English

Cynulliad Cenedlaethol CymruNational Assembly for Wales · Cyfarfod llawnPlenary sitting

Dydd Iau 18 Hydref 2001

Thursday 18 October 2001

DechreuoddMet 09:05 · Daeth i benRose 13:09

Gweld y Cofnod (PDF)View the Record (PDF)

Heb ei wirio â llaw etoNot yet checked by hand

CynnwysContents

  1. 3Cwestiynau ar Lywodraeth Leol i’r Gweinidog dros Gyllid, Llywodraeth Leol a ChymunedauQuestions on Local Government to the Minister for Finance, Local Government and Communities
    1. 3Tlodi yng Nghanol De CymruPoverty in South Wales Central
    2. 5Atebolrwydd Democrataidd mewn Llywodraeth LeolDemocratic Accountability in Local Government
    3. 6Newidiadau i Fformiwla Cyllido Llywodraeth LeolChanges to the Local Government Funding Formula
    4. 7Cyflwyno Treth Fusnes AtodolIntroduction of a Supplementary Business Rate
    5. 8Cyfle Cyfartal yng NghymruEquality of Opportunity in Wales
    6. 10Cyfarfod â Chyngor Sir PenfroMeeting with Pembrokeshire County Council
    7. 11Monitro Ymgynghoriadau gan GynghorauMonitoring of Council Consultations
    8. 12Cytundebau Gwerth Gorau Awdurdodau LleolLocal Authorities’ Best Value Contracts
  2. 13Cwestiynau i’r Gweinidog dros yr AmgylcheddQuestions to the Minister for Environment
    1. 13Defnydd o Safleoedd Tir Glas ar Gyfer Datblygu Tai NewyddUse of Greenfield Sites for New Housing Development
    2. 15Ailddrafftio Canllawiau Cynllunio (Strategaeth Wastraff)Redrafting of Planning Guidelines (Waste Strategy)
    3. 18Gwastraff BwrdeistrefolMunicipal Waste
    4. 20Amddiffynfeydd rhag LlifogyddFlood Defences
    5. 21Amddiffynfeydd Rhag Llifogydd ar Afon AlunFlood Defences on the River Alyn
    6. 23Ail Ddrafft ‘Polisi Cynllunio Cymru’Redrafting of ‘Planning Policy Wales’
  3. 24Pwyntiau o DrefnPoints of Order
  4. 33Cynnig TrefniadolProcedural Motion 1 bleidlais1 vote
  5. 34Datganiad gan y LlywyddStatement by the Presiding Officer
  6. 34Deddf Cysylltiadau Hiliol (Diwygio) 2000The Race Relations (Amendment) Act 2000 3 o bleidleisiau3 votes
  7. 43Cymeradwyo’r Gyllideb DdrafftApproval of the Draft Budget 3 o bleidleisiau3 votes
  8. 100Sefydlu Comisiwn Dylunio i GymruThe Establishment of a Design Commission for Wales 5 o bleidleisiau5 votes
  9. 118Dadl FerShort Debate
    1. 118Yr NHS yng Nghymru—Pam yr Holl Aros?The NHS in Wales—Why Are We Waiting?

PleidleisiauVotes

PleidlaisVoteO blaidForYmatalAbstainYn erbynAgainstCanlyniadResult
Cynnig TrefniadolProcedural Motion
Cynnig trefniadolProcedural motion4800DerbyniwydAdopted
Deddf Cysylltiadau Hiliol (Diwygio) 2000The Race Relations (Amendment) Act 2000
Cynnig NNDM790Motion NNDM7905000DerbyniwydAdopted
Cynnig NNDM790Motion NNDM7905000DerbyniwydAdopted
Cynnig NNDM790Motion NNDM7905000DerbyniwydAdopted
Cymeradwyo’r Gyllideb DdrafftApproval of the Draft Budget
Gwelliant 1Amendment 124032GwrthodwydRejected
Gwelliant 2Amendment 223132GwrthodwydRejected
Cynnig NDM786Motion NDM78632168DerbyniwydAdopted
Sefydlu Comisiwn Dylunio i GymruThe Establishment of a Design Commission for Wales
Cynnig NNDM785Motion NNDM7858039GwrthodwydRejected
Gwelliant 1Amendment 14800DerbyniwydAdopted
Gwelliant 5Amendment 54900DerbyniwydAdopted
Gwelliant 6Amendment 64900DerbyniwydAdopted
Cynnig NNDM785Motion NNDM7854900DerbyniwydAdopted

TrafodionProceedings

Cyfarfu’r Cynulliad am 9.05 a.m. gyda’r Llywydd yn y Gadair.

The Assembly met at 9.05 a.m. with the Presiding Officer in the Chair.

Cwestiynau ar Lywodraeth Leol i’r Gweinidog dros Gyllid, Llywodraeth Leol a Chymunedau

Questions on Local Government to the Minister for Finance, Local Government and Communities

Tlodi yng Nghanol De Cymru

Poverty in South Wales Central

Q1 Owen John Thomas spoken in English p. 3

C1 Owen John Thomas siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 3

Will the Minister make a statement on poverty in urban communities in South Wales Central? (OAQ12983)

A wnaiff y Gweinidog ddatganiad ar dlodi mewn cymunedau trefol yng Nghanol De Cymru? (OAQ12983)

Edwina Hart The Minister for Finance, Local Government and Communities spoken in English p. 3

Edwina Hart Y Gweinidog dros Gyllid, Llywodraeth Leol a Chymunedau siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 3

There are pockets of poverty in most communities throughout urban and rural Wales. In South Wales Central, 23 communities have been selected for the Communities First programme and are now eligible for support.

Mae pocedi o dlodi yn y rhan fwyaf o gymunedau drwy Gymru drefol a Chymru wledig. Yng Nghanol De Cymru, dewisiwyd 23 o gymunedau ar gyfer y rhaglen Rhoi Cymunedau’n Gyntaf ac maent bellach yn gymwys i gael cymorth.

Owen John Thomas spoken in English p. 3

Owen John Thomas siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 3

You will be aware that there is 95 per cent youth unemployment in Cardiff’s Somali community. Of the 100 wards with the highest levels of unemployment in Wales, 22 are in Rhondda Cynon Taf. What steps have you taken in the last year to address the dreadful deprivation in these communities in South Wales Central?

Byddwch yn ymwybodol bod 95 y cant o’r ieuenctid yng nghymuned Somali Caerdydd yn ddi-waith. O’r 100 o wardiau gyda’r lefelau uchaf o ddiweithdra yng Nghymru, mae 22 ohonynt yn Rhondda Cynon Taf. Pa gamau yr ydych wedi eu cymryd yn ystod y flwyddyn ddiwethaf i fynd i’r afael â’r amddifadedd ofnadwy yn y cymunedau hyn yng Nghanol De Cymru?

Edwina Hart spoken in English p. 3

Edwina Hart siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 3

The Communities First budget is a significant step towards addressing deprivation, providing £82.7 million over three years. I recognise that that will not transform deprived communities overnight, but it will assist in dealing with deprivation issues.

Mae cyllideb Rhoi Cymunedau’n Gyntaf yn gam sylweddol tuag at fynd i’r afael ag amddifadedd, drwy ddarparu £82.7 miliwn dros dair blynedd. Yr wyf yn cydnabod na fydd hyn yn trawsffurfio cymunedau difreintiedig dros nos, ond bydd yn cynorthwyo wrth fynd i’r afael â materion amddifadedd.

On your point about the Somali population, the administration is particularly concerned about unemployment levels there, and among other ethnic minorities. There are high levels of unemployment in other ethnic minority communities in Swansea, for example. It is incumbent on us to do as much as possible on economic and social issues to ensure that they are not socially and economically excluded.

O ran eich pwynt ar y boblogaeth Somali, mae’r weinyddiaeth yn arbennig o bryderus ynghylch lefelau diweithdra yno, ac ymysg lleiafrifoedd ethnig eraill. Mae lefelau uchel o ddiweithdra mewn cymunedau lleiafrifoedd ethnig yn Abertawe, er enghraifft. Mae’n ddyletswydd arnom i wneud cymaint â phosibl ar faterion economaidd a chymdeithasol i sicrhau na chânt eu hallgáu yn gymdeithasol ac yn economaidd.

Christine Chapman spoken in English p. 4

Christine Chapman siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 4

Do you agree that the Assembly is taking a lead in tackling poverty by encouraging a more joined-up approach to policy? Will you join me in welcoming the example of joined-up thinking that was shown by the recent large grant from Objective 1 awarded to Fernhill, one of the poorest communities in my constituency?

A gytunwch fod y Cynulliad yn arwain y ffordd wrth fynd i’r afael â thlodi drwy annog ymagwedd fwy cydgysylltiedig tuag at bolisi? A ymunwch â mi i groesawu’r enghraifft o feddwl cydgysylltiedig a ddangoswyd gan y grant mawr diweddar o Amcan 1 a ddyfarnwyd i Fernhill, un o’r cymunedau tlotaf yn fy etholaeth?

Edwina Hart spoken in English p. 4

Edwina Hart siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 4

I am delighted that we have had such a positive response from communities in the bidding process for Communities First. I welcome the work undertaken across constituencies to make these bids. I remind the communities that think that they may have viable bids, on the back of the agreed awards, to contact Norma Barry in the Communities First unit. It is essential that we use the money that is in this year’s budget line.

Yr wyf wrth fy modd ein bod wedi cael ymateb mor gadarnhaol gan gymunedau yn y broses o wneud cais ar gyfer Rhoi Cymunedau’n Gyntaf. Croesawaf y gwaith a wnaethpwyd ar draws yr etholaethau i wneud y ceisiadau hyn. Atgoffaf y cymunedau sy’n meddwl y gall fod ganddynt geisiadau dichonol, o ganlyniad i’r dyfarniadau cytûn, i gysylltu â Norma Barry yn yr uned Rhoi Cymunedau’n Gyntaf. Mae’n hanfodol ein bod yn defnyddio’r arian sydd yng ngyllideb y flwyddyn hon.

John Griffiths spoken in English p. 4

John Griffiths siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 4

In areas such as Alway in Newport East, the ability to borrow against council housing stock is vital to address poverty. Will you maintain pressure on the UK Government to relax those rules?

Mewn ardaloedd fel Alway yng Ngorllewin Casnewydd, mae’r gallu i fenthyca yn erbyn stoc tai cyngor yn hanfodol er mwyn mynd i’r afael â thlodi. A barhewch i roi pwysau ar Lywodraeth y DU i lacio’r rheolau hynny?

Dafydd Elis-Thomas The Presiding Officer spoken in English p. 4

Dafydd Elis-Thomas Y Llywydd siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 4

Order. The original question was on poverty in South Wales Central. However, as your question refers to urban poverty, I will allow it.

Trefn. Yr oedd y cwestiwn gwreiddiol yn ymwneud â thlodi yng Nghanol De Cymru. Fodd bynnag, gan fod eich cwestiwn chi yn cyfeirio at dlodi trefol, fe’i caniatâf.

Edwina Hart spoken in English p. 4

Edwina Hart siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 4

I am aware of the problems in your constituency, and that a sub-ward bid has been made to the Communities First programme. I hope I will be able to make a positive decision on that in the next week.

Yr wyf yn ymwybodol o’r problemau yn eich etholaeth, ac y gwnaethpwyd cais is-ward i’r rhaglen Rhoi Cymunedau’n Gyntaf. Gobeithio y gallaf wneud penderfyniad cadarnhaol ar hynny yn ystod yr wythnos nesaf.

I will continue to make the necessary representations to Her Majesty’s Treasury on the matter that you raised. There is cross-party support for changes in that area.

Byddaf yn parhau i wneud y sylwadau angenrheidiol i Drysorlys Ei Mawrhydi ar y mater a godwyd gennych. Mae cefnogaeth traws-bleidiol i newidiadau yn y maes hwnnw.

Atebolrwydd Democrataidd mewn Llywodraeth Leol

Democratic Accountability in Local Government

Q2 Richard Edwards spoken in English p. 5

C2 Richard Edwards siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 5

Can the Minister make a statement on democratic accountability in local government? (OAQ12997)

A wnaiff y Gweinidog ddatganiad ar atebolrwydd democrataidd oddi mewn i lywodraeth leol? (OAQ12997)

Edwina Hart spoken in English p. 5

Edwina Hart siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 5

Democratic accountability in local government is maintained, as it is with Assembly Members, through the ballot box.

Caiff atebolrwydd democrataidd o fewn llywodraeth leol ei gynnal, yn yr un modd â chydag Aelodau’r Cynulliad, drwy’r blwch pleidleisio.

The provisions of the Local Government Act 2000, together with 17 statutory instruments that were approved by the Assembly last summer, implement a fundamental reform of local government in Wales.

Mae darpariaethau Deddf Llywodraeth Leol 2000, ynghyd â’r 17 offeryn statudol a gymeradwywyd gan y Cynulliad yr haf diwethaf, yn rhoi diwygiad sylfaenol o lywodraeth leol yng Nghymru ar waith.

Richard Edwards spoken in English p. 5

Richard Edwards siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 5

Will you comment on the three county councillors in Pembrokeshire, elected on a Conservative Party ticket, who abandoned their electoral mandate and defected to the ruling independent group? That is a contradiction in terms—they are independent of principles, strategy and policy, certainly, but they are whipped so effectively that even Joseph Stalin would have been envious. It is not for nothing that Pembrokeshire County Hall is known locally as the Kremlin on the Cleddau.

A wnewch sylwadau ar y tri chynghorydd sir yn Sir Benfro, a etholwyd ar docyn y Blaid Geidwadol, a adawodd eu mandad etholiadol ac encilio i’r grŵp annibynnol sy’n llywodraethu? Mae hynny’n groesosodiad—maent yn annibynnol o ran egwyddorion, strategaeth a pholisi, yn bendant, ond cânt eu rheoli mor llym fel y byddai Joseph Stalin yn llawn edmygedd ohonynt. Mae rheswm pam bod Neuadd y Sir yn Sir Benfro’n cael ei galw’n Cremlin ar y Cleddau.

Edwina Hart spoken in English p. 5

Edwina Hart siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 5

I do not intend to comment on the internal machinations of the Tory Party in Pembrokeshire.

Nid wyf yn bwriadu rhoi sylwadau ar gynllwynion mewnol y Blaid Dorïaidd yn Sir Benfro.

William Graham spoken in English p. 5

William Graham siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 5

Do you agree that the real test of democratic accountability is the ballot box? Why are you, therefore, seeking to extend the local government term by a year?

A gytunwch mai’r prawf gwirioneddol ar atebolrwydd democrataidd yw’r blwch pleidleisio? Pam felly yr ydych yn ceisio ymestyn tymor llywodraeth leol flwyddyn?

Edwina Hart spoken in English p. 5

Edwina Hart siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 5

I know that you have raised this issue in the Local Government and Housing Committee. The proposal for an additional year was made for several reasons. I have only now given local government the opportunity to bed down the new structures. They will do that from April next year and would only have one year to do so if the elections were held at the time originally planned. I have also received submissions from returning officers about the difficulties caused by holding Assembly and local government elections at the same time. On a personal note, I also feel that it is important that we have a Welsh general election.

Gwn ichi godi’r mater hwn yn y Pwyllgor Llywodraeth Leol a Thai. Gwnaethpwyd y cynnig ar gyfer blwyddyn ychwanegol am sawl rheswm. Dim ond yn awr yr wyf wedi rhoi’r cyfle i lywodraeth leol sefydlu’r strwythurau newydd. Byddant yn gwneud hynny o fis Ebrill y flwyddyn nesaf a dim ond blwyddyn fyddai ganddynt i wneud hynny pe cynhaliwyd yr etholiadau ar yr adeg y bwriadwyd yn wreiddiol. Yr wyf hefyd wedi derbyn cyflwyniadau gan swyddogion canlyniadau ynghylch yr anawsterau a gododd oherwydd i etholiadau’r Cynulliad a llywodraeth leol gael eu cynnal ar yr un pryd. Ar nodyn personol, teimlaf hefyd ei bod yn bwysig ein bod yn cael etholiad cyffredinol yng Nghymru.

Michael German The Leader of the Liberal Democrat Group spoken in English p. 6

Michael German Arweinydd Grŵp y Democratiaid Rhyddfrydol siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 6

How many local authorities are considering using the fourth option?

Faint o awdurdodau lleol sy’n ystyried defnyddio’r pedwerydd opsiwn?

Edwina Hart spoken in English p. 6

Edwina Hart siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 6

I cannot tell you precisely how many, but there have been interesting public consultations on the fourth option and I am aware that a few authorities may well move towards the fourth option.

Ni allaf ddweud faint yn union wrthych, ond cafwyd ymgynghoriadau cyhoeddus diddorol ar y pedwerydd opsiwn ac yr wyf yn ymwybodol ei bod yn debygol y bydd ychydig o awdurdodau yn symud tuag at y pedwerydd opsiwn.

Janet Ryder spoken in English p. 6

Janet Ryder siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 6

Do you agree with your Labour colleague Chris Bryant MP that the present winner-takes-all system is unjust, undemocratic and dangerous? Furthermore, do you agree that the system itself deters people from using their democratic right to vote?

A gytunwch â’ch cyd-aelod Llafur Chris Bryant AS fod y system bresennol, sy’n golygu mai un enillydd sydd, yn annheg, yn annemocrataidd ac yn beryglus? Ymhellach, a gytunwch fod y system ei hun yn rhwystro pobl rhag defnyddio eu hawl ddemocrataidd i bleidleisio?

Edwina Hart spoken in English p. 6

Edwina Hart siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 6

I am not sure to what remarks by Chris Bryant you are referring. I have not read them and I am not sure in which context he made them.

Nid wyf yn siŵr at ba sylwadau gan Chris Bryant yr ydych yn cyfeirio. Nid wyf wedi eu darllen ac nid wyf yn siŵr ym mha gyd-destun y cawsant eu gwneud.

Newidiadau i Fformiwla Cyllido Llywodraeth Leol

Changes to the Local Government Funding Formula

Q3 Mick Bates spoken in English p. 6

C3 Mick Bates siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 6

What further proposals are there to change the local government funding formula for the next financial year? (OAQ12989)

Pa gynigion pellach sydd yn yr arfaeth i newid fformiwla cyllido llywodraeth leol ar gyfer y flwyddyn ariannol nesaf? (OAQ12989)

Edwina Hart spoken in English p. 6

Edwina Hart siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 6

The detailed changes to the formula for 2002-03 are contained in Annex 1.1 of the Partnership Council Paper 10(4). This report is available in the Library and on the internet.

Caiff y newidiadau manwl i’r fformiwla ar gyfer 2002-03 eu cynnwys yn Atodiad 1.1 Papur y Cyngor Partneriaeth 10(4). Mae’r adroddiad hwn ar gael yn y Llyfrgell ac ar y rhyngrwyd.

Mick Bates spoken in English p. 6

Mick Bates siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 6

I am sure that you are aware that people in rural areas, particularly Powys, feel that some of the changes have not taken rurality fully into account. For example, the formula for roads does not recognise the number of bridges or landslips. Will you undertake to reassess the formula so that these omissions can be rectified?

Yr wyf yn siŵr eich bod yn ymwybodol bod pobl mewn ardaloedd gwledig, yn enwedig Powys, yn teimlo nad yw rhai o’r newidiadau wedi ystyried ardaloedd gwledig. Er enghraifft, nid yw’r fformiwla ar gyfer ffyrdd yn cydnabod nifer y pontydd na thirlithradau. A wnewch chi addo ailasesu’r fformiwla fel y gellir unioni hyn?

Edwina Hart spoken in English p. 7

Edwina Hart siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 7

I am considering changes to the formula that are presented to me by officials from my department and the Welsh Local Government Association. I discussed bridges with Dafydd Wigley in Gwynedd last Friday and I have also discussed this matter with Sue Essex. I am not considering it in terms of the funding formula but rather in terms of assessing the damage to bridges throughout Wales and preparing some kind of package.

Yr wyf yn ystyried newidiadau i’r fformiwla a gyflwynir imi gan swyddogion o’m hadran a Chymdeithas Llywodraeth Leol Cymru. Trafodais bontydd gyda Dafydd Wigley yng Ngwynedd ddydd Gwener diwethaf a thrafodais hyn hefyd gyda Sue Essex. Nid wyf yn ystyried hyn yn nhermau’r fformiwla cyllido ond yn hytrach yn nhermau asesu’r difrod i bontydd ledled Cymru a pharatoi rhyw fath o becyn.

Phil Williams spoken in English p. 7

Phil Williams siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 7

In reviewing the new formula, will you re-examine the way in which the regression analysis was carried out, especially the lack of weighting of the data according to authority size, and the questionable use of significance tests to reject certain sparsity measures? These are possible flaws in what was, overall, a fine piece of work. Will you encourage public debate so that the mathematical formulae that determine the allocation of £3 billion become a matter of public debate?

Wrth adolygu’r fformiwla newydd, a wnewch chi ailarchwilio’r ffordd y cynhaliwyd y dadansoddiad atchweliad, yn enwedig diffyg pwysoli’r data yn unol â maint yr awdurdod, a’r defnydd dadleuol o brofion sylwedd i wrthod mesurau teneurwydd penodol? Camgymeriadau posibl yw y rhain yn yr hyn a oedd yn gyffredinol yn waith da. A wnewch chi annog dadl gyhoeddus fel bod y fformiwlâu mathemategol sy’n pennu dyraniad y £3 biliwn yn dod yn destun dadl gyhoeddus?

Edwina Hart spoken in English p. 7

Edwina Hart siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 7

Like you, I am broadly happy with the formula. I acknowledge that certain issues will have to be tackled over the next couple of years. I would be happy to take up with my statisticians the points that you raised.

Fel chithau, yr wyf innau’n weddol hapus â’r fformiwla. Cydnabyddaf y bydd angen mynd i’r afael â materion penodol dros y ddwy flynedd nesaf. Byddwn yn fodlon trafod y pwyntiau a godwyd gennych gyda’m hystadegwyr.

Glyn Davies spoken in English p. 7

Glyn Davies siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 7

As Mick Bates rightly said, the rurality changes make a big difference. Do you accept that, in Powys, the decrease in revenue support grant, arising from last year’s changes, is greater than the amount of money that you have given to compensate for the impact of foot and mouth disease?

Fel y dywedodd Mick Bates, a hynny’n gywir, mae’r newidiadau i ardaloedd gwledig yn gwneud gwahaniaeth mawr. A dderbyniwch, ym Mhowys, fod y cynnydd mewn grant cymorth refeniw, sy’n deillio o newidiadau’r llynedd, yn fwy na’r swm o arian a roddwyd gennych i ddigolledu effaith clwy’r traed a’r genau?

Edwina Hart spoken in English p. 7

Edwina Hart siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 7

The foot and mouth disease package has been warmly welcomed in Powys, particularly the further distribution of additional funds. I do not accept your analysis of the lack of rurality in the local government formula.

Cafwyd croeso cynnes i becyn clwy’r traed a’r genau ym Mhowys, yn enwedig y dosbarthiad pellach o arian ychwanegol. Ni dderbyniaf eich dadansoddiad o ddiffyg ystyriaeth i ardaloedd gwledig yn y fformiwla llywodraeth leol.

Cyflwyno Treth Fusnes Atodol

Introduction of a Supplementary Business Rate

Q4 Alun Cairns spoken in English p. 7

C4 Alun Cairns siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 7

Will the Minister make a statement on any plans she has to introduce a supplementary business rate? (OAQ13040)

A wnaiff y Gweinidog ddatganiad ar ei chynlluniau i gyflwyno treth fusnes atodol? (OAQ13040)

Edwina Hart spoken in English p. 8

Edwina Hart siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 8

I am considering carefully how we might build stronger and more productive relationships between local government and the business community in Wales. I will consult fully with local government and business if any firm proposals emerge. In the meantime, I am working closely with Whitehall colleagues to secure legislation that gives the Assembly maximum flexibility to develop a solution that is sensitive to the needs and circumstances of Wales. I have also had interesting discussions with CBI Wales and other business organisations on this issue.

Yr wyf yn ystyried yn ofalus sut y gallwn adeiladu cysylltiadau cryfach a mwy cynhyrchiol rhwng llywodraeth leol a’r gymuned fusnes yng Nghymru. Byddaf yn ymgynghori’n llawn â llywodraeth leol a busnesau os caiff unrhyw gynigion cadarn eu gwneud. Yn y cyfamser, yr wyf yn cydweithio’n agos â chyd-Aelodau yn Whitehall i sicrhau deddfwriaeth sy’n rhoi’r hyblygrwydd gorau posibl i’r Cynulliad ddatblygu ateb sy’n sensitif i anghenion ac amgylchiadau Cymru. Cefais hefyd drafodaethau diddorol gyda CBI Cymru a sefydliadau busnes eraill ar y mater hwn.

Alun Cairns spoken in English p. 8

Alun Cairns siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 8

Is the Minister aware that manufacturing industry in Wales is in deep recession? Does she accept that an additional tax will be a burden to that industry? If she introduces an additional tax, will she accept responsibility for the resulting job losses?

A yw’r Gweinidog yn ymwybodol bod y diwydiant gweithgynhyrchu yng Nghymru mewn dirwasgiad difrifol? A yw’n derbyn y byddai treth ychwanegol yn fwrn ar y diwydiant hwnnw? Os cyflwyna dreth ychwanegol, a fydd yn derbyn cyfrifoldeb dros y swyddi a gaiff eu colli o ganlyniad i hynny?

Edwina Hart spoken in English p. 8

Edwina Hart siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 8

I have an open mind on this issue, as I am consulting on it. I take cognisance of the views of local government and businesses. I do not accept your analysis of a recession, as that is not what the Governor of the Bank of England told me yesterday.

Mae gennyf feddwl agored ar y mater hwn, gan fy mod yn ymgynghori arno. Yr wyf yn cymryd sylw o farn llywodraeth leol a busnesau. Ni dderbyniaf eich dadansoddiad o ddirwasgiad, gan nad dyna a ddywedodd Llywodraethwr Banc Lloegr wrthyf ddoe.

Janet Davies spoken in English p. 8

Janet Davies siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 8

There seems to be a great deal of dissatisfaction among businesses, and genuine concern among some local authorities about the effects of the business rate. As the business rate has not been reviewed since the bygone days of Mrs Thatcher, will you work with your Westminster colleagues to conduct a complete review of how the business rate works?

Ymddengys bod llawer o anfodlonrwydd ymysg busnesau, a phryder gwirioneddol ymysg rhai awdurdodau lleol ynghylch effeithiau’r dreth fusnes. Oherwydd nad adolygwyd y dreth fusnes ers hen ddyddiau Mrs Thatcher, a gydweithiwch â’ch cyd-aelodau yn San Steffan i gynnal adolygiad cyflawn o sut y mae’r dreth fusnes yn gweithio?

Edwina Hart spoken in English p. 8

Edwina Hart siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 8

I will take cognisance of what you said and respond to you more formally.

Byddaf yn cymryd sylw o’r hyn a ddywedasoch ac yn ymateb ichi yn fwy ffurfiol.

Cyfle Cyfartal yng Nghymru

Equality of Opportunity in Wales

Q5 Karen Sinclair spoken in English p. 9

C5 Karen Sinclair siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 9

What measures is the Minister taking to ensure equality of opportunity in Wales? (OAQ13036)

Pa gamau y mae’r Gweinidog yn eu cymryd i sicrhau cyfle cyfartal yng Nghymru? (OAQ13036)

I also take this opportunity to wish the Presiding Officer a happy birthday.

Hoffwn fanteisio ar y cyfle hwn hefyd i ddymuno pen-blwydd hapus i’r Llywydd.

Edwina Hart spoken in English p. 9

Edwina Hart siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 9

In my role as Minister for Local Government and Communities, I am promoting equality of opportunity by ensuring that it is integrated into key programmes and initiatives such as Communities First, policy agreements and community strategies. This will be underpinned by the creation of an equalities unit within the Welsh Local Government Association.

Fel rhan o’m rôl fel Gweinidog dros Lywodraeth Leol a Chymunedau, yr wyf yn hybu cyfle cyfartal drwy sicrhau y caiff ei integreiddio i raglenni allweddol a mentrau fel Rhoi Cymunedau’n Gyntaf, cytundebau polisi a strategaethau cymunedol. Caiff hyn ei ategu drwy greu uned cydraddoldeb o fewn Cymdeithas Llywodraeth Leol Cymru.

Karen Sinclair spoken in English p. 9

Karen Sinclair siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 9

Some communities, such as the deaf and hard of hearing, already experience severe discrimination and exclusion because their disability is invisible. Those individuals may lack the confidence or self-esteem to get involved in their community. How will the Communities First programme remove this barrier to full and participative community regeneration if non-geographical communities of interest are not included in the programme?

Mae rhai cymunedau, fel y byddar a’r rhai â nam ar eu clyw, eisoes yn dioddef gwahaniaethu ac allgáu oherwydd bod eu hanabledd yn anweledig. Efallai nad oes gan yr unigolion hynny’r hyder na’r hunan-fri i gymryd rhan yn eu cymuned. Sut y bydd y rhaglen Rhoi Cymunedau’n Gyntaf yn dileu’r rhwystr hwn i adfywiad cymunedol llawn a chyfranogol os na chaiff cymunedau buddiannau annaearyddol eu cynnwys yn y rhaglen?

Edwina Hart spoken in English p. 9

Edwina Hart siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 9

I have agreed to consider communities of interest bids. I have such a bid for a black and ethnic minority community that spans the whole of Cardiff, irrespective of people’s wards. I have also tried to encourage, via the voluntary sector and others, communities of interest to consider this bidding process. This is a priority for me to consider in the future, as it is important.

Yr wyf wedi cytuno i ystyried ceisiadau gan gymunedau buddiannau. Mae gennyf gais o’r fath ar gyfer cymuned lleiafrifoedd du ac ethnig sy’n cwmpasu Caerdydd gyfan, heb ystyried wardiau pobl. Yr wyf hefyd wedi ceisio annog, drwy’r sector gwirfoddol ac eraill, gymunedau buddiannau i ystyried y broses gwneud cais hon. Mae hyn yn flaenoriaeth y byddaf yn ei hystyried yn y dyfodol, gan ei bod yn bwysig.

Helen Mary Jones spoken in English p. 9

Helen Mary Jones siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 9

What steps are you taking to ensure that all Assembly and Government of Wales staff are aware of their responsibilities to promote good relations with the Muslim communities of Wales at this difficult time?

Pa gamau a gymerwch i sicrhau bod holl staff y Cynulliad a Llywodraeth Cymru yn ymwybodol o’u cyfrifoldebau i annog cysylltiadau da â chymunedau Moslemaidd Cymru yn ystod y cyfnod anodd hwn?

Edwina Hart spoken in English p. 9

Edwina Hart siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 9

Staffing matters are the Permanent Secretary’s responsibility. However, I will ensure that he issues instructions to staff about the sensitive way that we need to deal with issues in these difficult times since 11 September.

Cyfrifoldeb yr Ysgrifennydd Parhaol yw materion staffio. Fodd bynnag, byddaf yn sicrhau ei fod yn rhoi cyfarwyddiadau i’r staff ynghylch y modd sensitif y mae angen inni fynd i’r afael â materion yn ystod y cyfnod anodd hwn ers 11 Medi.

David Melding spoken in English p. 10

David Melding siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 10

Do you share my disappointment that many Assembly Members involved in public appointments have not yet undertaken even the most rudimentary equal opportunities training?

A ydych yn rhannu fy siom nad yw llawer o Aelodau’r Cynulliad sy’n ymwneud â phenodiadau cyhoeddus wedi cael yr hyfforddiant cyfle cyfartal mwyaf elfennol eto?

Edwina Hart spoken in English p. 10

Edwina Hart siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 10

Yes, I do. David, you have always taken a strong line on this in the Committee on Equality of Opportunity, and I appreciate your support greatly. I urge Members to try to receive this training, as it is essential.

Ydwyf. David, yr ydych wedi gwneud safiad cryf ar hyn bob amser yn y Pwyllgor Cyfle Cyfartal, a gwerthfawrogaf eich cymorth yn fawr. Anogaf yr Aelodau i geisio derbyn yr hyfforddiant hwn, gan ei fod yn hanfodol.

Cyfarfod â Chyngor Sir Penfro

Meeting with Pembrokeshire County Council

Q6 Richard Edwards spoken in English p. 10

C6 Richard Edwards siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 10

Can the Minister make a statement on her recent meeting with Pembrokeshire County Council on 2 October 2001? (OAQ12981)

A wnaiff y Gweinidog ddatganiad ar ei chyfarfod diweddar â Chyngor Sir Penfro ar 2 Hydref 2001? (OAQ12981)

Edwina Hart spoken in English p. 10

Edwina Hart siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 10

I had a wide-ranging and positive meeting with members and officers of the authority.

Cefais gyfarfod eang ei gwmpas a chadarnhaol gydag aelodau a swyddogion yr awdurdod.

Richard Edwards spoken in English p. 10

Richard Edwards siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 10

In the course of your wide-ranging meeting, did you inquire why Pembrokeshire County Council, with one of the smallest population coverages in Wales, pays its chief executive officer the largest salary in Welsh local government?

Yn ystod eich cyfarfod eang ei gwmpas, a wnaethoch holi pam bod Cyngor Sir Penfro, a chanddo un o’r poblogaethau lleiaf yng Nghymru, yn talu’r cyflog mwyaf o fewn llywodraeth leol yng Nghymru i’w brif swyddog gweithredol?

Edwina Hart spoken in English p. 10

Edwina Hart siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 10

The terms and conditions for local government officers are matters for negotiation between trade unions and the local authority.

Mae’r termau a’r amodau ar gyfer swyddogion llywodraeth leol yn faterion i’w negodi rhwng undebau llafur a’r awdurdod lleol.

Nick Bourne The Leader of the Welsh Conservatives spoken in English p. 10

Nick Bourne Arweinydd Ceidwadwyr Cymru siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 10

When you had your wide-ranging, pleasant discussions, did you discuss the level of council tax settlement needed in Pembrokeshire next year to keep the small rural schools in north Pembrokeshire open? Those schools have to close because of the administration’s lack of a rural schools policy.

Pan gawsoch eich trafodaethau eang eu cwmpas a dymunol, a wnaethoch drafod lefel setliad y dreth gyngor sydd ei hangen yn Sir Benfro y flwyddyn nesaf i gadw’r ysgolion bach gwledig yng ngogledd Sir Benfro ar agor? Mae’n rhaid i’r ysgolion hynny gau oherwydd diffyg polisi ysgolion gwledig y weinyddiaeth.

Edwina Hart spoken in English p. 10

Edwina Hart siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 10

I discussed several general issues with Pembrokeshire council concerning the financial arrangements for local government. I will not give details of my discussions with local authorities, as they are confidential. However, I will take up your point on moneys in that area with the local authority.

Trafodais lawer o faterion cyffredinol gyda chyngor Sir Penfro yn ymwneud â’r trefniadau ariannol ar gyfer llywodraeth leol. Ni roddaf unrhyw fanylion o’m trafodaethau ag awdurdodau lleol, gan eu bod yn gyfrinachol. Fodd bynnag, byddaf yn codi eich pwynt ar arian yn y maes hwnnw gyda’r awdurdod lleol.

Cynog Dafis siaradwyd yn Gymraeg t. 11

Cynog Dafis spoken in Welsh p. 11

Mewn perthynas â bwriad Cyngor Sir Penfro i gau dwy ysgol gynradd, a ydych wedi hysbysu’r cyngor y bydd y Gweinidog dros Addysg a Dysgu Gydol Oes, Jane Davidson, yn gwneud datganiad o fewn y mis ar bolisi Llywodraeth Cymru ar warchod ysgolion gwledig? A ydych yn cytuno y byddai’n amhriodol i’r cyngor benderfynu heddiw i gau’r ddwy ysgol cyn i’r polisi cenedlaethol ar y mater gael ei gyhoeddi?

In relation to Pembrokeshire County Council’s intention to close two primary schools, have you informed the council that the Minister for Education and Lifelong Learning, Jane Davidson, will make a statement within the next month on the Government of Wales’s policy on safeguarding rural schools? Do you agree that it would be inappropriate for the council to decide today to close the two schools before the national policy on the issue is published?

Edwina Hart spoken in English p. 11

Edwina Hart siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 11

Pembrokeshire County Council has a mandate from the people of Pembrokeshire to address issues such as school closures. The Assembly’s policy in the area should be of interest to all local authorities, and I hope that they will take it into account when making decisions.

Mae gan Gyngor Sir Penfro fandad gan bobl Sir Benfro i fynd i’r afael â materion fel cau ysgolion. Dylai polisi’r Cynulliad yn y maes hwn fod o ddiddordeb i bob awdurdod lleol, a gobeithio y byddant yn ystyried hyn wrth wneud penderfyniadau.

Monitro Ymgynghoriadau gan Gynghorau

Monitoring of Council Consultations

Q7 William Graham spoken in English p. 11

C7 William Graham siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 11

Will the Minister make a statement concerning the monitoring of council consultations on the structure of local government? (OAQ12985) [R]

A wnaiff y Gweinidog ddatganiad ynghylch monitro ymgynghoriadau gan gynghorau ar strwythur llywodraeth leol? (OAQ12985) [R]

Edwina Hart spoken in English p. 11

Edwina Hart siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 11

Local authorities have a statutory duty to consult with their communities on the four options available for the new political management structures. To support local authorities in this important task, I have published guidance on consultation in line with the statutory provisions. Following comments made by William and other members of the Local Government and Housing Committee, I will take into account the conduct of local authorities’ consultations when I receive their proposals for the new political management structures in January.

Mae gan awdurdodau lleol ddyletswydd statudol i ymgynghori â’u cymunedau ar y pedwar opsiwn sydd ar gael ar gyfer strwythurau rheoli gwleidyddol newydd. Er mwyn cynorthwyo’r awdurdodau lleol â’r dasg bwysig hon, yr wyf wedi cyhoeddi canllaw ar ymgynghori yn unol â’r darpariaethau statudol. Yn dilyn sylwadau a wnaethpwyd gan William ac aelodau eraill y Pwyllgor Llywodraeth Leol a Thai, byddaf yn ystyried y modd y cynhelir ymgynghoriadau ag awdurdodau lleol pan dderbyniaf eu cynigion ar gyfer y strwythurau rheoli gwleidyddol newydd ym mis Ionawr.

William Graham spoken in English p. 11

William Graham siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 11

Will you give detailed consideration to the option statements being issued by councils? Some statements are particularly misleading. Gwynedd Council’s statement is one example, although the typographical errors contained in it can be excused. People must be consulted with the correct options. I am sure that the Minister shares my concern. What action will she now take?

A roddwch ystyriaeth fanwl i’r datganiadau opsiwn a gyhoeddir gan gynghorau? Mae rhai datganiadau yn arbennig o gamarweiniol. Mae datganiad Cyngor Gwynedd yn un enghraifft, er y gellid esgusodi’r gwallau teipio sydd ynddo. Rhaid ymgynghori â phobl ar yr opsiynau cywir. Yr wyf yn siŵr bod y Gweinidog yn rhannu fy mhryder. Pa gamau y bydd yn eu cymryd yn awr?

Edwina Hart spoken in English p. 12

Edwina Hart siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 12

In light of your question, I will instruct my officials to collate all the information on the documentation issued by local government on the consultations. I will then decide whether it is suitable in terms of consultation.

Yng ngoleuni eich cwestiwn, byddaf yn rhoi cyfarwyddiadau i’m swyddogion ddosbarthu’r holl wybodaeth ar y dogfennau a gyhoeddwyd gan lywodraeth leol ar yr ymgynghoriadau. Wedyn byddaf yn penderfynu a yw’n addas o ran yr ymgynghoriad.

Cytundebau Gwerth Gorau Awdurdodau Lleol

Local Authorities’ Best Value Contracts

C8 Owen John Thomas siaradwyd yn Gymraeg t. 12

Q8 Owen John Thomas spoken in Welsh p. 12

Pa gamau y bydd y Gweinidog yn eu cymryd i sicrhau bod cytundebau Gwerth Gorau awdurdodau lleol yn cymryd i ystyriaeth eu heffaith ar yr economi leol? (OAQ12982)

What action will the Minister take to ensure that local authorities’ Best Value contracts take into consideration their effect on the local economy? (OAQ12982)

Edwina Hart spoken in English p. 12

Edwina Hart siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 12

This is a wide issue, over and above Best Value. Best Value already provides local authorities with greater scope to include local considerations in their decisions when awarding contracts for services.

Mae hwn yn fater eang, sy’n cwmpasu llawer mwy na Gwerth Gorau. Mae Gwerth Gorau eisoes yn rhoi cyfle mwy i awdurdodau lleol gynnwys ystyriaethau lleol yn eu penderfyniadau wrth ddyfarnu contractau ar gyfer gwasanaethau.

Local authorities will have their own procurement framework, which must comply with European Union procurement regulations. This means that, if the contract is above a certain financial level, Best Value authorities cannot discriminate in favour of local suppliers. However, if the contracts are below that level, authorities can establish a shortlist of local suppliers to participate in the local competitive process. In doing this, authorities have a duty to ensure value for money.

Bydd gan yr awdurdodau lleol eu fframwaith caffael eu hunain, y mae’n rhaid iddo gydymffurfio â rheoliadau caffael yr Undeb Ewropeaidd. Mae hyn yn golygu, os bydd y contract yn uwch na lefel ariannol benodol, na all awdurdodau Gwerth Gorau wahaniaethu o blaid cyflenwyr lleol. Fodd bynnag, os yw’r contractau yn is na’r lefel honno, gall yr awdurdodau lunio rhestr fer o gyflenwyr lleol i gymryd rhan yn y broses gystadleuol leol. Drwy wneud hyn, mae gan yr awdurdodau ddyletswydd i sicrhau gwerth am arian.

The Committee on Equality of Opportunity has approved the launch of a new voluntary code of practice, which explains Assembly policy on local procurement. Suppliers will be encouraged to adopt a similar approach. This includes using Welsh products and raw materials, keeping money in local economies and significantly reducing the cost of transportation and its effect on the environment. The Assembly intends to persuade other organisations in Wales of the benefits of this approach. That is a significant step forward.

Mae’r Pwyllgor Cyfle Cyfartal wedi cymeradwyo lansio cod ymarfer gwirfoddol newydd, sy’n esbonio polisi’r Cynulliad ar gaffael yn lleol. Anogir cyflenwyr i fabwysiadu ymagwedd debyg. Mae hyn yn cynnwys defnyddio cynnyrch Cymreig a deunyddiau craidd, cadw arian mewn economïau lleol a lleihau costau cludo a’i effaith ar yr amgylchedd yn sylweddol. Mae’r Cynulliad yn bwriadu darbwyllo sefydliadau eraill yng Nghymru ynghylch manteision yr ymagwedd hon. Mae hynny’n gam sylweddol ymlaen.

Owen John Thomas siaradwyd yn Gymraeg t. 13

Owen John Thomas spoken in Welsh p. 13

Daw manteision i economïau lleol yn sgîl defnyddio cwmnïau lleol. Yr oeddwn yn falch o glywed eich ateb, gan mai dyna yr oeddwn eisiau ichi ei wneud.

There are benefits for local economies in using local companies. I was pleased to hear your answer, as that is what I wanted you to do.

Edwina Hart spoken in English p. 13

Edwina Hart siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 13

It is in tune with the issues that have been raised in the Local Government and Housing Committee and in the Committee on Equality of Opportunity.

Mae hyn yn gydnaws â’r materion a godwyd yn y Pwyllgor Llywodraeth Leol a Thai ac yn y Pwyllgor Cyfle Cyfartal.

Peter Rogers spoken in English p. 13

Peter Rogers siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 13

The report of the joint review of social services in the Isle of Anglesey County Council, published in October 2000, stated that the council’s policy of giving preference to council-run care homes at the expense of care homes in the independent sector is difficult to justify in terms of Best Value. With independent care homes facing closure because of the inability to ensure a fair fee structure, will Best Value put an end to Anglesey council’s restrictive practices?

Yr oedd adroddiad yr adolygaid ar y cyd o wasanaethau cymdeithasol Cyngor Sir Ynys Môn, a gyhoeddwyd ym mis Hydref 2000, yn nodi ei bod yn anodd cyfiawnhau polisi’r cyngor o roi blaenoriaeth i gartrefi gofal a gaiff eu rhedeg gan y cyngor ar draul cartrefi gofal yn y sector annibynnol o ran Gwerth Gorau. Gyda chartrefi gofal annibynnol yn wynebu’r posibilrwydd o gael eu cau oherwydd yr anallu i sicrhau strwythur ffioedd teg, a fydd Gwerth Gorau yn rhoi pen ar arferion cyfyngedig cyngor Ynys Môn?

Edwina Hart spoken in English p. 13

Edwina Hart siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 13

I will not comment in detail on the report, as I do not know the context in which the comments were made and I have not discussed it with the Minister for Health and Social Services, Jane Hutt. However, we are considering how to improve the Best Value regime across Wales. A document has been sent to the Partnership Council. We want to make the regime more focused on the outcomes that are required in terms of the benefits for ordinary citizens. I hope that that will lead to improvements.

Ni wnaf sylwadau manwl ar yr adroddiad, gan na wn ym mha gyd-destun y gwnaethpwyd y sylwadau a chan nad wyf wedi’i drafod â’r Gweinidog dros Iechyd a Gwasanaethau Cymdeithasol, Jane Hutt. Fodd bynnag, yr ydym yn ystyried sut i wella’r system Gwerth Gorau ledled Cymru. Anfonwyd dogfen i’r Cyngor Partneriaeth. Yr ydym am i’r system ganolbwyntio mwy ar y canlyniadau sydd eu hangen o ran y buddiannau ar gyfer dinasyddion cyffredin. Gobeithio y bydd hynny’n arwain at welliannau.

Cwestiynau i’r Gweinidog dros yr Amgylchedd

Questions to the Minister for Environment

Defnydd o Safleoedd Tir Glas ar Gyfer Datblygu Tai Newydd

Use of Greenfield Sites for New Housing Development

Q1 Jonathan Morgan spoken in English p. 13

C1 Jonathan Morgan siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 13

Will the Minister make a statement on the use of greenfield sites for new housing development? (OAQ12960)

A wnaiff y Gweinidog ddatganiad ar y defnydd o safleoedd tir glas ar gyfer datblygu tai newydd? (OAQ12960)

Sue Essex The Minister for Environment spoken in English p. 13

Sue Essex Y Gweinidog dros yr Amgylchedd siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 13

The national planning policy on the use of greenfield sites for new housing is stated in Chapter 9 of ‘Planning Guidance (Wales): Planning Policy (First Revision)’. The guidance emphasises the need for sustainable development and makes clear that brownfield sites should, wherever possible, be developed in preference to greenfield sites. This policy is maintained, and a sequential approach to housing site selection introduced, in the draft document ‘Planning Policy Wales’.

Caiff y polisi cynllunio cenedlaethol ar y defnydd o safleoedd tir glas ar gyfer datblygu tai newydd ei nodi ym Mhennod 9 ‘Canllaw Cynllunio (Cymru): Polisi Cynllunio (Adolygiad Cyntaf)’. Mae’r canllaw yn pwysleisio’r angen am ddatblygu cynaliadwy ac mae’n egluro y dylid datblygu safleoedd tir llwyd yn hytrach na safleoedd tir glas lle bynnag y bo’n bosibl. Caiff y polisi hwn ei gynnal, a chyflwynir ymagwedd ddilyniannol tuag at ddethol safleoedd ar gyfer tai, yn y ddogfen ddrafft ‘Polisi Cynllunio Cymru’.

Jonathan Morgan spoken in English p. 14

Jonathan Morgan siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 14

You will be aware of the long-running battle to save the Twmpath Fields in our home village of Rhiwbina. Is it not unacceptable that new houses can be built on what is not only a greenfield site, but one of significant historical importance?

Byddwch yn ymwybodol o’r frwydr faith i ddiogelu Meysydd Twmpath yn Rhiwbeina, ein pentref ni. Onid yw’n annerbyniol y gellid adeiladu tai newydd ar yr hyn sydd nid yn unig yn safle tir glas, ond sydd hefyd yn safle o bwys hanesyddol mawr?

Sue Essex spoken in English p. 14

Sue Essex siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 14

It is difficult for me to comment on Twmpath Fields because, as you know, I have supported the residents in their fight. On general planning policy, in previous planning guidance the presumption has been against using greenfield sites until a sequential approach has been adopted. That will be strengthened in the revised guidance. Local authorities will be asked to identify brownfield sites that could be developed, and ensure that they are given preference over greenfield sites. Ultimately, it is up to local authorities to incorporate that into their unitary development plans.

Mae’n anodd imi wneud sylwadau ar Feysydd Twmpath oherwydd, fel y gwyddoch, yr wyf wedi cynorthwyo’r trigolion yn eu brwydr. O ran polisi cynllunio cyffredinol, mewn canllawiau cynllunio blaenorol bu’r rhagdybiad yn erbyn defnyddio safleoedd tir glas nes y bydd ymagwedd ddilyniannol wedi’i mabwysiadu. Caiff hynny ei gryfhau yn y canllaw diwygiedig. Gofynnir i’r awdurdodau lleol nodi safleoedd tir llwyd y gellid eu datblygu, a sicrhau y cânt flaenoriaeth dros safleoedd tir glas. Yn y pen draw, cyfrifoldeb yr awdurdodau lleol yw ymgorffori hynny yn eu cynlluniau datblygu unedol.

Janet Davies spoken in English p. 14

Janet Davies siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 14

We all recognise the importance of using brownfield sites for development wherever possible, but in light of the Children’s Commissioner for Wales’s report on two schools that are situated on contaminated sites, rather than greenfield sites, will you insist that health impact studies be completed on possible developments before planning permission is granted for such proposals?

Mae pawb ohonom yn cydnabod pwysigrwydd defnyddio safleoedd tir llwyd ar gyfer datblygu lle bynnag y bo’n bosibl, ond o ystyried adroddiad Comisiynydd Plant Cymru ar ddwy ysgol a leolir ar safleoedd halogedig, yn hytrach na safleoedd tir glas, a fyddwch yn mynnu bod astudiaethau o’r effaith ar iechyd yn cael eu cwblhau ar ddatblygiadau posibl cyn y rhoddir caniatâd ar gyfer cynigion o’r fath?

Sue Essex spoken in English p. 14

Sue Essex siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 14

I agree with your comments on brownfield sites; we cannot consider them as a blanket group, and say that they are all suitable for immediate development. However, in terms of individual sites with a history of contamination, specific work has to be undertaken, with guidance from the Environment Agency, on how that land can be used. Without committing myself on the health impact assessments, because those discussions are ongoing with Jane Hutt and local authorities, it is fair to say that we are learning more about the relationship between environmental aspects and health. We are not currently in a position to instruct local authorities on particular schemes, but that work is ongoing.

Cytunaf â’ch sylwadau ar safleoedd tir llwyd; ni allwn eu hystyried fel grŵp cyffredinol, a dweud eu bod i gyd yn addas i gael eu datblygu ar unwaith. Fodd bynnag, o ran safleoedd unigol gyda hanes o halogiad, rhaid gwneud gwaith penodol, gyda chyfarwyddyd gan Asiantaeth yr Amgylchedd, ar sut y gellid defnyddio’r tir hwnnw. Heb ymrwymo fy hun i’r asesiadau o’r effaith ar iechyd, oherwydd mae’r trafodaethau hynny’n cael eu cynnal gyda Jane Hutt a’r awdurdodau lleol, mae’n deg dweud ein bod yn dysgu mwy am y cysylltiad rhwng agweddau amgylcheddol ac iechyd. Nid ydym mewn sefyllfa ar hyn o bryd i roi cyfarwyddiadau i’r awdurdodau lleol ar gynlluniau penodol, ond mae’r gwaith hwnnw yn parhau.

John Griffiths spoken in English p. 15

John Griffiths siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 15

Do you agree that one aspect of the quality of life in Wales that we are lucky to have, is that in urban areas, the countryside is never far away? People in Newport East feel strongly that the green areas on the outskirts of the inner urban areas must be protected. Will you do all that you can to ensure that?

A gytunwch mai un agwedd ar ansawdd bywyd yng Nghymru yr ydym yn ffodus i’w gael, yw nad yw cefn gwlad byth yn bell i ffwrdd pan fyddwch mewn ardaloedd trefol? Mae pobl yng Ngorllewin Casnewydd yn teimlo’n gryf bod yn rhaid diogelu’r ardaloedd glas ar gyrion yr ardaloedd trefol mewnol. A wnewch bopeth o fewn eich gallu i sicrhau hynny?

Sue Essex spoken in English p. 15

Sue Essex siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 15

In the revised planning guidance, I deliberately inserted a new phrase about the importance of green belts or green wedges. These green areas may not form a circular shape around a community and may be in what is called ‘wedge’, ‘ridge’ or ‘valley’ form. Not everybody agrees with me on this issue; the response to the consultation was split 50:50. However, I have no doubt, from discussions with people on the ground, that there are certain stretches of land that are dear to them. Often, they are local areas that separate communities and give them an identity. In the draft guidance, I have asked that local authorities seek to identify those areas in consultation with their community and establish a degree of permanence, which is what people want. There is a difference of opinion between professionals, politicians and the public on this. However, I know this from years of experience, and I think that we have to respond to the public on this issue.

Yn y canllaw cynllunio diwygiedig, rhoddais gymal newydd ynddo yn fwriadol ynghylch pwysigrwydd lleiniau gwyrdd. Efallai nad yw’r ardaloedd gwyrdd hyn yn ffurfio siâp crwn o amgylch cymuned ac efallai eu bod ar ffurf yr hyn a elwid yn ‘ddarn’, ‘cribyn’ neu ‘ddyffryn’. Nid yw pawb yn cytuno â mi ar y mater hwn; yr oedd yr ymateb i’r ymgynghoriad wedi’i rannu 50:50. Fodd bynnag, nid oes gennyf unrhyw amheuaeth, o’r trafodaethau gyda phobl ar lawr gwlad, bod rhannau penodol o dir yn agos at eu calonnau. Yn aml, maent yn ardaloedd lleol sy’n gwahanu cymunedau ac yn rhoi hunaniaeth iddynt. Yn y canllawiau drafft, gofynnais i’r awdurdodau lleol geisio nodi’r ardaloedd hynny wrth ymgynghori â’u cymuned a sefydlu rhywfaint o barhauster, sef yr hyn y mae pobl ei eisiau. Mae gwahaniaeth barn ymysg pobl broffesiynol, gwleidyddion a’r cyhoedd ar hyn. Fodd bynnag, gwn fod hyn yn wir gan fod gennyf flynyddoedd o brofiad, a chredaf fod rhaid inni ymateb i’r cyhoedd ar y mater hwn.

Ailddrafftio Canllawiau Cynllunio (Strategaeth Wastraff)

Redrafting of Planning Guidelines (Waste Strategy)

Q2 Janet Ryder spoken in English p. 15

C2 Janet Ryder siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 15

What consideration has been given to the waste strategy in the redrafting of the planning guidelines? (OAQ13009)

Pa ystyriaethau sydd wedi’u rhoi i’r strategaeth wastraff wrth ailddrafftio’r canllawiau cynllunio? (OAQ13009)

Sue Essex spoken in English p. 16

Sue Essex siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 16

The revisions to planning policy for waste in the draft version of ‘Planning Policy Wales’ and the draft of the technical advice note have been prepared inclusively, in parallel and to be consistent with the waste strategy for 2000 and the consultation document, ‘Managing Waste Sustainably’. The waste technical advice note will provide the planning framework to help implement the waste strategy by establishing voluntary joint regional arrangements of local authorities to prepare regional waste plans. It will take several months to establish those regional arrangements, following the issue of the TAN. Therefore, the regional waste plans will not be produced until after the publication of the waste strategy.

Paratowyd y diwygiadau i’r polisi cynllunio ar gyfer gwastraff yn y fersiwn ddrafft o ‘Bolisi Cynllunio Cymru’ a’r drafft o’r nodyn cyngor technegol yn gynhwysol, ochr yn ochr ac i fod yn gyson â’r strategaeth wastraff ar gyfer 2000 a’r ddogfen ymgynghori, ‘Rheoli Gwastraff yn Gynaliadwy’. Bydd y nodyn cyngor technegol ar wastraff yn darparu’r fframwaith cynllunio er mwyn helpu gweithredu’r strategaeth wastraff drwy sefydlu cyd-drefniadau rhanbarthol gwirfoddol awdurdodau lleol i baratoi cynlluniau gwastraff rhanbarthol. Bydd yn cymryd misoedd lawer i roi’r trefniadau rhanbarthol hyn ar waith, yn dilyn y nodyn cyngor technegol. Felly, ni chynhyrchir y cynlluniau gwastraff rhanbarthol tan ar ôl cyhoeddi’r strategaeth wastraff.

Janet Ryder spoken in English p. 16

Janet Ryder siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 16

I am sure that you are aware that, at the moment, planning officers have to make recommendations on the development of incinerators without the relevant policy guidelines to help them. That puts them in an invidious position, especially given the long-term effect of some of the decisions taken in Wrexham and Neath Port Talbot. Given that lack of guidance, do you believe that you should call in any plans that might have been agreed by councils during this period for further consideration?

Yr wyf yn siŵr eich bod yn ymwybodol bod yn rhaid i swyddogion cynllunio ar hyn o bryd wneud argymhellion ar y gwaith o ddatblygu llosgwyr heb y canllawiau polisi perthnasol i’w helpu. Mae hynny’n eu rhoi mewn sefyllfa anodd, yn enwedig o ystyried effaith hirdymor rhai o’r penderfyniadau a wnaethpwyd yn Wrecsam a Chastell-nedd Port Talbot. O ystyried y diffyg arweiniad hwnnw, a gredwch y dylech alw i mewn unrhyw gynlluniau y gallai cynghorau fod wedi cytuno arnynt yn ystod y cyfnod hwn i’w hystyried ymhellach?

Sue Essex spoken in English p. 16

Sue Essex siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 16

I cannot discuss call-in requests. However, that is the reason for producing planning guidance now. It will be published in a few weeks’ time and gives local authorities a basis on which to make individual planning decisions and, perhaps more importantly, for their work on the unitary development plans. It is very much focused on regional groupings.

Ni allaf drafod ceisiadau galw-i-mewn. Fodd bynnag, dyna’r rheswm dros lunio canllaw cynllunio yn awr. Caiff ei gyhoeddi ymhen ychydig wythnosau ac mae’n rhoi sail i’r awdurdodau lleol wneud penderfyniadau cynllunio unigol arni ac, efallai yn bwysicach, sail i’w gwaith ar gynlluniau datblygu unedol. Mae’n canolbwyntio’n fawr ar grwpiau rhanbarthol.

In terms of European regulations, people do not understand that we must show not only that we have produced a plan, but that local authorities are adopting it and carrying it through in waste plans. That guidance has been pushed through. The draft has been out to consultation, which has finished and is now being published. Every local authority will receive a copy within the next few weeks.

O ran rheoliadau Ewropeaidd, nid yw pobl yn deall bod yn rhaid inni ddangos nid yn unig ein bod wedi llunio cynllun, ond bod yr awdurdodau lleol yn ei fabwysiadu ac yn ei weithredu mewn cynlluniau gwastraff. Gwthiwyd yr arweiniad hwnnw drwodd. Cynhaliwyd ymgynghoriad ar y drafft, sydd wedi dod i ben ac sydd bellach yn cael ei gyhoeddi. Bydd pob awdurdod lleol yn derbyn copi o fewn yr ychydig wythnosau nesaf.

Karen Sinclair spoken in English p. 17

Karen Sinclair siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 17

Do you agree that incineration strikes fear into many people and that any plans for incineration should be considered only in the context of a huge recycling project, and then only after a full health impact study, the results of which would be fully available to all interested parties?

A gytunwch fod llosgi yn codi ofn ar lawer o bobl ac mai dim ond yng nghyd-destun prosiect ailgylchu anferth y dylid ei ystyried, ac wedyn dim ond ar ôl cynnal astudiaeth lawn o’r effaith ar iechyd, gan sicrhau y byddai’r canlyniadau ar gael i bawb sydd â diddordeb?

Sue Essex spoken in English p. 17

Sue Essex siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 17

I agree with your first point. There are worries about incineration and many other environmental issues. I have had many conversations with people in Swansea and elsewhere about their fears about such schemes. Incineration developments are subject to the integrated pollution prevention and control regime—Brian will correct me if I am wrong on this—and the waste incineration directive. Those strong regulations have been introduced by Europe to ensure that any development, whether incineration of the form that we have in Wales, or others, is subject to that evaluation process. I have had many discussions on this issue. I will meet Baroness Young in a couple of weeks’ time to consider the waste incineration directive and how it is applied in Wales, to ensure that we get the best possible advice on, and considerations of, environmental and health grounds.

Cytunaf â’ch pwynt cyntaf. Ceir pryderon ynghylch llosgi a llawer o faterion amgylcheddol eraill. Cefais lawer o sgyrsiau gyda phobl yn Abertawe a llefydd eraill am eu hofnau ynghylch cynlluniau o’r fath. Mae datblygiadau llosgi yn amodol ar y gyfundrefn atal a rheoli llygredd integredig—bydd Brian yn fy nghywiro os wyf yn anghywir ar hyn—a’r gyfarwyddeb llosgi gwastraff. Cyflwynwyd y rheoliadau cadarn hyn gan Ewrop i sicrhau bod unrhyw ddatblygiad, pa un a yw’n llosgi o’r math sydd gennym yng Nghymru, neu fath arall, yn agored i’r broses werthuso honno. Cefais lawer o drafodaethau ar y mater hwn. Byddaf yn cwrdd â’r Farwnes Young ymhen pythefnos i ystyried y gyfarwyddeb llosgi gwastraff a sut y caiff ei gweithredu yng Nghymru, i sicrhau ein bod yn cael y cyngor gorau posibl ar sail amgylcheddol ac ar sail iechyd, ynghyd ag ystyriaethau ohonynt.

David Davies spoken in English p. 17

David Davies siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 17

Do you accept that any realistic waste strategy initiative will involve some form of waste-to-energy system? Do you also regret the fact that it is becoming increasingly difficult to have a rational debate on this subject while political opportunists are kicking up a fuss about landfill in one constituency and incineration in another instead of reassuring the public that we are considering the safest possible ways of dealing with the 11 million tonnes of waste produced in Wales every year?

A dderbyniwch y bydd unrhyw fenter strategaeth wastraff realistig yn cynnwys rhyw ffurf ar system gwastraff-i-ynni? Hefyd a ydych yn gresynu ei bod yn gynyddol anodd cael dadl resymol ar y pwnc hwn tra bod manteiswyr gwleidyddol yn codi stŵr ynghylch tirlenwi mewn un etholaeth a llosgi mewn etholaeth arall yn lle sicrhau’r cyhoedd ein bod yn ystyried y ffyrdd mwyaf diogel o fynd i’r afael â’r 11 miliwn o dunelli o wastraff a gaiff ei gynhyrchu yng Nghymru bob blwyddyn?

Sue Essex spoken in English p. 17

Sue Essex siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 17

You have given me an opportunity to reassure the public that we are carefully considering health and safety implications. Regrettably, the waste debate was not held on Tuesday. However, we discussed those points in the Environment, Planning and Transport Committee meeting yesterday. I am sure that, when the debate is rescheduled, we will discuss them again. However, as you said, it is critical that we introduce a waste strategy for Wales that is implemented locally and offers the best possible options.

Yr ydych wedi rhoi cyfle imi sicrhau’r cyhoedd ein bod yn ystyried goblygiadau iechyd a diogelwch yn ofalus. Yn anffodus, ni chynhaliwyd y ddadl ar wastraff ddydd Mawrth. Fodd bynnag, trafodasom y pwyntiau hynny yng nghyfarfod Pwyllgor yr Amgylchedd, Cynllunio a Thrafnidiaeth ddoe. Yn wyf yn siŵr, pan gaiff y ddadl ei hailamseru, y byddwn yn eu trafod eto. Fodd bynnag, fel y dywedasoch, mae’n hanfodol ein bod yn cyflwyno strategaeth wastraff i Gymru a gaiff ei gweithredu’n lleol ac sy’n cynnig yr opsiynau gorau posibl.

To pick up on Karen’s point, there is a strong emphasis on recycling and composting. We have given money to local authorities, which will be increased thanks to Edwina’s budget, to follow that path. However, as Karen rightly suggested, there will be residual waste that we no longer want to go to landfill, which will have to be dealt with in other ways. That is why we must consider incineration, pyrolysis and other options. A large part of Europe has opted for incineration and we must consider the experience there also.

O ran pwynt Karen, mae pwyslais cryf ar ailgylchu a chompostio. Yr ydym wedi rhoi arian i awdurdodau lleol, a gaiff ei gynyddu diolch i gyllideb Edwina, i ddilyn y trywydd hwnnw. Fodd bynnag, fel yr awgrymodd Karen, a hynny’n briodol, bydd gwastraff yn weddill nad ydym am ei dirlenwi bellach, a bydd angen inni ymdrin ag ef mewn ffyrdd eraill. Dyna pam bod angen inni ystyried llosgi, pyrolysis ac opsiynau eraill. Mae rhan fawr o Ewrop wedi dewis llosgi a rhaid inni ystyried y profiad yno hefyd.

Gwastraff Bwrdeistrefol

Municipal Waste

Q3 Brian Gibbons spoken in English p. 18

C3 Brian Gibbons siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 18

What percentage of municipal waste goes to landfill sites in Wales? (OAQ12953)

Pa ganran o wastraff bwrdeistrefol sy’n mynd i safleoedd tirlenwi yng Nghymru? (OAQ12953)

Sue Essex spoken in English p. 18

Sue Essex siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 18

In 1999-2000, 94 per cent of municipal waste in Wales was disposed of at landfill sites and 6 per cent was recycled or composted.

Yn 1999-2000, gwaredwyd 94 y cant o wastraff bwrdeistrefol mewn safleoedd tirlenwi a chafodd 6 y cant ei ailgylchu neu ei gompostio.

Brian Gibbons spoken in English p. 18

Brian Gibbons siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 18

Those figures are alarming, particularly as we all recognise that landfill is the worst possible environmental option for waste management. That is not to mention the misery it causes local residents, as well as the possible health impacts—even though that is more debatable. Do you agree that the only way that we can achieve the highly ambitious targets outlined in our draft waste strategy is to use the full range of options outlined in that strategy, rather than counting some of them out for unscientific and opportunist political reasons?

Mae’r ffigurau hynny yn ddychrynllyd, yn enwedig gan fod pawb ohonom yn cydnabod mai tirlenwi yw’r opsiwn amgylcheddol gwaethaf posibl ar gyfer rheoli gwastraff. Mae hynny heb sôn am y diflastod y mae’n ei achosi i drigolion lleol, yn ogystal â’r effeithiau posibl ar iechyd—er bod hynny’n fwy dadleuol. A gytunwch mai’r unig ffordd y gallwn gyflawni’r targedau uchelgeisiol iawn a amlinellir yn ein strategaeth wastraff ddrafft yw drwy ddefnyddio’r ystod lawn o opsiynau a amlinellir yn y strategaeth honno, yn hytrach na chyfrif rhai ohonynt am resymau anwyddonol a manteisiol gwleidyddol?

Sue Essex spoken in English p. 18

Sue Essex siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 18

I cannot begin to think to whom you are referring. It is important that we consider all the options for treating waste, and deal with waste according to the best environmental option. I refer to environment in its broadest sense here, taking in health. You are right that we need to minimise waste and increase recycling and composting. There are ambitious targets in the waste strategy—they are more ambitious than the ones in England—but we must be realistic, because we want to move substantially and rapidly away from past landfill practices. We must consider other options and give the best possible support to local government. To reassure Members, between now and the production of the final strategy, I intend to include an evaluation of the options for residual waste. That will be based on the best knowledge that we have and on experience elsewhere.

Ni allaf ddechrau meddwl at bwy yr ydych yn cyfeirio. Mae’n bwysig ein bod yn ystyried yr holl opsiynau ar gyfer trin gwastraff, a mynd i’r afael â gwastraff yn unol â’r opsiwn amgylcheddol gorau. Cyfeiriaf at yr amgylchedd yn ei ystyr ehangaf yma, gan gynnwys iechyd. Yr ydych yn gywir bod angen inni leihau gwastraff i’r eithaf a chynyddu ailgylchu a chompostio. Mae targedau uchelgeisiol yn y strategaeth wastraff—maent yn fwy uchelgeisiol na’r rhai yn Lloegr—ond rhaid inni fod yn realistig, oherwydd ein bod am symud yn sylweddol ac yn gyflym oddi wrth arferion tirlenwi’r gorffennol. Rhaid inni ystyried opsiynau eraill a rhoi’r cymorth gorau posibl i lywodraeth leol. Er mwyn sicrhau’r Aelodau, rhwng yn awr ac adeg cynhyrchu’r strategaeth derfynol, yr wyf yn bwriadu cynnwys gwerthusiad o’r opsiynau ar gyfer gwastraff gweddilliol. Bydd hynny’n seiliedig ar yr wybodaeth orau sydd gennym ac ar brofiad mewn mannau eraill.

Helen Mary Jones spoken in English p. 19

Helen Mary Jones siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 19

What response do you and your Cabinet colleagues propose to make to the Children’s Commissioner for Wales’s intervention regarding building schools on former landfill sites?

Sut yr ydych chi a’ch cyd-Aelodau yn y Cabinet yn bwriadu ymateb i ymyriad Comisiynydd Plant Cymru o ran adeiladu ysgolion ar hen safleoedd tirlenwi?

Sue Essex spoken in English p. 19

Sue Essex siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 19

My colleague, Jane Hutt, has led on this. She has already responded to Peter Clarke’s statement.

Fy nghyd-Aelod, Jane Hutt, sydd wedi arwain ar hyn. Mae hi eisoes wedi ymateb i ddatganiad Peter Clarke.

Dafydd Elis-Thomas The Presiding Officer spoken in English p. 19

Dafydd Elis-Thomas Y Llywydd siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 19

Order. This question is about the percentage of municipal waste. The question of redeveloping landfill sites does not arise, in fairness to the Minister.

Trefn. Mae’r cwestiwn hwn yn ymwneud â chanran y gwastraff bwrdeistrefol. Nid yw’r cwestiwn o ailddatblygu safleoedd tirlenwi yn codi, er tegwch i’r Gweinidog.

Nick Bourne spoken in English p. 19

Nick Bourne siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 19

In the light of your earlier comments about the importance of recycling, are you aware of the good work being done by Evans Logistics of Aberystwyth and Llanidloes in my constituency, in developing a sustainable waste strategy based on recycling? Will you join me in congratulating it on this work?

O ystyried eich sylwadau cynharach ar bwysigrwydd ailgylchu, a ydych yn ymwybodol o’r gwaith da sy’n cael ei wneud gan Evans Logistics yn Aberystwyth a Llanidloes yn fy etholaeth i, wrth ddatblygu strategaeth wastraff gynaliadwy sy’n seiliedig ar ailgylchu? A ymunwch â mi i’w llongyfarch ar y gwaith hwn?

Sue Essex spoken in English p. 19

Sue Essex siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 19

I do not know the company as well as you do, Nick. However, I congratulate any individual or organisation that makes a substantial contribution to recycling. There are some excellent schemes in Wales, and, as you say, those who run them are often unsung heroes. These are the kind of schemes that need to be embedded in communities if we are to make this huge cultural shift. Make no mistake, this is a huge cultural change in how we deal with waste. Thank you for drawing that to my attention.

Nid wyf yn adnabod y cwmni cystal â chi, Nick. Fodd bynnag, hoffwn longyfarch unrhyw unigolyn neu sefydliad sy’n gwneud cyfraniad sylweddol at ailgylchu. Mae rhai cynlluniau rhagorol yng Nghymru ac, fel y dywedwch, mae’r rhai sy’n eu rhedeg yn aml yn gwneud hynny heb gael unrhyw glod. Dyma’r math o gynlluniau y mae angen eu sefydlu mewn cymunedau os ydym am gyflawni’r newid diwylliannol anferth hwn. Heb os, mae hwn yn newid diwylliannol anferth yn y ffordd yr ydym yn mynd i’r afael â gwastraff. Diolch am dynnu fy sylw at hynny.

Amddiffynfeydd rhag Llifogydd

Flood Defences

Q4 William Graham spoken in English p. 20

C4 William Graham siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 20

Will the Minister make a statement concerning her discussions with organisations in Wales on our flood defences? (OAQ13032)

A wnaiff y Gweinidog ddatganiad ynghylch ei thrafodaethau â chyrff yng Nghymru ar ein hamddiffynfeydd rhag llifogydd? (OAQ13032)

Sue Essex spoken in English p. 20

Sue Essex siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 20

That is a timely question considering the weather. Since last autumn’s floods I have held discussions about flood defences in Wales with local authorities, flood defence committee chairmen, and the Environment Agency. I am due to have a further meeting with John Hughes, Chair of the Environment Agency’s regional flood defence committee, this afternoon.

Mae hwnnw yn gwestiwn amserol o ystyried y tywydd. Ers llifogydd yr hydref diwethaf cefais drafodaethau ynghylch amddiffynfeydd rhag llifogydd yng Nghymru gydag awdurdodau lleol, cadeiryddion pwyllgorau amddiffyn rhag llifogydd, ac Asiantaeth yr Amgylchedd. Yr wyf wedi trefnu cyfarfod arall gyda John Hughes, Cadeirydd pwyllgor rhanbarthol amddiffyn rhag llifogydd Asiantaeth yr Amgylchedd y prynhawn yma.

William Graham spoken in English p. 20

William Graham siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 20

You will be aware of the campaign to advise people living in areas liable to flooding to reassess their insurance. Has this campaign been successful, and are you aware of any person being refused insurance cover, and, if so, what arrangements will you make?

Byddwch yn ymwybodol o’r ymgyrch i hysbysu pobl sy’n byw mewn ardaloedd sydd mewn perygl o ddioddef llifogydd i ail-asesu eu hyswiriant. A fu’r ymgyrch hon yn llwyddiannus, ac a ydych yn ymwybodol o unrhyw un y gwrthodwyd yswiriant iddynt ac, os felly, pa drefniadau a wnewch?

Sue Essex spoken in English p. 20

Sue Essex siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 20

That will be one of the items on the agenda for this afternoon’s meeting. I will come back to you with the details.

Dyna fydd un o’r eitemau ar agenda’r cyfarfod y prynhawn yma. Dof yn ôl atoch gyda’r manylion.

Alun Pugh spoken in English p. 20

Alun Pugh siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 20

Sue, you will understand the concerns of the people of Ruthin every time there is a downpour. You have been helpful and supportive to date. Will you keep the pressure on to ensure that those who live and work in Ruthin need not fear flooding every time it rains?

Sue, byddwch yn deall pryderon pobl Rhuthun bob tro y bydd cawodydd trymion. Buoch yn gefnogol ac yn barod iawn eich cymwynas hyd yn hyn. A wnewch chi barhau i bwyso i sicrhau na fydd angen i’r rhai hynny sy’n byw ac yn gweithio yn Rhuthun ofni llifogydd bob tro y bydd yn glawio?

Sue Essex spoken in English p. 20

Sue Essex siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 20

I have visited Ruthin and am aware of the concerns there. Nobody wants the people of Ruthin to continue to face that situation. A considerable sum of money—an extra £25 million—has been put in for capital schemes over three years. I am investing a lot of extra money in preparing feasibility schemes. There is 100 per cent funding for the work in the catchment areas of the River Dee. We have also increased the capital grant. We are doing our best financially to support local government and the Environment Agency, in consultation with local communities, to come up with schemes. Some of these schemes are quite difficult, and often have wider implications that affect more than just the problem area. It is vital that research is done so that we get the best, most sustainable and long-term solution possible.

Yr wyf wedi ymweld â Rhuthun ac yn ymwybodol o’r pryderon yno. Nid oes neb am i bobl Rhuthun barhau i wynebu’r sefyllfa honno. Rhoddwyd swm sylweddol o arian—£25 miliwn yn ychwanegol—ar gyfer cynlluniau cyfalaf dros dair blynedd. Yr wyf yn buddsoddi llawer o arian ychwanegol mewn darparu cynlluniau ymarferoldeb. Mae cyllid o 100 y cant ar gael ar gyfer y gwaith yn nhalgylchoedd Afon Dyfrdwy. Yr ydym hefyd wedi cynyddu’r grant cyfalaf. Gwnawn ein gorau’n ariannol i gynorthwyo llywodraeth leol ac Asiantaeth yr Amgylchedd, mewn ymgynghoriad â chymunedau lleol, i greu cynlluniau. Mae rhai o’r cynlluniau hyn yn eithaf anodd, ac yn aml mae iddynt oblygiadau ehangach sy’n effeithio ar fwy na’r ardal lle mae’r broblem. Mae’n hanfodol gwneud gwaith ymchwil fel y gallwn gael yr ateb gorau, mwyaf cynaliadwy a hirdymor posibl.

Amddiffynfeydd Rhag Llifogydd ar Afon Alun

Flood Defences on the River Alyn

Q5 Eleanor Burnham spoken in English p. 21

C5 Eleanor Burnham siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 21

What plans are there to improve the flood defences of the River Alyn in north-east Wales? (OAQ13024)

Pa gynlluniau sy’n bodoli i wella amddiffynfeydd Afon Alun yng ngogledd-ddwyrain Cymru rhag llifogydd? (OAQ13024)

I wish to ask particularly about the Rossett area.

Dymunaf holi’n benodol ynglŷn ag ardal Yr Orsedd.

Sue Essex spoken in English p. 21

Sue Essex siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 21

This is a matter for the local flood defence committee in conjunction with the Environment Agency. I understand that the agency has carried out general clearance work following flooding and is actively considering works that can be undertaken to improve the flood defences. We funded the catchment study of the Dee, into which the Alyn flows, and the agency is now considering the work that can be done.

Mater i’r pwyllgor amddiffyn rhag llifogydd lleol mewn cydweithrediad ag Asiantaeth yr Amgylchedd yw hwn. Deallaf fod yr asiantaeth wedi ymgymryd â gwaith clirio cyffredinol yn dilyn y llifogydd a’i fod yn ystyried gwaith y gellir ei wneud i wella’r amddiffynfeydd rhag llifogydd. Ariannwyd astudiaeth o dalgylch Afon Dyfrdwy gennym, y mae Afon Alun yn llifo iddi, ac mae’r asiantaeth bellach yn ystyried y gwaith y gellir ei wneud.

Eleanor Burnham spoken in English p. 21

Eleanor Burnham siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 21

The major concern is the lack of river maintenance along the River Alyn. The Rossett community council, whose chair is a former river authority supervisor, has undertaken a photo survey of the Trefalun area. I saw this last week and, despite what you said, the Environment Agency has not done what it has claimed. There is a huge blockage along the river’s course. The people of Rossett are particularly concerned because last year the entire village was submerged: the main street; the post office—

Y prif bryder yw’r diffyg gwaith cynnal a chadw ar hyd Afon Alun. Mae cadeirydd cyngor cymuned Yr Orsedd yn gyn arolygydd gyda’r awdurdod afonydd, ac mae’r cyngor hwnnw wedi cynnal arolwg ffotograffau o ardal Trefalun. Gwelais hwn yr wythnos diwethaf ac, er gwaethaf yr hyn a ddywedasoch, nid yw Asiantaeth yr Amgylchedd wedi gwneud yr hyn y mae’n ei honni. Mae rhwystr anferth ar hyd yr afon. Mae pobl yr Orsedd yn bryderus iawn gan i’r pentref cyfan gael ei foddi y llynedd: y stryd fawr; swyddfa’r post—

Dafydd Elis-Thomas The Presiding Officer spoken in English p. 21

Dafydd Elis-Thomas Y Llywydd siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 21

Order. I am anxious about flooding, but I want you to ask a supplementary and not give us a speech on Rossett.

Trefn. Yr wyf yn bryderus ynglŷn â llifogydd, ond yr wyf am ichi ofyn cwestiwn atodol yn hytrach na rhoi araith inni ar yr Orsedd.

Eleanor Burnham spoken in English p. 22

Eleanor Burnham siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 22

Rossett’s businesses and its post office are important to its people.

Mae busnesau a swyddfa bost yr Orsedd yn bwysig i’w phobl.

Dafydd Elis-Thomas The Presiding Officer spoken in English p. 22

Dafydd Elis-Thomas Y Llywydd siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 22

It is also important that the Assembly abides by its own procedures, otherwise Members will make speeches instead of asking supplementaries.

Mae hefyd yn bwysig bod y Cynulliad yn cadw at ei weithdrefnau ei hun, neu bydd yr Aelodau yn gwneud areithiau yn hytrach na gofyn cwestiynau atodol.

Sue Essex spoken in English p. 22

Sue Essex siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 22

I visited Rossett when it was flooded and it was distressing for its people. If you have evidence that there are still problems—and clearly you have—I would be grateful to have it. The Environment Agency will be present at the flood defence review meeting. There is a wider issue about maintenance, which will be covered in my flood review. I am looking at how some of the maintenance of the tributary rivers, of which the River Alyn is one, needs to be included in some of the mainstream programmes. I look forward to receiving the evidence.

Ymwelais â’r Orsedd pan oedd llifogydd yno ac yr oedd hynny yn ofidus i’w phobl. Os oes gennych dystiolaeth bod problemau’n parhau—ac yn amlwg mae gennych—byddwn yn falch o’i derbyn. Bydd Asiantaeth yr Amgylchedd yn bresennol yn y cyfarfod adolygu amddiffynfeydd rhag llifogydd. Mae cynnal a chadw yn fater ehangach a gaiff ei gwmpasu yn fy adolygiad o lifogydd. Yr wyf yn edrych ar y ffordd y mae angen cynnwys y gwaith o gynnal a chadw rhai llednentydd, megis Afon Alun, yn rhai o’r rhaglenni prif ffrwd. Edrychaf ymlaen at dderbyn y dystiolaeth.

Janet Ryder spoken in English p. 22

Janet Ryder siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 22

One matter that came to light last year during the floods was that not only do we need to improve flood defences but also we need early warning systems in place. There was talk at that time of developing early warning systems—

Un mater a ddaeth i’r amlwg yn ystod y llifogydd y llynedd oedd nid yn unig bod angen inni wella ein hamddiffynfeydd rhag llifogydd ond bod angen inni hefyd sefydlu systemau rhybuddio cynnar. Soniwyd ar y pryd am ddatblygu systemau rhybuddio cynnar—

Dafydd Elis-Thomas The Presiding Officer spoken in English p. 22

Dafydd Elis-Thomas Y Llywydd siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 22

Order. I am now hearing a speech about Ruthin.

Trefn. Yr wyf yn awr yn clywed araith ynglŷn â Rhuthun.

Janet Ryder spoken in English p. 22

Janet Ryder siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 22

I am talking about the River Alyn.

Yr wyf yn siarad am Afon Alun.

Dafydd Elis-Thomas The Presiding Officer spoken in English p. 22

Dafydd Elis-Thomas Y Llywydd siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 22

Ask a question, please.

Gofynnwch gwestiwn, os gwelwch yn dda.

Janet Ryder spoken in English p. 22

Janet Ryder siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 22

I am talking about the River Alyn and the River Clwyd in Ruthin. Early warning systems should have been put in place for both of those, Minister. At what stage is that planning?

Yr wyf yn siarad am Afon Alun ac Afon Clwyd yn Rhuthun. Dylai systemau rhybuddio cynnar fod wedi eu gosod ar gyfer y ddwy afon hynny, Weinidog. Ar ba gam y mae’r cynlluniau hynny?

Sue Essex spoken in English p. 22

Sue Essex siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 22

Returning to the Alyn, it was not included in the flood warning—[Interruption.] I will answer anything; the Presiding Officer has been kind to me. It is his birthday this week and I was going to ask you to sing Pen-blwydd Hapus, if it was allowed under Standing Orders. The problem with the River Alyn is that it was not included in the flood warning scheme. That has now been rectified. There was a general view that the new flood warning system worked better. If it has not been working well enough, that should be included on the agenda for discussion with the Environment Agency. I would be happy to talk to Janet if she wishes to raise a particular point.

Gan ddychwelyd at Afon Alun, ni chafodd ei chynnwys yn y rhybudd llifogydd—[Torri ar draws.] Atebaf unrhyw beth; bu’r Llywydd yn garedig wrthyf. Mae’n cael ei ben-blwydd yr wythnos hon, ac yr oeddwn yn bwriadu gofyn ichi ganu Pen-blwydd Hapus, pe caniateid hynny o dan y Rheolau Sefydlog. Y broblem gydag Afon Alun yw na chafodd ei chynnwys yn y cynllun rhybudd rhag llifogydd. Cywirwyd hynny bellach. Y farn gyffredinol oedd bod y system rhybudd rhag llifogydd newydd yn gweithio’n well. Os na fu’n gweithio’n ddigon da, dylai hynny fod wedi’i gynnwys ar yr agenda ar gyfer trafodaethau gydag Asiantaeth yr Amgylchedd. Byddwn yn fodlon siarad â Janet os yw am godi pwynt arbennig.

Ail Ddrafft ‘Polisi Cynllunio Cymru’

Redrafting of ‘Planning Policy Wales’

Q6 Rhodri Glyn Thomas spoken in English p. 23

C6 Rhodri Glyn Thomas siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 23

Can the Minster confirm that the redrafting of ‘Planning Policy Wales’ will state that the sustainable development scheme should be a material consideration in the planning process? (OAQ13008)

A all y Gweinidog gadarnhau y bydd ail ddrafft ‘Polisi Cynllunio Cymru’ yn nodi y dylai’r cynllun datblygu cynaliadwy fod yn un o brif ystyriaethau y broses gynllunio? (OAQ13008)

Sue Essex spoken in English p. 23

Sue Essex siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 23

The sustainable development scheme provides the framework for the Assembly’s landuse policies as set out in ‘Planning Policy Wales’, which embodies the Assembly’s key commitment to sustainable development. The Assembly’s sustainable landuse policies will be material to decisions on individual planning applications. The Assembly and the planning inspectors will take them into account in the determination of called-in planning applications and appeals.

Mae’r cynllun datblygu cynaliadwy yn cynnig fframwaith ar gyfer polisïau defnyddio tir y Cynulliad fel y nodwyd yn ‘Polisi Cynllunio Cymru’, sy’n ymgorffori prif ymrwymiad y Cynulliad i ddatblygu cynaliadwy. Caiff polisïau defnyddio tir cynaliadwy y Cynulliad eu hystyried mewn penderfyniadau ar geisiadau cynllunio unigol. Bydd y Cynulliad a’r arolygwyr cynllunio yn eu hystyried wrth benderfynu ar geisiadau ac apeliadau a gaiff eu galw i mewn.

Rhodri Glyn Thomas spoken in English p. 23

Rhodri Glyn Thomas siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 23

Sustainable development is a material consideration for the Assembly. However, it is not a material consideration for local authorities, when they consider planning applications. Therefore, the Assembly’s appeals system will be different from the one the local authorities will use when they consider planning applications in the first place.

Mae datblygu cynaliadwy yn ystyriaeth bwysig i’r Cynulliad. Fodd bynnag, nid yw’n ystyriaeth bwysig i awdurdodau lleol, pan fyddant yn ystyried ceisiadau cynllunio. Felly, bydd system apeliadau’r Cynulliad yn wahanol i’r un y bydd awdurdodau lleol yn ei defnyddio pan fyddant yn ystyried ceisiadau cynllunio yn y lle cyntaf.

Sue Essex spoken in English p. 23

Sue Essex siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 23

That should not be the case. We should all be working under the same guidance. Although the sustainable development scheme legally applies to us because it is in the Government of Wales Act 1998, we will discuss revised planning guidance in Committee soon. This is more about sustainable development and how it needs to be interpreted by everyone, not just local authorities considering applications, but also those making applications and policies in unitary development plans. It is the guidance to which the inspectors, those of us who sit on planning decision committees and local authorities should adhere in determining applications. That should ensure consistency across Wales.

Nid felly y dylai fod. Dylem i gyd fod yn defnyddio’r un arweiniad wrth weithio. Er bod y cynllun datblygu cynaliadwy yn berthnasol i ni yn gyfreithiol oherwydd ei fod yn rhan o Ddeddf Llywodraeth Cymru 1998, byddwn yn trafod yr arweiniad cynllunio diwygiedig yn y Pwyllgor yn fuan. Mae hyn yn ymwneud yn fwy â datblygu cynaliadwy a sut y dylai gael ei ddehongli gan bawb, nid dim ond awdurdodau lleol sy’n ystyried ceisiadau, ond hefyd y rhai sy’n gwneud ceisiadau a pholisïau’r cynlluniau datblygu unedol. Dyma’r arweiniad y dylai arolygwyr, y rhai ohonom sy’n eistedd ar bwyllgorau penderfyniadau cynllunio ac awdurdodau lleol lynu wrtho wrth benderfynu ar geisiadau. Dylai hynny sicrhau cysondeb ledled Cymru.

Glyn Davies spoken in English p. 24

Glyn Davies siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 24

Will you guarantee that under ‘Planning Policy Wales’ you will end your department’s unacceptable practice of delaying decisions on renewable energy applications—one was delayed for up to five years—in the hope that they will be withdrawn, thus avoiding the need to make difficult decisions?

A wnewch chi warantu, o dan ‘Bolisi Cynllunio Cymru’, y byddwch yn rhoi terfyn ar arfer annerbyniol eich adran o oedi gyda phenderfyniadau ar geisiadau ynni adnewyddadwy—bu oedi am hyd at bum mlynedd gydag un penderfyniad—yn y gobaith y cânt eu tynnu yn ôl, er mwyn osgoi’r angen i wneud penderfyniadau anodd?

Sue Essex spoken in English p. 24

Sue Essex siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 24

That question is nonsense. It is not true that people put files in trays and refuse to deal with them because the application might be withdrawn.

Mae’r cwestiwn hwnnw yn nonsens. Nid yw’n wir bod pobl yn rhoi ffeiliau mewn blychau ac yn gwrthod delio â hwy oherwydd y gallai’r cais gael ei dynnu yn ôl.

Glyn Davies spoken in English p. 24

Glyn Davies siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 24

That is exactly what they do.

Dyna’n union y maent yn ei wneud.

Sue Essex spoken in English p. 24

Sue Essex siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 24

You cannot make accusations without evidence. There is no evidence of that. I want a speedier decision-making process. I think we both look forward to that. There have been occasions when some of the applications to which you refer—and I have looked into them—were withdrawn by the applicants. We need to ensure that the proper planning guidelines are in place. That work is being done. The technical advice group is working with the renewable energy interests to ensure that the planning guidelines are in place. I do not want developers and local authorities not understanding what the guidance on renewable energy is. That work will be completed soon.

Ni allwch wneud cyhuddiadau heb dystiolaeth. Nid oes tystiolaeth o hynny. Yr wyf am weld proses gyflymach o wneud penderfyniadau. Credaf fod ni ein dau yn edrych ymlaen at hynny. Bu rhai achlysuron pan gafodd rhai o’r ceisiadau y cyfeiriwch atynt—ac yr wyf wedi eu harchwilio—eu tynnu yn ôl gan yr ymgeiswyr. Rhaid inni sicrhau bod y canllawiau cynllunio cywir mewn grym. Mae’r gwaith hwnnw yn cael ei wneud. Mae’r grŵp cyngor technegol yn gweithio gyda rheini â buddiannau mewn ynni adnewyddadwy i sicrhau bod yr arweiniad cynllunio mewn grym. Nid wyf am i ddatblygwyr ac awdurdodau lleol fethu â deall beth yw’r arweiniad ar ynni adnewyddadwy. Caiff y gwaith hwnnw ei gwblhau yn fuan.

Pwyntiau o Drefn

Points of Order

Alun Cairns spoken in English p. 24

Alun Cairns siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 24

Point of order. I raise this under Standing Order No. 8.17. It relates to the Economic Development Committee meeting yesterday. I asked the Chairman of the Economic Development Committee to take a vote on a motion that I was about to propose. However, under Standing Order No. 8.17, the clerk and the Chairman referred to the Presiding Officer’s guidelines, which state that a motion can only be accepted with the agreement of the Committee Chairman. Will you offer guidance as to when a Committee Chairman should reject a view taken by the whole Committee?

Pwynt o drefn. Codaf hyn o dan Reol Sefydlog Rhif 8.17. Mae’n ymwneud â chyfarfod y Pwyllgor Datblygu Economaidd ddoe. Gofynnais i Gadeirydd y Pwyllgor Datblygu Economaidd gymryd pleidlais ar gynnig yr oeddwn ar fin ei gynnig. Fodd bynnag, o dan Reol Sefydlog Rhif 8.17, cyfeiriodd y clerc a’r Cadeirydd at ganllawiau’r Llywydd, sy’n nodi mai dim ond drwy gytundeb Cadeirydd y Pwyllgor y gellir derbyn cynnig. A wnewch chi roi arweiniad ar pryd y dylai Cadeirydd Pwyllgor wrthod barn Pwyllgor cyfan?

Dafydd Elis-Thomas The Presiding Officer spoken in English p. 25

Dafydd Elis-Thomas Y Llywydd siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 25

The Chair of a Committee has full responsibility for the operation of that Committee at all times. The panel of Chairs meets regularly and reviews good practice in Committees, and guidelines are occasionally issued.

Cadeirydd y Pwyllgor sydd â chyfrifoldeb llawn dros weithrediad y Pwyllgor hwnnw bob amser. Mae panel y Cadeiryddion yn cwrdd yn rheolaidd ac yn adolygu arferion da mewn Pwyllgorau, a dosberthir canllawiau yn achlysurol.

Christine Gwyther spoken in English p. 25

Christine Gwyther siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 25

Further to that point of order, the whole Committee did not take a view, because a vote was not taken. Alun Cairns took a view. At the meeting yesterday I was forced to remind Alun Cairns that we do not call people ‘chairman’ in the Assembly. I note that he is doing so again today and I would like you to rule on that.

Ymhellach i’r pwynt hwnnw o drefn, nid oedd barn gan y Pwyllgor cyfan, gan na chymerwyd pleidlais. Alun Cairns oedd â barn. Yn y cyfarfod ddoe, fe’m gorfodwyd i atgoffa Alun Cairns nad ydym yn galw pobl yn ‘chairman’ yn y Cynulliad. Nodaf ei fod yn gwneud hynny eto heddiw a dymunaf i chi ddyfarnu ar hynny.

Dafydd Elis-Thomas The Presiding Officer spoken in English p. 25

Dafydd Elis-Thomas Y Llywydd siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 25

You are right. The term used in Standing Orders is ‘Chair’. I ask Members to follow Standing Orders at all times.

Yr ydych yn gywir. Y term a ddefnyddir yn y Rheolau Sefydlog yw ‘Chair’. Gofynnaf i’r Aelodau ddilyn y Rheolau Sefydlog bob amser.

Alun Cairns spoken in English p. 25

Alun Cairns siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 25

Further to that point of order, please accept my apology, Presiding Officer, for my incorrect turn of phrase. However, the point is that the Committee was not allowed to express a view yesterday because the Chair refused to accept a motion proposed in Committee. It was a matter of urgent importance—

Ymhellach i’r pwynt hwnnw o drefn, ymddiheuraf, Lywydd, am ddefnyddio ymadrodd anghywir. Fodd bynnag, y pwynt yw na chafodd y Pwyllgor yr hawl i fynegi barn ddoe oherwydd bod y Cadeirydd yn gwrthod derbyn cynnig a gynigiwyd yn y Pwyllgor. Yr oedd yn fater o bwys mawr—

Dafydd Elis-Thomas The Presiding Officer spoken in English p. 25

Dafydd Elis-Thomas Y Llywydd siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 25

Order. There is nothing further to add. You are labouring this point. Standing Order No. 8.17 is clear:

Trefn. Nid oes rhagor i’w ddweud. Yr ydych yn rhygnu ar y pwynt hwn. Mae Rheol Sefydlog Rhif 8.17 yn eglur:

‘Except where standing orders provide otherwise, the chair of a committee shall determine its procedures, subject to guidelines which may be issued by the Presiding Officer after consulting the Business Committee and the panel of subject committee chairs.’

‘Ac eithrio lle mae’r rheolau sefydlog yn darparu fel arall, cadeirydd pwyllgor fydd yn pennu ei weithdrefnau, yn amodol ar ganllawiau y gall y Llywydd eu rhoi ar ôl ymgynghori â’r Pwyllgor Busnes a phanel cadeiryddion y pwyllgorau pwnc.’

That is the procedure and will continue to be so. The panel of Chairs, under the effective chairship of my deputy, is a useful forum for the review of Committee procedures and to assist all of us in the Assembly who preside, or chair, to fulfil our duties in a balanced way.

Dyna’r weithdrefn, a bydd yn parhau felly. Mae panel y Cadeiryddion, o dan gadeiryddiaeth effeithiol fy nirprwy, yn fforwm defnyddiol ar gyfer adolygu gweithdrefnau Pwyllgorau a chynorthwyo pawb ohonom yn y Cynulliad sy’n llywyddu, neu’n cadeirio, i gyflawni ein dyletswyddau mewn modd cytbwys.

Alun Cairns spoken in English p. 26

Alun Cairns siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 26

Further to that point of order, can you confirm that the Chair’s role is to ensure that all Committee members are allowed to express their views on varying matters?

Ymhellach i’r pwynt hwnnw o drefn, a allwch gadarnhau mai rôl y Cadeirydd yw sicrhau y caiff pob aelod o’r Pwyllgor fynegi eu barn ar faterion amrywiol?

Dafydd Elis-Thomas The Presiding Officer spoken in English p. 26

Dafydd Elis-Thomas Y Llywydd siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 26

That is the role of all Chairs at all times. However, any expression of opinion in a committee must be within Standing Orders and within the good order of the Committee, at the Chair’s discretion, so that business may continue.

Dyna yw rôl pob Cadeirydd bob amser. Fodd bynnag, dylai pob barn a fynegir mewn pwyllgor fod o fewn y Rheolau Sefydlog ac o fewn trefn dda y Pwyllgor, ac yn ôl disgresiwn y Cadeirydd, fel y gellir parhau â’r busnes.

Christine Gwyther spoken in English p. 26

Christine Gwyther siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 26

Further to that point of order. All members of the Committee were allowed every opportunity to express their views. I allowed the scrutiny of the Minister to continue for an hour. Members were lucky to have that hour to grill the Minister.

Ymhellach i’r pwynt hwnnw o drefn. Cafodd pob aelod o’r Pwyllgor bob cyfle i fynegi eu barn. Caniateais i’r aelodau graffu ar waith y Gweinidog am awr. Yr oedd yr Aelodau yn ffodus i gael yr awr honno i holi’r Gweinidog.

Dafydd Wigley siaradwyd yn Gymraeg t. 26

Dafydd Wigley spoken in Welsh p. 26

Pwynt o drefn. Codaf bwynt o drefn dan Reol Sefydlog Rhif 6.8, yn ymwneud â datganiadau gan Weinidogion. Codaf fater yr ohebiaeth rhwng y Cynulliad a Phartneriaeth Richard Rogers ynglŷn â dyfodol cynllun yr adeilad newydd. Mae’r wybodaeth yn y llythyr hwnnw yn bellgyrhaeddol, ac yn wahanol i’r arweinaid a gawsom yn y Siambr hyd yma. Nid ydym mewn sefyllfa i wybod pa un sydd yn iawn, pa un sydd yn anghywir, ynteu a yw’r gwirionedd rhywle rhwng y ddau. A gawsoch chi gais gan y Gweinidog dros Gyllid, Llywodraeth Leol a Chymunedau i wneud datganiad yn y Siambr ar y mater hwn er mwyn inni gael gwybod yn union beth yw’r sefyllfa? Beth yw ei hymateb i gynnwys y llythyr hwn? Byddai hynny yn arweiniad inni pan fo angen inni ateb yr ohebiaeth.

Point of Order. I raise a point of order under Standing Order No 6.8, concerning statements by Ministers. I raise the matter of the correspondence between the Assembly and the Richard Rogers Partnership regarding the future of the plans for the new building. The information contained in that letter is far-reaching, and different to the guidance that we have so far received in the Chamber. We are not in a position to know which is correct, which is incorrect, or whether the truth lies somewhere in between. Have you received a request by the Minister for Finance, Local Government and Communities to make a statement in the Chamber on this matter so that we may know exactly what the position is? What is her response to the contents of this letter? That would provide us with guidance when we need to reply to the correspondence.

Dafydd Elis-Thomas Y Llywydd siaradwyd yn Gymraeg t. 26

Dafydd Elis-Thomas The Presiding Officer spoken in Welsh p. 26

Nid wyf wedi cael cais am ddatganiad, ond mae’r Cabinet yn rhydd i wneud hynny ar unrhyw adeg. Nid wyf ychwaith wedi cael cais am gwestiwn brys. Fodd bynnag, sylwais ar gwestiwn 4 gan Cynog Dafis i’r Gweinidog ddydd Iau nesaf. Bydd hwnnw’n gyfle addas i drafod y mater, os yw hynny’n dderbyniol.

I have not received a request for a statement, but the Cabinet is free to do so at any time. Neither have I received a request for an urgent question. However, I noticed Cynog Dafis’s question 4 to the Minister next Thursday. That will be an appropriate opportunity to discuss the matter, if that is acceptable.

Alun Cairns siaradwyd yn Gymraeg t. 27

Alun Cairns spoken in Welsh p. 27

Ymhellach i’r pwynt hwnnw o drefn—

Further to that point of order—

Dafydd Elis-Thomas Y Llywydd siaradwyd yn Gymraeg t. 27

Dafydd Elis-Thomas The Presiding Officer spoken in Welsh p. 27

Na. Atebais y pwynt o drefn gan esbonio bod cwestiwn priodol ar yr agenda ddydd Iau nesaf. Bydd modd i Cynog Dafis ofyn y cwestiwn ac i’r Gweinidog ei ateb. Yr wyf yn barod i ganiatáu amser ychwanegol os bydd nifer o gwestiynau atodol.

No. I answered the point of order and explained that there is a suitable question on next Thursday’s agenda. There will be an opportunity for Cynog Dafis to ask the question and for the Minister to answer it. I am willing to allow additional time if there are several supplementary questions.

Nick Bourne spoken in English p. 27

Nick Bourne siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 27

Further to that point of order, we have requested that that correspondence be considered as a matter of urgent public importance. It was too late for the request to be considered today, but we would like it to be considered for the next Plenary in the absence of a statement.

Ymhellach i’r pwynt hwnnw o drefn, gwnaethom gais i ystyried yr ohebiaeth honno fel mater brys sydd o bwys cyhoeddus. Yr oedd yn rhy hwyr i’r cais gael ei ystyried heddiw, ond hoffem iddo gael ei ystyried ar gyfer y Cyfarfod Llawn nesaf yn absenoldeb datganiad.

Dafydd Elis-Thomas The Presiding Officer spoken in English p. 27

Dafydd Elis-Thomas Y Llywydd siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 27

If I have received such a request, then I apologise for misleading the Assembly. I will consider that request for Tuesday’s Plenary. However, as I have already said, there is a question on next Thursday’s agenda and I will allow extended questioning as appropriate, if I decide not to allow an urgent question.

Os derbyniais gais o’r fath, ymddiheuraf am gamarwain y Cynulliad. Ystyriaf y cais hwnnw ar gyfer Cyfarfod Llawn ddydd Mawrth. Fodd bynnag, fel y dywedais eisoes, mae cwestiwn ar agenda dydd Iau nesaf a chaniatâf holi estynedig fel y bo’n briodol, os penderfynaf beidio â chaniatáu cwestiwn brys.

Gareth Jones siaradwyd yn Gymraeg t. 27

Gareth Jones spoken in Welsh p. 27

Pwynt o drefn. Mae’r pwynt hwn o drefn yn ymwneud â datganiadau gan Weinidogion. Wedi i Gomisiynydd Plant Cymru wneud datganiad pwysig echdoe ynghylch diogelwch ac iechyd plant ar safleoedd heintiedig yng Nghonwy a Chasnewydd, a yw’n iawn i Weinidog yn y Llywodraeth bartneriaeth lythyru’r awdurdodau lleol yn awgrymu y dylent ddiystyru ei sylwadau? Dyfynnaf o’r datganiad,

Point of order. This point of order concerns statements by Ministers. Following the Children’s Commissioner for Wales’s important statement on Tuesday on children’s health and safety on contaminated sites in Conwy and Newport, is it right for a Minister in the partnership Government to circulate a letter to the local authorities suggesting that they should disregard his comments? I quote from the statement,

‘In the final analysis the Commissioner’s advice does not have the capacity to override any decision which the local authority might wish to make. In coming to any decision, however, I am sure that councils will wish to fully explore the issues which he has raised.’

Wedi i’r Llywodraeth a ninnau oll ymfalchïo yn ei benodiad, onid yw’r datganiad hwn yn tanseilio ei statws ac yn cwestiynu ei rôl? Rhaid inni ofyn, pa werth sydd i’r swydd?

Since the Government and all of us took pride in his appointment, does this statement not undermine his status and question his role? We must ask, what is the value of this post?

Andrew Davies The Minister for Assembly Business spoken in English p. 28

Andrew Davies Y Trefnydd siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 28

We have made our position clear. The Children’s Commission for Wales is independent and is not directly accountable to the Assembly. It would therefore be inappropriate for us to comment on that matter. Planning issues are a matter for local authorities. We would be in breach of our statutory duties if were we to intervene in that process. We made that point clear and I understand that the children’s commissioner is happy with that position.

Gwnaethom ein safbwynt yn glir. Mae Comisiynydd Plant Cymru yn annibynnol ac nid yw’n uniongyrchol atebol i’r Cynulliad. Byddai felly yn amhriodol inni wneud sylwadau ar y mater hwnnw. Cyfrifoldeb awdurdodau lleol yw materion cynllunio. Byddem yn mynd yn groes i’n dyletswyddau statudol pe baem yn ymyrryd yn y broses honno. Gwnaethom y pwynt hwnnw yn glir a deallaf fod y comisiynydd plant yn fodlon ar y safiad hwnnw.

Gareth Jones siaradwyd yn Gymraeg t. 28

Gareth Jones spoken in Welsh p. 28

Ymhellach i’r pwynt hwnnw o drefn, y broblem yw i’r ymateb a gawsom gyfeirio at faterion cynllunio. Iechyd a diogelwch plant yw’r mater dan sylw. Beth fydd y Cynulliad a’r Gweinidogion sydd â chyfrifoldeb am addysg, iechyd a’r amgylchedd yn ei wneud ynghylch y mater hwn?

Further to that point of order, the problem is that the response that we received referred to planning issues. The matter in hand is the health and safety of children. What will the Assembly and the Ministers responsible for education, health and the environment do about this matter?

Dafydd Elis-Thomas Y Llywydd siaradwyd yn Gymraeg t. 28

Dafydd Elis-Thomas The Presiding Officer spoken in Welsh p. 28

Mae’r Gweinidog wedi gwneud sylw, ac nid yw hwn yn fater i mi. Mae’r comisiynydd plant yn berson statudol sydd ag annibyniaeth statudol yn ôl deddf gwlad. Mae perffaith ryddid gan Aelodau’r Cynulliad ar unrhyw adeg i drafod datganiad gan y comisiynydd, yn unol â threfn y Cynulliad. Felly, mae’n gwbl reolaidd i Aelodau gwestiynu neu gynnal dadleuon ar yr hyn sydd yn ddatganiadau cyhoeddus. Fodd bynnag, o ran yr hyn yr ydym yn ei drafod, nid yw hwn yn bwynt o drefn.

The Minister has commented, and this is not a matter for me. The children’s commissioner, under the law of the land, is a statutory person with statutory independence. Assembly Members have every right at any time to discuss any statement by the commissioner, in line with Assembly procedures. Therefore, it is in order for Members to question or debate what are public statements. However, in relation to what we are discussing, this is not a point of order.

Helen Mary Jones spoken in English p. 28

Helen Mary Jones siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 28

Further to that point of order, part of the commissioner’s role is to raise local issues and look at their wider significance. Have you received any requests from Ministers to make statements about the broader issues raised by the particular issues raised by the commissioner in the context of those two planning applications?

Ymhellach i’r pwynt hwnnw o drefn, rhan o rôl y comisiynydd yw codi pwyntiau lleol ac edrych ar eu harwyddocâd ehangach. A gawsoch chi geisiadau gan Weinidogion i wneud datganiadau ynglŷn â’r materion ehangach a godwyd yn sgîl y pwyntiau penodol a godwyd gan y comisiynydd yng nghyd-destun y ddau gais cynllunio hynny?

Jocelyn Davies spoken in English p. 28

Jocelyn Davies siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 28

I raise this point of order under Standing Order No. 6.12, which refers to motions tabled five working days prior to debate. The Minister for Assembly Business owes us a full explanation for the failure to hold the debate on the waste strategy on Tuesday. It was the only tabled business of which the public was aware. The other business involved no named day motions. People who had travelled from Swansea and Wrexham were rightly angry that the Minister postponed the very thing that they had come here to witness. The Plenary then finished early, which added insult to their injury. As the Plaid Cymru business manager, I was not consulted on this postponement, which has been described today by the Minister for Environment as regrettable. Plaid Cymru Members had expected Tuesday’s Plenary to continue until at least 6 p.m. We deserve an explanation and want to know when will the debate be rescheduled.

Codaf y pwynt hwn o drefn o dan Reol Sefydlog Rhif 6.12, sy’n cyfeirio at gynigion a gyflwynir bum diwrnod gwaith cyn y ddadl. Dylai’r Trefnydd roi eglurhad llawn inni am baham na chynhaliwyd y ddadl ar y strategaeth wastraff ddydd Mawrth. Dyna’r unig fusnes a gyflwynwyd yr oedd y cyhoedd yn ymwybodol ohono. Yr oedd y busnes arall yn ymwneud â chynigion heb ddyddiad trafod. Gellir deall bod y bobl a oedd wedi teithio o Abertawe a Wrecsam yn ddig am i’r Gweinidog ohirio’r union beth yr oeddent wedi teithio yma i’w weld. Yna, gorffennodd y Cyfarfod Llawn yn gynnar, a oedd yn halen ar y briw. Fel trefnydd busnes Plaid Cymru, nid ymgynghorwyd â mi ynglŷn â’r gohirio hwn, a ddisgrifiwyd heddiw fel digwyddiad anffodus gan y Gweinidog dros yr Amgylchedd. Yr oedd Aelodau Plaid Cymru wedi disgwyl i Gyfarfod Llawn ddydd Mawrth barhau tan o leiaf 6 p.m. Yr ydym yn haeddu eglurhad a hoffem wybod pryd y caiff y ddadl ei haildrefnu.

Dafydd Elis-Thomas The Presiding Officer spoken in English p. 29

Dafydd Elis-Thomas Y Llywydd siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 29

Order. This is not a matter for me. The order of business is a matter for the Business Committee, according to proposals made by the Minister for Assembly Business. The debate had been scheduled for Tuesday, but an indication was given at the close of business that it would be rescheduled. I assume that that will happen.

Trefn. Nid mater i mi yw hyn. Mater i’r Pwyllgor Busnes yw trefn y busnes, yn unol â’r cynigion a wneir gan y Trefnydd. Trefnwyd y ddadl ar gyfer dydd Mawrth, ond awgrymwyd ar ddiwedd y Cyfarfod Llawn y câi ei haildrefnu. Tybiaf y bydd hynny yn digwydd.

Andrew Davies spoken in English p. 29

Andrew Davies siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 29

I can understand Jocelyn wanting to make political capital out of this. I gave a full explanation at the end of Plenary on Tuesday, as the Presiding Officer knows. Business had already gone beyond 5 p.m. and there was the possibility of extending Plenary until 6 p.m. However, more than one item of business remained and, having consulted Sue Essex, we thought it inappropriate to allow limited time for such an important issue. I gave a commitment on Tuesday that I would reschedule the debate as soon as possible, which I am confident will be next Thursday. I apologised to the people who had travelled from north Wales, as it was something that the First Minister and I regretted, as we indicated at the time. Unfortunately, because of Tuesday’s discussion on the international situation, there was insufficient time to hold the debate on the waste strategy. My commitment stands and I will schedule the debate, if possible, for next Thursday.

Deallaf fod Jocelyn am elwa’n wleidyddol ar hyn. Rhoddais eglurhad llawn ar ddiwedd y Cyfarfod Llawn ddydd Mawrth, fel y gŵyr y Llywydd. Yr oedd y busnes eisoes wedi mynd y tu hwnt i 5 p.m. ac yr oedd posibilrwydd o ymestyn y Cyfarfod Llawn hyd 6 p.m. Fodd bynnag, yr oedd mwy nag un eitem o fusnes yn weddill ac, wedi ymgynghori â Sue Essex, tybiasom ei bod yn amhriodol caniatáu cyn lleied o amser ar gyfer mater mor bwysig. Rhoddais ymrwymiad ddydd Mawrth y byddwn yn aildrefnu’r ddadl cyn gynted â phosibl, ac yr wyf yn hyderus mai dydd Iau nesaf fydd hynny. Ymddiheurais i’r bobl a oedd wedi teithio o ogledd Cymru, am ei fod yn rhywbeth yr oeddwn i a’r Prif Weinidog yn edifar amdano, fel y nodwyd gennym ar y pryd. Yn anffodus, oherwydd trafodaethau dydd Mawrth ar y sefyllfa ryngwladol, nid oedd digon o amser i gynnal y ddadl ar y strategaeth wastraff. Erys fy ymrwymiad, a byddaf yn trefnu’r ddadl, os yn bosibl, ar gyfer dydd Iau nesaf.

William Graham spoken in English p. 29

William Graham siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 29

Further to that point of order, this makes a nonsense of the Business Committee and of representations made to the Minister. I made representations to the Minister because, having seen the draft agenda for last Tuesday, it was clear that we would not get through all of the business. It was suggested, therefore, that the debate on the waste strategy should be scheduled for another day, when people would not be inconvenienced and the matter could be discussed properly. What happened on Tuesday was an insult to the Assembly and to the people of Wales. Business was not correctly itemised or held. There is a great deal of feeling throughout Wales, and it is the Assembly that has come off worst.

Ymhellach i’r pwynt hwnnw o drefn, mae hyn yn gwneud y Pwyllgor Busnes a’r sylwadau a wnaethpwyd i’r Gweinidog yn ddiwerth. Gwneuthum sylwadau i’r Gweinidog oherwydd, ar ôl gweld yr agenda drafft ar gyfer dydd Mawrth diwethaf, yr oedd yn amlwg na fyddem yn llwyddo i drafod yr holl fusnes. Awgrymwyd, felly, y dylai’r ddadl ar y strategaeth wastraff gael ei haildrefnu ar gyfer diwrnod arall, pan fyddai’n fwy cyfleus i bawb ac y gellid trafod y mater yn iawn. Yr oedd yr hyn a ddigwyddodd ddydd Mawrth yn sarhad ar y Cynulliad ac ar bobl Cymru. Ni threfnwyd ac ni chynhaliwyd busnes yn gywir. Mae teimladau cryf iawn ledled Cymru, a’r Cynulliad sydd wedi dioddef fwyaf.

Dafydd Elis-Thomas The Presiding Officer spoken in English p. 30

Dafydd Elis-Thomas Y Llywydd siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 30

As far as the taking of business is concerned, once the agenda is agreed by the Business Committee, and, in this case, it was further agreed by the Assembly through a procedural motion, I am entirely in the hands of the Assembly. I am as concerned as all Assembly Members are about taking business in a timely fashion. Along with the Assembly review of procedures, perhaps it is time for us to reconsider the 5.30 p.m. cut-off point for Tuesday Plenary sessions. I am not raising that in a spirit of confrontation. I do not want to hear cheering. We must consider it carefully.

O ran trafod busnes, unwaith y cytunir ar yr agenda gan y Pwyllgor Busnes ac, yn yr achos hwn, fe’i cytunwyd ymhellach gan y Cynulliad drwy gynnig trefniadol, yr wyf yn gyfan gwbl yn nwylo’r Cynulliad. Mae yr un mor bwysig i mi â phob Aelod o’r Cynulliad ein bod yn trafod busnes yn amserol. Ynghyd ag adolygiad y Cynulliad o drefniadaeth, efallai ei bod yn bryd inni ailystyried 5.30 p.m. fel amser gorffen ar gyfer Cyfarfodydd Llawn dydd Mawrth. Nid wyf yn codi’r pwynt hwnnw er mwyn achosi gwrthdaro. Nid wyf am glywed cymeradwyaeth. Rhaid inni ei ystyried yn ofalus.

Rhodri Glyn Thomas spoken in English p. 30

Rhodri Glyn Thomas siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 30

Further to that point of order, the Minister for Assembly Business might have misled the Assembly by giving the impression that he consulted the Minister for Environment on this issue. I recall the Minister for Environment stating categorically in Committee yesterday that she was unhappy with the decision to postpone this debate—

Ymhellach i’r pwynt hwnnw o drefn, efallai y bu i’r Trefnydd gamarwain y Cynulliad drwy roi’r argraff ei fod wedi ymgynghori â’r Gweinidog dros yr Amgylchedd ar y mater hwn. Cofiaf i’r Gweinidog dros yr Amgylchedd nodi’n bendant mewn cyfarfod o’r Pwyllgor ddoe ei bod yn anfodlon ar y penderfyniad i ohirio’r ddadl hon—

Dafydd Elis-Thomas The Presiding Officer spoken in English p. 30

Dafydd Elis-Thomas Y Llywydd siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 30

Order. I ask you to reconsider your comment that the Minister for Assembly Business misled the Assembly. That is a serious accusation. I did not hear him do anything of the sort.

Trefn. Gofynnaf ichi ailystyried eich sylw bod y Trefnydd wedi camarwain y Cynulliad. Mae hynny yn gyhuddiad difrifol. Ni chlywais ef yn gwneud dim o’r fath.

Rhodri Glyn Thomas spoken in English p. 30

Rhodri Glyn Thomas siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 30

I was seeking clarification on whether he misled the Assembly. If he has, I want to give him the opportunity to reconsider what he said.

Yr oeddwn yn chwilio am eglurhad ynghylch a yw wedi camarwain y Cynulliad. Os ydyw, yr wyf am roi’r cyfle iddo ailystyried yr hyn a ddywedodd.

Dafydd Elis-Thomas The Presiding Officer spoken in English p. 31

Dafydd Elis-Thomas Y Llywydd siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 31

Order. I know Members have had a long recess, but you have come here this morning to try to use points of order as a means for scoring political points. That is only legitimate up to a point.

Trefn. Gwn fod yr Aelodau wedi cael toriad hir, ond daethoch yma y bore yma i geisio defnyddio pwyntiau o drefn fel modd i sgorio pwyntiau gwleidyddol. Dim ond i ryw raddau y mae hynny yn dderbyniol.

Phil Williams spoken in English p. 31

Phil Williams siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 31

I raise a point of order under Standing Order No. 18.1. On page 45 of the Record on 16 October 2001, the First Minister claimed that I calculated an arithmetical sum incorrectly and that the underspend figure was £252 million, not £272 million. In the Cabinet statement on 10 July 2001, Edwina Hart specifically referred to the underspend of £272.3 million. I am well aware that this includes four elements, not all of which are eligible for end year flexibilities, although no combination adds up to £252 million. However, in order to be consistent with the Minister’s statement and with what I have previously stated, I quoted the total underspend correctly. I want to correct any suggestion that I deliberately misquoted the figure in the Assembly.

Codaf bwynt o drefn o dan Reol Sefydlog Rhif 18.1. Ar dudalen 45 o’r Cofnod ar 16 Hydref 2001, honnodd y Prif Weinidog fy mod wedi cyfrifo swm mathemategol yn anghywir ac mai swm y tanwario oedd £252 miliwn, nid £272 miliwn. Yn natganiad y Cabinet ar 10 Gorffennaf 2001, cyfeiriodd Edwina Hart yn benodol at y tanwariant o £272.3 miliwn. Yr wyf yn llwyr ymwybodol bod hyn yn cynnwys pedair elfen, ac nad yw pob un ohonynt yn gymwys ar gyfer hyblygrwydd diwedd blwyddyn, er nad oes unrhyw gyfuniad yn dod i gyfanswm o £252 miliwn. Fodd bynnag, er mwyn bod yn gyson â datganiad y Gweinidog a’r hyn a ddatganwyd gennyf yn flaenorol, dyfynnais gyfanswm y tanwariant yn gywir. Hoffwn gywiro unrhyw awgrym fy mod wedi camddyfynnu’r ffigur yn fwriadol yn y Cynulliad.

Dafydd Elis-Thomas The Presiding Officer spoken in English p. 31

Dafydd Elis-Thomas Y Llywydd siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 31

Order. As far as my responsibilities are concerned, the Record is correct.

Trefn. O ran fy nghyfrifoldebau i, mae’r Cofnod yn gywir.

Edwina Hart The Minister for Finance, Local Government and Communities spoken in English p. 31

Edwina Hart Y Gweinidog dros Gyllid, Llywodraeth Leol a Chymunedau siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 31

There are some discussions taking place about the underspend position. I may have misled the First Minister by indicating my understanding of the £252 million underspend, in relation to the Assembly’s departmental expenditure limits, to which the First Minister referred.

Mae rhai trafodaethau ar y gweill ynglŷn â’r sefyllfa o ran tanwario. Efallai fy mod wedi camarwain y Prif Weinidog drwy nodi sut yr wyf i’n deall y £252 miliwn o danwariant, mewn perthynas â chyfyngiadau gwariant adrannol y Cynulliad, y cyfeiriodd y Prif Weinidog ato.

Dafydd Elis-Thomas The Presiding Officer spoken in English p. 31

Dafydd Elis-Thomas Y Llywydd siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 31

I am grateful for that information.

Yr wyf yn ddiolchgar am y wybodaeth honno.

Alun Pugh spoken in English p. 31

Alun Pugh siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 31

Point of order. I do not want to embarrass you, but when you mentioned the possibility of reviewing the 5.30 p.m. finish for Tuesday Plenary sessions, I noticed that there were cheers all around the Chamber. Will you ask the Business Committee to reconsider this absurd restriction on our business? Although nobody wants to work the absurd hours of Parliament, there is a strong case for working beyond 5.30 p.m., if the pressure of business dictates that.

Pwynt o drefn. Nid wyf am godi cywilydd arnoch, ond pan y bu ichi sôn am y posibilrwydd o adolygu 5.30 p.m. fel amser gorffen ar gyfer Cyfarfodydd Llawn dydd Mawrth, sylwais fod cymeradwyaeth drwy’r Siambr gyfan. A ofynnwch i’r Pwyllgor Busnes ailystyried y cyfyngiad afresymol hwn ar ein busnes? Er nad oes neb am weithio oriau afresymol y Senedd, mae achos cryf dros weithio y tu hwnt i 5.30 p.m., os yw pwysau’r busnes yn mynnu hynny.

Dafydd Elis-Thomas The Presiding Officer spoken in English p. 32

Dafydd Elis-Thomas Y Llywydd siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 32

Perhaps I should not have referred to this matter as I did. The discussion about the timing of proceedings relates to the current Assembly review of procedures. The draft report is not yet complete and we have not reached a conclusion on this. We might bring the matter back before the Assembly with the arguments for and against amending Standing Orders. It has been pointed out to me—and this was a new point—that what might be considered as family-friendly working hours for south-east Wales, might not be family-friendly for those who live in other parts of Wales. I understand this point of view.

Efallai na ddylwn fod wedi cyfeirio at y mater hwn fel y gwneuthum. Mae’r drafodaeth ynglŷn ag amseru trefniadaeth yn ymwneud ag adolygiad presennol y Cynulliad o drefniadaeth. Nid yw’r adroddiad drafft yn gyflawn eto ac nid ydym wedi dod i benderfyniad ar hyn. Efallai y deuwn â’r mater gerbron y Cynulliad unwaith eto gyda’r dadleuon dros ac yn erbyn diwygio’r Rheolau Sefydlog. Dywedwyd wrthyf—ac yr oedd hwn yn bwynt newydd—efallai nad yw’r hyn a ystyrir yn oriau gwaith ystyriol o deuluoedd yn ne-ddwyrain Cymru, yn oriau gwaith sy’n ystyriol o deuluoedd ar gyfer pobl sy’n byw mewn rhannau eraill o Gymru. Deallaf y safbwynt hwnnw.

Helen Mary Jones spoken in English p. 32

Helen Mary Jones siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 32

Further to that point of order, and accepting that this is subject to review, I remind the Assembly that the original proposals about working hours were subject to wide public consultation throughout Wales by the National Assembly Advisory Group. I remind the Assembly that the issue of family-friendly hours—or, as I prefer to call them, sensible working hours—is not so much about the impact on the lives of Members, as most of us continue working after 6 p.m., but about the impact on the lives of staff. We should bear that in mind.

Ymhellach i’r pwynt hwnnw o drefn, ac o dderbyn bod hyn yn destun adolygiad, atgoffaf y Cynulliad bod y cynigion gwreiddiol ynglŷn ag oriau gwaith yn amodol ar ymgynghori cyhoeddus eang ledled Cymru gan Grŵp Ymgynghorol y Cynulliad Cenedlaethol. Atgoffaf y Cynulliad nad yw’r mater o oriau sy’n ystyriol o deuluoedd—neu, oriau gwaith synhwyrol fel yr hoffaf fi eu galw—yn ymwneud yn gymaint â’r effaith ar fywydau Aelodau, gan fod y rhan fwyaf ohonom yn parhau i weithio ar ôl 6 p.m., ond yn hytrach yn ymwneud yn fwy â’r effaith ar fywydau’r staff. Dylem gofio hynny.

Dafydd Elis-Thomas The Presiding Officer spoken in English p. 32

Dafydd Elis-Thomas Y Llywydd siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 32

For personal reasons and reasons concerning my office, I always bear in mind the welfare of National Assembly staff, particularly staff such as those of the Record of Proceedings, who must work late when we do, along with all the other staff in this building. Of course, we should consider them. The National Assembly Advisory Group was constituted by the former Welsh Office. The National Assembly has been in existence for more than two years and we must now decide what is appropriate in the current context. I say that without taking anything from the gallant work of NAAG, some of whose members are here today.

Am resymau personol a rhesymau yn ymwneud â’m swyddfa i, byddaf bob amser yn cadw lles staff y Cynulliad Cenedlaethol mewn cof, yn arbennig staff Cofnod y Trafodion, sy’n gorfod gweithio’n hwyr pan fyddwn ni’n gwneud hynny, ynghyd â’r holl staff eraill yn yr adeilad hwn. Wrth gwrs, dylem eu hystyried hwy. Lluniwyd Grŵp Ymgynghorol y Cynulliad Cenedlaethol gan yr hen Swyddfa Gymreig. Mae’r Cynulliad Cenedlaethol wedi bodoli ers dros ddwy flynedd a dylem yn awr benderfynu beth sy’n briodol yn y cyd-destun presennol. Dywedaf hynny heb dynnu oddi ar waith ardderchog y Grŵp Ymgynghorol, y mae rhai o’i aelodau yma heddiw.

Nick Bourne spoken in English p. 33

Nick Bourne siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 33

I was a member of NAAG. I do not wish to prolong the debate, but I want to remind Helen Mary that NAAG’s recommendation was that we did not normally continue beyond 6.00 p.m.

Yr oeddwn i yn aelod o’r Grŵp Ymgynghorol. Nid wyf am ymestyn y ddadl, ond hoffwn atgoffa Helen Mary Jones mai argymhelliad y Grŵp Ymgynghorol oedd na fyddwn fel arfer yn parhau y tu hwnt i 6.00 p.m.

Cynnig Trefniadol

Procedural Motion

Andrew Davies The Minister for Assembly Business spoken in English p. 33

Andrew Davies Y Trefnydd siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 33

I propose that

Cynigiaf fod

Cynnig trefniadol Andrew Davies t. 33

Procedural motion Andrew Davies p. 33

DerbyniwydAdopted O blaidFor 48 YmatalAbstain 0 Yn erbynAgainst 0

Derbyniwyd y cynnig.

Motion carried.

Sut y pleidleisiodd yr AelodauHow Members voted
O blaidFor (48)
  • Lorraine Barrett
  • Mick Bates
  • Peter Black
  • Nick Bourne
  • Rosemary Butler
  • Alun Cairns
  • Cynog Dafis
  • Andrew Davies
  • David Davies
  • Geraint Davies
  • Glyn Davies
  • Janet Davies
  • Jocelyn Davies
  • Ron Davies
  • Richard Edwards
  • Sue Essex
  • Michael German
  • Brian Gibbons
  • William Graham
  • John Griffiths
  • Christine Gwyther
  • Brian Hancock
  • Edwina Hart
  • Jane Hutt
  • Ann Jones
  • Carwyn Jones
  • Gareth Jones
  • Helen Mary Jones
  • Ieuan Wyn Jones
  • Peter Law
  • Huw Lewis
  • David Lloyd
  • Val Lloyd
  • David Melding
  • Tom Middlehurst
  • Jonathan Morgan
  • Rhodri Morgan
  • Lynne Neagle
  • Alun Pugh
  • Jenny Randerson
  • Peter Rogers
  • Janet Ryder
  • Karen Sinclair
  • Gwenda Thomas
  • Owen John Thomas
  • Rhodri Glyn Thomas
  • Dafydd Wigley
  • Phil Williams

Datganiad gan y Llywydd

Statement by the Presiding Officer

Dafydd Elis-Thomas Y Llywydd siaradwyd yn Gymraeg t. 34

Dafydd Elis-Thomas The Presiding Officer spoken in Welsh p. 34

I sicrhau na fydd unrhyw amwysedd yn y dyfodol, nid wyf yn caniatáu derbyn gwelliannau i gynigion heb ddyddiad trafod os nad ydynt wedi eu cyflwyno o leiaf awr cyn dechrau’r Cyfarfod Llawn pan fyddwn yn trafod y cynnig hwnnw. Mae hyn er mwyn sicrhau bod amser digonol ar gael ar gyfer ystyried y gwelliant.

In order to avoid any future ambiguity, I do not allow amendments to no-named day motions to be accepted unless they have been tabled at least an hour before the start of the Plenary session in which that motion is to be debated. This is to ensure that there is sufficient time for the amendment to be considered.

Deddf Cysylltiadau Hiliol (Diwygio) 2000

The Race Relations (Amendment) Act 2000

Edwina Hart The Minister for Finance, Local Government and Communities spoken in English p. 34

Edwina Hart Y Gweinidog dros Gyllid, Llywodraeth Leol a Chymunedau siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 34

I propose that

Cynigiaf fod

Edwina Hart The Minister for Finance, Local Government and Communities (continued) spoken in English p. 34

Edwina Hart Y Gweinidog dros Gyllid, Llywodraeth Leol a Chymunedau (parhad) siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 34

the National Assembly for Wales, acting under section 62(1)(b) of the Government of Wales Act 1998, resolves to delegate all the functions of the National Assembly contained in or under the Race Relations (Amendment) Act 2000 to the Assembly First Minister save those which by law can not be so delegated. (NNDM789)

Cynulliad Cenedlaethol Cymru, gan weithredu o dan adran 62(1)(b) o Ddeddf Llywodraeth Cymru 1998, yn penderfynu dirprwyo i Brif Weinidog y Cynulliad holl swyddogaethau’r Cynulliad Cenedlaethol yn neu o dan Ddeddf Cysylltiadau Hiliol (Diwygio) 2001 ac eithrio’r rhai hynny na ellir yn ôl y gyfraith eu dirprwyo yn y modd hwnnw. (NNDM789)

the National Assembly for Wales, in accordance with the provisions of Standing Order No. 24 and in exercise of its powers under section 71B(3) of the Race Relations Act 1976 (as amended by the Race Relations (Amendment) Act 2000) consents to the Secretary of State for Home Affairs making in the exercise of his powers under section 71(2) and (3) of the Race Relations Act 1976 (as amended by the Race Relations (Amendment) Act 2000), the Race Relations Act 1976 (Statutory Duties) Order 2001. (NNDM788)

Cynulliad Cenedlaethol Cymru, yn unol â darpariaethau Rheol Sefydlog Rhif 24 ac wrth arfer ei bwerau o dan adran 71B(3) Deddf Cysylltiadau Hiliol 1976 (fel y’i diwygiwyd gan Ddeddf Cysylltiadau Hiliol (Diwygio) 2000) yn caniatáu i’r Ysgrifennydd Gwladol dros Faterion Cartref, wrth arfer ei bwerau o dan adrannau 71(2) a (3) Deddf Cysylltiadau Hiliol 1976 (fel y’i diwygiwyd gan Ddeddf Cysylltiadau Hiliol (Diwygio) 2000), wneud Gorchymyn Deddf Cysylltiadau Hiliol 1976 (Dyletswydd Statudol Cyffredinol) 2001. (NNDM788)

The Race Relations (Amendment) Act 2000, which came into force on 2 April 2001, extended the Race Relations Act 1976, to include not only the police, but other public functions and authorities not previously covered by the law. We have had extensive discussions in the Committee on Equality of Opportunity on the Race Relations (Amendment) Act 2000. I am pleased that all parties have been positive about its implementation and the need to ensure that all public bodies in Wales understand its full implication. The need for new, strengthened legislation to deal with race equality was clearly identified in the 1999 Macpherson report following the inquiry into the death of Stephen Lawrence. The report stressed that,

Ehangodd Deddf Cysylltiadau Hiliol (Diwygio) 2000, a ddaeth i rym ar 2 Ebrill 2001, Ddeddf Cysylltiadau Hiliol 1976, i gynnwys nid yn unig yr heddlu, ond swyddogaethau ac awdurdodau cyhoeddus eraill nad oedd y gyfraith yn eu cwmpasu cyn hynny. Cawsom drafodaethau eang yn y Pwyllgor Cyfle Cyfartal ar Ddeddf Cysylltiadau Hiliol (Diwygio) 2000. Yr wyf yn falch i bob plaid fod yn gadarnhaol ynghylch ei gweithredu a’r angen i sicrhau bod pob corff cyhoeddus yng Nghymru yn deall ei heffaith lawn. Nodwyd yr angen am ddeddfwriaeth newydd, gryfach i ymdrin â chydraddoldeb hiliol yn glir yn adroddiad Macpherson 1999 ar ôl yr ymchwiliad i farwolaeth Stephen Lawrence. Pwysleisiodd yr adroddiad,

‘If racism is to be eliminated from our society there must be a co-ordinated effort to prevent its growth.’

This Order proposes to add some 300 new entries to Schedule 1A. It will also remove the entry for one body, the licensing planning committees, as they are now obsolete. It will amend the entry for probation committees, as they have now become local probation boards.

Mae’r Gorchymyn hwn yn cynnig ychwanegu tua 300 o eitemau newydd i Atodlen 1A. Bydd hefyd yn dileu’r eitem ar gyfer un corff, y pwyllgorau cynllunio trwyddedu, gan eu bod bellach wedi darfod. Bydd yn diwygio’r eitem ar gyfer pwyllgorau prawf, gan eu bod bellach wedi eu disodli gan fyrddau prawf lleol.

Of the new bodies to be included in Schedule 1A, some are Welsh bodies, and others have cross-boundary responsibilities for England and Wales. The Home Office initiated an extensive consultation exercise earlier this year. Assembly Ministers and Welsh authorities responded positively to this. The Home Secretary proposes that the Order will come into force on 3 December 2001.

Ymysg y cyrff newydd i’w cynnwys yn Atodlen 1A, ceir rhai cyrff yng Nghymru, ac eraill â chyfrifoldebau traws-ffiniol dros Gymru a Lloegr. Cychwynnodd y Swyddfa Gartref ymarfer ymgynghori eang yn gynharach eleni. Ymatebodd Gweinidogion y Cynulliad ac awdurdodau Cymru yn gadarnhaol i hyn. Bwriad yr Ysgrifennydd Gwladol yw i’r Gorchymyn ddod i rym ar 3 Rhagfyr 2001.

The purpose of the second motion is to seek your agreement to the delegation of the functions contained in the Race Relations (Amendment) Act 2000 to the First Minister. This delegation will be made in the knowledge that those functions will be further delegated to appropriate Assembly Ministers, and, where necessary, to staff. The new Act makes several key changes. It makes race discrimination unlawful in public authority functions that were not previously covered by the Race Relations Act 1976. It also defines a ‘public authority’ widely for the purpose of outlawing race discrimination. The new Act places a general duty on specified public authorities to promote race equality. This is an important change and Members and organisation leaders must ensure that we deliver this duty. The Act provides the Secretary of State for Home Affairs with the power to extend the list of public bodies and include other bodies that exercise public functions. It also gives the Commission for Racial Equality the power to enforce the specific duties and the power to issue statutory codes of practice. These will provide practical guidance on how to fulfil the general and specific duties to promote race equality.

Mae’r ail gynnig yn gofyn ichi gytuno i ddirprwyo’r swyddogaethau a gynhwysir yn Neddf Cysylltiadau Hiliol (Diwygio) 2000 i Brif Weinidog Cymru. Dirprwyir y swyddogaethau hynny gyda’r ddealltwriaeth y caiff y swyddogaethau hynny eu dirprwyo ymhellach i Weinidogion priodol y Cynulliad, a, lle y bo’r angen, i staff. Gwna’r Ddeddf newydd sawl newid allweddol. Golyga y bydd gwahaniaethu ar sail hil yn anghyfreithlon o fewn swyddogaethau awdurdodau cyhoeddus nas cwmpaswyd gan Ddeddf Cysylltiadau Hiliol 1976. Mae hefyd yn diffinio ‘awdurdod cyhoeddus’ yn eang at ddiben gwahardd gwahaniaethu ar sail hil. Mae’r Ddeddf newydd yn gosod dyletswydd gyffredinol ar awdurdodau cyhoeddus penodol i hybu cydraddoldeb hiliol. Mae hyn yn newid pwysig a rhaid i’r Aelodau ac arweinwyr y sefydliadau sicrhau ein bod yn cyflawni’r ddyletswydd hon. Mae’r Ddeddf yn rhoi’r pŵer i’r Ysgrifennydd Gwladol dros Faterion Cartref ehangu’r rhestr o gyrff cyhoeddus a chynnwys cyrff eraill sy’n cyflawni swyddogaethau cyhoeddus. Rhydd hefyd y pŵer i’r Comisiwn Cydraddoldeb Hiliol orfodi’r dyletswyddau penodol a’r pŵer i gyhoeddi codau ymarfer statudol. Byddant yn darparu canllaw ymarferol ar sut i gyflawni’r dyletswyddau cyffredinol a phenodol i hybu cydraddoldeb hiliol.

There is a tremendous force behind this new law. Public bodies will be held to account for their actions. It is an important piece of legislation and a landmark in the Government’s approach to equality of opportunity.

Mae’r ddeddf newydd hon yn bwerus iawn. Bydd cyrff cyhoeddus yn atebol am eu gweithredoedd. Mae’n ddarn pwysig o ddeddfwriaeth ac yn drobwynt yn ymagwedd y Llywodraeth tuag at gyfleoedd cyfartal.

I now move on to the third motion. It is recommended that the Assembly consents to the Home Secretary making this Order, which will enforce specific duties on public authorities, public bodies or organisations that exercise a public function, in order to ensure better performance of the general duty. These specific duties would include ethnic monitoring or developing a race equality scheme. We all know that this, in itself, will not achieve equality. However, the commitment is necessary to work together with the aim of creating tolerant organisations where all people are developed to their full potential. These specific duties could at least raise awareness, not only of possible problems but, more positively, of opportunities that were previously unthought-of. All too often, potential remains untapped because it is unrecognised.

Symudaf ymlaen i’r trydydd cynnig. Argymhellir y dylai’r Cynulliad roi caniatâd i’r Ysgrifennydd Cartref wneud y Gorchymyn hwn, fydd yn gorfodi dyletswyddau penodol ar awdurdodau cyhoeddus, cyrff cyhoeddus neu sefydliadau sy’n cyflawni swyddogaeth gyhoeddus, er mwyn sicrhau gwell perfformiad o ran y ddyletswydd gyffredinol. Byddai’r dyletswyddau penodol hyn yn cynnwys monitro ethnig neu ddatblygu cynllun cydraddoldeb hiliol. Gŵyr pawb na fydd hyn, ynddo’i hun, yn cyflawni cydraddoldeb. Fodd bynnag, mae angen yr ymrwymiad i gydweithio gyda’r nod o greu sefydliadau goddefgar lle caiff pawb eu datblygu i’w llawn botensial. Gallai’r dyletswyddau penodol hyn godi ymwybyddiaeth o leiaf, nid yn unig o ran problemau posibl ond, yn fwy cadarnhaol, o gyfleoedd na chlywyd sôn amdanynt yn flaenorol. Yn rhy aml, erys potensial yn segur am na chaiff ei nodi.

Where authorities have cross-border responsibility within England and Wales, the Home Secretary is required to consult the National Assembly prior to making an Order. In the case of a Welsh public body or authority whose functions are exercised only in relation to Wales, the Home Secretary must seek the Assembly’s consent before making an Order. The bodies to whom this Order applies are clearly set out in schedule 1(a) of the Act. The specific duties to be introduced reflect the comments that were received by the Home Office, which are included in the consultation document ‘New Laws for a Successful Multi-racial Britain’.

Pan fo gan awdurdodau gyfrifoldeb traws-ffiniol yng Nghymru a Lloegr, mae’n ofynnol i’r Ysgrifennydd Cartref ymgynghori â’r Cynulliad Cenedlaethol cyn gwneud Gorchymyn. Yn achos corff cyhoeddus Cymreig neu awdurdod y cyflawnir eu swyddogaethau mewn perthynas â Chymru yn unig, rhaid i’r Ysgrifennydd Cartref gael caniatâd y Cynulliad cyn gwneud Gorchymyn. Nodir y cyrff y mae’r Gorchymyn hwn yn berthnasol iddynt yn glir yn atodlen 1(a) y Ddeddf. Mae’r dyletswyddau penodol sydd i’w cyflwyno yn adlewyrchu’r sylwadau a dderbyniwyd gan y Swyddfa Gartref, sydd wedi eu cynnwys yn y ddogfen ymgynghorol ‘New Laws for a Successful Multi-racial Britain’.

I commend the three motions to Members. They are a significant step towards tackling race discrimination. I trust that the National Assembly will support these delegations.

Cymeradwyaf y tri chynnig i’r Aelodau. Maent yn gam arwyddocaol tuag at fynd i’r afael â gwahaniaethu ar sail hil. Yr wyf yn siŵr y bydd y Cynulliad Cenedlaethol yn cefnogi’r achosion hyn o ddirprwyo.

Helen Mary Jones spoken in English p. 37

Helen Mary Jones siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 37

Plaid Cymru—The Party of Wales welcomes the Race Relations (Amendment) Act 2000 and supports the motions and the delegations. The responsibility on public bodies to be proactive in promoting race equality is long overdue. We look forward to monitoring the implementation of the Act in Wales, through the Committee on Equality of Opportunity. I urge the Government of Wales, in responding to the Home Secretary as he seeks to lay these duties on public bodies in Wales, to pay particular attention to the duties laid on education bodies. The opportunities that education bodies have to promote race equality—from training teachers to building equality into the curriculum to countering racial bullying and harassment—are legion, as are the challenges that they face in doing so. The Race Relations (Amendment) Act 2000 will provide those within the education community who wish to promote equality with additional ammunition. It will push race equality issues further up the agenda and build on existing initiatives and plans, including the Assembly’s programme to implement the report of the Stephen Lawrence inquiry.

Mae Plaid Cymru yn croesawu Deddf Cysylltiadau Hiliol (Diwygio) 2000 ac yn cefnogi’r cynigion a’r dirprwyo. Mae’n hen bryd gosod cyfrifoldeb ar gyrff cyhoeddus i fod yn broactif wrth hybu cydraddoldeb hiliol. Edrychwn ymlaen at fonitro’r gwaith o weithredu’r Ddeddf yng Nghymru, drwy’r Pwyllgor Cyfle Cyfartal. Pwysaf ar Lywodraeth Cymru, wrth ymateb i’r Ysgrifennydd Cartref wrth iddo geisio gosod y dyletswyddau hyn ar gyrff cyhoeddus yng Nghymru, i gymryd sylw arbennig o’r dyletswyddau ar gyrff addysgol. Mae’r cyfleoedd a gaiff cyrff addysgol i hybu cydraddoldeb hiliol—o hyfforddi athrawon i gynnwys cydraddoldeb o fewn y cwricwlwm i drechu bwlio ac aflonyddwch hiliol—yn ddi-rif, felly hefyd y sialensau sy’n eu hwynebu wrth wneud hynny. Bydd Deddf Cysylltiadau Hiliol (Diwygio) 2000 yn darparu arfogaeth ychwanegol i’r sawl o fewn y gymuned addysgol sy’n dymuno hybu cydraddoldeb. Bydd yn gwthio materion cydraddoldeb hiliol ymhellach i fyny’r agenda ac yn adeiladu ar fentrau a chynlluniau presennol, yn cynnwys rhaglen waith y Cynulliad i weithredu adroddiad ymchwiliad Stephen Lawrence.

The current charged climate in community relations makes the implementation of this Act particularly urgent and timely. I am sure that I do not have to press the Government of Wales to give priority to it.

Mae’r hinsawdd drydanol bresennol o ran cysylltiadau cymunedol yn golygu bod gweithredu’r Ddeddf hon yn arbennig o daer ac amserol. Yr wyf yn siŵr nad oes rhaid imi bwyso ar Lywodraeth Cymru i roi blaenoriaeth i hyn.

Christine Chapman spoken in English p. 38

Christine Chapman siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 38

All Members will welcome this amendment to the original Act. This is a relevant time for the Assembly to consider this legislation, given our concern that, in some quarters, the international situation will be used as a justification for racial abuse. The Act takes a much more proactive approach to tackling racism. The Assembly has a similar approach already. I pay tribute to the work of the Committee on Equality of Opportunity. The Committee has set a strong example for the people of Wales by acting proactively and coming up with practical ideas. The Committee is doing much good work.

Bydd pob Aelod yn croesawu’r diwygiad hwn i’r Ddeddf wreiddiol. Mae hon yn adeg berthnasol i’r Cynulliad ystyried y ddeddfwriaeth hon, o ystyried ein pryder, mewn rhai achosion, y caiff y sefyllfa ryngwladol ei defnyddio i gyfiawnhau cam-drin hiliol. Cymera’r Ddeddf ymagwedd llawer mwy proactif at drechu hiliaeth. Mae gan y Cynulliad ymagwedd debyg eisoes. Talaf deyrnged i waith y Pwyllgor Cyfle Cyfartal. Mae’r Pwyllgor wedi gosod esiampl gadarn i bobl Cymru drwy weithredu’n broactif a chyflwyno syniadau ymarferol. Mae’r Pwyllgor yn gwneud llawer o waith da.

Given the recent events in Bradford, Burnley and Oldham, this is an opportune moment to make this legislation. However, we must also remember that racism can be even more pronounced in areas where there are fewer black and ethnic minorities. The number of incidents of racial abuse is increasing at a faster rate in south Wales than anywhere else in the UK. We should not ignore that. I have been horrified by some of the stories of racial abuse that I have heard through my discussions with the Valleys Race Equality Council and people from the black and ethnic community in the Cynon Valley.

O ystyried y digwyddiadau diweddar yn Bradford, Burnley ac Oldham, mae yn awr yn adeg amserol i gyflwyno’r ddeddfwriaeth hon. Fodd bynnag, rhaid inni hefyd gofio y gall hiliaeth fod hyd yn oed yn fwy amlwg mewn ardaloedd lle ceir llai o leiafrifoedd du ac ethnig. Mae nifer yr achosion o gam-drin hiliol yn cynyddu ar gyfradd gyflymach yn ne Cymru nag unrhyw le arall yn y DU. Ni ddylem anwybyddu hynny. Cefais fy arswydo gan rai o’r straeon o gam-drin hiliol a glywais drwy fy nhrafodaethau â Chyngor Cydraddoldeb Hiliol y Cymoedd a phobl o’r gymuned ddu ac ethnig yng Nghwm Cynon.

We cannot afford to let our guard down. The new piece of legislation before us will not allow us to be complacent. It will begin to address attitudes and prejudice in Wales, and influence wider society. It will send out a clear message that racism will not be tolerated.

Ni allwn fforddio peidio â bod yn wyliadwrus. Ni fydd y darn newydd o ddeddfwriaeth ger ein bron yn ein galluogi i sefyll yn ein hunfan. Bydd yn dechrau mynd i’r afael ag agweddau a rhagfarn yng Nghymru, ac yn dylanwadu ar gymdeithas ehangach. Bydd yn anfon neges glir na chaiff hiliaeth ei goddef.

Eleanor Burnham spoken in English p. 39

Eleanor Burnham siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 39

The Welsh Liberal Democrats welcome this legislation. Simon Hughes, the Liberal Democrat principal spokesperson on home and legal affairs, recently welcomed its passage into UK law. The amendment of the Race Relations Act 1976 to extend its provisions to include the police and all other public bodies is long overdue. The Liberal Democrat Party is rooted in the principles of equality and freedom of opportunity and has long campaigned for more legislative action with regard to racial discrimination and ensuring that it is effectively combated.

Croesawa Democratiaid Rhyddfrydol Cymru y ddeddfwriaeth hon. Yn ddiweddar, croesawodd Simon Hughes, prif lefarydd y Democratiaid Rhyddfrydol ar faterion cartref a chyfreithiol, iddi gael ei derbyn i gyfraith y DU. Bu hir aros i Ddeddf Cysylltiadau Hiliol 1976 gael ei diwygio i ymestyn ei darpariaethau i gynnwys yr heddlu a phob corff cyhoeddus arall. Mae egwyddorion cydraddoldeb a rhyddid cyfle yn sail i Blaid y Democratiaid Rhyddfrydol ac mae wedi ymgyrchu’n helaeth dros gael mwy o gamau deddfwriaethol o ran gwahaniaethu ar sail hil a sicrhau y caiff ei drechu’n effeithiol.

Lord Callaghan, who, as Home Secretary, was responsible for the Race Relations Act 1976, subsequently admitted that omitting the police and other public bodies from that Act was a mistake. If they had been included in it, perhaps we would have better race relations in the UK than we do. Relations between ethnic minorities and the police would also be much better.

Ar ôl ei chyflwyno, cyfaddefodd yr Arglwydd Callaghan oedd, fel yr Ysgrifennydd Cartref, yn gyfrifol am Ddeddf Cysylltiadau Hiliol 1976, mai camgymeriad oedd hepgor yr heddlu a chyrff cyhoeddus eraill o’r Ddeddf honno. Petaent wedi’u cynnwys ynddi, efallai y byddai gennym gysylltiadau hiliol gwell yn y DU nag sydd ar hyn o bryd. Byddai cysylltiadau rhwng lleiafrifoedd ethnig a’r heddlu hefyd llawer yn well.

This legislation came about, sadly, as a result of the Macpherson report into Stephen Lawrence’s tragic death. It was one of the report’s main recommendations, and the Welsh Liberal Democrats are pleased to see that it has been implemented. We do not want to sound mealy-mouthed, but we must question why it took Stephen Lawrence’s death and the Macpherson report to amend the Race Relations Act. It has been a long time since 1976, and perhaps this is another question for members of the Conservative Party to ask themselves while soul-searching about their future. Why did they not amend the 1976 Act during their 18 years in government?

Lluniwyd y ddeddfwriaeth hon, trist dweud, o ganlyniad i adroddiad Macpherson i farwolaeth drychinebus Stephen Lawrence. Dyma oedd un o brif argymhellion yr adroddiad, ac mae Democratiaid Rhyddfrydol Cymru yn falch iddo gael ei weithredu. Nid ydym am swnio’n fursennaidd, ond rhaid inni ofyn pam y bu’n rhaid aros tan farwolaeth Stephen Lawrence ac adroddiad Macpherson cyn diwygio’r Ddeddf Cysylltiadau Hiliol. Mae cryn amser ers 1976, ac efallai fod hyn yn gwestiwn y dylai aelodau’r Blaid Geidwadol ofyn iddynt hwy eu hunain wrth ystyried eu dyfodol. Pam na ddiwygiwyd Deddf 1976 yn ystod eu 18 mlynedd o lywodraethu?

David Melding spoken in English p. 39

David Melding siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 39

The Welsh Conservative Party is pleased to support these measures. I regret some of the previous speaker’s remarks. This is not a general debate on equality, and in particular racial equality matters. If we were to have that debate, I would respond to some of her points in detail. I do not feel that those remarks reflect the Assembly’s views.

Mae’n bleser gan Blaid Geidwadol Cymru gefnogi’r mesurau hyn. Yr wyf yn edifar am rai o sylwadau’r siaradwr blaenorol. Nid dadl gyffredinol ar gydraddoldeb, ac yn arbennig ar faterion cydraddoldeb hiliol, yw hon. Pe bawn yn cynnal y ddadl honno, byddwn yn ymateb i rai o’i phwyntiau yn fanwl. Ni chredaf fod y sylwadau hynny’n adlewyrchu barn y Cynulliad.

The importance of these measures is that they will extend the number of public bodies that are required, under the Act, to provide a race equality scheme. I welcome that because it will require public bodies to have action plans to promote racial equality. That is a significant advance. We must remember that becoming a proper multi-cultural society takes an enormous amount of effort. It does not happen if you do not put your plans into action. I welcome these delegations because they will strengthen Wales and Britain as a proper multi-cultural society.

Pwysigrwydd y mesurau hyn yw y byddant yn cynyddu nifer y cyrff cyhoeddus y mae’n ofynnol iddynt, yn ôl y Ddeddf, ddarparu cynllun cydraddoldeb hiliol. Croesawaf hynny gan y bydd yn ofynnol i gyrff cyhoeddus gael cynlluniau gweithredu i hyrwyddo cydraddoldeb hiliol. Mae hynny’n ddatblygiad sylweddol. Rhaid inni gofio bod dod yn gymdeithas aml-ddiwylliant briodol yn gofyn am ymdrech sylweddol. Ni fydd yn digwydd oni weithredir eich cynlluniau. Croesawaf y dirprwyo hyn gan y bydd yn cryfhau Cymru a Phrydain fel cymdeithas aml-ddiwylliant briodol.

Edwina Hart The Minister for Finance, Local Government and Communities spoken in English p. 40

Edwina Hart Y Gweinidog dros Gyllid, Llywodraeth Leol a Chymunedau siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 40

I concur with David Melding’s comments. The delegations before us are technical and it is welcome. I also commend Helen Mary on the issues that she raised, particularly on education. The importance of implementing the Macpherson report in that area has been at the forefront of our discussions in the Committee on Equality of Opportunity.

Cytunaf â sylwadau David Melding. Mae’r achosion o ddirprwyo sydd ger ein bron yn dechnegol ac fe’u croesewir. Cymeradwyaf hefyd Helen Mary am y materion a gododd, yn enwedig ar addysg. Bu pwysigrwydd gweithredu adroddiad Macpherson yn y maes hwnnw yn amlwg yn ein trafodaethau yn y Pwyllgor Cyfle Cyfartal.

I am delighted that all parties welcome this motion, as I believe that the Race Relations (Amendment) Act 2000 will be a useful tool for dealing with these issues in Wales.

Yr wyf yn hynod falch fod pob plaid yn croesawu’r cynnig hwn, gan fy mod o’r farn y bydd Deddf Cysylltiadau Hiliol (Diwygio) 2000 yn offeryn defnyddiol ar gyfer mynd i’r afael â’r materion hyn yng Nghymru.

Dafydd Elis-Thomas The Presiding Officer spoken in English p. 40

Dafydd Elis-Thomas Y Llywydd siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 40

We will now vote on the first motion (NNDM790).

Pleidleisiwn yn awr ar y cynnig cyntaf (NNDM790).

Cynnig NNDM790 Edwina Hart t. 40

Motion NNDM790 Edwina Hart p. 40

DerbyniwydAdopted O blaidFor 50 YmatalAbstain 0 Yn erbynAgainst 0

Derbyniwyd y cynnig.

Motion carried.

Sut y pleidleisiodd yr AelodauHow Members voted
O blaidFor (50)
  • Lorraine Barrett
  • Mick Bates
  • Peter Black
  • Nick Bourne
  • Eleanor Burnham
  • Rosemary Butler
  • Alun Cairns
  • Christine Chapman
  • Cynog Dafis
  • Andrew Davies
  • David Davies
  • Geraint Davies
  • Janet Davies
  • Ron Davies
  • Richard Edwards
  • Sue Essex
  • Delyth Evans
  • Michael German
  • Brian Gibbons
  • Janice Gregory
  • John Griffiths
  • Christine Gwyther
  • Alison Halford
  • Edwina Hart
  • Jane Hutt
  • Ann Jones
  • Carwyn Jones
  • Elin Jones
  • Gareth Jones
  • Helen Mary Jones
  • Ieuan Wyn Jones
  • Peter Law
  • Huw Lewis
  • David Lloyd
  • Val Lloyd
  • David Melding
  • Tom Middlehurst
  • Jonathan Morgan
  • Rhodri Morgan
  • Lynne Neagle
  • Alun Pugh
  • Jenny Randerson
  • Peter Rogers
  • Janet Ryder
  • Karen Sinclair
  • Gwenda Thomas
  • Owen John Thomas
  • Rhodri Glyn Thomas
  • Dafydd Wigley
  • Phil Williams

Dafydd Elis-Thomas The Presiding Officer spoken in English p. 41

Dafydd Elis-Thomas Y Llywydd siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 41

We will now vote on the second motion (NNDM789).

Pleidleisiwn yn awr ar yr ail gynnig (NNDM789).

Cynnig NNDM790 Edwina Hart t. 41

Motion NNDM790 Edwina Hart p. 41

DerbyniwydAdopted O blaidFor 50 YmatalAbstain 0 Yn erbynAgainst 0

Derbyniwyd y cynnig.

Motion carried.

Sut y pleidleisiodd yr AelodauHow Members voted
O blaidFor (50)
  • Lorraine Barrett
  • Mick Bates
  • Peter Black
  • Nick Bourne
  • Eleanor Burnham
  • Rosemary Butler
  • Alun Cairns
  • Christine Chapman
  • Cynog Dafis
  • Andrew Davies
  • David Davies
  • Geraint Davies
  • Janet Davies
  • Ron Davies
  • Richard Edwards
  • Sue Essex
  • Delyth Evans
  • Michael German
  • Brian Gibbons
  • Janice Gregory
  • John Griffiths
  • Christine Gwyther
  • Alison Halford
  • Edwina Hart
  • Jane Hutt
  • Ann Jones
  • Carwyn Jones
  • Elin Jones
  • Gareth Jones
  • Helen Mary Jones
  • Ieuan Wyn Jones
  • Peter Law
  • Huw Lewis
  • David Lloyd
  • Val Lloyd
  • David Melding
  • Tom Middlehurst
  • Jonathan Morgan
  • Rhodri Morgan
  • Lynne Neagle
  • Alun Pugh
  • Jenny Randerson
  • Peter Rogers
  • Janet Ryder
  • Karen Sinclair
  • Gwenda Thomas
  • Owen John Thomas
  • Rhodri Glyn Thomas
  • Dafydd Wigley
  • Phil Williams

Dafydd Elis-Thomas The Presiding Officer spoken in English p. 42

Dafydd Elis-Thomas Y Llywydd siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 42

We will now vote on the third motion (NNDM788).

Pleidleisiwn yn awr ar y trydydd cynnig (NNDM788).

Cynnig NNDM790 Edwina Hart t. 42

Motion NNDM790 Edwina Hart p. 42

DerbyniwydAdopted O blaidFor 50 YmatalAbstain 0 Yn erbynAgainst 0

Derbyniwyd y cynnig.

Motion carried.

Sut y pleidleisiodd yr AelodauHow Members voted
O blaidFor (50)
  • Lorraine Barrett
  • Mick Bates
  • Peter Black
  • Nick Bourne
  • Eleanor Burnham
  • Rosemary Butler
  • Alun Cairns
  • Christine Chapman
  • Cynog Dafis
  • Andrew Davies
  • David Davies
  • Geraint Davies
  • Janet Davies
  • Ron Davies
  • Richard Edwards
  • Sue Essex
  • Delyth Evans
  • Michael German
  • Brian Gibbons
  • Janice Gregory
  • John Griffiths
  • Christine Gwyther
  • Alison Halford
  • Edwina Hart
  • Jane Hutt
  • Ann Jones
  • Carwyn Jones
  • Elin Jones
  • Gareth Jones
  • Helen Mary Jones
  • Ieuan Wyn Jones
  • Peter Law
  • Huw Lewis
  • David Lloyd
  • Val Lloyd
  • David Melding
  • Tom Middlehurst
  • Jonathan Morgan
  • Rhodri Morgan
  • Lynne Neagle
  • Alun Pugh
  • Jenny Randerson
  • Peter Rogers
  • Janet Ryder
  • Karen Sinclair
  • Gwenda Thomas
  • Owen John Thomas
  • Rhodri Glyn Thomas
  • Dafydd Wigley
  • Phil Williams

Daeth y Dirprwy Lywydd i’r Gadair am 10.20 a.m.

The Deputy Presiding Officer took the Chair at 10.20 a.m.

Cymeradwyo’r Gyllideb Ddrafft

Approval of the Draft Budget

John Marek The Deputy Presiding Officer spoken in English p. 43

John Marek Y Dirprwy Lywydd siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 43

I draw Members’ attention to the time. We have spent a lot of time on points of order and related matters. It is now 10.20 a.m. The notional time for the draft budget is two hours. We then have a notional time of one hour for the debate on establishing a design commission for Wales, and I must protect the time for the short debate. That means that, unless a change is made, the session will not end until 2.00 p.m. That cannot happen unless Members vote to do that. Seventeen Members wish to speak on the draft budget. Unless there are quick and efficient speeches, those 17 Members will not be able to speak. However, this is an important issue. I propose, Edwina, that you take up the half hour allocated to you for your speech. I understand that you will not be taking up the full half hour, for which I am grateful. Lead speakers from the three parties can take up to 10 minutes each—they have a right to do so. If you can cut your speeches down to eight minutes, I would, again, be grateful. Other speakers will have five minutes only in which to speak. I will cut off anybody who goes over that time, as there are so many Members who wish to speak.

Tynnaf sylw’r Aelodau at yr amser. Yr ydym wedi treulio llawer o amser ar bwyntiau o drefn a materion cysylltiedig. Mae hi’n 10.20 a.m. erbyn hyn. Yr amser tybiannol ar gyfer y gyllideb ddrafft yw dwy awr. Yna mae gennym amser tybiannol o awr ar gyfer y ddadl ar sefydlu comisiwn dylunio i Gymru, a rhaid imi ddiogelu’r amser ar gyfer y ddadl fer. Golyga hynny, oni wneir newid, na ddaw’r sesiwn i ben tan 2.00 p.m. Ni all hynny ddigwydd oni fydd yr Aelodau yn pleidleisio dros wneud hynny. Mae 17 o’r Aelodau yn dymuno siarad ar y gyllideb ddrafft. Oni cheir areithiau cyflym ac effeithlon, ni fydd yr 17 Aelod hynny yn gallu siarad. Fodd bynnag, mae hwn yn fater pwysig. Cynigiaf, Edwina, eich bod yn cymryd yr hanner awr a ddyrannwyd ichi ar gyfer eich araith. Deallaf na fyddwch yn cymryd yr hanner awr llawn, ac yr wyf yn ddiolchgar am hynny. Gall siaradwyr blaen o’r tair plaid gymryd hyd at 10 munud yr un—mae ganddynt hawl i wneud hynny. Os gallwch gadw eich areithiau i wyth munud, byddwn, unwaith eto, yn ddiolchgar. Bydd gan siaradwyr eraill bum munud yn unig i siarad. Byddaf yn rhoi terfyn ar unrhyw un sy’n mynd dros yr amser hwnnw, gan fod cymaint o’r Aelodau yn dymuno siarad.

I have selected amendments 1 and 2 in the name of Jocelyn Davies.

Yr wyf wedi dethol gwelliannau 1 a 2 yn enw Jocelyn Davies.

Edwina Hart The Minister for Finance, Local Government and Communities spoken in English p. 44

Edwina Hart Y Gweinidog dros Gyllid, Llywodraeth Leol a Chymunedau siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 44

I propose that

Cynigiaf fod

Edwina Hart The Minister for Finance, Local Government and Communities (continued) spoken in English p. 44

Edwina Hart Y Gweinidog dros Gyllid, Llywodraeth Leol a Chymunedau (parhad) siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 44

I am pleased to present the draft budget proposals for 2002-03 and 2003-04. Before turning to the details, I need to make several points to assist Members in considering these proposals.

Yr wyf yn falch o gyflwyno cynigion y gyllideb ddrafft ar gyfer 2002-03 a 2003-04. Cyn troi at y manylion, mae angen imi godi sawl pwynt i helpu’r Aelodau wrth iddynt ystyried y cynigion hyn.

This is effectively a two-year budget because 2002 is a comprehensive spending review year. The outcome of the spending review will condition the allocation of resources for 2004-05 and beyond. Therefore, for the purposes of this budget, baselines have been rolled forward flat for that year. I shall return to the spending review in a moment.

Yn y bôn, mae hon yn gyllideb ddwy flynedd gan fod 2002 yn flwyddyn adolygiad cynhwysfawr o wariant. Bydd canlyniad yr adolygiad o wariant yn pennu dyraniad yr adnoddau ar gyfer 2004-05 a thu hwnt. Felly, at ddibenion y gyllideb hon, cyflwynwyd gwaelodlinau yn wastad ar gyfer y flwyddyn honno. Byddaf yn dychwelyd at yr adolygiad o wariant mewn munud.

Accordingly, this year is not a spending review year and the scope for uplift in Assembly budgets within the departmental expenditure limit has been limited. However, we have looked closely at our priorities in the Welsh context and I have discussed these in depth with my Cabinet colleagues, taking account of the priorities identified by each Subject Committee. We propose to fund 35, and partially fund a further three, from a total of 45 of these priorities. However, it is delivery on our core public services that has been given top priority.

Yn unol â hynny, nid yw eleni yn flwyddyn adolygiad o wariant a chyfyngwyd ar y posibiliadau o wella cyllidebau’r Cynulliad o fewn terfyn y gwariant adrannol. Fodd bynnag, edrychwyd yn ofalus ar ein blaenoriaethau yng nghyd-destun Cymru ac fe’u trafodais yn fanwl gyda’m cyd-Aelodau yn y Cabinet, gan ystyried y blaenoriaethau a nodwyd gan bob Pwyllgor Pwnc. Cynigiwn ariannu 35, ac ariannu tair arall yn rhannol, o gyfanswm o 45 o’r blaenoriaethau hyn. Fodd bynnag, rhoddwyd y flaenoriaeth fwyaf i gyflwyno ein gwasanaethau cyhoeddus craidd.

This is the first budget to be presented on a resource basis. This is a complex subject, but essentially the changes will encourage us to focus more on resources consumed and not just on cash spent, as well as encouraging a greater emphasis on outputs. Prior to last year’s spending review, the Assembly received an increase in its budget to take account of these changes. I published details of the changes to the individual budget expenditure levels on 16 July. Assembly Members who wish to receive more detail about resource budgeting are welcome to contact me. I would be delighted to arrange briefings with my officials. The bulk of these changes remains classified as annually managed expenditure until after next year’s spending review. Therefore, the changes that I quote later exclude these adjustments.

Dyma’r gyllideb gyntaf i’w chyflwyno ar sail adnoddau. Mae hwn yn destun cymhleth, ond yn y bôn bydd y newidiadau yn ein hannog i ganolbwyntio yn fwy ar adnoddau a ddefnyddiwyd ac nid ar arian a wariwyd yn unig, yn ogystal ag annog mwy o bwyslais ar gynnyrch. Cyn yr adolygiad o wariant y llynedd, cynyddwyd cyllideb y Cynulliad er mwyn ystyried y newidiadau hyn. Cyhoeddais fanylion am y newidiadau i lefelau gwariant unigol y gyllideb ar 16 Gorffennaf. Mae croeso i Aelodau’r Cynulliad sy’n dymuno cael mwy o fanylion am gyllidebu adnoddau gysylltu â mi. Byddwn yn falch o drefnu cyfarfodydd briffio gyda’m swyddogion. Cofnodir y rhan fwyaf o’r newidiadau hyn o hyd fel gwariant a reolir yn flynyddol tan ar ôl adolygiad y flwyddyn nesaf o wariant. Felly, nid yw’r newidiadau a ddyfynnaf yn ddiweddarach yn cynnwys yr addasiadau hyn.

On a separate point, some of you early birds may have noticed in Hansard this morning that the Secretary of State for Wales yesterday confirmed that the Assembly would receive additional money. He did not differentiate between the financial years, but I understand that around £3.5 million is for this year and is consequent on additional money provided to some Whitehall departments to help mitigate the effects of the foot and mouth disease. That will be a welcome contribution to the funding for the rural recovery package. I will report the details of the additional resources to the Assembly when I announce in-year budget changes in December. There is also additional money for next year, and I will initially allocate that for the 2002-03 reserve. I have published a separate table showing how the commitments in the partnership agreement will be funded. That shows that we are fulfilling our funding commitments for this year. In addition, we have continued to take the targets in ‘Betterwales.com’ as a key reference point incorporating our three guiding principles of sustainable development, social inclusion and equal opportunities.

Ar bwynt gwahanol, efallai y sylwodd rhai ohonoch chi y boregodwyr yn Hansard y bore yma fod Ysgrifennydd Gwladol Cymru wedi cadarnhau ddoe y byddai’r Cynulliad yn cael arian ychwanegol. Ni wahaniaethodd rhwng y blynyddoedd ariannol, ond deallaf fod tua £3.5 miliwn ar gyfer eleni a hynny o ganlyniad i arian ychwanegol a ddarparwyd i rai adrannau yn Whitehall i’w helpu i leddfu effeithiau clwy’r traed a’r genau. Bydd hwnnw’n gyfraniad i’w groesawu tuag at yr arian ar gyfer y pecyn adfywio gwledig. Byddaf yn cyflwyno manylion yr adnoddau ychwanegol i’r Cynulliad pan gyhoeddaf y newidiadau i gyllideb eleni ym mis Rhagfyr. Mae arian ychwanegol ar gael ar gyfer y flwyddyn nesaf hefyd, ac i ddechrau byddaf yn dyrannu hwnnw ar gyfer cronfa 2002-03. Cyhoeddais dabl ar wahân yn dangos sut yr ariennir yr ymrwymiadau yn y cytundeb partneriaeth. Dengys hynny ein bod yn cyflawni ein hymrwymiadau ariannu ar gyfer eleni. Yn ogystal, yr ydym wedi parhau i ddefnyddio’r targedau yn ‘Gwellcymru.com’ fel pwynt cyfeirio allweddol sy’n ymgorffori ein tair egwyddor arweiniol sef datblygu cynaliadwy, cynhwysedd cymdeithasol a chyfle cyfartal.

Ieuan Wyn Jones a gododd—

Ieuan Wyn Jones rose—

Edwina Hart spoken in English p. 46

Edwina Hart siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 46

I do not intend to take interventions, as I have never done so during the main budget speech.

Ni fwriadaf dderbyn ymyriadau, gan nad wyf erioed wedi gwneud hynny yn ystod prif araith y gyllideb.

I turn to what I regard to be the key theme of my budget for this year—the urgent need to tackle the problem of underspending across all Assembly budgets.

Trof at yr hyn a ystyriaf yn thema allweddol fy nghyllideb ar gyfer eleni—yr angen dybryd i fynd i’r afael â phroblem tanwario ar draws holl gyllidebau’r Cynulliad.

Last year, the Assembly recorded the best performance of all the devolved administrations, as our underspend was only 3 per cent of the budget. That compares favourably with most Whitehall departments. However, we must do better. The people of Wales rightly expect better of us, and I am setting a medium-term target of reducing the underspend to 1 per cent of the budget. When last year’s underspend was added to cumulative underspends from previous years, we were left with some £383 million in cash. My proposals re-allocate much of this, as Members will see from the separate table published on end year flexibility. The proposals that I will later describe in detail include a mixture of recurrent and end year flexibility resources.

Y llynedd, cofnododd y Cynulliad y perfformiad gorau o’r holl weinyddiaethau datganoledig, gan mai dim ond 3 y cant o’r gyllideb a danwariwyd gennym. Mae hynny’n cymharu’n ffafriol â’r rhan fwyaf o adrannau Whitehall. Fodd bynnag, rhaid inni wneud yn well. Mae pobl Cymru yn iawn i ddisgwyl gwell gennym, ac yr wyf yn gosod targed tymor canolig o leihau’r tanwariant i 1 y cant o’r gyllideb. Pan ychwanegwyd tanwariant y llynedd at y tanwariant cronnol o flynyddoedd blaenorol, fe’n gadawyd gyda tua £383 miliwn mewn arian parod. Mae fy nghynigion yn ailddyrannu llawer o hyn, fel y gwêl yr Aelodau o’r tabl ar wahân a gyhoeddwyd ar hyblygrwydd diwedd y flwyddyn. Mae’r cynigion a ddisgrifiaf yn fanwl yn ddiweddarach yn cynnwys cymysgedd o adnoddau rheolaidd a hyblygrwydd diwedd y flwyddyn.

I have emphasised to my Cabinet colleagues that reducing underspends must be a top priority. This is also an external issue and we must do more with our partners to address it. Money must be spent properly and achieve value for money. However, it must be spent to profile and improve the delivery of public services in Wales.

Pwysleisiais i’m cyd-Aelodau yn y Cabinet fod yn rhaid i’r gwaith o leihau tanwariant fod yn flaenoriaeth uchel gennym. Mae hwn yn fater allanol hefyd a rhaid inni wneud mwy gyda’n partneriaid i fynd i’r afael ag ef. Rhaid gwario arian yn gywir a chael gwerth am arian. Fodd bynnag, rhaid ei wario i godi proffil a gwella’r modd y cyflwynir gwasanaethau cyhoeddus yng Nghymru.

The delivery of better hospitals and schools and more doctors and teachers depends upon our meeting this challenge. If we do not, it will make negotiations during the spending review next year even more difficult than they promise to be. We should be under no illusions; the spending review will not be an automatic cash bonanza, and, together with Paul Murphy, we will have to make our case well.

Mae cyflwyno ysbytai ac ysgolion gwell a mwy o feddygon ac athrawon yn dibynnu ar gyflawni’r her hon. Os na wnawn hynny, bydd y negodiadau yn ystod yr adolygiad o wariant y flwyddyn nesaf yn fwy anodd byth na’r disgwyl. Ni ddylem ein twyllo ein hunain mewn unrhyw ffordd; ni fydd yr adolygiad o wariant yn wythïen ariannol awtomatig, ac ynghyd â Paul Murphy, bydd yn rhaid inni gyflwyno ein dadl yn dda.

I now turn to each of the major expenditure groups that comprise my budget, beginning with health and social services. My budget gives the highest priority to the national health service, in line with the plan published in February 2001. It is right that we continue to do that. The baseline provision is already planned to receive a significant uplift in 2002-03 and in 2003-04. Although this is not a spending review year, I have added £33 million to the health budget for 2002-03 and £45 million in the following year.

Trof yn awr at bob un o’r prif grwpiau gwariant sydd yn fy nghyllideb, gan ddechrau gydag iechyd a gwasanaethau cymdeithasol. Mae fy nghyllideb yn rhoi’r flaenoriaeth uchaf i’r gwasanaeth iechyd gwladol, yn unol â’r cynllun a gyhoeddwyd ym mis Chwefror 2001. Mae’n briodol ein bod yn parhau i wneud hynny. Eisoes disgwylir i’r ddarpariaeth gwaelodlin dderbyn codiad sylweddol yn 2002-03 a 2003-04. Er nad yw hon yn flwyddyn adolygiad o wariant, ychwanegais £33 miliwn at y gyllideb iechyd ar gyfer 2002-03 a £45 miliwn yn y flwyddyn ganlynol.

These additions bring the real terms increases for health to 5.9 per cent in 2002-03 and 5.7 per cent in 2003-04, which amounts to total cash increases of £264 million and £277 million respectively.

Daw’r ychwanegiadau hyn â’r cynnydd mewn termau gwirioneddol ar gyfer iechyd i 5.9 y cant yn 2002-03 a 5.7 y cant yn 2003-04, sy’n gynnydd ariannol o £264 miliwn a £277 miliwn yn eu tro.

In addition, £40 million is available this year for capital projects in the national health service. Jane Hutt will be announcing the details of this package shortly. I have also agreed with Jane that the NHS should have a further £18 million next year and £22 million in 2003-04. This is a reprioritisation of resources that the Assembly has been unable to spend elsewhere and which we have carried forward from previous years. I have published a separate table to show how this allocation will be targeted. I have also agreed with the Minister for Health and Social Services that I will give careful consideration to providing capital resources for new hospital developments, particularly those at Porthmadog and in Rhondda.

Yn ogystal, mae £40 miliwn ar gael eleni ar gyfer prosiectau cyfalaf yn y gwasanaeth iechyd gwladol. Bydd Jane Hutt yn cyhoeddi manylion y pecyn hwn yn fuan. Cytunais hefyd â Jane y dylai’r NHS gael £18 miliwn arall y flwyddyn nesaf a £22 miliwn yn 2003-04. Ailflaenoriaethu adnoddau na lwyddodd y Cynulliad i’w gwario yn rhywle arall yw hyn ac a gariwyd ymlaen o flynyddoedd blaenorol. Cyhoeddais dabl ar wahân i ddangos sut y targedir y dyraniad hwn. Cytunais hefyd â’r Gweinidog dros Iechyd a Gwasanaethau Cymdeithasol y rhoddaf ystyriaeth ofalus i ddarparu adnoddau cyfalaf ar gyfer gwaith datblygu ysbytai newydd, yn arbennig ym Mhorthmadog ac yn y Rhondda.

In recognition of the importance of social services, I have provided an additional £10.3 million in 2002-03 and a further £13 million in the following two years. That includes provision for the Care Standards Inspectorate for Wales, elderly and long-term care, improved social work training and the national childcare strategy. In addition, I have made £500,000 available this year for children’s play and another £1 million for it next year. I am aware of the difficulties reported in the residential care and nursing home sector, and I have agreed to keep the position under active review with Jane Hutt.

Wrth gydnabod pwysigrwydd gwasanaethau cymdeithasol, darperais £10.3 miliwn ychwanegol yn 2002-03 a £13 miliwn arall yn y ddwy flynedd ganlynol. Mae hynny’n cynnwys darpariaeth ar gyfer Arolygiaeth Safonau Gofal Cymru, gofal i’r henoed a gofal hirdymor, gwell hyfforddiant ym maes gwaith cymdeithasol a’r strategaeth gofal plant genedlaethol. Yn ogystal, yr wyf wedi sicrhau bod £500,000 ar gael eleni ar gyfer chwarae plant a £1 miliwn ar ei gyfer y flwyddyn nesaf. Yr wyf yn ymwybodol o’r anawsterau a nodwyd yn y sector gofal preswyl a chartrefi nyrsio, a chytunais i adolygu’r sefyllfa yn rheolaidd gyda Jane Hutt.

This package will enable us to sustain and improve quality and performance management across the health and social services sectors. It also gives priority to the most vulnerable groups in our society, such as children, the elderly and the mentally ill.

Bydd y pecyn hwn yn ein galluogi i gynnal a gwella ansawdd a rheolaeth perfformiad ar draws y sectorau iechyd a gwasanaethau cymdeithasol. Mae hefyd yn rhoi’r flaenoriaeth i’r grwpiau mwyaf diamddiffyn yn ein cymdeithas, megis plant, yr henoed a’r rhai sydd â salwch meddwl.

I now turn to education and lifelong learning. We are committed to making Wales a learning country. Much has been done, but there is more to do. This year, I added a further £19 million to the education and lifelong learning budget for 2002-03 and nearly £28 million for the following two years. These allocations confirm our commitment to education across the range of provision, from early years to adult skills development.

Trof yn awr at addysg a dysgu gydol oes. Yr ydym yn ymrwymedig i wneud Cymru yn wlad sy’n dysgu. Gwnaethpwyd llawer, ond mae mwy i’w wneud. Eleni, ychwanegais £19 miliwn arall at y gyllideb addysg a dysgu gydol oes ar gyfer 2002-03 a bron £28 miliwn ar gyfer y ddwy flynedd ganlynol. Cadarnha’r dyraniadau hyn ein hymrwymiad i addysg ar draws yr ystod o ddarpariaeth, o’r blynyddoedd cynnar i ddatblygu sgiliau oedolion.

These additions bring the total real-terms year-on-year increases for education to 4.2 per cent in 2002-03 and 4 per cent in 2003-04. I have also set aside a reserve of £20 million for education and lifelong learning within my overall reserve provision.

Daw’r ychwanegiadau hyn â’r cynnydd fesul blwyddyn mewn termau gwirioneddol ar gyfer addysg i 4.2 y cant yn 2002-03 a 4 y cant yn 2003-04. Neilltuais gronfa o £20 miliwn hefyd ar gyfer addysg a dysgu gydol oes o fewn fy narpariaeth gyffredinol o ran cronfeydd wrth gefn.

The Assembly is considering issues of fundamental importance to our education system. We are carefully considering the recommendations of the Rees report on student hardship, and provision has been made in the reserve to meet the initial financial consequences over the next academic year. Ministers are considering the report’s recommendations, but we have already made a start on the Rees report by funding a 74 per cent increase in access funds from the beginning of this academic year, increasing the amount to £20 million. That funding is being maintained. That heralds a made-in-Wales solution, but it will also be important to monitor closely the Whitehall review of student financing that has trailed recently, as the financial consequences for the Assembly could be significant.

Mae’r Cynulliad yn ystyried materion sydd o bwys sylfaenol i’n system addysg. Yr ydym yn ystyried yn ofalus argymhellion adroddiad Rees ar galedi ymhlith myfyrwyr, a gwnaethpwyd darpariaeth yn y gronfa wrth gefn i dalu’r costau ariannol cychwynnol dros y flwyddyn academaidd nesaf. Mae Gweinidogion yn ystyried argymhellion yr adroddiad, ond eisoes dechreuasom weithredu ar adroddiad Rees drwy ariannu cynnydd o 74 y cant mewn arian mynediad o ddechrau’r flwyddyn academaidd hon, gan gynyddu’r swm i £20 miliwn. Parheir i ddarparu’r arian hwnnw. Mae hynny’n datgan ateb yn benodol i Gymru, ond bydd hefyd yn bwysig monitro adolygiad Whitehall o ariannu myfyrwyr a gyhoeddwyd yn ddiweddar, oherwydd gallai’r canlyniadau ariannol i’r Cynulliad fod yn sylweddol.

The Education and Lifelong Learning Committee is due to report later this autumn on the future of higher education in Wales. Jane Davidson will respond early next year to the partnership agreement’s commitment to produce an adequately funded development and expansion of higher education. We will consider the extent to which additional funds could be made available next year, not least in the context of the budget planning round process.

Mae disgwyl i’r Pwyllgor Addysg a Dysgu Gydol Oes gyflwyno adroddiad yn ddiweddarach yr hydref hwn ar ddyfodol addysg uwch yng Nghymru. Bydd Jane Davidson yn ymateb yn gynnar y flwyddyn nesaf i ymrwymiad y cytundeb partneriaeth i ddatblygu ac ehangu addysg uwch gan ariannu hynny’n ddigonol. Byddwn yn ystyried i ba raddau y gellid sicrhau arian ychwanegol ar gyfer y flwyddyn nesaf, yn bennaf yng nghyd-destun proses cylch cynllunio’r gyllideb.

Significant recurrent allocations are being provided in other areas such as lifelong learning, teacher recruitment and easing the administrative burden on schools. Jane Davidson will announce the details of that shortly. Further resources from end year flexibility—about £27 million over the next two years—are being provided for priorities such as capital projects in the higher education sector to improve our learning infrastructure, for teachers’ threshold pay and to extend support for teachers’ continuing professional development.

Darperir dyraniadau rheolaidd sylweddol mewn meysydd eraill megis dysgu gydol oes, recriwtio athrawon a lleddfu’r baich gweinyddol ar ysgolion. Bydd Jane Davidson yn cyhoeddi manylion hynny yn fuan. Darperir adnoddau pellach o hyblygrwydd diwedd y flwyddyn—tua £27 miliwn dros y ddwy flynedd nesaf—ar gyfer blaenoriaethau megis prosiectau cyfalaf yn y sector addysg uwch i wella ein seilwaith dysgu, ar gyfer tâl trothwy athrawon ac i roi mwy o gefnogaeth i ddatblygu proffesiynol athrawon.

I now turn to transport, planning and the environment. In my discussions with Sue Essex, it has been clear that problems with our transport infrastructure are reducing access to public services in parts of Wales, as well as limiting the scope for job creation and regeneration in many communities. We cannot put this right overnight, but we can make a start.

Trof yn awr at drafnidiaeth, cynllunio a’r amgylchedd. Yn ystod fy nhrafodaethau â Sut Essex, daeth yn eglur fod problemau gyda’n seilwaith trafnidiaeth yn lleihau mynediad i wasanaethau cyhoeddus mewn rhannau o Gymru, yn ogystal â chyfyngu ar y posibilrwydd o greu swyddi ac adfywiad mewn sawl cymuned. Ni allwn unioni’r sefyllfa hon dros nos, ond gallwn ddechrau ar y gwaith.

From end year flexibility, £25 million has been allocated for schemes to fund a programme of additional maintenance work on the local road network. That funding will be made available between now and March 2003 to help local authorities address the backlog in repairs and renewals on the network, particularly on priority routes and public transport corridors.

O hyblygrwydd diwedd y flwyddyn, dyrannwyd £25 miliwn ar gyfer cynlluniau i ariannu rhaglen o waith cynnal a chadw ychwanegol ar y rhwydwaith ffyrdd lleol. Bydd yr arian hwnnw ar gael rhwng nawr a Mawrth 2003 i helpu awdurdodau lleol i fynd i’r afael â’r ôl-groniad o waith atgyweirio ac adnewyddu ar y rhwydwaith, yn arbennig ar ffyrdd â blaenoriaeth a choridorau trafnidiaeth gyhoeddus.

The sum of £19 million has been allocated to ensure that three new major trunk road improvement schemes can commence by 2004, as well as to allow work to continue on other schemes in the forward programme. This funding stream stretches over the next 42 months and includes recurrent resources, as well as end year flexibility. In addition to allowing these major schemes to begin, it will allow additional traffic information signage to be installed on our most congested trunk road routes, and the completion of smaller improvement schemes. Also, £3 million has been set aside as further support for Wales’s public transport system. Sue Essex will shortly announce the full details.

Dyrannwyd y swm o £19 miliwn i sicrhau y gall y tri phrif gynllun gwella cefnffyrdd newydd ddechrau erbyn 2004, yn ogystal â chaniatáu i waith barhau ar gynlluniau eraill yn y flaenraglen. Mae’r ffrwd ariannu hon yn ymestyn dros y 42 mis nesaf ac yn cynnwys adnoddau rheolaidd, yn ogystal â hyblygrwydd diwedd y flwyddyn. Yn ogystal â chaniatáu i’r cynlluniau mawr hyn ddechrau, bydd yn caniatáu i arwyddion gwybodaeth traffig ychwanegol gael eu codi ar ein cefnffyrdd sydd â’r tagfeydd gwaethaf, ac i gynlluniau gwella llai gael eu cwblhau. Hefyd, neilltuwyd £3 miliwn i gefnogi system trafnidiaeth gyhoeddus Cymru ymhellach. Bydd Sue Essex yn cyhoeddi’r manylion llawn yn fuan.

Elsewhere in Sue’s portfolio, allocations have been made to fund the bus fuel duty rebate and concessionary fares. In line with the Assembly’s policy on sustainable development, £10 million has been allocated to implement the Wales waste strategy, which is primarily for local authorities. These measures will mean a real terms increase in the transport, planning and environment budget of 17.7 per cent next year and 8.7 per cent the following year.

Mewn mannau eraill ym mhortffolio Sue, gwnaethpwyd dyraniadau i ariannu’r ad-daliad toll tanwydd bysys a thocynnau teithio gostyngol. Yn unol â pholisi’r Cynulliad ar ddatblygu cynaliadwy, dyrannwyd £10 miliwn i weithredu strategaeth wastraff Cymru, sydd yn bennaf ar gyfer awdurdodau lleol. Bydd y mesurau hyn yn golygu cynnydd o 17.7 y cant mewn termau gwirioneddol yn y gyllideb trafnidiaeth, cynlluniau a’r amgylchedd y flwyddyn nesaf ac 8.7 y cant y flwyddyn ganlynol.

I now turn to economic development. In considering priorities in this area, I have been conscious of the ongoing work on the Government’s national economic development strategy. Indeed, a number of my proposals in other areas were heavily influenced by the development of the national economic development strategy, for example, the transport and the lifelong learning measures that I have outlined. Within the economic development main expenditure group, there has been a focus on allocating additional resources to support innovation, entrepreneurship and the growth of small companies, through the business birth rate strategy, for example.

Trof yn awr at ddatblygu economaidd. Wrth ystyried blaenoriaethau yn y maes hwn, bûm yn ymwybodol o’r gwaith sy’n mynd rhagddo ar strategaeth datblygu economaidd genedlaethol y Llywodraeth. Yn wir, dylanwadwyd yn drwm ar nifer o’m cynigion mewn meysydd eraill gan ddatblygiad y strategaeth datblygu economaidd genedlaethol, er enghraifft, y mesurau trafnidiaeth a dysgu gydol oes a amlinellais. O fewn y grŵp prif wariant ar ddatblygu economaidd, canolbwyntiwyd ar ddyrannu adnoddau ychwanegol i gefnogi dyfeisgarwch, entrepreneuraeth a thwf cwmnïau bach, drwy’r strategaeth cyfradd dechrau busnesau, er enghraifft.

We are also making a major investment in information and communications technology infrastructure, broadband, and associated developments, including those in support of the information age strategy that Andrew Davies presented to the Assembly on 3 July. For 2002-03, £26 million is being provided, rising to nearly £36 million for the following year. Most of that expenditure is allocated to economic development budgets, but it includes funding streams from elsewhere, including from education and culture. In addition, there is a further £18.4 million, from resources that have not been spent this year as originally planned, to fund broadband infrastructure.

Yr ydym hefyd yn buddsoddi’n sylweddol mewn technoleg gwybodaeth a chyfathrebu, seilwaith, band llydan a datblygiadau cysylltiedig, gan gynnwys y rhai sy’n ategu’r strategaeth oes gwybodaeth a gyflwynodd Andrew Davies i’r Cynulliad ar 3 Gorffennaf. Ar gyfer 2002-03, darperir £26 miliwn, gan godi i bron £36 miliwn ar gyfer y flwyddyn ganlynol. Dyrennir y rhan fwyaf o’r gwariant hwnnw i gyllidebau datblygu economaidd, ond mae’n cynnwys ffrydiau ariannu o fannau eraill, gan gynnwys addysg a diwylliant. Yn ogystal, mae £18.4 miliwn arall ar gael, o adnoddau nas gwariwyd eleni fel y cynlluniwyd yn wreiddiol, i ariannu seilwaith band llydan.

In other budgets, about £13 million from unspent resources has been allocated to the Welsh Development Agency, to accelerate the development of a number of strategic sites throughout Wales next year. A total of £2 million will be allocated to the Wales Tourist Board for additional marketing activity, as we are particularly aware of the serious impact that the foot and mouth disease outbreak has had on tourism, which has now been compounded by the recent terrorist incidents. The First Minister will announce the details shortly, but I will make one point. There is a reduction in the regional selective assistance budget to bring it into line with current expenditure levels, based on claims. However, that is of no operational consequence as the First Minister has given a firm commitment that no project will be refused for lack of grant resources. I reaffirm that today. Any consequential budgetary pressures arising will be met in-year.

Mewn cyllidebau eraill, dyrannwyd tua £13 miliwn o adnoddau nas gwariwyd i Awdurdod Datblygu Cymru, i gyflymu’r broses o ddatblygu nifer o safleoedd strategol ledled Cymru y flwyddyn nesaf. Dyrennir cyfanswm o £2 filiwn i Fwrdd Croeso Cymru ar gyfer gweithgaredd marchnata ychwanegol, gan ein bod yn ymwybodol iawn o’r effaith ddifrifol a gafodd clwy’r traed a’r genau ar dwristiaeth, sydd wedi dwysáu yn ddiweddar yn sgîl y digwyddiadau terfysgol. Bydd Prif Weinidog Cymru yn cyhoeddi manylion hyn yn fuan, ond gwnaf un pwynt. Gostyngir y gyllideb cymorth rhanbarthol dewisol i’w chysoni â’r lefelau gwariant cyfredol, yn seiliedig ar hawliadau. Fodd bynnag, nid yw hynny o unrhyw bwys gweithredol gan fod y Prif Weinidog wedi rhoi ymrwymiad cadarn na wrthodir unrhyw brosiect oherwydd prinder adnoddau grant. Ailddatganaf hynny heddiw. Telir unrhyw gostau yn sgîl pwysau cyllidebol yn ystod y flwyddyn ariannol.

It will not escape your notice that the budget for expenditure on structural funds is unchanged, and neither have I amended the sums available for use as match funds. The information that I have from the Welsh European Funding Office is that, based on project approvals, there is a possibility that expenditure could exceed the budget provision for the current financial year, and, if that is the case, I will address the funding in-year. On the other hand, if project sponsors have approved projects but fail to submit claims, it is possible that we will underspend against the budget provision. It is in everybody’s interests that project sponsors submit claims on time. As we approach the 2002 spending review, it is essential that we achieve the estimated spending profiles so that the next tranche of structural funds provision is allocated by the Treasury in line with estimated expenditure. I stress that point strongly to the Assembly.

Yr ydych wedi sylwi, mae’n siŵr, fod y gyllideb ar gyfer gwariant ar gronfeydd strwythurol yn ddigyfnewid, ac nad wyf ychwaith wedi diwygio’r symiau sydd ar gael i’w defnyddio fel arian cyfatebol. Y wybodaeth sydd gennyf o Swyddfa Cyllid Ewropeaidd Cymru, yn seiliedig ar gymeradwyaeth prosiectau, yw bod posibilrwydd y gallai gwariant fynd y tu hwnt i’r ddarpariaeth gyllidebol ar gyfer y flwyddyn ariannol gyfredol, ac os felly, byddaf yn ymdrin â’r ariannu yn ystod y flwyddyn. Ar y llaw arall, os oes gan noddwyr brosiectau cymeradwy ond eu bod yn methu â chyflwyno hawliadau, mae’n bosibl y byddwn yn tanwario yn erbyn y ddarpariaeth gyllidebol. Mae sicrhau bod noddwyr prosiectau yn cyflwyno hawliadau ar amser er budd i bawb. Wrth inni agosáu at adolygiad o wariant 2002, mae’n hanfodol ein bod yn cyflawni’r proffiliau gwario amcangyfrifedig fel bod y gyfran nesaf o gronfeydd strwythurol a ddyrennir gan y Trysorlys yn unol â gwariant amcangyfrifedig. Pwysleisiaf y pwynt hwnnw yn gryf i’r Cynulliad.

Overall, this package represents a real terms increase in the economic development budget of 9.5 per cent next year and nearly 2.9 per cent the following year.

Yn gyffredinol, mae’r pecyn hwn yn gynnydd gwirioneddol o 9.5 y cant yn y gyllideb datblygu economaidd y flwyddyn nesaf a bron 2.9 y cant y flwyddyn ganlynol.

This has been an extraordinarily difficult year for Welsh agriculture, the wider rural economy and rural communities. We have provided short-term aid to farmers to alleviate the problems they face. On 26 July, the First Minister and Carwyn Jones announced a rural recovery plan that provided £65 million to help rebuild the rural economy following the effects of foot and mouth disease. This included substantial assistance for small businesses and the tourism sector, as well as for farmers. The plan is now being implemented and we are ready to review the situation in the light of the continuing fight against foot and mouth disease.

Bu hon yn flwyddyn eithriadol o anodd i amaethyddiaeth Cymru, yr economi wledig ehangach a chymunedau gwledig. Darparasom gymorth byrdymor i ffermwyr i leddfu’r problemau a wynebant. Ar 26 Gorffennaf, cyhoeddodd Prif Weinidog Cymru a Carwyn Jones gynllun adfer gwledig a ddarparodd £65 miliwn i helpu i ailadeiladu’r economi wledig yn dilyn effeithiau clwy’r traed a’r genau. Yr oedd hyn yn cynnwys cymorth sylweddol i fusnesau bach a’r sector twristiaeth, yn ogystal ag i ffermwyr. Gweithredir y cynllun ar hyn o bryd ac yr ydym yn barod i adolygu’r sefyllfa yng ngoleuni’r frwydr barhaus yn erbyn clwy’r traed a’r genau.

Looking to the future, what farming needs is a clear long-term sense of direction. This time last year, Carwyn established the Farming Futures group—a broad-based team of industry experts—to advise him on how the industry needs to develop in Wales and who can do what to get us there. A draft strategy document, setting out clear objectives for the future, was issued for consultation in the summer, and responses were positive. The group has finalised its work and Carwyn will launch his strategy next month. That underlines that we are working hard to map out a vision that aims to return stability to the industry.

Wrth edrych i’r dyfodol, yr hyn sydd ei angen ar ffermio yw cyfeiriad hirdymor clir. Yr adeg hon y llynedd, sefydlodd Carwyn y grŵp Dyfodol Ffermio—tîm eang o arbenigwyr o’r diwydiant—i’w gynghori ar sut y mae angen i’r diwydiant ddatblygu yng Nghymru a phwy all wneud beth i’n helpu i gyrraedd yno. Cyhoeddwyd dogfen strategaeth ddrafft, yn nodi amcanion clir ar gyfer y dyfodol, ar gyfer ymgynghori yn yr haf, a bu’r ymatebion yn gadarnhaol. Mae’r grŵp wedi cwblhau ei waith a bydd Carwyn yn lansio ei strategaeth y mis nesaf. Pwysleisia hynny ein bod yn gweithio’n galed i lunio gweledigaeth sy’n anelu at wneud y diwydiant yn sefydlog unwaith eto.

The draft strategy contains over 50 action points to help agriculture adapt to the current pressures. This will be done through better targeting and more effective use of existing resources, such as the rural development plan and Farming Connect. The Assembly aims to help as many family farmers as possible to find ways of adapting so that they can survive. We cannot do it alone. That is why the strategy is broad based, and a better future for farmers involves delivering in partnership with the industry and other key partners. The strategy also stresses the links with the Assembly’s wider objectives, particularly sustainable development. There are no instant solutions, but I know that Carwyn is keen to move to the implementation stage quickly, to deliver practical help for the industry.

Mae’r strategaeth ddrafft yn cynnwys dros 50 o bwyntiau gweithredu i helpu amaethyddiaeth i addasu i’r pwysau cyfredol. Gwneir hyn drwy dargedu gwell a defnyddio adnoddau presennol yn fwy effeithiol, megis y cynllun datblygu gwledig a Chyswllt Ffermio. Mae’r Cynulliad yn anelu at helpu cymaint â phosibl o ffermwyr a’u teuluoedd i ddod o hyd i ffyrdd o addasu fel y gallant oroesi. Ni allwn wneud hyn ar ein pennau ein hunain. Dyna pam y mae’r strategaeth yn eang, ac mae gwell dyfodol i ffermwyr yn golygu cyflwyno mewn partneriaeth â’r diwydiant a phartneriaid allweddol eraill. Mae’r strategaeth hefyd yn pwysleisio’r cysylltiadau ag amcanion ehangach y Cynulliad, yn arbennig datblygu cynaliadwy. Nid oes atebion parod, ond gwn fod Carwyn yn awyddus i symud tuag at y cam gweithredu yn gyflym, i roi cymorth ymarferol i’r diwydiant.

In addition, a further £15 million for rate relief for businesses in rural areas will be available from 1 April 2002. I am also pleased to announce that I have agreed, in principle, to provide a grant of £250,000 from end year flexibility to Urdd Gobaith Cymru, for a new building at its Glanllyn centre near Bala.

Ar ben hyn, bydd £15 miliwn arall ar gael ar gyfer rhyddhad trethi i fusnesau mewn ardaloedd gwledig o 1 Ebrill 2002. Yr wyf yn falch o gyhoeddi hefyd fy mod wedi cytuno, mewn egwyddor, i ddarparu grant o £250,000 o hyblygrwydd diwedd y flwyddyn i Urdd Gobaith Cymru, ar gyfer adeilad newydd yn ei chanolfan yng Nglan-llyn ger y Bala.

The resources allocated also reflect existing commitments to provide match funding for the rural elements of the Objective 1 programme and the rural development plan. As part of that process, the Tir Gofal budget increases by £3 million a year to enable additional farms to enter the scheme. We will keep funding under review as part of our commitment to building a sustainable Welsh agricultural sector for the longer term. Separately, additional funding has been allocated for other programmes including ewe genotyping, grants to help farming families to adapt and diversify, and plant health. Carwyn will announce the detail shortly.

Mae’r adnoddau a ddyrannwyd hefyd yn adlewyrchu’r ymrwymiadau presennol i ddarparu arian cyfatebol ar gyfer elfennau gwledig rhaglen Amcan 1 a’r cynllun datblygu gwledig. Fel rhan o’r broses honno, mae cyllideb Tir Gofal yn cynyddu £3 miliwn y flwyddyn i alluogi ffermydd ychwanegol i ymuno â’r cynllun. Byddwn yn adolygu’r arian yn rheolaidd fel rhan o’n hymrwymiad i adeiladu sector amaethyddol cynaliadwy yng Nghymru yn y tymor hwy. Ar wahân i hyn, dyrannwyd arian ychwanegol i raglenni eraill gan gynnwys genoteipio mamogiaid, grantiau i helpu ffermwyr a’u teuluoedd i addasu ac arallgyfeirio, ac iechyd planhigion. Bydd Carwyn yn cyhoeddi’r manylion yn fuan.

Members will recall that, in last year’s budget round, I made new provision for funding the Forestry Commission’s activities in Wales. Agreement has now been reached for the appropriate transfer to the Assembly, and I expect the resources to be transferred at the time of the winter supplementary estimate. Details will be reflected in my December announcement on in-year changes to this year’s budget and for future years, in my final budget statement next month. In real terms, these proposals do not increase the agriculture and rural development budget; but this excludes the rural recovery plan.

Bydd yr Aelodau yn cofio imi wneud darpariaeth newydd yng nghyllideb y llynedd, i ariannu gweithgareddau’r Comisiwn Coedwigaeth yng Nghymru. Daethpwyd i gytundeb bellach i drosglwyddo’r adnoddau priodol i’r Cynulliad, a disgwyliaf i’r adnoddau gael eu trosglwyddo ar adeg amcangyfrif atodol y gaeaf. Caiff y manylion eu hadlewyrchu yn fy nghyhoeddiad ym mis Rhagfyr ar newidiadau yn ystod y flwyddyn i gyllideb eleni ac, yn y blynyddoedd i ddod, yn fy natganiad terfynol ar y gyllideb y mis nesaf. Mewn termau gwirioneddol, nid yw’r cynigion hyn yn cynyddu’r gyllideb amaethyddiaeth a datblygu gwledig; ond nid yw hyn yn cynnwys y cynllun adfer gwledig.

I turn now to culture, sport and the Welsh language, where we are providing a substantial increase in support for the arts through the Arts Council of Wales. That will enable the arts in Wales to flourish as never before and to boost our international reputation. For clarity, I will cover two major items that do not feature in this budget—the Wales Millennium Centre and the Swansea Waterfront Museum. The funding stream for the construction of the Wales Millennium Centre has already been committed. Following her written statement to the Assembly on 19 July, Jenny Randerson will be providing further details on this when she answers oral questions in Plenary on 25 October. A major investment of £6 million is also being made in the Swansea Waterfront Museum.

Trof yn awr at ddiwylliant, chwaraeon a’r Gymraeg, lle y darparwn gynnydd sylweddol mewn cymorth i’r celfyddydau drwy Gyngor Celfyddydau Cymru. Bydd hynny’n galluogi’r celfyddydau yng Nghymru i ffynnu’n fwy nag erioed o’r blaen ac i hybu ein henw da yn rhyngwladol. I egluro, byddaf yn trafod dwy eitem o bwys nad ydynt yn ymddangos yn y gyllideb hon—Canolfan Mileniwm Cymru ac Amgueddfa Glan y Dŵr Abertawe. Eisoes dyrannwyd arian ar gyfer adeiladu Canolfan Mileniwm Cymru. Yn dilyn ei datganiad ysgrifenedig i’r Cynulliad ar 19 Gorffennaf, bydd Jenny Randerson yn rhoi manylion pellach am hyn pan fydd yn ateb cwestiynau llafar yn y Cyfarfod Llawn ar 25 Hydref. Caiff swm sylweddol o £6 miliwn ei fuddsoddi hefyd yn Amgueddfa Glan y Dŵr Abertawe.

Members will also be interested in the establishment of a film fund. Although no figures appear in the published budget, I confirm that we are committed to the fund and will make funds available when they are required.

Bydd yr Aelodau â diddordeb hefyd mewn sefydlu cronfa ffilm. Er nad oes unrhyw ffigurau yn ymddangos yn y gyllideb gyhoeddedig, cadarnhaf ein bod yn ymrwymedig i’r gronfa a byddaf yn sicrhau bod arian ar gael pan fydd ei angen.

We will continue our support for free access to the National Museums and Galleries of Wales, which has been an outstanding success. We are also providing substantial support for the National Library of Wales’s new visitor centre in Aberystwyth, and for the development of Culture Cymru On-line, a major on-line presence for culture in Wales. Additional funding is also being provided to the Welsh Language Board and to the Sports Council for Wales to continue work in support of the Ryder Cup, following the marvellous news that the tournament is coming to Wales in 2010.

Byddwn yn parhau i gefnogi mynediad am ddim i Amgueddfeydd ac Orielau Cenedlaethol Cymru, a fu’n llwyddiant ysgubol. Yr ydym hefyd yn darparu cefnogaeth sylweddol i ganolfan ymwelwyr newydd Llyfrgell Cenedlaethol Cymru, ac i ddatblygu Diwylliant Cymru Ar-lein, presenoldeb ar-lein o bwys i ddiwylliant yng Nghymru. Darperir arian ychwanegol hefyd i Fwrdd yr iaith Gymraeg ac i Gyngor Chwaraeon Cymru i barhau â’r gwaith o gefnogi Cwpan Ryder, yn dilyn y newyddion gwych fod y bencampwriaeth yn dod i Gymru yn 2010.

We are also simplifying the way in which the Welsh Books Council is funded, and we are funding new work by the council to promote books from Wales in other countries.

Yr ydym hefyd yn symleiddio’r ffordd yr ariennir Cyngor Llyfrau Cymru, ac yn ariannu gwaith newydd gan y cyngor i hyrwyddo llyfrau o Gymru mewn gwledydd eraill.

These measures represent a real terms increase in the culture, sport and Welsh language budget of 11 per cent next year and 3.4 per cent the following year. Jenny Randerson will announce the details shortly.

Mae’r mesurau hyn yn gynnydd gwirioneddol o 11 y cant y flwyddyn nesaf a 3.4 y cant y flwyddyn ganlynol yn y gyllideb ar gyfer diwylliant, chwaraeon a’r Gymraeg. Bydd Jenny Randerson yn cyhoeddi’r manylion yn fuan.

I now turn to local government and housing. The priority has been to extend programmes that target deprivation and contribute to social inclusion, building on our commitment to revitalise our most distressed and disadvantaged communities. Again, through a mixture of recurrent resources and unspent provision, resources are being made available to address commitments on homelessness, improving the quality of our housing and better home safety and access. This amounts to some £7.8 million over the next two years, which is designed to complement programmes and policies elsewhere. For example, getting hospital patients back into their own homes as quickly as possible will reduce bed blocking.

Trof yn awr at lywodraeth leol a thai. Bu’n flaenoriaeth i ymestyn rhaglenni sydd yn targedu amddifadedd ac yn cyfrannu at gynhwysedd cymdeithasol, gan adeiladu ar ein hymrwymiad i adfywio ein cymunedau sydd yn wynebu’r cyni a’r anfantais fwyaf. Unwaith eto, drwy gymysgedd o adnoddau rheolaidd a darpariaeth nas gwariwyd, mae adnoddau ar gael i ymdrin ag ymrwymiadau o ran digartrefedd, gwella ansawdd ein tai a gwell diogelwch a mynediad i gartrefi. Mae hyn yn gwneud cyfanswm o tua £7.8 miliwn dros y ddwy flynedd nesaf, a gynllunnir i ategu rhaglenni a pholisïau mewn mannau eraill. Er enghraifft, bydd dychwelyd cleifion ysbyty i’w cartrefi eu hunain cyn gynted â phosibl yn lleddfu’r broblem o flocio gwelyau.

I have also made some £9.7 million available to improve information technology facilities in local government, which complements the allocations I outlined earlier in the context of the economic development budget. An additional £26 million is also being added to the Corus package announced by the First Minister on 3 May, primarily for community regeneration purposes and transport infrastructure. Separately, I have set aside £2 million, to be spent immediately, on a crime reduction package that will focus on improving the quality of life in our communities. That is on top of the £1 million for the continuation of the On Track programme next year. Provision has also been allocated to cover the ongoing work of the Boundary Commission for Wales and the revaluation of council tax bands.

Sicrheais hefyd fod tua £9.7 miliwn ar gael i wella cyfleusterau technoleg gwybodaeth mewn llywodraeth leol, sydd yn ategu’r dyraniadau a amlinellais yn gynharach yng nghyd-destun y gyllideb datblygu economaidd. Ychwanegir £26 miliwn ychwanegol at y pecyn Corus a gyhoeddwyd gan Brif Weinidog Cymru ar 3 Mai, yn bennaf at ddibenion adfywio cymunedau a seilwaith trafnidiaeth. Ar wahân i hyn, neilltuais £2 filiwn, i’w gwario ar unwaith, ar becyn lleihau troseddau a fydd yn canolbwyntio ar wella ansawdd bywyd yn ein cymunedau. Mae hynny ar ben y £1 filiwn er mwyn parhau â’r rhaglen On Track y flwyddyn nesaf. Dyrannwyd darpariaeth hefyd ar gyfer gwaith parhaus Comisiwn Ffiniau Cymru ac adbrisio bandiau’r dreth gyngor.

I shall give full details to the Local Government and Housing Committee on 24 October. These proposals enable us to continue working in partnership with local government in Wales to assist those with a democratic mandate to deliver services for the people of Wales. I attach the highest priority to this effective partnership. The proposals represent a real terms increase in the local government budget of 3.4 per cent next year and 3.1 per cent the following year. For housing, the figures are 7 per cent and 0.8 per cent respectively.

Byddaf yn rhoi’r manylion llawn i’r Pwyllgor Llywodraeth Leol a Thai ar 24 Hydref. Mae’r cynigion hyn yn ein galluogi i barhau i weithio mewn partneriaeth â llywodraeth leol yng Nghymru i helpu’r rhai sydd â mandad democrataidd i gyflwyno gwasanaethau i bobl Cymru. Rhoddaf y flaenoriaeth fwyaf i’r bartneriaeth effeithiol hon. Mae’r cynigion yn gynnydd gwirioneddol o 3.4 y cant y flwyddyn nesaf a 3.1 y cant y flwyddyn ganlynol yng nghyllideb llywodraeth leol. Ar gyfer tai, mae’r ffigurau yn 7 y cant ac 0.8 y cant yn eu tro.

Members will also note that I have established a new budget for ‘other Assembly services’. It will provide resources for Assembly budgets that cut across the whole range of Assembly business, such as the public appointments unit, which serves all portfolios.

Bydd yr Aelodau yn nodi hefyd fy mod wedi sefydlu cyllideb newydd ar gyfer ‘gwasanaethau eraill y Cynulliad’. Bydd yn darparu adnoddau ar gyfer cyllidebau’r Cynulliad sydd yn torri ar draws ystod lawn busnes y Cynulliad, fel yr uned penodiadau cyhoeddus, sydd yn gwasanaethu pob portffolio.

Promoting equality of opportunity is one of the Assembly’s principal commitments and duties. However, if we are to give a lead across Wales, the Assembly must also be an exemplary employer. It is an integral part of our modern government agenda. An equal pay audit of Assembly staff has been conducted and the outcome reported to the Committee on Equality of Opportunity. It found that in all but the most junior administrative grades, on average men earn considerably more than women for work of the same grade. In some grades, the pay gap is as much as 10 per cent. The Equal Opportunities Commission has set employers a challenge to reduce the pay gap in the workplace by 50 per cent in the next five years and to eliminate it entirely in eight years. As a model employer in Wales, the Assembly should aim to meet and exceed that target for its own staff. We must also address low pay.

Mae hybu cyfle cyfartal yn un o brif ymrwymiadau a dyletswyddau’r Cynulliad. Fodd bynnag, er mwyn rhoi arweiniad ledled Cymru, rhaid i’r Cynulliad fod yn gyflogwr rhagorol hefyd. Mae’n rhan annatod o agenda fodern ein llywodraeth. Cynhaliwyd archwiliad cyflog cyfartal ar gyfer staff y Cynulliad a chyflwynwyd y canlyniad ar ffurf adroddiad i’r Pwyllgor Cyfle Cyfartal. Gwelodd fod dynion ar gyfartaledd, ym mhob gradd ar wahân i’r graddau gweinyddol isaf, yn ennill cryn dipyn yn fwy na merched am waith o’r un radd. Mewn rhai graddau, mae’r bwlch cyflogau gymaint â 10 y cant. Mae’r Comisiwn Cyfle Cyfartal wedi gosod her i gyflogwyr leihau’r bwlch cyflogau yn y gweithle 50 y cant yn y pum mlynedd nesaf a’i ddileu yn llwyr ymhen wyth mlynedd. Fel cyflogwr model yng Nghymru, dylai’r Cynulliad anelu at gyrraedd y targed ar gyfer ei staff ei hun a mynd y tu hwnt iddo. Rhaid inni ymdrin â chyflogau isel hefyd.

That is why the Assembly’s management and the trade unions have agreed a substantial pay reform for our administrative staff and junior and middle managers. We will set a target salary for each grade, which everyone will be able to reach in five years or less. Introducing equal pay for Assembly staff will cost money. However, this investment is necessary if the Assembly is to become a standard-setting equal opportunity, equal pay employer. The central administration provision will increase by 5.8 per cent in 2002-03 and 9.7 per cent the following year, reflecting the need to fund this essential reform.

Dyna pam y mae rheolwyr y Cynulliad a’r undebau llafur wedi cytuno ar ddiwygio cyflogau yn sylweddol i’n staff gweinyddol a rheolwyr iau a chanolig. Byddwn yn gosod targed o ran cyflogau ar gyfer pob gradd, y bydd pawb yn gallu ei gyrraedd ymhen pum mlynedd neu lai. Bydd cyflwyno cyflog cyfartal i staff y Cynulliad yn costio arian. Fodd bynnag, er mwyn i’r Cynulliad ddod yn gyflogwr cyfle cyfartal, cyflog cyfartal sydd yn gosod safonau, rhaid wrth y buddsoddiad hwn. Bydd y ddarpariaeth ar gyfer gweinyddiaeth ganolog yn cynyddu 5.8 y cant yn 2002-03 a 9.7 y cant y flwyddyn ganlynol, gan adlewyrchu’r angen i ariannu’r diwygiad hanfodol hwn.

I believe that these proposals offer a balanced approach, which reflects the priorities that I have outlined. They provide the means to take forward our agenda on public services, as well as investing for the long term and building upon the resources that have already been provided to address immediate needs such as the crises in the steel communities and in rural Wales. I commend the draft budget to the Assembly.

Credaf fod y cynigion hyn yn cynnig ymagwedd gytbwys, sydd yn adlewyrchu’r blaenoriaethau a amlinellais. Maent yn fodd i weithredu ar ein hagenda ar wasanaethau cyhoeddus, yn ogystal â buddsoddi ar gyfer yr hirdymor ac adeiladu ar yr adnoddau a ddarparwyd eisoes i ymdrin ag anghenion uniongyrchol fel yr argyfyngau yn y cymunedau dur ac yng Nghymru wledig. Cymeradwyaf y gyllideb ddrafft i’r Cynulliad.

Dafydd Wigley siaradwyd yn Gymraeg t. 57

Dafydd Wigley spoken in Welsh p. 57

Cynigiaf y gwelliannau canlynol yn enw Jocelyn Davies. Gwelliant 1: ychwanegu’r canlynol ar ddiwedd y cynnig:

I propose the following amendments in the name of Jocelyn Davies. Amendment 1: add at the end of the motion:

Dafydd Wigley (parhad) siaradwyd yn Gymraeg t. 57

Dafydd Wigley (continued) spoken in Welsh p. 57

Cynigiaf welliant 2. Ychwanegu’r canlynol ar ddiwedd y cynnig:

I propose amendment 2. Add at the end of the motion:

Dafydd Wigley (parhad) siaradwyd yn Gymraeg ac yn Saesneg t. 57

Dafydd Wigley (continued) spoken in Welsh and English p. 57

Mae’n dda gennyf fod yn ôl ar y fainc flaen ar gyfer y ddadl bwysig hon. Yr wyf yn falch hefyd o gael cyfle i siarad ar achlysur mor sylfaenol mor fuan wedi dychwelyd i’m swydd fel llefarydd Plaid Cymru ar gyllid.

in Welsh I am glad to be back on the front bench for this important debate. I am also pleased to have the opportunity to speak on such a crucial occasion so soon after returning to my post as Plaid Cymru’s spokesperson on finance.

Diolchaf i Edwina Hart am ei pharodrwydd hi a’i staff i ddarparu’r papurau cefndir inni. Mae hynny i’w groesawu. Fe dderbyniasom y papurau y bore yma, er mai mater arall yw deall eu hystyr. Rhaid adeiladu ar hyn a sicrhau bod gwybodaeth fanylach ar gael i holl Aelodau’r Cynulliad, fel y gallant ddeall y ffigurau.

in Welsh I thank Edwina Hart for her and her staff’s willingness to provide us with the background papers. That is to be welcomed. We received the papers this morning, although understanding them is another matter. We must build on this and ensure that more detailed information is available to all Assembly Members, so that they can understand the figures.

Cydymdeimlaf ag Edwina, oherwydd mae ei gwaith yn amhosibl. Rhaid iddi gyflwyno cyllideb sy’n ymddangos fel pe bai’n cynnwys rhywbeth newydd. Fodd bynnag, mae’r gyllideb hon yn cynnwys yr un wybodaeth, yn sylfaenol, â’r hyn a gyflwynwyd fis Mawrth. Yr oedd yn annigonol bryd hynny ac mae’n dal yn annigonol heddiw.

in Welsh I sympathise with Edwina, because she has an impossible task. She must present a budget that appears to include something new. However, this budget includes the same information, in essence, as that presented in March. It was inadequate then and it remains so today.

Gwnaf dri phwynt cyffredinol am y ddarpariaeth ariannol ar gyfer y cyfnod hwn, a’r modd y mae’r Llywodraeth Lafur/Ryddfrydol yn dewis gwario’r arian.

in Welsh I will make three general points on the financial provision for this period, and how the Labour/Liberal Government chooses to spend the money.

Yn gyntaf, nid yw’r dorth yn ddigon mawr. Sylweddolaf fod yn rhaid i Edwina a’r Llywodraeth weithio o fewn yr hyn sydd ar gael. Fodd bynnag, sut bynnag y dewiswn rannu’r dorth, dim ond briwsion a gaiff rhai adrannau. Rhaid ail-ddatgan nad yw’n ddigon da seilio gwariant cyhoeddus yng Nghymru ar fformiwla Barnett, sy’n dyddio’n ôl i 1978. Dylem oll frwydro i gael sail gwrthrychol i wariant cyhoeddus—un sy’n mesur anghenion Cymru a rhannau eraill o Brydain drwy gyfundrefn o ddangosyddion a fyddai’n adlewyrchu gwir angen.

in Welsh First, the loaf is not large enough. I realise that Edwina and the Government must work within what is available. However, whichever way we decide to share out the loaf, some departments will only get crumbs. It must be reiterated that it is not good enough to base public expenditure in Wales on the Barnett formula, which dates back to 1978. We should all fight for an objective basis for public expenditure—one that measures the needs of Wales and other parts of Britain according to a system of indicators that reflect true need.

Yn ail, dylid gofalu bod yr holl arian a ddaw o gronfeydd strwythurol Ewropeaidd yn cael ei drosglwyddo i Gymru yn ychwanegol i’r bloc Barnett. Ni ddylai’r arian gael ei lyncu gan y Trysorlys yn Llundain. Digwyddodd hynny eto fis diwethaf gyda Tir Gofal. Dylai’r arian ar gyfer rhaglenni Amcan 1, 2 a 3 fod yn ychwanegol i’n cyllideb.

in Welsh Secondly, we should ensure that all the funding from European structural funds is transferred to Wales over and above the Barnett block. The money should not be swallowed by the Treasury in London, as happened again last month with Tir Gofal. The money for the Objective 1, 2 and 3 programmes should be in addition to our budget.

Yn drydydd, dylem, fel Cynulliad—yn wir, fel Senedd—fod â hawl cyllidol llawer mwy sylweddol. Mae’n eironig fod gan gyngor cymuned fwy o hawl i amrywio maint ei gyllideb nag sydd gan y Cynulliad Cenedlaethol.

in Welsh Thirdly, we as an Assembly—indeed, as a Parliament—should have much more substantial fiscal powers. It is ironic that a community council has more power to vary the size of its budget than the National Assembly does.

I now turn to how we control, or fail to control, the expenditure that is at our disposal. A total of £50 million of the health budget stands unused, as does £70 million of the economic development budget. I know that the Minister for Finance, Local Government and Communities finds the levels of underspending unacceptable. All Members should find those levels of underspend unacceptable. They reflect services that the people of Wales have the right to receive, but which the Government has failed to deliver. We need a much tighter reviewing procedure to identify potential underspends as early as possible. Potential underspends should be put right where possible. However, where underspend is inevitable, we should have one-stop packages that can be brought off the shelf quickly and used without delay. I was going to suggest that one such package should be the Porthmadog community hospital. I am glad that I cannot use my original script. I am grateful to Edwina for referring to the Porthmadog community hospital and a Rhondda hospital as examples of projects that can be brought off the shelf. We need that to be developed so that such money can be used much more quickly so that we are not in danger of losing funds.

yn Saesneg Trof yn awr at y ffordd y rheolwn, neu y methwn â rheoli, y gwariant sydd at ein defnydd. Mae cyfanswm o £50 miliwn o’r gyllideb iechyd yn parhau heb ei ddefnyddio, yn yr un modd ag y mae £70 miliwn o’r gyllideb datblygu economaidd. Gwn fod y Gweinidog dros Gyllid, Llywodraeth Leol a Chymunedau o’r farn fod tanwariant o’r fath yn annerbyniol. Dylai tanwariant o’r fath fod yn annerbyniol i bob Aelod. Adlewyrchant wasanaethau y mae gan bobl Cymru yr hawl i’w derbyn, ond y mae’r Llywodraeth wedi methu â’u cyflwyno. Mae angen gweithdrefn adolygu dynnach o lawer i nodi tanwariant posibl mor gynnar â phosibl. Dylid unioni unrhyw danwariant posibl lle bo hynny’n bosibl. Fodd bynnag, pan fydd y tanwariant yn anochel, dylem fod â phecynnau un cam y gellir eu tynnu oddi ar y silff yn gyflym a’u defnyddio yn ddi-oed. Yr oeddwn yn mynd i awgrymu y dylai ysbyty cymunedol Porthmadog fod yn un pecyn o’r fath. Yr wyf yn falch na allaf ddefnyddio fy sgript wreiddiol. Yr wyf yn ddiolchgar i Edwina am gyfeirio at ysbyty cymunedol Porthmadog ac ysbyty y Rhondda fel enghreifftiau o brosiectau y gellir eu tynnu oddi ar y silff. Mae arnom angen i hynny gael ei ddatblygu fel y gellir defnyddio arian o’r fath yn gynt o lawer fel nad ydym mewn perygl o golli arian.

There was another good example of such a project this week, when we were lobbied by representatives acting on behalf of community nurses. They indicated that if all community nurses had their own computers and were trained to use them—it would be a one-off cost of some £2 million or £3 million—that would save perhaps 20 to 30 per cent of community nursing time at the sharp end. That is the sort of package that we should have ready to use when we think that we have potential underspends, and I suggest it strongly to the Minister for Finance. When John Redwood failed to spend £100 million of the Welsh budget a decade ago, he was rightly castigated. If we fail to spend money that is available, we should equally be equally open to criticism. I accept that the money that John Redwood had was lost back to the Treasury in London. That is one benefit of having an Assembly—we can at least use the money ourselves. However, let us make sure that we use it.

yn Saesneg Bu enghraifft dda arall o brosiect o’r fath yr wythnos hon, pan gawsom ein lobïo gan gynrychiolwyr yn gweithredu ar ran nyrsys cymunedol. Nodwyd y byddai nyrsys cymunedol yn arbed tua 20 i 30 y cant o’u hamser wrth eu gwaith pe bai ganddynt eu cyfrifiaduron eu hunain a phe caent hyfforddiant cyfrifiadurol, a hynny am gost unigol o tua £2 filiwn neu £3 miliwn. Dyna’r math o becyn a ddylai fod ar gael gennym yn barod i’w ddefnyddio pan gredwn fod tanwariant o bosibl, ac fe’i hargymhellaf yn gryf i’r Gweinidog dros Gyllid. Pan fethodd John Redwood â gwario £100 miliwn o gyllideb Cymru ddegawd yn ôl, cafodd ei geryddu, ac yn gywir felly. Os methwn â gwario arian sydd ar gael dylem yn yr un modd fod yn agored i feirniadaeth. Derbyniaf fod yr arian a gafodd John Redwood wedi cael ei anfon yn ôl i’r Trysorlys yn Llundain. Dyna un fantais o gael Cynulliad—gallwn o leiaf ddefnyddio’r arian ein hunain. Fodd bynnag, gadewch inni wneud yn siŵr ein bod yn ei ddefnyddio.

David Davies spoken in English p. 59

David Davies siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 59

Will you give way?

A wnewch chi ildio?

Dafydd Wigley spoken in Welsh and English p. 59

Dafydd Wigley siaradwyd yn Gymraeg ac yn Saesneg t. 59

No. I understand that interventions should not be taken during an opening speech. I know what point you were going to make—we all do. It will be rolled over, no doubt.

yn Saesneg Na wnaf. Deallaf na ddylid derbyn ymyriadau yn ystod araith agoriadol. Gwn pa bwynt yr oeddech ar fin ei wneud—gŵyr pob un ohonom. Caiff ei godi’n ddiweddarach mae’n siŵr.

The level of public expenditure that we had under the Conservative Government was even worse than that under the present Labour Government. We accept that there will be times when scheduled expenditure does not go ahead because of changing circumstances and needs. There is no merit in spending money for spending’s sake. We have a responsibility to ensure that public money is used judiciously. However, we also accept that there is every reason to have sensible levels of reserves, where money can be used in Wales when we have special needs in Wales and where the Treasury in London refuses to recognise those needs within its contingency reserve. However, our creation, holding and use of reserves must be above board, transparent and open to scrutiny. That is where, I suspect, we have a systematic weakness at present. The Minister for Finance, for all her willingness to make figures available to us, is not answerable to any all-party standing committee to scrutinise finance. There is no committee to determine the strategic priorities that should be followed by this Assembly, other than the Cabinet, which meets, of course, behind closed doors. That must be changed. There is another reason why we must scrutinise and control underspending—we must not give the Treasury in London an excuse to say that we are not using our resources as fully as we can.

yn Saesneg Yr oedd lefel y gwariant cyhoeddus a oedd gennym o dan Lywodraeth Geidwadol hyd yn oed yn waeth nag ydyw o dan y Llywodraeth Lafur bresennol. Derbyniwn y bydd adegau pan nad yw gwariant rheolaidd yn mynd yn ei flaen oherwydd amgylchiadau ac anghenion cyfnewidiol. Nid yw’n werth gwario arian er mwyn gwario. Mae gennym gyfrifoldeb dros sicrhau y defnyddir arian cyhoeddus yn ddoeth. Fodd bynnag, derbyniwn hefyd ei bod yn briodol inni gael lefelau synhwyrol o gronfeydd wrth gefn, lle y gellir defnyddio arian yng Nghymru pan fydd gennym anghenion arbennig yng Nghymru a phan fydd y Trysorlys yn Llundain yn gwrthod cydnabod yr anghenion hynny o fewn ei gronfa wrth gefn. Fodd bynnag, rhaid i’r modd yr ydym yn creu, dal a defnyddio’r cronfeydd wrth gefn fod yn onest, tryloyw ac yn agored i broses graffu. Dyna lle, dybiaf fi, y mae gennym wendid systematig ar hyn o bryd. Nid yw’r Gweinidog dros Gyllid, er mor barod ydyw i sicrhau bod ffigurau ar gael inni, yn atebol i unrhyw bwyllgor sefydlog pob plaid i graffu ar gyllid. Nid oes pwyllgor i bennu’r blaenoriaethau strategol y dylai’r Cynulliad hwn eu dilyn, heblaw’r Cabinet sydd yn cyfarfod, wrth gwrs, y tu ôl i ddrysau caeëdig. Rhaid newid hynny. Mae rheswm arall pam y mae’n rhaid inni graffu a rheoli tanwariant—rhaid inni beidio â rhoi esgus i’r Trysorlys yn Llundain ddweud nad ydym yn defnyddio ein hadnoddau mor llawn ag y gallwn.

The next question is whether this draft budget reflects the right priorities. I have severe reservations about some of these. I will highlight three of them. The first is the expenditure on higher education—the increase from £313 million to only £320 million. That is just over a 2 per cent increase, and less than the level of inflation. We heard Sir Eddie George talk yesterday about the importance of academic excellence and the need to expand the capacity for education. He paid tribute to ELWa’s role and said that it was fundamental. We heard the First Minister talk about the knowledge economy. However, unless we put our money where our mouths are on items such as this, we are guilty of uttering humbug. We must find ways of delivering in this important sector. Phil Williams and Gareth Jones will have comments on that.

yn Saesneg Y cwestiwn nesaf yw a yw’r gyllideb ddrafft hon yn adlewyrchu’r blaenoriaethau cywir. Mae gennyf amheuon mawr ynghylch rhai ohonynt. Soniaf am dair ohonynt. Y gyntaf yw’r gwariant ar addysg uwch—cynnydd o £313 miliwn i £320 miliwn yn unig. Mae hynny’n gynnydd o ychydig dros 2 y cant ac mae’n llai na lefel chwyddiant. Clywsom Syr Eddie George yn siarad ddoe am bwysigrwydd rhagoriaeth academaidd a’r angen i ehangu’r gallu i gael addysg. Talodd deyrnged i rôl ELWa gan ddweud ei bod yn sylfaenol. Clywsom Brif Weinidog Cymru yn siarad am yr economi wybodaeth. Fodd bynnag, oni roddwn ein harian ar ein gair ar eitemau fel hyn, yr ydym yn euog o ragrith. Rhaid inni ddod o hyd i ffyrdd o gyflwyno yn y sector pwysig hwn. Bydd gan Phil Williams a Gareth Jones sylwadau i’w gwneud ar hynny.

Trof at yr ail eitem yr wyf yn anhapus yn ei chylch. Mae’r gyllideb ar gyfer materion gwledig yn annerbyniol o isel. Yr ydym oll yn gwybod am yr argyfwng aruthrol sydd wedi ein hwynebu, sydd wedi gwaethygu ers ffurfio drafft cyntaf y gyllideb hon yn Chwefror a Mawrth. Eto, mae’r cynnydd yn y gylldieb ar gyfer cefn gwlad ac amaethyddiaeth, o £227 miliwn i £229 miliwn, yn gwbl annigonol. Mae’n gynnydd o lai na 2 y cant ac mae’n llai na chwyddiant. O fewn termau real mae’n ostyngiad mewn gwariant. Gwnaethpwyd datganiad ym mis Gorffennaf ynglŷn â phecyn cymorth gwerth £65 miliwn ar gyfer cefn gwlad, ac mae honiad bod £11 miliwn o’r arian hwn yn dod trwodd yn y flwyddyn ariannol dan sylw—2002-03. Fodd bynnag, methaf â gweld yn union o ble y daw’r arian hwn, oni bai ei fod yn arian sydd wedi cael ei ddisgrifio o dan benawdau eraill am resymau eraill. Methaf â gweld o ble y mae’r £15 miliwn a gyhoeddodd Edwina heddiw ar gyfer gostynigad mewn trethi lleol ar gyfer busnesau yn dod o fewn y gyllideb ychwaith. Mae angen cyllideb ddigonol ar gyfer cefn gwlad. Rhyfeddaf fod Plaid y Democratiaid Rhyddfrydol, sydd yn rhan o’r Llywodraeth ac sydd yn cynrychioli ardaloedd fel Powys, yn fodlon cefnogi’r gyllideb hon, sydd yn darparu cyn lleied i gefn gwlad.

in Welsh I turn to the second item about which I am unhappy. The budget for rural affairs is unacceptably low. We all know about the severe crisis that has faced us, which has worsened since the first draft of this budget was drawn up in February and March. However, the increase in the budget for the countryside and agriculture, from £227 million to £229 million, is totally inadequate. It is an increase of less than 2 per cent and less than inflation. In real terms it is a decrease in expenditure. A statement was made in July about a support package worth £65 million for the countryside, and it is claimed that £11 million of that money will become available in the financial year in question—2002-03. However, I fail to see exactly where this money will come from, unless the money is described under other headings for other reasons. I also fail to see from where the £15 million that Edwina announced today for local business rate relief comes within the budget. We need an adequate budget for the countryside. I am amazed that the Liberal Democrat Party, which is a part of the Government and represents areas such as Powys, is happy to support this budget, which makes such little provision for the countryside.

Dioddefodd ein ffermwyr ddigon eisoes. Dylai argymhelliad cyson y Pwyllgor Amaethyddiaeth a Datblygu Gwledig, sef sefydlu cynllun i helpu newydd-ddyfodiaid i fyd ffermio, fod yn flaenoriaeth. Yn awr yw’r amser i wneud hynny, neu heneiddio a chrebachu a wna’r diwydiant.

in Welsh Our farmers have suffered enough already. The Agriculture and Rural Development Committee’s frequent recommendation, namely the establishment of a scheme to help new entrants into farming, should be a priority. Now is the time to do that, or the industry will age and wither.

Thirdly, I turn to the question about the possible financial implications—

yn Saesneg Yn drydydd, trof at y goblygiadau ariannol posibl—

John Marek The Deputy Presiding Officer spoken in English p. 61

John Marek Y Dirprwy Lywydd siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 61

Order. You must do so quickly, as you only have 10 seconds left.

Trefn. Rhaid ichi wneud hynny’n gyflym, gan mai dim ond 10 eiliad sydd gennych yn weddill.

Dafydd Wigley spoken in Welsh and English p. 61

Dafydd Wigley siaradwyd yn Gymraeg ac yn Saesneg t. 61

I turn quickly to the financial implications of the current terrorist crisis. Circumstances have changed, and we must ensure that we have sufficient resources to deal with any security matters, particularly for our staff and our buildings, and for vaccines that may be needed in hospitals. I seek an assurance that additional money will come from the Treasury’s contingency reserve to meet those requirements.

yn Saesneg Trof yn gyflym at oblygiadau ariannol yr argyfwng terfysgol cyfredol. Mae amgylchiadau wedi newid, a rhaid inni sicrhau bod gennym ddigon o adnoddau i ddelio ag unrhyw faterion diogelwch, yn arbennig o ran ein staff a’n hadeiladau, ac o ran unrhyw frechlynnau y bydd eu hangen efallai mewn ysbytai. Ceisiaf sicrwydd y daw arian ychwanegol o gronfa wrth gefn y Trysorlys i ateb y gofynion hynny.

I gloi, mae angen arian ychwanegol arnom o dan sawl pennawd. Mae angen i Lywodraeth Cymru guro a churo drachefn ar ddrws Gordon Brown er mwyn cael setliad teg i Gymru, a chyllideb deg i fyd addysg, cefn gwlad ac i’n gweithwyr yn y sector cyhoeddus. Yr ydym am weld cyllideb sydd yn adlewyrchu anghenion Cymru, nid gwerthoedd Thatcheraidd Llywodraeth Tony Blair yn Llundain. Dyna pam yr estynwn wahoddiad i Aelodau’r Cynulliad gefnogi’r gwelliannau yn enw Jocelyn Davies.

in Welsh In conclusion, we need additional money under several headings. The Government of Wales should knock repeatedly on Gordon Brown’s door to ensure a fair settlement for Wales, and a fair budget for education, the countryside and our public sector workers. We want a budget that reflects the needs of Wales, not the Thatcherite values of Tony Blair’s Government in London. That is why we invite Assembly Members to support the amendments in the name of Jocelyn Davies.

Peter Black spoken in English p. 62

Peter Black siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 62

It will come as no surprise to Members to learn that the Liberal Democrats welcome this draft budget, and will support it. We do so because the budget’s measures take forward those in the partnership agreement. It provides extra money for key public services, particularly health and education, and delivers on the agreement’s promise to reduce class sizes for seven to 11-year-olds, to implement the proposals of the Rees commission on student hardship, to fund a rural schools policy and to put more money into the rural economy, tourism and economic development.

Ni fydd yn syndod i’r Aelodau bod y Democratiaid Rhyddfrydol yn croesawu’r gyllideb ddrafft hon, ac y byddant yn ei chefnogi. Y rheswm am hynny yw bod mesurau’r gyllideb yn datblygu mesurau’r cytundeb partneriaeth. Mae’n darparu arian ychwanegol ar gyfer gwasanaethau cyhoeddus allweddol, yn benodol iechyd ac addysg, ac yn cyflawni addewid y cytundeb i leihau maint dosbarthiadau plant saith i 11 mlwydd oed, gweithredu cynigion comisiwn Rees ar galedi ymhlith myfyrwyr, ariannu polisi ysgolion gwledig a rhoi mwy o arian i mewn i’r economi wledig, twristiaeth a datblygu economaidd.

Last year, our new partnership heralded a three-year budget, with huge increases in spending for the Welsh national health service, and Welsh education. This year, we have added more money to those two pots. This is a budget for teachers and students, for doctors and nurses, for the sick and the ill. There are already more doctors, nurses and teachers in Wales than in 2000. Next year, there will be more again.

Y llynedd, cyhoeddodd ein partneriaeth newydd gyllideb tair blynedd, gyda chynnydd enfawr mewn gwariant ar gyfer gwasanaeth iechyd gwladol Cymru, ac addysg Cymru. Eleni, yr ydym wedi rhoi mwy o arian i’r ddau faes hwnnw. Cyllideb yw hon ar gyfer athrawon a myfyrwyr, ar gyfer meddygon a nyrsys, ar gyfer pobl sâl a chleifion. Eisoes mae rhagor o feddygon, nyrsys ac athrawon yng Nghymru nag yn 2000. Y flwyddyn nesaf, bydd rhagor eto.

However, this budget is not about headlines, even though there are strong and positive headlines. It is about a government delivering by using its limited powers to the full, that is prepared to take decisions unique to Wales, and is ahead of England. Student finance is an example of that. A year ago, the Welsh Liberal Democrats had secured agreement from Labour to set up a commission to examine student hardship. A year later, we have set up the commission, seen its report, and provided more money for the poorest students. In this budget, we are agreeing more money for the reintroduction of learning maintenance bursaries—or grants to you and me. In a year’s time, Welsh students at colleges across Wales will have money that they would not have dreamed of under the UK New Labour Government, or even the Conservatives before that. It is a credit to our Labour partners that they have agreed to put the necessary extra funding in next year’s budget.

Fodd bynnag, nid mater o benawdau newyddion yw’r gyllideb hon, er bod iddi benawdau cryf a chadarnhaol. Mater ydyw o lywodraeth yn cyflawni addewidion drwy ddefnyddio ei phwerau cyfyngedig yn llawn, sy’n barod i wneud penderfyniadau unigryw i Gymru, ac sydd ar y blaen i Loegr. Mae arian myfyrwyr yn enghraifft o hynny. Flwyddyn yn ôl, yr oedd Democratiaid Rhyddfrydol Cymru wedi sicrhau cytundeb gan Lafur i sefydlu comisiwn er mwyn ymchwilio i galedi ymhlith myfyrwyr. Flwyddyn yn ddiweddarach, yr ydym wedi sefydlu’r comisiwn, wedi gweld ei adroddiad, ac wedi darparu mwy o arian i’r myfyrwyr tlotaf. Yn y gyllideb hon, yr ydym yn cytuno rhoi mwy o arian i ailgyflwyno bwrsariaethau cynnal astudio—neu grantiau i chi a fi. Ymhen blwyddyn, bydd gan fyfyrwyr mewn colegau ledled Cymru arian na fyddent wedi breuddwydio ei gael o dan Lywodraeth Llafur Newydd y DU, neu hyd yn oed y Ceidwadwyr cyn hynny. Mae’n glod i’n partneriaid Llafur iddynt gytuno i roi’r arian ychwanegol angenrheidiol yng nghyllideb y flwyddyn nesaf.

Another example of Welsh Liberal Democrat influence is the budget money for a rural schools policy. Here, we have the resources that we need to protect schools in our small villages—a cornerstone of rural life saved, when so many others are threatened or damaged.

Mae’r arian yn y gyllideb ar gyfer polisi ysgolion gwledig yn enghraifft arall o ddylanwad Democratiaid Rhyddfrydol Cymru. Yma, mae gennym yr adnoddau sydd eu hangen arnom i ddiogelu ysgolion yn ein pentrefi bychain—gan achub un o gonglfeini bywyd cefn gwlad, pan fo cymaint o rai eraill dan fygythiad neu’n cael eu tanseilio.

While this budget and the Welsh Liberal Democrat/Labour partnership delivers for Wales, Plaid Cymru and the Tories bleat. Their bleating would be more attractive if they had an alternative, but they do not. All that Plaid Cymru can say is that Wales needs more money and more powers. We agree with them that it does. However, a responsible party would outline what it would do with our existing powers and our existing budget. Plaid Cymru says nothing.

Tra bo’r gyllideb hon a phartneriaeth Democratiaid Rhyddfrydol/Llafur Cymru yn cyflawni addewidion dros Gymru, mae Plaid Cymru a’r Torïaid yn cwyno. Byddai eu cwyno yn tynnu mwy o sylw pe bai ganddynt gynigion amgen, ond nid oes ganddynt. Y cyfan y gall Plaid Cymru ei ddweud yw bod angen mwy o arian a mwy o bwerau ar Gymru. Cytunwn â hwy. Fodd bynnag, byddai plaid gyfrifol yn amlinellu’r hyn y byddai’n ei wneud â’r pwerau sydd gennym eisoes a’r gyllideb sydd gennym eisoes. Ni ddywed Plaid Cymru ddim byd.

The Tories, so recently a party of government throughout the UK, also show their incapability and irresponsibility in this debate. They have nothing to offer, not even an amendment. The Tories are so bereft of ideas that, after setting up a policy review a year ago and coming up with nothing, the only idea on which they could fall back was to suggest another policy review.

Dengys y Torïaid hefyd, a fu mor ddiweddar yn llywodraethu ledled y DU, eu hanallu a’u hanghyfrifoldeb yn y ddadl hon. Nid oes ganddynt ddim i’w gynnig, dim gwelliannau hyd yn oed. Mae’r Torïaid mor amddifad o syniadau mai’r unig syniad oedd ganddynt, ar ôl sefydlu adolygiad polisi flwyddyn yn ôl a methu â newid dim o gwbl, oedd awgrymu adolygiad polisi arall.

The opposition’s amendments and the quality of its response to budgets are disappointing. Plaid Cymru—the Party of Wales has nothing constructive to say. More disturbingly, it seems to believe that by adopting the mantra of ‘more money, more money’ it is fulfilling its role as the opposition. It is not. It is adopting the Paul Daniels’s school of budgeting, seeking to conjure up money from thin air, when it knows that our budgets are fixed by the Barnett formula and that the next comprehensive spending review will not be until 2003. What is more, it fails to recognise that, in spite of this, the draft budget contains new money. That money has been made available to us through the comprehensive spending review in year two of the budget cycle. Some of that money has already been allocated, but about £100 million has not. It is additional money, because it was not available this year and, therefore, represents clear and substantial growth in funding services.

Mae gwelliannau’r wrthblaid a safon ei hymateb i’r cyllidebau yn siomedig. Nid oes gan Blaid Cymru—the Party of Wales ddim adeiladol i’w ddweud. Yr hyn sy’n fwy difrifol byth yw yr ymddengys ei bod o’r farn ei bod, drwy weiddi ‘mwy o arian, mwy o arian’, yn cyflawni ei rôl fel gwrthblaid. Nid yw, yn hytrach mae megis dewin yn ceisio consurio arian o ddim, er ei bod yn gwybod bod ein cyllidebau wedi eu pennu gan fformiwla Barnett ac na fydd yr adolygiad cynhwysfawr nesaf o wariant tan 2003. At hynny, metha â chydnabod bod y gyllideb ddrafft, er gwaethaf hyn, yn cynnwys arian newydd. Sicrhawyd bod yr arian hwnnw ar gael inni drwy’r adolygiad cynhwysfawr o wariant yn ail flwyddyn y cylch cyllidebol. Mae rhywfaint o’r arian hwnnw wedi’i ddyrannu eisoes, ond mae tua £100 miliwn nas dyrannwyd. Arian ychwanegol ydyw, gan nad oedd ar gael eleni ac, felly, mae’n gynnydd digamsyniol a sylweddol o ran ariannu gwasanaethau.

Gareth Jones siaradwyd yn Gymraeg t. 64

Gareth Jones spoken in Welsh p. 64

Yr wyf yn gwrando’n ofalus pan ddywedwch ein bod yn swnian am ragor o arian. Fodd bynnag, yn nhermau’r fformiwla gyllido, nid ydym yn gofyn am ragor o arian i ysgolion a cholegau, ond gofynnwn i chi fynd i’r afael â fformiwla sydd yn ofnadwy o annheg. Mae’n creu trafferthion a thyndra yn ein hysgolion a rhwng unigolion. Beth ydych yn bwriadu gwneud amdani? A fyddwch yn caniatáu iddi aros fel ag y mae neu a ydych yn mynd i newid y fformiwla er gwell? Ble y mae eich addewidion ar hynny?

I listen carefully when you say that we whinge about more money. However, in terms of the funding formula, we are not asking for more money for schools and colleges, but we ask you to tackle a formula that is extremely unfair. It creates difficulties and tensions in our schools and between individuals. What do you intend to do about it? Will you allow it to stand or will you change the formula for the better? Where are your promises on that?

Peter Black spoken in English p. 64

Peter Black siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 64

You know, Gareth, that schools in Wales are better funded than schools in eight out of the 10 English regions. By not hypothecating, as at least one party in this Chamber proposed, the Welsh Local Government Association has allocated more money to schools than notionally allocated in the funding formula for local government. Schools are not losing out as a result of this budget. They are gaining from it.

Fe wyddoch, Gareth, y caiff ysgolion yng Nghymru eu hariannu’n well nag ysgolion mewn wyth o 10 rhanbarth Lloegr. Drwy beidio â phridiannu, fel y cynigiwyd gan o leiaf un o’r pleidiau yn y Siambr hon, mae Cymdeithas Llywodraeth Leol Cymru wedi dyrannu mwy o arian i ysgolion nag a ddyrannwyd yn dybiannol yn y fformiwla ariannu ar gyfer llywodraeth leol. Nid yw ysgolion ar eu colled o ganlyniad i’r gyllideb hon. Maent ar eu hennill.

I refer to the rural schools policy and the extra money that is being invested in it. Extra money is also being invested in school buildings. The National Assembly is allocating additional money to schools. Education in Wales is benefiting tremendously under this Liberal Democrat/Labour partnership Government.

Cyfeiriaf at y polisi ysgolion gwledig a’r arian ychwanegol a fuddsoddir ynddo. Buddsoddir arian ychwanegol hefyd mewn adeiladau ysgolion. Dyranna’r Cynulliad Cenedlaethol arian ychwanegol i ysgolion. Mae Addysg yng Nghymru yn elwa’n aruthrol o dan y Llywodraeth bartneriaeth hon rhwng y Democratiaid Rhyddfrydol a Llafur.

Jonathan Morgan spoken in English p. 64

Jonathan Morgan siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 64

I am interested in your comments about how local government in Wales is delivering for education in Wales. Will you join me in calling for the Minister for Education and Lifelong Learning to set specific delegation rates for local education authorities? You may not be aware but, in England, the delegation rate from local authorities to schools is some 90 per cent of their budget. Will you start setting a similar rate in Wales so that we can invest more money in schools?

Mae eich sylwadau ynglŷn â’r ffordd y mae llywodraeth leol yng Nghymru yn cyflawni ei haddewidion o ran addysg yng Nghymru yn ddiddorol. A ymunwch â mi wrth imi alw ar y Gweinidog dros Addysg a Dysgu Gydol Oes i bennu cyfraddau dirprwyo penodol ar gyfer awdurdodau addysg lleol? Efallai nad ydych yn ymwybodol o hyn ond, yn Lloegr, mae’r gyfradd a ddirprwyir gan awdurdodau lleol i ysgolion tua 90 y cant o’u cyllideb. A wnewch bennu cyfradd debyg yng Nghymru er mwyn inni allu buddsoddi mwy o arian mewn ysgolion?

Peter Black spoken in English p. 65

Peter Black siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 65

You know full well that there is no need to set delegation rates for schools in Wales, because schools receive the money allocated to them. Schools are benefiting tremendously from the money allocated by this administration. It is not the Assembly’s job to do the work of local government. Local government is capable of doing that work itself, as the figures, which are available to us, prove.

Gwyddoch yn iawn nad oes angen pennu cyfraddau dirprwyo ar gyfer ysgolion yng Nghymru, gan fod ysgolion yn cael yr arian a ddyrennir iddynt. Mae ysgolion yn elwa’n aruthrol o’r arian a ddyrennir gan y weinyddiaeth hon. Ni ddylai’r Cynulliad wneud gwaith llywodraeth leol. Mae llywodraeth leol yn gallu gwneud y gwaith hwnnw ei hun, fel y mae’r ffigurau, sydd ar gael inni, yn ei brofi.

This budget is a good news story for rural areas, business, deprived areas, the health service and education. There is money in the budget for student hardship and student grants. There is funding for a rural schools policy, some £10.5 million over three years, and money to repair school buildings. Substantial additional resources have been found for the health service, including £40 million, to which Edwina referred, to fund important capital work and to increase the capacity of the NHS. We also welcome the money for areas badly hit by the job losses at Corus, as well as the extra £13 million for the Welsh Development Agency to develop a number of key strategic projects across Wales.

Mae’r gyllideb hon yn newyddion da i ardaloedd gwledig, busnes, ardaloedd difreintiedig, y gwasanaeth iechyd ac addysg. Mae arian yn y gyllideb ar gyfer caledi ymhlith myfyrwyr a grantiau myfyrwyr. Ceir arian ar gyfer polisi ysgolion gwledig, tua £10.5 miliwn dros dair blynedd, ac arian i atgyweirio adeiladau ysgolion. Dyrannwyd adnoddau ychwanegol sylweddol i’r gwasanaeth iechyd, gan gynnwys £40 miliwn, y cyfeiriodd Edwina ato, i ariannu gwaith cyfalaf pwysig ac i gynyddu capasiti’r NHS. Croesawn hefyd yr arian ar gyfer yr ardaloedd sy’n dioddef yn sgîl y diswyddiadau yn Corus, yn ogystal â’r £13 miliwn ychwanegol i Awdurdod Datblygu Cymru ddatblygu nifer o brosiectau strategol allweddol ledled Cymru.

Geraint Davies spoken in English p. 65

Geraint Davies siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 65

I draw your attention to a grave injustice in coal mining communities. The coalfields regeneration fund currently gives £52 million to England and only £3.5 million to Wales. That is because of the injustice of the Barnett formula. If you consider the number of miners in Wales, that figure would increase to £10 million or £11 million. Will you make representations to Stephen Byers to rectify this grave injustice that our communities are suffering?

Tynnaf eich sylw at annhegwch difrifol mewn cymunedau glofaol. Ar hyn o bryd rhydd cronfa adfywio’r meysydd glo £52 miliwn i Loegr a £3.5 miliwn yn unig i Gymru. Y rheswm am hynny yw annhegwch fformiwla Barnett. Os ystyriwch nifer y glowyr yng Nghymru, byddai’r ffigur hwnnw yn cynyddu i £10 miliwn neu £11 miliwn. A dynnwch sylw Stephen Byers at hyn i unioni’r annhegwch difrifol hwn y mae ein cymunedau yn ei ddioddef?

Peter Black spoken in English p. 65

Peter Black siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 65

I am not replying on behalf of the Government of Wales. You need to take up that issue up with the Minister for Finance, Local Government and Communities. I understand that the coalfields regeneration fund will receive money from us next year, which will be tied in with Communities First. Previously, the money has been allocated by the Government of Wales, and has then been spent in Wales. The Barnett formula does not come into it. That is my understanding of the situation, although I am open to correction.

Nid wyf yn ateb ar ran Llywodraeth Cymru. Mae angen ichi fynd â’r mater hwnnw at y Gweinidog dros Gyllid, Llywodraeth Leol a Chymunedau. Deallaf y bydd cronfa adfywio’r meysydd glo yn cael arian gennym y flwyddyn nesaf, a fydd ynghlwm wrth Rhoi Cymunedau’n Gyntaf. Cyn hyn, mae’r arian wedi’i ddyrannu gan Lywodraeth Cymru, ac wedyn wedi’i wario yng Nghymru. Nid oes a wnelo fformiwla Barnett â hyn. Dyna sut y deallaf y sefyllfa, er fy mod yn fodlon cael fy nghywiro.

Brian Hancock spoken in English p. 66

Brian Hancock siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 66

The second programme in England is £45 million over three years. If 77 of the top 100 deprived wards with mining areas are in Wales then we should receive more money. If you add Barnett to the £45 million, we should receive a great deal more, around £2.9 million. I am told that last weekend, Edwina announced in the coalfields regeneration committee that she would provide £1 million for a year. If we had a receiving about £9.1 million.

Mae’r ail raglen yn Lloegr yn rhoi £45 miliwn dros dair blynedd. Os yw 77 o’r 100 ward mwyaf difreintiedig lle y mae ardaloedd glofaol yng Nghymru, yna dylem gael mwy o arian. Os ychwanegwch Barnett at y £45 miliwn, dylem gael llawer mwy, tua £2.9 miliwn. Deallaf fod Edwina, y penwythnos diwethaf, wedi cyhoeddi ym mhwyllgor adfywio’r meysydd glo y byddai’n darparu £1 filiwn am flwyddyn. Pe bai gennym fformiwla yn seiliedig ar y boblogaeth, dylem gael £9.1 miliwn.

Peter Black spoken in English p. 66

Peter Black siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 66

You do not understand the situation. We are putting £83 million into deprived communities through Communities First. We are tying the coalfields regeneration fund into that. That committee is working with us on that programme.

Nid ydych yn deall y sefyllfa. Yr ydym yn buddsoddi £83 miliwn mewn cymunedau difreintiedig drwy Rhoi Cymunedau’n Gyntaf. Cysylltwn gronfa adfywio’r meysydd glo â hynny. Mae’r pwyllgor hwnnw yn cydweithio â ni ar y rhaglen honno.

This budget shows what can be achieved as a result of the stability offered by the Liberal Democrat and Labour partnership. The budget has enabled the administration to concentrate on the key service areas of health and education, to use the Assembly’s limited powers to the full and to respond to the crises arising from flooding, foot and mouth disease and the closures at Corus, while ensuring that its key objectives are met. This budget demonstrates that the Welsh Liberal Democrats and Labour are making the Assembly work for Wales. It is about delivery and is clear about its priorities. Its commitment to Welsh solutions is brave. It is one that the Welsh Liberal Democrats are proud to support.

Dengys y gyllideb hon yr hyn y gellir ei gyflawni o ganlyniad i’r sefydlogrwydd a gynigir gan y bartneriaeth rhwng y Democratiaid Rhyddfrydol a Llafur. Mae’r gyllideb wedi galluogi’r weinyddiaeth i ganolbwyntio ar iechyd ac addysg, sef meysydd gwasanaeth allweddol, i ddefnyddio pwerau cyfyngedig y Cynulliad yn llawn ac i ymateb i’r argyfyngau a gododd yn sgîl y llifogydd, clwy’r traed a’r genau a chau gweithfeydd Corus, tra’n sicrhau bod ei hamcanion allweddol yn cael eu cyflawni. Dengys y gyllideb hon fod Democratiaid Rhyddfrydol Cymru a Llafur yn gwneud i’r Cynulliad weithio dros Gymru. Cyflawni addewidion sydd wrth wraidd y gyllideb hon ac mae’n glir ynglŷn â’i blaenoriaethau. Mae’r ymrwymiad i atebion penodol Gymreig yn ddewr. Mae’n gyllideb y mae Democratiaid Rhyddfrydol Cymru yn falch o’i chefnogi.

Nick Bourne spoken in English p. 66

Nick Bourne siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 66

After hearing that contribution, I am beginning to understand why the Liberal Democrats get up the nose of the Labour Party. We now know that it is as a result of the Liberal Democrats that Wales has been saved. I hope that the Labour Party is grateful for that. It is now a Liberal Democrat-led Government and I hope that they appreciate being in Government for once because they take the role of opposition so seriously. They oppose the Government from within and then when there is any credit to be taken, they try to take it. They get up my nose—

Ar ôl clywed y cyfraniad hwnnw, yr wyf yn dechrau deall pam y mae’r Democratiaid Rhyddfrydol yn codi gwrychyn y Blaid Lafur. Gwyddom bellach mai i’r Democratiaid Rhyddfrydol y mae’r diolch am achub Cymru. Gobeithiaf fod y Blaid Lafur yn ddiolchgar am hynny. Llywodraeth dan arweiniad y Democratiaid Rhyddfrydol ydyw bellach a gobeithiaf eu bod yn gwerthfawrogi bod mewn grym am unwaith oherwydd maent yn cymryd rôl yr wrthblaid gymaint o ddifrif. Gwrthwynebant y Llywodraeth oddi mewn ac yna pan fo clod i’w hawlio, ceisiant wneud hynny. Codant fy ngwrychyn—

Michael German spoken in English p. 67

Michael German siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 67

That is the best news of the day.

Dyna’r newyddion gorau a glywsom heddiw.

Nick Bourne spoken in English p. 67

Nick Bourne siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 67

Thank you ‘Flash German’—saving the world in a few minutes.

Diolch ‘Flash German’—am achub y byd mewn ychydig o funudau.

I thank Edwina for the openness that she always displays. The background circumstances to this budget in Wales are foot and mouth disease and the downturn in the economy, whether we call it a recession or not—I may well differ from the First Minister on that. There is no doubt that manufacturing industry has turned down in the last two quarters according to Office for National Statistics figures and we agree on that.

Diolchaf i Edwina am fod mor agored fel y mae bob amser. Y cefndir i’r gyllideb hon yng Nghymru yw clwy’r traed a’r genau a’r dirywiad yn yr economi, pa un ai dirwasgiad yw’r gair a ddefnyddiwn ai peidio—mae’n bosibl iawn fy mod yn anghydweld â Phrif Weinidog Cymru ar hynny. Heb os nac oni bai mae’r diwydiant gweithgynhyrchu wedi dirywio yn ystod y ddau chwarter diwethaf yn ôl ffigurau’r Swyddfa Ystadegau Gwladol a chytunwn ar hynny.

Given that background, you would expect substantial increases in the budget for economic development and agriculture, but they are not included. That is my starting point. We will support both amendments. We will support amendment 2 on the condition that it does not mean an out-and-out review of the Barnett formula because, before we enter that game, we want to be certain that Wales will get a better, larger share of the cake rather than a smaller one. I need to be satisfied on that before I sign my party up to that review. However, there is no doubt that Barnettising the expenditure does not make sense in certain key areas, such as foot and mouth disease, flooding, and possibly the downturn in the economy. Therefore, I believe that we need a review. If all the parties can agree to that, it will be all the better for Wales and the UK.

O gofio’r cefndir hwnnw, byddech yn disgwyl cynnydd sylweddol yn y gyllideb ar gyfer datblygu economaidd ac amaethyddiaeth, ond nid felly. Dyna fy man cychwyn. Cefnogwn y ddau welliant. Cefnogwn welliant 2 ar yr amod nad yw’n golygu adolygiad llwyr o fformiwla Barnett oherwydd, cyn inni ddechrau gwneud hynny, yr ydym am sicrhau y caiff Cymru gyfran fwy, well yn hytrach na chyfran lai. Rhaid imi fod yn fodlon ar hynny cyn imi ymrwymo fy mhlaid i’r adolygiad hwnnw. Fodd bynnag, heb os nac oni bai nid yw Barneteiddio’r gwariant yn gwneud synnwyr mewn rhai meysydd allweddol, fel clwy’r traed a’r genau, llifogydd, ac o bosibl y dirywiad yn yr economi. Felly, credaf fod angen adolygiad arnom. Os gall pob plaid gytuno ar hynny, gorau oll i Gymru a’r DU.

There is some good news in the budget and there are certain aspects that we welcome. However, there has been a substantial roll forward of underspends in key areas, namely health, education and economic development. I accept that that may only represent 3 per cent of the expenditure across the board, but it is more in key areas. Those underspends are not in the interest of Wales, particularly in the key areas of education and health—the key public service areas where we know that the waiting list position is dire and the ambulance response time is far slower than in England. We must ensure that our resources are used fully. I accept that if we do not, it will weaken our case when we ask the Treasury for more money.

Mae rhywfaint o newyddion da yn y gyllideb ac mae rhai agweddau a groesawn. Fodd bynnag, cafodd symiau sylweddol o arian nas gwariwyd eu cario ymlaen mewn meysydd allweddol, sef ym maes iechyd, addysg a datblygu economaidd. Derbyniaf mai dim ond 3 y cant o’r gwariant cyffredinol ydyw, ond mae’n fwy mewn meysydd allweddol. Nid yw’r achosion hynny o danwario o fudd i Gymru, yn benodol ym meysydd allweddol addysg a iechyd—sef y meysydd gwasanaeth cyhoeddus allweddol lle y gwyddom fod sefyllfa’r rhestrau aros yn enbyd a bod amser ymateb ambiwlansys dipyn yn arafach nag yn Lloegr. Rhaid inni sicrhau bod ein hadnoddau yn cael eu defnyddio’n llawn. Derbyniaf os na wnawn hynny y bydd ein dadl gymaint yn wannach pan ofynnwn i’r Trysorlys am fwy o arian.

I do not think that the raiding of reserves has been mentioned, but they have been reduced by 80 per cent. I question the wisdom of that. We know that contingencies arise and that we cannot possibly predict the next ones, but, over the last year, we have experienced floods and foot and mouth disease, and the terrorist atrocities will no doubt have some economic impact on the UK and Wales. Therefore, I question the wisdom of raiding reserves to any extent, but certainly to this extent. Will the Minister comment on how what is effectively a contingency can be run down by such an amount?

Ni chredaf fod ysbeilio cronfeydd wedi’i grybwyll, ond maent wedi’u lleihau 80 y cant. Amheuaf ddoethineb hynny. Gwyddom fod costau annisgwyl yn codi ac nad yw’n bosibl inni ragweld pryd y bydd hynny’n digwydd nesaf, ond, dros y flwyddyn ddiwethaf, cawsom lifogydd a chlwy’r traed a’r genau, ac yn sicr bydd yr anfadwaith terfysgol yn cael rhyw effaith economaidd ar y DU a Chymru. Felly, amheuaf ddoethineb ysbeilio cronfeydd i unrhyw raddau, ond yn sicr i’r graddau hyn. A esbonia’r Gweinidog sut y gellir lleihau’r hyn sydd, i bob pwrpas, yn gronfa wrth gefn, i’r fath raddau?

I have already mentioned health and education, but in another key area of expenditure, namely agriculture, we are in a standstill position. Given the ravages that we have witnessed over the last year from foot and mouth disease, that is wrong. It is even more curious when you consider certain aspects of the agriculture budget. For example, given present circumstances, the reduction in the amount spent on small abattoirs is extraordinary. I do not know why that sum has been reduced by a substantial amount for the next two years. The Minister may be in a position to comment on that. There may be an explanation, but it seems extremely strange.

Yr wyf eisoes wedi sôn am iechyd ac addysg, ond mewn maes gwariant allweddol arall, sef amaethyddiaeth, yr ydym wedi sefyll yn yr unfan. O gofio’r effeithiau andwyol a welwyd dros y flwyddyn ddiwethaf yn sgîl clwy’r traed a’r genau, mae hynny’n anghywir. Mae’n fwy rhyfedd byth o ystyried rhai agweddau ar y gyllideb amaethyddol. Er enghraifft, o gofio’r amgylchiadau presennol, mae’r lleihad yn y swm a werir ar ladd-dai bach yn hynod. Ni wn pam mae’r swm hwnnw wedi’i leihau’n sylweddol am y ddwy flynedd nesaf. Efallai fod y Gweinidog mewn sefyllfa i sôn am hynny. Efallai fod esboniad, ond ymddengys yn hynod o ryfedd.

I see no evidence that Tir Gofal has been increased in the way that the Minister suggested unless there have been amendments to the budget papers that we received. Neither can I see any mention of the rate relief for business for next year. However, it has been indicated to me that these changes were made later. I welcome them, but businesses are also suffering this year. We must recognise that many businesses in rural Wales have had substantial decreases in income. We must ensure that there is additional assistance this year rather than simply concentrating on next year and the year after. I would be grateful if the Minister would comment on that in the context of what I appreciate are broader considerations for future expenditure.

Ni welaf dystiolaeth o gwbl fod cyllideb Tir Gofal wedi cynyddu yn y ffordd a awgrymwyd gan y Gweinidog oni bai bod y papurau cyllidebol a gawsom wedi’u diwygio. Ni welaf ychwaith sôn am y rhyddhad trethi busnes ar gyfer y flwyddyn nesaf. Fodd bynnag, yr wyf wedi cael gwybod i’r newidiadau hyn gael eu gwneud yn ddiweddarach. Fe’u croesawaf, ond mae busnesau hefyd yn dioddef eleni. Rhaid inni gydnabod bod llawer o fusnesau cefn gwlad Cymru wedi colli incwm sylweddol. Rhaid inni sicrhau bod cymorth ychwanegol eleni yn hytrach na chanolbwyntio ar y flwyddyn nesaf yn unig a’r flwyddyn wedyn. Byddwn yn ddiolchgar pe bai’r Gweinidog yn sôn am hynny yng nghyd-destun yr hyn sydd, a gwerthfawrogaf hynny, yn ystyriaethau ehangach ar gyfer gwariant yn y dyfodol.

On education, it is correct to say that the higher education budget is not a good one. I have spoken to university vice chancellors throughout Wales and they are unhappy with it. The Liberal Democrats, in particular, paint a rosy picture of a glorious education system, as if there are no problems. Primary class sizes are falling, but that is not the case in secondary classes according to the figures that we were given by the Library. It is being made less financially attractive for students to enter into higher education. Notwithstanding the Rees report, we are grappling with this problem. As you know, the Conservative Party would abolish tuition fees—plain and simple. That could easily be funded in Wales. It would cost £40 million in a full year. No messing around or tinkering is necessary. That is how to tackle student recruitment and poverty and attract students from all backgrounds. I just heard the Minister for Education and Lifelong Learning say, rather amusingly, that that was a middle-class measure. If it helps the middle class, Minister, it is a good thing, but it will help everybody. You will not engage me in a middle-class witch-hunt. That should not be the aim of any politician. We are here to serve all the people of Wales and abolishing tuition fees across the board would do that.

O ran addysg, mae’n gywir dweud nad yw’r gyllideb addysg uwch yn un dda. Yr wyf wedi siarad ag is-gangellorion prifysgolion ledled Cymru ac maent yn anhapus yn ei chylch. Mae’r Democratiaid Rhyddfrydol, yn enwedig, yn rhoi darlun gwych o system addysg ogoneddus, fel pe na bai problemau o gwbl. Mae maint dosbarthiadau mewn ysgolion cynradd yn gostwng, ond nid felly mewn dosbarthiadau mewn ysgolion uwchradd yn ôl y ffigurau a roddwyd inni gan y Llyfrgell. Mae addysg uwch yn mynd yn llai deniadol i fyfyrwyr yn ariannol. Er gwaethaf adroddiad Rees, yr ydym yn dal i fynd i’r afael â’r broblem hon. Fel y gwyddoch, byddai’r Blaid Geidwadol yn diddymu ffïoedd hyfforddiant—dyna’r gwir plaen. Gellid ariannu hynny yn hawdd yng Nghymru. Costiai £40 miliwn mewn blwyddyn lawn. Nid oes angen chwarae o gwmpas na thincera. Dyna’r ffordd i fynd i’r afael â phroblemau o ran recriwtio myfyrwyr a thlodi ymhlith myfyrwyr a denu myfyrwyr o bob cefndir. Yr wyf newydd glywed y Gweinidog dros Addysg a Dysgu Gydol Oes yn dweud yn ddifyr iawn mai mesur dosbarth canol oedd hwnnw. Os yw’n helpu’r dosbarth canol, Weinidog, mae’n beth da, ond bydd yn helpu pawb. Ni lwyddwch i’m dal yn erlid y dosbarth canol. Ni ddylai hynny fod yn nod i unrhyw wleidydd. Yr ydym yma i wasanaethu holl bobl Cymru a byddai diddymu ffïoedd hyfforddiant yn gyffredinol yn gwneud hynny.

There is welcome news on the roads budget. I am glad that fresh money has been allocated to roads. I hope that that will be reflected in the need for improved roads in Wales, particularly the link road to Cardiff airport, which must be a high priority for economic development reasons. I agree with the Minister that people should be able to travel to work more easily, therefore I make a constituency plea for relief roads in Talgarth, Builth Wells and Rhayader. I know that it is now a custom, set by Dafydd Wigley, to raise a constituency concern. Those three areas need attention.

Mae newyddion i’w groesawu ar y gyllideb ar gyfer ffyrdd. Yr wyf yn falch bod arian newydd wedi’i ddyrannu i’r ffyrdd. Gobeithiaf y caiff hynny ei adlewyrchu yn yr angen am ffyrdd gwell yng Nghymru, yn benodol y ffordd gyswllt â maes awyr Caerdydd, y mae’n rhaid iddi fod yn flaenoriaeth uchel am resymau datblygu economaidd. Cytunaf â’r Gweinidog y dylai pobl allu teithio i’r gwaith yn haws, felly apeliaf ar ran fy etholaeth am ffyrdd lliniaru yn Nhalgarth, Llanfair ym Muallt a Rhaeadr Gwy. Gwn ei bod yn arfer bellach, a sefydlwyd gan Dafydd Wigley, i godi mater sydd o bryder i etholaeth. Mae angen sylw ar y tair ardal honno.

I will turn to one omission. It has been touched on earlier today and I do not want to dwell on it, but I wonder whether the Minister might want to mention the new Assembly building and how she intends to deal with it. I am sure that she will welcome the opportunity to do so, because she has a deserved reputation for openness, and that she will want to make a statement on the current position. My party has not been represented on the new Assembly building committee, for reasons that everybody knows, but there is a broader issue about the Assembly’s responsibility and liabilities and about knowing in which direction we are going. I would welcome an indication of how she proposes to deal with this in the context of the budget.

Trof at un mater a hepgorwyd. Fe’i crybwyllwyd yn gynharach heddiw ac nid wyf am oedi gyda’r mater, ond tybed a hoffai’r Gweinidog sôn am adeilad newydd y Cynulliad a sut y bwriada ymdrin â’r mater. Yr wyf yn siŵr y croesawa’r cyfle i wneud hynny, oherwydd mae ganddi enw am fod yn agored, a hynny’n gwbl haeddiannol, ac y bydd am wneud datganiad ar y sefyllfa bresennol. Nid yw fy mhlaid wedi’i chynrychioli ar bwyllgor adeilad newydd y Cynulliad, am resymau sy’n hysbys i bawb, ond mae mater ehangach ynglŷn â chyfrifoldebau a rhwymedigaethau’r Cynulliad ac o ran gwybod i ba gyfeiriad yr awn. Croesawn awgrym o’r ffordd y bwriada ymdrin â hyn yng nghyd-destun y gyllideb.

All in all, there is some good news, as you would expect in a budget. We now know that that is all down to the Liberal Democrats, so we thank them for all they have been doing in the corridors of power—or outside the corridors of power, in the case of their leader. However, it is fair to say that there are also problems, in particular in terms of rolling forward money and raiding the reserves. I would be grateful if the Minister would address those issues when she replies.

Yn gyffredinol, mae rhywfaint o newyddion da, fel y disgwyliech mewn cyllideb. Gwyddom bellach mai i’r Democratiaid Rhyddfrydol y mae’r diolch am hynny i gyd, felly diolchwn iddynt am bopeth a wnaethpwyd ganddynt yng nghoridorau pŵer—neu y tu allan i goridorau pŵer, yn achos eu harweinydd. Fodd bynnag, mae’n deg dweud bod problemau hefyd, yn benodol o ran cario arian ymlaen ac ysbeilio’r cronfeydd. Byddwn yn ddiolchgar pe bai’r Gweinidog yn ymdrin â’r materion hynny wrth ateb.

Rosemary Butler spoken in English p. 70

Rosemary Butler siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 70

This budget is an exemplar of sound financial management. Edwina’s determination to work in partnership and to listen to people outside the Assembly and across Wales is much appreciated. I will not make a bid for my constituency; I will just send her a letter with all my requests later.

Mae’r gyllideb hon yn batrwm o reoli ariannol cadarn. Gwerthfawrogir penderfyniad Edwina i weithio mewn partneriaeth a gwrando ar bobl y tu allan i’r Cynulliad a ledled Cymru. Ni wnaf gais ar ran fy etholaeth; dim ond anfon llythyr ati gyda’m holl ofynion yn ddiweddarach.

However, I will concentrate on a particular aspect. The Assembly is committed to eradicating poverty, delivering equality of opportunity and upgrading skills. Edwina’s budget is designed to address all those. However, if we are to achieve any or all of these aims, we must ensure that we have a Wales-wide net of high-quality and accessible childcare. Many women attend Workers’ Educational Association courses throughout Wales, and develop their skills and their confidence. However, their crèche provision is under threat across the country. In my constituency the cost of crèche facility or childcare discourages women from entering higher education. Crèche or childcare facilities are often the first item to be cut when budgets for adult education, community education or lifelong learning are squeezed. Can you, as Minister for Finance, influence the co-ordination of spending on childcare across Wales, specifically through the new ELWa budget?

Fodd bynnag, canolbwyntiaf ar agwedd benodol. Mae’r Cynulliad yn ymrwymedig i ddileu tlodi, sicrhau cyfle cyfartal ac uwchraddio sgiliau. Mae cyllideb Edwina wedi’i chynllunio i ymdrin â phob un ohonynt. Fodd bynnag, er mwyn inni gyflawni’r nodau hyn, rhaid inni sicrhau bod gennym rwydwaith gofal plant o safon, sy’n hawdd ei ddefnyddio, i Gymru gyfan. Mae llawer o ferched yn mynychu cyrsiau Mudiad Addysg y Gweithwyr ledled Cymru, ac yn datblygu eu sgiliau a’u hyder. Fodd bynnag, mae’r meithrinfeydd a ddarperir ganddynt dan fygythiad ledled y wlad. Yn fy etholaeth i mae cost meithrinfeydd neu ofal plant yn cadw merched rhag addysg uwch. Yn aml cyfleusterau meithrinfeydd neu ofal plant yw’r eitem gyntaf i’w chwtogi pan ddaw cyllidebau ar gyfer addysg oedolion, addysg gymunedol neu ddysgu gydol oes dan wasgfa. A allwch chi, fel Gweinidog dros Gyllid, ddylanwadu ar y ffordd y cydlynir gwariant ar ofal plant ledled Cymru, yn benodol drwy gyllideb newydd ELWa?

Phil Williams spoken in English p. 71

Phil Williams siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 71

When future historians, in a prosperous Wales, describe the record of the first Welsh Government, this budget will be key evidence. By then, with a much-envied baccalaureate, even historians will appreciate the importance of numbers, and they will know that numbers are unforgiving. Forget ‘Betterwales.com’ and the coalition agreement, they are just words; this budget indicates the real priorities of the Government. Do a simple sum: take any item from the proposed budget for 2003, divide that by the approved budget for 2000, and then calculate the average rate of increase over three years for all the items. You will then have this Government’s true long-term priorities.

Pan fydd haneswyr y dyfodol, mewn Cymru ffyniannus, yn disgrifio cofnod Llywodraeth gyntaf Cymru, bydd y gyllideb hon yn dystiolaeth allweddol. Erbyn hynny, a chanddynt fagloriaeth i genfigennu wrthi, bydd hyd yn oed haneswyr yn gwerthfawrogi pwysigrwydd rhifau, a gwyddant fod rhifau yn ddidrugaredd. Anghofiwch am ‘Gwellcymru.com’ a chytundeb y glymblaid, dim ond geiriau ydynt; dynoda’r gyllideb hon wir flaenoriaethau’r Llywodraeth. Gwnewch swm syml: cymerwch unrhyw eitem o’r gyllideb arfaethedig ar gyfer 2003, rhennwch honno gyda’r gyllideb a gymeradwywyd ar gyfer 2000, ac yna cyfrifwch gyfradd gyfartalog y cynnydd dros dair blynedd ar gyfer pob eitem. Yna bydd gennych flaenoriaethau tymor hir gwirioneddol y Llywodraeth hon.

As it happens, the top place goes to culture. The budget for culture is so small that you could double it without any noticeable effect on the main budget—but quality of life is transformed. Congratulations on that, and provisional congratulations on the budget for information and communications technology. I await eagerly for the details because I worry about the increasing gap between ICT infrastructure in Wales and that elsewhere.

Fel y mae’n digwydd, diwylliant sydd ar ben y domen. Mae’r gyllideb ar gyfer diwylliant mor fach y gallech ei dyblu heb effaith amlwg ar y brif gyllideb—ond trawsnewidir ansawdd bywyd. Llongyfarchiadau ar hynny, a llongyfarchiadau dros dro ar y gyllideb ar gyfer technoleg gwybodaeth a chyfathrebu. Disgwyliaf yn awchus am y manylion oherwydd pryderaf ynglŷn â’r bwlch cynyddol rhwng seilwaith TGCh yng Nghymru ac mewn mannau eraill.

However, of the big spenders, health is given priority. More than half the extra money that you have allocated goes to health. Nothing has stung this administration more painfully than the huge increase in waiting lists. We are now 19 months from an election, and the Government’s response is to give a great deal of new money to health. That approach can be characteristic of a stop-go philosophy, which has afflicted all Labour governments. If you cut public spending to the bone for three years, then give a big increase in one year, there is no way that the systems can spend the money effectively. That is at least part of the explanation of the £54 million underspend on health last year. Allocating an increase of over £320 million this year is welcome, but it is no guarantee that that money will be spent.

Fodd bynnag, o blith y gwarwyr mawr, rhoddir y flaenoriaeth i iechyd. Aiff mwy na hanner yr arian ychwanegol a ddyrannwyd gennych i iechyd. Nid oes dim wedi clwyfo’r weinyddiaeth hon yn fwy na’r cynnydd enfawr mewn rhestrau aros. Bellach mae gennym 19 o fisoedd cyn etholiad, ac ymateb y Llywodraeth yw rhoi llawer o arian newydd i iechyd. Gall yr ymagwedd honno nodweddu athroniaeth stop-mynd, sydd wedi blino pob Llywodraeth Lafur. Os torrwch wariant cyhoeddus at yr asgwrn am dair blynedd, ac yna roi cynnydd mawr mewn un flwyddyn, nid oes ffordd yn y byd y gall y systemau wario’r arian yn effeithiol. Mae hynny’n rhan o leiaf o’r esboniad am y £54 miliwn a danwariwyd ar iechyd y llynedd. Mae dyrannu cynnydd o dros £320 miliwn eleni i’w groesawu, ond nid yw’n gwarantu y caiff yr arian hwnnw ei wario.

Brian Gibbons spoken in English p. 72

Brian Gibbons siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 72

Looking at the empirical figures, health expenditure over the last two or three years has increased between 7 and 10 per cent, so I do not know what you are talking about.

O edrych ar y ffigurau empiraidd, mae’r gwariant ar iechyd dros y ddwy neu dair blynedd ddiwethaf wedi cynyddu rhwng 7 a 10 y cant, felly ni wn am beth yr ydych yn sôn.

Phil Williams spoken in English p. 72

Phil Williams siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 72

There is a large shortfall at present; an average of 10 to 11 per cent, I think, in cash terms. All I want is a guarantee that what is in the budget will be reflected by a real increase in spending, and actually deliver better health.

Ceir diffyg mawr ar hyn o bryd; cyfartaledd o 10 i 11 y cant, mi gredaf, mewn termau arian parod. Y cyfan yr wyf yn gofyn amdano yw sicrwydd y caiff yr hyn sydd yn y gyllideb ei adlewyrchu gan gynnydd gwirioneddol mewn gwariant, gan sicrhau iechyd gwell mewn gwirionedd.

I turn to the budget lines that are at the bottom of the list, especially higher education. I declare an interest as a university professor, but my concern is as Plaid’s spokesperson for economic development. One aspect of the draft national economic development strategy that we applauded was the commitment to a knowledge-based, science-driven economy. That is why the Economic Development Committee answered the invitation to bid for extra money by recommending that any extra funds should not go to economic development, but to higher education and research. However, the Economic Development Committee’s unanimous recommendation was ignored.

Trof at y llinellau cyllidebol sydd ar waelod y rhestr, yn arbennig addysg uwch. Datganaf fuddiant fel athro prifysgol, ond yn rhinwedd fy swydd fel llefarydd Plaid Cymru dros Ddatblygu Economaidd yr wyf yn pryderu. Un agwedd ar y strategaeth datblygu economaidd geenedlaethol ddrafft a gymeradwywyd gennym oedd yr ymrwymiad i economi yn seiliedig ar wybodaeth, ac a lywir gan wyddoniaeth. Dyna pam yr atebodd y Pwyllgor Datblygu Economaidd y gwahoddiad i wneud cais am arian ychwanegol drwy argymell na ddylai mwy o arian fynd i ddatblygu economaidd, ond i addysg uwch ac ymchwil. Fodd bynnag, anwybyddwyd argymhelliad unfrydol y Pwyllgor Datblygu Economaidd.

You will see today that, in the distribution of extra money, not a single penny has been given yet to the Higher Education Funding Council for Wales in the main budget line, and the research budget under the knowledge exploitation fund is more or less flat for five years. I welcome the fact that Edwina is holding onto a sum in reserve for higher education. Otherwise, that will be the exact spot where this Government’s aspirations fall apart.

Gwelwch heddiw na roddwyd yr un geiniog eto, wrth ddosbarthu arian ychwanegol, i Gyngor Cyllido Addysg Uwch Cymru ym mhrif linell y gyllideb, ac mae’r gyllideb ymchwil o dan y gronfa manteisio ar wybodaeth yn wastad fwy neu lai am bum mlynedd. Croesawaf y ffaith bod Edwina yn dal ei gafael ar swm wrth gefn ar gyfer addysg uwch. Fel arall, dyna’r union fan lle y bydd dyheadau’r Llywodraeth hon yn chwalu.

Finally, I draw attention to one other aspect of the budget, namely European funding. At the time of the spending review, we predicted that the money passed on in addition to the Barnett formula would fall short of the money received for European projects in Wales. Last year, we paid out £68 million in European grants but received £21 million from London. Gordon Brown kept £46 million commissioned.

Yn olaf, tynnaf sylw at un agwedd arall ar y gyllideb, sef arian Ewropeaidd. Ar adeg yr adolygiad o wariant, rhagwelwyd gennym y byddai’r arian a gâi ei drosglwyddo i Gymru ar ben fformiwla Barnett yn llai na’r arian a gâi ei dderbyn ar gyfer prosiectau Ewropeaidd yng Nghymru. Y llynedd, talwyd £68 miliwn mewn grantiau Ewropeaidd ond £21 miliwn a gawsom gan Lundain. Cadwodd Gordon Brown £46 miliwn wedi’i gomisiynu.

What about this year? The Welsh European Funding Office estimates that, by 1 December, we will have spent £107 million on Objectives 1 and 3. I guess that, by April, that figure will rise to about £130 million. Add to that the £47 million of overhang from the previous programme that we have already committed. I also understand that Europe is pressing hard to accelerate the payment of the remaining £75 million of overhang. Therefore, the likely call on WEFO will be at least £180 million and could be as high as £190 million, depending on how quickly people get their claims in.

Beth am eleni? Amcangyfrifa Swyddfa Gyllid Ewropeaidd Cymru y byddwn, erbyn 1 Rhagfyr, wedi gwario £107 miliwn ar Amcanion 1 a 3. Mae’n debyg y bydd y ffigur hwnnw, erbyn mis Ebrill, yn codi i ryw £130 miliwn. Ychwanegwch at hynny y £47 miliwn o drosgrog o’r rhaglen flaenorol a ddyrannwyd eisoes gennym. Deallaf hefyd fod Ewrop yn taer bwyso i gyflymu’r broses o dalu’r £75 miliwn o drosgrog sy’n weddill. Felly, mae’n debygol y bydd ceisiadau gwerth £180 miliwn o leiaf gan y Swyddfa ac efallai gymaint â £190 miliwn, yn dibynnu ar ba mor gyflym y gwna pobl eu ceisiadau.

Plaid predicted those figures 15 years ago. They must be compared with the £113 million that we are receiving on top of Barnett from Gordon Brown. That is the money that has been taken out of the education budget. Over the four years from 2000 to 2004, we will have to pay £600 million to top-up European grants and match funding for European programmes. That is the shortfall in education spending. That, in a nutshell, is the story of this budget.

Rhagwelodd Plaid y ffigurau hynny 15 mlynedd yn ôl. Rhaid eu cymharu â’r £113 miliwn a gawn ar ben Barnett gan Gordon Brown. Dyna’r arian sydd wedi’i gymryd o’r gyllideb addysg. Dros y pedair blynedd o 2000 i 2004, bydd yn rhaid inni dalu £600 miliwn i grantiau Ewrop ychwanegol ac arian cyfatebol ar gyfer rhaglenni Ewropeaidd. Dyna’r diffyg yn y gwariant ar addysg. Dyna, ei grynswth, hanes y gyllideb.

Val Lloyd spoken in English p. 73

Val Lloyd siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 73

My contribution will be much shorter than some and not as erudite as that of my new neighbour in the Chamber, Phil Williams. I welcome the budget in general terms but, in particular, I thank and compliment Edwina for allocating £6 million to support the development of the National Maritime and Industrial Museum in Swansea. That is welcome. That initiative not only acknowledges the value of our national heritage, but will be an excellent boost for tourism. It will also bring attendant benefits for ancillary services in a range of sectors. Although it is only a minute part of the budget, it is welcome for Swansea and the rest of Wales.

Bydd fy nghyfraniad i yn llawer byrrach na rhai ac ni fydd mor hyddysg â chyfraniad fy nghymydog newydd yn y Siambr, Phil Williams. Croesawaf y gyllideb yn gyffredinol ond, yn benodol, hoffwn ddiolch i Edwina a’i chanmol am ddyrannu £6 miliwn i gefnogi’r gwaith o ddatblygu’r Amgueddfa Diwydiant a Môr Genedlaethol yn Abertawe. Rhaid croesawu hynny. Mae’r fenter honno nid yn unig yn cydnabod gwerth ein treftadaeth genedlaethol, ond bydd yn hwb ardderchog i dwristiaeth. Daw manteision hefyd i wasanaethau cynorthwyol mewn amrywiaeth o sectorau yn sgîl hynny. Er mai dim ond rhan fach iawn ydyw o’r gyllideb, mae croeso i hyn yn Abertawe ac yng ngweddill Cymru.

John Marek The Deputy Presiding Officer spoken in English p. 74

John Marek Y Dirprwy Lywydd siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 74

That was an excellent speech; it was delivered without wasting any time. I now call on Glyn Davies.

Yr oedd honno yn araith ardderchog; fe’i traddodwyd heb wastraffu amser o gwbl. Galwaf yn awr ar Glyn Davies.

Glyn Davies spoken in English p. 74

Glyn Davies siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 74

Thank you for the opportunity to speak. However, as I did not know that I would be invited to speak and have not had time to prepare, can I defer my contribution for a few minutes, or not contribute at all?

Diolch am y cyfle i siarad. Fodd bynnag, gan na wyddwn y cawn wahoddiad i siarad ac nad wyf wedi cael amser i baratoi, a gaf ohirio fy nghyfraniad am ychydig o funudau, neu beidio â chyfrannu o gwbl?

John Marek The Deputy Presiding Officer spoken in English p. 74

John Marek Y Dirprwy Lywydd siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 74

In that case, you had better not contribute at all.

Os felly, gwell ichi beidio â chyfrannu o gwbl.

Elin Jones siaradwyd yn Gymraeg t. 74

Elin Jones spoken in Welsh p. 74

Synnaf nad oes gan Gadeirydd y Pwyllgor Amaethyddiaeth a Datblygu Gwledig sylwadau ar y gyllideb.

I am surprised that the Chair of the Agriculture and Rural Development Committee has no comments to make on the budget.

Canolbwyntiaf ar gefn gwlad ac amaethyddiaeth. Dros yr wyth mis diwethaf, mae Gweinidogion wedi sôn llawer am ddifrifoldeb yr argyfwng amaeth, effeithiau clwy’r traed a’r genau ar yr economi wledig a’r angen i sicrhau dyfodol llewyrchus i ffermio a chefn gwlad. Fodd bynnag, o edrych ar y gyllideb hon, ni sylwech fod clwy’r traed a’r genau wedi digwydd. Mae’r gyllideb amaeth yn cynyddu o ryw £2.5 miliwn yn unig, a hynny ar adeg pan fo incwm ffermydd teuluol ar gyfartaledd wedi cwympo i tua £2,500 y flwyddyn, sef £50 yr wythnos.

I will focus on rural affairs and agriculture. Over the past eight months, Ministers have spoken at length about the gravity of the agricultural crisis, the effects of foot and mouth disease on the rural economy and the need to secure a prosperous future for farming and rural areas. However, from looking at this budget, you would not notice that foot and mouth disease had occurred. The agriculture budget is increasing by about £2.5 million only, at a time when the average income of family farms has fallen to about £2,500 per annum, or £50 per week.

Cyhoeddodd y Llywodraeth gynllun adfywio gwledig gwerth £65 miliwn, ond mae diffyg tryloywder y gyllideb hon yn ei gwneud hi bron yn amhosibl inni sicrhau bod yr arian hwnnw wir yn ychwanegol i gyllideb flaenorol amaethyddiaeth. Mae sawl cwestiwn yn codi o gyllideb mor gyffredinol. Er enghraifft, £20.5 miliwn yw gwaelodlin cyllideb Bwrdd Croeso Cymru ar gyfer 2002-03, fel y’i cyhoeddwyd y llynedd. Mae’r gyllideb am 2002-03, a gyhoeddwyd heddiw, hefyd yn £20.5 miliwn. Dim newid, felly, er y caiff Bwrdd Croeso Cymru £2 filiwn ychwanegol o’r cynllun adfywio gwledig ar gyfer 2002-03. Ble mae’r £2 filiwn hynny? Nid yw’n ymddangos fel arian ychwanegol o gwbl. Gallai’r Gweinidog ddweud mai o’r hyblygrwydd diwedd blwyddyn y daw’r arian ychwanegol hwn, ond, ym mha le yn y gyllideb y mae hynny, yn enwedig yng nghyd-destun Bwrdd Croeso Cymru? Mae’r Llywodraeth yn aml yn hunan-ganmoliaethus am ei thryloywder, ond mae’r gyllideb yn bell o fod yn dryloyw, sydd yn arwain dyn i feddwl bod ganddi rhywbeth i’w gwato.

The Government announced a rural recovery plan worth £65 million, but this budget’s lack of transparency makes it almost impossible for us to be confident that that money is truly additional to the previous agriculture budget. Several questions arise from such a general budget. For example, the Wales Tourist Board’s budget baseline is £20.5 million for 2002-03, as announced last year. The budget for 2002-03, announced today, is also £20.5 million. There is no change, then, despite the provision of an additional £2 million to the Wales Tourist Board for 2002-03 from the rural recovery plan. Where is that £2 million? It does not appear to be additional money at all. The Minister could say that this additional money comes from the end year flexibility, but where is that in the budget, particularly in the context of the Wales Tourist Board? The Government often praises itself for its transparency, but the budget is far from transparent, which leads one to think that it has something to hide.

A wnaiff y Gweinidog dros Gyllid roi sicrwydd na ddefnyddiwyd arian Amcan 1 fel rhan o’r cynllun adfywio gwledig? Tua’r adeg y cyhoeddwyd y byddai Bwrdd Croeso Cymru a’r WDA yn derbyn arian o’r cynllun hwnnw, cadarnhawyd y byddai’r ddau gorff hyn yn derbyn symiau hynod debyg at amcanion hynod debyg gan Bwyllgor Monitro Rhaglenni Amcan 1. Os na fedr y Gweinidog ymateb i’r pwynt hwnnw heddiw, byddaf yn chwilio am gyfleoedd i’w godi yn y dyfodol, gan ei bod yn gwbl amhriodol defnyddio arian Amcan 1 a’i wisgo fel cyllid domestig o dan faner y cynllun adfywio gwledig.

Will the Minister for Finance give an assurance that Objective 1 funding was not used as part of the rural recovery plan? Around the time that funding for the Wales Tourist Board and the WDA was announced under that scheme, it was confirmed that the two bodies would also receive remarkably similar sums for remarkably similar purposes from the Objective 1 Programme Monitoring Committee. If the Minister is not able to respond to that point today, I will seek opportunities to raise it in future, as it is wholly inappropriate to use Objective 1 money and dress it up as domestic finance under the banner of the rural recovery plan.

Yr oedd y cynllun adfywio yn gwbl annigonol beth bynnag o ran mynd i’r afael ag argyfwng incwm ffermwyr. Nid oedd y nesaf peth i ddim ynddo i ffermwyr. Yr oedd y gyllideb hon yn gyfle i wneud yn iawn am y sefyllfa honno, ond ni wnaeth hynny. Yn sgîl clwy’r traed a’r genau, dylid bod wedi manteisio ar y cyfle i ychwanegu yn sylweddol at gyllideb Tir Gofal, a chaniatáu i fwy o ffermwyr gymryd rhan yn y cynllun er budd i’w hincwm ac er mwyn hybu arferion amaethyddol mwy cydnaws â’r amgylchedd.

The recovery plan was completely inadequate in any case to deal with the crisis of farmers’ income. There was next to nothing in it for farmers. This budget was an opportunity to rectify that situation, but that was not done. In the wake of foot and mouth disease, the opportunity should have been seized to add considerably to the Tir Gofal budget and allow more farmers to take part in the scheme, in order to boost their incomes and to promote agricultural practices that are more attuned to the environment.

Hoffem hefyd fod wedi gweld cyllideb penodol am flwyddyn yn unig i ailsefydlu a hybu marchnadoedd da byw, unwaith y daw’r gwaharddiad presennol ar eu gweithgaredd i ben. Yn fy etholaeth, mae wyth o farchnadoedd da byw yn chwarae rhan allweddol ym mywyd economaidd a chymdeithasol cefn gwlad. Ni fydd yn hawdd ailsefydlu’r marchnadoedd hynny. Byddai cyllideb moderneiddio a hybu’r marchnadoedd hynny wedi bod yn gam pwysig i’w hailfywiogi.

We would also have liked to have seen a specific budget for one year only to re-establish and promote livestock markets, once the present ban on their activities is lifted. In my constituency, eight livestock markets play a vital role the economic and social life of the countryside. It will not be easy for those markets to be re-established. A modernising and promotional budget for those markets would have been an important step in revitalising them.

Cyfeiriaf at ddatganiad y Prif Weinidog ddydd Mawrth ar raglen fusnes flynyddol y Cynulliad. Soniodd am un o brif amcanion y cynllun adfywio gwledig, sef y bwriad i greu polisïau i ddenu pobl ifanc yn ôl i gefn gwlad a’u cadw yno. Mae hynny’n gymeradwy iawn, ond ble y mae’r arian ar gyfer amcanion o’r fath? Nid oes dim byd penodol yn y gyllideb ar gyfer hynny. Gwn y gall ffermwyr ifanc gael ambell bwynt Tir Gofal ychwanegol a chanran bach yn uwch ar gyfer ambell grant amaethyddol, ond, unwaith eto eleni, nid oes dim ar gyfer cynllun mynediad i ffermwyr ifanc. Nid oes yr un arwydd sicrach o ddiffyg y Llywodraeth hon, Llafur a Democratiaid Rhyddfrydol, i ymrwymo’n llawn i ddyfodol amaeth—

I refer to the First Minister’s statement on Tuesday on the Assembly’s annual business programme. He spoke of one of the recovery plan’s main objectives, namely the intention to draw up policies to attract young people back to the countryside and to keep them there. That is highly commendable, but where is the money for such objectives? There is nothing in the budget specifically for that. I know that young farmers can have the occasional extra point for Tir Gofal and a small percentage more for the occasional agricultural grant, but, once again this year, there is nothing for a young farmers’ new entrants scheme. There is no surer sign of this Government’s failure, Labour and Liberal Democrat, to commit fully to the future of agriculture—

John Marek The Deputy Presiding Officer spoken in English p. 76

John Marek Y Dirprwy Lywydd siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 76

Order. You have had five minutes. Please sum up in two sentences, as time is tight on this debate.

Trefn. Yr ydych wedi cael pum munud. A wnewch ddirwyn i ben mewn dwy frawddeg, gan fod amser yn dynn yn y ddadl hon.

Elin Jones siaradwyd yn Gymraeg t. 76

Elin Jones spoken in Welsh p. 76

Mae’r gyllideb hon yn annigonol ar gyfer y gymuned wledig. Dylai pob Aelod gofio hynny wrth bleidleisio heddiw. Disgrifiodd y Democratiaid Rhyddfrydol y gyllideb hon fel ‘a good news story’ ar gyfer cefn gwlad, ond nid wyf o’r un farn â hwy.

This budget is inadequate for the rural community. Every Member should remember that when they vote today. The Liberal Democrats described this budget as ‘a good news story’ for the countryside, but I do not share their view.

Peter Law spoken in English p. 76

Peter Law siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 76

I congratulate the Minister on her good budget statement. It reflects her approach to social deprivation and poverty and I thank her for that. The Liberal Democrat contribution, on a scale of one to 10, is about minus three. [CONSERVATIVE ASSEMBLY MEMBERS: ‘Generous.’] Yes, it is generous.

Llongyfarchaf y Gweinidog ar ei datganiad da ar y gyllideb. Adlewyrcha ei hymagwedd tuag at amddifadedd cymdeithasol a thlodi a diolchaf iddi am hynny. Mae cyfraniad y Democratiaid Rhyddfrydol, ar raddfa o un i 10, tua minws tri. [AELODAU CEIDWADOL Y CYNULLIAD: ‘Hael.’] Ydyw, mae’n hael.

The Minister has done the best that she could with the available resources. She is continuing to target the areas of need. The figures that the Minister suggested for the local government settlement will be welcomed. The environment, planning and transport budget has also been praised. I welcome that budget, as local authorities will be able to tackle the backlog of repairs to roads. I hope that some of the money will be used to reintroduce a passenger rail service in my constituency.

Mae’r Gweinidog wedi gwneud y gorau y gallai gyda’r adnoddau a oedd ar gael. Mae’n parhau i dargedu’r meysydd lle y mae angen. Croesewir y ffigurau a awgrymwyd gan y Gweinidog ar gyfer y setliad llywodraeth leol. Mae cyllideb yr amgylchedd, cynllunio a thrafnidiaeth hefyd wedi’i chanmol. Croesawaf y gyllideb honno, gan y bydd yn bosibl i awdurdodau lleol fynd i’r afael â’r ôl-groniad o waith atgyweirio ffyrdd. Gobeithiaf y defnyddir rhywfaint o’r arian i ailgyflwyno gwasanaeth rheilffordd i deithwyr yn fy etholaeth.

On economic development, many parts of Wales are dispossessed in terms of information and communications technology. We must have broadband coverage, thus giving young people the opportunity that such technology provides. People in Blaenau Gwent, which is only about 45 miles away from Cardiff, are outside the loop of these new technologies.

O ran datblygu economaidd, mae llawer o rannau o Gymru yn amddifad yn nhermau technoleg gwybodaeth a chyfathrebu. Rhaid inni sicrhau bod technoleg band llydan ar gael yn eang, a thrwy hynny roi’r cyfle i bobl ifanc y mae technoleg o’r fath yn ei gynnig. Mae pobl Blaenau Gwent, sydd ond tua 45 milltir o Gaerdydd, y tu allan i ddolen y technolegau newydd hyn.

I welcome the budget for arts and culture. The Arts Council of Wales spent £200,000 in Blaenau Gwent last year. Members will therefore understand why I do not believe that £25 million of public money should be ploughed into the Wales Millennium Centre. The Minister for Culture, Sport and the Welsh Language sneaked out a statement on the centre at the end of the summer term without any vote being held. That was devious and unnecessary.

Croesawaf y gyllideb ar gyfer y celfyddydau a diwylliant. Gwariodd Cyngor Celfyddydau Cymru £200,000 ym Mlaenau Gwent y llynedd. Bydd yr Aelodau yn deall felly pam nad wyf o’r farn y dylid buddsoddi £25 miliwn o arian cyhoeddus yng Nghanolfan Mileniwm Cymru. Gwnaeth y Gweinidog dros Ddiwylliant, Chwaraeon a’r Gymraeg ddatganiad annisgwyl ar y ganolfan ar ddiwedd tymor yr haf heb i bleidlais gael ei chynnal o gwbl. Yr oedd hynny’n gyfrwys ac yn ddiangen.

The Minister recognises that the national health service is the highest priority. I am grateful for that—

Cydnabydda’r Gweinidog mai’r gwasanaeth iechyd gwladol yw’r flaenoriaeth uchaf. Yr wyf yn ddiolchgar am hynny—

Glyn Davies a gododd—

Glyn Davies rose—

Peter Law spoken in English p. 77

Peter Law siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 77

I will not take an intervention as I do not have enough time. As a recent patient in the national health service, I have great empathy with NHS patients and staff. This speech is from the heart. There are occasions when you must speak for the interests of the nation, not just for your political party. The national health service is one such special case, because it embraces all of us. It is a precious asset, which must not be used as a political football. We have heard that being done many times. I could have come to the Chamber today saying that I had been reconstructed as a Labour robocop who was sent here to hunt down the wicked Tories who dismantled the NHS. The national health service will touch all of our families and us at some time. I was cared for by Cardiff’s finest on ward West 5 at Llandough Hospital. I thank the staff for all their work. Their professional care reflects that of all NHS workers at establishments throughout Wales. We need an all-party approach to the national health service. That type of approach is reflected more in this building than in many other institutions in Wales. I compliment all parties on that.

Ni dderbyniaf ymyriad gan nad oes gennyf ddigon o amser. Fel un a fu’n glaf yn ddiweddar yn y gwasanaeth iechyd gwladol, cydymdeimlaf yn fawr â chleifion a staff yr NHS. Daw’r araith hon o’r galon. Mae adegau pan fo’n rhaid siarad dros fuddiannau’r genedl, nid dros eich plaid wleidyddol yn unig. Mae’r gwasanaeth iechyd gwladol yn un achos arbennig o’r fath, gan ei fod yn effeithio ar bob un ohonom. Mae’n ased gwerthfawr, na ddylid chwarae gêm wleidyddol ag ef. Clywsom hynny’n digwydd lawer gwaith. Gallwn fod wedi dod i’r Siambr heddiw yn dweud fy mod wedi fy ail-greu’n robocop Llafur a anfonwyd yma i ddod o hyd i’r Torïaid ysgeler a ddymchwelodd yr NHS. Bydd y gwasanaeth iechyd gwladol yn cyffwrdd â phob un o’n teuluoedd a ninnau ar ryw adeg. Gofalwyd amdanaf gan staff meddygol gorau Caerdydd ar ward Gorllewin 5 Ysbyty Llandochau. Diolchaf i’r staff am eu holl waith. Adlewyrcha eu gofal proffesiynol ofal holl weithwyr yr NHS mewn sefydliadau ledled Cymru. Mae angen ymagwedd drawsbleidiol arnom tuag at y gwasanaeth iechyd gwladol. Adlewyrchir y math hwnnw o ymagwedd yn fwy yn yr adeilad hwn nag mewn llawer o sefydliadau eraill yng Nghymru. Canmolaf bob plaid am hynny.

However, the NHS is a victim of its own success. Due to the development of modern technology and new solutions, it is a successful service. More money is spent per head on the NHS in Wales than in England. We have more doctors and nurses in Wales. Sadly, that is still not enough. The 90-year-old gentleman who was in the bed next to me while I was in hospital was having a second hip replacement. Twenty-five years ago, you would not have thought of having one hip replacement, let alone two. That is the success of the national health service. More and more people are living to be over 100 years old. If you do not believe me, look at Glyn Davies. Look around you in your communities. Many people live to these wonderful ages, and I compliment them on that. That is the great success of the NHS.

Fodd bynnag, mae’r NHS wedi syrthio i fagl ei lwyddiant ei hun. Yn sgîl datblygiad technoleg fodern ac atebion newydd i broblemau, mae’n wasanaeth llwyddiannus. Caiff mwy o arian ei wario y pen ar yr NHS yng Nghymru nag yn Lloegr. Mae gennym fwy o feddygon a nyrsys yng Nghymru. Yn anffodus, nid yw hynny’n ddigon o hyd. Yr oedd y gŵr 90 oed a oedd yn y gwely nesaf ataf tra yr oeddwn yn yr ysbyty yn cael ail glun newydd. Bum mlynedd ar hugain yn ôl, ni fyddech wedi meddwl am gael un glun newydd, heb sôn am ddwy. Dyna lwyddiant y gwasanaeth iechyd gwladol. Mae mwy a mwy o bobl yn byw i fod dros 100 oed. Os nad ydych yn fy nghredu, edrychwch ar Glyn Davies. Edrychwch o’ch cwmpas yn eich cymunedau. Mae llawer o bobl yn cyrraedd yr oedrannau bendigedig hyn, ac fe’u canmolaf am hynny. Dyna lwyddiant mawr yr NHS.

However, all this takes resources. Previous UK Governments, and the present one, have not been able to keep up with the success. The stark fact is that we need more beds and more nursing and other support staff. We must ensure that these are provided. The bursary scheme is an insult for those who want to train as nurses. The students have to moonlight to make ends meet. I am grateful for the support of the Minister for Health and Social Services, who has written to the UK Government regarding this issue.

Fodd bynnag, mae angen adnoddau ar gyfer hyn oll. Ni lwyddodd Llywodraethau blaenorol y DU, na’r Llywodraeth bresennol, i ddelio â’r llwyddiant. Y gwir amdani yw bod angen mwy o welyau arnom a mwy o staff nyrsio a staff cymorth eraill. Rhaid inni sicrhau y darperir y rhain. Mae’r cynllun bwrsariaeth yn sarhad i’r rhai sydd am hyfforddi fel nyrsys. Rhaid i’r myfyrwyr weithio gyda’r nos i gael deupen llinyn ynghyd. Yr wyf yn ddiolchgar i’r Gweinidog dros Iechyd a Gwasanaethau Cymdeithasol, sydd wedi ysgrifennu at Lywodraeth y DU ynglŷn â’r mater hwn.

We must consider these issues. The people whom we represent are in pain and are awaiting treatment. They expect these issues to be discussed in the Chamber today. We must remember that, while the Chancellor may be sitting on billions of pounds in the Treasury, people of all walks of life are suffering pain and discomfort over long periods. That is not acceptable. The answer is not to kick the UK Government in the teeth, as Plaid Cymru advocates. We must continue with skilful negotiations—

Rhaid inni ystyried y materion hyn. Mae’r bobl a gynrychiolwn mewn poen ac yn aros am driniaeth. Disgwyliant i’r materion hyn gael eu trafod yn y Siambr heddiw. Rhaid inni gofio, tra bo’r Canghellor yn eistedd ar biliynau o bunnoedd yn y Trysorlys, bod pobl o bob cefndir cymdeithasol yn dioddef poen ac anghysur dros gyfnodau hirfaith. Nid yw hynny’n dderbyniol. Nid sarhau Llywodraeth y DU yw’r ateb, fel y mae Plaid Cymru yn ei argymell. Rhaid inni barhau i negodi’n ddeheuig—

John Marek The Deputy Presiding Officer spoken in English p. 79

John Marek Y Dirprwy Lywydd siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 79

Order. I need to call the next speaker. You can have two more sentences.

Trefn. Rhaid imi alw’r siaradwr nesaf. Cewch ddwy frawddeg arall.

Peter Law spoken in English p. 79

Peter Law siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 79

There should be no complacency and no underspending. Ministers will carry on working untiringly. I support them in their fight to provide a quality national health service, so that we can reduce the pain and the waiting for those patients who need our help and support.

Nid oes lle i hunanfoddhad na thanwario. Bydd Gweinidogion yn parhau i weithio’n ddiflino. Fe’u cefnogaf yn eu brwydr i ddarparu gwasanaeth iechyd gwladol o safon, fel y gallwn leihau’r boen a’r aros i’r cleifion hynny sydd angen ein cymorth a’n cefnogaeth.

David Davies spoken in English p. 79

David Davies siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 79

Last year, when the United Kingdom budget was announced, the Chancellor of the Exchequer, Gordon Brown, stood up and, in the glare of the media spotlight, promised £100 million for a road haulage modernisation fund, of which £5 million should have been allocated to Wales. I have looked through the National Assembly’s draft budget and I find no mention of £5 million for a road haulage modernisation fund. I know from personal experience that the haulage industry in this country, and in Wales in particular, is on its knees. It is disgraceful that the Chancellor of the Exchequer can stand up and make these promises, knowing full well that they will not be kept by Labour Ministers when the budget is drawn up in Wales. That is my first disappointment in this budget.

Y llynedd, pan gyhoeddwyd cyllideb y Deyrnas Unedig, cododd Canghellor y Trysorlys, Gordon Brown, ar ei draed, ac yng ngŵydd y cyfryngau, addawodd £100 miliwn ar gyfer cronfa moderneiddio system cludiant ar y ffyrdd, y dylai £5 miliwn ohono fod wedi’i ddyrannu i Gymru. Yr wyf wedi edrych drwy gyllideb ddrafft y Cynulliad Cenedlaethol ac nid oes sôn am £5 miliwn ar gyfer cronfa moderneiddio system cludiant ar y ffyrdd. Gwn o brofiad personol fod y diwydiant cludiant ym Mhrydain, ac yng Nghymru yn benodol, mewn sefyllfa enbyd. Mae’n warthus bod Canghellor y Trysorlys yn gallu codi ar ei draed a gwneud yr addewidion hyn, gan wybod yn iawn na chânt eu cadw gan Weinidogion Llafur pan bennir y gyllideb yng Nghymru. Dyna fy siom gyntaf ynglŷn â’r gyllideb hon.

My second disappointment—and this may sound more parochial, but it is a national issue—is that council tax payers in at least one area of Wales, namely Monmouthshire, will be saddled with an inflation busting rise in their council tax rates. That is simply because not enough money is being invested in local authorities across Wales. The council tax rate in Monmouthshire increased by about 25 per cent a few years ago, then it increased by a further 15 per cent. We are looking at a similar increase now and all because a small number of Labour run local authorities in the Valleys are unable to keep their books in order. It is unfair that we should be forced to pay for their inefficiency.

Fy ail siom—ac efallai fod hyn yn swnio’n fwy plwyfol, ond mae’n fater cenedlaethol—yw fod talwyr y dreth gyngor mewn un rhan o Gymru o leiaf, sef Sir Fynwy, yn wynebu cynnydd ar raddfa lawer uwch na chwyddiant yn y dreth gyngor. Y rheswm am hynny, yn syml iawn, yw na fuddsoddir digon o arian mewn awdurdodau lleol ledled Cymru. Cynyddodd y dreth gyngor yn Sir Fynwy tua 25 y cant ychydig o flynyddoedd yn ôl, yna cynyddodd 15 y cant wedi hynny. Bydd cynnydd tebyg eto yn awr a hynny am na all nifer fach o awdurdodau lleol o dan arweiniad Llafur yn y Cymoedd fantoli eu cyfrifon. Mae’n annheg ein bod ni’n cael ein gorfodi i dalu am eu haneffeithlonrwydd hwy.

Peter Black spoken in English p. 80

Peter Black siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 80

Do you accept that Monmouthshire has the largest increase in expenditure of any local authority in Wales—

A dderbyniwch mai yn Sir Fynwy y bu’r cynnydd mwyaf mewn gwariant o ran unrhyw awdurdod lleol yng Nghymru—

Brian Gibbons a gododd—

Brian Gibbons rose—

John Marek The Deputy Presiding Officer spoken in English p. 80

John Marek Y Dirprwy Lywydd siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 80

Order. Only one person is allowed to speak at a time.

Trefn. Dim ond un person a gaiff siarad ar y tro.

David Davies spoken in English p. 80

David Davies siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 80

I take that point from a Liberal Democrat. Let me remind him that Monmouthshire remains one of the lowest funded authorities in Wales. The Liberal Democrats voted against the first Assembly budget. However, as soon as they got a few ministerial cars and seats at the front of the Chamber, they supported the Labour Party on the budget.

Derbyniaf y pwynt hwnnw gan Ddemocrat Rhyddfrydol. Fe’i hatgoffaf mai Sir Fynwy yw un o’r awdurdodau sy’n derbyn y swm lleiaf o arian yng Nghymru o hyd. Pleidleisiodd y Democratiaid Rhyddfrydol yn erbyn cyllideb gyntaf y Cynulliad. Fodd bynnag, cyn gynted ag y cawsant ychydig o geir gweinidogol a seddi ym mlaen y Siambr, yr oeddent yn cefnogi’r Blaid Lafur o ran y gyllideb.

I will not take any more interventions, because I want to move on to a point that has not been raised in the Assembly before. It also has huge budget implications for local authorities across the United Kingdom and comes about as a result of a piece of European Union legislation that bans the export of fridges. It comes into effect at the end of this year. It sounds innocuous. In fact, three things will happen as a result. First, at the moment, when fridges—and we are talking about 2.5 million to 3 million a year—are collected from people who want to get rid of them, they are usually exported to third world countries. As a result of this legislation, people living in third world countries will no longer be able to afford to buy fridges, and companies such as that in my constituency will go to the wall, because they will no longer be allowed to export them.

Ni dderbyniaf ragor o ymyriadau, gan fy mod am symud ymlaen i drafod pwynt nas codwyd yn y Cynulliad o’r blaen. Mae iddo hefyd oblygiadau cyllidebol aruthrol i awdurdodau lleol ledled y Deyrnas Unedig a chyfyd o ganlyniad i ddarn o ddeddfwriaeth gan yr Undeb Ewropeaidd sy’n gwahardd allforio oergelloedd. Daw i rym ar ddiwedd y flwyddyn hon. Ymddengys yn ddiniwed. Mewn gwirionedd, bydd tri pheth yn digwydd o ganlyniad. Yn gyntaf, ar hyn o bryd, pan gesglir oergelloedd—ac yr ydym yn sôn am ryw 2.5 miliwn i 3 miliwn y flwyddyn—oddi wrth bobl sydd am gael gwared â hwy, cânt eu hallforio fel arfer i wledydd y trydydd byd. O ganlyniad i’r ddeddfwriaeth hon, ni fydd pobl sy’n byw yng ngwledydd y trydydd byd yn gallu fforddio prynu oergelloedd mwyach, a bydd cwmnïau fel yr un yn fy etholaeth i yn methu, oherwydd ni fydd yn bosibl iddynt eu hallforio mwyach.

That does not impact directly on the budget, although it should be a matter of concern to all of us. What will impact on the budget is the fact that local authorities will receive a letter from the National Assembly in the next few days, telling them that they will be responsible for the storage of all refrigerators. Some 3 million fridges a year are disposed of in the United Kingdom. Local authorities will be responsible for storing fridges, until such time as somebody sets up a plant that complies with the complicated European Union legislation for decommissioning those fridges. [Interruption.]

Nid yw hynny’n effeithio’n uniongyrchol ar y gyllideb, er y dylai fod o bryder inni i gyd. Yr hyn a effeithia ar y gyllideb yw’r ffaith y bydd awdurdodau lleol yn derbyn llythyr gan y Cynulliad Cenedlaethol o fewn yr ychydig ddyddiau nesaf, yn dweud wrthynt mai hwy fydd yn gyfrifol am storio pob oergell. Ceir gwared â thua 3 miliwn o oergelloedd y flwyddyn yn y Deyrnas Unedig. Bydd awdurdodau lleol yn gyfrifol am storio oergelloedd, hyd nes y sefydla rhywun ffatri sy’n cydymffurfio â deddfwriaeth gymhleth yr Undeb Ewropeaidd ar gyfer digomisiynu’r oergelloedd hynny. [Torri ar draws.]

If Members were to listen they might learn something new, because this is an important point. Let me finish.

Pe bai’r Aelodau yn gwrando, efallai y dysgent rywbeth newydd, oherwydd mae hwn yn bwynt pwysig. Gadewch imi orffen.

There are only two plants in the whole of the European Union that will be allowed to decommission fridges: one in Germany and the other in the Netherlands. That means that every local authority in Wales and across the rest of the United Kingdom will be faced with a logistical problem of storing 3 million fridges until such time as somebody decides to cough up £10 million to build another plant. That will take years. It is a serious issue. Once again, that is not mentioned in the budget, despite of the fact that in a recent meeting with the Department of the Environment, Food and Rural Affairs, officials said that the Government would have to find extra money to help local authorities. Council tax payers will bear the brunt of that.

Dim ond dwy ffatri yn yr Undeb Ewropeaidd gyfan a fydd â’r hawl i ddigomisiynu oergelloedd: un yn yr Almaen a’r llall yn yr Iseldiroedd. Golyga hynny y wyneba pob awdurdod lleol yng Nghymru a ledled gweddill y Deyrnas Unedig broblem logistaidd, sef storio 3 miliwn o oergelloedd hyd nes y penderfyna rhywun roi £10 miliwn tuag at adeiladu ffatri arall. Cymera hynny flynyddoedd. Mae’n fater difrifol. Unwaith eto, ni chrybwyllir hynny yn y gyllideb, er gwaethaf y ffaith i swyddogion ddweud mewn cyfarfod ag Adran yr Amgylchedd, Bwyd a Materion Gwledig, y byddai’n rhaid i’r Llywodraeth ddod o hyd i arian ychwanegol i gynorthwyo awdurdodau lleol. Talwyr y dreth gyngor a fydd yn dwyn y baich hwnnw.

I reject this budget completely. We know that Labour Members will support it. I make one final plea to their lackeys, the Liberal Democrats, to forget about their ministerial cars and the purse that goes with this coalition Government and stand up for those whom they represent. They should reject this budget and stand with us. Stand with the people instead of with the Labour Ministers.

Gwrthodaf y gyllideb hon yn llwyr. Gwyddom y bydd yr Aelodau Llafur yn ei chefnogi. Apeliaf am y tro olaf at eu cynffonwyr, y Democratiaid Rhyddfrydol, i anghofio am eu ceir gweinidogol a’r pwrs a ddaw yn sgîl y Llywodraeth glymblaid hon a sefyll dros y rheini a gynrychiolant. Dylent wrthod y gyllideb hon a sefyll gyda ni. Sefwch gyda’r bobl yn hytrach na chyda’r Gweinidogion Llafur.

Gareth Jones siaradwyd yn Gymraeg t. 81

Gareth Jones spoken in Welsh p. 81

Gwelaf o’r ffigurau yn y gyllideb y bydd y cynnydd ar gyfer addysg y flwyddyn nesaf tua £63 miliwn, codiad o tua 6.8 y cant. Ar yr wyneb, mae hynny’n edrych yn dra derbyniol, ond o gymharu’r canrannau cynnydd yn y sectorau eraill, gwelwn nad yw addysg yn cael blaenoriaeth o gwbl, sydd yn siomedig. Rhaid ystyried yr holl waith sydd angen ei wneud ym maes addysg—dim ond o ddarllen y ddogfen ddiweddar, ‘Y Wlad sy’n Dysgu’. Mae gofynion a chynlluniau’r ddogfen honno, cynlluniau ELWa, a chynlluniau a dyheadau’r sector addysg uwch oll â phris, ac mae’r arian hwn yn annigonol.

I see from the figures in the budget that the increase for education next year will be about £63 million, an increase of about 6.8 per cent. Superficially, that looks quite acceptable, but if we compare the percentage increases in the other sectors, we see that education is not given priority at all, which is disappointing. We must consider all the work that needs to be done in education—only from reading the recent document, ‘The Learning Country’. The requirements and plans in that document, ELWa’s plans, and the schemes and aspirations of the higher education sector all have a price, and this funding is inadequate.

Wedi dweud hynny, mae rhai pethau i’w croesawu, ac mae datblygiadau clodwiw yn digwydd ym myd addysg yng Nghymru heddiw. Fodd bynnag, ochr yn ochr â hynny, mae trafferthion, sydd yn deillio’n bennaf o ddiffyg buddsoddiad dros flynyddoedd dan weinyddiaeth y Ceidwadwyr, ac mae’n amlwg na welwn fuddsoddiad sylweddol gan y Llywodraeth bartneriaeth hon yn y maes allweddol hwn. Mae’r diffyg cyllid hwn yn adlewyrchu’n wael, nid yn unig ar y Llywodraeth bartneriaeth, ond ar y Cynulliad fel sefydliad, yn enwedig pan y’n beirniedir am wario £8 miliwn ar balu twll ac adeiladu ffens i’w guddio.

Having said that, some things are to be welcomed, and praiseworthy developments are happening in the education sector in Wales today. However, in parallel to that, there are difficulties, which arise primarily from a lack of investment over many years under the Conservative administration, and it is obvious that we will not see a substantial investment by this partnership Government in this key area. This lack of funding reflects badly, not only on the partnership Government, but on the Assembly as an institution, particularly when we are criticised for spending £8 million on digging a hole and building a fence to hide it.

Fel y gwyddom, mae’r dull o ddyrannu arian, sef y fformiwla, yn gwbl annheg. Ni thrafodaf y pwynt hwnnw gan fy mod wedi ei wneud eisoes. Os yw’r arian yn brin, mae’n bwysig ein bod yn gwario’r arian hwnnw a’i ddyrannu’n deg gan fod yn gost effeithiol. Yr oeddwn yn falch o ddeall fod y Prif Weinidog am edrych ar y fformiwla honno ac y bydd yn ysgrifennu ataf ynghylch y mater pwysig hwnnw.

As we know, the method of allocating money, namely the formula, is totally unfair. I will not discuss that point as I have already made it. If money is scarce, it is important that we spend that money and allocate it fairly, while being cost-effective. I was pleased to learn that the First Minister will look into that formula and will write to me about that important issue.

Beth arall sydd angen sylw yn y byd addysg sydd ohoni heddiw? Fel y clywsom eisoes, mae mwyafrif adeiladau ein hysgolion a’n colegau yn anaddas ar gyfer anghenion cyfoes. Maent yn dioddef oherwydd diffyg lle, diffyg cyfarpar ac, fel y dywedodd Peter Law, diffyg isadeiledd effeithiol ar gyfer y dechnoleg newydd. Amcangyfrifir bod angen tua £1 biliwn i ddatrys y broblem honno. Rhaid cydnabod bod y Llywodraeth bartneriaeth yn mynd i’r cyfeiriad hwnnw, ond mae tipyn o ffordd i fynd.

What else needs attention in the education sector today? As we have already heard, the majority of our school and college buildings are inappropriate for modern needs. They suffer from a lack of space, lack of equipment and, as Peter Law said, the lack of an effective infrastructure for new technology. It is estimated that about £1 billion is required to resolve that problem. It must be recognised that the partnership Government is headed in that direction, but there is a long way to go.

Trof at dlodi a chaledi ariannol ymhlith myfyrwyr. Wedi comisiynu’r adroddiad a derbyn nifer o argymhellion cadarnhaol a phellgyrhaeddol, y mae’n drueni nad yw’r Llywodraeth yn barod i wneud defnydd o’r gwaith da a wnaed gan yr Athro Rees a’i grŵp. Buasem wedi hoffi i’r Llywodraeth ymrwymo i un o brif argymhellion adroddiad Rees ar galedi myfyrwyr, sef sefydlu lwfans gynhaliaeth myfyrwyr—math o grant ar sail prawf modd—i gymryd lle cronfeydd mynediad o 2002-03.

I turn to poverty and financial hardship among students. After commissioning the report and receiving several positive and far-reaching recommendations, it is a pity that the Government is unwilling to make use of the good work carried out by Professor Rees and her group. We would have liked the Government to commit itself to one of the main recommendations of the Rees report on student hardship, namely, establishing a student maintenance allowance—a sort of grant on a means-test basis—to replace access funds from 2002-03.

Fel y mae tystiolaeth dros y blynyddoedd wedi ei ddangos, nid yw cronfeydd mynediad wedi llwyddo’n systematig i gynnig cymorth ariannol i fyfyrwyr sydd yn dioddef yr angen mwyaf. Drwy’r system bresennol y mae’r arian hefyd yn cyrraedd myfyrwyr yn rhy hwyr gan fod yn rhaid iddynt brofi eu bod mewn caledi difrifol cyn medru derbyn cymorth. Byddai system lwfansau neu fwrsariaethau cynhaliol wedi eu targedu at fyfyrwyr mewn angen yn rhoi llawer mwy o sicrwydd i’r myfyrwyr hynny ar ddechrau blwyddyn academaidd. Bydd y Llywodraeth yn dadlau ei bod am aros am benderfyniad gan San Steffan ar gwestiwn ffioedd myfyrwyr, rywbryd yn ystod y ddwy flynedd nesaf. Y gwir amdani yw mai mater arall yw hynny. Cyfrifoldeb y Cynulliad yw’r cronfeydd hyn. Mae’r gyllideb yn dangos bod y Llywodraeth wedi dewis peidio â gwrando.

As evidence over the years has shown, access funds have not succeeded in systematically offering financial help to those students who are in the greatest need. In the present system the money also reaches students too late, as they must prove that they are in severe hardship before they are able to receive any assistance. A system of maintenance allowances or bursaries targeted at students in need would give much greater security and assurance to those students at the beginning of an academic year. The Government will argue that it wants to wait for a decision from Westminster on the question of student fees, sometime during the next two years. The truth is that that is a separate issue. These funds are the Assembly’s responsibility. The budget shows that the Government has chosen not to listen.

Mae’r gyllideb ddrafft hon yn methu â chyflawni ar gyfer addysg uwch, fel y clywsom eisoes. Ceir cynnydd eleni a’r flwyddyn nesaf o 2.2 y cant yn unig, sydd yn annigonol. Mae’n angenrheidiol bod y Gweinidog yn mynd i’r afael â materion eraill o bwys ac mae’n bwysig bod yr arian ar gael iddi wneud hynny. Er enghraifft, mae angen mynd i’r afael â’r anwastadedd yng ngwariant y pen rhwng awdurdodau, y gwyn gan benaethiaid a llywodraethwyr nad yw’r arian dyledus yn cyrraedd eu hysgolion, y ffaith bod lefelau cyflogau darlithwyr yn is yng Nghymru nag yn Lloegr, a’r diffyg cefnogaeth i addysg cyfrwng Cymraeg ac addysg anghenion arbennig.

This draft budget fails to deliver for higher education, as we have already heard. The increase for this year and next year of only 2.2 per cent is inadequate. It is essential that the Minister tackles other important issues and it is important that the money is available for her to do that. For example, we need to tackle the inconsistency in the per capita expenditure between authorities, the complaint by headteachers and governors that the funds to which they are entitled do not reach their schools, the fact that lecturers’ salaries are lower in Wales than in England, and the lack of support for Welsh-medium education and special needs education.

Y teimlad yw bod y Llywodraeth bartneriaeth yn arbennig o dda am adnabod problemau a’u trafod, ond ei bod yn hwyrfrydig i’w datrys drwy fuddsoddiadau ariannol digonol. Y rheswm pennaf na all wneud hynny yw bod y gyllideb addysg yn dioddef o golled dybryd yn sgîl y methiant i sicrhau cyllid cyfatebol ar gyfer y cronfeydd strwythurol Ewropeaidd, sydd yn costio, fel y dywedodd Phil Williams, £150 miliwn bob blwyddyn rhwng 2000 a 2004.

The feeling is that the partnership Government is exceptionally good at identifying problems and discussing them, but that it is rather slow in resolving them through adequate financial investments. The main reason why it cannot do so is that the education budget suffers from a severe loss due to the failure to ensure match funding for the European structural funds, which cost, as Phil Williams said, £150 million a year between 2000 and 2004.

Gyda phwysau felly, ynghyd â thanwariant o dros £50 miliwn y llynedd, mae’n annhebyg y medrwn gyflawni’r cyfan sydd angen ei wneud, a bydd ein gwasanaeth addysg ar ei golled—

With such pressure, along with an underspend of over £50 million last year, it is unlikely that we can achieve all that needs to be done, and our education system will lose out—

John Marek The Deputy Presiding Officer spoken in English p. 84

John Marek Y Dirprwy Lywydd siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 84

Order. You have no more than one or two sentences left.

Trefn. Nid oes gennych fwy nag un neu ddwy frawddeg ar ôl.

Gareth Jones siaradwyd yn Gymraeg t. 84

Gareth Jones spoken in Welsh p. 84

Tra’n croesawu’r cynnydd o £63 miliwn, ofnaf nad ydyw’n cwrdd ag anghenion Cymru yn y maes pwysig hwn. Gofynnaf ichi gefnogi ein gwelliant, sydd yn datgan ein pryder nad yw’r gyllideb yn ddigonol i ddarparu’r system addysg y mae gan bobl Cymru yr hawl i’w disgwyl.

While I welcome the increase of £63 million, I fear that it does not meet Wales’s needs in this important sector. I ask you to support our amendment, which states our concern that the budget is not sufficient to provide the education system that the people of Wales have the right to expect.

Peter Rogers spoken in English p. 84

Peter Rogers siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 84

This budget does not show any understanding of what agriculture has endured during, and prior to, the foot and mouth disease crisis. We have heard the strategy, namely the 50-point action plan. On Tuesday we heard the First Minister state in his report that organic farming methods are the way forward. However, people are already being forced to reconsider that strategy, because the Government has again failed to understand the problem of cheap imports and how supermarkets can mishandle matters. Welsh milk producers went through the expensive programme of producing organic milk, but we are suddenly talking of a price of 30 pence per litre. By now, the price is down to 22 pence, and that will no longer be able to be sustained.

Ni ddengys y gyllideb hon unrhyw ddealltwriaeth o’r hyn y mae amaethyddiaeth wedi’i ddioddef yn ystod, a chyn, argyfwng clwy’r traed a’r genau. Clywsom am y strategaeth, sef y cynllun gweithredu 50 pwynt. Ddydd Mawrth, clywsom y Prif Weinidog yn nodi yn ei adroddiad mai dulliau ffermio organig yw’r ffordd ymlaen. Fodd bynnag, mae pobl eisoes yn cael eu gorfodi i ailystyried y strategaeth honno, gan fod y Llywodraeth unwaith eto wedi methu â deall y broblem o fewnforion rhad a’r ffordd y gall archfarchnadoedd gamdrafod materion. Ymgymerodd cynhyrchwyr llaeth Cymru â’r rhaglen gostus o gynhyrchu llaeth organig, ond mae sôn yn sydyn am bris o 30 ceiniog y litr. Erbyn hyn, mae’r pris wedi gostwng i 22 ceiniog y litr, ac ni ellir cynnal y pris hwnnw ymhellach.

We must ensure that we have a budget sufficient to support many agricultural matters. Prices are at a world low, lower than we ever remember. We have lost the supermarket system. We have lost the livestock market system, by which we could have improved prices. We would not have had to keep returning with a begging bowl, looking for more money, if we still had that system.

Rhaid inni sicrhau bod gennym gyllideb ddigonol i gefnogi llawer o faterion amaethyddol. Mae prisiau ar eu hisaf erioed yn y byd, yn is nag y gallwn eu cofio erioed. Yr ydym wedi colli system yr archfarchnadoedd. Yr ydym wedi colli system y marchnadoedd da byw, y gellid bod wedi’u defnyddio i wella prisiau. Ni fyddem wedi gorfod dychwelyd i gardota am fwy o arian o hyd, pe bai’r system honno yn parhau i fodoli.

Some strategies that have already been established this winter, such as the lamb welfare cull, which has put a price of £10 on live lambs, are problematic. By setting that bottom price, we have destroyed the quality lamb market and have seen prices spiral downwards, so that farmers can no longer sustain lamb production.

Mae rhai strategaethau sydd eisoes wedi’u sefydlu yn ystod y gaeaf hwn, megis y cynllun difa ŵyn er lles, sydd wedi pennu pris o £10 ar ŵyn byw, yn achosi problemau. Drwy bennu’r pris isaf hwnnw, yr ydym wedi dinistrio’r farchnad ŵyn o safon ac mae prisiau wedi gostwng yn sylweddol, fel na all ffermwyr barhau â’r gwaith o gynhyrchu ŵyn ymhellach.

We must remember that we need to put more money into the industry and we must take other action to support it. How are the farmers in mid Wales this winter, who have already been subject to the restrictions throughout the summer months, to survive? Mid Wales is one of the greatest rearing areas in Wales, but those farmers have seen all suckler calf sales stopped. Those stocks are still on their farms, as well as their ewes. They are without any immediate support, they have no fodder left, do not have buildings to house the stock, and their cash flow has been destroyed.

Rhaid inni gofio bod angen inni roi mwy o arian i’r diwydiant a rhaid inni gymryd camau eraill i’w gefnogi. Sut y bydd y ffermwyr yn y Canolbarth, sydd eisoes wedi dioddef y cyfyngiadau drwy gydol yr haf, yn goroesi? Yn y Canolbarth mae un o’r ardaloedd lle y codir y nifer fwyaf o anifeiliaid yng Nghymru, ond gwaharddwyd y ffermwyr hynny rhag gwerthu eu lloi sugno. Mae’r anifeiliaid hynny yn parhau i fod ar eu ffermydd, yn ogystal â’u mamogiaid. Nid oes ganddynt gymorth ar hyn o bryd, nid oes ganddynt borthiant ar ôl, nid oes ganddynt adeiladau i gadw’r anifeiliaid, ac mae eu llif arian wedi dod i ben.

We need a budget to support that industry. Every other country has one. The United States has already put more money into the green box to support its farmers. Last week Europe voted to increase the sheep annual premium from £12—the recognised price to pay—up to £25. European countries recognise the importance of supporting the industry. That is despite a Labour motion during those Brussels talks, to return the price to £13 or £14. There is much talk about reducing subsidies for farming. British and Welsh farmers would welcome that, as long as they are treated fairly.

Mae angen cyllideb arnom i gefnogi’r diwydiant hwnnw. Mae gan bob gwlad arall gyllideb o’r fath. Mae’r Unol Daleithiau eisoes wedi rhoi mwy o arian i’r blwch gwyrdd i gefnogi ei ffermwyr. Yr wythnos diwethaf, pleidleisiodd Ewrop dros gynyddu premiwm blynyddol ar gyfer defaid o £12—y pris cydnabyddedig i’w dalu—i £25. Mae gwledydd Ewrop yn cydnabod pa mor bwysig yw cefnogi’r diwydiant, er gwaethaf cynnig y Blaid Lafur yn ystod y trafodaethau hynny ym Mrwsel i ddychwelyd y pris i £13 neu £14. Ceir llawer o sôn am leihau cymorthdaliadau i ffermwyr. Byddai ffermwyr Cymru a Phrydain yn croesawu hynny, cyhyd ag y cânt eu trin mewn ffordd deg.

Other countries realise that the industry needs support. We must ensure that we do what we can to help it in our budgets. There is no better time to start supporting home-produced foods to ensure that we have quality food. We have quality food now, but we allow other countries to import food into this country that does not meet our standards. If we could prevent that, we would not need to keep looking to the begging bowl and asking for more money. Let us have a fair market place for British and Welsh farmers, to ensure that they can hold their heads high and have the living that they deserve.

Mae gwledydd eraill yn sylweddoli bod angen cymorth ar y diwydiant. Rhaid inni sicrhau y gwnawn bopeth o fewn ein gallu i’w helpu yn ein cyllidebau. Nid oes adeg well i ddechrau cefnogi bwydydd a gynhyrchwyd yn y wlad hon i sicrhau bod gennym fwyd o safon. Mae gennym fwyd o safon ar hyn o bryd, ond yr ydym yn caniatáu i wledydd eraill fewnforio bwyd i’r wlad hon nad yw’n cyrraedd ein safonau. Pe gallem atal hynny rhag digwydd, ni fyddai angen inni gardota am fwy o arian o hyd. Gadewch inni gael marchnad deg i ffermwyr Cymru a Phrydain, i sicrhau y gallant ddal eu pennau yn uchel a chael y fywoliaeth y maent yn ei haeddu.

That is our message. If we cannot increase financial support, we must recognise the importance of the industry, and ensure that farmers in Wales operate under the same conditions as those in other European countries and in the USA. Our farmers will then have a chance of survival.

Dyna ein neges. Os na allwn roi mwy o gymorth ariannol, rhaid inni gydnabod pwysigrwydd y diwydiant, gan sicrhau bod ffermwyr Cymru yn gweithio o dan yr un amodau â ffermwyr mewn gwledydd Ewropeaidd eraill ac yn UDA. Wedyn caiff ein ffermwyr y cyfle i oroesi.

David Lloyd spoken in English p. 86

David Lloyd siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 86

I declare an interest as a general practitioner. Obviously, in the time I have to speak, a detailed critique of the health aspect of the budget is impossible. We have noted the underspend of £54 million last year. There is more money available, but it needs to be spent—in the short and the long term. We do not need more underspend. What about financing free personal and nursing care for the elderly, as recommended by the royal commission? What about resolving the residential care homes crisis?

Datganaf fuddiant fel meddyg teulu. Mae’n amlwg nad yw’n bosibl cyflwyno sylwadau manwl ar yr agwedd iechyd ar y gyllideb yn yr amser sydd gennyf. Yr ydym wedi nodi’r tanwariant o £54 miliwn y llynedd. Mae mwy o arian ar gael, ond mae angen inni ei wario—yn y byrdymor a’r hirdymor. Nid oes angen mwy o danwariant arnom. Beth am ariannu gofal personol a gofal nyrsio am ddim i bobl oedrannus, fel yr argymhellwyd gan y comisiwn brenhinol? Beth am ddatrys yr argyfwng mewn cartrefi gofal preswyl?

Brian Gibbons spoken in English p. 86

Brian Gibbons siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 86

Can you give an estimate of the cost of free personal care, in terms of the priorities in health spending? Can you give me a figure, please?

A allwch roi amcangyfrif o gost gofal personol am ddim, mewn perthynas â’r blaenoriaethau o ran gwario ar iechyd? A allwch roi ffigur imi, os gwelwch yn dda?

David Lloyd spoken in English p. 86

David Lloyd siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 86

In true ministerial fashion, I will write to you about that.

Yn ôl y traddodiad gweinidogol, ysgrifennaf atoch ynglŷn â hynny.

We also have increasing waiting lists, the worst health statistics in the UK, and we need to increase the capacity to treat illness. We need more beds, a fact to which Peter Law shrewdly alluded. Therefore, we need to release that money to increase capacity. Presumably that was a factor that motivated the proposed structural changes to the national health service. Exactly how much money will be released by the abolition of the health authorities? How much will that abolition cost? I do not expect that I will get an answer to that today. What about the projected private finance initiative costings details that, perversely, reduce the number of beds? I shall write at another date about that.

Mae gennym hefyd restrau aros sy’n mynd yn hwy, yr ystadegau iechyd gwaethaf yn y DU, ac mae angen inni gynyddu’r capasiti i drin salwch. Mae angen mwy o welyau arnom, sef rhywbeth y cyfeiriodd Peter Law ato mewn ffordd graff. Felly, mae angen inni ryddhau’r arian hwnnw i gynyddu capasiti. Yr wyf yn cymryd mai hynny oedd yn un o’r ffactorau a ysgogodd y newidiadau strwythurol arfaethedig i’r gwasanaeth iechyd gwladol. Faint o arian yn union a gaiff ei ryddhau pan ddiddymir yr awdurdodau iechyd? Faint y bydd y broses o’u diddymu yn ei chostio? Ni ddisgwyliaf gael ateb i hynny heddiw. Beth am fanylion costau’r fenter cyllid preifat arfaethedig sydd, yn groes i bob rheswm, yn lleihau’r nifer o welyau? Ysgrifennaf am hynny rywbryd eto.

A confidential Treasury review into the future of the health service is preparing the ground for a sharp rise in public spending, and possibly taxation, to meet the growing demand for health care. Those who avidly read the Financial Times will have spotted that last week. Current UK spend on health lags behind EU averages. The NHS has fewer than half the European average number of beds and doctors. That is why we have waiting lists. That Treasury review concluded that health spending needs to rise sharply and exceed the rate of economic growth. How will the Minister ensure that Wales receives a just share of any future increases in UK health spending?

Mae adolygiad cyfrinachol y Trysorlys o ddyfodol y gwasanaeth iechyd yn paratoi’r ffordd i gynnydd sylweddol mewn gwariant cyhoeddus, ac efallai trethi, i fodloni’r galw cynyddol am ofal iechyd. Bydd darllenwyr brwd y Financial Times wedi sylwi ar hynny yr wythnos diwethaf. Mae gwariant presennol y DU ar iechyd yn is na chyfartaleddau’r UE. Mae gan yr NHS lai na hanner y nifer o welyau a meddygon sydd gan Ewrop ar gyfartaledd. Dyna pam mae rhestrau aros gennym. Daeth yr adolygiad hwnnw gan y Trysorlys i’r casgliad fod angen i wariant ar iechyd godi’n sylweddol a bod yn uwch na’r gyfradd twf economaidd. Sut y bydd y Gweinidog yn sicrhau bod Cymru yn cael cyfran deg o unrhyw godiadau yng ngwariant y DU ar iechyd yn y dyfodol?

Jonathan Morgan spoken in English p. 87

Jonathan Morgan siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 87

I support some of Gareth Jones’s comments on the education budget. I am concerned about the £20 million budget strand. I do not know whether that is a complete underspend, or whether it is part underspend and part increase in the Chancellor of the Exchequer’s budget. I suspect that it is a complete £20 million underspend from the financial year. This is a cause for explanation, not celebration, because if there is a £20 million underspend, there are projects that we have not realised. If there is £20 million missing, we have not spent it on refurbishing schools, building new schools, employing more teachers or building the information and communications technology infrastructure. We should be concerned at this level of underspend. In addition, we have no commitment to ringfence the moneys sent to local education authorities, to tackle secondary school class sizes, or to resolve the huge gaps between local education authority delegation rates. These issues matter to schools, and we are doing nothing to resolve these problems in this budget.

Cefnogaf rai o sylwadau Gareth Jones am y gyllideb addysg. Pryderaf am linyn £20 miliwn y gyllideb. Ni wn ai tanwariant llwyr, ynteu tanwariant rhannol a chodiad rhannol yng nghyllideb Canghellor y Trysorlys ydyw. Amheuaf mai tanwariant llwyr o £20 miliwn ydyw o’r flwyddyn ariannol. Mae angen esbonio hynny, yn hytrach na’i ddathlu, gan fod prosiectau nad ydym wedi’u cyflawni, os oes tanwariant o £20 miliwn. Os oes £20 miliwn ar goll, nid ydym wedi’i wario ar adnewyddu ysgolion, adeiladu ysgolion newydd, cyflogi mwy o athrawon na datblygu seilwaith technoleg gwybodaeth a chyfathrebu. Dylai tanwariant o’r fath peri inni boeni. Yn ogystal, nid oes gennym ymrwymiad i glustnodi’r arian a anfonir i awdurdodau addysg lleol, i fynd i’r afael â maint dosbarthiadau mewn ysgolion uwchradd, neu i ddatrys y bylchau enfawr rhwng cyfraddau dirprwyo awdurdodau addysg lleol. Mae’r materion hyn o bwys i ysgolion, ac nid ydym yn gwneud dim byd i ddatrys y problemau hynny yn y gyllideb hon.

On further examination, it is clear that, while there is a 6.8 per cent increase in the education budget between this year and next year, there is a 28 per cent increase in the running costs of the Assembly sponsored public bodies working in education. Can you imagine a school in Wales getting a 28 per cent increase in funding? I doubt it. However, we seem willing to spend that money on administration. That is in addition to the other budget lines for those ASPBs.

Wrth ei archwilio ymhellach, mae’n amlwg, er bod cynnydd o 6.8 y cant yn y gyllideb addysg rhwng eleni a’r flwyddyn nesaf bod cynnydd o 28 y cant yng nghostau cynnal cyrff cyhoeddus a noddir gan y Cynulliad sy’n gweithio ym maes addysg. A allwch ddychmygu ysgol yng Nghymru yn cael 28 y cant mwy o arian? Go brin. Fodd bynnag, ymddengys ein bod yn fodlon gwario’r arian hwnnw ar waith gweinyddol. Mae’r arian hwnnw yn ychwanegol at y llinellau eraill yn y gyllideb ar gyfer y cyrff cyhoeddus hynny a noddir gan y Cynulliad.

I remind our Liberal Democrat colleagues who talk about tuition fees, student hardship and financial support, that they are now happy to support a Labour administration that introduced tuition fees and finally abolished maintenance grants. Will the Liberal Democrats and the other parties in the Chamber give their wholehearted support to our campaign to completely abolish tuition fees?

Atgoffaf ein cyd-Aelodau Democrataidd Rhyddfrydol sy’n siarad am ffioedd hyfforddiant, caledi myfyrwyr a chymorth ariannol, eu bod bellach yn fodlon cefnogi gweinyddiaeth Lafur a gyflwynodd ffioedd hyfforddiant ac a gwblhaodd y broses o ddiddymu grantiau cynhaliaeth. A fydd y Democratiaid Rhyddfrydol a’r pleidiau eraill yn y Siambr yn cefnogi’n frwd ein hymgyrch i ddiddymu ffioedd hyfforddiant yn llwyr?

Peter Black spoken in English p. 88

Peter Black siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 88

You have adopted our UK-wide campaign. The Liberal Democrats are opposed to tuition fees and have been for some time. We continue to campaign for their abolition.

Yr ydych wedi mabwysiadu ein hymgyrch ni ar gyfer y DU gyfan. Mae’r Democratiaid Rhyddfrydol yn gwrthwynebu ffioedd hyfforddiant ac maent wedi gwneud hynny ers peth amser. Parhawn i ymgyrchu i’w diddymu.

Jonathan Morgan spoken in English p. 88

Jonathan Morgan siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 88

As the Member who tabled the statement of opinion in June 1999, soon after I was elected, calling for a committee of inquiry into student hardship, I am astonished that it has taken two years for us to reach this point. When it comes to implementing the Rees report and the Government lobbies the UK Government on introducing end-loaded, income-contingent tuition fees, will our Liberal Democrat colleagues in the Cabinet support their Labour colleagues in arguing for this change? The Liberal Democrats in the Assembly will not be in favour of abolishing tuition fees. They will abolish up-front fees, but I suspect that they will kowtow to their colleagues in the Labour administration and support end-loaded, income-contingent fees. The Liberal Democrats’ hypocrisy is obvious.

Fel yr Aelod a gyflwynodd y datganiad barn ym mis Mehefin 1999, yn fuan ar ôl cael fy ethol, yn galw am bwyllgor i ymchwilio i galedi myfyrwyr, yr wyf yn synnu ei bod wedi cymryd dwy flynedd inni gyrraedd y pwynt hwn. Pan ddaw’r amser i weithredu adroddiad Rees a phan fydd y Llywodraeth yn pwyso ar Lywodraeth y DU i gyflwyno ffioedd hyfforddiant, y mae’n rhaid eu had-dalu ar ddiwedd y cwrs, a rhai sy’n ddibynnol ar incwm, a fydd y Democratiaid Rhyddfrydol yn y Cabinet yn cefnogi eu cyd-Aelodau Llafur wrth ddadlau dros y newid hwn? Ni fydd y Democratiaid Rhyddfrydol yn y Cynulliad o blaid diddymu ffioedd hyfforddiant. Byddant yn diddymu ffioedd ar ddechrau cyrsiau, ond amheuaf y byddant yn cyd-fynd â’u cyd-Aelodau yn y weinyddiaeth Lafur gan gefnogi ffioedd hyfforddiant, y mae’n rhaid eu had-dalu ar ddiwedd y cwrs, yn ddibynnol ar incwm. Mae rhagrith y Democratiaid Rhyddfrydol yn amlwg.

On comparing the culture budget line for this year with that for next year, we see there has been an increase of between 11 and 13 per cent. However, 21.5 per cent of that increase will only pay for the increased running costs of the five Assembly sponsored public bodies that administer arts, culture and sport in Wales. Almost 22 per cent of that increase is to cover the increased cost of running quangos in Wales. That sends out a poor message to arts practitioners across Wales, particularly when Clwyd Theatre Cymru has an accumulated deficit of £487,000 and the Welsh National Opera desperately requires stabilisation funds to allow it to continue its excellent work. There is little to celebrate in this budget. If we truly want Cardiff and Wales to secure the capital of culture bid for 2008, we must do much better than this.

Wrth gymharu llinell diwylliant y gyllideb ar gyfer eleni a’r flwyddyn nesaf, gwelwn fod cynnydd o rhwng 11 a 13 y cant. Fodd bynnag, bydd 21.5 y cant o’r cynnydd hwn ond yn talu am y costau uwch i gynnal y pum corff cyhoeddus a noddir gan y Cynulliad sy’n gweinyddu’r celfyddydau, diwylliant a chwaraeon yng Nghymru. Bydd bron 22 y cant o’r cynnydd hwnnw yn talu’r costau uwch i gynnal cwangos yng Nghymru. Mae hynny’n anfon neges wael i bobl yn y celfyddydau ledled Cymru, yn arbennig pan fo Cwmni Theatr Clwyd wedi cronni diffyg o £487,000 a phan fo angen dybryd ar Gwmni Opera Cenedlaethol Cymru am arian sefydlogi i ganiatáu iddo barhau â’i waith ardderchog. Os ydym yn wir am i Gaerdydd a Chymru ennill y cais i fod yn brifddinas ddiwylliant 2008, rhaid inni wneud llawer gwell na hyn.

Janet Ryder spoken in English p. 89

Janet Ryder siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 89

Local government welcomes the increase in its budget this year, but I am sure that you are aware that pressures are already mounting. Those pressures will stem from possible pay rises, which may be above the rate of inflation, and the triennial pensions review, which might have a major impact on local government budgets. In addition, there are possible problems with the formula in terms of how money will be transferred to Education and Learning Wales and the effect that that might have on the 11 to 16 school budgets. Will the Minister consider reviewing local government’s allowance? Unless it is allowed adequate money to spend, we will not see some of the Assembly’s policies being—

Mae llywodraeth leol yn croesawu’r cynnydd yn ei chyllideb eleni, ond yr wyf yn siŵr eich bod yn ymwybodol o’r pwysau sydd eisoes yn dechrau cynyddu. Bydd y pwysau hynny yn deillio o godiadau tâl posibl, a all fod yn uwch na’r gyfradd chwyddiant, a’r adolygiad bob tair blynedd o bensiynau, a allai gael effaith fawr ar gyllidebau llywodraeth leol. Yn ogystal, mae gan y fformiwla broblemau posibl o ran sut y caiff arian ei drosglwyddo o Ddysgu ac Addysgu Cymru a’r effaith bosibl ar gyllidebau ysgolion i ddisgyblion 11 i 16 oed. A fydd y Gweinidog yn ystyried adolygu lwfans llywodraeth leol? Oni chaiff ddigon o arian, ni fyddwn yn gweld rhai o bolisïau’r Cynulliad yn cael —

John Marek The Deputy Presiding Officer spoken in English p. 89

John Marek Y Dirprwy Lywydd siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 89

Order. I see that there are Members standing at the back of the Chamber and holding a conversation. That is not in order. If you wish to talk, you must leave the Chamber. I am sorry to interrupt.

Trefn. Gwelaf fod rhai Aelodau yn sefyll yng nghefn y Siambr yn cael sgwrs. Nid yw hynny mewn trefn. Os ydych am siarad, rhaid ichi adael y Siambr. Mae’n ddrwg gennyf dorri ar eich traws.

Janet Ryder spoken in English p. 89

Janet Ryder siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 89

I will ask my question again. Will the Minister reconsider local government’s allowance in light of the need to allow it extra money to spend on increased and new burdens that will be presented to it? She is aware of the Welsh Local Government Association’s worry that, if local government is not adequately funded, over and above what is already in the budget, some of the legislative measures that have been passed by this body may not be implemented. There will be an increase in the backlog of repairs and maintenance work and there may even be cuts in existing services. That means the possibility of councils having to increase their council taxes at a faster rate than the Assembly’s assumption of 5 per cent.

Gofynnaf fy nghwestiwn eto. A fydd y Gweinidog yn ailystyried lwfans llywodraeth leol yng ngoleuni’r angen i roi arian ychwanegol iddi ei wario ar feichiau sydd wedi cynyddu a beichiau newydd a ddaw i’w rhan? Mae’n ymwybodol o bryder Cymdeithas Llywodraeth Leol Cymru na chaiff rhai o’r mesurau deddfwriaethol a basiwyd gan y corff hwn eu gweithredu, os na chaiff llywodraeth leol ei hariannu’n ddigonol, yn fwy nag sydd eisoes yn y gyllideb. Bydd ôl-groniad mwy o waith atgyweirio a gwaith cynnal a chadw ac efallai y bydd gostyngiadau yn y gwasanaethau presennol hyd yn oed. Golyga hynny y posibilrwydd y bydd cynghorau yn gorfod codi’r dreth gyngor yn fwy na’r 5 y cant a dybiwyd gan y Cynulliad.

Rhodri Glyn Thomas siaradwyd yn Gymraeg t. 90

Rhodri Glyn Thomas spoken in Welsh p. 90

Cyfyngaf fy sylwadau i’r angen am dryloywder yn y gyllideb hon. Mae’n anhygoel bod gennym fantolen ariannol nad yw’n nodi’n glir faint o arian sydd wrth gefn, er mwyn inni fod yn ymwybodol o’r sefyllfa ariannol o’r dechrau, a faint o’r arian hynny sy’n cael ei ryddhau i’r gyllideb. Mae’n hawdd i’r Llywodraeth sôn am arian newydd pan ein bod, mewn gwirionedd, yn sôn am arian a ryddhawyd o arian a oedd wrth gefn.

I will restrict my comments to the need for transparency in this budget. It is incredible that we have a balance sheet that does not note clearly how much money is in reserve, so that we are aware of the financial position from the beginning, and how much of that money is being released into the budget. It is easy for the Government to talk about new money when, in fact, we are talking about money that was released from the reserve funds.

Cyfeiriaf at yr adran ar ddiwylliant. Rhannaf bryder Jonathan Morgan ynglŷn â’r sefyllfa honno. Mae angen llawer mwy o eglurder ynglŷn â lle yn union y mae’r arian yn mynd. A yw’n mynd at ddatblygiadau yn y gymuned gelfyddydol, neu at weinyddiaeth ychwanegol? Gwnaf hefyd ble ynglŷn â chais Cymru a Chaerdydd i fod yn ddinas ddiwylliant 2008. Gobeithiaf y bydd ymrwymiad ariannol pellach oddi wrth Gynulliad Cenedlaethol Cymru i’r cais hollbwysig hwnnw.

I refer to the section on culture. I share Jonathan Morgan’s concern regarding that situation. We need much more clarity about where exactly the money is going. Is it going to developments in the arts community, or towards additional administration? I also make a plea regarding Wales and Cardiff’s city of culture bid for 2008. I hope that there will be a further financial commitment by the National Assembly for Wales to that all-important bid.

Nid oes tryloywder ynghylch datblygu cynaliadwy ychwaith. Ni wyddom faint o arian a gaiff ei wario ar ddatblygu cynaliadwy. Derbyniwn fod yn rhaid i’r mater fod yn un trawsbynciol, a chroesawn hynny. Fodd bynnag, byddai’n braf pe gallem weld yn y gyllideb i ba le y mae’r arian yn mynd a faint o ymrwymiad sydd gan y Llywodraeth i ddatblygu cynaliadwy. Ai dim ond geiriau teg sydd yma, heb unrhyw ymrwymiad ariannol?

There is no transparency regarding sustainable development either. We do not know how much money will be spent on sustainable development. We accept that this must be a cross-cutting issue, and we welcome that. However, it would be nice to be able to see in the budget where the money goes and the extent of the Government’s commitment to sustainable development. Are empty words all we have, and no financial commitment?

Cefnogaf sylwadau Elin Jones ar y sefyllfa argyfyngus sy’n wynebu amaethyddiaeth. Rhyfeddaf fod £500,000 o’r gyllideb amaeth—sef 20 y cant o’r cynnydd—i’w wario ar gyhoeddusrwydd. Gwn fod Carwyn Jones yn hoff o gyhoeddusrwydd ond, hyd yn oed iddo ef, mae £500,000 yn swm anferthol. Hoffwn wybod beth fydd y cyhoeddusrwydd hwn.

I support Elin Jones’s comments on the critical situation facing agriculture. I am surprised that £500,000 of the agriculture budget—20 per cent of the increase—is to be spent on publicity. I know that Carwyn Jones likes publicity but, even for him, £500,000 is a massive sum. I would like to know what this publicity will be.

Hoffwn gynorthwyo David Davies. Wrth gyfeirio’n huawdl at oergelloedd, soniodd David am y llythyr a anfonwyd at awdurdodau lleol. Mae rheoli awdurdodau lleol yn fater datganoledig, David. Oddi wrth y sefydliad hwn, y mae David yn Aelod ohono, y daeth y llythyr. Gwn i David ymgyrchu yn erbyn datganoli. Serch hynny, mae datganoli wedi digwydd. Byddai’n braf gwybod bod David a’r Blaid Geidwadol yn cydnabod bod datganoli wedi digwydd ac mai gan y Cynulliad y mae’r awdurdod.

I would like to assist David Davies. While referring eloquently to refrigerators, David mentioned the letter sent to local authorities. The control of local authorities is a devolved matter. The letter came from this institution, of which David is a Member. I know that David campaigned against devolution. Nevertheless, devolution has occurred. It would be good to know that David and the Conservative Party acknowledge that devolution has occurred and that the authority lies with the Assembly.

David Davies a gododd—

David Davies rose—

John Marek The Deputy Presiding Officer spoken in English p. 91

John Marek Y Dirprwy Lywydd siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 91

Order. Rhodri Glyn has finished speaking.

Trefn. Mae Rhodri Glyn wedi gorffen siarad.

Helen Mary Jones spoken in English p. 91

Helen Mary Jones siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 91

I will respond briefly to points made this morning. Peter Black accused Plaid Cymru, as an opposition, of having no alternative practical proposals. I would have thought that, having been an Assembly Member for two years, Peter would be capable by now of amending his prepared speeches in light of comments by other Members. I am disappointed that he did not listen to Dafydd Wigley.

Byddaf yn ymateb yn fyr i’r pwyntiau a wnaethpwyd y bore yma. Cyhuddodd Peter Black Blaid Cymru, fel gwrthblaid, o beidio â chael unrhyw gynigion ymarferol amgen. Synnaf braidd nad yw Peter Black, ac yntau’n Aelod o’r Cynulliad ers dwy flynedd, yn gallu diwygio’r areithiau y mae wedi’u paratoi ymlaen llaw erbyn hyn yng ngoleuni sylwadau gan Aelodau eraill. Yr wyf yn siomedig na wrandawodd ar Ddafydd Wigley.

I am also concerned that Peter, as a Deputy Minister, refused to respond to sensible interventions on the grounds that he was not speaking as a Minister. What do we have here? When is a Liberal Democrat Minister not a Liberal Democrat Minister? With the exception of Mike German, how on earth are the rest of us supposed to tell the difference?

Pryderaf hefyd i Peter, fel Dirprwy Weinidog, wrthod ymateb i ymyriadau synhwyrol am nad oedd yn siarad fel Gweinidog. Beth sy’n digwydd yma? Pryd nad yw Gweinidog y Democratiaid Rhyddfrydol yn Weinidog y Democratiaid Rhyddfrydol? Ac eithrio Mike German, sut yn y byd y dylai’r gweddill ohonom wahaniaethu?

I have a few brief points. First, I welcome the funding announced by the Minister to facilitate proper equal pay for National Assembly staff. We must set a good example. My second point regards a potential opportunity. Given the current fluid state of railway management in the UK, it seems to be a good time for the Government of Wales not only to make a bid for proper influence over the Strategic Rail Authority, but also for control of the £100 million that the authority is meant to spend annually on behalf of Wales. Has the Minister made a bid for this money and, if not, will she do so?

Mae gennyf ychydig o bwyntiau byr. Yn gyntaf, croesawaf yr arian a gyhoeddwyd gan y Gweinidog i hwyluso cyflogau cyfartal priodol i staff y Cynulliad Cenedlaethol. Rhaid inni osod esiampl dda. Mae fy ail bwynt yn ymwneud â chyfle posibl. O ystyried sefyllfa ansefydlog bresennol o ran rheolaeth rheilffyrdd y DU, ymddengys ei bod yn amser da i Lywodraeth Cymru nid yn unig wneud cais i ddylanwadu’n briodol ar yr Awdurdod Rheilffyrdd Strategol, ond hefyd i reoli’r £100 miliwn y dylai’r awdurdod ei wario bob blwyddyn ar ran Cymru. A wnaeth y Gweinidog gais am yr arian hwn, ac os na wnaeth, a fydd yn ei wneud?

Thirdly, I am concerned about the environment and transport budget. The funding available for the Countryside Council for Wales for the upkeep of sites of special scientific interest remains a major concern, despite recent improvements. I welcome the further announcement made by the Minister today. Up to two-thirds of SSSIs in Wales fall well short of the standard required by European law. Many are in a shameful state. This must be addressed. Will the Minister clarify what further funding there is in the budget to deal with this?

Yn drydydd, pryderaf am gyllideb yr amgylchedd a thrafnidiaeth. Mae’r arian sydd ar gael i Gyngor Cefn Gwlad Cymru gynnal safleoedd o ddiddordeb gwyddonol arbennig yn parhau i beri pryder mawr, er gwaethaf y gwelliannau diweddar. Croesawaf y cyhoeddiad arall a wnaethpwyd gan y Gweinidog heddiw. Mae hyd at ddau o bob tri o’r safleoedd hyn yng Nghymru yn methu â chyrraedd y safon sy’n ofynnol yn ôl cyfraith Ewropeaidd. Mae llawer ohonynt mewn cyflwr cywilyddus. Rhaid mynd i’r afael â hyn. A fydd y Gweinidog yn egluro pa arian pellach sydd yn y gyllideb i ddelio â’r mater hwn?

Finally, I am concerned about the lack of specific funding across budget headings to mainstream equal opportunities. No one can doubt the Minister’s commitment. However, we all know that achieving long-term change of direction needs heavy investment in the short term. Although much can be done by shifting resources and priorities, there are costs involved in achieving those shifts. How will mainstreaming equal opportunities be achieved if it is not highlighted in the budget?

Yn olaf, pryderaf am ddiffyg arian penodol ar draws penawdau’r gyllideb i brif ffrydio cyfle cyfartal. Ni all neb amau ymrwymiad y Gweinidog. Fodd bynnag, y mae pob un ohonom yn gwybod bod angen buddsoddi’n sylweddol yn y byrdymor i newid cyfeiriad yn yr hirdymor. Er y gellir cyflawni llawer drwy symud adnoddau a newid blaenoriaethau, mae’r newidiadau hynny yn costio. Sut y gellir prif ffrydio cyfle cyfartal os na chaiff ei amlygu yn y gyllideb?

Edwina Hart The Minister for Finance, Local Government and Communities spoken in English p. 92

Edwina Hart Y Gweinidog dros Gyllid, Llywodraeth Leol a Chymunedau siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 92

Although there are many points to which I must respond, I cannot respond to them all within the allocated time. I will respond in writing to Members who made purely technical points. In addition, Ministers will make detailed announcements on their own portfolios, which will clarify some points that have been made.

Er bod llawer o bwyntiau y mae’n rhaid imi ymateb iddynt, ni allaf ymateb i bob un ohonynt o fewn yr amser penodedig. Byddaf yn ateb yn ysgrifenedig i’r Aelodau a wnaeth bwyntiau technegol yn unig. Yn ogystal, bydd y Gweinidogion yn gwneud cyhoeddiadau manwl ar eu portffolios eu hunain, a fydd yn egluro rhai o’r pwyntiau a wnaethpwyd.

First, I will discuss the amendments. I reject amendment 1, as the draft budget proposals provide the education and lifelong learning main expenditure group with increases over this year’s provisions, after allowing translation of over 4 per cent in each of the next two years. Furthermore, £20 million of the Assembly’s reserves for the next two years has been earmarked for education. There has also been a £27 million allocation from the end year flexibility. Education interests everybody and it has been key to our discussions.

Yn gyntaf, trafodaf y gwelliannau. Gwrthodaf welliant 1, gan fod cynigion y gyllideb ddrafft yn rhoi codiadau sy’n uwch na darpariaethau eleni i brif grŵp gwariant addysg a dysgu gydol oes, ar ôl caniatáu trosiad o fwy na 4 y cant yn y ddwy flynedd nesaf. Yn ogystal, neilltuwyd £20 miliwn o gronfeydd wrth gefn y Cynulliad ar gyfer y ddwy flynedd nesaf i addysg. Dyrannwyd £27 miliwn hefyd o hyblygrwydd diwedd y flwyddyn. Mae addysg o ddiddordeb i bawb a bu’n allweddol i’n trafodaethau.

The Higher Education Funding Council for Wales’s baseline includes £10.8 million specifically for investing in a research infrastructure in higher education institutions in Wales. Additional sums of £5 and £6 million have been allocated from end year flexibility in 2002-03 and 2003-04, for expenditure by institutions. Further funds for higher education institutions, including research, will be addressed early in the new year, once the Cabinet has responded to the Committee’s document.

Mae gwaelodlin Cyngor Cyllido Addysg Uwch Cymru yn cynnwys £10.8 miliwn i’w fuddsoddi’n benodol mewn seilwaith ymchwil mewn sefydliadau addysg uwch yng Nghymru. Dyrannwyd symiau ychwanegol o £5 a £6 miliwn o hyblygrwydd diwedd y flwyddyn yn 2002-03 a 2003-04, i’w gwario gan y sefydliadau. Ymdrinnir ag arian pellach ar gyfer sefydliadau addysg uwch, gan gynnwys ymchwil, yn gynnar yn y flwyddyn newydd, ar ôl i’r Cabinet ymateb i ddogfen y Pwyllgor.

In terms of the Rees report, you cannot have it all ways on budgets. I have never made any claims that this was a budget about more good news on spending. This budget is about efficient financial management. You must consider this budget in terms of the increases that were announced last year for the three-year period in the comprehensive spending review. Those are the figures on which you must concentrate. There were additional figures in the budget, which I was able to include, because of proper financial management.

Ynglŷn ag adroddiad Rees, ni allwch ei chael hi bob ffordd o ran cyllidebau. Nid wyf wedi honni erioed mai cyllideb sy’n rhoi mwy o newyddion da am wariant oedd hon. Mae’r gyllideb hon yn ymwneud â gwaith rheoli ariannol effeithlon. Rhaid ichi ystyried y gyllideb hon mewn perthynas â’r codiadau a gyhoeddwyd y llynedd ar gyfer y cyfnod tair blynedd yn yr adolygiad cynhwysfawr o wariant. Dyna’r ffigurau y dylech ganolbwyntio arnynt. Yr oedd ffigurau ychwanegol yn y gyllideb, y gallwn eu cynnwys oherwydd gwaith rheoli ariannol priodol.

Gareth Jones may well say, ‘What is going on in Westminster?’ I am interested in what is happening in Westminster on the issue of student fees. We should all be interested. However, at the end of the day, I get consequentials that arise from that, which means more money in the Welsh block. If you want me to devise a made in Wales solution that allows anybody in Westminster to say, ‘Well, Wales has done it on its own. There will be no consequentials. We will just allocate them to English budgets and there will be nothing for Wales’, then carry on. However, people in Wales want me to get the maximum amount of money possible from Whitehall departments, as consequentials in the system. That is the reality of financial management. You cannot have it both ways, as some of the contributions today wanted.

Gall Gareth Jones ddweud, ‘Beth sy’n digwydd yn San Steffan?’ Yr wyf fi yn ymddiddori yn yr hyn sy’n digwydd yn San Steffan o ran ffioedd myfyrwyr. Dylai pob un ohonom ymddiddori yn y mater hwnnw. Fodd bynnag, yn y pen draw, caf symiau ychwanegol sy’n deillio o hynny, sy’n golygu mwy o arian ym mloc Cymru. Os ydych am imi ddyfeisio ateb sy’n benodol i Gymru a fydd yn caniatáu i bobl yn San Steffan ddweud, ‘Wel, mae Cymru wedi llwyddo ar ei phen ei hun. Ni fydd symiau ychwanegol o ganlyniad. Dim ond i gyllidebau Lloegr y byddwn yn eu dyrannu ac ni fydd dim byd i Gymru’, yna ymlaen â chi. Fodd bynnag, mae pobl Cymru am imi gael yr arian mwyaf posibl gan adrannau Whitehall, fel symiau ychwanegol yn y system. Dyna realiti gwaith rheoli ariannol. Ni allwch ei chael hi bob ffordd, fel yr oedd rhai o’r cyfraniadau heddiw yn dymuno.

Some Members referred to the rural recovery plan. There is £65 million of resources in the rural recovery plan, including further proposals on rural rates relief and additional resources across the board. This rural relief plan is transparent. I reject the criticism that there is no transparency in any of the figures that I have provided. There is transparency in everything I do. In financial terms, everything is subject to a statement, figures and detailed technical advice. That is clear in the papers if you take the time to look through the budget lines in detail. I have always made it clear that if Members have advance questions about any of these issues, I would be delighted to deal with them.

Cyfeiriodd rhai Aelodau at y cynllun adfer gwledig. Mae £65 miliwn o adnoddau yn y cynllun adfer gwledig, gan gynnwys cynigion pellach ar ryddhad trethi gwledig ac adnoddau ychwanegol yn gyffredinol. Mae’r cynllun adfer gwledig hwn yn dryloyw. Gwrthodaf y feirniadaeth fod y ffigurau a ddarparwyd gennyf yn aneglur. Mae popeth a wnaf yn eglur. Mewn termau ariannol, mae popeth yn destun datganiad, ffigurau a chyngor technegol manwl. Mae hynny’n amlwg yn y papurau os cymerwch amser i edrych drwy linellau’r gyllideb yn fanwl. Yr wyf bob amser wedi’i gwneud yn glir y byddai’n bleser gennyf ddelio â chwestiynau ymlaen llaw gan Aelodau ynglŷn ag unrhyw un o’r materion hyn.

Jocelyn’s amendment 2 refers to reopening discussions with the Treasury in London to ensure adequate funding for Wales. We must consider the appropriate time for discussions with the Treasury. We have a spending review, but the bulk of changes to Assembly funding will continue under the Barnett formula. I know that people want a discussion about that and I will consider it. However, we must also recognise—and I take on board Nick Bourne’s point—that unless we know that we can ensure a better settlement, there is no point in opening Pandora’s box. At the end of the day, one must ensure that a needs based assessment would allocate the resources to Wales. It is important that we make it clear from this perspective.

Mae gwelliant 2 Jocelyn yn cyfeirio at ailddechrau trafodaethau â’r Trysorlys yn Llundain i sicrhau arian digonol i Gymru. Rhaid inni ystyried yr amser priodol i gynnal trafodaethau â’r Trysorlys. Cynhelir adolygiad o wariant, ond bydd y rhan fwyaf o’r newidiadau i gyllid y Cynulliad yn parhau o dan fformiwla Barnett. Gwn fod pobl am drafod hynny a byddaf yn ystyried y mater. Fodd bynnag, rhaid inni gydnabod hefyd—a derbyniaf bwynt Nick Bourne—nad oes diben codi’r pwnc i’r gwynt, oni bai ein bod yn gwybod y gallwn sicrhau setliad gwell. Yn y pen draw, rhaid sicrhau y byddai asesiad ar sail anghenion yn dyrannu’r adnoddau i Gymru. Mae’n bwysig ei bod yn glir o’r safbwynt hwn.

Peter Black indicated that this was a budget for public services. There are real pressures in the public sector in health and education and we have tried to deal with them. If I had additional resources, I would be delighted to make the necessary allocation.

Nododd Peter Black mai cyllideb i’r gwasanaethau cyhoeddus oedd hon. Mae pwysau gwirioneddol yn y sector cyhoeddus o ran iechyd ac addysg ac yr ydym wedi ceisio ymdrin â hwy. Pe bai adnoddau ychwanegol gennyf, byddai’n bleser gennyf wneud y dyraniad angenrheidiol.

Nick referred specifically to the issue of the reserve fund. I want to ensure that we have an adequate reserve. I thought long and hard before making the allocations from the reserve. However, I am certain that with the tight control that I have—which goes back to Dafydd Wigley’s point—on spending profiles and with proper reviews through the system, I will be able to identify other money in year. I might then be able to allocate a reserve or other pocket. I am happy that I could do that.

Cyfeiriodd Nick yn benodol at y mater o’r gronfa wrth gefn. Yr wyf am sicrhau bod gennym ddigon o arian wrth gefn. Meddyliais yn ddwys cyn gwneud y dyraniadau o’r gronfa wrth gefn. Fodd bynnag, yr wyf yn siŵr y byddaf yn gallu nodi symiau eraill yn ystod y flwyddyn, oherwydd y rheolaeth dynn sydd gennyf—sy’n dychwelyd at bwynt Dafydd Wigley—o’r proffiliau gwario ynghyd ag adolygiadau priodol drwy’r system. Gallwn wedyn fod mewn sefyllfa i ddyrannu arian wrth gefn neu swm arall. Yr wyf yn fodlon y gallwn wneud hynny.

Nick also asked me a specific point about small abattoirs. The budget changes reflect the changes of a lower than expected requirement in terms of that budget heading. However, I will write to you on the issue of managing budgets in-year. If there has been a low response under one budget heading, I transfer money to another budget. That is a financial management issue.

Gofynnodd Nick bwynt penodol imi am ladd-dai bach, hefyd. Mae’r newidiadau i’r gyllideb yn adlewyrchu’r newidiadau yn sgîl gofyniad a oedd yn is na’r disgwyl o ran y pennawd hwnnw o’r gyllideb. Fodd bynnag, ysgrifennaf atoch ynglŷn â’r mater o reoli cyllidebau o fewn blwyddyn ariannol. Os bu ymateb isel o dan un pennawd o’r gyllideb, trosglwyddaf yr arian i gyllideb arall. Mae hwn yn fater o reoli ariannol.

The money for the new Assembly building is contained within the budget. As the Presiding Officer indicated earlier today, a question has been tabled on the new building for the Plenary session next Thursday. He has indicated that he will allow me more time to respond to that, so that we can discuss some of the issues concerning the new building.

Mae’r arian ar gyfer adeilad newydd y Cynulliad wedi’i gynnwys yn y gyllideb. Fel y nododd y Llywydd yn gynharach heddiw, cyflwynwyd cwestiwn am yr adeilad newydd ar gyfer y Cyfarfod Llawn ddydd Iau nesaf. Mae wedi nodi y bydd yn rhoi mwy o amser imi ymateb i’r cwestiwn hwnnw, fel y gallwn drafod rhai o’r materion sy’n ymwneud â’r adeilad newydd.

Rosemary Butler made a point about childcare and I will raise that with Jane Hutt, because we are concerned about childcare issues and the need to ensure proper provision to allow women and men to access further and higher education.

Gwnaeth Rosemary Butler bwynt am ofal plant a byddaf yn ei godi gyda Jane Hutt, gan ein bod yn pryderu am faterion gofal plant a’r angen i sicrhau darpariaeth briodol i alluogi merched a dynion i ddilyn cyrsiau addysg bellach ac addysg uwch.

Phil Williams mentioned budget priorities. I will let you read the details on the information and communications technology and give you the opportunity to come back on that at another time. However, I refute your comments on higher education. I could not have made it clearer that as soon as the Education and Lifelong Learning Committee has completed its report and Jane decides on her response, I will make the matter my immediate priority. We recognise the comments on the importance of higher education that were made by the Economic Development Committee and its Chair in her letter to me.

Crybwyllodd Phil Williams flaenoriaethau’r gyllideb. Gadawaf ichi ddarllen y manylion am dechnoleg gwybodaeth a chyfathrebu gan roi’r cyfle ichi ymateb rywbryd arall. Fodd bynnag, gwrthodaf eich sylwadau ar addysg uwch. Ni allwn fod wedi bod yn fwy eglur ynglŷn â’m bwriad i sicrhau y bydd y mater yn brif flaenoriaeth gennyf, pan fydd y Pwyllgor Addysg a Dysgu Gydol Oes wedi cwblhau ei adroddiad a phan fydd Jane wedi penderfynu ar ei hymateb. Cydnabyddwn y sylwadau ar bwysigrwydd addysg uwch a wnaethpwyd gan y Pwyllgor Datblygu Economaidd a’r Cadeirydd yn ei llythyr ataf.

On European funding, there are several issues. We must ensure that European funding goes out of the door. It is incumbent on us all to ensure that the right balances are achieved in terms of European funding. The structural funds programme must be made to work. If expenditure does not seem to be progressing as anticipated, we will have to work hard to ensure that it is progressed to the level that we require. We want project sponsors to claim on time and we want to ensure that we stick to our expenditure profile. It is important that we all concentrate on dealing with these issues.

O ran arian Ewropeaidd, ceir nifer o faterion. Rhaid inni sicrhau bod arian Ewropeaidd yn cael ei ddefnyddio. Mae’n ddyletswydd ar bob un ohonom i sicrhau’r cydbwysedd cywir o ran arian Ewropeaidd. Rhaid sicrhau bod y rhaglen cronfeydd strwythurol yn gweithio. Os ymddengys nad yw’r gwariant yn digwydd yn ôl y disgwyl, bydd yn rhaid inni weithio’n galed i sicrhau ei fod yn cyrraedd y lefel sy’n ofynnol. Yr ydym am i noddwyr prosiectau hawlio ar amser ac yr ydym am sicrhau ein bod yn cadw at ein proffil gwariant. Mae’n bwysig bod pob un ohonom yn canolbwyntio ar ddelio â’r materion hyn.

Thank you, Val, for you words on the industrial and maritime museum in Swansea. I am sorry, Glyn that I did not get to hear your contribution. I agree with Peter Law that the health service is doing an excellent job. Elin mentioned the gravity of the agricultural situation. I think that we have acknowledged its gravity. In my speech, I mentioned that Carwyn currently has a plan on the boil. He will come to me when he has had the opportunity to consider his recommendations, and will ask me to make further provision in-year. The £60 million was additional, as was the Wales Tourist Board money. There was £6 million in the rural plan and an extra £2 million was financed today.

Diolch, Val, am eich geiriau am yr amgueddfa diwydiant a môr yn Abertawe. Mae’n ddrwg gennyf, Glyn, na chlywais eich cyfraniad. Cytunaf â Peter Law fod y gwasanaeth iechyd yn gwneud gwaith ardderchog. Crybwyllodd Elin natur ddifrifol y sefyllfa ym myd amaethyddiaeth. Credaf ein bod wedi cydnabod natur ddifrifol y sefyllfa. Yn fy araith, crybwyllais fod Carwyn wrthi’n paratoi cynllun ar hyn o bryd. Daw i’m gweld pan fydd wedi cael y cyfle i ystyried ei argymhellion, a bydd yn gofyn imi wneud darpariaethau pellach o fewn y flwyddyn ariannol. Yr oedd y £60 miliwn yn arian ychwanegol, fel yr arian i Fwrdd Croeso Cymru. Yr oedd £6 miliwn yn y cynllun gwledig ac ariannwyd £2 filiwn ychwanegol heddiw.

Peter Law was right to say that it is important to concentrate on community issues and recognise our duties to the community. David Davies raised the road haulage modernisation fund. There is a figure of £1.175 million in one of the baseline budgets, which deals with some of the issues arising from that fund, but I will send you a detailed note on it. Consequentials are coming to Wales and consequentials under any budget heading come to the Welsh block, but not necessarily to that specific area. There is ongoing work on the matter of fridges, which David raised. I am in discussion with Sue and I am anticipating a submission on it shortly. I think that I dealt with some of the issues raised by Gareth.

Yr oedd Peter Law yn gywir pan ddywedodd ei bod yn bwysig canolbwyntio ar faterion cymunedol gan gydnabod ein dyletswyddau i’r gymuned. Cododd David Davies y mater o gronfa moderneiddio cludiant ar y ffyrdd. Ceir ffigur o £1.175 miliwn mewn un o’r cyllidebau gwaelodlin, sy’n delio â rhai o’r materion sy’n deillio o’r gronfa honno, ond byddaf yn anfon nodyn manwl amdani atoch. Bydd symiau ychwanegol yn dod i Gymru a daw’r symiau hynny o dan unrhyw bennawd o’r gyllideb i floc Cymru, nid o reidrwydd i’r maes penodol hwnnw. Mae’r gwaith yn parhau o ran oergelloedd, sef pwnc a gododd David. Yr wyf yn trafod y mater gyda Sue a disgwyliaf sylwadau arno cyn bo hir. Credaf imi ddelio â rhai o’r materion a godwyd gan Gareth.

On Jonathan Morgan’s comments, the Minister will deal with matters raised on the Arts Council of Wales. However, the changes will not create more bureaucracy; they will be on the frontline. Rhodri Glyn referred to Cardiff’s bid to become European City of Culture. Following his letter I am minded to give further consideration to that provided that all the other pieces of the jigsaw fall into place. In answer to Helen Mary, Sue is keen to tackle the railways issue, but we must be careful with that. I welcome your comments on our achievements on equal pay. I will consider further mainstreaming equal opportunities issues, but that, of course, is only part of a provisional budget.

O ran sylwadau Jonathan Morgan, bydd y Gweinidog yn delio â’r materion a godwyd ynglŷn â Chyngor Celfyddydau Cymru. Fodd bynnag, ni fydd y newidiadau yn creu mwy o fiwrocratiaeth; byddant ar y rheng flaen. Cyfeiriodd Rhodri Glyn at gais Caerdydd i ddod yn Ddinas Diwylliant Ewrop. Yn dilyn ei lythyr, dymunaf ystyried hynny ymhellach, ar yr amod bod popeth arall yn dod i fwcwl. I ateb Helen Mary, mae Sue yn awyddus i fynd i’r afael â’r mater o ran y rheilffyrdd, ond rhaid inni fod yn ofalus ynglŷn â hynny. Croesawaf eich sylwadau ar ein cyflawniadau o ran cyflog cyfartal. Byddaf yn ystyried materion prif ffrydio cyfle cyfartal pellach, ond dim ond rhan o gyllideb dros dro yw hynny, wrth gwrs.

I should have extended a welcome to Dafydd Wigley on his return to the Plaid Cymru frontbench: I have debated the budget with him on many occasions. I share his point of view on underspends, but we must get them into perspective. We are one of the best departments in terms of the 3 per cent underspend. We must also understand that underspends emerge because of capacity issues. I made it clear in my speech that people do not always understand how to spend money. Only in recent years have people had to rethink their approach following a substantial increase in budget. I welcome Dafydd’s comments on bottom drawer projects because the best use of resources in-year is to identify that the money has not been spent, package those capital projects together and get the money into them and out of the door. That is the best way to manage that.

Dylwn fod wedi croesawu Dafydd Wigley wrth iddo ddychwelyd i fainc flaen Plaid Cymru: yr wyf wedi bod mewn sawl dadl gydag ef ynglŷn â’r gyllideb. Yr wyf yn cyd-weld ag ef ynglŷn â thanwariant, ond rhaid inni eu rhoi mewn persbectif. Yr ydym yn un o’r adrannau gorau o ran tanwariant o 3 y cant. Rhaid inni ddeall hefyd bod tanwario oherwydd materion capasiti. Eglurais yn fy araith nad yw pobl yn deall bob amser sut i wario arian. Dim ond yn ystod y blynyddoedd diweddaraf y bu’n rhaid i bobl ailystyried eu hymagwedd yn sgîl cyllideb sylweddol fwy. Croesawaf sylwadau Dafydd ar brosiectau wrth gefn gan mai’r defnydd gorau o adnoddau o fewn blwyddyn ariannol yw nodi na wariwyd yr arian, cyfuno’r prosiectau cyfalaf hynny a rhoi’r arian iddynt. Dyna’r ffordd orau o reoli’r mater hwnnw.

There is no spin in this budget. I made it clear that it is about the proper allocation of resources. There are bits of good news and restructuring, but we had good news last year through the comprehensive spending review. Our opportunity will come again, the next time we get a good year from the Treasury, I hope.

Nid oes sbin yn y gyllideb hon. Eglurais mai dyrannu adnoddau mewn ffordd briodol sydd wrth ei gwraidd. Ceir darnau o newyddion da a gwaith ailstrwythuro, ond cawsom newyddion da y llynedd drwy’r adolygiad cynhwysfawr o wariant. Daw ein cyfle eto, y tro nesaf y cawn flwyddyn dda gan y Trysorlys, gobeithiaf.

Rhodri Glyn Thomas spoken in English p. 97

Rhodri Glyn Thomas siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 97

Point of order. Edwina referred to the fact that I had called for more financial support for the City of Culture bid. I should have declared an interest, as I am a member of the board of the Cardiff Wales City of Culture 2008 bid.

Pwynt o drefn. Cyfeiriodd Edwina at y ffaith imi alw am fwy o gymorth ariannol i’r cais i fod yn Ddinas Ddiwylliant. Dylwn fod wedi datgan buddiant, gan fy mod yn aelod o fwrdd cais Caerdydd Cymru i fod yn Ddinas Ddiwylliant 2008.

Gwelliant 1 Dafydd Wigley t. 97

Amendment 1 Dafydd Wigley p. 97

GwrthodwydRejected O blaidFor 24 YmatalAbstain 0 Yn erbynAgainst 32

Gwrthodwyd y gwelliant.

Amendment defeated.

Sut y pleidleisiodd yr AelodauHow Members voted
O blaidFor (24)
  • Nick Bourne
  • Alun Cairns
  • Cynog Dafis
  • David Davies
  • Geraint Davies
  • Glyn Davies
  • Janet Davies
  • Jocelyn Davies
  • William Graham
  • Brian Hancock
  • Pauline Jarman
  • Elin Jones
  • Gareth Jones
  • Helen Mary Jones
  • Ieuan Wyn Jones
  • David Lloyd
  • David Melding
  • Jonathan Morgan
  • Peter Rogers
  • Janet Ryder
  • Owen John Thomas
  • Rhodri Glyn Thomas
  • Dafydd Wigley
  • Phil Williams
Yn erbynAgainst (32)
  • Lorraine Barrett
  • Mick Bates
  • Peter Black
  • Eleanor Burnham
  • Rosemary Butler
  • Christine Chapman
  • Jane Davidson
  • Andrew Davies
  • Ron Davies
  • Richard Edwards
  • Sue Essex
  • Delyth Evans
  • Michael German
  • Brian Gibbons
  • Janice Gregory
  • John Griffiths
  • Christine Gwyther
  • Alison Halford
  • Edwina Hart
  • Jane Hutt
  • Ann Jones
  • Carwyn Jones
  • Peter Law
  • Huw Lewis
  • Val Lloyd
  • Tom Middlehurst
  • Rhodri Morgan
  • Lynne Neagle
  • Alun Pugh
  • Jenny Randerson
  • Karen Sinclair
  • Gwenda Thomas

Gwelliant 2 Dafydd Wigley t. 98

Amendment 2 Dafydd Wigley p. 98

GwrthodwydRejected O blaidFor 23 YmatalAbstain 1 Yn erbynAgainst 32

Gwrthodwyd y gwelliant.

Amendment defeated.

Sut y pleidleisiodd yr AelodauHow Members voted
O blaidFor (23)
  • Nick Bourne
  • Cynog Dafis
  • David Davies
  • Geraint Davies
  • Glyn Davies
  • Janet Davies
  • Jocelyn Davies
  • William Graham
  • Brian Hancock
  • Pauline Jarman
  • Elin Jones
  • Gareth Jones
  • Helen Mary Jones
  • Ieuan Wyn Jones
  • David Lloyd
  • David Melding
  • Jonathan Morgan
  • Peter Rogers
  • Janet Ryder
  • Owen John Thomas
  • Rhodri Glyn Thomas
  • Dafydd Wigley
  • Phil Williams
YmatalAbstain (1)
  • Alun Cairns
Yn erbynAgainst (32)
  • Lorraine Barrett
  • Mick Bates
  • Peter Black
  • Eleanor Burnham
  • Rosemary Butler
  • Christine Chapman
  • Jane Davidson
  • Andrew Davies
  • Ron Davies
  • Richard Edwards
  • Sue Essex
  • Delyth Evans
  • Michael German
  • Brian Gibbons
  • Janice Gregory
  • John Griffiths
  • Christine Gwyther
  • Alison Halford
  • Edwina Hart
  • Jane Hutt
  • Ann Jones
  • Carwyn Jones
  • Peter Law
  • Huw Lewis
  • Val Lloyd
  • Tom Middlehurst
  • Rhodri Morgan
  • Lynne Neagle
  • Alun Pugh
  • Jenny Randerson
  • Karen Sinclair
  • Gwenda Thomas

Cynnig NDM786 Edwina Hart t. 99

Motion NDM786 Edwina Hart p. 99

DerbyniwydAdopted O blaidFor 32 YmatalAbstain 16 Yn erbynAgainst 8

Derbyniwyd y cynnig.

Motion carried.

Sut y pleidleisiodd yr AelodauHow Members voted
O blaidFor (32)
  • Lorraine Barrett
  • Mick Bates
  • Peter Black
  • Eleanor Burnham
  • Rosemary Butler
  • Christine Chapman
  • Jane Davidson
  • Andrew Davies
  • Ron Davies
  • Richard Edwards
  • Sue Essex
  • Delyth Evans
  • Michael German
  • Brian Gibbons
  • Janice Gregory
  • John Griffiths
  • Christine Gwyther
  • Alison Halford
  • Edwina Hart
  • Jane Hutt
  • Ann Jones
  • Carwyn Jones
  • Peter Law
  • Huw Lewis
  • Val Lloyd
  • Tom Middlehurst
  • Rhodri Morgan
  • Lynne Neagle
  • Alun Pugh
  • Jenny Randerson
  • Karen Sinclair
  • Gwenda Thomas
YmatalAbstain (16)
  • Cynog Dafis
  • Geraint Davies
  • Janet Davies
  • Jocelyn Davies
  • Brian Hancock
  • Pauline Jarman
  • Elin Jones
  • Gareth Jones
  • Helen Mary Jones
  • Ieuan Wyn Jones
  • David Lloyd
  • Janet Ryder
  • Owen John Thomas
  • Rhodri Glyn Thomas
  • Dafydd Wigley
  • Phil Williams
Yn erbynAgainst (8)
  • Nick Bourne
  • Alun Cairns
  • David Davies
  • Glyn Davies
  • William Graham
  • David Melding
  • Jonathan Morgan
  • Peter Rogers

Alun Cairns spoken in English p. 100

Alun Cairns siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 100

Point of order. I would like to place on record that I abstained on the second amendment by mistake.

Pwynt o drefn. Hoffwn gofnodi imi ymatal ar yr ail welliant ar gam.

Sefydlu Comisiwn Dylunio i Gymru

The Establishment of a Design Commission for Wales

John Marek The Deputy Presiding Officer spoken in English p. 100

John Marek Y Dirprwy Lywydd siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 100

I have selected amendments 1, 2, 3, 4, 5 and 6 in the name of Jocelyn Davies.

Yr wyf wedi dethol gwelliannau 1, 2, 3, 4, 5 a 6 yn enw Jocelyn Davies.

Sue Essex The Minister for Environment spoken in English p. 100

Sue Essex Y Gweinidog dros yr Amgylchedd siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 100

I propose that

Cynigiaf fod

Sue Essex The Minister for Environment (continued) spoken in English p. 101

Sue Essex Y Gweinidog dros yr Amgylchedd (parhad) siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 101

I thank Members for staying for this debate; we appear to have a full house. I am delighted to propose this motion to establish a design commission today. I hope that you were able to access the background information that was sent to all of you. I presume that you have received it and have been able to consider the principle on which the commission is based.

Diolchaf i’r Aelodau am aros ar gyfer y ddadl hon; ymddengys ein bod oll yn bresennol. Mae’n bleser gennyf gyflwyno’r cynnig hwn i sefydlu comisiwn dylunio heddiw. Gobeithiaf ichi lwyddo i fwrw golwg dros yr wybodaeth gefndir a anfonwyd at bob un ohonoch. Tybiaf ichi ei derbyn ac ichi gael cyfle i ystyried yr egwyddor y mae’r comisiwn yn seiliedig arni.

I am committed to improving design standards across Wales. Better design, buildings and landscaping is good for everyone. It is good for the economy, the environment and the people who live in and enjoy those landscapes. This is not a marginal issue; it is central.

Yr wyf yn ymrwymedig i wella safonau dylunio ledled Cymru. Mae gwell dylunio, adeiladau a thirlunio o fudd i bawb. Mae o fudd i’r economi, yr amgylchedd a’r bobl sydd yn byw yn y tirluniau hynny ac yn eu mwynhau. Nid mater ymylol yw hwn; mae’n fater canolog.

Last year, I announced the design initiative. I will mention two aspects. First is the technical advice note. Technical advice notes may be considered to be dry documents by some, but that is not true in this case. People outside the Assembly, led by Robert Firth, the architect, designed the document. It is a practical, accessible and readable document, containing good information on improving design for all those interested in doing so.

Y llynedd, cyhoeddais y fenter ddylunio. Soniaf am ddwy agwedd. Y gyntaf yw’r nodyn cyngor technegol. Efallai fod rhai o’r farn mai dogfennau sych yw nodiadau cyngor technegol, ond nid yw hynny’n wir yn yr achos hwn. Pobl y tu allan i’r Cynulliad, o dan arweiniad y pensaer, Robert Firth, a gynlluniodd y ddogfen. Mae’n ddogfen ymarferol, hygyrch sydd yn hawdd i’w darllen, yn cynnwys gwybodaeth dda ar wella dylunio i bawb sydd â diddordeb mewn gwneud hynny.

The second aspect is the design commission. Before we reached this stage today, I established a steering group of professionals from across the board to consider how to take it forward. The group’s unanimous view was that establishing a design commission in this way was the best way forward. It is worth remembering that Scotland and England have a champion body for design. It is therefore important that we establish one for Wales.

Yr ail agwedd yw’r comisiwn dylunio. Cyn inni gyrraedd y cam hwn heddiw, sefydlais grŵp llywio o bobl broffesiynol o bob cefndir i ystyried sut i’w ddatblygu. Barn unfrydol y grŵp oedd mai sefydlu comisiwn dylunio o’r fath yw’r ffordd orau ymlaen. Mae’n werth cofio bod gan yr Alban a Lloegr gorff arweiniol o ran dylunio. Felly mae’n bwysig inni sefydlu corff o’r fath i Gymru.

In the past, we have discussed what we might mean by design. There are several priorities that need to be included. First, on a wider understanding of design and its importance, it is crucial that we stress that this is about improving people’s quality of life. Wherever you live in Wales, and in whatever community you live, you deserve and should expect good design.

Yn y gorffennol, trafodwyd yr hyn y gallem ei olygu gan ddylunio. Mae angen cynnwys sawl blaenoriaeth. Yn gyntaf, ar ddealltwriaeth ehangach o ddylunio a’i bwysigrwydd, mae’n hanfodol inni bwysleisio ei fod yn ymwneud â gwella ansawdd bywyd pobl. Pa le bynnag y byddwch yn byw yng Nghymru, ac ym mha gymuned bynnag, yr ydych yn haeddu gwaith dylunio da a dylech ei ddisgwyl.

The second priority is using best practice. We know that it is beneficial if someone else has an example that you can, at least, learn from, although not necessarily copy. It is good to have best practice to learn from. If we have examples of best practice in Wales that we can disseminate, that is even better.

Yr ail flaenoriaeth yw defnyddio arfer gorau. Gwyddom ei fod yn fuddiol os bydd gan rywun arall enghraifft y gallwch, o leiaf, ddysgu ohoni, er nad o reidrwydd ei chopïo. Da yw gallu dysgu o arfer gorau. Os oes gennym enghreifftiau o arfer gorau yng Nghymru y gallwn eu lledaenu, mae hynny’n well fyth.

Thirdly, we aim to establish links with similar bodies throughout the UK. The final point is the provision of tailored training courses in design, which was strongly emphasised by local government. That does not have to be exclusively for local government, but local government must be at the forefront. It is local government that decides on planning applications and which conducts negotiations with applicants prior to those decisions being made. It has pressed for this, and, coming from a local government background, with many years’ experience of planning committees, I think that this aspect is important and I would like to give it priority.

Yn drydydd, ein nod yw sefydlu cysylltiadau â chyrff tebyg ledled y DU. Y pwynt olaf fydd darparu cyrsiau hyfforddiant wedi’u teilwra mewn dylunio, a bwysleisiwyd yn gryf gan lywodraeth leol. Nid oes rhaid i hynny fod ar gyfer llywodraeth leol yn unig, ond rhaid i lywodraeth leol fod ar flaen y gad. Llywodraeth leol sydd yn penderfynu ar geisiadau cynllunio ac yn cynnal negodiadau gydag ymgeiswyr cyn gwneud y penderfyniadau hynny. Mae wedi pwyso am hyn, a, chan fy mod yn dod o gefndir llywodraeth leol, gyda sawl blwyddyn o brofiad o bwyllgorau cynllunio, credaf fod yr agwedd hon yn bwysig a hoffwn roi blaenoriaeth iddi.

On the design commission’s structure, there will be a sole company member. The Assembly will appoint a chair and directors of the board, following a proper public procurement debate. The structure I recommend makes the commission accountable to the Assembly but it ensures that it has day-to-day responsibility for its finances. The important benefit of the structure is that it ensures that it has that degree of independence. I do not want it tied to any apron strings. It can seek additional sources of funding, which is important. We are giving the commission £100,000 each year. That is in the budget and that is the first time that it has happened. However, with this structure, this company can also access other money and sponsorship, which I am confident is available, in order to increase its funding. The Assembly can retain some degree of control on its activities. It can be wound up if anything goes badly wrong, although I do not expect that to happen. It is less cumbersome administratively than some of the other options. You will find the other options we considered in the background information. So that is how the structure is being dealt with.

O ran strwythur y comisiwn dylunio, un aelod cwmni fydd. Bydd y Cynulliad yn penodi cadeirydd a chyfarwyddwyr i’r bwrdd, yn dilyn dadl gaffael gyhoeddus briodol. Yn ôl y strwythur a argymhellaf, bydd y comisiwn yn atebol i’r Cynulliad ond bydd ganddo gyfrifoldeb o ddydd i ddydd dros ei gyllid. Budd pwysig y strwythur yw ei fod yn sicrhau bod ganddo rywfaint o annibyniaeth. Nid wyf am iddo fod ynghlwm wrth linyn ffedog unrhyw un. Gall fynd ar drywydd ffynonellau eraill o arian, sydd yn bwysig. Yr ydym yn rhoi £100,000 bob blwyddyn i’r comisiwn. Mae hynny yn y gyllideb a dyna’r tro cyntaf i hynny ddigwydd. Fodd bynnag, gyda’r strwythur hwn, gall y cwmni hefyd gael mynediad i arian a nawdd arall, yr wyf yn hyderus eu bod ar gael, er mwyn cynyddu ei gyllid. Gall y Cynulliad gadw rhywfaint o reolaeth ar ei weithgareddau. Gellir ei ddiddymu os aiff unrhyw beth difrifol o’i le, er na ddisgwyliaf i hynny ddigwydd. Mae’n llai trafferthus yn weinyddol na rhai o’r opsiynau eraill. Nodir yr opsiynau eraill a ystyriwyd gennym yn yr wybodaeth gefndir. Felly dyna sut yr ymdrinnir â’r strwythur.

On the amendments tabled, I will support amendments 1, 5 and 6 in the name of Jocelyn Davies. On amendment 5, concerning the inclusion of various professional groups on the board; I made that commitment when I launched the Wales Branch of the Landscape Institute last week.

O ran y gwelliannau a gyflwynwyd, cefnogaf welliannau 1, 5 a 6 yn enw Jocelyn Davies. O ran gwelliant 5, sydd yn ymwneud â chynnwys amrywiol grwpiau proffesiynol ar y bwrdd; ymrwymais i hynny wrth lansio Cangen Cymru o’r Sefydliad Tirwedd yr wythnos diwethaf.

On the matter of making a presentation to the Environment, Planning and Transport Committee, I apologise. That should have been done, but has not been done because of the recess. I told the Committee yesterday that I would be delighted to make that presentation and perhaps open it to others who do not sit on the Environment, Planning and Transport Committee but who would also be interested. I hope to make that presentation as soon as possible.

O ran gwneud cyflwyniad i Bwyllgor yr Amgylchedd, Cynllunio a Thrafnidiaeth, ymddiheuraf. Dylid bod wedi gwneud hynny, ond ni wnaethpwyd hynny oherwydd y toriad. Dywedais wrth y Pwyllgor ddoe y byddai’n bleser gennyf wneud y cyflwyniad hwnnw ac efallai ei agor i eraill nad ydynt yn eistedd ar Bwyllgor yr Amgylchedd, Cynllunio a Thrafnidiaeth ond a fyddai hefyd â diddordeb. Gobeithiaf wneud y cyflwyniad hwnnw cyn gynted â phosibl.

On amendments 2, 3 and 4, which seek to direct the design commission, as I told Helen Mary yesterday, if the organisation is established in the manner I described, we cannot direct it. Nevertheless, the points that she raised are important ones. We can make those points on equality of opportunity and non-prestige, and bread-and-butter improvements in design in a memorandum of association. If that is acceptable to you, I ask you to withdraw amendments 2, 3 and 4. This is an exciting venture and I hope that people will back it with enthusiasm.

O ran gwelliannau 2, 3 a 4, sydd yn ymwneud â rhoi cyfarwyddyd i’r comisiwn dylunio, fel y dywedais wrth Helen Mary ddoe, os caiff y sefydliad ei sefydlu yn ôl y drefn a ddisgrifiais, ni allwn roi cyfarwyddyd iddo. Er hynny, mae’r pwyntiau a godwyd ganddi yn bwyntiau pwysig. Gallwn wneud y pwyntiau hynny ar gydraddoldeb cyfle a diffyg statws, a gwelliannau sylfaenol o ran dylunio mewn memorandwm sefydlu. Os yw hynny’n dderbyniol i chi, gofynnaf ichi dynnu gwelliannau 2, 3 a 4 yn ôl. Mae hon yn fenter gyffrous a gobeithiaf y bydd pobl yn rhoi cefnogaeth frwd iddi.

Helen Mary Jones spoken in English p. 103

Helen Mary Jones siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 103

I propose the following amendments in the name of Jocelyn Davies.

Cynigiaf y gwelliannau canlynol yn enw Jocelyn Davies.

Helen Mary Jones (continued) spoken in English p. 104

Helen Mary Jones (parhad) siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 104

Amendment 1: in point 4 delete ‘detailed’.

Gwelliant 1: dileu ‘manwl’ ym mhwynt 4.

I propose amendment 2. After point 4 insert new point and renumber accordingly:

Cynigiaf welliant 2. Ar ôl pwynt 4, gosod pwynt newydd ac ail-rifo’r pwyntiau fel y bo’n briodol:

Helen Mary Jones (continued) spoken in English p. 104

Helen Mary Jones (parhad) siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 104

I propose amendment 3. After point 4 insert new point and renumber accordingly:

Cynigiaf welliant 3. Ar ôl pwynt 4, gosod pwynt newydd ac ail-rifo’r pwyntiau sy’n weddill fel y bo’n briodol:

Helen Mary Jones (continued) spoken in English p. 104

Helen Mary Jones (parhad) siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 104

I propose amendment 4. After point 4 insert new point and renumber accordingly:

Cynigiaf welliant 4. Ar ôl pwynt 4, gosod pwynt newydd ac ail-rifo’r pwyntiau fel y bo’n briodol:

Helen Mary Jones (continued) spoken in English p. 104

Helen Mary Jones (parhad) siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 104

I propose amendment 5. After point 4 insert new point and renumber accordingly:

Cynigiaf welliant 5. Ar ôl pwynt 4, gosod pwynt newydd ac ail-rifo’r pwyntiau fel y bo’n briodol:

Helen Mary Jones (continued) spoken in English p. 104

Helen Mary Jones (parhad) siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 104

I propose amendment 6. In point 5, insert after ‘possible’:

Cynigiaf welliant 6. Ym mhwynt 5, gosod ar ôl ‘hwnnw’:

Helen Mary Jones (continued) spoken in English p. 105

Helen Mary Jones (parhad) siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 105

Plaid Cymru—the Party of Wales welcomes the establishment of the design commission for Wales. We are all aware of the impact that the built environment has on everybody’s lives. Poor design of public housing estates, for example, has exacerbated social exclusion in some areas whereas beautiful, appropriate design can not only make life easier for everybody, it can lift our hearts. The new design commission will play a vital role in raising design standards, and that will benefit us all. However, we were concerned about the state of the proposal that has been presented to us, which is why we tabled our amendments. The document establishing a design commission for Wales is one and a half pages long and cannot be described as detailed. I have discussed this matter with the Minister and I am glad that she acknowledges that concern and will support amendment 1.

Mae Plaid Cymru—the Party of Wales yn croesawu sefydlu’r comisiwn dylunio i Gymru. Yr ydym oll yn ymwybodol o effaith yr amgylchedd adeiledig ar fywydau pawb. Mae dyluniad gwael ystadau tai cyhoeddus, er enghraifft, wedi gwaethygu’r sefyllfa o ran allgáu cymdeithasol mewn rhai ardaloedd. Gall dylunio prydferth a phriodol nid yn unig wneud bywyd yn haws i bawb, gall godi ein calonnau. Bydd y comisiwn dylunio newydd yn chwarae rhan hanfodol wrth godi safonau dylunio, a bydd hynny o fudd i bob un ohonom. Fodd bynnag, yr oeddem yn pryderu am gyflwr y cynnig a gyflwynwyd ger ein bron, a dyna pam y cyflwynasom ein gwelliannau. Tudalen a hanner o hyd yw’r ddogfen ar gyfer sefydlu comisiwn dylunio i Gymru ac ni ellid ei disgrifio fel dogfen fanwl. Trafodais y mater hwn gyda’r Gweinidog ac yr wyf yn falch ei bod yn cydnabod y pryder hwnnw ac y bydd yn cefnogi gwelliant 1.

Amendments 2, 3 and 4 seek to set out some of the framework within which the commission should work. The promotion of sustainable development should sit at the heart of the commission’s work. Good design can play a major part in promoting access, equality and social inclusion. The commission must identify, develop and promote good practice. Too often in the past, professionals have shown an interest in good design in the context of major prestige projects, but have taken a slightly ‘it will do’ approach with more day-to-day developments, such as housing estates and industrial units.

Mae gwelliannau 2, 3 a 4 yn ceisio nodi rhannau o’r fframwaith y dylai’r comisiwn weithio o’i fewn. Dylai hyrwyddo datblygu cynaliadwy fod wrth wraidd gwaith y comisiwn. Gall dylunio da chwarae rhan fawr wrth hyrwyddo mynediad, cydraddoldeb a chynhwysiant cymdeithasol. Rhaid i’r comisiwn nodi, datblygu a hyrwyddo arfer da. Yn rhy aml yn y gorffennol, mae pobl broffesiynol wedi dangos diddordeb mewn dylunio da yng nghyd-destun prosiectau blaenllaw, pwysig, ond wedi dilyn ymagwedd ‘gwnaiff y tro’ gyda datblygiadau mwy cyffredin, megis ystadau tai ac unedau diwydiannol.

It is those developments that have the greatest impact upon people’s lives, and it is right therefore, that the commission promotes excellence in such developments. However, we accept the Minister’s comments on the relationship between the new commission and the Assembly. We will withdraw these amendments when we receive her categorical assurance that she will address the issues in the memorandum of association with the commission.

Y datblygiadau hynny sy’n cael yr effaith fwyaf ar fywydau pobl, ac felly mae’n briodol i’r comisiwn hyrwyddo rhagoriaeth mewn datblygiadau o’r fath. Fodd bynnag, derbyniwn sylwadau’r Gweinidog ar y berthynas rhwng y comisiwn newydd a’r Cynulliad. Tynnwn y gwelliannau hyn yn ôl pan dderbyniwn ei sicrwydd pendant y bydd yn ymdrin â’r materion yn y memorandwm sefydlu gyda’r comisiwn.

The potential make-up of the commission’s board has caused concern, particularly in light of lessons learned by the equivalent body in England. The commission should not be a representative body—a line-up of the usual suspects. That is not what it should be. Rather, it must be a small group of committed, energised individuals. It is important that they offer a range of expertise. I am grateful to Sue for accepting our amendments in this regard. I am also grateful to the Minister for accepting our amendment 6 and agreeing to share the commission’s developing brief fully with the Environment, Planning and Transport Committee.

Mae cyfansoddiad posibl bwrdd y comisiwn wedi peri pryder, yn arbennig yng ngoleuni’r gwersi a ddysgwyd gan y corff cyfatebol yn Lloegr. Ni ddylai’r comisiwn fod yn gorff cynrychioliadol—yr un hen bobl. Nid dyna a ddylai ddigwydd. Yn hytrach, rhaid iddo fod yn grŵp bach o unigolion ymrwymedig a brwd. Mae’n bwysig iddynt gynnig amrywiaeth o arbenigedd. Yr wyf yn ddiolchgar i Sue am dderbyn ein gwelliannau yn hyn o beth. Yr wyf hefyd yn ddiolchgar i’r Gweinidog am dderbyn ein gwelliant 6 a chytuno i rannu brîff y comisiwn wrth iddo ddatblygu yn llawn â Phwyllgor yr Amgylchedd, Cynllunio a Thrafnidiaeth.

My final point relates to funding. The sum of £100,000 may seem generous funding, and I accept the Minister’s hope to raise funds from other sources. However, given the ambitious scope of the proposed commission’s work, I am concerned that the budget may prove inadequate in the longer term. I ask the Minister to keep it under review.

Mae fy mhwynt olaf yn ymwneud ag arian. Gallai £100,000 ymddangos yn hael, a derbyniaf obaith y Gweinidog y caiff arian ei godi o ffynonellau eraill. Fodd bynnag, o gofio cwmpas uchelgeisiol gwaith y comisiwn arfaethedig, pryderaf efallai na fydd y gyllideb yn ddigonol yn yr hir dymor. Gofynnaf i’r Gweinidog ei hadolygu’n rheolaidd.

I commend this motion, and amendments 1, 5 and 6 to the Assembly.

Cymeradwyaf y cynnig hwn, a gwelliannau 1, 5 a 6 i’r Cynulliad.

Rosemary Butler spoken in English p. 106

Rosemary Butler siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 106

I congratulate Sue Essex on her proposal. I know that the subject has been dear to her heart for several years, and I am delighted that she was able to present it so soon.

Hoffwn longyfarch Sue Essex ar ei chynnig. Gwn y bu’r pwnc yn agos at ei chalon ers blynyddoedd, ac yr wyf yn falch iawn iddi allu ei gyflwyno mor fuan.

Some of Britain’s most outstanding and established architects and designers are Welsh. Wales also has several excellent art schools, which produce highly creative designers each year. Many of those have a strong desire to remain in Wales to build their careers. The creation of a design commission for Wales would provide Welsh-based designers with much-needed support. It would provide our designers with additional pride and confidence in their profession, and, hopefully, give them the high status achieved by designers in Italy, Scandinavia and France. While helping them to define their new role in the new Wales, the commission would also play a vital role in helping manufacturers and other employers, national and local politicians, to gain a better understanding of the crucial role that good design can play in building a better Wales.

Cymry yw rhai o benseiri a dylunwyr mwyaf amlwg a sefydledig Prydain. Mae sawl ysgol gelf ardderchog yng Nghymru hefyd, sy’n cynhyrchu dylunwyr hynod greadigol bob blwyddyn. Mae gan sawl un ohonynt awydd cryf i aros yng Nghymru i ddatblygu eu gyrfaoedd. Byddai creu comisiwn dylunio i Gymru yn rhoi cymorth y mae ei angen yn fawr ar ddylunwyr yng Nghymru. Byddai’n rhoi balchder a hyder ychwanegol i’n dylunwyr yn eu proffesiwn, a, gobeithio, yn rhoi’r statws uchel iddynt a gyrhaeddir gan ddylunwyr yn yr Eidal, Llychlyn a Ffrainc. Drwy eu helpu i ddiffinio eu swyddogaeth newydd yn y Gymru newydd, byddai’r comisiwn hefyd yn chwarae rhan hanfodol wrth helpu gweithgynhyrchwyr a chyflogwyr eraill, gwleidyddion cenedlaethol a lleol, i feithrin gwell ddealltwriaeth o’r rôl hanfodol y gall dylunio da ei chwarae wrth adeiladu Cymru well.

During the post-war years, designers and architects were at the centre of efforts to rebuild British society. Creating a design commission would demonstrate the Assembly’s determination to encourage Welsh designers in their efforts to help rebuild the new Wales, particularly our economy, following the massive changes in recent years.

Yn ystod y blynyddoedd wedi’r rhyfel, yr oedd dylunwyr a phenseiri wrth wraidd yr ymdrechion i ailadeiladu cymdeithas ym Mhrydain. Byddai creu comisiwn dylunio yn dangos penderfyniad y Cynulliad i annog dylunwyr o Gymru yn eu hymdrechion i helpu ailadeiladu’r Gymru newydd, yn arbennig ein heconomi, yn dilyn y newidiadau enfawr a fu dros y blynyddoedd diwethaf.

Good design is essential to help modernise industry, whether it is designing new cars or vacuum cleaners. Perhaps their first challenge could be to design new headsets for the Chamber.

Mae dylunio da yn hanfodol i helpu moderneiddio diwydiant, boed yn ddylunio ceir newydd neu sugnwyr llwch. Efallai y gallent ddylunio clustffonau newydd i’r Siambr fel eu her gyntaf.

The commission would play an important part in establishing a stronger economic base for our nation, as well as improving the quality of every-day life in Wales. I am delighted to support this excellent initiative, particularly as I am married to a designer.

Byddai’r comisiwn yn chwarae rhan bwysig wrth sefydlu sylfaen economaidd gryfach i’n gwlad, yn ogystal â gwella ansawdd bywyd bob dydd yng Nghymru. Mae’n bleser gennyf gefnogi’r fenter ardderchog hon, yn arbennig gan fy mod yn briod â dylunydd.

David Davies spoken in English p. 107

David Davies siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 107

Briefly, one of the saddest aspects of housing policy over the past 40 years has been the sweeping away of pre-war terraced houses, replacing them with tower blocks and purpose-built estates. Those replacements were designed with the best intentions, but have often led, as Helen Mary noted, to social exclusion and other social problems.

Yn gryno, un o agweddau tristaf polisi tai dros y 40 mlynedd diwethaf fu cael gwared ar dai teras o’r cyfnod cyn y rhyfel, gan adeiladu tyrau uchel ac ystadau pwrpasol yn eu lle. Dyluniwyd yr adeiladau newydd gyda bwriadau da, ond yn aml, fel y nododd Helen Mary, maent wedi arwain at allgáu cymdeithasol a phroblemau cymdeithasol eraill.

I come from Newport, therefore I ought to mention the move towards designing shopping malls homogeneously. These now seem to litter every town and city in the United Kingdom. There was a time when you could go anywhere in the United Kingdom and have an idea as to where you were, simply by studying the architecture. Those days have gone, we have the same shopping centres in every town and city—

Yr wyf yn hanu o Gasnewydd, felly dylwn grybwyll yr arfer o ddylunio canolfannau siopa unffurf. Ymddengys eu bod yn rhemp ymhob tref a dinas yn y Deyrnas Unedig. Yr oedd adeg pan allech fynd i unrhyw le yn y Deyrnas Unedig a chael syniad o’ch lleoliad, drwy astudio’r bensaernïaeth. Mae’r dyddiau hynny wedi diflannu, mae’r un canolfannau siopa yn amlwg ymhob tref a dinas—

Brian Gibbons spoken in English p. 107

Brian Gibbons siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 107

I agree with that.

Cytunaf â hynny.

David Davies spoken in English p. 107

David Davies siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 107

Is that an intervention? No, I am being supported from the Labour benches, which is a rare change.

Ai ymyriad oedd hwnnw? Na, yr wyf yn cael cefnogaeth gan feinciau’r Blaid Lafur, rhywbeth nad yw’n digwydd yn aml.

There appears to be a consensus on this matter and the Conservative party also welcomes this design commission, in theory. However, our only problem is procedural. As a previous speaker alluded, one and a half pages is not a detailed discussion of what to expect. The Environment, Planning and Transport Committee, which generates planning law, should help to formulate policy. Therefore, we will be suggesting that the scheme comes back to the Committee, where I believe it will be discussed positively by all Committee members before being referred back to the Assembly.

Ymddengys fod yna gytundeb barn ar y mater hwn ac mae’r blaid Geidwadol hefyd yn croesawu’r comisiwn dylunio hwn, mewn egwyddor. Fodd bynnag, ein hunig broblem yw’r weithdrefn. Fel yr awgrymodd siaradwr blaenorol, nid yw tudalen a hanner yn drafodaeth fanwl o’r hyn i’w ddisgwyl. Dylai Pwyllgor yr Amgylchedd, Cynllunio a Thrafnidiaeth, sy’n cynhyrchu cyfraith gynllunio, helpu i lunio polisi. Felly, byddwn yn awgrymu y dylid dychwelyd y cynllun i’r Pwyllgor, lle y credaf y caiff ei drafod yn gadarnhaol gan bob aelod o’r Pwyllgor cyn cael ei ailgyfeirio i’r Cynulliad.

Eleanor Burnham spoken in English p. 108

Eleanor Burnham siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 108

The Liberal Democrats welcome the proposal to set up the design commission. However, we are concerned that it could end up as an unnecessary quango. Prestigious building projects in Wales have a tendency to come unstuck, as the Assembly knows all too well. If the commission achieves its objectives of championing high standards of design and architecture in the public and private sector in Wales, promoting wider understanding of design issues and the importance of good standards, and enhancing the built environment across all sectors, then we will tackle the design and building of high profile projects in future in a more assured, confident and successful manner. Perhaps the design commission could play a role in examining the finance and costs involved in major building projects and advise the Assembly expertly and independently on these.

Mae’r Democratiaid Rhyddfrydol yn croesawu’r cynnig i sefydlu’r comisiwn dylunio. Fodd bynnag, yr ydym yn pryderu y gallai droi’n gwango diangen. Y duedd yw i brosiectau adeiladu o statws uchel yng Nghymru fynd i drafferthion, fel y gŵyr y Cynulliad yn iawn. Os cyflawna’r comisiwn ei amcanion i hyrwyddo safonau dylunio a phensaernïaeth uchel yn y sector cyhoeddus a phreifat yng Nghymru, gan hyrwyddo dealltwriaeth ehangach o faterion dylunio a phwysigrwydd safonau da, a gwella’r amgylchedd adeiledig ar draws pob sector, yna awn i’r afael â’r gwaith o ddylunio ac adeiladu prosiectau proffil uchel yn y dyfodol mewn ffordd fwy sicr, hyderus a llwyddiannus. Efallai y gallai’r comisiwn dylunio chwarae rhan wrth archwilio’r cyllid a’r costau sy’n gysylltiedig â phrosiectau adeiladu mawr gan roi cyngor arbenigol ac annibynnol arnynt i’r Cynulliad.

However, the design commission must not only concentrate on prestigious design and big architectural projects. It should also play a role in shaping ordinary, everyday architecture. There is a need to raise standards and aspirations regarding architecture in Wales. You only have to look around Cardiff Bay, for instance, to see a proliferation of dull and ugly buildings. Just because people work in offices and factories should not mean that structures built for these purposes look mundane and uninspiring. Our concern about the design commission is that we hope that it does not end up as an unnecessary quango, a talking shop that costs Wales £100,000 a year. It must have a practical as well as a cultural and educational purpose.

Fodd bynnag, ni ddylai’r comisiwn dylunio ganolbwyntio ar ddylunio o statws uchel a phrosiectau pensaernïol mawr yn unig. Dylai hefyd chwarae rhan wrth lunio pensaernïaeth bob dydd, cyffredin. Mae angen codi safonau a dyheadau o ran pensaernïaeth yng Nghymru. Edrychwch ar Fae Caerdydd, er enghraifft, ac fe welwch lu o adeiladau llwm a hyll. Ni ddylai’r ffaith bod pobl yn gweithio mewn swyddfeydd a ffatrïoedd olygu bod y strwythurau a adeiledir at y dibenion hynny yn edrych yn ddiflas a di-fflach. Gobeithiwn na fydd y comisiwn dylunio yn troi’n gwango diangen, yn siop siarad sy’n costio £100,000 y flwyddyn i Gymru. Rhaid sicrhau bod iddo ddiben ymarferol yn ogystal â diben diwylliannol ac addysgol.

Delyth Evans siaradwyd yn Gymraeg t. 108

Delyth Evans spoken in Welsh p. 108

Croesawaf argymhelliad y Gweinidog i sefydlu comisiwn dylunio yng Nghymru. Mae’n ddatblygiad cyffrous a blaengar mewn sector—y sector adeiladu—sydd â dylanwad arwyddocaol dros fywydau ac ansawdd bywydau pobl ledled Cymru. Mae safon cynllunio a dylunio mewn adeiladu yng Nghymru wedi gwella cryn dipyn dros y blynyddoedd diwethaf. Yn fy etholaeth i, mae Gardd Fotaneg Genedlaethol Cymru yn enghraifft wych o ddylunio mentrus ac effeithiol. Mae Parc Arfordir y Mileniwm yn esiampl wych arall. Gallwn sôn am nifer o enghreifftiau eraill o ddylunio llwyddiannus.

I welcome the Minister’s recommendation to establish a design commission in Wales. It is an exciting and innovative development in a sector—the construction sector—that has a significant influence over people’s lives and the quality of people’s lives throughout Wales. The standard of design in building in Wales has improved substantially over recent years. In my constituency, the National Botanic Garden of Wales is an excellent example of innovative and effective design. The Millennium Coastal Park is another excellent example. I could mention several other examples of successful design.

Mae gwaith da yn digwydd, felly, a rhaid inni gymeradwyo’r dylunwyr a’r penseiri sydd eisoes yn gweithio’n llwyddiannus yn y maes. Bydd y comisiwn dylunio yn gyfle i ymestyn y gwaith hwn ac i ddatblygu a hyrwyddo arferion da a syniadau newydd ar draws y sector adeiladu.

Good work is being done, therefore and we must commend the designers and architects who are already working successfully in the field. The design commission will be an opportunity to extend this work and to develop and promote good practice and new ideas across the construction sector.

Fodd bynnag, nid ydym yn sôn am adeiladau cyhoeddus yn unig, er eu bod yn hynod o bwysig i’n bywyd dinesig. Yr hyn sydd yn fwy pwysig i ansawdd bywyd pobl a chymunedau yw cyflwr eu tai. Yr ydym yn gyfarwydd yma yn y Cynulliad â’r ddadl ynglŷn ag effeithiau tai gwael ac amgylchedd wael ar iechyd a chyfleoedd pobl a phlant. Felly, mae codi safon tai yng Nghymru yn ganolog i’n hagenda o gynhwysiant cymdeithasol. Bydd y comisiwn dylunio yn gweithio i ddatblygu safonau newydd mewn adeiladu tai yn y sector cyhoeddus a, gobeithiaf, yn y sector preifat hefyd. Mae gwaith da yn digwydd, a bydd y comisiwn yn gallu gwneud yn siŵr y caiff y gwaith da hwn ei fabwysiadu ar draws y sector.

However, we are not only talking about public buildings, although they are extremely important to our civic life. What is more important to the quality of life of people and communities is the condition of their houses. We are familiar here in the Assembly with the argument about the effects of poor housing and poor environment on health and opportunities for people and children. Therefore, improving the quality of housing in Wales is central to our social inclusion agenda. The design commission will work to develop new standards in house building in the public sector and, I hope, in the private sector too. Good work is already being done, and the commission will be able to ensure that this good work is adopted across the sector.

Gall rôl hyfforddi’r comisiwn, drwy ddarparu hyfforddiant i’r awdurdodau lleol fod yn ddylanwad pwysig ar gyflwr, safon a chynaliadwyedd y sector tai cyhoeddus yn y dyfodol. Bydd rôl ymchwil y comisiwn hefyd yn allweddol o ran ystyried datblygiadau mewn gwledydd eraill, y defnydd o ynni cynaliadwy mewn tai ac adeiladau a gweithio â defnyddiau Cymreig, ac yn y blaen.

The commission’s training role, through providing training for local authorities can be an important influence on the condition, quality and sustainability of the public housing sector in future. The commission’s research role will also be crucial in terms of considering developments in other countries, the use of sustainable energy in houses and buildings and working with Welsh materials, and so forth.

Felly, croesawaf y datblygiad hwn, oherwydd fe allai gael dylanwad pellgyrhaeddol ar natur a safon yr amgylchedd adeiledig yng Nghymru. Cymeradwyaf y Gweinidog ar ei gweledigaeth.

Therefore, I welcome this development, because it could have a far-reaching influence on the nature and standard of the built environment in Wales. I commend the Minister on her vision.

Lorraine Barrett spoken in English p. 110

Lorraine Barrett siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 110

I have a short question for the Minister. You may think that it is a little facetious, but I think that it is important because it is about promoting our image. Do you believe that the design commission will be able to help us finally get a logo that is acceptable to everyone? At present, we have nothing to identify us as the National Assembly for Wales, not even on our headed paper. We cannot sell Assembly merchandise because we do not have a logo to place on the merchandise.

Mae gennyf gwestiwn byr i’r Gweinidog. Efallai y byddwch o’r farn ei fod braidd yn ffraeth, ond credaf ei fod yn bwysig gan ei fod yn ymwneud â hyrwyddo ein delwedd. A gredwch y bydd y comisiwn dylunio yn gallu ein helpu o’r diwedd i gael logo sy’n dderbyniol i bawb? Ar hyn o bryd, nid oes unrhyw hunaniaeth gennym fel Cynulliad Cenedlaethol Cymru, ddim hyd yn oed ar ein papur pennawd. Ni allwn werthu nwyddau’r Cynulliad gan nad oes gennym logo i’w roi ar y nwyddau.

Sue Essex The Minister for Environment spoken in English p. 110

Sue Essex Y Gweinidog dros yr Amgylchedd siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 110

Perhaps Lorraine should have a word with the colleague in the seat in front of her, Rosemary Butler, as she might know a person who can.

Efallai y dylai Lorraine gael gair gyda’i chyd-Aelod yn y sedd o’i blaen, Rosemary Butler, gan y bydd, o bosibl, yn adnabod rhywun addas.

I am grateful for Members’ points. I emphasise that the design commission would be a not-for-profit company. It is not a quango. That would be our last intention. It will not be a talking shop. The commission will have a programme of work that will be delivered.

Yr wyf yn ddiolchgar am bwyntiau’r Aelodau. Pwysleisiaf mai cwmni nad yw’n gwneud elw fyddai’r comisiwn dylunio. Nid cwango mohono. Dyna fyddai ein bwriad olaf. Ni fydd yn siop siarad. Bydd gan y comisiwn raglen waith a gaiff ei chyflawni.

Helen Mary mentioned the budget. The figure quoted is a starting point. As time goes on, that amount will probably need to be supplemented. However, I hope that the commission can obtain other funding or sponsorship to add to its budget.

Soniodd Helen Mary am y gyllideb. Man cychwyn yw’r ffigur a ddyfynnwyd. Gydag amser, fwy na thebyg y bydd angen ychwanegu at y swm hwnnw. Fodd bynnag, gobeithiaf y gall y comisiwn gael arian neu nawdd arall i ychwanegu at ei gyllideb.

I am grateful to Rosemary for her kind remarks. She made the word ‘design’ matter. Design is about much more than just buildings. The great historical movements in design were not just about buildings but about design as a whole. I was pleased that Rosemary mentioned the post-war period—which I can hardly remember, of course. The post-war period was a time of liberation and design underpinned many of its new ideas. The designers did not always get it right, but design was important in a cohesive, comprehensive way at that time.

Yr wyf yn ddiolchgar i Rosemary am ei sylwadau caredig. Rhoddodd bwysigrwydd i’r gair ‘dylunio’. Mae dylunio yn berthnasol i lawer mwy nag adeiladau. Yr oedd y symudiadau hanesyddol pwysig mewn dylunio yn ymwneud nid yn unig ag adeiladau ond â dylunio yn gyffredinol. Yr oeddwn yn falch o glywed Rosemary yn sôn am y cyfnod wedi’r rhyfel—prin yr wyf yn ei gofio, wrth gwrs. Yr oedd y cyfnod ar ôl y rhyfel yn adeg o ryddhad ac yr oedd dylunio yn sail i lawer o’i syniadau newydd. Nid oedd y dylunwyr yn llwyddo bob tro, ond yr oedd dylunio yn bwysig mewn ffordd gydlynus, gynhwysfawr bryd hynny.

Delyth’s point about celebrating Welsh designers is important. Good examples of design can be seen all around Wales. That is where best practice comes in. When I launched the Wales Branch of the Landscape Institute last week, I saw a superb display of top-quality schemes from across Wales. We must use our good experiences in Wales. On education and training, the point was made that we do not have a school of landscape architecture in Wales. That is also important.

Mae pwynt Delyth ynglŷn â dathlu dylunwyr o Gymru yn bwysig. Gwelir enghreifftiau da o ddylunio ymhob cwr o Gymru. Dyna lle y daw arfer gorau i’r amlwg. Wrth lansio cangen Cymru o’r Sefydliad Tirlun yr wythnos diwethaf, gwelais arddangosfa ardderchog o gynlluniau o’r radd flaenaf o bob rhan o Gymru. Rhaid inni ddefnyddio ein profiadau da yng Nghymru. O ran addysg a hyfforddiant, nodwyd nad oes ysgol pensaernïaeth tirlun gennym yng Nghymru. Mae hynny hefyd yn bwysig.

Eleanor mentioned Cardiff Bay and its dull, ugly buildings. I cannot think what buildings she was thinking of—far be it from me to comment, as I sat on the planning committee that spent six months dealing with this matter.

Soniodd Eleanor am Fae Caerdydd a’i adeiladau diflas, hyll. Ni allaf feddwl am ba adeiladau yr oedd ganddi mewn golwg—ni ddylwn wneud unrhyw sylwadau, gan y bûm yn eistedd ar y pwyllgor cynllunio a dreuliodd chwe mis yn delio â’r mater hwn.

The most important point is making good design that is available to everyone. Good design must reach the parts of our community that, traditionally, it has not reached. I have seen many schemes in Wales where poor quality designers were chosen because the work needed to be done. I hope that we will never have to do that. Having visited various communities, some of them isolated, it is clear that improving design is probably the best thing that we can do. That must be a priority. I am not saying that prestigious schemes are not important. However, they get the attention. Designers often ignore communities, housing estates and smaller developments in areas that we do not often frequent. That must be included in the memorandum of association as must the point about sustainable development that Delyth raised. The establishment of the design commission could help to make Wales a showcase of sustainable development in design.

Y pwynt pwysicaf yw dylunio da, sydd ar gael i bawb. Rhaid i ddylunio da gyrraedd y rhannau o’n cymuned nas cyrhaeddwyd yn draddodiadol. Gwelais sawl cynllun yng Nghymru lle y dewiswyd dylunwyr gwael gan fod angen i’r gwaith gael ei wneud. Gobeithiaf na wnawn hynny fyth. Ar ôl ymweld ag amryw gymunedau, rhai ohonynt yn anghysbell, mae’n amlwg mai gwella gwaith dylunio, fwy na thebyg, yw’r peth gorau y gallwn ei wneud. Rhaid i hynny fod yn flaenoriaeth. Nid wyf yn dweud nad yw cynlluniau statws uchel yn bwysig. Fodd bynnag, maent yn cael y sylw. Mae dylunwyr yn aml yn anwybyddu cymunedau, ystadau tai a datblygiadau llai mewn ardaloedd nad awn iddynt yn aml. Rhaid i hynny gael ei gynnwys yn y memorandwm sefydlu. Felly hefyd y pwynt ynghylch datblygu cynaliadwy a godwyd gan Delyth. Gallai sefydlu’r comisiwn dylunio helpu gwneud Cymru yn lwyfan i ddatblygu cynaliadwy ym maes dylunio.

There will be a presentation, David, as I have said in the Environment, Planning and Transport Committee. I apologise that that slipped through the net. I hope that Members recognise that I work inclusively. The presentation will be for all Members, not just the Committee members.

Bydd cyflwyniad, David, fel y dywedais ym Mhwyllgor yr Amgylchedd, Cynllunio a Thrafnidiaeth. Ymddiheuraf i hynny syrthio drwy’r rhwyd. Gobeithiaf fod yr Aelodau yn cydnabod fy mod yn gweithio yn gynhwysol. Bydd y cyflwyniad i bob Aelod, nid aelodau’r Pwyllgor yn unig.

David Davies spoken in English p. 111

David Davies siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 111

I propose a procedural motion, that

Cynigiaf gynnig trefniadol, sef bod

the National Assembly, under Standing Order No. 6.16, refers this matter back to Committee.

y Cynulliad Cenedlaethol, dan Reol Sefydlog Rhif 6.16, yn cyfeirio’r mater hwn yn ôl i’r Pwyllgor.

As I have already spoken at length on this, I will not repeat my reasons for proposing this motion.

Gan fy mod eisoes wedi siarad yn faith ar y pwnc, nid ailadroddaf fy rhesymau dros gynnig y cynnig hwn.

John Marek The Deputy Presiding Officer spoken in English p. 112

John Marek Y Dirprwy Lywydd siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 112

Under Standing Order No. 6.15, I invite you to speak to the request briefly. I will then invite another Member to speak against it briefly.

O dan Reol Sefydlog Rhif 6.15, fe’ch gwahoddaf i sôn yn gryno am y cais. Wedyn gwahoddaf Aelod arall i siarad yn gryno yn ei erbyn.

David Davies spoken in English p. 112

David Davies siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 112

As I have already given my reasons, in the interest of time, I am happy to just propose the motion.

Gan fy mod eisoes wedi rhoi fy rhesymau, i arbed amser, yr wyf yn fodlon cynnig y cynnig heb ymhelaethu.

Helen Mary Jones spoken in English p. 112

Helen Mary Jones siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 112

Plaid Cymru—The Party of Wales feels that this would cause an unnecessary delay in establishing the commission. The Minister gave us her assurance yesterday that we would be fully informed of developments. The substantive motion delegates the functions to the Executive in order to move this forward. We have waited long enough for good design in Wales.

Mae Plaid Cymru—The Party of Wales o’r farn y byddai hyn yn achosi oedi diangen wrth sefydlu’r comisiwn. Rhoddodd y Gweinidog ei sicrwydd inni ddoe y byddem yn cael ein hysbysu’n llawn am ddatblygiadau. Mae’r cynnig gwreiddiol yn dirprwyo’r swyddogaethau i’r Weithrediaeth er mwyn symud ymlaen. Yr ydym wedi aros yn ddigon hir am ddylunio da yng Nghymru.

John Marek The Deputy Presiding Officer spoken in English p. 112

John Marek Y Dirprwy Lywydd siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 112

We will now vote on the procedural motion by David Davies that these matters be referred to Committee. If this motion is passed, we will not vote on the amendments and the motion proposed today.

Pleidleisiwn yn awr ar y cynnig trefniadol gan David Davies y dylid cyfeirio’r materion hyn i’r Pwyllgor. Os derbynnir y cynnig hwn, ni phleidleisiwn ar y gwelliannau a’r cynnig a gynigiwyd heddiw.

GwrthodwydRejected O blaidFor 8 YmatalAbstain 0 Yn erbynAgainst 39

Gwrthodwyd y cynnig.

Motion defeated.

Sut y pleidleisiodd yr AelodauHow Members voted
O blaidFor (8)
  • Nick Bourne
  • Alun Cairns
  • David Davies
  • Glyn Davies
  • William Graham
  • David Melding
  • Jonathan Morgan
  • Peter Rogers
Yn erbynAgainst (39)
  • Lorraine Barrett
  • Mick Bates
  • Peter Black
  • Eleanor Burnham
  • Rosemary Butler
  • Christine Chapman
  • Jane Davidson
  • Andrew Davies
  • Geraint Davies
  • Janet Davies
  • Jocelyn Davies
  • Richard Edwards
  • Sue Essex
  • Delyth Evans
  • Michael German
  • Brian Gibbons
  • Janice Gregory
  • John Griffiths
  • Christine Gwyther
  • Brian Hancock
  • Jane Hutt
  • Pauline Jarman
  • Ann Jones
  • Elin Jones
  • Helen Mary Jones
  • Ieuan Wyn Jones
  • David Lloyd
  • Val Lloyd
  • Peter Law
  • Huw Lewis
  • Tom Middlehurst
  • Rhodri Morgan
  • Lynne Neagle
  • Alun Pugh
  • Janet Ryder
  • Karen Sinclair
  • Gwenda Thomas
  • Owen John Thomas
  • Rhodri Glyn Thomas

John Marek The Deputy Presiding Officer spoken in English p. 113

John Marek Y Dirprwy Lywydd siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 113

We will therefore now vote on the amendments and the motion.

Pleidleisiwn yn awr felly ar y gwelliannau a’r cynnig.

Gwelliant 1 Helen Mary Jones t. 113

Amendment 1 Helen Mary Jones p. 113

DerbyniwydAdopted O blaidFor 48 YmatalAbstain 0 Yn erbynAgainst 0

Derbyniwyd y gwelliant.

Amendment carried.

Sut y pleidleisiodd yr AelodauHow Members voted
O blaidFor (48)
  • Lorraine Barrett
  • Mick Bates
  • Peter Black
  • Nick Bourne
  • Eleanor Burnham
  • Rosemary Butler
  • Alun Cairns
  • Christine Chapman
  • Jane Davidson
  • Andrew Davies
  • David Davies
  • Geraint Davies
  • Glyn Davies
  • Janet Davies
  • Jocelyn Davies
  • Richard Edwards
  • Sue Essex
  • Delyth Evans
  • Michael German
  • Brian Gibbons
  • William Graham
  • Janice Gregory
  • John Griffiths
  • Christine Gwyther
  • Brian Hancock
  • Jane Hutt
  • Pauline Jarman
  • Ann Jones
  • Elin Jones
  • Helen Mary Jones
  • Ieuan Wyn Jones
  • Peter Law
  • Huw Lewis
  • David Lloyd
  • Val Lloyd
  • David Melding
  • Tom Middlehurst
  • Jonathan Morgan
  • Rhodri Morgan
  • Lynne Neagle
  • Alun Pugh
  • Peter Rogers
  • Janet Ryder
  • Karen Sinclair
  • Gwenda Thomas
  • Owen John Thomas
  • Rhodri Glyn Thomas
  • Phil Williams

Tynnwyd gwelliannau 2, 3 a 4 yn ôl.

Amendments 2, 3 and 4 withdrawn.

Gwelliant 5 Helen Mary Jones t. 114

Amendment 5 Helen Mary Jones p. 114

DerbyniwydAdopted O blaidFor 49 YmatalAbstain 0 Yn erbynAgainst 0

Derbyniwyd y gwelliant.

Amendment carried.

Sut y pleidleisiodd yr AelodauHow Members voted
O blaidFor (49)
  • Lorraine Barrett
  • Mick Bates
  • Peter Black
  • Nick Bourne
  • Eleanor Burnham
  • Rosemary Butler
  • Alun Cairns
  • Christine Chapman
  • Jane Davidson
  • Andrew Davies
  • David Davies
  • Geraint Davies
  • Glyn Davies
  • Janet Davies
  • Jocelyn Davies
  • Ron Davies
  • Richard Edwards
  • Sue Essex
  • Delyth Evans
  • Michael German
  • Brian Gibbons
  • William Graham
  • Janice Gregory
  • John Griffiths
  • Christine Gwyther
  • Brian Hancock
  • Jane Hutt
  • Pauline Jarman
  • Ann Jones
  • Elin Jones
  • Helen Mary Jones
  • Ieuan Wyn Jones
  • Peter Law
  • Huw Lewis
  • David Lloyd
  • Val Lloyd
  • David Melding
  • Tom Middlehurst
  • Jonathan Morgan
  • Rhodri Morgan
  • Lynne Neagle
  • Alun Pugh
  • Peter Rogers
  • Janet Ryder
  • Karen Sinclair
  • Gwenda Thomas
  • Owen John Thomas
  • Rhodri Glyn Thomas
  • Phil Williams

Gwelliant 6 Helen Mary Jones t. 115

Amendment 6 Helen Mary Jones p. 115

DerbyniwydAdopted O blaidFor 49 YmatalAbstain 0 Yn erbynAgainst 0

Derbyniwyd y gwelliant.

Amendment carried.

Sut y pleidleisiodd yr AelodauHow Members voted
O blaidFor (49)
  • Lorraine Barrett
  • Mick Bates
  • Peter Black
  • Nick Bourne
  • Eleanor Burnham
  • Rosemary Butler
  • Alun Cairns
  • Christine Chapman
  • Jane Davidson
  • Andrew Davies
  • David Davies
  • Geraint Davies
  • Glyn Davies
  • Janet Davies
  • Jocelyn Davies
  • Ron Davies
  • Richard Edwards
  • Sue Essex
  • Delyth Evans
  • Michael German
  • Brian Gibbons
  • William Graham
  • Janice Gregory
  • John Griffiths
  • Christine Gwyther
  • Brian Hancock
  • Jane Hutt
  • Pauline Jarman
  • Ann Jones
  • Elin Jones
  • Helen Mary Jones
  • Ieuan Wyn Jones
  • Peter Law
  • Huw Lewis
  • David Lloyd
  • Val Lloyd
  • David Melding
  • Tom Middlehurst
  • Jonathan Morgan
  • Rhodri Morgan
  • Lynne Neagle
  • Alun Pugh
  • Peter Rogers
  • Janet Ryder
  • Karen Sinclair
  • Gwenda Thomas
  • Owen John Thomas
  • Rhodri Glyn Thomas
  • Phil Williams

DerbyniwydAdopted O blaidFor 49 YmatalAbstain 0 Yn erbynAgainst 0

Derbyniwyd y cynnig.

Motion carried.

Sut y pleidleisiodd yr AelodauHow Members voted
O blaidFor (49)
  • Lorraine Barrett
  • Mick Bates
  • Peter Black
  • Nick Bourne
  • Eleanor Burnham
  • Rosemary Butler
  • Alun Cairns
  • Christine Chapman
  • Jane Davidson
  • Andrew Davies
  • David Davies
  • Geraint Davies
  • Glyn Davies
  • Janet Davies
  • Jocelyn Davies
  • Ron Davies
  • Richard Edwards
  • Sue Essex
  • Delyth Evans
  • Michael German
  • Brian Gibbons
  • William Graham
  • Janice Gregory
  • John Griffiths
  • Christine Gwyther
  • Brian Hancock
  • Jane Hutt
  • Pauline Jarman
  • Ann Jones
  • Elin Jones
  • Helen Mary Jones
  • Ieuan Wyn Jones
  • Peter Law
  • Huw Lewis
  • David Lloyd
  • Val Lloyd
  • David Melding
  • Tom Middlehurst
  • Jonathan Morgan
  • Rhodri Morgan
  • Lynne Neagle
  • Alun Pugh
  • Peter Rogers
  • Janet Ryder
  • Karen Sinclair
  • Gwenda Thomas
  • Owen John Thomas
  • Rhodri Glyn Thomas
  • Phil Williams

Dadl Fer

Short Debate

Yr NHS yng Nghymru—Pam yr Holl Aros?

The NHS in Wales—Why Are We Waiting?

Pauline Jarman spoken in English p. 118

Pauline Jarman siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 118

I have agreed that David Melding and Peter Black may have a minute each of my time in which to speak.

Yr wyf wedi cytuno y gall David Melding a Peter Black gael munud yr un o’m hamser i siarad.

I begin my declaring an interest as a member of Rhondda Cynon Taff County Borough Council and a patient of North Glamorgan NHS Trust. I had an outpatient appointment 8 November 2001 but last Monday I received a letter cancelling that appointment and rescheduling it for 16 weeks later, 28 February 2002. There are many similar cases. What on earth is wrong? All we read about is shortages of beds, nursing staff, doctors and specialists.

Dechreuaf drwy ddatgan buddiant fel aelod o Gyngor Bwrdeistref Sirol Rhondda Cynon Taf ac un o gleifion Ymddiriedolaeth GIG Gogledd Morgannwg. Cefais apwyntiad claf allanol ar 8 Tachwedd 2001 ond ddydd Llun diwethaf, cefais lythyr yn canslo’r apwyntiad hwnnw, a’i ad-drefnu 16 wythnos yn ddiweddarach, ar 28 Chwefror 2002. Mae llawer o achosion tebyg. Beth ar y ddaear sydd o’i le? Yr unig beth y darllenwn amdano yw prinder gwelyau, staff nyrsio, meddygon ac arbenigwyr.

I take this opportunity to pay tribute to our doctors, nurses and other hospital staff for their dedicated work in difficult circumstances. In Wales today, there are over 203,000 people waiting for their first hospital appointment. Over 56,000 of those have been waiting more than six months. We are crossing our fingers and hoping that there will not be a flu epidemic this winter.

Manteisiaf ar y cyfle hwn i dalu deyrnged i’n meddygon, ein nyrsys ac aelodau eraill o staff ein hysbytai am eu gwaith ymroddedig o dan amgylchiadau anodd. Yng Nghymru heddiw, mae mwy na 203,000 o bobl yn aros am eu hapwyntiad cyntaf yn yr ysbyty. Bu mwy na 56,000 o’r rheini yn aros am fwy na chwe mis. Yr ydym yn croesi ein bysedd gan obeithio na fydd epidemig o’r ffliw yn ystod y gaeaf hwn.

Nearly every NHS trust can tell the same story of huge waiting lists and little chance of reducing them. According to the National Assembly’s own statistics, there has been an underspend of £54 million in the health and social services budget for Wales this year. However, the number of patients who have waited for more than six months for outpatient appointments has risen by more than 800 per cent in four years, from 6,000 to more than 56,000. We heard the disgraceful story last week of a farmer from Hay-on-Wye who was diagnosed with skin cancer on his right ear 16 months ago, and who is still waiting for surgery even though the cancer is only millimetres from his brain. The hospital spokesperson stated that his surgery could still be cancelled if someone with a greater clinical need is admitted. What a sorry state of affairs.

Mae bron pob ymddiriedolaeth GIG yn yr un sefyllfa gyda rhestrau aros hir iawn a dim llawer o obaith o’u lleihau. Yn ôl ystadegau’r Cynulliad Cenedlaethol ei hun, bu tanwariant o £54 miliwn yng nghyllideb iechyd a gwasanaethau cymdeithasol Cymru eleni. Fodd bynnag, mae nifer y cleifion sydd wedi aros am fwy na chwe mis i gael apwyntiadau cleifion allanol wedi codi mwy na 800 y cant mewn pedair blynedd, o 6,000 i fwy na 56,000. Yr wythnos diwethaf clywsom yr hanes cywilyddus am ffermwr o’r Gelli y canfuwyd bod arno ganser y croen ar ei glust dde 16 mis yn ôl, ond sy’n dal i aros am lawdriniaeth er bod y canser erbyn hyn filimedrau yn unig i ffwrdd o’i ymennydd. Nododd llefarydd yr ysbyty y gallai ei lawdriniaeth gael ei chanslo o hyd pe bai rhywun ag angen clinigol mwy yn cael ei dderbyn i’r ysbyty. Dyna sefyllfa druenus.

Wales suffers a double whammy. We have the worst health record and the least capacity to treat illness. Getting more nurses, doctors and beds should be the priority, but what we get is more task groups, frameworks and private finance initiatives. We need leadership, vision and the ability to take hard, strategic decisions. We need action and delivery from the New Labour/Liberal Democrat Government in Wales, not waffle. In 2003, the people of Wales will have the chance to put the needs of the people of Wales first. A health service run by Plaid Cymru—The Party of Wales would right the wrongs that have been perpetuated by this Government, as we have done in Rhondda Cynon Taff. We need to attack the causes of ill-health. We need to re-affirm our belief in a health service that is free at the point of use, publicly funded and rejects market forces as its motivating factor. I call for a public debate on these issues.

Mae Cymru yn dioddef dwy ergyd. Mae gennym y record gwaethaf o ran iechyd a’r gallu lleiaf i drin salwch. Dylai cael mwy o nyrsys, meddygon a gwelyau fod yn flaenoriaeth, ond yr hyn a gawn yw mwy o grwpiau gorchwyl, fframweithiau a mentrau cyllid preifat. Mae arnom angen arweinyddiaeth a gweledigaeth a’r gallu i ddod i benderfyniadau anodd, strategol. Mae angen i’r Llywodraeth Llafur Newydd/Democratiaid Rhyddfrydol yng Nghymru weithredu a chyflawni, yn hytrach na malu awyr. Yn 2003, caiff pobl Cymru y cyfle i roi anghenion pobl Cymru’n gyntaf. Byddai gwasanaeth iechyd a gaiff ei redeg gan Blaid Cymru—The Party of Wales yn unioni’r cam a barhawyd gan y Llywodraeth hon, fel y gwnaethom yn Rhondda Cynon Taf. Mae angen inni ymosod ar achosion afiechyd. Mae angen inni ailddatgan ein cred mewn gwasanaeth iechyd sydd yn rhad ac am ddim i’w ddefnyddwyr, a ariennir yn gyhoeddus ac sy’n gwrthod grymoedd y farchnad fel ffactor sy’n ei ysgogi. Galwaf am ddadl gyhoeddus ar y materion hyn.

Every day we read headlines such as, ‘Leading GP slams services’, ‘No end to bed chaos’, ‘Hospitals pray the flu will stay away’, ‘GP speaks out for dying patient’ and ‘30-hour wait for treatment’. The last headline refers to how an 88-year-old, frail, elderly lady was left waiting for treatment for 30 hours on a hospital trolley in a Cardiff hospital, after she had collapsed at home. It is shameful that someone of her age and infirmity should be let down so badly by the system. However, the waiting game is not confined to the elderly. I have represented the case of a young man who sustained a serious leg injury. He needs urgent physiotherapy as he wants to return to work, but he must wait 13 weeks for his first appointment. I also know of a terminally ill person who is waiting for a bed in a palliative care ward because her family find it heartbreaking to watch her suffer day by day. Some people cannot cope with these situations, despite their love.

Bob dydd, darllenwn benawdau megis, ‘Meddyg blaenllaw yn beirniadu gwasanaethau’, ‘Dim diwedd i’r anhrefn o ran gwelyau’, ‘Ysbytai yn gweddïo na ddaw’r ffliw’, ‘Meddyg yn siarad ar ran claf sy’n marw’ a ‘Gorfod aros am 30 awr i gael triniaeth’. Mae’r pennawd olaf yn cyfeirio at fenyw oedrannus, wan, 88 mlwydd oed a arhosodd 30 awr am driniaeth ar droli mewn ysbyty yng Nghaerdydd, ar ôl iddi lewygu gartref. Mae’n warthus bod y system yn trin rhywun o’i hoedran a’i chyflwr gwan hi mor wael. Fodd bynnag, nid yw’r broblem aros yn gyfyngedig i’r henoed. Yr wyf wedi cynrychioli achos dyn ifanc a gafodd anaf difrifol i’w goes. Mae angen ffisiotherapi arno ar frys gan ei fod am ddychwelyd i’r gwaith, ond rhaid iddo aros 13 wythnos am ei apwyntiad cyntaf. Gwn hefyd am berson sydd â salwch angheuol sy’n aros am wely mewn ward gofal lleddfol gan fod ei theulu yn torri eu calonnau wrth ei gweld yn dioddef o ddydd i ddydd. Ni all rhai pobl ymdopi yn y sefyllfaoedd hyn, er gwaethaf eu cariad.

Medical practitioners will be familiar with Hippocrates’s words:

Bydd meddygon yn gyfarwydd â geiriau Hippocrates:

‘Healing is a matter of time, but is sometimes also a matter of opportunity’.

‘Mater o amser yw gwella, ond weithiau mae’n fater o gyfle hefyd.’

How true those words are today. However, the opportunities are decreasing. The Minister for Health and Social Services will know that I have been representing the case of a young family from Mountain Ash, David and Dianne Gordon and their four-year-old son, Jamie, for a long time. The Minister has shown interest in this case, which was welcomed by the family. I have their permission to cite this statement made by Dianne following their experience. She says:

Mae’r geiriau hynny mor wir heddiw. Fodd bynnag, mae’r cyfleoedd yn lleihau. Bydd y Gweinidog dros Iechyd a Gwasanaethau Cymdeithasol yn gwybod imi gynrychioli’r achos o deulu ifanc o Aberpennar, David a Diane Gordon a’u mab pedair blwydd oed, Jamie, ers peth amser. Mae’r Gweinidog wedi dangos diddordeb yn yr achos hwn, ac mae’r teulu wedi croesawu hynny. Mae gennyf ganiatâd i ddyfynnu’r datganiad hwn a wnaethpwyd gan Diane ar ôl eu profiad. Dywed:

‘Everything on the NHS is a waiting game.’

‘Gêm aros yw popeth yn yr NHS.’

Jamie is a little boy who has a rare form of muscular dystrophy. He cannot walk, he has delayed speech, he cannot eat properly and is waiting for a gastrostomy operation to assist with his feeding when he gets too tired to eat and when his face muscles malfunction. I understand that this operation takes about 30 to 40 minutes.

Mae Jamie yn fachgen ifanc sydd â math anghyffredin o ddystroffi’r cyhyrau. Ni all gerdded, mae atal ar ei leferydd, ni all fwyta’n iawn ac mae’n aros am lawdriniaeth gastrostomi i’w helpu i fwydo pan fydd yn rhy flinedig i fwyta a phan na fydd y cyhyrau yn ei wyneb yn gweithio’n iawn. Deallaf fod y llawdriniaeth hon yn cymryd tua 30 i 40 munud.

I have a letter here dated 4 October 2001 in which five consultants are identified as dealing with Jamie’s case. I do not intend to disclose their identities, and will merely refer to them as consultants. However, I will quote from part of the letter to illustrate the dilemma that consultants face in rationing their time.

Mae gennyf lythyr dyddiedig 4 Hydref 2001 yma lle y nodir bod pum meddyg ymgynghorol yn delio ag achos Jamie. Ni fwriadaf ddatgelu eu henwau, a byddaf yn cyfeirio atynt fel meddygon ymgynghorol yn unig. Fodd bynnag, dyfynnaf ran o’r llythyr i ddangos y penbleth a wynebir gan feddygon ymgynghorol wrth rannu eu hamser.

‘I am sorry that you believe that Jamie would receive a gastrostomy during his stay in June. Jamie was admitted for observation, a pH study and to be reviewed by a consultant. Unfortunately, due to other urgent clinical commitments, the consultant did not feel he could devote the time he needed to review Jamie on the ward at that time, and so would rather make a proper assessment. He felt that an outpatient appointment was appropriate. I apologise if you feel that the consultant gave the impression that he had more important things to do. I can assure you that he was trying to prioritise his time on the basis of clinical need and he did not want to compromise Jamie’s care by rushing his assessment.

‘Mae’n ddrwg gennyf eich bod yn credu y byddai Jamie wedi cael gastrostomi wrth aros yn yr ysbyty ym mis Mehefin. Daethpwyd â Jamie i mewn fel y gellid ei gadw dan wyliadwriaeth, gwneud astudiaeth pH arno ac i feddyg ymgynghorol adolygu ei achos. Yn anffodus, oherwydd ymrwymiadau clinigol brys eraill, ni theimlai’r meddyg ymgynghorol y gallai neilltuo’r amser angenrheidiol i adolygu ei achos yn y ward y pryd hynny, ac felly y byddai’n well ganddo wneud asesiad go iawn. Teimlai y byddai apwyntiad claf allanol yn briodol. Ymddiheuraf os teimlwch fod y meddyg ymgynghorol wedi rhoi’r argraff bod ganddo well pethau i’w gwneud. Gallaf eich sicrhau mai ceisio blaenoriaethu ei amser ar sail angen clinigol yr oedd, ac nid oedd am beryglu gofal Jamie drwy wneud asesiad ar frys.

I understand that you saw another consultant privately on 17 July 2001, and that he wrote to the original consultant to ask him to carry out this procedure. The original consultant did in fact place Jamie on the urgent waiting list and the reason he felt unable to give a definite date for the operation is that, because of emergency procedures, planned procedures are sometimes delayed and he did not want to mislead you regarding the date for admission for Jamie. I am sorry that this was not communicated adequately to you.’

Deallaf i chi weld meddyg ymgynghorol arall yn breifat ar 17 Gorffennaf 2001, ac iddo fe ysgrifennu at y meddyg ymgynghorol gwreiddiol i ofyn iddo wneud y llawdriniaeth. Yr oedd y meddyg ymgynghorol gwreiddiol wedi rhoi Jamie ar y rhestr aros frys a’r rheswm am iddo deimlo nad oedd modd ganddo roi dyddiad pendant ar gyfer y llawdriniaeth yw oherwydd bod llawdriniaethau a drefnwyd weithiau yn cael eu gohirio ac nad oedd am eich camarwain o ran y dyddiad pan ddeuai Jamie i’r ysbyty. Mae’n ddrwg gennyf nad oedd hynny wedi’i esbonio’n ddigonol wrthych.’

The family was so desperate that it went private and Jamie is going to Great Ormond Street Hospital shortly to have his operation. Jamie also needs to have 14 teeth extracted but his appointment has been cancelled three times. Hospital guidelines classed his case as non-urgent because he was not constantly crying in pain. However, the reason for that is because he has a high pain threshold, as would any child who has endured what he has endured. There is only so much crying that a child can do. Unlike most four-year-olds, he cannot speak either. You would not extract 14 teeth from a four-year-old child unless they were badly decayed and painful. On 10 August, Jamie was measured for a special wheelchair and eight weeks ago a request was made for a zimmer frame. He is still waiting for both.

Oherwydd y sefyllfa anobeithiol, penderfynodd y teulu gael triniaeth breifat ac mae Jamie yn mynd i Ysbyty Great Ormond Street cyn bo hir i gael ei lawdriniaeth. Mae angen i Jamie gael 14 o ddannedd wedi’u tynnu hefyd ond mae ei apwyntiad wedi’i ganslo deirgwaith. Nododd canllawiau ysbytai nad oedd ei achos yn achos brys gan nad oedd yn llefain drwy’r amser oherwydd poen. Fodd bynnag, y rheswm dros hynny yw bod ganddo drothwy poen uchel, fel y byddai gan unrhyw blentyn sydd wedi dioddef yr hyn y mae ef wedi’i ddioddef. Dim ond cymaint o lefain y gall plentyn ei wneud. Yn wahanol i’r rhan fwyaf o blant pedair blwydd oed, ni all siarad ychwaith. Ni fyddech yn tynnu 14 o ddannedd plentyn pedair blwydd oed oni bai eu bod wedi’u pydru’n wael ac yn boenus. Ar 10 Awst, cafodd Jamie ei fesur am gadair olwyn arbennig ac wyth wythnos yn ôl, gwnaethpwyd cais am ffrâm gerdded. Mae’n dal i aros amdanynt.

Why does the Minister still insist that money towards a new children’s hospital has to be provided, in part, through fundraising? It reminds me of the depression, when miners had to give their sixpence a week to build hospitals—money that they could ill afford to part with. This is the twenty-first century. The Government of Wales can afford to fund a children’s hospital. Does it enjoy seeing people stressfully burning energy in attempting to raise a pound here and there? Given the political will, Wales need not wait for this.

Pam mae’r Gweinidog yn parhau i fynnu bod angen darparu arian tuag at ysbyty plant newydd, yn rhannol, drwy godi arian? Mae’n f’atgoffa o’r dirwasgiad pan fu’n rhaid i lowyr roi chwe cheiniog yr wythnos i adeiladu ysbytai—arian na allent brin fforddio ei roi. Dyma’r unfed ganrif ar hugain. Gall Llywodraeth Cymru fforddio ariannu ysbyty plant. A yw’n mwynhau gweld pobl o dan bwysau yn ymdrechu’n galed i geisio codi punt yma ac acw? Gyda’r ewyllys wleidyddol, nid oes angen i Gymru aros am hyn.

I finish with two political quotations that have stuck in my mind. On the eve of the 1983 general election, Neil Kinnock said, based on the Conservative Government’s record and in the event of that Government being re-elected:

Gorffennaf gyda dau ddyfyniad gwleidyddol sydd wedi aros yn fy nghof. Ar y noson cyn etholiad cyffredinol 1983, dywedodd Neil Kinnock, yn seiliedig ar yr hyn yr oedd y Llywodraeth Geidwadol wedi’i wneud, pe câi’r Llywodraeth honno ei hailethol:

‘I warn you not to be ordinary. I warn you not be young. I warn you not to fall ill and I warn you not to grow old’.

‘Fe’ch rhybuddiaf rhag bod yn gyffredin. Fe’ch rhybuddiaf rhag bod yn ifanc. Fe’ch rhybuddiaf rhag clafychu ac fe’ch rhybuddiaf rhag heneiddio.’

My other quotation is from Hubert Humphrey, the American senator and vice president to Lyndon Johnson:

Daw fy nyfyniad arall gan Hubert Humphrey, y seneddwr Americanaidd ac is-arlywydd Lyndon Johnson:

‘The moral test of government is how it treats those who are in the dawn of life, the children, those who are in the twilight of life, the aged, and those who are in the shadows of life, the sick, the needy and the handicapped.’

‘Prawf moesol llywodraeth yw ei ffordd o drin y sawl sydd yng nglesni bywyd, y plant, y sawl sydd yng nghyfnos bywyd, yr henoed, a’r sawl sydd yng nghysgod bywyd, y bobl glaf, anghenus ac anabl.’

Today, Neil Kinnock could just as easily be talking about the Labour/Liberal Democrat administration in the Assembly. It has some way to go to pass the moral test of government.

Heddiw, gallai Neil Kinnock fod yn siarad am weinyddiaeth Llafur/Democratiaid Rhyddfrydol y Cynulliad. Mae cryn dipyn i’w wneud cyn iddi basio prawf moesol llywodraeth.

David Melding spoken in English p. 122

David Melding siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 122

I thank Pauline for a lucid argument that was stated in strong, emotional terms. That is sometimes appropriate because we can demean these cases by only considering them as statistics. We should remember that they are all human, poignant stories. Long waiting lists and long waiting times undermine NHS staff morale and patients’ confidence in the national health service. That can only continue for so long before the health service begins to fracture and people leave the service to make their own provision, if they can afford it. That would be divisive and dangerous. I particularly welcome what Pauline said about the need for a national debate—stripped of partisan point scoring—where we put before the people of Britain the choice of a modern, European health service. All parties must face some stark facts, if we are to conduct that debate honestly.

Diolchaf i Pauline am ddadl eglur a fynegwyd mewn geiriau cryf, emosiynol. Mae hynny’n briodol ar adegau oherwydd gallwn ddiraddio’r achosion hyn drwy eu hystyried yn ystadegau yn unig. Dylem gofio fod pob un ohonynt yn hanesion ingol am bobl. Mae rhestrau aros hir ac amseroedd aros hir yn tanseilio morâl staff yr NHS a hyder cleifion yn y gwasanaeth iechyd gwladol. Dim ond am rywfaint o amser y gall hynny barhau cyn i’r gwasanaeth iechyd ddechrau chwalu a chyn i bobl adael y gwasanaeth i wneud eu darpariaeth eu hunain, os gallant ei fforddio. Byddai hynny’n peri rhwyg a byddai’n beryglus. Croesawaf yn arbennig yr hyn a ddywedodd Pauline am yr angen am ddadl genedlaethol—heb geisio sgorio pwyntiau pleidiol—lle yr ydym yn cynnig gwasanaeth iechyd Ewropeaidd modern i bobl Prydain. Rhaid i bob plaid wynebu rhai ffeithiau moel, os ydym am gynnal y ddadl honno mewn ffordd onest.

Peter Black spoken in English p. 123

Peter Black siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 123

This is my first appearance as acting spokesperson on health for the Liberal Democrats, a position that I am assuming while Kirsty Williams recovers from her experiences as a client of the national health service.

Dyma fy araith gyntaf fel llefarydd gweithredol y Democratiaid Rhyddfrydol dros iechyd. Yr wyf yn ymgymryd â’r rôl tra bod Kirsty Williams yn gwella ar ôl ei phrofiadau fel client y gwasanaeth iechyd gwladol.

From my experiences of talking with doctors and nurses in my constituency, visits to hospitals and my case workload, I assume that all Members have encountered similar examples to those that Pauline outlined. We have all met people who have had problems getting operations, or had operations cancelled. My in-laws also have had experience of that. There is a problem that must be overcome. This is also a question of the national health service’s capacity to cope, not just in terms of doctors and nurses, but also in terms of the size of hospitals and the equipment available to them.

O’m profiadau o siarad â meddygon a nyrsys yn fy etholaeth, ymweliadau ag ysbytai a’m baich gwaith achosion, tybiaf fod pob un o’r Aelodau wedi wynebu enghreifftiau tebyg i’r rhai a amlinellwyd gan Pauline. Mae pob un ohonom wedi cwrdd â phobl sydd wedi cael problemau wrth gael llawdriniaeth, neu y mae eu llawdriniaeth wedi’i chanslo. Mae fy nheulu yng nghyfraith wedi cael profiad o hynny hefyd. Mae problem y mae’n rhaid ei goresgyn. Ceir hefyd y cwestiwn ynglŷn â chapasiti’r gwasanaeth iechyd gwladol i ymdopi, nid o ran meddygon a nyrsys yn unig, ond hefyd o ran maint ysbytai a’r offer sydd ar gael iddynt.

The National Assembly’s Government has tried to tackle that in the long term, by investing in new capital equipment and in new nurses and doctors. This problem cannot be turned around overnight. The National Assembly inherited a huge problem in the national health service’s structure, which we must begin to tackle. We are doing that now and I hope that we can continue to do so.

Mae Llywodraeth y Cynulliad Cenedlaethol wedi ceisio mynd i’r afael â hynny yn yr hirdymor, drwy fuddsoddi mewn offer cyfalaf newydd a nyrsys a meddygon newydd. Ni ellir datrys y broblem hon dros nos. Etifeddodd y Cynulliad Cenedlaethol broblem enfawr yn strwythur y gwasanaeth iechyd gwladol, y mae’n rhaid inni ddechrau mynd i’r afael â hi. Gwnawn hynny bellach a gobeithiaf y gallwn barhau i wneud hynny.

Jane Hutt The Minister for Health and Social Services spoken in English p. 123

Jane Hutt Y Gweinidog dros Iechyd a Gwasanaethau Cymdeithasol siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 123

Pauline, it is right and fair to ask the question, ‘why are we waiting?’ I also thank David and Peter for their contributions.

Pauline, mae’n briodol a theg gofyn y cwestiwn, ‘pam yr holl aros?’. Diolchaf i David a Peter am eu cyfraniadau hefyd.

Waiting time is an important indicator of the NHS’s health. I, as Minister, and the Assembly, must ensure that we have the resources, capacity and competencies to tackle this effectively, and ensure that people get the treatment that they deserve. Today’s budget for health and social services is good news, following last year’s good news from the comprehensive spending review. Today’s budget announces an extra £40.5 million for capital and £142.3 million over the next two years, which is about getting the resources. The Assembly will show its will in that area if it supports this budget.

Mae amser aros yn ddangosydd pwysig o iechyd yr NHS. Rhaid imi, fel y Gweinidog, a rhaid i’r Cynulliad, sicrhau bod gennym yr adnoddau, y capasiti a’r cymwysterau i fynd i’r afael â’r mater hwn yn effeithiol, gan sicrhau bod pobl yn cael y driniaeth y maent yn ei haeddu. Mae’r gyllideb ar gyfer iechyd a gwasanaethau cymdeithasol a gyhoeddwyd heddiw yn newyddion da, yn dilyn y newyddion da a gafwyd y llynedd o’r adolygiad cynhwysfawr o wariant. Mae’r gyllideb heddiw yn cyhoeddi £40.5 miliwn ychwanegol ar gyfer cyfalaf a £142.3 miliwn dros y ddwy flynedd nesaf, sy’n ymwneud â sicrhau bod yr adnoddau gennym. Drwy gefnogi’r gyllideb hon, bydd y Cynulliad yn mynegi ei ewyllys yn y maes hwnnw.

However, Pauline, let us consider the realities of NHS care. There are over 700,000 first outpatient appointments every year, and over a third of a million inpatient and daycase treatments. That is over a million in total, without counting those who use ambulances, are admitted as emergency patients, or attend accident and emergency departments. We have evidence that pressure is increasing on those services also. This level of pressure is reflected also in primary care and in the community. The NHS is a tough place to work and our staff do a brilliant job. Political attacks can undermine our staff and David is right that we must debate these issues together in the Assembly. Effective scrutiny and backing for action—backed with the necessary resources, planning and intervention—is crucial. As Peter said, the NHS is a precious asset, not a political football.

Fodd bynnag, Pauline, gadewch inni ystyried realiti gofal yr NHS. Mae mwy na 700,000 o apwyntiadau cleifion allanol cyntaf bob blwyddyn, a mwy na 300,000 o achosion o drin cleifion mewnol ac achosion dydd. Mae hynny’n gyfanswm o dros filiwn, heb gyfrif y rheini sy’n defnyddio ambiwlans, y rheini a dderbynnir i’r ysbyty fel cleifion brys, neu’r rheini sy’n mynychu adrannau damweiniau ac achosion brys. Mae tystiolaeth gennym fod y pwysau sydd ar y gwasanaethau hynny ar gynnydd hefyd. Ceir yr un lefel o bwysau hefyd mewn gofal sylfaenol ac yn y gymuned. Mae’r NHS yn lle caled i weithio ac mae ein staff yn gwneud gwaith ardderchog. Gall ymosodiadau gwleidyddol danseilio ein staff ac mae David yn gywir wrth ddweud bod yn rhaid inni gael dadl ar y materion hyn gyda’n gilydd yn y Cynulliad. Mae’n hanfodol goruchwylio a chefnogi ein gweithredoedd yn effeithiol—wedi’i ategu gan yr adnoddau, y gwaith cynllunio a’r ymyriadau angenrheidiol. Fel y dywedodd Peter, mae’r NHS yn ased gwerthfawr, nid pêl-droed wleidyddol.

The latest figures, published on 28 September, show that the NHS in Wales in the last three years has been working harder and seen more patients. We must recognise that past decisions have not helped, and that previous Conservative Governments cut back the capital programme and central funding. They abolished workforce planning. They reduced bed numbers for 16 consecutive years, and the numbers of nurses and midwives were reduced every year from 1992. We are rebuilding and renewing our NHS. We are ensuring that every health trust has a plan for tackling the increase in outpatients’ waiting, which must be done. We have an innovations in care team, and are ensuring that the National Assembly has a strategic planning role, getting resources to the patients and ensuring that the people who are at the sharp end, delivering and organising care, get our support. We must ensure that we deliver that. It is about increased activity and pressure.

Dengys y ffigurau diweddaraf, a gyhoeddwyd ar 28 Medi, fod yr NHS yng Nghymru wedi gweithio’n galetach ac wedi gweld mwy o gleifion yn ystod y tair blynedd diwethaf. Rhaid inni gydnabod nad yw penderfyniadau a wnaethpwyd yn y gorffennol wedi helpu, ac i Lywodraethau Ceidwadol blaenorol leihau’r rhaglen gyfalaf ac arian canolog. Rhoesant y gorau i’r gwaith o gynllunio’r gweithlu. Gwnaethant leihau nifer y gwelyau am 16 mlynedd yn ddilynol, a lleihawyd nifer y nyrsys a bydwragedd bob blwyddyn o 1992 ymlaen. Yr ydym yn ailadeiladu ac yn adnewyddu ein NHS. Yr ydym yn sicrhau bod gan bob ymddiriedolaeth iechyd gynllun i fynd i’r afael â’r cynnydd mewn amseroedd aros i gleifion allanol, ac mae’n rhaid ei wneud. Mae gennym dîm dulliau arloesi ym maes gofal, ac yr ydym yn sicrhau bod gan y Cynulliad Cenedlaethol rôl gynllunio strategol, bod adnoddau yn cyrraedd y cleifion a bod y bobl sy’n ymwneud â’r gwaith o gyflwyno a threfnu gofal yn cael ein cymorth. Rhaid inni sicrhau ein bod yn darparu hynny. Mae a wnelo â mwy o weithgarwch a phwysau.

It is also, Pauline, about your role in local government to help keep people well: housing has a key part to play. I launched the Keep Well This Winter campaign, and the flu immunisation campaign will be of key importance. We must ensure that people are kept well and warm. We must also ensure support for our social services, which comes through the budget—

Mae a wnelo hefyd, Pauline, â’ch rôl mewn llywodraeth leol i helpu i gadw pobl yn iach: mae gan dai ran allweddol i’w chwarae. Lansiais yr ymgyrch Cadw’n Iach y Gaeaf Hwn, a bydd yr ymgyrch brechu rhag y ffliw, o bwys mawr. Rhaid inni sicrhau bod pobl yn iach ac yn dwym. Rhaid inni sicrhau hefyd ein bod yn rhoi cymorth i’n gwasanaethau cymdeithasol, a ddaw drwy’r gyllideb—

Christine Chapman spoken in English p. 125

Christine Chapman siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 125

I think that we would all acknowledge what Pauline says. Members of all parties are impatient for change in the national health service. Will you confirm that this UK Labour Government and this Labour/Liberal Democrat partnership Government in Wales have done more for the health service than any previous government? Will you also confirm that it is not simply a matter of warm words, as Plaid Cymru is keen to advocate, but about acting to tackle inequalities in our constituencies?

Credaf y byddai pob un ohonom yn cydnabod yr hyn a ddywed Pauline. Mae Aelodau o bob un o’r pleidiau yn awyddus i weld newidiadau i’r gwasanaeth iechyd gwladol. A gadarnhewch fod y Llywodraeth Lafur DU hon a’r bartneriaeth Llafur/Democratiaid Rhyddfrydol hon wedi gwneud mwy nag unrhyw lywodraeth flaenorol i’r gwasanaeth iechyd? A gadarnhewch hefyd nad mater o eiriau caredig yn unig yw hyn, fel y mae Plaid Cymru yn honni, ond mater o fynd i’r afael ag anghydraddoldebau yn ein hetholaethau?

Jane Hutt spoken in English p. 125

Jane Hutt siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 125

The strategy is about delivering an additional £1 billion, which we secured in 2000, into the health service. Today, we have an extra boost. It is also about tackling the health inequalities in Wales, and ensuring that we provide money for communities such as the Cynon valley, Merthyr Tydfil, Blaenau Gwent and the most disadvantaged communities in Wales.

Mae’r strategaeth yn ymwneud ag £1 biliwn ychwanegol, a sicrhawyd gennym yn 2000, ar gyfer y gwasanaeth iechyd, Heddiw, cawn hwb ychwanegol. Mae hefyd yn ymwneud â mynd i’r afael ag anghydraddoldebau iechyd yng Nghymru, a sicrhau ein bod yn rhoi arian i gymunedau megis Cwm Cynon, Merthyr Tudful, Blaenau Gwent a’r cymunedau yng Nghymru sydd o dan yr anfantais fwyaf.

You wrote your speech before today’s good news. Rhondda and Porthmadog hospitals will receive public capital funding. We will rebuild our capital programme, and increase nurses’ and doctors’ training. We will also have our workforce targets in place for the spring. In the next four years, we will double our nurse, midwife, health visitor and medical students’ training numbers. We are delivering on our promises. We are also delivering on a new structure for the health service, which will ensure that the money reaches the people.

Gwnaethoch ysgrifennu eich araith cyn y newyddion da a gyhoeddwyd heddiw. Caiff ysbytai y Rhondda a Phorthmadog arian cyfalaf cyhoeddus. Byddwn yn ailadeiladu/ ailddatblygu ein rhaglen gyfalaf, gan gynyddu’r hyfforddiant i nyrsys a meddygon. Byddwn hefyd wedi gosod ein targedau gweithlu erbyn y gwanwyn. Yn y pedair blynedd nesaf, byddwn yn dyblu nifer y nyrsys, bydwragedd, ymwelwyr iechyd a myfyrwyr meddygaeth sydd o dan hyfforddiant. Yr ydym yn cyflawni ein haddewidion. Yr ydym hefyd yn cyflwyno strwythur newydd ar gyfer y gwasanaeth iechyd, a fydd yn sicrhau bod yr arian yn cyrraedd y bobl.

The Assembly must recognise that health is a precious asset. We will work together to ensure that health and social services are the biggest winners in this budget. We will also ensure that we deliver the resources and the patient care to the people who most need it in our communities. That will provide the advantages that we need to see.

Rhaid i’r Cynulliad gydnabod hefyd fod iechyd yn ased gwerthfawr. Byddwn yn cydweithio i sicrhau mai iechyd a gwasanaethau cymdeithasol sy’n elwa fwyaf yn y gyllideb hon. Byddwn hefyd yn sicrhau ein bod yn cyflwyno’r adnoddau a’r gofal cleifion i’r bobl sydd eu hangen fwyaf yn ein cymunedau. Bydd hynny’n rhoi’r manteision y mae angen inni eu gweld.

Geraint Davies spoken in English p. 126

Geraint Davies siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 126

Will you clarify the position regarding the announcement of public money for the new hospital in Rhondda? Does this mean that the private finance initiative scheme has been abandoned?

A wnewch chi egluro’r sefyllfa ynglŷn â chyhoeddi arian cyhoeddus ar gyfer yr ysbyty newydd yn y Rhondda? A olyga hyn eich bod wedi cefnu ar y cynllun menter cyllid preifat?

Jane Hutt spoken in English p. 126

Jane Hutt siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 126

I will clarify that this afternoon in the proper place, which is the Health and Social Services Committee meeting. However, as Edwina said, we are looking for money from the public capital programme to build two hospitals in Wales. She announced that this morning. You will receive more details later.

Egluraf hynny y prynhawn yma yn y lle priodol, sef cyfarfod y Pwyllgor Iechyd a Gwasanaethau Cymdeithasol. Fodd bynnag, fel y dywedodd Edwina, yr ydym yn chwilio am arian o’r rhaglen cyfalaf cyhoeddus i adeiladu dau ysbyty yng Nghymru. Cyhoeddodd hyn y bore yma. Cewch ragor o fanylion maes o law.

Brian Gibbons spoken in English p. 126

Brian Gibbons siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 126

Is it not true that you announced that moving from waiting lists to waiting times was the most important way of measuring performance in the NHS? In such a debate, cases such as that raised by Pauline are serious. The public need to realise that in excess of 90 per cent of all patients requiring NHS treatment are seen within a year. It would be erroneous to give the impression that there are vast numbers of people left waiting forever; it simply is not true.

Onid yw’n wir ichi gyhoeddi mai’r ffordd bwysicaf o fesur perfformiad yn yr NHS oedd drwy newid o restrau aros i amseroedd aros? Mewn dadl o’r fath, mae achosion fel yr un a godwyd gan Pauline yn ddifrifol. Mae angen i’r cyhoedd sylweddoli bod mwy na 90 y cant o’r holl gleifion y mae angen triniaeth NHS arnynt yn cael eu gweld o fewn blwyddyn. Byddai’n anghywir rhoi’r argraff bod nifer fawr o bobl yn gorfod aros am byth; nid yw hynny’n wir o gwbl.

Jane Hutt spoken in English p. 127

Jane Hutt siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 127

Brian is right. It is clear that our waiting times strategy, which the Health and Social Services Committee endorsed, is providing the baseline and structure for us to tackle the acceptable waiting times of patients in Wales. We need to tackle waiting times with resources and planning and ensure that those resources reach the patients, as Brian has demonstrated.

Mae Brian yn iawn. Mae’n glir bod y strategaeth amseroedd aros, a gymeradwywyd gan y Pwyllgor Iechyd a Gwasanaethau Cymdeithasol, yn darparu’r gwaelodlin a’r strwythur er mwyn inni fynd i’r afael ag amseroedd aros derbyniol i gleifion yng Nghymru. Mae angen inni fynd i’r afael ag amseroedd aros drwy gyfrwng adnoddau a gwaith cynllunio gan sicrhau bod yr adnoddau hynny yn cyrraedd y cleifion, fel y dangosodd Brian.

I have already given you the figures on the increase of activity in our hospitals, which David raised earlier this week. That activity has increased dramatically. At the end of this month, we stated that there had been an 8 per cent increase—

Yr wyf eisoes wedi rhoi’r ffigurau ichi ar y cynnydd mewn gweithgarwch yn ein hysbytai, a godwyd gan David yn gynharach yr wythnos hon. Mae’r gweithgarwch hwnnw wedi cynyddu’n sylweddol. Ar ddiwedd y mis hwn, gwnaethom nodi cynnydd o 8 y cant—

David Melding a gododd—

David Melding rose—

Jane Hutt spoken in English p. 127

Jane Hutt siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 127

I will finish this point, David. There has been an 8 per cent increase in the number of elective patients, both inpatient and day case patients treated. Those are the latest figures. Furthermore, there has been an increase of over 4 per cent in the numbers of outpatients seen for the first time. Those are important indications, David, that we are making a difference. It is due to the increase in activity and the increasing pressure on the service that is coming through at all levels. Peter Law alluded to age and demographic changes. We know that we will be facing more pressures and that we must plan for the capacity to deal with them. Evidence is coming through. The total inpatient and day activity rates increased by 2.6 per cent last year. Elective activity, including day cases, increased by 6.3 per cent and day cases increased by 11.6 per cent. Total outpatient attendancies increased by 1.5 per cent.

Terfynaf y pwynt hwn, David. Bu cynnydd o 8 y cant yn nifer y cleifion a gaiff lawdriniaeth ddewisol, sef cleifion mewnol a chleifion achosion dydd. Dyna’r ffigurau diweddaraf. Yn ogystal, bu cynnydd o fwy na 4 y cant yn nifer y cleifion allanol a welwyd am y tro cyntaf. Mae’r rheini yn arwyddion pwysig, David, sy’n dangos ein bod yn gwneud gwahaniaeth. Y rheswm dros hyn yw’r cynnydd mewn gweithgarwch a’r pwysau cynyddol ar y gwasanaeth ar bob lefel. Cyfeiriodd Peter Law at newidiadau o ran oed a newidiadau demograffig. Gwyddom y byddwn yn wynebu mwy o bwysau a bod yn rhaid inni sicrhau bod y gallu gennym i ddelio â hwy. Mae’r dystiolaeth yn dechrau ein cyrraedd. Cododd y cyfraddau o ran cyfanswm y cleifion mewnol a thriniaeth ddydd 2.6 y cant y llynedd. Cododd llawdriniaeth ddewisol, gan gynnwys achosion dydd, 6.3 y cant a chododd nifer yr achosion dydd 11.6 y cant. Cododd cyfanswm nifer y cleifion allanol 1.5 y cant.

I agree that we need more staff. We are doing the training—

Cytunaf fod angen mwy o staff arnom. Yr ydym yn rhoi hyfforddiant—

David Melding spoken in English p. 127

David Melding siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 127

There is fluctuation on a yearly or quarterly basis, but over the last four years the number of patients treated in the NHS has been as close to perfectly constant, in a statistical sense, as possible.

Ceir mân amrywiadau yn flynyddol neu yn chwarterol, ond, dros y pedair blynedd diwethaf, bu nifer y cleifion a gafodd driniaeth yn yr NHS bron mor gyson â phosibl, yn ystadegol.

Jane Hutt spoken in English p. 128

Jane Hutt siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 128

I have given you new statistics, which I have received recently, that show almost an 8 per cent increase in the total number of patients—inpatients and day cases—treated. Those statistics are important in the context of the last four years. There are peaks and troughs related to the time of year and the pressures on emergency admissions, which have an impact on elective activity. That is why we must ensure the changes that are coming through the innovations in care team, which will enable people to be cared for at home. Not everyone with an orthopaedic problem needs to see a consultant, for example. They could see a physiotherapist or a specialist GP. All these innovations are being brought into being in the health service.

Yr wyf wedi rhoi ystadegau newydd ichi, a gefais yn ddiweddar, sy’n dangos cynnydd o bron 8 y cant yng nghyfanswm nifer y cleifion—cleifion mewnol ac achosion dydd—a driniwyd. Mae’r ystadegau hynny yn bwysig yng nghyd-destun y pedair blynedd diwethaf. Mae’r ffigurau yn amrywio yn ôl adeg y flwyddyn a nifer yr achosion brys, a gaiff effaith ar lawdriniaeth ddewisol. Dyna pam mae’n rhaid inni sicrhau bod y newidiadau a gyflwynir gan y tîm dulliau arloesi ym maes gofal, a fydd yn caniatáu i bobl gael gofal gartref, yn digwydd. Nid oes angen i bawb sydd â phroblem orthopedig weld meddyg ymgynghorol, er enghraifft. Gallent weld ffisiotherapydd neu feddyg teulu arbenigol. Caiff yr holl newidiadau arloesol hyn eu cyflwyno i’r gwasanaeth iechyd.

This is taking place not just because of money, but as a result of planning and of implementing the waiting times strategy. All parties engaged with and supported the move towards waiting times by clinical priorities. All parties recognised that we needed to move away from the crude calculations of waiting lists to a system that attacked waiting times according to clinical priorities. As Pauline has identified, we need to ensure that waiting times include the monitoring of therapy and diagnostic waits. Those are key to people feeling confident about their treatment.

Nid yw hyn yn digwydd o ganlyniad i arian yn unig, ond o ganlyniad i’r broses o gynllunio a gweithredu’r strategaeth amseroedd aros. Bu pob plaid yn rhan o’r penderfyniad i gyflwyno amseroedd aros yn ôl blaenoriaethau clinigol. Cydnabu pob plaid fod angen inni symud o gyfrif rhestrau aros yn fras i system a fyddai’n mynd i’r afael ag amseroedd aros yn ôl blaenoriaethau clinigol. Fel y nododd Pauline, mae angen inni sicrhau bod amseroedd aros yn cynnwys y gwaith o fonitro’r amser y mae’n rhaid i bobl aros i gael therapi neu i gael diagnosis. Mae’r rheini yn allweddol i sicrhau bod pobl yn teimlo’n hyderus ynglŷn â’u triniaeth.

Rhodri Glyn Thomas spoken in English p. 128

Rhodri Glyn Thomas siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 128

Irrespective of the statistics that you have given us today, do you accept that the most important element of the health service is its staff at all levels? Do you accept that staff morale in the hospitals that border my constituency, and to whom I regularly talk, is at rock bottom? Some of them are prepared to walk away from the service, because they believe that the current system is unworkable. Do you accept that that is the reality within the health service?

Yn annibynnol ar yr ystadegau a roddwyd inni heddiw, a dderbyniwch mai’r elfen bwysicaf o’r gwasanaeth iechyd yw ei staff ar bob lefel? A dderbyniwch fod morâl ar ei isaf ymhlith y staff yn yr ysbytai sy’n cyffinio â’m hetholaeth, ac yr wyf yn siarad â hwy yn rheolaidd. Mae rhai ohonynt yn barod i adael y gwasanaeth, gan eu bod o’r farn bod y system bresennol yn anymarferol. A dderbyniwch mai dyna’r realiti yn y gwasanaeth iechyd?

Jane Hutt spoken in English p. 128

Jane Hutt siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 128

Many of your taunts and political gibes serve to undermine staff morale. You undermine the morale of the service in your approach to this important debate, which David Melding and others have said is a national debate. It is about the Assembly’s priorities for its budget and about backing the efforts being made daily in the service. It is not just about providing treatment, but ensuring that our 75,000 staff in Wales are supported. We had no workforce planning; the previous Government had dismantled it. We now have workforce planning, a human resource strategy and a staff forum, which I chair. We have a partnership forum. We have staff representatives on every trust in Wales. We have more staff coming into the service and more being trained.

Mae llawer o’ch geiriau edliwgar a’ch gwawdiau gwleidyddol yn tanseilio morâl y staff. Mae eich ymagwedd tuag at y ddadl bwysig hon, sy’n ddadl genedlaethol yn ôl David Melding ac Aelodau eraill, yn tanseilio morâl y gwasanaeth. Mae a wnelo â blaenoriaethau’r Cynulliad ar gyfer ei gyllideb a chefnogi’r ymdrechion a wneir bob dydd yn y gwasanaeth. Nid yw a wnelo â darparu triniaeth yn unig ond â sicrhau bod ein 75,000 o aelodau staff yng Nghymru yn cael cymorth. Nid oedd gennym unrhyw waith cynllunio’r gweithlu: yr oedd y Llywodraeth flaenorol wedi’i ddiddymu. Mae gennym bellach waith cynllunio’r gweithlu, strategaeth adnoddau dynol a fforwm staff, yr wyf yn ei gadeirio. Mae gennym fforwm partneriaeth. Mae gennym aelodau sy’n cynrychioli’r staff ar bob ymddiriedolaeth yng Nghymru. Mae mwy o staff yn ymuno â’r gwasanaeth ac yr ydym yn hyfforddi mwy o staff.

You cannot turn the situation around overnight. We recognise that, as do people outside the Assembly. They know that renewing and rebuilding the health service will be a long haul. We need the backing to get extra money in revenue and capital funding to ensure the right infrastructure. It is a matter of capacity, staff and resources, and the Labour-led administration is delivering that. The people of Wales recognise that. We all have examples of where things are not working. We must ensure that we are aware of them and tackle them effectively and sympathetically. As Minister for Health and Social Services, that is what I intend to do.

Ni ellir newid y sefyllfa yn llwyr dros nos. Cydnabyddwn hynny, fel y mae pobl y tu allan i’r Cynulliad yn ei wneud. Gwyddant y bydd y gwaith o adnewyddu ac ailddatblygu’r gwasanaeth iechyd yn cymryd amser hir. Mae angen y gefnogaeth arnom i gael arian ychwanegol o ran refeniw ac arian cyfalaf i sicrhau’r seilwaith cywir. Mae a wnelo â chapasiti, staff ac adnoddau, ac mae’r arweinyddiaeth o dan arweiniad y Blaid Lafur yn darparu hynny. Mae pobl Cymru yn cydnabod hynny. Mae gan bob un ohonom enghreifftiau o sefyllfaoedd lle nad yw pethau’n gweithio. Rhaid inni sicrhau ein bod yn ymwybodol ohonynt ac yn mynd i’r afael â hwy mewn modd effeithiol a cydymdeimladol. Fel y Gweinidog dros Iechyd a Gwasanaethau Cymdeithasol, dyna’r hyn y bwriadaf ei wneud.

John Marek The Deputy Presiding Officer spoken in English p. 129

John Marek Y Dirprwy Lywydd siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 129

That is the end of the session.

Dyna ddiwedd y cyfarfod.

Daeth y cyfarfod i ben am 1.09 p.m.

The session ended at 1.09 p.m.