Cynulliad Cenedlaethol CymruNational Assembly for Wales · Cyfarfod llawnPlenary sitting
Dydd Mawrth 22 Hydref 2002
Tuesday 22 October 2002
CynnwysContents
- 3Ethol i’r Pwyllgor Datblygu EconomaiddElection to the Economic Development Committee 1 bleidlais1 vote
- 3Cwestiynau i Brif Weinidog CymruQuestions to the First Minister
- 4Uwch-gynhadledd JohannesburgJohannesburg Summit
- 5Recriwtio NyrsysRecruitment of Nurses
- 8Gostwng Troseddu yng Nghymru WledigCutting Crime in Rural Wales
- 10Gofal CymdeithasolSocial Care
- 11Allied Steel and Wire
- 14MewnfuddsoddiInward Investment
- 16Swyddfeydd Post GwledigRural Post Offices
- 19Troseddu sy’n Gysylltiedig â ChyffuriauDrug-related Crime
- 21Statws Ffug HunangyflogedigBogus Self-employment Status
- 22Gwaith LG Philips DisplaysLG Philips Displays Plant
- 24Datganiad ar Bolisi ChwaraeStatement on Play Policy
- 33Datganiad BusnesBusiness Statement 1 bleidlais1 vote
- 36Pwyntiau o DrefnPoints of Order
- 41Cymeradwyo Rheoliadau Tribiwnlys Anghenion Addysgol Arbennig (Diwygio) 2002Approval of Special Educational Needs Tribunal (Amendment) Regulations 2002 1 bleidlais1 vote
- 46Cyllid Llywodraeth Leol (Cymru) Adroddiad Grant Arbennig (Rhif 10) (Cymru) 2002Approval of the Local Government Finance (Wales) Special Grant Report (No. 10) Wales 2002 1 bleidlais1 vote
- 57Adroddiad y Pwyllgor Llywodraeth Leol a Thai ar Adfywio CymunedolLocal Government and Housing Committee Report on Community Regeneration 1 bleidlais1 vote
- 74Dadl Plaid Leiafrifol (Plaid Cymru)Minority Party Debate (Plaid Cymru) 2 o bleidleisiau2 votes
- 74Economi CymruThe Welsh Economy 2 o bleidleisiau2 votes
PleidleisiauVotes
TrafodionProceedings
Cyfarfu’r Cynulliad am 2 p.m. gyda’r Llywydd yn y Gadair.
The Assembly met at 2 p.m. with the Presiding Officer in the Chair.
Ethol i’r Pwyllgor Datblygu Economaidd
Election to the Economic Development Committee
Carwyn Jones Y Trefnydd siaradwyd yn Gymraeg t. 3
Carwyn Jones The Business Minister spoken in Welsh p. 3
Cynigiaf fod
I propose that
Cynnig NDM1175 Carwyn Jones t. 3
Motion NDM1175 Carwyn Jones p. 3
DerbyniwydAdopted O blaidFor 32 YmatalAbstain 0 Yn erbynAgainst 0
Derbyniwyd y cynnig.
Motion carried.
Sut y pleidleisiodd yr AelodauHow Members voted
O blaidFor (32)
- Lorraine Barrett
- Mick Bates
- Peter Black
- Nick Bourne
- Eleanor Burnham
- Rosemary Butler
- Cynog Dafis
- Glyn Davies
- Janet Davies
- Jocelyn Davies
- Delyth Evans
- William Graham
- Janice Gregory
- John Griffiths
- Christine Gwyther
- Alison Halford
- Brian Hancock
- Carwyn Jones
- David Ian Jones
- Elin Jones
- Helen Mary Jones
- Ieuan Wyn Jones
- David Lloyd
- Val Lloyd
- Peter Law
- David Melding
- Tom Middlehurst
- Jonathan Morgan
- Alun Pugh
- Rhodri Glyn Thomas
- Dafydd Wigley
- Kirsty Williams
Cwestiynau i Brif Weinidog Cymru
Questions to the First Minister
Dafydd Elis-Thomas Y Llywydd siaradwyd yn Gymraeg t. 3
Dafydd Elis-Thomas The Presiding Officer spoken in Welsh p. 3
Ysgrifennodd y Prif Weinidog ataf yn gofyn imi gytuno i’r Trefnydd ateb cwestiynau ar ei ran yn ei absenoldeb ac yn absenoldeb y Dirprwy Brif Weinidog o’r Cyfarfod Llawn heddiw. Yr wyf wedi cytuno i hynny o dan Reol Sefydlog Rhif 6.3A, ac, felly, atebir cwestiynau i’r Prif Weinidog heddiw gan y Trefnydd.
The First Minister wrote to me seeking my agreement to the Business Minister’s answering questions on his behalf in his, and the Deputy First Minister’s, absence from Plenary today. Under Standing Order No. 6.3A, I have agreed to that request and, therefore, the First Minister’s questions will be answered today by the Business Minister.
Uwch-gynhadledd Johannesburg
Johannesburg Summit
Will the First Minister please give an update on his visit to the Johannesburg summit? (OAQ19391)
A wnaiff y Prif Weinidog roi hanes ei ymweliad ag uwch-gynhadledd Johannesburg? (OAQ19391)
Will the First Minister make a statement on his visit to the world summit on sustainable development in Johannesburg? (OAQ19385)
A wnaiff y Prif Weinidog ddatganiad ar ei ymweliad â’r uwch-gynhadledd ar ddatblygu cynaliadwy yn Johannesburg? (OAQ19385)
Carwyn Jones The Business Minister spoken in English p. 4
Carwyn Jones Y Trefnydd siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 4
The First Minister will make a full statement on his visit to the world summit on sustainable development tomorrow to illustrate its success to the Assembly and to the people of Wales.
Bydd Prif Weinidog Cymru’n gwneud datganiad llawn yfory ar ei ymweliad ag uwchgynhadledd y byd ar ddatblygu cynaliadwy i egluro’i llwyddiant i’r Cynulliad ac i bobl Cymru.
Will you join me in welcoming the first tranche of approvals of INTERREG funding, including an interesting project that shows a degree of Welsh lateral thinking, as it uses Irish ferries to monitor water quality in the Irish sea? Hopefully this project will help to improve the water quality because, as we know, it is an extremely polluted seaway. Can you tell me how the Government will use its new pivotal role in European sustainable development matters to disseminate this sort of good practice across Europe and beyond?
A wnewch chi ymuno â mi i groesawu’r set gyntaf o gymeradwyaethau o arian INTERREG, gan gynnwys prosiect diddorol sy’n amlygu rhywfaint o feddwl ochrol Cymreig, gan ei fod yn defnyddio llongau fferi Gwyddelig i fonitro ansawdd y dŵr ym môr Iwerddon? Gobeithio y bydd y prosiect hwn yn helpu i wella ansawdd y dŵr gan ei bod, fel y gwyddom, yn forffordd lygredig iawn. A allwch ddweud wrthyf sut y bydd y Llywodraeth yn defnyddio’i rôl ganolog newydd mewn materion datblygu cynaliadwy Ewropeaidd i ledaenu arferion da o’r fath ledled Ewrop a’r tu hwnt?
I appreciate the importance of Pembroke Dock and the jobs provided to your constituency by the ferry service that runs from there to Rosslaire. INTERREG is an exceptionally important fund that is available for communities such as Carmarthen West and South Pembrokeshire, and you have often spoken of its success. On the dissemination of the information gathered at Johannesburg, the First Minister will address a conference in Swansea in December, where he will convey the outcome of the summit. We must then ensure that the good practice operating in Wales, which was recognised by many of the participants in Johannesburg—and by the state of Western Australia in particular—is disseminated across the world.
Gwerthfawrogaf bwysigrwydd Doc Penfro a’r swyddi a grëwyd yn eich etholaeth gan y llongau fferi sy’n hwylio oddi yno i Rosslaire. Mae INTERREG yn gronfa eithriadol o bwysig sydd ar gael i gymunedau fel Gorllewin Caerfyrddin a De Sir Benfro, ac yr ydych wedi sôn am ei llwyddiant yn aml. Ynghylch lledaenu’r wybodaeth a gasglwyd yn Johannesburg, bydd Prif Weinidog Cymru’n annerch cynhadledd yn Abertawe ym mis Rhagfyr, lle y bydd yn sôn am ganlyniad yr uwchgynhadledd. Rhaid inni sicrhau wedyn fod yr arferion da sydd ar waith yng Nghymru, a gydnabuwyd gan lawer o’r cynadleddwyr yn Johannesburg—a chan dalaith Gorllewin Awstralia’n benodol—yn cael eu lledaenu ar draws y byd.
I am sure that the First Minister has briefed you on the Johannesburg summit. Will you therefore outline the Welsh Assembly Government’s actions in meeting the additional sustainable development indicators?
Yr wyf yn siŵr bod Prif Weinidog Cymru wedi’ch briffio ar uwchgynhadledd Johannesburg. A wnewch chi felly ddisgrifio’r camau a gymerir gan Lywodraeth Cynulliad Cymru o ran bodloni’r dangosyddion ychwanegol sy’n ymwneud â datblygu cynaliadwy?
As the First Minister attended the conference, it is right for him to explain that in his statement tomorrow. Your question is interesting and relevant, but it would be inappropriate for me to answer it before the First Minister makes his statement.
Gan mai’r Prif Weinidog a aeth i’r gynhadledd, mae’n iawn iddo ef egluro hynny yn ei ddatganiad yfory. Mae’ch cwestiwn yn ddiddorol ac yn berthnasol, ond byddai’n amhriodol imi ei ateb cyn i’r Prif Weinidog wneud ei ddatganiad.
Dafydd Elis-Thomas The Presiding Officer spoken in English p. 5
Dafydd Elis-Thomas Y Llywydd siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 5
In view of that thoughtful reply, I do not propose to call further supplementary questions on this subject.
Yng ngolwg yr ateb ystyriol hwnnw, nid wyf yn bwriadu caniatáu cwestiynau atodol pellach ar y pwnc hwn.
Recriwtio Nyrsys
Recruitment of Nurses
Will the First Minister make a statement on the recruitment of nurses by the partnership Government? (OAQ19389)
A wnaiff y Prif Weinidog ddatganiad ar bolisi’r Llywodraeth bartneriaeth ar recriwtio nyrsys? (OAQ19389)
The Assembly Government is committed to substantially increasing the numbers of nurses. By 2010, we aim to recruit an additional 6,000—an increase of 24 per cent. We will achieve this by continuing to increase the number of trainees, by developing the return-to-practice scheme, by recruiting from overseas and by raising NHS Wales’s profile as an employer.
Mae Llywodraeth y Cynulliad wedi ymrwymo i gynyddu nifer y nyrsys yn sylweddol. Erbyn 2010, ein nod yw recriwtio 6,000 yn ychwanegol— cynnydd o 24 y cant. Cyflawnwn hyn drwy barhau i gynyddu nifer y rhai dan hyfforddiant, drwy ddatblygu’r cynllun dychwelyd-i-ymarfer, drwy recriwtio o dramor a thrwy hybu proffil GIG Cymru fel cyflogwr.
I am sure that we all welcome the recruitment of more nurses. However, the task now is to retain those nurses. To do that, we must implement ‘Agenda for Change’. What discussions has this Government had with the UK Government to ensure sufficient funding to implement that agenda? Its implementation costs will be higher in Wales.
Yr wyf yn siŵr bod pawb ohonom yn croesawu recriwtio rhagor o nyrsys. Fodd bynnag, y dasg yn awr yw cadw’r nyrsys hynny. I wneud hynny, rhaid inni roi ‘Agenda ar gyfer Newid’ ar waith. Pa drafodaethau a gafodd y Llywodraeth hon â Llywodraeth y DU i sicrhau digon o gyllid i roi’r agenda honno ar waith? Bydd y costau gweithredu yn uwch yng Nghymru.
There are specific difficulties in Wales, for example, the harmonisation of pay and conditions in the Powys Health Care NHS Trust. Such matters are discussed by Jane Hutt, the Minister for Health and Social Services, and the appropriate Minister in London. However, all trusts have developed recruitment and retention strategies that will address local issues and issues specific to the shortages in some professions. You are right that training nurses and retaining them are separate parts of the same equation. That is why it is so important to ensure that those who have left nursing are able to return.
Mae anawsterau penodol yng Nghymru, er enghraifft, cysoni tâl ac amodau yn Ymddiriedolaeth GIG Gofal Iechyd Powys. Trafodir materion o’r fath gan Jane Hutt, y Gweinidog dros Iechyd a Gwasanaethau Cymdeithasol, a’r Gweinidog priodol yn Llundain. Fodd bynnag, mae’r holl ymddiriedolaethau wedi datblygu strategaethau recriwtio a chadw a fydd yn ymdrin â materion lleol a materion sy’n ymwneud yn benodol â’r prinder mewn rhai proffesiynau. Yr ydych yn iawn wrth ddweud bod hyfforddi a chadw nyrsys yn wahanol rannau o’r un hafaliad. Dyna pam y mae mor bwysig sicrhau bod y rhai a adawodd nyrsio’n gallu dychwelyd.
The number of nurses of working age who do not nurse is greater than the number of those that do. That highlights the problem of keeping people in the profession or allowing them to return after an absence for family responsibilities, or after a career break and so on. To retain nurses, we must invest in the front-line services and ensure that they can have a rewarding career in the NHS and that bureaucracy does not weigh them down.
Mae mwy o nyrsys o oedran gweithio nad ydynt yn nyrsio nag sydd o rai sydd yn nyrsio. Mae hynny’n tynnu sylw at yr anhawster o gadw pobl yn y proffesiwn hwnnw neu ganiatáu iddynt ddychwelyd ar ôl cyfnod yn ymgymryd â chyfrifoldebau teuluol, neu ar ôl saib gyrfa ac yn y blaen. Er mwyn cadw nyrsys, rhaid inni fuddsoddi yn y gwasanaethau rheng flaen a sicrhau y gallant gael gyrfa werth chweil yn y GIG gan ofalu nad yw biwrocratiaeth yn eu llethu.
The successful return-to-practice scheme has allowed about 300 qualified nurses to return to the NHS by completing their courses in the past two years. That scheme must be extended. There are many reasons why a person who has trained in a particular profession does not return to it or leaves it for some time. This is one way of addressing that issue.
Mae’r cynllun dychwelyd-i-ymarfer wedi bod yn llwyddiannus a chaniataodd i tua 300 o nyrsys cymwys ddychwelyd i’r GIG drwy gwblhau eu cyrsiau yn y ddwy flynedd diwethaf. Rhaid ymestyn y cynllun hwnnw. Mae llawer o resymau pam nad yw rhywun a hyfforddwyd i ymgymryd â phroffesiwn penodol yn dychwelyd iddo neu’n ei adael am gryn amser. Dyma un ffordd o ymdrin â’r mater hwnnw.
The need to train, recruit and retain a greater number of nurses is obvious, and it must have the highest priority. However, before we reach that goal, do you agree that interim measures such as the recruitment of nurses from other countries are necessary? We should recognise their contribution. In the Royal Gwent Hospital, for example, nurses from the Philippines do a great job, and are popular with other staff and patients.
Mae’n amlwg bod rhaid inni hyfforddi, recriwtio a chadw rhagor o nyrsys, a rhaid rhoi’r flaenoriaeth uchaf i hynny. Fodd bynnag, cyn inni gyrraedd y nod honno, a ydych yn cytuno bod angen mesurau dros dro fel recriwtio nyrsys o wledydd eraill? Dylem gydnabod eu cyfraniad. Yn Ysbyty Brenhinol Gwent, er enghraifft, mae nyrsys o Ynysoedd y Philipinos yn gwneud gwaith rhagorol, ac maent yn boblogaidd ymysg y staff eraill a’r cleifion.
Good and competent people are welcome, wherever they come from. About 600 well-qualified nurses have been recruited from the Philippines, and work in NHS trusts in Wales at the moment, and you noted the cheery effect that they have on patients in Gwent.
Mae pobl dda a galluog i’w croesawu, o ble bynnag y deuant. Mae tua 600 o nyrsys â chymwysterau da wedi’u recriwtio o Ynysoedd y Philipinos, ac maent yn gweithio mewn ymddiriedolaethau GIG yng Nghymru ar hyn o bryd, a nodasoch eu bod yn sirioli cleifion yng Ngwent.
Ieuan Wyn Jones Arweinydd yr Wrthblaid siaradwyd yn Gymraeg t. 7
Ieuan Wyn Jones The Leader of the Opposition spoken in Welsh p. 7
Sut y cyrhaeddwch eich targed o 6,000 o nyrsys ychwanegol erbyn 2010 o ystyried y ffigwr sydd ger eich bron ar hyn o bryd? Chwe mis yn ôl, yr oedd 794 o swyddi nyrsio gwag; heddiw, mae 929 o swyddi nyrsio gwag, sef cynnydd o dros 10 y cant am i nyrsys adael y proffesiwn yn y cyfamser. Sut y sicrhewch y bydd amodau gwaith nyrsys yn gwella er mwyn ichi gyrraedd eich targed eich hun?
How will you reach your target of 6,000 extra nurses by 2010 given the figure currently before you? Six months ago, there were 794 vacant nursing posts; today, there are 929 vacant nursing posts, which is an increase of over 10 per cent due to nurses leaving the profession in the intervening period. How will you ensure that nurses’ working conditions improve to enable you to reach your own target?
Rhaid cofio mai targed ar gyfer 2010 yw hwn, nid 2002. Mae angen amser i’w gyrraedd, ond mae gennym wyth mlynedd. Mae’n darged y mae Llywodraeth y Cynulliad am ei gyrraedd. Mae sawl ymdrech ar y gweill ar hyn o bryd, fel y soniais gynnau, sef hyfforddiant, y cynllun dychwelyd-i-ymarfer, chwilio am nyrsys o dramor a all weithio yng Nghymru a hefyd sicrhau y gwelir y gwasanaeth iechyd yng Nghymru fel lle da i weithio ynddo. Fodd bynnag, fel y dywed y ddihareb, ‘nid da lle gellir gwell’. Efallai fod hynny’n addas ar gyfer y gwasanaeth iechyd ac mae’n rhaid inni ddatblygu gan gofio hynny dros y flwyddyn nesaf. Mae un peth yn sicr, sef ein bod yn symud i’r cyfeiriad iawn yn awr ac yr ydym yn hyderus y cyrhaeddir y targed o fewn yr wyth mlynedd.
You must remember that the target is for 2010, not 2002. It will take time to achieve it, but we have eight years. It is a target that the Assembly Government wants to reach. Several measures are in place, as I mentioned earlier, namely training, the return-to-practice scheme, the search for foreign nurses who could work in Wales and also ensuring that the health service in Wales is seen as a good place to work. However, as the Welsh proverb goes, nid da lle gellir gwell—there is always room for improvement. Perhaps that is an appropriate motto for the health service and we must develop with that in mind over the coming year. One thing is certain: we are moving in the right direction and we are confident that the target will be met within the eight years.
Mae gennych broblem enfawr, ac mae’n flin gennyf nad ydych yn cydnabod y broblem honno. Onid yw’n sgandal na fydd un o bob tri o nyrsys sy’n ymgymhwyso fyth yn gweithio i’r gwasanaeth iechyd? Mae Mick Bates a Geraint yn gywir: yr ydych yn methu â chadw nyrsys unwaith y maent wedi ymgymhwyso. Pa werth sydd i ddim ond ychwanegu at y nifer o leoedd sydd i nyrsys i hyfforddi a chymhwyso? Problem enfawr y Llywodraeth yw bod amodau gwaith nyrsys yn gwbl annheg. Mae disgwyl iddynt weithio ar wardiau lle nad oes digon o staff, ac mae’r pwysau yn gwasgu ar eu morál. Dywedasoch wrthym rywfaint o’r hyn y gwnewch chi. Pryd rhowch chi drefn ar yr amodau gwaith?
You have a huge problem, and I am disappointed that you do not acknowledge that problem. Is it not a scandal that one in three nurses who qualify never work in the health service? Mick Bates and Geraint are correct: you are failing to retain nurses once they have qualified. What is the point of simply increasing the number of training places available to prospective nurses? The Government’s overwhelming problem is that nurses’ working conditions are completely unfair. They are expected to work on understaffed wards, and the pressure is crushing their morale. You told us a little of what you are doing. When will you sort out the working conditions?
Mae hynny’n digwydd ar hyn o bryd. Fel y dywedais, targed i 2010 yw hwn. Mae sawl rheswm pam nad yw pobl yn aros yn y swyddi yr hyfforddwyd hwy ar eu cyfer. Mae sawl enghraifft o swyddi eraill lle mae pobl yn hyfforddi ond eto nid ydynt yn aros yn y swydd. Mae sawl ffactor i hyn. Mae nyrsys wedi gadael oherwydd amryw o resymau. Yr ydym ar hyn o bryd yn ceisio sicrhau gwelliannau yn y gwasanaeth iechyd. Bu gwelliannau yn barod, ac o dan y Llywodraeth hon yn unig y bydd y sefyllfa’n gwella yn y dyfodol.
That is happening at the moment. As I said, this is the target for 2010. There are many reasons why people do not remain in jobs for which they have been trained. There are many examples of other professions in which people train yet do not remain in the profession. There are several factors at work here. Nurses have left for a variety of reasons. We are currently seeking improvements in the health service. We have seen some improvements already, and the situation will only improve in the future under this Government.
Gostwng Troseddu yng Nghymru Wledig
Cutting Crime in Rural Wales
Pa drafodaethau mae’r Prif Weinidog wedi’u cael gydag Ysgrifennydd Gwladol Cymru ynghylch gostwng troseddu yng Nghymru wledig? (OAQ19357)
What discussions has the First Minister had with the Secretary of State for Wales about cutting crime in rural Wales? (OAQ19357)
Mae Llywodraeth Cynulliad Cymru yn blaenoriaethu gostwng troseddu a chreu cymunedau mwy diogel ledled Cymru. Ynghylch ardaloedd gwledig, mae’n ffaith bod ofn trosedd yn wahanol i lefel real troseddu yn yr ardaloedd hynny. Nid yw hynny’n golygu nad ydym yn cymryd troseddu mewn ardaloedd gwledig o ddifrif. Mae’r heddlu a’i bartneriaid yn cymryd rhan mewn amryw o ymgyrchoedd gostwng troseddu ar hyn o bryd sy’n mynd i’r afael â phroblemau penodol cymunedau gwledig. Er bod lefel troseddu yno yn is nag mewn ardaloedd trefol, yr ydym yn cymryd y mater hwn o ddifrif.
The Welsh Assembly Government prioritises crime reduction and the creation of safer communities throughout Wales. Regarding rural areas, it is a fact that the fear of crime is disproportionate to the real level of crime in those areas. That does not mean that we do not take rural crime seriously. The police and their partners are currently participating in a variety of crime-reduction campaigns that are tackling rural communities’ specific problems. Though the level of crime there is lower than in urban areas, we take this matter seriously.
Cymeradwyaf ymdrechion Llywodraeth Prydain i ganolbwytnio adnoddau mewn ardaloedd lle mae mwy o droseddu. Mae’r ymdrechion eisoes wedi dwyn ffrwyth. A wnewch chi sicrhau, ar ran Llywodraeth Cymru, y cynhelir adnoddau i awdurdodau heddlu mewn ardal megis Dyfed-Powys dan yr amgylchiadau hyn?
I commend the efforts of the British Government to focus resources on the areas with higher rates of crime. These efforts are already achieveing success. Will you ensure, on behalf of the Government of Wales, that resources for police authorities such as Dyfed-Powys are maintained under such circumstances?
Mae hynny’n cael ei ystyried yn y ffordd y mae’r heddlu yn cael ei gyllido yng Nghymru a Lloegr, gan gynnwys Heddlu Dyfed-Powys. Mae sawl cam ymarferol wedi ei gymryd hyd yma, a chymerir sawl un eto yn y dyfodol. Er enghraifft, mae cynllun yn Nyfed-Powys lle mae tractorau ffermydd yn cael eu marcio fel y gŵyr pobl i ble yr ânt os cânt eu dwyn. Hefyd, mae cynllun arall yno, o’r enw cynllun fan bobis at ostwng nifer y troseddau yn ardal Dyfed-Powys. Er hynny, isel yw nifer y troseddau yn Nyfed-Powys, ac mae’n rhaid inni sicrhau ei fod yn aros felly.
That is considered in the way in which the police, including Dyfed-Powys Police, is funded in England and Wales. Many practical steps have been taken thus far, and many more will be taken in the future. For example, there is a scheme in Dyfed-Powys whereby farm tractors are marked so that people can track them if they are stolen. Also, there is another scheme, called the bobby van scheme, aimed at reducing the number of crimes in the region. However, the crime rate in Dyfed-Powys is low, and we must ensure that it remains so.
Will not that change in priorities mean the loss of over £4.1 million in funding to Dyfed-Powys Police and £1.9 million to North Wales Police? That would have an immediate impact on the number of officers in rural areas. What is the Government doing to negotiate with its Westminster colleagues to ensure that we do not see those massive losses in funding to police forces in Wales?
Oni fydd y newid blaenoriaethau hwnnw’n golygu colli dros £4.1 miliwn o gyllid Heddlu Dyfed-Powys ac £1.9 miliwn o gyllid Heddlu Gogledd Cymru? Câi hynny effaith yn syth ar nifer y swyddogion mewn ardaloedd gwledig. Beth y mae’r Llywodraeth yn ei wneud i negodi gyda’i chymheiriaid yn San Steffan i sicrhau na welwn y colledion cyllid anferth hynny gan heddluoedd yng Nghymru?
I do not accept that there are major losses in funding. The UK Government’s police funding formula recognises—as I mentioned to Delyth—the sparsity factor in policing rural areas. This year, Welsh police forces will benefit from this factor. For 2002-03, Dyfed-Powys will receive an extra £2.588 million, north Wales will receive £1.534 million and Gwent will receive £204,000 extra for policing those areas due to the application of the sparsity factor. There will also be 422 additional police officers for Wales. The reality of the situation is that the number of police officers and the amount of police funding is increasing.
Nid wyf yn derbyn bod colledion cyllid mawr. Mae fformiwla ariannu heddluoedd Llywodraeth y DU yn cydnabod—fel y dywedais wrth Delyth—teneurwydd poblogaeth wrth blismona ardaloedd gwledig. Eleni, bydd heddluoedd Cymru’n elwa o’r ffactor hwnnw. Ar gyfer 2002-03, bydd Dyfed-Powys yn derbyn £2.588 miliwn yn ychwanegol, bydd y Gogledd yn derbyn £1.534 miliwn a bydd Gwent yn derbyn £204,000 yn ychwanegol i blismona’r ardaloedd hynny oherwydd cymhwyso’r ffactor teneurwydd poblogaeth. Bydd 422 o heddweision ychwanegol i Gymru hefyd. Y gwir amdani yw bod nifer yr heddweision a maint cyllid yr heddlu’n cynyddu.
Gofal Cymdeithasol
Social Care
Will the First Minister make a statement on the provision of social care for young children and the elderly in Wales? (OAQ19353)
A wnaiff y Prif Weinidog ddatganiad ar y gofal cymdeithasol a ddarperir ar gyfer plant ifanc a’r henoed yng Nghymru? (OAQ19353)
The Welsh Assembly Government’s policy is that the provision of social care for young children, the elderly and other vulnerable people should be of high quality, be responsive, represent best value for money, and be subject to robust and independent inspection and review procedures.
Polisi Llywodraeth Cynulliad Cymru yw y dylai’r ddarpariaeth o ofal cymdeithasol ar gyfer plant ifanc, yr henoed a phobl eraill sy’n agored i niwed fod o ansawdd da, yn ymatebol, y dylai roi’r gwerth gorau am arian, ac y dylai fod yn ddarostyngedig i weithdrefnau arolygu ac adolygu cadarn ac annibynnol.
One of the outcomes of that robust and independent review of procedures was the report into Cardiff County Council’s handling of its social services department. Sadly, the report indicates that the council has let down many people, from its youngest to its most elderly citizens. In the light of the seriousness and importance of this report, would it not be wise for the Assembly to debate the report and deliberate on the future of such inspections? The Assembly must be allowed to scrutinise such reports.
Un o ganlyniadau’r adolygiad cadarn ac annibynnol o weithdrefnau oedd yr adroddiad ar ddull Cyngor Sir Caerdydd o drafod ei adran gwasanaethau cymdeithasol. Gwaetha’r modd, mae’r adroddiad yn dangos bod y cyngor wedi siomi llawer o bobl, o’i ddinasyddion ieuengaf i’w rai hynaf. O ganlyniad i ddifrifoldeb a phwysigrwydd yr adroddiad hwn, oni fyddai’n ddoeth i’r Cynulliad drafod yr adroddiad ac ystyried dyfodol arolygiadau o’r fath? Rhaid caniatáu i’r Cynulliad archwilio adroddiadau o’r fath.
The purpose of the review of procedure is to identify problems and find ways of rectifying them. Cardiff council’s social services department should not be hammered but helped. That is what my colleague, Jane Hutt, is doing. The council will need to provide social services in future and, therefore, it is right that we should help it run those services efficiently for the benefit of users, rather than wield a big stick and say that we will take over its social services department. Cardiff council should be helped back onto its feet so that it can run a top-class social services department in future. That is our aim.
Pwrpas yr adolygiad o weithdrefnau yw canfod problemau a darganfod dulliau o’u cywiro. Nid lladd ar adran gwasanaethau cymdeithasol cyngor Caerdydd y dylid ei wneud ond ei helpu. Dyna y mae fy nghyd-Aelod, Jane Hutt, yn ei wneud. Bydd angen i’r cyngor ddarparu gwasanaethau cymdeithasol yn y dyfodol ac, felly, mae’n briodol inni ei helpu i redeg y gwasanaethau hynny’n effeithlon er budd y defnyddwyr, yn hytrach na chwifio pastwn mawr a dweud y gwnawn gymryd ei adran gwasanaethau cymdeithasol drosodd. Dylid helpu cyngor Caerdydd i godi ar ei draed fel y gall redeg adran gwasanaethau cymdeithasol o’r radd flaenaf yn y dyfodol. Dyna ein bwriad.
Minister, such problems are not confined to Cardiff. The second joint social services review was published last week. Are you concerned by that report’s conclusion that most councils are struggling to deliver consistently good services, which means that, at worse, some children are at serious risk and that, at best, some of their carers are in severe need? How will the Welsh Assembly Government work with local authorities to ensure that change happens at the highest level and that those who are responsible for social services in local authorities show a greater degree of urgency in tackling some of these problems?
Weinidog, nid yng Nghaerdydd yn unig y ceir problemau o’r fath. Cyhoeddwyd yr ail adolygiad ar y cyd o wasanaethau cymdeithasol yr wythnos diwethaf. A yw casgliad yr adroddiad hwnnw’n peri pryder i chi, sef bod y rhan fwyaf o gynghorau’n ei chael yn anodd darparu gwasanaethau sy’n gyson dda, sy’n golygu, ar y gwaethaf, fod rhai plant mewn perygl difrifol ac, ar y gorau, fod rhai o’u gofalwyr mewn dygn angen? Sut y gwnaiff Llywodraeth Cynulliad Cymru weithio gyda’r awdurdodau lleol i sicrhau bod newid yn digwydd ar y lefel uchaf a bod y rhai sy’n gyfrifol am wasanaethau cymdeithasol mewn awdurdodau lleol yn amlygu mwy o frys wrth fynd i’r afael â rhai o’r problemau hyn?
So far, only a minority of local authorities have been assessed as delivering poor services. Several local authorities are delivering acceptable services, although they could be improved. It is important that the Assembly Government helps those authorities to sort out their problems. We cannot take over every social services department in Wales. It is important that we provide support and not ride rough shod over social services departments.
Hyd yn hyn, dim ond lleiafrif o awdurdodau lleol yr aseswyd eu bod yn darparu gwasanaethau gwael. Mae sawl awdurdod lleol yn darparu gwasanaethau derbyniol, er y gellid eu gwella. Mae’n bwysig bod Llywodraeth Cynulliad Cymru’n helpu’r awdurdodau hynny i ddatrys eu problemau. Ni allwn gymryd drosodd bob adran gwasanaethau cymdeithasol yng Nghymru. Mae’n bwysig inni ddarparu cymorth a pheidio â sathru ar adrannau gwasanaethau cymdeithasol.
Will you clarify the situation concerning the increase of funding for the long-term care of the elderly, which was announced by Edwina Hart last week? Will you ensure that this money is used to pay fees, as this matter is causing great distress for carers who work in homes for the elderly?
A wnewch egluro’r sefyllfa ynghylch y cynnydd yn y cyllid ar gyfer gofal tymor hir am yr henoed, a gyhoeddwyd gan Edwina Hart yr wythnos diwethaf? A wnewch sicrhau y caiff yr arian hwn ei ddefnyddio i dalu ffïoedd, gan fod y mater hwn yn peri llawer o ofid i ofalwyr sy’n gweithio mewn cartrefi i’r henoed?
Ministers will announce in due course how budgets allocated to their portfolios will be spent. As regards fees, many factors concerning the care home sector are being addressed through the Wales care home strategy.
Bydd Gweinidogion yn cyhoeddi gyda hyn sut y bydd y cyllidebau a ddyrannwyd i’w portffolios yn cael eu gwario. Ynghylch ffïoedd, mae llawer o’r ffactorau sy’n ymwneud â’r sector cartrefi gofal yn cael sylw drwy strategaeth cartrefi gofal Cymru.
Allied Steel and Wire
Has the First Minister met with the Secretary of State to discuss the problems faced by ex-employees of Allied Steel and Wire? (OAQ19358)
A yw’r Prif Weinidog wedi cyfarfod â’r Ysgrifennydd Gwladol er mwyn trafod problemau cyn-weithwyr cwmni Allied Steel and Wire? (OAQ19358)
The First Minister has regular meetings with the Secretary of State. He has discussed the ASW situation with him many times.
Mae Prif Weinidog Cymru’n cwrdd yn rheolaidd â’r Ysgrifennydd Gwladol. Mae wedi trafod sefyllfa ASW gydg ef lawer gwaith.
I am concerned at how long it is taking to wind up the ASW pension scheme. Given that the scheme closed on 30 June and the receivers’ independent trustees were appointed in mid July, why did the Inland Revenue National Insurance Contributions Office not give out any information until 9 October? The ex-workers might not have been told even then, had I not done some prodding. They are no closer to knowing their gross pension entitlement now than they were three months ago. Pinsents, the independent trustee, is being paid £325 an hour from the pension fund for the time it spends on this job. It is therefore in no hurry to complete it. Will you set up an independent taskforce, with all due haste, to accelerate the winding-up of the process and so protect the pension fund entitlement of the former ASW staff?
Yr wyf yn bryderus ynghylch yr amser a gymerir i ddirwyn cynllun pensiwn ASW i ben. O wybod bod y cynllun wedi gorffen ar 30 Mehefin a bod ymddiriedolwyr annibynnol y derbynwyr wedi’u penodi ganol Gorffennaf, pam na roddodd Swyddfa Cyfraniadau Yswiriant Gwladol Cyllid y Wlad unrhyw wybodaeth tan 9 Hydref? Mae’n bosibl na fuasai’r cyn-weithwyr wedi cael gwybod bryd hynny hyd yn oed, pe na fuaswn wedi procio ychydig. Nid ydynt ddim agosach at wybod beth yw eu hawl pensiwn crynswth yn awr nag yr oeddent dri mis yn ôl. Telir £325 yr awr i Pinsents, yr ymddiriedolwr annibynnol, o’r gronfa bensiwn am yr amser y mae’n ei dreulio ar y gwaith hwn. Felly nid yw ar frys i’w gwblhau. A wnewch sefydlu tasglu annibynnol, gyda phob brys dyladwy, i gyflymu’r gwaith o ddirwyn y broses i ben a thrwy hynny ddiogelu’r arian y mae gan gyn staff ASW hawl i’w dderbyn o’r gronfa bensiwn?
Pensions are not a devolved matter. The functions of the Pensions Act 1995, which governs pensions, are not devolved. However, the Minister for Economic Development and the First Minister wrote to Andrew Smith, the Secretary of State for Work and Pensions, to bring the plight of ASW workers to his attention. How the situation develops is a matter for the pension scheme trustees. We hope that ASW pensioners get their fair return and all those who are involved in this issue are working to achieve that.
Nid yw pensiynau’n fater a ddatganolwyd. Nid yw swyddogaethau’r Ddeddf Pensiynau 1995, sy’n llywodraethu pensiynau, wedi’u datganoli. Er hynny, ysgrifennodd y Gweinidog dros Ddatblygu Economaidd a Phrif Weinidog Cymru at Andrew Smith, yr Ysgrifennydd Gwladol dros Waith a Phensiynau, i ddod â thrafferthion gweithwyr ASW i’w sylw. Mater i ymddiriedolwyr y cynllun pensiwn yw’r modd y bydd y sefyllfa hon yn datblygu. Gobeithiwn y bydd pensiynwyr ASW yn cael yr hyn sy’n deg ac mae pawb sy’n gysylltiedig â’r mater hwn yn gweithio i sicrhau hynny.
Nick Bourne The Leader of the Welsh Conservatives spoken in English p. 12
Nick Bourne Arweinydd Ceidwadwyr Cymru siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 12
Since the return of the Assembly from recess, Assembly Members have been treated high-handedly and contemptuously by your Government. We have been denied a proper statement on Cardiff’s social services department. That means a statement or debate, not the taking over of Cardiff’s social services department. That seems to be your prejudging of the issue but we do not want that: we want a debate. Also, on the issue of ASW pensions, I have pressed the First Minister repeatedly for a statement. We have not had a statement or debate on that important job situation in the capital city; jobs are being lost. We can give a view on pensions to Westminster. It does not matter that it is not a devolved matter; we can express views. The same is true of a host of issues; the Minister for Economic Development is like the Government’s Marie Celeste, he has not been seen at either of those, nor at Fishguard, where jobs were lost at Dewhirst. Is it not time that you got your act together and the Cabinet made statements on the issues that matter to people, and not footling statements on issues that do not matter?
Ers i’r Cynulliad ddychwelyd ar ôl y toriad, mae Aelodau’r Cynulliad wedi’u trin yn drahaus ac yn ddirmygus gan eich Llywodraeth. Gwrthodwyd datganiad priodol i ni ar adran gwasanaethau cymdeithasol Caerdydd. Mae hynny’n golygu datganiad neu ddadl, nid cymryd adran gwasanaethau cymdeithasol Caerdydd drosodd. Mae hynny’n ymddangos fel petaech yn rhagfarnu’r mater ond nid ydym am wneud hynny: yr ydym am gael dadl. Hefyd, ar fater pensiynau ASW, yr wyf wedi pwyso ar Brif Weinidog Cymru dro ar ôl tro am ddatganiad. Ni chawsom ddatganiad neu ddadl ar y sefyllfa bwysig honno o ran swyddi yn y brifddinas; mae swyddi’n cael eu colli. Gallwn roi ein barn ar bensiynau i San Steffan. Nid yw o bwys nad ydyw’n fater a ddatganolwyd; gallwn fynegi barn. Mae’r un peth yn wir am lu o faterion; mae’r Gweinidog dros Ddatblygu Economaidd yn debyg i Marie Celeste y Llywodraeth, nis gwelwyd yn yr un o’r rheini, nac yn Abergwaun, lle y collwyd swyddi yn Dewhirst. Onid yw’n bryd ichi gael trefn ar eich pethau ac i’r Cabinet wneud datganiadau ar y materion sydd o bwys i bobl, ac nid datganiadau pitw ar faterion nad ydynt o bwys?
I can understand Members’ desire to find out what is happening with ASW. That is natural. However, the reality is that the First Minister and the Minister for Economic Development have attended meetings of ASW workers and brokered meetings with the ASW trade unions and the receivers. However, matters at ASW are delicately poised. Negotiations are taking place and it would not be right for Assembly Members, perhaps unwittingly, to jeopardise them. It would be better to see what happens before commenting further. The situation is delicate.
Gallaf ddeall awydd yr Aelodau i gael gwybod beth sy’n digwydd yn achos ASW. Mae hynny’n naturiol. Er hynny, y gwir amdani yw bod Prif Weinidog Cymru a’r Gweinidog dros Ddatblygu Economaidd wedi mynychu cyfarfodydd o weithwyr ASW ac wedi canoli mewn cyfarfodydd gydag undebau llafur ASW a’r derbynwyr. Fodd bynnag, mae’r sefyllfa ynghylch ASW yn fregus iawn. Mae negodiadau’n digwydd ac ni fyddai’n iawn i Aelodau’r Cynulliad, yn ddiarwybod efallai, eu peryglu. Gwell fyddai gweld beth fydd yn digwydd cyn gwneud sylw pellach. Mae’r sefyllfa’n fregus.
That only applies to one of the many situations that I mentioned. It is does not apply to Dewhirst, or the review of Cardiff County Council’s social services provision. It happens across the board. We have not had statements on issues that matter to people in Wales that arose during the summer. There is a host of issues—on public services, on the A-level marking fiasco, on the criminal records checks on teachers—which matter to people. That is why we are here. When can we expect statements on those issues, rather than the written statements that we are occasionally treated to, vice-regally, when the Minister for Education and Lifelong Learning deigns to issue them?
Nid yw hynny’n wir ond am un o’r nifer fawr o sefyllfaoedd a grybwyllais. Nid yw’n wir am Dewhirst, neu’r adolygiad o ddarpariaeth gwasanaethau cymdeithasol Cyngor Sir Caerdydd. Mae’n digwydd yn gyffredinol. Ni chawsom ddatganiadau ar faterion sydd o bwys i bobl yng Nghymru a gododd yn ystod yr haf. Mae llu o faterion—ar wasanaethau cyhoeddus, ar y ffiasgo marcio Safon Uwch, ar y gwiriadau ar gofnodion troseddol ar athrawon—sydd o bwys i bobl. Dyna pam yr ydym yma. Pa bryd y gallwn ddisgwyl datganiadau ar y materion hynny, yn hytrach na’r datganiadau ysgrifenedig a gawn o bryd i’w gilydd, yn rhaglawol, pan yw’r Gweinidog dros Addysg a Dysgu Gydol Oes yn gweld yn dda i’w rhoi?
I notice that you had to concede part of your argument in terms of the ASW workers, knowing that the situation is delicate. You have weakened your position by talking about the A-level marking fiasco: it does not affect those students in Wales who sat Welsh Joint Education Committee examinations. Some students may have been affected if they sat examinations from English boards. I am told that there are 16 of them. The difficulties with A-levels did not exist in Wales, which is something to be proud of. We do not want to revel in the fact that others have had difficulties, but it illustrates the robust health of the Welsh education system.
Sylwaf eich bod wedi gorfod ildio rhan o’ch dadl o ran gweithwyr ASW, gan wybod bod y sefyllfa’n fregus. Yr ydych wedi gwanhau’ch safbwynt drwy sôn am y ffiasgo marcio Safon Uwch: nid yw’n effeithio ar y myfyrwyr hynny yng Nghymru a safodd arholiadau Cyd-bwyllgor Addysg Cymru. Efallai fod rhai myfyrwyr wedi’u heffeithio os gwnaethant sefyll arholiadau byrddau Lloegr. Dywedir wrthyf fod 16 ohonynt. Nid oedd yr anawsterau ynghylch arholiadau Safon Uwch yn bodoli yng Nghymru, ac mae hynny’n rhywbeth y dylid ymfalchïo ynddo. Nid ydym am ymhyfrydu yn y ffaith bod eraill wedi profi anawsterau, ond mae’n dangos mor iach yw system addysg Cymru.
Mewnfuddsoddi
Inward Investment
A wnaiff y Prif Weinidog ddatganiad ar nifer y swyddi sydd wedi’u creu gan fewnfuddsoddi ers 1999? (OAQ19384)
Will the First Minister make a statement on the number of jobs created by inward investment since 1999? (OAQ19384)
Ers 1 Gorffennaf 1999, cafwyd prosiectau mewnfuddsoddi sy’n addo 23,000 o swyddi newydd i Gymru.
Since 1 July 1999, there have been inward investment projects promising 23,000 new jobs to Wales.
Mae 54 y cant o arian cymorth dewisol rhanbarth sy’n dod o’r Cynulliad yn mynd i gwmnïau tramor. Dim ond 27 y cant sy’n mynd i gwmnïau Cymreig. A ydych yn cytuno, os ydym am sicrhau twf cynaliadwy hirdymor economi Cymru, fod rhaid inni gynyddu’r buddsoddiad hwnnw yn ein cwmnïau cynhenid?
Of the regional selective assistance funding paid by the Assembly, 54 per cent goes to overseas companies. Only 27 per cent goes to Welsh companies. Do you agree that if we are to ensure the long-term sustainable growth of the Welsh economy, we must increase that investment in our indigenous companies?
Mae’n rhaid cael cymysgedd. Yr ydym am sicrhau twf mewn cwmnïau o Gymru sy’n tyfu o fusnesau bychain i rai canolig eu maint, ac wedyn i fod yn fusnesau mawr. Mae’n rhaid inni eu helpu i wneud hynny. Er hynny, nid ydym yn osgoi unrhyw gyfle sydd ar gael i helpu cwmnïau o’r tu allan i Gymru os byddant yn creu swyddi yng Nghymru. Dyna’r pwynt pwysicaf. Rhaid sicrhau ein bod yn dwyn y maen i’r wal o ran creu swyddi yng Nghymru, a chydnabod hefyd fod rhaid inni helpu busnesau o Gymru. Mae hynny’n digwydd ar hyn o bryd ac wedi digwydd ers sefydlu’r Cynulliad.
We need a combination of both We want to ensure the growth of companies from Wales that are growing from small into medium-sized businesses, and then becoming big businesses. We must help them to do that. However, we do not pass up any opportunity to help companies from outside Wales if they will create jobs in Wales. That is the most important point. We must ensure that we deliver in terms of creating jobs in Wales, and we must also recognise that we must assist businesses from Wales. That happens at the moment and has happened since the Assembly was established.
Do you agree that more than £380 million committed to 656 Objective 1 projects throughout west Wales and the Valleys is making Wales a more attractive place for inward investment and that it will bring more highly-skilled, value-added jobs and, therefore, more prosperity to Wales’s poorer areas? Do you also agree that we have already made considerable progress, with unemployment almost halved in areas such as my constituency of Cynon Valley since Labour came to power in 1997?
A ydych yn cytuno bod y £380 miliwn a mwy a neilltuwyd ar gyfer 656 o brosiectau Amcan 1 ledled y Gorllewin a’r Cymoedd yn golygu bod Cymru’n lle mwy deniadol ar gyfer mewnfuddsoddi ac y daw â rhagor o swyddi hyfedr â gwerth ychwanegol ac, felly, mwy o ffyniant i ardaloedd tlotaf Cymru? A ydych hefyd yn cytuno ein bod wedi gwneud cryn gynnydd eisoes, a bod diweithdra wedi’i haneru bron mewn ardaloedd fel fy etholaeth i yng Nghwm Cynon ers i Lafur ddod i rym yn 1997?
The current employment rate and economic growth should fill the heart of everyone in Wales with joy. Compare it to our situation in the 1980s and 1990s when the economy was collapsing and nothing was done to improve the prospects of the people of Wales. That situation has changed and I wholeheartedly welcome the roll-out of Objective 1. We must remember that it is a medium-term project, which must be judged when it comes to an end. However, it is going well thus far.
Dylai’r gyfradd gyflogaeth a’r twf economaidd presennol beri llawenydd i bawb yng Nghymru. Cymharwch hynny â’n sefyllfa yn y 1980au a’r 1990au pan oedd yr economi’n crebachu a dim yn cael ei wneud i wella rhagolygon pobl Cymru. Mae’r sefyllfa honno wedi newid a chroesawaf weithredu Amcan 1 yn galonnog. Rhaid inni gofio mai prosiect tymor canolig ydyw, y bydd yn rhaid ei farnu pan ddaw i ben. Fodd bynnag, mae’n gwneud yn dda hyd yn hyn.
I am sure that all Members would applaud the Welsh Development Agency’s success in attracting inward investment over the past 30 years. Do you agree that in order to continue this success, Wales should be promoted as a lightly regulated country in which to do business and, against that background, that a Government that introduces a new regulation every 26 minutes is not promoting that image?
Yr wyf yn sicr y byddai’r holl Aelodau’n canmol llwyddiant Awdurdod Datblygu Cymru wrth ddenu mewnfuddsoddiad dros y 30 mlynedd diwethaf. A ydych yn cytuno, er mwyn parhau â’r llwyddiant hwn, y dylid hyrwyddo Cymru fel gwlad â baich rheoliadol ysgafn lle y gellir gwneud busnes ac, ar y cefndir hwnnw, nad yw Llywodraeth sy’n cyflwyno rheoliad newydd bob 26 munud yn hyrwyddo’r ddelwedd honno?
A lightly regulated country in which to do business’ is a euphemism for a country that ensures that its people have worse pay and conditions than any other country in western Europe. During the 1980s, jobs were brought into Wales at any cost. That conveyed the message that Wales would accept less in wages than anywhere else would and, therefore, that businesses should come here for that reason. If that is a country’s economic policy, in time it will be trumped by countries in eastern Europe and the far east where people will accept even less in wages. Our economic strategy will consider upskilling the people of Wales. It will ensure a good education system and a system that enables people to acquire skills. It will also try to ensure that we have a system whereby Wales attracts companies that bring high-quality and highly-skilled jobs here rather than those that want to open sweat shops, which is what the Tories wanted in the 1980s.
Mae ‘gwlad â baich rheoliadol ysgafn lle y gellir gwneud busnes’ yn fwythair am wlad sy’n sicrhau bod ei phobl yn cael gwaeth tâl ac amodau nag unrhyw wlad arall yng ngorllewin Ewrop. Yn ystod y 1980au, daethpwyd â swyddi i Gymru ar unrhyw gost. Yr oedd hynny’n cyfleu’r neges y gwnâi Cymru dderbyn cyflogau llai nag unrhyw fan arall ac, felly, y dylai busnesau ddod yma am y rheswm hwnnw. Os mai hwnnw yw polisi economaidd y wlad, ymhen amser caiff ei churo gan wledydd yn nwyrain Ewrop a’r dwyrain pell lle y gwnaiff pobl dderbyn cyflogau llai byth. Bydd ein strategaeth economaidd ni’n ystyried gwella sgiliau pobl Cymru. Bydd yn sicrhau system addysg dda a system sy’n galluogi pobl i feithrin sgiliau. Bydd hefyd yn ceisio sicrhau bod gennym system sy’n caniatáu i Gymru ddenu cwmnïau sy’n dod â swyddi hyfedr o ansawdd da yn hytrach na rhai sydd am agor slafdai, sef yr hyn yr oedd y Torïaid am ei wneud yn y 1980au.
Pa gamau a gymerodd y Prif Weinidog i sicrhau bod y rhwydwaith band eang yng ngogledd Cymru’n llwyddo i ddenu lefel uchel o fuddsoddi mewnol?
What steps has the First Minister taken to ensure that the broadband network in north Wales succeeds in attracting high levels of inward investment?
Mae hwn yn fater i’m cyd-Aelod, Andrew Davies, y Gweinidog dros Ddatblygu Economaidd. Gwn fod y Prif Weinidog yn cefnogi’r bwriad i sicrhau y caiff band eang ei ddarparu ledled Cymru. Mae’n bwysig i ddenu busnesau i Gymru. Deallaf fod Bwrdd Datblygu Cymru yn hysbysebu hyn ar awyrennau British Airways er mwyn hysbysu pobl fod band eang ar gael mewn sawl lle yng Nghymru a’i fod yn ased i’r wlad. Mae hynny’n enghraifft o sut y dylem farchnata’r wlad—yn hytrach na dweud wrth fusnesau am ddod i Gymru gan ei fod yn rhatach nac unrhyw le arall.
This is an issue for my colleague, Andrew Davies, the Minister for Economic Development. I know that the First Minister supports the objective of ensuring that broadband is rolled-out throughout Wales. It is important in order to attract businesses to Wales. I understand that the Welsh Development Agency is advertising this on British Airways flights in order to tell people that broadband is widely available in Wales and that it is an asset to the country. That is an example of how we should market the country—rather than telling businesses to come to Wales because it is cheaper than anywhere else.
Swyddfeydd Post Gwledig
Rural Post Offices
What representations has the First Minister made to the UK Government over the summer recess regarding the closure of rural post offices in Wales? (OAQ19386)
Pa sylwadau a gyflwynwyd gan y Prif Weinidog i Lywodraeth y DU yn ystod toriad yr haf ynghylch cau swyddfeydd post gwledig yng Nghymru? (OAQ19386)
The First Minister meets with the Secretary of State for Wales regularly to discuss a wide range of issues, including the maintenance of a viable post office network in Wales.
Mae Prif Weinidog Cymru’n cwrdd ag Ysgrifennydd Gwladol Cymru’n rheolaidd i drafod amrediad eang o faterion, gan gynnwys cynnal rhwydwaith swyddfeydd post hyfyw yng Nghymru.
In the recess, David Davies and I had the opportunity to open a community rural post office. It was the second that I have helped to open. The UK Government recently announced—as was reported in The Western Mail last week—that £450 million has been set aside to safeguard rural post offices. How much of this money will come to Wales and how will it be spent?
Yn ystod y toriad, cafodd David Davies a minnau’r cyfle i agor swyddfa bost wledig gymunedol. Honno oedd yr ail yr wyf wedi helpu i’w hagor. Cyhoeddodd Llywodraeth y DU yn ddiweddar—fel yr adroddwyd yn The Western Mail yr wythnos diwethaf—fod £450 miliwn wedi’i neilltuo i ddiogelu swyddfeydd post gwledig. Pa faint o’r arian hwn a ddaw i Gymru a sut y caiff ei wario?
This issue must be examined when the official announcement on how much money will be available in Wales is made. Your supplementary question adds new spice to the issue of coalition politics, given the situation that exists in the Vale of Glamorgan.
Bydd yn rhaid archwilio’r mater hwn pan wneir y cyhoeddiad swyddogol ar faint o arian a fydd ar gael yng Nghymru. Mae’ch cwestiwn atodol yn rhoi blas ychwanegol newydd ar fater gwleidyddiaeth glymbleidiol, o ystyried y sefyllfa a geir ym Mro Morgannwg.
On rural post offices, the UK and Assembly Governments understand the importance of rural post offices. I will give two examples to confirm this. First, I was fortunate enough—[Interruption.]
Ynghylch swyddfeydd post gwledig, mae Llywodraeth y DU a Llywodraeth y Cynulliad yn deall mor bwysig yw swyddfeydd post gwledig. Rhoddaf ddwy enghraifft i gadarnhau hynny. Yn gyntaf, bûm yn ddigon ffodus—[Torri ar draws.]
Dafydd Elis-Thomas The Presiding Officer spoken in English p. 17
Dafydd Elis-Thomas Y Llywydd siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 17
Order. I know that the Vale of Glamorgan is full of rural post offices.
Trefn. Gwn fod Bro Morgannwg yn llawn swyddfeydd post gwledig.
I was fortunate enough to assist in reopening a rural post office in Coychurch in my constituency that had been closed for five years. I was grateful to the Post Office for that. In the village of Blaenplwyf outside Aberystwyth—famous for its television transmitter—local people have used Objective 1 funding, fought for by the Labour Government in Europe, to reopen and make their post office viable. That is an example of how the funding can be used constructively and how it is making a difference to the people of Wales.
Bûm yn ddigon ffodus i helpu i ailagor swyddfa bost wledig yn Llangrallo yn fy etholaeth i a fuasai ar gau am bum mlynedd. Yr oeddwn yn ddiolchgar i Swyddfa’r Post am hynny. Ym mhentref Blaen-plwyf y tu allan i Aberystwyth—sy’n enwog am ei drosglwyddydd teledu—mae pobl leol wedi defnyddio cyllid Amcan 1, yr ymladdodd y Llywodraeth Lafur amdano yn Ewrop, i ailagor eu swyddfa bost a’i gwneud yn hyfyw. Mae hynny’n enghraifft o’r modd y gellir defnyddio’r cyllid yn adeiladol a sut y mae’n gwneud gwahaniaeth i bobl Cymru.
Post offices are also under threat in more urban locations. I draw your attention to Safeway’s disgraceful decision to abandon its post office franchise in Colwyn Bay. Will you support the retention of post office services in the heart of Colwyn Bay, and in particular, the continuity of supply of those services?
Mae swyddfeydd post dan fygythiad mewn lleoliadau mwy trefol hefyd. Tynnaf eich sylw at benderfyniad gwarthus Safeway i roi’r gorau i’w fasnachfraint swyddfa bost ym Mae Colwyn. A wnewch gefnogi cadw gwasanaethau swyddfa bost yng nghanol Bae Colwyn ac, yn benodol, y parhad yn y ddarpariaeth o’r gwasanaethau hynny?
As ever, Alun, you are fully attuned to the needs of your constituents. As far as services in Colwyn Bay are concerned, it is important that people have easy access to post offices. I am sure that the First Minister would echo my words of support for what you are trying to achieve if he were here today.
Fel erioed, Alun, yr ydych mewn cytgord llwyr ag anghenion eich etholwyr. O ran y gwasanaethau ym Mae Colwyn, mae’n bwysig bod pobl yn gallu cyrraedd swyddfeydd post yn rhwydd. Yr wyf yn sicr y byddai Prif Weinidog Cymru’n ategu fy ngeiriau o gefnogaeth i’r hyn yr ydych yn ceisio’i gyflawni pe byddai yma heddiw.
You will remember that the fate of rural post offices was one of the underlying concerns of the multi-issue demonstrations on 22 September. We have touched on that today, but will you tell us how the money to safeguard rural post offices will be spent in Wales?
Byddwch yn cofio mai tynged swyddfeydd post gwledig oedd un o’r materion sylfaenol a oedd dan sylw yn y gwrthdystiadau aml-bwnc ar 22 Medi. Yr ydym wedi cyfeirio at hynny heddiw, ond a wnewch chi ddweud wrthym sut y bydd yr arian i ddiogelu swyddfeydd post gwledig yn cael ei wario yng Nghymru?
As I understand, this money has not been officially announced, but it has been mentioned in some newspapers. When the announcement is made, we will have to wait to see what share we receive. However, it is not simply a matter of money coming from London. We must also ensure that people are willing to run rural post offices—one of the great difficulties is finding sub-postmasters and postmistresses. Therefore, it is not simply a question of acquiring extra money, we must also ensure that people understand that running a rural post office is pleasurable and viable.
Yn ôl a ddeallaf, nid yw’r arian hwn wedi’i gyhoeddi’n swyddogol, ond fe’i crybwyllwyd mewn rhai papurau newydd. Pan wneir y cyhoeddiad, bydd yn rhaid inni aros i weld pa gyfran a dderbyniwn. Fodd bynnag, nid mater o arian yn dod o Lundain yn unig ydyw. Rhaid inni hefyd sicrhau bod pobl yn barod i redeg swyddfeydd post gwledig—un o’r trafferthion mawr yw dod o hyd i is-bostfeistri ac is-bostfeistresi. Felly, nid yw’n fater o gael arian ychwanegol yn unig, rhaid inni sicrhau hefyd fod pobl yn deall bod rhedeg swyddfa bost wledig yn beth pleserus a dichonadwy.
One key issue affecting the survival of all post offices is the payment of pensions and benefits directly into people’s bank accounts from April 2003. Clearly, many people still have the option of collecting their pensions and benefits in the form of cash by using the new cash card system. Do you share my concern that the Department for Work and Pensions and the post office have issued instructions to postmasters not to advertise these cash cards by means of posters or distributing leaflets in post offices?
Un o’r materion allweddol sy’n effeithio ar barhad yr holl swyddfeydd post yw talu pensiynau a budd-daliadau’n uniongyrchol i gyfrifon banc pobl o Ebrill 2003 ymlaen. Wrth gwrs, mae gan lawer o bobl y dewis o gasglu eu pensiynau a’u budd-daliadau ar ffurf arian parod drwy ddefnyddio’r system cardiau arian newydd. A ydych yn rhannu fy mhryder ynghylch y ffaith bod yr Adran Gwaith a Phensiynau a Swyddfa’r Post wedi rhoi cyfarwyddiadau i bostfeistri i beidio â hysbysebu’r cardiau arian hyn drwy osod posteri neu ddosbarthu taflenni mewn swyddfeydd post?
It is up to individuals to decide how they wish to collect their benefits and pensions. I am sure that rules will be drafted to help rural post offices despite the fact that I occasionally see petitions calling for their salvation even though there is currently no direct threat to them. I have seen petitions in my constituency.
Mater i unigolion yw penderfynu sut y maent yn dymuno casglu eu budd-daliadau a’u pensiynau. Yr wyf yn sicr y caiff rheolau eu drafftio i helpu swyddfeydd post gwledig er gwaethaf y ffaith fy mod weithiau’n gweld deisebau sy’n galw am eu hachub er nad oes bygythiad uniongyrchol iddynt ar hyn o bryd. Yr wyf wedi gweld deisebau yn fy etholaeth i.
The post office has employed four rural transfer advisers based in Bridgend, Swansea and Bangor to work proactively with postmasters and post mistresses and local communities to find solutions to the closure of rural post offices. The rural transfer advisers have been instrumental in preventing rural post office closures by giving advice and helping postmasters and post mistresses and local communities to access the £2 million capital subsidy fund that currently exists.
Mae Swyddfa’r Post wedi cyflogi pedwar ymgynghorydd trosglwyddo gwledig sydd wedi’u lleoli ym Mhen-y-bont ar Ogwr, Abertawe a Bangor i weithio’n rhagweithiol gyda phostfeistri a phostfeistresi a chymunedau lleol i ddod o hyd i atebion rhag cau swyddfeydd post gwledig. Bu’r ymgynghorwyr trosglwyddo gwledig yn gyfrwng i atal cau swyddfeydd post gwledig drwy roi cyngor a helpu postfeistri a phostfeistresi a chymunedau lleol i gael at y gronfa gymhorthdal cyfalaf o £2 filiwn sy’n bod ar hyn o bryd.
Troseddu sy’n Gysylltiedig â Chyffuriau
Drug-related Crime
Will the First Minister make a statement on the measures being taken to tackle drug-related crime in north Wales? (OAQ19350)
A wnaiff y Prif Weinidog ddatganiad ar y mesurau sydd ar waith i fynd i’r afael â throseddu sy’n gysylltiedig â chyffuriau yng ngogledd Cymru? (OAQ19350)
This is an extremely serious issue, not only for your constituency, but for the whole of Wales. North Wales Police has a policy of rigorous enforcement regarding drug-related crime—it is committing more resources to operations to drive it down than to tackling any other type of crime. In particular, it is focusing on convicting major drug dealers—a group that deserves no respect whatsoever—who prey on the weaknesses and despair of others. It is tough on those who use or trade in banned substances, but it also encourages people to seek rehabilitation. The Home Office’s Communities Against Drugs funding, which is directed at drug-related crime and the destruction of drug markets, supports several projects across north Wales, including community wardens, education, youth outreach work and covert surveillance operations.
Mae hyn yn fater difrifol dros ben, nid yn unig i’ch etholaeth chi, ond i Gymru gyfan. Mae gan Heddlu Gogledd Cymru bolisi o orfodi cadarn o ran troseddu sy’n gysylltiedig â chyffuriau—mae’n neilltuo mwy o adnoddau i ymgyrchoedd i’w leihau nag i ymladd unrhyw fath arall o droseddu. Yn benodol, mae’n canolbwyntio ar gael euogfarnau ar werthwyr cyffuriau mawr—grŵp nad yw’n haeddu dim parch o gwbl—sy’n manteisio ar wendidau ac anobaith eraill. Mae’n galed ar y rhai sy’n defnyddio neu’n delio mewn sylweddau gwaharddedig, ond mae hefyd yn annog pobl i geisio eu hailsefydlu. Mae cyllid Cymunedau yn erbyn Cyffuriau y Swyddfa Gartref, a gyfeirir at droseddu sy’n gysylltiedig â chyffuriau a dinistrio marchnadoedd cyffuriau, yn cynnal sawl prosiect ledled y Gogledd, gan gynnwys wardeiniaid cymunedol, addysg, gwaith maes gyda phobl ifanc a gweithrediadau gwyliadwriaeth gudd.
Many people in my constituency are delighted by the Finance Minister’s announcement on integrating drug and alcohol action teams within the local crime and disorder reduction partnerships. Do you agree that the best drug policy is one of no first use? You have mentioned North Wales Police, which undertook a vigorous campaign called Operation Decade, rounding up around 26 key drug dealers. They are now serving a combined sentence of 65 years. However, do you agree that this is an ongoing battle and that we must do everything in our power to ensure that other criminal networks are not allowed to fill the gaps left when police raids are successful and result in convictions?
Mae llawer o bobl yn fy etholaeth i’n falch iawn o gyhoeddiad y Gweinidog Cyllid ar integreiddio timau gweithredu alcohol a chyffuriau o fewn y partneriaethau gostwng troseddu ac anhrefn lleol. A ydych yn cytuno mai’r polisi cyffuriau gorau yw peidio â’u defnyddio y tro cyntaf? Yr ydych wedi sôn am Heddlu Gogledd Cymru, a ymgymerodd ag ymgyrch egnïol o’r enw Ymgyrch Decade, gan rwydo tua 26 o werthwyr cyffuriau allweddol. Maent bellach yn bwrw tymor o gyfanswm o 65 mlynedd yn y carchar. Fodd bynnag, a ydych yn cytuno mai brwydr barhaus yw hon a bod rhaid inni wneud popeth yn ein gallu i sicrhau na chaniateir i rwydweithiau troseddol eraill lenwi’r bylchau a adewir pan yw ymgyrchoedd yr heddlu’n llwyddiannus ac yn arwain at gael rhai’n euog?
Absolutely. One of the most sickening stories that I heard recently was about drug dealers in my constituency trying to interest children in class A drugs by offering loss leaders and providing what are called ‘goody bags’. It is difficult to imagine that mentality, and they must be stopped. You made a good point about ensuring that the gap is not filled by others when people are imprisoned. That has not perhaps been done as effectively as possible in the past. We know that there has been a massive increase in the use and availability of class A drugs over the past 20 years, and also in the production of new class A drugs. We must always be aware of that, and fight it at all costs. We know of the effect of drugs on individuals, on communities and on the crime rate. It is the most degrading and degenerative problem that some communities face. We owe it to those communities to do something about these dealers.
Yn hollol. Un o’r hanesion ffieiddiaf a glywais yn ddiweddar oedd un am werthwyr cyffuriau yn fy etholaeth i’n ceisio denu plant at gyffuriau dosbarth A drwy gynnig rhai ar golled a darparu’r hyn a elwir yn ‘goody bags’. Anodd deall meddwl y bobl hynny, a rhaid eu hatal. Gwnaethoch bwynt da ynghylch sicrhau nad yw eraill yn llenwi’r bwlch pan gaiff pobl eu carcharu. Efallai na wnaed hynny mor effeithiol ag y gellid yn y gorffennol. Gwyddom fod cynnydd aruthrol wedi bod yn nefnydd ac argaeledd cyffuriau dosbarth A dros yr 20 mlynedd diwethaf, a hefyd yn y cynhyrchu ar gyffuriau dosbarth A newydd. Rhaid inni fod yn ymwybodol o hynny bob amser, a’i ymladd ar bob cyfrif. Gwyddom am effaith cyffuriau ar unigolion, ar gymunedau ac ar y gyfradd droseddu. Honno yw’r broblem fwyaf diraddiol a dirywiol y mae rhai cymunedau’n ei hwynebu. Yr ydym dan ddyletswydd at y cymunedau hynny i wneud rhywbeth ynghylch y gwerthwyr hyn.
Mae rhai arbenigwyr yn honni bod polisïau cyfredol y Llywodraeth yn caniatáu i droseddwyr arfog reoli rhai o gyffuriau peryclaf cymdeithas. Yn ôl prif gwnstabl Heddlu Gogledd Cymru, mae’r ddeddfwriaeth bresennol yn achosi trosedd—yn ei eiriau ef, mae’n cyffelybu rhoi Ghengis Khan yn gyfrifol am bolisi cymdeithasol. Onid yw’n bryd i Lywodraeth y Cynulliad fabwysiadu rhaglen gydlynus a radicalaidd i ddangos arweiniad clir a phendant i geisio datrys problem sydd yn achosi nid yn unig tor-cyfraith ond dioddefaint a digalondid i nifer cynyddol o deuluoedd yng Nghymru?
Some experts claim that the Government’s current policies allow armed criminals to control some of society’s most dangerous drugs. According to the chief constable of North Wales Police, current legislation causes crime—in his words, it is like putting Ghengis Khan in charge of social policy. Is it not time for the Assembly Government to adopt a coherent and radical programme to give clear and unequivocal guidance to try to solve a problem that not only causes crime, but suffering and misery for an increasing number of families in Wales?
Os oes deddfwriaeth, bydd troseddu. Rhaid cael rheolau i sicrhau nad yw cyffuriau yn rheoli ardaloedd mawr o Gymru—gwyddom eu bod wedi gwneud hynny’n barod mewn rhai ardaloedd. O ran y Cynulliad, mae Edwina Hart wedi cytuno bod problem ynglŷn â thriniaeth yng Nghymru, a bod rhaid inni helpu pobl sydd am fynd i ganolfannau adsefydlu. O ran y gyllideb, mae Edwina wedi sôn am sicrhau cymunedau diogel, a rhaid adeiladu ar y gwaith hwnnw.
If there is legislation, there will be crime. We must have laws to ensure that drugs do not take over large areas of Wales—we know that they have already done so in some areas. From an Assembly viewpoint, Edwina Hart has agreed that there is a problem as regards the treatment of drug addicts in Wales, and that we must assist those who want to attend rehabilitation centres. As regards the budget, Edwina has talked about ensuring safer communities, and we must build on those efforts.
Statws Ffug Hunangyflogedig
Bogus Self-employment Status
Has the First Minister any plans to tackle the use of bogus self-employment status on Welsh Assembly Government contracts along the lines adopted by the Scottish Executive? (OAQ19354) [R]
Oes gan y Prif Weinidog unrhyw fwriad o fynd i’r afael â’r defnydd a wneir o’r statws ffug hunangyflogedig ar gontractau Llywodraeth Cynulliad Cymru, yn unol â’r hyn sydd wedi’i fabwysiadu gan Weithrediaeth yr Alban? (OAQ19354) [R]
The First Minister is aware of the Scottish Executive’s proposals for dealing with bogus self-employment status, and the Assembly Government already includes statutory obligations on health, safety, employment and discrimination in our terms and conditions of contract with our main suppliers. That position is kept under review and revisions are introduced as required.
Mae Prif Weinidog Cymru’n ymwybodol o gynlluniau Gweithrediaeth yr Alban i ymdrin â statws ffug hunangyflogedig, ac mae Llywodraeth y Cynulliad eisoes yn cynnwys rhwymedigaethau statudol ar iechyd, diogelwch, cyflogaeth a gwahaniaethu yn nhelerau ac amodau ein contractau â’n prif gyflenwyr. Delir y sefyllfa honno dan arolwg a chyflwynir newidiadau yn ôl y gofyn.
I am grateful for that, and I would be interested in seeing some documentation of the outcome of that monitoring. Bogus self-employment is a long-standing scam in the construction industry; it costs taxpayers millions of pounds every year, and leaves many of the workers affected without pension rights. It creates a casualisation in the construction industry, which, in turn, creates the dangerous conditions that you outlined in your response. I would be grateful for any further documentation on the effect of the monitoring.
Yr wyf yn ddiolchgar am hynny, a byddai o ddiddordeb imi weld peth o ganlyniadau y monitro hwnnw. Mae ffug hunangyflogaeth yn hen ystryw yn y diwydiant adeiladu; mae’n costio miliynau o bunnoedd i’r trethdalwyr bob blwyddyn, ac mae’n gadael llawer o’r gweithwyr y mae’n effeithio arnynt heb hawliau pensiwn. Mae’n creu swyddi dros dro yn y diwydiant adeiladu ac mae hynny, yn ei dro, yn creu’r amodau peryglus y bu ichi eu disgrifio yn eich ymateb. Byddwn yn ddiolchgar am unrhyw ddogfennau pellach ar effaith y monitro.
I am sure that that can be provided. Some people evade tax and national insurance liability as a result of bogus self-employment status, and others suffer from not having proper pension provision or properly paid-up national insurance stamps—that might appeal to some Members, but not to me.
Yr wyf yn sicr y gellir eu darparu. Mae rhai pobl yn osgoi eu hatebolrwydd i dalu treth ac yswiriant gwladol o ganlyniad i statws ffug hunangyflogaeth, ac mae eraill yn dioddef o fod heb ddarpariaeth pensiwn briodol neu stampiau yswiriant gwladol a dalwyd yn briodol—efallai fod hynny at ddant rhai o’r Aelodau, ond nid yw at fy nant i.
Do you have any plans to ask your colleagues in the Scottish Executive about other forms of bogus contracts, because it seems to be an area in which they have a high level of expertise?
A oes gennych unrhyw fwriad i holi’ch cymheiriaid yng Ngweithrediaeth yr Alban am fathau eraill o gontractau ffug, gan ei bod yn ymddangos bod ganddynt lawer o arbenigedd yn y maes hwn?
I have not had contact with the Scottish Executive on this point. There are many overblown stories in Scotland because of its overactive press. I am sure that the stories that have circulated on this occasion are an example of that.
Ni fûm mewn cysylltiad â Gweithrediaeth yr Alban ar y mater hwn. Mae llawer o hanesion chwyddedig yn yr Alban oherwydd ei gwasg orfywiog. Yr wyf yn sicr bod yr hanesion sydd ar led y tro hwn yn enghraifft o hynny.
In terms of bogus status, do you agree that it is somewhat difficult to understand the Deputy First Minister’s role unless he deputises for the First Minister on occasions such as this one?
Yng nghyd-destun statws ffug, a ydych yn cytuno ei bod braidd yn anodd deall rôl Dirprwy Brif Weinidog Cymru os nad yw’n dirprwyo dros Brif Weinidog Cymru ar achlysuron fel hyn?
Gwaith LG Philips Displays
LG Philips Displays Plant
Will the First Minister make a statement on what measures his Government has taken to secure the future of LG Philips Displays electronic plant in Newport? (OAQ19383)
A wnaiff y Prif Weinidog ddatganiad ar y camau y mae ei Lywodraeth wedi’u cymryd i ddiogelu dyfodol gwaith electroneg LG Philips Displays yng Nghasnewydd? (OAQ19383)
There has been speculation about the future of the LG Philips Displays joint venture company at Newport due to a leaked document in which the company appears to be considering rationalisation options across its European operations. Officials from the National Assembly and the Welsh Development Agency have met local management, and in the next few days will try to meet the director of the company’s European operations. The Minister for Economic Development and the First Minister will keep Assembly Members informed of progress, but at present there are ongoing sensitive commercial discussions that may involve the company.
Bu dyfalu ynghylch dyfodol cwmni cydfenter LG Philips Displays yng Nghasnewydd oherwydd datgelu dogfen gyfrinachol lle y mae’n ymddangos bod y cwmni’n ystyried dewisiadau o ran rhesymoli yn ei weithrediadau ledled Ewrop. Mae swyddogion o’r Cynulliad Cenedlaethol ac Awdurdod Datblygu Cymru wedi cwrdd â’r rheolwyr lleol, ac yn y dyddiau nesaf byddant yn ceisio cwrdd â chyfarwyddwr gweithrediadau Ewropeaidd y cwmni. Bydd y Gweinidog dros Ddatblygu Economaidd a Phrif Weinidog Cymru’n rhoi gwybod i Aelodau’r Cynulliad am y datblygiadau, ond ar hyn o bryd mae trafodaethau masnachol sensitif yn mynd ymlaen a allai gynnwys y cwmni.
Is the Government aware of any investment plans that LG Philips Displays has for its Newport plant to ensure its long-term security?
A yw’r Llywodraeth yn ymwybodol o unrhyw gynlluniau buddsoddi sydd gan LG Philips Displays ar gyfer ei waith yng Nghasnewydd i sicrhau y bydd yn ddiogel yn y tymor hir?
I am not aware of anything other than I have read in the press. Officials are discussing the situation with LG Philips Displays, and, as I mentioned, the Assembly will be kept informed.
Nid wyf yn ymwybodol o ddim heblaw’r hyn a ddarllenais yn y wasg. Mae’r swyddogion yn trafod y sefyllfa gyda LG Philips Displays, ac, fel y dywedais, rhoddir gwybod i’r Cynulliad am y datblygiadau.
Will you join me in congratulating the trade unions in bringing this matter to public attention, thus enabling your officials to take their discussions further?
A wnewch chi ymuno â mi i longyfarch yr undebau llafur ar ddod â’r mater hwn i sylw’r cyhoedd, fel y gallai’ch swyddogion fynd â’u trafodaethau ymhellach?
I am always ready to welcome the positive actions of the trade unions and their positive contribution to society.
Yr wyf bob amser yn barod i groesawu’r camau cadarnhaol a gymerir gan yr undebau llafur a’u cyfraniad cadarnhaol i gymdeithas.
I am sure that you remember the huge effort that was put in by the then Welsh Office and Newport County Borough Council to attract these jobs to Newport. They are high-quality, highly skilled jobs. Will you assure us that you will do everything possible to ensure that work continues at this site?
Yr wyf yn sicr y cofiwch yr ymdrech aruthrol gan y Swyddfa Gymreig bryd hynny a Chyngor Bwrdeistref Sirol Casnewydd i ddenu’r swyddi hyn i Gasnewydd. Maent yn swyddi hyfedr o ansawdd da. A wnewch ein sicrhau y gwnewch bopeth y gellir i sicrhau bod gwaith yn parhau ar y safle hwn?
I believe that I speak on behalf of the First Minister and the Minister for Economic Development when I say that they will do all that they can to ensure that this plant prospers in the future. That is part of the job.
Credaf fy mod yn siarad ar ran Prif Weinidog Cymru a’r Gweinidog dros Ddatblygu Economaidd pan ddywedaf y gwnânt bopeth yn eu gallu i sicrhau bod y gwaith hwn yn ffynnu yn y dyfodol. Mae hynny’n rhan o’n gwaith.
Datganiad ar Bolisi Chwarae
Statement on Play Policy
Jane Hutt The Minister for Health and Social Services spoken in English p. 24
Jane Hutt Y Gweinidog dros Iechyd a Gwasanaethau Cymdeithasol siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 24
I am pleased to announce the publication of the Welsh Assembly Government’s play policy. We are the first administration in the United Kingdom to develop such a policy. This policy is a broad statement of principle, and over the next year the Assembly Government will work with its partners to develop a more detailed strategy. Every child has a right to play. Our policy is founded on article 31 of the United Nations convention on the rights of the child, which states that the child has the right to rest and to engage in leisure, play and recreational activities.
Yr wyf yn falch o ddatgan cyhoeddi polisi chwarae Llywodraeth Cynulliad Cymru. Ni yw’r weinyddiaeth gyntaf yn y Deyrnas Unedig i ddatblygu polisi o’r fath. Mae’r polisi hwn yn ddatganiad o egwyddor cyffredinol, a thros y flwyddyn nesaf bydd Llywodraeth y Cynulliad yn gweithio gyda’i phartneriaid i ddatblygu strategaeth fanylach. Mae gan bob plentyn hawl i chwarae. Mae ein polisi’n seiliedig ar erthygl 31 o gytundeb y Cenhedloedd Unedig ar hawliau’r plentyn, sy’n datgan bod gan y plentyn hawl i orffwys a chymryd rhan mewn gweithgareddau hamdden, chwarae ac adloniadol.
The policy recognises that play is vital for children and is fundamental to how they learn about the world. At all levels of government we should consider the impact of our decisions on children’s opportunities to play. Play forms an important part of a child’s life and if a child is denied that opportunity it will inhibit and constrain his or her personal development. Parents seek safe places for children to play, and too often play space is omitted from urban and rural developments. The recent Save the Children report on the wellbeing of children in the UK concluded that there was now,
Mae’r polisi’n cydnabod bod chwarae’n hollbwysig i blant a’i fod yn hanfodol i’r modd y dysgant am y byd. Ar bob lefel o lywodraeth dylem ystyried effaith ein penderfyniadau ar gyfleoedd chwarae plant. Mae chwarae’n rhan bwysig o fywyd y plentyn ac os naceir y cyfle hwnnw i’r plentyn bydd yn llesteirio ac yn cyfyngu ar ei ddatblygiad personol. Mae rhieni am i’w plant gael chwarae mewn lleoedd diogel, ac yn rhy aml ni chaiff lleoedd chwarae eu cynnwys mewn cynlluniau datblygu trefol a gwledig. Yn adroddiad diweddar Achub y Plant ar les plant yn y DU casglwyd bod bellach,
‘more competition between traffic and space to play; and a fall in free play’.
mwy o gystadlu rhwng traffig a lle i chwarae; a gostyngiad mewn chwarae rhydd.
This was cited as a deterioration in our children’s wellbeing.
Crybwyllwyd hyn fel dirywiad yn lles ein plant.
The Assembly Government is committed to ensuring that all children have access to rich, stimulating play experiences, with safeguards from inappropriate risk, but full of challenge, offering them the opportunity to explore, through freely-chosen play, both themselves and the world. The policy statement is based on the principles that every child is entitled to respect for his or her unique contribution of qualities and capabilities; that the perceptions of the child, and his or her views and opinions should always be respected; and that the child’s free choice of his or her own play is a critical factor in enriching learning and contributing to his or her wellbeing and development.
Mae Llywodraeth y Cynulliad wedi ymrwymo i sicrhau y gall pob plentyn gael profiadau chwarae gwerthfawr a chyffrous, wedi’u hamddiffyn rhag risg amhriodol, ond yn llawn her, gan gynnig cyfle iddynt ddod i adnabod, drwy’r chwarae a ddewisir o’u gwirfodd, eu hunain a’r byd. Mae’r datganiad polisi’n seiliedig ar yr egwyddorion bod hawl gan bob plentyn i gael parch at ei gyfraniad unigryw o rinweddau a galluoedd; y dylid parchu canfyddiadau’r plentyn, a’i farn a’i safbwyntiau bob amser; a bod gallu’r plentyn i ddewis ei chwarae ei hun o’i wirfodd yn ffactor allweddol o ran cyfoethogi dysgu a chyfrannu at ei les a’i ddatblygiad.
In many ways, modern life has restricted the opportunity for children to play freely, and parental anxiety about the safety of children playing outside has had a significant impact. That is why we are determined to provide high-quality play opportunities for all ages to help compensate for that restriction. Play provision supported by trained workers can recognise children’s innate need to take risks and allow appropriate challenge. There is much evidence that play provision has wider benefits for society, for example, in reducing youth offending and in building the social confidence of children and young people.
Ar lawer ystyr, mae bywyd modern wedi cyfyngu ar gyfle plant i chwarae’n rhydd, ac mae pryder rhieni ynghylch diogelwch plant sy’n chwarae yn yr awyr agored wedi cael effaith sylweddol. Dyna pam yr ydym yn benderfynol o ddarparu cyfleoedd chwarae o ansawdd da i rai o bob oed i helpu i wneud iawn am y cyfyngiad hwnnw. Mae darpariaeth chwarae gyda chymorth gweithwyr hyfforddedig yn gallu cydnabod angen cynhenid plant i fentro a chaniatáu her briodol. Mae llawer o dystiolaeth bod darpariaeth chwarae’n dod â manteision ehangach i gymdeithas, er enghraifft, drwy ostwng troseddu ymysg pobl ifanc a meithrin hyder cymdeithasol mewn plant a phobl ifanc.
Wales has led the way in the priority it has given to play. The groundbreaking play grant was introduced in 2000, with £1 million provided for open access play. Funding for play has now increased to £2.8 million for this financial year. When this grant commenced a review on open access play was commissioned. That review, ‘The State of Play’, recommended the production of a play policy for Wales. Today, we are fulfilling that recommendation. The play policy was drafted by Play Wales, working closely with practitioners in the field. I take this opportunity to commend Play Wales for all its work in developing play opportunities across the country.
Mae Cymru wedi arwain o ran y flaenoriaeth a roddodd i chwarae. Cyflwynwyd y grant chwarae arloesol yn 2000, a darparwyd £1 filiwn ar gyfer chwarae mynediad agored. Mae’r cyllid ar gyfer chwarae wedi cynyddu i £2.8 miliwn bellach ar gyfer y flwyddyn ariannol hon. Pan ddechreuodd y grant hwn, comisiynwyd adolygiad o chwarae mynediad agored. Yr oedd yr adolygiad hwnnw, ‘Cyflwr Chwarae’, yn argymell cynhyrchu polisi chwarae i Gymru. Heddiw, yr ydym yn cyflawni’r argymhelliad hwnnw. Drafftiwyd y polisi chwarae gan Chwarae Cymru, gan gydweithio’n agos ag ymarferwyr yn y maes. Achubaf ar y cyfle hwn i ganmol Chwarae Cymru am ei holl waith wrth ddatblygu cyfleoedd chwarae ledled y wlad.
Many of our programmes, besides the direct play grant, help to develop play. Jane Davidson and I are building a programme of integrated children’s centres and networks of services, each of which will provide open-access play opportunities. We are grateful to the new opportunities fund for providing capital funding for these centres. For the youngest children, Sure Start provides story sacks and toy libraries and offers parent and toddler groups to encourage parents to play with their children; parents themselves are often young and uncertain. We provide direct funding to voluntary organisations that develop play, playgroups and out-of-school clubs. We provided £500,000 in the last financial year for play equipment in the voluntary sector, and £2 million to refurbish local authority playgrounds. From next year, the unified grant, Cymorth, will support play, especially in disadvantaged areas, recognising play opportunities as a vital element of community regeneration and the emotional development of children in those areas.
Mae llawer o’n rhaglenni, yn ogystal â’r grant chwarae uniongyrchol, yn helpu i ddatblygu chwarae. Mae Jane Davidson a minnau’n creu rhaglen o ganolfannau plant integredig a rhwydweithiau gwasanaethau, y byddant oll yn darparu cyfleoedd chwarae â mynediad agored. Yr ydym yn ddiolchgar i’r gronfa cyfleoedd newydd am ddarparu cyllid cyfalaf ar gyfer y canolfannau hynny. Mae Cychwyn Cadarn yn darparu sachau storïau a llyfrgelloedd teganau i’r plant ieuengaf ac yn cynnig grwpiau rhieni a phlant bach i annog rhieni i chwarae gyda’u plant; mae llawer o rieni’n ifanc ac yn ansicr. Yr ydym yn rhoi cyllid uniongyrchol i gyrff gwirfoddol sy’n datblygu chwarae, grwpiau chwarae a chlybiau y tu allan i’r ysgol. Darparwyd £500,000 gennym yn y flwyddyn ariannol ddiwethaf ar gyfer offer chwarae yn y sector gwirfoddol, a £2 filiwn i adnewyddu meysydd chwarae awdurdodau lleol. O’r flwyddyn nesaf ymlaen, bydd y grant unedig, Cymorth, yn cefnogi chwarae, yn enwedig mewn ardaloedd difreintiedig, gan gydnabod bod cyfleoedd chwarae’n elfen hollbwysig mewn adfywio cymunedol a datblygiad emosiynol plant yn yr ardaloedd hynny.
David Lloyd George said,
Dywedodd David Lloyd George,
‘The right to play is a child’s first claim on the community. Play is nature’s training for life. No community can infringe that right without doing deep and enduring harm to the minds and bodies of its citizens.’
Yr hawl i chwarae yw’r hawl gyntaf sydd gan blentyn yn ei gymuned. Chwarae yw hyfforddiant natur ar gyfer bywyd. Ni all yr un gymuned dresmasu ar yr hawl honno heb wneud niwed mawr a pharhaol i feddyliau a chyrff ei dinasyddion.
Today we reaffirm that right to play in our play policy. We will build on our programmes in the light of the strategy for play that we will now develop.
Heddiw ailddatganwn yr hawl honno i chwarae yn ein polisi chwarae. Byddwn yn adeiladu ar sail ein rhaglenni yng ngoleuni’r strategaeth chwarae a ddatblygwn yn awr.
O safbwynt hybu iechyd, mae’n bwysig bod plant yn gallu chwarae’n rhwydd ac yn ddiogel. Mae nifer o gynlluniau lleol o’r fath yn bodoli eisoes. Yr ydym yn sôn yn aml bod plant a phobl ifanc yn gynyddol yn ordew, yn gorweddian o gwmpas y tŷ yn gwneud dim a bod eu diddordebau’n golygu eu bod yn eistedd yn llonydd am oriau.
In terms of health promotion, it is important that children have access to safe and convenient play areas. Many local schemes of this type already exist. We often say that children and young people are becoming increasingly obese, that they lie around the house doing nothing and that their interests lead them to sit still for hours.
Dywedwyd bod mynd allan i chwarae yn hawl sylfaenol. Beth, felly, am blant sy’n byw mewn fflatiau heb erddi a lle nad oes meysydd chwarae cyfagos? Sut y bydd y Gweinidog yn sicrhau bod digon o feysydd chwarae diogel ar gael, yn enwedig yn yr ardaloedd mwyaf difreintiedig? Beth a wneir â’r arian a glustnodwyd?
It has been stated that going out to play is a fundamental right. What, therefore, about children who live in flats without gardens and where there are no playgrounds in the immediate vicinity? How will the Minister ensure that sufficient safe playgrounds are available, particularly in the most disadvantaged areas? What will be done with the money that has been earmarked?
As you said, play is important in terms of children’s physical wellbeing. Ensuring that children have access to safe playgrounds is an important theme in our play policy. Last year, we invested £2 million in refurbishing local authority playgrounds, which was a significant contribution to local authorities. We foresee that play will rise up the agenda. That also plays a part in community regeneration. The money is also for play schemes and opportunities provided through the voluntary sector. Play must be considered in all community policy developments. The Welsh Assembly Government and local government must ensure that play rises to the top of the agenda because, as you rightly say, it is vital that children are encouraged to make the most of play opportunities, rather than developing sedentary lifestyles which will lead to ill health and, if combined with poor nutrition, obesity.
Fel y dywedasoch, mae chwarae’n bwysig o ran lles corfforol plant. Mae sicrhau mynediad ar gyfer plant i feysydd chwarae diogel yn thema bwysig yn ein polisi chwarae. Y llynedd, gwnaethom fuddsoddi £2 filiwn mewn adnewyddu meysydd chwarae awdurdodau lleol, a oedd yn gyfraniad pwysig i’r awdurdodau lleol. Rhagwelwn y bydd chwarae’n codi’n uwch ar yr agenda. Mae hynny’n chwarae rhan hefyd mewn adfywio cymunedol. Mae’r arian ar gyfer cynlluniau a chyfleoedd chwarae a ddarperir drwy’r sector gwirfoddol hefyd. Rhaid ystyried chwarae ym mhob datblygiad polisi cymunedol. Rhaid i Lywodraeth Cynulliad Cymru a llywodraeth leol sicrhau bod chwarae’n codi i ben yr agenda oherwydd, fel y dywedasoch, mae’n hollbwysig y caiff plant eu hannog i wneud y gorau o’u cyfleoedd chwarae, yn hytrach na datblygu ffyrdd o fyw eisteddol a fydd yn arwain at iechyd gwael ac, o’u cyfuno â diffyg maeth, gordewdra.
Will you join me in congratulating Cardiff County Council’s children’s play services section for winning a diversity award, which I was pleased to present to it a few weeks ago? It received the award for its work in providing suitable play opportunities for children from black and ethnic minority communities. It is important to identify the obstacles to community play provision, particularly for children in deprived areas and those from black and minority ethnic communities. Will you do everything possible to ensure continued funding for Cardiff council’s children’s play services section so that it can continue to provide this vital resource for children?
A wnewch chi ymuno â mi i longyfarch is-adran gwasanaethau chwarae plant Cyngor Sir Caerdydd am ennill gwobr amrywiaeth, yr oeddwn yn falch o’i chyflwyno iddi ychydig wythnosau’n ôl? Derbyniodd y wobr am ei gwaith wrth ddarparu cyfleoedd chwarae addas i blant o gymunedau croenddu a lleiafrifol ethnig. Mae’n bwysig nodi’r rhwystrau i ddarpariaeth chwarae gymunedol, yn enwedig i blant mewn ardaloedd difreintiedig a’r sawl o gymunedau croenddu a lleiafrifol ethnig. A wnewch bob dim a allwch i sicrhau y bydd y cyllid i is-adran gwasanaethau chwarae plant cyngor Caerdydd yn parhau fel y gall barhau i ddarparu’r adnodd hollbwysig hwn i blant?
That is a good example of how play has risen to the top of the agenda, particularly in the context of diversity and the needs of black and ethnic minority communities in your constituency. We must recognise that the Cymorth funding enables every local authority to invest in play opportunities. It works alongside projects such as Sure Start, which also includes play and support for children and parents in terms of play opportunities. The funding that Cardiff receives through Cymorth will support that important provision.
Mae hynny’n enghraifft dda o’r modd y mae chwarae wedi codi i ben yr agenda, yn enwedig yng nghyd-destun amrywiaeth ac anghenion cymunedau croenddu a lleiafrifol ethnig yn eich etholaeth. Rhaid inni gydnabod bod cyllid Cymorth yn galluogi pob awdurdod lleol i fuddsoddi mewn cyfleoedd chwarae. Mae’n gweithio ochr yn ochr â phrosiectau fel Cychwyn Cadarn, sydd hefyd yn cynnwys chwarae a chymorth i blant a rhieni o ran cyfleoedd chwarae. Bydd y cyllid y mae Caerdydd yn ei dderbyn drwy Cymorth yn cynorthwyo’r ddarpariaeth bwysig honno.
I congratulate the Minister. I think that this is the first occasion in the Assembly’s history where a Cabinet statement is longer than the policy it advocates. It is difficult to scrutinise what the Minister said; it is like trying to examine the Lord’s Prayer. We all hope it will come to pass, but there are few milestones by which we can measure the policy’s achievement. I therefore hope that we will have a Cabinet statement on the action plan when it is produced as well as, perhaps, a debate. This is an essential aspect of public policy. From my time working for the United Nations International Children’s Emergency Fund, I know of the deleterious effect on children of not having adequate play opportunities in a safe environment. That is, an environment that is physically safe, not liable to cause accidents and not menaced by people who would prey on children or foster drugs upon them. There are real issues here; we are dealing with those who, generally, cannot speak up for themselves. We should take this seriously. However, this is just the calling card, and we will examine what the Minister, or her successor, does with the implementation of this policy.
Llongyfarchaf y Gweinidog. Credaf mai hwn yw’r tro cyntaf yn hanes y Cynulliad i ddatganiad Cabinet fod yn hwy na’r polisi y mae’n ei argymell. Mae’n anodd archwilio’r hyn a ddywedodd y Gweinidog; mae fel ceisio archwilio Gweddi’r Arglwydd. Yr ydym oll yn gobeithio y bydd yn digwydd, ond ychydig o gerrig milltir sydd inni allu mesur cyflawniad y polisi. Gan hynny, gobeithiaf y cawn ddatganiad Cabinet ar y cynllun gweithredu pan gynhyrchir ef, yn ogystal â dadl, efallai. Mae hon yn agwedd hollbwysig ar bolisi cyhoeddus. Ers fy nghyfnod yn gweithio i Gronfa Argyfwng Ryngwladol Plant y Cenhedloedd Unedig, gwn am yr effaith niweidiol ar blant o beidio â chael digon o gyfleoedd i chwarae mewn amgylchedd diogel, sef amgylchedd sy’n ffisegol ddiogel, nad yw’n dueddol i beri damweiniau ac nad yw’n cael ei fygwth gan bobl a fyddai’n cam-drin plant neu’n gorfodi cyffuriau arnynt. Mae materion o bwys gwirioneddol yma; yr ydym yn trafod rhai nad ydynt, gan mwyaf, yn gallu codi llais drostynt eu hunain. Dylem gymryd hyn o ddifrif. Fodd bynnag, dim ond cerdyn ymweld yw hwn, a byddwn yn archwilio’r hyn a wnaiff y Gweinidog, neu ei holynydd, wrth weithredu’r polisi hwn.
You have put it in a nutshell, David. It is vital that we raise these issues in the Assembly at the outset of strategy development. Today’s statement was one on the principle, and it is important that the Assembly hears, embraces and endorses it. When I announced the policy at the Spirit of Adventure play conference in Cardiff on 12 June, many delegates from England were envious to hear that Wales has had a play grant for the last three years. We have invested in play and have placed a play policy at the top of our agenda. People are turning to Wales to look at our statement of principle. I believe that the UK Government has now announced that it will develop a play strategy, and it is interested in the Welsh experience.
Yr ydych wedi’i ddweud yn gryno, David. Mae’n hollbwysig ein bod yn codi’r materion hyn yn y Cynulliad ar ddechrau datblygu’r strategaeth. Yr oedd y datganiad heddiw’n ymwneud â’r egwyddor, ac mae’n bwysig bod y Cynulliad yn ei chlywed, ei choleddu a’i chadarnhau. Pan gyhoeddais y polisi yng nghynhadledd chwarae ‘Spirit of Adventure’ yng Nghaerdydd ar 12 Mehefin, yr oedd llawer o’r cynrychiolwyr o Loegr yn genfigennus o glywed y bu gan Gymru grant chwarae ers tair blynedd. Yr ydym wedi buddsoddi mewn chwarae ac wedi rhoi polisi chwarae ar ben ein hagenda. Mae pobl yn troi at Gymru i edrych ar ein datganiad o egwyddor. Credaf fod Llywodraeth y DU wedi cyhoeddi bellach y bydd yn datblygu strategaeth chwarae, ac mae’n ymddiddori yn y profiad yng Nghymru.
It is important to demonstrate, as I did in my statement, how play is a cross-cutting issue. That is why we recognise that this strategy has to cover the health and social care, education, environment and transport portfolios. I hope that Members will take this forward and take an interest in the strategy’s development.
Mae’n bwysig dangos, fel y gwneuthum yn fy natganiad, fod chwarae’n fater trawsbynciol. Dyna pam y cydnabyddwn fod rhaid i’r strategaeth hon ymdrin â phortffolios iechyd a gofal cymdeithasol, addysg, yr amgylchedd a thrafnidiaeth. Gobeithiaf y bydd yr Aelodau’n bwrw ymlaen â hyn ac yn ymddiddori yn natblygiad y strategaeth.
I welcome the development of this policy and the principles outlined today. These will need to be backed up by a coherent strategy and financial resources to make them a reality for children and young people throughout the principality. In doing that, how do you intend to encourage people, at a national and local level, to take on board the views of children and young people when discussing the provision that is to be made for them? It is all too easy to assume that we know what opportunities children and young people want, but our predilection for a slide is perhaps one that they would not share; they might prefer a half-pipe in a local playground. The re-provision of play equipment is also important. Local authorities throughout Wales, if they are anything like Powys County Council, are dismantling play equipment that has become old and too dangerous to use. That equipment is not being replaced in many areas. It is important to ensure that young people have the opportunity to play outside and unsupervised, despite what are sometimes the over-egged threats of such activity. Also, how will you ensure that planning permission is honoured? I know of at least four recently-built housing estates in my constituency that originally had designated play areas as part of their planning permission applications, but which were later amended so that the play areas were replaced with profit-making houses—to the detriment of the young residents of the estates. How can we use the planning system to ensure that playgrounds are built where they are supposed to be built?
Croesawaf ddatblygu’r strategaeth hon a’r egwyddorion a amlinellwyd heddiw. Bydd yn rhaid eu hategu â strategaeth gydlynol ac adnoddau ariannol i’w gwireddu ar gyfer plant a phobl ifanc ledled y dywysogaeth. Wrth wneud hynny, sut yr ydych yn bwriadu annog pobl, ar lefel genedlaethol a lleol, i ystyried barn plant a phobl ifanc wrth drafod y ddarpariaeth ar eu cyfer? Digon hawdd cymryd ein bod yn gwybod beth yw’r cyfleoedd y mae plant a phobl ifanc am eu cael, ond efallai na fyddent yn rhannu ein hoffter ni o’r sleid; efallai y byddai’n well ganddynt gael lle i ddefnyddio byrddau sgrialu mewn mewn maes chwarae lleol. Mae hefyd yn bwysig ailddarparu offer chwarae. Mae awdurdodau lleol ledled Cymru, os ydynt yn debyg i Gyngor Sir Powys, yn datgymalu offer chwarae sydd wedi mynd yn rhy hen ac yn rhy beryglus i’w defnyddio. Ni roddir offer yn eu lle mewn sawl ardal. Mae’n bwysig sicrhau cyfle i bobl ifanc gael chwarae yn yr awyr agored heb oruchwyliaeth, er gwaethaf y gorbwyslais weithiau ar beryglon gweithgaredd o’r fath. Hefyd, sut y byddwch yn sicrhau y cedwir at ganiatiâd cynllunio? Gwn am o leiaf bedair ystâd dai a godwyd yn ddiweddar yn fy etholaeth yr oedd lleoedd chwarae dynodedig yn rhan o’r ceisiadau am ganiatâd cynllunio ar eu cyfer yn wreiddiol, ond a newidiwyd yn ddiweddarach fel bod tai i wneud elw yn cymryd lle’r lleoedd chwarae—er anfantais i drigolion ifanc yr ystadau. Sut y gallwn ddefnyddio’r system gynllunio i sicrhau y codir meysydd chwarae lle y maent i fod i gael eu codi?
On supported play, as Jane knows, play schemes offer children and their parents a fantastic service during the long summer holidays. However, this year’s new inspection regime placed a huge burden upon those operating playschemes. For instance, play leaders were asked to submit details of the nature of the flooring of the centres in which play activities were taking place, as well as a policy on how they evaluated children’s progress. While such an inspection regime is necessary for permanent childcare provision, I am sure you agree that it is not necessary for a week or a fortnight-long play opportunity on the Gurnos estate in Ystradgynlais.
Ynghylch chwarae â chymorth, fel y gŵyr Jane, mae cynlluniau chwarae’n cynnig gwasanaeth gwych i blant a’u rhieni yn ystod gwyliau hir yr haf. Fodd bynnag, yr oedd cyfundrefn arolygu newydd eleni’n rhoi baich aruthrol ar y sawl a oedd yn gweithredu’r cynlluniau chwarae. Er enghraifft, gofynnwyd i’r arweinyddion chwarae gyflwyno manylion am natur lloriau’r canolfannau chwarae, yn ogystal â pholisi ar sut yr oeddent yn gwerthuso cynnydd plant. Er bod angen cyfundrefn arolygu o’r fath ar gyfer darpariaeth gofal plant barhaol, yr wyf yn sicr y cytunwch nad oes angen hynny ar gyfer cyfle chwarae wythnos neu bythefnos o hyd ar ystâd y Gurnos yn Ystradgynlais.
Finally, will you comment on the use of toy libraries, particularly for children with learning disabilities and difficulties? Specialised toys and play equipment can be prohibitively expensive for parents, but toy libraries afford a fantastic opportunity for children to gain access to such toys.
Yn olaf, a wnewch sylw am y defnydd o lyfrgelloedd teganau, yn enwedig ar gyfer plant sydd ag anableddau ac anawsterau dysgu? Mae teganau ac offer chwarae arbenigol yn gallu bod yn afresymol o ddrud i rieni, ond mae llyfrgelloedd teganau’n cynnig cyfle gwych i blant gael chwarae â theganau o’r fath.
Those are all key points, which will be considered when we develop the strategy in partnership. We foresee that Play Wales will play a key role in that partnership, as will local government. The Assembly is committed to listening to children and young people: it is a strong theme in our policies, and will feature in the development of this strategy. Play Wales has already engaged with children and young people. The conference I spoke at in June was called the ‘Spirit of Adventure’ and this play policy is about reclaiming a balance in terms of children having access to play facilities in our communities. On planning restrictions and regulations, that goes back to the fact that this policy covers not only my portfolio but the planning and environment portfolio also. We must reintroduce play space in urban and rural developments, and Sue Essex, as the Minister with responsibility for planning, will be concerned about that.
Mae’r holl bwyntiau hynny’n allweddol, a chânt eu hystyried pan ddatblygwn y strategaeth mewn partneriaeth. Rhagwelwn y bydd Chwarae Cymru’n chwarae rhan allweddol yn y bartneriaeth honno, fel y bydd llywodraeth leol. Mae’r Cynulliad wedi ymrwymo i wrando ar blant a phobl ifanc: mae’n thema gref yn ein polisïau, a bydd rhan iddi yn natblygiad y strategaeth hon. Mae Chwarae Cymru wedi bod mewn cysylltiad â phlant a phobl ifanc eisoes. Enw’r gynhadledd y bûm yn ei hannerch ym Mehefin oedd ‘Spirit of Adventure’ ac mae’r polisi chwarae hwn yn ymwneud ag adfer cydbwysedd yng nghyd-destun y mynediad gan blant i gyfleusterau chwarae yn ein cymunedau. O ran cyfyngiadau a rheoliadau cynllunio, mae hynny’n mynd yn ôl at y ffaith bod y polisi hwn yn ymwneud nid yn unig â’m portffolio i ond â phortffolio cynllunio a’r amgylchedd hefyd. Rhaid inni ailgyflwyno lleoedd i chwarae mewn datblygiadau trefol a gwledig, a bydd Sue Essex, fel y Gweinidog â’r cyfrifoldeb dros gynllunio, yn ymboeni ynghylch hynny.
On the Care Standards Inspectorate for Wales and the impact of new regulations on standards, again we need to strike the right balance between risks and safeguards. The regulations and play standards were subject to considerable consultation; all organisations in the sector were consulted. We must now ensure that they are implemented flexibly: I have asked the care standards inspectorate to be flexible in its approach. We must ensure safeguards, but the implementation of the regulations can be sensitive in terms of assessing the reality of the local situation as well as our future needs.
Ynghylch Arolygiaeth Safonau Gofal Cymru ac effaith y rheoliadau newydd ar safonau, unwaith eto rhaid inni gadw’r ddysgl yn wastad rhwng risgiau a dulliau diogelu. Bu cryn ymgynghori ar y rheoliadau a’r safonau chwarae; ymgynghorwyd â’r holl gyrff yn y sector. Rhaid inni sicrhau’n awr y cânt eu gweithredu’n hyblyg: yr wyf wedi gofyn i’r arolygiaeth safonau gofal gymryd agwedd hyblyg. Rhaid inni ofalu bod dulliau diogelu ar gael, ond gall y dull o weithredu’r rheoliadau fod yn sensitif o ran asesu realiti’r sefyllfa leol yn ogystal â’n hanghenion at y dyfodol.
Finally, toy libraries have played an important role; they are a key feature of Sure Start schemes. Toy libraries—and the story sacks that we talked about—give parents and children access to play opportunities. Through Cymorth funding, local partnerships can influence spending on particular projects, such as toy libraries, to safeguard them.
Yn olaf, mae llyfrgelloedd teganau wedi chwarae rhan bwysig; maent yn elfen allweddol o gynlluniau Cychwyn Cadarn. Mae llyfrgelloedd teganau—a’r sachau storïau y soniwyd amdanynt—yn cynnig cyfleoedd chwarae i rieni a phlant. Drwy gyllid Cymorth, gall partneriaethau lleol ddylanwadu ar y gwario ar brosiectau penodol, fel llyfrgelloedd teganau, i’w diogelu.
I wish to raise a point of order relating to this statement. Is it appropriate for me to do so now or later? I apologise for any confusion.
Dymunaf godi pwynt o drefn sy’n ymwneud â’r datganiad hwn. A yw’n briodol imi wneud hynny’n awr neu’n ddiweddarach? Ymddiheuraf am unrhyw ddryswch.
Dafydd Elis-Thomas The Presiding Officer spoken in English p. 31
Dafydd Elis-Thomas Y Llywydd siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 31
Order. I received notice of a point of order from you five minutes before the start of Plenary. I do not regard that as due notice. I will not take the point of order now, as we are in the middle of a statement.
Trefn. Cefais rybudd o bwynt o drefn gennych bum munud cyn dechrau’r Cyfarfod Llawn. Nid wyf yn ystyried hynny’n rhybudd priodol. Ni chymeraf y pwynt o drefn yn awr, gan ein bod ar ganol datganiad.
Minister, I had intended to ask you about the plan that accompanies this project, but as that question has been asked I will move on. Will you join me in congratulating Caerphilly County Borough Council on the reopening—ahead of schedule—of many playgrounds that had to be closed? As the administration came into power, it was faced with a Royal Society for the Prevention of Accidents report condemning many playgrounds as unsafe.
Weinidog, yr oeddwn wedi bwriadu’ch holi ynghylch y cynllun sy’n cyd-fynd â’r prosiect hwn, ond gan fod y cwestiwn hwnnw wedi’i ofyn symudaf ymlaen. A wnewch chi ymuno â mi i longyfarch Cyngor Bwrdeistref Sirol Caerffili ar ailagor—yn gynt na’r disgwyl—lawer o feysydd chwarae y bu’n rhaid eu cau? Pan ddaeth y weinyddiaeth i rym, yr oedd yn gorfod wynebu adroddiad gan y Gymdeithas Frenhinol er Atal Damweiniau a oedd yn datgan bod llawer o feysydd chwarae’n anniogel.
Furthermore, I attended an open-day launch at an eco-park in Cefn Fforest in Islwyn today. That park is a regenerated tip site and, interestingly, has 19 of the 22 trees that represent the Celtic ogham alphabet—
Yn ogystal â hynny, bûm yn bresennol mewn cyfarfod lansio yn ystod diwrnod agored mewn parc ecolegol yng Nghefn Fforest yn Islwyn heddiw. Mae’r parc hwnnw ar safle lle y bu tomen sbwriel ac, yn ddigon diddorol, mae ynddo 19 o’r 22 o goed sy’n cynrycholi’r wyddor ogam Geltaidd—
Dafydd Elis-Thomas The Presiding Officer spoken in English p. 32
Dafydd Elis-Thomas Y Llywydd siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 32
Order. This is a question on a statement. Your group has already asked a question that had a preamble. I cannot allow another one.
Trefn. Cwestiwn am ddatganiad yw hwn. Mae’ch grŵp eisoes wedi gofyn cwestiwn a rhagymadrodd iddo. Ni allaf ganiatáu un arall.
The investment in playgrounds by Caerphilly County Borough Council is welcome. That investment is as a result of extra money from the Welsh Assembly Government, starting with that £1 million in 2000. Funding has increased year on year, with £2.8 million available for this financial year, and £2 million available for the refurbishment of local authority partnerships. That is a demonstration of our working together in partnership.
Mae’r buddsoddiad mewn meysydd chwarae gan Gyngor Bwrdeistref Sirol Caerffili i’w groesawu. Mae’r buddsoddiad hwnnw’n ganlyniad i arian ychwanegol oddi wrth Lywodraeth Cynulliad Cymru, yn dechrau â’r £1 filiwn honno yn 2000. Mae’r cyllid wedi cynyddu’r naill flwyddyn ar ôl y llall, ac mae £2.8 miliwn ar gael ar gyfer y flwyddyn ariannol hon, a £2 filiwn ar gael i adnewyddu partneriaethau awdurdodau lleol. Mae hynny’n brawf ein bod yn gweithio gyda’n gilydd mewn partneriaeth.
Point of order. I raise this under Standing Orders No. 6.8 and 7.8. I seek your guidance on whether we need additional reference to the misuse of Assembly time under Standing Order No. 7.8. The Government has tabled a statement on play policy today, which was interesting and important, although it does not say anything concrete. At the same time, the Minister for Education and Lifelong Learning has told the press that she cannot make an important funding announcement to the Assembly due to a lack of time available. Perhaps Standing Order No. 7.8 needs to be reviewed so that we do not have this misuse of Assembly time in future.
Pwynt o drefn. Codaf hyn o dan Reolau Sefydlog Rhifau 6.8 a 7.8. Ceisiaf eich cyfarwyddyd ynghylch a oes arnom angen cyfeiriad ychwanegol at gamddefnyddio amser y Cynulliad o dan Reol Sefydlog Rhif 7.8. Mae’r Llywodraeth wedi cyflwyno datganiad ar bolisi chwarae heddiw, a oedd yn ddiddorol ac yn bwysig, er nad yw’n dweud dim pendant. Ar yr un pryd, mae’r Gweinidog dros Addysg a Dysgu Gydol Oes wedi dweud wrth y wasg na all roi datganiad pwysig ar ariannu i’r Cynulliad oherwydd prinder amser. Efallai fod angen adolygu Rheol Sefydlog Rhif 7.8 fel na chawn y camddefnydd hwn o amser y Cynulliad yn y dyfodol.
Dafydd Elis-Thomas The Presiding Officer spoken in English p. 32
Dafydd Elis-Thomas Y Llywydd siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 32
Order. There has been no misuse of Assembly time. The statement was given in Government time with due notice to me.
Trefn. Ni fu camddefnyddio ar amser y Cynulliad. Rhoddwyd y datganiad yn ystod amser y Llywodraeth wedi iddi roi rhybudd priodol i mi.
Datganiad Busnes
Business Statement
Carwyn Jones The Business Minister spoken in English p. 33
Carwyn Jones Y Trefnydd siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 33
There are two changes to forthcoming business. The First Minister will make a statement tomorrow on his visit to Johannesburg. That has been brought forward from 30 October. Also, the title of Jane Hutt’s statement tomorrow will not now be ‘Physical Punishment of Children’, which may give the wrong impression, but ‘Supporting Children and Parents in Wales’. [Laughter.] It is the same statement. The original title was slightly off-message perhaps. Tomorrow’s debate on the Health Service Commissioner for Wales’s annual report has been postponed until 30 October. As for the next three weeks’ business, my draft statement is as shown on the Chamberweb under supporting documents. Finally, in the Business Committee meeting this morning, the Deputy Presiding Officer determined that, under Standing Order No. 22.5, the following Orders need not be referred to Subject Committees for extended consideration: the Local Authorities (Operation of Different Executive or Alternative Arrangements) (Wales) Regulations 2002; the Abortion (Amendment) (Wales) Regulations 2002; and the Fees for Enquiries (Standard Daily Amount) (Wales) Regulations 2002.
Mae dau newid i’r busnes sydd i ddod. Bydd Prif Weinidog Cymru’n gwneud datganiad yfory ar ei ymweliad â Johannesburg. Dygwyd hwnnw ymlaen o 30 Hydref. Hefyd, nid ‘Cosbi Plant yn Gorfforol’ fydd teitl datganiad Jane Hutt yfory bellach, gan y gallai hynny roi camargraff, ond ‘Cefnogi Plant a Rhieni yng Nghymru’. [Chwerthin.] Yr un datganiad ydyw. Yr oedd y teitl gwreiddiol braidd yn gamarweiniol o bosibl. Mae’r ddadl a oedd i’w chynnal yfory ar adroddiad blynyddol Comisiynydd Gwasanaeth Iechyd Cymru wedi’i gohirio hyd 30 Hydref. Am fusnes y tair wythnos nesaf, mae fy natganiad drafft fel y’i dangosir ar we’r Siambr o dan ddogfennau ategol. Yn olaf, yng nghyfarfod y Pwyllgor Busnes y bore yma, penderfynodd y Dirprwy Lywydd, o dan Reol Sefydlog Rhif 22.5, nad oes angen cyfeirio’r Gorchmynion canlynol at Bwyllgorau Pwnc i’w hystyried yn helaethach: Rheoliadau Awdurdodau Lleol (Gweithredu Trefniadau Gweithredol neu Amgen Gwahanol) (Cymru) 2002; Rheoliadau Erthylu (Diwygio) (Cymru) 2002; a Rheoliadau Ffïoedd Ymchwiliadau (Swm Dyddiol Safonol) (Cymru) 2002.
Dafydd Elis-Thomas Y Llywydd siaradwyd yn Gymraeg t. 33
Dafydd Elis-Thomas The Presiding Officer spoken in Welsh p. 33
Yr wyf wedi derbyn rhybudd o wrthwynebiad i’r datganiad busnes. A oes 10 Aelod yn cefnogi’r gwrthwynebiad? Gwelaf fod. Felly, o dan Reol Sefydlog Rhif 5.4, galwaf ar y Trefnydd i gynnig y derbynnir y datganiad busnes. Gwahoddaf un Aelod o bob grŵp plaid i ymateb yn fyr cyn i’r Trefnydd ymateb ac y galwaf bleidlais.
I have received notice of an objection to the business statement. Do 10 Members support the objection? I see that they do. Therefore, under Standing Order No. 5.4, I call the Business Minister to propose that the business statement be adopted. I will invite one Member from each party group to respond briefly before the Minister replies and I call a vote.
Following our request last week in the Chamber and in the Business Committee that you arrange a debate in Government time on the possibility of military offensives against Iraq, I remind you, Minister, that the majority of Welsh public opinion is firmly against such action. It is appropriate for you now to provide time for a debate. We do not accept that a war needs to begin before we can debate it and, therefore, the Plaid Cymru group cannot support this week’s business statement.
Ar ôl ein cais yr wythnos diwethaf yn y Siambr ac yn y Pwyllgor Busnes ichi drefnu dadl yn amser y Llywodraeth ar y posibilrwydd o ymosodiadau milwrol ar Irac, yr wyf yn eich atgoffa, Weinidog, fod y rhan fwyaf o’r cyhoedd yng Nghymru yn bendant yn erbyn gweithredu o’r fath. Mae’n briodol yn awr ichi ddarparu amser ar gyfer dadl. Nid ydym yn derbyn bod rhaid i ryfel ddechrau cyn y gallwn ei drafod ac, felly, ni all grŵp Plaid Cymru gefnogi datganiad busnes yr wythnos hon.
While I do not agree with Jocelyn Davies—I do not know what chance she has had to sample opinion on this, and there has not been any action in Iraq in any case—we also have concerns about the business statement. We will vote against it, but not for the same reason. I have previously raised with the Business Minister, when he was deputising for the Deputy First Minister and First Minister, concerns about the lack of statements. He ducked and dived on the issue of the social services review. We are not happy that there will not be a statement on that. There is a feeling across the Assembly that there should be a statement or a debate on social services in Cardiff. That is not to prejudge the outcome of the situation. We also need a statement on Allied Steel and Wire. Whatever the sensitivities involved, Members will respect them. We also need a statement on A-level marking. It is not just a question of people sitting A-levels in Wales: Welsh universities have attracted some of the 1,900 students who have had their exams re-marked, and there are possibly others who want to come to university in Wales and cannot. That must be considered.
Er nad wyf yn cytuno â Jocelyn Davies—ni wn pa gyfle a gafodd i samplu’r farn ar hyn, ac ni fu unrhyw weithredu yn erbyn Irac beth bynnag—mae gennym ninnau bryderon ynghylch y datganiad busnes. Byddwn yn pleidleisio yn ei erbyn, ond nid am yr un rheswm. Codais bryderon o’r blaen gyda’r Trefnydd, pan oedd yn dirprwyo dros Ddirprwy Brif Weinidog Cymru a Phrif Weinidog Cymru, ynghylch diffyg datganiadau. Osgôdd hyn ar fater yr adolygiad o wasanaethau cymdeithasol. Nid ydym yn fodlon na fydd datganiad ar hynny. Mae ymdeimlad ar draws y Cynulliad y dylid cael datganiad neu ddadl ar wasanaethau cymdeithasol yng Nghaerdydd. Nid yw hynny’n golygu rhagfarnu canlyniad y sefyllfa. Mae arnom angen datganiad hefyd ar Allied Steel and Wire. Beth bynnag fo’r materion tringar sydd ynglŷn â hynny, gwnaiff yr Aelodau eu parchu. Mae arnom angen datganiad hefyd ar farcio Safon Uwch. Mae’n fwy na mater o bobl yn sefyll arholiadau Safon Uwch yng Nghymru: mae prifysgol Cymru wedi denu rhai o’r 1,900 o fyfyrwyr y cafodd eu harholiadau eu hailfarcio, ac mae eraill o bosibl sydd am ddod i brifysgol yng Nghymru ac sy’n methu â gwneud hynny. Rhaid ystyried hynny.
Above all is the new Assembly building: the issue has been raised in Business Committee and I have also raised it with the First Minister and with the Finance Minister’s office. It is six months since a project management team was appointed, and we have not heard anything since. There are rumours about increased costs, difficulties in finding an architect, and architects refusing to take on the project. We need a statement on this. I do not want to prejudge the issue, as Members have different views on it; you are aware of my view on this. However, we need to know what the status of the project is. There was speculation that a statement would be made today or tomorrow. We need a thoroughgoing statement on the situation—from the Finance Minister or, possibly, the First Minister—to clear the air. We have many legitimate concerns on these issues that have not been aired since we returned from recess and which are widely shared in the Assembly. Therefore, we will vote against the business statement.
Yn fwy na dim y mae adeilad newydd y Cynulliad: codwyd y mater yn y Pwyllgor Busnes ac yr wyf wedi ei godi hefyd gyda Phrif Weinidog Cymru a chyda swyddfa’r Gweinidog Cyllid. Mae chwe mis ers penodi tîm rheoli prosiect, ac ni chlywsom ddim ers hynny. Mae sïon ynghylch costau uwch, anawsterau wrth ddod o hyd i bensaer, a phenseiri’n gwrthod ymgymryd â’r prosiect. Mae arnom angen datganiad ar hyn. Nid wyf am ragfarnu’r mater, gan fod barn Aelodau arno’n wahanol; yr ydych yn gwybod am fy marn i ar hyn. Fodd bynnag, rhaid inni gael gwybod beth yw sefyllfa’r prosiect. Yr oedd dyfalu y byddai datganiad heddiw neu yfory. Mae arnom angen datganiad cynhwysfawr ar y sefyllfa—gan y Gweinidog Cyllid neu, o bosibl, Prif Weinidog Cymru—i glirio’r aer. Mae gennym lawer o bryderon dilys ynghylch y materion hyn sydd heb eu gwyntyllu ers inni ddychwelyd ar ôl y toriad ac a rennir gan lawer yn y Cynulliad. Felly, pleidleisiwn yn erbyn y datganiad busnes.
Carwyn Jones The Business Minister spoken in English p. 35
Carwyn Jones Y Trefnydd siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 35
The position on Iraq has not changed. War has not begun and it is not imminent. Were that to be so, our stance might change, given the precedents that have been set. We have heard this argument week after week. If anything, the situation is quieter now than it has been during recent weeks and months. Therefore, it is not appropriate to hold a debate at this stage. If we did so, we would be open to the criticism that our debate was irrelevant to the present situation and that we were no more than a talking shop. If war were imminent or if hostilities had started and Welsh soldiers were involved, our stance might be different. However, we will consider that if and when it happens.
Ni fu newid yn y sefyllfa ynghylch Irac. Nid yw rhyfel wedi dechrau ac nid yw’n agos. Pe byddai, efallai y byddai ein safbwynt yn newid, o ystyried y cynseiliau a osodwyd. Clywsom y ddadl hon wythnos ar ôl wythnos. Os rhywbeth, mae’r sefyllfa’n dawelach yn awr nag yr oedd yn yr wythnosau a’r misoedd diwethaf. Felly, nid yw’n briodol cynnal dadl ar hyn o bryd. Pe byddem yn gwneud hynny, byddem yn agored i’r feirniadaeth bod ein dadl yn amherthnasol i’r sefyllfa bresennol ac nad oeddem yn fwy na siop siarad. Pe byddai rhyfel yn agos neu os oedd ymladd wedi dechrau a milwyr o Gymru’n cymryd rhan, efallai y byddai ein safbwynt yn wahanol. Fodd bynnag, ystyriwn hynny os, a phan, fydd yn digwydd.
The raft of statements that Nick requested involve issues that have already been raised in the Chamber. Allied Steel and Wire has been discussed during questions, as have social services in Cardiff. It is a novel argument that re-marking A-level examination papers affects Welsh universities. I do not think that it is of sufficient importance to justify a debate, and I suspect that any debate would not be confined to our universities but rather used as a stick to beat others outside Wales and to discuss issues that are outside our province. Therefore, there are no plans to meet the demands of the other parties.
Mae’r doreth o ddatganiadau a geisiodd Nick yn ymwneud â materion a godwyd eisoes yn y Siambr. Trafodwyd Allied Steel and Wire yn ystod cwestiynau llafar heddiw, a gwasanaethau cymdeithasol yng Nghaerdydd yr un modd. Dadl newydd yw bod ailfarcio papurau arholiad Safon Uwch yn effeithio ar brifysgolion Cymru. Ni chredaf ei fod yn ddigon pwysig i gyfiawnhau cynnal dadl, ac yr wyf yn amau na fyddai dadl ar hyn yn ymwneud â’n prifysgolion yn unig ond, yn hytrach, y câi ei defnyddio fel ffon i guro eraill y tu allan i Gymru ac i drafod materion sydd y tu allan i’n maes. Felly, nid oes bwriad i ateb gofynion y pleidiau eraill.
DerbyniwydAdopted O blaidFor 29 YmatalAbstain 0 Yn erbynAgainst 22
Derbyniwyd y cynnig.
Motion carried.
Sut y pleidleisiodd yr AelodauHow Members voted
O blaidFor (29)
- Lorraine Barrett
- Mick Bates
- Peter Black
- Eleanor Burnham
- Rosemary Butler
- Christine Chapman
- Jane Davidson
- Andrew Davies
- Ron Davies
- Sue Essex
- Delyth Evans
- Brian Gibbons
- Janice Gregory
- John Griffiths
- Christine Gwyther
- Alison Halford
- Edwina Hart
- Jane Hutt
- Ann Jones
- Carwyn Jones
- Peter Law
- Huw Lewis
- Val Lloyd
- Tom Middlehurst
- Lynne Neagle
- Alun Pugh
- Karen Sinclair
- Gwenda Thomas
- Kirsty Williams
Yn erbynAgainst (22)
- Nick Bourne
- Alun Cairns
- Cynog Dafis
- David Davies
- Glyn Davies
- Janet Davies
- Jocelyn Davies
- William Graham
- Brian Hancock
- Pauline Jarman
- David Ian Jones
- Elin Jones
- Gareth Jones
- Helen Mary Jones
- Ieuan Wyn Jones
- David Lloyd
- David Melding
- Jonathan Morgan
- Peter Rogers
- Janet Ryder
- Rhodri Glyn Thomas
- Phil Williams
Pwyntiau o Drefn
Points of Order
Point of order. I am disappointed at the Business Minister’s response to the request for a debate on Iraq. In view of the Government’s reluctance to debate this and test public opinion in Wales, Plaid Cymru will table a motion for next week’s minority party debate so that the Assembly can debate this important issue.
Pwynt o drefn. Yr wyf wedi fy siomi gan ymateb y Trefnydd i’r cais am ddadl ar Irac. Yng ngolwg amharodrwydd y Llywodraeth i drafod hyn a rhoi prawf ar y farn gyhoeddus yng Nghymru, bydd Plaid Cymru’n cyflwyno cynnig ar gyfer dadl plaid leiafrifol yr wythnos nesaf fel y gall y Cynulliad drafod y mater pwysig hwn.
Dafydd Elis-Thomas The Presiding Officer spoken in English p. 36
Dafydd Elis-Thomas Y Llywydd siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 36
That is not a point of order for me. However, you are entitled to table a motion on this issue for your minority party debate, and I look forward to that debate.
Nid yw hwnnw’n bwynt o drefn i mi. Fodd bynnag, mae gennych hawl i gyflwyno cynnig ar y mater hwn ar gyfer eich dadl plaid leiafrifol, ac edrychaf ymlaen at y ddadl honno.
Point of order. In my question to the Minister, I failed to declare an interest as the Union of Construction, Allied Trades and Technicians supports my constituency party.
Pwynt o drefn. Yn fy nghwestiwn i’r Gweinidog, methais â datgan buddiant gan fod yr Undeb Crefftau Cysylltiedig ag Adeiladau a Thechnegwyr yn cefnogi fy mhlaid etholaeth.
Dafydd Elis-Thomas The Presiding Officer spoken in English p. 37
Dafydd Elis-Thomas Y Llywydd siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 37
Thank you for declaring that interest, as is appropriate.
Diolch i chi am ddatgan y buddiant hwnnw, fel y bo’n briodol.
Pwynt o drefn. Mae hwn yn ymwneud â’r Rheolau Sefydlog ar fusnes a gweithdrefnau’r Cynulliad, a’r ffaith bod y Cynulliad yn sefydliad dwyieithog lle y dylai Aelodau allu defnyddio’r ddwy iaith yn gydradd. Cyfeiriaf at sefyllfa a gododd yn y Pwyllgor Amaethyddiaeth a Datblygu Gwledig yr wythnos diwethaf, sydd â goblygiadau i weithrediadau’r Cynulliad yn gyffredinol. Gofynnodd Cynog Dafis gwestiwn i’r Gweinidog yn y Gymraeg ar y drefn o sicrhau diogelwch bwyd sydd wedi’i fewnforio. Gofynnodd am ei farn fel Gweinidog, ond atebodd drwy fynegi ei farn bersonol a barn ei blaid wleidyddol. Soniodd hefyd am weithgareddau yr oedd ei blaid wedi bod yn ymhel â hwy yn Nhŷ’r Arglwyddi. Pan gafodd ei herio am hyn, dywedodd ei fod wedi cael cais am ei farn bersonol. Pan ddywedwyd wrtho mai gofyn am ei farn fel Gweinidog oedd Cynog Dafis, dywedodd efallai ei fod wedi cael ei gamarwain gan y cyfieithiad.
Point of order. This concerns the Standing Orders on Assembly business and procedures, and the fact that the Assembly is a bilingual institution in which Members should be able to use both languages on an equal basis. I refer to a situation that arose in the Agriculture and Rural Development Committee last week that has implications for the Assembly’s proceedings in general. Cynog Dafis asked a question of the Minister in Welsh on how the safety of imported food is secured. The Minister was asked for his view as a Minister, but he responded by expressing his personal view and that of his political party. He also spoke of activities in which his party had been involved in the House of Lords. When challenged on this, he said that he had been asked for his personal opinion. When he was then told that Cynog Dafis had asked for his view as a Minister, he said that he might have been misled by the translation.
Gwrandawais ar y cwestiwn a’i gyfieithiad ar y tâp ac mae’r cyfieithydd yn dweud yn benodol, ‘ministerial view’. Os yw Gweinidogion yn defnyddio cyfieithwyr fel bwch dihangol i osgoi ateb cwestiynau, neu i geisio esgusodi eu hunain pan maent yn gweud camgymeriad gwleidyddol elfennol, bydd yn eithriadol o anodd i Aelodau fel Cynog Dafis a minnau, sydd yn ceisio cynnal ein gweithgareddau yn y Cynulliad drwy gyfrwng y Gymraeg. Hoffwn gael eich barn, Lywydd, ar hyn. A fyddech yn cytuno, er mwyn sicrhau bod y ddwy iaith yn gwbl gydradd, y dylid rhagdybio bod y cyfieithu yn gwbl gywir nes y gellid profi bod hyn yn anghywir?
I listened to the question and its translation on the tape and the translator specifically said ‘ministerial view’. If Ministers use translators as scapegoats to avoid answering questions or to try to excuse themselves when they make an elementary political mistake, it makes life exceptionally difficult for Members like Cynog Dafis and myself who endeavour to work through the medium of Welsh in the Assembly. I would like your view on this, Presiding Officer. Do you agree that, in order to ensure that both languages are equal in the Assembly, it should be assumed that the translation is correct until it can be proven otherwise?
Dafydd Elis-Thomas Y Llywydd siaradwyd yn Gymraeg t. 37
Dafydd Elis-Thomas The Presiding Officer spoken in Welsh p. 37
Yr wyf am alw Cadeirydd y Pwyllgor ar y pwynt hwn cyn imi ymateb.
I will call the Chair of the Committee on this point before I respond.
Further to that point of order, as Chair of the Agriculture and Rural Development Committee, I believe that the issue was handled appropriately in the Committee. I agree that Ministers and Members should not attack those who cannot respond. That applies to all Assembly officials, including translators. On this occasion, I believe that the Minister made a mistake, but I detected a rare—coming from him—tone of self-deprecation in his response, which I did not believe to be a criticism of the translation service. A straight reading of his words might give that impression, but tone is important. I do not believe that it was a matter of direct criticism but rather of the Deputy First Minister adopting, albeit unsuccessfully, a self-deprecating tone—and it is unusual to combine the words ‘Deputy First Minister’ with the words ‘self-deprecating’. I believe that the matter was handled well in Committee and, as Chair, I would be disappointed if, Presiding Officer, you were to decide to employ a policy that I may find difficult to implement.
Ymhellach i’r pwynt o drefn hwnnw, fel Cadeirydd y Pwyllgor Amaethyddiaeth a Datblygu Gwledig, credaf fod y mater wedi’i drafod yn briodol yn y Pwyllgor. Cytunaf na ddylai’r Gweinidogion a’r Aelodau ymosod ar rai na allant ymateb. Mae hynny’n berthnasol i holl swyddogion y Cynulliad, gan gynnwys y cyfieithwyr. Y tro hwn, credaf fod y Gweinidog wedi camgymryd, ond synhwyrais oslef hunanfychanol anarferol—gan mai ef oedd yn siarad—yn ei ymateb, nad oedd yn feirniadaeth ar y gwasanaeth cyfieithu, yn fy marn i. Gellid cael yr argraff honno o ddarllen ei eiriau’n syth, ond mae goslef yn bwysig. Ni chredaf ei fod yn fater o feirniadaeth uniongyrchol ond yn hytrach o Ddirprwy Brif Weinidog Cymru yn mabwysiadu goslef hunanfychanol, er yn aflwyddiannus—ac mae’n anarferol cyfuno’r geiriau ‘Dirprwy Brif Weinidog Cymru’ â’r gair ‘hunanfychanol’. Credaf fod y mater wedi’i drin yn dda yn y Pwyllgor ac, fel y Cadeirydd, byddwn yn siomedig, Lywydd, pe byddech yn penderfynu arfer polisi y gallwn ei gael yn anodd ei weithredu.
Ymhellach i’r pwynt hwnnw o drefn, cyflwynwyd y rheoliadau yr ydym ar fin eu trafod, a’r memorandwm sydd yn cydfynd â hwy, yn uniaith Saesneg. I’r rhai ohonom sydd yn ceisio trafod y materion hyn yn y Gymraeg, yr anhawster yw eu bod yn cynnwys termau newydd, a bod rhaid inni gytuno ar y geiriau i’w defnyddio.
Further to that point of order, the regulations that we are about to discuss, and the memorandum that accompanies them, have been tabled in English only. For those of us who try to discuss these issues through the medium of Welsh, the difficulty is that they include new terminology, and agreement must be reached on the terminology to be used.
Dafydd Elis-Thomas Y Llywydd siaradwyd yn Gymraeg t. 38
Dafydd Elis-Thomas The Presiding Officer spoken in Welsh p. 38
I ateb y pwynt hwnnw yn gyntaf, mae’r Gorchymyn hwnnw i’w gymeradwyo o dan Reol Sefydlog Rhif 24, sydd yn ymwneud â Gorchmynion y Cyfrin Gyngor neu is-ddeddfwriaeth a gyflwynir gan un o Weinidogion y Goron: hynny yw, is-ddeddfwriaeth sydd yn deillio o Lywodraeth y Deyrnas Unedig.
To answer that point first, that Order is to be approved under Standing Order No. 24, which deals with Orders in Council or subordinate legislation submitted by Ministers of the Crown: that is, subordinate legislation emanating from the UK Government.
Derbyniaf nad oes llawer o ddewis gennym ynglŷn â chael y rheoliadau hynny yn y Saesneg yn unig, ond beth am y memorandwm sy’n egluro’r rheoliadau?
I accept that we have little choice about those regulations being in English only, but what of the memorandum that clarifies the regulations?
Dafydd Elis-Thomas Y Llywydd siaradwyd yn Gymraeg t. 38
Dafydd Elis-Thomas The Presiding Officer spoken in Welsh p. 38
Gan eich bod wedi codi’r mater, ystyriaf ef ymhellach. Nid oes rheidrwydd cyfreithiol ynglŷn â chyfieithu deddfwriaeth nad yw’n deillio o’r Cynulliad Cenedlaethol hyd yn hyn, ac nid yw hynny wedi bod yn flaenoriaeth. Fodd bynnag, am resymau yn ymwneud â gwaith y Cynulliad a’i effeilonrwydd fel corff dwyieithog, os oes angen cyfieithu dogfennau eglurhaol, ystyriaf a ddylai hynny ddod yn flaenoriaeth. Fel y gwyddoch, mae datganiad polisi iaith drafft yn cael ei baratoi ar hyn o bryd ynglŷn â Swyddfa’r Llywydd a gweithdrefnau’r Cynulliad, a byddwn yn derbyn eich sylw i’w ystyried wrth drafod y polisi.
As you have raised the matter, I will consider it further. We are not required by law to translate legislation that does not emanate from the National Assembly as yet, and it has not been a priority. However, if, for reasons to do with the Assembly’s work and its effectiveness as a bilingual body, there is a need to translate explanatory documents, I will consider whether that should become a priority. As you know, a draft language policy statement is currently being prepared concerning the Presiding Office and Assembly procedures, and I would accept your point as a matter to be considered in discussing the policy.
Yr wyf yn ddiolchgar i Rhodri Glyn Thomas am roi rhybudd ymlaen llaw imi o’r pwynt o drefn hwn, sydd yn ymwneud â mater sensitif. I ateb Cadeirydd y Pwyllgor Amaethyddiaeth a Datblygu Gwledig, ni fyddwn am ymyrryd yn rhyddid nac urddas unrhyw Gadeirydd Pwyllgor i gyflawni ei waith yn briodol. Mae materion o drefn yn codi ym mhob Pwyllgor, a dyfarnwyd eisoes eu bod yn faterion i’r Cadeiryddion ymdrin â hwy. Mae Panel Cadeiryddion y Pwyllgorau, a gadeirir yn fedrus gan y Dirprwy Lywydd, yn trafod pob mater yn ymwneud â gweithgaredd Pwyllgorau. Felly, y panel hwnnw fyddai’r fforwm mwyaf addas i drafod y mater hwn ymhellach, pe ystyrid bod angen gwneud hynny.
I am grateful to Rhodri Glyn Thomas for giving me prior notice of this point of order, which deals with a sensitive issue. To answer the Chair of the Agriculture and Rural Development Committee, I would not want to impinge on the freedom or status of any Committee Chair to carry out his or her work appropriately. Matters of order are raised in every Committee, and I have ruled previously that they are for Chairs to deal with. The Panel of Committee Chairs, skilfully chaired by the Deputy Presiding Officer, discusses all issues relating to Committee business. Therefore, that would be the most appropriate forum to discuss this matter further, were that deemed necessary.
Efallai y byddai o gymorth i’r Cynulliad pe bawn i’n dweud sut y byddwn i’n ymdrin â mater o’r fath. Yr egwyddor, o safbwynt Cyfarfod Llawn y Cynulliad, yw ei bod yn hanfodol bod popeth a ddywedir yn glywadwy, sy’n golygu bod yn rhaid i’r sain weithio bob amser, a bod yr hyn a ddywedir yn Gymraeg yn cael ei gyfieithu, sy’n golygu bod yn rhaid i’r dechnoleg gyfieithu weithio a bod yn rhaid i’r cyfieithiad ei hun fod yn glywadwy ac yn ddealladwy. Wedi hynny, wrth gwrs, mae’r hyn a ddywedir yn cael ei gofnodi. Er mwyn i weithgaredd y Cynulliad fod mewn trefn, rhaid i’r agweddau hynny i gyd fod ar waith ar yr un pryd. Os perir anhawster, diffyg dealltwriaeth neu gamddealltwriaeth i unrhyw Aelod gan broblem dechnegol sy’n ymwneud â gweithdrefnau’r Cynulliad, byddwn yn falch pe bai’r Aelod hwnnw yn codi pwynt o drefn yn y fan a’r lle. Mae rhyddid i Aelodau dorri ar draws trafodion a gofyn i eiriau nas clywyd neu na ddeallwyd gael eu hailadrodd gan yr Aelod sy’n siarad ac felly gan y cyfieithydd. Dylid gwneud yr un peth os oes unrhyw broblem yn ymwneud â’r sain. Bydd dilyn yr egwyddor honno yn sicrhau bod y sefydliad hwn yn gweithredu’n effeithlon yn y ddwy iaith. Bydd hefyd yn gosod esiampl dda i weddill Cymru ac, os caf i fentro dweud, i rannau eraill o’r byd lle y mae dwyieithrwydd yn norm.
Perhaps it would be of assistance to the Assembly if I were to outline how I would deal with such an issue. The principle, in terms of the Assembly’s Plenary sessions, is that it is vital that every word spoken be audible, which means that the sound system must always be in working order, and that Welsh contributions be translated, which means that the translation equipment must also be in working order and that the translation itself be audible and comprehensible. Plenary sessions are then, of course, recorded. For Assembly proceedings to be in order, those requirements must be met simultaneously. If a technical problem relating to Assembly procedures causes a Member to encounter difficulties or to fail to understand or to misunderstand proceedings, I would be grateful if that Member raised a point of order immediately. Members are free to interrupt proceedings and ask for any words not heard or misunderstood to be repeated by the Member who is speaking and therefore by the translator. The same should be done if there are any problems with the sound. Adhering to that principle will ensure that this institution works effectively in both languages. It will also set a good example to the rest of Wales and, if I may say so, to other parts of the world where bilingualism is the norm.
Ymhellach i’r pwynt hwnnw o drefn, yr wyf yn ddiolchgar am eich datganiad, Lywydd, gan iddo hwyluso ein dealltwriaeth o’r sefyllfa. Fy ngofid i yw y gallai Gweinidog neu Aelod o’r Cynulliad ddefnyddio’r ffaith ein bod yn cyfieithu o un iaith i’r llall—
Further to that point of order, I am grateful for your statement, Presiding Officer, as it enhances our understanding of the situation. My concern is that an Assembly Minister or Member could use the fact that we translate from one language into another—
Dafydd Elis-Thomas Y Llywydd siaradwyd yn Gymraeg t. 40
Dafydd Elis-Thomas The Presiding Officer spoken in Welsh p. 40
Trefn. Yr ydych wedi codi hynny eisoes. Nid oedd yn dda gennyf ei glywed y tro cyntaf, ac nid wyf am ei glywed yn cael ei ailadrodd. Ni chredaf y byddai unrhyw Weinidog nac Aelod yn beirniadu’r gwasanaeth cyfieithu drwy ei ddefnyddio fel rheswm dros fethu ag ateb cwestiwn. Ni allaf ddychmygu’r fath beth yn digwydd.
Order. You have already raised that point. I did not appreciate hearing it the first time and I do not want to hear it repeated. I do not believe that a Minister or Member would criticise the translation service by using it as a reason for failing to answer a question. I could not imagine such a thing happening.
Ond o ran y pwynt—
But in terms of the point—
Dafydd Elis-Thomas Y Llywydd siaradwyd yn Gymraeg t. 40
Dafydd Elis-Thomas The Presiding Officer spoken in Welsh p. 40
Trefn. Yr wyf wedi ymateb, a dyna ddiwedd ar y mater, neu fe fyddwn yma hyd Sul y pys.
Order. I have responded and that is an end to the matter, otherwise we will be here for ever and a day.
Ymhellach i’r pwynt hwnnw o drefn, y broblem yw nad oes cofnod ysgrifenedig llawn o drafodaethau pwyllgorau yn cael ei gynhyrchu. Yr ydym yn ddibynnol felly ar ein dealltwriaeth o’r drafodaeth wrth iddi ddigwydd. Er mwyn i bobl allu defnyddio’r Gymraeg a gwybod bod yr iaith yn cael ei thrin yn yr un modd â’r Saesneg, rhaid inni ddibynnu ar y cyfieithu ar y pryd ac ymddiried ynddo. Yr wyf yn siŵr y cytunech fod y cyfieithu ar y pryd yn y Cynulliad o’r safon uchaf posibl.
Further to that point of order, the problem is that a full written record of Committee proceedings is not produced. We therefore depend upon our understanding of discussions as they occur. So that people can contribute in Welsh and be confident in their own minds that the language is treated on an equal footing with the English language, we must depend upon and trust in the interpretation. I am sure that you would agree that the Assembly’s simultaneous translation service is of the highest order possible.
Dafydd Elis-Thomas Y Llywydd siaradwyd yn Gymraeg t. 40
Dafydd Elis-Thomas The Presiding Officer spoken in Welsh p. 40
Nid wyf am wneud sylw cyhoeddus ar y pwynt hwnnw, ond hoffwn ddweud bod pob gwasanaeth technegol yn y Cynulliad o’r safon uchaf posibl. Yr wyf wedi awgrymu y byddai’n briodol, os oes gofid ynglŷn â defnyddio’r Gymraeg a rhwyddineb dwyieithrwydd yn y Pwyllgorau, i Banel Cadeiryddion y Pwyllgorau drafod y mater hwn. Egwyddor sylfaenol darparu gwasanaeth dwyieithog mewn unrhyw gorff cyhoeddus yw bod yn rhaid i’r gwasanaeth hwnnw fod mor hawdd i’w ddefnyddio â phe na bai yno. Dylai dwyieithrwydd hyrwyddo, nid atal, gweithgaredd.
I do not wish to make a public comment on that point, but I would say that every technical service in the Assembly is of the highest standard possible. I have suggested that it would be appropriate, if Members are concerned about the use of the Welsh language and the extent to which bilingualism is facilitated in Committees, for the Panel of Committee Chairs to discuss this issue. The fundamental principle regarding the provision of a bilingual service in any public organisation is that the service should be as easy to use as if there were no need for it. Bilingualism should promote, not prevent, activities.
Further to that point of order, in case some people outside the Assembly get the wrong impression, I want to make it clear that the translation here is the finest example of Welsh to English simultaneous translation that I have come across. That is a wonderful reflection on the people who make it happen. They are great professionals and we are proud of them. This is translation of the highest order, to which all should aspire, and I pay tribute to the service. [Applause.] I did not mention the Liberal Democrats either, which is why I got applause.
Ymhellach i’r pwynt o drefn hwnnw, rhag ofn i rai y tu allan i’r Cynulliad gael camargraff, dymunaf roi ar ddeall mai’r cyfieithu sydd yma yw’r enghraifft orau o gyfieithu ar y pryd o’r Gymraeg i’r Saesneg imi ddod ar ei draws. Mae hynny’n adlewyrchu’n wych ar y rhai sy’n ei weithredu. Maent yn weithwyr proffesiynol ardderchog ac yr ydym yn ymfalchïo ynddynt. Cyfieithu o’r radd flaenaf yw hyn, a ddylai fod yn uchelgais gan bawb, a thalaf deyrnged i’r gwasanaeth. [Cymeradwyaeth.] Ni soniais am y Democratiaid Rhyddfrydol ychwaith, a dyna pam y gefais y gymeradwyaeth.
Cymeradwyo Rheoliadau Tribiwnlys Anghenion Addysgol Arbennig (Diwygio) 2002
Approval of Special Educational Needs Tribunal (Amendment) Regulations 2002
Jane Davidson The Minister for Education and Lifelong Learning spoken in English p. 41
Jane Davidson Y Gweinidog dros Addysg a Dysgu Gydol Oes siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 41
I propose that
Cynigiaf fod
Jane Davidson The Minister for Education and Lifelong Learning (continued) spoken in English p. 41
Jane Davidson Y Gweinidog dros Addysg a Dysgu Gydol Oes (parhad) siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 41
As Members may recall, the Special Educational Needs Tribunal, an independent body, which operates on an England and Wales basis, was reconstituted on 1 September this year to become the Special Educational Needs and Disability Tribunal or SENDIST. I was pleased that, in July 2002, the Assembly unanimously approved the Special Educational Needs and Diability Tribunal (General Provisions and Disability Claims Procedure) Regulations 2002. Today’s regulations seek to make minor procedural amendments that are required to achieve consistency with the regulations approved in July, and, as a consequence, the implementation of the Special Educational Needs and Disability Act 2001. As certain general provisions relating to the tribunal appear in those regulations approved earlier this year, they have consequently been removed from the Special Educational Needs Tribunal Regulations 2001.
Fel y bydd yr Aelodau’n cofio efallai, ailgyfansoddwyd y Tribiwnlys Anghenion Addysg Arbennig, corff annibynnol sy’n gweithredu yng Nghymru a Lloegr, ar 1 Medi eleni i ddod yn Dribiwnlys Anghenion Addysgol Arbennig ac Anabledd neu SENDIST. Yr oeddwn yn falch bod y Cynulliad, yng Ngorffennaf 2002, wedi rhoi ei gymeradwyaeth unfrydol i’r Rheoliadau Tribiwnlys Anghenion Addysgol Arbennig ac Anabledd (Darpariaethau Cyffredinol a’r Weithdrefn Hawliadau Anabledd) 2002. Mae’r rheoliadau heddiw’n ceisio gwneud mân newidiadau trefniadol sy’n ofynnol i sicrhau cysondeb â’r rheoliadau a gymeradwywyd yng Ngorffennaf ac, o ganlyniad, â gweithrediad Deddf Anghenion Addysgol Arbennig ac Anabledd 2001. Gan fod rhai darpariaethau cyffredinol sy’n ymwneud â’r tribiwnlys yn ymddangos yn y rheoliadau hynny a gymeradwywyd yn gynharach eleni, maent wedi’u dileu o ganlyniad i hynny yn Rheoliadau Tribiwnlys Anghenion Addysgol Arbennig 2001.
Last July, I spoke of my intention, set out in ‘The Learning Country’, to have a stand-alone SEN tribunal for Wales. I confirm that, with the Education Act 2002 having completed its passage through Parliament, the SEN tribunal for Wales will be established in April 2003 and, from September of that year, will hear appeals relating to children who reside in Wales. The regulations before you will apply to the Welsh tribunal from its establishment, and I hope that the Assembly Members will now approve the regulations.
Fis Gorffennaf diwethaf, soniais am fy mwriad, a nodwyd yn ‘Y Wlad sy’n Dysgu’, i gael tribiwnlys anghenion addysgol arbennig ar wahân i Gymru. Yr wyf yn cadarnhau, gan fod Deddf Addysg 2002 wedi cwblhau ei hynt drwy’r Senedd, y caiff y tribiwnlys anghenion addysgol arbennig i Gymru ei sefydlu yn Ebrill 2003 ac y bydd, o fis Medi y flwyddyn honno ymlaen, yn gwrando apeliadau sy’n ymwneud â phlant sy’n byw yng Nghymru. Bydd y rheoliadau sydd o’ch blaen yn berthnasol i dribiwnlys Cymru o adeg ei sefydlu, a gobeithiaf y bydd Aelodau’r Cynulliad yn cymeradwyo’r rheoliadau’n awr.
Mae gennyf un neu ddau o sylwadau a chwestiynau. Nodaf mai rheoliadau ar gyfer Lloegr a Chymru yw’r rhain, er nad oes cyfeiriad at y pŵer newydd o dan y Ddeddf Addysg i sefydlu tribiwnlys ar wahân i Gymru. Bydd y rheoliadau hyn yn berthnasol i’r tribiwnlys Cymreig wedi iddo gael ei sefydlu. Fodd bynnag, yr Adran Addysg a Sgiliau yn Llundain sydd yn gyfrifol am y rheoliadau hyn. A fydd yr adran honno’n parhau i basio rheoliadau ar gyfer Lloegr a Chymru yn y dyfodol? Yn ôl ym mis Gorffennaf, addawodd y Gweinidog:,
I have one or two comments and questions. I note that these regulations are for England and Wales, although there is no reference to the new power under the Education Act to establish a separate tribunal for Wales. These new regulations will be relevant to the Welsh tribunal once it has been established. However, the Department for Education and Skills in London will be responsible for these regulations. Will that department continue to pass regulations for England and Wales in the future? Back in July, the Minister promised:
‘Yn gynnar yn y sesiwn nesaf, byddaf yn cyflawni fy ymrwymiad i gynnal dadl ar gynnig a fydd yn cynnwys sefydlu tribiwnlys Cymreig.’
‘Early in the next session, I will fulfil my undertaking to hold a debate on a motion that will include establishing a Welsh tribunal.’
A oes ganddi unrhyw newydd ar hyn?
Has she any news on that?
Sylwn hefyd bod y Cynulliad yn gwneud cyfraniad o 5 y cant tuag at gostau rhedeg y Tribiwnlys Anghenion Addysgol Arbennig ac Anabledd presennol ar gyfer Cymru a Lloegr. A oes swm blynyddol ar gyfer hyn, ac a oes unrhyw waith wedi ei wneud i gostio sefydlu a rhedeg tribiwnlys i Gymru? Hefyd ym mis Gorffennaf, Weinidog, gwnaethoch bwynt ynglŷn â’r angen i aelodau panel y tribiwnlys feddu ar wybodaeth am blant gydag anghenion arbennig neu anableddau, ynghyd â phrofiad o’r maes.
We also note that the Assembly makes a contribution of 5 per cent towards the running costs of the current Special Educational Needs and Diability Tribunal for Wales and England. Is there an annual sum for this, and has any work been done to cost the establishment and running of such a tribunal for Wales? Also in July, Minister, you made a point about the need for members of the tribunal panel to understand the needs of children with special needs or disabilities, as well as to have experience in the field.
Gofynnais innau bryd hynny pa fesurau a ddefnyddir i sicrhau hynny. A ddefnyddir mesurau positif i sicrhau y bydd unigolion anabl, er enghraifft, yn aelodau o’r paneli? Gobeithiaf y cawn ateb i’r cwestiwn hwnnw. Cyfeiriais eisoes at y ffaith bod y nodiadau yn Saesneg yn unig a diolchaf am eich sylwadau ar hynny, Lywydd.
I asked at that time what measures would be used to ensure that. Will positive measures be used to ensure that disabled individuals, for example, will be panel members? I hope that we will get an answer to that question. I have already referred to the fact that the notes are in English only and I thank you for comments on that, Presiding Officer.
The Welsh Liberal Democrats welcome these amended regulations, and look forward to the creation of a separate SEN tribunal for Wales, as set out in ‘The Learning Country’. We are particularly pleased about the increased rights of parents and children, and understand that this will be an important step forward in the Welsh and English language. Two issues must be addressed. Will you give an undertaking that the whole process of looking at SEN and tribunals will be well understood in schools and particularly by parents? All too often, these regulations, while passed here with good intent, are not presented in a way that the authorities and the schools understand. I am certain that there will be some kind of evaluation and monitoring of these regulations, but will you confirm that and that you will report back on the issue?
Mae Democratiaid Rhyddfrydol Cymru’n croesawu’r rheoliadau diwygiedig hyn, ac yn edrych ymlaen at greu tribiwnlys anghenion addysgol arbennig ar wahân i Gymru, fel y nodwyd yn ‘Y Wlad sy’n Dysgu’. Yr ydym yn arbennig o falch ynghylch yr hawliau mwy a gaiff rhieni a phlant, ac yn deall y bydd hyn yn gam pwysig ymlaen yn y Gymraeg a’r Saesneg. Rhaid ymdrin â dau fater. A wnewch ymgymryd i sicrhau y bydd yr holl broses o ystyried anghenion addysgol arbennig a thribiwnlysoedd yn cael ei deall yn yr ysgolion a chan rieni’n arbennig? Yn rhy aml o lawer, er bod rheoliadau fel y rhain yn cael eu pasio yma gyda bwriad da, ni chânt eu cyflwyno mewn modd sy’n ddealladwy i’r awdurdodau a’r ysgolion. Yr wyf yn sicr y bydd rhyw fath o werthuso a monitro ar y rheoliadau hyn, ond a wnewch gadarnhau hynny ac y gwnewch adrodd yn ôl ar y mater hwn?
We support these provisions, particularly in light of the Special Educational Needs and Disability Act 2001. Much legislation has been made in recent years in relation to tacking disability discrimination and special educational needs, which everyone in the Chamber supports. I draw your attention, Minister, to the provisions of the Disability Discrimination Act 1995. While we support those provisions, they place a considerable burden and responsibility on schools and colleges across Wales to ensure that their premises are up to scratch. Will the Minister consider conducting a review of how schools and colleges have coped with complying with the provisions of that Act? Although those provisions are important, they have substantial budgetary consequences for schools and colleges.
Yr ydym yn cefnogi’r darpariaethau hyn, yn enwedig yng ngolwg Deddf Anghenion Addysgol Arbennig ac Anabledd 2001. Gwnaed llawer o ddeddfwriaeth yn y blynyddoedd diwethaf mewn cysylltiad ag ymladd gwahaniaethu ar sail anabledd ac anghenion addysgol arbennig, y mae pawb yn y Siambr yn ei chefnogi. Tynnaf eich sylw, Weinidog, at ddarpariaethau Deddf Gwahaniaethu ar sail Anabledd 1995. Er ein bod yn cefnogi’r darpariaethau hynny, maent yn rhoi ysgolion a cholegau ledled Cymru dan gryn faich a chyfrifoldeb i sicrhau bod eu hadeiladau’n gystal â’r safon. A wnaiff y Gweinidog ystyried cynnal adolygiad o’r modd y mae ysgolion a cholegau wedi ymdopi â chydymffurfio â darpariaethau’r Ddeddf honno? Er bod y darpariaethau hynny’n bwysig, mae canlyniadau cyllidebol sylweddol iddynt i ysgolion a cholegau.
Jane Davidson The Minister for Education and Lifelong Learning spoken in English p. 44
Jane Davidson Y Gweinidog dros Addysg a Dysgu Gydol Oes siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 44
These regulations are relevant to tribunals in England and Wales in terms of ensuring that they operate on the same basis. We could not have tribunals operating differently in England and in Wales. However, we will have our own tribunal in Wales. I promised that we would have a debate on establishing the tribunal, but we have not commenced that yet. I am keen to have a debate on the commencement Order because, going back to Mick’s point about ensuring that the process is well understood, I want to ensure that Members are fully informed and that as many opportunities as possible are provided for the policy to be stated clearly in the Assembly.
Mae’r rheoliadau hyn yn berthnasol i dribiwnlysoedd yng Nghymru a Lloegr o ran sicrhau eu bod yn gweithredu yn yr un modd. Ni allem gael tribiwnlysoedd a weithredai’n wahanol yng Nghymru ac yn Lloegr. Er hynny, bydd gennym ein tribiwnlys ein hunain yng Nghymru. Addewais y byddem yn cael dadl ar sefydlu’r tribiwnlys, ond nid ydym wedi dechrau hynny eto. Yr wyf yn awyddus i gael dadl ar y Gorchymyn cychwyn oherwydd, gan fynd yn ôl at bwynt Mick am sicrhau bod y broses wedi’i deall, yr wyf am sicrhau bod yr Aelodau’n gwbl gyfarwydd ag ef ac y rhoddir cynifer o gyfleoedd ag y bo modd i ddatgan y polisi’n eglur yn y Cynulliad.
Wales will continue to make a contribution of 5 per cent of the running costs of the tribunal. We had to apportion costs in considering the legislation, but there will not be any additional costs. As the tribunal will only meet the needs of Wales, and will not deal with children from England, it will not travel as much. Of course, the tribunal will travel around Wales: it is important that it is an institution for the whole of Wales, not just a part of it.
Bydd Cymru’n parhau i gyfrannu 5 y cant o gostau rhedeg y tribiwnlys. Bu’n rhaid inni ddosrannu costau wrth ystyried y ddeddfwriaeth, ond ni fydd unrhyw gostau ychwanegol. Gan y bydd y tribiwnlys yn diwallu anghenion Cymru’n unig, ac na fydd yn delio â phlant o Loegr, ni fydd yn teithio gymaint. Wrth gwrs, bydd y tribiwnlys yn teithio o gwmpas Cymru: mae’n bwysig ei fod yn sefydliad i Gymru gyfan, nid i ran ohoni’n unig.
I am keen to ensure that those on the panel have the right skills to deliver the SEN and disability agenda. That will be done in conjunction with the president and the Assembly. We can discuss that nearer to commencement. As regards Mick’s important point about the process being well understood, the Assembly will prepare annual reports to ensure that people are well-informed. We have launched a new code of practice, which covers issues such as statements, and we are keen that parents use that effectively. We continue to promote that code, which also contains guidance on how people should deal with agencies before cases get to tribunal. Our aim is to have as few tribunal cases as possible, because that would mean that the Assembly, in conjunction with schools, the health service and local authorities, would have ensured that the system works effectively and that children are being looked after successfully.
Yr wyf yn awyddus i sicrhau bod y rhai ar y panel yn meddu ar y sgiliau iawn i weithredu’r agenda anghenion addysgol arbennig ac anabledd. Gwneir hynny ar y cyd â’r llywydd a’r Cynulliad. Gallwn drafod hynny’n agosach at y cychwyn. Gyda golwg ar y pwynt pwysig a wnaeth Mick ynghylch deall y broses, bydd y Cynulliad yn paratoi adroddiadau blynyddol i sicrhau y caiff pobl eu hysbysu’n iawn. Yr ydym wedi lansio cod ymarfer newydd, sy’n ymdrin â materion fel datganiadau, ac yr ydym yn awyddus i rieni ddefnyddio hwnnw’n effeithiol. Parhawn i hyrwyddo’r cod hwnnw, sydd hefyd yn cynnwys canllawiau ynghylch y modd y dylai pobl ymdrin ag asiantaethau cyn i achosion gyrraedd tribiwnlys. Ein nod yw cael cyn lleied o achosion tribiwnlys ag y bo modd, oherwydd byddai hynny’n golygu bod y Cynulliad, ar y cyd ag ysgolion, y gwasanaeth iechyd a’r awdurdodau lleol, wedi sicrhau bod y system yn gweithio’n effeithiol a bod y gofal am blant yn llwyddiannus.
On Jonathan’s point on capital, we are examining how much money is needed to ensure that the capital stock—the school buildings in Wales—are fit for purpose by 2010. We have asked all authorities to provide plans for the assets at local level. I struggle with the word ‘assets’ in this context because we know that school buildings are liabilities rather than assets due to a lack of investment in the past. We always ensure that the legislation is fully incorporated in any changes to school buildings and in how the grants allocated to local authorities are used. The Assembly’s education division continuously checks that. I do not want to set up a further review mechanism as we already review matters to ensure that all agreed public expenditure on school buildings complies with legislation.
Ynghylch pwynt Jonathan am gyfalaf, yr ydym yn ymchwilio i weld faint o arian sydd ei angen i sicrhau bod y stoc cyfalaf—yr adeiladau ysgol yng Nghymru—yn addas i’w diben erbyn 2010. Yr ydym wedi gofyn i’r holl awdurdodau ddarparu cynlluniau ar gyfer yr asedau ar lefel leol. Mae’n anodd gennyf ddefnyddio’r gair ‘asedau’ yn y cyd-destun hwn gan y gwyddom mai ymrwymiadau yw adeiladau ysgol yn hytrach nag asedau oherwydd diffyg buddsoddi yn y gorffennol. Yr ydym bob amser yn sicrhau bod y ddeddfwriaeth wedi’i hymgorffori’n llawn mewn unrhyw newidiadau i adeiladau ysgol ac yn y modd y defnyddir y grantiau a ddyrennir i’r awdurdodau lleol. Mae is-adran addysg y Cynulliad yn gwirio hynny’n barhaus. Nid wyf am sefydlu peirianwaith adolygu ychwanegol gan ein bod eisoes yn adolygu’r materion hyn i sicrhau bod yr holl wariant cyhoeddus ar adeiladau ysgol a gytunwyd yn cydymffurfio â’r ddeddfwriaeth.
Point of order. I declare an interest in this matter. In accordance with the regulations governing Members’ interests, I will not take part in this vote.
Pwynt o drefn. Datganaf fuddiant yn y mater hwn. Yn unol â’r rheoliadau sy’n llywodraethu buddiannau’r Aelodau, ni chymeraf ran yn y bleidlais hon.
Cynnig NDM1177 Jane Davidson t. 45
Motion NDM1177 Jane Davidson p. 45
DerbyniwydAdopted O blaidFor 44 YmatalAbstain 0 Yn erbynAgainst 0
Derbyniwyd y cynnig.
Motion carried.
Sut y pleidleisiodd yr AelodauHow Members voted
O blaidFor (44)
- Lorraine Barrett
- Mick Bates
- Peter Black
- Nick Bourne
- Eleanor Burnham
- Rosemary Butler
- Christine Chapman
- Cynog Dafis
- Jane Davidson
- Andrew Davies
- David Davies
- Glyn Davies
- Janet Davies
- Jocelyn Davies
- Ron Davies
- Sue Essex
- Delyth Evans
- William Graham
- Janice Gregory
- John Griffiths
- Brian Gibbons
- Christine Gwyther
- Alison Halford
- Brian Hancock
- Edwina Hart
- Jane Hutt
- Ann Jones
- David Ian Jones
- Elin Jones
- Gareth Jones
- Huw Lewis
- David Lloyd
- David Melding
- Tom Middlehurst
- Jonathan Morgan
- Lynne Neagle
- Alun Pugh
- Jenny Randerson
- Janet Ryder
- Karen Sinclair
- Gwenda Thomas
- Rhodri Glyn Thomas
- Dafydd Wigley
- Phil Williams
Cyllid Llywodraeth Leol (Cymru) Adroddiad Grant Arbennig (Rhif 10) (Cymru) 2002
Approval of the Local Government Finance (Wales) Special Grant Report (No. 10) Wales 2002
Sue Essex The Minister for Environment spoken in English p. 46
Sue Essex Y Gweinidog dros yr Amgylchedd siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 46
I propose that
Cynigiaf fod
Sue Essex The Minister for Environment (continued) spoken in English p. 47
Sue Essex Y Gweinidog dros yr Amgylchedd (parhad) siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 47
This special grant report demonstrates a continuation of our commitment to support local authorities on waste services. Members will remember that the National Assembly issued a special grant of over £600,000 in January to enable local authorities to put in place arrangements for the safe storage and, ultimately, disposal of domestic fridges and freezers, arising as a consequence of an European Commission regulation. The grant, covering the period from January to the end of March, assisted in the management of over 28,000 domestic fridges and freezers.
Mae’r adroddiad grant arbennig hwn yn dangos parhad yn ein hymrwymiad i gynorthwyo awdurdodau lleol ynghylch gwasanaethau gwastraff. Bydd yr Aelodau’n cofio bod y Cynulliad Cenedlaethol wedi rhoi grant arbennig o dros £600,000 yn Ionawr i alluogi’r awdurdodau lleol i roi trefniadau ar waith i storio oergelloedd a rhewgelloedd domestig yn ddiogel a’u gwaredu yn y pen draw, sy’n codi o ganlyniad i reoliad o eiddo’r Comisiwn Ewropeaidd. Mae’r grant, ar gyfer y cyfnod o Ionawr i ddiwedd Mawrth, wedi helpu i drafod dros 28,000 o oergelloedd a rhewgelloedd domestig.
However, local authorities still face additional burdens stemming from the EC regulation, partly because retailer take-back schemes have not recommenced. Therefore, I consider it appropriate to provide further support to ensure the continued safe disposal of domestic fridges and freezers. A sum of £2.4 million is being provided for the period from April 2002 to 31 March 2003. It is allocated according to formula.
Serch hynny, mae’r awdurdodau lleol yn dal i wynebu beichiau ychwanegol sy’n deillio o reoliad y CE, yn rhannol am nad yw cynlluniau derbyn yn ôl yr adwerthwyr wedi ailgychwyn. Gan hynny, ystyriaf ei bod yn briodol darparu cymorth pellach i sicrhau y parheir i waredu oergelloedd a rhewgelloedd domestig yn ddiogel. Darperir swm o £2.4 miliwn ar gyfer y cyfnod o Ebrill 2002 i 31 Mawrth 2003. Fe’i dyrennir yn ôl fformiwla.
I am glad that, since the fridge issue arose towards the end of last year, the private and public sectors have responded to the challenge. We now have two reprocessing facilities in Wales: Sims Recycling Services at Newport and Industrial Plastic Recyclers Ltd in Knighton, Powys. They provide sufficient capacity to deal with the number of fridges likely to need reprocessing in Wales each year.
Yr wyf yn falch, ers i fater yr oergelloedd godi tua diwedd y flwyddyn ddiwethaf, fod y sectorau preifat a chyhoeddus wedi ymateb i’r her. Bellach mae gennym ddau gyfleuster ailbrosesu yng Nghymru: Sims Recycling Services yng Nghasnewydd ac Industrial Plastic Recyclers Cyf yn Nhrefyclo, Powys. Maent yn darparu digon o gapasiti i ddelio â nifer yr oergelloedd y mae’n debygol y bydd angen eu hailbrosesu yng Nghymru bob blwyddyn.
Local authorities have also worked hard to meet the challenges and have now largely cleared their backlog of fridges. They are now processing the fridges as cases arise. I am also pleased that local authorities are working together to develop an all-Wales fridge recycling contract which should save money and deliver greater economies of scale.
Mae’r awdurdodau lleol hwythau wedi gweithio’n galed i ateb yr heriau ac maent bellach wedi clirio eu hôl-groniad o oergelloedd i raddau helaeth. Maent bellach yn prosesu’r oergelloedd fel y mae’r achosion yn codi. Yr wyf hefyd yn falch bod yr awdurdodau lleol yn cydweithio i ddatblygu contract ailgylchu oergelloedd i Gymru gyfan a ddylai arbed arian a rhoi gwell darbodion maint.
The special grant report indicates that funding can be used in relation to collection, transport, storage and disposal. It also provides that local authorities can use the grant to facilitate re-using suitable fridges through partnerships with community and voluntary sector organisations. I am sure that that will be welcome to many such groups involved in social projects where fridge refurbishment plays an important role.
Mae’r adroddiad grant arbennig yn nodi y gellir defnyddio’r arian mewn cysylltiad â chasglu, cludo, storio a gwaredu. Mae hefyd yn rhagamodi y caiff yr awdurdodau lleol ddefnyddio’r grant i hwyluso ailddefnyddio oergelloedd addas drwy bartneriaethau â chyrff yn y sectorau cymunedol a gwirfoddol. Yr wyf yn siŵr y bydd hynny’n dderbyniol gan lawer o grwpiau o’r fath sy’n ymwneud â phrosiectau cymdeithasol lle y mae rôl bwysig i adnewyddu oergelloedd.
The use of the grant will be audited by the Audit Commission and local authorities are asked to provide returns on the numbers of fridges and freezers dealt with. Consideration is also being given to what further support will be made available for 2003-04. I commend the special grant report to you.
Archwilir y defnydd o’r grant gan y Comisiwn Archwilio a gofynnir i’r awdurdodau lleol ddarparu ffurflenni ynnodi nifer yr oergelloedd a rhewgelloedd yr ymdriniwyd â hwy. Rhoddir ystyriaeth hefyd i ba gymorth pellach a ddarperir ar gyfer 2003-04. Cymeradwyaf yr adroddiad grant arbennig i chi.
While supporting this report, we must also recognise that some action on this issue has come late. After all, there was a deadline of 1 January 2002 for the disposal of fridges. It is not so much a case of closing the stable door after the horse has bolted, as closing the fridge doors on the insulating foam as they lie in dumps.
Er fy mod yn cefnogi’r adroddiad hwn, rhaid inni gydnabod hefyd fod rhai o’r camau ar y mater hwn yn hwyr. Wedi’r cwbl, 1 Ionawr 2002 oedd y terfyn amser ar gyfer gwaredu oergelloedd. Nid yw ogymaint yn achos o gau’r drws yn rhy hwyr, ond o gau drysau’r oergelloedd ar yr ewyn insiwleiddio a hwythau’n sefyll ar domennydd.
The grant assists local authorities in managing the 28,000 fridges that they had stored. I noticed that the Minister said that the backlog has been dealt with, and I shall return to that point. She also mentioned two new recycling facilities: I have been reliably informed that there is a third in Gwynedd. The plant at Newport has received Assembly funding, although it may well deal with fridges from other parts of Britain. What priority will be given to fridges from Wales? I do not ask that parochially, but because National Assembly funding has gone into that plant and, therefore, we should get a fair deal from our funding for the people of Wales.
Mae’r grant yn helpu awdurdodau lleol i ymdrin â’r 28,000 o oergelloedd yr oeddent wedi’u storio. Sylwais fod y Gweinidog wedi dweud bod yr ôl-groniad wedi’i drin, a dychwelaf at y pwynt hwnnw. Cyfeiriodd hefyd at ddau gyfleuster ailgylchu newydd: yr wyf wedi cael gwybod, o ffynhonnell ddibynadwy, fod trydydd yng Ngwynedd. Mae’r gwaith yng Nghasnewydd wedi derbyn arian gan y Cynulliad, er ei bod yn ddigon posibl y bydd yn ymdrin ag oergelloedd o rannau eraill o Brydain. Pa flaenoriaeth a roddir i oergelloedd o Gymru? Nid wyf yn gofyn hynny’n blwyfol, ond am fod arian y Cynulliad Cenedlaethol wedi mynd at y gwaith hwnnw ac, felly, dylem gael bargen deg am ein harian i bobl Cymru.
I notice that Powys County Council has an underspend of £23,500—other local authorities also have underspends—apparently because of a lack of recovery and disposal facilities. I hope that that is now being dealt with. They had that underspend and are now getting extra money. I hear that there are still many fridges at the dump at Fforest-fach in Swansea. Can the Minister clarify the current situation with regard to the backlog? It is important to sort this out quickly. This sorry situation was caused by the UK Government spending too long on the exact meaning of the European Union directive instead of taking the action that was needed earlier. Will you raise the issue of the action needed for forthcoming environmental EU directives, for example, the disposal of electrical goods, with the appropriate UK Minister so that this situation is not repeated?
Sylwaf fod Cyngor Sir Powys wedi tanwario £23,500—mae awdurdodau lleol eraill wedi tanwario hefyd—oherwydd diffyg cyfleusterau adfer a gwaredu, yn ôl pob golwg. Gobeithiaf fod hynny’n cael sylw’n awr. Gwnaethant danwario a bellach maent yn cael arian ychwanegol. Clywaf fod llawer o oergelloedd o hyd ar y domen yn Fforest-fach yn Abertawe. A all y Gweinidog roi gwedd eglurach ar y sefyllfa bresennol o ran yr ôl-groniad? Mae’n bwysig datrys hyn yn gyflym. Mae’r sefyllfa druenus hon wedi codi am fod Llywodraeth y DU wedi treulio gormod o amser yn ystyried union ystyr cyfarwyddeb yr Undeb Ewropeaidd yn hytrach na chymryd y camau angenrheidiol yn gynharach. A wnewch godi mater y camau sydd eu hangen ar gyfer cyfarwyddebau amgylcheddol yr UE sydd i ddod, er enghraifft, ar waredu nwyddau trydanol, gyda’r Gweinidog priodol dros y DU fel na fydd y sefyllfa hon yn codi eto?
Yr oeddwn yn falch eich bod wedi gwneud y datganiad hwn heddiw ac eich bod wedi tynnu sylw at gwmni Industrial Plastics Recyclers Cyf yn Nhrefyclo. Mae’r cwmni hwn wedi derbyn arian drwy gynllun grant buddsoddi’r Cynulliad ac oddi wrth Cyllid Cymru i’w gynorthwyo i wneud y gwaith pwysig hwn. Yn sgîl hynny, mae’r cwmni wedi cyflogi tua 15 o weithwyr ychwanegol mewn ardal lle nad oes llawer o swyddi ar gael. Pan fydd y broses yn gweithio’n llawn bydd y cwmni’n cyflogi tua 50 o bobl. Mae hyn, felly, yn dangos llwyddiant y Cynulliad wrth gefnogi cwmnïau lleol mewn ardaloedd lle nad oes llawer o swyddi ar gael, ac yr wyf yn ddiolchgar am eich cefnogaeth, Weinidog, i’r prosiect hwn.
I was pleased that you made this statement today and that you drew attention to Industrial Plastics Recyclers Ltd in Knighton. This company has received funding through the Assembly investment grant scheme and from Finance Wales to assist it in this important work. As a result, the company has employed approximately 15 additional workers in an area where few jobs are available. Once the process is fully operational, the company will employ approximately 50 people. This, therefore, demonstrates the Assembly’s success in supporting local companies in areas where few jobs are available, and I am grateful for your support, Minister, in this project.
I am pleased that the Minister accurately described the burden that these regulations place on local authorities. It is a heavy and expensive burden. The special grant on which we are voting today is an inevitable requirement of the decision taken in Brussels to dictate how we dispose of fridges in this country.
Yr wyf yn falch bod y Gweinidog wedi rhoi disgrifiad manwl o’r baich y mae’r rheoliadau hyn yn ei roi ar yr awdurdodau lleol. Mae’n faich trwm a chostus. Mae’r grant arbennig yr ydym yn pleidleisio arno heddiw’n ofyniad anorfod y penderfyniad a wnaed ym Mrwsel i ddweud wrthym sut y dylem gael gwared ar oergelloedd yn y wlad hon.
I am grateful to you for giving way but your contribution reminds me of a broken old fridge: your door is always open but your light is rarely on. Why do you not for once recognise the contribution of the European Union in cleaning up the fridge mountains and improving the quality of the environment, not just in Wales and the UK, but across the whole of the European Union?
Yr wyf yn ddiolchgar i chi am ildio ond mae’ch cyfraniad yn fy atgoffa o hen oergell sydd wedi torri: mae’ch drws bob amser yn agored ond anaml y bydd eich golau’n gweithio. Pam na wnewch gydnabod am unwaith gyfraniad yr Undeb Ewropeaidd o ran cael gwared â’r mynyddoedd o oergelloedd a gwella ansawdd yr amgylchedd, nid yn unig yng Nghymru a’r DU, ond ledled yr Undeb Ewropeaidd?
That was not a particularly spontaneous contribution. The European Union’s contribution has been in causing a lack of disposal facilities in this country. European regulations have meant three things. First, the people who were involved in the disposal of fridges until a few years ago have lost their jobs and companies. Secondly, as this special grant recognises, millions of pounds are having to be spent on helping local authorities to pay the costs of storing fridges—millions of pounds that could otherwise have been spent on schools or hospitals or bringing jobs into Wales. Your Government now has to spend this money on these regulations because of the European Union’s contribution. However, the real tragedy is not in the loss of jobs or the millions of pounds that we must spend, it is in the fact that until two years ago, those fridges were being packaged and sent to countries in eastern Europe and Africa, Nigeria in particular. They were sold in those countries for £3 or £4 to people who would never have the hard currency to buy a brand new fridge. Those fridges were then used to store medicines, food and baby milk in hot countries. It gave people the opportunity to use the western goods that we take for granted. That opportunity has been taken away, and the environmental argument for its removal is not convincing because chlorofluorocarbons are not present in fridges manufactured over the last few years. Therefore, it is only a small number of fridges that we will—if you like—dispose of correctly, yet the price of doing so has been to deprive millions of people of the western goods that they desperately need.
Nid oedd y cyfraniad hwnnw’n un arbennig o ddigymell. Cyfraniad yr Undeb Ewropeaidd oedd achosi prinder cyfleusterau gwaredu yn y wlad hon. Mae’r rheoliadau Ewropeaidd wedi golygu tri pheth. Yn gyntaf, mae’r bobl a oedd yn ymwneud â gwaredu oergelloedd tan ychydig flynyddoedd yn ôl wedi colli eu swyddi a’u cwmnïau. Yn ail, fel y mae’r grant arbennig hwn yn cydnabod, rhaid gwario miliynau o bunnoedd i helpu’r awdurdodau lleol i dalu costau storio oergelloedd—miliynau o bunnoedd y gallesid eu gwario fel arall ar ysgolion neu ysbytai neu ddod â swyddi i Gymru. Rhaid i’ch Llywodraeth wario’r arian hwn yn awr ar y rheoliadau hyn oherwydd cyfraniad yr Undeb Ewropeaidd. Fodd bynnag, nid colli swyddi neu’r miliynau o bunnoedd y mae’n rhaid inni eu gwario yw’r wir drasiedi, ond y ffaith bod yr oergelloedd hynny, tan ddwy flynedd yn ôl, yn cael eu pacio a’u hanfon i wledydd yn nwyrain Ewrop ac Affrica, a Nigeria’n benodol. Fe’u gwerthid yn y gwledydd hynny am £3 neu £4 i bobl na fyddai ganddynt byth arian parod i brynu oergell newydd sbon. Defnyddid yr oergelloedd hynny wedyn i storio meddyginiaethau, bwyd a llaeth i fabanod mewn gwledydd poeth. Rhoddai gyfle i bobl ddefnyddio’r nwyddau gorllewinol a gymerwn ni’n ganiataol. Dilewyd y cyfle hwnnw, ac nid yw’r ddadl amgylcheddol dros ei ddileu’n un argyhoeddiadol oherwydd ni cheir clorofflworocarbonau mewn oergelloedd a weithgynhyrchwyd dros y blynyddoedd diwethaf. Gan hynny, dim ond nifer fach o oergelloedd a waradwn yn gywir—os caf ei roi felly, ac eto y gost am wneud hynny yw amddifadu miliynau o bobl o’r nwyddau gorllewinol y mae arnynt eu dirfawr angen.
Therefore, it is a disaster, and the Government could see it coming as it had plenty of warning. I raised the issue last October when I said that we would need extra money for this legislation. I also raised it on several other occasions in the Environment, Planning and Transport Committee, and nothing seemed to be done about it. This is not the Assembly’s fault; it is due to a lack of communication between the Westminster Government and the relevant department in Brussels. We must support this regulation today, but it is sad because it is money that could have been better spent. There are two other regulations coming up in Brussels relating to the way in which packaging and electrical materials are disposed of. Both have the potential to cost us many millions more. I suggest that the Minister for Environment considers the effect that these regulations are likely to have on Wales before it is once again too late.
Mae’n drychineb, felly, a gallai’r Llywodraeth ei gweld yn dod gan iddi gael digon o rybudd. Codais y mater fis Hydref diwethaf pan ddywedais y byddai arnom angen arian ychwanegol ar gyfer y ddeddfwriaeth hon. Fe’i codais hefyd sawl gwaith ym Mhwyllgor yr Amgylchedd, Cynllunio a Thrafnidiaeth, ac ni wnaed dim yn ei gylch i bob golwg. Nid bai’r Cynulliad yw hyn; mae’n ganlyniad diffyg cyfathrebu rhwng Llywodraeth San Steffan a’r adrannau perthnasol ym Mrwsel. Rhaid inni gefnogi’r rheoliad hwn heddiw, ond mae’n beth trist gan y gallesid gwario’r arian yn well. Mae dau reoliad arall yn codi ym Mrwsel sy’n ymwneud â’r modd yr ydym yn gwaredu deunydd pacio a deunyddiau trydanol. Gallai’r ddau gostio miliynau lawer yn rhagor i ni. Awgrymaf y dylai’r Gweinidog dros yr Amgylchedd ystyried effaith debygol y rheoliadau hyn ar Gymru cyn iddi fynd yn rhy hwyr eto.
Late or not, Welsh Liberal Democrats support this special grant as there is little doubt that this money is needed. We all agree that fridge mountains are not an option. Like David, we would like to see some of the fridges go to the third world, though only after treatment for ozone depleting substances, and whereby they can be bought cheaply and used for all sorts of projects—from selling ice cream on the streets to storing medicines. This does not just mean dumping unwanted goods on the world’s poorest; rather, it helps them to help themselves. The establishment of a centre capable of processing over 100,000 units a year to deal with the problem is good news. It will hopefully reduce the mountain of fridges waiting to be processed. We feel that there is less of a crisis than the first time this grant was needed. We are confident that the problem is being dealt with. I trust, Minister, that north Wales will continue to benefit from your support.
Yn hwyr neu beidio, mae Democratiaid Rhyddfrydol Cymru’n cefnogi’r grant arbennig hwn gan nad oes fawr o amheuaeth nad oes angen yr arian hwn. Yr ydym oll yn cytuno nad yw mynyddoedd o oergelloedd yn ddewis derbyniol. Fel David, carem weld rhai o’r oergelloedd yn mynd i’r trydydd byd, ond dim ond ar ôl eu trin am sylweddau sy’n dihysbyddu osôn, ac fel y gellir eu prynu’n rhad a’u defnyddio ar gyfer pob math o brosiectau—o werthu hufen iâ ar y stryd i storio meddyginiaethau. Nid dim ond gwthio nwyddau diangen ar bobl dlotaf y byd a olygir gan hynny; yn hytrach, mae’n eu helpu i’w helpu eu hunain. Newydd da yw hwnnw am sefydlu canolfan sy’n gallu prosesu dros 100,000 o unedau’r flwyddyn i ddelio â’r broblem. Gobeithio y bydd yn lleihau’r mynydd o oergelloedd sy’n disgwyl cael eu prosesu. Teimlwn fod llai o argyfwng nag ar yr adeg yr oedd angen y grant hwn y tro cyntaf. Yr ydym yn ffyddiog bod y broblem yn cael sylw. Hyderaf, Weinidog, y bydd y Gogledd yn dal i gael eich cefnogaeth.
Cyfeiriodd Janet Davies at y posibilrwydd o drydedd canolfan brosesu yng Nghymru. Mae sefydlu canolfan o’r fath yn cael ei ystyried ar gyfer Caernarfon. Bydd y ganolfan honno yn ddifyr gan y bydd yn defnyddio technolegau newydd dan batent i wneud defnydd newydd o’r hyn sy’n dod o hen oergelloedd. Pwysaf ar y Gweinidog ynghylch y rheidrwydd i argyhoeddi awdurdodau lleol, sy’n cael gwared ar hen oergelloedd, i ddefnyddio canolfannau o’r fath. Gallant greu gwaith a gwneud defnydd gwerth chweil o’r defnyddiau y mae angen cael gwared arnynt. Yn amlwg, mae angen cymorth ariannol. Fodd bynnag, a ellir rhoi amod ar yr arian? Lle bo modd defnyddio dulliau a all greu cyflogaeth newydd, dylai awdurdodau lleol wneud pob ymdrech i helpu canolfannau ag arnynt angen cymorth.
Janet referred to the possibility of a third processing centre in Wales. The establishment of such a centre is being considered in Caernarfon. That centre will be interesting as it will use patented new technologies to make new use of recovered materials from old fridges. I urge the Minister to persuade local authorities responsible for disposing of fridges, to use such centres. They could create work and make worthwhile use of the materials that must be disposed of. Clearly, funding is needed. However, could conditions be attached to the money? Where it is possible to use methods which may create new employment, local authorities should leave no stone unturned to help centres that need assistance.
Apart from Alun Pugh—whose ill thought-out and scarcely spontaneous contribution was clearly designed for a debate to which we are not party, and was totally inappropriate—we all have concerns, and the impact on the third world is one of them. This directive has scarcely been thought out in terms of its impact on the third world. That point has been made. I thank the Minister for what she has done. I appreciate that it was largely not a problem of the Assembly’s creation. It was a problem of liaison between Government at Westminster and Brussels. It has contributed significantly to jobs in Wales. Mention has been made of the jobs in Industrial Plastics Recyclers Ltd in Knighton. I greatly welcome the jobs there. I have been in close contact with that company and it has complained about the bureaucracy it faced. Can the Minister examine the regulations to see if the process can be streamlined? The company had to use many different agencies and I wonder if one agency could be substituted for all the others to give consent. However, we support these regulations.
Ar wahân i Alun Pugh—yr oedd ei gyfraniad byrbwyll ac o’r braidd yn ddigymell wedi’i fwriadu ar gyfer dadl nad oes gennym ran ynddi, ac yr oedd yn gwbl amhriodol—mae gan bawb ohonom bryderon, ac mae’r effaith ar y trydydd byd yn un ohonynt. Prin bod y gyfarwyddeb hon wedi’i hystyried yn drwyadl o ran ei heffaith ar y trydydd byd. Gwnaed y pwynt hwnnw. Diolchaf i’r Gweinidog am yr hyn a wnaeth. Gwerthfawrogaf nad oedd yn broblem a grewyd gan y Cynulliad i raddau helaeth. Yr oedd yn broblem a oedd yn ymwneud â’r cysylltiad rhwng y Llywodraeth yn San Steffan a Brwsel. Mae wedi cyfrannu’n sylweddol at swyddi yng Nghymru. Cyfeiriwyd at y swyddi yn Industrial Plastics Recyclers Cyf yn Nhrefyclo. Croesawaf y swyddi yno’n fawr. Bûm mewn cysylltiad agos â’r cwmni hwnnw ac mae wedi cwyno am y fiwrocratiaeth a wynebodd. A oes modd i’r Gweinidog edrych ar y rheoliadau i weld a ellir symleiddio’r broses? Bu’n rhaid i’r cwmni ddefnyddio gwahanol asiantaethau a thybed a ellid rhoi un asiantaeth yn lle’r lleill i gyd i roi cydsyniad. Fodd bynnag, cefnogwn y rheoliadau hyn.
Sue Essex The Minister for Environment spoken in English p. 52
Sue Essex Y Gweinidog dros yr Amgylchedd siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 52
On Janet’s point, action was taken as soon as we realised what the situation was. We have worked with local government to do what we can on the ground. Sims Recycling Services in Newport received regional selective assistance, which was primarily for job creation. It did not necessarily contain a provision about taking Wales first. It is my understanding that, due to the realities of geography, it deals with all the fridges in the south Wales area. Underspending has been factored in and carried over; that point has been dealt with. On Janet’s example of possible storage at Swansea, we have sought an up-to-date picture of our current situation. It is much improved, but a few authorities still have several thousand fridges. However, it is not like the mountains of before. The general view is that the emphasis is no longer on storage on any great scale, but a certain amount need to be processed.
Ynghylch y pwynt a wnaeth Janet, cymerwyd camau cyn gynted ag y gwnaethom sylweddoli beth oedd y sefyllfa. Yr ydym wedi gweithio gyda llywodraeth leol i wneud yr hyn a allwn yn y maes. Mae Sims Recycling Services yng Nghasnewydd wedi derbyn cymorth rhanbarthol dewisol, i greu swyddi’n bennaf. Nid oedd o reidrwydd yn cynnwys rhagamod ynghylch delio â Chymru’n gyntaf. Yn ôl yr hyn a ddeallaf, oherwydd realiti’r ddaearyddiaeth, mae’n delio â’r holl oergelloedd yn ardal de Cymru. Mae tanwario wedi’i gynnwys fel ffactor a’i gario drosodd; deliwyd â’r pwynt hwnnw. Ynghylch yr enghraifft a roddodd Janet o’r storio a all fod yn Abertawe, yr ydym wedi ceisio cael y darlun diweddaraf o’n sefyllfa bresennol. Mae wedi gwella’n fawr, ond mae gan ychydig o awdurdodau rai miloedd o oergelloedd o hyd. Fodd bynnag, nid yw’n debyg i’r mynyddoedd a oedd yn bod o’r blaen. Y farn gyffredinol yw nad ar storio i unrhyw raddau y mae’r pwyslais bellach, ond mae angen prosesu rhywfaint.
On Janet’s point about learning from this for the future, I raised this issue at my meeting with Mr Meacher during the summer. I asked for a timetable to be formed so that we have prior warning of what is coming through the system. That will also allow us to make some intelligent guesses about what might come through in the future, making it easier to put the necessary support in place.
Ynghylch y pwynt a wnaeth Janet ynghylch dysgu o hyn ar gyfer y dyfodol, codais y mater hwn yn fy nghyfarfod â Mr Meacher yn ystod yr haf. Gofynnais am lunio amserlen fel y cawn rybudd ymlaen llaw am yr hyn a ddaw drwy’r system. Bydd hynny’n caniatáu inni ddyfalu’n wybodus ynghylch beth a allai ddod drwodd yn y dyfodol, fel ei bod yn haws paratoi’r cymorth angenrheidiol.
On Delyth’s point, I am glad about the situation in Knighton. Creating 15 new jobs in a rural area is important. The private sector’s response to these opportunities in Wales has been encouraging. Yesterday, I visited a small company in Merthyr Tydfil that is recycling plastic. It is expanding because it is responding to a market. Although the regulations are tough, they are being picked up and jobs are being created. That is the success story in Wales. We must make such connections on this issue. What is good for the environment can also be good for the economy. Therefore, I am glad that you mentioned that company, Delyth.
Ynghylch y pwynt a wnaeth Delyth, yr wyf wrth fy modd ynghylch y sefyllfa yn Nhrefyclo. Mae creu 15 o swyddi newydd mewn ardal wledig yn bwysig. Bu ymateb y sector preifat i’r cyfleoedd hyn yng Nghymru’n galonogol. Ddoe, ymwelais â chwmni bach ym Merthyr Tudful sy’n ailgylchu plastig. Mae’n ehangu gan ei fod yn ymateb i farchnad. Er bod y rheoliadau’n llym, mae pobl yn dod i’w deall ac mae swyddi’n cael eu creu. Dyna’r stori lwyddiant yng Nghymru. Rhaid inni wneud cysylltiadau o’r fath ar y mater hwn. Gall yr hyn sy’n dda i’r amgylchedd fod yn dda i’r economi hefyd. Felly, yr wyf yn falch ichi grybwyll y cwmni hwnnw, Delyth.
The issue that Nick raised in relation to the same company is not within my portfolio. The offer letter has now gone; I checked that earlier. However, I accept that small companies, in particular, sometimes complain about what they view as bureaucracy. I am sure that a great deal of it is justified, and I will take up this particular case with my colleague, Andrew Davies.
Nid yw’r mater a gododd Nick mewn cysylltiad â’r un cwmni yn rhan o’m portffolio. Mae’r llythyr cynnig wedi’i anfon bellach; gwiriais hynny’n gynharach. Er hynny, derbyniaf fod cwmnïau bach, yn enwedig, yn cwyno weithiau am yr hyn a ystyriant yn fiwrocratiaeth. Yr wyf yn sicr bod cyfiawnhad dros lawer o hynny, a chodaf y mater penodol hwn gyda’m cyd-aelod o’r Cabinet, Andrew Davies.
On David Davies’s contribution, even though they are a burden, Members should not dismiss the fact that environmental regulations are in place for a purpose. People did not put them in place to be facetious or difficult. Europe has taken a stance in terms of climate change and the steps that need to be taken regarding that issue. We must now pay the cost for previous bad decisions, and this is where sustainable development comes to the fore. I am not suggesting that people in the past made their decisions to be difficult but rather because of ignorance about chemicals, and so on. That is what led to our current situation. The public or private sector must pay for that. The Government has decided that the public sector will shoulder the burden until the recovery system is back in place. You cannot criticise the European Union on that issue, although timescales and how the work is co-ordinated can perhaps be criticised. Implementing these regulations and changing the way we think about the environment on a global scale is important. I am pleased that Europe is leading the world in that regard. Wales and the rest of Europe must face up to their responsibilities.
Ynghylch cyfraniad David Davies, er eu bod yn faich, ni ddylai’r Aelodau ddiystyru’r ffaith bod rheswm dros roi rheoliadau amgylcheddol ar waith. Ni weithredwyd hwy o ran cellwair neu i beri anhawster. Mae Ewrop wedi cymryd safiad o ran y newid yn yr hinsawdd a’r camau y mae’n rhaid eu cymryd mewn cysylltiad â’r mater hwnnw. Rhaid inni bellach dalu’r pris am benderfyniadau gwael yn y gorffennol, a dyma lle y mae datblygu cynaliadwy’n dod i’r amlwg. Nid wyf yn awgrymu bod pobl yn y gorffennol wedi gwneud eu penderfyniadau er mwyn peri anhawster ond am eu bod yn anwybodus ynghylch cemegion ac yn y blaen. Hynny sydd wedi arwain at ein sefyllfa bresennol. Rhaid i’r sector cyhoeddus neu’r sector preifat dalu am hynny. Mae’r Llywodraeth wedi penderfynu y bydd y sector cyhoeddus yn ysgwyddo’r baich hyd nes bydd y system adfer ar waith eto. Ni allwch feirniadu’r Undeb Ewropeaidd ar y mater hwnnw, er y gellid beirniadu’r amserlenni a’r dull o gydlynu’r gwaith o bosibl. Mae gweithredu’r rheoliadau hyn a newid y modd yr ydym yn meddwl am yr amgylchedd yn fyd-eang yn bwysig. Yr wyf yn falch bod Ewrop yn arwain y byd yn hynny o beth. Rhaid i Gymru a gweddill Ewrop wynebu eu cyfrifoldebau.
Yr wyf wedi gwrando yn ofalus arnoch yn cyfeirio at y sector preifat a’r sector cyhoeddus. Mae diffygion yn y berthynas rhwng y ddau sector. Yr wyf yn falch ichi gyfeirio at y ffaith bod eich cyd-Aelod am ystyried hynny. Fodd bynnag, mae busnesau preifat yn bodoli sy’n awyddus i ymgymryd â datblygiadau o’r fath o ran ailgylchu, ond nid ydynt yn cael cefnogaeth llywodraeth leol. Byddwn yn falch pe baech yn ystyried y sefyllfa honno, yn enwedig mewn perthynas â Chonwy.
I have listened carefully to your references to the public and private sectors. There are deficiencies in the relationship between the sectors. I am glad that you referred to the fact that your colleague will consider this. However, some private businesses are keen to undertake this type of development with regard to recycling, but they are not supported by local government. I would be grateful if you could consider that situation, particularly with regard to Conwy.
I would be pleased to follow-up any specific examples that Members drew to my attention; I would be grateful, Gareth, if you could pass on any information that you have. Andrew and I have often discussed how we can match the necessary environmental changes with economic opportunities. There are many good schemes currently operating across Wales, such as the Green Dragon environmental standard initiative. However, let me know if links need to be emphasised further or if paths need to be smoothed.
Byddwn yn falch o fynd ar ôl unrhyw enghreifftiau penodol y mae’r Aelodau’n tynnu i’m sylw; byddwn yn ddiolchgar, Gareth, os gallech drosglwyddo unrhyw wybodaeth sydd gennych. Mae Andrew a minnau wedi trafod yn aml sut y gallwn gyplysu’r newidiadau amgylcheddol angenrheidiol â chyfleoedd economaidd. Mae llawer o gynlluniau da ar waith ar hyn o bryd ledled Cymru, fel menter safon amgylcheddol y Ddraig Wyrdd. Fodd bynnag, rhowch wybod imi os oes angen rhoi pwyslais ychwanegol ar y cysylltiadau neu os oes angen hwyluso llwybrau.
Members commented about how terrible it is that fridges are not sent around the world, but if there are problems with the fridges and if it is not right to use them in this country, it cannot be right to send them across the world.
Dywedodd rhai o’r Aelodau mor ofnadwy ydoedd nad yw oergelloedd yn cael eu hanfon o gwmpas y byd, ond os oes problemau ynghylch yr oergelloedd ac os nad yw’n iawn eu defnyddio yn y wlad hon, ni all fod yn iawn eu hanfon ar draws y byd.
David Davies a gododd—
David Davies rose—
Let me finish, David. If climate change is a global situation, we need to find a way forward. I agree with the sentiments behind David Davies’s comments. However, proper aid packages are needed. I am glad that Clare Short knows what action to take in terms of trying to push through aid packages across the world. Sending deficient commodities, however well intentioned that may be, cannot be the right action to take in the long term. We must ensure that overseas countries receive the proper goods to do the job.
Gadewch imi orffen, David. Os yw’r newid yn yr hinsawdd yn sefyllfa fyd-eang, rhaid inni ganfod ffordd ymlaen. Cytunaf â’r teimladau sy’n sail i sylwadau David Davies. Fodd bynnag, mae angen pecynnau cymorth priodol. Yr wyf yn falch bod Clare Short yn gwybod pa gamau y mae’n rhaid eu cymryd o ran ceisio rhoi pecynnau cymorth ar waith ar draws y byd. Ni all fod yn iawn anfon nwyddau diffygiol, ni waeth pa mor dda yw’r bwriad, fel cam tymor hir. Rhaid inni sicrhau bod gwledydd tramor yn derbyn y nwyddau iawn i wneud y gwaith.
Only usable fridges that might work for another five to 10 years are distributed overseas. People dispose of their fridges for no good reason other than because they want a newer, modern fridge.
Dim ond oergelloedd defnyddiadwy a allai weithio am bump i 10 mlynedd arall sy’n cael eu dosbarthu dramor. Mae pobl yn cael gwared â’u hoergelloedd dim ond am eu bod am gael un modern a mwy newydd.
Fridges no longer contain CFCs, and they have not done so for several years. Therefore, there is no problem with regard to sending fridges overseas other than that fridges containing CFCs cannot be separated from those that do not.
Nid oes CFCs mewn oergelloedd bellach, ac nid oes wedi bod ers rhai blynyddoedd. Felly, nid oes problem o ran anfon oergelloedd dramor heblaw nad oes modd didoli oergelloedd sy’n cynnwys CFCs oddi wrth y rhai nad ydynt yn eu cynnwys.
He has become an expert on the subject.
Mae wedi dod yn arbenigwr ar y pwnc hwn.
You are right. If you were a member of the Environment, Planning and Transport Committee, you would witness the depth of his knowledge on this subject.
Yr ydych yn iawn. Pe byddech yn aelod o Bwyllgor yr Amgylchedd, Cynllunio a Thrafnidiaeth, gwelech mor ddwfn yw ei wybodaeth am y pwnc hwn.
If we have problems cannibalising—I use the word advisedly—fridges in Wales, exporting them to Mozambique or Namibia is not a clever idea, even if they worked for a few more years. Sims Recycling Services does not operate in those countries. Attempting to separate fridges that contain CFCs from those that do not—CFCs are not the only problem—is time consuming and expensive. We might as well just send the money directly to the countries in question, which would enable them to buy the best possible goods.
Os cawn broblemau wrth ganibaleiddio—defnyddiaf y gair yn bwyllog—oergelloedd yng Nghymru, nid yw eu hallforio i Mozambique neu Namibia yn syniad call, hyd yn oed pe gweithient am ychydig flynyddoedd yn rhagor. Nid yw Sims Recycling Services yn gweithredu yn y gwledydd hynny. Mae ceisio didoli oergelloedd sy’n cynnwys CFCs oddi wrth rai nad ydynt yn eu cynnwys—ac nid CFCs yw’r unig broblem—yn waith drud a llafurus. Llawn cystal inni anfon yr arian yn syth at y gwledydd dan sylw, a fyddai’n eu galluogi i brynu’r nwyddau gorau posibl.
Dafydd mentioned the proposed centre in Gwynedd. I recall that I had heard about that, but I do not know enough about it. I would be grateful if you could pass any details to me, Dafydd, and I will follow it up. The principle of providing facilities locally must make sense. However, they must be of sufficient size to enjoy economies of scale. Reducing the transportation distances—a great deal of work is being done in north Wales on this—makes sense.
Cyfeiriodd Dafydd at y ganolfan arfaethedig yng Ngwynedd. Yr wyf yn cofio clywed am hynny, ond nid wyf yn gwybod digon amdano. Byddwn yn ddiolchgar pe gallech drosglwyddo unrhyw fanylion i mi, Dafydd, ac af ar ei ôl. Mae’r egwyddor o ddarparu cyfleusterau’n lleol yn sicr o wneud synnwyr. Fodd bynnag, rhaid iddynt fod yn ddigon mawr i fod â darbodion maint. Peth doeth yw lleihau’r pellteroedd teithio—gwneir llawer o waith ar hyn yn y Gogledd.
I thank Eleanor and other Members for supporting this grant report.
Diolchaf i Eleanor ac i’r Aelodau eraill am gefnogi’r adroddiad grant hwn.
Cynnig NDM1178 Sue Essex t. 56
Motion NDM1178 Sue Essex p. 56
DerbyniwydAdopted O blaidFor 51 YmatalAbstain 0 Yn erbynAgainst 0
Derbyniwyd y cynnig.
Motion carried.
Sut y pleidleisiodd yr AelodauHow Members voted
O blaidFor (51)
- Lorraine Barrett
- Mick Bates
- Peter Black
- Nick Bourne
- Eleanor Burnham
- Rosemary Butler
- Alun Cairns
- Christine Chapman
- Cynog Dafis
- Jane Davidson
- Andrew Davies
- David Davies
- Geraint Davies
- Glyn Davies
- Janet Davies
- Jocelyn Davies
- Ron Davies
- Sue Essex
- Delyth Evans
- William Graham
- Janice Gregory
- John Griffiths
- Brian Gibbons
- Christine Gwyther
- Brian Hancock
- Edwina Hart
- Jane Hutt
- Pauline Jarman
- Ann Jones
- Carwyn Jones
- David Ian Jones
- Elin Jones
- Gareth Jones
- Huw Lewis
- David Lloyd
- Val Lloyd
- Peter Law
- David Melding
- Tom Middlehurst
- Jonathan Morgan
- Lynne Neagle
- Alun Pugh
- Jenny Randerson
- Peter Rogers
- Janet Ryder
- Karen Sinclair
- Gwenda Thomas
- Rhodri Glyn Thomas
- Dafydd Wigley
- Kirsty Williams
- Phil Williams
Daeth y Dirprwy Lywydd i’r Gadair am 3.53 p.m.
The Deputy Presiding Officer took the Chair at 3.53 p.m.
Adroddiad y Pwyllgor Llywodraeth Leol a Thai ar Adfywio Cymunedol
Local Government and Housing Committee Report on Community Regeneration
I propose that
Cynigiaf fod
Gwenda Thomas (parhad) siaradwyd yn Gymraeg ac yn Saesneg t. 57
Gwenda Thomas (continued) spoken in Welsh and English p. 57
Mae’n bleser gennyf gyflwyno adroddiad y Pwyllgor Llywodraeth Leol a Thai, yn dilyn ei adolygiad polisi ar adfywio cymunedol.
in Welsh It is my pleasure to present the Local Government and Housing Committee’s report, following its policy review on community regeneration.
A concerted effort by all agencies is needed to tackle the current level of deprivation and poverty in Welsh communities. Social disadvantage is not restricted to industrial areas, which have experienced economic decline associated with the demise of traditional heavy industry.
yn Saesneg Mae angen cydymdrech gan yr holl asiantaethau i fynd i’r afael â lefel bresennol yr amddifadedd a’r tlodi yng nghymunedau Cymru. Nid yw anfantais gymdeithasol yn gyfyngedig i ardaloedd diwydiannol, a brofodd ddirywiad economaidd o ganlyniad i dranc y diwydiannau trwm traddodiadol.
Rural areas are experiencing similar problems connected to the developing crisis in agriculture. Regardless of the location, social disadvantage and increased poverty results in a decline in the quality of life within many of our communities. Under these circumstances, the Committee did not hesitate to adopt the suggestion that its next policy review, following the completion of that on housing stock transfer, should consider community regeneration. The main focus of its review was the policies and programmes adopted by the National Assembly and its sponsored bodies with a view to making recommendations for streamlining existing programmes and improving delivery arrangements. It was particularly interested in examining the funding of those programmes, and the role of partnerships in their development.
yn Saesneg Mae ardaloedd gwledig yn profi problemau tebyg sy’n gysylltiedig â’r argyfwng cynyddol mewn amaethyddiaeth. Ym mha le bynnag y maent, mae anfantais gymdeithasol a thlodi cynyddol yn arwain at ddirywiad yn ansawdd y bywyd mewn llawer o’n cymunedau. O dan yr amgylchiadau hyn, ni phetrusodd y Pwyllgor cyn derbyn yr awgrym y dylai ystyried adfywio cymunedol yn ei adolygiad polisi nesaf, ar ôl cwblhau’r adolygiad ar drosglwyddo’r stoc dai. Yr oedd yr adolygiad yn canolbwyntio’n bennaf ar y polisïau a’r rhaglenni a fabwysiadwyd gan y Cynulliad Cenedlaethol a’r cyrff y mae’n eu noddi gyda golwg ar wneud argymhellion ar gyfer symleiddio’r rhaglenni presennol a gwella’r trefniadau gweithredu. Ymddiddorodd yn arbennig mewn archwilio’r dull o ariannu’r rhaglenni hynny, a rôl y partneriaethau wrth eu datblygu.
The review was undertaken through a wide-ranging written consultation exercise, oral consultation sessions with key bodies and local practitioners, and a series of visits. On the latter, the Committee was particularly keen to see the work of existing projects, the problems faced in establishing a scheme, development difficulties and lessons to be learned that may have generic application. Organisations as varied as the Welsh Local Government Association and small local groups such as the Rhiwgarn Communities First project, Porth, contributed to the review. Despite the diversity of organisations, several key themes emerged.
yn Saesneg Cyflawnwyd yr adolygiad drwy ymgynghoriad ysgrifenedig cynhwysfawr, sesiynau ymgynghori llafar gyda chyrff allweddol ac ymarferwyr lleol, a chyfres o ymweliadau. O ran yr ymweliadau, yr oedd y Pwyllgor yn arbennig o awyddus i weld gwaith y prosiectau presennol, y problemau a wynebir wrth sefydlu cynllun, anawsterau wrth ddatblygu a’r gwersi a oedd i’w dysgu y gellid eu cymhwyso’n gyffredinol. Cyfrannodd cyrff mor wahanol â Chymdeithas Llywodraeth Leol Cymru a grwpiau bach lleol fel prosiect Rhoi Cymunedau’n Gyntaf Rhiw-garn, y Porth, at yr adolygiad. Er mor amrywiol oedd y cyrff, daeth sawl thema allweddol i’r golwg.
The complexity of the funding programmes was the main theme. Many of the organisations that contributed had complex funding portfolios that drew on a variety of sources. The review identified over 60 funding streams operated by the Assembly Government alone. There is clear need for streamlining and co-ordination and the Committee’s report recommends this.
yn Saesneg Cymhlethdod y rhaglenni ariannu oedd y brif thema. Yr oedd gan lawer o’r cyrff a gyfrannodd bortffolios ariannu cymhleth a oedd yn defnyddio amryw o ffynonellau. Canfu’r adolygiad dros 60 o lifau ariannu a weithredir gan Lywodraeth y Cynulliad yn unig. Mae’n amlwg bod angen symleiddio a chydlynu ac mae adroddiad y Pwyllgor yn argymell hynny.
Apart from the complicated funding structure, the bureaucracy associated with applications was criticised. Removing such barriers will promote regeneration. However, it seems that we are beginning to realise this, as organisations reported that the Assembly Government’s flagship project, Communities First, would seem to be less imposing than some of its predecessors.
yn Saesneg Yn ogystal â’r strwythur ariannu astrus, beirniadwyd y fiwrocratiaeth sy’n gysylltiedig â cheisiadau. Bydd dileu rhwystrau o’r fath yn hybu adfywio. Fodd bynnag, mae’n ymddangos ein bod yn dechrau sylweddoli hynny, gan fod cyrff yn adrodd bod prosiect blaenaf Llywodraeth y Cynulliad, Rhoi Cymunedau’n Gyntaf, yn ymddangos yn llai beichus na rhai o’i rhagflaenwyr.
However, by far the most serious criticism was core funding. Few funding sources provide core funding with the result that many community regeneration organisations find it difficult to maintain core administration staff and premises. We must remember that many well-established community regeneration projects are now service providers in deprived communities and as such will probably never achieve self-sufficiency. We must ensure that those community organisations that are meeting needs not being met by mainstream services continue to receive backing to allow them to continue with this role.
yn Saesneg Er hynny, yr oedd y feirniadaeth fwyaf difrifol o lawer yn ymwneud â chyllid craidd. Ychydig o’r ffynonellau ariannu sy’n darparu cyllid craidd ac o ganlyniad mae llawer o gyrff adfywio cymunedol yn ei chael yn anodd cynnal eu staff gweinyddu craidd a’u hadeiladau. Rhaid inni gofio bod llawer o brosiectau adfywio cymunedol sefydledig yn ddarparwyr gwasanaethau’n awr mewn cymunedau difreintiedig a’i bod yn debygol, gan hynny, na fyddant byth yn dod yn hunangynhaliol. Rhaid inni sicrhau bod y cyrff cymunedol hynny sy’n bodloni anghenion nas diwellir gan y gwasanaethau prif ffrwd yn dal i gael cefnogaeth fel y gallant barhau â’r gwaith hwn.
I spoke earlier about the various funding streams. The Committee’s report recognises that among others, one of the key funding agencies is the Lotteries Commission and that much could be done with such agencies to rationalise funding programmes and build common community regeneration objectives. The Department for Culture, Media and Sport is currently undertaking a consultation exercise, reviewing the distribution of lottery money. I feel sure, and the Local Government and Housing Committee agrees, that its work, in undertaking this review of community regeneration, will be of explicit interest and relevance to the lottery review. As such, I commend it to the Minister for Culture, Sport and the Welsh Language, Jenny Randerson, to be included as part of the Assembly’s contribution to the lottery debate.
yn Saesneg Soniais yn gynharach am y gwahanol lifau ariannu. Mae adroddiad y Pwyllgor yn cydnabod mai un o’r prif asiantaethau ariannu, ymysg eraill, yw’r Comisiwn Loterïau ac y gellid gwneud llawer gydag asiantaethau o’r fath i resymoli rhaglenni ariannu a datblygu amcanion adfywio cymunedol cyffredin. Mae’r Adran dros Ddiwylliant, y Cyfryngau a Chwaraeon yn cynnal ymgynghoriad ar hyn o bryd, gan adolygu’r dosbarthu ar arian loteri. Yr wyf o’r farn, ac mae’r Pwyllgor Llywodraeth Leol a Thai o’r un farn, y bydd ei waith, wrth gynnal yr adolygiad hwn o adfywio cymunedol, yn arbennig o ddiddorol a pherthnasol i’r adolygiad o’r loteri. Gan hynny, fe’i cymeradwyaf i’r Gweinidog dros Ddiwylliant, Chwaraeon a’r Gymraeg, Jenny Randerson, i’w gynnwys yn rhan o gyfraniad y Cynulliad i’r ddadl ar y loteri.
The second major concern of our review was to address the issue of partnership and its working within the overall framework. I am sure that we all agree that community participation in regeneration partnership is essential to the success of many community regeneration projects. Although the sentiment may be universal, achieving the ideal is often more difficult. Community participation must be comprehensive and empowering. It should not be marred by tokenism. Representatives must be seen and feel like equals in a partnership structure that includes statutory, voluntary, private and community representatives. Local ownership of regeneration projects through partnership working can be of major benefit. However, we must not forget the community leadership and community planning functions of local government that gives it capacity to lead the regeneration process especially where community self-organisation is lacking.
yn Saesneg Yr ail fater o bwys mawr gennym yn ein hadolygiad oedd ymdrin â mater partneriaeth a’i gweithrediad o fewn y fframwaith cyffredinol. Yr wyf yn sicr ein bod oll yn cytuno bod cyfranogiad cymunedol mewn partneriaeth adfywio’n hollbwysig i lwyddiant llawer o brosiectau adfywio cymunedol. Er y gallai pawb deimlo felly, mae cyflawni’r ddelfryd yn anos yn aml. Rhaid i gyfranogiad cymunedol fod yn gynhwysfawr a bod yn fodd i alluogi pobl. Ni ddylai gael ei ddifetha gan symboleiddiaeth. Rhaid i gynrychiolwyr gael eu hystyried yn gydradd, a theimlo felly eu hunain, mewn strwythur partneriaeth sy’n cynnwys cynrychiolwyr statudol, gwirfoddol, preifat a chymunedol. Gall perchnogaeth leol ar brosiectau adfywio drwy waith partneriaeth ddod â budd mawr. Er hynny, rhaid inni beidio ag anghofio’r swyddogaethau arweinyddiaeth gymunedol a chynllunio cymunedol sydd gan lywodraeth leol sy’n ei galluogi i arwain y broses adfywio, yn enwedig pan fo diffyg hunandrefnu cymunedol.
There is no doubt that statutory authorities as service providers have a key role to play in the regeneration process. Such bodies must recognise the role and contribution of the voluntary and community sectors when working in partnership. It is essential to harness the knowledge and commitment of community members.
yn Saesneg Nid oes dwywaith nad oes gan yr awdurdodau statudol fel darparwyr gwasanaethau yn y broses adfywio rôl allweddol i’w chwarae. Rhaid i gyrff o’r fath gydnabod rôl a chyfraniad y sectorau gwirfoddol a chymunedol wrth weithio mewn partneriaeth. Mae’n hollbwysig harneisio gwybodaeth ac ymroddiad aelodau’r gymuned.
The final part of the Committee’s terms of reference was to identify further issues that it should address on other aspects of the community regeneration agenda. The principles of partnership working recognise the importance of attempting to involve stakeholders in the design and delivery of programmes, especially in policies to promote social inclusion. However, it must be recognised that whereas such participation is essential to success, it is difficult to promote and develop. Many organisations are concerned about the readiness of communities to take on a major role, especially in areas where there is little or no history of grass root development. The increase in the number of policies demanding community participation only aggravates the situation.
yn Saesneg Y rhan olaf o gylch gorchwyl y Pwyllgor oedd nodi materion pellach y dylai ymdrin â hwy ar agweddau eraill ar yr agenda adfywio cymunedol. Mae egwyddorion gwaith partneriaeth yn cydnabod ei bod yn bwysig ceisio cynnwys y rhanddeiliaid yn y gwaith o gynllunio a gweithredu rhaglenni, yn enwedig mewn polisïau i hyrwyddo cynhwysiant cymdeithasol. Fodd bynnag, rhaid cydnabod, er bod cyfranogiad o’r fath yn hollbwysig i lwyddiant, ei fod yn anodd ei hyrwyddo a’i ddatblygu. Mae llawer o gyrff yn bryderus ynghylch parodrwydd cymunedau i ymgymryd â rôl o bwys, yn enwedig mewn ardaloedd lle nad oes ond ychydig neu ddim traddodiad o ddatblygu ar lawr gwlad. Nid yw’r cynnydd yn nifer y polisïau sy’n gofyn cyfranogiad cymunedol ond yn gwaethygu’r sefyllfa.
Therefore, the Committee is convinced that the next stage of the review should consider raising the capacity of communities to participate in the whole regeneration process. Perhaps the first stage of this would be to forward copies of the Committee’s report to the various community development officers engaged in Communities First projects. They may find some inspiration in its recommendations. If the Minister agrees, I will ask the secretariat to contact the relevant policy division to assist in identifying the various officers.
yn Saesneg Gan hynny, mae’r Pwyllgor yn argyhoeddedig y dylai cam nesaf yr adolygiad ystyried cynyddu gallu cymunedau i gymryd rhan yn y broses adfywio yn ei chyfanrwydd. Efallai mai’r cam cyntaf wrth wneud hynny fyddai anfon copïau o adroddiad y Pwyllgor at y gwahanol swyddogion datblygu cymunedol sy’n ymwneud â phrosiectau Rhoi Cymunedau’n Gyntaf. Efallai y cânt rywfaint o ysbrydoliaeth gan ei argymhellion. Os cytuna’r Gweinidog, gofynnaf i’r ysgrifenyddiaeth gysylltu â’r is-adran bolisi berthnasol i helpu i ganfod y gwahanol swyddogion.
I conclude by saying that I believe that the Committee has produced a good report and has identified several ways in which the barriers to community regeneration can be removed. It has been greatly assisted by the various organisations which have made such high-quality and comprehensive presentations.
yn Saesneg Terfynaf drwy ddweud fy mod yn credu bod y Pwyllgor wedi cynhyrchu adroddiad da ac wedi canfod sawl modd i ddileu’r rhwystrau i adfywio cymunedol. Cafwyd llawer o gymorth i wneud hyn gan y gwahanol gyrff sydd wedi rhoi cyflwyniadau mor rhagorol a chynhwysfawr.
Finally, I thank the special adviser, Professor Dave Adamson, who has assisted the Committee on this project. Professor Adamson is one of the acknowledged leaders in the field of community regeneration and it has been a privilege to work with him. He has been most helpful in guiding the Committee in its deliberations. I also thank Roger Chaffey, Claire Griffiths, Liz Wilkinson and Victoria Paris for their contribution.
yn Saesneg Yn olaf, diolchaf i’r ymgynghorydd arbenigol, yr Athro Dave Adamson, a gynorthwyodd y Pwyllgor yn y prosiect hwn. Cydnabyddir yr Athro Adamson yn arbenigwr blaenllaw ym maes adfywio cymunedol a bu’n fraint gweithio gydag ef. Bu’n gymwynasgar dros ben wrth arwain y Pwyllgor yn ei drafodaethau. Diolchaf hefyd i Roger Chaffey, Claire Griffiths, Liz Wilkinson a Victoria Paris am eu cyfraniad.
I am delighted to present this report to Plenary. No doubt, the Assembly Cabinet will consider the Committee’s recommendations in the context of its overall regeneration strategy. I am sure that Edwina Hart will keep Members informed of those deliberations.
yn Saesneg Yr wyf yn falch iawn i gyflwyno’r adroddiad hwn i’r Cyfarfod Llawn. Mae’n siŵr y bydd Cabinet y Cynulliad yn ystyried argymhellion y Pwyllgor yng nghyd-destun ei strategaeth adfywio gyffredinol. Yr wyf yn sicr y bydd Edwina Hart yn rhoi gwybod i’r Aelodau am yr hyn sy’n digwydd yn y trafodaethau hynny.
John Marek The Deputy Presiding Officer spoken in English p. 61
John Marek Y Dirprwy Lywydd siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 61
I have a list of 15 Members who wish to speak not including the Minister and the Chair of the Committee. Clearly, everyone will not have the opportunity to speak. There will be around 20 minutes for contributions from Members. Therefore, I appeal for brief speeches; the briefer they are, the more people will be able to contribute.
Mae gennyf restr o 15 o Aelodau sy’n dymuno siarad heb gynnwys y Gweinidog a Chadeirydd y Pwyllgor. Mae’n amlwg na chaiff pawb gyfle i siarad. Bydd tua 20 munud ar gyfer cyfraniadau gan yr Aelodau. Apeliaf am areithiau byr; po byrraf y byddont, mwyaf a gaiff gyfrannu.
I add my thanks to the Committee staff, specifically to Dave Adamson for his help during this review. I underline many of the Chair’s comments. Regenerating communities in Wales is fundamental to the Assembly’s work. If the recommendations put forward in this report are taken seriously and put into action, then perhaps the Assembly can start to hope that the downward spiral into poverty that is evident in many of the communities across the length and breadth of Wales will be reversed. Gross domestic product per capita is still at 78 per cent of the average and much lower in some of our more excluded communities.
Ychwanegaf fy niolch i staff y Pwyllgor, ac yn benodol i Dave Adamson am ei gymorth yn ystod yr adolygiad hwn. Ategaf lawer o sylwadau’r Cadeirydd. Mae adfywio cymunedau yng Nghymru’n rhan hanfodol o waith y Cynulliad. Os cymerir yr argymhellion a gyflwynir yn yr adroddiad hwn o ddifrif a’u rhoi ar waith, efallai y gall y Cynulliad ddechrau gobeithio y bydd y ddisgynfa i dlodi a welir mewn llawer o gymunedau ar hyd a lled Cymru’n cael ei gwrthweithio. Mae’r cynnyrch mewnwladol crynswth y pen yn dal i fod yn 78 y cant o’r cyfartaledd ac yn is o lawer na hynny yn rhai o’n cymunedau mwyaf allgaeëdig.
Therefore, many aspects of this review are noteworthy. I will highlight one that the Chair has mentioned. In evidence taken by the Committee, funding was highlighted as the major issue. Funding for projects comes from many different sources and is restrictive in its terms of use. Often it is short-term funding with no long-term security. That in itself can cause many problems. Therefore, project teams are constantly having to apply to different bodies and cobble together funding in ways that divert efforts away from the regeneration work itself. If some of these recommendations are taken seriously they will have a major impact but, because they are far-reaching, it will take significant political will to bring them about. Recommendations 3 and 4 in particular, if adopted, will mean that the Assembly engages in a major undertaking to streamline the source of funding for which it is responsible and to work with and strongly influence other grant-giving bodies, to harmonise the other funds available.
Felly, mae llawer o agweddau ar yr adolygiad hwn yn nodedig. Tynnaf sylw at un y mae’r Cadeirydd wedi cyfeirio ati. Yn y dystiolaeth a dderbyniwyd gan y Pwyllgor, pwysleisiwyd mai cyllid oedd y mater pwysicaf. Daw’r arian ar gyfer prosiectau o lawer o wahanol ffynonellau ac mae’n gyfyngol o ran defnydd. Yn aml mae’n gyllid tymor byr heb sicrwydd tymor hir. Mae hynny ynddo’i hun yn gallu peri llawer o broblemau. Felly, mae timau prosiect yn gorfod ymgeisio’n gyson i wahanol gyrff a rhoi cyllid at ei gilydd mewn modd sy’n troi eu hymdrechion oddi wrth y gwaith adfywio ei hun. Os cymerir rhai o’r argymhellion hyn o ddifrif byddant yn cael effaith fawr ond, gan eu bod yn bellgyrhaeddol, bydd angen cryn ewyllys wleidyddol i’w rhoi ar waith. Bydd argymhellion 3 a 4 yn enwedig, os mabwysiedir hwy, yn golygu bod y Cynulliad yn ymgymryd â menter fawr i symleiddio ffynhonnell y cyllid y mae’n gyfrifol amdani ac i weithio gyda chyrff eraill sy’n rhoi grantiau, ac i ddylanwadu arnynt, er mwyn cysoni’r cyllid arall sydd ar gael.
Many groups would welcome the rationalisation and simplification of funding channels. However, much work is needed to achieve that. A great deal of political determination is necessary to review all Assembly departments and agencies. We have heard today that play money is being brought into line, and the Chair of the Local Government and Housing Committee referred to lottery money. Many more bodies must be brought into line if we are to realise this. Therefore, I look forward to hearing the Government’s reaction to this report. What does the Government see as the next step and how does it intend to progress with these recommendations if they are accepted today?
Byddai llawer o grwpiau’n croesawu rhesymoli a symleiddio’r sianeli ariannu. Fodd bynnag, mae angen llawer o waith i gyflawni hynny. Rhaid wrth lawer iawn o benderfyniad gwleidyddol i adolygu holl adrannau ac asiantaethau’r Cynulliad. Clywsom heddiw y caiff yr arian ar gyfer chwarae ei gysoni, a chyfeiriodd Cadeirydd y Pwyllgor Llywodraeth Leol a Thai at arian loteri. Rhaid cysoni llawer o gyrff yn rhagor os ydym i gyflawni hyn. Felly, edrychaf ymlaen at glywed ymateb y Llywodraeth i’r adroddiad hwn. Beth yw’r cam nesaf ym marn y Llywodraeth a sut y mae’n bwriadu bwrw ymlaen â’r argymhellion hyn os cânt eu derbyn heddiw?
It is clear that the total amount of money earmarked for community regeneration in Wales is still only a fraction of the money required to do the job properly, which must be considered. However, if recommendations 2 to 7 are accepted and acted upon, streamlining funding will help. I urge caution: we should not channel it all into Communities First. Communities throughout Wales have needs, and we must respond to them all. Otherwise, some communities could slip into deprivation while we are concentrating all our efforts on others.
Mae’n amlwg nad yw cyfanswm yr arian a glustnodwyd ar gyfer adfywio cymunedol yng Nghymru ond yn rhan fach iawn o’r hyn sydd ei angen i wneud y gwaith yn iawn, a rhaid ystyried hynny. Fodd bynnag, os derbynnir argymhellion 2 i 7 ac y gweithredir arnynt, bydd symleiddio’r broses ariannu yn gymorth. Dylid cymryd pwyll: ni ddylem sianelu popeth i Rhoi Cymunedau’n Gyntaf. Mae anghenion gan gymunedau ledled Cymru, a rhaid inni ymateb i bob un ohonynt. Fel arall, gallai rhai cymunedau lithro i amddifadedd tra ydym yn canolbwyntio ein holl ymdrechion ar eraill.
Once the Assembly has adopted the report, the Government will need to set out how it intends to implement it. If we are serious about regenerating communities, we cannot leave this report on a shelf. I want the Government to give the Committee an action plan for implementing these recommendations in the near future—hopefully before the Christmas recess. I urge the Assembly to support this report.
Wedi i’r Cynulliad dderbyn yr adroddiad, bydd yn rhaid i’r Llywodraeth nodi sut y mae’n bwriadu ei weithredu. Os ydym o ddifrif ynghylch adfywio cymunedau, ni allwn adael yr adroddiad hwn i gasglu llwch. Yr wyf am i’r Llywodraeth roi cynllun gweithredu i’r Pwyllgor ar gyfer gweithredu’r argymhellion hyn yn y dyfodol agos—cyn toriad y Nadolig, gobeithio. Anogaf y Cynulliad i gefnogi’r adroddiad hwn.
Like other Members, I am delighted that the Committee has undertaken this review. People the length and breadth of Wales care passionately about community regeneration. Having chosen this topic for short debate earlier this year, I am pleased that many of the issues raised then are well on their way to being addressed.
Fel yr Aelodau eraill, yr wyf wrth fy modd bod y Pwyllgor wedi cynnal yr adolygiad hwn. Mae pobl ar hyd a lled Cymru’n ymboeni’n angerddol am adfywio cymunedol. A minnau wedi dewis y pwnc hwn ar gyfer dadl fer yn gynharach eleni, yr wyf yn falch bod llawer o’r materion a godwyd bryd hynny wrthi’n cael eu hystyried.
In my constituency, local volunteers and activists work tirelessly to build a better future for their communities. Countless committed individuals work together to bring new opportunities to the young and old alike. However, despite all their hard work, they can often hit a brick wall on issues such as funding—as was mentioned—bureaucracy, and the general lack of community capacity. I am glad that this report identifies these problems and presents constructive solutions to them.
Yn fy etholaeth i, mae gwirfoddolwyr a gweithredwyr lleol yn gweithio’n ddiflino i greu gwell dyfodol i’w cymunedau. Mae nifer ddirifedi o unigolion ymrwymedig yn cydweithio i ddod â chyfleoedd newydd i’r ifanc a’r hen fel ei gilydd. Fodd bynnag, er gwaethaf eu holl waith caled, gallant ddod at faen tramgwydd yn aml ar faterion fel ariannu—fel y dywedwyd—biwrocratiaeth, a’r diffyg cyffredinol o ran gallu cymunedol. Yr wyf yn falch bod yr adroddiad hwn yn nodi’r problemau hynny ac yn cyflwyno atebion adeiladol iddynt.
Community activists have raised the issue of funding with me, and how the complexity of funding sources can leave a group of volunteers bewildered. As the report states, we must seriously consider simplifying funding schemes—with the emphasis on cutting red tape and reducing bureaucracy—to help local people address the needs of their community. Organisations find obtaining core funding difficult, as Janet Ryder mentioned, which also has consequences for staff recruitment and retention. I hope that we can follow the report’s recommendation and develop a core funding stream for established community regeneration projects and organisations.
Mae gweithredwyr cymunedol wedi codi mater ariannu gyda mi, a sut y mae astrusi’r ffynonellau ariannu’n gallu peri dryswch i grwpiau o wirfoddolwyr. Fel y dywed yr adroddiad, rhaid inni roi ystyriaeth ddifrifol i symleiddio’r cynlluniau ariannu—gyda’r pwyslais ar leihau biwrocratiaeth—i helpu pobl leol i ymdrin ag anghenion eu cymuned. Mae cyrff yn ei chael yn anodd cael cyllid craidd, fel y soniodd Janet Ryder, ac mae hynny’n cael effaith hefyd o ran recriwtio a chadw staff. Gobeithiaf y gallwn ddilyn argymhellion yr adroddiad a datblygu llif cyllid craidd ar gyfer prosiectau a chyrff adfywio cymunedol sefydledig.
The idea that the Assembly Government should publish an annual digest and calendar of funding streams is excellent, and I hope that the Minister will commit to that. I also thank the Minister and her officials for introducing the Communities First helpline, which will make a difference to those who work so hard to regenerate our most deprived communities. Alongside the excellent work of Communities First, people in areas with only a slightly lower level of deprivation are concerned about the regeneration of their communities. I welcome the Minister’s comments on how best to address those needs and concerns.
Mae’r syniad y dylai Llywodraeth y Cynulliad gyhoeddi crynodeb blynyddol a chalendr o bob llif cyllid yn un rhagorol, a gobeithiaf y bydd y Gweinidog yn ymrwymo i hynny. Yr wyf hefyd yn diolch i’r Gweinidog a’i swyddogion am sefydlu llinell gymorth Rhoi Cymunedau’n Gyntaf, a wnaiff wahaniaeth i’r rhai sy’n gweithio mor galed i adfywio ein cymunedau mwyaf difreintiedig. Ochr yn ochr â gwaith rhagorol Rhoi Cymunedau’n Gyntaf, mae pobl mewn ardaloedd sydd â lefel amddifadedd sydd ond ychydig yn is yn bryderus ynghylch adfywio eu cymunedau. Croesawaf sylwadau’r Gweinidog ar y ffordd orau i ymdrin â’r anghenion a’r pryderon hynny.
On involvement and partnership, community regeneration must follow a bottom-up approach, where the community is involved in and committed to projects that are seen as relevant. For example, in Lewistown, voluntary and statutory sectors work in close partnership with the local community to deliver a successful housing regeneration project. With the help of an Assembly social housing grant of over £1.8 million, that project has transformed one of the most deprived areas of my constituency. That is not only a prime example of the need for close partnership working, it serves to illustrate the multi-faceted nature of deprivation. Housing, crime, safety and the local environment are all important elements. I am pleased that this Government is committed to an approach that tackles poverty in all its forms.
Ynghylch cymryd rhan a phartneriaeth, rhaid i adfywio cymunedol weithio o’r gwaelod i fyny gyda’r gymuned yn cymryd rhan ac yn ymroi i brosiectau a ystyrir yn berthnasol. Er enghraifft, yn Lewistown, mae’r sectorau gwirfoddol a statudol yn cydweithio’n agos gyda’r gymuned leol i redeg prosiect adfywio tai llwyddiannus. Gyda chymorth grant tai cymdeithasol o dros £1.8 miliwn gan y Cynulliad, mae’r prosiect hwnnw wedi trawsnewid un o’r ardaloedd mwyaf difreintiedig yn fy etholaeth. Yn ogystal â bod yn enghraifft ragorol o’r angen am waith partneriaeth clòs, mae’n dangos natur amlweddog amddifadedd. Mae tai, troseddu, diogelwch a’r amgylchedd lleol i gyd yn elfennau pwysig. Yr wyf yn falch bod y Llywodraeth hon wedi ymrwymo i ddull gweithredu sy’n mynd i’r afael â phob math o dlodi.
The Welsh Conservatives firmly believe that to regenerate our communities, people need to be empowered to effect the required improvements. Therefore, we can only make progress in regenerating our communities if communities are involved and committed to achieving commonly agreed objectives.
Mae Ceidwadwyr Cymru’n credu’n bendant bod adfywio ein cymunedau’n gofyn am alluogi pobl i gyflawni’r gwelliannau sydd eu hangen. Gan hynny, dim ond os yw cymunedau’n cymryd rhan ac yn ymroi i gyflawni amcanion a gytunir gan bawb y gellir gwneud cynnydd wrth eu hadfywio.
Along with other members of the Local Government and Housing Committee, I endorse this report. However, I have previously outlined several specific reservations, which remain. I am concerned about the absence of a positive structure through which we could engage and involve the independent sector in the community regeneration process. This report devotes nine paragraphs and three recommendations to relationships with, and resourcing community engagement with, the statutory sector, yet has no specific paragraph or recommendation for engaging the independent sector. I trust that the Minister will realise the potential and value of that sector and its integral role in regenerating our rural and urban communities. After all, a thriving independent sector is a major indicator of a vibrant community.
Yn yr un modd ag aelodau eraill y Pwyllgor Llywodraeth Leol a Thai, yr wyf yn cefnogi’r adroddiad hwn. Er hynny, yr wyf wedi disgrifio rhai amheuon penodol cyn hyn, ac maent yn parhau. Yr wyf yn bryderus ynghylch diffyg strwythur cadarnhaol y gallem ei ddefnyddio i gysylltu â’r sector annibynnol a’i gynnwys yn y broses adfywio cymunedol. Mae’r adroddiad hwn yn neilltuo naw paragraff a thri argymhelliad i gysylltiadau â’r sector statudol ac ariannu gwaith y sector hwnnw yn y gymuned, ac eto nid oes yr un paragraff nac argymhelliad penodol ar gyfer cynnwys y sector annibynnol. Hyderaf y bydd y Gweinidog yn sylweddoli beth yw potensial a gwerth y sector hwnnw a’i rôl hanfodol wrth adfywio ein cymunedau gwledig a threfol. Wedi’r cwbl, mae sector annibynnol ffyniannus yn arwydd pwysig o gymuned fywiog.
I am also concerned about the need for a higher degree of accountability and transparency. That is vital, because when we empower people to effect the improvements necessary in their communities, they should be able to concentrate upon those needs and not be diverted towards finding the finance to generate those improvements. When funding comes from Objective 1 or Communities First sources—as it may well in many of our communities—we must separate individual programme aims, so that we can monitor the progress made towards achieving each aim and see how they were financed.
Yr wyf hefyd yn bryderus ynghylch yr angen am fwy o atebolrwydd a thryloywder. Mae hynny’n hollbwysig, oherwydd pan ydym yn galluogi pobl i gyflawni’r gwelliannau sydd eu hangen yn eu cymunedau, dylent allu canolbwyntio ar yr anghenion hynny heb orfod treulio amser yn canfod y cyllid i ariannu’r gwelliannau hynny. Pan ddaw’r cyllid o ffynonellau Amcan 1 neu Rhoi Cymunedau’n Gyntaf—sy’n ddigon tebygol mewn llawer o’n cymunedau—rhaid inni wahanu nodau’r rhaglenni unigol, fel y gallwn fonitro’r cynnydd at gyflawni pob nod a gweld sut y cawsant eu hariannu.
Several major improvements in the funding climate in recent years can be identified, including the availability of lottery and Millennium Commission funding. However, there has been a significant fall in the sale of lottery tickets and, therefore, in the amount of money filtering through for good causes. I was glad to hear the Chair recognise that this should form part of our submission to the lottery review. Sadly, we must also recognise the high failure rate for Millennium Commission-funded projects, the majority of which fail to achieve self-financing or secure funding from other sources.
Gellir nodi sawl gwelliant o bwys yn yr hinsawdd ariannu yn y blynyddoedd diwethaf hyn, gan gynnwys y cyllid sydd ar gael oddi wrth y loteri a Chomisiwn y Mileniwm. Er hynny, bu gostyngiad sylweddol yn nifer y tocynnau loteri a werthir ac, felly, yn y swm o arian ar gyfer achosion da. Yr oeddwn yn falch o glywed y Cadeirydd yn cydnabod y dylai hyn fod yn rhan o’n cyflwyniad i’r adolygiad o’r loteri. Gwaetha’r modd, rhaid inni hefyd gydnabod bod nifer fawr o’r prosiectau a ariannwyd gan Gomisiwn y Mileniwm wedi methu, a bod y rhan fwyaf ohonynt yn methu o ran ariannu eu hunain neu sicrhau arian o ffynonellau eraill.
Another change is the slowing rate of economic growth across the UK, which erodes the amount of finance available to Government and has a direct bearing on the money available for regenerating our communities. The Assembly administration must come to terms with this and explain how it will react. Governments can provide the initial funding to begin the regeneration process, but if we cannot involve the independent sector in the long-term economic sustainability of our communities, improvements may prove to be only short term. That will only serve to increase the opinion that our local authorities are failing the communities that they are elected to serve.
Un newid arall yw’r arafu yn y gyfradd twf economaidd ledled y DU, sy’n erydu maint y cyllid sydd ar gael i’r Llywodraeth ac yn dylanwadu’n uniongyrchol ar yr arian sydd ar gael ar gyfer adfywio ein cymunedau. Rhaid i weinyddiaeth y Cynulliad ymgynefino â hyn ac egluro sut y bydd yn ymateb. Gall llywodraethau ddarparu’r cyllid dechreuol i gychwyn y broses adfywio, ond os na allwn gynnwys y sector annibynnol yng nghynaliadwyedd economaidd tymor hir ein cymunedau, gallai’r gwelliannau fod yn rhai tymor byr yn unig. Ni fydd hynny ond yn hybu’r farn bod ein hawdurdodau lleol yn siomi’r cymunedau y’u hetholwyd i’w gwasanaethu.
Finally, I concentrate on the acknowledgement that these programmes are being implemented without the required number of qualified and experienced community regeneration workers. Such workers are being drawn away from hands-on community work and tempted into administration posts with local authorities. Again, that emphasises the need for the full engagement of the independent sector.
Yn olaf, canolbwyntiaf ar y gydnabyddiaeth bod y rhaglenni hyn yn cael eu gweithredu heb y nifer ofynnol o weithwyr adfywio cymunedol cymwys a phrofiadol. Mae gweithwyr o’r fath yn cael eu denu oddi wrth waith cymunedol uniongyrchol at swyddi gweinyddol gyda’r awdurdodau lleol. Unwaith eto, mae hynny’n pwysleisio’r angen i’r sector annibynnol gymryd rhan lawn.
I am pleased that last week the Minister recognised the contribution of church halls to the social integration of communities, especially in rural areas. Although they are owned and managed by religious organisations, they provide all groups in the community with a place to meet and hold social functions.
Yr wyf yn falch bod y Gweinidog yr wythnos diwethaf wedi cydnabod cyfraniad neuaddau eglwys i integreiddio cymunedau’n gymdeithasol, yn enwedig mewn ardaloedd gwledig. Er mai cyrff crefyddol sy’n berchen arnynt ac yn eu rheoli, gall pob grŵp yn y gymuned gyfarfod a chynnal digwyddiadau cymdeithasol ynddynt.
Our communities are not static; they evolve and, hopefully, they improve. To meet these changes, we must adopt a flexible approach and seek to improve the quality of life within communities. I ask the Minister to address my reservations so that we will have the ability not only to adapt to the changes that take place, but to regenerate communities while sustaining improvements in quality of life.
Nid yw ein cymunedau’n sefydlog; maent yn datblygu a, gobeithio, yn gwella. Er mwyn darparu ar gyfer y newidiadau hyn, rhaid inni fabwysiadu dull gweithredu hyblyg a cheisio gwella ansawdd bywyd o fewn cymunedau. Gofynnaf i’r Gweinidog roi sylw i’m hamheuon fel y byddwn nid yn unig yn gallu ymaddasu i’r newidiadau sy’n digwydd, ond hefyd yn gallu adfywio cymunedau gan barhau â gwelliannau mewn ansawdd bywyd.
Communities have always played a key part in Welsh life—in our nationhood, culture and language. Over past generations our communities have been eroded: both urban and rural, Welsh speaking and English speaking. The life-blood of our communities needs to be returned. This report is part of the process of returning that life-blood, but it is the easy part. The difficult part will be delivering and implementing all of these fine recommendations.
Mae cymunedau’n chwarae rhan allweddol ym mywyd Cymru erioed—yn ein cenedligrwydd, ein diwylliant a’n hiaith. Dros y cenedlaethau a aeth heibio erydwyd ein cymunedau: rhai trefol a rhai gwledig, rhai Cymraeg a rhai Saesneg. Rhaid dod â’r enaid yn ôl i’n cymunedau. Mae’r adroddiad hwn yn rhan o’r broses o ddod â’r enaid hwnnw’n ôl, ond hon yw’r rhan hawdd. Y rhan anodd fydd gwireddu a gweithredu’r holl argymhellion da hyn.
In my brief remarks, I will focus on three issues: funding, capacity and co-ordination. Having worked in the voluntary sector for many years, I share all the reservations expressed in this debate concerning bureaucracy, difficulty in securing funding and the annual anxiety about whether your project can be delivered to your community. Funding is critical to implement these fine recommendations.
Yn y sylwadau byr sydd gennyf, canolbwyntiaf ar dri mater: ariannu, capasiti a chydlynu. A minnau wedi gweithio yn y sector gwirfoddol am flynyddoedd lawer, rhannaf yr holl amheuon a fynegwyd yn y ddadl hon ynghylch biwrocratiaeth, yr anhawster wrth sicrhau cyllid a’r pryder blynyddol ynghylch a ellir darparu’ch prosiect ar gyfer eich cymuned. Mae ariannu’n hollbwysig er mwyn gweithredu’r argymhellion da hyn.
We must ensure that core funding is guaranteed so that the necessary parts of any regeneration project can run. Each project needs an office and at least one community development officer, which should be the minimum basis for funding. The development of the market towns initiative in mid Wales had a three-year funding package, which is a good example. The term of a funding package should depend upon evaluating and monitoring the project.
Rhaid inni sicrhau y caiff cyllid craidd ei warantu fel y gall y rhannau angenrheidiol o unrhyw brosiect adfywio barhau. Mae ar bob prosiect angen swyddfa ac o leiaf un swyddog datblygu cymunedol, a dylai hynny fod yn ofyniad sylfaenol ar gyfer ariannu. Yr oedd pecyn ariannu tair blynedd gan fenter datblygu trefi marchnad y Canolbarth, ac mae hynny’n enghraifft dda. Dylai cyfnod y pecyn ariannu ddibynnu ar werthuso a monitro’r prosiect.
Work within communities is too often top-down. The Government provides the rhetoric and great principles of community regeneration, but people in communities do not possess the know-how to get on with regeneration activities. Capacity building is important to ensure that communities have the power to use the money that they can access. All too often, we end up with schemes that—as a friend once put it—merely put cosmetics on a corpse. We select our communities, beautify them and then abandon them, which must not be allowed. With all the funding available, we must ensure that we have the capacity to build sustainable projects.
Mae’r gwaith mewn cymunedau yn dod oddi uchod yn rhy aml. Mae’r Llywodraeth yn darparu’r rhethreg a’r egwyddorion mawr mewn adfywio cymunedol, ond nid yw pobl mewn cymunedau’n meddu ar y gallu i fwrw ymlaen â gweithgareddau adfywio. Mae’n bwysig datblygu potensial fel y gall cymunedau ddefnyddio’r arian y gallant ei gael. Yn rhy aml o lawer, yr hyn a gawn yn y pen draw yw cynlluniau sydd—fel y dywedodd ffrind i mi unwaith—ond yn rhoi colur ar gorff marw. Yr ydym yn dethol ein cymunedau, yn eu harddu ac wedyn yn eu gadael, ac ni ddylid caniatáu hynny. Gyda’r cyllid sydd ar gael, rhaid inni sicrhau bod gennym y gallu i greu prosiectau cynaliadwy.
We must also co-ordinate all of this effort. Reference was made to the complexity of drawing down funds. The Coalfields Regeneration Trust is one of many worthy organisations, and is a good example. Although the Committee’s report does not refer to the trust, almost £3.5 million was allocated to that trust between 1999 and 2002, and a funding package of over £1 million was recently agreed with the partnership Government to enable the trust to continue its activities in Wales. Having several organisations working on the same project to achieve the same aims—yet not saving on bureaucracy costs—drains money away from delivering community regeneration. We must ensure that projects such as Communities First, Sustainable Communities and the Coalfields Regeneration Trust are all represented on a single community regeneration body. That body must be accessible, for instance through the use of a single phone number, so that if you want to get money for your community, you know where to go.
Rhaid inni hefyd gydlynu’r holl ymdrechion hyn. Cyfeiriwyd at y dull astrus o gael at yr arian. Mae Ymddiriedolaeth Adfywio’r Meysydd Glo’n un o blith nifer fawr o gyrff clodwiw, ac mae’n enghraifft dda. Er nad yw adroddiad y Pwyllgor yn cyfeirio at yr ymddiriedolaeth, dyrannwyd bron £3.5 miliwn i’r ymddiriedolaeth honno rhwng 1999 a 2002, a chytunwyd ar becyn ariannu o dros £1 filiwn yn ddiweddar gyda’r Llywodraeth bartneriaeth i alluogi’r ymddiriedolaeth i barhau â’i gweithgareddau yng Nghymru. Os yw sawl corff yn gweithio ar yr un prosiect i gyflawni’r un nodau—ond heb arbed costau biwrocratiaeth—mae hynny’n tynnu arian oddi wrth gyflawni adfywio cymunedol. Rhaid inni sicrhau bod prosiectau fel Rhoi Cymunedau’n Gyntaf, Cymunedau Cynaliadwy ac Ymddiriedolaeth Adfywio’r Meysydd Glo i gyd yn cael eu cynrychioli mewn un corff adfywio cymunedol. Rhaid i’r corff hwnnw fod yn hawdd ei gyrraedd, drwy ddefnyddio un rhif ffôn, er enghraifft, fel y byddwch yn gwybod i ble y dylech fynd os ydych am gael arian i’ch cymuned.
The current complexity is one of the major barriers to ensuring that money is drawn down. I hope to see all of these suggestions implemented and I praise many of the Committee’s recommendations, particularly those relating to training courses being ready for people to attend. All too often, courses, which would encourage people to gain the necessary skills to go out into the community, are unavailable. I commend a scheme in Powys that runs a youth leadership course, because young people in communities are not often encouraged to become teacher leaders. If all such matters were addressed, we could truly deliver community regeneration in Wales.
Yr astrusi presennol yw un o’r prif rwystrau i sicrhau bod yr arian yn cael ei ddefnyddio. Gobeithiaf weld gweithredu’r holl awgrymiadau hyn a chanmolaf lawer o argymhellion y Pwyllgor, yn enwedig y rhai sy’n ymwneud â sicrhau bod cysriau hyfforddi’n barod i bobl eu mynychu. Yn rhy aml o lawer, ni ddarperir cyrsiau a fyddai’n cymell pobl i ddysgu’r sgiliau angenrheidiol i fynd allan i’r gymuned. Cymeradwyaf y cynllun ym Mhowys sy’n rhedeg cwrs arweinyddiaeth ieuenctid, gan nad oes anogaeth yn aml i bobl ifanc mewn cymunedau ddod yn athrawon arweinwyr. Os gellid ymdrin â’r holl faterion o’r fath, byddai gwir fodd inni gyflawni adfywio cymunedol yng Nghymru.
John Marek The Deputy Presiding Officer spoken in English p. 69
John Marek Y Dirprwy Lywydd siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 69
I am sorry that I was only able to call one speaker from each party, but we must protect the time allowed for the minority party debate, which must commence at 4.30 p.m.. I call the Minister to respond on behalf of the Executive.
Mae’n ddrwg gennyf nad oeddwn ond yn gallu galw ar un siaradwr o bob plaid, ond rhaid inni warchod yr amser a ganiateir ar gyfer y ddadl plaid leiafrifol, y mae’n rhaid iddi ddechrau am 4.30 p.m. Galwaf ar y Gweinidog i ymateb ar ran y Weithrediaeth.
Edwina Hart The Finance Minister spoken in English p. 69
Edwina Hart Y Gweinidog Cyllid siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 69
I am sorry that you have had to curtail this debate, Deputy Presiding Officer. I welcome the Committee’s report on the review of community regeneration. It is timely as we are in the early stages of implementing Communities First, and the findings will be helpful in guiding the further development of that programme. They will also help in relation to how we take forward the Welsh Assembly Government’s wider social inclusion agenda.
Mae’n ddrwg gennyf eich bod wedi gorfod byrhau’r ddadl hon, Ddirprwy Lywydd. Croesawaf adroddiad y Pwyllgor ar yr adolygiad o adfywio cymunedol. Mae’n amserol gan ein bod yn y cyfnod cynnar o weithredu Rhoi Cymunedau’n Gyntaf, a bydd y canfyddiadau o gymorth wrth lywio datblygiad y rhaglen honno yn y dyfodol. Byddant o gymorth hefyd o ran y modd yr ydym yn bwrw ymlaen ag agenda ehangach Llywodraeth Cynulliad Cymru ar gynhwysiant cymdeithasol.
I am happy to accept all of the Committee’s recommendations as we had already recognised the need to address the majority of the issues raised. Communities First is an ambitious programme, and raises several challenges. It is therefore vital that we work with all our partner organisations to ensure that recommendations are effectively implemented for the maximum benefit of the people of Wales.
Y mae’n bleser gennyf dderbyn holl argymhellion y Pwyllgor gan ein bod eisoes wedi cydnabod yr angen i ymdrin â’r rhan fwyaf o’r materion a godwyd. Mae Rhoi Cymunedau’n Gyntaf yn rhaglen uchelgeisiol, ac mae’n cynnig sawl her. Mae’n hollbwysig felly ein bod yn gweithio gyda’n cyrff partner i sicrhau y caiff yr argymhellion eu gweithredu’n effeithiol er y budd mwyaf i bobl Cymru.
Several recommendations have already been implemented and others will be achieved in a relatively short time. The remainder will need to be researched, as it is important to ensure that the groundwork is done properly before making decisions on developing our policies further and adapting our existing programmes.
Mae sawl argymhelliad wedi’i weithredu eisoes a chyflawnir eraill o fewn cyfnod cymharol fyr. Bydd yn rhaid ymchwilio i’r gweddill, gan ei bod yn bwysig sicrhau y gwneir y gwaith paratoi’n iawn cyn gwneud penderfyniadau ar ddatblygu ein polisïau ymhellach ac addasu ein rhaglenni presennol.
Recommendation 1 concerns promoting social inclusion, partnership working and community involvement. They are central to Communities First and the Welsh Assembly Government’s policy. As regards recommendation 2, my officials have commissioned the Communities First support network to publish widely the types of advice and support services available to Communities First partnerships. Full information should be available on the network’s website in coming weeks.
Mae argymhelliad 1 yn ymwneud â hyrwyddo cynhwysiant cymdeithasol, gweithio mewn partneriaeth a chyfraniad y gymuned. Mae hynny’n ganolog i Rhoi Cymunedau’n Gyntaf a pholisi Llywodraeth Cynulliad Cymru. Gyda golwg ar argymhelliad 2, mae fy swyddogion wedi comisiynu rhwydwaith cymorth Rhoi Cymunedau’n Gyntaf i roi cyhoeddusrwydd eang i’r mathau o wasanaethau cyngor a chymorth sydd ar gael i bartneriaethau Rhoi Cymunedau’n Gyntaf. Dylai gwybodaeth lawn fod ar gael ar wefan y rhwydwaith yn yr wythnosau i ddod.
I have also been reviewing the funding available for community regeneration activities throughout Wales, and so have made a start on implementing recommendations 3 and 4. The broad community regeneration budget that I announced on 15 October will provide much-needed flexibility and co-ordination to address the significant challenge of regenerating Wales. Officials are also involved in discussions with Assembly sponsored public bodies with a view to establishing a funding forum.
Bûm hefyd yn adolygu’r cyllid sydd ar gael i weithgareddau adfywio cymunedol ledled Cymru, ac felly yr wyf wedi cychwyn gweithredu argymhellion 3 a 4. Bydd y gyllideb adfywio cymunedol gynhwysfawr a gyhoeddais ar 15 Hydref yn rhoi’r hyblygrwydd a’r cydlynu y mae eu mawr angen i fynd i’r afael â’r her fawr o adfywio Cymru. Mae swyddogion hefyd yn cymryd rhan mewn trafodaethau gyda chyrff cyhoeddus a noddir gan y Cynulliad gyda golwg ar sefydlu fforwm ariannu.
The community regeneration and social inclusion policy board, which I chair, is examining the issues regarding recommendation 5, to ensure that funding streams are less bureaucratic and more accessible to local people.
Mae’r bwrdd polisi adfywio cymunedol a chynhwysiant cymdeithasol, yr wyf yn gadeirydd arno, yn ymchwilio i’r materion sy’n ymwneud ag argymhelliad 5, i sicrhau bod y llifau ariannu’n llai biwrocrataidd ac yn fwy agored i bobl leol.
I have asked my officials to ensure that all relevant Assembly group directors consider recommendation 6. As regards recommendation 7, I have established a funding stream under the new community regeneration budget. Recommendation 8 has been implemented.
Yr wyf wedi gofyn i’m swyddogion sicrhau bod holl gyfarwyddwyr grŵp perthnasol y Cynulliad yn ystyried argymhelliad 6. O ran argymhelliad 7, yr wyf wedi sefydlu llif ariannu o dan y gyllideb adfywio cymunedol newydd. Mae argymhelliad 8 wedi’i roi ar waith.
Ensuring that community capacity is developed and enhanced for delivering Communities First, as outlined in recommendation 9, is key. My officials work with our partners, and will continue to do so, to focus on increasing the capacity of communities to regenerate their areas. Recommendation 10 is an ongoing issue: the Assembly works with all relevant agencies to promote high standards of community best practice.
Mae sicrhau y caiff gallu cymunedol ei ddatblygu a’i wella i weithredu Rhoi Cymunedau’n Gyntaf, fel y disgrifir yn argymhelliad 9, yn allweddol. Mae fy swyddogion yn gweithio gyda’n partneriaid, a byddant yn parhau i wneud hynny, i ganolbwyntio ar gynyddu gallu cymunedau i adfywio eu hardaloedd. Mae argymhelliad 10 yn fater sy’n codi’n barhaus: mae’r Cynulliad yn gweithio gyda’r holl asiantaethau perthnasol i hybu safonau uchel yn yr arfer cymunedol gorau.
Officials have already had initial discussions with representatives of Community Development Cymru to consider how best to take recommendation 11 forward, and develop a national plan for community regeneration capacity. That significant task will be undertaken in coming months.
Mae swyddogion eisoes wedi cael trafodaethau dechreuol â chynrychiolwyr Datblygu Cymunedol Cymru i ystyried y dull gorau o fwrw ymlaen ag argymhelliad 11, a datblygu cynllun cenedlaethol ar gyfer y gallu i adfywio cymunedau. Ymgymerir â’r dasg fawr honno yn y misoedd i ddod.
On recommendation 12, the Assembly has funded the consortium for community regeneration training to map the provision of existing training programmes across Wales. Officials will meet Professor Dave Adamson, who leads the consortium, to discuss progress. Under the Communities First preparatory activity stage, funding has been available since July 2001 to enable people living in Communities First areas to undertake community development training. Officials have recently been actively encouraging the take up of that opportunity. They are also considering introducing a more formalised bursary scheme, which, I believe, the Committee will welcome.
Ynghylch argymhelliad 12, mae’r Cynulliad wedi ariannu’r consortiwm ar gyfer hyfforddiant adfywio cymunedol i fapio darpariaeth y rhaglenni hyfforddi a geir ar hyn o bryd ledled Cymru. Bydd y swyddogion yn cwrdd â’r Athro Dave Adamson, sy’n arwain y consortiwm, i drafod y cynnydd. Mae arian ar gael o dan gam gweithgaredd paratoadol Rhoi Cymunedau’n Gyntaf ers Gorffennaf 2001 i alluogi pobl sy’n byw mewn ardaloedd Rhoi Cymunedau’n Gyntaf i ddilyn hyfforddiant datblygu cymunedol. Mae’r swyddogion wedi bod yn rhoi anogaeth i bobl fanteisio ar y cyfle hwnnw’n ddiweddar. Maent hefyd yn ystyried cyflwyno cynllun bwrsari mwy ffurfiol y credaf y bydd y Pwyllgor yn ei groesawu.
Recommendation 13 is a central principle of Communities First. The partnerships themselves should decide who receives a grant. The guidance makes it clear that the statutory sector should not exceed one third of the partnership’s membership.
Argymhelliad 13 yw un o egwyddorion canolog Rhoi Cymunedau’n Gyntaf. Y partneriaethau eu hunain a ddylai benderfynu pwy sy’n derbyn grant. Mae’r canllawiau’n rhoi ar ddeall na ddylai’r sector statudol fod yn fwy nag un rhan o dair o aelodaeth y bartneriaeth.
On recommendation 14, I have asked officials to advise me on what would be involved in introducing a system of accreditation of community regeneration partnerships and how that should be taken forward.
Ynghylch argymhelliad 14, yr wyf wedi gofyn i swyddogion fy nghynghori ynghylch yr hyn y byddai cyflwyno system achredu partneriaethau adfywio cymunedol yn ei olygu a sut y dylid bwrw ymlaen â hynny.
I accept the spirit of recommendation 15, but there are issues to be resolved. I will update the Committee and discuss those issues in due course.
Yr wyf yn derbyn ysbryd argymhelliad 15, ond mae materion y mae angen eu datrys. Rhoddaf wybod i’r Pwyllgor am y datblygiadau a thrafodaf y materion hynny gyda hyn.
I am keen to ensure that the Communities First principles are adopted across Wales and have already considered how to do that. Therefore, regarding recommendation 16, I can inform Members that I have established a communities facilities and activities programme that will do that from 1 April 2003.
Yr wyf yn awyddus i sicrhau y caiff egwyddorion Rhoi Cymunedau’n Gyntaf eu mabwysiadu ledled Cymru ac yr wyf eisoes wedi ystyried sut i wneud hynny. Felly, gyda golwg ar argymhelliad 16, gallaf hysbysu’r Aelodau fy mod wedi sefydlu rhaglen cyfleusterau a gweithgareddau i gymunedau a wnaiff hynny o 1 Ebrill 2003 ymlaen.
Some progress has been made towards implementing recommendation 17. Assembly staff have been, and are being, trained in community development, and secondments are actively encouraged. Furthermore, a community development practitioner has been appointed to provide advice to the Communities First implementation teams and close working relationships have been established with organisations such as Community Development Cymru, the community development foundation and the Communities First support network.
Gwnaed peth cynnydd tuag at weithredu argymhelliad 17. Mae staff y Cynulliad wedi’u hyfforddi, ac yn cael eu hyfforddi, mewn datblygu cymunedol, ac anogir secondiadau. At hynny, penodwyd ymarferwr datblygu cymunedol i ddarparu cyngor ar gyfer y timau gweithredu Rhoi Cymunedau’n Gyntaf a sefydlwyd cysylltiadau gweithio clòs â chyrff fel Datblygu Cymunedol Cymru, sefydliad datblygu cymunedol a rhwydwaith cymorth Rhoi Cymunedau’n Gyntaf.
Finally, in respect of recommendation 18, a monitoring and evaluation framework for Communities First has been prepared and I will present a paper on this to the Local Government and Housing Committee in December. I will also write to members of that Committee with a more formal response to this review.
Yn olaf, gyda golwg ar argymhelliad 18, paratowyd fframwaith monitro a gwerthuso ar gyfer Rhoi Cymunedau’n Gyntaf a byddaf yn cyflwyno papur ar hyn i’r Pwyllgor Llywodraeth Leol a Thai yn Rhagfyr. Byddaf hefyd yn ysgrifennu at aelodau’r Pwyllgor hwnnw gydag ymateb mwy ffurfiol i’r adolygiad hwn.
I thank the Committee for undertaking the review and I look forward to its further review, which will also be enormously beneficial because of the issue of capacity building. I thank all those who have participated. It is a pleasure to deal with a Committee that has presented such a constructive report to help us to ensure that we get the right results across Wales.
Diolchaf i’r Pwyllgor am ymgymryd â’r adolygiad ac edrychaf ymlaen at ei adolygiad pellach, a fydd hefyd o fudd aruthrol oherwydd mater datblygu gallu. Diolchaf i bawb a gymerodd ran. Pleser yw delio â Phwyllgor sydd wedi cyflwyno adroddiad mor adeiladol i’n helpu i sicrhau y cawn y canlyniadau iawn ledled Cymru.
I thank Members for their interest. Janet Ryder spoke about funding and resourcing. Janice Gregory talked about funding, bureaucracy and partnership. William Graham, I am sure that we will take on board your points about involving and engaging the independent sector, which are addressed in the recommendations and in the body of the report. You also talked about funding. Mick Bates talked about rural areas and agricultural communities and, again, funding, capacity building and co-ordination. Therefore, the same theme has emerged this afternoon that emerged after the Committee’s consultation process—funding, capacity building, and partnership working.
Diolchaf i’r Aelodau am eu diddordeb. Siaradodd Janet Ryder am ariannu a chael adnoddau. Siaradodd Janice Gregory am ariannu, biwrocratiaeth a phartneriaeth. William Graham, yr wyf yn siŵr y byddwn yn cadw mewn cof eich pwyntiau am gynnwys a chysylltu â’r sector annibynnol, sy’n cael sylw yn yr argymhellion ac yng nghorff yr adroddiad. Gwnaethoch chithau sôn am ariannu. Soniodd Mick Bates am ardaloedd gwledig a chymunedau amaethyddol ac, unwaith eto, ariannu, datblygu gallu a chydlynu. Felly, mae’r un thema wedi dod i’r amlwg y prynhawn yma ag a ddaeth i’r amlwg ar ôl proses ymgynghori’r Pwyllgor—ariannu, datblygu potensial, a gweithio mewn partneriaeth.
In carrying out this review, the Committee wrote to over 100 organisations inviting them to comment. It received 24 written responses; it received oral evidence from 18 different sources, and visited six projects throughout Wales. All the evidence received—or much of it—has been repeated this afternoon. Much of the evidence received was taken into account in producing the report. The report has 18 recommendations, to which the Minister referred. I am glad that the Minister is willing to take on board all these recommendations. That is significant. I thank her also for listing the work that is already in progress. The Committee will follow the progress on these matters with interest.
Wrth gynnal yr adolygiad hwn, ysgrifennodd y Pwyllgor at dros 100 o gyrff gan eu gwahodd i wneud sylwadau. Cafodd 24 o ymatebion ysgrifenedig; cafodd dystiolaeth lafar o 18 o wahanol ffynonellau, ac ymwelodd â chwe phrosiect ledled Cymru. Mae’r holl dystiolaeth a gafwyd—neu lawer ohoni—wedi’i hailadrodd y prynhawn yma. Ystyriwyd llawer o’r dystiolaeth a gafwyd wrth gynhyrchu’r adroddiad. Mae 18 o argymhellion yn yr adroddiad, y mae’r Gweinidog wedi cyfeirio atynt. Yr wyf yn falch bod y Gweinidog yn barod i ystyried y cwbl o’r argymhellion hynny. Mae hynny’n bwysig. Diolchaf iddi am restru’r gwaith sy’n mynd ymlaen eisoes. Bydd y Pwyllgor yn dilyn y cynnydd ar y materion hyn â diddordeb.
Cynnig NDM1179 Gwenda Thomas t. 73
Motion NDM1179 Gwenda Thomas p. 73
DerbyniwydAdopted O blaidFor 48 YmatalAbstain 0 Yn erbynAgainst 0
Derbyniwyd y cynnig.
Motion carried.
Sut y pleidleisiodd yr AelodauHow Members voted
O blaidFor (48)
- Lorraine Barrett
- Mick Bates
- Peter Black
- Nick Bourne
- Eleanor Burnham
- Rosemary Butler
- Alun Cairns
- Christine Chapman
- Cynog Dafis
- Andrew Davies
- David Davies
- Geraint Davies
- Glyn Davies
- Janet Davies
- Jocelyn Davies
- Ron Davies
- Delyth Evans
- William Graham
- Janice Gregory
- John Griffiths
- Brian Gibbons
- Christine Gwyther
- Brian Hancock
- Edwina Hart
- Jane Hutt
- Pauline Jarman
- Ann Jones
- Carwyn Jones
- David Ian Jones
- Elin Jones
- Gareth Jones
- Helen Mary Jones
- Ieuan Wyn Jones
- Val Lloyd
- Peter Law
- David Melding
- Tom Middlehurst
- Jonathan Morgan
- Alun Pugh
- Jenny Randerson
- Peter Rogers
- Janet Ryder
- Karen Sinclair
- Gwenda Thomas
- Rhodri Glyn Thomas
- Dafydd Wigley
- Kirsty Williams
- Phil Williams
Dadl Plaid Leiafrifol (Plaid Cymru)
Minority Party Debate (Plaid Cymru)
Economi Cymru
The Welsh Economy
John Marek The Deputy Presiding Officer spoken in English p. 74
John Marek Y Dirprwy Lywydd siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 74
I have selected amendment 1 in the name of Carwyn Jones, and amendment 2 in the name of Jonathan Morgan.
Yr wyf wedi dethol gwelliant 1 yn enw Carwyn Jones, a gwelliant 2 yn enw Jonathan Morgan.
Elin Jones (continued) spoken in Welsh and English p. 75
Elin Jones (parhad) siaradwyd yn Gymraeg ac yn Saesneg t. 75
Today, Plaid Cymru intends to expose the weaknesses of the Government’s economic programme and propose an alternative, focused strategy for economic development. No Government debate to discuss the economy has come before the Assembly this year, which confirms that the Government is in complete denial over the appropriateness of its economic policy and the credibility of its economic targets. Denial, I am told, can lead eventually to panic. Last week, we saw some of that panic set in, in the form of some quite stunning spinning by the Minister for Economic Development. I will give three examples.
yn Saesneg Heddiw, mae Plaid Cymru yn bwriadu amlygu gwendidau rhaglen economaidd y Llywodraeth a chynnig strategaeth eglur, amgen ar gyfer datblygu economaidd. Nid yw’r Llywodraeth wedi dod â’r un ddadl i drafod yr economi gerbron y Cynulliad eleni, sy’n cadarnhau bod y Llywodraeth yn llwyr ymwadu â’r gwirionedd am addasrwydd ei pholisi economaidd a hygrededd ei thargedau economaidd. Dywedir wrthyf fod ymwadu’n gallu arwain yn y pen draw at banig. Yr wythnos diwethaf, gwelsom rywfaint o’r panig hwnnw’n dechrau’i amlygu ei hun, ar ffurf sbin eithaf syfrdanol gan y Gweinidog dros Ddatblygu Economaidd. Rhoddaf dair enghraifft.
First, my constituency lost nearly 900 jobs during the summer, with three major redundancy announcements—in Cardigan, Aberporth and Aberystwyth. Only the smallest of these was officially reported by the Minister to the Economic Development Committee last week. The plight of workers at Dewhirst, Cardigan and Elizabeth the Chef in Aberystwyth were consigned to oblivion. However, the Minister was more than willing to report to Committee that a piece of land near Tesco in Cardigan had been bought by a property developer, possibly for retail development, possibly for Marks & Spencer. Property developers promising a Marks & Spencer store have come and gone over the last 20 years in Ceredigion. Such speculative property deals should not merit reporting by an Assembly Minister to Committee, endeavouring to hide the bad news under apparent good news. It is worth remembering that ministers using such tactics have lost their jobs in the past.
yn Saesneg Yn gyntaf, collodd fy etholaeth i ymron i 900 o swyddi yn ystod yr haf, gyda thri chyhoeddiad am ddiswyddiadau mawr—yn Aberteifi, Aberporth ac Aberystwyth. Dim ond y lleiaf o’r rhain a adroddwyd yn swyddogol gan y Gweinidog dros Ddatblygu Economaidd yr wythnos diwethaf. Bwriwyd trafferthion y gweithwyr yn Dewhirst, Aberteifi ac Elizabeth the Chef yn Aberystwyth i ebargofiant. Er hynny, yr oedd y Gweinidog yn fwy na pharod i adrodd i’r Pwyllgor fod darn o dir ger Tesco yn Aberteifi wedi’i brynu gan ddatblygwr eiddo, efallai ar gyfer datblygiad arwerthu, efallai ar gyfer Marks & Spencer. Mae datblygwyr eiddo sy’n addo siop Marks & Spencer wedi mynd a dod dros yr 20 mlynedd diwethaf yng Ngheredigion. Nid yw gwerthiannau eiddo anturiol yn haeddu cael eu hadrodd gan Weinidog Cynulliad i’r Pwyllgor, ac yntau’n ceisio celu newyddion drwg dan newyddion ymddangosiadol dda. Mae’n werth cofio bod gweinidogion sy’n arfer tactegau o’r fath wedi colli eu swyddi yn y gorffennol.
Secondly, still spinning, the Minister went on in Committee last week to describe Wales’s ‘very health manufacturing sector’. This was substantiated by reporting the creation of 25,000 jobs in manufacturing over the last year, but not forgetting the loss of 30,000 jobs, also in manufacturing. The Minister reports a net loss of 5,000 jobs in manufacturing to Committee and still tries to hail the healthy state of that sector. The Minister failed completely to mention that manufacturing output of the last four quarters was down 7.3 per cent in Wales on the same period last year. There is certainly denial there, if not a degree of panic.
yn Saesneg Yn ail, gan ddal i sbinio, aeth y Gweinidog yn ei flaen yn y Pwyllgor yr wythnos diwethaf i ddisgrifio’r ‘sector gweithgynhyrchu iach iawn’ sydd gan Gymru. Cyfiawnhawyd hynny drwy adrodd am greu 25,000 o swyddi mewn gweithgynhyrchu dros y flwyddyn a aeth heibio, ond gan anghofio’r golled o 30,000 o swyddi, hefyd mewn gweithgynhyrchu. Mae’r Gweinidog yn adrodd am golled net o 5,000 o swyddi mewn gweithgynhyrchu i’r Pwyllgor ac yn dal i gyfeirio at gyflwr iach y sector hwnnw. Ni soniodd y Gweinidog o gwbl fod y cynnyrch gweithgynhyrchu dros y pedwar chwarter blwyddyn diwethaf yn 7.3 y cant yn is yng Nghymru nag yn yr un cyfnod y llynedd. Mae’n sicr bod ymwadu yn hynny, os nad rhywfaint o banig.
Finally, in The Western Mail that day, it seemed to me that the Minister had gone into spin overdrive. He is reported as saying that:
yn Saesneg Yn olaf, yn The Western Mail y diwrnod hwnnw, ymddangosai i mi fod y Gweinidog yn gorweithio’i sbin. Adroddir iddo ddweud:
‘Wales is doing better than England in gaining more jobs, reducing the numbers out of work, and in offering more opportunities for work to groups such as women and children’.
yn Saesneg ‘Mae Cymru’n gwneud yn well na Lloegr o ran cael rhagor o swyddi, lleihau niferoedd y di-waith, a chynnig mwy o gyfleoedd gwaith i grwpiau fel menywod a phlant’.
I know that the Government has a life-long agenda on learning, but I had not realised that the same applied to working. When he responds, perhaps the Minister might like to expand on his policy of offering more work opportunities to children. Such a policy might well give a little boost to our relative gross domestic product, and as such might be the Government’s only economic policy contributing to meeting its GDP target.
yn Saesneg Gwn fod gan y Llywodraeth agenda ar ddysgu gydol oes, ond nid oeddwn wedi sylweddoli bod hynny’n wir hefyd am weithio. Pan fydd yn ymateb, efallai y carai’r Gweinidog ymhelaethu ar ei bolisi o gynnig mwy o gyfleoedd gwaith i blant. Gallai polisi o’r fath roi hwb bach i’n cynnyrch mewnwladol crynswth cymharol, ac yn hynny o beth mae’n bosibl mai hwnnw fyddai’r unig bolisi economaidd o eiddo’r Llywodraeth sy’n cyfrannu at gyrraedd ei tharged CMC.
Nid wyf yn amau na chlywn fwy o sbin cyn diwedd y ddadl hon, gydag ambell wleidydd yn neidio i fyny ac i lawr yn gweiddi ‘gwae, gwae’. Fodd bynnag, nid oes diddordeb gennyf i ddilyn y naill drywydd na’r llall. Gwrthodaf y ddau welliant i’r cynnig hwn. Gwrthodaf welliant 1 Carwyn Jones gan nad oes gennym ffydd yn strategaeth ‘Cymru’n Ennill’ y Llywodraeth â’i thargedau cwbl afrealistig—‘structure without foundation’, fel y’i gelwir yn rhifyn diweddaraf Planet.
in Welsh I do not doubt that we will hear more spin before the end of this debate, with one or two politicians jumping up and down shouting, ‘shame, shame’. However, I am not interested in either of those paths. I reject the two amendments to this motion. I reject Carwyn Jones’s amendment 1 because we have no faith in the Government’s strategy, ‘A Winning Wales’, with its utterly unrealistic targets—‘structure without foundation’, as it is called in the latest issue of Planet.
Ar welliant 2 Jonathan Morgan, nid ydym yn barod i aberthu polisi rhanbarthol clir tymor hir am reoli argyfwng yn y tymor byr. Er ein bod yn credu bod colledion swyddi’r Gorllewin yn haeddu pecyn adfywio penodol gan y Llywodraeth, byddem wedi cefnogi’r gwelliant pe bai wedi ychwanegu at ein cynnig yn hytrach na dileu rhan ohono. Ar fater etholaethol, yn sgîl colledion swyddi yng Ngheredigion, croesawaf ddatganiad y Gweinidog i’r Pwyllgor Datblygu Economaidd yr wythnos diwethaf y bydd yn ystyried yn ofalus gynlluniau adfywio a fydd yn ymateb i’r colledion swyddi gan Gyngor Sir Ceredigion a phartneriaid eraill pan ddônt o flaen y Gweinidog cyn bo hir.
in Welsh On Jonathan Morgan’s amendment 2, we are not willing to sacrifice a clear long-term regional policy for the sake of crisis management in the short term. Although we believe that job losses in west Wales deserve a specific regeneration package from the Government, we would have supported the amendment had it added to our motion rather than detracted from it. On a constituency issue, in the wake of job losses in Ceredigion, I welcome the Minister’s statement to the Economic Development Committee last week that he will give careful consideration to regeneration plans proposed by Ceredigion County Council and other partners in resopnse to job losses when they come before the Minister in the near future.
Fy mwriad yw cynnig ambell sylw penodol ar strategaeth economaidd y Llywodraeth, ond, yn bwysicach, ambell syniad amgen ar gyfer twf yr economi.
in Welsh My intention is to make a few specific comments on the Government’s economic development strategy, and, more importantly, to offer a few alternative ideas for economic growth.
Mae’r ddadl hon yn digwydd yng nghysgod colli 2,000 o swyddi o economi’r Gorllewin dros y chwe mis diwethaf, a cholli 1,000 o swyddi y drws nesaf bron i’r fan hon yn Allied Steel and Wire—gweithwyr sydd yn wynebu colli pensiwn yn ogystal â’u swyddi. Gobeithiaf fod Llywodraeth y Cynulliad yn rhoi pob cefnogaeth i weithwyr ASW wrth iddynt drafod eu hawl i bensiwn â Gweinidog Pensiynau San Steffan. Dywedodd y Trefnydd yn y Siambr ar sawl achlysur nad mater i’r Cynulliad yw hyn, ac mai mater heb ei ddatganoli ydyw. Fodd bynnag, fe fyddwn yn taeru mai cyfrifoldeb y Cynulliad yw cynrychioli buddiannau gweithwyr Cymru, a gobeithiaf y gall y Gweinidog dros Ddatblygu Economaidd roi’r wybodaeth ddiweddaraf inni ar sefyllfa ASW a pharhad gwaith dur ar y safle hwnnw.
in Welsh This debate is held in the shadow of the loss of 2,000 jobs in the west Wales economy over the past six months, and the loss of 1,000 jobs almost next door to the Assembly in Allied Steel and Wire—workers who face losing their pensions as well as their jobs. I hope that the Assembly Government will give its full support to ASW workers as they discuss their right to a pension with the Minister for Pensions in Westminster. The Business Minister has said in the Chamber on numerous occasions that this is not a matter for the Assembly, and that it is a non-devolved matter. However, I could have sworn that the Assembly had a responsibility for the welfare of Wales’s workers, and I hope that the Minister for Economic Development will be able to update us on the ASW situation and the continuation of steel production on that site.
Creu 135,000 o swyddi ychwanegol erbyn 2010 yw un o dargedau’r Llywodraeth. Mae diffyg eglurder sylweddol ar ddata creu a chadw swyddi, heb sôn am yr anallu i gadw data cynhwysfawr ar golli swyddi. Er hyn, y brif broblem â tharged o’r fath yw y gallai mwyafrif helaeth y swyddi hynny fod yn un neu ddwy ran o’r wlad, a fyddai’n galluogi’r Llywodraeth i ddatgan llwyddiant, heb i rannau helaeth o Gymru gael eu cyffwrdd gan y llwyddiant honedig hwn. Dyna sydd yn digwydd—cyhoeddir y rhan fwyaf o swyddi newydd ar hyd coridorau yr M4 a’r A55.
in Welsh One of the Government’s targets is to create 135,000 additional jobs by 2010. There is a serious lack of clarity in the data on creating and retaining jobs, not to mention the inability to compile comprehensive data on job losses. However, the main problem with such a target is that the majority of those jobs could be created in one or two parts of the country, which would enable the Government to claim success, event though large parts of Wales would not have been touched by this apparent success. That is what happens—the majority of new jobs announced are created along the M4 and A55 corridors.
Mae’n rhaid creu targedau rhanbarthol realistig ar gyfer creu swyddi, fel bod cymhelliad gwirioneddol i’r sector cyhoeddus wasgaru cyfleon economaidd i bob cwr o’r wlad. Nid ymarfer symbolaidd na simplistig fyddai gosod targedau rhanbarthol, ac ni fyddem yn rhannu 135,000 rhwng 4 rhanbarth neu 22 ardal leol. Yn gyntaf, byddem yn ailystyried y pedwar rhanbarth economaidd presennol—perthyn i benderfyniad gwleidyddol yn y 1970au y mae gwraidd y pedwar rhanbarth hyn. Mae deinameg economaidd y Gorllewin yn wahanol i un y Dwyrain. Mae hynny’n realiti.
in Welsh We must create realistic regional targets for creating jobs, so that there is a real incentive for the public sector to extend employment opportunities to all parts of the country. Setting regional targets would not be tokenistic or simplistic, and we would not share 135,000 between 4 regions or 22 local areas. First, we would reconsider the four economic development regions—these four regions are the result of a political decision taken in the 1970s. The economic dynamic of west Wales is different to that of east Wales. That is a reality.
Brian Gibbons a gododd—
Brian Gibbons rose—
John Marek The Deputy Presiding Officer spoken in English p. 78
John Marek Y Dirprwy Lywydd siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 78
Are you giving way to Brian, Elin?
A ydych yn ildio i Brian, Elin?
Nac ydwyf. Dywedais ar ddechrau’r ddadl nad wyf yn bwriadu rhoi amser i’r Blaid Lafur. Os yw Llywodraeth y Blaid Lafur am gynnig dadl ar yr economi, yr wyf yn siŵr y caiff pawb o’r blaid Lafur gyfle i gyfrannu bryd hynny. Nid wyf am roi fy amser prin fel aelod o’r wrthblaid i hynny.
No. I said at the beginning of the debate that I do not intend to give time to the Labour Party. If the Labour Party Government wishes to propose a debate on the economy, I am sure that everyone from the Labour Party will have an opportunity to contribute then. I will not give up my limited time as a member of the opposition for that.
Mae realiti economaidd y Cymoedd—yng Ngwent a Morgannwg—hefyd yn wahanol i realiti economaidd arfordir y De. Mae angen rhanbarthau sydd yn gwneud synnwyr yn economaidd ac yn gymdeithasol. Mae angen asesiad clir o’r economi a’r farchnad lafur yn y rhanbarthau hynny. Dylid rhoi polisi cyflogaeth yng nghanol ein polisi economaidd.
The economic reality in the Valleys—in Gwent and Glamorgan—is also different to the economic reality on the south Wales coast. We need regions that make economic and social sense. We need a clear assessment of the economy and the labour market in those regions. We should have an employment policy at the heart of our economic policy.
Yr wyf yn wleidydd sydd byth a hefyd yn clochdar am ddiffyg swyddi i gadw pobl ifanc yng nghefn gwlad. Fodd bynnag, ar yr un pryd yr wyf yn cydnabod bod prinder trydanwyr, nyrsys seiciatryddol a deintyddion, er enghraifft, yn fy etholaeth. Yn aml, mae camgymhariad llwyr o sgiliau, gweithgaredd a swyddi mewn ardaloedd, a rhaid i’r sector cyhoeddus allu asesu’r patrymau hyn a chynnig polisïau a thargedau rhanbarthol i wireddu potensial cymunedau. Creu swyddi ar hyd a lled Cymru, nid mewn un neu ddwy ran, yw nod Plaid Cymru.
I am a politician who is always sounding off about the lack of jobs to keep young people in rural Wales. However, at the same time I accept that there is a shortage of electricians, psychiatric nurses, and dentists, for example, in my constituency. Often, there is a total mismatch of skills, activity and jobs in areas, and the public sector must be able to assess these patterns and implement regional policies and targets to allow these communities to reach their potential. Plaid Cymru’s aim is to create jobs in all parts of Wales, not in one or two areas.
Mae angen creu canolfannau twf o fewn y rhanbarthau ar gyfer datganoli swyddi sector cyhoeddus o Gaerdydd, sydd yn hwyluso’r datblygiad busnes, buddsoddi mewn trafnidiaeth a chyfathrebu, a hyrwyddo bywyd cymdeithasol a chelfyddydol. Caerdydd yw’r magned mawr ar hyn o bryd, ond mae’n rhaid sicrhau bod ambell dref ac ardal arall yn fagnedau i’n pobl ifanc.
We need to create growth centres within the regions to facilitate the devolution of public sector jobs from Cardiff, which in turn facilitates business development, investment in transport and communication, and the promotion of social and cultural activities. Cardiff is the magnet at present but we must ensure that other towns and areas are magnets for our young people.
Targed arall y Llywodraeth yw i lefel cynnyrch mewnwladol crynswth Cymru gyrraedd 90 y cant o lefel CMC y Deyrnas Gyfunol, ac i wireddu hyn, mae’n rhaid i economi Cymru dyfu dros 4 y cant y flwyddyn. Nid yw’r un rhagamcan annibynnol yn rhagweld hyn. Ar ei orau, gellir disgwyl twf o rhwng 1 a 2 y cant. Yn ogystal â hyn, mae’r Trysorlys yn rhagweld yr economi yn gyffredinol yn arafu ymhellach, ond hyd yn hyn, nid yw’r Llywodraeth wedi gwneud datganiad neu ddehongliad ar sut y bydd twf arafach yn effeithio ar ei tharged yng Nghymru. Rhaid rhoi mwy o gyfeiriad a ffocws i bolisi economaidd y Cynulliad. Er bod mwy o arian yn mynd at ddatblygu’r economi erbyn hyn, mae angen mesur llwyddiant drwy allbwn, nid drwy fewnbwn. Mae’n rhaid i ni ganolbwyntio’n strategaeth economaidd ar gwmnïau sydd wedi’i sefydlu yng Nghymru, ac sydd yn tyfu—boed hynny fel cwmni cynhenid neu gwmni sydd wedi symud i Gymru gyda’i bencadlys yng Nghymru.
Another Government target is for the level of gross domestic product to reach 90 per cent of the UK GDP, and to achieve this the economy of Wales must grow over 4 per cent per annum. Not one independent forecast predicts this. At best we can expect between 1 and 2 per cent growth. In addition to this, the Treasury predicts a further slow down in the economy as a whole, but so far the Government has made no statement or provided an analysis as to how slower growth will affect its target in Wales. The Assembly’s economic development policy needs greater focus and direction. Although there is more money going into economic development, success is measured through output rather than input. We must concentrate our economic development strategy on Wales-based companies that are growing—be they indigenous to Wales or companies that have moved to Wales and have their headquarters in Wales.
Wrth gwrs bod croeso i gwmnïau o’r tu allan sefydlu a chreu gwaith yng Nghymru, ond mae adnoddau’r Cynulliad a’r sector cyhoeddus yn gyfynedig, felly, rhaid asesu pob cwmni sydd yn mewnfuddsoddi a chefnogi yn ariannol y rhai sydd yn cynnig gwerth ychwanegol tymor hir i’r economi Gymreig yn unig. Dylid sianelu cymorth i’r busnesau sydd yn awyddus ac sydd yn gallu tyfu. Mae adnoddau’r Cynulliad yn brin, a rhaid buddsoddi lle bynnag y bydd yr elw mwyaf i Gymru. Dylid adnabod y busnesau sydd yn tyfu, drwy Gymru, mewn unrhyw faes, a’u gosod ar raglen benodol o gefnogaeth gan yr asiantaethau cyhoeddus i gynnwys cyllid, marchnata, recriwtio a hyfforddiant.
Of course companies from outside Wales are welcome to establish and create work in Wales but Assembly and public sector resources are limited, and, therefore, we must assess each company that invests in Wales and only offer financial assistance to those offering long-term added value to the Welsh economy. We should channel assistance to those businesses that are eager and able to grow. The Assembly’s resources are limited and we must invest wherever the greatest return for Wales may be. We should discover the businesses that are growing, throughout Wales, in any field, and place them on a specific public agency support programme to involve finance, marketing, recruitment and training.
Beth sydd wedi newid yn y maes datblygu economaidd ers 1999? Mae tipyn bach mwy o arian, ceir Dysgu ac Addysgu Cymru yn lle’r Cynghorau Hyfforddiant a Menter, Cyllid Cymru o dan Awdurdod Datblygu Cymru, grantiau buddsoddi’r Cynulliad, ac arian Amcan 1—bydd Phil Williams yn sôn mwy am hynny nes ymlaen. Fodd bynnag, mae gwrthdrawiad y newidiadau hyn ar yr economi yn ymylol, ac mae’r strwythurau a’r syniadaeth yn parhau yr un peth. Mae dros hanner yr arian cymorth rhanbarthol dewisol yn dal i fynd i gwmnïau tramor, ac i’r busnesau sydd eisiau ehangu, mae’r system yn parhau i fod mor gymhleth ag erioed—os nad yn fwy cymhleth. Mae posibilrwydd cryf bod yn rhaid i fusnesau o hyd siarad â chynrychiolwyr o’r Cynulliad, y WDA, yr awdurdod lleol, ac ELWa cyn iddynt ddod o hyd i’r gefnogaeth sydd ei hangen arnynt. Mae’r drefn fiwrocrataidd yn fyw ac yn iach—sydd yn fwy na ellid ei ddweud am economi Cymru.
What has changed in the field of economic development since 1999? There is a little more money, we have ELWa instead of the Training and Enterprise Councils, Finance Wales under the Welsh Development Agency, Assembly investment grants, and Objective 1 money—Phil Williams will talk about that later. However, the impact of these changes on the economy is marginal, and the structures and ideologies remain the same. Over half of the regional selective assistance is paid to foreign companies, and for those businesses that wish to expand, the system remains as complex as ever—if not more complex. There is a strong possibility that businesses will still have to discuss the matter with representatives from the Assembly, the WDA, the local authority and ELWa before they find the assistance that they need. The bureaucratic status quo is alive and well—which is more than can be said for the Welsh economy.
Rhaid i ni gael Llywodraeth sydd yn barod i gynllunio a rhoi ffocws er mwyn trawsnewid ein sector busnes a chreu twf cynaliadwy er mwyn gwasgaru cyfleoedd gwaith yn gymdeithasol ac yn ddaearyddol. Cefnogwch y cynnig.
We must have a Government that is willing to plan and focus on transforming our business sector and creating sustainable growth in order to spread job opportunities socially and geographically. Support the motion.
John Marek The Deputy Presiding Officer spoken in English p. 80
John Marek Y Dirprwy Lywydd siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 80
I have a list of 15 speakers and I intend to apply a time limit of three minutes on most. However, those proposing amendments will have five minutes, the Minister responding for the Executive will have eight minutes, and the speaker replying to the debate will have four minutes.
Mae gennyf restr o 15 o siaradwyr a bwriadaf osod terfyn amser o dair munud ar y rhan fwyaf ohonynt. Fodd bynnag, caiff y rhai sy’n cynnig gwelliannau bum munud, caiff y Gweinidog sy’n ymateb dros y Weithrediaeth wyth munud, a chaiff y siaradwr sy’n ymateb i’r ddadl bedair munud.
Andrew Davies The Minister for Economic Development spoken in English p. 80
Andrew Davies Y Gweinidog dros Ddatblygu Economaidd siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 80
I propose amendment 1 in the name of Carwyn Jones. Delete all after ‘Assembly’ and replace with:
Cynigiaf welliant 1 yn enw Carwyn Jones. Dileu popeth ar ôl y geiriau ‘Cynulliad Cenedlaethol’ a rhoi, yn lle hynny:
I propose amendment 2 in the name of Jonathan Morgan. In point 4, delete:
Cynigiaf welliant 2 yn enw Jonathan Morgan. Ym mhwynt 4, dileu:
There is no doubt that the economy will be a central theme in the run-up to next May’s election, and like Elin Jones, I am disappointed that this matter is being discussed in an opposition party’s debate rather than in Government time. It is clear that the Assembly Government, namely the Liberal Democrats and the Labour Party, is on the ropes over regenerating the economy because the public’s greatest expectation is the positive transformation of the Welsh economy.
Nid oes amheuaeth na fydd yr economi’n thema ganolog yn y cyfnod cyn yr etholiad fis Mai nesaf, ac fel Elin Jones, yr wyf yn siomedig bod y mater hwn yn cael ei drafod mewn dadl o eiddo un o’r gwrthbleidiau yn hytrach nag yn amser y Llywodraeth. Mae’n amlwg bod Llywodraeth y Cynulliad, sef y Democratiaid Rhyddfrydol a’r Blaid Lafur, wedi’i llorio bron ynghylch adfywio’r economi gan mai’r disgwyliad pennaf ymysg y cyhoedd yw y caiff economi Cymru ei thrawsnewid er gwell.
The Assembly Government’s response is ‘A Winning Wales’, the national economic development strategy. This document has been widely ridiculed and failed to gain the endorsement of the Economic Development Committee, despite it having a Government majority. The wealth gap between Wales and the rest of the United Kingdom cannot be allowed to continue to widen. The public has a right to expect an improvement in the Welsh economy. The current gap between Wales and the rest of the United Kingdom is the worst we have experienced in a generation. At 80 per cent of the UK GDP per capita, our economy has never been in a worse state. It was alarming to hear even the Business Minister, during questions to the First Minister, speak in a vitriolic manner about how the economy had been transformed. Unless he accepts that Wales is poorer than England, Scotland and the rest of the United Kingdom, we cannot be confident that the Government will develop the right policies.
Ymateb Llywodraeth y Cynulliad yw ‘Cymru’n Ennill’, y strategaeth datblygu economaidd genedlaethol. Mae’r ddogfen hon yn destun sbort gan lawer a methodd ag ennill cymeradwyaeth y Pwyllgor Datblygu Economaidd, er bod gan y Llywodraeth fwyafrif arno. Ni ellir caniatáu i’r bwlch cyfoeth rhwng Cymru a gweddill y Deyrnas Unedig barhau i ehangu. Mae gan y cyhoedd hawl i ddisgwyl gwelliant yn economi Cymru. Y bwlch presennol rhwng Cymru a gweddill y Deyrnas Unedig yw’r gwaethaf a brofasom mewn cenhedlaeth. Ar 80 y cant o gynnyrch mewnwladol crynswth y pen y DU, ni fu ein heconomi erioed mewn gwaeth cyflwr. Brawychus oedd clywed hyd yn oed y Trefnydd, yn ystod y cwestiynau i Brif Weinidog Cymru, yn siarad yn frathog am y modd y mae’r economi wedi’i thrawsnewid. Oni bai ei fod yn derbyn bod Cymru’n dlotach na Lloegr, yr Alban a gweddill y Deyrnas Unedig, ni allwn fod yn ffyddiog y bydd y Llywodraeth yn datblygu’r polisïau iawn.
The Minister for Economic Development’s reaction last week to the fact that 30,000 manufacturing jobs have been lost over the last year either demonstrated complacency or a lack of understanding of the root causes. He said that he was pleased to announce that 25,000 new manufacturing jobs had been created. The mathematics is not complicated. Five thousand manufacturing jobs have been lost over the last year, although the overall economy is growing, albeit slowly. What does the Minister expect will happen when the overall economy goes into recession? By how much must that 5,000 be multiplied before he appreciates that this is a crisis and that manufacturing is in meltdown and officially in recession?
Yr oedd ymateb y Gweinidog dros Ddatblygu Economaidd yr wythnos diwethaf i’r ffaith bod 30,000 o swyddi gweithgynhyrchu wedi’u colli dros y flwyddyn ddiwethaf yn dangos un ai difaterwch neu ddiffyg dealltwriaeth o’r achosion sylfaenol. Dywedodd ei fod yn falch o gyhoeddi bod 25,000 o swyddi gweithgynhyrchu newydd wedi’u creu. Nid yw’r fathemateg yn gymhleth. Collwyd 5,000 o swyddi gweithgynhyrchu dros y flwyddyn ddiwethaf, er bod yr economi gyfan yn tyfu, er yn araf. Beth y mae’r Gweinidog yn ei ragweld pan aiff yr economi gyfan i ddirwasgiad? O faint y bydd yn rhaid lluosi’r 5,000 hynny cyn iddo ddeall mai argyfwng yw hwn a bod gweithgynhyrchu’n ymddatod ac mewn dirwasgiad yn swyddogol?
In forecasting economic growth, the Minister showed a complete disregard for logic. Common sense says that, as the Treasury downgraded its UK growth projections, the Welsh economy would also suffer. Even the Chancellor of the Exchequer recognised that his original projection of a 2 per cent to 2.5 per cent growth this year was unrealistic, and the figure was downgraded to 1.6 per cent. A slowdown in economic fortunes across the border and in the UK in general clearly damages the Welsh economy.
Wrth broffwydo twf economaidd, yr oedd y Gweinidog yn llwyr ddiystyru rhesymeg. Synnwyr cyffredin yw gweld, gan fod y Trysorlys wedi gostwng ei ragamcaniadau am dwf yn y DU, y byddai economi Cymru hefyd yn dioddef. Yr oedd hyd yn oed Canghellor y Trysorlys yn cydnabod bod ei ragamcaniad gwreiddiol o dwf o 2 y cant i 2.5 y cant eleni yn afrealistig, a gostyngwyd y ffigur i 1.6 y cant. Mae’n amlwg bod arafiad yn y ffyniant economaidd dros y ffin ac yn y DU yn gyffredinol yn peri niwed i economi Cymru.
At the beginning of the year, Oxford Economic Forecasting and Cambridge Econometrics predicted that the Welsh economy would grow by 1 per cent. At that time, economic growth projections were much more positive and the UK economy was expected to grow by 2 per cent to 2.5 per cent. Therefore, the Welsh economy must now be teetering on the brink of recession.
Ar ddechrau’r flwyddyn, proffwydodd Oxford Economic Forecasting a Cambridge Econometrics y byddai economi Cymru’n tyfu 1 y cant. Bryd hynny, yr oedd y rhagamcaniadau am dwf economaidd yn llawer mwy cadarnhaol ac yr oedd disgwyl i economi’r DU dyfu ar gyfradd o 2 y cant i 2.5 y cant. Felly, mae’n rhaid bod economi Cymru bellach yn gwegian ar ymyl dirwasgiad.
To achieve the Assembly Government targets contained in ‘A Winning Wales’, some of our most deprived communities would have to achieve double-digit growth figures. That is unheard of, unrealistic and it undermines the document’s credibility. Unless the Assembly Government accepts the reality of the situation, what hope is there that it will develop the right policies to address the root cause of the problem?
Er mwyn cyrraedd targedau Llywodraeth y Cynulliad yn ‘Cymru’n Ennill’, byddai’n rhaid i rai o’n cymunedau mwyaf difreintiedig sicrhau twf mewn ffigurau dwbl. Mae hynny’n anhygoel, yn afrealistig ac mae’n tanseilio hygrededd y ddogfen. Oni bai fod Llywodraeth y Cynulliad yn derbyn y gwir am y sefyllfa, pa obaith sydd iddi ddatblygu’r polisïau iawn i ymdrin ag achos sylfaenol y broblem?
The economic development budget line received one of the lowest increases in last week’s budget. The Government is under so much pressure to improve public services that it forgets that a prospering economy would remove pressure on other problem areas such as health inequalities, poor housing and education deficiencies.
Llinell gyllideb datblygu economaidd a gafodd un o’r codiadau lleiaf yn y gyllideb yr wythnos diwethaf. Mae’r Llywodraeth o dan gymaint o bwysau i wella gwasanaethau cyhoeddus fel ei bod yn anghofio y byddai economi ffyniannus yn dileu’r pwysau ar feysydd problemus eraill megis anghydraddoldebau iechyd, tai gwael a diffygion mewn addysg.
The budget of Wales’s key public sector economic driver, the Welsh Development Agency, was only increased at the rate of inflation, even though it has been given greater responsibilities in its latest strategic guidance letter. That is a cut in real terms, particularly when the increases in employers’ tax are taken into account.
Dim ond cynnydd ar gyfradd chwyddiant a gafodd cyllideb prif ysgogydd economaidd Cymru yn y sector cyhoeddus, Awdurdod Datblygu Cymru, er iddo gael cyfrifoldebau mwy yn ei lythyr cyfarwyddyd strategol diweddaraf. Mae hynny’n doriad mewn gwirionedd, yn enwedig pan ystyrir y cynnydd yn y dreth ar gyflogwyr.
The Assembly Government has shown that it prefers to answer the symptoms rather than the causes of a poor economy. There must be an efficient strategy to deliver a long-term, sustained economic transformation. There must be a focus on infrastructure, simplicity in business support, gaining a competitive advantage and diversifying the Welsh economy.
Mae Llywodraeth y Cynulliad wedi dangos ei bod yn well ganddi geisio trin symptomau yn hytrach nag achosion yr economi wael. Rhaid wrth strategaeth effeithlon i gyflawni trawsnewid economaidd parhaol, tymor hir. Rhaid canolbwyntio ar seilwaith, symlrwydd mewn cymorth busnes, sicrhau mantais gystadleuol ac amrywiaethu yn economi Cymru.
When 2,200 jobs were lost in south-east Wales, an all-Wales steel taskforce was announced within a day, the taskforce met within a month and a £66 million package was offered within three months. When 2,339 were lost in south-west Wales, no similar support was offered. That demonstrates the Assembly Government’s schizophrenic approach to developing the economy.
Pan gollwyd 2,200 o swyddi yn y De-ddwyrain, cyhoeddwyd tasglu dur Cymru gyfan o fewn y diwrnod, cyfarfu’r tasglu o fewn mis a chynigiwyd pecyn o £66 miliwn o fewn tri mis. Pan gollwyd 2,339 o swyddi yn y De-orllewin, ni chynigiwyd cymorth tebyg. Mae hynny’n dangos dull sgitsoffrenaidd Llywodraeth y Cynulliad o ddatblygu’r economi.
Rhodri Glyn Thomas a gododd—
Rhodri Glyn Thomas rose—
I do not have time to give way. The Government seems to suggest in ‘A Winning Wales’ that we must focus on the softer issues. However, when faced by a crisis in south-east Wales, it starts throwing money at the real generators, such as infrastructure and transport. The Government’s policy is unequal, as it does not show similar priority or funding to areas hit by the loss of manufacturing jobs and rural decline.
Nid oes gennyf ddigon o amser i ildio. Mae’n ymddangos bod y Llywodraeth yn awgrymu yn ‘Cymru’n Ennill’ fod rhaid inni ganolbwyntio ar y materion haws. Fodd bynnag, pan yw’n wynebu argyfwng yn y De-ddwyrain, mae’n dechrau taflu arian at y gwir symbylwyr, megis seilwaith a thrafnidiaeth. Mae polisi’r Llywodraeth yn anghyfartal, gan nad yw’n rhoi blaenoriaeth neu arian tebyg i ardaloedd y mae colli swyddi gweithgynhyrchu a dirywiad gwledig yn effeithio arnynt.
I declare an interest as a member of the Transport and General Workers Union. I am pleased to speak in this debate, which is the regular Plaid attempt to scaremonger and undermine Objective 1. This type of debate has become a ritual. However, it is worth reminding Members of Plaid’s record so far. First, Plaid Cymru claimed that we would never be granted Objective 1 status. It was proved wrong when a Labour Prime Minister announced that that status had been secured. Then it said that we would never receive the funding from the Government. Again, Labour delivered. Despite repeated attempts it has no answer to the fact that no good project will be turned down due to lack of funding. After only two years, it says that the programme is a failure. Plaid Cymru has been proved wrong every time on Objective 1, so people could be forgiven for asking why they should believe it this time.
Datganaf fuddiant fel aelod o Undeb y Gweithwyr Trafnidiaeth a Chyffredinol. Yr wyf yn falch o siarad yn y ddadl hon, sef yr ymgais reolaidd gan Blaid Cymru i godi bwganod a thanseilio Amcan 1. Aeth y math hwn o ddadl yn ddefod. Er hynny, mae’n werth atgoffa’r Aelodau am record Plaid Cymru hyd yn hyn. Yn gyntaf, honnodd Plaid Cymru na fyddem byth yn cael statws Amcan 1. Fe’i profwyd yn anghywir pan gyhoeddodd Prif Weinidog Llafur fod y statws hwnnw wedi’i sicrhau. Wedyn dywedodd na fyddem byth yn derbyn y cyllid gan y Llywodraeth. Unwaith eto, aeth Llafur â’r maen i’r wal. Er ceisio hynny dro ar ôl tro nid oes ganddi ateb i’r ffaith na wrthodir unrhyw brosiect da oherwydd prinder arian. Ar ôl dim ond dwy flynedd, dywed fod y rhaglen yn fethiant. Profwyd Plaid Cymru’n anghywir bob tro ar Amcan 1, felly gellid maddau i bobl am ofyn pam y dylid ei chredu y tro hwn.
However, Plaid Cymru is right to mention the job losses announced over the summer. No community, including my own, has been left untouched by job losses. However, that is far from being the full story. Unemployment in Torfaen has fallen to 3.7 per cent; a level that was unthinkable during the Tory years. Long-term youth unemployment has fallen by 80 per cent since 1997. Between 1998 and the beginning of this year, 703 people found work through the New Deal. We have the best economic circumstances for over a generation, with inflation, interest rates and unemployment at record lows.
Fodd bynnag, mae Plaid Cymru’n iawn wrth sôn am y colledion swyddi a gyhoeddwyd dros yr haf. Nid oes yr un gymuned, gan gynnwys fy un i fy hun, nas cyffyrddwyd gan golledion swyddi. Er hynny, nid honno yw’r stori gyfan o bell ffordd. Mae diweithdra yn Nhor-faen wedi gostwng i 3.7 y cant; lefel na ellid ei dychmygu yn ystod blynyddoedd y Torïaid. Mae diweithdra tymor hir ymysg pobl ifanc wedi disgyn o 80 y cant ers 1997. Rhwng 1998 a dechrau’r flwyddyn hon, mae 703 o bobl wedi dod o hyd i waith drwy’r Fargen Newydd. Mae gennym yr amgylchiadau economaidd gorau ers dros genhedlaeth, gyda chwyddiant, cyfraddau llog a diweithdra ar eu hisaf erioed.
One test of a Government is how it responds to job losses and what it offers to the communities affected. The Tories failed this test, consigning entire communities to the fate of the markets. Plaid Cymru would also fail the test, as it offers false hope to workers and communities. At times, private companies will take decisions for their own commercial interests, regardless of what Government says or does, as was the case with Corus. Torfaen has suffered as much as most communities from job losses, but my constituents know that there is no magic wand.
Un prawf ar Lywodraeth yw’r modd y mae’n ymateb i golledion swyddi a beth y mae’n ei gynnig i’r cymunedau yr effeithiwyd arnynt. Methodd y Torïaid y prawf hwn, gan adael cymunedau cyfan i’w tynged ar drugaredd y marchnadoedd. Byddai Plaid Cymru’n methu’r prawf hefyd, gan ei bod yn cynnig gobaith ffug i weithwyr a chymunedau. Ar brydiau, bydd cwmnïau preifat yn gwneud penderfyniadau er eu budd masnachol eu hunain, ni waeth beth a ddywed neu a wna Llywodraeth, fel y digwyddodd yn achos Corus. Mae Tor-faen wedi dioddef cymaint â’r rhan fwyaf o gymunedau gan golledion swyddi, ond gŵyr fy etholwyr i nad oes hudlath i’w chwifio.
David Davies a gododd—
David Davies rose—
I do not have time to give way. My constituents expect the Government to negotiate with unions and companies to help keep jobs in Wales, and they expect it to offer investment to communities to help them get back on their feet. They have had that from the Labour Governments in Westminster and the Assembly.
Nid oes gennyf ddigon o amser i ildio. Mae fy etholwyr yn disgwyl i’r Llywodraeth negodi gydag undebau a chwmnïau i helpu i gadw swyddi yng Nghymru, a disgwyliant iddi gynnig buddsoddi mewn cymunedau i’w helpu i godi ar eu traed eto. Cawsant hynny gan y Llywodraethau Llafur yn San Steffan ac yn y Cynulliad.
However, there is still more that we can do, particularly in terms of the manufacturing industry. We must strengthen the rights of workers to be consulted and stop it being the easy option to make British workers redundant.
Er hynny, mae mwy y gallwn ei wneud eto, yn enwedig yng nghyd-destun y diwydiannau gweithgynhyrchu. Rhaid inni gryfhau hawliau gweithwyr o ran ymgynghori a rhoi terfyn ar y dewis hawdd o ddiswyddo gweithwyr Prydain.
People will not be fooled by Plaid Cymru’s false prophecies and hopes. To borrow a phrase from Neil Kinnock—[Laughter.] I am proud to use a phrase by Neil Kinnock. Plaid Cymru must learn that you cannot play politics with people’s jobs.
Ni thwyllir neb gan ffug broffwydoliaethau a gobeithion Plaid Cymru. A chymryd benthyg un o ddywediadau Neil Kinnock—[Chwerthin.] Yr wyf yn falch o ddefnyddio un o ddywediadau Neil Kinnock. Rhaid i Blaid Cymru ddysgu na allwch chwarae gwleidyddiaeth â swyddi pobl.
I declare an interest as a member of a partnership that is making an application for Objective 1 money. For this debate, I will speak more as a scientist than as a politician. I will not attack anyone, I will simply present facts—all of which can be checked—and let them speak for themselves. Facts are tougher and less forgiving than politicians.
Datganaf fuddiant fel aelod o bartneriaeth sy’n gwneud cais am arian Amcan 1. Yn y ddadl hon, siaradaf yn fwy fel gwyddonydd nag fel gwleidydd. Nid ymosodaf ar neb, dim ond cyflwyno’r ffeithiau—y gellir gwirio pob un ohonynt—a gadael iddynt siarad drostynt eu hunain. Mae ffeithiau’n galetach ac yn llai maddeugar na gwleidyddion.
In 2000, the Assembly reached an agreement with the European Union on the allocation of structural funds. Although it is Objective 1 that receives most money, we must not forget about Objectives 2 and 3 and the community initiatives. A total of £1.5 billion was allocated, which was to be matched by an UK contribution.
Yn 2000, daeth y Cynulliad i gytundeb â’r Undeb Ewropeaidd ar ddyrannu cyllid strwythurol. Er mai Amcan 1 a gaiff y mwyaf o arian, rhaid inni beidio ag anghofio Amcanion 2 a 3 a’r mentrau cymunedol. Dyrannwyd cyfanswm o £1.5 biliwn, ac yr oedd cyfraniad i’w roi gan y DU i gyfateb i hynny.
Each programme is described in a legal document called a single programming document. You can find these documents on the internet but, without broadband, it takes a long time to download them. That is a pity, as I want you to look at the financial tables. These give budgets for each year to indicate the amount of grant that should be allocated in that year. The timetable is not rigid: we can allocate money in advance, which is the prudent course, or we can delay allocating money until the last minute, as happened in 1999. However, that is foolish, as it is a rigid rule that all the money that is not spent within two years of the year indicated in the single programming document is lost or decommitted.
Disgrifir pob rhaglen mewn dogfen gyfreithiol a elwir yn ddogfen raglennu sengl. Gallwch ddod o hyd i’r dogfennau hyn ar y rhyngrwyd ond, heb fand eang, mae’n cymryd amser hir i’w llwytho. Mae hynny’n drueni, gan fy mod am ichi edrych ar y tablau ariannol. Mae’r rhain yn rhoi cyllidebau ar gyfer pob blwyddyn i ddangos maint y grant a ddylai gael ei ddyrannu yn y flwyddyn honno. Nid yw’r amserlen yn anhyblyg: gallwn ddyrannu arian ymlaen llaw, sef y dull gweithredu doeth, neu gallwn ohirio dyrannu arian tan y funud olaf, fel y digwyddodd yn 1999. Fodd bynnag, peth ffôl yw hynny, gan ei bod yn rheol gaeth y bydd yr holl arian nas gwerir o fewn dwy flynedd i’r flwyddyn a nodwyd yn y ddogfen raglennu sengl yn cael ei golli neu’i ddadrwymo.
So what is our position on 22 October 2002? If all the European programmes are combined and we use today’s rate of exchange, we should have allocated European Union grants worth £600 million, which is a nice round number to remember. You can find out how much money has been allocated on the internet. According to the Welsh European Funding Office’s website, £428 million has been allocated. There is, therefore, a shortfall of £172 million.
Felly beth yw ein sefyllfa ar 22 Hydref 2002? Os cyfunir yr holl raglenni Ewropeaidd ac os defnyddiwn cyfradd gyfnewid heddiw, dylem fod wedi dyrannu grantiau Undeb Ewropeaidd gwerth £600 miliwn, sy’n rhif hawdd ei gofio. Gallwch ddarganfod faint o arian a ddyrannwyd ar y rhyngrwyd. Yn ôl gwefan Swyddfa Cyllid Ewropeaidd Cymru, dyrannwyd £428 miliwn. Felly mae diffyg o £172 miliwn.
However, the situation is much worse in reality. Analysis of previous programmes shows that the spending of European grants is always slower than anticipated and, in the end, there is an average underspend of about 10 per cent. This year, the Assembly Government will decommit about £40 million or £50 million of European money that was allocated in 1999 because of late spending and underspend. I assume that it will make a statement on this when the exact figure is known. To avoid decommitment of money in Objective 1 and the other programmes, it would have been prudent to have allocated £660 million by today. Therefore, the actual shortfall is about £230 million.
Fodd bynnag, mae’r sefyllfa’n waeth o lawer mewn gwirionedd. Drwy ddadansoddi’r rhaglenni blaenorol gwelir bod y gwaith o wario grantiau Ewropeaidd bob amser yn arafach na’r disgwyl ac, ar y diwedd, fod tanwariant ar gyfartaledd tua 10 y cant. Eleni, bydd Llywodraeth y Cynulliad yn dadrwymo tua £40 miliwn neu £50 miliwn o arian Ewropeaidd a ddyrannwyd yn 1999 oherwydd gwario hwyr a thanwario. Cymeraf y gwnaiff ddatganiad ar hyn pan yw’r union ffigur yn hysbys. Er mwyn osgoi dadrwymo arian yn Amcan 1 ac yn y rhaglenni eraill, buasai’n ddoeth dyrannu £660 miliwn erbyn heddiw. Felly, y gwir ddiffyg yw tua £230 miliwn.
The most amazing shortfall is in the grant allocation for infrastructure. Of the £80 million that we should have allocated to date, only £8 million has been allocated. That includes another figure that is easy to remember: the total amount allocated so far for information and communication technology infrastructure, which is zero. By failing to set up an infrastructure partnership when urged by Plaid Cymru to do so in 2000, the Minister responsible for economic development at the time has, at best, seriously delayed economic recovery and, at worst, risked forfeiting money. These are the facts. I will not guess whether the failure is a deliberate one to save Labour’s embarrassment over the lack of any match funding, or simple incompetence. I will let the facts speak for themselves.
Y diffyg mwyaf syfrdanol yw yn y grant a ddyrannwyd ar gyfer seilwaith. O’r £80 miliwn y dylem fod wedi’i ddyrannu hyd yn hyn, dim ond £8 miliwn a ddyrannwyd. Mae hynny’n cynnwys ffigur arall sy’n hawdd ei gofio: y cyfanswm a ddyrannwyd hyd yn hyn ar gyfer seilwaith technoleg gwybodaeth a chyfathrebu, sef sero. Drwy fethu â sefydlu partneriaeth seilwaith pan bwyswyd arno i wneud hynny gan Blaid Cymru yn 2000, mae’r Gweinidog a oedd yn gyfrifol am ddatblygu economaidd ar y pryd wedi arafu adferiad economaidd yn ddirfawr, ar y gorau, ac, ar y gwaethaf, wedi mentro fforffedu arian. Dyma’r ffeithiau. Ni ddyfalaf a yw’r methiant yn un bwriadol i beidio â chodi cywilydd ar Lafur ynghylch diffyg cyllid cyfatebol, neu aflerwch a dim byd arall. Gadawaf i’r ffeithiau siarad drostynt eu hunain.
I also deplore the fact that we have had to drag the Minister kicking and screaming to this debate. It is high time that the Government realised that it has a duty to discuss these important issues in its own time. The Minister sits in the front row when all but he has fled, and who can blame other Ministers for fleeing from this debate. [ASSEMBLY MEMBERS: ‘Jenny Randerson is here.’] She does not sit in the front row; she sits in the second row. I would be happy if she sat in the front row, but she does not.
Yr wyf finnau’n gresynu at y ffaith ein bod yn gorfod llusgo’r Gweindog dan strancio i’r ddadl hon. Mae’n hen bryd i’r Llywodraeth sylweddoli ei bod dan ddyletswydd i drafod y materion pwysig hyn yn ei hamser ei hun. Mae’r Gweinidog yn eistedd yn y rhes flaen a phawb ond efe wedi ffoi, a phwy a all weld bai ar y Gweinidogion eraill am ffoi rhag y ddadl hon. [AELODAU CYNULLIAD: ‘Mae Jenny Randerson yma.’] Nid yw’n eistedd yn y rhes flaen; mae’n eistedd yn yr ail res. Byddwn yn falch pe eisteddai yn y rhes flaen, ond nid yw’n gwneud hynny.
The job losses over the summer should have been the subject of a serious Assembly debate. Three hundred and twenty five jobs were lost at Dewhirst. Elin Jones talked about the job losses in Cardigan and Aberystwyth. There were serious job losses in Allied Steel and Wire in Cardiff that have not been the subject of any comment from the Assembly Government, and 200 jobs were lost at Pirelli Cables in Newport. Underlying all of this is a wholly unrealistic document, ‘A Winning Wales’. It sets unrealistic targets, as objective commentators, including Harvard Business School, have said. The First Minister has said that people should be ambitious for Wales. However, if it is simply a matter of plucking a growth rate from the air, why do we not double it? Until we realise and admit where we are, we do not have any hope of making up the existing gap.
Dylasai’r colledion swyddi dros yr haf fod yn destun dadl ddifrifol yn y Cynulliad. Collwyd 325 o swyddi yn Dewhirst. Soniodd Elin Jones am y colledion swyddi yn Aberteifi ac Aberystwyth. Bu colledion swyddi enbyd yn Allied Steel and Wire yng Nghaerdydd na chafwyd unrhyw sylw arnynt gan Lywodraeth y Cynulliad, a chollwyd 200 o swyddi yn Pirelli Cables yng Nghasnewydd. Yn sail i hyn oll y mae’r ddogfen gwbl afrealistig, ‘Cymru’n Ennill’. Mae’n gosod targedau afrealistig, fel y mae sylwebyddion gwrthrychol, gan gynnwys Ysgol Fusnes Harvard, wedi dweud. Mae Prif Weinidog Cymru wedi dweud y dylai pobl fod yn uchelgeisiol dros Gymru. Fodd bynnag, ond nad yw ond yn fater o dynnu cyfradd dwf o’r awyr, pam na wnawn ei ddyblu? Hyd nes y byddwn yn cydnabod ac yn cyfaddef ymhle’r ydym, nid oes unrhyw obaith inni gau’r bwlch presennol.
I will also pay attention to some aspects that discourage companies and businesses from setting up in Wales. A comment on regulation was made to the Business Minister when he was answering questions on behalf of the First Minister. He seems to think that regulation necessarily means high wages; that is not true. If you compare Wales with Canada, the US, Australia or New Zealand, those countries have significantly less regulation, with higher wages. There is no correlation between the two. The Government of Wales should consider that fact to give Wales a competitive advantage, not only in Europe, but also within the United Kingdom. England’s growth rates greatly exceed those of Wales, even given the unrealistic targets that have been set by the Government of Wales. Those two issues are important—with the most important being the underlying reality. Alun Cairns said that a Committee, on which the Government had an inbuilt majority, effectively rubbished ‘A Winning Wales’. Until we get to the starting blocks and are realistic about our position, we cannot hope to improve. That is what the Minister must set his sights on today.
Rhoddaf sylw hefyd i rai agweddau sy’n cymell cwmnïau a busnesau i beidio ag ymsefydlu yng Nghymru. Soniwyd am reoleiddio wrth y Trefnydd pan oedd yn ateb cwestiynau ar ran Prif Weinidog Cymru. Mae’n ymddangos ei fod yn credu bod rheoleiddio’n sicr o olygu cyflogau uchel; nid yw hynny’n wir. Os cymharwch Gymru â Chanada, yr Unol Daleithiau, Awstralia neu Seland Newydd, mae gan y gwledydd hynny lai o reoleiddio o lawer, gyda chyflogau uwch. Nid oes cydberthynas rhwng y ddau. Dylai Llywodraeth Cymru ystyried y ffaith honno er mwyn rhoi mantais gystadleuol i Gymru, nid yn unig yn Ewrop, ond hefyd yn y Deyrnas Unedig. Mae cyfraddau twf Lloegr yn fwy o lawer na rhai Cymru, hyd yn oed o ystyried y targedau afrealistig a osodwyd gan Lywodraeth Cymru. Mae’r ddau fater hynny’n bwysig—a’r pwysicaf yw’r realiti sylfaenol. Dywedodd Alun Cairns fod Pwyllgor y mae gan y Llywodraeth fwyafrif annatod arno wedi wfftio ‘Cymru’n Ennill’ i bob pwrpas. Hyd nes y deuwn at y man cychwyn a sylweddoli beth yw ein sefyllfa, nid oes gobaith inni wella. At hynny y mae’n rhaid i’r Gweinidog anelu heddiw.
I will speak in favour of the motion and against the appallingly smug and self-congratulatory amendment tabled by the Government. I will focus on the way in which the education and training system in Wales is comprehensively failing to provide young people and others with the skills that they need to participate in the economy, or to develop the overall skill base that the economy has a whole so desperately needs. I will focus particularly on those of the potential workforce of Wales registered not as unemployed, but as economically inactive—a group ignored in Labour contributions to this debate so far. The Future Skills Wales surveys make interesting reading. Time after time, the same skill gaps are identified, with basic skills and communication skills prominent among them. The same problems are identified, but no change is brought about to address them. We welcomed the Government’s Skills and Employment Action Plan. However, like so many of this Government’s plethora of action plans, it looks good on paper, but nine months later, little has changed on the ground, and there is no sign that it will.
Siaradaf o blaid y cynnig ac yn erbyn y gwelliant ofnadwy o hunanfodlon a hunanglodforus a gyflwynwyd gan y Llywodraeth. Canolbwyntiaf ar y modd y mae’r system addysg a hyfforddiant yng Nghymru’n methu’n gyffredinol â darparu ar gyfer pobl ifanc ac eraill y sgiliau y mae arnynt eu hangen i gymryd rhan yn yr economi, neu i ddatblygu’r sylfaen sgiliau gyffredinol y mae ar yr economi gyfan ei thaer angen. Canolbwyntiaf yn benodol ar y rhai o blith gweithlu dichonol Cymru nas cofrestrwyd yn ddi-waith, ond yn economaidd anweithgar—grŵp a anwybyddwyd yn y cyfraniadau gan Lafur i’r ddadl hon hyd yn hyn. Mae arolygon Sgiliau Dyfodol Cymru’n ddeunydd darllen diddorol. Dro ar ôl tro, canfyddir yr un bylchau mewn sgiliau, ac mae sgiliau sylfaenol a sgiliau cyfathrebu’n amlwg yn eu mysg. Canfyddir yr un problemau, ond ni pherir unrhyw newid i ymdrin â hwy. Gwnaethom groesawu Cynllun Gweithredu Sgiliau a Chyflogaeth y Llywodraeth. Fodd bynnag, fel cynifer o’r llu o gynlluniau gweithredu sydd gan y Llywodraeth hon, mae’n ymddangos yn dda ar bapur, ond naw mis yn ddiweddarach, ychydig sydd wedi newid yn y maes, ac nid oes arwydd y gwnaiff yn y dyfodol.
In terms of people of a working age who are economically inactive, Wales ranked eleventh of the UK’s 12 regions. This presents a huge challenge to the economic development agenda. The percentage of economically inactive 18 to 24-year-olds has increased in Wales by 31 per cent since 1999. There are various reasons for inactivity, such as health, disability, family responsibilities, but the majority of those who are economically inactive, particularly younger inactive people, face major barriers to re-entering the workforce. Barriers include skill gaps as well as practical ones such as access to childcare and transport and those relating to self-confidence and social problems like drug and alcohol abuse. The many excellent schemes across Wales aiming to help overcome these barriers face problems because of how funding from Education and Learning Wales continues to be outcome-dominated, focusing on qualifications, effectively giving training providers little incentive to work with these harder-to-reach groups. If we cannot engage economically inactive people in the labour market, we condemn them as individuals to poverty and many of their communities to staying poor. We can find imaginative ways to enable skills to be acquired and barriers overcome, but we must have the will and the funding mechanisms to do so. This Government seems to lack the will, and it certainly has not delivered the funding mechanisms.
O ran y rhai o oedran gweithio sy’n economaidd anweithgar, yr oedd Cymru’n unfed ar ddeg o blith 12 rhanbarth y DU. Mae hynny’n her aruthrol i’r agenda datblygu economaidd. Mae canran y rhai 18 i 24 mlwydd oed sy’n economaidd anweithgar wedi cynyddu o 31 y cant yng Nghymru ers 1999. Mae amryw o resymau dros anweithgarwch, fel iechyd, anabledd, cyfrifoldebau teuluol, ond mae’r rhan fwyaf o’r rhai economaidd anweithgar, yn enwedig pobl anweithgar iau, yn wynebu rhwystrau mawr rhag dychwelyd i’r gweithlu. Mae’r rhwystrau’n cynnwys bylchau sgiliau yn ogystal â rhai ymarferol megis y gallu i gael gofal plant a thrafnidiaeth a rhai sy’n ymwneud â hunanhyder a phroblemau cymdeithasol fel camddefnyddio alcohol a chyffuriau. Mae’r nifer fawr o gynlluniau rhagorol ledled Cymru sy’n ceisio helpu i oresgyn y rhwystrau hynny’n wynebu problemau oherwydd y modd y mae’r cyllid oddi wrth Dysgu ac Addysgu Cymru’n dal i gael ei dra-arglwyddiaethu gan ganlyniadau, gan ganolbwyntio ar gymwysterau, a thrwy hynny’n rhoi fawr o anogaeth mewn gwirionedd i’r darparwyr hyfforddiant weithio gyda grwpiau anos eu cyrraedd o’r fath. Os na allwn gynnwys pobl economaidd anweithgar yn y farchnad lafur, yr ydym yn eu defrydu fel unigolion i dlodi a llawer o’u cymunedau i dlodi parhaol. Gallwn ddod o hyd i ddulliau llawn dychymyg i’w galluogi i ddysgu sgiliau ac i oresgyn rhwystrau, ond rhaid wrth yr ewyllys a’r dulliau ariannu angenrheidiol i wneud hynny. Mae’n ymddangos nad yw’r Llywodraeth yn meddu ar yr ewyllys honno, ac yn sicr nid yw wedi darparu’r dulliau ariannu hynny.
We must go back to basics on skills. We must consider the curriculum of our schools, which stuffs our children’s heads with facts and allows little space for developing skills like team-working and communication—the skills that employers tell us that they need. The Government shows no willingness to undertake such a radical curriculum review; it will be left to a Plaid Cymru government in 2003 to do so.
Rhaid inni fynd yn ôl at y pethau elfennol o ran sgiliau. Rhaid inni ystyried cwricwlwm ein hysgolion, sy’n llenwi pennau ein plant â ffeithiau ac yn rhoi fawr o le iddynt ddatblygu sgiliau fel gweithio mewn tîm a chyfathrebu—y sgiliau y dywed y cyflogwyr fod arnynt eu hangen. Nid oes golwg bod y Llywodraeth yn barod i gynnal adolygiad mor sylfaenol o’r cwricwlwm; gadewir y gwaith hwnnw i lywodraeth Plaid Cymru yn 2003.
No-one believes that addressing the challenges of inactivity and skills poverty will be easy. We will need radical thinking and a willingness to challenge vested interests; we will need to dismantle the competitive market in training and education. We need to achieve a great deal. However, we do not need a smug, self-satisfied Government that responds to a serious motion like this one with an amendment suggesting that everything in the garden is rosy. Communities out there know that this economic development policy—or rather the lack of one—is letting them down. Both halves of this unengaging/disengaging coalition will pay the price at the ballot box.
Nid oes neb yn credu mai gwaith hawdd fydd ateb her anweithgarwch a phrinder sgiliau. Bydd arnom angen meddwl radicalaidd a pharodrwydd i herio buddiannau breintiedig; bydd yn rhaid inni ddatgymalu marchnad gystadleuol hyfforddiant ac addysg. Mae angen inni gyflawni llawer. Fodd bynnag, nid oes arnom angen Llywodraeth hunanfodlon, gysetlyd sy’n ymateb i gynnig difrif fel hwn â gwelliant sy’n awgrymu bod popeth yn berffaith. Mae cymunedau y tu allan yn gwybod bod y polisi datblygu economaidd hwn—neu’n hytrach diffyg polisi o’r fath—yn eu siomi. Bydd dau hanner y glymblaid anneniadol a datgysylltiol hon yn talu’r pris yn y blwch pleidleisiau.
Had I been called first, Helen Mary would have known that I was going to talk about the economically inactive, therefore it is wrong to say that we do not care about them.
Pe byddwn wedi fy ngalw’n gyntaf, byddai Helen Mary wedi gwybod fy mod am siarad am y rhai economaidd anweithgar, felly nid yw’n iawn dweud nad ydym yn poeni amdanynt.
Since 1997, unemployment in my constituency has halved, and youth unemployment has fallen to an all time low of 47 young people. The Vale of Clwyd is made up of 20 local government wards, only two of which account for over 40 per cent of the constituency’s unemployment figure. We have come a long way, but there is still a great deal to do before we eradicate unemployment blackspots. That is why Chris Ruane, the local Member of Parliament, and myself have set up a taskforce to consider how we can tear down the barriers to work that face many people in the west end of Rhyl—people who have been put on the economically inactive register by previous administrations.
Ers 1997, mae’r diweithdra yn fy etholaeth i wedi’i haneru, ac mae diwithdra ymysg pobl ifanc ar ei isaf erioed, sef 47 o bobl ifanc. Mae Dyffryn Clwyd yn cynnwys 20 o wardiau llywodraeth leol, a dim ond dwy ohonynt sy’n gyfrifol am 40 y cant o ffigur diweithdra’r etholaeth. Daethom yn bell iawn, ond mae llawer i’w wneud o hyd cyn inni ddileu diweithdra yn y mannau gwaethaf. Dyna pam y mae Chris Ruane, yr Aelod Seneddol lleol, a minnau wedi sefydlu tasglu i ystyried sut y gallwn ddymchwel y rhwystrau rhag gweithio sy’n wynebu llawer ym mhen gorllewinol y Rhyl—pobl a roddwyd ar y gofrestr o rai economaidd anweithgar gan weinyddiaethau blaenorol.
This task group includes representatives from Denbighshire County Council, the local further education college, ELWa, the Prince’s Trust and the Welsh Development Agency, and, more importantly, some from the community. That is why I was pleased that the First Minister accepted my invitation to address the taskforce’s first meeting, showing how seriously we take this situation. However, we will not deliver for those people on the ground by whining about Westminster or by looking to go it alone on policies. We can only achieve this by working together, blending our basic skills strategy, our Objective 1 status, our childcare, housing, transport and social inclusion policies with a UK-wide benefits system aimed at making work pay with employment service initiatives like Jobcentre Plus, the New Deal and the working families tax credit.
Mae’r tasglu hwn yn cynnwys cynrychiolwyr o Gyngor Sir Ddinbych, y coleg addysg bellach lleol, ELWa, Ymddiriedolaeth y Tywysog ac Awdurdod Datblygu Cymru ac, yn bwysicach na hynny, rhai o’r gymuned. Dyna pam yr oeddwn yn falch bod Prif Weinidog Cymru wedi derbyn fy ngwahoddiad i annerch cyfarfod cyntaf y tasglu, gan ddangos ein bod o ddifrif calon ynghylch y sefyllfa hon. Fodd bynnag, ni chyflawnwn ddim dros y bobl hynny ar lawr gwlad drwy gwyno am San Steffan neu ystyried mynd i’n ffordd ein hunain ar bolisïau. Yr unig fodd inni gyflawni hyn yw drwy gydweithio, gan gyfuno ein strategaeth sgiliau sylfaenol, ein statws Amcan 1, ein polisïau ar ofal plant, tai, trafnidiaeth a chynhwysiant cymdeithasol gyda system budd-daliadau i’r DU gyfan sydd â’r nod o beri i waith dalu gyda mentrau gan y gwasanaeth cyflogi fel Canolfan Byd Gwaith, y Fargen Newydd a’r credyd treth i deuluoedd sy’n gweithio.
Our vision for addressing the scourge of joblessness in Wales has to be an all-encompassing one—in which we work in partnership with the British Government to produce joined-up policies across devolved and non-devolved responsibilities. We can achieve more together than alone. The Assembly has come a long way in the past three years. We have linked education skills to our labour market policies and we have broadened horizons and made clear our determination to tackle inequality. I do not claim for a moment that we have got everything right, but we have got many things right. The fact that we are eradicating long-term youth unemployment in my constituency is a major achievement. Our task now is to reset our sights so that we eliminate long-term unemployment and tackle economic inactivity across Wales.
Rhaid inni gael gweledigaeth hollgynhwysol ar gyfer delio â melltith diweithdra yng Nghymru—lle yr ydym yn gweithio mewn partneriaeth â Llywodraeth Prydain i lunio polisïau cydgysylltiedig yn y cyfrifoldebau a ddatganolwyd a’r rhai sydd heb eu datganoli. Gallwn gyflawni mwy gyda’n gilydd nag y gallem ar wahân. Mae’r Cynulliad wedi dod yn bell yn y tair blynedd diwethaf. Yr ydym wedi cysylltu sgiliau addysg â’n polisïau ar y farchnad lafur ac yr ydym wedi ehangu ein gorwelion a datgan ein penderfyniad i fynd i’r afael ag anghydraddoldeb. Nid wyf yn honni am eiliad ein bod wedi cael popeth yn iawn, ond yr ydym wedi cael llawer o bethau’n iawn. Mae’r ffaith ein bod yn dileu diweithdra tymor hir ymysg pobl ifanc yn fy etholaeth i’n gamp fawr. Ein gwaith yn awr yw anelu’n uwch fel ein bod yn dileu diweithdra tymor hir ac yn mynd i’r afael ag anweithgarwch economaidd ledled Cymru.
We now need to address the poverty of aspiration, the skills gap, discrimination and the inequality of opportunity that hinder our drive to build fairer and wealthier communities. The key challenge for our second term must be to help people overcome the barriers to work. We must do this not just because it is right, but because we cannot afford to continue wasting the talents of so many of our people.
Rhaid inni ymdrin yn awr â’r diffyg uchelgais, y bwlch sgiliau, gwahaniaethu a’r anghydraddoldeb o ran cyfleoedd sy’n llesteirio ein hymdrech i greu cymunedau tecach a mwy cyfoethog. Yr her allweddol ar gyfer ein hail dymor fydd helpu pobl i oresgyn yr hyn sy’n eu rhwystro rhag gweithio. Rhaid inni wneud hyn nid yn unig am ei fod yn iawn, ond am na allwn fforddio parhau i wastraffu doniau cynifer o’n pobl.
No-one would deny that Wales has economic problems. Compared with other parts of the UK, we have lower average productivity, a higher than average inactivity rate, one of the highest proportions of the population with no qualifications and one of the lowest levels of research and development expenditure as expressed as a proportion of gross domestic product. GDP per head in Wales is only 80.5 per cent of the UK average—a deterioration from the 1989 figure of 84 per cent. Wales has failed to match the growth in other parts of the UK and forms a poor club of three with the north-east of England and Northern Ireland, whose GDP per capita is also significantly lower than the UK average. This social decay and massive inequality did not happen overnight. Parts of Wales have been subjected to the decline of massive manufacturing industries such as coal and steel. I will ask one or two simple questions of the participants in this debate.
Ni fyddai neb yn gwadu nad oes gan Gymru broblemau economaidd. O’n cymharu â rhannau eraill o’r DU, mae gennym gynhyrchiant cyfartalog is, cyfradd anweithgarwch uwch na’r cyfartaledd, un o’r cyfrannau mwyaf o boblogaeth heb gymwysterau ac un o’r lefelau isaf o wariant ar ymchwil a datblygu o’i fynegi fel cyfran o’n cynnyrch mewnwladol crynswth. Nid yw cynnyrch mewnwladol crynswth y pen yng Nghymru ond yn 80.5 y cant o gyfartaledd y DU—dirywiad o’i gymharu â’r ffigur o 84 y cant yn 1989. Mae Cymru wedi methu â chystadlu â’r twf mewn rhannau eraill o’r DU ac mae’n un o garfan dlawd o dri, gyda gogledd-ddwyrain Lloegr a Gogledd Iwerddon, y mae eu CMC y pen hefyd yn is o lawer na chyfartaledd y DU. Ni ddigwyddodd y dadfeiliad cymdeithasol a’r anghydraddoldeb aruthrol hwn dros nos. Mae rhai mannau yng Nghymru wedi profi dirywiad diwydiannau gweithgynhyrchu anferth fel glo a dur. Gofynnaf un neu ddau o gwestiynau syml i’r rhai sy’n cymryd rhan yn y ddadl hon.
We have heard the prophets of doom talking about our situation and the partnership Government’s attempts to correct it. How would a party that believes in independence fund all this work?
Clywsom y proffwydi gwae yn sôn am ein sefyllfa ac ymdrechion y Llywodraeth bartneriaeth i’w chywiro. Sut y byddai plaid sy’n credu mewn annibyniaeth yn ariannu’r holl waith hwn?
Your contribution makes interesting listening. You state that no-one could question the fact that Wales faces severe economic and employment problems. We just heard Lynne and Ann tell us that there are no problems. What is this coalition? You tell us that there are severe problems; the Labour Party tells us that there are no problems. Who are we to believe? I am surprised that Mike German has not sorted this out as we are constantly told that he will sort out every problem and that he drives the agenda. Who are we to believe in this coalition? Are there severe problems or not?
Mae’ch cyfraniad yn ddiddorol. Dywedwch na allai neb amau’r ffaith nad yw Cymru’n wynebu problemau difrifol o ran yr economi a chyflogaeth. Yr ydym newydd glywed Lynne ac Ann yn dweud wrthym nad oes problemau. Beth yw’r glymblaid hon? Yr ydych chi’n dweud wrthym fod problemau difrifol; mae’r Blaid Lafur yn dweud wrthym nad oes problemau. Pwy yr ydym i fod i’w goelio? Yr wyf yn synnu nad yw Mike German wedi datrys hyn gan y dywedir wrthym yn barhaus mai ef fydd yn datrys pob problem ac mai ef sy’n gyrru’r agenda. Pwy yr ydym i fod i’w goelio yn y glymblaid hon? A oes problemau difrifol ai peidio?
Thank you for that little rant. I expected an answer to my question of how Plaid would fund its magnificent programmes following independence. Since you do not care to give your answer, I will give you a brief answer. I do not know anybody in Wales who denies the existence of the challenges we face. However, the economic situation is not uniform throughout Wales. Plaid Cymru has on many occasions extolled the virtues of regional targets. I refer its members to the answer given by the WDA last week to the Economic Development Committee, when the concept of regional targets was rebuffed because adhering to rigid targets would reduce the flexibility to invest in other areas of Wales. The partnership Government, despite the plethora of strategies and great statements, has set off in the right direction and is tackling the problems. For example, the Assembly investment grant is the first ever pan-Wales investment grant for small and medum-sized businesses. Take our investment in young people through Farming Connect. This is an innovative scheme—the first of its kind—to offer extra money to young people to help them to develop their businesses.
Diolch i chi am y truth hwnnw. Yr oeddwn wedi disgwyl cael ateb i’m cwestiwn ynghylch y modd y byddai Plaid Cymru’n ariannu ei rhaglenni gwych ar ôl annibyniaeth. Gan nad ydych yn dymuno rhoi’ch ateb chi, rhoddaf fi ateb byr i chi. Nid wyf yn adnabod neb yng Nghymru sy’n gwadu bodolaeth yr heriau a wynebwn. Fodd bynnag, nid yw’r sefyllfa economaidd yn unffurf ledled Cymru. Mae Plaid Cymru wedi canmol rhinweddau targedau rhanbarthol lawer gwaith. Cyfeiriaf ei haelodau at yr ateb a roddwyd gan y WDA yr wythnos diwethaf i’r Pwyllgor Datblygu Economaidd, pan wrthodwyd y cysyniad o dargedau rhanbarthol gan y byddai glynu wrth dargedau caeth yn lleihau’r hyblygrwydd i fuddsoddi mewn rhannau eraill o Gymru. Mae’r Llywodraeth bartneriaeth, er gwaethaf y llu o strategaethau a datganiadau mawr, wedi cychwyn i’r cyfeiriad iawn ac yn ymdrin â’r problemau. Er enghraifft, grant buddsoddi’r Cynulliad yw’r grant buddsoddi cyntaf erioed i Gymru gyfan ar gyfer busnesau bach a chanolig eu maint. Cymerwch ein buddsoddi mewn pobl ifanc drwy Cyswllt Ffermio. Cynllun arloesol yw hwn—y cyntaf o’i fath—i gynnig arian ychwanegol i bobl ifanc i’w helpu i ddatblygu eu busnesau.
If the Assembly investment grant is such a roaring success, why does it only have a budget line of £1 million?
Os yw grant buddsoddi’r Cynulliad yn llwyddiant mor aruthrol, pam y mae ganddo linell gyllideb o ddim ond £1 filiwn?
Since it is demand led, that also is a fair question—
Gan ei fod yn cael ei arwain gan y galw, mae hynny hefyd yn gwestiwn teg—
There is no demand.
Nid oes galw.
It has only just been introduced. It will be demand-led, and structural issues will be addressed. How long do I have left, Deputy Presiding Officer?
Nid yw ond newydd ei gyflwyno. Caiff ei arwain gan y galw, ac ymdrinnir â’r materion strwythurol. Faint sydd gennyf ar ôl, Ddirprwy Lywydd?
John Marek The Deputy Presiding Officer spoken in English p. 94
John Marek Y Dirprwy Lywydd siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 94
You have five seconds.
Mae gennych bum eiliad.
Five seconds? Are there any more interventions? The influence and the—[Interruption.]
Pum eiliad? A oes rhagor o ymyriadau? Mae’r dylanwad a—[Torri ar draws.]
John Marek The Deputy Presiding Officer spoken in English p. 94
John Marek Y Dirprwy Lywydd siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 94
Order.
Trefn.
As part of the strategy, we must remember the investment in education and training. This is best illustrated by the partnership Government’s desire to create excellence in Wales unsurpassed in the United Kingdom. In supporting information and communications technology, we will create a structure for the new Wales whereby we can truly say that we have hot jobs and cool communities.
Fel rhan o’r strategaeth, rhaid inni gofio’r buddsoddiad mewn addysg a hyfforddiant. Dangosir hynny orau gan awydd y Llywodraeth bartneriaeth i greu rhagoriaeth yng Nghymru a fyddai heb ei hail yn y Deyrnas Unedig. Wrth gefnogi technoleg gwybodaeth a chyfathrebu, byddwn yn creu strwythur ar gyfer Cymru newydd fel y gallwn ddweud yn gywir fod gennym swyddi a chymunedau gwych.
Un peth a’m denodd i yn laslanc i wleidyddiaeth y mudiad cenedlaethol oedd gweld cenhedlaeth o’m cyfoedion a rhai hŷn yn ymadael â Chymru i greu galwedigaeth i’w hunain. Yn gyntaf, gwelais fy nghyfoedion yn yr ysgol yng Ngheredigion a chwm Nedd yn ymadael ac yna fy nghyfoedion yn y coleg. Dyma a fu hanes Cymru yn ystod ail hanner yr ugeinfed ganrif, ac mae’r gwaedlif yn parhau. Mae lefel yr anweithgarwch economaidd ymysg y rhai rhwng 18 a 23 oed wedi codi 31 y cant ers 1999, Mick Bates, ac nid yw hynny’n cyfrif y rhai sydd wedi ymadael, a’r rhai sydd yn bwriadu ymadael, â Chymru.
One reason why I was attracted to the politics of the nationalist movement as a young man was seeing a generation of my contemporaries, and some older than me, leaving Wales to build a career for themselves. First, I saw my schoolmates in Ceredigion and the vale of Neath leave, and then my fellow students at college. That has been the history of Wales in the second half of the twentieth century, and the haemorrhaging continues. The level of economic inactivity among those aged between 18 and 23 has increased by 31 per cent since 1999, Mick Bates, and that does not include those who have left or those who are intent on leaving.
Un o amcanion pennaf llywodraeth Plaid Cymru fyddai newid y sefyllfa honno. Byddai’r graddau y llwyddem i ddenu pobl ifanc i greu dyfodol i’w hunain yng Nghymru yn un o brif ddangosyddion llwyddiant ein polisi. Byddai hefyd yn greiddiol i’r strategaeth marchnad lafur y byddem am ei sefydlu. Mae’n debyg y byddai Plaid Lafur Cymru yn gwrthwynebu hynny.
One of the main objectives of a Plaid Cymru government would be to reverse that situation. The extent to which we would succeed in attracting young people to build a future for themselves in Wales would be one of the main indicators of the success of our policy. It would also be central to the labour market strategy that we would seek to establish. It seems that Welsh Labour would oppose that.
I will be brief, since you are being generous with the short time that you have. Is it not true that Plaid Cymru’s economic policy is predicated upon economic hypocrisy? Why should the Government take anything you say seriously when the massive economic consequences of the independence that you propose for Wales are left completely unanswered in your policy statements and documents? How would you pay for an independent inland revenue system, an independent national insurance system, or the welfare state itself?
Byddaf yn gryno, gan eich bod yn rhoi’n hael o’r amser prin sydd gennych. Onid yw’n wir bod polisi economaidd Plaid Cymru’n seiliedig ar ragrith economaidd? Pam y dylai’r Llywodraeth gymryd dim a ddywedwch o ddifrif pan nad ymdrinnir o gwbl yn eich datganiadau a’ch dogfennau polisi â chanlyniadau economaidd aruthrol yr annibyniaeth a gynigiwch ar gyfer Cymru? Sut y byddech yn talu am system cyllid gwladol annibynnol, system yswiriant gwladol annibynnol, neu’r wladwriaeth les ei hun?
Yr oeddwn wedi rhagweld y byddai cwestiwn o’r fath yn codi, a byddaf yn ymdrin ag ef yn nes ymlaen.
I had foreseen that such a question would be asked, and I will address it later.
Byddai Plaid Lafur Cymru, mae’n debyg, yn gwrthwynebu’r nod o gadw pobl ifanc yng Nghymru. Wedi’r cyfan, pan geisiodd grŵp Plaid Cymru gynnwys yn adroddiad y Pwyllgor Addysg a Dysgu Gydol Oes argymhelliad y dylid denu cyfran uwch o’n hieuenctid i dderbyn eu haddysg uwch yng Nghymru, gwrthwynebwyd yr awgrym yn ffyrnig gan y Blaid Lafur. Bu iddi ddefnyddio’r ystrydebau cyfarwydd a’i alw’n gul, cyfyng, mewnblyg a phlwyfol, a chredaf imi glywed y gair ‘hiliol’ hyd yn oed. Yn Iwerddon, mae 95 y cant o bobl ifanc yn aros yno, ac yn yr Alban y mae’r ffigur yn 75 y cant. Serch hynny, mae’n debyg y byddai’r Blaid Lafur yn cefnogi amcan Awdurdod Datblygu Cymru i ddenu cynifer o raddedigion â phosibl i aros yng Nghymru er mwyn cryfhau’r economi. Os gall unrhyw un esbonio’r gwahaniaeth rhwng y ddau beth hynny, byddai’n dod yn agos efallai at esbonio cymhlethdodau a hang-ups rhyfedd y Blaid Lafur ynghylch y cwestiwn cenedlaethol.
It seems that Welsh Labour would oppose the aim of retaining young people in Wales. After all, when the Plaid Cymru group tried to include in the report of the Education and Lifelong Learning Committee the recommendation that we should attract a greater proportion of our young people to receive their higher education in Wales, it was fiercely opposed by the Labour Party. It used the same old clichés, calling the suggestion narrow, restrictive, introspective and parochial. I believe that I even heard the word ‘racist’. In Ireland, 95 per cent of young people stay in the country, and in Scotland the figure stands at 75 per cent. However, it seems that the Labour Party would support the Welsh Development Agency in its aim of attracting as many graduates as possible to stay in Wales in order to strengthen the economy. If anyone can explain the difference between our recommendation and the WDA’s aim, they would probably come close to explaining the strange complexities and hang-ups of the Labour Party when it comes to the national question.
Nid ydym o’r farn bod modd cyflawni gwyrthiau dros nos. Ond credwn yn angerddol fod modd i Gymru fod yn un o genedl-ranbarthau mwyaf ffyniannus Ewrop. A yw Llafur yn credu hynny? Yn y bôn, nac ydyw. Cadarnhawyd mai’r hyn y bydd y Blaid Lafur yn ei ddefnyddio’n bennaf i ymosod ar Blaid Cymru yn ystod ymgyrch etholiadol 2003 fydd ‘hunllef annibyniaeth’. Beth y mae hynny’n profi? Yn gyntaf, mae’n profi bod y blaid yn gorfod chwilio am reswm i ymosod arnom. Yn ail, mae’n profi ei bod yn hollol anllythrennog ym maes polisi cyfansoddiadol, a dyna pam nad yw’n gallu paratoi tystiolaeth i gomisiwn Richard. Yn bwysicach na dim, mae’n dangos pa mor gyfyng yw uchelgais y Blaid Lafur i Gymru, mor bitw yw ei gweledigaeth ac mor enbyd ei hang-ups. Gwlad dlawd na allai fyth sefyll ar ei thraed ei hun yw dymuniad Llafur. Dyna yw ei gweledigaeth a dyna paham y mae’n ystyried annibyniaeth yn hunllef. Mae hynny’n dweud y cyfan am y Blaid Lafur.
We do not believe that miracles can be achieved over night. However, we believe passionately that Wales could be one of Europe’s most prosperous nation-regions. Does Labour believe that? Deep down, it does not. It has been confirmed that the main plank of Labour’s attack on Plaid Cymru during the 2003 Assembly elections will be ‘the nightmare of independence’. What does that prove? First, it proves that Labour is desperate for a reason to attack us. Secondly, it proves that it is completely illiterate in the field of constitutional policy, which is why it has failed to prepare evidence for the Richard commission. Most importantly, it reveals how limited its ambition for Wales is, how narrow its vision and how deep-rooted its hang-ups. Labour wants a poor country that could never stand on its own two feet. That is its vision and why it considers independence a nightmare. That says it all about the Labour Party.
Y gwahaniaeth rhwng Plaid Cymru a’r Blaid Lafur yw ein bod ni am weld cymaint o gyfrifoldeb â phosibl dros fywyd Cymru yn nwylo pobl Cymru tra bod Llafur am iddynt gael cyn lleied â phosibl a hynny cyn hwyred â phosibl. Cawn weld sut y bydd y sefyllfa’n datblygu pan fydd y drafodaeth honno’n twymo.
The difference between Plaid Cymru and the Labour Party is that we want the people of Wales to have as much responsibility as possible for life in Wales, while Labour wants them to have as little as possible as late as possible. We will see how the situation develops as that discussion heats up.
I was moved to hear that spirited answer from Cynog. His sincerity is obvious, but he still has not answered the question about independence. I was pleased to hear Ann Jones mention the economically inactive. We need to ensure that those people are supported. We have the best example of the uneconomically active on the Tory benches. Given that they put us in our current position, it is amazing to hear their hypocrisy. The Minister and the rest of the Government are fighting every day to improve the quality of life for the people of Wales through economic opportunity. Coming from Blaenau Gwent, where a 200-year-old steelworks has just been closed, I am very aware of the situation.
Cyffyrddwyd â’m calon o glywed yr ateb tanbaid hwnnw gan Cynog. Mae ei ddiffuantrwydd yn amlwg, ond nid yw byth wedi ateb y cwestiwn ynghylch annibyniaeth. Yr oeddwn yn falch o glywed Ann Jones yn sôn am y rhai economaidd anweithgar. Rhaid inni sicrhau y caiff y bobl hynny gymorth. Mae’r enghraifft orau o’r rhai aneconomaidd weithgar gennym ar feinciau’r Torïaid. O gofio mai hwy a’n rhoddodd yn ein sefyllfa bresennol, rhyfeddol yw clywed eu rhagrith. Mae’r Gweinidog a gweddill y Llywodraeth yn ymladd bob dydd i wella ansawdd bywyd pobl Cymru drwy gyfleoedd economaidd. A minnau’n un o Flaenau Gwent, lle y mae gwaith dur 200 mlwydd oed newydd ei gau, yr wyf yn ymwybodol iawn o’r sefyllfa.
David Davies a gododd—
David Davies rose—
I am sorry, I cannot take an intervention as I only have three minutes, but I will continue with the debate outside the Chamber after Plenary if you wish.
Mae’n ddrwg gennyf, ni allaf dderbyn ymyriad gan mai dim ond tair munud sydd gennyf, ond af ymlaen â’r ddadl y tu allan i’r Siambr ar ôl y Cyfarfod Llawn os dymunwch.
Interest rates and mortgage rates are at a record low and unemployment is falling throughout Wales. That is a fact. We could all say that we want the situation to be different in our own areas. I would like more people to be employed in my constituency; there are many unemployed people there. However, I was delighted when 100 new jobs were announced last week at Tillery Valley Foods, a well-respected company in Abertyleri. We should welcome positive news such as that. Who are the white knights—
Mae’r cyfraddau llog a’r cyfraddau morgeisi ar eu hisaf erioed ac mae diweithdra’n gostwng ledled Cymru. Mae hynny’n ffaith. Gallem oll ddweud ein bod yn dymuno i’r sefyllfa fod yn wahanol yn ein hardaloedd ein hunain. Hoffwn weld cyflogi mwy o bobl yn fy etholaeth i; mae llawer o bobl ddi-waith yno. Fodd bynnag, yr oeddwn wrth fy modd pan gyhoeddwyd 100 o swyddi newydd yr wythnos diwethaf yn Tillery Valley Foods, cwmni mawr ei barch yn Abertyleri. Dylem groesawu newyddion cadarnhaol o’r fath. Pwy yw’r gwaredwyr—
Gareth Jones a gododd—
Gareth Jones rose—
I cannot take an intervention because I do not have enough time, unless the Deputy Presiding Officer will give me more time.
Ni allaf dderbyn ymyriad gan nad oes gennyf ddigon o amser, os na wnaiff y Dirprwy Lywydd roi mwy o amser i mi.
Who are the white knights who will take all these measures to change the future of Wales and are all things to all people? They are not the Liberal Democrats, whom we are lumbered with. So they must be Plaid Cymru, because it has a bottomless pit of money. How does it equate that with having an independent Wales, which is undoubtedly the party’s philosophy? No matter how well meaning its proposals—I know that they are meant sincerely—it is castles in the air as far as Plaid Cymru is concerned.
Pwy yw’r gwaredwyr a fydd yn cymryd yr holl gamau hyn i newid dyfodol Cymru ac sy’n bopeth i bawb? Nid y Democratiaid Rhyddfrydol ydynt, sy’n faich arnom. Felly rhaid mai Plaid Cymru ydynt, gan fod ganddi bwll diwaelod o arian. Sut y mae’n cyfystyru hynny â chael Cymru annibynnol, gan mai honno yw athroniaeth y blaid yn ddi-os? Ni waeth pa mor dda eu bwriad y mae ei chynigion—a gwn fod bwriad diffuant iddynt—cestyll yn yr awyr ydynt o ran Plaid Cymru.
A gredwch, Peter, y byddai’r hyn a alwch yn ‘Gymru annibynnol’ yn rhwym o fod yn fethiant economaidd?
Do you believe, Peter, that what you call an ‘independent Wales’ would necessarily be an economic failure?
Yes, unfortunately. I believe that Wales would be reduced to a laverbread republic if we followed Plaid Cymru’s policy. Thanks to the UK Labour-led Government, we are getting record settlements in comprehensive spending reviews, which is giving us the opportunity to provide economic growth for the people of Wales as well as public services. There is no point in building castles in the air. We should not fall for the party of illusion, which is what Plaid Cymru is. It can always suggest a better proposal because it does not have the responsibility to deliver. We should follow the Labour Party. It is the party of reality, and is delivering positively for the all the people of Wales.
Credaf hynny, gwaetha’r modd. Credaf na fyddai Cymru’n fwy na gweriniaeth bara lawr pe byddem yn dilyn polisi Plaid Cymru. Diolch i Lywodraeth y DU dan arweiniad Llafur, yr ydym yn cael y setliadau gorau erioed yn yr adolygiadau cynhwysfawr o wariant, sy’n rhoi cyfle inni ddarparu twf economaidd ar gyfer pobl Cymru yn ogystal â gwasanaethau cyhoeddus. Nid oes diben codi cestyll yn yr awyr. Ni ddylem gymryd ein hudo gan blaid lledrith, sef yr hyn yw Plaid Cymru. Gall awgrymu cynllun gwell bob amser am nad oes ganddi’r cyfrifoldeb dros weithredu. Dylem ddilyn y Blaid Lafur. Hi yw plaid realiti, ac mae’n gweithredu’n gadarnhaol dros holl bobl Cymru.
I also thank Plaid Cymru for bringing forward for debate a subject that I consider to be the most important matter devolved to the Assembly. Unfortunately, three minutes will only allow me to touch upon one aspect of the motion, namely the importance of economic development.
yn Saesneg Yr wyf finnau’n diolch i Blaid Cymru am gyflwyno ar gyfer dadl bwnc yr wyf yn ei ystyried y pwysicaf o’r materion a ddatganolwyd i’r Cynulliad. Gwaetha’r modd, ni fyddaf ond yn gallu cyfeirio at un agwedd ar y cynnig o fewn tair munud, sef pwysigrwydd datblygu economaidd.
The pressure on young and economically active people to leave their local areas is probably felt most strongly in the Valleys and in rural Wales. I will focus on rural Wales and particularly those areas where the Welsh language is still an important part of community life. I developed my views on this subject many years ago. What happened to pupils in my class at Llanfair Caereinion High School was a formative experience. Almost every classmate left mid Wales to find work out of necessity. I would also have gone if there had not been an urgent need for me to work on the family farm. That was the norm in rural Wales in 1960.
yn Saesneg Mae’n debyg bod y pwysau ar bobl ifanc ac economaidd weithgar i adael eu hardal leol yn cael ei deimlo’n fwyaf yn y Cymoedd a’r Gymru wledig. Canolbwyntiaf ar y Gymru wledig ac yn enwedig ar yr ardaloedd hynny lle y mae’r Gymraeg yn parhau’n rhan bwysig o fywyd y gymuned. Ffurfiais fy marn ar y mater hwn lawer o flynyddoedd yn ôl. Yr oedd yr hyn a ddigwyddodd i’r disgyblion yn fy nosbarth i yn Ysgol Uwchradd Llanfair Caereinion yn brofiad ffurfiannol. Ymadawodd bron bob un o’m cyd-ddisgyblion â’r Canolbarth i ddod o hyd i waith o raid. Byddwn innau wedi mynd oni bai fod taer angen imi weithio ar fferm y teulu. Dyna oedd y norm yn y Gymru wledig yn 1960.
I congratulate the activist group, Cymuned, on its most recent public statements.
yn Saesneg Llongyfarchaf y grŵp gweithredol, Cymuned, ar ei ddatganiadau cyhoeddus diweddaraf.
Am sawl blwyddyn, condemniodd sawl gwleidydd weithredwyr dros yr iaith a gwrthodasant drafod â hwy, hyd yn oed os na fu unrhyw drais. Yr wyf yn cydnabod fy mod yn rhannu prif amcanion Cymuned, Cymdeithas yr Iaith Gymraeg, a phobl megis yr Archdderwydd. Nid ydym am golli’r iaith Gymraeg, yr ydym yn poeni am ei dyfodol ac yr ydym am ei gweld yn ffynnu. Fodd bynnag, yr ydym yn anghytuno ynglŷn â sut i sicrhau hyn. Credaf y dylem harneisio cefnogaeth y rhai hynny nad ydynt yn siarad Cymraeg a chadw ewyllys da pobl sydd wedi symud i Gymru i fyw. Mewn cynhadledd ym Mlaenau Ffestiniog yn ddiweddar, penderfynodd Cymuned mai datblygu economi lwyddiannus oedd y ffordd orau o gadw’r iaith Gymraeg. Mae sylwadau’r grŵp yn bwysig. Dyna’r agwedd a ddaw â llwyddiant. Mae Cymuned a minnau yn siarad yr un iaith ar fater pwysigrwydd yr economi. Da iawn, Cymuned.
in Welsh For many years, certain politicians condemned language activists and refused to hold discussions with them, even if there had been no violence. I acknowledge that I share the main objectives of Cymuned, the Welsh Language Society and people such as the Archdruid. We do not want to lose the Welsh language, we are concerned about its future and we want to see it prosper. However, we disagree about how to achieve this. I believe that we should harness the support of non-Welsh speakers and retain the goodwill of those who have moved to Wales to live. At a recent conference in Blaenau Ffestiniog, Cymuned decided that developing a prosperous economy was the best way to safeguard the Welsh language. The group’s comments are important. That is the attitude that will bring success. Cymuned and I speak the same language on the issue of the importance of the economy. Well done, Cymuned.
My constituency of Aberavon has experienced some of the worst ravages of the down-turn in manufacturing over the last five years. Although we have suffered many casualties from the down-turn in the manufacturing sector, I do not detect the same despondency and despair in the Aberavon area as I do in Plaid Cymru’s motion and the Conservatives’ amendment. In my part of Wales the attitude is: we fall down, we get up again; you will never keep us down. That spirit is not in the motion. That positive, dynamic spirit of resilience and self-confidence means that the unemployment rate has fallen in my constituency for 22 of the last 36 months, down to a record level of 3.7 per cent. That was unheard of when the Tory Party was in power. That has been achieved through active co-operation between Neath Port Talbot County Borough Council, Business Connect and the Welsh Development Agency, working in partnership with the local business community, the trade union movement and educational institutions.
Fy etholaeth i, Aberafan, a brofodd beth o’r anrheithio gwaethaf oherwydd y dirywiad mewn gweithgynhyrchu dros y pum mlynedd diwethaf. Er ein bod wedi profi llawer o golledion oherwydd y dirywiad yn y sector gweithgynhyrchu, ni synhwyraf yr un anobaith a digalondid yn ardal Aberafan ag y gwnaf yng nghynnig Plaid Cymru a gwelliant y Ceidwadwyr. Yn fy rhan i o Gymru yr agwedd a geir yw: cawn godwm, codwn ar ein traed eto; ni wnewch byth ein cadw i lawr. Nid yw’r ysbryd hwnnw yn y cynnig. Mae’r ysbryd cadarnhaol, dynamig hwnnw o wydnwch a hunanhyder yn golygu bod y gyfradd diweithdra wedi gostwng yn fy etholaeth i mewn 22 o’r 36 mis diwethaf, i’r lefel isaf erioed o 3.7 y cant. Ni ellid dychmygu hynny pan oedd y Blaid Dorïaidd mewn grym. Cyflawnwyd hynny drwy gydweithredu egnïol rhwng Cyngor Bwrdeistref Sirol Castell-nedd Port Talbot, Cyswllt Busnes ac Awdurdod Datblygu Cymru, gan weithio mewn partneriaeth â’r gymuned fusnes leol, mudiad yr undebau llafur a sefydliadau addysgol.
My constituency has witnessed the consolidation of Corus, despite many difficult years. We have seen the revival of the Engineering Centre for Manufacturing and Materials at the former Welsh Technology Centre. We have seen the new Baglan Energy Park, which offers the prospect of providing thousands of additional jobs in an area that desperately needs more work. Objective 1 has provided the necessary finance to facilitate these new developments, and innovative schemes, such as Source Baglan, have been developed to integrate these new developments into the local business community. Job shop Baglan was also established to ensure that local people can exploit the tremendous opportunities that the Baglan Energy Park provides.
Mae fy etholaeth i wedi gweld Corus yn atgyfnerthu, er gwaethaf llawer o flynyddoedd anodd. Gwelsom adfywio Canolfan Peirianneg Gweithgynhyrchu a Deunyddiau yng nghyn Ganolfan Dechnoleg Cymru. Gwelsom y Parc Ynni Baglan newydd, sy’n cynnig y gobaith o ddarparu miloedd o swyddi ychwanegol mewn ardal sydd ag angen dybryd am fwy o waith. Amcan 1 sydd wedi darparu’r cyllid angenrheidiol i hwyluso’r datblygiadau newydd hyn, ac mae cynlluniau arloesol, fel Source Baglan, wedi’u datblygu i integreiddio’r datblygiadau newydd â’r gymuned fusnes leol. Sefydlwyd Job shop Baglan hefyd i sicrhau bod pobl leol yn gallu manteisio ar y cyfleoedd gwych y mae Parc Ynni Baglan yn eu cynnig.
Gareth Jones a gododd—
Gareth Jones rose—
Sorry, Gareth, I do not have time to take an intervention.
Mae’n ddrwg gennyf, Gareth, nid oes gennyf ddigon o amser i dderbyn ymyriad.
There is also the prospect of the opening of a new Technium centre in the energy park that will provide a new generation of new value-added jobs. That is the reality of the new future for Wales.
Mae gobaith hefyd o agor canolfan Technium newydd yn y parc ynni a fydd yn darparu cenhedlaeth newydd o swyddi newydd â gwerth ychwanegol. Dyna realiti’r dyfodol newydd i Gymru.
Objective 1 has assisted us with funding for the energy park, and there are between 18 and 20 other schemes in the Neath Port Talbot area that are using Objective 1 money to develop local businesses which are, by and large, indigenous ones. There are 29 projects that are supported by regional selective assistance. The overwhelming majority of those are not overseas investments, but schemes developed by local businesses in the Port Talbot area. We do not live in an economic wilderness. We have the confidence and self-assurance to make the new future for a winning Wales. Our opponents do not have the self-belief to see that that can be achieved.
Mae Amcan 1 wedi ein helpu i ariannu’r parc ynni, ac mae rhwng 18 a 20 o gynlluniau eraill yn ardal Castell-nedd Port Talbot sy’n defnyddio arian Amcan 1 i ddatblygu busnesau lleol sydd, at ei gilydd, yn rhai cynhenid. Mae 29 o brosiectau sy’n cael cymorth rhanbarthol dewisol. Nid buddsoddiadau tramor yw’r mwyafrif llethol ohonynt, ond cynlluniau a ddatblygwyd gan fusnesau lleol yn ardal Port Talbot. Nid ydym yn byw mewn diffeithwch economaidd. Yr ydym yn meddu ar y ffydd a’r hunanhyder sydd eu hangen i greu’r dyfodol newydd ar gyfer Cymru sy’n ennill. Nid oes gan ein gwrthwynebwyr ddigon o hunanymddiriedaeth i weld y gellir cyflawni hynny.
Andrew Davies The Minister for Economic Development spoken in English p. 100
Andrew Davies Y Gweinidog dros Ddatblygu Economaidd siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 100
The Assembly Government is committed to transforming the economy of Wales. Our vision is that Wales will become more prosperous and that that prosperity will be sustainable and more evenly spread. I echo what Brian Gibbons said: regrettably all we hear from Plaid Cymru is the same old story about Wales not being able to achieve and about what it thinks Wales cannot do. Sadly, Plaid’s motion today is no different.
Mae Llywodraeth y Cynulliad wedi ymrwymo i drawsnewid economi Cymru. Ein gweledigaeth yw y bydd Cymru’n mynd yn fwy ffyniannus ac y bydd y ffyniant hwnnw’n gynaliadwy ac wedi’i ledaenu’n fwy cyfartal. Ategaf yr hyn a ddywedodd Brian Gibbons: gwaetha’r modd, y cwbl a glywn gan Blaid Cymru yw’r un hen stori am Gymru’n methu â chyflawni ac am yr hyn y mae’n credu na all Cymru ei wneud. Gwaetha’r modd, nid yw cynnig Plaid Cymru heddiw’n ddim gwahanol.
While we create conditions for growing businesses and new jobs, Plaid dwells on job losses. While we create new opportunities for our young people in a growing Welsh economy, it just declares its concern that people are leaving. It cannot look forward and refuses to have confidence in the Welsh economy. All Plaid Cymru does, as ever, is to talk Wales down.
Tra ydym ni’n creu amodau i dyfu busnesau a swyddi newydd, mae Plaid Cymru’n aros gyda cholledion swyddi. Tra ydym ni’n creu cyfleoedd newydd i’n pobl ifanc mewn economi Gymreig sydd ar gynnydd, nid yw hi ond yn datgan ei phryder bod pobl yn gadael. Ni all edrych ymlaen ac mae’n gwrthod ymddiried yn economi Cymru. Y cwbl a wnaiff Plaid Cymru, fel y gwnaeth erioed, yw bychanu Cymru.
Despite Helen Mary Jones’ bluster, we all know that Plaid Cymru will never form a government in Wales. The Conservative Party has formed governments in Westminster and the result of that can be seen around us: the decimation of traditional industries in Wales. Geoffrey Howe’s budget in 1981 decimated Welsh manufacturing. The Tory Government decimated the Welsh coal industry. We now see crocodile tears from the Tories. I do not remember the Tories in the 1980s and early 1990s offering anything to redundant steel or coal workers who were thrown on the scrap heap by Tory policies.
Er gwaethaf brygowthan Helen Mary Jones, gwyddom oll na wnaiff Plaid Cymru byth ffurfio llywodraeth yng Nghymru. Mae’r Blaid Geidwadol wedi ffurfio llywodraethau yn San Steffan ac mae canlyniad hynny i’w weld o’n cwmpas: anrheithio’r diwydiannau traddodiadol yng Nghymru. Cyllideb Geoffrey Howe yn 1981 a ddinistriodd weithgynhyrchu yng Nghymru. Y Llywodraeth Dorïaidd a anrheithiodd y diwydiant glo yng Nghymru. Yn awr gwelwn ddagrau crocodeil gan y Torïaid. Ni chofiaf y Torïaid yn y 1980au a dechrau’r 1990au’n cynnig dim i weithwyr dur a glo di-waith a daflwyd ar y domen gan bolisïau’r Torïaid.
Will you give way?
A wnewch ildio?
No. We are having to deal with the Tory legacy. As Mick Bates stated, the problems that we are faced with in the Welsh economy result from the decimation caused by 18 years of Tory rule. However, the Assembly Government, working with the UK Government, believes that the outlook for the UK and the Welsh economy is better now than it has been for some time. Inflation, mortgage and interest rates are at their lowest for a generation. Let us look at the facts, as Phil Williams implored. I am not being complacent—I acknowledge that there is still much to do, but there is also a good deal of progress to report.
Na wnaf. Yr ydym yn gorfod delio â’r hyn a adawodd y Torïaid. Fel y dywedodd Mick Bates, mae’r problemau a wynebwn yn economi Cymru’n ganlyniad i’r dinistr a achoswyd gan 18 mlynedd o lywodraeth Dorïaidd. Fodd bynnag, mae Llywodraeth y Cynulliad, gan weithio gyda Llywodraeth y DU, yn credu bod y rhagolygon ar gyfer economi’r DU a Chymru’n well nag y buont ers cryn amser. Mae cyfraddau chwyddiant, morgeisi a llogau ar eu hisaf ers cenhedlaeth. Gadewch inni edrych ar y ffeithiau, fel yr erfyniodd Phil Williams. Nid wyf yn ddifater—cydnabyddaf fod llawer eto i’w wneud, ond mae llawer iawn o gynnydd y gellir adrodd arno hefyd.
Unemployment is at its lowest rate in Wales for 35 years. Yes, the economy faces considerable challenges and yes, there have been job losses and I am not underestimating the huge impact of recent closures on communities in Wales, including my own. However, despite difficult world-trading conditions and underlying difficulties in the world economy—and do not forget that America has been on the verge of recession for around two years and Japan has been in recession even longer—employment in Wales has risen by 18,000 over the last year. Therefore, job losses are being more than offset by job gains.
Mae’r gyfradd diweithdra ar ei hisaf yng Nghymru ers 35 mlynedd. Ydyw, mae’r economi’n wynebu heriau sylweddol a do, bu colledion swyddi ac nid wyf yn bychanu effaith aruthrol y cau diweddar ar gymunedau yng Nghymru, gan gynnwys fy un i. Serch hynny, er gwaethaf yr amodau anodd ym masnach y byd a’r anawsterau sylfaenol yn economi’r byd—a pheidiwch ag anghofio bod America ar fin dirwasgiad ers tua dwy flynedd a bod Siapan mewn dirwasgiad ers cyfnod hwy byth—mae cyflogaeth yng Nghymru wedi codi o 18,000 dros y flwyddyn ddiwethaf. Felly, mae’r enillion swyddi’n gwneud iawn a mwy am y colledion swyddi.
I acknowledge that manufacturing has had a tough time and I have made statements here and in the Economic Development Committee on Allied Steel and Wire and Dewhirst in Swansea. Yes, 30,000 jobs have been lost, but 25,000 new manufacturing jobs have been created. Those new jobs tend to be in the more high-tech sector with higher value and are higher-paid jobs. Another significant fact that many colleagues have mentioned is economic activity rates. Economic activity levels have risen in Wales by 12,000 while they have dropped in the rest of the UK as a whole. Plaid Cymru just talks about dispersing prosperity without any realistic policies to achieve it. Meanwhile we are getting on with delivering an economic agenda that has led to the WDA creating or safeguarding over 60 per cent of jobs in the last three years in west Wales and the Valleys, and has led unemployment to fall at a greater rate in west Wales and the Valleys than it has in east Wales. To echo what Brian Gibbons just said: those are facts; this is the reality and people are responding to that. Unfortunately Plaid Cymru cannot acknowledge it.
Cydnabyddaf fod gweithgynhyrchu wedi profi cyfnod anodd a gwneuthum ddatganiadau yma ac yn y Pwyllgor Datblygu Economaidd am Allied Steel and Wire a Dewhirst yn Abertawe. Do, collwyd 30,000 o swyddi, ond mae 25,000 o swyddi gweithgynhyrchu newydd wedi’u creu. Mae’r swyddi newydd hynny yn y sector technoleg uwch gan mwyaf sydd â gwerth uwch ac maent yn swyddi â thâl uwch. Ffaith bwysig arall y mae llawer o’m cyd-Aelodau wedi’i chrybwyll yw cyfraddau gweithgarwch economaidd. Mae’r lefelau gweithgarwch economaidd wedi codi yng Nghymru o 12,000 tra bu gostyngiad ynddynt yng ngweddill y DU yn ei chyfanrwydd. Nid yw Plaid Cymru ond yn sôn am wasgaru ffyniant heb unrhyw bolisïau realistig i’w gyflawni. Yn y cyfamser yr ydym ni’n bwrw ymlaen â gweithredu agenda economaidd sydd wedi peri i’r WDA greu neu ddiogelu dros 60 y cant o swyddi yn y tair blynedd diwethaf yn y Gorllewin a’r Cymoedd, ac wedi peri i ddiweithdra ostwng yn gyflymach yn y Gorllewin a’r Cymoedd nag a wnaeth yn y Dwyrain. Gan ategu’r hyn y mae Brian Gibbons newydd ei ddweud: dyna’r ffeithiau; dyma’r realiti ac mae pobl yn ymateb i hynny. Gwaetha’r modd, ni all Plaid Cymru gydnabod hynny.
The biggest falls in unemployment in Wales have been in north-west and south-west Wales. The Member of Parliament for Anglesey told me recently that the second largest drop in unemployment in the whole of Wales has been in Ynys Môn. Jonathan Morgan’s amendment, calling for all regions to receive equal treatment, beggars belief. It could only come from a Conservative understanding of the needs of the Welsh economy. It ignores the poorest parts of Wales, forgets the most vulnerable and hits hard at the communities that we are now helping to get back on their feet. The poverty of those regions is the reason why we have Objective 1 status and we are making it a central plank for delivering on our economic and community regeneration agenda.
Bu’r gostyngiadau mwyaf mewn diweithdra yng Nghymru yn y Gogledd-orllewin a’r De-orllewin. Dywedodd yr Aelod Seneddol dros Ynys Môn wrthyf yn ddiweddar mai yn Ynys Môn y bu’r gostyngiad ail fwyaf mewn diweithdra yng Nghymru gyfan. Mae gwelliant Jonathan Morgan, sy’n galw am driniaeth gyfartal i bob rhanbarth, yn anhygoel. Ni allai ond codi o ddealltwriaeth Geidwadol o anghenion economi Cymru. Mae’n anwybyddu’r rhannau tlotaf o Gymru, yn anghofio’r rhai mwyaf agored i niwed ac yn bwrw’n galed yn erbyn y cymunedau yr ydym yn eu helpu’n awr i godi ar eu traed. Tlodi’r rhanbarthau hynny yw’r rheswm y mae gennym statws Amcan 1 ac yr ydym yn gwneud hynny’n elfen ganolog ar gyfer cyflawni ein hagenda ar yr economi ac adfywio cymunedol.
We are creating a climate in which businesses can grow and compete in the global economy. Plaid Cymru may not have noticed, but we have already identified companies with high-growth potential as part of our entrepreneurship action plan. However, I will never accept the selective Plaid Cymru approach that ignores business start-ups and solely focuses on high-growth companies—we need both. What will its approach do for the Valleys communities that Ieuan Wyn Jones claims to be championing?
Yr ydym yn creu hinsawdd lle y gall busnesau dyfu a chystadlu yn yr economi fyd-eang. Efallai nad yw Plaid Cymru wedi sylwi ar hynny, ond yr ydym eisoes wedi dynodi cwmnïau a chanddynt botensial twf mawr fel rhan o’n cynllun gweithredu entrepreneuriaeth. Fodd bynnag, ni wnaf byth dderbyn dull gweithredu detholus Plaid Cymru sy’n anwybyddu cychwyniadau busnes ac yn canolbwyntio’n llwyr ar gwmnïau twf mawr—mae arnom angen y ddau. Beth a wnaiff ei dull gweithredu ar gyfer cymunedau’r Cymoedd y mae Ieuan Wyn Jones yn honni eu cefnogi.
Our policies are already having an impact. Let me give you some examples. Latest figures show that, for the first time in years, the stock of VAT-registered companies in Wales has increased and that Welsh-registered businesses have a survival rate above the average rate in England and Scotland. Earnings data shows that Wales is now keeping pace with the rest of Britain. Last year, earnings in Wales rose above the average growth rate for the UK. In fact, in 2000-01, earnings rose faster in west Wales than they did in Wales on average. There are signs of a recovery for Welsh manufacturing despite difficult global conditions. A wide range of sectors have returned to positive growth in the second quarter of this year and the latest Chambers of Commerce survey showed increased investment in services and manufacturing. Welsh exports are bouncing back, with the second quarter showing an increase of nearly 10 per cent on the previous quarter. We have a growing Welsh economy and a stable economic platform for continuing to deliver our ‘A Winning Wales’ agenda.
Mae ein polisïau’n cael effaith eisoes. Gadewch imi roi rhai enghreifftiau i chi. Mae’r ffigurau diweddaraf yn dangos, am y tro cyntaf ers blynyddoedd, fod nifer y cwmnïau sydd wedi cofrestru ar gyfer TAW yng Nghymru wedi cynyddu a bod cyfradd goroesi busnesau a gofrestrwyd yng Nghymru yn uwch na’r cyfartaledd yn Lloegr a’r Alban. Mae’r data am enillion yn dangos bod Cymru bellach yn cadw’n wastad â gweddill Prydain. Y llynedd, cododd yr enillion yng Nghymru yn uwch na chyfradd twf gyfartalog y DU. Mewn gwirionedd, yn 2000-01, cododd yr enillion yn gynt yn y Gorllewin nag a wnaethant yng Nghymru ar gyfartaledd. Mae arwyddion o adferiad mewn gweithgynhyrchu yng Nghymru er gwaethaf yr amodau anodd yn fyd-eang. Mae amrediad eang o sectorau wedi ailddechrau tyfu yn ail chwarter y flwyddyn hon ac yr oedd arolwg diweddaraf y Siambrau Masnach yn dangos bod mwy o fuddsoddi mewn gwasanaethau a gweithgynhyrchu. Mae allforion Cymru’n ailgodi, ac mae’r ail chwarter yn dangos cynnydd o bron 10 y cant o gymharu â’r chwarter blaenorol. Mae gennym economi sy’n tyfu yng Nghymru a llwyfan economaidd cadarn i barhau i gyflawni ein hagenda ‘Cymru’n Ennill’.
We are delivering for businesses in Wales. Since July 1999, 658 regional selective assistance grants have been offered with a total value of more than £358 million. These projects are expected to attract more than £1.5 billion of private sector investment and they are spread right across Wales. Furthermore, we have offered nearly £96 million to 206 projects in the Objective 1 area—more than 75 per cent of the total offers made. How does that square with Plaid Cymru’s insistence that we are focusing on south-east Wales? We will continue to attract more high-quality jobs throughout Wales and extend opportunities to all parts of Wales.
Yr ydym yn mynd â’r maen i’r wal dros fusnesau yng Nghymru. Ers Gorffennaf 1999, cynigiwyd 658 o grantiau cymorth rhanbarthol dewisol gwerth cyfanswm o fwy na £358 miliwn. Disgwylir i’r prosiectau hyn ddenu mwy na £1.5 biliwn o fuddsoddiad gan y sector preifat ac maent ar wasgar ledled Cymru. At hynny, yr ydym wedi cynnig ymron i £96 miliwn i 206 o brosiectau yn ardal Amcan 1—mwy na 75 y cant o’r holl gynigion. Sut y mae hynny’n cyd-fynd â honiad Plaid Cymru ein bod yn canolbwyntio ar y De-ddwyrain? Parhawn i ddenu rhagor o swyddi o ansawdd da ledled Cymru ac ymestyn y cyfleoedd i bob rhan o Gymru.
Brian Hancock a gododd—
Brian Hancock rose—
I am running out of time and I wish to wind up.
Mae fy amser yn dod i ben a dymunaf derfynu.
On Objective 1 and the structural funds, despite Phil Williams’s constant bemoaning about decommitment, 1,000 projects are in the structural fund programme and £426 million has been committed. There are 656 Objective 1 projects worth nearly £380 million in west Wales and the Valleys and they are predicted to create a gross figure of 35,000 new jobs. Elin, if you are looking for indicators and outcomes, those are the ones in which we believe. That is not rhetoric; those are the facts.
Ynghylch Amcan 1 a’r cronfeydd strwythurol, er gwaethaf cwyno cyson Phil Williams am ddadrwymo, mae 1,000 o brosiectau yn rhaglen y cronfeydd strwythurol ac mae £426 miliwn wedi’i rwymo. Mae 656 o brosiectau Amcan 1 gwerth ymron i £380 miliwn yn y Gorllewin a’r Cymoedd a phroffwydir y byddant yn creu cyfanswm o 35,000 o swyddi newydd. Elin, os ydych yn chwilio am ddangosyddion a chanlyniadau, dyna’r rhai y credwn ni ynddynt. Nid rhethreg yw hynny; dyna’r ffeithiau.
Dafydd Wigley siaradwyd yn Gymraeg ac yn Saesneg t. 104
Dafydd Wigley spoken in Welsh and English p. 104
Yr wyf yn falch o’r cyfle i ateb y ddadl ar ran Plaid Cymru. Datganaf fuddiant fel cyfarwyddwr Picosorb, Caernarfon a Hufenfa De Arfon ac fel cadeirydd bwrdd ymgynghorol Ysgol Busnes a Datblygiad Rhanbarthol, Prifysgol Cymru, Bangor.
in Welsh I am pleased to be able to reply to the debate on behalf of Plaid Cymru. I declare an interest as director of Picosorb, Caernarfon and South Caernarfon Creameries and as chair of the University of Wales, Bangor’s School for Business and Regional Development advisory board.
Nid wyf erioed wedi clywed araith mor hunanfoddhaus ag un y Gweinidog dros Ddatblygu Economaidd. Pryd fyddwn yn cyrraedd y targed o 130,000 o swyddi newydd? Pryd fydd lefel incwm y pen yng Nghymru yn cyrraedd cyfartaledd Ewrop? Ni soniodd y Gweinidog am hynny. Mae’n fodlon â’r byd sydd ohoni.
in Welsh I have never heard a speech as smug as the one we heard from the Minister for Economic Development. When will we reach the target of 130,000 new jobs? When will per capita income levels in Wales reach the European average? The Minister did not mention that. He is happy with the situation as it stands.
Yn eu sylwadau, tanlinellodd amryw o Aelodau y problemau economaidd sy’n ein hwynebu. Y mwyaf sylfaenol ohonynt yw’r lefel isel o weithgarwch economaidd, ac mae ymrafael â hynny yn allweddol os ydym am godi lefel cynnyrch mewnwladol crynswth y pen. Mae hynny’n fwy perthnasol o lawer nag unrhyw ffigurau diweithdra. Mae gwelliant 1 y Llywodraeth, sy’n cyfeirio at gynnydd mewn gweithgarwch economaidd, yn gwbl gamarweiniol. Mae lefel anweithgarwch ymhlith pobl ifanc rhwng 14 a 24 oed wedi codi o 27 y cant yn ystod y 12 mis diwethaf. Erbyn hyn, mae 21,000 yn fwy o bobl ifanc yn yr ystod oedran hwn yn anweithgar yn economaidd o gymharu â 1999. Mae’r cynnydd yn lefel anweithgarwch merched Cymru wedi codi i 42 y cant dros y flwyddyn ddiwethaf. Mae’r sefyllfa hon yn hollol annerbyniol.
in Welsh Many Members’ comments highlighted the economic problems that we face. The most fundamental of those problems is the low level of economic activity, and dealing with that issue is key to raising the level of GDP per capita. That is far more relevant than any unemployment statistics. The Government’s amendment 1, which mentions an increase in economic activity, is totally misleading. The level of inactivity among young people aged between 14 and 24 has risen by 27 per cent in the last 12 months. Twenty one thousand more young people of this age are now economically inactive compared with 1999. The level of economic inactivity among women in Wales has risen to 42 per cent over the past year. That situation is completely unacceptable.
Bu hefyd ddirywiad sylweddol yn y sector gweithgynhyrchu yng Nghymru. Yr oedd allbwn y sector i lawr 7.3 y cant dros y flwyddyn ddiwethaf. Mae nifer y busnesau gweithgynhyrchu wedi gostwng o 125 dros yr un cyfnod. Nid oes prosiectau o sylwedd o dan raglen Amcan 1 yn cyfrannu’n uniongyrchol at sefydlu diwydiannau gweithgynhyrchu yng Nghymru.
in Welsh There was also a significant decline in the manufacturing sector in Wales. The sector’s output has fallen 7.3 per cent over the last year. The number of businesses fell by 125 over the same period. There are no significant Objective 1 projects contributing directly to establishing manufacturing industries in Wales.
The financial viability of companies in Wales has had a buffeting over the last 12 months. Profitability has declined by 56 per cent, and the average return on capital dropped from 5.8 per cent to 2.5 per cent. The Minister has ignored these facts.
yn Saesneg Mae hyfywedd ariannol cwmnïau yng Nghymru wedi cael ysgytiad dros y 12 mis diwethaf. Mae eu proffidioldeb wedi disgyn 56 y cant, ac mae’r enillion cyfartalog ar gyfalaf wedi disgyn o 5.8 y cant i 2.5 y cant. Anwybyddodd y Gweinidog y ffeithiau hynny.
The situation will get worse during the coming year. Increasing insurance costs are hitting the construction industry particularly hard. In the last few days a company in my constituency has had to—
yn Saesneg Bydd y sefyllfa’n gwaethygu yn ystod y flwyddyn i ddod. Mae costau yswiriant cynyddol yn bwrw’r diwydiant adeiladu’n arbennig o galed. Yn y dyddiau diwethaf hyn bu’n rhaid i gwmni yn fy etholaeth i—
Huw Lewis a gododd—
Huw Lewis rose—
I am running out of time. Those are the rules.
Mae fy amser yn dod i ben. Dyna’r rheolau.
A small company in my constituency has laid off 22 workers in the last few days solely because of increasing insurance costs.
Bu’n rhaid i gwmni bach yn fy etholaeth i wneud 22 gweithiwr yn segur yn y dyddiau diwethaf hyn dim ond oherwydd y costau yswiriant cynyddol.
The rate of business failure remains daunting. In the first nine months of 2002, 326 businesses in Wales failed—an increase of 17 per cent on the corresponding figure for last year.
Mae’r gyfradd methiannau busnes yn dal i fod yn frawychus. Yn naw mis cyntaf 2002, methodd 326 o fusnesau yng Nghymru—cynnydd o 17 y cant ar y ffigur cyfatebol y llynedd.
The rate of exports from Wales has dropped by 15 per cent, compared with 6 per cent in England. Firms need direct help to exploit export markets. They need details, not junketing by Ministers on export trade missions. We need a proactive programme; we need action. We must have regional targets. We need operating aids. What happened to the much-vaunted operating aids that the Liberal Democrats told us they had persuaded the Labour Government to deliver? Is Gordon Brown still thinking about it? The deputation to Pittsburgh a fortnight ago learnt of the importance of tax free zones in developing new employment opportunities. When will we have those opportunities in west Wales and the Valleys, so that new businesses can be attracted to those areas? We need targetted regional selective assistance so that small firms fulfil their growth potential. Such firms are much better value in terms of RSA than some larger firms. Broadband must be rolled out in industrial and rural areas alike, so that it reaches all potential businesses. As Helen Mary said, we must have training to meet the skill shortages, as that is key if we are to get the economy moving. We need greater management development in Wales. We need Master of Business Administration courses that are within small and medium-sized enterprises’ reach in each part of Wales, so that we can gain the skills that we need to drive the economy forward. We need help to instigate joint research between SMEs and universities to tap the talent that exists. That is what needs to be happening. It is not happening under this Government, and therefore we need a new Government to drive it forward.
Mae’r gyfradd allforio o Gymru wedi gostwng o 15 y cant, o gymharu â 6 y cant yn Lloegr. Mae ar fusnesau angen cymorth uniongyrchol i fanteisio ar farchnadoedd allforio. Mae arnynt angen manylion, nid sbloetiau gan Weinidogion ar deithiau masnach allforio. Mae arnom angen rhaglen ragweithiol; mae arnom angen gweithredu. Rhaid inni gael targedau rhanbarthol. Mae arnom angen cymhorthion gweithredu. Beth a ddigwyddodd i’r cymhorthion gweithredu yr oedd cymaint o frolio amdanynt y dywedodd y Democratiaid Rhyddfrydol wrthym eu bod wedi darbwyllo’r Llywodraeth Lafur i’w rhoi? A yw Gordon Brown yn dal i’w ystyried? Yr oedd y ddirprwyaeth i Pittsburgh bythefnos yn ôl wedi cael gwybod am bwysigrwydd parthau di-dreth wrth ddatblygu cyfleoedd cyflogaeth newydd. Pa bryd y cawn y cyfleoedd hynny yn y Gorllewin a’r Cymoedd, fel y gellir denu busnesau newydd i’r ardaloedd hynny? Mae arnom angen cymorth rhanbarthol dewisol a dargedir fel y gall busnesau bach wireddu eu potensial twf. Mae busnesau o’r fath yn rhoi llawer mwy o werth o ran cymorth rhanbarthol dewisol na rhai busnesau mwy. Rhaid darparu’r band eang mewn ardaloedd diwydiannol a gwledig fel ei gilydd, fel ei fod yn cyrraedd pob busnes posibl. Fel y dywedodd Helen Mary, rhaid inni gael hyfforddiant i ddatrys prinder sgiliau, gan fod hynny’n allweddol os ydym i yrru’r economi yn ei blaen. Mae arnom angen mwy o ddatblygu ar reolwyr yng Nghymru. Rhaid cael cyrsiau Meistr Gweinyddiaeth Fusnes sydd o fewn cyrraedd busnesau bach a chanolig eu maint ym mhob rhan o Gymru, fel y gallwn gael y sgiliau y mae arnom eu hangen i yrru’r economi yn ei blaen. Rhaid inni gael cymorth i gychwyn ymchwil ar y cyd rhwng busnesau bach a chanolig eu maint a phrifysgolion er mwyn defnyddio’r doniau sy’n bodoli. Dyna a ddylai ddigwydd. Nid yw’n digwydd dan y Llywodraeth hon, ac felly mae arnom angen Llywodraeth newydd i’w yrru ymlaen.
John Marek The Deputy Presiding Officer spoken in English p. 106
John Marek Y Dirprwy Lywydd siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 106
If amendment 1 is carried, amendment 2 will fall.
Os derbynnir gwelliant 1, bydd gwelliant 2 yn methu.
Gwelliant 1 Andrew Davies t. 107
Amendment 1 Andrew Davies p. 107
DerbyniwydAdopted O blaidFor 30 YmatalAbstain 0 Yn erbynAgainst 24
Derbyniwyd y gwelliant.
Amendment carried.
Sut y pleidleisiodd yr AelodauHow Members voted
O blaidFor (30)
- Lorraine Barrett
- Mick Bates
- Peter Black
- Eleanor Burnham
- Rosemary Butler
- Christine Chapman
- Jane Davidson
- Andrew Davies
- Ron Davies
- Sue Essex
- Delyth Evans
- Brian Gibbons
- Janice Gregory
- John Griffiths
- Christine Gwyther
- Alison Halford
- Edwina Hart
- Jane Hutt
- Ann Jones
- Carwyn Jones
- Peter Law
- Huw Lewis
- Val Lloyd
- Tom Middlehurst
- Lynne Neagle
- Alun Pugh
- Jenny Randerson
- Karen Sinclair
- Gwenda Thomas
- Kirsty Williams
Yn erbynAgainst (24)
- Nick Bourne
- Alun Cairns
- Cynog Dafis
- David Davies
- Geraint Davies
- Glyn Davies
- Janet Davies
- Jocelyn Davies
- William Graham
- Brian Hancock
- Pauline Jarman
- David Ian Jones
- Elin Jones
- Gareth Jones
- Helen Mary Jones
- Ieuan Wyn Jones
- David Lloyd
- David Melding
- Jonathan Morgan
- Peter Rogers
- Janet Ryder
- Rhodri Glyn Thomas
- Dafydd Wigley
- Phil Williams
Methodd gwelliant 2.
Amendment 2 falls.
Cynnig wedi’i ddiwygio Elin Jones t. 107
Amended motion Elin Jones p. 107
DerbyniwydAdopted O blaidFor 30 YmatalAbstain 0 Yn erbynAgainst 24
Derbyniwyd y cynnig.
Motion carried.
Sut y pleidleisiodd yr AelodauHow Members voted
O blaidFor (30)
- Lorraine Barrett
- Mick Bates
- Peter Black
- Eleanor Burnham
- Rosemary Butler
- Christine Chapman
- Jane Davidson
- Andrew Davies
- Ron Davies
- Sue Essex
- Delyth Evans
- Brian Gibbons
- Janice Gregory
- John Griffiths
- Christine Gwyther
- Alison Halford
- Edwina Hart
- Jane Hutt
- Ann Jones
- Carwyn Jones
- Peter Law
- Huw Lewis
- Val Lloyd
- Tom Middlehurst
- Lynne Neagle
- Alun Pugh
- Jenny Randerson
- Karen Sinclair
- Gwenda Thomas
- Kirsty Williams
Yn erbynAgainst (24)
- Nick Bourne
- Alun Cairns
- Cynog Dafis
- David Davies
- Geraint Davies
- Glyn Davies
- Janet Davies
- Jocelyn Davies
- William Graham
- Brian Hancock
- Pauline Jarman
- David Ian Jones
- Elin Jones
- Gareth Jones
- Helen Mary Jones
- Ieuan Wyn Jones
- David Lloyd
- David Melding
- Jonathan Morgan
- Peter Rogers
- Janet Ryder
- Rhodri Glyn Thomas
- Dafydd Wigley
- Phil Williams
Daeth y cyfarfod i ben am 5.31 p.m.
The session ended at 5.31 p.m.