydych yn bwriadu gweithredu mewn perthynas â’r gymhariaeth anffafriol hon?

According to Fforwm, further education retention rates in Wales are lower than the rates in England—72 per cent compared with 85 per cent. Fforwm also says that one possible reason for this is lack of money in the system for student support and advice services. Do you intend to act in relation to this unfavourable comparison?

Jane Davidson spoken in English p. 7

Jane Davidson siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 7

I query your figures, Cynog. The information that we have is that in 1999-2000, the latest year for which the published figure is available, the retention rate was 85 per cent in Wales. In 1998-99, the retention rate in Wales was 82 per cent. I have always commended colleges for their retention rates. Your other point is important: ensuring adequate student support mechanisms is important with regard to widening participation. We know that colleges and higher education institutions that put more effort into student support see the results in terms of being able to support students. I can assure you that our commitment to widening participation means that we will actively work with further education colleges and universities to ensure that we have adequate support arrangements for students.

Yr wyf yn cwestiynu eich ffigurau, Cynog. Y wybodaeth sydd gennym ni yw bod y gyfradd cadw yn 1999-2000, y flwyddyn ddiweddaraf y mae ffigur ar gael ar glawr ar ei chyfer, yn 85 y cant yng Nghymru. Yn 1998-99, y gyfradd cadw yng Nghymru oedd 82 y cant. Yr wyf bob amser wedi canmol colegau am eu cyfraddau cadw. Mae eich pwynt arall yn un pwysig: mae’n bwysig sicrhau peirianweithiau digonol i gynorthwyo myfyrwyr o ran ehangu cyfranogiad. Gwyddom fod y colegau a’r sefydliadau addysg uwch sy’n gwneud mwy o ymdrech i gynorthwyo myfyrwyr yn gweld canlyniadau o ran eu gallu i gynorthwyo myfyrwyr. Gallaf eich sicrhau bod ein hymrwymiad i ehangu cyfranogiad yn golygu y byddwn yn gweithio’n egnïol gyda cholegau addysg bellach a phrifysgolion i sicrhau bod gennym drefniadau cymorth digonol i fyfyrwyr.

John Griffiths spoken in English p. 7

John Griffiths siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 7

Coleg Gwent and the University of Wales College, Newport will share the new learning campus for further and higher education in Ebbw Vale. The chief executive of Coleg Gwent and the principal of UWCN have made it clear—as part of the South Wales Argus campaign to extend the Ebbw Vale to Cardiff passenger rail link into Newport—that without a rail service to Newport, their efforts will be hindered. Do you agree that a direct passenger rail service from Ebbw Vale to Newport would aid student retention rates by making travel easier for the Ebbw Vale learning campus students pursuing their courses in Newport?

Bydd Coleg Gwent a Choleg Prifysgol Cymru, Casnewydd yn rhannu’r campws dysgu newydd i addysg bellach ac uwch yng Nglynebwy. Mae prif weithredwr Coleg Gwent a phrifathro Coleg Prifysgol Cymru, Casnewydd wedi rhoi ar ddeall—fel rhan o ymgyrch South Wales Argus i ymestyn y cyswllt rheilffordd teithwyr o Lynebwy i Gaerdydd hyd Gasnewydd—y caiff eu hymdrechion eu llesteirio os na fydd gwasanaeth rheilffordd i Gasnewydd. A ydych yn cytuno y byddai gwasanaeth rheilffordd teithwyr uniongyrchol o Lynebwy i Gasnewydd yn hybu cyfraddau cadw myfyrwyr drwy hwyluso teithio gan fyfyrwyr campws dysgu Glynebwy sy’n dilyn eu cyrsiau yng Nghasnewydd?

Dafydd Elis-Thomas The Presiding Officer spoken in English p. 7

Dafydd Elis-Thomas Y Llywydd siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 7

I am glad that you mentioned retention rates.

Yr wyf yn falch eich bod wedi sôn am gyfraddau cadw.

Jane Davidson spoken in English p. 8

Jane Davidson siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 8

In our negotiations with colleges this year, we have discussed the use of financial contingency funds. The Rees commission initially recommended that we have £500,000 in financial contingency plans. However, we considered this issue in detail, and as this deals with so many aspects, such as childcare and transport, we have ensured that the sector can benefit from £7 million in financial contingency funds this year. Transport will always be a major issue, and I am sure that students in the Ebbw Vale and Newport area will be looking forward to the establishment of the rail link.

Yn ein negodiadau â cholegau eleni, yr ydym wedi trafod defnyddio cronfeydd at reidiau ariannol. Ar y dechrau yr oedd comisiwn Rees yn awgrymu y dylem gael £500,000 mewn cynlluniau at reidiau ariannol. Fodd bynnag, gwnaethom ystyried y mater hwn yn fanwl, a chan fod hyn yn ymwneud â chynifer o agweddau, fel gofal plant a thrafnidiaeth, yr ydym wedi sicrhau bod y sector yn gallu defnyddio £7 miliwn mewn cronfeydd at reidiau ariannol eleni. Bydd trafnidiaeth yn bwnc pwysig bob amser, ac yr wyf yn sicr y bydd y myfyrwyr yn ardal Glynebwy a Chasnewydd yn edrych ymlaen at sefydlu’r cyswllt rheilffordd.

Lleihau Gwaith Papur Athrawon

Reducing Teachers’ Paperwork

C4 Ieuan Wyn Jones Arweinydd yr Wrthblaid siaradwyd yn Gymraeg t. 8

Q4 Ieuan Wyn Jones The Leader of the Opposition spoken in Welsh p. 8

Sut y mae’r Llywodraeth bartneriaeth wedi llwyddo i leihau’r baich gwaith papur ar athrawon? (OAQ18918)

How has the partnership Government succeeded in reducing the burden of paperwork for teachers? (OAQ18918)

Jane Davidson spoken in English p. 8

Jane Davidson siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 8

We are committed to putting in place measures to minimise burdens on teachers. In the next few days, I will be issuing a written statement on progress on implementation of the report on reducing bureaucratic burdens on schools, which the Assembly unanimously approved a year ago.

Yr ydym wedi ymrwymo i roi mesurau ar waith i leihau’r beichiau ar athrawon. Yn y dyddiau nesaf, byddaf yn cyhoeddi datganiad ysgrifenedig ar y cynnydd ar weithredu’r adroddiad ar leihau beichiau biwrocrataidd ar ysgolion, a gymeradwyd yn unfrydol gan y Cynulliad flwyddyn yn ôl.

Ieuan Wyn Jones siaradwyd yn Gymraeg t. 8

Ieuan Wyn Jones spoken in Welsh p. 8

Mae’r Gweinidog yn ymwybodol bod athrawon, prifathrawon ac arweinwyr undebau athrawon wedi croesawu diddymu profion cyfnod allweddol 1. Fodd bynnag, y maent yn dal i ddweud y byddai’r baich biwrocrataidd yn cael ei ysgafnhau ymhellach pe bai profion cyfnodau allweddol 2 a 3 hefyd yn cael eu diddymu. Gan fod y Gweinidog wedi cymryd y cam cyntaf drwy ddiddymu profion cyfnod allweddol 1, a yw’n fodlon cymryd yr ail gam drwy ddiddymu profion y ddau gyfnod arall?

The Minister is aware that teachers, headteachers and the leaders of teaching unions have welcomed the abolition of tests at key stage 1. However, they maintain that the bureaucratic burden would be further reduced if tests at key stage 2 and 3 were also abolished. Given that the Minister has taken the first step by abolishing tests at key stage 1, is she willing to take the second step and abolish tests at the other two key stages?

Jane Davidson spoken in English p. 8

Jane Davidson siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 8

If the conditions were the same, I would; I have said so on many occasions. We were able to abolish the key stage 1 tests because the overlay between teacher assessments and test results was so close, the tests were redundant. I checked that year on year, and the results were always the same. That is not true of key stages 2 and 3. We need a benchmark for pupils leaving primary school, and we need to consider ways of improving achievement. The Government will not compromise on achievement. Therefore, we are considering a transition strategy for improving achievement between key stages 2 and 3. If the strategy comes up with different ways of looking at testing between key stages 2 and 3, I am happy to consider them. I wish to ensure that we have a proper benchmark in the system against which we can measure performance, in order to continue with the improvement that we have seen over the last few years.

Pe byddai’r amodau yr un fath, fe fyddwn; yr wyf wedi dweud hynny lawer gwaith. Yr oeddem yn gallu diddymu profion cyfnod allweddol 1 am nad oedd eu hangen oherwydd bod cyfatebiaeth mor agos rhwng yr asesiadau athrawon a chanlyniadau’r profion. Gwiriais hynny flwyddyn ar ôl blwyddyn, ac yr oedd y canlyniadau yr un fath bob amser. Nid yw hynny’n wir am gyfnodau allweddol 2 a 3. Mae arnom angen meincnod i’r disgyblion sy’n gadael yr ysgol gynradd, a rhaid inni ystyried dulliau o wella eu cyflawniad. Ni wnaiff y Llywodraeth gyfaddawdu ar gyflawniad. Felly, yr ydym yn ystyried strategaeth trawsnewid i wella’r cyflawniad rhwng cyfnodau allweddol 2 a 3. Os bydd y strategaeth yn arwain at ddulliau gwahanol o fynd ynghylch profi rhwng cyfnodau allweddol 2 a 3, byddaf yn falch o’u hystyried. Dymunaf sicrhau bod gennym feincnod priodol yn y system y gallwn fesur perfformiad yn ei erbyn, er mwyn parhau â’r gwelliant a welsom dros y blynyddoedd diwethaf hyn.

Nick Bourne The Leader of the Welsh Conservatives spoken in English p. 9

Nick Bourne Arweinydd Ceidwadwyr Cymru siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 9

It is gratifying to know that you are trying to reduce the amount of documentation your department sends to schools. There are 138 documents currently issued by the Department for Training and Education, according to that department. I am sure that much could be dispensed with. What is an acceptable target? The trouble is that bureaucracy is a sacred cow of socialism and, not to mix my metaphors, the documents include items on using sheep eyeballs in science experiments and another on bovine eyeball dissection. How many of these documents are necessary?

Braf yw gwybod eich bod yn ceisio lleihau maint y ddogfennaeth y mae eich adran yn ei hanfon i’r ysgolion. Mae 138 o ddogfennau’n cael eu cylchredeg gan yr Adran Addysg a Hyfforddiant ar hyn o bryd, yn ôl yr adran honno. Yr wyf yn siŵr y gellid hepgor llawer ohonynt. Pa darged a fyddai’n dderbyniol? Y drafferth yw bod biwrocratiaeth yn fuwch gysegredig gan sosialaeth a chan ochel cymysgu trosiadau, mae’r dogfennau’n cynnwys eitemau ar ddefnyddio pelenni llygaid defaid mewn arbrofion gwyddonol ac un arall ar ddyrannu pelenni llygaid buchod. Faint o’r dogfennau hyn sy’n angenrheidiol?

Jane Davidson spoken in English p. 9

Jane Davidson siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 9

We established a bureaucratic burdens working group to examine this issue. It was particularly interesting that the group saw that most of the information that went to schools was needed. However, it did not always need to be provided to schools in the form that it was. One area of progress is in standardising the format of the department’s documents and providing short summaries to assist schools. Where documents relate to regulations, it is important that schools have that information. That is why it is important to keep that bureaucratic burdens working group as a reference group to ensure it keeps an overview, not only on our documents, but also those sent, for example, by local authorities, health authorities, the Qualifications, Curriculum and Assessment Authority for Wales and Estyn. We can keep an overall view of what is sent to schools and how it is used.

Gwnaethom sefydlu gweithgor beichiau biwrocrataidd i edrych ar y mater hwn. Yr oedd yn arbennig o ddiddorol bod y gweithgor wedi canfod bod angen y rhan fwyaf o’r wybodaeth a oedd wedi mynd i’r ysgolion. Fodd bynnag, nid oedd bob amser yn angenrheidiol ei darparu ar gyfer ysgolion ar y ffurf a wnaed. Un maes lle y ceir cynnydd yw safoni ffurf dogfennau’r adran a darparu crynodebau byr i helpu’r ysgolion. Os yw’r dogfennau’n ymwneud â rheoliadau, mae’n bwysig i’r ysgolion gael y wybodaeth honno. Dyna pam y mae’n bwysig cadw’r gweithgor beichiau biwrocrataidd fel grŵp cyfeirio i sicrhau ei fod yn cadw trosolwg, nid yn unig ar ein dogfennau ni, ond hefyd ar y rhai a anfonir, er enghraifft, gan yr awdurdodau lleol, yr awdurdodau iechyd, Awdurdod Cymwysterau, Cwricwlwm ac Asesu Cymru ac Estyn. Gallwn gadw golwg gyffredinol ar yr hyn a gaiff ei anfon i’r ysgolion a sut y caiff ei ddefnyddio.

Cynllun Tâl ar Sail Perfformiad

Performance-related Pay Scheme

C5 Elin Jones siaradwyd yn Gymraeg t. 10

Q5 Elin Jones spoken in Welsh p. 10

A wnaiff y Gweinidog ddatganiad ynghylch y sefyllfa ddiweddaraf o ran y cynllun cyflog i athrawon Cymru sy’n seiliedig ar reoli perfformiad? (OAQ18872)

Will the Minister make a statement on the latest situation with regard to the performance-management pay scheme for teachers in Wales? (OAQ18872)

Jane Davidson spoken in English p. 10

Jane Davidson siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 10

Teachers’ pay is not devolved, and decisions for Wales and England are the responsibility of the Department for Education and Skills. Classroom teachers’ pay scales have increased considerably in recent years with the introduction of the new performance-related upper pay spine. Members will be aware that I have announced that, in light of identified pressures, a further £18.7 million should be made available to local education authorities this year as a special grant. A special grant report will be debated in Plenary before the end of the session.

Nid yw tâl athrawon wedi ei ddatganoli, a chyfrifoldeb yr Adran Addysg a Sgiliau yw’r penderfyniadau ar gyfer Cymru a Lloegr. Mae graddfeydd tâl athrawon ystafell ddosbarth wedi cynyddu’n sylweddol yn y blynyddoedd diwethaf gyda chyflwyno’r raddfa taliadau uwch newydd sy’n seiliedig ar berfformiad. Bydd yr Aelodau’n ymwybodol fy mod wedi cyhoeddi, yng ngolwg y pwysau a ganfuwyd, y dylid darparu £18.7 miliwn ychwanegol ar gyfer awdurdodau addysg lleol eleni fel grant arbennig. Bydd dadl ar adroddiad grant arbennig yn y Cyfarfod Llawn cyn diwedd y sesiwn.

Elin Jones siaradwyd yn Gymraeg t. 10

Elin Jones spoken in Welsh p. 10

Yn nogfen bartneriaeth y Blaid Lafur a’r Democratiaid Rhyddfrydol, dywedasoch y byddai cyflogau athrawon yn cael eu gwahanu oddi wrth berfformiad disgyblion mewn arholiadau. Er hynny, mewn papur diweddar i’r Pwyllgor Addysg a Dysgu Gydol Oes, dywedasoch y gellid ystyried canlyniadau arholiadau wrth asesu cyflogau athrawon. Pam torri’r addewid honno?

In the Labour /Liberal Democrat partnership document, you said that teachers’ pay would not be linked to pupils’ performance in examinations. However, in a recent Education and Lifelong Learning Committee paper, you said that examination results could be considered as part of teachers’ pay assessments. Why break that promise?

Jane Davidson spoken in English p. 10

Jane Davidson siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 10

If you examine our performance management system you will see that it has much wider objectives in terms of pupil progress than the corresponding system in England, which is related to a large degree to examination results. Our performance management system, which was agreed by members of the Education and Lifelong Learning Committee, has pupil progress objectives that take account of pupils’ achievement issues in relation to the cohort, as well as identified results, where the teacher wants to use that. I am pleased that we achieved that much broader definition in Wales. The new performance-management regulations allow relevant information from performance reviews to be used in pay decisions. That has always been true, as teacher pay appraisal was part of the system previously. The main purpose is to have a clear system for assessing performance and identifying development needs to increase teachers’ effectiveness and to raise standards. That is tied to our continuous professional development agenda, which was also supported by the Committee.

Os edrychwch ar ein system rheoli perfformiad, fe welwch fod iddi amcanion ehangach o lawer o ran cynnydd disgyblion na’r system gyfatebol yn Lloegr, sy’n gysylltiedig i raddau helaeth â chanlyniadau arholiad. Mae ein system rheoli perfformiad ni, y cytunwyd arni gan aelodau o’r Pwyllgor Addysg a Dysgu Gydol Oes, yn un sydd ag amcanion ar gyfer cynnydd disgyblion sy’n ystyried materion cyflawniad y disgyblion mewn perthynas â’r garfan, yn ogystal â’r canlyniadau a ddynodwyd, os yw’r athro’n dymuno eu defnyddio. Yr wyf yn falch ein bod wedi sicrhau’r diffiniad llawer ehangach hwnnw yng Nghymru. Mae’r rheoliadau rheoli perfformiad newydd yn caniatáu defnyddio gwybodaeth berthnasol o adolygiadau perfformiad mewn penderfyniadau ar dâl. Felly y bu erioed, gan fod arfarnu tâl athrawon yn rhan o’r system o’r blaen. Y prif bwrpas yw cael system eglur i asesu perfformiad a chanfod anghenion datblygu er mwyn hyrwyddo effeithiolrwydd athrawon a hybu safonau. Mae hynny ynghlwm wrth ein hagenda datblygu proffesiynol parhaus, a gefnogwyd gan y Pwyllgor hefyd.

Peter Rogers spoken in English p. 11

Peter Rogers siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 11

Performance-management pay schemes are intended to recognise teachers’ good performance and expertise. Are not those teachers in rural areas living in fear of redundancies which will be necessary to meet unfair budgets which will apply to all schools because of changes in earnings?

Amcan cynlluniau tâl ar sail perfformiad yw cydnabod perfformiad da ac arbenigedd athrawon. Onid yw’r athrawon hynny mewn ardaloedd gwledig yn byw gan ofni’r diswyddiadau a fydd yn angenrheidiol i fodloni’r cyllidebau annheg a weithredir ym mhob ysgol oherwydd y newidiadau mewn enillion?

Jane Davidson spoken in English p. 11

Jane Davidson siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 11

If you examine classroom teachers’ pay scales, you will find the answer, Peter. Classroom teachers can now earn up to £32,250, which is the top of the upper pay spine. We made the money available in Wales to enable 100 per cent of teachers to move onto the upper pay spine, subject to fulfilling the DfES guideline requirements. Teachers’ pay has been substantially increased in recent years. The starting salary is also higher; it is a minimum of £17,628. When you compare teachers’ pay to the average pay in Wales, it is a relatively well-paid profession.

Os edrychwch ar gyfraddau tâl athrawon ystafell ddosbarth, fe gewch yr ateb, Peter. Gall athrawon ystafell ddosbarth ennill hyd at £32,250 yn awr, sef pen uchaf y raddfa tâl uwch. Gwnaethom ddarparu’r arian yng Nghymru fel y gallai’r holl athrawon symud i’r raddfa tâl uwch, os gallent gyflawni gofynion canllawiau’r Adran Addysg a Sgiliau. Mae tâl athrawon wedi ei gynyddu’n sylweddol yn y blynyddoedd diwethaf hyn. Mae’r cyflog dechreuol yn uwch hefyd; mae’n £17,628 o leiaf. Os cymharwch dâl athrawon â’r tâl cyfartalog yng Nghymru, gwelir ei fod yn broffesiwn sy’n cael ei dalu’n gymharol dda.

Gwariant ar Adeiladau Ysgolion

Expenditure on School Buildings

Q6 Peter Black spoken in English p. 11

C6 Peter Black siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 11

How is the Minister monitoring the expenditure of capital moneys to improve school buildings? (OAQ18896) [R]

Sut y mae’r Gweinidog yn monitro’r arian cyfalaf sy’n cael ei wario ar wella adeiladau ysgolion? (OAQ18896) [R]

Jane Davidson spoken in English p. 12

Jane Davidson siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 12

Local authorities are accountable to the Assembly for expenditure of capital grants for schools. This is monitored through grant claims, meetings and other contacts between Assembly Government officials and individual authorities.

Mae’r awdurdodau lleol yn atebol i’r Cynulliad am wario grantiau cyfalaf ar gyfer ysgolion. Caiff hynny ei fonitro drwy hawliadau grant, cyfarfodydd a chysylltiadau eraill rhwng swyddogion Llywodraeth y Cynulliad a’r awdurdodau unigol.

Peter Black spoken in English p. 12

Peter Black siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 12

Do you share my concern at the slowness in distributing the £300 million allocated to schools over three years for work on their buildings? Will you carry out a review of how that money is being spent?

A ydych yn rhannu fy mhryder ynghylch yr arafwch wrth ddosbarthu’r £300 miliwn a ddyrannwyd i ysgolion dros dair blynedd ar gyfer gwaith ar eu hadeiladau? A wnewch gynnal adolygiad o’r modd y caiff yr arian hwnnw ei wario?

Jane Davidson spoken in English p. 12

Jane Davidson siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 12

That is under constant review. The Education and Lifelong Learning Committee discussed concerns about the slowness of spend a year ago. That slowness was largely due to the fact that we had made an additional £28 million available close to the end of the financial year, so it was difficult for local authorities to get that money out of the door. The authorities are now geared up to ensure higher levels of annual spend, in line with the increased resources, and we are confident that the money is getting out of the door. I am invited to open new buildings and new parts of buildings much more often than previously. I was told while visiting one authority recently that it had not had a new school in 20 years. The money is definitely reaching the schools. We will continue to be vigilant, because we have made a commitment that all schools will be fit for purpose by 2010. Almost all authorities now have up-to-date condition surveys. We will use those condition surveys and the asset management plans as an evidence base to review the level of investment required to meet the 2010 target.

Mae’n cael ei adolygu’n barhaus. Trafododd y Pwyllgor Addysg a Dysgu Gydol Oes y pryderon ynghylch yr arafwch wrth wario flwyddyn yn ôl. Yr oedd yr arafwch hwnnw’n ganlyniad gan mwyaf i’r ffaith ein bod wedi darparu £28 miliwn ychwanegol yn agos at ddiwedd y flwyddyn ariannol, felly yr oedd yn anodd i’r awdurdodau lleol roi’r arian ar waith. Mae’r awdurdodau wedi ymaddasu bellach i sicrhau lefelau uwch o wariant blynyddol, yn unol â’r cynnydd yn yr adnoddau, ac yr ydym yn ffyddiog bod yr arian yn cael ei roi ar waith. Caf fy ngwahodd i agor adeiladau newydd a rhannau newydd o adeiladau’n amlach o lawer nag o’r blaen. Dywedwyd wrthyf pan oeddwn yn ymweld ag un awdurdod yn ddiweddar nad oedd wedi cael ysgol newydd ers 20 mlynedd. Mae’r arian yn cyrraedd yr ysgolion, yn sicr. Byddwn yn dal i fod yn wyliadwrus, gan ein bod wedi ymrwymo y bydd pob ysgol yn addas i’w diben erbyn 2010. Mae gan bron pob un o’r awdurdodau arolygon cyflwr cyfoes. Gwnawn ddefnyddio’r arolygon cyflwr hynny a’r cynlluniau rheoli asedau fel sylfaen dystiolaeth i adolygu’r lefel o fuddsoddiad sydd ei angen i gyrraedd targed 2010.

William Graham spoken in English p. 12

William Graham siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 12

How was the planned closure of the infant school at St Mary Street, Bedwas and the accommodation of those pupils in portakabins to be erected in the school yard of the junior school at Church Street, Bedwas viewed in your monitoring of the expenditure of capital moneys to improve school buildings?

Beth oedd eich barn am y bwriad i gau’r ysgol fabanod yn St Mary Street, Bedwas a rhoi’r disgyblion hynny mewn portakabins sydd i’w codi ar fuarth yr ysgol iau yn Church Street, Bedwas pan oeddech yn monitro’r arian cyfalaf sy’n cael ei wario i wella adeiladau ysgolion?

Jane Davidson spoken in English p. 13

Jane Davidson siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 13

I do not discuss individual cases while speaking in the Chamber. Please write to me with the details of this case and I will consider it. I am happy to test whether our commitment to improving the quality of school buildings has been applied in any particular case.

Nid wyf yn trafod achosion unigol wrth siarad yn y Siambr. Byddwch cystal ag ysgrifennu ataf gan roi manylion am yr achos hwn a gwnaf ei ystyried. Yr wyf yn falch o roi prawf i ganfod a yw ein hymrwymiad i wella ansawdd adeiladau ysgolion wedi’i gymhwyso mewn achos penodol.

Cwestiynau i’r Gweinidog dros Iechyd a Gwasanaethau Cymdeithasol

Questions to the Minister for Health and Social Services

Sgrinio Iechyd Rhywiol

Sexual Health Screening

Q1 Janice Gregory spoken in English p. 13

C1 Janice Gregory siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 13

Will the Minister make a statement on the procedures for sexual health screening in Wales? (OAQ18894)

A wnaiff y Gweinidog ddatganiad ar weithdrefnau sgrinio ar gyfer iechyd rhywiol yng Nghymru? (OAQ18894)

Jane Hutt The Minister for Health and Social Services spoken in English p. 13

Jane Hutt Y Gweinidog dros Iechyd a Gwasanaethau Cymdeithasol siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 13

A national programme of HIV antenatal screening is being rolled out across Wales and work has begun to integrate HIV screening within an all-Wales antenatal screening project. Officials from the office of the Chief Medical Officer for Wales are also currently reviewing policy options in relation to chlamydia testing.

Mae rhaglen genedlaethol o sgrinio cynenedigol am HIV yn cael ei hymestyn ledled Cymru a dechreuwyd ar y gwaith o integreiddio sgrinio am HIV o fewn prosiect sgrinio cynenedigol i Gymru gyfan. Hefyd, mae swyddogion o swyddfa Prif Swyddog Meddygol Cymru’n adolygu’r dewisiadau polisi o ran profi am glamydia.

Janice Gregory spoken in English p. 13

Janice Gregory siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 13

I am pleased that you mentioned chlamydia. You are aware of my concern about this terrible, silent disease that causes such distress to women and can lead to sterility. I understand that it is possible to take a simple test for chlamydia during a cervical smear test. Will you consider establishing this as a standard procedure?

Yr wyf yn falch eich bod wedi sôn am glamydia. Fe wyddoch am fy mhryder ynghylch y clefyd disylw, ofnadwy hwn sy’n peri’r fath ofid i fenywod ac sy’n gallu arwain at anffrwythlondeb. Deallaf fod modd cymryd prawf syml am glamydia yn ystod prawf rhwbiad o’r groth. A wnewch ystyried sefydlu hynny’n weithdrefn safonol?

Jane Hutt spoken in English p. 13

Jane Hutt siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 13

I have asked officials from the office of the Chief Medical Officer for Wales to review the available options relating to opportunistic chlamydia testing. This could be done with the cervical smear or in a genito-urinary clinic. This is being considered and pilot schemes are underway in England. We will then consider the budget implications and whether it can be instituted.

Yr wyf wedi gofyn i swyddogion o swyddfa Prif Swyddog Meddygol Cymru adolygu’r dewisiadau sydd ar gael o ran profi am glamydia pan geir cyfle. Gellid gwneud hynny gyda phrawf ceg y groth neu mewn clinig cenhedlol-droethol. Mae hyn dan ystyriaeth ac mae cynlluniau peilot yn mynd rhagddynt yn Lloegr. Gwnawn ystyried y goblygiadau i’r gyllideb wedyn ac a ellir ei gychwyn.

Janet Davies spoken in English p. 13

Janet Davies siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 13

On the comprehensive availability of sexual health screening, you will be aware that poverty and deprivation are connected to poor communications in terms of roads and so on. Will you ensure that sexual health screening becomes available in all areas, particularly in some valleys where the roads are poor, such as the Ogmore and Garw valleys?

Ynghylch y gallu i gael sgrinio iechyd rhywiol yn gyffredinol, byddwch yn ymwybodol bod tlodi ac amddifadedd yn gysylltiedig â chysylltiadau gwael o ran ffyrdd ac yn y blaen. A wnewch sicrhau y bydd sgrinio iechyd rhywiol ar gael ym mhob ardal, yn enwedig mewn rhai o’r Cymoedd lle mae’r ffyrdd yn wael, megis cymoedd Ogwr a Garw?

Jane Hutt spoken in English p. 14

Jane Hutt siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 14

We need an all-Wales sexual health screening programme to cover all elements of the sexual health strategy. We are also investing in an all-Wales antenatal screening project. We must consider issues relating to deprivation in communities across Wales. That deprivation can be highlighted by using the index of multiple deprivation. We must have a national programme for the sexual health strategy and service delivery. We must also target the areas of greatest need in terms of deprivation and opportunity.

Mae arnom angen rhaglen sgrinio iechyd rhywiol i Gymru gyfan fydd yn cynnwys holl elfennau’r strategaeth iechyd rhywiol. Yr ydym hefyd yn buddsoddi mewn prosiect sgrinio cynenedigol i Gymru gyfan. Rhaid inni ystyried materion sy’n ymwneud ag amddifadedd mewn cymunedau ledled Cymru. Gellir tynnu sylw at yr amddifadedd hwnnw drwy ddefnyddio’r mynegai amddifadedd lluosog. Rhaid inni gael rhaglen genedlaethol i’r strategaeth iechyd rhywiol ac i ddarparu gwasanaethau. Rhaid inni hefyd dargedu’r ardaloedd sy’n fwyaf anghenus o ran amddifadedd a chyfleoedd.

William Graham spoken in English p. 14

William Graham siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 14

Will you comment on the additional burden placed upon our sexual health promotion and treatment service in Wales by the availability of the morning-after pill and the abortion pill?

A wnewch sylw am y baich ychwanegol a roddwyd ar ein gwasanaeth trin a hybu iechyd rhywiol yng Nghymru am fod y bilsen bore trannoeth a’r bilsen erthylu ar gael?

Jane Hutt spoken in English p. 14

Jane Hutt siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 14

The English sexual health strategy has highlighted evidence that the earlier an abortion is performed during pregnancy, the lower the risk of complications. Therefore, it is considering whether to use the medical abortion pill for medical abortions, and is seeking to test that in England. There are no plans for a similar study in Wales, but we will monitor the developments in England.

Mae strategaeth iechyd rhywiol Lloegr wedi tynnu sylw at dystiolaeth sy’n dangos mai po gynharaf y cyflawnir erthyliad yn ystod beichiogrwydd, lleiaf fydd y perygl o gymhlethdodau. Gan hynny, mae’n ystyried a fydd yn defnyddio’r bilsen erthylu feddygol ar gyfer erthyliadau meddygol, ac mae’n bwriadu rhoi prawf ar hynny yn Lloegr. Nid oes bwriad i gynnal astudiaeth debyg yng Nghymru, ond byddwn yn cadw golwg ar y datblygiadau yn Lloegr.

Talu am Bresgripsiynau

Prescription Charges

Q2 Lorraine Barrett spoken in English p. 14

C2 Lorraine Barrett siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 14

Does the Minister have plans to introduce exemptions from prescription charges for transplant patients? (OAQ18887)

A oes gan y Gweinidog gynlluniau i eithrio cleifion sydd wedi cael trawsblaniad rhag talu am bresgripsiynau? (OAQ18887)

Jane Hutt spoken in English p. 14

Jane Hutt siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 14

I have no immediate plans to do so, but I understand the concerns that many Assembly Members have expressed on behalf of constituents who need prescribed drugs to treat a wide range of long-term medical conditions. Many patients who suffer from these conditions are already exempt, because of their age or because they or their partners receive income support, income-based jobseekers’ allowance or tax credits, or are eligible under the NHS low income scheme.

Nid oes gennyf fwriad i wneud hynny ar hyn o bryd, ond deallaf y pryderon y mae llawer o Aelodau’r Cynulliad wedi’u mynegi ar ran etholwyr y mae arnynt angen cyffuriau ar bresgripsiwn i drin amrywiaeth eang o anhwylderau meddygol tymor hir. Mae llawer o’r cleifion sy’n dioddef gan yr anhwylderau hyn wedi’u heithrio eisoes, oherwydd eu hoed neu am eu bod hwy neu’u cymar yn derbyn cymhorthdal incwm, lwfans ceisio gwaith sy’n seiliedig ar incwm neu gredydau treth, neu am eu bod yn gymwys dan gynllun incwm isel y GIG.

Lorraine Barrett spoken in English p. 15

Lorraine Barrett siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 15

One of my constituents has had a heart transplant and must take 14 items of medication each month. His wife has taken on a low-income job, which pays enough to take them just over the low-income threshold, which means that he must often decide which medication to buy each month. Will you revisit this matter?

Mae un o’m hetholwyr wedi cael trawsblaniad calon a rhaid iddo gymryd 14 eitem o feddyginiaeth bob mis. Mae ei wraig wedi cymryd swydd ar incwm isel, sy’n talu digon i fynd â hwy ychydig dros y trothwy incwm isel, sy’n golygu’n aml fod yn rhaid iddo benderfynu pa feddyginiaeth i’w phrynu bob mis. A wnewch ailystyried y mater hwn?

Jane Hutt spoken in English p. 15

Jane Hutt siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 15

I will consider the low income scheme safety net, as we may be able to target that in Wales. The all-Wales medicines strategy group will also be interested in this issue.

Gwnaf ystyried rhwyd achub y cynllun incwm isel, gan ei bod yn bosibl y byddwn yn gallu targedu hynny yng Nghymru. Bydd grŵp strategaeth meddyginiaethau Cymru gyfan yn ymddiddori yn y mater hwn hefyd.

Geraint Davies spoken in English p. 15

Geraint Davies siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 15

I declare an interest as a pharmacist. In the interests of extending access to healthcare, will the Minister explain how she reconciles the principle of having a health service that is free at the point of use with a £6 prescription charge? Does she have any plans to abolish this tax on illness?

Datganaf fuddiant fel fferyllydd. Er mwyn ymestyn y mynediad i ofal iechyd, a wnaiff y Gweinidog egluro sut y mae’n cysoni’r egwyddor o gael gwasanaeth iechyd sydd am ddim wrth y pwynt defnyddio a thâl presgripsiwn o £6? A oes ganddi unrhyw gynlluniau i ddiddymu’r dreth hon ar salwch?

Jane Hutt spoken in English p. 15

Jane Hutt siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 15

We have frozen prescription charges at £6 for the second year running, which has been widely welcomed by the public. Wales is alone in offering free prescriptions for 16 to 25-year-olds, who usually have difficulty in affording their prescriptions. We are making great strides in relieving the burdens of any charges on people in Wales, and I would have thought that your party would welcome the £6 freeze in prescription charges.

Yr ydym wedi rhewi taliadau presgripsiwn ar £6 am yr ail flwyddyn yn olynol, ac mae hynny wedi’i groesawu gan y cyhoedd yn gyffredinol. Dim ond Cymru sy’n cynnig presgripsiynau am ddim i rai 16 i 25 mlwydd oed, sydd fel arfer yn ei chael yn anodd fforddio eu presgripsiynau. Yr ydym yn cymryd camau bras ymlaen o ran ysgafnhau beichiau unrhyw daliadau ar bobl yng Nghymru, a buaswn wedi meddwl y byddai’ch plaid chi wedi croesawu rhewi taliadau presgripsiwn ar £6.

David Melding spoken in English p. 15

David Melding siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 15

The season ticket schemes—if I can call them that—which exist for people who have to pay for their prescriptions, are important. Should we not review the cap on the amount to be paid by people who must pay for their prescriptions? If they have medical conditions that require multiple medications, the bill can be high. Many people who must pay for their prescriptions on relatively modest incomes may find a capital outlay once a year—or even once every three months—difficult. Should we not consider these issues?

Mae’r cynlluniau tocyn tymor—os caf eu galw’n hynny—ar gyfer y rhai sy’n gorfod talu am eu presgripsiynau, yn bwysig. Oni ddylem adolygu’r terfyn uchaf ar y swm sydd i’w dalu gan bobl sy’n gorfod talu am eu presgripsiynau? Os oes ganddynt gyflyrau meddygol sy’n gofyn meddyginiaethau lluosog, fe all y bil fod yn fawr iawn. Fe ddichon fod llawer o bobl sy’n gorfod talu am eu presgripsiynau a chanddynt incwm cymharol fach yn ei chael yn anodd talu unwaith y flwyddyn—neu hyd yn oed unwaith bob tri mis. Oni ddylem ystyried y materion hyn?

Jane Hutt spoken in English p. 16

Jane Hutt siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 16

Certainly, David. Those are constructive suggestions. As well as improving the low income safety net scheme, we are considering the passporting arrangements, and changes to the pre-payment certificate arrangements, to make them easier to buy and more accessible. We are taking those constructive points on board.

Yn sicr, David. Mae’r rheini’n awgrymiadau adeiladol. Yn ogystal â gwella’r cynllun rhwyd achub ar gyfer incwm isel, yr ydym yn ystyried y trefniadau prawf adnabod, a’r newidiadau i drefniadau’r dystysgrif talu ymlaen llaw, i’w gwneud yn haws eu prynu a’u cael. Yr ydym yn ystyried y pwyntiau adeiladol hynny.

Ymgynghorwyr Clefyd Siwgr

Consultant Diabetologists

Q3 Mick Bates spoken in English p. 16

C3 Mick Bates siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 16

What plans does the Minister have to ensure that there will be a sufficient number of consultant diabetologists in Wales to ensure full implementation of the diabetes national service framework over the next 10 years? (OAQ18953)

Pa gynlluniau sydd gan y Gweinidog i sicrhau y bydd nifer digonol o ymgynghorwyr clefyd siwgr yng Nghymru er mwyn gallu rhoi fframwaith gwasanaeth cenedlaethol clefyd siwgr ar waith yn llawn dros y 10 mlynedd nesaf? (OAQ18953)

Jane Hutt spoken in English p. 16

Jane Hutt siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 16

Following my announcement of the 2010 staffing plans, we will produce realistic, planned numbers for each trust in all consultant specialities, including diabetes and endocrinology. We are training more doctors and grades leading to consultant positions, and are particularly addressing the shortages in specialist areas. A sub-group of the diabetes national service framework implementation group is examining education and training needs.

Ar ôl fy nghyhoeddiad am y cynlluniau staffio ar gyfer 2010, byddwn yn cyflwyno niferoedd cynlluniedig, realistig i bob ymddiriedolaeth ym mhob un o arbenigaethau’r ymgynghorwyr, gan gynnwys clefyd siwgr ac endocrinoleg. Yr ydym yn hyfforddi rhagor o feddygon a rhagor ar raddfeydd a fydd yn arwain at swyddi ymgynghorol, ac yr ydym yn ymdrin yn benodol â phrinder mewn meysydd arbenigol. Mae is-grŵp o grŵp gweithredu fframwaith gwasanaeth cenedlaethol clefyd siwgr yn archwilio’r anghenion addysg a hyfforddiant.

Mick Bates spoken in English p. 16

Mick Bates siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 16

There are currently four unfilled consultant diabetologist posts in Wales. Will you take steps to ensure that sufficient postgraduate medical training places in diabetes and endocrinology are available in Wales?

Mae pedair swydd ymgynghorydd clefyd siwgr yn wag ar hyn o bryd yng Nghymru. A wnewch gymryd camau i sicrhau bod digon o leoedd hyfforddi meddygol i raddedigion mewn endocrinoleg a chlefyd siwgr yng Nghymru?

Jane Hutt spoken in English p. 17

Jane Hutt siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 17

That is why it is important that we train more medical students We currently have 14 specialist registrar posts in diabetes and endocrinology. Arrangements are being made for a further post this year, so that, as they develop, we have more people in line for consultant posts. Also, the specialist registrar sub-group of the medical workforce development group is examining how to plan new posts for 2003-04. However, this is about a recruitment and retention strategy to encourage consultants into Wales as we train these new students and support our specialist registrars.

Dyna pam y mae’n bwysig inni hyfforddi rhagor o fyfyrwyr meddygol. Ar hyn o bryd mae gennym 14 swydd cofrestrydd arbenigol mewn endocrinoleg a chlefyd siwgr. Gwneir trefniadau ar gyfer swydd ychwanegol eleni fel y bydd gennym ragor o bobl, wrth iddynt ddatblygu, a allai lenwi swyddi ymgynghorydd. Hefyd, mae is-grŵp cofrestryddion arbenigol y grŵp datblygu gweithlu meddygol yn ystyried sut i gynllunio swyddi newydd ar gyfer 2003-04. Fodd bynnag, mae hyn yn ymwneud â strategaeth recriwtio a chadw i ddenu ymgynghorwyr i Gymru wrth inni hyfforddi’r myfyrwyr newydd hyn a chynorthwyo ein cofrestryddion arbenigol.

David Davies spoken in English p. 17

David Davies siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 17

Do you agree that we desperately need uniformity of service throughout Wales? The Royal Gwent Hospital in Newport has an outstanding diabetes centre, but that level of service should be available to everyone.

A ydych yn cytuno bod arnom daer angen unfurfrwydd yn y gwasanaeth ledled Cymru? Mae gan Ysbyty Brenhinol Gwent yng Nghasnewydd ganolfan clefyd siwgr ragorol, ond dylai gwasanaeth cystal â hwnnw fod ar gael i bawb.

Jane Hutt spoken in English p. 17

Jane Hutt siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 17

Other parts of Wales have outstanding services too, David. Of course, the service at the Royal Gwent Hospital—which I have visited—is a model for us as we develop our national service framework. In April, I published the 12 standards that will guide us in developing our national service framework. I also invested £1 million for the implementation of the national service framework; an implementation group is working hard to ensure that the framework is in place by next spring. We will then have a national service for diabetes like that in the Royal Gwent Hospital and other parts of Wales.

Mae gan rannau eraill o Gymru wasanaethau rhagorol hefyd, David. Wrth gwrs, mae’r gwasanaeth yn Ysbyty Brenhinol Gwent—yr wyf wedi ymweld ag ef—yn batrwm i ni wrth inni ddatblygu ein fframwaith gwasanaeth cenedlaethol. Yn Ebrill, cyhoeddais y 12 safon a fydd yn ein harwain wrth inni ddatblygu ein fframwaith gwasanaeth cenedlaethol. Yr wyf hefyd wedi buddsoddi £1 filiwn i weithredu’r fframwaith gwasanaeth cenedlaethol; mae grŵp gweithredu’n gweithio’n galed i sicrhau y bydd y fframwaith ar waith erbyn y gwanwyn nesaf. Wedyn bydd gennym wasanaeth cenedlaethol i glefyd siwgr fel yr un yn Ysbyty Brenhinol Gwent a rhannau eraill o Gymru.

Ymwybyddiaeth o Glefyd Siwgr

Awareness of Diabetes

C4 Elin Jones siaradwyd yn Gymraeg t. 17

Q4 Elin Jones spoken in Welsh p. 17

Sut y mae polisïau presennol y Gweinidog yn codi ymwybyddiaeth o glefyd siwgr ymysg poblogaeth Cymru? (OAQ18952)

How do the Minister’s current policies raise awareness of diabetes among the population of Wales? (OAQ18952)

Jane Hutt spoken in English p. 18

Jane Hutt siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 18

The Welsh Assembly Government recently published the national service framework standards for diabetes in Wales. The framework will help achieve better standards of care and support for people with diabetes and reduce the present inequalities in diabetes care. I have established a diabetes implementation group drawn from all interest groups, including the voluntary sector and lay representatives, to consider the implications for services in Wales and to advise on the delivery strategy.

Yn ddiweddar, cyhoeddodd Llywodraeth Cynulliad Cymru safonau’r fframwaith gwasanaeth cenedlaethol i glefyd siwgr yng Nghymru. Bydd y fframwaith o gymorth i sicrhau gwell safonau gofal a chymorth i rai sydd â chlefyd siwgr ac yn lleihau’r anghydraddoldebau presennol mewn gofal clefyd siwgr. Yr wyf wedi sefydlu grŵp gweithredu clefyd siwgr sy’n cynnwys rhai o’r holl grwpiau buddiant, gan gynnwys y sector gwirfoddol a chynrychiolwyr lleyg, i ystyried y goblygiadau i wasanaethau yng Nghymru ac i gynghori ynghylch y strategaeth darparu.

Elin Jones siaradwyd yn Gymraeg t. 18

Elin Jones spoken in Welsh p. 18

Manteisiaf ar y cyfle i gywiro fersiwn Saesneg yr agenda heddiw. Yr Aelod dros Geredigion ydwyf i, nid ‘Cardigan’.

I take this opportunity to correct the English version of today’s agenda. I am the Member for Ceredigion, not ‘Cardigan’.

Dafydd Elis-Thomas Y Llywydd siaradwyd yn Gymraeg t. 18

Dafydd Elis-Thomas The Presiding Officer spoken in Welsh p. 18

Ymddiheuraf am y gwall ac fe warantaf na fydd yn digwydd eto. Yr oeddwn yn meddwl mai dilledyn oedd ‘cardigan’.

I apologise for the error and guarantee that it will not happen again. I thought that a ‘cardigan’ was an item of clothing.

Elin Jones siaradwyd yn Gymraeg t. 18

Elin Jones spoken in Welsh p. 18

Yr wyf yn cynrychioli pobl ‘Cardigan’, ond yr wyf hefyd yn Aelod dros weddill Ceredigion.

I do represent the people of Cardigan, but I am also the Member for the rest of Ceredigion.

Nid ydych hyd yn hyn, Weinidog, wedi darparu arian digonol ar gyfer gweithredu’r fframwaith clefyd siwgr newydd hwn. A ydych yn bwriadu gwneud cyhoeddiad yn fuan i ddarparu arian digonol i wireddu gofynion y fframwaith pwysig hwn?

To date, Minister, you have not provided sufficient funding to implement this new diabetes framework. Do you have any imminent plans to announce sufficient funding to put this important framework in place?

Jane Hutt spoken in English p. 18

Jane Hutt siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 18

I recognise that you are the Member for Ceredigion. In my reply to the previous question, I said that we are investing £1 million in the implementation of the national service framework over a three-year period. That is also helping us to employ an officer from Diabetes UK Cymru to help with the implementation. I have also published the standards. Later this month, I will announce a £2 million investment in the all-Wales diabetic retinopathy screening programme, which is a key part of improving services for people with diabetes. That £2 million investment in the development of the scheme will put us ahead of the game.

Gwelaf mai’r Aelod dros Geredigion ydych. Yn fy ateb i’r cwestiwn blaenorol, dywedais ein bod yn buddsoddi £1 filiwn i weithredu’r fframwaith gwasanaeth cenedlaethol dros gyfnod o dair blynedd. Mae hynny’n ein helpu hefyd i gyflogi swyddog o Diabetes UK Cymru i’n helpu i’w weithredu. Yr wyf hefyd wedi cyhoeddi’r safonau. Yn ddiweddarach y mis hwn, byddaf yn cyhoeddi buddsoddiad o £2 filiwn yn y rhaglen sgrinio retinopathi diabetig i Gymru gyfan, sy’n rhan allweddol o’r gwaith o wella’r gwasanaethau i rai sydd â chlefyd siwgr. Bydd y buddsoddiad hwnnw o £2 filiwn i ddatblygu’r cynllun yn ein rhoi ar y blaen.

Alun Cairns spoken in English p. 19

Alun Cairns siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 19

It is a recognised fact that half the people suffering from diabetes do not know it. It is useful for the Minister to talk about screening, but how will she motivate those who suffer from diabetes to undergo that screening?

Mae’n ffaith gydnabyddedig nad yw hanner y rhai sy’n dioddef gan glefyd siwgr yn gwybod hynny. Mae’n fuddiol i’r Gweinidog sôn am sgrinio, ond sut y gwnaiff ysgogi’r rhai sy’n dioddef gan glefyd siwgr i gael y sgrinio hwnnw?

Jane Hutt spoken in English p. 19

Jane Hutt siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 19

That is a good point strangely made, Alun. It is estimated that 50,000 people in Wales are unaware of the fact that they have diabetes. For example, the multicultural diabetes screening and health promotion project, which recently produced a report on Cardiff, made an impact in that it detected levels of diabetes in ethnic minority communities in Wales. We must ensure that health promotion screening programmes include not only the diabetic retinopathy screening arrangements, but also issues relating to diet and lifestyle, in a similar way to how we detect heart disease and other diseases. We must ensure that screening and access for people who may be at risk are at the top of the agenda.

Mae hwnnw’n bwynt da a wnaed mewn modd rhyfedd, Alun. Amcangyfrifir bod 50,000 o bobl yng Nghymru nad ydynt yn ymwybodol o’r ffaith fod ganddynt glefyd siwgr. Er enghraifft, cafwyd effaith o’r prosiect sgrinio a hybu iechyd clefyd siwgr amlddiwylliannol, a luniodd adroddiad ar Gaerdydd yn ddiweddar, am ei fod wedi canfod lefelau o glefyd siwgwr mewn cymunedau lleiafrifol ethnig yng Nghymru. Rhaid inni sicrhau bod y rhaglenni sgrinio a hybu iechyd yn cynnwys nid yn unig y trefniadau sgrinio retinopathi diabetig, ond hefyd faterion sy’n ymwneud â deiet a ffordd o fyw, yn debyg i’r modd yr ydym yn darganfod clefyd y galon a chlefydau eraill. Rhaid inni sicrhau bod sgrinio a mynediad i’r rhai a allai fod mewn perygl wedi’u gosod ar ben y agenda.

Anghydraddoldebau Iechyd

Health Inequalities

Q5 Peter Black spoken in English p. 19

C5 Peter Black siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 19

What is the Minister’s strategy to tackle health inequalities in Wales? (OAQ18888)

Beth yw strategaeth y Gweinidog o ran mynd i’r afael ag anghydraddoldebau iechyd yng Nghymru? (OAQ18888)

Jane Hutt spoken in English p. 19

Jane Hutt siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 19

The Assembly has adopted the recommendations of the Townsend report, ‘Targeting Poor Health: Next Steps’. This includes action to tackle inequalities in access to health care services—this is the role of the NHS. It also includes action to tackle the underlying socioeconomic determinants of poor health—this is the role of all Assembly Government policy areas, working in partnership with local government and other organisations.

Mae’r Cynulliad wedi mabwysiadu’r argymhellion yn adroddiad Townsend, ‘Targedu Afiechyd: Y Camau Nesaf’. Mae hynny’n cynnwys camau i fynd i’r afael ag anghydraddoldebau mewn mynediad i wasanaethau gofal iechyd—dyma rôl y GIG. Mae hefyd yn cynnwys camau i fynd i’r afael â phenderfynyddion cymdeithasol-economaidd sylfaenol iechyd gwael—dyma rôl holl feysydd polisi Llywodraeth y Cynulliad, gan weithio mewn partneriaeth â llywodraeth leol a chyrff eraill.

Peter Black spoken in English p. 19

Peter Black siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 19

In terms of securing equal treatment for all parts of Wales, do you share my concern that the latest consultation paper from the Specialised Health Services Commission for Wales on paediatric neurosurgery fails to refer to the recommendation of the Society of British Neurological Surgeons that children with neurological emergencies should be able to access emergency help within two hours? Do you agree that the speed with which children can be treated for head injuries should be a major factor in determining the safety of any future paediatric neurological service in Wales?

O ran sicrhau triniaeth gyfartal i bob rhan o Gymru, a ydych yn rhannu fy mhryder nad oes cyfeiriad yn y papur ymgynghorol diweddaraf oddi wrth Gomisiwn Gwasanaethau Iechyd Arbenigol Cymru ar lawfeddygaeth niwrolegol bediatrig at argymhelliad Cymdeithas Llawfeddygon Niwrolegol Prydain y dylai plant mewn argyfwng niwrolegol allu cael cymorth brys cyn pen dwy awr? A ydych yn cytuno y dylai’r cyflymder wrth drin plant sydd ag anafiadau i’w pen fod yn ffactor o bwys wrth bennu diogelwch unrhyw wasanaeth niwrolegol pediatrig yng Nghymru yn y dyfodol?

Jane Hutt spoken in English p. 20

Jane Hutt siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 20

In tackling health inequalities we are considering access to, and the quality of, services. We must also consider these issues in relation to all clinical needs, from primary care through to the specialist tertiary services that you mention, in the ongoing consultation over the next three months on specialist health services for children in Wales. I am sure that you, and many others, will contribute to that consultation.

Wrth fynd i’r afael ag anghydraddoldebau iechyd, yr ydym yn ystyried ansawdd gwasanaethau a mynediad atynt. Rhaid inni ystyried y materion hyn hefyd mewn cysylltiad â’r holl anghenion clinigol, o ofal sylfaenol hyd at y gwasanaethau trydyddol arbenigol yr ydych yn sôn amdanynt, yn yr ymgynghoriad cyfredol dros y tri mis nesaf ar wasanaethau iechyd arbenigol i blant yng Nghymru. Yr wyf yn siŵr y byddwch chi, a llawer un arall, yn cyfrannu at yr ymgynghoriad hwnnw.

David Lloyd spoken in English p. 20

David Lloyd siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 20

I declare my usual interest as a general practitioner. The Townsend report states that health inequalities in Wales are worsening. Health inequalities should be reflected in social services spending as well as in health spending. Will social care, therefore, be given new money as a result of the comprehensive spending review uplift?

Datganaf fy muddiant arferol fel meddyg teulu. Dywed adroddiad Townsend fod yr anghydraddoldebau iechyd yng Nghymru’n gwaethygu. Dylid adlewyrchu anghydraddoldebau yn y gwariant ar wasanaethau cymdeithasol yn ogystal â’r gwariant ar iechyd. Gan hynny, a roddir arian newydd at ofal cymdeithasol o ganlyniad i gynnydd yr adolygiad cynhwysfawr o wariant?

Jane Hutt spoken in English p. 20

Jane Hutt siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 20

Health inequalities relate to housing, the environment and education, as well as to health issues. On social services spending—which is part of our budget planning round discussions—we have already invested an extra £17 million this year to deal with delayed transfers of care, in addition to the revenue support grant and the grant that is already going to social services, to deal with the pressures of caring for the elderly in Wales.

Mae anghydraddoldebau iechyd yn ymwneud â thai, yr amgylchedd ac addysg, yn ogystal â materion iechyd. Ynghylch y gwario ar wasanaethau cymdeithasol—sy’n rhan o’n trafodaethau ar gylch cynllunio’r gyllideb—yr ydym eisoes wedi buddsoddi £17 miliwn yn ychwanegol eleni i ddelio ag oedi wrth drosglwyddo gofal, yn ogystal â’r grant cynnal refeniw a’r grant sydd eisoes yn mynd at wasanaethau cymdeithasol, i ddelio â’r pwysau o ofalu am yr henoed yng Nghymru.

Christine Gwyther spoken in English p. 20

Christine Gwyther siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 20

Ambulance waiting times, especially in rural areas, demonstrate health inequalities at their cruelest. Will you join me in welcoming the fact that Whitland ambulance station is to provide 24-hour cover? You have already provided the funding, and Dyfed Powys Health Authority has, finally, approved the strategy. This is geographically vital, as the station serves not only Whitland but also the rural hinterland and much of west Wales. Will you pledge your ongoing support for its retention?

Mae’r amseroedd aros am ambiwlans, yn enwedig mewn ardaloedd gwledig, yn dangos anghydraddoldebau iechyd ar eu creulonaf. A wnewch ymuno â mi i groesawu’r ffaith y bydd gorsaf ambiwlans Hendy-gwyn ar Daf yn darparu gwasanaeth 24 awr? Yr ydych eisoes wedi darparu’r cyllid, ac mae Awdurdod Iechyd Dyfed Powys wedi cymeradwyo’r strategaeth o’r diwedd. Mae hyn yn hollbwysig yn ddaearyddol, gan fod yr orsaf yn gwasanaethu’r gefnwlad wledig a llawer o’r Gorllewin yn ogystal â Hendy-gwyn ar Daf. A wnewch addo’ch cefnogaeth barhaus i’w chadw?

Jane Hutt spoken in English p. 21

Jane Hutt siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 21

I am delighted that the additional £1 million of Assembly money that I have put directly into emergency ambulance services has resulted in developments such as Whitland ambulance station providing full 24-hour cover. In the Health and Social Services Committee meeting last week, I announced that from next April we will move towards a situation where ambulance services will be centrally commissioned. That will ensure that such schemes will be taken forward.

Yr wyf wrth fy modd bod y £1 filiwn o arian y Cynulliad a roddais yn uniongyrchol at wasanaethau ambiwlans brys wedi arwain at ddatblygiadau fel y gwasanaeth 24 awr llawn a ddarperir gan orsaf ambiwlans Hendy-gwyn ar Daf. Yng nghyfarfod y Pwyllgor Iechyd a Gwasanaethau Cymdeithasol yr wythnos diwethaf, cyhoeddais y byddwn yn symud o fis Ebrill nesaf ymlaen at gomisiynu gwasanaethau ambiwlans yn ganolog. Bydd hynny’n sicrhau y caiff cynlluniau o’r fath eu datblygu.

Nick Bourne spoken in English p. 21

Nick Bourne siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 21

It is of concern that the position with regard to waiting lists and treatment is often not as good in Wales as it is in England. Will you take this opportunity, therefore, to underline the importance of retaining and enhancing the paediatric neurological services at Morriston Hospital?

Mae’n destun pryder nad yw’r sefyllfa o ran rhestrau aros a thriniaeth gystal yn aml yng Nghymru ag y mae yn Lloegr. A wnewch fanteisio ar y cyfle hwn, felly, i bwysleisio mor bwysig yw cadw a gwella’r gwasanaethau niwrolegol pediatrig yn Ysbyty Treforus?

Jane Hutt spoken in English p. 21

Jane Hutt siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 21

The recruitment and retention of staff in Wales is at the top of our priorities in terms of delivering on our waiting times strategy. It is also important that we ensure that specialist provision is available across Wales—in primary, secondary and tertiary services. That must be provided in many cases with partners in England as well as in Wales—for example, Alder Hey Hospital providing services for north Wales paediatric specialist care. Your points will be pertinent to the ongoing consultation.

Recriwtio a chadw staff yng Nghymru yw ein blaenoriaeth bennaf o ran cyflawni ein strategaeth amseroedd aros. Mae hefyd yn bwysig ein bod yn sicrhau bod darpariaeth arbenigol ar gael ledled Cymru—mewn gwasanaethau sylfaenol, eilaidd a thrydyddol. Rhaid darparu hynny mewn llawer achos gyda phartneriaid yn Lloegr yn ogystal â Chymru—er enghraifft, y gwasanaethau a ddarperir gan Ysbyty Alder Hey ar gyfer gofal arbenigol pediatrig yn y Gogledd. Bydd eich pwyntiau’n berthnasol i’r ymgynghori cyfredol.

Darpariaeth Ddeintyddol

Dental Provision

Q6 Janice Gregory spoken in English p. 21

C6 Janice Gregory siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 21

Will the Minister make a statement on dental provision in the NHS? (OAQ18895)

A wnaiff y Gweinidog ddatganiad ar ddarpariaeth ddeintyddol y GIG? (OAQ18895)

Jane Hutt spoken in English p. 22

Jane Hutt siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 22

The Welsh Assembly Government is committed to ensuring that a high quality NHS dental service is available to those who wish to use it, wherever they live in Wales. I am promoting this through the Welsh dental initiative, which has proved successful in attracting dentists to areas where they are most needed, and thereby to Wales as a whole.

Mae Llywodraeth Cynulliad Cymru wedi ymrwymo i sicrhau bod gwasanaeth deintyddol GIG o ansawdd da ar gael i’r rhai sy’n dymuno ei ddefnyddio, ym mha le bynnag y maent yn byw yng Nghymru. Yr wyf yn hyrwyddo hyn drwy fenter ddeintyddol Cymru, sydd wedi profi’n llwyddiannus o ran denu deintyddion i’r ardaloedd lle y mae’r angen amdanynt yn fwyaf, a thrwy hynny i Gymru gyfan.

Janice Gregory spoken in English p. 22

Janice Gregory siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 22

In my constituency, NHS dentists cope well under immense pressure, as they can be greatly oversubscribed. This is compounded by new housing developments in all areas of Wales. What additional action can be taken on a national and local level to ensure that NHS dentist provision meets the needs of the local population?

Yn fy etholaeth i, mae deintyddion y GIG yn ymdopi’n dda dan bwysau aruthrol, gan fod llyfrau llawer ohonynt yn orlawn. Gwaethygir hynny gan y datblygiadau tai newydd ym mhob rhan o Gymru. Pa gamau ychwanegol y gellir eu cymryd ar lefel genedlaethol a lleol i sicrhau bod y ddarpariaeth o ddeintyddion y GIG yn diwallu anghenion y boblogaeth leol?

Jane Hutt spoken in English p. 22

Jane Hutt siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 22

I announced a dental initiative in March, which provides the service with an extra £1.8 million over the next two years, and widens the scheme’s flexibility to attract more dentists into NHS service. There has been a 5 per cent increase in the general dental service since 1995, and a 17 per cent increase in principal dentists in Wales, which are important in the provision of the NHS dental service. We will also develop a Welsh dental strategy, alongside the primary care strategy, which we are debating next week in the Health and Social Services Committee, which will focus on local needs as well as the national strategy.

Cyhoeddais fenter ddeintyddol ym Mawrth, sy’n darparu £1.8 miliwn ychwanegol ar gyfer y gwasanaeth dros y ddwy flynedd nesaf, ac yn gwneud y cynllun yn fwy hyblyg er mwyn denu rhagor o ddeintyddion i wasanaethu’r GIG. Bu cynnydd o 5 y cant yn y gwasanaeth deintyddol cyffredinol ers 1995, a chynnydd o 17 y cant yn y prif ddeintyddion yng Nghymru, sy’n bwysig wrth ddarparu gwasanaeth deintyddol y GIG. Byddwn hefyd yn datblygu strategaeth ddeintyddol i Gymru, ochr yn ochr â’r strategaeth gofal sylfaenol, y byddwn yn ei thrafod yr wythnos nesaf yn y Pwyllgor Iechyd a Gwasanaethau Cymdeithasol, a fydd yn canolbwyntio ar anghenion lleol yn ogystal â’r strategaeth genedlaethol.

Elin Jones siaradwyd yn Gymraeg t. 22

Elin Jones spoken in Welsh p. 22

Ni ddeallaf sut y gallwch gyflwyno’ch menter ddeintyddol fel menter lwyddiannus o ystyried yr argyfwng sydd yn parhau yng Ngheredigion ynglŷn â deintyddion GIG. Yr ydych yn ymwybodol bod Awdurdod Iechyd Gogledd Cymru yn cynnig ysgoloriaethau i bobl ifanc hyfforddi i fod yn ddeintyddion GIG, ond mae Awdurdod Iechyd Dyfed Powys yn gwrthod gwneud hynny. A wnewch chi drafod yr angen i gynnig y bwrsariaethau hyn ag Awdurdod Iechyd Dyfed Powys fel rhyw fath o ymateb tymor hir i’r diffyg gwasanaeth deintyddol GIG yn fy ardal i?

I do not understand how you can say that your dental initiative is successful in view of the continuing crisis in Ceredigion with regard to NHS dentists. You are aware that the North Wales Health Authority offers scholarships for young people to train as NHS dentists, but Dyfed Powys Health Authority refuses to do so. Will you discuss with Dyfed Powys Health Authority the need to offer these bursaries as some sort of long-term response to the shortage of NHS dental services in my area?

Jane Hutt spoken in English p. 23

Jane Hutt siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 23

The bursary route and our training capacity will form part of the Welsh dental strategy considerations. Since 1995, we have seen progress with 42 new practices, 41 expanded practices, 13 new posts in the community dental service, and 5 mobile units for the community dental service—one for each health authority. However, we have a long way to go to ensure a sufficient national dental service in Wales.

Bydd y llwybr bwrsariaethau a’n capasiti hyfforddi’n rhan o ystyriaethau strategaeth ddeintyddol Cymru. Ers 1995, yr ydym wedi gweld cynnydd gyda 42 o bractisiau newydd, 41 o bractisiau mwy, 13 o swyddi newydd yn y gwasanaeth deintyddol cymunedol, a phum uned symudol i’r gwasanaeth deintyddol cymunedol—un i bob awdurdod iechyd. Er hynny, mae gennym lawer i’w wneud i sicrhau gwasanaeth deintyddol cenedlaethol digonol yng Nghymru.

Datganiad ar Allied Steel and Wire

Statement on Allied Steel and Wire

Andrew Davies The Minister for Economic Development spoken in English p. 23

Andrew Davies Y Gweinidog dros Ddatblygu Economaidd siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 23

It is my sad duty this morning to make a statement on yesterday’s distressing announcement that Allied Steel and Wire, the UK’s second largest steel producer, has gone into administrative receivership. The Assembly is well aware of the turbulent times that have beset the steel industry over the last few years, but this announcement, involving 1,200 jobs in Cardiff and Sheerness, in addition to the recent Corus closures, is another major blow to Wales’s leading export sector. ASW Holdings plc has, over the last few months, suffered severe cash flow pressures and, following the breach of covenants, the company’s financiers have now had to withdraw their support, forcing the company into administrative receivership.

Fy nyletswydd drist y bore yma yw gwneud datganiad am y cyhoeddiad gofidus ddoe bod Allied Steel and Wire, cynhyrchydd dur ail fwyaf y DU, wedi mynd i law’r derbynnydd. Mae’r Cynulliad yn ymwybodol iawn o’r troeon cythryblus sydd wedi dod i ran y diwydiant dur dros y blynyddoedd diwethaf hyn, ond mae’r cyhoeddiad hwn, sy’n ymwneud â 1,200 o swyddi yng Nghaerdydd ac yn Sheerness, yn ogystal â’r cau diweddar gan Corus, yn ergyd fawr arall i brif sector allforio Cymru. Dros y misoedd diwethaf, mae ASW Holdings ccc wedi profi pwysau difrifol o ran ei lif arian ac, ar ôl torri ymrwymiadau, mae cyllidwyr y cwmni bellach wedi gorfod tynnu’n ôl eu cefnogaeth, gan orfodi’r cwmni i fynd i law’r derbynnydd.

I assure Members that the Welsh Assembly Government has not stood idly by while this has taken place. For many months, we have explored, with the company, ways in which we can help. Following extensive ministerial discussions with the company bankers on Friday, I, along with Alan Johnson, the Minister of State for Employment, Manufacturing and Regions at the Department of Trade and Industry, jointly chaired a nine-hour meeting on Monday in London with the company, its bankers, credit insurers and potential investors. This focused on whether the financiers were willing to give the company more time so that the trade investor could continue with diligence checks. ASW, its financiers and Ministers have held extensive discussions since the meeting but, unfortunately, the company’s financiers were not prepared to support the company further, and the board of ASW Holdings plc had no choice but to put the company into administrative receivership.

Yr wyf yn sicrhau’r Aelodau na safodd Llywodraeth Cynulliad Cymru o’r neilltu tra oedd hyn yn digwydd. Am fisoedd lawer, yr ydym wedi ymchwilio, gyda’r cwmni, i’r cymorth y gallwn ei roi. Ar ôl trafodaethau helaeth gan y Gweinidogion gyda bancwyr y cwmni ddydd Gwener, bûm i, ynghyd ag Alan Johnson, y Gweinidog Gwladol dros Gyflogaeth, Gweithgynhyrchu a’r Rhanbarthau yn yr Adran Masnach a Diwydiant, yn cydgadeirio cyfarfod naw awr o hyd ddydd Llun yn Llundain gyda’r cwmni, ei fancwyr, ei yswirwyr credyd a buddsoddwyr dichonol. Ymdriniwyd yn bennaf â pha un a fyddai’r cyllidwyr yn barod i roi mwy o amser i’r cwmni fel y gallai’r buddsoddwr masnach barhau â’i wiriadau ar ddiwydrwydd. Mae ASW, ei gyllidwyr a’r Gweinidogion wedi cynnal trafodaethau helaeth ers y cyfarfod hwnnw ond, gwaetha’r modd, nid oedd cyllidwyr y cwmni’n barod i gefnogi’r cwmni ymhellach, a’r unig ddewis a oedd gan fwrdd ASW Holdings ccc oedd rhoi’r cwmni yn llaw’r derbynnydd.

Despite the current difficulties, the company directors had felt that, with appropriate financing, its prospects were sound. Over the last few years, ASW, with great efforts from its workforce and management, has been improving its efficiency. It has 50 per cent of the buoyant UK reinforcing bar market for the construction industry, and recently introduced acceptable price increases. However, problems with the company’s credit rating, and rises in the world price of ferrous scrap—its main raw material—led to cash flow pressures, and an increasing dependence on the goodwill of the company’s financiers.

Er gwaethaf yr anawsterau presennol, yr oedd cyfarwyddwyr y cwmni wedi teimlo y byddai dyfodol cadarn iddo, o gael cyllid addas. Dros y blynyddoedd diwethaf, mae ASW wedi bod yn gwella ei effeithlondeb, gydag ymdrech fawr gan ei weithlu a’i reolwyr. Mae ganddo 50 y cant o’r farchnad fywiog am fariau atgyfnerthu i’r diwydiant adeiladu yn y DU, a chyflwynodd godiadau derbyniol yn ei brisiau’n ddiweddar. Er hynny, yr oedd problemau ynghylch statws credyd y cwmni, a chodiadau ym mhris haearn sgrap—ei brif ddeunydd crai—drwy’r byd wedi arwain at bwysau ar ei lif arian, a dibyniaeth gynyddol ar ewyllys da cyllidwyr y cwmni.

The receiver from KPMG Consulting will want to sell the business as an operating concern after advanced negotiations with a potential investor. The Welsh Assembly Government and its agencies will do whatever they can to help to find the right buyer. As I reported to the Economic Development Committee yesterday, I have already spoken to the receiver and offered our full support. I believe that the Prime Minister also made a statement to the House of Commons yesterday, offering the Westminster Government’s full support. Unfortunately, it appears that the European Commission’s steel state aid code, even in its new form, will not allow us to provide any financial assistance for operations or recovery.

Bydd y derbynnydd o KPMG Consulting yn dymuno gwerthu’r busnes fel un gweithredol ar ôl negodi helaeth â buddsoddwr dichonol. Gwnaiff Llywodraeth Cynulliad Cymru a’i hasiantaethau beth bynnag a allant i helpu i ddod o hyd i’r prynwr iawn. Fel yr adroddais i’r Pwyllgor Datblygu Economaidd ddoe, yr wyf eisoes wedi siarad â’r derbynnydd gan gynnig pob cefnogaeth gennym. Credaf fod y Prif Weinidog wedi gwneud datganiad gerbron Tŷ’r Cyffredin ddoe, gan gynnig cefnogaeth lwyr Llywodraeth San Steffan. Gwaetha’r modd, ymddengys na fydd cod y Comisiwn Ewropeaidd ar gymorth gwladwriaethol i’r diwydiant dur, hyd yn oed y ffurf newydd arno, yn gadael inni ddarparu unrhyw gymorth ariannol ar gyfer gweithrediadau neu adfer.

Naturally, the Welsh Assembly Government, along with its partners in Team Wales, is prepared to do all it can to assist those affected by the announcement, including suppliers and contractors. The relative buoyancy of Cardiff’s economy means that Cardiff may be in a better position to absorb this blow than other parts of Wales. However, that is not to minimise the potentially serious impact on Splott and other areas in south Cardiff.

Wrth gwrs, mae Llywodraeth Cynulliad Cymru, ynghyd â’i phartneriaid yn Nhîm Cymru, yn barod i wneud popeth a allo i gynorthwyo’r rhai y mae’r cyhoeddiad yn effeithio arnynt, gan gynnwys y cyflenwyr a’r contractwyr. Gan fod economi Caerdydd yn gymharol fywiog, mae’n bosibl y bydd mewn gwell sefyllfa i allu dygymod â’r ergyd hon na rhannau eraill o Gymru. Fodd bynnag, ni fwriedir bychanu’r effaith ddifrifol bosibl ar y Sblot ac ardaloedd eraill yn ne Caerdydd wrth ddweud hynny.

The Assembly Government will not be deterred from its ambitious economic strategy for Wales. The economy, despite these setbacks, continues to grow and our large companies remain important. However, above all else, we must help create an environment in which innovation and entrepreneurship flourishes. That is why I am announcing today a major Welsh Assembly Government initiative to ensure that we have a first rate broadband communications infrastructure that can be widely used by individuals, the public sector and companies of all sizes throughout Wales.

Ni rwystrir Llywodraeth y Cynulliad rhag dilyn ei strategaeth economaidd uchelgeisiol i Gymru. Er gwaethaf yr anffodion hyn, mae’r economi’n dal i dyfu ac mae ein cwmnïau mawr yn bwysig o hyd. Fodd bynnag, yn fwy na dim arall, rhaid inni helpu i greu amgylchedd lle y mae arloesedd ac entrepreneuriaeth yn ffynnu. Dyna pam yr wyf yn cyhoeddi menter fawr heddiw gan Lywodraeth Cynulliad Cymru i sicrhau bod gennym seilwaith cyfathrebu band llydan o’r radd flaenaf a all gael ei ddefnyddio’n helaeth gan unigolion, y sector cyhoeddus a chwmnïau o bob maint ledled Cymru.

Everyone in the Chamber knows that no Government can prevent such distressing announcements on companies going into receivership. However, we can continue to focus on establishing a more innovative, entrepreneurial and thriving economy that will enable us to better absorb such blows. We will also provide every assistance and support for those affected by this announcement. I am grateful for ASW’s acknowledgement of the huge efforts of the Welsh Assembly Government, the Department of Trade and Industry and the Wales Office, over many months, to try to avoid this situation. From the outset, the Assembly Government has made it clear to ASW that we would assist the company in any way possible. We have just done that. We will continue to do so in the coming weeks.

Fe ŵyr pawb yn y Siambr na all yr un Llywodraeth atal cyhoeddiadau gofidus o’r fath am gwmnïau sy’n mynd i law’r derbynnydd. Fodd bynnag, gallwn barhau i ganolbwyntio ar sefydlu economi fwy arloesol, entrepreneuraidd a ffyniannus a fydd yn ein galluogi i ddygymod ag ergydion o’r fath. Gwnawn ddarparu pob cymorth a chefnogaeth hefyd i’r rhai y mae’r cyhoeddiad hwn yn effeithio arnynt. Yr wyf yn ddiolchgar i ASW am gydnabod yr ymdrechion aruthrol gan Lywodraeth Cynulliad Cymru, yr Adran Masnach a Diwydiant a Swyddfa Cymru, dros fisoedd lawer, i geisio osgoi’r sefyllfa hon. O’r dechrau, mae Llywodraeth y Cynulliad wedi dweud yn bendant wrth ASW y byddem yn cynorthwyo’r cwmni ym mhob modd posibl. Dyna’n union a wnaethom. Parhawn i wneud hynny yn yr wythnosau i ddod.

Elin Jones siaradwyd yn Gymraeg t. 25

Elin Jones spoken in Welsh p. 25

Croesawaf y ffaith bod eich Llywodraeth wedi ymdrechu i gefnogi ASW yn ei ddyddiau olaf. Fodd bynnag, nid oes angen ailadrodd gymaint o ergyd fydd hon i’r hyn sy’n weddill o’r diwydiant dur yng Nghymru, i dros 1,000 o weithwyr ASW ac i gontractwyr a chyflenwyr y cwmni.

I welcome your Government’s efforts to support ASW in its last days. However, it does not need to be repeated how heavy a blow this will be to what remains of the steel industry in Wales, to more than 1,000 ASW workers and to the company’s contractors and suppliers.

Aeth mwy na blwyddyn heibio ers i brif weithredwr ASW, Graham Mackenzie, rybuddio bod lefel uchel y bunt, a’r ffaith nad oes penderfyniad wedi’i wneud ar ymuno â’r ewro, yn niweidiol i gwmni fel ASW, sy’n masnachu yn bennaf gydag ardal yr ewro. Ddoe, gwelsom pa mor niweidiol y gall y polisïau hynny fod. A yw’r Gweinidog yn cydnabod bod aros y tu allan i ardal yr ewro yn peryglu dyfodol y diwydiant gweithgynhyrchu a diwydiannau eraill yng Nghyrmu? Yn ogystal, mae polisïau economaidd Gordon Brown yn cadw lefel y bunt yn uchel. A ydych yn barod i roi hwb i Gordon Brown iddo benderfynu ynglŷn â’r ewro cyn i ragor o fusnesau gweithgynhyrchu ddiflannu?

It is more than a year since Graham Mackenzie, ASW’s chief executive, warned that the high level of the pound and the fact that no decision has been made on joining the euro, would be damaging to companies such as ASW, whose trade is mainly with the eurozone. Yesterday, we saw how damaging those policies can be. Does the Minister acknowledge that remaining outside the eurozone is jeopardizing the future of the manufacturing industry and other industries in Wales? In addition, Gordon Brown’s economic policies are keeping the level of the pound high. Are you prepared to nudge Gordon Brown to make a decision on the euro before more manufacturing businesses disappear?

Gwyddoch am feirniadaeth lem Graham Mackenzie ar barodrwydd Tony Blair i ymyrryd ar ran Mr Mittal a’i ddiddordebau dur yn Rwmania, tra’n gwneud dim i gefnogi busesau dur yng ngwledydd Prydain. A wnewch gadarnhau a gymerodd Tony Blair ran yn y trafodaethau i achub ASW? Os na wnaeth, a fyddai cyfraniad o £100,000 i’r Blaid Lafur wedi newid ei feddwl?

You are aware of Graham Mackenzie’s harsh criticism of Tony Blair’s willingness to intervene on behalf of Mr Mittal and his steel interests in Romania, while doing nothing to support steel businesses in Britain. Will you confirm whether Tony Blair took part in the discussions to save ASW? If he did not, would a contribution of £100,000 to the Labour Party have changed his mind?

Dywedodd cynrychiolydd KPMG ar y radio y bore yma mai tollau dur Unol Daleithiau America oedd yr hoelen olaf yn arch ASW. Rhaid i’ch Llywodraeth chi a Llywodraeth Tony Blair bwyso ar yr Undeb Ewropeaidd i gynyddu ei ymdrechion i waredu’r tollau.

A KPMG representative said on the radio this morning that the United States of America’s steel tariffs were the final nail in ASW’s coffin. Your Government and Tony Blair’s Government must bring pressure to bear on the European Union to increase its efforts to abolish the tariffs.

Mae gennyf ble bersonol ar ran gweithwyr ASW. A wnewch chi a Phrif Weinidog Cymru ysgrifennu at George Bush gan amlinellu canlyniadau ei bolisi i godi tollau ar fewnforion dur, er mwyn dwyn rhywfaint o gywilydd arno? Nis gwn a yw’n bosibl dwyn cywilydd ar George Bush, ond dylid ei wneud yn ymwybodol o ganlyniadau polisi unochrog yr Unol Daleithiau yn y maes hwn.

I have a personal plea on behalf of the ASW workers. Will you and the First Minister write to George Bush outlining the consequences of his policy to impose tariffs on steel imports, in order to make him feel some shame for his actions? I do not know whether it is possible to make George Bush feel ashamed, but he should be made aware of the consequences of the United States’s unilateral policy in this regard.

A ydych chi, a Downing Street, yn barod i bwyso ar y Comisiwn Ewropeaidd i ganiatáu i Lywodraethau Prydain a Chymru gynnig y cymorth mwyaf posibl o fewn y rheolau—yr wyf yn cydnabod bod y rheolau hynny’n gaeth—i sicrhau parhad y gwaith dur ar y safle hwn? Gwyddom i gyd fod Wimpey Homes a Barratt yn llygadu’r safle. Gobeithiaf fod pob Aelod yn cytuno mai gwaith ar gyfer 1,000 o bobl sydd ei angen ar y safle, ac nid rhagor o fflatiau crand i fae Caedydd.

Are you, and Downing Street, prepared to bring pressure to bear on the European Commission to permit the British Government and the Government of Wales to offer the greatest possible assistance within the rules—I acknowledge that those rules are strict—to ensure that steel production continues on this site? We all know that Wimpey Homes and Barratt are eyeing up the site. I hope that all Members agree that we need work for 1,000 people on this site, not more luxury flats for Cardiff bay.

Andrew Davies spoken in English p. 27

Andrew Davies siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 27

While I thank you for recognising the Welsh Assembly Government’s attempts to avoid this situation, I am disappointed with the tone of some of your questions. ASW’s management—Graham Mackenzie in particular—has put on record its appreciation of the work of the Welsh Assembly Government, the DTI and the Wales Office in trying to avoid the situation.

Er fy mod yn diolch i chi am gydnabod ymdrechion Llywodraeth Cynulliad Cymru i osgoi’r sefyllfa hon, yr wyf wedi siomi yng ngoslef rhai o’ch cwestiynau. Mae rheolwyr ASW—a Graham Mackenzie yn benodol—wedi cofnodi eu gwerthfawrogiad o waith Llywodraeth Cynulliad Cymru, yr Adran Masnach a Diwydiant a Swyddfa Cymru wrth geisio osgoi’r sefyllfa hon.

The appreciation in the exchange rate between the euro and the pound has alleviated the trading position of ASW Holdings plc. The company recognises that, and it was one of the points made in my marathon discussion with the company and its financiers on Monday. ASW, along with potential purchasers, consider the medium-term prospects for steel production in Cardiff to be quite buoyant, with the appreciation of the euro against the pound being one of the contributing factors.

Mae’r cynnydd yn y gyfradd gyfnewid rhwng yr ewro a’r bunt wedi lliniaru sefyllfa masnachu ASW Holdings ccc. Mae’r cwmni’n cydnabod hynny, a hwnnw oedd un o’r pwyntiau a wnaed yn fy nhrafodaeth hirfaith gyda’r cwmni a’i gyllidwyr ddydd Llun. Mae ASW, a’r rhai a allai’i brynu, yn credu bod dyfodol tymor canolig eithaf bywiog i gynhyrchu dur yng Nghaerdydd, a’r cynnydd yng ngwerth yr ewro yn erbyn y bunt yw un o’r ffactorau cyfrannol.

Lack of agreement between the financiers and the credit insurers was the main reason for the company eventually calling in the receivers. You mentioned the Lakshmi Mittal case; that, and the closure of the steel company in Cork, taught credit insurers to be more cautious in offering financial assistance to steel companies.

Diffyg cytundeb rhwng y cyllidwyr a’r yswirwyr credyd oedd y prif reswm yr oedd y cwmni’n gorfod galw am y derbynwyr yn y diwedd. Gwnaethoch sôn am achos Lakshmi Mittal; hynny, a chau’r cwmni dur yng Nghorc, a ddysgodd yr yswirwyr credyd i fod yn fwy gochelgar wrth gynnig cymorth ariannol i gwmnïau dur.

ASW has stated that the American Government’s imposition of steel tariffs did not have a direct effect on the company. We have worked with the DTI to put pressure on the European Union to introduce retaliatory measures. We have done all that we can. The First Minister and I have written to the Secretary of State for Trade and Industry, and we fully support the actions of the DTI and the UK Government in tackling the implications of the US tariffs.

Mae ASW wedi datgan nad oedd gosod tollau dur gan Lywodraeth America wedi cael effaith uniongyrchol ar y cwmni. Yr ydym wedi gweithio gyda’r Adran Masnach a Diwydiant i bwyso ar yr Undeb Ewropeaidd i gyflwyno mesurau ad-daledigol. Gwnaethom bopeth a allem. Mae Prif Weinidog Cymru a minnau wedi ysgrifennu at yr Ysgrifennydd Gwladol dros Fasnach a Diwydiant, ac yr ydym yn llwyr gefnogi camau’r Adran Masnach a Diwydiant a Llywodraeth y DU wrth wynebu goblygiadau tollau’r Unol Daleithiau.

In terms of EU assistance, it would be misleading to suggest, as some have done, that we have not explored the avenue of providing state assistance to the company. The European coal and steel community rules state clearly that we cannot provide direct financial assistance. We have explored this over many months with the DTI, and the company has also explored the possibility. However, there is no scope within the European rules to give direct financial assistance to the company. It has always been, and remains, our aim to maintain steel production at ASW. We will not speculate on any future use of the site because our aim—and I made this clear to KPMG yesterday—is to ensure that steel production, and as many jobs as possible, can be maintained on the Tremorfa site.

O ran cymorth yr UE, camarweiniol fyddai awgrymu, fel y gwnaeth rhai, nad ydym wedi ymchwilio i’r posibilrwydd o ddarparu cymorth gwladol i’r cwmni. Mae rheolau’r gymuned glo a dur Ewropeaidd yn datgan yn bendant na allwn ddarparu cymorth ariannol uniongyrchol. Yr ydym wedi ymchwilio i hyn dros fisoedd lawer gyda’r Adran Masnach a Diwydiant, ac mae’r cwmni wedi ymchwilio i hyn hefyd. Fodd bynnag, nid oes cyfle dan y rheolau Ewropeaidd i roi cymorth ariannol uniongyrchol i’r cwmni. Ein nod ni, fel y bu erioed, yw cadw cynhyrchu dur yn ASW. Ni wnawn ddyfalu ynghylch unrhyw ddefnydd o’r safle yn y dyfodol gan mai ein nod ni—ac eglurais hyn i KMPG ddoe—yw sicrhau y gellir cadw cynhyrchu dur, a chynifer o swyddi ag y bo modd, ar safle Tremorfa.

Lorraine Barrett spoken in English p. 28

Lorraine Barrett siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 28

As the local constituency Member for the area in which Allied Steel and Wire is situated, it gives me no pleasure to comment on this statement. Splott and Tremorfa have a proud history of steel production, and many of you will have heard the stories of local residents—some of whom are colleagues in the Labour Party— who worked in the former steelworks in Eastmoors. This is a sad day for them, given the history. The ASW site is the last landmark of our heavy industry heritage in Cardiff. People always cite Cardiff as a wealthy city. Parts of it are affluent, and much regeneration is happening. However, Splott, Tremorfa and other wards are among the top 100 deprived communities in Wales. The loss of 1,000 jobs and the knock-on effects on the associated ancillary work and on the local economy will be a huge blow to the area.

Fel yr Aelod etholaeth lleol dros yr ardal lle y mae safle Allied Steel and Wire, nid yw’n bleser o gwbl imi wneud sylw ar y datganiad hwn. Mae gan y Sblot a Thremorfa hanes anrhydeddus o gynhyrchu dur, a bydd llawer ohonoch wedi clywed storïau gan drigolion lleol—rhai ohonynt yn gyd-aelodau o’r Blaid Lafur—a weithiai yn y cyn waith dur yn Eastmoors. Mae heddiw’n ddiwrnod trist iddynt hwy, o ystyried yr hanes. Safle ASW yw’r arwydd olaf o’n treftadaeth diwydiant trwm yng Nghaerdydd. Mae pobl bob amser yn cyfeirio at Gaerdydd fel dinas gyfoethog. Mae rhannau ohoni’n llewyrchus, ac mae llawer o adfywio’n digwydd. Er hynny, mae y Sblot, Tremorfa a wardiau eraill ymysg y 100 o gymunedau mwyaf difreintiedig yng Nghymru. Bydd colli 1,000 o swyddi a’r effeithiau cynyddol ar y gwaith ategol cysylltiedig ac ar yr economi leol yn ergyd drom i’r ardal.

We are under considerable pressure at present to locate jobs outside Cardiff. However, this situation is a warning that all is not well in Cardiff; matters can go wrong in all parts of Wales and the UK. It is a matter of market forces. I am pleased that you have addressed the issue of state aid and European funding, because I had intended to raise that issue. A Conservative MEP stated today that you could have applied for, and received, European aid. I am pleased, therefore, that you have covered that issue and shown that it is not that easy.

Yr ydym dan gryn bwysau ar hyn o bryd i leoli swyddi y tu allan i Gaerdydd. Fodd bynnag, mae’r sefyllfa hon yn rhybudd nad yw popeth yn iawn yng Nghaerdydd; fe all pethau fynd o chwith ym mhob rhan o Gymru ac o’r DU. Grymoedd y farchnad sy’n gyfrifol am hyn. Yr wyf yn falch eich bod wedi ymdrin â mater cymorth gwladol a chyllid Ewropeaidd, gan fy mod wedi bwriadu codi’r mater hwnnw. Dywedodd ASE Ceidwadol heddiw y gallech fod wedi ymgeisio am gymorth Ewropeaidd, a’i dderbyn. Yr wyf yn falch, felly, eich bod wedi ymdrin â’r mater hwnnw ac wedi dangos nad yw mor rhwydd â hynny.

We can all get into the blame game: I could have a go at the banks, for example. I agree, to some extent, with Elin about the US steel tariffs. Thank you, George Bush—you preach free trade around the world but protectionism for your own country. That is my criticism of him. However, the future of my constituents and their work colleagues must now be the priority for everyone in the Chamber.

Fe all pob un ohonom ddechrau bwrw bai: gallwn ymosod ar y banciau, er enghraifft. Yr wyf yn cytuno, i ryw raddau, â’r hyn a ddywedodd Elin am dollau dur yr Unol Daleithiau. Diolch i chi, George Bush—yr ydych yn pregethu masnach rydd o gwmpas y byd ond diffyndollaeth i’ch gwlad eich hun. Dyna fy ymosodiad i arno ef. Fodd bynnag, rhaid i ddyfodol fy etholwyr a’u cydweithwyr fod yn flaenoriaeth i bawb yn y Siambr yn awr.

I thank the Minister for his involvement in the discussions with the DTI, the Welsh Development Agency, the banks and the company itself. Graham Mackenzie paid tribute to all those who have tried to prevent this dreadful situation. I urge the Minister to continue with his efforts. I have been in touch with the Iron and Steel Trades Confederation, which said that it will do all it can to advise its members. I cannot give up on the hope that the company can, and will, survive in one form or another. I am also grateful to the receivers for their quick response yesterday in contacting me, and others, to provide their details and to invite us to contact them if we need any information. I urge the Minister to do all he can to help the people of Cardiff in this desperate situation.

Diolchaf i’r Gweinidog am y rhan a gymerodd yn y trafodaethau â’r Adran Masnach a Diwydiant, Awdurdod Datblygu Cymru, y banciau a’r cwmni ei hun. Talodd Graham Mackenzie deyrnged i bawb a geisiodd atal y sefyllfa ofnadwy hon. Pwysaf ar y Gweinidog i barhau â’i ymdrechion. Bûm mewn cysylltiad â Chydffederasiwn y Crefftau Haearn a Dur, a ddywedodd y gwnaiff bopeth yn ei allu i gynghori ei aelodau. Ni allaf ildio’r gobaith y bydd y cwmni’n gallu goroesi ar ryw ffurf neu’i gilydd. Yr wyf hefyd yn ddiolchgar i’r derbynwyr am eu hymateb cyflym ddoe wrth gysylltu â mi, ac eraill, i roi eu manylion a’n gwahodd i gysylltu â hwy os bydd arnom angen unrhyw wybodaeth. Anogaf y Gweinidog i wneud popeth a allo i helpu pobl Caerdydd yn y sefyllfa enbyd hon.

Andrew Davies spoken in English p. 29

Andrew Davies siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 29

All our thoughts are with your constituents and their families. You rightly point out that some of the most deprived communities in Wales are in your constituency. I did not mean to imply that these jobs are not as important as others, or that there are not areas of deprivation in Cardiff. The main thrust of all our policies is to maintain employment in all parts of Wales, including Cardiff. Cardiff is a major source of employment not only for the city itself, but also the Valleys. Some 30 or 40 per cent of those who work in Cardiff commute there from the Valleys.

Mae eich etholwyr a’u teuluoedd ym mlaen ein meddwl. Yr ydych yn nodi’n gywir fod rhai o’r cymunedau mwyaf difreintiedig yng Nghymru yn eich etholaeth chi. Nid oeddwn yn golygu awgrymu nad yw’r swyddi hyn gyn bwysiced ag eraill, neu nad oes ardaloedd difreintiedig yng Nghaerdydd. Prif bwyslais ein holl bolisïau yw cynnal cyflogaeth ym mhob rhan o Gymru, gan gynnwys Caerdydd. Mae Caerdydd yn ffynhonnell cyflogaeth bwysig, nid yn unig i’r ddinas ei hun, ond i’r Cymoedd hefyd. Mae rhyw 30 neu 40 y cant o’r rhai sy’n gweithio yng Nghaerdydd yn cymudo o’r Cymoedd.

As I said to the Economic Development Committee yesterday, as well as in interviews to the media and in today’s statement, the primary aim of the Assembly Government, the Wales Office and the DTI is to maintain steel production at Tremorfa. From my discussions with KPMG, I know that its primary aim is to save what it can of the existing production and jobs at Tremorfa. I had initial discussions with one of the receivers yesterday. Officials have been in continuous contact with the receivers, and I hope to be updated on the situation later today. The lead receiver talked to employees yesterday and, following discussions with contractors, suppliers, customers and the banks, the aim is to work out a strategy to see what can be recovered from ASW. We will do all we can to assist in this work, including working with ISTC. ISTC senior officials flew back from a conference in Tralee yesterday for urgent discussions with the receivers and all interested parties. I give you a categorical assurance that we will continue to do all that we can, working with the Westminster Government and the receivers, to maintain employment and production in Tremorfa.

Fel y dywedais wrth y Pwyllgor Datblygu Economaidd ddoe, a hefyd mewn cyfweliadau â’r cyfryngau ac yn y datganiad heddiw, prif nod Llywodraeth y Cynulliad, Swyddfa Cymru a’r Adran Masnach a Diwydiant yw cadw cynhyrchu dur yn Nhremorfa. Ar sail fy nhrafodaethau â KPMG, gwn mai ei brif nod yw achub yr hyn a allo o’r cynhyrchu a’r swyddi yn Nhremorfa. Cefais drafodaethau dechreuol ag un o’r derbynwyr ddoe. Mae’r swyddogion wedi bod mewn cysylltiad â’r derbynwyr yn barhaus, a gobeithiaf gael y wybodaeth ddiweddaraf am y sefyllfa yn ddiweddarach heddiw. Siaradodd y prif dderbynnydd â’r gweithwyr ddoe ac, ar ôl trafodaethau gyda chontractwyr, cyflenwyr, cwsmeriaid a’r banciau, y nod yw dyfeisio strategaeth i weld beth y gellir ei adfer o ASW. Gwnawn bopeth a allwn i gynorthwyo yn y gwaith hwn, gan gynnwys gweithio gyda Chydffederasiwn y Crefftau Haearn a Dur. Daeth uwch swyddogion Cydffederasiwn y Crefftau Haearn a Dur yn ôl mewn awyren o gynhadledd yn Tralee ddoe i gael trafodaethau brys gyda’r derbynwyr a phawb sy’n gysylltiedig. Rhoddaf sicrhad pendant i chi y byddwn yn parhau i wneud popeth a allwn, gan weithio gyda Llywodraeth San Steffan a’r derbynwyr, i gadw swyddi a chynhyrchu yn Nhremorfa.

David Melding spoken in English p. 30

David Melding siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 30

It seems that a formerly sound company, with relatively good prospects, is now in receivership. We all extend our sympathy to the workforce, who must be utterly bemused at how these forces operate and deprive them, at least temporarily, of their livelihoods. As a Member for the South Wales Central region, it is incumbent on me to scrutinise the Welsh Assembly Government’s actions. I do not know the technicalities of the issues; I freely concede that. However, some points must be put directly to you, Minister. I ask you to inform Members, either now or later in writing, which aspects of the EC code prevent financial assistance from the Welsh Assembly Government. I notice that, in your oral response to questions, you stated categorically that such assistance is not possible. However, your written statement was much more qualified and stated:

Mae’n ymddangos bod cwmni a oedd gynt yn gryf, a chanddo ddyfodol cymharol dda, yn awr yn llaw’r derbynnydd. Yr ydym oll yn estyn ein cydymdeimlad i’r gweithlu, sydd yn sicr o fod wedi’u syfrdanu’n llwyr ynghylch y modd y mae’r grymoedd hyn yn gweithio ac yn eu hamddifadu, dros dro o leiaf, o’u bywoliaeth. Fel Aelod dros ranbarth Canol De Cymru, mae’n ddyletswydd arnaf archwilio gweithredoedd Llywodraeth Cynulliad Cymru. Nid wyf yn gwybod am fanylion technegol y materion dan sylw; yr wyf yn cyfaddef hynny’n barod. Er hynny, rhaid gofyn rhai pethau ichi’n uniongyrchol, Weinidog. Gofynnaf ichi roi gwybod i’r Aelodau, ar lafar yn awr neu’n ddiweddarach yn ysgrifenedig, pa agweddau ar god y CE sy’n rhwystro Llywodraeth Cynulliad Cymru rhag rhoi cymorth ariannol. Sylwaf eich bod wedi dweud yn bendant, yn eich ymateb llafar i gwestiynau, nad yw cymorth o’r fath yn bosibl. Fodd bynnag, yr oedd eich datganiad ysgrifenedig yn llawer mwy amodol ac yn datgan:

‘Unfortunately, it appears that the European Commission’s steel state aid code, even in its new form, will not allow us to provide any financial assistance.’

‘Gwaetha’r modd, ymddengys na fydd cod y Comisiwn Ewropeaidd ar gymorth gwladwriaethol i’r diwydiant dur, hyd yn oed y ffurf newydd arno, yn gadael inni ddarparu unrhyw gymorth ariannol.’

There are many qualifications there: ‘it appears’ and ‘even in its new form’. Why have you shifted from those qualifications in writing to being much more explicit and direct in your oral response? Also, as this code has been under review and a new one developed, what meetings have you had with EC officials to urge an amendment that would allow appropriate financial assistance to be given when financiers’ games have clearly undermined a robust manufacturing operation? Ruling out all forms of funding, even when it would be repaid on some basis, seems severe and detrimental to our constituents.

Mae llawer o amodau yn y fan honno: ‘ymddengys’ a ‘hyd yn oed y ffurf newydd arno’. Pam yr ydych wedi symud oddi wrth yr amodau hynny mewn ysgrifen at fod yn llawer mwy pendant ac uniongyrchol yn eich ymateb llafar? Hefyd, gan fod y cod hwn wedi’i adolygu ac un newydd wedi’i ddatblygu, pa gyfarfodydd a gawsoch â swyddogion y CE i bwyso am newid a fyddai’n caniatáu rhoi cymorth ariannol priodol pan yw’n amlwg bod gemau gan gyllidwyr wedi tanseilio busnes gweithgynhyrchu cryf? Mae diystyru pob math o gyllid, hyd yn oed pan gâi ei ad-dalu drwy ryw drefniant, yn ymddangos yn llym ac yn niweidiol i’n hetholwyr.

Andrew Davies spoken in English p. 31

Andrew Davies siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 31

Thank you, David, for your thoughts about the employees and the uncertain position that they face. On European state aid, I will provide you and other Members with information on the rules in writing. We have had discussions with the company and the Department of Trade and Industry—the DTI is the lead body on state aid. The First Minister and I have worked with the DTI for many months on this matter. We have taken up the issue of state aid and help for the steel industry. The rules are clear and the company accepts the position. However, I will provide you with the information you requested in writing.

Diolch i chi, David, am feddwl am y gweithwyr a’r sefyllfa ansicr y maent yn ei hwynebu. Ynghylch cymorth gwladwriaethol Ewropeaidd, darparaf wybodaeth mewn ysgrifen am y rheolau ar eich cyfer chi a’r Aelodau eraill. Cawsom drafodaethau â’r cwmni a’r Adran Masnach a Diwydiant—yr Adran Masnach a Diwydiant yw’r corff arweiniol ar gymorth gwladwriaethol. Gweithiodd Prif Weinidog Cymru a minnau â’r Adran Masnach a Diwydiant am fisoedd lawer ar y mater hwn. Yr ydym wedi codi mater cymorth gwladwriaethol a chymorth i’r diwydiant dur. Mae’r rheolau’n glir ac mae’r cwmni’n derbyn y sefyllfa. Fodd bynnag, fe ddarparaf y wybodaeth a geisiasoch mewn ysgrifen ar eich cyfer.

Mick Bates spoken in English p. 32

Mick Bates siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 32

We are all thinking about the workforce and their families today and the anxiety this threat to their livelihoods causes them. There are short-term and long-term problems. In the short term, I would like your assurance, Minister, that the unions are holding discussions with Education and Learning Wales to prepare retraining packages if redundancy notices are issued. I would also like your assurance that a commercial business remains. We have heard statements that might raise hopes and expectations that a viable business remains and that, possibly, there are buyers for the remainder of the business. In the long term, it is important to examine the international issues that have been referred to. For example, companies such as ASW have suffered from the United States of America’s protectionist tariffs. The issue of the euro has also been referred to, and I am not sure that you have made clear this morning the Welsh Assembly Government’s stance on the euro and whether, as a result of this and other continued pressures on manufacturing, you have lobbied the Westminster Government to hold a referendum on the euro as soon as possible and whether the Government is committed to the success of that referendum.

Yr ydym oll yn cofio am y gweithlu a’u teuluoedd heddiw a’r pryder y mae’r bygythiad hwn i’w bywoliaeth yn ei beri iddynt. Mae problemau tymor byr a thymor hir. Yn y tymor byr, hoffwn gael sicrwydd gennych, Weinidog, fod yr undebau’n cynnal trafodaethau â Dysgu ac Addysgu Cymru i baratoi pecynnau ailhyfforddi os bydd diswyddiadau. Hoffwn gael sicrwydd gennych hefyd fod busnes masnachol yn bodoli o hyd. Clywsom ddatganiadau a allai godi gobeithion a disgwyliadau bod busnes hyfyw’n aros a bod prynwyr, o bosibl, i weddill y busnes. Yn y tymor hir, mae’n bwysig edrych ar y materion rhyngwladol y cyfeiriwyd atynt. Er enghraifft, mae cwmnïau fel ASW wedi dioddef oherydd diffyndollau Unol Daleithiau America. Cyfeiriwyd at fater yr ewro hefyd, ac nid wyf yn sicr a ydych wedi egluro safbwynt Llywodraeth Cynulliad Cymru ar yr ewro y bore yma ac a ydych, o ganlyniad i hyn ac i’r pwysau parhaus eraill ar weithgynhyrchu, wedi lobïo Llywodraeth San Steffan i gynnal refferendwm ar yr ewro cyn gynted ag y bo modd ac a yw’r Llywodraeth wedi ymrwymo i sicrhau llwyddiant y refferendwm hwnnw.

Finally, we often hear rhetoric about the demise of manufacturing. What aspects of our economic policy can be used to ensure research into the future of businesses to identify weaknesses so that we can offer export opportunities and support to those sectors identified as weak?

Yn olaf, clywn rethreg yn aml am dranc gweithgynhyrchu. Pa agweddau ar ein polisi economaidd y gellir eu defnyddio i ymchwilio i ddyfodol busnesau i ganfod gwendidau fel y gallwn gynnig cyfleoedd i allforio a chymorth i’r sectorau hynny y canfyddir eu bod yn wan?

Andrew Davies spoken in English p. 32

Andrew Davies siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 32

We share your concerns for the workforce. When we are faced with job losses, we have contingency plans and work with the agencies accountable to us, and non-devolved bodies such as the Employment Service. However, it would be inappropriate to discuss that at present, as the board of ASW was clear at Monday’s meeting that the business at Tremorfa is viable. It wants to continue production and employ 1,000 people. KPMG, the receivers, is also considering disposal of the company as a going concern. We will do all that we can to help KPMG in that. That must be a major priority, as I have consistently said.

Yr ydym yn rhannu’ch pryderon am y gweithlu. Pan wynebwn golledion swyddi, mae gennym gynlluniau wrth gefn ac yr ydym yn gweithio gyda’r asiantaethau sy’n atebol i ni, a chyrff sydd heb eu datganoli fel y Gwasanaeth Cyflogi. Fodd bynnag, ni fyddai’n briodol trafod hynny ar hyn o bryd, gan fod bwrdd ASW yn bendant yn y cyfarfod ddydd Llun fod y busnes yn Nhremorfa’n hyfyw. Mae’n dymuno parhau i gynhyrchu a chyflogi 1,000 o bobl. Mae KPMG, y derbynwyr, hefyd yn ystyried gwerthu’r cwmni fel busnes gweithredol. Gwnawn bopeth a allwn i helpu KPMG yn hynny o beth. Rhaid i hynny fod yn brif flaenoriaeth, fel yr wyf wedi dweud yn gyson.

On the international position, we fully support the position taken by the UK Government and the EU on retaliatory measures. If the US Government does not back down—and there is no indication that it will—the EU will introduce retaliatory measures. It does not seem that imposition of steel tariffs by the US had a direct effect on ASW, which did not export much to the States. However, the potential threat was that excess production, particularly from eastern Europe, would enter the EU and Wales. Had we joined the euro, companies such as ASW would not have been subject to the adverse exchange rate. Our view has consistently been that we would prefer to be in the euro exchange rate system, as that would give us a more stable exchange rate and much improved trading conditions.

O ran y sefyllfa ryngwladol, yr ydym yn llwyr gefnogi safbwynt Llywodraeth y DU a’r UE ar fesurau ad-daledigol. Os na wnaiff Llywodraeth yr Unol Daleithiau sefyll draw—ac nid oes unrhyw arwydd y gwnaiff hynny—bydd yr UE yn cyflwyno mesurau ad-daledigol. Nid yw’n ymddangos bod gosod tollau ar ddur gan yr Unol Daleithiau wedi effeithio’n uniongyrchol ar ASW, nad oedd yn allforio llawer i’r Unol Daleithiau. Fodd bynnag, y bygythiad posibl oedd y byddai cynnyrch dros ben, yn enwedig o ddwyrain Ewrop, yn dod i’r UE a Chymru. Pe byddem wedi ymuno â’r ewro, ni fyddai cwmnïau fel ASW wedi profi’r cyfraddau cyfnewid niweidiol. Ein barn ni’n gyson yw y byddai’n well gennym fod yn rhan o system cyfradd gyfnewid yr ewro, gan y byddai hynny’n rhoi cyfradd gyfnewid fwy sefydlog i ni ac amodau masnachu gwell o lawer.

On research and development, I reported to the Economic Development Committee yesterday on a significant development, working with the Department of Trade and Industry, namely the establishment of a manufacturing advisory service based at the former Corus research and development facility at Port Talbot. We have retained a real centre of excellence in terms of research and development and an advice and research capacity for the steel industry. We believe there is a strong future for the steel industry in Wales. The number of its employees is dramatically reduced, but it still plays an important role in our economic and industrial strategies.

O ran ymchwil a datblygu, rhoddais wybod i’r Pwyllgor Datblygu Economaidd ddoe am un datblygiad o bwys, a gafwyd drwy weithio gyda’r Adran Masnach a Diwydiant, sef sefydlu gwasanaeth ymgynghorol gweithgynhyrchu wedi’i leoli yng nghyn waith ymchwil a datblygu Corus ym Mhort Talbot. Yr ydym wedi cadw canolfan o wir ragoriaeth o ran ymchwil a datblygu a chapasiti cynghori ac ymchwil i’r diwydiant dur. Credwn fod dyfodol cadarn i’r diwydiant dur yng Nghymru. Mae nifer ei weithwyr yn llai o lawer, ond mae’n dal i chwarae rhan bwysig yn ein strategaethau economaidd a diwydiannol.

Owen John Thomas spoken in English p. 33

Owen John Thomas siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 33

This is a bizarre situation. Here is a steel company, making a product for which there is great demand and which is essential to produce hundreds of different commodities. It has the skills and everything else that is needed. As you said, with financial support, this company’s outlook would be sound, yet it is facing closure. It seems to me an argument for a stronger voice for Wales in Europe, and for a stronger form of government. As a Cardiffian, I am well aware of this works’ history and I have known many people who have worked in it and who work in it now. It is part of the capital’s culture and it will make a huge difference if it goes. This is a basic and sound industry. The code of practice on state aid was not discussed by anyone representing Wales or with her interests in mind. That stresses the weakness of our form of government. You state that the code of practice does not allow financial support. However, there is some uncertainty about that in your written statement, as David Melding pointed out. You say that direct financial aid is not permitted, but would indirect aid in the form of a favourable taxation package for a potential buyer, be permitted? If so, will you pursue that? You also mention in your statement that you will continue to hold talks and take action throughout the week, and you mention in The Western Mail that you are in discussions with a likely buyer. Will you enlarge on that?

Mae hon yn sefyllfa ryfedd. Dyma gwmni dur, sy’n gwneud cynnyrch y mae galw mawr amdano ac sy’n hanfodol er mwyn cynhyrchu cannoedd o wahanol nwyddau. Mae’n meddu ar y sgiliau a phopeth arall sydd ei angen. Fel y dywedasoch, o gael cefnogaeth ariannol, byddai dyfodol y cwmni hwn yn gadarn, ac eto mae’n wynebu cael ei gau. Mae’n ymddangos i mi’n ddadl dros gael llais cryfach i Gymru yn Ewrop, a thros ffurf gryfach ar lywodraeth. Fel un o Gaerdydd, yr wyf yn ymwybodol iawn o hanes y gwaith hwn ac yr wyf yn adnabod llawer a weithiodd yno ac sy’n gweithio yno’n awr. Mae’n rhan o ddiwylliant y brifddinas a bydd gwahaniaeth aruthrol os bydd yn cau. Diwydiant sylfaenol a chadarn yw hwn. Ni thrafodwyd y cod ymarfer ar gymorth gwladol gan neb a gynrychiolai Gymru neu a ddaliai ei buddiannau mewn cof. Mae hynny’n pwysleisio gwendid ein dull o lywodraeth. Dywedwch nad yw’r cod ymarfer yn caniatáu cymorth ariannol. Fodd bynnag, mae peth ansicrwydd am hynny yn eich datganiad ysgrifenedig, fel y nododd David Melding. Dywedwch na chaniateir cymorth ariannol uniongyrchol, ond a ganiateid cymorth anuniongyrchol ar ffurf pecyn trethiant ffafriol i brynwr posibl? Os felly, a wnewch fynd ar drywydd hynny? Yr ydych hefyd yn dweud yn eich datganiad y byddwch yn parhau i gynnal trafodaethau a chymryd camau drwy’r wythnos, ac yr ydych yn dweud yn The Western Mail eich bod mewn trafodaethau â phrynwr tebygol. A wnewch ymhelaethu ar hynny?

Andrew Davies spoken in English p. 34

Andrew Davies siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 34

Any Government, in Wales or Westminster, would have been ultimately powerless to prevent this situation, as it involved a private company dealing with private financial institutions. The Assembly and Westminster Governments did everything possible to try to avoid this situation, including brokering Monday’s meeting, which comprised nine hours of discussions with the company, the financiers, the potential purchaser, the banks, and the credit insurers. The Government could do no more. The financial assistance that any level of government can provide is severely restricted. I assure you that the National Assembly for Wales, the Department of Trade and Industry, and the Treasury, explored all avenues for providing financial assistance or easing the company’s financial position. However, the company ultimately decided to go into receivership because the banks and credit insurers were unable to come to an agreement. The company had no option under company law other than to call in the receivers because its loan facilities were not going to be extended. Therefore, you are mistaken in suggesting that the Government could have done more. There is nothing more that the Government, even at European member state level, could have done. To suggest otherwise is pure fantasy.

Buasai unrhyw Lywodraeth, yng Nghymru neu yn San Steffan, yn analluog yn y pen draw i atal y sefyllfa hon, gan ei bod yn ymwneud â chwmni preifat sy’n delio â sefydliadau ariannol preifat. Fe wnaeth Llywodraethau’r Cynulliad a San Steffan bopeth a allent i geisio osgoi’r sefyllfa hon, gan gynnwys cyfryngu yn y cyfarfod ar ddydd Llun, a olygodd naw awr o drafodaethau gyda’r cwmni, y cyllidwyr, y prynwr posibl, y banciau, a’r yswirwyr credyd. Ni allai’r Llywodraeth wneud dim mwy. Mae cyfyngiad llym ar y cymorth ariannol y gall unrhyw lefel o lywodraeth ei ddarparu. Yr wyf yn eich sicrhau bod Cynulliad Cenedlaethol Cymru, yr Adran Masnach a Diwydiant, a’r Trysorlys, wedi ymchwilio i bob dull posibl o ddarparu cymorth ariannol neu o liniaru sefyllfa ariannol y cwmni. Fodd bynnag, yn y diwedd penderfynodd y cwmni fynd i law’r derbynnydd gan na allai’r banciau a’r yswirwyr credyd ddod i gytundeb. Nid oedd dewis gan y cwmni dan gyfraith cwmnïau heblaw galw am y derbynwyr am na châi ei gyfleusterau benthyca eu hymestyn. Felly, yr ydych yn camgymryd wrth awgrymu y gallai’r Llywodraeth fod wedi gwneud rhagor. Nid oes dim rhagor y gallasai’r Llywodraeth fod wedi ei wneud, hyd yn oed ar lefel aelod wladwriaethau Ewrop. Ffantasi pur yw awgrymu fel arall.

I agree that ASW provides a good product, which is used by the construction industry in major new projects such as terminal 5 at Heathrow and the rail link to the channel tunnel. If the company ceases production, much of that product must be imported, which is another cause for concern. However, the Government has done all it can to try to avoid this situation, and we greatly regret the decision of the banks and financial institutions.

Cytunaf fod ASW yn darparu cynnyrch da, a ddefnyddir gan y diwydiant adeiladu mewn prosiectau mawr newydd fel gorsaf awyr 5 yn Heathrow a’r cyswllt rheilffordd â thwnnel y sianel. Os bydd y cwmni’n peidio â chynhyrchu, bydd yn rhaid mewnforio llawer o’r cynnyrch hwnnw, sy’n destun pryder arall. Fodd bynnag, mae’r Llywodraeth wedi gwneud popeth yn ei allu i geisio osgoi’r sefyllfa hon, ac mae penderfyniad y banciau a’r sefydliadau ariannol yn destun gofid mawr i ni.

Alun Cairns spoken in English p. 35

Alun Cairns siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 35

I join with those who have expressed sympathy to the workers and those directly affected by the announcements. We must not forget that there are 1,200 families now facing uncertainty. These are well paid, high-value jobs, which contribute to the Welsh economy, and, therefore, the effect of the losses is wider than that on the 1,200 families directly affected.

Ymunaf â’r rhai sydd wedi mynegi cydymdeimlad â’r gweithwyr a’r rhai a effeithiwyd yn uniongyrchol gan y cyhoeddiadau. Rhaid inni beidio ag anghofio bod 1,200 o deuluoedd sy’n wynebu ansicrwydd yn awr. Swyddi o werth uchel â thâl da yw’r rhain sy’n cyfrannu i economi Cymru a, gan hynny, mae effaith y colledion yn ehangach na’r effaith ar y 1,200 o deuluoedd a effeithir yn uniongyrchol.

It is strange that the Minister says that the Government is powerless; that is not correct. The Government can take action. It has a wider economic and political responsibility and I am shocked and disappointed that Mick Bates has jumped on the euro as the only reason for the job losses. We do not want to hear that sort of argument at this time; the situation is not as simple as Mick Bates suggests. I hope that you, Minister, will join me in condemning such calls at this time because increased taxes, such as the climate change levy, will also have played their part in making it more difficult for Allied Steel and Wire to operate.

Mae’n rhyfedd bod y Gweinidog yn dweud bod y Llywodraeth yn ddi-rym; nid yw hynny’n gywir. Fe all y Llywodraeth weithredu. Mae ganddi gyfrifoldeb economaidd a gwleidyddol ehangach ac yr wyf wedi fy synnu a’m siomi am fod Mick Bates wedi neidio ar yr ewro fel yr unig reswm dros y colledion swyddi. Nid ydym am glywed dadl o’r fath ar yr adeg hon; nid yw’r sefyllfa mor syml ag y mae Mick Bates yn ei awgrymu. Gobeithiaf y byddwch chi, Weinidog, yn ymuno â mi i gollfarnu galwadau o’r fath ar yr adeg hon gan y bydd trethi uwch, fel y dreth newid hinsawdd, wedi chwarae eu rhan hefyd i’w gwneud yn anoddach i Allied Steel and Wire weithredu.

You claim that the Assembly and Westminster Governments have been powerless. When did you first contact ASW about the climate change levy and its impact on the company? I spoke to ASW some 18 months ago, and the Assembly Government had not been in contact with it at that time. I reject the assertion that the Assembly Government has been powerless.

Yr ydych yn honni bod Llywodraethau’r Cynulliad a San Steffan wedi bod yn ddi-rym. Pa bryd y gwnaethoch gysylltu’n gyntaf ag ASW ynghylch y dreth newid hinsawdd a’i heffaith ar y cwmni? Siaredais i ag ASW tua 18 mis yn ôl, ac nid oedd Llywodraeth y Cynulliad wedi bod mewn cysylltiad ag ef bryd hynny. Gwrthodaf yr haeriad bod Llywodraeth y Cynulliad wedi bod yn ddi-rym.

What requests have you made to the European Commission? The Minister is hiding behind the commission’s steel state aid code. Although that code exists, what requests have been made? We found out last week that during the foot and mouth disease crisis the then Minister for Rural Development had not asked the European Commission for support. I hope that that situation will not be repeated whereby we do not ask how we can support the industry.

Pa geisiadau a wnaethoch i’r Comisiwn Ewropeaidd? Mae’r Gweinidog yn cuddio y tu ôl i god y comisiwn ar gymorth gwladol i’r diwydiant dur. Er bod y cod hwnnw’n bodoli, pa geisiadau a wnaed? Cawsom wybod yr wythnos diwethaf nad oedd y Gweinidog dros Ddatblygu Gwledig bryd hynny wedi gofyn i’r Comisiwn Ewropeaidd am gymorth yn ystod argyfwng clwy’r traed a’r genau. Gobeithiaf na fydd sefyllfa’n codi eto lle nad ydym yn gofyn sut y gallwn gynorthwyo’r diwydiant.

I asked the First Minister on Tuesday how he felt about being the First Minister who presided over the steel industry’s demise in Wales. His response was,

Gofynnais i Brif Weinidog Cymru ddydd Mawrth sut y teimlai ynghylch bod yn Brif Weinidog Cymru a lywyddai dros dranc y diwydiant dur yng Nghymru. Ei ymateb oedd,

‘I do not know when that will take place’.

‘Ni wn pa bryd y digwydd hynny’.

He then suggested that it might happen in 50 years’ time. It is ironic that ASW went into receivership the following day. His response—

Awgrymodd wedyn y gallai ddigwydd ymhen 50 mlynedd. Mae’n eironig bod ASW wedi mynd i law’r derbynnydd y diwrnod wedyn. Ei ymateb—

Dafydd Elis-Thomas The Presiding Officer spoken in English p. 36

Dafydd Elis-Thomas Y Llywydd siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 36

Order. It is not in order for a party spokesperson to quote himself at length.

Trefn. Nid yw mewn trefn i lefarydd plaid ddyfynnu ei eiriau ei hun yn faith.

Alun Cairns spoken in English p. 36

Alun Cairns siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 36

I was quoting the First Minister.

Yr oeddwn yn dyfynnu geiriau Prif Weinidog Cymru.

Dafydd Elis-Thomas The Presiding Officer spoken in English p. 36

Dafydd Elis-Thomas Y Llywydd siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 36

It is not in order either to quote from the Record at length. I called the Member because it is important that constituency Members have a priority to speak on these important issues. I know, having been in a similar situation recently as a constituency Member, how important it is that these Members speak on such matters. However, you must now ask a question.

Nid yw mewn trefn ychwaith ddyfynnu’n faith o’r Cofnod. Gelwais ar yr Aelod am ei bod yn bwysig bod Aelodau etholaeth yn cael blaenoriaeth i siarad am y materion pwysig hyn. Yr wyf yn gwybod, a minnau wedi bod mewn sefyllfa debyg yn ddiweddar fel Aelod etholaeth, mor bwysig ydyw i’r Aelodau hyn siarad am faterion o’r fath. Fodd bynnag, rhaid ichi ofyn cwestiwn yn awr.

Alun Cairns spoken in English p. 37

Alun Cairns siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 37

I accept your guidance, Llywydd. Does the Minister believe that the First Minister’s comments on Tuesday were misjudged and misguided?

Derbyniaf eich cyfarwyddyd, Lywydd. A yw’r Gweinidog yn credu bod sylwadau Prif Weinidog Cymru ddydd Mawrth yn annoeth ac yn gyfeiliornus?

Andrew Davies spoken in English p. 37

Andrew Davies siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 37

I regret the tone of Alun’s comments. I have made statements on redundancies in the past and Alun Cairns always adopts the wrong tone.

Mae naws sylwadau Alun yn destun gofid i mi. Yr wyf wedi gwneud datganiadau am ddiswyddiadau yn y gorffennol ac mae Alun Cairns bob amser yn mabwysiadu goslef anaddas.

The Deputy First Minister and Minister for Rural Development and Wales Abroad, when he was Minister for Economic Development, met ASW company representatives in February 2001. In March 2002, I met Graham Mackenzie—one of the first meetings under my new portfolio—and the First Minister has had meetings with the company. I have also had telephone conversations with ASW over many months. We have been working with the company to avoid this situation. Ultimately market forces are responsible. The Conservative Party feels passionately about market forces and when in Government, it privatised the steel industry. You talk about the exchange rate, Alun, and you want to retain the existing situation, but if we had adopted the euro, ASW would have had a more favourable financial climate in which to work.

Cyfarfu Dirprwy Brif Weinidog Cymru a’r Gweinidog dros Ddatblygu Gwledig a Chymru Dramor, pan oedd yn Weinidog dros Ddatblygu Economaidd, â chynrychiolwyr cwmni ASW yn Chwefror 2001. Ym Mawrth 2002, cyfarfûm i â Graham Mackenzie—un o’r cyfarfodydd cyntaf dan fy mhortffolio newydd—ac mae Prif Weinidog Cymru wedi cael cyfarfodydd â’r cwmni. Yr wyf hefyd wedi cael sgyrsiau dros y teleffon gydag ASW dros fisoedd lawer. Buom yn gweithio gyda’r cwmni i osgoi’r sefyllfa hon. Grymoedd y farchnad sy’n gyfrifol yn y pen draw. Mae’r Blaid Geidwadol yn teimlo’n angerddol ynghylch grymoedd y farchnad a phan oedd mewn Llywodraeth, gwnaeth breifateiddio’r diwydiant dur. Yr ydych yn sôn am y gyfradd gyfnewid, Alun, ac yr ydych am gadw’r sefyllfa bresennol, ond pe byddem wedi mabwysiadu’r ewro, byddai ASW wedi cael hinsawdd ariannol fwy ffafriol i weithio ynddi.

I spent nine hours in a meeting on Monday with ASW representatives, the financial institutions involved and credit insurers, Gerling NCM. National Westminster Bank, the Royal Bank of Scotland and Lloyds TSB failed to come to an agreement with Gerling NCM. It was ultimately those private sector institutions that failed to support ASW any further. This caused ASW to reluctantly call in the receivers. I state categorically that neither the Assembly Government nor the Westminster Government could have possibly done any more to prevent this sad event occurring.

Treuliais naw awr mewn cyfarfod ddydd Llun gyda chynrychiolwyr ASW, y sefydliadau ariannol sy’n gysylltiedig a’r yswirwyr credyd, Gerling NCM. Methodd National Westminster Bank, Royal Bank of Scotland a Lloyds TSB â dod i gytundeb â Gerling NCM. Yn y pen draw, y sefydliadau sector preifat hynny a fethodd â chefnogi ASW ymhellach. Parodd hynny i ASW alw o’i anfodd am y derbynwyr. Dywedaf yn bendant na allasai Llywodraeth y Cynulliad na Llywodraeth San Steffan wneud dim yn rhagor i rwystro’r digwyddiad trist hwn.

Datganiad ar Ofal Lliniarol

Statement on Palliative Care

Jane Hutt The Minister for Health and Social Services spoken in English p. 38

Jane Hutt Y Gweinidog dros Iechyd a Gwasanaethau Cymdeithasol siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 38

On 5 February, I made a statement on our approach to palliative care and signalled the intention to produce a palliative care strategic framework and to consult on it widely. I have now approved the final draft for publication and circulation in Wales for the full consultation period of three months. I acknowledge the help of the Welsh Association for Hospice and Specialist Palliative Care in producing the draft.

Ar 5 Chwefror, gwneuthum ddatganiad ar ein dull o ymdrin â gofal lliniarol a nodais y bwriad i gynhyrchu fframwaith strategol gofal lliniarol ac i ymgynghori arno’n eang. Yr wyf bellach wedi cymeradwyo’r drafft terfynol i’w gyhoeddi a’i ddosbarthu yng Nghymru ar gyfer y cyfnod ymgynghori llawn o dri mis. Cydnabyddaf gymorth Cymdeithas Gofal Lliniarol Arbenigol a Hosibisau Cymru wrth gynhyrchu’r drafft.

I mentioned some of the issues that the early drafts had identified in my earlier statement. The final drafts include these, but adds to and expands on them. The paper brings together existing guidance, promotes good practice and makes recommendations on developing services. We intend to provide a strategic framework that will become the blueprint for excellent palliative care services, available uniformly across Wales. The strategy is a 10-year plan to overcome deficiencies in the system and bring all services up to a uniformly high standard. It is recommended that an implementation group be established, drawn from all relevant sectors, to prioritise recommendations within the strategy, to cost them, and to work with officials to make the case for funding through our normal budgetary process.

Cyfeiriais at rai o’r materion yr oedd y drafftiau cynharach wedi’u canfod yn fy natganiad cynharach. Mae’r drafftiau terfynol yn cynnwys y rhain, ond ychwanegir atynt ac ymhelaethir arnynt. Mae’r papur yn crynhoi’r cyfarwyddyd presennol, yn hyrwyddo arfer da ac yn gwneud argymhellion ynghylch datblygu gwasanaethau. Bwriadwn ddarparu fframwaith strategol a fydd yn lasbrint i wasanaethau gofal lliniarol rhagorol, a fydd ar gael yn unffurf ledled Cymru. Mae’r strategaeth yn gynllun 10 mlynedd i ddatrys diffygion yn y system a chodi’r holl wasanaethau i safon uchel unffurf. Argymhellir sefydlu grŵp gweithredu, ac ynddo aelodau o’r holl sectorau perthnasol, i flaenoriaethu’r argymhellion yn y strategaeth, eu prisio, ac i weithio gyda’r swyddogion i gyflwyno’r achos dros gyllid drwy ein proses gyllidebol arferol.

In Wales, one in three of the population will get cancer and one in four will die from the disease. However, palliative care is not only about cancer. The value of palliative care and the management of non-malignant incurable conditions are being increasingly recognised. Chronic cardiac and neurological conditions can cause complex symptoms, which need specialist palliative care interventions. Palliative care in the case of non-malignant, life-limiting conditions is particularly important for children; adults and children in this situation may need such specialist care over many months, or even years.

Yng Nghymru, bydd un ym mhob tri o’r boblogaeth yn cael canser a bydd un ym mhob pedwar yn marw o’r clefyd. Fodd bynnag, mae gofal lliniarol yn ymwneud â mwy na chanser. Mae cydnabyddiaeth gynyddol o werth gofal lliniarol a rheoli anhwylderau anghanseraidd nad oes modd eu gwella. Mae anhwylderau cardïaidd a niwrolegol cronig yn gallu achosi symptomau cymhleth, sy’n gofyn am ymyriadau gofal lliniarol arbenigol. Mae gofal lliniarol yn achos anhwylderau anghanseraidd sy’n cyfyngu ar fywyd yn arbennig o bwysig i blant; bydd ar oedolion a phlant yn y sefyllfa hon angen gofal arbenigol o’r fath am fisoedd neu flynyddoedd lawer, o bosibl.

I listed some of the principles that are beginning to emerge from the early work on the strategy in my previous statement. These have been added to and strengthened, and I will describe them in full. Every person, irrespective of age, with a life-limiting condition should be able to receive palliative care that is appropriate for their assessed need. All healthcare professionals should incorporate basic palliative care in their approach to clinical practice, and know when to call in specialist palliative care colleagues to improve the quality of life for patients. Every healthcare commissioning body should ensure that there is a clear strategy for the delivery of palliative care services for the defined population, that the resources are available to meet the plan, and that care providers meet agreed standards of delivery. Every healthcare commissioning body should also ensure that the NHS and voluntary sector providers can work together in developing and delivering services. Every commissioner and provider of palliative care should ensure that patients and families are consulted on the quality and nature of services. The three cancer services network that has been established in Wales has a duty to ensure that specialist palliative care services are incorporated into all aspects of service provision. The network also has a duty to foster research and education in palliative care.

Rhestrais rai o’r egwyddorion sy’n dechrau dod i’r golwg yn y gwaith cynnar ar y strategaeth yn fy natganiad blaenorol. Ychwanegwyd at y rhain a’u cryfhau a byddaf yn eu disgrifio’n llawn. Dylai pawb, beth bynnag fo’i oed, sydd ag anhwylder sy’n cyfyngu ar ei fywyd, allu cael gofal lliniarol sy’n briodol i’r angen a aseswyd. Dylai pob gweithiwr iechyd proffesiynol gynnwys gofal lliniarol sylfaenol yn ei ddull ymarfer clinigol, a gwybod pa bryd i alw ar gydweithwyr gofal lliniarol arbenigol i wella ansawdd bywyd cleifion. Dylai pob corff comisiynu gofal iechyd sicrhau bod strategaeth eglur ar gyfer darparu gwasanaethau gofal lliniarol i’r boblogaeth a ddiffiniwyd, bod digon o adnoddau ar gael i gyflawni’r cynllun, a bod y darparwyr gofal yn cyrraedd safonau darparu cytunedig. Dylai pob corff comisiynu gofal iechyd sicrhau hefyd fod darparwyr y GIG a’r sector gwirfoddol yn gallu cydweithio wrth ddatblygu a darparu gwasanaethau. Dylai pob comisiynydd a darparwr gofal lliniarol sicrhau yr ymgynghorir â’r cleifion a’u teuluoedd ar ansawdd a natur y gwasanaethau. Dyletswydd rhwydwaith y tri gwasanaeth canser a sefydlwyd yng Nghymru yw sicrhau bod gwasanaethau gofal lliniarol arbenigol wedi’u hymgorffori ym mhob agwedd ar ddarparu gwasanaethau. Mae dyletswydd ar y rhwydwaith hefyd feithrin ymchwil ac addysg mewn gofal lliniarol.

The draft makes a strong plea for the end of barriers between different agencies, particularly between secondary and primary care and statutory and voluntary sector bodies. This is a constant theme in every aspect of health and social services and I am pleased that the paper will underpin this central message. I stress again the need for the statutory and voluntary sectors to work together, in particular to secure the best use of hospice services, where much good work is done jointly, but where better collaboration could improve services. The paper sets out proposed standards for specialist palliative care, which cover issues such as commissioning, clinical guidelines, staff resources, education and research, and support for carers and patients.

Mae apêl daer yn y drafft dros dorri’r ffiniau rhwng gwahanol asiantaethau, yn enwedig rhwng gofal eilaidd a sylfaenol a chyrff y sectorau statudol a gwirfoddol. Mae hon yn thema gyson ym mhob agwedd ar iechyd a gwasanaethau cymdeithasol ac yr wyf yn falch y bydd y papur yn ategu’r neges ganolog hon. Pwysleisiaf eto’r angen i’r sectorau statudol a gwirfoddol gydweithio, yn enwedig i sicrhau’r defnydd gorau o wasanaethau hosbis, lle y gwneir llawer o waith da ar y cyd, ond lle y gallai cydweithio gwell wella’r gwasanaethau. Mae’r papur hwn yn nodi safonau arfaethedig i ofal lliniarol arbenigol, sy’n ymdrin â materion fel comisiynu, canllawiau clinigol, adnoddau staff, addysg ac ymchwil, a chymorth i ofalwyr a chleifion.

I am aware of the difficulties that have arisen in Llanelli in relation to funding and commissioning the Tŷ Bryngwyn Hospice. I am also aware of the commitment given by the NHS trust at an early stage in developing the concept of the hospice. I have always emphasised partnership solutions to the challenges that we face in the NHS in Wales. Additional funding has already extended the day care facilities at Tŷ Bryngwyn and in other parts of Carmarthenshire. We now need to find a resolution that puts together a shared response from the Carmarthenshire NHS Trust, the local charitable trust and the Assembly, to ensure that the hospice can open. In order to assist that process, I am pleased to announce a £70,000 contribution from the Assembly to get this partnership approach into action. I expect this to be matched in part by the NHS trust and local fundraising contributions.

Yr wyf yn ymwybodol o’r anawsterau a gododd yn Llanelli o ran ariannu a chomisiynu Hosbis Tŷ Bryngwyn. Yr wyf hefyd yn ymwybodol o ymrwymiad cynnar yr ymddiriedolaeth GIG wrth ddatblygu cysyniad yr hosbis. Yr wyf bob amser wedi pwysleisio atebion drwy bartneriaeth i’r heriau yr ydym yn eu hwynebu yn y GIG yng Nghymru. Mae cyllid ychwanegol wedi bod yn fodd eisoes i ehangu’r cyfleusterau gofal dydd yn Tŷ Bryngwyn ac mewn rhannau eraill o sir Gaerfyrddin. Yn awr rhaid inni ddod o hyd i ateb sy’n cyfuno ymateb ar y cyd gan Ymddiriedolaeth GIG Sir Gaerfyrddin, yr ymddiriedolaeth elusennol leol a’r Cynulliad, i sicrhau y gall yr hosbis agor. Er mwyn hybu’r broses honno, yr wyf yn falch o gyhoeddi cyfraniad o £70,000 gan y Cynulliad i roi’r dull partneriaeth hwn ar waith. Disgwyliaf y ceir cyfraniadau a fydd yn cyfateb yn rhannol i hynny gan yr ymddiriedolaeth GIG a thrwy godi arian yn lleol.

Depending upon the outcome of the Assembly Government’s budget planning round, I hope to be able to announce longer-term arrangements for hospice support in the autumn. I am pleased that the new opportunities fund has launched the bidding process for the £4.5 million fund that they are donating to palliative care services in Wales. This one-off funding is aimed at capital projects and should provide a welcome boost to those seeking to upgrade facilities.

Yn ôl canlyniad cylch cynllunio cyllideb Llywodraeth y Cynulliad, gobeithiaf allu cyhoeddi trefniadau tymor hwy i gynorthwyo hosbisau yn yr hydref. Yr wyf yn falch bod y gronfa cyfleoedd newydd wedi lansio’r broses ymgeisio am £4.5 miliwn o gyllid y mae’n ei roi at wasanaethau gofal lliniarol yng Nghymru. Mae’r cyllid un-tro hwn wedi’i anelu at brosiectau cyfalaf a dylai fod yn hwb derbyniol i’r rhai sy’n ceisio gwella eu cyfleusterau.

The strategic framework is being produced during a period of great change for the NHS in Wales. That will make planning and implementing our recommendations even more challenging. These problems must not be allowed to hinder the strategy’s progress. The implementation team will play a key role in ensuring that we meet the challenge of the changes.

Cynhyrchir y fframwaith strategol yn ystod cyfnod o newid mawr i’r GIG yng Nghymru. Bydd hynny’n golygu bod cynllunio a gweithredu ein hargymhellion yn fwy ymestynnol byth. Rhaid peidio â chaniatáu i’r problemau hyn lesteirio cynnydd y strategaeth. Bydd y tîm gweithredu’n chwarae rhan allweddol wrth sicrhau ein bod yn ateb her y newidiadau.

David Lloyd spoken in English p. 40

David Lloyd siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 40

I declare an interest as a general practitioner. Palliative care services should be an integral part of the NHS, and not peripheral as they often seem to be these days, in the same way that services provided at the beginning of life are integrated. The whole vision of the palliative care strategy requires strategic organisation, otherwise provision is patchy. The provision of palliative care services throughout Wales continues to be patchy. However, to ensure strategic organisation, palliative care needs secure, long-term core funding. Funding hospices is difficult in many areas of Wales.

Datganaf fuddiant fel meddyg teulu. Dylai gwasanaethau gofal lliniarol fod yn rhan annatod o’r GIG, ac nid yn ymylol iddo, fel y mae’n aml yn ymddangos eu bod y dyddiau hyn, yn yr un modd ag y caiff y gwasanaethau ar ddechrau bywyd eu hintegreiddio. Mae holl weledigaeth y strategaeth gofal lliniarol yn gofyn am drefniadaeth strategol, neu fel arall bydd y ddarpariaeth yn fylchog. Mae’r ddarpariaeth o wasanaethau gofal lliniarol ledled Cymru’n dal i fod yn fylchog. Fodd bynnag, i sicrhau trefnu strategol, rhaid i ofal lliniarol gael cyllid craidd hirdymor a sicr. Mae’n anodd ariannu hosbisau mewn llawer o ardaloedd yng Nghymru.

Your statement, Minister, was a description of the process of developing a palliative care strategy rather than the strategy itself. I will highlight a few points that will hopefully appear in a palliative care strategy at some stage. Clearly, the concept of a palliative care strategy is welcome. It should help to reduce the deficiencies in provision in many areas of Wales. However, we need more details about the proposed framework, for example, on its timetable or provision. What resources will be available? I noted that you said towards the end of your statement that you would be able to announce in the autumn longer-term arrangements for hospice support. Within a palliative care framework, as you have already mentioned, funding is required for many aspects, not only hospice support. For example, there is currently a lack of specialised nurses, and we need more doctors to specialise in palliative care. There should also be more emphasis on paediatric palliative care, as well as fully integrated multidisciplinary support, all of which will require significant resources and additional staffing levels. Therefore, there are significant resource implications for such a strategy, and there is not only a need for extra money for hospice support, which you will announce in the autumn, however welcome that may be.

Yr oedd eich datganiad, Weinidog, yn ddisgrifiad o’r broses o ddatblygu strategaeth gofal lliniarol yn hytrach na’r strategaeth ei hun. Tynnaf sylw at ychydig o bwyntiau y gobeithiaf y byddant yn ymddangos mewn strategaeth gofal lliniarol ryw bryd. Wrth gwrs, mae’r cysyniad o strategaeth i ofal lliniarol i’w groesawu. Dylai fod o gymorth i leihau’r diffygion yn y ddarpariaeth mewn llawer o ardaloedd yng Nghymru. Er hynny, mae arnom angen rhagor o fanylion am y fframwaith arfaethedig, er enghraifft, ar ei amserlen neu ddarparu. Pa adnoddau a fydd ar gael? Nodais eich bod wedi dweud tua diwedd eich datganiad y byddech yn gallu cyhoeddi yn yr hydref drefniadau tymor hwy i gynorthwyo hosbisau. Mewn fframwaith gofal lliniarol, fel y dywedasoch eisoes, mae angen cyllid i lawer o agweddau, nid rhoi cymorth i hosbisau’n unig. Er enghraifft, mae prinder nyrsys arbenigol ar hyn o bryd, ac mae arnom angen rhagor o feddygon sy’n arbenigo mewn gofal lliniarol. Dylid bod mwy o bwyslais hefyd ar ofal lliniarol pediatrig, yn ogystal â chymorth amlddisgyblaethol cwbl integredig, a bydd hyn oll yn gofyn am adnoddau sylweddol a staff ychwanegol. Felly, mae goblygiadau sylweddol o ran adnoddau mewn strategaeth o’r fath, nid yn unig o ran yr angen am arian ychwanegol i gynorthwyo hosbisau, y byddwch yn ei gyhoeddi yn yr hydref, er mor dderbyniol y gallai hynny fod.

As in many other areas, not only the NHS but palliative care itself is changing. Tŷ Olwen hospice in Swansea is having to close temporarily because of staffing shortages, which I understand will soon be addressed. However, the nature of palliative care is changing because it will be increasingly taking place in the community. A palliative care strategy also needs to address those issues. Do you agree that we need to consider palliative care development innovatively and not simply fossilise current provision? Will you expand on the importance of patient support and bereavement services in this regard? Will you indicate how much resources you would earmark for bereavement services?

Yn yr un modd ag mewn meysydd eraill, nid y GIG yn unig sy’n newid, ond gofal lliniarol ei hun. Mae hosbis Tŷ Olwen yn Abertawe’n gorfod cau dros dro oherwydd prinder staff, a deallaf y caiff hynny sylw cyn hir. Fodd bynnag, mae natur gofal lliniarol yn newid gan y bydd yn digwydd fwyfwy yn y gymuned. Rhaid i strategaeth gofal lliniarol ymdrin â’r materion hynny hefyd. A ydych yn cytuno bod angen inni ystyried datblygu gofal lliniarol mewn modd arloesol yn hytrach na ffosileiddio’r ddarpariaeth bresennol? A wnewch ymhelaethu ar bwysigrwydd gwasanaethau galar a chymorth i gleifion yn hyn o beth? A wnewch nodi faint o adnoddau y byddech yn eu clustnodi ar gyfer gwasanaethau galar?

The comments on conditions other than cancer are welcome. There is an idea that palliative care only applies to cancer, but there are various life-limiting terminal and palliative conditions, such as motor neuron disease and severe strokes, which require the same sort of long-term intensive nursing care. Will you expand on how you think palliative care will be developed to deal with those types of conditions?

Mae’r sylwadau am anhwylderau heblaw canser i’w croesawu. Ceir syniad mai dim ond i ganser y mae gofal lliniarol yn berthnasol, ond mae amryw o anhwylderau terfynol a lliniarol sy’n cyfyngu ar fywyd, fel clefyd niwronau motor a strociau difrifol, sy’n galw am yr un math o ofal nyrsio dwys tymor hir. A wnewch ymhelaethu ar sut yr ydych yn rhagweld gofal lliniarol yn cael ei ddatblygu i ymdrin ag anhwylderau o’r fath?

Ultimately any strategy, however welcome, remains an unfulfilled wishlist without significant additional resources. That is particularly trus for palliative care, which seems to have been neglected for so long. I look forward to significant budget announcements in the autumn.

Yn y pen draw, mae unrhyw strategaeth, ni waeth pa mor dderbyniol y mae, yn aros yn rhestr ddymuniadau heb ei chyflawni os na cheir adnoddau ychwanegol sylweddol. Mae hynny’n arbennig o wir am ofal lliniarol, yr ymddengys ei fod wedi’i esgeuluso cyhyd. Edrychaf ymlaen at gyhoeddiadau cyllideb sylweddol yn yr hydref.

Jane Hutt spoken in English p. 42

Jane Hutt siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 42

I have outlined the principles of the national strategic framework for developing excellence in palliative care services across Wales. This is the start of the process, because we will now go out to consultation on this document for three months. You know that these principles are based on a multi-agency, multidisciplinary approach, which is already happening in many parts of Wales. We have much good practice, but provision is patchy. The issues and needs that you have identified must be addressed, particularly in terms of the difficulties encountered by the hospice in Morriston due to staff shortages. These issues must be tackled not only in the palliative care strategy and our budget planning arrangements for such a strategy, but also in our workforce planning arrangements, which include the provision of 700 extra doctors and 6,000 additional nurses. As you know Dai, we are seeking more detail on specialities and need in NHS trusts. That will be informed by the strategic frameworks that we are developing, the national service framework, and this palliative care strategy. We must ensure that we send a strong message that this is about people with life-limiting conditions, irrespective of age, being able to receive palliative care that is appropriate to their assessed need. It is an all-inclusive strategy and approach, for which we have to thank the Wales Association for Hospice and Specialist Palliative Care. It has worked hard, along with the statutory and voluntary sectors, to ensure that this is not about fossilising current services or simply recognising part of the palliative care community. Hospices are a part of the issue. Primary care through to secondary and palliative care arrangements—in the community and in hospitals—are key to this strategy. I have faith that the implementation group will take us forward. However, we must ensure that everyone engages in the consultation process so that the issues raised here are vigorously discussed. That will help to guide us as we move into implementation and budget planning.

Yr wyf wedi amlinellu egwyddorion y fframwaith strategol cenedlaethol i ddatblygu rhagoriaeth mewn gwasanaethau gofal lliniarol ledled Cymru. Dyma ddechrau’r broses, gan y byddwn yn ymgynghori’n awr ar y ddogfen hon am dri mis. Gwyddoch fod yr egwyddorion hyn wedi’u seilio ar ddull gweithredu amlasiantaethol, amlddisgyblaethol, sydd eisoes ar waith mewn llawer man yng Nghymru. Mae gennym lawer o arfer da, ond mae’r ddarpariaeth yn fylchog. Rhaid ymdrin â’r materion a’r anghenion yr ydych wedi’u nodi, yn enwedig yng nghyd-destun yr anawsterau a brofir gan yr hosbis yn Nhreforys oherwydd prinder staff. Rhaid ymdrin â’r materion hyn nid yn unig yn y strategaeth gofal lliniarol a’n trefniadau cynllunio cyllideb i strategaeth o’r fath, ond hefyd yn ein trefniadau cynllunio gweithlu, sy’n cynnwys darparu 700 o feddygon ychwanegol a 6,000 o nyrsys ychwanegol. Fel y gwyddoch, Dai, yr ydym yn ceisio rhagor o fanylion am arbenigaethau ac anghenion yn yr ymddiriedolaethau GIG. Caiff hynny ei fwydo gan y fframweithiau strategol yr ydym yn eu datblygu, y fframwaith gwasanaeth cenedlaethol, a’r strategaeth gofal lliniarol hon. Rhaid inni sicrhau ein bod yn cyfleu neges gryf i’r perwyl bod hyn yn ymwneud â gallu pobl sydd ag anhwylderau sy’n cyfyngu ar fywyd, beth bynnag fo’u hoed, i dderbyn gofal lliniarol sy’n briodol i’r angen a aseswyd. Mae’n strategaeth ac yn ddull gweithredu hollgynhwysol, ac i Gymdeithas Hosbis a Gofal Lliniarol Arbenigol Cymru y mae’r diolch am hynny. Mae wedi gweithio’n galed, ynghyd â’r sectorau statudol a gwirfoddol, i sicrhau nad yw hyn yn golygu ffosileiddio’r gwasanaethau presennol neu gydnabod rhan o’r gymuned gofal lliniarol yn unig. Mae hosbisau’n rhan o’r mater dan sylw. Mae trefniadau gofal sylfaenol drwodd at ofal eilaidd a lliniarol—yn y gymuned ac mewn ysbytai—yn allweddol i’r strategaeth hon. Yr wyf yn ffyddiog y bydd y grŵp gweithredu’n ein tywys ymlaen. Er hynny, rhaid inni sicrhau bod pawb yn cymryd rhan yn y broses ymgynghori fel bod y materion a godir yn cael eu trafod yn egnïol. Bydd hynny o gymorth i’n harwain wrth inni symud tuag at weithredu a chynllunio’r gyllideb.

Delyth Evans spoken in English p. 43

Delyth Evans siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 43

I warmly welcome your statement and the efforts that you are making to drive this important aspect of care forward. I particularly welcome the additional funding for Tŷ Bryngwyn in Llanelli. Residents in that area will welcome that. I hope that the trust will match the contribution following your discussions with its representatives. Can you tell us today what this new money will mean in terms of opening up beds at the hospital? You will be aware that the facilities there are excellent and that we are keen to see that commitment fulfilled. Therefore, what will this money mean in terms of opening up beds? Is it a one-off contribution or will it be ongoing?

Yr wyf yn mawr groesawu’ch datganiad a’ch ymdrechion i hyrwyddo’r agwedd bwysig hon ar ofal. Croesawaf yn benodol y cyllid ychwanegol i Dŷ Bryngwyn yn Llanelli. Bydd trigolion yr ardal honno’n croesawu hynny. Gobeithiaf y bydd yr ymddiriedolaeth yn cyfrannu swm cyfatebol ar ôl eich trafodaethau â’i chynrychiolwyr. A allwch ddweud wrthym heddiw beth fydd yr arian hwn yn ei olygu o ran darparu gwelyau yn yr ysbyty? Byddwch yn ymwybodol bod cyfleusterau rhagorol yno a’n bod yn awyddus i weld cyflawni’r ymrwymiad hwnnw. Gan hynny, beth fydd yr arian hwn yn ei olygu o ran darparu gwelyau? A yw’n gyfraniad un-tro ynteu a fydd yn barhaol?

Jane Hutt spoken in English p. 44

Jane Hutt siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 44

I am concerned that the full service, which has been supported by the people of Llanelli, is opened up and brought into being because of the needs of the area and commitment of the community and Carmarthenshire NHS trust. The extra money that was made available through the budget for health authorities and trusts, enables the Tŷ Bryngwyn hospice to expand its day care provision. I announced funding of £45,000 earlier this year, which has further extended the opportunities to provide day care. Tŷ Bryngwyn hospice’s fundraising and charitable group recognises that this is about an integrated palliative care service. It will be engaged in the consultation on the principles of a forward-looking, twenty-first century palliative care service, which has moved on from when it originally came together to start raising money in the community. I hope that the £70,000 funding that I have announced today will be matched, in part, by Carmarthenshire NHS trust. Fundraising will also play a part. There are other partnership opportunities that we should pursue. For example, as you know, McMillan nurses are involved in Tŷ Bryngwyn. That charitable organisation is key to the development of palliative care in Wales and plays a strong role. This is the only funding for this financial year and we are already half way through the year, but I hope that the in-patients’ facility will now open up. I now pass it on to the partnership in Llanelli to take matters forward to achieve this goal.

Mae’n bwysig gennyf fod y gwasanaeth llawn, sydd wedi’i gefnogi gan bobl Llanelli, yn cael ei ddatblygu a’i sefydlu oherwydd anghenion yr ardal ac ymrwymiad y gymuned ac ymddiriedolaeth GIG sir Gaerfyrddin. Mae’r arian ychwanegol a ddarparwyd drwy’r gyllideb ar gyfer yr awdurdodau iechyd a’r ymddiriedolaethau, yn galluogi hosbis Tŷ Bryngwyn i ehangu ei ddarpariaeth gofal dydd. Cyhoeddais gyllid o £45,000 yn gynharach eleni, ac mae hynny wedi ehangu’r cyfleoedd i ddarparu gofal dydd ymhellach. Mae grŵp codi arian ac elusennol hosbis Tŷ Bryngwyn yn sylweddoli bod hyn yn ymwneud â gwasanaeth gofal lliniarol integredig. Bydd yn cymryd rhan yn yr ymgynghori ar egwyddorion gwasanaeth gofal lliniarol blaengar yn yr unfed ganrif ar hugain, sydd wedi datblygu ers yr adeg yr ymffurfiodd i ddechrau codi arian yn y gymuned. Gobeithiaf y bydd y £70,000 o gyllid a gyhoeddais heddiw’n denu swm rhannol gyfatebol oddi wrth ymddiriedolaeth GIG sir Gaerfyrddin. Bydd gwaith codi arian yn cyfrannu at hyn hefyd. Mae cyfleoedd eraill am bartneriaeth y dylem eu dilyn. Er enghraifft, fel y gwyddoch, mae nyrsys McMillan yn ymwneud â Thŷ Bryngwyn. Mae’r corff elusennol hwnnw’n allweddol i ddatblygu gofal lliniarol yng Nghymru ac mae iddo rôl flaenllaw. Dyma’r unig gyllid ar gyfer y flwyddyn ariannol hon ac yr ydym hanner ffordd drwy’r flwyddyn eisoes, ond gobeithiaf y bydd y cyfleuster i gleifion mewnol yn agor yn awr. Trosglwyddaf hyn i’r bartneriaeth yn Llanelli’n awr er mwyn iddi fwrw ymlaen â’r gwaith i gyrraedd y nod hon.

David Melding spoken in English p. 44

David Melding siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 44

Will you join me in commending the work of the voluntary sector and local communities, which have been at the forefront of developing palliative care? Britain is a world leader in palliative care. However, it is sad that it has not become a strategy and an aspect of general medicine before now, which is what we want and what is needed to give patients the best possible quality of life and effective care.

A wnewch ymuno â mi i ganmol gwaith y sector gwirfoddol a chymunedau lleol, a fu yn y rheng flaen wrth ddatblygu gofal lliniarol? Mae Prydain yn arwain y byd mewn gofal lliniarol. Fodd bynnag, mae’n drist nad yw wedi dod yn strategaeth nac yn rhan feddygaeth gyffredinol cyn hyn, dyna beth yr ydym am ei gael a dyna sydd ei angen i roi’r ansawdd bywyd gorau posibl a gofal effeithiol i gleifion.

I will discuss two issues. First, the hospice movement has been an outstanding success and has given dignity and quality of life to many people at the end of their lives—although not always at the end of their lives. There now seems to be more of a movement towards the hospice at home—that is, outreach facilities from existing hospices. That needs to be an essential part of the strategy so that we use hospices as centres of excellence and encourage more to open. I commend Tŷ Hafan, the children’s hospice, of which you are aware. The potential for outreach work seems to be considerable and has not yet been fully developed. Many people would much prefer to receive even quite extensive interventions at home, if at all possible, and that is important.

Trafodaf dau fater. Yn gyntaf, bu’r mudiad hosbisau’n llwyddiant eithriadol ac mae wedi rhoi urddas ac ansawdd bywyd da i lawer o bobl ar ddiwedd eu hoes—er nad ar ddiwedd eu hoes ym mhob achos. Mae’n ymddangos bod mwy o symud yn awr at yr hosbis yn y cartref—hynny yw, cyfleusterau allanol yr hosbisau presennol. Rhaid i hynny fod yn rhan annatod o’r strategaeth fel y gallwn ddefnyddio hosbisau fel canolfannau rhagoriaeth a hybu agor rhagor ohonynt. Canmolaf Dŷ Hafan, yr hosbis i blant, y gwyddoch chi amdano. Ymddengys fod cryn botensial i waith allanol ac nid yw wedi’i ddatblygu’n llawn eto. Mae llawer o bobl y byddai’n well ganddynt gael ymyriadau eithaf helaeth, hyd yn oed, yn eu cartrefi, os oes modd, ac mae hynny’n bwysig.

Secondly, general palliative care is not necessarily associated with people who are suffering from serious illness towards the end of their lives. There are many chronic conditions, which while life-limiting, do not shorten the average lifespan. Pain control and management is important. I still believe that the public perception of conditions associated with distressing, long-lasting pain, such as arthritic conditions is that not a great deal can be done about them. That is the opposite of the truth. The advances that have been made with pain controlling drugs are fantastic; many other helpful therapies are also available. It is important that we use the primary care sector as a driving force. Palliative care must be located in the primary care sector if it is to help people with chronic conditions to have a higher quality of life. The service needs to be provided comprehensively in the primary care sector, not only in a GP’s surgery. It has to be an aspect of all primary healthcare professionals’ work. Finally, the role of practice nurses is key. We should be training them, above all others, to be effective in providing this ongoing care and advice.

Yn ail, nid yw gofal lliniarol cyffredinol yn gysylltiedig o reidrwydd â phobl sy’n dioddef gan salwch difrifol tua diwedd eu hoes. Mae llawer o anhwylderau cronig nad ydynt yn byrhau’r oes cyfartalog, er eu bod yn cyfyngu ar fywyd. Mae rheoli a thrafod poen yn bwysig. Yr wyf yn dal i gredu mai canfyddiad y cyhoedd o’r anhwylderau sy’n gysylltiedig â phoen barhaus, ingol, fel anhwylderau arthritig, yw na ellir gwneud llawer iawn yn eu cylch. Y gwrthwyneb sy’n wir. Mae’r gwelliannau a gafwyd gyda chyffuriau rheoli poen yn wych; mae llawer o therapïau buddiol eraill ar gael hefyd. Mae’n bwysig ein bod yn defnyddio’r sector gofal sylfaenol fel ysgogydd. Rhaid lleoli gofal lliniarol yn y sector gofal sylfaenol os ydyw i helpu rhai sydd ag anhwylderau cronig i gael ansawdd bywyd gwell. Rhaid darparu’r gwasanaeth yn gyffredinol yn y sector gofal sylfaenol, nid ym meddygfa’r meddyg teulu’n unig. Rhaid iddo fod yn agwedd ar waith yr holl weithwyr gofal iechyd sylfaenol proffesiynol. Yn olaf, mae rôl y nyrsys practis yn allweddol. Dylem eu hyfforddi hwy, yn anad neb arall, i fod yn effeithiol wrth ddarparu’r gofal a’r cyngor parhaus hwn.

Jane Hutt spoken in English p. 45

Jane Hutt siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 45

I am glad that you have raised those important points on outreach facilities. Recently, I spoke at the annual general meeting of the Hospice of the Valleys charitable organisation, which is undertaking pioneering work on outreach and support for people in the home. Many other hospice organisations in Wales are undertaking outreach work in the community in partnership with the NHS. This issue should be recognised in our primary care strategy, which we will discuss next week. The role of the practice nurse, as David said, is also important.

Yr wyf yn falch eich bod wedi codi’r pwyntiau pwysig hynny am gyfleusterau allanol. Yn ddiweddar, siaredais yng nghyfarfod blynyddol cyffredinol y corff elusennol Hosbis y Cymoedd, sy’n arloesi mewn gwaith allanol a chymorth i bobl yn y cartref. Mae llawer o gyrff hosbis eraill yng Nghymru’n gwneud gwaith allanol gwerthfawr yn y gymuned mewn partneriaeth â’r GIG. Dylid cydnabod y mater hwn yn ein strategaeth gofal sylfaenol, y byddwn yn ei thrafod yr wythnos nesaf. Mae rôl y nyrs practis yn bwysig hefyd, fel y dywedodd David.

David also mentioned the importance of pain control and management. Pioneering work has been undertaken in Wales by specialists on pain management, including consultants and nurses. We must ensure that, when we break the barriers around the development of pain management services, they are used for people with life-limiting as well as terminal illnesses. That has to be a key part of a palliative care strategy. I am glad that you brought these issues to the fore today because they will play an important part in our consultation.

Cyfeiriodd David hefyd at bwysigrwydd rheoli a thrafod poen. Gwnaed gwaith arloesol yng Nghymru gan arbenigwyr rheoli poen, gan gynnwys ymgynghorwyr a nyrsys. Rhaid inni sicrhau, wrth ddymchwel y rhwystrau rhag datblygu gwasanaethau rheoli poen, eu bod yn cael eu defnyddio ar gyfer pobl sydd â salwch sy’n cyfyngu ar fywyd yn ogystal â rhai sydd â salwch terfynol. Rhaid i hynny fod yn rhan allweddol o strategaeth gofal lliniarol. Yr wyf yn falch eich bod wedi rhoi lle blaenllaw i’r materion hyn heddiw gan y byddant yn chwarae rhan bwysig yn ein hymgynghoriad.

Alun Pugh spoken in English p. 46

Alun Pugh siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 46

You will be aware that an international expert on palliative medicine, Professor Ilora Finlay, is based in Cardiff. She works with the Marie Curie hospice in Cardiff where 104 people died from smoking-related diseases last year. After spending many years dealing with people who die from smoking-related diseases and counselling the orphans of smokers, she has reached the conclusion that there is a compelling case for the control of smoking in indoor public places, as have I. Do you accept that there would be less need for palliative care and that the Welsh death toll of 7,000 smokers a year would be reduced, if such controls were in place?

Byddwch yn ymwybodol bod arbenigwr rhyngwladol ar feddygaeth liniarol, yr Athro Ilora Finlay, wedi’i lleoli yng Nghaerdydd. Mae’n gweithio gyda hosbis Marie Curie yng Nghaerdydd lle y bu farw 104 o bobl y llynedd o glefydau sy’n gysylltiedig ag ysmygu. Ar ôl treulio blynyddoedd lawer yn delio â phobl sy’n marw o glefydau sy’n gysylltiedig ag ysmygu a chynghori plant amddifad ysmygwyr, fe ddaeth i’r casgliad bod dadl gryf dros reoli ysmygu mewn mannau cyhoeddus dan do, fel y gwneuthum i. A ydych yn cytuno y byddai llai o angen am ofal lliniarol ac y byddai’r golled o 7,000 o fywydau ymysg ysmygwyr yng Nghymru bob blwyddyn yn lleihau, pe byddai rheolaethau o’r fath ar waith?

Jane Hutt spoken in English p. 46

Jane Hutt siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 46

When Baroness Finlay made her maiden speech as a people’s peer in the House of Lords, she made a tremendous contribution to this cause by voicing her concerns about smoking and its impact, which she has witnessed through her work. We know that smoking is a killer and that we have to do all that is within our powers and resources to reduce the number of smokers in Wales. Smoking cessation is a part of our policy agenda. We must recognise that smoking contributes and leads to death from cancer, which we must tackle. I hope that Alun will contribute towards the consultation on the palliative care strategy.

Pan wnaeth y Farwnes Finlay ei haraith gyntaf fel un o arglwyddi’r bobl yn Nhŷ’r Arglwyddi, fe wnaeth gyfraniad aruthrol at yr achos hwn drwy fynegi’i phryderon ynghylch ysmygu a’i effaith, a welodd yn ei gwaith. Gwyddom fod ysmygu’n lladd a bod rhaid inni wneud popeth a allwn gyda’r pwerau a’r adnoddau sydd gennym i leihau nifer yr ysmygwyr yng Nghymru. Mae rhoi’r gorau i ysmygu’n rhan o’n hagenda bolisïau. Rhaid inni sylweddoli bod ysmygu’n cyfrannu at farwolaethau o ganser ac yn eu hachosi, a rhaid inni fynd i’r afael â hynny. Gobeithiaf y bydd Alun yn cyfrannu at yr ymgynghoriad ar y strategaeth gofal lliniarol.

Peter Black spoken in English p. 47

Peter Black siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 47

I welcome this statement and, in particular, the comment that palliative care is not just about cancer. The principles emerging from the strategy mainstream palliative care across the whole range of clinical services. Palliative care should be an integral part of clinical practice. Do you agree, Minister, that to mainstream basic palliative care we must actively tackle the understaffing of some hospital wards to relieve pressure on hard-working doctors and nurses? Do you also agree that the availability of care and information to patients and relatives is an essential feature of a successful palliative care strategy that can reduce distress for families? You said that hospitals play an important role in palliative care; Dai Lloyd referred to Tŷ Olwen’s staffing shortages. Are you aware of the planned long-term changes to Tŷ Olwen, and will you comment on that unit’s long-term future?

Croesawaf y datganiad hwn ac, yn benodol, y sylw nad yw gofal lliniarol yn ymwneud â chanser yn unig. Mae’r egwyddorion sy’n deillio o’r strategaeth yn rhoi lle canolog i ofal lliniarol yn yr holl wasanaethau clinigol. Dylai gofal lliniarol fod yn rhan annatod o ymarfer clinigol. A ydych yn cytuno, Weinidog, os ydym i roi lle canolog i ofal lliniarol sylfaenol, y bydd yn rhaid inni fynd i’r afael â’r prinder staff mewn rhai wardiau ysbyty er mwyn ysgafnhau’r pwysau ar y meddygon a’r nyrsys gweithgar? A ydych hefyd yn cytuno bod argaeledd gofal a gwybodaeth i gleifion a’u perthnasau’n elfen hanfodol mewn strategaeth gofal lliniarol llwyddiannus sy’n gallu lleddfu gofid teuluoedd? Dywedasoch fod rôl bwysig i ysbytai mewn gofal lliniarol; cyfeiriodd Dai Lloyd at y prinder staff yn Nhŷ Olwen. A ydych yn ymwybodol o’r newidiadau tymor hir arfaethedig yn Nhŷ Olwen, ac a wnewch sylw am ddyfodol tymor hir yr uned honno?

Finally, though the £70,000 for Tŷ Bryngwyn is welcome, as is the £4.5 million capital funding from the new opportunities fund, can you identify how much extra revenue funding is needed to deliver this strategy? How will it be protected from other service pressures, and how will you ensure that, in protecting it, it is used to improve palliative care across all mainstream clinical processes?

Yn olaf, er bod y £70,000 i Dŷ Bryngwyn i’w groesawu, fel y mae’r £4.5 miliwn o gyllid cyfalaf o’r gronfa cyfleoedd newydd, a allwch nodi faint o gyllid refeniw ychwanegol y bydd ei angen i gyflawni’r strategaeth hon? Sut y caiff ei gadw rhag pwysau gwasanaeth eraill, a sut y gwnewch sicrhau, wrth ei gadw, y caiff ei ddefnyddio i wella gofal lliniarol ym mhob un o’r prif brosesau clinigol?

Jane Hutt spoken in English p. 47

Jane Hutt siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 47

On your last point, following consultation, we will establish an implementation group that will cost all aspects of the palliative care strategy and submit proposals for the budget planning round. We must cost that against the principles that I laid out, namely to ensure that palliative care is an integral part of clinical practice. That relates to my answer to Dai Lloyd on our workforce planning targets for doctors and nurses, which must be steered by the service and describe the needs that it identifies. Following our palliative care strategy, that may need updating. We must also ensure the right training and education, and recruitment and retention strategies to get the staff in place. As David mentioned, the voluntary sector plays a valuable role, for example, the Tenovus cancer information services and the other cancer charities are key; many will know of the one at Velindre Hospital. I cannot tell you today about plans for Tŷ Olwen, but I will write to you on that, Peter. However, our palliative care strategy must recognise children’s and adults’ long-term needs, both for life-limiting and non-malignant, non life-limiting conditions.

Ynghylch eich pwynt olaf, ar ôl yr ymgynghoriad, byddwn yn sefydlu grŵp gweithredu a fydd yn prisio pob agwedd ar y strategaeth gofal lliniarol ac yn cyflwyno cynigion ar gyfer cylch cynllunio’r gyllideb. Rhaid inni brisio hynny yn ôl yr egwyddorion a nodais, sef sicrhau bod gofal lliniarol yn rhan annatod o ymarfer clinigol. Mae hynny’n berthnasol i’m hateb i Dai Lloyd ar ein targedau cynllunio gweithlu ar gyfer meddygon a nyrsys, y bydd yn rhaid iddynt gael eu llywio gan y gwasanaeth gan ddilyn yr anghenion y mae’n eu nodi. Ar ôl ein strategaeth gofal lliniarol, mae’n bosibl y bydd angen diweddaru hynny. Rhaid inni hefyd sicrhau bod gennym strategaethau briodol i addysg a hyfforddiant, a recriwtio a chadw, i roi’r staff ar waith. Fel y dywedodd David, mae’r sector gwirfoddol yn chwarae rhan werthfawr; er enghraifft, mae gwasanaethau gwybodaeth canser Tenovus a’r elusennau canser eraill yn allweddol; bydd llawer yn gwybod am yr un yn Ysbyty Felindre. Ni allaf roi gwybod ichi heddiw am y cynlluniau o ran Tŷ Olwen, ond fe ysgrifennaf atoch ynghylch hynny, Peter. Fodd bynnag, rhaid i’n strategaeth gofal lliniarol gydnabod anghenion tymor hir plant ac oedolion, o ran anhwylderau sy’n cyfyngu ar fywyd a rhai anghanseraidd nad ydynt yn cyfyngu ar fywyd.

Helen Mary Jones spoken in English p. 48

Helen Mary Jones siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 48

I welcome your recognition of the special situation at Tŷ Bryngwyn Hospice in Llanelli and your responsibility for it. I also welcome the announcement of the additional funding, which will be welcome in that community. However, I stress that, though the Health and Social Services Committee and the trustees are aware of changes in palliative care, and have supported care in the community, beds are still needed. Patients are still dying of these diseases on open hospital wards while unused palliative care beds are close by.

Croesawaf y ffaith eich bod yn cydnabod y sefyllfa arbennig yn Hosbis Tŷ Bryngwyn yn Llanelli a’ch cyfrifoldeb ato. Yr wyf hefyd yn croesawu’r cyhoeddiad am y cyllid ychwanegol, a fydd yn dderbyniol yn y gymuned honno. Er hynny, yr wyf yn pwysleisio, er bod y Pwyllgor Iechyd a Gwasanaethau Cymdeithasol a’r ymddiriedolwyr yn ymwybodol o’r newidiadau mewn gofal lliniarol, ac wedi cefnogi gofal yn y gymuned, fod angen gwelyau o hyd. Mae cleifion yn dal i farw o’r clefydau hyn mewn wardiau ysbyty agored tra bo gwelyau gofal lliniarol heb eu defnyddio gerllaw.

The issue at Bryngwyn is not one of one-off capital funding; we have built and fully resourced the hospice in that sense. The issue is one of ongoing revenue. If you cannot assure us today that this welcome £70,000 will be ring-fenced, recurrent and annual, can you give an idea—and I appreciate that you will make a further announcement at a later date—of how this contribution will be spent in the future? People’s expectations have been raised: we do not want to raise them again today and then disappoint them. How have you made your views clear to the trust and, importantly, your expectations of the health authority response in this regard? You did not mention the health authority in the statement and, although it will be replaced shortly, it is important in this financial year.

Nid mater o gyllid cyfalaf un-tro ydyw ym Mryngwyn; yr ydym wedi adeiladu a llwyr gyfarparu’r hosbis yn yr ystyr honno. Mater o refeniw parhaus ydyw. Os na allwch roi sicrwydd inni heddiw y bydd y £70,000 derbyniol hwn yn gyllid rheolaidd a blynyddol ac wedi’i bridiannu, a allwch roi awgrym—ac yr wyf yn sylweddoli y byddwch yn gwneud datganiad pellach yn y dyfodol—am y modd y caiff y cyfraniad hwn ei wario yn y dyfodol? Mae disgwyliadau pobl wedi’u codi; nid ydym am eu codi eto heddiw a’u siomi wedyn. Sut yr ydych wedi egluro’ch barn i’r ymddiriedolaeth ac, yn bwysig, yr hyn a ddisgwyliwch gan yr awdurdod iechyd yn hyn o beth? Ni wnaethoch sôn am yr awdurdod iechyd yn y datganiad ac, er y caiff ei ddisodli cyn hir, mae’n bwysig yn y flwyddyn ariannol hon.

Jane Hutt spoken in English p. 49

Jane Hutt siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 49

I am pleased that you recognise that this is a commitment to try to move forward with the Tŷ Bryngwyn hospice in Llanelli, which is located in the grounds of the Prince Phillip Hospital. It has already done pioneering work in its community and through outreach palliative care. A commissioning partnership is the way forward. There is no question about that. That partnership includes the NHS trust which, currently, is the health authority. That authority funds the palliative care provided through the day service at Tŷ Bryngwyn. I have announced that this funding is for this financial year but, as I said in my statement, in the autumn I hope to announce longer-term arrangements for hospice support. That is, obviously, subject to our budget planning round. That relates to commissioning arrangements, which do not just concern Tŷ Bryngwyn.

Yr wyf yn falch eich bod yn cydnabod bod hyn yn ymrwymiad i geisio symud ymlaen â hosbis Tŷ Bryngwyn yn Llanelli, sy’n sefyll ar dir Ysbyty’r Tywysog Phillip. Mae eisoes wedi gwneud gwaith arloesol yn ei gymuned a thrwy ofal lliniarol allanol. Partneriaeth gomisiynu yw’r ffordd ymlaen. Nid oes dwywaith am hynny. Mae’r bartneriaeth honno’n cynnwys yr ymddiriedolaeth GIG, sef yr awdurdod iechyd, ar hyn o bryd. Yr awdurdod hwnnw sy’n ariannu’r gofal lliniarol a ddarperir drwy’r gwasanaeth dydd yn Nhŷ Bryngwyn. Yr wyf wedi cyhoeddi bod y cyllid hwn ar gyfer y flwyddyn ariannol hon ond, fel y dywedais yn fy natganiad, yn yr hydref gobeithiaf gyhoeddi trefniadau tymor hwy i gynorthwyo hosbisau. Mae hynny’n amodol ar ein cylch cynllunio cyllideb, wrth gwrs. Mae a wnelo hynny â’r trefniadau comisiynu, nad ydynt yn ymwneud a Thŷ Bryngwyn yn unig.

There is no point going forward unless this can be sustainable. We must now get everyone round the table again to ensure that we move towards an integrated, twenty-first century service via Tŷ Bryngwyn. The trust will be involved, and there may be other partners who can come round the table. I would expect the health authority to be there. That is my commitment. I hope that this service will then take off and develop sustainably.

Nid oes diben mewn mynd ymlaen os na all hyn fod yn gynaliadwy. Rhaid inni ddod â phawb o amgylch y bwrdd eto’n awr i sicrhau ein bod yn symud tuag at wasanaeth integredig i’r unfed ganrif ar hugain drwy Dŷ Bryngwyn. Bydd yr ymddiriedolaeth yn chwarae rhan, ac efallai y bydd partneriaid eraill a all eistedd wrth y bwrdd. Byddwn yn disgwyl i’r awdurdod iechyd fod yno. Dyna fy ymrwymiad. Gobeithiaf y bydd y gwasanaeth hwn yn cychwyn wedyn ac yn datblygu’n gynaliadwy.

Peter Law spoken in English p. 49

Peter Law siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 49

I am delighted that you have announced this strategy. To many lay people, palliative care always calls to mind the hospice movement. I was delighted when you came to the Heads of the Valleys recently to attend the Hospice of the Valleys’ annual general meeting. That organisation is highly valued and offers great care and dedication. Your attendance at that meeting was much appreciated.

Yr wyf wrth fy modd eich bod wedi cyhoeddi’r strategaeth hon. I lawer o leygwyr, mae gofal lliniarol yn dwyn y mudiad hosbisau i gof bob tro. Yr oeddwn wrth fy modd pan ddaethoch i Flaenau’r Cymoedd yn ddiweddar i ddod i gyfarfod cyffredinol blynyddol Hosbis y Cymoedd. Mae parch mawr tuag at y mudiad hwnnw ac mae’n cynnig gofal ac ymroddiad gwych. Yr oedd eich presenoldeb yn y cyfarfod hwnnw wedi’i dra gwerthfawrogi.

We all welcome today’s good news about Tŷ Bryngwyn, but many hospices are only a step away from such problems because of the funding difficulties facing them. When you consider what the Assembly spends money on, we put millions of pounds into all sorts of projects, but these basic facilities that are so important in providing care and compassion to those at the end of their lives are struggling for money. I am particularly concerned about the children in the Tŷ Hafan hospice and the Hope House children’s hospice, which serves north Wales. Some of you will know that I will be doing a sponsored walk to support that hospice in the summer recess. I hope that Members will support me—and if you have not decided whether to do so, I hope that I have made you feel uncomfortable. However, the children, and the good people who run these hospices, deserve that support. They should not have to resort—

Yr ydym oll yn croesawu’r newyddion da heddiw am Dŷ Bryngwyn, ond mae llawer o hosbisau nad ydynt ond yn un cam i ffwrdd o broblemau o’r fath oherwydd yr anawsterau ariannu sy’n eu hwynebu. Pan ystyriwch yr hyn y mae’r Cynulliad yn gwario arian arno, rhoddwn filiynau o bunnoedd i bob math o brosiectau, ond mae’r cyfleusterau sylfaenol hyn sydd mor bwysig wrth gynnig gofal a thosturi i rai sydd ar ddiwedd eu hoes yn gorfod ymladd i gael arian. Yr wyf yn arbennig o bryderus ynghylch y plant yn hosbis Tŷ Hafan a hosbis plant Hope House, sy’n gwasanaethu’r Gogledd. Fe ŵyr rhai ohonoch y byddaf yn mynd ar daith gerdded noddedig i gefnogi’r hosbis hwnnw yn ystod toriad yr haf. Gobeithiaf y bydd yr Aelodau’n fy nghefnogi—ac os nad ydych wedi penderfynu a ydych am wneud, gobeithiaf fy mod wedi’ch anesmwytho. Fodd bynnag, mae’r plant, a’r bobl dda sy’n rhedeg yr hosbisau hyn, yn haeddu’r gefnogaeth honno. Ni ddylent orfod troi at—

Dafydd Elis-Thomas The Presiding Officer spoken in English p. 50

Dafydd Elis-Thomas Y Llywydd siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 50

Order. I am sorry, Peter, but this is not the time for making speeches. This is a statement and I have called you to ask a short question. We have already had a longer question from a member of your group.

Trefn. mae’n ddrwg gennyf, Peter, ond nid hon yw’r adeg i wneud areithiau. Datganiad yw hwn ac yr wyf wedi galw arnoch i ofyn cwestiwn byr. Yr ydym eisoes wedi cael cwestiwn hwy gan aelod o’ch grŵp.

Peter Law spoken in English p. 50

Peter Law siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 50

I do not think that we should allow those people to rely on jumble sales and street collections and I therefore hope that you will be able to announce a structure of financial support in the future to allow funding of the hospice movement in the right way for the good of all the people of Wales. Can you assure us that you will do that?

Ni chredaf y dylem adael i’r bobl hynny ddibynnu ar ffeiriau sborion a chasgliadau stryd ac yr wyf yn gobeithio, felly, y byddwch yn gallu cyhoeddi strwythur cymorth ariannol yn y dyfodol fel y gellir ariannu’r mudiad hosbisau’n briodol er budd holl bobl Cymru. A allwch ein sicrhau y byddwch yn gwneud hynny?

Jane Hutt spoken in English p. 50

Jane Hutt siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 50

I can. However, charitable fundraising is a part of the partnership in terms of the future funding of palliative care. I stress today that we need to recognise that partnership and the role of the voluntary sector. Through our local health boards, the voluntary sector will have a role in the commissioning process.

Gallaf. Fodd bynnag, mae codi arian gan elusennau’n rhan o’r bartneriaeth o ran ariannu gofal lliniarol yn y dyfodol. Pwysleisiaf heddiw fod angen inni gydnabod y bartneriaeth honno a rôl y sector gwirfoddol. Drwy ein byrddau iechyd lleol, bydd rôl i’r sector gwirfoddol yn y broses comisiynu.

David Davies spoken in English p. 50

David Davies siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 50

Minister, you talk of partnership, but are you aware that, too often, such a partnership does not take place? Too often, if health authorities decide to spend extra money on palliative care, they duplicate, or sometimes compete with excellent voluntary providers such as the St David’s Foundation in Gwent. Such bodies, as you know—

Weinidog, yr ydych yn sôn am bartneriaeth, ond a ydych yn ymwybodol nad yw’r bartneriaeth honno’n digwydd, mewn gormod o achosion? Yn rhy aml, os yw’r awdurdodau iechyd yn penderfynu gwario arian ychwanegol ar ofal lliniarol, maent yn dyblygu, neu weithiau’n cystadlu â darparwyr gwirfoddol rhagorol fel Sefydliad Dewi Sant yng Ngwent. Mae cyrff o’r fath, fel y gwyddoch—

Dafydd Elis-Thomas The Presiding Officer spoken in English p. 51

Dafydd Elis-Thomas Y Llywydd siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 51

Order. Now you are making a speech. Please ask one question.

Trefn. Yr ydych chithau’n gwneud araith yn awr. Gofynnwch un cwestiwn, os gwelwch yn dda.

David Davies spoken in English p. 51

David Davies siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 51

Will the Minister investigate this lack of co-operation and talk to the voluntary providers concerned to ensure that her words do not remain an empty aspiration?

A wnaiff y Gweinidog ymchwilio i’r diffyg cydweithredu hwn a siarad â’r darparwyr gwirfoddol dan sylw i sicrhau nad yw ei geiriau’n parhau’n obaith gwag?

Jane Hutt spoken in English p. 51

Jane Hutt siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 51

Today’s announcement of the strategic framework and the three-month consultation will put palliative care at the top of the agenda for the statutory and voluntary sectors. We must all take advantage of that opportunity to ensure that we take this partnership forward.

Bydd y cyhoeddiad heddiw am y fframwaith strategol a’r ymgynghoriad tri mis yn rhoi gofal lliniarol ar ben yr agenda i’r sectorau statudol a gwirfoddol. Rhaid inni oll fanteisio ar y cyfle hwnnw i sicrhau ein bod yn bwrw ymlaen â’r bartneriaeth hon.

Karen Sinclair spoken in English p. 51

Karen Sinclair siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 51

I am delighted that you have made this statement. However, will you expand on the principles that you listed? The first principle in your written statement is that:

Yr wyf yn falch iawn eich bod wedi gwneud y datganiad hwn. Fodd bynnag, a wnewch ymhelaethu ar yr egwyddorion y gwnaethoch eu rhestru? Yr egwyddor gyntaf yn eich datganiad ysgrifenedig yw:

‘Every person, irrespective of age, with life-limiting conditions should be able to receive palliative care appropriate for their assessed need.’

‘Dylai pob un, beth bynnag fo’i oed, sydd ag anhwylder sy’n cyfyngu ar ei fywyd, allu cael gofal lliniarol sy’n briodol i’r angen yr aseswyd ei fod ganddo.’

Further down the list—

Ymhellach i lawr y rhestr—

Dafydd Elis-Thomas The Presiding Officer spoken in English p. 51

Dafydd Elis-Thomas Y Llywydd siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 51

Order. I cannot allow the rereading of a statement as part of a question. We are out of time. We have a full schedule today and I remind Members to pose brief questions in response to statements.

Trefn. Ni allaf ganiatáu ailddarllen datganiad fel rhan o gwestiwn. Mae’n hamser ar ben. Mae gennym amserlen lawn heddiw ac yr wyf yn atgoffa’r Aelodau y dylent ofyn cwestiynau byr mewn ymateb i ddatganiadau.

Karen Sinclair spoken in English p. 51

Karen Sinclair siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 51

This is a short question.

Cwestiwn byr yw hwn.

Dafydd Elis-Thomas The Presiding Officer spoken in English p. 52

Dafydd Elis-Thomas Y Llywydd siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 52

Yes, it will be.

Ie, fe fydd ef.

Karen Sinclair spoken in English p. 52

Karen Sinclair siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 52

I was just trying to put my point into context. As an overarching aim, can you ensure that decisions on palliative care are made by the people who receive the service so that they can control it? People should not be fitted into models of care that do not necessarily give them what they want.

Nid oeddwn ond yn ceisio rhoi fy mhwynt yn ei gyd-destun. Fel nod gyffredinol, a allwch sicrhau y gwneir y penderfyniadau ar ofal lliniarol gan y rhai sy’n derbyn y gwasanaeth fel y gallant ei reoli? Ni ddylai pobl gael eu ffitio i fodelau gofal nad ydynt o reidrwydd yn rhoi iddynt yr hyn y mae arnynt ei angen.

Jane Hutt spoken in English p. 52

Jane Hutt siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 52

Palliative care must start with the people who need the services, and with their families and carers. That is how assessed need will take place.

Rhaid i ofal lliniarol ddechrau gyda’r rhai y mae arnynt angen y gwasanaethau, a chyda’u teuluoedd a’u gofalwyr. Dyna sut y bydd yr angen a asesir yn digwydd.

Pwynt o Drefn

Point of Order

Elin Jones siaradwyd yn Gymraeg t. 52

Elin Jones spoken in Welsh p. 52

Pwynt o drefn. Codaf y pwynt o drefn hwn o dan Reol Sefydlog Rhif 6.8 ac mewn cyswllt â phwynt 3.1 Cod y Gweinidogion. Mae’r pwynt yn ymwneud â’r flaenoriaeth a roddir gan Weinidogion i ddatganiadau yn y Siambr hwn. Yn ei ddatganiad ar Allied Steel and Wire y bore yma, cyfeiriodd y Gweinidog dros Ddatblygu Economaidd at y ffaith y byddai’n gwneud cyhoeddiad yn nes ymlaen heddiw ar fand llydan. Mae hi bron yn 11 a.m. ac mae’r Gweinidog wedi mynd i Ysgol Fusnes Caerdydd i wneud y cyhoeddiad pwysig hwnnw. Mae’n sarhad ar y Cynulliad bod y Gweindog yn barod i deithio milltir i ganol y ddinas i wneud datganiad pwysig ar fand llydan ac osgoi bod yn atebol i Aelodau etholedig y Siambr hwn. Pa wahaniaeth sydd rhwng gweithred Andrew Davies heddiw ac arferion Ysgrifenyddion Gwladol Cymru cyn datganoli? Ym mhle y mae atebolrwydd y Llywodraeth i Aelodau etholedig Cymru?

Point of order. I raise this point of order under Standing Order No. 6.8 and in relation to point 3.1 of the Ministerial Code. It is about the priority given by Ministers to statements in this Chamber. In his statement on Allied Steel and Wire this morning, the Minister for Economic Development referred to the fact that he would be making an announcement on broadband later today. It is almost 11 a.m. and the Minister has gone to Cardiff Business School to make that important announcement. It is an insult to the Assembly that the Minister is prepared to travel a mile to the city centre to make an important announcement on broadband and thus avoid being held to account by the Assembly’s elected Members. What is the difference between Andrew Davies’s action today and the practices of Secretaries of State for Wales prior to devolution? Where is the Government’s accountability to the elected Members of Wales?

Efallai y cred Andrew Davies y gall osgoi cwestiynau treiddgar Phil Williams ar fand llydan. Fodd bynnag, yn anffodus iddo fe, anfonodd Plaid Cymru Phil Williams draw i’r ysgol fusnes i gwestiynu’r Gweinidog ar ei gyhoeddiad. Mae’n annheg bod rhaid i Aelodau’r Cynulliad ddilyn Gweinidogion ar draws y wlad wrth iddynt wneud cyhoeddiadau yn ystod amser Cyfarfodydd Llawn y Cynulliad. Mae hynny’n groes i God y Gweinidogion. Gwerthfawrogwn eich dyfarniad ar hyn.

Andrew Davies may believe that he can avoid Phil Williams’s probing questions on broadband. However, unfortunately for him, Plaid Cymru has sent Phil Williams to the business school to question the Minister on his announcement. It is unfair that Assembly Members have to chase all over the country after Ministers who are making announcements during Assembly Plenary session time. That goes against the Ministerial Code. I would appreciate your ruling on this matter.

Dafydd Elis-Thomas Y Llywydd siaradwyd yn Gymraeg t. 53

Dafydd Elis-Thomas The Presiding Officer spoken in Welsh p. 53

Ni wn ym mhle y mae’r Gweindiog na Phil Williams. Nid yw hynny’n fater i mi. Fodd bynnag, sylwaf nad yw’r Gweinidog yn y Siambr. Cyfeirodd yn ei ddatganiad ar ASW yn gynharach at y cyhoeddiad ar delathrebu band llydan. Gan iddo gyfeirio at hynny yn ei ddatganiad, byddwn wedi derbyn cwestiynau llafar ar y pwnc hwnnw yn ystod cwestiynau ar y datganiad hwnnw. Fodd bynnag, ni ofynnwyd cwestiwn ar hynny. Bu cyfle i wneud hynny, a byddai unrhyw gwestiynau wedi bod mewn trefn. Derbyniaf mai prif fater y datganiad oedd y sefyllfa ddifrifol yn y diwydiant dur ac felly nad oedd cyfle i ofyn cwestiynau ar fand llydan.

I do not know of the whereabouts of the Minister or of Phil Williams. That is not a matter for me. However, I notice that the Minister is not in the Chamber. In his statement on ASW earlier today he referred to the fact that he would be making an announcement on broadband telecommunications. Since he referred to that announcement in his statement, I would have been happy to accept oral questions on that matter during questions on that statement. However, nobody asked a question on that. There was an opportunity to do so and any such questions would have been in order. I accept that the main focus of that statement was the serious situation in the steel industry, and that there was no opportunity to ask questions on broadband.

Mae Cod y Gweinidogion yn glir. Yn hytrach na gwneud sylw pellach fy hun, darllenaf o’r Cod, ac, fel y dywed y ddihareb, ‘A ddarlleno, ystyried’:

The Ministerial Code is clear. Rather than make any further comments myself, I will read from the Ministerial Code, and, as the old adage goes: ‘they who read, consider’:

‘Bydd y Gweinidogion am gadw mewn cof awydd y Cynulliad i’r cyhoeddiadau pwysicaf ar bolisi’r Cynulliad gael eu gwneud, yn y lle cyntaf, yn y Cynulliad.’

‘Ministers will want to bear in mind the desire of the Assembly that the most important announcements of the Assembly’s policy should be made, in the first instance, in the Assembly.’

Alun Cairns siaradwyd yn Gymraeg t. 53

Alun Cairns spoken in Welsh p. 53

Ymhellach i’r pwynt o drefn hwnnw, onid dyletswydd Gweinidogion yw gwneud datganiadau yn y Siambr hwn os ydym am i’r Cynulliad gael ei drin fel y dylai yn y dyfodol? Fel y dywedodd Elin Jones, mae’n rhaid i Aelodau’r Cynulliad redeg ar ôl y Gweinidogion er mwyn eu cwestiynu. Dychwelaf at eich pwynt, Lywydd, am y datganiad a wnaed yn gynharach heddiw. Nid oedd y manylion yn y cyhoeddiad—y mae’r Gweinidog yn eu rhannu ar hyn o bryd ym Mhrifysgol Caerdydd—ym meddiant yr Aelodau y bore yma. Mae’n anodd codi cwestiynau am fater os nad yw’r manylion gennych. Neithiwr, bu inni dderbyn e-bost yn dweud y byddai’r Gweinidog yn anfon copi o’r datganiad a’r manylion at bob Aelod, ond ni wnaethpwyd hynny.

Further to that point of order, is it not the duty of Ministers to make announcements in this Chamber if we want the Assembly to be treated as it should be in future? As Elin Jones said, Assembly Members must chase after Ministers to question them. I return to your point, Presiding Officer, on the statement made earlier today. The details of the announcement—which the Minister is disclosing at Cardiff University as we speak—were not available to Members this morning. It is difficult to raise questions on a matter if you do not have the details. Last night, we received an e-mail stating that the Minister would circulate a copy of the statement, and the details, to all Members. However, that was not done.

Dafydd Elis-Thomas Y Llywydd siaradwyd yn Gymraeg t. 54

Dafydd Elis-Thomas The Presiding Officer spoken in Welsh p. 54

Yr wyf yn ddiolchgar am y wybodaeth ychwanegol, ac yr wyf yn sicr y bydd y Llywodraeth yn ei hystyried. Cyfeiriodd Elin Jones at hen drefn gweithgareddau gweinidogion yn y Swyddfa Gymreig a’u hatebolrwydd. Fel un a oedd yn rhan o’r hen drefn cyn datganoli mewn lle arall, nid wyf am weld y drefn honno’n dychwelyd i Gymru, ac felly ni chaiff hynny ddigwydd tra byddaf i’n Llywydd.

I am grateful for that additional information, and I am sure that the Government will take it into consideration. Elin Jones referred to the old order in the Welsh Office as regards ministerial activity and accountability. As someone who was part of the old order prior to devolution in another place, I do not wish to see its re-emergence in Wales, and therefore that will not be allowed to happen while I am Presiding Officer.

Gareth Jones siaradwyd yn Gymraeg t. 54

Gareth Jones spoken in Welsh p. 54

Ymhellach i’r pwynt o drefn hwnnw—

Further to that point of order—

Dafydd Elis-Thomas Y Llywydd siaradwyd yn Gymraeg t. 54

Dafydd Elis-Thomas The Presiding Officer spoken in Welsh p. 54

Nid oes amser gennym, os nad yw’n bwynt da.

We do not have time, unless it is a good point.

Gareth Jones siaradwyd yn Gymraeg t. 54

Gareth Jones spoken in Welsh p. 54

Efallai ei fod. Bu ichi sôn bod y Gweinidog wedi trafod dau bwnc yn ei ddatganiad. Mae hynny’n rhoi pwysau aruthrol ar Aelodau. O gofio prif bwnc datganiad heddiw, byddai holi’r Gweinidog am dechnoleg band llydan wedi bod yn beth ansensitif i’w wneud. Allied Steel and Wire oedd y flaenoriaeth heddiw. Annheg fyddai disgwyl inni ofyn cwestiynau ar bwnc sy’n eilradd i unrhyw flaenoriaeth o’r fath yn y dyfodol.

It may be. You referred to the fact that the Minister addressed two subjects in his statement. This places tremendous pressure on Members. Given the main focus of today’s statement, it would have been insensitive of us to have questioned the Minister on broadband technology. Allied Steel and Wire was today’s priority issue. It would be unfair to expect us to ask questions on a subject secondary to any such priority issue in future.

Dafydd Elis-Thomas Y Llywydd siaradwyd yn Gymraeg t. 54

Dafydd Elis-Thomas The Presiding Officer spoken in Welsh p. 54

Derbyniaf hynny, ond yr oeddwn yn ceisio helpu Aelodau. Pe bai Gweinidog yn cyfeirio at ddatganiad arall neu at faterion eraill, fel a ddigwyddodd yn ystod y datganiad ar ASW, byddwn yn caniatáu cwestiynau arnynt. Dylid cofio hynny at y dyfodol. Os yw Gweinidogion yn wirfoddol yn cynnig gwybodaeth sy’n ychwanegu at brif bwnc datganiad, gosodir y wybodaeth honno gerbron y Cynulliad a gall Aelodau ei chwestiynu. Credaf ein bod bellach wedi dihysbyddu’r pwnc hwn.

I accept that, but I was trying to assist Members. If Ministers refer to another statement or other issues, as happened during the statement on ASW, I would consider questions on them to be in order. Members should bear that in mind for the future. If Ministers voluntarily proffer information that supplements a statement’s main topic, that information is placed before the Assembly and is open for scrutiny by Members. I think that we have now exhausted this subject.

Cymeradwyo Rheoliadau’r Gwasanaeth Iechyd Gwladol (Gwasanaethau Meddygol Cyffredinol) (Diwygio) (Rhif 3) (Cymru) 2002

Approval of the National Health Service (General Medical Services) (Amendment) (No. 3) (Wales) Regulations 2002

Jane Hutt The Minister for Health and Social Services spoken in English p. 54

Jane Hutt Y Gweinidog dros Iechyd a Gwasanaethau Cymdeithasol siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 54

I propose that

Cynigiaf fod

Jane Hutt The Minister for Health and Social Services (continued) spoken in English p. 55

Jane Hutt Y Gweinidog dros Iechyd a Gwasanaethau Cymdeithasol (parhad) siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 55

I propose that

Cynigiaf fod

David Lloyd spoken in English p. 55

David Lloyd siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 55

I declare my usual interest as a general practitioner.

Datganaf fy muddiant arferol fel meddyg teulu.

This is a largely technical function on changing a few items that can and cannot be prescribed by GPs. Products, such as various elements of glucosamine sulphate tablets, have been included in schedule 10 to prevent GPs prescribing them on the NHS. Two products have been released from the restriction, which means that GPs will be allowed to prescribe them. This is about the ongoing development of drug formularies, and Wales has several local formularies and local health group formularies. How does the Minister view the future development of formularies in Wales? [Interruption.]

Swyddogaeth dechnegol yw hon gan mwyaf ar newid ychydig o eitemau y caiff neu na chaiff meddygon teulu eu rhagnodi. Mae rhai cynhyrchion, fel gwahanol elfennau tabledi glwcosamin sylffad, wedi’u cynnwys yn atodlen 10 i atal meddygon teulu rhag eu rhagnodi dan y GIG. Mae dau gynnyrch wedi’u rhyddhau o’r cyfyngiad, sy’n golygu y caniateir i feddygon teulu eu rhagnodi. Mae hyn yn ymwneud â’r datblygu parhaus ar gyffurlyfrau, ac mae gan Gymru nifer o gyffurlyfrau lleol a chyffurlyfrau grwpiau iechyd lleol. Beth yw barn y Gweinidog am ddatblygu cyffurlyfrau yng Nghymru yn y dyfodol? [Torri ar draws.]

Dafydd Elis-Thomas The Presiding Officer spoken in English p. 55

Dafydd Elis-Thomas Y Llywydd siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 55

Order. This motion is subject to debate. This may sound pompous but, as long as I am sitting in this Chair, if any Member wishes to speak on a debatable motion, I will allow them to do so if there is time.

Trefn. Mae dadl ar y cynnig hwn. Efallai y bydd hyn yn swnio’n rhwysgfawr ond, cyhyd ag y byddaf fi’n eistedd yn y Gadair hon, os yw unrhyw Aelod yn dymuno siarad ar gynnig y gellir cael dadl arni, gwnaf ganiatáu iddo wneud hynny os oes digon o amser.

Jane Hutt The Minister for Health and Social Services spoken in English p. 55

Jane Hutt Y Gweinidog dros Iechyd a Gwasanaethau Cymdeithasol siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 55

I will take on board the points raised by Dai Lloyd.

Fe ystyriaf y pwyntiau a gododd Dai Lloyd.

Dafydd Elis-Thomas Y Llywydd siaradwyd yn Gymraeg t. 56

Dafydd Elis-Thomas The Presiding Officer spoken in Welsh p. 56

Galwaf am bleidlais ar egwyddor y rheoliadau.

I call for a vote on the principle of the regulations.

DerbyniwydAdopted O blaidFor 40 YmatalAbstain 0 Yn erbynAgainst 0

Derbyniwyd y cynnig.

Motion carried.

Sut y pleidleisiodd yr AelodauHow Members voted
O blaidFor (40)
  • Lorraine Barrett
  • Mick Bates
  • Peter Black
  • Eleanor Burnham
  • Rosemary Butler
  • Alun Cairns
  • David Davies
  • Geraint Davies
  • Glyn Davies
  • Janet Davies
  • Ron Davies
  • Sue Essex
  • Michael German
  • Brian Gibbons
  • William Graham
  • Janice Gregory
  • John Griffiths
  • Alison Halford
  • Brian Hancock
  • Edwina Hart
  • Jane Hutt
  • Ann Jones
  • Carwyn Jones
  • Gareth Jones
  • Helen Mary Jones
  • Ieuan Wyn Jones
  • Peter Law
  • David Lloyd
  • Val Lloyd
  • David Melding
  • Rhodri Morgan
  • Alun Pugh
  • Jenny Randerson
  • Peter Rogers
  • Janet Ryder
  • Karen Sinclair
  • Gwenda Thomas
  • Owen John Thomas
  • Rhodri Glyn Thomas
  • Kirsty Williams

Dafydd Elis-Thomas Y Llywydd siaradwyd yn Gymraeg t. 56

Dafydd Elis-Thomas The Presiding Officer spoken in Welsh p. 56

Galwaf am bleidlais ar gymeradwyo’r rheoliadau.

I call for a vote on the approval of the regulations.

DerbyniwydAdopted O blaidFor 40 YmatalAbstain 0 Yn erbynAgainst 0

Derbyniwyd y cynnig.

Motion carried.

Sut y pleidleisiodd yr AelodauHow Members voted
O blaidFor (40)
  • Lorraine Barrett
  • Mick Bates
  • Peter Black
  • Eleanor Burnham
  • Rosemary Butler
  • Alun Cairns
  • Andrew Davies
  • David Davies
  • Geraint Davies
  • Glyn Davies
  • Janet Davies
  • Ron Davies
  • Sue Essex
  • Michael German
  • Brian Gibbons
  • William Graham
  • Janice Gregory
  • John Griffiths
  • Alison Halford
  • Brian Hancock
  • Jane Hutt
  • Ann Jones
  • Carwyn Jones
  • Gareth Jones
  • Helen Mary Jones
  • Ieuan Wyn Jones
  • Peter Law
  • David Lloyd
  • Val Lloyd
  • David Melding
  • Rhodri Morgan
  • Alun Pugh
  • Jenny Randerson
  • Peter Rogers
  • Janet Ryder
  • Karen Sinclair
  • Gwenda Thomas
  • Owen John Thomas
  • Rhodri Glyn Thomas
  • Kirsty Williams

Cymeradwyo Rheolau Trafnidiaeth a Gweithfeydd (Gweithdrefn Ceisiadau a Gwrthwynebiadau) (Cymru a Lloegr) 2002

Approval of the Transport and Works (Application and Objections Procedure) (England and Wales) Rules 2002

Sue Essex The Minister for Environment spoken in English p. 57

Sue Essex Y Gweinidog dros yr Amgylchedd siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 57

I propose that

Cynigiaf fod

Sue Essex The Minister for Environment (continued) spoken in English p. 58

Sue Essex Y Gweinidog dros yr Amgylchedd (parhad) siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 58

The purpose of this motion is to seek the Assembly’s agreement to an amendment drafted by the office of the Deputy Prime Minister to existing transport and works applications and objections procedure rules. There is a need for change. The current fee scale in the applications rules 2000 would be unfair to offshore windfarm developers. The level of fee, based on area, would be disproportionate to the cost of processing windfarm applications. The main proposal is that a flat rate fee be introduced for offshore windfarm projects of typical size, for example 30 turbines or smaller. For larger windfarm schemes it is anticipated that processing costs would be higher and that that should be recognised by a sliding scale of fees relating to the number of turbines over 30.

Pwrpas y cynnig hwn yw ceisio cytundeb gan y Cynulliad ar ddiwygiad a ddrafftiwyd gan swyddfa’r Dirprwy Brif Weinidog i’r rheolau trafnidiaeth a gweithfeydd gweithdrefn ceisiadau a gwrthwynebiadau presennol. Mae angen newid. Byddai’r raddfa ffïoedd bresennol yn rheolau ceisiadau 2000 yn annheg â datblygwyr ffermydd gwynt ar y môr. Byddai lefel y ffi, ar sail arwynebedd, yn anghymesur â’r gost o brosesu ceisiadau am ffermydd gwynt. Y prif gynnig yw y dylid cyflwyno ffi ar gyfradd wastad ar gyfer prosiectau fferm wynt ar y môr o faint nodweddiadol, er enghraifft, 30 tyrbin neu lai. Yn achos cynlluniau fferm wynt mwy, rhagwelir y byddai’r costau prosesu’n uwch ac y dylid cydnabod hynny drwy osod graddfa ffïoedd symudol sy’n gysylltiedig â nifer y tyrbinau uwchlaw 30.

The amendment will introduce separate fee scales for applications for orders under the Transport and Works Act 1992 relating to the construction of offshore windfarms. It will remove the anomaly in the existing fee scale that would have resulted in disproportionately high application fees being payable for offshore windfarms. It will remove the disincentive to use the Transport and Works Act authorisation procedure, and what might have been a deterrent to the development of this renewable energy source. It will not impact on onshore windfarms; the consent regime for these comes under planning legislation. There are no Transport and Works Act 1992 order applications for offshore windfarms as yet, but several are anticipated in the near future, including in the territorial waters of Wales. The amendment does not reflect a change in policy; it simply reflects the judgment that the current fee regime is unfair and could prove a disincentive to offshore windfarm investment. I ask the Assembly to support the motion.

Bydd y diwygiad hwn yn cyflwyno graddfeydd ffïoedd ar wahân i geisiadau am orchmynion dan y Ddeddf Trafnidiaeth a Gweithfeydd 1992 sy’n ymwneud ag adeiladu ffermydd gwynt ar y môr. Bydd yn dileu’r anghysondeb yn y raddfa ffïoedd bresennol a fyddai wedi arwain at ofyniad i dalu ffïoedd ymgeisio anghymesur o uchel ar gyfer ffermydd gwynt ar y môr. Bydd yn dileu’r anghymhelliad i ddefnyddio gweithdrefn awdurdodi’r Ddeddf Trafnidiaeth a Gweithfeydd, a’r hyn a allasai fod yn rhwystr i ddatblygu’r ffynhonnell ynni adnewyddadwy hon. Ni fydd yn effeithio ar ffermydd gwynt ar y tir; mae’r gyfundrefn caniatáu ar gyfer y rhain yn rhan o’r ddeddfwriaeth cynllunio. Ni chafwyd unrhyw geisiadau am orchmynion Deddf Trafnidiaeth a Gweithfeydd 1992 i ffermydd gwynt ar y môr hyd yn hyn, ond disgwylir nifer ohonynt yn y dyfodol agos, gan gynnwys rhai yn nyfroedd tiriogaethol Cymru. Nid yw’r diwygiad yn adlewyrchu newid mewn polisi; nid yw ond yn adlewyrchu’r dyfarniad bod y gyfundrefn ffïoedd bresennol yn annheg ac y gallai fod yn anghymhelliad i fuddsoddi mewn ffermydd gwynt ar y môr. Gofynnaf i’r Cynulliad gefnogi’r cynnig.

Janet Davies spoken in English p. 59

Janet Davies siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 59

I want to set this issue in the context of the Assembly’s requirement to promote sustainable development, including energy from renewable sources. It is unfortunate that fees under the Transport and Works Act rules for this type of application are based on the overall area of land that might be needed. Clearly, there is an anomaly in the case of these offshore windfarms, which cannot generate enough income to make it worthwhile to pay a fee of between £250,000 and £500,000. To draw a comparison, business rates are also not based on the income generated by a business, but on the location and the size of buildings needed for that business.

Dymunaf roi’r mater hwn yng nghyd-destun y gofyniad i’r Cynulliad hyrwyddo datblygu cynaliadwy, gan gynnwys ynni o ffynonellau adnewyddadwy. Mae’n anffodus bod y ffïoedd dan reolau’r Ddeddf Trafnidiaeth a Gweithfeydd i gais o’r math hwn yn seiliedig ar y cyfan o’r arwynebedd tir y gallai fod ei angen. Mae’n amlwg bod anghysondeb yn achos ffermydd gwynt ar y môr, na allant gynhyrchu digon o incwm i’w wneud yn werth talu ffi o rhwng £250,000 a £500,000. Er mwyn cymharu, nid yw trethi busnes yn seiliedig ar yr incwm a gynhyrchir gan fusnes ychwaith, ond ar leoliad a maint yr adeiladau y mae eu hangen i’r busnes hwnnw.

Windfarms are part of the patchwork quilt of renewable energy sources. All energy production poses some challenges, whether they are those related to fossil fuels and nuclear energy and its products, or concern about burning biomass and protests about onshore windfarms. Some forms of energy production pose much greater challenges than renewable energy. On offshore windfarms, I am concerned about possible extra hazards in terms of navigation and fish movements, but that will have to be resolved.

Mae ffermydd gwynt yn rhan o’r amrywiaeth o ffynonellau ynni adnewyddadwy. Mae pob math o gynhyrchu ynni yn cynnig rhai heriau, boed hwy’n ymwneud â thanwyddau ffosil ac ynni niwclear a’i gynhyrchion, neu bryder am losgi biomas a phrotestiadau ynghylch ffermydd gwynt ar y tir. Mae rhai mathau o gynhyrchu ynni’n cynnig heriau mwy o lawer nag ynni adnewyddadwy. Ynghylch ffermydd gwynt ar y môr, yr wyf yn bryderus ynghylch y peryglon ychwanegol posibl o ran mordwyo a symudiadau pysgod, ond bydd yn rhaid datrys hynny.

For many years, the Government was not willing to support renewable energy production and supported financially and environmentally expensive nuclear energy instead. That has held renewable energy production back. These changes to the Transport and Works Act rules to reduce the fee payable for offshore windfarms will help to redress that legacy.

Am flynyddoedd lawer, nid oedd y Llywodraeth yn barod i gefnogi cynhyrchu ynni adnewyddadwy, a chefnogai ynni niwclear a oedd yn gostus yn ariannol ac yn amgylcheddol yn ei le. Mae hynny wedi dal yn ôl cynhyrchu ynni adnewyddadwy. Bydd y newidiadau hyn i reolau’r Ddeddf Trafnidiaeth a Gweithfeydd yn gymorth i wneud iawn am hynny.

Alun Pugh spoken in English p. 59

Alun Pugh siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 59

Offshore windfarms, including large-scale developments off the coast of my constituency of Clwyd West, have the potential to reduce carbon dioxide emissions significantly without us resorting to the uneconomic and unsustainable business of constructing new nuclear power stations. It is important that we do not put unnecessary financial barriers in the way of such exciting developments and I hope that this motion will be carried. Will the Minister quantify how much those two offshore windfarms will save as a result of this change? Perhaps she could write to me on that.

Mae ffermydd gwynt ar y môr, gan gynnwys datblygiadau mawr oddi ar arfordir fy etholaeth i, Gorllewin Clwyd, yn meddu ar y potensial i leihau’r gollyngiadau o garbon deuocsid yn sylweddol heb inni orfod troi at y busnes aneconomaidd ac anghynaliadwy o godi gorsafoedd trydan niwclear newydd. Mae’n bwysig nad ydym yn codi rhwystrau ariannol i ddatblygiadau mor gyffrous a gobeithiaf y caiff y cynnig hwn ei dderbyn. A wnaiff y Gweinidog ddweud pa faint y bydd y ddwy fferm wynt hynny ar y môr yn ei arbed o ganlyniad i’r newid hwn? Efallai y gallai ysgrifennu ataf ynghylch hynny.

David Davies spoken in English p. 60

David Davies siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 60

I am happy to support this motion for three simple reasons. First, it is fairer. Secondly, most of us would prefer windfarms to be built offshore rather than onshore. Thirdly, it is a most unusual, even unique, piece of legislation in that it cuts the burden of red tape rather than adds to it. I commend this to the House.

Yr wyf yn falch o gefnogi’r cynnig hwn am dri rheswm syml. Yn gyntaf, mae’n decach. Yn ail, byddai’n well gan y rhan fwyaf ohonom weld codi ffermydd gwynt ar y môr yn hytrach nag ar y tir. Yn drydydd, mae’n ddeddfwriaeth dra anarferol, ac unigryw hyd yn oed, i’r graddau ei bod yn lleihau baich biwrocratiaeth yn hytrach nag ychwanegu ato. Fe’i cymeradwyaf i’r Tŷ.

Glyn Davies spoken in English p. 60

Glyn Davies siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 60

To the Chamber.

I’r Siambr.

Dafydd Elis-Thomas The Presiding Officer spoken in English p. 60

Dafydd Elis-Thomas Y Llywydd siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 60

Well said.

Da iawn chi am ddweud.

Eleanor Burnham spoken in English p. 60

Eleanor Burnham siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 60

Although this motion merely amends the 2000 rules, and is mainly a technical issue, the Welsh Liberal Democrats support it because, in the long term, it will benefit the offshore windfarm industry. The anomaly was unacceptable and is rightly rectified by a sliding fee scale that reflects the likely administration costs that a typical offshore windfarm application, such as the one off the north Wales coast that Alun Pugh mentioned, would generate. We hope that, as a result of this amendment, there will be an increase in applications for offshore windfarms. Within the next two to three years, there could be as many as 10 applications each year for offshore windfarms in the navigable waters of England and Wales.

Er nad yw’r cynnig hwn ond yn diwygio rheolau 2000, ac yn fater technegol gan mwyaf, mae Democratiaid Rhyddfrydol Cymru’n ei gefnogi oherwydd, yn y tymor hir, bydd o les i’r diwydiant ffermydd gwynt ar y môr. Yr oedd yr anghysondeb yn annerbyniol ac fe’i cywirir yn briodol drwy osod graddfa ffïoedd symudol sy’n adlewyrchu’r costau gweinyddu tebygol y byddai cais nodweddiadol am fferm wynt ar y môr, fel yr un oddi ar arfordir y Gogledd y cyfeiriodd Alun Pugh ati, yn eu creu. Yr ydym yn gobeithio y bydd cynnydd yn nifer y ceisiadau am ffermydd gwynt ar y môr o ganlyniad i’r diwygiad hwn. O fewn y ddwy neu dair blynedd nesaf, gellid cael cynifer â 10 cais y flwyddyn am ffermydd gwynt ar y môr yn nyfroedd mordwyadwy Cymru a Lloegr.

As the true environmental party, the Welsh Liberal Democrats strongly believe in using renewable energy sources for a cleaner, more environmentally-friendly future and welcome this change as a step towards a future where all of our energy will be produced from renewable energy sources.

Fel y wir blaid amgylcheddol, mae Democratiaid Rhyddfrydol Cymru’n credu’n gryf mewn defnyddio ffynonellau ynni adnewyddadwy ar gyfer dyfodol glanach a mwy caredig at yr amgylchedd a chroesawn y newid hwn fel cam tuag at ddyfodol lle y cynhyrchir ein holl ynni o ffynonellau ynni adnewyddadwy.

Alun Cairns spoken in English p. 60

Alun Cairns siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 60

Uncharacteristically, I will oppose this motion. That is partly because of the possible visual impact of offshore windfarms, and because it is unproven technology. The visual impact on some of our prime tourist resorts, such as Porthcawl and the Gower coast, could have an adverse effect on one of the fastest growing sectors of the economy, namely tourism. We are playing with the businesses in those areas.

Yn annodweddiadol, byddaf yn gwrthwynebu’r cynnig hwn. Mae hynny’n rhannol oherwydd effaith weledol bosibl ffermydd gwynt ar y môr, ac am ei bod yn dechnoleg nas profwyd. Gallai’r effaith weledol ar rai o’n prif gyrchfannau twristaidd, fel Porthcawl a glannau Gŵyr, amharu ar un o’r sectorau sy’n tyfu’n gyflymaf yn yr economi, sef twristiaeth. Yr ydym yn chwarae â’r busnesau yn yr ardaloedd hynny.

Sue Essex The Minister for Environment spoken in English p. 61

Sue Essex Y Gweinidog dros yr Amgylchedd siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 61

Thank you for your comments. On Alun Pugh’s question, we will only be able to quantify those savings when planning applications under the Transport and Works Act orders have come in. We will then see the number of turbines involved. On David’s contribution, I welcome his endorsement; I may be tempted to remind him in future that he has approved of and commended what we are doing.

Diolch i chi am eich sylwadau. Ynghylch cwestiwn Alun Pugh, ni fyddwn yn gallu mesur yr arbedion hynny nes bydd y ceisiadau cynllunio dan orchmynion y Ddeddf Trafnidiaeth a Gweithfeydd wedi dod i mewn. Fe welwn wedyn nifer y tyrbinau sydd dan sylw. Ynghylch cyfraniad David, croesawaf ei gymeradwyaeth; efallai y caf fy nhemtio i’w atgoffa yn y dyfodol ei fod wedi cymeradwyo a chanmol yr hyn yr ydym yn ei wneud.

David Davies spoken in English p. 61

David Davies siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 61

It was only that one regulation.

Dim ond y rheoliad hwnnw ydoedd.

Dafydd Elis-Thomas The Presiding Officer spoken in English p. 61

Dafydd Elis-Thomas Y Llywydd siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 61

Order. Remarks would not be allowed from a sedentary position in the House either.

Trefn. Ni chaniateid i neb wneud sylwadau ar ei eistedd yn y Tŷ ychwaith.

Sue Essex spoken in English p. 61

Sue Essex siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 61

You might find that it is catching, David; you never know.

Efallai y cewch ei fod yn heintus, David; wyddoch chi ddim.

I am surprised that there is a split on this—perhaps it is not that surprising, given that there are differences of opinion on many matters. To reassure Alun Cairns, when the applications come in, they will be decided upon based on a wide range of factors. Visual impact will be a consideration along with the environmental impact. However, as Eleanor said, there is a presumption in this Chamber that we wish renewable energy production to be expanded, and in principle most people think that offshore windfarms offer an opportunity for the future.

Yr wyf yn synnu bod rhaniad ar hyn—efallai nad yw’n gymaint o syndod â hynny, gan fod gwahaniaethau barn ar lawer o faterion. Er mwyn tawelu meddwl Alun Cairns, pan ddaw’r ceisiadau i mewn, fe benderfynir arnynt ar sail amrediad eang o ffactorau. Bydd yr effaith weledol yn un ystyriaeth ynghyd â’r effaith amgylcheddol. Fodd bynnag, fel y dywedodd Eleanor, mae rhagdybiaeth yn y Siambr hon ein bod yn dymuno gweld ehangu ar gynhyrchu ynni adnewyddadwy, ac mewn egwyddor mae’r rhan fwyaf o bobl yn credu bod ffermydd gwynt ar y môr yn cynnig cyfle ar gyfer y dyfodol.

DerbyniwydAdopted O blaidFor 38 YmatalAbstain 0 Yn erbynAgainst 1

Derbyniwyd y cynnig.

Motion carried.

Sut y pleidleisiodd yr AelodauHow Members voted
O blaidFor (38)
  • Lorraine Barrett
  • Mick Bates
  • Peter Black
  • Eleanor Burnham
  • Rosemary Butler
  • Cynog Dafis
  • David Davies
  • Geraint Davies
  • Glyn Davies
  • Janet Davies
  • Ron Davies
  • Sue Essex
  • Michael German
  • William Graham
  • Janice Gregory
  • John Griffiths
  • Alison Halford
  • Brian Hancock
  • Edwina Hart
  • Jane Hutt
  • Ann Jones
  • Carwyn Jones
  • Elin Jones
  • Gareth Jones
  • Helen Mary Jones
  • Peter Law
  • David Lloyd
  • Val Lloyd
  • David Melding
  • Rhodri Morgan
  • Alun Pugh
  • Jenny Randerson
  • Peter Rogers
  • Janet Ryder
  • Karen Sinclair
  • Gwenda Thomas
  • Rhodri Glyn Thomas
  • Kirsty Williams
Yn erbynAgainst (1)
  • Alun Cairns

Daeth y Dirprwy Lywydd i’r Gadair am 11.12 a.m.

The Deputy Presiding Officer took the Chair at 11.12 a.m.

Adroddiad Blynyddol Cynllun y Sector Gwirfoddol

The Annual Report of the Voluntary Sector Scheme

John Marek The Deputy Presiding Officer spoken in English p. 62

John Marek Y Dirprwy Lywydd siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 62

I have selected amendment 1 in the name of Jocelyn Davies and amendment 2 in the name of Jonathan Morgan.

Yr wyf wedi dethol gwelliant 1 yn enw Jocelyn Davies a gwelliant 2 yn enw Jonathan Morgan.

Jane Hutt The Minister for Health and Social Services spoken in English p. 62

Jane Hutt Y Gweinidog dros Iechyd a Gwasanaethau Cymdeithasol siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 62

I propose that

Cynigiaf fod

Jane Hutt The Minister for Health and Social Services (continued) spoken in English p. 63

Jane Hutt Y Gweinidog dros Iechyd a Gwasanaethau Cymdeithasol (parhad) siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 63

In the two years since the Assembly adopted the voluntary sector scheme, significant progress has been made and much interest has been expressed in the scheme from within the UK, Europe and further afield. The motion and the two amendments that you are being asked to endorse today reflect our commitment to the scheme and the voluntary sector. We are leading the way in demonstrating how the voluntary sector is recognised, valued and included effectively in government business in Wales. The first annual report recognised that sound foundations have been built and raised expectations that the second report should provide greater detail on the scheme’s implementation across all the Assembly Government’s policy areas.

Yn y ddwy flynedd ers i’r Cynulliad fabwysiadu cynllun y sector gwirfoddol, gwnaed cryn gynnydd a mynegwyd llawer o ddiddordeb yn y cynllun o fewn y DU, Ewrop a’r tu hwnt. Mae’r cynnig a’r ddau welliant y gofynnir ichi eu cefnogi heddiw’n adlewyrchu ein hymrwymiad i’r cynllun ac i’r sector gwirfoddol. Yr ydym yn arloesi o ran dangos sut y caiff y sector gwirfoddol ei gydnabod, ei werthfawrogi a’i gynnwys yn effeithiol ym musnes llywodraeth yng Nghymru. Yr oedd yr adroddiad blynyddol cyntaf yn cydnabod bod seiliau cadarn wedi’u gosod a chododd ddisgwyliadau y byddai’r ail adroddiad yn rhoi mwy o fanylion am weithrediad y cynllun yn holl feysydd polisi Llywodraeth y Cynulliad.

The second annual report details the key actions delivered in relation to health, equality and diversity, agriculture, housing, the environment and the economic development of Wales. I am sure that you will be impressed with the wealth of action undertaken in 2001-02. The report is not, and cannot be, an exhaustive record of all activity. There are many other examples of where the voluntary sector has influenced policy and ensured its implementation throughout Wales, and we recognise this in debates in the Chamber. For example, we did so in the debate on ‘Fulfilling the Promises’ last week, and on the carers strategy last month. The voluntary sector played a key role in those issues.

Mae’r ail adroddiad blynyddol yn rhestru’r camau allweddol a gymerwyd mewn cysylltiad ag iechyd, cydraddoldeb ac amrywiaeth, amaethyddiaeth, tai, yr amgylchedd a datblygu economaidd yng Nghymru. Yr wyf yn sicr y bydd y doreth o weithgarwch a gyflawnwyd yn 2001-02 yn gwneud argraff arnoch. Nid yw’r adroddiad yn gofnod hollgynhwysol o’r gweithgarwch, ac ni allai fod. Mae llawer o enghreifftiau eraill o’r modd y mae’r sector gwirfoddol wedi dylanwadu ar bolisi a sicrhau ei fod yn cael ei roi ar waith ledled Cymru, ac yr ydym yn cydnabod hynny mewn dadleuon yn y Siambr. Er enghraifft, fe wnaethom hynny yn y ddadl ar ‘Gwireddu’r Addewidion’ yr wythnos diwethaf, ac ar y strategaeth i ofalwyr y mis diwethaf. Yr oedd gan y sector gwirfoddol rôl allweddol yn y materion hynny.

The motion records the value that the voluntary sector brings to our work and its contribution to policy formulation. Amendment 1 in the name of Jocelyn Davies expands on this to reflect the sector’s role in supporting our key cross-cutting themes of sustainable development, equality of opportunity, social inclusion and the development of a bilingual Wales. Therefore, I thank Plaid Cymru for its amendment.

Mae’r cynnig yn cofnodi’r gwerth y mae’r sector gwirfoddol yn ei ddwyn i’n gwaith a’i gyfraniad at lunio polisi. Mae gwelliant 1 yn enw Jocelyn Davies yn ymhelaethu ar hynny i adlewyrchu rôl y sector wrth gefnogi ein themâu trawsbynciol allweddol, sef datblygu cynaliadwy, cyfle cyfartal, cynhwysiant cymdeithasol a’r gwaith o feithrin Cymru ddwyieithog. Felly, diolchaf i Blaid Cymru am ei gwelliant.

A key milestone in 2001-02 was the publication of the code of practice for funding the voluntary sector. I thank Jonathan Morgan for amendment 2, which acknowledges the importance of the code’s publication and the principles it reflects. For those of you who have not been able to obtain a copy of the code, copies will be available in conference room D on the first floor, after this Plenary session. I hope that Members will go there to meet colleagues from the voluntary sector, including Tom Jones, chair of the Wales Council for Voluntary Action. I cordially extend an invitation to all of you to come and discuss the code of practice informally. The code provides clear guidance on, and expectations for, funding the voluntary sector, and will be regularly updated and reviewed. The Assembly and its sponsored bodies are expected to adhere to the code’s principles, and the code is also being used as a template in policy development elsewhere. Amendment 2 includes reference to local authorities abiding by the code, and, in supporting the amendment, we recognise that it is for individual local authorities to decide whether to adopt the code’s principles; many are heading in that direction.

Un garreg filltir allweddol yn 2001-02 oedd cyhoeddi’r cod ymarfer ar gyfer ariannu’r sector gwirfoddol. Diolchaf i Jonathan Morgan am welliant 2, sy’n cydnabod mor bwysig oedd cyhoeddi’r cod a’r egwyddorion y mae’n eu hadlewyrchu. I’r rhai ohonoch nad ydych wedi gallu cael copi o’r cod, bydd copïau ohono ar gael yn ystafell gynadledda D ar y llawr cyntaf, ar ôl y Cyfarfod Llawn hwn. Gobeithiaf yr aiff yr Aelodau yno i gwrdd â gweithwyr yn y sector gwirfoddol, gan gynnwys Tom Jones, cadeirydd Cyngor Gweithredu Gwirfoddol Cymru. Estynnaf wahoddiad cynnes i bawb ohonoch ddod i drafod y cod ymarfer yn anffurfiol. Mae’r cod yn rhoi canllawiau clir ar ariannu’r sector gwirfoddol a’r disgwyliadau ynghylch hynny, a chaiff ei ddiweddaru a’i adolygu’n rheolaidd. Disgwylir i’r Cynulliad a’r cyrff y mae’n eu noddi lynu wrth egwyddorion y cod, a defnyddir y cod hefyd fel patrwm ar gyfer datblygu polisi mewn mannau eraill. Cyfeiria gwelliant 2 at awdurdodau lleol yn glynu at y cod, ac, wrth gefnogi’r gwelliant, yr ydym yn cydnabod mai mater i awdurdodau lleol unigol yw penderfynu a fyddant yn mabwysiadu egwyddorion y cod; mae llawer yn mynd i’r cyfeiriad hwnnw.

Much remains to be done and the Welsh Assembly Government, the Welsh Local Government Association, and the Wales Council for Voluntary Action are working together to draw up a good practice guide for local government working with the voluntary sector. In doing so, it will be able to draw on the Assembly’s experience of developing and implementing the code of practice for funding the voluntary sector. One of the code’s key messages is that the sector should receive three-year funding wherever possible, with indicative budgets being provided for years 2 and 3. Grant receipt is subject to satisfactory outcomes and the availability of resources, but this step change in the way we treat the sector is fundamental to providing stability, sustainability and clarity of purpose.

Mae llawer iawn i’w wneud o hyd ac mae Llywodraeth Cynulliad Cymru, Cymdeithas Llywodraeth Leol Cymru, a Chyngor Gweithredu Gwirfoddol Cymru’n cydweithio i lunio canllawiau arfer da ar gyfer gwaith llywodraeth leol gyda’r sector gwirfoddol. Wrth wneud hynny, bydd yn gallu manteisio ar brofiad y Cynulliad o ddatblygu a gweithredu’r cod ymarfer ar gyfer ariannu’r sector gwirfoddol. Un o’r prif negeseuon yn y cod yw y dylai’r sector dderbyn cyllid dros dair blynedd lle bynnag y bo modd, ac y dylid darparu cyllidebau dynodol ar gyfer blynyddoedd 2 a 3. Rhoddir grantiau ar yr amod bod y canlyniadau’n foddhaol a bod adnoddau ar gael, ond mae’r newid sylweddol hwn yn y modd yr ydym yn trin y sector yn hanfodol i roi sefydlogrwydd, cynaliadwyedd ac eglurdeb pwrpas.

The Assembly Government recognises the need to increase the capacity of the sector if it is to fully participate in the scheme’s implementation. The second annual report reflects action instigated last year, and we have taken further steps in this new financial year to ensure that capacity is maintained.

Mae Llywodraeth y Cynulliad yn cydnabod yr angen i gynyddu capasiti’r sector os ydyw i gyfranogi’n llawn yng ngweithrediad y cynllun. Mae’r ail adroddiad blynyddol yn adlewyrchu’r camau a gychwynnwyd y llynedd, ac yr ydym wedi cymryd camau pellach yn y flwyddyn ariannol newydd hon i sicrhau y caiff y capasiti ei gynnal.

Participation is one of the most rewarding results of the scheme. It demonstrates how we can work even more effectively when we work in partnership, both locally and nationally. A clear example of this new way of working was demonstrated by the way the sector worked with the Assembly Government to ensure that the services previously provided by the Children’s Society were retained and maintained in Wales. I will not dwell on that unfortunate episode, but I commend the sector, officials and Assembly Members—particularly Ann Jones, who took a leading role—for their swift and positive action.

Cyfranogi yw un o ganlyniadau mwyaf buddiol y cynllun. Mae’n dangos sut y gallwn weithio’n fwy effeithiol byth pan weithiwn mewn partneriaeth, yn lleol ac yn genedlaethol. Cafwyd enghraifft glir o’r dull newydd hwn o weithio yn y modd y gweithiodd y sector gyda Llywodraeth y Cynulliad i sicrhau y câi’r gwasanaethau a ddarperid gynt gan Gymdeithas y Plant eu cynnal a’u cadw yng Nghymru. Nid ymhelaethaf ar y digwyddiad anffodus hwnnw, ond canmolaf y sector, swyddogion ac Aelodau’r Cynulliad—yn enwedig Ann Jones, a gymerodd ran flaenllaw—am y camau cyflym a chadarnhaol a gymerasant.

In summary, we achieved much in the financial year 2001-02, and we are proud of the contents of the second annual report. However, there is still much to be done. The fact that we have a unique scheme and have formed a unique partnership with the voluntary sector and volunteers in Wales will not make us complacent. Like all good relationships, it needs to be maintained and stretched further to forge new partnerships and embrace innovation in how we respond to communities in Wales. That will be our greatest challenge. I commend the report to the Assembly, and urge you to support the motion.

I grynhoi, gwnaethom gyflawni llawer yn y flwyddyn ariannol 2001-02, ac yr ydym yn falch o gynnwys yr ail adroddiad blynyddol. Er hynny, mae llawer i’w wneud eto. Ni fydd y ffaith bod gennym gynllun unigryw a’n bod wedi ffurfio partneriaeth unigryw gyda’r sector gwirfoddol a gwirfoddolwyr yng Nghymru’n peri inni fod yn ddifater. Fel pob perthynas dda, mae angen ei chynnal a’i hymestyn ymhellach i ffurfio partneriaethau newydd a chroesawu dulliau arloesol o ymateb i gymunedau yng Nghymru. Honno fydd yr her fwyaf i ni. Cymeradwyaf yr adroddiad i’r Cynulliad, ac fe’ch hanogaf i gefnogi’r cynnig.

Helen Mary Jones spoken in English p. 65

Helen Mary Jones siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 65

I propose amendment 1 in the name of Jocelyn Davies. In point 2, insert after ‘process’:

Cynigiaf welliant 1 yn enw Jocelyn Davies. Ym mhwynt 2, ychwanegu ar ôl ‘Cenedlaethol’:

Helen Mary Jones (continued) spoken in English p. 66

Helen Mary Jones (parhad) siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 66

The Plaid Cymru—The Party of Wales group in the Assembly welcomes the publication of this second annual report. We will support the motion and amendment 2. I will address amendment 1 and then raise concerns which I believe the Minister shares, and which she may want to address in her response to the debate.

Mae grŵp Plaid Cymru—The Party of Wales yn y Cynulliad yn croesawu cyhoeddi’r ail adroddiad blynyddol hwn. Byddwn yn cefnogi’r cynnig a gwelliant 2. Ymdriniaf â gwelliant 1 ac wedyn soniaf am bryderon y credaf fod y Gweinidog yn eu rhannu, ac y gallai ddymuno ymdrin â hwy yn ei hymateb i’r ddadl.

I am grateful to the Minister for her support for amendment 1. The motion outlines the vital role that the voluntary sector plays in promoting and developing Assembly policy, but we believe that the sector has a particular role in and brings particular expertise to dealing with issues that the statutory sector has traditionally found it harder to deal with. The Assembly’s cross-cutting themes in this regard are particularly obvious. The Assembly, Committees and Ministers have drawn extensively on the expertise of women’s organisations, black and ethnic minority voluntary groups, disability organisations, the growing number of lesbian and gay groups in Wales, and the environmental sector, which is vital to the promoting of the sustainable development agenda. Their role has been vital in helping us to develop more effective policy and in providing a reality check on delivery. For example, the report mentions the welcome discussions that CADW has held with disability organisations about access to historic buildings. However, the experience of the local disabled access group in Llanelli, my constituency, suggests that, although CADW is getting its act together at a national level, there is a lack of understanding of these issues at a local level. It is important that we as an Assembly, and as local politicians, respond to concerns when we are told that key actions are not being delivered. It is also important that we ensure the participation of the voluntary sector in decision-making and policy development processes and in monitoring. That is important for all groups—I acknowledge that positive steps have been taken this year—but it is especially important for those groups representing traditionally under-represented and historically excluded groups—I prefer the good old 1960s word, ‘oppressed’. Positive progress has been made, but we must go further in facilitating participation.

Yr wyf yn ddiolchgar i’r Gweinidog am ei chefnogaeth i welliant 1. Mae’r cynnig yn amlinellu’r rôl hollbwysig y mae’r sector gwirfoddol yn ei chwarae wrth hyrwyddo a datblygu polisi’r Cynulliad, ond credwn fod rôl benodol i’r sector a bod ganddo arbenigedd penodol o ran ymdrin â materion y mae’r sector statudol, yn draddodiadol, yn ei chael yn anos ymdrin â hwy. Mae lle amlwg i themâu trawsbynciol y Cynulliad yn hyn o beth. Mae’r Cynulliad, y Pwyllgorau a’r Gweinidogion wedi gwneud defnydd helaeth o arbenigedd mudiadau menywod, grwpiau gwirfoddol lleiafrifoedd du ac ethnig, mudiadau anabledd, y nifer gynyddol o grwpiau lesbiaidd a hoyw yng Nghymru, a’r sector amgylcheddol, sy’n hollbwysig o ran hybu’r agenda datblygu cynaliadwy. Bu eu rôl yn hollbwysig wrth ein helpu i ddatblygu polisi mwy effeithiol ac wrth wirio i ba raddau y cafodd ei gyflawni. Er enghraifft, mae’r adroddiad yn sôn am y trafodaethau a gynhaliodd CADW â mudiadau anabledd ynghylch mynediad i adeiladau hanesyddol, yr ydym yn eu croesawu. Fodd bynnag, mae profiad y grŵp mynediad anabledd lleol yn Llanelli, fy etholaeth i, yn awgrymu bod diffyg dealltwriaeth o’r materion hyn ar lefel leol, er gwaethaf y ffaith bod CADW yn gwneud cynnydd ar lefel genedlaethol. Mae’n bwysig ein bod ni fel Cynulliad, ac fel gwleidyddion lleol, yn ymateb i bryderon pan ddywedir wrthym nad yw camau allweddol yn cael eu cyflawni. Mae hefyd yn bwysig inni sicrhau bod y sector gwirfoddol yn cyfranogi yn y prosesau penderfynu a datblygu polisi ac mewn monitro. Mae hynny’n bwysig i bob grŵp—yr wyf yn cydnabod bod camau cadarnhaol wedi’u cymryd eleni—ond mae’n arbennig o bwysig i’r grwpiau hynny sy’n cynrychioli grwpiau sydd wedi’u tangynrychioli’n draddodiadol neu eu hallgáu’n hanesyddol—mae’n well gennyf fi hen air y 1960au, ‘gormesu’. Cafwyd cynnydd cadarnhaol, ond rhaid inni fynd ymhellach o ran hwyluso cyfranogi.

The partnership at a national level is beginning to deliver change. As noted in amendment 2, which we will happily support, the code of practice on funding is important. However, some issues remain unresolved at a national level. I will refer to two of these briefly and seek the Minister’s response. The first is ministerial meetings. The biannual, properly structured meetings between Assembly Ministers and the voluntary organisations in their portfolio areas are innovative and welcome. However, issues of follow-through and delivery remain unresolved. How do the National Assembly and the Voluntary Sector Partnership Council monitor the commitments made in those meetings and how do we deal with issues that are raised and which the Minister then refuses to take forward? At present, arrangements operate well on the whole, but that is mainly because of the goodwill shown by certain Ministers. Practice varies according to the Minister. We need to clarify accountability and the role of the Partnership Council, and we need to explore a role for Assembly Committees. We need transparent and formal mechanisms.

Mae’r bartneriaeth ar lefel genedlaethol yn dechrau cyflawni newid. Fel y nodir yng ngwelliant 2, y byddwn yn falch o’i gefnogi, mae’r cod ymarfer ar ariannu’n bwysig. Er hynny, mae rhai materion heb eu datrys o hyd ar lefel genedlaethol. Cyfeiriaf at ddau ohonynt yn fyr a cheisio ymateb gan y Gweinidog. Y cyntaf yw cyfarfodydd gweinidogol. Mae’r cyfarfodydd hanner blynyddol strwythuredig rhwng Gweinidogion y Cynulliad a’r cyrff a’r mudiadau gwirfoddol o fewn meysydd eu portffolio yn arloesol ac yn dderbyniol. Fodd bynnag, mae rhai materion o ran camau dilynol a chyflawni heb eu datrys. Sut y mae’r Cynulliad Cenedlaethol a Chyngor Partneriaeth y Sector Gwirfoddol yn monitro’r ymrwymiadau a wneir yn y cyfarfodydd hynny a sut yr ydym i ymdrin â materion a godir y mae’r Gweinidog wedyn yn gwrthod eu datblygu ymhellach? Ar hyn o bryd, mae’r trefniadau’n gweithio’n dda at ei gilydd, ond mae hynny’n bennaf oherwydd yr ewyllys da a amlygir gan rai Gweinidogion. Mae’r arfer yn amrywio yn ôl y Gweinidog. Rhaid inni roi gwedd eglurach ar atebolrwydd a rôl y Cyngor Partneriaeth, a rhaid inni ymchwilio i ganfod rôl i Bwyllgorau’r Cynulliad. Mae arnom angen peirianweithiau tryloyw a ffurfiol.

Similar issues arise in relation to the Partnership Council itself. What are the mechanisms for following up decisions or recommendations made by the Partnership Council? What is the line of accountability and how should the Government respond to issues that are raised? I am not questioning what is currently happening. The Minister’s commitment and her capacity to deliver are clear and we welcome that. However, we need a robust system that is not dependent on the goodwill or expertise of a particular Minister.

Mae materion tebyg yn codi mewn cysylltiad â’r Cyngor Partneriaeth ei hun. Pa beirianweithiau sydd ar gael i fynd ar drywydd penderfyniadau neu argymhellion a wneir gan y Cyngor Partneriaeth? Beth yw’r llinell atebolrwydd a sut y dylai’r Llywodraeth ymateb i faterion a godir? Nid wyf yn cwestiynu’r hyn sy’n digwydd ar hyn o bryd. Mae ymrwymiad y Gweinidog a’i gallu i gyflawni’n eglur a chroesawn hynny. Fodd bynnag, mae arnom angen system gadarn nad yw’n ddibynnol ar ewyllys da neu arbenigedd Gweinidog penodol.

Positive action is being taken nationally. However, I have real concerns about local delivery, particularly about the willingness of some local authorities to enter into meaningful partnerships. There are huge regional variations. The Minister mentioned the code of good practice, to which we all look forward to seeing and which we will no doubt support. However, what will the National Assembly Government do if some local authorities will not co-operate or respond?

Cymerir camau cadarnhaol yn genedlaethol. Fodd bynnag, mae gennyf bryderon gwirioneddol ynghylch cyflawni ar lefel leol, yn enwedig ynghylch parodrwydd rhai awdurdodau lleol i ffurfio partneriaethau ystyrlon. Mae amrywiadau mawr rhwng y rhanbarthau. Cyfeiriodd y Gweinidog at y cod arfer da, yr ydym oll yn edrych ymlaen at ei weld ac y byddwn yn siŵr o’i gefnogi. Fodd bynnag, beth a wnaiff Llywodraeth Cynulliad Cymru os na wnaiff rhai awdurdodau lleol gydweithredu neu ymateb?

John Marek The Deputy Presiding Officer spoken in English p. 68

John Marek Y Dirprwy Lywydd siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 68

Order. You must finish now.

Trefn. Rhaid ichi orffen yn awr.

Helen Mary Jones spoken in English p. 68

Helen Mary Jones siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 68

I am coming to an end. May I finish with one sentence?

Yr wyf yn nesu tua’r diwedd. A gaf sbel fach i orffen?

John Marek The Deputy Presiding Officer spoken in English p. 68

John Marek Y Dirprwy Lywydd siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 68

Yes.

Cewch.

Rhodri Glyn Thomas spoken in English p. 68

Rhodri Glyn Thomas siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 68

A sentence of 10 years.

Sbel o 10 mlynedd.

Helen Mary Jones spoken in English p. 68

Helen Mary Jones siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 68

Ten years is too long, Rhodri Glyn. The Assembly should be proud of its Partnership Council and the scheme. However, we must also address some of the difficult issues. I look forward to the Minister’s response to the issues that I raised and I trust that the next annual report will set out how we have addressed them.

Mae 10 mlynedd yn rhy hir, Rhodri Glyn. Dylai’r Cynulliad ymfalchïo yn ei Gyngor Partneriaeth ac yn y cynllun. Er hynny, rhaid inni hefyd ymdrin â rhai o’r materion anodd sy’n codi. Edrychaf ymlaen at glywed ymateb y Gweinidog i’r materion yr wyf wedi’u codi a hyderaf y bydd yr adroddiad blynyddol nesaf yn nodi sut yr ydym wedi ymdrin â hwy.

David Melding spoken in English p. 68

David Melding siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 68

I propose amendment 2 in the name of Jonathan Morgan. At the end of the motion add a new point:

Cynigiaf welliant 2 yn enw Jonathan Morgan. Ychwanegu pwynt newydd ar ddiwedd y cynnig:

David Melding (continued) spoken in English p. 68

David Melding (parhad) siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 68

This is destined to be a debate with a large degree of consensus. For me, consensus means that, when we broadly agree with the actions of the Government or the Assembly, we should say so. We should not just enter into gratuitous opposition. However, I have not been elected just to support the Government. I assure the Minister that, on other matters, she will not enjoy as easy a time as she will probably get this morning. I am anticipating; I do not know how the course of the debate will unfold.

Tynghedwyd y ddadl hon i fod yn un ag ynddi lawer o gonsensws. I mi, mae hynny’n golygu, pan ydym yn cytuno’n gyffredinol â gweithredoedd y Llywodraeth neu’r Cynulliad, y dylem ddweud hynny. Ni ddylem wrthwynebu heb achos. Fodd bynnag, ni’m hetholwyd i gefnogi’r Llywodraeth yn unig. Yr wyf yn sicrhau’r Gweinidog na chaiff amser mor rhwydd ar faterion eraill ag y mae’n debygol o’i gael y bore yma. Hynny yr wyf yn ei ddisgwyl; ni wn beth fydd hynt y ddadl.

The partnership with the voluntary sector has been groundbreaking. Other parts of the UK now seek to emulate us, which is pleasing. We have a vigorous voluntary sector, which in the last three years has been encouraged by the attention and emphasis it has given by the Assembly. It is early days; we are reaching a position where we have quite an accurate audit of how we co-operate with the sector and take its participation forward in policy development and a range of other issues. We now need to use that audit to measure future progress. Input from the voluntary sector is important in that regard. The voluntary sector’s view of our progress ought, perhaps, to be an aspect of our report on the voluntary sector, to ensure a degree of independence in our proceedings.

Bu’r bartneriaeth â’r sector gwirfoddol yn un arloesol. Mae rhannau eraill o’r DU yn ceisio ein hefelychu’n awr, sy’n beth braf. Mae gennym sector gwirfoddol bywiog, sydd wedi’i hybu yn y tair blynedd diwethaf gan y sylw a’r pwyslais a roddwyd iddo gan y Cynulliad. Dim ond dyddiau cynnar yw’r rhain; yr ydym yn cyrraedd sefyllfa lle y mae gennym archwiliad eithaf cywir o’r modd yr ydym yn cydweithredu â’r sector ac yn bwrw ymlaen gyda’i gyfranogiad wrth ddatblygu polisi ac mewn amryw o faterion eraill. Rhaid inni ddefnyddio’r archwiliad hwnnw’n awr i fesur y cynnydd yn y dyfodol. Mae’r mewnbwn gan y sector gwirfoddol yn bwysig yn hynny o beth. Efallai y dylai barn y sector gwirfoddol am ein cynnydd fod yn agwedd ar ein hadroddiad ar y sector gwirfoddol, i sicrhau rhywfaint o annibyniaeth yn ein trafodion.

I have enjoyed the Voluntary Sector Partnership Council meetings. They have worked well and the Minister is to be commended on how she conducts those meetings. Though it must sometimes put a strain on the sector, the fact that the voluntary sector prepares papers for our consideration, for instance, instead of the Assembly secretariat doing so, shows what can happen if you have a vigorous partnership. The Minister will probably agree that Assembly Members’ attendance of meetings has been a little disappointing, both in terms of the numbers who attend and in terms of how many can stay for the duration of the meeting. The voluntary sector has sometimes been disappointed by the fact that rather poor attendance has become the norm. Party groups should ensure that attendance reflects the importance that we place on the Voluntary Sector Partnership Council.

Yr wyf wedi mwynhau cyfarfodydd Cyngor Partneriaeth y Sector Gwirfoddol. Maent wedi gweithio’n dda ac mae’r Gweinidog i’w chanmol am y modd y mae’n arwain y cyfarfodydd hynny. Er ei bod yn sicr o beri straen i’r sector o bryd i’w gilydd, mae’r ffaith bod y sector gwirfoddol yn paratoi papurau i’w hystyried gennym, er enghraifft, yn hytrach na bod ysgrifenyddiaeth y Cynulliad yn gwneud hynny, yn dangos beth all ddigwydd os oes gennych bartneriaeth fywiog. Mae’n debyg y bydd y Gweinidog yn cytuno bod presenoldeb Aelodau’r Cynulliad yn y cyfarfodydd wedi bod braidd yn siomedig, o ran y nifer sy’n ymbresenoli ac o ran y nifer sy’n gallu aros drwy’r cyfarfod ar ei hyd. Mae’r sector gwirfoddol wedi’i siomi weithiau am fod presenoldeb gwael wedi dod yn norm. Dylai’r grwpiau plaid sicrhau bod eu presenoldeb yn adlewyrchu’r pwys a roddwn ar Gyngor Partneriaeth y Sector Gwirfoddol.

I am pleased that the Minister supports amendment 2. The code is an innovative step forward and it is important that it is applied consistently by the Assembly and by Assembly sponsored public bodies, local authorities, the health service and so on. I am pleased that the Minister is acting in the spirit of consensus so that we can all contribute to improving the partnership with the voluntary sector.

Yr wyf yn falch bod y Gweinidog yn cefnogi gwelliant 2. Mae’r cod yn gam arloesol ymlaen ac mae’n bwysig iddo gael ei gymhwyso’n gyson gan y Cynulliad a chan y cyrff cyhoeddus a noddir gan y Cynulliad, awdurdodau lleol, y gwasanaeth iechyd ac yn y blaen. Yr wyf yn falch bod y Gweinidog yn gweithredu’n gydnaws â’r consensws fel y gallwn oll gyfrannu at wella’r bartneriaeth â’r sector gwirfoddol.

The Assembly is, above all, about policy formulation, and political parties are about developing policy alternatives and policy platforms to further the Assembly’s work. The voluntary sector has a vital role to play in both modes of policy formulation. We are starting to grasp this aspect in the Assembly, but it is a slow process as it is, sadly, a new innovation. The meetings with Ministers are key to this, as is early consultation on the work of Subject Committees. It is not a matter of ‘publish and consult’, but of engaging with the sector to prepare consultation documents so that, from the earliest stages to completion, the voluntary sector is involved. There is still much to learn, but the signs are encouraging.

Mae’r Cynulliad yn ymwneud, yn fwy na dim, â llunio polisi, ac mae’r pleidiau gwleidyddol yn ymwneud â datblygu dewisiadau polisi a llwyfannau polisi i hyrwyddo gwaith y Cynulliad. Mae gan y sector gwirfoddol rôl hollbwysig i’w chwarae yn y ddau ddull o lunio polisi. Yr ydym yn dechrau amgyffred yr agwedd honno yn y Cynulliad, ond proses araf ydyw, gwaetha’r modd, gan ei fod yn beth newydd. Mae’r cyfarfodydd â’r Gweinidogion yn hollbwysig i hyn, fel y mae ymgynghori cynnar ar waith y Pwyllgorau Pwnc. Nid yw’n fater o ‘gyhoeddi ac ymgynghori’, ond o gysylltu â’r sector er mwyn paratoi dogfennau ymgynghori fel bod y sector gwirfoddol yn cymryd rhan o’r cyfnod cynharaf hyd ei gwblhau. Mae llawer i’w ddysgu o hyd, ond mae’r arwyddion yn galonogol.

Finally, I hope that it is appropriate, as we enter the final year of this Assembly, to remind ourselves that all political parties are preparing their manifestos. It is to the Assembly’s benefit that all parties should develop coherent manifestos—with certain alternatives in them, obviously. The voluntary sector must also be effectively engaged in that process and I am pleased that my party is paying particular attention to that at present.

Yn olaf, yr wyf yn gobeithio ei bod yn briodol inni ein hatgoffa ein hunain, wrth inni ddod i flwyddyn olaf y Cynulliad hwn, fod yr holl bleidiau gwleidyddol yn paratoi eu maniffestos. Mae er budd y Cynulliad i’r holl bleidiau ddatblygu maniffestos cydlynol—gan gynnwys rhai dewisiadau, wrth gwrs. Rhaid cynnwys y sector gwirfoddol yn y broses honno hefyd ac yr wyf yn falch bod fy mhlaid i’n rhoi sylw penodol i hynny ar hyn o bryd.

Ann Jones spoken in English p. 70

Ann Jones siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 70

I welcome the voluntary sector scheme and the Minister’s comments. Paragraph 50 of the report mentions UK voluntary organisations working in Wales, and I must refer to the Children’s Society, and the awful day when it decided to pull out of Wales. I am extremely disappointed with the Charity Commission’s feeble response. It is feeble in that it is only interested in the financial stability of the Children’s Society and refuses to address the impact of the society’s decision to pull out of Wales. However, although the decision was damaging, every cloud has a silver lining. In this case, the silver lining is the dedication of the staff and the volunteers of what was the Children’s Society. They all stood together and were prepared to work together; I am proud to have played my part in the task group that maintained that work.

Croesawaf gynllun y sector gwirfoddol a sylwadau’r Gweinidog. Mae paragraff 50 o’r adroddiad yn sôn am gyrff gwirfoddol y DU sy’n gweithio yng Nghymru, a rhaid imi gyfeirio at Gymdeithas y Plant, a’r diwrnod ofnadwy y penderfynodd dynnu allan o Gymru. Yr wyf wedi siomi’n fawr yn ymateb gwan y Comisiwn Elusennau. Mae’n wan i’r graddau nad yw ond yn ymddiddori yn sefydlogrwydd ariannol Cymdeithas y Plant a’i fod yn gwrthod ymdrin ag effaith penderfyniad y gymdeithas i dynnu allan o Gymru. Fodd bynnag, er bod y penderfyniad yn niweidiol, mae ymyl arian i bob cwmwl du. Yn yr achos hwn, yr ymyl arian yw ymroddiad cyn staff a gwirfoddolwyr Cymdeithas y Plant. Safasant gyda’i gilydd ac yr oeddent yn barod i weithio gyda’i gilydd; yr wyf yn falch fy mod wedi chwarae fy rhan yn y grŵp gorchwyl a barhaodd y gwaith hwnnw.

The protocol that was agreed earlier this year by the Assembly, the Wales Council for Voluntary Action, and the UK-wide voluntary organisations still working in Wales, is an important development. No-one can deny the importance of the voluntary sector in Wales. It adds value and brings innovative approaches to the Assembly’s radical, visionary approach to building social inclusion and active communities across Wales. Voluntary groups do not need huge bureaucratic mechanisms, and many people do not seek recognition for their work in the voluntary sector. However, we should acknowledge that they are vital to the work of the Assembly.

Mae’r protocol a gytunwyd yn gynharach eleni gan y Cynulliad, Cyngor Gweithredu Gwirfoddol Cymru, a chyrff gwirfoddol y DU gyfan sy’n dal i weithio yng Nghymru, yn ddatblygiad o bwys. Ni all neb wadu pwysigrwydd y sector gwirfoddol yng Nghymru. Mae’n ychwanegu gwerth ac yn dod â dulliau arloesol at agwedd radical, weledigaethol y Cynulliad at feithrin cynhwysiant cymdeithasol a chymunedau gweithredol ledled Cymru. Nid oes ar grwpiau gwirfoddol angen peirianweithiau biwrocrataidd anferth, ac mae llawer o bobl nad ydynt yn ceisio cydnabyddiaeth am eu gwaith yn y sector gwirfoddol. Fodd bynnag, dylem gydnabod eu bod yn hollbwysig i waith y Cynulliad.

To succeed, we need real community partnerships, and fully integrated voluntary organisations working alongside statutory organisations. That is why I hope that the local authority in my area recognises the voluntary sector in its efforts to build the Vale of Clwyd, and Rhyl in particular, back up to what it used to be. Good community spirit exists in Wales—it exists in my constituency, as in all other constituencies. Today’s debate, once again, acknowledges the role of the voluntary sector, and reminds us that we could not work without it.

Er mwyn llwyddo, mae arnom angen partneriaethau cymunedol gwirioneddol, a chyrff gwirfoddol cwbl integredig sy’n gweithio ochr yn ochr â’r cyrff statudol. Dyna pam yr wyf yn gobeithio bod yr awdurdod lleol yn fy ardal i’n cydnabod y sector gwirfoddol yn ei ymdrechion i adfer Dyffryn Clwyd, a’r Rhyl yn enwedig, i’r hyn ydoedd. Ceir ysbryd cymunedol da yng Nghymru—fe’i ceir yn fy etholaeth i, fel y’i ceir ym mhob etholaeth arall. Mae’r ddadl hon heddiw, unwaith eto, yn cydnabod rôl y sector gwirfoddol, ac yn ein hatgoffa na allem weithio hebddo.

John Marek The Deputy Presiding Officer spoken in English p. 71

John Marek Y Dirprwy Lywydd siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 71

I appreciate Members’ help in making brief speeches where possible. Please keep it up, because we are still short of time.

Gwerthfawrogaf y cymorth y mae’r Aelodau yn ei roi drwy wneud areithiau byr lle y bo hynny’n bosibl. Daliwch ati, os gwelwch yn dda, gan ein bod yn dal i fod yn brin o amser.

Janet Ryder spoken in English p. 72

Janet Ryder siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 72

I declare an interest as a member of Ruthin Town Council, as chair of Canolfan Awelon community centre, and as a patron of Gweini.

Datganaf fuddiant fel aelod o Gyngor Tref Rhuthun, cadeirydd canolfan gymunedol Canolfan Awelon, ac un o noddwyr Gweini.

I will concentrate on section 23 of the report, which mentions voluntary sector networks. It is my understanding that the Voluntary Sector Partnership Council, on a national level, draws together representatives of the different sectors and areas of interest in which voluntary organisations operate—education, health, advocacy, children and families, and so on. In addition, the WCVA is also represented on the partnership. Section 23 of the report mentions the need for dissemination of information and the need to collect ideas from organisations in their areas of interest. Presumably, therefore, each area of interest represented on the Partnership Council would talk to groups in its own area of interest in all parts of Wales. That would mean a meeting of education groups, a meeting of advocacy groups, a meeting of children and families groups, and so on.

Canolbwyntiaf ar adran 23 o’r adroddiad, sy’n sôn am rwydweithiau’r sector gwirfoddol. Yn ôl a ddeallaf, mae Cyngor Partneriaeth y Sector Gwirfoddol, ar lefel genedlaethol, yn tynnu cynrychiolwyr at ei gilydd o’r gwahanol sectorau a meysydd diddordeb lle y mae cyrff gwirfoddol yn gweithredu—addysg, iechyd, eiriolaeth, plant a theuluoedd, ac yn y blaen. Yn ogystal â hynny, cynrychiolir Cyngor Gweithredu Gwirfoddol Cymru yn y bartneriaeth hefyd. Mae adran 23 o’r adroddiad yn sôn am yr angen i ledaenu gwybodaeth a’r angen i gasglu syniadau oddi wrth gyrff ym meysydd eu diddordeb. Gellid tybio, felly, y byddai pob maes diddordeb a gynrychiolir ar y Cyngor Partneriaeth yn siarad â grwpiau yn yr un maes diddordeb ym mhob rhan o Gymru. Golygai hynny gyfarfod o grwpiau addysg, cyfarfod o grwpiau eiriolaeth, cyfarfod o grwpiau plant a theuluoedd, ac yn y blaen.

Alongside this is the WCVA, which is an umbrella organisation on a national level drawing together representatives of the whole voluntary sector in Wales. Then there are local councils for voluntary action, which are umbrella organisations responsible for drawing together and representing the voluntary sector in their own areas. As an outsider, and as someone who does not sit on the Partnership Council, I find this slightly confusing. Will the Minister explain how these groups relate to each other, and how they feed back to their own partnership councils? How do you ensure that the ideas, the aspirations, the hopes and the fears of all local voluntary organisations contribute to and affect policy and funding?

Ochr yn ochr â hyn ceir Cyngor Gweithredu Gwirfoddol Cymru, corff ambarél ar lefel genedlaethol sy’n tynnu at ei gilydd gynrychiolwyr o’r holl sector gwirfoddol yng Nghymru. Wedyn ceir cynghorau gweithredu gwirfoddol lleol, cyrff ambarél sy’n gyfrifol am dynnu at ei gilydd a chynrychioli’r sector gwirfoddol yn eu hardaloedd eu hunain. Fel un o’r tu allan, ac un nad yw’n eistedd ar y Cyngor Partneriaeth, mae hyn yn peri ychydig o benbleth i mi. A wnaiff y Gweinidog egluro perthynas y grwpiau hyn â’i gilydd, a sut y maent yn rhoi adborth i’w cynghorau partneriaeth eu hunain? Sut yr ydych yn sicrhau bod syniadau, dyheadau, gobeithion ac ofnau’r holl gyrff gwirfoddol lleol yn cyfrannu at bolisi ac ariannu ac yn effeithio arnynt?

The definition of a voluntary organisation has also always been an issue, as the range of the sector is immense. It covers organisations which are more or less professional—such as Barnardo’s and Tenovus—and local organisations that work in individual communities. How do you ensure that the views of the whole spectrum are represented on the Partnership Council and can feed into the policies of this body?

Mae’r diffiniad o gorff gwirfoddol yn bwnc trafod erioed hefyd, gan fod y sector yn un amrywiol dros ben. Mae’n cynnwys cyrff sy’n broffesiynol, fwy neu lai—fel Barnardos a Tenovus—a chyrff lleol sy’n gweithio mewn cymunedau neilltuol. Sut yr ydych yn sicrhau bod barn y sbectrwm cyfan yn cael ei chynrychioli ar y Cyngor Partneriaeth ac y gall gyfrannu at bolisïau’r corff hwn?

On the need to provide core funding, you mentioned providing three-year funding. However, that means that organisations must start looking again for more funding halfway through the three-year cycle. As called for by Plaid Cymru in a recent minority party debate, we must consider a review mechanism for organisations that rely on lottery funding. Their functions should be reviewed halfway through the second allocation of lottery funding to see whether the funding could be written into statutory budgets. That would ensure that those services that would have become core services could continue, and would enable the organisations to concentrate on providing the service rather than chasing the funding.

Ynghylch yr angen i ddarparu cyllid craidd, gwnaethoch sôn am ddarparu cyllid dros dair blynedd. Fodd bynnag, mae hynny’n golygu bod yn rhaid i’r cyrff ddechrau chwilio eto am ragor o gyllid hanner ffordd drwy’r cylch tair blynedd. Yn unol â galwad Plaid Cymru mewn dadl plaid leiafrifol yn ddiweddar, rhaid inni ystyried peirianwaith adolygu i gyrff sy’n dibynnu ar arian loteri. Dylid adolygu eu swyddogaethau hanner ffordd drwy’r ail ddyraniad o arian loteri i weld a ellid cynnwys y cyllid mewn cyllidebau statudol. Byddai hynny’n sicrhau parhad y gwasanaethau hynny a fyddai wedi dod yn wasanaethau craidd, ac fe alluogai’r cyrff i ganolbwyntio ar ddarparu’r gwasanaeth yn hytrach na mynd ar ôl cyllid.

Mick Bates spoken in English p. 73

Mick Bates siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 73

The Welsh Liberal Democrats welcome this motion and the second annual report on the Assembly’s voluntary sector scheme. The scheme is one area where we are leading governmental practice. Other parts of the UK, Europe and beyond have shown an interest in the scheme. As the second annual report records, Assembly officials have visited Canada to discuss the Assembly’s relationship with the voluntary sector, and to advise the Canadian Government on the development of its accord with the voluntary sector. We can be justifiably proud of the trailblazing nature of the voluntary sector scheme. The Assembly recognises the importance of the social economy.

Mae Democratiaid Rhyddfrydol Cymru’n croesawu’r cynnig hwn a’r ail adroddiad blynyddol ar gynllun sector gwirfoddol y Cynulliad. Mae’r cynllun hwn yn un maes lle’r ydym yn arwain arfer llywodraethol. Mae rhannau eraill o’r DU, Ewrop a’r tu hwnt wedi mynegi diddordeb yn y cynllun. Fel y mae’r ail adroddiad blynyddol yn cofnodi, mae swyddogion o’r Cynulliad wedi ymweld â Chanada i drafod perthynas y Cynulliad â’r sector gwirfoddol, ac i gynghori Llywodraeth Canada ar ddatblygu ei chytundeb â’r sector gwirfoddol. Mae’n deg inni ymfalchïo yn natur arloesol cynllun y sector gwirfoddol. Mae’r Cynulliad yn cydnabod pwysigrwydd yr economi gymdeithasol.

The first year of the scheme laid solid foundations. This was demonstrated in the establishment of the voluntary sector partnership, the implementation of twice-yearly meetings between Ministers and representatives from voluntary sector organisations relevant to their portfolios, and the establishment of the action plan. It is good to see that these foundations have been built on in the second year. The Voluntary Sector Partnership Council has continued to meet regularly; it is encouraging that these meetings are held more often than is statutorily required. I am pleased to note from the annual report that the voluntary sector is finding the twice-yearly ministerial meetings useful and productive, allowing it to share information with Ministers and contribute to policy development. Among the positive outcomes have been voluntary sector involvement in the panel on education for sustainable development, increased voluntary sector involvement in health, and the establishment of the Communities First trust fund.

Gosodwyd seiliau cadarn ym mlwyddyn gyntaf y cynllun. Dangoswyd hyn drwy sefydlu partneriaeth y sector gwirfoddol, cychwyn y cyfarfodydd hanner blynyddol rhwng Gweinidogion a chynrychiolwyr o gyrff y sector gwirfoddol sy’n berthnasol i’w portffolios, a sefydlu’r cynllun gweithredu. Da yw gweld adeiladu ar y seiliau hyn yn yr ail flwyddyn. Mae Cyngor Partneriaeth y Sector Gwirfoddol wedi parhau i gwrdd yn rheolaidd; peth calonogol yw bod y cyfarfodydd hyn yn cael eu cynnal yn amlach na’r gofyniad statudol. Yr wyf yn falch o nodi o’r adroddiad blynyddol fod y sector gwirfoddol yn cael bod y cyfarfodydd hanner blynyddol â’r Gweinidogion yn ddefnyddiol ac yn gynhyrchiol, a’u bod yn gadael iddo rannu gwybodaeth â’r Gweinidogion a chyfrannu at y gwaith o ddatblygu polisi. Rhai o’r canlyniadau cadarnhaol yw’r rhan a gymerodd y sector gwirfoddol yn y panel ar addysg er mwyn datblygu cynaliadwy, mwy o ran i’r sector gwirfoddol mewn iechyd, a sefydlu cronfa ymddiriedolaeth Rhoi Cymunedau’n Gyntaf.

However, the report rightly notes that there is room for improvement. The majority of agenda items for ministerial meetings are put forward by the voluntary sector. It is to be welcomed that the voluntary sector scheme action plan has been amended to require Assembly officials to prepare a report for each ministerial meeting demonstrating how the scheme’s principles and commitments have been implemented in the relevant Minister’s area of responsibility. I welcome that and look forward to next year’s report to see how effective the amendment has been. The Assembly and the voluntary sector are benefiting from dialogue and consultation. Based on my work with the voluntary sector, I offer one word of caution: the burden of consultation can be great. We need to revisit this issue and continually look for more effective ways of ensuring that the views of all voluntary organisations—from the biggest to the smallest—are heard.

Fodd bynnag, mae’r adroddiad yn nodi’n briodol fod lle i wella. Cyflwynir y rhan fwyaf o’r eitemau agenda ar gyfer y cyfarfodydd â’r Gweinidogion gan y sector gwirfoddol. Croesawaf fod y cynllun gweithredu i gynllun y sector gwirfoddol wedi’i newid i fynnu bod swyddogion y Cynulliad yn paratoi adroddiad ar gyfer pob cyfarfod â’r Gweinidogion i ddangos ym mha fodd y gweithredwyd egwyddorion ac ymrwymiadau’r cynllun ym maes cyfrifoldeb y Gweinidog dan sylw. Croesawaf hynny ac edrychaf ymlaen at adroddiad y flwyddyn nesaf i weld pa mor effeithiol y bu’r newid. Mae’r Cynulliad a’r sector gwirfoddol yn elwa o’r ddeialog a’r ymgynghori. A barnu yn ôl fy ngwaith i â’r sector gwirfoddol, cynigiaf un gair o rybudd: gall ymgynghori fod yn faich mawr. Rhaid inni ailystyried y mater hwn a chwilio’n barhaus am ddulliau mwy effeithiol o sicrhau y clywir barn yr holl gyrff gwirfoddol—o’r rhai mwyaf i’r rhai lleiaf.

Capacity-building in the voluntary sector is important. I am pleased to note that the Welsh Assembly Government has allocated extra money for increased capacity building—an additional £155,000 has been allocated in the local voluntary scheme.

Mae’n bwysig meithrin capasiti yn y sector gwirfoddol. Yr wyf yn falch o nodi bod Llywodraeth Cynulliad Cymru wedi dyrannu arian ychwanegol i feithrin mwy o gapasiti—dyrannwyd £155,000 ychwanegol i’r cynllun gwirfoddol lleol.

The establishment of the Communities First trust fund demonstrates the value of consultation. This should ensure that money flows more swiftly and directly to the most needy communities. The Welsh Liberal Democrats believe in this community-based focus, as it is one of our main principles. However, as someone who fills in forms and helps the voluntary sector to obtain funding, I know that there is always a need to ensure that application forms are understandable and simple.

Mae sefydlu cronfa ymddiriedolaeth Rhoi Cymunedau’n Gyntaf yn dangos mor werthfawr yw ymgynghori. Dylai hon sicrhau bod yr arian yn llifo’n gyflymach ac yn fwy uniongyrchol at y cymunedau mwyaf anghenus. Mae Democratiaid Rhyddfrydol Cymru’n credu yn y ffocws cymunedol hwn, gan ei fod yn un o’n prif egwyddorion. Fodd bynnag, fel un sy’n llenwi ffurflenni ac yn helpu’r sector gwirfoddol i gael arian, fe wn fod angen sicrhau bob amser fod y ffurflenni cais yn syml ac yn ddealladwy.

I urge the Minister to always consider the easiest method of attracting funding. I am often painfully aware of the lack of match funding for many voluntary organisations. I also urge the Minister to ensure that the community investment authority is developed so that community groups are able to access match funding—that is often where they are let down. It is pleasing to note that we have now established the principle of continuity of funding so that voluntary organisations no longer have to go on an annual anxious trek to find next year’s money.

Anogaf y Gweinidog i ystyried y dull hawsaf o ddenu arian bob amser. Yr wyf yn boenus o ymwybodol yn aml o’r diffyg arian cyfatebol i lawer o gyrff gwirfoddol. Anogaf y Gweinidog hefyd i sicrhau y caiff yr awdurdod buddsoddi cymunedol ei ddatblygu fel bod grwpiau cymunedol yn gallu cael arian cyfatebol—hynny sy’n eu siomi’n aml. Mae’n braf nodi ein bod bellach wedi sefydlu egwyddor parhad ar gyfer cyllid fel na fydd cyrff gwirfoddol bellach yn gorfod mynd ar hirdaith boenus bob blwyddyn i ddod o hyd i arian ar gyfer y flwyddyn ganlynol.

Voluntary groups are central to the revitalisation of our deprived communities. They give people the hope and the tools needed to enact change and to influence their surroundings. I welcome your commitment, Minister, and that of the voluntary sector in Wales. The Assembly will continue to lead governmental good practice, and the voluntary sector in Wales will continue to flourish.

Mae lle canolog i grwpiau gwirfoddol yn y gwaith o adfywio ein cymunedau difreintiedig. Rhoddant obaith a’r offer y mae ar bobl eu hangen i gyflawni newid a dylanwadu ar eu hamgylchoedd. Croesawaf eich ymrwymiad chi, Weinidog, ac ymrwymiad y sector gwirfoddol yng Nghymru. Bydd y Cynulliad yn dal i arwain mewn arfer da llywodraethol, a bydd y sector gwirfoddol yng Nghymru’n dal i ffynnu.

Glyn Davies spoken in English p. 75

Glyn Davies siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 75

David Melding was right in saying that there is little in this hugely wide-ranging subject on which there is likely to be disagreement in the Chamber. Mick Bates is also right in saying that the National Assembly for Wales—across the board—can be proud of how it has recognised the voluntary sector’s role, and has sought to work with it and encourage it wherever possible.

Yr oedd David Melding yn gywir wrth ddweud mai ychydig sydd yn y pwnc tra amrywiol hwn y mae’n debygol y ceir anghytuno yn ei gylch yn y Siambr. Mae Mick Bates yn gywir hefyd wrth ddweud y gall Cynulliad Cenedlaethol Cymru—yn gyffredinol—ymfalchïo yn y modd y mae wedi cydnabod rôl y sector gwirfoddol, ac wedi ceisio gweithio gydag ef a’i gefnogi lle y bo modd.

One issue that is not fully appreciated is the voluntary sector’s economic value. It would probably be impossible to identify that value. On one occasion I heard Phil Williams make an effort to do so, and he reached some pretty huge numbers. However, I suspect that a comprehensive review would come up with staggering, amazing numbers, that even Gordon Brown does not reach. I suspect that the scale of the voluntary sector is massive.

Un mater nas gwerthfawrogir yn llawn yw gwerth economaidd y sector gwirfoddol. Mae’n debyg y byddai’n amhosibl canfod y gwerth hwnnw. Un tro clywais Phil Williams yn ymdrechu i wneud hynny, a chyrhaeddodd ffigurau go anferth. Fodd bynnag, yr wyf yn amau y byddai adolygiad cynhwysfawr yn canfod ffigurau rhyfeddol, syfrdanol nad yw hyd yn oed Gordon Brown yn eu cyrraedd. Yr wyf yn amau bod graddfa’r sector gwirfoddol yn anferthol.

In the area where I have always lived, one interest that I share with Mick Bates is the Montgomeryshire canal. That project would never have got off the ground without the commitment of the voluntary sector. That is worth a few million pounds, and that can be multiplied many times. One aspect of the voluntary sector that is of interest to me is the need to alleviate the growing gap in understanding between urban and rural communities. For someone who has always lived in the countryside it is a real blight. It is worrying that there is so little understanding of what makes rural communities tick. I will refer to the work of the wildlife trusts. I have worked with wildlife trusts, and they are of great interest to me. They do a fantastic job and attract huge voluntary effort. They create an understanding of the countryside for the growing numbers of people who take part in organised walks and visits. Their effort in the environmental field is tremendous.

Yn yr ardal yr wyf wedi byw ynddi ar hyd fy oes, un diddordeb a rannaf â Mick Bates yw camlas sir Drefaldwyn. Ni fyddai’r prosiect hwnnw erioed wedi cychwyn heb ymroddiad y sector gwirfoddol. Mae honno’n werth rhai miliynau o bunnoedd, a gellir lluosi hynny lawer gwaith. Un agwedd ar y sector gwirfoddol yr ymddiddoraf ynddi yw’r angen i leihau’r bwlch cynyddol mewn dealltwriaeth rhwng cymunedau trefol a gwledig. I rywun sy’n byw yng nghefn gwlad erioed, mae’n felltith wirioneddol. Testun gofid yw bod cyn lleied o ddealltwriaeth o nodweddion cymunedau gwledig. Cyfeiriaf at waith yr ymddiriedolaethau bywyd gwyllt. Yr wyf wedi gweithio gydag ymddiriedolaethau bywyd gwyllt, ac ymddiddoraf yn fawr ynddynt. Gwnânt waith rhyfeddol gan ysgogi llawer iawn o ymdrechion gwirfoddol. Maent yn meithrin dealltwriaeth o gefn gwlad ymysg y nifer gynyddol sy’n cymryd rhan mewn ymweliadau a theithiau cerdded a drefnir ganddynt. Mae eu hymdrech yn y maes amgylcheddol yn aruthrol.

The capacity to bring people together underpins the voluntary sector. Last week, when many of us probably went out to volunteer, I did some work on the Oldford estate in Welshpool. Ten or 15 years ago, the Oldford estate was causing huge social problems, and there was a real worry that the local authority did not know how to deal with it. Today it has completely changed. People on the estate now contribute their time and work together as a group, and the atmosphere has changed. The voluntary sector’s capacity to change how we live together has terrific value. On that note, before I think of anything on which to disagree with the Minister, I had better sit down.

Y gallu i ddod â phobl at ei gilydd yw sylfaen y sector gwirfoddol. Yr wythnos diwethaf, pan aeth llawer ohonom allan i wirfoddoli, yn ôl pob tebyg, gwneuthum ychydig o waith ar ystad Oldford yn y Trallwng. Ddeg neu 15 mlynedd yn ôl, yr oedd ystad Oldford yn peri problemau cymdeithasol anferth, ac yr oedd pryder gwirioneddol na wyddai’r awdurdod lleol sut i ymdrin â hi. Mae wedi newid yn llwyr erbyn hyn. Bellach mae pobl yr ystad yn rhoi o’u hamser ac yn gweithio gyda’i gilydd fel grŵp, ac mae’r awyrgylch wedi newid. Mae gwerth aruthrol i allu’r sector gwirfoddol i newid y modd yr ydym yn cyd-fyw. Ar y nodyn hwnnw, cyn imi feddwl am rywbeth i anghytuno â’r Gweinidog arno, byddai’n well imi eistedd.

John Marek The Deputy Presiding Officer spoken in English p. 76

John Marek Y Dirprwy Lywydd siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 76

That is good practice.

Mae hynny’n arfer da.

Jane Hutt The Minister for Health and Social Services spoken in English p. 76

Jane Hutt Y Gweinidog dros Iechyd a Gwasanaethau Cymdeithasol siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 76

It is always interesting when we have inclusive debates, where we try to secure cross-party consensus. We achieve that in relation to the voluntary sector. However, I know, David, that your tendencies of opposition are alive and kicking. It is important that the people of Wales—particularly the thousands of people involved in the voluntary sector—see that the Assembly is doing something constructive with them and for them in relation to our powers and policies. Of course this means acknowledging the voluntary sector’s impact and influence on policy development. As you said, David, that will filter through to party manifestos, as voluntary sector organisations seek to influence every stage of the political process. That is what democracy is about.

Mae bob amser yn ddiddorol pan gawn ddadleuon cynhwysol, lle’r ydym yn ceisio sicrhau consensws trawsbleidiol. Cyflawnwn hynny yng nghyswllt y sector gwirfoddol. Fe wn, er hynny, David, fod eich tuedd i wrthwynebu’n fyw ac yn iach. Mae’n bwysig bod pobl Cymru—yn enwedig y miloedd sy’n ymwneud â’r sector gwirfoddol—yn gweld bod y Cynulliad yn gwneud rhywbeth adeiladol gyda hwy a throstynt hwy mewn cysylltiad â’n pwerau a’n polisïau. Wrth gwrs, mae hynny’n golygu cydnabod effaith a dylanwad y sector gwirfoddol ar y gwaith o ddatblygu polisi. Fel y dywedasoch, David, bydd hynny’n treiddio i faniffestos y pleidiau, wrth i gyrff y sector gwirfoddol geisio dylanwadu ar bob cam yn y broses wleidyddol. Dyna bwrpas democratiaeth.

The voluntary sector’s influence is proving itself, not just in relation to my portfolio of health and social services, but also across the board on the environment, housing, education and economic development.

Profir dylanwad y sector gwirfoddol, nid yn unig mewn cysylltiad â’m portffolio i, sef iechyd a gwasanaethau cymdeithasol, ond yn gyffredinol ar yr amgylchedd, tai, addysg a datblygu economaidd.

In terms of amendment 1 in the name of Jocelyn Davies, which we will support, cross-cutting approaches are embodied in the values of the voluntary sector. It is clear that voluntary sector bodies need to seek to be fair and to promote equality of opportunity and sustainability in the directions in which they move. They are key parts of their agendas. Therefore, they can vigorously help us in our tasks and statutory duties. It is important that we re-acknowledge and restate that in today’s debate. Your points are important. They are not adversarial, but are more concerned with scrutinising the process in terms of the twice-yearly meetings with Ministers. That is the start of a unique way of the voluntary sector meeting with and influencing the Government.

Yng nghyd-destun gwelliant 1 yn enw Jocelyn Davies, y byddwn yn ei gefnogi, mae dulliau gweithredu trawsbynciol wedi’u hymgorffori yng ngwerthoedd y sector gwirfoddol. Mae’n amlwg bod yn rhaid i gyrff y sector gwirfoddol geisio bod yn deg a hyrwyddo cyfle cyfartal a chynaliadwyedd ym mha bynnag gyfeiriad yr ânt. Maent yn rhannau allweddol o’u hagendâu. Felly, gallant roi cymorth egnïol i ni yn ein gorchwylion a’n dyletswyddau statudol. Mae’n bwysig ein bod yn cydnabod hynny eto a’i ailddatgan yn y ddadl heddiw. Mae’ch pwyntiau’n rhai pwysig. Nid ydynt yn wrthwynebus, ond yn ymwneud yn hytrach ag archwilio’r broses yng nghyd-destun y cyfarfodydd hanner blynyddol gyda’r Gweinidogion. Mae hynny’n fan cychwyn i ddull unigryw gan y sector gwirfoddol o gyfarfod â’r Llywodraeth a dylanwadu arni.

Together we are learning how to make the most of those twice-yearly meetings. They must have an impact and outcome that can be monitored, not only on a Minister’s agenda, but also in terms of the voluntary sector bringing its points to us, as it has now started to do. My last meeting with the health and social care network concerned our health and wellbeing proposals and how we can take them forward. It was a practical meeting. Not only did the network want to scrutinise its impact and see whether it was effective, but also Voluntary Sector Partnership Council members need to ensure that it has an outcome and a report. I hope that we will demonstrate that as we test this process out.

Gyda’n gilydd, yr ydym yn dysgu sut i gael y gorau o’r cyfarfodydd hanner blynyddol hynny. Rhaid iddynt gael effaith a chanlyniad y gellir ei fonitro, nid yn unig ar agenda Gweinidog, ond hefyd o ran cyflwyno pwyntiau i ni gan y sector gwirfoddol, fel y mae wedi dechrau gwneud bellach. Yr oedd fy nghyfarfod diwethaf â’r rhwydwaith iechyd a gofal cymdeithasol yn ymwneud â’n cynigion ar iechyd a lles a sut y gallwn eu hyrwyddo. Yr oedd yn gyfarfod ymarferol. Nid yn unig yr oedd y rhwydwaith am archwilio ei effaith a gweld a oedd yn effeithiol, ond mae angen hefyd i aelodau Cyngor Partneriaeth y Sector Gwirfoddol sicrhau y caiff ganlyniad ac adroddiad. Gobeithiaf y byddwn yn dangos hynny wrth inni roi prawf ar y broses hon.

It is early days and we must recognise that the voluntary sector has a role in developing the networks. Janet, you asked several questions about how the infrastructure of the voluntary sector delivers this influence and impact. You know that the WCVA supports the 21 networks, which are networks of influence that operate nationally across Wales. The networks meet Ministers and are represented on the Voluntary Sector Partnership Council because that is the national body of influence. The local voluntary services, through the councils for voluntary service, for which the Assembly provides substantial funding in Wales, come together and form a national co-ordinating link called, I believe, the Wales Association of Councils of Voluntary Action and Service.

Y dyddiau cynnar yw’r rhain a rhaid inni gydnabod bod rôl i’r sector gwirfoddol yn y gwaith o ddatblygu’r rhwydweithiau. Janet, gofynasoch sawl cwestiwn am y modd y mae seilwaith y sector gwirfoddol yn cael y dylanwad a’r effaith hon. Fe wyddoch fod Cyngor Gweithredu Gwirfoddol Cymru’n cefnogi’r 21 rhwydwaith, sy’n rhwydweithiau dylanwadol sy’n gweithredu’n genedlaethol ledled Cymru. Mae’r rhwydweithiau’n cwrdd â’r Gweinidogion ac fe’u cynrychiolir ar Gyngor Partneriaeth y Sector Gwirfoddol am mai hwnnw yw’r corff dylanwadol cenedlaethol. Mae’r gwasanaethau gwirfoddol lleol, drwy’r cynghorau gwasanaethau gwirfoddol, y mae’r Cynulliad yn darparu cyllid sylweddol ar eu cyfer yng Nghymru, yn dod at ei gilydd ac yn ffurfio cyswllt cydlynol cenedlaethol a elwir, yr wyf yn credu, yn Gymdeithas Cynghorau Gweithredu a Gwasanaethau Gwirfoddol Cymru.

Therefore, at all levels in Wales, people in the voluntary sector are meeting to influence each other, the Assembly and local government. There is an important distinction between the WCVA and the local voluntary service—the councils for voluntary service—which work in every unitary authority in Wales and are particularly engaged in a local infrastructure of support, influence and relationships with their local authorities, the health service and their local voluntary sector. However, they all have an influence on the whole national picture.

Felly, ar bob lefel yng Nghymru, mae pobl yn y sector gwirfoddol yn cwrdd i ddylanwadu ar ei gilydd, ar y Cynulliad ac ar lywodraeth leol. Mae gwahaniaeth pwysig rhwng Cyngor Gweithredu Gwirfoddol Cymru a’r gwasanaeth gwirfoddol lleol—y cynghorau gwasanaethau gwirfoddol—sy’n gweithio ym mhob awdurdod unedol yng Nghymru ac sy’n ymwneud yn benodol â seilwaith lleol o gymorth, dylanwad a chysylltiadau â’u hawdurdodau lleol, y gwasanaeth iechyd a’u sector gwirfoddol lleol. Fodd bynnag, mae pob un ohonynt yn dylanwadu ar y darlun cenedlaethol cyfan.

I am glad that Ann mentioned the importance of the Assembly recognising how we influence, not just Wales, but the UK. You played an important role in terms of the Children’s Society debacle—and it was a debacle. I recently met chief executives from UK voluntary organisations who have a role to play in Wales. I was pleased by their response and their recognition that they had to have a relationship and partnership with us. Also, I feel that our work with the Welsh Affairs Select Committee was valuable. It showed that elected Members in the Assembly and Westminster played a role together in exposing the problems and issues and the gaps in how we move forward.

Yr wyf yn falch bod Ann wedi cyfeirio at bwysigrwydd y Cynulliad yn cydnabod sut yr ydym yn dylanwadu, nid yn unig yng Nghymru, ond yn y DU. Gwnaethoch chwarae rhan bwysig yng nghyd-destun trychineb Cymdeithas y Plant—a thrychineb ydoedd. Yn ddiweddar, cyfarfûm â phrif weithredwyr cyrff gwirfoddol y DU sydd â rôl yng Nghymru. Yr oeddwn yn falch o’u hymateb a’u bod yn cydnabod bod ganddynt berthynas a phartneriaeth â ni. Hefyd, teimlaf fod ein gwaith â’r Pwyllgor Dethol ar Faterion Cymreig yn werthfawr. Dangosodd fod Aelodau etholedig yn y Cynulliad ac yn San Steffan wedi chwarae rôl gyda’i gilydd wrth ddatgelu’r problemau a’r materion sy’n codi a’r bylchau yn y modd yr ydym yn symud ymlaen.

Funding will always be key. Ann, Nick, Mick, Janet and others talked about that, as did Helen Mary in relation to local government. We need to move forward, and the good practice guide will be developed with the assistance of the WLGA and the WCVA.

Bydd ariannu’n allweddol bob amser. Mae Ann, Nick, Mick, Janet ac eraill wedi sôn am hynny, fel y gwnaeth Helen Mary yng nghyd-destun llywodraeth leol. Rhaid inni symud ymlaen, a datblygir y canllawiau arfer da gyda chymorth Cymdeithas Llywodraeth Leol Cymru a Chyngor Gweithredu Gwirfoddol Cymru.

The Voluntary Sector Partnership Council can play its role, alongside the local government Partnership Council, as a catalyst for change and development. How the code of practice can be adopted and accepted will be debated nationally and with each local authority. Ann referred to her own local authority and, as Assembly Members, we can use the code of practice as we like, with Assembly sponsored public bodies, local government and the health service. The partnership council is a catalyst for change and will ensure that this time next year, we have even more to report on the impact of a scheme that, as Mick said, is unique.

Gall Cyngor Partneriaeth y Sector Gwirfoddol chwarae ei ran, ochr yn ochr â Chyngor Partneriaeth llywodraeth leol, fel catalydd i newid a datblygu. Bydd trafodaeth yn genedlaethol a chyda phob awdurdod lleol ynghylch y modd y gellir mabwysiadu a derbyn y cod ymarfer. Cyfeiriodd Ann at ei hawdurdod lleol hi ac, fel Aelodau Cynulliad, gallwn ddefnyddio’r cod ymarfer fel y mynnwn, gyda chyrff cyhoeddus a noddir gan y Cynulliad, llywodraeth leol a’r gwasanaeth iechyd. Mae’r cyngor partneriaeth yn gatalydd i newid a bydd yn sicrhau y bydd gennym fwy byth i’w adrodd, yr adeg hon y flwyddyn nesaf, am effaith cynllun sydd, fel y dywedodd Mick, yn un unigryw.

I am also glad that Mick and Glyn referred to the voluntary sector’s economic importance. I know that staff in the sector will be pleased to hear that. Communities are contributing much to the social economy, the regeneration of Wales and Communities First. We must recognise local voices as well as the larger, more powerful national voice. On the social economy, it is important that we see that community business and enterprise has developed, and that people are moving from dependency on grant aid to community regeneration and community business support. Objective 1 plays an important role in supporting and developing the social economy, and in helping to regenerate Wales.

Yr wyf yn falch hefyd fod Mick a Glyn wedi cyfeirio at bwysigrwydd economaidd y sector gwirfoddol. Gwn y bydd y staff yn y sector yn falch o glywed hynny. Mae cymunedau’n cyfrannu llawer at yr economi gymdeithasol, at adfywio Cymru ac at Rhoi Cymunedau’n Gyntaf. Rhaid inni gydnabod y lleisiau lleol yn ogystal â’r rhai cenedlaethol mwy pwerus. Ynghylch yr economi gymdeithasol, mae’n bwysig inni sylweddoli bod busnes a menter cymunedol wedi datblygu, a bod pobl yn symud oddi wrth ddibyniaeth ar gymorth grant at gymorth adfywio cymunedol a busnes cymunedol. Mae Amcan 1 yn chwarae rhan o bwys wrth gefnogi a datblygu’r economi gymdeithasol, ac wrth helpu i adfywio Cymru.

Volunteers give their support in many ways, right down to our wildlife trusts and the kind of work that Glyn described, which probably happens every weekend, and may be happening now in our communities. Volunteering plays an all-important role, not only as a step towards employment, but in post-retirement, boosting self esteem, helping young people, and providing work opportunities. Last year, I was able to announce an extra £700,000 for local voluntary groups and volunteering in Wales, for the 2002-03 financial year.

Mae gwirfoddolwyr yn cynorthwyo mewn llawer modd, hyd at ein hymddiriedolaethau bywyd gwyllt a’r math o waith a ddisgrifiodd Glyn, sy’n digwydd bob penwythnos yn ôl pob tebyg, ac a allai fod yn digwydd yn awr yn ein cymunedau. Mae rôl hollbwysig i wirfoddoli, nid yn unig fel cam tuag at gyflogaeth, ond ar ôl ymddeol, drwy feithrin hunan-barch, helpu pobl ifanc, a darparu cyfleoedd gwaith. Y llynedd, gallais gyhoeddi £700,000 ychwanegol ar gyfer grwpiau gwirfoddol lleol a gwirfoddoli yng Nghymru, ar gyfer blwyddyn ariannol 2002-03.

Capacity building is essential. There was no such term 10 or 20 years ago. We were outside the tent; we were not influencing Government, as we wanted. We now have the opportunity to open the door to the voluntary sector. Capacity building is critical, which is why we have come in—we have learned of the need for more capacity building to support the Voluntary Sector Partnership Council. We need to say ‘yes’. The black voluntary sector needs particular support because it is a new network. Where there is a particular deficit in capacity, we must recognise that, as part of our responsibility to ensure equal opportunities. We must back the entire sector, embrace its diversity in Wales, and recognise that it is one of the success stories of devolution.

Mae meithrin capasiti’n hanfodol. Nid oedd y fath ymadrodd yn bod 10 neu 20 mlynedd yn ôl. Yr oeddem ar y tu allan; nid oeddem yn dylanwadu ar Lywodraeth, fel y dymunem wneud. Mae gennym gyfle’n awr i agor y drws i’r sector gwirfoddol. Mae meithrin capasiti’n hollbwysig, a dyna pam y daethom i mewn—yr ydym wedi dysgu am yr angen am fwy o waith meithrin capasiti i gynorthwyo Cyngor Partneriaeth y Sector Gwirfoddol. Rhaid inni ddweud ‘oes’. Mae ar y sector gwirfoddol du angen cymorth penodol am ei fod yn rhwydwaith newydd. Pan fo diffyg penodol mewn capasiti, rhaid inni gydnabod hynny, fel rhan o’n cyfrifoldeb i sicrhau cyfle cyfartal. Rhaid inni gefnogi’r sector cyfan, croesawu ei amrywiaeth yng Nghymru, a chydnabod mai dyma un o lwyddiannau datganoli.

We have a long way to go, but we have a unique starting point with this voluntary sector scheme. We have a fully engaged and committed voluntary sector in Wales, locally in communities and nationally, representing all of the interests that will make a difference.

Mae gennym lawer o waith i’w wneud, ond mae gennym fan cychwyn unigryw yn y cynllun hwn i’r sector gwirfoddol. Mae gennym sector gwirfoddol cwbl ymrwymedig ac ymroddedig yng Nghymru, yn lleol mewn cymunedau ac yn genedlaethol, sy’n cynrychioli’r holl fuddiannau a wnaiff wahaniaeth.

John Marek The Deputy Presiding Officer spoken in English p. 81

John Marek Y Dirprwy Lywydd siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 81

Time has run out for this debate, Minister.

Mae’r amser ar gyfer y ddadl hon wedi dod i ben, Weinidog.

Jane Hutt spoken in English p. 81

Jane Hutt siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 81

I commend this motion to you.

Cymeradwyaf y cynnig hwn i chi.

Gwelliant 1 Helen Mary Jones t. 81

Amendment 1 Helen Mary Jones p. 81

DerbyniwydAdopted O blaidFor 43 YmatalAbstain 0 Yn erbynAgainst 0

Derbyniwyd y gwelliant.

Amendment carried.

Sut y pleidleisiodd yr AelodauHow Members voted
O blaidFor (43)
  • Lorraine Barrett
  • Mick Bates
  • Peter Black
  • Nick Bourne
  • Eleanor Burnham
  • Rosemary Butler
  • Alun Cairns
  • Cynog Dafis
  • David Davies
  • Geraint Davies
  • Glyn Davies
  • Janet Davies
  • Ron Davies
  • Sue Essex
  • Delyth Evans
  • Michael German
  • Brian Gibbons
  • Janice Gregory
  • John Griffiths
  • Christine Gwyther
  • Alison Halford
  • Brian Hancock
  • Edwina Hart
  • Jane Hutt
  • Ann Jones
  • Carwyn Jones
  • Gareth Jones
  • Helen Mary Jones
  • Ieuan Wyn Jones
  • Peter Law
  • David Lloyd
  • Val Lloyd
  • David Melding
  • Rhodri Morgan
  • Alun Pugh
  • Jenny Randerson
  • Peter Rogers
  • Janet Ryder
  • Karen Sinclair
  • Gwenda Thomas
  • Owen John Thomas
  • Rhodri Glyn Thomas
  • Kirsty Williams

Gwelliant 2 David Melding t. 81

Amendment 2 David Melding p. 81

DerbyniwydAdopted O blaidFor 43 YmatalAbstain 0 Yn erbynAgainst 0

Derbyniwyd y gwelliant.

Amendment carried.

Sut y pleidleisiodd yr AelodauHow Members voted
O blaidFor (43)
  • Lorraine Barrett
  • Mick Bates
  • Peter Black
  • Nick Bourne
  • Eleanor Burnham
  • Rosemary Butler
  • Alun Cairns
  • Cynog Dafis
  • David Davies
  • Geraint Davies
  • Glyn Davies
  • Janet Davies
  • Ron Davies
  • Sue Essex
  • Delyth Evans
  • Michael German
  • Brian Gibbons
  • Janice Gregory
  • John Griffiths
  • Christine Gwyther
  • Alison Halford
  • Brian Hancock
  • Edwina Hart
  • Jane Hutt
  • Ann Jones
  • Carwyn Jones
  • Gareth Jones
  • Helen Mary Jones
  • Ieuan Wyn Jones
  • Peter Law
  • David Lloyd
  • Val Lloyd
  • David Melding
  • Rhodri Morgan
  • Alun Pugh
  • Jenny Randerson
  • Peter Rogers
  • Janet Ryder
  • Karen Sinclair
  • Gwenda Thomas
  • Owen John Thomas
  • Rhodri Glyn Thomas
  • Kirsty Williams

DerbyniwydAdopted O blaidFor 44 YmatalAbstain 0 Yn erbynAgainst 0

Derbyniwyd y cynnig.

Motion carried.

Sut y pleidleisiodd yr AelodauHow Members voted
O blaidFor (44)
  • Lorraine Barrett
  • Mick Bates
  • Peter Black
  • Nick Bourne
  • Eleanor Burnham
  • Rosemary Butler
  • Alun Cairns
  • Cynog Dafis
  • David Davies
  • Geraint Davies
  • Glyn Davies
  • Janet Davies
  • Ron Davies
  • Sue Essex
  • Delyth Evans
  • Michael German
  • Brian Gibbons
  • William Graham
  • Janice Gregory
  • John Griffiths
  • Christine Gwyther
  • Alison Halford
  • Brian Hancock
  • Edwina Hart
  • Jane Hutt
  • Ann Jones
  • Carwyn Jones
  • Gareth Jones
  • Helen Mary Jones
  • Ieuan Wyn Jones
  • Peter Law
  • David Lloyd
  • Val Lloyd
  • David Melding
  • Rhodri Morgan
  • Alun Pugh
  • Jenny Randerson
  • Peter Rogers
  • Janet Ryder
  • Karen Sinclair
  • Gwenda Thomas
  • Owen John Thomas
  • Rhodri Glyn Thomas
  • Kirsty Williams

Cynnig Trefniadol

Procedural Motion

Carwyn Jones The Minister for Open Government spoken in English p. 84

Carwyn Jones Y Gweinidog dros Lywodraeth Agored siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 84

I propose that

Cynigiaf fod

DerbyniwydAdopted O blaidFor 42 YmatalAbstain 0 Yn erbynAgainst 0

Derbyniwyd y cynnig.

Motion carried.

Sut y pleidleisiodd yr AelodauHow Members voted
O blaidFor (42)
  • Lorraine Barrett
  • Mick Bates
  • Peter Black
  • Nick Bourne
  • Eleanor Burnham
  • Rosemary Butler
  • Alun Cairns
  • Cynog Dafis
  • Jane Davidson
  • David Davies
  • Geraint Davies
  • Glyn Davies
  • Ron Davies
  • Sue Essex
  • Delyth Evans
  • Michael German
  • Brian Gibbons
  • William Graham
  • Janice Gregory
  • John Griffiths
  • Christine Gwyther
  • Alison Halford
  • Brian Hancock
  • Edwina Hart
  • Ann Jones
  • Carwyn Jones
  • Gareth Jones
  • Ieuan Wyn Jones
  • Peter Law
  • David Lloyd
  • Val Lloyd
  • David Melding
  • Rhodri Morgan
  • Alun Pugh
  • Jenny Randerson
  • Peter Rogers
  • Janet Ryder
  • Karen Sinclair
  • Gwenda Thomas
  • Owen John Thomas
  • Rhodri Glyn Thomas
  • Kirsty Williams

Deddf Rhyddid Gwybodaeth 2000 a Dirprwyo Swyddogaethau i Brif Weinidog Cymru

The Freedom of Information Act 2000 and the Delegation of Functions to the First Minister

John Marek The Deputy Presiding Officer spoken in English p. 85

John Marek Y Dirprwy Lywydd siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 85

I have selected amendments 1 and 2 to the first motion in the name of Jonathan Morgan.

Yr wyf wedi dethol gwelliannau 1 a 2 i’r cynnig cyntaf yn enw Jonathan Morgan.

Carwyn Jones The Minister for Open Government spoken in English p. 85

Carwyn Jones Y Gweinidog dros Lywodraeth Agored siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 85

I propose that

Cynigiaf fod

Carwyn Jones The Minister for Open Government (continued) spoken in English p. 86

Carwyn Jones Y Gweinidog dros Lywodraeth Agored (parhad) siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 86

I propose that

Cynigiaf fod

Carwyn Jones The Minister for Open Government (continued) spoken in English p. 86

Carwyn Jones Y Gweinidog dros Lywodraeth Agored (parhad) siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 86

The two motions before the Assembly today concern open government in the context of the Freedom of Information Act 2000. The second motion seeks agreement to the delegation of the functions contained in the Freedom of Information Act 2000 to the First Minister. Freedom of information is a principle to which all of my colleagues and I subscribe. The First Minister will therefore delegate the functions to all Assembly Ministers and/or officials, where appropriate.

Mae’r ddau gynnig sydd gerbron y Cynulliad heddiw’n ymwneud â llywodraeth agored yng nghyd-destun Deddf Rhyddid Gwybodaeth 2000. Mae’r ail gynnig yn ceisio cytundeb i ddirprwyo’r swyddogaethau a geir yn Neddf Rhyddid Gwybodaeth 2000 i Brif Weinidog Cymru. Mae rhyddid gwybodaeth yn egwyddor y mae fy holl gyd-Aelodau a minnau’n ei chefnogi. Gan hynny, bydd Prif Weinidog Cymru’n dirprwyo’r swyddogaethau i holl Weinidogion a/neu swyddogion y Cynulliad, lle y bo’n briodol.

The Freedom of Information Act 2000 is a major piece of legislation, providing for the disclosure of information held by public authorities or by persons providing services for them. An individual right of access to information provided for in the Act will be brought into force in January 2005, however, the position is different in Wales. In May 2001, Members voted to adopt the National Assembly for Wales’s Code of Practice on Public Access to Information. The code takes account of the Act’s key features, including a right of access to information. Through the register of information, steps have already been taken to publicise information available to the public and others. On a voluntary basis, we are implementing much of the Act more than three years ahead of other public authorities, including Government departments. In the run-up to January 2005, the UK Government will put the necessary framework in place to fully implement the Act.

Mae Deddf Rhyddid Gwybodaeth 2000 yn ddeddf bwysig, sy’n darparu ar gyfer datgelu gwybodaeth a ddelir gan awdurdodau cyhoeddus neu gan rai sy’n darparu gwasanaethau ar eu rhan. Bydd hawl unigolyn i gael gweld gwybodaeth a ragnodir yn y Ddeddf yn dod i rym yn Ionawr 2005. Fodd bynnag, mae’r sefyllfa’n wahanol yng Nghymru. Ym Mai 2001, pleidleisiodd yr Aelodau dros fabwysiadu Cod Ymarfer Cynulliad Cenedlaethol Cymru ar Ganiatáu i’r Cyhoedd Weld Gwybodaeth. Mae’r cod yn ystyried nodweddion allweddol y Ddeddf, gan gynnwys hawl i weld gwybodaeth. Drwy’r gofrestr gwybodaeth, cymerwyd camau eisoes i dynnu sylw at y wybodaeth sydd ar gael i’r cyhoedd ac i eraill. Yr ydym yn gweithredu’n wirfoddol lawer sydd yn y Ddeddf fwy na thair blynedd o flaen unrhyw awdurdodau cyhoeddus eraill, gan gynnwys adrannau Llywodraeth. Yn y cyfnod cyn 2005, bydd Llywodraeth y DU yn sefydlu’r fframwaith sydd ei angen i lawn weithredu’r Ddeddf.

The Act imposes several statutory duties on the National Assembly for Wales, such as that contained in section 16, which places a duty on all public authorities to provide advice and assistance, as far as is reasonable, to those who seek information. I highlighted section 16 because it is incorporated in the National Assembly’s code. The code demonstrates our intention to fulfil the duties that the Act places upon us in advance of 2005 and to go further, where possible.

Mae’r Ddeddf yn gosod sawl dyletswydd statudol ar Gynulliad Cenedlaethol Cymru, fel yr hyn a geir yn adran 16, sy’n gosod dyletswydd ar bob awdurdod cyhoeddus i ddarparu cyngor a chymorth, hyd y bo’n rhesymol, ar gyfer y rhai sy’n ceisio gwybodaeth. Tynnais sylw at adran 16 gan ei bod wedi’i chynnwys yng nghod y Cynulliad Cenedlaethol. Mae’r cod yn dangos ein bwriad i gyflawni’r dyletswyddau y mae’r Ddeddf yn eu gosod arnom cyn 2005 ac i fynd ymhellach, os oes modd.

The Act also contains certain provisions requiring the UK Government to consult the National Assembly for Wales. This consultation relates mainly to amendments to Schedule 1 of the Act, which lists the bodies that it covers. The purpose of the second motion is to give the First Minister the necessary delegation to respond to these consultations in respect of Schedule 1 on behalf of the National Assembly for Wales, and to give him delegation in respect of section 19 and section 53.

Ceir rhai darpariaethau yn y Ddeddf hefyd sy’n mynnu bod Llywodraeth y DU yn ymgynghori â Chynulliad Cenedlaethol Cymru. Mae’r ymgynghori hwn yn ymwneud yn bennaf â diwygiadau i Atodlen 1 i’r Ddeddf, sy’n rhestru’r cyrff y mae’n eu cynnwys. Pwrpas yr ail gynnig yw dirprwyo’r pŵer sy’n angenrheidiol i Brif Weinidog Cymru ymateb i’r ymgynghoriadau hyn mewn cysylltiad ag Atodlen 1 ar ran Cynulliad Cenedlaethol Cymru, a dirprwyo pŵer iddo mewn cysylltiad ag adran 19 ac adran 53.

The first motion seeks Members’ views on the draft publication scheme and its future handling. The second motion does not affect the arrangements for the development and approval of the publication scheme outlined in the first motion.

Mae’r cynnig cyntaf yn ceisio barn yr Aelodau ar y cynllun cyhoeddi drafft a’r dull o’i drafod yn y dyfodol. Nid yw’r ail gynnig yn effeithio ar y trefniadau i ddatblygu a chymeradwyo’r cynllun cyhoeddi a amlinellir yn y cynnig cyntaf.

On 13 November 2001, the Lord Chancellor announced that, for the first wave of public bodies—including the National Assembly and Whitehall departments—section 19 of the Act would come into force in November 2002. Section 19 imposes a duty on every public authority covered by the Act to adopt, maintain, publish and review a scheme, approved by the information commissioner, relating to the publication of its information. Section 19(2) requires that the scheme must specify, among other things, the classes of information that the authority publishes or intends to publish, the manner of publication and whether the information is available to the public free of charge or on payment of a fee. Therefore, authorities are required to outline in their schemes the information that they commit to publishing, and will become the route by which the public can identify the information that the National Assembly publishes. On direct information, whether people request a hard copy or electronic documents or whether they make requests by e-mail, telephone, fax, letter or search for it themselves on our internet site, will be made clear.

Ar 13 Tachwedd 2001, cyhoeddodd yr Arglwydd Ganghellor y byddai adran 19 o’r Ddeddf, yn achos y don gyntaf o gyrff cyhoeddus—sy’n cynnwys y Cynulliad Cenedlaethol ac adrannau Whitehall—yn dod i rym yn Nhachwedd 2002. Mae adran 19 yn gosod dyletswydd ar bob awdurdod cyhoeddus sydd o fewn cwmpas y Ddeddf i fabwysiadu, cadw, cyhoeddi ac adolygu cynllun, a gymeradwyir gan y comisiynydd gwybodaeth, sy’n ymwneud â chyhoeddi ei wybodaeth. Mae adran 19(2) yn mynnu y bydd y cynllun yn nodi, ymysg pethau eraill, dosbarthiadau gwybodaeth y mae’r awdurdod yn eu cyhoeddi neu’n bwriadu eu cyhoeddi, y dull o gyhoeddi ac a yw’r wybodaeth ar gael i’r cyhoedd yn rhad ac am ddim neu drwy dalu ffi. Felly, mae’n ofynnol i awdurdodau ddisgrifio yn eu cynlluniau y wybodaeth y maent yn ymrwymo i’w chyhoeddi, a hwy fydd y cyfrwng i’r cyhoedd allu canfod pa wybodaeth y mae’r Cynulliad Cenedlaethol yn ei chyhoeddi. Ynghylch gwybodaeth uniongyrchol, rhoddir ar ddeall a fydd pobl yn gofyn am gopi caled neu ddogfennau electronig neu a wnânt geisiadau drwy e-bost, dros y teleffon, drwy ffacs neu lythyr neu drwy chwilio amdani drostynt eu hunain ar ein gwefan.

Section 19(3) requires us to have regard for the public interest. As part of that process, we have invited public consultation on the draft scheme, seeking the views of organisations representing the disabled and ethnic minorities, among many others. In parallel with the development of the publication scheme, a new publications catalogue is being developed. The catalogue will be a sophisticated, online database of National Assembly hard copy publications that the public can access in English and Welsh. The scheme will complement the steps already taken in the code of practice, and will replace the information register, which is detailed in principle 4 of the code.

Mae adran 19(3) yn mynnu ein bod yn gofalu am y budd cyhoeddus. Fel rhan o’r broses honno, yr ydym wedi ymgynghori â’r cyhoedd ar y cynllun drafft, gan geisio barn cyrff sy’n cynrychioli pobl anabl a lleiafrifoedd ethnig, ymysg llawer o rai eraill. Ochr yn ochr â datblygu’r cynllun cyhoeddi, mae catalog cyhoeddiadau newydd yn cael ei ddatblygu. Bydd y catalog yn gronfa ddata ar lein, soffistigedig o gyhoeddiadau copi caled y gall y cyhoedd eu gweld yn y Gymraeg a’r Saesneg. Bydd y cynllun hwn yn ategu’r camau a gymerwyd eisoes yn y cod ymarfer, ac yn cymryd lle’r gofrestr gwybodaeth, a nodir yn egwyddor 4 o’r cod.

Turning to the amendments tabled, amendment 1—requiring that Ministers should answer questions orally and in writing on all of their responsibilities—refers to the subject of the Presiding Officer’s ruling a week or so ago. This is an attempt to revive that issue, which must be determined in future. It is far more complex than can be dealt with in an amendment to this motion.

Gan droi at y gwelliannau a gyflwynwyd, mae gwelliant 1—sy’n mynnu y dylai Gweinidogion ateb cwestiynau ar lafar ac yn ysgrifenedig ar bob un o’u cyfrifoldebau—yn cyfeirio at destun dyfarniad y Llywydd ryw wythnos yn ôl. Mae hon yn ymgais i ailgodi’r mater hwnnw, y bydd yn rhaid penderfynu arno yn y dyfodol. Mae’n llawer rhy gymhleth i’w drin mewn gwelliant i’r cynnig hwn.

On amendment 2, explanatory notes will specify timescales as appropriate, where they have not yet been specified. The purpose of this motion is to hear the views of Assembly Members and use them to improve the publication scheme in future. I recommend that the Assembly rejects both amendments: the second because it has already been done, the views of all Assembly Members will be taken into account, regardless of what they are.

Ynghylch gwelliant 2, bydd y nodiadau eglurhaol yn nodi’r amserlenni fel y bo’n briodol, lle nad ydynt wedi’u nodi eisoes. Pwrpas y cynnig hwn yw clywed barn Aelodau’r Cynulliad a’i defnyddio i wella’r cynllun cyhoeddi yn y dyfodol. Argymhellaf y dylai’r Cynulliad wrthod y ddau welliant: yr ail am ei fod wedi’i wneud eisoes, fe ystyrir barn holl Aelodau’r Cynulliad, beth bynnag y bo.

Nick Bourne spoken in English p. 89

Nick Bourne siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 89

I propose the following amendments in the name of Jonathan Morgan to the first motion. Amendment 1: insert a new point after point 1, and renumber accordingly:

Cynigiaf y gwelliannau canlynol i’r cynnig cyntaf yn enw Jonathan Morgan. Gwelliant 1: ychwanegu pwynt newydd ar ôl pwynt 1, ac ailrifo’r pwyntiau sy’n weddill yn unol â hynny:

Nick Bourne (continued) spoken in English p. 89

Nick Bourne (parhad) siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 89

I propose amendment 2. Insert a new point after point 2, and renumber accordingly:

Cynigiaf welliant 2. Ychwanegu pwynt newydd ar ôl pwynt 2, ac ailrifo’r pwyntiau sy’n weddill yn unol â hynny:

Nick Bourne (continued) spoken in English p. 89

Nick Bourne (parhad) siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 89

The Welsh Conservatives have no difficulty with the scheme as set out in the first motion. We applaud principles of openness and accountability and freedom of information. However, words are not enough. We support the publication of documents, in which the public has an unequivocal interest, but judging by the events of the last two weeks—and I take this opportunity since I have had no other—we deplore the way that matters are developing here. We had the creation of a Minister for Open Government. He is featured on today’s Agenda as the Minister for Assembly Business, but on the Chamberweb, he is the Minister for Open Government; it does not refer to his being Minister for Assembly Business at all. An Orwellian creation if ever there was one. I do not doubt the Minister’s intentions, but I remember that, when I questioned him early on, he said that Minister’s questions would be tabled for him. I hope that he will live up to that, because if he is to be the Minister for Open Government, we want the opportunity to question him. The billing for Minister for Open Government has stopped short of the reality.

Mae Ceidwadwyr Cymru’n fodlon ar y cynllun fel y’i nodir yn y cynnig cyntaf. Canmolwn egwyddorion gweithredu agored ac atebolrwydd a rhyddid gwybodaeth. Fodd bynnag, nid yw geiriau’n ddigon. Cefnogwn gyhoeddi dogfennau y mae gan y cyhoedd ddiddordeb pendant ynddynt ond, a barnu yn ôl digwyddiadau’r pythefnos diwethaf—ac achubaf ar y cyfle hwn gan na chefais un arall—yr ydym yn gresynu at y modd y mae pethau’n datblygu yma. Gwelsom greu’r Gweinidog dros Lywodraeth Agored. Mae’n ymddangos ar yr Agenda heddiw fel Trefnydd y Cynulliad, ond ar we’r Siambr, y Gweinidog dros Lywodraeth Agored ydyw; nid yw’n cyfeirio at y ffaith ei fod yn Drefnydd y Cynulliad o gwbl. Creadigaeth Orwellaidd os bu un erioed. Nid wyf yn amau bwriadau’r Gweinidog, ond cofiaf, pan gwestiynais ef yn gynharach, iddo ddweud y byddai cwestiynau i’r Gweinidog yn cael eu cyflwyno iddo. Gobeithiaf y bydd yn byw wrth ei broffes, oherwydd os ydyw i fod yn Weinidog dros Lywodraeth Agored, yr ydym am gael cyfle i’w holi. Nid yw teitl y Gweinidog dros Lywodraeth Agored yn cyd-fynd â’r realiti.

We cannot say the same of the other recent development: the billing of Mike German as the Minister for Rural Development and Wales Abroad. He seems to be determined to live up to that billing, but we will not have any opportunity of questioning him on his serious responsibilities. It is a complex issue, but I fear that we will not be given the opportunity to tackle it here.

Ni allwn ddweud yr un peth am y datblygiad diweddar arall: rhoi teitl y Gweinidog dros Ddatblygu Gwledig a Chymru Dramor i Mike German. Mae’n ymddangos yn benderfynol o wireddu’r hysbyseb honno, ond ni chawn unrhyw gyfle i’w holi am ei gyfrifoldebau difrif. Mae’n fater cymhleth, ond ofnaf na chawn gyfle i fynd i’r afael ag ef yma.

Labour AMs may have had the opportunity to discuss it at group meetings, but opposition members have not. There has been no proper scrutiny of this decision. Yesterday, at the Committee on European and External Affairs, which Mike German could not attend because he was overseas—which I understand—important issues were raised about the Wales European Centre. These matters are now his responsibility. Although he had submitted a paper, we could not question him on those responsibilities. If this democratic forum is to mean anything, we must have the opportunity to challenge Ministers about their responsibilities, and a committee should also scrutinise those responsibilities. These are important decisions, but we have had no opportunity to scrutinise them. That is why we have proposed amendment 1. The Minister was right to reopen this issue because it is important, but it does not end with the Presiding Officer’s ruling—that was a lawyer’s shuffle, which I always recognise, being a lawyer myself. The Government also has the right to make decisions on matters of accountability, as Carwyn Jones well knows. Nice try, Minister.

Efallai fod yr Aelodau Cynulliad Llafur wedi cael cyfle i’w drafod yn eu cyfarfodydd grŵp, ond ni chafodd aelodau’r wrthblaid. Ni fu craffu priodol ar y penderfyniad hwn. Ddoe, yn y Pwyllgor Materion Ewropeaidd ac Allanol, na allai Mike German ei fynychu am ei fod dramor—ac yr wyf yn deall hynny—fe godwyd materion pwysig ynghylch Canolfan Ewropeaidd Cymru. Mae’r materion hyn yn gyfrifoldeb iddo ef yn awr. Er ei fod wedi cyflwyno papur, ni allem ei holi ynghylch y cyfrifoldebau hynny. Os yw’r fforwm democrataidd hwn i olygu rhywbeth, rhaid inni gael cyfle i herio Gweinidogion ynghylch eu cyfrifoldebau, a dylai pwyllgor graffu’r cyfrifoldebau hynny hefyd. Penderfyniadau pwysig yw’r rhain, ond ni chawsom gyfle i’w craffu. Dyna pam yr ydym wedi cynnig gwelliant 1. Yr oedd yn briodol i’r Gweinidog ailgodi’r mater hwn gan ei fod yn bwysig, ond ni ddaw i ben gyda dyfarniad y Llywydd—shifflad gan gyfreithiwr oedd hwnnw, ac yr wyf yn ei adnabod bob amser, a minnau’n gyfreithiwr. Mae gan y Llywodraeth hawl i wneud penderfyniadau ar faterion o atebolrwydd hefyd, fel y gŵyr Carwyn yn iawn. Cynnig da, Weinidog.

On time limits, as Carwyn Jones rightly said, some time limits may be set down in this consultation, but some are already contained in Standing Orders, and some, in future, may be contained in Assembly resolutions. Therefore, amendment 2 is constructive in suggesting that, should time limits not be specified in today’s discussions, the Government could specify them. However, the time limits contained in Standing Orders will remain, and therefore, this discussion must be subject to Standing Orders, the Government of Wales Act 1998, and any Assembly resolutions.

Ynghylch y cyfyngiadau amser, fel y dywedodd Carwyn Jones, efallai y caiff rhai cyfyngiadau amser eu pennu yn yr ymgynghoriad hwn, ond fe geir rhai eisoes yn y Rheolau Sefydlog, ac efallai y ceir rhai ym mhenderfyniadau’r Cynulliad yn y dyfodol. Gan hynny, mae gwelliant 2 yn adeiladol drwy awgrymu, os na phennir cyfyngiadau amser yn y trafodaethau heddiw, y gallai’r Llywodraeth eu pennu. Fodd bynnag, bydd y cyfyngiadau amser yn y Rheolau Sefydlog yn aros, ac felly, rhaid i’r drafodaeth hon fod yn ddarostyngedig i’r Rheolau Sefydlog, Deddf Llywodraeth Cymru 1998, ac unrhyw benderfyniadau gan y Cynulliad.

We have not proposed an amendment on publishing Members’ allowances because we believe that it should be voluntary; many Assembly Members already publish their allowances, in addition to the information specified in today’s document. I believe that this is appropriate and should continue on a voluntary basis, although I am pleased that all members of my group publish their allowances. I hope that other Members tackle this issue when contributing to the debate.

Nid ydym wedi cynnig gwelliant ar gyhoeddi lwfansau’r Aelodau gan ein bod yn credu y dylai hynny fod yn wirfoddol; mae llawer o Aelodau’r Cynulliad yn cyhoeddi eu lwfansau eisoes, yn ogystal â’r wybodaeth a nodir yn y ddogfen hon heddiw. Credaf fod hynny’n briodol ac y dylai barhau’n wirfoddol, er fy mod yn falch bod holl aelodau fy ngrŵp i’n cyhoeddi eu lwfansau. Gobeithiaf y bydd Aelodau eraill yn ymdrin â’r mater hwn wrth gyfrannu i’r ddadl.

Rhodri Glyn Thomas siaradwyd yn Gymraeg t. 91

Rhodri Glyn Thomas spoken in Welsh p. 91

Trafodwn y cynllun drafft heddiw er mwyn egluro pa wybodaeth a gyhoeddir gan Gynulliad Cenedlaethol Cymru a Llywodraeth Cymru, a sut y bydd y wybodaeth hon yn cael ei chyhoeddi. Mae cynnwys y cynllun drafft hwn yn ymwneud â thryloywder ac atebolrwydd, ac felly, mae’n eithriadol o bwysig yng nghyd-destun canfyddiad y cyhoedd am Gynulliad Cenedlaethol Cymru a Llywodraeth Cymru.

We are discussing the draft scheme today to clarify what information the National Assembly for Wales and the Government of Wales will publish, and how this information will be published. The contents of this draft scheme deal with transparency and accountability, and, therefore, are exceptionally important in the context of the public’s perception of the National Assembly for Wales and the Government of Wales.

Fodd bynnag, bydd angen newid rhai manylion. Er enghraifft, mae’r cynllun drafft yn dal i sôn am gynnal Cyfarfodydd Llawn y Cynulliad ar brynhawn dydd Mawrth a bore dydd Iau. Bydd rhaid newid hynny, yn ôl penderfyniad diweddar y Cynulliad.

However, some details will need to be changed. For example, the draft scheme still refers to Plenary sessions being held on Tuesday afternoons and Thursday mornings. That will have to be changed following the Assembly’s recent decision.

Derbyniaf yr hyn mae Nick Bourne newydd ei ddweud ynglŷn â’r angen i osod amserlen yn y cynllun drafft ar gyfer atebolrwydd y Llywodraeth, a chefnogwn welliant 2. Er enghraifft, nid oes sôn yn y cynllun drafft am yr amserlen y mae’n rhaid i’r Llywodareth lynu ati wrth ateb cwestiynau ysgrifenedig. Gwyddom i gyd y dylai Gweinidogion ateb o fewn pum niwrnod—er ein bod ni hefyd yn gwybod nad yw hynny bob amser yn digwydd. Gobeithiaf y bydd y Llywodraeth yn cadw at yr amserlen honno, os yw’n cael ei chynnwys yn y cynllun.

I accept what Nick Bourne has just said about the need to set a timescale in the draft scheme for Government accountability, and we will support amendment 2. For example, the draft scheme does not mention the timescale within which the Government should answer written questions. We all know that Ministers should answer within five days—although we also know that that does not always happen. I hope that, if the timescale is included in the scheme, it will be adhered to.

Croesawn hefyd y ffaith y bydd datganiadau’r Cabinet yn parhau i gael eu cyhoeddi. Mae’r rhain yn eithriadol o bwysig gan fod y gwrthbleidiau’n ymateb i’r datganiadau hyn. Fodd bynnag, yr ydym yn anfodlon bod—a chododd Elin Jones y mater hwn mewn pwynt o drefn y bore yma—Gweinidogion yn dewis peidio â gwneud y datganiadau hyn yn y Siambr. Credaf fod hwn yn deimlad cyffredinol. Gobeithiaf y bydd Gweinidogion y Llywodraeth yn gwneud y datganiadau hyn yn y Siambr, yn hytrach na mynd i rywle arall i’w gwneud, fel a wnaeth Andrew Davies y bore yma. Mae’n bwysig hefyd nad yw datganiadau fel hyn yn cael eu gwneud i’r wasg a’r cyfryngau cyn eu bod yn cael eu gwneud yn gyhoeddus yma i Aelodau. Golyga hynny nad yw hi’n bosibl i Aelodau ymateb gyntaf i ddatganiadau.

We also welcome the fact that Cabinet statements will continue to be published. These are exceptionally important as opposition parties respond to these statements. However, we are unhappy that—and Elin Jones raised this as a point of order this morning—Ministers choose not to make these statements in the Chamber. I believe that this is the general consensus of opinion. I hope that, from now on, Government Ministers will make these statements in the Chamber, and not go elsewhere to make them, as Andrew Davies did this morning. It is also important that such statements are not made to the press and the media before they are made public here to Members. That means that it is not possible for Members to respond first to statements.

Mae sôn yma am gyhoeddiadau newydd. Croesawn hynny a gobeithiwn y golyga y bydd y Gweinidog newydd dros Lywodraeth Agored yn sicrhau y bydd hynny’n digwydd.

Reference is also made to new publications. We welcome that and hope that it will mean that the new Minister for Open Government will ensure that that happens.

Yn olaf, ar welliant 1 Jonathan Morgan, cytunwn ag egwyddor y gwelliant—dylai Gweinidogion fod yn atebol am eu cyfrifoldebau yn ogystal â’u swyddogaethau. Clywsom y drafodaeth hon eisoes. Yr wyf yn pryderu, fodd bynnag, y bydd cwestiynau i Weinidogion yn mynd ar chwâl yn gyfan gwbl ac na fydd unrhyw bosibilrwydd o ganolbwyntio ar brif gyfrifoldebau’r Gweinidog. Mawr obeithiaf na fyddwn yn creu rheolau yn y Cynulliad mewn ymateb i sefyllfa Gweinidogion unigol. Mae perygl yn hynny.

Finally, on Jonathan Morgan’s amendment 1, we agree with the principle of the amendment—Ministers should be accountable for their responsibilities as well as their functions. We have already heard that debate. I am concerned, however, that questions to Ministers will lose their focus completely and that there will be no possibility of focusing on the Minister’s main responsibilities. I very much hope that we will not draw up rules in the Assembly in response to the situation of an individual Minister. That poses a risk.

Cefnogaf y ffaith y dylid bod cyfle i gwestiynu Gweinidogion ar eu cyfrifoldebau yn ogystal â’u swyddogaethau. Cefnogaf y ffaith hefyd y dylai’r Pwyllgorau fod â chyfrifoldeb dros archwilio Gweinidogion am eu cyfrifoldebau â’u swyddogaethau. Fodd bynnag, gobeithiaf na fydd hynny’n arwain at sefyllfa lle y caiff cymaint o gwestiynau amrywiol ar ystod mor eang o bynciau eu cyflwyno—un ai lle mae’r Gweinidog yn ymateb i’r Cyfarfod Llawn, neu mewn Pwyllgor—fel bod y cyfan yn mynd ar chwâl. Gallai hynny greu problemau.

I support the fact that there should be an opportunity to question Ministers about their responsibilities as well as their functions. I also support the fact that Committees should be responsible for scrutinising Ministers on their responsibilities and their functions. However, I hope that that will not lead to a situation where so many varied questions on such a broad range of subjects are tabled—either where the Minister responds to Plenary, or in Committee—that we lose focus. That could cause difficulties.

Gair o rybudd yw hynny, felly, er y byddwn yn cefnogi’r gwelliant ac yn cytuno ag ef mewn egwyddor. Mae perygl i’r Cynulliad efallai fynd dros ben llestri wrth i ni fynd ar ôl holl gyfrifoldebau’r gwahanol Weinidogion. Efallai fod cyfrifoldeb ar y Prif Weinidog i fod ychydig yn fwy gofalus wrth ddirprwyo’r cyfrifoldebau hyn, yn hytrach na rhoi portffolio mor eang fel bod perygl y byddwn yn colli sylw ar y materion pwysig.

That is a word of warning, therefore, though we will support the amendment and agree with it in principle. There is a danger perhaps for the Assembly to go over the top as we pursue all the different ministerial responsibilities. Perhaps it is incumbent on the First Minister to be a little more careful when he delegates these responsibilities, rather than giving such wide-ranging portfolios that there is a danger that we lose sight of the important issues.

Peter Black spoken in English p. 93

Peter Black siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 93

Openness and transparency are the key pillars of the Assembly. We have already led the way in England and Wales in ensuring maximum openness for Government business. I am pleased that, as a result of the Freedom of Information Act 2000, England is finally catching up with us and introducing statutory provisions for other UK departments to open up their affairs. I was also interested to hear the Minister for Open Government say that even then we are still three years or so ahead of other Government departments in introducing such a scheme, and in ensuring that the people of Wales can clearly see what is going on in the Assembly and get the information that they need to ensure that they can pass judgment in next year’s Assembly elections.

Gweithredu agored a thryloywder yw prif golofnau’r Cynulliad. Yr ydym eisoes wedi arwain y ffordd yng Nghymru a Lloegr wrth sicrhau’r gweithredu mwyaf agored ym musnes Llywodraeth. Yr wyf yn falch bod Lloegr yn ein dal o’r diwedd, o ganlyniad i Ddeddf Rhyddid Gwybodaeth 2000, a’i bod yn cyflwyno darpariaethau statudol fel bod adrannau eraill yn y DU yn cyflawni eu busnes yn fwy agored. Yr oedd o ddiddordeb hefyd imi glywed y Gweinidog dros Lywodraeth Agored yn dweud y byddwn wedyn yn dal i fod yn rhyw dair blynedd ar y blaen i adrannau Llywodraeth eraill wrth gyflwyno cynllun o’r fath, ac wrth sicrhau bod pobl Cymru’n gallu gweld yn glir yr hyn sy’n mynd ymlaen yn y Cynulliad a chael y wybodaeth y mae arnynt ei hangen i sicrhau y gallant roi eu dedfryd yn etholiadau’r Cynulliad y flwyddyn nesaf.

It is also important to get the balance right between openness and accountability. They are not mutually exclusive, as previous speakers implied. I am sorry that Nick and Rhodri Glyn have sought to personalise this debate, instead of concentrating on the issues in terms of freedom of information and this draft publication scheme. I welcome this scheme and the requirement to open up information to the public. It fulfils the requirements specified in the Act. Only transparency of the political process will regain the public’s confidence in it and involve them again in that process. Without that proper accountability and openness, those who we serve will feel distanced from the Assembly. We must ensure that that does not happen. We need to interact with the public. The provisions of this scheme will enable us to do that by ensuring that they can get information, not just about Committee agendas, minutes, papers, and so on—all of which are already available on the Assembly’s internet site—along with AMs’ voting and attendance figures, but also other information, as and when we can publish it.

Mae hefyd yn bwysig sicrhau’r cydbwysedd cywir rhwng gweithredu agored ac atebolrwydd. Nid ydynt yn annibynnol ar ei gilydd, fel y mae siaradwyr blaenorol wedi awgrymu. Mae’n ofid i mi fod Nick a Rhodri Glyn wedi ceisio personoli’r ddadl hon, yn hytrach na chanolbwyntio ar y materion sy’n codi yng nghyd-destun rhyddid gwybodaeth a’r cynllun cyhoeddi drafft hwn. Croesawaf y cynllun hwn a’r gofyniad i agor gwybodaeth i’r cyhoedd. Mae’n cyflawni’r gofynion a nodir yn y Ddeddf. Dim ond tryloywder yn y broses wleidyddol a wnaiff ailennyn ffydd y cyhoedd ynddi a’u cynnwys eto yn y broses honno. Heb gael yr atebolrwydd a’r gweithredu agored priodol hwnnw, bydd y rhai a wasanaethwn yn teimlo eu bod yn bell oddi wrth y Cynulliad. Rhaid inni sicrhau na ddigwydd hynny. Rhaid inni ryngweithio â’r cyhoedd. Bydd darpariaethau’r cynllun hwn yn ein galluogi i wneud hynny drwy sicrhau y gallant gael gwybodaeth, nid yn unig am agendâu, cofnodion, papurau Pwyllgorau, ac yn y blaen—y maent i gyd ar gael eisoes ar wefan y Cynulliad ar y rhyngrwyd—ynghyd â ffigurau pleidleisio a phresenoldeb yr Aelodau Cynulliad, ond gwybodaeth arall hefyd, pan fyddwn yn gallu ei chyhoeddi.

I only regret that when the Act was passed, the UK Government did not take on board amendments that were proposed by Robert Maclennan and Simon Hughes—two Liberal Democrat MPs—which would have extended the public’s right to know about the facts behind Government decisions and would have given them new rights regarding the release of information. That source of information would have been valuable. However, if we can release such information within the terms of our powers and without compromising information given to us by Westminster, we will do so. We believe in open government. That is the message that must come from this debate. We should be truly accountable to the Welsh public. The draft scheme provides the foundation to ensure that that becomes reality.

Yr unig destun gofid i mi yw, pan basiwyd y Ddeddf, na dderbyniodd Llywodraeth y DU y gwelliannau a gynigiwyd gan Robert Maclennan a Simon Hughes—dau o AS y Democratiaid Rhyddfrydol—a fyddai wedi ymestyn hawl y cyhoedd i wybod am y ffeithiau y tu ôl i benderfyniadau Llywodraeth a rhoi hawliau newydd iddynt mewn perthynas â rhyddhau gwybodaeth. Buasai’r ffynhonnell wybodaeth honno’n werthfawr. Fodd bynnag, os gallwn ryddhau gwybodaeth o’r fath o fewn cwmpas ein pwerau a heb beryglu gwybodaeth a roddir i ni gan San Steffan, fe wnawn hynny. Credwn mewn llywodraeth agored. Rhaid i’r ddadl hon danlinellu’r neges honno. Dylem fod yn wirioneddol atebol i’r cyhoedd yng Nghymru. Y cynllun drafft yw’r sylfaen i wireddu hynny.

Carwyn Jones The Minister for Open Government spoken in English p. 94

Carwyn Jones Y Gweinidog dros Lywodraeth Agored siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 94

In terms of Nick Bourne’s comments, the Government does not contend, for example, that there is no need to extend the range of questions that Ministers are asked. However, this is not the correct forum in which to make that change. We need to discuss on a cross-party basis how to overcome the apparent restriction that Standing Orders place on us so that Ministers can answer a wider variety of questions than they do currently. We do not oppose that suggestion and we have understood the point made. The issue needs to be handled properly because it is complicated and cannot be dealt with during a Plenary debate.

Ynghylch sylwadau Nick Bourne, nid yw’r Llywodraeth yn dadlau, er enghraifft, nad oes angen ymestyn yr amrediad o gwestiynau a ofynnir i Weinidogion. Fodd bynnag, nid hwn yw’r fforwm cywir i wneud y newid hwnnw. Rhaid inni drafod yn drawsbleidiol sut y gallwn oresgyn y cyfyngiad ymddangosiadol y mae’r Rheolau Sefydlog yn ei roi arnom fel y gall y Gweinidogion ateb amrywiaeth ehangach o gwestiynau nag a wnânt ar hyn o bryd. Nid ydym yn gwrthwynebu’r awgrym hwnnw ac yr ydym wedi deall y pwynt a wnaed. Rhaid trin y mater yn briodol gan ei fod yn gymhleth ac ni ellir delio ag ef yn ystod dadl yn y Cyfarfod Llawn.

In calling the appointment of an Assembly Minister for Open Government an Orwellian contradiction, Nick Bourne is suggesting that there is no openness. The Conservative Government of the early 1980s could be accused of that. Its department of employment was an Orwellian contradiction.

Wrth alw penodi Gweinidog Cynulliad dros Lywodraeth Agored yn groesddywediad Orwellaidd, mae Nick Bourne yn awgrymu nad oes dim gweithredu agored. Gellid cyhuddo Llywodraeth Geidwadol y 1980au cynnar o hynny. Yr oedd ei hadran gyflogaeth yn groesddywediad Orwellaidd.

Individual Members must decide how they want to deal with the issue of allowances. An issue that needs to be resolved, and which all Members should consider, is whether it is lawful—

Rhaid i bob Aelod unigol benderfynu sut y mae am ymdrin â mater lwfansau. Un mater y mae’n rhaid ei ddatrys, ac y dylai pob Aelod ei ystyried, ydyw a yw’n gyfreithlon—

David Melding spoken in English p. 95

David Melding siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 95

I think that the Minister is about to discuss the point that I was going to make. The Code on Public Access to Information that the Assembly has adopted states that we should publish all information unless there are overriding legal reasons or reasons of confidentiality not to do so. If there are no such reasons in Scotland—and I accept that the law in Scotland may be slightly different—why are there reasons in Wales? Is it because Scottish law is different? Why do we not emulate the Scots if we are free to do so?

Credaf fod y Gweinidog ar fin trafod y pwynt yr oeddwn i am ei wneud. Mae’r Cod ar Ganiatáu i’r Cyhoedd Weld Gwybodaeth a fabwysiadodd y Cynulliad yn dweud y dylem gyhoeddi pob gwybodaeth oni bai fod rhesymau cyfreithiol hollbwysig neu resymau oherwydd cyfrinachedd dros beidio â gwneud hynny. Os nad oes rhesymau o’r fath yn yr Alban—a derbyniaf y gallai cyfraith yr Alban fod braidd yn wahanol—pam y mae rhesymau yng Nghymru? Ai am fod cyfraith yr Alban yn wahanol? Pam na wnawn efelychu’r Albanwyr os ydym yn rhydd i wneud hynny?

Carwyn Jones spoken in English p. 95

Carwyn Jones siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 95

Many Members, including myself, want to address the issue of whether it is lawful to release details of staff salary allowances under the Data Protection Act 1998. If such details are released, members of the public can find out how much each individual member of staff earns. I do not know the answer with regard to that issue. It needs to be clarified in fairness to staff. Assembly Members accept that their salaries and other financial details will become public when they take up their offices. This issue needs to be clarified with regard to staff. I am not saying that revealing the information is correct or not. However, I would like to be reassured regarding what is legal under the Data Protection Act 1998 before I release information about staff salary allowances.

Mae sawl Aelod, a minnau yn eu plith, am ystyried a yw’n gyfreithlon cyhoeddi manylion am lwfansau cyflogau staff o dan Ddeddf Diogelu Data 1998. Os cyhoeddir manylion o’r fath, bydd aelodau o’r cyhoedd yn gallu darganfod faint y mae pob aelod staff yn ei ennill. Ni wn yr ateb mewn cysylltiad â’r mater hwnnw. Rhaid cael gwedd eglurach arno er tegwch â’r staff. Mae Aelodau’r Cynulliad yn derbyn y bydd eu cyflogau a’u manylion ariannol eraill yn cael eu cyhoeddi pan ymgymerant â’u swydd. Rhaid rhoi gwedd eglurach ar y mater hwn mewn cysylltiad â’r staff. Nid wyf yn dweud bod datgelu’r wybodaeth yn gywir neu beidio. Fodd bynnag, hoffwn gael sicrwydd ynghylch yr hyn sy’n gyfreithlon o dan Ddeddf Diogelu Data 1998 cyn imi gyhoeddi gwybodaeth am lwfansau cyflogau staff.

David Melding spoken in English p. 95

David Melding siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 95

The Minister is making a substantive point. However, does that objection only apply to Members who only employ one member of staff?

Mae’r Gweinidog yn gwneud pwynt pwysig. Fodd bynnag, ai dim ond i Aelodau sy’n cyflogi un aelod staff y mae’r gwrthwynebiad hwnnw’n berthnasol?

Carwyn Jones spoken in English p. 95

Carwyn Jones siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 95

That is not correct. If a Member employs two members of staff or a full-time and a part-time member of staff, by publishing the staff salary allowances, one member of staff can deduce how much the other member of staff earns by subtracting their salaries from the allowance. That may breach the Data Protection Act 1998. The issue needs to be examined carefully before the information is released, in fairness to Members and staff. I do not know what provision is made in Scottish legislation in terms of that issue.

Nid yw hynny’n gywir. Os yw Aelod yn cyflogi dau aelod staff neu un aelod staff llawn amser ac un rhan amser, drwy gyhoeddi lwfansau cyflogau staff, gall un aelod staff ddyfalu faint y mae’r aelod staff arall yn ei ennill drwy dynnu ei gyflog o’r lwfans. Gallai hynny dorri Deddf Diogelu Data 1998. Rhaid archwilio’r mater yn ofalus cyn cyhoeddi’r wybodaeth, er tegwch â’r Aelodau a’r staff. Ni wn pa ddarpariaeth a wneir yn neddfwriaeth yr Alban ar y mater hwnnw.

John Marek The Deputy Presiding Officer spoken in English p. 96

John Marek Y Dirprwy Lywydd siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 96

We will now vote on the amendments to the first motion.

Pleidleisiwn yn awr ar y gwelliannau i’r cynnig cyntaf.

Gwelliant 1 Nick Bourne t. 96

Amendment 1 Nick Bourne p. 96

GwrthodwydRejected O blaidFor 16 YmatalAbstain 0 Yn erbynAgainst 25

Gwrthodwyd y gwelliant.

Amendment defeated.

Sut y pleidleisiodd yr AelodauHow Members voted
O blaidFor (16)
  • Nick Bourne
  • Alun Cairns
  • Cynog Dafis
  • David Davies
  • Geraint Davies
  • Glyn Davies
  • William Graham
  • Brian Hancock
  • Gareth Jones
  • Ieuan Wyn Jones
  • David Lloyd
  • David Melding
  • Peter Rogers
  • Janet Ryder
  • Owen John Thomas
  • Rhodri Glyn Thomas
Yn erbynAgainst (25)
  • Lorraine Barrett
  • Mick Bates
  • Peter Black
  • Eleanor Burnham
  • Rosemary Butler
  • Ron Davies
  • Sue Essex
  • Delyth Evans
  • Michael German
  • Brian Gibbons
  • Janice Gregory
  • John Griffiths
  • Christine Gwyther
  • Alison Halford
  • Edwina Hart
  • Jane Hutt
  • Ann Jones
  • Carwyn Jones
  • Peter Law
  • Val Lloyd
  • Rhodri Morgan
  • Alun Pugh
  • Karen Sinclair
  • Gwenda Thomas
  • Kirsty Williams

Gwelliant 2 Nick Bourne t. 96

Amendment 2 Nick Bourne p. 96

GwrthodwydRejected O blaidFor 16 YmatalAbstain 0 Yn erbynAgainst 25

Gwrthodwyd y gwelliant.

Amendment defeated.

Sut y pleidleisiodd yr AelodauHow Members voted
O blaidFor (16)
  • Nick Bourne
  • Alun Cairns
  • Cynog Dafis
  • David Davies
  • Geraint Davies
  • Glyn Davies
  • William Graham
  • Brian Hancock
  • Gareth Jones
  • Ieuan Wyn Jones
  • David Lloyd
  • David Melding
  • Peter Rogers
  • Janet Ryder
  • Owen John Thomas
  • Rhodri Glyn Thomas
Yn erbynAgainst (25)
  • Lorraine Barrett
  • Mick Bates
  • Peter Black
  • Eleanor Burnham
  • Rosemary Butler
  • Ron Davies
  • Sue Essex
  • Delyth Evans
  • Michael German
  • Brian Gibbons
  • Janice Gregory
  • John Griffiths
  • Christine Gwyther
  • Alison Halford
  • Edwina Hart
  • Jane Hutt
  • Ann Jones
  • Carwyn Jones
  • Peter Law
  • Val Lloyd
  • Rhodri Morgan
  • Alun Pugh
  • Karen Sinclair
  • Gwenda Thomas
  • Kirsty Williams

John Marek The Deputy Presiding Officer spoken in English p. 97

John Marek Y Dirprwy Lywydd siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 97

We will now vote on the first motion.

Pleidleisiwn yn awr ar y cynnig cyntaf.

Cynnig NDM1128 Carwyn Jones t. 97

Motion NDM1128 Carwyn Jones p. 97

DerbyniwydAdopted O blaidFor 41 YmatalAbstain 0 Yn erbynAgainst 0

Derbyniwyd y cynnig.

Motion carried.

Sut y pleidleisiodd yr AelodauHow Members voted
O blaidFor (41)
  • Lorraine Barrett
  • Mick Bates
  • Peter Black
  • Nick Bourne
  • Eleanor Burnham
  • Rosemary Butler
  • Alun Cairns
  • Cynog Dafis
  • David Davies
  • Geraint Davies
  • Glyn Davies
  • Ron Davies
  • Sue Essex
  • Delyth Evans
  • Michael German
  • Brian Gibbons
  • William Graham
  • Janice Gregory
  • John Griffiths
  • Christine Gwyther
  • Alison Halford
  • Brian Hancock
  • Edwina Hart
  • Jane Hutt
  • Ann Jones
  • Carwyn Jones
  • Gareth Jones
  • Ieuan Wyn Jones
  • Peter Law
  • David Lloyd
  • Val Lloyd
  • David Melding
  • Rhodri Morgan
  • Alun Pugh
  • Peter Rogers
  • Janet Ryder
  • Karen Sinclair
  • Gwenda Thomas
  • Owen John Thomas
  • Rhodri Glyn Thomas
  • Kirsty Williams

John Marek The Deputy Presiding Officer spoken in English p. 98

John Marek Y Dirprwy Lywydd siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 98

We will now vote on the second motion.

Pleidleisiwn yn awr ar yr ail gynnig.

Cynnig NNDM1129 Carwyn Jones t. 98

Motion NNDM1129 Carwyn Jones p. 98

DerbyniwydAdopted O blaidFor 40 YmatalAbstain 0 Yn erbynAgainst 0

Derbyniwyd y cynnig.

Motion carried.

Sut y pleidleisiodd yr AelodauHow Members voted
O blaidFor (40)
  • Lorraine Barrett
  • Mick Bates
  • Peter Black
  • Nick Bourne
  • Eleanor Burnham
  • Rosemary Butler
  • Alun Cairns
  • Cynog Dafis
  • David Davies
  • Geraint Davies
  • Glyn Davies
  • Sue Essex
  • Delyth Evans
  • Michael German
  • Brian Gibbons
  • William Graham
  • Janice Gregory
  • John Griffiths
  • Christine Gwyther
  • Alison Halford
  • Brian Hancock
  • Jane Hutt
  • Ann Jones
  • Carwyn Jones
  • Gareth Jones
  • Ieuan Wyn Jones
  • Peter Law
  • David Lloyd
  • Val Lloyd
  • David Melding
  • Rhodri Morgan
  • Alun Pugh
  • Jenny Randerson
  • Peter Rogers
  • Janet Ryder
  • Karen Sinclair
  • Gwenda Thomas
  • Owen John Thomas
  • Rhodri Glyn Thomas
  • Kirsty Williams

Dadl Fer

Short Debate

Prydles—Diwygio Pellach

Leasehold–Further Reform

Owen John Thomas spoken in English p. 99

Owen John Thomas siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 99

The population of Wales doubled between 1851 and 1901 and much of this increase took place in the south-east. That caused a demand for tens of thousands of new houses, many of which were built by great landowners such as the Marquises of Bute and the Lords of Tredegar.

Dyblodd poblogaeth Cymru rhwng 1851 a 1901 ac yr oedd llawer o’r cynnydd hwnnw yn y De-ddwyrain. O ganlyniad i hynny yr oedd galw am ddegau o filoedd o dai newydd, y codwyd llawer ohonynt gan dirfeddianwyr mawr fel Ardalyddion Bute ac Arglwyddi Tredegar.

These landowners and others took full advantage of the situation and made money by developing their land for housing, while rationing ownership of the land and charging ground rent on the houses that were sold with 99-year leases. A further source of quick capital was used occasionally by offering a batch of freeholds for sale. They certainly knew how to keep the penny and bun and add some jam and cream. The leaseholders had no right to demand to buy the freeholds of their homes and, at the end of the 99-year lease, the house as well as the land would go into the hands of the landowner. The leaseholder would become a rent-paying tenant in a house that he had worked and paid for. A 100 years ago, Lloyd George described the system as legalised robbery.

Manteisiwyd yn llawn ar y sefyllfa hon gan y tirfeddianwyr hyn ac eraill, a gwnaethant arian drwy ddatblygu eu tir ar gyfer tai, gan ddogni perchnogaeth y tir a chodi rhent tir ar y tai a werthwyd gyda phrydlesi 99 mlynedd. Defnyddid ffynhonnell arall weithiau i gael cyfalaf ar frys drwy roi casgliad o rydd-ddaliadau ar werth gyda’i gilydd. Fe wyddent sut i gadw’r geiniog a’r fynsen ac ychwanegu ychydig o jam a hufen ati. Nid oedd hawl gan y lesddeiliaid fynnu cael prynu rhydd-ddaliadau eu cartref ac ar ddiwedd y brydles 99 mlynedd, âi’r tŷ yn ogystal â’r tir i ddwylo’r tirfeddiannwr. Byddai’r lesddeiliad yn denant gan dalu rhent mewn tŷ yr oedd wedi gweithio a thalu amdano. Gan mlynedd yn ôl, galwodd Lloyd George y system hon yn lladrad cyfreithlon.

It was estimated that in the 1960s around 40 per cent of 99-year leasehold properties in England and Wales were based in Wales, which are only around 6 per cent of the combined housing stock of the two countries. Leasehold of this type is therefore very much a Welsh problem, although largely concentrated in Glamorgan and Gwent.

Amcangyfrifwyd bod tua 40 y cant o’r tai ar brydles 99 mlynedd yn y 1960au yng Nghymru a Lloegr i’w cael yng Nghymru, sef dim ond ond tua 6 y cant o’r holl stoc dai yn y ddwy wlad. Felly, mae prydles o’r math hwn yn broblem Gymreig i raddau helaeth, er ei bod i’w chael yn bennaf ym Morgannwg a Gwent.

In the 1950s, the proportion of homeowners began to increase considerably and, as the leases of houses built between 1850 and 1870 came close to expiry, the campaign for leasehold reform was launched in Cardiff. However, this campaign gained little sympathy in Westminster. As I have already stated, there was such a small proportion of houses with 99-year leases in England that the matter meant little to the Westminster Government. In England, 999-year leases with tiny peppercorn rents were more common. The great length of these leases made them the same as freehold properties.

Yn y 1950au, bu cynnydd sylweddol yn y gyfran o berchnogion tai ac, wrth i brydlesi’r tai a godwyd rhwng 1850 a 1870 ddod yn agos i’w terfyn, lansiwyd yr ymgyrch dros ddiwygio prydlesi yng Nghaerdydd. Fodd bynnag, ychydig o gydymdeimlad a enynnodd yr ymgyrch yn San Steffan. Fel y dywedais eisoes, yr oedd cyfran y tai â phrydlesi 99 mlynedd yn Lloegr mor fach fel nad oedd y mater hwn yn golygu fawr ddim i Lywodraeth San Steffan. Yn Lloegr, yr oedd prydlesi 999 mlynedd â rhenti rhad iawn yn fwy cyffredin. Gan fod y prydlesi hynny mor hir, yr oedd y tai yr un peth ag eiddo rhydd-ddaliol.

The Leasehold Reform Act 1967 came about as the result of many years of pressure from Wales, and one can read of Westminster’s general disinterest in the matter in Leo Abse’s book, Private Member. The Act gave leaseholders the right to buy their freeholds on demand. However, if they could not afford to pay the freehold price asked by the landlord, their only appeal was to the lands tribunal, where the costs involved would almost certainly exceed the reduction they might be awarded.

Yr oedd Deddf Diwygio Cyfraith Prydlesi 1967 yn ganlyniad i flynyddoedd lawer o bwyso o Gymru, a gellir darllen am ddifaterwch cyffredinol San Steffan ynghylch y mater yn llyfr Leo Abse, Private Member. Rhoddodd y Ddeddf hawl i lesddeiliaid brynu eu rhydd-ddaliadau ar eu cais. Fodd bynnag, os na allent fforddio talu’r pris a ofynnai’r landlord am yr eiddo, ni allent ond apelio i’r tribiwnlys tiroedd, lle y byddai’r costau cysylltiedig bron yn sicr o fod yn fwy na’r gostyngiad y gellid ei ddyfarnu iddynt.

The leaseholder, regardless of whether he went to the lands tribunal, not only had to pay the fees of the solicitor and the surveyor for the freehold transaction for himself but for the landowner also. The 1967 Act, although bestowing the right to demand to buy, did not effectively protect leaseholders from having to pay an unreasonable price to secure the freehold tenure of their homes.

Pa un a âi’r lesddeiliad i’r tribiwnlys tiroedd neu beidio, yn ogystal â thalu am ffïoedd y twrnai a’r tirfesurydd drosto’i hun i brynu’r rhydd-ddaliad, rhaid oedd iddo dalu costau’r tirfeddiannwr hefyd. Er bod Deddf 1967 yn rhoi’r hawl i fynnu prynu, nid oedd yn diogelu lesddeiliaid yn effeithiol rhag gorfod talu pris afresymol i sicrhau rhydd-ddaliad ar eu cartrefi.

Despite its weak nature and the supposedly radical outlook of Welsh MPs at that time, the only Welsh MP to criticise the Bill was Gwynfor Evans. He warned that if the Bill was passed as it stood, it would become a ‘groundlandlord’s charter’. His prophecy was soon realised and, as a consequence, a fresh campaign for the abolition or radical reform of the leasehold system was started in the early 1970s, in the wake of the shambolic 1967 Act. The campaign to abolish the 99-year leasehold system as it applied to houses was relaunched in Cardiff in 1978, when the Cathays and Roath Leasehold Association was formed to spearhead the campaign. An informal alliance was forged with the Riverside residents’ association led by a young lady named Sue Essex, who has sent her apologies for her absence from this debate.

Er gwaethaf ei wendid a barn radicalaidd dybiedig yr Aelodau Seneddol o Gymru ar y pryd, yr unig AS o Gymru a feirniadodd y Mesur oedd Gwynfor Evans. Rhybuddiodd, os câi’r Mesur ei basio fel yr oedd, y byddai’n dod yn dod yn ‘siarter i’r landlord tir’. Buan y gwireddwyd ei broffwydoliaeth ac, o ganlyniad, cychwynnwyd ymgyrch newydd i ddileu neu ddiwygio’r system brydlesol yn sylfaenol ar ddechrau’r 1970au, yn sgîl Deddf flêr 1967. Ail-lansiwyd yr ymgyrch i ddileu’r system brydlesol 99 mlynedd fel y’i cymhwysid at dai yng Nghaerdydd yn 1978, pan ffurfiwyd Cymdeithas Brydles Cathays a’r Rhath i arwain yr ymgyrch. Crëwyd cynghrair anffurfiol â chymdeithas drigolion Glanyrafon a arweinid gan fenyw ifanc o’r enw Sue Essex, sydd wedi anfon ei hymddiheuriadau am eu habsenoldeb o’r ddadl hon.

Working through Dafydd Wigley MP, I put a series of questions to the Westminster Government, who eventually made a concession to stem the growing success of the campaign. The concession came in the shape of local tribunals, where leaseholders could dispute the purchase prices of their freeholds free of cost. This measure formed part of the Housing Act 1980 and established a Welsh panel to form local leasehold tribunals.

Gan weithio drwy Dafydd Wigley AS, cyflwynais gyfres o gwestiynau i Lywodraeth San Steffan, a gytunodd ar gonsesiwn yn y diwedd i atal llwyddiant cynyddol yr ymgyrch. Daeth y consesiwn ar ffurf tribiwnlysoedd lleol, lle y gallai’r lesddeiliaid herio prisiau prynu eu rhydd-ddaliadau’n rhad ac am ddim. Yr oedd y mesur hwn yn rhan o Ddeddf Tai 1980 a sefydlodd banel Cymreig i ffurfio tribiwnlysoedd prydles lleol.

Evidence was gathered by the Cathays and Roath Leaseholders Association, and the first case to appear before the local tribunals, for a small terraced house in Hirwaun Street, Cathays, was heard in April 1981. The tribunal’s decision was a sweeping victory—the freehold value set by the landowners at £3,000 was reduced to £1,600. On the basis of the Hirwaun Street decision, 13 other leaseholders in the same area were able to purchase their freeholds for similar prices. Further cases in Cardiff and Rhondda saw considerable reductions in the freehold valuations of landlords. However, by the late 1980s, prices had once again begun to rise, and the system remains a problem.

Casglwyd tystiolaeth gan Gymdeithas Lesddeiliaid Cathays a’r Rhath, a daeth yr achos cyntaf gerbron y tribiwnlysoedd lleol, am dŷ teras bach yn Hirwaun Street, Cathays, yn Ebrill 1981. Yr oedd penderfyniad y tribiwnlys yn fuddugoliaeth ysgubol—gostyngwyd y gwerth rhydd-ddaliol o £3,000 a bennwyd gan y tirfeddianwyr i £1,600. Ar sail y penderfyniad am Hirwaun Street, llwyddodd 13 o lesddeiliaid eraill yn yr un ardal brynu eu rhydd-ddaliadau am brisiau tebyg. Gwelwyd gostyngiadau sylweddol ym mhrisiadau rhydd-ddaliadau’r landlordiaid mewn achosion pellach yng Nghaerdydd a’r Rhondda. Fodd bynnag, erbyn diwedd yr 1980au, dechreuodd y prisiau godi eto, ac mae’r system yn broblem o hyd.

I turn to some of the elements involved in the valuation and purchase of freeholds that need to be addressed. The standing value of the property is often overestimated. The value of the site as a portion of the property is often too high. The landowner can compel the leaseholder to insure the property with a named company and then seek compensation for loss of commission from the insurance company. The freeholder has to pay the fees of the solicitor and surveyor for both parties. Though the freehold purchase should be a simple matter involving three pieces of correspondence from each side, the combined fees often exceed £1,000 regardless of the value of the freehold. Landlords often delay the transaction, causing unnecessary concern to the leaseholder, despite the simplicity of the process. The landlord does not supply the leaseholder’s solicitor with a breakdown of the freehold valuation unless the leaseholder employs a surveyor; which can cost the leaseholder around £300 or more. When you buy a house, there is always plenty of evidence of its value but, in the case of freehold, there is no transparency, thus leaving you vulnerable to exploitation. Valuation panels deal mainly with rent assessment, and a leaseholder can wait over a year for a hearing. Although no costs are awarded at local tribunal hearings, a leaseholder would normally be represented by a solicitor and a surveyor, often making the process prohibitive. Leaseholders are usually aware that, as their lease shortens, so the freehold price increases, which exerts pressure on them to settle. All these circumstances combine to coerce the leaseholder into paying over the odds for his or her freehold. This element is referred to in tribunals as ‘the Delaforce effect’.

Trof at rai o’r elfennau sy’n gysylltiedig â phrisio a phrynu rhydd-ddaliadau y mae angen rhoi sylw iddynt. Caiff gwerth sefydlog eiddo ei orbrisio’n aml. Mae gwerth y safle fel rhan o’r eiddo’n rhy uchel mewn sawl achos. Gall y tirfeddiannwr orfodi’r lesddeiliad i yswirio’r eiddo gyda chwmni penodol ac wedyn ceisio iawndal am golli comisiwn gan y cwmni yswiriant. Rhaid i’r rhydd-ddeiliad dalu ffïoedd twrnai a thirfesurydd y ddwy ochr. Er y dylai prynu eiddo rhydd-ddaliadol fod yn fater syml o anfon tair gohebiaeth gan bob ochr, mae cyfanswm y ffïoedd yn fwy na £1,000 yn aml, beth bynnag yw gwerth y rhydd-ddaliad. Mae landlordiaid yn gohirio’r gwerthu yn aml, gan achosi pryder diangen i’r lesddeiliad, er symled y broses. Nid yw’r landlord yn rhoi dadansoddiad o werth y rhydd-ddaliad i dwrnai’r lesddeiliad oni bai fod y lesddeiliad yn cyflogi tirfesurydd; gall hynny gostio tua £300 neu ragor i’r lesddeiliad. Pan brynwch dŷ, mae digonedd o dystiolaeth o’i werth bob amser, ond yn achos rhydd-ddaliad, nid oes tryloywder, felly gellir manteisio’n annheg arnoch. Mae paneli prisio’n ymwneud yn bennaf ag asesu rhenti, a gall lesddeiliad aros dros flwyddyn am wrandawiad. Er na ddyfernir costau fel arfer yng ngwrandawiadau tribiwnlysoedd lleol, byddai lesddeiliad yn cael ei gynrychioli fel arfer gan dwrnai a thirfesurydd, gan wneud y broses yn un ddrud iawn yn aml. Fel arfer, mae lesddeiliaid yn ymwybodol y bydd pris y rhydd-ddaliad yn codi wrth i’r brydles ddod i derfyn, ac mae hynny’n rhoi pwysau arnynt i setlo. Mae’r holl amgylchiadau hyn gyda’i gilydd yn gorfodi’r lesddeiliad i dalu mwy na’r disgwyl am ei rydd-ddaliad. Yr enw a roddir ar yr elfen hon yn y tribiwnlysoedd yw ‘effaith Delaforce’.

For the last 20 years, I have acted as a voluntary adviser on leaseholds for the Cardiff citizens advice bureau. I am aware of the need for further leasehold reform. Today, most of the old estates have been sold and, in some cases, blocks of leasehold properties were auctioned and purchased by companies based in London and the Channel Islands. Communicating with these new landowners is difficult. A case with which I recently dealt involved a small terraced property in Llanbradach near Caerphilly. A Jersey-based company asked the leaseholder to pay £14,000 for the freehold. I intervened at the leaseholder’s request and the price of the freehold was brought down to £8,000, which the leaseholder, having witnessed a £6,000 drop in price, was prepared to pay. The freehold was valued at only £2,300, and I persuaded her to allow me to take the case to the local leasehold tribunal on her behalf—free of charge. I did this, and the tribunal agreed that the freehold’s value was £2,300.

Dros yr 20 mlynedd diwethaf, yr wyf wedi gweithredu fel ymgynghorydd gwirfoddol ar brydlesi i ganolfan gynghori Caerdydd. Gwn yr angen am ddiwygio pellach ar brydlesi. Heddiw, mae’r rhan fwyaf o’r hen ystadau wedi’u gwerthu ac, mewn sawl achos, arwerthwyd blociau o dai ar brydles i gwmnïau wedi’u lleoli yn Llundain ac Ynysoedd y Sianel. Mae’n anodd cyfathrebu â’r landlordiaid newydd hyn. Bûm yn gysylltiedig ag achos yn ddiweddar yn ymwneud â thŷ teras bach yn Llanbradach ger Caerffili. Gofynnodd cwmni sydd wedi’i leoli yn Jersey i’r lesddeiliad dalu £14,000 am y rhydd-ddaliad. Ymyrrais ar ran y lesddeiliad a daeth pris y rhydd-ddaliad i lawr i £8,000, ac yr oedd y lesddeiliad, wedi gweld gostyngiad o £6,000 yn y pris, yn fodlon ei dalu. Prisiwyd y rhydd-ddaliad yn ddim ond £2,300, ac fe’i darbwyllais i adael imi fynd â’r achos i’r tribiwnlys prydles lleol ar ei rhan—yn rhad ac am ddim. Gwneuthum hynny, a chytunodd y tribiwnlys mai gwerth y rhydd-ddaliad oedd £2,300.

This case, and many others, beg the question, ‘How many people are paying over the odds for their freeholds?’ Over the years, we have become accustomed to problems of particular interest to Wales being ignored at Westminster. Is it not time for the National Assembly to show that it will seek just reforms? The Minister for Finance, Local Government and Communities rejected an opportunity for the National Assembly to press for an amendment to the Commonhold and Leasehold Reform Bill during its passage through Parliament earlier this year. Since the Assembly’s inception, I have dealt voluntarily with several cases on behalf of leaseholders, all of which confirm the need for further reform. The ownership of land by another beneath one’s home can never be desirable. The National Assembly should seek to make freehold purchase simple, transparent and cheap.

Mae’r achos hwn, a sawl un arall, yn fy arwain i ofyn, ‘Faint o bobl sy’n talu mwy na’r disgwyl am eu rhydd-ddaliadau?’ Dros y blynyddoedd, daethom i arfer â gweld San Steffan yn anwybyddu problemau sydd o ddiddordeb penodol i Gymru. Onid yw’n bryd i’r Cynulliad Cenedlaethol ddangos y gwnaiff geisio diwygiadau teg? Gwrthododd y Gweinidog dros Gyllid, Llywodraeth Leol a Chymunedau gyfle i’r Cynulliad Cenedlaethol bwyso am welliant i’r Mesur Cydradd-ddaliad a Diwygio Prydlesi yn ystod ei hynt drwy’r Senedd yn gynharach eleni. Ers sefydlu’r Cynulliad, yr wyf wedi delio’n wirfoddol â sawl achos ar ran lesddeiliaid, yr oedd pob un ohonynt yn cadarnhau’r angen am ddiwygio pellach. Ni all byth fod yn ddymunol i rywun arall fod yn berchen ar y tir o dan eich cartref. Dylai’r Cynulliad Cenedlaethol geisio’i gwneud yn syml, yn dryloyw ac yn rhad i brynu rhydd-ddaliad.

I will conclude with an anecdote about a landowner, who is not a farmer. One day, a Welshman was sitting on a river bank when he was approached by a haughty gentleman who demanded, ‘What are you doing?’. ‘Well, I’m fishing of course,’ said the Welshman, to which the landowner said, ‘You are trespassing on my land’. ‘Your land, is it? Where did you get it from?’ said the Welshman. ‘Why, I got it from my father, and my father’s father’s father,’ replied the landowner indignantly. ‘Well, where did your father’s father’s father get the land from in the first place,’ asked the Welshman. ‘He fought for it, my man,’ answered the angry landowner. ‘Well, said the Welshman, take your coat off and I will fight you for it now’.

Terfynaf drwy adrodd stori am dirfeddiannwr, ac nid ffermwr ydyw. Un diwrnod, yr oedd Cymro’n eistedd ar lan afon pan ddaeth gŵr bonheddig ffroenuchel ato a gofyn, ‘Beth yr ydych yn ei wneud?’. ‘Wel, pysgota, wrth gwrs,’ meddai’r Cymro, ac ateb y tirfeddiannwr i hynny oedd, ‘Yr ydych yn tresmasu ar fy nhir’. ‘Eich tir chi ydyw, ai ef? Gan bwy y’i cawsoch?’ meddai’r Cymro. ‘Gan fy nhad, a chan dad tad fy nhad,’ atebodd y tirfeddiannwr yn ddig. ‘Wel, gan bwy y cafodd tad tad eich tad y tir yn y lle cyntaf?’ gofynnodd y Cymro. ‘Fe ymladdodd amdano, ddyn,’ atebodd y tirfeddiannwr blin. ‘Wel,’ meddai’r Cymro, ‘tynnwch eich côt ac fe ymladdaf â chi amdano’n awr’.

Peter Black The Deputy Minister for Local Government spoken in English p. 103

Peter Black Y Dirprwy Weinidog dros Lywodraeth Leol siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 103

I always enjoy Owen John’s history lessons and I was fascinated by that contribution.

Yr wyf bob amser yn mwynhau gwersi hanes Owen John ac fe’m cyfareddwyd gan y cyfraniad hwnnw.

I am somewhat surprised by the topic of today’s debate. The leasehold system has been reformed recently, following the successful passage of the Commonhold and Leasehold Reform Bill through Parliament. Work has hardly started on implementing the provisions of the new Commonhold and Leasehold Reform Act 2002. It is premature to talk of further reform at this stage. However, I understand the concerns raised about the system and I appreciate that, even with the introduction of the new Act, some feel that it has not gone far enough. However, the provisions contained in the new Act will benefit the people of Wales and will go some way to prevent the abuses of the system that were seen in the past.

Yr wyf yn synnu braidd at bwnc y ddadl heddiw. Diwygiwyd y system brydlesol yn ddiweddar, wedi hynt llwyddiannus y Mesur Cydradd-ddaliad a Diwygio Prydlesi drwy’r Senedd. Braidd y dechreuodd y gwaith o weithredu darpariaethau Deddf Cydradd-ddaliad a Diwygio Prydlesi 2002. Rhy fuan yw sôn am ddiwygio pellach ar hyn o bryd. Fodd bynnag, deallaf y pryderon a godwyd ynghylch y system ac yr wyf yn sylweddoli, hyd yn oed ar ôl cyflwyno’r Ddeddf newydd, fod rhai’n teimlo nad yw’n mynd yn ddigon pell. Fodd bynnag, bydd darpariaethau y Ddeddf newydd o fudd i bobl Cymru a byddant yn cyfrannu i ryw raddau at atal y camddefnyddio ar y system a welwyd yn y gorffennol.

It has long been recognised that the system is fundamentally flawed. Since the pioneering Leasehold Reform Act 1967, several attempts have been made to remedy the worst defects of this form of tenure and give leaseholders redress against landlords’ abuse of the system. The latest reforms are embodied in the Commonhold and Leasehold Reform Act 2002, which was given Royal Assent on 1 May 2002.

Cydnabyddir ers talwm fod diffyg sylfaenol yn y system. Ers y Ddeddf Diwygio Cyfraith Prydlesi 1967 arloesol, cafwyd sawl ymgais i gywiro diffygion gwaethaf y math hwn o ddeiliadaeth ac i roi iawn i lesddeiliaid am y camddefnyddio ar y system gan landlordiaid. Mae’r diwygiadau diweddaraf wedi’u hymgorffori yn Neddf Cydradd-ddaliad a Diwygio Prydlesi 2002, a gafodd y Cydsyniad Brenhinol ar 1 Mai 2002.

The Act does not contain separate issues for Wales, and the Assembly has supported the Bill’s proposals from the outset. We have been involved in the consultation process at all stages. The Assembly has secondary legislative powers under the Act for leasehold provision.

Nid yw’r Ddeddf yn cynnwys materion Cymru ar wahân, ac mae’r Cynulliad wedi cefnogi cynigion y Mesur o’r dechrau. Buom yn ymwneud â phob cam o’r broses ymgynghori. Mae gan y Cynulliad bwerau deddfu eilaidd o dan y Ddeddf ar y darpariaethau ar gyfer prydles.

William Graham spoken in English p. 104

William Graham siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 104

Thank you for taking an intervention. I asked Owen John Thomas for a minute to contribute, but he got carried away.

Diolch i chi am dderbyn ymyriad. Gofynnais i Owen John Thomas am funud i gyfrannu, ond collodd arno ei hun.

Do you not agree that the ethos behind the original Act, the amending Act, and the present Act that has just been given Royal Assent, is to make professional advice available to individuals so that they are not caused unnecessary distress. I laud the way in which this has been brought to public attention, but you must agree that professional advice must be sought at the earliest possible opportunity, to prevent the abuse that Owen John outlined.

A gytunwch mai’r ethos a oedd yn sail i’r Ddeddf wreiddiol, y Ddeddf ddiwygio, a’r Ddeddf bresennol sydd newydd gael y Cydsyniad Brenhinol, yw y dylid darparu cyngor proffesiynol i unigolion fel nad achosir gofid diangen iddynt. Canmolaf y modd y daethpwyd â hyn i sylw’r cyhoedd, ond rhaid ichi gytuno y dylid ceisio cyngor proffesiynol ar y cyfle cyntaf posibl, i atal y camddefnydd a ddisgrifiodd Owen John.

Peter Black spoken in English p. 104

Peter Black siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 104

Professional advice is important, but Owen John is concerned about cost. As a professional yourself, you will understand that that can be a problem, in terms of people seeking to buy the freehold of their homes. As part of that, there are provisions, and I will talk about those later, on how people can challenge advice, valuations and the fees that professional advisers charge for advising landlords, in particular.

Mae cyngor proffesiynol yn bwysig, ond mae Owen John yn pryderu ynghylch y gost. A chithau’n weithiwr proffesiynol, byddwch yn deall y gall hyn fod yn broblem, yn nhermau pobl sy’n ceisio prynu rhydd-ddaliad eu cartrefi. Rhan o hynny yw’r darpariaethau, y byddaf yn sôn amdanynt yn ddiweddarach, ar gyfer y modd y gall pobl herio cyngor, prisiadau a’r ffïoedd y mae ymgynghorwyr proffesiynol yn eu codi am gynghori landlordiaid, yn benodol.

The Assembly has secondary legislative powers in the Act, as far as the leasehold provisions are concerned, and will be working to bring the provisions into force in Wales over the coming months. The provisions relating to commonhold are not devolved, but will apply in Wales.

Mae gan y Cynulliad bwerau deddfu eilaidd yn y Ddeddf, o ran y darpariaethau ar gyfer prydles, a bydd yn gweithio er mwyn rhoi’r darpariaethau mewn grym yng Nghymru dros y misoedd i ddod. Nid yw’r darpariaethau sy’n gysylltiedig â deiliadaeth gyffredin wedi’u datganoli, ond byddant yn weithredol yng Nghymru.

The new Act, which gives leaseholders new rights, and enhances their existing rights, is the result of wide consultation in England and Wales, and is specifically directed to protecting leaseholders from abuses of the system. The provisions are intended to provide solutions to many problems arising in the residential leasehold sector, mainly concerning leasehold flats where the problems are most severe. Leasehold houses are also addressed.

Mae’r Ddeddf newydd, sy’n rhoi hawliau newydd i lesddeiliaid, ac yn hyrwyddo’r hawliau sydd ganddynt eisoes, yn ganlyniad i ymgynghori eang yng Nghymru a Lloegr, a’i bwriad penodol yw amddiffyn lesddeiliaid rhag camddefnydd o’r system. Amcan y darpariaethau yw darparu atebion i lawer o broblemau sy’n codi yn y sector prydlesol preswyl, sy’n ymwneud yn bennaf â fflatiau ar brydles lle y mae’r problemau ar eu gwaethaf. Ymdrinnir â thai ar brydles hefyd.

Owen John Thomas spoken in English p. 105

Owen John Thomas siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 105

You must have been looking at a different Act to the one that I have read. I have studied it thoroughly, and can assure you that no measures in the Commonhold and Leasehold Reform Act 2002 cover the points that I raised today. They do not make a jot of difference. As far as talking with people is concerned, very little talking took place in this establishment, as my letters to the Minister prove.

Mae’n rhaid eich bod wedi edrych ar Ddeddf wahanol i’r un a ddarllenais i. Fe’i hastudiais yn drwyadl, a gallaf eich sicrhau nad oes unrhyw fesurau yn Neddf Cydradd-ddaliad a Diwygio Prydlesi 2002 sy’n ymwneud â’r pwyntiau a godais heddiw. Nid ydynt yn gwneud yr un iot o wahaniaeth. O ran siarad â phobl, ychydig iawn a ddigwyddodd yn y sefydliad hwn, fel y mae fy llythyrau at y Gweinidog yn ei brofi.

Peter Black spoken in English p. 105

Peter Black siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 105

I will give you two examples, Owen John. First, the Act allows leaseholders of houses, who have previously extended their leases, the right to buy the freehold of the property or to stay on as an assured tenant. Secondly, it has improved the rights of those who have inherited a leasehold house from a deceased leaseholder who qualified for the right to extend and/or enfranchise.

Rhoddaf ddwy enghraifft i chi, Owen John. Yn gyntaf, mae’r Ddeddf yn rhoi i lesddeiliaid tai, a ymestynnodd eu prydlesi o’r blaen, yr hawl i brynu rhydd-ddaliad yr eiddo neu aros yno fel tenant sicr. Yn ail, mae wedi gwella hawliau’r rhai sydd wedi etifeddu tŷ ar brydles gan lesddeiliad a fu farw a oedd yn gymwys i gael yr hawl i ymestyn ac/neu freinio prydles.

Owen John Thomas a gododd—

Owen John Thomas rose—

Peter Black spoken in English p. 105

Peter Black siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 105

Let me continue; I will raise some of your points later on.

Gadewch imi fynd ymlaen; gwnaf ymdrin â rhai o’ch pwyntiau’n ddiweddarach.

John Marek The Deputy Presiding Officer spoken in English p. 106

John Marek Y Dirprwy Lywydd siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 106

Order. Unless the Deputy Minister gives way, Members must remain seated.

Trefn. Oni bai fod y Dirprwy Weinidog yn ildio, rhaid i’r Aelodau aros ar eu heistedd.

Peter Black spoken in English p. 106

Peter Black siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 106

The Act does contain provisions relating to leasehold houses, and my assertion—that some of the problems caused by current leasehold law are addressed in the Act—is true. I accept that you may not agree that that is sufficient, and you may wish to introduce other provisions. The fact remains that the Act addresses some of the problems raised during the consultation.

Mae’r Ddeddf yn cynnwys darpariaethau sy’n ymwneud â thai ar brydles, ac mae fy haeriad—bod rhai o’r problemau a achosir gan y gyfraith prydlesi bresennol yn derbyn sylw yn y Ddeddf—yn wir. Derbyniaf nad ydych yn cytuno ei bod yn ddigonol o bosibl, ac y gallech ddymuno cyflwyno darpariaethau eraill. Mae’n wir, er hynny, fod y Ddeddf yn ymdrin â rhai o’r problemau a godwyd yn ystod yr ymgynghoriad.

Although the UK Government and I recognise that the Act is not the panacea for our leasehold problems, the new legislation will be of significant benefit to leaseholders of flats and houses in Wales. In particular, it will be of great help to those who are unable to, or do not wish to, convert to the new form of tenure called commonhold.

Er bod Llywodraeth y DU a minnau’n cydnabod nad yw’r Ddeddf yn foddion at bob clwyf o ran ein problemau prydles, bydd y ddeddfwriaeth newydd o gryn fudd i lesddeiliaid mewn fflatiau a thai yng Nghymru. Yn benodol, bydd o gymorth mawr i’r rhai na allant, neu na ddymunant, droi at y ffurf newydd o deiliadaeth o’r enw deiliadaeth gyffredin.

Commonhold is a new form of ownership for flats; it is an alternative to leasehold and will eventually replace it. Commonhold will provide a better system for the future ownership and management of blocks of flats, and other interdependent buildings with shared services and common parts. It will be available for new developments. The Act also contains provisions that will allow conversion to commonhold.

Mae deiliadaeth gyffredin yn ffurf newydd o berchnogaeth ar gyfer fflatiau; mae’n ddewis yn lle prydles a bydd yn cymryd ei lle yn y pen draw. Bydd deiliadaeth gyffredin yn well system at y dyfodol ar gyfer perchen a chadw trefn ar flociau o fflatiau, ac adeiladau rhyngddibynnol eraill lle y mae gwasanaethau ar y cyd a rhannau cyffredin. Bydd ar gael ar gyfer datblygiadau newydd. Ceir darpariaethau yn y Ddeddf hefyd a fydd yn caniatáu troi ar ddeiliadaeth gyffredin.

Leasehold law is a complex subject and, for now, it is important to recognise and concentrate on the benefits that the new Act will bring.

Mae cyfraith prydlesi’n bwnc cymhleth ac, am y tro, mae’n bwysig cydnabod a chanolbwyntio ar y buddion a ddaw yn sgîl y Ddeddf newydd.

Owen John Thomas spoken in English p. 106

Owen John Thomas siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 106

I assure you that I have been dealing with this subject for over 30 years. It is as complicated as those people who make money out of it wish it to appear. It should be as simple as buying a bag of tomatoes in a fruit shop.

Yr wyf yn eich sicrhau fy mod yn ymdrin â’r mater hwn ers dros 30 mlynedd. Mae mor gymhleth ag y mae’r rhai sy’n elwa arno’n dymuno iddo ymddangos. Dylai fod mor syml â phrynu bagaid o domatos mewn siop ffrwythau.

Peter Black spoken in English p. 107

Peter Black siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 107

You are talking about the complexities of the conveyancing process, but I am talking about the complexities of leasehold law. I know what I am talking about. It can be a complex subject.

Yr ydych chi’n sôn am gymhlethdodau’r broses drawsgludo, ond yr wyf fi’n sôn am gymhlethdodau cyfraith prydlesi. Yr wyf yn gwybod fy mhethau. Fe all fod yn bwnc cymhleth.

I will continue and tell you what the Act provides. It makes enfranchisement easier for leaseholders of flats and houses, and makes lease extensions easier to obtain. We must remember that if a lease is coming to the end of its 99-year term, the option is available to extend it if the leaseholder does not wish to purchase the freehold.

Fe af ymlaen a dweud wrthych am yr hyn y mae’r Ddeddf yn ei ddarparu. Mae’n ei gwneud yn haws i lesddeiliaid fflatiau a thai freinio eu prydlesi, ac mae’n ei gwneud yn haws cael estyniadau i brydlesi. Rhaid inni gofio bod dewis gan y lesddeiliaid i ymestyn y brydles, os yw’n dod i ddiwedd ei chyfnod o 99 mlynedd, os nad yw’n dymuno prynu’r rhydd-ddaliad.

Brian Hancock a gododd—

Brian Hancock rose—

Peter Black spoken in English p. 107

Peter Black siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 107

I will continue, Brian. As well as the two clauses that I referred to earlier, relating to houses, the Act prevents the abuses associated with nominated insurer clauses for houses, by allowing the leaseholder to arrange insurance with the insurer of his or her choice, subject to certain conditions. It strengthens leaseholders’ rights against unreasonable charges levied under the lease and also strengthens leaseholders’ rights to be consulted. It provides that charges levied by landlords under an estate management scheme can be challenged before a leasehold valuation tribunal. It strengthens accounting rules for leaseholders’ monies and requires landlords to hold service-charge funds in designated separate client accounts. It makes lease variations easier to obtain and strengthens the right to seek the appointment of a new manager by a leasehold valuation tribunal under the Landlord and Tenant Act 1987. It prevents landlords from taking action for unpaid ground rent, unless it has first been demanded in writing. It introduces new safeguards to prevent abuses of the forfeiture process and consolidates and amends the existing leasehold valuation tribunal provisions to make them more effective and efficient.

Af yn fy mlaen, Brian. Yn ogystal â’r ddau gymal y cyfeiriais atynt yn gynharach, sy’n ymwneud â thai, mae’r Ddeddf yn atal y camddefnydd sy’n gysylltiedig â chymalau sy’n enwebu yswiriwr ar gyfer tai, drwy ganiatáu i’r lesddeiliad drefnu yswiriant gyda’r yswiriwr o’i ddewis, ar rai amodau. Mae’n cryfhau hawliau lesddeiliaid rhag codi taliadau afresymol arnynt dan y brydles a hefyd yn cryfhau hawliau lesddeiliaid o ran ymgynghori â hwy. Mae’n rhagnodi y gellir herio taliadau a godir gan landlordiaid dan gynllun rheoli ystad gerbron tribiwnlys prisio prydlesi. Mae’n cryfhau’r rheolau cyfrifyddu ar gyfer arian lesddeiliaid ac yn mynnu bod landlordiaid yn cadw cronfeydd taliadau gwasanaeth mewn cyfrifon dynodedig ar wahân ar gyfer eu cleientiaid. Mae’n ei gwneud yn haws sicrhau newidiadau mewn prydlesi ac yn cryfhau’r hawl i geisio penodiad rheolwr newydd gan dribiwnlys prisio prydlesi dan Ddeddf Landlord a Thenant 1987. Mae’n atal landlordiaid rhag cymryd camau i gael rhent tir sydd heb ei thalu, oni bai ei bod wedi’i hawlio mewn ysgrifen yn gyntaf. Mae’n cyflwyno amddiffyniadau newydd i atal camddefnyddio’r broses fforffedu ac yn cyfuno ac yn newid y darpariaethau presennol ar gyfer tribiwnlysoedd prisio prydlesi i’w gwneud yn fwy effeithiol ac effeithlon.

Those are effective clauses, which will make a huge difference to many people in Wales. I hope that you agree that these reforms will go some way to redress the uneven balance between landlords and leaseholders. They will also give leaseholders a greater degree of control over the management of their homes, reflecting the substantial investment they have made. They should also prevent unreasonable and oppressive behaviour by unscrupulous landlords, and will provide flexibility to tackle any new forms of abuse that may arise.

Cymalau effeithiol yw’r rheini, a wnaiff wahaniaeth aruthrol i lawer o bobl yng Nghymru. Gobeithiaf eich bod yn cytuno y bydd y diwygiadau hyn yn cyfrannu i ryw raddau at adfer yr anghydbwysedd rhwng landlordiaid a lesddeiliaid. Byddant hefyd yn rhoi mwy o reolaeth i lesddeiliaid dros y dull o reoli eu cartrefi, gan adlewyrchu eu buddsoddiad sylweddol ynddynt. Dylent hefyd rwystro ymddygiad afresymol a gormesol gan landlordiaid diegwyddor, a byddant yn darparu hyblygrwydd i ddelio ag unrhyw fathau newydd o gamddefnydd a allai godi.

Owen John Thomas spoken in English p. 108

Owen John Thomas siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 108

I had always thought that your party agreed with the reforms that I talked about today. I am surprised that you seem to be going down a different path, but then you are only the Government’s spokesman. Do you appreciate that I was talking about 99-year leases on houses? I did not refer to flats at all; I agree that flats are a much more complicated matter and that is why I did not refer to them. The problem in Wales has always been with leasehold houses and being able to purchase a freehold—the land beneath your own home—easily and at a fair price. Do you agree?

Yr oeddwn yn meddwl erioed fod eich plaid yn cytuno â’r diwygiadau y siaredais amdanynt heddiw. Yr wyf yn synnu eich bod, i bob golwg, yn dilyn llwybr gwahanol, ond wedyn, llefarydd yn unig dros y Llywodraeth ydych. A ydych yn sylweddoli fy mod yn sôn am brydlesi 99 mlynedd ar dai? Ni chyfeiriais at fflatiau o gwbl; cytunaf fod fflatiau’n fater mwy cymhleth o lawer a dyna pam na chyfeiriais atynt. Mae’r broblem yng Nghymru yn ymwneud erioed â thai ar brydles a’r gallu i brynu rhydd-ddaliad—y tir o dan eich cartref eich hun—yn hawdd ac am bris teg. A ydych yn cytuno?

Peter Black spoken in English p. 108

Peter Black siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 108

First, my party has always supported the reform of leasehold, and we continue to do so. I appreciate that you were talking about 99-year leases, but I have been trying, before specifically addressing some of your points, to outline the reforms which have occurred. Those reforms affect leaseholders’ rights in houses, including those who have 99-year leases. Those rights have been strengthened. It is important to acknowledge that the Commonhold and Leasehold Reform Act 2002, which has been received Royal Assent, strengthens those rights and gives further protection to leaseholders and improves their position. It is reasonable that you acknowledge that.

Yn gyntaf, mae fy mhlaid yn cefnogi diwygio prydles erioed, a pharhawn i wneud hynny. Sylweddolaf eich bod yn sôn am brydlesi 99 mlynedd, ond bûm yn ceisio amlinellu rhai o’r newidiadau a ddigwyddodd, cyn ymdrin yn benodol â rhai o’ch pwyntiau. Mae’r newidiadau hynny’n effeithio ar hawliau lesddeiliaid mewn tai, gan gynnwys y rhai sydd â phrydlesi 99 mlynedd. Cryfhawyd yr hawliau hynny. Mae’n bwysig cydnabod bod Deddf Cydradd-ddaliad a Diwygio Prydlesi 2002, sydd wedi derbyn Cydsyniad y Frenhines, yn cryfhau’r hawliau hynny ac yn rhoi amddiffyniad pellach i lesddeiliaid ac yn gwella eu sefyllfa. Mae’n rhesymol ichi gydnabod hynny.

There are three important issues with regard to your specific points. First, if leaseholders are pursuing their statutory right to buy a freehold and do not agree with the suggested price, as you said, they can apply free of charge to the leasehold valuation tribunal to fix a price. Many people are taking that action. I live in a community in Swansea where there are many 99-year leases. I bought my house freehold, but it previously had leasehold status and the previous occupants had bought the freehold. The opportunity to take a valuation to a tribunal is available and is free of charge.

Mae tri mater pwysig mewn cysylltiad â’ch pwyntiau penodol. Yn gyntaf, os yw lesddeiliaid yn dilyn eu hawl statudol i brynu rhydd-ddaliad a hwythau’n anghytuno â’r pris a awgrymwyd, fel y dywedasoch, gallant ymgeisio’n ddi-dâl i’r tribiwnlys prisio prydlesi i bennu pris. Mae llawer o bobl yn cymryd y camau hynny. Yr wyf yn byw mewn cymuned yn Abertawe lle y mae llawer o brydlesi 99 mlynedd. Prynais fy nhŷ fy hun fel eiddo rhydd-ddaliad, ond yr oedd gynt yn dŷ ar brydles ac yr oedd y deiliaid blaenorol wedi prynu’r rhydd-ddaliad. Mae cyfle ar gael i fynd â phrisiad at dribiwnlys yn rhad ac am ddim.

Secondly, we must recognise that when people exercise their right to buy their freehold, which is in effect a compulsory purchase, leaseholders must pay their own costs and the reasonable cost that the landlord would expect to pay if he was paying his own costs. That happens in many commercial transactions. However, if leaseholders think that the landlord’s costs are unreasonable, they can apply to a land valuation tribunal for a determination.

Yn ail, rhaid inni gydnabod, pan yw pobl yn arfer eu hawl i brynu eu rhydd-ddaliad, sy’n bryniad gorfodol i bob pwrpas, fod yn rhaid i lesddeiliaid dalu eu costau eu hunain a’r gost resymol y byddai’r landlord yn disgwyl ei thalu pe bai’n talu ei gostau ei hun. Mae hynny’n digwydd mewn llawer o drafodion masnachol. Fodd bynnag, os yw lesddeiliaid yn credu bod costau’r landlord yn afresymol, gallant ymgeisio i dribiwnlys prisio tir am ddyfarniad.

Owen John Thomas spoken in English p. 109

Owen John Thomas siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 109

Do you appreciate that when you go to a local tribunal you must demonstrate why you think that the freehold value should be lowered? You cannot say that you want the price to be cheaper because it is too high. You must demonstrate your reason. To be able to do that you must understand the formula that is used to determine the freehold price. If you do not—and I imagine that 99.9 per cent of ordinary citizens do not—you will have to employ a surveyor to do so.

A ydych yn sylweddoli bod rhaid i chi ddangos pam y credwch y dylid gostwng gwerth y rhydd-ddaliad pan ewch i dribiwnlys lleol? Ni allwch ddweud eich bod am gael pris rhatach am ei fod yn rhy uchel. Rhaid ichi ddangos eich rheswm. I allu gwneud hynny, rhaid ichi ddeall y fformiwla a ddefnyddir i bennu pris y rhydd-ddaliad. Os nad ydych—a thybiaf nad yw 99.9 y cant o ddinasyddion cyffredin yn ei deall—rhaid ichi gyflogi tirfesurydd i wneud hynny.

Once you have to employ a surveyor and a solicitor, you are talking about increasing the costs to such an extent that the reduction you are seeking in the freehold price will be wiped out. I have tried to make that point clearly, therefore do you recognise it?

Wedi ichi gyflogi tirfesurydd a thwrnai, mae hynny’n golygu cynyddu’r costau i’r fath raddau fel y caiff y gostyngiad yr ydych yn ei geisio ym mhris y rhydd-ddaliad ei ddileu’n llwyr. Yr wyf wedi ceisio gwneud y pwynt hwnnw’n glir, felly a ydych yn ei gydnabod?

Peter Black spoken in English p. 109

Peter Black siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 109

It is a valid point that, if leaseholders go to a tribunal, they have to make a case. Although leaseholders have rights, they must also recognise land law. We cannot unpick 300 or so years of land law and effectively say that we intend to abolish freehold. Freeholders have rights also, but, if they go to a tribunal, they will have to argue their case. Having advised people on the formula, on the basis of a citizens advice bureaux leaflet on the subject, I am aware that it is complex. The person I advised managed to secure a reduction. Therefore, free advice is available from citizens advice bureaux and other agencies—you said that you are a leasehold adviser—which I am sure is appreciated. Therefore I do not accept that, in every instance, people will have to employ professional surveyors, or other professionals, in order to receive advice. This is often the case in conveyancing and land law. It is possible, particularly given the land registration system, for people to do their own conveyancing; I have done so in the past.

Mae’n bwynt dilys bod lesddeiliaid, os ydynt yn mynd i dribiwnlys, yn gorfod dadlau eu hachos. Er bod hawliau gan lesddeiliaid, rhaid iddynt hefyd gydnabod cyfraith tir. Ni allwn ddadwneud rhyw 300 mlynedd o gyfraith tir a dweud, i bob pwrpas, ein bod yn bwriadu dileu rhydd-ddaliadau. Mae gan rydd-ddeiliaid hawliau hefyd, ond, os ânt i dribiwnlys, bydd yn rhaid iddynt ddadlau eu hachos. A minnau wedi cynghori pobl ar y fformiwla, ar sail taflen y canolfannau cynghori ar y pwnc, yr wyf yn ymwybodol bod hyn yn gymhleth. Llwyddodd y sawl a gynghorais i i sicrhau gostyngiad. Felly, mae cyngor ar gael am ddim gan y canolfannau cynghori ac asiantaethau eraill—dywedasoch eich bod yn ymgynghorydd ar brydles—ac yr wyf yn siŵr y gwerthfawrogir hynny. Felly nid wyf yn derbyn y bydd pobl, ym mhob achos, yn gorfod cyflogi tirfesuryddion proffesiynol, neu weithwyr proffesiynol eraill, er mwyn cael cyngor. Mae hyn yn digwydd yn aml mewn trawsgludo a chyfraith tir. Mae’n bosibl, yn enwedig oherwydd y system cofrestru tir, i bobl wneud eu gwaith trawsgludo eu hunain; fe wneuthum i hynny yn y gorffennol.

Owen John Thomas a gododd—

Owen John Thomas rose—

Peter Black spoken in English p. 110

Peter Black siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 110

I do not think that this should turn into a dialogue.

Nid wyf yn credu y dylai hyn droi’n ddeialog.

John Marek The Deputy Presiding Officer spoken in English p. 110

John Marek Y Dirprwy Lywydd siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 110

Order. You only have one minute left.

Trefn. Nid oes gennych ond un funud ar ôl.

Peter Black spoken in English p. 110

Peter Black siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 110

Changes to land law in recent years have favoured people’s rights and made it easier for them to deal with this area without using professionals. Land registration has undergone major changes and now greatly benefits people who want to buy their own homes because it means that they can dispense with a number of professionals.

Mae newidiadau i gyfraith tir yn y blynyddoedd diwethaf hyn wedi hyrwyddo hawliau pobl a’i gwneud yn haws iddynt ymwneud â’r maes hwn heb ddefnyddio gweithwyr proffesiynol. Bu newidiadau mawr mewn cofrestru tir ac mae o gymorth mawr bellach i rai sydd am brynu eu cartrefi eu hunain gan ei bod yn golygu y gallant hepgor nifer o weithwyr proffesiynol.

To conclude, I turn to freehold valuation and how it is determined. This is a complex issue and has been the subject of a great deal of Government thought and debate. Many people would like to see a more formulaic approach to valuation. However, the Government has decided that it is only right for freeholders to receive fair compensation for the loss of freehold interest, and it does not want to interfere with the long-established rights of leaseholders of lower-value houses. We must recognise that this is not a matter for the National Assembly. We can put views across—

I derfynu, trof at brisio rhydd-ddaliadau a sut y caiff ei bennu. Mater cymhleth yw hwn a bu llawer o feddwl a thrafod arno gan Lywodraeth. Carai llawer o bobl weld dull mwy fformiwläig o brisio. Fodd bynnag, mae’r Llywodraeth wedi penderfynu nad yw ond yn iawn i rydd-ddeiliaid gael iawndal teg am golli buddiant rhydd-ddaliadol, ac nid yw’n dymuno ymyrryd â hawliau hirsefydlog lesddeiliaid mewn tai sydd o lai o werth. Rhaid inni gydnabod nad yw hyn yn fater i’r Cynulliad Cenedlaethol. Gallwn gyfleu ein barn—

John Marek The Deputy Presiding Officer spoken in English p. 111

John Marek Y Dirprwy Lywydd siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 111

Order. Your time has come to an end.

Trefn. Mae’ch amser ar ben.

Peter Black spoken in English p. 111

Peter Black siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 111

I have one sentence left.

Mae gennyf un frawddeg ar ôl.

John Marek The Deputy Presiding Officer spoken in English p. 111

John Marek Y Dirprwy Lywydd siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 111

I am sorry, your 15 minutes have passed. That brings today’s proceedings to a close.

Y mae’n ddrwg gennyf, y mae eich 15 munud ar ben. Daw hynny â thrafodion heddiw i ben.

Daeth y cyfarfod i ben am 12.46 p.m.

The session ended at 12.46 p.m.