Cynulliad Cenedlaethol CymruNational Assembly for Wales · Cyfarfod llawnPlenary sitting
Dydd Mercher 27 Mehefin 2001
Wednesday 27 June 2001
CynnwysContents
- 3Pwynt o DrefnPoint of Order
- 4Cymru a’r BydWales and the World 6 o bleidleisiau6 votes
- 38Cynnig TrefniadolProcedural Motion 1 bleidlais1 vote
- 39Datganiad ar Rhoi Cymunedau’n GyntafStatement on Communities First
- 57Dadl ar yr Undeb Ewropeaidd o dan Reol Sefydlog Rhif 6.5Debate on the European Union under Standing Order No. 6.5 7 o bleidleisiau7 votes
- 84Pwynt o DrefnPoint of Order
- 84Dadl Plaid Leiafrifol (Plaid Cymru): Mynediad i Gartrefi FforddiadwyMinority Party Debate (Plaid Cymru): Access to Affordable Housing 6 o bleidleisiau6 votes
PleidleisiauVotes
TrafodionProceedings
Cyfarfu’r Cynulliad am 9.05 a.m. gyda’r Llywydd yn y Gadair.
The Assembly met at 9.05 a.m. with the Presiding Officer in the Chair.
Pwynt o Drefn
Point of Order
Dafydd Elis-Thomas Y Llywydd siaradwyd yn Gymraeg ac yn Saesneg t. 3
Dafydd Elis-Thomas The Presiding Officer spoken in Welsh and English p. 3
Nid oes cwestiynau y bore yma.
in Welsh There are no questions this morning.
I understand that the statement on funding for Communities First by the Minister for Finance, Local Government and Communities has not been circulated. Will you comment, Minister?
yn Saesneg Deallaf nad yw’r datganiad ar nawdd ar gyfer Rhoi Cymunedau’n Gyntaf gan y Gweinidog dros Gyllid, Llywodraeth Leol a Chymunedau wedi’i ddosbarthu. A wnewch chi sylw ar hyn, Weinidog?
Edwina Hart The Minister for Finance, Local Government and Communities spoken in English p. 3
Edwina Hart Y Gweinidog dros Gyllid, Llywodraeth Leol a Chymunedau siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 3
I understand that is so, Presiding Officer, and I am happy to make that statement later if you are content. Alternatively, we could ask the Minister for Assembly Business to table the statement on another day, as sufficient courtesy will not have been extended to the other parties if they have not seen the statement prior to me making it.
Deallaf fod hynny’n wir, Lywydd, ac yr wyf yn fodlon gwneud y datganiad hwnnw yn ddiweddarach os ydych yn fodlon. Fel arall, gallem ofyn i’r Trefnydd gyflwyno’r datganiad ar ddiwrnod arall, gan na fyddai hyn yn dangos cwrteisi digonol i’r pleidiau eraill am na fyddent wedi gweld y datganiad cyn imi ei wneud.
Dafydd Elis-Thomas The Presiding Officer spoken in English p. 3
Dafydd Elis-Thomas Y Llywydd siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 3
What is the feeling of the Members?
Beth yw barn yr Aelodau?
Nick Bourne The Leader of the Welsh Conservatives spoken in English p. 3
Nick Bourne Arweinydd Ceidwadwyr Cymru siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 3
We were unaware that a statement was to be made. What was it to be about?
Nid oeddem yn ymwybodol y bwriadwyd gwneud datganiad. Beth oedd pwnc y datganiad?
It was to be an update that I promised to give the Assembly on the Communities First consultation process. It is not urgent and, as Members have not seen a copy of the statement, I am happy to make it later today, or to ask the Minister for Assembly Business to table it for another day.
Yr oedd yn ddatganiad yr addewais y byddwn yn ei roi i’r Cynulliad ar gynnydd proses ymgynghorol Rhoi Cymunedau’n Gyntaf. Nid yw’n fater brys a, chan nad yw’r Aelodau wedi gweld copi o’r datganiad, yr wyf yn fwy na pharod i’w wneud yn ddiweddarach heddiw, neu ofyn i’r Trefnydd ei gyflwyno ar gyfer diwrnod arall.
Ieuan Wyn Jones The Leader of the Opposition spoken in English p. 3
Ieuan Wyn Jones Arweinydd yr Wrthblaid siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 3
I think that the former is the appropriate way to proceed. This is an important matter for Members in view of the number of areas that might benefit from Communities First, and it is important that we know what the process will be.
Credaf mai’r ail ffordd yw’r ffordd briodol o barhau. Mae hwn yn fater pwysig i’r Aelodau, o ystyried faint o ardaloedd a allai elwa ar Roi Cymunedau’n Gyntaf, ac mae’n bwysig inni wybod beth fydd y broses.
Dafydd Elis-Thomas The Presiding Officer spoken in Welsh and English p. 3
Dafydd Elis-Thomas Y Llywydd siaradwyd yn Gymraeg ac yn Saesneg t. 3
If you seek to give that statement at another time, I have a further difficulty in that there are no questions today and therefore my next duty is to call the First Minister to propose the debate on ‘Wales and the World’.
yn Saesneg Os ydych am wneud y datganiad hwnnw ar adeg arall, mae gennyf anhawster pellach am nad oes unrhyw gwestiynau heddiw ac felly fy nyletswydd nesaf fydd galw ar Brif Weinidog Cymru i gynnig y ddadl ar ‘Gymru a’r Byd’.
O weld nad yw Prif Weinidog Cymru yn y Siambr, ac oherwydd yr amgylchiadau anarferol, byddaf yn gohirio’r Cyfarfod Llawn am 10 munud. Felly, byddwn yn ailymgynnull am 9.16 a.m.
in Welsh Seeing that the First Minister is not in the Chamber, and because of the unusual circumstances, I will adjourn Plenary for 10 minutes. Therefore, we will reconvene at 9.16 a.m.
Gohiriwyd y Cyfarfod Llawn.
The Plenary was adjourned.
Ailymgynullodd y Cynulliad am 9.16 a.m.
The Assembly reconvened at 9.16 a.m.
Cymru a’r Byd
Wales and the World
Dafydd Elis-Thomas Y Llywydd siaradwyd yn Gymraeg t. 4
Dafydd Elis-Thomas The Presiding Officer spoken in Welsh p. 4
Yr wyf wedi dethol gwelliannau 1, 2 a 3 yn enw William Graham a gwelliannau 4 a 5 yn enw Jocelyn Davies.
I have selected amendments 1, 2 and 3 in the name of William Graham, and amendments 4 and 5 in the name of Jocelyn Davies.
Rhodri Morgan Prif Weinidog Cymru siaradwyd yn Gymraeg t. 4
Rhodri Morgan The First Minister spoken in Welsh p. 4
Cynigiaf fod
I propose that
Rhodri Morgan Prif Weinidog Cymru (parhad) siaradwyd yn Gymraeg ac yn Saesneg t. 4
Rhodri Morgan The First Minister (continued) spoken in Welsh and English p. 4
Yn gyntaf, ymddiheuraf am anghofio nad oedd cwestiynau llafar ar yr agenda cyn y ddadl bwysig hon.
in Welsh First, I apologise for forgetting that there were no oral questions on the agenda before this important debate.
I welcome the opportunity to debate this important subject, which should unite us. We all want to see Wales enjoying a higher profile and a better image in the world. Wales does not enjoy a high profile at present, and the country’s image is often stereotyped and outdated. The questions that I am usually asked when visiting the United States of America are ‘what part of England are you from?’ and ‘did you not used to be good at rugby?’. If Wales is recognised at all, it is for coal mines, castles, rugby—on occasion—and mountains and sheep. The House of Commons Select Committee on Welsh Affairs produced a report last year. Many of its messages, even though they were uncomfortable for us, were familiar and not necessarily inaccurate. We will consider the report’s recommendations. Therefore, we must raise our profile and update and improve our image.
yn Saesneg Croesawaf y cyfle i gynnal dadl ar y pwnc pwysig hwn, a ddylai ein huno. Mae pob un ohonom am weld Cymru’n mwynhau proffil uwch a delwedd well yn y byd. Nid oes gan Gymru broffil uchel ar hyn o bryd, ac mae delwedd y wlad yn aml yn ystrydebol ac yn hen ffasiwn. Y cwestiynau a ofynnir imi fel arfer wrth ymweld ag Unol Daleithiau America yw ‘o ba ran o Loegr yr ydych chi’n dod?’ ac ‘onid oeddech chi’n arfer chwarae rygbi’n dda?’. Os caiff Cymru ei chydnabod o gwbl, mae hynny am ei phyllau glo, cestyll, rygbi—yn achlysurol—ac am ei mynyddoedd a’i defaid. Y llynedd, cynhyrchodd Pwyllgor Dethol ar Faterion Cymreig Tŷ’r Cyffredin adroddiad. Yr oedd nifer o’i negeseuon, er eu bod yn ein hanesmwytho, yn rhai cyfarwydd ac nid oeddent o anghenraid yn anghywir. Byddwn yn ystyried argymhellion yr adroddiad. Felly, rhaid inni godi ein proffil a diweddaru a gwella ein delwedd.
This is a good story to tell, provided that you can resolve the ancient and modern issue—the coracle and the fibre optic cable. Professional image-makers do not see a problem in marrying Wales’s ancient language and traditions with its vibrant, modern society and culture. We have a once in a generation chance to promote Wales, through a new and innovative democracy. The National Assembly Cabinet in the only one in the world—as far as I am aware—with a majority of women members, and our legal duty towards sustainable development is almost unique.
yn Saesneg Mae hon yn stori dda i’w hadrodd, ar yr amod y gallwch ddatrys y gwrthdaro rhwng yr hynafol a’r modern—sef y cwrwgl a’r cebl ffeibr optig. Nid yw’r rheini sy’n gweithio’n broffesiynol ar greu delwedd yn gweld problem wrth uno iaith a thraddodiadau hynafol Cymru gyda’i chymdeithas a’i diwylliant modern, bywiog. Mae gennym gyfle euraid i hyrwyddo Cymru, drwy gyfrwng democratiaeth newydd a dyfeisgar. Cabinet y Cynulliad Cenedlaethol yw’r unig un yn y byd—cyn belled ag yr wyf fi’n ymwybodol—gyda mwyafrif o’r aelodau yn ferched, ac mae ein dyletswydd gyfreithiol tuag at ddatblygu cynaliadwy bron yn unigryw.
People might ask what practical difference this will make to the lives of people of Wales. It will make a difference in six areas. The first is inward investment. We must reposition ourselves as a clever country rather than a low-cost country. It will be impossible for us to be a low-cost country when eastern European countries with wage levels at one sixth of those in Wales join the European Union. The second area is exports from small, medium-sized, and sometimes large, enterprises. That probably has a greater impact on improving Wales’s self-confidence and, possibly, gross domestic product, than inward investment. The third area is tourism. We must reposition ourselves in that respect also. We cannot sell sun, sea and sand. We need a new tourist market that depends on activities, heritage and culture, rather than on the idea of a fortnight’s holiday by the sea. That type of holiday now takes place in countries such as Spain, Greece, Turkey and other lower cost countries. The fourth area is attracting international students to Wales’s higher education institutions. That could be a make or break issue for the viability of our colleges, because international students bring their own funding with them. The fifth area is conferences and sports events. These are important to the recognition of Wales. Finally, the sixth area is cultural exports. There is a huge international market for Celtic music and arts and crafts of the more tangible kind. If we can secure the share to which Wales is entitled as a result of its creative talents, there is a major market open to us.
yn Saesneg Efallai y gofynna pobl pa wahaniaeth ymarferol a wnaiff hyn i fywydau pobl Cymru. Bydd yn gwneud gwahaniaeth mewn chwe maes. Y cyntaf yw mewnfuddsoddiad. Rhaid inni ailsefydlu ein hunain fel gwlad alluog yn hytrach na gwlad isel ei chostau. Bydd yn amhosibl inni fod yn wlad isel ei chostau pan fydd gwledydd Ewropeaidd â chyflogau sydd yn un rhan o chwech o gyflogau Cymru yn ymuno â’r Undeb Ewropeaidd. Yr ail faes yw allforion gan fusnesau bach a chanolig eu maint, ac weithiau gan fusnesau mawr. Caiff hynny, fwy na thebyg effaith fwy ar wella hunan hyder Cymru ac, o bosibl, ar ei chynnyrch mewnwladol crynswth, na mewnfuddsoddiad. Y trydydd maes yw twristiaeth. Rhaid inni ailsefydlu ein hunain ar y wedd honno yn ogystal. Ni allwn werthu’r haul, y môr a’r tywod. Mae angen marchnad dwristiaeth newydd arnom sydd yn dibynnu ar weithgareddau, treftadaeth a diwylliant, yn hytrach nag ar y syniad o bythefnos o wyliau ger y môr. Mae’r math hwnnw o wyliau bellach yn digwydd mewn gwledydd fel Sbaen, Groeg, Twrci a gwledydd eraill isel eu costau. Y pedwerydd maes yw denu myfyrwyr rhyngwladol i sefydliadau addysg uwch Cymru. Gallai hynny fod yn fater tyngedfennol ar gyfer hyfywedd ein colegau, am fod myfyrwyr rhyngwladol yn dod â’u nawdd eu hunain gyda hwy. Y pumed maes yw cynadleddau a digwyddiadau chwaraeon. Mae’r rhain yn bwysig ar gyfer creu ymwybyddiaeth o Gymru. Yn olaf, y chweched maes yw allforion diwylliannol. Ceir marchnad ryngwladol enfawr ar gyfer cerddoriaeth Geltaidd, a chelf a chrefft mwy cyffyrddadwy. Os gallwn ddiogelu’r gyfran y mae gan Gymru’r hawl iddi o ganlyniad i’w doniau creadigol, mae marchnad fawr ar agor inni.
In many ways, Wales is regarded as a plucky country, particularly for renewing the economy after the collapse of the coal and steel industries in the 1970s and 1980s. We are regarded as having a skilled and flexible workforce with low absenteeism and strike records. We have a thriving, but not yet big enough, high technology sector. Everybody recognises the landscape of Wales.
yn Saesneg Ar sawl gwedd, ystyrir bod Cymru’n wlad ddewr, yn arbennig oherwydd iddi adnewyddu ei heconomi ar ôl cwymp y diwydiannau glo a dur yn y 1970au a’r 1980au. Ystyrir bod gennym weithlu medrus a hyblyg gyda chofnod isel o absenoldeb a streiciau. Mae gennym sector uwchdechnoleg lewyrchus, ond nid yw’n ddigon mawr eto. Mae pawb yn adnabod tirlun Cymru.
We are also recognised as having many talented people who have made a contribution during the twentieth century out of all proportion to a country with a population of 3 million. Such people include Dylan Thomas, Catherine Zeta Jones, the Manic Street Preachers and the other outstanding pop bands of the last few years, and politicians of the calibre of Lloyd George, Nye Bevan and Jim Griffiths.
yn Saesneg Cydnabyddir hefyd fod gennym lawer o bobl ddawnus sydd wedi gwneud cyfraniad anghymesur yn ystod yr ugeinfed ganrif i wlad â phoblogaeth o 3 miliwn. Mae pobl o’r fath yn cynnwys Dylan Thomas, Catherine Zeta Jones, y Manic Street Preachers a grwpiau pop nodedig eraill dros yr ychydig flynyddoedd diwethaf, a gwleidyddion o safon Lloyd George, Aneurin Bevan a Jim Griffiths.
What have we done? We have established a sub-committee, which I chair, to give strategic focus to our work on Wales in the world. It gives an impetus to our drive to raise our profile and improve our image. Its members include myself, the Deputy First Minister, the Minister for Culture, Sport and the Welsh Language, the Minister for Assembly Business and the Minister for Education and Lifelong Learning.
yn Saesneg Beth a wnaethom? Yr ydym wedi sefydlu is-bwyllgor, yr wyf fi’n gadeirydd arno, i roi ffocws strategol i’n gwaith ar Gymru yn y byd. Mae’n rhoi ysgogiad i’n hymdrech i godi ein proffil a gwella ein delwedd. Mae ei aelodau’n cynnwys myfi, Dirprwy Brif Weinidog Cymru, y Gweinidog dros Ddiwylliant, Chwaraeon a’r Gymraeg, y Trefnydd a’r Gweinidog dros Addysg a Dysgu Gydol Oes.
We believe that we have made a difference in the past two years. We have attracted an increasing number of high profile visitors to Wales. Among the most recent visitors are the Premier of New South Wales, who addressed the Assembly, the Vice Premier of the People’s Republic of China, the President of Nigeria, Crown Prince Billah of Brunei, the Taoiseach, Bertie Aherne, who addressed us on St David’s Day, and President Pujol of Catalunya. The United States of America and Ireland have set up new consular offices in Wales. We have signed memorandums of agreement with New South Wales and the Chubut province in Argentina, with which we have a special relationship for reasons that I need not mention. We have also developed a programme of international events to showcase Wales in the world.
yn Saesneg Credwn inni wneud gwahaniaeth dros y ddwy flynedd ddiwethaf. Yr ydym wedi denu nifer cynyddol o ymwelwyr uchel eu proffil i Gymru. Ymhlith yr ymwelwyr mwyaf diweddar yr oedd Prif Weinidog De Cymru Newydd, a anerchodd y Cynulliad, Dirprwy Brif Weinidog Gweriniaeth y Bobl, China, Arlywydd Nigeria, Tywysog Coronog Billah o Brunei, y Taoiseach, Bertie Aherne, a’n hanerchodd ar Ddydd Gŵyl Dewi, ac Arlywydd Pujol o Gatalunya. Sefydlodd Unol Daleithiau America ac Iwerddon swyddfeydd consylaidd newydd yng Nghymru. Yr ydym wedi llofnodi memoranda cytundeb gyda De Cymru Newydd a thalaith y Chubut yn yr Ariannin, y mae gennym berthynas arbennig â hwy am resymau nad oes angen imi eu crybwyll. Yr ydym hefyd wedi datblygu rhaglen o ddigwyddiadau rhyngwladol i arddangos Cymru yn y byd.
On 1 March 2000, we launched the new Wales World Nation communications package. Almost 40 representatives of the diplomatic corps in Britain, as well as the press and people from all walks of life in Wales, attended the excellent launch day at the Celtic Manor in Newport. We have expanded—and almost doubled—our programme of trade missions to assist Welsh small and medium-sized enterprises in trading overseas.
yn Saesneg Ar 1 Mawrth 2000, lansiwyd y pecyn cyfathrebu newydd Wales World Nation. Mynychodd bron i 40 o gynrychiolwyr o’r corfflu llysgenhadol ym Mhrydain, yn ogystal â’r wasg a phobl o bob cefndir yng Nghymru, y diwrnod lansio gwych yn y Celtic Manor yng Nghasnewydd. Yr ydym wedi ymestyn—a bron wedi dyblu—ein rhaglen o genadaethau masnach i gynorthwyo busnesau bach a chanolig eu maint yng Nghymru i fasnachu dramor.
We will debate Wales’s role in Europe later today. The National Assembly for Wales’s existence gives us an opportunity to promote Wales, because if there is a National Assembly for Wales, there must be a Wales. That is of great assistance when dealing with markets such as the USA, which have not heard of Wales. They cannot figure out whether it is like Scotland, like Ireland, not like either of them, a part of England, a county or whatever. However, I can explain to them that my position as First Minister of the National Assembly for Wales gives me equivalent status—although I am not directly elected by the people—to the governor of California, Wyoming and so on. Similarly, in Australia I can say that my position is like that of the Premier of New South Wales and that we have a state parliament, legislature or assembly. That gives us equivalent status and is helpful in making people understand what Wales is in markets where previously there was confusion. That is helpful and gives us a status similar to that that Scotland and Ireland have as a result of their much larger expatriate communities, which are a result of the sad events that occurred in Scottish and Irish history during the past few centuries.
yn Saesneg Byddwn yn cynnal dadl ar rôl Cymru yn Ewrop yn ddiweddarach heddiw. Mae bodolaeth Cynulliad Cenedlaethol Cymru yn rhoi cyfle inni hyrwyddo Cymru, oherwydd os oes Cynulliad Cenedlaethol Cymru yn bodoli, rhaid bod yna Gymru. Mae hynny o gymorth mawr wrth ymdrin â marchnadoedd megis UDA, nad ydynt wedi clywed am Gymru. Ni allant benderfynu a yw’n debyg i’r Alban, yn debyg i Iwerddon, yn annhebyg i’r naill neu’r llall, yn rhan o Loegr, yn sir neu yn rhywbeth arall. Fodd bynnag, gallaf egluro iddynt fod fy swydd fel Prif Weinidog Cynulliad Cenedlaethol Cymru yn rhoi imi statws cyfatebol—er na chaf fy ethol yn uniongyrchol gan y bobl—i lywodraethwr Califfornia, Wyoming ac yn y blaen. Yn yr un modd, yn Awstralia gallaf ddweud fod fy swydd yn debyg i honno sydd gan Brif Weinidog De Cymru Newydd, a bod gennym senedd daleithiol, corff deddfwriaethol neu gynulliad. Rhydd hynny statws cyfatebol inni ac mae’n ddefnyddiol wrth wneud i bobl ddeall beth yw Cymru mewn marchnadoedd lle yr oedd dryswch gynt. Mae hynny’n ddefnyddiol a rhydd inni statws tebyg i’r statws hwnnw sydd gan yr Alban ac Iwerddon o ganlyniad i’w cymunedau alltud mwy, a ddeilliodd yn sgîl digwyddiadau trist yn hanes y gwledydd hynny dros yr ychydig ganrifoedd diwethaf.
During the past fortnight, I met the Presidents of Argentina and Chile, as part of my visit to Latin America, and signed a joint declaration of co-operation with the province of Chubut in Patagonia, with which we have strong, historic connections. I recently signed a new protocol with Catalunya. Other world regions are approaching us and are keen to develop firmer relationships with Wales, because they perceive us as a country that has transformed its economy.
yn Saesneg Dros y pythefnos diwethaf, cyfarfûm ag Arlywyddion yr Ariannin a Chile, fel rhan o’m hymweliad i America Ladin, a llofnodais gyd-ddatganiad o gydweithrediad gyda thalaith Chubut ym Mhatagonia, y mae gennym gysylltiadau hanesyddol cryf â hi. Yn ddiweddar llofnodais brotocol newydd gyda Catalunya. Mae rhanbarthau eraill yn y byd yn cysylltu â ni ac yn awyddus i ddatblygu perthnasau cadarnach â Chymru, gan eu bod yn ein gweld fel gwlad a drawsffurfiodd ei heconomi.
We are adding to the rolling programme of international events, as we have done over the past two years, to promote Wales in the world. We are planning similar events in California this September, in the Hankyu department store in Japan in November and, possibly, in China. We are building on the successful Wales World Nation communications package to promote Wales effectively on the international stage and we are working with the Foreign and Commonwealth Office and other Whitehall departments to improve their knowledge of Wales. We are also looking to plug into the network of Welsh societies overseas to encourage their role as facilitators to promote Wales.
yn Saesneg Yr ydym yn ychwanegu at at y rhaglen barhaus o ddigwyddiadau rhyngwladol, fel y gwnaethom dros y ddwy flynedd ddiwethaf, i hyrwyddo Cymru yn y byd. Yr ydym yn cynllunio digwyddiadau tebyg yng Nghaliffornia fis Medi eleni, yn siop Hankyu yn Japan fis Tachwedd ac, o bosibl, yn China. Yr ydym am adeiladu ar sail y pecyn cyfathrebu llwyddiannus Wales World Nation i hyrwyddo Cymru’n effeithiol yn rhyngwladol a chydweithiwn â’r Swyddfa Dramor a Chymanwlad ac adrannau eraill yn Whitehall i wella eu gwybodaeth am Gymru. Yr ydym hefyd yn ceisio sefydlu cysylltiad â’r rhwydwaith o gymunedau Cymreig dramor i annog eu rôl fel hyrwyddwyr i hybu Cymru.
As regards international students, some 110 nationalities are represented in the student bodies of our various higher education institutions. Those students are offered facilities in our excellent higher education system and contribute to diversity and a culturally enriching experience in Wales. We will identify people from across the world to undertake an ambassadorial role on behalf of Wales.
yn Saesneg O ran myfyrwyr rhyngwladol, cynrychiolir ryw 110 o genhedloedd yng nghyrff myfyrwyr ein sefydliadau addysg uwch amrywiol. Cynigir adnoddau i’r myfyrwyr hynny yn ein system addysg uwch ardderchog a chyfrannant at yr amrywiaeth a’r profiad diwylliannol cyfoethogol yng Nghymru. Byddwn yn cysylltu â phobl ledled y byd i ymgymryd â rôl lysgenhadol ar ran Cymru.
On conferences and sporting events, we are determined to capitalise on the success of the European summit, the Rugby World Cup, the Network Q rally and, most recently, the Football Association Cup final, to attract international events to Wales. We will read with great interest Cardiff City and County Council’s analysis of the FA Cup final’s impact on the profile of Cardiff and Wales. We are bidding to host the Ryder Cup in 2009 jointly with the private sector. We will know the outcome of that bid in a few months’ time.
yn Saesneg O ran cynadleddau a digwyddiadau chwaraeon, yr ydym yn benderfynol o fanteisio ar lwyddiant yr uwchgynhadledd Ewropeaidd, Cwpan Rygbi’r Byd, rali’r Network Q ac, yn fwyaf diweddar, gêm derfynol Cwpan y Gymdeithas Bêl-droed, i ddenu digwyddiadau rhyngwladol i Gymru. Byddwn yn darllen dadansoddiad Cyngor Dinas a Sir Caerdydd o effaith gêm derfynol Cwpan yr FA ar broffil Caerdydd a Chymru â chryn ddiddordeb. Yr ydym yn gwneud cais i groesawu Cwpan Ryder yn 2009 ar y cyd â’r sector preifat. Byddwn yn gwybod canlyniad y cais hwnnw mewn ychydig fisoedd.
We are reviewing existing Assembly and Assembly sponsored public bodies’ overseas offices and exploring the potential for joint facilities and for establishing Wales World Nation centres. We are getting the Assembly sponsored public bodies to try to synchronise their image so that they all have a modern Welsh image. We are also trying to get all the websites synchronised. You would be amazed at the confusion in the styling of all the different websites in the public and private sectors. Even those in the public sector are not synchronised. They do not use the same symbols nor do they cross-refer to the information available on the other websites, which can be important.
yn Saesneg Yr ydym yn adolygu swyddfeydd tramor y Cynulliad a’r cyrff cyhoeddus a noddir ganddo ac yn archwilio’r potensial ar gyfer cyfleusterau ar y cyd ac ar gyfer sefydlu canolfannau Wales World Nation. Yr ydym yn bwrw ati i sicrhau bod cyrff cyhoeddus a noddir gan y Cynulliad yn ceisio cysoni eu delwedd fel bod gan bob un ohonynt ddelwedd Gymreig fodern. Yr ydym hefyd yn ceisio cysoni yr holl wefannau. Fe synnech pe gwelech y dryswch o ran arddull yr holl wefannau gwahanol yn y sector cyhoeddus a’r sector preifat. Nid yw hyd yn oed y rheini yn y sector cyhoeddus yn gyson â’i gilydd. Ni ddefnyddiant yr un symbolau ac ni chroesgyfeiriant at yr wybodaeth sydd ar gael ar wefannau eraill, a all fod yn bwysig.
On our image abroad, we need to go through the same exercise as Ireland, Scotland and New Zealand have done as countries that are roughly the same size. They are a little bigger than Wales. We need to develop an image or brand that is recognised throughout the world and does the job that our country needs. Those countries repositioned themselves in the market as small, clever countries with a wide range of excellent exports. For example, Scotland managed to move away from the old stereotypes of sheep and highland flings and Ireland from shillelaghs and other twee concepts related to old Ireland. Those were successfully ejected from Ireland’s image around five years ago by means of an effort similar to that we are discussing today. To do even half of what Scotland, Ireland or New Zealand did to reposition themselves in their market would have a considerable impact on our gross domestic product. The Assembly must lead on this.
yn Saesneg O ran ein delwedd dramor, mae angen inni gynnal yr un ymarfer ag a wnaeth Iwerddon, yr Alban a Seland Newydd fel gwledydd sydd tua’r un maint. Maent ychydig yn fwy na Chymru. Mae angen inni ddatblygu delwedd neu frand a adwaenir ledled y byd ac i wneud y gwaith sydd ei angen ar ein gwlad. Ailsefydlodd y gwledydd hynny eu hunain yn y farchnad fel gwledydd bach, galluog, gydag ystod eang o allforion gwych. Er enghraifft, llwyddodd yr Alban i ddiosg yr hen ystrydebau o ddefaid a dawnsfeydd yr Ucheldiroedd a llwyddodd Iwerddon i ddianc rhag y shillelaghs a chysyniadau mursennaidd eraill a oedd yn perthyn i’r hen Iwerddon. Cafwyd gwared ar y rheini yn llwyddiannus o ddelwedd Iwerddon tua phum mlynedd yn ôl drwy ymdrech debyg i’r un a drafodwn heddiw. Byddai hyd yn oed gwneud hanner yr hyn a wnaeth yr Alban, Iwerddon neu Seland Newydd i ailsefydlu eu hunain yn eu marchnadoedd yn cael cryn effaith ar ein cynnyrch mewnwladol crynswth. Rhaid i’r Cynulliad arwain y ffordd ar hyn.
I will stop there and ask you to consider the motion. I am interested to hear what other parties have to say and I will give my recommendations on the amendments in my closing speech.
yn Saesneg Dof i ben gyda hynny a gofyn ichi ystyried y cynnig. Mae gennyf ddiddordeb yn yr hyn sydd gan y pleidiau eraill i’w ddweud a rhoddaf fy argymhellion ar y gwelliannau yn fy araith olaf.
I propose the following amendments in the name of Jocelyn Davies. Amendment 4: add at the end of the motion:
Cynigiaf y gwelliannau canlynol yn enw Jocelyn Davies. Gwelliant 4: ychwanegu ar ddiwedd y cynnig:
I propose amendment 5. Add at the end of the motion:
Cynigiaf welliant 5. Ychwanegu ar ddiwedd y cynnig:
Yesterday some of us spent lunchtime with the international division of the Welsh Development Agency. We were impressed by the formidable competition that it faced in promoting Wales as a site for inward investment. There are now 150 separate development agencies in Europe alone. How do we persuade anyone that Wales has something special to offer? The WDA warned us that every small nation says that it has a willing and skilled workforce, good training facilities, fine industrial sites, modern communications and generous government grants. To succeed, you have to persuade the potential investor that Wales has something unique to offer. However, you must first persuade the customer that Wales exists. I am aware of that problem, as my previous work took me to 25 different countries. I had a hard job persuading colleagues that I was not English. My personal experience was confirmed by the recent British Council survey undertaken in 17 different countries. By a large margin, the most common association with the word ‘Wales’ is Diana—a dead princess.
Ddoe, treuliodd rai ohonom amser cinio gydag is-adran ryngwladol Awdurdod Datblygu Cymru. Yr oeddem yn llawn edmygedd tuag at y gystadleuaeth aruthrol yr oedd yn ei hwynebu wrth hyrwyddo Cymru fel safle ar gyfer mewnfuddsoddiad. Ceir 150 o awdurdodau datblygu unigol bellach yn Ewrop yn unig. Sut y gallwn ddarbwyllo unrhyw un fod gan Gymru rywbeth arbennig i’w gynnig? Fe’n rhybuddiwyd gan y WDA fod pob cenedl fach yn dweud bod ganddi weithlu parod a medrus, cyfleusterau hyfforddi da, safleoedd diwydiannol gwych, dulliau cyfathrebu modern a grantiau hael gan y llywodraeth. Er mwyn llwyddo rhaid ichi argyhoeddi’r rheini sydd â’r potensial i fod yn fuddsoddwyr fod gan Gymru rywbeth unigryw i’w gynnig. Fodd bynnag, yn gyntaf rhaid ichi ddarbwyllo’r cwsmer fod Cymru yn bodoli. Yr wyf yn ymwybodol o’r broblem honno, gan imi ymweld â 25 o wledydd gwahanol gyda’m swydd flaenorol. Yr oedd yn anodd darbwyllo fy nghydweithwyr nad Sais oeddwn. Cadarnhawyd fy mhrofiad personol gan arolwg diweddar a gynhaliwyd mewn 17 o wledydd gwahanol gan y Cyngor Prydeinig. Y cysylltiad mwyaf cyffredin â’r gair ‘Cymru’, o bell ffordd, yw Diana—tywysoges farw.
What is the lesson? The first lesson is one that we must face. We must not fool ourselves about the size of the job. In one meeting of the Committee on European Affairs, we had a report on how Wales’s profile had been raised in, I think, nine countries. We then discovered that the relevant unit was doing valiant work with a staff of four and a budget of less than £500,000. After paying salaries, air fares and hotel bills and dividing the remainder by nine, the profile may have been raised, but it was by an invisibly small amount. That was our nanometric technology.
Beth yw’r wers? Y wers gyntaf yw’r un sydd yn rhaid inni ei hwynebu. Ni ddylem geisio twyllo ein hunain ynglŷn â maint y dasg. Yn un o gyfarfodydd y Pwyllgor Materion Ewropeaidd, cawsom adroddiad ar sut y codwyd proffil Cymru, fe gredaf, mewn naw gwlad. Canfuom wedyn fod yr uned berthnasol yn gwneud gwaith glew gyda staff o bedwar a chyllideb o lai na £500,000. Ar ôl talu cyflogau, ffioedd awyr a biliau gwestai a rhannu’r gweddill rhwng naw, efallai y codwyd y proffil, ond dim ond fymryn bach. Dyna oedd ein technoleg nanometrig.
We support the Conservatives’ amendment 2 that asks for more money to promote Wales as a tourist destination, but that is not enough. What can we do to make Wales distinctive? Among the 200 nations on the world’s stage, how do we get noticed? That was the aim of the ‘Branding Wales’ exercise initiated by Ron Davies. What is the present status of that exercise? I previously mentioned the potential conflict between the WDA’s land of high technology and the Wales Tourist Board’s land of myth and legend. However, there is a way out. The WDA’s promotion has an element of truth and its image would serve us best. However, it goes along with the image of the willing and skilled workforce, good training facilities, fine industrial sites, modern communications and government grants, and thus is part of the standard package of all the competition.
Cefnogwn welliant 2 y Ceidwadwyr sydd yn gofyn am fwy o arian i hyrwyddo Cymru fel lleoliad ar gyfer twristiaeth, ond nid yw hynny’n ddigon. Beth y gallwn ei wneud er mwyn sicrhau bod Cymru yn unigryw? Ymhlith y 200 o genhedloedd ar lwyfan y byd, sut y gallwn gael sylw? Dyna oedd nod yr ymarfer ‘Brandio Cymru’ a sbardunwyd gan Ron Davies. Beth yw statws presennol yr ymarfer hwnnw? Crybwyllais o’r blaen y gwrthdaro posibl rhwng gwlad o uwchdechnoleg y WDA a gwlad myth a chwedlau Bwrdd Croeso Cymru. Fodd bynnag, ceir ateb i’r broblem. Mae elfen o wirionedd yn ymgyrch hyrwyddo’r WDA a’i ddelwedd ef fyddai’n fwyaf buddiol inni. Fodd bynnag, mae’n cyd-fynd â’r ddelwedd o weithlu parod a medrus, cyfleusterau hyfforddi da, safleoedd diwydiannol gwych, dulliau cyfathrebu modern a grantiau gan y llywodraeth, ac felly mae’n rhan o becyn safonol yr holl gystadleuaeth.
Now for some good news. On May day in 1981, I remember standing on a pile of ice in the Arctic to photograph the May Day parade. Alongside me was a press photographer who asked me where I came from. When I answered, he responded: ‘that is the country that has declared itself non-nuclear.’
Ac yn awr, dyma’r newyddion da. Ar Ŵyl Fai yn 1981, cofiaf sefyll ar dwmpath o iâ yn yr Arctig i dynnu ffotograff o’r orymdaith Gŵyl Fai. Wrth fy ochr yr oedd ffotograffydd a ofynnodd imi o ble yr oeddwn yn dod. Pan atebais, dywedodd yntau: ‘dyna’r wlad sydd wedi datgan ei bod yn ddi-niwclear’.
I felt as proud as others might have felt had we won the World Cup. It was in another part of the Arctic that I saw a newspaper article containing a paragraph in Welsh. The article was in Norwegian on the survival of languages in the European Union that did not have official status. Therefore, there are aspects of Wales that are known. I am assured that, when the Pope attracted a congregation of 250,000 in India, a memorial service to Thomas Jones from Berriew attracted 300,000.
Teimlwn mor falch ag y byddai eraill wedi teimlo pe baem wedi ennill Cwpan y Byd. Mewn rhan arall o’r Arctig gwelais erthygl bapur newydd yn cynnwys paragraff yn y Gymraeg. Yr oedd yr erthygl mewn Norwyeg ar oroesiad ieithoedd yn yr Undeb Ewropeaidd nad oedd ganddynt statws swyddogol. Ceir, felly, agweddau ar Gymru sydd yn hysbys. Fe’m sicrheir, pan ddenodd y Pab gynulleidfa o 250,000 yn yr India, denodd gwasanaeth coffa Thomas Jones o Aberriw 300,000.
What, therefore, are the features of Wales that stand out in this tough competition for world recognition? The key image is one of survival and holding on to principles against tough odds. We have survived as a nation—our language has survived, we have preserved our beautiful countryside, and we are determined that our communities shall survive. In a world threatened by environmental catastrophe, the word for survival is ‘sustainability’. It seems glaringly obvious. Our best opportunity to promote Wales is as the pioneer of sustainable development. That is the most important aspect of making Wales GM-free. It has echoes of the 1981 declaration on a nuclear-free Wales. We have the opportunity to promote all forms of sustainable energy—wind, solar, biomass, tidal and wave power. We have the opportunity, but the Government is letting that opportunity slip away. We have the opportunity to use the new communications technologies, so many of which are well established in Wales, to restore the viability of small communities in rural areas. However, we are falling behind.
Felly, pa nodweddion o Gymru sydd yn flaenllaw yn y gystadleuaeth frwd hon am gydnabyddiaeth fyd-eang? Y ddelwedd allweddol yw goroesiad a dal gafael ar egwyddorion yn groes i’r disgwyl. Yr ydym wedi goroesi fel cenedl—mae ein hiaith wedi goroesi, yr ydym wedi cadw ein cefn gwlad hardd, ac yr ydym yn benderfynol y bydd ein cymunedau’n goroesi. Mewn byd a fygythir gan drychineb amgylcheddol, y gair ar gyfer goroesi yw ‘cynaliadwyedd’. Ymddengys yn hynod amlwg. Ein cyfle gorau i hyrwyddo Cymru yw fel arloeswr datblygu cynaliadwy. Dyna’r agwedd bwysicaf ar sicrhau bod Cymru yn rhydd o gnydau a addaswyd yn enetig. Mae’n ategu datganiad 1981 fod Cymru’n ddi-niwclear. Mae’r cyfle gennym i hyrwyddo pob math o ynni cynaliadwy—pŵer y gwynt, yr haul, bio-màs, y llanw a’r tonnau. Mae’r cyfle gennym, ond mae’r Llywodraeth yn gadael i’r cyfle hwnnw lithro o’n gafael. Mae’r cyfle gennym i ddefnyddio’r technolegau cyfathrebu newydd, y mae cynifer ohonynt wedi’u hen sefydlu yng Nghymru, er mwyn adfer ymarferoldeb cymunedau bach mewn ardaloedd gwledig. Fodd bynnag, yr ydym ar ei hôl hi.
We need a far more ambitious policy for waste recycling. The greatest threat to our image of sustainability is our appalling record on waste disposal. We also have a challenge to ensure the sustainability of our built heritage. However, we allow the one internationally famous building in Wales to be demolished. We have a building that was internationally famous. We are trying to promote our international image. What do the people who had heard of Brynmawr through the Dunlop Semtex building say now? Preserving it would have required resources, but those are the issues on which we must decide.
Mae angen polisi llawer mwy uchelgeisiol arnom ar gyfer ailgylchu gwastraff. Y bygythiad mwyaf i’n delwedd o gynaliadwyedd yw ein record warthus ar waredu gwastraff. Hefyd, mae gennym her o sicrhau cynaliadwyedd ein treftadaeth adeiledig. Fodd bynnag, yr ydym yn caniatáu i’r un adeilad yng Nghymru sydd yn adnabyddus yn rhyngwladol gael ei ddymchwel. Mae gennym adeilad a oedd yn enwog yn rhyngwladol. Yr ydym yn ceisio hyrwyddo ein delwedd ryngwladol. Beth a ddywed y bobl a glywodd am Frynmawr drwy adeilad Dunlop Semtex yn awr? Byddai ei gadw wedi gofyn am adnoddau, ond dyna’r materion y mae’n rhaid inni benderfynu arnynt.
The partnership Government has a unique opportunity to promote Wales internationally, as the exemplar of sustainable development. I will be honest. I am jealous that it is not a Plaid Cymru administration that has that opportunity, so do not let the opportunity slip away. You still have time to get it right, but if you do not manage to get action on these elements of sustainable development, I give you a stark warning—do not let the demolition of the Dunlop Semtex factory be the one decision that symbolises the present administration.
Mae gan y Llywodraeth bartneriaeth gyfle unigryw i hyrwyddo Cymru yn rhyngwladol, fel esiampl o ddatblygu cynaliadwy. Byddaf yn onest. Yr wyf yn genfigennus nad gweinyddiaeth Plaid Cymru sydd â’r cyfle hwnnw, felly peidiwch â gadael i’r cyfle hwn lithro o’ch gafael. Mae amser ar ôl o hyd gennych i gael pethau’n iawn, ond os na fyddwch yn llwyddo i gymryd camau ar yr elfennau hyn o ddatblygu cynaliadwy, rhoddaf rybudd llym ichi—peidiwch â gadael i’r penderfyniad i ddymchwel ffatri Dunlop Semtex fod yr un penderfyniad hwnnw sydd yn symbol o’r weinyddiaeth bresennol.
I propose the following amendments in the name of William Graham. Amendment 1: delete ‘Cabinet’s’ and insert ‘Liberal Democrat-Labour coalition’.
Cynigiaf y gwelliannau canlynol yn enw William Graham. Gwelliant 1: Dileu ‘y Cabinet’ ac ychwanegu ‘clymblaid y Democratiaid Rhyddfrydol-Llafur’.
I propose amendment 2. Add a new sentence:
Cynigiaf welliant 2. Ychwanegu brawddeg newydd:
I propose amendment 3. Add a new sentence:
Cynigiaf welliant 3. Ychwanegu brawddeg newydd:
I agree with the First Minister that this motion will attract widespread support in the Chamber. We support the sentiment behind the motion. We will support all the amendments, including those proposed by Plaid Cymru.
Cytunaf â Phrif Weinidog Cymru y bydd y cynnig hwn yn denu cefnogaeth eang yn y Siambr. Cefnogwn yr ymdeimlad sydd yn sail i’r cynnig. Cefnogwn bob un o’r gwelliannau, gan gynnwys y rheini a gynigiwyd gan Blaid Cymru.
On tourism, it is vital that we commit resources to it, particularly this year when there has been such a major crisis in much of rural Wales, which has affected tourism throughout Wales, including our capital city. It is important that we recognise that the Wales Tourist Board has much to do to promote Wales’s image overseas to ensure that our visitor numbers return to even their previous level. Amendment 2 is proposed in that spirit. We urge that the money be spent by the Wales Tourist Board. We are not urging more ministerial visits or more overseas summits. We fear that that advice would be taken seriously if we were to do so. We want the money to go to the sharp end, so that we build up Wales’s image overseas, and, yes, promote images of a modern Wales, a modern capital and, particularly this year, our Millennium Stadium.
O ran twristiaeth, mae’n hanfodol ein bod yn ymrwymo adnoddau ar ei gyfer, yn arbennig eleni pan fu argyfwng mor fawr yn y rhan fwyaf o Gymru wledig, a effeithiodd ar dwristiaeth ledled Cymru, gan gynnwys ein prifddinas. Mae’n bwysig ein bod yn cydnabod bod gan Fwrdd Croeso Cymru lawer i’w wneud i hyrwyddo delwedd Cymru dramor i sicrhau bod niferoedd ein hymwelwyr yn dychwelyd hyd yn oed i’w lefel flaenorol. Cynigir gwelliant 2 yn yr ysbryd hwnnw. Yr ydym yn annog i’r arian gael ei wario gan Fwrdd Croeso Cymru. Nid ydym yn annog mwy o ymweliadau gan weinidogion na mwy o gynadleddau tramor. Pryderwn y byddai’r cyngor hwnnw’n cael ei gymryd o ddifrif pe baem yn gwneud hynny. Yr ydym am weld yr arian yn mynd i’r rheng flaen, fel y gallwn ddatblygu delwedd Cymru dramor, ac, ie, hyrwyddo delweddau o Gymru fodern, o brifddinas fodern ac, yn arbennig eleni, ein Stadiwm y Mileniwm.
I have a feeling that, whatever the impact of the National Assembly, the image of Wales that went around the world when the FA Cup Final was held here will be an abiding memory for people throughout the world. We should build on that. There is a link between sport and tourism. The First Minister mentioned sport. I would not want to make a division between sport, or culture, and tourism, because they all interlink. The Ryder Cup bid is another aspect of ensuring that we build up our image overseas. Similarly, in terms of culture, Cardiff’s bid to become European Capital of Culture in 2008, the Cardiff Singer of the World contest, the National Eisteddfod, and so on, all contribute to our international image and to our tourism income.
Teimlaf, beth bynnag fo effaith y Cynulliad Cenedlaethol, y bydd y ddelwedd o Gymru a drosglwyddwyd i’r byd pan gynhaliwyd Cwpan yr FA yma yn atgof parhaus i bobl ledled y byd. Dylem adeiladu ar hynny. Mae cysylltiad rhwng chwaraeon a thwristiaeth. Crybwyllodd Prif Weinidog Cymru chwaraeon. Ni fyddwn yn dymuno gwneud rhaniad rhwng chwaraeon, na diwylliant, a thwristiaeth, am eu bod i gyd yn gysylltiedig â’i gilydd. Mae’r cais ar gyfer Cwpan Ryder yn agwedd arall ar sicrhau ein bod yn datblygu ein delwedd dramor. Yn yr un modd, o ran diwylliant, mae cais Caerdydd i fod yn Brifddinas Diwylliant Ewrop yn 2008, cystadleuaeth Canwr y Byd Caerdydd, yr Eisteddfod Genedlaethol ac ati, i gyd yn cyfrannu at ein delwedd ryngwladol ac at ein hincwm o dwristiaeth.
However, I would not want to give up on our traditional holidays. The First Minister seemed to suggest that the traditional seaside holiday was no longer important. It may be less important, but we still have a good coastline and marvellous resorts in Tenby, Aberystwyth, Llandudno and elsewhere. It is important that we do not forget that in building up the image of Wales overseas. Some of those towns are already successful conference centres, as the First Minister mentioned. We need to ensure that we capitalise on that. However, it is sad—and Phil Williams also made this point—that Wales remains a secret country. We need to build it up overseas. Whatever Phil’s efforts in the Arctic at the May day parade were—he began to lose me at that point; I had not realised that Bargoed was twinned with Ice Station Zebra—anything that we can do on such occasions to promote Wales is invaluable.
Fodd bynnag, ni fyddwn yn dymuno rhoi’r gorau i’n gwyliau traddodiadol. Ymddengys bod Prif Weinidog Cymru yn ceisio awgrymu nad oedd y gwyliau traddodiadol ar lan y môr yn bwysig bellach. Efallai ei fod yn llai pwysig, ond mae arfordir da gennym o hyd a chyrchfannau gwyliau gwych yn Ninbych-y-pysgod, Aberystwyth, Llandudno ac mewn mannau eraill. Mae’n bwysig nad anghofiwn hynny wrth ddatblygu’r ddelwedd o Gymru dramor. Mae rhai o’r trefi hynny eisoes yn ganolfannau cynadledda llwyddiannus, fel y crybwyllodd Prif Weinidog Cymru. Mae angen inni sicrhau ein bod yn manteisio ar hynny. Fodd bynnag, mae’n drist—a gwnaeth Phil Williams y pwynt hwn hefyd—fod Cymru’n parhau i fod yn wlad gudd. Mae angen inni adeiladu delwedd ohoni dramor. Beth bynnag fo ymdrechion Phil Williams yn yr Arctig ar yr orymdaith Gŵyl Fai—dechreuais ddrysu ar y pwynt hwnnw; ni sylweddolais fod Bargoed wedi gefeillio ag Ice Station Zebra—mae unrhyw beth y gallwn ei wneud ar achlysuron o’r fath i hyrwyddo Cymru yn werthfawr.
Rhodri Morgan The First Minister spoken in English p. 14
Rhodri Morgan Prif Weinidog Cymru siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 14
You have not seen Bargoed in the winter.
Nid ydych wedi gweld Bargoed yn y gaeaf.
I have. Our amendment 3 relates to the economy of Wales and inward investment, which is clearly vital. I take the point that we need to sell ourselves as a clever country and should not seek to be a low wage economy. That is out and I accept that, but there are other countries in the world where low regulation has also been a feature of attracting inward investment and where wages remain high, such as Singapore and Hong Kong. I hope that the light hand of regulation would mean that we are able both to maintain indigenous jobs and attract inward investment. It is important that we recognise that a major factor in raising Wales’s international profile is ensuring that people realise that it is still a place to invest and that there are fast-track procedures for setting up businesses. Regulation, although necessary, should be light and speedy. I accept what was said about needing to sell ourselves as a clever country. That is entirely right, but we need to ensure that we send out a truthful message about low regulation to attract inward investment, as well as to establish indigenous jobs. We will support this important motion and all the amendments.
Yr wyf wedi ei weld. Mae ein trydydd gwelliant yn ymwneud ag economi Cymru a mewnfuddsoddiad, sydd yn amlwg yn hanfodol. Derbyniaf y pwynt fod angen inni hyrwyddo ein hunain fel gwlad alluog a pheidio â cheisio bod yn wlad isel ei chostau. Nid yw hynny’n bosibl a derbyniaf hynny, ond ceir gwledydd eraill yn y byd lle mae prinder rheoleiddio hefyd wedi bod yn elfen wrth ddenu mewnfuddsoddiad a lle mae cyflogau’n parhau yn uchel, fel Singapore a Hong Kong. Gobeithiaf y byddai prinder rheoleiddio yn golygu y gallwn gynnal swyddi cynhenid a denu mewnfuddsoddiad. Mae’n bwysig inni gydnabod mai un o’r prif ffactorau wrth godi proffil rhyngwladol Cymru yw bod pobl yn sylweddoli ei fod yn dal yn lle i fuddsoddi ynddo a bod gweithdrefnau carlam yn eu lle ar gyfer sefydlu busnesau. Dylai rheoleiddio, er ei fod yn angenrheidiol, fod yn brin ac yn gyflym. Derbyniaf yr hyn a ddywedwyd ynglŷn â’r angen i hyrwyddo ein hunain fel gwlad alluog. Mae hynny’n hollol gywir, ond mae angen inni sicrhau ein bod yn anfon neges onest ynghylch prinder rheoleiddio i ddenu mewnfuddsoddiad, yn ogystal ag ar gyfer sefydlu swyddi cynhenid. Cefnogwn y cynnig pwysig hwn a’i holl welliannau.
Dafydd Elis-Thomas The Presiding Officer spoken in English p. 15
Dafydd Elis-Thomas Y Llywydd siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 15
Before I call on Mick Bates to speak, I note that all Members should now have a copy of the Minister for Finance, Local Government and Communities’ statement. I will allow a procedural motion to be proposed by the Minister for Assembly Business immediately after this debate so that we can take the statement then.
Cyn imi alw ar Mick Bates i siarad, nodaf y dylai fod gan bob Aelod gopi bellach o ddatganiad y Gweinidog dros Gyllid, Llywodraeth Leol a Chymunedau. Caniatâf i gynnig trefniadol gael ei gynnig gan y Trefnydd yn union ar ôl y ddadl hon fel y gallwn glywed y datganiad bryd hynny.
Wales is on the way up. With the introduction of the National Assembly, we can control our future to create a green, clean country. We are the first self-governing national body for 500 years. The Assembly will provide an increasing focus to raise the international profile and influence of Wales by building bridges to link our heritage with the future. All parties, all bodies and all people have a part to play in this. It will only be achieved through good partnerships and good communication. Raising the profile of Wales requires partnerships: in the Assembly for a stable, credible government, in the UK, and with territories and countries in the European Union. The establishment of this Assembly is a great achievement. It is pivotal in developing and building on the good work achieved in the past.
yn Saesneg Mae Cymru ar y trywydd cywir. Gyda chyflwyno’r Cynulliad Cenedlaethol, gallwn reoli ein dyfodol er mwyn creu gwlad werdd, lân. Ni yw’r corff hunan-lywodraethol cenedlaethol cyntaf ers 500 mlynedd. Bydd y Cynulliad yn darparu canolbwynt cynyddol ar gyfer codi proffil a dylanwad rhyngwladol Cymru drwy godi pontydd i gysylltu ein treftadaeth â’r dyfodol. Bydd gan bob plaid, bob corff a phob unigolyn ran i’w chwarae wrth wneud hynny. Yr unig ffordd o wireddu hynny yw drwy bartneriaethau da a chyfathrebu da. Er mwyn codi proffil Cymru mae angen partneriaethau: yn y Cynulliad ar gyfer llywodraeth gadarn a chredadwy, yn y DU, a chyda thiriogaethau a gwledydd yr Undeb Ewropeaidd. Mae sefydlu’r Cynulliad hwn yn llwyddiant arbennig. Mae’n ganolog ar gyfer datblygu ac adeiladu ar y gwaith da a wnaethpwyd yn y gorffennol.
Llwyddiant arall Cymru yw’r ymgais i hybu’r iaith Gymraeg. Ar ôl amser maith, mae’r iaith yn dod yn fwy poblogaidd, ac mae mwy o ysgolion Cymraeg. Mae’r ffaith fod ein hiaith yn dal yn fyw ar ôl bod dan orthrwm Llywodraeth Lloegr yn dangos penderfyniad i lwyddo.
in Welsh Another of Wales’ successes is the endeavour to promote the Welsh language. After many years, the language is becoming more popular, and there are more Welsh-medium schools. The fact that our language survives after suffering the oppression of the Government of England shows a determination to succeed.
Cardiff is a fast-growing capital. The magnificent Millennium Stadium has been built, there is regeneration in the Bay and an increasing awareness of the needs of mid and north Wales. Wales has produced many talented people of international renown in many areas, such as science, art, music, poetry, sport and politics. It is also famous for many international events. I wish to mention two of them. First, the Llangollen International Musical Eisteddfod, at which I sang in 1958, and, secondly, the Royal Welsh Agricultural Show, which is a focus for international agriculture and rural development. I am proud to be wearing its tie today.
yn Saesneg Mae Caerdydd yn brifddinas sydd yn tyfu’n gyflym. Codwyd Stadiwm y Mileniwm ysblennydd, mae adfywiad yn y Bae a chynnydd yn yr ymwybyddiaeth o anghenion canolbarth a gogledd Cymru. Mae Cymru wedi meithrin nifer o bobl ddawnus sydd yn enwog yn rhyngwladol mewn nifer o feysydd, megis gwyddoniaeth, celf, cerddoriaeth, barddoniaeth, chwaraeon a gwleidyddiaeth. Mae hefyd yn enwog am nifer o ddigwyddiadau rhyngwladol. Hoffwn grybwyll dau ohonynt. Yn gyntaf, Eisteddfod Gerddorol Gydwladol Llangollen, y cenais ynddi yn 1958, ac yn ail, Sioe Amaethyddol Frenhinol Cymru, sydd yn ffocws ar gyfer amaethyddiaeth ryngwladol a datblygu gwledig. Yr wyf yn falch o wisgo ei dei heddiw.
Our role is to act as a catalyst to build a world image based on excellence. It is true that Wales has had its problems since the Assembly’s establishment. The lack of legislative powers is a hindrance. However, I am pleased to say that the partnership agreement in Wales has delivered. It is helping to improve quality of life through, for example, the creation of the post of Children’s Commissioner for Wales, the freezing of prescription charges and the £60 million extra for European programmes. The WDA and other organisations are also developing a business birth rate strategy in the context of the overall entrepreneurial action plan, and Finance Wales has been set up to help fund and manage small and medium-sized businesses. A one-third baseline increased budget has been allocated to the Wales Tourist Board, which will be worth over £15 million in the next three years. The Assembly has also addressed the issue of transport, which is important in terms of tourism.
yn Saesneg Ein rôl yw gweithredu fel catalydd i lunio delwedd fyd-eang yn seiliedig ar ragoriaeth. Mae’n wir fod Cymru wedi profi problemau ers sefydlu’r Cynulliad. Mae’r prinder pwerau deddfwriaethol yn rhwystr. Fodd bynnag, yr wyf yn falch o ddweud bod y cytundeb partneriaeth yng Nghymru wedi cyflawni ei addewidion. Mae’n helpu i wella ansawdd bywyd drwy, er enghraifft, greu swydd Comisiynydd Plant Cymru, rhewi ffioedd presgripsiwn a’r £60 miliwn ychwanegol ar gyfer rhaglenni Ewropeaidd. Mae’r WDA a sefydliadau eraill hefyd yn datblygu strategaeth creu busnesau newydd yng nghyd-destun y cynllun gweithredu entrepreneuraidd cyffredinol, ac mae Cyllid Cymru wedi’i sefydlu er mwyn helpu i gyllido a rheoli busnesau bach a chanolig eu maint. Dyrannwyd cynnydd gwaelodlin o draean ar gyfer cyllideb Bwrdd Croeso Cymru, a fydd yn werth dros £15 miliwn dros y tair blynedd nesaf. Mae’r Cynulliad hefyd wedi mynd i’r afael â thrafnidiaeth, sydd yn bwysig o ran twristiaeth.
The profile of the arts in Wales has been raised considerably with the establishment of a Minister with responsibility for arts and culture. That will benefit Wales. Arts and culture has also been made more accessible to the public with the introduction of free entry to museums and we are currently fighting for a bigger and better project, namely the Wales Millennium Centre. We fully understand that culture attracts much investment to Wales. It is so important. Wales Arts International, a unique partnership between the Arts Council of Wales and the British Council Wales, needs to be strengthened. I welcome the additional £140,000 that has been given to the Welsh Language Board, specifically for community-based activity. However, there is no denying that in some areas we need to take more action.
yn Saesneg Mae proffil y celfyddydau yng Nghymru wedi cynyddu’n sylweddol drwy sefydlu Gweinidog â chyfrifoldeb dros y celfyddydau a diwylliant. Bydd hynny o fudd i Gymru. Sicrhawyd bod y celfyddydau a diwylliant yn fwy hygyrch i’r cyhoedd drwy gyflwyno mynediad am ddim i amgueddfeydd ac yr ydym ar hyn o bryd yn brwydro dros brosiect mwy a gwell, sef Canolfan Mileniwm Cymru. Yr ydym yn ymwybodol iawn fod diwylliant yn denu llawer o fuddsoddiad i Gymru. Mae hynny mor bwysig. Mae angen atgyfnerthu Celfyddydau Rhyngwladol Cymru, sydd yn bartneriaeth unigryw rhwng Cyngor Celfyddydau Cymru a Chyngor Prydeinig Cymru. Croesawaf y £140,000 ychwanegol a roddwyd i Fwrdd yr Iaith Gymraeg, yn arbennig ar gyfer ei weithgaredd yn y gymuned. Fodd bynnag, nid oes amheuaeth bod angen inni weithredu ymhellach mewn rhai meysydd.
In order to promote Wales within business, action between Assembly sponsored public bodies and the Assembly should be better co-ordinated. There should be general agreement when co-ordinating overseas business in relation to investment and international trade opportunities. It is important to improve the role of Wales and its relationship with other countries. That could be done through educating and briefing activities overseas. I suggest that better use needs to be made of Welsh societies and clubs overseas. I also suggest that we identify Welsh ambassadors to promote Wales.
yn Saesneg Er mwyn hyrwyddo Cymru ym myd busnes, mae angen cydlynu’r camau gweithredu rhwng y cyrff cyhoeddus a noddir gan y Cynulliad a’r Cynulliad ei hun yn fwy effeithiol. Dylid sefydlu cytundeb cyffredinol wrth gydlynu busnes dramor mewn perthynas â buddsoddiad a chyfleoedd masnachu rhyngwladol. Mae’n bwysig gwella rôl Cymru a’i pherthynas â gwledydd eraill. Gellid gwneud hynny drwy gyfrwng gweithgareddau addysgol a briffio dramor. Awgrymaf fod angen gwneud gwell defnydd o gymdeithasau a chlybiau Cymreig dramor. Awgrymaf hefyd ein bod yn dynodi llysgenhadon Cymreig i hyrwyddo Cymru.
Another positive way of increasing Wales’s profile would be to build up a database of Welsh activities, interests and influence. Nelson Mandela and Bill Clinton visited Wales. We should build on those visits and advertise those events. We should also build on sustainable development, an important aspect that was mentioned earlier. We need a unique selling point and in that we have it. Wales should become a world leader in renewable energy and waste recycling targets. It should be a world leader by becoming GM-free in its attempt to promote one of its best assets, namely its food. That promotion requires our own logo. We have the dragon, but we need something else—perhaps a philosophy by which to live.
yn Saesneg Ffordd gadarnhaol arall o godi proffil Cymru fyddai sefydlu cronfa ddata o weithgareddau, diddordebau a dylanwad Cymreig. Ymwelodd Nelson Mandela a Bill Clinton â Chymru. Dylem adeiladu ar yr ymweliadau hynny a hysbysebu’r digwyddiadau hynny. Dylem hefyd adeiladu ar ddatblygu cynaliadwy, sydd yn elfen bwysig a grybwyllwyd yn gynharach. Mae angen elfen unigryw y gallwn ei gwerthu arnom a datblygu cynaliadwy yw’r elfen honno. Dylai Cymru arwain y byd o ran targedau ynni adnewyddadwy ac ailgylchu gwastraff. Dylai arwain y byd drwy fod yn rhydd o addasu genetig yn ei hymgais i hyrwyddo un o’i hasedau gorau, sef ei bwyd. Mae angen ein logo ein hunain arnom ar gyfer yr hyrwyddiad hwnnw. Mae’r ddraig goch gennym, ond mae angen rhywbeth arall arnom—athroniaeth o bosibl y dylem ei dilyn drwy ein hoes.
We need to promote Wales as having a highly skilled workforce that produces excellent products for export. Partnership will promote Wales in the world. As a nation, the culture and image will continue to inspire people as it did me, when as an 11-year-old from Leicestershire, I sang at the Llangollen International Musical Eisteddfod. We can build on prosperity through this Assembly, because the basic product is enduring and one of quality. The Assembly must give the lead and, as stated in The Mabinogion, ‘A fo ben, bid bont’—to be a leader, you must be a bridge.
yn Saesneg Mae angen inni hyrwyddo Cymru fel gwlad â gweithlu medrus iawn sydd yn cynhyrchu cynnyrch ardderchog i’w hallforio. Bydd partneriaeth yn hyrwyddo Cymru yn y byd. Fel cenedl, bydd diwylliant a delwedd yn parhau i ysbrydoli pobl fel y’m hysbrydolwyd i, pan genais yn Eisteddfod Gerddorol Gydwladol Llangollen, yn blentyn 11 oed o Swydd Gaerlŷr. Gallwn adeiladu ar ffyniant drwy gyfrwng y Cynulliad hwn, oherwydd mae’r cynnych sylfaenol yn fythol ac o ansawdd. Rhaid i’r Cynulliad gynnig arweiniad ac, fel y nodwyd yn Y Mabinogi, ‘A fo ben, bid bont’.
We do not need Mike German after that. [Laughter.]
Nid oes angen Mike German arnom ar ôl hynny. [Chwerthin.]
Dafydd Elis-Thomas The Presiding Officer spoken in English p. 18
Dafydd Elis-Thomas Y Llywydd siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 18
Order. For some reason, Assembly Members are excitable this morning.
Trefn. Am ryw reswm, mae Aelodau’r Cynulliad yn hawdd eu cynhyrfu y bore yma.
Cydymdeimlaf ac uniaethaf â’r Prif Weinidog am ei fod yn hwyr ar gyfer y Cyfarfod Llawn y bore yma, gan i hynny ddigwydd imi fis yn ôl. Nid yw’n fwriad gennyf sgorio pwyntiau gwleidyddol yn erbyn y Prif Weinidog am hynny, fel y gwnaeth y pleidiau eraill yn fy erbyn mewn sbri cyn-etholiadol. Uniaethaf â’ch profiad y bore yma.
I sympathise and empathise with the First Minister’s being late for Plenary this morning, as that happened to me a month ago. I do not intend to score political points against the First Minister because of that, as the other parties did against me in a pre-election spree. I empathise with your experience this morning.
Y mae’n bwysig bod Cymru yn cymryd ei lle ar y llwyfan byd-eang gyda hyder a bwrlwm. Croesawaf ymdrechion cychwynnol y Cabinet, a rhai’r Prif Weinidog, i arwain ar y mater. Mae croeso i Gymru ar y llwyfan rhyngwladol. Profais rywfaint o’r croeso hwnnw pan siaradais ar ran y Cynulliad Cenedlaethol mewn derbyniad a drefnwyd gan Ganolfan Ewropeaidd Cymru, i aelodau Pwyllgor y Rhanbarthau yr Undeb Ewropeaidd. Croesawodd rhanbarthau ac aelod-wladwriaethau eraill Ewrop fod Cymru a’r Cynulliad yn datblygu rôl rhyngwladol o’r diwedd. Yr ydym ymhell ar ôl y Gwyddelod, yr Albanwyr a’r Saeson. Fel man cychwyn rhaid inni gynyddu ein dylanwad a’n presenoldeb yn yr Undeb Ewropeaidd. Yr oeddwn yn falch o glywed yn ddiweddar fod cynnydd yn nifer y secondiadau o’r Cynulliad i Frwsel ac i gyrff gwahanol yr Undeb Ewropeaidd.
It is important that Wales takes its place on the international stage confidently and with vitality. I welcome the Cabinet’s initial efforts, and those of the First Minister, to lead on the matter. Wales is welcome on the international stage. I experienced some of that welcome when I spoke on behalf of the National Assembly at a reception organised by the Wales European Centre, for members of the European Union’s Committee of the Regions. The other regions and member states of Europe welcome that Wales and the Assembly was developing an international role at last. We are lagging far behind the Irish, Scots and English. As a starting point we must increase our influence and presence in the European Union. I was pleased to hear recently that there has been an increase in the number of secondments from the Assembly to Brussels and to various organisations of the European Union.
Rhaid inni wella ein cysylltiadau â’r Cymry sydd wedi gadael y wlad, y rhai o’r genhedlaeth hon a chenedlaethau cynt. Rhaid eu darbwyllo o’r cyfleoedd sydd ar gael yng Nghymru i fuddsoddi ac i ddychwelyd yma. Cymeradwyaf gynllun y WDA yn y canolbarth, Llwybro-Routes. Bas-data ydyw o’r bobl sydd wedi gadael y canolbarth. Mae’n creu cysylltiad rhwng y canolbarth, y WDA a’r bobl sydd wedi gadael er mwyn ceisio’u darbwyllo i ddychwelyd ac i fuddsoddi yn y canolbarth.
We must improve our links with the Welsh people who have left the country, both from this generation and previous ones. We must persuade them of the opportunities available in Wales to invest and to return here. I commend the WDA scheme, Llwybro-Routes in mid-Wales. It is a database of people who have left mid Wales. It creates a link between mid Wales, the WDA and the people who have left there in order to try to persuade them to return and to invest in mid Wales.
Dylem hefyd geisio darbwyllo eraill i ymweld â’u mamwlad ar wyliau, fel rhan o’n hymdrech i gynyddu twristiaeth.
We should also try to persuade others to visit their home country on holiday, as part of our effort to increase tourism.
Rhydd y we gyfle o’r newydd i gadw cysylltiad a hyrwyddo Cymru ar y llwyfan byd-eang. Fodd bynnag, bydd chwarae’r rôl hwnnw’n mynnu ein bod yn holi cwestiynau caled ac yn beirniadu. Mae lle inni feirniadu hunanoldeb George Bush, yn enwedig gyda’n hymrwymiad ni i ddatblygiad cynaliadwy, am iddo dynnu’n ôl ar ymrwymiad yr Unol Daleithiau i Brotocol Kyoto. Dyna weithred a fydd yn effeithio ar hinsawdd y byd ac ar hinsawdd ein gwlad hefyd. Dylem fel Cynulliad Cenedlaethol leisio beirniadaeth glir a digyfaddawd, fel y dylai Prif Weinidog Cymru, yn erbyn hunanoldeb George Bush ar y mater hwn.
The web gives us a new opportunity to keep in touch and to promote Wales on the world-wide stage. However, playing that role will require us to ask difficult questions and to criticise. There is room for us to criticise George Bush’s selfishness, particularly given our commitment to sustainable development, in withdrawning the United States’ commitment to the Kyoto Protocol. That act will affect the global climate and our country’s climate also. We, as the National Assembly, should voice clear, uncompromising criticism, as should the First Minister, of George Bush’s selfishness on this matter.
Mae gan Gymru a Chymreictod rôl i’w chwarae yn nyfodol y byd. Nid yw ein Cymreictod yn unffurf. Yn hytrach, y mae yn barasol o ddiwylliannau a diddordebau. Nid yw ac ni ddylai fod yn unffurf. Ni ddylai’r byd yr ydym yn rhan ohono fod yn unffurf ychwaith. Dylem, ar bob cyfrif, ymwrthod â’r unffurfiaeth Anglo-Americanaidd yn bennaf, y mae’r corfforaethau byd-eang yn ceisio’i gwthio arnom. Efallai y byddai unffurfiaeth, unieithrwydd ac undonedd yn dda i faint elw y corfforaethau hynny, ond byddai’r byd hwn a Chymru yn dlotach.
Wales and Welshness has a role to play in the future of the world. Our Welshness is not uniform. Rather, it is a parasol of cultures and interests. It is not and should not be uniform. The world of which we are a part should not be uniform either. We should, at all costs, reject the mainly Anglo-American uniformity that the global corporations are trying to impose upon us. Uniformity, monolingualism and monotony might boost those corporations’ profits, but this world and Wales would be poorer because of it.
Y mae’n bryd inni ailennill hyder yn ein Cymreictod ac yn ein hawl fel gwlad ac fel pobl, i gael llais yn nyfodol y byd.
It is time that we regained confidence in our Welshness and in our right as a nation and as a people, to have a voice in the future of the world.
Dafydd Elis-Thomas The Presiding Officer spoken in English p. 20
Dafydd Elis-Thomas Y Llywydd siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 20
I call Glyn Davies to speak. If you are a little startled at being called so early, it is because I do not have notification of speakers on behalf of the Government, in this debate.
Galwaf ar Glyn Davies i siarad. Os ydych wedi eich synnu o gael eich galw mor gynnar, y rheswm dros hynny yw na chefais fy hysbysu am siaradwyr ar ran y Llywodraeth, yn y ddadl hon.
Diolch, Llywydd, even if I was startled.
Diolch, Lywydd, hyd yn oed os cefais fy synnu.
I am grateful to be called because I come from the same village as the late, great Thomas Jones to whom Phil Williams referred earlier—
Yr wyf yn ddiolchgar am gael fy ngalw gan fy mod yn hanu o’r un pentref â’r diweddar Thomas Jones enwog y cyfeiriodd Phil Williams ato yn gynharach—
There will not be as many at your funeral though.
Ond ni ddaw cymaint i’ch angladd chi.
Dafydd Elis-Thomas The Presiding Officer spoken in English p. 20
Dafydd Elis-Thomas Y Llywydd siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 20
Order. Can we get away from this habit of making interjections from the floor? It is not helpful. There is always the risk that the sub-editors of the Record of Proceedings might feel obliged to start recording them—I do not believe that they should. As you know, speakers are called to speak when they press the button and the red light comes on. Prior to that, no one should make statements or injections. I hate to spoil the fun, but that is our order here. There is a specific reason for it: to prevent abuse, particularly in a bilingual assembly, through Members making remarks about someone in another language, which would not be translated.
Trefn. A allwn roi’r gorau i’r arfer hwn o wneud ebychiadau o’r llawr? Nid yw’n ddefnyddiol. Mae perygl y bydd is-olygyddion Cofnod y Trafodion yn teimlo rheidrwydd i ddechrau eu cofnodi—ni chredaf y dylent. Fel y gwyddoch, gelwir ar siaradwyr i siarad pan bwysant y botwm a phan fydd y golau coch ynghyn. Cyn hynny, ni ddylai unrhyw un wneud datganiadau neu ebychiadau. Nid wyf am ddifetha’r hwyl, ond dyna yw ein trefn yma. Mae rheswm penodol dros hynny: atal sarhad, yn arbennig mewn cynulliad dwyieithog, gydag Aelodau’n gwneud sylwadau am rywun mewn iaith arall, na fyddent yn cael eu cyfieithu.
I take the point, Llywydd, I was just trying to give him more time for his speech.
Derbyniaf y pwynt, Lywydd, yr oeddwn yn ceisio rhoi mwy o amser iddo ar gyfer ei araith.
Dafydd Elis-Thomas The Presiding Officer spoken in English p. 20
Dafydd Elis-Thomas Y Llywydd siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 20
I understand that your intentions were honourable, as always.
Deallaf mai anrhydeddus oedd eich bwriad, fel arfer.
In the context of this debate, I think of the world in terms of those parts of the world with which we are less familiar. I do not necessarily think of Europe—although of course our relationship with Europe is extremely important—because Europe is becoming increasingly familiar to us. The number of occasions on which Assembly Members can travel to Europe is increasing. I am pleased that that is likely to continue. The Agriculture and Rural Development Committee was in Brussels on Monday. We familiarised ourselves with the minutiae of agricultural policy. We also learned a little about what you might term the lifestyle of Brussels while we were there. I have some sympathy with the First Minister, who arrived late for the Plenary meeting this morning, because it is traditional in Brussels for visitors from Britain to find 9 a.m. meetings difficult—the Agriculture and Rural Development Committee found it a little difficult this week.
Yng nghyd-destun y ddadl hon, ystyriaf y byd yn nhermau’r rhannau hynny o’r byd nad ydym mor gyfarwydd â hwy. Nid ystyriaf Ewrop o reidrwydd—er bod ein perthynas ag Ewrop yn bwysig iawn wrth gwrs—gan fod Ewrop yn dod yn gynyddol gyfarwydd inni. Mae nifer yr achlysuron y gall Aelodau’r Cynulliad deithio i Ewrop yn cynyddu. Yr wyf yn falch fod hynny yn debygol o barhau. Yr oedd y Pwyllgor Amaethyddiaeth a Datblygu Gwledig ym Mrwsel ddydd Llun. Ymgyfarwyddasom â manylion polisi amaethyddol. Dysgasom rywfaint hefyd am yr hyn y gellid ei alw yn ffordd o fyw Brwsel tra yr oeddem yno. Y mae gennyf beth cydymdeimlad gyda Phrif Weinidog Cymru, a gyrhaeddodd yn hwyr i’r Cyfarfod Llawn y bore yma gan ei bod yn draddodiad ym Mrwsel i ymwelwyr o Brydain ei chael hi’n anodd cyrraedd cyfarfodydd am 9 a.m.—bu braidd yn anodd i’r Pwyllgor Amaethyddiaeth a Datblygu Gwledig yr wythnos hon.
I do not refer to the view of the world held by many: that from sun-soaked beaches on the Mediterranean. None of us learn much lying naked or semi-naked beneath a parasol on a Mediterranean beach.
Ni chyfeiriaf at y ddelwedd o’r byd sydd gan lawer o bobl: sef traethau heulog Môr y Canoldir. Nid oes yr un ohonom yn dysgu llawer drwy orwedd yn noeth neu’n hanner noeth o dan barasol ar un o draethau Môr y Canoldir.
During the devolution referendum, I was heavily involved in Montgomeryshire in the debate. I took a somewhat different stance from most of the Conservative Party. I did not campaign in any way for a national assembly. However, I acknowledged potential benefits in the creation of an assembly. I booked several village halls and organised local meetings entitled, ‘A National Assembly: Yes or No?’. I tried to present the plus and minus arguments. The plus to which I referred most often was the potential for an assembly to promote Wales internationally.
Yn ystod y refferendwm datganoli, cymerais ran fawr yn y ddadl yn Sir Drefaldwyn. Yr oedd fy safbwynt rywfaint yn wahanol i safbwynt y rhan fwyaf o’r Blaid Geidwadol. Nid ymgyrchais mewn unrhyw ffordd dros gynulliad cenedlaethol. Fodd bynnag, cydnabûm fuddiannau posibl creu cynulliad. Archebais le mewn sawl neuadd bentref a threfnais gyfarfodydd lleol yn dwyn y teitl, ‘Cynulliad Cenedlaethol: Ie neu Na?’ Ceisiais gyflwyno’r dadleuon o blaid ac yn erbyn. Y ddadl o blaid y cyfeiriais ati amlaf oedd y potensial fyddai gan gynulliad i hyrwyddo Cymru yn rhyngwladol.
I have been involved in promoting Wales internationally—
Bûm yn gysylltiedig â hyrwyddo Cymru yn rhyngwladol—
You will recall that the First Minister said how much the National Assembly had benefited Wales. He also mentioned that we should undertake the same exercise as Ireland and New Zealand have. Would it not be much more helpful if Wales were to have legislative powers and, even more so, if we were to have full self-government; that is, full national status within the European Union? Surely that would be the single greatest move we could make to increase the status of Wales throughout the world: to be recognised as a full nation?
Cofiwch i Brif Weinidog Cymru ddweud cymaint y mae Cymru wedi elwa yn sgîl y Cynulliad Cenedlaethol. Soniodd hefyd y dylem gynnal yr un ymarfer ag Iwerddon a Seland Newydd. Oni fyddai’n llawer mwy defnyddiol pe câi Cymru bwerau deddfwriaethol ac, yn fwy byth, pe cawsem hunan-lywodraeth lawn; hynny yw, statws cenedlaethol llawn o fewn yr Undeb Ewropeaidd? Onid hynny fyddai’r cam mwyaf y gallem ei gymryd i gynyddu statws Cymru ledled y byd: i gael ein cydnabod fel cenedl lawn?
Such contributions polarise opinion and make it far more difficult for the National Assembly to develop. You harm the cause that you purport to support.
Mae cyfraniadau o’r fath yn polareiddio’r farn ac yn ei gwneud yn llawer anos i’r Cynulliad Cenedlaethol ddatblygu. Yr ydych yn niweidio’r achos yr ydych yn honni ei gefnogi.
The Assembly’s potential to develop Wales on the international stage has yet to be fulfilled. I criticise the Government, both at Westminster and here, on that account. The Government at Westminster has not accepted the logic of the process that it has put in place. It created a National Assembly, but through being grudging and nit-picking it is damaging the government of Britain. I believe that its Members have a negative attitude towards devolution, though others will disagree. The Assembly’s Cabinet is not sufficiently ambitious or inventive about projecting the Assembly on to the international stage, nor about acting within Britain. I am sure that we will all agree on that point. I expressed that view because it is important and many people within and outside the Assembly share it. It is right that I should do so.
Nid ydym wedi cyflawni potensial y Cynulliad i ddatblygu Cymru yn rhyngwladol eto. Beirniadaf y Llywodraeth, yn San Steffan ac yma, yn hynny o beth. Nid yw’r Llywodraeth yn San Steffan wedi derbyn rhesymeg y broses a sefydlwyd ganddi. Creodd Gynulliad Cenedlaethol, ond drwy fod yn grintachlyd a hollti blew mae’n niweidio llywodraeth Prydain. Credaf fod gan ei Haelodau agwedd negyddol tuag at ddatganoli, er y bydd eraill yn anghytuno. Nid yw Cabinet y Cynulliad yn ddigon uchelgeisiol na dyfeisgar o ran cyflwyno’r Cynulliad yn rhyngwladol, nac o ran gweithredu o fewn Prydain. Yr wyf yn siŵr y byddwn oll yn cytuno ar hynny. Mynegais y farn honno gan ei bod yn bwysig a chan fod llawer o bobl o fewn y Cynulliad a’r tu allan iddo o’r un farn. Mae’n briodol i mi wneud hynny.
Most of my experience of the world, through previous jobs, has been related to promoting tourism and economic development. I have encountered the sort of images of Wales in the world to which the First Minister referred earlier. People have spoken to me about Wales as if it is an insignificant part of England. That developed my own thinking. I have concerns about both tourism and economic development, but about tourism in particular because Wales’s image on the world stage has been badly damaged by the foot and mouth disease crisis. People do not differentiate between foot and mouth disease and other public health diseases. There is definitely a case, in the next year or so, for us increasing our commitment to promoting Wales on the world stage. I support the amendments before us today.
Bu’r rhan fwyaf o’m profiad o’r byd, drwy swyddi blaenorol, yn gysylltiedig â hyrwyddo twristiaeth a datblygu economaidd. Deuthum ar draws y math o ddelweddau o Gymru yn y byd y cyfeiriodd Prif Weinidog Cymru atynt yn gynharach. Mae pobl wedi sôn wrthyf am Gymru fel petai’n rhan ddibwys o Loegr. Datblygodd hynny fy ffordd o feddwl. Yr wyf yn pryderu am dwristiaeth a datblygu economaidd, ond am dwristiaeth yn arbennig gan fod delwedd Cymru yn y byd wedi’i niweidio’n ddifrifol gan argyfwng clwy’r traed a’r genau. Nid yw pobl yn gwahaniaethu rhwng clwy’r traed a’r genau ac afiechydon iechyd cyhoeddus eraill. Yn bendant, yn ystod y flwyddyn neu ddwy nesaf, dylem gynyddu ein hymrwymiad i hyrwyddo Cymru yn y byd. Cefnogaf y gwelliannau sydd ger ein bron heddiw.
Promoting Wales on the world stage is also important for inward investment. Throughout the 1980s we rightly saw a great focus on inward investment, taking advantage of growth and a great deal of flexibility on the world level. It was also right in the 1990s to focus more on indigenous development in Wales. However, we must never allow that to stop us recognising that things change. In five years’ time there may be another chance to tackle the world stage. Inward investment is crucial and will continue to be so. The sons and daughters of Wales have a tradition of travelling to every part of the world. I have uncles and aunts who have gone to every part of the world. My cousins, Gwyneth and Barry, have gone to New Zealand and Australia. I could list dozens of such relatives. I may have a family relationship to the Thomas Jones to whom Phil referred. I am not sure but I will find out. I want that understanding engagement in Wales to the rest of the world to continue.
Mae hyrwyddo Cymru yn y byd hefyd yn bwysig o ran mewnfuddsoddi. Drwy’r 1980au gwelsom ffocws mawr ar fewnfuddsoddi, a hynny’n briodol, gan fanteisio ar dwf a hyblygrwydd sylweddol ar lefel y byd. Yr oedd hefyd yn briodol yn y 1990au i ganolbwyntio’n fwy ar ddatblygiad cynhenid yng Nghymru. Fodd bynnag, ni ddylid byth caniatáu i hynny ein hatal rhag cydnabod bod pethau’n newid. Ymhen pum mlynedd mae’n bosibl y bydd cyfle arall i fynd i’r afael â’r byd. Mae mewnfuddsoddi yn hanfodol a bydd yn parhau felly. Mae’n draddodiadol i feibion a merched Cymru deithio i bob cwr o’r byd. Mae gennyf ewythrod a modrybedd sydd wedi mynd i bob cwr o’r byd. Aeth fy nghefndryd, Gwyneth a Barry, i Seland Newydd ac Awstralia. Gallwn restru dwsinau o berthnasau tebyg. Mae’n bosibl fy mod yn perthyn i’r Thomas Jones y soniodd Phil amdano. Nid wyf yn siŵr ond ymchwiliaf i hynny. Hoffwn i’r cysylltiad amlwg hwnnw rhwng Cymru a gweddill y byd barhau.
Dafydd Elis-Thomas Y Llywydd siaradwyd yn Gymraeg t. 23
Dafydd Elis-Thomas The Presiding Officer spoken in Welsh p. 23
Yn absenoldeb siaradwyr sydd yn cefnogi’r Llywodraeth, galwaf ar Alun Cairns.
In the absence of speakers supporting the Government, I call upon Alun Cairns.
I had assumed that there would be a Plaid Cymru spokesman—
Tybiais y byddai gan Blaid Cymru lefarydd—
Dafydd Elis-Thomas The Presiding Officer spoken in English p. 23
Dafydd Elis-Thomas Y Llywydd siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 23
Order. I have called two Plaid Cymru spokespeople.
Trefn. Yr wyf wedi galw ar ddau o lefarwyr Plaid Cymru.
That is fine.
Mae hynny’n iawn.
Dafydd Elis-Thomas The Presiding Officer spoken in English p. 23
Dafydd Elis-Thomas Y Llywydd siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 23
Order. If you do not want to speak, that is fine by me.
Trefn. Os nad ydych am siarad, mae hynny’n iawn o’m rhan i.
I am happy to respond on behalf of the Welsh Conservative Party. The business community often says that we are operating in a global environment, and this debate on Wales and the world gives us the opportunity to highlight the realities of such an environment, and what the Assembly could do to differentiate in this respect. The reality of the global environment is that multinational organisations will move their operations to those areas that offer the most advantageous conditions. It does not necessarily mean low wages, but part of it undoubtedly will be low operating costs. Much will relate to property and planning policy, to the red tape and the regulations that are either repealed or introduced by the governments of the day, either at the Assembly, UK or European level. Other factors are the infrastructure that we offer, the communication facilities and the taxes across the United Kingdom, but also taxes in relation to business rates at a more local level for which the Assembly has a massive responsibility. Skills, culture, the environment, quality of life and many other factors influence the decision-making of multinational organisations looking for a location in which to set up their operations. Not all those issues are the sole responsibility of the Assembly, but how we react and how our policy is developed in response to the global market will influence the decision-making process of multinationals. In this global environment, we need to be able to differentiate in ways that other parts of Europe and the United Kingdom do not, and set down our marker. The genetically-modified crops issue is an example. We wanted a clean, green GM-free Wales. That would have been a significant differentiation in attracting tourism and would have demonstrated the quality of life and the high standards that we are pursuing in Wales.
Yr wyf yn fwy na pharod i ymateb ar ran Plaid Geidwadol Cymru. Dywed y gymuned fusnes yn aml ein bod yn gweithredu mewn amgylchedd byd-eang, a rhydd y ddadl hon ar Gymru a’r byd gyfle inni amlygu realiti amgylchedd o’r fath, a’r hyn y gallai’r Cynulliad ei wneud i fod yn wahanol yn hyn o beth. Realiti yr amgylchedd byd-eang yw y bydd sefydliadau rhyngwladol yn symud eu gweithrediadau i’r ardaloedd hynny sydd yn cynnig yr amodau mwyaf ffafriol. Nid yw o reidrwydd yn golygu cyflogau isel, ond yn ddiau bydd costau gweithredu isel yn rhan ohono. Bydd llawer yn gysylltiedig ag eiddo a pholisi cynllunio, y fiwrocratiaeth a’r rheoliadau a gaiff naill ai eu diddymu neu eu cyflwyno gan lywodraethau’r dydd, naill ai ar lefel y Cynulliad, y DU neu ar lefel Ewropeaidd. Ymhlith y ffactorau eraill mae’r seilwaith a gynigiwn, y cyfleusterau cyfathrebu a’r trethi ledled y Deyrnas Unedig, ond hefyd y trethi mewn perthynas â threthi busnes ar lefel fwy lleol lle mae gan y Cynulliad gyfrifoldeb enfawr drosto. Mae sgiliau, diwylliant, yr amgylchedd, ansawdd bywyd a llawer o ffactorau eraill yn dylanwadu ar benderfyniadau sefydliadau rhyngwladol sydd yn chwilio am leoliad i sefydlu eu gweithfeydd. Nid cyfrifoldeb y Cynulliad yn unig yw’r holl faterion hynny, ond bydd y ffordd yr ymatebwn a sut y datblygir ein polisi mewn ymateb i’r farchnad fyd-eang yn dylanwadu ar broses gwneud penderfyniadau cwmnïau rhyngwladol. Yn yr amgylchedd byd-eang hwn, mae angen inni allu bod yn wahanol mewn ffyrdd sydd yn wahanol i rannau eraill o Ewrop a’r Deyrnas Unedig, a gosod ein nod. Mae cnydau a addaswyd yn enetig yn enghraifft. Yr oeddem am sicrhau Cymru lân, werdd yn rhydd o unrhyw addasu genetig. Byddai hynny wedi creu gwahaniaiad sylweddol wrth ddenu twristiaeth a byddai wedi dangos ansawdd bywyd a’r safonau uchel yr ydym yn anelu atynt yng Nghymru.
Business-friendly policies are also important in attracting such inward investors, for whom a warm welcome is needed. We built an excellent reputation throughout the 1980s in attracting a great deal of investment. Wales only has 5 per cent of the population of the United Kingdom but we attracted 25 per cent of the United Kingdom’s inward investment. That is a strong platform on which to base our policies and build foundations. Incidentally, an interesting fact emerged from yesterday’s meeting with the Welsh Development Agency to which Phil Williams referred. Sony has had a base at Pencoed outside Bridgend for more than 25 years, but when will that be considered to be Welsh? We need to discuss and analyse that issue as we welcome such organisations.
Mae polisïau sydd yn ystyriol o fusnesau hefyd yn bwysig wrth ddenu mewnfuddsoddwyr o’r fath, ar ba rai y mae angen croeso cynnes. Datblygasom enw eithriadol o dda drwy gydol yr 1980au wrth ddenu llawer o fuddsoddiad. Dim ond 5 y cant o boblogaeth y Deyrnas Unedig sydd yn byw yng Nghymru ond llwyddasom i ddenu 25 y cant o fewnfuddsoddiad y Deyrnas Unedig. Mae hynny’n llwyfan cadarn i seilio ein polisïau ac i adeiladu sylfeini arno. Gyda llaw, daeth ffaith ddiddorol i’r amlwg o gyfarfod ddoe gydag Awdurdod Datblygu Cymru, y cyfeiriodd Phil Williams ato. Bu canolfan gan Sony ym Mhencoed y tu allan i Ben-y-bont ar Ogwr ers dros 25 mlynedd, ond pa bryd yr ystyrir hynny’n Gymreig? Mae angen inni drafod a dadansoddi’r mater hwnnw wrth inni groesawu sefydliadau o’r fath.
There is little point to the differentiation that I mentioned, unless it is communicated to the rest of the world and appreciated by it. We welcome the branding of Wales initiative that the First Minister is pursuing, but regret that the implementation of such a policy was delayed. To make a specific point, the press and media coverage of the Assembly in Wales is effective. However, coverage of the Assembly in the rest of the United Kingdom is lacking to say the least, let alone the coverage in the European press and in business journals distributed around the world. I ask the Minister to respond to that point because the coverage given to Wales and the Assembly is critical if we are to highlight that we are different, and how we seek to develop.
Nid oes llawer o bwynt inni fod yn wahanol, oni chaiff ei gyfleu i weddill y byd a’i werthfawrogi ganddo. Croesawn y fenter brandio Cymru y mae Prif Weinidog Cymru yn ei chanlyn, ond gresynwn at yr oedi a fu wrth weithredu polisi o’r fath. Â gwneud pwynt penodol, mae’r sylw a roddir i’r Cynulliad gan y wasg a’r cyfryngau yng Nghymru yn effeithiol. Fodd bynnag, nid yw’r sylw a roddir i’r Cynulliad yng ngweddill y Deyrnas Unedig yn ddigonol a dweud y lleiaf, heb sôn am y sylw yn y wasg Ewropeaidd ac mewn cyfnodolion busnes a ddosberthir ledled y byd. Gofynnaf i’r Gweinidog ymateb i’r pwynt hwnnw gan fod y sylw a roddir i Gymru a’r Cynulliad yn hanfodol os ydym am amlygu’r ffaith ein bod yn wahanol, a sut y bwriadwn ddatblygu.
‘Wales and the World’ relates to many policy areas. Members have mentioned how footage of the Millennium Stadium broadcast across the world brings credit to Wales. Sport, in itself, also attracts publicity when Welsh national teams play rugby, soccer or other games across the world. However, in order to build on that publicity, we must ensure differentiation. If we differentiate and follow the right policies, we can make Wales an ideal destination for inward investment and for tourists.
Mae ‘Cymru a’r Byd’ yn ymwneud â sawl maes polisi. Mae’r Aelodau wedi sôn am y ffaith bod darllediadau o Stadiwm y Mileniwm a ddarlledir ledled y byd yn glod i Gymru. Mae chwaraeon, ynddo’i hun, hefyd yn denu cyhoeddusrwydd pan fydd timau cenedlaethol Cymru yn chwarae rygbi, pêl-droed neu gemau eraill ledled y byd. Fodd bynnag, er mwyn datblygu’r cyhoeddusrwydd hwnnw, rhaid inni sicrhau ein bod yn wahanol. O fod yn wahanol a dilyn y polisïau cywir, gallwn sicrhau bod Cymru yn gyrchfan ddelfrydol ar gyfer mewnfuddsoddi ac i dwristiaid.
Yr wythnos diwethaf, mynychais gyfarfod yng Nghanolfan Ewropeaidd Cymru yng Nghaerdydd i drafod cynlluniau’r Comisiwn Ewropeaidd i ymestyn yr Undeb i gynnwys 15 o wledydd newydd. Mae’r rhaglen hon yn gyffrous ac, fel y clywsom gan gynrychiolydd y Comisiwn, fe’i gweithredir dros y blynyddoedd nesaf. Mae’r ffaith fod 15 o wledydd newydd yn awyddus i ymuno â’r Undeb Ewropeaidd yn berthnasol i’r pwnc dan drafodaeth heddiw. Bydd nifer y gwledydd yn yr Undeb Ewropeaidd yn dyblu: bydd maint poplogaeth yr Undeb yn cynyddu o un rhan o dair; a bydd nifer y ffermwyr yn yr Undeb Ewropeaidd yn cynyddu o saith miliwn i 18 miliwn.
Last week I attended a meeting in the Wales European Centre in Cardiff to discuss the European Commission’s plans to expand the Union to include 15 new countries. This is an exciting programme and, as we heard from the Commission’s representative, it will be implemented over the next few years. The fact that the 15 new countries are eager to join the European Union is relevant to what we are discussing today. The number of countries in the European Union will double; the population of the European Union will increase by a third; and the number of farmers in the European Union will increase from seven million to 18 million.
Mae goblygiadau mawr i ni gyd o ganlyniad i’r ymestyniad hwn. Mae nifer o bobl yn ei ystyried fel bygythiad. Yr oedd hyn yn amlwg yn y bleidlais ddiweddar yn Iwerddon yn erbyn Cytundeb Nice. Mae teimlad yng Nghymru hefyd bod hyn yn fygythiad. Y rheswm an hynny, efallai, yw’r syniad y bydd Cymru yn derbyn llai o arian Ewropeaidd a’r gwledydd newydd yn derbyn mwy. Nid dyna ddehongliad y gwledydd newydd o’r rhesymau dros ymuno â’r Undeb Ewropeaidd. Clywsom gyflwyniad diddorol gan Lysgennad y Weriniaeth Tsiec yn ystod ei ymweliad â ni yr wythnos diwethaf. Mae’r gwledydd newydd yn awyddus i ymuno â’r Undeb, nid oherwydd yr arian Ewropeaidd ond, yn hytrach, am eu bod yn awyddus i ddod yn rhan o system ddemocrataidd yr Undeb Ewropeaidd. Nid ydynt yn ystyried buddiannau ariannol fel y prif resymau dros ymuno. Mae’n bwysig ein bod yn deall hynny, a’n bod yn ystyried yr ymestyniad Ewropeaidd newydd fel cyfle arbennig ac unigryw i ni yng Nghymru.
This expansion has great implications for us all. Many people consider it to be a threat. This was evident from the recent Irish vote against the Nice Treaty. There is also a feeling in Wales that this is a threat. The possible reason for that is the idea that Wales will receive less European funding and that the new countries will receive more. That is not how these new countries interpret their reasons for joining the Union. We heard an interesting presentation from the Ambassador of the Czech Republic during his visit last week. These countries are eager to join the Union, not because of European funding but because they are eager to be part of the democratic system of the European Union. They do not consider monetary interests as being the main reasons for joining. It is important that we realise that and that we view the new European expansion as a special and unique opportunity for us in Wales.
Mae’n arwyddocaol bod y gwledydd newydd hyn yn gymharol fach o ran maint a’u bod, mewn sawl ffordd, yn debyg i Gymru. Mae gennym gyfle arbennig yma i werthu Cymru dramor. Mae llawer o’r gwledydd newydd yn teimlo’n ansicr wrth ddelio â’r pwerau mawr fel Lloegr, yr Almaen a Ffrainc. Maent yn hapusach ac yn fwy hyderus yn trafod gyda gwledydd llai, fel Cymru, sydd, yn eu tyb hwy, yn debycach iddynt hwy ac felly yn rhannu nifer o’r un problemau ac agweddau.
It is significant that these new countries are quite small in size and are, in many ways, similar to Wales. We have a great opportunity here to sell Wales abroad. Many of these new countries feel uncertain when dealing with the big powers such as England, Germany and France. They are happier and more confident when discussing with smaller countries such as Wales, which they feel are more similar to them and share the same problems and approaches.
Felly, mae’n gyfle inni yng Nghymru ddatblygu cysylltiadau uniongyrchol gyda rhai o’r partneriaid newydd fydd gennym yn yr Undeb Ewropeaidd yn y blynyddoedd nesaf. Gallwn ddatblygu partneriaethau diwylliannol ynghyd â phartneriaethau busnes. Mae economïau’r gwledydd hyn yn datblygu’n gyflym. Economïau gwledig sydd ganddynt i raddau helaeth, ond maent hefyd yn datblygu sgiliau newydd. Dyma sgiliau y gallem elwa ohonynt drwy ddatblygu partneriaethau busnes gyda chwmnïau yn y gwledydd hyn. Maent yn gwmnïau, fel y dywedais, fydd yn hapus i siarad â ni yng Nghymru ac yn gyfforddus wrth wneud hynny oherwydd eu bod yn gweld tebygrwydd yn y ffordd yr ydym yn datblygu fel gwlad a’r ffordd y gwelant eu hunain yn datblygu yn y cyd-destun Ewropeaidd.
Therefore, this is an opportunity for us in Wales to develop direct contacts with some of the new partners that we will have in the European Union in the next few years. We can develop cultural partnerships as well as business partnerships. These countries’ economies are developing rapidly. Their economies are rural to a great extent, but they are also developing new skills. These are skills that we can take advantage of by developing business partnerships with companies in these countries. These are companies, as I have said, that will be happy to talk to us in Wales, and will feel comfortable in doing so as they can see a similarity in the way in which we are developing as a country and the way in which they see themselves developing in the European context.
Hoffwn weld y Cynulliad yn meddwl mewn ffordd greadigol ynglŷn â’r modd y gallwn ddatblygu cysylltiadau unigryw ac uniongyrchol gyda’r gwledydd newydd hyn fydd yn gwneud cyfraniad pwysig i’r UE yn y blynyddoedd nesaf. Mae potensial mawr gennym yng Nghymru i gysylltu â’r gwledydd hyn yn gynnar a dweud ein bod ni yng Nghymru yn rhan o’r UE a bod gennym lawer yma y gallwn ei gynnig iddynt ddysgu oddi wrtho. Gallwn eu helpu i chwarae rhan ganolog yn Ewrop fel gwlad fach â chyfraniad unigryw i’w wneud. Felly, mae hwn yn gyfle gwych inni yng Nghymru gynyddu ein presenoldeb yn y byd, gwella ein delwedd yn y byd a helpu rhai o’r gwledydd newydd hyn i ddatblygu rôl gref yn yr Undeb Ewropeaidd newydd. Bydd yn ddyfodol cyffrous inni i gyd, yn enwedig y gwledydd bach yn yr Ewrop newydd sydd yn datblygu.
I would like to see the Assembly thinking creatively about how we can develop unique and direct contacts with these new countries that will be making an important contribution to the EU in the next few years. We have great potential in Wales to contact these countries early and to say that we in Wales are part of the EU and that we have much to offer them, from which they can learn. We can help them to play a central role in Europe as a small country with a unique contribution to make. This is, therefore, an excellent opportunity for us in Wales to raise our presence and improve our image in the world, and help some of these new countries to develop a strong role in the new European Union. It will be an exciting future for us all, particularly the small countries in the new Europe that is developing.
Mick Bates, in particular, covered some of the areas that I wanted to mention with regard to portraying Wales and getting Wales recognised in its own right. That should not be as a nationalist country, as espoused by Owen John Thomas, but Wales should be recognised for the beautiful place that it is and for the contribution that we can make in the wider world. That particularly covers the arts and sports. Already mentioned are places such as the Millennium Stadium. In some ways, we do not need to work too hard to get Wales noticed nationally and internationally when big events are hosted there. When we have the Wales Millennium Centre in Cardiff Bay, it will also provide an opportunity for Wales to be seen on the worldwide stage as far as performing arts are concerned. I hope that there will be opportunities for many people in Wales to show their talent at the Wales Millennium Centre. People will be welcome there whether they come from the Valleys, north Wales, west Wales, any other part of Wales, or, indeed, the whole of the United Kingdom.
Soniodd Mick Bates, yn benodol, am rai o’r meysydd yr oeddwn am eu crybwyll o ran portreadu Cymru a chael cydnabyddiaeth i Gymru ynddi ei hun. Ni ddylai hynny fod fel gwlad genedlaetholaidd, fel y cefnogir gan Owen John Thomas, ond dylid cydnabod Cymru am ei harddwch ac am y cyfraniad y gallwn ei wneud yn y byd ehangach. Mae hynny’n arbennig o berthnasol i’r celfyddydau a chwaraeon. Soniwyd eisoes am lefydd fel Stadiwm y Mileniwm. I ryw raddau, nid oes angen inni weithio’n rhy galed i sicrhau sylw cenedlaethol a rhyngwladol i Gymru pan gynhelir digwyddiadau mawr yno. Pan ddaw Canolfan Mileniwm Cymru i Fae Caerdydd, bydd hefyd yn darparu cyfle i Gymru gael ei gweld ar lwyfan byd-eang o ran y celfyddydau perfformio. Gobeithiaf y bydd cyfleoedd i lawer o bobl yng Nghymru ddangos eu doniau yng Nghanolfan Mileniwm Cymru. Bydd croeso yno i bobl pa un a ddeuant o’r Cymoedd, gogledd Cymru, gorllewin Cymru, unrhyw ran arall o Gymru, neu, yn wir, y Deyrnas Unedig gyfan.
Some people think of branding Wales as a symbol. We obviously have the Red Dragon, which is recognised worldwide. However, there is also an idea, which I will return to shortly, about the sword Excalibur being used as a symbol for Wales. [Laughter.] You may laugh, but when we talk about branding Wales we are really talking about ourselves, about looking outwards and being confident, rather than continually looking inwards and wringing our hands. We have a responsibility to do that job ourselves. However, we cannot do that on our own. The most powerful vehicle for helping us to portray Wales as a proud and confident nation is the media. Film-makers and TV programme-makers particularly have a responsibility to portray Wales and those who live here—whether Welsh born or those who choose to move here, Welsh-speaking or non-Welsh-speaking—in a positive light, rather than as silly stereotypes. I enjoy a laugh. For obvious reasons, I loved Satellite City. I can sit back and laugh at our characteristics in the same way as we laugh at Father Ted, Rab C. Nesbitt and The Royle Family. All individual parts of the UK have their own characteristics. I do not have a problem with that. However, in serious drama the token Welsh person is often portrayed as a silly character. Drama is a strong vehicle, and programme makers have a responsibility.
Mae rhai yn meddwl mai fel symbol y caiff Cymru ei brandio. Yn amlwg, mae’r Ddraig Goch gennym, a gydnabyddir ledled y byd. Fodd bynnag, mae syniad hefyd, y dychwelaf ato maes o law, y gellid defnyddio cleddyf Caledfwlch fel symbol o Gymru. [Chwerthin]. Digon hawdd i chi chwerthin, ond wrth sôn am frandio Cymru yr ydym mewn gwirionedd yn sôn amdanom ni ein hunain, am edrych tuag allan a bod yn hyderus, yn hytrach na pharhau i edrych tuag i mewn gan wasgu ein dwylo ynghyd. Mae cyfrifoldeb arnom i wneud y gwaith hwnnw ein hunain. Fodd bynnag, ni allwn wneud hynny ar ein pen ein hunain. Y dull mwyaf pwerus i’n helpu i bortreadu Cymru fel gwlad falch a hyderus yw’r cyfryngau. Mae gan wneuthurwyr ffilmiau a rhaglenni teledu gyfrifoldeb arbennig i bortreadu Cymru a’r rhai sydd yn byw yno—boed yn enedigol o Gymru neu’r rhai sydd yn dewis symud yma, yn Gymry Cymraeg neu’n ddi-Gymraeg—mewn goleuni cadarnhaol, yn hytrach nag ystrydebau gwirion. Yr wyf yn hoffi jôc. Am resymau amlwg, gwirionais ar Satellite City. Gallaf eistedd yn ôl a chwerthin ar ein nodweddion yn yr un ffordd ag y chwarddwn wrth wylio Father Ted, Rab C. Nesbitt a The Royle Family. Mae nodweddion penodol gan bob rhan unigol o’r DU. Nid yw hynny’n broblem imi. Fodd bynnag, mewn drama ddifrifol portreadir y person symbolaidd o Gymru yn aml fel cymeriad gwirion. Mae drama yn gyfrwng cryf, ac mae gan wneuthurwyr rhaglenni gyfrifoldeb.
I take advantage of this opportunity to congratulate a recent tourism personality of the year, John Wake, who does a great deal of work with tourist operators and news editors from all over the world. He takes them around Wales and sells the country to them. A group of Australian news editors were particularly taken with his ideas regarding the Arthurian legend. Arthur was Welsh, and John is trying to ensure that Excalibur, Arthur’s sword, is placed in a lake in Wales. He would like it to be placed in Cardiff Bay, but there is also a bid from north Wales. We may take this idea lightly, but the point is that many people are working hard to promote Wales, and we must engage with them. A product being strongly pushed by John Wake is Welsh tartan. Cardiff has a Welsh tartan centre. If you look at some of the photographs along the first floor corridor of this building, you will see many women wearing Welsh tartan. There are opportunities here for us to promote Welsh produce as well as Welsh culture.
Manteisiaf ar y cyfle hwn i longyfarch un o enillwyr diweddar personoliaeth twristiaeth y flwyddyn, John Wake, sydd yn gwneud llawer o waith gyda chwmnïau twristiaeth a golygyddion newyddion o bob cwr o’r byd. Mae’n eu tywys o amgylch Cymru ac yn gwerthu’r wlad iddynt. Gwnaeth ei syniadau ynghylch chwedl Arthur argraff fawr ar grŵp o olygyddion newyddion o Awstralia. Cymro oedd Arthur, ac mae John yn ceisio sicrhau y caiff Caledfwlch, cleddyf Arthur, ei roi mewn llyn yng Nghymru. Hoffai iddo gael ei roi ym Mae Caerdydd, ond cafwyd cais hefyd o ogledd Cymru. Efallai na roddwn lawer o bwys ar y syniad hwn, ond y gwirionedd yw bod llawer o bobl yn gweithio’n galed i hyrwyddo Cymru, a rhaid inni gysylltu â hwy. Un cynnyrch a hyrwyddir yn frwd gan John Wake yw tartan Cymreig. Mae canolfan tartan Cymreig yng Nghaerdydd. Os edrychwch ar rai o’r ffotograffau ar hyd coridor llawr cyntaf yr adeilad hwn, fe welwch lawer o ferched yn gwisgo tartan Cymreig. Mae cyfleoedd yma inni hyrwyddo cynnyrch o Gymru yn ogystal â diwylliant Cymru.
In relation to Welsh culture—and it is a shame that Mick Bates is no longer present—we can look at people such as Dylan Thomas and Bob Dylan. Bob Dylan took his surname from Dylan Thomas, so there is a link with Wales there. We will really portray Wales through art and culture, and I want the Culture Committee to do some serious work in this respect. We have a serious responsibility to promote Wales throughout the world.
Mewn perthynas â diwylliant Cymru—ac mae’n drueni nad yw Mick Bates yn bresennol o hyd—gallwn edrych ar bobl fel Dylan Thomas a Bob Dylan. Cymerodd Bob Dylan ei gyfenw oddi wrth Dylan Thomas, felly mae cyswllt yno â Chymru. Byddwn yn mynd ati o ddifrif i bortreadu Cymru drwy gelf a diwylliant, a hoffwn i’r Pwyllgor Diwylliant fwrw ati’n ddygn yn hyn o beth. Mae gennym gyfrifoldeb difrifol i hyrwyddo Cymru ledled y byd.
Rhodri Morgan Prif Weinidog Cymru siaradwyd yn Gymraeg ac yn Saesneg t. 29
Rhodri Morgan The First Minister spoken in Welsh and English p. 29
Diolch i bob Aelod sydd wedi cymryd rhan yn y ddadl hon.
in Welsh I thank every Member who has taken part in this debate.
I will start with Phil’s comments. The unit involved in promoting Wales has been expanded from four to 10 people. Your figures were for 2000. Its budget is now £1.1 million, not £0.5 million. It has been expanded in the spirit that you mentioned. You asked what happened to the exercise carried out in 1998-99 when Ron Davies was Secretary of State for Wales. That exercise has been built upon to produce the pack that we launched on 1 March 2001. Also, it led to the presentation given to us earlier this month by the Central Office of Information on how to re-brand Wales in the same way as Ireland, Scotland and New Zealand have done. That exercise is now being implemented. The presentation was one of the instigators of the policy that we are presenting in this debate. That exercise has been built upon. It has not been abandoned, and this work is a continuation of the work that began just prior to devolution.
yn Saesneg Dechreuaf gyda sylwadau Phil. Ehangwyd yr uned sydd yn ymwneud â hyrwyddo Cymru o bedwar i 10 o bobl. Yr oedd eich ffigurau ar gyfer 2000. Mae ei chyllideb bellach yn £1.1 miliwn, nid £0.5 miliwn. Fe’i hehangwyd yn yr ysbryd a grybwyllwyd gennych. Gofynasoch beth a ddigwyddodd i’r ymarfer a gynhaliwyd yn 1998-99 pan oedd Ron Davies yn Ysgrifennydd Gwladol Cymru. Datblygwyd yr ymarfer hwnnw i gynhyrchu’r pecyn a lansiwyd gennym ar 1 Mawrth 2001. Hefyd, arweiniodd at y cyflwyniad a gawsom yn gynharach y mis hwn gan y Swyddfa Hysbysrwydd Ganolog ar sut i ailfrandio Cymru yn yr un modd ag Iwerddon, yr Alban a Seland Newydd. Mae’r ymarfer hwnnw bellach yn cael ei weithredu. Yr oedd y cyflwyniad yn rhan o’r sbardun i’r polisi a gyflwynir gennym yn y ddadl hon. Adeiladwyd ar yr ymarfer hwnnw. Ni roddwyd y gorau iddo, ac mae’r gwaith hwn yn parhau â’r gwaith a ddechreuodd yn union cyn datganoli.
We have an image as a country that has transformed itself, but an image cannot be attached to one aspect of policy alone. Sustainable development is part of the image but it cannot be the image on its own. People may have particular bees in their bonnets, or feel strongly about certain issues, as you do, Phil, about sustainable development, and sustainable development may well be part of the image. I think that it will be, and I mentioned it in my speech for that reason. However, it cannot be the sole basis of our image, or the result would be too narrow.
yn Saesneg Mae gennym ddelwedd o wlad sydd wedi trawsnewid ei hun, ond ni ellir cysylltu delwedd ag un agwedd ar bolisi yn unig. Mae datblygu cynaliadwy yn rhan o’r ddelwedd ond ni all greu’r ddelwedd ar ei ben ei hun. Efallai fod gan bobl rhyw chwilen yn eu pen, neu deimladau cryf am faterion penodol, fel sydd gennych chi, Phil, am ddatblygu cynaliadwy, ac mae’n bosibl iawn y bydd datblygu cynaliadwy yn rhan o’r ddelwedd. Credaf y bydd, a dyna pam y soniais amdano yn fy araith. Fodd bynnag, nid dyna fydd unig sail ein delwedd, neu byddai’r canlyniad yn rhy gul.
Turning to your constructive contribution, Nick, you are right to refer to the Millennium Stadium. Countries need iconic buildings, in the way that Australia has the Sydney Opera House. In some ways, the Millennium Stadium is the most important development in giving us an icon recognisable throughout the world, and I am glad that you mentioned it.
yn Saesneg Gan droi at eich cyfraniad adeiladol, Nick, yr ydych yn llygad eich lle wrth gyfeirio at Stadiwm y Mileniwm. Mae angen adeiladau eiconig ar wledydd, fel sydd gan Awstralia gyda Thŷ Opera Sydney. I ryw raddau, Stadiwm y Mileniwm yw’r datblygiad pwysicaf gan roi inni eicon y gellir ei adnabod ledled y byd, ac yr wyf yn falch ichi sôn amdano.
My point about seaside holidays was that we will not get growth in tourism through that market. The future for Tenby, Llandudno, Porthcawl and other similar towns is to try to develop the ability to hang on to a market in a different way. For example, when I meet Llandudno hoteliers they emphasise to me that they are pursuing the Saga holiday market now because they cannot hang on to the traditional family holiday market. They also want more conference business. That is probably true to a lesser degree of Porthcawl, Tenby, Aberystwyth and the other resorts that you mentioned where there are not so many hotels.
yn Saesneg Fy mhwynt o ran gwyliau ar lan y môr oedd na chawn dwf mewn twristiaeth drwy’r farchnad honno. Dyfodol Dinbych-y-Pysgod, Llandudno, Porthcawl a threfi tebyg eraill fydd ceisio datblygu’r gallu i ddenu’r farchnad mewn ffordd wahanol. Er enghraifft, pan gyfarfyddaf â pherchenogion gwestai yn Llandudno pwysleisiant eu bod erbyn hyn yn mynd ar drywydd y farchnad wyliau Saga gan nad ydynt yn parhau i ddenu’r farchnad wyliau deuluol draddodiadol. Maent hefyd am ddenu mwy o fusnes cynadleddau. Mae’n debyg bod hynny’n wir i raddau llai am Borthcawl, Dinbych-y-Pysgod, Aberystwyth a’r cyrchfannau eraill a grybwyllwyd gennych lle nad oes cymaint o westai.
I raise a point about the Millennium Stadium. It is an important icon and the sporting events are also important. Will you therefore welcome the Special Olympics Summer Games to Cardiff between 28 July and 4 August? It does good work. If it so significant that the Millennium Stadium is used, will you help them to achieve that, because it is having difficulty doing so at present?
Codaf bwynt am Stadiwm y Mileniwm. Mae’n eicon pwysig ac mae’r digwyddiadau chwaraeon hefyd yn bwysig. Felly, a groesawch Gemau Olympaidd Arbennig yr Haf i Gaerdydd rhwng 28 Gorffennaf a 4 Awst? Gwna waith da. Os yw defnyddio Stadiwm y Mileniwm mor arwyddocaol, a roddwch gymorth iddynt gyflawni hynny, gan eu bod yn cael anawsterau wrth wneud hynny ar hyn o bryd?
Rhodri Morgan The First Minister spoken in English p. 30
Rhodri Morgan Prif Weinidog Cymru siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 30
I read about that in the press and I would like to hear more about it. I had always understood that that event would take place at Leckwith Stadium. I did not know that there was a dispute about it. The Special Olympics is an important initiative, brought here, I believe, by Cardiff County Council and I want to support it. I did not know that there was a row until I read about it in the press. I would like to hear more about that. To turn to Nick’s point because Alun Cairns also mentioned it—
Darllenais am hynny yn y wasg a hoffwn glywed mwy am y peth. Yr oeddwn ar ddeall y byddai’r digwyddiad hwnnw yn cael ei gynnal yn Stadiwm Lecwydd. Ni wyddwn fod anghydfod yn ei gylch. Mae’r Gemau Olympaidd Arbennig yn fenter bwysig, a ddenwyd yma, fe gredaf, gan Gyngor Sir Caerdydd a hoffwn ei chefnogi. Ni wyddwn fod anghydweld tan imi ddarllen amdano yn y wasg. Hoffwn glywed mwy am hynny. Gan droi at bwynt Nick gan i Alun Cairns ei grybwyll hefyd—
Does the First Minister agree that if we were to tell the world that we are British we would not have an image problem?
A gytuna’r Prif Weinidog pe byddem yn datgan i’r byd ein bod yn Brydeinig na fyddai gennym broblem o ran delwedd?
Rhodri Morgan The First Minister spoken in Welsh and English p. 31
Rhodri Morgan Prif Weinidog Cymru siaradwyd yn Gymraeg ac yn Saesneg t. 31
That point is unique to you, Rod. Many of us feel proud to be Welsh and we see this as an important opportunity. It is important for inward investment, for exports, for the conference trade, for tourism and in all manner of ways that I think you forget. To some extent, the image does not exist for vainglorious reasons. It is good for business, for self-confidence and for making Wales a better, prouder, wealthier and smarter country. The point that Nick and Alun Cairns made about deregulation and fast-track procedures and the comparison that they made with Singapore and Hong Kong—they could have also mentioned Ireland—is important. It fits into the image of the people. The most significant fact that is a secret and that shocks people when they come to Wales is how nice the people are. When tourists come here they receive an exceptionally warm welcome. When Thyssens came from Germany to Llanelli to build the Cynheidre Colliery, their workers were warned to expect hostility because it was just after the war. However, the Llanelli Silver Band turned up to welcome them to the town. Sony was warmly welcomed when it came to Bridgend in 1973. The warmth of the welcome is the secret and it gives people a pleasant surprise when they locate their factories here or visit Wales as tourists. We must get that point about the warm welcome across. The warmth of the welcome includes fast-tracking and being friendly when it comes to dealing with regulations that can upset businesses or make them think that red tape will in some way hamper their business.
yn Saesneg Mae’r pwynt hwnnw yn unigryw i chi, Rod. Mae llawer ohonom yn ymfalchïo yn y ffaith ein bod yn Gymry ac yn ystyried bod hwn yn gyfle pwysig. Mae’n bwysig o ran mewnfuddsoddi, allforio, y fasnach gynadledda, twristiaeth a llawer o agweddau eraill a anghofiwyd gennych. I ryw raddau, nid yw’r ddelwedd yn bodoli am resymau coegfalch. Mae’n dda o ran busnes, hunan-hyder ac o ran sicrhau bod Cymru yn wlad well, mwy balch, cyfoethog a chlyfar. Mae’r pwynt gan Nick ac Alun Cairns ynghylch dadreoleiddio a gweithdrefnau carlam a’r gymhariaeth a wnaethpwyd gyda Singapôr a Hong Kong—gellid bod wedi sôn am Iwerddon hefyd—yn bwysig. Mae’n cyfateb â delwedd y bobl. Y ffaith fwyaf arwyddocaol sydd yn gyfrinach ac sydd yn synnu pobl pan ddônt i Gymru yw pa mor ddymunol yw’r bobl. Pan ddaw twristiaid yma cânt groeso eithriadol o gynnes. Pan ddaeth Thyssens o’r Almaen i Lanelli i adeiladu Glofa Cynheidre, rhybuddiwyd eu gweithwyr i ddisgwyl drwgdeimlad gan ei fod yn union wedi’r rhyfel. Fodd bynnag, trefnwyd i Fand Arian Llanelli eu croesawu i’r dref. Rhoddwyd croeso cynnes i Sony pan ddaeth i Ben-y-bont ar Ogwr yn 1973. Cynhesrwydd y croeso yw’r gyfrinach ac mae’n galondid i bobl pan leolant eu ffatrïoedd yma neu pan ymwelant â Chymru fel twristiaid. Rhaid inni gyfleu’r pwynt hwnnw am y croeso cynnes. Mae cynhesrwydd y croeso yn cynnwys dull carlam a bod yn ystyriol o ran delio â rheoliadau a all siomi busnesau neu wneud iddynt feddwl y bydd biwrocratiaeth yn amharu ar eu busnes mewn rhyw ffordd.
Yr oedd araith Mick yn bwysig. Pwysleisiodd y gwyliau pwysig sydd gennym yng Nghymru, fel Gŵyl Lenyddol a Chelfyddydol y Gelli. Cefais y pleser o gyflwyno Bill Clinton pan annerchodd yr ŵyl honno. Mae’r ffaith fod Bill Clinton wedi dod i’r ŵyl lenyddol ryngwladol honno wedi gwneud llawer o les i Gymru, ac i’r ŵyl. Mae Eisteddfod Gerddorol Gydwladol Llangollen, yr Eisteddfod Genedlaethol, Sioe Frenhinol Cymru, a Gŵyl Jazz Aberhonddu i gyd yn bwysig. Maent yn denu sêr y byd i ddod i Gymru, boed hynny am noson neu ddwy yn unig.
in Welsh Mick’s speech was important. He emphasised the important festivals that we have in Wales, such as the Hay Festival of Literature and the Arts. I had the pleasure of introducing Bill Clinton when he addressed that festival. The fact that Bill Clinton came to that international festival of literature has done a great deal for Wales, and for the festival. The Llangollen International Musical Eisteddfod, the National Eisteddfod, the Royal Welsh Show and the Brecon Jazz Festival are all important. They attract the stars of the world to Wales, even if only for a night or two.
The point that Mick made about arts and culture and food and drink exports—and if I did not emphasise those enough in my opening speech, I apologise—is important. When you go to a posh hotel in Tokyo or New York and see a bottle Tŷ Nant water on the table, you think that if 100 companies in Wales had the inspiration that Tŷ Nant Spring Water had, we would not have many of the economic problems that we do today. It has acted as a trailblazer for many other food and drink exports, such as cheeses, meats and others. Welsh food and drink should follow where Tŷ Nant has blazed a trail.
yn Saesneg Mae’r pwynt a wnaeth Nick ynghylch y celfyddydau a diwylliant ac allforio bwyd a diod—ac os na phwysleisiais yr elfennau hynny yn ddigonol yn fy araith agoriadol, ymddiheuraf—yn bwysig. Pan ewch i westy crand yn Tokyo neu Efrog Newydd a gweld potel o ddŵr Tŷ Nant ar y bwrdd, meddyliwch pe bai 100 o gwmnïau yng Nghymru wedi dangos yr un ysbrydoliaeth â Dŵr Ffynnon Tŷ Nant, ni fyddem yn dioddef llawer o’r problemau economaidd sydd gennym heddiw. Gweithredodd fel arweinydd i lawer o allforion bwyd a diod eraill, megis caws, cigoedd ac eraill. Dylai bwyd a diod Cymru ddilyn llwybr arloesol Tŷ Nant.
Diolch, Elin, am eich cydymdeimlad. Mae Sue Essex wedi beirniadu George Bush eisoes mewn sawl cyswllt ynglŷn â’r ffaith ei fod wedi mynegi agwedd unigryw ar Kyoto a’r ymrwymiadau y mae gwledydd eraill y byd yn eu hystyried mor bwysig i ddyfodol y byd.
in Welsh Thank you, Elin, for your sympathy. Sue Essex has already criticised George Bush in many contexts for the fact that he has taken a unique line on Kyoto and the commitments that the other countries of the world consider so important for the future of the world.
Glyn stated that he thought that the Cabinet had not been ambitious enough, but that is one reason for holding this debate. It gives us a platform to get the backing of the Assembly to proceed in that direction.
yn Saesneg Nododd Glyn ei fod o’r farn na fu’r Cabinet yn ddigon uchelgeisiol, ond dyna un rheswm dros gynnal y ddadl hon. Rhydd lwyfan inni sicrhau cefnogaeth y Cynulliad i fwrw ati yn y cyfeiriad hwnnw.
Alun, I have already mentioned some of your points, but, concerning inward investment, I will just say that we are pleased to have high-brainpower investments coming to Wales. The Technium centre in Swansea is a classic example of that, with Agilent Technologies coming there. That is the first American research and development company to locate its research and development centre in Wales. Likewise, EDS announced 50 additional ‘brainpower’ jobs in Swansea this morning. We need these types of investments because they keep the brightest and best of our young people at home. Those young people may become the creators of their own businesses after they have had five or 10 years’ experience with Agilent or EDS in their research laboratories or software development laboratories.
yn Saesneg Alun, yr wyf eisoes wedi crybwyll rhai o’ch pwyntiau, ond, o ran mewnfuddsoddi, hoffwn ddweud ein bod yn falch bod buddsoddiadau ‘ymenyddol’ yn dod i Gymru. Mae’r ganolfan Techniwm yn Abertawe yn enghraifft ardderchog o hynny, gydag Agilent Technologies yn dod yno. Dyna’r cwmni ymchwil a datblygu cyntaf o America i leoli ei ganolfan ymchwil a datblygu yng Nghymru. Yn yr un modd, cyhoeddodd EDS 50 o swyddi ‘ymenyddol’ ychwanegol yn Abertawe y bore yma. Mae angen y mathau hyn o fuddsoddiadau arnom gan eu bod yn cadw’r goreuon o blith ein pobl ifanc ddeallus yn eu cynefin. Efallai y bydd y bobl ifanc hynny yn creu eu busnesau eu hunain ar ôl magu pump neu 10 mlynedd o brofiad gydag Agilent neu EDS yn eu labordai ymchwil neu labordai datblygu meddalwedd.
Delyth, cytunaf ei bod yn egwyddor bwysig bod cenhedloedd bach fel Cymru yn gallu siarad llawer gwell â thaleithiau mewn gwledydd eraill neu genhedloedd bach fel Gwlad Pwyl, sydd yn symud tuag at ymuno â’r Undeb Ewropeaidd.
in Welsh Delyth, I agree that it is an important principle that small nations like Wales are much more able to speak to states in other countries or small nations like Poland that are moving towards joining the European Union.
Lorraine’s point was the importance of, if we are to have a better self-image in Wales, getting more films made in Wales, and more jobs for actors, producers, screen technicians and so on. We have never been able to put that together so that we can consistently score well in getting films made in or about Wales, or in having television soaps set in Wales. That is wanting.
yn Saesneg Yr oedd pwynt Lorraine yn ymwneud â phwysigrwydd gwneud mwy o ffilmiau yng Nghymru, a mwy o swyddi i actorion, cynhyrchwyr, technegwyr sgrîn ac ati, os ydym am sicrhau hunan-ddelwedd well i Gymru. Ni lwyddwyd erioed i weithredu hynny er mwyn sgorio’n gyson dda wrth wneud ffilmiau yng Nghymru neu am Gymru, neu wrth leoli operâu sebon ar y teledu yng Nghymru. Mae hynny’n ddiffyg.
Finally, I turn to the amendments. I am sorry to say that I recommend rejecting them, mostly because they are drafting points that are not worth including. Amendment 1 is simply a drafting point and not worth considering. Amendment 2 mentions the tourist industry. We have had a 30 per cent increase in revenue this year. In a way, the amendment recognises what we have done rather than stating that we should act differently. The tourist industry will probably get additional Objective 1 money. It would not be wise at all to support that amendment. Amendment 3 talks about generating the conditions necessary for attracting investment, but the WDA has had its most successful year ever and is 15 per cent up on its target and so the amendment does not strike the right note at all.
yn Saesneg I gloi, trof at y gwelliannau. Mae’n ddrwg gennyf ddweud fy mod yn argymell eu gwrthod, yn bennaf am mai pwyntiau drafftio ydynt ac nad ydynt yn werth eu cynnwys. Pwynt drafftio yw gwelliant 1 ac nid yw’n werth ei ystyried. Mae gwelliant 2 yn sôn am y diwydiant twristiaeth. Gwelwyd cynnydd o 30 y cant mewn refeniw eleni. Mewn ffordd, mae’r gwelliant yn cydnabod yr hyn a wnaethpwyd gennym yn hytrach na datgan y dylem weithredu’n wahanol. Fwy na thebyg y bydd y diwydiant twristiaeth yn cael arian Amcan 1 ychwanegol. Ni fyddai’n ddoeth o gwbl cefnogi’r gwelliant hwnnw. Mae gwelliant 3 yn sôn am greu’r amodau sydd eu hangen i ddenu buddsoddiad, ond llwyddodd Awdurdod Datblygu Cymru i fwynhau ei flwyddyn fwyaf llwyddiannus erioed gan ragori ar ei darged o 15 y cant ac felly nid yw’r gwelliant yn briodol o gwbl.
Amendment 4, in the name of Jocelyn Davies, is far too narrow because it specifies sustainable development. We are not against sustainable development—I mentioned it in my speech—but the amendment reflects far too narrow an approach. Finally, amendment 5 is way over the top in saying that Wales should have a presence at virtually all international conferences, consultations and meetings of international bodies. Therefore, I am sorry to say that we will vote against all the amendments.
yn Saesneg Mae gwelliant 4, yn enw Jocelyn Davies, yn llawer rhy gul gan ei fod yn nodi datblygu cynaliadwy yn benodol. Nid ydym yn erbyn datblygu cynaliadwy—soniais amdano yn fy araith—ond mae’r gwelliant yn adlewyrchu ymagwedd llawer rhy gul. Yn olaf, mae gwelliant 5 yn mynd dros ben llestri gan ddatgan y dylai fod gan Gymru bresenoldeb ymron pob cynhadledd ryngwladol, ymgynghoriad a chyfarfodydd o gyrff rhyngwladol. Felly, mae’n ddrwg gennyf ddweud y byddwn yn pleidleisio yn erbyn pob un o’r gwelliannau.
Gwelliant 1 Nick Bourne t. 33
Amendment 1 Nick Bourne p. 33
GwrthodwydRejected O blaidFor 9 YmatalAbstain 13 Yn erbynAgainst 26
Gwrthodwyd y gwelliant.
Amendment defeated.
Sut y pleidleisiodd yr AelodauHow Members voted
O blaidFor (9)
- Nick Bourne
- Alun Cairns
- David Davies
- Glyn Davies
- William Graham
- David Melding
- Jonathan Morgan
- Rod Richards
- Peter Rogers
YmatalAbstain (13)
- Geraint Davies
- Janet Davies
- Jocelyn Davies
- Brian Hancock
- Elin Jones
- Gareth Jones
- Helen Mary Jones
- Ieuan Wyn Jones
- David Lloyd
- Janet Ryder
- Owen John Thomas
- Dafydd Wigley
- Phil Williams
Yn erbynAgainst (26)
- Lorraine Barrett
- Mick Bates
- Peter Black
- Eleanor Burnham
- Rosemary Butler
- Christine Chapman
- Jane Davidson
- Andrew Davies
- Ron Davies
- Sue Essex
- Delyth Evans
- Michael German
- Brian Gibbons
- Janice Gregory
- John Griffiths
- Edwina Hart
- Jane Hutt
- Ann Jones
- Peter Law
- Tom Middlehurst
- Rhodri Morgan
- Lynne Neagle
- Alun Pugh
- Jenny Randerson
- Karen Sinclair
- Gwenda Thomas
Gwelliant 2 Nick Bourne t. 34
Amendment 2 Nick Bourne p. 34
GwrthodwydRejected O blaidFor 22 YmatalAbstain 0 Yn erbynAgainst 25
Gwrthodwyd y gwelliant.
Amendment defeated.
Sut y pleidleisiodd yr AelodauHow Members voted
O blaidFor (22)
- Nick Bourne
- Alun Cairns
- David Davies
- Geraint Davies
- Glyn Davies
- Janet Davies
- Jocelyn Davies
- William Graham
- Brian Hancock
- Elin Jones
- Gareth Jones
- Helen Mary Jones
- Ieuan Wyn Jones
- David Lloyd
- David Melding
- Jonathan Morgan
- Rod Richards
- Peter Rogers
- Janet Ryder
- Owen John Thomas
- Dafydd Wigley
- Phil Williams
Yn erbynAgainst (25)
- Lorraine Barrett
- Mick Bates
- Peter Black
- Eleanor Burnham
- Rosemary Butler
- Christine Chapman
- Jane Davidson
- Andrew Davies
- Ron Davies
- Sue Essex
- Delyth Evans
- Michael German
- Janice Gregory
- John Griffiths
- Edwina Hart
- Jane Hutt
- Ann Jones
- Peter Law
- Tom Middlehurst
- Rhodri Morgan
- Lynne Neagle
- Alun Pugh
- Jenny Randerson
- Karen Sinclair
- Gwenda Thomas
Gwelliant 3 Nick Bourne t. 35
Amendment 3 Nick Bourne p. 35
GwrthodwydRejected O blaidFor 9 YmatalAbstain 13 Yn erbynAgainst 26
Gwrthodwyd y gwelliant.
Amendment defeated.
Sut y pleidleisiodd yr AelodauHow Members voted
O blaidFor (9)
- Nick Bourne
- Alun Cairns
- David Davies
- Glyn Davies
- William Graham
- David Melding
- Jonathan Morgan
- Rod Richards
- Peter Rogers
YmatalAbstain (13)
- Geraint Davies
- Janet Davies
- Jocelyn Davies
- Brian Hancock
- Elin Jones
- Gareth Jones
- Helen Mary Jones
- Ieuan Wyn Jones
- David Lloyd
- Janet Ryder
- Owen John Thomas
- Dafydd Wigley
- Phil Williams
Yn erbynAgainst (26)
- Lorraine Barrett
- Mick Bates
- Peter Black
- Eleanor Burnham
- Rosemary Butler
- Christine Chapman
- Jane Davidson
- Andrew Davies
- Ron Davies
- Sue Essex
- Delyth Evans
- Michael German
- Brian Gibbons
- Janice Gregory
- John Griffiths
- Edwina Hart
- Jane Hutt
- Ann Jones
- Peter Law
- Tom Middlehurst
- Rhodri Morgan
- Lynne Neagle
- Alun Pugh
- Jenny Randerson
- Karen Sinclair
- Gwenda Thomas
Gwelliant 4 Phil Williams t. 36
Amendment 4 Phil Williams p. 36
GwrthodwydRejected O blaidFor 21 YmatalAbstain 0 Yn erbynAgainst 26
Gwrthodwyd y gwelliant.
Amendment defeated.
Sut y pleidleisiodd yr AelodauHow Members voted
O blaidFor (21)
- Nick Bourne
- Alun Cairns
- David Davies
- Geraint Davies
- Glyn Davies
- Jocelyn Davies
- William Graham
- Brian Hancock
- Elin Jones
- Gareth Jones
- Helen Mary Jones
- Ieuan Wyn Jones
- David Lloyd
- David Melding
- Jonathan Morgan
- Rod Richards
- Peter Rogers
- Janet Ryder
- Owen John Thomas
- Dafydd Wigley
- Phil Williams
Yn erbynAgainst (26)
- Lorraine Barrett
- Mick Bates
- Peter Black
- Eleanor Burnham
- Rosemary Butler
- Christine Chapman
- Jane Davidson
- Andrew Davies
- Ron Davies
- Sue Essex
- Delyth Evans
- Michael German
- Brian Gibbons
- Janice Gregory
- John Griffiths
- Edwina Hart
- Jane Hutt
- Ann Jones
- Peter Law
- Tom Middlehurst
- Rhodri Morgan
- Lynne Neagle
- Alun Pugh
- Jenny Randerson
- Karen Sinclair
- Gwenda Thomas
Gwelliant 5 Phil Williams t. 36
Amendment 5 Phil Williams p. 36
GwrthodwydRejected O blaidFor 13 YmatalAbstain 9 Yn erbynAgainst 26
Gwrthodwyd y gwelliant.
Amendment defeated.
Sut y pleidleisiodd yr AelodauHow Members voted
O blaidFor (13)
- Geraint Davies
- Janet Davies
- Jocelyn Davies
- Brian Hancock
- Elin Jones
- Gareth Jones
- Helen Mary Jones
- Ieuan Wyn Jones
- David Lloyd
- Janet Ryder
- Owen John Thomas
- Dafydd Wigley
- Phil Williams
YmatalAbstain (9)
- Nick Bourne
- Alun Cairns
- David Davies
- Glyn Davies
- William Graham
- David Melding
- Jonathan Morgan
- Rod Richards
- Peter Rogers
Yn erbynAgainst (26)
- Lorraine Barrett
- Mick Bates
- Peter Black
- Eleanor Burnham
- Rosemary Butler
- Christine Chapman
- Jane Davidson
- Andrew Davies
- Ron Davies
- Sue Essex
- Delyth Evans
- Michael German
- Brian Gibbons
- Janice Gregory
- John Griffiths
- Edwina Hart
- Jane Hutt
- Ann Jones
- Peter Law
- Tom Middlehurst
- Rhodri Morgan
- Lynne Neagle
- Alun Pugh
- Jenny Randerson
- Karen Sinclair
- Gwenda Thomas
DerbyniwydAdopted O blaidFor 47 YmatalAbstain 1 Yn erbynAgainst 0
Derbyniwyd y cynnig.
Motion carried.
Sut y pleidleisiodd yr AelodauHow Members voted
O blaidFor (47)
- Lorraine Barrett
- Mick Bates
- Peter Black
- Nick Bourne
- Eleanor Burnham
- Rosemary Butler
- Alun Cairns
- Christine Chapman
- Jane Davidson
- Andrew Davies
- David Davies
- Geraint Davies
- Glyn Davies
- Jocelyn Davies
- Ron Davies
- Sue Essex
- Delyth Evans
- Michael German
- Brian Gibbons
- William Graham
- Janice Gregory
- John Griffiths
- Brian Hancock
- Edwina Hart
- Jane Hutt
- Ann Jones
- Elin Jones
- Gareth Jones
- Helen Mary Jones
- Ieuan Wyn Jones
- Peter Law
- David Lloyd
- David Melding
- Tom Middlehurst
- Jonathan Morgan
- Rhodri Morgan
- Lynne Neagle
- Alun Pugh
- Jenny Randerson
- Rod Richards
- Peter Rogers
- Janet Ryder
- Karen Sinclair
- Gwenda Thomas
- Owen John Thomas
- Dafydd Wigley
- Phil Williams
YmatalAbstain (1)
- Janet Davies
Cynnig Trefniadol
Procedural Motion
Andrew Davies The Minister for Assembly Business spoken in English p. 38
Andrew Davies Y Trefnydd siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 38
I propose that
Cynigiaf fod
Cynnig trefniadol Andrew Davies t. 38
Procedural motion Andrew Davies p. 38
DerbyniwydAdopted O blaidFor 47 YmatalAbstain 0 Yn erbynAgainst 0
Derbyniwyd y cynnig.
Motion carried.
Sut y pleidleisiodd yr AelodauHow Members voted
O blaidFor (47)
- Lorraine Barrett
- Mick Bates
- Peter Black
- Nick Bourne
- Eleanor Burnham
- Rosemary Butler
- Alun Cairns
- Christine Chapman
- Jane Davidson
- Andrew Davies
- David Davies
- Geraint Davies
- Glyn Davies
- Janet Davies
- Jocelyn Davies
- Ron Davies
- Sue Essex
- Delyth Evans
- Michael German
- Brian Gibbons
- William Graham
- Janice Gregory
- John Griffiths
- Brian Hancock
- Edwina Hart
- Jane Hutt
- Ann Jones
- Elin Jones
- Gareth Jones
- Helen Mary Jones
- Peter Law
- David Lloyd
- David Melding
- Tom Middlehurst
- Jonathan Morgan
- Rhodri Morgan
- Lynne Neagle
- Alun Pugh
- Jenny Randerson
- Rod Richards
- Peter Rogers
- Janet Ryder
- Karen Sinclair
- Gwenda Thomas
- Owen John Thomas
- Dafydd Wigley
- Phil Williams
Datganiad ar Rhoi Cymunedau’n Gyntaf
Statement on Communities First
Edwina Hart The Minister for Finance, Local Government and Communities spoken in English p. 39
Edwina Hart Y Gweinidog dros Gyllid, Llywodraeth Leol a Chymunedau siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 39
First, I thank Members for the courteous way in which this statement has been dealt with this morning.
Yn gyntaf, diolchaf i’r Aelodau am y ffordd gwrtais y deliwyd â’r datganiad hwn y bore yma.
Communities First is an innovative initiative with ambitious aims. We aim to enable communities to pursue sustainable development and tackle social disadvantage locally in ways that best meet their needs. The way that we proceed should reflect those aims. That is why thorough consultation has been a vital element in every step of the way so far. Today, I will make a short statement on the responses to the second consultation exercise.
Mae Rhoi Cymunedau’n Gyntaf yn fenter arloesol ag iddi nodau uchelgeisiol. Ein nod yw ei gwneud yn bosibl i gymunedau fynd ar drywydd datblygu cynaliadwy a mynd i’r afael ag anfantais gymdeithasol yn lleol mewn ffyrdd sydd yn diwallu eu hanghenion orau. Dylai’r ffordd yr awn ati adlewyrchu’r nodau hynny. Dyna pam y bu ymgynghori trwyadl yn elfen hanfodol bob cam o’r ffordd hyd yn hyn. Heddiw, gwnaf ddatganiad byr ar yr ymatebion i’r ail ymarfer ymgynghori.
The first consultation concentrated on the vision and principles of Communities First. The second consultation takes us nearer its implementation. It outlined a policy framework and invited proposals on areas for inclusion in the programme. I launched the second consultation document on 6 December 2000. Copies were circulated to over 1,000 organisations. In addition, a seminar was held at Builth Wells on 31 January 2001. Over 200 people attended and took part in workshops based on the proposals of the consultation document.
Yr oedd yr ymgynghoriad cyntaf yn canolbwyntio ar weledigaeth ac egwyddorion Rhoi Cymunedau’n Gyntaf. Aiff yr ail ymgynghoriad â ni yn nes at ei weithredu. Amlinellodd fframwaith polisi gan wahodd cynigion ar feysydd i’w cynnwys yn y rhaglen. Lansiais yr ail ddogfen ymgynghori ar 6 Rhagfyr 2000. Dosbarthwyd copïau i dros 1,000 o sefydliadau. Hefyd, cynhaliwyd seminar yn Llanfair-ym-Muallt ar 31 Ionawr 2001. Mynychodd dros 200 o bobl gan gymryd rhan mewn gweithdai a oedd yn seiliedig ar gynigion y ddogfen ymgynghorol.
There were over 130 written responses to the second consultation exercise. These were received from the statutory, voluntary and community sectors. The response was positive. The following key issues arose from the second consultation exercise: the commitment to long-term funding was welcomed but it was stressed that funding needed to go beyond three years; procedures for obtaining funding should be as simple as possible; flexibility within the composition of partnerships was requested on the condition that, in any arrangements, community interests should come first; comprehensive guidance for partnerships was called for; and concerns were expressed that Communities First money might not be used imaginatively, but simply as match funding for Objective 1.
Cafwyd mwy na 130 o ymatebion ysgrifenedig i’r ail ymarfer ymgynghori. Derbyniwyd y rhain gan y sectorau statudol, gwirfoddol a chymunedol. Yr oedd yr ymateb yn gadarnhaol. Cododd y materion allweddol canlynol o’r ail ymarfer ymgynghori: croesawyd yr ymrwymiad i arian hirdymor ond pwysleisiwyd fod yn rhaid i arian fynd y tu hwnt i dair blynedd; dylai gweithdrefnau ar gyfer sicrhau arian fod mor syml â phosibl; gofynnwyd am hyblygrwydd o fewn cyfansoddiad partneriaethau ar yr amod y dylai buddiannau cymunedau ddod yn gyntaf mewn unrhyw drefniadau; galwyd am arweiniad cynhwysfawr i bartneriaethau; a mynegwyd pryderon efallai na châi arian Rhoi Cymunedau’n Gyntaf ei ddefnyddio mewn ffordd ddyfeisgar, dim ond fel arian cyfatebol ar gyfer Amcan 1.
Having consulted, it is now up to me to respond. I have given the maximum funding commitment of three years to the programme, as I appreciate that tackling deprivation in our most disadvantaged communities is a long-term issue. As you are aware, I am unable to commit beyond that point, but I stress that I see the continuation of funding as essential. In addition, I want to ensure that the funding streams are made as simple as possible so that we avoid unnecessary bureaucracy. The formation of partnerships will be covered in the detailed guidance to be issued in September 2001. I acknowledge that there will have to be a certain degree of flexibility in the formation of partnerships, and I stress that community involvement is the key to the process.
Wedi ymgynghori, fy nghyfrifoldeb i bellach yw ymateb. Yr wyf wedi ymrwymo arian i’r rhaglen am y cyfnod hwyaf posibl sef tair blynedd, gan y gwerthfawrogaf fod mynd i’r afael ag amddifadedd yn ein cymunedau mwyaf difreintiedig yn fater hirdymor. Fel y gwyddoch, ni allaf ymrwymo y tu hwnt i’r pwynt hwnnw, ond pwysleisiaf fy mod o’r farn bod ariannu parhaus yn hanfodol. Hefyd, yr wyf am sicrhau y gwneir y ffrydiau ariannu mor syml â phosibl er mwyn inni osgoi biwrocratiaeth ddiangen. Cwmpesir y gwaith o ffurfio partneriaethau yn y canllawiau manwl sydd i’w cyhoeddi ym Medi 2001. Cydnabyddaf y bydd yn rhaid cael rhywfaint o hyblygrwydd wrth ffurfio partneriaethau, a phwysleisiaf fod cyfranogiad cymunedau yn allweddol i’r broses.
The responses are currently being analysed by officials. I shall do my best to ensure that all consultation responses have been considered, so that we lay the best possible foundations for the programme guidance, which should be ready by September 2001. I propose to publish a summary of the consultation responses, which will identify the action that the Assembly is taking on each of them.
Ar hyn o bryd mae swyddogion wrthi’n dadansoddi’r ymatebion. Gwnaf fy ngorau i sicrhau yr ystyrir yr holl ymatebion ymgynghori, er mwyn inni osod y sylfeini gorau posibl ar gyfer canllawiau’r rhaglenni, a ddylai fod yn barod erbyn Medi 2001. Bwriadaf gyhoeddi crynodeb o’r ymatebion ymgynghori, a fydd yn nodi’r camau y mae’r Cynulliad yn eu cymryd ar bob un ohonynt.
As you will recall, I announced the names of the communities to be included in the programme on 18 June 2001 in the Gibbonsdown Children’s Centre in Barry. I issued a statement on this to the Assembly the same day. I would like to reiterate that the announcement on the areas selected for inclusion in the programme is not a decision on the allocation of funds. The communities that I announced are those that are eligible to draw down money, should they choose to put forward proposals, and provided such proposals meet key tests in relation to community engagement and consistency with other National Assembly programmes.
Fel y cofiwch, cyhoeddais enwau’r cymunedau a gâi eu cynnwys yn y rhaglen ar 18 Mehefin 2001 yng Nghanolfan Plant Gibbonsdown yn y Barri. Cyhoeddais ddatganiad ar hyn i’r Cynulliad ar yr un dydd. Hoffwn ategu nad penderfyniad ar ddyrannu’r arian yw’r ardaloedd a ddetholwyd i’w cynnwys yn y rhaglen. Y cymunedau a gyhoeddais yw’r rhai sydd yn gymwys i hawlio arian, pe dewisent gyflwyno cynigion, a chyhyd â bod cynigion o’r fath yn bodloni profion allweddol mewn perthynas â chysylltu â’ch cymunedau a chysondeb â rhaglenni eraill y Cynulliad Cenedlaethol.
There is a geographical spread of communities across Wales, and a total of 88 communities, covering 119 electoral wards, are eligible for support. In response to the consultation exercise, I have supported a number of imaginative proposals. These include a nomination from Powys County Council on communities in the Dyfi Valley. In this case, Communities First will target deprivation in a linked series of isolated rural communities in the area. I have also supported a nomination from Cardiff City and County Council. This is a community of interest proposal, which would bring within the Communities First programme the black and minority ethnic populations found in different parts of the city. The proposal combines spatial concentrations of populations with the special needs of our ethnic minority communities. I will keep the Assembly informed of the next steps in the process, such as how we put the money to work in the communities that have been identified.
Mae cymunedau Cymru wedi eu gwasgaru’n ddaearyddol, ac mae cyfanswm o 88 o gymunedau, sydd yn cwmpasu 119 o wardiau etholaethol, yn gymwys i gael cymorth. Mewn ymateb i’r ymarfer ymgynghori, yr wyf wedi cefnogi nifer o gynigion dyfeisgar. Ymhlith y rhain mae enwebiad gan Gyngor Sir Powys ar gymunedau ym Mro Ddyfi. Yn yr achos hwn, bydd Rhoi Cymunedau’n Gyntaf yn targedu amddifadedd mewn cyfres gysylltiedig o gymunedau gwledig ynysig o fewn yr ardal. Yr wyf hefyd wedi cefnogi enwebiad gan Gyngor Dinas a Sir Caerdydd. Mae hwn yn gynnig cymuned o ddiddordeb, a fyddai’n dod â’r poblogaethau croenddu a lleiafrifoedd ethnig a geir mewn rhannau gwahanol o’r ddinas o fewn y rhaglen Rhoi Cymunedau’n Gyntaf. Mae’r cynnig yn cyfuno mannau lle ceir poblogaethau wedi crynhoi yn ofodol gydag anghenion arbennig ein cymunedau lleiafrifoedd ethnig. Hysbysaf y Cynulliad yn rheolaidd ynglŷn â’r camau nesaf yn y broses, fel sut y defnyddiwn yr arian o fewn y cymunedau a nodir.
Communities First is an imaginative way of targeting the most deprived communities in Wales. The consultation exercises are central to its implementation. Communities First aims to tackle our three themes of social disadvantage, sustainable development and equal opportunities. The process must reflect our aims, and the consultation process that I have reported on does exactly that.
Mae Rhoi Cymunedau’n Gyntaf yn ffordd ddyfeisgar o dargedu cymunedau mwyaf difreintiedig Cymru. Mae’r ymarferion ymgynghori yn ganolog i’w weithredu. Nod Rhoi Cymunedau’n Gyntaf yw mynd i’r afael â’n tair thema sef amddifadedd cymdeithasol, datblygu cynaliadwy a chyfle cyfartal. Rhaid i’r broses adlewyrchu ein nodau, ac mae’r broses ymgynghori yr wyf wedi rhoi adroddiad arni yn gwneud hynny’n union.
I thank the Minister for the statement, along with last week’s announcement on the wards and communities that have been selected for this programme. As a result of that announcement, expectations have been raised further. I welcome the fact that some rural areas have been selected and that you will consider the possibility of linking isolated pockets in those areas. Do you agree that we need to look, not through Communities First perhaps, at another way of regenerating the rural areas that will be, and will continue to be, badly hit by the ongoing consequences of foot and mouth disease? I also welcome the community of interest centred in Cardiff. The proposal, which came in response to the consultation, suggests that we should look not only at geographical location, but also at communities of interest. I will be interested to see how that develops.
Diolchaf i’r Gweinidog am y datganiad, ynghyd â chyhoeddiad yr wythnos diwethaf ar y wardiau a’r cymunedau a ddetholwyd ar gyfer y rhaglen hon. O ganlyniad i’r cyhoeddiad hwnnw, codwyd disgwyliadau ymhellach. Croesawaf y ffaith bod rhai ardaloedd gwledig wedi’u dethol ac yr ystyriwch y posibilrwydd o gysylltu rhannau ynysig o fewn yr ardaloedd hynny â’i gilydd. A gytunwch fod angen inni edrych, nid drwy Rhoi Cymunedau’n Gyntaf efallai, ar ffordd arall o adfywio’r ardaloedd gwledig y bydd canlyniadau parhaus clwy’r traed a’r genau yn effeithio’n wael arnynt, ac yn parhau i effeithio’n wael arnynt? Croesawaf hefyd y gymuned o ddiddordeb a ganolir yng Nghaerdydd. Mae’r cynnig, a ddaeth mewn ymateb i’r ymgynghori, yn awgrymu y dylem edrych nid yn unig ar leoliad daearyddol, ond hefyd ar gymunedau o ddiddordeb. Bydd o ddiddordeb imi weld sut y datblyga hynny.
We have talked about identifying the 100 most deprived wards in Wales. More than 100 wards have been included in the programme, but only 88 communities. Does this mean that it will be possible to include more communities in the programme? That has always been the question: is Communities First a closed programme now that communities have been identified, or will it be possible to include more as, perhaps, circumstances change within those communities? Perhaps some counties have not identified any communities yet.
Yr ydym wedi sôn am nodi’r 100 ward mwyaf difreintiedig yng Nghymru. Cynhwyswyd mwy na 100 o wardiau yn y rhaglen, ond dim ond 88 o gymunedau. A olyga hyn y bydd yn bosibl cynnwys mwy o gymunedau yn y rhaglen? Dyna fu’r cwestiwn erioed: a yw Rhoi Cymunedau’n Gyntaf yn rhaglen gaeëdig yn awr bod cymunedau wedi’u nodi, neu a fydd yn bosibl cynnwys mwy wrth i amgylchiadau newid, efallai, o fewn y cymunedau hynny? Efallai nad yw rhai siroedd wedi nodi unrhyw gymunedau eto.
You have announced the overall amount of money available, along with the selected communities. A lot of expectation has been built up in those communities. However, they are still unsure about the guidelines on how to draw down the money. You said in your statement that, although you have selected the communities for inclusion in the programme, it is not a decision on the allocation of funds. That will depend on the proposals that come forward from the communities in question. Do you intend to allocate the money on a flat spend, allocating so much per community, or will it be distributed using a formula? If not, do you intend to wait until you receive the bids and consider it bid by bid? In that case, what will happen if a community’s bid is not ready yet? Will the money go to the first bids that you receive? How will you ensure that the money is evenly spread? Some communities are ready to draw down the money, whereas others still have work to do to prepare their projects. How will you ensure that they all receive an equal share? I welcome this statement. However, due to the expectation in communities, there is still a great deal of work to be done on this.
Yr ydych wedi cyhoeddi swm cyffredinol yr arian sydd ar gael, ynghyd â’r cymunedau a ddetholwyd. Codwyd disgwyliadau mawr yn y cymunedau hynny. Fodd bynnag, maent yn ansicr o hyd am y canllawiau ar sut i hawlio’r arian. Dywedasoch yn eich datganiad nad penderfyniad ar ddyrannu’r arian ydyw, er eich bod wedi dethol y cymunedau a gynhwysir yn y rhaglen. Bydd hynny’n dibynnu ar y cynigion a gyflwynir gan y cymunedau dan sylw. A fwriadwch ddyrannu’r arian mewn ffordd unffurf, gan ddyrannu hyn a hyn fesul cymuned, neu a gaiff ei ddosbarthu drwy ddefnyddio fformiwla? Os nad dyna’r bwriad, a fwriadwch aros nes ichi dderbyn y cynigion a’i ystyried gynnig wrth gynnig? Os felly, beth fydd yn digwydd os nad yw cynnig cymuned yn barod eto? A aiff yr arian i’r cynigion cyntaf a dderbyniwch? Sut y sicrhewch y rhennir yr arian yn gyfartal? Mae rhai cymunedau yn barod i hawlio’r arian, tra bod gwaith o hyd gan eraill i’w wneud i baratoi eu prosiectau. Sut y sicrhewch y caiff pob un ohonynt gyfran gyfartal? Croesawaf y datganiad hwn. Fodd bynnag, oherwydd y disgwyliad o fewn cymunedau, mae llawer o waith eto i’w wneud ar hyn.
I am mindful, particularly because of Members’ comments, of the difficulties faced by rural communities as a result of foot and mouth disease. We need to consider rural communities carefully within the Communities First programme. Partnerships and local authorities have started to make bids for communities that were not included in the 100 selected for the programme. I will take on board your comments and consider whether there is an opportunity to look at this area further.
Yr wyf yn ymwybodol, yn arbennig oherwydd sylwadau’r Aelodau, o’r anawsterau a wynebir gan gymunedau gwledig o ganlyniad i glwy’r traed a’r genau. Mae angen inni ystyried cymunedau gwledig yn ofalus o fewn rhaglen Rhoi Cymunedau’n Gyntaf. Mae partneriaethau ac awdurdodau lleol wedi dechrau gwneud cynigion dros gymunedau na chynhwyswyd ymhlith y 100 a ddetholwyd ar gyfer y rhaglen. Ystyriaf eich sylwadau a pha un a oes cyfle i edrych ar y maes hwn ymhellach.
In terms of the communities of interest, I was pleased with the Cardiff City and County Council bid. In discussion with the voluntary sector partnership last Friday, I raised an issue about communities of interest. If others want to get involved in the project I would want to give further consideration to extending communities of interest, particularly as representations have already been made by disability organisations. There is room for manoeuvre, and we must have a degree of flexibility in those areas.
O ran y cymunedau buddiant, yr oeddwn yn hapus gyda chynnig Cyngor Dinas a Sir Caerdydd. Wrth drafod â phartneriaeth y sector gwirfoddol ddydd Gwener diwethaf, codais fater ynghylch cymunedau o ddiddordeb. Os bydd eraill am gymryd rhan yn y prosiect byddwn am roi ystyriaeth bellach i ymestyn cymunedau o ddiddordeb, yn arbennig gan fod sefydliadau anabledd eisoes wedi gwneud sylwadau. Mae lle i hyblygrwydd, a rhaid inni sicrhau rhywfaint o hyn yn y meysydd hynny.
On the funding issue, the details of how funding will be allocated is yet to be decided. It will be incorporated in the guidance to be issued in September 2001. I appreciate that communities have different stages of development, and being on the list does not mean that communities will wish to apply for funds at this stage. Local authorities with multiple wards may decide on prioritisation, look at what other money is already within the system in those wards, and add additional money from Communities First, or they may look at wards where no money is currently being brought in. In voluntary sector discussions, I have given a guarantee that I will discuss the issue of developing guidance on funding and other issues prior to publication in September. In my discussion with the Welsh Local Government Association, I have indicated that I would like its views in this area. If Assembly Members, following my statement today, have any views about the allocation of funds, and how I could make the system more transparent and give people confidence in the way in which it is done, I would be delighted to take them into account when I develop the guidance over the summer.
O ran ariannu, mae’r manylion am sut y dyrennir arian eto i’w benderfynu. Cânt eu hymgorffori yn yr arweiniad a gyhoeddir ym Medi 2001. Sylweddolaf fod gan gymunedau wahanol gamau o ddatblygiad, ac nid yw’r ffaith eu bod ar y rhestr yn golygu y bydd cymunedau am wneud cais am arian ar hyn o bryd. Efallai y bydd awdurdodau lleol sydd â llawer o wardiau yn penderfynu blaenoriaethu, gan edrych ar ba arian arall sydd eisoes o fewn y system yn y wardiau hynny, ac y byddant yn ychwanegu arian o Rhoi Cymunedau’n Gyntaf, neu efallai yr edrychant ar wardiau lle nad oes ariannu’n digwydd ar hyn o bryd. Mewn trafodaethau â’r sector gwirfoddol, yr wyf wedi addo y byddaf yn trafod datblygu arweiniad ym maes ariannu a materion eraill cyn ei gyhoeddi fis Medi. Yn fy nhrafodaeth â Chymdeithas Llywodraeth Leol Cymru, yr wyf wedi nodi yr hoffwn ei barn yn y maes hwn. Os oes gan Aelodau’r Cynulliad, yn dilyn fy natganiad heddiw, unrhyw farn am y broses o ddyrannu arian, a sut y gallwn wneud y system yn fwy tryloyw gan ennyn hyder pobl yn y ffordd y caiff ei wneud, byddwn wrth fy modd yn ei hystyried pan ddatblygaf yr arweiniad dros yr haf.
This is probably the most important item on the agenda today, because it is an initiative that represents the cutting edge of the National Assembly and the new era of democracy in tackling poverty, deprivation and social exclusion. With the great Communities First initiative—on which I compliment the Minister’s good work—we have an opportunity to promote accessibility to life chances for people who have never had them before. That is why this is so important. It is in stark contrast to what I heard earlier from Phil Williams, who talked of perpetuating an industrial relic and the poverty surrounding it in my constituency. I regret the fact that he made that comment, bearing in mind that he comes from the Valleys.
Mae’n fwy na thebyg mai dyma’r eitem bwysicaf ar yr agenda, gan ei bod yn fenter sydd yn cynrychioli natur flaengar y Cynulliad Cenedlaethol a chyfnod newydd democratiaeth wrth fynd i’r afael â thlodi, amddifadedd ac eithrio cymdeithasol. Gyda menter fawr Rhoi Cymunedau’n Gyntaf—a chanmolaf waith da’r Gweinidog arni—mae gennym gyfle i hyrwyddo cyfleoedd i bobl na chafodd y cyfle erioed o’r blaen i wella ansawdd eu bywydau. Dyna pam bod hyn mor bwysig. Mae mewn gwrthgyferbyniad amlwg â’r hyn a glywais yn gynharach gan Phil Williams, a siaradodd am gadw crair diwydiannol a’r tlodi o’i amgylch yn fy etholaeth i am byth. Gresynnaf iddo wneud y sylw hwnnw, o gofio y daw o’r Cymoedd.
It is vital that we seize the initiative before us today and support it fully. The Minister has recognised these communities, and knows from the most in-depth consultation ever seen in Wales, that this is where we need to target resources. I congratulate her on the fact that she has brought in the special scheme in Cardiff for black and ethnic minorities, the Dyfi scheme proposed by Powys County Council, and also the Brynaman scheme. I am particularly grateful that she has recognised the situation in Ebbw Vale, where we face an economic holocaust as a result of the closure of the Corus works.
Mae’n hanfodol ein bod yn achub ar y cyfle sydd ger ein bron heddiw a’i gefnogi’n llawn. Mae’r Gweinidog wedi cydnabod y cymunedau hyn, a gŵyr yn sgîl yr ymgynghori manylaf a welwyd erioed yng Nghymru, mai dyma lle y mae angen inni dargedu adnoddau. Llongyfarchaf hi ar y ffaith ei bod wedi cyflwyno’r cynllun arbennig yng Nghaerdydd ar gyfer lleiafrifoedd du ac ethnig, cynllun Dyfi a gynigiwyd gan Gyngor Sir Powys, a hefyd gynllun Brynaman. Yr wyf yn arbennig o ddiolchgar ei bod wedi cydnabod y sefyllfa yng Nglynebwy, lle y wynebwn ddifodiant economaidd o ganlyniad i gau gweithfeydd Corus.
All in all, we all welcome this initiative. We all hope that it leads to the success that she undoubtedly projects. If this scheme requires funding beyond the three years—as I am certain that it will because, unfortunately, deprivation and poverty of this nature is not going to go away in such a short time—is the Minister be prepared to extend the funding to continue with the good work that I am sure we will see in the roll-out of this scheme in Wales?
At ei gilydd, croesawn y fenter hon. Gobeithiwn oll y bydd yn arwain at y llwyddiant y mae’n ddiamau yn ei ragweld. Os bydd angen arian ar y cynllun hwn y tu hwnt i’r tair blynedd—ac mi fydd, yr wyf yn sicr, oherwydd, yn anffodus, ni fydd amddifadedd a thlodi o’r natur hwn yn diflannu mewn amser mor fyr—a yw’r Gweinidog yn barod i ymestyn y cyfnod ariannu i barhau â’r gwaith da y byddwn yn sicr yn ei weld wrth i’r cynllun hwn gael ei gyflwyno yng Nghymru?
Thank you, Peter, for your kind comments. In acknowledging Ebbw Vale, we have acknowledged the devastation that the Corus closure will cause for communities there. In looking at the whole situation in Blaenau Gwent, a number of wards are already included and others will now come close in terms of deprivation. We realise that we have an uphill task in dealing with the community aspects of the Corus closure.
Diolch, Peter, am eich sylwadau caredig. Wrth gydnabod Glynebwy, yr ydym wedi cydnabod y llanastr y bydd cau Corus yn ei achosi i’r cymunedau yno. Wrth edrych ar y sefyllfa gyffredinol ym Mlaenau Gwent, mae nifer o wardiau eisoes wedi’u cynnwys a daw eraill yn agos erbyn hyn yn nhermau amddifadedd. Sylweddolwn fod gennym dasg anodd wrth ymdrin â’r agweddau cymunedol ar gau gweithfeydd Corus.
As regards funding, I cannot give a commitment beyond the three year cycle, as the final decision on future budget provisions, based on the recommendation of the administration of the day, will be up to the National Assembly. In introducing previous papers, I have said that this is a generational issue. It is not just a matter of giving money for three years and then running away. It will take a long time to build up some of these communities, helping them and building their capacity. The majority of Assembly Members will agree with me that Communities First provides a good sum of money, but it is a relatively small amount when you consider the whole of the Welsh block. To succeed in this initiative, the Assembly will wish to support this programme, as it deals with regenerating all our communities across Wales, and giving confidence back to those communities.
O ran ariannu, ni allaf ymrwymo y tu hwnt i’r cylch tair blynedd, gan mai cyfrifoldeb y Cynulliad Cenedlaethol fydd penderfynu’n derfynol ar ddarpariaethau cyllidebau yn y dyfodol, yn seiliedig ar yr hyn a argymhellir gan weinyddiaeth y dydd. Wrth gyflwyno papurau blaenorol, dywedais mai mater cenhedlaeth yw hwn. Nid mater o roi arian am dair blynedd yn unig ac yna rhedeg i ffwrdd ydyw. Cymer amser hir i gryfhau rhai o’r cymunedau hyn, eu cynorthwyo ac ychwanegu at eu gallu. Bydd y rhan fwyaf o Aelodau’r Cynulliad yn cytuno â mi bod Rhoi Cymunedau’n Gyntaf yn darparu swm da o arian, ond mae’n swm cymharol fach pan ystyriwch y cyfan o floc Cymru. Er mwyn llwyddo yn y fenter hon, bydd y Cynulliad am gefnogi’r rhaglen hon, gan ei bod yn delio ag adfywio ein holl gymunedau ledled Cymru, ac adfer hyder y cymunedau hynny.
Diolchaf yn gynnes i Edwina, nid yn unig am ei datganiad, ond hefyd am gydnabod anghenion cymaint o ardaloedd difreintiedig. Diolchaf hefyd am gynnwys ardaloedd yng Nghaergybi, Llangefni ac Amlwch yn Ynys Môn.
I warmly thank Edwina, not only for her statement, but also for recognising the needs of so many deprived communities. I also thank her for including districts in Holyhead, Llangefni and Amlwch in Anglesey.
Yr wyf yn gwybod bod Edwina wedi gweld y gwaith sydd wedi digwydd yn ward Tudur yn Llangefni. Mae’n ymwybodol o’r gwaith enfawr sydd yn cael ei wneud yno i adeiladu’r gymuned ac i sicrhau darpariaethau a gwasanaethau. Bydd y gwasanaethau hynny’n rhoi cyfle mawr inni ailadeiladu ysbryd cymunedol mewn ardaloedd sydd wedi dioddef yn enfawr dros y blynyddoedd o safbwynt problemau tai, cyffuriau a diweithdra uchel. Mae’r tair cymuned yng Nghaergybi, Amlwch a Llangefni yn rhannu’r un math o broblemau.
I know that Edwina has seen the work that has been done in the Tudur ward in Llangefni. She is aware of the enormous work that is being done to build up that community and to ensure provisions and services. Those services will give us a great opportunity to rebuild community spirit in areas that have suffered greatly over the years in terms of housing, drugs and high unemployment problems. The three communities in Holyhead, Amlwch and Llangefni share the same sort of problems.
Mae gennyf ddau bwynt sydd yn gysylltiedig â rhai o bwyntiau Peter Law. Yn gyntaf, pe byddai pob plaid yn gallu rhoi rhyw fath o addewid y byddent yn fodlon i’r arian hwn barhau wedi’r cyfnod o dair blynedd, byddai’n beth da i’r cymunedau hynny gael gwybod y gallai fod mwy o arian ar gael ar ddiwedd y cyfnod hwnnw.
I have two points, which are connected to some of Peter Law’s points. First, if every party could give some kind of assurance that they would be willing for this funding to continue after the three year period, it would be a good thing for those communities to know that there could be more money available at the end of that period.
Fy ail bwynt yw faint o hyblygrwydd fydd yn y system i ganiatáu i gymunedau a phartneriaethau cymunedol wneud cynigion sydd yn flaengar a gwahanol. Yn y gorffennol, un o’r problemau mewn ardaloedd fel hyn yw bod diddordeb cymunedol yn gwanhau pan sylweddolant y broses y mae’n rhaid iddynt ei dilyn i sicrhau’r arian. Gofynnaf i Edwina sicrhau bod digon o hyblygrwydd yn y cynlluniau i’r cymunedau allu cael arian ar gyfer y pethau sydd yn briodol iddynt hwy, nad ydynt efallai yn cyd-fynd ag unrhyw fformiwla, sydd yn aml yn amhriodol.
My second point is the amount of flexibility that will be in the system to allow communities and community partnerships to make progressive and different bids. In the past, one of the problems in areas such as this is that community interest weakens when they realise the process that they must follow to secure the money. I ask Edwina to ensure that there is enough flexibility within the schemes to enable communities to access money for things that are appropriate to them, which may not fit any formula, which is often inappropriate.
Ieuan made a valuable point about flexibility, because we cannot have preconceived ideas about what will work in communities. We have been too driven by wanting to see, perhaps from an official perspective, that, at the end of the day, there has been value for money and we think it works. Sometimes, communities need to experiment with what will work, because schemes do not necessarily work. We must give them the opportunity to experiment, use that money, be flexible with it and acknowledge that even if it does not work out, it was worth experimenting, because there was community participation. That is a good point about flexibility. We must not be drawn into thinking that there is a master plan to deal with community development, because, of course, there is not.
Gwnaeth Ieuan bwynt gwerthfawr ynglŷn â hyblygrwydd, oherwydd ni allwn goleddu syniadau rhagdybiedig am yr hyn a fydd yn gweithio o fewn cymunedau. Cawsom ein llywio yn ormodol gan y dymuniad i weld, efallai o safbwynt swyddogol, fod gwerth am arian wedi’i sicrhau yn y pen draw a chredwn fod hynny’n gweithio. Weithiau, mae angen i gymunedau arbrofi er mwyn canfod beth fydd yn gweithio, oherwydd nid yw cynlluniau yn gweithio o anghenraid. Rhaid inni roi’r cyfle iddynt arbrofi, defnyddio’r arian hwnnw, bod yn hyblyg gydag ef a chydnabod hyd yn oed os nad yw’n gweithio, y bu’n werth arbrofi, gan fod y gymuned wedi cymryd rhan yn y broses. Mae hwnnw’n bwynt da am hyblygrwydd. Ni ddylem gael ein darbwyllo i feddwl bod cynllun perffaith i ddelio â datblygu cymunedol, am nad yw hynny’n wir, wrth gwrs.
I would be grateful if other parties in this Chamber gave their commitment to the continuation of the funding and belief that we should focus on a programme like this. It might not be in our current format, because we will learn lessons as this programme is rolled out about what communities need and what we might want to consider in terms of future guidance. I would be happy if that commitment was given, because it would add strength to the whole budgeting process, giving us a focus for the additional work that we want to do.
Byddwn yn ddiolchgar pe bai pleidiau eraill yn y Siambr hon yn ymrwymo i barhau i ariannu rhaglen fel hon ac i barhau â’r gred y dylem ganolbwyntio arni. Efallai nad yw’n rhan o’n fformat presennol, gan y dysgwn wersi wrth i’r rhaglen hon gael ei chyflwyno ynglŷn â’r hyn sydd ei angen ar gymunedau a’r hyn y byddem o bosibl am ei ystyried o ran arweiniad yn y dyfodol. Byddwn yn fwy na bodlon pe rhoddid yr ymrwymiad hwnnw, gan y byddai’n ychwanegu grym at y broses gyfan o gyllidebu, gan roi ffocws inni ar gyfer y gwaith ychwanegol yr ydym am ei wneud.
In his first point, Ieuan referred to the excellent work that I witnessed in Llangefni, which brought together all the housing issues. That shows what Communities First can do. That is one pot, but we must consider all the other pots and how they work together, because there is core funding to consider. This is something additional. It is not to take away from any existing funding. This is to drive forward other agendas. It is important that we never lose sight of that point.
Yn ei bwynt cyntaf, cyfeiriodd Ieuan at y gwaith gwych y bûm yn dyst iddo yn Llangefni, a dynnodd yr holl faterion yn ymwneud â thai ynghyd. Dengys hynny yr hyn y gall Rhoi Cymunedau’n Gyntaf ei wneud. Dyna un gronfa, ond rhaid inni ystyried yr holl gronfeydd eraill a sut y gweithiant gyda’i gilydd, gan fod arian craidd i’w ystyried. Mae hwn yn rhywbeth ychwanegol. Nid yw’n tynnu oddi wrth unrhyw arian sydd yn bodoli eisoes. Ei nod yw gyrru agendâu eraill yn eu blaen. Mae’n bwysig nad anghofiwn y pwynt hwnnw byth.
I echo the words of the leader of the nationalist party in Wales on the issue of flexibility. I hope that you agree, Minister, that there should be no barriers to participation. One of my concerns is that the ward-based approach may be too inflexible to reflect the needs of some deprived communities. I am somewhat disappointed that communities in my constituency are not included in the first tranche. However, I seek your reassurance this morning that we will consider ways and means of ensuring that where communities have demonstrable needs, those needs can be met within a flexible approach to the Communities First programme, which I welcome and support. Will you consider how the qualification criteria can be flexed to ensure that communities the length and breadth of Wales, which are clearly deprived and in need within ward boundaries—perhaps because of the statistics required to justify their inclusion—are not precluded? Perhaps there are some leafier, better-off suburbs in those wards that raise their status, while not identifying clear needs that exist within those boundaries. I urge you to consider those issues and find a way forward so that we can ensure that areas in my constituency, which I do not wish to name, can be addressed. There are needs that should be addressed.
Ategaf eiriau arweinydd plaid genedlaethol Cymru ar y mater o hyblygrwydd. Gobeithiaf y cytunwch, Weinidog, na ddylai fod unrhyw rwystrau i gyfranogiad. Un o’m pryderon yw y gallai’r ymagwedd sydd yn seiliedig ar wardiau fod yn rhy anhyblyg i adlewyrchu anghenion rhai cymunedau difreintiedig. Yr wyf braidd yn siomedig na chynhwysir cymunedau o fewn fy etholaeth i yn y rhan gyntaf. Fodd bynnag, ceisiaf eich sicrwydd y bore yma y byddwn yn ystyried ffyrdd o sicrhau, lle y mae gan gymunedau anghenion amlwg, y gall yr anghenion hynny gael eu diwallu o fewn ymagwedd hyblyg tuag at y rhaglen Rhoi Cymunedau’n Gyntaf, yr wyf yn ei chroesawu ac yn ei chefnogi. A ystyriwch sut y gellir ystwytho’r meini prawf cymhwyso i sicrhau na chaiff cymunedau ar hyd a lled Cymru, sydd yn amlwg yn ddifreintiedig ac mewn angen o fewn ffiniau wardiau—efallai oherwydd yr ystadegau sydd yn ofynnol i gyfiawnhau eu cynnwys—eu heithrio? Efallai bod rhai maestrefi cyfoethocach, brasach yn y wardiau hynny sydd yn codi eu statws, sydd yn methu adnabod yr anghenion clir sydd yn bodoli o fewn y ffiniau hynny. Fe’ch anogaf i ystyried y materion hynny a chanfod ffordd ymlaen er mwyn inni allu sicrhau y gellir ymdrin ag ardaloedd o fewn fy etholaeth, nad wyf am eu henwi. Mae anghenion y dylid ymdrin â hwy.
The issue of sub-ward nominations is crucial. Some local authorities did not have any within the first 100 wards. I asked local authorities to consider those that were not within the top 100 and to look below ward level to see if they could bring some forward. The paper contains some suggestions of how we dealt with this issue. Tom, I will consider the issue of data at sub-ward level. That will not be in the light of the trawl of this first set of communities, but if we have cross-party commitment for this to be an innovative programme for future development within the Assembly, we could consider that when we move on to other communities. I could ask local government to undertake work in preparation for any other programmes that we may wish to run, so that those communities below ward level can be taken into account more.
Mae’r mater o enwebiadau is-wardiau yn holl bwysig. Nid oedd gan rai awdurdodau lleol unrhyw enwebiadau o fewn y 100 ward cyntaf. Gofynnais i’r awdurdodau lleol ystyried y rhai nad oeddent o fewn y 100 uchaf ac edrych islaw lefel y ward er mwyn gweld a allent ddod â rhai gerbron. Mae’r papur yn cynnwys rhai awgrymiadau o sut yr ymdriniasom â’r mater hwn. Tom, ystyriaf fater data ar lefel is-wardiau. Ni fydd hynny yng ngoleuni treillio’r gyfres gyntaf hon o gymunedau, ond os oes gennym ymrwymiad trawsbleidiol y dylai hon fod yn rhaglen ddyfeisgar i’w datblygu yn y dyfodol o fewn y Cynulliad, gallem ystyried hynny pan symudwn ymlaen i gymunedau eraill. Gallem ofyn i lywodraeth leol ymgymryd â gwaith paratoi ar gyfer unrhyw raglenni eraill y byddwn am eu rhedeg, er mwyn rhoi mwy o ystyriaeth i’r cymunedau hynny sydd islaw lefel ward.
We welcome this statement. As Peter Law said, it is extremely important. We are grateful to you for the way in which you also issued interim statements over the last few weeks. Further to the leader of Plaid Cymru’s point regarding the funding to reduce poverty, I give a commitment that the Welsh Conservatives will continue to support, as we did in government, the best method possible to reduce poverty throughout Wales.
Croesawn y datganiad hwn. Fel y dywedodd Peter Law, mae’n hynod o bwysig. Yr ydym yn ddiolchgar ichi am y ffordd yr ydych hefyd wedi cyhoeddi datganiadau interim dros yr ychydig wythnosau diwethaf. Ynglŷn â phwynt arweinydd Plaid Cymru am yr arian i leihau tlodi, ymrwymaf y bydd Ceidwadwyr Cymru yn parhau i gefnogi’r dull gorau posibl i leihau tlodi ledled Cymru, fel y gwnaethom pan oeddem mewn grym.
I note your concern about sub-ward nominations, which we will undoubtedly hear more about in Committee. However, I am sure that you will acknowledge the need for greater independent sector involvement, not only for its recognised contribution of progressive business practices, marketing and development skills, but also the way it can provide vital investment towards new community facilities.
Nodaf eich pryder ynglŷn ag enwebiadau is-wardiau, y clywn fwy amdanynt yn y Pwyllgor yn ddiamau. Fodd bynnag, yr wyf yn siŵr y cydnabyddwch yr angen i’r sector annibynnol gyfranogi’n fwy, nid yn unig oherwydd ei gyfraniad cydnabyddedig ym maes arferion busnes, a sgiliau marchnata a datblygu blaengar, ond hefyd am y ffordd y gall ddarparu buddsoddiad hanfodol tuag at gyfleusterau cymunedol newydd.
Will you undertake that Communities First moneys will not in any way be confused, either in the public imagination or in reality, with match-funding? That has not been mentioned in Committee and seems to have come out of the press. In your previous statements, you identified the communities that you regard as a priority, which we endorse. What further progress has been made in respect of the County Borough of Blaenau Gwent’s nomination of its wards in Ebbw Vale and also perhaps in Newport? You will know that there are many areas of Wales that are identified correctly in this index—sometimes in areas like Monmouthshire—as being areas that perhaps one would anticipate were prosperous but in reality include wards that greatly need the benefit of your advice and the Assembly’s money.
A addawch na chaiff arian Rhoi Cymunedau’n Gyntaf ei ddrysu mewn unrhyw ffordd ag arian cyfatebol, boed yn nychymyg y cyhoedd neu mewn gwirionedd? Ni chrybwyllwyd hynny yn y Pwyllgor ac ymddengys iddo ddod oddi wrth y wasg. Yn eich datganiadau blaenorol, nodasoch y cymunedau sydd, yn eich barn chi, yn flaenoriaeth, a chytunwn â hynny. Pa gynnydd pellach a wnaethpwyd o ran y wardiau yng Nglynebwy ac efallai yng Nghasnewydd a enwebwyd gan Fwrdeistref Sirol Blaenau Gwent? Byddwch yn gwybod bod sawl ardal yng Nghymru a nodir yn briodol yn y mynegrif hwn—weithiau mewn ardaloedd fel Sir Fynwy—fel ardaloedd y byddai rhywun yn disgwyl iddynt fod yn ffyniannus efallai ond sydd, mewn gwirionedd, yn cynnwys wardiau y mae dirfawr angen eich cyngor arnynt ac arian y Cynulliad.
Thank you for that contribution and for your party’s commitment to the continuation of the Communities First programme or a programme in a similar vein outside the three-year spending priorities. It is important that we look at the skills and expertise that exists within communities, not only in the voluntary sector but also in the private sector and in companies that may wish to help communities through being part of any funding arrangements or by helping in terms of personnel in developing projects within those communities. That is a useful idea.
Diolch am y cyfraniad hwnnw ac am ymrwymiad eich plaid i barhad y rhaglen Rhoi Cymunedau’n Gyntaf neu raglen o natur debyg y tu hwnt i flaenoriaethau gwario’r tair blynedd. Mae’n bwysig ein bod yn edrych ar y sgiliau a’r arbenigedd sydd yn bodoli o fewn cymunedau, nid yn unig yn y sector gwirfoddol ond hefyd yn y sector preifat ac mewn cwmnïau y gallent ddymuno cynorthwyo cymunedau drwy fod yn rhan o unrhyw drefniadau ariannu neu drwy gynorthwyo yn nhermau personél wrth ddatblygu prosiectau o fewn y cymunedau hynny. Mae hwnnw’n syniad defnyddiol.
There is no question of this money replacing existing money. There is a feeling that if a community has this money, some funding from other areas will be withdrawn. That is not the case. This will be additional money. Communities First money can be used to match other types of money if communities want that in order to make a larger project. It is appropriate that we should have the maximum use and flexibility of that money. It is important that you alluded again to the extension of communities into other areas. I am pleased that Ebbw Vale has been included in this, following the representations of the County Borough of Blaenau Gwent, but it is interesting to note that local authorities have been good in raising the profile of other areas that would not normally appear in the index but have brought their bids forward to ensure that we get across Wales with the Communities First programme.
Nid oes unrhyw bosibilrwydd y bydd yr arian hwn yn disodli’r arian presennol. Mae rhai yn teimlo os oes gan gymuned yr arian hwn, y tynnir rhywfaint o arian yn ôl o feysydd eraill. Nid yw hynny’n wir. Arian ychwanegol fydd hwn. Gellir defnyddio arian Rhoi Cymunedau’n Gyntaf i gyfateb â mathau eraill o arian os mai dyna ddymuniad y cymunedau er mwyn cyflawni prosiect mwy. Mae’n briodol y dylem allu defnyddio’r arian hwnnw i’r eithaf gyda’r hyblygrwydd mwyaf posibl. Mae eich cyfeiriad unwaith eto at ymestyn cymunedau i ardaloedd eraill yn bwysig. Yr wyf yn falch bod Glynebwy wedi’i gynnwys yn hyn, yn dilyn sylwadau Bwrdeistref Sirol Blaenau Gwent, ond mae’n ddiddorol nodi i awdurdodau lleol wneud gwaith da o godi proffil ardaloedd eraill na fyddai eu henwau fel arfer yn ymddangos yn y mynegrif ond maent wedi cyflwyno eu cynigion i sicrhau y cwmpaswn Gymru gyfan gyda’r rhaglen Rhoi Cymunedau’n Gyntaf.
One of the main targets of the Welsh Labour-led administration in the National Assembly is to attack social deprivation and inequality in Wales. We alone led the redistributive exercise in local government. I am glad to see that we are having more cross-party support on the redistributive exercise in the health service. Communities First is a unique initiative and I am pleased that you have agreed to include the top 100 electoral wards in the Communities First programme. That was crucial.
Un o brif dargedau gweinyddiaeth y Cynulliad Cenedlaethol dan arweiniad gwleidyddiaeth plaid Lafur Cymru yw goresgyn amddifadedd cymdeithasol ac anghydraddoldeb yng Nghymru. Ni yn unig a arweiniodd yr ymarfer ailddosbarthu o fewn llywodraeth leol. Yr wyf yn falch o weld bod gennym fwy o gefnogaeth drawsbleidiol ar yr ymarfer ailddosbarthu o fewn y gwasanaeth iechyd. Mae Rhoi Cymunedau’n Gyntaf yn fenter unigryw ac yr wyf yn falch ichi gytuno i gynnwys y 100 ward etholaethol uchaf yn rhaglen Rhoi Cymunedau’n Gyntaf. Yr oedd hynny’n holl bwysig.
I will make a few observations and then ask a question. I would be grateful if you would respond.
Gwnaf ychydig o sylwadau ac yna gofynnaf gwestiwn. Byddwn yn ddiolchgar pe byddech yn ymateb.
Janet Ryder’s point is important. There must be transparency regarding how this money is allocated. Equity and equality are important because, while equality might be a way forward, we cannot guarantee that equality of allocation will represent equity in terms of the priority areas. The guidance that will be issued in September must address that issue. We must also ensure that the guidance provides transparency as regards the additionality of the money that Communities First will provide for the most deprived communities.
Mae pwynt Janet Ryder yn un pwysig. Rhaid sicrhau tryloywder o ran sut y dyrennir yr arian hwn. Mae tegwch a chydraddoldeb yn bwysig oherwydd, er bod cydraddoldeb yn ffordd ymlaen efallai, ni allwn warantu y bydd arian a ddyrennir â chydraddoldeb yn golygu tegwch yn nhermau’r meysydd blaenoriaeth. Rhaid i’r arweiniad a gyhoeddir fis Medi ymdrin â’r mater hwnnw. Rhaid inni sicrhau hefyd y bydd yr arweiniad yn gofalu bod tryloywder o ran yr arian ychwanegol y bydd Rhoi Cymunedau’n Gyntaf yn ei ddarparu ar gyfer y cymunedau mwyaf difreintiedig.
I am sure that vital partners in this project—local government, health authorities, the Welsh Development Agency, the Wales Tourist Board and so on—regard Communities First as an opportunity to dust down their old plans and wishlists from previous generations, and as a pot of funds to allow them to implement their policies. However, it is vital that it is not those partners, as important as they are, but the communities that drive this programme. The communities should dictate which policies should be targeted, and they must decide on alternative priorities to those of the key partners in the regenerative process.
Yr wyf yn siŵr bod partneriaid hanfodol yn y prosiect hwn—llywodraeth leol, awdurdodau iechyd, Awdurdod Datblygu Cymru, Bwrdd Croeso Cymru ac ati—yn ystyried Rhoi Cymunedau’n Gyntaf fel cyfle i dynnu eu hen gynlluniau a rhestrau dymuniadau cenedlaethau a fu o’r archifau, ac fel cronfa a fydd yn caniatáu iddynt weithredu eu polisïau. Fodd bynnag, mae’n hanfodol nad y partneriaid hynny, er mor bwysig, sydd yn llywio’r rhaglen hon, ond y cymunedau. Y cymunedau ddylai bennu pa bolisïau y dylid eu targedu, a rhaid iddynt hwy benderfynu ar flaenoriaethau amgen i flaenoriaethau’r partneriaid allweddol yn y broses adfywio.
Finally, I will ask a question. I understand that, in the first instance, Communities First will be about providing capacity for communities to engage in the regenerative process. That would be the correct priority.
Yn olaf, gofynnaf gwestiwn. Deallaf mai prif ddiben Rhoi Cymunedau’n Gyntaf fydd ei gwneud yn bosibl i gymunedau fod yn rhan o’r broses adfywio. Dyna fyddai’r flaenoriaeth gywir.
Dafydd Elis-Thomas The Presiding Officer spoken in English p. 51
Dafydd Elis-Thomas Y Llywydd siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 51
Order. I am waiting for the question.
Trefn. Yr wyf yn aros am y cwestiwn.
Will the guidance on Communities First make clear that, while capacity is the priority, that the scheme is also about providing new services, facilities and so on and can be used as a lever for match funding?
A yw’r canllawiau ar Rhoi Cymunedau’n Gyntaf yn egluro, er mai creu capasiti yw’r flaenoriaeth, ei bod hefyd yn nod gan y cynllun i ddarparu gwasanaethau a chyfleusterau newydd ac ati ac y gellir ei ddefnyddio i bwyso am arian cyfatebol?
We must make clear that Communities First money will be used for what communities require. That is the premise. The communities will make the decisions; the partners will not drive the agenda and say, ‘Would it not be nice if we had an extra couple of million to top up our project funding?’ It must be based at that level.
Rhaid inni egluro y defnyddir arian Rhoi Cymunedau’n Gyntaf ar gyfer yr hyn sydd yn ofynnol gan gymunedau. Dyna’r amod. Y cymunedau fydd yn gwneud y penderfyniadau; ni fydd y partneriaid yn llywio’r agenda gan ddweud, ‘Oni fyddai’n braf pe byddai gennym ychydig filiynau yn ychwanegol i ariannu prosiectau?’ Rhaid ei seilio ar y lefel honno.
That is why it is important in the first year that we consider what type of funds we will use to support what. Communities are all at different stages of development. There will be some where nobody is involved in this work and others that are well advanced because local authorities have supported community workers there in the past. The clear message from the voluntary sector is that we must not throw out the experience or the initiatives that have been developed to date. You might want to build on those. However, at the same time, we must recognise that we must do much work in terms of capacity building.
Dyna pam ei bod yn bwysig yn ystod y flwyddyn gyntaf ein bod yn ystyried pa fath o arian a ddefnyddiwn i gefnogi beth. Mae pob cymuned ar wahanol gamau yn eu datblygiad. Bydd rhai lle nad oes unrhyw un yn rhan o’r gwaith hwn ac eraill sydd wedi cyflawni llawer am fod awdurdodau lleol wedi cefnogi gweithwyr cymunedol yno yn y gorffennol. Y neges glir o’r sector gwirfoddol yw na ddylem anghofio’r profiad na’r mentrau a ddatblygwyd hyd yn hyn. Efallai y byddwch am ddefnyddio’r rheini fel sail. Fodd bynnag, ar yr un pryd, rhaid inni gydnabod bod yn rhaid inni wneud llawer o waith o ran cynyddu capasiti.
We will make the guidance clear, as you outlined in your statement. I will also make clear that social and economic issues are key to community regeneration. It is not just about building a community centre or about training. It is about the integrated approach, about people making decisions about their housing, their health, their futures, their children’s education, and about how all that links into the system. It seems ambitious and wordy at this stage but, once the first year is over, we will start to see proper developments in this area, which will give people confidence.
Sicrhawn fod yr arweiniad yn glir, fel yr amlinellwyd yn eich datganiad. Egluraf hefyd fod materion cymdeithasol ac economaidd yn allweddol i adfywio cymunedau. Nid mater o adeiladu canolfan gymunedol neu hyfforddiant yn unig ydyw. Mae’n ymwneud ag ymagwedd integredig, pobl sydd yn gwneud penderfyniadau am eu tai, eu hiechyd, eu dyfodol, addysg eu plant, a sut y mae hynny i gyd yn cysylltu â’r system. Ymddengys yn uchelgeisiol ac yn amleiriog ar hyn o bryd ond, unwaith y bydd y flwyddyn gyntaf drosodd, dechreuwn weld datblygiadau gwirioneddol yn y maes hwn, a fydd yn rhoi hyder i bobl.
Transparency on funding is vital. We must ensure that we have an element of transparency so that people can feel confident. Equity and equality are difficult to balance in terms of dealing with the fund. I could pay out the same amount to all the communities, but that would not mean equality of treatment. Some communities may have already received millions of pounds of Government money and may want money to add to that so that they can work with it. Therefore, the equity argument is important. Should you get everyone to the same state or should you allow some to go further ahead?
Mae tryloywder ym maes ariannu yn hanfodol. Rhaid inni sicrhau bod gennym elfen o dryloywder er mwyn i bobl allu teimlo’n hyderus. Mae tegwch a chydraddoldeb yn anodd i’w cydbwyso o ran delio â’r gronfa. Gallwn dalu’r un swm i bob un o’r cymunedau, ond ni fyddai hynny’n golygu fy mod yn eu trin yn gyfartal. Mae’n bosibl bod rhai cymunedau eisoes wedi derbyn miliynau o bunnoedd gan y Llywodraeth a’u bod am gael arian i ychwanegu at hynny er mwyn iddynt allu gweithio ag ef. Felly, mae’r ddadl ynglŷn â thegwch yn bwysig. A ddylech sicrhau bod pawb yn cyrraedd yr un lefel neu a ddylech ganiatáu i rai fynd ymhellach?
Those are some of the difficult areas that we will have to struggle with in drawing up the guidelines. As I indicated earlier, if Members have views on that, I would be delighted to take them on board. It is important that we get an element of consensus about the guidelines so that we can see how they work. If, after we have issued the guidelines and people have made their bids and so on, we feel that we are not 100 per cent happy and realise that more money will be available in the future, we can revisit guidelines, as always. It is important that this is not set in stone, and that we realise that Communities First and our approach towards it will develop.
Dyna rai o’r meysydd anodd y bydd yn rhaid inni fynd i’r afael â hwy wrth lunio’r canllawiau. Fel y nodais yn gynharach, os oes gan yr Aelodau sylwadau ar hynny, byddwn yn falch o’u hystyried. Mae’n bwysig ein bod yn cael rhywfaint o gytundeb barn ar y canllawiau er mwyn inni allu gweld sut y gweithiant. Wedi inni gyhoeddi’r canllawiau ac wedi i bobl wneud eu cynigion ac ati, os ydym o’r farn nad ydym yn hollol hapus ac y sylweddolwn y bydd mwy o arian ar gael yn y dyfodol, gallwn ailystyried y canllawiau, yn ôl yr arfer. Mae’n bwysig i hyn fod yn hyblyg, a’n bod yn sylweddoli y bydd Rhoi Cymunedau’n Gyntaf a’n hymagwedd tuag ato yn datblygu.
I declare an interest as a member of Rhondda Cynon Taff County Borough Council. I welcome the Communities First initiative, especially its bottom-up approach, which will give communities ownership of it. It is important that we empower communities to take advantage of this. Brian Gibbons mentioned capacity, but often, these communities do not have that capacity. That is part of the training programme that should be part of Communities First. It is vital that Communities First goes on for three years. However, it must continue for longer than that. Communities have deteriorated into their deprived state over decades, therefore it is vital that this initiative is extended beyond its three years.
Datganaf fuddiant fel aelod o Gyngor Bwrdeistref Sirol Rhondda Cynon Taf. Croesawaf y fenter Rhoi Cymunedau’n Gyntaf, yn arbennig ei hymagwedd o’r bôn i’r brig, a fydd yn ei gwneud yn eiddo i’r cymunedau. Mae’n bwysig ein bod yn rhoi grym i gymunedau fanteisio ar hyn. Soniodd Brian Gibbons am gapasiti, ond yn aml, nid oes gan y cymunedau hyn y capasiti hwnnw. Mae hwnnw’n rhan o’r rhaglen hyfforddi a ddylai fod yn rhan o Rhoi Cymunedau’n Gyntaf. Mae’n hanfodol bod Rhoi Cymunedau’n Gyntaf yn parhau am dair blynedd. Fodd bynnag, rhaid iddo barhau am gyfnod hwy na hynny. Mae’r cymunedau wedi dirywio i’w cyflwr difreintiedig dros ddegawdau, felly mae’n hanfodol ymestyn y fenter hon y tu hwnt i’w chyfnod o dair blynedd.
I have two particular points. In your statement, you mentioned communities within wards. That has caused some confusion. Can you clarify that the whole ward is included in the index of multiple deprivation? Secondly, when is it likely that we will see the next tranche? Communities that are adjacent to the communities that have been chosen feel left out. Often, the ward boundary cuts across a street. How long must these communities wait to catch up with the others?
Mae gennyf ddau bwynt penodol. Yn eich datganiad, soniasoch am gymunedau o fewn wardiau. Mae hynny wedi achosi rhywfaint o ddryswch. A allwch egluro bod y ward gyfan wedi’i chynnwys yn y mynegrif amddifadedd lluosog? Yn ail, pryd yr ydym yn debygol o weld y rhan nesaf? Mae’r cymunedau sydd yn ffinio â’r cymunedau a ddewiswyd yn teimlo eu bod wedi cael eu hanwybyddu. Yn aml, mae ffin ward yn torri ar draws stryd. Am ba hyd y bydd yn rhaid i’r cymunedau hyn aros i gael yr un manteision ag eraill?
Whole wards are included in the first 100 of the index of multiple deprivation. My point related to the sub-ward level, within which there are difficulties. Some sub-wards are not clearly identified, and there is great need at some of these sub-ward levels. I will explore that issue further. Other Members have raised this issue, including Ron Davies in relation to Caerphilly, which I want to consider. On funding, some neighbouring wards will feel neglected, because they are, perhaps, number 123 in the index of multiple deprivation, and therefore have not been recommended. There is room for manoeuvre. Adjoining wards will see the benefit of the work that takes place in the neighbouring ward.
Cynhwysir wardiau cyfan ymhlith 100 cyntaf y mynegrif amddifadedd lluosog. Yr oedd fy mhwynt yn ymwneud â lefel yr is-ward, lle y ceir anawsterau. Nid yw rhai is-wardiau wedi’u nodi’n glir, ac mae rhai o’r lefelau is-ward hyn mewn angen dybryd. Ymchwiliaf i’r mater hwnnw ymhellach. Mae Aelodau eraill wedi codi’r mater hwn, gan gynnwys Ron Davies mewn perthynas â Chaerffili, ac yr wyf am ei ystyried. O ran ariannu, bydd rhai wardiau cyfagos yn teimlo eu bod wedi cael eu hanwybyddu, am eu bod, efallai, yn rhif 123 yn y mynegrif amddifadedd lluosog, ac felly heb eu hargymell. Mae lle i hyblygrwydd. Bydd wardiau cyffiniol yn gweld mantais y gwaith sydd yn digwydd yn y ward gyfagos.
To be honest, I have not given much consideration to the second tranche, This fund is for three years for the communities that have come in now. However, I must give further consideration to the ongoing programme in light of any budget decisions, as well as to the extension of the programme and an assessment of what we have done in some of these communities in three years. The point is that we might only have done a little. We might have to concentrate on them again, or perhaps develop best practice to help other wards that might not have benefited from Communities First money initially. Perhaps local authorities, other government schemes and other programmes could then help them in another way.
A bod yn onest, nid wyf wedi ystyried yr ail ran rhyw lawer. Mae’r gronfa hon ar gyfer y cymunedau a ddaeth i mewn yn awr am dair blynedd. Fodd bynnag, rhaid imi ystyried y rhaglen barhaus ymhellach yng ngoleuni unrhyw benderfyniadau cyllidebol, yn ogystal ag ymestyn y rhaglen ac asesu’r hyn yr ydym wedi’i wneud mewn rhai o’r cymunedau hyn ymhen tair blynedd. Y pwynt yw ei bod yn bosibl mai ychydig y byddwn wedi’i wneud. Efallai y bydd yn rhaid inni ganolbwyntio arnynt eto, neu ddatblygu arfer gorau i helpu wardiau eraill na fyddant o bosibl wedi elwa ar arian Rhoi Cymunedau’n Gyntaf i ddechrau. Efallai y gallai awdurdodau lleol, cynlluniau eraill y llywodraeth a rhaglenni eraill eu helpu wedyn mewn ffordd arall.
I declare an interest as a county councillor on Swansea City and County Council. I welcome this statement, particularly the wide geographical spread that has been achieved in identifying these wards. It is important to reiterate Peter Law’s point on the extent of consultation. The work that has been done on this consultation serves as a model for how we should consult and how we should involve people as widely as possible in terms of drawing up our programmes and delivering on our policies. I also welcome the innovation. We have already heard about the community of interest bid from Cardiff, and the Dyfi Valley bid in Powys, which is particularly useful in how we approach regeneration in rural areas, linking together deprived communities.
Datganaf fuddiant fel cynghorwr sir ar Gyngor Dinas a Sir Abertawe. Croesawaf y datganiad hwn, yn arbennig yr ardal ddaearyddol eang a gwmpaswyd wrth nodi’r wardiau hyn. Mae’n bwysig ailadrodd pwynt Peter Law ar raddfa’r ymgynghori. Mae’r gwaith a wnaethpwyd ar hyn yn fodel o sut y dylem ymgynghori a sut y dylem gynnwys pobl mewn ffordd mor eang â phosibl o ran llunio ein rhaglenni a chyflawni ein polisïau. Croesawaf innau hefyd y fenter newydd. Yr ydym eisoes wedi clywed am y cynnig o Gaerdydd o ran y gymuned o ddiddordeb, a chynnig Bro Ddyfi ym Mhowys, sydd yn arbennig o ddefnyddiol o ran sut yr ymdriniwn â’r gwaith o adfywio mewn ardaloedd gwledig, gan gysylltu cymunedau difreintiedig â’i gilydd.
Key tests are crucial to the scheme’s success. We need to ensure that bids are of a high quality and have been drawn from the community, as you have already said, Minister. We need to ensure that the bids and schemes in the various communities evolve at their own pace and involve people, with the maximum empowerment of local residents. We need to find ways of focusing the resources from mainstream programmes as part of those bids to try to pull in additional resources. This is not only in terms of using this money as match funding, but maintaining a dialogue with other authorities, such as local councils and health authorities, to ensure that their resources are also targeted at these deprived areas to complement the Assembly’s resources.
Mae profion allweddol yn holl bwysig i lwyddiant y cynllun. Mae angen inni sicrhau bod y cynigion o safon uchel ac wedi’u llunio gan y gymuned, fel yr ydych eisoes wedi dweud, Weinidog. Mae angen inni sicrhau bod y cynigion a’r cynlluniau o fewn y cymunedau amrywiol yn esblygu yn ôl eu pwysau eu hunain ac yn cynnwys pobl, gyda thrigolion lleol yn cael cymaint o rym â phosibl. Mae angen inni ganfod ffyrdd o ganolbwyntio’r adnoddau o raglenni prif ffrwd fel rhan o’r cynigion hynny er mwyn ceisio denu adnoddau ychwanegol. Nid yw hyn yn fater o ddefnyddio’r arian hwn fel arian cyfatebol yn unig, ond o gynnal deialog gydag awdurdodau eraill, fel cynghorau lleol ac awdurdodau iechyd, i sicrhau bod eu hadnoddau hwy hefyd wedi’u targedu i gyfeiriad yr ardaloedd difreintiedig hyn er mwyn ategu adnoddau’r Cynulliad.
I will take up that point about health resources with the Minister for Health and Social Services. It is a valid point about how we draw together the various strands. It is also important to recognise that some of these community of interest bids are innovative. They will be a strong, firm foundation for people to look at how they work, and to emulate that across Wales. It will be interesting. There will be a power swing in rural areas, to see how such bids could be used elsewhere across Wales.
Trafodaf y pwynt hwnnw am adnoddau iechyd gyda’r Gweinidog dros Iechyd a Gwasanaethau Cymdeithasol. Mae’n bwynt dilys am y ffordd y tynnwn yr elfennau amrywiol ynghyd. Mae’n bwysig cydnabod hefyd fod rhai o’r cynigion hyn o ran cymuned o ddiddordeb yn flaengar. Byddant yn sylfaen gadarn, gref i bobl edrych ar y ffordd y gweithiant, ac i efelychu hynny ledled Cymru. Bydd yn ddiddorol. Bydd newid o ran pŵer mewn ardaloedd gwledig, er mwyn gweld sut y gellid defnyddio cynigion o’r fath mewn mannau eraill ledled Cymru.
There are some valuable lessons to be considered. I agree with you regarding the broadening of the funding streams. We must be certain that when communities bid, they bid for what they really want. When local authorities put their bids to me, I have been concerned to ensure that the necessary consultation has taken place with other organisations. I am, as it were, auditing the responses from local government to ensure that proper consultation has taken place with other organisations so that the bid is correct and reflects what is wanted within the communities.
Mae rhai gwersi gwerthfawr i’w hystyried. Cytunaf â chi o ran ehangu’r ffrydiau ariannu. Rhaid inni fod yn sicr bod cymunedau, pan roddant gynnig gerbron, yn cynnig am yr hyn y maent yn ei ddymuno mewn gwirionedd. Pan fydd awdurdodau lleol yn rhoi eu cynigion ger fy mron, bûm yn ofalus i sicrhau yr ymgynghorwyd i’r graddau angenrheidiol â sefydliadau eraill. Yr wyf, megis, yn archwilio ymatebion llywodraeth leol i sicrhau yr ymgynghorwyd â sefydliadau eraill mewn ffordd briodol fel bod y cynnig yn gywir ac yn adlewyrchu’r hyn y mae’r cymunedau yn ei ddymuno.
I echo the comments of Tom Middlehurst and William Graham. Without any shadow of doubt, areas are being left out of this announcement. There are wards with enormous deprivation levels which are not in the first 100 simply because they have pockets of relative affluence within the same electoral area. There are several such wards in Monmouth. Despite general acceptance that such areas of deprivation exist, and a recent report which states that wages there are well below the national average, the Monmouth constituency lost out on the local government settlement, on Objective 1 and on continuation funding for a year’s learning provision, not directly because of the Assembly but because of the statistics used.
Ategaf sylwadau Tom Middlehurst a William Graham. Heb unrhyw amheuaeth, eithrir ardaloedd o’r cyhoeddiad hwn. Mae wardiau sydd â lefelau uchel iawn o amddifadedd nas cynhwyswyd o fewn y 100 cyntaf am y rheswm syml bod pocedi o gyfoeth cymharol o fewn yr un ardal etholaethol. Mae sawl ward o’r fath yn Nhrefynwy. Er gwaethaf y ffaith y cydnabyddir yn gyffredinol fod ardaloedd difreintiedig o’r fath yn bodoli, ac adroddiad diweddar sydd yn datgan bod cyflogau yno ymhell islaw’r cyfartaledd cenedlaethol, yr oedd etholaeth Trefynwy ar ei cholled o ran y setliad llywodraeth leol, o ran Amcan 1 ac o ran arian parhad ar gyfer darpariaeth ddysgu am gyfnod o flwyddyn, nid oherwydd y Cynulliad yn uniongyrchol ond oherwydd yr ystadegau a ddefnyddiwyd.
This money is supposed to go to areas of need.
Mae’r arian hwn i fod i fynd i ardaloedd anghenus.
Dafydd Elis-Thomas The Presiding Officer spoken in English p. 55
Dafydd Elis-Thomas Y Llywydd siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 55
Order. We are out of time on this statement.
Trefn. Mae ein hamser ar gyfer y datganiad hwn wedi dod i ben.
Why is there any difference between the way £12 million was allocated for the foot and mouth disease crisis, which was not based on areas of need, and this case, which apparently was? If you accept the need to explore and rectify matters, before the next tranche of money is allocated, you must find a way of ensuring that all areas of deprivation are given that money and not simply those areas which suit the Welsh Local Government Association.
Pam bod unrhyw wahaniaeth rhwng y ffordd y dyrannwyd £12 miliwn ar gyfer argyfwng clwy’r traed a’r genau, nad oedd yn seiliedig ar ardaloedd anghenus, a’r achos hwn, a oedd yn seiliedig ar hynny i bob golwg? Os derbyniwch yr angen i ymchwilio i faterion a’u hunioni, rhaid ichi ganfod ffordd o sicrhau y rhoddir yr arian hwnnw i bob ardal ddifreintiedig ac nid yn unig yr ardaloedd hynny sydd yn gyfleus i Gymdeithas Llywodraeth Leol Cymru.
Local authorities of whatever political persuasion submitted bids to me with regard to Communities First. I indicated that I would use the index of multiple deprivation for the first 100. We could see the logic in that strategy. I appreciate that some Members have problems with it. I thought so when we looked at it. I asked that other areas pertaining to other local authorities be identified. I was delighted that I was able to accede to the requests from all shades of local government in Wales to try to do something within each local authority area.
Cyflwynodd awdurdodau lleol o ba bynnag blaid wleidyddol gynigion imi o ran Rhoi Cymunedau’n Gyntaf. Nodais y byddwn yn defnyddio’r mynegrif amddifadedd lluosog ar gyfer y 100 cyntaf. Gallem weld rhesymeg yn y strategaeth honno. Sylweddolaf fod hyn yn broblem i rai Aelodau. Yr oeddwn yn amau hynny pan edrychasom arno. Gofynnais i ardaloedd eraill a oedd yn eiddo i awdurdodau lleol eraill gael eu nodi. Yr oeddwn wrth fy modd imi allu cydsynio â cheisiadau gan lywodraeth leol o bob lliw yng Nghymru er mwyn ceisio gwneud rhywbeth o fewn pob ardal llywodraeth leol.
When I indicate that I am going consider matters, I do so because that is the wish of Members; Members want me to say, ‘What more can I do at sub-ward level? What more can I do with money? Could I look at the schemes?’ That is the spirit in which I make my comments, David, not to try to be tripped up on the issue of foot and mouth disease. I will clarify the announcement regarding foot and mouth disease. When I made the announcement on the £12 million I was looking at the overall impact within Wales. I have indicated also that in the light of recent developments I have had discussions with various Ministers. We shall have to look much more closely at what has happened since. We shall have to make the appropriate decisions. We have tried to implement Communities First in a logical manner using the first 100, then asking local authorities and their partners which other communities they want to include in the first tranche. We cannot turn the world around in two, four or six years. We need a generational shift in the way in which we deal with money. As Geraint said, it took us almost a generation to reach this point. It will take another generation to get out of this situation. We must put the money in.
Pan nodaf fy mod yn bwriadu ystyried pethau, gwnaf hynny gan mai dyna yw dymuniad yr Aelodau; mae’r Aelodau am imi ddweud, ‘Beth yn fwy y gallaf ei wneud ar lefel is-ward? Beth yn fwy y gallaf ei wneud ag arian? A allwn edrych ar y cynlluniau?’ Yn yr ysbryd hwnnw y gwnaf fy sylwadau, David, nid er mwyn ceisio cael fy maglu ar fater clwy’r traed a’r genau. Egluraf y cyhoeddiad ynglŷn â chlwy’r traed a’r genau. Pan wneuthum y cyhoeddiad ar y £12 miliwn, yr oeddwn yn edrych ar yr effaith gyffredinol o fewn Cymru. Yr wyf wedi nodi hefyd imi fod mewn trafodaethau â Gweinidogion amrywiol yng ngoleuni datblygiadau diweddar. Bydd yn rhaid inni edrych yn llawer manylach ar yr hyn sydd wedi digwydd ers hynny. Bydd yn rhaid inni wneud y penderfyniadau priodol. Yr ydym wedi ceisio gweithredu Rhoi Cymunedau’n Gyntaf mewn ffordd resymegol drwy ddefnyddio’r 100 cyntaf, yna gofyn i awdurdodau lleol a’u partneriaid pa gymunedau eraill y maent am eu cynnwys yn y rhan gyntaf. Ni allwn droi’r byd ar ei ben o fewn dwy, pedair na chwe blynedd. Mae angen symudiad o ran cenhedlaeth yn ein ffordd o ddelio ag arian. Fel y dywedodd Geraint, cymerodd bron i genhedlaeth inni ddod i’r sefyllfa hon. Cymer genhedlaeth arall i ymryddhau o’r sefyllfa hon. Rhaid inni fuddsoddi’r arian.
Dafydd Elis-Thomas The Presiding Officer spoken in English p. 56
Dafydd Elis-Thomas Y Llywydd siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 56
Order. I am going to call the Chair of the Environment, Planning and Transport Committee. However, we are out of time on this statement. The reason is that preambles from all Members seem to have become the order of the day. I ask you to consider in future that following the calling of the main spokesperson—I assume you know who you are—for each party group, we shall have concise, short and sharp questions and informative answers, as always, from the Minister.
Trefn. Yr wyf am alw ar Gadeirydd y Pwyllgor Amgylchedd, Cynllunio a Thrafnidiaeth. Fodd bynnag, mae ein hamser ar gyfer y datganiad hwn ar ben. Y rheswm yw bod rhagymadroddi fel pe bai wedi dod yn rhywbeth arferol ymhlith yr holl Aelodau. Gofynnaf ichi ystyried yn y dyfodol, ar ôl galw ar y prif lefarydd—cymeraf eich bod yn gwybod pwy yr ydych—ar gyfer pob grŵp plaid, y cawn gwestiynau cryno, byr a miniog ac atebion llawn gwybodaeth, yn ôl yr arfer, gan y Gweinidog.
Thank you, Edwina, for the statement, and for visiting the Mount Estate in Milford Haven last Friday to open a resource centre funded by the Sustainable Communities programme. It is a deprived area. Your presence and interest were greatly appreciated by all concerned. You will have some understanding of the problems of deprivation in the part of Pembrokeshire north of the Haven. I welcome warmly your commitment to looking at the number of sub-ward communities nominated by—
Diolch, Edwina, am y datganiad, ac am ymweld ag Ystâd Mount yn Aberdaugleddau ddydd Gwener diwethaf i agor canolfan adnoddau a ariennir gan y rhaglen Cymunedau Cynaliadwy. Mae’n ardal ddifreintiedig. Gwerthfawrogwyd eich presenoldeb a’ch diddordeb gan bawb a oedd yn ymwneud â’r rhaglen. Byddwch yn deall rhywfaint am broblemau amddifadedd yn y rhan honno o Sir Benfro i’r gogledd o afon Cleddau. Croesawaf eich ymrwymiad i edrych ar nifer y cymunedau is-ward a enwebwyd gan—
Dafydd Elis-Thomas The Presiding Officer spoken in English p. 57
Dafydd Elis-Thomas Y Llywydd siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 57
Order. I called you especially and I asked you for a short question.
Trefn. Galwais arnoch yn arbennig a gofynnais ichi am gwestiwn byr.
As you know, Pembrokeshire includes two wards out of the 100 most deprived, which are both in the south of the county. There are none in the extensive area in the north. The local authority has nominated a number of sub-ward communities for that part of Wales. My officials are in discussion with the authority in order to provide me with an early indication of which sub-wards I can include in that area. Provided that we get the necessary information on those communities from the authority, I will add them to the list.
Fel y gwyddoch, mae Sir Benfro yn cynnwys dwy ward o’r 100 mwyaf difreintiedig, ac mae’r ddwy ohonynt yn ne’r sir. Ni cheir un yn ardal helaeth y gogledd. Mae’r awdurdod lleol wedi enwebu nifer o gymunedau is-ward ar gyfer y rhan honno o Gymru. Mae fy swyddogion wrthi’n trafod gyda’r awdurdod er mwyn rhoi syniad imi ymlaen llaw o’r is-wardiau y gallaf eu cynnwys yn yr ardal honno. Ar yr amod y cawn yr wybodaeth angenrheidiol ar y cymunedau hynny gan yr awdurdod, ychwanegaf hwy at y rhestr.
Daeth y Dirprwy Lywydd i’r Gadair am 11.04 a.m.
The Deputy Presiding Officer took the Chair at 11.04 a.m.
Dadl ar yr Undeb Ewropeaidd o dan Reol Sefydlog Rhif 6.5
Debate on the European Union under Standing Order No. 6.5
John Marek The Deputy Presiding Officer spoken in English p. 57
John Marek Y Dirprwy Lywydd siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 57
It is now 11.05 a.m. We have two one-hour debates. I must protect the full hour that is allocated for the minority party debate. I do not wish it to be adjourned. This debate will also last an hour, as 10 Members have expressed a wish to speak. That is apart from the First Minister and those who will propose the amendments. Today’s session will therefore run on until 1.05 p.m. Although I regret having to do so, I will impose time limits for this debate. The First Minister will have 12 minutes to open and to wind up the debate. Those who will propose the amendments will have five minutes in which to speak. Other speakers, of whom there are at least 10, will have three minutes. If we adhere to that, this debate can be restricted to an hour. We can therefore complete today’s business, although the session will over run until 1.05 p.m. With Members agreement, we will proceed.
Mae bellach yn 11.05 a.m. Mae gennym ddwy ddadl awr. Rhaid imi ddiogelu’r awr a neilltuwyd i’r ddadl blaid leiafrifol. Ni ddymunaf iddi gael ei gohirio. Bydd y ddadl hon hefyd yn parhau am awr, gan fod 10 Aelod wedi nodi eu hawydd i siarad. Mae hyn ar wahân i Brif Weinidog Cymru a’r rhai a fydd yn cynnig gwelliannau. Bydd sesiwn heddiw felly yn parhau tan 1.05 p.m. Er ei bod yn edifar gennyf orfod gwneud hynny, gosodaf gyfyngiadau amser ar y ddadl hon. Bydd gan Brif Weinidog Cymru 12 munud i agor a chau’r ddadl. Bydd gan y rhai a fydd yn cynnig gwelliannau bum munud i siarad. Bydd gan siaradwyr eraill, sydd o leiaf 10 mewn nifer, dri munud. Os cadwn at hynny, gellir cyfyngu’r ddadl hon i awr. Gallwn felly gwblhau busnes heddiw, er y bydd y sesiwn yn parhau tan 1.05 p.m. Gyda chytundeb yr Aelodau, awn ymlaen.
I have selected amendments 1, 2, 3, 4, 5 and 6 in the name of Jocelyn Davies.
Yr wyf wedi dethol gwelliannau 1, 2, 3, 4, 5 a 6 yn enw Jocelyn Davies.
Rhodri Morgan Prif Weinidog Cymru siaradwyd yn Gymraeg t. 58
Rhodri Morgan The First Minister spoken in Welsh p. 58
Cynigiaf fod
I propose that
Rhodri Morgan Prif Weinidog Cymru (parhad) siaradwyd yn Gymraeg ac yn Saesneg t. 58
Rhodri Morgan The First Minister (continued) spoken in Welsh and English p. 58
Gwerthfawrogaf y cyfle i drafod dau beth: yn gyntaf, perthynas Cymru ag Ewrop ac, yn ail, adroddiad blynyddol y Pwyllgor Materion Ewropeaidd. Mae nifer o bwyntiau i’w hystyried yn ystod y ddadl. A ydym wedi gwneud y cynnydd yr ydym eisiau’i wneud i gryfhau’r berthynas rhwng Cymru a’r Undeb Ewropeaidd? A yw Gweinidogion yn Llywodraeth y Cynulliad yn cymryd rhan yng nghyfarfodydd Cyngor y Gweinidogion, sydd yn gwneud penderfyniadau ar faterion Ewropeaidd? Pa mor effeithiol yw swyddfa’r Cynulliad ym Mrwsel? Beth yw effaith y penderfyniad diweddar i ymuno â Chynhadledd y Rhanbarthau Morol ac Ymylol? Pa gynnydd a wnaethpwyd o ran gweinyddu a gwario cronfeydd strwythurol Ewropeaidd?
in Welsh I am grateful for the opportunity to discuss two things: first, Wales’s relationship with Europe and, secondly, the annual report of the Committee on European Affairs. Many points need to be considered during the debate. Have we made the desired progress in strengthening the relationship between Wales and the European Union? Do Ministers from the Assembly Government take part in meetings of the Council of Ministers, which takes decisions on European issues? How effective is the Assembly’s office in Brussels? What is the effect of the recent decision to join the Conference of Peripheral and Maritime Regions? What progress has been made in administering and spending European structural funds?
Mae materion ehangach hefyd, megis ymestyn ffiniau’r Undeb Ewropeaidd. Pa effaith a gaiff hynny ar economi Cymru? Beth am y newidiadau yn strwythur llywodraethu Ewrop, megis y lleihad yn nifer y comisiynwyr pan fydd gan yr Undeb Ewropeaidd lawer mwy o aelod-wladwriaethau? Beth a fydd yn digwydd yn 2004 pan fydd cynhadledd rynglywodraethol yn penderfynu ar gyfeiriad cyffredinol yr Undeb Ewropeaidd wedi i’r ffiniau gael eu hymestyn?
in Welsh There are also wider issues, such as the enlargement of the European Union. What effect will that have on Wales’s economy? What about the changes in the structure of European governance, such as the reduction in the number of commissioners when the European Union will have many more member states? What will happen in 2004 when the intergovernmental conference will decide on the general direction of the European Union following enlargement?
It is key that we measure whether we are making the necessary level of progress. We have strengthened the Wales European Centre, which is an Assembly office, and we hope to strengthen it further in the near future, especially in terms of rural issues. There is a continuing improvement in the level of ministerial attendance at meetings of the Council of Ministers. The Minister for Rural Affairs, Carwyn Jones, is a regular attendee of agriculture council meetings. The Minister for Education and Lifelong Learning, Jane Davidson, has attended two youth and education council meetings with other UK Ministers. The Minister for Health and Social Services, Jane Hutt, has attended a health council meeting and has represented the UK at a meeting of the World Health Organisation. The Minister for Culture, Sport and the Welsh Language, Jenny Randerson, has attended a culture council meeting. That level of attendance is far higher than I had expected us to achieve during the first two years of the Assembly’s existence. I welcome that. However, we do not intend to rest on our laurels. We will further improve our record.
yn Saesneg Mae’n allweddol ein bod yn mesur a ydym yn cyrraedd y lefel cynnydd angenrheidiol. Yr ydym wedi cryfhau Canolfan Ewropeaidd Cymru, sydd yn swyddfa i’r Cynulliad, a gobeithiwn ei chryfhau eto yn y dyfodol agos, yn arbennig yn nhermau materion gwledig. Mae gwellhad parhaus yn lefel presenoldeb gweinidogion mewn cyfarfodydd Cyngor y Gweinidogion. Mae’r Gweinidog dros Faterion Gwledig, Carwyn Jones, yn mynychu cyfarfodydd y cyngor amaethyddol yn rheolaidd. Mynychodd y Gweinidog dros Addysg a Dysgu Gydol Oes, Jane Davidson, ddau gyfarfod o’r cyngor ieuenctid ac addysg gyda Gweinidogion eraill y DU. Mynychodd y Gweinidog dros Iechyd a Gwasanaethau Cymdeithasol, Jane Hutt, gyfarfod cyngor iechyd a chynrychiolodd y DU mewn cyfarfod o Sefydliad Iechyd y Byd. Mynychodd y Gweinidog dros Ddiwylliant, Chwaraeon a’r Gymraeg, Jenny Randerson, gyfarfod o’r cyngor diwylliant. Mae’r lefel honno o bresenoldeb yn llawer uwch na’r hyn a ddisgwyliais inni ei gyflawni yn ystod dwy flynedd gyntaf y Cynulliad. Croesawaf hynny. Fodd bynnag, ni fwriadwn laesu dwylo. Byddwn yn gwella ar hyn.
Members of the European Parliament can now work with members of the Committee on European Affairs. We must ensure that that co-ordination is improved, and that the current timetabling problem is solved.
yn Saesneg Gall Aelodau Senedd Ewrop yn awr gydweithio ag aelodau’r Pwyllgor Materion Ewropeaidd. Rhaid inni sicrhau y caiff cydweithrediad ei wella, ac y caiff y broblem bresennol o ran amserlennu ei datrys.
We also network in other ways with other countries and regions in trans-European bodies. Andrew Davies, the Minister for Assembly Business, is president of the TeleRegions Network, and the Committee on European Affairs proposed that we should join the Conference of Peripheral and Maritime Regions.
yn Saesneg Rhwydweithiwn hefyd mewn ffyrdd eraill â gwledydd a rhanbarthau eraill mewn cyrff traws-Ewropeaidd. Andrew Davies, y Trefnydd, yw llywydd y Rhwydwaith TeleRanbarthau, ac awgrymodd y Pwyllgor Materion Ewropeaidd y dylem ymuno â Chynhadledd y Rhanbarthau Ymylol a Morol.
On structural funds, the Assembly has made a good start in spending the structural funds that we have received in terms of Objective 1 and Objective 3. Those programmes have been running successfully since last year, with £200 million committed: £187 million under Objective 1 and £13 million under Objective 3. Objective 2 is a year behind for technical reasons. However, that is a £75 million programme as far as Wales is concerned. The other specialist structural funds bodies, EQUAL, LEADER+, INTERREG and URBAN, also have an impact on their specific issues. INTERREG in particular reminds us that the relationship with Europe also includes the relationship with Ireland. As our near neighbour it will probably be most significant for the development of the Welsh economy, whether that be in transport, on the environmental front or in economic development, because Ireland has had such a success story over the past eight years. A key target is to improve gross domestic product per capita in Wales. We are one of the poorest parts of the European Union as it is presently constituted. I was pleased that we had appreciative comments from Elisabeth Slavkoff, the Director of Operations for the UK and Ireland and the Nordic Countries, when she attended last week’s Objective 1 Programme Monitoring Committee, which is chaired by Christine Chapman. She told us that she was impressed by the projects that she had seen and the partnerships that are in place. We can therefore be proud of being a beacon of good practice. However, we will have a chance to discuss structural funds further in the short debate tomorrow.
yn Saesneg O ran cronfeydd strwythurol, dechreuodd y Cynulliad yn dda wrth wario’r cronfeydd strwythurol a gawsom yn nhermau Amcan 1 ac Amcan 3. Bu’r rhaglenni hynny yn rhedeg yn llwyddiannus ers y llynedd, gan ymrwymo £200 miliwn: £187 miliwn o dan Amcan 1 a £13 miliwn o dan Amcan 3. Mae Amcan 2 flwyddyn ar ei hôl hi am resymau technegol. Fodd bynnag, mae honno yn rhaglen £75 miliwn ar gyfer Cymru. Mae’r cyrff cronfeydd strwythurol arbenigol eraill, EQUAL, LEADER+, INTERREG ac URBAN, hefyd yn effeithio ar eu materion penodol. Mae INTERREG yn arbennig yn ein hatgoffa fod y berthynas ag Ewrop yn cynnwys y berthynas ag Iwerddon. Fel ein cymydog agos, efallai mai’r berthynas honno fydd yr un fwyaf arwyddocaol ar gyfer datblygu economi Cymru, pa un a yw hynny mewn trafnidiaeth, ar yr agwedd amgylcheddol neu ar ddatblygu economaidd, gan fod Iwerddon wedi bod mor llwyddiannus dros yr wyth mlynedd diwethaf. Targed allweddol yw gwella cynnyrch mewnwladol crynswth y pen yng Nghymru. Ni yw un o fannau tlotaf yr Undeb Ewropeaidd yn ôl ei aelodaeth ar hyn o bryd. Yr oeddwn yn falch inni gael sylwadau gwerthfawrogol gan Elisabeth Slavkoff, Cyfarwyddwr Gweithrediadau ar gyfer y DU ac Iwerddon a’r Gwledydd Nordig, pan fynychodd Bwyllgor Monitro Rhaglen Amcan 1 yr wythnos diwethaf, gyda Christine Chapman yn cadeirio. Dywedodd wrthym ei bod yn fodlon â’r prosiectau a welodd a’r partneriaethau sydd ar waith. Gallwn felly fod yn falch o fod yn esiampl o arfer da. Fodd bynnag, cawn gyfle pellach i drafod cronfeydd strwythurol yn y ddadl fer yfory.
On European Union enlargement, that has a particular impact on Wales because countries such as Poland, Hungary and the Czech Republic in particular, will take over the slot that Wales had, when Britain joined the EU in 1973, of providing the lowest cost production location for multinationals. Therefore, we must take a strong interest in that. The issue for us is do we twin with regions similar to those in Wales in Poland and the Czech Republic? We may want to do that. The Polish and Czech ambassadors have visited Wales this month to ask us that question. The key issue is do we twin with areas that will go through the fires of hell that we have been through over the past 30 years, namely the areas of cold steel production such as Silesia in Poland, or do we twin with the growth sectors of the Polish and Czech economies, which have great strength in high technology industries? Alternatively, do we twin with the one type of region in Poland and the other type in the Czech Republic? These are matters on which we will have to decide. These countries certainly want to twin with Wales because they think that they have lessons to learn from our experiences.
yn Saesneg O ran ymestyn yr Undeb Ewropeaidd, bydd hynny’n effeithio’n arbennig ar Gymru gan y bydd gwledydd megis Gwlad Pŵyl, Hwngari a’r Weriniaeth Tsiec yn arbennig, yn cymryd lle Cymru, pan ymunodd Prydain â’r UE yn 1973, o gynnig y lleoliad â’r costau cynhyrchu isaf ar gyfer cwmnïau amlwladol. Felly, rhaid inni gymryd diddordeb mawr yn hynny. Y mater i ni yw a ydym yn gefeillio â rhanbarthau tebyg i ranbarthau Cymru yng Ngwlad Pŵyl neu’r Weriniaeth Tsiec? Efallai y byddwn am wneud hynny. Ymwelodd llysgenhadon Gwlad Pŵyl a’r Weriniaeth Tsiec â Chymru y mis hwn i ofyn y cwestiwn hwnnw inni. Y mater allweddol yw a ydym yn gefeillio ag ardaloedd a aiff drwy’r uffern y buom ni drwyddi dros y 30 mlynedd diwethaf, sef yr ardaloedd cynhyrchu dur oer megis Silesia yng Ngwlad Pŵyl, neu a ydym yn gefeillio â sectorau twf yn economïau Pŵyl a Tsiec, sydd yn gadarn iawn yn y diwydiannau uwchdechnoleg? Ar y llaw arall, a ydym yn gefeillio ag un math o ranbarth yng Ngwlad Pŵyl a math arall yng Ngweriniaeth Tsiec? Dyma faterion y bydd angen inni benderfynu arnynt. Mae’r gwledydd hyn yn bendant am efeillio â Chymru oherwydd y credant fod ganddynt wersi i’w dysgu o’n profiadau ni.
We would like to think that after 2006 we will no longer qualify for Objective 1 status because we will not be poor enough to do so. That is our aim. It would be nice to have the money, but you do not want to be in a sufficiently poor economic state to qualify for it. Let us hope that we will not qualify for Objective 1 status after 2006. However, let us also hope that there will be transitional funding to enable us to cope with the end of Objective 1 funding. The money coming to Wales would then taper off, as has happened in this economic round for regions that lost out and did not receive further Objective 1 funding though they received it previously.
yn Saesneg Hoffem gredu na fyddwn bellach yn gallu hawlio statws Amcan 1 ar ôl 2006 gan na fyddwn yn ddigon tlawd i wneud hynny. Dyna ein nod. Byddai’n braf cael yr arian, ond nid ydych am fod mewn sefyllfa economaidd ddigon tlawd i fod â hawl iddo. Gobeithiwn na fyddwn yn gymwys ar gyfer statws Amcan 1 ar ôl 2006. Fodd bynnag, gobeithio hefyd y bydd arian trosiannol ar gael i’n galluogi i ymdopi â diwedd arian Amcan 1. Byddai’r arian a ddaw i Gymru wedyn yn arafu, fel y digwyddodd yn y cylch economaidd hwn yn y rhanbarthau na chawsant ragor o arian Amcan 1 er iddynt ei dderbyn o’r blaen.
With regard to the intergovernmental conference in 2004, that will be a testbed for the Assembly’s and Wales’s influence in Europe. The conference has a fairly simple job. It will decide which issues are best determined at a European level, which issues are right for determination at member state level and which issues are best determined at the next level down, whether you call that the level of a region, a province, a Land in Germany, or a small nation—as we, the Catalans, the Basques, the Galicians and the Scots would call it. The conference is to decide a charter of competencies for Europe immediately before enlargement is likely to take place, subject to solving the Irish problem. What the Germans call a constitution for Europe we tend to call a charter of competencies. That is the more pragmatic, British way. Given that we do not have a written constitution, we are not used to written constitutions.
yn Saesneg Bydd y gynhadledd rynglywodraethol yn 2004, yn brawf o ddylanwad y Cynulliad a Chymru yn Ewrop. Bydd swyddogaeth weddol syml i’r gynhadledd. Bydd yn dewis pa faterion fyddai orau i’w penderfynu ar lefel Ewrop, pa faterion sydd yn briodol i’w penderfynu ar lefel aelod-wladwriaeth a pha faterion sydd orau i’w penderfynu ar y lefel nesaf i lawr, pa un a yw hynny ar lefel rhanbarth, talaith, Land yn yr Almaen, neu genedl fechan––fel y byddem ni, y Catalaniaid, y Basgiaid, y Galiciaid a’r Albanwyr yn ei alw. Y gynhadledd fydd yn penderfynu ar y siarter o alluoedd ar gyfer Ewrop yn union cyn y bydd yr Undeb yn debygol o ehangu, yn amodol ar ddatrys y broblem Wyddelig. Mae’r hyn a elwir yn gyfansoddiad i Ewrop gan yr Almaenwyr yn dueddol o gael ei alw’n siarter galluoedd gennym ni. Dyna’r ffordd fwy pragmataidd, Brydeinig. Gan nad oes gennym gyfansoddiad ysgrifenedig, nid ydym wedi arfer â chyfansoddiadau ysgrifenedig.
Finally, I must refer to the euro debate, because I know that it is close to the hearts of Conservative Members. The euro will have a major impact on Wales when the coinage comes into circulation. For example, people living near the A55 and the M4 in Wales, or people who may meet French and Italian people visiting Wales during the next six nations rugby tournament, will become aware of euro coins being used. People will not expect to have to change currency because they will be told that they will never have to do so again once the euro comes into physical use in the first quarter of next year. It will have a major impact in Wales because we are so close to Europe and we have five ferry ports to the Republic of Ireland.
yn Saesneg Yn olaf, rhaid imi gyfeirio at ddadl yr ewro, oherwydd gwn ei fod yn agos at galon yr Aelodau Ceidwadol. Caiff yr ewro ddylanwad mawr ar Gymru pan ddaw’r arian i gylchrediad. Er enghraifft, bydd pobl sydd yn byw ger yr A55 a’r M4 yng Nghymru, neu bobl fydd yn cwrdd ag ymwelwyr o Ffrainc neu’r Eidal yn ystod pencampwriaeth nesaf y chwe gwlad, yn dod yn ymwybodol o arian bach yr ewro yn cael ei ddefnyddio. Ni fydd pobl yn disgwyl gorfod newid arian gan y dywedir wrthynt na fydd angen gwneud hynny fyth eto unwaith y daw’r ewro i ddefnydd ymarferol yn ystod chwarter olaf y flwyddyn nesaf. Caiff ddylanwad mawr ar Gymru gan ein bod mor agos at Ewrop ac mae gennym bum porthladd i Weriniaeth Iwerddon.
These are the areas where we want to see Wales playing an important and leading role. I will return to the question of the recommendations on the amendments in my closing speech.
yn Saesneg Dyma’r meysydd lle yr ydym am weld Cymru yn chwarae rhan bwysig a blaengar ynddynt. Dychwelaf at fater yr argymhellion ar y gwelliannau yn fy araith i gloi.
John Marek The Deputy Presiding Officer spoken in English p. 62
John Marek Y Dirprwy Lywydd siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 62
I will allow up to an extra minute for Members who accept interventions. I do not want to stymie the debate by limiting Members to contributions of three minutes, in which they might feel that they do not have time to accept interventions.
Caniatâf hyd at funud yn ychwanegol ar gyfer yr Aelodau sydd yn derbyn ymyriadau. Nid wyf am rwystro’r ddadl drwy gyfyngu Aelodau i gyfraniadau o dri munud, lle y gallent deimlo nad oes ganddynt amser i dderbyn ymyriadau.
Cynigiaf y gwelliannau canlynol yn enw Jocelyn Davies. Gwelliant 1: ychwaneger ar ddiwedd pwynt 2:
I propose the following amendments in the name of Jocelyn Davies. Amendment 1: add at the end of point 2:
Ieuan Wyn Jones (parhad) siaradwyd yn Gymraeg t. 63
Ieuan Wyn Jones (continued) spoken in Welsh p. 63
Cynigiaf welliant 2. Ychwanegu ar ddiwedd pwynt 3:
I propose amendment 2. Add at the end of point 3:
Ieuan Wyn Jones (parhad) siaradwyd yn Gymraeg t. 63
Ieuan Wyn Jones (continued) spoken in Welsh p. 63
Cynigiaf welliant 3. Dileu pwynt 4, ac ychwanegu yn ei le:
I propose amendment 3. Delete point 4 and replace with:
Ieuan Wyn Jones (parhad) siaradwyd yn Gymraeg t. 63
Ieuan Wyn Jones (continued) spoken in Welsh p. 63
Cynigiaf welliant 4. Ychwanegu fel pwynt newydd ar ddiwedd y cynnig:
I propose amendment 4. Add as new point at the end of the motion:
Ieuan Wyn Jones (parhad) siaradwyd yn Gymraeg t. 63
Ieuan Wyn Jones (continued) spoken in Welsh p. 63
Cynigiaf welliant 5. Ychwanegu pwynt newydd ar ddiwedd y cynnig:
I propose amendment 5. Add new point at the end of the motion:
Ieuan Wyn Jones (parhad) siaradwyd yn Gymraeg t. 63
Ieuan Wyn Jones (continued) spoken in Welsh p. 63
Cynigiaf welliant 6. Ychwanegu pwynt newydd ar ddiwedd y cynnig:
I propose amendment 6. Add new point at the end of the motion:
Ieuan Wyn Jones (parhad) siaradwyd yn Gymraeg ac yn Saesneg t. 63
Ieuan Wyn Jones (continued) spoken in Welsh and English p. 63
I ddechrau, ymddiheuraf am na fyddaf yn gallu derbyn ymyriadau. Dim ond pum munud sydd gennyf i drafod nifer o welliannau. Yr wyf hefyd am ddiogelu’r amser a bennwyd ar gyfer ein dadl plaid leiafrifol yn nes ymlaen.
in Welsh First, I apologise that I will not be able to take interventions. I only have five minutes to discuss a number of amendments. I also wish to protect the time allocated for our minority party debate later.
Croesawaf y cyfle i drafod perthynas Cymru â’r Undeb Ewropeaidd a gwaith y Pwyllgor Materion Ewropeaidd. Mae hwn yn fater o’r pwys mwyaf i’n dyfodol fel cenedl. Mae’n bwysig inni drafod y gwelliannau yn ystod y ddadl, ynghyd â chyfeirio’n fras at rai o ddigwyddiadau’r llwyfan Ewropeaidd.
in Welsh I welcome the opportunity to discuss Wales’s relationship with the European Union and the work of the Committee on European Affairs. This is a most important matter in terms of our future as a nation. It is important that we discuss the amendments during this debate, and also refer briefly to some of the events taking place on the European stage.
Cyfeiriodd Rhodri at nifer o ddatblygiadau pwysig ar y llwyfan Ewropeaidd. Un enghraifft yw’r ffaith fod Gweriniaeth Iwerddon wedi gwrthod cytundeb Nice mewn refferendwm diweddar, a goblygiadau hynny i’r Undeb Ewropeaidd. Yr wyf wedi dweud ar sawl achlysur ei fod yn fater o bryder na chafodd y Cynulliad gyfle mewn Cyfarfod Llawn i drafod goblygiadau cytundeb Nice cyn y cytunwyd arno rai misoedd yn ôl. Ni chawsom ychwaith ddadl ar ddyfodol yr ewro. Pe bai Prydain yn gwneud cais i ymuno â’r ewro ar hyn o bryd, byddai problemau yn deillio o sefyllfa’r economi a’r berthynas rhwng gwerth y bunt a’r ewro. Serch hynny, mae’n bwysig bod y trafodaethau ar oblygiadau ymuno â’r ewro yn dechrau yn fuan. Cydnabu Rhodri’r angen i gynnal trafodaeth yn y Cynulliad a gobeithiaf y bydd y Trefnydd yn trefnu bod hynny’n digwydd yn fuan. Ni fydd y drafodaeth yn un arwynebol ac academaidd. Bydd yr ewro yn cael effaith ddwys ar yr economi, o safbwynt gweithgynhyrchu, amaeth a thwristiaeth. Mae’r diwydiannau hynny’n dioddef ar hyn o bryd oherwydd gwerth uchel y bunt.
in Welsh Rhodri referred to a number of important developments on the European stage. One example is the implications for the European Union of the Republic of Ireland’s rejection of the Nice treaty in a recent referendum. I have stated on several occasions that it is a matter of concern that the Assembly did not have an opportunity to discuss the implications of the Nice treaty in Plenary before it was agreed some months ago. Neither did we have a debate on the future of the euro. If Britain were to make an application to join the euro now, problems would arise from the state of the economy and the relationship between the value of the pound and the euro. Nevertheless, it is important that the discussion on the implications of joining the euro begin shortly. Rhodri acknowledged the need for such a discussion in the Assembly and I hope that the Minister for Assembly Business arranges for it to take place shortly. The discussion will not be superficial and academic. The euro will have a deep impact on the economy, in terms of manufacturing, agriculture and tourism. Those industries are suffering at present due to the high value of the pound.
Mae Plaid Cymru am weld mwy o gydweithredu ar y lefel Ewropeaidd yng nghyd-destun polisïau tramor ac amddiffyn. Mae’r hyn a ddigwyddodd yn yr hen Iwgoslafia, a’r hyn sydd yn digwydd yn Macedonia ar hyn o bryd, yn dangos y dylai gwledydd yr Undeb Ewropeaidd gynyddu’r cydweithrediad rhyngddynt. Mae angen dybryd i ddemocrateiddio sefydliadau’r Undeb Ewropeaidd. Rhai o wendidau’r Undeb yw’r holl fiwrocratiaeth a’r ffaith nad oes ganddo systemau democrataidd i sicrhau bod ei sefydliadau yn atebol i Senedd Ewrop. Felly, mae angen rhoi mwy o bwerau i Senedd Ewrop yn y cyd-destun hwnnw.
in Welsh Plaid Cymru wants to see more co-operation at the European level in terms of foreign and defence policies. Events in the former Yugoslavia, and current events in Macedonia, show that there should be increased co-operation between the countries of the European Union. There is a desperate need to democratise the institutions of the European Union. Some of the Union’s weaknesses are the vast amount of bureaucracy and the fact that it does not have democratic procedures in place to ensure that its institutions are accountable to the European Parliament. Therefore, the European Parliament needs more powers in that respect.
Trof at welliant 1. Yn ogystal â bod yn awyddus i weld Gweinidogion y Cabinet yn mynd i gyfarfodydd Cyngor y Gweinidogion, mae Plaid Cymru hefyd am eu gweld yn llefaru a phleidleisio ar ran Cymru, pan fo hynny’n briodol. O dan y trefniant presennol, maent yno, yn swyddogol, i gynrychioli’r Deyrnas Gyfunol. Pwrpas gwelliant 1 yw sicrhau bod hynny’n digwydd pan fo materion pwysig a fyddai’n effeithio ar Gymru yn cael eu trafod yn Ewrop. Er enghraifft, gwyddom am y trafodaethau presennol ynglŷn â dyfodol cymorthdaliadau defaid. Y mae’n bwysig ein bod yn cwblhau’r trafodaethau hynny yn llwyddiannus.
in Welsh I turn to amendment 1. Plaid Cymru is not only eager to see Cabinet Ministers attending the Council of the Ministers, but also to see them speaking and voting on behalf of Wales, when appropriate. Under the current arrangement, they are there in an official capacity to represent the United Kingdom. The purpose of amendment 1 is to ensure that that happens when important issues affecting Wales are under discussion in Europe. For example, we are aware of the current discussions on the future of sheep subsidies. It is important that we successfully complete those discussions.
Y mae gwelliannau 2 a 4 yn ymwneud â swyddogaeth y Pwyllgor Materion Ewropeaidd. Tra bo’r cynnig ger ein bron yn cyfeirio at raglenni cronfeydd strwythurol Ewrop, nid oes hawl gan y Pwyllgor i’w trafod ar hyn o bryd. Mae hyn—fel y crybwyllodd sawl Aelod—yn hurt, a dylem ei nodi.
in Welsh Amendments 2 and 4 concern the work of the Committee on European Affairs. While the motion before us refers to the European structural fund programmes, the Committee has no right to discuss them at present. This—as many Members have stated—is ridiculous, and should be noted.
Croesawn y newid yng ngwaith y Pwyllgor o’i gymharu â’r flwyddyn flaenorol. Croesawn fod rhai o’r awgrymiadau a gynigiwyd gennym wedi eu derbyn, gan gynnwys hawl y Pwyllgor i drafod materion fel rhaglenni’r cronfeydd strwythurol yn y dyfodol. Cyfeiriodd Rhodri at lwyddiant y rhaglenni. Mae nifer o bobl yn hynod feirniadol ohonynt a rhaid inni leisio’r farn honno.
in Welsh We welcome the change in the Committee’s work, compared to the previous year. We also welcome the acceptance of some of our suggestions, including the Committee’s right to discuss matters such as structural fund programmes in future. Rhodri referred to the success of the programmes. Several people are highly critical of them and we must express that opinion.
Mae gwelliant 4 yn galw am swyddogaeth archwilio i’r Pwyllgor Materion Ewropeaidd, sydd hefyd yn bwysig. Gobeithiaf y gallwn symud ymlaen at hynny.
in Welsh Amendment 4 calls for the Committee on European Affairs to be given a scrutiny role, which is also important. I hope that we can move forward towards that.
With regard to Plaid Cymru’s amendment 3, it is important to replace point 4 with a call to the Assembly Cabinet to take the opportunity to influence debates on the enlargement of the European Union, future cohesion policy and European governance. It is important for us to have a voice in the vital pre-legislative process.
yn Saesneg Ynglŷn â gwelliant 3 Plaid Cymru, mae’n bwysig disodli pwynt 4 gyda galwad ar Gabinet y Cynulliad i fachu ar y cyfle i ddylanwadu ar ddadleuon i ehangu’r Undeb Ewropeaidd, polisi cydlyniad i’r dyfodol a llywodraeth Ewropeaidd. Mae’n bwysig i ni gael llais yn y broses gyn-ddeddfwriaethol.
I wanted to make several other points in the debate, however, time has defeated me. I will make three small points in closing. We recognise the work done in the Assembly’s Brussels office, but want to see it expanding. I am pleased that representatives of that office are here today. I want to see the Assembly join the Assembly of European Regions and I also want us to allow time in Plenary session to debate crucial matters affecting our relations with Europe.
yn Saesneg Yr oeddwn am wneud sawl pwynt eraill yn y ddadl, ond, fe’m gorchfygwyd gan amser. Gwnaf dri phwynt bach i gloi. Cydnabyddwn y gwaith a wneir yn swyddfa’r Cynulliad ym Mrwsel, ond dymunwn ei weld yn ehangu. Yr wyf yn falch fod cynrychiolwyr o’r swyddfa honno yma heddiw. Yr wyf am weld y Cynulliad yn ymuno â Chynulliad Rhanbarthau Ewrop ac yr wyf hefyd am inni roi amser mewn Cyfarfod Llawn i drafod materion holl bwysig sydd yn effeithio ar ein perthynas ag Ewrop.
John Marek The Deputy Presiding Officer spoken in English p. 66
John Marek Y Dirprwy Lywydd siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 66
I remind Members of the three-minute time limit. I want to keep to it strictly.
Atgoffaf Aelodau o’r cyfyngiad amser tri munud. Yr wyf am gadw’n gaeth ato.
It is good that the Assembly is debating international matters today, because, as an internationalist, I believe that it is important for Wales to look outwards and to build international links. It is good in itself and important for our economy and culture. The strengthening of Wales’s role in the European Union is important, as recognised in the motion.
Mae’n dda fod y Cynulliad yn trafod materion rhyngwladol heddiw, gan y credaf fel rhyngwladwr ei bod yn bwysig i Gymru edrych tuag allan a meithrin cysylltiadau rhyngwladol. Mae’n beth da ynddo’i hun ac yn bwysig ar gyfer ein heconomi a’n diwylliant. Mae’n bwysig cryfhau rôl Cymru yn yr Undeb Ewropeaidd, fel y nodwyd yn y cynnig.
I believe that Wales is positive about the European Union, as evidenced by the fact that our turnout in European elections was higher than the UK average. Our structural fund assistance and the agricultural nature of Wales influence that positivity. Wales does not want the xenophobia and narrow-mindedness of the Conservative Party, with their pound lapel badges bristling at the mere mention of the euro—
Credaf fod ymagwedd gadarnhaol yng Nghymru tuag at yr Undeb Ewropeaidd, fel y tystiolaethir gan y ffaith fod nifer y bobl yng Nghymru a bleidleisiodd yn yr etholiad Ewropeaidd yn uwch na chyfartaledd y DU. Mae ein cymorth cronfa strwythurol a natur amaethyddol Cymru yn dylanwadu ar yr ymagwedd gadarnhaol honno. Nid yw Cymru am i senophobia a chulni meddwl y Blaid Geidwadol, gyda’u bathodynnau label punt yn cyffroi wrth glywed sôn am yr ewro––
David Davies a gododd––
David Davies rose—
I do not have time for an intervention. We prefer an objective and realistic assessment of the economic, social and political case for UK entry, which I believe favours early entry when the conditions are right—
Nid oes gennyf amser i dderbyn ymyriad. Mae’n well gennym asesiad gwrthrychol a realistig o’r achos economaidd, cymdeithasol a pholiticaidd dros fynediad y DU, y credaf sydd o blaid ymuno’n gynnar pan fo’r amgylchiadau’n iawn––
Call a referendum.
Galwch refferendwm.
I do not have time to take interventions. I am sure that the Conservatives will have their chance to participate, although I notice that they have not tabled any amendments, probably because they are too divided to agree upon any.
Nid oes gennyf amser i dderbyn ymyriadau. Yr wyf yn siŵr y caiff y Ceidwadwyr eu cyfle i gyfrannu, er y sylwaf nad ydynt wedi cynnig gwelliannau, efallai oherwydd eu bod yn rhy ranedig i gytuno ar rai.
John Griffiths will not take an intervention and the Labour Party will not call a referendum.
Ni dderbynia John Griffiths ymyriad ac ni fydd y Blaid Lafur yn galw am refferendwm.
John Marek The Deputy Presiding Officer spoken in English p. 67
John Marek Y Dirprwy Lywydd siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 67
Order. John Griffiths is not giving way.
Trefn. Nid yw John Griffiths yn ildio.
The UK Government is committed to a referendum and when that time comes, the Assembly will play a leading role in taking the debate forward in Wales. I anticipate the Assembly campaigning firmly in favour of entry, recognising Wales’s interests. The Assembly should seek to enhance its role and its profile further. With the enlargement of the European Union, we should build stronger links, engage with applicant countries and organise the involvement of practitioners in the public, private and voluntary sectors in an Assembly-led initiative, concentrating on countries where such engagement would be mutually most valuable.
Mae Llywodraeth y DU yn ymrwymedig i refferendwm a phan ddaw yr amser hwnnw, bydd y Cynulliad yn chwarae rhan allweddol wrth arwain y ddadl yng Nghymru. Rhagwelaf y bydd y Cynulliad yn ymgyrchu’n gadarn o blaid mynediad, gan gydnabod buddiannau Cymru. Dylai’r Cynulliad geisio dyrchafu ei rôl a’i broffil ymhellach. Wrth i’r Undeb Ewropeaidd ehangu, dylem feithrin cysylltiadau cryfach, trafod â gwledydd sydd yn gwneud cais i ymuno a threfnu bod ymarferwyr yn y sectorau cyhoeddus, preifat a gwirfoddol yn cymryd rhan mewn menter dan arweiniad y Cynulliad gan ganolbwyntio ar wledydd lle y byddai cysylltiad o’r fath yn werthfawr i’r ddwy ochr.
I turn briefly to the initiative by the regions with constitutional powers. I believe that we must keep a weather eye on this initiative. The agenda and the regions involved are presently unclear. There is a reference to regions with law-making powers. Does this mean only primary law-making powers, or does it include secondary law-making powers? We must continue our involvement with these developments, as this initiative represents a possibility for the Assembly to increase its influence. With the enlargement of the European Union, there will be institutional change, and the recent declaration of the constitutional regions seeks a direct participation for them in the preparatory work for the 2004 intergovernmental conference and a consideration for their role in the future policy-making process and institutional framework.
Cyfeiriaf yn fyr at y fenter gan ranbarthau â phwerau cyfansoddiadol. Credaf y dylem gadw llygad ar y fenter hon. Mae’r agenda a’r rhanbarthau perthnasol yn aneglur ar hyn o bryd. Mae cyfeiriad at ranbarthau â phwerau deddfu. A olyga hyn bwerau deddfu sylfaenol, ynteu a yw’n cynnwys pwerau llunio is-ddeddfwriaeth? Rhaid inni barhau â’n cyfraniad i’r datblygiadau hyn, gan fod y fenter hon yn rhoi cyfle i’r Cynulliad gael mwy o ddylanwad. Yn sgîl ymestyn yr Undeb Ewropeaidd, daw newid sefydliadol, ac mae datganiad diweddar gan y rhanbarthau cyfansoddiadol yn galw am gyfranogiad uniongyrchol ganddynt hwy yn y gwaith paratoi ar gyfer cynhadledd rynglywodraethol 2004 ac ystyriaeth o’u rôl yn y broses llunio polisïau yn y dyfodol a’r fframwaith sefydliadol.
John Marek The Deputy Presiding Officer spoken in English p. 67
John Marek Y Dirprwy Lywydd siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 67
You have time for one more sentence.
Mae gennych amser i un frawddeg arall.
As the Assembly’s representative on the Committee of the Regions, I look forward to the paper that will be presented to the European Affairs Committee soon, on how to best develop that role.
Fel cynrychiolydd y Cynulliad ar Bwyllgor y Rhanbarthau, edrychaf ymlaen at y papur a gyflwynir i’r Pwyllgor Materion Ewropeaidd cyn bo hir, ar y ffordd orau o ddatblygu’r rôl honno.
On behalf of the Welsh Conservative Party, I welcome this debate. However, we are saddened by John Griffiths’s remarks. He did not mention the Committee of the Regions until he was allowed the additional 20 seconds at the end of his contribution. Neither did he outline the work carried out by the Committee of the Regions or by him as our permanent representative. What is the point of sending John Griffiths to the Committee of the Regions unless he can make a serious contribution to such a debate as this about the Committee of the Regions’s role in European policy formation?
Ar ran Plaid Geidwadol Cymru, croesawaf y ddadl hon. Fodd bynnag, fe’n tristawyd gan sylwadau John Griffiths. Ni soniodd am Bwyllgor y Rhanbarthau nes iddo gael yr 20 eiliad ychwanegol ar ddiwedd ei gyfraniad. Ni wnaeth ychwaith amlinellu’r gwaith a wnaethpwyd gan Bwyllgor y Rhanbarthau nac ef ei hun fel ein cynrychiolydd parhaol. Beth yw’r pwynt o anfon John Griffiths i Bwyllgor y Rhanbarthau os na all wneud cyfraniad difrifol i ddadl fel hon ar rôl Pwyllgor y Rhanbarthau wrth lunio polisi Ewrop?
I will discuss two issues this morning. The first is about our engagement with the European Union. We have been pro-active in the Assembly, especially in recent years. We have made progress in forging relationships with institutions. Ministers have attended the Council of Ministers’ meetings. The Council, as we all know, is the most important decision-making body in the European Union. The Assembly has an office in Brussels and we participate in regional bodies—although you would not have necessarily thought that listening to John Griffiths this morning. We are now looking to ensure the co-ordination of European policy across the National Assembly’s Subject Committees.
Trafodaf ddau fater y bore yma. Y cyntaf yw ein cysylltiadau â’r Undeb Ewropeaidd. Buom yn weithgar yn y Cynulliad, yn arbennig yn ystod y blynyddoedd diweddar. Gwnaethom gynnydd wrth greu perthynas â sefydliadau. Mae Gweinidogion wedi mynychu cyfarfodydd Cyngor y Gweinidogion. Y Cyngor, fel y gwyddom i gyd, yw’r corff gwneud penderfyniadau pwysicaf yn yr Undeb Ewropeaidd. Mae gan y Cynulliad swyddfa ym Mrwsel a chyfranogwn i gyrff rhanbarthol––er na fyddech o reidrwydd yn credu hynny o wrando ar John Griffiths y bore yma. Yr ydym bellach yn edrych ar sicrhau cydlynu polisi Ewrop ar draws Pwyllgorau Pwnc y Cynulliad Cenedlaethol.
The Assembly must promote the interests of Wales abroad. Much has been made of the constitutional significance of the relative independence of the regions of Spain and Germany. However, it is not only constitutional arrangements that enables a region to promote itself in the European Union, but also confidence. We need the confidence to bat effectively for the nation we represent and the ability to send officials, politicians and others to negotiate in high-level and crucial meetings. We can claim success for what we have achieved so far.
Rhaid i’r Cynulliad hyrwyddo buddiannau Cymru dramor. Rhoddwyd lawer o sylw i bwysigrwydd cyfansoddiadol annibyniaeth gymharol rhanbarthau yn Sbaen a’r Almaen. Fodd bynnag, nid trefniadau cyfansoddiadol yn unig sydd yn galluogi rhanbarth i hyrwyddo’i hun o fewn yr Undeb Ewropeaidd, ond hefyd hyder. Mae angen yr hyder arnom i weithredu’n effeithiol dros y genedl a gynrychiolwn a’r gallu i anfon swyddogion, gwleidyddion ac eraill i negodi mewn cyfarfodydd lefel uchel a phwysig. Gallwn hawlio llwyddiant am yr hyn a gyflawnwyd gennym hyd yma.
My second point relates to the enlargement of the European Union. This is the greatest challenge to us as a small nation. It is an opportunity, but also a threat. I will respond to the First Minister’s and, in particular, Delyth Evans’s speech earlier this morning about forging cultural, economic and political links with the emerging member states. The European Union will increase dramatically over the next few years and we know that there will be approximately 25 member states. There are opportunities for us to engage with these other nations, by establishing cultural, business and political links. You must recognise that you cannot stand alone on issues in Europe. If you want the best deal for your nation, you must negotiate and argue effectively and win over friends.
Mae fy ail bwynt yn ymwneud ag ehangu’r Undeb Ewropeaidd. Dyma’r her fwyaf i ni fel cenedl fechan. Mae’n gyfle, ond hefyd yn fygythiad. Ymatebaf i araith Prif Weinidog Cymru ac yn bennaf i araith Delyth Evans yn gynharach y bore yma ar greu cysylltiadau diwylliannol, economaidd a gwleidyddol gyda’r aelod-wladwriaethau newydd. Bydd yr Undeb Ewropeaidd yn cynyddu’n arw dros y blynyddoedd nesaf a gwyddom y bydd tua 25 o aelod-wladwriaethau. Mae cyfleoedd inni gyfathrebu â’r cenhedloedd eraill hyn, drwy sefydlu cysylltiadau diwylliannol, busnes a gwleidyddol. Rhaid ichi gydnabod nad yw’n bosibl sefyll ar wahân ar faterion yn Ewrop. Os ydych am gael y gorau i’ch cenedl, rhaid ichi negodi a dadlau yn effeithiol a gwneud ffrindiau.
To conclude, we must take this debate and Europe seriously. The Assembly must ensure that the debate on Europe goes much further than only a debate on the single currency. Huge debates are to be held and big opportunities to be realised. It is up to this Assembly to show the way.
I gloi, rhaid inni fod o ddifrif am y ddadl hon ac Ewrop. Rhaid i’r Cynulliad sicrhau yr aiff y ddadl ar Ewrop yn llawer pellach na dadl ar arian sengl. Bydd dadleuon enfawr yn digwydd a bydd cyfleoedd mawr i fanteisio arnynt. Rhaid i’r Cynulliad hwn arwain y blaen.
This is a timely report and debate. It allows us to determine our priorities in relation to the Government’s agenda over the next four years. Apart from the single currency and defence, we should concern ourselves with the enlargement of the European Union and building a social Europe. The enlargement of the European Union should not be hi-jacked by those who are sceptical of integration. Widening the Union should not be seen as a way of preventing the further deepening of the Union. Enlargement can stand on its merit as a means of securing greater prosperity and security across Europe. Neither should enlargement be used as a way of breaking up member states through the back door. Plaid Cymru’s constitutional and European policy amounts to this: an attempt to argue the case for Wales to become a member of a Europe of the regions because it lacks the courage to make an honest up-front case for the independence that it craves. It is right to argue the case for the continued role of the existing member states and to allow policy competencies to be decided within them. That approach would allow member states to decide for themselves what should be done at a regional level, providing flexibility and diversity across the European Union.
Daw’r adroddiad a’r ddadl hon ar adeg amserol. Mae’n ein galluogi i nodi ein blaenoriaethau mewn perthynas ag agenda’r Llywodraeth dros y pedair blynedd nesaf. Ar wahân i arian sengl ac amddiffyn, dylem ystyried y broses o ehangu’r Undeb Ewropeaidd ac adeiladu Ewrop gymdeithasol. Ni ddylai ehangu’r Undeb Ewropeaidd gael ei herwgipio gan y rhai sydd yn amau integreiddio. Ni ddylid gweld lledaenu’r Undeb fel ffordd o atal yr Undeb rhag dyfnhau ymhellach. Gall ehangu fod yn ffordd deilwng ynddi’i hun o sicrhau gwell ffyniant a sicrwydd ar draws Ewrop. Ac ni ddylid ychwaith ddefnyddio ehangu fel modd o chwalu aelod-wladwriaethau drwy’r drws cefn. Dyma fyrdwn polisi cyfansoddiadol ac Ewropeaidd Plaid Cymru: ymgais i ddadlau’r achos dros Gymru’n dod yn rhan o ranbarthau Ewrop oherwydd nad oes gan y Blaid y dewrder i gyflwyno achos gonest dros yr annibyniaeth y maent yn ei chrefu. Mae’n briodol dadlau dros rôl barhaus yr aelod-wladwriaethau presennol ac i alluoedd polisi gael eu penderfynu o fewn y gwladwriaethau hynny. Byddai’r ymagwedd honno yn galluogi aelod-wladwriaethau i benderfynu beth y dylid ei wneud ar lefel ranbarthol drostynt hwy eu hunain, gan gynnig hyblygrwydd ac amrywiaeth ar draws yr Undeb Ewropeaidd.
Enlargement is also an opportunity. It is estimated that the extension of the EU will add £1.75 billion to the UK’s gross domestic product, and 300,000 new jobs across the current member states. It would be too easy to view enlargement simply as the entry of new member states far ahead of Wales in the queue for structural funds. However, this is an opportunity for developing new export markets, greater cultural and social exchange, and enhanced collective security.
Mae ehangu hefyd yn gyfle. Amcangyfrifir y bydd ymestyn yr Undeb Ewropeaidd yn ychwanegu £1.75 biliwn i gynnyrch mewnwladol crynswth y DU, a 300,000 o swyddi newydd ar draws yr aelod-wladwriaethau presennol. Byddai’n rhy hawdd edrych ar ehangu fel mynediad i aelod-wladwriaethau newydd a fydd o flaen Cymru yn y ciw am arian strwythurol. Fodd bynnag, mae hwn yn gyfle i ddatblygu marchnadoedd allforio newydd, mwy o gyfnewid diwylliannol a chymdeithasol a mwy o sicrwydd cyfunol.
Even though the accession of the 12 applicant states would increase the EU’s population by 30 per cent and the GDP by only 6 per cent, the real story is of rapidly growing economies and markets. The average growth rate of the 12 states is twice that of western Europe. If that continues it will close the prosperity gap markedly and increase the purchasing power of the applicant states. Their markets are growing rapidly and the opportunities for our export companies need to be developed. We must take account of these emerging opportunities and help equip our companies with the capacity to compete. As someone representing a constituency with a large manufacturing sector, I want to see the Assembly and the WDA promoting these links.
Er y byddai derbyn y 12 gwladwriaeth a wnaeth gais i ymuno yn cynyddu poblogaeth yr UE 30 y cant a’r CMC ddim ond 6 y cant, y gwir stori yw economïau a marchnadoedd â thwf cyflym. Ar gyfartaeldd, mae cyfradd twf y 12 gwladwriaeth ddwywaith yn fwy na’r gyfradd yng ngorllewin Ewrop. Os y parha hyn, bydd yn cau’r bwlch ffyniant yn gyflym a chynyddu gallu prynu y darpar aelod-wladwriaethau. Mae eu marchnadoedd yn tyfu’n gyflym a rhaid datblygu’r cyfleoedd ar gyfer ein cwmnïau allforio. Rhaid inni ystyried y cyfleoedd hyn sydd yn dod i’r golwg a helpu’n cwmnïau gyda’r gallu i gystadlu. Fel rhywun sydd yn cynrychioli etholaeth â sector gweithgynhyrchu mawr, dymunaf weld y Cynulliad ac Awdurdod Datblygu Cymru yn hyrwyddo’r cysylltiadau hyn.
Secondly, I will make some points on the social dimension. Our ability to compete with the applicant states will depend on the social dimension and regulation laid down by the EU. The European project will be enhanced by the development of its social dimension. It is a pro-industry stance to applaud the extension of new rights for part-time and temporary workers, and rights to parental leave and paid holidays. It is also pro-industry to argue for greater protection for workers and communities.
Yn ail, cyflwynaf rai pwyntiau ar y dimensiwn cymdeithasol. Bydd ein gallu i gystadlu â darpar aelod-wladwriaethau yn dibynnu ar y dimensiwn a rheoliad cymdeithasol a bennir gan yr UE. Caiff prosiect Ewrop ei wella drwy ddatblygu ei ddimensiwn cymdeithasol. Mae’n safiad o blaid diwydiant i gymeradwyo estyn hawliau gweithwyr rhan amser a gweithwyr dros dro, a hawliau i absenoldeb ar gyfer rhieni a gwyliau â thâl. Mae hefyd o blaid diwydiant i ddadlau dros fwy o sicrwydd i weithwyr a chymunedau.
Monetary union, enlargement and expansion of the social dimension must go hand in hand. That is the future of Europe. It is a peaceful, prosperous future that benefits everyone in Wales. There are two sides to this coin: enlargement, which will ensure peace, new markets and growing prosperity, and a social dimension, which will ensure cohesion and fair play for all.
Rhaid i uno ariannol, ehangu ac ymestyn y dimensiwn cymdeithasol fynd law yn llaw. Dyna ddyfodol Ewrop. Dyfodol heddychlon, ffyniannus fydd yn fuddiol i bawb yng Nghymru ydyw. Mae dwy ochr i hyn: ehangu, a fydd yn sicrhau heddwch, marchnadoedd newydd a ffyniant cynyddol, a dimensiwn cymdeithasol, a fydd yn sicrhau cydlyniad a chwarae teg i bawb.
Europe is in the throes of great change, which will have major effects. Over the past two years we have learned that we cannot always rely on the UK Government to argue our case in Europe strongly enough, or even competently. We remember problems with agricultural policies, although they were resolved by the Assembly, problems with regional selective assistance and with the URBAN programme. We envy the superb record of the Irish who are the most effective diplomats in Brussels, and we must resolve to emulate them as far as possible.
Mae Ewrop yng nghanol newid mawr, a gaiff effeithiau pwysig. Yn ystod y ddwy flynedd ddiwethaf dysgasom nad allwn ddibynnu bob amser ar Lywodraeth y DU i ddadlau ein hachos yn Ewrop yn ddigon cryf, neu hyd yn oed yn fedrus. Cofiwn am broblemau gyda pholisïau amaethyddol, er iddynt gael eu datrys gan y Cynulliad, problemau â chymorth dethol rhanbarthol a phroblemau â’r rhaglen URBAN. Cenfigennwn at record ragorol y Gwyddelod sef y diplomyddion mwyaf effeithlon ym Mrwsel, a rhaid inni fynd ati i geisio eu hefelychu cyn belled ag y bo modd.
With the prospect of enlargement, two major decisions will be taken. The first concerns the eligibility of regions in the existing EU for structural funding after enlargement. One point of view argues for a two-stream solution where the eligibility of regions in the existing EU regions should not be prejudiced by enlargement, and extra funds should be raised to provide additional structural support for the new member states. However, that would require extra funds from the richer members of the EU and it might be opposed by the UK Government, which might support the other extreme, where the funds are pegged at the present level and the present rules apply to the 27 member states. Therefore, virtually all existing Objective 1 regions would cease to qualify. In between, there is a case for enhanced transitional support. This is a clear example where the interests of Wales and those of, for example, the south of England, might clash. How will our Government press the case for Wales in such a context?
Gyda dyfodiad ehangu, bydd angen gwneud dau benderfyniad pwysig. Mae’r cyntaf yn ymwneud â chymhwysedd rhanbarthau yn yr UE bresennol i gael arian strwythurol ar ôl ehangu. Mae un safbwynt yn dadlau o blaid ateb dwy ffrwd lle na ddylai cymhwysedd rhanbarthau presennol yr UE gael ei ragfarnu gan ehangu, ac y dylid codi arian ychwanegol er mwyn rhoi cymorth strwythurol ychwanegol ar gyfer yr aelod wladwriaethau newydd. Fodd bynnag, byddai’n rhaid cael arian ychwanegol ar gyfer hynny gan aelodau cyfoethocach o’r UE a gallai Llywodraeth y DU ei wrthwynebu, a allai gynorthwyo’r pegwn arall, lle mae arian wedi’i sefydlogi ar y lefel bresennol a lle mae’r rheolau presennol yn gymwys i’r 27 o’r aelod wladwriaethau. Felly, byddai bron pob rhanbarth Amcan 1 presennol yn peidio â bod yn gymwys. Yn y cyfamser, ceir achos o blaid cymorth trosiannol ehangach. Dyma enghraifft amlwg lle y gallai buddiannau Cymru wrthdaro â buddiannau de Lloegr, er enghraifft. Sut y bydd ein Llywodraeth yn dadlau achos Cymru mewn cyd-destun o’r fath?
Secondly, there is the matter of major constitutional change. The lines of battle are being drawn up. There are two visions of the future. One vision—hinted at by Tony Blair—suggests a body, perhaps a second chamber, nominated by the present member states. In contrast Belgium, which will soon hold the EU presidency, is pressing for increased status for regions of the EU. That echoes the sentiment of the Barcelona conference. It is significant that the declaration signed by regions that have legislation powers, calling for an active role in all the negotiations leading to the next intergovernmental conference, was signed by Henry McLeish on behalf of Scotland. However, I do not know whether he also signed it on behalf of the Labour Party.
Yn ail, ceir y mater o newid cyfansoddiadol mawr. Mae rhengoedd y frwydr yn cael eu llunio. Ceir dwy weledigaeth o’r dyfodol. Mae un weledigaeth—a led-awgrymwyd gan Tony Blair—yn awgrymu corff, ail siambr efallai, wedi’i enwebu gan yr aelod wladwriaethau presennol. Mewn gwrthgyferbyniad, mae Gwlad Belg, a fydd yn llywyddu’r UE yn fuan, yn pwyso am statws gynyddol i ranbarthau’r UE. Mae hynny’n adleisio teimlad cynhadledd Barcelona. Mae’n arwyddocáol bod y datganiad a lofnodwyd gan y rhanbarthau sydd â phwerau deddfwriaethol, yn galw am rôl weithredol yn yr holl negodiadau sydd yn arwain at y gynhadledd rynglywodraethol nesaf, wedi’i llofnodi gan Henry McLeish ar ran yr Alban. Fodd bynnag, ni wn a’i llofnododd ar ran y Blaid Lafur hefyd.
Last week, I attended the Commonwealth Parliamentary Association’s regional conference in Edinburgh. One morning, Business a.m. carried the headline
Yr wythnos diwethaf, mynychais gynhadledd ranbarthol Cymdeithas Seneddol y Gymanwlad yng Nghaeredin. Un bore, y pennawd yn Business a.m oedd
‘Straw will fight plan to boost Scotland’s EU status’.
Therefore, we must ask, who talks for the Labour Party—Henry McLeish or Jack Straw? If there is a clash between Wales and Westminster, where will the Welsh Labour Party stand—fighting for the best conclusions for Wales or remaining loyal to Millbank?
Felly, rhaid inni ofyn, pwy sydd yn siarad ar ran y Blaid Lafur—Henry McLeish neu Jack Straw? Os oes gwrthdaro rhwng Cymru a San Steffan, beth fydd sefyllfa Plaid Lafur Cymru—yn ymladd am y canlyniadau gorau i Gymru neu’n parhau’n ffyddlon i Millbank?
Finally, sustainable development may appear to be a personal obsession, but it is one of the Assembly’s statutory obligations. It is a matter of pride that the proposals for sustainable development in the EU are known as the Cardiff process. However, it is a matter of regret that they were not endorsed at the EU summit in Gothenburg.
Yn olaf, er y gallai datblygu cynaliadwy ymddangos fel obsesiwn personol, mae’n un o oblygiadau statudol y Cynulliad. Mae’n destun balchder bod y cynigion ar gyfer datblygu cynaliadwy yn yr UE yn cael eu hadnabod fel proses Caerdydd. Fodd bynnag, mae’n resyn na chawsant eu cymeradwyo yn uwchgynhadledd yr UE yn Gothenburg.
It is entirely appropriate that we debate European issues this morning. Objective 1 funding is having a major impact on my constituency. There are significant increases in building programmes for Coleg Llandrillo, which was among the projects to be approved early, providing the reskilling and upskilling that the north Wales population requires. I was also pleased to see a new college being built in Abergele. The EU enlargement process is good news, guaranteeing democracy and political stability in nations that have not seen much of either in the twentieth century.
Mae’n gwbl briodol ein bod yn trafod materion Ewropeaidd y bore yma. Mae arian Amcan 1 yn cael effaith fawr ar fy etholaeth i. Ceir cynnydd sylweddol o ran rhaglenni adeiladu ar gyfer Coleg Llandrillo, a oedd ymysg y prosiectau i gael eu cymeradwyo’n gynnar, gan ddarparu’r ailsgilio a’r uwchsgilio sydd ei angen ar boblogaeth gogledd Cymru. Yr oeddwn hefyd yn falch o weld coleg newydd yn cael ei adeiladu yn Abergele. Mae proses ehangu yr UE yn newyddion da, sydd yn gwarantu democratiaeth a sefydlogrwydd gwleidyddol mewn cenhedloedd na welodd lawer o’r naill na’r llall yn yr ugeinfed ganrif.
However, the European issue that will dominate debate over the next few years is the question of whether or not the UK should join the single European currency. In Wales, tourism, agriculture and manufacturing all stand to benefit from being part of this logical extension of the single market. These industries are relatively more important in Wales than in the UK as a whole, and they are particularly important for Clwyd West. The elimination of transaction costs would benefit businesses and tourists alike, and the elimination of exchange rate risk is a powerful stimulation to trade. When euro notes and coins come into circulation next year and people get used to dealing with the physical money rather than just seeing numbers on a credit card statement, attitudes will warm towards the euro.
Fodd bynnag, y mater Ewropeaidd a fydd yn tra-arglwyddiaethu ar y ddadl yn ystod y blynyddoedd nesaf yw a ddylai’r DU ymuno ag arian sengl Ewrop. Yng Nghymru, gallai twristiaeth, amaethyddiaeth a gweithgynhyrchu oll elwa ar fod yn rhan o’r estyniad rhesymegol hwn o’r farchnad sengl. Mae’r diwydiannau hyn yn gymharol bwysicach yng Nghymru nag yn y DU gyfan, ac maent yn arbennig o bwysig i Orllewin Clwyd. Byddai dileu costau trafodion o fudd i fusnesau a thwristiaid fel ei gilydd, ac mae dileu risg y gyfradd gyfnewid yn ysgogiad pwerus i fasnach. Pan ddaw arian papur ac arian mân yr ewro i gylchrediad y flwyddyn nesaf a phan ddaw pobl yn gyfarwydd ag ymdrin ag arian gwirioneddol yn hytrach na dim ond gweld rhifau ar gyfriflen cerdyn credyd, bydd agweddau’n cynhesu tuag at yr ewro.
The First Minister is correct to say that many businesses in the UK will operate dual-currency tills. This is a process that is rather unglamorously known as ‘eurocreep’. I ask the Presiding Officer to allow us to play a small part in the process, by allowing members, officials and the public to accept euros from the various tills in Assembly buildings.
Mae Prif Weinidog Cymru yn gywir i ddweud y bydd nifer o fusnesau yn y DU yn gweithredu tiliau dau arian cyfred. Mae hon yn broses a elwir braidd yn annymunol fel ‘eurocreep’. Gofynnaf i’r Llywydd ganiatáu inni chwarae rhan fach yn y broses, drwy alluogi aelodau, swyddogion a’r cyhoedd i dderbyn ewros o’r tiliau amrywiol yn adeiladau’r Cynulliad.
Will you support allowing dollars to be used in Assembly tills, given the greater importance of the dollar in our economy?
A wnewch chi gefnogi caniatáu doleri i gael eu defnyddio yn nhiliau’r Cynulliad, o gofio statws bwysicach y ddoler yn ein heconomi?
I think that you will find that the euro will have a bigger part to play in the economy than the US dollar. I do not have a problem with multi-currency tills, particularly for tourists.
Credaf y canfyddwch y bydd gan yr ewro fwy o ran i’w chwarae yn yr economi na doler yr Unol Daleithiau. Nid oes problem gennyf â thiliau aml-arian cyfred, yn enwedig ar gyfer twristiaid.
There are some legitimate concerns about the euro. I have a problem with the large denomination notes that will be available. A 500 euro note, which is equivalent to £300, has no legitimate use because large transactions should be traceable. The only people who stand to gain from the equivalent of £300 notes, are those who have something to hide. It will be a boon to drug dealers and tax dodgers, but I cannot imagine any reason why anybody would want to carry around £1 million in cash.
Mae rhai pryderon dilys ynglŷn â’r ewro. Mae gennyf broblem gyda’r papurau gwerth uchel a fydd ar gael. Nid oes defnydd dilys i’r papur 500 ewro, sydd yn cyfateb i £300, gan y dylid gallu olrhain trafodion mawr. Yr unig bobl a fydd yn elwa ar yr hyn sydd yn cyfateb i bapurau £300, yw’r sawl sydd â rhywbeth i’w guddio. Bydd yn fendith i werthwyr cyffuriau a’r rheini sydd yn osgoi talu trethi, ond nid allaf ddychmygu unrhyw reswm pam y byddai unrhyw un eisiau cario £1 miliwn mewn arian parod.
I am also concerned about the non-accountability of the committee responsible for setting interest rates in the euro zone. This should be the role of the elected European Parliament. Despite these reservations, were there a referendum on the euro today, I would vote in favour of joining. Our political and economic future is inextricably linked with our European neighbours—pooling our sovereignty, not surrendering it. By joining any alliance of nations, be it a military one such as NATO, or an economic or political one such as the European Union, it will inevitably restrict our ability as a nation state to manoeuvre. There is no such thing as an independent nation state in this world, with the possible exception of North Korea. Sovereignty is not virginity. We need to join the euro sooner rather than later. We need to break our long tradition of joining a club late and reluctantly, and then saying that we do not like the rules.
Yr wyf hefyd yn bryderus am ddiffyg atebolrwydd y pwyllgor sydd yn gyfrifol am bennu cyfraddau llog yn ardal yr ewro. Dylai hyn fod yn rôl i’r Senedd Ewropeaidd etholedig. Er gwaetha’r amheuon hyn, pe byddai refferendwm ar yr ewro heddiw, byddwn yn pleidleisio o blaid ymuno. Mae’n dyfodol gwleidyddol ac economaidd wedi’i gysylltu’n anorfod â’n cymdogion Ewropeaidd—cyfuno ein sofraniaeth, nid ei hildio. Wrth ymuno ag unrhyw gynghrair o genhedloedd, boed yn un militaraidd megis NATO, neu’n un economaidd neu wleidyddol megis yr Undeb Ewropeaidd, bydd yn anochel yn cyfyngu ar ein gallu fel cenedl-wladwriaeth i symud. Nid oes y fath beth â chenedl wladwriaeth annibynnol yn y byd hwn, ar wahân efallai i Ogledd Korea. Nid gwyryfiaeth yw sofraniaeth. Mae angen inni ymuno â’r ewro cyn gynted ag y bo modd. Mae angen inni dorri ein traddodiad hir o ymuno â chlwb yn hwyr ac yn gyndyn, ac yna ddweud nad ydym yn hoffi’r rheolau.
In some ways, we live in strange and perilous times. Members will be aware of headlines on the inner pages of newspapers during the past few weeks that announced the mobilisation of the Macedonian army. We know that Macedonia has a relatively short history. If you cast your minds back to 334 BC when the Macedonian army was last mobilised, the consequence, which according to some commentators was cataclysmic, was that the army of Alexander the Great took a pan-hellenic civilisation from the Ionian Sea to the Indian Ocean. We must watch events in the Balklands with great interest. One hardly needs to repeat what happened in 1914. That is why the Welsh Conservatives and the Conservative Party generally are so keen on enlargement. It will firmly contribute to greater security, peace in Europe and a sense of stability throughout the world. Such cohesiveness cannot be obtained easily but we believe that it is a fair price to pay. We are not keen on many of the aspects proposed by the European Commission, but enlargement will affect us all. It will affect us dramatically in Wales. We should work to that end in the interests of all and for the prosperity of many.
Mewn rhai ffyrdd, yr ydym yn byw mewn amseroedd rhyfedd a pheryglus. Bydd Aelodau’n ymwybodol o’r penawdau yn nhudalennau mewnol y papurau newydd yn ystod yr wythnosau diwethaf a gyhoeddodd bod byddin Macedonia yn cael ei hymgasglu. Gwyddom mai hanes cymharol fyr sydd gan Macedonia. Pe byddech yn meddwl yn ôl i 334 CC pan ymgasglwyd byddin Macedonia ddiwethaf, y canlyniad, a oedd yn drychinebus yn ôl rhai sylwebyddion, oedd bod byddin Alecsander Fawr wedi mynd â gwareiddiad holl-helenaidd o’r Môr Ïonaidd i Gefnfor India. Rhaid inni wylio digwyddiadau yn y Balcanau â diddordeb mawr. Prin bod angen imi ailadrodd yr hyn a ddigwyddodd yn 1914. Dyna pam bod Ceidwadwyr Cymru a’r Blaid Geidwadol yn gyffredinol mor awyddus i weld ehangu. Bydd yn gyfraniad pendant tuag at fwy o ddiogelwch, heddwch yn Ewrop ac ymdeimlad o sefydlogrwydd drwy’r byd i gyd. Ni ellir cael undod o’r fath yn hawdd ond credwn ei fod yn bris teg i’w dalu. Nid ydym yn or-hoff o rai agweddau a gynigir gan y Comisiwn Ewropeaidd, ond bydd ehangu yn effeithio arnom i gyd. Bydd yn effeithio arnom yn ddramatig yng Nghymru. Rhaid inni weithio tuag at y diben hwnnw er budd pawb ac er ffyniant llawer.
The purpose of the Committee on European Affairs is to ensure that a coherent, strategic approach is adopted by the National Assembly in relation to Europe and that there is a co-ordinated approach to the Assembly’s responsibilities in relation to the EU in each of its Subject Committees. The most important issues of concern to be addressed in the report are the introduction of the euro and the proposed EU enlargement, and their effects on the UK, and on Wales in particular. Notwithstanding that, I would like to say how well networks are being built in Europe. I mention in particular the Wales European Centre. I also look forward to the intergovernmental conference in 2004. The charter of competencies will help democratise Europe.
Diben y Pwyllgor Materion Ewropeaidd yw sicrhau y mabwysiedir ymagwedd gydlynol, strategol gan y Cynulliad Cenedlaethol mewn perthynas ag Ewrop a bod ymagwedd gysylltiedig tuag at gyfrifoldebau’r Cynulliad mewn perthynas â’r UE ym mhob un o’i Bwyllgorau Pwnc. Y materion sydd yn peri’r pryder mwyaf y dylid ymdrin â hwy yn yr adroddiad yw cyflwyno’r ewro ac ehangu arfaethedig yr UE, a’u heffeithiau ar y DU, ac ar Gymru’n arbennig. Serch hynny, hoffwn ddweud pa mor dda y mae rhwydweithiau yn cael eu hadeiladu yn Ewrop. Soniaf yn arbennig am Ganolfan Ewropeaidd Cymru. Edrychaf ymlaen hefyd at y gynhadledd rynglywodraethol yn 2004. Bydd y siarter galluoedd yn helpu i ddemocrateiddio Ewrop.
The Liberal Democrats are proud that ours is the only party that advocated early entry into the euro. The Labour Party, despite its landslide win, is still unwilling to lead the debate on the euro. Labour is hiding behind the Chancellor’s five economic tests and leaving the population in the dark about the benefits of the euro. To remind you, the five economic tests are: sustained convergence between Britain and the economies in the single currency; sufficient flexibility to cope with economic change; the effect on inward investment in Britain; the impact on the financial services industry; and whether the change is good for employment.
Mae’r Democratiaid Rhyddfrydol yn falch mai ni oedd yr unig blaid i ddadlau o blaid mynediad cynnar i mewn i’r ewro. Mae’r Blaid Lafur, er gwaethaf ei buddugoliaeth ysgubol, yn parhau i fod yn amharod i arwain y ddadl ar yr ewro. Mae Llafur yn cuddio y tu ôl i bum prawf economaidd y Canghellor ac yn gadael y boblogaeth yn y tywyllwch ynghylch manteision yr ewro. I’ch atgoffa, y pum prawf economaidd yw: cydgyfeiriad cynaliadwy rhwng Prydain a’r economïau yn yr arian sengl; hyblygrwydd digonol i ymdopi â newid economaidd; yr effaith ar fewn fuddsoddi ym Mhrydain; yr effaith ar y diwydiant gwasanaethau ariannol; a pha un a yw’r newid yn gwneud lles i gyflogaeth.
The Liberal Democrats believe that these five economic tests have been met. Business cycles in Wales and Europe in the post-war era tend to be broadly aligned. The Welsh economy has become more flexible in recent years and should be able to sustain likely shocks, such as rises in oil prices, without prolonged unemployment. Monetary union would provide better investment in Wales. The City of London has the opportunity to become the centre of the whole European financial industry. There would be knock-on effects for Cardiff. Monetary union should provide growth, stability and a lasting increase in jobs. It forces greater efficiency and makes firms operate on a larger scale. Britain, and Wales in particular, risk being left behind and will not benefit from efficiency gains.
Cred y Democratiaid Rhyddfrydol bod y pum prawf economaidd hyn wedi eu bodloni. Mae cylchoedd busnes yng Nghymru ac Ewrop yn y cyfnod ar ôl y rhyfel yn tueddu, yn fras, i fod yn gyfunion. Daeth economi Cymru yn fwy hyblyg yn y blynyddoedd diwethaf a dylai fod yn gallu gwrthsefyll ergydion tebygol, megis cynnydd mewn prisiau olew, heb ddioddef diweithdra am gyfnodau maith. Byddai undeb ariannol yn darparu gwell buddsoddiad yng Nghymru. Mae cyfle gan Ddinas Llundain i ddod yn ganolfan holl ddiwydiant arian Ewrop. Byddai gan hynny sgîl-effeithiau I Gaerdydd. Dylai undeb ariannol ddarparu twf, sefydlogrwydd a chynnydd parhaol o ran swyddi. Mae’n gorfodi rhagor o effeithlonrwydd ac yn gwneud i gwmnïau weithredu ar raddfa ehangach. Mae perygl y bydd Prydain, a Chymru’n arbennig, yn cael eu gadael ar ôl ac na fyddant yn elwa ar yr arbedion effeithlonrwydd.
The Liberal Democrats call on the Chancellor to act on his recommendation, to make six-monthly assessments of the economic tests, to emphasise the importance of adopting a sixth economic test, which is a competitive exchange rate, and to organise a referendum as early as possible.
Mae’r Democratiaid Rhyddfrydol yn galw ar y Canghellor i weithredu ar ei argymhelliad, sef gwneud asesiadau bob chwe mis o’r profion economaidd, er mwyn pwysleisio’r pwysigrwydd o fabwysiadu chweched prawf economaidd, sef cyfradd gyfnewid gystadleuol, a threfnu refferendwm cyn gynted ag y bo modd.
The Liberal Democrats’ policy is to push for the early enlargement of the EU. The countries of central and eastern Europe, including Estonia, Hungary and Poland, have been waiting for over 10 years to join. The benefits of expansion include giving us access to over 500 million consumers and an extra 11 million farmers who would help to increase the agriculture lobby.
Polisi’r Democratiaid Rhyddfrydol yw pwyso am ehangu’r UE yn gynnar. Bu gwledydd canol a dwyrain Ewrop, gan gynnwys Estonia, Hwngari a Gwlad Pŵyl, yn disgwyl ers dros 10 mlynedd i ymuno. Mae manteision ehangu yn cynnwys rhoi mynediad inni i dros 500 miliwn o ddefnyddwyr ac 11 miliwn ychwanegol o ffermwyr a fyddai’n helpu i gynyddu’r lobi amaethyddol.
To conclude, the Liberal Democrats believe that the most important issues in the Committee on European Affairs’s report are the introduction of the euro and EU enlargement. As I have shown, the adoption of the euro is essential if Welsh industry, in terms of agriculture, tourism and manufacturing, is to continue.
I gloi, cred y Democratiaid Rhyddfrydol mai’r materion pwysicaf yn adroddiad y Pwyllgor Materion Ewropeaidd yw cyflwyno’r ewro ac ehangu’r UE. Fel y dangosais, mae’n hanfodol mabwysiadu’r ewro, os yw diwydiant Cymru, o ran amaethyddiaeth, twristiaeth a gweithgynhyrchu, i barhau.
I welcome the 2000-01 annual report of the Committee on European Affairs and the opportunity of serving on that Committee over recent months. We should not underestimate the great strides that the Assembly has made in placing Wales at the heart of Europe. That has been aided by the Wales European Centre in Brussels and our representative there, Des Clifford. Such developments provide a greater opportunity to press home Wales’s sense of identity in Europe.
Croesawaf adroddiad blynyddol 2000-01 y Pwyllgor Materion Ewropeaidd a’r cyfle i wasanaethu ar y Pwyllgor hwnnw yn ystod y misoedd diwethaf. Ni ddylem danbrisio’r camau mawr a wnaeth y Cynulliad er mwyn rhoi Cymru wrth galon Ewrop. Cynorthwywyd hynny gan Ganolfan Ewropeaidd Cymru a Des Clifford, ein cynrychiolydd yno. Mae datblygiadau o’r fath yn rhoi mwy o gyfle i bwysleisio ymdeimlad Cymru o hunaniaeth yn Ewrop.
Wales needs to be at the heart of Europe. It must be a political player in a modern Europe. I am pleased that the last Labour Government initiated a step-change programme, which helped to strengthen links with our European counterparts. It was good that the Assembly, through Rhodri Morgan, the First Minister, was involved in those discussions. I am sure that that will continue.
Mae angen i Gymru fod wrth galon Ewrop. Rhaid iddi fod yn chwaraewr gwleidyddol mewn Ewrop fodern. Yr wyf yn falch bod y Llywodraeth Lafur ddiwethaf wedi cychwyn rhaglen o newid mawr, a helpodd i atgyfnerthu cysylltiadau â’n cymdogion Ewropeaidd. Yr oedd yn beth da bod y Cynulliad, drwy Rhodri Morgan, Prif Weinidog Cymru, yn rhan o’r trafodaethau hynny. Yr wyf yn sicr y bydd hynny’n parhau.
We must acknowledge the great benefits of being in Europe. The main benefit is structural funds. However, we must also acknowledge the challenges. The turnout at the last European elections was the lowest in any nation-wide elections. We must recognise that sometimes the public feels hostile towards Europe or out of touch with it. However, if Wales is to be at the heart of Europe, as we aspire to be, that can help to bring Europe closer and make its policies much more relevant to the people of Wales.
Rhaid inni gydnabod y manteision pwysig o fod yn Ewrop. Y prif fantais yw arian strwythurol. Fodd bynnag, rhaid inni hefyd gydnabod y sialensau. Yr oedd y nifer a bledleisiodd yn yr etholiadau Ewropeaidd diwethaf gyda’r nifer isaf mewn unrhyw etholiad cenedlaethol. Rhaid inni gydnabod bod y cyhoedd weithiau yn teimlo’n elyniaethus tuag at Ewrop neu na allant uniaethu ag ef. Fodd bynnag, os yw Cymru am fod wrth galon Ewrop, yn ôl ein dyhead, gall hynny helpu i ddod ag Ewrop yn agosach a gwneud ei bolisïau yn llawer mwy perthnasol i bobl Cymru.
I was pleased to see how the Assembly is bringing its influence to bear in Europe on several fronts. We all recognise the increased role for Assembly Ministers in the Council of Ministers, and the Assembly recently decided to join the Conference of Peripheral and Maritime Regions. That has been a key development since devolution.
Yr oeddwn yn falch o weld y modd y mae’r Cynulliad yn dylanwadu ar Ewrop mewn nifer o feysydd. Yr ydym oll yn cydnabod y rôl gynyddol i Weinidogion y Cynulliad yng Nghyngor y Gweinidogion, ac yn ddiweddar penderfynodd y Cynulliad ymuno â’r Gynhadledd Rhanbarthau Ffiniol a Morol. Bu hynny’n ddatblygiad allweddol ers datganoli.
Being at the heart of Europe is also about sharing best practice and experiences. On enlargement, several candidate countries are looking carefully at Wales’s growing democracy. We can learn from each other, as they also have emerging democracies. I was pleased to attend the Poland-Wales conference recently. It was extremely useful. Such events help to forge political, cultural and economic links.
Mae bod wrth galon Ewrop hefyd yn ymwneud â rhannu arferion gorau a phrofiadau. O ran ehangu, mae nifer o wledydd sydd yn ymgeisio i fod yn rhan o Ewrop yn edrych yn ofalus ar ddemocratiaeth Cymru sydd yn prysur ddatblygu. Gallwn ddysgu oddi wrth ein gilydd, gan fod ganddynt hwythau hefyd ddemocratiaethau sydd yn datblygu. Yr oeddwn yn falch o fynychu’r gynhadledd rhwng Gwlad Pŵyl a Chymru yn ddiweddar. Yr oedd yn hynod ddefnyddiol. Mae digwyddiadau o’r fath yn helpu i greu cysylltiadau gwleidyddol, diwylliannol ac economaidd.
The Committee on Equality of Opportunity recently considered a report on the Finnish experience of mainstreaming equality issues. That sort of initiative will help to develop Wales’s approaches to equality. Finnish women, in 1906, were the first in Europe to be granted the right to vote. That country has built upon that and it is useful to look at its experiences.
Yn ddiweddar ystyriodd y Pwyllgor Cyfle Cyfartal adroddiad ar y profiad yn y Ffindir o brif-ffrydio materion cydraddoldeb. Byddai’r math honno o fenter yn helpu i ddatblygu ymagweddau Cymru tuag at gydraddoldeb. Yn 1906, merched y Ffindir oedd y cyntaf yn Ewrop i gael yr hawl i bleidlesio. Adeiladodd y wlad honno ar hynny ac mae’n ddefnyddiol edrych ar ei phrofiadau.
I was pleased that Rhodri mentioned Elisabeth Slavkoff, who attended our Objective 1 programme monitoring committee meeting last week in Llandudno. She was impressed that Objective 1 is on target and that we are developing a consensual and transparent approach but also making a stab at partnership in Wales. She will go back to the other member countries and tell them about what we are doing in Wales.
Yr oeddwn yn falch bod Rhodri wedi crybwyll Elisabeth Slavkoff, a fynychodd ein cyfarfod pwyllgor monitro rhaglen Amcan 1 yr wythnos diwethaf yn Llandudno. Yr oedd yn llawn edmygedd bod Amcan 1 yn cyflawni yn ôl y disgwyl a’n bod yn datblygu ymagwedd gytûn a thrylow ond hefyd yn rhoi cynnig ar weithio mewn partneriaeth yng Nghymru. Bydd yn dychwelyd at yr aelod wladwriaethau eraill ac yn dweud wrthynt am yr hyn a wnawn yng Nghymru.
Rhodri Morgan Prif Weinidog Cymru siaradwyd yn Gymraeg ac yn Saesneg t. 78
Rhodri Morgan The First Minister spoken in Welsh and English p. 78
Yn gyntaf, mae’n bwysig ein bod yn setlo mater a gododd yn ystod areithiau Ieuan Wyn Jones a Lynne Neagle.
in Welsh First, it is important that we settle a matter that arose during Ieuan Wyn Jones’s and Lynne Neagle’s speeches.
Nid wyf am godi’r tymheredd y bore yma, ond rhaid inni fod yn glir ynghylch y pwynt hwn. Dim ond un bleidlais sydd gan y Deyrnas Gyfunol yng nghyfarfodydd Cyngor y Gweinidogion. Nid oes pleidleisiau ar wahân i Gymru, yr Alban ac ati. Felly, os ydym yn bresennol ar ran y Cynulliad, yr ydym yno fel rhan o garfan, ond y mae’r ffordd y bydd y Deyrnas Gyfunol yn pleidleisio wedi ei setlo cyn y cyfarfod. Nid oes modd cyfaddawdu ar hynny, felly mae Lynne yn gywir. Os nad ydych yn aelod wladwriaeth ar wahân, fel Iwerddon, ni allwch bleidleisio ar wahân. Felly, rhaid i Blaid Cymru fod yn glir ynghylch yr hyn y mae’n gofyn amdano. Dim ond un bleidlais sydd gan bob aelod wladwriaeth. Mae Iwerddon yn aelod wladwriaeth ar wahân, ond nid yw Cymru. Dyna un rheswm pam yr ydym yn argymell pleidleisio yn erbyn gwelliant 1.
in Welsh I do not wish to raise the temperature this morning, but we must be clear on this point. The United Kingdom has only vote in Council of Ministers meetings. There are no separate votes for Wales, Scotland and so on. Therefore, if we are present on behalf of the Assembly, we are there as part of a group, but the way in which the United Kingdom votes is settled before the meeting takes place. It is not possible to compromise on that, so Lynne is correct. If you are not a separate member state such as Ireland, you cannot vote separately. Therefore, Plaid Cymru must be clear about what it is asking for. Each member state has only one vote. Ireland is a separate member state, but Wales is not. That is one reason why we recommend voting against amendment 1.
We also recommend that Members reject the other amendments. On European structural funds programmes and the Committee on European Affairs, it would have been contrary to Standing Orders had the Committee discussed those programmes. I am happy to accept the spirit of that amendment, but what it suggests could only have been done by breaking Standing Orders. Likewise, Jocelyn, as regards the Assembly’s influence on enlargement, we are keen to influence, and are influencing the whole debate. I have made the point about involvement of this Cabinet time and again. We cannot, therefore, support amendment 3, as it implies that we are not doing what we clearly are doing. It is important for us to concentrate on 2004 as the key point. We are building bridges with other regions and contributing to the UK position as regards the 2004 conference. I do not believe that any First Minister or any politician in Wales has emphasised that as often as I have. We recommend that Members reject that amendment.
yn Saesneg Argymhellwn hefyd bod Aelodau yn gwrthod y gwelliannau eraill. O ran rhaglenni cronfeydd strwythurol Ewrop a’r Pwyllgor Materion Ewropeaidd, byddai wedi bod yn groes i’r Rheolau Sefydlog pe bai’r Pwyllgor wedi trafod y rhaglenni hynny. Yr wyf yn fodlon derbyn ysbryd y gwelliant hwnnw, ond dim ond drwy dorri’r Rheolau Sefydlog y gellid cyflawni’r hyn y mae’n ei awgrymu. Yn yr un modd, Jocelyn, mewn perthynas â dylanwad y Cynulliad ar ehangu, yr ydym yn awyddus i ddylanwadu ar y ddadl gyfan ac fe wnawn hynny. Gwneuthum y pwynt am gyfranogiad y Cabinet hwn droeon. Felly ni allwn gefnogi gwelliant 3, gan ei fod yn awgrymu nad ydym yn gwneud yr hyn yr ydym yn amlwg yn ei wneud. Mae’n bwysig inni ganolbwyntio ar 2004 fel y pwynt allweddol. Yr ydym yn adeiladu pontydd â rhanbarthau eraill ac yn cyfrannu at safbwynt y DU o ran cynhadledd 2004. Ni chredaf fod unrhyw Brif Weinidog nac unrhyw wleidydd arall yng Nghymru wedi pwysleisio hynny mor aml ag y gwneuthum i. Argymhellwn bod yr Aelodau yn gwrthod y gwelliant hwnnw.
On amendment 4 and the question of scrutiny by the Committee on European Affairs, scrutiny is not an appropriate role for that Committee. We can look strategically at issues, we can take them out, and the Committee can consider them. However, the Scottish Parliament tried scrutiny and gave it up because there is too much paperwork coming from Europe. We also recommend rejecting amendment 5. I cannot sign political declarations that I am not invited to sign. However, I can accept invitations that I have received to attend conferences that are a consequence of such political declarations. However, we will be playing a part in the Liege Summit Conference of the Regions with legislative competence—as John Griffiths said—and I will be present during that conference or, if I am not, Mike German will attend instead.
yn Saesneg O ran gwelliant 4 a’r cwestiwn o graffu gan y Pwyllgor Materion Ewropeaidd, nid yw craffu yn rôl briodol i’r Pwyllgor hwnnw. Gallwn edrych yn strategol ar faterion, gallwn eu nodi, a gall y Pwyllgor eu hystyried. Fodd bynnag, rhoddodd Senedd yr Alban gynnig ar graffu a rhoddodd y gorau iddo gan fod gormod o waith papur yn dod o Ewrop. Argymhellwn wrthod gwelliant 5 hefyd. Ni allaf lofnodi datganiadau gwleidyddol na’m gwahoddwyd i’w llofnodi. Fodd bynnag, gallaf dderbyn gwahoddiadau a dderbyniais i fynychu cynadleddau sydd yn deillio o ddatganiadau gwleidyddol o’r fath. Fodd bynnag, byddwn yn chwarae rhan yn Uwchgynhadledd Rhanbarthau Liege gyda chymhwysedd deddfwriaethol—fel y dywedodd John Griffiths—a byddaf yn bresennol yn ystod y gynhadledd honno, neu bydd Mike German yn mynychu yn fy lle.
On the point about sustainable development, there was no rejection of this in the Göteborg summit. We will proceed with it. The point has not been lost and sustainable development, the environment and its compatibility with economic growth is still a major part of the UK and the European Union’s position.
yn Saesneg O ran y pwynt ynglŷn â datblygu cynaliadwy, ni wrthodwyd hyn yn uwchgynhadledd Göteborg. Byddwn yn parhau ag ef. Nid anwybyddwyd y pwynt ac mae datblygu cynaliadwy, yr amgylchedd a’i gyfatebiaeth â thwf economaidd yn parhau’n rhan bwysig o sefyllfa’r DU a’r Undeb Ewropeaidd.
Gwelliant 1 Ieuan Wyn Jones t. 79
Amendment 1 Ieuan Wyn Jones p. 79
GwrthodwydRejected O blaidFor 22 YmatalAbstain 0 Yn erbynAgainst 25
Gwrthodwyd y gwelliant.
Amendment defeated.
Sut y pleidleisiodd yr AelodauHow Members voted
O blaidFor (22)
- Nick Bourne
- Alun Cairns
- David Davies
- Geraint Davies
- Glyn Davies
- Janet Davies
- Jocelyn Davies
- William Graham
- Brian Hancock
- Elin Jones
- Gareth Jones
- Helen Mary Jones
- Ieuan Wyn Jones
- David Lloyd
- David Melding
- Jonathan Morgan
- Rod Richards
- Peter Rogers
- Janet Ryder
- Owen John Thomas
- Dafydd Wigley
- Phil Williams
Yn erbynAgainst (25)
- Lorraine Barrett
- Mick Bates
- Peter Black
- Rosemary Butler
- Christine Chapman
- Jane Davidson
- Andrew Davies
- Ron Davies
- Richard Edwards
- Sue Essex
- Delyth Evans
- Michael German
- Brian Gibbons
- Janice Gregory
- John Griffiths
- Edwina Hart
- Jane Hutt
- Ann Jones
- Peter Law
- Tom Middlehurst
- Rhodri Morgan
- Lynne Neagle
- Alun Pugh
- Karen Sinclair
- Gwenda Thomas
Gwelliant 2 Ieuan Wyn Jones t. 80
Amendment 2 Ieuan Wyn Jones p. 80
GwrthodwydRejected O blaidFor 22 YmatalAbstain 0 Yn erbynAgainst 25
Gwrthodwyd y gwelliant.
Amendment defeated.
Sut y pleidleisiodd yr AelodauHow Members voted
O blaidFor (22)
- Nick Bourne
- Alun Cairns
- David Davies
- Geraint Davies
- Glyn Davies
- Janet Davies
- Jocelyn Davies
- William Graham
- Brian Hancock
- Elin Jones
- Gareth Jones
- Helen Mary Jones
- Ieuan Wyn Jones
- David Lloyd
- David Melding
- Jonathan Morgan
- Rod Richards
- Peter Rogers
- Janet Ryder
- Owen John Thomas
- Dafydd Wigley
- Phil Williams
Yn erbynAgainst (25)
- Lorraine Barrett
- Mick Bates
- Peter Black
- Rosemary Butler
- Christine Chapman
- Jane Davidson
- Andrew Davies
- Ron Davies
- Richard Edwards
- Sue Essex
- Delyth Evans
- Michael German
- Brian Gibbons
- Janice Gregory
- John Griffiths
- Edwina Hart
- Jane Hutt
- Ann Jones
- Peter Law
- Tom Middlehurst
- Rhodri Morgan
- Lynne Neagle
- Alun Pugh
- Karen Sinclair
- Gwenda Thomas
Gwelliant 3 Ieuan Wyn Jones t. 80
Amendment 3 Ieuan Wyn Jones p. 80
GwrthodwydRejected O blaidFor 22 YmatalAbstain 0 Yn erbynAgainst 27
Gwrthodwyd y gwelliant.
Amendment defeated.
Sut y pleidleisiodd yr AelodauHow Members voted
O blaidFor (22)
- Nick Bourne
- Alun Cairns
- David Davies
- Geraint Davies
- Glyn Davies
- Janet Davies
- Jocelyn Davies
- William Graham
- Brian Hancock
- Elin Jones
- Gareth Jones
- Helen Mary Jones
- Ieuan Wyn Jones
- David Lloyd
- David Melding
- Jonathan Morgan
- Rod Richards
- Peter Rogers
- Janet Ryder
- Owen John Thomas
- Dafydd Wigley
- Phil Williams
Yn erbynAgainst (27)
- Lorraine Barrett
- Mick Bates
- Peter Black
- Rosemary Butler
- Christine Chapman
- Jane Davidson
- Andrew Davies
- Ron Davies
- Richard Edwards
- Sue Essex
- Delyth Evans
- Michael German
- Brian Gibbons
- Janice Gregory
- John Griffiths
- Edwina Hart
- Jane Hutt
- Ann Jones
- Peter Law
- Huw Lewis
- Tom Middlehurst
- Rhodri Morgan
- Lynne Neagle
- Alun Pugh
- Jenny Randerson
- Karen Sinclair
- Gwenda Thomas
Gwelliant 4 Ieuan Wyn Jones t. 81
Amendment 4 Ieuan Wyn Jones p. 81
GwrthodwydRejected O blaidFor 22 YmatalAbstain 0 Yn erbynAgainst 28
Gwrthodwyd y gwelliant.
Amendment defeated.
Sut y pleidleisiodd yr AelodauHow Members voted
O blaidFor (22)
- Nick Bourne
- Alun Cairns
- David Davies
- Geraint Davies
- Glyn Davies
- Janet Davies
- Jocelyn Davies
- William Graham
- Brian Hancock
- Elin Jones
- Gareth Jones
- Helen Mary Jones
- Ieuan Wyn Jones
- David Lloyd
- David Melding
- Jonathan Morgan
- Rod Richards
- Peter Rogers
- Janet Ryder
- Owen John Thomas
- Dafydd Wigley
- Phil Williams
Yn erbynAgainst (28)
- Lorraine Barrett
- Mick Bates
- Peter Black
- Rosemary Butler
- Eleanor Burnham
- Christine Chapman
- Jane Davidson
- Andrew Davies
- Ron Davies
- Richard Edwards
- Sue Essex
- Delyth Evans
- Michael German
- Brian Gibbons
- Janice Gregory
- John Griffiths
- Edwina Hart
- Jane Hutt
- Ann Jones
- Peter Law
- Huw Lewis
- Tom Middlehurst
- Rhodri Morgan
- Lynne Neagle
- Alun Pugh
- Jenny Randerson
- Karen Sinclair
- Gwenda Thomas
Gwelliant 5 Ieuan Wyn Jones t. 81
Amendment 5 Ieuan Wyn Jones p. 81
GwrthodwydRejected O blaidFor 13 YmatalAbstain 9 Yn erbynAgainst 28
Gwrthodwyd y gwelliant.
Amendment defeated.
Sut y pleidleisiodd yr AelodauHow Members voted
O blaidFor (13)
- Geraint Davies
- Janet Davies
- Jocelyn Davies
- Brian Hancock
- Elin Jones
- Gareth Jones
- Helen Mary Jones
- Ieuan Wyn Jones
- David Lloyd
- Janet Ryder
- Owen John Thomas
- Dafydd Wigley
- Phil Williams
YmatalAbstain (9)
- Nick Bourne
- Alun Cairns
- David Davies
- Glyn Davies
- William Graham
- David Melding
- Jonathan Morgan
- Rod Richards
- Peter Rogers
Yn erbynAgainst (28)
- Lorraine Barrett
- Mick Bates
- Peter Black
- Eleanor Burnham
- Rosemary Butler
- Christine Chapman
- Jane Davidson
- Andrew Davies
- Ron Davies
- Richard Edwards
- Sue Essex
- Delyth Evans
- Michael German
- Brian Gibbons
- Janice Gregory
- John Griffiths
- Edwina Hart
- Jane Hutt
- Ann Jones
- Peter Law
- Huw Lewis
- Tom Middlehurst
- Rhodri Morgan
- Lynne Neagle
- Alun Pugh
- Jenny Randerson
- Karen Sinclair
- Gwenda Thomas
Gwelliant 6 Ieuan Wyn Jones t. 82
Amendment 6 Ieuan Wyn Jones p. 82
GwrthodwydRejected O blaidFor 13 YmatalAbstain 9 Yn erbynAgainst 28
Gwrthodwyd y gwelliant.
Amendment defeated.
Sut y pleidleisiodd yr AelodauHow Members voted
O blaidFor (13)
- Geraint Davies
- Janet Davies
- Jocelyn Davies
- Brian Hancock
- Elin Jones
- Gareth Jones
- Helen Mary Jones
- Ieuan Wyn Jones
- David Lloyd
- Janet Ryder
- Owen John Thomas
- Dafydd Wigley
- Phil Williams
YmatalAbstain (9)
- Nick Bourne
- Alun Cairns
- David Davies
- Glyn Davies
- William Graham
- David Melding
- Jonathan Morgan
- Rod Richards
- Peter Rogers
Yn erbynAgainst (28)
- Lorraine Barrett
- Mick Bates
- Peter Black
- Eleanor Burnham
- Rosemary Butler
- Christine Chapman
- Jane Davidson
- Andrew Davies
- Ron Davies
- Richard Edwards
- Sue Essex
- Delyth Evans
- Michael German
- Brian Gibbons
- Janice Gregory
- John Griffiths
- Edwina Hart
- Jane Hutt
- Ann Jones
- Peter Law
- Huw Lewis
- Tom Middlehurst
- Rhodri Morgan
- Lynne Neagle
- Alun Pugh
- Jenny Randerson
- Karen Sinclair
- Gwenda Thomas
DerbyniwydAdopted O blaidFor 36 YmatalAbstain 13 Yn erbynAgainst 1
Derbyniwyd y cynnig.
Motion carried.
Sut y pleidleisiodd yr AelodauHow Members voted
O blaidFor (36)
- Lorraine Barrett
- Mick Bates
- Peter Black
- Nick Bourne
- Eleanor Burnham
- Rosemary Butler
- Alun Cairns
- Christine Chapman
- David Davies
- Glyn Davies
- Jane Davidson
- Andrew Davies
- Ron Davies
- Richard Edwards
- Sue Essex
- Michael German
- Brian Gibbons
- William Graham
- Janice Gregory
- John Griffiths
- Edwina Hart
- Jane Hutt
- Ann Jones
- Peter Law
- Huw Lewis
- David Melding
- Tom Middlehurst
- Jonathan Morgan
- Rhodri Morgan
- Lynne Neagle
- Alun Pugh
- Jenny Randerson
- Rod Richards
- Peter Rogers
- Karen Sinclair
- Gwenda Thomas
YmatalAbstain (13)
- Geraint Davies
- Janet Davies
- Jocelyn Davies
- Brian Hancock
- Elin Jones
- Gareth Jones
- Helen Mary Jones
- Ieuan Wyn Jones
- David Lloyd
- Janet Ryder
- Owen John Thomas
- Dafydd Wigley
- Phil Williams
Yn erbynAgainst (1)
- Delyth Evans
Pwynt o Drefn
Point of Order
Point of order. I voted against the motion by accident. I would like to record my wholehearted support for the motion.
Pwynt o drefn. Pleidleisiais yn erbyn y cynnig drwy ddamwain. Hoffwn gofnodi fy nghefnogaeth frwd dros y cynnig.
Dadl Plaid Leiafrifol (Plaid Cymru): Mynediad i Gartrefi Fforddiadwy
Minority Party Debate (Plaid Cymru): Access to Affordable Housing
John Marek The Deputy Presiding Officer spoken in English p. 84
John Marek Y Dirprwy Lywydd siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 84
I have selected amendments 1, 2, 3, 4, 5 and 6 in the name of William Graham. Amendment 2 has been withdrawn.
Yr wyf wedi dethol gwelliannau 1, 2, 3, 4, 5 a 6 yn enw William Graham. Mae gwelliant 2 wedi ei dynnu yn ôl.
In rural communities throughout Wales, the UK and Europe, local people often have difficulty in gaining access to affordable housing. Economic disparities or, in plain language, scarce jobs and low wages in rural areas mean that local people cannot compete if others from more prosperous areas with greater economic strength decide to buy homes in these communities. Beautiful landscapes and exciting coastlines understandably attract city dwellers. If you work in the city and put up with noise, heavy traffic and a polluted atmosphere, and you have above average earnings, you may well want to buy a second home or find means of moving your work, commuting, or retiring to the countryside. That can bring extra money into an area. However, it also increases housing costs above what is affordable locally.
Mewn cymunedau gwledig ledled Cymru, y DU ac Ewrop, caiff pobl leol anhawster yn aml i brynu tai y gallant eu fforddio. Mae anghyfartaleddau economaidd neu, mewn iaith blaen, swyddi prin a chyflogau isel mewn ardaloedd gwledig, yn golygu na all pobl leol gystadlu os bydd eraill o ardaloedd mwy ffyniannus â mwy o gryfder economaidd yn penderfynu prynu tai yn y cymunedau hynny. Yn ddealladwy, mae tirweddau hardd ac arfordiroedd cyffrous yn denu trigolion dinasoedd. Os ydych yn gweithio yn y ddinas ac yn dioddef y sŵn, trafnidiaeth drom ac aer llygredig, ac mae gennych enillion sydd yn uwch na’r cyfartaledd, mae’n bur debyg y byddwch am brynu ail gartref neu ddod o hyd i ffordd o symud eich gwaith, cymudo neu ymddeol i gefn gwlad. Gall hynny ddod ag arian ychwanegol i mewn i ardal. Fodd bynnag, mae hefyd yn cynyddu costau tai fel eu bod yn uwch na’r hyn y gellir ei fforddio yn lleol.
Therefore, there is a conflict of needs and of human rights and freedoms. It is the job of any half-decent government with a social conscience to recognise such a problem and introduce measures to resolve it. Initially, it is the job of government to open up measured and rational debate. A member of the governing party here has suggested that the aim should be for rural Wales to achieve economic parity within the UK—great, we all want that. However, we have waited for decades and rural people cannot afford to continue waiting before they can gain access to reasonable housing. I welcomed the Minister for Finance, Local Government and Communities’ statement on Communities First earlier. However, she acknowledged that it takes time to achieve what we want.
Felly, mae gwrthdaro o ran anghenion a hawliau dynol a rhyddid. Gwaith unrhyw lywodraeth gwerth ei halen gyda chydwybod cymdeithasol yw cydnabod problem o’r fath a chyflwyno mesurau i’w datrys. Yn y lle cyntaf, gwaith llywodraeth yw agor dadl bwyllog a rhesymegol. Mae aelod o’r blaid lywodraethol yma wedi awgrymu y dylai Cymru wledig anelu at gyflawni cydraddoldeb economaidd o fewn y DU—gwych, mae pob un ohonom yn dymuno hynny. Fodd bynnag, yr ydym wedi aros am ddegawdau ac ni all pobl wledig fforddio parhau i aros cyn y gallant brynu tai rhesymol. Croesewais ddatganiad y Gweinidog dros Gyllid, Llywodraeth Leol a Chymunedau ar Roi Cymunedau’n Gyntaf yn gynharach. Fodd bynnag, cydnabu ei bod yn cymryd amser i gyflawni’r hyn yr ydym am ei gael.
Many Welsh-speaking communities are rural. If local people cannot access housing in their communities, they are at a disadvantage as individuals. They are likely to be forced to move away. That is an indictment on our society. If that happens to many individuals in a community, it also changes the culture and character of that community. If it is a Welsh-speaking community, it will join those many others where the language has changed over the past century. Are we, as the Parliament of Wales, and the Government of Wales, prepared for that to happen? From recent comments, one would think that the Welsh language was a threat to others. I do not consider the language issue to be racist. However, if you wish to consider it as such, look at the numbers involved and ask yourself who is threatening whom. Plaid Cymru—The Party of Wales maintains that access to suitable housing in one’s local area is a basic human right, which has to take priority over the right to a second home. Any party that believes in fairness and justice must support that or show itself to be dysfunctional or even worse, prejudiced.
Mae llawer o’r cymunedau sydd yn siarad Cymraeg yn rhai gwledig. Os na all pobl leol brynu tai yn eu cymunedau, maent o dan anfantais fel unigolion. Maent yn debygol o gael eu gorfodi i symud i ffwrdd. Mae hynny’n gondemniad o’n cymdeithas. Os digwydd hynny i lawer o unigolion mewn cymuned, mae hefyd yn newid diwylliant a chymeriad y gymuned honno. Os yw’n gymuned sydd yn siarad Cymraeg, bydd yn ymuno â’r gweddill niferus lle mae’r iaith wedi newid dros y ganrif ddiwethaf. A ydym, fel Senedd Cymru, a Llywodraeth Cymru, yn barod i hynny ddigwydd? O sylwadau diweddar, byddai rhywun yn meddwl fod yr iaith Gymraeg yn fygythiad i eraill. Nid ystyriaf fod mater yr iaith yn hiliol. Fodd bynnag, os dymunwch ei ystyried felly, edrychwch ar y niferoedd dan sylw a gofynnwch i chi eich hun pwy sydd yn bygwth pwy. Mae Plaid Cymru—The Party of Wales yn honni bod y gallu i gael tai addas yn eich ardal leol yn hawl ddynol sylfaenol, sydd yn gorfod blaenori ar yr hawl i gael ail gartref. Rhaid i unrhyw blaid sydd yn credu mewn tegwch a chyfiawnder gefnogi hynny neu ddangos ei bod yn gamweithredol neu’n waeth, yn rhagfarnllyd.
In the absence of rational debate led by the Government of Wales, Plaid Cymru—The Party of Wales consulted widely and met with representatives from many bodies. They included local government, housing professionals and many individuals. For example, we analysed the Lake District planning authority’s policies and formulated recommendations, most of which could be carried out now by the Assembly and local government.
Yn absenoldeb dadl resymegol wedi ei harwain gan Lywodraeth Cymru, ymgynghorodd Plaid Cymru—The Party of Wales yn eang gan gyfarfod â chynrychiolwyr o sefydliadau lawer. Yn eu plith yr oedd llywodraeth leol, pobl broffesiynol ym maes tai a llawer o unigolion. Er enghraifft, dadansoddasom bolisïau ac argymhellion datganedig awdurdod cynllunio Ardal y Llynnoedd, y gallai’r rhan fwyaf ohonynt gael eu cyflawni erbyn hyn gan y Cynulliad a llywodraeth leol.
First, we found an alarming lack of data on housing in Wales, generally and specifically for rural areas. The Assembly must address that. Any remedial action must be founded on good information to be effective, fair and balanced. We expect local government to find out what the needs are to be able to justify its actions. We were interested in the surveys carried out in the Lake District. The costs were cut by using parish councils and other local organisations to do the legwork. Here, Edwina Hart has extended the homebuy scheme so that local people can receive loans of up to 50 per cent to buy a suitable home, paying back 50 per cent on its sale. That scheme is the most important option currently available to address the lack of access to housing. I would argue that more money is needed, but of course we will always argue that point.
Yn gyntaf, canfuom brinder brawychus o ddata ar dai yng Nghymru, yn gyffredinol ac yn benodol ar gyfer ardaloedd gwledig. Rhaid i’r Cynulliad fynd i’r afael â hynny. Rhaid seilio unrhyw gamau adferol ar wybodaeth dda er mwyn bod yn effeithiol, yn deg ac yn gytbwys. Disgwyliwn i lywodraeth leol ganfod beth yw’r anghenion er mwyn gallu cyfiawnhau’r camau a gymer. Yr oedd diddordeb gennym yn yr arolygiadau a gynhaliwyd yn Ardal y Llynnoedd. Gostyngwyd y costau gan ddefnyddio cynghorau plwyf a sefydliadau lleol eraill i wneud y gwaith caib a rhaw. Yma, mae Edwina Hart wedi ymestyn y cynllun prynu cartref fel y gall pobl leol gael benthyciadau o hyd at 50 y cant i brynu cartref addas, gan ad-dalu 50 y cant pan gaiff ei werthu. Y cynllun hwnnw yw’r opsiwn pwysicaf sydd ar gael ar hyn o bryd i ymdrin â’r prinder tai sydd ar gael. Byddwn yn dadlau fod angen mwy o arian, ond wrth gwrs byddwn yn dadlau’r pwynt hwnnw bob tro.
I was also pleased to hear the Minister say a week ago that the right to buy local authority housing will be further restricted in rural areas. I am waiting to hear the exact measures, but we also recommended changes. That is good compared with the days of the Welsh Office. It shows that the Assembly makes a difference. However, it could also give rise to the argument that more power to the Assembly would make an even greater difference. Repair grants and planning permission for upgrading older homes are subject to building regulations. Some older properties cannot meet the exact requirements and we wish to see a relaxation on that. However, that responsibility lies with the UK Government and it would be timely now for a transfer of responsibilities to be requested in the Homes Bill.
Yr oeddwn yn falch hefyd o glywed y Gweinidog yn dweud wythnos yn ôl y caiff yr hawl i brynu tai awdurdod lleol ei gyfyngu ymhellach mewn ardaloedd gwledig. Yr wyf yn aros i glywed yr union fesurau, ond argymellasom ninnau newidiadau hefyd. Mae hynny’n dda o’i gymharu â dyddiau’r Swyddfa Gymreig. Dengys fod y Cynulliad yn gwneud gwahaniaeth. Fodd bynnag, gallai arwain hefyd at ddadl y byddai rhoi mwy o bŵer i’r Cynulliad yn gwneud hyd yn oed mwy o wahaniaeth. Mae grantiau atgyweirio a chaniatâd cynllunio ar gyfer uwchraddio cartrefi hŷn yn amodol ar reoliadau adeiladu. Ni all rhai o’r adeiladau hŷn fodloni’r union ofynion yr hoffem eu gweld yn cael eu llacio. Fodd bynnag, cyfrifoldeb Llywodraeth y DU yw hynny a byddai’n amserol yn awr i ofyn i’r cyfrifoldebau gael eu trosglwyddo yn y Mesur Cartrefi.
Further measures could be made available to local government if it wished to take them up. For example, second homes are a particular difficulty in rural areas. Where there is a high percentage of second homes, a spiral of decline in local services ensues, leaving ghost villages during out of season periods. They become impossible for year-round living. Doubling the council tax could provide extra finances for rates relief, extra buses, community activities or to help small schools. We also suggest that new second homes should require change of use permission and that there should be a presumption against granting it where there are more than 15 per cent of second homes in a local community. The Exmoor National Park planning authority is currently considering making such a decision.
Gallai mesurau pellach fod ar gael i lywodraeth leol pe bai’n dymuno eu derbyn. Er enghraifft, mae ail gartrefi yn anhawster penodol mewn ardaloedd gwledig. Lle mae canran uchel o ail gartrefi, bydd dirywiad graddol mewn gwasanaethau lleol, gan adael pentrefi yn wag yn ystod y tymhorau tawel. Maent yn mynd yn amhosibl i fyw ynddynt drwy gydol y flwyddyn. Gallai dyblu’r dreth gyngor roi arian ychwanegol ar gyfer rhyddhad trethi, bysys ychwanegol, gweithgareddau cymunedol neu i helpu ysgolion bach. Awgrymwn hefyd y dylid gorfodi ail gartrefi newydd i gael caniatâd i newid defnydd ag y dylid tybio yn erbyn ei ganiatáu pan fydd mwy na 15 y cant o ail gartrefi mewn cymuned leol. Mae awdurdod cynllunio Parc Cenedlaethol Exmoor yn ystyried gwneud penderfyniad o’r fath ar hyn o bryd.
Planning applications to build more than 10 houses in a small settlement that has been designated in the local plan should be subject to a language impact assessment similar to the environmental assessment currently demanded under certain circumstances. The Welsh language is already a ‘material planning consideration’ laid out in technical advice note 20 and, I understand that the Minister for Environment proposes similar changes in the new planning policy guidelines.
Dylai ceisiadau cynllunio i adeiladu mwy na 10 tŷ mewn anheddfa fach a ddynodwyd yn y cynllun lleol fod yn destun asesiad effaith ar iaith yn debyg i’r asesiad amgylcheddol sydd yn orfodol ar hyn o bryd o dan amgylchiadau penodol. Mae’r iaith Gymraeg eisoes yn ‘ystyriaeth gynllunio berthnasol’ a nodir yn nodyn cyngor technegol 20 a deallaf fod y Gweinidog dros yr Amgylchedd yn cynnig newidiadau tebyg yn y canllawiau polisi cynllunio newydd.
In designated settlements in the Lake District, the boundary is drawn tightly and development is not normally allowed outside that boundary. If affordable housing for local people is needed, a ‘rural exception site’ on the edge of the village is given planning permission. However, Plaid Cymru thinks that a fairer and more transparent method would be to allocate suitable land in the local plan, which is subject to rigorous scrutiny. To help the tourism industry, we suggest that planning authorities allow tourist development, for example, near a marina.
Mewn anheddau dynodedig yn Ardal y Llynnoedd, nodir y ffin yn fanwl gywir ac ni chaniateir datblygiad fel arfer y tu allan i’r ffin honno. Os bydd angen tai fforddiadwy i bobl leol, rhoddir caniatâd cynllunio ar gyfer ‘safle eithriad gwledig’ ar ymyl y pentref. Fodd bynnag, cred Plaid Cymru y byddai dyrannu tir addas yn y cynllun lleol, sydd yn agored i graffu trylwyr yn ffordd decach a mwy eglur. Er mwyn helpu’r diwydiant twristiaeth, awgrymwn fod awdurdodau cynllunio yn caniatáu datblygiad twristiaeth, er enghraifft, wrth ymyl marina.
Turning to the amendments, there is little point in amendment 1, and I understand that amendment 2 has been withdrawn. We support amendment 6, which was connected to amendment 2, as a means of providing extra education in the Welsh language. We also support amendment 3, which is eminently sensible, but we do not support amendments 4 and 5. On amendment 4, the Government of Wales should be given its formal title and recognition. We expect any future Government to work to this motion. On amendment 5, we support people’s rights to protest peacefully, provided the protest does not do damage and is non-violent. Some of the recent legislation reducing the right to protest is unacceptable in a civilised society.
Gan droi at y gwelliannau, nid oes fawr o ddiben i welliant 1, a deallaf fod gwelliant 2 wedi ei dynnu’n ôl. Cefnogwn welliant 6, a oedd yn gysylltiedig â gwelliant 2, fel ffordd o ddarparu addysg ychwanegol yn yr iaith Gymraeg. Cefnogwn welliant 3 hefyd sydd yn dra synhwyrol, ond ni chefnogwn welliannau 4 a 5. O ran gwelliant 4, dylid rhoi ei theitl a’i chydnabyddiaeth ffurfiol i Lywodraeth Cymru. Disgwyliwn i unrhyw Lywodraeth yn y dyfodol weithio yn unol â’r cynnig hwn. O ran gwelliant 5, cefnogwn hawliau pobl i wrthdystio’n heddychlon, ar yr amod nad yw’r gwrthdystiad yn gwneud difrod a’i fod yn ddi-drais. Mae peth o’r ddeddfwriaeth ddiweddar sydd yn lleihau’r hawl i brotestio yn annerbyniol mewn cymdeithas waraidd.
In proposing this motion, I make it clear that policies and actions must not discriminate between Welsh and non-Welsh speakers in accessing affordable housing, for rent, to buy, or to build. Plaid Cymru—The Party of Wales has initiated this debate rationally. We hope that it continues similarly. We have done it without access to the resources of the civil service or to millions of pounds of party funds. I applaud the Minister for Finance, Local Government and Communities in the actions that she has already taken to address the issue, and I hope that her Government will support the motion.
Wrth gynnig y cynnig hwn, egluraf fod yn rhaid i bolisïau a gweithredoedd beidio â gwahaniaethu rhwng siaradwyr Cymraeg a rhai di-Gymraeg o ran cael tai fforddiadwy i’w rhentu, i’w prynu neu i’w hadeiladu. Mae Plaid Cymru—The Party of Wales wedi dechrau’r ddadl hon mewn ffordd resymegol. Gobeithiwn y bydd yn parhau felly. Gwnaethom hynny heb ddefnyddio adnoddau’r gwasanaeth sifil na miliynau o bunnoedd o gronfeydd y blaid. Cymeradwyaf y Gweinidog dros Gyllid, Llywodraeth Leol a Chymunedau am y camau a gymerodd eisoes i ymdrin â’r mater, a gobeithiaf y bydd ei Llywodraeth yn cefnogi’r cynnig.
I propose amendment 1: in point 1, delete ‘notes’ and insert ‘acknowledges’.
Cynigiaf welliant 1: ym mhwynt 1, dileu ‘nodi’ ac ychwanegu ‘cydnabod’.
William Graham (continued) spoken in English p. 89
William Graham (parhad) siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 89
I propose amendment 3. Insert as a new point between points 1 and 2:
Cynigiaf welliant 3. Ychwanegu pwynt newydd rhwng pwyntiau 1 a 2:
William Graham (continued) spoken in English p. 89
William Graham (parhad) siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 89
I propose amendment 4. In point 2 delete ‘Government of Wales’ and insert ‘Liberal Democratic-Labour coalition’.
Cynigiaf welliant 4. Ym mhwynt 2, dileu ‘Llywodraeth Cymru’ ac ychwanegu ‘clymblaid y Democratiaid Rhyddfrydol –Llafur’.
William Graham (continued) spoken in English p. 89
William Graham (parhad) siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 89
I propose amendment 5. At the end of the motion add a further point:
Cynigiaf welliant 5. Ar ddiwedd y cynnig ychwanegu pwynt pellach:
William Graham (continued) spoken in English p. 89
William Graham (parhad) siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 89
I propose amendment 6. At the end of the motion add a further point:
Cynigiaf welliant 6. Ar ddiwedd y cynnig ychwanegu pwynt pellach:
William Graham (continued) spoken in English p. 89
William Graham (parhad) siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 89
There is no doubt that there are many communities in Wales, both urban and rural, where there is an urgent need for innovative and positive measures to address the problem of people not being able to gain access to the property market in their own neighbourhood. The Welsh Conservative group acknowledges the realities of obtaining affordable housing. This is a problem in areas of Cardiff, Newport and Swansea, just as it is in Aberporth, Dolgoch or Aberdaron. To have to move away from the community where you grew up is traumatic, more so if the reason is that you can no longer afford to live in your own neighbourhood. It will make little difference to your self-esteem whether the factor that determines the high price of housing, and the reason why you are forced to move away, is the desirability of the location, the natural beauty of the area or the lack of industries within the vicinity.
Heb os, mae llawer o gymunedau yng Nghymru, rhai trefol a gwledig, lle mae angen dybryd am fesurau arloesol a chadarnhaol i fynd i’r afael â phroblem pobl yn methu â chael mynediad i’r farchnad eiddo yn eu cymdogaeth hwy eu hunain. Mae grŵp Ceidwadwyr Cymru yn cydnabod beth yw’r gwir sefyllfa o ran cael tai fforddiadwy. Mae hon yn broblem mewn ardaloedd yng Nghaerdydd, Casnewydd ac Abertawe, fel y mae yn Aberporth, Dolgoch neu Aberdaron. Mae gorfod symud i ffwrdd o’r gymuned lle y cawsoch eich magu yn drawmatig, a hyd yn oed yn fwy felly pa un ai mai’r rheswm yw am na allwch fforddio byw yn eich cymdogaeth eich hun bellach. Ni wna fawr ddim gwahaniaeth i’ch hunan-barch os mai’r ffactor sydd yn penderfynu ar bris uchel tai, a’r rheswm pam y cewch eich gorfodi i symud i ffwrdd, yw pa mor ddymunol yw’r ardal, harddwch naturiol yr ardal neu’r prinder diwydiannau yn yr ardal.
The solution to these issues is the same for urban and rural problems. It requires action to rejuvenate the Welsh economy. This motion focuses on the plight of our rural communities and rural economy, which were suffering way before the foot and mouth disease outbreak. It requires a long memory to recall the times when our farming communities were free to farm their land, to take the produce of their labours to market, where it could be bought by people who had the highest regard for its quality and full confidence in its safety. It is a buoyant, thriving economy that will be the catalyst to people wishing to continue living in rural Wales. It will require action to promote inward investment, to encourage local people to develop their entrepreneurial skills and to support the expansion of our small-scale indigenous businesses, and not a consideration of the language that you speak, to begin to address this problem. The motion suggests that it is the lack of affordable housing that causes people to move from these communities, and therefore leads to a decline in the numbers of those people who use Welsh as their first language. We contend that there is no link between these two problems. People will remain within their communities if there are true opportunities for employment that will allow them to afford their own homes.
Yr un ateb sydd i’r materion hyn ar gyfer problemau trefol a gwledig. Mae’n galw am gymryd camau i adfer economi Cymru. Mae’r cynnig hwn yn canolbwyntio ar helynt ein cymunedau gwledig a’n heconomi wledig, a oedd yn dioddef ymhell cyn clwy’r traed a’r genau. Mae angen cof hir i gofio’r adegau pan oedd ein cymunedau ffermio yn rhydd i ffermio eu tir, i fynd â chynnyrch eu llafur i’r farchnad, lle y gallai gael ei brynu gan bobl a oedd yn parchu ei ansawdd ac a oedd yn hyderus ei fod yn ddiogel. Economi fywiog, ffyniannus a fydd yn gatalydd i bobl sydd yn dymuno parhau i fyw yng Nghymru wledig. Bydd angen cymryd camau i hyrwyddo mewnfuddsoddiad, i annog pobl leol i ddatblygu eu sgiliau entrepreneuraidd ac i gefnogi busnesau cynhenid ar raddfa fach wrth iddynt ehangu, ac nid ystyried yr iaith a siaredir, er mwyn dechrau mynd i’r afael â’r broblem hon. Mae’r cynnig yn awgrymu mai prinder tai fforddiadwy sydd yn achosi i bobl i symud allan o’r cymunedau hyn, ac felly sydd yn arwain at ostyngiad yn nifer y bobl sydd yn defnyddio’r Gymraeg fel eu hiaith gyntaf. Dadleuwn nad oes unrhyw gysylltiad rhwng y ddwy broblem hon. Bydd pobl yn aros o fewn eu cymunedau os oes gwir gyfleoedd cyflogaeth a fydd yn caniatáu iddynt allu fforddio eu cartrefi eu hunain.
At present, our rural businesses require financial support and investment to ensure their survival before they can consider plans for expansion or development. A co-ordinated strategy is vital to sustain the individual requirements of the diversity of the rural economy. It is to achieving these aims that we should direct the Assembly, to allow those businesses that rely on tourism or agriculture or the provision of services to increase their expectations for local employment. Achieve these aims, and you retain those people who have grown up in these communities and who care about their future. It is to emphasise the lack of impact on the housing market of being able to speak Welsh that I have asked for amendment 2 to be withdrawn.
Ar hyn o bryd, mae angen cefnogaeth ariannol a buddsoddiad ar ein busnesau gwledig er mwyn sicrhau y byddant yn goroesi cyn y gallant ystyried cynlluniau i ehangu neu ddatblygu. Mae strategaeth gydgysylltiedig yn holl bwysig i gynnal gofynion unigol amrywiaeth yr economi wledig. Dylem gyfeirio’r Cynulliad tuag at geisio cyflawni’r nodau hyn, i ganiatáu i’r busnesau hynny sydd yn dibynnu ar dwristiaeth neu amaethyddiaeth neu ar ddarparu gwasanaethau i gynyddu eu disgwyliadau ar gyfer cyflogaeth leol. O gyflawni’r nodau hynny, byddwch yn cadw’r bobl a fagwyd yn y cymunedau hynny ac sydd yn pryderu ynglŷn â’u dyfodol. Gofynnais i welliant 2 gael ei dynnu’n ôl er mwyn pwysleisio’r diffyg effaith y mae’r gallu i siarad Cymraeg yn ei gael ar y farchnad dai.
The Welsh Conservative Group is as committed today to an active, living Welsh language, as our party was when we set up S4C and put the Welsh Language Act 1993 on the statute. Those who share with Simon Glyn a belief that we should prevent non-Welsh speaking people moving into these communities, or those who propose doubling the council tax for second homes, do a great disservice to those communities and to our nation.
Mae Grŵp Ceidwadwyr Cymru yn ymrwymedig heddiw i iaith Gymraeg weithredol, fyw, fel yr oedd ein plaid pan sefydlasom S4C a rhoi Deddf yr Iaith Gymraeg 1993 ar y llyfr statud. Mae’r rheini sydd yn cyd-fynd â Simon Glyn y dylem atal pobl ddi-Gymraeg rhag symud i mewn i’r cymunedau hyn, neu’r rheini sydd yn bwriadu dyblu’r dreth gyngor ar gyfer ail gartrefi, yn gwneud niwed i’r cymunedau hynny ac i’n gwlad.
A more strongly worded condemnation is required for the direct action campaign proposed by Cymdeithas yr Iaith Gymraeg. If its members care for the Welsh language and if they are concerned with finding positive answers to this problem, they would not undertake action that can only have one effect—that is, to dissuade anyone who is considering committing themselves to the inward investment that is so desperately required to rejuvenate our rural economy.
Mae angen condemniad wedi ei eirio’n gryfach ar gyfer yr ymgyrch gweithredu uniongyrchol a gynigir gan Gymdeithas yr Iaith Gymraeg. Os yw ei haelodau yn pryderu ynglŷn â’r iaith Gymraeg ac os ydynt am gael atebion cadarnhaol i’r broblem hon, ni fyddent yn cymryd camau a fyddai ond yn cael un effaith yn unig—sef, cymell rhywun i beidio ag ystyried ymrwymo eu hunain i’r mewnfuddsoddiad y mae angen mor ddybryd amdano i adfywio ein heconomi wledig.
I trust that all Assembly Members will condemn this direct action, and I hope that those who seek to carry out the actions will realise the futility of their plans and the immense harm that it will inflict on the communities that they wish to preserve.
Hyderaf y bydd pob Aelod o’r Cynulliad yn condemnio’r gweithredu uniongyrchol hwn, a gobeithiaf y bydd y rheini sydd yn ceisio cyflawni’r camau yn sylweddoli oferedd eu cynlluniau a’r niwed aruthrol a gaiff ar y cymunedau y maent yn dymuno eu diogelu.
The only direct action that I might support would be the loyalty exemplified by some Plaid Cymru Assembly Members in support of saving ‘Private Ieuan’ by dragging him off his steep learning curve and back into the real political world.
Yr unig weithredu uniongyrchol y byddwn yn ei gefnogi fyddai’r teyrngarwch a ddangoswyd gan rai o Aelodau Plaid Cymru yn y Cynulliad wrth gefnogi achub ‘Preifat Ieuan’ drwy ei lusgo oddi ar ei gromlin dysgu serth ac yn ôl i’r byd gwleidyddol go iawn.
The Welsh Conservative group also acknowledges that we must look beyond the Welsh Language Act 1993 and S4C if we are to ensure a flourishing, strong and fluent use of Welsh as a method of communication in all our communities, both urban and rural. We do not envisage a future where you can visit communities that are trapped in the mists of time to hear people talking to each other in Welsh. The preservation of our national language is best ensured if everyone is encouraged to learn the language, and then given opportunities to speak Welsh regularly. That is the thinking behind amendment 6 in my name.
Mae grŵp Ceidwadwyr Cymru yn cydnabod hefyd bod yn rhaid inni edrych y tu hwnt i Ddeddf yr Iaith Gymraeg 1993 ac S4C os ydym i sicrhau y defnyddir y Gymraeg mewn ffordd lewyrchus, gref a rhugl fel dull o gyfathrebu ymhob un o’n cymunedau, yn drefol a gwledig. Ni ragwelwn ddyfodol lle y gallwch ymweld â chymunedau sydd wedi eu dal yn y dyddiau a fu i wrando ar bobl yn siarad â’i gilydd yn Gymraeg. Y ffordd orau o ddiogelu ein hiaith genedlaethol yw drwy annog pawb i ddysgu’r iaith, ac yna rhoi cyfleoedd iddynt siarad Cymraeg yn rheolaidd. Dyna’r meddylfryd y tu ôl i welliant 6 yn fy enw i.
Such an idea is not a unique national concept. In Israel, there is a modern, recognised intensive language course to enable those who emigrate to Israel to learn modern Hebrew. The Ulpan system allows access to different levels of the Hebrew language, along with Government recognition and support.
Nid yw syniad o’r fath yn gysyniad cenedlaethol unigryw. Yn Israel, mae cwrs iaith dwys modern, cydnabyddedig i alluogi’r rheini sydd yn ymfudo i Israel i ddysgu Hebraeg fodern. Mae system Wlpan yn rhoi cyfle i ddysgu ar lefelau gwahanol o’r iaith Hebraeg, ynghyd â chydnabyddiaeth a chefnogaeth y Llywodraeth.
We have the same commitment to preserving our language as they do in Israel. If our language is to survive, it needs a commitment to rejuvenate the economies of the communities who currently speak Welsh, together with a national campaign to encourage people to learn and use the language. The answer does not lie within the sentiments of this motion.
Mae gennym yr un ymrwymiad i ddiogelu ein hiaith ag sydd ganddynt yn Israel. Os yw ein hiaith i oroesi, mae angen ymrwymiad arni i adfywio economïau y cymunedau sydd yn siarad Cymraeg ar hyn o bryd, ynghyd ag ymgyrch genedlaethol i annog pobl i ddysgu a defnyddio’r iaith. Nid yw’r ateb i’w ganfod o fewn teimladau’r cynnig hwn.
I will go into more detail about how Plaid Cymru believes that the planning system could and should be used to help alleviate the rural housing crisis. The purpose of the planning system is, after all, to control and to manage development. This could be done much more effectively in the context of rural housing.
Af i fwy o fanylion ynglŷn â sut y cred Plaid Cymru y gallai ac y dylai’r system gynllunio gael ei defnyddio i leddfu’r argyfwng tai gwledig. Diben y system gynllunio, wedi’r cyfan, yw rheoli datblygiad. Gellid gwneud hyn yn fwy effeithiol o lawer yng nghyd-destun tai gwledig.
Janet Davies outlined our two major proposals in relation to planning, namely a change of use for permanent homes being converted into holiday homes and the option of a language impact assessment on developments of over 10 houses in some communities. Both proposals are eminently reasonable.
Amlinellodd Janet Davies ein dau brif gynnig mewn perthynas â chynllunio, sef newid defnydd cartrefi parhaol sydd yn cael eu troi yn gartrefi gwyliau a’r opsiwn o gynnal asesiad effaith ar iaith ar ddatblygiadau o fwy na 10 tŷ mewn rhai cymunedau. Mae’r ddau gynnig yn amlwg yn dra rhesymol.
The first proposal would be far from an onerous requirement. At present, change of use permission is required if a property owner wishes to sell a property for a purpose that would materially affect the nature of the community, such as converting a home into a shop or a restaurant. Plaid Cymru would submit that a change of use from a permanent home to a holiday home materially affects the nature of a community. The principle is therefore simple to extend and could be done without causing controversy. That is not to suggest that any such application for a change of use should always be refused. As Janet said, our proposal is that a presumption against change should only be introduced when over 15 per cent of the homes in a community are second homes. Of course, it has been suggested to us that that level is too high. Plaid Cymru is also clear that this proposal should only apply to any new changes of use, and that any retrospective proposal would be unfair. It is, therefore, a moderate and sensible suggestion.
Byddai’r cynnig cyntaf ymhell o fod yn ofyniad rhwymedigaethus. Ar hyn o bryd, mae’n ofynnol cael caniatâd i newid defnydd os bydd perchennog eiddo yn dymuno gwerthu eiddo at ddiben a fyddai’n cael effaith amlwg ar natur y gymuned, fel troi cartref yn siop neu dŷ bwyta. Byddai Plaid Cymru yn cytuno bod newid defnydd o gartref parhaol i gartref gwyliau yn cael effaith amlwg ar natur cymuned. Mae’r egwyddor, felly, yn hawdd i’w hymestyn a gellid gwneud hynny heb achosi dadl. Nid yw hynny’n awgrymu y dylid gwrthod unrhyw gais o’r fath ar gyfer newid defnydd bob tro. Fel y dywedodd Janet, ein cynnig yw y dylid ond cyflwyno tybiaeth yn erbyn newid pan fydd dros 15 y cant o’r cartrefi mewn cymuned yn ail gartrefi. Wrth gwrs, awgrymwyd inni fod y lefel yn rhy uchel. Mae Plaid Cymru yn glir hefyd y dylai’r cynnig hwn ond fod yn berthnasol i unrhyw newid newydd mewn defnydd, ac y byddai unrhyw gynnig ôl-weithredol yn annheg. Felly, mae’n awgrym rhesymol a synhwyrol.
It has been accepted for a long time that the effect of any proposed new development on the Welsh language can be taken into account by planning authorities when they consider applications. This may be news to Peter Black. Although it is worrying that a Deputy Minister is so ill informed, that appears to be the case. Peter may not believe that we can frame our planning regulations around the Welsh language, but his ministerial colleague, Sue Essex, mercifully disagrees. The Government’s new draft ‘Planning Policy Wales’ has a whole section—section 4.8, if Peter wants to check it—on how the protection of the Welsh language could and should be considered in planning.
Derbyniwyd ers amser hir y gall awdurdodau cynllunio ystyried effaith unrhyw ddatblygiad newydd arfaethedig ar yr iaith Gymraeg pan fyddant yn ystyried ceisiadau. Efallai fod hyn yn newyddion i Peter Black. Er bod y ffaith bod Dirprwy Weinidog mor anwybodus yn peri gofid, ymddengys mai felly y mae. Efallai nad yw Peter yn credu y gallwn lunio ein rheoliadau cynllunio o amgylch yr iaith Gymraeg ond, diolch byth, mae ei gyd-Aelod gweinidogol, Sue Essex, yn anghytuno. Mae gan fersiwn drafft newydd y Llywodraeth ‘Polisi Cynllunio Cymru’ adran gyfan—adran 4.8, os yw Peter am gael golwg arni—ar sut y gallai ac y dylai diogelu’r iaith Gymraeg gael ei hystyried wrth gynllunio.
I have changed my mind about this. After initial discussions with colleagues in local government, I felt that, if the full package of measures to protect all communities was in place, the language would automatically be protected where it is a community language. As a result, I felt that perhaps specific protection was not required. However, having read the evidence presented to the taskforce, I am convinced that local authorities need every possible tool to enable them to defend their communities against inappropriate developments, including the effect of those developments on the Welsh language.
Newidiais fy meddwl ynglŷn â hyn. Ar ôl trafodaethau cychwynnol â chydweithwyr mewn llywodraeth leol, teimlais, pe bai’r pecyn cyfan o fesurau i ddiogelu pob cymuned ar waith, y byddai’r iaith yn awtomatig yn cael ei diogelu lle mae’n iaith gymunedol. O ganlyniad, teimlais efallai nad oedd angen diogelwch penodol. Fodd bynnag, ar ôl darllen y dystiolaeth a gyflwynwyd i’r tasglu, yr wyf yn argyhoeddedig bod angen pob dull posibl ar yr awdurdodau lleol i’w galluogi i amddiffyn eu cymunedau rhag datblygiadau amhriodol, gan gynnwys effaith y datblygiadau hynny ar yr iaith Gymraeg.
Our proposal is simple. If the development of more than 10 houses is proposed, then the local authority should be able—and I stress ‘should be able’, it should be a matter for them to decide—to insist that a language impact assessment is undertaken. Just that. That does not involve discriminating against individuals on the basis of which language they speak. Our taskforce report strongly stresses this. Anyone in or outside this Chamber, who knows anything about any of my colleagues in Plaid Cymru—The Party of Wales or about me, knows perfectly well that we would not tolerate, let alone promote, such discrimination.
Mae ein cynnig yn un syml. Os cynigir datblygu mwy na 10 tŷ, yna dylai’r awdurdod lleol fod yn gallu—a phwysleisiaf ‘fod yn gallu’, gan mai nhw ddylai benderfynu—mynnu y cynhelir asesiad effaith ar iaith. Dyna’i gyd. Nid yw hynny’n golygu gwahaniaethu yn erbyn unigolion ar sail pa iaith a siaradant. Mae adroddiad ein tasglu yn pwysleisio hyn yn gryf. Gŵyr unrhyw un y tu mewn neu’r tu allan i’r Siambr hon, a ŵyr unrhyw beth am unrhyw un o’m cyd-Aelodau ym Mhlaid Cymru—The Party of Wales neu amdanaf fi, yn iawn na fyddem yn goddef, heb sôn am hyrwyddo, gwahaniaethu o’r fath.
I will not apologise for believing that the Welsh language deserves protection, that it cannot survive unless it survives as a community language and that the Government has a responsibility to ensure its survival. I believe that many Members in this Chamber share that belief and I am proud to stand by it. If sharing that belief means that the Chair of the Conservative Party in Llanelli, unchecked by his party nationally, can call my colleagues and myself ‘neo-nazis’, and that some voices in the Labour or Liberal Democrat Party can call me divisive or racist, then I will have to live with that. I know that the people of Wales, Welsh and English speaking, know better. They know that the language is precious and they are proud of it. They know that it is endangered and want it to survive. They know that defending it does not make you a racist. People who only seek the right to live in their communities and preserve their heritage are branded as racist. This is particularly sickening at a time when real racism is leading to violence on the streets of England, and when Black Welsh people are assaulted and murdered by racists in Wales. I appeal to colleagues, in this Assembly, and beyond, to abandon such rhetoric and work towards a consensus to help solve this real problem.
Nid ymddiheuraf am gredu fod angen diogelu’r iaith Gymraeg, na all oroesi oni fydd yn goroesi fel iaith gymuned a bod gan y Llywodraeth gyfrifoldeb dros sicrhau ei goroesiad. Credaf fod llawer o’r Aelodau yn y Siambr hon yn cyd-fynd â hynny ac yr wyf yn falch o lynu wrth hynny. Os yw rhannu’r gred honno yn golygu y gall Cadeirydd y Blaid Geidwadol yn Llanelli, heb gael ei rwystro gan ei blaid yn genedlaethol, alw fy nghyd-Aelodau a minnau yn ‘neo-natsïaid’ a bod rhai yn y Blaid Lafur neu Blaid y Democratiaid Rhyddfrydol yn fy ngalw yn un sydd yn achosi rhwyg neu yn berson hiliol, yna bydd yn rhaid imi ddioddef hynny. Gwn fod pobl Cymru, y rhai Cymraeg a’r di-Gymraeg, yn gwybod yn well. Gwyddant fod yr iaith yn werthfawr ac maent yn falch ohoni. Gwyddant ei bod mewn perygl ac maent am iddi oroesi. Gwyddant nad yw ei hamddiffyn yn eich gwneud yn hiliol. Gelwir pobl sydd ond yn ceisio’r hawl i fyw yn eu cymunedau a diogelu eu treftadaeth yn hiliol. Mae hwn yn arbennig o ffiaidd ar adeg pan fo hiliaeth wirioneddol yn arwain at drais ar strydoedd Lloegr, a phan ymosodir ar bobl Gymreig groenddu a’u llofruddio gan bobl hiliol yng Nghymru. Ymbiliaf ar y cyd-Aelodau, yn y Cynulliad hwn, a thu hwnt, i roi’r gorau i rethreg o’r fath a gweithio tuag at gonsensws i helpu i ddatrys y broblem wirioneddol hon.
This motion asks the Government of Wales to recognise this crisis and its impact on the Welsh language, and to take action. I do not believe that that is too much to ask. I do not believe that asking for it makes me a racist.
Mae’r cynnig hwn yn gofyn i Lywodraeth Cymru gydnabod yr argyfwng hwn a’i effaith ar yr iaith Gymraeg, ac i weithredu. Ni chredaf fod hynny’n ormod i’w ofyn. Ni chredaf fod gofyn am hynny yn fy ngwneud i yn berson hiliol.
Gwenda Thomas siaradwyd yn Gymraeg ac yn Saesneg t. 94
Gwenda Thomas spoken in Welsh and English p. 94
Nid yw’n syndod bod y cenedlaetholwyr wedi dal yn ôl tan yn awr cyn dod â’r cynnig hwn gerbron y Cynulliad. Yn ystod y misoedd diwethaf, ac yn enwedig yn ystod ymgyrch yr etholiad cyffredinol, yr oeddent yn benderfynol o osgoi dadlau am faterion a oedd yn peri embaras iddynt. Annibyniaeth, cartrefi mewn ardaloedd gwledig a’r iaith Gymraeg oedd y pynciau olaf yr oeddent eisiau eu trafod. Wedi gwrando ar yr hyn a ddywedodd Janet Davies ar welliant 5, tybed a yw llongyfarchiadau Cymdeithas yr Iaith Gymraeg, a welwyd mewn e-bost, yn embaras pellach iddynt y bore yma.
in Welsh It is no surprise that the nationalists have held back until now before bringing this motion before the Assembly. During the last few months, and during the general election campaign in particular, they were determined to avoid debating matters that would cause them embarrassment. The last subjects that they wanted to discuss were independence, homes in rural areas and the Welsh language. Having listened to what Janet Davies said about amendment 5, I wonder whether congratulations from Cymdeithas yr Iaith Gymraeg, seen in an e-mail, is a further embarrassment to them this morning.
During my visit to north Wales recently, I spoke to many people, including many of my relatives. There was a strong feeling that the nationalists were avoiding the issues that have, traditionally, been important to them. I was surprised to hear Plaid Cymru being referred to as ‘Y Blaid Fach’ or ‘The Small Party’.
yn Saesneg Yn ystod fy ymweliad â gogledd Cymru yn ddiweddar, siaradais â llawer o bobl, gan gynnwys llawer o’m perthnasau. Yr oedd teimlad cryf bod y cenedlaetholwyr yn osgoi’r materion sydd, yn draddodiadol, wedi bod yn bwysig iddynt. Yr oeddwn yn synnu i glywed cyfeiriad at Blaid Cymru fel ‘Y Blaid Fach’.
I do not deny the importance of housing. However, other issues have a bearing on the sustainability of the Welsh language. The role of the traditional Welsh primary school within rural communities must be valued. Although Welsh-medium education is important, there is also a need to create a system that prevents the anglicising of schools that are not Welsh-medium. After the opening of Ysgol Gyfun Ystalyfera, which is an excellent bilingual comprehensive school, Welsh ceased to be taught as a first language in Cwm Tawe Comprehensive School. However, I am glad to say that this has now been reintroduced. There is a lack of Welsh teachers and teachers who can teach through the medium of Welsh—
yn Saesneg Nid wyf yn gwadu pwysigrwydd tai. Fodd bynnag, mae materion eraill yn dylanwadu ar gynaladwyedd yr iaith Gymraeg. Rhaid i rôl yr ysgol gynradd Gymraeg draddodiadol o fewn cymunedau gwledig gael ei gwerthfawrogi. Er bod addysg drwy gyfrwng y Gymraeg yn bwysig, mae angen creu system hefyd sydd yn atal ysgolion nad ydynt yn rhai cyfrwng Cymraeg rhag cael eu Seisnigeiddio. Ar ôl agor Ysgol Gyfun Ystalyfera, sydd yn ysgol gyfun ddwyieithog ragorol, rhoddwyd y gorau i ddysgu Cymraeg fel iaith gyntaf yn Ysgol Gyfun Cwm Tawe. Fodd bynnag, yr wyf yn falch o ddweud ei bod yn cael ei dysgu yno unwaith eto. Mae prinder athrawon Cymraeg ac athrawon a all ddysgu drwy gyfrwng y Gymraeg—
Alun Cairns a gododd—
Alun Cairns rose—
Gwenda Thomas siaradwyd yn Gymraeg ac yn Saesneg t. 95
Gwenda Thomas spoken in Welsh and English p. 95
Un funud Alun, os gwelwch yn dda.
in Welsh One minute please, Alun.
Developing the language as a community language is important, and the role of Welsh language initiatives, such as Menter Castell-nedd Port Talbot must be recognised. There is also the issue of the cost of Welsh translation in our Assembly. Could some of these resources be better used to protect and nurture the Welsh language? Does it really mean anything to a child or teacher in the Gwauncaegurwen traditional Welsh primary school that every document produced by the National Assembly for Wales is translated into Welsh, including legislation on potatoes originating in Egypt? Important though that legislation is—
yn Saesneg Mae datblygu’r iaith fel iaith gymunedol yn bwysig, a rhaid cydnabod rôl mentrau iaith, fel Menter Castell-nedd Port Talbot. Mae mater cost cyfieithu i’r Gymraeg yn ein Cynulliad hefyd yn rhywbeth i’w ystyried. A ellid defnyddio rhai o’r adnoddau hyn yn well i ddiogelu a meithrin yr iaith Gymraeg? A yw’n golygu unrhyw beth mewn gwirionedd i blentyn neu athro yn ysgol gynradd Gymraeg draddodiadol Gwauncaegurwen bod pob dogfen a gynhyrchir gan Gynulliad Cenedlaethol Cymru yn cael ei chyfieithu i’r Gymraeg, gan gynnwys deddfwriaeth ar datws o’r Aifft? Er mor bwysig yw’r ddeddfwriaeth honno—
Yr wyf am danlinellu un o bwyntiau Gwenda ynglŷn ag addysg drwy gyfrwng y Gymraeg yn Ysgol Gyfun Cwm Tawe a phob ysgol cyfrwng Saesneg. A yw’n fodlon cymeradwyo’r Llywodraeth Geidwadol ddiwethaf a gyflwynodd y polisïau hynny?
I want to underline one of Gwenda’s points about Welsh medium education in Cwm Tawe Comprehensive School and every English medium school. Is she willing to commend the last Conservative Government, which introduced those policies?
Gwenda Thomas siaradwyd yn Gymraeg ac yn Saesneg t. 96
Gwenda Thomas spoken in Welsh and English p. 96
Byddai’n anodd i mi gymeradwyo’r Blaid Dorïaidd ar unrhyw beth, Alun.
in Welsh It would be difficult for me to commend the Tory Party on anything, Alun.
I would like to suggest that coastal rural communities suffer from a different problem to rural communities elsewhere. In my constituency, for example, house prices are not high, despite many being bought by non-local people. Affordable housing and sustaining the Welsh language are linked to the eradication of poverty and the development of a strong economy. While there must be a concentrated effort to sustain and develop the Welsh language, it must also be recognised that much is already being done. There is much support from non-Welsh speakers and, in my opinion, direct action is not the way forward. It could prove detrimental to the future of the language and to the economic wellbeing of our country.
yn Saesneg Hoffwn awgrymu fod cymunedau gwledig arfordirol yn dioddef o broblem wahanol i gymunedau gwledig mewn mannau eraill. Yn fy etholaeth i, er enghraifft, nid yw prisiau tai yn uchel, er bod llawer o bobl nad ydynt yn bobl leol wedi eu prynu. Mae tai fforddiadwy a chynnal yr iaith Gymraeg yn gysylltiedig â dileu tlodi a datblygu economi gref. Er y dylid gwneud ymdrech fawr i gynnal a datblygu’r iaith Gymraeg, rhaid cydnabod hefyd bod llawer eisoes yn cael ei wneud. Ceir llawer o gefnogaeth gan siaradwyr di-Gymraeg ac, yn fy marn i, nid gweithredu uniongyrchol yw’r ffordd ymlaen. Gallai fod yn niweidiol i ddyfodol yr iaith ac i les economaidd ein gwlad.
At the Local Government and Housing Committee meeting on 6 June, there was a discussion about the importance of the Welsh language in certain communities and the need to ensure that those communities are protected effectively. I said at the meeting that those issues were relevant to the Culture Committee’s review of the Welsh language and, therefore, the Committee plans to schedule a slot to consider housing and the Welsh language. While I recognise that there is an urgent need to safeguard and develop the Welsh language and to realise the differing housing problems that exist in different communities, I am confident that the National Assembly is developing, and will develop, clear, measurable policies and meaningful initiatives under the leadership of Labour—the true party of the whole of Wales.
yn Saesneg Yng nghyfarfod y Pwyllgor Llywodraeth Leol a Thai ar 6 Mehefin, bu trafodaeth ar bwysigrwydd yr iaith Gymraeg mewn rhai cymunedau a’r angen i sicrhau y diogelir y cymunedau hynny mewn ffordd effeithiol. Dywedais yn y cyfarfod fod y materion hynny yn berthnasol i adolygiad y Pwyllgor Diwylliant o’r iaith Gymraeg ac felly mae’r Pwyllgor yn bwriadu trefnu amser i ystyried tai a’r iaith Gymraeg. Er fy mod yn cydnabod bod angen dybryd i ddiogelu a datblygu’r iaith Gymraeg ac i sylweddoli’r problemau tai gwahanol sydd yn bodoli mewn cymunedau gwahanol, yr wyf yn hyderus bod y Cynulliad Cenedlaethol yn datblygu, ac y bydd yn datblygu polisïau mesuradwy clir a mentrau ystyrlon o dan arweinyddiaeth Llafur—gwir blaid Cymru gyfan.
The issue is recognising the problem. There are two separate problems, namely the issue of providing housing to meet local needs and the protection of communities. While the other parties wring their hands in horror, Plaid Cymru is addressing that problem. This report makes a series of perfectly sensible and legitimate proposals designed to enable people, whatever their language, to be able to buy or rent affordable housing in their local communities. Many of those proposals are already being implemented in other rural communities, notably the Lake District. Are those people, who criticise this report and Plaid Cymru, also criticising areas like the Lake District? Perhaps Peter Black and his Liberal Democrat colleagues should talk to their colleagues in Windermere, in the heart of the Lake District, to find out if the policies used there simply pander to nationalism, as he puts it. If not, if they are used to preserve communities, why does he criticise the use of the same policies for the same purpose here?
Yr hyn sydd yn bwysig yw cydnabod y broblem. Mae dwy broblem wahanol, sef darparu tai i ddiwallu anghenion lleol a diogelu cymunedau. Tra bod y pleidiau eraill yn anobeithio, mae Plaid Cymru yn mynd i’r afael â’r broblem. Gwna’r adroddiad hwn gyfres o gynigion synhwyrol a chyfreithlon gyda’r nod o alluogi pobl, beth bynnag fo’u hiaith, i brynu neu rentu tai fforddiadwy yn eu cymunedau lleol. Eisoes gweithredir llawer o’r cynigion hyn mewn cymunedau gwledig eraill, yn Ardal y Llynnoedd yn arbennig. A yw’r bobl hynny sydd yn beirniadu’r adroddiad hwn a Phlaid Cymru, hefyd yn beirniadu ardaloedd fel Ardal y Llynnoedd? Efallai y dylai Peter Black a’i gyd-Aelodau Democrataidd Rhyddfrydol siarad â’u cyd-Aelodau yn Windermere, yng nghanol Ardal y Llynnoedd, i ganfod a yw’r polisïau a ddefnyddir yno yn gweithredu er mwyn boddio cenedlaetholdeb yn unig, fel y dywed ef. Os nad ydynt, os cânt eu defnyddio i ddiogelu cymunedau, pam ei fod yn beirniadu’r un defnydd o’r polisïau at yr un diben yma?
Peter Black a gododd—
Peter Black rose—
You will have an opportunity to speak later, Peter.
Cewch gyfle i siarad yn ddiweddarach, Peter.
One must question his motives. Is it not him who engenders an atmosphere of hostility between the Welsh and English with his reckless comments? These communities in the north-west are among the remaining few where Welsh is still the community language. Introducing measures to ensure the survival of the language is hardly a hanging offence. The language is part of the rich cultural diversity of Wales, and it deserves respect. It belongs equally to all the people of Wales, whether they speak Welsh or not. It should not be used as a weapon to whip up fear and division.
Mae’n rhaid i rywun amau ei gymhellion dros ddweud hyn. Onid ef sydd yn creu awyrgylch gelyniaethus rhwng y Cymry a’r Saeson gyda’i sylwadau diofal? Mae’r cymunedau yn y gogledd-orllewin ymysg yr ychydig sydd yn weddill lle y defnyddir y Gymraeg fel yr iaith gymunedol. Nid yw cyflwyno mesurau i sicrhau goroesiad yr iaith yn achos crogi. Mae’r iaith yn rhan o amrywiaeth diwylliannol cyfoethog Cymru, ac mae’n haeddu cael ei pharchu. Mae’n perthyn i holl bobl Cymru fel ei gilydd, pa un ai a siaradant Gymraeg ai peidio. Ni ddylid ei defnyddio fel arf i greu ofn a rhaniadau.
Likewise, the proposal to increase council tax for second homeowners has consistently been portrayed as a measure to keep people out. It is nothing of the kind. It is an acknowledgement that many second homes are empty for part of the year. That puts a great deal of pressure on local services, which require a critical mass of year-round residents to be sustainable. Additional council tax could contribute to the maintenance of services equally important to the owners of second homes and to year-round residents. Underlying all this is the need for good employment opportunities and strong rural economies; issues to keep people there. Plaid Cymru will tackle these issues, but it will inevitably take a little longer.
Yn yr un modd, portreadwyd y cynnig i godi’r dreth gyngor i berchnogion ail gartrefi fel ffordd o gadw pobl allan. Nid dyna ydyw o gwbl. Mae’n gydnabyddiaeth bod llawer o ail gartrefi yn wag am ran o’r flwyddyn. Rhydd hynny lawer o bwysau ar wasanaethau lleol, sydd yn galw am fàs critigol o drigolion ar hyd y flwyddyn i fod yn gynaliadwy. Gallai treth gyngor ychwanegol gyfrannu at gynnal a chadw gwasanaethau sydd yr un mor bwysig i berchnogion ail gartrefi ag y maent i drigolion sydd yn byw yno drwy’r flwyddyn. Yn sail i hyn, mae’r angen am gyfleoedd gwaith da ac economïau gwledig cryf; materion i gadw pobl yno. Bydd Plaid Cymru yn mynd i’r afael â’r materion hyn, ond yn anochel bydd yn cymryd ychydig yn fwy o amser.
The crisis in housing is far too important and urgent to delay. The details in the report can, and should, be implemented now, within the next 12 months. Plaid Cymru—The Party of Wales, has recognised the problems in our rural communities and has sought to address them. What are the other parties going to do about them? That is the challenge.
Ni ellir oedi, gan fod yr argyfwng o ran tai yn llawer rhy bwysig ac mae arno angen sylw brys. Gall y manylion yn yr adroddiad, ac fe ddylent, gael eu gweithredu yn awr, o fewn y 12 mis nesaf. Mae Plaid Cymru—The Party of Wales, wedi cydnabod y problemau yn ein cymunedau gwledig, ac wedi ceisio ymdrin â hwy. Beth mae’r pleidiau eraill yn mynd i’w wneud yn eu cylch? Dyna’r her.
I have no doubt that the access of young people to homes in their areas is an important issue. Combined with low-paid jobs, the problem undoubtedly forces young people to leave their areas. It affects all parts of Wales, as William Graham pointed out. There is no better example than Cardiff Bay. I live in a development called Adventurers’ Quay. It is effectively a second home related to my work. The people who lived in that area before have no hope of buying properties there now. The issue is not a new one. I first confronted it in 1980 when I was elected chairman of a local planning authority in a rural area, a position I held for six years. My contribution to this debate is based on my approach to what I believed to be the most serious problem we faced at that time. The overall strategy was to look for measures that achieved a broad agreement without antagonising those who were not affected by them. I still believe that that is the right principle. That is why I am angry about the comments I have seen attributed to Simon Glyn of Plaid Cymru. He is wrong because he has polarised opinion. It is a serious issue, but he has made it difficult for us to make progress in dealing with it.
Nid oes amheuaeth gennyf fod sicrhau cartrefi i bobl ifanc yn eu hardaloedd yn fater pwysig. Ynghyd â swyddi â chyflog isel, mae’r broblem yn ddiau yn gorfodi pobl ifanc i adael eu hardaloedd. Mae’n effeithio ar bob rhan o Gymru, fel y dywedodd William Graham. Nid oes gwell enghraifft na Bae Caerdydd. Yr wyf yn byw mewn datblygiad o’r enw Adventurers’ Quay. Mewn gwirionedd, ail gartref ydyw sydd yn gysylltiedig â’m gwaith. Nid oes gan y bobl a oedd yn byw yn yr ardal honno cyn hynny unrhyw obaith o brynu eiddo yno yn awr. Nid yw hyn yn broblem newydd. Deuthum ar ei thraws gyntaf yn 1980 pan oeddwn yn gadeirydd etholedig awdurdod cynllunio lleol mewn ardal wledig, swydd a ddaliais am chwe blynedd. Seilir fy nghyfraniad i’r ddadl hon ar fy ymagwedd tuag at y broblem fwyaf difrifol yr oeddem yn ei hwynebu ar y pryd yn fy marn i. Y strategaeth gyffredinol oedd edrych am fesurau a gyrhaeddai gytundeb cyffredinol heb gythruddo’r rheini nad oeddent yn effeithio arnynt. Yr wyf yn dal i gredu mai dyna’r egwyddor gywir. Dyna pam fy mod yn ddig ynglŷn â’r sylwadau a briodolwyd i Simon Glyn o Blaid Cymru. Mae ar fai am ei fod wedi hollti barn. Mae’n fater difrifol, ond fe’i gwnaeth yn anodd inni gymryd camau i ddelio ag ef.
I gave a similar response to Owen John Thomas following his contribution this morning. The issue of the Welsh language is highly relevant. I have no doubt that its future depends absolutely on the positive attitude towards it of those who are not able to speak Welsh.
Rhoddais ateb tebyg i Owen John Thomas yn dilyn ei gyfraniad ef y bore yma. Mae’r iaith Gymraeg yn fater perthnasol iawn. Yn ddiau, mae ei dyfodol yn dibynnu’n llwyr ar ymagwedd gadarnhaol y rheini na all siarad Cymraeg tuag ati.
In 1990, I believed that the way forward in rural Montgomeryshire was to identify land on which only local people were able to secure planning permission. Crucially, we did not put conditions on land that was zoned for development. That would have produced resentment. Other land had to be identified which would not normally be zoned for development, which would be made available for local young people at a much lower price. That is where the concept of minor settlements came from, which has been part of the planning policy in Montgomeryshire since that time. The policy was designed for local people. It concerns me greatly that even within that council there has been a tendency to put conditions on land zoned for development. That policy produces the resentment that prevents the problem being dealt with.
Yn 1990, credais mai’r ffordd ymlaen yn Sir Drefaldwyn wledig oedd nodi tir lle y gallai pobl leol yn unig gael caniatâd cynllunio. Yn hanfodol, ni phennwyd amodau ar dir a oedd wedi ei rannu yn ardaloedd i’w datblygu. Byddai hynny wedi creu drwgdeimlad. Yr oedd yn rhaid nodi tir arall na fyddai fel arfer yn cael ei rhannu yn ardaloedd i’w datblygu, a fyddai ar gael i bobl ifanc leol am bris llai o lawer. Dyna lle y dechreuodd y cysyniad o anheddau bach, a fu’n rhan o bolisi cynllunio Sir Drefaldwyn ers yr adeg honno. Lluniwyd y polisi ar gyfer pobl leol. Mae’n peri pryder imi y bu tueddiad, hyd yn oed o fewn y cyngor hwnnw, i bennu amodau ar dir a oedd wedi ei rannu yn ardaloedd i’w datblygu. Mae’r polisi hwnnw yn creu drwgdeimlad sydd yn atal y broblem rhag cael ei datrys.
The debate about the relationship between this issue and the Welsh language is much more difficult and controversial. I accept that there is some connection. In a Welsh-speaking community, if young people find it difficult to find homes and have to move out, the community is weakened; that is self-evident. Reference to the language is therefore entirely reasonable. I welcomed that idea when it became part of planning policy, around 10 years ago. This is a serious issue, and I disapprove of extreme comments made by members of any party, including my own. Individuals may make comments that I think are outrageous. Anyone who polarises this debate or makes comments that are obviously improper must be condemned. I say to Plaid Cymru, which presented this debate today—most of which was presented reasonably, and I have no problem with it—that it has a problem dealing with the wilder wing of its party, what you might call the Simon Glyn wing. For example, Plaid Cymru’s proposal to introduce double council tax is—
Mae’r ddadl ynglŷn â’r berthynas rhwng y mater hwn a’r iaith Gymraeg yn llawer mwy anodd a dadleuol. Derbyniaf fod rhywfaint o gyswllt. Mewn cymuned Gymraeg ei hiaith, os caiff pobl ifanc anhawster i gael cartrefi a’u bod yn gorfod symud i ffwrdd, mae’r gymuned yn gwanhau; mae hynny’n amlwg ohono’i hun. Felly, mae cyfeirio at yr iaith yn hollol resymol. Croesewais y syniad hwnnw pan ddaeth yn rhan o bolisi cynllunio, tua 10 mlynedd yn ôl. Mae hwn yn fater difrifol, ac ni chymeradwyaf sylwadau eithafol a wneir gan aelodau o unrhyw blaid, gan gynnwys fy mhlaid i fy hun. Mae unigolion yn gwneud sylwadau sydd yn warthus yn fy marn i. Rhaid condemnio unrhyw un sydd yn hollti’r ddadl hon neu’n gwneud sylwadau sydd yn amlwg yn amhriodol. Dywedaf wrth Blaid Cymru, a gyflwynodd y ddadl hon heddiw—y cyflwynwyd y rhan fwyaf ohoni yn rhesymol, ac nid yw’n achosi problem imi—fod ganddi broblem wrth ddelio ag aden fwy gwyllt ei phlaid, yr hyn y byddech yn ei galw efallai yn aden Simon Glyn. Er enghraifft, mae cynnig Plaid Cymru i gyflwyno treth gyngor ddwbl yn—
Dafydd Wigley a gododd—
Dafydd Wigley rose—
I will not allow you to interrupt my key point.
Ni chaniataf ichi dorri ar draws fy mhwynt allweddol.
Plaid Cymru’s proposal to introduce double council tax is very much a part of its attempt to maintain its traditional support in Welsh-speaking areas, which is threatened by its ambitions to expand into other parts of Wales.
Mae cynnig Plaid Cymru i gyflwyno treth gyngor ddwbl yn rhan fawr iawn o’i hymdrech i gynnal ei chefnogaeth draddodiadol mewn ardaloedd Cymraeg eu hiaith, a gaiff ei bygwth gan ei dyheadau i ymestyn i rannau eraill o Gymru.
I will not take an intervention now because I have finished.
Ni chymeraf ymyriad yn awr gan fy mod wedi gorffen.
I welcome the fact that we are debating housing issues once more, a subject that had an exceedingly low profile before the Assembly’s establishment. I also welcome the report published by Plaid Cymru, if only because it has pulled together many of the policies already pursued by the Liberal Democrat/Labour administration and has re-published them. The fact that the report seeks to claim ownership of many of those policies makes it a cuckoo in the nest—
Croesawaf y ffaith ein bod yn dadlau materion tai unwaith eto, pwnc a gafodd broffil eithriadol o isel cyn sefydlu’r Cynulliad. Croesawaf hefyd yr adroddiad a gyhoeddwyd gan Blaid Cymru, pe bai ond am y rheswm syml ei fod wedi crynhoi llawer o’r polisïau a ddilynir eisoes gan weinyddiaeth y Democratiaid Rhyddfrydol/Llafur ac wedi eu hailgyhoeddi. Mae’r ffaith bod yr adroddiad yn ceisio hawlio perchnogaeth o lawer o’r polisïau hynny yn ei gwneud yn gyw cog yn y nyth—
Janet Ryder a gododd—
Janet Ryder rose—
You did not give way to me, Janet, so you can just sit down.
Ni wnaethoch ildio imi, Janet, felly gallwch eistedd.
It is not a very devolution-literate cuckoo either, as it claims powers for the Assembly that it does not have, including the ability to introduce 200 per cent council tax on second homes. The power to define and implement such a policy would only be available through primary legislation. I would like the Assembly to have the powers to exercise that discretion, but that is an issue for the future.
Nid yw’n gog ddatganoledig-lythrennog iawn ychwaith, gan ei bod yn hawlio pwerau i’r Cynulliad nad yw’n meddu arnynt, gan gynnwys y gallu i gyflwyno treth gyngor 200 y cant ar ail gartrefi. Byddai’r pŵer i ddiffinio a gweithredu polisi o’r fath ond ar gael drwy ddeddfwriaeth sylfaenol. Hoffwn i’r Cynulliad gael y pwerau i weithredu’r disgresiwn hwnnw, ond mae hynny’n fater i’r dyfodol.
Tackling the many problems facing rural areas, including poor and unaffordable housing, calls for an integrated approach. Poor housing impacts on health, educational attainments and many other issues. Similarly, improving transport links and increasing economic prosperity can lead to investment in rural communities and the ability of local people to better afford to stay in their communities if they so wish.
Mae mynd i’r afael â llawer o’r problemau sydd yn wynebu ardaloedd gwledig, gan gynnwys tai gwael a thai na ellir eu fforddio, yn galw am ymagwedd integredig. Mae tai gwael yn effeithio ar iechyd, cyraeddiadau addysgol a llawer o faterion eraill. Yn yr un modd, gall gwella cysylltiadau trafnidiaeth a chynyddu ffyniant economaidd arwain at fuddsoddi mewn cymunedau gwledig a galluogi pobl leol i fod mewn gwell sefyllfa i allu fforddio aros yn eu cymunedau os dymunant.
This is not just about housing; it is an integral part of the regeneration of rural areas. That needs to be recognised. It is true that several rural areas, especially those near the coast, are suffering due to the impact of second-home buyers. In some cases, that can threaten a community’s viability. However, its impact should not be overestimated. Nor should we forget that it can be a double-edged sword. The report’s suggestion of designating land in some communities for the development of new second homes is interesting and worth exploring.
Nid ymwneud â thai yn unig y mae hyn; mae’n rhan annatod o adfywio ardaloedd gwledig. Mae angen cydnabod hynny. Mae’n wir bod sawl ardal wledig, yn enwedig y rheini ger yr arfordir, yn dioddef oherwydd effaith prynu ail gartrefi. Mewn rhai achosion, gall hynny fygwth ymarferoldeb cymuned. Fodd bynnag, ni ddylid gor-bwysleisio ei effaith. Ac ni ddylwn ychwaith anghofio y gall fod yn gleddyf daufiniog. Mae awgrym yr adroddiad i ddynodi tir mewn rhai cymunedau er mwyn datblygu ail gartrefi newydd yn ddiddorol ac yn werth ei ymchwilio.
Second-home owners can bring money into a community by employing local labour and using local services. For that reason, the approach that is already being taken by the administration, of researching the distribution and land use implications of second homes in rural areas before drawing over-hasty conclusions, is the right one. I do not support the proposals to impose 200 per cent council tax on second-home owners. Such punitive measures send the wrong message to those wishing to holiday in Wales. It would distort the local housing market and prove an ineffective disincentive. I would prefer a more positive approach to the problem where, instead of penalising people, we seek to target those who need local housing and give them the means to acquire it. That is why the remodelled homebuy scheme is important, as is our consultation on relaxing regulations and improving subsidy levels to encourage housing associations to convert existing rural properties into homes for local people. Those policies have been initiated by this administration.
Gall perchnogion ail gartrefi ddod ag arian i mewn i gymuned drwy gyflogi llafur lleol a defnyddio gwasanaethau lleol. Am y rheswm hwnnw, yr ymagwedd a gymerwyd eisoes gan y weinyddiaeth, o ymchwilio i’r modd y dosberthir ail gartrefi mewn ardaloedd gwledig a’u goblygiadau o ran defnydd tir, cyn dod i gasgliadau brysiog, yw’r un gywir. Ni chefnogaf y cynigion i godi treth gyngor 200 y cant ar berchnogion ail gartrefi. Mae mesurau cosbol o’r fath yn cyfleu’r neges anghywir i’r rheini sydd yn dymuno dod i Gymru ar wyliau. Byddai’n camliwio’r farchnad dai leol a byddai’n wrthanogaeth aneffeithiol. Byddai’n well gennyf weld ymagwedd fwy cadarnhaol tuag at y broblem lle y byddem yn ceisio targedu’r rheini sydd angen tai lleol ac yn rhoi’r modd iddynt eu prynu, yn lle cosbi pobl. Dyna pam bod y cynllun prynu cartref a ail-luniwyd yn bwysig, fel y mae ein hymgynghoriad ar lacio rheoliadau a gwella lefelau cymhorthdal i annog cymdeithasau tai i droi adeiladau gwledig presennol yn gartrefi i bobl leol. Dechreuwyd gweithredu’r polisïau hynny gan y weinyddiaeth hon.
The success of the homebuy scheme depends on local councils some of which, including Gwynedd, have not yet grasped the opportunity that it offers. Councils need to understand the housing market in their areas, assess needs and use social housing grants accordingly. We have made an extra £1.5 million available this year, which, when matched by social housing grants, should ensure the purchase of 150 such homes this year. Current indications point to 140 homebuy homes being bought in Wales this year. Hopefully that will improve and increase in time.
Mae llwyddiant y cynllun prynu cartref yn dibynnu ar gynghorau lleol ac nid yw rhai ohonynt, gan gynnwys Gwynedd, wedi manteisio eto ar y cyfle y mae’n ei gynnig. Mae angen i’r cynghorau ddeall y farchnad dai yn eu hardaloedd, asesu’r anghenion a defnyddio grantiau tai cymdeithasol yn unol â hynny. Sicrhawyd gennym bod £1.5 miliwn ychwanegol ar gael eleni a ddylai olygu, pan gaiff ei gyfateb â grantiau tai cymdeithasol, y caiff 150 o gartrefi o’r fath eu prynu eleni. Mae’r dangosyddion cyfredol yn nodi bod 140 o dai yn y cynllun prynu cartref wedi eu prynu yng Nghymru eleni. Gobeithio y bydd hynny’n gwella ac yn cynyddu gydag amser.
The fact that Plaid Cymru has called for £10 million to be made available for the scheme, seems to indicate that it does not understand its economics. That figure seems to have been plucked from the air and suffers from the usual flaw of most of Plaid Cymru’s proposals in not saying from where the money will come. It also fails to acknowledge that resources are available in the social housing grant to fund an expansion of the proposal—
Mae’r ffaith bod Plaid Cymru wedi gofyn am £10 miliwn i fod ar gael ar gyfer y cynllun, yn awgrymu nad yw’n deall ei heconomeg. Ymddengys bod y ffigur hwnnw wedi ei dynnu o’r awyr ac mae’n dioddef o’r diffyg arferol a geir yn y rhan fwyaf o gynigion Plaid Cymru sef nad yw’n dweud o ble y daw’r arian. Mae hefyd yn methu â chydnabod bod adnoddau ar gael yn y grant tai cymdeithasol i ariannu’r gwaith o ymestyn y cynnig—
There is an underspend.
Mae tanwariant.
If you can show an underspend in the housing budget, you are welcome to try. Resources are available in the social housing grant for this scheme and it is simply a matter of local authorities assessing need, and using and directing the social housing grant to ensure that these homes are bought.
Os gallwch ddangos tanwariant yn y gyllideb tai, mae croeso ichi roi cynnig ar hynny. Mae adnoddau ar gael yn y grant tai cymdeithasol ar gyfer y cynllun hwn a’r cyfan y mae’n ei olygu yw bod awdurdodau lleol yn asesu’r angen, ac yn defnyddio a chyfeirio’r grant tai cymdeithasol er mwyn sicrhau y prynir y cartrefi hyn.
Any response to the Plaid Cymru document would be incomplete without a reference to its roots. This is a document forged out of the crisis caused by councillors Simon Glyn and Brittain, which revealed a substantial anti-English faction within Plaid Cymru. I want to see measures to promote the Welsh language—
Byddai unrhyw ymateb i ddogfen Plaid Cymru yn anghyflawn heb gyfeiriad at ei gwreiddiau. Mae hon yn ddogfen a luniwyd o’r argyfwng a achoswyd gan y cynghorwyr Simon Glyn a Brittain, a ddatgelodd garfan wrth-Seisnig sylweddol o fewn Plaid Cymru. Yr wyf am weld mesurau i hyrwyddo’r iaith Gymraeg—
Janet Ryder a gododd—
Janet Ryder rose—
I will not give way to Janet. [Interruption.]
Nid wyf am ildio i Janet. [Torri ar draws.]
John Marek The Deputy Presiding Officer spoken in English p. 102
John Marek Y Dirprwy Lywydd siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 102
Order. You have had over five minutes, Peter.
Trefn. Yr ydych wedi cael mwy na phum munud, Peter.
A minute of that time was taken up by Plaid Cymru jeering at me. I will finish my point, if I may. I want to see measures to promote the Welsh language in positive and meaningful ways. I do not support measures that send the message that non-Welsh speakers or non-Welsh persons are not welcome in particular communities. That is the politics of exclusion.
Treuliodd Plaid Cymru funud o’r amser hwnnw yn fy ngwawdio. Gorffennaf fy mhwynt, os caf. Yr wyf am weld mesurau i hyrwyddo’r iaith Gymraeg mewn ffyrdd cadarnhaol ac ystyrlon. Nid wyf am gefnogi mesurau sydd yn cyfleu’r neges nad oes croeso i siaradwyr di-Gymraeg neu bersonau di-Gymraeg mewn rhai cymunedau. Gwleidyddiaeth allgáu yw hynny.
As has been said, we already have planning advice that recognises that the Welsh language can, like other social issues, be a material consideration in the planning system. Local councils can take the Welsh language into account when preparing unitary development plans, but they should not seek to introduce any element of discrimination between individuals on the basis of their linguistic ability.
Fel y dywedwyd, mae gennym gyngor cynllunio eisoes sydd yn cydnabod y gall yr iaith Gymraeg, fel materion cymdeithasol eraill, fod yn ystyriaeth berthnasol yn y system gynllunio. Gall cynghorau lleol ystyried yr iaith Gymraeg wrth baratoi cynlluniau datblygu unedol, ond ni ddylent geisio cyflwyno unrhyw elfen o wahaniaethu rhwng unigolion ar sail eu gallu ieithyddol.
John Marek The Deputy Presiding Officer spoken in English p. 103
John Marek Y Dirprwy Lywydd siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 103
Order. You must finish now.
Trefn. Rhaid ichi orffen yn awr.
I am just concluding.
Yr wyf ar fin gorffen.
John Marek The Deputy Presiding Officer spoken in English p. 103
John Marek Y Dirprwy Lywydd siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 103
You have one more sentence.
Cewch un frawddeg arall.
That is the right way forward. The policies promoted by the Liberal Democrat/Labour administration will help people to stay and own homes in their own communities. This motion—
Dyna’r ffordd gywir ymlaen. Bydd y polisïau a hyrwyddwyd gan weinyddiaeth y Democratiaid Rhyddfrydol/ Llafur yn helpu pobl i aros yn eu cartrefi a bod yn berchen tai yn eu cymunedau eu hunain. Mae’r cynnig hwn—
John Marek The Deputy Presiding Officer spoken in English p. 103
John Marek Y Dirprwy Lywydd siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 103
Order. I am afraid that you have had your sentence. I have five speakers remaining and all but one of them have asked to intervene during this debate. I want to allow everyone an opportunity to speak, so if you are all in agreement, we will strictly limit further speeches to three minutes.
Trefn. Mae’n ddrwg gennyf ond cawsoch eich brawddeg. Mae gennyf bum siaradwr yn weddill ac mae pob un ohonynt namyn un wedi gofyn am ymyrryd yn ystod y ddadl hon. Yr wyf am roi’r cyfle i bawb siarad, felly os yw pawb yn cytuno, cyfyngwn yr areithiau dilynol i dair munud yr un.
I am grateful for the opportunity to speak and I will seek to stick to three minutes. I, too, recognise the problem posed by this motion, and I agree with Glyn Davies’s and William Graham’s comments. This is a real problem. People like Simon Glyn have heightened the emotion surrounding this issue and are placing Plaid Cymru in a difficult situation.
Yr wyf yn ddiolchgar am y cyfle i siarad a cheisiaf gadw at dair munud. Yr wyf innau, hefyd, yn cydnabod y broblem sydd yn codi yn sgîl y cynnig hwn, a chytunaf â sylwadau Glyn Davies a William Graham. Mae hon yn broblem wirioneddol. Mae pobl fel Simon Glyn wedi dwysáu’r emosiwn sydd yn gysylltiedig â’r mater hwn ac yn rhoi Plaid Cymru mewn sefyllfa anodd.
I will discuss the risks of introducing legislation to manipulate the situation, albeit that that may be suggested with the best of intentions.
Trafodaf y risgiau o gyflwyno deddfwriaeth i lywio’r sefyllfa, er yr awgrymir hynny efallai gyda’r bwriadau gorau.
On the proposal to double council tax for second homes, Glyn Davies has already referred to Assembly Members who have second homes here in Cardiff. Janet Ryder said that second homes are left unoccupied for large periods of time because they are holiday homes. However, we should not forget that many people have second homes out of the need to work outside their home area. We may want to keep such people in the communities in rural Wales, because they may be earning high salaries in London or in south-east Wales and returning to spend their earnings in rural Welsh communities at the weekend.
O ran y cynnig i ddyblu’r dreth gyngor ar gyfer ail gartrefi, cyfeiriodd Glyn Davies eisoes at Aelodau’r Cynulliad sydd ag ail gartrefi yma yng Nghaerdydd. Dywedodd Janet Ryder fod ail gartrefi yn wag am gyfnodau hir o amser am eu bod yn gartrefi gwyliau. Fodd bynnag, ni ddylem anghofio fod gan lawer o bobl ail gartrefi gan fod angen iddynt weithio y tu allan i ardal eu cartref. Efallai y byddwn am gadw pobl o’r fath yn y cymunedau yng Nghymru wledig, oherwydd efallai eu bod yn ennill cyflogau uchel yn Llundain neu yn ne-ddwyrain Cymru ac yn dychwelyd i wario eu henillion mewn cymunedau Cymreig gwledig dros y penwythnos.
There are other risks to legislating in this way. This problem is not unique to Wales. The Lake District has been mentioned, but there are similar difficulties in the Channel Islands, where the influx of people to those communities is creating unique difficulties. The Channel Islands’ answer was to legislate, some 80 years ago, I believe, to differentiate between a local and an open market. Although that might have worked for a short period of time, people moving into the area had to buy properties on the open market. Naturally, there would be differentiation in the local and the open market prices. By now, the open market prices are nearly three times more than the local market prices. In recent years, people from, for example, the south-east of England have moved to Guernsey or other Channel Islands and have bought property at the open market prices. They have then raised a family who have been born and brought up on the Channel Islands and are naturally from a more affluent background. That has consequently increased the prices in the local market. Therefore, the truly indigenous people of Guernsey find themselves in exactly the same situation that they were in some 30 years previously. Therefore, legislating in this way—no matter how well intentioned it may be—is not perfect and it will create problems. Contributions like some of those that we have heard from Plaid Cymru which have talked of racism, and some of the comments made by councillor Simon Glyn, are not helpful. This problem needs addressing in a sensitive way whereby we can all contribute positively to the debate.
Mae risgiau eraill o ganlyniad i ddeddfu fel hyn. Nid yw’r broblem hon yn unigryw i Gymru. Soniwyd am Ardal y Llynnoedd, ond mae anawsterau tebyg yn Ynysoedd y Sianel, lle mae mewnlifiad y bobl i’r cymunedau hynny yn creu anawsterau unigryw. Ateb Ynysoedd y Sianel oedd deddfu, tua 80 mlynedd yn ôl, fe gredaf, er mwyn gwahaniaethu rhwng marchnad leol a marchnad agored. Er y gallai hynny fod wedi gweithio am gyfnod byr o amser, bu’n rhaid i bobl a oedd yn symud i mewn i’r ardal brynu cartrefi ar y farchnad agored. Yn naturiol, byddai gwahaniaeth ym mhrisiau’r farchnad leol a’r farchnad agored. Erbyn hyn, mae prisiau’r farchnad agored bron dair gwaith yn fwy na phrisiau’r farchnad leol. Dros y blynyddoedd diwethaf, mae pobl, o dde-ddwyrain Lloegr, er enghraifft, wedi symud i Guernsey neu Ynysoedd eraill y Sianel ac wedi prynu eiddo ar brisiau’r farchnad agored. Yna maent wedi magu teulu a gafodd eu geni a’u magu ar Ynysoedd y Sianel ac yn naturiol sydd yn dod o gefndir mwy cyfoethog. O ganlyniad mae hynny wedi cynyddu’r prisiau yn y farchnad leol. Felly, mae pobl wirioneddol frodorol Guernsey yn cael eu hunain yn yr un sefyllfa’n union ag yr oeddent tua 30 mlynedd ynghynt. Felly nid yw deddfu fel hyn—waeth pa mor dda yw’r bwriadau—yn berffaith a bydd yn creu problemau. Nid yw cyfraniadau fel y rhai a glywsom gan Blaid Cymru a soniodd am hiliaeth, a rhai o’r sylwadau a wnaethpwyd gan y cynghorydd Simon Glyn yn fuddiol. Mae angen mynd i’r afael â’r broblem hon mewn ffordd sensitif lle y gall pob un ohonom gyfrannu’n gadarnhaol i’r ddadl.
No-one would dispute that there are significant housing problems in rural Wales. In some English and Welsh-speaking communities, house prices are cheap by any standards. However, in our more picturesque areas the availability and cost of a home for a first-time buyer is a real issue. Despite Labour delivering the lowest mortgage interest rates for a generation and high levels of employment, many young people still find it difficult to get on the first rung of the property ladder. The solution must be in developing the right economic conditions. Objective 1 is delivering hundreds of millions of pounds of capital investment into the rural economy. Most of the areas where housing is a real issue are in the Objective 1 area.
Ni fyddai neb yn gwadu bod problemau tai sylweddol yng Nghymru wledig. Mewn rhai cymunedau Saesneg a Chymraeg eu hiaith, mae prisiau tai yn rhad yn ôl unrhyw safonau. Fodd bynnag, yn ein hardaloedd mwy prydferth mae argaeledd a chost cartrefi i rywun sydd yn prynu am y tro cyntaf yn broblem wirioneddol. Er i Lafur gyflwyno’r cyfraddau llog morgais isaf ers cenhedlaeth ac er gwaethaf lefelau uchel o gyflogaeth, caiff llawer o bobl ifanc anhawster o hyd i ddringo gris cyntaf yr ysgol eiddo. Yr ateb yn ddiau yw datblygu’r amodau economaidd cywir. Mae Amcan 1 yn buddsoddi cannoedd o filiynau o bunnoedd yn yr economi wledig. Mae’r rhan fwyaf o’r ardaloedd lle mae tai yn broblem wirioneddol o fewn ardal Amcan 1.
I do not want to tar all members of Plaid Cymru with the same brush. Many Plaid Cymru members have excellent and exemplary records on equal opportunities, and some of them have good left-wing credentials. However, you cannot deny that there is a faction within Plaid Cymru, including people who hold office, who are, frankly, anti-English. My most important annual civic duty is taking part in Remembrance Sunday.
Nid dweud yr ydwyf bod yr un beiau gan bob aelod o Blaid Cymru. Mae gan lawer o aelodau Plaid Cymru hanes rhagorol a chanmoladwy o ran cyfleoedd cyfartal, ac mae gan rai ohonynt gymwysterau adain-chwith da. Fodd bynnag, ni allwch wadu bod carfan o fewn Plaid Cymru, gan gynnwys pobl sydd yn dal swyddi, sydd, a bod yn onest, yn wrth-Seisnig. Fy nyletswydd ddinesig flynyddol bwysicaf oll yw cymryd rhan yn Sul y Cofio.
Gareth Jones a gododd—
Gareth Jones rose—
Sorry, I only have three minutes. Remembrance Sunday is my opportunity to say ‘thank you’ to those who made sacrifices in defending liberty. Some of those people are Welsh and many are English. However, those pensioners are all British, exercising their democratic right to live out their final years in one of the most beautiful parts of the United Kingdom—the north Wales coast. I find it offensive that some members of the Party of Wales call my constituents a burden on Welsh society. How is tourism and inward investment helped by its anti-English rhetoric?
Mae’n ddrwg gennyf, dim ond tair munud sydd gennyf. Sul y Cofio yw fy nghyfle i ddweud ‘diolch yn fawr’ i bawb a aberthodd wrth amddiffyn rhyddid. Mae rhai o’r bobl hynny yn Gymry a llawer yn Saeson. Fodd bynnag, Prydeinwyr yw’r pensiynwyr i gyd, sydd yn ymarfer eu hawl ddemocrataidd i fyw eu blynyddoedd olaf yn un o ardaloedd harddaf y Deyrnas Unedig—arfordir gogledd Cymru. Mae’n dramgwyddus yn fy marn i fod rhai aelodau o Blaid Cymru yn galw fy etholwyr yn faich ar y gymdeithas Gymreig. Sut y caiff twristiaeth a mewnfuddsoddiad ei helpu gan ei rhethreg wrth-Seisnig?
Of course, the Welsh language is potentially under threat. Any language spoken by a small number of people, anywhere in the world, is potentially at risk from global languages such as Spanish and English. However, the way to protect the Welsh language is by supporting institutions such as the Welsh Language Board, backing Welsh-medium education, making Welsh compulsory in our national curriculum and, crucially, through economic development, not by hauling up the drawbridge, trying to rig the housing market or retreating behind anti-English slogans.
Wrth gwrs, mae’r iaith Gymraeg o dan fygythiad. Mae’n bosibl i ieithoedd byd-eang fel Sbaeneg a Saesneg fygwth unrhyw iaith a siaredir gan nifer fach o bobl, unrhyw le yn y byd. Fodd bynnag, y ffordd o ddiogelu’r iaith Gymraeg yw drwy gefnogi sefydliadau fel Bwrdd yr Iaith Gymraeg, cefnogi addysg drwy gyfrwng y Gymraeg, gwneud y Gymraeg yn orfodol yn ein cwricwlwm cenedlaethol ac, yn holl bwysig, drwy ddatblygiad economaidd, nid drwy godi’r bont godi, drwy geisio rigio’r farchnad dai nac encilio y tu ôl i sloganau gwrth-Seisnig.
John Marek The Deputy Presiding Officer spoken in English p. 106
John Marek Y Dirprwy Lywydd siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 106
This is an important debate and, while many speakers want to participate, I can only allow one speaker before we come to the Minister for Finance, Local Government and Communities and the closing speeches. My apologies to those other Members who wish to speak but I cannot permit them to do so.
Mae hon yn ddadl bwysig ac er bod llawer o siaradwyr am gymryd rhan, gallaf ond caniatáu un siaradwr cyn y deuwn at y Gweinidog dros Gyllid, Llywodraeth Leol a Chymunedau a’r areithiau cloi. Ymddiheuriadau i’r Aelodau eraill hynny sydd yn dymuno siarad ond na allaf ganiatáu iddynt wneud hynny.
I am pleased to see this motion on the agenda today because it shows that Plaid Cymru—The Party of Wales is not yet fit for Government. The reason is that the longer it continues to be led by the nose by extremist factions that it feels it must placate—both just outside the party, in terms of groups such as the Independent Wales Party, and within it, in terms of people such as Simon Glyn—then it will never quite have made its mind up whether it is a pressure group for the Welsh language and certain types of communities in Wales, or whether it is a real political party seeking sensible solutions for all the people of Wales. I call on Plaid Cymru to join Labour. It seems as if Plaid Cymru—The Party of Wales, or the best party in the world ever volume 2 or whatever it calls itself—I have to use the full title now—has just woken up this morning and realised that capitalism is nasty and sometimes means that people cannot afford a decent home. Seen through the prism of its politics, it only matters that you are in that situation if you are a certain kind of person living in a certain kind of place. Join the Labour Party and care about all the people in that situation throughout Wales, in all kinds of communities and no matter what language they speak. This is an economic issue. The biggest determinant of whether you can afford a home where you want one is whether you have decent paid employment. The Labour Party is taking action on that and putting it right.
Yr wyf yn falch o weld y cynnig hwn ar yr agenda heddiw gan ei fod yn dangos nad yw Plaid Cymru—The Party of Wales yn gymwys i lywodraethu eto. Y rheswm yw po hwyaf y mae’n parhau i gael ei thywys gerfydd ei thrwyn gan garfanau eithafol fel ei bod yn teimlo bod yn rhaid iddi liniaru—ychydig y tu allan i’r blaid, o ran grwpiau fel Plaid Annibynnol Cymru, ac o’i mewn, o ran pobl fel Simon Glyn—yna ni fydd byth wedi penderfynu a yw’n garfan bwyso i’r iaith Gymraeg a mathau penodol o gymunedau yng Nghymru neu a yw’n blaid wleidyddol wirioneddol sydd yn ceisio dod o hyd i atebion synhwyrol i holl bobl Cymru. Galwaf ar Blaid Cymru i ymuno â Llafur. Hyd y gwelaf i mae Plaid Cymru—The Party of Wales, neu’r blaid orau yn y byd erioed cyfrol 2 neu beth bynnag y mae’n ei galw ei hun—rhaid imi ddefnyddio’r teitl llawn yn awr—newydd ddeffro y bore yma a sylweddoli bod cyfalafiaeth yn annymunol ac weithiau na all pobl fforddio cartref safonol. O’i weld drwy brism gwleidyddiaeth, mae ond yn bwysig eich bod yn y sefyllfa honno os ydych yn fath penodol o berson sydd yn byw mewn math penodol o le. Ymunwch â’r Blaid Lafur a gofidiwch am yr holl bobl yn y sefyllfa honno ledled Cymru, ymhob math o gymuned waeth beth fo’r iaith a siaradant. Mae hwn yn fater economaidd. Y penderfynydd pwysicaf wrth ystyried a allwch fforddio cartref lle y dymunwch fyw yw pa un a oes gennych gyflog gweddol ai peidio. Mae’r Blaid Lafur yn gweithredu ar hynny ac yn unioni’r sefyllfa.
I will give an example of two communities that prove that this motion is complete nonsense. These are two communities with great, proud traditions. Although they have a different history and approach in terms of the Welsh language, the language is in rude health in both communities. The first is Blaenau Ffestiniog, where my family originated. The second is Merthyr Tydfil, where my family ended up. Blaenau Ffestiniog has a great traditional hardcore Labour population. [Laughter.] Sorry, it is not Labour, although it used to be hardcore Labour and it will be again. It has a hardcore Welsh-speaking population that is in great health due to the vibrancy of the community, despite its economic problems. Housing in Blaenau Ffestiniog is dirt cheap. I would encourage Welsh speakers from all over Wales to move to Merthyr Tydfil if they want to be part of a vibrant, growing Welsh language community. The community has a history of welcoming people from all traditions. The Welsh language is growing and prospering in Merthyr. That is not because we built walls around it or built a ghetto for it. It is out of choice and because of policies that ensure that, wherever possible, people have access to decent homes. That is the way forward, not the exclusivity and the cultural ghettoising of the Welsh language that is proposed by Plaid Cymru.
Rhoddaf enghraifft o ddwy gymuned sydd yn profi fod y cynnig hwn yn hollol wirion. Dwy gymuned yw’r rhain â thraddodiadau mawr, balch. Er bod ganddynt hanes ac ymagwedd wahanol o ran yr iaith Gymraeg, mae’r iaith yn gadarn yn y ddwy gymuned. Y gymuned gyntaf yw Blaenau Ffestiniog, yr ardal y daeth fy nheulu ohoni. Yr ail yw Merthyr Tudful, sef yr ardal yr aeth fy nheulu iddi. Mae gan Flaenau Ffestiniog gnewyllyn caled traddodiadol mawr o gefnogwyr Lafur. [Chwerthin.] Mae’n ddrwg gennyf, nid Llafur, er yr arferai fod yn Llafur ac fe fydd unwaith eto. Mae ganddi gnewyllyn caled o Gymry Cymraeg sydd yn gadarn oherwydd bywiogrwydd y gymuned, er gwaethaf ei phroblemau economaidd. Mae tai ym Mlaenau Ffestiniog yn rhad iawn. Hoffwn annog siaradwyr Cymraeg ledled Cymru i symud i Ferthyr Tudful os ydynt am fod yn rhan o gymuned Gymraeg ei hiaith sydd yn fyw ac yn ffynnu. Mae gan y gymuned hanes o groesawu pobl o bob traddodiad. Mae’r iaith Gymraeg yn tyfu ac yn ffynnu ym Merthyr. Nid yw hyn am ein bod yn adeiladu muriau o’i hamgylch nac yn adeiladu geto ar ei chyfer. Mae hyn o ddewis ac oherwydd polisïau sydd yn sicrhau, lle bo’n bosibl, bod gan bobl fynediad i gartrefi safonol. Dyna’r ffordd ymlaen, nid mabwysiadu ymagwedd ddethol a diwylliannol gul ar gyfer yr iaith Gymraeg a gynigir gan Blaid Cymru.
Edwina Hart The Minister for Finance, Local Government and Communities spoken in English p. 107
Edwina Hart Y Gweinidog dros Gyllid, Llywodraeth Leol a Chymunedau siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 107
I recognise and regret the lack of affordable housing for local people in many rural communities in Wales. I also recognise and regret the lack of affordable housing for others, as Glyn Davies illustrated, in areas such as Cardiff, where there are also problems.
Yr wyf yn cydnabod ac yn gofidio bod prinder tai fforddiadwy i bobl leol mewn llawer o gymunedau gwledig yng Nghymru. Yr wyf yn cydnabod hefyd ac yn gofidio bod prinder tai fforddiadwy i eraill, fel y dangosodd Glyn Davies, mewn ardaloedd fel Caerdydd, lle mae problemau hefyd.
However, I ask the Assembly to reject the motion because of its demand for a further all-Wales review. We should recognise the many reviews and actions that have already been commissioned and conclude that a further all-Wales review would be regarded by people who need houses as a substitute for action.
Fodd bynnag, gofynnaf i’r Cynulliad wrthod y cynnig am ei fod yn galw am adolygiad pellach o Gymru gyfan. Dylem gydnabod fod llawer o adolygiadau wedi eu cynnal a chamau wedi eu comisiynu eisoes a dylem ddod i’r casgliad y byddai pobl sydd angen tai arnynt yn ystyried ein bod yn gwneud unrhyw beth yn hytrach na gweithredu.
I start my contribution to this debate with the proposition, which is essentially Marxist, that, where rural communities have housing problems, those problems are part and parcel of the problems of the local economy. It is possible to target problems relating to local housing or transport or health, but rural housing is part of a much wider economic problem. There needs to be a much stronger local economy, as speakers have noted during the debate.
Dechreuaf fy nghyfraniad i’r ddadl hon gyda’r cynnig, sydd yn y bôn yn un Marcsaidd, sef bod y problemau tai hynny sydd gan gymunedau gwledig yn rhan annatod o broblemau’r economi leol. Mae’n bosibl targedu’r problemau sydd yn ymwneud â thai lleol neu gludiant neu iechyd, ond mae tai gwledig yn rhan o broblem economaidd ehangach o lawer. Mae angen economi leol gryfach o lawer, fel y dywedodd y siaradwyr yn ystod y ddadl.
There are too many rural communities where there are not enough jobs or where the few available jobs do not offer sufficient pay to sustain family life. Young people in particular are forced to leave those communities in search of work. As a result, only older people remain and the lack of balance in the age structure results in another set of problems, as we are all aware.
Mae llawer gormod o gymunedau gwledig lle nad oes digon o swyddi neu lle nad yw’r ychydig swyddi sydd ar gael yn cynnig digon o gyflog i gadw teulu. Gorfodir pobl ifanc yn arbennig i adael y cymunedau hynny i chwilio am waith. O ganlyniad, dim ond pobl hŷn sydd ar ôl ac mae’r diffyg cydbwysedd o ran oedran yn arwain at gyfres arall o broblemau, fel y gŵyr pob un ohonom.
In many parts of Wales, lack of jobs and outward migration from rural communities is creating an oversupply of low-cost housing, which is degenerating rapidly through under-occupation. There are communities in Gwynedd, Ceredigion, Carmarthenshire and Neath Port Talbot where the current problem is not too little affordable housing but too little demand for existing housing.
Mewn sawl rhan o Gymru, mae prinder swyddi ac ymfudo o gymunedau gwledig yn creu gormod o dai cost isel, sydd yn dirywio’n gyflym gan nad oes digon ohonynt wedi’u meddiannu. Y broblem ar hyn o bryd mewn cymunedau yng Ngwynedd, Ceredigion, Sir Gaerfyrddin a Chastell-nedd Port Talbot yw nid bod dim digon o gartrefi fforddiadwy ar gael ond nad oes digon o alw am y tai sydd yno’n barod.
In some rural communities, particularly coastal communities, low local demand for housing is accompanied by a comparatively high demand from incomers who are looking for a retirement home or a second home. This can have benefits for the local population, by putting extra income into the local economy and stopping many houses from becoming run-down. However, in some areas, it can also cause severe problems for local people on low incomes, who are priced out of their own housing market, even when they have a job that might have helped them to stay within the community. To some extent, that is the subject under discussion today.
Mewn rhai cymunedau gwledig, yn arbennig cymunedau arfordirol, mae galw lleol isel am dai yn cyd-fynd â galw cymharol uchel gan fewnfudwyr sydd yn edrych am gartrefi i ymddeol iddynt neu am ail gartref. Gall hyn greu manteision i’r boblogaeth leol, drwy roi incwm ychwanegol i’r economi leol ac atal gormod o dai rhag dirywio. Fodd bynnag, mewn rhai ardaloedd, gall hefyd achosi problemau difrifol i bobl leol ar incwm isel, sydd yn cael eu prisio o’u marchnad dai eu hunain, hyd yn oed pan fydd ganddynt swydd a allai fod wedi eu helpu i aros o fewn y gymuned. I ryw raddau, dyna’r pwnc trafod heddiw.
This issue is of such concern that the Minister for Environment, Sue Essex, responded to the recommendations of the land use planning forum by commissioning a research project on second and holiday homes and the land use planning system. The project is currently out to tender. It is anticipated that it will start next month. We will establish the number and location of second and holiday homes in rural communities and identify how data collection systems could be improved. The project will analyse the effect of these homes on local housing markets and make recommendations on how the planning system could be used to positive effect. I concur with the points made by Glyn Davies about balance. The planning policy followed in the Lake District is not a panacea to all our ills. There are issues regarding intervention, and we must consider the plusses and minuses. Also, there is evidence in the Lake District to indicate that the policy has inflated house prices in the area.
Mae hwn yn fater sydd yn achosi cymaint o bryder fel bod y Gweinidog dros yr Amgylchedd, Sue Essex, wedi ymateb i argymhellion y fforwm cynllunio ar ddefnydd tir drwy gomisiynu prosiect ymchwil ar ail gartrefi a chartrefi gwyliau a’r system gynllunio defnydd tir. Mae’r prosiect ar hyn o bryd wedi ei osod ar dendr. Rhagwelir y bydd yn dechrau’r mis nesaf. Byddwn yn pennu nifer a lleoliad ail gartrefi a chartrefi gwyliau mewn cymunedau gwledig ac yn nodi sut y gellid gwella systemau casglu data. Bydd y prosiect yn dadansoddi effaith y cartrefi hynny ar farchnadoedd tai lleol ac yn gwneud argymhellion ar sut y gellid defnyddio’r system gynllunio mewn ffordd gadarnhaol. Cytunaf â’r pwyntiau a godwyd gan Glyn Davies ynglŷn â chydbwysedd. Nid yw’r polisi cynllunio a ddilynir yn Ardal y Llynnoedd yn ateb pob un o’n problemau. Mae materion o ran ymyrraeth, a rhaid inni ystyried y manteision a’r anfanteision. Hefyd, mae tystiolaeth yn Ardal y Llynnoedd sydd yn awgrymu bod y polisi wedi codi prisiau tai yn yr ardal.
The research project has been well publicised. I am surprised that reference was not made to it in the Plaid Cymru taskforce report’s recommendations for further research.
Cafodd y prosiect ymchwil gyhoeddusrwydd da. Yr wyf yn synnu na chyfeiriwyd ato o fewn argymhellion adroddiad tasglu Plaid Cymru ar gyfer ymchwil bellach.
The best appraisals of housing need are undertaken locally. They need to be organised by the principal local authorities and there are examples of good support from community councils on this. In the guidance that I provided on housing strategies, I stressed the need for housing need surveys and I have made resources available. Local authorities, as community leaders, must take this responsibility seriously. I will be looking for better quality information in the future.
Cyflawnir y gwerthusiadau gorau o anghenion tai yn lleol. Mae angen iddynt gael eu trefnu gan y prif awdurdodau lleol a cheir enghreifftiau o gefnogaeth dda gan gynghorau cymuned ar hyn. Yn yr arweiniad a ddarperais ar strategaethau tai, pwysleisiais yr angen am arolygon anghenion tai a sicrheais fod adnoddau ar gael. Rhaid i awdurdodau lleol, fel arweinwyr cymunedau, gymryd y cyfrifoldeb dros hyn o ddifrif. Byddaf yn edrych am wybodaeth o ansawdd gwell yn y dyfodol.
For many years, it has been possible for local authorities to identify sites for housing development that are reserved for affordable homes for people with local connections. The Assembly has published advice on how that objective can be achieved in the preparation of unitary development plans. Local authorities need to give priority to the preparation of their development plans, as well as to their housing need surveys, and integrate those two activities. That is of key importance.
Ers blynyddoedd lawer, bu’n bosibl i awdurdodau lleol nodi safleoedd ar gyfer datblygiadau tai a gedwir ar gyfer cartrefi fforddiadwy i bobl â chysylltiadau lleol. Mae’r Cynulliad wedi cyhoeddi cyngor ar sut y gellir cyflawni’r amcan hwnnw wrth baratoi cynlluniau datblygu unedol. Mae angen i awdurdodau lleol roi’r flaenoriaeth i baratoi eu cynlluniau datblygu, yn ogystal â’u harolygon anghenion tai, a chyfuno’r ddau weithgaredd hwnnw. Mae hynny’n allweddol bwysig.
Wales is ahead of other parts of the UK in charging 100 per cent council tax for all homes, including second homes. Moving, as has been suggested, to 200 per cent council tax for second homes would create definition and implementation problems. There is no evidence that that would have a positive effect for local people competing in a local housing market, which must be the key issue for us.
Mae Cymru ar y blaen i rannau eraill o’r DU gan ei bod yn codi treth gyngor o 100 y cant ar gyfer pob cartref, gan gynnwys ail gartrefi. Byddai newid, fel yr awgrymwyd, i dreth gyngor o 200 y cant ar gyfer ail gartrefi yn creu problemau diffinio a gweithredu. Nid oes unrhyw dystiolaeth y cai hynny effaith gadarnhaol ar bobl leol sydd yn cystadlu mewn marchnad dai leol, a dyna beth ddylai fod yn allweddol bwysig inni.
Where the response to housing need is the construction of new housing for rent by registered social landlords, I have made £18 million available to local authorities in rural areas for allocation to RSLs. I recognise that the ambition of some people in rural areas is to own, rather than rent, homes. Therefore, we have introduced a low-cost home ownership scheme called homebuy. This year, I reduced the required equity share for this scheme from 70 to 50 per cent. That should allow more people to gain from it.
Lle yr ymatebir i’r angen am dai drwy adeiladu tai newydd i’w rhentu gan landlordiaid cymdeithasol cofrestredig, yr wyf wedi sicrhau bod £18 miliwn ar gael i awdurdodau lleol mewn ardaloedd gwledig i’w ddyrannu i’r landlordiaid hynny. Yr wyf yn cydnabod mai uchelgais rhai pobl mewn ardaloedd gwledig yw bod yn berchen ar gartrefi, yn hytrach na’u rhentu. Felly, cyflwynasom gynllun perchenogaeth gartref cost isel o’r enw prynu cartref. Eleni, gostyngais y gyfran ecwiti a oedd yn ofynnol ar gyfer y cynllun hwn o 70 i 50 y cant. Dylai hynny ganiatáu i fwy o bobl elwa arno.
I accept that people want access to existing houses as well as new houses in rural areas. RSLs have been deterred by the relatively high costs of renovating older properties. I have been consulting on whether the Assembly’s regulations could lessen that deterrent and I will soon reach conclusions from that consultation.
Derbyniaf fod pobl am gael mynediad i dai presennol yn ogystal â thai newydd mewn ardaloedd gwledig. Rhwystrwyd landlordiaid cymdeithasol cofrestredig gan gostau cymharol uchel adfer adeiladau hŷn. Bûm yn ymgynghori i weld a allai rheoliadau’r Cynulliad leihau’r rhwystr hwnnw a byddaf yn dod i benderfyniad yn fuan yn dilyn yr ymgynghori hwnnw.
Much work is ongoing to influence rural housing markets, but much more needs to be done by us and by local authorities. I return to my original point, which is that, unless we can create dynamic and sustainable local communities, the impact of intervention in housing markets will be limited. Therefore, the key issues are the economic issues.
Mae llawer o waith yn mynd rhagddo i ddylanwadu ar farchnadoedd tai gwledig, ond mae angen i ni ac awdurdodau lleol wneud llawer mwy. Dychwelaf at fy mhwynt gwreiddiol, sef, oni allwn greu gymunedau lleol deinamig a chynaliadwy, cyfyngir ar effaith ymyrryd yn y marchnadoedd tai. Felly, y materion allweddol yw’r materion economaidd.
I will finish by touching on the impact of housing markets on the Welsh language. I hope that it is recognised that a commitment to further developing the Welsh language in a genuinely bilingual Wales is shared by everyone in the National Assembly. Assembly guidance requires that local authorities identify communities where the use of the Welsh language is part of the social fabric. Where that is the case, the unitary development plans must have regard to the needs and interests of the Welsh language. The Plaid Cymru research report asks for the Welsh language to be a consideration in planning the scale of developments. However, it should be recognised—and Helen recognised this in her contribution—that that is in hand.
Gorffennaf drwy sôn yn fyr am effaith y marchnadoedd tai ar yr iaith Gymraeg. Gobeithiaf y cydnabyddir bod yr ymrwymiad i ddatblygu’r iaith Gymraeg ymhellach mewn Cymru wirioneddol ddwyieithog yn un a rennir gan bawb yn y Cynulliad Cenedlaethol. Mae arweiniad y Cynulliad yn ei gwneud yn ofynnol i awdurdodau lleol nodi cymunedau lle mae defnyddio’r Gymraeg yn rhan o’r ffabrig cymdeithasol. Lle mae hynny’n wir, rhaid i’r cynlluniau datblygu unedol ystyried anghenion a buddiannau’r iaith Gymraeg. Mae adroddiad ymchwil Plaid Cymru yn galw am ystyried y Gymraeg wrth gynllunio maint y datblygiadau. Fodd bynnag, dylid cydnabod—a chydnabu Helen hyn yn ei chyfraniad—fod hynny eisoes ar y gweill.
The Welsh language and its heartland communities are important, but they are not preserved in aspic. They are living and developing communities. As has been said, we must ensure that everybody is welcome in those communities, that the Welsh language thrives within them and that rural communities continue to develop.
Mae’r iaith Gymraeg a’i chadarnleoedd yn bwysig, ond nid ydynt yn sefyll yn yr unfan. Maent yn gymunedau byw a datblygol. Fel y dywedwyd, rhaid inni sicrhau bod croeso i bawb yn y cymunedau hynny, bod yr iaith Gymraeg yn ffynnu ynddynt a bod cymunedau gwledig yn parhau i ddatblygu.
As Minister for Finance, Local Government and Communities, with responsibility for housing, I will continue to act in every way possible to create affordable housing for local people in rural communities. Much is happening now. I enjoyed listening to the debate and I will consider all the suggestions made. In making a difference, I will work with the Minister for Economic Development, the Minister for Environment, the Minister for Rural Affairs and the Minister for Culture, Sport and the Welsh Language. This is a cross-cutting issue. It is not just about housing within local government; it is about all the streams and factors of our policy.
Fel y Gweinidog dros Gyllid, Llywodraeth Leol a Chymunedau, gyda’r cyfrifoldeb am dai, byddaf yn parhau i weithredu ymhob ffordd bosibl i greu tai fforddiadwy i bobl leol mewn cymunedau gwledig. Mae llawer yn digwydd ar hyn o bryd. Mwynheais wrando ar y ddadl a byddaf yn ystyried yr holl awgrymiadau a wnaethpwyd. Er mwyn gwneud gwahaniaeth, byddaf yn gweithio gyda’r Gweinidog dros Ddatblygu Economaidd, y Gweinidog dros yr Amgylchedd, y Gweinidog dros Faterion Gwledig a’r Gweinidog dros Ddiwylliant, Chwaraeon a’r Gymraeg. Mae hwn yn fater trawsbynciol. Nid yw’n ymwneud â thai o fewn llywodraeth leol yn unig; mae’n ymwneud â phob un o feysydd a ffactorau ein polisi.
I have read in detail the Plaid Cymru task group report on rural housing and I noted the actions to which that party referred. Ten of the 12 actions are already being implemented. On the other two actions, no case has been made for doubling council tax for second homes, and building regulations apply whether or not a renovation grant is received.
Darllenais adroddiad tasglu Plaid Cymru ar dai gwledig yn fanwl a nodais y camau gweithredu y cyfeiriodd y blaid honno atynt. Mae 10 o’r 12 eisoes yn cael eu gweithredu. O ran y ddau gam gweithredu arall, nid oedd cyfiawnhad dros ddyblu’r dreth gyngor ar gyfer ail gartrefi, a bydd rheoliadau adeiladu yn berthnasol pa un a dderbynnir grant adnewyddu ai peidio.
In response to Janet Ryder, the ideas in Plaid Cymru’s report are not new. You are on the back foot on this and I am already 100 metres ahead. I have started to implement some of these projects. I ask you to reject the motion, recognising that matters are in hand but that there is much more to do. On the amendments, you cannot improve this motion and we will abstain on them.
Mewn ymateb i Janet Ryder, nid yw’r syniadau yn adroddiad Plaid Cymru yn newydd. Yr ydych ar ei hôl hi ac yr wyf innau eisoes 100 metr ar y blaen i chi. Yr wyf wedi dechrau gweithredu rhai o’r prosiectau hyn. Gofynnaf ichi wrthod y cynnig, gan gydnabod bod materion ar waith ond bod llawer eto i’w wneud. O ran y gwelliannau, ni allwch wella’r cynnig hwn a byddwn yn ymatal arnynt.
I appreciate the comments of the proposer of the motion about the work that is in hand. We must ensure that the rural housing debate is about rural housing and not about other issues. I appreciate all contributions to this debate by all parties. If there are more ideas to put into the pot, I will consider them, but I am already implementing the majority of the Plaid Cymru report’s recommendations. Perhaps I am just not a good publicist of what I do.
Gwerthfawrogaf sylwadau cynigydd y cynnig ynglŷn â’r gwaith sydd ar y gweill. Rhaid inni sicrhau bod y ddadl ar dai gwledig yn ymwneud â thai gwledig ac nid â materion eraill. Gwerthfawrogaf bob cyfraniad i’r ddadl hon gan bob plaid. Os oes gennych ragor o syniadau, byddaf yn eu hystyried, ond yr wyf eisoes yn gweithredu mwyafrif argymhellion adroddiad Plaid Cymru. Efallai nad wyf yn rhy dda wrth gyhoeddi’r hyn a wnaf.
Diolchaf i Edwina am y modd y mae hi wedi ymateb i’r ddadl hon. Gresynwn nad yw’n fodlon cefnogi’r cynnig, ond yr ydym yn falch ei bod wedi ystyried yr holl bwyntiau a wnaethpwyd yn ein dogfen ac y bydd yn gweithio ar y materion hynny. Mae hynny ynddo ei hun yn cyfiawnhau cynnal y ddadl hon heddiw. Ni chredaf fod cymaint â deg o’r 12 argymhelliad yn cael eu gweithredu eisoes. Er enghraifft, ar wahân i’r ddau y cyfeiriodd Edwina atynt, ni chredaf y datblygwyd asesiadau effaith hyd yn hyn, ac ni chredaf ychwaith fod penderfyniadau wedi eu gwneud ar rai o’r materion sydd ganddi hi, a chan Sue Essex, o dan ystyriaeth ar hyn o bryd. Felly, byddem yn falch o weld symud ymlaen yn y cyfeiriad a argymhellwyd gennym pan fydd y rhain wedi eu cwblhau. Fodd bynnag, ar hyn o bryd, maent yn cael eu trafod a’u hystyried.
I thank Edwina for the way in which she responded to this debate. We regret the fact that she is not willing to support the motion, but we are pleased that she has considered all the points made in our document and that she will work on these issues. That, in itself, justifies holding this debate today. I do not believe that as many as ten of the 12 recommendations are already being implemented. For example, apart from the two that Edwina referred to, I do not believe that impact assessments have yet been taken forward, nor do I believe that some of the matters that she and Sue Essex currently have under consideration have been decided upon. Therefore, we would be pleased to see movement in the direction that we recommended when those have been completed. However, they are currently being discussed and considered.
O’n hymholiadau ni, ac o brofiad llawer ohonom, mae teimlad bod diffyg ystadegau a gwybodaeth fanwl ynglŷn â chyflwr tai ac ynglŷn â’r galw am dai yng Nghymru. Mae hyn yn deillio o amharodrwydd y Swyddfa Gymreig, o dan wahanol lywodraethau, i ddarparu’r adnoddau angenrheidiol i’r gwaith hwn. Os ydym am allu ymdopi â phroblemau tai yn gyffredinol yng Nghymru, nid tai gwledig yn unig, mae angen y ffeithiau hyn arnom mor llawn ag y bo modd.
From our inquiries, and from the experience of many of us, there is a feeling that there is a lack of detailed statistics and knowledge about the condition of housing and about the demand for housing in Wales. This stems from an unwillingness on behalf of the Welsh Office, under various governments, to provide the necessary resources for this work. If we are to be able to cope with housing problems in general in Wales, not only rural housing, we need these facts to be as complete as possible.
Croesawaf hefyd ymagwedd wahanol Peter Black yn ei gyfraniad heddiw. Yr oedd yn wahanol i’r datganiad i’r wasg a roddodd ar fore cyhoeddi ein dogfen, gyda’r pennawd mawr, du: ‘Plaid Practises Policy of Exclusion’. Ymosododd yn chwyrn ar ein dadl. Erbyn canol dydd y diwrnod hwnnw yr oedd wedi darllen y ddogfen. Yn sgîl hynny bu’n ailfriffio’r wasg a dweud bod y Llywodraeth eisoes yn gweithio ar y mater, fel y clywsom gan Edwina heddiw. Mae’n drueni nad yw Peter yn aros i ddarllen argymhellion cyn rhoi datganiadau i’r wasg.
I also welcome Peter Black’s different approach in his contribution today. It was different to the press release he gave on the morning that we published our document, with the large, bold heading: ‘Plaid Practises Policy of Exclusion’. He viciously attacked our argument. By midday on that day he had read the document. After that he rebriefed the press and said that the Government was already working on the issue, as we heard from Edwina today. It is a shame that Peter does not wait to read recommendations before he sends out press releases.
Trof at sylfaen y ddadl hon. Mae chwe phroblem i’w hystyried. Sut mae galluogi pobl sydd â gwreiddiau yn ein hardaloedd gwledig ac sydd, o bosibl, ar incwm isel, i brynu tai addas at eu hanghenion, o fewn eu cymunedau? Yn ail, sut mae galluogi’r rhan honno o’r un garfan sydd am rentu tai i wneud hynny? Yn drydydd, sut mae gwneud hynny heb orfod adeiladu tai mewn ardaloedd o harddwch naturiol, sydd yn groes i’n polisïau amgylcheddol? Yn bedwerydd, sut mae rhwystro twf tai haf, sydd yn gallu lladd ein pentrefi pan fyddant yn cyrraedd lefelau uchel, a’u gadael yn ddifywyd a dienaid am gyfnodau mawr yn y gaeaf? Mae’r patrwm hwnnw yn arwain at gau siopau a swyddfeydd post. Dyna pam yr ydym yn argymell treth gyngor uwch ar dai haf—argymhelliad braidd yn ddadleuol—er mwyn cael yr adnoddau i helpu i gynnal swyddfeydd post, siopau ac ati. Byddai rhan o achos y broblem wedyn yn helpu i gyfrannu’n ariannol at gael ateb i’r broblem. Yn bumed, sut y gallwn sicrhau nad yw’r Gymraeg yn cael ei gwasgu allan o’i chadarnleoedd ac nad yw’r iaith yn ddigartref? Yn chweched, mae angen sicrhau bod gennym sylfaen o ffigurau a ffeithiau manwl.
I turn to the substance of this debate. There are six problems to consider. How do we enable people with roots in our rural areas, and who are possibly on a low income, to buy houses that are suitable for their needs, within their communities? Second, how do we enable that part of the same group who want to rent housing to do so? Third, how is that to be done without having to build housing in areas of natural beauty, which contravenes our environmental policies? Fourth, how can we prevent the growth of second homes, which can kill our villages when they reach high levels, and leave them lifeless and soulless for long periods in the winter? That pattern leads to the closure of shops and post offices. That is why we recommend a higher council tax on second homes—a somewhat controversial recommendation—in order to have the resources to help support post offices, shops and so on. A part of the problem would then be helping to contribute financially to solving that problem. Fifth, how can we ensure that the Welsh language is not squeezed out of its strongholds and that the language does not find itself homeless? Sixth, we need to ensure that we have a basis of detailed facts and figures.
Dyna’r ystyriaethau sydd yn sail i’r ddogfen a gyflwynasom. Gwnaethom hynny yn adeiladol, gan roi argymhellion gerbron y gellid eu gweithredu, i raddau helaeth, gan y Cynulliad. Credwn fod angen un newid—newid y tybiwn, o beth yr oedd Edwina yn ei ddweud, y byddai hithau yn falch o’i gael—yn rhai o’r safonau sydd yn rhan o ddeddfwriaeth wreiddiol San Steffan. Byddai’n rhaid wrth newid y ddeddfwriaeth yn Llundain ar hynny, o bosibl, i gyflawni’r hyn y mae’n gobeithio ei wneud, fel y gobeithiwn ninnau ei wneud. Erfyniaf ar y Llywodraeth i gyflwyno’r neges hon i Paul Murphy i weld a ellid rhoi cymal yn y Mesur Cartrefi sydd yn mynd drwy’r Senedd y flwyddyn hon i roi’r pŵer i’r Cynulliad ymdrin â hyn neu weithredu’r newidiadau yr ydym yn gofyn amdanynt.
Those are the considerations behind the document that we presented. We did so constructively, putting forward recommendations that could be implemented, to a large degree, by the Assembly. We believe that one change is needed—a change that I think Edwina herself would be pleased to see, from what she said—in some of the standards that are part of the original Westminster legislation. Changes would possibly have to be made to legislation in London to achieve what she wants to do, as we want to do. I urge the Government to pass this message on to Paul Murphy to see whether a clause could be added to the Homes Bill, which is going through Parliament this year, to give the Assembly the power to deal with this or to implement the changes that we are calling for.
Un o’r argymhellion pwysicaf yw’r un y gweithredodd Edwina Hart ei hun arno ym mis Chwefror yn fuan ar ôl y ddadl yn y Siambr ar broblemau tai gwledig, sef i newid y ganran y mae’r cynllun prynu cartref yn ei chaniatáu o ran cyfraniad y wladwriaeth, sef cynnydd o 30 y cant i 50 y cant. Gwnaiff hynny wahaniaeth mawr i lawer o bobl. Dychmygwch fod tŷ ar werth am £80,000. Ni fyddai gan rywun ar incwm o £200 i £250 yr wythnos obaith o gael morgais o fwy na £35,000 neu £40,000. Fodd bynnag, pe bai modd cael hanner yr arian o’r gronfa wladol drwy’r cymdeithasau tai, byddai hynny’n gwneud gwahaniaeth mawr. Amcangyfrifwn fod angen i tua 500 i 600 o dai y flwyddyn gael eu darparu drwy’r gyfundrefn hon. Dyna pam y teimlwn fod angen mwy na’r £3 miliwn sydd ar gael ar hyn o bryd. Fodd bynnag, mae angen annog ein cymdeithasau tai a’n cynghorau i sicrhau bod yr wybodaeth am y cynllun hwn ar gael i bobl. Ar hyn o bryd, mae’r wybodaeth yn llawer rhy annigonol. Mae angen swm, felly, sydd yn nes at £10 miliwn ar gyfer y nifer hwnnw o dai, ond ni cheir y galw hwnnw nes bod pobl yn gwybod yn union pa gynllun sydd ar gael. Mae angen canllawiau hefyd—
One of the most important recommendations is the one that Edwina Hart herself acted upon in February soon after the debate in the Chamber on rural housing problems, to change the percentage allowed under the homebuy scheme regarding the state’s contribution, an increase from 30 per cent to 50 per cent. That will make a great difference to many people. Imagine that a house is for sale for £80,000. Someone with an income of £200 to £250 a week would have no chance of getting a mortgage of more than £35,000 or £40,000. However, if it were possible to get half that money from state funding through the housing associations, that would make a great deal of difference. We estimate that about 500 to 600 homes a year need to be provided through this system. That is why we feel that we need more than the £3 million that is currently available. However, we need to encourage our housing associations and our councils to ensure that the information about this scheme is available to people. Currently, the information is far too inadequate. We need a sum, therefore, that is closer to £10 million for that number of houses, but we will only have that demand when people know exactly what scheme is available. We also need guidelines—
John Marek The Deputy Presiding Officer spoken in English p. 114
John Marek Y Dirprwy Lywydd siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 114
Order. Your five minutes are up.
Trefn. Daeth eich pum munud i ben.
I have six and a half minutes. It is the balance of the time out of 15 minutes. Eight and a half minutes were used for proposing the motion.
Mae gennyf chwe munud a hanner. Dyna’r amser sydd yn weddill ar ôl 15 munud. Defnyddiwyd wyth munud a hanner i gynnig y cynnig.
John Marek The Deputy Presiding Officer spoken in English p. 114
John Marek Y Dirprwy Lywydd siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 114
Yes, you are right, I am sorry.
Yr ydych yn gywir, mae’n ddrwg gennyf.
Mae’r wybodaeth a ddarperir ar hyn o bryd i’r cymdeithasau tai braidd yn annelwig. Noda mai mater i’r cymdeithasau tai yw penderfynu beth fydd y rheolau o safbwynt yr incwm a gwerth y tai, ac ati, y maent yn eu darparu drwy’r cynllun prynu cartref. Mae angen canllawiau manylach ar gyfer cymdeithasau tai ac ar gyfer ein cynghorau lleol os yw hynny am gael ei weithredu.
The information that is currently provided to housing associations is rather vague. It notes that it is a matter for the housing associations to decide what the rules and regulations will be in terms of income and the value of houses, and so on, which they provide through the homebuy scheme. We need more detailed guidelines for housing associations and for our local councils if that is to be implemented.
Sylweddolaf fy mod yn dod at derfyn fy amser. Pwysaf, felly, ar y Llywodraeth, yn yr ysbryd yr ydym wedi cyflwyno’r rhaglen hon, i weithredu’n fanwl, os yn bosibl, ar bob un o’r argymhellion, heb wrthod yr un ohonynt, gan weld beth y gellir ei wneud a chan drafod ymhellach. Ond mae’n rhaid gweithredu o fewn y flwyddyn hon. Mae’r broblem yn rhy bwysig i adael iddi redeg ymlaen ac ymlaen. Mae angen yr atebion hyn yng nghefn gwlad, a gorau po gyntaf y gweithredwn hwy.
I realise that I am coming to the end of my time. I therefore press the Government, in the spirit in which we have presented this programme, to act in detail, if possible, on all these recommendations, without rejecting any of them, by seeing what can be done and discussing it further. However, action must be taken within the year. The problem is too important to be allowed to run on and on. We need these answers in rural Wales, and the sooner we act on them the better.
Gwelliant 1 William Graham t. 115
Amendment 1 William Graham p. 115
GwrthodwydRejected O blaidFor 8 YmatalAbstain 25 Yn erbynAgainst 13
Gwrthodwyd y gwelliant.
Amendment defeated.
Sut y pleidleisiodd yr AelodauHow Members voted
O blaidFor (8)
- Nick Bourne
- Alun Cairns
- David Davies
- Glyn Davies
- William Graham
- Jonathan Morgan
- Rod Richards
- Peter Rogers
YmatalAbstain (25)
- Lorraine Barrett
- Mick Bates
- Peter Black
- Eleanor Burnham
- Rosemary Butler
- Christine Chapman
- Jane Davidson
- Andrew Davies
- Richard Edwards
- Sue Essex
- Delyth Evans
- Michael German
- Brian Gibbons
- Janice Gregory
- John Griffiths
- Edwina Hart
- Ann Jones
- Peter Law
- Huw Lewis
- Tom Middlehurst
- Rhodri Morgan
- Lynne Neagle
- Alun Pugh
- Karen Sinclair
- Gwenda Thomas
Yn erbynAgainst (13)
- Geraint Davies
- Janet Davies
- Jocelyn Davies
- Brian Hancock
- Elin Jones
- Gareth Jones
- Helen Mary Jones
- Ieuan Wyn Jones
- David Lloyd
- Janet Ryder
- Owen John Thomas
- Dafydd Wigley
- Phil Williams
Tynnwyd gwelliant 2 yn ôl.
Amendment 2 withdrawn.
Gwelliant 3 William Graham t. 115
Amendment 3 William Graham p. 115
DerbyniwydAdopted O blaidFor 21 YmatalAbstain 26 Yn erbynAgainst 0
Derbyniwyd y gwelliant.
Amendment carried.
Sut y pleidleisiodd yr AelodauHow Members voted
O blaidFor (21)
- Nick Bourne
- Alun Cairns
- David Davies
- Geraint Davies
- Glyn Davies
- Janet Davies
- Jocelyn Davies
- William Graham
- Brian Hancock
- Elin Jones
- Gareth Jones
- Helen Mary Jones
- Ieuan Wyn Jones
- David Lloyd
- Jonathan Morgan
- Rod Richards
- Peter Rogers
- Janet Ryder
- Owen John Thomas
- Dafydd Wigley
- Phil Williams
YmatalAbstain (26)
- Lorraine Barrett
- Mick Bates
- Peter Black
- Eleanor Burnham
- Rosemary Butler
- Christine Chapman
- Jane Davidson
- Andrew Davies
- Richard Edwards
- Sue Essex
- Delyth Evans
- Michael German
- Brian Gibbons
- Janice Gregory
- John Griffiths
- Edwina Hart
- Ann Jones
- Peter Law
- Huw Lewis
- Tom Middlehurst
- Rhodri Morgan
- Lynne Neagle
- Alun Pugh
- Jenny Randerson
- Karen Sinclair
- Gwenda Thomas
Gwelliant 4 William Graham t. 116
Amendment 4 William Graham p. 116
GwrthodwydRejected O blaidFor 8 YmatalAbstain 26 Yn erbynAgainst 13
Gwrthodwyd y gwelliant.
Amendment defeated.
Sut y pleidleisiodd yr AelodauHow Members voted
O blaidFor (8)
- Nick Bourne
- Alun Cairns
- David Davies
- Glyn Davies
- William Graham
- Jonathan Morgan
- Rod Richards
- Peter Rogers
YmatalAbstain (26)
- Lorraine Barrett
- Mick Bates
- Peter Black
- Eleanor Burnham
- Rosemary Butler
- Christine Chapman
- Jane Davidson
- Andrew Davies
- Richard Edwards
- Sue Essex
- Delyth Evans
- Michael German
- Brian Gibbons
- Janice Gregory
- John Griffiths
- Edwina Hart
- Ann Jones
- Peter Law
- Huw Lewis
- Tom Middlehurst
- Rhodri Morgan
- Lynne Neagle
- Alun Pugh
- Jenny Randerson
- Karen Sinclair
- Gwenda Thomas
Yn erbynAgainst (13)
- Geraint Davies
- Janet Davies
- Jocelyn Davies
- Brian Hancock
- Elin Jones
- Gareth Jones
- Helen Mary Jones
- Ieuan Wyn Jones
- David Lloyd
- Janet Ryder
- Owen John Thomas
- Dafydd Wigley
- Phil Williams
Gwelliant 5 William Graham t. 117
Amendment 5 William Graham p. 117
GwrthodwydRejected O blaidFor 8 YmatalAbstain 27 Yn erbynAgainst 13
Gwrthodwyd y gwelliant.
Amendment defeated.
Sut y pleidleisiodd yr AelodauHow Members voted
O blaidFor (8)
- Nick Bourne
- Alun Cairns
- David Davies
- Glyn Davies
- William Graham
- Jonathan Morgan
- Rod Richards
- Peter Rogers
YmatalAbstain (27)
- Lorraine Barrett
- Mick Bates
- Peter Black
- Eleanor Burnham
- Rosemary Butler
- Christine Chapman
- Jane Davidson
- Andrew Davies
- Ron Davies
- Richard Edwards
- Sue Essex
- Delyth Evans
- Michael German
- Brian Gibbons
- Janice Gregory
- John Griffiths
- Edwina Hart
- Ann Jones
- Peter Law
- Huw Lewis
- Tom Middlehurst
- Rhodri Morgan
- Lynne Neagle
- Alun Pugh
- Jenny Randerson
- Karen Sinclair
- Gwenda Thomas
Yn erbynAgainst (13)
- Geraint Davies
- Janet Davies
- Jocelyn Davies
- Brian Hancock
- Elin Jones
- Gareth Jones
- Helen Mary Jones
- Ieuan Wyn Jones
- David Lloyd
- Janet Ryder
- Owen John Thomas
- Dafydd Wigley
- Phil Williams
Gwelliant 6 William Graham t. 118
Amendment 6 William Graham p. 118
DerbyniwydAdopted O blaidFor 21 YmatalAbstain 27 Yn erbynAgainst 0
Derbyniwyd y gwelliant.
Amendment carried.
Sut y pleidleisiodd yr AelodauHow Members voted
O blaidFor (21)
- Nick Bourne
- Alun Cairns
- David Davies
- Geraint Davies
- Glyn Davies
- Janet Davies
- Jocelyn Davies
- William Graham
- Brian Hancock
- Elin Jones
- Gareth Jones
- Helen Mary Jones
- Ieuan Wyn Jones
- David Lloyd
- Jonathan Morgan
- Rod Richards
- Peter Rogers
- Janet Ryder
- Owen John Thomas
- Dafydd Wigley
- Phil Williams
YmatalAbstain (27)
- Lorraine Barrett
- Mick Bates
- Peter Black
- Eleanor Burnham
- Rosemary Butler
- Christine Chapman
- Jane Davidson
- Andrew Davies
- Ron Davies
- Richard Edwards
- Sue Essex
- Delyth Evans
- Michael German
- Brian Gibbons
- Janice Gregory
- John Griffiths
- Edwina Hart
- Ann Jones
- Peter Law
- Huw Lewis
- Tom Middlehurst
- Rhodri Morgan
- Lynne Neagle
- Alun Pugh
- Jenny Randerson
- Karen Sinclair
- Gwenda Thomas
Cynnig wedi’i ddiwygio Janet Davies t. 119
Amended motion Janet Davies p. 119
GwrthodwydRejected O blaidFor 13 YmatalAbstain 0 Yn erbynAgainst 35
Gwrthodwyd y cynnig.
Motion defeated.
Sut y pleidleisiodd yr AelodauHow Members voted
O blaidFor (13)
- Geraint Davies
- Janet Davies
- Jocelyn Davies
- Brian Hancock
- Elin Jones
- Gareth Jones
- Helen Mary Jones
- Ieuan Wyn Jones
- David Lloyd
- Janet Ryder
- Owen John Thomas
- Dafydd Wigley
- Phil Williams
Yn erbynAgainst (35)
- Lorraine Barrett
- Mick Bates
- Peter Black
- Nick Bourne
- Eleanor Burnham
- Rosemary Butler
- Alun Cairns
- Christine Chapman
- Jane Davidson
- Andrew Davies
- David Davies
- Glyn Davies
- Ron Davies
- Richard Edwards
- Sue Essex
- Delyth Evans
- Michael German
- Brian Gibbons
- William Graham
- Janice Gregory
- John Griffiths
- Edwina Hart
- Ann Jones
- Peter Law
- Huw Lewis
- Tom Middlehurst
- Jonathan Morgan
- Rhodri Morgan
- Lynne Neagle
- Alun Pugh
- Jenny Randerson
- Rod Richards
- Peter Rogers
- Karen Sinclair
- Gwenda Thomas
Daeth y cyfarfod i ben am 1.05 p.m.
The session ended at 1.05 p.m.