English

Cynulliad Cenedlaethol CymruNational Assembly for Wales · Cyfarfod llawnPlenary sitting

Dydd Mawrth 4 Mawrth 2003

Tuesday 4 March 2003

DechreuoddMet 14:00 · Daeth i benRose 17:27

Gweld y Cofnod (PDF)View the Record (PDF)

Heb ei wirio â llaw etoNot yet checked by hand

CynnwysContents

  1. 3Cwestiynau i’r Prif WeinidogQuestions to the First Minister
    1. 3Dwyrain AbertaweSwansea East
    2. 4Lefel y Grant Cynnal RefeniwLevel of Revenue Support Grant
    3. 6Cynnydd Partneriaethau Cymunedau yn GyntafThe Progress of Communities First Partnerships
    4. 8Canlyniadau Cyfrifiad 2001Results of the 2001 Census
    5. 10Blaenoriaethau’r LlywodraethGovernment Priorities
    6. 14Ysbyty Cymunedol yn Nwyrain CaerdyddCommunity Hospital in Cardiff East
    7. 15Morâl Staff y GIG yng NghymruStaff Morale in the NHS in Wales
    8. 19Cymoedd De Cymru (Polisïau Iechyd)South Wales Valleys (Health Policies)
    9. 21Polisïau Economaidd a Chymdeithasol y LlywodraethThe Government’s Economic and Social Policies
    10. 23Canllawiau i Weinidogion ar Ateb CwestiynauGuidance for Ministers on Answering Questions
  2. 25Datganiad ar Gynrychiolaeth ym MrwselStatement on Representation in Brussels
  3. 35Datganiad BusnesBusiness Statement 1 bleidlais1 vote
  4. 40Pwyntiau o DrefnPoints of Order
  5. 41Cynnig Cyfansawdd: Cymeradwyo GorchmynionComposite Motion: Approval of Orders 1 bleidlais1 vote
  6. 43Cymeradwyo’r Gorchymyn Asiantaeth Diogelu Iechyd (The Health Protection Agency) (Sefydlu) 2003Approval of the Health Protection Agency (Yr Asiantaeth Diogelu Iechyd) (Establishment) Order 2003 1 bleidlais1 vote
  7. 45Cymeradwyo Rheoliadau’r Asiantaeth Diogelu Iechyd (The Health Protection Agency) 2003Approval of the Health Protection Agency (Yr Asiantaeth Diogelu Iechyd) Regulations 2003 1 bleidlais1 vote
  8. 46Cymeradwyo Cyllid Llywodraeth Leol (Cymru) Adroddiad Grant Arbennig (Rhif 21) (Cymru) 2002Approval of the Local Government Finance (Wales) Special Grant Report (No. 21) (Wales) 2002 1 bleidlais1 vote
  9. 59Cymeradwyo’r Gorchymyn Diwygio Rheoliadol (Addysg ac Ymchwil Betys Melys) 2003Approval of the Regulatory Reform (Sugar Beet Research and Education) Order 2003 1 bleidlais1 vote
  10. 60Strategaeth Pysgod a Physgodfeydd CymruThe Wales Fish and Fisheries Strategy 5 o bleidleisiau5 votes
  11. 77Hynt y Gwaith o Weithredu ‘Creative Future: Cymru Greadigol’Progress on the Implementation of ‘Creative Future: Cymru Greadigol’ 3 o bleidleisiau3 votes

PleidleisiauVotes

PleidlaisVoteO blaidForYmatalAbstainYn erbynAgainstCanlyniadResult
Datganiad BusnesBusiness Statement
CynnigMotion29019DerbyniwydAdopted
Cynnig Cyfansawdd: Cymeradwyo GorchmynionComposite Motion: Approval of Orders
Cynnig cyfansawdd NDM1364Composite motion NDM13644400DerbyniwydAdopted
Cymeradwyo’r Gorchymyn Asiantaeth Diogelu Iechyd (The Health Protection Agency) (Sefydlu) 2003Approval of the Health Protection Agency (Yr Asiantaeth Diogelu Iechyd) (Establishment) Order 2003
Cynnig NDM1369Motion NDM13693700DerbyniwydAdopted
Cymeradwyo Rheoliadau’r Asiantaeth Diogelu Iechyd (The Health Protection Agency) 2003Approval of the Health Protection Agency (Yr Asiantaeth Diogelu Iechyd) Regulations 2003
Cynnig NDM1368Motion NDM13683600DerbyniwydAdopted
Cymeradwyo Cyllid Llywodraeth Leol (Cymru) Adroddiad Grant Arbennig (Rhif 21) (Cymru) 2002Approval of the Local Government Finance (Wales) Special Grant Report (No. 21) (Wales) 2002
Cynnig NDM1365Motion NDM13653800DerbyniwydAdopted
Cymeradwyo’r Gorchymyn Diwygio Rheoliadol (Addysg ac Ymchwil Betys Melys) 2003Approval of the Regulatory Reform (Sugar Beet Research and Education) Order 2003
Cynnig NDM1366Motion NDM13663700DerbyniwydAdopted
Strategaeth Pysgod a Physgodfeydd CymruThe Wales Fish and Fisheries Strategy
Gwelliant 1Amendment 111027GwrthodwydRejected
Gwelliant 2Amendment 211028GwrthodwydRejected
Gwelliant 3Amendment 312028GwrthodwydRejected
Gwelliant 4Amendment 412028GwrthodwydRejected
Cynnig NDM1367Motion NDM13674000DerbyniwydAdopted
Hynt y Gwaith o Weithredu ‘Creative Future: Cymru Greadigol’Progress on the Implementation of ‘Creative Future: Cymru Greadigol’
Gwelliant 1Amendment 111027GwrthodwydRejected
Gwelliant 2Amendment 26628GwrthodwydRejected
Cynnig NDM1322Motion NDM13224000DerbyniwydAdopted

TrafodionProceedings

Cyfarfu’r Cynulliad am 2 p.m. gyda’r Llywydd yn y Gadair.

The Assembly met at 2 p.m. with the Presiding Officer in the Chair.

Cwestiynau i’r Prif Weinidog

Questions to the First Minister

Dwyrain Abertawe

Swansea East

Q1 Val Lloyd spoken in English p. 3

C1 Val Lloyd siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 3

What effect has the Welsh Assembly Government’s economic policy had in the constituency of Swansea East? (OAQ22778)

Pa effaith y mae polisi economaidd Llywodraeth Cynulliad Cymru wedi’i chael ar etholaeth Dwyrain Abertawe? (OAQ22778)

Rhodri Morgan The First Minister spoken in English p. 3

Rhodri Morgan Y Prif Weinidog siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 3

The best measure of the success of our economic development policies in terms of their effect on the constituency of Swansea East is to consider how unemployment has fallen there: it has fallen by over a quarter since the Assembly came into existence in July 1999, and by over a third since Labour came to power in May 1997.

Y ffon fesur orau i ddangos llwyddiant ein polisïau datblygu economaidd o ran eu heffaith ar etholaeth Dwyrain Abertawe yw’r modd y mae diweithdra wedi gostwng yno: gostyngodd o fwy na chwarter ers creu’r Cynulliad yng Ngorffennaf 1999, ac o fwy nag un rhan o dair ers i Lafur ddod i rym ym Mai 1997.

Val Lloyd spoken in English p. 3

Val Lloyd siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 3

All of the job gains are certainly welcome, as are the economic spin-offs that you outlined in those figures. Will you also welcome the excellent work done in Communities First areas, such as Blaen-y-Maes and Bonymaen in Swansea East, by the action teams for jobs in assisting individuals into employment, many for the first time?

Mae’r holl enillion o ran swyddi i’w croesawu, yn sicr, fel y mae’r canlyniadau economaidd y gwnaethoch eu disgrifio yn y ffigurau hynny. A wnewch hefyd groesawu’r gwaith rhagorol a wneir mewn ardaloedd Cymunedau yn Gyntaf, megis Blaen-y-maes a Bon-y-maen yn Nwyrain Abertawe, gan y timau gweithredu ar gyfer swyddi drwy helpu unigolion i gael swydd, lawer ohonynt am y tro cyntaf?

Rhodri Morgan The First Minister spoken in English p. 3

Rhodri Morgan Y Prif Weinidog siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 3

On my last visit to the area, we were able to see this for ourselves. Talking to those running the job teams, and asking them where the jobs were coming from, it was interesting that some jobs could be seen to be the direct result of the actions of the Westminster Government; for example, the Department for Work and Pensions’ 500-seat call centre answering pensions queries. In future, I am sure that jobs will come as a result of the expansion at Morganite Electrical Carbon Ltd, where we have helped to fund an additional 70 jobs, and at the new 118UK call centre, which will create 350 additional jobs in the constituency. It is important that these job creation teams undertake outreach work; the team at Blaen-y-Maes has been remarkably successful at placing people.

Ar fy ymweliad diwethaf â’r ardal, gallasom weld hyn drosom ein hun. Wrth siarad â’r rhai sy’n rhedeg y timau swyddi, a gofyn iddynt o ble y deuai’r swyddi, yr oedd yn ddiddorol gweld bod rhai swyddi’n ganlyniad uniongyrchol i gamau a gymerwyd gan Lywodraeth San Steffan; er enghraifft, y ganolfan alwadau â’i 500 o seddau o eiddo’r Adran Gwaith a Phensiynau, sy’n ateb ymholiadau am bensiynau. Yn y dyfodol, yr wyf yn siŵr y ceir swyddi o ganlyniad i’r ehangu yn Morganite Electrical Carbon Cyf, lle’r ydym wedi helpu i gyllido 70 o swyddi ychwanegol, ac yng nghanolfan alwadau newydd 118UK, a fydd yn creu 350 o swyddi ychwanegol yn yr etholaeth. Mae’n bwysig bod y timau creu swyddi hyn yn ymgymryd â gwaith allanol; bu’r tîm ym Mlaen-y-maes yn hynod lwyddiannus wrth gael swyddi i bobl.

David Lloyd siaradwyd yn Gymraeg t. 4

David Lloyd spoken in Welsh p. 4

A ydych yn cytuno bod y cwymp, mewn termau real, yn lefel cyflogau Abertawe a de-orllewin Cymru, yn fater sy’n achosi pryder, ac sy’n adlewyrchu colli swyddi gweithgynhyrchu a oedd yn talu cyflogau uchel? Os ydych yn cytuno, beth fydd eich Llywodraeth yn ei wneud am hyn?

Do you agree that the fall, in real terms, in wage levels in Swansea and south-west Wales is a cause for concern and that it reflects the loss of well-paid manufacturing jobs? If you agree, what will your Government do about it?

Rhodri Morgan Y Prif Weinidog siaradwyd yn Gymraeg t. 4

Rhodri Morgan The First Minister spoken in Welsh p. 4

Yn ôl y ffigurau swyddogol, mae’r cynnydd yn lefel cyflogau gorllewin Cymru a’r Cymoedd yn 4.9 y cant, sy’n uwch na’r cynnydd cyfatebol yng ngweddill Cymru a Phrydain Fawr—4.6 y cant yw’r ffigur yn y Deyrnas Unedig yn gyffredinol.

According to official figures, the increase in wage levels in west Wales and the Valleys is 4.9 per cent, which is greater than the corresponding increase in the rest of Wales and Great Britain—the figure is 4.6 per cent across the United Kingdom as a whole.

Lefel y Grant Cynnal Refeniw

Level of Revenue Support Grant

Q2 William Graham spoken in English p. 4

C2 William Graham siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 4

Will the First Minister make a statement on the level of revenue support grant for 2003-04? (OAQ22783) [R]

A wnaiff y Prif Weinidog ddatganiad ynghylch lefel y grant cynnal refeniw ar gyfer 2003-04? (OAQ22783) [R]

Rhodri Morgan The First Minister spoken in English p. 4

Rhodri Morgan Y Prif Weinidog siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 4

The Finance Minister, Edwina Hart, recently announced the level of revenue support grant for 2003-04. Details are on the Assembly’s website. Non-hypothecated funding to local authorities, from 1 April, will rise by over 9 per cent—I believe the figure is 9.2 per cent compared to this year.

Mae’r Gweinidog Cyllid, Edwina Hart, wedi cyhoeddi lefel y grant cynnal refeniw ar gyfer 2003-04 yn ddiweddar. Mae’r manylion ar wefan y Cynulliad. Bydd y cyllid i awdurdodau lleol sydd heb ei bridiannu, o 1 Ebrill, yn codi o fwy na 9 y cant—credaf fod y ffigur yn 9.2 y cant o’i gymharu â’r flwyddyn hon.

William Graham spoken in English p. 4

William Graham siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 4

The Finance Minister said that significant increases in funding will ensure that local authorities are able to meet all extra costs, including pay, pensions and national insurance contributions, as well as financing new services. Therefore, why have so many local authorities in Wales raided balances and increased their rates by over 9 per cent?

Dywedodd y Gweinidog Cyllid y bydd cynnydd sylweddol yn y cyllid yn sicrhau bod awdurdodau lleol yn gallu cwrdd â’r holl gostau ychwanegol, gan gynnwys tâl, pensiynau a chyfraniadau yswiriant gwladol, yn ogystal â chyllido gwasanaethau newydd. Gan hynny, pam y mae cynifer o awdurdodau lleol yng Nghymru wedi mynd i’r arian sydd ganddynt mewn llaw ac wedi cynyddu eu trethi o fwy na 9 y cant?

Rhodri Morgan The First Minister spoken in English p. 4

Rhodri Morgan Y Prif Weinidog siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 4

These are matters for local authorities to explain to their electorates. A distinction needs to be made between what we are doing in Wales—which, clearly, is to fully fund the increased costs that are being borne by local authorities, which you have just listed—and what is being done elsewhere. That may or may not be the policy elsewhere in the United Kingdom, but it certainly is the policy here. There will be areas where local authorities are overfunded and areas where they are underfunded, but the net balance is full funding. We understand that there is some overfunding of teachers’ pay but underfunding of teachers’ pensions, for example, but the situation balances itself, so that local authorities are fully funded for the increases in costs. That, of course, does not take account of some of the difficulties caused by the changes in the census figures, which indicate that some local authorities have more residents than previously thought, while others have fewer.

Materion i’w hegluro gan awdurdodau lleol i’w hetholwyr yw’r rhain. Rhaid gwahaniaethu rhwng yr hyn a wnawn yng Nghymru—sef, wrth gwrs, cwrdd yn llawn â’r costau cynyddol sy’n dod i ran awdurdodau lleol, yr ydych newydd eu rhestru—a’r hyn a wneir mewn mannau eraill. Efallai nad yw’r polisi hwnnw ar waith mewn mannau eraill yn y Deyrnas Unedig, ond hwnnw yw’r polisi yma, yn sicr. Bydd rhai meysydd lle y mae awdurdodau lleol wedi’u gorariannu ac eraill lle y maent wedi’u tanariannu, ond y canlyniad yn y pen draw yw cyllid llawn. Deallwn fod rhywfaint o orariannu ar dâl athrawon ond bod tanariannu ar bensiynau athrawon, er enghraifft, ond mae’r sefyllfa’n ei mantoli ei hun, fel bod awdurdodau lleol wedi’u cyllido’n llawn ar gyfer y cynnydd mewn costau. Wrth gwrs, nid yw hynny’n darparu ar gyfer rhai o’r anawsterau a achoswyd gan y newidiadau yn ffigurau’r cyfrifiad, sy’n dangos bod gan rai awdurdodau lleol fwy o drigolion nag y tybiwyd o’r blaen, tra bo llai gan eraill.

Brian Gibbons spoken in English p. 5

Brian Gibbons siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 5

Do you agree that the recent local government settlement and the establishment of the deprivation fund have been some of the most radical exercises in local government redistribution towards the areas of greatest need in Wales? While we would not expect the Conservatives to welcome redistribution towards areas of greatest need, Plaid Cymru was hypocritical not to support the settlement when we voted on it.

A ydych yn cytuno mai’r setliad diweddar ar gyfer llywodraeth leol a sefydlu’r gronfa amddifadedd yw rhai o’r camau mwyaf radical a gafwyd o ran ailddosbarthu i’r ardaloedd mwyaf anghenus yng Nghymru mewn llywodraeth leol? Er na ddisgwyliem i’r Ceidwadwyr groesawu ailddosbarthu i’r ardaloedd mwyaf anghenus, yr oedd yn rhagrithiol ar ran Plaid Cymru i beidio â chefnogi’r setliad pan wnaethom bleidleisio arno.

Rhodri Morgan The First Minister spoken in English p. 5

Rhodri Morgan Y Prif Weinidog siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 5

That is right. Three local authorities—namely Neath Port Talbot, Merthyr Tydfil and Blaenau Gwent county borough councils—were protected by the fact that, when the old counties existed, they could allocate additional resources to the poorest parts of West Glamorgan, Mid Glamorgan and Gwent without impacting on the council tax levied, and removing the county tier posed enormous problems for them. Until now, they were protected by the damping formula. That had to come to an end at some point, and it ended this year. However, it has been replaced by the deprivation grant for exactly the reason that you mentioned.

Mae hynny’n gywir. Yr oedd tri awdurdod lleol—sef cynghorau bwrdeistref sirol Castell-nedd Port Talbot, Merthyr Tudful a Blaenau Gwent—wedi’u hamddiffyn gan y ffaith bod yr hen siroedd yn gallu dyrannu adnoddau ychwanegol i rannau tlotaf Gorllewin Morgannwg, Morgannwg Ganol a Gwent heb effeithio ar y dreth gyngor a godid, ac yr oedd dileu’r haen sirol yn codi problemau mawr iddynt. Hyd yma, yr oeddent wedi’u hamddiffyn gan y fformiwla leddfu. Yr oedd yn rhaid i honno ddod i ben rywbryd, a daeth i ben eleni. Er hynny, rhoddwyd y grant amddifadedd yn ei lle am yr union reswm y gwnaethoch gyfeirio ato.

Janet Ryder spoken in English p. 5

Janet Ryder siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 5

First Minister, will you clarify that, please? Are you saying that the deprivation grant is a replacement for damping our transitional grant?

Brif Weinidog, a wnewch egluro hynny, os gwelwch yn dda? A ydych yn dweud bod y grant amddifadedd yn rhywbeth sy’n cymryd lle ein grant trosiannol?

Rhodri Morgan The First Minister spoken in English p. 5

Rhodri Morgan Y Prif Weinidog siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 5

There is no issue surrounding the deprivation grant. The only important issue is that the grant considers the deprivation of an area and reflects upon whether an authority has additional reasons to warrant extra resources. It does not matter what the reasons are; the grant is available. It is only important that it provides Blaenau Gwent, Merthyr Tydfil and Neath Port Talbot county borough councils with additional funds, funds that are not given to other areas, which do not have the average level of deprivation of those three authorities.

Nid oes dim i’w ddweud am y grant amddifadedd. Yr unig fater pwysig yw bod y grant yn ystyried yr amddifadedd a geir mewn ardal ac a oes rhesymau ychwanegol gan awdurdod sy’n galw am adnoddau ychwanegol. Nid yw o bwys beth yw’r rhesymau; mae’r grant ar gael. Yr unig beth pwysig yw ei fod yn darparu cyllid ychwanegol ar gyfer cynghorau bwrdeistref sirol Blaenau Gwent, Merthyr Tudful a Chastell-nedd Port Talbot, nas rhoddir i ardaloedd eraill, sydd heb y lefel amddifadedd gyfartalog a geir yn y tri awdurdod hynny.

Cynnydd Partneriaethau Cymunedau yn Gyntaf

The Progress of Communities First Partnerships

Q3 Janet Davies spoken in English p. 6

C3 Janet Davies siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 6

Will the First Minister make a statement on the progress made by Communities First partnerships in South Wales West? (OAQ22769)

A wnaiff y Prif Weinidog ddatganiad ynghylch cynnydd y partneriaethau Cymunedau yn Gyntaf yng Ngorllewin De Cymru? (OAQ22769)

Rhodri Morgan The First Minister spoken in English p. 6

Rhodri Morgan Y Prif Weinidog siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 6

Communities First partnerships are making good progress in South Wales West. To date, six of the 79 embryonic Communities First partnerships established are in South Wales West, and funding of £3.6 million has been allocated to drive the programme forward at the local level.

Mae’r partneriaethau Cymunedau yn Gyntaf yn gwneud cynnydd da yng Ngorllewin De Cymru. Hyd yma, mae chwech o’r 79 partneriaeth Cymunedau yn Gyntaf gychwynnol a sefydlwyd yng Ngorllewin De Cymru, a dyrannwyd cyllid o £3.6 miliwn i hybu’r rhaglen ar lefel leol.

Janet Davies spoken in English p. 6

Janet Davies siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 6

First Minister, I understand that your Government is about to embark upon an interim evaluation of the Communities First programme, including construction of the baseline profiles. Do you know whether that will include surrounding communities, as I know that you wish to estimate the displacement effect? What will it cost and how long will it take?

Brif Weinidog, deallaf fod eich Llywodraeth ar fin dechrau gwerthusiad dros dro o raglen Cymunedau yn Gyntaf, gan gynnwys llunio’r proffiliau llinell sylfaen. A wyddoch a fydd hynny’n cynnwys cymunedau cyffiniol, gan fy mod yn gwybod eich bod yn dymuno amcangyfrif yr effaith dadleoli? Beth fydd ei gost ac am ba hyd y bydd yn parhau?

Rhodri Morgan The First Minister spoken in English p. 6

Rhodri Morgan Y Prif Weinidog siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 6

I shall ensure that that detailed question is given a full written answer, either from myself, or from Edwina Hart as the Minister responsible.

Sicrhaf y rhoddir ateb ysgrifenedig llawn i’r cwestiwn manwl hwnnw, un ai gennyf fi, neu gan Edwina Hart fel y Gweinidog sy’n gyfrifol.

Christine Chapman spoken in English p. 6

Christine Chapman siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 6

Rhodri, do you agree that it is vital that all Communities First partnerships publicise and promote their work? That would encourage all members of the community to feel that they have ownership over community regeneration in their areas, and would promote sharing best practice with partnerships across Wales. Do you also agree that this process has the potential of bringing communities together and facilitating community improvement as much as any of the community projects resulting from the process?

Rhodri, a ydych yn cytuno ei bod yn hollbwysig i’r holl bartneriaethau Cymunedau yn Gyntaf roi cyhoeddusrwydd i’w gwaith a’i hyrwyddo? Byddai hynny’n cymell pob aelod o’r gymuned i deimlo eu bod yn berchen ar yr adfywio cymunedol yn eu hardal, a byddai’n hwyluso rhannu’r arferion gorau gyda phartneriaethau ledled Cymru. A ydych hefyd yn cytuno y dichon i’r broses hon ddod â chymunedau at ei gilydd ac y gallai hwyluso gwelliannau mewn cymunedau i’r un graddau ag unrhyw un o’r prosiectau cymunedol sy’n deillio o’r broses?

Rhodri Morgan The First Minister spoken in English p. 7

Rhodri Morgan Y Prif Weinidog siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 7

Indeed. Although Communities First was, in a way, piloted by people in communities during the Assembly’s first year, its first job was to establish and build capacity in our 100 most multiply deprived communities. That has not been easy, but that foundation must be laid down first, before we can start helping communities to identify credible priorities. Communities must decide on their priorities, not people with professional skills moving in from the outside. Sometimes, communities are initially ill-equipped, which is why the capacity-building phase is first, and some have felt frustrated by that. However, the fruits of that labour will undoubtedly be borne by getting strong, genuine bottom-up community regeneration in our most deprived communities.

Yn wir. Er bod Cymunedau yn Gyntaf wedi’i ragbrofi, ar ryw ystyr, gan bobl mewn cymunedau yn ystod blwyddyn gyntaf y Cynulliad, ei dasg gyntaf oedd sefydlu a datblygu potensial yn y 100 cymuned sydd â’r amddifadedd lluosog mwyaf. Ni fu hynny’n hawdd, ond rhaid gosod y sylfaen honno’n gyntaf, cyn y gallwn ddechrau helpu cymunedau i ganfod blaenoriaethau credadwy. Cymunedau sy’n gorfod penderfynu ar eu blaenoriaethau, nid pobl â sgiliau proffesiynol sy’n symud i mewn o’r tu allan. Weithiau, nid yw cymunedau’n barod am y gwaith, a dyna pam y ceir y cam datblygu potensial yn gyntaf, ac mae rhai wedi teimlo’n rhwystredig oherwydd hynny. Er hynny, mae’n sicr y daw ffrwyth o’r llafur hwnnw ar ffurf adfywio cymunedol gwirioneddol o’r gwaelod i fyny yn ein cymunedau mwyaf difreintiedig.

William Graham spoken in English p. 7

William Graham siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 7

First Minister, you will agree that many issues need to be addressed if Communities First is to succeed, most noticeably the number of qualified community workers to attract to the schemes. However, should we not also highlight the initiatives of recycling schemes, such as Newport Waste Savers?

Brif Weinidog, byddwch yn cytuno bod nifer o faterion sy’n gofyn sylw os yw Cymunedau yn Gyntaf i lwyddo, a’r un mwyaf amlwg yw’r nifer o weithwyr cymunedol cymwys i’w denu i’r cynlluniau. Fodd bynnag, oni ddylem hefyd dynnu sylw at fentrau gan gynlluniau ailgylchu, megis Newport Waste Savers?

Rhodri Morgan The First Minister spoken in English p. 7

Rhodri Morgan Y Prif Weinidog siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 7

There are Communities First schemes on credit unions, waste paper recycling, recovery of furniture, job creation and job advice—as in Blaen-y-maes, as I mentioned in response to Val Lloyd on a similar question. It is up to communities to decide on their priorities. It was a remarkable piece of original thinking that led us to go for Communities First, so that the poorest communities in Wales are helped to regenerate themselves, rather than having it done for them and handed down to them.

Ceir cynlluniau Cymunedau yn Gyntaf ar undebau credyd, ailgylchu papur gwastraff, adfer dodrefn, creu swyddi a chyngor ar swyddi—fel a geir ym Blaen-y-maes, fel y nodais yn fy ateb i Val Lloyd ar gwestiwn tebyg. Mater i gymunedau yw penderfynu ar eu blaenoriaethau. Syniad rhyfeddol o wreiddiol a’n parodd i ddewis Cymunedau yn Gyntaf, fel bod y cymunedau tlotaf yng Nghymru’n cael cymorth i’w hadfywio eu hunain, yn hytrach na chael rhai i wneud hynny drostynt a’i estyn i lawr iddynt.

Peter Black spoken in English p. 7

Peter Black siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 7

Communities First partnerships, particularly between local government and communities, have been successful. Many communities have found it difficult to attract local businesses to participate in those partnerships. Will you review the Communities First guidance to find ways of getting businesses more involved?

Mae partneriaethau Cymunedau yn Gyntaf, yn enwedig rhai rhwng llywodraeth leol a chymunedau, wedi bod yn llwyddiannus. Mae llawer o gymunedau wedi’i chael yn anodd denu busnesau lleol i gymryd rhan yn y partneriaethau hynny. A wnewch adolygu’r canllawiau ar gyfer Cymunedau yn Gyntaf er mwyn canfod ffyrdd i gael gan fusnesau gymryd mwy o ran?

Rhodri Morgan The First Minister spoken in English p. 8

Rhodri Morgan Y Prif Weinidog siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 8

It is an interesting thought. During visits to Communities First partnerships I have noticed the close partnership with the police, which pleases me a great deal, however, private business may be lagging behind. It was natural that the police force participated early, because policemen and women were needed on the beat in those Communities First areas. We must recover the community’s confidence that crime is a problem that can be cracked or people will want to leave the area if they can get onto a transfer list; therefore, the police force was an important early priority. However, getting the private sector to participate by helping to renovate retail premises, shopping parades and so on, and by bringing work and workshops into the area could be an important priority in the second phase.

Mae’n syniad diddorol. Yn ystod ymweliadau â phartneriaethau Cymunedau yn Gyntaf yr wyf wedi sylwi ar y partneriaethau agos a geir â’r heddlu, sy’n rhoi llawer o foddhad i mi. Fodd bynnag, efallai fod busnes preifat ar ei hôl hi. Yr oedd yn naturiol i’r heddlu gymryd rhan yn gynnar, gan fod angen heddweision ar eu rhawd yn yr ardaloedd Cymunedau yn Gyntaf hynny. Rhaid inni ailennyn hyder yn y gymuned i gredu bod trosedd yn broblem y gellir ei datrys neu bydd pobl am adael yr ardal os gallant gael lle ar restr trosglwyddo; felly, yr oedd yr heddlu’n flaenoriaeth bwysig yn gynnar. Fodd bynnag, byddai cael gan y sector preifat gymryd rhan drwy helpu i adnewyddu siopau, rhodfeydd siopa ac yn y blaen, a thrwy ddod â gwaith a gweithdai i’r ardal yn gallu bod yn flaenoriaeth bwysig yn yr ail gam.

Dafydd Elis-Thomas Y Llywydd siaradwyd yn Gymraeg t. 8

Dafydd Elis-Thomas The Presiding Officer spoken in Welsh p. 8

Tynnwyd cwestiwn 4 (OAQ22601) yn ôl.

Question 4 (OAQ22601) has been withdrawn.

Canlyniadau Cyfrifiad 2001

Results of the 2001 Census

C5 Cynog Dafis siaradwyd yn Gymraeg t. 8

Q5 Cynog Dafis spoken in Welsh p. 8

A wnaiff y Prif Weinidog ddatganiad ar ganlyniadau cyfrifiad 2001 a gyhoeddwyd yn ddiweddar? (OAQ22768)

Will the First Minister make a statement on the results of the 2001 census published recently? (OAQ22768)

Rhodri Morgan Y Prif Weinidog siaradwyd yn Gymraeg t. 8

Rhodri Morgan The First Minister spoken in Welsh p. 8

Croesawaf gyhoeddi canlyniadau cryno cyfrifiad 2001. Dyna’r cyfan a gawsom hyd yn hyn ond maent yn rhoi rhyw linyn mesur newydd i ni. Dim ond ar ôl cyhoeddi’r canlyniadau manwl y cawn ddarlun trylwyr o nodweddion poblogaeth Cymru, y ffactorau sy’n gyfrifol am y newidiadau ers y cyfrifiad blaenorol, a’r gallu i gymharu â Lloegr, yr Alban a Gogledd Iwerddon ac yn y blaen.

I welcome the publication of the summary results of the 2001 census. That is all that we have received to date but they do provide a new benchmark of sorts. Only after the publication of the detailed results will we have a complete picture of the population of Wales, the factors responsible for changes since the previous census and the ability to compare with England, Scotland, Northern Ireland and so on.

Cynog Dafis siaradwyd yn Gymraeg t. 8

Cynog Dafis spoken in Welsh p. 8

A ydych yn derbyn bod Cymoedd y De yn colli poblogaeth ar raddfa sylweddol, yn enwedig ymysg yr ifanc a’r rhai sy’n economaidd weithgar ac felly bod angen—yn ogystal â strategaethau megis Cymunedau yn Gyntaf—strategaeth ddatblygu integredig, bwrpasol ar gyfer y Cymoedd, wedi ei chyllido yn ddigonol, er mwyn gwrthdroi’r tuedd? A oes gennych chi, neu Lywodraeth Cymru, unrhyw strategaeth debyg mewn golwg?

Do you accept that the south Wales Valleys have seen a substantial decrease in population, especially among the young and the economically active, and that therefore we must develop an integrated, custom-made and fully-funded development strategy for the Valleys—in addition to strategies such as Communities First—in order to reverse that trend? Do you, or the Government of Wales, have any such strategy in mind?

Rhodri Morgan Y Prif Weinidog siaradwyd yn Gymraeg t. 9

Rhodri Morgan The First Minister spoken in Welsh p. 9

Mae’r strategaeth honno yn bodoli eisoes. Credaf mai’r nodwedd y gallai pawb ei gweld yn ffigurau cynnar y cyfrifiad oedd y cwymp o tua 6 y cant ym mhoblogaeth Caerdydd, o’i gymharu â’r hyn a oedd yn ddisgwyliedig tra bu cynnydd ym mhoblogaeth rhai ardaloedd, er enghraifft Ceredigion. Er y bu cwymp mewn ardaloedd fel Merthyr Tudful, yr oedd pawb yn ei ddisgwyl ac nid oedd yn waeth na’r hyn a oedd yn ddisgwyliedig o ystyried cyfrifiad 1991 a’r ffigurau rhwng-gyfrifiad a gawn o’r ffynonellau ystadegol arferol.

That strategy already exists. I think that the trend that became obvious in these initial census figures was the drop of around 6 per cent in Cardiff’s population, compared to what was expected, while there was an increase in the population of some areas, such as Ceredigion. Although there was a decrease in areas such as Merthyr Tydfil, everybody expected it and it was no worse than the anticipated fall bearing in mind the 1991 census and the interim figures that we receive from the usual statistical sources.

Eleanor Burnham siaradwyd yn Gymraeg t. 9

Eleanor Burnham spoken in Welsh p. 9

Yr wyf yn siŵr ein bod ni oll yn croesawu ffigurau’r cyfrifiad sy’n dynodi cynnydd yng nghanran y siaradwyr Cymraeg ledled Cymru. Pa mor hyderus ydych y gallwn gadw’r iaith Gymraeg yn iaith gymunedol, fyw mewn mannau fel Gwynedd, pan fo pobl ifanc yn dod i Gaerdydd i gael gwaith a bywyd mwy Cymreig?

I am sure that we all welcome the census figures that note an increase in the number of Welsh speakers across Wales. How confident are you that we can sustain the Welsh language as a vibrant, community language in places such as Gwynedd, when young people are moving to Cardiff to seek work and a way of life that is more Welsh in nature?

Rhodri Morgan Y Prif Weinidog siaradwyd yn Gymraeg t. 9

Rhodri Morgan The First Minister spoken in Welsh p. 9

Nid wyf yn siŵr eu bod yn symud i Gaerdydd ar yr un raddfa ag o’r blaen. Efallai eu bod yn symud i Gaerdydd yn hytrach nag i Lerpwl, i Fanceinion neu i Lundain, ond nid wyf yn ymwybodol o unrhyw ffigurau sy’n dangos cynnydd yn y ganran sy’n symud i Gaerdydd o’r ardaloedd lle mae’r Gymraeg yn iaith arferol ar y stryd ac yn y siopau. Mae cwymp yng nghanran nifer y siaradwyr Cymraeg yn yr ardaloedd lle yr oedd y Gymraeg yn gryf, fel y cwymp o 7 y cant yng Ngheredigion a 5 y cant yn Sir Gaerfyrddin ond dim ond cwymp o 3 y cant a welwyd yng Ngwynedd.

I am not sure that they are moving to Cardiff at the same rate as they were. Perhaps they are moving to Cardiff instead of to Liverpool, Manchester or London but I am not aware of any figures that indicate an increase in the percentage of those moving to Cardiff from areas where Welsh is the everyday language on the streets and in the shops. There has been a decrease in the percentage of Welsh speakers in those areas where Welsh was strong, such as the decrease of 7 per cent in Ceredigion and 5 per cent in Carmarthenshire but in Gwynedd the percentage fall has only been 3 per cent.

David Ian Jones spoken in English p. 9

David Ian Jones siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 9

You will be aware that Cardiff County Council has expressed concern as to the accuracy of the census figures. This concern is not unique to Cardiff, it has also been expressed, for example, by the City of Westminster where the census figures show a population of some 60,000 less than that which was anticipated by the Office for National Statistics. How satisfied are you that these census figures are robust and, if you are not entirely satisfied, are you prepared to express your concerns directly to the ONS?

Byddwch yn ymwybodol bod Cyngor Sir Caerdydd wedi mynegi pryder ynghylch cywirdeb ffigurau’r cyfrifiad. Nid yng Nghaerdydd yn unig y ceir y pryder hwn, gan ei fod wedi’i fynegi hefyd, er enghraifft, gan Ddinas Westminster lle y mae ffigurau’r cyfrifiad yn dangos poblogaeth sydd tua 60,000 yn llai na’r hyn a ragwelwyd gan y Swyddfa Ystadegau Gwladol. Pa mor fodlon yr ydych fod y ffigurau cyfrifiad hyn yn ddibynadwy ac, os nad ydych yn gwbl fodlon, a ydych yn barod i fynegi’ch pryderon yn uniongyrchol i’r Swyddfa Ystadegau Gwladol?

Rhodri Morgan The First Minister spoken in English p. 10

Rhodri Morgan Y Prif Weinidog siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 10

The ONS regards the results of the 2001 census as the most accurate ever. I am not sure what that tells us about previous censuses but we are aware of the challenge to the census posed by Westminster City Council or Kensington and Chelsea Borough Council. I believe that six local authorities in England show a fall of over 10 per cent in their expected population. Cardiff’s problems, with a fall of just under 6 per cent, pale in comparison with the huge falls in Manchester, Kensington and Chelsea, Westminster, and the other three authorities. That judicial review will take its course; I am not in a position to comment on it as I am not a demographer. We know that the fall in Wales’s population as a whole, compared to the expected figure, was less than the fall in England. Therefore, Wales as a whole has not lost out in terms of the transfer of resources to us. However, everyone will be watching the outcome of Westminster City Council’s judicial review.

Mae’r Swyddfa Ystadegau Gwladol o’r farn mai canlyniadau cyfrifiad 2001 yw’r rhai cywiraf erioed. Nid wyf yn sicr beth a ddywed hynny wrthym am gyfrifiadau blaenorol ond yr ydym yn ymwybodol o’r her i’r cyfrifiad a gyflwynwyd gan Gyngor Dinas Westminster neu Gyngor Bwrdeistref Kensington a Chelsea. Credaf fod chwe awdurdod lleol yn Lloegr yn dangos gostyngiad o fwy na 10 y cant yn eu poblogaeth ddisgwyliedig. Mae problemau Caerdydd, sydd â gostyngiad o ychydig o dan 6 y cant, yn ddim mewn cymhariaeth â’r gostyngiadau anferth ym Manceinion, Kensington a Chelsea, Westminster, a’r tri awdurdod arall. Bydd yr arfraniad barnwrol hwnnw’n dilyn ei hynt; nid wyf yn gymwys i wneud sylw amdano gan nad ydwyf yn ddemograffydd. Gwyddom fod y gostyngiad ym mhoblogaeth Cymru yn ei chyfanrwydd, o’i gymharu â’r ffigur a ddisgwyliwyd, yn llai na’r gostyngiad yn Lloegr. Gan hynny, nid yw Cymru yn ei chyfanrwydd ar ei cholled o ran yr adnoddau a drosglwyddir i ni. Er hynny, bydd bawb yn gwylio canlyniad adolygiad barnwrol Cyngor Dinas Westminster.

Blaenoriaethau’r Llywodraeth

Government Priorities

C6 Ieuan Wyn Jones Arweinydd yr Wrthblaid siaradwyd yn Gymraeg t. 10

Q6 Ieuan Wyn Jones The Leader of the Opposition spoken in Welsh p. 10

A wnaiff y Prif Weinidog ddatganiad ar flaenoriaethau ei Lywodraeth yn ystod y ddau fis nesaf? (OAQ22776)

Will the First Minister make a statement on his Government’s priorities over the next two months? (OAQ22776)

Rhodri Morgan Y Prif Weinidog siaradwyd yn Gymraeg t. 10

Rhodri Morgan The First Minister spoken in Welsh p. 10

Mae blaenoriaethau Llywodraeth Cynulliad Cymru ar gyfer y ddau fis nesaf yn parhau fel y’u nodwyd yn eglur yn ‘Cynllun i Gymru 2001’. Maent yn cynnwys parhau i leihau diweithdra. Yr wyf yn siŵr y bydd arweinydd yr wrthblaid yn croesawu datblygiadau’r wyth neu’r naw niwrnod diwethaf gyda 118UK yn symud i Abertawe, gan greu 350 swydd ychwanegol; y ffaith ein bod wedi diogelu 4,000 swydd yn Asiantaeth Atgyweirio Awyrennau Amddiffyn yn y Gogledd a’r De; yn ogystal â’r datganiadau diweddaraf ynglŷn â Formula Insurance Solutions a Zurich Financial Services Group a fydd yn golygu rhyw 350 swydd ychwanegol yng Nghaerdydd, a Centerprise International Ltd, a fydd yn darparu 300 swydd newydd yng Nghaerffili pan fydd yn symud o Basingstoke y flwyddyn nesaf.

The priorities of the Welsh Assembly Government over the next two months remain those clearly set out in ‘Plan for Wales 2001’. They include continuing to reduce unemployment. I am sure that the leader of the opposition will welcome the developments of the last eight or nine days with 118UK moving to Swansea, creating 350 additional jobs; the fact that we have safeguarded 4,000 jobs in the Defence Aviation Repair Agency in north and south Wales; in addition to the latest announcements on Formula Insurance Solutions and Zurich Financial Services Group, which will create some 350 additional jobs in Cardiff, and on Centerprise International Ltd, which will provide 300 new jobs in Caerphilly when it moves from Basingstoke next year.

Ieuan Wyn Jones siaradwyd yn Gymraeg t. 11

Ieuan Wyn Jones spoken in Welsh p. 11

Yr ydym, wrth gwrs, yn croesawu unrhyw newyddion da am swyddi, ond sylwaf nad yw’r Prif Weinidog yn sôn am y miloedd o swyddi a gollwyd yn ystod pedair blynedd teyrnasiad ei Lywodraeth. Mae’n rhaid iddo roi pwyslais cywir ar hynny. Ni chyfeiriodd at yr addewidion a wnaeth yn ei faniffesto—ar iechyd yn benodol—fel blaenoriaethau ar gyfer y ddau fis nesaf. Gwyddoch fod y Coleg Nyrsio Brenhinol wedi cyhoeddi arolwg yn dangos nad yw un o bob tri nyrs, sydd yn gweithio yng Nghymru, yn bwriadu parhau i nyrsio tan eu bod yn ymddeol. Mae morâl yn ddifrifol o isel ac mae 65 y cant—dau o bob tri nyrs—yn dweud nad ydynt yn derbyn y gefnogaeth angenrheidiol na’r adnoddau digonol i weithio’n effeithiol. Onid yw hyn yn dangos methiant eich Llywodraeth, bedair blynedd wedi sefydlu’r Cynulliad, i wneud unrhyw beth i gefnogi nyrsus yng Nghymru?

Of course we welcome any good news on jobs, but I note that the First Minister has not mentioned the thousands of jobs that have been lost during the last four years of his Government’s term. He must give that equal emphasis. He did not refer to the pledges he made in his manifesto—on health in particular—as priorities for the next two months. You will know that the Royal College of Nursing has published a survey showing that one in three nurses working in Wales do not intend to continue nursing until they retire. Morale is extremely low and 65 per cent—two thirds of nurses—say that they are not given the necessary support or resources to work effectively. Does this not show your Government’s failure, four years after the Assembly’s inception, to do anything to support nurses in Wales?

Rhodri Morgan Y Prif Weinidog siaradwyd yn Gymraeg t. 11

Rhodri Morgan The First Minister spoken in Welsh p. 11

Bu imi siarad am feincnodau yn gynharach wrth ateb cwestiwn Cynog Dafis. Os nad oes arolwg gan y Coleg Nyrsio Brenhinol ar gyfer y flwyddyn flaenorol, nid oes cymharydd. Ni wyddom a yw’r ffigur o 33 y cant o nyrsus, sydd yn dweud nad ydynt am barhau tan eu bod yn 60 neu 65 oed, yn gynnydd neu’n gwymp. Felly, nid oes gennym feincnod. Efallai fod nyrsus wedi bod yn dweud drwy’r amser nad ydynt yn fodlon i barhau i weithio nes eu bod yn 60 oed. Mae’r arolwg hwn yn torri ar draws yr arolwg yr ydym wedi ei wneud o staff y gwasanaeth iechyd gwladol, er bod hwnnw’n cynnwys pobl sydd yn gweithio mewn swyddfeydd, meddygon, a phob gyrfa arall yn y GIG, gan gynnwys nyrsus. O ran adnoddau annigonol, cafwyd canlyniadau negyddol mewn dau fesur yn unig, allan o rhyw ddwsin. Felly, nid wyf yn siŵr faint o bwyslais y dylem ei roi ar un ffigur mewn un arolwg, pan nad oes cyfres o arolygon gan y Coleg Nyrsio Brenhinol.

I mentioned benchmarks when answering Cynog Dafis earlier. If there is no Royal College of Nursing survey for the previous year, there is no comparator. We do not know whether the figure of 33 per cent of nurses, who say that they do not want to work until 60 or 65, is an increase or a decrease. Therefore, we do not have a benchmark. Perhaps nurses have always said that they do not wish to continue working until the age of 60. This survey cuts across the survey that we carried out of national health service staff, although that covered people who work in offices, doctors, and all the other NHS careers, including nurses. On insufficient resources, only two of some 12 measures produced negative results. Therefore, I am not sure how much emphasis we should place on one figure in one survey, when the Royal College of Nursing has not produced a series of surveys.

Ieuan Wyn Jones spoken in English p. 11

Ieuan Wyn Jones siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 11

That is a complacent reply because nurses must have approached you over the last four years, as they have every other Assembly Member, telling us exactly what the survey tells us: that people feel that they are not valued; that there are not enough resources, and that there are not enough qualified nursing staff on wards to ensure that duties are carried out properly. I have heard that constantly over the last four years; I am not sure why it should surprise you.

Ateb difater yw hwnnw gan fod nyrsys yn sicr o fod wedi cysylltu â chi dros y pedair blynedd diwethaf, fel y gwnaethant â phob Aelod arall o’r Cynulliad, gan ddweud wrthym ni yr union beth a ddywed yr arolwg wrthym: bod pobl yn teimlo nad oes parch iddynt; nad oes digon o adnoddau, ac nad oes digon o staff nyrsio cymwys mewn wardiau i sicrhau y caiff dyletswyddau eu cyflawni’n briodol. Clywais hynny’n gyson dros y pedair blynedd diwethaf; nid wyf yn sicr pam y dylai beri syndod i chi.

You have also indicated that you will appoint 6,000 additional nurses by 2010—an increase of 30 per cent in the next seven years. How is that a credible target when you are entering this election with 900 nursing vacancies, and without a strategy for retaining nurses once they enter the profession? Unless you have a credible strategy, your targets will fall by the wayside like all the other New Labour targets. They will be meaningless because they do not have any substance.

Yr ydych wedi nodi hefyd y byddwch yn penodi 6,000 o nyrsys ychwanegol erbyn 2010—cynnydd o 30 y cant yn y saith mlynedd nesaf. Sut y gall hynny fod yn darged credadwy a chithau’n dynesu at yr etholiad hwn gyda 900 o swyddi nyrsio gwag, a heb strategaeth ar gyfer cadw nyrsys wedi iddynt ddod i’r proffesiwn? Oni bai fod gennych strategaeth gredadwy, bydd eich targedau’n syrthio ar fin y ffordd fel holl dargedau eraill Llafur Newydd. Byddant yn ddiystyr am nad oes sylwedd iddynt.

Rhodri Morgan The First Minister spoken in English p. 12

Rhodri Morgan Y Prif Weinidog siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 12

If we are to increase the number of nurses, we need to understand what happens to nurse employment patterns as we move into full employment. Ten to 15 years ago, everyone assumed that a nurse, unless she had under school-age children, would stay in the national health service. We then realised that, as we approached full employment, nurses became choosier and decided that they did not want to work the usual shift patterns for decades until retirement. People who are in high-pressured professions such as nursing have that privilege during full employment. They can re-enter the profession and work part-time if they wish, or try another profession.

Os ydym i gael rhagor o nyrsys, rhaid inni ddeall beth sy’n digwydd i batrymau cyflogaeth nyrsys wrth inni symud tuag at gyflogaeth lawn. Ddeg neu 15 mlynedd yn ôl, yr oedd pawb yn cymryd y byddai nyrs, os nad oedd ganddi blant o dan oedran ysgol, yn aros yn y gwasanaeth iechyd gwladol. Gwnaethom sylweddoli wedyn fod nyrsys, wrth nesáu at gyflogaeth lawn, yn mynd yn fwy ffwdanus ac yn penderfynu nad oeddent am weithio’n ôl y patrymau stemiau arferol am ddegawdau tan eu hymddeoliad. Mae rhai mewn proffesiynau sydd o dan bwysau mawr fel nyrsio’n cael y fraint honno mewn cyfnod o gyflogaeth lawn. Gallant ddod yn ôl i’r proffesiwn a gweithio’n rhan-amser os dymunant, neu roi cynnig ar broffesiwn arall.

However, that does not work during a period of maximal unemployment such as that at the height of the Thatcher and John Major era. We must face that. That is why the Tories cut back on training nurses. They assumed that nurses would want to carry on working until they were 60 or 65 and would never give up their jobs. We know that that is not true. We are now having to supercharge the nurse-training programme to make good the cuts of 10 years ago, which every nurse will tell you about. The supply of newly-educated nurses was strangled when the Tories wrongly made the assumption that nurses would carry on working and would never change profession. We are making that good now with a large investment in training and educating nurses.

Fodd bynnag, ni thycia hynny yn ystod cyfnod o ddiweithdra uchel iawn fel a gafwyd yn anterth oes Thatcher a John Major. Rhaid inni wynebu hynny. Dyna pam y gwnaeth y Torïaid gwtogi ar hyfforddi nyrsys. Cymerasant y byddai nyrsys am ddal ymlaen i weithio nes oeddent yn 60 neu 65 oed ac na fyddent byth yn rhoi’r gorau i’w swyddi. Gwyddom nad felly y mae. Bellach yr ydym yn gorfod atgyfnerthu’r rhaglen hyfforddi nyrsys i wneud iawn am y toriadau 10 mlynedd yn ôl, y gwnaiff pob nyrs roi gwybod ichi amdanynt. Tagwyd y cyflenwad o nyrsys newydd eu hyfforddi pan gamdybiodd y Torïaid y byddai nyrsys yn parhau i weithio ac na fyddent byth yn newid proffesiwn. Yr ydym yn gwneud iawn am hynny’n awr drwy fuddsoddi’n helaeth mewn hyfforddi ac addysgu nyrsys.

Lorraine Barrett spoken in English p. 13

Lorraine Barrett siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 13

I was a nurse 30 years ago and I recognise some of the results of the Royal College of Nursing’s survey; the situation was not perfect then either. Did you hear Liz Hewett say earlier in the milling area that she was confident that, had this survey been carried out four years ago, it would have showed that the situation was worse then? She offered some hope that the situation was improving and was looking forward to working with the Assembly over the next four years to improve the situation further for the nursing profession.

Yr oeddwn i’n nyrs 30 mlynedd yn ôl ac mae rhai o ganlyniadau arolwg y Coleg Nyrsio Brenhinol yn taro tant; nid oedd y sefyllfa’n berffaith bryd hynny ychwaith. A glywsoch Liz Hewett yn dweud yn gynharach yn y neuadd ei bod yn ffyddiog, pe byddai’r arolwg hwn wedi’i gynnal bedair blynedd yn ôl, y byddai wedi dangos bod y sefyllfa’n waeth bryd hynny? Cynigiodd rywfaint o obaith bod y sefyllfa’n gwella ac edrychai ymlaen at weithio gyda’r Cynulliad dros y pedair blynedd nesaf i wella’r sefyllfa ymhellach ar gyfer nyrsys.

Rhodri Morgan The First Minister spoken in English p. 13

Rhodri Morgan Y Prif Weinidog siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 13

It is a paradox: I was not able to come to the milling area as I was preparing to answer these questions and, as a result, did not hear that useful information; you cannot be in two places at once. It is fascinating to think about what would have happened had a similar survey been carried out two, four and 10 years ago. This survey is only a snapshot, but I hope that it will be carried out regularly. The Assembly’s NHS staff survey, which covers all staff—not only nurses, doctors and workers in professions allied to medicine but office workers as well―provides a good picture of staff morale, except with regard to participation in decision-making and job requirements and rewards. That is out of some 12 or 14 other measures of staff morale in the NHS survey.

Mae’n baradocs: ni ellais ddod i’r neuadd gan fy mod yn paratoi i ateb y cwestiynau hyn ac, o ganlyniad, ni chlywais y wybodaeth ddefnyddiol honno; ni ellir bod mewn dau le ar unwaith. Diddorol iawn yw meddwl beth fyddai wedi digwydd pe byddai arolwg tebyg wedi’i gynnal ddwy, bedair a 10 mlynedd yn ôl. Dim ond cipolwg a geir yn yr arolwg hwn; ond gobeithiaf y caiff ei gynnal yn rheolaidd. Mae arolwg y Cynulliad o staff y GIG, sy’n cynnwys yr holl staff—nid yn unig nyrsys, meddygon a gweithwyr mewn proffesiynau sy’n gysylltiedig â meddygaeth ond gweithwyr mewn swyddfeydd hefyd—yn dangos bod morâl da ymysg y staff, heblaw mewn cysylltiad â chymryd rhan mewn penderfyniadau a gofynion swyddi a thâl. Mae hynny o blith rhyw 12 neu 14 o fesurau eraill o forâl y staff yn yr arolwg o’r GIG.

Nick Bourne The Leader of the Welsh Conservatives spoken in English p. 13

Nick Bourne Arweinydd Ceidwadwyr Cymru siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 13

I was reading Labour’s pre-manifesto document over the weekend—I love a good mystery and it is a mysterious document. I noticed that there is nothing concrete about agriculture in what is a bulky document: there are only 270 words on agriculture and rural affairs. Agriculture is not identified on any of the lists of priorities. That is despite the problem of late payments—[Interruption.]

Bûm yn darllen dogfen rhagfaniffesto Llafur dros y penwythnos—yr wyf yn hoff o stori ddirgelwch dda ac mae’n ddogfen llawn dirgelwch. Sylwais nad oes dim pendant am amaethyddiaeth a hynny mewn dogfen swmpus: dim ond 270 o eiriau a geir am amaethyddiaeth a materion gwledig. Ni nodir amaethyddiaeth ar unrhyw un o’r rhestrau blaenoriaethau. Mae hynny er gwaethaf problem taliadau hwyr—[Torri ar draws.]

Dafydd Elis-Thomas The Presiding Officer spoken in English p. 14

Dafydd Elis-Thomas Y Llywydd siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 14

Order. I want to hear the leader of the Welsh Conservatives’ supplementary question, even if nobody else does.

Trefn. Yr wyf fi am glywed cwestiwn atodol arweinydd Ceidwadwyr Cymru, hyd yn oed os nad oes neb arall.

Nick Bourne spoken in English p. 14

Nick Bourne siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 14

I am grateful; what a cultured Llywydd you are.

Yr wyf yn ddiolchgar; am Lywydd diwylliedig.

There is nothing in the manifesto on the aftermath of foot and mouth disease, on dealing with infected meat, or on small abattoirs. Is agriculture a priority? If so, why is it not listed as such? What will you do about the deep-seated problems that are facing agriculture, in the unlikely event of your winning the election?

Nid oes dim yn y maniffesto am ganlyniad clwy’r traed a’r genau, am ddelio â chig a heintiwyd, nac am ladd-dai bach. A yw amaethyddiaeth yn flaenoriaeth? Os ydyw, pam nad yw wedi’i rhestru felly? Beth a wnewch ynghylch y problemau sylfaenol sy’n wynebu amaethyddiaeth, os enillwch yr etholiad, er annhebyced hynny?

Rhodri Morgan The First Minister spoken in English p. 14

Rhodri Morgan Y Prif Weinidog siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 14

I notice that you do not claim that your party is likely to win the next election. When the manifesto is published, I am sure that it will cover every responsibility of the Assembly, including agriculture. I am sorry that you mis-spent your weekend in that way; you could have been doing much more enjoyable things. You are not responsible for the pre-manifesto document of our party, Nick. It is a matter for us. When we produce our manifesto, it will include exciting programmes for further progress in the Assembly’s areas of responsibilities right across the board.

Sylwaf nad ydych yn honni bod eich plaid chi’n debygol o ennill yr etholiad nesaf. Pan gyhoeddir y maniffesto, yr wyf yn siŵr y bydd yn ymdrin â holl gyfrifoldebau’r Cynulliad, gan gynnwys amaethyddiaeth. Mae’n ddrwg gennyf eich bod wedi afradu’ch penwythnos felly; gallasech wneud pethau llawer mwy difyr. Nid chi sy’n gyfrifol am ddogfen rhagfaniffesto ein plaid, Nick. Mae’n fater i ni. Pan gynhyrchwn ein maniffesto, bydd yn cynnwys rhaglenni cyffrous ar gyfer cynnydd pellach yn yr holl feysydd y mae’r Cynulliad yn gyfrifol amdanynt.

Ysbyty Cymunedol yn Nwyrain Caerdydd

Community Hospital in Cardiff East

Q7 Owen John Thomas spoken in English p. 14

C7 Owen John Thomas siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 14

What talks has the First Minister had recently regarding the opening of a community hospital to serve east Cardiff? (OAQ22784)

Pa drafodaethau y mae’r Prif Weinidog wedi’u cael yn ddiweddar ynghylch agor ysbyty cymunedol yn nwyrain Caerdydd? (OAQ22784)

Rhodri Morgan The First Minister spoken in English p. 15

Rhodri Morgan Y Prif Weinidog siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 15

None, because that is a matter for Bro Taf Health Authority, which is currently engaged in a consultation on the disposal of the Cardiff Royal Infirmary site. I do not mean the west wing site, which is a substantial investment. There are no discussions on its disposal. I hope that you will understand that I cannot say much more on this. If the community health council does not come to an agreement, the matter will come to the Assembly Government for determination.

Dim, gan fod hynny’n fater i Awdurdod Iechyd Bro Taf, sy’n ymgymryd ag ymgynghoriad ar hyn o bryd ar werthu safle Ysbyty Brenhinol Caerdydd. Nid safle’r adain orllewinol yr wyf yn ei olygu, gan fod swm sylweddol wedi’i fuddsoddi yno. Nid oes unrhyw drafodaethau ar werthu hwnnw. Gobeithiaf y byddwch yn deall na allaf ddweud fawr mwy am hyn. Os na ddaw’r cyngor iechyd cymunedol i gytundeb, daw’r mater i Lywodraeth y Cynulliad i’w benderfynu.

Owen John Thomas spoken in English p. 15

Owen John Thomas siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 15

I hope that, like me, you appreciate the excellent location of the royal infirmary at the junction of the city’s main axes and the building’s striking architectural presence. Do you not agree that the Assembly’s 880-year leasehold interest in the main part of the site for a peppercorn rent is a considerable asset? Will you therefore take immediate steps to put the building back into use for a combination of medical purposes, including a range of community hospital facilities serving eastern Cardiff?

Hyderaf eich bod chi, fel minnau, yn gwerthfawrogi lleoliad rhagorol yr ysbyty brenhinol ar gyffordd prif echelinau’r ddinas a phensaernïaeth drawiadol yr adeilad. Onid ydych yn cytuno bod daliadaeth prydles y Cynulliad am 880 mlynedd ar brif ran y safle am rent rhad yn ased sylweddol? Gan hynny, a wnewch gymryd camau ar unwaith fel y caiff yr adeilad ei ailddefnyddio i ddibenion meddygol amrywiol, gan gynnwys amrediad o gyfleusterau ysbyty cymunedol i wasanaethu dwyrain Caerdydd?

Rhodri Morgan The First Minister spoken in English p. 15

Rhodri Morgan Y Prif Weinidog siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 15

I understand that currently some 60,000 out-patient appointments are dealt with at Cardiff Royal Infirmary. That would probably put it among the top 10 out-patient appointment centres in Wales; part of your question falls on that account. Secondly, you are forgetting the west wing site, which, with approximately 110 beds, is probably among the top 30 hospitals in Wales: there are no proposals to dispose of that. Perhaps you should go back and redo your research, Owen John.

Yr wyf yn deall bod Ysbyty Brenhinol Caerdydd yn delio â thua 60,000 o apwyntiadau cleifion allanol ar hyn o bryd. Golyga hynny ei fod, yn ôl pob tebyg, yn un o’r 10 canolfan bwysicaf ar gyfer apwyntiadau cleifion allanol yng Nghymru; mae rhan o’ch cwestiwn yn methu oherwydd hynny. Yn ail, yr ydych yn anghofio safle’r adain orllewinol, sy’n un o’r 30 ysbyty pennaf yng Nghymru, yn ôl pob tebyg, â’i 110 o welyau; nid oes bwriad i werthu hwnnw. Efallai y dylech fynd yn ôl ac ail-wneud eich ymchwil, Owen John.

Morâl Staff y GIG yng Nghymru

Staff Morale in the NHS in Wales

Q8 Nick Bourne spoken in English p. 15

C8 Nick Bourne siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 15

Will the First Minister make a statement on staff morale within the NHS in Wales? (OAQ22774)

A wnaiff y Prif Weinidog ddatganiad ar forâl y staff o fewn y GIG yng Nghymru? (OAQ22774)

Rhodri Morgan The First Minister spoken in English p. 15

Rhodri Morgan Y Prif Weinidog siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 15

Yes. There was a survey of this issue. I emphasise that this was of staff morale, not merely doctor or nurse morale. On a wide range of measures—I think that there are 14—the outcomes are positive in general. Some aspects, for example, organisational learning, open communication, relationships with managers, discrimination and prejudice, scored very high. There was a poor and negative result on participation in decision-making and job requirements and rewards. However, overall, any statistician would have to agree that the survey is very positive.

Gwnaf. Bu arolwg ar y mater hwn. Pwysleisiaf ei fod yn ymwneud â morâl y staff, nid morâl y meddygon a’r nyrsys yn unig. Ar amrediad eang o fesurau—credaf fod 14—mae’r canlyniadau’n rhai cadarnhaol at ei gilydd. Ar rai agweddau, er enghraifft, dysgu am drefniadaeth, cyfathrebu agored, y berthynas â rheolwyr, gwahaniaethu a rhagfarn, yr oedd y sgôr yn uchel iawn. Yr oedd canlyniad gwael a negyddol ar gymryd rhan mewn penderfyniadau a gofynion swyddi a thâl. Er hynny, at ei gilydd, byddai’n rhaid i unrhyw ystadegydd gytuno bod yr arolwg yn gadarnhaol iawn.

Nick Bourne spoken in English p. 16

Nick Bourne siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 16

I understand that the First Minister could not attend the launch of the value nursing campaign in the milling area earlier. I hope that he will take it from me that it was an interesting launch. I spoke to many nurses and listened to Liz Hewett. It is clear that there are massive issues about the retention of nurses, as well as their recruitment. We currently have 4,000 qualified nurses in Wales who are not practising and 1,000 vacancies, to use rough figures. What is being done to attract those people back into nursing so that we can take advantage of their skills without the need to continually face the problem of chasing nurses, with the knock-on effect that has on waiting lists? What is the First Minister doing about this important issue?

Deallaf nad oedd y Prif Weinidog yn gallu bod yn bresennol yn lansiad yr ymgyrch gwerthfawrogi nyrsio yn y neuadd yn gynharach. Gobeithiaf y bydd yn derbyn fy ngair i iddo fod yn gyfarfod lansio diddorol. Siaredais â llawer o nyrsys a gwrando ar Liz Hewett. Mae’n amlwg bod materion mawr yn codi ynghylch cadw nyrsys, yn ogystal â’u recriwtio. Ar hyn o bryd, mae gennym 4,000 o nyrsys cymwys yng Nghymru nad ydynt yn ymarfer a 1,000 o swyddi gwag, gan ddefnyddio ffigurau bras. Beth a wneir i ddenu’r bobl hynny’n ôl i nyrsio fel y gallwn fanteisio ar eu sgiliau heb orfod wynebu’r broblem o chwilio am nyrsys yn barhaus, gyda’r effaith gynyddol a gaiff hynny ar restrau aros? Beth y mae’r Prif Weinidog yn ei wneud ynghylch y mater pwysig hwn?

Rhodri Morgan The First Minister spoken in English p. 16

Rhodri Morgan Y Prif Weinidog siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 16

I would agree on the basis of my last discussion of nurse morale when I visited Morriston hospital. The point was made that in an overcrowded accident and emergency environment, as at Morriston—because the new accident and emergency department is under construction at a cost of £9 million—nurses find it tough. They are doing too much medical nursing when they want to be doing what they are trained in, namely accident and emergency nursing. If they had wanted to do medical nursing they would have trained in it. Sometimes they go to practice nursing, which they think is less stressful. It is a relatively new occupation and an alternative that has arisen in the last five years or so. It is a wonderful innovation in taking stress and strain off general practitioners and providing a lot of additional services not previously available in the community. Some decide that that is the best way forward for them. You mentioned the issue of how we access the nurses available in the community who choose not to nurse. Some are unable to nurse because they may be looking after children under school age or have caring responsibilities for elderly relatives. However, the back-to-nursing initiative, which we are pursuing vigorously, is intended to attract those nurses back to the profession. It is not as simple as saying, ‘Right you are qualified; you are on the Royal College of Nursing register; come back next week.’ Many of those nurses would say that they left nursing some 10 to 15 years ago and that it is now a different ball game. We commit to retraining them and getting them up to standard so that they are confident and have the skills to be able to enter a hospital environment today, even though they may think that they cannot do it because they left nursing some 10 years ago. We are actively engaged in helping nurses to have the confidence to return to nursing.

Cytunwn ar sail y drafodaeth ddiwethaf a gefais ar y morâl ymysg nyrsys pan ymwelais ag ysbyty Treforys. Dywedwyd bod nyrsys yn ei chael yn anodd gweithio mewn amgylchedd damweiniau ac achosion brys gorlawn, fel yr un yn Nhreforys—oherwydd bod yr adran ddamweiniau ac achosion brys yn cael ei hadeiladu ar hyn o bryd ar gost o £9 miliwn. Gwnânt ormod o nyrsio meddygol a hwythau am wneud yr hyn y’u hyfforddwyd i’w wneud, sef nyrsio ar gyfer damweiniau ac achosion brys. Pe byddent wedi dymuno gwneud nyrsio meddygol, byddent wedi hyfforddi i wneud hynny. Weithiau ânt i nyrsio mewn practis, sy’n peri llai o straen, yn eu barn hwy. Mae’n alwedigaeth gymharol newydd ac yn ddewis sydd wedi codi yn y pum mlynedd diwethaf, fwy neu lai. Mae’n fenter wych o ran lleddfu’r pwysau ar ymarferwyr cyffredinol a darparu llawer o wasanaethau ychwanegol nad oeddent ar gael yn y gymuned cyn hynny. Mae rhai’n penderfynu mai honno yw’r ffordd orau ymlaen iddynt hwy. Gwnaethoch sôn am fater y modd yr ydym yn cyrraedd y nyrsys sydd ar gael yn y gymuned sy’n dewis peidio â nyrsio. Mae rhai na allant nyrsio am eu bod yn gofalu am blant o dan oedran ysgol neu am fod ganddynt gyfrifoldeb i ofalu am berthnasau oedrannus. Fodd bynnag, amcan y fenter dychwelyd i nyrsio, a hyrwyddwn yn egnïol, yw denu’r nyrsys hynny’n ôl i’r proffesiwn. Nid yw mor syml â dweud, ‘Iawn, yr ydych wedi ymgymhwyso; yr ydych ar gofrestr y Coleg Nyrsio Brenhinol; dewch yn ôl yr wythnos nesaf.’ Dywedai llawer o’r nyrsys hynny eu bod wedi gadael nyrsio ryw 10 i 15 mlynedd ynghynt a’i fod yn fyd cwbl wahanol bellach. Yr ydym yn ymrwymo i’w hailhyfforddi a’u codi i’r safon fel eu bod yn hyderus ac yn meddu ar y sgiliau priodol fel y gallant fynd i fyd yr ysbyty heddiw, er y gallent gredu na allant wneud hynny am eu bod wedi gadael nyrsio tua 10 mlynedd yn ôl. Yr ydym yn cymryd camau i helpu nyrsys i fagu’r hyder i ailddechrau nyrsio.

Nick Bourne spoken in English p. 17

Nick Bourne siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 17

I heard what the First Minister said but it is a more complex issue than he makes out. It is also a matter of retaining people who are going through the system now. Many student nurses are saying that they are completely disenchanted, even though nursing was the job that they wanted to do. It is not just a matter of pay; the conditions are such that one student said to me that she was seriously thinking of working at Tesco. I will give you examples of issues that need addressing: the lack of provision for maternity leave; the lack of affordable childcare provision; the absence of help for study leave, and the cost of car parking. Pay is also an issue. One nurse said to me, ‘I earn £75 per day. Childcare provision costs me £45 per day and I have to pay to park my car.’ We must address those issues. Can we have your assurance, First Minister, that you, the Minister for Health and Social Services and others are addressing these issues, not just so that we can tempt nurses back to this very valuable job, but also so that we can retain those already in the system?

Clywais yr hyn a ddywedodd y Prif Weinidog ond mae’n fater mwy cymhleth nag y mae ef yn honni. Mae hefyd yn fater o gadw’r rhai sy’n mynd drwy’r system yn awr. Mae llawer o nyrsys dan hyfforddiant yn dweud eu bod wedi’u llwyr ddadrithio, er mai nyrsio oedd y gwaith yr oeddent am ei wneud. Nid mater o dâl yn unig ydyw; mae’r amodau’n gyfryw fel bod un fyfyrwraig wedi dweud wrthyf ei bod yn meddwl o ddifrif ynghylch mynd i weithio i Tesco. Rhoddaf enghreifftiau ichi o faterion y mae angen ymdrin â hwy: diffyg darpariaeth ar gyfer seibiant mamolaeth; diffyg darpariaeth gofal plant fforddiadwy; diffyg cymorth ar gyfer seibiant i astudio, a chost parcio ceir. Mae tâl yn fater pwysig hefyd. Dywedodd un nyrs wrthyf, ‘Yr wyf yn ennill £75 y dydd. Mae’r ddarpariaeth gofal plant yn costio £45 y diwrnod imi a rhaid imi dalu i gael parcio fy nghar.’ Rhaid inni ymdrin â’r materion hynny. A allwn gael sicrwydd gennych, Brif Weinidog, eich bod chi, y Gweinidog dros Iechyd a Gwasanaethau Cymdeithasol ac eraill yn rhoi sylw i’r materion hyn, nid yn unig fel y gallwn demtio nyrsys yn ôl i’r swyddi gwerthfawr hyn, ond hefyd fel y gallwn gadw’r rhai sydd yn y system eisoes?

Rhodri Morgan The First Minister spoken in English p. 18

Rhodri Morgan Y Prif Weinidog siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 18

There is agreement between us on that. I have heard before the argument that agency nurses have their car parking paid for, whereas regular nurses must pay car-park fees. Childcare is a major problem for returning nurses with under school-age children and during school holidays. There is some obligation on the NHS, as a major employer, to seek more flexibility with regard to school holidays. Childcare costs can be enormous and take more than half of post-tax pay.

Mae cytundeb rhyngom ar hynny. Yr wyf wedi clywed y ddadl cyn hyn fod cost parcio ceir nyrsys asiantaeth yn cael ei thalu drostynt, tra bo nyrsys arferol yn gorfod talu ffioedd am barcio eu ceir. Mae gofal plant yn broblem fawr i nyrsys sy’n dychwelyd sydd â phlant dan oedran ysgol ac yn ystod gwyliau ysgol. Mae rhywfaint o orfodaeth ar y GIG, fel cyflogwr mawr, i geisio mwy o hyblygrwydd mewn cysylltiad â gwyliau ysgol. Gall costau gofal plant fod yn anferth a gallant fynd â mwy na hanner cyflog ar ôl talu treth.

With regard to nurse education, we can do better than we are doing now in terms of ensuring that the job is as attractive two-thirds of the way through the nursing degree as it is on the first day of the course.

Ynghylch addysg nyrsys, gallwn wneud yn well nag yr ydym yn ei wneud ar hyn o bryd o ran sicrhau bod y swydd mor ddeniadol ddeuparth o’r ffordd drwy’r radd nyrsio ag y mae ar ddiwrnod cyntaf y cwrs.

Kirsty Williams spoken in English p. 18

Kirsty Williams siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 18

Do you agree that implementing that ‘Agenda for Change’ swiftly and competently will have a huge effect on staff morale? Can you confirm that you have the systems and the financial resources in place to ensure that that happens?

A ydych yn cytuno y ceir effaith aruthrol ar forâl staff drwy roi ‘Agenda ar gyfer Newid’ ar waith yn gyflym ac yn gymwys? A allwch gadarnhau bod y systemau a’r adnoddau ariannol wedi’u rhoi ar waith i sicrhau hynny?

Rhodri Morgan The First Minister spoken in English p. 18

Rhodri Morgan Y Prif Weinidog siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 18

Yes. I, or Jane Hutt, will write to you in detail about the implementation and costings of ‘Agenda for Change’.

Gallaf. Gwnaf i, neu Jane Hutt, ysgrifennu atoch i roi manylion i chi am weithredu ‘Agenda ar gyfer Newid’ a’r prisiadau ar ei chyfer.

Ieuan Wyn Jones spoken in English p. 18

Ieuan Wyn Jones siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 18

Nurses have genuine concerns about their future in the profession. In your responses to Nick Bourne and to me, you blame everyone else. It was the Tories’ fault for failing to anticipate changing working patterns; it is because there is full employment and nurses have other opportunities. You must accept that there are genuine concerns about the Government’s failure to deliver on health. An acknowledgement from you that you have not performed well in the last four years would go some way towards addressing some of those concerns. Do you now accept that, during that time, the situation has got worse rather than better? What gives you confidence that, under four more years of your leadership, matters will improve?

Mae gan nyrsys bryderon dilys ynghylch eu dyfodol yn y proffesiwn. Yn eich ymatebion i Nick Bourne ac i mi, yr ydych yn rhoi’r bai ar bawb arall. Bai’r Torïaid ydoedd am fethu â rhagweld y newid mewn patrymau gweithio; mae oherwydd bo cyflogaeth lawn ac mae cyfleoedd eraill i nyrsys. Rhaid ichi dderbyn bod pryderon dilys ynghylch methiant y Llywodraeth i fynd â’r maen i’r wal ar iechyd. Pe byddech yn cydnabod nad ydych wedi perfformio’n dda yn y pedair blynedd diwethaf, byddai hynny’n fodd i ymateb yn rhannol i rai o’r pryderon hynny. A ydych yn derbyn bod y sefyllfa wedi gwaethygu, yn ystod y cyfnod hwnnw, yn hytrach na gwella? Pa le sydd gennych i hyderu y bydd materion yn gwella, dros bedair blynedd arall o dan eich arweiniad chi?

Rhodri Morgan The First Minister spoken in English p. 18

Rhodri Morgan Y Prif Weinidog siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 18

You are being utterly pathetic now. You say that it is getting worse rather than better. How do you know that? Clearly you do not; if you did, you would have quoted some figures to back up your absurd claim. You would have to have had a survey conducted four or six years ago to know that. I have bemoaned the fact that there is no such survey. Therefore, how can you make that absurd claim? You really must grow up and stop chucking about absurd allegations that are unsupported by evidence. Yours is an evidence-free and policy-free zone. It is not worth listening to you as leader of the opposition when trying to take part in a constructive debate. If we knew that four years ago only 10 per cent of nurses were thinking of retiring before they reach 60, and now that figure is 33 per cent, then we could say that the situation getting worse. You do not have any basis for saying that; but because you are leader of the opposition and there is an election coming up, you have to say it.

Yr oedd hynny’n gwbl druenus. Dywedwch ei bod yn mynd yn waeth yn hytrach na gwell. Sut y gwyddoch hynny? Mae’n amlwg nad ydych; pe gwyddech, byddech wedi dyfynnu rhai ffigurau i ategu’ch honiad afresymol. Buasai’n rhaid cynnal arolwg bedair neu chwe blynedd yn ôl i gael gwybod hynny. Yr wyf wedi cwyno o achos y ffaith nad oes arolwg o’r fath. Felly, sut y gallwch wneud honiad afresymol o’r fath? Rhaid ichi dyfu i fyny a pheidio â lluchio cyhuddiadau hurt heb dystiolaeth i’w hategu. Nid oes na thystiolaeth na pholisi ar eich cyfyl. Nid yw’n werth gwrando arnoch fel arweinydd yr wrthblaid wrth geisio cymryd rhan mewn dadl adeiladol. Pe gwyddem bedair blynedd yn ôl mai dim ond 10 y cant o nyrsys a oedd yn ystyried ymddeol cyn cyrraedd 60 oed, a bod y ffigur hwnnw bellach yn 33 y cant, wedyn y gallem ddweud bod y sefyllfa’n gwaethygu. Nid oes gennych unrhyw sail dros ddweud hynny; ond am mai chi yw arweinydd yr wrthblaid ac am fod etholiad yn nesáu, rhaid ichi ddweud hynny.

You say that I should not blame the Tories for the cuts in nurse training 10 years ago. However, nurses tell me that that is the cause of today’s staffing difficulties. Do you approve of the cuts in training that the Tories made 10 years ago? If, God forbid, you ever came to power, would you introduce another cut in training, seeing as you seem to think that the Tories made the right decision, and that I am wrong to criticise them for it? Grow up, Ieuan. Look seriously at the problems of the health service. Where we make investments in training and recruiting more nurses, you should commend us for it. I am sure that the people of Wales look forward to the additional training places producing additional nurses for the health service during the next four years.

Dywedwch na ddylwn roi’r bai ar y Torïaid am gwtogi ar hyfforddiant nyrsys 10 mlynedd yn ôl. Er hynny, dywed nyrsys wrthyf mai dyna achos y trafferthion staffio a geir heddiw. A ydych yn cymeradwyo’r cwtogi ar hyfforddiant gan y Torïaid 10 mlynedd yn ôl? Pe deuech byth i rym, a Duw a’n gwaredo rhag hynny, a fyddech yn cwtogi ar hyfforddiant eto, gan ei bod yn ymddangos eich bod yn credu bod y Torïaid wedi gwneud y penderfyniad iawn, ac fy mod i ar fai am eu beirniadu am hynny’n awr? Tyfwch i fyny, Ieuan. Edrychwch ar broblemau’r gwasanaeth iechyd o ddifrif. Lle’r ydym yn buddsoddi mewn hyfforddiant ac mewn recriwtio rhagor o nyrsys, dylech ein canmol am hynny. Yr wyf yn sicr bod pobl Cymru’n edrych ymlaen at y lleoedd hyfforddi ychwanegol a fydd yn rhoi rhagor o nyrsys ar gyfer y gwasanaeth iechyd yn ystod y pedair blynedd nesaf.

Cymoedd De Cymru (Polisïau Iechyd)

South Wales Valleys (Health Policies)

Q9 Geraint Davies spoken in English p. 19

C9 Geraint Davies siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 19

Will the First Minister make a statement on how his Government’s health policies have impacted on the south Wales Valleys? (OAQ22773)

A wnaiff y Prif Weinidog ddatganiad ar effaith polisïau iechyd ei Lywodraeth ar Gymoedd y De? (OAQ22773)

Rhodri Morgan The First Minister spoken in English p. 19

Rhodri Morgan Y Prif Weinidog siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 19

In the south Wales Valleys we are funding hospital developments such as the second Rhondda hospital in Llwynypia and innovative schemes to improve access to services such as physiotherapy, and arthroplasty for muscularskeletal conditions, ensuring that people are treated quicker and are seen by the most appropriate person to treat their condition.

Yng Nghymoedd y De yr ydym yn cyllido datblygiadau ysbyty fel yr ail ysbyty’r Rhondda yn Llwynypia a chynlluniau arloesol i wella’r mynediad i wasanaethau fel ffisiotherapi, ac arthroplasti ar gyfer anhwylderau cyhyrol-ysgerbydol, gan sicrhau bod pobl yn cael eu trin yn gynt ac yn cael eu gweld gan yr un mwyaf priodol i drin eu hanhwylder.

Geraint Davies spoken in English p. 20

Geraint Davies siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 20

Do you agree that many causes of ill health lie outside the health portfolio? Factors such as economic deprivation, the environment, poor housing and education all contribute towards ill health, nowhere more so than in the Valleys, where health statistics are among the worst in western Europe. Do you agree that the Valleys require a strategy to tackle these factors in a co-ordinated way to address the root causes of ill health?

A ydych yn cytuno bod llawer o achosion afiechyd y tu allan i bortffolio iechyd? Mae ffactorau megis amddifadedd economaidd, yr amgylchedd, tai ac addysg wael i gyd yn cyfrannu at afiechyd, a hynny yn y Cymoedd yn anad unman, lle y mae’r ystadegau iechyd ymysg y gwaethaf yng ngorllewin Ewrop. A ydych yn cytuno bod angen strategaeth ar gyfer y Cymoedd i ymdrin â’r ffactorau hyn yn gydlynol er mwyn rhoi sylw i achosion sylfaenol afiechyd?

Rhodri Morgan The First Minister spoken in English p. 20

Rhodri Morgan Y Prif Weinidog siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 20

You will be glad that the Rhondda Cynon Taf local health group has been chosen to pilot in Wales the development of an integrated healthcare strategy for primary care premises, to undertake a baseline assessment of the current condition and performance of GP premises in Rhondda Cynon Taf and to develop an estate strategy to support the future development of services. That, along with the second Rhondda community hospital and the £150 million investment planned by the North Glamorgan NHS Trust, will go a long way to putting right the problems that you rightly describe.

Byddwch yn falch bod grŵp iechyd lleol Rhondda Cynon Taf wedi’i ddewis i ragbrofi yng Nghymru’r gwaith o ddatblygu strategaeth gofal iechyd integredig ar gyfer adeiladau gofal sylfaenol, i wneud asesiad llinell sylfaen o gyflwr a pherfformiad presennol adeiladau meddygon teulu yn Rhondda Cynon Taf ac i ddatblygu strategaeth ystâd i hybu datblygiad gwasanaethau yn y dyfodol. Bydd hynny, ynghyd â’r ail ysbyty cymunedol yn y Rhondda a’r buddsoddiad arfaethedig o £150 miliwn gan Ymddiriedolaeth GIG Gogledd Morgannwg, yn cyfrannu’n helaeth at ddatrys y problemau yr ydych yn eu disgrifio’n briodol.

Jonathan Morgan spoken in English p. 20

Jonathan Morgan siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 20

Can you outline whether your Government will meet its manifesto commitments on waiting lists before the next election?

A allwch amlinellu a fydd eich Llywodraeth yn cyflawni ei hymrwymiadau yn ei maniffesto ar restrau aros cyn yr etholiad nesaf?

Rhodri Morgan The First Minister spoken in English p. 20

Rhodri Morgan Y Prif Weinidog siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 20

We have met many of our waiting list commitments. I am not sure whether we will meet them all, but a high proportion of them will be met. The targeting of those waiting list commitments by the NHS and the Minister for Health and Social Services has been successful.

Yr ydym wedi cyflawni llawer o’n hymrwymiadau ar restrau aros. Nid wyf yn sicr a fyddwn yn eu cyflawni i gyd, ond cyflawnir cyfran helaeth ohonynt. Bu’r targedu ar yr ymrwymiadau hynny ar restrau aros gan y GIG a’r Gweinidog dros Iechyd a Gwasanaethau Cymdeithasol yn llwyddiannus.

Polisïau Economaidd a Chymdeithasol y Llywodraeth

The Government’s Economic and Social Policies

C10 Elin Jones siaradwyd yn Gymraeg t. 21

Q10 Elin Jones spoken in Welsh p. 21

A wnaiff y Prif Weinidog ddatganiad ar y camau y mae Llywodraeth y Cynulliad wedi’u cymryd i sicrhau bod Cymru gyfan yn elwa o’i pholisïau economaidd a chymdeithasol? (OAQ22770)

Will the First Minister make a statement on the measures that the Assembly Government has taken to ensure that its economic and social policies benefit all of Wales? (OAQ22770)

Rhodri Morgan Y Prif Weinidog siaradwyd yn Gymraeg t. 21

Rhodri Morgan The First Minister spoken in Welsh p. 21

Amcan strategaeth datblygu economaidd Llywodraeth Cynulliad Cymru, ‘Cymru’n Ennill’, yw lledaenu ffyniant economaidd ledled Cymru. O ran ein polisïau cymdeithasol, mae’r mesurau ar gyfer mynd i’r afael â thlodi ac anfantais gymdeithasol, cefnogi pobl ddiamddiffyn, gwella tai a gwasanaethau gofal iechyd, cefnogi plant a phobl ifanc ac ymdrin ag anghenion pobl hŷn, wedi eu cynllunio i sicrhau bod pawb yng Nghymru yn elwa ohonynt.

The aim of the Welsh Assembly Government’s national economic development strategy, ‘A Winning Wales’, is to increase prosperity across the whole of Wales. In terms of our social policies, the measures to tackle poverty and social disadvantage, to support vulnerable people, to improve housing and healthcare services, to support children and young people and deal with the needs of older people, have been designed to benefit all the people of Wales.

Elin Jones siaradwyd yn Gymraeg t. 21

Elin Jones spoken in Welsh p. 21

Yn eich bwrlwm ychydig funudau yn ôl, dywedasoch eich bod eisiau tystiolaeth a pholisïau. Yn gyntaf, ar dystiolaeth, mae gan eich Llywodraeth darged i greu 34,000 o swyddi yn y Gorllewin a’r Cymoedd cyn diwedd y mis hwn. Mae llythyr a anfonwyd ataf rai wythnosau yn ôl oddi wrth y Gweinidog dros Ddatblygu Economaidd yn cydnabod mai dim ond 10,000 o’r swyddi hyn a fydd wedi eu creu. Dyna dystiolaeth o greu 10,000 o swyddi yn lle’r targed gwreiddiol o 34,000.

In your excitement a few minutes earlier you said that you wanted evidence and policies. First, on evidence, your Government has a target to create 34,000 jobs in west Wales and the Valleys before the end of this month. A letter sent to me a few weeks ago by the Minister for Economic Development acknowledges that only 10,000 of these posts will have been created. That is evidence of creating 10,000 jobs when the original target was 34,000.

O ran polisi, a dderbyniwch felly, ar ôl pedair blynedd, y byddai gosod targedau swyddi rhanbarthol clir wedi sicrhau creu swyddi newydd ar hyd a lled Cymru a bod eich strategaeth, neu—yn fwy perthnasol—ddiffyg strategaeth, wedi methu?

In terms of policy, do you therefore accept that, after four years, the setting of clear regional job targets would have ensured the creation of jobs throughout Wales and that your strategy, or—more to the point—the lack of a strategy, has failed?

Rhodri Morgan Y Prif Weinidog siaradwyd yn Gymraeg t. 21

Rhodri Morgan The First Minister spoken in Welsh p. 21

Dim o gwbl. Mae’n dangos bod problem fawr gydag ystadegau, yn enwedig pan nad ydynt yn cael eu cyflwyno ar raddfa Cymru gyfan. Yr ydym yn weddol sicr y crewyd 61,000 o swyddi ychwanegol rhwng chwarter olaf 2001 hyd at chwarter olaf 2002. Fodd bynnag, ni allwch ddibynnu ar ffigurau a dorrwyd i lawr i gyfeirio at rannau o Gymru yn hytrach na Chymru gyfan. Felly, os ydych yn torri’r ffigurau i lawr yn fwy byth i’r lefelau y mae Plaid Cymru a Phil Williams yn ein hannog i fabwysiadu, ac yn cael rhwng chwech ac wyth o dargedau gwahanol, ceir anhawster i ddod o hyd i ystadegau y gallwn ddibynnu arnynt.

Not at all. It shows that there is a huge problem with statistics, particularly when they are not presented on an all-Wales basis. We are fairly certain that an additional 61,000 jobs were created between the final quarter of 2001 and the final quarter of 2002. However, you cannot depend on figures that have been broken down to apply to parts of Wales rather than the whole of Wales. Therefore, if you break them down even more to the levels that Plaid Cymru and Phil Williams are encouraging us to adopt, and set between six and eight different targets, it is difficult to get statistics that we can depend on.

Dylech ganolbwyntio ar y ffaith bod ein llwyddiant, o’i gymharu â Phrydain, yn dangos bod Cymru ar y blaen o ran creu swyddi gan ein bod wedi creu 61,000 o swyddi ychwanegol. Mae addewid o fwy o swyddi ychwanegol ar gyfer y flwyddyn i ddod yn sgîl y datblygiadau yr wyf eisoes wedi eu hamlinellu yn 118UK, Zurich Insurance, FIS cyf, yr Asiantaeth Atgyweirio Awyrennau Amddiffyn ac yn y blaen. Mae hynny’n dangos ein bod yn parhau i ddarparu mwy o swyddi nag unrhyw ardal arall o’r Deyrnas Unedig.

You should concentrate on the fact that, compared to Britain, our success shows that Wales is ahead in terms of job creation, given that we have created 61,000 additional posts. There is the promise of further additional jobs in the coming year following the developments that I have already outlined at 118UK, Zurich Insurance, FIS Ltd, the Defence Aviation Repair Agency and so on. That shows that we continue to deliver more jobs than any other part of the UK.

Peter Law spoken in English p. 22

Peter Law siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 22

Will you endorse the good work of Andrew Davies in intervening with the Christie Tyler company that, sadly, recently announced the possible closure of the Wyvern upholstery company after 25 years at Ebbw Vale, with a possible loss of 200 jobs? Will you endorse and support making as many resources available to the company as possible, even if it is a slimmed-down arrangement, to try to keep that company in my community, bearing in mind that we have the highest unemployment and, only six months ago, suffered the loss of the Ebbw Vale steelworks?

A wnewch gymeradwyo’r gwaith da a wnaeth Andrew Davies wrth ymyrryd yn achos cwmni Christie Tyler sydd wedi cyhoeddi’n ddiweddar, gwaetha’r modd, y posibilrwydd o gau cwmni clustogwaith Wyvern ar ôl 25 mlynedd yng Nglynebwy, gyda’r posibilrwydd o golli 200 o swyddi? A wnewch gymeradwyo a chefnogi darparu cymaint o adnoddau ag y bo modd i’r cwmni, hyd yn oed os bydd ar ffurf lai, i geisio cadw’r cwmni hwnnw yn fy nghymuned, gan gofio mai gennym ni y mae’r diweithdra uchaf a’n bod, dim ond chwe mis yn ôl, wedi dioddef o gau gwaith dur Glynebwy?

Rhodri Morgan The First Minister spoken in English p. 22

Rhodri Morgan Y Prif Weinidog siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 22

Indeed, that is the right way forward. I am only aware of what I have read in the press about the possible closure of two of Christie Tyler’s empire of some dozen factories in Wales. The company blamed it on the increasing popularity of leather-upholstered against fabric-upholstered settees. Leather upholstery is easier to get cut and sewn abroad, given our wage costs, than the traditional Christie Tyler specialities of fabric-upholstered three-piece suites and so on. A factory in Cardiff is also under the shadow of that market change. However, we will encourage the company to consider what it can do to come forward with a slimmed-down alternative to the present level of employment at Wyvern Furniture Ltd if there is no other alternative to closure.

Yn wir, dyna’r ffordd ymlaen. Nid wyf ond yn gwybod o’r hyn a ddarllenais yn y wasg am y posibilrwydd o gau dwy o’r dwsin, fwy neu lai, o ffatrïoedd sydd yn rhan o fusnes mawr Christie Tyler yng Nghymru. Yr oedd y cwmni’n rhoi’r bai ar y cynnydd ym mhoblogrwydd setïau â gorchudd lledr yn hytrach na defnydd. Mae’n haws cael gorchuddion lledr wedi’u torri a’u gwnïo dramor, o ystyried ein costau cyflog, na’r hyn y mae Christie Tyler yn arbenigo ynddo’n draddodiadol, sef setïau tridarn â gorchuddion defnydd ac yn y blaen. Mae ffatri yng Nghaerdydd sydd dan gysgod y newid hwnnw yn y farchnad. Fodd bynnag, gwnawn annog y cwmni i ystyried a all gyflwyno dewis arall gyda llai o swyddi yn Wyvern Furniture Cyf. os nad oes dewis arall yn lle cau.

Canllawiau i Weinidogion ar Ateb Cwestiynau

Guidance for Ministers on Answering Questions

Q11 David Davies spoken in English p. 23

C11 David Davies siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 23

What guidance does the First Minister offer to his Cabinet Ministers on answering questions about National Assembly sponsored bodies, which are funded by their departments? (OAQ22782)

Pa ganllawiau y mae’r Prif Weinidog yn eu cynnig i’w Weinidogion yn y Cabinet ar gyfer ateb cwestiynau am gyrff a noddir gan y Cynulliad Cenedlaethol sy’n cael eu hariannu gan eu hadrannau hwy? (OAQ22782)

Rhodri Morgan The First Minister spoken in English p. 23

Rhodri Morgan Y Prif Weinidog siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 23

Under Section 56.7 of the Government of Wales Act 1998, and the Assembly’s guidance on answering questions, each Minister answers questions on matters within his or her responsibilities. This includes questions on ASPBs within their portfolio.

O dan Adran 56.7 Deddf Llywodraeth Cymru 1998, a chanllawiau’r Cynulliad ar ateb cwestiynau, mae pob Gweinidog yn ateb cwestiynau ar faterion sydd o fewn cwmpas ei gyfrifoldeb. Mae hynny’n cynnwys cwestiynau am gyrff cyhoeddus a noddir gan y Cynulliad sydd yn ei bortffolio.

David Davies spoken in English p. 23

David Davies siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 23

On 12 February, I tabled a number of questions on community consortia for education and training conferences after delegates complained to me that they had been expected to spend their days sitting around drinking coffee, eating biscuits and playing with Lego bricks instead of getting on with their jobs. I tabled a series of questions to the Minister for Education and Lifelong Learning about the costs, the frequency and the duration of these conferences and I am still waiting for answers. Is it not a matter of public interest that headteachers and senior business people spend their time playing with Lego at the taxpayers’ expense? Should not these questions be answered?

Ar 12 Chwefror, cyflwynais nifer o gwestiynau ar gynadleddau consortia cymunedol ar gyfer addysg a hyfforddiant wedi i gynrychiolwyr gwyno wrthyf fod disgwyl iddynt dreulio eu dyddiau’n eisteddian yn yfed coffi, bwyta bisgedi a chwarae gyda brics Lego yn lle mynd ymlaen â’u gwaith. Cyflwynais gyfres o gwestiynau i’r Gweinidog dros Addysg a Dysgu Gydol Oes am gostau, amlder a hyd y cynadleddau hyn ac yr wyf yn dal i ddisgwyl am atebion. Onid yw’n fater o ddiddordeb i’r cyhoedd fod penaethiaid ysgol a phobl busnes uwch yn treulio eu hamser yn chwarae â Lego ar draul y trethdalwyr? Oni ddylid ateb y cwestiynau hyn?

Rhodri Morgan The First Minister spoken in English p. 23

Rhodri Morgan Y Prif Weinidog siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 23

I am not sure that that is not contradicted by my earlier answer because a CCET is not an Assembly sponsored public body. However, where public money is involved, that is a matter of concern. We are all aware of highly original practices undertaken by training groups to try to break the ice; we have all been involved in them. You were involved when they tried to tame you as a would-be Tory AM, David. Who knows what secrets you will disclose in your eventual autobiography as to what took place. I do not want to hear about it now, but it is important that, where there are concerns about public money expenditure, they can be answered, even though it is not covered by my earlier answer about Assembly sponsored public bodies.

Yr wyf yn amau bod fy ateb cynharach yn gwrthddweud hynny oherwydd nid yw CCAH yn gorff cyhoeddus a noddir gan y Cynulliad. Er hynny, pan fo arian cyhoeddus dan sylw, mae hynny’n destun pryder. Gwyddom oll am yr arferion tra gwreiddiol hyn a ddilynir gan grwpiau hyfforddi i geisio torri’r garw; yr ydym i gyd wedi cymryd rhan ynddynt. Gwnaethoch chi gymryd rhan ynddynt pan geisiasant eich dofi i fod yn ddarpar AC Torïaidd, David. Pwy a ŵyr pa gyfrinachau a ddatgelwch yn eich hunangofiant, pan ddaw, ynghylch yr hyn a ddigwyddodd. Nid wyf am glywed am hynny’n awr, ond mae’n bwysig, os oes pryderon ynghylch gwario arian cyhoeddus, y gellir rhoi sylw iddynt, er nad ymdrinnir â hynny yn fy ateb cynharach am gyrff cyhoeddus a noddir gan y Cynulliad.

Helen Mary Jones spoken in English p. 24

Helen Mary Jones siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 24

I am glad that you expect your Ministers to be responsible for concerns over expenditure of public money. So far, we have not had a sensible answer from the Minister for Education and Lifelong Learning on the problems with Education and Learning Wales. Specific issues are being considered as part of the audit process, and we acknowledge that they must go through that but, in recent weeks, a range of wider concerns has been raised on which your Minister refuses to answer questions. When will you make her answer, in line with the answer you just gave to David Davies?

Yr wyf yn falch eich bod yn disgwyl i’ch Gweinidogion fod yn atebol pan fo pryderon ynghylch gwario arian cyhoeddus. Hyd yma, ni chawsom ateb synhwyrol gan y Gweinidog dros Addysg a Dysgu Gydol Oes am y problemau sydd ynglŷn â Dysgu ac Addysgu Cymru. Mae materion penodol yn cael eu hystyried fel rhan o’r broses archwilio, a chydnabyddwn fod rhaid iddynt fynd drwy honno ond, yn yr wythnosau diwethaf, codwyd amryw o bryderon mwy cyffredinol y mae’r Gweinidog yn gwrthod ateb cwestiynau arnynt. Pa bryd y gorfodwch iddi ateb, yn unol â’r ateb yr ydych newydd ei roi i David Davies?

Rhodri Morgan The First Minister spoken in English p. 24

Rhodri Morgan Y Prif Weinidog siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 24

There is no question of making anybody do anything. It is a simple matter of rules. You graciously conceded that it was perfectly proper for Jane Davidson not to answer questions about the public procurement issues that are currently before the Audit Committee. We have a 30-day limit in which to present a formal Government response. Jane will not give that response in the Chamber; it will be made formally to the Audit Committee because that issue is within its remit at present. On the other issues that you raised, Jane Davidson has made a written statement. The problem is that opposition politicians want the Minister for Education and Lifelong Learning to answer for matters that are not her responsibility. The Minister is responsible for the culture of compliance and for setting out guidance, but not for individual spending decisions by Assembly sponsored public bodies. The individual spending decisions of those bodies, in terms of a breach—if such a breach occurs—of propriety, regularity or value for money, is a matter for the accounting officer, namely the chief executive, and, in broader terms, for the principal accounting officer for the entire Assembly, namely Sir Jon Shortridge, the Permanent Secretary.

Nid oes sôn am orfodi neb i wneud dim. Mater o reolau’n unig ydyw. Gwnaethoch dderbyn yn garedig ei bod yn gwbl briodol i Jane Davidson beidio ag ateb cwestiynau am y materion caffael cyhoeddus sydd gerbron y Pwyllgor Archwilio ar hyn o bryd. Mae gennym derfyn amser o 30 niwrnod ar gyfer cyflwyno ymateb ffurfiol gan y Llywodraeth. Ni fydd Jane yn rhoi’r ymateb hwnnw yn y Siambr; fe’i rhoddir yn ffurfiol i’r Pwyllgor Archwilio am fod y mater hwnnw o fewn ei gylch gorchwyl ef ar hyn o bryd. Ynghylch y materion eraill y gwnaethoch eu codi, mae Jane Davidson wedi gwneud datganiad ysgrifenedig. Y broblem yw bod gwleidyddion yr wrthblaid yn dymuno i’r Gweinidog dros Addysg a Dysgu Gydol Oes ateb dros faterion nad ydynt yn gyfrifoldeb iddi hi. Mae’r Gweinidog yn gyfrifol am arferion cydymffurfio ac am nodi canllawiau, ond nid am benderfyniadau gwario unigol gan gyrff cyhoeddus a noddir gan y Cynulliad. Mae penderfyniadau gwario unigol y cyrff hynny, os ceir torri ar wedduster, rheoleidd-dra neu werth am arian, yn fater i’r prif swyddog cyfrifo dros y Cynulliad cyfan, sef Syr Jon Shortridge, yr Ysgrifennydd Parhaol.

Datganiad ar Gynrychiolaeth ym Mrwsel

Statement on Representation in Brussels

Michael German The Deputy First Minister and Minister for Rural Development and Wales Abroad spoken in English p. 25

Michael German Y Dirprwy Brif Weinidog a’r Gweinidog dros Ddatblygu Gwledig a Chymru Dramor siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 25

In Plenary last May, the Government undertook to report back on negotiations with other stakeholders on the future shape of Welsh representation in Brussels. It is opportune to do so today, at a time when Wales is making its presence felt in a real and positive way on the ground in Brussels. Indeed, the First Minister and I have only just returned from Brussels this morning after attending the launch of Wales week in Brussels 2003. I will return to that in a moment, but I believe that we have also been party to the launch of a new era in Wales’s relationship with, and role in, Europe.

Yn y Cyfarfod Llawn fis Mai diwethaf, ymgymerodd y Llywodraeth i adrodd yn ôl ar negodiadau gyda rhanddeiliaid eraill ar ffurf cynrychiolaeth Cymru ym Mrwsel yn y dyfodol. Mae heddiw’n amser priodol i wneud hynny, ar adeg pan fo Cymru’n cael dylanwad gwirioneddol a chadarnhaol yn y fan a’r lle ym Mrwsel. Yn wir, mae’r Prif Weinidog a minnau newydd ddychwelyd o Frwsel y bore yma ar ôl bod yn bresennol yn lansiad wythnos Cymru ym Mrwsel 2003. Af yn ôl at hynny mewn eiliad, ond credaf inni fod â rhan hefyd mewn lansio oes newydd ym mherthynas Cymru ag Ewrop, a’i rôl ynddi.

It is almost 12 months since the Welsh Local Government Association decided to withdraw from membership of the Wales European Centre; the Assembly Government made its decision on 10 April 2002. The Government made clear at the time both its intention to strengthen its own presence in Brussels, and its desire to work with other Welsh interests to ensure that the overall Welsh representation was enhanced in a spirit of co-operation and collaboration.

Mae bron 12 mis ers i Gymdeithas Llywodraeth Leol Cymru benderfynu rhoi’r gorau i’w haelodaeth o Ganolfan Ewropeaidd Cymru; gwnaeth Llywodraeth y Cynulliad ei phenderfyniad hi ar 10 Ebrill 2002. Rhoddodd y Llywodraeth ar ddeall bryd hynny am ei bwriad i atgyfnerthu ei phresenoldeb ei hun ym Mrwsel, ac am ei hawydd i weithio gyda buddiannau eraill yng Nghymru i sicrhau gwell cynrychiolaeth i Gymru’n gyffredinol drwy gydweithio a chydweithredu.

There have been extensive discussions since then on the way in which the wide range of Welsh interests should be represented. The WLGA declared its position fairly early and decided to have its own representation on the ground, preferably co-located with the Assembly Government. The Wales European Centre has worked hard to identify its key customers and to restructure itself in light of its changed circumstances. I am pleased that it has been able to arrive at a structure built on core membership of the Welsh Development Agency, Education and Learning Wales, the environment sector and the university sector, with other bodies forming a second-tier membership.

Bu trafodaethau helaeth ers hynny ar y modd y dylid cynrychioli’r amrediad eang o fuddiannau yng Nghymru. Gwnaeth Cymdeithas Llywodraeth Leol Cymru ddatgan ei safbwynt yn eithaf cynnar a phenderfynu cael ei chynrychiolaeth ei hun yn y fan a’r lle, yn yr un man â Llywodraeth y Cynulliad, os oedd modd. Mae Canolfan Ewropeaidd Cymru wedi gweithio’n galed i ganfod ei chwsmeriaid allweddol ac i ailstrwythuro yng ngolwg y newid yn ei hamgylchiadau. Yr wyf yn falch ei bod wedi gallu penderfynu ar strwythur sy’n seiliedig ar aelodaeth graidd o Awdurdod Datblygu Cymru, Dysgu ac Addysgu Cymru, sector yr amgylchedd a’r sector prifysgolion, gyda chyrff eraill yn aelodau o ail haen.

Therefore, we have a clear way forward on three core elements of the Welsh presence in Brussels—the Government, WEC and the WLGA. Recruitment of staff for all three bodies is well underway. The position of the Presiding Office, on behalf of the wider National Assembly, is determined by the House Committee, acting on behalf of all Members, and I am hopeful that this matter will be cleared shortly.

Felly, mae gennym lwybr clir o’n blaen o ran y tair elfen graidd ym mhresenoldeb Cymru ym Mrwsel—y Llywodraeth, Canolfan Ewropaidd Cymru a CLlLC. Mae’r gwaith o recriwtio staff ar gyfer y tri chorff hyn yn mynd rhagddo. Pennir sefyllfa Swyddfa’r Llywydd, ar ran y Cynulliad Cenedlaethol yn gyffredinol, gan Bwyllgor y Tŷ, sy’n gweithredu ar ran yr holl Aelodau, ac yr wyf yn obeithiol y caiff y mater hwn ei ddatrys cyn hir.

Throughout the negotiating process, all three parties—the Government, WEC and the WLGA—have been keen to maintain a united physical Welsh presence, and discussions have been based on a presumption of co-location within the same building. The Government made clear its position on this issue at the start, and indicated its desire to make it as easy as possible to maintain that united physical presence. We have therefore agreed, subject to finalisation of some details, that the Government will assume responsibility for the cost of rental and utilities of the present building for the time being, and make accommodation available to WEC and the WLGA.

Drwy gydol y broses negodi, bu’r tair ochr—y Llywodraeth, Canolfan Ewropeaidd Cymru a CLlLC—yn awyddus i gynnal presenoldeb unedig o Gymru yn y fan a’r lle, ac mae’r trafodaethau wedi’u seilio ar y rhagdybiaeth y byddant wedi’u lleoli yn yr un adeilad. Eglurodd y Llywodraeth ei safbwynt ar y mater hwn ar y dechrau, a nododd ei dymuniad i’w gwneud cyn hawsed ag y bo modd cynnal y presenoldeb unedig hwnnw. Gan hynny, yr ydym wedi cytuno, ar yr amod y ceir penderfyniad ar rai manylion, y bydd y Llywodraeth yn derbyn y cyfrifoldeb am gostau rhent a chyfleustodau’r adeilad presennol am y tro, ac yn darparu ystafelloedd ar gyfer Canolfan Ewropeaidd Cymru a CLlLC.

It would be wrong to pretend that there are no issues concerning the physical condition and facilities of the present building. It is inappropriate to go into detail at this time, but I can give an assurance that the Government and WEC are working closely to resolve them in a way that represents best value for money. They are not issues between the Government and WEC, but relate to the physical condition of, and facilities in, the building.

Ni fyddai’n iawn honni nad oes materion sy’n codi ynghylch cyflwr yr adeilad presennol a’r cyfleusterau sydd ynddo. Nid yw’n briodol mynd i fanylion ar hyn o bryd, ond gallaf roi sicrwydd bod y Llywodraeth a Chanolfan Ewropeaidd Cymru yn cydweithio’n agos i’w datrys mewn modd sy’n cynnig y gwerth gorau am arian. Nid materion sy’n codi rhwng y Llywodraeth a Chanolfan Ewropeaidd Cymru yw’r rhain, ond rhai sy’n ymwneud â chyflwr yr adeilad a’r cyfleusterau sydd ynddo.

However, physical co-location is only one manifestation of a united Welsh presence. The new arrangements present opportunities to enhance significantly the effectiveness of Welsh representation in Brussels. Joint working arrangements on the ground will minimise duplication of effort and resource, and maximise output in terms of influence and profile.

Serch hynny, un agwedd yn unig ar bresenoldeb unedig Cymreig yw lleoli yn yr un man. Mae’r trefniadau newydd yn cynnig cyfleoedd i gael cynrychiolaeth fwy effeithiol o lawer i Gymru ym Mrwsel. Drwy gael trefniadau gweithio ar y cyd yn y fan a’r lle, gellir lleihau’r dyblygu ar ymdrechion ac adnoddau, a sicrhau’r dylanwad a’r amlygrwydd mwyaf posibl.

It has been agreed that working arrangements will be governed by agreed protocols, which will ensure sharing of information and intelligence, and arrangements for their dissemination. There will be co-ordination on the ground in Brussels and in Wales. We will now be looking to finalise those protocols and clear up any outstanding practical issues as soon as possible. The arrangements will exploit to the full the strengths of each of the occupants of Tŷ Cymru in Brussels, for the overall benefit of Wales.

Cytunwyd y bydd trefniadau gweithio yn cael eu llywio gan brotocolau a gytunir, a fydd yn sicrhau rhannu gwybodaeth a hysbysrwydd, a threfniadau i’w lledaenu. Bydd cydlynu yn y fan a’r lle ym Mrwsel ac yng Nghymru. Yn awr byddwn yn ceisio cwblhau’r protocolau hynny a datrys unrhyw faterion ymarferol sy’n weddill cyn gynted ag y bo modd. Bydd y trefniadau’n gwneud y defnydd mwyaf posibl o gryfderau pob un o ddeiliaid Tŷ Cymru ym Mrwsel, er budd cyffredinol i Gymru.

I began by referring to Wales week which, this year, has been a genuine joint collaborative effort between the Government and WEC and its members. No-one would claim that the process of strengthening Welsh presence in Brussels has been easy. However, what has typified the preparations for Wales week is the extent to which both sets of officials have worked hard to make it a success. The degree of commitment, determination and patience has been impressive.

Dechreuais drwy gyfeirio at wythnos Cymru a fu’n gydymdrech wirioneddol eleni rhwng y Llywodraeth a Chanolfan Ewropeaidd Cymru a’i haelodau. Ni fyddai neb yn honni mai gwaith hawdd oedd cryfhau presenoldeb Cymru ym Mrwsel. Fodd bynnag, yr hyn sydd wedi nodweddu’r paratoadau ar gyfer wythnos Cymru yw’r graddau y mae’r ddwy garfan o swyddogion wedi gweithio’n galed i’w gwneud yn llwyddiant. Bu eu hymrwymiad, eu penderfyniad a’u hamynedd yn wefreiddiol.

Similarly, no-one would claim that the process of reconstruction of the Welsh representative presence in Brussels over these last nine months or so has been easy, nor would anyone claim that there does not remain a number of challenges to make it work effectively. However, with the same commitment, determination and patience that has been shown thus far, we have the opportunity to make the Welsh presence in Brussels one of the most effective in the capital. I am confident that we will succeed.

Yn yr un modd, ni fyddai neb yn honni mai proses hawdd oedd ailadeiladu presenoldeb cynrychioladol Cymru ym Mrwsel dros y naw mis diwethaf, fwy neu lai, nac yn honni nad oes sawl her yn aros er mwyn peri iddo weithio’n effeithiol. Er hynny, o gael yr un ymrwymiad, penderfyniad ac amynedd ag a amlygwyd hyd yn hyn, mae gennym gyfle i beri mai presenoldeb Cymru ym Mrwsel fydd un o’r rhai mwyaf effeithiol yn y brifddinas. Yr wyf yn ffyddiog y byddwn yn llwyddo.

The European agenda over the next few months is hugely significant and its implications for Wales are enormous. We in the Government, with our partners throughout Wales and on the ground in Brussels, must face up to the challenge. The new Welsh representation in Brussels will give us the means to do so.

Mae’r agenda Ewropeaidd dros y misoedd nesaf yn un bwysig dros ben ac mae ei goblygiadau i Gymru’n aruthrol. Rhaid i ni yn y Llywodraeth, gyda’n partneriaid ledled Cymru ac ar lawr gwlad ym Mrwsel, wynebu’r her honno. Bydd cynrychiolaeth newydd Cymru ym Mrwsel yn cynnig modd inni wneud hynny.

Ieuan Wyn Jones siaradwyd yn Gymraeg t. 27

Ieuan Wyn Jones spoken in Welsh p. 27

Diolchaf am y datganiad. Gwyddom oll, yn anffodus, y bu’r gwaith o gynrychioli Cymru ym Mrwsel yn ystod y flwyddyn ddiwethaf yn hynod o anodd. Byddai rhai’n dweud iddo gael ei barlysu oherwydd y problemau o ran dyfodol WEC, swyddfa Llywodraeth y Cynulliad a swyddfa’r awdurdodau lleol. Yr hyn sy’n fy mhryderu ynglŷn â’r datganiad yw eich bod yn parhau i sôn am strwythurau—mae hynny’n bwysig—ond nid cymaint am natur y gynrychiolaeth fydd gan Gymru ym Mrwsel wedi gweithredu’r trefniadau hyn. Dim ond tua diwedd eich datganiad y bu ichi gyfeirio at y math o sialens y bydd Cymru yn ei hwynebu yn ystod y ddwy i dair blynedd nesaf—bydd yn sialens fawr. Bu ichi egluro hynny, gan gyfeirio at y problemau o ran cyfansoddiad newydd Ewrop, sut y caiff Ewrop ei llywodraethu a materion yn ymwneud â dyfodol y polisi amaethyddol cyffredin ac Amcan 1. Mae’r holl faterion hynny yn hynod o bwysig. Yn ogystal â rhoi syniad inni heddiw ynglŷn â’r strwythur newydd, yr wyf yn gobeithio eich bod yn gallu datgan yn union sut y bydd y strwythur newydd yn rhoi llais cryfach i Gymru yn y trafodaethau pwysig a gaiff eu cynnal. Sut fath o berthynas fydd yn bodoli rhwng y swyddfeydd newydd ac UKRep? A fydd gennym well presenoldeb o safbwynt perthynas Llywodraeth y Cynulliad ag UKRep? A welwn fwy o enghreifftiau o Weinidogion y Llywodraeth yn cymryd rôl arweiniol yng Nghyngor y Gweinidogion, yn sicrhau perthynas â’r Comisiwn Ewropeaidd ac yn sicrhau bod gennym berthynas dda gyda’r Aelodau o Senedd Ewrop sy’n cynrychioli Cymru? Yr wyf yn gobeithio y gallwch ddweud wrthym fod y strwythur yn ei le, y gallwn edrych ymlaen o ddifrif at y modd y caiff ei weinyddu ac y bydd yn dwyn ffrwyth.

Thank you for your statement. We are all aware, unfortunately, that the work of representing Wales in Brussels during the past year has been extremely difficult. Some would say that it has been paralysed because of the problems regarding the future of WEC, the Assembly Government’s office and that of the local authorities. What concerns me about the statement is that you still talk about structures—that is important—but do not say nearly as much about what the nature of Wales’s representation in Brussels will be after the implementation of these arrangements. You only referred towards the end of your statement to the sort of challenge that Wales will face during the next two to three years—it will be a huge challenge. You have explained that, and referred to the problems pertaining to the new European constitution, how Europe will be governed and issues surrounding the future of the common agricultural policy and Objective 1. All those issues are extremely important. I hope that, as well as giving us some idea of the new structure today, you will be in a position to tell us exactly how the new structure will give Wales a stronger voice in the important discussions to come. What type of relationship will the new offices and UKRep have? Will we have a stronger presence in terms of the relationship between the Assembly Government and UKRep? Will we see more examples of Government Ministers taking a leading role in the Council of Ministers, forging a relationship with the European Commission and ensuring that we have a good relationship with Members of the European Parliament who represent Wales? I hope that you can tell us that the structure is in place, that we can genuinely look forward to its delivery and that it will bear fruit.

Y mae’n bwysig hefyd ichi ddweud wrthym beth fydd sefyllfa’r staff o fewn y strwythur newydd. Un peth i galonogi pobl yn fawr yw’r ffordd y bu nifer o’r staff yn swyddfa WEC ym Mrwsel yn gweithio yn arbennig o dda, er bod cwmwl mawr uwch eu pennau ers cyfnod maith. Maent yn bobl dda ac mae buddiannau Cymru’n agos at eu calonnau. Buont yn disgwyl yn hir i gael gwybod os bydd swydd ar gael iddynt a beth fydd y strwythur newydd. A gawsoch drafodaethau, gan gynnwys rhai gyda’r staff, i sicrhau eu bod yn teimlo y caiff eu buddiannau eu hystyried o fewn y broses newydd?

It is also important that you tell us exactly where the staff will stand within the new structure. One issue that has encouraged people a great deal is the fact that many members of staff at the WEC office in Brussels have worked extremely well, although there has been a huge cloud hanging over them for a long time. They are good people who have Wales’s interests at heart. They have waited a long time to find out whether they have a job and what the new structure will be. Have you held discussions, including discussions with staff, to ensure that they feel that their interests will be considered within the new process?

Michael German spoken in English p. 28

Michael German siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 28

You have asked several questions. First, on the difficulties WEC has faced in conducting its work during the past year, I have alluded to the fact that it has not been easy. However, yesterday, I was given a document by the outgoing chair of the WEC—most of the board members resigned yesterday for technical reasons—which lists the centre’s achievements during the past year. It is quite a substantial list of activities with which it has been engaged, of which the chair is intensely proud.

Yr ydych wedi gofyn sawl cwestiwn. Yn gyntaf, ynghylch yr anawsterau y mae Canolfan Ewropeaidd Cymru wedi’u hwynebu wrth wneud ei gwaith yn ystod y flwyddyn a aeth heibio, yr wyf wedi cyfeirio at y ffaith na fu’n hawdd. Fodd bynnag, ddoe, rhoddwyd dogfen imi gan gadeirydd ymadawol y ganolfan—ymddiswyddodd y rhan fwyaf o aelodau’r bwrdd ddoe am resymau technegol—sy’n rhestru cyflawniadau’r ganolfan yn ystod y flwyddyn a aeth heibio. Mae’n rhestr eithaf sylweddol o weithgareddau y bu’n ymwneud â hwy, ac mae’r cadeirydd yn falch dros ben ohonynt.

The issue of staffing is important. We now know that Tŷ Cymru will probably have a third more staff on the ground than it currently has. The Welsh Assembly Government office will have between 11 and 12 staff, depending on the final decision to be taken on that matter; the Wales European Centre will have six; the Welsh Local Government Association will have three; and the Assembly’s representation is yet to be determined—that is around a third more than we currently have. Some 70 applications have been received for the Assembly Government posts; they are being sifted to form a shortlist, and interviews begin on 13 March. Of the six WEC staff, the director has been appointed and other appointments have been offered to staff. I yesterday met the WLGA’s head of office, and appointments have been offered to others. I also met the new director of the WLGA at Tŷ Cymru and discussed the relationships with him.

Mae staffio’n fater pwysig. Gwyddom bellach y bydd gan Tŷ Cymru un rhan o dair yn fwy o staff, yn ôl pob tebyg, nag sydd ganddo’n awr. Bydd 11 neu 12 o staff yn swyddfa Llywodraeth Cynulliad Cymru, yn ôl y penderfyniad terfynol ar y mater hwnnw; bydd chwech gan Ganolfan Ewropeaidd Cymru; bydd tri gan Gymdeithas Llywodraeth Leol Cymru; ac mae cynrychiolaeth y Cynulliad i’w phennu eto—dyna ymron i un rhan o dair yn fwy nag sydd gennym ar hyn o bryd. Cafwyd tua 70 o geisiadau am swyddi Llywodraeth y Cynulliad; maent yn cael eu didol er mwyn tynnu rhestr fer, a bydd y cyfweliadau’n dechrau ar 13 Mawrth. O blith chwe aelod staff Canolfan Ewropeaidd Cymru, mae’r cyfarwyddwr wedi’i benodi a chynigiwyd swyddi eraill i staff. Ddoe cyfarfûm â phennaeth swyddfa CLlLC, ac mae swyddi wedi’u cynnig i eraill. Cyfarfûm hefyd â chyfarwyddwr newydd CLlLC yn Tŷ Cymru a thrafod y cysylltiadau gydag ef.

The way in which we relate to UKRep is crucial, and having a strengthened Assembly Government presence in Brussels will enable more people to have UKRep accreditation. It is important that they must be part of Assembly Government procedure. I am also keen that we should have more Assembly official placements in UKRep. I met all our seconded staff, bar one, at a meeting in Brussels a few weeks ago to discuss how we could promote further representation in UKRep and other European institutions.

Mae’r modd yr ydym yn ymwneud ag UKRep yn hollbwysig, ac ar ôl cryfhau presenoldeb Llywodraeth y Cynulliad ym Mrwsel, bydd modd i ragor o bobl gael eu hachredu gan UKRep. Mae’n bwysig eu bod yn rhan o weithdrefn Llywodraeth y Cynulliad. Yr wyf hefyd yn awyddus inni gael rhagor o leoliadau swyddogol ar gyfer y Cynulliad yn UKRep. Cyfarfûm â’r holl staff sydd gennym ar secondiad, heblaw un, mewn cyfarfod ym Mrwsel ychydig wythnosau’n ôl i drafod sut y gallem hyrwyddo ein cynrychiolaeth yn UKRep ac mewn sefydliadau Ewropeaidd eraill ymhellach.

Nick Bourne spoken in English p. 29

Nick Bourne siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 29

I thank you for your statement, which raises many issues. It is nearly a year since the First Minister got us—and Wales—into an incredible mess by unilaterally terminating the agreement with WEC. Since then, it is an understatement to say that things have not been easy. There has been massive uncertainty among WEC staff, and we should pay tribute to how they have handled a difficult situation, and the loyalty that they have shown in the interim.

Diolch i chi am eich datganiad, sy’n codi llawer o faterion. Mae bron flwyddyn ers i’r Prif Weinidog fynd â ni—a Chymru—i drafferthion anhygoel drwy derfynu’r cytundeb â Chanolfan Ewropeaidd Cymru yn unochrog. Ers hynny, tanosodiad yw dweud na fu pethau’n hawdd. Bu ansicrwydd enbyd ymysg staff y ganolfan, a dylem ganmol y modd y maent wedi trafod sefyllfa anodd, a’r teyrngarwch y maent wedi’i amlygu yn y cyfamser.

You say that you hope that there will not be duplication, Minister, however, the danger is that there will be quadruplication. There are now four potential organisations representing Wales in Brussels. While it is good that we have strengthened representation—I am not against that—we must guard against quadruplication between the WLGA, WEC mark 2, the National Assembly Government office, and any office that is represented through the Presiding Officer on the part of all other Assembly Members. That is currently being discussed, as you rightly say, by the House Committee. I would like you to return to those important issues, and say how quadruplication will be prevented, given the staff numbers that we have been talking about. It is also important—if you are able, Minister—to say something about costs. We have details about the new structures but, while we all have an interest in ensuring that we are strongly represented in Brussels, it would be good to hear some reassurance about costs—what extra costs have been incurred and are they one-off or continuing costs. You may be able to give at least some broad figures on that so that we can be reassured that this will not present a massive hole in the budget, where resources are scarce.

Dywedwch eich bod yn gobeithio na fydd dyblygu, Weinidog, ond y perygl yw y ceir pedryblygu. Bellach mae pedwar corff a all gynrychioli Cymru ym Mrwsel. Er ei bod yn beth da bod gennym gynrychiolaeth gryfach—nid wyf yn erbyn hynny—rhaid inni wylio rhag pedryblygu rhwng CLlLC, Canfolfan Ewropeaidd Cymru math 2, swyddfa Llywodraeth Cynulliad Cymru, ac unrhyw swyddfa a gynrychiolir drwy’r Llywydd ar ran holl Aelodau eraill y Cynulliad. Trafodir hynny ar hyn o bryd, fel y dywedasoch, gan Bwyllgor y Tŷ. Byddai’n dda gennyf pe aech yn ôl at y materion pwysig hynny, a dweud sut y rhwystrir pedryblygu, o ystyried y niferoedd staff y buom yn sôn amdanynt. Mae hefyd yn bwysig dweud rhywbeth—os gallwch, Weinidog—am gostau. Mae gennym fanylion am y strwythurau newydd ond, er bod buddiant gan bawb ohonom mewn sicrhau bod gennym gynrychiolaeth gryf ym Mrwsel, byddai’n beth da cael rhyw sicrwydd ynghylch costau—pa gostau ychwanegol yr aethpwyd iddynt ac a ydynt yn gostau unigryw neu barhaol. Efallai y byddwch yn gallu rhoi o leiaf rai ffigurau bras am hynny fel y gallwn fod yn dawel ein meddwl na fydd hyn yn gwneud tolc mawr yn y gyllideb, lle y mae adnoddau’n brin.

Michael German spoken in English p. 30

Michael German siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 30

I will deal with your last point first, Nick. I cannot give you a figure for staffing in total and the difference with regard to current staffing, because people have not been appointed—it depends on the levels of their current salaries and individual circumstances. The building costs for the current regime are approximately £110,000 for rent, utilities, telephones and so on, offset by our current subscription to WEC, as it was, of £189,000 plus the rental of £25,000—we know that figure. There will be an increased staffing cost due to the increased staff numbers coming from the Assembly Government.

Ymdriniaf â’r pwynt olaf a wnaethoch yn gyntaf, Nick. Ni allaf roi ffigur am yr holl staffio a’r gwahaniaeth rhwng hynny a’r staffio presennol, gan nad yw pobl wedi’u penodi—mae’n dibynnu ar eu lefelau cyflog presennol a’u hamgylchiadau unigol. Costau’r adeilad ar gyfer y gyfundrefn bresennol yw tua £110,000 ar gyfer rhent, cyfleustodau, teleffonau ac yn y blaen, a gwrthbwysir hynny gan ein tanysgrifiad presennol i Ganolfan Ewropeaidd Cymru, fel yr oedd, o £189,000 ynghyd â’r rhent o £25,000—gwyddom y ffigur hwnnw. Bydd costau staffio uwch oherwydd y nifer fwy o staff a fydd yn dod o Lywodraeth y Cynulliad.

The more substantive point is about overlap, which is crucial. We must guard against people reporting in different ways. The representative role will be undertaken by the Welsh Assembly Government’s operational officials. However, the key role, to a great extent, is sharing information and searching for the latest information and intelligence about what is happening in Brussels. I believe that everyone in Tŷ Cymru will undertake that, because it is in the interests of the represented stakeholders to find out as much as possible. The issue for me is the protocol that relates to working together and sharing that intelligence insofar as is possible. Welsh Assembly Government diplomatic staff can share some information, insofar as that information is not in the restricted regime of their diplomatic status. However, it is important that the heads of office of the three leading players in particular—the WLGA, WEC, and the Welsh Assembly Government—work closely to ensure that we share that intelligence. We have learnt from other representations and regional Governments in Brussels that we must ensure that we can work as one. That is the challenge for the future. There is a great deal of optimism from the three current post holders that I mentioned to do just that. I hope that that will be formalised into a protocol in the near future.

Mae’r pwynt pwysicach a wnaethoch yn ymwneud â gorgyffwrdd, ac mae hynny’n hollbwysig. Rhaid inni ofalu na fydd pobl yn adrodd mewn gwahanol ffyrdd. Swyddogion gweithredol Llywodraeth Cynulliad Cymru fydd yn ymgymryd â’r rôl gynrychioladol. Fodd bynnag, y rôl allweddol, i raddau helaeth, yw rhannu gwybodaeth a chwilio am y wybodaeth a’r hysbysrwydd diweddaraf am yr hyn sy’n digwydd ym Mrwsel. Credaf y bydd pawb yn Tŷ Cymru yn ymgymryd â hynny, gan ei bod o fudd i’r rhanddeiliaid a gynrychiolir ddarganfod cymaint ag y bo modd. Y mater i mi yw’r protocol sy’n ymwneud â chydweithio a rhannu hysbysrwydd i’r graddau y gellir. Gall staff diplomyddol Llywodraeth Cynulliad Cymru rannu rhywfaint o wybodaeth, heblaw am hynny sy’n gyfyngedig iddynt hwy yn rhinwedd eu statws diplomyddol. Fodd bynnag, mae’n bwysig bod penaethiaid swyddfeydd y tri chyfrannwr arweiniol yn benodol—CLlLC, Canolfan Ewropeaidd Cymru, a Llywodraeth Cynulliad Cymru—yn cydweithio’n agos i sicrhau ein bod yn rhannu’r hysbysrwydd hwnnw. Yr ydym wedi dysgu gan gynrychiolaethau a Llywodraethau rhanbarthol eraill ym Mrwsel fod rhaid inni geisio sicrhau y gallwn weithio’n gytûn. Dyna’r her ar gyfer y dyfodol. Mae’r tri deiliad swydd presennol y soniais amdanynt yn ffyddiog iawn y gellir gwneud hynny. Gobeithiaf y caiff hynny ei ffurfioli mewn protocol yn y dyfodol agos.

Rosemary Butler spoken in English p. 31

Rosemary Butler siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 31

I agree that we should have strong representation in Brussels, and that the officials should be of the highest calibre. I join other Members in congratulating the existing staff on the excellent job that they have been doing during this difficult time. I receive briefings from members of WEC and from the Assembly staff in Brussels for my role on the Committee of the Regions, and they are of the highest quality. I agree with the Minister that we should encourage as many staff as possible to take up placements in Europe. It is important that we get a broader approach. Can the Minister tell me whether he has had any discussions with any airlines about restarting flights between Brussels and Cardiff? It is ridiculous that we have this new role in Europe and cannot fly from Wales to Brussels. I find it particularly difficult and Janet Davies finds it even more difficult than I do. When I am representing Wales, to fly from England is difficult. Therefore, have there been any discussions about flights? If staff are travelling to Brussels, it takes them a day longer if they have to fly from airports other than Cardiff.

Cytunaf y dylem gael cynrychiolaeth gryf ym Mrwsel, ac y dylai’r swyddogion fod o’r radd flaenaf. Ymunaf ag Aelodau eraill i longyfarch y staff presennol ar y gwaith rhagorol a wnaethant yn ystod y cyfnod anodd hwn. Yr wyf yn cael fy mriffio gan aelodau o Ganolfan Ewropeaidd Cymru a chan staff y Cynulliad ym Mrwsel ar gyfer fy rôl ar Bwyllgor y Rhanbarthau, ac mae’r cyngor a dderbyniaf o’r radd flaenaf. Cytunaf â’r Gweinidog y dylem annog cynifer o staff ag y bo modd i ymgymryd â lleoliadau yn Ewrop. Mae’n bwysig inni gael dull gweithredu mwy cyffredinol. A all y Gweinidog ddweud wrthyf a gafodd unrhyw drafodaethau ag unrhyw gwmnïau awyrennau ynghylch ailgychwyn ehediadau rhwng Brwsel a Chaerdydd? Mae’n chwerthinllyd bod y rôl newydd hon mewn Ewrop gennym a ninnau’n methu â hedfan o Gymru i Frwsel. Yr wyf yn ei chael yn arbennig o anodd ac mae Janet Davies yn ei chael yn anos byth. Pan wyf yn cynrychioli Cymru, mae hedfan o Loegr yn anodd. Felly, a fu unrhyw drafodaethau ynghylch ehediadau? Os yw staff yn teithio i Frwsel, mae’n cymryd diwrnod yn hwy iddynt os ydynt yn gorfod hedfan o feysydd awyr heblaw Caerdydd.

Michael German spoken in English p. 32

Michael German siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 32

I can reassure you on that latter point. I have heard many complaints about the lack of direct flights from Cardiff to Brussels in the last 48 hours, from the Vice-President of the European Commission, Members of the European Parliament, the First Minister and others, about our being left without a direct service from Cardiff to Brussels. I know that Assembly officials and my colleague, Sue Essex, have discussed these issues with the airlines. It is important that we keep up the pressure for this provision, which is a lifeline between Wales and a key place where we need to be represented.

Gallaf roi sicrwydd i chi ar y pwynt olaf. Clywais lawer o gwynion am ddiffyg ehediadau uniongyrchol o Gaerdydd i Frwsel yn y ddau ddiwrnod diwethaf, gan Is-Lywydd y Comisiwn Ewropeaidd, Aelodau o Senedd Ewrop, y Prif Weinidog ac eraill, am ein bod wedi’n gadael heb wasanaeth uniongyrchol o Gaerdydd i Frwsel. Gwn fod swyddogion y Cynulliad a’m cyd-Weinidog, Sue Essex, wedi trafod y materion hyn gyda’r cwmnïau awyrennau. Mae’n bwysig inni ddal i bwyso am y ddarpariaeth hon, sy’n gyswllt hanfodol rhwng Cymru a lle allweddol lle y mae’n rhaid inni gael ein cynrychioli.

On the other issue that you raised, namely placements, I could not agree more. We have to make as much of this as we can, and encourage as many officials as possible to take up opportunities not just in European institutions, but in UKRep and in our own office in Brussels. I hope that in the coming months we can encourage far more people than we have done in the past to take up such opportunities and create more long-term posts that have a Welsh tag to them inside European institutions.

Ynghylch y mater arall y gwnaethoch ei godi, sef lleoliadau, yr wyf yn llwyr gytuno â chi. Rhaid inni wneud cymaint ag y gallwn o hyn, ac annog cynifer o swyddogion ag y bo modd i fanteisio ar gyfleoedd, nid yn unig mewn sefydliadau Ewropeaidd, ond yn UKRep a’n swyddfa ein hun ym Mrwsel hefyd. Gobeithiaf y gallwn annog llawer mwy yn y misoedd i ddod nag a wnaethom yn y gorffennol i fanteisio ar gyfleoedd o’r fath a chreu rhagor o swyddi tymor-hir sydd â label Cymreig arnynt mewn sefydliadau Ewropaidd.

Janet Davies spoken in English p. 32

Janet Davies siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 32

I will not get involved in the regional airline issue, but the First Minister said that there would not be a problem in getting another airline on board. As the alternate representative on the Committee of the Regions, I raise the issue of the National Assembly’s representation, as opposed to the Assembly Government’s representation. I am concerned that that issue is not settled yet, because it is important that the Committee of the Regions’ members can present well-researched and considered arguments for Wales, that stand comparison with those of other members and, indeed, exceed them. Under the new arrangements, will the National Assembly staff be in a different unit to the Government staff? Will they be adequately funded to give high-quality in-depth briefings? Will there be co-working or is the Welsh Assembly Government unit going to be inward-looking and keep itself to itself?

Ni wnaf ymhel â mater y cwmni awyrennau rhanbarthol, ond dywedodd y Prif Weinidog na fyddai’n anodd denu cwmni awyrennau arall. Fel y cynrychiolydd wrth gefn ar Bwyllgor y Rhanbarthau, codaf fater cynrychiolaeth y Cynulliad Cenedlaethol, yn hytrach na chynrychiolaeth Llywodraeth y Cynulliad. Yr wyf yn bryderus am nad yw’r mater hwnnw wedi’i ddatrys eto, gan ei bod yn bwysig bod aelodau Pwyllgor y Rhanbarthau yn gallu cyflwyno dadleuon ystyriol a chadarn dros Gymru, sy’n gystal â dadleuon aelodau eraill ac, yn wir, yn rhagori arnynt. O dan y trefniadau newydd, a fydd staff y Cynulliad Cenedlaethol mewn uned ar wahân i staff y Llywodraeth? A gânt eu cyllido’n ddigonol fel y gallant roi cyfarwyddyd manwl o ansawdd da? A fydd gweithio ar y cyd neu a fydd uned Llywodraeth Cynulliad Cymru yn fewnblyg ac yn aros yn ei chragen?

Michael German spoken in English p. 33

Michael German siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 33

As you know, this is a matter for the House Committee. Members of the Committee on European and External Affairs, at the request of myself and the Clerk of the Committee, have had from the Deputy Presiding Officer a copy of the paper which is going before the House Committee in confidence, so that they can make their views known to the House Committee before it meets to discuss this matter. That is the most appropriate approach. The decision is not my hands.

Fel y gwyddoch, mae hyn yn fater i Bwyllgor y Tŷ. Mae aelodau’r Pwyllgor Materion Ewropeaidd ac Allanol, ar fy nghais i a Chlerc y Pwyllgor, wedi cael copi gan y Dirprwy Lywydd o’r papur a aiff gerbron Pwyllgor y Tŷ yn gyfrinachol, fel y gallant roi gwybod am eu barn i Bwyllgor y Tŷ cyn iddo gyfarfod i drafod y mater hwn. Dyna’r dull gweithredu mwyaf priodol. Nid yw’r penderfyniad yn fy nwylo i.

Mick Bates spoken in English p. 33

Mick Bates siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 33

Thank you for your statement, Minister. It is important that we increase our presence in Europe and its effectiveness, particularly against the background of the expansion of the European Union and the possibility of a proportionally smaller Welsh voice in Europe. I recall visiting the building in Brussels and was taken aback by its failure to comply with disabled access and so on. Have those matters been put right? If not, what plans are there to do that?

Diolch i chi am eich datganiad, Weinidog. Mae’n bwysig inni gynyddu ein presenoldeb yn Ewrop a sicrhau ei fod yn fwy effeithiol, yn enwedig yng nghyd-destun ehangu’r Undeb Ewropeaidd a’r posibilrwydd y bydd gan Gymru lai o lais yn Ewrop ar gyfartaledd. Cofiaf ymweld â’r adeilad ym Mrwsel a chael fy synnu am nad oedd yn cydymffurfio â gofynion mynediad i’r anabl ac yn y blaen. A yw’r materion hynny wedi’u cywiro? Os nad ydynt, pa gynlluniau a geir i wneud hynny?

I would also be interested to hear how we will secure economic relationships to ensure that European regions are aware of how we can help them and vice versa. Recently, for example, in the National Assembly sustainable energy group, we had a talk from a representative of an area of Spain that has been able to achieve remarkable renewable energy targets by working with other regions. I am pleased to see United Utilities, with its Scarweather project, here today. That will help us in Wales to reach targets to reduce carbon emission. What role will these officials play in the promotion of renewable energy so that we in Wales can exploit the economic benefits of a new industry here?

Byddai hefyd o ddiddordeb imi glywed sut y byddwn yn sicrhau cysylltiadau economaidd er mwyn gofalu bod rhanbarthau Ewrop yn gwybod am y modd y gallwn eu helpu hwy ac fel arall. Yn ddiweddar, er enghraifft, yng ngrŵp ynni cynaliadwy’r Cynulliad Cenedlaethol, cawsom sgwrs gan gynrychiolydd o ardal yn Sbaen sydd wedi gallu cyrraedd targedau rhyfeddol o ran ynni adnewyddadwy drwy weithio gyda rhanbarthau eraill. Yr wyf yn falch o weld United Utilities, gyda’i brosiect Scarweather, yma heddiw. Bydd hynny’n ein helpu ni yng Nghymru i gyrraedd targedau ar gyfer lleihau gollyngiadau carbon. Pa rôl y bydd y swyddogion hyn yn ei chwarae mewn hyrwyddo ynni adnewyddadwy fel y gallwn ni yng Nghymru gael buddion economaidd o’r diwydiant newydd hwn?

Michael German spoken in English p. 34

Michael German siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 34

There were many questions there, Mick. On enlargement, you are right that it is important that we maximise opportunities in what will be an increasingly crowded playing field to make the Welsh voice heard. As you will know, the Welsh Assembly Government has taken a stronger role in recent months in Regions with Legislative Powers—the so-called REG-LEG group—and in the Conference of Peripheral Maritime Regions, which is another powerful regional body. We also have a role, of course, in the Committee of Regions, in which Rosemary Butler represents us. That is an important route for us. The First Minister has taken a chairing role in one of the sub-groups. We are also looking to involve ourselves in the cultural dimension.

Yr oedd gennych lawer o gwestiynau, Mick. Ynghylch yr ehangu, yr ydych yn iawn wrth ddweud ei bod yn bwysig inni fanteisio i’r eithaf ar ein cyfleoedd i sicrhau y clywir llais Cymru yng nghanol y dorf gynyddol. Fel y gwyddoch, mae Llywodraeth Cynulliad Cymru wedi ymgymryd â rôl fwy pendant yn y misoedd diwethaf yng ngrŵp y Rhanbarthau â Phwerau Deddfwriaethol— grŵp REG-LEG fel y’i gelwir—a’r Gynhadledd Rhanbarthau Arforol Ymylol, sy’n gorff rhanbarthol pwerus arall. Mae gennym rôl hefyd, wrth gwrs, ym Mhwyllgor y Rhanbarthau, lle y’n cynrychiolir gan Rosemary Butler. Mae hwnnw’n gyfrwng pwysig i ni. Mae’r Prif Weinidog wedi ymgymryd â rôl cadeirio yn un o’r is-grwpiau. Yr ydym hefyd yn bwriadu cymryd rhan yn yr agwedd ddiwylliannol.

You mentioned disability access. That must be dealt with in respect of the current building, because disabled people cannot currently access the building. We must deal with that issue swiftly.

Gwnaethoch sôn am fynediad i’r anabl. Rhaid delio â hynny mewn perthynas â’r adeilad presennol, gan nad yw pobl anabl yn gallu mynd iddo ar hyn o bryd. Rhaid inni ddelio â’r mater hwnnw’n fuan.

On your last point, and the renewable energy example that you gave, a Welsh Assembly Government policy officer will be appointed to the office, with sole responsibility for the environment. That will give us a much-strengthened role.

Ynghylch y pwynt olaf a wnaethoch, a’r enghraifft ynni adnewyddadwy a roesoch, penodir swyddog polisi Llywodraeth Cynulliad Cymru yn y swyddfa, a chanddo gyfrifoldeb dros yr amgylchedd yn unig. Bydd hynny’n rhoi rôl gryfach o lawer i ni.

Rhodri Glyn Thomas siaradwyd yn Gymraeg t. 34

Rhodri Glyn Thomas spoken in Welsh p. 34

Gobeithiaf fod y Gweinidog yn cytuno bod angen ewyllys wleidyddol, yn ogystal â strwythurau, er mwyn i’r Cynulliad Cenedlaethol gael cynrychiolaeth lawn yn Ewrop. Gan gyfeirio at y meysydd y mae’n gyfrifol amdanynt, a chnydau a addaswyd yn enetig yn benodol, beth y mae wedi’i wneud i herio bwriad Franz Fischler i osod cyfrifoldeb nid ar y cwmnïau sy’n plannu’r cnydau hynny ond ar y ffermwyr cyfagos a effeithir yn sgîl hynny?

I hope that the Minister agrees that, in addition to structures, political will is required if the National Assembly is to have full representation in Europe. With reference to the areas for which he is responsible, and genetically-modified crops in particular, what has he done to challenge Franz Fischler’s intention to place responsibility not on the companies that sow such crops but on the neighbouring farmers who will be affected as a result?

Dafydd Elis-Thomas Y Llywydd siaradwyd yn Gymraeg t. 34

Dafydd Elis-Thomas The Presiding Officer spoken in Welsh p. 34

Trefn. Ni chredaf fod y mater hwnnw’n codi o’r datganiad hwn ar gynrychiolaeth ym Mrwsel. Mater polisi ydyw. Wrth gwrs, os yw’r Gweinidog yn dymuno ymateb, ni wnaf ei rwystro. Fodd bynnag, ni chredaf fod y cwestiwn mewn trefn.

Order. I do not believe that that issue arises from this statement on representation in Brussels. That is a policy matter. Of course, if the Minister wishes to respond, I will not prevent him from doing so. However, I do not think that the question is in order.

Michael German spoken in English p. 35

Michael German siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 35

I think that Rhodri also has the wrong commissioner—it is to David Byrne that such matters should be addressed.

Ni chredaf fod y comisiynydd iawn gan Rhodri ychwaith—i David Byrne y dylid cyfeirio materion o’r fath.

Datganiad Busnes

Business Statement

Carwyn Jones The Business Minister spoken in English p. 35

Carwyn Jones Y Trefnydd siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 35

There are two changes to report to this week’s business. Andrew Davies will be making his statement on the Government’s response to the Economic Development Committee’s report on renewable energy tomorrow, instead of today. In view of the pressure on business, Jenny Randerson will now make her periodic statement on progress on the Wales Millennium Centre as a written statement, instead of making the oral statement that was scheduled for tomorrow. As for the next three weeks’ business, the draft statement can be found on the Chamberweb under supporting documents.

Mae dau newid i’w hadrodd i fusnes yr wythnos hon. Bydd Andrew Davies yn rhoi ei ddatganiad ar ymateb y Llywodraeth i adroddiad y Pwyllgor Datblygu Economaidd ar ynni adnewyddadwy yfory, yn hytrach na heddiw. Oherwydd y pwysau ar fusnes, bydd Jenny Randerson yn rhoi ei datganiad cyfnodol ar y cynnydd ar Ganolfan Mileniwm Cymru ar ffurf datganiad ysgrifenedig yn awr, yn hytrach na rhoi’r datganiad llafar a amserlennwyd ar gyfer yfory. O ran busnes y tair wythnos nesaf, gellir gweld y datganiad drafft ar we’r Siambr o dan ddogfennau ategol.

Following the Business Committee meeting this morning, the Deputy Presiding Officer determined under Standing Order No. 22.5 that the following items of legislation need not be referred to a Subject Committee for extended consideration: the Individual Learning Accounts (Wales) Regulations 2003, the Health and Social Care Act 2001 (Commencement No. 5) (Wales) Order 2003, the National Assistance (Residential Accommodation) (Disregarding of Resources) (Wales) Regulations 2003, the National Assistance (Residential Accommodation) (Additional Payments, Relevant Contributions and Assessment of Resources) (Wales) Regulations 2003, the Education (Remission of Charges relating to Residential Trips) (Wales) Regulations 2003, the Commons Registration (General) (Amendment) (Wales) Regulations 2003, the Education (School Lunches) (Prescribed Requirement) (Wales) Order 2003, the Education (Free School Lunches) (Prescribed Tax Credits) (Wales) Order 2003, the Miscellaneous Food Additives (Amendment) (Wales) Regulations 2003 and the Care Homes (Wales) (Amendment) Regulations 2003.

Ar ôl y cyfarfod o’r Pwyllgor Busnes y bore yma, penderfynodd y Dirprwy Lywydd o dan Reol Sefydlog Rhif 22.5 nad oes angen cyfeirio’r eitemau deddfwriaeth a ganlyn i Bwyllgor Pwnc i’w hystyried yn helaethach: Rheoliadau Cyfrifon Dysgu Unigol (Cymru) 2003, Gorchymyn Deddf Iechyd a Gofal Cymdeithasol 2001 (Cychwyn Rhif 5) (Cymru) 2003, Rheoliadau Cymorth Gwladol (Llety Preswyl) (Diystyru Adnoddau) (Cymru) 2003, Rheoliadau Cymorth Gwladol (Llety Preswyl) (Taliadau Ychwanegol, Cyfraniadau Perthnasol ac Asesu Adnoddau) (Cymru) 2003, Rheoliadau Addysg (Peidio â Chodi Tâl sy’n Ymwneud â Theithiau Preswyl) (Cymru) 2003, Rheoliadau Cofrestru Tir Comin (Cyffredinol) (Diwygio) (Cymru) 2003, Gorchymyn Addysg (Ciniawau Ysgol) (Gofyniad Rhagnodedig) (Cymru) 2003, Gorchymyn Addysg (Ciniawau Ysgol Rhad ac am Ddim) (Credydau Treth Rhagnodedig) (Cymru) 2003, Rheoliadau Ychwanegion Bwyd Amrywiol (Diwygio) (Cymru) 2003 a Rheoliadau Cartrefi Gofal (Cymru) (Diwygio) 2003.

Dafydd Elis-Thomas Y Llywydd siaradwyd yn Gymraeg t. 36

Dafydd Elis-Thomas The Presiding Officer spoken in Welsh p. 36

A oes unrhyw wrthwynebiad i’r datganiad busnes? Gwelaf fod. A oes 10 gwrthwynebiad i’r datganiad busnes? Gwelaf fod. Galwaf felly ar y Trefnydd i gynnig y datganiad busnes yn ffurfiol.

Is there any objection to the business statement? I see that there is. Are there 10 objections to the business statement? I see that there are. I therefore call on the Business Minister to formally propose the business statement.

Carwyn Jones siaradwyd yn Gymraeg t. 36

Carwyn Jones spoken in Welsh p. 36

Cynigiaf fod

I propose that

Carwyn Jones (parhad) siaradwyd yn Gymraeg t. 36

Carwyn Jones (continued) spoken in Welsh p. 36

Galwaf am i’r gloch gael ei chanu.

I request that the bell be rung.

Dafydd Elis-Thomas Y Llywydd siaradwyd yn Gymraeg t. 36

Dafydd Elis-Thomas The Presiding Officer spoken in Welsh p. 36

A oes tri Aelod yn cefnogi’r cais am ganu’r gloch? Gwelaf fod. Glerc, canwch y gloch.

Do three Members support the request that the bell be rung? I see that they do. Clerk, please ring the bell.

Canwyd y gloch.

The bell was rung.

Dafydd Elis-Thomas Y Llywydd siaradwyd yn Gymraeg t. 36

Dafydd Elis-Thomas The Presiding Officer spoken in Welsh p. 36

Ymddiheuraf i’r Cynulliad. Yn fy awydd i blesio’r Trefnydd, ymatebais i’r cais i ganu’r gloch yn rhy gyflym. Mae Rheol Sefydlog Rhif 6.21 yn nodi y gellir canu’r gloch, os gelwir am hynny, cyn cynnal pleidlais. Fodd bynnag, cyn cynnal pleidlais yn y Cynulliad, rhaid inni gael dadl. O leiaf mae’r Siambr yn llawn yn awr i wrando ar y ddadl honno.

I apologise to the Assembly. In my desire to please the Business Minister, I responded too quickly to the request that the bell be rung. Standing Order No. 6.21 states that the bell can be rung, if requested, before a vote is held. However, before a vote is held in the Assembly, we must have a debate. At least the Chamber is now full to listen to that debate.

Ieuan Wyn Jones spoken in English p. 36

Ieuan Wyn Jones siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 36

The fact that the Government felt that it had to request that the bell be rung is indicative of its nervousness on this issue. This, after all, is the key issue of the day. The Minister knows that there should be a debate on Iraq in the National Assembly. Whatever he may say, he knows that the people of Wales are interested in the views of Assembly Members and political parties. Members of the public regularly contact us asking when a debate on this issue will be held. The Business Minister knows perfectly well that there is pressure within his own party for a debate to be held. How long can he hold out and deny the Assembly an opportunity to debate this issue? If we listen to the words of the Prime Minister in Westminster and of George Bush, we know that we are likely to be in a war situation within the next few days. This is our last opportunity to express a view before that war takes place. The people of Wales, by and large, oppose that war. The Business Minister knows that. Given these circumstances, I urge him to accept Plaid Cymru’s request for a debate on this issue. Many Labour Members have privately expressed the view that such a debate should be held. Will he give us the opportunity to hold a full debate in the Assembly before war is declared?

Mae’r ffaith bod y Llywodraeth yn teimlo bod rhaid iddi alw am ganu’r gloch yn dangos ei bod yn nerfus ynghylch y mater hwn. Hwn, wedi’r cwbl, yw pwnc allweddol y dydd. Gŵyr y Gweinidog y dylid cynnal dadl ar Irac yn y Cynulliad Cenedlaethol. Beth bynnag a ddywedo, gŵyr fod pobl Cymru’n ymddiddori ym marn Aelodau o’r Cynulliad a’r pleidiau gwleidyddol. Mae aelodau o’r cyhoedd yn cysylltu â ni’n rheolaidd i ofyn pa bryd y cynhelir dadl ar y pwnc hwn. Gŵyr y Trefnydd yn iawn fod pwysau o fewn ei blaid ei hun am gynnal dadl. Pa mor hir y gall ddal a gwrthod cyfle i’r Cynulliad gael dadl ar y mater hwn? Os gwrandawn ar eiriau’r Prif Weinidog yn San Steffan ac ar George Bush, gwyddom ein bod yn debygol o fod mewn sefyllfa o ryfel o fewn y dyddiau nesaf. Dyma’r cyfle olaf sydd gennym i fynegi barn cyn i ryfel ddigwydd. Mae pobl Cymru, gan mwyaf, yn gwrthwynebu’r rhyfel hwnnw. Mae’r Trefnydd yn gwybod hynny. O ystyried yr amgylchiadau hyn, fe’i hanogaf i dderbyn cais Plaid Cymru am gael dadl ar y mater hwn. Mae llawer o Aelodau Llafur wedi mynegi barn yn breifat i’r perwyl y dylid cynnal dadl. A wnaiff roi cyfle inni gynnal dadl lawn yn y Cynulliad cyn datgan rhyfel?

Dafydd Elis-Thomas Y Llywydd siaradwyd yn Gymraeg t. 37

Dafydd Elis-Thomas The Presiding Officer spoken in Welsh p. 37

O dan y Rheolau Sefydlog, rhaid imi alw un Aelod o bob grŵp gwleidyddol i siarad cyn i’r Trefnydd ymateb.

Under Standing Orders, I must call one Member from each political group to speak before the Business Minister responds.

Delyth Evans siaradwyd yn Gymraeg t. 37

Delyth Evans spoken in Welsh p. 37

Rhag ofn bod amheuaeth ynghylch hyn, Carwyn, nid ydych dan bwysau o fewn eich plaid eich hun i gynnal dadl ar y mater hwn. Nid oes rhaid imi ddweud hynny wrthych. Yr wyf fi, a llawer o bobl eraill, yn teimlo y dylai’r Cynulliad ganolbwyntio ar faterion y mae gennym bwerau drostynt yng Nghymru. Dyna a ddywed pobl Cymru wrthyf hefyd. Maent yn teimlo mai mater i San Steffan ddelio ag ef ydyw diogelwch ein gwlad, ac y dylai’r Cynulliad ganolbwyntio ar faterion y mae gennym gyfrifoldeb drostynt. Dywed llawer o bobl wrthyf y byddai’n llawer gwell ganddynt glywed y pleidiau eraill, yn enwedig Plaid Cymru, yn siarad am gyfrifoldebau’r Cynulliad yn hytrach nag am faterion nad ydym yn gyfrifol amdanynt. Teimlaf y dylem ganolbwyntio ar ein pwerau yn y Cynulliad, yn sicr o fewn amser y Llywodraeth, er bod pob Aelod yn rhydd i fynegi barn ar unrhyw fater.

In case there is any doubt about this, Carwyn, you are not under any pressure from within your own party to hold a debate on this issue. I do not have to tell you that. I, and many others, feel that the Assembly should concentrate on issues over which we have powers in Wales. That is what the people of Wales also tell me. They feel that the security of our country is a matter to be dealt with by Westminster, and that the Assembly should concentrate on issues for which we have responsibility. Many people tell me that they would much prefer to hear the other political parties, particularly Plaid Cymru, talk about the Assembly’s responsibilities, rather than about issues for which we are not responsible. I feel that we should concentrate on our powers in the Assembly, certainly within the Government’s time, although all Members are free to voice an opinion on any issue.

Nick Bourne spoken in English p. 37

Nick Bourne siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 37

While it remains the case that foreign affairs are determined upon at Westminster, there are issues that impact on devolved policy areas. I will provide two examples that have occurred during the last 48 hours to illustrate why I believe that it is vital that we debate this in the National Assembly. We are told that the Westminster Government will make smallpox vaccinations available in England, should that prove necessary. No-one knows the position on that in Wales. That is a crucial question that we are entitled to put to the Government and to which it should respond. I put the second example to Delyth Evans, as these are issues that are relevant to a devolved Assembly. We know that there will be a civil defence exercise in London to prepare for a possible terrorist attack, so that the emergency services can gauge how they can work together and so that members of the public know how matters will proceed. Similar exercises should be held in Wales, as such situations would be controlled from within Wales. Those are two issues that could be addressed if a debate were held. There are other issues. For example, there will be communal problems if there is engagement—and it seems inevitable that there will be—between different races and religions in Wales. It is important that we can voice concerns, particularly in terms of the first two examples, before armed engagement takes place. We do not want to discuss this after war has started. It is important that we discuss these issues now. It is right; I do not see how anyone can deny that. Members of the public are contacting us with these concerns and asking us about the National Assembly’s stance. It is time that the First Minister told us that he thinks that there should be a debate and when it will be held. It should not be later than this week—it should be today. It keeps on being postponed, but it is high time that it was held: it impacts upon life in devolved Wales.

Er ei bod yn wir mai yn San Steffan y penderfynir ar faterion tramor o hyd, mae materion sy’n effeithio ar feysydd polisi a ddatganolwyd. Rhoddaf ddwy enghraifft a gododd yn ystod y ddau ddiwrnod diwethaf i ddangos pam y credaf ei bod yn hollbwysig inni drafod hyn yn y Cynulliad Cenedlaethol. Dywedir wrthym y bydd Llywodraeth San Steffan yn sicrhau bod brechiadau rhag y frech wen ar gael yn Lloegr, os bydd angen. Ni ŵyr neb beth yw’r sefyllfa ynghylch hynny yng Nghymru. Mae hwnnw’n gwestiwn hollbwysig y mae gennym hawl i’w ofyn i’r Llywodraeth ac y dylai ymateb iddo. Rhoddaf yr ail enghraifft i Delyth Evans, gan fod y materion hyn yn berthnasol i Gynulliad datganoledig. Gwyddom y bydd ymarfer amddiffyn sifil yn Llundain i baratoi ar gyfer y posibilrwydd o ymosodiad gan derfysgwyr, fel y gall y gwasanaethau brys gael amcan o sut y gallant gydweithio ac fel y bydd aelodau o’r cyhoedd yn gwybod sut y bydd materion yn datblygu. Dylid cynnal ymarferion tebyg yng Nghymru, gan y byddid yn rheoli sefyllfaoedd o’r fath y tu mewn i Gymru. Dyna ddau fater y gellid ymdrin â hwy pe cynhelid dadl. Mae materion eraill. Er enghraifft, ceir problemau cymunedol os bydd ymladd—ac mae hynny’n ymddangos yn anorfod bellach—rhwng gwahanol hiliau a chrefyddau yng Nghymru. Mae’n bwysig inni allu mynegi pryderon, yn enwedig yng nghyd-destun y ddwy enghraifft gyntaf, cyn y ceir ymladd. Nid ydym am drafod hyn ar ôl dechrau rhyfel. Mae’n bwysig inni drafod y materion hyn yn awr. Mae’n iawn; ni welaf sut y gall neb wadu hynny. Mae aelodau o’r cyhoedd yn cysylltu â ni gan fynegi’r pryderon hyn a’n holi am safbwynt y Cynulliad Cenedlaethol. Mae’n bryd i’r Prif Weinidog ddweud wrthym ei fod yn credu y dylid cael dadl a pha bryd y’i cynhelir. Ni ddylai fod yn hwyrach na’r wythnos hon—dylid ei chael heddiw. Mae’n cael ei gohirio o hyd, ond mae’n hen bryd ei chynnal: mae’n effeithio ar fywyd yn y Gymru ddatganoledig.

Kirsty Williams spoken in English p. 38

Kirsty Williams siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 38

Business Minister, you know the Welsh Liberal Democrats’ views on this matter from our discussions earlier today. Will you commit to urgently reviewing the need for a debate in the National Assembly for Wales on this subject? Will you also give an undertaking that, should public services for which the National Assembly for Wales is responsible be affected by any military endeavours in the Gulf, we will have an opportunity to debate that in Plenary?

Drefnydd, gwyddoch farn Democratiaid Rhyddfrydol Cymru ar y mater hwn oddi wrth ein trafodaethau’n gynharach heddiw. A wnewch ymrwymo i adolygu ar frys yr angen am ddadl yng Nghynulliad Cenedlaethol Cymru ar y pwnc hwn? A wnewch hefyd ymgymryd, os effeithir ar wasanaethau cyhoeddus y mae Cynulliad Cenedlaethol Cymru yn gyfrifol amdanynt gan unrhyw ymgyrchoedd milwrol yn y Gwlff, y cawn gyfle i drafod hynny yn y Cyfarfod Llawn?

Carwyn Jones The Business Minister spoken in English p. 38

Carwyn Jones Y Trefnydd siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 38

This is a serious matter and, as I explained in the Chamber last week, it remains under review. It is not the case that the Government has taken the stance that we should never debate the matter, but a material change would be needed—whatever that might be; it need not be a declaration of war or the start of conflict—before we held such a debate.

Mae hyn yn fater difrifol ac, fel yr eglurais yn y Siambr yr wythnos diwethaf, mae dan sylw o hyd. Nid yw’n wir mai safbwynt y Llywodraeth yw na ddylem byth drafod y mater, ond byddai angen newid o bwys—beth bynnag y gallai hynny fod; nid datganiad o ryfel neu ddechrau ymladd o reidrwydd—cyn y cynhaliem ddadl o’r fath.

I can give the commitment that you seek, Kirsty: I will examine the matter closely and keep it under review. I will consider the views expressed in the Chamber fully and carefully over the next week and I will, as I have done in the past, discuss the situation with the First Minister and my Labour group colleagues. A full and frank discussion has taken place between colleagues in my party.

Gallaf roi’r ymrwymiad a geisiwch, Kirsty: ystyriaf y mater yn fanwl a’i gadw dan sylw. Gwnaf ystyried y farn a fynegwyd yn y Siambr yn llawn ac yn ofalus dros yr wythnos nesaf ac, fel y gwneuthum yn y gorffennol, gwnaf drafod y sefyllfa gyda’r Prif Weinidog a’m cyd-Aelodau yn y grŵp Llafur. Bu trafodaeth lawn ac agored rhwng cyd-Aelodau yn fy mhlaid i.

To pick up on Nick’s point about recent reports on the issuing of vaccines and preparations for emergency evacuations, it is important not to sow panic. Mixed messages should not be given to the public; people must understand the true situation. Therefore, I will consider the matter further and will report back to the Chamber on this issue next week. As I said, a point may come where a debate is needed, and I will consider that position over the next week. We do not know if and when there will be conflict, so it is impossible to say that we should hold a debate by any given date. However, should conflict break out in the meantime, urgent consideration will be given to taking this matter further.

Gan ddilyn y pwynt a wnaeth Nick am adroddiadau diweddar ar ddosbarthu brechlynnau a pharatoadau ar gyfer gwagio mewn argyfwng, mae’n bwysig peidio â chreu braw. Ni ddylid cyfleu negeseuon cymysg i’r cyhoedd; rhaid i bobl ddeall y wir sefyllfa. Gan hynny, gwnaf ystyried y mater ymhellach ac adrodd yn ôl i’r Siambr ar y mater yr wythnos nesaf. Fel y dywedais, efallai y daw adeg pan fo angen dadl, a gwnaf ystyried y sefyllfa honno dros yr wythnos nesaf. Ni wyddom a fydd ymladd, felly ni ellir dweud y dylem gynnal dadl erbyn rhyw ddyddiad penodol. Er hynny, os bydd ymladd yn dechrau yn y cyfamser, rhoddir ystyriaeth frys i fynd â’r mater hwn ymhellach.

Cynnig Carwyn Jones t. 39

Motion Carwyn Jones p. 39

DerbyniwydAdopted O blaidFor 29 YmatalAbstain 0 Yn erbynAgainst 19

Derbyniwyd y cynnig.

Motion carried.

Sut y pleidleisiodd yr AelodauHow Members voted
O blaidFor (29)
  • Lorraine Barrett
  • Mick Bates
  • Peter Black
  • Eleanor Burnham
  • Rosemary Butler
  • Christine Chapman
  • Jane Davidson
  • Andrew Davies
  • Sue Essex
  • Delyth Evans
  • Michael German
  • Brian Gibbons
  • Janice Gregory
  • John Griffiths
  • Christine Gwyther
  • Alison Halford
  • Edwina Hart
  • Jane Hutt
  • Carwyn Jones
  • Peter Law
  • Huw Lewis
  • Val Lloyd
  • Rhodri Morgan
  • Lynne Neagle
  • Alun Pugh
  • Jenny Randerson
  • Karen Sinclair
  • Gwenda Thomas
  • Kirsty Williams
Yn erbynAgainst (19)
  • Nick Bourne
  • Alun Cairns
  • Cynog Dafis
  • David Davies
  • Geraint Davies
  • Glyn Davies
  • Janet Davies
  • Jocelyn Davies
  • William Graham
  • David Ian Jones
  • Elin Jones
  • Helen Mary Jones
  • Ieuan Wyn Jones
  • David Lloyd
  • David Melding
  • Jonathan Morgan
  • Janet Ryder
  • Owen John Thomas
  • Rhodri Glyn Thomas

Pwyntiau o Drefn

Points of Order

David Davies spoken in English p. 40

David Davies siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 40

I raise a point of order relating to last week’s debate on public sector purchasing policies, during which Mick Bates asked me whether I supported cheap food imports. I forcefully replied that I did not, as the Record of Proceedings clearly shows. The leader of the Welsh Liberal Democrats then issued a press release stating that I wanted to see the closure of Welsh farms by importing cheap food.

Codaf bwynt o drefn sy’n ymwneud â’r ddadl yr wythnos diwethaf ar bolisïau caffael yn y sector cyhoeddus, pryd y gofynnodd Mick Bates i mi a oeddwn o blaid mewnforio bwydydd rhad. Atebais yn bendant nad oeddwn, fel y dengys Cofnod y Trafodion yn glir. Yna, cyhoeddodd arweinydd Democratiaid Rhyddfrydol Cymru ddatganiad yn y wasg yn datgan fy mod yn dymuno gweld cau ffermydd yng Nghymru drwy fewnforio bwydydd rhad.

I will make three points. First, the Deputy First Minister should stop spreading these untruths, when he knows—[Interruption.]

Gwnaf dri phwynt. Yn gyntaf, dylai’r Dirprwy Brif Weinidog roi’r gorau i ledaenu’r anwireddau hyn, ac yntau’n gwybod—[Torri ar draws.]

Dafydd Elis-Thomas The Presiding Officer spoken in English p. 40

Dafydd Elis-Thomas Y Llywydd siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 40

Order.

Trefn.

David Davies spoken in English p. 40

David Davies siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 40

He should be more concerned than most about how public sector bodies are organised, especially after what happened at the Welsh Joint Education Committee, when he—[Interruption.]

Dylai ef ymboeni’n fwy na’r rhan fwyaf am drefniadaeth cyrff sector cyhoeddus, yn enwedig ar ôl yr hyn a ddigwyddodd yng Nghyd-bwyllgor Addysg Cymru, pan oedd ef—[Torri ar draws.]

Dafydd Elis-Thomas The Presiding Officer spoken in English p. 40

Dafydd Elis-Thomas Y Llywydd siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 40

Order.

Trefn.

David Davies spoken in English p. 40

David Davies siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 40

Not even the Lib Dems will want to keep the imports of a barrel load of porky-pies—

Ni fydd hyd yn oed y Democratiaid Rhyddfrydol am gadw cynnwys llond barel o anwireddau—

Dafydd Elis-Thomas The Presiding Officer spoken in English p. 40

Dafydd Elis-Thomas Y Llywydd siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 40

Order. I have listened carefully to David Davies. [Laughter.] I have concluded that this is not a point of order for me. However, Members are entitled to draw attention to the excellence of our Record of Proceedings at any time.

Trefn. Yr wyf wedi gwrando’n astud ar David Davies. [Chwerthin.] Deuthum i’r casgliad nad yw hwn yn bwynt o drefn i mi. Er hynny, mae gan Aelodau hawl i dynnu sylw at ragoriaeth ein Cofnod o Drafodion ar unrhyw adeg.

Jonathan Morgan spoken in English p. 40

Jonathan Morgan siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 40

Point of order. I raise this under Standing Order No. 6. In light of further press reports about Education and Learning Wales and the Auditor General’s reference to the Bentley Jennison report that examined the internal running and the financial irregularities at ELWa, we believe that the time for a Cabinet statement is now.

Pwynt o drefn. Codaf hyn o dan Reol Sefydlog Rhif 6. Yng ngolwg adroddiadau pellach yn y wasg am Ddysgu ac Addysgu Cymru a’r cyfeiriad gan yr Archwilydd Cyffredinol at adroddiad Bentley Jennison a ymchwiliodd i weithrediad mewnol ELWa a’r afreoleidd-dra ariannol ynddo, credwn ei bod yn bryd cael datganiad gan y Cabinet yn awr.

The report names four senior officials—

Mae’r adroddiad yn enwi pedwar uwch swyddog—

Dafydd Elis-Thomas The Presiding Officer spoken in English p. 41

Dafydd Elis-Thomas Y Llywydd siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 41

Order. It is not appropriate to name officials in the Chamber. This is not a point of order for me; whether or not a statement is made is a matter for the Minister in question.

Trefn. Nid yw’n briodol enwi swyddogion yn y Siambr. Nid yw hyn yn fater o drefn i mi; mater i’r Gweinidog dan sylw ydyw a wneir datganiad ai peidio.

Cynnig Cyfansawdd: Cymeradwyo Gorchmynion

Composite Motion: Approval of Orders

Dafydd Elis-Thomas Y Llywydd siaradwyd yn Gymraeg t. 41

Dafydd Elis-Thomas The Presiding Officer spoken in Welsh p. 41

O dan Reol Sefydlog Rhif 22.5, ni chynhelir dadl ar y cynnig hwn.

Under Standing Order No. 22.25, this motion is not subject to debate.

Carwyn Jones Y Trefnydd siaradwyd yn Gymraeg t. 41

Carwyn Jones The Business Minister spoken in Welsh p. 41

Cynigiaf fod

I propose that

DerbyniwydAdopted O blaidFor 44 YmatalAbstain 0 Yn erbynAgainst 0

Derbyniwyd y cynnig.

Motion carried.

Sut y pleidleisiodd yr AelodauHow Members voted
O blaidFor (44)
  • Lorraine Barrett
  • Mick Bates
  • Peter Black
  • Nick Bourne
  • Eleanor Burnham
  • Rosemary Butler
  • Alun Cairns
  • Christine Chapman
  • Cynog Dafis
  • Andrew Davies
  • David Davies
  • Geraint Davies
  • Janet Davies
  • Jocelyn Davies
  • Sue Essex
  • Delyth Evans
  • Michael German
  • William Graham
  • Janice Gregory
  • John Griffiths
  • Brian Gibbons
  • Christine Gwyther
  • Alison Halford
  • Edwina Hart
  • Jane Hutt
  • Carwyn Jones
  • David Ian Jones
  • Elin Jones
  • Helen Mary Jones
  • Peter Law
  • Huw Lewis
  • David Lloyd
  • Val Lloyd
  • David Melding
  • Jonathan Morgan
  • Rhodri Morgan
  • Alun Pugh
  • Jenny Randerson
  • Janet Ryder
  • Karen Sinclair
  • Gwenda Thomas
  • Owen John Thomas
  • Rhodri Glyn Thomas
  • Kirsty Williams

Cymeradwyo’r Gorchymyn Asiantaeth Diogelu Iechyd (The Health Protection Agency) (Sefydlu) 2003

Approval of the Health Protection Agency (Yr Asiantaeth Diogelu Iechyd) (Establishment) Order 2003

Jane Hutt The Minister for Health and Social Services spoken in English p. 43

Jane Hutt Y Gweinidog dros Iechyd a Gwasanaethau Cymdeithasol siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 43

I propose that

Cynigiaf fod

David Lloyd spoken in English p. 43

David Lloyd siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 43

This is a debate about the Health Protection Agency which, as outlined in the documentation, is a special health authority for England and Wales and is a development to be welcomed. However, the arrangements seem a little complex. The functions of the Health Protection Agency in England incorporate public health, but that is not the case in Wales. We have our own national public health service, which is also to be welcomed. Specifically, the Health Protection Agency’s functions also include the Microbiological Research Authority, the National Focus for Chemical Incidents and regional health emergency planning. Health protection is a crowded field with many different services, regulatory bodies, government agencies and local authorities involved.

Mae hon yn ddadl am yr Asiantaeth Diogelu Iechyd sydd, fel yr amlinellir yn y dogfennau, yn awdurdod iechyd arbennig i Gymru a Lloegr ac yn ddatblygiad i’w groesawu. Er hynny, mae’r trefniadau’n ymddangos braidd yn gymhleth. Mae swyddogaethau’r Asiantaeth Diogelu Iechyd yn Lloegr yn cynnwys iechyd cyhoeddus, ond nid felly y mae yng Nghymru. Mae gennym ein gwasanaeth iechyd cyhoeddus gwladol ein hun, sydd hefyd i’w groesawu. Yn benodol, mae swyddogaethau’r Asiantaeth Diogelu Iechyd hefyd yn cynnwys yr Awdurdod Ymchwil Microbiolegol, y Ffocws Cenedlaethol ar gyfer Digwyddiadau Cemegol a chynllunio argyfwng iechyd rhanbarthol. Mae diogelu iechyd yn faes lle y mae nifer fawr o wahanol wasanaethau, cyrff rheoliadol, asiantaethau llywodraeth ac awdurdodau lleol yn cymryd rhan.

Two specific issues concerning the Minister arise from that. First, how will the National Assembly influence the deliberations of the Health Protection Agency—what lines of accountability exist for this England and Wales body? My second question concerns emergency planning functions in terms of natural disasters or terrorist threats or attacks, be they biological, chemical or otherwise, as Nick Bourne alluded to previously. What systems within these new structures, and pertaining to Wales, are in place to ensure a timely and focused response to such potential catastrophes? When that is clarified, moves to improve the quality and co-ordination of responses to protect public health are very much to be welcomed.

Mae dau fater penodol sy’n ymwneud â’r Gweinidog yn deillio o hynny. Yn gyntaf, sut y bydd y Cynulliad Cenedlaethol yn dylanwadu ar drafodion yr Asiantaeth Diogelu Iechyd—pa linellau atebolrwydd sy’n bod ar gyfer y corff hwn i Gymru a Lloegr? Mae’r ail gwestiwn sydd gennyf yn ymwneud â swyddogaethau cynllunio argyfwng yng nghyd-destun trychinebau naturiol neu fygythiadau neu ymosodiadau gan derfysgwyr, boed hwy’n rhai biolegol, cemegol neu fel arall, y cyfeiriodd Nick Bourne atynt yn gynharach. Pa systemau yn y strwythurau newydd hyn, sy’n berthynol i Gymru, sydd ar waith i sicrhau ymateb amserol a phendant i drychinebau posibl o’r fath? Wedi cael eglurhad ar hynny, bydd camau i wella ansawdd a chydlyniad yr ymatebion i ddiogelu iechyd cyhoeddus i’w croesawu’n fawr iawn.

Jane Hutt The Minister for Health and Social Services spoken in English p. 44

Jane Hutt Y Gweinidog dros Iechyd a Gwasanaethau Cymdeithasol siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 44

Thank you, Dai. You know that I have brought this matter to the attention of the Health and Social Services Committee on a number of occasions, and there has been consultation on the important document ‘Getting Ahead of the Curve’, which was also the discussion paper on the impact that the infectious disease strategy for England would have on Wales. We aim to establish the new Health Protection Agency as a special health authority from 1 April 2003, and it will be responsible for functions allocated to it by the NHS Act 1999. You know, however, that the health emergency function will continue to be provided by the Assembly. The Health Protection Agency, our new national public health service—which, as you said Dai, has been warmly welcomed—and the emergency planning functions will work together against terrorist threats or attacks. The precise arrangements for establishing the Health Protection Agency as an England and Wales body, agreed recently, have now taken us forward to propose these regulations and this establishment Order. Accountabilities in relation to the public health function will be clear, through the specialist health authority to the Chief Medical Officer for Wales and through to me as Minister. We also have Welsh representation, in the form of membership, on the Health Protection Agency.

Diolch i chi, Dai. Gwyddoch fy mod wedi dwyn y mater hwn i sylw’r Pwyllgor Iechyd a Gwasanaethau Cymdeithasol nifer o weithiau, ac y bu ymgynghori ar y ddogfen bwysig ‘Getting Ahead of the Curve’, a oedd hefyd yn ddogfen drafod ar yr effaith a gâi’r strategaeth clefydau heintus i Loegr ar Gymru. Bwriadwn sefydlu’r Asiantaeth Diogelu Iechyd yn awdurdod iechyd arbennig o 1 Ebrill 2003, a bydd yn gyfrifol am swyddogaethau a ddyrennir iddi drwy’r Ddeddf GIG 1999. Gwyddoch, fodd bynnag, y bydd y swyddogaeth argyfwng iechyd yn dal i gael ei chyflawni gan y Cynulliad. Bydd yr Asiantaeth Diogelu Iechyd, ein gwasanaeth iechyd cyhoeddus cenedlaethol newydd—sydd wedi cael croeso cynnes, fel y dywedasoch, Dai—a’r swyddogaethau cynllunio argyfwng yn gweithio gyda’i gilydd yn erbyn bygythiadau neu ymosodiadau gan derfysgwyr. Mae’r union drefniadau ar gyfer sefydlu’r Asiantaeth Diogelu Iechyd yn gorff i Gymru a Lloegr, a gytunwyd yn ddiweddar, wedi ein rhoi mewn sefyllfa’n awr i allu cynnig y rheoliadau hyn a’r Gorchymyn sefydlu hwn. Bydd yr atebolrwydd dros y swyddogaeth iechyd cyhoeddus yn glir, drwy’r awdurdod iechyd arbenigol i Brif Swyddog Meddygol Cymru a thrwodd ataf fi fel Gweinidog. Mae gennym gynrychiolaeth o Gymru hefyd, ar ffurf aelodaeth, yn yr Asiantaeth Diogelu Iechyd.

DerbyniwydAdopted O blaidFor 37 YmatalAbstain 0 Yn erbynAgainst 0

Derbyniwyd y cynnig.

Motion carried.

Sut y pleidleisiodd yr AelodauHow Members voted
O blaidFor (37)
  • Lorraine Barrett
  • Mick Bates
  • Peter Black
  • Eleanor Burnham
  • Rosemary Butler
  • Christine Chapman
  • Andrew Davies
  • David Davies
  • Geraint Davies
  • Janet Davies
  • Jocelyn Davies
  • Sue Essex
  • Delyth Evans
  • Michael German
  • Janice Gregory
  • John Griffiths
  • Brian Gibbons
  • Christine Gwyther
  • Alison Halford
  • Edwina Hart
  • Jane Hutt
  • Carwyn Jones
  • Elin Jones
  • Helen Mary Jones
  • Peter Law
  • Huw Lewis
  • David Lloyd
  • Val Lloyd
  • David Melding
  • Rhodri Morgan
  • Alun Pugh
  • Jenny Randerson
  • Janet Ryder
  • Karen Sinclair
  • Gwenda Thomas
  • Rhodri Glyn Thomas
  • Kirsty Williams

Cymeradwyo Rheoliadau’r Asiantaeth Diogelu Iechyd (The Health Protection Agency) 2003

Approval of the Health Protection Agency (Yr Asiantaeth Diogelu Iechyd) Regulations 2003

Jane Hutt The Minister for Health and Social Services spoken in English p. 45

Jane Hutt Y Gweinidog dros Iechyd a Gwasanaethau Cymdeithasol siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 45

I propose that

Cynigiaf fod

Dafydd Elis-Thomas Y Llywydd siaradwyd yn Gymraeg t. 45

Dafydd Elis-Thomas The Presiding Officer spoken in Welsh p. 45

Gwelaf nad oes siaradwyr ar y mater hwn. Felly, cynhaliwn bleidlais ar unwaith.

I see that there are no speakers on this matter. We will, therefore, move immediately to the vote.

DerbyniwydAdopted O blaidFor 36 YmatalAbstain 0 Yn erbynAgainst 0

Derbyniwyd y cynnig.

Motion carried.

Sut y pleidleisiodd yr AelodauHow Members voted
O blaidFor (36)
  • Lorraine Barrett
  • Mick Bates
  • Peter Black
  • Eleanor Burnham
  • Rosemary Butler
  • Christine Chapman
  • Andrew Davies
  • David Davies
  • Geraint Davies
  • Janet Davies
  • Jocelyn Davies
  • Sue Essex
  • Delyth Evans
  • Michael German
  • Janice Gregory
  • John Griffiths
  • Brian Gibbons
  • Christine Gwyther
  • Alison Halford
  • Edwina Hart
  • Jane Hutt
  • Carwyn Jones
  • Elin Jones
  • Helen Mary Jones
  • Peter Law
  • Huw Lewis
  • David Lloyd
  • Val Lloyd
  • David Melding
  • Rhodri Morgan
  • Alun Pugh
  • Jenny Randerson
  • Janet Ryder
  • Karen Sinclair
  • Rhodri Glyn Thomas
  • Kirsty Williams

Cymeradwyo Cyllid Llywodraeth Leol (Cymru) Adroddiad Grant Arbennig (Rhif 21) (Cymru) 2002

Approval of the Local Government Finance (Wales) Special Grant Report (No. 21) (Wales) 2002

Sue Essex The Minister for Environment spoken in English p. 46

Sue Essex Y Gweinidog dros yr Amgylchedd siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 46

I propose that

Cynigiaf fod

Sue Essex The Minister for Environment (continued) spoken in English p. 47

Sue Essex Y Gweinidog dros yr Amgylchedd (parhad) siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 47

I am pleased to bring this special grant report before the Assembly for approval. It distributes funding worth £6,746,000 directly to local authorities in Wales to help them to deliver road-safety projects and schemes in their own areas. This is the fourth report to focus on improving road safety in local communities. Since 2000, just over £12 million has been distributed for this purpose. The funding for 2003-04 is particularly important as it will help local authorities to deliver the aims and objectives outlined in the road safety strategy for Wales, which I launched on 23 January. The strategy’s main aim is to reduce real and perceived dangers on Welsh roads to promote safe and sustainable access for all members of society. The strategy sets out a practical and prioritised programme from now until 2010, and includes new and innovative measures to address the causes of road collisions and casualties, and to achieve casualty reduction targets. This funding will contribute to the overall enhancement of road safety. It gives local authorities the flexibility to put together the right package for their communities.

Yr wyf yn falch o ddwyn yr adroddiad grant arbennig hwn gerbron y Cynulliad i’w gymeradwyo. Mae’n dosbarthu cyllid o £6,746,000 yn uniongyrchol i awdurdodau lleol yng Nghymru i’w helpu i gyflawni prosiectau a chynlluniau diogelwch ar y ffyrdd yn eu hardaloedd. Hwn yw’r pedwerydd adroddiad sy’n canolbwyntio ar wella diogelwch ar y ffyrdd mewn cymunedau lleol. Ers 2000, dosbarthwyd ychydig yn fwy na £12 miliwn i’r diben hwn. Mae’r cyllid ar gyfer 2003-04 yn arbennig o bwysig gan y bydd yn helpu awdurdodau lleol i gyflawni’r nodau a’r amcanion a amlinellir yn y strategaeth diogelwch ar y ffyrdd i Gymru, a lansiais ar 23 Ionawr. Prif nod y strategaeth yw lleihau’r peryglon gwirioneddol a chanfyddedig ar ffyrdd yng Nghymru er mwyn hyrwyddo mynediad diogel a chynaliadwy ar gyfer pob aelod o gymdeithas. Mae’r strategaeth yn nodi rhaglen ymarferol yn ôl blaenoriaethau o hyn tan 2010, ac yn cynnwys mesurau newydd ac arloesol i fynd i’r afael ag achosion gwrthdrawiadau a damweiniau ar ffyrdd, ac i gyrraedd targedau ar gyfer gostwng nifer y damweiniau. Bydd y cyllid hwn yn cyfrannu at hybu diogelwch ar ffyrdd yn gyffredinol. Mae’n rhoi hyblygrwydd i awdurdodau lleol fel y gallant lunio’r pecyn iawn ar gyfer eu cymunedau.

In looking at the aim of influencing people and education, reports from local authorities on the grants spent last year bring forward several interesting projects. For example, several authorities commissioned theatre companies to tour local schools with productions aimed at teaching road safety through drama. Some north Wales authorities commissioned a production of a Welsh-language road safety play, involving a local company called Cwmni’r Frân Wen. The production toured Welsh-medium schools in Gwynedd, Ynys Môn and Conwy.

O ystyried y nod o ddylanwadu ar bobl ac addysg, mae adroddiadau awdurdodau lleol ar y grantiau a wariwyd y llynedd yn tynnu sylw at sawl prosiect diddorol. Er enghraifft, gwnaeth sawl awdurdod gomisiynu cwmnïau theatr i fynd â chynyrchiadau o gwmpas ysgolion lleol gyda’r amcan o ddysgu diogelwch ar y ffyrdd drwy ddrama. Rhoddodd rhai awdurdodau yn y Gogledd gomisiwn i gynhyrchu drama Gymraeg ynghylch diogelwch ar y ffyrdd, mewn cysylltiad â chwmni lleol o’r enw Cwmni’r Frân Wen. Aeth y cynhyrchiad o gwmpas ysgolion cyfrwng Cymraeg yng Ngwynedd, Ynys Môn a Chonwy.

This funding also means practical changes on the ground. All authorities have implemented engineering schemes that are helping to reduce casualties at sites with a history of collisions. Results are already proving the success of the schemes. Measures include improved pedestrian facilities, better lighting, traffic calming and new footways. Several local authorities have developed local publicity campaigns to target poor driving practice, such as use of mobile phones, drink-driving and driving while tired. Others have developed practical schemes to give pre-test driver training to young people in the 15-17 age group. Some authorities have implemented post-test driver training too.

Mae’r cyllid hwn yn golygu hefyd y ceir newidiadau ymarferol ar lawr gwlad. Mae’r holl awdurdodau wedi rhoi cynlluniau peirianegol ar waith sy’n helpu i ostwng nifer y damweiniau mewn safleoedd lle y bu nifer o wrthdrawiadau. Mae’r canlyniadau’n dangos eisoes fod y cynlluniau’n llwyddo. Rhai o’r mesurau yw gwell cyfleusterau i gerddwyr, gwell goleuo, tawelu traffig a throedffyrdd newydd. Mae sawl awdurdod lleol wedi datblygu ymgyrchoedd cyhoeddusrwydd lleol i dargedu arferion gyrru gwael, fel defnyddio ffonau symudol, yfed a gyrru a gyrru’n flinedig. Mae eraill wedi datblygu cynlluniau ymarferol i ddarparu hyfforddiant gyrru ar gyfer pobl ifanc yn y grŵp oedran 15-17 cyn iddynt sefyll prawf gyrru. Mae rhai awdurdodau wedi darparu hyfforddiant gyrru ar ôl y prawf hefyd.

Included in the special grant is continued funding for the 22 child pedestrian training co-ordinators employed by each local authority. These co-ordinators are helping to train and teach children the safe way to cross the road. It is interesting that we must do so today, as many young children are so used to getting into their family cars and being driven that they need this skill development. This initiative is already reaping results. I recently saw the training at first hand at a Cardiff school. It is evident that there can be no substitute for practical training at the kerbside for youngsters. Currently, 5,000 children across Wales are benefiting from this type of training. I commend the report to you and ask for your confirmation that we should again support initiatives that will improve road safety in our local communities.

Mae’r grant arbennig yn cynnwys estyniad yn y cyllid ar gyfer y 22 o gydlynwyr hyfforddi cerddwyr o blant a gyflogir gan bob awdurdod lleol. Mae’r cydlynwyr hyn yn helpu i hyfforddi a dysgu plant sut i groesi’r ffordd yn ddiogel. Mae’n ddiddorol bod rhaid inni wneud hyn heddiw, gan fod cynifer o blant ifanc wedi arfer cymaint â chael eu gyrru o le i le yng nghar y teulu fel bod arnynt angen datblygu’r sgil hwn. Mae’r fenter hon yn dwyn ffrwyth eisoes. Gwelais yr hyfforddiant fy hun mewn ysgol yng Nghaerdydd yn ddiweddar. Mae’n amlwg nad oes dim gwell na hyfforddiant ymarferol ar fin y ffordd ar gyfer pobl ifanc. Ar hyn o bryd, mae 5,000 o blant ledled Cymru’n elwa ar hyfforddiant o’r fath. Cymeradwyaf yr adroddiad i chi a gofynnaf am gadarnhad gennych y dylem unwaith eto gynorthwyo mentrau a fydd yn hyrwyddo diogelwch ar y ffyrdd yn ein cymunedau lleol.

Janet Davies spoken in English p. 48

Janet Davies siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 48

Plaid Cymru supports expenditure to make roads safer, as I think everyone in the Chamber does. Road deaths and injuries are awful tragedies; we must do all we can to prevent them.

Mae Plaid Cymru yn cefnogi gwariant i wneud ffyrdd yn ddiogelach, fel y mae pawb yn y Siambr, yr wyf yn credu. Mae marwolaethau ac anafiadau ar ffyrdd yn drychinebau ofnadwy; rhaid inni wneud popeth yn ein gallu i’w hatal.

I point out that this is not new money: it is already part of the budget. The report states that monitoring will ensure that the money is spent on its intended purpose. Will the Minister comment on whether that monitoring will consider best practice and value? It is important that authorities learn from each other.

Tynnaf sylw at y ffaith nad arian newydd yw hwn: mae eisoes yn rhan o’r gyllideb. Dywed yr adroddiad y bydd monitro’n fodd i sicrhau y caiff yr arian ei wario i’r diben a fwriadwyd. A wnaiff y Gweinidog sylw ynghylch a fydd y monitro hwnnw’n ystyried yr arferion a’r gwerth gorau? Mae’n bwysig i awdurdodau ddysgu oddi wrth ei gilydd.

The method of allocating the money to local authorities was agreed with the Welsh Local Government Association: £30,000 to each authority for a co-ordinator; and a minimum of 2.5 per cent of the grant to each authority, 50 per cent of which is per head of population and 50 per cent on the number of non-pedestrian casualties on non-trunk roads, as stated in appendix B. Did any discussion take place on other criteria, in public or in private? Was the voluntary sector involved? Was there any disagreement over these criteria? Is the Minister convinced that these are the best criteria, or is it possible to improve the scheme?

Cytunwyd ar y dull o ddyrannu’r arian i awdurdodau lleol gyda Chymdeithas Llywodraeth Leol Cymru: £30,000 i bob awdurdod ar gyfer cydlynydd; ac o leiaf 2.5 y cant o’r grant i bob awdurdod, y mae 50 y cant ohono ar gyfer pob pen o’r boblogaeth a 50 y cant ar gyfer nifer y rhai nad ydynt yn gerddwyr a gaiff eu hanafu ar ffyrdd heblaw cefnffyrdd, fel y dywedir yn atodiad B. A fu unrhyw drafodaeth ar feini prawf eraill, yn gyhoeddus neu’n breifat? A oedd y sector gwirfoddol yn gysylltiedig? A fu unrhyw anghytuno ynghylch y meini prawf hyn? A argyhoeddwyd y Gweinidog mai’r rhain yw’r meini prawf gorau, neu a oes modd gwella’r cynllun?

Brian Gibbons spoken in English p. 49

Brian Gibbons siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 49

I welcome this special report, not least because the road safety strategy was launched in my constituency, in the Dalton Road Community Centre in Sandfields. It was appropriate that the scheme was launched in a community such as Neath Port Talbot, particularly by an Assembly Government that is committed to tackling inequalities in health. The differential in health experience is probably at its greatest in relation to accidents. The differential between social class 1 and social class 5 is horrific. While some improvement has occurred over the years, the rate of improvement in social class 1 is considerably greater than in social class 5. Not only are people who live in socially deprived communities more at risk of accidents, but the severity of the illnesses and accidents that they succumb to is also greater. It is not only a matter of frequency, but also of severity. I welcome the targets in the road safety strategy—a 40 per cent reduction in accidents involving adults, and a 50 per cent reduction in accidents involving young people by 2010.

Croesawaf yr adroddiad arbennig hwn, yn anad dim am mai yn fy etholaeth i, yng Nghanolfan Gymunedol Dalton Road yn Sandfields, y lansiwyd y strategaeth diogelwch ar y ffyrdd. Yr oedd yn briodol lansio’r cynllun mewn cymuned fel Castell-nedd Port Talbot, yn enwedig gan Lywodraeth Cynulliad sydd wedi ymrwymo i fynd i’r afael ag anghydraddoldebau mewn iechyd. Mae’n debyg mai mewn perthynas â damweiniau y mae’r gwahaniaeth mwyaf o ran yr iechyd a brofir. Mae’r gwahaniaeth rhwng dosbarth cymdeithasol 1 a dosbarth cymdeithasol 5 yn arswydus. Er y bu rhywfaint o welliant dros y blynyddoedd, mae cyfradd y gwelliant yn nosbarth cymdeithasol 1 yn fwy o lawer nag yn nosbarth cymdeithasol 5. Mae’r rhai sy’n byw mewn cymunedau cymdeithasol ddifreintiedig nid yn unig mewn mwy o berygl o gael damwain, ond mae’r anhwylderau a’r damweiniau a brofant yn fwy difrifol hefyd. Nid amlder yn unig sydd dan sylw, ond difrifoldeb hefyd. Croesawaf y targedau yn y strategaeth diogelwch ar y ffyrdd—gostyngiad o 40 y cant yn y damweiniau sy’n gysylltiedig ag oedolion, a gostyngiad o 50 y cant yn y damweiniau sy’n gysylltiedig â phobl ifanc erbyn 2010.

Like Janet, I would also like to know, in addressing such gross inequality in health experience, are the criteria we are using the best ones to target the money most appropriately? If I have read the supporting documentation properly, one criterion is that 50 per cent of the allocation is given per head of population, and the other 50 per cent on the number of non-pedestrian accidents. I do not have the information to hand, but it seems to me that one reason that such a social class gradient in accidents and injuries exists is pedestrian activity. Too many young people and children are being injured on the street, not in vehicles. Is there a better way of allocating this money because of that particular effect?

Fel Janet, carwn innau wybod ai’r meini prawf a ddefnyddiwn, wrth fynd i’r afael â’r fath anghydraddoldeb dybryd yn yr iechyd a brofir, yw’r rhai gorau i dargedu’r arian yn fwyaf priodol? Os wyf wedi deall y ddogfennaeth yn iawn, un maen prawf yw y rhoddir 50 y cant o’r dyraniad ar gyfer pob pen o’r boblogaeth, a’r 50 y cant arall ar gyfer y nifer o ddamweiniau nad ydynt yn ymwneud â cherddwyr. Nid yw’r wybodaeth wrth law gennyf, ond ymddengys i mi mai un rheswm dros y fath wahaniaeth rhwng dosbarthiadau cymdeithasol o ran damweiniau ac anafiadau yw gweithgaredd cerddwyr. Anafir gormod o blant a phobl ifanc ar y stryd, nid mewn cerbydau. A oes modd gwell o ddyrannu’r arian hwn oherwydd yr effaith benodol honno?

David Davies spoken in English p. 50

David Davies siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 50

The fundamental question is whether this £12 million will be ring-fenced. Is there any way that local authorities can spend the money allocated to them on measures other than those described here? If that is the case, this debate is a waste of time. If it is not—and I would welcome the Minister’s clarification—I am delighted to welcome this scheme.

Y cwestiwn sylfaenol yw a glustnodir y £12 miliwn hwn. A oes unrhyw fodd i awdurdodau lleol wario’r arian a ddyrannwyd iddynt ar fesurau heblaw’r rhai a ddisgrifir yma? Os felly, mae’r ddadl hon yn wastraff amser. Os nad yw—a byddwn yn croesawu eglurhad gan y Gweinidog—yr wyf yn falch iawn o groesawu’r cynllun hwn.

However, simply giving money to local authorities is not enough, not least because many of the roads where accidents occur come under the Assembly’s remit. I have always found the Assembly’s transport department to be good about visiting sites. But much more needs to be achieved in many areas. I cite the Dixton Road roundabout in Monmouth, not only because I represent the area, but also because it was recently listed as one of the most dangerous roads in the whole of the UK. No amount of money to the local authority would improve such a road. Given that it is an Assembly road, the National Assembly for Wales transport department would have to deal with that. I look forward to continuing co-operation with the department and the Minister and I would appreciate clarification on whether or not that money could be spent for any other purpose.

Fodd bynnag, nid yw rhoi arian i awdurdodau lleol yn ddigon ar ei ben ei hun, a hynny’n anad dim am fod y Cynulliad yn gyfrifol am lawer o’r ffyrdd lle y mae damweiniau’n digwydd. Yr wyf wedi cael erioed fod adran drafnidiaeth y Cynulliad yn dda o ran ymweld â safleoedd. Ond mae angen cyflawni mwy o lawer mewn llawer o ardaloedd. Cyfeiriaf at gylchfan Dixton Road yn Nhrefynwy, nid yn unig am fy mod yn cynrychioli’r ardal, ond hefyd am ei fod wedi’i rhestru’n ddiweddar ymhlith y ffyrdd mwyaf peryglus yn y DU gyfan. Ni fyddai unrhyw swm o arian i’r awdurdod lleol yn ddigon i wella ffordd o’r fath. Gan mai un o ffyrdd y Cynulliad yw, adran drafnidiaeth Cynulliad Cenedlaethol Cymru fyddai’n gorfod ymdrin â hynny. Edrychaf ymlaen at gael parhau i gydweithredu â’r adran a’r Gweinidog a byddwn yn gwerthfawrogi eglurhad ynghylch a ellid gwario’r arian hwnnw i unrhyw ddiben arall ai peidio.

Eleanor Burnham spoken in English p. 50

Eleanor Burnham siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 50

I also welcome this grant of almost £7 million for improving road safety. The £30,000 for child pedestrian training co-ordinators alone that each local authority will receive is a positive development from last year’s special grant report. Teaching youngsters to drive is innovative and essential to help raise awareness of how hazardous driving can be. In 2001, 187 people were killed on Welsh roads—one person per every second day. The Assembly does not have the power to reduce speed limits. A Welsh Parliament, which the Liberal Democrats favour, would have that power. We believe in following Holland’s example, where there are ‘home zones’ for residential areas. In such zones, traffic is limited to 10 mph to 20 mph, with pedestrians and cyclists taking legal priority over motorists. Holland has a programme to introduce home zones to all residential areas by 2006 because they are effective in terms of reducing road casualties, particularly among child pedestrians. Reduced speed in residential areas gives a greater feeling of safety and further encourages people to cycle and walk.

Yr wyf innau’n croesawu’r grant hwn o ymron i £7 miliwn ar gyfer hybu diogelwch ar y ffyrdd. Mae’r £30,000 ar gyfer cydlynwyr hyfforddi cerddwyr sy’n blant a gaiff pob awdurdod lleol yn ddatblygiad cadarnhaol o’r adroddiad grant arbennig y llynedd. Mae dysgu pobl ifanc i yrru’n gam arloesol ac yn hollbwysig er mwyn hybu ymwybyddiaeth o’r peryglon posibl wrth yrru. Yn 2001, lladdwyd 187 o bobl ar ffyrdd Cymru—un person bob yn eilddydd. Nid yw’r Cynulliad yn meddu ar y pŵer i ostwng cyfyngiadau cyflymder. Byddai Senedd Gymreig, a ffafrir gan y Democratiaid Rhyddfrydol, yn meddu ar y pŵer hwnnw. Credwn y dylid dilyn esiampl yr Iseldiroedd, lle y mae ‘parthau cartref’ ar gyfer ardaloedd preswyl. Mewn parthau o’r fath, cyfyngir traffig i 10 i 20 milltir yr awr, a chaiff cerddwyr a beicwyr flaenoriaeth dros fodurwyr. Mae gan yr Iseldiroedd raglen ar gyfer cyflwyno parthau cartref ym mhob ardal breswyl erbyn 2006 gan eu bod yn effeithiol o ran gostwng y nifer a gaiff ei hanafu ar y ffyrdd, yn enwedig cerddwyr sy’n blant. Mae cyflymder is mewn ardaloedd preswyl yn rhoi mwy o ymdeimlad o ddiogelwch ac yn rhoi cymhelliad pellach i bobl seiclo a cherdded.

David Melding spoken in English p. 51

David Melding siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 51

Like other Members, I welcome the measures before us, and hope that they will be used effectively by local authorities. However, as the Liberal Democrat Member just mentioned, there is one factor, above all others, which causes road fatalities, almost always including pedestrians, namely speed. It is simple: if you are hit by a car travelling at 20 mph, you will probably survive and avoid serious injury; if you are hit by a car travelling at 30 mph, your chances of surviving are 50:50; if you are hit by a car travelling at 40 mph, you will probably die. We have made a great deal of progress over the last 10-20 years in terms of reducing the number of deaths on the roads, but we have now hit a plateau. We are no longer making progress because we will not grasp the nettle of reducing urban speed limits. There should be a maximum speed limit in urban areas of 20 mph.

Fel Aelodau eraill, croesawaf y mesurau sydd ger ein bron, a gobeithiaf y cânt eu defnyddio’n effeithiol gan awdurdodau lleol. Fodd bynnag, fel y mae’r Aelod Democratiaid Rhyddfrydol newydd ei ddweud, mae un ffactor, uwchlaw pob un arall, sy’n achosi marwolaethau ar y ffyrdd, sydd bron bob amser yn cynnwys cerddwyr, sef cyflymder. Mae’n syml: os cewch eich taro gan gar sy’n teithio ar 20 mya, yr ydych yn debygol o oroesi ac osgoi cael eich anafu’n ddifrifol; os cewch eich taro gan gar sy’n teithio ar 30 mya, mae gennych siawns teg o oroesi; os cewch eich taro gan gar sy’n teithio ar 40 mya, mae’n debyg y byddwch yn marw. Gwnaethom lawer iawn o gynnydd dros yr 10 i 20 mlynedd diwethaf o ran gostwng y nifer o farwolaethau ar y ffyrdd, ond bellach yr ydym yn sefyll yn ein hunfan. Nid ydym yn gwneud cynnydd bellach am na wnawn wasgu’r danadl o ostwng cyfyngiadau cyflymder trefol. Dylid cael cyfyngiad cyflymder uchaf o 20 mya mewn ardaloedd trefol.

Karen Sinclair spoken in English p. 51

Karen Sinclair siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 51

David Davies has highlighted problems with trunk roads. I reiterate that safety is an issue on trunk roads because they run through our rural villages. There are many small villages with trunk roads are in my constituency. What will Sue Essex do to make these communities safer?

Mae David Davies wedi tynnu sylw at broblemau o ran cefnffyrdd. Ategaf fod diogelwch yn fater pwysig ar gefnffyrdd am eu bod yn rhedeg drwy ein pentrefi gwledig. Mae llawer o bentrefi bach â chefnffyrdd yn rhedeg drwyddynt yn fy etholaeth i. Beth a wnaiff Sue Essex i wneud y cymunedau hyn yn fwy diogel?

John Griffiths spoken in English p. 52

John Griffiths siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 52

This is important and the announcement is welcome. I congratulate Sue. I know that she recognises the public’s concern about road safety, and rightly so. I support Brian Gibbons in highlighting the disproportionate danger posed by traffic in more deprived areas. In Newport East, there have been too many road traffic accidents in deprived urban areas, for example, on roads around council estates. All of us realise how easy—

Mae hyn yn bwysig ac mae’r cyhoeddiad i’w groesawu. Llongyfarchaf Sue. Gwn ei bod yn cydnabod y pryder ymysg y cyhoedd ynghylch diogelwch ar y ffyrdd, ac mae hynny’n briodol. Ategaf yr hyn a ddywedodd Brian Gibbons wrth dynnu sylw at y perygl anghymesur oherwydd traffig mewn ardaloedd mwy difreintiedig. Yn Nwyrain Casnewydd, bu gormod o ddamweiniau traffig ffyrdd mewn ardaloedd trefol difreintiedig, er enghraifft, ar ffyrdd drwy ystadau cyngor. Yr ydym oll yn sylweddoli mor hawdd—

Christine Chapman spoken in English p. 52

Christine Chapman siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 52

Do you share my concerns about young drivers, and boys in particular? Would you support any studies that the Assembly could undertake on road traffic accidents? I am concerned about young male drivers because there have been too many fatal accidents in the Valleys involving this group. I should declare an interest because my son has just passed his driving test.

A rannwch fy mhryderon ynghylch gyrwyr ifanc, a bechgyn yn enwedig? A fyddech yn cefnogi unrhyw astudiaethau y gallai’r Cynulliad eu cynnal ynghylch damweiniau traffig ar y ffyrdd? Yr wyf yn bryderus ynghylch dynion ifanc sy’n gyrru gan y bu gormod o ddamweiniau angheuol yn y Cymoedd sy’n gysylltiedig â’r grŵp hwn. Dylwn ddatgan buddiant gan fod fy mab newydd lwyddo yn ei brawf gyrru.

John Griffiths spoken in English p. 52

John Griffiths siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 52

I agree with your points, Christine. Certainly some young male drivers tend to drive too quickly. It is a matter of education. We should be going to schools, highlighting the dangers and risks associated with driving and the sensible ways in which people should drive what can be deadly weapons.

Cytunaf â’r pwyntiau a wnaethoch, Christine. Yn sicr, mae rhai dynion ifanc sy’n gyrru yn tueddu i fynd yn rhy gyflym. Mater o addysg yw. Dylem fod yn mynd i ysgolion, gan dynnu sylw at y peryglon a’r risgiau sy’n gysylltiedig â gyrru ac at ddulliau synhwyrol o yrru’r hyn a all fod yn arfau angheuol.

On the disproportionate danger in urban areas, it is all too easy to realise how these accidents happen on roads around council estates, for example, where vehicles are parked on both sides of the road while children play football and other games. If children run out onto the road from between parked vehicles it gives drivers little time to stop. That is why I support the points that David Melding made; petitions are circulating in Newport East calling for lower speed limits, given the dangers involved. On inner urban roads, 15 mph or 20 mph should be the greatest speeds allowed and we should make that a priority.

Ynghylch y perygl anghymesur mewn ardaloedd trefol, digon hawdd yw gweld sut y mae’r damweiniau hyn yn digwydd ar ffyrdd drwy ystadau cyngor, er enghraifft, lle y mae cerbydau wedi’u parcio ar ddwy ochr y ffordd tra bo plant yn chwarae pêl-droed a gemau eraill. Os yw plant yn rhedeg allan i’r ffordd rhwng cerbydau sydd wedi’u parcio, ychydig o amser sydd gan yrwyr i stopio. Dyna pam y cefnogaf y pwyntiau a wnaeth David Melding; mae deisebau’n cael eu cylchredeg yn Nwyrain Casnewydd sy’n galw am gyfyngiadau cyflymder is, yng ngolwg y peryglon sy’n gysylltiedig â hyn. Ar ffyrdd trefol mewnol, 15 mya neu 20 mya yw’r cyflymderau uchaf y dylid eu caniatáu a dylem roi blaenoriaeth i hynny.

Rosemary Butler spoken in English p. 52

Rosemary Butler siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 52

Like others, I welcome this allocation today. Safer streets is an issue that rings a bell with everyone that you speak to when you are out in Newport. The Safe Routes to School money for Duffryn High School and the surrounding area was well received. The Minister talked about education initiatives and I assume that these are for children. We should consider educating parents about how they should drive to school, as they currently double or triple park and let their children out of the car into the middle of the road instead of onto the pavement. People break the current 30 mph speed limit, let alone a 20 mph limit. I have been a governor for many schools and we have spent an inordinate amount of time talking about transport to school—the school bus not turning up, somebody falling off it and, more often than not, double parking by parents. Is there anything that we can do? Can we get governors to try to ensure that parents drive responsibly as part of their annual report? I wonder whether the money that we are spending on road safety for children—although it is welcome—might not be better spent giving free transport to children to school so that they can get on the bus and be dropped off safely.

Yr wyf i, fel eraill, yn croesawu’r dyraniad hwn heddiw. Mae strydoedd diogelach yn fater sy’n taro tant gyda phawb y siaradwch â hwy pan ydych allan yng Nghasnewydd. Bu croeso mawr i’r arian Llwybrau Diogel i’r Ysgol ar gyfer Ysgol Uwchradd Duffryn a’r cyffiniau. Soniodd y Gweinidog am fentrau addysg a chymeraf fod y rhain ar gyfer plant. Dylem ystyried addysgu rhieni ynghylch y modd y dylent yrru i’r ysgol, gan eu bod yn parcio’n ddwbl ac yn drebl ar hyn o bryd ac yn gollwng eu plant o’r car ar ganol y ffordd yn hytrach nag ar y palmant. Mae pobl yn torri’r cyfyngiad cyflymder presennol o 30 mya, heb sôn am gyfyngiad o 20 mya. Bûm yn llywodraethwr mewn sawl ysgol a threuliasom lawer gormod o amser yn sôn am gludiant i’r ysgol—y bws yn peidio â dod, rhywun yn syrthio oddi arno ac, yn amlach na pheidio, rhieni’n parcio’n ddwbl. A oes rhywbeth y gallwn ei wneud? A allwn gael llywodraethwyr i geisio sicrhau bod rhieni’n gyrru’n gyfrifol fel rhan o’u hadroddiad blynyddol? Yr wyf yn meddwl tybed ai gwell fyddai gwario’r arian a wariwn ar ddiogelwch ar y ffyrdd ar gyfer plant—er y’i croesewir—ar ddarparu cludiant am ddim i’r ysgol ar gyfer plant fel y gallant fynd ar y bws a chael eu gollwng yn ddiogel.

Alun Pugh siaradwyd yn Gymraeg ac yn Saesneg t. 53

Alun Pugh spoken in Welsh and English p. 53

Yr wyf yn hapus y gallaf gyfrannu i’r ddadl bwysig hon. Mae problem ddifrifol yn fy etholaeth ynglŷn â cheir sy’n gyrru yn rhy gyflym drwy bentrefi gwledig. Yr wyf am gondemnio hysbysebion sy’n annog pobl i yrru’n beryglus ar ffyrdd y Gogledd.

in Welsh I am pleased to be able to contribute to this important debate. There is a serious problem concerning cars that are driven too quickly through the rural villages of my constituency. I wish to condemn adverts that encourage people to drive dangerously on the roads of north Wales.

I do not support everything that the chief constable of North Wales Police does but he deserves our absolute support in the Arrive Alive campaign. David Melding is right: speed kills and high profile policing of roads, aided by cameras, undoubtedly saves lives on Welsh roads. Unfortunately, not everyone is committed to reducing road deaths. Today, I have referred an advertisement for the Maserati company to the advertising standards authority. It is utterly irresponsible to encourage people to drive like there is no tomorrow on the roads of Snowdonia and the rest of north Wales in vehicles that are capable of over 150 mph. Many of my constituents live in fear of the motorists who drive at high speeds through rural villages and advertisements that encourage illegal and irresponsible driving deserve nothing but our contempt.

yn Saesneg Ni chefnogaf bopeth a wnaiff prif gwnstabl Heddlu Gogledd Cymru ond mae’n haeddu cefnogaeth lwyr gennym yn yr ymgyrch Siwrne Saff. Mae David Melding yn iawn: mae cyflymder yn lladd ac mae plismona amlwg ar ffyrdd, gyda chymorth camerâu, yn sicr yn achub bywydau ar ffyrdd Cymru. Gwaetha’r modd, nid yw pawb wedi ymrwymo i ostwng nifer y marwolaethau ar ffyrdd. Heddiw, cyfeiriais hysbyseb ar gyfer cwmni Maserati i’r awdurdod safonau hysbysebu. Mae’n gwbl anghyfrifol annog pobl i yrru’n ddi-hid ar ffyrdd Eryri a gweddill gogledd Cymru mewn cerbydau sy’n gallu mynd yn gynt na 150 mya. Mae llawer o’m hetholwyr yn byw ag ofn y modurwyr sy’n gyrru’n gyflym iawn drwy bentrefi gwledig ac nid yw hysbysebion sy’n annog gyrru anghyfreithlon ac anghyfrifol yn haeddu dim ond ein dirmyg.

Lorraine Barrett spoken in English p. 54

Lorraine Barrett siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 54

Minister, I welcome the announcement of this special grant. It is poignant that we are discussing this today. Without going into detail, you will know that there was a fatal accident in St Mellons about two weeks ago, which involved a young girl alighting from a school bus. Could this grant money be used for a school bus project, such as installing flashing lights on school buses to show that pupils are alighting? Residents in the St Mellons area have raised this with me.

Weinidog, croesawaf gyhoeddi’r grant arbennig hwn. Mae’r ffaith ein bod yn trafod hyn heddiw yn peri dwysdeimlad. Heb fynd i fanylion, gwyddoch fod damwain angheuol yn Llaneirwg tua phythefnos yn ôl, mewn cysylltiad â merch ifanc a oedd yn disgyn o fws ysgol. A ellid defnyddio’r arian grant hwn ar gyfer prosiect bysiau ysgol, megis gosod goleuadau sy’n fflachio ar fysiau ysgol i ddangos bod disgyblion yn disgyn ohonynt? Trigolion yn ardal Llaneirwg a gododd y mater hwn gyda mi.

Kirsty Williams spoken in English p. 54

Kirsty Williams siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 54

I welcome this debate, as I have heard too many excuses from Cardiff County Council that it cannot install 20 mph speed limits outside some of its primary schools due to a lack of resources. I have been particularly struck by the comments made by Alun Pugh and Karen Sinclair, because many fatal accidents have been suffered on the roads of my constituency as the A483 and the A470 run its entire length. I am interested to hear what Sue Essex feels can be done by the National Assembly, the trunk road agency, in relation to the stretch of the A470 that runs between Llyswen and Builth Wells. Two weeks ago another three young men lost their lives on that particular stretch of road. In the last month, that stretch of road has seen five fatalities. Finally, Members have talked about speeding drivers. My constituents are particularly terrorised by speeding motorcyclists, who use my constituency as a weekend play park. They are frightening for many people who use the roads in that area. Although there are many sensible motorcyclists, many people in my constituency are plagued by those who use my constituency as the Welsh equivalent of Brands Hatch.

Croesawaf y ddadl hon, gan fy mod wedi clywed gormod o esgusion gan Gyngor Sir Caerdydd i’r perwyl ei fod yn methu â gosod cyfyngiadau cyflymder 20 mya y tu allan i rai o’i ysgolion cynradd oherwydd diffyg adnoddau. Fe’m trawyd yn arbennig gan y sylwadau a wnaed gan Alun Pugh a Karen Sinclair, oherwydd bu llawer o ddamweiniau angheuol ar ffyrdd fy etholaeth gan fod yr A483 a’r A470 yn rhedeg drwyddi o’r naill ben i’r llall. Bydd o ddiddordeb imi glywed beth y teimla Sue Essex y gall y Cynulliad Cenedlaethol, yr asiantaeth cefnffyrdd, ei wneud mewn cysylltiad â’r rhan o’r A470 sy’n rhedeg rhwng Llyswen a Llanfair ym Muallt. Bythefnos yn ôl, collodd tri dyn ifanc arall eu bywydau ar y rhan benodol honno o’r ffordd. Yn y mis diwethaf, bu pum marwolaeth ar y rhan honno o’r ffordd. Yn olaf, bu i Aelodau sôn am yrwyr sy’n goryrru. Mae fy etholwyr yn cael eu dychryn yn benodol gan yrwyr beiciau modur sy’n goryrru, sy’n defnyddio fy etholaeth fel maes chwarae ar y penwythnos. Maent yn dychryn llawer o bobl sy’n defnyddio’r ffyrdd yn yr ardal honno. Er bod llawer o yrwyr beiciau modur synhwyrol, mae llawer yn fy etholaeth yn cael eu plagio gan rai sy’n defnyddio fy etholaeth fel yr hyn sy’n cyfateb i Brands Hatch yng Nghymru.

Sue Essex The Minister for Environment spoken in English p. 54

Sue Essex Y Gweinidog dros yr Amgylchedd siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 54

Many points have been made and I thank everyone for their contributions. I could not understand Janet’s point about the funding not being new money. It is new funding for 2003: it was included in Edwina’s budget. It follows on from the successful use of the budget in previous years.

Gwnaed llawer o bwyntiau a diolchaf i bawb am eu cyfraniadau. Ni allwn ddeall y pwynt a wnaeth Janet i’r perwyl nad yw’r cyllid yn arian newydd. Mae’n gyllid newydd ar gyfer 2003: fe’i cynhwyswyd yng nghyllideb Edwina. Mae’n dilyn y defnydd llwyddiannus o’r gyllideb mewn blynyddoedd blaenorol.

On Janet’s point about the allocation formula, and the point that Brian made, I have not received any complaints yet from the voluntary sector. Many of the initiatives in which local authorities are involved include the voluntary sector. The Assembly works closely with the Royal Society for the Prevention of Accidents and other safety organisations. However, I will consider your point to find out whether there is an issue there.

Ynghylch y pwynt a wnaeth Janet am y fformiwla ddyrannu, a’r pwynt a wnaeth Brian, nid wyf wedi derbyn unrhyw gwynion hyd yn hyn oddi wrth y sector gwirfoddol. Mae llawer o’r mentrau y mae awdurdodau lleol yn cymryd rhan ynddynt yn cynnwys y sector gwirfoddol. Mae’r Cynulliad yn cydweithio’n agos â’r Gymdeithas Frenhinol er Atal Damweiniau a chyrff diogelwch eraill. Fodd bynnag, gwnaf ystyried y pwynt a wnaethoch i ddarganfod a oes mater yn codi yn hynny o beth.

I agree entirely with Brian: we must consider where the bulk of accidents occur. We have been increasingly considering that and the focus of concerns, particularly regarding young children in urban communities. In Valleys communities, the roads are narrow, there is on-street parking, houses are close to the road and there is not much private or public play space. You can see all the inherent dangers that are there. It is right that we must consider those concentrations and work on them.

Cytunaf yn llwyr â Brian: rhaid inni ystyried lle y mae’r rhan fwyaf o ddamweiniau’n digwydd. Yr ydym yn ystyried hynny fwyfwy ac ym mhle y dylid rhoi’r sylw mwyaf, yn enwedig mewn cysylltiad â phlant ifanc mewn cymunedau trefol. Yng nghymunedau’r Cymoedd, mae’r ffyrdd yn gul, ceir parcio ar y stryd, mae tai’n agos i’r ffordd ac nid oes llawer o fannau chwarae preifat neu gyhoeddus. Gallwch weld yr holl beryglon sydd ynglŷn â hynny. Mae’n briodol inni ystyried y crynoadau hynny a gweithio arnynt.

On David Davies’s point, the funding is ring-fenced as it is a special grant. Ministers bring forward special grants because the funding will be given to local authorities for a special purpose. We monitor the expenditure, ask for feedback and consider its progress. Many of the examples that I gave have come from feedback that we have received.

Ynghylch y pwynt a wnaeth David Davies, mae’r cyllid wedi’i glustnodi gan ei fod yn grant arbennig. Mae Gweinidogion yn rhoi grantiau arbennig gerbron gan y caiff y cyllid ei roi i awdurdodau lleol i ddiben arbennig. Yr ydym yn monitro’r gwariant, yn gofyn am adborth ac yn ystyried ei gynnydd. Mae llawer o’r enghreifftiau a roddais yn dod o’r adborth a gawsom.

In terms of David’s wider point on expenditure on trunk roads, which fall outside the grant, I have worked with him in his constituency and we have introduced reduced speed limits in Llanover and Pandy and held on-site meetings there. We are continuing to consider Dixton Road roundabout and the safety record has improved following the work there. However, I guarantee that we will continue to consider that issue to see how it progresses and whether we need to take further action. Funding for that will come from our trunk road safety grant. That grant is for roads that are the responsibility of local authorities and the Assembly.

O ran y pwynt mwy cyffredinol a wnaeth David am wariant ar gefnffyrdd, sydd y tu allan i gwmpas y grant, yr wyf wedi gweithio gydag ef yn ei etholaeth ac yr ydym wedi cyflwyno gostyngiad yn y cyfyngiadau cyflymder yn Llanofer a Phandy ac wedi cynnal cyfarfodydd ar y safle yno. Yr ydym yn dal i ystyried cylchfan Dixton Road ac mae’r record diogelwch wedi gwella ar ôl y gwaith a wnaed yno. Er hynny, rhoddaf sicrwydd y byddwn yn parhau i ystyried y mater hwnnw i weld sut yr aiff yn ei flaen ac a oes angen inni gymryd camau pellach. Daw cyllid ar gyfer hynny o’n grant diogelwch cefnffyrdd. Mae’r grant hwnnw ar gyfer ffyrdd sy’n gyfrifoldeb i awdurdodau lleol a’r Cynulliad.

On Karen’s point about trunk roads and the communities that live on those roads across Wales, I am pleased that, since the Assembly has been established, we have introduced the trunk road programme: the rural towns and villages initiative on which we have already spent around £3.5 million. In 2000, the initiative was piloted in a few areas, which gave us good results. Since then, we have had a rolling programme and around 140 schemes across Wales have been tackled. We are keeping that up every year to ensure that we deal with the major problem points across Wales. As part of that, we are considering speed limits, safety on footpaths and lighting, because it can be hell for the many communities that live near busy trunk roads in Wales; I appreciate that. That is especially true for families with young children. We introduced that new initiative and it is showing its value.

Ynghylch y pwynt a wnaeth Karen am gefnffyrdd a’r cymunedau sy’n byw oddeutu’r ffyrdd hyn ledled Cymru, yr wyf yn falch ein bod, ers sefydlu’r Cynulliad, wedi cyflwyno’r rhaglen cefnffyrdd: y fenter trefi a phentrefi gwledig yr ydym eisoes wedi gwario tua £3.5 miliwn arni. Yn 2000, rhagbrofwyd y fenter mewn ychydig o ardaloedd, a chawsom ganlyniadau da o hynny. Ers hynny, bu gennym raglen dreiglol a rhoddwyd cynnig ar tua 140 o gynlluniau ledled Cymru. Yr ydym yn dal ymlaen â hynny bob blwyddyn i sicrhau ein bod yn delio â’r mannau lle y ceir y problemau mwyaf ledled Cymru. Fel rhan o hynny, yr ydym yn ystyried cyfyngiadau cyflymder, diogelwch ar droedffyrdd a goleuadau, oherwydd gall fod yn uffern ar y ddaear i’r nifer fawr o gymunedau sy’n byw ger cefnffyrdd prysur yng Nghymru; yr wyf yn sylweddoli hynny. Mae hynny’n arbennig o wir am deuluoedd sydd â phlant ifanc. Bu inni gyflwyno’r fenter newydd honno ac mae’n profi ei gwerth.

On residential areas, and the point made by David Melding and Eleanor Burnham on the Dutch example, I have always stressed that I consider road safety to be a priority. It is about having appropriate speed limits for different areas and circumstances. We have highlighted that message. If you recall, I was with Lorraine in Penarth considering 20 mph zones, using the extra safety grant and saying to local authorities that 20 mph should generally be the maximum speed in residential areas. David made the valid point that a difference of 10 mph in the speed limit can mean the difference between life and death for someone hit by a vehicle. Those figures are dramatic. You cannot draw a ring around an urban area. For example, if you drew a ring around Cardiff, you could possibly have the motorway as part of that ring—you would certainly have the inner relief road—and a 20 mph speed limit would not be the answer there. However, I am committed to pursuing this lower speed in residential areas and changing the nature of those areas. Eleanor mentioned Holland, which I know reasonably well. It is a place where people feel it is safe to walk and cycle. That is the change that takes place, whereby the car becomes secondary. I am keen on following the Dutch example; there have been some terrific developments there.

Ynghylch ardaloedd preswyl, a’r pwynt a wnaeth David Melding ac Eleanor Burnham am yr esiampl yn yr Iseldiroedd, yr wyf wedi pwysleisio erioed fy mod yn ystyried diogelwch ar y ffyrdd yn flaenoriaeth. Mae’n golygu cael cyfyngiadau cyflymder priodol ar gyfer gwahanol ardaloedd ac amgylchiadau. Yr ydym wedi rhoi pwys ar y neges honno. Os cofiwch, bûm gyda Lorraine ym Mhenarth yn ystyried parthau 20 mya, yn defnyddio’r grant diogelwch ychwanegol ac yn dweud wrth awdurdodau lleol mai 20 mya yw’r cyfyngiad cyflymder uchaf y dylid ei gael mewn ardaloedd preswyl. Gwnaeth David bwynt dilys i’r perwyl y gall y gwahaniaeth o 10 mya yn y cyfyngiad cyflymder olygu’r gwahaniaeth rhwng byw a marw i rywun a drewir gan gerbyd. Mae’r ffigurau hynny’n drawiadol. Ni ellir tynnu cylch o gwmpas ardal drefol. Er enghraifft, pe tynnech gylch o gwmpas Caerdydd, gallech gael y draffordd yn rhan o’r cylch hwnnw—byddech yn sicr o gael y ffordd liniaru fewnol—ac nid cyfyngiad cyflymder o 20 mya fyddai’r ateb yn y fan honno. Er hynny, yr wyf wedi ymrwymo i geisio’r cyfyngiad cyflymder is hwnnw mewn ardaloedd preswyl ac i newid natur yr ardaloedd hynny. Cyfeiriodd Eleanor at yr Iseldiroedd, sy’n eithaf cyfarwydd i mi. Mae pobl yno’n teimlo ei bod yn ddiogel i gerdded a seiclo. Dyna’r newid a geir, fel y daw’r car yn eilbeth. Yr wyf yn awyddus i ddilyn esiampl yr Iseldiroedd; bu rhai datblygiadau gwych yno.

John reinforced the point that Brian made on concerns regarding deprived urban areas. He mentioned the issue of on-street parking on estates, which can obscure the view of drivers. If a person is driving at 20 mph and a child steps out from behind a parked a car, it is likely that the driver will be able to adjust and stop. However, if that person is driving at 30 mph or 40 mph, it is likely that that will not be the case.

Ategodd John y pwynt a wnaeth Brian ynghylch pryderon am ardaloedd trefol difreintiedig. Cyfeiriodd at fater y parcio ar strydoedd mewn ystadau, a all amharu ar y golwg sydd gan yrwyr. Os yw rhywun yn gyrru ar 20 mya ac mae plentyn yn camu o’r tu ôl i gar sydd wedi’i barcio, mae’n debygol y gall y gyrrwr ddygymod a stopio. Fodd bynnag, os yw’n gyrru ar 30 mya neu 40 mya, mae’n debygol na fydd yn gallu gwneud hynny.

On Rosemary’s point about spending the funding in other ways, we are always considering ways of making breakthroughs. I would not automatically support your idea of free transport to school. Bus safety is important: a tragic accident occurred recently. However, many children should be able to walk or cycle to school. Ensuring that that is possible is the best way forward. We must have a combination of policies depending on geography and location. I agree that it is about changing cultures. We can enforce low speed limits and zones in areas outside schools so that parents do not park their cars outside school gates. I sometimes think that people would drive through schools gates and into classrooms if they could. We are trying to change that culture.

Ynghylch y pwynt a wnaeth Rosemary am wario’r arian mewn ffyrdd eraill, yr ydym bob amser yn ystyried dulliau o arloesi. Ni fyddwn o reidrwydd yn cefnogi’ch syniad o gludiant am ddim i’r ysgol. Mae diogelwch bysiau’n bwysig: bu damwain drist yn ddiweddar. Fodd bynnag, dylai llawer o blant allu cerdded neu seiclo i’r ysgol. Sicrhau bod modd gwneud hynny yw’r ffordd orau ymlaen. Rhaid inni gael cyfuniad o bolisïau yn ôl daearyddiaeth a lleoliad. Cytunaf fod hyn yn golygu newid arferion. Gallwn orfodi cyfyngiadau a pharthau cyflymder isel y tu allan i ysgolion fel nad yw rhieni’n parcio eu ceir wrth gatiau’r ysgol. Byddaf yn meddwl weithiau y byddai pobl yn gyrru drwy gatiau ysgol ac i mewn i ystafelloedd dosbarth os gallent wneud hynny. Yr ydym yn ceisio newid yr arferion yn hyn o beth.

I accept Alun’s point on road adverts, the Arrive Alive scheme and the great deal of good work that is being done in north Wales. Many car adverts show a car being driven by a rather glamorous woman or man, going around a hairpin bend on an empty road with alpine scenery in the background. It looks cool, but we know that that is not the reality of driving for the most part. It gives the wrong impression that speed is no limit.

Yr wyf yn derbyn y pwynt a wnaeth Alun am hysbysebion ffyrdd, y cynllun Siwrne Saff a’r gwaith da a wneir yn y Gogledd. Mae llawer o hysbysebion ceir yn dangos car yn cael ei yrru gan fenyw neu ddyn trawiadol, ar fachdro ar ffordd wag a golygfa alpaidd yn gefndir. Ymddengys yn wych, ond gwyddom nad felly y mae gyrru gan mwyaf. Mae’n rhoi camargraff nad yw cyflymder yn gyfyngiad.

Alun Pugh spoken in English p. 57

Alun Pugh siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 57

I agree with your comments. I draw your attention to a specific advert for a Maserati car. The strapline says ‘drive like there is no tomorrow’, and the background is Snowdonia at 2 p.m. on a Sunday afternoon.

Cytunaf â’ch sylwadau. Tynnaf eich sylw at hysbyseb benodol ar gyfer car Maserati. Geiriau’r is-bennawd yw ‘gyrrwch fel pe na bai yfory’n bod’, a’r cefndir yw Eryri am 2 p.m. ar brynhawn Sul.

Sue Essex spoken in English p. 58

Sue Essex siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 58

If people drive like there is no tomorrow, there will be no tomorrow for some. I thank Alun for drawing attention to that. We will certainly follow that up with the company, as that is not the vision of Snowdonia that we want to portray. We want to get people out walking, climbing and using trains and so on.

Os yw pobl yn gyrru fel pe na bai yfory’n bod, ni fydd yfory i rai. Diolchaf i Alun am dynnu sylw at hynny. Gwnawn godi hynny gyda’r cwmni’n sicr, gan nad honno yw’r ddelwedd o Eryri yr ydym am ei chyfleu. Yr ydym am annog pobl i gerdded, dringo a defnyddio trenau ac yn y blaen.

Finally, I will consider Lorraine’s and Kirsty’s points and whether it is possible to fund a school bus project under this grant. I saw the report of the accident that was mentioned. As I am sure all Members know, we take account of recorded accidents and focus on the trunk roads on which those accidents occur to see whether a particular problem is causing them and whether we need to take action. Motorcyclists coming to Wales for the weekend are a big issue. I was with North Wales Police some months ago when it was a major topic under consideration. There is a terrific waste of life. People come here to enjoy the country, but the standard of driving and the conditions of the roads are not always compatible. The police are aware of that issue and are trying to tackle it at its source rather than picking up the aftermath of accidents on the roads. We need to keep considering this element of road safety. It is about funding but it is also about culture and working together.

Yn olaf, gwnaf ystyried y pwyntiau a wnaeth Lorraine a Kirsty ac a oes modd cyllido prosiect bysiau ysgol o dan y grant hwn. Gwelais yr adroddiad am y ddamwain a grybwyllwyd. Fel y gŵyr yr holl Aelodau, yr wyf yn siŵr, yr ydym yn ystyried y damweiniau a gofnodir ac yn canolbwyntio ar y cefnffyrdd lle y digwydd y damweiniau hynny i weld a oes problem benodol sy’n eu hachosi ac a oes angen inni weithredu ar hyn. Mae gyrwyr beic modur a ddaw i Gymru am y penwythnos yn fater o bwys. Yr oeddwn gyda Heddlu Gogledd Cymru rai misoedd yn ôl pan roddid sylw mawr i hyn. Ceir gwastraff ofnadwy ar fywyd. Daw pobl yma i fwynhau cefn gwlad, ond nid yw safon y gyrru a chyflwr y ffyrdd yn gyfaddas bob amser. Mae’r heddlu’n ymwybodol o’r mater hwnnw ac yn ceisio mynd i’r afael ag ef yn llygad y ffynnon yn hytrach na dim ond ymwneud â chanlyniadau ddamweiniau ar y ffyrdd. Rhaid inni ddal i ystyried yr agwedd hon ar ddiogelwch ar y ffyrdd. Mae’n ymwneud â chyllid ond mae hefyd yn ymwneud ag arferion a gweithio gyda’n gilydd.

DerbyniwydAdopted O blaidFor 38 YmatalAbstain 0 Yn erbynAgainst 0

Derbyniwyd y cynnig.

Motion carried.

Sut y pleidleisiodd yr AelodauHow Members voted
O blaidFor (38)
  • Lorraine Barrett
  • Mick Bates
  • Peter Black
  • Eleanor Burnham
  • Rosemary Butler
  • Christine Chapman
  • Andrew Davies
  • David Davies
  • Geraint Davies
  • Glyn Davies
  • Janet Davies
  • Jocelyn Davies
  • Sue Essex
  • Delyth Evans
  • Michael German
  • Janice Gregory
  • John Griffiths
  • Brian Gibbons
  • Christine Gwyther
  • Alison Halford
  • Edwina Hart
  • Jane Hutt
  • Ann Jones
  • Carwyn Jones
  • Elin Jones
  • Helen Mary Jones
  • Peter Law
  • Val Lloyd
  • David Melding
  • Rhodri Morgan
  • Alun Pugh
  • Jenny Randerson
  • Janet Ryder
  • Karen Sinclair
  • Gwenda Thomas
  • Owen John Thomas
  • Rhodri Glyn Thomas
  • Kirsty Williams

Cymeradwyo’r Gorchymyn Diwygio Rheoliadol (Addysg ac Ymchwil Betys Melys) 2003

Approval of the Regulatory Reform (Sugar Beet Research and Education) Order 2003

Michael German The Deputy First Minister and Minister for Rural Development and Wales Abroad spoken in English p. 59

Michael German Y Dirprwy Brif Weinidog a’r Gweinidog dros Ddatblygu Gwledig a Chymru Dramor siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 59

I propose that

Cynigiaf fod

Dafydd Elis-Thomas The Presiding Officer spoken in English p. 59

Dafydd Elis-Thomas Y Llywydd siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 59

There are no other speakers, so we will move directly to the vote.

Nid oes siaradwyr eraill, felly cynhaliwn y bleidlais ar unwaith.

Cynnig NDM1366 Michael German t. 59

Motion NDM1366 Michael German p. 59

DerbyniwydAdopted O blaidFor 37 YmatalAbstain 0 Yn erbynAgainst 0

Derbyniwyd y cynnig.

Motion carried.

Sut y pleidleisiodd yr AelodauHow Members voted
O blaidFor (37)
  • Lorraine Barrett
  • Mick Bates
  • Peter Black
  • Eleanor Burnham
  • Rosemary Butler
  • Christine Chapman
  • Andrew Davies
  • David Davies
  • Geraint Davies
  • Glyn Davies
  • Janet Davies
  • Jocelyn Davies
  • Sue Essex
  • Delyth Evans
  • Michael German
  • Janice Gregory
  • John Griffiths
  • Brian Gibbons
  • Christine Gwyther
  • Edwina Hart
  • Jane Hutt
  • Ann Jones
  • Carwyn Jones
  • Elin Jones
  • Helen Mary Jones
  • Peter Law
  • Val Lloyd
  • David Melding
  • Rhodri Morgan
  • Alun Pugh
  • Jenny Randerson
  • Janet Ryder
  • Karen Sinclair
  • Gwenda Thomas
  • Owen John Thomas
  • Rhodri Glyn Thomas
  • Kirsty Williams

Daeth y Dirprwy Lywydd i’r Gadair am 4 p.m.

The Deputy Presiding Officer took the Chair at 4 p.m.

Strategaeth Pysgod a Physgodfeydd Cymru

The Wales Fish and Fisheries Strategy

John Marek The Deputy Presiding Officer spoken in English p. 60

John Marek Y Dirprwy Lywydd siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 60

I have selected amendments 1, 2 and 3 in the name of Jocelyn Davies and amendment 4 in the name of Jonathan Morgan.

Yr wyf wedi dethol gwelliannau 1, 2 a 3 yn enw Jocelyn Davies a gwelliant 4 yn enw Jonathan Morgan.

Michael German The Deputy First Minister and Minister for Rural Development and Wales Abroad spoken in English p. 60

Michael German Y Dirprwy Brif Weinidog a’r Gweinidog dros Ddatblygu Gwledig a Chymru Dramor siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 60

I propose that

Cynigiaf fod

Michael German The Deputy First Minister and Minister for Rural Development and Wales Abroad (continued) spoken in English p. 61

Michael German Y Dirprwy Brif Weinidog a’r Gweinidog dros Ddatblygu Gwledig a Chymru Dramor (parhad) siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 61

I am pleased to have this opportunity to give Members details of the progress made in producing a Welsh fisheries strategy. The strategy relates to the commercial and recreational sectors of the fishery industry, which, along with its associated industries, makes the substantial and important contribution to the rural economy of approximately £130 million per annum. The Assembly recognises this contribution and commissioned a study a few months after devolution to identify opportunities for the sustainable economic development of fisheries. The study was undertaken by Nautilus Consultants and it recommended that two spearhead groups be established: one to develop a strategy for commercial fishing in the context of food production and processing, and the other to consider recreational fisheries. The Welsh Assembly Government established the two groups under the leadership of the Welsh Development Agency for the commercial sector, and of the Environment Agency for the recreational sector. Both groups are about to publish their findings and copies will shortly be made available in the Library. I thank both agencies, and the practitioners who worked with them, for their efforts. It is important that we seek the views of all interested parties and the strategies will therefore be subject to full and open consultation, including with the relevant Committee. Both groups will then submit their final reports to the Welsh Assembly Government for inclusion in an Assembly Welsh fisheries strategy, which we aim to produce by the end of this year.

Yr wyf yn falch o gael y cyfle hwn i roi manylion i Aelodau am y cynnydd a wnaed wrth lunio strategaeth pysgodfeydd i Gymru. Mae’r strategaeth yn ymwneud â sectorau masnachol a hamdden y diwydiant pysgodfeydd, sydd, ynghyd â’r diwydiannau sy’n gysylltiedig ag ef, yn gwneud cyfraniad sylweddol a phwysig i’r economi wledig o oddeutu £130 miliwn y flwyddyn. Mae’r Cynulliad yn cydnabod y cyfraniad hwn a chomisiynodd astudiaeth ychydig fisoedd ar ôl datganoli i ganfod cyfleoedd i ddatblygu pysgodfeydd mewn modd economaidd gynaliadwy. Gwnaed yr astudiaeth gan Nautilus Consultants ac argymhellodd sefydlu dau grŵp arweiniol: un i ddatblygu strategaeth ar gyfer pysgota masnachol yng nghyd-destun cynhyrchu a phrosesu bwyd, a’r llall i ystyried pysgodfeydd hamdden. Sefydlodd Llywodraeth Cynulliad Cymru y ddau grŵp o dan arweiniad Awdurdod Datblygu Cymru ar gyfer y sector masnachol, ac o dan arweiniad Asiantaeth yr Amgylchedd ar gyfer y sector hamdden. Mae’r ddau grŵp ar fin cyhoeddi eu canfyddiadau a darperir copïau yn y Llyfrgell cyn hir. Diolchaf i’r ddwy asiantaeth, ac i’r ymarferwyr a weithiodd gyda hwy, am eu gwaith. Mae’n bwysig inni geisio barn yr holl gyfranogion ac felly bydd ymgynghori llawn ac agored ar y strategaethau a fydd yn cynnwys y Pwyllgor perthnasol. Wedyn bydd y ddau grŵp yn cyflwyno eu hadroddiadau terfynol i Lywodraeth Cynulliad Cymru i’w cynnwys mewn strategaeth pysgodfeydd ar gyfer Cymru o eiddo’r Cynulliad, y bwriadwn ei llunio erbyn diwedd y flwyddyn hon.

This is a time of upheaval for the commercial fishing industry, with the ongoing review of the common fisheries policy uppermost in people’s minds. The Welsh fleet is mainly an inshore fleet, prosecuting shellfish, and our initial view is that it is likely to be only minimally affected by the proposed changes. Any possible closures of fisheries in the Irish sea would be more damaging but we would find it difficult to disagree with the scientific evidence that many European stocks, including those in the Irish sea, are under serious threat of being fished out. We are continuing to discuss with interested parties how we are to implement the changes and our Welsh fisheries strategy must reflect the outcome of those discussions.

Mae hwn yn gyfnod helbulus i’r diwydiant pysgota masnachol, ac mae’r adolygiad cyfredol o’r polisi pysgodfeydd cyffredin ym mlaen ein meddwl. Fflyd sy’n pysgota gyda’r glannau yw un Cymru gan mwyaf, ac mae’n dal pysgod cregyn, a’n barn ddechreuol yw mai ond ychydig o effaith a gaiff y newidiadau arfaethedig arni. Byddai posibilrwydd o gau pysgodfeydd ym môr Iwerddon yn fwy niweidiol ond fe’i caem yn anodd anghytuno â’r dystiolaeth wyddonol bod llawer o’r cyflenwadau yn Ewrop, gan gynnwys y rhai ym môr Iwerddon, mewn perygl mawr o gael eu dihysbyddu. Yr ydym yn dal i drafod â’r sawl â buddiant sut y gallwn roi’r newidiadau ar waith a rhaid i’n strategaeth pysgodfeydd i Gymru adlewyrchu canlyniad y trafodaethau hynny.

The original Nautilus report identified real potential for the expansion of recreational fisheries, and no doubt our strategy will contain proposals for maximising those opportunities. I welcome Members’ comments, which can be fed into that process. On the basis of the discussion, I will ensure that Members’ views are included in the consultation exercise.

Yn yr adroddiad gwreiddiol gan Nautilus nodwyd bod cyfleoedd gwirioneddol i ehangu pysgodfeydd hamdden, a bydd ein strategaeth yn sicr o gynnwys cynigion i hyrwyddo’r cyfleoedd hynny. Croesawaf sylwadau gan Aelodau, y gellir eu porthi i’r broses honno. Ar sail y drafodaeth, gwnaf sicrhau y caiff barn Aelodau ei chynnwys yn yr ymgynghoriad.

I cannot support the amendments, largely because they do not welcome the opportunity to create a strategy. On amendment 4, I have already given a commitment to consult the Agriculture and Rural Development Committee on this matter. That is common practice.

Ni allaf gefnogi’r gwelliannau, yn bennaf am nad ydynt yn croesawu’r cyfle i greu strategaeth. Ynghylch gwelliant 4, yr wyf eisoes wedi ymrwymo i ymgynghori â’r Pwyllgor Amaethyddiaeth a Datblygu Gwledig ar y mater hwn. Mae hynny’n arferol.

Rhodri Glyn Thomas siaradwyd yn Gymraeg t. 62

Rhodri Glyn Thomas spoken in Welsh p. 62

Cynigiaf y gwelliannau canlynol yn enw Jocelyn Davies. Gwelliant 1: dileu ‘yn croesawu’ yn y llinell gyntaf.

I propose the following amendments in the name of Jocelyn Davies. Amendment 1: delete ‘welcomes’ in the first line.

Rhodri Glyn Thomas (parhad) siaradwyd yn Gymraeg t. 62

Rhodri Glyn Thomas (continued) spoken in Welsh p. 62

Cynigiaf welliant 2. Ychwanegu ‘yn nodi’ at ddechrau pwynt 1.

I propose amendment 2. Add ‘notes’ to the beginning of point 1.

Rhodri Glyn Thomas (parhad) siaradwyd yn Gymraeg t. 62

Rhodri Glyn Thomas (continued) spoken in Welsh p. 62

Cynigiaf welliant 3. Ychwanegu ‘yn croesawu’ at ddechrau pwynt 2.

I propose amendment 3. Add ‘welcomes’ to the beginning of point 2.

Rhodri Glyn Thomas (parhad) siaradwyd yn Gymraeg t. 62

Rhodri Glyn Thomas (continued) spoken in Welsh p. 62

Yr wyf yn siomedig nad yw’r Gweinidog am gefnogi’r gwelliannau. Ei ddadl, os deallais yn iawn, oedd na allai gefnogi’n gwelliannau oherwydd nad ydym yn croesawu’r strategaeth. Mae newydd gyfaddef nad oes ganddo strategaeth hyd yn hyn, a’i fod yn dal i ddisgwyl adroddiadau gan Awdurdod Datblygu Cymru ac Asiantaeth yr Amglychedd. Felly, mae’n disgwyl inni groesawu strategaeth nad yw’n bodoli—mae hynny’n anodd. Gobeithiaf y bydd yn ailystyried ei safbwynt cyn diwedd y ddadl hon.

I am disappointed that the Minister will not support the amendments. His argument, if I understood it correctly, was that he could not support our amendments because we do not welcome the strategy. He has just admitted that he does not yet have a strategy, and that he is still awaiting the reports of the Welsh Development Agency and the Environment Agency. Therefore, he expects us to welcome a nonexistant strategy—that is difficult. I hope that he will reconsider his position before the end of this debate.

Yr ydym yn cydnabod bod yr adroddiad a gomisiynwyd yn dangos y potensial am ddatblygu pysgodfeydd, ond unwaith yn rhagor, er bod yr adroddiad hwn ar gael ers cryn amser, ychydig a wnaed i’w weithredu. Disgwyliem yr adroddiadau gan Asiantaeth yr Amgylchedd a’r WDA yn gynharach eleni. Byddai hynny wedi galluogi’r Gweinidog i gyflwyno ei strategaeth heddiw. Beth sy’n gyfrifol am yr oedi?

We acknowledge that the report that has been commissioned identifies the potential for developing fisheries, but once more, although this report has been available for some time, little has been done to implement it. We expected the reports from the Environment Agency and the WDA earlier this year. That would have enabled the Minister to present his strategy today. What is responsible for the delay?

Byddem yn falch o glywed pa ystyriaeth y mae wedi ei rhoi i bwyllgorau pysgodfeydd môr a beth yw ei argymhellion gan fod y pwyllgorau a’r awdurdodau lleol wedi disgwyl yn hir am ei benderfyniad ar y materion hyn. Fe’i cyfeiriaf hefyd at gwestiwn a godwyd gan Helen Mary Jones yn ôl yn Hydref 2002 am gasglwyr cocos. Mae’n fater pwysig iddi, fel y mae i’m hetholaeth innau. Yn Hydref 2002, yr oedd ateb i ddod yn fuan. Fis Mawrth 2003 yw hi yn awr, Weinidog. Gobeithiaf fod gennych ateb gwell na dweud y daw’r ateb yn fuan.

We would be glad to hear what consideration the Minister has given to the sea fisheries committees and what his recommendations are, because the committees and local authorities have been waiting for his decision on these matters for a long time. I also refer him to the question raised by Helen Mary Jones back in October 2002 about cockle gatherers. It is a matter of importance to her, as it is to my constituency. In October 2002, an answer was said to be imminent. It is now March 2003, Minister. I hope that you have a better answer than to say that the answer is imminent.

Helen Mary Jones spoken in English p. 63

Helen Mary Jones siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 63

Do you agree that the lack of urgency shown by the National Assembly Government with regard to compensation for cockle fishermen is unacceptable? Do you share my concern that it has not yet matched the money invested by Carmarthenshire County Council and the City and County of Swansea Council in research? The beds will continue to be closed while we lack the proper science on the alleged toxin. It is time that the Minister urgently addressed this matter, as families’ livelihoods are being seriously affected.

A ydych yn cytuno bod y diffyg brys a amlygir gan Lywodraeth y Cynulliad Cenedlaethol mewn cysylltiad ag iawndal i gasglwyr cocos yn annerbyniol? A ydych yn rhannu fy mhryder nad yw eto wedi rhoi arian i gyfateb i’r hyn a fuddsoddwyd mewn ymchwil gan Gyngor Sir Caerfyrddin a Chyngor Dinas a Sir Abertawe? Bydd y gwelyau’n dal i fod ar gau tra byddwn heb y wybodaeth briodol am y gwenwyn honedig. Mae’n bryd i’r Gweinidog ymdrin â’r mater hwn ar frys, gan fod hyn yn amharu’n ddifrifol ar fywoliaeth teuluoedd.

Rhodri Glyn Thomas siaradwyd yn Gymraeg t. 63

Rhodri Glyn Thomas spoken in Welsh p. 63

Derbyniaf eich sylwadau a phwysaf ar y Gweinidog i ymateb yn gadarnhaol iddynt. Nid oes modd i’r diwydiant hwn symud ymlaen tra’n aros am benderfyniad gan y Llywodraeth. Mae wedi derbyn cefnogaeth llywodraeth leol yn barod.

I agree with your remarks and urge the Minister to respond positively to them. This industry cannot move forward while it awaits a decision by the Government. It has already been supported by local government.

Yr ydym yn cydnabod bod gwerth a photensial mawr yn y diwydiant hwn. Disgwyliwn argymhellion penodol gennych. Sut yn union y mae’r Llywodraeth yn bwriadu gwireddu’r potensial hwnnw? Nid ydym wedi gweld unrhyw arwydd o hwnnw. Felly, gofynnaf i chi ailystyried eich penderfyniad i wrthod y gwelliannau, a’u cefnogi er mwyn symud y mater hwn yn ei flaen a symud tuag at weithredu pendant.

We acknowledge that there is great value and potential in this industry. We expect specific recommendations from you. How exactly does the Government intend to realise that potential? We have seen no sign of that. Therefore, I ask you to reconsider your decision to reject the amendments, and to support them in order to move this issue forward and move towards definite action.

Glyn Davies spoken in English p. 64

Glyn Davies siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 64

I propose the following amendment in the name of Jonathan Morgan. Amendment 4: in point 2, after ‘prepare,’ insert

Cynigiaf y gwelliant canlynol yn enw Jonathan Morgan. Gwelliant 4: gosod ym mhwynt 2, ar ôl ‘paratoi’

Glyn Davies (continued) spoken in English p. 64

Glyn Davies (parhad) siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 64

In my view, and that of many Members, the potential of fisheries has been seriously undervalued in Britain for a long time. The potential is huge and anybody who has travelled to Iceland, Scotland or Ireland will know how those countries have taken advantage of fishing as a fantastic tourist attraction. It brings huge amounts of money into those countries’ economies. There would be an enormous tourism and economic benefit to Wales taking fisheries seriously. Unlike Rhodri Glyn Thomas, I will not be churlish; I congratulate the Government on taking this issue seriously. Amendment 4 is meant to be constructive in recognising the aim of the Government and being rather supportive. It is a pity that the Government is also being churlish.

Yn fy marn i, a llawer o Aelodau, mae potensial sydd mewn pysgodfeydd wedi’i danbrisio’n fawr ym Mhrydain ers talwm. Mae’r potensial yn aruthrol a bydd unrhyw un a fu yng Ngwlad yr Iâ, yr Alban neu Iwerddon yn gwybod sut y mae’r gwledydd hynny wedi manteisio ar bysgota fel atyniad gwych i ymwelwyr. Daw â symiau aruthrol o arian i economi’r gwledydd hynny. Deuai budd enfawr i Gymru o ran twristiaeth a’r economi o gymryd pysgodfeydd o ddifrif. Yn wahanol i Rhodri Glyn Thomas, ni fyddaf yn anfoesgar; llongyfarchaf y Llywodraeth ar gymryd y mater hwn o ddifrif. Mae gwelliant 4 i fod yn adeiladol o ran cydnabod nod y Llywodraeth ac mae’n eithaf cefnogol. Mae’n drueni bod y Llywodraeth yn anfoesgar hefyd.

I support the decision to establish strategy groups. That is a good way of involving the Committee and introducing knowledgeable discussion. I am sure that all members of the Agriculture and Rural Affairs Committee, or its post-election successor, will look forward to becoming involved with that over the coming years. Commercial fishing is a matter of greater concern. In Wales, and throughout Britain, there have been massive job losses; indeed, the destruction of a whole industry. There is great concern that Britain has not been treated fairly in this matter. The common fisheries policy is the basis for much of this and there is concern that Spain, in particular, has benefited hugely from this policy and that Britain has lost out. It is important for the UK Government to ensure that Britain is treated fairly. The issue is conservation and it is difficult to argue against a policy when conservation issues are put forward, but it must not all be one way. Britain should not have to sacrifice its industry in the interests of conserving stock for the benefit of other countries. Today, I took part in several interviews on the future of the ruddy duck. Many Members will know—and this again concerns Spain—that the ruddy duck was introduced into Britain. Around 30 to 80 ruddy ducks travel to Spain every year; they are sex tourists—[Laughter.] This is a serious issue, Minister, about which you should be concerned. For some reason, the white-headed Spanish duck has taken a shine to the ruddy duck. I do not know whether it is because the ruddy duck is sexually aggressive, or indeed, whether the white-headed duck finds the ruddy duck attractive, but either way, the ruddy duck is dominating all sexual activity in Spain and the white-headed duck is now under threat.

Cefnogaf y penderfyniad i sefydlu grwpiau strategaeth. Mae hynny’n fodd da i gynnwys y Pwyllgor a dechrau trafodaeth wybodus. Yr wyf yn siŵr y bydd holl aelodau’r Pwyllgor Amaethyddiaeth a Datblygu Gwledig, neu’r hyn a fydd yn ei olynu ar ôl yr etholiad, yn edrych ymlaen at gymryd rhan yn hynny dros y blynyddoedd i ddod. Mae pysgota masnachol yn destun pryder mawr. Yng Nghymru, a ledled Prydain, collwyd llawer iawn o swyddi; yn wir, dinistriwyd diwydiant cyfan. Mae pryder mawr nad yw Prydain yn cael ei thrin yn deg yn y mater hwn. Y polisi pysgodfeydd cyffredin yw’r rheswm am hynny i raddau helaeth ac mae pryder bod Sbaen, yn benodol, wedi cael budd aruthrol o’r polisi hwn a bod Prydain ar ei cholled. Mae’n bwysig i Lywodraeth y DU sicrhau bod Prydain yn cael ei thrin yn deg. Cadwraeth yw’r hyn sydd dan sylw ac anodd dadlau yn erbyn polisi pan gyflwynir materion cadwraeth, ond ni chaiff fod yn unochrog. Ni ddylai Prydain orfod aberthu ei diwydiant er mwyn cadw cyflenwadau er budd gwledydd eraill. Heddiw, cymerais ran mewn sawl cyfweliad ar ddyfodol hwyaid coch. Gŵyr llawer o Aelodau—ac mae hyn yn ymwneud â Sbaen hefyd—fod yr hwyaden goch wedi’i chyflwyno i Brydain. Bydd tua 30 i 80 o hwyaid coch yn hedfan i Sbaen bob blwyddyn; twristiaid rhyw ydynt —[Chwerthin.] Mater difrif yw hwn, Weinidog, y dylech ymboeni yn ei gylch. Am ryw reswm, mae hwyaden benwyn Sbaen wedi cymryd at yr hwyaden goch. Ni wn a yw hynny am fod yr hwyaden goch yn rhywiol ymosodol neu, yn wir, am fod yr hwyaden benwyn yn cael yr hwyaden goch yn ddeniadol, ond y naill ffordd neu’r llall, yr hwyaden goch sy’n cael y lle blaenaf yn yr holl weithgaredd rhywiol yn Sbaen ac mae’r hwyaden benwyn bellach o dan fygythiad.

The Government is suggesting spending up to £1,000 per bird to slaughter the entire British ruddy duck population. I suggest that we could introduce a new country sport—

Mae’r Llywodraeth yn awgrymu gwario hyd at £1,000 yr aderyn i ladd yr holl hwyaid coch ym Mhrydain. Awgrymaf y gallem gyflwyno math newydd o hela yng nghefn gwlad—

David Davies spoken in English p. 65

David Davies siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 65

Will you give way?

A wnewch ildio?

John Marek The Deputy Presiding Officer spoken in English p. 65

John Marek Y Dirprwy Lywydd siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 65

Order. Before you consider giving way, there needs to be an occasional reference to fish. This debate relates to fisheries.

Trefn. Cyn ichi ystyried ildio, rhaid cael ambell gyfeiriad at bysgod. Dadl am bysgodfeydd yw hon.

Glyn Davies spoken in English p. 65

Glyn Davies siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 65

I will take your advice, Dirprwy Lywydd. My point relates to commercial fishing, on which we must develop relationships with the EU, and particularly Spain, to ensure that Britain is treated fairly and does not have to make a bigger sacrifice in terms of jobs. On the ruddy duck situation, the British Government must pay up to £1,000 per bird simply to stop a maximum of 80 ruddy ducks travelling to Spain every year. Surely, that cost should be met by the Spanish Government. The negotiating ability of the British Government has been appallingly weak. When the Minister visits Brussels to consider fisheries, such issues should be brought into the equation to ensure that Britain is treated fairly.

Derbyniaf eich cyngor, Ddirprwy Lywydd. Mae’r pwynt sydd gennyf yn ymwneud â physgota masnachol, y mae’n rhaid inni ddatblygu cysylltiadau yn ei gylch gyda’r UE, ac yn enwedig Sbaen, i sicrhau y caiff Prydain ei thrin yn deg ac nad yw’n gorfod aberthu mwy o ran swyddi. Ynghylch yr hwyaid coch, rhaid i Lywodraeth Prydain dalu hyd at £1,000 yr aderyn, dim ond i atal 80 o hwyaid coch, ar y mwyaf, rhag hedfan i Sbaen bob blwyddyn. Siawns nad Llywodraeth Sbaen a ddylai dalu’r gost honno. Bu gallu Llywodraeth Prydain o ran negodi’n ofnadwy o wan. Pan aiff y Gweinidog i Frwsel i ystyried pysgodfeydd, dylid rhoi sylw i faterion o’r fath wrth bwyso a mesur er mwyn sicrhau y caiff Prydain ei thrin yn deg.

John Griffiths spoken in English p. 65

John Griffiths siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 65

It is difficult to follow that. I will address a serious matter; not that Glyn was being unduly frivolous. We must give due recognition to heritage fishing—

Mae’n anodd dilyn hynny. Ymdriniaf â mater difrifol; er nad oedd Glyn yn gwamalu’n ormodol. Rhaid inni roi sylw dyladwy i bysgota treftadaeth—

Glyn Davies spoken in English p. 66

Glyn Davies siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 66

Will you give way?

A wnewch ildio?

John Griffiths spoken in English p. 66

John Griffiths siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 66

No, Glyn.

Na wnaf, Glyn.

I have often mentioned the lave net fishermen who operate in the Severn estuary, some of whom live in my constituency. There are other heritage fishermen in Wales, such as those on the Teifi, the coracle fishermen and so on. These are serious matters relating to preserving heritage and encouraging tourism. It has now been recognised, by all who have taken an interest, that lave net fishermen do not pose a threat to fishing stocks. They catch a handful of salmon per year, if they are fortunate. An average of five salmon was caught, between the group, in the last five years. However, these fishermen are determined to keep their tradition alive. They make an important contribution to heritage and tourism. There has been a great deal of media interest in their activities and they demonstrated their traditional skills at the Museum of Welsh Life at St Fagans this year. They operate in the gateway to Wales and are seen by many tourists.

Yr wyf wedi sôn yn aml am y pysgotwyr rhwydi lave sy’n gweithio yn aber Hafren, y mae rhai ohonynt yn byw yn fy etholaeth i. Mae pysgotwyr treftadaeth eraill yng Nghymru, fel y rhai ar afon Teifi, y rhai sy’n pysgota mewn cyryglau ac yn y blaen. Materion difrif yw’r rhain sy’n ymwneud â chadw treftadaeth a hyrwyddo twristiaeth. Cydnabuwyd bellach, gan bawb sydd wedi ymddiddori yn hyn, nad yw’r pysgotwyr rhwydi lave yn fygythiad i’r cyflenwadau o bysgod. Maent yn dal llond llaw o eogiaid y flwyddyn, os ydynt yn ffodus. Daliwyd pum eog ar gyfartaledd, ymysg y grŵp, yn y pum mlynedd diwethaf. Er hynny, mae’r pysgotwyr hyn yn benderfynol o gynnal eu traddodiad. Maent yn gwneud cyfraniad pwysig i dreftadaeth a thwristiaeth. Bu llawer o ddiddordeb yn eu gweithgareddau yn y cyfryngau a gwnaethant arddangos eu sgiliau traddodiadol yn Amgueddfa Werin Cymru yn Sain Ffagan eleni. Maent yn gweithredu wrth y fynedfa i Gymru ac fe’u gwelir gan lawer o dwristiaid.

They make hand-held ‘y’-shaped wooden frames that contain nets. They fish one of the most dangerous paths of the Severn estuary and they use names for places in the river that are not marked on any maps, but which are familiar to the villagers of the area: names such as ‘the grandstand’, ‘the hole’ and ‘the gruggy’. There is currently a great deal of anxiety among these fishermen, of which the Minister is aware, because the Severn estuary action plan is to be published on Monday. Their already restricted fishing activities may be further restricted by that plan. I have made a plea many times for common sense to prevail and for their heritage and tourism value and the fact that they pose no threat to salmon stocks to be recognised. For hundreds of years, generations in this area have practised lave net fishing. The fishermen have been caused great anxiety by the regrettable delay in the publication of this action plan. It has hampered the development of their activities. As I say, the plan is to be published on Monday and I hope that common sense will prevail and that the knowledge passed down through generations will be conserved and protected. These fishermen wade waist-deep into the river, watch for fish, run after them and catch them in nets, and return before the tide cuts them off. These are ancient skills, worthy of preservation, and attract a lot of tourist interest. The fishermen are already very restricted in their activities. They operate only from the first spring tides of June until the end of August, so they could not possibly accommodate further restriction.

Maent yn gwneud fframiau pren ar ffurf ‘y’ sy’n cynnwys rhwydi, a ddelir yn y dwylo. Maent yn pysgota yn un o lwybrau peryclaf aber Hafren a defnyddiant enwau am leoedd ar yr afon sydd heb eu marcio ar unrhyw fap, ond sy’n gyfarwydd i bentrefwyr yr ardal: enwau fel ‘the grandstand’, ‘the hole’ a ‘the gruggy’. Mae llawer o bryder ymysg y pysgotwyr hyn ar hyn o bryd, y gŵyr y Gweinidog amdano, am fod cynllun gweithredu aber Hafren i’w gyhoeddi ddydd Llun. Mae’n bosibl y bydd y cynllun hwnnw’n cyfyngu ymhellach ar eu gweithgareddau pysgota. Yr wyf wedi apelio lawer gwaith am roi synnwyr cyffredin yn gyntaf ac am gydnabod eu gwerth o ran treftadaeth a thwristiaeth a’r ffaith nad ydynt yn peri bygythiad i’r cyflenwadau o eogiaid. Am gannoedd o flynyddoedd, mae cenedlaethau yn yr ardal hon wedi bod yn pysgota â rhwydi lave. Achoswyd gofid mawr i’r pysgotwyr oherwydd yr oedi anffodus cyn cyhoeddi’r cynllun gweithredu hwn. Mae wedi llesteirio datblygiad eu gweithgareddau. Fel y dywedaf, mae’r cynllun i’w gyhoeddi ddydd Llun a gobeithiaf y bydd synnwyr cyffredin yn ennill y dydd ac y bydd y wybodaeth a draddodwyd o genhedlaeth i genhedlaeth yn cael ei chadw a’i diogelu. Mae’r pysgotwyr hyn yn mynd i ddŵr yr afon hyd at eu canol, yn gwylio am bysgod, yn rhedeg ar eu hôl ac yn eu dal mewn rhwydi, ac yn dod yn ôl i’r lan cyn i’r llanw eu hynysu. Sgiliau hynafol yw’r rhain, sy’n werth eu cadw, ac maent yn ennyn llawer o ddiddordeb ymysg ymwelwyr. Mae cyfyngiadau mawr eisoes ar weithgareddau’r pysgotwyr. Dim ond rhwng llanwau mawr cyntaf Mehefin a diwedd Awst y maent yn gweithredu, felly ni allent ddygymod â chyfyngiadau pellach.

I make this plea ahead of Monday’s launch, that there should be recognition of the reality of the situation and that the lave net fishermen’s activities should be preserved for future generations. This valuable practice should be kept alive.

Rhoddaf yr apêl hon cyn y cyhoeddi ddydd Llun, am gydnabod y gwir am y sefyllfa ac am ddiogelu gweithgareddau’r pysgotwyr rhwydi lave ar gyfer cenedlaethau’r dyfodol. Dylid cadw’r arfer gwerthfawr hwn yn fyw.

David Davies spoken in English p. 67

David Davies siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 67

John may get a sense of déjà vu in listening to my speech. I also wanted to mention the lave net fishermen and I can only echo most of what he said. It also affects my constituency. This practice has gone on for centuries and I want to see it continue for centuries more. I believe that, on average, only one salmon is caught each season. I know something about the River Severn, since I have surfed the Severn bore. It is not the sort of water you can be out in all year round.

Efallai y bydd John yn profi teimlad o déjà vu wrth wrando ar fy araith. Yr oeddwn innau am gyfeirio at y pysgotwyr rhwydi lave ac ni allaf ond ategu’r rhan fwyaf o’r hyn a ddywedodd. Mae’n effeithio ar fy etholaeth i hefyd. Mae’r arfer hwn yn bod ers canrifoedd ac yr wyf am ei weld yn parhau am ganrifoedd eto. Credaf mai dim ond un eog a gaiff ei ddal bob tymor, ar gyfartaledd. Yr wyf yn gyfarwydd ag afon Hafren, gan fy mod wedi reidio ar eger Hafren. Nid hwnnw yw’r math o ddŵr y gallwch fynd iddo gydol y flwyddyn.

It is disappointing that fisheries are being subjected to far too many rules and regulations, whether by the Environment Agency, or by Government in the Assembly, London or Brussels. Fisheries are a good example of a sector where our interests are forever being subsumed to those of people in other European Union countries. That is why Glyn Davies was absolutely right to highlight the plight of the red-blooded ruddy duck. It may not be a fish, but it is a good example of how our interests are being subsumed. Another example, which does relate to fish, is the insistence that all fish be labelled using their Latin names. The next time that you go to a fishmonger and ask for some halibut you will probably have to ask for a nice piece of hippoglossus, or they will not know what you are talking about. If you go to a chippy, instead of seeing a sign for cod and chips, you will see gadus and chips advertised. That goes to show that, thanks to the European Union, we have now reached the piece of cod that passes all understanding.

Mae’n siomedig bod gormod o lawer o reolau a rheoliadau’n cael eu gorfodi ar bysgodfeydd, boed hynny gan Asiantaeth yr Amgylchedd, neu gan Lywodraeth yn y Cynulliad, Llundain neu Frwsel. Mae pysgodfeydd yn enghraifft dda o sector lle y mae ein buddiannau ni’n cael eu gogynnwys gan fuddiannau rhai mewn gwledydd eraill yn yr Undeb Ewropeaidd. Dyna pam yr oedd yn gwbl briodol i Glyn Davies dynnu sylw at drafferthion yr hwyaden goch nwyfus. Er nad pysgodyn ydyw, mae’n enghraifft dda o’r modd y caiff ein buddiannau eu gogynnwys. Enghraifft arall, sy’n ymwneud â physgod, yw mynnu y caiff pob pysgodyn ei labelu gan ddefnyddio ei enw Lladin. Y tro nesaf yr ewch i siop bysgod a gofyn am leden y môr, mae’n debyg y byddwch yn gorfod gofyn am ddarn blasus o hippoglossus, neu ni fyddant yn gwybod am beth yr ydych yn sôn. Os ewch i siop sglodion, yn lle gweld arwydd am benfras a sglodion, gwelwch hysbysebu gadus a sglodion. Dengys hynny, diolch i’r Undeb Ewropeaidd, ein bod bellach wedi cael y darn o benfras sydd y tu hwnt i bob deall.

Ann Jones spoken in English p. 68

Ann Jones siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 68

I do not find that very funny, David.

Nid wyf yn cael hynny’n ddoniol o gwbl, David.

David Davies spoken in English p. 68

David Davies siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 68

I will take intervention from you, if you wish. I was making a serious point.

Gwnaf dderbyn ymyriad gennych, os dymunwch. Yr oeddwn yn gwneud pwynt difrif.

Ann Jones spoken in English p. 68

Ann Jones siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 68

I did not find that very funny, considering that we are approaching Lent. I have faith and I found that remark to be rather frivolous.

Ni chefais hynny’n ddoniol, o ystyried ein bod yn dynesu at y Grawys. Yr wyf yn grediniwr a chefais y sylw hwnnw’n un gwamal braidd.

David Davies spoken in English p. 68

David Davies siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 68

I am a churchgoer myself. You have to have a sense of humour in religion.

Yr wyf finnau’n eglwyswr. Rhaid wrth synnwyr digrifwch mewn crefydd.

It is extremely disappointing that so many of our fisheries are now threatened by overfishing. I find it impossible to comprehend why we are talking about closing fisheries in the Irish Sea, and why Welsh fishermen are paid to scrap their boats, even as the European Union encourages the building of brand-new Spanish fishing boats. Like most of the public, I find it hard to understand why the size of nets used by British vessels is very strictly controlled, while Spanish boats appear to be able to operate unimpeded. Until we are prepared to operate the same level of restrictions throughout the European Union, to put our own fishermen first, and to stop using bureaucracy against people such as the lave net fishermen, then our fisheries will continue to be threatened. We have to do away with the bureaucracy that is currently in place.

Mae’n dra siomedig bod cynifer o’n pysgodfeydd dan fygythiad bellach oherwydd gorbysgota. Fe’i caf yn amhosibl deall pam yr ydym yn sôn am gau pysgodfeydd ym môr Iwerddon, a pham y telir i bysgotwyr o Gymry sgrapio eu cychod, er bod yr Undeb Ewropeaidd yn annog adeiladu cychod pysgota newydd sbon yn Sbaen. Fel y rhan fwyaf o’r cyhoedd, yr wyf yn ei chael yn anodd deall pam y mae rheolaeth gaeth iawn ar faint y rhwydi a ddefnyddir gan longau o Brydain, tra ymddengys bod cychod o Sbaen yn cael gweithredu’n ddilyfethair. Hyd nes y byddwn yn barod i roi’r un cyfyngiadau ar waith ledled yr Undeb Ewropeaidd, i roi ein pysgotwyr ni’n gyntaf, ac i roi’r gorau i ddefnyddio biwrocratiaeth yn erbyn rhai fel y pysgotwyr rhwydi lave, bydd ein pysgodfeydd yn dal i fod o dan fygythiad. Rhaid inni gael gwared ar y fiwrocratiaeth sydd ar waith ar hyn o bryd.

Mick Bates spoken in English p. 68

Mick Bates siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 68

The Welsh Liberal Democrats welcome the motion. We recognise the work that has gone into the preparation of an all-Wales fishing strategy, starting with the Nautilus study and the report, and progressing with the spearhead committees led by the Welsh Development Agency and the Environment Agency, which are in the process of putting draft strategies out to public consultation. I believe that this is the first such strategy in the UK, and the only one that covers both sea and inland fisheries.

Mae Democratiaid Rhyddfrydol Cymru yn croesawu’r cynnig hwn. Cydnabyddwn y gwaith sydd wedi mynd at baratoi strategaeth pysgota i Gymru gyfan, gan ddechrau ag astudiaeth Nautilus a’r adroddiad, a symud ymlaen drwy’r pwyllgorau arweiniol a lywir gan Awdurdod Datblygu Cymru ac Asiantaeth yr Amgylchedd, sydd ar ganol dosbarthu strategaethau drafft ar gyfer ymgynghori cyhoeddus. Credaf mai hon yw’r strategaeth gyntaf o’i math yn y DU, a’r unig un sy’n ymdrin â physgodfeydd morol a mewndirol.

This has been quite an interesting debate so far. We have had a contribution from Daffy Duck. A thought that flashed through my head was that if I were to go into a shop and ask for a Tory, what would I ask for? A brontosaurus, I expect, or some other extinct species. We look forward to getting this all-Wales fisheries strategy for both sea and inland fisheries by the end of the year, Minister. Conservation must be a key element for both and I hope that the reform of the common fisheries policy will conserve and boost fish stocks. As with so many issues facing us, sustainability must be our guiding principle.

Bu hon yn ddadl ddiddorol hyd yma. Cawsom gyfraniad gan Daffy Duck. Un syniad a aeth drwy fy meddwl oedd am beth y dylwn ofyn, pe byddwn yn mynd i siop a minnau am gael Tori? Brontosor, dybiwn i, neu ryw rywogaeth ddiflanedig arall. Edrychwn ymlaen at gael y strategaeth pysgodfeydd hon i Gymru gyfan ar gyfer pysgodfeydd morol a mewndirol erbyn diwedd y flwyddyn, Weinidog. Rhaid i gadwraeth fod yn elfen allweddol ar gyfer y ddau a gobeithiaf y bydd y polisi pysgodfeydd cyffredin diwygiedig yn cadw ac yn hyrwyddo cyflenwadau pysgod. Yn yr un modd â llawer o faterion eraill sy’n ein hwynebu, rhaid i gynaliadwyedd fod yn egwyddor sylfaenol gennym.

Last night, I attended the Welsh organic food experience event in Cardiff Castle, where I met Stephen Saunders, the famous chef who, you will recall, started Ready Steady Cook. He complained about the quality of much of the fish that is provided by fish farms. Is it possible, Minister, to address that quality issue in the reports? We are, as you are aware, developing an organic industry in Wales that has tremendous potential to supply the best restaurants throughout Great Britain, and our fish farms could play a vital part in that.

Neithiwr, bûm yn bresennol yn nigwyddiad y profiad bwyd organig Cymreig yng Nghastell Caerdydd, lle y cyfarfûm â Stephen Saunders, y cogydd enwog a gychwynnodd Ready Steady Cook, fel y cofiwch. Cwynodd am ansawdd llawer o’r pysgod a ddarperir gan ffermydd pysgod. Weinidog, a oes modd ymdrin â mater ansawdd yn yr adroddiadau? Fel y gwyddoch, yr ydym yn datblygu diwydiant organig yng Nghymru ac ynddo botensial aruthrol i gyflenwi’r bwytai gorau ledled Prydain Fawr, a gallai ein ffermydd pysgod chwarae rhan hollbwysig yn hynny.

As you know, we have already lost our oyster industry in Wales because of sea pollution. I do not suppose that either of these reports can address the purity of seawater so that oysters could be reintroduced into the Haven, for example. I believe, Minister, that only one loch in Ireland has seawater pure enough to produce oysters. Inland fisheries have tremendous recreational and tourist potential. In Montgomeryshire we have a regeneration company called Montgomery Royal Enterprises and a link of fishing pots, and we have seen a tremendous benefit to those farming businesses that have established fishing ponds. I hope that we will see details of the economic benefits of inland fisheries in these reports.

Fel y gwyddoch, yr ydym eisoes wedi colli ein diwydiant wystrys yng Nghymru oherwydd difwyniant môr. Nid wyf yn tybio y gall y naill neu’r llall o’r adroddiadau hyn ymdrin â phurdeb dŵr môr fel y gellid ailgyflwyno wystrys yn Aberdaugleddau, er enghraifft. Yr wyf yn credu, Weinidog, mai dim ond mewn un foryd yn Iwerddon y ceir dŵr môr sy’n ddigon pur i gynhyrchu wystrys. Mae potensial aruthrol mewn pysgodfeydd mewndirol o ran hamdden a thwristiaeth. Yn Sir Drefaldwyn mae gennym gwmni adfywio o’r enw Montgomery Royal Enterprises a chadwyn o botiau pysgota, a gwelsom fudd aruthrol yn dod i ran y busnesau ffermio hynny a greodd lynnoedd pysgota. Gobeithiaf y gwelwn fanylion am fanteision economaidd pysgodfeydd mewndirol yn yr adroddiadau hyn.

What I like so much about this, Minister, is that it is consistent with our desire for sustainable development, because not only are we retaining families in rural areas but we are giving them a prosperous business that fits in well with our environmental concerns. There is no point, for example, in encouraging people to come to Wales to fish if we do not have the fish stocks. I wonder how these reports will address the replenishment of fish stocks and whether the disease controls we have in place are sufficient. As you are well aware, disease has become a serious issue for many salmon farms, particularly in Scotland, as has the deformities of a great many of the salmon that are retained in massive cages.

Yr hyn sy’n apelio ataf gymaint yn hyn, Weinidog, yw ei fod yn gyson â’n hawydd i weld datblygu cynaliadwy, oherwydd yn ogystal â chadw teuluoedd mewn ardaloedd gwledig, yr ydym hefyd yn rhoi busnes ffyniannus iddynt sy’n cydweddu’n dda â’n pryderon amgylcheddol. Nid oes diben mewn annog pobl i ddod i Gymru i bysgota, er enghraifft, os nad oes gennym gyflenwadau digonol o bysgod. Tybed sut y bydd yr adroddiadau hyn yn ymdrin â’r angen i adnewyddu cyflenwadau o bysgod ac a yw’r rheolaethau ar glefydau sydd ar waith gennym yn ddigonol. Fel y gwyddoch yn iawn, mae afiechydon wedi dod yn fater difrifol i lawer o ffermydd eogiaid, yn enwedig yn yr Alban, fel y mae’r camffurfiadau a geir mewn llawer o’r eogiaid a gedwir mewn cewyll anferth.

River management is equally important in ensuring the long-term viability of angling, which has tremendous potential to assist the rural economy. To that end, I would be pleased—the Minister for Environment is not here at present—to see the restrictions on coarse fishing in the closed season, which currently relate to areas of special scientific interest, lifted. At the moment, we cannot fish our canal in Montgomeryshire because of some silly law about not fishing in areas of special scientific interest. That law has been removed in many places, Minister, and I hope that you too will lend your voice to its removal so that we can reap the benefits of angling.

Mae rheoli afonydd yr un mor bwysig wrth sicrhau y bydd genweirio, a allai fod o gymorth mawr i’r economi wledig, yn ddichonol yn y tymor hir. I’r perwyl hwnnw—nid yw’r Gweinidog dros yr Amgylchedd yma ar hyn o bryd—byddwn yn falch o weld diwedd ar y cyfngiadau ar bysgota bras yn y tymor gwaharddedig, sy’n berthnasol ar hyn o bryd i ardaloedd o ddiddordeb gwyddonol arbennig. Ar y funud, ni allwn bysgota yn y gamlas yn Sir Drefaldwyn oherwydd rhyw ddeddf wirion ynghylch peidio â physgota mewn ardaloedd o ddiddordeb gwyddonol arbennig. Diddymwyd y ddeddf honno mewn llawer man, Weinidog, a gobeithiaf y gwnewch chithau alw am ei diddymu fel y gallwn gael budd o enweirio.

Glyn Davies spoken in English p. 70

Glyn Davies siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 70

Mick, do you agree that we ought to consider using Tir Gofal for collective, group applications along routes like the Montgomeryshire canal and certain rivers to create the maximum benefit for all of nature, including the fish that live therein?

Mick, a ydych yn cytuno y dylem ystyried defnyddio Tir Gofal ar gyfer ceisiadau ar y cyd gan grwpiau ar hyd llwybrau fel camlas Sir Drefaldwyn a rhai afonydd er mwyn sicrhau’r budd mwyaf posibl i bob agwedd ar fyd natur, gan gynnwys y pysgod sy’n byw ynddynt?

Mick Bates spoken in English p. 70

Mick Bates siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 70

Thank you for that interesting suggestion. We have encouraged, through Pontpren, of which I am a member, co-operation in applying for environmental works, and I think that those same principles should be used in this case. I would support measures that could be achieved for fishing through Tir Gofal applications. I look forward to the publication of these studies, and I hope, Minister, that there will be sufficient resources to implement their recommendations because, while talking the talk is fine, we must ultimately walk the walk. That always means providing sufficient resources.

Diolch i chi am yr awgrym diddorol hwnnw. Drwy Pontpren, yr wyf fi’n aelod ohono, yr ydym wedi hybu cydweithredu wrth wneud ceisiadau am waith amgylcheddol, a chredaf y dylid dilyn yr un egwyddorion yn yr achos hwn. Byddwn o blaid mesurau y gellid eu cyflawni ar gyfer pysgota drwy geisiadau i Tir Gofal. Edrychaf ymlaen at gyhoeddi’r astudiaethau hyn, a gobeithiaf, Weinidog, y bydd digon o adnoddau i roi eu hargymhellion ar waith oherwydd, er bod siarad yn iawn, rhaid inni weithredu yn y pen draw. Mae hynny bob amser yn golygu darparu digon o adnoddau.

Brian Gibbons spoken in English p. 71

Brian Gibbons siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 71

This has been an interesting debate for me, not least I am starting from a low knowledge base. I would like to ask the Minister about the role of aquaculture in this strategy. That is important to my constituency. There is a rapidly expanding business based on aquaculture in my constituency, which started off initially as digging up sea bait, then proceeded to growing sea bait, and is now moving on to become a multi-million pound industry supplying nutrition for fish farms throughout Britain, and possibly throughout Europe and the world. This industry has expanded from Port Talbot into west Wales. It has the potential to provide many jobs and, in perhaps being able to supply fish bait to people who fish, may consequently benefit tourism. Is any work being done on the role of aquaculture in the strategic development of fishing in relation to economic development in Wales?

Bu hon yn ddadl ddiddorol i mi, a hynny’n anad dim am mai ychydig o wybodaeth a oedd gennyf i ddechrau. Carwn holi’r Gweinidog ynghylch rôl ffermio dŵr yn y strategaeth hon. Mae hynny’n bwysig i’m hetholaeth i. Mae busnes sy’n seiliedig ar ffermio dŵr yn tyfu’n gyflym yn fy etholaeth i, a ddechreuodd drwy balu abwydydd o’r môr, a symud ymlaen wedyn at fagu abwydydd yn y môr, ac mae bellach yn datblygu’n ddiwydiant gwerth miliynau lawer o bunnoedd sy’n cyflenwi porthiant ar gyfer ffermydd pysgod ledled Prydain, a thrwy Ewrop a ledled y byd o bosibl. Mae’r diwydiant hwn wedi ehangu o Bort Talbot i orllewin Cymru. Gallai gynnig llawer o swyddi, a thrwy allu cyflenwi abwyd pysgod i rai sy’n pysgota, efallai y gallai fod o fudd i dwristiaeth o ganlyniad. A wneir unrhyw waith ar rôl ffermio dŵr wrth ddatblygu pysgota’n strategol mewn cysylltiad â datblygu economaidd yng Nghymru?

Michael German The Deputy First Minister and Minister for Rural Development and Wales Abroad spoken in English p. 71

Michael German Y Dirprwy Brif Weinidog a’r Gweinidog dros Ddatblygu Gwledig a Chymru Dramor siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 71

Thank you for those interesting comments, which will be picked up in the consultation that will take place shortly on the two documents that will come forward from the Environment Agency and the Welsh Development Agency. I am also anxious to make progress on this matter, and wish to see delays minimised. The reason for not moving ahead as quickly as we might have wanted is because of extensive consideration by the Welsh Development Agency and its partners, and the Environment Agency, in order to try to reach a commonly-held position. That has traditionally been a drawback, and the problem that we have faced is trying to get all partners to sing from the same hymn sheet. I hope that we have achieved that in the documents that are soon to be published.

Diolch i chi am y sylwadau diddorol hynny, a ddilynir yn yr ymgynghori a geir cyn hir ar y ddwy ddogfen a ddaw oddi wrth Asiantaeth yr Amgylchedd ac Awdurdod Datblygu Cymru. Yr wyf finnau’n awyddus i wneud cynnydd ar y mater hwn, a dymunaf weld cyn lleied o oedi ag y bo modd. Y rheswm dros beidio â symud ymlaen mor gyflym ag y dymunem yw’r ystyriaeth estynedig gan Awdurdod Datblygu Cymru a’i bartneriaid, ac Asiantaeth yr Amgylchedd, er mwyn ceisio dod i safbwynt cyffredin. Dyna fu’r rhwystr yn y gorffennol, a’r broblem sydd gennym yw ceisio cael cytundeb rhwng yr holl bartneriaid. Gobeithiaf ein bod wedi cyflawni hynny yn y dogfennau sydd i’w cyhoeddi cyn hir.

On the Burry inlet, I mentioned in a reply to an oral Assembly question from Janet Ryder, I believe, what has happened to the application that was put in by the Welsh Assembly Government to the European Commission last November. I am informed that we are now some five weeks away from a response from the commission, which asked us to do some redrafting work in January. However, we have yet to receive a scientific decision on what the toxin in the Bury inlet is, which is part of the difficulty. Until we can establish scientifically what the toxin is, it is difficult to move ahead on an action plan to deal with the issue. I cannot give any further information than that.

Ynghylch moryd y Burry, cyfeiriais mewn ateb i gwestiwn Cynulliad llafar gan Janet Ryder, yr wyf yn credu, at yr hyn a ddigwyddodd i’r cais a gyflwynwyd gan Lywodraeth Cynulliad Cymru i’r Comisiwn Ewropeaidd fis Tachwedd diwethaf. Yr wyf wedi cael gwybod y byddwn yn cael ymateb ymhen tua phum wythnos gan y comisiwn, a ofynnodd inni wneud rhywfaint o waith ailddrafftio yn Ionawr. Fodd bynnag, nid ydym wedi cael penderfyniad gwyddonol eto ar yr hyn yw’r gwenwyn yng nghilfach Porth Tywyn, ac mae hynny’n cyfrannu at y trafferthion. Hyd nes y gallwn bennu’n wyddonol beth yw’r gwenwyn, mae’n anodd symud ymlaen ar gynllun gweithredu i ddelio â’r mater. Ni allaf roi mwy o wybodaeth na hynny.

Helen Mary Jones spoken in English p. 72

Helen Mary Jones siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 72

I accept everything that you have said about the need for research. However, can you tell us what is happening on funding? As I mentioned in my intervention during Rhodri Glyn’s contribution, money has been provided from two county councils. Is the National Assembly matching that funding, and what progress is being made, because the problem will recur, as you rightly say, unless we get the science right?

Yr wyf yn derbyn popeth a ddywedasoch am yr angen am ymchwil. Fodd bynnag, a allwch ddweud wrthym beth sy’n digwydd ynghylch cyllid? Fel y dywedais yn fy ymyriad yn ystod cyfraniad Rhodri Glyn, darparwyd arian gan y ddau gyngor sir. A yw’r Cynulliad Cenedlaethol yn rhoi arian i gyfateb i hynny, a pha gynnydd a wneir, oherwydd bydd y broblem yn codi eto, fel y dywedasoch, os na chawn ateb gwyddonol?

Michael German spoken in English p. 72

Michael German siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 72

I am happy to write to you in response to your question; I need to have the detail in front of me.

Byddaf yn falch o ysgrifennu atoch mewn ymateb i’ch cwestiwn; rhaid imi gael y manylion o’m blaen.

On John’s point, I am aware of the contribution from the Severn lave net fishermen and of heritage fisheries as a whole. As I have explained before, there are no proposals to stop heritage fisheries. I am waiting for the plan next week to see where we are moving on this. However, no decision has been made. If any proposals were to come forward from the Environment Agency, there would be a full consultation process in which it could engage. The spirit of this Government is with the heritage fisheries on the Severn estuary.

Ynghylch y pwynt a wnaeth John, yr wyf yn ymwybodol o gyfraniad pysgotwyr rhwydi lave Hafren a physgodfeydd treftadaeth yn eu cyfanrwydd. Fel yr eglurais o’r blaen, nid oes cynigion i atal pysgodfeydd treftadaeth. Yr wyf yn disgwyl am y cynllun a ddaw i law yr wythnos nesaf i weld i ba gyfeiriad yr awn ar hyn. Fodd bynnag, ni wnaed penderfyniad. Pe deuai unrhyw gynigion oddi wrth Asiantaeth yr Amgylchedd, byddai proses ymgynghori lawn y gallem gymryd rhan ynddi. Mae’r Llywodraeth hon yn cydymdeimlo â’r pysgodfeydd treftadaeth yn aber Hafren.

On David’s point about net sizes, the UK Government and the National Assembly have continually pressed for the uniform enforcement of net sizes throughout the European Union. That is a crucial issue, which we will continue to fight for across the EU. Quality, which many Members mentioned, is important, because there are great benefits to Wales, particularly regarding recreational fishing. The number of people who fish recreationally in Wales has declined, yet it is still our greatest sport; more people take part in it than in any other sport. We want to ensure that, in terms of the economy, recreational fishing’s contribution exceeds its current £100 million. The work that is being done on angling and tourism in general is crucial. We have the cheapest recreational fishing in the United Kingdom—it is far cheaper than in Scotland—and we can provide equal opportunities. There is a big role to be played by fishing clubs across Wales, which manage huge stretches of our rivers.

Ynghylch y pwynt a wnaeth David am feintiau rhwydi, mae Llywodraeth y DU a’r Cynulliad Cenedlaethol wedi pwyso’n barhaus am orfodi meintiau rhwydi’n gyson ledled yr Undeb Ewropeaidd. Mae hynny’n fater hollbwysig, a pharhawn i ymladd drosto ledled yr UE. Mae ansawdd, y cyfeiriodd llawer o Aelodau ato, yn bwysig, gan y daw â manteision mawr i Gymru, yn enwedig o ran pysgota hamdden. Bu gostyngiad yn nifer y pysgotwyr hamdden yng Nghymru, ond hwnnw yw’r mwyaf o’n chwaraeon o hyd; mae mwy yn cymryd rhan ynddo nag mewn unrhyw chwaraeon eraill. Yr ydym am sicrhau, yng nghyd-destun yr economi, fod pysgota hamdden yn cyfrannu mwy na’r £100 miliwn a geir oddi wrtho ar hyn o bryd. Mae’r gwaith a wneir ar enweirio ac ar dwristiaeth yn gyffredinol yn hollbwysig. Gennym ni y mae’r pysgota hamdden rhataf yn y Deyrnas Unedig—mae’n rhatach o lawer nag yn yr Alban—a gallwn ddarparu cyfleoedd cyfartal. Mae rôl bwysig i’w chwarae gan glybiau pysgota ledled Cymru, sy’n rheoli rhannau helaeth iawn o’n hafonydd.

Aquaculture is also an important issue, which Mick Bates and Brian Gibbons mentioned. There is great opportunity here, and it need not necessarily be alongside the sea. There is an interesting development in Gwynedd that has been taken beyond the pilot stage, whereby the development is not alongside the sea drawing seawater in, but uses recycled seawater, only taking water from the sea once every week. The opportunity for marketing and developing fish in this way is huge. We have been prepared to invest in that, although the investment opportunity must be matched by private sector companies that want to develop these processes. However, we are prepared to play our part in the substantial investment required.

Mae ffermio dŵr yn fater pwysig hefyd, ac fe’i crybwyllwyd gan Mick Bates a Brian Gibbons. Mae cyfle mawr yn hyn o beth, ac ni raid iddo fod ar lan y môr. Mae datblygiad diddorol yng Ngwynedd sydd wedi mynd ymhellach na’r cyfnod rhagbrofol, sydd heb fod ar lan y môr gan dynnu dŵr o’r môr, ond sy’n hytrach yn defnyddio dŵr môr a ailgylchwyd, a dynnir o’r môr unwaith yr wythnos yn unig. Mae cyfle aruthrol i farchnata a datblygu pysgod fel hyn. Buom yn barod i fuddsoddi yn hynny, er bod rhaid i gwmnïau sector preifat sydd am ddatblygu’r prosesau hyn roi arian cyfatebol yn y cyfle buddsoddi hwn. Fodd bynnag, yr ydym yn barod i chwarae ein rhan yn y buddsoddi sylweddol sydd ei angen.

There is a significant role to be played by the National Assembly Government in securing new jobs in aquaculture and recreational fishing. We can increase angling expenditure, for example, to a level that supports perhaps another 800 jobs across Wales in recreational fishing. All this depends on the consultation exercise that is about to take place, and I encourage Members to play a full part in contributing their views during the coming months.

Mae rôl bwysig i’w chwarae gan Lywodraeth Cynulliad Cymru wrth sicrhau swyddi newydd mewn ffermio dŵr a physgota hamdden. Gallwn gynyddu’r gwariant ar enweirio, er enghraifft, i lefel fydd yn cynnal 800 o swyddi eraill, o bosibl, mewn pysgota hamdden ledled Cymru. Mae hyn oll yn dibynnu ar yr ymgynghoriad sydd ar fin digwydd, ac yr wyf yn annog Aelodau i chwarae rhan lawn wrth roi eu barn yn ystod y misoedd i ddod.

Gwelliant 1 Rhodri Glyn Thomas t. 74

Amendment 1 Rhodri Glyn Thomas p. 74

GwrthodwydRejected O blaidFor 11 YmatalAbstain 0 Yn erbynAgainst 27

Gwrthodwyd y gwelliant.

Amendment rejected.

Sut y pleidleisiodd yr AelodauHow Members voted
O blaidFor (11)
  • Nick Bourne
  • David Davies
  • Glyn Davies
  • Janet Davies
  • Jocelyn Davies
  • William Graham
  • Helen Mary Jones
  • David Melding
  • Janet Ryder
  • Owen John Thomas
  • Rhodri Glyn Thomas
Yn erbynAgainst (27)
  • Lorraine Barrett
  • Mick Bates
  • Peter Black
  • Rosemary Butler
  • Christine Chapman
  • Jane Davidson
  • Andrew Davies
  • Sue Essex
  • Delyth Evans
  • Michael German
  • Brian Gibbons
  • Janice Gregory
  • John Griffiths
  • Alison Halford
  • Edwina Hart
  • Jane Hutt
  • Ann Jones
  • Carwyn Jones
  • Peter Law
  • Huw Lewis
  • Val Lloyd
  • Rhodri Morgan
  • Lynne Neagle
  • Alun Pugh
  • Jenny Randerson
  • Karen Sinclair
  • Kirsty Williams

Gwelliant 2 Rhodri Glyn Thomas t. 74

Amendment 2 Rhodri Glyn Thomas p. 74

GwrthodwydRejected O blaidFor 11 YmatalAbstain 0 Yn erbynAgainst 28

Gwrthodwyd y gwelliant.

Amendment rejected.

Sut y pleidleisiodd yr AelodauHow Members voted
O blaidFor (11)
  • Nick Bourne
  • David Davies
  • Glyn Davies
  • Janet Davies
  • Jocelyn Davies
  • William Graham
  • David Ian Jones
  • Helen Mary Jones
  • David Melding
  • Owen John Thomas
  • Rhodri Glyn Thomas
Yn erbynAgainst (28)
  • Lorraine Barrett
  • Mick Bates
  • Peter Black
  • Eleanor Burnham
  • Rosemary Butler
  • Christine Chapman
  • Jane Davidson
  • Andrew Davies
  • Sue Essex
  • Delyth Evans
  • Michael German
  • Brian Gibbons
  • Janice Gregory
  • John Griffiths
  • Alison Halford
  • Edwina Hart
  • Jane Hutt
  • Ann Jones
  • Carwyn Jones
  • Peter Law
  • Huw Lewis
  • Val Lloyd
  • Rhodri Morgan
  • Lynne Neagle
  • Alun Pugh
  • Jenny Randerson
  • Karen Sinclair
  • Kirsty Williams

Gwelliant 3 Rhodri Glyn Thomas t. 75

Amendment 3 Rhodri Glyn Thomas p. 75

GwrthodwydRejected O blaidFor 12 YmatalAbstain 0 Yn erbynAgainst 28

Gwrthodwyd y gwelliant.

Amendment rejected.

Sut y pleidleisiodd yr AelodauHow Members voted
O blaidFor (12)
  • Nick Bourne
  • David Davies
  • Glyn Davies
  • Janet Davies
  • Jocelyn Davies
  • William Graham
  • David Ian Jones
  • Helen Mary Jones
  • David Melding
  • Janet Ryder
  • Owen John Thomas
  • Rhodri Glyn Thomas
Yn erbynAgainst (28)
  • Lorraine Barrett
  • Mick Bates
  • Peter Black
  • Eleanor Burnham
  • Rosemary Butler
  • Christine Chapman
  • Jane Davidson
  • Andrew Davies
  • Sue Essex
  • Delyth Evans
  • Michael German
  • Brian Gibbons
  • Janice Gregory
  • John Griffiths
  • Alison Halford
  • Edwina Hart
  • Jane Hutt
  • Ann Jones
  • Carwyn Jones
  • Peter Law
  • Huw Lewis
  • Val Lloyd
  • Rhodri Morgan
  • Lynne Neagle
  • Alun Pugh
  • Jenny Randerson
  • Karen Sinclair
  • Kirsty Williams

Gwelliant 4 Glyn Davies t. 75

Amendment 4 Glyn Davies p. 75

GwrthodwydRejected O blaidFor 12 YmatalAbstain 0 Yn erbynAgainst 28

Gwrthodwyd y gwelliant

Amendment rejected.

Sut y pleidleisiodd yr AelodauHow Members voted
O blaidFor (12)
  • Nick Bourne
  • David Davies
  • Glyn Davies
  • Janet Davies
  • Jocelyn Davies
  • William Graham
  • David Ian Jones
  • Helen Mary Jones
  • David Melding
  • Janet Ryder
  • Owen John Thomas
  • Rhodri Glyn Thomas
Yn erbynAgainst (28)
  • Lorraine Barrett
  • Mick Bates
  • Peter Black
  • Eleanor Burnham
  • Rosemary Butler
  • Christine Chapman
  • Jane Davidson
  • Andrew Davies
  • Sue Essex
  • Delyth Evans
  • Michael German
  • Brian Gibbons
  • Janice Gregory
  • John Griffiths
  • Alison Halford
  • Edwina Hart
  • Jane Hutt
  • Ann Jones
  • Carwyn Jones
  • Peter Law
  • Huw Lewis
  • Val Lloyd
  • Rhodri Morgan
  • Lynne Neagle
  • Alun Pugh
  • Jenny Randerson
  • Karen Sinclair
  • Kirsty Williams

Cynnig NDM1367 Michael German t. 76

Motion NDM1367 Michael German p. 76

DerbyniwydAdopted O blaidFor 40 YmatalAbstain 0 Yn erbynAgainst 0

Derbyniwyd y cynnig.

Motion carried.

Sut y pleidleisiodd yr AelodauHow Members voted
O blaidFor (40)
  • Lorraine Barrett
  • Mick Bates
  • Peter Black
  • Nick Bourne
  • Eleanor Burnham
  • Rosemary Butler
  • Christine Chapman
  • Jane Davidson
  • Andrew Davies
  • David Davies
  • Glyn Davies
  • Janet Davies
  • Jocelyn Davies
  • Sue Essex
  • Delyth Evans
  • Michael German
  • William Graham
  • Janice Gregory
  • John Griffiths
  • Brian Gibbons
  • Alison Halford
  • Edwina Hart
  • Jane Hutt
  • Ann Jones
  • Carwyn Jones
  • David Ian Jones
  • Helen Mary Jones
  • Peter Law
  • Huw Lewis
  • Val Lloyd
  • David Melding
  • Rhodri Morgan
  • Lynne Neagle
  • Alun Pugh
  • Jenny Randerson
  • Janet Ryder
  • Karen Sinclair
  • Owen John Thomas
  • Rhodri Glyn Thomas
  • Kirsty Williams

Hynt y Gwaith o Weithredu ‘Creative Future: Cymru Greadigol’

Progress on the Implementation of ‘Creative Future: Cymru Greadigol’

John Marek The Deputy Presiding Officer spoken in English p. 77

John Marek Y Dirprwy Lywydd siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 77

I have selected amendment 1 in the name of Jocelyn Davies and amendment 2 in the name of Jonathan Morgan.

Yr wyf wedi dethol gwelliant 1 yn enw Jocelyn Davies a gwelliant 2 yn enw Jonathan Morgan.

Jenny Randerson The Minister for Culture, Sport and the Welsh Language spoken in English p. 77

Jenny Randerson Y Gweinidog dros Ddiwylliant, Chwaraeon a’r Gymraeg siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 77

I propose that

Cynigiaf fod

Jenny Randerson The Minister for Culture, Sport and the Welsh Language (continued) spoken in English p. 77

Jenny Randerson Y Gweinidog dros Ddiwylliant, Chwaraeon a’r Gymraeg (parhad) siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 77

I am pleased to propose this motion, which recognises the considerable progress that we have made over the last year in taking forward our culture strategy, ‘Creative Future: Cymru Greadigol’. I circulated to Members on 25 February the paper that I presented to the Culture Committee on 5 February. It provided concrete examples of our achievements. When I launched ‘Creative Future: Cymru Greadigol’ last February, I stressed that we were embarking on an ambitious 10-year programme to place cultural issues higher on the agenda in Wales and I promised to report annually to the Assembly. Our aim was to achieve a cultural transformation. Increasing the range of cultural activities available to people in Wales and facilitating increased attendance and participation in such activities, while important components, were only part of the agenda. We set out a vision of a dynamic, creative and inclusive culture that would inspire and enrich the individual, the community and the economy.

Yr wyf yn falch o roi’r cynnig hwn gerbron, sy’n cydnabod y cynnydd sylweddol a wnaethom dros y flwyddyn ddiwethaf ar fwrw ymlaen â’n strategaeth ddiwylliant, ‘Creative Future: Cymru Greadigol’. Bu imi ddosbarthu ymysg Aelodau ar 25 Chwefror y papur a gyflwynais i’r Pwyllgor Diwylliant ar 5 Chwefror. Rhoddai enghreifftiau pendant o’n cyflawniadau. Pan lansiais ‘Creative Future: Cymru Greadigol’ fis Chwefror diwethaf, pwysleisiais ein bod yn cychwyn ar raglen 10 mlynedd uchelgeisiol i roi materion diwylliannol yn uwch ar yr agenda yng Nghymru ac addewais roi adroddiad bob blwyddyn i’r Cynulliad. Ein nod oedd cyflawni gweddnewidiad diwylliannol. Er mai elfennau pwysig yn hynny oedd ehangu’r amrywiaeth o weithgareddau diwylliannol sydd ar gael i bobl yng Nghymru a hybu’r niferoedd sy’n ymbresenoli ac yn cyfranogi mewn gweithgareddau o’r fath, dim ond un rhan o’r agenda oedd hynny. Cyflwynasom weledigaeth o ddiwylliant deinamig, creadigol a chynhwysol a fyddai’n ysbrydoli ac yn cyfoethogi’r unigolyn, y gymuned a’r economi.

I reject the two amendments tabled to this motion. Amendment 1 is mean-spirited. Does Plaid Cymru have such little regard for achievements such as the Wales Millennium Centre, the Swansea waterfront museum, the Welsh language national theatre, and ‘Iaith Pawb’, the final version of which was launched today? Amendment 2 is also inappropriate, in that it implies that the culture strategy does not cover parts of Wales. The fundamental principle of ‘Creative Future: Cymru Greadigol’ is that it is a national strategy in which all parts of Wales will participate and from which they will all benefit.

Gwrthodaf y ddau welliant a gyflwynwyd i’r cynnig hwn. Mae gwelliant 1 yn grintachlyd. A oes gan Blaid Cymru gyn lleied o feddwl o gyflawniadau fel Canolfan Mileniwm Cymru, amgueddfa y glannau yn Abertawe, y theatr genedlaethol Gymraeg, ac ‘Iaith Pawb’, y lansiwyd y fersiwn terfynol ohono heddiw? Mae gwelliant 2 yn amhriodol hefyd, gan ei fod yn awgrymu nad yw’r strategaeth ddiwylliant yn cynnwys rhai rhannau o Gymru. Egwyddor sylfaenol ‘Creative Future: Cymru Greadigol’ yw ei bod yn strategaeth genedlaethol y bydd pob rhan o Gymru’n cymryd rhan ynddi ac yn cael budd ohoni.

One year on, I am pleased to report that we have made significant progress across the board in terms of long-term and short-term goals alike. I foresaw the first year of this groundbreaking strategy as one where we would lay firm foundations for the future. Significant new money has been made available, more organisations have been supported, new strategies have been developed and new challenges identified.

Ar ôl blwyddyn, yr wyf yn falch o adrodd ein bod wedi gwneud cynnydd sylweddol yn gyffredinol ar y nodau tymor hir a thymor byr. Rhagwelais y byddai blwyddyn gyntaf y strategaeth arloesol hon yn un pan fyddem yn gosod sylfeini cadarn ar gyfer y dyfodol. Darparwyd arian newydd sylweddol, cefnogwyd rhagor o gyrff, datblygwyd strategaethau newydd a nodwyd heriau newydd.

In the opening section of ‘Creative Future: Cymru Greadigol’, I identified five key commitments for the Assembly Government. The first commitment was that cultural issues be firmly established as an important cross-cutting theme for the Assembly Government. Together, the appointment of a Minister responsible for culture and the work of the Culture Committee ensure that cultural issues have a higher profile than ever before. I thank Committee members for their support in taking forward some of the most exciting and interesting ideas in this strategy.

Yn adran agoriadol ‘Creative Future: Cymru Greadigol’, nodais bum ymrwymiad allweddol ar gyfer Llywodraeth y Cynulliad. Yr ymrwymiad cyntaf oedd y dylai materion diwylliannol gael eu gosod yn gadarn yn thema drawsbynciol bwysig i Lywodraeth y Cynulliad. O’u gosod ynghyd, mae penodi Gweinidog i fod yn gyfrifol am ddiwylliant a gwaith y Pwyllgor Diwylliant yn sicrhau mwy o amlygrwydd i faterion diwylliannol nag erioed o’r blaen. Diolchaf i aelodau’r Pwyllgor am eu cefnogaeth wrth fwrw ymlaen â rhai o’r syniadau mwyaf cyffrous a diddorol yn y strategaeth hon.

Appreciation of cultural issues, however, now permeates the development of policy in all areas of the Assembly Government. Music, art and drama have an enhanced role in our schools, our sustainable communities strategy emphasises the social and other benefits of community cultural activities, our emerging sports strategy will link closely into our health promotion policies and, in terms of economic development, we are taking great strides in our cultural tourism and major events strategies.

Bellach, fodd bynnag, mae dealltwriaeth o faterion diwylliannol yn hydreiddio’r gwaith o ddatblygu polisi yn holl feysydd Llywodraeth y Cynulliad. Mae rôl amlycach i gerddoriaeth, celfyddyd a drama yn ein hysgolion, mae ein strategaeth cymunedau cynaliadwy’n rhoi pwys ar y budd a geir o weithgareddau diwylliannol cymunedol, yn gymdeithasol ac fel arall, bydd ein strategaeth chwaraeon, sydd ar y gweill, yn ymgysylltu’n agos â’n polisïau hybu iechyd ac, yng nghyd-destun datblygu economaidd, yr ydym yn cymryd camau bras ar ein strategaethau twristiaeth ddiwylliannol a digwyddiadau mawr.

We are working closely with other organisations in pursuit of the second and third commitments made in ‘Creative Future: Cymru Greadigol’. Local government is a key partner in delivering the culture strategy. It is responsible for maintaining and supporting so many cultural facilities and events that engage at a community, regional and, sometimes, national level. All local authorities are actively involved in supporting and promoting cultural activities, and I am pleased to say that most authorities have started working on, or have published, their own local culture strategies, which are important for engaging local people.

Yr ydym yn cydweithio’n agos â chyrff eraill wrth symud ymlaen â’r ail a’r trydydd ymrwymiad a wneir yn ‘Creative Future: Cymru Greadigol’. Mae llywodraeth leol yn bartner allweddol wrth roi’r strategaeth ddiwylliant ar waith. Mae’n gyfrifol am gynnal a chefnogi cymaint o gyfleusterau a digwyddiadau diwylliannol sy’n cynnwys pobl ar lefel gymunedol, lefel ranbarthol ac, weithiau, ar lefel genedlaethol. Mae’r holl awdurdodau lleol yn cymryd rhan weithredol mewn cefnogi a hyrwyddo gweithgareddau diwylliannol, ac yr wyf yn falch o ddweud bod y rhan fwyaf o awdurdodau wedi dechrau paratoi, neu wedi cyhoeddi, eu strategaethau diwylliant lleol eu hunain, sy’n bwysig er mwyn cynnwys pobl leol.

Our third commitment was to ensure a strong, well-funded and efficient arts council. The 2002-03 budget saw an 11 per cent increase for culture, the largest for any portfolio. I was able to devote a significant proportion of that increase to the Arts Council of Wales, enabling it to support more organisations, complete its internal reorganisation and produce a five-year arts development strategy. The arts council has also reviewed its funding mechanisms and now operates a much simplified grant application process. I cannot overemphasise the importance of that.

Ein trydydd ymrwymiad oedd sicrhau cyngor celfyddydau cryf, effeithlon â chyllid digonol. Bu cynnydd o 11 y cant ar gyfer diwylliant yng nghyllideb 2002-03, sef y cynnydd mwyaf ar gyfer unrhyw bortffolio. Gallais neilltuo cyfran helaeth o’r cynnydd hwnnw ar gyfer Cyngor Celfyddydau Cymru, gan ei alluogi i gefnogi rhagor o gyrff, i gwblhau ei ad-drefnu mewnol ac i gynhyrchu strategaeth bum mlynedd ar gyfer datblygu’r celfyddydau. Yn ogystal â hynny, mae cyngor y celfyddydau wedi adolygu ei fecanweithiau cyllido ac mae bellach yn gweithredu proses ymgeisio am grant sy’n symlach o lawer. Ni allwn orbwysleisio pwysigrwydd hynny.

Our fourth commitment was to facilitate the effective co-ordination of planning and activity across all cultural bodies. For that purpose, we set up Cymru’n Creu, a cultural consortium that brings together, under my chairmanship, the strategic national bodies such as the arts council, the Sports Council for Wales, the National Museums and Galleries of Wales, the Welsh Local Government Association, and the business development perspective of the Welsh Development Agency and the Wales Tourist Board. In addition to all that, the broadcasters also attend. This body goes well beyond those bodies funded in my portfolio.

Ein pedwerydd ymrwymiad oedd hwyluso cydlynu effeithiol ar gynllunio a gweithgareddau rhwng yr holl gyrff diwylliannol. I’r diben hwnnw, sefydlasom Cymru’n Creu, consortiwm diwylliannol sy’n cynnull, o dan fy nghadeiryddiaeth i, y cyrff cenedlaethol strategol fel cyngor y celfyddydau, Cyngor Chwaraeon Cymru, Amgueddfeydd ac Orielau Cenedlaethol Cymru, Cymdeithas Llywodraeth Leol Cymru, a’r agwedd datblygu busnes ar Awdurdod Datblygu Cymru a Bwrdd Croeso Cymru. Yn ogystal â’r rhain i gyd, mae’r darlledwyr hefyd yn mynychu’r cyfarfodydd. Mae’r corff hwn yn mynd ymhell y tu hwnt i’r cyrff hynny a gyllidir yn fy mhortffolio.

Cymru’n Creu provides a strategic overview of culture policy, and is a forum for co-ordinating activities and encouraging the exchange of ideas and best practice. It also monitors and facilitates progress on ‘Creative Future: Cymru Greadigol’. At the meeting of Cymru’n Creu in February, the consortium considered a detailed matrix of all the ‘Creative Future: Cymru Greadigol’ action plans. The matrix identified progress against each action point, and also identified where progress is slow, or where there are obstacles. I am pleased to report that out of 103 individual action points from 2001-03, only eight are incomplete or not yet started. Cymru’n Creu has considered the matrix and has made comments on it, and that will go to the Culture Committee later this month.

Mae Cymru’n Creu yn darparu trosolwg strategol ar bolisi diwylliant, ac mae’n fforwm ar gyfer cydlynu gweithgareddau a hyrwyddo cyfnewid syniadau ac arferion gorau. Mae hefyd yn monitro ac yn hwyluso’r cynnydd a wneir ar ‘Creative Future: Cymru Greadigol’. Yng nghyfarfod Cymru’n Creu ym mis Chwefror, ystyriodd y consortiwm fatrics manwl o holl gynlluniau gweithredu ‘Creative Future: Cymru Greadigol’. Yr oedd y matrics yn nodi’r cynnydd a wnaed ar bob pwynt gweithredu, ac yn nodi hefyd lle y mae’r cynnydd yn araf, neu lle y ceir rhwystrau. Yr wyf yn falch o adrodd mai dim ond wyth o blith y 103 o bwyntiau gweithredu unigol o 2001-03 sydd heb eu cwblhau neu heb eu cychwyn eto. Mae Cymru’n Creu wedi ystyried y matrics ac wedi gwneud sylwadau arno, ac aiff hynny gerbron y Pwyllgor Diwylliant yn ddiweddarach y mis hwn.

The fifth commitment was to extract cultural value from a wide range of public and private expenditure. This links closely with our policy of mainstreaming and raising the profile of cultural issues across the Assembly Government’s responsibilities. Cultural development is a key component of our community strategy, of our efforts to improve the international perception of Wales, and of our promotion of the Welsh language. The establishment of the culture fund is another major step forward in maximising the cultural value of our expenditure. It brings together in one Assembly Government funding regime all the programme expenditure in my portfolio. This will enable me to respond strategically to priorities in the culture strategy and target funding to need, while retaining the ability to respond more flexibly to in-year pressures. The culture fund, piloted this year, starts in earnest in 2003-04, and denotes a further significant financial growth for the culture portfolio.

Y pumed ymrwymiad oedd cael gwerth diwylliannol o amrywiaeth eang o wariant cyhoeddus a phreifat. Mae cysylltiad agos rhwng hyn a’n polisi o hybu amlygrwydd materion diwylliannol o dan holl gyfrifoldebau Llywodraeth y Cynulliad a’u gosod yn y brif ffrwd. Mae datblygu diwylliannol yn elfen allweddol yn ein strategaeth gymunedol, yn ein hymdrechion i wella’r canfyddiad o Gymru’n rhyngwladol, a’n gwaith o hyrwyddo’r Gymraeg. Mae sefydlu’r gronfa diwylliant yn gam mawr arall ymlaen o ran sicrhau’r gwerth diwylliannol mwyaf posibl yn ein gwariant. Mae’n cyfuno mewn un gyfundrefn gyllido o eiddo Llywodraeth y Cynulliad yr holl wariant ar raglenni yn fy mhortffolio. Bydd hyn yn fy ngalluogi i ymateb yn strategol i’r blaenoriaethau yn y strategaeth ddiwylliant ac i dargedu cyllid ar anghenion, gan gadw’r gallu i ymateb yn fwy hyblyg i bwysau o fewn y flwyddyn. Mae’r gronfa diwylliant, a ragbrofwyd eleni, yn dechrau o ddifrif yn 2003-04, ac yn arwydd o dwf sylweddol pellach yn y cyllid ar gyfer y portffolio diwylliant.

The first year of ‘Creative Future: Cymru Greadigol’ was marked by solid achievement. Its launch was a major new investment in terms of funding and developing policy. New ideas, new structures and new strategies were needed across the board. We are already building on those foundations, and moving forward with new schemes for drama, chamber orchestras, film, and so on, to put alongside our flagship projects: the WMC—the Wales Millennium Centre, the Swansea Maritime Museum, ‘Iaith Pawb’, Cardiff’s bid to be Cultural Capital of Europe 2008, a new Newport arts centre, and the proposed theatre in Wrexham. I look forward to Members’ contributions—

Cafwyd cyflawniadau pendant ym mlwyddyn gyntaf ‘Creative Future: Cymru Greadigol’. Yr oedd ei lansio’n fuddsoddiad newydd o bwys o ran cyllid a datblygu polisi. Yr oedd angen syniadau newydd, strwythurau newydd a strategaethau newydd yn gyffredinol. Yr ydym yn adeiladu ar y sylfeini hynny’n barod, ac yn bwrw ymlaen â chynlluniau newydd ar gyfer drama, cerddorfeydd siambr, ffilm, ac yn y blaen, i’w rhoi ochr yn ochr â’n prif gynlluniau: WMC—Canolfan Mileniwm Cymru, Amgueddfa Genedlaethol y Glannau, Abertawe, ‘Iaith Pawb’, cais Caerdydd i ddod yn Brifddinas Diwylliant Ewrop 2008, canolfan gelfyddydau newydd yng Nghasnewydd, a’r theatr arfaethedig yn Wrecsam. Edrychaf ymlaen at glywed cyfraniadau’r Aelodau—

Peter Law spoken in English p. 81

Peter Law siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 81

You used the magical abbreviation, ‘WMC’, which brought me to life. Bearing in mind what I have said in the Chamber in the past about the amount of money that is being spent on that extravaganza, are you satisfied that these policies and strategies address the needs of the deprived areas in Wales, which hitherto have had so few resources? For instance, will funding be available centrally for the wonderful amateur organisations in these poorer communities, which make up the mainstay of cultural entertainment, and which at present cannot receive any support, even if they represent Wales abroad proudly? Has there been any progress on that?

Gwnaethoch ddefnyddio’r byrfodd hudol, ‘WMC’, a hynny a’m bywiogodd. Gan gofio’r hyn a ddywedais yn y Siambr yn y gorffennol am y swm o arian a gaiff ei wario ar y sbloets honno, a ydych yn fodlon bod y polisïau a’r strategaethau hyn yn ymdrin ag anghenion yr ardaloedd difreintiedig yng Nghymru, a gafodd gyn lleied o adnoddau hyd yn hyn? Er enghraifft, a fydd cyllid ar gael yn ganolog ar gyfer y cyrff amatur gwych yn yr ardaloedd tlotach hyn, sy’n brif gynheiliaid adloniant diwylliannol, na allant gael unrhyw gymorth ar hyn o bryd, er eu bod yn cynrychioli Cymru dramor ac yn falch o wneud hynny? A fu unrhyw gynnydd ar hynny?

Jenny Randerson spoken in English p. 81

Jenny Randerson siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 81

Last week, with the arts council, we jointly launched a new youth arts strategy worth £1.7 million. That involves significant new money that is going to community development and to youth development of the arts, and is dealing with several pilot projects of different schemes throughout Wales. It is exactly the kind of thing that you have raised in the Chamber for a long time. In terms of money flowing through to community arts, the pace is picking up considerably. I agree with Peter Law—which is worrying—with regard to his concern about the availability of funding for the representation of Wales abroad. I have asked the arts council to look at that issue, specifically in terms of funding. It is not only about Wales abroad, but also about Wales in the UK. It is easier to get money to represent Wales in France than at an event in England. That is one of the old rules that the arts council has inherited; it is currently considering that.

Yr wythnos diwethaf, gyda chyngor y celfyddydau, gwnaethom lansio ar y cyd strategaeth gelfyddydau ieuenctid newydd sy’n werth £1.7 miliwn. Mae’n cynnwys arian newydd sylweddol a aiff at ddatblygu cymunedol ac at ddatblygu’r celfyddydau ymysg pobl ifanc, ac mae’n delio â sawl prosiect peilot mewn gwahanol gynlluniau ledled Cymru. Dyna’r union fath o beth yr ydych yn ei godi yn y Siambr ers talwm. O ran y llif o arian i gelfyddydau cymunedol, mae hynny’n cyflymu’n sylweddol. Cytunaf â Peter Law—rhywbeth sy’n peri gofid—mewn cysylltiad â’i bryder ynghylch y ddarpariaeth o gyllid i gynrychioli Cymru dramor. Yr wyf wedi gofyn i gyngor y celfyddydau ystyried y mater hwnnw, yng nghyd-destun cyllido yn benodol. Nid Cymru dramor yn unig sydd dan sylw, ond Cymru yn y DU hefyd. Mae’n haws cael arian i gynrychioli Cymru yn Ffrainc nag mewn digwyddiad yn Lloegr. Dyna un o’r hen reolau y mae cyngor y celfyddydau wedi’i hetifeddu; mae’n ystyried hynny ar hyn o bryd.

This debate fulfils my promise of giving Members the opportunity to review progress annually.

Mae’r ddadl hon yn cyflawni fy addewid i roi cyfle i Aelodau adolygu’r cynnydd bob blwyddyn.

Eleanor Burnham spoken in English p. 82

Eleanor Burnham siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 82

We are proud of you: you have been a creative and effective Minister for Culture, Sport and Welsh Language in this partnership Government. I highly commend the examples of creative tourism that I have seen in Denbighshire, such as the Ruthin Craft Centre. They are real assets for local tourism and economic development. However, can you tell me when the cultural tourism strategy will be available?

Yr ydym yn falch ohonoch: buoch yn greadigol ac yn effeithiol fel y Gweinidog dros Ddiwylliant, Chwaraeon a’r Gymraeg yn y Llywodraeth bartneriaeth hon. Canmolaf yn fawr yr enghreifftiau o dwristiaeth greadigol a welais yn Sir Ddinbych, fel Canolfan Grefftau Rhuthun. Maent yn asedau gwirioneddol ar gyfer twristiaeth a datblygu economaidd yn lleol. Fodd bynnag, a allwch ddweud wrthyf pa bryd y bydd y strategaeth twristiaeth ddiwylliannol ar gael?

Jenny Randerson spoken in English p. 82

Jenny Randerson siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 82

I agree with you about the importance of cultural tourism. The cultural tourism strategy will be available soon, but that is a matter for Andrew Davies, and I cannot speak on his behalf.

Cytunaf â chi fod twristiaeth ddiwylliannol yn bwysig. Bydd y strategaeth twristiaeth ddiwylliannol ar gael cyn hir, ond mater i Andrew Davies yw hynny, ac ni allaf siarad ar ei ran.

I will be interested to hear good contributions. This is your opportunity. ‘Creative Future: Cymru Greadigol’ is a 10-year strategy that is bound to evolve; there will be successes and failures. This is a good opportunity to put forward new ideas for a creative future in Wales.

Bydd o ddiddordeb imi glywed cyfraniadau da. Dyma’ch cyfle. Mae ‘Creative Future: Cymru Greadigol’ yn strategaeth 10 mlynedd sy’n sicr o ddatblygu; bydd llwyddiannau a methiannau. Dyma gyfle da i gyflwyno syniadau newydd ar gyfer dyfodol creadigol yng Nghymru.

Owen John Thomas siaradwyd yn Gymraeg t. 82

Owen John Thomas spoken in Welsh p. 82

Cynigiaf welliant 1 yn enw Jocelyn Davies. Gwelliant 1: dileu ‘croesawu’ a rhoi ‘nodi’ yn ei le.

I propose amendment 1 in the name of Jocelyn Davies. Amendment 1: delete ‘welcomes’ and replace with ‘notes’.

Owen John Thomas (parhad) siaradwyd yn Gymraeg t. 82

Owen John Thomas (continued) spoken in Welsh p. 82

Mae’r strategaeth ar gyfer diwylliant yng Nghymru, ‘Creative Future: Cymru Greadigol’ yn ddogfen swmpus sy’n cynnwys 114 o argymhellion. Dylid cyflawni 103 ohonynt erbyn diwedd y mis hwn. Yr wyf yn falch bod gan y strategaeth amserlen: mae hynny’n arferiad digon cyffredin ond un na ddefnyddiodd y Gweinidog yn ei dogfen ddiweddaraf ‘Iaith Pawb’. Yr wyf hefyd yn falch bod y gweithgareddau a nodir yn y strategaeth ar gyfer cyrff a noddir gan y Cynulliad wedi eu cynnwys yn llythyrau cylch gorchwyl y Gweinidog. Gyda chynllun mor uchelgeisiol, mae’n hanfodol bod y partneriaid i gyd yn gyfarwydd â’u cyfrifoldebau.

The culture strategy for Wales, ‘Creative Future: Cymru Greadigol’ is a substantial document, which lists 114 recommendations. One hundred and three of those should be achieved by the end of this month. I am glad that this strategy has a timetable: that is not uncommon, but the Minister did not take that approach in her last document, ‘Iaith Pawb’. I am also glad that the activities noted in the strategy for Assembly sponsored public bodies are included in the Minister’s remit letters. With such an ambitious scheme, it is essential that all partners are aware of their responsibilities.

Fodd bynnag, pwy sy’n monitro’r strategaeth ac yn paratoi adroddiadau rheolaidd er mwyn sicrhau bod pob Corff Cyhoeddus a Noddir gan y Cynulliad yn cyflawni ei amcanion yn brydlon ac yn gywir? Nid oes gan ‘Creative Future: Cymru Greadigol’ ysgrifenyddiaeth benodedig. A yw’r Gweinidog o ddifrif yn disgwyl y caiff 114 o argymhellion y strategaeth eu cyflawni’n briodol heb gorff i fynd â’r maen i’r wal? Weinidog, a wnewch ailystyried creu ysgrifenyddiaeth benodedig ar gyfer ‘Creative Future: Cymru Greadigol’ er mwyn sicrhau bod y strategaeth yn cael ei chyflawni a bod y broses yn cael ei monitro’n gyson, yn fanwl ac yn dryloyw?

However, who will monitor the strategy and prepare regular updates to ensure that every ASPB achieves its aims properly and on time? ‘Creative Future: Cymru Greadigol’ does not have an appointed secretariat. Does the Minister seriously expect the strategy’s 114 recommendations to be achieved appropriately without a body to move the agenda forward? Will you reconsider your decision not to create a specific secretariat for ‘Creative Future: Cymru Greadigol’, which would ensure that the strategy is delivered and that the process is monitored regularly, in detail and transparently?

Er nad yw ‘Creative Future: Cymru Greadigol’ yn sôn am gostau’r argymhellion, mae’r cynnydd o £38 miliwn yng nghyllideb y Gweinidog dros gyfnod y strategaeth yn awgrymu y bydd y gost yn sylweddol. Eto, nid yw’r Gweinidog wedi paratoi adroddiad i’r Pwyllgor Diwylliant nac i’r Cynulliad yn datgan i ble yn union mae’r arian ychwanegol yn mynd a sut y mae’r broses o gyflawni’r strategaeth yn datblygu. Croesewais y strategaeth pan lawnsiwyd hi y llynedd, ond byddwn yn defnyddio’r gair ‘nodi’ yn awr yn absenoldeb gwybodaeth ddigonol ynghylch cost a chyflwyniad y strategaeth.

Although ‘Creative Future: Cymru Greadigol’ does not mention the cost of the recommendations, the increase of £38 million in the Minister’s budget over the period of the strategy’s delivery suggests that the cost will be significant. Yet, the Minister has not prepared a report for the Culture Committee or the Assembly stating where exactly the additional money is going and how the process of delivering the strategy is developing. I welcomed the strategy when it was launched last year but I would use the word ‘note’ now in the absence of sufficient information on the cost and delivery of the strategy.

Er gwaethaf adroddiadau misol y Gweinidog i’r Pwyllgor Diwylliant, nid ydym wedi derbyn digon o wybodaeth am y 103 o argymhellion y dylid eu cyflawni erbyn diwedd mis Mawrth. Ni allwn ddweud ein bod yn croesawu’r sefyllfa bresennol; mae’n parhau’n ddirgelwch i ni. Yr ydym wedi clywed gan y Gweinidog am nifer o’r argymhellion sydd wedi cael eu cyflawni eisoes, ac, yn sicr, mae’r strategaeth yn cynnwys llawer o amcanion clodwiw. Fodd bynnag, holaf am rai o’r argymhellion nad yw’r Gweinidog wedi manylu arnynt yn ei haraith. Rhoddwyd i Ddysgu ac Addysgu Cymru y dasg o adolygu cyfleoedd hyfforddi i’r sawl sydd yn mynd i mewn i broffesiynau diwylliannol. Beth yw’r sefyllfa erbyn hyn? Mae llwyddiant llawer o fentrau a gweithgareddau diwylliannol yn dibynnu ar ysgrifenwyr creadigol i ddarparu’r deunydd crai ym maes darlledu, drama, ffilm a llenyddiaeth, er enghraifft. A yw Cyngor Celfyddydau Cymru wedi llwyddo i neilltuo arian ychwanegol ar gyfer hyn, ac, os felly, faint o arian? I ba raddau ydych wedi llwyddo, ynghyd â Chymdeithas Llywodraeth Leol Cymru, i annog awdurdodau lleol i wneud materion diwylliannol yn elfen allweddol yn eu cynlluniau cymunedol? Pa gamau sydd wedi’u cymryd tuag at adolygu’r dewisiadau ar gyfer darparu amgueddfa un-stop i ddangos hanes y wlad ac i olrhain ei brwydr am oroesiad a’i datblygiad dros y canrifoedd, fel y mae amgueddfa hanes cenedlaethol Catalwni ym Marcelona yn ei wneud? A ydych yn fodlon â’r camau mae Awdurdod Cymwysterau Cwricwlwm ac Asesu Cymru wedi’u cymryd wrth ymateb i amcan y strategaeth i gryfhau’r cwricwlwm Cymreig? Y flwyddyn 2001-02 oedd y targed am hyn.

Despite the Minister’s monthly reports to the Culture Committee, not enough information has been provided about the 103 recommendations that are due to be implemented by the end of March. We cannot say that we welcome the situation as it stands; it continues to be a mystery to us. We have heard from the Minister about several recommendations that have already been implemented, and the strategy certainly includes many commendable aims. However, I will ask about some of the recommendations on which the Minister did not give details in her speech. Education and Learning Wales was given the task of reviewing the training opportunities available to those entering cultural professions. What is the current situation? The success of many cultural initiatives and activities depends on creative writers providing the core material in broadcasting, drama, film, and literature for example. Has the Arts Council of Wales succeeded in allocating additional money for this, and, if so, how much? To what extent have you, along with the Welsh Local Government Association, succeeded in encouraging local authorities to make cultural matters a key element of their community plans? What steps have been taken towards reviewing the options for providing a one-stop museum showing the country’s history, and tracing its struggle for survival and its development over the centuries, as the national history museum of Catalonia in Barcelona does? Are you happy with the steps that the Qualifications, Curriculum and Assessment Authority for Wales has taken in responding to the strategy’s objective of strengthening the Welsh curriculum? The target for this was 2001-02.

Nid oes amser imi godi pob cwestiwn sydd angen ei drafod—mae 114 yn nifer sylweddol o amcanion—ond mae uchelgais ac helaethrwydd ‘Creative Future: Cymru Greadigol’ yn galw am gyfundrefn fanwl a chyson i reoli cynnydd a chost y strategaeth bwysig hon. A wnaiff y Gweinidog ymdrin â hyn fel mater o frys?

I do not have enough time to raise every question that needs to be discussed—114 is a significant number of recommendations—but the ambition and scope of ‘Creative Future: Cymru Greadigol’ requires a consistent and comprehensive system to monitor the progress and cost of this important strategy. Will the Minister deal with this as a matter of urgency?

Glyn Davies spoken in English p. 84

Glyn Davies siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 84

I propose amendment 2 in the name of Jonathan Morgan. After ‘new targets’ insert:

Cynigiaf welliant 2 yn enw Jonathan Morgan. Ar ôl ‘targedau newydd’, ychwanegu:

Glyn Davies (continued) spoken in English p. 84

Glyn Davies (parhad) siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 84

The increased focus on culture as a way of promoting Wales and its economy is a genuine success story for the National Assembly. I was involved, 15 or 20 years ago, in seeking to develop cultural events in Wales and found it difficult to successfully argue that staging a cultural event could produce jobs and success more effectively than building a factory or opening a new road to a new estate. Thinking has changed significantly, and I believe that establishing the Assembly, the Culture Committee and the post of Minister for Culture, Sport and the Welsh Language have played a significant part in that. There is no doubt that the sort of detailed discussion that the Minister wants is now easier to find in ongoing debates in the Culture Committee.

Mae’r pwyslais cynyddol ar ddiwylliant fel modd i hyrwyddo Cymru a’i heconomi wedi bod yn llwyddiant mawr i’r Cynulliad Cenedlaethol. Bymtheg neu 20 mlynedd yn ôl, bûm yn gysylltiedig â cheisio datblygu digwyddiadau diwylliannol yng Nghymru ac fe’i cefais yn anodd dadlau’n argyhoeddiadol y byddai llwyfannu digwyddiad diwylliannol yn gallu creu swyddi a llwyddiant yn fwy effeithiol nag y byddai codi ffatri neu agor ffordd newydd i ystâd newydd. Bu cryn newid meddwl, a chredaf fod sefydlu’r Cynulliad, y Pwyllgor Diwylliant a swydd y Gweinidog dros Ddiwylliant, Chwaraeon a’r Gymraeg wedi chwarae rhan sylweddol yn hynny. Nid oes dwywaith nad yw’r math o drafodaeth fanwl y mae’r Gweinidog am ei gael yn haws ei gael bellach yn y dadleuon cyfredol yn y Pwyllgor Diwylliant.

Culture has a dramatic impact on Wales’s reputation. Eisteddfodau have carried the name of Wales to all parts of the world and there is potential to build on this. I have always been concerned—and the Minister touched on it today—

Caiff diwylliant effaith drawiadol ar yr enw da sydd gan Gymru. Mae eisteddfodau wedi mynd ag enw Cymru i bedwar ban byd ac mae cyfle i adeiladu ar sail hynny. Bûm yn bryderus erioed—a chyfeiriodd y Gweinidog at hyn heddiw—

David Melding spoken in English p. 85

David Melding siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 85

Do you agree that it would be splendid if Iolo Morganwg were to be commemorated with a public statue so that his outstanding contribution, which I regard as one of the greatest achievements of the romantic movement in Britain, could be duly recognised in his own land?

A ydych yn cytuno y byddai’n wych pe câi Iolo Morganwg ei goffáu drwy godi cerflun cyhoeddus ohono fel y gellid cydnabod ei gyfraniad eithriadol, a ystyriaf yn un o gyflawniadau mwyaf y mudiad rhamantaidd ym Mhrydain, fel y dylid yn ei wlad ei hun?

Glyn Davies spoken in English p. 85

Glyn Davies siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 85

That would be wonderful. I have established a gorsedd circle in my garden, and have been considering what I might put alongside it. It could be a suitable location for a statue of Iolo Morganwg.

Byddai hynny’n ardderchog. Yr wyf wedi gosod cylch gorsedd yn fy ngardd, a bûm yn ystyried beth y gallwn ei roi wrth ei ochr. Gallai fod yn lle addas i roi cerflun o Iolo Morganwg.

Alun Cairns a gododd—

Alun Cairns rose—

Glyn Davies spoken in English p. 85

Glyn Davies siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 85

I will not give way, as I want to move on now. The Minister mentioned the increased attendance at events and attractions in Wales, which I welcome. However, I do not believe, Minister, that you have properly addressed the effect that free entry to several attractions has on private sector attractions that must charge. This is an important issue and you have not yet addressed it.

Nid ildiaf, gan fy mod am symud ymlaen yn awr. Soniodd y Gweinidog am y niferoedd cynyddol a ddaw i ddigwyddiadau ac atyniadau yng Nghymru, a chroesawaf hynny. Fodd bynnag, Weinidog, ni chredaf eich bod wedi ymdrin yn briodol â’r effaith y mae peidio â chodi tâl mynediad i sawl atyniad yn ei chael ar atyniadau yn y sector preifat sy’n gorfod codi tâl. Mae hyn yn fater pwysig ac nid ydych wedi ymdrin ag ef eto.

I congratulate the Arts Council of Wales on making some progress over the last few years. Two years ago, many people in Wales, including the Conservative Party at the time, were asking whether it was sensible to retain the Arts Council of Wales or whether it should be abolished. This has been addressed to some extent. I would not call for the abolition of the arts council today. It has moved on, which is good and I congratulate it. However, such a quango must be careful to fully utilise its expertise and to respect its independence. We do not want you, Minister, or the First Minister, to ask the arts council to deliver headline-grabbing initiatives for you and with which you wish to be associated. You should be careful to allow the arts council to make an announcement when it wishes to do so. It is dangerous for quangos to become too associated with Government propaganda. Before the National Eisteddfod at St Davids last year, the Chairman of the Welsh Language Board issued a most ridiculous statement, explaining that a propaganda document published by this Government before the Eisteddfod was the most important step forwards in the last 30 years. That was utterly ridiculous. That seriously damaged the quango’s reputation and respect for it. Care must be taken to recognise these bodies’ independence.

Llongyfarchaf Gyngor Celfyddydau Cymru ar wneud rhywfaint o gynnydd dros y blynyddoedd diwethaf. Ddwy flynedd yn ôl, yr oedd llawer yng Nghymru, gan gynnwys y Blaid Geidwadol ar y pryd, yn gofyn a oedd yn synhwyrol cadw Cyngor Celfyddydau Cymru neu a ddylid ei ddiddymu. Cafwyd ateb i hynny i ryw raddau. Ni fyddwn yn galw am ddiddymu cyngor y celfyddydau heddiw. Mae wedi symud ymlaen, sy’n beth da ac yr wyf yn ei longyfarch. Er hynny, rhaid i gwango o’r fath ymorol am ddefnyddio ei arbenigedd i’r eithaf a pharchu ei annibyniaeth. Nid ydym yn dymuno i chi, Weinidog, neu’r Prif Weinidog, ofyn i gyngor y celfyddydau gyflawni mentrau ar eich rhan sy’n bachu’r penawdau ac y dymunwch gael eich cysylltu â hwy. Dylech ofalu gadael i gyngor y celfyddydau wneud cyhoeddiad pan yw’n dymuno gwneud hynny. Mae’n beryglus i gwangos gael eu cysylltu’n rhy agos â phropaganda Llywodraeth. Cyn yr Eisteddfod Genedlaethol yn Nhŷ Ddewi y llynedd, cyhoeddodd Cadeirydd Bwrdd yr Iaith Gymraeg y datganiad mwyaf chwerthinllyd, yn egluro mai dogfen bropaganda a gyhoeddwyd gan y Llywodraeth hon cyn yr Eisteddfod oedd y cam pwysicaf ymlaen ers 30 mlynedd. Yr oedd hynny’n gwbl chwerthinllyd. Gwnaeth hynny niwed difrifol i enw da’r cwango a’r parch tuag ato. Rhaid gofalu cydnabod annibyniaeth y cyrff hyn.

On our amendment, despite being a huge success, the development of the Wales Millennium Centre—which I supported and the progress of which is exciting—has led to a perception in the rest of Wales that every new development goes to Cardiff. Peter Law, to some extent, expressed that view in his contribution today and has done so on several previous occasions. I know that a small pot is being set aside by the Finance Minister to deal with this matter, but we must go further than that. The task for you, and others who speak on culture in Wales, is to use every opportunity to satisfy all parts of Wales and assure them that they are being properly treated because, strangely enough, the massive success of this Wales Millennium Centre reinforces the aforementioned perception. I will not go into detail to justify the points that people have made, but one of the major challenges that you, or your successor following the election, must face over the next year or so, is to ensure that all of Wales benefits from what happens in terms of focusing on culture over the next few years.

Ynghylch ein gwelliant, er ei fod yn llwyddiant aruthrol, mae’r gwaith o ddatblygu Canolfan Mileniwm Cymru—a gefnogais ac y caf y cynnydd a wneir arni’n gyffrous—wedi arwain at ganfyddiad yng ngweddill Cymru fod pob datblygiad newydd yn mynd i Gaerdydd. Gwnaeth Peter Law fynegi’r farn honno, i ryw raddau, yn ei gyfraniad heddiw a gwnaeth hynny sawl gwaith o’r blaen. Gwn fod y Gweinidog Cyllid yn neilltuo pot bach o arian i ddelio â’r mater hwn, ond rhaid inni fynd ymhellach na hynny. Y dasg sydd gennych chi, ac eraill sy’n siarad ar bwnc diwylliant yng Nghymru, yw achub ar bob cyfle i fodloni pob rhan o Gymru a’u sicrhau eu bod yn cael eu trin yn briodol oherwydd, yn ddigon rhyfedd, mae llwyddiant aruthrol Canolfan Mileniwm Cymru yn atgyfnerthu’r canfyddiad a grybwyllais o’r blaen. Nid af i fanylion i gyfiawnhau’r pwyntiau y mae pobl wedi’u gwneud, ond un o’r heriau mawr y byddwch chi, neu’ch olynydd ar ôl yr etholiad, yn gorfod ei hwynebu dros y flwyddyn nesaf, fwy neu lai, fydd sicrhau bod Cymru gyfan yn elwa o’r hyn sy’n digwydd o ran canolbwyntio ar ddiwylliant dros y blynyddoedd nesaf.

Alison Halford spoken in English p. 86

Alison Halford siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 86

I am sure that the Minister will be happy to know that she will only have to endure me for another four weeks before I retire. The jewel in the crown of this strategy must be the Cardiff millennium centre. At £104 million, it should be a prize asset. I am sure that the Minister is confident that the running costs of up to £6 million will be money well spent. The new art gallery for Wales, wherever it will be built—but Cardiff is the betting person’s choice—must mean that the Minister is satisfied that she is fulfilling her duty of establishing a Welsh Assembly culture strategy for Wales.

Yr wyf yn siŵr y bydd y Gweinidog yn falch o wybod na fydd ond yn gorfod fy ngoddef am bedair wythnos arall cyn imi ymddeol. Trysor pennaf y strategaeth hon, yn sicr, yw canolfan mileniwm Caerdydd. Gan ei bod yn costio £104 miliwn, dylai fod yn un o’r asedau mwyaf gwerthfawr. Yr wyf yn siŵr bod y Gweinidog yn ffyddiog y bydd y costau rhedeg o hyd at £6 miliwn yn arian gwerth ei wario. Mae’r oriel gelf newydd i Gymru, ym mhle bynnag y’i codir—ond Caerdydd yw’r dewis mwyaf tebygol—yn golygu bod y Gweinidog yn fodlon ei bod yn cyflawni ei dyletswydd i sefydlu strategaeth ddiwylliant Llywodraeth Cymru ar gyfer Cymru.

The Minister’s commitment to Cardiff is clear from her generous support for Russell Goodway’s bid to crown his city the Cultural Capital of Europe in 2008. Her financial support for the colourful Lord Mayor is symbolic of her cultural strategy as a whole. Agreeing to match fund his bid to the tune of £1.5 million sends out a clear message of her priorities, along with the additional £199,000 announced last week. Some of that money will surely help to build the newly announced £3.5 million art gallery in Grangetown.

Mae ymrwymiad y Gweinidog i Gaerdydd yn amlwg o’i chefnogaeth hael i gais Russell Goodway i goroni ei ddinas yn Brifddinas Diwylliant Ewrop yn 2008. Mae ei chefnogaeth ariannol i’r Arglwydd Faer lliwgar yn nodweddiadol o’i strategaeth ddiwylliannol drwyddi draw. Mae’r ffaith ei bod wedi cytuno i roi £1.5 miliwn o arian cyfatebol i gyllido ei gais yn cyfleu ei blaenoriaethau’n eglur, ynghyd â’r £199,000 a gyhoeddwyd yr wythnos diwethaf. Mae rhywfaint o’r arian hwnnw’n sicr o helpu i godi’r oriel gelf werth £3.5 miliwn yn Grangetown sydd newydd ei chyhoeddi.

Swansea is another favoured city. Over £15 million of Assembly funds will go towards the state-of-the-art Swansea maritime museum. That will guarantee a revival of tourism in Swansea. There are no sour grapes in my remarks. My goal was to ensure that all of Wales was given relevant funding to develop. Sadly, that has not happened. Now that Newport has city status, its theatre and arts centre is a worthy, cultural expenditure. Discovering the medieval ship under its foundations did not, and should not, hinder progress. Securing an additional £3 million on top of the £13 million in building costs also ensured that Newport would have a smart new theatre and art gallery, representing the Assembly’s commitment to culture in that part of Wales.

Mae Abertawe’n ddinas ffafriedig arall. Bydd mwy na £15 miliwn o gyllid y Cynulliad yn mynd at yr amgueddfa forol dra modern yn Abertawe. Bydd hynny’n sicr o adfywio twristiaeth yn Abertawe. Nid oes unrhyw surni yn fy sylwadau. Fy nod oedd sicrhau bod Cymru gyfan yn cael cyllid perthnasol i ddatblygu. Gwaetha’r modd, ni ddigwyddodd hynny. Gan fod Casnewydd wedi ennill statws dinas, mae ei theatr a’i ganolfan gelfyddydau’n deilwng o wariant ar ddiwylliant. Nid oedd darganfod y llong ganoloesol o dan ei sylfeini’n rhwystr i gynnydd, ac ni ddylai fod. Yr oedd sicrhau £3 miliwn ychwanegol ar ben y £13 miliwn o gostau adeiladu yn fodd hefyd i ofalu y câi Casnewydd theatr newydd ddeniadol ac oriel gelf, sy’n arwydd o ymrwymiad y Cynulliad i ddiwylliant yn y rhan honno o Gymru.

When the Welsh National Opera travels north twice a year, its performances are sold out. Therefore, we appreciate rare, cultural events in the north. We also recognise the refurbishment of Wrexham’s theatre, which has been generously welcomed. Sadly, the Minister has been unable to provide any meaningful additional funding for the only grade I repertory theatre in Wales, namely my old friend Clwyd Theatr Cymru. However, we are grateful that she has reduced its debts. It is also frustrating to note that although the budget for ASPBs have been increased, so much has been diverted to fund the cultural palaces in the golden triangle.

Pan yw Cwmni Opera Cenedlaethol Cymru yn mynd i’r Gogledd ddwywaith y flwyddyn, gwerthir pob tocyn ar gyfer ei berfformiadau. Felly, gwerthfawrogwn ddigwyddiadau diwylliannol prin yn y Gogledd. Yr ydym hefyd yn cydnabod bod theatr Wrecsam wedi’i hadnewyddu, a bu croeso cynnes i hynny. Gwaetha’r modd, ni allai’r Gweinidog ddarparu unrhyw gyllid ychwanegol arwyddocaol ar gyfer yr unig theatr cwmni o’r radd flaenaf yng Nghymru, sef fy hen ffrind Clwyd Theatr Cymru. Er hynny, yr ydym yn ddiolchgar ei bod wedi lleihau ei dyledion. Mae hefyd yn peri rhwystredigaeth gweld, er gwaethaf y cynnydd yn y gyllideb ar gyfer cyrff cyhoeddus a noddir gan y Cynulliad, fod cymaint wedi’i ddargyfeirio i gyllido’r palasau diwylliannol yn y triongl aur.

Finally, in Delyn, business people are actively attempting to draw up a plan for a museum of north Wales so that the priceless Mold gold cape can be returned to the area. Philistines may view it as a battered piece of metal. However, it is the sixth most important artefact in the UK. The British Museum has promised to release it providing that a secure location can be found. What evidence is there, Minister, that you will find the money to achieve that goal? In the fullness of time, I am sure that the Minister feels that the £2 million allocated for cultural expansion outside Cardiff will do a great deal to redress the perceptions of imbalance and inequality in supporting culture in Wales.

Yn olaf, yn Nelyn mae pobl busnes wrthi’n ceisio paratoi cynllun ar gyfer amgueddfa i’r Gogledd fel y gellir dod â mantell aur amhrisiadwy’r Wyddgrug yn ôl i’r ardal. Efallai fod philistiaid yn ei ystyried yn ddarn o fetel tolciog. Fodd bynnag, hi yw’r arteffact chweched pwysicaf yn y DU. Mae’r Amgueddfa Brydeinig wedi addo ei rhyddhau ar yr amod y gellir dod o hyd i le diogel. Pa dystiolaeth sydd, Weinidog, y byddwch yn dod o hyd i’r arian i gyflawni’r nod honno? Ymhen hir a hwyr, yr wyf yn siŵr bod y Gweinidog yn teimlo y bydd y £2 filiwn a ddyrannwyd ar gyfer ehangu diwylliannol y tu allan i Gaerdydd yn gwneud llawer i gywiro’r canfyddiad o anghydbwysedd ac anghydraddoldeb wrth hybu diwylliant yng Nghymru.

Rhodri Glyn Thomas siaradwyd yn Gymraeg t. 88

Rhodri Glyn Thomas spoken in Welsh p. 88

Fel Cadeirydd y Pwyllgor Diwylliant, diolchaf i Alison am ei chyfraniad iddo dros y blynyddoedd. Bu’n barod i holi yn gadarn am fanylion materion, a fu’n werthfawr i’r Pwyllgor. Bu i hynny achosi braw hefyd i ambell un a roddodd dystiolaeth gerbron y Pwyllgor. Deallaf ei dymuniad i amddiffyn buddiannau’r Gogledd. Y mae’n bwysig bod Aelodau’r Gogledd yn gwneud hynny. Yr wyf yn siomedig braidd y caiff hynny ei wneud ar draul yr hyn sy’n digwydd yng Nghaerdydd. Datganaf fuddiant fel aelod o fwrdd cais Caerdydd i fod yn Brifddinas Diwylliant Ewrop yn 2008. Ni chefnogodd gweinyddiaeth y Cynulliad y cais hyd nes i Abertawe a Chaerdydd gytuno mai Caerdydd a fyddai’n gwneud cais. Mae pob awdurdod lleol yng Nghymru wedi cefnogi’r cais hwnnw. Os bydd yn aflwyddiannus, bydd dinas y tu allan i Gymru yn llwyddiannus. Byddai hynny yn drasiedi i Gymru gyfan. Deallaf gymhellion Alison, ond mae’n rhaid i’r Cynulliad Cenedlaethol—ac yr wyf yn cynrychioli etholaeth yn y De-orllewin—gydnabod rôl Caerdydd fel prifddinas Cymru a’i bod yn bwysig y caiff gydnabyddiaeth, sy’n gydnabyddiaeth i Gymru gyfan.

As Chair of the Culture Committee, I thank Alison for her contribution over the years. She has been prepared to ask difficult questions on detailed matters, which has been invaluable to the Committee. That has also frightened some that have given evidence before the Committee. I fully understand her wish to defend the interests of north Wales. It is important that north Wales Members do so. I am somewhat disappointed that that is done at the expense of what is happening in Cardiff. I declare an interest as a member of Cardiff’s bid to be the Cultural Capital of Europe in 2008. The Assembly administration did not support the bid until Cardiff and Swansea had agreed that Cardiff would submit a bid. All local authorities in Wales have supported that bid. If it is unsuccessful, a city outside Wales will be successful. That would be a tragedy for the whole of Wales. I understand Alison’s motives, but the National Assembly—and I represent a constituency in south-west Wales—must acknowledge Cardiff’s role as the capital of Wales. It is important that this is recognised, as it constitutes recognition for the whole of Wales.

Yr wyf hefyd yn falch o weld y Blaid Dorïaidd yn arddel Iolo Morganwg gyda brwdfrydedd mawr. Awgrymaf y dylai David a Glyn ddarllen ychydig o hanes bywyd ac arferion Iolo Morganwg cyn iddynt gefnogi popeth a gyflawnodd yn ystod ei fywyd yn orfrwdfrydig. Byddai ychydig o hanes Cymru yn llesol i chi, ac i’ch plaid. Mae Iolo Morganwg yn un o adar brith mwyaf diddorol Cymru ac mae’n haeddu cydnabyddiaeth. Fodd bynnag, mae’n rhaid ichi fod ychydig yn ofalus wrth fod yn organmoliaethus ohono.

I am also pleased to see the Tory Party championing Iolo Morganwg with great enthusiasm. I suggest that David and Glyn read some of the life history and habits of Iolo Morganwg before they support everything that he achieved during his lifetime too enthusiastically. You would benefit from knowing some Welsh history, as would your party. Iolo Morganwg is one of Wales’s most colourful characters and he deserves recognition. However, you need to be a little careful in praising him too much.

Croesawaf y modd y datblygwyd ‘Creative Wales: Cymru Greadigol’. Gwnaed hynny mewn modd gynhwysol, gan gynnwys y Pwyllgor a’r holl fudiadau ac asiantaethau sy’n hybu’r celfyddydau yng Nghymru. Mae hynny yn rhywbeth i’w ganmol. O ran yr ariannu, mae swm mawr yn y gronfa ddiwylliannol y cyfeiriodd y Gweinidog ato. Mae’n rhaid gofyn cwestiwn ynglŷn â thryloywder ac atebolrwydd o ran y gronfa honno. Deallaf pam fod y Gweinidog am weithredu yn y modd hwnnw, ond mae’r cwestiwn hwnnw yn codi, a bu i bobl ei godi gyda mi.

I welcome the way in which ‘Creative Future: Cymru Greadigol’ has been developed. That has happened in an inclusive way, and has included the Committee and all the organisations and agencies that promote the arts in Wales. That is to be praised. In terms of the funding, there is a substantial sum in the cultural fund, to which the Minister has referred. We need to ask a question regarding transparency and accountability in terms of that fund. I understand why the Minister wishes to work in that way, but that question does arise, and people have raised it with me.

Croesawaf eich ymrwymiad i’r gronfa ffilm. Nid wyf yn deall pam fod yn rhaid ei ariannu o dan Amcan 1 ac nid yw’n glir sut y gellir sefydlu cronfa genedlaethol ar gyfer ffilm yng Nghymru drwy ddefnyddio’r arian hwnnw. Byddai’n rhaid ei gyfyngu i’r Gorllewin ac i hen gymoedd diwydiannol y De. Sut ydych yn bwriadu datblygu cronfa genedlaethol i hybu ffilm yng Nghymru drwy ddefnyddio arian Amcan 1?

I welcome your commitment to the film fund. I do not understand why it must be funded under Objective 1 and it is unclear as to how a national fund for film can be established in Wales by utilising that funding. It would have to be limited to west Wales and the post-industrial south Wales valleys. How do you intend developing a national fund to promote film in Wales by using Objective 1 funding?

Mae strategaeth ddrama ar gyfer y Gymraeg yn dechrau datblygu. A wnewch ymrwymo heddiw, Weinidog, i gefnogi drama gyfoes oherwydd ceir teimlad bod y strategaeth yn canolbwyntio ar weithiau a ysgrifennwyd yn y gorffennol? Beth am hybu’r ddrama fel cyfrwng cyfoes?

The strategy for Welsh language theatre is beginning to develop. Will you give a commitment today, Minister, to support modern drama, because there is a feeling that the strategy is focusing on works that were written in the past? What about promoting drama as a modern medium?

O ran Cymru dramor, a ydych yn hapus bod digon o adnoddau ar gael yn y gronfa ariannol i hybu Cymru dramor mewn ffordd fywiog, gynhyrfus?

On Wales abroad, are you confident that there are sufficient resources in the fund to promote Wales abroad in an energetic and exciting way?

Peter Black spoken in English p. 90

Peter Black siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 90

I will also comment on the success of the culture strategy and the culture portfolio since it was established in the Assembly, the ambitions that the Assembly has taken on in terms of that portfolio and how we are moving towards achieving those ambitions. It is clear from what Jenny said earlier, and from the strategy, that success is evident. This ambition also extends to Glyn Davies, even as far as establishing a gorsedd circle in his garden, which truly impressed me, and corresponds to his breeding of ducks. He deserves much praise.

Gwnaf finnau sylw am lwyddiant y strategaeth ddiwylliant a’r portffolio diwylliant ers ei sefydlu yn y Cynulliad, yr uchelgeisiau y mae’r Cynulliad wedi’u harddel yng nghyd-destun y portffolio hwnnw a’r modd yr ydym yn dechrau cyflawni’r uchelgeisiau hynny. Mae’n eglur o’r hyn a ddywedodd Jenny yn gynharach, ac oddi wrth y strategaeth, fod llwyddiant amlwg. Mae’r uchelgais hwn yn cynnwys Glyn Davies hefyd, a hyd yn oed gosod cylch gorsedd yn ei ardd, a wnaeth argraff wirioneddol arnaf, ac sy’n gydnaws â magu hwyaid ganddo. Mae’n haeddu llawer o glod.

I noted that the art correspondent, Jon Gower, commented on the BBC Wales news website in December that 2002 was a positive year for the arts in Wales. For the year 2002-03 the Assembly’s culture budget received an 11 per cent increase—the largest increase in any ministerial portfolio. That underlines the Assembly’s commitment to the arts and to the culture portfolio. We have already heard about the building of the Wales Millennium Centre, which is on target and within cost, the additional 23 per cent for the Arts Council of Wales budget, and the free entry to the National Museums and Galleries of Wales, which continues to be a massive success. In Swansea, one of the areas that I represent, work has started on the waterfront museum. It is clear that this is not a Cardiff-centred strategy or even a south-Wales-centred strategy. It is one that will benefit the whole of Wales, in terms of the £2 million that Jenny announced as additional funding for the arts, consequent upon the revenue funding for the Wales Millennium Centre. Clwyd Theatr Cymru’s debts were wiped out and the National Assembly has made other investments around Wales, such as the recent additional funding that we gave the Brecon Jazz Festival.

Sylwais fod y gohebydd ar y celfyddydau, Jon Gower, wedi dweud ar wefan newyddion BBC Cymru yn Rhagfyr fod 2002 yn flwyddyn gadarnhaol i’r celfyddydau yng Nghymru. Ar gyfer y flwyddyn 2002-03, bu cynnydd o 11 y cant yng nghyllideb diwylliant y Cynulliad—y cynnydd mwyaf mewn unrhyw bortffolio gweinidogol. Mae hynny’n tanlinellu ymrwymiad y Cynulliad i’r celfyddydau ac i’r portffolio diwylliant. Yr ydym eisoes wedi clywed am godi Canolfan Mileniwm Cymru, sy’n cadw at ei hamserlen ac at ei chyllideb, y 23 y cant yn ychwanegol ar gyfer cyllideb Cyngor Celfyddydau Cymru, a mynediad yn rhad ac am ddim i Amgueddfeydd ac Orielau Cenedlaethol Cymru, sy’n dal i fod yn llwyddiant ysgubol. Yn Abertawe, un o’r ardaloedd yr wyf yn eu cynrychioli, mae’r gwaith wedi dechrau ar amgueddfa y glannau. Mae’n amlwg nad yw’r strategaeth hon yn canolbwyntio ar Gaerdydd nac ar y De hyd yn oed. Mae’n un a ddaw â lles i Gymru gyfan, o ran y £2 filiwn y mae Jenny wedi’i gyhoeddi fel cyllid ychwanegol i’r celfyddydau, o ganlyniad i’r cyllid refeniw ar gyfer Canolfan Mileniwm Cymru. Dilewyd dyledion Clwyd Theatr Cymru ac mae’r Cynulliad Cenedlaethol wedi buddsoddi symiau eraill o gwmpas Cymru, fel y cyllid ychwanegol a roesom i Ŵyl Jazz Aberhonddu yn ddiweddar.

The fact that we have a culture Minister and that we are able to focus on culture means that we are able to meet these demands and ensure that the cultural life of Wales is enriched as a result. The emphasis on young people, communities and cultural diversity in the culture strategy is being delivered, with increased funding broadening the base of participation in the arts in Wales. The strategy rightly recognises the intrinsic value of the arts and cultural activities. It is important to encourage greater participation in the arts, especially among young people, as arts enrich our lives, form the foundation for the growth of values and beliefs and also bring pleasure. In 2001-02, more was spent on the arts in Wales, per capita, than in any other part of the United Kingdom. In Wales, £10 was spent per capita in comparison with expenditure in England of only £8.50, £9.87 in Scotland and £9.80 in Northern Ireland. The ambition that the Assembly has for the arts is being met, and the partnership Government, through its actions and its increased funding has shown its commitment to arts and culture and to promoting them.

Mae’r ffaith bod gennym Weinidog diwylliant a’n bod yn gallu canolbwyntio ar ddiwylliant yn golygu y gallwn gwrdd â’r gofynion hynny a sicrhau y caiff bywyd diwylliannol Cymru ei gyfoethogi o ganlyniad. Gwireddir y pwyslais ar bobl ifanc, cymunedau ac amrywiaeth ddiwylliannol yn y strategaeth ddiwylliant, ac mae’r cynnydd mewn cyllid yn fodd i ehangu cyfranogiad yn y celfyddydau yng Nghymru. Mae’r strategaeth yn cydnabod yn briodol werth cynhenid y celfyddydau a gweithgareddau diwylliannol. Mae’n bwysig hyrwyddo cyfranogiad yn y celfyddydau, yn enwedig ymysg pobl ifanc, gan fod celfyddydau’n cyfoethogi ein bywyd, yn creu sylfaen i feithrin gwerthoedd a chredoau ac yn rhoi pleser hefyd. Yn 2001-02, yr oedd y gwariant y pen ar y celfyddydau yng Nghymru’n fwy nag mewn unrhyw ran arall o’r Deyrnas Unedig. Yng Nghymru, gwariwyd £10 y pen o’i gymharu â dim ond £8.50 yn Lloegr, £9.87 yn yr Alban a £9.80 yng Ngogledd Iwerddon. Cyflawnir uchelgais y Cynulliad ar gyfer y celfyddydau, ac mae’r Llywodraeth bartneriaeth, drwy’r camau a gymerodd a’r cyllid ychwanegol a roddodd, wedi dangos ei hymrwymiad i gelfyddydau a diwylliant ac i’w hyrwyddo.

David Melding spoken in English p. 91

David Melding siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 91

After Rhodri Glyn Thomas launched an attack on my historical knowledge I must respond immediately, and return again to the subject of Iolo Morganwg. I know a little about his life, because I find it so inspiring. He was a bit of a wicked Tory in his way, and perhaps I will develop that point. [ASSEMBLY MEMBERS: ‘Oh.’] It is a serious point. I want to see more statutes of famous Welsh men and women, and more support for our artists and sculptors.

Gan fod Rhodri Glyn Thomas wedi lladd ar fy ngwybodaeth am hanes, rhaid imi ymateb ar unwaith, a dychwelyd eto at bwnc Iolo Morganwg. Gwn ychydig am ei fywyd, gan fy mod yn ei gael yn gymaint o ysbrydoliaeth. Yr oedd yn rhyw fath o Dori drwg mewn ffordd, ac efallai y datblygaf y pwynt hwnnw. [AELODAU’R CYNULLIAD: ‘O.’] Mae’n bwynt difrif. Dymunaf weld rhagor o gerfluniau o Gymry enwog, a mwy o gefnogaeth i’n harlunwyr a’n cerflunwyr.

Rhodri Glyn Thomas spoken in English p. 91

Rhodri Glyn Thomas siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 91

If Iolo Morganwg was some sort of Tory, I take it that the Tory Party supports taking drugs and those imprisoned for being persistent debtors?

Oes oedd Iolo Morganwg yn rhyw fath o Dori, cymeraf fod y Blaid Dorïaidd o blaid cymryd cyffuriau ac yn cefnogi’r rhai sy’n cael eu carcharu am fynd i ddyled yn barhaus?

David Melding spoken in English p. 91

David Melding siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 91

You do not seem to know much about the romantic tradition, which is one of the great cultural achievements of Great Britain, as I am afraid that the use of opium and occasional imprisonment were not uncommon among the upper echelons of the aristocracy. Iolo had connections with Flemingston, Llancarfan and Cowbridge and it would be marvellous if a statue of Iolo Morganwg stood in Cowbridge, where there is a primary school named after him. I am sure that naming a primary school after him was a wholesome act, as it recognises his genius and achievement. A copy of the statue should stand on Lloyd George Avenue. I would like to see statues all the way down Lloyd George Avenue, proclaiming the brilliance of various Welsh men and women who promoted their culture and who achieved other great things in Wales, Britain and further afield.

Nid yw’n ymddangos eich bod yn gwybod llawer am y traddodiad rhamantaidd, sy’n un o gyflawniadau diwylliannol mawr Prydain Fawr, gan fod y defnydd o opiwm ac ambell garchariad heb fod yn anghyffredin, mae arnaf ofn, ymysg y pendefigion uchaf. Yr oedd gan Iolo gysylltiadau â Threfflemin, Llancarfan a’r Bont-faen a byddai’n ardderchog pe byddai cerflun o Iolo Morganwg yn y Bont-faen, lle y mae ysgol gynradd wedi’i henwi ar ei ôl. Yr wyf yn siŵr bod enwi ysgol gynradd ar ei ôl yn weithred iach, gan ei bod yn cydnabod ei athrylith a’i gyflawniadau. Dylid rhoi copi o’r cerflun i sefyll ar Rodfa Lloyd George. Carwn weld cerfluniau ar hyd Rhodfa Lloyd George, yn datgan disgleirdeb gwahanol Gymry a hyrwyddodd eu diwylliant ac a gyflawnodd bethau mawr eraill yng Nghymru, Prydain ac yn fwy eang.

I return to Iolo Morganwg—

Dychwelaf at Iolo Morganwg—

Owen John Thomas spoken in English p. 92

Owen John Thomas siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 92

Will you give way?

A wnewch ildio?

David Melding spoken in English p. 92

David Melding siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 92

No. I said that I would be as brief as possible.

Na wnaf. Dywedais y byddwn mor gryno ag y bo modd.

It must be said that he was inventive. Perhaps that is what Rhodri Glyn Thomas was alluding to earlier. However, all good Tories know that, to an extent, all traditions are an invention. Does it matter whether Iolo discovered or revived an eisteddfod tradition that went back to the mists of times—to the dark ages, or at least to the medieval period? Does it matter whether he revived or invented it? As a result of his achievement we have the largest cultural event in Europe. He established the eisteddfod tradition and gave to Wales one of the outstanding achievements of the romantic movement in Britain. The outstanding achievement of the romantic movement in England was reinventing the monarchy. The monarchy that we see today in all its trappings goes back to the Victorian era. That is how old it is. It is a magnificent tradition, even if it is only 150 years old. It has given us a constitutional monarchy that inspires half the world.

Rhaid dweud ei fod yn ddyfeisgar. Efallai mai at hynny yr oedd Rhodri Glyn Thomas yn cyfeirio’n gynharach. Fodd bynnag, gŵyr pob Tori da mai dyfeisiad yw pob traddodiad, i ryw raddau. A yw o bwys a oedd Iolo Morganwg wedi darganfod neu adfywio traddodiad eisteddfodol sy’n mynd yn ôl i niwloedd amser—i’r oesoedd tywyll, neu i’r cyfnod canoloesol o leiaf? A yw o bwys a oedd wedi’i adfywio neu ei ddyfeisio? O ganlyniad i’w gyflawniad mae’r digwyddiad diwylliannol mwyaf yn Ewrop gennym. Sefydlodd y traddodiad eisteddfodol a rhoi i Gymru un o gyflawniadau eithriadol y mudiad rhamantaidd ym Mhrydain. Cyflawniad eithriadol y mudiad rhamantaidd yn Lloegr oedd ailddyfeisio’r frenhiniaeth. Mae’r frenhiniaeth a welwn heddiw â’i holl addurniadau yn mynd yn ôl i oes Fictoria. Dyna pa mor hen ydyw. Mae’n draddodiad ardderchog, er nad ydyw ond yn 150 mlwydd oed. Rhoddodd frenhiniaeth gyfansoddiadol i ni sy’n ysbrydoli hanner y byd.

Rhodri Glyn Thomas a gododd—

Rhodri Glyn Thomas rose—

David Melding spoken in English p. 92

David Melding siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 92

I give way.

Gwnaf ildio.

John Marek The Deputy Presiding Officer spoken in English p. 92

John Marek Y Dirprwy Lywydd siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 92

Order. This is taking too much time. Many Members wish to contribute and they will not have the opportunity to speak unless you wind up quickly.

Trefn. Mae hyn yn mynd â gormod o amser. Mae llawer o Aelodau’n dymuno cyfrannu ac ni chânt gyfle i siarad os na wnewch derfynu’n fuan.

Rhodri Glyn Thomas spoken in English p. 93

Rhodri Glyn Thomas siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 93

Given that David accepts that much of what Iolo achieved was invention, I take on board his view that it should be recognised. He was an important figure. Unfortunately, much of what Iolo Morganwg claimed as true was invention; everything that Margaret Thatcher did to Wales was real, which is sad.

Gan fod David yn derbyn mai dyfeisiadau oedd llawer o’r hyn a gyflawnodd Iolo, yr wyf finnau’n derbyn y dylid ei gydnabod. Yr oedd yn ffigur pwysig. Gwaetha’r modd, yr oedd llawer o’r hyn yr honnodd Iolo Morganwg ei fod yn wir yn ddyfeisiad; yr oedd popeth a wnaeth Margaret Thatcher i Gymru’n real, sy’n beth trist.

David Melding spoken in English p. 93

David Melding siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 93

It is a pity that you are reduced to making a dull point, because I thought that we were having an important conversation. The eisteddfod that we now have did not happen by magic. It happened through one man’s act of genius—he picked up traditions from all over Wales and made them more powerful and coherent.

Mae’n drueni’ch bod yn gorfod gwneud pwynt diflas, oherwydd credais ein bod yn cael sgwrs bwysig. Nid drwy hud a lledrith y cafwyd yr eisteddfod sydd gennym yn awr. Fe’i cafwyd drwy weithred o athrylith gan un dyn—cododd draddodiadau o bob cwr o Gymru a’u gwneud yn fwy grymus a chydlynol.

Eleanor Burnham spoken in English p. 93

Eleanor Burnham siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 93

Will you give way?

A wnewch ildio?

David Melding spoken in English p. 93

David Melding siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 93

No. We should all celebrate his important achievement in the early nineteenth century because it lives with us, giving us great power and confidence as a cultural nation. Iolo Morganwg should have a statue; let us have one.

Na wnaf. Dylem ddathlu ei gyflawniad pwysig ar ddechrau’r bedwaredd ganrif ar bymtheg gan ei fod yn byw gyda ni, gan roi nerth a hyder mawr i ni fel cenedl ddiwylliannol. Dylid cael cerflun i Iolo Morganwg; gadewch inni gael un.

Christine Chapman spoken in English p. 93

Christine Chapman siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 93

The cultural agenda has been driven forward since devolution. I am pleased that, in the early days of the Assembly, I was a member of the Post-16 Education and Training Committee, where we considered the culture review. I agree with Glyn Davies on culture’s potential to give Wales a higher profile, as well as its impact on the economy. Since the early days, the Assembly has achieved much for Wales, and we must continue to ensure that culture and the arts are relevant and represent our diverse cultural heritage, including that of the south Wales Valleys.

Mae’r agenda ddiwylliannol wedi cael hwb ymlaen ers datganoli. Yr wyf yn falch imi fod, yn nyddiau cynnar y Cynulliad, yn aelod o’r Pwyllgor Addysg a Hyfforddiant Ôl-16, lle y gwnaethom ystyried yr adolygiad o ddiwylliant. Cytunaf â Glyn Davies ynghylch potensial diwylliant i gynyddu amlygrwydd Cymru, yn ogystal â’i effaith ar yr economi. Ers y dyddiau cynnar, mae’r Cynulliad wedi cyflawni llawer dros Gymru, a rhaid inni barhau i sicrhau bod diwylliant a’r celfyddydau’n berthnasol ac yn cynrychioli ein treftadaeth ddiwylliannol amrywiol, gan gynnwys yr hyn a geir yng Nghymoedd y De.

I support Huw Lewis’s excellent idea of having a museum of labour history; we should consider that seriously. It is important that people in our communities are inspired to participate and to recognise our culture as a central part of Welsh life, not as a peripheral pursuit for the more prosperous members of society. However, having spoken to some constituents involved with cultural organisations, their impression is that too many large, or even Cardiff-based, organisations are dominating grants for cultural activities. The Arts Council of Wales and local government still face challenges in increasing community participation in Valleys areas. We need to ensure that small groups have access to cash resources and are involved at a key level. The projects of local community organisations and voluntary groups have an important role in the community that they serve. If we are to encourage culture as a central activity, it is vital that those groups have as much access to funding as larger projects. Therefore, larger organisations should be as proactive and as innovative as possible in communicating well with smaller groups.

Cefnogaf syniad rhagorol Huw Lewis o gael amgueddfa hanes llafur; dylem ystyried hynny o ddifrif. Mae’n bwysig bod pobl yn ein cymunedau’n cael eu hysbrydoli i gymryd rhan ac i gydnabod ein diwylliant yn rhan ganolog o fywyd Cymru, nid yn ddiddordeb ymylol i aelodau mwy cefnog cymdeithas. Fodd bynnag, a minnau wedi siarad â rhai etholwyr sy’n gysylltiedig â chyrff diwylliannol, yr argraff y gânt yw bod gormod o gyrff mawr, neu hyd yn oed rai sydd wedi’u lleoli yng Nghaerdydd, yn cael grantiau ar gyfer gweithgareddau diwylliannol. Mae Cyngor Celfyddydau Cymru a llywodraeth leol yn dal i wynebu heriau o ran peri i fwy o bobl y Cymoedd i gymryd rhan. Rhaid inni sicrhau bod grwpiau bach yn gallu cael adnoddau ariannol a’u bod yn cymryd rhan ar lefel allweddol. Mae rôl bwysig i brosiectau cyrff cymunedol lleol a grwpiau gwirfoddol yn y gymuned a wasanaethant. Os ydym i hybu diwylliant fel gweithgaredd canolog, mae’n hollbwysig bod y grwpiau hynny’n cael yr un cyfle i gael cyllid ag y mae prosiectau mwy. Gan hynny, dylai cyrff mawr fod mor rhagweithiol ac arloesol ag y bo modd wrth gyfathrebu â grwpiau llai.

On access to culture, local history, the arts, music, poetry, drama and opera can all enrich people’s lives and combat social exclusion. They can also help to build social cohesion. I was recently impressed that the Cynon valley youth section in my constituency, in Cwmaman, performed a drama dealing with the dangers of drugs. That was an innovative way of using culture to examine a serious issue.

Ynghylch mynediad i ddiwylliant, mae hanes lleol, y celfyddydau, cerddoriaeth, barddoniaeth, drama ac opera i gyd yn gallu cyfoethogi bywydau pobl a gwrthweithio allgáu cymdeithasol. Gallant helpu i greu cydlyniad cymdeithasol hefyd. Gwnaed argraff arnaf yn ddiweddar pan befformiodd adran ieuenctid cwm Cynon yn fy etholaeth, yng Nghwmaman, ddrama a oedd yn ymdrin â pheryglon cyffuriau. Yr oedd hynny’n ddefnydd arloesol o ddiwylliant i roi sylw i fater difrifol.

Free admission to the national museums and galleries of Wales has also proved to be an excellent initiative, and has gone down well with families who previously could not afford to visit those places.

Cafwyd bod cynnig mynediad rhad ac am ddim i amgueddfeydd ac orielau cenedlaethol Cymru yn fenter ragorol, a chafodd dderbyniad da gan deuluoedd na allent fforddio ymweld â lleoedd o’r fath cyn hynny.

Finally, I am delighted that we will have the new Wales Millennium Centre; we are watching it grow on our doorstep. It will showcase Welsh culture and will offer productions that were previously only performed in London. That has to be good for Wales. We must start to think big in Wales and then we will be successful.

Yn olaf, yr wyf wrth fy modd y bydd y Ganolfan Mileniwm Cymru newydd gennym; yr ydym yn ei gweld yn tyfu ar garreg ein drws. Bydd yn arddangos diwylliant Cymru ac yn cynnig cynyrchiadau nad oeddent ond yn cael eu perfformio yn Llundain o’r blaen. Mae hynny’n sicr o fod yn beth da i Gymru. Rhaid inni ddechrau bod yn uchelgeisiol yng Nghymru ac wedyn byddwn yn llwyddiannus.

Peter Law spoken in English p. 94

Peter Law siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 94

I believe that equal and fair distribution is vital, which is why I was delighted to hear my friend Alison Halford’s superb contribution earlier. Revenue support of £2 million for the arts in the rest of Wales is minuscule and, frankly, an insult. That is not to deride this culture strategy but, if we are to change the situation for the people of Wales, we have to get real. Life exists outside Cardiff, which always seems to be the crux of every matter here. Consider what has been spent on the building over the road; such extravagance is a fact of life.

Credaf fod dosbarthu teg a chyfartal yn hollbwysig, a dyna pam yr oeddwn wrth fy modd o glywed y cyfraniad gwych gan fy ffrind Alison Halford yn gynharach. Mae cymorth refeniw o £2 filiwn ar gyfer y celfyddydau yng ngweddill Cymru yn fach iawn ac yn sarhad, a dweud y gwir. Nid yw hynny’n golygu fy mod yn bychanu’r strategaeth ddiwylliant hon ond, os ydym i newid y sefyllfa i bobl Cymru, rhaid inni ddeall sut y mae mewn gwirionedd. Mae bywyd i’w gael y tu allan i Gaerdydd, ac ymddengys mai hynny yw craidd pob mater yn y fan hon. Ystyriwch yr hyn a wariwyd ar yr adeilad dros y ffordd; mae afradlondeb o’r fath yn un o ffeithiau bywyd.

Owen John Thomas a gododd—

Owen John Thomas rose—

Peter Law spoken in English p. 95

Peter Law siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 95

I cannot deal with you now, as I only have two minutes, sorry.

Ni allaf ddelio â chi’n awr, gan mai dim ond dau funud sydd gennyf, mae’n ddrwg gennyf.

I am aware of the financial sleight of hand that has gone on between Cardiff County Council and the Assembly Government. Money for the land? No, you need not pay for that. Money for the Cultural Capital of Europe bid? Yes, we will give you money for that. In the end, the cost will be phenomenal. Let us wait and see what the revenue costs are. I am concerned about how much they will be when you consider how little has been given elsewhere.

Yr wyf yn ymwybodol o’r gonsuriaeth ariannol a fu’n mynd ymlaen rhwng Cyngor Sir Caerdydd a Llywodraeth y Cynulliad. Arian ar gyfer y tir? Na, ni raid ichi dalu hynny. Arian ar gyfer y cais i fod yn Brifddinas Diwylliant Ewrop? Ie, rhown yr arian ichi ar gyfer hynny. Yn y diwedd, bydd y gost yn aruthrol. Gadewch inni aros i weld beth fydd y costau refeniw. Yr wyf yn bryderus ynghylch eu maint pan ystyriwch gyn lleied a roddwyd mewn mannau eraill.

On the horizon, the Conservatives propose a national gallery. Where will that be built? It had better not be in Cardiff, because we must reach out and make a statement to people in the rest of Wales. We have to tell them that they are equal. They should have a building. The Welsh Assembly Government has hardly any buildings outside Cardiff—they are particularly scarce in the North. We need to reach out so that people feel included. Whatever we build will be a symbol of Wales’s excellence in the future and, by embracing everybody, will help lend credibility to the National Assembly. It is no good talking about it: we must do it. Until we say that we will do it, and that we will build outside Cardiff to include other people, we will always be questioned and our sincerity will be found wanting by people in the rest of Wales.

Yn y dyfodol, mae’r Ceidwadwyr yn cynnig oriel genedlaethol. Ym mhle y’i codir? Gwell fyddai peidio â’i chodi yng Nghaerdydd, oherwydd rhaid inni estyn llaw a gwneud datganiad i’r bobl yng ngweddill Cymru. Rhaid inni ddweud wrthynt eu bod yn gyfartal. Dylent hwy gael adeilad. Nid oes gan Lywodraeth Cynulliad Cymru bron ddim adeiladau y tu allan i Gaerdydd—maent yn arbennig o brin yn y Gogledd. Rhaid inni estyn llaw fel bod pobl yn teimlo eu bod wedi’u cynnwys. Bydd pa bynnag adeilad a godwn yn symbol o ragoriaeth Cymru yn y dyfodol, a thrwy gynnwys pawb, bydd o gymorth i roi hygrededd i’r Cynulliad Cenedlaethol. Nid oes diben mewn siarad: rhaid inni weithredu. Hyd nes y dywedwn ein bod am godi adeilad y tu allan i Gaerdydd i gynnwys pobl eraill, byddwn yn cael ein hamau bob amser a bydd pobl yng ngweddill Cymru yn gweld diffyg diffuantrwydd ynom.

We need to follow up the points made today. We must look to the future. We cannot be seen to be building any more major developments in Cardiff; we must be seen to be working in other parts of Wales. We must respect the fact that the majority is out there; we must not play to a pampered minority in one little corner of south-east Wales.

Rhaid inni ddilyn y pwyntiau a wnaed heddiw. Rhaid inni edrych tua’r dyfodol. Rhaid inni beidio â chael ein gweld yn adeiladu rhagor o ddatblygiadau mawr yng Nghaerdydd; rhaid inni gael ein gweld yn gweithio mewn rhannau eraill o Gymru. Rhaid inni barchu’r ffaith bod y mwyafrif y tu allan; rhaid inni beidio â boddio lleiafrif a faldodwyd mewn un gornel fach o dde-ddwyrain Cymru.

Karen Sinclair spoken in English p. 96

Karen Sinclair siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 96

Quickly, I will highlight the Minister for Culture’s failure to take seriously the need for direct funding of the international musical eisteddfod at Llangollen. It celebrates culture from Wales and around the world. Jenny, will you consider funding the Llangollen Eisteddfod in the same way as the Brecon Jazz Festival was recently funded? That would give the eisteddfod security because, at present, it finds long-term planning almost impossible. I listened to today’s history lesson on eisteddfodau and, while I am aware that the Llangollen Eisteddfod is relatively new, we should cherish it, particularly during the times that we currently face. We ought to secure its future.

Yn gryno, gwnaf dynnu sylw at fethiant y Gweinidog dros ddiwylliant i ystyried yn ddifrifol yr angen i roi cyllid yn uniongyrchol i’r eisteddfod gerddorol gydwladol yn Llangollen. Mae’n dathlu diwylliant o Gymru a phedwar ban byd. Jenny, a wnewch ystyried cyllido eisteddfod Llangollen yn yr un modd ag y cyllidwyd Gŵyl Jazz Aberhonddu yn ddiweddar? Rhoddai hynny sicrwydd i’r eisteddfod oherwydd, ar hyn o bryd, mae’n ei chael bron yn amhosibl cynllunio ar gyfer y tymor hir. Gwrandewais ar y wers hanes heddiw am eisteddfodau ac, er y gwn fod Eisteddfod Llangollen yn gymharol newydd, dylem ofalu amdani, yn enwedig yn y cyfnod yr ydym yn ei wynebu ar hyn o bryd. Dylem sicrhau ei dyfodol.

Jenny Randerson The Minister for Culture, Sport and the Welsh Language spoken in English p. 96

Jenny Randerson Y Gweinidog dros Ddiwylliant, Chwaraeon a’r Gymraeg siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 96

I will do my best to respond as well as possible.

Gwnaf fy ngorau i ymateb gystal ag y gallaf.

I sometimes think that Owen John and I live in parallel universes: he made the same speech in Committee last week, and I answered him assiduously. Perhaps he did not listen to my answers. The secretariat performs the monitoring, and the arts branch of the civil service provides the secretariat. I believe in less bureaucracy and more delivery, Owen John. It is essential that we do not tie up resources in secretariats, which only means pen-pushing. Cymru’n Creu monitors assiduously; the Culture Committee monitors possibly even more assiduously; and the remit letter also gives you the framework in which the culture strategy works. All spending is reported to the Assembly, and the Committee deals with that and with remit letters.

Yr wyf yn meddwl weithiau fod Owen John a minnau’n byw mewn dau fyd ar wahân: gwnaeth yr un araith yn y Pwyllgor yr wythnos diwethaf, ac fe’i hatebais yn gydwybodol. Efallai na wrandawodd ar fy atebion. Yr ysgrifenyddiaeth sy’n monitro, a changen celfyddydau’r gwasanaeth sifil sy’n darparu’r ysgrifenyddiaeth. Credaf mewn llai o fiwrocratiaeth a mwy o gyflawni, Owen John. Mae’n hollbwysig na chyfyngir yr adnoddau i ysgrifenyddiaethau, sydd ond yn golygu biwrocratiaeth. Mae Cymru’n Creu yn monitro’n gydwybodol; mae’r Pwyllgor Diwylliant yn monitro’n fwy cydwybodol byth, o bosibl; ac mae’r llythyr cylch gwaith yn darparu’r fframwaith y mae’r strategaeth ddiwylliant yn gweithio oddi mewn iddo. Rhoddir gwybod i’r Cynulliad am yr holl wariant, ac mae’r Pwyllgor yn delio â hynny a’r llythyrau cylch gwaith.

In response to the point about the Welsh Local Government Association, 20 of our 22 local authorities now have a culture strategy either in progress or completed. Culture is also part of every local authority’s community plan. The idea of a history gallery is currently under active development, as it is contained in the strategy. Therefore, plans are being developed, but funding will have to be considered later.

Mewn ymateb i’r pwynt am Gymdeithas Llywodraeth Leol Cymru, mae 20 o’n 22 awdurdod lleol yn meddu bellach ar strategaeth ddiwylliant sydd un ai ar y gweill neu wedi’i chwblhau. Mae diwylliant yn rhan o gynllun cymunedol pob awdurdod lleol hefyd. Mae’r syniad o oriel hanes yn cael ei ddatblygu’n weithredol ar hyn o bryd, ac fe’i ceir yn y strategaeth. Felly, mae cynlluniau’n cael eu datblygu, ond bydd yn rhaid ystyried cyllid yn ddiweddarach.

Glyn talked about the impact on the private sector, which I feel is positive. We are revitalising the habit of museum-going. On Saturday, I attended the St David’s Day celebrations at the Museum of Welsh Life in St Fagans, and it was more than a ‘museum’ experience. Thousands of people were there in big, family groups, enjoying a day out and bringing back the habit of museum-going. The Welsh Slate Museum, Llanberis is a strong example of a museum that has worked with the private sector, following the introduction of free entry to museums, and entrance to private-sector attractions has been affected positively. Glyn, I am sorry that you regard ‘Dyfodol Dwyieithog: Bilingual Future’ as propaganda. In fact, it had cross-party support and was the framework for our policy.

Soniodd Glyn am yr effaith ar y sector preifat, y teimlaf ei bod yn gadarnhaol. Yr ydym yn adfywio’r arfer o ymweld ag amgueddfeydd. Ddydd Sadwrn, bûm yn bresennol yn y dathliadau Gŵyl Dewi yn Amgueddfa Werin Cymru yn Sain Ffagan, ac yr oedd yn brofiad amgenach na bod mewn amgueddfa. Yr oedd miloedd o bobl yno mewn grwpiau mawr, teuluol, yn mwynhau diwrnod allan ac yn ailafael yn yr arfer o ymweld ag amgueddfa. Mae Amgueddfa Lechi Cymru yn Llanberis yn enghraifft dda o amgueddfa sydd wedi gweithio gyda’r sector preifat, ar ôl cyflwyno mynediad rhad ac am ddim i amgueddfeydd, a bu effaith gadarnhaol ar y mynediad i atyniadau yn y sector preifat. Glyn, mae’n ddrwg gennyf eich bod yn ystyried ‘Dyfodol Dwyieithog: Bilingual Future’ yn bropaganda. Mewn gwirionedd, yr oedd yr holl bleidiau’n ei gefnogi ac yr oedd yn fframwaith i’n polisi.

Alison, you know that analysis of the figures has shown that north Wales now receives well above its percentage share of funding in terms of its population. That may not have been the case in the past, but it is now. We are putting right any past injustices. You disregarded the facts relating to Clwyd Theatr Cymru. For the record, the debt that you dismissed was £560,000. The increase, which was not of any seeming importance to you, was 15 per cent. Clwyd Theatr Cymru now receives significant funding of £1.3 million per annum.

Alison, gwyddoch fod dadansoddiad o’r ffigurau wedi dangos bod y Gogledd bellach yn derbyn llawer mwy na’i gyfran ganrannol o gyllid yn nhermau ei boblogaeth. Efallai nad felly yr oedd yn y gorffennol, ond felly y mae’n awr. Yr ydym yn unioni unrhyw gam a fu yn y gorffennol. Gwnaethoch anwybyddu’r ffeithiau mewn cysylltiad â Clwyd Theatr Cymru. Er mwyn i bawb gael gwybod, y ddyled y gwnaethoch ei wfftio oedd £560,000. Y cynnydd, nad ymddengys ei fod o bwys gennych, oedd 15 y cant. Mae Clwyd Theatr Cymru bellach yn cael cyllid sylweddol o £1.3 miliwn y flwyddyn.

The National Museums and Galleries of Wales has a new initiative called ‘Sharing the Treasures’, which should, in time, allow artefacts such as the Mold gold cape to return to north Wales. I will deal with that matter when I visit north Wales on Thursday, because it is important. Also, having spoken with people in north Wales, your view on our Cultural Capital of Europe bid is not generally shared. It is seen as an opportunity for all of Wales, not just for Cardiff. Transparency of funding is now complete and the emphasis—in having a culture fund—is on delivery, not on structures and institutions. However, Rhodri Glyn, I am aware of the importance of developing a drama strategy.

Mae gan Amgueddfeydd ac Orielau Cenedlaethol Cymru fenter newydd o’r enw ‘Rhannu’r Trysorau’, a ddylai, ymhen amser, greu modd i arteffactau fel mantell aur yr Wyddgrug ddod yn ôl i’r Gogledd. Ymdriniaf â’r mater hwnnw pan ymwelaf â’r Gogledd ddydd Iau, gan ei fod yn bwysig. Hefyd, a minnau wedi siarad â phobl yn y Gogledd, gwn nad yw’ch barn am ein cais ar gyfer Prifddinas Diwylliant Ewrop yn un gyffredin. Fe’i gwelir yn gyfle i Gymru gyfan, nid i Gaerdydd yn unig. Mae’r cyllido’n gwbl dryloyw bellach a phwyslais ar weithredu a geir—drwy gael cronfa ddiwylliant—yn hytrach nag ar strwythurau a sefydliadau. Serch hynny, Rhodri Glyn, yr wyf yn ymwybodol o bwysigrwydd y gwaith o ddatblygu strategaeth drama.

John Marek The Deputy Presiding Officer spoken in English p. 98

John Marek Y Dirprwy Lywydd siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 98

Order. You need to wind up.

Trefn. Rhaid ichi gloi.

Jenny Randerson spoken in English p. 98

Jenny Randerson siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 98

Concrete plans will be available in time for the next budget planning round. I ask you to support the motion.

Bydd cynlluniau pendant ar gael mewn pryd ar gyfer cylch cynllunio’r gyllideb nesaf. Gofynnaf ichi gefnogi’r cynnig.

Gwelliant 1 Owen John Thomas t. 98

Amendment 1 Owen John Thomas p. 98

GwrthodwydRejected O blaidFor 11 YmatalAbstain 0 Yn erbynAgainst 27

Gwrthodwyd y gwelliant.

Amendment rejected.

Sut y pleidleisiodd yr AelodauHow Members voted
O blaidFor (11)
  • Nick Bourne
  • Alun Cairns
  • Cynog Dafis
  • Glyn Davies
  • Jocelyn Davies
  • William Graham
  • David Ian Jones
  • Elin Jones
  • David Melding
  • Janet Ryder
  • Owen John Thomas
Yn erbynAgainst (27)
  • Lorraine Barrett
  • Mick Bates
  • Eleanor Burnham
  • Christine Chapman
  • Andrew Davies
  • Sue Essex
  • Delyth Evans
  • Michael German
  • Brian Gibbons
  • Janice Gregory
  • John Griffiths
  • Christine Gwyther
  • Alison Halford
  • Edwina Hart
  • Jane Hutt
  • Ann Jones
  • Carwyn Jones
  • Peter Law
  • Huw Lewis
  • Val Lloyd
  • Rhodri Morgan
  • Lynne Neagle
  • Jenny Randerson
  • Karen Sinclair
  • Gwenda Thomas
  • Rhodri Glyn Thomas
  • Kirsty Williams

Gwelliant 2 Glyn Davies t. 98

Amendment 2 Glyn Davies p. 98

GwrthodwydRejected O blaidFor 6 YmatalAbstain 6 Yn erbynAgainst 28

Gwrthodwyd y gwelliant.

Amendment rejected.

Sut y pleidleisiodd yr AelodauHow Members voted
O blaidFor (6)
  • Nick Bourne
  • Alun Cairns
  • Glyn Davies
  • William Graham
  • David Ian Jones
  • David Melding
YmatalAbstain (6)
  • Cynog Dafis
  • Jocelyn Davies
  • Elin Jones
  • Janet Ryder
  • Owen John Thomas
  • Rhodri Glyn Thomas
Yn erbynAgainst (28)
  • Lorraine Barrett
  • Mick Bates
  • Eleanor Burnham
  • Christine Chapman
  • Jane Davidson
  • Andrew Davies
  • Sue Essex
  • Delyth Evans
  • Michael German
  • Brian Gibbons
  • Janice Gregory
  • John Griffiths
  • Christine Gwyther
  • Alison Halford
  • Edwina Hart
  • Jane Hutt
  • Ann Jones
  • Carwyn Jones
  • Peter Law
  • Huw Lewis
  • Val Lloyd
  • Rhodri Morgan
  • Lynne Neagle
  • Alun Pugh
  • Jenny Randerson
  • Karen Sinclair
  • Gwenda Thomas
  • Kirsty Williams

Cynnig NDM1322 Jenny Randerson t. 99

Motion NDM1322 Jenny Randerson p. 99

DerbyniwydAdopted O blaidFor 40 YmatalAbstain 0 Yn erbynAgainst 0

Derbyniwyd y cynnig.

Motion carried.

Sut y pleidleisiodd yr AelodauHow Members voted
O blaidFor (40)
  • Lorraine Barrett
  • Mick Bates
  • Nick Bourne
  • Eleanor Burnham
  • Alun Cairns
  • Christine Chapman
  • Cynog Dafis
  • Jane Davidson
  • Andrew Davies
  • Glyn Davies
  • Jocelyn Davies
  • Sue Essex
  • Delyth Evans
  • Michael German
  • William Graham
  • Janice Gregory
  • John Griffiths
  • Brian Gibbons
  • Christine Gwyther
  • Alison Halford
  • Edwina Hart
  • Jane Hutt
  • Ann Jones
  • Carwyn Jones
  • David Ian Jones
  • Elin Jones
  • Peter Law
  • Huw Lewis
  • Val Lloyd
  • David Melding
  • Rhodri Morgan
  • Lynne Neagle
  • Alun Pugh
  • Jenny Randerson
  • Janet Ryder
  • Karen Sinclair
  • Gwenda Thomas
  • Owen John Thomas
  • Rhodri Glyn Thomas
  • Kirsty Williams

John Marek The Deputy Presiding Officer spoken in English p. 100

John Marek Y Dirprwy Lywydd siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 100

That brings today’s proceedings to a close.

Daw hynny â chyfarfod heddiw i ben.

Daeth y cyfarfod i ben am 5.27 p.m.

The session ended at 5.27 p.m.