English

Cynulliad Cenedlaethol CymruNational Assembly for Wales · Cyfarfod llawnPlenary sitting

Dydd Mawrth 6 Gorffennaf 1999

Tuesday 6 July 1999

DechreuoddMet 14:00 · Daeth i benRose 16:50

Gweld y Cofnod (PDF)View the Record (PDF)

Heb ei wirio â llaw etoNot yet checked by hand

CynnwysContents

  1. 2Anerchiad gan Ei Ardderchowgrwydd Mr Philip Lader, Llysgennad Unol Daleithiau AmericaAddress by His Excellency Mr Philip Lader, Ambassador of the United States of America
  2. 12Datganiad gan y LlywyddStatement by the Presiding Officer
  3. 12Cwestiynau i’r Prif YsgrifennyddQuestions to the First Secretary
    1. 12Awdurdodau Addysg LleolLocal Education Authorities
    2. 14Datblygiadau UwchfarchnadoeddSupermarket Developments
    3. 17Problemau IechydHealth Problems
    4. 18Terfynau Gwario i Awdurdodau LleolSpending Limits for Local Authorities
    5. 22Cymorth i Fusnesau Cynhenid (Cwm Cynon)Support for Indigenous Business (Cynon Valley)
  4. 23Datganiad BusnesBusiness Statement 1 bleidlais1 vote
  5. 27Gofal PlantChildcare 2 o bleidleisiau2 votes
  6. 72Dadl Fer ar Brofion Llygaid am DdimShort Debate on Free Eye Tests 1 bleidlais1 vote

PleidleisiauVotes

PleidlaisVoteO blaidForYmatalAbstainYn erbynAgainstCanlyniadResult
Datganiad BusnesBusiness Statement
PleidlaisVoteDrwy ddangos dwyloShow of handsDerbyniwydAdopted
Gofal PlantChildcare
Gwelliant 1Amendment 1Drwy ddangos dwyloShow of handsDerbyniwydAdopted
CynnigMotionDrwy ddangos dwyloShow of handsDerbyniwydAdopted
Dadl Fer ar Brofion Llygaid am DdimShort Debate on Free Eye Tests
PleidlaisVoteDrwy ddangos dwyloShow of handsGwrthodwydRejected

TrafodionProceedings

Cyfarfu’r Cynulliad am 2 p.m. gyda’r Llywydd yn y Gadair.

The Assembly met at 2 p.m. with the Presiding Officer in the Chair.

Anerchiad gan Ei Ardderchowgrwydd Mr Philip Lader, Llysgennad Unol Daleithiau America

Address by His Excellency Mr Philip Lader, Ambassador of the United States of America

Dafydd Elis-Thomas The Presiding Officer spoken in English p. 2

Dafydd Elis-Thomas Y Llywydd siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 2

It is a particular delight for me to invite the Ambassador of the United States of America to address the Assembly. You are, sir, our first international guest to address the Assembly. Indeed, apart from Her Majesty the Queen and the Prince of Wales, you are the first person to address the assembled Members in the Chamber. Croeso i chi yma—a warm welcome to you.

Hyfrydwch arbennig i mi yw gwahodd Llysgennad Unol Daleithiau America i annerch y Cynulliad. Chi, syr, yw’r gwestai rhyngwladol cyntaf i annerch y Cynulliad. Yn wir, heblaw am Ei Mawrhydi y Frenhines a Thywysog Cymru, chi yw’r cyntaf i annerch cynulliad o’r Aelodau yn y Siambr. Croeso i chi yma—a warm welcome to you.

Mr Philip Lader spoken in Welsh and English p. 2

Mr Philip Lader siaradwyd yn Gymraeg ac yn Saesneg t. 2

Presiding Officer, First Secretary, Assembly Members, ladies and gentlemen, it is of course a great honour for me to be here, particularly at this time. By your leave:

yn Saesneg Lywydd, Brif Ysgrifennydd, Aelodau’r Cynulliad, foneddigion a boneddigesau, mae wrth gwrs yn anrhydedd mawr i mi fod yma, yn enwedig ar hyn o bryd. Gyda’ch cennad:

Mae hi mor braf bod yn ôl yng Nghymru unwaith eto. Ymhell cyn imi gael y fraint o gynrychioli fy ngwlad yn y Deyrnas Unedig, fe ddeuthum o Dde Carolina i Gymru ar wyliau gyda’m gwraig a’m merched, a hyd yn oed ar ôl imi adael y swydd hon yr wyf yn gobeithio’n fawr y gallaf dreulio llawer mwy o amser da yng Nghymru.

in Welsh It is a great joy to be back in Wales once again. Long before I had the honour to represent my country in the United Kingdom, I came from South Carolina to Wales on holiday with my wife and daughters, and even after I leave this post I sincerely hope that I will be able to spend more happy times in Wales.

Dafydd Elis-Thomas The Presiding Officer spoken in English p. 2

Dafydd Elis-Thomas Y Llywydd siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 2

That was almost as good as the Prince of Wales.

Yr oedd hynny bron cystal â Thywysog Cymru.

Mr Philip Lader spoken in English p. 2

Mr Philip Lader siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 2

The true diplomat—he said ‘almost’.

Y gwir ddiplomydd—fe ddywedodd ‘bron’.

Little did I dream, when I first visited Wales as a student of British constitutional history at Oxford, that 30 years later I would return in this capacity to visit this Assembly. The British constitution continues to evolve, and you, the Members of the first Welsh Assembly in 600 years are reshaping it.

Ychydig a feddyliais, pan ymwelais gyntaf â Chymru fel un oedd yn efrydydd yn hanes cyfansoddiadol Prydain yn Rhydychen, y dychwelwn ymhen 30 mlynedd yn rhinwedd y swydd hon i ymweld â’r Cynulliad hwn. Mae’r cyfansoddiad Prydeinig yn parhau i ddatblygu, ac yr ydych chi, Aelodau’r Cynulliad Cymreig cyntaf ers 600 mlynedd yn ei ailffurfio.

Last year, I had the privilege of walking from Land’s End to John O’Groats. When I got to Carlisle, which is, as you all know, near the Scottish border, this woman came out, saw me and said, ‘Great day for walking.’ I agreed. She asked, ‘Where did you start?’ We Americans are not necessarily known for our modesty and so, somewhat smugly, I said, ‘Land’s End’, to which she responded, ‘That’s a good morning’s walk.’

Llynedd, cefais y fraint o gerdded o Ben Tir Cernyw i Benrhyn Cothnais. Pan gyrhaeddais Gaerliwelydd, sydd, fel y gwyddoch i gyd, ger y ffin â’r Alban, fe ddaeth benyw allan, a’m gweld a dweud wrthyf, ‘Diwrnod da i gerdded.’ Cytunais. Gofynnodd i mi, ‘Ym mhle y dechreusoch?’ Nid ydym ni’r Americanwyr yn adnabyddus o reidrwydd am ein gwyleidd-dra ac felly, fe ddywedais, yn hunangyfiawn braidd, ‘Pen Tir Cernyw’, a’i hateb hi oedd, ‘Mae hynny’n fore da o waith cerdded.’

In establishing this Assembly in the context of your remarkable history, Wales has come much further than a good morning’s walk. But the reason I am here today, and feel so privileged, is to assure you that as you continue on your way as an Assembly, the United States of America is with you on this very important journey.

Drwy sefydlu’r Cynulliad hwn yng nghyd-destun eich hanes hynod, fe ddaeth Cymru lawer pellach na bore da o waith cerdded. Ond y rheswm pam yr wyf yma heddiw, ac yn teimlo mor freintiedig, yw i roi sicrwydd ichi wrth ichi barhau ar eich ffordd fel Cynulliad, fod Unol Daleithiau America gyda chi ar y daith dra phwysig hon.

When I walked Offa’s Dyke last year, I reflected on the fact that Welsh American connections are apparent in countless dimensions. We are told that a prince, Owain Gwynedd, reached America in the 12th century and, as a result, historians studying long-extinct native American tribes have discovered Welsh words and customs.

Pan gerddais ar hyd Clawdd Offa llynedd, bûm yn myfyrio ynghylch y ffaith bod y cysylltiadau rhwng Cymru ac America i’w gweld mewn dimensiynau dirifedi. Fe ddywedir wrthym fod tywysog, Owain Gwynedd, wedi cyrraedd America yn y 12fed ganrif ac, o ganlyniad, mae haneswyr a fu’n astudio llwythau brodorol Americanaidd sydd wedi hen ddarfod wedi darganfod geiriau Cymraeg ac arferion Cymreig.

Some say that America was actually named after a Welshman, Richard Amerik, a wealthy Glamorgan customs officer in Bristol in the late 15th century who invested in the second voyage of John Cabot, the first European to land on American soil in 1497.

Fe ddywed rhai fod America wedi ei henwi ar ôl Cymro o Forgannwg, Richard Amerik, swyddog tollau cefnog ym Mryste yn hwyr yn y 15fed ganrif a fuddsoddodd yn ail fordaith John Cabot, yr Ewropead cyntaf i lanio ar dir America yn 1497.

Not many Americans acknowledge the fact that William Penn wanted to name Pennsylvania ‘New Wales’, but instead named it after the Welsh word for head—pen, as in Penrith, and not after himself, as most Americans believe. Consequently, the Welsh American society of Philadelphia is the oldest ethnic organisation of its kind in America.

Nid oes llawer o Americaniaid sy’n cydnabod y ffaith bod William Penn am alw Pennsylvania’n ‘Gymru Newydd’, ond ei fod yn lle hynny wedi ei enwi ar ôl y gair Cymraeg—pen, fel yn Penrith, ac nid ar ei ôl ef ei hun, fel y cred y rhan fwyaf o Americanwyr. O ganlyniad, cymdeithas Gymreig Americanaidd Philadelphia yw’r mudiad ethnig hynaf o’i fath yn Amerca.

In Llanberis, there is a slate memorial to the Welshmen who signed the Declaration of Independence. In Scranton, Pennsylvania, there is a roadside marker commemorating the 125th anniversary of the 1869 Avondale mine disaster.

Yn Llanberis, mae cofeb o lechfaen i’r Cymry a arwyddodd y Datganiad o Annibyniaeth. Yn Scranton, Pennsylvania, mae carreg ar fin y ffordd sy’n coffáu trychineb cloddfa Avondale yn 1869 ar ôl 125 o flynyddoedd.

Compared with Ireland, Scotland and England however, only a tiny number of Welsh people went to America and yet the influence of the Welsh in the new world has been out of proportion to their numbers. Seventeen of the signers of the Declaration of Independence were of Welsh decent. Our chief justice of the Supreme Court, John Marshall, who shaped our constitution, was Welsh; Thomas Jefferson’s family came, as you know, from Snowdonia; a Welshman, George Jones, co-founded The New York Times; a Welsh American named Oliver Evans invented the self-propelled automobile with a steam-powered engine and the great civil war author Harriet Beecher Stowe was Welsh.

O gymharu ag Iwerddon, yr Alban a Lloegr, fodd bynnag, nifer fechan iawn o Gymry a aeth i America ac eto bu dylanwad y Cymry yn y byd newydd yn anghymesur â’u niferoedd. Yr oedd dau ar bymtheg o’r rhai a arwyddodd y Datganiad o Annibyniaeth o dras Gymreig. Yr oedd ein prif ynad yn y Goruchaf Lys, John Marshall, a luniodd ein cyfansoddiad, yn Gymro; yr oedd teulu Thomas Jefferson yn hanu o Eryri, fel y gwyddoch; Cymro, George Jones, a gydsefydlodd The New York Times; Americanwr Cymreig o’r enw Oliver Evans a ddyfeisiodd y car hunanyredig â pheiriant a yrrir gan ager ac yr oedd yr awdur mawr o’r Rhyfel Cartref Harriet Beecher Stowe yn Gymraes.

Brynmawr college has a Welsh name and Yale, Harvard and Brown were founded by Welshmen. Elihu Yale is buried in St Giles’ church in Wrexham. The great architect Frank Lloyd Wright, the fiery labour leader, John Llewellyn Lewis, the muck-raking satirist Sinclair Lewis and the President of the Confederacy Jefferson Davis were all Welsh. More recently, you well know the contributions to arts and entertainment in America of Welshmen such as D. W. Griffith the director, Shirley Bassey, Anthony Hopkins, Tom Jones, Richard Burton, Bob Hope and Howard Stringer. Just a few weeks ago, my wife and I were reminded, when we were with her, of another prominent American’s passionate interest in her Welsh decent—Hillary Rodham Clinton.

Enw Cymraeg sydd ar goleg Brynmawr a sefydlwyd Yale, Harvard a Brown gan Gymry. Claddwyd Elihu Yale yn eglwys Giles yn Wrecsam. Yr oedd y pensaer mawr Frank Lloyd Wright, yr arweinydd llafur tanbaid John Llewellyn Lewis, y dychanwr straegar Sinclair Lewis ac Arlywydd Cynghrair Taleithiau’r De Jefferson Davis oll yn Gymry. Yn ddiweddarach, fe wyddoch yn iawn am y cyfraniadau i’r celfyddydau ac adloniant yn America gan Gymry fel D.W. Griffith y cyfarwyddwr, Shirley Bassey, Anthony Hopkins, Tom Jones, Richard Burton, Bob Hope a Howard Stringer. Ond ychydig wythnosau’n ôl, cafodd fy ngwraig a minnau ein hatgoffa, pan oeddem gyda hi, o ddiddordeb angerddol Americanes enwog arall yn ei thras Gymreig—Hillary Rodham Clinton.

In my office back in London, the new deputy chief of mission, my chief operating officer, is now a fellow by the name of Glyn Davies—he is very proud of his Welsh heritage. I am surrounded by you!

Yn fy swyddfa yn Llundain, dirprwy bennaeth newydd y genhadaeth, fy mrif swyddog gweithredu, yn awr yw cyfaill o’r enw Glyn Davies—mae’n ymfalchïo’n fawr yn ei dreftadaeth Gymreig. Yr ydych o’m cwmpas ym mhob man!

But in trying to bring some of the old country to the new world, the Welsh immigrants left their mark all across America—Bangor, Maine; Cardiff, New Jersey, and the list continues. By the 1850s there were regular Welsh music festivals in my country—song and poetry with which you would be familiar. By 1870, more than 100 Welsh books, pamphlets, hymnals, collected sermons and literary magazines were published. A dozen Welsh language newspapers came and went. In the 1890s—around the peak of Welsh immigration to America—there were more than 500 dedicated Welsh congregations of worship.

Drwy geisio dod â rhywfaint o’r hen wlad i’r byd newydd, fe adawodd y mewnfudwyr o Gymry eu hôl ym mhob rhan o America—Bangor, Maine; Cardiff, New Jersey, ac mae’r rhestr yn mynd ymlaen. Erbyn y 1850au yr oedd gwyliau cerdd Cymraeg yn cael eu cynnal yn rheolaidd yn fy ngwlad—cerddi a chaneuon y byddech yn gyfarwydd â hwy. Erbyn 1870, yr oedd dros 100 o lyfrau, pamffledi, llyfrau emynau, casgliadau pregethau a chylchgronau Cymraeg yn cael eu cyhoeddi. Dechreuodd a darfu am ddwsin o bapurau newydd Cymraeg. Yn y 1890au—o gwmpas brig y mewnfudiad o Gymru i America—yr oedd dros 500 o gynulleidfaoedd o addolwyr Cymraeg selog.

My own home state of South Carolina is a good example. The South Carolina town of Society Hill in Darlington county was originally called Welsh Neck in colonial days. In fact, its current name, Society Hill, was derived from one of the oldest and most distinguished organisations of its kind in America, the St David’s Society. The civic-minded residents of Welsh Neck, who had come from Cardigan and Pembrokeshire in 1703 by way of William Penn’s colony, also founded St David’s Academy in 1778—a pioneer education institution. Their Welsh Neck Baptist church, built in 1738, is one of the oldest in the South, and their library was a beacon of enlightenment throughout the ante-bellum period.

Mae fy nhalaith enedigol De Carolina yn enghraifft dda. Enw gwreiddiol tref Society Hill yn swydd Darlington yn Ne Carolina yn y dyddiau trefedigaethol oedd Welsh Neck. Mewn gwirionedd, mae ei enw presennol, Society Hill, yn deillio o un o’r cymdeithasau hynaf a mwyaf nodedig o’i bath yn America, y St David’s Society. Yr oedd trigolion dinasgar Welsh Neck, a ddaethai o Aberteifi a Sir Benfro yn 1703 drwy wladfa William Penn, hefyd wedi sefydlu’r St David’s Academy yn 1778—sefydliad addysgol arloesol. Eglwys Fedyddwyr Welsh Neck, a godwyd ganddynt yn 1738, yw un o’r hynaf yn y De, ac yr oedd eu llyfrgell yn llusern o oleuni drwy’r cyfnod cyn y Rhyfel Cartref.

In a way—and I use my state just as one example—the Welsh have helped to create the American ideology, the republican doctrine of personal independence and civic virtue.

Mewn ffordd—ac nid wyf ond yn defnyddio fy nhalaith i fel un enghraifft, mae’r Cymry wedi helpu i greu’r syniadaeth Americanaidd, yr athrawiaeth weriniaethol o annibyniaeth bersonol a rhinwedd ddinesig.

Over the 200 years since our independence, our 50 states have become laboratories of democracy. With this new Assembly, Wales may become another important laboratory of democracy, dealing with Welsh problems, finding Welsh opportunities and fashioning Welsh solutions. I am reminded of what Tom Stoppard said:

Dros y 200 mlynedd ers ennill hannibyniaeth, daeth ein taleithiau’n labordai i ddemocratiaeth. Gyda’r Cynulliad newydd hwn, gallai Cymru ddod yn labordy pwysig arall i ddemocratiaeth, gan ymdrin â phroblemau Cymreig, canfod cyfleoedd Cymreig a llunio atebion Cymreig. Fe ddaw’r hyn a ddywedodd Tom Stoppard i gof:

‘It’s not the voting that’s democracy, it’s the counting’.

‘Nid y pleidleisio sy’n gwneud democratiaeth, ond y cyfrif pleidleisiau’.

I might add respectfully, it is not the establishment of the institution, it is the execution which proves democracy.

Fe allwn ychwanegu, yn wylaidd, nad creu sefydliad, ond gweithredu yw’r hyn sy’n profi democratiaeth.

Yesterday was an extraordinary day for me. Here in Wales, on the same day, I went to the ancient gardens of Aberglasney, the garden lost in time. A few hours later, I visited the Millennium Stadium, the most advanced technology construction, fit for a new century. A garden lost in time, a stadium looking forward to a new century.

Yr oedd ddoe’n ddiwrnod arbennig i mi. Yma yng Nghymru, ar yr un diwrnod, euthum i erddi hynafol Aberglasney, yr ardd a aethai i ddifancoll. Ychydig oriau wedyn, ymwelais â Stadiwm y Mileniwm, adeiladwaith a godwyd â’r dechnoleg ddiweddaraf, yn addas i ganrif newydd. Gardd a aethai i ddifancoll, a stadiwm sy’n edrych ymlaen i ganrif newydd.

I would suggest that on no subject related to this Assembly do we Americans have greater interest than in how you balance the mandates of cultural preservation and economic development. Promotion of economic development is part of your remit. As you well know, the Assembly is the only representative body in Europe with a statutory duty to consult business. As a former businessman, I hope you will take seriously this responsibility and opportunity.

Hoffwn awgrymu nad oes yr un pwnc sy’n gysylltiedig â’r Cynulliad hwn y mae gennym ni Americanwyr fwy o ddiddordeb ynddo na’r modd y byddwch yn cydbwyso mandadau cadwraeth ddiwylliannol a datblygu economaidd. Mae hybu datblygu economaidd yn rhan o’ch cylch gorchwyl. Fel y gwyddoch yn iawn, y Cynulliad yw’r unig gorff cynrychioladol yn Ewrop a chanddo ddyletswydd statudol i ymgynghori â busnes. Fel cyn-ŵr busnes, hyderaf y byddwch o ddifrif ynghylch y cyfrifoldeb a’r cyfle hwn.

Last night, I was privileged with your First Secretary, Rhodri Morgan and others amongst you, to take part in the launch of the new Wales North-American Business Council. My message to them and to you is simply this: we Americans stand ready to assist in the continued economic development of Wales, as I trust we already have. However, we see in this a balance between inward investment, in which the Welsh Development Agency has been rather successful, and new business formation and growth.

Neithiwr, cefais y fraint gyda’ch Prif Ysgrifennydd, Rhodri Morgan ac eraill yn eich mysg, o gymryd rhan yn lansio Cyngor Busnes Cymru Gogledd-America. Y neges sydd gennyf iddynt hwy ac i chi, yn syml, yw hyn: yr ydym ni Americanwyr yn barod o hyd i helpu yn natblygiad economaidd parhaus Cymru, fel y gwnaethom eisoes, gobeithio. Fodd bynnag, fe welwn yn hynny gydbwysedd rhwng buddsoddi o’r tu allan, y bu Awdurdod Datblygu Cymru, yn eithaf llwyddiannus ynddo, a ffurfio a thyfu busnesau newydd.

You know all the American businesses that have already discovered the advantages of setting up shop in Wales. Since 1983, US capital expenditure in Wales has totalled £4.6 billion. It has created 22,000 new jobs and safeguarded a further 26,000 jobs that were threatened. There are already 143 American companies with significant investments in Wales: GE, Ford, 3M, Dow Corning, Kelloggs, Raytheon, Texaco, Bank One, International Rectifier, among others.

Fe wyddoch am yr holl fusnesau Americanaidd sydd eisoes wedi darganfod manteision ymsefydlu yng Nghymru. Ers 1983, cyfanswm gwariant cyfalaf UDA yng Nghymru yw £4.6 biliwn. Creodd 22,000 o swyddi newydd a diogelodd 26,000 o swyddi pellach oedd dan fygythiad. Eisoes mae 143 o gwmnïau Americanaidd â buddsoddiadau sylweddol yng Nghymru: GE, Ford, 3M, Dow Corning, Kelloggs, Raytheon, Texaco, Bank One, International Rectifier, ymysg eraill.

We Americans encourage this Assembly to continue to work with trades unions, local authorities and the City to maintain an environment in which Wales continues to be a primary target for American investment. However, we also take the liberty of encouraging you to look to America as to what we have done right and what we have done wrong in fostering enterprise.

Yr ydym ni Americanwyr yn annog y Cynulliad hwn i barhau i weithio gydag undebau llafur, awdurdodau lleol a’r Ddinas i gynnal amgylchedd lle y bydd Cymru o hyd yn brif darged i fuddsoddi o America. Fodd bynnag, yr ydym hefyd yn mentro’ch annog i edrych tuag at America o ran yr hyn a wnaethom yn iawn a’r hyn a wnaethom o’i le wrth feithrin mentergarwch.

America today, if I can take just a moment to seem even more immodest, has had the longest peacetime economic expansion in our history. We have the lowest unemployment in 41 years, the lowest core inflation rate in three decades, and the highest home ownership rate in our country’s history.

Mae America heddiw, os gallaf gymryd eiliad i ymddangos yn llai anwylaidd byth, wedi profi’r ehangu economaidd hwyaf yn amser heddwch yn ein hanes. Mae gennym y diweithdra isaf mewn 41 mlynedd, y gyfradd chwyddiant craidd isaf mewn tri degawd, a’r gyfradd uchaf o ran perchenogaeth ar dai yn hanes ein gwlad.

Why? A significant reason is the fact that since 1990, 70 per cent of the net new jobs in the United States have come from new businesses. Since 1993, 18 million new jobs have been created in the United States, 92 per cent of which have been in the private sector. Last year, 2 million new businesses were formed by Americans under the age of 30 and 6 per cent of American adults every day are in some stage of starting their own business. In 1995, the last year for which we have such statistics, 13 per cent of all American workers were employed by companies that did not even exist in 1990. This is not by accident and so I hope that, as you work with the Wales North-American Business Council, the trades unions and the universities, this Assembly will make possible opportunities for internships, public-private financing agencies, university linkages and voluntary sector association with many of our American colleagues.

Pam? Un rheswm arwyddocaol yw’r ffaith bod 70 y cant o’r swyddi newydd clir yn yr Unol Daleithiau, ers 1990, wedi dod o fusnesau newydd. Ers 1993, crewyd 18 miliwn o swyddi newydd yn yr Unol Daleithiau, 92 y cant ohonynt yn y sector preifat. Llynedd, ffurfiwyd 2 filiwn o fusnesau newydd gan Americanwyr o dan 30 oed a phob dydd bydd 6 cant o Americanwyr mewn oed yn y broses o gychwyn eu busnesau eu hunain. Yn 1995, y flwyddyn ddiwethaf y mae gennym ystadegau ar ei chyfer, yr oedd 13 y cant o holl weithwyr America wedi eu cyflogi gan gwmnïau nad oeddent hyd yn oed yn bod yn 1990. Nid drwy ddamwaith y digwyddodd hyn ac felly hyderaf, wrth ichi weithio gyda Chyngor Busnes Cymru Gogledd-America, yr undebau llafur a’r prifysgolion, y bydd y Cynulliad hwn yn darparu cyfleoedd ar gyfer swyddi preswyl, asiantaethau ariannu cyhoeddus-preifat, cysylltiadau â phrifysgolion a chysylltiad drwy’r sector gwirfoddol â llawer o’n cyd-weithwyr Americanaidd.

This enterprise infrastructure consists of a profusion of experienced managers willing to take risks, early-stage venture capital and active angels networks of investors. It includes wellsprings of new technologies and new business ideas, schools and universities. It must have lawyers, bankers, accountants and marketing specialists who are willing to work with entrepreneurs. It should have stock markets that welcome entrepreneurs and, especially important, the regulatory, tax and education framework that fosters new business formation and growth.

Mae’r isadeiledd menter hwn yn cynnwys llu o reolwyr profiadol sy’n barod i fentro, cyfalaf menter cynnar a rhwydweithiau o fuddsoddwyr gwarchodol gweithgar. Mae’n cynnwys tarddleoedd technolegau newydd a syniadau busnes newydd, ysgolion a phrifysgolion. Rhaid iddo wrth gyfreithwyr, bancwyr, cyfrifwyr ac arbenigwyr marchnata sy’n barod i weithio gydag entrepreneuriaid. Dylai fod â marchnadoedd stoc sy’n croesawu entrepreneuriaid ac, yn arbennig o bwysig, y fframwaith o reoleiddio, trethu ac addysgu sy’n hybu ffurfiant a thwf busnesau newydd.

You and I may have as much difficulty understanding some of these ‘fast companies’ as I have in understanding your language: pharmacogenomics, asymmetric digital subscriber lines, fluorescent DNA sequencing. But all of that is in Wales today and we must understand that whatever distinctions still remain between left and right, politician and businessman, day-trader and City banker, today they are being blurred by the enterprise spirit.

Fe allech chi a minnau ei chael yr un mor anodd i ddeall rhai o’r ‘cwmnïau cyflym’ hyn ag ydyw i mi ddeall eich iaith chi: ffarmacogenomeg, llinellau tanysgrifwyr digidol anghymesur, dilyniannu fflworolau ar DNA. Ond fe geir hyn oll yng Nghymru heddiw a rhaid inni ddeall, pa bynnag wahaniaethau sy’n bod o hyd rhwng y de a’r chwith, y gwleidydd a’r dyn busnes, t stondinwr marchnad a’r banciwr yn y Ddinas, eu bod yn cael eu cymylu bellach drwy ysbryd mentergarwch.

We Americans need to learn from you: how you have balanced, and how you will continue to balance, heritage and prosperity; how simultaneously you will address cultural aspirations and material needs.

Mae angen i ni Americanwyr ddysgu oddi wrthych chi: sut yr ydych wedi cydbwyso treftadaeth a ffyniant, a sut y byddwch yn parhau i wneud hynny; sut y byddwch yn ymdrin â dyheadau diwylliannol ac anghenion materol yr un pryd.

Governing, in the American experience, has been found never to be easy. The former Governor of New York, Mario Cuomo, said: ‘We campaign in poetry; we govern in prose.’

Ni chafwyd erioed fod llywodraethu yn beth hawdd, yn ôl y profiad yn America. Dywedodd cyn-Lywodraethwr Efrog Newydd, Mario Cuomo: ‘Byddwn yn ymgyrchu mewn barddoniaeth; byddwn yn llywodraethu mewn rhyddiaith.’

There are difficult decisions ahead for you: ensuring equal participation in the benefits of prosperity for both north and south, rural and urban; full access to quality health care; a curriculum that reflects a bilingual and bicultural nation; how to save rural schools; how to promote Welsh development without compromising Welsh culture.

Mae yna benderfyniadau anodd o’ch blaen: sicrhau cyfranogi cyfartal ym manteision ffyniant gan y gogledd a’r de, yr ardaloedd gwledig a’r ardaloedd trefol; mynediad cyflawn at ofal iechyd o ansawdd da; cwricwlwm sy’n adlewyrchu cenedl ac iddi ddwy iaith a dau ddiwylliant; sut i achub ysgolion gwledig; sut i hybu datblygiad Cymru heb beryglu ei diwylliant.

We cannot let politics do the work of economics. That is why I took this occasion to emphasise how we Americans think your role will be essential to forging the cultural, political and, especially, the business ties between our two countries. It is an exciting time to be Welsh. Just ask Cerys Matthews, the Manic Street Preachers or Alun Michael.

Ni allwn adael i wleidyddiaeth gyflawni gwaith economeg. Dyna pam y manteisiais ar yr achlysur hwn i bwysleisio’r modd yr ydym ni Americanwyr yn credu y bydd eich rôl yn hanfodol wrth ffurfio’r cysylltiadau diwylliannol, gwleidyddol ac, yn arbennig, y cysylltiadau busnes rhwng ein dwy wlad. Mae’n adeg gyffrous i fod yn Gymry. Nid oes ond rhaid gofyn i Cerys Matthews, y Manic Street Preachers neu Alun Michael.

However, I learned last year in that walk from Land’s End to John O’Groats the truth of the Spanish proverb:

Fodd bynnag, fe ddysgais ar y daith honno o Ben Tir Cernyw i Benrhyn Cothnais wirionedd y ddihareb Sbaeneg:

‘There are no roads: roads are made by walking.’

‘Nid oes ffyrdd: fe wneir ffyrdd drwy gerdded.’

Know that, however uncertain the path, the Welsh and we Americans walk together. And we can walk in confidence, knowing that we are in the company of trusted friends.

Gwybyddwch, pa mor ansicr bynnag y bo’r llwybr, y bydd y Cymry a ninnau Americanwyr yn cydgerdded. A gallwn gerdded yn hyderus, gan wybod ein bod yng nghwmni cyfeillion triw.

Dafydd Elis-Thomas The Presiding Officer spoken in English p. 9

Dafydd Elis-Thomas Y Llywydd siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 9

On behalf of the Assembly, I call the First Secretary to thank the Ambassador.

A ran y Cynulliad, galwaf ar y Prif Ysgrifennydd i ddiolch i’r Llysgennad.

Alun Michael The First Secretary spoken in Welsh and English p. 9

Alun Michael Y Prif Ysgrifennydd siaradwyd yn Gymraeg ac yn Saesneg t. 9

This is an opportunity for the Ambassador to make a second entry into the Chamber because his first was so welcome to the Assembly.

yn Saesneg Mae hyn yn gyfle i’r Llysgennad ddod i’r Siambr yr eildro oherwydd yr oedd cymaint o groeso iddo gan y Cynulliad y tro cyntaf.

Mae’n bleser mawr gennyf ddiolch i Lysgennad America am ei bresenoldeb yma heddiw, ei anerchiad i’r Cynulliad ac am ei gefnogaeth i’r cysylltiad rhwng pobl fusnes yn yr Unol Daleithiau a Chymru.

in Welsh It is a great pleasure to thank the American Ambassador for his presence here today, his address to the Assembly and his support for the strong association between business people in the United States and Wales.

You said that you came here as a student of British constitutional history. I hope that you have enjoyed contributing to Welsh constitutional history by becoming the first Ambassador to speak to the Assembly and honouring this bilingual body by speaking in Welsh as well as English.

yn Saesneg Fe ddywedsoch ichi ddod yma fel efrydydd yn hanes cyfansoddiadol Prydain. Gobeithio ichi fwynhau cyfrannu i hanes cyfansoddiadol Cymru fel y Llysgennad cyntaf i annerch y Cynulliad a drwy anrhydeddu’r corff dwyieithog hwn drwy siarad yn Gymraeg yn ogystal â Saesneg.

You referred to the natural modesty of United States citizens and spoke generously of the Welsh contribution to America. We are sometimes too modest to remember that or we tend to overlook it. We should respect and honour the contribution of American companies that employ 35,000 people in Wales such as Ford, Bank One, TRW, Northern Telecom, General Electric, Monsanto, Dow Corning, Newbridge Networks and International Rectifier. This long list keeps growing. Since May 1997, North American-owned companies in Wales have promised projects involving capital investments of £304 million, the creation of 4,207 new jobs and 1,955 safeguarded jobs. That is good reason for us to welcome and seek to develop the contacts between Wales and the United States.

yn Saesneg Yr ydych wedi cyfeirio at wyleidd-dra naturiol dinasyddion yr Unol Daleithiau ac wedi sôn yn haelfrydig am gyfraniad y Cymry i America. Yr ydym ni weithiau’n rhy wylaidd i gofio hynny neu’n tueddu i’w anghofio. Fe ddylem barchu ac anrhydeddu cyfraniad cwmnïau Americanaidd sy’n cyflogi 35,000 o bobl yng Nghymru fel Ford, Bank One, TRW, Northern Telecom, General Electric, Monsanto, Dow Corning, Newbridge Networks ac International Rectifier. Mae’r rhestr faith hon yn dal i dyfu. Ers Mai 1997, mae cwmnïau yng Nghymru sy’n eiddo i rai yng Ngogledd America wedi addo projectau sy’n golygu buddsoddiadau cyfalaf o £304 miliwn, creu 4,207 o swyddi newydd a diogelu 1,955 o swyddi. Mae hynny’n rheswm da inni groesawu a cheisio datblygu cysylltiadau rhwng Cymru a’r Unol Daleithiau.

I am delighted that you so positively reflect the warmth of feeling between Wales and America, which I saw reflected when on an inward investment mission in March to the east coast of America and Canada, and in the welcome that Peter Hain received recently. You mentioned Howard Stringer, who refers to himself as Welsh-born, always seeing the opportunity to make connections back home. It was tremendous to see him and many others along with yourself at the museum when we had our special day commemorating the opening of the Assembly.

yn Saesneg Hyfrydwch i mi yw eich bod yn adlewyrchu cynhesrwydd y teimladau rhwng Cymru ac America, rhywbeth a welais hefyd pan oeddwn ar daith ym mis Mawrth i ddenu buddsoddiad ar arfordir dwyreiniol America a Chanada, ac yn y croeso a roddwyd yn ddiweddar i Peter Hain. Yr oeddech wedi sôn am Howard Stringer, sy’n cyfeirio ato’i hun fel un a aned yng Nghymru, sydd bob amser yn gweld cyfle i wneud cysylltiadau yn ei hen wlad. Gwych oedd ei weld ef a llawer un arall yn ogystal â chi’ch hun yn yr amgueddfa pan gawsom ein diwrnod arbennig i nodi agor y Cynulliad.

You stress the importance of working together more than anything else. You have certainly put your money where your mouth is in terms of working together. I thank you for the co-operation you have offered us in establishing the Wales North American Business Council. It is a most welcome initiative. Your participation is enormously significant and important to us.

yn Saesneg Yr ydych yn rhoi mwy o bwys ar gydweithio nag ar ddim arall. Mae’n sicr eich bod wedi rhoi’ch arian ar eich gair o ran cydweithio. Diolchaf ichi am y cydweithio yr ydych wedi ei gynnig i ni drwy sefydlu Cyngor Busnes Cymru Gogledd-America. Mae’n fenter sydd i’w chroesawu’n fawr. Mae’ch cyfraniad yn aruthrol o bwysig ac arwyddocaol i ni.

You have a team playing in the rugby world cup. After beating the world champions, we are slightly less worried about them. It is cultural and business links, as well as the contact between us that will be important. The balance of inward investment, indigenous growth and partnership with American companies that have grown up in Wales is important. I hope that American companies will recognise our saying that once a company has a factory or has invested in Wales, it becomes a Welsh company. That is the extent of our welcome. It also allows us to say that Ford and GE are Welsh companies.

yn Saesneg Mae gennych dîm yn chwarae yng nghwpan rygbi’r byd. Ar ôl curo pencampwyr y byd, yr ydym yn poeni ychydig llai amdanynt. Y cysylltiadau diwylliannol a busnes, yn ogystal â’r cyswllt rhyngom, fydd yn bwysig. Mae cydbwysedd y buddsoddi o’r tu allan, y twf cynhenid a’r bartneriaeth â chwmnïau Americanaidd a dyfodd yng Nghymru yn bwysig. Gobeithio y bydd cwmnïau Americanaidd yn cydnabod y dywediad sydd gennym bod cwmni, wedi iddo gael ffatri neu wedi iddo fuddsoddi yng Nghymru, yn dod yn gwmni Cymreig. Dyna faint ein croeso. Mae’n caniatáu inni ddweud mai cwmnïau Cymreig yw Ford a GE.

The Assembly in its early days is trying to look outwards to the United Kingdom, Europe and the world, rather than just inward. Your presence here today has been a salutary reminder to us of how ambitious we have to be for our small country. You visited Aberglasney yesterday and that is an example of both digging into the roots of our history with confidence and looking forward to the future with the same confidence.

yn Saesneg Yn ei ddyddiau cynnar, mae’r Cynulliad yn ceisio edrych tuag allan i’r Deyrnas Unedig, Ewrop a gweddill y byd, yn hytrach nag edrych tuag i mewn yn unig. Mae’ch presenoldeb yma heddiw yn fodd llesol i’n hatgoffa pa mor uchelgeisiol y bydd raid inni fod dros ein gwlad fach ni. Fe ymwelasoch ag Aberglasney ddoe ac mae hynny’n enghraifft o dyrchu i wraidd ein hanes yn hyderus ac edrych ymlaen tua’r dyfodol gyda’r un hyder.

Your visit treats the Assembly and Wales with respect and I thank you. It reminds us that we must also treat Wales with respect and make connections for our people in Wales with the wider world.

yn Saesneg Mae’ch ymweliad yn trin y Cynulliad a Chymru â pharch ac yr wyf yn diolch i chi. Mae’n ein hatgoffa bod rhaid i ninnau drin Cymru â pharch a gwneud cysylltiadau ar ran ein pobl yng Nghymru â’r byd y tu allan.

Diolch am gymryd y diddordeb, fel Llysgennad yr Unol Daleithiau, i ddod yma a rhoi anerchiad i ni heddiw. Mae’n eglur i ni y byddwch yn Llysgennad dros Gymru hefyd. Diolch yn fawr.

in Welsh I thank the United States Ambassador for taking an interest in Wales by coming here to address us today. It is obvious to us that you will be an Ambassador for Wales as well. Thank you very much.

Datganiad gan y Llywydd

Statement by the Presiding Officer

Dafydd Elis-Thomas Y Llywydd siaradwyd yn Gymraeg t. 12

Dafydd Elis-Thomas The Presiding Officer spoken in Welsh p. 12

Galwaf y Cynulliad i drefn. Mae gennyf ddatganiad i’w wneud ar y system bleidleisio electronig. Rhoddais wybod i’r Aelodau yr wythnos diwethaf fod y system bleidleisio electronig yn cael ei phrofi. Mae’r gwaith hwnnw wedi dod i ben. Cafodd y system gyfan ei phrofi ac yr oedd yn gweithio. Yr wyf bellach yn fodlon y gallwn ei defnyddio. Os cawn unrhyw bleidleisiau cadarnhau heddiw, byddwn yn defnyddio’r system electronig.

I call the Assembly to order. I have a statement to make on the electronic voting system. I advised Members last week that the electronic voting system was being tested. That work has been completed. The whole system was tested and was working. I am satisfied that that we can use it. If we have any confirmatory votes today, we shall use the electronic system.

Fe welwch fod eich cardiau pleidleisio wedi’u tynnu allan o’r holltau yn y paneli pleidleisio ar eich desgiau. Tanio’r system gyda’r cardiau yn eu lle oedd rhan o’r broblem. Mae yna gwestiwn o ddiogelwch ac felly bydd cardiau pleidleisio yn cael eu rhoi i Aelodau cyn pob pleidlais electronig, yn ystod y pum munud pan fyddwn yn galw pleidlais. Yna, dylid rhoi’r cardiau i mewn gyda’r sglodyn aur yn wynebu tuag i fyny a bydd y tic gwyrdd yn goleuo. Fe gawn weld.

You will notice that your voting cards have been removed from the slots on the voting panels on your desks. Part of the problem was booting the system with the cards in place. There is an issue of security and so voting cards will be given to Members before each electronic vote during the five minutes of a vote being called. Cards should then be inserted with the gold chip facing upwards and the green tick will light. We shall see.

Cwestiynau i’r Prif Ysgrifennydd

Questions to the First Secretary

Awdurdodau Addysg Lleol

Local Education Authorities

Q1 Jenny Randerson spoken in English p. 12

C1 Jenny Randerson siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 12

How many local education authorities have so far filed details as required of how they spent the additional money allocated to schools this year and which LEAs have so far failed to do so? (OAQ311AG)

Hyd yn hyn, sawl awdurdod addysg lleol sydd wedi cofnodi manylion yn unol â’r gofyn o sut y maent wedi gwario’r arian ychwanegol a ddyrannwyd i’r ysgolion eleni a pha awdurdodau sydd wedi methu â gwneud hynny hyd yn hyn? (OAQ311AG)

Alun Michael The First Secretary spoken in English p. 12

Alun Michael Y Prif Ysgrifennydd siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 12

I am pleased to say that all local authorities have submitted returns, giving their overall education budgets and the amounts delegated to schools. The information is being analysed.

Yr wyf yn falch o ddweud bod yr holl awdurdodau lleol wedi cyflwyno ffurflenni, gan nodi eu cyllidebau addysg cyffredinol a’r symiau a ddirprwywyd i ysgolion. Mae’r wybodaeth yn cael ei dadansoddi.

Jenny Randerson spoken in English p. 13

Jenny Randerson siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 13

There was a delay experienced as many LEAs did not present the information by the correct date. In view of the concern that perhaps not all the money has been passed on to schools, do you share my additional worry at the recent decision taken by Cardiff County Council to make its director of education redundant and enlist a corporate management team that does not include anyone with educational expertise? Is this not against section 532 of the Education Act 1996, which deals with the appointment of directors of education? In face of strong concerns expressed by trade unions, teachers and parents in Cardiff, will you consider using your powers under this Act to enforce compliance?

Yr oedd oedi wedi digwydd am nad oedd llawer o awdurdodau addysg lleol wedi cyflwyno’r wybodaeth erbyn y dyddiad cywir. Yng ngolwg y pryder nad yw’r holl arian efallai wedi ei drosglwyddo i ysgolion, a ydych yn rhannu’r pryder ychwanegol sydd gennyf ynghylch y penderfyniad diweddar gan Gyngor Sir Caerdydd i ddiswyddo ei gyfarwyddwr addysg a chael gafael ar dîm rheoli corfforaethol nad yw’n cynnwys neb sydd ag arbenigaeth addysgol? Onid yw hyn yn groes i adran 532 Deddf Addysg 1996, sy’n ymdrin â phenodi cyfarwyddwyr addysg? Yn wyneb y pryderon cryf a fynegwyd gan undebau llafur, athrawon a rhieni yng Nghaerdydd, a ydych yn fodlon ystyried defnyddio’ch pwerau o dan y Ddeddf hon i orfodi cydymffurfiad?

Alun Michael The First Secretary spoken in English p. 13

Alun Michael Y Prif Ysgrifennydd siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 13

That question strays away from the subject of the spending allocated to schools by LEAs, but I congratulate you on inventiveness if nothing else. It would be more appropriate for you to pursue this type of issue in the chamber of Cardiff County Council. We must remember our responsibilities as an Assembly and not try to take decisions for local authorities.

Mae’r cwestiwn hwnnw’n crwydro oddi wrth bwnc y gwariant a ddyrannwyd i ysgolion gan awdurdodau addysg lleol. ond fe’ch llongyfarchaf ar eich dyfeisgarwch yn anad dim. Byddai’n fwy priodol pe baech yn dilyn mater o’r math hwn yn siambr Cyngor Sir Caerdydd. Rhaid inni gofio’n cyfrifoldebau fel Cynulliad a pheidio â cheisio gwneud penderfyniadau dros awdurdodau lleol.

We must ensure that money gets through to schools. That is something we must do in partnership with local authorities, through the Welsh Local Government Association and the Partnership Council. Those are the places where the principle needs to be debated.

Rhaid inni sicrhau bod arian yn cyrraedd yr ysgolion. Mae hynny’n rhywbeth y bydd raid inni ei wneud mewn partneriaeth ag awdurdodau lleol, drwy Gymdeithas Llywodraeth Leol Cymru a’r Cyngor Partneriaeth. Dyna’r mannau lle y mae angen trafod yr egwyddor.

Rod Richards spoken in English p. 13

Rod Richards siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 13

Does the First Secretary recall an answer to a written question he gave me a couple of weeks ago, when I asked what proportion of the £844 million he keeps boasting about has gone to education? Does he recall his answer of some £225 million: only 27 per cent? Is the First Secretary satisfied with that percentage? Of that small percentage that was identified as part of the local government revenue settlement, does he agree that all of the schools budget—100 per cent—should be delegated to schools? What figure will he recommend to local education authorities for delegation to schools?

A yw’r Prif Ysgrifennydd yn cofio ateb i gwestiwn ysgrifenedig a roddodd i mi ychydig wythnosau’n ôl, pryd y gofynnais pa gyfran o’r £844 miliwn y mae’n dal i frolio yn ei gylch sydd wedi mynd at addysg? A yw’n cofio ei ateb o ryw £225 miliwn: dim ond 27 y cant? A yw’r Prif Ysgrifennydd yn fodlon â’r ganran honno? O’r ganran fechan honno a ddynodwyd yn rhan o setliad refeniw llywodraeth leol, a yw’n cytuno y dylid dirprwyo’r cwbl o gyllideb yr ysgolion—100 y cant—i’r ysgolion? Pa ffigur y byddai ef yn ei argymell i awdurdodau addysg lleol i’w ddirprwyo i ysgolion?

Alun Michael The First Secretary spoken in English p. 14

Alun Michael Y Prif Ysgrifennydd siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 14

That is what I call a Westminster-style question because its basis is that you want all the funds for further education colleges, for instance, to be given to schools. You have chosen a totally inappropriate percentage. The £844 million includes not just the budget for school education but a wide range of educational provision. As I indicated in my response to Jenny Randerson, we now have the information from education authorities and are going through it to discover precisely what has happened about money going to schools as intended. Once analysed, that information will be shared with the Assembly and we can judge on the facts.

Mae hynny’n rhywbeth a alwn yn gwestiwn yn null San Steffan oherwydd y sail iddo yw eich bod am weld y cwbl o’r arian i golegau addysg bellach, er enghraifft, yn cael ei roi i ysgolion. Yr ydych wedi dewis canran gwbl amhriodol. Mae’r £844 miliwn yn cynnwys nid yn unig y gyllideb ar gyfer addysg mewn ysgolion ond amrediad eang o ddarpariaeth addysgol. Fel y nodais yn f’ateb i Jenny Randerson, yr ydym bellach wedi derbyn yr wybodaeth oddi wrth yr awdurdodau addysg ac yn mynd drwyddi er mwyn darganfod yn union beth a ddigwyddodd ynghylch arian yn mynd i’r ysgolion fel y bwriadwyd. Ar ôl ei dadansoddi, fe rennir yr wybodaeth honno â’r Cynulliad a gallwn farnu’n ôl y ffeithiau.

Owen John Thomas spoken in English p. 14

Owen John Thomas siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 14

Will the First Secretary support action to improve the relationship between LEAs and schools, which is in danger of deteriorating drastically if local authorities follow the example of Cardiff in getting rid of the vital post of director of education?

A yw’r Prif Ysgrifennydd yn fodlon cefnogi camau i wella’r berthynas rhwng awdurdodau addysg lleol ac ysgolion, sydd mewn perygl o ddirywio’n enbyd os bydd awdurdodau lleol yn dilyn esiampl Caerdydd drwy gael gwared ar swydd hanfodol y cyfarwyddwr addysg?

Alun Michael The First Secretary spoken in English p. 14

Alun Michael Y Prif Ysgrifennydd siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 14

Obviously inventiveness is catching. I do not have details of the decisions made by Cardiff or its arrangements for the management of its responsibilities as the local education authority. If any matter that comes under the responsibilities of the Assembly is affected by that, the Assembly Secretary and Committee responsible for education and children should look at it. However, I think it would be premature for me to respond to the question as it is posed.

Mae’n amlwg bod y dyfeisgarwch yn ymledu. Nid oes gennyf fanylion am y penderfyniadau a wnaed gan Gaerdydd nac am ei drefniadau i reoli ei gyfrifoldebau fel yr awdurdod addysg lleol. Os bydd unrhyw fater a ddaw o fewn cyfrifoldebau’r Cynulliad yn cael ei effeithio gan hynny, fe ddylai’r Ysgrifennydd Cynulliad a’r Pwyllgor sy’n gyfrifol am addysg a phlant roi ystyriaeth i hynny. Fodd bynnag, credaf ei bod yn rhy gynnar imi ateb y cwestiwn fel y’i rhoddwyd.

Datblygiadau Uwchfarchnadoedd

Supermarket Developments

Q2 Peter Black spoken in English p. 14

C2 Peter Black siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 14

What plans are there to relax planning constraints on large out-of-town supermarket developments in Wales? (OAQ292VB)

Pa gynlluniau sydd ar gael i leihau cyfyngiadau cynllunio ar ddatblygiadau uwchfarchnadoedd mawr ar gyrion trefi yng Nghymru? (OAQ292VB)

Alun Michael The First Secretary spoken in English p. 14

Alun Michael Y prif Ysgrifennydd siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 14

I am pleased to say none whatsoever. The present guidance was set out in ‘Planning Guidance for Wales’, published in April. This specifically encourages new retail development in town centres and only if town-centre sites are not available should out-of-town sites be sought.

Yr wyf yn falch o ddweud nad oes dim o gwbl. Fe gyflwynwyd yr arweiniad presennol yn ‘Arweiniad ar Gynllunio i Gymru’, a gyhoeddwyd yn Ebrill. Mae hyn yn benodol yn annog datblygiadau adwerthu newydd yng nghanol trefi a dim ond os nad oes safleoedd ar gael yng nghanol trefi y dylid chwilio am safleoedd ar gyrion trefi.

Peter Black spoken in English p. 15

Peter Black siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 15

Thank you for that encouraging answer. However, we need to go further given that research shows we have a net loss of 270 food and retail industry jobs for every new supermarket opened. Will you consider amending the planning guidance note to have a presumption against out-of-town shopping centres?

Diolch i chi am yr ateb calonogol hwnnw. Fodd bynnag, mae angen inni fynd ymhellach gan fod ymchwil yn dangos y bydd gennym golled glir o 270 o swyddi yn y diwydiant bwyd ac adwerthu am bob uwchfarchnad newydd a agorir. A fyddech cystal ag ystyried newid y nodyn arweiniad cynllunio fel bod ynddo ragdybiaeth yn erbyn canolfannau siopa ar gyrion trefi?

Alun Michael The First Secretary spoken in English p. 15

Alun Michael Y Prif Ysgrifennydd siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 15

My first answer indicated that presumption, as does the way in which planning guidance has been tightened up during my period as Secretary of State for Wales. I am certain the Assembly will want to consider this topic. Planning guidance has to be approached carefully. It is a policy matter that affects the Assembly in its judicial function of dealing with appeals. It is important that the guidance given is carefully thought out and judicious so that we can be judicial when judging individual issues. I appreciate that there is a history to this topic. There have been cases where town centres have been threatened by a large amount of out-of-town development. There have been other developments that have not posed that threat and extended people’s options. The guidance as it stands goes in the direction you suggest.

Yr oedd f’ateb cyntaf yn nodi’r rhagdybiaeth honno, yn yr un modd ag y mae’r ffordd y tynhawyd yr arweiniad ar gynllunio yn ystod fy nghyfnod yn Ysgrifennydd Gwladol Cymru. Yr wyf yn sicr y bydd y Cynulliad am ystyried y pwnc hwn. Rhaid ymdrin yn ofalus ag arweiniad ar gynllunio. Mae’n fater polisi sy’n effeithio ar y Cynulliad yn ei swyddogaeth farnwrol o ymdrin ag apeliadau. Mae’n bwysig bod yr arweiniad a roddir yn ddoeth ac wedi ei ystyried yn ofalus fel y gallwn fod yn farnwrol wrth ddyfarnu ar faterion unigol. Yr wyf yn sylweddoli bod hanes i’r pwnc hwn. Fe gafwyd achosion pryd y mae canol trefi wedi eu bygwth gan lawer o ddatblygu ar gyrion trefi. Cafwyd datblygiadau eraill sydd heb olygu bygythiad o’r fath ac sydd wedi ymestyn dewisiadau pobl. Mae’r arweiniad fel y mae yn mynd i’r cyfeiriad a awgrymwch.

Janet Ryder spoken in English p. 15

Janet Ryder siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 15

Out-of-town developments usually cause local unhappiness. Community councils and local groups often feel that their views are not considered. Do you agree that the planning process needs to be reviewed and, as part of that review, will you ensure that community councils’ views are taken into account? Will you also look at ways of giving local community groups and individuals the right to have their feelings put before planning committees, either by themselves or through an advocate?

Bydd datblygiadau ar gyrion trefi fel arfer yn achosi adfodlonrwydd lleol. Bydd cynghorau cymuned a grwpiau lleol yn teimlo’n aml na roddir ystyriaeth i’w barn. A gytunwch fod angen adolygu’r broses cynllunio ac, fel rhan o’r adolygiad hwnnw, a fyddwch cystal â sicrhau bod barn cynghorau cymuned yn cael ei hystyried? A ydych hefyd yn fodlon ystyried ffyrdd i roi hawl i grwpiau cymunedol lleol ac unigolion gyflwyno eu safbwynt gerbron pwyllgorau cynllunio, un ai ganddynt hwy eu hunain neu drwy gefnogwr?

Alun Michael The First Secretary spoken in English p. 16

Alun Michael Y Prif Ysgrifennydd siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 16

There are formal processes that allow for comments to be made. There are two elements to this. One is the development of local plans and consultation about how each part of Wales sees its future developing. It is important that consultation is meaningful at that stage. It is possible to have a formal consultation that does not engage people. The second aspect is dealing with a specific application. It is important to deal with those matters sensitively and well. Sometimes temperatures run so high that it is difficult, even with the best will in the world, to achieve that. However, the general principle that there should be effective, meaningful consultation in which both sides listen to each other is absolutely right.

Ceir prosesau ffurfiol sy’n caniatáu cyflwyno sylwadau. Mae dwy elfen yn hynny. Un ohonynt yw datblygu cynlluniau lleol ac ymgynghori ynghylch y modd y mae pob rhan o Gymru yn gweld ei dyfodol yn datblygu. Mae’n bwysig bod yr ymgynghori’n ystyrlon yn y cyfnod hwnnw. Fe ellir cael ymgynghori ffurfiol nad yw’n cysylltu â phobl. Yr ail agwedd yw ymdrin â chais penodol. Mae’n bwysig ymdrin yn sensitif ac yn dda â’r materion hynny. Weithiau bydd gwres y teimladau mor uchel fel ei bod yn anodd cyflawni hynny, hyd yn oed gyda phob ewyllys da yn y byd. Fodd bynnag, mae’r egwyddor gyffredinol y dylid cael ymgynghori effeithiol, ystyrlon lle y bydd y ddwy ochr yn gwrando ar ei gilydd yn gwbl gywir.

John Griffiths spoken in English p. 16

John Griffiths siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 16

Can we have a review of planning regulations to reconsider holding developers to the terms of their original application? That would ensure that local residents, local authorities and everybody concerned could be more confident that if planning permission were granted for particular proposals the application’s terms would be abided by when the eventual development went ahead.

A oes modd inni gael adolygiad o’r rheoliadau cynllunio er mwyn ailystyried dal datblygwyr at y telerau yn eu cais gwreiddiol? Byddai hynny’n sicrhau y gallai trigolion lleol, awdurdodau lleol a phawb dan sylw deimlo’n fwy hyderus, pe bai caniatâd cynllunio wedi ei roi ar gyfer cynlluniau penodol, y byddai telerau’r cais yn cael eu dilyn pan fyddai’r datblygiad yn mynd ymlaen yn y pen draw.

Alun Michael The First Secretary spoken in English p. 16

Alun Michael Y Prif Ysgrifennydd siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 16

That is a matter for my colleague Peter Law and the Committee dealing with those issues. I agree that these matters need to be kept under review because sometimes things can become a little relaxed and need to be picked up. In general, it is expected that where planning permission is granted in a specific form, it should be kept to. There is legislation that can support that. I accept that the matter should be kept under review.

Mae hynny’n fater i’m cyd-weithiwr Peter Law a’r Pwyllgor sy’n ymdrin â’r materion hynny. Cytunaf fod angen adolygu’r materion hyn o hyd am fod pethau weithiau’n gallu mynd yn rhy llac fel bod angen rhoi sylw iddynt. Yn gyffredinol, pan roddir caniatâd cynllunio ar ffurf benodol, mae disgwyl y bydd hynny’n cael ei ddilyn. Ceir deddfwriaeth sy’n gallu ategu hynny. Derbyniaf fod angen cadw’r mater dan sylw bob amser.

Problemau Iechyd

Health Problems

Q3 Huw Lewis spoken in English p. 17

C3 Huw Lewis siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 17

What plans does the First Secretary have to co-ordinate a strategy to address health problems in and across the Valleys, especially in respect of problems that are directly linked to socio-economic disadvantage? (OAQ395VB)

Pa gynlluniau sydd gan y Prif Ysgrifennydd i gydlynu strategaeth i fynd i’r afael â phroblemau iechyd ar hyd ac ar led y Cymoedd, yn enwedig mewn perthynas â’r problemau sy’n uniongyrchol gysylltiedig ag amddifadedd economaidd a chymdeithasol? (OAQ395VB)

Alun Michael The First Secretary spoken in English p. 17

Alun Michael Y Prif Ysgrifennydd siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 17

I am pleased that you connect socio-economic disadvantage and health issues. The strategy to address this problem is contained in ‘Better Health, Better Wales: Strategic Framework’, which followed the Green Paper launched in May 1998. There are several documents inherited by the Assembly that would repay study during the summer. I appreciate that Members have not had the chance to read them all. I would particularly recommend this one for study by Assembly Members. Wide-ranging consultation showed strong support for making health protection and improvement a key principle of public services. The Government’s agenda for tackling poor health by tackling the economic and social factors which influence health and well-being was widely welcomed.

Yr wyf yn falch eich bod yn cysylltu amddifadedd economaidd a chymdeithasol â materion iechyd. Fe geir y strategaeth i ymdrin â’r broblem hon yn ‘Gwell Iechyd, Gwell Cymru: Fframwaith Strategol’, a ddilynodd y Papur Gwyrdd a lansiwyd ym Mai 1998. Mae sawl dogfen a etifeddwyd gan y Cynulliad y byddai’n talu i’w hastudio dros yr haf. Yr wyf yn sylweddoli nad yw’r Aelodau wedi cael cyfle i ddarllen pob un. Byddwn yn cymeradwyo hon yn arbennig i’w hastudio gan Aelodau’r Cynulliad. Drwy’r ymgynghori eang fe welwyd bod cefnogaeth gref dros wneud diogelu a gwella iechyd yn egwyddor allweddol mewn gwasanaethau cyhoeddus. Yr oedd croeso cyffredinol i agenda’r Llywodraeth i ymdrin â iechyd gwael drwy fynd i’r afael â’r ffactorau economaidd a chymdeithasol sy’n dylanwadu ar iechyd a lles.

Huw Lewis spoken in English p. 17

Huw Lewis siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 17

Given the self-evident inequalities in health faced by the people of Merthyr Tydfil and Rhymney, will the First Secretary agree that the protection, expansion and improvement of existing health service provision in that district is a top priority?

O ystyried yr anghydraddoldebau iechyd amlwg a wynebir gan bobl Merthyr Tudful a Rhymni, a yw’r Prif Ysgrifennydd yn fodlon cytuno bod diogelu, ehangu a gwella darpariaeth bresennol y gwasanaeth iechyd yn yr ardal honno yn flaenoriaeth bennaf?

Alun Michael The First Secretary spoken in English p. 17

Alun Michael Y Prif Ysgrifennydd siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 17

Yes. Ensuring the right health provision is a top priority, particularly in districts that have suffered in the past. However, as people know, we need to look at the efficient delivery of health services in every part of Wales and ensure that we get value for money through an improved system and service. That is the reason for the stock-take. I am certain that every Member will sympathise with your point about the need to preserve and improve the quality of the service.

Ydwyf. Mae sicrhau’r ddarpariaeth iechyd briodol yn flaenoriaeth bennaf, yn enwedig mewn ardaloedd a ddioddefodd yn y gorffennol. Fodd bynnag, fel y gwyddys, mae angen inni ystyried y ddarpariaeth effeithlon o wasanaethau iechyd ym mhob rhan o Gymru a sicrhau y cawn werth am arian drwy system a gwasanaeth gwell. Dyna’r rheswm dros y cyfrif stoc. Yr wyf yn sicr y bydd pob Aelod yn cydymdeimlo â’ch pwynt am yr angen i gadw a gwella ansawdd y gwasanaeth.

Helen Mary Jones spoken in English p. 18

Helen Mary Jones siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 18

How does the Government propose to ensure that communities that suffer similar health problems to those in the Valleys, but which are included in predominantly rural health authority areas, such as Llanelli and the Gwendraeth valley, will benefit from both the measures that you have outlined and those in the documents? I have had the opportunity to read them.

Sut y mae’r Llywodraeth yn bwriadu sicrhau y bydd cymunedau sy’n dioddef problemau iechyd tebyg i’r rhai yn y Cymoedd, ond a gynhwysir mewn ardaloedd awdurdod iechyd sydd yn wledig gan mwyaf, fel Llanelli a Chwm Gwendraeth, yn elwa o’r mesurau a amlinellwyd gennych a’r rhai yn y dogfennau? Yr wyf wedi cael cyfle i’w darllen.

Alun Michael The First Secretary spoken in English p. 18

Alun Michael Y Prif Ysgrifennydd siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 18

You make a good point. In any rural area, there will be concentrations of health issues that arise from old heavy industries and from poverty and inequality. We need to ensure that we do not generalise to the point that we overlook that. I accept your point. Over the coming months, we have the great challenge of putting the national health service in Wales back on the rails. You are aware of the problems in Dyfed Powys; there are also problems in other parts of Wales. I look forward to the results of the stock-take because that will provide the basis on which the Assembly can have a proper and informed debate on the health service in Wales, perhaps for the first time. I am convinced from the direction of some of our more important debates that this Assembly will make a significant contribution to ensuring the right policies for the future.

Yr ydych yn gwneud pwynt da. Mewn unrhyw ardal wledig, fe geir crynoadau o faterion iechyd sy’n deillio o hen ddiwydiannau trwm ac o dlodi ac anghydraddoldeb. Rhaid inni sicrhau na fyddwn yn cyffredinoli cymaint nes anghofio hynny. Yr wyf yn derbyn eich pwynt. Dros y misoedd sydd i ddod, mae’r sialens fawr gennym o roi’r gwasanaeth iechyd gwladol yng Nghymru yn ôl ar y cledrau. Yr ydych yn ymwybodol o’r problemau yn Nyfed Powys; fe geir problemau hefyd mewn rhannau eraill o Gymru. Edrychaf ymlaen at ganlyniadau’r cyfrif stoc oherwydd bydd hynny’n darparu’r sylfaen ar gyfer dadl briodol a chytbwys gan y Cynulliad ar y gwasanaeth iechyd yng Nghymru, efallai am y tro cyntaf. Yr wyf yn argyhoeddedig o gyfeiriad rhai o’n dadleuon pwysicaf y bydd y Cynulliad yn cyfrannu’n sylweddol at sicrhau’r polisïau cywir i’r dyfodol.

Terfynau Gwario i Awdurdodau Lleol

Spending Limits for Local Authorities

Q4 Pauline Jarman spoken in English p. 18

C4 Pauline Jarman siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 18

What plans are there to allow additional spending limits for local authorities to provide match funding for EU grants? (OAQ303VB) [R]

Pa gynlluniau sydd ar gael i ganiatáu terfynau gwario ychwanegol i’r awdurdodau lleol i ddarparu arian cyfatebol ar gyfer grantiau’r UE? (OAQ303VB) [R]

Alun Michael The First Secretary spoken in English p. 18

Alun Michael Y Prif Ysgrifennydd siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 18

The decisions on future funding and spending limits for local authorities for match funding for EU grants will be a matter for the Assembly as part of the overall budget setting process. I believe most Members have had the chance of an explanation in the last fortnight.

Bydd y penderfyniadau ar ariannu a therfynau gwario i awdurdodau lleol yn y dyfodol ar gyfer arian cyfatebol i grantiau’r UE yn fater i’r Cynulliad fel rhan o’r broses gyffredinol o bennu’r gyllideb. Credaf fod y rhan fwyaf o’r Aelodau wedi cael cyfle i dderbyn eglurhad yn y pythefnos diwethaf.

Pauline Jarman spoken in English p. 19

Pauline Jarman siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 19

You will recall the famous battle over additionality in the Rechar programme, after which the British Government made an agreement in 1992. Would not that agreement be breached if the Assembly, and the UK Government in particular, did not have regard to its commitment to provide additionality? Clever top-slicing arrangements will not necessarily get round the additionality requirements, especially if they lead to big cuts in spending to make way for EU finance projects. It is important that we get a commitment on additionality and match funding, to enable us to maximise our drawing down of these grants and to plan for them.

Byddwch yn cofio’r frwydr enwog ynghylch ychwanegoldeb yn rhaglen Rechar, y gwnaeth Llywodraeth Prydain gytundeb yn ei sgil yn 1992. Oni fyddai’n groes i’r cytundeb hwnnw pe na bai’r Cynulliad, a Llywodraeth y DU yn arbennig, yn rhoi ystyriaeth i’w hymrwymiad i ddarparu ychwanegoldeb? Ni fydd trefniadau tafell-uchaf clyfar o reidrwydd yn osgoi’r gofynion am ychwanegoldeb, yn enwedig os byddant yn arwain at doriadau mawr ar wario er mwyn agor y ffordd i brojectau a ariannir gan yr UE. Mae’n bwysig inni gael ymrwymiad ar ychwanegoldeb ac arian cyfatebol, fel y gallwn ymestyn am y nifer fwyaf o’r grantiau hynny a chynllunio ar eu cyfer.

Alun Michael The First Secretary spoken in English p. 19

Alun Michael Y Prif Ysgrifennydd siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 19

You are right that we must satisfy the requirements for additionality. The UK Government has the responsibility of fulfilling those requirements so that we can draw down the monies for Objective 1 and other structural funds and benefit from what we have managed to earn for Wales by fighting for Objective 1 status.

Yr ydych yn gywir wrth ddweud bod rhaid inni gyflawni’r gofynion am ychwanegoldeb. Mae cyfrifoldeb ar Lywodraeth y DU i gyflawni’r gofynion hynny fel y gallwn ymestyn am yr arian ar gyfer Amcan 1 a chronfeydd strwythurol eraill ac elwa o’r hyn yr ydym wedi gallu ei ennill i Gymru drwy ymladd am statws Amcan 1.

However, as I have explained on many occasions, you cannot jump ahead of the process for reaching the public spending arrangements and meeting the additionality requirements. You should put faith in the fact that there is a process to take care of these requirements and that both the Prime Minister and the Chancellor of the Exchequer have made it clear that the UK Government will not let Wales down in getting the best deal, which means allowing us to draw on those funds.

Fodd bynnag, fel yr eglurais ar lawer achlysur, ni allwch neidio o flaen y broses er mwyn cyrraedd y trefniadau gwariant cyhoeddus a chyflawni’r gofynion am ychwanegoldeb. Dylech ymddiried yn y ffaith bod proses ar gael i ofalu am y gofynion hynny a bod y Prif Weinidog a Changhellor y Trysorlys wedi rhoi ar ddeall na fydd Llywodraeth y DU yn siomi Cymru wrth sicrhau’r fargen orau, sy’n golygu caniatáu inni ddefnyddio’r cronfeydd hynny.

Dafydd Wigley siaradwyd yn Gymraeg t. 19

Dafydd Wigley spoken in Welsh p. 19

A yw’r Prif Ysgrifennydd yn derbyn ei bod yn hanfodol ar gyfer llywodraeth leol, ein llywodraeth ni ar lefel genedlaethol Gymreig ac ar gyfer y sector preifat bod pobl yn gwybod ymlaen llaw beth fydd y ddarpariaeth ariannol er mwyn gallu cynllunio? A yw’n derbyn er mwyn cael y budd mwyaf o’r cronfeydd strwythurol Ewropeaidd, ei bod yn hanfodol fod yr arian yn arian ychwanegol, a’i bod yn hanfodol fod arian cyfatebol ar gael sydd hefyd yn ychwanegol i’r cronfeydd sydd eisoes yma ar gyfer gwasanaethau eraill?

Does the First Secretary accept that it is essential for local government, our national Government of Wales and the private sector that people know before-hand what the financial arrangements will be so that they can plan ahead? Does he accept that to ensure the best advantage from European structural funds it is essential that the money is additional money, and that there is match funding available that is also additional to the funds already here for other services?

A yw’n sylweddoli, pe bai’r fformiwla sydd wedi gweithredu dros y saith mlynedd diwethaf yn parhau yn y dyfodol, mai mantais o £400 miliwn yn unig y byddem yn ei chael o’r £1.6 biliwn a fydd yn dod o’r cronfeydd strwythurol i Gymru? Felly, mae’n rhaid cael ymrwymiad y bydd y gyfundrefn hon yn newid os ydym yn dymuno manteisio’n llawn ar yr arian pwysig hwn.

Does he realise that if the formula that has existed over the past seven years continued in future, we would only get the benefit of £400 million of the £1.6 billion that will come from the structural funds to Wales? We have to have a commitment that this system will change if we are to fully benefit from this important money.

Alun Michael Y Prif Ysgrifennydd siaradwyd yn Gymraeg ac yn Saesneg t. 20

Alun Michael The First Secretary spoken in Welsh and English p. 20

Y mae’n siom fod Dafydd yn parhau i godi amheuon ynglŷn â’r sefyllfa. Yr wyf wedi cadarnhau fwy nag unwaith fod proses i fynd drwyddi i sicrhau bod yr arian yn dod i’r Cynulliad, yn yr un modd ag adrannau eraill o’r Llywodraeth dros y blynyddoedd nesaf.

in Welsh It is disappointing that Dafydd continues to cast doubt on the situation. I have confirmed more than once that there is a process to go through to ensure that the money comes to the Assembly, as with other departments of Government in the ensuing years.

I have underlined that the comprehensive spending review looked across Government at the requirements of all departments. The Assembly benefits from and takes forward the finances available to the Welsh Office as a result of the review. In future, issues like additionality requirements and match funding will have to be dealt with and there is a process to do that. Dafydd is asking for the conclusion of the process before it has begun. That is not the way it works.

yn Saesneg Yr wyf wedi pwysleisio bod yr adolygiad cynhwysfawr o wariant yn edrych ar draws y Llywodraeth ar ofynion yr holl adrannau. Bydd y Cynulliad yn elwa ar yr arian oedd ar gael i’r Swyddfa Gymreig o ganlyniad i’r adolygiad ac yn mynd â hynny ymlaen. Yn y dyfodol, bydd raid ymdrin â materion fel gofynion am ychwanegoldeb ac arian cyfatebol ac mae proses ar gael i wneud hynny. Mae Dafydd yn holi ynghylch canlyniad y broses cyn iddi ddechrau. Nid felly y mae’n gweithio.

Nick Bourne spoken in English p. 20

Nick Bourne siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 20

Given what the First Secretary has just said about the process which we keep hearing about, and the lack of progress on it and of any clear commitment by the Government to find new money for match funds other than the rather threadbare mantra that the Prime Minister will not let Wales down—could he say where he expects the match funds to come from so that project officers can prepare their programmes to take advantage of the EU funds which will otherwise be lost to Wales?

O dderbyn yr hyn y mae’r Prif Ysgrifennydd newydd ei ddweud am y broses yr ydym yn clywed amdani o hyd, a’r diffyg cynnydd ynghylch hynny ac unrhyw ymrwymiad pendant gan y Llywodraeth i ganfod arian cyfatebol newydd heblaw am y mantra treuliedig braidd na fydd y Prif Weinidog yn siomi Cymru—a oes modd iddo ddweud o ble y mae’n disgwyl y daw’r arian cyfatebol fel y gall swyddogion projectau baratoi eu rhaglenni er mwyn manteisio ar y cyllid Ewropeaidd y gallai Cymru ei golli fel arall?

Alun Michael The First Secretary spoken in English p. 20

Alun Michael Y Prif Ysgrifennydd siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 20

The point must be repeated because it does not seem to have been understood. It was well understood by the Conservative spokesman in the House of Commons, who—[Interruption.] I am giving you information that I think might help you.

Rhaid ailadrodd y pwynt oherwydd nid yw’n ymddangos ei fod wedi ei ddeall. Fe’i deallwyd yn iawn gan y llefarydd Ceidwadol yn Nhŷ’r Cyffredin, a—[Torri ar draws.] Yr wyf yn ceisio rhoi gwybodaeth y tybiaf y gallai fod o gymorth i chi.

The shadow spokesman on Welsh affairs responded after Dafydd asked these very questions several months ago, by saying, ‘Yes, of course there is a process to go through’. The previous Conservative Government had to go through a process, as does this Government. We all know that, so let us get on to the serious issues.

Fe atebodd llefarydd yr Wrthblaid ar faterion Cymreig, wedi i Dafydd ofyn yr union gwestiynau hyn rai misoedd yn ôl, drwy ddweud, ‘Ie, wrth gwrs bod proses y mae’n rhaid ei dilyn’. Bu’n rhaid i’r Llywodraeth Geidwadol flaenorol ddilyn proses, yn yr un modd â’r Llywodraeth hon. Yr ydym oll yn gwybod hynny, felly gadewch inni ddod at y materion pwysig.

On the question of match funding, there is nothing new in this. Match funding can come from a variety of different sources such as local government, the voluntary sector, the European Investment Bank and the private sector. Of course, we must ensure that the requirements of match funding are considered when decisions are taken about public expenditure. Additionality and match funding are two quite different issues. Both are important to ensure that we can use Objective 1 status to the utmost. The Labour Government, against the cynicism of others, won that opportunity. I am not sure whether crates of champagne have been delivered yet, but may I remind Dafydd of undertakings given at that time. We won Objective 1 status, which will make a great difference to Wales. It is a great opportunity and I hope that Members will move on from the unproductive wishing to know the outcome of a process that has not started yet to thinking about how we can make it work.

Ynglŷn â chwestiwn arian cyfatebol, nid oes dim yn newydd yn hyn. Gall arian cyfatebol ddod o amryw o ffynonellau gwahanol fel llywodraeth leol, y sector gwirfoddol, Banc Buddsoddi Ewrop a’r sector preifat. Wrth gwrs, rhaid inni sicrhau bod y gofynion am arian cyfatebol yn cael eu hystyried wrth benderfynu ar wariant cyhoeddus. Mae ychwanegoldeb ac arian cyfatebol yn ddau fater cwbl wahanol. Mae’r ddau’n bwysig er mwyn sicrhau y gallwn ddefnyddio statws Amcan 1 i’r eithaf. Mae’r Llywodraeth Lafur, er gwaethaf sinigiaeth rhai eraill, wedi ennill y cyfle hwnnw. Nid wyf yn sicr a yw cratiau o siampaen wedi eu danfon eto, ond hoffwn atgoffa Dafydd am yr ymrwymiadau a roddwyd ar y pryd. Bu inni ennill statws Amcan 1, a fydd yn gwneud gwahaniaeth mawr i Gymru. Mae’n gyfle mawr, a gobeithio y bydd yr Aelodau’n ymadael â’r dymuniad diffrwyth i wybod canlyniad proses nad yw wedi dechrau eto ac yn dechrau meddwl ynghylch sut y gallwn ei roi ar waith.

Michael German spoken in English p. 21

Michael German siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 21

In view of the strong determining role of the Westminster Cabinet and the deciding influence it will have in matters of additionality and match funding for Wales, what steps have you taken to ensure that this matter is being raised in Cabinet now, has been raised in Cabinet in the past and will be raised in Cabinet in the future? Can the Assembly have a guarantee and an assurance from you that there will be a strong voice for Wales in the Westminster Cabinet in the months to come?

Yng ngolwg rôl penderfynu bwysig Cabinet San Steffan a’r dylanwad drwy benderfynu a gaiff mewn materion sy’n ymwneud ag ychwanegoldeb ac arian cyfatebol i Gymru, pa gamau yr ydych wedi eu cymryd i sicrhau y caiff y mater hwn ei godi yn y Cabinet yn awr, ei fod wedi ei godi yn y Cabinet yn y gorffennol ac y caiff ei godi yn y Cabinet yn y dyfodol? A oes modd i’r Cynulliad gael gwarant a sicrwydd gennych y bydd llais cryf dros Gymru yng Nghabinet San Steffan yn y misoedd i ddod?

Alun Michael The First Secretary spoken in English p. 21

Alun Michael Y Prif Ysgrifennydd siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 21

I assure you that I have done everything to make sure that the new situation that arises from the size of the Objective 1 area in Wales, which is a unique first for any part of the United Kingdom, is fully understood by colleagues. It will be taken into account in the process I referred to. As long as I am a Member of the Cabinet, Wales will have the strongest possible voice and I am certain that whatever decision is taken, Wales will have the strongest possible voice after I stand down from that Cabinet. This Assembly will have a strong voice in Whitehall and Westminster, and as First Secretary, I will ensure that it happens. Those processes are very important indeed.

Yr wyf yn eich sicrhau fy mod wedi gwneud popeth i sicrhau bod fy nghyd-weithwyr yn llwyr ddeall y sefyllfa newydd sy’n codi oherwydd maint yr ardal Amcan 1 yng Nghymru, sydd yn gamp gyntaf unigryw i unrhyw ran o’r Deyrnas Unedig. Fe’i cymerir i ystyriaeth yn y broses y cyfeiriais ati. Cyhyd ag y byddaf yn Aelod o’r Cabinet, bydd gan Gymru’r llais cryfaf posibl ac yr wyf yn sicr, pa bynnag benderfyniad a wneir, y bydd gan Gymru’r llais cryfaf posibl wedi imi adael y Cabinet hwnnw. Bydd gan y Cynulliad lais cryf yn Whitehall ac yn San Steffan, ac fel Prif Ysgrifennydd, byddaf yn sicrhau bod hynny’n digwydd. Mae’r prosesau hynny’n wirioneddol bwysig.

Cymorth i Fusnesau Cynhenid (Cwm Cynon)

Support for Indigenous Business (Cynon Valley)

Q5 Christine Chapman spoken in English p. 22

C5 Christine Chapman siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 22

What measures is the First Secretary undertaking to provide continuing support for indigenous business in the Cynon Valley? (OAQ294JS)

Pa fesurau sydd ar y gweill gan y Prif Ysgrifennydd i roi cymorth parhaus i fusnesau cynhenid yng Nghwm Cynon? (OAQ294JS)

Alun Michael The First Secretary spoken in English p. 22

Alun Michael Y Prif Ysgrifennydd siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 22

‘Pathway to Prosperity’ sets out a wide range of action to improve support to small firms and promote indigenous business development in the Valleys area and in other parts of Wales. It is backed by significant extra money this year, and improved co-ordination of business support. Again, Objective 1 status will provide a significant boost to regeneration and enterprise support measures within the Valleys.

Mae’r ‘Ffordd i Ffyniant’ yn cyflwyno amrediad eang o gamau i wella’r gefnogaeth i fusnesau bychain a hybu datblygiad busnesau cynhenid yn ardal y Cymoedd ac mewn rhannau eraill o Gymru. Fe gefnogir hynny ag arian ychwanegol sylweddol eleni, a gwell cydlynu ar gefnogaeth i fusnesau. Unwaith eto, bydd statws Amcan 1 yn rhoi hwb sylweddol i’r mesurau i adfywio a chynnal mentrau yn y Cymoedd.

Christine Chapman spoken in English p. 22

Christine Chapman siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 22

That is encouraging. However, given that the number of the VAT registered enterprises in Rhondda Cynon Taff has remained fairly static over the last three years according to the Welsh Office statistics, what policies do you intend to introduce in this Assembly to promote an environment of business growth and entrepreneurship in areas such as the Cynon Valley to allow an expansion of this sector, which will go some way to helping eradicate the problem of social exclusion in the Valleys—an aim which we have already set ourselves to achieve?

Mae hynny’n galonogol. Fodd bynnag, o ystyried bod nifer y mentrau a gofrestrwyd ar gyfer TAW yn Rhondda Cynon Taf wedi aros yn ei hunfan bron dros y tair blynedd diwethaf yn ôl ystadegau’r Swyddfa Gymreig, pa bolisïau yr ydych yn bwriadu eu cyflwyno yn y Cynulliad hwn i hybu amgylchedd ar gyfer twf busnesau ac entrepreneuriaeth mewn ardaloedd fel Cwm Cynon er mwyn caniatáu i’r sector hwn ehangu, gan roi rhywfaint o gymorth i ddileu problem dieithrwch cymdeithasol yn y Cymoedd—nod yr ydym eisoes wedi ei gosod i ni’n hunain?

Alun Michael The First Secretary spoken in English p. 23

Alun Michael Y Prif Ysgrifennydd siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 23

Business Connect, South East Wales TEC and the WDA have appointed staff in each of the Valleys unitary authorities to help focus support on the development of indigenous businesses. I agree that there is a need for that focus, and £83 million will be made available to back business development in Wales in the current financial year. Within that sum, the small business enterprise and support programme is boosted by 18 per cent to £13 million, which will help up to 6,000 firms this year. That will benefit businesses in the Cynon Valley and other parts of the Valleys.

Mae Cyswllt Busnes, CHM De Ddwyrain Cymru a’r WDA wedi penodi staff ym mhob un o awdurdodau unedol y Cymoedd i helpu i gyfeirio’r gefnogaeth at ddatblygu busnesau cynhenid. Cytunaf fod angen y ffocws hwnnw, a bydd £83 miliwn ar gael i gefnogi datblygiad busnesau yng Nghymru yn y flwyddyn ariannol gyfredol. O fewn y swm hwnnw, mae hwb o 18 y cant at £13 miliwn i’r rhaglen menter a chefnogaeth i fusnesau bach, a fydd yn helpu hyd at 6,000 o fusnesau eleni. Bydd hanny o fantais i fusnesau yng Nghwm Cynon a rhannau eraill o’r Cymoedd.

Phil Williams spoken in English p. 23

Phil Williams siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 23

Are you aware that a statement in the Federation of Small Businesses’ manifesto urges the Assembly to give priority to establishing a development bank for Wales, which will concentrate on funding indigenous businesses? Do you have any plans for such a bank in the policy for reviving the economy of Wales and the Valleys?

A ydych yn ymwybodol bod datganiad ym maniffesto Ffederasiwn y Busnesau Bychain yn annog y Cynulliad i roi blaenoriaeth i sefydlu banc datblygu i Gymru, a fydd yn canolbwyntio ar ariannu busnesau cynhenid? A oes gennych unrhyw gynlluniau ar gyfer banc o’r fath yn y polisi i adfywio economi Cymru a’r Cymoedd?

Alun Michael The First Secretary spoken in English p. 23

Alun Michael Y Prif Ysgrifennydd siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 23

I am surprised that Phil did not refer to the Labour Party’s manifesto in passing. Attracting investment and ensuring availability of money to support enterprise, particularly, at the small end is crucial. It is something that we wish to pursue and I hope the Assembly will support us.

Yr wyf yn synnu nad oedd Phil wedi cyfeirio at faniffesto’r Blaid Lafur wrth fynd heibio. Mae denu buddsoddiad a sicrhau bod arian ar gael i gefnogi mentrau, yn enwedig rhai bychain, yn hollbwysig. Mae’n rhywbeth yr ydym yn dymuno ei ddilyn a gobeithio y bydd y Cynulliad yn ein cefnogi.

Datganiad Busnes

Business Statement

Andrew Davies spoken in English p. 23

Andrew Davies siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 23

Details of business for the next three weeks and supporting papers are on the Chamberweb. I draw your attention to the election of the Members and Chair of the House Committee on Tuesday, 20 July. In Business Committee this morning, we discussed the motion to note the draft memorandum of understanding and overarching concordats, which will be deferred until the autumn. After Plenary today, I will arrange for a copy of the statement to be placed on the intranet and internet.

Mae manylion y busnes ar gyfer y tair wythnos nesaf a’r dogfennau ategol ar We’r Siambr. Yr wyf yn tynnu’ch sylw at etholiad Aelodau a Chadeirydd Pwyllgor y Tŷ ddydd Mawrth, 20 Gorffennaf. Yn y Pwyllgor Busnes fore heddiw, bu inni drafod y cynnig i nodi’r drafft o’r memorandwm cyd-ddealltwriaeth a’r concordatiau trosfwaol, a gaiff ei ohirio tan yr hydref. Ar ôl y Sesiwn Llawn heddiw, byddaf yn trefnu i roi copi o’r datganiad ar y fewnrwyd a’r rhyngrwyd.

Dafydd Elis-Thomas The Presiding Officer spoken in English p. 24

Dafydd Elis-Thomas Y Llywydd siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 24

Is the Business Statement agreed?

A gytunir â’r Datganiad Busnes?

As there are 10 Members objecting to it, I will call on the Business Secretary to propose the statement be adopted. I will then call one Member from each group to respond, according to the Standing Order, before calling a vote.

Gan fod 10 o Aelodau’n ei wrthwynebu, galwaf ar y Trefnydd i gynnig derbyn y datganiad. Wedyn byddaf yn galw ar un Aelod o bob grŵp i ymateb, yn unol â’r Rheolau Sefydlog, cyn galw pleidlais.

Andrew Davies spoken in English p. 24

Andrew Davies siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 24

I propose that my business statement be adopted.

Yr wyf yn cynnig y bydd fy natganiad yn cael ei dderbyn.

Ieuan Wyn Jones siaradwyd yn Gymraeg t. 24

Ieuan Wyn Jones spoken in Welsh p. 24

Diolch Dafydd. Rhoddais rybudd blaenorol ichi o’r pwynt yr wyf yn dymuno’i godi ar y datganiad busnes. Dywedais hefyd wrth y Trefnydd a threfnyddion busnes y ddwy blaid arall fy mod yn bwriadu gwneud hyn.

Thank you Dafydd. I gave you previous notice of the point that I wish to raise on the business statement. I also informed the Business Secretary and the business secretaries of the other two parties that I intended to do so.

Mae gennyf bryder ynghylch y ffordd yr ydym yn trin y dadleuon byr. Mae gennym ddadl y prynhawn hwn ar brofion llygaid. Gan fod y dadleuon byr yn rhoi cyfle i Aelodau y tu allan i’r Cabinet godi pynciau lleol neu ehangach, ni ddylai’r dadleuon hyn gael eu defnyddio i drafod materion polisi, ac yn aml iawn, materion polisi dadleuol fel y gwelsom yn ystod yr wythnosau diwethaf. Y mae nifer o’r materion hyn nid yn unig yn faterion polisi ond yn faterion â goblygiadau cyllidol. Dylai Pwyllgorau’r Cynulliad ystyried y materion hyn a defnyddio eu hamser i drafod materion cyllid.

I am concerned about the way the short debates are conducted. We have one this afternoon on eye tests. Since the short debates give Members outside the Cabinet the opportunity to raise local or wider subjects, these debates should not be used to discuss policy matters, which are often contentious policy matters as we have seen during the last few weeks. A number of these matters are not only matters of policy but matters with budgetary implications. The Assembly Committees should consider these matters and use their time to discuss budgetary issues.

Gan mai dadleuon byr ydynt, nid oes rhaid i’r person sydd yn cynnig y ddadl dderbyn unrhyw ymyrraeth na sylw gan unrhyw Aelod arall. Ffars lwyr yw gadael i Aelodau o bleidiau eraill gael 30 eiliad neu funud i ymateb i ddadl sydd o’r pwys mwyaf o safbwynt polisi. Er enghraifft, tynnwyd cynnig ar y gwaharddiad ar gig eidion ar yr asgwrn yn ôl. Gwelsom mai mater i’r Pwyllgor Amaethyddiaeth a Datblygu Gwledig oedd hwnnw ac nid i ddadl hanner awr.

Since they are short debates, the person proposing the debate does not have to accept any intervention or comment from another Member. It is a complete farce to allow Members from other parties 30 seconds or a minute to answer a debate that is very important from a policy point of view. For example, a proposal on beef on the bone ban was withdrawn. We saw that it was a matter for the Agriculture and Rural Development Committee and not for a half-hour debate.

Bu hefyd ddadl ar GMOs a heddiw ystyriwn brofion ar lygaid. Nid dyna oedd bwriad y dadleuon byr ac awgrymaf ein bod yn newid y Rheolau Sefydlog. Cyferiaf yn benodol at baragraffau 6.35 a 6.36 a fyddai’n cyfyngu’r hawl i gynnig pwnc yn unig, yn hytrach na chynnig ar gyfer dadl. Byddai hynny’n osgoi’r angen i bleidleisio ar fater a ddylai fod yn gwestiwn o godi pwnc yn unig. Byddwn yn sicrhau mai pwrpas y ddadl fer, a gynigiwyd yn wreiddiol gan Grŵp Ymgynghorol y Cynulliad Cenedlaethol, oedd codi pwnc i sylw’r Cynulliad neu’r Llywodraeth.

There was also a debate on GMOs and today we will consider eye tests. That was not the intention of the short debates and I suggest we amend the Standing Orders. I refer, in particular, to paragraphs 6.35 and 6.36, which would limit the right solely to propose a subject, rather than a motion for debate. That would obviate the need to vote on an issue that should only be a matter of raising a subject. We would then ensure that the short debate’s purpose, originally proposed by the National Assembly Advisory Group, was to bring a subject to the attention of the Assembly or Government.

Gofynnaf yn ffurfiol i’r Trefnydd Busnes yn ffurfiol sicrhau bod y mater hwn yn cael ei drafod yn y Pwyllgor Busnes gyda’r bwriad o edrych ar newidiadau i’r Rheolau Sefydlog. Os yw’n rhoi’r addewid hwn, byddwn ninnau fel Plaid yn tynnu ein gwrthwynebiad i’r datganiad busnes yn ôl. Yn y cyfamser, yr wyf yn galw ar gynrychiolwyr y pleidiau eraill yn wirfoddol i ddewis pwnc yn hytrach na chynnig ar gyfer dadleuon byr. Gwnaf ddatganiad cyhoeddus y bydd grŵp Plaid Cymru yn ymatal mewn unrhyw ddadleuon byr nes bydd cytundeb ar y mater. Gofynnaf felly am ymateb y Trefnydd Busnes i’r datganiad hwn. Hoffwn ddatgan, er fy mod yn cytuno ag egwyddor cynnig Jenny Randerson heddiw ar brofion llygaid, bydd Plaid Cymru yn ymatal nes bydd cytundeb yn cael ei gynnig.

I formally ask the Business Secretary formally to ensure that this matter is discussed in the Business Committee with the intention of considering amendments in the Standing Orders. If he makes that commitment, we, as a Party, will withdraw our objection to the business statement. In the meantime, I call on representatives of the other parties voluntarily to select a subject rather than a proposal for short debates. I hereby make a public statement that the Plaid Cymru group will abstain in any short debate until there is agreement on this matter. I therefore ask the Business Secretary for a response to this statement. I wish to state that, although I agree with the principle of Jenny Randerson’s proposal on eye tests, Plaid Cymru will abstain until an agreement is put forward.

David Davies spoken in English p. 25

David Davies siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 25

On behalf of the Conservative group, I disagree with what the representative for Plaid Cymru said. So far, the short debates have been the most interesting and lively parts of the Assembly debates, covering a variety of topics. We should take every opportunity to discuss a wide range of issues. However, we do not feel that we can support the Government of Wales, because there is nothing in the business statement about a proper debate on GMOs, which clearly represent the Assembly’s mood at the moment. I will, therefore, abstain.

Ar ran y grŵp Ceidwadol, yr wyf yn anghytuno â’r hyn a ddywedodd cynrychiolydd Plaid Cymru. Hyd yn hyn, y dadleuon byr yw’r rhannau mwyaf diddorol a bywiog o ddadleuon y Cynulliad, ac maent wedi cwmpasu amrywiaeth o bynciau. Dylem fanteisio ar bob cyfle i drafod amrediad eang o faterion. Fodd bynnag, nid ydym yn teimlo y gallwn gefnogi Llywodraeth Cymru, oherwydd nid oes dim yn y Datganiad Busnes am ddadl iawn ar organebau a addaswyd yn enetig, sydd yn amlwg yn adlewyrchu teimlad y Cynulliad ar y funud. Felly, byddaf yn ymatal.

Jenny Randerson spoken in English p. 25

Jenny Randerson siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 25

Although there is general agreement that a short debate is not an ideal way to give everyone the opportunity to voice their views. Ieuan Wyn Jones makes too much of the parallels with the House of Commons. One of the things we hope to do here is to plough a different furrow; to change the way things are done. There is no reason why we cannot discuss weighty issues and use the short debate to—shall we say—put down a marker. It would be unreasonable to expect the result of a short debate to be a commitment to spend vast amounts of money. However, there should be a vote at the end to provide an indicator to the Executive and the Committees about the Assembly’s feelings on an issue. After a vote, there could be an agreement to deal with matters raised by short debate in the appropriate Subject Committee. That system has already worked well with some topics. There is no reason to restrict short debates to local issues. If we do, we will have a similar system to Westminster. There will be half a dozen people listening to discussion on some esoteric topic or something that matters a great deal to their constituents but has no significance outside their area. All parties should seriously consider the opportunity provided by the short debate to raise issues that matter to them. The first short debate discussed a very important issue, you could not have a bigger one—that of Europe.

Er bod cytundeb cyffredinol nad yw dadl fer yn ffordd ddelfrydol i roi cyfle i bawb fynegi barn, mae Ieuan Wyn Jones yn cyffelybu gormod â Thŷ’r Cyffredin. Un o’r pethau yr ydym yn gobeithio ei wneud yma yw torri cwys wahanol; newid y ffordd y gwneir pethau. Nid oes rheswm pam na allwn drafod materion pwysig a defnyddio’r ddadl fer—a ddywedwn ni—i osod cyfeirbwynt. Afresymol fyddai disgwyl i ddadl fer arwain at ymrwymiad i wario symiau anferth o arian. Fodd bynnag, fe ddylid cael pleidlais ar y diwedd i roi arwydd i’r Adran Weithredol a’r Pwyllgorau o deimladau’r Cynulliad ar unrhyw fater. Ar ôl pleidlais, gellid cael cytundeb i ddelio â’r materion a godwyd drwy’r ddadl fer yn y Pwyllgor Pwnc priodol. Mae’r system honno eisoes wedi gweithio’n dda gyda rhai pynciau. Nid oes rheswm dros gyfyngu’r dadleuon byr i faterion lleol. Os gwnawn hynny, bydd gennym system debyg i un San Steffan. Bydd hanner dwsin o bobl yn gwrando ar drafodaeth am ryw bwnc esoterig neu’i gilydd sydd o bwys mawr i’w hetholwyr ond sydd heb unrhyw arwyddocâd y tu allan i’w hardal. Dylai’r holl bleidiau roi ystyriaeth ddifrifol i’r cyfle a roddir gan y ddadl fer i godi materion sydd o bwys iddynt. Fe drafodwyd mater pwysig iawn yn y ddadl fer gyntaf, ni allech gael un mwy—sef Ewrop.

Dafydd Elis-Thomas The Presiding Officer spoken in English p. 26

Dafydd Elis-Thomas Y Llywydd siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 26

Before I put the matter to a vote as I am required to do under Standing Order No. 5.4, I call the Business Secretary to respond.

Cyn imi roi’r mater i bleidlais fel y mae’n ofynnol imi wneud o dan Reol Sefydlog Rhif 5.4, galwaf ar y Trefnydd i ymateb.

Andrew Davies spoken in English p. 26

Andrew Davies siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 26

May I thank Ieuan Wyn Jones for raising this issue. My party sympathises with his point. We feel that the way the short debates have been conducted are not in the spirit of the original proposal laid down by the National Assembly Advisory Group. The short debate is our nearest equivalent to an Adjournment debate, which is an opportunity for back bench Members to raise issues of concern to which a Minister responds. So far, short debates have been conducted on highly contentious issues, which often have major budgetary and policy-making implications for the Assembly. That is not the most appropriate way of raising those issues. Therefore, I assure Ieuan that, as Business Secretary, I will refer this to the next meeting of the Business Committee, where we will discuss this meeting with the intention of reaching a rapid conclusion along the lines you suggested

Hoffwn ddiolch i Ieuan Wyn Jones am godi’r mater hwn. Mae fy mhlaid yn cydymdeimlo â’r pwynt sydd ganddo. Teimlwn nad yw’r modd y cynhaliwyd y dadleuon byr yn unol ag ysbryd y cynnig gwreiddiol a gyflwynwyd gan Grŵp Ymgynghorol y Cynulliad Cenedlaethol. Y ddadl fer yw’r peth sy’n cyfateb agosaf i ddadl Ohirio, sydd yn gyfle i Aelodau’r meinciau cefn godi materion o ddiddordeb y bydd Gweinidog yn ymateb iddynt. Hyd yn hyn, cynhaliwyd dadleuon byr ar faterion dadleuol iawn, sydd yn aml â goblygiadau mawr i’r Cynulliad o ran y gyllideb neu lunio polisïau. Nid honno yw’r ffordd fwyaf priodol i godi’r materion hynny. Felly, yr wyf yn sicrhau Ieuan y byddaf, fel Trefnydd, yn cyfeirio hyn at gyfarfod nesaf y Pwyllgor Busnes, lle y byddwn yn trafod y cyfarfod hwn gyda’r bwriad o gyrraedd ateb o’r math a awgrymwyd gennych.

Pleidlais t. 27

Vote p. 27

DerbyniwydAdopted Drwy ddangos dwyloShow of hands

Derbyniwyd y Datganiad Busnes.

Business Statement adopted.

Gofal Plant

Childcare

Jane Hutt The Secretary for Health and Social Services spoken in English p. 27

Jane Hutt Yr Ysgrifennydd dros Iechyd a Gwasanaethau Cymdeithasol siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 27

I propose that the Assembly:

Cynigiaf fod y Cynulliad:

Dafydd Elis-Thomas The Presiding Officer spoken in English p. 27

Dafydd Elis-Thomas Y Llywydd siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 27

I have selected the amendment standing in the name of Jenny Randerson, which will be proposed by Mike German.

Yr wyf wedi dethol gwelliant a wnaed yn enw Jenny Randerson, a gynigir gan Mike German.

Jane Hutt spoken in English p. 27

Jane Hutt siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 27

This is an important debate and I am very pleased to be opening it for several reasons. First, I was director of Chwarae Teg, which was set up to expand the role of women in the Welsh work force. Lack of childcare was a major issue that we were tackling. I am also a working parent and a working politician. My children and I have benefited from a wild—I mean wide—range of childcare, though I can assure you that it was wild on occasions trying to juggle home and family responsibilities with work. However, the wide range of childcare included a child minder, a playgroup and a day nursery. With other parents, I had to set up an after school club in our local school when my child reached the age of five. This is the experience of many people and I know there is a lot of experience in this Chamber. I am conscious that I had an income and the knowledge, experience and ability to help set up an after school club for my children and to help ensure that I had the best quality childcare, for which I could help to pay. In starting our consideration in the Assembly about childcare we have to think of the parents who do not have the ability and finances to do that.

Mae hon yn ddadl bwysig ac yr wyf yn falch iawn o’i hagor am sawl rheswm. Yn gyntaf, yr oeddwn yn gyfarwyddwr ar Chwarae Teg, a sefydlwyd i ehangu rôl benywod yng ngweithlu Cymru. Yr oedd diffyg gofal plant yn fater pwysig yr oeddem yn ymdrin ag ef. Yr wyf hefyd yn rhiant sy’n gweithio ac yn wleidydd sy’n gweithio. Mae fy mhlant a minnau wedi elwa ar amrediad eang o ofal plant a oedd hefyd yn wyllt ar brydiau pan oedd raid cydbwyso cyfrifoldebau’r cartref a’r teulu a gwaith. Fodd bynnag, yr oedd yr amrediad eang o ofal plant yn cynnwys gwarchodwr, grŵp chwarae a meinthrinfa ddydd. Gyda rhieni eraill, bu’n rhaid imi sefydlu clwb ar ôl ysgol yn ein hysgol leol pan gyrhaeddodd fy mhlentyn bump oed. Dyma brofiad llawer o bobl a gwn fod llawer o brofiad o hyn yn y Siambr hon. Yr wyf yn ymwybodol bod gennyf incwm a’r wybodaeth, y profiad a’r gallu i sefydlu clwb ar ôl ysgol i’m plant ac i sicrhau ei fod yn cynnig gofal plant o’r ansawdd gorau, y gallwn helpu i dalu amdano. Wrth inni ddechrau ystyried gofal plant yn y Cynulliad rhaid inni feddwl am y rhieni nad oes ganddynt mo’r gallu a’r arian i wneud hynny.

It is very important that childcare is on the political agenda. For many years, it was regarded as a women’s issue. It is an important policy issue and an economic, social and educational issue. However, first and foremost it is about our children—the quality of care for our children and their future.

Mae’n bwysig iawn bod gofal plant ar yr agenda gwleidyddol. Am flynyddoedd lawer, fe’i hystyriwyd yn fater i fenywod. Mae’n fater polisi pwysig ac yn fater economaidd, cymdeithasol ac addysgol. Fodd bynnag, yn gyntaf oll mae’n ymwneud â’n plant—ansawdd y gofal i’n plant a’u dyfodol.

We can be delighted that the Welsh Affairs Committee undertook this inquiry on childcare in Wales. I was also fortunate to be an adviser to that Committee. We received evidence from over 50 organisations from the voluntary, public and private sectors. We also saw facilities, talked to child minders, visited playgroups, day nurseries and after school clubs throughout Wales. We should thank the Welsh Affairs Committee for preparing the way for the Assembly to look at this thoroughly. The report contains wide-ranging conclusions and recommendations, to which we have to give careful thought, and so we feel that the best thing would be to remit it to all the relevant Assembly Committees. An amendment has been tabled. It raises a number of issues, which need to be considered carefully by the relevant Committees. We accept the amendment on the basis that it would be remitted with our motion to the Committees for their full consideration.

Gallwn ymhyfrydu yn y ffaith fod y Pwyllgor Materion Cymreig wedi ymgymryd â’r ymchwiliad hwn i ofal plant yng Nghymru. Yr oeddwn hefyd yn ffodus o gael bod yn ymgynghorydd i’r Pwyllgor hwnnw. Derbyniasom dystiolaeth oddi wrth fwy na 50 o gyrff yn y sectorau gwirfoddol, cyhoeddus a phreifat. Hefyd gwelsom gyfleusterau, bu inni siarad â gwarchodwyr, ac ymweld â meithrinfeydd dydd a chlybiau ar ôl ysgol drwy Gymru. Dylem ddiolch i’r Pwyllgor Materion Cymreig am baratoi’r ffordd i’r Cynulliad edrych ar hyn yn drwyadl. Mae’r adroddiad yn cynnwys casgliadau ac argymhellion eang, y bydd raid inni roi ystyriaeth ofalus iddynt, a’n teimlad, felly, yw mai’r peth gorau fyddai ei gyfeirio i Bwyllgorau perthnasol y Cynulliad. Mae gwelliant wedi ei gyflwyno. Mae’n codi nifer o faterion, y bydd raid i’r Pwyllgorau perthnasol roi ystyriaeth ofalus iddynt. Yr ydym yn derbyn y gwelliant ar y sail y byddai’n cael ei gyfeirio gyda’n cynnig i’r Pwyllgorau i’w ystyried yn llawn.

It is vital to recognise that we are considering a report of the Welsh Affairs Committee, which will obviously discuss the matter with other Government departments. Many issues relate to Wales and to our powers in the Assembly, but others of a more general application relate to other powers and they will also have to be considered. I hope that the Select Committee and the relevant Assembly Committees will take on board our considerations and this debate.

Mae’n hollbwysig sylweddoli ein bod yn ystyried adroddiad gan y Pwyllgor Materion Cymreig a fydd, wrth reswm, yn trafod y mater gydag adrannau eraill o’r Llywodraeth. Mae llawer o’r materion yn ymwneud â Chymru a’n pwerau yn y Cynulliad, ond mae eraill sy’n fwy cyffredinol o ran eu cymhwysiad ac yn ymwneud â phwerau eraill a bydd raid ystyried y rheini hefyd. Gobeithio y bydd y Pwyllgor Dethol a Phwyllgorau perthnasol y Cynulliad yn cymryd ein sylwadau a’r ddadl hon i ystyriaeth.

This childcare strategy brings together the principles of partnership and of promoting equality of opportunity. It goes to the heart of our social and economic agenda, which we discussed last week when we talked about social inclusion. It is vital that, when debating the childcare strategy both today and in the Committees, we consider how we can ensure that childcare provides an opportunity for all our children and parents in Wales. We recognise that affordability and quality are key issues that have to be taken on board. In addition, a lot of work has been done to prepare the way. We have a Welsh childcare strategy and local authorities have taken a lead in developing local childcare partnerships.

Mae’r strategaeth gofal plant hon yn cyfuno egwyddorion partneriaeth a hybu cyfle cyfarfal. Mae hefyd yn mynd at wraidd ein hagenda cymdeithasol ac economaidd, a drafodwyd gennym yr wythnos diwethaf pan oeddem yn ymdrin â dieithrwch cymdeithasol. Mae’n hanfodol, wrth drafod y strategaeth gofal plant heddiw ac yn y Pwyllgorau, ein bod yn ystyried sut y gallwn sicrhau bod gofal plant yn darparu cyfle i’n holl blant ac i’n holl rieni yng Nghymru. Yr ydym yn cydnabod bod fforddiadwyedd ac ansawdd yn faterion allweddol y bydd raid eu hystyried. Yn ogystal â hynny, fe wnaed llawer o waith i baratoi’r ffordd. Mae gennym strategaeth gofal plant i Gymru ac mae’r awdurdodau lleol wedi arwain wrth ddatblygu partneriaethau gofal plant lleol.

I would like to make three points. First, there is an economic agenda. Clearly, the quality, accessibility and affordability of childcare is critical for children and parents and that is an economic point for Wales. It is obviously important that we ensure that lack of childcare is not a barrier to parents’ ability to work or to return to training and learning opportunities. We discussed this a few weeks ago when Tom Middlehurst referred to the fact that childcare is an important part of the infrastructure of colleges, further education, higher education and lifelong learning. One of the first crèches which I helped to set up was at the South Glamorgan Women’s Workshop. We received European funding to establish the work force which trained women in computing, technology, and electronics. That was one of the first crèches of its kind in Wales that was supported by Europe. We know we now have greater opportunities. The New Opportunities Fund will bring in a lot of money through the lottery. That can be matched by European structural fund money, so there are opportunities for new funding to help us to develop this childcare strategy.

Hpffwn wneud tri phwynt. Yn gyntaf, mae yna agenda economaidd. Mae’n amlwg bod ansawdd, hygyrchedd a fforddiadwyedd gofal plant o’r pwys mwyaf i blant a rhieni ac mae hynny’n bwynt economaidd i Gymru. Mae’n amlwg ei bod yn bwysig inni sicrhau nad yw diffyg gofal plant yn rhwystro rhieni rhag gweithio neu ddychwelyd i gyfleoedd hyfforddi a dysgu. Bu inni drafod hyn ychydig wythnosau’n ôl pan gyfeiriodd Tom Middlehurst at y ffaith bod gofal plant yn rhan bwysig o isadeiledd colegau, addysg bellach, addysg uwch a dysgu ar hyd oes. Un o’r meithrinfeydd y cynorthwyais i’w sefydlu oedd honno yng Ngweithdy Benywod De Morgannwg. Derbyniasom gyllid Ewropeaidd i sefydlu’r gweithlu a hyfforddai fenywod mewn cyfrifiaduro, technoleg, ac electroneg. Honno oedd un o’r meithrinfeydd cyntaf o’i bath yng Nghymru a gefnogwyd gan Ewrop. Mae gennym gyfleoedd mwy bellach. Bydd y Gronfa Cyfleoedd Newydd yn dod â llawer o arian drwy’r lotri. Gellir cael arian i gyfateb iddo o’r cronfeydd strwythurol Ewropeaidd, felly mae yna gyfleoedd i gael arian newydd i’n helpu i ddatblygu’r strategaeth gofal plant hon.

Secondly, the Assembly needs to help develop the childcare strategy with the principles of social inclusion and equality of opportunity. That means that, throughout Wales, we need to look at the needs of black and ethnic minority children and of disabled children, and the needs of rural communities, which are very different from our urban communities. We need to take account of the existing vast range of facilities in Wales involving a partnership between child minders, playgroups, day nurseries, schools, local authorities, the voluntary sector and employers. That employers also have a role to play in supporting childcare is an important point in the report.

Yn ail, mae angen i’r Cynulliad helpu i ddatblygu strategaeth gofal plant â chynhwysiant cymdeithasol a chyfle cyfartal yn egwyddorion iddi. Mae hynny’n golygu, drwy Gymru, fod angen inni edrych ar anghenion plant mewn lleiafrifoedd ethnig a du a phlant anabl, ac anghenion cymunedau gwledig, sydd yn wahanol iawn i’n cymunedau trefol. Rhaid inni gymryd i ystyriaeth yr amrediad eang o gyfleusterau sydd yng Nghymru ar hyn o bryd sy’n cynnwys partneriaeth rhwng gwarchodwyr plant, grwpiau chwarae, meithrinfeydd dydd, ysgolion, awdurdodau lleol, y sector gwirfoddol a chyflogwyr. Pwynt pwysig yn yr adroddiad yw bod gan gyflogwyr rôl i’w chwarae wrth gefnogi gofal plant.

Finally, we must consider childcare as a source of employment in Wales. It provides jobs and careers and is part of the new deal through encouraging young people to work in childcare. The National Assembly for Wales should recognise childcare as the future for our children, for employment, for lifelong learning and for creating opportunities that people in some communities have not had. Local partnerships and Committees in the Assembly will give this report on the childcare strategy a very good debate. I am glad it is at the top of our policy agenda, that we are not marginalising it and saying that this is just an equal opportunities issue or a women’s issue. It is a policy issue, an issue for parents and children and an economic, social and educational issue. We should take the matter forward through a lively debate today and than remit it to all our Committees for appropriate and full discussion.

Yn olaf, rhaid inni ystyried gofal plant fel ffynhonnell cyflogaeth yng Nghymru. Mae’n darparu swyddi a gyrfaoedd ac yn rhan o’r Fargen Newydd drwy annog pobl ifanc i weithio mewn gofal plant. Dylai Cynulliad Cenedlaethol Cymru gydnabod gofal plant fel y dyfodol i’n plant, i gyflogaeth, i ddysgu ar hyd oes ac i greu cyfleoedd nad yw pobl mewn rhai cymunedau wedi eu cael. Bydd y partneriaethau lleol a’r Pwyllgorau yn y Cynulliad yn cynnal dadl dda iawn ar yr adroddiad hwn ar y strategaeth gofal plant. Yr wyf yn falch ei fod ar ben ein hagenda polisi, ac nad ydym yn ei roi o’r neilltu ac yn dweud nad yw ond yn fater cyfle cyfartal neu’n fater i fenywod. Mae’n fater polisi, yn fater i rieni a phlant ac yn fater economaidd, cymdeithasol ac addysgol. Dylem ddatblygu’r mater drwy ddadl fywiog heddiw ac wedyn ei gyfeirio i’n holl Bwyllgorau i’w drafod yn llawn ac yn briodol.

Michael German spoken in English p. 30

Michael German siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 30

I propose the following amendment to the motion:

Cynigiaf y gwelliant canlynol i’r cynnig:

Michael German (continued) spoken in English p. 31

Michael German (parhad) siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 31

I am pleased that this amendment will form part of the full motion and will be discussed in the Committees. Part of the purpose of tabling it today was to put down some markers about what must happen in financing the childcare strategy for Wales and its future direction. I hope that the amendment will strengthen the motion and give some indicators about where we might look in the future.

Yr wyf yn falch y bydd y gwelliant hwn yn rhan o’r cynnig llawn ac y caiff ei drafod yn y Pwyllgorau. Rhan o’r pwrpas o’i gyflwyno heddiw oedd gosod rhai cyfeirbwyntiau ynghylch yr hyn fydd yn angenrheidiol er mwyn ariannu’r strategaeth gofal plant i Gymru a’i chyfeiriad yn y dyfodol. Gobeithio y bydd y gwelliant yn cryfhau’r cynnig ac yn rhoi rhai awgrymiadau ynghylch lle y gallem edrych yn y dyfodol.

My Liberal Democrat colleagues and I welcome many aspects of this childcare report. It appears that there is at last serious joined-up thinking on the implications of childcare provision. The link has now been established between economic activity and the web of cultural and social factors that prevent its development. We in this Assembly must ensure that the link is not broken in our thinking. However, we will not be able to tackle the underlying problem of high levels of economic inactivity and low skills, unless we take action now to put in place the financial regime to support these changes. Joined-up thinking requires joined-up funding and, as the Welsh Affairs Committee concludes:

Yr wyf fi a’m cyd-weithwyr Democrataidd Rhyddfrydol yn croesawu llawer agwedd ar yr adroddiad hwn ar ofal plant. Mae’n ymddangos o’r diwedd fod yma ystyriaeth gyfunedig ddifrifol o oblygiadau darpariaeth gofal plant. Mae’r cysylltiad wedi ei sefydlu bellach rhwng gweithgaredd economaidd a’r gwead o ffactorau diwylliannol a chymdeithasol sy’n rhwystro ei ddatblygiad. Rhaid i ni yn y Cynulliad hwn sicrhau na fydd y cysylltiad yn cael ei dorri yn ein meddwl. Fodd bynnag, ni fyddwn yn gallu ymdrin â phroblem waelodol y lefelau uchel o anweithgaredd economaidd a medrau isel, oni weithredwn yn awr drwy sefydlu’r gyfundrefn ariannol i gefnogi’r newidiadau hyn. Mae meddwl cyfunedig yn gofyn ariannu cyfunedig ac, fel y dywed y Pwyllgor Materion Cymreig wrth derfynu:

‘Government must put its money where its mouth is.’

The European funding provides us with a unique, window of opportunity to underpin Wales’ economic recovery and we must accept that childcare is a fundamental keystone to that recovery. It is also critical to the success of regeneration strategies. You cannot revitalise a community, socially or economically, without enabling people, particularly women, to be ushered back into the work place. We all accept that the strategic development of childcare policies requires an integrated approach, involving the Assembly, local government and private and voluntary sectors, if our objective to deliver affordable and sustainable childcare in Wales’ disadvantaged communities is to be achieved.

Mae’r cyllid Ewropeaidd yn rhoi cyfle unigryw inni ategu adferiad economaidd Cymru a rhaid inni dderbyn bod gofal plant yn gonglfaen hanfodol yn yr adferiad hwnnw. Mae hefyd yn hollbwysig i lwyddiant y strategaethau adfywio. Ni allwch adfywio cymuned, yn gymdeithasol neu’n economaidd, heb alluogi pobl, yn enwedig benywod, i gael eu hebrwng yn ôl i’r lle gwaith. Yr ydym oll yn derbyn bod datblygu strategol ar bolisïau gofal plant yn gofyn dull gweithredu integreiddiedig, yn cynnwys y Cynulliad, llywodraeth leol a’r sectorau preifat a gwirfoddol, os ydym i gyflawni’r nod o gyflenwi gofal plant fforddiadwy a chynaliadwy yng nghymunedau difreintiedig Cymru.

It will also need to go further. Parents, for instance, will need to improve their skills and their earning potential to enable them to pay the fees required for quality childcare facilities. The potential market for private childcare provision in Wales is shrinking, as witnessed by the impact on many playgroups in Wales. The part-time provision within state nursery schools has paradoxically thrown up a new set of problems—how to provide wrap-around care—so that full-time provision in reality is a major challenge. By comparison, in low income communities free state provision may be the only alternative to no provision at all. The lack of quality childcare provision prevents women and the socially excluded from taking advantage of training opportunities. Current funding of the further education sector in Wales means that outreach training is a luxury that cannot be afforded on a large scale. Further education budgets have been clawed back and low cost or free childcare is largely out of reach within the colleges’ existing funding. Added to this, the loss of discretionary awards from local education authorities makes it difficult for further education students to live, let alone meet the costs of childcare. Private sector nurseries are under pressure because school provision is expanding. There is space for everyone. There is scope for more development. School provision is not full-time and all day childcare is needed for those working and those going back to work—not just a few hours a day. Above all, the partnership for economic revival must include the voluntary sector and not just make symbolic noises about its involvement.

Bydd raid iddo fynd ymhellach hefyd. Er enghraifft, bydd angen i rieni wella eu medrau a’u potensial i ennill cyflog i’w galluogi i dalu’r ffïoedd angenrheidiol ar gyfer cyfleusterau gofal plant o ansawdd da. Mae’r farchnad ddichonol i’r ddarpariaeth gofal plant breifat yng Nghymru yn crebachu, fel y gwelir yn yr effaith ar lawer o grwpiau chwarae yng Nghymru. Mae’r ddarpariaeth ran-amser o fewn ysgolion meithrin gwladol, yn baradocsaidd, wedi creu set newydd o broblemau—sut i ddarparu gofal amgylchynol—felly, mewn gwirionedd, mae darpariaeth lawn-amser yn sialens fawr. O gymharu â hyn, gallai’r ddarpariaeth wladol ddi-dâl mewn cymunedau incwm isel bod yn unig ddewis yn lle dim darpariaeth o gwbl. Mae’r diffyg darpariaeth o ofal plant o ansawdd da yn rhwystro benywod a’r rhai a ddieithriwyd yn gymdeithasol rhag manteisio ar gyfleoedd hyfforddi. Mae’r ariannu cyfredol ar y sector addysg bellach yng Nghymru yn golygu bod hyfforddiant allanol yn foethusrwydd na ellir ei fforddio ar raddfa fawr. Mae cyllidebau addysg bellach wedi eu bachu’n ôl ac mae gofal plant cost-isel neu ddi-dâl y tu hwnt i gyrraedd i raddau helaeth o fewn cyllid presennol y colegau. Ar ben hynny, mae colli’r dyfarndaliadau dewisol oddi wrth awdurdodau addysg lleol yn ei gwneud yn anodd i fyfyrwyr addysg bellach fyw, heb sôn am dalu costau gofal plant. Mae meithrinfeydd y sector preifat dan bwysau am fod y ddarpariaeth mewn ysgolion yn ehangu. Mae lle i bawb. Mae yna gyfle ar gyfer rhagor o ddatblygu. Nid yw’r ddarpariaeth yn yr ysgolion yn llawn-amser ac mae angen gofal plant drwy’r dydd ar y rhai sy’n gweithio neu’n dychwelyd i waith—nid ychydig oriau’r diwrnod. Yn fwy na dim, rhaid i’r bartneriaeth ar gyfer adfywio economaidd gynnwys y sector gwirfoddol ac nid gwneud synau symbolaidd am ei gyfraniad.

The new European funding provides the key to unlock these developments, if the match funding can be achieved. Ron Davies told us last week that we needed over £300 million over three years—a view that he said was not supported by the Cabinet. Wales has only £35 million in the kitty. That is a big gap to bridge. We must not stop planning while the fight for match funding goes on. The coming debate on the National Strategy document must find satisfactory solutions to all of these problems. Childcare must be a key component in the plan for economic growth, and perhaps we should take the lead here by considering carefully the provision of childcare facilities. We should consider the provision of childcare facilities for Members and staff of the National Assembly. At present we are seen as paying lip service to the family-friendly approach recommended to us. It may be time for us to take action to put our own house in order.

Mae’r ariannu Ewropeaidd newydd yn rhoi’r allwedd i ddatgloi’r datblygiadau hyn, os gellir sicrhau’r arian cyfatebol. Fe ddywedodd Ron Davies wrthym yr wythnos diwethaf fod arnom angen dros £300 miliwn dros dair blynedd—barn nad oedd y Cabinet yn ei chefnogi, meddai ef. Dim ond £35 miliwn sydd gan Gymru yn y gronfa. Mae hynny’n fwlch mawr i’w gau. Ni ddylem roi’r gorau i gynllunio wrth i’r frwydr dros arian cyfatebol fynd rhagddi. Rhaid i’r ddadl sydd i ddod ar ddogfen y Strategaeth Genedlaethol ganfod atebion boddhaol i bob un o’r problemau hyn. Rhaid i ofal plant fod yn rhan annatod o’r cynllun ar gyfer twf economaidd, ac efallai y dylem roi arweiniad yma drwy ystyried y ddarpariaeth o gyfleusterau gofal plant yn ofalus. Dylem ystyried darparu cyfleusterau gofal plant ar gyfer Aelodau a staff y Cynulliad Cenedlaethol. Ar hyn o bryd fe’n gwelir fel rhai sy’n talu gwasanaeth gwefusau i’r dull gweithredu o blaid teuluoedd a argymhellwyd i ni. Efallai ei bod yn bryd inni weithredu i roi trefn ar ein tŷ ein hunain.

This Assembly must be bold enough to state that childcare will be one of the priorities for European funding and that it will be seen as an essential cornerstone to encourage wider participation in economic activity. The strategy for childcare will involve a wide range of partnerships. It will now be up to local childcare partnerships and individual project teams to prepare imaginative bids for funding. Six years ahead offer a window of opportunity to transform not only childcare but the whole economic climate in Wales, particularly in areas of most disadvantage. To get maximum benefit from the available European funding, this work must start now.

Rhaid i’r Cynulliad hwn fod yn ddigon eofn i ddatgan y bydd gofal plant yn un o’r blaenoriaethau ar gyfer ariannu Ewropeaidd ac y’i hystyrir yn gonglfaen hanfodol i annog cyfranogiad ehangach mewn gweithgaredd economaidd. Bydd y strategaeth gofal plant yn cynnwys amrediad eang o bartneriaethau. Lle’r partneriaethau gofal plant a’r timau projectau unigol yn awr fydd paratoi ceisiadau dyfeisgar am ariannu; cynnig cyfle ymhen chwe blynedd i weddnewid gofal plant a hefyd yr holl hinsawdd economaidd yng Nghymru, yn enwedig yn yr ardaloedd mwyaf difreintiedig. Er mwyn cael y budd mwyaf o’r ariannu Ewropeaidd sydd ar gael, rhaid i’r gwaith hwn ddechrau’n awr.

Gareth Jones siaradwyd yn Gymraeg t. 34

Gareth Jones spoken in Welsh p. 34

A gaf i ddatgan fy ngwerthfawrogiad o’r ffaith fod y Llywodraeth yn rhoi sylw buan a theilwng i addysg-ofal a’i bod felly’n cydnabod bod y profiadau a gaiff plentyn yn ystod y cyfnod ffurfiannol cynnar yn dyngedfennol o ran ei ragolygon weddill ei oes. Croesawaf hefyd y ffaith fod y Llywodraeth, drwy’r cynnig sydd gerbron, yn cydnabod y berthynas rhwng argaeledd gofal plant i deuluoedd a phlant yng Nghymru a thwf economaidd, creu a chadw swyddi, iechyd a lles teuluol, gwell canlyniadau addysgol ac atal dieithrwch cymdeithasol. Yr ydym ninnau fel plaid wedi rhoi sylw arbennig i’r gwelliant a daethom i’r casgliad fod yr eitemau hyn yn holl bwysig. Maent yn eitemau a ddylai fod yn y ddadl beth bynnag. Yr wyf yn falch o glywed Jane yn dweud bod yr eitemau sydd yn y gwelliant yn cael eu cyfeirio i’r Pwyllgorau Pwnc. Yr ydym yn croesawu hynny ac felly’n cefnogi’r cynnig.

May I first of all state my appreciation of the fact that the Government is giving early and due attention to edu-care, and that it therefore recognises that the experiences of a child during the early formative years are crucial to its lifetime prospects. I also welcome the fact that the Government, through this motion, recognises the relationship between the availability of childcare for families and children in Wales and economic growth, creating and keeping jobs, health and family welfare, better educational results and the prevention of social exclusion. We as a party have paid particular attention to the amendment and we have come to the conclusion that these items are all-important. They are items that should have been included in the debate anyway. I am glad to hear Jane saying that the items in the amendment will be referred to the Subject Committees. We welcome that and therefore support the amendment.

Hoffwn fanteisio ar y cyfle i ganolbwyntio ar rai agweddau sydd o bwys i ni fel plaid. Yn sicr yr ydym wedi ystyried gofal plant yn fanwl iawn. O ddarllen adroddiad y Pwyllgor Materion Cymreig ar ofal plant yng Nghymru ac, yn fwy perthnasol, y dystiolaeth a gyflwynwyd i’r Pwyllgor gan gynrychiolwyr o wahanol sefydliadau sy’n ddylanwadol yn y maes, y mae’n gwbl amlwg ei fod yn faes sy’n teilyngu’r flaenoriaeth uchaf. Mae’n deg cydnabod a gwerthfawrogi’r gwaith da sy’n cael ei wneud ledled Cymru, yn enwedig gan unigolion a grwpiau neu fudiadau o’r sector gwirfoddol, dan amgylchiadau anodd iawn. Mae diffyg cyllido cyson a chynaladwy yn peri ansicrwydd a diffyg hyder o ran cynllunio strategaeth ar gyfer y dyfodol.

I would like to take the opportunity to concentrate on some aspects that are important to us as a party. We have certainly given detailed attention to childcare. From reading the report of the Welsh Select Committee on Childcare in Wales and, more relevantly, the evidence presented to the Committee by representatives from different institutions which are influential in the field, it is obvious that it is an area which deserves the highest priority. It is fair to recognise and appreciate the good work that is being done throughout Wales, particularly by individuals and groups or movements in the voluntary sector, under very difficult circumstances. Lack of regular and sustainable funding causes uncertainty and a lack of confidence from the standpoint of strategic planning for the future.

Mae’n galondid sylweddoli bod rhai o’r unigolion hynny a gyflwynodd dystiolaeth i’r Pwyllgor bellach yn aelodau allweddol o’n Cynulliad. Byddant yn awyddus iawn i ymateb yn gadarnhaol i adfer sefyllfa sy’n prysur waethygu yng Nghymru am nifer o resymau. Yn sicr, o ddarllen tystiolaeth yr unigolion hyn ac o ystyried eu cyfranogiad a’u profiad yn y maes, mae eu dirnadaeth o wendidau’r gyfundrefn addysg-ofal bresennol ac o’r diffygion amlwg yn y ddogfen ‘Strategaeth Genedlaethol Gofal Plant yng Nghymru’ a gyflwynwyd ym Mehefin 1998, yn peri i mi feddwl y gallwn lwyddo i ddatblygu strategaeth a chynllun gweithredu a fydd yn fwy perthnasol a buddiol i’n teuluoedd ni yng Nghymru.

It is encouraging to realise that some of the individuals who presented evidence to the Committee are by now key Members of our Assembly. They will be keen to respond positively to restore a situation that is fast deteriorating in Wales for several reasons. Certainly, from reading these individuals’ evidence and considering their participation and experience in the field, their understanding of the weaknesses of the existing edu-care system and the obvious shortfalls in the ‘The National Childcare Strategy in Wales’ document presented in June 1998, makes me think that we will succeed in developing a strategy and action plan that will be far more relevant and beneficial to our families in Wales.

Yr wyf yn siwr y byddem yn cytuno mai dogfen siomedig iawn yw hon; dogfen sy’n methu â gwneud cyfiawnder ag ymrwymiad canmoladwy Llywodraeth y Deyrnas Unedig i helpu teuluoedd a phlant. Rhaid cydnabod bod gan y Llywodraeth y weledigaeth a’r awydd i helpu teuluoedd, ond nid yw’r ddogfen hon, o ran strategaeth genedlaethol i Gymru, yn adeiladu ar y sylfaen y cyfeirir ato yn y cyflwyniad gan yr Ysgrifennydd Gwladol ar y pryd, Ron Davies:

I am certain that we would all agree that this document is very disappointing; it fails to do justice to the commendable commitment of the United Kingdom Government to help families and children. We must recognise that the Government has the vision and the desire to help families, but this document, in terms of a national strategy for Wales, does not build on the foundation referred to in the introduction by the Secretary of State at the time, Ron Davies:

‘Bydd angen iddi gynnwys darpariaeth mewn ardaloedd gwledig a threfol, a darpariaeth ar gyfer y Gymraeg, anghenion lleiafrifoedd ethnig a’r rhai sydd ag anghenion arbennig.’

‘It will need to include provision in rural and urban areas, provision for the Welsh language, the needs of ethnic minorities and those with special needs.’.

Gareth Jones siaradwyd yn Gymraeg ac yn Saesneg t. 35

Gareth Jones spoken in Welsh and English p. 35

Mae Plaid Cymru yn cymeradwyo’r weledigaeth honno ond yn anghytuno’n llwyr â’r strategaeth gyfeiliornus yn y ddogfen, sydd eisoes yn creu yn hytrach na datrys trafferthion a phroblemau, yn bennaf am mai dogfen sydd a’i chynnwys yn berthnasol i Loegr drefol yw hon ac nid i Gymru wledig a threfol fel y dywedodd Ron Davies.

in Welsh Plaid Cymru commends this vision but totally disagrees with the erroneous strategy in the document, which is already creating difficulties and problems rather than solving them, mainly because its contents are relevant to urban England and not to rural and urban Wales, as Ron Davies said.

Mae adroddiad y Pwyllgor Materion Cymreig hefyd yn hallt ei feirniadaeth o’r strategaeth ac mae’r dyfyniad canlynol yn crynhoi’r feirniadaeth a’r rhwystredigaeth. Gan fod yr adroddiad yn y Saesneg, fe ddyfynnaf yn yr iaith honno:

in Welsh The report of the Welsh Affairs Committee strongly criticises the strategy and the following quotation crystallises the criticism and frustration. I will quote in English because that is the language of the document:

‘We agree with the Government that there is a need for a strategy to tackle these problems. By a strategy we mean not a glossy document full of fine words and good intentions, but a coherent plan of action.’

yn Saesneg ‘We agree with the Government that there is a need for strategy to tackle these problems. By a strategy we mean not a glossy document full of fine words and good intentions, but a coherent plan of action.’

Braidd yn hallt efallai o ystyried y weledigaeth, ond mae beirniadaethau’r Pwyllgor Materion Cymreig o’r strategaeth arfaethedig yn ein gorfodi i ganolbwyntio ar y diffygion hynny y bydd yn rhaid i Bwyllgor Busnes a Phwyllgorau priodol y Cynulliad eu hystyried a’u datrys wrth lunio strategaeth genedlaethol ar gyfer addysg-ofal gynhwysfawr.

in Welsh Slightly harsh perhaps, considering the vision, but the Welsh Affairs Committee’s criticism of the proposed strategy forces us to focus on the deficiencies that the Business Committee and appropriate Assembly Committees will have to consider and resolve when devising a national strategy for comprehensive edu-care.

Wedi dweud hynny, yr ydym yn fodlon derbyn a chefnogi’r cynnig ond yr wyf am gyfeirio at rai materion allweddol y mae angen eu gwyntyllu a’u datrys neu ddod i benderfyniad yn eu cylch. Yr ydym am ei gwneud yn hollol glir y bydd Plaid Cymru, wedi hynny, am iddynt gael eu hymgorffori mewn unrhyw strategaeth a lunnir gan y Cynulliad. Cydnabuwyd y rhan fwyaf ohonynt eisoes fel pwyntiau allweddol i hyrwyddo strategaeth a fyddai’n sicrhau argaeledd gofal plant o ansawdd da yng Nghymru.

in Welsh Having said that, we are prepared to accept and support this motion but I wish to refer to some key matters which need to be aired and which should be resolved or decided upon. We want to make it clear that, having done that, Plaid Cymru will want them to be incorporated in any strategy formed by the Assembly. The majority have already been recognised as key factors in promoting the strategy of ensuring the availability of high quality childcare in Wales.

Heblaw am broblemau cyllidol ymarferol, dywed tystiolaeth gref wrthym y dylem ymbwyllo cyn rhuthro i ostwng oedran cychwyn addysg orfodol i dair oed, fel sydd yn digwydd ar hyn o bryd. Mae lle i ystyried yr arfer da mewn gwledydd eraill, ac i bryderu ein bod wedi mynd yn ôl i sefyllfa o ddiffyg darpariaeth benodol ar gyfer y plant ieuengaf ers cyflwyno’r cynlluniau blynyddoedd cynnar—bod plant mor ifanc â phrin bedair oed yn eistedd wrth ddesgiau mewn dosbarth o blant rhwng tair a saith oed. Cred Plaid Cymru y dylid sicrhau arwahanrwydd addysgol yr oed meithrin gan gydnabod a pharchu’r gwahaniaeth sylfaenol sydd yn anghenion dysgu plant rhwng tair a phump oed.

in Welsh Apart from practical financial problems, strong evidence shows that we should reflect before rushing to lower the age of starting compulsory education to three, as is happening at present. There is room to consider good practice in other countries and for concern that we have returned to a situation of lack of specific provision for the youngest children since the introduction of the early years schemes—that children as young as three are sitting at desks in a classroom of children ranging in age from three to seven. Plaid Cymru believes that we should ensure that nursery age children are educated separately and acknowledge and respect the fundamental differences in the learning needs of children between three and five years of age.

Dylid sicrhau’r amodau gorau ar gyfer hyrwyddo’r dysgu hwnnw ac ystyried plant dan dair oed sydd heb gael sylw yn nhermau gofal o ansawdd. Mae anghenion y plentyn meithrin yn golygu bod angen awyrgylch ac amgylchiadau dysgu sy’n wahanol i’r rhai sy’n addas ar gyfer plant hŷn. Gallwn ymhelaethu ond fe ddyfynnaf o’r adroddiad yn y Saesneg:

in Welsh We should ensure the best conditions possible to promote that teaching and consider children under three years of age who have not been given any attention in terms of quality care. The needs of the nursery child require a different learning ethos and different circumstances from those appropriate for older children. I could elaborate on that point but I will quote from the report in English:

‘The form of early years education is an area for urgent debate. In our view, learning through play is the right approach for very young children.’

O ystyried hynny, mae tystiolaeth yr adroddiad am gylchoedd chwarae a meithrin yn cau, a phlant bach yn cael eu lleoli mewn unedau neu ddosbarthiadau meithrin mewn ysgolion, yn aml er lles cyllid yr ysgol yn hytrach na lles y plentyn, yn fater o bryder dwfn. Dyna yw gwendid cynhenid y strategaeth—nid ydyw’n canolbwyntio digon ar anghenion y plentyn a darparu gofal o ansawdd ond yn hytrach yn edrych fwy ar sut i gael y rhiant yn ôl i’r gwaith. Strategaeth gofal ydyw yn hytrach na strategaeth i blant, neu agenda ‘welfare to work’. Dylid cywiro hyn drwy gydnabod pwysigrwydd y grwpiau a’r cylchoedd meithrin a fyddai’n rhoi pwyslais ar y plentyn, a chefnogir hyn yn gadarn gan yr adroddiad:

in Welsh In view of this, the report’s evidence of the closure of playgroups and nursery groups and children being placed in units or nursery classes in schools, very often for the benefit of the school’s budget rather than that of the child, is of deep concern. That is the basic weakness of the strategy—it does not concentrate sufficiently on the needs of the child and quality childcare, but instead looks closer at how to get the parent back to work. It is a care strategy rather than a strategy for children, or the ‘welfare to work’ agenda. We need to rectify this by recognising the importance of nursery groups that would put the emphasis on the child. This is firmly supported by the report:

‘Local education authorities must be persuaded to build on existing playgroup provision, not undermine it. Playgroups are clearly part of the solution to developing affordable childcare.’

Mae’n ynfydrwydd inni ganiatáu i’r strategaeth bresennol orfodi grwpiau a chylchoedd meithrin i gau pan nad ydym mewn sefyllfa i ddiwallu anghenion plant meithrin yn ein hysgolion. Byddai’n weithred anghyfrifol o gofio’r diffygion. Yn ôl y dystiolaeth, bydd rhaid, yn y dyfodol agos, ailsefydlu grwpiau gwirfoddol sy’n cael eu difa’n systematig ar hyn o bryd, os ydym o ddifrif ynglŷn â sefydlu strategaeth o ansawdd da, gan mai’r grwpiau hyn sydd yn gallu cynnig y dewis angenrhediol i deuluoedd Cymreig:

in Welsh It is foolish to allow the present strategy to force playgroups and nursery groups to close when we are not in a position to provide for nursery children in our school. That would be irresponsible, given the deficiencies. According to the evidence, we will, in the near future, have to re-establish voluntary groups which are being systematically decimated if we seriously want to establish a high quality strategy, as these groups can offer the necessary choice for Welsh families:

‘It is a matter of great concern to us that the future of playgroups in Wales is under threat as an unintended consequence of the UK Government’s policy of lowering the age of school entry.’

yn Saesneg ‘It is matter of great concern to us that the future playgroups in Wales is under threat as an unintended consequence of the UK Government’s policy of lowering the age of school entry.’

Dylid atal y ffolineb hwnnw yn ddiymdroi. Nid yw’r Partneriaethau Blynyddoedd Cynnar yn gweithio gan eu bod yn tueddu i fod yn bartneriaethau un cyfeiriad. Mae angen gosod canllawiau eglur ar eu cyfer fel bod pawb yn deall y sefyllfa.

in Welsh This foolishness should be stopped immediately. The Early Years Partnerships do not work because they tend to be one-directional partnerships. We need to establish clear guidelines for them so that everyone understands the situation.

Ar ben hynny, mae colli cylchoedd cyfrwng Cymraeg nid yn unig yn drist, ond yn anfaddeuol, ac yn ôl yr adroddiad:

in Welsh On top of this, the loss of Welsh-medium groups is not only sad, but unforgivable, and according to the report:

‘The loss of Welsh medium playgroups, particularly in areas where the local school operates in English, has very serious implications for the future of the Welsh language.’

yn Saesneg ‘The loss of Welsh medium playgroups particularly in areas where the local school operates in English, has very serious implications for the future of the Welsh language.’

Anogir pob partneriaeth gofal plant gan yr adroddiad i atal y bygythiad hwn i gylchoedd a grwpiau meithrin gan fod adfer y sefyllfa hon yn angenrheidiol. Mae’r Gymraeg yn perthyn i holl blant Cymru. Fel rhan o raglen ddatblygol addysg feithrin dylid cynnwys rhaglen o godi ymwybyddiaeth gyhoeddus o bwysigrywdd creiddiol y Gymraeg i hunaniaeth pobl Cymru ynghyd â phwysleisio gwerth dwyieithrwydd a’r manteision o gychwyn plant ifainc ar y broses o gaffael y Gymraeg.

in Welsh The report encourages each childcare partnership to stop this threat to nursery groups and playgroups because rectifying this situation is essential. The Welsh language belongs to all the children of Wales. A development programme for nursery education should include a programme to raise public awareness of the intrinsic importance of the Welsh language to the identity of the people of Wales together with stressing the value of bilingualism and the advantages of starting to learn Welsh at an early age.

Mae’n amlwg fod diffyg cyllid hefyd yn amharu ar y ddarpariaeth ar gyfer plant ag anghenion arbennig a rhoddir sylw i hyn yn yr adroddiad. Fe ddyfynnaf o’r adroddiad i’n hatgoffa mor anobeithiol yw’r sefyllfa:

in Welsh The report also pays attention to the obvious effect that lack of funds has had on the provision for children with special needs. I will quote from the report to remind us of the hopelessness of the situation:

‘There needs to be a clear national commitment to provide integrated childcare for disabled children with special needs. The Government must demonstrate that its commitment to social inclusion extends to the young and disabled.’

Tynnir sylw gan yr adroddiad at nifer o wendidau yn y gyfundrefn sy’n bodoli drwy Gymru. Hoffwn eich hatgoffa ohonynt. Mae diffyg cyd-ddealltwriaeth a’r cydweithio a ddylai fod rhwng adrannau addysg a’r gwasanaethau cymdeithasol. Mae diffyg perthynas integredig â’r agenda datblygiad economaidd, ac yr wyf yn cydnabod yr hyn a ddywedodd Jane yn gynharach. Dylai addysg-ofal fod yn rhan greiddiol o bolisi economaidd eang yn hytrach na rhywbeth ymylol neu i ferched yn unig. Mae’r adroddiad am i’r Cynulliad amlygu’n glir y dylai Chwarae Teg, y WDA ac asiantaethau economaidd eraill yng Nghymru gydweithio’n nes. Dywed yr adroddiad:

in Welsh This report draws attention to many weaknesses existing in the system in Wales. I will remind you of them. There is a lack of understanding and collaboration between education departments and the social services and no integrated relationship with the economic development agenda, and I acknowledge what Jane said earlier. Edu-care should be an intrinsic component of a wide economic policy, not something on the periphery or solely for women. The report wants the Assembly to clearly show Chwarae Teg,, the WDA and other economic agencies that they should be working more closely with each other. The report states:

‘Childcare must be regarded as a central part of economic development.’

Gellid ateb y galw am gyllid cynhaliol a thymor hir o bosibl o gronfeydd strwythurol Ewropeaidd, neu, fel y dywedodd Jane yn gynharach, o’r Gronfa Cyfleoedd Newydd. Mae angen manteisio ar y rhain o ddifrif—y ‘New Opportunities Fund’.

in Welsh The need for long-term, sustainable funding could possibly be answered by the European structural funds, or as Jane said earlier, by the New Opportunities Fund, of which we need to take advantage.

Gwendid arall y dylid ei ystyried o ddifrif yw’r angen i hyrwyddo statws broffesiynol y gweithwyr gofal plant. Nid ydym yn cydnabod arbenigedd na chyfrifoldebau’r swydd hon nac ychwaith y galwadau a’r pwysau sydd ar y gweithwyr hyn. Wedi’r cyfan, mae’r rhai sydd yn gofalu am ein plant hefyd yn gofalu am ein dyfodol. Dylai eu gwaith a’r math o gyfrifoldebau sydd ganddynt gael eu cydnabod drwy well hyfforddiant, gwell amodau gwaith, gwell cefnogaeth a gwell statws cyflogaeth.

in Welsh Another weakness to be seriously considered is the need to promote the professional status of childcare workers. We do not recognise the expertise or the responsibilities of this work or the pressure on these workers. Those who care for our children also care for our future. Their work and the responsibilities that they have should be acknowledged with better training, working conditions, support and employment status.

Er bod croeso i’r strategaeth fel datganiad o fwriad a chennad, mae cryn bryder yn ei chylch am nifer o resymau. Mae ynddi duedd at agenda ‘welfare to work’; prin yw’r cyfeiriad ynddi at yr hyn sy’n llesol i blant ac nid yw’n ystyried anghenion nifer fawr o deuluoedd difreintiedig. Drwy ganolbwyntio ar y partneriaethau blynyddoedd cynnar, mae’r ffocws ar ddatblygu gwasanaeth blynyddoedd cynnar wedi ei danseilio, ac fe gollwyd y cyfle i integreiddio’r strategaeth gyda rhai eraill megis Cychwyn Cadarn. Prin yw’r sôn am anghenion plant ifanc o dan dair oed, nac am deuluoedd sydd â phlant ag anableddau.

in Welsh Though we welcome this strategy as a mission statement, there is substantial concern about it for a number of reasons. There is a tendency towards the ‘welfare to work’ agenda, hardly any mention of what is beneficial to children and it does not consider the needs of many deprived families. By focusing on the early years partnerships, the focus on developing early years education has been undermined and the opportunity of integrating the strategy with those such as Sure Start has been lost. There is hardly any mention of the needs of children under three, nor of families who have children with disabilities.

Mae’n rhaid i’r Cynulliad ymateb yn gadarnhaol ac ar fyrder i sefyllfa sydd yn gwaethygu yn hytrach nag yn gwella. Bellach mae gennym y gallu, yr ewyllys a’r grym i wneud hynny. Mae lle inni weithio’n adeiladol drwy’r Pwyllgorau. Yr wyf yn derbyn yr hyn sydd wedi’i ddweud yma ynglŷn â’r gwelliant. Mae’r ffactorau hynny bellach wedi’u hymgorffori yn y cynnig. Da o beth yw hynny, oherwydd dyna’r ffordd ymlaen. Edrychwn ymlaen at weld y Pwyllgorau Pwnc yn ystyried y maes hwn o ddifrif. Mae’r grym a’r gallu gennym yn sicr. Awn ymlaen yn hyderus a chefnogwn y cynnig.

in Welsh The Assembly must respond positively and swiftly to a situation that is deteriorating rather than improving. By now, we have the ability, the will and the power to do that. We can work constructively through the Committees. I accept what has been said as far as the amendment is concerned. Those factors have now been incorporated in the motion. That is to be commended as it is the way forward. We look forward to the Subject Committees giving this field serious consideration. We certainly have the power and the ability. Let us go forward with confidence and support the motion.

David Melding spoken in English p. 40

David Melding siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 40

I welcome this very stimulating report, which is an important contribution to the development of public policy in this area. I recommend that those Members who have not read it in depth give it careful attention. I agree with Gareth Jones, so I shall not reiterate his comprehensive remarks. However, this report is critical and its detail pins down the Government on a lot of issues. When it goes to the Committees, they will be interested in the responses of the Welsh Government to the issues raised. As in many other public policy areas, it is easy to talk big, but to deliver small: it is not an adequate way to deliver public policy.

Yr wyf yn croesawu’r adroddiad cyffrous hwn, sydd yn gyfraniad pwysig at ddatblygu polisi cyhoeddus yn y maes hwn. Yr wyf yn argymell y dylai’r Aelodau hynny sydd heb ei ddarllen yn drwyadl roi sylw manwl iddo. Cytunaf â Gareth Jones, felly nid ailadroddaf ei sylwadau cynhwysfawr. Fodd bynnag, mae’r adroddiad hwn yn feirniadol ac mae’r manylion ynddo yn hoelio’r Llywodraeth ar lawer o faterion. Pan â i’r Pwyllgorau, bydd ganddynt ddiddordeb yn atebion Llywodraeth Cymru i’r materion a godwyd. Yn yr un modd ag mewn llawer o feysydd polisi cyhoeddus eraill, hawdd yw siarad yn fawr ond cyflawni ychydig: nid yw hynny’n fodd digonol o gyflenwi polisi cyhoeddus.

The report notes that childcare in Wales is of variable quality and often of high cost, which puts it beyond the means of many in the community. Childcare is patchy and not equally available to everyone. Rural communities are often particularly disadvantaged. It is on those criteria that the Subject Committees will have to ensure that the emerging strategy is coherent. Gareth Jones rightly said that the report condemns the current strategy as incoherent and for not being a real strategy. I suppose that it is a pretend or an inadequate strategy, I am not sure what words they would agree on. However, it is pretty damning that it is dismissed as not a real strategy.

Mae’r adroddiad yn nodi bod gofal plant yng Nghymru yn amrywiol o ran ei ansawdd a’i fod yn aml yn uchel ei gost, sy’n ei roi y tu hwnt i fodd llawer yn y gymuned. Mae gofal plant yn wasgarog ac nid yw ar gael i bawb i’r un graddau. Bydd cymunedau gwledig o dan anfantais arbennig yn aml. Y meini prawf hynny yw’r rhai y bydd y Pwyllgorau Pwnc yn eu defnyddio i sicrhau bod y strategaeth yn datblygu mewn modd cydlynol. Yr oedd Gareth Jones yn iawn wrth ddweud bod yr adroddiad â’i lach ar y strategaeth gyfredol am nad yw’n gydlynol ac am nad yw’n strategaeth wirioneddol. Tybiwn ei bod yn ffug strategaeth neu’n un annigonol: nid wyf yn sicr ar ba eiriau y byddent yn cytuno. Fodd bynnag, eithaf damniol yw ei hwfftio am beidio â bod yn wir strategaeth.

I want to spend some time on the positive items. There is much to be commended in the approach of the Select Committee on Welsh Affairs. Its evidence was extensive and it obviously had an interesting trip to Denmark. Many of the observations are worthy of repetition in the Committee, but we must be cautious about such policies as allowing young children to sleep outdoors in temperatures of up to minus 12 degrees Celsius. That would be overly stimulating for small children. That apart, Denmark was obviously instructive in the way it runs a comprehensive childcare strategy. Parents need real choices. It is pointless having a glitzy document if it does not lead to action and effective response. Childcare has to be affordable because if we have wonderful childcare that is beyond the means of most people, it is an inadequate response for them. Childcare must be of high quality and available comprehensively but that is usually costly and is a difficult challenge for us. It means looking very carefully at resources.

Yr wyf am dreulio ychydig amser ar yr eitemau cadarnhaol. Mae llawer i’w ganmol yn null gweithredu’r Pwyllgor Dethol ar Faterion Cymreig. Yr oedd ei dystiolaeth yn helaeth ac yr oedd yn amlwg iddo gael taith ddiddorol i Ddenmarc. Mae llawer o’r sylwadau’n deilwng o’u hailadrodd yn y Pwyllgor, ond rhaid inni fod yn ofalus ynghylch polisïau fel caniatáu i blant ifanc gysgu y tu allan mewn tymereddau hyd at finws 12 gradd Celsius. Byddai hynny’n rhy gynhyrfiol i blant bychain. Ar wahân i hynny, yr oedd yn amlwg bod Denmarc yn addysgiadol o ran y ffordd y mae’n rhedeg strategaeth gofal plant gynhwysfawr. Mae angen dewisiadau gwirioneddol ar rieni. Nid oes diben cael dogfen sgleiniog os nad yw’n arwain at weithredu ac ymateb effeithiol. Rhaid i ofal plant fod yn fforddiadwy oherwydd os bydd gennym ofal plant ardderchog nad yw’r rhan fwyaf o bobl yn gallu ei fforddio, ni fydd yn ymateb annigonol ar eu cyfer hwy. Rhaid i ofal plant fod o ansawdd uchel a bod ar gael yn gyffredinol ond mae hynny fel arfer yn gostus ac mae’n sialens anodd i ni. Mae’n golygu edrych yn ofalus iawn ar adnoddau.

Effective regulation is also vital and there are real challenges ahead on that. One of the contradictions in the document is that it condemns over-regulation but says that quality has to be maintained and that the faith of parents and other people must be backed up so that they are confident about using the facilities available. Regulation is a key issue. We need to emphasise the informal childcare sector. Over half of childcare is provided informally. Those of you who have children—I am not in that category—know that, as in my family, relatives, close friends and parents share the childcare. We must realise that this is an important sector. Its regulation is very difficult and if it is over-regulated, or if we try to impose regulation on it, there could be problems in its provision. Providing flexible arrangements that allow informal child carers to train will have to be done with skill.

Mae rheoleiddio effeithiol yn hanfodol hefyd ac mae sialensau gwirioneddol o’n blaen yn hynny o beth. Un o’r croesddywediadau yn y ddogfen yw ei bod yn condemnio gor-reoleiddio ond ei bod yn dweud bod rhaid cynnal ansawdd a bod rhaid cefnogi ymddiriedaeth y rhieni a phobl eraill fel eu bod yn hyderus ynghylch defnyddio’r cyfleusterau sydd ar gael. Rheoleiddio yw’r mater allweddol. Mae angen inni bwysleisio’r sector gofal plant anffurfiol. Darperir dros hanner y gofal plant yn anffurfiol. Bydd y rhai ohonoch sydd â phlant—ac nid wyf yn y categori hwnnw—yn gwybod, fel yn achos fy nheulu i, fod perthnasau, ffrindiau agos a rhieni yn rhannu’r gofal am blant. Rhaid inni sylwedoli bod hwn yn sector pwysig. Anodd yw ei reoleiddio ac os caiff ei or-reoleiddio, neu os ceisiwn orfodi rheoleiddio arno, fe ellid cael problemau wrth ei ddarparu. Bydd raid bod yn ddeheuig iawn wrth ddarparu trefniadau hyblyg sy’n gadael i warchodwyr plant anffurfiol ddilyn hyfforddiant.

The report stresses that regulation is often inconsistent. It also says that the present system is unfair and particularly disadvantages the voluntary sector, whilst children in schools suffer from lower standards. We must consider that because the voluntary sector is often at the cutting edge and has led the way in informal care. We need to encourage that. We have heard about the movement to provide childcare through the medium of Welsh.

Mae’r adroddiad yn pwysleisio bod rheoleiddio yn anghyson mewn llawer achos. Fe ddywed hefyd fod y system bresennol yn annheg ac yn rhoi’r sector gwirfoddol dan anfantais arbennig, tra bydd plant yn yr ysgolion yn dioddef safonau is. Bydd raid inni ystyried hynny oherwydd mae’r sector gwirfoddol yn aml yn torri cwys newydd ac wedi arwain y ffordd mewn gofal anffurfiol. Rhaid inni roi anogaeth i hynny. Fe glywsom am y mudiad i ddarparu gofal plant drwy gyfrwng y Gymraeg.

I add my support to the remarks that we need to address the care needs of disabled children and children with special educational needs. I am chairman of governors of a school for children with special educational needs. This area is often overlooked and parents often feel isolated. From the point of view of social inclusion, which we have been examining, it is important that these people are adequately supported and that such children are given the best care available.

Yr wyf yn ategu’r sylwadau bod angen inni ymdrin ag anghenion gofal plant anabl a phlant ag anghenion addysgol arbennig. Yr wyf yn gadeirydd ar lywodraethwyr ysgol i blant ag anghenion addysgol arbennig. Mae’r maes hwn yn un a gaiff ei anghofio’n aml a bydd y rhieni yn teimlo’n aml eu bod wedi eu hynysu. O safbwynt cynhwysiant cymdeithasol, y buom yn ei drafod, mae’n bwysig bod y bobl hyn yn derbyn cefnogaeth ddigonol a bod plant o’r fath yn cael y gofal gorau sydd ar gael.

There have been many remarks about encouraging employers to be family friendly. This must be comprehensive: it is not only childcare but goes across the social care spectrum. There is great merit in encouraging large companies, and, hopefully, the whole employment sector, to have policies that support their workforce and encourage the development and retention of skills. Part of that can be achieved by providing good quality childcare and access to it. The Assembly could set an example and take a lead. It is good for the economy, the development of which has been staggering over the last 20 years. Over the next 20 or 30 years, the number of people in employment who will want to develop their skills or return to employment will increase; it already has. We have been liberated from the old view that the man is the breadwinner. It is now most people’s aspiration to enjoy a long working life. I do not think that will change. It is important that we remember that. This area will be central to future public policy.

Cafwyd llawer o sylwadau am annog cyflogwyr i fod yn gefnogol i deuluoedd. Rhaid i hyn fod yn rhywbeth cyffredinol: nid gofal plant yn unig ydyw ond yr holl ystod o ofal cymdeithasol. Mae rhinweddau mawr mewn annog cwmnïau mawr, a, gobeithio, yr holl sector cyflogaeth, i feddu ar bolisïau sy’n cefnogi eu gweithlu ac yn eu hannog i ddatblygu a chadw medrau. Gellir cyflawni rhan o hynny drwy ddarparu gofal plant o ansawdd da a mynediad ato. Gallai’r Cynulliad roi esiampl ac arweiniad. Mae er lles yr economi, y gwelwyd datblygu syfrdanol ynddo dros yr 20 mlynedd diwethaf. Dros yr 20 neu 30 mlynedd nesaf, bydd cynnydd yn nifer o bobl mewn cyflogaeth sydd am ddatblygu eu medrau ac yn nifer y rhai sydd am ddychwelyd i weithio; gwelwyd hynny eisoes. Yr ydym wedi’n rhyddhau o’r hen syniad mai’r dyn yw’r enillydd cyflog. Dyhead y rhan fwyaf o bobl bellach yw mwynhau oes hir mewn gwaith. Ni chredaf y bydd hynny’n newid. Mae’n bwysig inni gofio hynny. Bydd y maes hwn yn ganolog i bolisi cyhoeddus yn y dyfodol.

I conclude with a few critical remarks because sometimes we lose bite in this Chamber. I am not being completely dismissive of the Government; it is only now developing this strategy and may want to respond to my concerns, take them to Committee and address them properly. However, some of the report’s conclusions are remarkable. The report says:

Terfynaf drwy roi ychydig o sylwadau beirniadol oherwydd weithiau bydd diffyg awch yn y Siambr hon. Nid wyf yn wfftio’n llwyr at y Llywodraeth; newydd ddechrau datblygu’r strategaeth hon y mae ac efallai y bydd am ymateb i’m pryderon, a mynd â hwy i Bwyllgor a’u trafod yn iawn. Fodd bynnag, mae rhai o gasgliadau’r adroddiad yn hynod. Fe ddywed yr adroddiad:

‘Little can be achieved without a substantial injection of new money.’

One criticism of this Government is the repackaging and talking up that it does. That raises expectations and is not the best way to achieve public objectives unless you mean it and are going to follow up with the resources required. Jane referred to the New Opportunities Fund; the report is very critical in this case. It says that unrealistic targets for provision of childcare places have been set and states:

Un feirniadaeth ar y Llywodraeth hon yw’r ailbecynnu a’r ormodiaith a geir ganddi. Mae hynny’n codi disgwyliadau ac nid honno yw’r ffordd orau i gyflawni amcanion cyhoeddus onid ydych o ddifrif ac am roi’r adnoddau angenrheidiol wedyn. Cyfeiriodd Jane at y Gronfa Cyfleoedd Newydd; mae’r adroddiad yn feirniadol iawn yn yr achos hwn. Dywed fod targedau anymarferol wedi eu gosod ar gyfer darparu lleoedd mewn gofal plant ac mae’n datgan:

‘The target of childcare places which the NOF has been set for Wales is unrealistically high.’

This Government can be criticised for setting targets that other people are supposed to achieve and not providing those people with the resources to achieve them. We welcome the development of childcare and the provision of a broad range of options. Parents want that. We welcome the support of those who are giving childcare informally but we want it to be safe and effective and to ensure that children are always protected to the maximum. However, we recognise that this area of public policy needs attention. It is good for the individuals, the children and our economic prospects. We support the motion, as amended.

Gellir beirniadu’r Llywodraeth hon am osod targedau sydd i’w cyflawni gan bobl eraill a pheidio â rhoi’r adnoddau y mae ar y bobl hynny eu hangen er mwyn eu cyflawni. Yr ydym yn croesawu datblygu gofal plant a darparu amrediad eang o ddewisiadau. Mae rhieni am gael hynny. Yr ydym yn croesawu cefnogaeth y rhai sy’n darparu gofal plant yn anffurfiol ond yr ydym am i hynny fod yn ddiogel ac yn effeithiol a sicrhau bod plant wedi eu diogelu i’r graddau mwyaf posibl. Fodd bynnag, yr ydym yn cydnabod bod angen rhoi sylw i’r maes hwn o bolisi cyhoeddus. Mae er budd unigolion, plant a’n rhagolygon economaidd. Cefnogwn y cynnig, gyda’r gwelliant.

Val Feld spoken in English p. 44

Val Feld siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 44

I wrote notes for this debate. I planned to say that this was a major breakthrough and a leap forward for women who have campaigned for better childcare for years. I planned to welcome the fact that this has been taken as a serious issue and that for once it was not just us women speaking in this debate. Having heard the last two speakers, I am reserving judgment. The UK Government is being attacked for allowing one of its first key strategies, which has not yet been implemented in Wales, to be open to public scrutiny in order to make it better and more efficient and effective. If we are to progress in the Assembly with a spirit of openness and genuine debate, we have to be able to do that without looking to score political points where there is progress to be made. Gareth talked about how critical the report is. The purpose of the House of Commons Welsh Affairs Committee investigation was to try to tease out how to make a strategy effective for Wales. That means looking at what they think will work by talking to a range of organisations and reaching a judgment on how to make that strategy more effective.

Ysgrifennais nodiadau ar gyfer y ddadl hon. Yr oeddwn wedi bwriadu dweud bod hyn yn drobwynt mawr ac yn gam ymlaen i fenywod sydd wedi ymgyrchu ers blynyddoedd am well gofal plant. Yr oedd yn fwriad gennyf groesawu’r ffaith ei fod wedi ei dderbyn yn fater difrifol ac am unwaith y byddai rhai heblaw ni’r benywod yn siarad yn y drafodaeth hon. Ar ôl gwrando ar y ddau siaradwr diwethaf, yr wyf yn ymatal rhag datgan fy marn. Ymosodir ar Lywodraeth y DU am ganiatáu i un o’i strategaethau allweddol cyntaf, nas gweithredwyd yng Nghymru eto, fod yn agored i’w harchwilio gan y cyhoedd er mwyn ei gwneud yn well ac yn fwy effeithiol ac effeithlon. Os ydym i symud ymlaen yn y Cynulliad mewn ysbryd sy’n golygu bod yn agored a chael trafodaeth ddilys, bydd raid inni allu gwneud hynny heb geisio sgorio pwyntiau gwleidyddol lle y mae angen sicrhau cynnydd. Dywedodd Gareth fod yr adroddiad yn feirniadol. Pwrpas ymchwiliad Pwyllgor Materion Cymreig Tŷ’r Cyffredin oedd ceisio canfod sut i wneud strategaeth effeithiol i Gymru. Mae hynny’n golygu edrych ar yr hyn a allai weithio, yn eu barn hwy, drwy siarad ag amrediad o gyrff a dyfarnu ynghylch sut i wneud y strategaeth honno’n fwy effeithiol.

I heard David damn with faint praise. People like David in the Conservative Party seem to have collective amnesia about the fact that for 18 years your party did nothing about childcare. I was one of the people who argued and put forward proposals on how childcare strategies could be driven forward. At the Equal Opportunities Committee we went to great lengths to prepare detailed proposals, which were thrown out by your party. For you to come tearing in with all these criticisms after the Labour Party has only been in power for two years is a bit rich. David is generally one of the ones on our side but we have to have a historic perspective on this.

Clywais David yn glasganmol. Mae’n ymddangos bod pobl fel David yn y Blaid Geidwadol wedi cydanghofio am y ffaith na wnaeth eich plaid ddim am 18 mlynedd ynghylch gofal plant. Yr oeddwn yn un o’r rhai a gyflwynodd ddadleuon a chynigion ynghylch sut y gellid hyrwyddo strategaethau gofal plant. Yn y Pwyllgor Cyfle Cyfartal gwnaethom waith mawr i baratoi cynigion manwl, a daflwyd allan gan eich plaid chi. Braidd yn ormod yw ichi frysio i mewn â’r sylwadau beirniadol hyn a’r Blaid Lafur heb fod mewn grym ond am ddwy flynedd. Fel arfer bydd David yn un o’r rhai sydd ar eich hochr ni ond rhaid inni ystyried hyn o safbwynt hanesyddol.

However, it is an important debate and a step forward. We should see it in those terms. The political views of many women were formed in campaigning for better childcare so that we could participate in the communities, develop our potential and so that other women in low-paid jobs could have the chance to play a role and enter education and training. I am one of four Labour Assembly Members who was a member of the Welsh Office childcare working party that oversaw the development of that strategy. We encouraged the Welsh Affairs Committee to seek views about how to improve it. It is incumbent on us to pick up those comments and start looking through our new structures and powers in the Assembly.

Fodd bynnag, mae’n ddadl bwysig ac yn gam ymlaen. Dylem ei weld felly. Ffurfiwyd safbwyntiau gwleidyddol llawer o fenywod wrth ymgyrchu am well gofal plant fel y gallem gymryd rhan yn y cymunedau, datblygu ein potensial ac fel y gallai benywod eraill mewn swyddi â chyflog isel gael cyfle i chwarae rôl a derbyn addysg a hyfforddiant. Yr wyf yn un o bedwar Aelod Llafur yn y Cynulliad oedd yn aelod o weithgor gofal plant y Swyddfa Gymreig a oruchwyliodd ddatblygiad y strategaeth honno. Rhoesom anogaeth i’r Pwyllgor Materion Cymreig geisio barn am y modd i’w gwella. Mae’n ddyletswydd arnom i ystyried y sylwadau hynny a dechrau edrych drwy ein strwythurau a’n pwerau newydd yn y Cynulliad.

How can we make the Assembly work? If we do not invest in our children, we do not invest in our future or build the kind of Wales that we often talk about. Maybe we do not talk about Wales with the kind of passion The Mirror would like us to have but this is a complex business. It involves a range of different issues, players and considerations. It is a big programme for us to develop. My view, and the view of the EOC, is that we should look for a 10-year programme to take forward a plan for childcare in Wales.

Sut y gallwn wneud i’r Cynulliad weithio? Os na fuddsoddwn yn ein plant, ni fyddwn yn buddsoddi yn ein dyfodol nac yn adeiladu’r math o Gymru yr ydym wedi sôn amdani’n aml. Efallai nad ydym yn sôn am Gymru â’r math o angerdd y mae The Mirror am ei weld ond mae hyn yn fusnes cymhleth. Mae’n cynnwys amrediad o faterion, cyfranwyr ac ystyriaethau gwahanol. Mae’n rhaglen fawr i’w datblygu gennym. Fy marn i, a barn y Pwyllgor Cyfle Cyfartal, yw y dylem ystyried rhaglen 10-mlynedd i ddatblygu cynllun gofal plant i Gymru.

There are many aspects to this. I want to concentrate on the way in which we drive this forward, monitor and evaluate it and ensure that it delivers real change on the ground. That is particularly important. The Subject Committees and other organisations must work on the detail of this programme for the Assembly to ensure that we take that forward. In doing that, we must recognise the strong tradition we have in Wales of nursery education. We fought hard to hang on to that at times when the Conservatives in government wanted to take it away. It now provides an important basis on which to build the development of a broader range of childcare that meets the needs of working parents. It will meet the social needs of children in poor families who do not have the opportunity to communicate and socialise. It will also meet the educational needs. Swansea is one of the areas where we fought hard to hold on to our nursery education.

Mae llawer agwedd i hynny. Yr wyf am ganolbwyntio ar y modd y byddwn yn gyrru hyn ymlaen, yn ei monitro a’i werthuso a sicrhau ei fod yn dod â newid gwirioneddol ar lawr gwlad. Mae hynny’n arbennig o bwysig. Rhaid i’r Pwyllgorau Pwnc a chyrff eraill weithio ar fanylion y rhaglen hon dros y Cynulliad i sicrhau y byddwn yn datblygu hynny. Wrth wneud hyn, rhaid inni gydnabod o traddodiad cryf o addysg feithrin sydd gennym yng Nghymru. Bu inni ymladd yn galed i ddal gafael ar hynny pan oedd y Ceidwadwyr pan oeddent mewn Llywodraeth am fynd â hynny oddi arnom. Mae bellach yn rhoi sylfaen i ddatblygu amrediad eang o ofal plant sy’n ateb anghenion rhieni sy’n gweithio. Bydd yn cyflenwi anghenion cymdeithasol plant mewn teuluoedd tlawd sydd heb gyfle i gyfathrebu a chymdeithasu. Bydd hefyd yn cyflenwi’r anghenion addysgol. Abertawe yw un o’r ardaloedd hynny lle’r oeddem wedi ymladd yn galed i ddal gafael ar ein haddysg feithrin.

We have a fine record. I have visited a number of those fabulous schools. The focus of our local authorities was more on education and not on broader childcare. As a result, in Swansea we only have 178 childcare places for every 1,000 children. We have a great deal of work to do to integrate existing programmes, build on our experience to bring more childcare workers and ensure that they have good pay and conditions. It is women’s work and is poorly paid. We have to make real progress on that and ensure that we provide affordable, accessible and sustainable childcare so that working parents will put their children into the establishment. It must be of good quality so parents know that when their children are in the centres, they will be safe and well cared for.

Mae gennym record ardderchog. Ymwelais â nifer o’r ysgolion gwych yma. Yr oedd yr awdurdodau lleol wedi canolbwyntio’n fwy ar addysg ac nid yn ehangach ar ofal plant. O ganlyniad, yn Abertawe nid oes gennym ond 178 o leoedd mewn gofal plant i bob 1,000 o blant. Mae gennym lawer iawn o waith i’w wneud i integreiddio’r rhaglenni presennol, adeiladu ar ein profiad i sicrhau mwy o weithwyr gofal plant a sicrhau bod eu cyflog a’u hamodau’n dda. Gwaith benywod ydyw ac mae’r cyflog yn wael. Rhaid inni wneud cynnydd gwirioneddol ar hynny a sicrhau ein bod yn darparu gofal plant fforddiadwy, hygyrch a chynaliadwy fel y bydd rhieni sy’n gweithio yn rhoi eu plant yn y sefydliad. Rhaid iddo fod o ansawdd da fel y bydd rhieni’n gwybod y bydd eu plant yn ddiogel ac yn derbyn gofal da pan fyddant yn y canolfannau.

To do that, we have to bring together the local authorities and the voluntary and private sectors. I particularly want to ask Jane, and Rosemary, who has a shared responsibility for this, to look urgently at the establishment of the Wales advisory body. That would allow us to take an overview, to develop a plan and set targets, to monitor and ensure that the voluntary sector has the resources it needs to deliver the quality of service that we need. It would build a link between the different agencies.

I wneud hynny, rhaid inni ddod â’r awdurdodau lleol a’r sectorau gwirfoddol a phreifat at ei gilydd. Yn benodol, yr wyf am ofyn i Jane, a Rosemary, a rannodd y cyfrifoldeb am hyn, i roi ystyriaeth frys i sefydlu corff ymgynghorol i Gymru. Byddai hynny’n caniatáu inni gael uwcholwg, datblygu cynllun a gosod targedau, monitro a sicrhau bod gan y sector gwirfoddol yr adnoddau y mae arno eu hangen i gyflenwi’r ansawdd yr ydym am ei weld yn y gwasanaeth. Byddai’n creu cysylltiad rhwng y gwahanol asiantaethau.

As these proposals and the Welsh Affairs Select Committee report go into committee, I also want to see considered the proposal that there should be an Assembly task and finish group. That would set this programme off on the right footing and determine where in the Committees the responsibility lies. It would establish the Wales Advisory Committee so that we have a solid foundation. We are on a new path; we are just beginning to work out how to do this. It is important that we make progress, learn from the evidence given to us and start to roll out a programme that can reach across Wales.

Gan y bydd y cynigion hyn ac adroddiad y Pwyllgor Dethol ar Faterion Cymreig yn mynd i’r Pwyllgorau, yr wyf hefyd am weld ystyriaeth i’r cynnig y dylid cael grŵp gorchwyl a gorffen yn y Cynulliad. Byddai hynny’n cychwyn y rhaglen hon ar y droed iawn ac yn penderfynu ym mhle yn y pwyllgorau y mae’r cyfrifoldeb. Byddai’n sefydlu Pwyllgor Ymgynghorol Cymru fel y bydd gennym sylfaen gadarn. Yr ydym yn dilyn llwybr newydd; yr ydym newydd ddechrau darganfod sut i wneud hynny. Mae’n bwysig inni wneud cynnydd, dysgu o’r dystiolaeth a roddwyd i ni a dechrau datblygu rhaglen sy’n gallu cyrraedd pob rhan o Gymru.

Helen Mary Jones spoken in English p. 47

Helen Mary Jones siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 47

I am sorry to disappoint Val but my point is critical of the Government of Wales, of the British Government previously responsible for these matters and of the Welsh Office. I do so in the spirit to which Alun Michael has frequently referred. A spirit of partnership and co-working is not necessarily cosy and does not always mean that we agree with one another. I take Val’s point that those of us who have worked together outside this Chamber and in another place, though not in that other place, want to continue in that spirit of co-operation and co-working.

Mae’n ddrwg gennyf siomi Val ond mae’r pwynt sydd gennyf yn feirniadol o Lywodraeth Cymru, o Lywodraeth Prydain a fu’n gyfrifol cynt am y materion hyn ac o’r Swyddfa Gymreig. Yr wyf yn gwneud hynny yn yr ysbryd y cyfeiriodd Alun Michael ato’n aml. Nid yw ysbryd o bartneriaeth a chydweithio o reidrwydd yn un cysurus ac nid yw bob amser yn golygu ein bod yn cytuno â’n gilydd. Yr wyf yn derbyn pwynt Val bod y rhai ohonom a weithiodd gyda’i gilydd y tu allan i’r Siambr hon ac mewn lle arall, ond nid yn y lle arall hwnnw, am barhau â’r ysbryd hwnnw o gydweithio a chydweithredu.

I refer Jane and the Government to paragraph 63 of the Welsh Affairs Committee’s third report:

Yr wyf yn tynnu sylw Jane a’r Llywodraeth at baragraff 63 yn nhrydydd adroddiad y Pwyllgor Materion Cymreig:

‘In our view it is important that the National Assembly should set a good example as an employer in respect of childcare.’

The report also states:

Mae’r adroddiad hefyd yn dweud:

‘It is regrettable that a crèche has not been provided for the National Assembly at Crickhowell House. The Minister argued—’

that must have been Alun, or possibly not—

rhaid mai Alun oedd hwnnw, neu efallai ddim—

‘that it was hard to know what the childcare needs of the Assembly Members would be in advance of their election, and that it should be for the Assembly to decide what resources to put into childcare. Sadly, childcare is still regarded, even by the Welsh Office, as an optional extra.’

In bold type, we have the recommendation:

Mewn teip drwm, cawn yr argymhelliad hwn:

‘We hope that the National Assembly will demonstrate its commitment to childcare by making immediate childcare arrangements in Cardiff Bay for Members, staff and visitors to the Assembly, and by integrating a childcare service in the plans for the new Assembly building.’

I understand from the answer to another Member’s question, that the First Secretary has said that one Member expressed childcare needs in response to a questionnaire. I have a few comments on that. I ask Jane to check whether this was the Information Technology questionnaire that also contained questions about childcare. The IT service told me that prior to the election it received just six replies to the questionnaire. Two of the people who were replied were then not elected. If that is the basis on which we say that Assembly Members have no childcare needs, then it would be interesting to look again at the current situation.

Yr wyf yn deall o ateb i gwestiwn Aelod arall, i’r Prif Ysgrifennydd ddweud mai un Aelod oedd wedi datgan anghenion gofal plant mewn ateb i holiadur. Mae gennyf ychydig o sylwadau i’w gwneud ar hynny. Yr wyf yn gofyn i Jane wirio ai’r holiadur Technoleg Gwybodaeth oedd hwn, a oedd hefyd yn cynnwys cwestiynau am ofal plant. Fe ddywedodd y gwasanaeth TG wrthyf nad oedd ond wedi derbyn chwe ateb i’r holiadur cyn yr etholiad. Ni etholwyd dau o’r rhai a atebodd yr holiadur. Os mai honno yw’r sail dros ddweud nad oes gan Aelodau’r Cynulliad unrhyw anghenion gofal plant, byddai’n ddiddorol ailedrych ar y sefyllfa bresennol.

Childcare is not only an issue for Assembly Members but for our staff. I am aware that many of the people who work in this building have young families. They are frequently asked to work an hour, or half an hour, overtime. That is difficult to do if your childcare arrangements are outside of the building. However, if we had childcare arrangements, it might be possible to make special provision for that; not that I want to see our staff, or us, working all hours of the day and night.

Nid yw gofal plant yn fater i Aelodau’r Cynulliad yn unig ond i’n staff hefyd. Yr wyf yn ymwybodol bod teuluoedd ifanc gan lawer o’r rhai sy’n gweithio yn yr adeilad hwn. Fe ofynnir yn aml iddynt weithio awr, neu hanner awr, yn ychwanegol. Anodd yw gwneud hynny os yw’ch trefniadau gofal plant y tu allan i’r adeilad. Fodd bynnag, pe bai gennym ni drefniadau gofal plant, fe allai fod yn bosibl gwneud darpariaeth arbennig ar gyfer hynny; nid fy mod am weld ein staff, na ninnau chwaith, yn gweithio bob awr o’r dydd a’r nos.

There is also the issue of visitors. This morning I happened to be in the foyer as a group of families with young children came to present a petition. I believe they came to speak to Jane about health care provision. They could not get the pushchair through the revolving door and we had to unlock a special door for them. There was nowhere for the children to play and not even anywhere where the mothers could change nappies. My Party does not usually quote the Bible, but I am concerned that in this debate we are taking a splinter out of other people’s eyes when we still have an enormous beam in our own. I invite the Government of Wales to address this as a matter of urgency.

Dyna fater ymwelwyr hefyd. Fore heddiw yr oeddwn yn digwydd bod yn y cyntedd pan ddaeth grŵp o deuluoedd â phlant ifanc i gyflwyno deiseb. Yr wyf yn credu iddynt ddod i siarad â Jane ynghylch y ddarpariaeth o ofal iechyd. Nid oeddent yn gallu dod â’r goetsh gadair drwy’r drws troi ac yr oedd rhaid inni ddatgloi drws arbennig iddynt. Nid oedd unlle i’r plant chwarae nac unlle lle y gallai’r mamau newid clytiau hyd yn oed. Ni fydd y rhai yn fy Mhlaid i yn dyfynnu o’r Beibl fel arfer, ond yr wyf yn bryderus yn y ddadl hon ein bod yn ceisio symud brycheuyn o lygaid pobl eraill a ninnau â thrawst anferth yn ein llygaid ein hunain. Gwahoddaf Lywodraeth Cymru i ymdrin â hyn fel mater o frys.

It may be too late to have a childcare facility in this building due to pressure of space. It may also be too late to have a facility for older children and all the things which colleagues who were in the National Assembly Advisory Group talked about. I remind those colleagues and the Government that the commitment to childcare, providing it was not too expensive, was not objected to in any of NAAG’s public consultations. It received very wide support. If it is not possible for us to make provision in this building, then we must have space for children in our new building. In the short term, it cannot be beyond the inventiveness of this Assembly and Government to ensure that the next time I meet someone who needs to change a nappy in this building, I do not have to take them to my office to do it.

Hwyrach ei bod yn rhy hwyr i gael cyfleuster gofal plant yn yr adeilad hwn oherwydd y cyfyngiadau ar ofod. Efallai hefyd ei bod yn rhy hwyr i gael cyfleuster ar gyfer plant hŷn a’r holl bethau yr oedd ein cyd-weithwyr yng Ngrŵp Ymgynghorol y Cynulliad Cenedlaethol wedi eu trafod. Yr wyf yn atgoffa’r cyd-weithwyr hynny a’r Llywodraeth nad oedd gwrthwynebiad i’r ymrwymiad at ofal plant, ar yr amod nad oedd yn rhy ddrud, yn yr un o ymgynghoriadau cyhoeddus Grŵp Ymgynghorol y Cynulliad Cenedlaethol. Rhoddwyd cefnogaeth eang iawn iddo. Os nad oes modd inni wneud darpariaeth yn yr adeilad hwn, yna rhaid inni gael lle ar gyfer plant yn ein hadeilad newydd. Yn y tymor byr, ni allai fod y tu hwnt i ddyfeisgarwch y Cynulliad a’r Llywodraeth i sicrhau, y tro nesaf y byddaf yn cwrdd â rhywun sydd am newid clwt yn yr adeilad hwn, na fydd raid ei hebrwng i’m swyddfa i wneud hynny.

Gwenda Thomas siaradwyd yn Gymraeg ac yn Saesneg t. 50

Gwenda Thomas spoken in Welsh and English p. 50

Diolch Mr Llywydd am y cyfle i gyfrannu i’r ddadl bwysig hon. Mae’n bleser gennyf gefnogi’r cynnig.

in Welsh Thank you Mr Llywydd for the opportunity of contributing to this important motion. I am glad to support the motion.

However, I make the following points. Any childcare strategy must not expose children to the risk of abuse. I believe that all formal childcare provision should be registered. Indeed, this is a statutory obligation at the moment. As an Assembly, we must never consider proposals to do away with the requirement to register, even for short-term care schemes such as holiday play schemes. The previous Government proposed relaxing the requirement for the registration of short-term schemes but those proposals were quickly shelved in the aftermath of the Dunblane tragedy. Those proposals must never see the light of day again. Registration must remain as a main means of protecting children.

yn Saesneg Fodd bynnag, yr wyf am wneud y pwyntiau canlynol. Mae’n hanfodol na fydd unrhyw strategaeth gofal plant yn peri bod plant yn agored i’r risg o gamdriniaeth. Credaf y dylid cofrestru pob darpariaeth gofal plant ffurfiol. Yn wir, mae hyn yn rhwymedigaeth statudol ar hyn o bryd. Fel Cynulliad, ni ddylem byth ystyried cynigion i gael gwared ar y gofyniad i gofrestru, hyd yn oed yn achos cynlluniau gofal tymor-byr fel cynlluniau chwarae dros y gwyliau. Yr oedd y Llywodraeth flaenorol wedi bwriadu llacio’r gofyniad i gofrestru cynlluniau tymor-byr ond rhoddwyd y cynigion hynny o’r neilltu’n fuan iawn yn sgil trychineb Dunblane. Ni ddylai’r cynigion hynny byth weld golau dydd eto. Rhaid i gofrestru aros yn brif ddull i ddiogelu plant

I welcome the recommendation in the Welsh Affairs Committee’s report that extension of eligibility for the childcare tax credit to informal, but verifiable, childcare arrangements be supported. I believe that the value of extended family support must never be underestimated. The contribution of grandparents—and here I declare an interest—aunts and uncles and even, in some cases, great grandparents, must be acknowledged and valued. A child will often want to be cared for within a loving family relationship and the wishes of the child must be of paramount importance. Strong family link services can often establish quality care within families and can result in the building of supportive long-term relationships for the child.

yn Saesneg Yr wyf yn cefnogi’r argymhelliad yn adroddiad y Pwyllgor Materion Cymreig y dylid cefnogi ymestyn y cymhwyster i dderbyn y credyd treth ar gyfer gofal plant i drefniadau gofal plant anffurfiol, ond gwiriadwy. Credaf na ddylid byth danbrisio gwerth cefnogaeth y teulu estynedig. Rhaid cydnabod a gwerthfawrogi cyfraniad neiniau a theidiau—ac yr wyf yn datgan diddordeb yma—a modrabedd ac ewythredd a hyd yn oed, mewn rhai achosion, hen neiniau a hen deidiau. Bydd plentyn yn aml yn dymuno derbyn gofal o fewn perthynas deuluol gariadus a rhaid rhoi’r pwys mwyaf un ar ddymuniadau’r plentyn. Yn aml bydd gwasanaethau cysylltiadau teuluol cryf yn gallu sefydlu gofal o ansawdd da o fewn teuluoedd a gall arwain at adeiladu cydberthynasau tymor-hir cefnogol i’r plentyn.

I also support the Sure Start initiative. Any childcare strategy must identify children in need. Through the Assembly, a long-term resourced discrete focus on services for children in need at a national level is needed. That should be linked to local government structures and there must be clear identification of lead officers, with oversight of provision for children in need. That would facilitate effective partnership working. Not to be able to offer safe and affordable childcare to the most deprived families would result in their children becoming even more marginalised.

yn Saesneg Yr wyf hefyd yn cefnogi’r cynllun Cychwyn Cadarn. Rhaid i unrhyw strategaeth gofal plant ddynodi plant sydd mewn angen. Drwy’r Cynulliad, mae angen ffocws neilltuol tymor-hir ag adnoddau ar wasanaethau i blant mewn angen ar lefel genedlaethol. Dylid cysylltu hynny â strwythurau llywodraeth leol a rhaid dynodi’r swyddogion arweiniol yn eglur, gyda goruchwyliaeth ar y ddarpariaeth i blant mewn angen. Byddai hynny’n hwyluso gweithio effeithiol drwy bartneriaeth. Os na chynigir gofal plant diogel a fforddiadwy i’r teuluoedd mwyaf difreintiedig bydd eu plant yn cael eu gwthio fwyfwy i’r ymylon.

In conclusion, I call on this Assembly to show its commitment to the welfare and well-being of children by agreeing to debate in detail, and to consider adopting, the principles of the United Nations convention on the rights of the child.

yn Saesneg I derfynu, galwaf ar y Cynulliad hwn i ddangos ei ymrwymiad at les a ffyniant plant drwy gytuno i drafod yn fanwl egwyddorion cytundeb y Cenhedloedd Unedig ar hawliau’r plentyn, ac i ystyried eu mabwysiadu.

Nick Bourne spoken in English p. 51

Nick Bourne siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 51

I have a general comment about the document, which I only received this morning. That is not meant in any partisan way. We have all had difficulties receiving documents and information on the internet and intranet. This is just the latest example. I had hoped to read it over the weekend but that was not possible so I have not been able to study it in detail.

Mae gennyf sylw cyffredinol am y ddogfen, nad oeddwn wedi ei derbyn tan fore heddiw. Nid wyf yn golygu i hynny fod yn bleidiol. Yr ydym oll wedi profi anawsterau wrth dderbyn dogfennau a gwybodaeth ar y rhyngrwyd a’r fewnrwyd. Yr enghraifft ddiweddaraf yw hyn. Yr oeddwn wedi gobeithio ei darllen dros y penwythnos ond ni fu modd gwneud hynny felly nid wyf wedi gallu ei hastudio’n fanwl.

If I could say to Val, who is a fellow member of the Swansea mafia and taffia, that every time somebody makes a perfectly cogent comment, you must not suggest that it is a dreadful partisan onslaught just because they are from Plaid Cymru or the Conservatives. The record will show that you made equally partisan comments and some very valid points that might otherwise be lost because of wild hyperbole in criticising political opponents.

Hoffwn ddweud wrth Val, sydd yn gyd-aelod o maffia a taffia Abertawe, na ddylech awgrymu, bob tro y bydd rhywun yn gwneud sylw cwbl argyhoeddiadol, fod hynny’n ymosodiad pleidiol ofnadwy dim ond am eu bod gan Blaid Cymru neu’r Ceidwadwyr. Bydd y cofnod yn dangos eich bod wedi gwneud sylwadau sydd yr un mor bleidiol yn ogystal â rhai pwyntiau dilys iawn a allai fynd ar goll oherwydd gormodiaith wyllt wrth feirniadu gwrthwynebwyr gwleidyddol.

I give the document in general a warm welcome. Comments have been made that the key problem is going to be one of resources. I am concerned about two areas of the report that have been touched upon. Disabled children and the needs of rural Wales deserve highlighting. I would like to deal with an area that perhaps has not been focused on, which is the role of police checks in looking at potential staff. That is crucial. The report makes the valid point that the practice is not consistent. Very often it is taking too long and there is not a consistent approach. We have to look at resourcing. Police numbers have been going down. In Dyfed Powys, they have decreased since the General Election. These things do not help and police checks need to be conducted. The key is the protection of children. That is of vital importance. We need to ensure that resources are available.

Yr wyf yn rhoi derbyniad gwresog i’r ddogfen hon at ei gilydd. Fe ddywedwyd mai’r broblem allweddol fydd adnoddau. Yr wyf yn bryderus ynghylch dau faes yn yr adroddiad y cyffyrddwyd â hwy. Dylid tynnu sylw at anghenion plant anabl ac anghenion y Gymru wledig. Hoffwn ddelio â maes sydd efallai heb dderbyn sylw, sef rôl gwiriadau’r heddlu wrth ystyried staff posibl. Mae hyn yn hollbwysig. Mae’r adroddiad yn gwneud y pwynt dilys nad yw’r ymarfer yn gyson. Bydd yn cyrmyd gormod o amser yn aml iawn ac nid oes dull gweithredu cyson. Rhaid inni ystyried adnoddau. Bu gostyngiad yn nifer yr heddweision. Yn Nyfed Powys, bu gostyngiad ers yr Etholiad Cyffredinol. Nid yw’r pethau hyn o gymorth ac mae angen cynnal gwiriadau gan yr heddlu. Yr allwedd yw diogelu plant. Mae hynny o bwys hanfodol. Rhaid inni sicrhau bod adnoddau ar gael.

I would also like to support the idea of a Children’s Commissioner in Wales. We as Conservatives support the idea very much. David Melding referred to the experience gleaned from Scandinavia in underlining the importance of a children’s ombudsman. We welcome the report but have some reservations, which are highlighted in the report. The only way that we can progress and look at the system’s failings is by listening to people who have examined the subject in detail. We should make no apologies for highlighting areas that could be improved upon. Subject to those points and the fact that I have not had an opportunity to look at the report in detail, we welcome it.

Hoffwn hefyd gefnogi’r syniad o gael Comisiynydd Plant yng Nghymru. Yr ydym ni fel Ceidwadwyr yn cefnogi’r syniad yn fawr iawn. Cyfeiriodd David Melding at y profiad a gafodd ei gywain yng ngwledydd Llychlyn wrth danlinellu pwysigrwydd cael ombwdsman plant. Yr ydym yn croesawu’r adroddiad ond mae gennym rai amheuon, y tynnir sylw atynt yn yr adroddiad. Yr unig ffordd y gallwn symud ymlaen ac ystyried diffygion y system yw drwy wrando ar bobl a astudiodd y pwnc yn fanwl. Ni ddylem ymddiheuro am dynnu sylw at feysydd y gellid eu gwella. Yn amodol ar y pwyntiau hynny a’r ffaith na chefais gyfle i edrych ar yr adroddiad yn fanwl, yr ydym yn ei groesawu.

Jane Davidson spoken in English p. 52

Jane Davidson siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 52

I speak as the third member of the gang of four who contributed towards the national childcare strategy and also as somebody who gave evidence to the childcare Select Committee. I am not proposing to go over my evidence because it takes 20 pages of the report. I would like to focus on an issue that has not yet come up in the debate, which is looking at childcare strategy in a context of a strategic debate about children. It is crucial and is one of the reasons that the Select Committee talked about the strategy not being complete. When giving evidence to the Select Committee, we talked about it and welcomed it as a programme rather than a strategy. All of us would like to see, as Jane Hutt said when she introduced the motion, that when it goes to Committee, it goes to all Committees because every aspect of this Assembly’s business is relevant to children. We need to see children as a client group for all our services.

Yr wyf yn siarad fel y trydydd aelod o’r gang o bedwar a gyfrannodd at y strategaeth gofal plant genedlaethol a hefyd fel un a roddodd dystiolaeth ar ofal plant i’r Pwyllgor Dethol. Nid wyf yn bwriadu mynd drwy fy nhystiolaeth oherwydd mae’n 20 tudalen o hyd yn yr adroddiad. Hoffwn ganolbwyntio ar fater nad yw wedi codi eto yn y ddadl, sydd yn ystyried strategaeth gofal plant yng nghyd-destun dadl strategol am blant. Mae’n hanfodol ac yn un o’r rhesymau pam y cyfeiriodd y Pwyllgor Dethol at y strategaeth fel un anghyflawn. Wrth roi tystiolaeth i’r Pwyllgor Dethol, yr oeddem yn ei thrafod ac yn ei chroesawu fel rhaglen yn hytrach nag fel strategaeth. Byddai pob un ohonom am ei gweld yn mynd i’r holl Bwyllgorau pan gaiff ei chyfeirio i’w thrafod, fel y dywedodd Jane Hutt wrth gyflwyno’r cynnig, oherwydd mae pob agwedd ar fusnes y Cynulliad yn berthnasol i blant. Mae angen inni weld plant fel grŵp clientiaid i’n holl wasanaethau.

Local government, social services departments, education departments and leisure departments have always played a key role in looking at issues of childcare and children. However, I have always been concerned that childcare and children have not been at the forefront of the thinking of economic development departments in local government. It is important that we do not only look at childcare on a macro level, as we are doing in terms of the economic growth in the motion. We must look at it on a micro level and look at the way all services contribute towards that debate.

Mae llywodraeth leol, adrannau gwasanaethau cymdeithasol, adrannau addysg ac adrannau hamdden wedi chwarae rôl allweddol bob amser wrth ystyried materion gofal plant a phlant. Fodd bynnag, yr wyf yn bryderus erioed nad yw gofal plant a phlant ar flaen meddwl yr adrannau datblygu economaidd mewn llywodraeth leol. Mae’n bwysig nad ydym ond yn edrych ar ofal plant ar lefel macro, fel yr ydym yn gwneud mewn perthynas â chynnydd economaidd yn y cynnig. Rhaid inni edrych arno ar lefel micro ac ystyried y modd y mae’r holl wasanaethau’n cyfrannu at y ddadl honno.

In light of that, I welcome Government initiatives that have been referred to in this Chamber today. They include the Sure Start initiative that looks at children, particularly in deprived areas. There is also the Quality Protect initiative, which is going to act as a safeguard for children, the out of school learning initiative and now, the childcare initiative. Through a holistic approach to children we must ensure that these initiatives cross-fertilise. This is a point that has already been made today. We must have an approach to all children’s services, which is focused on promoting children’s physical, social, emotional and intellectual development. We must emphasise aspects of quality, promote child protection and welfare, and work towards the integration of education and childcare provision so that our childcare provision meets the needs of children.

Yng ngoleuni hynny, yr wyf yn croesawu cynlluniau’r Llywodraeth y cyfeiriwyd atynt yn y Siambr hon heddiw. Yn eu plith y mae’r cynllun Cychwyn Cadarn sy’n rhoi sylw i blant, yn enwedig mewn ardaloedd difreintiedig. Hefyd ceir y cynllun Quality Protect, a fydd yn gweithredu fel modd i ddiogelu plant, y cynllun dysgu y tu allan i’r ysgol ac yn awr, y cynllun gofal plant. Drwy ymagwedd gyfannol at blant rhaid inni sicrhau bod y cynlluniau hynny’n croesffrwythlonni ei gilydd. Mae hwn yn bwynt a wnaed eisoes heddiw. Rhaid inni gael dull gweithredu ynghylch yr holl wasanaethau i blant, sy’n canolbwyntio ar hybu datblygiad corfforol, cymdeithasol, emosiynol a deallusol y plant. Rhaid inni bwysleisio agweddau ar ansawdd, hybu diogelwch a lles plant, ac ymdrechu i integreiddio’r ddarpariaeth addysg a gofal plant fel bod ein darpariaeth gofal plant yn cyflawni anghenion y plant.

A great deal has been said today about the cost of childcare. I am a parent who, like Jane, has struggled with just about every form of childcare. It is true that childcare is expensive. We need to ensure there is sufficient money for the target group to benefit from an overall childcare strategy. Families caught in the poverty trap are a particular group who must have help with childcare costs, and we must recognise their needs. We must also recognise the needs of parents who live in rural areas with long distances to travel to access childcare, and young teenage parents who are still in school. We should consider families where a parent is mentally, physically, chronically sick or disabled, or a drug or alcohol user, parents with multiple births and children with disabilities. When considering schools development in Wales, a particular issue for the Assembly is to provide better opportunities for students at further education colleges and universities in order to encourage young people back into learning. We also need to consider parents who work unsociable hours because childcare facilities outside usual office hours are greatly reduced. In fact, one of the few places you can get it is in the health service and that has never taken account of late or night shifts.

Fe ddywedwyd llawer heddiw am gost gofal plant. Fel Jane, yr wyf yn rhiant sydd wedi ymgodymu â bron bob math o ofal plant. Mae’n wir bod gofal plant yn ddrud. Rhaid inni sicrhau bod digon o arian fel bod modd i’r grŵp targed elwa ar strategaeth gofal plant gyffredinol. Mae teuluoedd a ddaliwyd yn y trap tlodi yn grŵp arbennig y bydd raid rhoi cymorth iddynt gyda chostau gofal plant, a rhaid inni gydnabod eu hanghenion. Rhaid inni hefyd gydnabod anghenion rhieni sy’n byw mewn ardaloedd gwledig sydd yn gorfod teithio’n bell i gael mynediad i ofal plant, a rhieni yn eu harddegau sydd yn dal yn yr ysgol. Dylem ystyried teuluoedd lle y mae rhiant â salwch meddwl, salwch corfforol neu dymor-hir neu’n anabl, neu’n ddefnyddiwr cyffuriau neu alcohol, rhieni â genedigaethau lluosog a phlant ag anableddau. Wrth ystyried datblygu ysgolion yng Nghymru, un mater arbennig i’r Cynulliad yw darparu cyfleoedd gwell i fyfyrwyr mewn colegau addysg bellach a phrifysgolion er mwyn annog pobl ifanc i ddychwelyd i ddysgu. Mae angen inni hefyd ystyried rhieni sy’n gweithio oriau anghymdeithasol oherwydd mae llawer llai o gyfleusterau gofal plant y tu allan i’r oriau swyddfa arferol. Mewn gwirionedd, un o’r ychydig leoedd y gallwch gael hynny yw yn y gwasanaeth iechyd ac nid yw hwnnw erioed wedi cymryd stemiau hwyr neu stemiau nos i ystyriaeth.

Therefore we must look holistically at how we tackle the childcare needs of people in Wales. In doing so we must not forget the point that has been made today. In many cases the preference in childcare is for a family member to undertake it. Third party provision must not be prescriptive. We need to ensure that we do not by dint of our encouragement for childcare, encourage wrap-around childcare, which means that the child has no real contact with a parent or family member. There is a lot for us to debate within this Assembly. I hope that when this report and its recommendations is sent to the Committees, they will pick up the challenge on behalf of everybody in Wales, working or not, and focus on the needs of the children first.

Felly, rhaid inni edrych yn gyfannol ar y modd y byddwn yn ymdrin ag anghenion pobl yng Nghymru am ofal plant. Wrth wneud hynny, rhaid inni beidio ag anghofio’r pwynt a wnaed heddiw. Mewn llawer achos, y dewis cyntaf yw i ofal plant gael ei gyflawni gan aelod o’r teulu. Nid yw darpariaeth gan drydydd parti i fod yn orchmynnol. Rhaid inni sicrhau na fyddwn, drwy annog gofal plant, yn annog gofal plant amgylchynol, sy’n golygu nad oes gan y plentyn unrhyw gysylltiad gwirioneddol â rhiant neu aelod o’r teulu. Mae llawer inni ei drafod yn y Cynulliad hwn. Pan anfonir yr adroddiad hwn a’i argymhellion i’r Pwyllgorau, gobeithio y byddant yn derbyn y sialens ar ran pawb yng Nghymru, rai mewn gwaith ac eraill, ac yn canolbwyntio ar anghenion y plant yn gyntaf.

Cynog Dafis siaradwyd yn Gymraeg t. 55

Cynog Dafis spoken in Welsh p. 55

A gaf fi ychwanegu at gynnwys y ddadl bwysig hon? Go brin fod pwnc pwysicach y gallai’r Cynulliad fod yn ei drafod. Hoffwn ganolbwyntio ar un agwedd. Yr wyf yn croesawu’r ffaith fod y Pwyllgor Dethol wedi paratoi’r adroddiad hwn. Nid wyf yn siŵr a wyf yn croesawu’r ffaith mai Pwyllgor Dethol o Dŷ’r Cyffredin sydd ar hyn o bryd yn gosod agenda’r Cynulliad hwn ond bydd y sefyllfa honno’n gwella. Yr wyf yn edrych ymlaen at y diwrnod pan fydd pwyllgorau’r Cynulliad hwn yn cynhyrchu adroddiadau o’r un ansawdd. Bydd hynny’n digwydd cyn hir. Dywedwyd eisoes, yn arbennig gan Gareth, fod profiadau’r blynyddoedd cynnar yn bwysig wrth ystyried eu heffaith ar dwf cymeriad person. Nid oes unrhyw faes arall lle mae buddsoddiad o ran adnoddau, ymdrech, gofal, cariad ac yn y blaen yn dwyn ffrwyth yn well nag yn ystod y blynyddoedd arbennig hyn.

May I add to this important debate? There could hardly be a more important subject for the Assembly to discuss. I want to concentrate on one aspect. I welcome the fact that the Select Committee has prepared this report. I am not sure whether I welcome the fact that a House of Commons Select Committee currently sets the agenda for this Assembly but the situation will improve. I look forward to the day when the Committees of this Assembly produce reports of similar quality. It will not take long until that happens. It has been said already, especially by Gareth, that the early years experiences are of important when we consider their effect on the development of a person’s character. There is no other field where an investment of resources, endeavour, care, love and so on bears fruit better than during these particular years.

Hoffwn gyfeirio at yr hyn yr oedd Gareth yn ei ddisgrifio fel addysg-ofal. Yr ydym yn sôn am strategaeth ofal ond ni ddylem sôn am ofal ar wahân i addysg. Mae’r gofal gorau bob amser yn addysgiadol. Dylai plentyn ddysgu’n barhaus tra ei fod dan ofal ac mae’r addysg orau yn ofalgar.

I wish to refer to what Gareth described as edu-care. We talk about a care strategy but we should not talk about care without discussing education. The best care is always educational. A child should learn continually whilst under care and the best education is a caring one.

Dealltwriaeth ynglŷn â phwysigrwydd y maes hwn a barodd i’r Llywodraeth flaenorol roi adnoddau ychwanegol i’r blynyddoedd cynnar. Cafwyd pwysau aruthrol o bob cyfeiriad; yr oedd y dystiolaeth yn llethol a phenderfynodd y Llywodraeth gyflwyno mesurau newydd. Yn anffodus, penderfynodd fynd i gyfeiriad talebau addysg feithrin. Cafwyd gwrthwynebiad cyffredinol i hynny—yr oedd bron yn unfrydol yng Nghymru. Cafwyd adroddiad gan y Pwyllgor Dethol ynglŷn â hynny. Mynnodd y Llywodraeth ei wthio drwodd, er ei bod ar drothwy etholiad cyffredinol a bod posibilrwydd cryf y byddai’r dull hwnnw’n cael ei wrthdroi. Felly a fu.

It was an understanding of the importance of this field that caused the previous Government to give additional resources to the early years. There was massive pressure from all directions, the evidence was overwhelming and the Government decided to introduce new measures. Unfortunately, it decided to go along the line of nursery education vouchers. There was general opposition to that—it was almost unanimous in Wales. The Select Committee produced a report on that. The Government insisted on pushing it through, although it was on the threshold of a general election and there was a strong possibility that the method would be overturned. That is what happened.

Wedyn, cawsom y dynesiad newydd, sy’n edrych yn rhagorol ar bapur. Mae’n awgrymu creu partneriaethau lleol lle byddai’r sector statudol, y sector gwirfoddol ac elfennau o’r sector preifat yn dod at ei gilydd i gydweithio. Byddent yn sicrhau y defnyddir adnoddau yn effeithiol fel ein bod yn cael dynesiad integredig. Mae’r hyn sydd wedi digwydd yn enghraifft dda o’r ffordd y gall y dymuniadau a’r bwriadau gorau arwain at ganlyniadau anffodus. Mae Gareth wedi sôn am hynny eisoes.

We then had the new approach, which looks wonderful on paper. It suggests creating local partnerships where the statutory sector, the voluntary sector and elements of the private sector would come together to co-operate. They would ensure that resources are used effectively so that we have an integrated approach. Past events are a good example of the way in which the best wishes and intentions can lead to unfortunate results. Gareth has already mentioned that.

Cafwyd digon o rybuddio y gallai pethau fynd o’u lle a rhybuddiwyd mewn da bryd ynglŷn â’r drwg-effeithiau a ddisgrifir yn yr adroddiad hwn. Anfonais sawl llythyr at Peter Hain, yn dilyn trafodaethau â’r mudiadau addysg feithrin Cymraeg a Saesneg yng Nghymru, yn ei rybuddio ynghylch y mater. Mewn cyfarfod â Peter Hain, apeliodd y Mudiad Ysgolion Meithrin arno i sicrhau bod canllawiau’r partneriaethau lleol yn gwarchod rhag yr hyn sydd wedi digwydd. Dadleuais yn Nhŷ’r Cyffredin am 3 o’r gloch y bore ar y Mesur Safonau a Fframwaith Ysgolion er mwyn tynnu sylw at y perygl. Mae adroddiad y Pwyllgor Dethol yn cyfiawnhau’r holl bryderon a fynegwyd bryd hynny.

There were plenty of warnings that things could go wrong and there were warnings in plenty of time as regards the bad effects described in this report. I sent many letters to Peter Hain, following discussions with the Welsh and English nursery education groups in Wales, warning him about the matter. In a meeting with Peter Hain, the Welsh nursery schools movement, Mudiad Ysgolion Meithrin, appealed to him to ensure that the guidelines for local partnerships safeguarded us from what has happened. I debated in the House of Commons at 3 a.m. on the School Standards and Framework Bill to draw attention to the dangers. The Select Committee’s report justifies all the concerns that were voiced at that time.

Nid wyf yn ymddiheuro am ailadrodd gan fod y mater mor bwysig. Mae ysgolion yn denu plant tair a phedair oed a chaiff hynny effaith ddinistriol ar ddarpariaeth wirfoddol. Daw plant i’r ysgol ar eu trydydd pen blwydd. O ganlyniad, mae grwpiau meithrin gwirfoddol yn cau, mae darpariaeth ar gyfer plant yn llai hygyrch na chynt a cheir darpariaeth amhriodol i blant yn yr ysgol gan eu bod yn cael eu dysgu mewn ffordd amhriodol yn y dosbarthiadau derbyn.

I do not apologise for repeating as the matter is so important. Schools are attracting three and four year olds and that has a destructive effect on voluntary provision. Children enter school on their third birthday. As a result, voluntary nursery groups are closing, provision for children is less accessible than previously and there is inappropriate provision for children in schools because they are taught in an inappropriate manner in the reception classes.

Mae lle i gredu bod hynny’n gwneud drwg i’r plant gan ei fod yn creu rhwystredigaeth a diflastod ac yn peri iddynt golli diddordeb. Mewn llawer o achosion, maent yn cael profiadau negyddol o addysg yn gynnar yn eu bywydau. Rhaid iddynt ganolbwyntio ar ddysgu ffurfiol a sgiliau llythrennedd a rhifedd yn rhy gynnar, ac mae hynny’n gwneud drwg iddynt o ran datblygiad. Gall fod yn wrthgynhyrchiol.

There is room to believe that it can be harmful to the children as it creates frustration and boredom and causes them to lose interest. In many cases, they have negative experiences of education early in life. They have to concentrate on formal learning and literacy and numeracy skills too early and that is harmful to their development. It can be counter-productive.

Ar yr un pryd, mae cyfranogiad rhieni yn lleihau. Un o’r pethau mwyaf cyffrous ynglŷn â’r sector gwirfoddol yw’r ffordd y mae rhieni yn cael eu denu i gefnogi’r cylch meithrin, bod yn rhan ohono a chodi arian ar ei gyfer. Yn aml, mae rhieni nad ydynt wedi cael profiad da o addysg yn penderfynu derbyn addysg ar ôl cymryd rhan mewn gweithgarwch meithrin. Mae’r cyfuniad o bethau sydd yn digwydd yn y sector gwirfoddol yn gyffrous. Ceir cyfraniadau ariannol i’r sector gwirfoddol nad ydych mor debyg o’u cael yn y sector statudol. Soniodd Val Feld am bwysigrwydd sicrhau bod y fenter hon yn llwyddo. Mae’n angenrheidiol adnabod rôl gadarnhaol, creadigol a gwerthfawr y sector meithrin er mwyn gwneud hynny.

At the same time, parental contribution is lessened. One of the most exciting things about the voluntary sector is the way in which parents are attracted to support the nursery group, to be part of it and to raise money for it. Often, parents who have not had a good experience of education decide to go into education after taking part in nursery activity. The combination of things that are happening in the voluntary sector is exciting. There are financial contributions to the voluntary sector that are not as likely to be forthcoming in the statutory sector. Val Feld mentioned the importance of ensuring that this enterprise succeeds. To do that, it is essential to recognise the nursery sector’s positive, creative and valuable role.

Carwn sôn am effaith niweidiol yr hyn sy’n digwydd ar hyn o bryd ar ragolygon y Gymraeg. Mae ymchwil gan Fwrdd yr Iaith Gymraeg wedi darganfod bod tua 50 y cant o rieni Cymru wedi datgan y byddent am i’w plant gael addysg feithrin Gymraeg pe byddai ar gael ac yn gyfleus. Mae hynny’n sylfaen ar gyfer adfywiad cyffrous i’r Gymraeg.

I wish to mention the present situation’s damaging effect on the Welsh language’s prospects. Research by the Welsh Language Board has declared that about 50 per cent of parent in Wales have stated that they would want their children to receive Welsh nursery education if it were available and convenient. That it is a foundation for an exciting revival for the Welsh language.

Mae adfywiad addysg Gymraeg wedi’i adeiladu i raddau helaeth ar weithgarwch unedau cyn-ysgol ac ysgolion meithrin Cymraeg. Dyma yw sylfaen y twf aruthrol mewn addysg Gymraeg yn yr ardaloedd Seisnig yn arbennig. Yn awr, mae plant ifanc yn cael eu tynnu i’r ysgolion ac mae unedau meithrin yn cau. Golyga hynny fod yn rhaid i blant deithio ymhellach er mwyn cael addysg feithrin. Mae hynny’n annerbyniol i rieni â phlant bach iawn. Mae’r ddarpariaeth ar gyfer plant dwy a hanner a thair oed hefyd yn cael ei thanseilio gan fod yr uned wedi lleihau. O ganlyniad, ceir proses o ddirywio.

The revival of Welsh education has been built on the activities of Welsh pre-school units and nursery schools to a great extent. That is the foundation of the huge growth in Welsh education, particularly in the Anglicised areas. Young children are being drawn into the schools and nursery units are closing. That means that children have to travel further to have nursery education. That is unacceptable to parents with very small children. Provision for two and a half and three year-old children is also undermined because the unit is smaller. As a result, there is a process of decline.

Wedi peintio’r darlun du hwnnw, apeliaf ar yr Ysgrifenyddion perthnasol, Rosemary Butler a Jane Hutt, i ymyrryd ar frys i atal y broses niweidiol hon rhag parhau. Fel rhan o agenda ehangach a chyn gynted â phosibl, rhaid inni symud y cymhelliad ariannol sy’n peri bod ysgolion yn awyddus i ddenu plant. Mae angen ystyried hynny hefyd.

Having painted that black picture, I appeal to the relevant Secretaries, Rosemary Butler and Jane Hutt, to interfere urgently to prevent this damaging process from proceeding. As part of a wider agenda and as soon as possible, we must move the financial incentive that means that schools are eager to attract children. That must also be considered.

Er mwyn rhwystro’r sefyllfa rhag gwaethygu, dylem apelio ar ysgolion i beidio â chymryd plant ar eu pen blwydd yn dair oed. Pe baent yn mynd i’r ysgol yn y mis Medi yn dilyn eu trydydd pen blwydd, byddai hynny’n ysgafnhau problemau’r grwpiau meithrin.

To prevent the situation from worsening, we must appeal to schools not to take in children on their third birthday. If they went to school in the September following their third birthday, that would lighten the burden for the nursery groups.

Brian Gibbons spoken in English p. 58

Brian Gibbons siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 58

If the ubiquitous martian arrived in Wales, expecting to see a society organised according to social needs, it would expect to see good childcare facilities in areas with the highest levels of under-age and teenage pregnancies, the highest rates of low birth weights, the highest levels of economic inactivity among men and women, and lower Gross Domestic Product levels.

Pe bai’r dyn bach hwnnw o Fawrth yn cyrraedd Cymru, gan ddisgwyl gweld cymdeithas a drefnwyd yn ôl anghenion cymdeithasol, byddai’n disgwyl gweld cyfleusterau gofal plant da yn yr ardaloedd sydd â’r lefelau uchaf o enedigaethau i fenywod dan oed ac yn eu harddegau, y cyfraddau uchaf o bwysau geni isel, y lefelau uchaf o anweithgaredd economaidd ymysg dynion a benywod, a’r lefelau Cynnyrch Mewnwladol Crynswyth isaf.

The tables on social exclusion that we saw last week showed that that is not the case. The level of provision is an exact mirror image of the degree of social exclusion in various communities. The lack of appropriate childcare facilities begins to create a self-perpetuating vicious circle in which families are excluded from economic activity. Consequently, they are condemned to continuing low income, a loss of independence and self-esteem and the beginning of a culture of dependency.

Mae’r tablau ar ddieithrwch cymdeithasol a welsom yr wythnos diwethaf yn dangos nad felly y mae. Mae’r lefel o ddarpariaeth yn union i’r gwrthwyneb i’r graddau o ddieithrwch cymdeithasol mewn gwahanol gymunedau. Mae diffyg cyfleusterau gofal plant priodol yn dechrau creu cylch cythreulig lle y bydd teuluoedd wedi eu cau allan o weithgaredd economaidd. O ganlyniad i hynny, fe’u condemnir i barhau ar incwm isel, maent yn colli annibyniaeth a hunan-barch ac yn dechrau diwylliant o ddibyniaeth.

Childcare is fundamental in breaking the vicious circle of social deprivation and exclusion. One of the key areas, which a number of people have mentioned, is affordability. As the report says, many people in employment find it extremely difficult to afford childcare. There will be much greater demands on communities with high levels of economic inactivity and social deprivation. Many of these communities lack the enterprising and entrepreneurial spirit to start up a private enterprise and there are opportunities there. As David mentioned, many of these communities look for resources within themselves. It may be that working with these communities will prompt community based childcare facilities. The report has a number of good points as it highlights areas where groups and communities may go to look for help and support to get childcare provision off the ground.

Mae gofal plant yn hanfodol er mwyn torri cylch cythreulig amddifadedd a dieithrwch cymdeithasol. Un o’r meysydd allweddol, y cyfeiriwyd ato gan sawl un, yw fforddiadwyedd. Fel y dywed yr adroddiad, mae llawer o bobl mewn cyflogaeth yn ei chael yn anodd iawn fforddio gofal plant. Bydd llawer mwy o alwadau ar gymunedau â lefelau uchel o anweithgaredd economaidd a dieithrwch cymdeithasol. Mae llawer o’r cymunedau hyn heb yr ysbryd mentrus ac entrepreneuraidd sy’n angenrheidiol i ddechrau menter breifat ac mae cyfleoedd yn y fan honno. Fel y dywedodd David, bydd llawer o’r cymunedau hyn yn chwilio am adnoddau o fewn eu cylch eu hunain. Efallai drwy weithio gyda’r cymunedau hyn y ceir hwb i greu cyfleusterau gofal plant cymunedol. Mae nifer o bwyntiau da yn yr adroddiad lle y mae’n tynnu sylw at feysydd lle y gallai grwpiau a chymunedau chwilio am gymorth a chefnogaeth i gychwyn darpariaeth gofal plant.

One of the main issues of childcare affordability is transport poverty. Many of the more socially deprived areas are far from where employment can be found. Many people from socially deprived or excluded areas work in places where the jobs are low paid. These families take longer to travel to work and have higher travel-to-work costs. They come from areas where private car ownership is already very low. The tables that we were presented with last week show many communities in Wales where household access to private transport is as low as 30 or 40 per cent. For people trying to get to work, trying to get childcare, coming home from work, accessing their childcare, getting home and caring for a family, it is a nightmare in terms of cost and time. The report does not really resolve those issues. We must consider childcare in its totality and transport is a key issue.

Un o’r prif faterion ynglŷn â fforddiadwyedd gofal plant yw tlodi cludiant. Mae llawer o’r ardaloedd mwyaf difreintiedig yn gymdeithasol yn bell o’r mannau lle y gellir canfod cyflogaeth. Mae llawer o’r bobl mewn ardaloedd sydd wedi eu hamddifadu neu eu dieithrio’n gymdeithasol yn gweithio mewn mannau lle mae’r swyddi’n rhai â chyflogau isel. Mae gan y teuluoedd hyn fwy o daith i gyrraedd eu gwaith ac mae eu costau teithio’n uwch. Maent yn dod o ardaloedd lle mae lefel perchnogaeth ceir preifat eisoes yn isel iawn. Mae’r tablau a gyflwynwyd inni yr wythnos diwethaf yn dangos llawer o gymunedau yng Nghymru lle mae mynediad teuluoedd at gludiant preifat gyn ised â 30 i 40 y cant. Yn achos pobl sy’n ceisio cyrraedd eu gwaith, yn ceisio cael gofal i’w plant, yn dod adref o’u gwaith, yn nôl eu plant o’r lle gofal, yn cyrraedd adref ac yn gofalu am deulu, mae hyn yn hunllef o ran cost ac amser. Nid yw’r adroddiad yn datrys y materion hyn mewn gwirionedd. Rhaid inni ystyried gofal plant yn ei gyfanrwydd ac mae cludiant yn fater allweddol.

There are two other points in the report that are worth considering. As others have said, much of the drive and focus of this report is back to work and welfare to work driven by the economic incentive. There is also a need for the therapeutic role of childcare facilities as many disadvantaged families lack proper domestic support and parenting skills. Proper community based childcare facilities can play a major remedial role in helping them out of their difficulties. I know of many families who have been unable to access these services, not because the need did not exist, but because the means to avail themselves of such facilities did not exist.

Mae dau bwynt arall yn yr adroddiad sydd yn werth eu hystyried. Fel y nododd eraill, mae llawer o gyfeiriad a ffocws yr adroddiad hwn yn ymwneud â dychwelyd i waith a symud o fudd-daliadau i waith dan ddylanwad y cymhelliant economaidd. Mae angen hefyd am rôl therapiwtig cyfleusterau gofal plant gan fod llawer o deuluoedd difreintiedig heb gefnogaeth briodol yn y cartref a medrau rhiant. Fe all cyfleusterau gofal plant priodol yn y gymuned chwarae rôl adferol bwysig drwy eu helpu allan o’u trafferthion. Fe wn am lawer o deuluoedd sydd heb allu cael mynediad i’r gwasanaethau hyn, nid am nad oedd yr angen yn bod, ond am nad oedd modd iddynt fanteisio ar gyfleusterau o’r fath.

The report’s emphasis on rules and regulations and the lack of emphasis on professionalism and good practice is probably a British characteristic. That is an interesting cultural observation, which is probably relevant to childcare and many ways that services and public services are provided in the United Kingdom.

Mae pwyslais yr adroddiad ar reolau a rheoliadau ac mae’r diffyg pwyslais ar broffesiynoldeb ac ymarfer da yn nodwedd Brydeinig, yn fwy na thebyg. Mae hynny’n sylw diwylliannol diddorol, sydd yn debygol o fod yn berthnasol i ofal plant ac i’r modd y cyflenwir llawer o wasanaethau a gwasanaethau cyhoeddus yn y Deyrnas Unedig.

In conclusion, I think this is a helpful report. It brings out many of the pertinent childcare issues. It emphasises the key role that childcare will have in improving social exclusion and dealing with problems of economic inactivity. We talk about roads, rail, telecommunications and so on, but the report raises a number of key issues about social infrastructure, which communities need to enable them to partake fully in modern society. That is a key element. This report highlights the need for a social structure, particularly in childcare.

I derfynu, credaf fod yr adroddiad hwn o gymorth. Mae’n tynnu sylw at lawer o’r materion perthnasol mewn gofal plant. Mae’n pwysleisio’r rôl allweddol a gaiff gofal plant wrth leihau dieithrwch cymdeithasol a delio â phroblemau anweithgaredd economaidd. Byddwn yn sôn am ffyrdd, rheilffyrdd, telegyfathrebu ac yn y blaen, ond mae’r adroddiad yn codi nifer o faterion allweddol ynghylch yr isadeiledd cymdeithasol y mae ar gymunedau ei angen fel y gallant gymryd rhan gyflawn yn y gymdeithas gyfoes. Mae hynny’n elfen allweddol. Mae’r adroddiad hwn yn tynnu sylw at yr angen am strwythur cymdeithasol, yn enwedig mewn gofal plant.

Kirsty Williams spoken in English p. 60

Kirsty Williams siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 60

I do not think anyone in this Chamber would disagree and not note the importance of childcare for families and children in Wales, as it asks us to do in the motion. I do not believe that the most chauvinistic of Assembly Members would dare to assume that childcare is a matter for women alone. I urge anybody who has not run the gauntlet in trying to organise their own childcare provision, like Jane, to read the experiences of those who are juggling childcare with the economic necessity of having to work. They would be left in no doubt that it is a nightmare trying to organise both aspects of their life.

Nid wyf yn credu y byddai neb yn y Siambr hon yn anghytuno ac yn peidio â nodi pwysigrwydd gofal plant i deuluoedd a phlant yng Nghymru, fel y gofynnir i ni wneud yn y cynnig. Ni chredaf y byddai’r Aelodau mwyaf siofinistaidd o’r Cynulliad yn meiddio tybio bod gofal plant yn fater i fenywod yn unig. Anogaf bawb nad yw wedi mynd drwy’r felin wrth geisio trefnu ei ddarpariaeth gofal plant ei hun, fel y gwnaeth Jane, i ddarllen profiadau’r rhai sy’n gorfod cyfuno gofal plant â’r angen economaidd i weithio. Ni fyddai ganddynt unrhyw amheuaeth wedyn mai hunllef yw ceisio trefnu’r ddwy agwedd ar eu bywyd.

In Wales, we have a mountain to climb if we are to put in place a network of child-centred, quality, accessible and affordable childcare places. This is certainly not what we have at present. The UK is a long way behind our European neighbours. Whilst I am sure Val will be glad to know that I have not come to bury this report, I have not come to praise it without question either. We must note that there are huge discrepancies in access to childcare across Wales. It is often in the places where it is most desperately needed that provision is at its worst. If we are to address this, it will need to receive a significant amount of additional funding as mentioned in the Liberal Democrat amendment. As outlined in paragraph 38 of the report, the reality is that in the most disadvantaged communities, childcare will only be affordable and sustainable if it is subsidised. Funding is key. Grand plans for more places are admirable, but there is often a problem with keeping schemes open. There is often a complete lack of sustainable funding and this must be acknowledged in the strategy we develop. We must also acknowledge that good care is not cheap.

Yng Nghymru, mae gennym fynydd o waith i’w gyflawni os ydym i sefydlu rhwydwaith o leoedd mewn gofal plant sy’n blant-ganolog, yn hygyrch, yn fforddiadwy ac o ansawdd da. Nid hynny sydd gennym ar hyn o bryd, yn sicr. Mae’r DU ymhell ar ôl ein cymdogion Ewropeaidd. Er y bydd Val yn falch o wybod na ddeuthum i gladdu’r adroddiad hwn, ni ddeuthum i’w ganmol yn ddigwestiwn ychwaith. Rhaid inni nodi bod anghysonderau mawr yn y mynediad i ofal plant ar draws Cymru. Mae’r ddarpariaeth yn aml ar ei gwaethaf yn yr ardaloedd lle y mae’r angen mwyaf dybryd. Os ydym i ymdrin â hyn, bydd raid cael swm sylweddol o arian ychwanegol fel y crybwyllir yng ngwelliant y Democratriaid Rhyddfrydol. Fel yr amlinellir ym mharagraff 38 yn yr adroddiad, y gwir yw na fydd gofal plant yn fforddiadwy yn y cymunedau mwyaf difreintiedig os na fydd cymhorthdal ar ei gyfer. Ariannu yw’r allwedd. Mae cynlluniau mawr am fwy o leoedd yn ganmoladwy, ond fe geir problem yn aml wrth gadw cynlluniau’n agored. Yn aml, bydd diffyg llwyr o ariannu cynaliadwy a rhaid cydnabod hyn yn y strategaeth a ddatblygwn. Rhaid inni hefyd gydnabod nad yw gofal da yn rhad.

I was glad to hear Jane mention the role of European funding in setting up one of the projects in which she was involved. I welcome her acceptance of the Liberal Democrat amendment, which mentions European funding. I know the First Secretary gets a bit jumpy when European structural funds are mentioned. However, I want to draw his attention to the report’s conclusion that European structural funds are potentially a rich source for childcare provision and funding. I am sure that when the time comes, Mr Michael, the Government will not let the children of Wales down.

Yr oeddwn yn falch o glywed Jane yn sôn am rôl ariannu Ewropeaidd wrth sefydlu un o’r projectau yr oedd yn ymwneud â hwy. Croesawaf y ffaith ei bod yn derbyn gwelliant y Democratiaid Rhyddfrydol, sy’n crybwyll ariannu Ewropeaidd. Gwn fod y Prif Ysgrifennydd yn dechrau aflonyddu pan sonnir am gronfeydd strwythurol Ewrop. Fodd bynnag, yr wyf am dynnu ei sylw at gasgliad yr adroddiad bod potensial i gronfeydd strwythurol Ewrop fod yn ffynhonnell doreithiog ar gyfer darparu ac ariannu gofal plant. Pan ddaw’r amser, Mr Michael, yr wyf yn sicr na fydd y Llywodraeth yn siomi plant Cymru.

Alun Michael The First Secretary spoken in English p. 61

Alun Michael Y Prif Ysgrifennydd siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 61

Thank you for the opportunity to respond. I get very excited about structural funds because they can be used positively. I am perfectly happy to endorse the comment you have just made because you are reflecting the opportunity that is there if we engage with using structural funds properly. I get slightly irritated when people are chewing the carcass of a very old song rather than looking at how we best use the opportunity. Clearly you are not doing that.

Diolch am y cyfle i ymateb. Byddaf yn teimlo’n gynhyrfus iawn ynghylch cronfeydd strwythurol am fod modd eu defnyddio’n gadarnhaol. Yr wyf yn gwbl fodlon ategu’r sylw yr ydych newydd ei wneud am eich bod yn dangos y cyfle sydd ar gael os byddwn yn ynwneud â defnyddio’r cronfeydd strwythurol yn iawn. Byddaf yn teimlo braidd yn biwis pan fydd pobl yn canu’r un dôn gron yn hytrach nag edrych ar y modd y gallwn ddefnyddio’r cyfle i’r eithaf. Mae’n amlwg nad ydych yn gwneud hynny.

Kirsty Williams spoken in English p. 62

Kirsty Williams siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 62

I am sorry if I mistook jumpiness for excitedness. I also welcome the emphasis on partnership in the report. No one sector can provide all the answers. We need to respect the strengths of each type of provision. We must draw on public, private and voluntary provision within a regulatory framework that provides peace of mind for parents. We must develop partnerships between providers to foster effective integration of care and education. We must also keep in mind that provision is not just about nine to five; we need varied and flexible childcare provision. We must address those who often get left behind: new babies, children with disabilities, children over ten and those living in rural areas.

Mae’n ddrwg gennyf os camgymerais gynnwrf am aflonyddwch. Yr wyf hefyd yn croesawu’r pwyslais ar bartneriaeth yn yr adroddiad. Ni all yr un sector roi’r holl atebion ar ei ben ei hun. Rhaid inni barchu cryfderau pob math o ddarpariaeth. Rhaid inni elwa ar y ddarpariaeth gyhoeddus, preifat a gwirfoddol o fewn fframwaith rheoliadol sy’n rhoi tawelwch meddwl i rieni. Rhaid inni ddatblygu partneriaethau rhwng darparwyr i feithrin integreiddio effeithiol rhwng gofal ac addysg. Rhaid inni gofio hefyd nad yw’r ddarpariaeth yn un rhwng naw a phump o’r gloch yn unig; mae arnom angen darpariaeth gofal plant amrywiol a hyblyg. Rhaid inni roi sylw i’r rhai sydd yn aml yn cael eu gadael ar ôl: babanod newydd, plant ag anableddau, plant dros ddeg oed a rhai sy’n byw mewn ardaloedd gwledig.

In recent years and in the past couple of months, we have heard many worrying stories of the inappropriate behaviour of those looking after some of our children. There are many ways of ensuring their protection: police checks, registration schemes, training and the like. However, the Children’s Commissioner for Wales should be at the pinnacle of child protection. I welcome the urgent priority given to this by the Health and Social Services Committee and indeed, we begin our deliberations on that issue tomorrow. That Children’s Commissioner must be a champion for all young people in Wales, whatever their circumstances. The post must have the power and discretion to assure parents in Wales that their children, whatever their childcare provision, are in the best possible hands.

Yn y blynyddoedd a’r misoedd diwethaf hyn, fe glywsom lawer o storïau sy’n peri gofid am ymddygiad amhriodol gan rai sy’n gwarchod rhai o’n plant. Mae llawer modd i sicrhau eu bod wedi eu diogelu: gwiriadau gan yr heddlu, cynlluniau cofrestru, hyfforddi a phethau tebyg. Fodd bynnag, dylai Comisiynydd Plant Cymru fod ar frig y gyfundrefn diogelu plant. Croesawaf y flaenoriaeth frys a roddir i hyn gan y Pwyllgor Iechyd a Gwasanaethau Cymdeithasol ac, yn wir, byddwn yn dechrau trafod y mater hwnnw yfory. Rhaid i’r Comisiynydd Plant hwnnw sefyll dros holl bobl ifanc Cymru, beth bynnag fo’u hamgylchiadau. Rhaid i’r swydd feddu ar y pŵer a’r gallu i roi sicrwydd i rieni yng Nghymru fod eu plant, beth bynnag fo’r ddarpariaeth gofal ar eu cyfer, yn y dwylo gorau posibl.

Janet Ryder spoken in English p. 62

Janet Ryder siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 62

I should declare an interest. Until two weeks ago, I was the chairman of Denbighshire’s early years partnership. Partnerships are often talked about in this document and are much criticised. It is only fair to set the scene in respect of their development. They were established in 1997-98 as the early years development partnerships. Within a year of their inception, they were asked to transform into childcare partnerships, enlarging their membership and bringing in more people. The partnerships that we have heard so much about this afternoon may not function properly but they already exist throughout Wales.

Fe ddylwn ddatgan diddordeb. Tan ddwy flynedd yn ôl, yr oeddwn yn gadeirydd ar bartneriaeth blynyddoedd cynnar Sir Ddinbych. Fe sonnir yn aml am bartneriaethau yn y ddogfen hon a cheir llawer o feirniadu arnynt. Nid yw ond yn deg i gyflwyno’r cefndir ynghylch eu datblygiad. Fe’u sefydlwyd yn 1997-98 fel partneriaethau datblygu’r blynyddoedd cynnar. O fewn blwyddyn ar ôl eu sefydlu, gofynnwyd iddynt newid yn bartneriaethau gofal plant, gan ehangu eu haelodaeth a dod â mwy o bobl i mewn. Efallai nad yw’r partneriaethau y clywsom gymaint amdanynt brynhawn heddiw yn gweithredu’n iawn ond maent yn bod eisoes ym mhob rhan o Gymru.

The way that they were set up has created many frustrations within the partnerships. Cynog mentioned many of them, such as money going from the education department straight into schools. Authorities were asked to lead in the development of these partnerships and money was to go through them. However, the authorities did not send that money into the communities as they should have done. I hope that the two, or however many, Committees that will deal with this matter will look carefully at the funding mechanisms for the many kinds of early years childcare provision.

Mae’r ffordd y’u sefydlwyd wedi creu llawer o rwystredigaethau o fewn y partneriaethau. Soniodd Cynog am lawer ohonynt, fel arian yn mynd yn syth o’r adran addysg i ysgolion. Gofynnwyd i’r awdurdodau arwain wrth ddatblygu’r partneriaethau ac yr oedd arian i fod i fynd drwyddynt hwy. Fodd bynnag, ni yrrodd yr awdurdodau’r arian i’r cymunedau fel y dylasent fod wedi gwneud. Gobeithio y bydd y ddau Bwyllgor, neu ba nifer bynnag, fydd yn ymdrin â’r mater hwn yn edrych yn ofalus ar y mecanweithiau ariannu i’r amryw fathau o ddarpariaeth gofal plant yn y blynyddoedd cynnar.

Funding was a problem for the partnerships when they were set up. They were established as separate from local councils. In fact, there was no role for local councils. However, the partnerships were to develop the strategy that local councils had to adopt, so there was tension about how to get the policies and strategies that the local partnerships wanted to implement on to county council agendas. I hope that the Committees that review this document will look at that.

Yr oedd ariannu’n broblem i’r partneriaethau pan sefydlwyd hwy. Fe’u sefydlwyd ar wahân i gynghorau lleol. Mewn gwirionedd, nid oedd rôl ynddynt i gynghorau lleol. Fodd bynnag, y partneriaethau oedd i ddatblygu’r strategaeth yr oedd y cynghorau lleol yn gorfod ei mabwysiadu, felly yr oedd tyndra ynghylch y modd i gael y polisïau a’r strategaethau yr oedd y partneriaethau am eu gweithredu ar agendâu’r cynghorau sir. Gobeithio y bydd y Pwyllgorau sy’n adolygu’r ddogfen hon yn edrych ar hynny.

The partnerships needed funding to establish themselves and were completely reliant on local authorities for secretarial support. The local authorities’ budgets and offices were also under pressure. The partnerships needed money straightaway. The money that they have been given for support and to develop strategies has been short term. I welcome the suggestion that you might look at 10-year funding. That would give stability to projects. However, please learn the lessons of the all-Wales strategy money, which was used to develop projects for people with learning disabilities. When that ring-fencing was taken away, many of those projects collapsed.

Yr oedd ar y partneriaethau angen arian i’w sefydlu eu hunain ac yr oeddent yn gwbl ddibynnol ar yr awdurdodau lleol am gefnogaeth ysgrifenyddol. Yr oedd cyllidebau a swyddfeydd yr awdurdodau lleol dan bwysau hefyd. Yr oedd ar y partneriaethau angen arian ar unwaith. Mae’r arian a roddwyd iddynt ar gyfer cefnogaeth ac i ddatblygu strategaethau yn arian tymor-byr. Croesawaf yr awgrym y gallech ystyried ariannu dros 10 mlynedd. Byddai hynny’n rhoi sefydlogrwydd i brojectau. Fodd bynnag, yr wyf yn gofyn ichi ddysgu’r gwersi yn sgil arian strategaeth Cymru gyfan, a ddefnyddiwyd i ddatblygu projectau ar gyfer pobl ag anableddau dysgu. Pan ddiddymwyd y cyllid neilltuol, daeth llawer o’r projectau hynny i ben.

We must consider how funding is made available. It needs to be long term to give projects security. There are many projects that need to be developed, such as the children’s information bureaux, which are vital to help parents access good childcare and other children’s services but cannot become self-funding. They will continue to need money. Local councils do not have the luxury of being able to supply it so I hope that the Committees will reconsider funding.

Rhaid inni ystyried ym mha fodd y mae’r arian i’w ddarparu. Rhaid iddo fod dros dymor hir er mwyn rhoi sicrwydd i brojectau. Mae llawer o brojectau y bydd angen eu datblygu, fel y canolfannau gwybodaeth plant, sy’n hanfodol i helpu rhieni i gael mynediad at ofal plant da a gwasanaethau plant eraill, ond sydd heb y gallu i’w hariannu eu hunain. Nid oes modd gan y cynghorau lleol i’w ddarparu felly gobeithio y bydd y Pwyllgorau’n ailystyried eu hariannu.

There is much that is valuable in the document. It is the way forward. However, the partnerships need a lot of help and support. I welcome the suggestion that you may consider giving them that on an all-Wales level. I echo what has been said about childcare and the provision for children’s needs covering every aspect of service. It is not an issue restricted to education or the social services. It covers technical services, highways, housing and everything else. All children have needs and those needs are met in many ways.

Ceir llawer yn y ddogfen sy’n werthfawr. Hon yw’r ffordd ymlaen. Fodd bynnag, mae angen llawer o gymorth a chefnogaeth ar y partneriaethau. Yr wyf yn croesawu’r awgrym y gallech ystyried rhoi hynny iddynt ar lefel Cymru gyfan. Ategaf yr hyn a ddywedwyd am ofal plant a bod darparu ar gyfer anghenion plant yn cynnwys pob agwedd o wasanaethau. Nid yw’n fater sy’n gyfyngedig i addysg neu i’r gwasanaethau cymdeithasol. Mae’n cwmpasu gwasanaethau technegol, priffyrdd, tai a phob dim arall. Mae gan bob plentyn anghenion ac fe atebir yr anghenion hynny mewn llawer ffordd.

Christine Chapman spoken in English p. 64

Christine Chapman siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 64

I add my voice to those of the speakers who have made points about affordability. It is the issue in this debate. As the Select Committee report states, ‘affordability is crucial to childcare in Wales’.

Yr wyf yn ychwanegu fy llais at rai’r siaradwyr a wnaeth bwyntiau am fforddiadwyedd. Dyna’r mater yn y ddadl hon. Fel y dywed adroddiad y Pwyllgor Dethol, ‘affordability is crucial to childcare in Wales’.

Any childcare strategy that we are asked to adopt in this Assembly must ensure that affordibility of childcare is paramount. I often mention the problems faced in deprived areas such as Cynon Valley. The social deprivation faced by some of my constituents was highlighted again in the programme The Point on BBC2 Wales last week. It is this background that leads me to agree with certain of the reservations made by the Select Committee in its report. I will explain why.

Bydd unrhyw strategaeth gofal plant y gofynnir inni ei mabwysiadu yn y Cynulliad hwn yn gorfod sicrhau bod fforddiadwyedd gofal plant yn cael y lle blaenaf. Byddaf yn sôn yn aml am y problemau a wynebir mewn ardaloedd difreintiedig fel Cwm Cynon. Tynnwyd sylw eto at yr amddifadedd cymdeithasol a wynebir gan rai o’m hetholwyr yn y rhaglen The Point ar BBC2 Wales yr wythnos diwethaf. Y cefndir hwnnw sy’n f’arwain i gytuno â rhai o’r amheuon a fynegwyd gan y Pwyllgor Dethol yn ei adroddiad. Fe egluraf pam.

To me and, more importantly, to my constituents, childcare provision in the Cynon Valley is irrelevant unless it is affordable. It is not good enough to point just to existing provision as many of the most disadvantaged families cannot use it due to prohibitive costs. It is another aspect of the social exclusion faced by families on the lowest incomes and on benefits. To this end, I wholeheartedly welcome the introduction of the working families tax credit with its childcare tax credit element. It addresses the childcare cost faced by many low-income families in work. However, we also need to look at those who work less than 16 hours per week, as many of my constituents do.

Yn fy marn i ac, yn bwysicach, ym marn f’etholwyr, mae darpariaeth gofal plant yng Nghwm Cynon yn amherthnasol os nad yw’n fforddiadwy. Nid yw’n ddigon da cyfeirio at y ddarpariaeth bresennol yn unig oherwydd nid oes modd i lawer o’r teuluoedd mwyaf difreintiedig ei defnyddio oherwydd y costau gormodol. Mae’n agwedd arall ar y dieithrwch cymdeithasol a wynebir gan deuluoedd ar yr incwm isaf ac ar fudd-daliadau. I’r diben hwn, yr wyf yn rhoi croeso calonnog i gyflwyno’r credyd treth i deuluoedd sy’n gweithio gyda’r elfen o gredyd treth am ofal plant sydd ynddo. Mae’n rhoi sylw i’r costau am ofal plant a wynebir gan lawer o deuluoedd sydd ar incwm isel. Fodd bynnag, mae angen inni hefyd ystyried y rhai sy’n gweithio llai nag 16 awr yr wythnos, y ceir nifer fawr ohonynt yn f’etholaeth i.

Although over 1.3 million families in Britain will benefit from the new scheme, those who work for less than 16 hours a week, those who do not work and students will not. The safety net is there for some of these people. I am pleased that the rise in access funds has helped with the childcare costs of those in further and higher education, and that new deal participants are also given some financial assistance with childcare. However, it is those who are economically inactive who suffer most. The means to break into economic activity must be served by the ability to afford childcare.

Er y bydd dros 1.3 miliwn o deuluoedd ym Mhrydain yn elwa ar y cynllun newydd, ni fydd y rhai hynny sy’n gweithio llai nag 16 awr yr wythnos, na rhai nad ydynt yn gweithio, na myfyrwyr. Mae’r rhwyd diogelwch yno ar gyfer rhai o’r bobl hyn. Yr wyf yn falch bod y cynnydd yn y cronfeydd mynediad wedi helpu gyda chostau gofal plant y rhai mewn addysg bellach ac uwch, a bod y rhai sy’n cymryd rhan yn y Fargen Newydd hefyd yn derbyn rhywfaint o gymorth ariannol gyda gofal plant. Fodd bynnag, y rhai sy’n economaidd anweithgar sy’n dioddef fwyaf. Rhaid i’r modd i gyrraedd gweithgaredd economaidd gael ei ategu gan y gallu i fforddio gofal plant.

I would like to see—as would many others, including the Select Committee and many of those who presented evidence to it—the childcare tax credit being extended to informal childcare arrangements. Valley communities are strong and close. Families and friends often live near to each other. That aspect of Welsh life should be celebrated, and I am pleased that Gwenda made that point. Traditionally, this informal childcare formed the backbone of children’s development in industrial south Wales. Yet as the current arrangement stands, those who provide what may be a childcare service equal to that provided elsewhere will lose out due to the nature of the childcare tax credit. I agree with Children in Wales, which states:

Byddwn i—fel llawer un arall, gan gynnwys y Pwyllgor Dethol a llawer o’r rhai a gyflwynodd dystiolaeth iddo—yn hoffi gweld ymestyn y credyd treth am ofal plant i gynnwys trefniadau gofal plant anffurfiol. Mae cymunedau’r Cymoedd yn gryf ac yn glòs. Bydd teuluoedd a ffrindiau’n byw’n agos at ei gilydd yn aml. Dylid mawrygu’r agwedd honno ar fywyd Cymru, ac yr wyf yn falch bod Gwenda wedi gwneud y pwynt hwnnw. Yn draddodiadol, y gofal plant anffurfiol hwn oedd asgwrn cefn datblygiad plant yn ardaloedd diwydiannol de Cymru. Ond fel y mae’r trefniadau ar hyn o bryd, bydd y rhai sy’n darparu gwasanaeth gofal plant a allai fod cystal â’r hyn a ddarperir mewn mannau eraill ar eu colled oherwydd natur y credyd treth am ofal plant. Cytunaf â Phlant yng Nghymru, sy’n datgan:

‘the childcare strategy could run the risk of creating inequalities if it does not fully address the issues… of ensuring equality of opportunity for parents living in areas of deprivation.’

I recommend that, after monitoring the scheme, if problems arise, we should consider including informal childcare arrangements under the tax credit scheme further to alleviate childcare problems. I accept the point made by several speakers that although informal, childcare has to be safe and should be monitored. That is important.

Os gwelir ar ôl monitro’r cynllun fod problemau’n codi, yr wyf yn argymell y dylem ystyried cynnwys trefniadau gofal plant anffurfiol o dan y cynllun credyd treth er mwyn lliniaru problemau gofal plant ymhellach. Yr wyf yn derbyn y pwynt a wnaed gan sawl siaradwr fod rhaid i’r gofal hwn, er ei fod yn anffurfiol, fod yn ddiogel ac y dylid ei fonitro. Mae hynny’n bwysig.

As the Welsh Affairs Select Committee report rightly points out:

Fel y dywedir yn briodol yn adroddiad y Pwyllgor Dethol ar Faterion Cymreig:

‘the working families tax credit alone will not solve the problem of affordability of childcare in the most disadvantaged communities.’

It is with that in mind that we must also welcome the introduction of the Sure Start Initiative and the New Opportunities Fund moneys. We must take care to ensure that in Valley communities such as the Cynon Valley, long-term strategic approaches are taken in funding decisions. Sustainable childcare initiatives will be produced as a result.

Gan gofio hynny, rhaid inni groesawu cyflwyniad y cynllun Cychwyn Cadarn ac arian y Gronfa Cyfleoedd Newydd. Rhaid inni ofalu bod dull gweithredu strategol tymor-hir ynglŷn â phenderfyniadau ariannu mewn cymunedau yn y Cymoedd fel Cwm Cynon.

Those who wish to return to work or enter training are often the most hampered by unaffordable childcare. As I have said on previous occasions, we need almost a complete culture change to ensure that our employers and training providers play their part in providing affordable, quality childcare. I will emphasise this point in the Post-16 Education and Training Committee. Some organisations, such as the Kids’ Club Network in Wales, believe that financial help should be available from day one of employment as many people feel that they cannot sustain debts before being paid. They therefore refuse work. I would like this explored further so that we can help those in greatest need.

Y rhai sydd am ddychwelyd i weithio neu am ddechrau hyfforddiant yw’r rhai a rwystrir fwyaf yn aml gan ofal plant na allant ei fforddio. Fel y dywedais cyn hyn, mae arnom angen newid llwyr bron yn ein diwylliant i sicrhau y bydd ein cyflogwyr a’n darparwyr hyfforddiant yn chwarae eu rhan wrth ddarparu gofal plant fforddiadwy o ansawdd da. Byddaf yn pwysleisio’r pwynt hwn yn y Pwyllgor Addysg a Hyfforddiant Ôl-16. Mae rhai cyrff, fel y Rhwydwaith Clybiau Plant yng Nghymru, yn credu y dylai cymorth ariannol fod ar gael o’r diwrnod cyntaf mewn cyflogaeth gan fod llawer o bobl yn teimlo na allant fynd i ddyled cyn cael eu talu. Felly byddant yn gwrthod gwaith. Hoffwn weld ymchwil bellach i hynny fel y gallwn helpu’r rhai sydd â’r angen mwyaf.

In conclusion, I want to echo the words of children in Wales who, in their evidence to the Select Committee, identified the opportunity for a Welsh solution to Welsh problems in the advent of the Assembly. The child must be at the centre of the decisions and we must address the particular problems faced by Welsh parents, rather than mirroring developments in England. We must also ensure that we cast the net far wider to allow as many people as possible from disadvantaged communities to benefit from financial help with childcare. If we can do that, we are moving in the right direction.

I derfynu, yr wyf am ategu geiriau Plant yng Nghymru, yn eu tystiolaeth i’r Pwyllgor Dethol, a nododd y cyfle i gael ateb Cymreig i broblemau Cymreig gyda dyfodiad y Cynulliad. Rhaid i’r plentyn fod ar ganol y penderfyniadau a rhaid inni roi sylw i’r problemau arbennig a wynebir gan rieni Cymru, yn hytrach nag adlewyrchu datblygiadau yn Lloegr. Rhaid inni sicrhau hefyd ein bod yn taflu’r rhwyd yn ehangach fel y gall cynifer â phosibl o gymunedau difreintiedig elwa ar y cymorth ariannol gyda gofal plant. Os gallwn wneud hynny, byddwn yn symud yn y cyfeiriad iawn.

Geraint Davies spoken in English p. 67

Geraint Davies siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 67

I welcome the opportunity to speak on this important subject. Good childcare is vital for the development of our communities, both socially and economically. If we want balanced communities, we must look after our children well. Children are the main priority, not the carer, the teacher or even the parent. The child must come first. We should consult older children to see what they find enjoyable and stimulating. Childcare is important in developing a child’s social and educational skills. It means having fun, just as we have fun playing with our computers. Having fun is the best way for children to learn.

Yr wyf yn croesawu’r cyfle i siarad ar y pwnc pwysig hwn. Mae gofal plant da yn hanfodol ar gyfer datblygiad ein cymunedau, yn gymdeithasol ac yn economaidd. Os ydym am gael cymunedau cytbwys, rhaid inni ofalu’n dda am ein plant. Plant yw’r flaenoriaeth bennaf, nid y gwarchodwr, yr athro neu’r rhiant hyd yn oed. Rhaid i’r plentyn ddod yn gyntaf. Dylem ymgynghori â phlant hŷn i ganfod beth sy’n rhoi boddhad a symbyliad iddynt. Mae gofal plant yn bwysig wrth ddatblygu medrau cymdeithasol ac addysgol y plentyn. Mae’n golygu cael hwyl, yn union fel y byddwn ni’n cael hwyl wrth chwarae â’n cyfrifiaduron. Cael hwyl yw’r ffordd orau i blant ddysgu.

I echo the views expressed by Brian Gibbons about deprivation. My constituency is on the wrong side of the divide with regard to childcare. Childcare in place of parents is not as big an issue where I come from as it is in other areas of Wales because a parent is often at home due to low economic activity. Playschemes are vital and I make an appeal about this issue. Playschemes are occasionally held for one week during the summer holidays but children play all the year round. We need much more funding for playschemes. We need to get children away from watching the television to playing and interacting with other children instead. That is how their social skills develop. I am concerned about funding as the report mentions that people get a year’s funding for a scheme and three years if they are lucky. We must have a long-term strategy. People must invest in the future of our children. I make a plea for the important kids clubs to be extended throughout the year.

Yr wyf yn ategu’r farn a fynegwyd gan Brian Gibbons am amddifadedd. Mae f’etholaeth i ar yr ochr anghywir y clawdd o ran gofal plant. Nid yw gofal plant yn lle rhieni yn gymaint o destun trafod yn f’ardal i ag y mae mewn rhannau eraill o Gymru oherwydd bydd yna riant gartref mewn llawer achos o ganlyniad i weithgaredd economaidd isel. Mae cynlluniau chwarae yn hollbwysig ac yr wyf gwneud apêl ar y mater hwn. Weithiau bydd cynlluniau chwarae’n cael eu cynnal am un wythnos yn ystod gwyliau’r haf ond mae plant yn chwarae drwy’r flwyddyn gron. Mae arnom angen llawer mwy o arian i gynlluniau chwarae. Rhaid inni dynnu plant oddi wrth y teledu a’u cael i chwarae a rhyngweithio â phlant eraill yn lle hynny. Dyna sut y bydd eu medrau cymdeithasol yn datblygu. Yr wyf yn bryderus ynghylch ariannu oherwydd mae’r adroddiad yn dweud y bydd pobl yn derbyn ariannu am flwyddyn ar gyfer cynllun ac am dair blynedd os ydynt yn ffodus. Rhaid inni gael strategaeth dymor-hir. Rhaid i bobl fuddsoddi yn nyfodol ein plant. Yr wyf yn erfyn am ymestyn y clybiau plant pwysig hyn drwy’r flwyddyn.

Brian Hancock spoken in English p. 68

Brian Hancock siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 68

I did not get the report until this morning and have not gone through it in detail. We must remember that we are talking about the citizens of tomorrow and must give them the greatest opportunity. Therefore, we must invest in our children and make childcare accessible, affordable, community-based, safe and secure. We must monitor it so that all these elements are achievable and parents get the best deal. Geraint has spoken about playschemes and there is no point in repeating what has been said but we must do the best we can for the citizens of tomorrow.

Ni dderbyniais yr adroddiad tan fore heddiw ac nid wyf wedi mynd drwyddo’n fanwl. Rhaid inni gofio ein bod yn sôn am ddinasyddion yfory a rhaid inni roi’r cyfle mwyaf posibl iddynt. Felly, rhaid inni fuddsoddi yn ein plant a gwneud gofal plant yn hygyrch, yn fforddiadwy, yn lleol yn y gymuned, ac yn ddiogel. Rhaid inni ei fonitro er mwyn cyflawni’r holl elfennau hyn a sicrhau’r fargen orau i rieni. Mae Geraint wedi sôn am gynlluniau chwarae ac nid oes diben ailadrodd yr hyn a ddywedwyd ond rhaid inni wneud y gorau y gallwn dros ddinasyddion y dyfodol.

Rosemary Butler spoken in English p. 68

Rosemary Butler siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 68

Alun Michael tried to do something a little different in Wales when he set up the Cabinet posts. He gave me the responsibility of looking after children’s issues across the board. As has been said this afternoon, children’s issues are encompassed in everything: education, economic development, social services, health, housing, sports and the arts. It is vital that children are taken into account in our policies. As Jane mentioned earlier, I am responsible for ensuring the delivery of this holistic approach to children.

Fe geisiodd Alun Michael wneud rhywbeth braidd yn wahanol yng Nghymru pan sefydlodd y swyddi yn y Cabinet. Rhoddodd gyfrifoldeb i mi dros ofalu am faterion plant ym mhob maes. Fel y dywedwyd brynhawn heddiw, mae materion plant yn gynwysiedig ym mhob dim: addysg, datblygu economaidd, gwasanaethau cymdeithasol, iechyd, tai, chwaraeon a’r celfyddydau. Mae’n hollbwysig y cymerir plant i ystyriaeth yn ein polisïau. Fel y dywedodd Jane yn gynharach, fy nghyfrifoldeb i yw cyflawni’r dull gweithredu cyfannol hwn ynghylch plant.

Whether one agrees with this report or not, it has generated an excellent debate this afternoon. I am not going to try to address all of the details individually but will give a general overview because I thought the points made were excellent. The items raised will be reviewed by all Assembly Committees, from Economic Development under Rhodri, to Health under Jane.

Pa un a yw rhywun yn cytuno â’r adroddiad ai peidio, mae wedi creu dadl ragorol brynhawn heddiw. Nid wyf am geisio ymdrin â’r holl fanylion yn unigol ond fe roddaf uwcholwg cyffredinol oherwydd yr oeddwn yn credu bod y pwyntiau a wnaed yn rhai rhagorol. Fe adolygir yr eitemau a godwyd gan holl Bwyllgorau’r Cynulliad, o Ddatblygu Economaidd o dan Rhodri, i Iechyd o dan Jane.

There was some criticism of the strategy but it is not set in stone and we do not want it to be. It will continue to evolve in the light of experience. The Welsh Office, partnerships and others have already done good work. We need to build on that and give careful thought to how best the strategy might develop, so that it meets the needs of the parents and children of Wales. We need to ensure that childcare is affordable, high quality and accessible.

Yr oedd rhywfaint o feirniadaeth ar y strategaeth ond nid yw i fod yn ddigyfnewid ac nid ydym am iddi fod felly. Bydd yn parhau i ddatblygu yng ngoleuni profiad. Mae’r Swyddfa Gymreig, y partneriaethau ac eraill eisoes wedi gwneud gwaith da. Mae angen inni adeiladu ar sail hynny a rhoi ystyriaeth ofalus i’r ffordd orau y gallai’r strategaeth ddatblygu, fel ei bod yn ateb anghenion rhieni a phlant Cymru. Rhaid inni sicrhau bod gofal plant yn fforddiadwy, o ansawdd uchel ac yn hygyrch.

A number of Members have made the point that many families might wish to look after their own children. We have an obligation to ensure that families can balance responsibilities at home, work and education or training. The availability of good quality provision will provide people with a choice. Choice is important.

Mae sawl Aelod wedi gwneud y pwynt bod llawer o deuluoedd yn dymuno gofalu am eu plant eu hunain. Mae rheidrwydd arnom i sicrhau y bydd teuluoedd yn gallu cydbwyso eu cyfrifoldebau yn y cartref, yn y gwaith ac mewn addysg neu hyfforddiant. Drwy sicrhau bod darpariaeth o ansawdd da ar gael, bydd gan bobl ddewis. Mae dewis yn bwysig.

Everybody was impressed by Gwenda’s impassioned contribution. The Assembly will give early consideration to the remit, role and functions of a children’s commissioner. A paper is on the agenda and the Health and Social Services Committee will meet tomorrow. I have spoken with Andrew Davies, the Business Secretary and he has assured me that he will try to ensure that the United Nations charter on children’s rights will be discussed by the Assembly as soon as possible.

Mae cyfraniad angerddol Gwenda wedi gwneud argraff ar bawb. Bydd y Cynulliad yn rhoi ystyriaeth fuan i gylch gorchwyl, rôl a swyddogaethau comisiynydd plant. Mae dogfen ar yr agenda a bydd y Pwyllgor Iechyd a Gwasanaethau Cymdeithasol yn cyfarfod yfory. Yr wyf wedi siarad ag Andrew Davies, y Trefnydd, ac mae wedi rhoi sicrwydd i mi y bydd yn ceisio sicrhau trafodaeth gan y Cynulliad ar siarter y Cenhedloedd Unedig ar hawliau plant cyn gynted ag y bo modd.

We can achieve more and do better with increased funding. Nobody disputes that. However, we must be realistic about how much funding is available and ensure that it is put to best use. The Assembly will have to consider funding for the children’s strategy in the light of its other priorities. The First Secretary announced funding of £2.4 million for a childcare strategy in Wales in 1999-2000. Of this, £1.4 million will be distributed through local authorities to the 22 early years development and childcare partnerships, and £900,000 will go to the training and enterprise councils to provide infrastructure support for out-of-school childcare provision that will be eligible for funding from the New Opportunities Fund. In addition, £150,000 has been allocated to continue the under-fives initiative this year. There is also funding available from the New Opportunities Fund: £14.3 million between 1999 and 2003. We must ensure that Wales takes full advantage of this money. Sustainability and affordability are important issues that the Assembly will need to address. The New Opportunities Fund has the discretion to fund for longer than one year in areas of particular disadvantage. The working families tax credit to which Christine referred, will help working families with childcare costs. Childcare will be more affordable for a huge section of the population. I am confident that the opportunities to be gained from the structural fund programmes will be realised.

Gallwn gyflawni mwy a gwneud yn well o gael mwy o gyllid. Nid oes neb yn dadlau ynghylch hynny. Fodd bynnag, rhaid inni fod yn realistig ynghylch maint yr arian sydd ar gael a sicrhau’r defnydd gorau iddo. Bydd raid i’r Cynulliad ystyried ariannu’r strategaeth plant yng ngoleuni ei flaenoriaethau eraill. Cyhoeddodd y Prif Ysgrifennydd gyllid o £2.4 miliwn ar gyfer strategaeth gofal plant yng Nghymru yn 1999-2000. O hynny, fe ddosbarthir £1.4 miliwn drwy awdurdodau lleol i’r 22 o bartneriaethau datblygu’r blynyddoedd cynnar a gofal plant, a bydd £900,000 yn mynd i’r cynghorau hyfforddi a menter i ddarparu cefnogaeth i isadeiledd ar gyfer darpariaeth o ofal plant y tu allan i’r ysgol a fydd yn gymwys i dderbyn arian o’r Gronfa Cyfleoedd Newydd. Ar ben hynny, dyrannwyd £150,000 i barhau â’r cynllun i blant dan 5 oed eleni. Mae cyllid ar gael hefyd o’r Gronfa Cyfleoedd Newydd: £14.3 miliwn rhwng 1999 a 2003. Rhaid inni sicrhau bod Cymru’n manteisio i’r eithaf ar yr arian hwn. Mae cynaliadwyedd a fforddiadwyedd yn faterion pwysig y bydd raid i’r Cynulliad ymdrin â hwy. Mae rhyddid gan y Gronfa Cyfleoedd Newydd i ariannu am gyfnod hwy na blwyddyn mewn ardaloedd sydd dan anfantais arbennig. Bydd y credyd treth i deuluoedd sy’n gweithio, y cyfeiriodd Christine ato, yn helpu teuluoedd sy’n gweithio gyda chostau gofal plant. Bydd gofal plant yn fwy fforddiadwy i gyfran helaeth iawn o’r boblogaeth. Yr wyf yn hyderus y bydd y cyfleoedd sydd i’w cael drwy raglenni’r cronfeydd strwythurol yn cael eu gwireddu.

The European Task Force has taken strong heed of the representations it has received on the importance of enhanced childcare. I am aware that specific provision is being made in all programme activities for childcare provision. The programme provides a major opportunity for childcare to become widely available and regarded as an essential element of any economic development or training initiative. However, it must remain integrated within those wider developments and contribute to their success. Helen Mary raised several interesting issues, one in particular about the questionnaire. You were the only one Helen, who returned the questionnaire and you only said that you might be interested. I stand to be corrected on that.

Mae’r Gweithlu Ewropeaidd wedi cymryd sylw mawr o’r sylwadau a gyflwynwyd iddo ar bwysigrwydd gofal plant gwell. Yr wyf yn ymwybodol bod darpariaeth benodol yn cael ei gwneud yn holl weithgareddau’r rhaglen ar gyfer darparu gofal plant. Mae’r rhaglen yn rhoi cyfle mawr i sicrhau bod gofal plant ar gael ar raddfa eang a’i fod yn cael ei ystyried yn elfen hanfodol mewn unrhyw gynllun datblygu economaidd neu hyfforddi. Fodd bynnag, rhaid iddo aros yn rhan annatod o’r datblygiadau ehangach hynny a chyfrannu at eu llwyddiant. Codwyd sawl mater diddorol gan Helen Mary, un ohonynt yn ymwneud yn arbennig â’r holiadur. Chi, Helen, oedd yr unig un a ddychwelodd yr holiadur a chi oedd yr unig un a ddywedodd fod gennych ddiddordeb. Yr wyf yn barod i gael fy nghywiro ar hynny.

Helen Mary Jones spoken in English p. 70

Helen Mary Jones siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 70

The IT people told me that they only had six responses and two of those did not get elected. I suggested that we might need to ask the question again.

Fe ddywedodd y bobl TG wrthyf nad oeddent ond wedi derbyn chwe ateb a bod dau o’r rhai a atebodd heb eu hethol. Awgrymais ei bod yn bosibl y byddai angen inni ofyn y cwestiwn eto.

Rosemary Butler spoken in English p. 70

Rosemary Butler siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 70

I was told that it was only you. I understand that a new questionnaire will be distributed in the near future. Matters have moved on slightly because we are not talking only about creche facilities, but about day-care for visitors, which is important. I believe that there are baby-changing facilities in the ladies’ and gentlemen’s toilets on the ground floor. Again, I stand to be corrected because I have not been into the gents—[Interruption.] Yes, there are equal opportunities.

Fe ddywedwyd wrthyf mai chi oedd yr unig un. Yr wyf yn deall y bydd holiadur newydd yn cael ei ddosbarthu cyn hir. Mae pethau wedi symud ymlaen ryw ychydig ond nid ydym yn sôn am gyfleusterau meithrinfa yn unig, ond am ofal dydd i ymwelwyr, sydd yn bwysig. Yr wyf yn credu bod cyfleusterau newid clytiau babanod yn nhoiledau’r dynion a’r merched ar y llawr gwaelod. Unwaith eto, yr wyf yn barod i gael fy nghywiro oherwydd ni fûm yn nhoiledau’r dynion—[Torri ar draws.] Oes, mae yna gyfle cyfartal.

It is very important that the new building is family friendly. I know that several people are considering childcare provision, not only childcare for visitors and possible creche facilities, but there must be places where school children can relax and enjoy themselves, as well as take seriously the education reasons for their presence. That is very important. I would personally like to see a performance space outside the building so that more and more people could visit, and thus we, as well as them, could enjoy the day.

Mae’n bwysig iawn bod yr adeilad newydd yn addas i deuluoedd. Fe wn fod nifer o bobl yn ystyried darpariaeth gofal plant, nid yn unig gofal plant i ymwelwyr a chyfleusterau i feithrinfa o bosibl, ond rhaid cael mannau lle y gall plant ysgol ymlacio a mwynhau, yn ogystal â bod o ddifrif ynghylch y rhesymau addysgol dros fod yn bresennol yma. Mae hynny’n bwysig iawn. Yn bersonol, hoffwn weld man perfformio y tu allan i’r adeilad fel y gallai mwy a mwy ymweld, ac fel y gallem ni, a hwythau, fwynhau’r diwrnod.

The report has rightly highlighted the need for the review of the form of early-years education. A number of Members mentioned that this afternoon. The fact that the Under-16 Education Committee has already begun work and instigated a review on this issue is evidence of how seriously we take the matter and how urgently we believe that we must progress. We must resolve something within the year.

Mae’r adroddiad wedi tynnu sylw yn briodol at yr angen i adolygu ffurf addysg yn y blynyddoedd cynnar. Soniodd nifer o Aelodau am hynny brynhawn heddiw. Mae’r ffaith bod y Pwyllgor Addysg Cyn-16 eisoes wedi dechrau ar ei waith ac wedi dechrau adolygiad o’r mater hwn yn brawf o’n hymagwedd ddifrifol at y mater a’r pwys a roddwn ar symud ymlaen yn gyflym. Rhaid inni benderfynu rhywbeth o fewn y flwyddyn.

Mike German made several points, but in response to the concerns about the expansion of early education in the maintained sector, I tell him that the Government announced direct financial support for playgroups and an independent review of how they can develop their role in helping to expand early-years education and childcare. We will consider the findings of this review when they are made available in the autumn. It is important that we consider the voluntary sector, especially playgroups, and Cynog Dafis’ point on the Welsh-medium issue.

Gwnaeth Mike German sawl pwynt, ond mewn ymateb i’r pryderon ynghylch ehangu addysg gynnar yn y sector gwladol, yr wyf yn dweud wrtho fod y Llywodraeth wedi cyhoeddi cymorth ariannol uniongyrchol i grwpiau chwarae ac adolygiad annibynnol o’r modd y gallant ddatblygu eu rôl wrth helpu i ehangu addysg a gofal plant yn y blynyddoedd cynnar. Byddwn yn ystyried casgliadau’r adolygiad hwn pan fyddant ar gael yn yr hydref. Mae’n bwysig inni ystyried y sector gwirfoddol, yn enwedig grwpiau chwarae, a phwynt Cynog Dafis ar fater y Gymraeg fel cyfrwng.

There are a whole raft of matters that could be mentioned this afternoon, but many of them should be raised in the Committees, where they will obviously have to be debated at greater length. It is appropriate that we ensure that the relevant Committees deal with these matters as soon as possible.

Mae clwstwr mawr o faterion y gellid eu crybwyll brynhawn heddiw, ond dylai llawer ohonynt gael eu codi yn y Pwyllgorau, lle y bydd raid eu trafod yn hwy, wrth reswm. Mae’n briodol inni sicrhau bod y Pwyllgorau perthnasol yn delio â’r materion hyn cyn gynted ag y bo modd.

I thank everyone for a constructive debate this afternoon. I have no doubt that the role that I have been given—Children’s Minister is not quite the right term—of looking after children generally, will be made much easier by a total commitment from everybody here today and all parties. We have had an excellent debate, and I look forward to attending all the Committee meetings when the issues that we have discussed are raised.

Diolchaf i bawb am y ddadl adeiladol brynhawn heddiw. Nid oes amheuaeth gennyf y bydd y rôl a roddwyd i mi—nid Gweinidog Plant yw’r term iawn yn hollol—o ofalu am blant yn gyffredinol, yn cael ei hwyluso’n fawr drwy ymrwymiad llwyr gan bawb yma heddiw a’r holl bleidiau. Cawsom ddadl ragorol, ac edrychaf ymlaen at fynychu holl gyfarfodydd y Pwyllgorau pryd y codir y materion a drafodwyd gennym.

Michael German spoken in English p. 72

Michael German siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 72

By way of explanation, our amendment is intended to be inserted in the middle of the motion and, therefore, the final paragraph of the motion, which proposes remitting the report to Committees, would be retained.

Er mwyn rhoi eglurhad, y bwriad yw cynnwys ein gwelliant yng nghanol y cynnig ac, felly, bydd paragraff olaf y cynnig, sydd â’r bwriad o gyfeirio’r adroddiad i’r Pwyllgorau, yn cael ei gadw.

Dafydd Elis-Thomas The Presiding Officer spoken in English p. 72

Dafydd Elis-Thomas Y Llywydd siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 72

We had noticed that. We shall now take a vote on the amendment to the motion.

Yr oeddem wedi sylwi ar hynny. Yn awr fe gymerwn bleidlais ar y gwelliant i’r cynnig.

Gwelliant 1 Michael German t. 72

Amendment 1 Michael German p. 72

DerbyniwydAdopted Drwy ddangos dwyloShow of hands

Derbyniwyd y gwelliant.

Amendment accepted.

Dafydd Elis-Thomas The Presiding Officer spoken in English p. 72

Dafydd Elis-Thomas Y Llywydd siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 72

We shall now take a vote on the amended motion.

Yn awr fe gymerwn bleidlais ar y cynnig gyda’r gwelliant.

Cynnig Jane Hutt t. 72

Motion Jane Hutt p. 72

DerbyniwydAdopted Drwy ddangos dwyloShow of hands

Derbyniwyd y cynnig gyda’r gwelliant.

Amended motion adopted

Dadl Fer ar Brofion Llygaid am Ddim

Short Debate on Free Eye Tests

Jenny Randerson spoken in English p. 72

Jenny Randerson siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 72

Despite the comments of Ieuan Wyn Jones this afternoon and our earlier discussion, I make no apology for the topic that I have selected this week. This slot provides a valuable opportunity to raise important, but relatively detailed issues, which would otherwise not get an airing in our crowded agenda. Last week, we disposed of social exclusion in a couple of hours; this afternoon, we disposed of childcare in an hour and a half. We are not likely to get down to detailed issues like free eye tests very often. Of course, I shall allow representatives of other parties to speak at the end of my remarks if they wish to do so because I do not plan to take the whole of my allotted time.

Er gwaethaf sylwadau Ieuan Wyn Jones brynhawn heddiw a’r drafodaeth a gawsom yn gynharach, nid wyf yn ymddiheuro am y pwnc a ddewisais yr wythnos hon. Mae’r rhicyn amser hwn yn rhoi cyfle pwysig i godi materion pwysig, ond eithaf manwl na fyddent fel arall yn cael eu gwyntyllu yn ein hagenda prysur. Yr wythnos diwethaf, cawsom wared â dieithrwch cymdeithasol mewn awr neu ddwy; brynhawn heddiw, cawsom wared â gofal plant mewn awr a hanner. Nid ydym yn debygol o roi sylw i faterion manwl fel profion llygaid am ddim yn aml iawn. Wrth gwrs, byddaf yn caniatáu i gynrychiolwyr pleidiau eraill siarad ar ddiwedd fy sylwadau os dymunant wneud hynny oherwydd nid wyf yn bwriadu defnyddio’r cwbl o’r amser a ddyrannwyd i mi.

We all know that public spending per head on health is higher in Wales than in England.

Fe wyddom oll fod gwariant y pen ar iechyd yn uwch yng Nghymru nag yn Lloegr.

Possibly the most intractable problem we will face as an Assembly is the spiralling health budget, with health authorities such as Dyfed Powys and Bro Taf , which is in my constituency in Cardiff, struggling to cope with demand, while Wales suffers from more ill health than England.

Efallai mai’r broblem fwyaf annatrys a wynebwn fel Cynulliad yw’r cynnydd graddol yn y gyllideb iechyd, gydag awdurdodau iechyd fel Dyfed Powys a Bro Taf, sydd yn f’etholaeth i yng Nghaerdydd, yn ei chael yn anodd i ymdopi â’r galw, tra bydd Cymru’n dioddef mwy o iechyd gwael na Lloegr.

We spend more, without tackling the problem at source.

Byddwn yn gwario mwy, heb fynd i’r afael â’r broblem sylfaenol.

We need to start turning our health service round, so that it ceases to be an ill-health service and places much more emphasis on preventing ill health and promoting good health. To do that, we have to change not only public attitudes, but the funding and structure of the national health service.

Mae angen inni ddechrau troi’n gwasanaeth iechyd yn ei gylch, fel ei fod yn peidio â bod yn wasanaeth afiechyd ac yn rhoi mwy o bwyslais ar atal afiechyd a hybu iechyd da. I wneud hynny, rhaid inni newid agweddau meddwl y cyhoedd, a hefyd ariannu a strwythur y gwasanaeth iechyd gwladol.

The motion singles out eye tests as a simple, effective and relatively inexpensive way of developing preventative medicine in Wales. In 1988-89, 733,000 eye tests were undertaken on the NHS in Wales. Last year, it was only 477,000—a fall of more than a third in 10 years. Why is that the case when the demand for everything else in the health service is increasing? The simple answer is that, from 1 April 1989, free eye tests were restricted to certain groups of people. That news was greeted by protests, not least from the Labour Party. In that year, the number of eye tests fell from 733,000 to 292,000. The number of eye tests that are undertaken each year has increased only gradually from that time. That massive fall is eloquent testimony to the deterrent effect of charges.

Mae’r cynnig yn dethol profion llygaid fel modd syml, effeithiol a chymharol rad o ddatblygu meddygaeth ataliol yng Nghymru. Yn 1988-89, ymgymerwyd â 733,000 o brofion llygaid o dan yr NHS yng Nghymru. Llynedd, nid oedd ond 477,000—gostyngiad o fwy nag un rhan o dair mewn 10 mlynedd. Pam y mae hyn yn digwydd pan fo’r galw am bopeth arall yn y gwasanaeth iechyd yn cynyddu? Yr ateb syml yw bod profion llygaid am ddim wedi eu cyfyngu, o 1 Ebrill 1989, i rai grwpiau o bobl. Cafwyd protestiadau yn erbyn y newydd hwnnw, nid lleiaf gan y Blaid Lafur. Y flwyddyn honno, bu gostyngiad yn nifer y profion llygaid o 733,000 i 292,000. Ni chafwyd ond cynnydd graddol yn nifer y profion llygaid a gyflawnwyd ym mhob blwyddyn wedi hynny. Mae’r gostyngiad enfawr hwnnw yn dystiolaeth lafar iawn i effaith ataliol codi taliadau.

You could say that there are now so many groups that do not have to pay—for example, all children under 16, students in full-time education who are under 19, people on jobseekers’ allowance and those on income support—that there is not much point in worrying about the others. I congratulate the Government on at least restoring on 1 April free eye tests for people over 60. That was an important step, but I wish that the Government had gone further.

Fe allech ddweud bod cymaint o grwpiau nad oes raid iddynt dalu—er enghraifft, pob plentyn o dan 16 oed, myfyrwyr mewn addysg lawn-amser o dan 19 oed, pobl sy’n derbyn lwfans chwiliwr swydd a rhai sy’n derbyn cymorth incwm—fel nad oes diben ymboeni am y lleill. Llongyfarchaf y Llywodraeth am o leiaf adfer profion llygaid am ddim i rai dros 60 oed ar 1 Ebrill. Yr oedd hynny’n gam pwysig, ond byddai’n dda gennyf pe bai’r Llywodraeth wedi mynd ymhellach.

So far, the message about free eye tests does not seem to have got through. The first couple of months of free eye tests for pensioners have not led to the rush to the optician—at least not in Cardiff—that might have been expected. At least, efforts should be made to publicise free eye tests for pensioners better. However, the root of the problem is that people are confused about their entitlements. Confusion discourages participation.

Nid yw’n ymddangos, hyd yn hyn, fod y neges am brofion llygaid am ddim wedi cyrraedd y nod. Nid yw’r ddau fis cyntaf o brofion llygaid am ddim i bensiynwyr wedi arwain at y rhuthr am yr optegydd—yng Nghaerdydd o leiaf—y gallesid ei ddisgwyl. Fe ddylid o leiaf wneud ymdrech i roi cyhoeddusrwydd gwell i brofion llygaid am ddim i bensiynwyr. Fodd bynnag, gwraidd y broblem yw bod pobl yn teimlo’n ddryslyd ynghylch eu hawliau. Mae dryswch yn anogaeth i beidio â chymryd rhan.

It has always surprised me that while we accept preventative dentistry, with regular check-ups, we do not have the same approach to opticians. The difficulties of obtaining national health service dental care have received far more publicity than free eye tests and visits to the optician. We do not visit the optician until we can no longer see the words on the page in front of us. I say that as someone who is reading from print that is slightly larger than normal, which enables me to read as I speak.

Mae’n peri syndod imi erioed, er ein bod yn derbyn deintyddiaeth ataliol, gyda gwiriadau rheolaidd, nad ydym yn ymwneud yn yr un modd ag optegwyr. Rhoddwyd llawer mwy o gyhoeddusrwydd i’r trafferthion a geir wrth geisio cael gofal deintyddol o dan y gwasanaeth iechyd gwladol nag i brofion llygaid am ddim ac ymweliadau i’r optegydd. Ni fyddwn yn mynd at yr optegydd hyd nes byddwn yn methu â gweld y geiriau ar y tudalen o’n blaen. Fe ddywedaf hynny fel rhywun sydd yn darllen print sydd ychydig mwy na’r arfer, sy’n fy ngalluogi i ddarllen wrth imi siarad.

An eye test is recommended every two years. However, one in 10 adults have never had an eye test, and one in five children are believed to have undetected visual problems.

Argymhellir cymryd prawf llygaid bob dwy flynedd. Fodd bynnag, mae un ym mhob 10 o oedolion heb gael prawf llygaid erioed, a chredir bod problemau golwg heb eu canfod gan un plentyn ym mhob pump.

Not only poor vision, but more serious problems, such as glaucoma and cataracts, which cause long-term damage, are undetected. Eye examinations are also important for our general health, and can reveal signs of diabetes and hypertension.

Yn ogystal â golwg gwael, bydd problemau mwy difrifol, fel glawcoma a chataractau, sy’n peri niwed tymor-hir, heb eu canfod. Mae archwiliadau o’r llygaid hefyd yn bwysig i’n hiechyd cyffredinol, a gallant ddangos arwyddion o’r clefyd siwgwr a phwysedd gwaed uchel.

Let us consider glaucoma. It affects about 2 per cent of the population and its onset is most likely to occur when people are in their 40s. Therefore, unless you receive some kind of benefit, or belong to a family that is already affected by glaucoma—and thus receive free tests—you would not be eligible for free eye tests at the age when it is most important to have them. Glaucoma is a gradual condition, which you do not notice at first. It is progressive and incurable and narrows the field of vision. Once lost, that cannot be regained. However, once detected, it can be stabilised. The earlier it is detected, the better, because it can be treated effectively.

Gadewch inni ystyried glawcoma. Mae’n effeithio ar oddeutu 2 y cant o’r boblogaeth ac mae’n fwyaf tebygol o ddechrau pan fydd pobl yn eu 40au. Felly, os nad ydych yn derbyn rhyw fath o fudd-dal, neu’n perthyn i deulu sydd eisoes wedi ei effeithio gan glawcoma—ac felly’n derbyn profion llygaid am ddim—ni fyddai hawl gennych i dderbyn profion llygaid am ddim yn yr oed pryd y mae’n bwysicaf eu cael. Mae glawcoma yn gyflwr graddol, na fyddwch yn sylwi arno i ddechrau. Mae’n raddol ac yn anwelladwy ac mae’n culhau’r maes gwelediad. Ar ôl ei golli, ni ellir ei adfer. Fodd bynnag, ar ôl ei ddarganfod, fe ellir ei sefydlogi. Gorau po gyntaf y caiff ei ddarganfod, oherwydd gellir ei drin yn effeithiol.

There are a number of reasons why people do not bother to go to the opticians—fear, vanity about wearing glasses and so on. However, an important reason deterring people from having eye tests is the charge, which is between £13 and £17. Yesterday, there was a great deal of news about the BMA’s suggestion of paying £10 to visit the doctor. There was, quite rightly, massive opposition to that, as a charge would deter people who need to visit their GP. It would be difficult or impossible for many people to find that kind of money. Even those on restricted incomes who do not receive benefits would find that difficult to pay. The argument put by opponents of this plan in the BMA, the media and so on, was that illnesses would be neglected until they became serious. The same argument applies to eye tests.

Mae nifer o resymau pam na fydd pobl yn trafferthu mynd at yr optegydd—ofn, amharodrwydd i wisgo sbectol oherwydd balchder ac yn y blaen. Fodd bynnag, un rheswm pwysig sy’n atal pobl rhag cael profion llygaid yw’r tâl a godir, sydd rhwng £13 a £17. Ddoe, yr oedd llawer o sôn yn y newyddion am awgrym y BMA i godi £10 am ymweliad â’r meddyg. Yr oedd gwrthwynebiad enfawr i hynny, yn briodol iawn, oherwydd y byddai tâl yn atal pobl y mae arnynt angen ymweld â’u meddyg teulu. Byddai’n anodd neu’n amhosibl i lawer o bobl gael hyd i arian o’r fath. Byddai hyd yn oed rhai ar incwm bach, nad ydynt yn derbyn budd-daliadau, yn ei chael yn anodd talu hynny. Y ddadl a gyflwynir gan y rhai sy’n gwrthwynebu’r cynllun hwn yn y BMA, y cyfryngau ac yn y blaen, yw y byddai afiechydon yn cael eu hesgeuluso nes datblygu’n rhai difrifol. Mae’r un ddadl yn berthnasol i brofion llygaid.

The constructive way forward is to abolish the charges and voice a loud and clear message that all eye tests are free. In an ideal world, I would like to go further and discuss free dental checks as well, but I thought one proposal was enough for this afternoon. After all, we have free cervical smear tests in the fight against cancer, and we support the provision of free family planning guidance. There are many aspects of preventive health care that we support. Illnesses like glaucoma, diabetes, hypertension and cataracts absorb national health service funds and could be dealt with, in part, by the provision of free services as preventive measures in the same way as the other services I mentioned.

Y ffordd adeiladol ymlaen yw dileu’r taliadau a datgan neges yn uchel ac yn eglur bod pob prawf llygaid am ddim. Mewn byd delfrydol, hoffwn fynd ymhellach a thrafod gwiriadau deintyddol am ddim hefyd, ond teimlwn fod un cynnig yn ddigon i’r prynhawn hwn. Wedi’r cyfan, yr ydym yn cael profion rhwbiad o’r groth am ddim yn y frwydr yn erbyn canser, ac yr ydym yn cefnogi darparu arweiniad cynllunio teulu am ddim. Mae llawer agwedd ar ofal iechyd ataliol y byddwn yn eu cefnogi. Mae afiechydon fel glawcoma, clefyd siwgwr, pwysedd gwaed uchel a chataractau’n llyncu cyllid y gwasanaeth iechyd gwladol a gellid delio â hwy, yn rhannol, drwy ddarparu gwasanaethau am ddim fel mesurau ataliol yn yr un modd â’r gwasanaethau eraill a grybwyllais.

As part of the overall health budget for Wales, the amount concerned is relatively small. Last year 477,000 eye tests in Wales cost £6.7 million. There are no figures for the number of eye tests carried out privately in Wales, but there is an annual survey of opticians’ workload in Britain, which shows that 50 per cent of eye tests are carried out on the national health service. That number is expected to increase to 60 per cent now that people over 60 are eligible. It is possible to estimate that free eye tests may not quite double the amount discussed. We should not be frightened to take a separate route from England. If we are, what is the point of devolution and why are we here? There are many ways to ensure that there is no big tourist trade in Wales in visits to the optician from England.

O’i ystyried fel rhan o’r gyllideb iechyd gyffredinol i Gymru, mae’r swm dan sylw yn gymharol fach. Cost 477,000 o brofion llygaid yng Nghymru llynedd oedd £6.7 miliwn. Nid oes ffigurau am y nifer o brofion llygaid a gyflawnwyd yn breifat yng Nghymru, ond fe geir arolwg blynyddol o lwyth gwaith optegwyr ym Mhrydain, sy’n dangos bod 50 y cant o’r profion llygaid yn cael eu cyflawni o dan y gwasanaeth iechyd gwladol. Disgwylir i’r nifer hwnnw godi i 60 y cant gan fod pobl dros 60 oed bellach yn gymwys. Gellir amcangyfrif na fydd profion llygaid am ddim lawn cymaint â dwywaith y nifer a drafodwyd. Ni ddylem ofni dilyn llwybr gwahanol i’r un yn Lloegr. Os oes arnom ofn, beth yw diben datganoli a pham yr ydym yma? Mae llawer ffordd i sicrhau na fydd masnach dwristaidd fawr yng Nghymru oherwydd ymweliadau â’r optegydd o Loegr.

I urge you to support this motion. It follows on directly from last weeks’ discussion on social exclusion. That is not always caused by low income or poor education, it is also caused by poor health, eyesight and hearing. They are all part of the social exclusion picture. We need to signal that we are taking a fresh view of health in Wales and that prevention is better than cure. I believe that money spent in this way will be well spent. I beg you to support the motion.

Yr wyf yn eich cymell i gefnogi’r cynnig hwn. Mae’n dilyn yn uniongyrchol o’r drafodaeth yr wythnos diwethaf ar ddieithrwch cymdeithasol. Nid yw hynny wedi ei achosi bob amser gan incwm isel neu addysg wael; fe’i hachosir hefyd gan iechyd, golwg a chlyw gwael. Maent oll yn rhan o’r darlun o ddieithrwch cymdeithasol. Mae angen inni ddangos ein bod yn cymryd golwg newydd ar iechyd yng Nghymru a bod atal yn well na gwella. Credaf y bydd arian a werir fel hyn wedi ei wario’n ddoeth. Apeliaf arnoch i gefnogi’r cynnig.

David Lloyd siaradwyd yn Gymraeg t. 76

David Lloyd spoken in Welsh p. 76

Diolch i Jenny am ddatganiad da iawn. Yn naturiol, yr ydym yn cytuno gant y cant ag egwyddor profion llygaid am ddim. Pe bai amser yn caniatáu, byddwn yn mynd yn emosiynol, yn sgîl fy mhrofiad fel meddyg, ynghylch yr anawsterau y mae pobl yn eu hwynebu a’r holl glefydau erchyll sydd yn bodoli, megis glawcoma sy’n gallu gwneud pobl yn dall, pwysau gwaed uchel a chlefyd siwgr. Ni ddylem ddibrisio difrifoldeb y clefydau hyn. Mae galwadau am brofion llygaid am ddim wedi ymddangos mewn sawl maniffesto gan Blaid Cymru dros y blynyddoedd.

Thank you to Jenny for a very good statement. Naturally, we agree 100 per cent with the principle of free eye tests. If time allowed, I would become emotional, following my experiences as a GP, with the difficulties people face and the dreadful diseases that exist, such as glaucoma, which can blind, hypertension and diabetes. We cannot underestimate the seriousness of these diseases. Calls for free eye tests have appeared in a number of Plaid Cymru manifestos over the years.

Fel yr awgrymodd Ieuan eisoes, mae gennym broblem drefnyddol. Mae Jenny wedi cael amser i amlinellu ei safiad a chytunaf â’r safiad hwnnw. Munud yn unig sydd gennym, fel Aelodau o’r Wrthblaid, i fod yr un mor emosiynol ac i gyfrannu at ddadl bolisi bwysig, sydd hefyd yn mynd i glymu’r Cynulliad hwn i oblygiadau ariannol rhwng £5 a £10 miliwn. Felly, mae angen trafodaeth agored, eang ynghylch blaenoriaethau eraill yn y maes iechyd. Ychydig iawn o arian sydd gennym i’w wario. Mae gwario arian ar y mater hwn yn golygu nad oes gennym arian i’w wario mewn meysydd eraill. Mae angen trafodaeth eang ar holl oblygiadau iechyd yn y Pwyllgor Iechyd a Gwasanaethau Cymdeithasol.

As Ieuan suggested, our problem is an organisational one. Jenny had time to outline her viewpoint and I agree with it. However, as Opposition Members, we only have a minute to be equally emotional and contribute to a serious policy debate, which will tie this Assembly to financial obligations of between £5 and £10 million. We therefore need an open and extensive discussion on other health priorities. We have a limited amount of money to spend. Spending on this matter means that we have no money to spend on other fields. We need an extensive discussion on all health implications in the Committee for Health and Social Services.

Gofynnaf i Jane Hutt roi’r pwnc sylweddol hwn gerbron y Pwyllgor fel y bydd pob plaid yn gallu cymryd rhan mewn trafodaeth lawer ehangach a thecach. Yn y cyfasmer, bydd Plaid Cymru yn atal ei phleidlais, gan nad yw hon yn ffordd i greu polisi yn y Cynulliad. Er ein bod yn cytuno â’r polisi, fe ddylai fod trafodaeth sylweddol a theg i ystyried ei oblygiadau.

I ask Jane Hutt to put this substantial topic before the Committee so that every party can take part in an extensive and fair discussion. In the meantime, Plaid Cymru will abstain, because this is not the way to create policy in the Assembly. Although we agree with the policy, there should be a substantial and fair discussion to consider its implications.

David Melding spoken in English p. 77

David Melding siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 77

Whenever I say anything vaguely heterodox, I am accused of desiring the Labour whip, if that is not too titillating a way of putting it.

Pryd bynnag y byddaf yn dweud unrhyw beth sydd fymryn yn anuniongred, fe gaf fy nghyhuddo o ddymuno derbyn chwip Llafur, os nad yw hynny’n ddweud rhy ogleisiol.

We will abstain on this issue, although the need for preventive health measures is now well appreciated. We place appropriate emphasis on this issue. Promoting well-being is also a driving force of health policy. Some of the figures quoted are worthy of further consideration. There are resource implications in this issue and we, therefore, need time to consider it. I do not rule out supporting it in future. The Conservative Party must reflect on the fact that it introduced these charges. However, we are quite open to ways of developing policy in the framework of promoting well-being and preventing ill-health.

Byddwn yn ymatal ar y mater hwn, er bod cydnabyddiaeth dda bellach o’r angen am fesurau iechyd ataliol. Yr ydym yn rhoi pwys priodol ar y mater hwn. Mae hybu lles yn brif elfen hefyd mewn polisi iechyd. Mae rhai o’r ffigurau a ddyfynnwyd yn werth eu hystyried ymhellach. Mae goblygiadau o ran adnoddau yn y mater hwn a bydd arnom angen amser, felly, i’w ystyried. Nid wyf yn diystyru’r posibiliad o’i gefnogi yn y dyfodol. Rhaid i’r Blaid Geidwadol ystyried y ffaith mai hi a gyflwynodd y taliadau hyn. Fodd bynnag, yr ydym yn eithaf agored i ddulliau newydd o ddatblygu polisi o fewn fframwaith o hybu lles ac atal afiechyd.

Jane Hutt The Secretary for Health and Social Services spoken in English p. 78

Jane Hutt Yr Ysgrifennydd dros Iechyd a Gwasanaethau Cymdeithasol siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 78

This is a very important topic, which, as Secretary for Health and Social Services, I am glad to start discussing; it must be a question of starting to discuss it. As Dai Lloyd said, one minute is not sufficient to allow a proper debate. My remarks will focus on the appropriateness of using a short debate for such an important discussion. However, I will comment on some points raised.

Mae hwn yn bwnc pwysig iawn ac yn un yr wyf fi, fel yr Ysgrifennydd dros Iechyd a Gwasanaethau Cymdeithasol, yn falch o ddechrau ei drafod; rhaid iddo fod yn fater o ddechrau ei drafod. Fel y dywedodd Dai Lloyd, nid yw un munud yn ddigon i ganiatáu dadl briodol. Yn fy sylwadau byddaf yn canolbwyntio ar y priodoldeb o ddefnyddio dadl fer ar gyfer trafodaeth bwysig o’r fath. Fodd bynnag, fe fyddaf yn rhoi sylwadau ar rai o’r pwyntiau a godwyd.

Free tests were available until 1 April 1989, when charges were introduced. I have it on good authority that three Liberal Democrat MPs failed to turn up for the controversial vote, which also attracted some Tory rebels. I will name people if you press me. That is politics, and I am sure you know their identities. I am amused by David saying that his party will reconsider this issue, although it introduced the charges. People outside Government can always reconsider these issues. In our budgetary and health and social services discussions we must consider our range of options against a demanding health and social services agenda, acute ill-health and our agreement to tackle health inequalities. We want a primary-led health service concentrating on preventive health care. We have tough decisions to make and the Health and Social Services Committee should allow adequate time to consider those challenges.

Yr oedd profion am ddim ar gael tan 1 Ebrill 1989, pryd y cyflwynwyd taliadau. Fe’i cefais o le da bod tri o ASau’r Democratiaid Rhyddfrydol wedi methu ymddangos ar gyfer y bleidlais ddadleuol, a ddenodd rai rebeliaid Torïaidd hefyd. Fe enwaf rai os pwyswch arnaf. Peth felly yw gwleidyddiaeth, ac yr wyf yn sicr eich bod yn gwybod pwy ydynt. Yr wyf yn ei chael yn ddigrif bod David yn dweud y bydd ei blaid ef yn ailystyried y mater hwn, er mai hi a gyflwynodd y taliadau. Fe all rhai y tu allan i Lywodraeth bob amser ailystyried y materion hyn. Yn ein trafodaethau ar y gyllideb ac ar iechyd a’r gwasanaethau cymdeithasol, rhaid inni ystyried yr ystod o ddewisiadau sydd gennym ochr yn ochr ag agenda iechyd a gwasanaethau cymdeithasol trwm, afiechyd aciwt a’n cytundeb i fynd i’r afael ag anghydraddoldebau mewn iechyd. Yr ydym am gael gwasanaeth iechyd dan arweiniad gofal cynradd sy’n canolbwyntio ar ofal iechyd ataliol. Mae gennym benderfyniadau anodd i’w gwneud a dylai’r Pwyllgor Iechyd a Gwasanaethau Cymdeithasol ganiatáu digon o amser i ystyried y sialensau hynny.

Through this short debate, we have been given the opportunity to ensure that people over the age of 60, entitled to a free test, will make use of it. For the Assembly’s benefit, I draw attention to the fact that 655,450 people over 60 could benefit from the new introduction of free tests from 1 April. That is an important point for the Committee. How can we ensure that pensioners take advantage of these free eye tests? That is a lot of people: some 22 per cent of the Welsh population will benefit from the Labour Government’s introduction of free tests for people over 60.

Drwy’r ddadl fer hon yr ydym wedi cael cyfle i sicrhau y bydd pobl dros 60 oed, sydd â hawl i gael prawf am ddim, yn arfer yr hawl honno. Er budd y Cynulliad, yr wyf yn tynnu sylw at y ffaith y gallai 655,450 o bobl dros 60 oed fod ar eu hennill o ganlyniad i gyflwyno profion am ddim o 1 Ebrill. Mae hynny’n bwynt pwysig i’r Pwyllgor. Sut y gallwn sicrhau bod pensiynwyr yn manteisio ar y cyfle hwn i gael prawf llygaid am ddim? Mae hynny’n nifer fawr o bobl: bydd tua 22 y cant o boblogaeth Cymru’n elwa ar gyflwyno profion am ddim i rai dros 60 oed gan y Llywodraeth Lafur.

Let us concentrate today on how to ensure that they are used. As Jenny said, free eye tests are available for people under 16 and over 60, young people under 19 if they are in full-time education, those on income support or family credit and the partially sighted. Those who are diagnosed as diabetic or with glaucoma, as well as close relatives of diagnosed glaucoma patients aged 40 or over, are also entitled to free eye tests. With good screening from GPs and a good primary care led health service, we should be able to detect people who may be in danger of these diseases.

Gadewch inni ganolbwyntio heddiw ar y modd i sicrhau defnydd arnynt. Fel y dywedodd Jenny, mae profion llygaid am ddim ar gael i bobl o dan 16 oed a dros 60 oed, pobl ifanc dan 19 oed os ydynt mewn addysg lawn-amser, rhai ar gymorth incwm neu gredyd teulu a rhai â golwg rhannol. Mae hawl i gael prawf llygaid am ddim hefyd gan rai y canfyddir bod arnynt glefyd siwgwr neu glawcoma, yn ogystal â pherthnasau agos i gleifion y canfyddir bod arnynt glawcoma sy’n 40 oed neu’n fwy. Gyda sgrinio da gan feddygon teulu a gwasanaeth iechyd da dan arweiniad gofal cynradd, dylem allu canfod pobl a allai fod mewn perygl oddi wrth y clefydau hyn.

Let us make use of the debate that we have had. It is vital that we ensure that this large number—over 600,000 people—take advantage of these new tests. We know that those who pay for eye tests are basically people of working age from families with an income above benefit level. From 1 April the population entitlement to new NHS tests has risen from 40 per cent to 60 per cent. When we come to debate this and our other challenges in the budget discussions, there is an estimate that it will cost £12 million a year if extended free NHS eye tests are given to the whole population. We have to take those kinds of figures into the context of the tough challenges that we face in the health service. Given the fact that £1 billion extra has been put into the NHS by the Labour Government, we still have tremendously tough challenges ahead if we are going to turn the NHS into a health service that is tackling ill-health, inequality and providing preventative health care.

Gadewch inni wneud defnydd o’r ddadl a gawsom. Mae’n hollbwysig inni sicrhau bod y nifer fawr yma—dros 600,000 o bobl—yn manteisio ar y profion newydd hyn. Gwyddom mai’r rhai sy’n talu am brofion llygaid yn y bôn yw pobl mewn oed gweithio o deuluoedd sydd ag incwm uwchlaw’r lefel budd-daliadau. Oddi ar 1 Ebrill mae’r gyfran o’r boblogaeth sydd â hawl i dderbyn profion newydd yr NHS wedi codi o 40 y cant i 60 y cant. Pan ddeuwn i drafod hyn a’n sialensau eraill yn y trafodaethau ar y gyllideb, fe amcangyfrifir y bydd yn costio £12 miliwn y flwyddyn os rhoddir profion llygaid estynedig di-dâl yr NHS i’r boblogaeth gyfan. Rhaid inni ystyried ffigurau o’r fath yng nghyd-destun y sialensau anodd a wynebwn yn y gwasanaeth iechyd. Gan wybod bod £1 biliwn yn ychwanegol wedi ei roi i’r NHS gan y Llywodraeth Lafur, mae gennym sialensau aruthrol o anodd o’n blaen o hyd os ydym i droi’r NHS yn wasanaeth iechyd sy’n mynd i’r afael ag afiechyd, anghydraddoldeb ac yn darparu gofal iechyd ataliol.

Thank you Jenny for bringing this to our attention. We must make more of this new provision for free eye tests for the over 60’s. It is the age when a great deal of ill-health and difficulty occurs. Let us ensure that people make use of free eye tests. Let us ensure that this is part of our debate about our budgetary priorities in the coming year. As far as this resolution is concerned, we cannot support it for the reasons set out so ably by Ieuan Wyn Jones and Dai Lloyd. This is a big debate that has to be put in the context of a policy discussion on budgetary priorities. A short debate is not a place for that, although we can start a discussion as a result of it. On that basis, we do not accept the resolution but look forward to further great debates on the subject at another time.

Diolch, Jenny, am ddod â hyn i’n sylw. Rhaid inni wneud mwy o’r ddarpariaeth newydd hon o brofion llygaid am ddim i rai dros 60 oed. Mae’n oedran pryd y bydd llawer iawn o afiechyd ac anhawster yn digwydd. Gadewch inni sicrhau bod pobl yn defnyddio profion llygaid am ddim. Gadewch inni sicrhau bod hyn yn rhan o’n trafodaeth am ein blaenoriaethau yn y gyllideb yn y flwyddyn sydd i ddod. Gyda golwg ar y cynnig hwn, ni allwn ei gefnogi am y rhesymau a nodwyd mor fedrus gan Ieuan Wyn Jones a Dai Lloyd. Mae hon yn ddadl fawr y bydd raid ei rhoi yng nghyd-destun trafodaeth bolisi ar flaenoriaethau yn y gyllideb. Nid dadl fer yw’r lle i hynny, er y gallwn ddechrau trafodaeth o ganlyniad iddi. Ar y sail honno, nid ydym yn derbyn y cynnig ond edrychwn ymlaen at ddadleuon mawr pellach ar y pwnc ar adeg arall.

Pleidlais t. 80

Vote p. 80

GwrthodwydRejected Drwy ddangos dwyloShow of hands

Gwrthodwyd y cynnig.

Motion rejected.

Dafydd Elis-Thomas Y Llywydd siaradwyd yn Gymraeg t. 80

Dafydd Elis-Thomas The Presiding Officer spoken in Welsh p. 80

Dyna ddiwedd gweithgareddau heddiw. Yr wyf yn dod â’r sesiwn i ben.

That is the end of today’s activities. I draw the session to a close.

Daeth y sesiwn i ben am 4:50 p.m.

The session ended at 4:50 p.m.