I promised to keep the Assembly informed about dispersal arrangements for asylum seekers in Wales, so I will report on the present position. I state at this juncture that this is a moveable feast, every week of the year and every day. Therefore, I will probably update this statement over the Christmas recess.

The number of asylum seekers arriving in Wales under the dispersal arrangements continues to be low. Around 30 asylum seekers are being provided with support and accommodation through a private sector contractor in Wrexham. Twenty asylum seekers, who live with family or friends, receive support-only packages in south Wales, mainly in Cardiff.

However, the number of asylum seekers is expected to increase in the new year. I understand that Cardiff City and County Council will shortly sign a contract with National Asylum Support Services to provide 350 units of accommodation for asylum seekers in the next 12 months. I also understand that asylum seekers may now be accommodated in Adams Court. While Cardiff council has concluded contract negotiations with NASS, the situation for the all-Wales consortia remains unclear.

The NASS contract with private sector providers restricts them to procuring accommodation only in designated cluster areas in Wales where it is judged that adequate support arrangements are in place. NASS has carried out a review on whether the number of designated cluster areas should be increased from those already agreed, namely Bridgend, Cardiff, Newport, Swansea and Wrexham. It concluded that no areas will be added to the list in the near future. NASS has also given an undertaking that it will consult with local authorities and the Assembly, before giving its approval, where private sector contractors are planning to acquire properties of six or more beds.

I am advised that an agreement has now been reached between local authorities and NASS about the management fee that they will receive for taking on the responsibility for managing the disbenefited. That is, where asylum seekers’ state benefits have been stopped because they have received a negative decision about their immigration status but have decided to appeal against that decision. Local authorities have been informed that they can make emergency payments to families with children who apply to them while they await a decision from NASS about whether it will support them. It is estimated that there are about 200 such cases in Wales. I hope that statement is of interest to the National Assembly.

I am grateful for that statement. I am sure that the Assembly appreciates your regular updates on these issues. We welcome the commitment that you have obtained to consultation over the large-scale use of private contractors. That has been a matter of concern. With regard to the support arrangements for asylum seekers, and in the light of your comments about expecting many more asylum seekers in the near future, how confident are you that the full support arrangements are in place and that asylum seekers will get the support that they need? What discussions have you had with specific local authorities about those support arrangements? With regard to those asylum seekers who are disbenefited, will local government be reimbursed for the emergency payments that they make? If so, I presume that they will be reimbursed by the Home Office and not by the Government of Wales. Do you expect the numbers of asylum seekers in this category to rise over the coming months?

You have asked several questions that I cannot answer at this juncture, concerning the reimbursement of local authorities, which I am currently pursuing, and the necessary support arrangements. It is clear from the last but one meeting of the Partnership Council that local authorities were concerned about the arrangements and the necessary support provided. As a result, in conjunction with Sir Harry Jones of the Welsh Local Government Association, I wrote to the Home Office to express some of our reservations within those areas. I am hopeful of arranging a meeting in the new year to discuss some of our concerns regarding these issues.

Regarding the wider issues, Helen, it is essential that my officials continue to keep up the work that they have undertaken in maintaining close liaisons with NASS. It is also essential that Assembly Members pass on any information that they gather in their communities. It is a difficult area to control and I am sure that many questions need to be answered, particularly in respect of the dis-benefited. I cannot give you precise numbers or any indications of increase. The fact that I cannot answer certain questions indicates, perhaps, the frustration that we feel in dealing with the issue of asylum and immigration. We, in the National Assembly, want to be welcoming to ensure that we can deal with these matters properly, but we must ensure that that commitment is reciprocated.

The Welsh Conservatives are grateful for the update on the situation with regard to dispersal arrangements for asylum seekers and we welcome your commitment to continue those updates. We understand the difficulties that you are experiencing. However, we ask you to restate your commitment to monitor these arrangements, particularly with regard to education and social services, where clearly additional costs will fall on local authorities. I appreciate that you cannot give an exact figure as to what those costs will be, but I would welcome an undertaking that you will report to this Assembly as soon as possible when those are known.

Thank you for those points, William. I will continue to report to the National Assembly. I am reminded by your contribution to formally write to local authorities to ask them for an indication of any costs that they might have already incurred. I will also ask if, to aid future reporting mechanisms, they could provide any indications in a proper, structured way so that we can establish whether any costs are being incurred of which we are not aware.

With regard to the disbenefited, I quote from the latter section of your statement:

‘Local authorities have been informed that they can make emergency payments to families with children’.

Is it not the case that a local authority has a statutory responsibility for the accommodation and welfare of children in need in their areas, whatever their status?

The simple answer to that question is ‘yes’. That is my understanding of the legal position regarding local authorities. I will make the necessary inquiries in case there are any differences in respect of the children of asylum seekers.

On Sunday night, I attended a church service in Colwyn Bay held by Amnesty International, which detailed some horrific human rights abuses. Will you join me in condemning those who attempt to stir up this issue against people who are fleeing persecution?

We clearly want to condemn anybody who makes remarks that incite racial hatred against asylum seekers. We recognise that asylum seekers are fleeing poverty, war and other crises. It is important that our principled position on this continues. Members have expressed interest in receiving updates and have welcomed the fact that I am responding to queries today and continuing to update them on issues arising.

I am delighted to be here for the second time to speak to you about the United Kingdom Government’s legislative programme. In doing so, I am fulfilling an obligation under Section 31 of the Government of Wales Act 1998, but it is also a pleasant duty to be with you this afternoon.

In many ways, the legislative process is a more meaningful event this year than it was last year. Last year, devolution was still very new. The Government programme had largely been determined before the Assembly came into existence. In last year’s debate, Assembly Members expressed frustration about their lack of input into that process. However, the devolution settlement has delivered Assembly input into this year’s legislative programme.

The Assembly has discussed and agreed policy lines in Committee and Plenary. The Assembly Cabinet has passed those on to me and to my Whitehall colleagues. We have considered and discussed these views with the Assembly Cabinet, and the Bills in this year’s programme are framed in the light of that input. As we just heard, the Children’s Commissioner for Wales Bill is a prime example of that input, but as other Bills are published in the weeks ahead, you will see how the Assembly’s views and positions were accommodated.

It is also important to remember that even if clauses do not make separate provision for Wales, the Assembly will often have powers under the Bill that will give it the flexibility to implement appropriately for Wales. This year, there are no large Welsh sections, as there were in other Bills last year. However, four Bills give significant secondary legislative powers to the Assembly: the Health and Social Care Modernisation Bill, the Special Educational Needs and Disability Bill, the Homes Bill and the proposed Commonhold and Leasehold Reform Bill. The Queen’s Speech included 15 Bills and four draft ones. That is the full programme. At the top of that agenda is legislation to tackle two of the public’s concerns: crime and health. Tackling crime is a symbol of responsibility, and health a symbol of security.

Wales has its own Bill—the Children’s Commissioner Bill, which is a symbol of responsibility and security: society’s responsibility to listen to children and take account of their interests, and children’s need for a secure place in society. This was the fourth Queen’s Speech of the Parliament and the start of the fourth phase of the Government’s policies. Phase one was about the economy. We set a tough inflation target and put public finances back in order, which has paid off. We now have the lowest rate of inflation in 30 years, cheaper mortgages, and public finances are in good shape, with steady growth. Phase two tackled work. We put in place policies to give opportunities to the young and the long-term unemployed to find work. We tackled the problems of single mothers stuck on benefits and problems faced by disabled people in finding work. Thanks, in part, to the New Deal, over 25,000 people have found jobs. Long-term youth unemployment in Wales has been reduced by 81 per cent since May 1997, and benefit bills, which were the cost of failure, have been reduced.

Phase three concentrated on schools, education and training. That meant putting a proper infrastructure in place and aiming to give all children and young people opportunities through education. The Learning and Skills Act 2000 established the National Council for Education and Training for Wales, which will bring together the various strands of funding for post-16 training and education in Wales. The Act gives the Assembly considerable flexibility to decide on the structure of the council, allowing the circumstances in Wales to be taken fully into account. The idea of establishing such a council came from the education and training action plan that started life under Welsh Office Ministers and was developed by this Assembly. That was indeed a Welsh solution for a Welsh issue. Therefore, phases one to three put in place the opportunity economy: low inflation, cheaper mortgages, more jobs and better education and training.

The fourth phase kicked off by this Queen’s Speech is about crime and health. That means matching the opportunity economy with a responsibility society. There are five Bills that show how all parts of government, local communities, this Assembly and the police are fighting crime together. The Bills will tackle yob culture, drug traffickers, car crime, the private security industry and benefit fraud. The focus is on responsibility and security; importantly, the security of our young people.

Older people are rightly concerned about walking the streets in some Welsh towns, but most victims of street violence are young men. The majority of law-abiding young people have the right to go out with their friends in the evening without the fear of violence. The Criminal Justice and Police Bill will help to achieve one of the Government’s main objectives, namely to reduce crime and the fear of crime. It contains extra powers for the police to tackle disorder in public places, for example closing licensed premises where disorder occurs.

The Bill is good news for Wales. Crime in Wales fell by 2.5 per cent last year against a 3.8 per cent rise in England and Wales as a whole. However, we cannot be complacent as over a third of notifiable offences in Wales last year involved violent or criminal damage. Police in Wales say that most of the violent offences with which they deal are public order situations. The Bill will give the police specific powers to tackle public disorder.

Another important Bill is the Vehicle (Crime) Bill. Vehicle crime accounts for about 30 per cent of recorded crime in Wales. The Bill will extend compulsory vehicle registration and regulate the motor salvage industry. That will help to tackle fraud in the motor industry by making it harder for identities of legitimate written-off vehicles to be given to stolen cars, for example.

The Social Security Fraud Bill tackles the criminals who defraud the benefit system. It will provide powers to reduce or withdraw benefits from people who have been convicted twice of benefit fraud and increase punishments and tighten requirements to report changed circumstances that affect benefits. The Private Security Industry Bill will regulate the private security industry to ensure that bouncers and door staff are not involved in crime.

Another major part of the Queen’s Speech was on the Government’s 10-year plan for the NHS. While the Assembly is responsible for the health service in Wales, the primary legislation proposed for this area is also significant. The Assembly Cabinet has been consulted on the content. There are two Bills: the Health and Social Care Modernisation Bill and the Tobacco Advertising and Promotion Bill.

The first Bill will help to bring the NHS in England and Wales into the twenty-first century. There are three strands to modernising the service. First, encouraging better performance by providing a modern national health service and rewarding good performance in tackling persistent failures. Secondly, setting the framework for providing better and more efficient services and delivering seamless care to patients. Thirdly, strengthening the power of patients and providing for more democracy in the health service. The Bill also modernises social care by improving health and social care for older people and making nursing care the responsibility of the NHS and, therefore, free.

The Tobacco Advertising and Promotion Bill will implement the Government’s manifesto commitment to ban tobacco advertising. Research shows that where advertising is banned, there has been a fall in tobacco consumption. Smoking related illnesses such as cancer and heart disease could account for up to 20 per cent of deaths in Wales. Those of us who represent Valley communities know that better than most. This Bill could have a positive impact on reducing deaths.

I turn, Presiding Officer, to an important Bill for Wales, which you have just debated here, the Children’s Commissioner for Wales Bill. It is a symbol of responsibility and security, society’s responsibility to listen to children and take account of their interests and children’s need for a secure place within the wider community. I am pleased that as a result of my co-operation with David Hanson, Under Secretary of State for Wales and the Assembly Cabinet officials in Cardiff, we have delivered the first Wales-only Bill since the implementation of devolution. This shows that devolution is working to deliver the primary legislation that Wales needs and enables you to implement made-for-Wales policies. It also shows that the United Kingdom Government is prepared to embrace the concept of devolution using different ways of tackling today’s big issues in the United Kingdom.

The Bill is published today and is on the internet. It gives wide-ranging powers to the Children’s Commissioner, which are beyond the powers set out in the Care Standards Act. In particular, the aim of the commissioner will be to exercise all functions to safeguard and promote rights of the welfare of children. He will have new powers to review the effect on children of a wide range of public body actions and policies, including those of the Assembly and to review and monitor arrangements for complaints procedures, whistle-blowing and advocacy that will apply to a wider range of public bodies. Many of the commissioner’s powers under the Care Standards Act will apply to a wider range of public bodies whose functions may now affect children in Wales. He will retain his role of ensuring that children in care settings are protected by his power to review and monitor the complaints procedures.

The new role will go much further in the interest of children throughout Wales. The Commissioner will not only focus on protection from abuse, although that is important, but he will also look at the big picture and evaluate how the actions of a wide range of bodies impact on children in Wales. It is a first for the United Kingdom. Wales now joins a number of European countries that have similar posts. The Assembly and the 40 of us who represent Wales in the House of Commons should be proud of this significant Bill, not just for its intrinsic value, but for what it does for the relationship between you as an Assembly and us as a Parliament that jointly represent the people of Wales.

I would like to mention other Bills as they are all important in their own right and they affect the Assembly. The Special Educational Needs and Disability Bill was introduced to the Lords on 7 December. It will promote educational choice and improve the educational experience of disabled learners and those with special educational needs. The Cabinet here has been fully consulted as this Bill has been developed and will continue to be involved during its passage through the House of Lords and the House of Commons. I was particularly pleased to see that the Bill has been welcomed by the Minister for Education and Lifelong Learning as an important piece of legislation that will strengthen and reinforce some of this Assembly’s key objectives.

There are two elements to the Homes Bill, the reform of home buying and tackling homelessness. It will reduce the chances of gazumping and require the provision of sellers’ packs. There will be measures to enable local authorities in Wales to deal more effectively with homelessness. While cases of homelessness have fallen in Wales since 1997, it remains a matter of great concern to us in the United Kingdom Government and to you in the Assembly. The measures over which you will have control could therefore be of great benefit and help to over 3,500 homeless people in Wales.

The proposed Commonhold and Leasehold Reform Bill was published in draft earlier this year, so you have had an opportunity to comment on it. Commonhold reform will give flat owners the same security as freehold ownership. While leasehold reform provisions, which have been of huge significance in the past in Wales, will give greater protection against unscrupulous landlords, commonhold is dealt with on an England and Wales basis, but you will have regulation making powers under the leasehold reform measures.

Other Bills include the Hunting Bill, which will allow a free vote on the future of hunting with dogs, which fulfils my party’s manifesto commitment. The Bill contains three self-contained options, which have been put forward by the main hunting interest groups and will take place shortly.

The Regulatory Reform Bill will introduce wider powers to reform burdensome legislation. Regulatory reform orders would simplify and improve regulations that would benefit businesses, the public, charities, voluntary sectors, local authorities and the wider public sector. Regulatory reform functions have not been transferred to the Assembly but we recognise that such Orders will be important to bodies acting in areas for which the Assembly is responsible. To meet that point, the Bill will require the United Kingdom’s Secretary of State—not me—to obtain the Assembly’s consent on any regulatory reform Order, which amends or removes those of the Assembly. He will also be required to consult if the provisions of any Order extend to Wales.

Presiding Officer and colleagues, the Queen’s Speech is an important and exciting programme. It recognises the role and the huge responsibilities that fall upon your shoulders as Assembly Members. It deals with issues of vital importance to the people of Wales who elected me and my 39 colleagues to the House of Commons and you to the National Assembly in Cardiff to represent their interests. The programme makes the partnership clear in that, while tackling crime is a matter for the United Kingdom Government, it affects the Assembly’s responsibility in health, education and economic, environmental and social regeneration. As you exercise the responsibility that the legislation will give you on health, education and housing, it will help the police in the task of making our streets safer for the young and old. I wish the Assembly well in its deliberations on behalf of the Welsh people and I wish you well for Christmas and the New Year.

I welcome the Secretary of State for Wales to the National Assembly. As he indicated, this is the second occasion on which he has come to outline the provisions of the Queen’s Speech, the UK Government’s legislative programme, to us. I gently remind him that this was, probably, the most electioneering Queen’s Speech that we have heard during the last four years. Does he agree that he has highlighted the Labour Party’s programme for that general election, bearing in mind that it is highly unlikely that all these Bills will reach the statute book before the May election?

There are two Bills that my party unreservedly welcome. However, does he recognise that many people from all parties, and independent people, have campaigned for many years not only for a children’s commissioner in Wales, but for substantial powers for that commissioner? Will he pay tribute to those who have campaigned over the years? It will be a great day for Wales when that Bill reaches the statute book. Will he also accept that another measure is welcomed in Wales, that is, the Tobacco Advertising and Promotion Bill? The Government ought to have done that years ago and we will support it all the way to the statute book, which it will reach, hopefully, before the general election.

Will he tell us how the Queen’s Speech will tackle people’s growing concern about poverty levels in Wales? Has he read the Joseph Rowntree Foundation report? It states that about 500,000 people in the United Kingdom and 25,000 in Wales are living below the poverty line, an increase of 25,000 on the overall total since New Labour came into power. How will the Queen’s Speech address that major issue? What will it do to address the inequalities in terms of income and health in Wales? There are greater inequalities now than when New Labour came to power.

What commitment is in the Queen’s Speech to improve public services in Wales, bearing in mind that the Labour Party goes into the next general election with the proportion of spending on public services at the same level as it was during John Major’s last year in power?

In reality, are the Bills that the Government has announced for tackling crime anything more than window dressing? Is it not true that the way to tackle crime and to instil confidence in people that the Government is tackling crime is to put more police officers on the beat? Are there measures in the Queen’s Speech to tackle that fundamental issue?

We want more police officers on the beat, not good headlines in the Daily Mail. Will he confirm that the Queen’s Speech is not really about the problems facing the people of Wales, but about Labour preparing for a general election?

You put some of those points to me yesterday in the Welsh Grand Committee. I have not yet read the Rowntree report, but I have seen the newspaper reports. I welcome unreservedly everyone who has been supportive of the Bills that you mentioned initially in your statement, namely the Children’s Commissioner for Wales Bill and the Tobacco Advertising and Promotion Bill. I accept, of course, that many things need to be done in terms of alleviating poverty in Wales. I believe, however, that the Government has made an enormous effort since its election in 1997 to do precisely that. Indeed, the Queen’s Speech contains an opportunity to do that. It is not mentioned in the list, because it is always included in the Finance Bill, which comes as a result of the financial measures introduced by the Chancellor of the Exchequer.

On many occasions during the last few months—and I hope it will happen in the months ahead as well—the Chancellor has introduced many measures that will improve the quality of life of the people of Wales. This relates to pensioners, with the recent increases in the pension and the various measures that we announced in the pre-Budget report. It relates to the Government’s actions in dealing with child poverty. It also relates to the comprehensive spending review. Whatever comparisons we make, there is no doubt, when we consider the increases in public funding allocated to this Assembly by the Government during the course of that spending review, that there has been an enormous increase. Nearly £10,000 billion is being paid by the Government through a block grant system to the Assembly. There are increases in health and in education, as well as in other areas that you in the Assembly decide and deliberate upon in terms of priorities.

As far as the Daily Mail is concerned, I doubt that we will ever get good headlines in that newspaper. However, I agree with you on police officers, and the Government has increased the number of police officers in Wales. However, I do not agree with your comment about window dressing. Any of us who represent—as I do—towns and urban villages in the south Wales valleys or cities or even some country areas, where violent crime has been a source of enormous concern, will agree that we must take measures to deal with that. Violent crime is often associated with the abuse of alcohol outside public houses and elsewhere. We must tackle it. I believe that the people of Wales will welcome that Bill and certainly, the Vehicle (Crime) Bill to ensure that the proceeds of their misdeeds are brought back into the public arena.

There is nothing at all that could be described as ‘window dressing’ about the importance of modernising the health service, which I know that you as an Assembly, as much as we as an United Kingdom Government, are intent upon doing. I know that Jane has been exercising her talents and energies over the last few months.

I welcome the Secretary of State for Wales. It is a pleasure to see him. Many of us feel that it would be appropriate if he visited more regularly than once a year. Under Section 76 of the Government of Wales Act 1998, he has every right to be here. One of the dangers of the devolution process is that the Westminster-Cardiff nexus does not always work as well as it could. That would benefit from more regular visits by the Secretary of State. I am sure that that would be widely welcomed across the Chamber.

I will ask some questions regarding the background to the Queen’s Speech, before progressing to some of the specific legislative areas. Much was made about the growth that has been achieved. However, will he not confirm that there has been an increase in taxation under this Government, since it came to power three and a half years ago, which is the equivalent of nearly 10p on the basic rate of income tax? Against that background, it would be surprising if some of that did not filter through into increased spending on public services. Is not the real question about how we ensure that the money is well spent rather than simply continuing to ratchet up taxation, whether direct or indirect?

Could he also, as it was mentioned in the Queen’s Speech, comment on the commitment to the North Atlantic Treaty Organisation? Many of us and many people throughout Wales are concerned about the Government’s commitment to NATO and about the danger of the rapid reaction force undermining that commitment.

On the specific issues of legislation contained in the Queen’s Speech, there is little that will affect some of the fundamental problems in Wales. There is little to tackle the growing crisis in waiting lists, as they are defined by the administration. It wants to tackle waiting lists, while we are more concerned about waiting times. Waiting lists have increased compared to last year.

There is little to tackle the problem that we saw in the budget last week about getting money to schools. We heard comments earlier about brown paper envelopes not reaching headteachers. Many headteachers found that offensive. Would you like to comment on the process in England, where the money goes directly to schools, so that we can be certain that the money is being usefully employed?

We welcome certain aspects of the criminal law programme. However, will you confirm that some of the measures for dealing with anti-social behaviour have not been used? There has not been a single child curfew order since it was brought in. There have been few anti-social behaviour orders. Therefore, is this is not all election window dressing?

Furthermore, it contains the commitment once again to reintroduce the abolition of jury trial, which the Assembly voted against last year on a free vote. Apart from about three Members, all parties voted against this measure. Therefore, it is disappointing to see jury trial being eroded in the Queen’s Speech.

I refer to two items that could have been taken directly from the Conservative Party pre-manifesto document, ‘Believing in Britain’. Perhaps they were taken directly from that. The commitment to combat social security fraud is currently costing the Exchequer £7 billion a year based on Government figures. Would he confirm that that kind of expenditure could make a massive difference to life in Wales, for example, in tackling our health and education problems? Is this not the Government’s forty-third announcement that it will tackle social security fraud? Is it not contained in a Bill because we have an election around the corner?

We welcome measures to deregulate. Indeed, we have started an initiative in the Assembly and in the UK about the amount of regulation that the Labour Government has brought in at Westminster. Would he confirm that this is costing the economy £5 billion a year? The commitment to reducing regulation would be more convincing if the Government had not introduced a record number of regulations last year, namely 3,473. It must be seen against that background.

I know that Lorraine Barrett would not call me a co-operative Conservative—at least I hope that she would not. However, I welcome this opportunity to reassure her that the Welsh Conservative Party is fully committed to the Children’s Commissioner for Wales Bill—not the Hunting Bill, John. We are coming to that. Be attentive. It is not simply David Melding’s policy, but the policy of the entire group. It is also, as far as I can gather, the policy of the party in Westminster. Philip Hammond MP committed himself to supporting David Melding’s policy, indeed, our policy, in the Committee stage of the Care Standards Bill when that went through Parliament. He mentioned David Melding by name. I am grateful for the opportunity to once more pin our colours firmly to the mast on that issue.

The Hunting Bill, which John Griffiths and others mentioned, is irrelevant to the needs of rural Wales. Whether or not you are in favour of this Bill, the most outstanding feature of the Queen’s Speech is that the only issue that directly concerns rural areas is an assault on hunting. In any system of priorities something should be done to meet the needs of rural Britain and rural Wales. This Bill is irrelevant regardless of whether one wants it or not. It is an insult to people who are living through a crisis in rural Wales and rural Britain.

In short, this is an election Queen’s Speech. It is thin. We welcome the Children’s Commissioner for Wales Bill. However, concerning much else of what is contained in the speech, if it has not been taken from ‘Believing in Britain’—most of your successful policies have been taken from us. [Laughter.]

Such as devolution.

I can see support for this across the Chamber. We welcome the measures that have real content, but the great bulk of this, I fear, is an election Queen’s Speech and much of it is destined to fail when the election is called.

I hope that much of it, whenever that election is called, will not fail, because from what you and others have said, Nick, there are several Bills with which you agree. As you know, if an election is called in the middle of a Parliamentary session, the various political parties in the House of Commons get together and work out how they can fast-track to complete the significant Bills. From the point of view of Wales, the Children’s Commissioner for Wales Bill and other Bills are important.

In terms of coming here to spend time in debates and answer Members’ questions, I am more than happy to do that whenever the Assembly requests it. I am conscious that we are at the beginning of the devolution process. It is for those of you who are elected to this body, rather than for myself, who is appointed, to undertake those tasks. As it so happens, I am here nearly every Monday and if you want to have a chat, I would be more than happy to do that. However, I make it clear, Presiding Officer, that there is no indication whatsoever from my office or from me of reluctance to come to this Chamber and address the Assembly at any time on issues which are of mutual importance.

Nick mentioned an increase in taxation. He also mentioned that it is important that money received by public bodies is well spent. First, much of the finance that has gone into improving public services has come because we are paying much less interest off the national debt and also because we are paying much less in benefits because people have gone back to work. When you combine that, money that has been dissipated in the wrong way is now rightly being spent on improving public services. That is what is important. That is why, here in the Assembly as in the rest of the United Kingdom, we have had the biggest ever increases in public spending for many years.

I agree that money on its own is not the answer. It has to be spent wisely and in such a way that it goes to those most in need. How to do that is a matter for you in your Assembly. For example, you touch upon waiting times and lists, upon moneys going directly to schools, and so on, issues which are entirely matters for the Assembly to deal with. I accept that, because people watch the UK national news on television and see this and that happening by way of announcements by my colleagues, such as the Secretary of State for Health and the Secretary of State for Education and Employment, it can be a little confusing. I understand that. It is up to us, and the media, to ensure that it is made clear what the responsibilities of the, as it were, English Secretaries of State are and what the responsibilities of the Assembly are.

Nick also mentioned NATO and the undoubted commitment there. I am a former shadow defence spokesman. I assure you that there is no question whatsoever that the United Kingdom Government is committed to our membership of NATO as the main body to ensure peace for the world. However, I see no difficulty in the European Union countries getting together as well, complementing the role of NATO to ensure that we can help peacekeeping throughout the world.

Nick also talked about regulations and about trial by jury. On regulations, I think that the Regulatory Reform Bill—or Act as it will become—will be significant in reducing regulations and the red tape. The Assembly will play its part in that. The Criminal Justice (Mode of Trial) (No. 2) Bill is being reintroduced from the last session. Nick rightly welcomed the Children’s Commissioner for Wales Bill and he touched upon the Hunting Bill. As he knows, and as Rhodri mentioned earlier, there will be a free vote on the Hunting Bill. It will be for us, individually, to decide how we vote on that issue and on the different options before us, when we get to the House of Commons. Above all, we said to the British people that we would do this. We are committed by way of our manifesto to give that free vote to the Members of the House of Commons and the House of Lords. That is what we shall do.

I also make it clear that I will speak in my capacity as leader of the Welsh Liberal Democrats. There are some people here, Secretary of State, who do not understand that you are from a different Government and a different place and a different party. However, it is obvious to me, as it is obvious to my colleagues in my own party. I am speaking to you as a Liberal Democrat Member. One of the Assembly’s strengths has been the fact that, during the past year, we have been able to work together as Assembly Members on a common agenda and now on a common programme for this Government which will bring benefits to the National Assembly. That is the new politics at work, therefore it does not surprise me that others in the Chamber find that difficult.

That is also why we as Liberal Democrats welcome the step forward that is being made here in the Queen’s Speech, which represents for us, perhaps, the influence over key areas of legislation that affect Wales. That is why I particularly welcome the Children’s Commissioner for Wales Bill and that you saw fit to give statutory powers across the board. Your personal commitment to the issue is largely responsible for this success and that should be put on record in the Assembly. I agree with Nick, though, that it would be helpful for us to have, as an Assembly as a whole, an opportunity to have discussions with you in a broader context. Most of the discussions that have taken place have been with Assembly Cabinet members. It may well be that we need to extend a broader invitation to you so that we obtain a better understanding of the role that Westminster can play in relation to us. I also welcome the fact that you are able, by answering questions here this year, to differentiate from the practice last year. That is a step forward. However, as you might expect, there are issues in the Queen’s Speech with which we do not agree.

On the crime measures that you produced, we draw the line at aggressive, headline-grabbing types of issues. They are probably designed, as I think that Ieuan said, more to grab headlines in the Daily Mail, where you have had difficulty in getting headlines, than to tackle the effects of crime. We are also disappointed that this Queen’s Speech did not grasp the opportunity to include many of the matters. For a Government with a huge majority to duck the key issues, is indefensible. I will outline some of those key issues.

On crime, we see that your Government is embarking upon a course of pre-election stand-offs between yourselves and the Conservatives about who can erode the civil liberties of this country more in fighting crime. Some of the stand-offs that we have seen between the two parties in Westminster give us that view. Do you recognise that a slimline populist programme, much of which does not have much opportunity to become law before the next general election, is playing only to the most illiberal instincts of middle England and offers little for people in Wales?

Will you take on board the deep concerns shared by all parties here—on a free vote in the Assembly—as well as the judiciary, the House of Lords, and even the House of Commons, that your Government’s continued assistance to reduce the right to trial by jury is not only illiberal, but affects the basic human rights of people in this country? It has been thrown out twice in Parliament; to have a third attempt beggars belief. Will you explain why, having such a limited legislative programme, you have put forward this measure yet again? Why have you not taken the hint from the National Assembly, all parties of the judiciary, the House of Lords and the House of Commons? Although we recognise that no Government can legislate on everything that opposition parties wish it to, will you clarify how your Government intends to explain the absence of your promised legislation, which we expected to see, from the Queen’s Speech?

On tackling arms exports, especially with a cloud still hanging over your Government’s promise to bring ethics into foreign policy, we would have expected to see some mention of that in the Queen’s Speech. The regulation of houses in multiple occupation is of great relevance to the National Assembly, and especially to students in Wales, many of whom live in sub-standard accommodation with no legal protection against unscrupulous landlords. Finally, we expected you to take forward the recommendations of the Royal Commission report into long-term care to provide free care for residents in old people’s homes.

Those are the issues which we would have liked to see included. However, much has happened since 1997 that we welcome, not least devolution. This year, we recognise that Wales has done better in terms of specific Welsh-made legislation than ever before. We also recognise that we have a better hit rate in the number of Bills upon which the National Assembly has an influence than in the previous year. However, with your record Parliamentary majority, I cannot disguise the Liberal Democrats’ disappointment that your Government has not brought forward some of the key measures that you promised us. We, like you, have a devolution promise to make devolution work. There are some measures, particularly the ones that I mentioned, which are in interest of the National Assembly, which you have not brought forward and which you promised us in the past. I hope that you will explain why those have been left out.

Thank you for you comments and your kind words about the Children’s Commissioner for Wales Bill. I also welcome the stability that the partnership has given to the Assembly. That is a common feeling among Members of Parliament and Assembly Members.

I am more than happy to come to the Assembly and discuss various issues. However, I emphasise that the initiative, on balance and generally, should come from you, as an Assembly. It is not for me to turn up every couple of days in the middle of the week and listen in and start talking when I feel like it. That may be my right, but I am not sure that it is my responsibility. However, there are occasions when a dialogue between us, in this format, namely a statement and questions and answers, would be useful.

You referred to issues that were not in the Bill. I cannot agree with you in terms of the erosion of civil liberties. I accept your point that there is a genuine difference of view about the Criminal Justice (Mode of Trial) Bill. There are various safeguards in it, which I will not rehearse today because we will return to a debate on that. There is a difference of view on that.

Over the last few years, when the Government has brought in Bills on crime, law and order to make Wales and Britain a better and safer place in which to live, the people who have suffered most from crime are those whom we represent. It is not the wealthy who suffer most from crime, including violent crime and burglary, but the least well-off. We must be conscious of that in our towns, cities and villages in Wales.

On the extent of the programme, some people argue that it is too thin and others say that it is almost nothing. I disagree with both those points of view. It does not take a rocket scientist to work out that, when a Government is in its fourth year, the chances of a general election increase monthly. The timing of general elections since the war show that, inevitably, as you come to the fourth year, even though it is possible to run to a fifth term, there is a possibility of an election. Those of us who have some kind of responsibility for ensuring a legislative programme must consider that.

As a result of that, there are draft Bills in this year’s Queen’s Speech and Government’s programme. In the event of the legislative session lasting after the spring, when it is possible that an election will be held, Bills will be published on various issues to be included in the Government’s programme. We do not know when any Prime Minister will call a general election. Interestingly, those additional Bills include one to which you referred, namely the draft Export Control and Non-proliferation Bill. That Bill would strengthen controls on trafficking and brokering weapons, ban weapons of torture, and strengthen legislation on chemical, biological and nuclear weapons. Such Bills are on the shelf ready to take off if the legislative programme permits that to happen.

This year, or during the last session, we were criticised because the programme was too heavy and because we put too many Bills through. The number of Bills with which we dealt was a heavy burden on Parliament. You mentioned long-term care. Nursing care in the health service will be dealt with by the Health and Social Care Bill. Whatever your feelings about the number of Bills before us in Parliament, most of us agree that some of those Bills are vital to improve our people’s quality of life.

Yr wyf wedi fy siomi’n fawr nad oes cyfeiriad—

Rhowch amser i’r Ysgrifennydd wisgo’r clustffonau ar gyfer y cyfieithiad.

Ei fusnes ef yw gwisgo’r clustffonau mewn pryd.

Yr wyf bob amser yn barod i dderbyn eich barn, Lywydd.

Yr hyn sydd yn fy siomi yn fwy nag unrhyw beth ynglŷn ag Araith y Frenhines yw nad oes sôn am ailddosbarthu cyfoeth yn systematig ar draws y Deyrnas Gyfunol er mwyn codi perfformiad economaidd a dileu tlodi mewn rhanbarthau megis Cymru.

Efallai y bydd o ddiddordeb i Ysgrifennydd Gwladol Cymru i nifer ohonom wrando ar gyflwyniad meistrolgar yn y Cynulliad yr wythnos diwethaf gan David Lambert, sydd yn arbenigwr ar ddeddfwriaeth. Yr oedd yn hallt ei feirniadaeth o’r modd y mae deddfwriaeth gynradd yn San Steffan yn methu â darparu ar gyfer anghenion Cymru. Mae’r ddeddfwriaeth honno yn ddifrifol o anghyson, yn fympwyol ac yn anodd ei deall. Mae’n methu â throsglwyddo pwerau yn gynhwysfawr ac yn crafangu pwerau yn ôl. Gwelsom hynny oll yn digwydd yn ystod y flwyddyn ddiwethaf. Gobeithiaf y bydd y sefyllfa yn wahanol y flwyddyn nesaf. Disgrifiodd yr arbenigwr y broses fel ‘near chaos’, a dywedodd fod y sefyllfa yn fethiant trasig i weithredu dataganoli.

A wnaiff Ysgrifennydd Gwladol Cymru ddisgrifio’r broses drafod a fu rhyngddo ef a Phrif Weinidog Cymru o ran gwneud argymhellion ar ddeddfwriaeth yn San Steffan? A allwn gael manylion am y cyfarfodydd, megis pryd y cynhaliwyd hwy, pwy oedd yn bresennol, pa ddogfennau a ddefnyddiwyd ac yn y blaen? Hefyd, pa argymhellion a gafodd eu gwneud a faint ohonynt a gynhwyswyd yn y rhaglen ddeddfwriaethol? Pa drefniadau sydd ar y gweill i symud o’r sefyllfa o ‘near chaos’ sydd wedi nodweddu’r flwyddyn diwethaf i drefn drwyadl o ddarparu ar gyfer anghenion Cymru mewn deddfwriaeth gynradd a rhoi’r grym mwyaf posibl i’r Cynulliad?

Yn olaf, pam nad yw’r concordat drafft rhwng Ysgrifennydd Gwladol Cymru a’r Cynulliad, neu rhwng yr Ysgrifennydd a’r Cabinet, y buom yn ei drafod ryw flwyddyn yn ôl, ac a allai fod o gymorth i roi trefn ar y cawdel hwn, byth wedi cael ei gytuno? Pryd y mae hynny’n debygol o ddigwydd? Beth yn y byd yw’r rheswm am y methiant i gytuno ar y broses ddeddfwriaethol drwy goncordat?

First of all, on the redistribution of wealth and economic matters, Cynog, as I said in answer to earlier questions, that is included in the Queen’s Speech, but in terms of what is covered by the Finance Bill. Most of those extra issues will be economic ones.

I will touch on your points about how primary legislation is dealt with. I could not agree less with the description of ‘near chaos’ and mess. I do not agree for one second with that. The reality is what has been delivered. If you consider the number of Bills that we have already been criticised for not including, there is not enough space for them. There are 13 Bills in the legislative programme. One of those is exclusive to Wales. Others have Welsh aspects to them. Last year we had at least four Bills, it may have been more, which had large numbers of Welsh clauses. The Learning and Skills Bill comes immediately to mind.

I accept that we should improve on that from year to year. It is inevitable that in the early years of devolution people have to get used to new systems. We would be foolish if we thought otherwise. This year, I have no doubt, given my connections and meetings with my Westminster colleagues and the fact that I meet Rhodri and his Cabinet colleagues regularly to discuss these issues, that the process is working. You will have to ask Rhodri and his colleagues about the detail of their meetings. However, I assure you that the process that has led to the Children’s Commissioner for Wales Bill—which has been hugely successful—and those other Bills is working. It of course takes negotiation and detailed discussions. That is true for any sort of legislation. However, the process is working well.

What about the future? You are right, Cynog, to point to the protocol that we need to establish to ensure how we deal with legislation. It is late, partly deliberately. It has been prepared. I have seen several drafts and have not been satisfied with them. I wanted to ensure that we got it right. The way that we have done that is by seeing how the process of the important Children’s Commissioner for Wales Bill was gone through. All our experience prior to that was of Bills with Welsh clauses, as opposed to Wales-only Bills. Having now seen the process by which a Wales-only Bill goes through, we are in a better position to ensure that the protocol is published and agreed between Rhodri and myself and then the Assembly. That will happen within a few weeks, I should think.

There are two distinct aspects to this. First, there is legislation initiated by my Government. As you, as a former Member of Parliament, know, the Queen’s Speech is not decided until almost the last moment. Inevitably, there are competing bids from government departments as to what should be included. All have worthwhile bids. We also have our worthwhile bids from a Welsh point of view. They face the same situation. As we go through a legislative session, we have to discuss and consult in the event of those bids for Bills being successful.

There is another aspect that is much more the Assembly’s direct responsibility. That is when you want to sponsor a Bill, like the Children’s Commissioner for Wales Bill, or, and perhaps more regularly, when you do not want a separate Bill but legislation that can be added on to other Bills. That would be because the matter does not require a separate Bill and can be done through the ordinary passage of legislation. In other words, we have to have Bills on the shelf ready to go. It is then the Assembly’s process to work out how best to deal with those Bills. During the next months, the Assembly will be in a position to say how best the procedure works in getting legislation through. However, it is early days. This year is much better than last, although I did not think that last year was that bad. That is proven by the fact that Wales has its own Bill and that parts of other Bills are relevant to us.

I thank the Secretary of State for Wales for coming to the Assembly today. Welsh Labour is proud to work with you and the Labour Government in Westminster to bring huge improvements to the living conditions of people in Wales. We look forward to continuing that working relationship for decades to come.

As this is meant to be a question and answer session, I will convert some of my comments into questions. Would you be surprised to know that, during a street surgery with Alun Michael in our constituency on Saturday, three families went out of their way to tell us what a good job they thought Labour was doing in Westminster and in the Assembly? That is perfectly true, and I could bring the families here to testify to that.

Three whole families? [Laughter.]

Would you also be surprised to know that I welcome the commitment to give Members of Parliament the opportunity to vote on the future of hunting with hounds in this country? Many people have felt let down on this issue since 1997. People expected something to happen almost straight away. However, we understand that there have been difficulties with the legislative programme up to now. While it may not be the first issue that people raise on the doorstep, do you agree that letters from people calling for a ban on this barbaric practice result in the largest postbags for elected Members? Nick Bourne said that the Bill is an insult to people. Do you agree that it will bring liberty and fair play to foxes and other hunted animals? I assure you that I do not wear the red jacket that I am wearing today in support of hunters; it is merely a statement of my socialist politics. That is why I welcome the Government’s legislative programme.

I am grateful for your suggestion that we may work together for decades. I agree with your comments on the public’s view. I have evidence from my constituency of how people feel about the Labour Government’s legislative programme. Our postbags are currently full, as people make representations on hunting. My postbag mostly contains representations against foxhunting.

You obviously did not want to discuss hunting in your last answer. However, I want you to answer a few questions on the subject. Have you read the Burns report, which was commissioned by your Government, which makes clear that a ban on hunting with dogs would be detrimental to this country’s fox population? Do you accept that the alternatives to hunting with dogs—gassing or snaring—would be far more cruel than the split second that it takes for a hound to kill a fox cleanly? Do you also accept that banning hunting with dogs will lead to job losses all over Wales? Do you accept that withholding compensation will cause further devastation in rural areas that are already hard-pressed? Do you also accept that hunting leads to a sustainable fox population and a sustainable environment? Furthermore, do you regret that Her Majesty’s Government has jumped on a populist bandwagon and is shamelessly trying to milk a few votes? This is not because it is worried about four-legged vermin in rural areas but because it is worried about its two-legged Members of Parliament in marginal Labour seats in cities and towns.

I remind David of two points that I made earlier. First of all, this was a manifesto commitment for which people voted overwhelmingly. People voted for a Labour Government and, as a part of that, they voted for the opportunity for Members of Parliament to have a free vote on whether there should be a ban on fox hunting and fox control. That is what will come before Members in the House of Commons. Although the Government does not have a view on this, individual Members of Parliament do. I will exercise my free vote, as will all other Members, to ensure that a decision is reached. We have been honest with the people of Wales and Britain by telling them that we would introduce that free vote. It is then a matter for those who either favour or oppose hunting to express their point of view, as they have done in this Assembly, and will undoubtedly do in the House of Commons.

There are things about the Queen’s Speech that I do not like—pantomime costumes, walking backwards, Ruritanian titles. You must be glad that you did not have to turn up in fancy dress this afternoon.

However, the substance of the Queen’s Speech is good. I particularly welcome the Bill that will give the Children’s Commissioner extra powers. It shows that it is possible to have a mature relationship between Parliament and the Assembly. Can you confirm that if, for example, there is an election in May, this Bill is likely to make it to the statute book?

Secondly, the focus on crime is welcome. Crime and disorder are some of the biggest problems in my postbag. There are major problems on the coastal strip in north Wales. You are right that most of it is alcohol fuelled, and it is a major problem in Colwyn Bay.

The Bill to ban tobacco advertising is excellent news. It is Wales’s number one public health issue. It kills 7,000 people in Wales every year and you are right to say that it has a disproportionate effect on deprived communities. That Bill is welcome, and I regret the EU ban to throw it out by the courts. We all know that tobacco companies target children. I hope that this Bill is a step in a process and not the end of the process. I would like to see the age at which tobacco products are bought and consumed raised to a rigidly enforced 18, and a ban on smoking in public places such as restaurants in line with best practice in other parts of Europe, the United States of America and Australia. Will there be more legislation to reduce the death toll from smoking in future years?

Finally, I come to the national health service. The NHS is the crowning achievement of the post-war Labour Government. Legislation to modernise it is helpful, but better still is the huge rise in resources to allow us in this Assembly to tackle the serious issues of health and health inequalities in Wales.

I tried to find a white shirt this morning, Alun, but the purple one had to do. I take your point about a mature relationship between two Parliaments, which is important. I cannot guarantee anything in terms of the passage of legislation through Parliament, but if I were to be a betting man on any of those Bills, I would have thought that the one likely to get through would be the Children’s Commissioner for Wales Bill. There is all-party support for it. The Assembly has spoken as one in its favour. It results from the recommendations of the Waterhouse report. There is undoubtedly a strong feeling in Wales that we should have this. I hope that even in the event of a shortened parliamentary session, to which I referred earlier when I was answering Nick about what happens to Bills if the session is shortened, that this would be a Bill that would receive all-party support.

I take your point about the north Wales coastal strip and Colwyn Bay and elsewhere where violent crime, particularly that linked to alcohol, needs to be tackled. It is important to refer to the resources that are going to the health service. I agree with your points on tobacco. Both my parents died of lung cancer, so I am aware of the results of smoking. I suspect that every family knows of people who have suffered because of this. The Assembly is fully behind us on that.

In the Queen’s Speech, the Westminster Government promised to bring forward legislation to improve protection for homeless people. How will that legislation affect the legislation that the Government in Wales has promised to bring forward, before Christmas, I believe, on homelessness? Will the Westminster legislation reflect the legislation to be brought forward in Wales?

Also, the Queen’s Speech states that the Westminster Government is committed to the development of devolution in Wales and Scotland. How will you progress that? What measures will you put in place to ensure progress on that next year? The Queen’s Speech goes on to note that the Government in Westminster is committed to increasing the decentralisation of Government throughout the UK. I was born and brought up in north-east England, therefore I would like to know what you intend to do to progress that matter in England?

I am not familiar with the precise proposals of the Assembly’s policy on homeless people. The Bill will contain a permissive clause, so that how to deal with the issues becomes a matter for the Assembly. I will be in close touch with the appropriate Ministers in Whitehall and the Assembly to follow progress. However, generally speaking, it is permissive, never mandatory, and the Assembly, in this particular case, will have an opportunity to use the contents of the Bill—I will have to check whether it has been published yet—to complement the measures that it wishes to present to tackle homelessness, which continues to be a problem in some parts of Wales.

On the point about devolution, today’s debate is a good example of our progress in dealing with the devolution settlement year on year. As I said earlier, there has been a distinct improvement in how we prepare legislation. The situation has developed since I was here last year, in that I am today answering your questions on the legislative programme. I know that Rhodri, and all Members, are considering ways to improve the progress of devolution.

To answer the question about decentralisation, I have always firmly believed that decentralisation should occur in England. The north-east of England is a region that has been pressing for decentralisation for some time. However, you must also be conscious of what people in England want, and a balance must be struck between those two aspects.

It is somewhat of a backhanded compliment to say that this Queen’s Speech was prepared in anticipation of an election. We are, after all, part of a democratic process where an election involves listening to the views of people and reacting accordingly. That is an important principle that should underpin all of our political activity, particularly within Welsh Labour.

I do not know what your reaction was to Plaid Cymru’s comments following the Queen’s Speech. I saw an interview with Elfyn Llwyd on television. His reaction to law and order, as you rightly said, was astounding, and it could almost be suggested that he had completely lost the plot. I speak with experience, as a village in my constituency in the upper Afan valley featured in a recent television programme dealing with the ravages that crime creates in many communities. Anybody who underestimates the importance of tackling crime, law and order or car theft is not dealing with the real world or with the problems of constituencies that Welsh Labour is committed to represent.

Ieuan Wyn Jones’s comments on the state of the economy were extraordinary, particularly when the level of unemployment is approximately 1 million and will probably fall below that figure in the next few months, which will be a decrease of almost two-thirds since the last Conservative Government. In my constituency, youth unemployment has also decreased by three-quarters. Taking a holistic attitude towards dealing with crime and having a policy that enables young people to get back into work are fundamental in tackling crime and its causes, to which the Welsh Labour Party is committed. Ieuan Wyn Jones also said that public expenditure is at the same level as it was during John Major’s Government. To make such a bold statement without qualifying it by saying how that money is being spent is extraordinary. Spending money on paying off the public debt and maintaining unemployment rather than promoting public services, such as health and education, would make a vast difference to ordinary people. The people that we represent would notice that difference and would also find Ieuan’s statement to be extraordinary.

We must compliment the Secretary of State on securing a Children’s Commissioner for Wales Bill. I declare an interest here as my wife works in children’s services. I have worked for 20 years as a general practitioner and, knowing of my wife’s experience of the problems and difficulties faced by many children in Wales, I have learnt that GPs only see the tip of the iceberg. It is vital, therefore, that children’s services are underpinned with further legislation.

I appeal to you on the issue of democratisation and public accountability in the NHS. England has sought a particular solution to articulating public need in that way. I hope that you will take the message back to Westminster that Wales may be looking for a different way to devise made-in-Wales policies to represent the public and its voice within the NHS.

I agree that those of us who represent the south Wales Valleys know that we must be careful about how we deal with crime. I have been to a couple of pubs in the last few months that I would like to have closed down on the spot because of rowdyness and yobbishness and that sort of culture, which does none of us any good. I hope that people are aware that we are doing this to ensure that the lives of the overwhelming majority of people who are law-abiding citizens are not adversely affected.

I also agree with you on the question of youth unemployment. The drop in youth unemployment over the last few years is an important issue for all who represent Wales, be that in rural or urban areas.

I note your point about the public accountability of NHS bodies and I will talk to Jane Hutt and Alan Milburn about that.

I am pleased that you are here in our National Assembly. I approve of your engagement with this Assembly. You have a key role to ensure that Acts of Parliament are passed in a way that maximises the involvement of the Assembly in their implementation. The First Minister seemed ambivalent about this in his response to me today. We depend on you greatly on that point.

I preface my questions on the Hunting Bill by saying that I have never participated in hunting and I do not intend to. However, I am implacably opposed to the imposition of a ban. The inclusion of the Bill in the Queen’s Speech was a cynical ploy by the Government to create division—we have seen some of that in the Assembly today—between town and country in an attempt to activate old Labour voters who are so disillusioned with your Government’s first term that they might not want to vote at all. The Government has put electoral considerations before the interest of Wales. Do you condemn this contemptuous and cynical way in which the Queen’s Speech has been formed to create division? Do you accept that hunting is more important to Wales than other parts of the United Kingdom because of the density of the sheep population in Wales and because there are forests alongside where the sheep are kept? Will you seek to ensure that the Act, should it be passed at Westminster, requires the agreement of this Assembly before it is implemented in Wales?

The answer to the last question is ‘no’. The vote in the next few days on the hunting issue will be a free vote because my party has made that commitment to Members of Parliament. I said earlier that the Government does not have a view on this. It is a free vote, and for Members of Parliament to vote according to their conscience. However, I accept that as a consequence of whatever option is decided upon by the House of Commons, there may be implementation methods and detail that would be appropriate for the National Assembly to consider. I do not know what that detail will be; we shall have to wait and see.

I do not accept that this is a question of electoral advantage. First, people knew that we were committed to this issue when they voted for Labour in 1997. In Wales we cannot have that complete, clear distinction between town and country. There is hardly a Member of Parliament, or an Assembly Member, except perhaps for some city Members from Cardiff, who does not represent, in some part or other, a rural area in their constituency. I represent many farmers. There are many Labour MPs in Welsh constituencies who represent rural areas. In fact, in the United Kingdom there are more Labour MPs representing rural areas than all the other parties put together. That must be accepted. It is not a simple one-party situation as regards who represents the countryside.

Secondly, I talk to MPs and AMs who represent country areas, as well as urban ones, and they also get postbags from people representing the countryside, as well as from people who live in the towns, who are opposed to foxhunting. It is not as clear-cut as that. Of course, I accept that there may be different points of view put forward in a wholly rural constituency. That is why the debate is being held. That is one reason why it has taken years to get to the stage in the Parliamentary process where we must have that debate, and why we had the Burns report. It is now a matter for MPs to decide and to see that the process goes through; then it will be up to the Assembly to implement anything that might fall to it.

We all share your concern about crime and disorder. Could you explain to us why the Government at Westminster thinks that putting young people under curfew will be useful, given that the current powers to curfew children have, mercifully, not been used at all? Do you share my concern that the most likely effect of a curfew in any particular community will be to further alienate children and young people from adult society and, therefore, potentially create further crime and disorder?

In relation to the Children’s Commissioner for Wales Bill, I echo what has been said and warmly welcome the fact that it is in the speech. I ask you to also look at two additional specific areas: first, powers relating to non-devolved matters like policing and benefits, and other powers with regard to children receiving services across the border, for example in the case of out-of-county care placements, or where there is need for specialist medical treatment. There are precedents, such as the Welsh Language Act 1993, that could be considered in this context. Powers in both these areas were recommended by the Health and Social Services Committee and I believe that the Government of Wales accepted that. I have not been able to find reference to them in my initial reading of the draft Bill, and I would be grateful if you could look at these areas.

We must agree to differ in terms of how the Criminal Justice and Police Bill would affect people. I am sure that we both agree that we want to see an end to the increasing violence that we all see in our communities, in urban areas in particular.

As far as the Children’s Commissioner for Wales Bill is concerned, it is modelled, as you know, on other ombudsmen. That was the legislative model that we followed. The Care Standards Act 2000 set up the post, and children who are looked after are dealt with in that Act. All matters that are devolved to this Assembly, including the spin-offs from the Assembly’s responsibilities—whether that be hospitals, education authorities, and so on—and all Assembly bodies that are in the purview of the Assembly will be a matter for the Children’s Commissioner. Reserved matters will not be, because the Assembly is not responsible for them. However, there may be areas of joint responsibility. That must be examined during the passage of legislation. To be honest, I gave a cursory look at that technical Bill today, and I could not necessarily give you any useful information until it has been looked at in more detail. There may be areas of joint responsibility between the Assembly and with non-Assembly bodies, which may need to be examined.

However, we should focus not only on the technical responsibilities of the Children’s Commissioner but on the fact that we now have a champion for children in Wales. The symbolism of that is hugely important. The Assembly can rightly be proud of it.

It is a great pleasure to have you here with us today, Paul. You are held in high regard by the people of Wales. I thank you for the excellent job that you are doing in representing Wales in the UK Government. Do you agree that the measures in the Queen’s Speech will be most welcome to the people of mid and west Wales, particularly the measures that deal with crime and housing? I recently had a meeting with the Chief Constable of Dyfed-Powys Police, who set out the measures his force is undertaking to tackle rural crime, thanks to new funding from the Government for this particular purpose. Therefore, these additional measures in the Queen’s Speech will be even more welcome in rural areas. The people of mid and west Wales will warmly welcome these, and other measures, as they have welcomed the massive drop in youth employment in mid and west Wales, the huge drop in long-term unemployment, the increase in family incomes through the working families tax credit and the record increases in child benefits. They have all been delivered by this Labour Government for the people of rural Wales.

Therefore, the leader of the Welsh Conservatives and other members of the Welsh Conservative Party are wrong to say that this Government is not delivering for the people of rural Wales. I welcome your comments that this Labour Party and Labour Government governs for the whole of Wales and all the people of this country. It is not splitting urban and rural areas, but is delivering policies for all our people. Finally, Secretary of State, will you join me in commiserating with the UK Conservative Party, which has so few policies that appeal to the voters that it has failed to win a single by-election during the entire course of this UK Parliament?

I would be admonished by the Presiding Officer if I commented on many of those issues. However, the important point to make is that the Government Bills that are before us—we will exclude the Hunting Bill for the time being, which is obviously a matter of controversy—such as those dealing with tobacco, homelessness, the health service and the Children’s Commissioner, are equally valid in whichever part of Wales you live, whether it is the most remote village in mid Wales or a densely populated ward here in the capital city.

Brian Gibbons said that this was an election Queen’s Speech. If this is all that Labour can come up with, I am looking forward to fighting the next general election on this Queen’s Speech and the record of the Government.

Secretary of State, in your speech you highlighted plans that you claim will improve the quality of life in Wales. You and other Members have mentioned that you want to introduce measures to improve law enforcement. Whatever the spin in your statement, do you accept that there are 3,000 fewer police officers in the United Kingdom now than before the last general election? You mentioned plans to improve the health service. However, is it not the reality, despite the billboard posters and the pledge card promises that you made before the last election, that waiting lists for treatment are up by 10,000, waiting times to see a consultant have risen by 78,000 and the number of people waiting longer than six months to see a consultant have risen by 642 per cent to 44,000? Is this is what you meant by health improvement before the last general election? Is it the case that whatever the spin in your statement, whatever the promises that you have made, the people of Wales are being taxed more and are receiving fewer public services than ever before?

I do not think, Presiding Officer, that you will allow me to answer most of that. I do not agree with any of it, I am afraid. However, there will be an opportunity, I am sure, during hustings before the next election, whenever it is held, for us to discuss those issues. I do not think that the issues that you and your party have already supported this afternoon, such as the Tobacco Advertising and Promotion Bill and the Children’s Commissioner for Wales Bill and some of the other Bills, are matters of spin. We do not need spin on a children’s commissioner or on banning tobacco advertising. All of us, whatever our party, believe in those issues.

Do you agree, Paul, that the Hunting Bill is nowhere near as controversial as people try to state it to be as far as the general population is concerned? Opinion poll after opinion poll, in urban and rural areas, have shown that people are overwhelmingly opposed to hunting with hounds. I welcome the Hunting Bill because I agree with the vast majority of people in rural and urban areas that it is a barbaric practice with no place in the modern age.

On the ban on tobacco advertising, Paul, I wonder if at some stage we might move towards educating the public towards a total ban on smoking in public places. I believe, as other speakers have said, that the toll that smoking is taking on the health of the people of Wales is unacceptable and must be radically addressed in the short, medium and long term. Such a ban would send a strong message that smoking in public places is socially unacceptable. We might have to work towards that in terms of educating the public.

We need a strong dialogue between the Assembly and Westminster on crime and justice issues. As far as youth justice is concerned, I welcome the move away from the unenlightened view of the last Tory Government, which failed to see a connection between unemployment and crime. That, to most people, is obvious and common sense. I am glad that we have moved away from that and that there is an emphasis on tackling the causes of crime. Custody simply tends to make many young offenders far worse, more sophisticated and hardened. We need to move away from that and recognise that a more enlightened approach is right and effective.

Is it the case that there is a recognition that there are an inadequate number of places in young offender institutions in Wales, which results in Welsh offenders going into custody in England? That creates all sorts of problems for the agencies that deal with young offenders because it is far more difficult and time consuming to arrange visits and that leads to difficulties in rehabilitation, which is compounded by the difficulty in arranging family visits.

Your views on the Hunting Bill were interesting because you do not represent an exclusively urban area. Your point about education in tobacco advertising is important and there is a huge role for the Assembly in that. I accept your point about dialogue on issues affecting law and order, crime and agencies, between the United Kingdom Government and the National Assembly for Wales. That is why—I think that Rhodri mentioned it earlier in his question and answer session—there is strong consultation between the Assembly and the Government, even though matters of criminal law are reserved.

I disagree with Lorraine Barrett and her three families in Cardiff. I do not know when she last visited the Rhondda, but there are far more families in Valley communities who are disappointed with the performance of the Labour Government over the last three and half years. In my community, for example, we have seen hospitals close, services withdrawn and the infrastructure of our communities deteriorate: our houses, schools and roads, We cannot even repair our bridges because of the lack of public spending. As you have heard, more people are in poverty since the Labour Government came to power. How can you justify paying back the national debt when there is such dire poverty in the south Wales valleys? There is so much deprivation. Are you more interested in the prosperous areas of middle England than in the poor areas of the South Wales valleys?

I also represent a south Wales Valley constituency, and I hope to continue to do so. I think that all of us who represent south Wales’s ex-mining communities are conscious of the important job of work that falls upon our shoulders.

On disappointment with the Government’s performance, that will have to be put to the test. I do not know when that test will come. It cannot be far away; it must be within the next 18 months to two years. We will then see who the people of Wales think should form the Government of the United Kingdom.

I do not agree with you on the national debt. Paying a huge amount of interest on debt every year is counterproductive. The enormous amounts that we were paying in debt repayments and unemployment benefit meant that we were depriving our public services of the necessary resources. We have reduced those payments and that is the main reason why the Assembly has had an enormous increase in the resources available to it as a result of this Government.

I welcome you to the Assembly, Paul, and I also welcome the Queen’s Speech, including the Hunting Bill, which is supported by people in rural and urban Wales. Do you share my amazement at the temerity of the leader of the Welsh Conservatives, when he professes to shed tears for rural Wales, given his party’s abysmal record in rural Wales? I am amazed at his reference to the burden of increasing regulation, not least because of the unmitigated disaster of his party’s policy of bus deregulation, which delivered hammer blows to people living in Wales’s rural communities.

At the risk of upsetting some of our Liberal Democrat friends, and I use that word advisedly, I ask you to remind the leader of the Welsh Liberal Democrats—and I am sorry that he is not in the Chamber at the moment—that he may be the leader of that party, but that he is also a member of the Welsh Government now: Deputy First Minister, no less. As such, whether he likes it or not, he has an umbilical relationship with the Westminster Government, and he needs to exercise collective Cabinet responsibility and not pick and choose when he can and cannot attack Labour.

Those are matters for the National Assembly for Wales and I would rather leave them to be dealt with by your excellent procedures and processes. I am tempted to discuss some of the issues that you raised, particularly with regard to rural Wales, but I think that, if I went too far, I would risk the wrath of the Presiding Officer. However, I accept your points and I think that we agree very much on the general issues and on how rural Wales has benefited from the Government’s actions.

I declare an interest as a local councillor and a school governor.

The Queen’s Speech is unclear on whether secondary education will be covered by an initiative or a Bill. However, I will presume that it will be a Bill. The Queen’s Speech also mentions creating more specialist schools. As it is the practice of schools in England, often in their admission policy, to rely heavily on at least 10 per cent of pupils being selected, can you guarantee that education Bills, as they affect Wales, will give us the freedom to determine an admission policy that does not demand selection?

The Queen’s Speech also includes the Vehicle (Crime) Bill. Do you consider dumping vehicles in the countryside to be a vehicle crime? There is an increasing trend towards that and, in view of the cost, in millions of pounds, to local authorities and police authorities and the grave cost to the environment and child safety, will you examine whether this Bill will consider the abandonment of vehicles in the countryside to be a vehicle crime?

Part of this is about regulating the motor salvage industry. We think that about 39,000 thefts and 6,000 fraudulent insurance claims could be avoided. Off the top of my head, I do not think that the Vehicle (Crime) Bill is specifically about the issue that Pauline raised, which I agree is a dreadful nuisance in our towns, cities and rural areas—I see such abandoned vehicles in my constituency. It is more about dealing with car theft and the receipts from that, but I will have to come back to you on that detail. However, I agree entirely with the principle to which you referred.

On the Special Educational Needs and Disability Bill, there has been close contact at official level—and, I guess, at Cabinet level—on that Bill. The Assembly’s wishes will be adhered to.

I thank Paul for outlining the benefits that will come to Wales as a result of the Queen’s Speech. I will ask a few questions about the Special Educational Needs and Disability Bill. Unlike the leader of the Welsh Conservatives, I know that this legislation will make a difference to Wales; in particular, to more vulnerable members of society. I am sure that, as Assembly Members, many of us see people coming to our surgeries with these kinds of problems. We want to have solutions to offer them.

This Bill will mean that parents of children with special educational needs will have a stronger voice, and it will have a huge impact on social inclusion. The Act will place new duties on schools, further and higher education institutions and adult education providers to ensure reasonable access for disabled people. It will benefit around 17,000 pupils with statements of special educational need in Wales. It will also give people with disabilities the opportunity to participate fully in our lifelong learning agenda. It is about giving our people a stake in society and a future in Wales.

Do you agree that this is another important step in securing an inclusive and tolerant society in Wales? Will you join me in condemning the remarks of Conservative Members who dismissed this Bill so lightly? I am sure that we all agree that this will make a difference to the people we see every day in our surgeries. It will make a difference in Wales and I warmly welcome it.

I also welcome it; it is an important Bill. I remind the Assembly that it covers devolved and reserved matters. Disability rights provision, apart from the duty to plan to increase accessibility, and equal opportunities, are reserved to Westminster. However, the duty to plan, although intended to help disabled pupils, primarily in relation to the organisation and administration of schools, is an Assembly matter. Therefore, there is a close working relationship between the Government and the Assembly on a matter with which I think everybody agrees.

Ym Mehefin, pleidleisiodd y Cynulliad o blaid cynnig a oedd yn gofyn i Lywodraeth San Steffan lunio unrhyw Fesur ar hela â chwn mewn modd a fyddai’n galluogi’r Cynulliad i benderfynu ar y mater pwysig hwnnw yng Nghymru. O wrando ar eich ymateb i Glyn Davies ynghynt, a wnewch chi ehangu ar pam nad ydych yn barod i gydnabod a gweithredu ar ran ewyllys ddemocrataidd y Cynulliad drwy drafod y Mesur Hela ymhellach yn San Steffan? Yn fwy penodol, a wnaeth Llywodraeth Cymru ofyn ichi ddylanwadu ar lunio’r Mesur hwnnw yn y modd hwnnw, gan roi’r pwerau i’r Cynulliad Cenedlaethol benderfynu ar y mater hwn, yn unol â phenderfyniad y Cynulliad ym Mehefin?

The Labour Party made a commitment at the general election to ensure a free vote in the House of Commons on hunting with dogs. That must be done through the House of Commons. That was the commitment that we made, and I think that it is right. The devolution settlement is such that criminal justice matters, which this is, should be matters for the House of Commons.

On contact with the National Assembly, on the general principle, which is covered by the options, that is a matter for the House of Commons. However, there may be, depending on the outcome of the vote, issues that will touch on the Assembly’s responsibilities. To that end, I will be in contact with Rhodri, or the appropriate Minister, to deal with those issues.

On propriety and the procedures involved, there will be occasions, and I remember saying that on my first day in the job, when I will disagree with the National Assembly. I am part of the collective responsibility of one Government—the United Kingdom Government—which also represents the people of Wales. The National Assembly has its own responsibilities. It has been elected separately, and may well have a different view from mine. I hope that that will not happen often; I am sure that it will not, but there may be occasions when that will happen. It is my responsibility to relay the National Assembly’s views. However, there is no responsibility on my part to always agree with them.

Are you aware that, despite the rather angry and aggressive rant to which you were subjected some while ago by a member of the Welsh Conservatives, this was not personally directed at you? He is usually a nice chap, one-to-one, but it is his style, and, frankly, I regret it. You have behaved with great dignity and supreme control. I am sorry that you have not always been accorded the courtesy that most Members of the National Assembly would wish to afford you when addressing you. I thank you for coming here.

I am used to all sorts of behaviour in the House of Commons. I did not take any offence from any Member of the Assembly. Thank you very much, however, for your kind comments.

I extend a warm welcome to you, in case you feel that certain Members of this Assembly are not according you the welcome that you deserve. I will ask a general question. As Secretary of State for Wales, you are the link between the National Assembly and the Westminster Government. As you know, we have a statutory obligation in the Assembly to sustainable development. We have placed that at the centre of all our policies and activities. In terms of the Queen’s Speech, were representations made to you about the importance of ensuring that legislation that is applicable to and that is to be implemented in Wales, includes sustainable development as an integral part of it? Did you pass those representations on to fellow Government Ministers to be included in the Queen’s Speech?

I do not know. Much of the detailed representations, as opposed to the big issues of whether this Bill or that Bill should go through, would be done at official level. I would have to check to see whether that occurred. If it were a matter of huge importance to the Assembly, then those matters would have been referred to the appropriate department. I do not have executive responsibility for any particular Bill. I am there as someone who has to facilitate the settlement and the ease of the negotiations. I have not had any representations made to me, but that does not mean that they have not been made. The appropriate department that is drawing up the details of the Bill might have to check that.

I warmly welcome the proposals that you have outlined today, Paul. I was particularly pleased to see the provision to extend the powers of the Children’s Commissioner. The fact that the Government will legislate on that issue twice in 12 months shows just how committed it is to the welfare of children across the UK, and also how willing it is to listen to representations from the Assembly. I thank my colleagues on the Health and Social Services Committee for helping to flesh out a Welsh Labour manifesto commitment. Are you, like me, confused about the position of the Conservatives here in the Assembly and in Westminster on this issue? Whereas David Melding has been calling for the Bill to be fast-tracked, the Conservatives in Westminster—in the form of their Welsh affairs spokesperson—have been calling for a pause. Do you agree that for this Bill to get on to the statute book we need to have all-party support, not just in this Assembly, but in the Houses of Parliament as well?

I also warmly welcome the strong focus on crime in the Queen’s Speech. Are you as disappointed as I am with Plaid Cymru’s attitude on this issue? Not only has Elfyn Llwyd dismissed that as a right-wing agenda, but Ieuan Wyn Jones has described it today as just window-dressing. As you said, Paul, crime is an issue that affects people in deprived communities, such as those that we represent, more than most. Do you agree that Plaid Cymru’s attitude shows how detached it is from the lives of people in the south Wales Valleys?

I congratulate you on representing the finest constituency in Wales. I have heard the comments of all parties today on the Children’s Commissioner for Wales Bill. I do not doubt that all the parties in this Chamber support that Bill and that Nick will liaise with his counterpart in the Palace of Westminster. I, like you, hope that there will be support for the Bill as it goes through the stages that I have no doubt it will. However, there was a little confusion over the last day or so. On your points on crime, you and I represent the same place. We know the importance, in Pontypool, Cwmbran and Blaenavon, of ensuring that we tackle violent crime. These measures will improve the quality of life for our joint constituents.

I have listened to the hunting lobby and anti-hunting lobby here today. I would like to warn you that you will see many of your MPs taking the about turn that we have noticed Gareth Thomas, the MP for Clwyd West, take this week. He has obviously understood that he will lose that seat because of his previous support for—

Secretary of State, you negotiated well with the fuel lobby during the 60 days. It is disturbing to see, after the announcements on fuel in Westminster, that there is no immediate help for hauliers and people in rural areas in the Queen’s Speech. What will you do to support hauliers and rural people who now pay more for their fuel that at any time in history?

In terms of the fuel lobby, and the importance of that issue in rural areas, which is quite acute, the measures that were brought in in the pre-budget review by Gordon Brown go a long way to assuaging some of the difficulties. As you said, I met a fair number of representatives of the haulage industry. The reduction in vehicle excise duty, together with the reduction in the price of fuel after the next budget and the other measures that we have introduced, will directly help financially those people concerned about the cost of fuel. You will also be aware that the increase in fuel prices was largely the result of an increase in crude oil prices. However, there are other ways that we can help the hauliers and they have been reasonably successful.

You touched again on the hunting lobby and mentioned my colleague, Gareth Thomas. I come back to the important point that there will be a free vote on that Bill. Members of the House of Commons must decide as their conscience directs them; it is up to them how they will vote. That applies to all MPs.

Welcome, Secretary of State. I would like to look briefly at the agricultural content of the Queen’s Speech and draw your attention to measures that will be adopted by the National Assembly for Wales. One is a free advisory service for farmers, another is an independent appeals panel to deal with problems and, finally, the provision of free school milk to children at key stage 1. Do you not agree that the partnership Government of Wales is leading the way for agriculture and that it is time that Westminster caught up?

I would agree that—you could not expect me to say anything else in the Assembly; if I said ‘no’ I would be in awful trouble—the measures that the partnership Government here has provided for agriculture over the last few months are welcome. We are all conscious of the difficulties that people in farming and in rural communities face. I hope that those measures will be successful.

Welcome, Secretary of State. I will be brief and ask four questions. [Laughter.]

Why is it that the working families tax credit and the disabled person’s tax credit are not made easier so that people can get their benefits from the post office weekly? What steps will be taken to curtail the Benefits Agency from forcing people to use automated credit transfer and to receive their benefits on a monthly basis instead of weekly at their local sub-post offices? What steps will be taken to address the delays that are currently facing all applicants for disability living allowance and mobility benefits? Only last week, two constituents came to me having gone to appeal. These appeals are outstanding for months, if not years—for example, 14 months—when those benefits are refused. Finally, what steps have been taken to safeguard sub-post offices, not just in rural areas, because everyone understands the rural situation, even John Prescott, but to safeguard the suburban post offices that serve our communities?

I think that Brian was wandering a long way from the Queen’s Speech. However, I spoke to the First Minister this afternoon about the importance of post offices, not just to our rural communities, but to those which you and I serve. We represent Valleys constituencies and we know that many of what we might call urban villages in the Valleys are in similar position to villages in rural areas. In England, money has been set aside to safeguard post offices in urban areas. There was a consequential read-across and it is now up to the Assembly to work out how best to deal with that. However, I am in constant contact with Rhodri on this and I accept your points, Brian.

I am delighted to welcome you. I am sorry that I have not been here to listen to you as I have been on constituency business. Do you agree—

I felt that I had to, Llywydd, at this late stage.

Do you agree that the excellent programme that we heard about from the partnership Government that is led by Labour, to which Mick Bates referred, has mainly come about as a result of an excellent comprehensive spending review? You, and Labour MPs, fought to get a good settlement from Gordon Brown and I thank you for that.

I could not disagree with that, Peter. I understand how important the problems in your constituency, Blaenau Gwent, are and why you needed to be there.