Cynulliad Cenedlaethol CymruNational Assembly for Wales · Cyfarfod llawnPlenary sitting
Dydd Iau 8 Tachwedd 2001
Thursday 8 November 2001
CynnwysContents
- 3Cwestiynau i’r Dirprwy Brif Weinidog Gweithredol a’r Gweinidog dros Ddiwylliant, Chwaraeon a’r GymraegQuestions to the Acting Deputy First Minister and Minister for Culture, Sport and the Welsh Language
- 3Annog Oedolion i Wneud Ymarfer CorffEncouraging Adult Participation in Physical Exercise
- 4Hybu Traddodiadau Diwylliannol Amrywiol CymruPromotion of the Diverse Cultural Traditions in Wales
- 6Effaith Polisi Mynediad am Ddim i Amgueddfeydd ac Orielau Cenedlaethol CymruEffect of Free Admission to the National Museums and Galleries of Wales
- 7Proffil Diwylliannol Canol De CymruCultural Profile of South Wales Central
- 9Cyfranogiad Cyfartal Mewn Prosiectau a Pholisïau yn ymwneud â Diwylliant Cymru a’r Iaith GymraegEqual Participation in Welsh Cultural and Welsh Language Projects and Policies
- 11Cyllid ar gyfer Theatrau CymunedolFunding for Community-based Theatre
- 12Cadair Brifysgol mewn Celfyddyd GymunedolA University Chair in Community Arts
- 13Cwestiynau i’r Gweinidog dros Faterion GwledigQuestions to the Minister for Rural Affairs
- 13Newidiadau i Daliadau Polisi Amaethyddol CyffredinChanges to Common Agricultural Policy Payments
- 15Taliadau Rheoli DatblyguDevelopment Control Charges
- 16Cynllun Arallgyfeirio (Ymateb Cabinet)Diversification Plan (Cabinet Response)
- 17Fforwm Coetiroedd i GymruWoodlands Forum for Wales
- 19Mynediad i Dir GofalAccess to Tir Gofal
- 21Ailstrwythuro’r Economi WledigRestructuring the Rural Economy
- 23Cwestiynau i’r TrefnyddQuestions to the Minister for Assembly Business
- 23Cyfnewidfeydd Ffôn gydag ADSLTelephone Exchanges Offering ADSL
- 25Gwefannau Cymunedol yng NghymruCommunity Websites in Wales
- 27Strategaeth TGCh (Manteision i Fusnes)The ICT Strategy (Benefits for Business)
- 29Defnyddio’r Rhyngrwyd am Ddim mewn Llyfrgelloedd CyhoeddusFree Access to the Internet at Public Libraries
- 31Defnydd Busnesau Bach a Chanolig eu Maint o TGChThe Use of ICT by SMEs
- 33Methiant Gweinydd ym Mharc CathaysServer Failure at Cathays Park
- 34Pwyntiau o DrefnPoints of Order
- 48Cymeradwyo’r Gorchymyn ar y cyd, the Plant Breeders Rights (Fees) (Amendment)Regulations 2001 Approval of the Joint Order, the Plant Breeders Rights (Fees) (Amendment) Regulations 2001 1 bleidlais1 vote
- 49Cymeradwyo Chwech o Reoliadau Marchnata HadauApproval of Six Seed Marketing Regulations 12 o bleidleisiau12 votes
- 65Cymeradwyo Dau Adroddiad Grant Arbennig am Gymorth Ariannol i Fusnesau yr effeithiwyd arnynt gan Glwy’r Traed a’r GenauApproval of Two Special Grant Reports for Financial Assistance to Businesses Affected by Foot and Mouth Disease 2 o bleidleisiau2 votes
- 77Cymeradwyo’r Strategaeth CoetirApproval of the Woodlands Strategy 2 o bleidleisiau2 votes
- 101Dadl FerShort Debate
PleidleisiauVotes
TrafodionProceedings
Cyfarfu’r Cynulliad am 9.05 a.m. gyda’r Llywydd yn y Gadair.
The Assembly met at 9.05 a.m. with the Presiding Officer in the Chair.
Cwestiynau i’r Dirprwy Brif Weinidog Gweithredol a’r Gweinidog dros Ddiwylliant, Chwaraeon a’r Gymraeg
Questions to the Acting Deputy First Minister and Minister for Culture, Sport and the Welsh Language
Annog Oedolion i Wneud Ymarfer Corff
Encouraging Adult Participation in Physical Exercise
Pa gynlluniau sydd gennych i annog mwy o oedolion o ardaloedd llai breintiedig i wneud ymarfer corff? (OAQ13733)
What are your plans to attract more adults from less privileged areas to participate in physical exercise? (OAQ13733) [W]
Jenny Randerson The Minister for Culture, Sport and Welsh Language spoken in English p. 3
Jenny Randerson Y Gweinidog ar gyfer Ddiwylliant, Chwaraeon a’r Iaith Gymraeg siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 3
Increasing participation in sport for all ages, in all areas, is an integral part of the Assembly’s ‘Plan for Wales 2001’. The main thrust of the Sports Council for Wales’s strategy is to target participation, with special emphasis on participation by young people, women and girls.
Mae cynyddu cyfranogiad mewn chwaraeon i bobl o bob oed, ym mhob ardal, yn rhan annatod o ‘Cynllun i Gymru 2001’ y Cynulliad. Prif hanfod strategaeth Cyngor Chwaraeon Cymru yw targedu cyfranogiad, gyda phwyslais arbennig ar gyfranogiad gan bobl ifanc, menywod a merched.
We have already begun to facilitate a major drive to increase participation rates among adults. The additional £650,000 I announced earlier this week for the sports council in 2002-03 will contribute to the drive to increase participation across Wales, including in golf. Through the sports council’s social inclusion in sport forum, the Assembly is set to ensure that the opportunities to partake in physical exercise are available to everyone in Wales, regardless of social or economic background.
Yr ydym eisoes wedi dechrau hwyluso ymgyrch sylweddol i gynyddu cyfraddau cyfranogi ymysg oedolion. Bydd y £650,000 ychwanegol y cyhoeddais yn gynharach yr wythnos hon ar gyfer y cyngor chwaraeon yn 2002-03 yn cyfrannu at yr ymgyrch i gynyddu cyfranogiad ledled Cymru, gan gynnwys golff. Drwy fforwm cynhwysedd cymdeithasol mewn chwaraeon y cyngor chwaraeon, mae’r Cynulliad yn barod i sicrhau bod y cyfleoedd i gyfranogi mewn ymarfer corff ar gael i bawb yng Nghymru, waeth beth yw eu cefndir cymdeithasol neu economaidd.
A gytunwch fod yr arfer o fod yn aelod i glwb cadw’n heini yn gyfyngedig, i raddau helaeth, i’r dosbarth canol, yn bennaf oherwydd y gost? Mae llawer o’n cymunedau tlotaf yn dioddef yn sgîl afiechydon a diffyg gwybodaeth am fyw’n iach. Onid oes dyletswydd ar y Llywodraeth i sicrhau bod adnoddau ymarfer corff ar gael ym mhob man ac am bris rhesymol, ac yr anogir pobl i’w defnyddio?
Do you agree that membership of keep fit clubs is restricted to the middle classes to a great extent, primarily because of the cost? Many of our poorest communities suffer as a result of ill-health and a lack of information about healthy living. Is it not the Government’s duty to ensure that physical exercise resources are available everywhere at a reasonable cost and that people are encouraged to use them?
It is part of my duty to ensure that there are sports facilities and information on sport available everywhere. The social inclusion in sports forum, which was established in December 1999, has in the last 18 months ploughed £1.2 million into Wales’s most socially deprived areas. Another £4 million is in the pipeline and, in addition to that, £48 million is available through the new opportunities fund, which will go to areas that have poor facilities and where there is social need. I hope that money will be spent, not only on schools, but also on schools opening up their facilities to communities.
Mae’n rhan o’m dyletswydd i sicrhau bod cyfleusterau chwaraeon a gwybodaeth ar chwaraeon ar gael ymhobman. Mae’r fforwm cynhwysedd cymdeithasol mewn chwaraeon, a sefydlwyd yn Rhagfyr 1999, wedi rhoi £1.2 miliwn yn y 18 mis diwethaf i ardaloedd mwyaf cymdeithasol ddifreintiedig Cymru. Mae £4 miliwn pellach ar y ffordd ac, yn ogystal â hynny, mae £48 miliwn ar gael drwy’r gronfa cyfleoedd newydd, a fydd yn mynd i ardaloedd sydd â chyfleusterau gwael a lle mae angen cymdeithasol. Gobeithiaf y gwerir arian, nid yn unig ar ysgolion, ond hefyd ar ysgolion sy’n agor eu cyfleusterau i gymunedau.
Do you agree that the provision of accessible and good-quality sport and recreational facilities is important for people of all ages, particularly the elderly? I declare an interest in that respect. Do you also agree that this sits well in the context of the older people strategy that Jane Hutt announced on Tuesday? I would have asked Jane Hutt this question then, had I been allowed to do so.
A gytunwch fod darparu cyfleusterau chwaraeon a hamdden y gellir cael mynediad iddynt ac sydd o ansawdd da yn bwysig i bobl o bob oed, yn enwedig yr henoed? Datganaf fuddiant yn yr ystyr hwnnw. A gytunwch hefyd fod hyn yn addas yng nghyd-destun y strategaeth pobl hŷn a gyhoeddwyd gan Jane Hutt ddydd Mawrth? Buaswn wedi gofyn y cwestiwn hwn i Jane Hutt bryd hynny, pe bawn i wedi cael gwneud hynny.
I agree. We rightly put much emphasis on young people because a healthy lifestyle sets the tone for their future. However, it is important that we do not forget older people. An advantage of the Sports Council for Wales’s emphasis on the inclusion of women and girls in sport is that women are disproportionally represented among older people—there are more women than men in the older age groups. Therefore, that initiative will have an impact on older people. I am mindful of the health impact of a healthy sporting life on older people and of its advantages. I will bear that in mind in making decisions.
Cytunaf. Yr ydym yn gywir yn rhoi llawer o bwyslais ar bobl ifanc oherwydd bod ffordd o fyw iach yn gosod sylfaen ar gyfer eu dyfodol. Fodd bynnag, mae’n bwysig nad ydym yn anghofio pobl hŷn. Un o fanteision pwyslais Cyngor Chwaraeon Cymru ar gynnwys menywod a merched mewn chwaraeon yw bod menywod wedi eu cynrychioli yn anghyfartal ymysg pobl hŷn—mae mwy o fenywod na dynion yn y grwpiau oedran hŷn. O ganlyniad, caiff y fenter honno effaith ar bobl hŷn. Yr wyf yn ymwybodol o effaith bywyd chwaraeon iach ar iechyd pobl hŷn ac o’i fanteision. Byddaf yn cadw hynny mewn cof wrth wneud penderfyniadau.
Hybu Traddodiadau Diwylliannol Amrywiol Cymru
Promotion of the Diverse Cultural Traditions in Wales
What plans does the Minister have to promote the many diverse cultural traditions that are an integral part of modern Wales? (OAQ13742)
Pa gynlluniau sydd gan y Gweinidog i hybu’r llu o draddodiadau diwylliannol amrywiol sy’n rhan hanfodol o’r Gymru fodern? (OAQ13742)
I was pleased to launch the Arts Council of Wales’s cultural diversity strategy in May this year. That strategy aims to promote equality of access to a wide range of arts events for people of all cultures and communities. The arts council is committed to implementing the targets contained in the strategy, and the proposed increase in its budget will enable it to run a scheme to fund projects to celebrate the Year of Cultural Diversity in 2002. My culture strategy, which I will present to the Culture Committee on 21 November, also promotes cultural diversity and sets targets to help achieve it.
Yr oedd yn bleser gennyf lansio strategaeth amrywiaeth ddiwylliannol Cyngor Celfyddydau Cymru ym Mai eleni. Mae’r strategaeth honno yn anelu at hyrwyddo cydraddoldeb mynediad i ystod eang o ddigwyddiadau celfyddydol ar gyfer pobl o bob diwylliant a chymuned. Mae cyngor y celfyddydau yn ymrwymedig i weithredu’r targedau yn y strategaeth, a bydd y cynnydd arfaethedig yn ei gyllideb yn ei alluogi i redeg cynllun i ariannu prosiectau i ddathlu’r Flwyddyn o Amrywiaeth Ddiwylliannol yn 2002. Bydd y strategaeth ddiwylliannol a gyflwynaf i’r Pwyllgor Diwylliant ar 21 Tachwedd hefyd yn hyrwyddo amrywiaeth ddiwylliannol ac yn gosod targedau i gynorthwyo’r gwaith o gyflawni hynny.
I am pleased to hear of that list of planned activities. Do you agree that this celebration of diversity in Wales reflects the true new national identity of Wales, rather than the monocultural totalitarianism that is being promoted in some circles, which will exclude three-quarters of the people who live in Wales?
Mae’n dda gennyf glywed am y rhestr honno o weithgareddau sydd wedi eu cynllunio. A gytunwch fod y dathliad hwn o amrywiaeth yng Nghymru yn adlewyrchu gwir hunaniaeth genedlaethol newydd Cymru, yn hytrach na’r dotalitariaeth unddiwylliant sydd yn cael ei hyrwyddo mewn rhai cylchoedd, na fydd yn cynnwys tri chwarter y bobl sy’n byw yng Nghymru?
It is important that efforts to support and develop the Welsh language do not lead to any group feeling that it is excluded. You may find it helpful to discuss with me, or with other members of the Culture Committee, the emphasis placed on this by the Commission for Racial Equality yesterday, when it presented interesting evidence. It presented thoughtful ideas on developments for the future, which were useful to us all.
Mae’n bwysig nad yw’r ymdrechion i gynnal a datblygu’r iaith Gymraeg yn arwain at sefyllfa lle bydd unrhyw grŵp yn teimlo ei fod yn cael ei eithrio. Efallai y bydd yn ddefnyddiol ichi drafod â mi, neu ag aelodau eraill o’r Pwyllgor Diwylliant, y pwyslais a osodwyd ar hyn gan y Comisiwn Cydraddoldeb Hiliol ddoe, pan gyflwynodd dystiolaeth ddiddorol. Cyflwynodd syniadau diddorol ar ddatblygiadau ar gyfer y dyfodol, a oedd yn ddefnyddiol inni i gyd.
I agree with what you say, but it is true that much traditional Welsh culture revolves around the Welsh language. Will you join me in applauding the cross-party approach that exists in the Chamber towards promoting the Welsh language, and recognise the role that recent Conservative Governments, and Lord Roberts of Conwy in particular, played in the progress and achievements of the language in recent years?
Cytunaf â’r hyn a ddywedwch, ond mae’n wir bod llawer o ddiwylliant traddodiadol Gymreig yn ymwneud â’r iaith Gymraeg. A wnewch chi ymuno â mi wrth gymeradwyo’r ymagwedd drawsbleidiol sy’n bodoli yn y Siambr tuag at hyrwyddo’r iaith Gymraeg, a chydnabod y rôl y mae Llywodraethau Ceidwadol diweddar, a’r Arglwydd Roberts o Gonwy yn benodol, wedi ei chwarae yng nghynnydd a gorchestion yr iaith yn y blynyddoedd diwethaf?
I value the cross-party consensus in the Chamber on Welsh language issues. It is important that occasional statements made outside the Assembly, on both sides of the argument, do not fracture that consensus. I did not agree with much that the Conservative Government did in Wales over almost 20 years, but I am happy to acknowledge that the Welsh Language Act 1993 and the introduction of Welsh being taught compulsorily in schools up to the age of 16 were two geniune contributions.
Gwerthfawrogaf y consensws trawsbleidiol yn y Siambr ar faterion yn ymwneud â’r iaith Gymraeg. Mae’n bwysig nad yw datganiadau a wneir o bryd i’w gilydd y tu allan i’r Cynulliad, ar ddwy ochr y ddadl, yn niweidio’r consensws hwnnw. Nid oeddwn yn cytuno â llawer o’r hyn a wnaethpwyd gan y Llywodraeth Geidwadol yng Nghymru ystod bron i 20 mlynedd, ond yr wyf yn fodlon cydnabod bod Deddf yr Iaith Gymraeg 1993 a chyflwyno dysgu’r Gymraeg yn orfodol mewn ysgolion hyd at 16 oed yn ddau gyfraniad gwirioneddol.
Effaith Polisi Mynediad am Ddim i Amgueddfeydd ac Orielau Cenedlaethol Cymru
Effect of Free Admission to the National Museums and Galleries of Wales
Will the Minister outline discussions she has held with representatives of privately owned tourist attractions or museums on the effect of the free admission policy for National Museums and Galleries of Wales? (OAQ13756)
A wnaiff y Gweinidog amlinellu’r trafodaethau a gafodd gyda chynrychiolwyr perchnogion atyniadau twristaidd neu amgueddfeydd preifat ynghylch effaith y polisi mynediad am ddim i Amgueddfeydd ac Orielau Cenedlaethol Cymru? (OAQ13756)
I have not met representatives of privately owned attractions or museums, but I met the south-east Wales economic forum on 8 August and we discussed the impact of free entry at the National Museums and Galleries of Wales and the difficulty of quantifying its effects in the light of the foot and mouth disease epidemic.
Nid wyf wedi cyfarfod â chynrychiolwyr perchnogion atyniadau twristaidd neu amgueddfeydd preifat, ond cyfarfûm â fforwm economaidd y De-ddwyrain ar 8 Awst a thrafodasom effaith mynediad am ddim i Amgueddfeydd ac Orielau Cenedlaethol Cymru a’r anhawster o ran mesur ei effeithiau yn dilyn argyfwng clwy’r traed a’r genau.
Will you now meet representatives of privately owned tourist attractions to ensure that you can offer, where necessary, appropriate advice and help to ensure that they do not suffer further from what could be described as, in rural communities, a continuing crisis?
A wnewch chi yn awr gyfarfod cynrychiolwyr atyniadau twristaidd preifat i sicrhau y gallwch, lle y bo’n briodol, gynnig cyngor a chymorth priodol i sicrhau nad ydynt yn dioddef ymhellach o’r hyn y gellid ei ddisgrifio, mewn cymunedau cefn gwlad, fel argyfwng parhaus?
I am happy to consider meeting them, but the national museum has met many representatives, and has formed useful partnerships with several private attractions and museums. That offers mutual benefits in terms of joint advertising, marketing and so on. As the position becomes clearer and as the foot and mouth disease epidemic, hopefully, recedes into the past, there is a great deal to be gained from reconsidering the situation.
Yr wyf yn hapus i ystyried cyfarfod â hwy, ond mae’r amgueddfa genedlaethol wedi cyfarfod â llawer o gynrychiolwyr, ac wedi ffurfio partneriaethau defnyddiol â sawl atyniad ac amgueddfa breifat. Mae hynny yn cynnig buddiannau ar bob ochr o ran hysbysebu ar y cyd, marchnata ac ati. Wrth i’r sefyllfa ddod yn gliriach a, gobeithio, wrth i argyfwng clwy’r traed a’r genau ddiflannu i’r gorffennol, bydd llawer i’w ennill o ailystyried y sefyllfa.
A oes ffigurau ar gael ar nifer yr ymwelwyr ag amgueddfeydd gogledd Cymru, er enghraifft Amgueddfa Llechi Cymru yn Llanberis neu gaer Rufeinig Segontium?
Are figures available on the number of visitors to museums in north Wales, for example the Welsh Slate Museum in Llanberis or the Roman fort at Segontium?
Yes. I am pleased to inform you that the overall picture in north Wales in terms of the national museum’s branches is good. At Segontium, visitor numbers have increased by around a third, and at the Welsh Slate Museum visitors have increased by a staggering 120 per cent. That is important given that both are in the middle of an area that has been affected badly by foot and mouth disease. Overall, visitors to the museums have almost doubled. A few weeks ago, I welcomed the millionth visitor, since 1 April this year, to the national museum’s sites in Wales.
Oes. Yr wyf yn falch o ddweud wrthych bod y darlun cyffredinol yn y Gogledd o ran canghennau’r amgueddfa genedlaethol yn dda. Yn Segontium, mae nifer yr ymwelwyr wedi cynyddu tua thraean, ac, yn yr Amgueddfa Lechi, mae ymwelwyr wedi cynyddu 120 y cant, sydd yn syfrdanol. Mae hynny yn bwysig o ystyried bod y ddwy amgueddfa yng nghanol ardal a effeithiwyd yn wael gan glwy’r traed a’r genau. Ar y cyfan, mae ymwelwyr i’r amgueddfeydd bron wedi dyblu. Rai wythnosau yn ôl, rhoddais groeso i’r miliynfed ymwelydd, ers 1 Ebrill eleni, i safleoedd yr amgueddfa genedlaethol yng Nghymru.
Croesawaf y cynnydd yn nifer y bobl sy’n ymweld â’r amgueddfeydd hyn yn sgîl cyflwyno polisi mynediad am ddim. Gobeithiaf y bydd y polisi hwnnw’n helpu amgueddfeydd bach preifat. Bu ichi sôn am Segontium. Gan fod pwysau o du’r Amgueddfa Genedlaethol iddo gael ei redeg gan ymddiriedolaeth leol yng Nghaernarfon yn hytrach nag yn uniongyrchol ganddi hi, a wnewch chi sicrhau bod yr Amgueddfa Genedlaethol yn trosglwyddo cyllid digonol i warchod y sefyllfa honno am rai blynyddoedd er mwyn sicrhau bod y prosiect yn tyfu ar seiliau cadarn?
I welcome the increase in the numbers visiting these museums following the introduction of the free admission policy. I hope that that policy will assist small private museums. You mentioned Segontium. Given that there is pressure from the National Museum for it to be run by a local trust in Caernarfon rather than directly by the National Musesm, will you ensure that it transfers adequate funding to safeguard that situation for some years in order to ensure that the project develops on firm foundations?
Having visited Segontium, I am aware of what a jewel it is and I assure you that any future plans will bear in mind its long-term viability and importance to the area. We will go forward on the basis of development rather than retraction.
Ar ôl ymweld â Segontium, gwn ei bod yn em gwerthfawr a gallaf eich sicrhau y bydd unrhyw gynlluniau yn y dyfodol yn ystyried ei hyfywedd a’i bwysigrwydd hirdymor i’r ardal. Awn ymlaen ar sail datblygu yn hytrach na gwrthdynu.
Proffil Diwylliannol Canol De Cymru
Cultural Profile of South Wales Central
What progress has been made in promoting and enhancing South Wales Central’s cultural profile? (OAQ13738)
Pa gynnydd sydd wedi ei wneud o ran hybu a gwella proffil diwylliannol Canol De Cymru? (OAQ13738)
The Assembly is supporting the development of the Wales Millennium Centre, and Cardiff City and County Council’s bid for European Capital of Culture status in 2008. Over £4 million was paid out in arts council grants to the South Wales Central area last year.
Mae’r Cynulliad yn cefnogi datblygiad Canolfan Mileniwm Cymru, a chais Dinas a Sir Caerdydd am statws Prifddinas Diwylliant Ewrop yn 2008. Talwyd dros £4 miliwn mewn grantiau gan y cyngor celfyddydau i ardal Canol De Cymru y llynedd.
The Capital of Culture 2008 bid will offer a tremendous opportunity for Cardiff and Wales to promote its wide range of talented artists, actors, poets and musicians. We have some of the finest artists of anywhere in the world and we export a great number of these people around the world to promote Wales. However, an integral part of the strategy to gain the Capital of Culture bid must be the construction of the Wales Millennium Centre. Can the Minister indicate when she will be able to make a statement to update Members on the progress of this great project?
Bydd cais Prifddinas Diwylliant 2008 yn rhoi cyfle gwych i Gaerdydd a Chymru hyrwyddo eu hamrywiaeth eang o artistiaid, actorion, beirdd a cherddorion talentog. Mae gennym rai o artistiaid gorau’r byd ac yr ydym yn allforio nifer fawr o’r bobl hyn ledled y byd i hyrwyddo Cymru. Fodd bynnag, rhan allweddol o’r strategaeth i lwyddo yn y cais am Brifddinas Diwylliant fydd adeiladu Canolfan Mileniwm Cymru. A all y Gweinidog ddweud pryd y bydd yn gallu gwneud datganiad i roi’r wybodaeth ddiweddaraf i’r Aelodau ar gynnydd y prosiect arbennig hwn?
You will be aware that this is a commercially sensitive issue at present. I can, however, report to Members—as I did a few weeks ago during oral questions—that discussions are proceeding. I hope that they will reach a conclusion in the relatively near future, and I expect to be able to give a report to this Chamber before Christmas.
Fe wyddoch bod hwn yn fater masnachol sensitif ar hyn o bryd. Gallaf, fodd bynnag, ddweud wrth yr Aelodau—fel y gwneuthum rhai wythnosau yn ôl yn ystod cwestiynau llafar—bod trafodaethau yn mynd yn eu blaen. Gobeithiaf y byddant yn dod i gasgliad yn y dyfodol gweddol agos, a disgwyliaf allu rhoi adroddiad i’r Siambr hon cyn y Nadolig.
Does the Minister accept that there are many people throughout Wales who do not agree that another £25 million of public money should be pumped into the Wales Millennium Centre project? It is disgraceful, bearing in mind the exclusion and deprivation that exists in many parts of Wales. Will she give us the chance to have a democratic vote in the Chamber on whether we put that money into this development?
A yw’r Gweinidog yn derbyn bod llawer o bobl ledled Cymru nad ydynt yn cytuno y dylid rhoi £25 miliwn arall o arian cyhoeddus i brosiect Canolfan Mileniwm Cymru? Mae’n warthus, o ystyried yr allgáu a’r amddifadedd sy’n bodoli mewn sawl rhan o Gymru. A rydd gyfle inni gael pleidlais ddemocrataidd yn y Siambr ar y cynnig i fuddsoiddi’r arian hwnnw yn y datblygiad hwn?
You said that last time, and my answer is roughly the same as it was then. I had intended to hold a vote on this at the crucial time but, regretfully, that opportunity was not available because of the sad death of Val Feld. Events have moved on since then. However, you have my commitment that arts funding will be spread throughout Wales and, as a result of several initiatives, there is a strong flow of money, particularly from the Arts Council of Wales, throughout the Valleys. For example, in the year 2000-01, £1.7 million was spent in the Valleys by the arts council. Therefore, there is an ongoing programme throughout Wales.
Dywedasoch hynny y tro diwethaf, ac mae fy ateb yn fras yr un peth ag yr oedd bryd hynny. Yr oeddwn wedi bwriadu cynnal pleidlais ar hyn ar yr adeg dyngedfennol ond, yn anffodus nid oedd y cyfle hwnnw ar gael oherwydd marwolaeth drist Val Feld. Mae digwyddiadau wedi symud yn eu blaen ers hynny. Fodd bynnag, yr wyf wedi ymrwymo i sicrhau y bydd arian ar gyfer y celfyddydau yn cael ei daenu i bob cwr o Gymru ac, o ganlyniad i sawl menter, mae llif cryf o arian, yn enwedig o Gyngor Celfyddydau Cymru, ledled y Cymoedd. Er enghraifft, yn 2000-01, gwariodd y cyngor celfyddydau £1.7 miliwn yn y Cymoedd. O ganlyniad, mae rhaglen barhaus ledled Cymru.
When visiting the Irish Republic, one is struck by the way Irish culture is promoted in the pubs of that country. In Wales, however, we tend to get Anglo and American culture within our public houses. What plans do you have to promote Welsh culture, in both languages, in the pubs of Wales?
Wrth ymweld â Gweriniaeth Iwerddon, cawn ein taro gan y ffordd yr hyrwyddir diwylliant Gwyddelig yn nhafarndai’r wlad honno. Fodd bynnag, yng Nghymru yr ydym yn tueddu i gael diwylliant Eingl ac Americanaidd yn ein tafarndai. Pa gynlluniau sydd gennych i hyrwyddo diwylliant Cymreig, yn y ddwy iaith, yn nhafarndai Cymru?
I had better be careful in answering this, as it could incriminate me, and I could be accused ot being on one long binge. I have, however, had informal discussions, off the record, and totally by chance, with a brewery that has that sort of plan. I found that interesting, and it is an aspect of culture that could be developed. I pointed the brewery concerned—which I cannot mention here, but I will tell you later—towards the Wales Tourist Board, because funding could be available to help its plans.
Mae’n well imi fod yn ofalus wrth ateb hwn, gan y gallwn gael fy nghyhuddo o fod ar y cwrw drwy’r amser. Fodd bynnag, yr wyf wedi cael trafodaethau anffurfiol, yn answyddogol, ac ar hap yn llwyr, gyda bragdy sydd â chynllun o’r fath mewn golwg. Yr oedd hynny yn ddiddorol, ac mae’n agwedd ar ddiwylliant y gellid ei datblygu. Cyfeiriais y bragdy dan sylw—na allaf ei enwi yma, ond y byddaf yn dweud wrthych yn nes ymlaen—at Fwrdd Croeso Cymru, oherwydd gallai arian fod ar gael i gynorthwyo ei gynlluniau.
Cyfranogiad Cyfartal Mewn Prosiectau a Pholisïau yn ymwneud â Diwylliant Cymru a’r Iaith Gymraeg
Equal Participation in Welsh Cultural and Welsh Language Projects and Policies
How does the Minister secure equal participation in Welsh cultural and Welsh language projects and policies? (OAQ13758)
Sut y mae’r Gweinidog yn sicrhau cyfranogiad cyfartal mewn prosiectau a pholisïau’n ymwneud â diwylliant Cymru, a phrosiectau a pholisïau iaith Gymraeg? (OAQ13758)
Assembly sponsored public bodies, such as the Arts Council of Wales and the Welsh Language Board, must comply with management statements. These state that their functions should be exercised with due regard to the principles of equality of opportunity for all people, and the equal treatment of the Welsh and English languages.
Rhaid i gyrff cyhoeddus a noddir gan y Cynulliad, megis Cyngor Celfyddydau Cymru a Bwrdd yr Iaith Gymraeg, gydymffurfio â datganiadau rheoli. Mae’r rhain yn nodi y dylid rhoi sylw priodol i egwyddorion cyfle cyfartal i bawb, a thrin y Gymraeg a’r Saesneg yn gyfartal, wrth gyflawni eu swyddogaethau.
You will be aware of plans by Swansea City and County Council to establish a Welsh-medium secondary school at the Penlan site. In view of the mass parental objections to these plans, are you concerned that this could lead to a cultural divide in the city, with parents from the east side rejecting Welsh-medium education?
Yr ydych yn ymwybodol o gynlluniau Cyngor Dinas a Sir Abertawe i sefydlu ysgol uwchradd Gymraeg ar safle Penlan. O gofio gwrthwynebiad nifer fawr o rieni i’r cynlluniau hyn a ydych yn pryderu y gallai hyn arwain at raniad diwylliannol yn y ddinas, gyda rhieni o’r dwyrain yn gwrthwynebu addysg drwy gyfrwng y Gymraeg?
I think that this question should not be put to me, but to the Minister for Education and Lifelong Learning. The only—
Credaf na ddylai’r cwestiwn hwn gael ei ofyn i mi, ond i’r Gweinidog dros Addysg a Dysgu Gydol Oes. Yr unig—
Dafydd Elis-Thomas The Presiding Officer spoken in English p. 10
Dafydd Elis-Thomas Y Llywydd siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 10
Order. This is a question about education, but the original question refers to culture and projects relating to the Welsh language, so I do not regard the supplementary question as being out of order.
Trefn. Mae hwn yn gwestiwn am addysg, ond mae’r cwestiwn gwreiddiol yn cyfeirio at ddiwylliant a phrosiectau sy’n gysylltiedig â’r iaith Gymraeg, felly nid ydwyf yn ystyried bod y cwestiwn atodol hwn allan o drefn.
In that case I will simply say that my policies in relation to education are made via the Education and Lifelong Learning Committee and the Minister for Education and Lifelong Learning. I suggest that you put your points and concerns to the that Committee when it discusses the review of the Welsh language.
Os felly dywedaf yn syml y caiff fy mholisiau ar addysg eu llunio drwy’r Pwyllgor Addysg a Dysgu Gydol Oes a’r Gweinidog dros Addysg a Dysgu Gydol Oes. Awgrymaf eich bod yn cyflwyno eich pwyntiau a’ch pryderon i’r Pwyllgor hwnnw pan fydd yn trafod yr adolygiad o’r iaith Gymraeg.
Yn dilyn eich trafferth i ateb cwestiwn Alun Cairns, a gredwch erbyn hyn fod gosod y cyfrifoldeb am y Gymraeg mewn un portffolio Cabinet, ac mewn cylch gorchwyl un Pwyllgor, yn annigonol? Oni chredwch y dylai’r Gymraeg gael ei thrin fel mater trawsbynciol yn y Cynulliad, gan nad yw’r Gymraeg yn bodoli mewn gwacter, ond yn cael ei heffeithio, er enghraifft, gan yr economi, tai, amaeth, ac addysg?
Following on from your difficulty in answering Alun Cairns’s question, do you now think that placing responsibility for the Welsh language in one Cabinet portfolio, and within one Committee’s remit, is inadequate? Do you not think that the Welsh Language should be treated as a cross-cutting issue in the Assembly, as it does not exist in a vacuum, but is affected by, for example, the economy, housing, agriculture and education?
I agree that the Welsh language has an impact, and that Welsh language policy should have an impact, on everything we do in the Assembly. The Welsh language review has brought this to our attention. How we deal with it in terms of day-to-day management will be a matter for this Assembly at the end of that review.
Cytunaf fod y Gymraeg yn cael effeithio, ac y dylai polisi’r iaith Gymraeg effeithio, ar bob peth yr ydym yn ei wneud yn y Cynulliad. Mae’r adolygiad o’r iaith Gymraeg wedi dwyn hyn i’n sylw. Bydd y ffordd yr ydym yn ymdrin â hyn yn nhermau rheoli o ddydd i ddydd yn fater i’r Cynulliad ar ddiwedd yr adolygiad hwnnw.
Cyllid ar gyfer Theatrau Cymunedol
Funding for Community-based Theatre
Will the Minister make a statement on funding for community-based theatre? (OAQ13755)
A wnaiff y Gweinidog ddatganiad ar gyllid ar gyfer theatrau cymunedol? (OAQ13755)
Community-based theatre is a mosaic of provision, which includes the Arts Council of Wales’s night out scheme, youth theatre, theatre in education, amateur theatre and large scale community plays. I cannot give you a detailed answer, but I draw your attention to the night out touring scheme, which involves professional theatre companies and other performers visiting village halls or similar venues. Last year, the night out scheme enabled 150 community organisations throughout Wales to stage more than 300 performances which attracted audiences totalling almost 23,000; about £138,000 was paid in artists’ fees.
Mae theatrau cymunedol yn frith o ddarpariaeth, sy’n cynnwys cynllun noson allan Cyngor Celfyddydau Cymru, theatr ieuenctid, theatr mewn addysg, theatr amatur a dramâu cymunedol ar raddfa fawr. Ni allaf roi ateb manwl ichi, ond tynnaf eich sylw at y cynllun noson allan ar daith, sy’n cynnwys cwmnïau theatr proffesiynol a pherfformwyr eraill sy’n ymweld â neuaddau pentref neu leoliadau tebyg. Y llynedd, bu’r cynllun noson allan yn fodd i 150 o sefydliadau cymuned ledled Cymru lwyfannu mwy na 300 o berfformiadau a ddenodd cynulleidfaoedd o bron i 23,000; talwyd tua £138,000 mewn ffioedd artistiaid.
Do you share my concern that too much funding is allocated to high profile arts projects based in the capital and not nearly enough is allocated to the smaller based companies, such as Gwent Theatre’s theatre in education company? Do you agree that these companies do an enormous amount of good work in bringing the arts to young people and do so on a low budget?
A rannwch fy mhryder fod gormod o arian yn cael ei ddyrannu i brosiectau celfyddydol proffil uchel yn y brifddinas ac nad oes digon o bell ffordd yn cael ei ddyrannu i gwmnïau llai, megis cwmni theatr mewn addysg Theatr Gwent? A gytunwch fod y cwmnïau hyn yn gwneud llawer o waith da wrth ddod â’r celfyddydau i bobl ifanc ac yn gwneud hynny ar gyllideb fach?
I agree that those companies do a tremendous job. Much work is going on to increase the amount of community activity and there has been an excellent budget announcement, allocating an extra £2.7 million to the Arts Council of Wales next year. That is in addition to the £1.2 million increase that had already been indicated, making a total of over £20 million, which should enable further good work to be done.
Cytunaf fod y cwmnïau hyn yn gwneud gwaith arbennig. Gwneir llawer o waith i sicrhau bod mwy o weithgaredd cymunedol a chyhoeddwyd cyllideb arbennig yn dyrannu £2.7 miliwn ychwanegol i Gyngor Celfyddydau Cymru y flwyddyn nesaf. Mae hynny yn ychwanegol at y cynnydd o £1.2 miliwn a oedd eisoes wedi ei nodi, gan roi cyfanswm o dros £20 miliwn, a dylai hyn olygu y caiff gwaith da ei wneud.
What does the arts council intend to do to ensure an increase in the funding of community-based theatres, with the money that you indicated, and to ensure that it is spread throughout Wales?
Beth y mae cyngor y celfyddydau yn bwriadu ei wneud i sicrhau cynnydd yn yr arian a roddir i theatrau cymunedol, gyda’r arian y nodwyd gennych, ac i sicrhau ei fod yn cael ei rannu ledled Cymru?
I largely answered that in response to a previous question. I will give a remit letter to the Arts Council of Wales. A culture strategy will be published soon, which places great emphasis on community development. My previous answer gave details of the funding which will enable that to happen.
I raddau helaeth atebais hyn wrth ateb cwestiwn blaenorol. Rhoddaf lythyr gorchwyl i Gyngor Celfyddydau Cymru. Caiff strategaeth ddiwylliant ei chyhoeddi cyn hir, sy’n rhoi pwyslais mawr ar ddatblygiad cymunedol. Rhoddodd fy ateb blaenorol fanylion yr arian a fydd yn galluogi hynny i ddigwydd.
Cadair Brifysgol mewn Celfyddyd Gymunedol
A University Chair in Community Arts
Pa benderfyniad sydd wedi cael ei wneud ynghylch yr argymhelliad yn ‘Diwylliant Cytun’ i sefydlu cadair brifysgol mewn celfyddyd gymunedol? (OAQ13766)
What decision has been made regarding the recommendation in ‘A Culture in Common’ to establish a university chair in community arts? (OAQ13766)
I have been in discussion with the University of Glamorgan. I am pleased to be able to tell you that the university’s directorate has agreed to proceed to the appointment of a chair in community arts. I support the university in this initiative, which is excellent news, and will discuss with it how this might be taken forward.
Yr wyf wedi trafod â Phrifysgol Morgannwg. Yr wyf yn falch o allu dweud wrthych bod cyfarwyddiaeth y brifysgol wedi cytuno i fwrw ymlaen i benodi cadair mewn celfyddyd gymunedol. Cefnogaf y brifysgol yn y fenter hon, sy’n newyddion ardderchog, a byddaf yn trafod â’r Brifysgol sut y gellid datblygu hyn.
Yr oeddwn wedi clywed awgrym y byddai’r datblygiad, efallai, yn dod o Brifysgol Morgannwg. Mae’n amlwg yn rhywbeth i’w groesawu ac mae Prifysgol Morgannwg yn lleoliad hollol briodol ar ei gyfer. A ydych yn cytuno hefyd y bydd angen i Brifysgol Morgannwg ddatblygu’r syniad hwn mewn ffordd sydd yn berthnasol i Gymru gyfan, fel bod y Gadair yn gyfrifol am feithrin strategaeth a syniadau ar gyfer celfyddyd gymunedol ar lefel genedlaethol, ac nid ar lefel ranbarthol yn unig?
I had heard a suggestion that perhaps the development would come from the University of Glamorgan. It is obviously to be welcomed and the University of Glamorgan is an entirely suitable location for it. Do you also agree that the University of Glamorgan will need to develop this concept in way that is relevant to the whole of Wales, so that the Chair will be responsible for fostering a strategy and ideas for community arts at a national level, and not just at a regional level?
I agree. I have already scheduled discussions with the university and the Arts Council of Wales to take forward an all-Wales remit for this chair.
Cytunaf. Yr wyf eisoes wedi trefnu trafodaethau â’r brifysgol a Chyngor Celfyddydau Cymru i ddatblygu cylch gwaith Cymru gyfan i’r gadair hon.
I am pleased to see some of the recommendations of ‘A Culture in Common’ being implemented. However, could you outline to the Assembly which of the report’s recommendations you intend to carry forward and which ones you do not? We are aware that when it comes to Subject Committee reviews, Ministers tend to cherry pick the recommendations that they like, while ignoring some of the more substantive ones.
Yr wyf yn falch o weld rhai o argymhellion ‘Diwylliant Cytûn’ yn cael eu gweithredu. Fodd bynnag, a allwch amlinellu i’r Cynullilad pa rai o argymhellion yr adroddiad yr ydych yn bwriadu eu gweithredu a pha rai nad ydych yn bwriadu eu gweithredu? Yr ydym yn ymwybodol, o ran adolygiadau Pwyllgor Pwnc, bod Gweinidogion yn tueddu i ddewis yr argymhellion yn maent yn eu hoffi, tra’n anwybyddu rhai o’r argymhellion mwy sylweddol.
In the case of ‘A Culture in Common’, there were over 100 recommendations and they were not prioritised. Therefore, taking them all forward on an equal basis at the same time is not possible. However, when the culture strategy is discussed in Committee in a few weeks’ time, you will see that a significant proportion of those recommendations are, in one way or another, encompassed in that strategy.
Yn achos ‘Diwylliant Cytûn’, yr oedd dros 100 o argymhellion a’r rheini heb eu blaenoriaethu. O ganlyniad, nid yw’n bosibl gweithredu pob un ohonynt ar sail gyfartal ar yr un pryd. Fodd bynnag, pan drafodir y strategaeth ddiwylliant yn y Pwyllgor ymhen rhai wythnosau, gwelwch fod cyfran sylweddol o’r argymhellion hynny wedi eu hymgorffori yn y strategaeth honno, mewn rhyw ffordd neu’i gilydd.
Cwestiynau i’r Gweinidog dros Faterion Gwledig
Questions to the Minister for Rural Affairs
Newidiadau i Daliadau Polisi Amaethyddol Cyffredin
Changes to Common Agricultural Policy Payments
Has the Minister made any assessments of the impact on rural employment of switching spending from CAP payments to support for a broader range of rural businesses? (OAQ13676)
A yw’r Gweinidog wedi gwneud unrhyw asesiadau o’r effaith ar gyflogaeth wledig, yn sgîl newid gwariant o daliadau polisi amaethyddol cyffredin i gefnogaeth i ystod ehangach o fusnesau gwledig? (OAQ13676)
Carwyn Jones The Minister for Rural Affairs spoken in English p. 13
Carwyn Jones Y Gweinidog dros Faterion Gwledig siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 13
You will be aware of the rural development plan and the money that will be made available through it to support rural employment. However, the scope for the Assembly to switch support from the common agricultural policy payments scheme is severely constrained by European Commission regulations, so such an assessment would be of limited value.
Byddwch yn ymwybodol o’r cynllun datblygu gwledig a’r arian a fydd ar gael ynddo i gefnogi cyflogaeth yng nghefn gwlad. Fodd bynnag, mae rheoliadau’r Comisiwn Ewropeaidd yn cyfyngu ar allu’r Cynulliad i drosglwyddo cefnogaeth o’r cynllun taliadau polisi amaethyddol cyffredin, felly ni fyddai llawer o werth i asesiad o’r fath.
Does the Minster agree that the current approach of paying subsidies to farmers is inherently self-defeating given that it distorts employment patterns, artificially boosts land, food and commodity prices and does little or nothing to encourage added value production? Does the Minster also agree that, if we are to spend large sums of money on rural areas, we should be spending it in a way that benefits not only landowners, but the whole community, given that the average capital value of a Welsh family farm is estimated to be £400,000? In view of the constraints on the Assembly that you mentioned, will you make representations to that effect to the UK Government and to the commission?
A gytuna’r Gweinidog fod y dull presennol o dalu cymorthdaliadau i ffermwyr yn hunandrechol yn ei hanfod o gofio ei fod yn gwyrdroi patrymau cyflogaeth, yn codi prisiau tir, bwyd a nwyddau mewn modd artiffisial ac nad yw’n gwneud braidd dim, os o gwbl, i annog cynhyrchiant â gwerth ychwanegol? A gytuna’r Gweinidog hefyd, os ydym am wario arian mawr ar ardaloedd gwledig, y dylem ei wario mewn ffordd sy’n fanteisiol nid yn unig i dirfeddianwyr ond i’r gymuned gyfan o gofio mai £400,000 ar gyfartaledd yw gwerth cyfalaf fferm deuluol Gymreig? O gofio’r cyfyngiadau ar y Cynulliad a grybwyllasoch, a wnewch chi sylwadau i’r perwyl hwnnw i Lywodraeth y DU ac i’r comisiwn?
Thank you for that observation. We must remember that farmers have been familiar with this system for some time and it will take time for them to adapt to a new one. The system will undoubtedly change and subsidies will change from being payments based on the number of animals. We must ensure that the transition is as smooth as possible. However, in time, we must also boost rural spending in other areas. You, quite rightly, bring this point before the Assembly. If I remember rightly, it was the Conservative Party that suggested in the 1980s that industries that were subsidised, such as mining, were uncompetitive and should be closed down. Now it has changed its tune.
Diolch ichi am y sylw hwnnw. Rhaid inni gofio bod ffermwyr wedi bod yn gyfarwydd â’r system hon ers peth amser ac fe gymer amser iddynt addasu i un newydd. Bydd y system yn anochel yn newid a bydd cymorthdaliadau yn newid o fod yn daliadau yn seiliedig ar nifer yr anifeiliaid. Rhaid inni sicrhau bod y newid mor llyfn â phosibl. Fodd bynnag, ymhen amser, rhaid inni hefyd gynyddu gwariant gwledig mewn meysydd eraill. Yr ydych yn dwyn y pwynt hwn gerbron y Cynulliad, ac mae hynny’n briodol. Os cofiaf yn iawn, y Blaid Geidwadol awgrymodd yn y 1980au fod diwydiannau a oedd yn cael cymorthdaliadau, fel gweithfeydd glo, yn anghystadleuol ac y dylid eu cau. Erbyn hyn mae wedi newid ei chân.
A gred y Gweinidog y dylid newid y ganran o’r gyllideb Ewropeaidd a gaiff ei gwario ar hyn o bryd ar y polisi amaethyddol cyffredin a datblygu gwledig?
Does the Minister believe that the proportion of European funding that is currently spent on the common agriculture policy and rural development should be altered?
Clywir y ddadl honno’n aml yn y comisiwn. Ar hyn o bryd, mae hi’n bwysicach sicrhau y caiff taliadau newydd y cynllun premiwm blynyddol defaid eu prosesu mewn pythefnos ac, o ganlyniad, y bydd ffermwyr Cymru yn derbyn mwy o arian o’r cynllun ac y byddant mewn sefyllfa lle nad ydynt yn dibynnu ar brisiau ansefydlog. Rhaid cofio y bydd y system gymhorthdaliadau yn newid dros y blynyddoedd nesaf ac y bydd y taliadau’n seiliedig ar ansawdd tir ffermio yn hytrach nag ar nifer yr anifeiliaid. Rhaid sicrhau na fydd ffermwyr Cymru ar eu colled.
That argument is often heard in the commission. It is currently more important to ensure that the new payments for the sheep annual premium scheme are processed in two weeks’ time and, as a result, that the farmers of Wales receive more money from the scheme and are not dependent on fluctuating prices. We must remember that the subsidy system will change over the next few years and that payments will be based on the quality of farm land rather than on the number of animals. We must ensure that the farmers of Wales do not lose out.
Nick Bourne The Leader of the Welsh Conservatives spoken in English p. 14
Nick Bourne Arweinydd Ceidwadwyr Cymru siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 14
We seem to be seeing the Labour Party’s true colours today. I will correct the Minister on one point, although he is not the minister for mining. The Secretary of State who closed the most mines was Tony Benn, who, when I last checked, was not a Conservative. Perhaps the Minister would like to disassociate himself from some of Lynne Neagle’s comments about the capital value of farms. Farms cannot be sold and farmers are going out of business throughout Wales. On CAP, what is the Minister doing to ensure, on behalf of Welsh farmers, that a Welsh voice will be heard in any CAP reform at a European level? We need to ensure that transitional arrangements are made for Welsh farmers and that they do not face an even bleaker future than they do at present.
Ymddengys ein bod yn gweld y Blaid Lafur fel y mae mewn gwirionedd heddiw. Cywiraf y Gweinidog ar un pwynt, er nad ef yw’r gweinidog dros y gweithfeydd glo. Tony Benn oedd yr Ysgrifennydd Gwladol a gaeodd y nifer fwyaf o weithfeydd glo a phan edrychais y tro diwethaf, nid Ceidwadwr mohono. Efallai yr hoffai’r Gweinidog ymddatgysylltu oddi wrth rai o sylwadau Lynne Neagle ynglŷn â gwerth cyfalaf ffermydd. Ni ellir gwerthu ffermydd ac mae ffermwyr yn mynd i’r wal ledled Cymru. O ran y polisi amaethyddol cyffredin, beth mae’r Gweinidog yn ei wneud i sicrhau, ar ran ffermwyr Cymru, y clywir llais Cymru mewn unrhyw ddiwygiad o’r polisi ar lefel Ewropeaidd? Mae angen inni sicrhau y gwneir trefniadau trosiannol i ffermwyr Cymru ac nad ydynt yn wynebu dyfodol hyd yn oed yn fwy llwm nag a wynebant ar hyn o bryd.
The price of lamb is increasing. You are right that it is difficult to release the capital value in farms. However, young farmers face difficulty in coming into farming because the price of land is so high. We need to address that. You are right, Nick, there is no Minister for mining—your Government made sure of that in the 1980s. That situation is not right. Your party often says to me that we should ban cheap foreign competition; we did not hear that in the 1980s. However, let us move on, Llywydd. As far as the common agricultural policy is concerned, I have monthly meetings with other territorial Ministers in which we decide what line to take in the European Agriculture Council, which meets a week later. The next meeting of Ministers is on 16 November and will decide on what line we will take on 20 November in the European Agriculture Council meeting.
Mae pris ŵyn yn codi. Yr ydych yn iawn i ddweud ei bod yn anodd rhyddhau gwerth cyfalaf mewn ffermydd. Fodd bynnag, mae’n anodd i ffermwyr ifanc ddechrau ffermio am fod pris tir mor uchel. Mae angen inni fynd i’r afael â hynny. Yr ydych yn gywir, Nick, nid oes Gweinidog dros weithfeydd glo—sicrhaodd eich Llywodraeth chi hynny yn y 1980au. Nid yw’r sefyllfa honno yn iawn. Mae’ch plaid yn aml yn dweud wrthyf y dylem wahardd cystadleuaeth rad o dramor; ni chlywsom hynny yn y 1980au. Fodd bynnag, symudwn ymlaen, Lywydd. O ran y polisi amaethyddol cyffredin, yr wyf yn cyfarfod yn fisol â Gweinidogion y tiriogaethau eraill lle yr ydym yn penderfynu ar ein safbwynt yn y Cyngor Amaethyddol Ewropeaidd, sy’n cyfarfod wythnos yn ddiweddarach. Mae cyfarfod nesaf y Gweinidogion ar 16 Tachwedd lle y byddwn yn penderfynu ar ein safbwynt yng nghyfarfod y Cyngor Amaethyddol Ewropeaidd ar 20 Tachwedd.
Taliadau Rheoli Datblygu
Development Control Charges
What steps is the Minister taking to follow through calls to support development control charges in line with his diversification policies? (OAQ13696)
Pa gamau y mae’r Gweinidog yn eu cymryd i fynd ar drywydd galwadau i gefnogi taliadau rheoli datblygu yn unol â’i bolisïau arallgyfeirio? (OAQ13696)
I will be making assistance available to farmers for planning consultancy advice associated with preparing planning applications for non-agricultural farm diversification projects as part of the Farming Connect initiative.
Byddaf yn sicrhau bod cymorth ar gael i ffermwyr gael cyngor gan ymgynghorwyr cynllunio ynghylch paratoi ceisiadau cynllunio ar gyfer prosiectau arallgyfeirio ar ffermydd nad ydynt yn ymwneud ag amaeth fel rhan o’r fenter Cyswllt Ffermio.
Does the Minister support the views of the Country Land and Business Association and other rural organisations that urge a more relaxed approach to development control in rural areas, to aid diversification, wealth and job creation, to encourage farmers to trade rather than depend on aid?
A gefnoga’r Gweinidog safbwynt y Gymdeithas Tir a Busnesau Cefn Gwlad a sefydliadau gwledig eraill sy’n annog ymagwedd llai llym tuag at reoli datblygu mewn ardaloedd gwledig, er mwyn cynorthwyo arallgyfeirio, creu cyfoeth a swyddi, ac annog ffermwyr i fasnachu yn hytrach na dibynnu ar gymorth?
We are currently considering that matter. We cannot have a one-size-fits-all situation in Wales. There are some parts of Wales where pressure to build on land is more intense than in others. We want to move forward with plans to ensure that it is easier for farmers to be able to diversify, yet not so easy that agricultural land is swallowed up by many buildings.
Yr ydym yn ystyried y mater ar hyn o bryd. Ni allwn gael un ateb i bopeth yng Nghymru. Mae rhannau o Gymru lle y mae’r pwysau i adeiladu ar dir yn llawer mwy nag mewn rhannau eraill. Yr ydym am fwrw ymlaen â’r cynlluniau i sicrhau ei bod yn haws i ffermwyr arallgyfeirio, ond heb fod mor hawdd fel y caiff tir amaethyddol ei lyncu gan lawer o adeiladau.
Cynllun Arallgyfeirio (Ymateb Cabinet)
Diversification Plan (Cabinet Response)
Would the Minister advise of any response from other Cabinet members to his farmers diversification plan? (OAQ13697)
A wnaiff y Gweinidog roi gwybod am unrhyw ymateb gan aelodau eraill o’r Cabinet ynghylch ei gynllun arallgyfeirio i ffermwyr? (OAQ13697)
By the farmers diversification plan, I take it you mean Farming Connect and the Agricultural and Rural Development Committee’s investigation into diversification. I discuss many issues with my Cabinet colleagues, and diversification is one of them.
Wrth gyfeirio at y cynllun arallgyfeirio i ffermwyr, cymeraf mai Cyswllt Ffermio ac ymchwiliad y Pwyllgor Amaethyddiaeth a Datblygu Gwledig i arallgyfeirio sydd gennych mewn golwg. Yr wyf yn trafod llawer o faterion â’m cyd-Aelodau yn y Cabinet, gan gynnwys arallgyfeirio.
In view of the warm statements on diversification, and the relaxed approach to development control charges, will the Minister encourage the Minister for Environment to make a clear statement on her intentions regarding this issue?
O ystyried y datganiadau gwresog ar arallgyfeirio a’r ymagwedd llai llym tuag at ffioedd rheoli datblygu, a fydd y Gweinidog yn annog y Gweinidog dros yr Amgylchedd i wneud datganiad clir ynglŷn â’i bwriadau yn hynny o beth?
The Minister for Environment and I work together on these issues and we will be seeking to make it easier for people to diversify, yet not so easy that planning control becomes meaningless.
Mae’r Gweinidog dros yr Amgylchedd a minnau yn cydweithio ar y materion hyn a byddwn yn ceisio sicrhau ei bod yn haws i bobl arallgyfeirio, ond eto nid mor hawdd nes bod rheolaeth gynllunio yn mynd yn ddiystyr.
Farmers most commonly diversify into tourism. Lave net salmon fishing is a rural activity in my constituency that benefits tourism and has tourist potential. Unfortunately this age-old part of local culture is threatened by proposed controls to conserve salmon stocks. As there is only a handful of these fishermen and they typically catch a salmon a year each, do you agree that common sense should prevail and they should not fall victim to bureaucracy run wild?
Mae ffermwyr, yn amlach na pheidio, yn arallgyfeirio i dwristiaeth. Ymhlith y gweithgareddau gwledig yn fy etholaeth mae pysgota eogiaid â rhwydi ‘lave’ sy’n denu twristiaid ac sydd â phosibiliadau o ran twristiaeth. Yn anffodus, mae’r hen draddodiad hwn yn yr ardal yn y fantol oherwydd y rheolaethau arfaethedig i gadw stociau o eogiaid. Gan mai dim ond llond dwrn o bysgotwyr o’r fath sydd ac mai un eog y flwyddyn yr un a ddaliant fel arfer, a gytunwch fod angen synnwyr cyffredin yn hyn o beth ac ni ddylent gael eu haberthu oherwydd biwrocratiaeth anystywallt?
I agree, John, that where there is, in effect, a cultural fishery, such as the seine net fisheries on the River Teifi and the coracle fisheries, which people do not make a living from, but which are nevertheless part of an important tradition, attract tourists and maintain a practice that has existed for thousands of years, I am sympathetic to any suggestion that those fisheries should keep going. You have promised to write to me on this matter, and I will consider it further.
Cytunaf, John, lle y ceir pysgodfeydd diwylliannol, i bob diben, megis y pysgodfeydd rhwydi sân ar Afon Teifi a’r pysgodfeydd cwrwgl, nad yw pobl yn ennill bywoliaeth ohonynt, ond sydd eto i gyd yn rhan o draddodiad pwysig, sy’n denu twristiaid ac yn cynnal arfer a arferid ers miloedd o flynyddoedd, fy mod yn cydymdeimlo â’r awgrym y dylai pysgodfeydd o’r fath barhau. Yr ydych wedi addo ysgrifennu ataf ar y mater hwn, ac fe’i hystyriaf ymhellach.
A wnaiff Carwyn dderbyn bod llawer o agweddau ar arallgyfeirio yn ymwneud â chyfrifoldebau sydd y tu allan i’w bortffolio: er enghraifft, twristiaeth, y cyfeiriwyd ati eiliad yn ôl, a datblygu busnesau bach yn gysylltiedig â ffermio? Yn y cyd-destun hwnnw, faint o gyfarfodydd y mae ef a’r Gweinidog Datblygu Economaidd wedi eu cynnal ar y cyd â’r undebau amaethyddol i sicrhau bod dealltwriaeth ar sut i symud yr agenda hon ymlaen?
Will Carwyn accept that many aspects of diversification are outside his portfolio: for example, tourism, which was mention a moment ago, and developing small businesses linked to farming? In that context, how many meetings has he and the Minister for Economic Development jointly held with the agriculture unions to ensure that understanding is reached on how to move this agenda forward?
Yr ydym am ddefnyddio Cyswllt Ffermio i symud yr agenda hon ymlaen. Mae ffermwyr wedi sôn wrthyf dros y misoedd diwethaf am eu hawydd i arallgyfeirio ond eu bod yn awyddus i ddod o hyd i gymorth i wneud hynny. Dyna pam yr ydym wedi sefydlu Cyswllt Ffermio. Bydd ffermwyr yn cael cyngor busnes, a chyngor ynghylch sut i arallgyfeirio yn y dyfodol, drwy Cyswllt Ffermio. Yr ydym am sicrhau bod ffermwyr yn teimlo yn rhan o’r broses honno. Bydd Cyswllt Ffermio nid yn unig yn helpu ffermio ond yn cynorthwyo ffermwyr i fanteisio ar feysydd eraill yn yr economi.
We want to use Farming Connect to move this agenda forward. Farmers have told me in recent months of their desire to diversify but they want assistance to help them to do so. That is why we have established Farming Connect. Farmers will receive business advice, and advice on how to diversify in future, via Farming Connect. We want to ensure that farmers feel part of that process. Farming Connect will not only help farming but assist farmers to gain access to other sectors of the economy.
Fforwm Coetiroedd i Gymru
Woodlands Forum for Wales
Will the Minister make a statement on the establishment of a woodlands forum for Wales? (OAQ13684)
A wnaiff y Gweinidog datganiad ar sefydlu fforwm coetiroedd i Gymru? (OAQ13684)
When I launched the National Assembly strategy for trees and woodlands in July, I also announced that we would set up a woodlands forum for Wales to help implement and monitor outcomes from the strategy. We have invited 30 bodies in Wales to nominate individuals as members of the forum, and I will chair the first meeting later this month. The forum will monitor and review the progress of implementing the strategy’s objectives by means of indicators and milestones to measure achievements. I will report its progress to the National Assembly.
Pan gyflwynais strategaeth coed a choetiroedd y Cynulliad Cenedlaethol ym mis Gorffennaf, cyhoeddais hefyd y byddem yn sefydlu fforwm coetiroedd i Gymru i helpu i weithredu a monitro canlyniadau’r strategaeth. Gwahoddwyd 30 o gyrff yng Nghymru i enwebu unigolion fel aelodau’r fforwm, a byddaf yn cadeirio’r cyfarfod cyntaf yn ddiweddarach y mis hwn. Bydd y fforwm yn monitro ac yn adolygu’r cynnydd a wneir wrth weithredu amcanion y strategaeth drwy gyfrwng dangosyddion a cherrig milltir i fesur cyflawniadau. Byddaf yn cyflwyno adroddiadau ar ei waith i’r Cynulliad Cenedlaethol.
I am sure that you agree that the huge potential of our woodlands is untapped. There are economic and social benefits to be gained, particularly in our most deprived communities where there are beautiful woodlands. Woodlands can provide recreational activities, job opportunities and health benefits. Will you ensure that the woodlands forum makes the most of all these opportunities, and that our woodlands are accessible to all?
Yr wyf yn siŵr y cytunwch nad ydym yn manteisio i’r eithaf ar y posibiliadau enfawr sydd gan ein coetiroedd. Mae iddynt fanteision economaidd a chymdeithasol, yn arbennig o ran ein cymunedau mwyaf difreintiedig lle ceir coetiroedd hardd. Gall coetiroedd gynnig gweithgareddau hamdden, cyfleoedd gwaith a buddiannau o ran iechyd. A wnewch chi sicrhau bod y fforwm coetiroedd yn manteisio i’r eithaf ar y cyfleoedd hyn, a bod modd i bawb ddefnyddio ein coetiroedd?
You are right; some of the best woodlands in Wales are closest to some of the more deprived communities. You will know from the launch at Afan Argoed in the summer that there is strong feeling with regard to developing woodlands as a resource for those communities. The Cydcoed scheme, for example, is an Objective 1 scheme that allows communities to develop woodlands for local public access. It is aimed at communities that are identified on the Assembly’s index of multiple deprivation as being the most deprived, and those communities with no access to community woodlands. We must get away from the idea that forestry is only about making money—although that is an important part of it—and recognise that our forests are resources for everyone, especially those people in our more deprived communities.
Yr ydych yn llygad eich lle; mae rhai o’r coetiroedd gorau yng Nghymru yng nghyffiniau rhai o’r cymunedau mwyaf difreintiedig. Gwyddoch, yn sgîl y lansio yn Afan Argoed yn ystod yr haf, fod teimlad cryf y dylid datblygu coetiroedd fel adnodd i’r cymunedau hynny. Mae cynllun Cydcoed, er enghraifft yn gynllun Amcan 1 sy’n galluogi cymunedau i ddatblygu coetiroedd at ddefnydd y cyhoedd yn lleol. Mae wedi ei anelu at gymunedau sydd wedi’u nodi ar fynegrif amddifadedd lluosog y Cynulliad fel y cymunedau mwyaf difreintiedig, a’r cymunedau hynny nad oes ganddynt fynediad i goetiroedd cymunedol. Rhaid inni droi oddi wrth y syniad mai gwneud arian yw unig ddiben coedwigaeth—er bod hynny’n rhan bwysig ohoni—a chydnabod bod ein coedwigoedd yn adnoddau i bawb, yn arbennig y rhai sydd yn ein cymunedau mwyaf difreintiedig.
Byddwn yn trafod y strategaeth ymhellach ymlaen, ac mae’n ddogfen ddefnyddiol. Fodd bynnag, heb amserlen, targedau a rhaglen weithredu, mae perygl y bydd y strategaeth yn colli llawer o’i grym. A fydd y fforwm yn gyfrifol am ddatblygu rhaglen weithredu a thargedu, fel ein bod yn gweld yn glir pryd y cyflawnir dyheadau’r strategaeth?
We will discuss the strategy later, and it is a useful document. However, without a timetable, targets and an action plan, there is a danger that the strategy will lose a great deal of its effectiveness. Will the forum be responsible for developing a programme of action and targeting, so that we see clearly when the strategy’s aims will be achieved?
Mater i’r fforwm fydd hynny. Ar hyn o bryd, strategaeth yn unig ydyw, heb raglen dargedu, ac mae hynny’n fwriadol. Un o’r pethau y gall y fforwm ei ystyried yw pa un ai ydyw am gael cyfeiriad a thargedau i anelu atynt, ynteu a fydd y fforwm am fonitro’r sefyllfa fel y mae. Penderfyniad y fforwm fydd hynny.
That will be a matter for the forum. At present, it is only a strategy, without a target programme, and that is deliberate. One of the things that the forum can consider is whether it wants to set a direction and targets to aim for, or whether it will want to monitor the situation as it stands. That will be the forum’s decision.
I am pleased that you mentioned Afan Argoed Country Park, Carwyn, which is in the Upper Afan Valley in my constituency. It has one of the most exciting intermediate grade mountain biking tracks in the United Kingdom. Do you agree that one of the Forestry Commission’s challenges, even in Afan Argoed, is that the woodlands are not always organically linked to the communities that are most adjacent to them? People arrive in their cars, walk around and get back in their cars and leave. For the vast majority of local people, there are no real economic benefits.
Yr wyf yn falch ichi sôn, Carwyn, am Barc Gwledig Afan Argoed sydd ym mhen uchaf Cwm Afan yn fy etholaeth i. Mae ganddo un o’r traciau beicio mynydd canolradd mwyaf cyffrous yn y Deyrnas Unedig. A gytunwch mai un o heriau’r Comisiwn Coedwigaeth, hyd yn oed yn Afan Argoed, yw’r ffaith nad yw coetiroedd bob amser wedi’u cysylltu’n organig â’r cymunedau sydd agosaf atynt? Mae pobl yn cyrraedd yno yn eu ceir, yn cerdded o amgylch ac yna dychwelyd i’w ceir a gadael. I’r mwyafrif llethol o’r bobl leol, nid oes unrhyw fuddiannau economaidd gwirioneddol.
I can assure you, Brian, that I have seen the cycle track; I have not been on it, which is a shame. As far as the Afan Valley is concerned, we must do more. Cydcoed is designed to do that in part through linking local communities with the resources in their areas. Our woodlands can be magnets for investment for local communities. You only have to look at Coed-y-Brenin, where a great deal of money comes in as a result of what is available there. We must do the same with Afan Argoed. It can be difficult for people to access, it is possible to go over the mountain from Maesteg on foot to access it—I have done that—but we must ensure that the community feels that the woodlands are part of the community and not a resource for someone else to enjoy.
Gallaf roi sicrwydd ichi, Brian, fy mod wedi gweld y trac beicio; nid wyf wedi bod arno, gwaetha’r modd. O ran Cwm Afan, rhaid inni wneud mwy. Mae Cydcoed wedi’i gynllunio i wneud hynny i raddau drwy gysylltu cymunedau lleol â’r adnoddau sydd yn eu hardal. Gall ein coetiroedd ddenu buddsoddiad at y cymunedau lleol. Edrychwch ar Goed-y-Brenin, lle y daw cryn dipyn o arian i mewn i’r ardal o ganlyniad i’r hyn sydd ar gael yno. Rhaid inni wneud yr un peth yn Afan Argoed. Gall fod yn anodd i bobl ei gyrraedd, gellir ei gyrraedd drwy gerdded dros y mynydd o Faesteg—yr wyf wneud gwneud hynny—ond rhaid inni sicrhau bod y gymuned yn teimlo bod y coetiroedd yn rhan o’r gymuned ac nid yn adnodd y mae pobl eraill yn ei fwynhau.
Mynediad i Dir Gofal
Access to Tir Gofal
Will the Minister make a statement on access to Tir Gofal? (OAQ13663)
A wnaiff y Gweinidog ddatganiad ar fynediad i Dir Gofal? (OAQ13663)
I will shortly be seeking European approval on a number of modifications to the rural development plan. These will include measures designed to make it easier for a wider range of farms to access Tir Gofal, for example, mixed farms and those owned by young farmers and farmers prepared to introduce a limited amount of arable cropping into their livestock systems. However, we must keep a close eye on this, as I mentioned in yesterday’s Agriculture and Rural Development Committee. If there are other things that can be done to improve access, they will be considered seriously.
Byddaf yn ceisio am gymeradwyaeth gan yr Undeb Ewropeaidd ar nifer o newidiadau i’r cynllun datblygu gwledig cyn bo hir. Ymhlith y rhain bydd mesurau sydd â’r nod o sicrhau ei bod yn haws i ystod ehangach o ffermydd gael mynediad i Dir Gofal, er enghraifft, ffermydd cymysg a ffermydd o dan berchenogaeth ffermwyr ifanc a ffermwyr sy’n barod i gyflwyno rhywfaint o gnydau âr i’w systemau da byw. Fodd bynnag, rhaid inni gadw llygad barcud ar hyn, fel y crybwyllais yn y Pwyllgor Amaethyddiaeth a Datblygu Gwledig ddoe. Os oes pethau eraill y gellir eu gwneud i wella mynediad, cânt eu hystyried o ddifrif.
The biggest problem is that we need a great deal of funding to have access. However, one of the things that was raised in the Committee yesterday was access of all types of farming to Tir Gofal. Following the pilot schemes, it was noticed that when people were applying for their five-year renewals, certain farms, particularly dairy farms, were not scoring sufficient points. They would have to revert part of their land back to flooded areas, or encourage tree growth, or other such measures. We must balance commercial and environmental farming, to ensure that we do not end up as park keepers. How can we possibly make the schemes accessible to all types of farming?
Y broblem fwyaf yw bod angen cryn dipyn o arian arnom i gael mynediad. Fodd bynnag, un o’r pethau a godwyd yn y Pwyllgor ddoe oedd rhoi mynediad i bob math o ffermio i Dir Gofal. Yn dilyn y cynlluniau peilot, sylwyd nad oedd rhai ffermydd, yn arbennig ffermydd llaeth, yn sgorio digon o bwyntiau wrth wneud cais am adnewyddu eu haelodaeth am bum mlynedd. Byddai’n rhaid iddynt droi rhan o’u tir yn ardaloedd dan ddŵr unwaith eto, neu hybu tyfiant coed, neu fesurau eraill. Rhaid inni gydbwyso ffermio masnachol a ffermio amgylcheddol, er mwyn sicrhau nad ceidwaid parciau fyddwn ni yn y dyfodol. Sut yn y byd y gallwn sicrhau bod y cynllun ar gael i bob math o ffermio?
No-one wants to see farmers turned into park keepers. The idea behind Tir Gofal is that it provides a compensation, if you like, for more environmentally sensitive farming. Due to the system’s current structure, an agri-environmental scheme must take that into account. I have made these points on several occasions. Two dilemmas must be faced regarding an existing agri-environmental scheme. Do we go either for a scheme that is judged purely on the amount of land brought into it, or one judged on the number of intensively-worked farms brought into it? That is why the Tir Gofal stocktake took place, and we will now seek to improve access to the scheme by working on the stocktake’s findings.
Nid oes neb am weld ffermwyr yn mynd yn geidwaid parciau. Syniad Tir Gofal yw ei fod yn rhoi iawndal, os mynnwch, ar gyfer ffermio sy’n fwy sensitif i’r amgylchedd. Oherwydd strwythur presennol y system, y mae’n rhaid i gynllun amaeth-amgylchedd ystyried hynny. Gwneuthum y pwyntiau hyn sawl gwaith yn y gorffennol. Mae dwy broblem y mae’n rhaid eu hwynebu o ran y cynllun amaeth-amgylchedd presennol. A ydym yn mynd ar drywydd cynllun a fernir dim ond yn ôl maint y tir a ddaw yn rhan ohono, neu gynllun a fernir yn ôl nifer y ffermydd amaeth dwys sy’n dod yn rhan ohono? Dyna pam y cloriannwyd cynllun Tir Gofal, ac y byddwn yn ceisio gwella mynediad i’r cynllun drwy weithio ar ganfyddiadau’r adroddiad cloriannu.
Tir Gofal is an innovative scheme that encourages access to the countryside. With foot and mouth disease risk assessments now allowing a welcome freedom to ramble, ride a horse or walk a dog, can the Minister advise on why such a liberty has not been extended to the Welsh rural community, to protect its livestock and its ability to control vermin? When will a joint statement from the Assembly and the Department for Environment, Food and Rural Affairs be made about the resumption of hunting?
Mae Tir Gofal yn gynllun arloesol sy’n hybu mynediad i gefn gwlad. Gan fod rhyddid bellach, sydd i’w groesawu, i gerdded, marchogaeth neu gerdded â chŵn yn sgîl yr asesiadau risg o glwy’r traed a’r genau, a all y Gweinidog roi gwybod inni pam nad estynnir yr un rhyddid i bobl cefn gwlad Cymru, i ddiogelu eu da byw a’u gallu i reoli fermin? Pryd y bydd y Cynulliad ac Adran yr Amgylchedd, Bwyd a Materion Gwledig yn gwneud datganiad ar y cyd ynglŷn â chaniatáu hela unwaith eto?
That was an innovative way of asking your urgent question, as you were not otherwise able to ask it, but I will answer it.
Dyna ffordd arloesol o ofyn eich cwestiwn brys, gan nad oed modd ichi ei ofyn fel arall, ond fe’i hatebaf.
Dafydd Elis-Thomas The Presiding Officer spoken in English p. 21
Dafydd Elis-Thomas Y Llywydd siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 21
Order. There is no urgent question. That was a supplementary question, and it was in order.
Trefn. Nid oes cwestiwn brys. Cwestiwn atodol ydoedd, ac yr oedd mewn trefn.
You are right, Llywydd. Nevertheless, it was a clever way of putting it. The simple answer is that deciding to resume hunting in Wales is a joint function of the National Assembly and DEFRA. We await DEFRA’s views on how this should be taken forward. As far as we are concerned, we are ready to proceed.
Yr ydych yn gywir, Lywydd. Eto i gyd, yr oedd yn ffordd glyfar o ofyn y cwestiwn. Yr ateb syml yw bod y penderfyniad i ganiatáu hela yng Nghymru yn swyddogaeth ar y cyd rhwng y Cynulliad Cenedlaethol ac Adran yr Amgylchedd, Bwyd a Materion Gwledig. Yr ydym yn disgwyl barn yr Adran ar y ffordd y dylid gweithredu ar hyn. O’n tu ni, yr ydym yn barod i weithredu.
Ailstrwythuro’r Economi Wledig
Restructuring the Rural Economy
What policy initiatives is the Minister pursuing to facilitate the restructuring of the rural economy in Wales? (OAQ13669)
Pa fentrau polisi y mae’r Gweinidog mynd ar eu trywydd er mwyn hwyluso ailstrwythuro’r economi gwledig yng Nghymru? (OAQ13669)
The Assembly has published plans in relation to Objective 1 and the rural development plan to secure investment in rural businesses in Wales, and to help sustain rural communities. The ‘Plan for Wales 2001’ and the draft national economic development strategy also underline our commitment to supporting rural Wales. On 21 November, I will publish my strategy for the future of farming in Wales. Measures are currently being implemented to strengthen the food-processing sector under the agri-food strategy which is being led by the Welsh Development Agency.
Mae’r Cynulliad wedi cyhoeddi cynlluniau ynglŷn ag Amcan 1 a’r cynllun datblygu gwledig i sicrhau buddsoddiad mewn busnesau gwledig yng Nghymru, ac i helpu i gynnal cymunedau gwledig. Mae ‘Cynllun i Gymru 2001’ a’r strategaeth datblygu economaidd ddrafft hefyd yn tanlinellu ein hymrwymiad i gefnogi Cymru wledig. Ar 21 Tachwedd, byddaf yn cyhoeddi fy strategaeth ar gyfer dyfodol ffermio yng Nghymru. Mae mesurau yn cael eu rhoi ar waith ar hyn o bryd i atgyfnerthu’r sector prosesu bwyd o dan y strategaeth bwyd-amaeth o dan arweiniad Awdurdod Datblygu Cymru.
Do you believe that auction houses will play a key role in restructuring the rural economy? Do you agree that your comments on auction houses and livestock houses were ill-informed, misjudged and have caused anger in the industry?
A gredwch y bydd gan dai arwerthu rôl allweddol wrth ailstrwythuro’r economi wledig? A gytunwch i’ch sylwadau ar dai arwerthu a thai da byw ddangos diffyg gwybodaeth, diffyg barn ac iddynt ddigio pobl yn y diwydiant?
That has only happened because people have been deliberately misled on what was said. There is a future for livestock auctions, where there is a future for selling store cattle—[CONSERVATIVE ASSEMBLY MEMBERS: ‘Oh.’] If you had listened to what was said last week, you might have learned something.
Dim ond am fod pobl wedi cael eu camarwain yn fwriadol ynglŷn â’r hyn a ddywedwyd y mae hynny wedi digwydd. Mae dyfodol i arwerthiannau da byw, lle y mae dyfodol i werthu da byw storfa—[AELODAU CEIDWADOL O’R CYNULLIAD: ‘O.’] Pe baech wedi gwrando ar yr hyn a ddywedwyd yr wythnos diwethaf, byddech wedi dysgu rhywbeth.
There is no point saying that things should always stay the same; no point claiming ‘no change’ repeatedly. There must be change. There is a future for livestock auctions, but it is not a matter of saying that it has always been that way, therefore it must stay that way. Ultimately, I am interested in ensuring that farmers get the best price that they can.
Nid oes diben dweud y dylai pethau aros yr un peth am byth: nid oes diben mynnu ‘dim newid’ o hyd. Rhaid newid. Mae dyfodol i arwerthiannau da byw, ond nid mater o ddweud mai felly y bu pethau erioed, a rhaid iddynt aros yn ddigyfnewid ydyw. Yn y pen draw, yr hyn sydd o ddiddordeb i mi yw sicrhau bod ffermwyr yn cael y pris gorau posibl.
Ieuan Wyn Jones Arweinydd yr Wrthblaid siaradwyd yn Gymraeg t. 22
Ieuan Wyn Jones The Leader of the Opposition spoken in Welsh p. 22
Mae’n debyg felly, Weinidog, eich bod yn derbyn mai un o’r pethau amlycaf y gallwn ei wneud i hybu’r economi wledig yw agor y marchnadoedd sydd wedi eu cau i ffermwyr, yn sgîl clwy’r traed a’r genau. Yr ydym i gyd yn croesawu penderfyniad pwyllgor milfeddygon y Comisiwn Ewropeaidd, i ailagor marchnadoedd cig oen mewn rhannau o Gymru. Caiff hynny ei gadarnhau, o bosibl, fis nesaf.
It seems therefore, Minister, that you accept that one of the most obvious things that we could do to boost the rural economy would be to open those markets that were closed to farmers, in the wake of foot and mouth disease. We all welcome the European Commission veterinary committee’s decision to ensure that lamb markets in parts of Wales are reopened. That may be confirmed next month.
Mae pryder gwirioneddol ymhlith ffermwyr, a hyderaf eich bod yn derbyn, yn dilyn pwynt Jonathan Morgan, na ddylai dim byd rwystro ailagor y marchnadoedd da byw. Gwn y cawn drafodaeth ar y mater hwn heddiw, ond pwysleisiaf fod teimlad cryf yn y diwydiant amaeth y dylech ddod â dyddiad ailagor y marchnadoedd ymlaen o’r dyddiad yn y flwyddyn nesaf y buoch yn ei awgrymu yn y wasg a’r Pwyllgor Amaethyddiaeth a Datblygu Gwledig.
There is real concern among farmers, and I am sure that you accept, following Jonathan Morgan’s point, that nothing should prevent the reopening of livestock markets. I know that we will discuss this issue today, but I emphasise that there is a strong feeling in the agriculture industry that you should bring forward the date for reopening the markets from the date next year that you have suggested in the press and the Agriculture and Rural Development Committee.
Bydd y marchnadoedd yn ailagor—mae’n rhaid iddynt—ond nid oes gan y Cynulliad y pŵer i’w hailagor. Ni all y Cynulliad gymryd y penderfyniad hwnnw. Yr ydym yn ymwybodol o’r drafodaeth ac mae’r Cynulliad i gyd yn gytûn fod yn rhaid cael pwerau o’r fath iddo ei hunan. [AELODAU CEIDWADOL O’R CYNULLIAD: ‘Clywch, clywch.’] Dywedais hynny ym mis Gorffennaf, felly nid yw’n hollol newydd, ac yr wyf yn ddiolchgar fod y Cynulliad a Phlaid Cymru wedi cefnogi’r hyn a ddywedais bryd hynny.
The markets will reopen—they must—but the Assembly does not have the power to reopen them. The Assembly cannot take that decision. We are aware of the discussion, and the whole Assembly is agreed that it must have such powers for itself. [PLAID CYMRU ASSEMBLY MEMBERS: ‘Hear, hear.’] I said so in July, so it is not completely new, and I am grateful that the Assembly and Plaid Cymru supported what I said then.
Mae pwynt difrifol yma hefyd: yn 1967, ailgydiodd y clwyf ar ôl i’r marchnadoedd ailagor, ac mae’n rhaid inni fod yn ofalus cyn iddynt ailagor. Beth a ddigwyddai, er enghraifft, pe bai’r clwyf yn ailymddangos mewn marchnad? Pwy fyddai ar fai? Pe bai arwydd o’r clwyf mewn marchnad yng Nghymru, byddai allforio’n dod i ben ar unwaith. Mae gormod yn y fantol ar hyn o bryd. Barn gref y milfeddygon yw ei bod ychydig yn rhy gynnar.
There is also a serious point here: in 1967 the disease re-emerged after the markets reopened, and we must take all necessary precautions before they reopen. What would happen, for example, if the disease were to reappear in a market? Who would be to blame? If there were any sign of the disease in a market in Wales, exports would stop immediately. At the moment, there is too much at stake. The firm opinion of the vets is that it is somewhat too early.
Fodd bynnag, gobeithiwn weld—er nad fy mhenderfyniad i mohono—y marchnadoedd yn ailagor cyn gynted ag y gallant, yn gynnar yn y flwyddyn newydd. Mae Adran yr Amgylchedd, Bwyd a Materion Gwledig wedi dweud bod y marchnadoedd yn gorfod aros ar gau tan ddiwedd y flwyddyn. Gobeithiwn eu gweld yn ailagor yn fuan ar ôl hynny.
However, I would hope to see—although it is not my decision—the markets reopening as soon as possible in the new year. The Department of the Environment, Food and Rural Affairs have stated that the markets must remain closed until the end of the year. I would hope to see them reopen soon after that.
Cwestiynau i’r Trefnydd
Questions to the Minister for Assembly Business
Cyfnewidfeydd Ffôn gydag ADSL
Telephone Exchanges Offering ADSL
Erbyn pa ddyddiad mae’r Llywodraeth yn disgwyl y bydd y nifer o gyfnewidfeydd ffôn yng Nghymru a fydd gydag ADSL dros 90 y cant? (OAQ13706)
By what date does the Government expect the number of telephone exchanges in Wales offering ADSL to reach 90 per cent? (OAQ13706)
Andrew Davies The Member for Assembly Business spoken in English p. 23
Andrew Davies Y Trefnydd siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 23
The timing and rate of the roll-out of ADSL to exchanges in Wales, and across the rest of the UK, it a commercial matter for the telecommunications companies and is therefore dependent on market forces. The Assembly, however, recognises that market forces do not always deliver and has therefore supported the Llwybr/Pathway Strand 6 project which ensured that ADSL was rolled out in 10 rural exchanges in mid Wales. Also, the market has delivered ADSL to Cardiff, Newport, Swansea, Wrexham, Neath Port Talbot, Bridgend, Llanelli, Caerphilly and Porthcawl.
Mater masnachol i’r cwmnïau telathrebu yw amseriad y broses o gyflwyno ADSL mewn cyfnewidfeydd yng Nghymru ac ar draws gweddill y DU, ynghyd â pha mor gyflym y caiff ei gyflwyno ac felly mae’n dibynnu ar rymoedd y farchnad. Fodd bynnag, mae’r Cynulliad yn cydnabod nad yw grymoedd y farchnad yn cyflawni bob amser ac felly mae wedi cefnogi prosiect Llinyn 6 Llwybr a sicrhaodd i ADSL gael ei gyflwyno i 10 o gyfnewidfeydd gwledig yn y Canolbarth. Mae’r farchnad hefyd wedi cyflwyno ADSL i Gaerdydd, Casnewydd, Abertawe, Wrecsam, Caerffili a Phorthcawl.
Mae’n hollol amlwg nad yw’r farchnad yn cyflawni ar hyn o bryd. Yn ôl adroddiad Llywodraeth y Deyrnas Gyfunol, UK Online, dyma fydd ffigurau mynediad i’r band llydan erbyn 2003: Llundain, 100 y cant; Gogledd Iwerddon, 95 y cant; yr Alban, 80 y cant; a Chymru, 55 y cant. Sut y mae’r Gweinidog yn bwriadu sicrhau bod y sefyllfa arswydus honno yn cael ei chywiro a’r bwlch yn cael ei gau, a thros ba gyfnod y mae’n gobeithio gwneud hynny?
It is completely obvious that the market is not delivering at the moment. According to the United Kingdom Government’s UK Online report, the figures for broadband access by 2003 will be: London, 100 per cent; Northern Ireland, 95 per cent; Scotland, 80 per cent; and Wales, 55 per cent. How does the Minister intend to ensure that that appalling situation is rectified and the divide is bridged, and over what timescale does he hope to do that?
Those figures confirm my point that market forces often do not, and in this case clearly cannot, satisfy the demand for broadband throughout Wales. That is why, two weeks ago, I made the announcement of £18.4 million to develop a broadband infrastructure through a lifelong learning network.
Mae’r ffigurau hynny yn ategu fy mhwynt nad yw grymoedd y farchnad yn aml yn ateb y gofyn am fand llydan ledled Cymru, ac yn yr achos hwn mae’n amlwg nad ydynt yn gallu ateb y gofyn. Dyna pam y cyhoeddais, bythefnos yn ôl, fod £18.4 miliwn ar gael i ddatblygu seilwaith band llydan drwy rwydwaith dysgu gydol oes.
In addition, the Welsh Development Agency commissioned a report by Analysys Consulting Limited on the rollout of broadband in Wales. As I have said in earlier statements and answers, we are working closely with the WDA on the implementation plan. This is the top priority of the ‘Cymru Ar-lein’ information communications technology strategy, which was approved in July. The Cabinet is committed to delivering broadband access to all communities in Wales, by a variety of means.
Yn ogystal, comisiynodd Awdurdod Datblygu Cymru adroddiad gan Analysys Consulting Limited ar y broses o gyflwyno band llydan yng Nghymru. Fel y dywedais mewn datganiadau ac atebion cynharach, yr ydym yn cydweithio’n agos â’r WDA ar gynllun gweithredu. Mae hyn yn un o flaenoriaethau pennaf strategaeth technoleg gwybodaeth a chyfathrebu ‘Cymru Ar-lein’, a gymeradwywyd ym mis Gorffennaf. Mae’r Cabinet yn ymrwymedig i sicrhau bod band llydan ar gael i bob cymuned yng Nghymru, drwy amryw o ddulliau.
Are you aware of the problems of access at Parc Menai business park? The information on the BT website is almost useless. When businesses enter their numbers, they are told that they cannot get ADSL because they are on the Port Dinorwic exchange. There are other telephone exchanges, but the fact that few companies can afford broadband links on leased lines, which cost thousands of pounds, does not help the smaller outfits which cannot justify that sort of money. What will you do to ensure that the right information is provided so that small businesses can access the services at an affordable price?
A ydych yn ymwybodol o’r problemau o ran mynediad ym mharc busnes Parc Menai? Mae’r wybodaeth ar wefan BT yn ddiwerth bron. Pan fo busnesau yn nodi eu rhifau, dywedir wrthynt na allant gael ADSL am eu bod ar gyfnewidfa Felinheli. Mae cyfnewidfeydd ffôn eraill, ond nid yw’r ffaith mai dim ond nifer fach o gwmnïau sy’n gallu fforddio cysylltiadau band llydan ar linellau ar brydles, sy’n costio miloedd o bunnau, fawr o gymorth i gwmnïau llai na allant gyfiawnhau gwario symiau o’r fath. Beth a wnewch i sicrhau y caiff yr wybodaeth gywir ei darparu fel y gall busnesau bach ddefnyddio’r gwasanaethau am bris rhesymol?
In some ways, you back my point. Market forces cannot, or find it difficult to, deliver at this stage. As you said, leased lines are prohibitively expensive for small companies. That is why our recent announcement about the lifelong learning network—the broadband infrastructure that links all local authorities, based on the Wales network, Welsh Networking Limited, the successor to the former Metropolitan Area Network—will help provide surplus capacity in areas such as Parc Menai. I have visited Parc Menai and seen what is available there as the Member for Caernarfon knows. The University of Wales, Bangor has undertaken exciting work. There may be surplus capacity available through the WNL network, which we could possibly work through the Welsh Development Agency and the business parks to provide extra capacity for small companies.
Ar rai agweddau, yr ydych yn ategu fy mhwynt. Ni all grymoedd y farchnad gyflawni ar hyn o bryd neu mae’n anodd iddynt gyflawni. Fel y dywedasoch, mae llinellau ar brydles yn afresymol o ddrud i gwmnïau bach. Dyna pam y bydd ein cyhoeddiad diweddar ar y rhwydwaith dysgu gydol oes—y seilwaith band llydan sy’n cysylltu pob awdurdod lleol, yn seiliedig ar rwydwaith Cymru, sef Welsh Networking Limited, y rhwydwaith olynol i’r hen Rwydwaith ar gyfer yr Ardal Fetropolitanaidd—yn helpu i ddarparu capasiti dros ben mewn ardaloedd megis Parc Menai. Yr wyf wedi ymweld â Pharc Menai ac wedi gweld yr hyn sydd ar gael fel y gŵyr yr Aelod dros Gaernarfon. Mae Prifysgol Cymru, Bangor wedi gwneud gwaith cyffrous. Efallai y bydd capasiti dros ben ar gael drwy rwydwaith WNL ac efallai y bydd modd inni weithio drwy Awdurdod Datblygu Cymru a’r parciau busnes i ddarparu capasiti ychwanegol i gwmnïau bach.
Gwefannau Cymunedol yng Nghymru
Community Websites in Wales
In his role as e-commerce Minister, what discussions has the Minister had with community-based groups to set up and maintain community websites in Wales? (OAQ13719)
Yn rhinwedd ei rôl fel y Gweinidog e-fasnach, pa drafodaethau y mae’r Trefnydd wedi’u cael gyda grwpiau cymunedol ynghylch sefydlu a chynnal gwefannau cymunedol yng Nghymru?
I know that you have a personal interest in the Neyland Town Council website. During and since the consultation on the information and communications technology strategy, I have met a variety of community groups to discuss their access to, and use of, ICT, including the development of community websites. Earlier this year, I travelled to mid and north Wales, and visited the Networked Village project in Penrhyndeudraeth where I spoke to individuals and community groups. This project has given local people the skills and resources to create and maintain their own community website, among other benefits.
Gwn fod gennych ddiddordeb personol yng ngwefan Cyngor Tref Neyland. Yn ystod yr ymgynghoriad ar y strategaeth technoleg gwybodaeth a chyfathrebu ac ers hynny, yr wyf wedi cwrdd ag amrywiaeth o grwpiau cymunedol i drafod eu mynediad i TGCh a’r defnydd a wnânt ohoni, yn cynnwys datblygu gwefannau cymunedol. Yn gynharach eleni, teithiais i’r canolbarth a’r gogledd, gan ymweld â phrosiect y Pentref Rhwydweithiol ym Mhenrhyndeudraeth lle y siaradais ag unigolion a grwpiau cymunedol. Mae’r prosiect hwn wedi rhoi’r sgiliau a’r adnoddau i bobl leol greu a chynnal eu gwefannau cymunedol eu hunain, ymhlith manteision eraill.
I thank you for mentioning the Neyland website, which, as you know, is being used as a model throughout Wales. However, funding is a problem. There is support for the website’s tourism and business sections, but not for the community section, which covers vital issues such as health, jobs, transport and local organisations. What sources of funding are available for developing community websites, which potentially play a crucial role in regenerating local communities?
Diolch ichi am gyfeirio at wefan Neyland, a ddefnyddir fel model ledled Cymru, fel y gwyddoch. Fodd bynnag, mae problem o ran ariannu. Mae cefnogaeth i adrannau’r wefan sy’n ymwneud â thwristiaeth a busnes, ond nid i’r adran gymunedol, sy’n cwmpasu materion hollbwysig megis iechyd, swyddi, trafnidiaeth a sefydliadau lleol. Pa ffynonellau arian sydd ar gael i ddatblygu gwefannau cymunedol, a all chwarae rôl hanfodol wrth adfywio cymunedau lleol?
There is a variety of funding sources. I refer again to the announcement I made last week about our plans to work with local authorities to provide points of presence in each local authority in Wales. These would be community resources that the local authorities could use in conjunction with, for example, community groups such as the Neyland Town Council. There is also the e-Communities programme, which is worth about £25 million, and is being developed by the WDA under the European structural fund programme. It will be working with 100 deprived communities across Wales, mainly from ‘Communities First’ areas but not exclusively, and will create a network of 60 community portals and information-age community support centres.
Mae amryw o ffynonellau arian. Cyfeiriaf unwaith eto at y cyhoeddiad a wneuthum yr wythnos diwethaf ynglŷn â’n cynlluniau i weithio gyda’r awdurdodau lleol i ddarparu mannau cyswllt ym mhob awdurdod lleol yng Nghymru. Byddai’r rhain yn adnoddau cymunedol y gallai’r awdurdodau lleol eu defnyddio mewn cydweithrediad â grwpiau lleol megis Cyngor Tref Neyland, er enghraifft. Ceir y rhaglen e-Gymunedau gwerth tua £25 miliwn. Caiff ei datblygu gan y WDA o dan raglen cronfeydd strwythurol Ewropeaidd. Bydd yn gweithio gyda 100 o gymunedau difreintiedig ledled Cymru, yn bennaf mewn ardaloedd ‘Rhoi Cymunedau’n Gyntaf’ ond nid yn ddieithriad, a bydd yn creu rhwydwaith o 60 o fynedfeydd cymunedol a chanolfannau cymorth cymunedol yr oes wybodaeth.
I also met the Wales Association of Community and Town Councils at the Eisteddfod in August. I suggested that the association should approach us to determine how the Assembly could work collaboratively with it and with local authorities to establish best practice. Others could learn from the example of Neyland Town Council, which, I think, was the first in this field. We could work together to provide better facilities.
Cyfarfûm hefyd â Chymdeithas Cynghorau Bro a Thref Cymru yn yr Eisteddfod ym mis Awst. Awgrymais y dylai’r gymdeithas gysylltu â ni i ganfod sut y gallai’r Cynulliad gydweithio â hi a’r awdurdodau lleol i ganfod yr arferion gorau. Gallai eraill ddysgu o esiampl Cyngor Tref Neyland, sef y cyntaf yn y maes hwn, fe gredaf. Gallem gydweithio i ddarparu gwell cyfleusterau.
Town and community councils can play a vital role in promoting their areas and encouraging people to access the internet. I welcome the range of schemes that provide financial support for that. However, does a range of schemes complicate the issue? Would it not be more sensible to have a direct scheme to provide financial support to town councils in terms of ICT?
Gall cynghorau tref a chymuned chwarae rôl hollbwysig wrth hybu eu hardaloedd ac annog pobl i ddefnyddio’r rhyngrwyd. Croesawaf yr amrywiaeth o gynlluniau sy’n rhoi cymorth ariannol ar gyfer hynny. Fodd bynnag, a yw amrywiaeth o gynlluniau yn cymhlethu’r mater? Oni fyddai’n fwy synhwyrol sefydlu cynllun uniongyrchol i roi cymorth ariannol i gynghorau tref o ran TGCh?
I never thought that I would hear a Conservative state that he was in favour of democratic centralism, but you live and learn on these matters. In my meeting with the Wales Association of Community and Town Councils, we proposed that we would work with the association to identify funding sources and, hopefully, to spread best practice. Our aim is to support communities use of information and communications technology. We will work with our partners in local authorities and community councils to do that. I have identified a variety of sources of funding, information and support that town and community councils can access.
Ni feddyliais erioed y byddwn yn clywed Ceidwadwr yn dweud ei fod o blaid canoli democrataidd, ond mwyaf fyth y bydd dyn yn byw, mwyaf wêl a mwyaf glyw. Yn fy nghyfarfod â Chymdeithas Cynghorau Bro a Thref Cymru, cynigiwyd y byddem yn cydweithio â’r gymdeithas i nodi ffynonellau arian a, gobeithio, i ledu arfer gorau. Ein nod yw helpu cymunedau i ddefnyddio technoleg gwybodaeth a chyfathrebu. Byddwn yn gweithio gyda’n partneriaid yn yr awdurdodau lleol a’r cynghorau cymuned i wneud hynny. Nodais amryw o ffynonellau arian, gwybodaeth a chymorth y gall cynghorau tref a chymuned eu defnyddio.
Strategaeth TGCh (Manteision i Fusnes)
The ICT Strategy (Benefits for Business)
How can Welsh businesses benefit from the information and communications technology strategy? (OAQ13717)
Sut gall busnesau Cymru elwa ar strategaeth technoleg gwybodaeth a chyfathrebu? (OAQ13717)
Our ICT strategy, ‘Cymru Ar-lein—Online for a Better Wales’, set out the Assembly’s commitment to developing Wales as a small, clever country where companies and citizens can fully exploit the benefits of ICT in their everyday lives. The framework set out a coherent strategy for ICT developments across the range of Assembly functions to ensure maximum benefit and synergy between projects. This environment will enable businesses in Wales to grow and prosper.
Nododd ein strategaeth TGCh ‘Cymru Ar-lein—Online for a Better Wales’, ymrwymiad y Cynulliad i ddatblygu Cymru fel gwlad fach, glyfar lle y gall cwmnïau a dinasyddion fanteisio i’r eithaf ar TGCh yn eu bywyd bob dydd. Noda’r fframwaith strategaeth gydgysylltiedig ar gyfer datblygiadau TGCh ar draws ystod o swyddogaethau’r Cynulliad i sicrhau’r budd a’r synergedd mwyaf rhwng prosiectau. Bydd yr amgylchedd hwn yn galluogi busnesau yng Nghymru i dyfu a ffynnu.
Do you share my concern that, in spending National Assembly money on ICT equipment for schools, at least one council—a Plaid Cymru controlled council—excluded all Welsh contractors from its tendering process for contracts to supply that equipment?
A ydych yn rhannu fy mhryder ynglŷn â’r ffaith y bu i o leiaf un cyngor—cyngor o dan reolaeth Plaid Cymru—eithrio pob contractwr o Gymru yn y broses dendro ar gyfer contractau i gyflenwi’r offer hwnnw wrth wario arian y Cynulliad Cenedlaethol ar offer TGCh i ysgolion?
We have a major commitment to developing a strong, indigenous ICT sector in Wales. That is a high priority for the administration. The number of companies in Wales that are trading electronically, as demonstrated by the latest benchmarking study by the Department of Trade and Industry, is encouraging. Much is being done through Objective 1, OpportunitE Wales and other programmes to support the use of ICT by small companies in Wales. However, local authorities must look at the procurement policies adopted by the public sector in Wales, in which they have a key role.
Mae gennym ymrwymiad pwysig i ddatblygu sector TGCh cryf, cynhenid yng Nghymru. Mae hynny’n flaenoriaeth uchel i’r weinyddiaeth. Mae nifer y cwmnïau yng Nghymru sy’n masnachu’n electronig, fel y dangosodd astudiaeth meincnodi diweddaraf yr Adran Masnach a Diwydiant, yn galonogol. Mae llawer yn cael ei wneud drwy Amcan 1, CyflE Cymru a rhaglenni eraill sy’n cefnogi’r defnydd a wna cwmnïau bach yng Nghymru o TGCh. Fodd bynnag, rhaid i’r awdurdodau lleol ystyried y polisïau caffael a fabwysiadwyd gan y sector cyhoeddus yng Nghymru, y mae ganddynt rôl allweddol i chwarae yn hynny o beth.
I share Peter’s regret that the local authority to which he referred did not choose a local or a Welsh-based supplier for its ICT for Learning equipment. Local authorities have considerable discretion in how they deal with the tendering process. As long as they achieve Best Value, the process is very flexible. I hope that local authorities in Wales will bear in mind the need to make decisive interventions in encouraging economic development through their procurement policies and help to ensure that we have a strong, indigenous ICT structure in Wales.
Yr wyf innau fel Peter yn gresynu at y ffaith nad oedd yr awdurdod lleol y cyfeiriodd ato wedi dewis cyflenwr lleol neu gyflenwr yn Nghymru ar gyfer ei offer TGCh ar gyfer Dysgu. Mae gan awdurdodau lleol gryn ddisgresiwn yn y modd y maent yn ymdrin â’r broses dendro. Cyn belled ag y byddant yn sicrhau Gwerth Gorau, y mae’r broses yn hyblyg iawn. Gobeithiaf y bydd awdurdodau lleol Cymru yn ystyried yr angen i wneud ymyriadau pendant i hybu datblygu economaidd drwy eu polisïau caffael ac i helpu sicrhau bod gennym strwythur TGCh cynhenid, cadarn yng Nghymru.
Last week, you suggested that I welcome good news with a negative response. I am sure that you do not regard as good news the study published by the Organisation for Economic Co-operation and Development on 29 October. The UK has dropped to thirteenth position in the European Union league of broadband penetration. Broadband penetration in the UK is only one third of the EU average. The Welsh Development Agency has also published a report showing that Wales is at the bottom of the UK league. This poses a serious threat to Welsh businesses. Do you accept the calculation that to overcome this would require an investment in infrastructure, including asymmetric digital subscriber line equipment at all exchanges, of at least £200 million? Do you also accept that this will not be met by the investment of £8.5 million—not £18.4 million—in infrastructure, and that the Government must play a much greater role in closing the digital divide?
Yr wythnos diwethaf, gwnaethoch awgrymu fy mod yn croesawu newyddion da drwy ymateb yn negyddol. Mae’n siŵr gennyf na fyddwch o’r farn mai newyddion da yw’r astudiaeth a gyhoeddwyd gan y Sefydliad Cydweithredu a Datblygu Economaidd ar 29 Hydref. Mae’r DU wedi disgyn i’r trydydd safle ar ddeg ar restr yr Undeb Ewropeaidd o ran treiddiad band llydan. Mae treiddiad band llydan yn y DU ond yn cyfateb â thraean cyfartaledd yr UE. Cyhoeddodd Awdurdod Datblygu Cymru adroddiad hefyd sy’n dangos bod Cymru ar waelod y domen yn y DU. Mae hyn yn fygythiad difrifol i fusnesau Cymru. A dderbyniwch y cyfrifiad y byddai angen o leiaf £200 miliwn o fuddsoddiad mewn seilwaith, yn cynnwys offer llinell danysgrifio ddigidol anghymesur ym mhob cyfnewidfa i oresgyn hynny? A dderbyniwch hefyd na chaiff hyn ei gyflawni drwy fuddsoddi £8.5 miliwn—nid £18.4 miliwn—yn y seilwaith, a bod yn rhaid i’r Llywodraeth chwarae rôl llawer mwy i gau’r bwlch digidol?
The short answer is ‘no’. I saw your press release last week and I disagree with it. We will disagree on this, because you think that the only way to provide access to broadband is by delivering fibre optics to every school, household and community in Wales. If you were to do that, it would cost about £200 million or £300 million, given Wales’s geography and the dispersed nature of many of its communities. The Department of Trade and Industry has calculated a sum of £5 billion for the whole of the UK. I fundamentally disagree with your belief that you must follow that path to deliver broadband on a widely accessible basis. We made a major step forward—I know that Phil does not agree, but all the other parties in the Assembly, including the Conservatives, welcomed it—in developing a broadband infrastructure by establishing a lifelong learning network and providing points of presence in every local authority in Wales, which was warmly welcomed and given universal praise at Syniad’s meeting yesterday. I am afraid to say that it is only you and Plaid Cymru who are, as always, whinging and unprepared to accept good news when it is presented to you.
Yr ateb syml yw ‘na’. Gwelais eich datganiad i’r wasg yr wythnos diwethaf ac ni chytunaf ag ef. Byddwn yn anghytuno ar hyn, am eich bod o’r farn mai’r unig ffordd o ddarparu band llydan yw darparu opteg ffibrau i bob ysgol, cartref a chymuned yng Nghymru. Pe baech yn gwneud hynny, byddai’n costio tua £200 miliwn neu £300 miliwn o ystyried daearyddiaeth Cymru a natur wasgaredig llawer o’i chymunedau. Mae’r Adran Masnach a Diwydiant wedi cyfrifo y byddai’n costio £5 biliwn ar gyfer y DU gyfan. Anghytunaf yn llwyr â chi fod yn rhaid mynd ar y trywydd hwnnw i ddarparu band llydan yn eang. Cymerwyd cam mawr ymlaen gennym—gwn nad yw Phil yn cytuno, ond mae pob plaid arall yn y Cynulliad, gan gynnwys y Ceidwadwyr, wedi ei groesawu—o ran datblygu seilwaith band llydan drwy sefydlu rhwydwaith dysgu gydol oes a darparu mannau cyswllt ym mhob awdurdod lleol yng Nghymru, penderfyniad a gafodd ei groesawu’n frwd a’i glodfori’n gyffredinol yng nghyfarfod Syniad ddoe. Ofnaf mai dim ond chi a Phlaid Cymru, sydd, yn ôl eich arfer, yn cwyno ac yn amharod i dderbyn newydd da pan ddaw i’ch rhan.
Defnyddio’r Rhyngrwyd am Ddim mewn Llyfrgelloedd Cyhoeddus
Free Access to the Internet at Public Libraries
Will the Minister outline discussions he has held concerning the possibilities of free public access to the internet at public libraries? (OAQ13700)
A wnaiff y Trefnydd ddisgrifio unrhyw drafodaethau a gafodd ynghylch y posibilrwydd o sicrhau bod modd defnyddio’r rhyngrwyd am ddim mewn llyfrgelloedd cyhoeddus? (OAQ13700)
The people’s network initiative in Wales will bring all public libraries online by the end of 2002. The number of computer terminals in Welsh public libraries will rise from about 200 to some 2,000 and I am delighted to say that Wales is likely to be the only country in the UK to provide public library internet access free at the point of delivery. Funding of £6.5 million and a further £1 million for staff training is being provided through the new opportunities fund to support this initiative.
Bydd menter rhwydwaith y bobl yng Nghymru yn sicrhau bod pob llyfrgell gyhoeddus ar-lein erbyn diwedd 2002. Bydd nifer y terfynellau cyfrifiadurol mewn llyfrgelloedd cyhoeddus yng Nghymru yn cynyddu o tua 200 i tua 2,000 ac yr wyf yn falch o nodi mai Cymru fydd yr unig wlad, fwy na thebyg, i ddarparu cysylltiadau i’r rhyngrwyd am ddim mewn llyfrgelloedd cyhoeddus. Darperir £6.5 miliwn a £1 filiwn arall drwy’r gronfa cyfleoedd newydd ar gyfer hyfforddiant i’r staff i ategu’r fenter hon.
I am sure that what you have said will be greatly welcomed. Will you look again at the problem? The sum of £1 for 13 minutes of internet access is not a large amount for some people. However, for many, it is a large amount, particularly when they are trying to develop high-tech skills. Will you consider implementing the initiative at the earliest possible opportunity, hopefully by the beginning of the next financial year?
Hyderaf y bydd croeso mawr i’r hyn a ddywedasoch. A wnewch chi ail-edrych ar y broblem? Nid yw’r swm o £1 am 13 munud o gysylltu â’r rhyngrwyd yn swm fawr i rai. Fodd bynnag, i lawer mae’n swm fawr, yn arbennig pan ydynt yn ceisio datblygu sgiliau uwchdechnoleg. A wnewch chi ystyried gweithredu’r fenter ar y cyfle cyntaf, gobeithio erbyn dechrau’r flwyddyn ariannol nesaf?
This programme has been negotiated with local authorities and is dependent on those discussions, procurement, the roll-out of equipment, and staff training. I know that you want the initiative to be introduced earlier. However, we are delivering the initiative in Wales. That is not the case in other parts of the UK. All I can say is that we are trying to introduce the programme as soon as possible. Nevertheless, it is a major step forward in allowing community internet access and helping to address the digital divide. The ownership of PCs in homes is lower in Wales than in any other part of the UK. Therefore, by providing community access we are providing an alternative point of access to the internet and electronic communication. Even though we want to see this introduced earlier, the initiative is a major achievement of which we can be proud.
Negodwyd y rhaglen hon gyda’r awdurdodau lleol. Mae’n dibynnu ar y trafodaethau hynny, proses gaffael, cyflwyno’r offer a hyfforddi staff. Gwn eich bod am i’r fenter gael ei chyflwyno’n gynt. Fodd bynnag, byddwn yn cyflwyno’r fenter yng Nghymru. Nid yw hynny’n wir am rannau eraill o’r DU. Y cyfan y gallaf ei ddweud yw ein bod yn ceisio cyflwyno’r rhaglen mor fuan â phosibl. Er hynny, mae rhoi mynediad i’r rhyngrwyd yn y gymuned a helpu i fynd i’r afael â’r bwlch digidol yn gam mawr ymlaen. Mae llai o gartrefi yn berchen ar gyfrifiaduron personol yng Nghymru nag mewn unrhyw ran arall o’r DU. Felly, drwy roi mynediad yn y gymuned, yr ydym yn rhoi mynediad amgen i’r rhyngrwyd a chyfathrebu electronig. Er ein bod am weld hyn yn cael ei gyflwyno’n gynt, mae’r fenter yn gyflawniad pwysig y gallwn ymfalchïo ynddi.
Fel y gwyddoch, o ganlyniad i flynyddoedd llwm a blin y Llywodraethau Ceidwadol, mae nifer o gymunedau Cymru yn dioddef effeithiau loteri y cod post mewn meysydd megis addysg ac iechyd. Sut y byddwch yn sicrhau na fydd rhai cymunedau yn dioddef yr un effeithiau andwyol, sef amddifadedd cymdeithasol, addysgol ac economaidd, o ran cysylltiadau ADSL rhad a di-dâl?
You are aware that, as a result of the bleak and barren years of Conservative Governments, a number of communities in Wales are suffering the effects of the postcode lottery in terms of education and health. How will you ensure that some communities do not suffer the same detrimental effects, namely social, educational and economic deprivation, in terms of affordable and free ADSL links?
I refer you to my announcement two weeks ago, which stated that we will provide, through the Assembly, points of presence in every local authority in Wales and high-speed internet access to every primary, secondary and special school in Wales. We are confident that this will put us ahead of the rest of the UK in this respect. We will also invest significant amounts of money in providing multimedia equipment such as classroom whiteboards to every school. BBC Wales made an interesting and exciting presentation last week about its plans to roll out a digital curriculum. That is about working in partnership with local and education authorities and schools. It is also about working with providers to ensure that we have the equipment for our schools to use the learning material on the internet. I urge all Members to look at what BBC Wales is doing in terms of developing a digital curriculum, and particularly its work through the medium of Welsh. We will work closely with the BBC on this significant and exciting development.
Fe’ch cyfeiriaf at fy nghyhoeddiad bythefnos yn ôl, lle y nodais y byddwn, drwy’r Cynulliad, yn darparu mannau cyswllt ym mhob awdurdod lleol yng Nghymru a mynediad cyflym i’r rhyngrwyd ym mhob ysgol gynradd, ysgol uwchradd ac ysgol arbennig yng Nghymru. Yr ydym yn ffyddiog y bydd hyn yn ein rhoi ar y blaen i weddill y DU yn hynny o beth. Byddwn hefyd yn buddsoddi symiau mawr i ddarparu offer amlgyfrwng megis byrddau gwyn ym mhob ystafell ddosbarth. Gwnaeth BBC Cymru gyflwyniad diddorol a chyffrous yr wythnos diwethaf ar ei gynlluniau i gyflwyno cwricwlwm digidol. Mae hynny’n golygu gweithio mewn partneriaeth gyda’r awdurdodau lleol a’r awdurdodau addysg a’r ysgolion. Mae hefyd yn golygu gweithio gyda darparwyr i sicrhau bod gennym yr offer yn ein hysgolion i ddefnyddio’r deunydd dysgu ar y rhyngrwyd. Anogaf bob Aelod i edrych ar yr hyn y mae BBC Wales yn ei wneud o ran datblygu cwricwlwm digidol, ac yn arbennig ei waith drwy gyfrwng y Gymraeg. Byddwn yn cydweithio’n agos â’r BBC ar y datblygiad sylweddol a chyffrous hwn.
Defnydd Busnesau Bach a Chanolig eu Maint o TGCh
The Use of ICT by SMEs
What initiatives is the Assembly pursuing to help small and medium-sized enterprises utilise new ICT developments? (OAQ13712)
Pa fentrau y mae’r Cynulliad yn eu cynnal i helpu busnesau bach a chanolig eu maint i fanteisio ar ddatblygiadau TGCh newydd? (OAQ13712)
I refer you to the answer I gave to Peter Black earlier today. In addition, a range of business support mechanisms are available to SMEs to enable them to make the best use of ICT. These can be accessed through Business Connect. Furthermore, the lifelong learning network that I announced last month will help businesses by stimulating demand for services and, in some cases, ensuring supply into areas that may not otherwise receive broadband. There is also the issue of improving people’s skills. The awareness and demonstration programme associated with the network will help businesses understand the value of broadband to them. My officials are also working with a range of organisations to stimulate projects that utilise new technologies.
Fe’ch cyfeiriaf at fy ateb i Peter Black yn gynharach heddiw. Yn ogystal, mae ystod o systemau cymorth i fusnesau ar gael i fusnesau bach a chanolig eu maint i’w galluogi i wneud y defnydd gorau o TGCh. Gellir cael gafael ar y rhain drwy Gyswllt Busnes. At hynny, bydd y rhwydwaith dysgu gydol oes a gyhoeddais y mis diwethaf, yn helpu busnesau drwy symbylu’r galw am wasanaethau, ac mewn rhai achosion, drwy sicrhau cyflenwad i ardaloedd na fyddent fel arall wedi cael band llydan. Cyfyd hefyd y mater o wella sgiliau pobl. Bydd y rhaglen codi ymwybyddiaeth ac arddangos sy’n gysylltiedig â’r rhwydwaith yn helpu busnesau i ddeall gwerth band llydan iddynt hwy. Mae fy swyddogion hefyd yn gweithio gydag ystod o sefydliadau i symbylu prosiectau sy’n defnyddio’r technolegau newydd.
Do you agree that in modern economies the SME sector is vital, and that if it is further developed in Wales it will lead to considerable economic growth? We must ensure that all our policies are aimed at getting to those vital companies to ensure that they are given the wherewithal to take advantage of these developments.
A gytunwch fod y sector busnesau bach a chanolig eu maint yn hanfodol mewn economïau modern ac os bydd yn datblygu ymhellach yng Nghymru, bydd yn arwain at gryn dwf economaidd? Rhaid inni sicrhau bod pob un o’n polisïau yn cwmpasu’r cwmnïau hollbwysig hynny i sicrhau eu bod yn cael popeth sydd ei angen i fanteisio ar y datblygiadau hyn.
Absolutely. I think that we are all as one on this issue. We have introduced a range of policies, initiatives and programmes, such as the Wales sme-Business programme and the OpportunitE Wales programme in Objective 1 areas. We also want to ensure that ICT is easy to understand. Given the complexity of the issue, small companies need the best advice possible in order to make the most of ICT. On the public sector, we have a major role to play in our procurement policies to ensure that we help those small companies. I regret, and I share Peter Black’s regret, that one local authority does not consider supporting a Welsh-based company to be a high priority.
Yn hollol. Credaf fod pawb yn gytûn yn hyn o beth. Yr ydym wedi cyflwyno ystod o bolisïau, mentrau a rhaglenni, megis rhaglen sme-Business Cymru a rhaglen CyflE Cymru yn ardaloedd Amcan 1. Yr ydym hefyd am sicrhau bod TGCh yn hawdd ei deall. O gofio pa mor gymhleth ydyw, mae angen i gwmnïau bach gael y cyngor gorau posibl er mwyn iddynt wneud y gorau o TGCh. O ran y sector cyhoeddus, mae gennym rôl bwysig i’w chwarae yn ein polisïau caffael i sicrhau ein bod yn helpu’r cwmnïau bach hynny. Gresynaf at y ffaith, fel Peter Black, nad yw un awdurdod lleol o’r farn bod cefnogi cwmni yng Nghymru yn flaenoriaeth uchel.
Further to Peter Black’s question, is it not true that local authorities must also ensure Best Value and comply with competitive tendering rules? If that is not the case, then why did the National Assembly award a £1.2 million contract to India to develop the digital maps of farms required by Europe when we have perfectly good SMEs in Wales that could have done it? It is important to note that the UK Government has said that by 2003, 45 per cent of Wales’s population will have no possible access to broadband communication. That will include half of Wales’s SMEs. Let us not forget that 99.3 per cent of all firms in Wales are SMEs, that is, firms with less than 50 employees. We will be—
Ymhellach i gwestiwn Peter Black, onid yw’n wir dweud bod yn rhaid i awdurdodau lleol sicrhau Gwerth Gorau a chydymffurfio â’r rheolau tendro cystadleuol? Os nad yw hynny’n wir pam y rhoddodd y Cynulliad Cenedlaethol gontract gwerth £1.2 miliwn i gwmni yn yr India i ddatblygu mapiau digidol ffermydd sy’n ofynnol gan Ewrop pan fo cwmnïau bach a chanolig eu maint digon da gennym yng Nghymru a allai fod wedi gwneud y gwaith hwnnw? Mae’n bwysig nodi i Lywodraeth y DU ddweud na fydd gan 45 y cant o boblogaeth Cymru fynediad i gyfathrebu band llydan erbyn 2003. Bydd hynny’n cynnwys hanner y cwmnïau bach a chanolig eu maint yng Nghymru. Ni ddylem anghofio bod 99.3 y cant o holl gwmnïau Cymru yn gwmnïau bach a chanolig eu maint, hynny yw, cwmnïau sy’n cyflogi llai na 50 o bobl. Byddwn—
Dafydd Elis-Thomas The Presiding Officer spoken in English p. 32
Dafydd Elis-Thomas Y Llywydd siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 32
Order. This is not supposed to be a speech. You have asked three questions at the last count, I believe.
Trefn. Nid araith ddylai hyn fod. Yr ydych wedi gofyn tri chwestiwn hyd yma, fe gredaf.
When contracts are tendered or procurement processes undertaken, a range of issues must be considered. These include cost, the level of technical support, the degree of financial confidence that authorities can place in individual suppliers, and the timetable for implementation. In addition, each local authority will have its own procurement regulations. However, there is a huge degree of flexibility, and local authorities have discretion, within the Best Value procedures, in terms of procurement. The Assembly must also abide by the same rules when we award contracts.
Pan roddir contractau ar dendr neu pan gaiff prosesau caffael eu defnyddio, rhaid ystyried ystod o faterion. Ymhlith y rhain mae cost, lefel y cymorth technegol, faint o hyder ariannol sydd gan awdurdodau yn y cyflenwyr unigol, a’r amserlen ar gyfer gweithredu. At hynny bydd gan bob awdurdod lleol eu rheoliadau caffael eu hunain. Fodd bynnag, mae cryn hyblygrwydd ac mae gan awdurdodau lleol ddisgresiwn o fewn y gweithdrefnau Gwerth Gorau, o ran caffael. Rhaid i’r Cynulliad hefyd gadw at yr un rheolau pan roddwn gontractau.
Methiant Gweinydd ym Mharc Cathays
Server Failure at Cathays Park
What steps is the Minister taking to establish a back-up system in the event of the server failing at Cathays Park? (OAQ13698)
Pa gamau y mae’r Trefnydd yn eu cymryd i sefydlu system wrth gefn pe bai’r gweinydd ym Mharc Cathays yn methu? (OAQ13698)
We have engaged technical experts to carry out a risk analysis of the ICT infrastructure in the Assembly. They are due to report by the end of December. In addition, officials, together with our building contractors, are considering what alterations may need to be made to the power supplies, including back-up generators, to the server farms in this building and in Cathays Park. That report is due by the end of November. Once the reports are completed I have asked that the recommendations be presented to the Cabinet for consideration.
Yr ydym wedi cyflogi arbenigwyr technegol i wneud dadansoddiad risg o seilwaith TGCh y Cynulliad. Bwriedir iddynt roi adroddiad erbyn diwedd Rhagfyr. Yn ogystal, mae swyddogion, ynghyd â’n contractwyr adeiladu, yn ystyried y newidiadau y byddai angen eu gwneud i’r cyflenwadau pŵer, yn cynnwys generaduron wrth gefn, i’r gweinyddion yn yr adeilad hwn ac ym Mharc Cathays. Disgwylir yr adroddiad hwnnw erbyn diwedd Tachwedd. Gofynnais i’r argymhellion gael eu cyflwyno i’r Cabinet eu hystyried, pan fydd yr adroddiadau wedi eu cwblhau.
As you are aware, our computers have been shut down on numerous occasions due to adverse weather. How do you expect businesses to have confidence in the Assembly if we cannot be confident about using our IT systems when there is a spot of rain?
Fel y gwyddoch, methodd ein cyfrifiaduron lawer gwaith oherwydd tywydd gwael. Sut y disgwyliwch i fusnesau ymddiried yn y Cynulliad os na allwn ymddiried yn ein systemau TG pan geir ychydig o law?
I am not even sure whether that is a reserved function, let alone a delegated one. As I reported, we have taken this matter extremely seriously. We are looking into the situation. I am reliably informed that no data was lost as a result of the server farm being shut down, or having to be closed down for a short period. We are considering this issue. A report will be prepared later this month, and the Cabinet will consider the financial and logistical implications of implementing that report.
Nid wyf yn siŵr a ydyw honno’n swyddogaeth wedi’i chadw, heb sôn am swyddogaeth ddirprwyedig. Fel y nodais, yr ydym wedi cymryd y mater hwn o ddifrif. Yr ydym yn ymchwilio iddo. Dywedwyd wrthyf na chollwyd unrhyw ddata o ganlyniad i gau’r gweinydd, neu iddi fod ar gau am gyfnod byr. Yr ydym yn ystyried y mater hwn. Caiff adroddiad ei baratoi yn ddiweddarach y mis hwn, a bydd y Cabinet yn ystyried goblygiadau ariannol a rhesymegol gweithredu’r adroddiad hwnnw.
A dderbyniwch fod y bloc diweddar a osodwyd ar swyddogion y Cynulliad ym Mharc Cathays, sydd yn eu hatal rhag cysylltu ag Aelodau’r Cynulliad drwy e-bost, yn cynrychioli cymaint o fygythiad i’r system technoleg gwybodaeth â methiant y gweinydd?
Do you accept that the recent block placed on Assembly officials in Cathays Park, which prevents them from contacting Assembly Members via e-mail, represents as much of a threat to the IT system as the server failure?
Dafydd Elis-Thomas Y Llywydd siaradwyd yn Gymraeg ac yn Saesneg t. 34
Dafydd Elis-Thomas The Presiding Officer spoken in Welsh and English p. 34
Trefn. Ni chredaf fod y cwestiwn hwnnw yn deillio o’r cwestiwn gwreiddiol.
in Welsh Order. I do not believe that that question arises from the original question.
You do not need to answer that supplementary question, Minister. It is not relevant to the original question, although it was a good try.
yn Saesneg Nid oes angen ichi ateb y cwestiwn atodol hwnnw, Weinidog. Nid yw’n berthnasol i’r cwestiwn gwreiddiol, er ei fod yn gynnig teg.
Pwyntiau o Drefn
Points of Order
I have several points of order, of which I have given you advance notice, Llywydd. I raise the first under Standing Order No. 2.4, which relates to Cabinet accountability, and in particular ministerial responsibility within the Cabinet. We all remember the glorious day in October 2000 when the alliance was born—the pantomime horse. Since then there have been ups and downs in the alliance, as well as some ins and outs—what could be termed, to use David Melding’s words last week, ingresses and egresses. I had always understood that this alliance meant that the Liberal Democrats would have to sign up to Government policy. Could we have a statement from you, Llywydd, on ministerial responsibility now that we know that the Liberal Democrats will not support their own Government’s health structure proposals?
Mae gennyf sawl pwynt o drefn, yr wyf wedi rhoi rhagrybudd ichi ohonynt, Lywydd. Codaf y cyntaf o dan Reol Sefydlog Rhif 2.4, sy’n ymwneud ag atebolrwydd y Cabinet, ac yn benodol â chyfrifoldeb gweinidogol o fewn y Cabinet. Yr ydym oll yn cofio’r diwrnod gogoneddus hwnnw yn Hydref 2000 pan anwyd y glymblaid—y ceffyl pantomeim. Ers hynny dringo a disgyn am yn ail fu hanes y glymblaid, yn ogystal â rhai digwyddiadau diddorol—yr hyn y gellid ei alw, i ddefnyddio geiriau David Melding yr wythnos diwethaf, yn fynedfeydd ac yn allanfeydd. Yn ôl yr hyn yr wyf bob amser wedi ei ddeall, golygai’r glymblaid hon y byddai’n rhaid i’r Democratiaid Rhyddfrydol ymrwymo i bolisi’r Llywodraeth. A gawn ddatganiad gennych, Lywydd, ar gyfrifoldeb gweinidogol nawr ein bod yn gwybod na wnaiff y Democratiaid Rhyddfrydol gefnogi cynigion eu Llywodraeth eu hunain ar strwythur iechyd?
Dafydd Elis-Thomas The Presiding Officer spoken in English p. 34
Dafydd Elis-Thomas Y Llywydd siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 34
As you know, I have no responsibility for Ministers or for the Cabinet, except for the occasions when they appear in the Assembly, when they are subject to Standing Orders like every other Member. I see that no Cabinet Member is rising to respond to your point of order. I have no further comment.
Fel y gwyddoch, nid wyf yn gyfrifol am Weinidogion nac am y Cabinet, ac eithrio’r achlysuron pan ymddangosant yn y Cynulliad, pan fydd Rheolau Sefydlog yn eu rhwymo fel pob Aelod arall. Gwelaf nad oes un Aelod o’r Cabinet yn codi i ymateb i’ch pwynt o drefn. Nid oes gennyf sylwadau pellach.
Point of order. I raise this under Standing Order No. 5.3, which relates to the business statement. I seek clarification on a change to the business statement from Tuesday, following the Health and Social Services Committee’s decision yesterday to have a debate on the restructuring of the health service as opposed to a statement on it. This was, apparently, the subject of a mistake on Tuesday—debates becoming statements. The Health and Social Services Committee has now decided that it will hold a debate on this matter. Can you clarify when that debate will take place and the deadline for amendments? After all, we do not want any more mistakes.
Pwynt o drefn. Codaf hyn o dan Reol Sefydlog Rhif 5.3, sy’n ymwneud â’r datganiad busnes. Ceisiaf eglurhad ar newid i’r datganiad busnes ers dydd Mawrth, yn dilyn penderfyniad y Pwyllgor Iechyd a Gwasanaethau Cymdeithasol ddoe i gynnal dadl ar ailstrwythuro’r gwasanaeth iechyd yn hytrach na rhoi datganiad arno. Mae’n debyg bod hyn yn destun camgymeriad ddydd Mawrth—troi dadleuon yn ddatganiadau. Mae’r Pwyllgor Iechyd a Gwasanaethau Cymdeithasol wedi penderfynu bellach ei fod am gynnal dadl ar y mater hwn. A allwch egluro pryd y caiff y ddadl honno ei chynnal a’r terfyn amser ar gyfer addasiadau? Wedi’r cyfan, nid ydym am gael mwy o gamgymeriadau.
Dafydd Elis-Thomas The Presiding Officer spoken in English p. 35
Dafydd Elis-Thomas Y Llywydd siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 35
Order. There is no business statement on Thursdays, as you know. There will be one on Tuesday, and I assume that the Minister will make a statement then.
Trefn. Ni cheir datganiad busnes ar ddydd Iau, fel y gwyddoch. Bydd un ddydd Mawrth, a chymeraf yn ganiataol y gwnaiff y Gweinidog ddatganiad bryd hynny.
Further to this point of order, we need clarification on this matter now. We understood that there was to be a debate. The Minister for Assembly Business told us on Tuesday that it had always been intended to be a statement, although it was down as a debate in the forward work plan. The Minister for Health and Social Services had previously told the Health and Social Services Committee that it would be a debate. She was seen wall-to-wall on television last night promising a debate. We need to know now so that people can prepare for it, if there is to be a debate on Thursday rather than the statement that is, as I understand it, presently scheduled in the business statement. I would appreciate it if the Minister for Assembly Business could respond to this today.
Ymhellach at y pwynt hwn o drefn, mae angen eglurhad ar y mater hwn yn awr. Yr oeddem ar ddeall bod dadl i’w chynnal. Dywedodd y Trefnydd ddydd Mawrth mai datganiad oedd y bwriad erioed, er ei fod wedi’i nodi fel dadl yn y blaengynllun gwaith. Yr oedd y Gweinidog dros Iechyd a Gwasanaethau Cymdeithasol wedi dweud wrth y Pwyllgor Iechyd a Gwasanaethau Cymdeithasol mai dadl a fyddai. Fe’i gwelwyd ar y teledu neithiwr yn addo dadl. Mae angen inni wybod yn awr er mwyn i bobl allu paratoi ar ei chyfer, os bydd dadl i’w chynnal ddydd Iau yn hytrach na’r datganiad sydd, yn ôl yr hyn a ddeallaf, wedi’i amserlennu yn y datganiad busnes ar hyn o bryd. Byddwn yn gwerthfawrogi pe gallai’r Trefnydd ymateb i hyn heddiw.
Further to this point of order, at the Health and Social Services Committee meeting yesterday, the Minister told the Committee what her conclusions were. Is it in order for a Minister to dictate to Committee members what will or will not take place, even though those Committee members do not agree with her? You may be aware that the Minister for Health and Social Services had to be forced to agree to a debate in the Chamber on this most important issue. I seek your guidance on how Ministers should conduct themselves at Committees when it is clear that the majority of Health and Social Services Committee members do not agree with Government policy.
Ymhellach i’r pwynt hwn o drefn, yng nghyfarfod y Pwyllgor Iechyd a Gwasanaethau Cymdeithasol ddoe, dywedodd y Gweinidog wrth y Pwyllgor beth oedd ei chasgliadau. A yw’n iawn i Weinidog ddeddfu i aelodau Pwyllgor beth wnaiff neu na wnaiff ddigwydd, er nad yw’r aelodau Pwyllgor hynny yn cytuno â hi? Efallai eich bod yn ymwybodol y bu’n rhaid gorfodi’r Gweinidog dros Iechyd a Gwasanaethau Cymdeithasol i gytuno i gynnal dadl yn y Siambr ar y mater tra phwysig hwn. Ceisiaf eich arweiniad ar sut y dylai Gweinidogion ymddwyn mewn Pwyllgorau pan fydd yn amlwg nad yw mwyafrif aelodau’r Pwyllgor Iechyd a Gwasanaethau Cymdeithasol yn cytuno â pholisi’r Llywodraeth.
Dafydd Elis-Thomas The Presiding Officer spoken in English p. 36
Dafydd Elis-Thomas Y Llywydd siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 36
I do not have responsibility for the conduct of Committees save for the overall order of Committees and their relationship with Plenary. The work of Committees is ably conducted by the relevant Chairs and by discussion within the panel of Chairs. What Ministers say, or do not say, in Committee is a political matter for the Ministers concerned.
Nid wyf yn gyfrifol am ymddygiad Pwyllgorau ac eithrio trefn gyffredinol Pwyllgorau a’u perthynas â’r Cyfarfod Llawn. Arweinir gwaith y Pwyllgorau yn abl gan y Cadeiryddion perthnasol a thrwy drafod o fewn panel y Cadeiryddion. Mater gwleidyddol i’r Gweinidogion dan sylw yw’r hyn a ddywed Gweinidogion, neu na ddywedant, mewn Pwyllgorau.
Further to that point of order, and if I may repeat the point, it would be a kindness if the Minister for Assembly Business were to clarify the situation for next week. I realise that we cannot require anyone under Standing Orders to do so—or I suspect that that would be your judgment—but it would be a kindness. The proposed structural changes to the NHS will be the biggest changes since the early 1970s and there is a strong feeling in the Committee that we should have a debate about their principle. We should know when this body, which is the devolved institution of government for Wales, will get a chance to debate this issue. It would be helpful, given what happened in the Health and Social Services Committee meeting yesterday, if Andrew Davies would be gracious enough to respond now.
Ymhellach i’r pwynt hwnnw o drefn, ac os caf ailadrodd y pwynt, byddai o gymorth pe bai’r Trefnydd yn egluro’r sefyllfa ar gyfer yr wythnos nesaf. Sylweddolaf na allwn ei gwneud yn ofynnol i neb wneud hynny o dan Reolau Sefydlog—neu tybiaf mai dyna fyddai eich barn—ond byddai o gymorth. Y newidiadau strwythur arfaethedig i’r NHS fydd y newidiadau mwyaf ers dechrau’r 1970au a cheir teimlad cryf yn y Pwyllgor y dylem gael dadl am eu hegwyddor. Dylem wybod pryd y caiff y corff hwn, sef sefydliad datganoledig llywodraeth Cymru, gyfle i gynnal dadl ar y mater hwn. Byddai o gymorth, o ystyried yr hyn a ddigwyddodd yng nghyfarfod y Pwyllgor Iechyd a Gwasanaethau Cymdeithasol ddoe, pe bai Andrew Davies cyn garediced ag ymateb yn awr.
Further to that point of order, it is important that the Minister for Assembly Business clarifies this issue for the simple reason that when the business statement was announced on Tuesday, we were left with the impression that there would be a statement on this. However, the Minister for Health and Social Services told the Committee, on the following day, that there would be a debate on this matter. How can we leave the Assembly this week in a situation where one Minister is telling us that there will be a statement and another, who is in charge of the business of health, is telling us that there will be a debate? In fairness to everybody in the Assembly, surely the Minister for Assembly Business should now tell us whether there will be a statement or a debate.
Ymhellach i’r pwynt o drefn hwnnw, mae’n bwysig bod y Trefnydd yn egluro’r mater hwn, oherwydd yn syml iawn, pan gyhoeddwyd y datganiad busnes ddydd Mawrth, cawsom yr argraff y byddai datganiad ar hyn. Fodd bynnag, dywedodd y Gweinidog dros Iechyd a Gwasanaethau Cymdeithasol wrth y Pwyllgor, drannoeth, y byddai dadl ar y mater hwn. Sut y gallwn adael y Cynulliad yr wythnos hon mewn sefyllfa lle y mae un Gweinidog yn dweud wrthym y bydd datganiad ac un arall, sydd yn gyfrifol am iechyd, yn dweud wrthym y bydd dadl? Er tegwch i bawb yn y Cynulliad, oni ddylai’r Trefnydd ddweud wrthym yn awr ai datganiad a geir neu ddadl?
Andrew Davies The Minister for Assembly Business spoken in English p. 37
Andrew Davies Y Trefnydd siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 37
The Presiding Officer is correct. I made my business statement on Tuesday and it was not challenged—[ASSEMBLY MEMBERS: ‘It was.’]
Mae’r Llywydd yn iawn. Gwneuthum fy natganiad busnes ddydd Mawrth ac ni chafodd ei herio—[AELODAU’R CYNULLIAD: ‘Do, fe’i heriwyd.’
Dafydd Elis-Thomas The Presiding Officer spoken in English p. 37
Dafydd Elis-Thomas Y Llywydd siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 37
Order. The Minister for Assembly Business is technically correct in that there was no challenge to the business statement; there were comments on it, but it was not challenged.
Trefn. Yn dechnegol mae’r Trefnydd yn gywir pan ddywed na heriwyd y datganiad busnes; cafwyd sylwadau arno, ond ni chafodd ei herio.
Thank you, Presiding Officer. The business statement was not challenged. Questions were raised and responses were given, but the statement was not challenged. Under Standing Orders, Tuesday’s business statement was therefore accepted as business. As the administration has said before, we cannot mandate Subject Committees and Subject Committees cannot mandate us. The fact that the Health and Social Services Committee said that it wanted a debate rather than a statement—and I will not discuss the merits of the case—does not necessarily mean that a debate will take place. However, I will discuss how we should deal with this issue over the coming months with my ministerial colleagues and others—[Interruption.]
Diolch, Lywydd. Ni heriwyd y datganiad busnes. Codwyd cwestiynau ac ymatebwyd, ond ni heriwyd y datganiad. O dan Reolau Sefydlog, derbyniwyd datganiad busnes dydd Mawrth felly fel busnes. Fel y mae’r weinyddiaeth wedi dweud o’r blaen, ni allwn roi mandad i Bwyllgorau Pwnc ac ni all Pwyllgorau Pwnc roi mandad i ni. Nid yw’r ffaith bod y Pwyllgor Iechyd a Gwasanaethau Cymdeithasol wedi dweud ei fod am gael dadl yn hytrach na datganiad—ac nid wyf am drafod y mater—yn golygu o reidrwydd y cynhelir dadl. Fodd bynnag, trafodaf sut y dylem ymdrin â’r mater hwn dros y misoedd sydd i ddod gyda’m cyd-Weinidogion ac eraill—[Torri ar draws.]
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Order. The Minister is making observations on this point of order.
Trefn. Mae’r Gweinidog yn gwneud sylwadau ar y pwynt o drefn hwn.
If there is to be a debate with a motion, Members will be made aware by tomorrow morning, through the normal channels, of the wording of that motion. I said in my business statement that a statement was planned. That was always my understanding and that was my undertaking, as Minister for Assembly Business, in tabling business. I will discuss this later today and Members will be informed in due course of how this issue will be discussed next Thursday, and in subsequent months.
Os ceir dadl â chynnig, caiff yr Aelodau wybod erbyn bore yfory, drwy’r sianelau arferol, am eiriad y cynnig hwnnw. Dywedais yn fy natganiad busnes bod datganiad wedi’i gynllunio. Dyna’r hyn yr oeddwn wedi’i ddeall ar hyd yr amser a dyna yr ymgymerais ag ef, fel Trefnydd, wrth gyflwyno’r busnes. Trafodaf hyn yn ddiweddarach heddiw a chaiff yr Aelodau wybod maes o law sut y trafodir y mater hwn ddydd Iau nesaf, ac yn y misoedd dilynol.
Further to that point of order, as temporary Chair of the Committee, I can tell you what happened at yesterday’s meeting. We discussed structural changes in the NHS. We agreed by consensus that we would request of the Minister for Assembly Business a slot for Plenary debate. I understand that that letter, signed by me on behalf of the Committee, will be sent today. I would then expect the Minister for Assembly Business to consider the letter and make his deliberation. I say to members of the Health and Social Services Committee that it would have been helpful if you had told me that you were raising this as a point of order. I thought we had decided our case at Committee yesterday, and I would have preferred to have been notified of this prior to you raising it on the floor of the Assembly.
Ymhellach i’r pwynt o drefn hwnnw, fel Cadeirydd dros dro y Pwyllgor, gallaf ddweud wrthych beth a ddigwyddodd yng nghyfarfod ddoe. Trafodasom newidiadau strwythurol yn yr NHS. Cytunasom drwy gonsensws y byddem yn gofyn i’r Trefnydd am slot ar gyfer dadl mewn Cyfarfod Llawn. Deallaf y bydd y llythyr hwnnw, a arwyddwyd gennyf ar ran y Pwyllgor, yn cael ei anfon heddiw. Byddwn yn disgwyl wedyn i’r Trefnydd ystyried y llythyr a dod i’w gasgliad. Dywedaf wrth aelodau’r Pwyllgor Iechyd a Gwasanaethau Cymdeithasol y byddai wedi bod o gymorth pe baech wedi dweud wrthyf eich bod yn codi hyn fel pwynt o drefn. Yr oeddwn yn credu ein bod wedi penderfynu ar ein hachos yn y Pwyllgor ddoe, a byddai wedi bod yn well gennyf fod wedi cael gwybod am hyn cyn ichi ei godi ar lawr y Cynulliad.
Further to that point of order, the statement by the Minister for Assembly Business is outrageous, because yesterday the Minister for Health and Social Services, when faced with a vote that she would have lost, agreed that there would be a debate on the restructuring of the national health service. Now the Minister for Assembly Business tells us that he will consider it and hold discussions. Who is running this Government? Where is the First Minister to adjudicate between two Ministers who clearly do not agree with each other?
Ymhellach i’r pwynt o drefn hwnnw, mae datganiad y Trefnydd yn warthus oherwydd, o wynebu pleidlais y byddai wedi ei cholli ddoe, cytunodd y Gweinidog dros Iechyd a Gwasanaethau Cymdeithasol y ceid dadl ar ailstrwythuro’r gwasanaeth iechyd gwladol. Yn awr dywed y Trefnydd wrthym y bydd yn ystyried y peth ac yn cynnal trafodaethau. Pwy sy’n rhedeg y Llywodraeth hon? Ble mae Prif Weinidog Cymru i ddyfarnu rhwng dau Weinidog y mae’n amlwg nad ydynt yn cytuno â’i gilydd?
Dafydd Elis-Thomas The Presiding Officer spoken in English p. 38
Dafydd Elis-Thomas Y Llywydd siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 38
Order. We have rehearsed this matter at some length, and there are further points of order of which I have had prior notice.
Trefn. Yr ydym wedi trafod y mater hwn am gryn amser, ac mae pwyntiau o drefn pellach yr wyf wedi fy rhaghysbysu amdanynt.
Further to that point of order, I feel strongly on this matter. The Minister for Assembly Business is the servant of Assembly Members. The Minister for Health and Social Services yesterday promised a debate on this issue. There is a slot scheduled next week for a statement on this issue. Can the Minister for Assembly Business confirm that there will not now be a statement, but a debate? We had always understood that there would be a debate on this issue—he seems to be the only person who believed it would be a statement. Is he running the show, or are the Members running the show? He should give way and acknowledge that there will be a debate next week.
Ymhellach i’r pwynt o drefn hwnnw, teimlaf yn gryf ar y mater hwn. Gwas Aelodau’r Cynulliad yw’r Trefnydd. Ddoe addawodd y Gweinidog dros Iechyd a Gwasanaethau Cymdeithasol ddadl ar y mater hwn. Mae slot wedi’i amserlennu yr wythnos nesaf ar gyfer datganiad ar y mater hwn. A all y Trefnydd gadarnhau nad datganiad a geir bellach, ond dadl? Yr oeddem wedi deall ar hyd yr amser y byddai dadl ar y mater hwn—ymddengys mai ef yw’r unig berson a gredai mai datganiad a geid. Ai ef sy’n rhedeg y sioe, neu ai’r Aelodau sy’n rhedeg y sioe? Dylai ildio a chydnabod y bydd dadl yr wythnos nesaf.
Dafydd Elis-Thomas The Presiding Officer spoken in English p. 38
Dafydd Elis-Thomas Y Llywydd siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 38
Order. The Minister has made his position clear, and I do not want to prolong this much further.
Trefn. Mae’r Gweinidog wedi gwneud ei safbwynt yn glir, ac nid wyf am barhau â hyn lawer yn hwy.
Further to that point of order, does the Minister for Assembly Business agree that he is in this position partly because of comments from the Leader of the Liberal Democrat Group, Mike German, yesterday which undermined the Minister for Health and Social Services, and because the Liberal Democrats reneged on the Assembly coalition’s policies on health?
Ymhellach i’r pwynt o drefn hwnnw, a gytuna’r Trefnydd mai rhan o’r rheswm ei fod yn y sefyllfa hon yw sylwadau gan Arweinydd Grŵp y Democratiaid Rhyddfrydol, Mike German, ddoe, a danseiliodd y Gweinidog dros Iechyd a Gwasanaethau Cymdeithasol, a’r ffaith nad yw’r Democratiaid Rhyddfrydol wedi anrhydeddu eu hymrwymiad i bolisïau clymblaid y Cynulliad ar iechyd?
Dafydd Elis-Thomas The Presiding Officer spoken in English p. 39
Dafydd Elis-Thomas Y Llywydd siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 39
Order. It is not appropriate for Members to persist in using points of order for political debate.
Trefn. Nid yw’n briodol i’r Aelodau barhau i ddefnyddio pwyntiau o drefn er dadl wleidyddol.
Further to that point of order, the original decision of the Health and Social Services Committee was to have a debate, but that decision now seems to be in limbo. In fairness to all 60 Assembly Members, we need to know whether or not there will be a debate.
Ymhellach i’r pwynt o drefn hwnnw, penderfyniad gwreiddiol y Pwyllgor Iechyd a Gwasanaethau Cymdeithasol oedd cael dadl, ond bellach ymddengys i’r penderfyniad hwnnw fynd yn angof. Er tegwch i bob un o’r 60 o Aelodau’r Cynulliad, mae angen inni wybod a geir dadl ai peidio.
Dafydd Elis-Thomas The Presiding Officer spoken in English p. 39
Dafydd Elis-Thomas Y Llywydd siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 39
Order. All these points have already been made.
Trefn. Mae’r pwyntiau hyn i gyd wedi’u gwneud eisoes.
Further to that point of order, on Tuesday, after the business statement, I read out paragraph 13 of the Health and Social Services Committee’s papers, which said that we were to have a Plenary debate. I raised it as a point of order on the business statement. We seem to be going round in circles. Somebody must know what is going on, and should tell us.
Ymhellach i’r pwynt o drefn hwnnw, ddydd Mawrth, ar ôl y datganiad busnes, darllenais baragraff 13 o bapurau’r Pwyllgor Iechyd a Gwasanaethau Cymdeithasol ar goedd, a oedd yn nodi ein bod i gael dadl mewn Cyfarfod Llawn. Fe’i codais fel pwynt o drefn ar y datganiad busnes. Ymddengys ein bod yn troi mewn cylchoedd. Mae’n rhaid bod rhywun yn gwybod beth sy’n digwydd, a dylent ddweud wrthym.
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The Minister has heard what has been said, and has spoken. There can be nothing further on this point of order. However, there are a few other points of order on the way.
Mae’r Gweinidog wedi clywed beth sydd wedi’i ddweud, ac mae wedi siarad. Ni chawn ddim mwy ar y pwynt o drefn hwn. Fodd bynnag, mae ambell bwynt o drefn arall ar y ffordd.
Point of order. I raise this under Standing Order No. 6.3. It arises from the incredible answer given by the Minister for Assembly Business when replying to questions on information and communication technology, and the way in which he has not only blown to smithereens the working relationship between himself and the Minister for Health and Social Services with his last comments, but also the relationship with those in charge of local government. The gaping hole that his comments have blown into the whole concept of Best Value, and the way in which he made cheap political points at the expense of a local authority that had followed the guidance of Best Value in certain procurement decisions, raises a whole raft of questions on the status of Best Value.
Pwynt o drefn. Codaf hyn o dan Reol Sefydlog Rhif 6.3. Mae’n deillio o’r ateb anhygoel a roddwyd gan y Trefnydd wrth ateb cwestiynau ar dechnoleg gwybodaeth a chyfathrebu, a’r ffordd y mae nid yn unig wedi chwalu’r berthynas waith rhyngddo ef a’r Gweinidog dros Iechyd a Gwasanaethau Cymdeithasol gyda’i sylwadau diwethaf, ond hefyd y berthynas â’r rheini sy’n gofalu am lywodraeth leol. Mae’r twll enfawr y mae ei sylwadau wedi’u creu yn holl gysyniad Gwerth Gorau, a’r ffordd y gwnaeth bwyntiau gwleidyddol rhad ar draul awdurdod lleol a oedd wedi dilyn arweiniad Gwerth Gorau mewn penderfyniadau caffael penodol, yn codi nifer o gwestiynau ar statws Gwerth Gorau.
As a party we have always argued that, wherever possible, there should be local procurement to support local businesses, and that has often been frustrated by the rules of Best Value laid down by this Government, which were brought into contempt by the Minister’s comments a moment ago. On Tuesday morning in the Audit Committee, we heard that the first six contracts tendered by the Further Education National Consortium in Wales had gone to businesses outside Wales because of Best Value rules, when there were people in Wales willing to supply. Where do we stand? Is there one set of rules for Rhondda Cynon Taff and another for this Assembly Government and the bodies answerable to it? We need transparency and clarity on this issue, and we need a Minister to say where the Best Value regime stands after those incredible comments this morning.
Fel plaid yr ydym wedi dadlau bob amser y dylid sicrhau cefnogaeth, lle bynnag y bo’n bosibl, i fusnesau lleol drwy gaffael yn lleol, ac yn aml mae hynny wedi’i rwystro gan reolau Gwerth Gorau a osodwyd gan y Llywodraeth hon, ac a ddirmygwyd gan sylwadau’r Gweinidog funud yn ôl. Fore Mawrth yn y Pwyllgor Archwilio, clywsom fod y chwe chontract cyntaf a dendrwyd gan Gonsortiwm Cenedlaethol Addysg Bellach Cymru wedi mynd i fusnesau y tu allan i Gymru oherwydd rheolau Gwerth Gorau, pan oedd pobl yng Nghymru yn barod i gyflenwi. Ble yr ydym yn sefyll? A oes un gyfres o reolau i Rondda Cynon Taf ac un arall i Lywodraeth y Cynulliad hwn a’r cyrff sy’n atebol iddo? Mae angen tryloywder ac eglurder ar y mater hwn, ac mae angen i Weinidog ddweud beth yw sefyllfa trefn Gwerth Gorau ar ôl y sylwadau anhygoel hynny y bore yma.
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Dafydd Elis-Thomas Y Llywydd siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 40
Order. Dafydd Wigley knows that this is not a matter of order in the Assembly. He is a member of the Audit Committee, therefore I am sure that he will seek an opportunity to pursue this matter in that appropriate forum.
Trefn. Gŵyr Dafydd Wigley nad yw hyn yn fater o drefn yn y Cynulliad. Mae’n aelod o’r Pwyllgor Archwilio, felly yr wyf yn siŵr y bydd yn ceisio cyfle i ymchwilio i’r mater hwn yn y fforwm priodol hwnnw.
Point of order. I raise this under Standing Order No. 6. We have had yet another protracted points-of-order pantomime; perhaps we should rename Plenary Session, ‘points of order session’.
Pwynt o drefn. Codaf hyn o dan Reol Sefydlog Rhif 6. Cawsom bantomeim estynedig arall eto o bwyntiau o drefn; efallai y dylem ailenwi’r Cyfarfod Llawn yn ‘gyfarfod pwyntiau o drefn’.
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I concur with that sentiment. I call Phil Williams.
Cytunaf â hynny. Galwaf ar Phil Williams.
I did not realise that I was going to be called. I asked you if I could raise a point of order and before the session you told me that it would be inappropriate.
Nid oeddwn yn sylweddoli eich bod am fy ngalw. Gofynnais ichi a allwn godi pwynt o drefn a chyn y sesiwn dywedasoch wrthyf y byddai hynny’n amhriodol.
Dafydd Elis-Thomas The Presiding Officer spoken in English p. 40
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No, I did not. I indicated to you that the matter should be raised in the House Committee. However, if you wish to pursue the point of order, you are entitled to do so.
Naddo ddim. Nodais y dylid codi’r mater ym Mhwyllgor y Tŷ. Fodd bynnag, os ydych am barhau â’r pwynt o drefn, mae croeso ichi wneud hynny.
In the preamble to our Standing Orders, there is a commitment to open and inclusive Government. I am concerned at the way in which unilateral decisions were made to cut officials’ ability to answer Members’ e-mails as was the case in the past and that those restrictions were initially applied to all officials on 3 August. Some exceptions have been made, but there has been considerable inconvenience on matters such as booking rooms or communicating with Committee Chairs. I understand that Members from other parties can give other examples where the work of the ordinary Assembly Members is being frustrated by a heavy-handed rule. I would like you to comment on that because it goes against the commitment in Standing Orders to open and inclusive Government.
Yn y rhagarweiniad i’n Rheolau Sefydlog, ceir ymrwymiad i Lywodraeth agored a chynhwysol. Pryderaf am y modd y gwnaethpwyd penderfyniadau unochrog i dorri ar allu swyddogion i ateb negeseuon e-bost yr Aelodau fel yn y gorffennol ac i’r cyfyngiadau hynny gael eu cymhwyso’n wreiddiol i bob swyddog ar 3 Awst. Gwnaethpwyd rhai eithriadau, ond bu cryn anghyfleustra mewn materion fel archebu ystafelloedd neu gyfathrebu â Chadeiryddion Pwyllgorau. Deallaf y gall Aelodau o bleidiau eraill roi enghreifftiau eraill lle y rhwystrir gwaith Aelodau cyffredin y Cynulliad drwy reolau llawdrwm. Hoffwn ichi wneud sylwadau ar hynny gan ei fod yn mynd yn groes i’r ymrwymiad o fewn Rheolau Sefydlog i Lywodraeth agored a chynhwysol.
Further to that point of order, I support Phil Williams’s point. The Government of Wales Act 1998 establishes the Assembly as a corporate body which is to allow ordinary Members access to some civil service support or to communicate with civil servants. The changes made by the administration preclude us from doing so. We are not meeting the obligations of the Government of Wales Act 1998.
Ymhellach i’r pwynt o drefn hwnnw, cefnogaf bwynt Phil Williams. Mae Deddf Llywodraeth Cymru 1998 yn sefydlu’r Cynulliad fel corff corfforaethol sydd i ganiatáu i Aelodau cyffredin fanteisio ar rywfaint o gefnogaeth y gwasanaeth sifil neu gyfathrebu â gweision sifil. Mae’r newidiadau a wnaethpwyd gan y weinyddiaeth yn ein rhwystro rhag gwneud hynny. Nid ydym yn cyflawni rhwymedigaethau Deddf Llywodraeth Cymru 1998.
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The Minister will have heard your comments. There is nothing to prevent Members from e-mailing anyone who is on the Isis network, as you know. This matter has been discussed in the House Committee and in the information technology sub-committee. It is a matter for the Government of Wales how it chooses to manage its e-mail system. As far as the Presiding Office and the Isis network is concerned, Members have full access to officials and can e-mail whomever they wish.
Bydd y Gweinidog wedi clywed eich sylwadau. Nid oes dim i rwystro’r Aelodau rhag anfon negeseuon e-bost at y sawl sydd ar rwydwaith Isis, fel y gwyddoch. Mae’r mater hwn wedi’i drafod ym Mhwyllgor y Tŷ ac yn yr is-bwyllgor technoleg gwybodaeth. Mater i Lywodraeth Cymru yw sut y dewisa reoli ei system e-bost. O ran Swyddfa’r Llywydd a rhwydwaith Isis, mae rhwydd hynt i’r Aelodau gysylltu â swyddogion ac anfon e-bost at bwy bynnag a fynnont.
Point of order. I raise this under Standing Order No. 6.34 with reference to guidance that you have previously given to Members. On 17 October, I tabled a written question to the Minister for Rural Affairs concerning the designation of boundaries of an infected area. I had tabled this question because his department did not respond to e-mails that I sent on 31 May, 4 June and 20 August. When I finally received a reply on 26 October, the Minister said:
Pwynt o drefn. Codaf hyn o dan Reol Sefydlog Rhif 6.34 mewn perthynas â chyfarwyddyd yr ydych wedi’i roi o’r blaen i’r Aelodau. Ar 17 Hydref, cyflwynais gwestiwn ysgrifenedig i’r Gweinidog dros Faterion Gwledig ynglŷn â phennu ffiniau ardal heintus. Yr oeddwn wedi cyflwyno’r cwestiwn hwn gan nad ymatebodd ei adran i negeseuon e-bost a anfonais ar 31 Mai, 4 Mehefin ac 20 Awst. Pan dderbyniais ateb o’r diwedd ar 26 Hydref, dyma a ddywedodd y Gweinidog:
‘I expect to write to the Member in the next few days.’
‘Disgwyliaf ysgrifennu at yr Aelod yn ystod yr ychydig ddyddiau nesaf.’
Presiding Officer, it is now 8 November, and I have still not received a letter. Could you clarify two issues: first, do you think that it is acceptable for Members to have to table written questions to get a response to correspondence that departments have been sitting on for up to five months? Secondly, should Members expect Ministers to take action in a specified time when they have agreed to do so?
Lywydd, mae’n 8 Tachwedd bellach, ac nid wyf wedi derbyn llythyr o hyd. A allech egluro dau fater: yn gyntaf, a gredwch ei bod yn dderbyniol i’r Aelodau orfod cyflwyno cwestiynau ysgrifenedig er mwyn cael ymateb i ohebiaeth y bu adrannau yn eistedd arni am hyd at bum mis? Yn ail, a ddylai’r Aelodau ddisgwyl i Weinidogion weithredu o fewn cyfnod penodedig pan fyddant wedi cytuno i wneud hynny?
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Responses to ministerial correspondence are not a matter for me as Presiding Officer, but response times are operated by my office and by Cabinet members. I would not welcome Members having to table written questions to solicit answers to correspondence, but if the questions are in order, they may be tabled. Members are also free to draw my attention to the issue as Peter has done this morning. I have no further comments. David Davies has another point of order: we are getting to the bottom of the list.
Nid yw ymatebion i ohebiaeth gweinidogion yn fater i mi fel Llywydd, ond caiff amseroedd ymateb eu gweithredu gan fy swyddfa ac aelodau’r Cabinet. Ni chroesawn sefyllfa lle y byddai’n rhaid i’r Aelodau gyflwyno cwestiynau ysgrifenedig er mwyn cael atebion i ohebiaeth, ond os yw’r cwestiynau yn briodol, gellir eu cyflwyno. Mae’r Aelodau hefyd yn rhydd i dynnu fy sylw at y mater fel y gwnaeth Peter y bore yma. Nid oes gennyf sylwadau pellach. Mae gan David Davies bwynt o drefn arall: yr ydym yn gwneud ein ffordd tuag at waelod y rhestr.
Point of order. I raise this under Standing Order No. 7.8 (v). Earlier this week, an Assembly Member launched an extraordinary attack on Welsh farmers, in which she suggested that they were responsible for the spread of foot and mouth disease. All the evidence suggests that the foot and mouth disease outbreak was caused by illegal meat imports, which this Government is doing little to control. We are unlikely to find the real cause, because the Government, which trumpets its transparency, is refusing calls for a full public inquiry. British farmers play an enormously important role in providing the food that we eat.
Pwynt o drefn. Codaf hyn o dan Reol Sefydlog Rhif 7.8 (v). Yn gynharach yr wythnos hon, lansiodd Aelod o’r Cynulliad ymosodiad hynod ar ffermwyr Cymru, gan awgrymu mai nhw oedd yn gyfrifol am ledu clwy’r traed a’r genau. Awgryma’r holl dystiolaeth mai cig a fewnforiwyd yn anghyfreithlon a achosodd glwy’r traed a’r genau, mater y mae’r Llywodraeth hon yn gwneud fawr ddim i’w reoli. Mae’n annhebygol y canfyddwn y gwir achos, gan fod y Llywodraeth, sy’n datgan ei thryloywder yn groch, yn gwrthod galwadau am ymchwiliad cyhoeddus llawn. Mae ffermwyr Prydain yn chwarae rôl aruthrol o bwysig wrth ddarparu’r bwyd yr ydym yn ei fwyta.
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Order. This is becoming a speech about agriculture.
Trefn. Mae hon yn datblygu’n araith am amaethyddiaeth.
My point of order relates to Standing Order No. 7.8 (v), which states the importance of treating people in a courteous fashion, whether or not they are Assembly Members. British farmers—
Mae fy mhwynt o drefn yn ymwneud â Rheol Sefydlog Rhif 7.8 (v), sy’n nodi pwysigrwydd trin pobl yn gwrtais, pa un a ydynt yn Aelodau o’r Cynulliad ai peidio. Mae ffermwyr Prydain—
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Order. This is not a point of order, but a speech on agriculture. If there is an alleged incident of disorderly or offensive language breaching that Standing Order, Members should either raise it at the time, with whomever is presiding, or immediately afterwards. We try to pay close attention to such matters and, if in reading the Record of Proceedings I observe anything that might be regarded as disorderly or offensive, I will draw the Member’s attention to it. Nothing disorderly or offensive in terms of our order was said at that time.
Trefn. Nid pwynt o drefn yw hwn, ond araith ar amaethyddiaeth. Os bydd achos honedig o iaith afreolus neu sarhaus yn torri’r Rheol Sefydlog honno, dylai’r Aelodau naill ai ei godi ar y pryd, gyda phwy bynnag sy’n llywyddu, neu’n union wedyn. Ceisiwn roi sylw manwl i faterion o’r fath ac, os wrth ddarllen Cofnod y Trafodion y sylwaf ar rywbeth y gellid ei ystyried yn afreolus neu’n sarhaus, tynnaf sylw’r Aelod ato. Ni ddywedwyd dim afreolus neu sarhaus o ran ein trefn ar y pryd.
Peter Rogers, I neglected to call you on another point of order; I thought that you had covered it earlier. If you have something to add, you may speak now.
Peter Rogers, anghofiais alw arnoch ynghylch pwynt o drefn arall; yr oeddwn yn meddwl eich bod wedi’i gwmpasu yn gynharach. Os oes gennych rywbeth i’w ychwanegu, cewch siarad yn awr.
I raise this point of order under Standing Order No. 6.3 (iv). Presiding Officer, I detect widespread concern among Members about the general tardiness of replies to written questions and correspondence. Members can wait months without explanation or a holding reply, for answers to the most basic inquiries. Am I—
Codaf y pwynt o drefn hwn o dan Reol Sefydlog Rhif 6.3 (iv). Lywydd, synhwyraf bryder cyffredinol ymhlith yr Aelodau ynglŷn â’r arafwch cyffredinol wrth ateb cwestiynau ysgrifenedig a gohebiaeth. Gall Aelodau aros misoedd heb esboniad nac ateb dros dro, am atebion i’r ymholiadau mwyaf sylfaenol. A wyf—
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Order. This seems to be the same as the point that you made earlier.
Trefn. Dyma’r pwynt a wnaethoch yn gynharach yn ôl pob golwg.
Can we establish, on an Assembly-wide basis, how many written answers are answered on their due date? My previous attempts to do that have proved fruitless, as I am told that the information is not available. That is also true of letters to departments. I am not aware of any record of the time that it takes Ministers to answer Members’ correspondence. Is it not time that we published waiting lists, so that we can see how well Ministers perform in dealing with Members who are trying to defend their constituents’ interests?
A allwn sefydlu, wrth ystyried pob rhan o’r Cynulliad, faint o atebion ysgrifenedig a atebir ar eu dyddiad disgwyliedig? Mae fy ymdrechion blaenorol i wneud hynny wedi methu, gan nad yw’r wybodaeth ar gael yn ôl yr hyn a ddywedir wrthyf. Mae hynny hefyd yn wir am lythyrau i adrannau. Nid wyf yn ymwybodol o gofnod o’r amser y cymer i Weinidogion ateb gohebiaeth Aelodau. Onid yw’n bryd inni gyhoeddi rhestrau aros, fel y gallwn weld pa mor dda yw perfformiad Gweinidogion wrth ymdrin ag Aelodau sy’n ceisio amddiffyn buddiannau eu hetholwyr?
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Order. I dealt with the question of lateness in answering questions or using holding answers last week. I made the position clear then. If Peter has received an answer stating that information is unavailable, I must tell him that that is an answer. It is up to you, Peter, to respond by asking further questions which will demonstrate your view of the answer received, if you can elicit further answers from the Minister concerned. However, you have received an answer. You may not agree with it, and I may not agree with it, but you have received an answer. Nothing further can be said on this matter.
Trefn. Ymdriniais â’r mater o gymryd amser wrth ateb cwestiynau neu ddefnyddio atebion dros dro yr wythnos diwethaf. Eglurais y sefyllfa ar y pryd. Os yw Peter wedi derbyn ateb yn nodi nad oes gwybodaeth ar gael, rhaid imi ddweud wrtho bod hynny’n ateb. Mater i chi, Peter, yw ymateb drwy ofyn cwestiynau pellach a fydd yn dangos eich barn am yr ateb a dderbyniwyd, os gallwch gael atebion pellach oddi wrth y Gweinidog dan sylw. Fodd bynnag, yr ydych wedi cael ateb. Efallai na chytunwch ag ef, ac efallai nad wyf i’n cytuno ag ef, ond yr ydych wedi cael ateb. Ni ellir dweud dim pellach ar y mater hwn.
The problem that we encountered was that the First Minister gave guidance around a year ago, that he expected replies to be given within 18 or 19 working days of the inquiry. That was the First Minister’s guidance in reply to an oral question and it is not being adhered to.
Y broblem y daethom ar ei thraws oedd i Brif Weinidog Cymru roi arweiniad tua blwyddyn yn ôl, ei fod yn disgwyl i atebion gael eu rhoi o fewn 18 neu 19 o ddyddiau gwaith i’r ymholiad. Dyna oedd arweiniad y Prif Weinidog mewn ymateb i gwestiwn llafar ac ni lynir ato.
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If the First Minister has issued a letter to Members on this matter, in addition to the guidance on Assembly questions that we all have, then Peter can take that matter up with him.
Os yw Prif Weinidog Cymru wedi anfon llythyr at yr Aelodau ar y mater hwn, yn ychwanegol at yr arweiniad ar gwestiynau’r Cynulliad sydd gan bob un ohonom, yna gall Peter godi’r mater hwnnw gydag ef.
Further to that point of order, I previously raised a matter concerning an answer that I had received from the Minister for Education and Lifelong Learning. It was in response to the question ‘When does she propose to announce a rural schools policy for Wales?’, which was tabled on 22 October. It is not a difficult question, even for the Minister, yet I did not receive a response to it until 31 October at 7 p.m., after the policy had been announced earlier that day. Is that within the letter and spirit of Standing Orders? I received a two-line reply, and it took some 10 days. Is that response, at 7 p.m., outside Standing Orders given our current family-friendly hours? Or does it indicate—and I hope that it does—a move towards sitting until 6.30 p.m. or 7 p.m. on a Tuesday? Many of us would welcome that. That is a supplementary point about the working hours of this Assembly. However, that kind of response, in 10 days, and given after the rural schools policy has been published, is disruptive to our work. It forces my party into a position whereby Members will table many questions to disrupt business, unless we have some co-operation from the Cabinet on information that is in the public domain. A two-line answer could have been given within hours.
Ymhellach i’r pwynt o drefn hwnnw, codais fater yn flaenorol ynglŷn ag ateb a gefais gan y Gweinidog dros Addysg a Dysgu Gydol Oes. Ateb ydoedd i’r cwestiwn ‘Pryd y bwriada gyhoeddi polisi ysgolion gwledig ar gyfer Cymru?’, a gyflwynwyd ar 22 Hydref. Nid yw’n gwestiwn anodd, hyd yn oed i’r Gweinidog, ac eto ni chefais ateb tan 31 Hydref am 7 p.m., ar ôl i’r polisi gael ei gyhoeddi yn gynharach y diwrnod hwnnw. A yw hynny o fewn llythyren ac ysbryd Rheolau Sefydlog? Cefais ateb o ddwy linell, a chymerodd tua 10 diwrnod. A yw’r ymateb hwnnw, am 7 p.m., y tu allan i Reolau Sefydlog o gofio ein horiau cyfeillgar i deuluoedd ar hyn o bryd? Neu a yw’n dynodi—a dyma yr wyf yn ei obeithio—cam tuag at eistedd tan 6.30 p.m. neu 7 p.m. ar ddydd Mawrth? Byddai llawer ohonom yn croesawu hynny. Mae hwnnw’n bwynt atodol ynglŷn ag oriau gwaith y Cynulliad hwn. Fodd bynnag, mae’r math hwnnw o ymateb, mewn 10 diwrnod, a hynny ar ôl i’r polisi ysgolion gwledig gael ei gyhoeddi, yn tarfu ar ein gwaith. Mae’n gorfodi fy mhlaid i sefyllfa lle y bydd yr Aelodau yn cyflwyno llawer o gwestiynau er mwyn aflonyddu ar fusnes, oni chawn gydweithrediad y Cabinet ar wybodaeth sydd ar gael i’r cyhoedd. Gellid bod wedi rhoi ateb dwy linell o fewn oriau.
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Order. I hope that Members will not seek to use our Standing Orders to be disruptive, but to obtain information. However, in this case, I can be helpful to the Leader of the Welsh Conservatives. Our Standing Orders specify that the Minister for Assembly Business must avoid programming business after 5.30 p.m. That implies that written answers to questions should not generally be sent after that time.
Trefn. Gobeithiaf na fydd yr Aelodau yn ceisio defnyddio ein Rheolau Sefydlog er mwyn tarfu ar waith, ond er mwyn cael gwybodaeth. Fodd bynnag, yn yr achos hwn, gallaf fod o gymorth i Arweinydd Ceidwadwyr Cymru. Mae ein Rheolau Sefydlog yn nodi’n benodol bod yn rhaid i’r Trefnydd osgoi rhaglennu busnes ar ôl 5.30 p.m. Mae hynny’n awgrymu na ddylid anfon atebion ysgrifenedig i gwestiynau yn gyffredinol ar ôl yr amser hwnnw.
Further to that point of order—
Ymhellach i’r pwynt o drefn hwnnw—
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Not on this again?
Nid ar hyn eto?
I raise it in my usual constructive way.
Fe’i codaf yn fy ffordd adeiladol arferol.
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I have just been constructive.
Yr wyf newydd fod yn adeiladol.
I wish to pursue this point of order from another angle. It is clear that we cannot go on raising points of order—
Hoffwn fynd ar drywydd y pwynt o drefn hwn o ongl arall. Mae’n amlwg na allwn barhau i godi pwyntiau o drefn—
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You are doing a good job of it.
Yr ydych chi’n dda iawn wrthi.
We cannot go on having to raise points of order on the delays in receiving answers to written Assembly questions. You may recall that it was a manifesto commitment of one of the administration parties to cut Ministers’ pay unless they performed to the expectation of Assembly Members. We can clearly improve performance on this and save money.
Ni allwn barhau i orfod codi pwyntiau o drefn ar yr oedi wrth dderbyn atebion i gwestiynau ysgrifenedig y Cynulliad. Efallai y cofiwch fod gostwng cyflog Gweinidogion oni bai eu bod yn perfformio yn ôl disgwyliad Aelodau’r Cynulliad yn ymrwymiad maniffesto un o bleidiau’r weinyddiaeth. Mae’n amlwg y gallwn wella perfformiad yn hyn o beth ac arbed arian.
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Order. I am not in charge of the manifesto commitments of any party in this Chamber.
Trefn. Nid fi sy’n gyfrifol am ymrwymiadau maniffesto unrhyw un o bleidiau’r Siambr hon.
Point of order. I raise this under Standing Order No. 6.26, which relates to the accuracy of answers given in this Chamber. On Tuesday, I raised with the First Minister the issue of his leadership—which I have raised previously—and his influence on the Government’s bringing forward legislation. He said that since the Assembly had been in place, two measures had been brought forward and that during the 18 years of the previous Government, there were also only two. I can understand why the First Minister would wish to denigrate the previous Government’s record. However, I am concerned that the statement was inaccurate. I placed an inquiry in the Library, but I know that during that time the Broadcasting Act 1980 established S4C, we had the Welsh Language Act 1993, local government was reorganised and the Cardiff Bay Barrage Bill was also passed. Is it not now appropriate for the First Minister to correct his statement or apologise to this Assembly for misleading it?
Pwynt o drefn. Codaf hyn o dan Reol Sefydlog Rhif 6.26, sy’n ymwneud â chywirdeb yr atebion a roddir yn y Siambr hon. Ddydd Mawrth, codais fater arweinyddiaeth Prif Weinidog Cymru gydag ef—mater yr wyf wedi ei godi o’r blaen—a’i ddylanwad ar broses y Llywodraeth o gyflwyno deddfwriaeth. Dywedodd, ers i’r Cynulliad ddod i fodolaeth, y cyflwynwyd dau fesur ac yn ystod 18 mlynedd y Llywodraeth flaenorol hefyd, mai dau yn unig a gyflwynwyd. Gallaf ddeall pam y byddai Prif Weinidog Cymru am bardduo record y Llywodraeth flaenorol. Fodd bynnag, pryderaf fod y datganiad yn anghywir. Cyflwynais gais am wybodaeth i’r Llyfrgell, ond gwn yn ystod y cyfnod hwnnw i Ddeddf Darlledu 1980 sefydlu S4C, cawsom Ddeddf yr Iaith Gymraeg 1993, ad-drefnwyd llywodraeth leol a phasiwyd Mesur Morglawdd Bae Caerdydd hefyd. Onid yw’n briodol yn awr i Brif Weinidog Cymru gywiro ei ddatganiad neu ymddiheuro i’r Cynulliad hwn am ei gamarwain?
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No. As I have made clear on several occasions, I do not write Minister’s speeches and I am not responsible for their content, provided that they are in order.
Nac ydyw. Fel yr eglurais ar sawl achlysur, nid fi sy’n ysgrifennu areithiau Gweinidogion ac nid fi sy’n gyfrifol am eu cynnwys, cyn belled â’u bod mewn trefn.
Point of order. This concerns today’s agenda. Item 8, as displayed on the agenda, is a debate on the Agriculture and Rural Development Committee’s report on the diversification of the rural economy. Above it is stated that, ‘This item will not be moved.’ Who is in charge, Llywydd? What is going on? Why is the public being told things that are clearly wrong? Furthermore, the Minister for Assembly Business told us on Tuesday that he proposed to move Jane Davidson’s questions from Thursday to Tuesday and that it would it be subject to a Plenary motion. That is on record. What contempt does that show of Plenary?
Pwynt o drefn. Mae a wnelo hyn ag agenda heddiw. Mae eitem 8, fel y dangosir ar yr agenda, yn ddadl ar adroddiad y Pwyllgor Amaethyddiaeth a Datblygu Gwledig ar arallgyfeirio’r economi wledig. Uwch ei ben nodir ‘Ni symudir yr eitem hon.’ Pwy sy’n rheoli, Lywydd? Beth sy’n digwydd? Pam y dywedir pethau wrth y cyhoedd sy’n amlwg yn anghywir? At hynny, dywedodd y Trefnydd wrthym ddydd Mawrth ei fod yn bwriadu symud cwestiynau Jane Davidson o ddydd Iau i ddydd Mawrth ac y byddai’n amodol ar gynnig yn y Cyfarfod Llawn. Mae hynny wedi’i gofnodi. Pa ddirmyg y mae hynny’n ei ddangos at y Cyfarfod Llawn?
Further to that point of order, under Standing Order No. 6, it is clear that Assembly Ministers will answer questions in relation to their ministerial portfolios on the allocated days. In addition, Standing Order No. 6.3A states clearly that if a Minister is unable to attend Plenary on the day allocated to him or her to answer ministerial questions, the Presiding Officer may allow another Assembly Minister to answer those questions tabled on behalf of that Minister. It is not in the spirit of Standing Orders, and may be in breach of Standing Orders, to move the time allotted for the Minister for Education and Lifelong Learning to answer questions from Thursday, 29 November to Tuesday, 27 November. If it is not in breach of Standing Orders, it certainly displays a gross discourtesy to this Chamber. I understand if other Cabinet Members do not wish to answer questions on behalf of the Minister—after all they do not have her flair and flamboyance. However, Standing Order No. 6.3A allows for another Assembly Minister to take charge at that moment and answer questions in Jane Davidson’s absence.
Ymhellach i’r pwynt o drefn hwnnw, o dan Reol Sefydlog Rhif 6, mae’n amlwg y bydd Gweinidogion y Cynulliad yn ateb cwestiynau mewn perthynas â’u portffolio gweinidogol ar y dyddiau penodedig. Yn ogystal, mae Rheol Sefydlog Rhif 6.3A yn nodi’n glir, os na all Gweinidog fynychu Cyfarfod Llawn ar y dydd a neilltuwyd iddo ef neu iddi hi i ateb cwestiynau gweinidogol, gall y Llywydd ganiatáu i un arall o Weinidogion y Cynulliad ateb y cwestiynau hynny a gyflwynwyd ar ran y Gweinidog hwnnw. Nid yw symud yr amser a ddyrennir i’r Gweinidog dros Addysg a Dysgu Gydol Oes i ateb cwestiynau dydd Iau, 29 Tachwedd i ddydd Mawrth, 27 Tachwedd, yn cydweddu ag ysbryd Rheolau Sefydlog, a gallai fod yn eu torri. Os nad yw’n torri Rheolau Sefydlog, mae’n sicr yn dangos anghwrteisi mawr i’r Siambr hon. Deallaf os nad yw Aelodau eraill y Cabinet am ateb cwestiynau ar ran y Gweinidog—wedi’r cyfan nid oes ganddynt ei dawn a’i lliwgarwch. Fodd bynnag, mae Rheol Sefydlog Rhif 6.3A yn caniatáu i un arall o Weinidogion y Cynulliad ymgymryd â’r cyfrifoldeb y pryd hwnnw ac ateb cwestiynau yn absenoldeb Jane Davidson.
Dafydd Elis-Thomas The Presiding Officer spoken in English p. 47
Dafydd Elis-Thomas Y Llywydd siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 47
On the timing of questions, the only way in which oral questions could be transferred to another date would be by suspending that particular Standing Order. That is the only way of doing it. That can only be done by a two-thirds majority vote in favour in the Assembly. That would be an extraordinary course of events. I would always encourage Ministers, and Members, wherever possible, to attend Assembly as a priority. There are occasionally unavoidable circumstances. However, timing of questions can only be changed, not by my say-so, but by suspending Standing Orders, which requires a two-thirds majority in favour.
O ran amseru cwestiynau, yr unig ffordd y gellid trosglwyddo cwestiynau llafar i ddyddiad arall fyddai drwy ohirio’r Rheol Sefydlog arbennig honno. Dyna’r unig ffordd o’i wneud. Dim ond drwy fod mwyafrif o ddwy ran o dair o’r pleidleisiau o blaid y gellir gwneud hynny yn y Cynulliad. Byddai hynny’n rhywbeth hynod. Byddwn yn annog y Gweinidogion, a’r Aelodau, bob amser, lle bynnag y bo’n bosibl, i ystyried bod eu presenoldeb yn y Cynulliad yn flaenoriaeth. O bryd i’w gilydd mae amgylchiadau yn codi na ellir eu hosgoi. Fodd bynnag, dim ond drwy ohirio Rheolau Sefydlog y gellir newid amseru cwestiynau—nid oes gen i lais yn y mater—ac mae hynny’n galw am fwyafrif o ddwy ran o dair o blaid.
The agenda is not dictated by me, or even directly by the Government. It is the result of deliberations in the Business Committee, and it is then approved in Plenary in the business statement, provided there is no objection to it and it is not rejected as a result of a vote following that objection. If an item on today’s agenda is not proposed, that is a matter for the proposers of the motion.
Nid fi sy’n penderfynu ar yr agenda, na’r Llywodraeth ychwaith yn uniongyrchol. Canlyniad trafodaethau’r Pwyllgor Busnes ydyw, ac yna fe’i cymeradwyir yn y Cyfarfod Llawn yn y datganiad busnes, ar yr amod nad oes gwrthwynebiad iddo ac nas gwrthodir ef o ganlyniad i bleidlais yn dilyn y gwrthwynebiad hwnnw. Oni chynigir eitem ar agenda heddiw, mater i’r sawl a gyflwynodd y cynnig ydyw.
Cymeradwyo’r Gorchymyn ar y cyd, the Plant Breeders Rights (Fees) (Amendment)
Regulations 2001 Approval of the Joint Order, the Plant Breeders Rights (Fees) (Amendment) Regulations 2001
Carwyn Jones The Minister for Rural Affairs spoken in English p. 48
Carwyn Jones Y Gweinidog dros Faterion Gwledig siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 48
I propose that
Cynigiaf fod
Dafydd Elis-Thomas Y Llywydd siaradwyd yn Gymraeg t. 48
Dafydd Elis-Thomas The Presiding Officer spoken in Welsh p. 48
O dan Reol Sefydlog Rhif 22.25, ni chynhelir dadl ar y cynnig hwn.
Under Standing Order No. 22.25, this motion is not subject to debate.
Cynnig NDM827 Carwyn Jones t. 48
Motion NDM827 Carwyn Jones p. 48
DerbyniwydAdopted O blaidFor 35 YmatalAbstain 3 Yn erbynAgainst 0
Derbyniwyd y cynnig.
Motion carried.
Sut y pleidleisiodd yr AelodauHow Members voted
O blaidFor (35)
- Lorraine Barrett
- Mick Bates
- Peter Black
- Nick Bourne
- Alun Cairns
- Glyn Davies
- Jocelyn Davies
- Ron Davies
- Richard Edwards
- Sue Essex
- Delyth Evans
- Michael German
- Brian Gibbons
- William Graham
- Janice Gregory
- John Griffiths
- Christine Gwyther
- Alison Halford
- Edwina Hart
- Carwyn Jones
- Ieuan Wyn Jones
- Peter Law
- Val Lloyd
- David Melding
- Tom Middlehurst
- Jonathan Morgan
- Lynne Neagle
- Jenny Randerson
- Rod Richards
- Peter Rogers
- Janet Ryder
- Owen John Thomas
- Rhodri Glyn Thomas
- Dafydd Wigley
- Phil Williams
YmatalAbstain (3)
- Brian Hancock
- Gareth Jones
- David Lloyd
Cymeradwyo Chwech o Reoliadau Marchnata Hadau
Approval of Six Seed Marketing Regulations
Carwyn Jones The Minister for Rural Affairs spoken in English p. 49
Carwyn Jones Y Gweinidog dros Faterion Gwledig siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 49
I propose that
Cynigiaf fod
Carwyn Jones The Minister for Rural Affairs (continued) spoken in English p. 49
Carwyn Jones Y Gweinidog dros Faterion Gwledig (parhad) siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 49
I propose that
Cynigiaf fod
Carwyn Jones The Minister for Rural Affairs (continued) spoken in English p. 49
Carwyn Jones Y Gweinidog dros Faterion Gwledig (parhad) siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 49
I propose that
Cynigiaf fod
Carwyn Jones The Minister for Rural Affairs (continued) spoken in English p. 49
Carwyn Jones Y Gweinidog dros Faterion Gwledig (parhad) siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 49
I propose that
Cynigiaf fod
Carwyn Jones The Minister for Rural Affairs (continued) spoken in English p. 50
Carwyn Jones Y Gweinidog dros Faterion Gwledig (parhad) siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 50
I propose that
Cynigiaf fod
Carwyn Jones The Minister for Rural Affairs (continued) spoken in English p. 50
Carwyn Jones Y Gweinidog dros Faterion Gwledig (parhad) siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 50
I propose that
Cynigiaf fod
Carwyn Jones The Minister for Rural Affairs (continued) spoken in English p. 50
Carwyn Jones Y Gweinidog dros Faterion Gwledig (parhad) siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 50
I propose that
Cynigiaf fod
Carwyn Jones The Minister for Rural Affairs (continued) spoken in English p. 50
Carwyn Jones Y Gweinidog dros Faterion Gwledig (parhad) siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 50
I propose that
Cynigiaf fod
Carwyn Jones The Minister for Rural Affairs (continued) spoken in English p. 51
Carwyn Jones Y Gweinidog dros Faterion Gwledig (parhad) siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 51
I propose that
Cynigiaf fod
Carwyn Jones The Minister for Rural Affairs (continued) spoken in English p. 51
Carwyn Jones Y Gweinidog dros Faterion Gwledig (parhad) siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 51
I propose that
Cynigiaf fod
Carwyn Jones The Minister for Rural Affairs (continued) spoken in English p. 51
Carwyn Jones Y Gweinidog dros Faterion Gwledig (parhad) siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 51
I propose that
Cynigiaf fod
Carwyn Jones The Minister for Rural Affairs (continued) spoken in English p. 51
Carwyn Jones Y Gweinidog dros Faterion Gwledig (parhad) siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 51
I propose that
Cynigiaf fod
Carwyn Jones The Minister for Rural Affairs (continued) spoken in English p. 52
Carwyn Jones Y Gweinidog dros Faterion Gwledig (parhad) siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 52
Together with the Seeds (National List of Varieties) Regulations 2001, which were approved by the Assembly on 23 October, these regulations fully implement European Council directives 98/95/EC and 98/96/EC, which introduce amendments to the common catalogue directive. They will be made under sections 16 and 36 of the Plant Varieties and Seeds Act 1964 on a Wales only basis. They will ensure that the National Assembly complies with the requirements of the EU seed marketing system, and they fulfil the Assembly’s duty to implement community legislation under section 106(1) of the Government of Wales Act 1998. The deadline for implementing the directives was 1 February 2000, so we are in breach of EU obligations, which is a sound reason why the regulations need to be approved today.
Ynghyd â Rheoliadau Hadau (Rhestr Amrywogaethau Genedlaethol) 2001, a gymeradwywyd gan y Cynulliad ar 23 Hydref, mae’r rheoliadau hyn yn llawn weithredu cyfarwyddebau 98/95/EC a 98/96/EC y Cyngor Ewropeaidd, sy’n cyflwyno newidiadau i gyfarwyddeb y catalog cyffredin. Cânt eu gwneud o dan adrannau 16 a 36 Deddf Amrywogaethau Planhigion a Hadau 1964 ar sail Cymru yn unig. Byddant yn sicrhau bod y Cynulliad Cenedlaethol yn cydymffurfio â gofynion system marchnata hadau yr UE, ac maent yn cyflawni dyletswydd y Cynulliad i roi deddfwriaeth gymunedol ar waith o dan adran 106(1) Deddf Llywodraeth Cymru 1998. Y terfyn amser ar gyfer gweithredu’r cyfarwyddebau oedd 1 Chwefror 2000, felly yr ydym yn torri rhwymedigaethau yr UE, sy’n rheswm cadarn pam bod angen cymeradwyo’r rheoliadau heddiw.
The regulations introduce for the first time strict and transparent controls on the marketing of genetically modified seed of the main agricultural and vegetable varieties and will require that: first, GM seeds and seed potatoes must be clearly labelled as being genetically modified in catalogues, sales material, and on any other labels or documentation. Secondly, no genetically modified organism can be deliberately released unless it has received authorised consent under the directive under part B or part C. Thirdly, the marketing of GM seed and seed potatoes in small quantities, which are to be marketed under official certification, must have either part B or part C consent. Furthermore, all appropriate measures, in terms of an environmental risk assessment required by the catalogue directive, must have been taken by the provider to avoid adverse effects on human health and the environment.
Mae’r rheoliadau yn cyflwyno am y tro cyntaf reolaethau llym a thryloyw ar farchnata hadau’r prif amrywogaethau amaethyddol a llysiau a addaswyd yn enetig a bydd yn galw am y canlynol: yn gyntaf, rhaid labelu hadau a thatws hadyd a addaswyd yn enetig yn glir mewn catalogau, deunydd gwerthu, ac ar unrhyw labeli neu ddogfennaeth eu bod wedi’u haddasu yn enetig. Yn ail, ni ellir rhyddhau organeb a addaswyd yn enetig ar bwrpas oni fydd wedi cael caniatâd o dan y gyfarwyddeb o dan ran B neu ran C. Yn drydydd, rhaid cael caniatâd naill ai ran B neu ran C er mwyn marchnata hadau a thatws hadyd a addaswyd yn enetig mewn symiau bach, sydd i’w marchnata o dan ardystiad swyddogol. At hynny, rhaid i’r darparwr fod wedi cymryd pob mesur priodol yn nhermau asesiad risg amgylcheddol sy’n ofynnol gan y gyfarwyddeb catalog, er mwyn osgoi effeithiau andwyol ar iechyd dynol a’r amgylchedd.
The Plaid Cymru group’s views on the growing of GM crops in Wales outside of a controlled environment are well known. Members will be aware that recently we voted against seed regulations. We considered these regulations carefully and, although we recognise the need for labelling and traceability, they do not go far enough. We will therefore abstain on these Orders. I understand that the Minister has held back on them until now, in the hope of getting these seed regulations passed.
Mae barn grŵp Plaid Cymru ar dyfu cnydau a addaswyd yn enetig yng Nghymru y tu allan i amgylchedd a reolwyd yn hysbys. Bydd yr Aelodau yn gwybod inni bleidleisio yn erbyn rheoliadau hadau yn ddiweddar. Ystyriwyd y rheoliadau hyn yn ofalus gennym ac, er ein bod yn cydnabod yr angen am labelu ac olrheiniadwyedd, nid ânt yn ddigon pell. Byddwn yn ymatal ein pleidlais felly ar y Gorchmynion hyn. Deallaf i’r Gweinidog ddal yn ôl arnynt hyd yn awr, yn y gobaith o basio’r rheoliadau hadau hyn.
I will be brief. We have had extensive discussions on these Orders in Committee and in the GM strategy group and I am satisfied that we have been able to make good progress in promoting the Assembly’s wish to have a GM policy that is as restrictive as possible. We are also attending a seminar on genetic modification in Brussels in a fortnight’s time. The Welsh Conservative group is happy to approve these regulations.
Byddaf yn gryno. Cawsom drafodaethau helaeth ar y Gorchmynion hyn yn y Pwyllgor ac yn y grŵp strategaeth addasu genetig ac yr wyf yn fodlon inni allu gwneud cynnydd da wrth hyrwyddo dymuniad y Cynulliad i gael polisi addasu genetig sydd mor gyfyngol â phosibl. Yr ydym hefyd yn mynychu seminar ar addasu genetig ym Mrwsel ymhen pythefnos. Mae grŵp Ceidwadwyr Cymru yn hapus i gymeradwyo’r rheoliadau hyn.
I will be equally brief. We welcome these regulations as they impose a requirement for the labelling and identification of GM seed varieties. No such requirement exists at present. It is in line with the partnership document, which expressed our desire to restrict the growing of GM crops as much as possible. However, one aspect of these regulations disappoints me and I would like to know whether it is true that no regulatory impact assessments were undertaken on these six pieces of legislation.
Byddaf innau yr un mor gryno. Croesawn y rheoliadau hyn gan eu bod yn gwneud y gofyniad i labelu a nodi amrywogaethau hadau a addaswyd yn enetig yn orfodol. Nid oes gofyniad o’r fath yn bodoli ar hyn o bryd. Mae’n unol â’r ddogfen bartneriaeth, a fynegodd ein dymuniad i gyfyngu ar dyfu cnydau a addaswyd yn enetig gymaint â phosibl. Fodd bynnag, mae un agwedd ar y rheoliadau hyn yn fy siomi a hoffwn wybod a yw’n wir nad ymgymerwyd ag asesiadau effaith rheoleiddiol ar y chwe darn hyn o ddeddfwriaeth.
Carwyn Jones The Minister for Rural Affairs spoken in English p. 53
Carwyn Jones Y Gweinidog dros Faterion Gwledig siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 53
I did not hear your remarks. Could you repeat them?
Ni chlywais eich sylwadau. A allech eu hailadrodd?
I would like to know whether regulatory impact assessments were undertaken on these six pieces of legislation.
Hoffwn wybod a ymgymerwyd ag asesiadau effaith rheoleiddiol ar y chwe darn hyn o ddeddfwriaeth.
Assessments were not undertaken, but we must remember that we are under time constraints in respect of these regulations. It is important that the Assembly considers that and approves them. They have been before the Agriculture and Rural Development Committee and the GM strategy group, where people have had a full opportunity to comment on them.
Nid ymgymerwyd ag asesiadau, ond rhaid inni gofio bod cyfyngiadau amser arnom o ran y rheoliadau hyn. Mae’n bwysig i’r Cynulliad ystyried hynny a’u cymeradwyo. Buont gerbron y Pwyllgor Amaethyddiaeth a Datblygu Gwledig a’r grŵp strategaeth addasu genetig, lle y cafodd pobl gyfle llawn i wneud sylwadau arnynt.
Dafydd Elis-Thomas Y Llywydd siaradwyd yn Gymraeg t. 54
Dafydd Elis-Thomas The Presiding Officer spoken in Welsh p. 54
Pleidleisiwn yn awr ar egwyddor y Rheoliadau Hadau Betys.
We will now vote on the principle of the Beet Seeds Regulations.
Cynnig NDM815 Carwyn Jones t. 54
Motion NDM815 Carwyn Jones p. 54
DerbyniwydAdopted O blaidFor 31 YmatalAbstain 11 Yn erbynAgainst 0
Derbyniwyd y cynnig.
Motion carried.
Sut y pleidleisiodd yr AelodauHow Members voted
O blaidFor (31)
- Lorraine Barrett
- Mick Bates
- Peter Black
- Nick Bourne
- Eleanor Burnham
- Alun Cairns
- David Davies
- Glyn Davies
- Andrew Davies
- Ron Davies
- Richard Edwards
- Sue Essex
- Delyth Evans
- Michael German
- William Graham
- Janice Gregory
- John Griffiths
- Christine Gwyther
- Alison Halford
- Edwina Hart
- Jane Hutt
- Carwyn Jones
- Peter Law
- Val Lloyd
- David Melding
- Tom Middlehurst
- Jenny Randerson
- Rod Richards
- Peter Rogers
- Karen Sinclair
- Gwenda Thomas
YmatalAbstain (11)
- Cynog Dafis
- Geraint Davies
- Jocelyn Davies
- Brian Hancock
- Ieuan Wyn Jones
- David Lloyd
- Janet Ryder
- Owen John Thomas
- Rhodri Glyn Thomas
- Dafydd Wigley
- Phil Williams
Dafydd Elis-Thomas Y Llywydd siaradwyd yn Gymraeg t. 54
Dafydd Elis-Thomas The Presiding Officer spoken in Welsh p. 54
Pleidleisiwn yn awr ar gymeradwyo’r Gorchymyn.
We will now vote on approving the Order.
Cynnig NDM816 Carwyn Jones t. 54
Motion NDM816 Carwyn Jones p. 54
DerbyniwydAdopted O blaidFor 31 YmatalAbstain 10 Yn erbynAgainst 0
Derbyniwyd y cynnig.
Motion carried.
Sut y pleidleisiodd yr AelodauHow Members voted
O blaidFor (31)
- Lorraine Barrett
- Mick Bates
- Peter Black
- Nick Bourne
- Eleanor Burnham
- Alun Cairns
- David Davies
- Glyn Davies
- Andrew Davies
- Ron Davies
- Richard Edwards
- Sue Essex
- Delyth Evans
- Michael German
- William Graham
- Janice Gregory
- John Griffiths
- Christine Gwyther
- Alison Halford
- Edwina Hart
- Jane Hutt
- Carwyn Jones
- Peter Law
- Val Lloyd
- David Melding
- Tom Middlehurst
- Jenny Randerson
- Rod Richards
- Peter Rogers
- Karen Sinclair
- Gwenda Thomas
YmatalAbstain (10)
- Geraint Davies
- Jocelyn Davies
- Brian Hancock
- Ieuan Wyn Jones
- David Lloyd
- Janet Ryder
- Owen John Thomas
- Rhodri Glyn Thomas
- Dafydd Wigley
- Phil Williams
Dafydd Elis-Thomas Y Llywydd siaradwyd yn Gymraeg t. 55
Dafydd Elis-Thomas The Presiding Officer spoken in Welsh p. 55
Pleidleisiwn yn awr ar egwyddor y Rheoliadau Hadau Grawnfwydydd.
We will now vote on the principle of the Cereal Seeds Regulations.
Cynnig NDM817 Carwyn Jones t. 55
Motion NDM817 Carwyn Jones p. 55
DerbyniwydAdopted O blaidFor 31 YmatalAbstain 10 Yn erbynAgainst 0
Derbyniwyd y cynnig.
Motion carried.
Sut y pleidleisiodd yr AelodauHow Members voted
O blaidFor (31)
- Lorraine Barrett
- Mick Bates
- Peter Black
- Nick Bourne
- Eleanor Burnham
- Alun Cairns
- David Davies
- Glyn Davies
- Andrew Davies
- Ron Davies
- Richard Edwards
- Sue Essex
- Delyth Evans
- Michael German
- William Graham
- Janice Gregory
- John Griffiths
- Christine Gwyther
- Alison Halford
- Edwina Hart
- Jane Hutt
- Carwyn Jones
- Peter Law
- Val Lloyd
- David Melding
- Tom Middlehurst
- Alun Pugh
- Jenny Randerson
- Rod Richards
- Karen Sinclair
- Gwenda Thomas
YmatalAbstain (10)
- Geraint Davies
- Jocelyn Davies
- Brian Hancock
- Ieuan Wyn Jones
- David Lloyd
- Janet Ryder
- Owen John Thomas
- Rhodri Glyn Thomas
- Dafydd Wigley
- Phil Williams
Dafydd Elis-Thomas Y Llywydd siaradwyd yn Gymraeg t. 56
Dafydd Elis-Thomas The Presiding Officer spoken in Welsh p. 56
Pleidleisiwn yn awr ar gymeradwyo’r Gorchymyn.
We will now vote on approving the Order.
Cynnig NDM818 Carwyn Jones t. 56
Motion NDM818 Carwyn Jones p. 56
DerbyniwydAdopted O blaidFor 31 YmatalAbstain 10 Yn erbynAgainst 0
Derbyniwyd y cynnig.
Motion carried.
Sut y pleidleisiodd yr AelodauHow Members voted
O blaidFor (31)
- Mick Bates
- Peter Black
- Nick Bourne
- Eleanor Burnham
- Alun Cairns
- David Davies
- Glyn Davies
- Andrew Davies
- Ron Davies
- Richard Edwards
- Sue Essex
- Delyth Evans
- Michael German
- William Graham
- Janice Gregory
- John Griffiths
- Christine Gwyther
- Alison Halford
- Edwina Hart
- Jane Hutt
- Carwyn Jones
- Peter Law
- Val Lloyd
- David Melding
- Tom Middlehurst
- Alun Pugh
- Jenny Randerson
- Rod Richards
- Peter Rogers
- Karen Sinclair
- Gwenda Thomas
YmatalAbstain (10)
- Geraint Davies
- Jocelyn Davies
- Brian Hancock
- Ieuan Wyn Jones
- David Lloyd
- Janet Ryder
- Owen John Thomas
- Rhodri Glyn Thomas
- Dafydd Wigley
- Phil Williams
Dafydd Elis-Thomas Y Llywydd siaradwyd yn Gymraeg t. 57
Dafydd Elis-Thomas The Presiding Officer spoken in Welsh p. 57
Pleidleisiwn yn awr ar egwyddor y Rheoliadau Hadau Planhigion Porthiant.
We will now vote on the principle of the Fodder Plant Seeds Regulations.
Cynnig NDM819 Carwyn Jones t. 57
Motion NDM819 Carwyn Jones p. 57
DerbyniwydAdopted O blaidFor 32 YmatalAbstain 11 Yn erbynAgainst 0
Derbyniwyd y cynnig.
Motion carried.
Sut y pleidleisiodd yr AelodauHow Members voted
O blaidFor (32)
- Lorraine Barrett
- Mick Bates
- Peter Black
- Nick Bourne
- Eleanor Burnham
- Alun Cairns
- David Davies
- Glyn Davies
- Andrew Davies
- Ron Davies
- Richard Edwards
- Sue Essex
- Delyth Evans
- Michael German
- William Graham
- Janice Gregory
- John Griffiths
- Christine Gwyther
- Alison Halford
- Edwina Hart
- Jane Hutt
- Carwyn Jones
- Peter Law
- Val Lloyd
- David Melding
- Tom Middlehurst
- Alun Pugh
- Jenny Randerson
- Rod Richards
- Peter Rogers
- Karen Sinclair
- Gwenda Thomas
YmatalAbstain (11)
- Cynog Dafis
- Geraint Davies
- Jocelyn Davies
- Brian Hancock
- Ieuan Wyn Jones
- David Lloyd
- Janet Ryder
- Owen John Thomas
- Rhodri Glyn Thomas
- Dafydd Wigley
- Phil Williams
Dafydd Elis-Thomas Y Llywydd siaradwyd yn Gymraeg t. 58
Dafydd Elis-Thomas The Presiding Officer spoken in Welsh p. 58
Pleidleisiwn yn awr ar gymeradwyo’r Gorchymyn.
We will now vote on approving the Order.
Cynnig NDM820 Carwyn Jones t. 58
Motion NDM820 Carwyn Jones p. 58
DerbyniwydAdopted O blaidFor 33 YmatalAbstain 10 Yn erbynAgainst 0
Derbyniwyd y cynnig.
Motion carried.
Sut y pleidleisiodd yr AelodauHow Members voted
O blaidFor (33)
- Lorraine Barrett
- Mick Bates
- Peter Black
- Nick Bourne
- Eleanor Burnham
- Alun Cairns
- David Davies
- Glyn Davies
- Andrew Davies
- Ron Davies
- Richard Edwards
- Sue Essex
- Delyth Evans
- Michael German
- William Graham
- Janice Gregory
- John Griffiths
- Christine Gwyther
- Alison Halford
- Edwina Hart
- Jane Hutt
- Carwyn Jones
- Peter Law
- Huw Lewis
- Val Lloyd
- David Melding
- Tom Middlehurst
- Alun Pugh
- Jenny Randerson
- Rod Richards
- Peter Rogers
- Karen Sinclair
- Gwenda Thomas
YmatalAbstain (10)
- Geraint Davies
- Jocelyn Davies
- Brian Hancock
- Ieuan Wyn Jones
- David Lloyd
- Janet Ryder
- Owen John Thomas
- Rhodri Glyn Thomas
- Dafydd Wigley
- Phil Williams
Dafydd Elis-Thomas Y Llywydd siaradwyd yn Gymraeg t. 59
Dafydd Elis-Thomas The Presiding Officer spoken in Welsh p. 59
Pleidleisiwn yn awr ar egwyddor y Rheoliadau Hadau Planhigion Olew a Ffibr.
We will now vote on the principle of the Oil and Fibre Plant Seeds Regulations.
Cynnig NDM821 Carwyn Jones t. 59
Motion NDM821 Carwyn Jones p. 59
DerbyniwydAdopted O blaidFor 32 YmatalAbstain 10 Yn erbynAgainst 0
Derbyniwyd y cynnig.
Motion carried.
Sut y pleidleisiodd yr AelodauHow Members voted
O blaidFor (32)
- Lorraine Barrett
- Peter Black
- Nick Bourne
- Eleanor Burnham
- Alun Cairns
- David Davies
- Glyn Davies
- Andrew Davies
- Ron Davies
- Richard Edwards
- Sue Essex
- Delyth Evans
- Michael German
- William Graham
- Janice Gregory
- John Griffiths
- Christine Gwyther
- Alison Halford
- Edwina Hart
- Jane Hutt
- Carwyn Jones
- Peter Law
- Huw Lewis
- Val Lloyd
- David Melding
- Tom Middlehurst
- Alun Pugh
- Jenny Randerson
- Rod Richards
- Peter Rogers
- Karen Sinclair
- Gwenda Thomas
YmatalAbstain (10)
- Cynog Dafis
- Geraint Davies
- Brian Hancock
- Ieuan Wyn Jones
- David Lloyd
- Janet Ryder
- Owen John Thomas
- Rhodri Glyn Thomas
- Dafydd Wigley
- Phil Williams
Dafydd Elis-Thomas Y Llywydd siaradwyd yn Gymraeg t. 60
Dafydd Elis-Thomas The Presiding Officer spoken in Welsh p. 60
Pleidleisiwn yn awr ar gymeradwyo’r Gorchymyn.
We will now vote on approving the Order.
Cynnig NDM822 Carwyn Jones t. 60
Motion NDM822 Carwyn Jones p. 60
DerbyniwydAdopted O blaidFor 33 YmatalAbstain 11 Yn erbynAgainst 0
Derbyniwyd y cynnig.
Motion carried.
Sut y pleidleisiodd yr AelodauHow Members voted
O blaidFor (33)
- Lorraine Barrett
- Mick Bates
- Peter Black
- Nick Bourne
- Eleanor Burnham
- Alun Cairns
- David Davies
- Glyn Davies
- Andrew Davies
- Ron Davies
- Richard Edwards
- Sue Essex
- Delyth Evans
- Michael German
- William Graham
- Janice Gregory
- John Griffiths
- Christine Gwyther
- Alison Halford
- Edwina Hart
- Jane Hutt
- Carwyn Jones
- Peter Law
- Huw Lewis
- Val Lloyd
- David Melding
- Tom Middlehurst
- Alun Pugh
- Jenny Randerson
- Rod Richards
- Peter Rogers
- Karen Sinclair
- Gwenda Thomas
YmatalAbstain (11)
- Cynog Dafis
- Geraint Davies
- Jocelyn Davies
- Brian Hancock
- Ieuan Wyn Jones
- David Lloyd
- Janet Ryder
- Owen John Thomas
- Rhodri Glyn Thomas
- Dafydd Wigley
- Phil Williams
Dafydd Elis-Thomas Y Llywydd siaradwyd yn Gymraeg t. 61
Dafydd Elis-Thomas The Presiding Officer spoken in Welsh p. 61
Pleidleisiwn yn awr ar egwyddor y Rheoliadau Tatws Hadyd.
We will now vote on the principle of the Seed Potatoes Regulations.
Cynnig NDM823 Carwyn Jones t. 61
Motion NDM823 Carwyn Jones p. 61
DerbyniwydAdopted O blaidFor 32 YmatalAbstain 10 Yn erbynAgainst 0
Derbyniwyd y cynnig.
Motion carried.
Sut y pleidleisiodd yr AelodauHow Members voted
O blaidFor (32)
- Lorraine Barrett
- Mick Bates
- Peter Black
- Nick Bourne
- Eleanor Burnham
- Alun Cairns
- David Davies
- Glyn Davies
- Ron Davies
- Richard Edwards
- Sue Essex
- Delyth Evans
- Michael German
- William Graham
- Janice Gregory
- John Griffiths
- Christine Gwyther
- Alison Halford
- Edwina Hart
- Jane Hutt
- Carwyn Jones
- Peter Law
- Huw Lewis
- Val Lloyd
- David Melding
- Tom Middlehurst
- Alun Pugh
- Jenny Randerson
- Rod Richards
- Peter Rogers
- Karen Sinclair
- Gwenda Thomas
YmatalAbstain (10)
- Cynog Dafis
- Jocelyn Davies
- Brian Hancock
- Ieuan Wyn Jones
- David Lloyd
- Janet Ryder
- Owen John Thomas
- Rhodri Glyn Thomas
- Dafydd Wigley
- Phil Williams
Dafydd Elis-Thomas Y Llywydd siaradwyd yn Gymraeg t. 62
Dafydd Elis-Thomas The Presiding Officer spoken in Welsh p. 62
Pleidleisiwn yn awr ar gymeradwyo’r Gorchymyn.
We will now vote on approving the Order.
Cynnig NDM824 Carwyn Jones t. 62
Motion NDM824 Carwyn Jones p. 62
DerbyniwydAdopted O blaidFor 31 YmatalAbstain 10 Yn erbynAgainst 0
Derbyniwyd y cynnig.
Motion carried.
Sut y pleidleisiodd yr AelodauHow Members voted
O blaidFor (31)
- Lorraine Barrett
- Mick Bates
- Peter Black
- Nick Bourne
- Eleanor Burnham
- Alun Cairns
- David Davies
- Glyn Davies
- Andrew Davies
- Ron Davies
- Richard Edwards
- Sue Essex
- Michael German
- William Graham
- Janice Gregory
- John Griffiths
- Christine Gwyther
- Alison Halford
- Edwina Hart
- Jane Hutt
- Carwyn Jones
- Peter Law
- Huw Lewis
- Val Lloyd
- David Melding
- Tom Middlehurst
- Alun Pugh
- Jenny Randerson
- Rod Richards
- Karen Sinclair
- Gwenda Thomas
YmatalAbstain (10)
- Geraint Davies
- Jocelyn Davies
- Brian Hancock
- Ieuan Wyn Jones
- David Lloyd
- Janet Ryder
- Owen John Thomas
- Rhodri Glyn Thomas
- Dafydd Wigley
- Phil Williams
Dafydd Elis-Thomas Y Llywydd siaradwyd yn Gymraeg t. 63
Dafydd Elis-Thomas The Presiding Officer spoken in Welsh p. 63
Pleidleisiwn yn awr ar egwyddor y Rheoliadau Hadau Llysiau.
We will now vote on the principle of the Vegetable Seeds Regulations.
Cynnig NDM825 Carwyn Jones t. 63
Motion NDM825 Carwyn Jones p. 63
DerbyniwydAdopted O blaidFor 33 YmatalAbstain 11 Yn erbynAgainst 0
Derbyniwyd y cynnig.
Motion carried.
Sut y pleidleisiodd yr AelodauHow Members voted
O blaidFor (33)
- Mick Bates
- Peter Black
- Nick Bourne
- Eleanor Burnham
- Alun Cairns
- David Davies
- Glyn Davies
- Andrew Davies
- Ron Davies
- Richard Edwards
- Sue Essex
- Delyth Evans
- Michael German
- William Graham
- Janice Gregory
- John Griffiths
- Christine Gwyther
- Alison Halford
- Edwina Hart
- Jane Hutt
- Carwyn Jones
- Peter Law
- Huw Lewis
- Val Lloyd
- David Melding
- Tom Middlehurst
- Jonathan Morgan
- Alun Pugh
- Jenny Randerson
- Rod Richards
- Peter Rogers
- Karen Sinclair
- Gwenda Thomas
YmatalAbstain (11)
- Cynog Dafis
- Geraint Davies
- Jocelyn Davies
- Brian Hancock
- Ieuan Wyn Jones
- David Lloyd
- Janet Ryder
- Owen John Thomas
- Rhodri Glyn Thomas
- Dafydd Wigley
- Phil Williams
Dafydd Elis-Thomas Y Llywydd siaradwyd yn Gymraeg t. 64
Dafydd Elis-Thomas The Presiding Officer spoken in Welsh p. 64
Pleidleisiwn yn awr ar gymeradwyo’r Gorchymyn.
We will now vote on approving the Order.
Cynnig NDM826 Carwyn Jones t. 64
Motion NDM826 Carwyn Jones p. 64
DerbyniwydAdopted O blaidFor 33 YmatalAbstain 11 Yn erbynAgainst 0
Derbyniwyd y cynnig.
Motion carried.
Sut y pleidleisiodd yr AelodauHow Members voted
O blaidFor (33)
- Lorraine Barrett
- Mick Bates
- Peter Black
- Nick Bourne
- Alun Cairns
- David Davies
- Glyn Davies
- Andrew Davies
- Ron Davies
- Richard Edwards
- Sue Essex
- Delyth Evans
- Michael German
- William Graham
- Janice Gregory
- John Griffiths
- Christine Gwyther
- Alison Halford
- Edwina Hart
- Jane Hutt
- Carwyn Jones
- Peter Law
- Huw Lewis
- Val Lloyd
- David Melding
- Tom Middlehurst
- Jonathan Morgan
- Alun Pugh
- Jenny Randerson
- Rod Richards
- Peter Rogers
- Karen Sinclair
- Gwenda Thomas
YmatalAbstain (11)
- Cynog Dafis
- Geraint Davies
- Jocelyn Davies
- Brian Hancock
- Ieuan Wyn Jones
- David Lloyd
- Janet Ryder
- Owen John Thomas
- Rhodri Glyn Thomas
- Dafydd Wigley
- Phil Williams
Daeth y Dirprwy Lywydd i’r Gadair am 10.58 a.m.
The Deputy Presiding Officer took the Chair at 10.58 a.m.
Cymeradwyo Dau Adroddiad Grant Arbennig am Gymorth Ariannol i Fusnesau yr effeithiwyd arnynt gan Glwy’r Traed a’r Genau
Approval of Two Special Grant Reports for Financial Assistance to Businesses Affected by Foot and Mouth Disease
Edwina Hart The Minister for Finance, Local Government and Communities spoken in English p. 65
Edwina Hart Y Gweinidog dros Gyllid, Llywodraeth Leol a Chymunedau siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 65
I propose that
Cynigiaf fod
Edwina Hart The Minister for Finance, Local Government and Communities (continued) spoken in English p. 65
Edwina Hart Y Gweinidog dros Gyllid, Llywodraeth Leol a Chymunedau (parhad) siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 65
On 8 October, I reaffirmed my intention to redistribute any underspend of special grant report to the worst-hit areas. Returns from local authorities indicated that £1.1 million will not be spent. In light of evidence gathered on the impact of foot and mouth disease, I have decided to redistribute the unspent money to the nine rural development areas as outlined in the grant report. I ask Members to support this motion.
Ar 8 Hydref, rhoddais gadarnhad o’m bwriad i ailddosbarthu unrhyw danwariant o’r adroddiad grant arbennig i’r ardaloedd a ddioddefodd fwyaf. Nododd dychweliadau o awdurdodau lleol y bydd £1.1 miliwn heb ei wario. Yng ngoleuni tystiolaeth a gasglwyd ar effaith clwy’r traed a’r genau, yr wyf wedi penderfynu ailddosbarthu’r arian nas gwariwyd i’r naw ardal datblygu gwledig fel yr amlinellir yn yr adroddiad grant. Gofynnaf i’r Aelodau gefnogi’r cynnig hwn.
We will support the measures. It is right that the underspend in areas largely unaffected by foot and mouth disease is redistributed to those areas that suffered the most. We have no concern about that. However, help for businesses affected by foot and mouth disease is needed urgently, over and above this money. This is a serious issue and will continue to be so throughout the winter. Although there is promise of additional assistance in the next financial year, many tourist-related businesses, such as shops, restaurants and pony-trekking businesses, are going to the wall throughout a large part of rural Wales. While parts of Wales are recovering from foot and mouth disease, it is not true of inland areas. As the Minister knows, Powys, and particularly the south of the county, is still seriously affected; employees are being laid off and businesses such as plumbers and decorators are suffering the knock-on effects. I appeal to the Minister to look again to see whether assistance can be found for the remainder of this financial year in the shape of additional rate relief and direct grants for the hardest hit businesses. Otherwise I fear that there will be a massive crisis in parts of rural Wales this winter. I hope that the Minister will address that in her response to this debate.
Cefnogwn y mesurau. Mae’n briodol bod y tanwariant mewn ardaloedd nad effeithiwyd arnynt i raddau helaeth gan glwy’r traed a’r genau yn cael ei ailddosbarthu i’r ardaloedd hynny a ddioddefodd fwyaf. Nid oes gennym unrhyw bryder ynglŷn â hynny. Fodd bynnag, mae angen help ar y busnesau yr effeithiwyd arnynt gan glwy’r traed a’r genau ar unwaith, yn ychwanegol at yr arian hwn. Mae hwn yn fater pwysig a bydd yn parhau felly drwy’r gaeaf. Er bod addewid o gymorth ychwanegol yn y flwyddyn ariannol nesaf, mae llawer o fusnesau sy’n gysylltiedig â thwristiaeth, megis siopau, tai bwyta a busnesau merlota yn mynd i’r wal mewn rhan helaeth o gefn gwlad Cymru. Er bod rhannau o Gymru yn dod dros effeithiau clwy’r traed a’r genau, nid yw’n wir am ardaloedd mewndirol. Fel y gŵyr y Gweinidog, mae Powys, ac yn arbennig rhan ddeheuol y sir, yn dioddef yn ddifrifol o hyd; caiff cyflogeion eu diswyddo dros dro ac mae busnesau megis plymeriaid a phaentwyr a phapurwyr yn dioddef y sgil effeithiau. Erfyniaf ar y Gweinidog i edrych eto i weld a ellir dod o hyd i gymorth am weddill y flwyddyn ariannol hon ar ffurf rhyddhad trethi ychwanegol a grantiau uniongyrchol ar gyfer y busnesau a ddioddefodd waethaf. Fel arall ofnaf y bydd argyfwng mawr mewn rhannau o gefn gwlad Cymru y gaeaf hwn. Gobeithiaf y bydd y Gweinidog yn mynd i’r afael â hynny yn ei hymateb i’r ddadl hon.
Croesawaf y mesurau a’r arian ychwangeol. Wrth wneud hynny, pwysleisiaf fy mod yn eu croesawu mewn egwyddor a chyn belled yr ânt. Mae’n bosibl nad ydynt yn mynd yn ddigon pell ac y bydd rhai agweddau ar y rheolau sy’n gysylltiedig â’r mesurau yn achosi problemau i rai busnesau.
I welcome the measures and the additional money. In doing so, I emphasise that I welcome them in principle and as far as they go. It is possible that they do not go far enough and that some aspects of the rules related to the measures will cause problems for some businesses.
Mae’n eironig ein bod yn trafod y mesurau hyn heddiw, ar y diwrnod y clywsom fod pobl ym Mhowys yn cymryd camau cyfreithiol yn erbyn Llywodraeth Prydain oherwydd yr arian aruthrol a gollwyd yn sgîl clwy’r traed a’r genau. Amcangyfrifwyd fod y golled ym Mhowys yn unig yn £50 miliwn, sydd yn swm aruthrol. Yng nghyd-destun hynny, mae’r £9 miliwn ychwanegol a ddaw o fesurau heddiw yn swm cymharol gyfyngedig. Mae angen llawer mwy o arian i ailadeiladu economïau’r ardaloedd a ddioddefodd. Mae’r busnesau hyn yn iawn i ddwyn achos yn erbyn Llywodraeth Prydain oherwydd penderfyniadau Llundain a achosodd lawer o’r problemau ac i’r gost fod yn fwy nag y byddai wedi bod fel arall efallai.
It is ironic that we are discussing these measures today, on the day we heard that some people in Powys are to take legal action against the British Government because of the vast amount of money lost as a result of foot and mouth disease. It is estimated that £50 million has been lost in Powys alone, which is a massive amount. In that context, the additional £9 million available as a result of today’s measures is a relatively limited contribution. We need much more money to rebuild the economies of areas that have suffered. These businesses are right to take legal action against the British Government because it was decisions made in London that caused a lot of the problems and also caused costs to be higher than they might otherwise have been.
Wedi dweud hynny, mae’n briodol bod y Cynulliad yn ystyried beth y gellir ei wneud i helpu busnesau, yn enwedig rhai bach a drawyd yn galed. Mae rhai busnesau wedi mynd i’r wal. Bydd yn rhaid inni ofyn sut y gallwn ni ail-greu strwythur yr economi yn yr ardaloedd a effeithiwyd, o safbwynt twristiaeth a gwasanaethau sy’n hanfodol ar gyfer amaethyddiaeth.
Having said that, it is appropriate for the Assembly to consider what it can do to help businesses, particularly small businesses that have been hit hard. Some businesses have gone to the wall. We must ask how we can recreate the structure of the economy in affected areas, in terms of tourism and services that are essential to agriculture.
Croesawaf y £12 miliwn a gyhoeddwyd yn gynharach eleni. Serch hynny, mae cwestiynau ynglŷn â’r modd y mae’r arian hwn wedi ei ddefnyddio, neu heb ei ddefnyddio, gan rai o gynghorau Cymru. Mae’r modd yr ymdriniwyd â’r arian wedi amrywio’n sylweddol o ardal i ardal, sef un o’r rhesymau pam na ddefnyddiwyd £1.1 miliwn. Dyna paham y mae un o’r mesurau yn cyfeirio at ailddosbarthu’r arian hwn. Felly, mae rhai awdurdodau lleol ar fai am fethu â rhoi cymorth i’r busnesau bach a oedd ei angen.
I welcome the £12 million announced earlier this year. Nevertheless, there are questions about the way in which the money has, or has not, been used by some Welsh councils. The way in which the money has been used varies considerably from area to area, which is one reason behind a £1.1 million underspend. That is why one of the measures refers to the redistribution of that money. Therefore, some local authorities are at fault for failing to offer help to the small business that needed it.
Yr wyf yn falch bod Cyngor Gwynedd wedi gweithredu’n effeithiol yn y mater hwn, a derbyniais nifer o lythyrau gan bobl yn y sector twristiaeth yn diolch i’r cyngor a Llywodraeth y Cynulliad am y cymorth. Gan y bu’n bosibl i Gyngor Gwynedd wneud hyn, pam na wnaeth pob cyngor yr un peth? Mae’r modd effeithiol y defnyddiodd Cyngor Gwynedd yr arian yn peri imi roi mwy o sylw i’r pryderon a fynegwyd gan swyddogion y cyngor ynglŷn â’r cynllun newydd hwn, yn enwedig ynglŷn â’r amserlen ar gyfer defnyddio’r arian, sydd yn nodi bod yn rhaid ymrwymo’r arian erbyn 31 Rhagfyr.
I am pleased that Gwynedd Council has taken effective action in this matter, and I have received several letters from people in the tourism sector thanking the council and the Assembly Government for the help. If Gwynedd Council could do this, why did every other council not do likewise? Gwynedd Council’s effective use of the money prompts me to pay greater attention to concerns expressed by council officials about the new scheme, particularly in terms of the timetable for using the money, which states that the money must be committed by 31 December.
Gwn fod y Llywodraeth wedi gwneud datganiad ar y mater hwn ym mis Gorffennaf. Ond, yn ôl a ddeallaf, dim ond ym mis Medi y derbyniodd y cyngor y manylion gweithredu. Y realiti felly oedd mai dim ond ym mis Hydref y cyhoeddwyd y cynllun. Rhaid i’r ceisiadau ddod i law yn ystod y mis hwn er mwyn eu cymeradwyo ac ymrwymo’r arian erbyn diwedd mis Rhagfyr. Rhaid cofio bod Rhagfyr, oherwydd cyfnod y Nadolig, yn un o’r misoedd prysuraf i bobl yn y sector twristiaeth. Erfyniaf ar y Gweinidog felly—a gofynnais gwestiwn mewn Cyfarfod Llawn ar hyn eisoes—i ailystyried y dyddiad cau er mwyn gweld a oes modd ymestyn y cyfnod ymrwymo’r arian tan 28 Chwefror. Byddai hynny’n help mawr i fusnesau. Dylem gofio hefyd fod llif arian nifer o fusnesau ar ei isaf yn ystod Ionawr a Chwefror. Mae’n bosibl felly mai yn ystod y cyfnod hwnnw y bydd angen help arnynt.
I know that the Government made a statement on this matter in July. However, as I understand it, the council only received the operational details in September. The reality therefore was that the scheme was not announced until October. Applications must be submitted this month if approval is to be granted and the money committed by the end of December. We should remember that December, due to the Christmas period, is one of the busiest months for people in the tourism sector. I urge the Minister therefore—and I have already asked a question on this in Plenary—to reconsider the closing date to see whether it would be possible to extend the deadline for commitment until 28 February. That would be a great help to businesses. We should also bear in mind that cash flow within businesses is at its slowest during January and February. It is possible therefore that they will need help during that time.
Mynegwyd dymuniad yng Ngwynedd ac ardaloedd eraill am gronfa benthyciadau di-log i helpu busnesau. Gwn fod Cyngor Gwynedd wedi cysylltu â HSBC er mwyn ystyried hynny. Ond gan y bydd pob cyngor yng Nghymru y mae’r arian hwn ar gael iddynt yn dymuno gofyn yr un cwestiwn, byddai wedi bod o gymorth pe bai’r arweiniad ar sut i sefydlu cronfa o’r fath wedi dod o’r canol.
The desire for an interest-free loans fund to help businesses has been expressed in Gwynedd and other areas. I know that Gwynedd Council has been in contact with HSBC about this. However, since every council in Wales that is in receipt of this money will want to ask the same question, it would have been useful to have had guidance centrally on how to establish such a fund.
Ceir problemau hefyd o ran busnesau sydd yn bennaf yn rhai amaethyddol ond sydd â rhai cyfrifoldebau eraill. Mae perygl na fydd hawl gan y busnesau hyn i dderbyn arian. Efallai ei bod yn rhy hwyr i newid y diffiniad, na fu i’r Cynulliad, efallai, ei osod. Serch hynny, wrth fabwysiadu agwedd gaeth mae perygl na fydd rhai busnesau yn derbyn arian.
There are problems also in terms of businesses that are mainly agricultural but which have some other responsibilities. There is a danger that these businesses will not be entitled to receive funding. Perhaps it is too late to change the definition, which may not have been set by the Assembly. However, in adopting a strict approach there is a danger that some businesses may not receive funding.
Mae angen hwyluso marchnata, a gobeithiaf y bydd modd cyfleu neges glir bod modd defnyddio’r arian hwn i’r perwyl hwnnw er mwyn ail-greu marchnadoedd y busnesau a ddioddefodd. Byddai gallu defnyddio’r arian yn gynnar yn y flwyddyn newydd yn gymorth mawr wrth farchnata, gan mai dyma’r adeg o’r flwyddyn y bydd sawl busnes yn dymuno gwneud hynny.
We need to facilitate marketing, and I hope that we can send a clear message that this money can be used for that purpose in order to recreate markets for the businesses that have suffered. Being able to use the money early in the new year would be a great help in terms of marketing because that is the time of year when many businesses will wish to do this.
Felly, wrth groesawu’r arian ychwanegol ac erfyn ar bob cyngor i’w ddefnyddio yn llawn ac yn effeithiol i helpu busnesau bach, gofynnaf i’r Gweinidog ystyried y pwyntiau hyn er mwyn galluogi’r cynghorau i wneud hynny.
Therefore, in welcoming the additional money and urging every council to make full and effective use of it to help small businesses, I ask the Minister to consider these points in order to enable councils to do that.
John Marek The Deputy Presiding Officer spoken in English p. 68
John Marek Y Dirprwy Lywydd siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 68
Order. I have only just realised that the Minister for Finance, Government and Communities only proposed the first motion; these matters are in the Government’s hands. The Minister for Rural Affairs wishes to propose the second motion. I hope that I have the Assembly’s agreement on that. Since the second motion has not yet been proposed, Nick Bourne and Dafydd Wigley may contribute again if they wish.
Trefn. Yr wyf newydd sylweddoli mai dim ond cynnig y cynnig cyntaf a wnaeth y Gweinidog dros Gyllid, Llywodraeth Leol a Chymunedau; mae’r materion hyn yn nwylo’r Llywodraeth. Mae’r Gweinidog dros Faterion Gwledig yn dymuno cynnig yr ail gynnig. Gobeithiaf fod gennyf gytundeb y Cynulliad ynglŷn â hynny. Gan na chynigiwyd yr ail gynnig eto, gall Nick Bourne a Dafydd Wigley gyfrannu eto os dymunant wneud hynny.
Carwyn Jones The Minister for Rural Affairs spoken in English p. 68
Carwyn Jones Y Gweinidog dros Faterion Gwledig siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 68
I propose that
Cynigiaf fod
Carwyn Jones The Minister for Rural Affairs (continued) spoken in English p. 69
Carwyn Jones Y Gweinidog dros Faterion Gwledig (parhad) siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 69
In many ways, the debate on this matter has already taken place. This grant deals with the money announced on 26 July by the First Minister and myself: the £65 million rural recovery plan. It contains a funding package to help support businesses, particularly those in rural areas, to recover from the effects of foot and mouth disease. This special grant report deals with the money allocated to local authorities to help businesses in their areas—it is outside the original special grant, which dealt with rate relief—and also deals with the moneys that have been distributed to the various lead agencies to deal with recovery from the effects of foot and mouth disease.
Ar lawer cyfrif, cynhaliwyd y ddadl ar y mater hwn eisoes. Mae’r grant hwn yn ymwneud â’r arian a gyhoeddwyd ar 26 Gorffennaf gan y Prif Weinidog a minnau: y cynllun adfer gwledig gwerth £65 miliwn. Mae’n cynnwys pecyn ariannu i helpu cynorthwyo busnesau, yn enwedig y rheini mewn ardaloedd gwledig, i ddod dros effeithiau clwy’r traed a’r genau. Mae’r adroddiad grant arbennig hwn yn delio â’r arian a ddyrannwyd i awdurdodau lleol i helpu busnesau yn eu hardal—mae y tu allan i’r grant arbennig gwreiddiol, sy’n delio â rhyddhad trethi—ac mae’n delio hefyd ag arian a ddosbarthwyd i’r prif asiantaethau amrywiol i ddelio â’r broses o ddod dros effeithiau clwy’r traed a’r genau.
We are relieved that the foot and mouth disease crisis now appears to be easing. It has caused substantial damage to the rural economy. I share previous speakers’ hope that Powys Rural Business Campaign’s case will be successful and that further compensation will be made available.
Yr ydym yn falch bod argyfwng clwy’r traed a’r genau yn ymddangos fel pe bai’n cilio erbyn hyn. Achosodd niwed difrifol i’r economi wledig. Rhannaf obaith y siaradwyr blaenorol y bydd achos Ymgyrch Busnesau Gwledig Powys yn llwyddiannus ac y bydd iawndal pellach ar gael.
We welcome any financial assistance to businesses that have suffered as a result of foot and mouth disease. Therefore, we welcome these two special grant reports, which are part of a package of continuing assistance being provided by the Assembly. I will pay particular attention to Powys. In the first special grant report, Powys received 7 per cent of the £1.1 million provided and, of the money provided in the second, approximately 23 per cent. Yet Powys has suffered 75 per cent of the impact of foot and mouth disease in Wales. The money cannot be being distributed properly. I have met many people involved with rural businesses, particularly in tourism, who have expressed their despair at having two winters but no summer to enable them to survive. Questions should be asked about how the money has been distributed.
Croesawn unrhyw gymorth ariannol i fusnesau a ddioddefodd o ganlyniad i glwy’r traed a’r genau. Felly, croesawn y ddau adroddiad grant arbennig hyn, sy’n rhan o becyn o gymorth parhaus sy’n cael ei ddarparu gan y Cynulliad. Byddaf yn talu sylw arbennig i Bowys. Yn yr adroddiad grant arbennig cyntaf, derbyniodd Powys 7 y cant o’r £1.1 miliwn a ddarparwyd ac, o’r arian a ddarparwyd yn yr ail, tua 23 y cant. Er hynny mae Powys wedi dioddef 75 y cant o effaith clwy’r traed a’r genau yng Nghymru. Ni ellir bod yr arian yn cael ei ddosbarthu’n iawn. Yr wyf wedi cwrdd â llawer o bobl sy’n gysylltiedig â busnesau gwledig, yn enwedig o fewn twristiaeth, a fynegodd eu pryder ynglŷn â’r ffaith iddynt gael dau aeaf ond dim un haf i alluogi iddynt oroesi. Dylid gofyn cwestiynau ynglŷn â sut y dosbarthwyd yr arian.
We are pleased that the Assembly has been able to re-allocate the £1.1 million that local authorities were not able to use from the special grant report announced on 27 March. However, we ask whether there are lessons to be learnt from why all the money was not spent in the time available. Did the fault lie with the Assembly’s procedures and conditions? Was the money not targeted to areas of need properly? Or were these failures down to local authorities’ inability to act quickly enough?
Yr ydym yn falch bod y Cynulliad wedi llwyddo i ailddyrannu’r £1.1 miliwn na allodd awdurdodau lleol ei ddefnyddio o’r adroddiad grant arbennig a gyhoeddwyd ar 27 Mawrth. Fodd bynnag, gofynnwn a oes gwersi i’w dysgu o’r ffaith na wariwyd yr holl arian yn yr amser a oedd ar gael. Ai gweithdrefnau ac amodau’r Cynulliad a oedd ar fai? Ai oherwydd na thargedwyd yr arian i feysydd o angen yn gywir? Neu ai anallu’r awdurdodau lleol i weithredu’n ddigon cyflym oedd yn gyfrifol am y methiannau hyn?
Finally, Minister, can you clarify whether it is possible for businesses to receive the maximum rate relief and maximum business support available? I am told that in some places, businesses have received both—which, I believe, is up to a maximum of £60,000—but in others, they have not.
Yn olaf, Weinidog, a allwch egluro a yw’n bosibl i fusnesau dderbyn uchafswm rhyddhad trethi ac uchafswm cymorth busnes sydd ar gael? Yr wyf ar ddeall bod busnesau wedi derbyn y ddau mewn rhai mannau—sydd, fe gredaf, hyd at uchafswm o £60,000—ond nid mewn mannau eraill.
As Dafydd Wigley has already stated, Plaid Cymru welcomes these special grant reports as they will give local authorities the freedom to assist the economies in their areas in the wake of the foot and mouth disease outbreak. I have stated before in this Chamber that the sums of money available are inadequate to deal with the situation. When the Minister for Finance, Local Government and Communities first announced assistance to businesses affected by foot and mouth disease, I pointed out at the time that the mechanism for distributing the pool of money among authorities was wrong. The formula used was based on the number of businesses in an area and their rateable value. That did not reflect the need apparent in an area. The mismatch between the distribution formula and need became obvious when some authorities did not use their whole allocation, while other counties could have used much more than they received.
Fel y nododd Dafydd Wigley eisoes, mae Plaid Cymru yn croesawu’r adroddiadau grant arbennig hyn oherwydd y byddant yn rhoi’r rhyddid i awdurdodau lleol gynorthwyo’r economïau yn eu hardaloedd wedi argyfwng clwy’r traed a’r genau. Yr wyf wedi datgan o’r blaen yn y Siambr hon fod y symiau o arian sydd ar gael yn annigonol i ddelio â’r sefyllfa. Pan gyhoeddodd y Gweinidog dros Gyllid, Llywodraeth Leol a Chymunedau y cymorth i fusnesau yr effeithiwyd arnynt gan glwy’r traed a’r genau yn gyntaf, amlygais ar y pryd fod y dull o ddosbarthu’r gronfa o arian ymhlith yr awdurdodau yn anghywir. Yr oedd y fformiwla a ddefnyddiwyd yn seiliedig ar nifer y busnesau yn yr ardal a’u gwerth trethiannol. Nid oedd hynny’n adlewyrchu’r angen a oedd yn amlwg mewn ardal. Daeth y camgyfatebiaeth rhwng y fformiwla dosbarthu a’r angen yn amlwg pan na ddefnyddiodd rhai awdurdodau eu dyraniad llawn, tra y gallai siroedd eraill fod wedi defnyddio llawer mwy nag a gawsant.
There were also problems regarding the guidance originally given to authorities on how to distribute the money. Some counties were able to develop good, strong structures quickly—as Dafydd said—to distribute the money, ensuring that that money was targeted at areas with greater needs, while others introduced bureaucracy that deterred businesses from applying for help. Therefore, some authorities did not use their whole allocation from the original £12 million. Special grant report no. 17 redistributes the unused £1.1 million of the original £12 million to the nine rural authorities that would have originally benefited from the money, had a different distribution formula been used. Why has it taken so long to distribute that money, when the original £12 million was announced on 27 March to cover only three months initially?
Yn ogystal, cafwyd problemau o ran yr arweiniad a roddwyd i awdurdodau yn wreiddiol ynglŷn â sut i ddosbarthu’r arian. Llwyddodd rhai siroedd i ddatblygu dulliau da, cryf yn gyflym—fel y dywedodd Dafydd—er mwyn dosbarthu’r arian, gan sicrhau bod yr arian yn cael ei dargedu at ardaloedd â mwy o anghenion, tra y cyflwynodd eraill fiwrocratiaeth a oedd yn rhwystro busnesau rhag gwneud cais am help. Felly, ni ddefnyddiodd rhai awdurdodau eu dyraniad llawn o’r £12 miliwn gwreiddiol. Mae adroddiad grant arbennig rhif 17 yn ailddosbarthu’r £1.1 miliwn nas defnyddiwyd o’r £12 miliwn gwreiddiol i’r naw awdurdod gwledig a fyddai wedi manteisio ar yr arian yn wreiddiol, pe defnyddiwyd fformiwla ddosbarthu wahanol. Pam y cymerodd cyhyd i ddosbarthu’r arian hwnnw, pan gyhoeddwyd y £12 miliwn gwreiddiol ar 27 Mawrth i gwmpasu tri mis yn unig ar y cychwyn?
I am pleased to see the money finally being reallocated, but would have preferred a better formula from the start, ensuring that the money was targeted to areas with the most need. The Government was alerted to the fact that the problem was so severe in rural areas that further measures would be needed by the end of June. Therefore, special grant report no. 18 is a partial response to that. It allocates £9 million, announced in the rural recovery package in July. Despite the measures announced in July, authorities were told to start distributing funds using their own resources, on the understanding that funds would be distributed to them later in the year. Four months later, we are approving the allocation of that £9 million. As the authorities have already started to allocate that money, can the Minister tell me how much has already been spent? In fact, is there anything left that has not been allocated? If any money is left over, what kind of mechanism will be used to reallocate it?
Yr wyf yn falch i weld yr arian, o’r diwedd, yn cael ei ailddyrannu, ond byddwn wedi ffafrio gwell fformiwla o’r cychwyn a fyddai’n sicrhau bod yr arian yn cael ei dargedu i’r ardaloedd â’r angen mwyaf. Rhybuddiwyd y Llywodraeth o’r ffaith bod y broblem mor ddifrifol mewn ardaloedd gwledig fel y byddai angen mesurau pellach erbyn diwedd Mehefin. O ganlyniad, mae adroddiad grant arbennig rhif 18 yn ymateb rhannol i hynny. Mae’n dyrannu £9 miliwn, a gyhoeddwyd yn y pecyn adfer gwledig ym mis Gorffennaf. Er gwaethaf y mesurau a gyhoeddwyd yng Ngorffennaf, dywedwyd wrth yr awdurdodau i ddechrau dosbarthu cyllid gan ddefnyddio eu hadnoddau eu hunain, ar yr amod y byddai arian yn cael ei ddosbarthu iddynt yn ddiweddarach yn y flwyddyn. Bedwar mis yn ddiweddarach, yr ydym yn cymeradwyo dyraniad y £9 miliwn hwnnw. Gan fod yr awdurdodau eisoes wedi dechrau dyrannu’r arian hwnnw, a all y Gweinidog ddweud wrthyf faint o arian a wariwyd eisoes? Yn wir, a oes unrhyw beth ar ôl heb ei ddyrannu? Os oes unrhyw arian dros ben, pa ddull a ddefnyddir i’w ailddyrannu?
Transparency is also needed as both sums were included in the £65 million rural recovery package announced in July. Can either the Minister for Finance, Local Government and Communities or the Minister for Rural Affairs tell me how they intend to track the money that has been used, and, through tracking, how can they learn from experience to refine future distribution mechanisms? Lessons have been learned from the initial allocation of money—Plaid Cymru said that they were obvious from the start. A formula is now being used that will ensure that 90 per cent of the new allocation of £9 million will go to the nine predominantly rural authorities affected worst by the foot and mouth disease outbreak.
Mae angen tryloywder hefyd oherwydd cynhwyswyd y ddau swm yn y pecyn adfer gwledig gwerth £65 miliwn a gyhoeddwyd ym mis Gorffennaf. A all naill ai’r Gweinidog dros Gyllid, Llywodraeth Leol a Chymunedau neu’r Gweinidog dros Faterion Gwledig ddweud wrthyf sut y maent yn bwriadu olrhain yr arian a ddefnyddiwyd, a, thrwy olrhain, sut y gallant ddysgu o brofiad i wella dulliau dosbarthu yn y dyfodol? Dysgwyd gwersi o’r gwaith dyrannu arian cychwynnol—dywedodd Plaid Cymru eu bod yn amlwg o’r cychwyn. Mae fformiwla yn cael ei defnyddio yn awr a fydd yn sicrhau bod 90 y cant o’r dyraniad newydd gwerth £9 miliwn yn mynd i’r naw awdurdod sy’n wledig yn bennaf yr effeithiwyd arnynt waethaf gan glwy’r traed a’r genau.
However, the total available sum of £21 million will not be enough to meet the needs of areas such as Powys. Powys businesspeople stated at the time that the county required £23 million, but the figure is now closer to £50 million. It is also claimed that Anglesey will need tens of millions of pounds.
Fodd bynnag, ni fydd y cyfanswm sydd ar gael, sef £21 miliwn, yn ddigon i fodloni anghenion ardaloedd megis Powys. Dywedodd pobl fusnes Powys ar y pryd bod angen £23 miliwn ar y sir, ond bellach mae’r ffigwr yn nes at £50 miliwn. Honnir hefyd y bydd angen degau o filiynau o bunnau ar Ynys Môn.
I appreciate that there will never be enough money to satisfy everyone. However, given the major problems facing many small and medium-sized businesses as a result of the foot and mouth disease outbreak, I feel that a substantially larger sum should have been found, perhaps not found from our meagre resources, but—as Plaid Cymru said at the time and has maintained throughout—from the Treasury. Government figures show that small businesses hit by the effects of foot and mouth disease across the UK owe around £103 million in deferred taxes. That amount is rising rapidly.
Gwerthfawrogaf na fydd byth digon o arian i fodloni pawb. Fodd bynnag, o ystyried y problemau mawr sy’n wynebu llawer o fusnesau bach a chanolig eu maint o ganlyniad i glwy’r traed a’r genau, teimlaf y dylid bod wedi dod o hyd i swm sylweddol fwy, efallai nid o’n hadnoddau prin, ond—fel y dywedodd Plaid Cymru ar y pryd ac fel yr ategodd ers hynny—o’r Trysorlys. Dengys ffigurau’r Llywodraeth fod gan fusnesau bach yr effeithiwyd arnynt gan glwy’r traed a’r genau ledled y DU, tua £103 miliwn o ddyled mewn trethi gohiriedig. Mae’r swm hwnnw’n codi’n gyflym.
Is it not time for the Westminster Government to take action and to consider cancelling those tax debts permanently, given that sufficient evidence of a causal link with the foot and mouth disease outbreak is shown? It is one thing to defer a debt, and another to write it off. Even though a debt is deferred, it must still be paid. What pressure has the Minister put on her Westminster colleagues to write off that debt completely?
Onid yw’n bryd i Lywodraeth San Steffan gymryd camau ac ystyried diddymu’r dyledion treth hynny yn barhaol, o ystyried y ffaith yr amlygwyd tystiolaeth ddigonol o ddolen achosol gyda chlwy’r traed a’r genau? Un peth yw gohirio dyled, peth arall yw ei dileu. Er y caiff dyled ei gohirio, rhaid ei thalu o hyd. Pa bwysau a roddodd y Gweinidog ar ei chyd-Aelodau yn San Steffan i ddileu’r ddyled honno yn llwyr?
I fanteisio ar eich caredigrwydd i adael imi siarad eto, Ddirprwy Lywydd, carwn ofyn cwestiwn i Carwyn. Nid oeddwn yn ymwybodol ei fod am gymryd rhan uniongyrchol yn y ddadl hon pan y siaredais yn gynharach. Carwyn, beth am yr amaethwyr na chawsant unrhyw daliadau iawndal am golli stoc? Carwyn, yr wyf yn gofyn cwestiwn yn uniongyrchol i chi, a byddwn yn ddiolchgar am ateb. Mae llawer o ffermwyr sydd heb dderbyn ceiniog o iawndal ond sydd, er nad ydynt wedi colli anifeiliaid, wedi dioddef yn enbyd oherwydd nad oes modd iddynt symud anifeiliaid. A oes unrhyw beirianwaith i roi cymorth iddynt? Hyd y gwelaf, nid oes dim byd yn y mesurau hyn. A oes ffordd arall o helpu’r ffermwyr hynny?
In making the most of your generosity in allowing me to speak again, Deputy Presiding Officer, I wish to ask Carwyn a question. I was not aware that he would participate in this debate when I spoke earlier. Carwyn, what about the agriculture workers who have not received any compensation payments for loss of stock? Carwyn, I am asking you a direct question, and would be grateful for a reply. Many farmers have not received a penny in compensation but, although they have not lost animals, they have suffered a great deal as a result of bans on animal movements. Is there any mechanism to assist them? As far as I can see, there is nothing in these measures. Is there another way of helping those farmers?
Carwyn Jones Y Gweinidog dros Faterion Gwledig siaradwyd yn Gymraeg t. 73
Carwyn Jones The Minister for Rural Affairs spoken in Welsh p. 73
Gan fod ffermwyr yn cael taliadau drwy IACS a system cymorthdaliadau Ewrop, mae’n anghyfreithlon gwneud unrhyw fath o daliadau at amaeth y tu allan i’r system honno. Ein problem yw ei bod yn anghyfreithlon. Er hynny, mae modd rhoi taliadau i ffermydd sydd â busnes arall ar y fferm nad yw’n ymwneud ag amaeth; maent yn gallu cael cymorth. Ond, os nad yw’r busnes ond yn ymwneud ag amaeth, y broblem yw ein bod yn dod o dan reolau’r Comisiwn Ewropeaidd a rheolau’r system cymorthdaliadau.
Given that farmers receive payments through IACS and the European subsidy system, it is unlawful to make any sort of agriculture payment outside of that system. Our problem is that it is unlawful. However, it is possible to make payments to farms that have another business that is unconnected to agriculture on their land; they can receive assistance. But, if it is a business that is only concerned with agriculture, the problem is that we come under the European Commission’s rules and the rules of the subsidy system.
Yr wyf yn ddiolchgar am yr esboniad hwnnw, er y bydd yn destun pryder i lawer o ffermydd bach sydd wedi colli yn sylweddol ac na fyddant yn cael arian yn ôl drwy’r gyfundrefn Ewropeaidd, IACS, ac ati, sy’n bodoli ar hyn o bryd. Pwysaf ar Carwyn a Gweinidogion eraill y Llywodraeth i ofyn a oes modd gwneud cais arbennig i Frwsel ynglŷn â hyn i sicrhau na fydd yr un ffermwr bach yn mynd allan o fusnes o ganlyniad i glwy’r traed a’r genau.
I am grateful for that explanation, although it will be a matter of concern for many small farmers who have suffered considerable losses and who will not be compensated through the present European system, IACS, and so on. I urge Carwyn and other Government Ministers to ask whether it would be possible to make a special application to Brussels on this issue to ensure that not one small farmer will go to the wall as a result of foot and mouth disease.
Edwina Hart The Minister for Finance, Local Government and Communities spoken in English p. 73
Edwina Hart Y Gweinidog dros Gyllid, Llywodraeth Leol a Chymunedau siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 73
I will deal with Dafydd Wigley’s final point: we have continued to press on the issues that he raised. My colleague, the Minister for Rural Affairs, will continue to press as to whether we can achieve the necessary changes to assist in that area.
Ymdriniaf â phwynt olaf Dafydd Wigley: yr ydym wedi parhau i bwyso ar y materion a gododd. Bydd fy nghyd-Aelod, y Gweinidog dros Faterion Gwledig yn parhau i roi pwysau ar pa un a allwn gael y newidiadau angenrheidiol i gynorthwyo yn yr ardal honno.
Dafydd also made other points regarding how well the allocation of cash had worked in some local authorities, but not so well in others. Dai Lloyd Evans met the Minister for Rural Affairs on behalf of the Welsh Local Government Association to discuss issues on rural Wales in the context of the foot and mouth disease outbreak. That was a useful and successful meeting. I intend to collate a report on how local authorities dealt with this, and the variations in their distribution methods. I will make that available to Members in due course. That might be useful, and will probably be carried out via the Local Government and Housing Committee. In addition, I will consider the timetable issue that Dafydd raised with me. My understanding was that they were aware of the detail at the end of July. However, in the light of your comments, and the comments I received when I visited Gwynedd, I will examine the matter further. I hear what Members are saying in regard to the date and ensuring the maximum use of this money. I will return to Members on this issue.
Gwnaeth Dafydd bwyntiau eraill hefyd ynglŷn â chymaint o lwyddiant oedd y dyraniad ariannol mewn rhai awdurdodau lleol, ond nid mewn eraill. Cyfarfu Dai Lloyd Evans â’r Gweinidog dros Faterion Gwledig ar ran Cymdeithas Llywodraeth Leol Cymru i drafod materion ynglŷn â chefn gwlad Cymru yng nghyd-destun argyfwng clwy’r traed a’r genau. Bu hwnnw’n gyfarfod defnyddiol a llwyddiannus. Bwriadaf goladu adroddiad ynglŷn â sut yr ymdriniodd awdurdodau lleol â hyn, a’r amrywiadau yn eu dulliau dosbarthu. Byddaf yn sicrhau bod hwnnw ar gael i Aelodau maes o law. Gallai hynny fod yn ddefnyddiol a bydd yn debygol o gael ei gyflawni drwy law’r Pwyllgor Llywodraeth Leol a Thai. Yn ogystal, byddaf yn ystyried mater yr amserlen a gododd Dafydd gyda mi. Yr oeddwn ar ddeall eu bod yn ymwybodol o’r manylion ddiwedd Gorffennaf. Fodd bynnag, yng ngoleuni eich sylwadau, a’r sylwadau a dderbyniais pan ymwelais â Gwynedd, byddaf yn archwilio’r mater ymhellach. Cydnabyddaf yr hyn y mae’r Aelodau yn ei ddweud o ran y dyddiad ac o ran sicrhau bod yr arian hwn yn cael ei ddefnyddio i’r eithaf. Byddaf yn dychwelyd at yr Aelodau ar y mater hwn.
I will comment on Mick Bates’s points: you might have 75 per cent of the cases, but you do not allocate on that basis. You must examine the effects on the rural community as a whole. If I were to take Mick Bates’s line on this, Gwynedd and Ynys Môn would have had money taken away from them, and the impact on those small communities has also been substantial.
Gwnaf sylwadau ar bwyntiau Mick Bates: efallai bod gennych 75 y cant o’r achosion, ond nid ydych yn dyrannu ar y sail honno. Rhaid ichi edrych ar yr effeithiau ar y gymuned wledig yn eu cyfanrwydd. Pe bawn yn cymryd safiad Mick Bates ar hyn, byddai arian wedi cael ei gymryd oddi ar Wynedd ac Ynys Môn, a bu’r dylanwad ar y cymunedau bach hynny hefyd yn sylweddol.
Janet Ryder made criticisms of how we started to allocate this money. I do not accept that criticism: we reacted to a difficult situation. We decided to make money available, and we wanted to see what we could do. Obviously, as that money was not used, we have constantly reallocated it and will continue to do so. If there are any funds left at the end of this process, I shall be minded to consider other allocations I could make in that area. I totally object to any allegations of non-transparency in the rural development plan. The finding of £45 million of new money was as transparent as possible—everything has been broken down and everybody can see where all the money has come from. It is as if nobody has been pleased with what we have done, but Sue Essex commented that when she visited Beddgelert, tourism bodies said that getting the extra cash was a job well done. People have seen us as being exceptionally proactive in Wales in trying to deal with these issues. I will not comment on court cases that the UK Government may be involved in, but in Wales, within the limit of our resources, we have tried to deal with this issue effectively.
Beirniadodd Janet Ryder y ffordd y dechreuasom ddyrannu’r arian hwn. Ni dderbyniaf y feirniadaeth honno: ymatebasom i sefyllfa anodd. Penderfynasom sicrhau bod arian ar gael, ac yr oeddem am weld beth y gallem ei wneud. Yn amlwg, gan na ddefnyddiwyd yr arian hwnnw, yr ydym wedi ei ailddyrannu yn barhaus a byddwn yn parhau i wneud hynny. Os bydd unrhyw gyllid dros ben ar ddiwedd y broses hon, byddaf yn ystyried dyraniadau eraill y gallwn eu gwneud yn y maes hwnnw. Gwrthwynebaf unrhyw gyhuddiadau o ddiffyg tryloywder yn y cynllun datblygu gwledig. Yr oedd y gwaith o ganfod £45 miliwn o arian newydd mor dryloyw â phosibl—cafwyd dadansoddiad o bopeth a gall pawb weld o ble y daeth yr holl arian. Ymddengys nad oes unrhyw un yn fodlon â’r hyn a wnaethom, ond dywedodd Sue Essex, pan ymwelodd â Beddgelert, i gyrff twristiaeth ddweud bod sicrhau’r arian ychwanegol yn waith da. Mae pobl yn ystyried ein bod yn hynod o ragweithiol yng Nghymru wrth geisio delio â’r materion hyn. Ni wnaf sylwadau ar achosion llys y mae Llywodraeth y DU yn gysylltiedig â hwy, ond yng Nghymru, o fewn cyfyngiadau ein hadnoddau, yr ydym wedi ceisio delio â’r mater hwn yn effeithiol.
I note Janet Ryder’s point about going cap in hand to the UK Government. The UK Government has been concerned about foot and mouth disease and has funded enormous bills centrally through the Department of the Environment, Food and Rural Affairs. There must be recognition that sometimes you must deal with circumstances on your own patch and within your budget. Janet, if you think that I could have spent more money, you tell me out of which budget it would come.
Cyfeiriaf at bwynt Janet Ryder ynglŷn â mynd â’n cap yn ein llaw at Lywodraeth y DU. Bu Llywodraeth y DU yn poeni am glwy’r traed a’r genau ac ariannodd fesurau enfawr yn ganolog drwy Adran yr Amgylchedd, Bwyd a Materion Gwledig. Rhaid cydnabod bod yn rhaid ichi weithiau ddelio ag amgylchiadau ar eich tir eich hun ac o fewn eich cyllideb. Janet, os credwch y gallwn fod wedi gwario mwy o arian, dywedwch wrthyf o ba gyllideb y deuai’r arian hwnnw.
John Marek The Deputy Presiding Officer spoken in English p. 75
John Marek Y Dirprwy Lywydd siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 75
We will now vote on the motion to approve the Local Government Finance (Wales) Special Grant Report (No. 17) (Wales) 2001.
Pleidleisiwn yn awr ar y cynnig i gymeradwyo Adroddiad Grant Arbennig (Rhif 17) (Cymru) Cyllid Llywodraeth Leol (Cymru) 2001.
Cynnig NDM828 Edwina Hart t. 75
Motion NDM828 Edwina Hart p. 75
DerbyniwydAdopted O blaidFor 35 YmatalAbstain 0 Yn erbynAgainst 0
Derbyniwyd y cynnig.
Motion carried.
Sut y pleidleisiodd yr AelodauHow Members voted
O blaidFor (35)
- Lorraine Barrett
- Mick Bates
- Peter Black
- Nick Bourne
- Eleanor Burnham
- Cynog Dafis
- Andrew Davies
- Geraint Davies
- Glyn Davies
- Sue Essex
- Delyth Evans
- Brian Gibbons
- William Graham
- Janice Gregory
- John Griffiths
- Christine Gwyther
- Brian Hancock
- Edwina Hart
- Jane Hutt
- Carwyn Jones
- Peter Law
- Huw Lewis
- David Lloyd
- Val Lloyd
- David Melding
- Jonathan Morgan
- Jenny Randerson
- Peter Rogers
- Janet Ryder
- Karen Sinclair
- Gwenda Thomas
- Owen John Thomas
- Rhodri Glyn Thomas
- Dafydd Wigley
- Phil Williams
John Marek The Deputy Presiding Officer spoken in English p. 76
John Marek Y Dirprwy Lywydd siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 76
We will now vote on the motion to approve the Local Government Finance (Wales) Special Grant Report (No. 18) (Wales) 2001.
Pleidleisiwn yn awr ar y cynnig i gymeradwyo Adroddiad Grant Arbennig (Rhif 18) (Cymru) Cyllid Llywodraeth Leol (Cymru) 2001.
Cynnig NDM829 Carwyn Jones t. 76
Motion NDM829 Carwyn Jones p. 76
DerbyniwydAdopted O blaidFor 34 YmatalAbstain 0 Yn erbynAgainst 0
Derbyniwyd y cynnig.
Motion carried.
Sut y pleidleisiodd yr AelodauHow Members voted
O blaidFor (34)
- Lorraine Barrett
- Mick Bates
- Peter Black
- Nick Bourne
- Eleanor Burnham
- Cynog Dafis
- Andrew Davies
- Geraint Davies
- Glyn Davies
- Sue Essex
- Delyth Evans
- William Graham
- Janice Gregory
- John Griffiths
- Christine Gwyther
- Brian Hancock
- Edwina Hart
- Jane Hutt
- Carwyn Jones
- Peter Law
- Huw Lewis
- David Lloyd
- Val Lloyd
- David Melding
- Jonathan Morgan
- Jenny Randerson
- Peter Rogers
- Janet Ryder
- Karen Sinclair
- Gwenda Thomas
- Owen John Thomas
- Rhodri Glyn Thomas
- Dafydd Wigley
- Phil Williams
Cymeradwyo’r Strategaeth Coetir
Approval of the Woodlands Strategy
John Marek The Deputy Presiding Officer spoken in English p. 77
John Marek Y Dirprwy Lywydd siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 77
I have selected amendment 1 in the name of William Graham.
Yr wyf wedi dethol gwelliant 1 yn enw William Graham.
Carwyn Jones The Minister for Rural Affairs spoken in English p. 77
Carwyn Jones Y Gweinidog dros Faterion Gwledig siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 77
I propose that
Cynigiaf fod
Carwyn Jones The Minister for Rural Affairs (continued) spoken in English p. 77
Carwyn Jones Y Gweinidog dros Faterion Gwledig (parhad) siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 77
I am delighted to open this important debate. It is timely that we are discussing the implementation of our new strategy for trees and woods in Wales, which sets the future direction for Welsh woodlands for 50 years. We all know that trees take a long time to grow to maturity. The woodlands that we see in today’s landscape are the result of policy set out 50 or more years ago. Those policies were right at that time. However, in the intervening period much has changed. The time is now right to set out bold new policies to shape the management of our woodland in the future.
Yr wyf yn hynod falch o gael agor y ddadl bwysig hon. Mae’n amserol ein bod yn trafod y broses o weithredu ein strategaeth newydd ar gyfer coed a choedwigoedd yng Nghymru, sydd yn nodi’r cyfeiriad yn y dyfodol ar gyfer coetiroedd Cymru am y 50 mlynedd nesaf. Gwyddom oll fod coed yn cymryd cryn amser i dyfu i aeddfedrwydd. Mae’r coetiroedd a welwn heddiw yn ganlyniad polisi a nodwyd 50 mlynedd neu fwy yn ôl. Yr oedd y polisïau hynny’n gywir ar y pryd. Fodd bynnag, mae llawer wedi newid yn y cyfamser. Mae’r amser bellach yn briodol i nodi polisïau blaengar newydd er mwyn llunio’r modd y caiff ein coetir ei reoli yn y dyfodol.
This is a visionary strategy. It will shape our landscape throughout this century, changing plantations with single species and uniform ages into multi-purpose woodlands that produce a wide range of benefits for people throughout Wales. Our vision is that Wales will be known for its high quality woodlands that will enhance the landscape, that are appropriate to local conditions, and that have a diverse mixture of species and habitats. They will provide a real social and community benefit, locally and nationally. They will support thriving woodland-based industries and will contribute to a better quality environment throughout Wales.
Mae hon yn strategaeth â gweledigaeth. Bydd yn llunio ein tirwedd drwy gydol y ganrif hon, gan newid planhigfeydd sydd â rhywogaethau unigol ac oedrannau unffurf yn goetiroedd aml-ddefnydd a ddaw â manteision helaeth yn eu sgîl i bobl ledled Cymru. Ein gweledigaeth yw y bydd Cymru yn cael ei hadnabod am ei choetiroedd o ansawdd a fydd yn cyfoethogi’r tirwedd, sydd yn briodol i amodau lleol, ac sydd â chymysgedd amrywiol o rywogaethau a chynefinoedd. Byddant yn darparu budd cymdeithasol a chymunedol gwirioneddol, yn lleol ac yn genedlaethol. Byddant yn cefnogi diwydiannau ffyniannus sydd yn seiliedig ar goetiroedd ac yn cyfrannu tuag at amgylchedd o well ansawdd ar hyd a lled Cymru.
This is not just another worthy strategy for us to aspire to. We have a real opportunity to make a difference, as well as a real responsibility, because the National Assembly owns over 100,000 hectares of woodland—just over 40 per cent of the total woodland area in Wales. We have a responsibility to manage this land for everybody’s benefit. There is no time to set out everything covered in the five programmes for action, so I will concentrate on the areas where our new policies will make the most immediate impact.
Nid strategaeth deilwng arall inni ddyheu amdani yw hon. Mae gennym gyfle gwirioneddol i wneud gwahaniaeth, yn ogystal â chyfrifoldeb gwirioneddol, gan fod y Cynulliad Cenedlaethol yn berchen ar dros 100,000 hectar o goetir—ychydig dros 40 y cant o gyfanswm yr ardal coetir yng Nghymru. Mae gennym gyfrifoldeb i reoli’r tir hwn er budd pawb. Nid oes amser i nodi popeth a gwmpesir yn y pum rhaglen weithredu, felly canolbwyntiaf ar y meysydd lle bydd ein polisïau newydd yn cael yr effaith fwyaf uniongyrchol.
The first programme is woodlands for people. This marks a real change in policy. This is the first time that there has been an explicit link between woodlands and the people who live in and around them. I strongly believe that woodlands can provide social benefits for local communities, and that in harnessing the enthusiasm of local people, the owners and managers of these woodlands will also benefit. We will provide opportunities for every school in Wales to use the Assembly woodlands for learning, and we will continue to support the forest education initiative in its development of forest schools. We will also promote the contribution woodlands can make to lifelong learning, and encourage the University of Wales to play a full role as a centre of excellence in forest science. In order that people have an opportunity for continued involvement with this strategy, we have established a woodland forum to guide its implementation, to establish indicators of achievement, and to monitor the progress of implementation. The first meeting of the forum will take place later this month. I will report the forum’s progress to the Agriculture and Rural Development Committee.
Y rhaglen gyntaf yw coetiroedd ar gyfer pobl. Mae hyn yn nodi newid gwirioneddol mewn polisi. Dyma’r tro cyntaf y cafwyd cyswllt amlwg rhwng coetiroedd â’r bobl sydd yn byw ynddynt ac o’u hamgylch. Credaf yn gryf y gall coetiroedd ddod â manteision cymdeithasol i gymunedau lleol ac y bydd perchnogion a rheolwyr y coetiroedd hyn, drwy harneisio brwdfrydedd pobl leol, yn elwa hefyd. Byddwn yn darparu cyfleoedd i bob ysgol yng Nghymru ddefnyddio coetiroedd y Cynulliad at ddibenion dysgu, a byddwn yn parhau i gefnogi’r fenter addysg coedwigoedd o ran datblygu ysgolion coedwigoedd. Byddwn hefyd yn hybu’r cyfraniad y gall coetiroedd eu gwneud i ddysgu gydol oes, ac yn annog Prifysgol Cymru i chwarae rhan lawn fel canolfan ragoriaeth mewn gwyddoniaeth coedwigoedd. Er mwyn i bobl gael cyfle i chwarae rhan barhaus yn y strategaeth hon, yr ydym wedi sefydlu fforwm coetiroedd er mwyn arwain y broses o’i gweithredu, er mwyn sefydlu dangosyddion cyflawni, a monitro cynnydd y broses weithredu. Cynhelir cyfarfod cyntaf y fforwm yn ddiweddarach y mis hwn. Byddaf yn cyflwyno adroddiad ar gynnydd y fforwm i’r Pwyllgor Amaethyddiaeth a Datblygu Gwledig.
The second programme is a new emphasis on woodland development. In it, we set out plans for woodland expansion and for better management of our existing woodlands, spreading best practice and encouraging the production of high quality wood. It is difficult to plan the needs of industry, people and the environment in 50 or 100 years’ time. Woodlands that have a permanent structure and are well thinned, together with a skilled and flexible workforce will give the greatest opportunity for future flexibility. We have made a commitment towards continuous cover management, which means retaining the natural appearance of woodland without periodic clear cutting. This is a bold move and Wales is again ahead of the UK in adopting this position. We aim to convert at least half of the National Assembly woodlands to continuous cover over the next 20 years where practical and to encourage conversion in similar private sector woodlands. That will provide continuity of habitat in these woodlands, it will be better for the landscape and will be a more efficient way of growing high-quality wood. I have asked the Forestry Commission to review its arrangements for grant-aiding woodlands so that we can provide incentives to owners who recognise the social and environmental benefits of woodlands. An independent, wide-ranging review of grants for woodland management has already been started and I will shortly announce a review of incentives for creating new woodland, including the farm woodland premium scheme.
Mae’r ail raglen yn rhoi pwyslais newydd ar ddatblygu coetiroedd. Ynddi, nodwn gynlluniau i ehangu coetiroedd a rheoli ein coetiroedd presennol yn well, gan ledaenu arfer gorau ac annog y broses o gynhyrchu coed o safon uchel. Mae’n anodd cynllunio ar gyfer anghenion diwydiant, pobl a’r amgylchedd ymhen 50 neu 100 mlynedd. Mae gan goetiroedd strwythur parhaus ac maent wedi eu teneuo’n dda, ynghyd â gweithlu medrus a hyblyg a fydd yn darparu’r cyfle mwyaf am hyblygrwydd yn y dyfodol. Yr ydym wedi gwneud ymrwymiad tuag at reoli gorchuddiad coed parhaus, sy’n golygu cadw ymddangosiad naturiol coetiroedd heb glir-dorri yn rheolaidd. Mae hwn yn gam blaengar ac mae Cymru unwaith eto ar y blaen i’r DU drwy fabwysiadu’r safbwynt hwn. Ein nod yw trawsnewid o leiaf hanner coetiroedd y Cynulliad Cenedlaethol i orchuddiad parhaus yn ystod yr 20 mlynedd nesaf lle y bo hynny’n ymarferol ac annog trawsnewid mewn coetiroedd sector preifat tebyg. Bydd hynny’n rhoi parhad i gynefinoedd yn y coetiroedd hyn, a bydd yn well i’r tirwedd ac yn ffordd fwy effeithiol o dyfu coed o safon. Gofynnais i’r Comisiwn Coedwigaeth adolygu ei drefniadau ar gyfer coetiroedd sydd yn derbyn cymorth grant fel y gallwn ddarparu cymhellion i berchnogion sy’n cydnabod buddiannau cymdeithasol ac amgylcheddol coetiroedd. Mae adolygiad annibynnol, eang ei gwmpas o grantiau ar gyfer rheoli coetiroedd wedi ei gychwyn eisoes a chyn bo hir byddaf yn cyhoeddi adolygiad o gymhellion ar gyfer creu coetiroedd newydd, gan gynnwys y cynllun premiwm coetiroedd fferm.
The third programme aims to develop Wales as a location for worldclass forest industries. The forest product industries are already significant contributors to the Welsh economy—there are over 4,000 jobs, generating £61 million of disposable income. That depends on home-grown wood from our Welsh forests. Ninety five per cent of the income is derived from soft woods, but this sector, like agriculture, is facing difficulties from international competition. Timber prices have fallen by 40 per cent over the last four years and show few signs of recovery at present. Growers and processors will increasingly need to compete on quality and service rather than price alone. The Forestry Commission has reorganised its harvesting business to become more responsive to customers and we are working with the Welsh Development Agency and partners in the industry to support businesses in the wood supply chain.
Mae’r drydedd rhaglen yn anelu at ddatblygu Cymru fel lleoliad ar gyfer diwydiannau coedwigaeth o’r radd flaenaf. Mae’r diwydiannau cynnyrch coedwigaeth eisoes yn cyfrannu’n sylweddol i economi Cymru—ceir dros 4,000 o swyddi, sy’n cynhyrchu £61 miliwn o incwm i’w wario. Dibynna hynny ar bren cartref o goedwigoedd Cymru. Daw naw deg pump y cant o’r incwm o bren meddal, ond mae’r sector hwn, fel amaethyddiaeth, yn wynebu anawsterau oherwydd cystadleuaeth ryngwladol. Mae prisiau coed wedi gostwng 40 y cant yn ystod y pedair blynedd diwethaf ac nid ymddengys bod y sefyllfa’n gwella ar hyn o bryd. Bydd angen i dyfwyr a phroseswyr gystadlu’n gynyddol ar ansawdd a gwasanaeth yn hytrach an phris yn unig. Mae’r Comisiwn Coedwigaeth wedi ad-drefnu ei fusnes cynaeafu er mwyn dod yn fwy ymatebol i gwsmeriaid ac yr ydym yn gweithio ag Awdurdod Datblygu Cymru a’i bartneriaid yn y diwydiant er mwyn cynorthwyo busnesau yn y gadwyn cyflenwi coed.
Like agriculture, wood-using businesses are increasingly looking for alternatives to bulk commodity markets. We must process more wood locally and develop added-value products. We are using Objective 1 money to develop and update wood-processing equipment and we will continue to support the Welsh timber forum and Coed Cymru in trying to develop new market opportunities. We are also providing further support to farmers through the shelterwood scheme, using trees to optimise the shelter given to livestock and crops. This scheme can be accessed through Farming Connect. That is another example of the joined-up approach developed since devolution. We have also set up the farm woodlands and biomass working group to plan the development of wood as a renewable fuel, which is a vital part of our emerging renewable energy strategy. The working group will bring forward a draft action plan next year.
Fel amaethyddiaeth, mae busnesau sydd yn defnyddio coed yn chwilio’n gynyddol am opsiynau amgen i farchnadoedd nwyddau swmp. Rhaid inni brosesu mwy o bren yn lleol a datblygu cynnyrch gwerth ychwanegol. Yr ydym yn defnyddio arian Amcan 1 i ddatblygu a diweddaru offer prosesu coed a byddwn yn parhau i gefnogi fforwm coed Cymru a Choed Cymru o ran datblygu cyfleoedd newydd yn y farchnad. Yr ydym hefyd yn rhoi cymorth pellach i ffermwyr drwy gyfrwng y cynllun coed lloches, gan ddefnyddio coed i wneud y gorau o’r lloches a roddir i dda byw a chnydau. Gellir cael mynediad i’r cynllun hwn drwy gyfrwng Cyswllt Ffermio. Dyna esiampl arall o ymagwedd gydgysylltiedig ers datganoli. Yr ydym hefyd wedi sefydlu’r gweithgor coetir a bio-màs er mwyn cynllunio datblygu pren fel tanwydd adnewyddadwy, sy’n rhan allweddol o’n strategaeth ynni adnewyddadwy arfaethedig. Bydd y gweithgor yn cyflwyno cynllun gweithredu drafft y flwyddyn nesaf.
The fourth programme aims to create a diverse and healthy environment. The Assembly has a statutory sustainable development duty and I am proud that the woodlands that are managed by the Forestry Commission have been independently certified as being sustainably managed. That means that wood from these forests can be marketed with the logo of the Forest Stewardship Council as being from sustainably managed sources and giving commercial advantage to growers, manufacturers and retailers. While this is a good start, we must ensure that all the woodlands in Wales, whatever their ownership, are managed in a sustainable manner and bring benefits to society as a whole. We are committed to the implementation of the habitat and species action plan in Wales to restore our remnant native woodlands, which are the last habitats of some of our most valuable wildlife. It is an extremely important initiative—
Nod y bedwaredd rhaglen yw creu amgylchedd amrywiol ac iach. Mae gan y Cynulliad ddyletswydd datblygu cynaliadwy statudol ac yr wyf yn falch bod y coetiroedd a reolir gan y Comisiwn Coedwigaeth wedi eu hardystio’n annibynnol fel rhai a reolir yn gynaliadwy. Golyga hynny y gellir marchnata pren o’r coedwigoedd hyn gyda logo’r Cyngor Stiwardiaeth Coedwigoedd fel rhai a ddaw o ffynonellau a reolir yn gynaliadwy ac sydd yn rhoi mantais fasnachol i dyfwyr, gweithgynhyrchwyr a manwerthwyr. Er bod hyn yn ddechrau da rhaid inni sicrhau bod pob coetir yng Nghymru, waeth pwy sy’n berchen arnynt, yn cael eu rheoli mewn modd cynaliadwy ac yn dod â manteision i’r gymdeithas yn gyffredinol. Yr ydym yn ymrwymedig i weithredu’r cynllun gweithredu cynefinoedd a rhywogaethau yng Nghymru er mwyn adfer ein coetiroedd brodorol sydd yn weddill, sef cynefinoedd olaf rhai o’n bywyd gwyllt mwyaf gwerthfawr. Mae’n fenter hynod bwysig—
Gofynnaf gwestiwn ynghylch y goedwig sydd uwchben pentref Abergwyngregyn yn fy etholaeth, Conwy. Mae trafferthion yno, fel y gwyddoch. Sut y byddai’r strategaeth yn ateb y broblem honno? A ydych am roi sylw arbennig i’r anhawster o ddatblygu a rheoli’r goedwig honno?
My question involves the woodlands above the village of Abergwyngregyn in my constituency of Conwy. There are difficulties there, as you know. How would the strategy solve that problem? Will you give particular attention to the difficulty of developing and managing that woodland?
Clywais am Abergwyngregyn ar y teledu yr wythnos hon. Mae’n fater pwysig ac er mwyn rhoi sylw haeddiannol a manwl iddo, fe’ch gwahoddaf i ysgrifennu ataf er mwyn inni drafod y mater ymhellach.
in Welsh I heard about Abergwyngregyn on television this week. It is an important matter and in order to give it detailed and due consideration, I invite you to write to me so that we may discuss the matter further.
We have initiated a complete, conditioned survey for all native woodland sites in the Assembly’s woodlands managed by the Forestry Commission. We have also developed a native woodland planning grant to ensure that any work proposed in these precious habitats will be done in a truly sustainable way. We must also consider climate change. While woodlands in this country cannot store enough carbon to reverse this process—the great carbon sinks issue—they can help mitigate some of the effects. The Forestry Commission, the Environment Agency and others in the Tir Coed project are planning experiments to assess how planting trees towards the top of certain river catchments can prevent flooding downstream.
yn Saesneg Yr ydym wedi trefnu arolwg cyflawn, wedi’i raglennu ar gyfer pob safle coetir brodorol yng nghoetiroedd y Cynulliad a reolir gan y Comisiwn Coedwigaeth. Yr ydym hefyd wedi datblygu grant cynllunio coetiroedd brodorol er mwyn sicrhau bod unrhyw waith arfaethedig yn y cynefinoedd gwerthfawr hyn yn cael ei gyflawni mewn modd gwirioneddol gynaliadwy. Rhaid inni hefyd ystyried newid yn yr hinsawdd. Er na all coetiroedd yn y wlad hon storio digon o garbon er mwyn gwyrdroi’r broses hon—y mater pwysig hwnnw o amsugnwyr carbon—gallant helpu i liniaru rhai o’r effeithiau. Mae’r Comisiwn Coedwigaeth, Asiantaeth yr Amgylchedd ac eraill yn y prosiect Tir Coed yn cynllunio arbrofion er mwyn asesu sut y gall plannu coed ar frig rhai dalgylchoedd afonydd atal llifogydd i lawr yr afon.
The fifth and final programme is tourism, recreation and health. The importance of access to the countryside has already been highlighted. Woodlands provide an ideal setting for a huge range of activities, from walking to wildlife watching to sports such as car rallying or mountain biking, which has already been mentioned. The Network Q Rally was attracted to Wales because of the excellent conditions offered by the forest roads in the Assembly’s woodlands. The mountain bike trail in Coed-y-Brenin is internationally recognised. As well as being a superb facility for locals and visitors, that trail brings in £5 million per year to tourism and businesses in the Dolgellau area. We have provided additional money to develop mountain bike centres in Assembly woodlands. We have also extended the opportunities for private woodland owners to develop tourism facilities through the rural recovery programme. The Forestry Commission is also working in partnership with the Wales Tourist Board and the Countryside Council for Wales to assist tourism businesses affected by foot and mouth disease.
yn Saesneg Y bumed rhaglen a’r olaf yw twristiaeth, hamdden ac iechyd. Amlygwyd y pwysigrwydd o gael mynediad i gefn gwlad eisoes. Mae coetiroedd yn darparu lleoliad delfrydol ar gyfer amrywiaeth helaeth iawn o weithgareddau, yn amrywio o gerdded a gwylio byd natur i chwaraeon megis ralïo ceir neu feicio mynydd, y soniwyd amdanynt eisoes. Denwyd Rali Network Q i Gymru oherwydd yr amodau rhagorol a gynigir gan y ffyrdd coedwigoedd yng nghoetiroedd y Cynulliad. Cydnabyddir y llwybr beicio mynydd yng Nghoed-y-Brenin yn rhyngwladol. Yn ogystal â bod yn adnodd gwych ar gyfer pobl leol ac ymwelwyr, mae’r llwybr hwnnw’n dod â £5 miliwn y flwyddyn i dwristiaeth a busnesau yn ardal Dolgellau. Yr ydym wedi darparu arian ychwanegol er mwyn datblygu canolfannau beicio mynydd yng nghoetiroedd y Cynulliad. Yr ydym hefyd wedi ymestyn cyfleoedd i berchnogion coetiroedd preifat ddatblygu cyfleusterau twristiaeth drwy gyfrwng y rhaglen adfer cefn gwlad. Mae’r Comisiwn Coedwigaeth hefyd yn gweithio mewn partneriaeth â Bwrdd Croeso Cymru a Chyngor Cefn Gwlad Cymru er mwyn cynorthwyo busnesau twristiaeth yr effeithiwyd arnynt gan glwy’r traed a’r genau.
Finally, the strategy promotes the links between public access to the woodlands and public health. Contact with trees and woodlands can increase emotional and physical health. I know that there are Members in this Chamber who have already hugged trees—I have not yet done so, but I am told that it is of immense benefit. We have been working with healthcare professionals to quantify these benefits and to use such knowledge to support better preventative healthcare.
yn Saesneg Yn olaf, mae’r strategaeth yn hybu cysylltiadau rhwng mynediad cyhoeddus i’r coetiroedd ac iechyd cyhoeddus. Gall cyswllt â choed a choetiroedd wella iechyd emosiynol a chorfforol. Gwn fod Aelodau yn y Siambr hon wedi cofleidio coed—ni wneuthum hynny eto, ond dywedwyd wrthyf ei fod o fudd aruthrol. Buom yn gweithio â gweithwyr gofal iechyd proffesiynol er mwyn meintioli’r manteision hyn a defnyddio gwybodaeth o’r fath er mwyn cynorthwyo gwell gofal iechyd ataliol.
I am delighted to accept William Graham’s amendment 1, which reinforces the partnership approach within the strategy. Private woodland owners and the whole woodland industry, along with the environmental sector helped to put this strategy together. Only by our continued partnership action will we make this vision a reality. ‘Woodlands for Wales’ clearly demonstrates the sustainable benefits that the new policies will bring over time. Let us ensure that the Forestry Commission’s woodlands and the Assembly’s woodlands truly become the people’s woodlands.
yn Saesneg Mae’n bleser gennyf dderbyn gwelliant 1 William Graham, sydd yn atgyfnerthu’r ymagwedd bartneriaeth o fewn y strategaeth. Mae perchnogion coetiroedd preifat a’r holl ddiwydiant coetir, ynghyd â’r sector amgylcheddol wedi cynorthwyo i roi’r strategaeth hon at ei gilydd. Yr unig ffordd o wireddu’r weledigaeth fydd parhau i weithredu mewn partneriaeth. Mae ‘Coetiroedd i Gymru’ yn dangos yn eglur y manteision cynaliadwy a ddaw yn sgil y polisïau newydd hyn dros amser. Gadewch inni sicrhau y bydd coetiroedd y Comisiwn Coedwigaeth a choetiroedd y Cynulliad yn dod yn goetiroedd y bobl yng ngwir ystyr y gair.
I propose amendment 1 in the name of William Graham. Add as a new point at the end of the motion:
Cynigiaf welliant 1 yn enw William Graham. Ychwaneger fel pwynt newydd ar ddiwedd y cynnig:
I declare an interest as a partner in a farming business, which includes woodland. I thank the administration for bringing this debate forward. I have been requesting a debate on this for some time. Holding the debate is more significant than the contributions that will be made. By holding the debate, we say many things: that the Assembly values our woodland and wants it to be developed; that we do not consider 14 per cent of the land cover of Wales being woodlands to be sufficient and that we would like it to be increased to match the 32 per cent that is the European average. We also say that we want our woodland to be better known and to become much more accessible and we want it to be used more, whether that be for quiet contemplation, tree hugging or more noisy activities. There will not be much disagreement on this today because it is an overall strategy without any specific targets. I will comment on one or two issues relating to the strategy and to woodland that I consider to be important.
Datganaf fuddiant fel partner mewn busnes ffermio, sydd yn cynnwys coetir. Diolchaf i’r weinyddiaeth am gyflwyno’r ddadl hon. Bûm yn gofyn am ddadl ar hyn ers peth amser. Mae cynnal y ddadl yn fwy arwyddocaol na’r cyfraniadau a wneir. Drwy gynnal y ddadl, dywedwn lawer o bethau: bod y Cynulliad yn gwerthfawrogi ein coetir ac am ei weld yn cael ei ddatblygu; nad ydym yn ystyried bod y 14 y cant o arwynebedd tir Cymru sy’n goetiroedd yn ddigonol ac yr hoffem ei weld yn cynyddu i 32 y cant er mwyn cyd-fynd â chyfartaledd Ewrop. Dywedwn hefyd ein bod am i’n coetir ddod yn fwy adnabyddus ac yn fwy hygyrch ac am i bobl wneud mwy o ddefnydd ohono, pa un a yw hynny at ddibenion myfyrdod tawel, cofleidio coed neu weithgareddau mwy swnllyd. Ni fydd llawer o anghytuno am hyn heddiw gan mai strategaeth gyffredinol ydyw heb unrhyw dargedau penodol. Gwnaf sylwadau ar un neu ddau o faterion sy’n ymwneud â’r strategaeth ac sy’n ymwneud â choetir yr wyf yn eu hystyried yn bwysig.
I value hugely our woodlands’ and the strategy’s potential for bringing urban and rural parts of Wales together. The Minister has made several references to how this might work. In the Chamber earlier this week, a Member made a shocking statement about farmers. It was not the fact that the statement was made that was shocking, but that a Member could have such thoughts about the farming industry. There was a huge difference between that Member’s view and how I see Wales. Woodland and agri-environment schemes and their like can play a part in creating understanding and preventing such differences of opinion—which are hugely damaging to the Assembly—from continuing. I am a countryman and I want everyone to share my positive view of the countryside. Woodland can play a big part in that.
Gwerthawrogaf ein coetiroedd yn aruthrol a photensial y strategaeth ar gyfer dod â rhannau dinesig a gwledig o Gymru ynghyd. Cyfeiriodd y Gweinidog at nifer o ffyrdd y gallai hyn weithio. Yn y Siambr yn gynharach yr wythnos hon, gwnaeth un Aelod ddatganiad syfrdanol ynglŷn â ffermwyr. Nid y ffaith bod y datganiad wedi ei wneud oedd yn syfrdanol, ond y ffaith y gallai Aelod fod â syniadau o’r fath ynglŷn â’r diwydiant ffermio. Yr oedd gwahaniaeth aruthrol rhwng barn yr Aelod hwnnw a’r modd yr wyf fi’n gweld Cymru. Gall cynlluniau coetir ac amaeth-amgylchedd a’u tebyg chwarae rhan wrth greu dealltwriaeth a rhwystro gwhaniaethau barn o’r fath—sy’n hynod niweidiol i’r Cynulliad—rhag parhau. Gwladwr ydwyf ac yr wyf am i bawb rannu’m barn gadarnhaol ynglŷn â chefn gwlad. Gall coetir chwarae rhan fawr yn hynny.
On farm woodland grant schemes, I declare an interest because I introduced a farm woodland grant scheme on my farm. That was not an economic decision, it was based purely on my own personal interest in wildlife, and my wish to make the farm a more wildlife-friendly place. There was a financial sacrifice involved in doing that. There will always be individuals prepared to make a sacrifice. However, the farm woodland premium scheme will not be sufficiently successful if we depend only on people who have an interest in wildlife. It must be economically sensible.
O ran cynlluniau grantiau coetir, datganaf fuddiant gan imi gyflwyno cynllun grant coetir fferm ar fy fferm. Nid penderfyniad economaidd oedd hwnnw, yr oedd yn gwbl seiliedig ar fy niddordeb personol mewn bywyd gwyllt, a’m dymuniad i wneud y fferm yn lle mwy cyfeillgar i fywyd gwyllt. Yr oedd yn rhaid imi wneud aberth ariannol er mwyn gwneud hynny. Bydd rhai unigolion bob amser yn barod i wneud aberth. Fodd bynnag, ni fydd y cynllun premiwm coetir fferm yn ddigon llwyddiannus pe byddem yn dibynnu ar bobl sydd â diddordeb mewn bywyd gwyllt yn unig. Rhaid iddo wneud synnwyr yn economaidd.
Mick Bates has referred to the Pontbren scheme in the past, and this is a crucial issue. Everyone of us want to see it developed, and I welcome the Minister’s comment in his speech today which indicated that he was considering that. I also welcome his emphasis on the new silviculture system and its continuous cover. I welcome that, and the fact that Wales has taken the initiative, because that is much more acceptable in the landscape as a management system, and it also has a huge benefit for wildlife.
Cyfeiriodd Mick Bates at gynllun Pontbren yn y gorffennol, ac mae hwn yn fater allweddol. Mae pob un ohonom am ei weld yn cael ei ddatblygu, a chroesawaf sylw’r Gweinidog yn ei araith heddiw a ddynododd ei fod yn ystyried hynny. Croesawaf hefyd ei bwyslais ar y system tyfu coed newydd a’i gorchuddiad parhaus. Croesawaf hynny, a’r ffaith bod Cymru wedi achub y blaen gan fod hynny’n llawer mwy derbyniol yn y dirwedd fel system reoli, ac mae o fudd enfawr hefyd i fywyd gwyllt.
My final point, again in response to a comment that the Minister made in his speech, is on the role that our woodland can play in developing renewable energy. That underpins everything we do in the Assembly. Often, we find that we are prepared to support the concept, but when it comes to developing and delivering it, we are somewhat reluctant. I welcome initiatives on biomass, but I also think that woodland can be a backdrop for windpower. I have seen intrusive windfarms, but I believe that astute and careful use of woodland would make windfarms more acceptable. I welcome the strategy, it points to a good way forward, and I hope there will be more discussion on woodland in this Chamber in future.
Mae fy mhwynt olaf, eto mewn ymateb i sylw a wnaethpwyd gan y Gweinidog yn ei araith, yn ymwneud â’r rôl y gall ein coetir chwarae o ran datblygu ynni adnewyddadwy. Mae hynny yn sail i bopeth a wnawn yn y Cynulliad. Yn aml, canfyddwn ein bod yn barod i gefnogi’r cysyniad, ond pan ddaw yn amser i’w ddatblygu a’i gyflwyno, yr ydym braidd yn amharod i wneud hynny. Croesawaf fentrau’n ymwneud â bio-màs, ond credaf hefyd y gall coetir fod yn gefndir i ynni gwynt. Gwelais ffermydd gwynt ymwthgar, ond credaf y byddai defnyddio coetir yn graff a gofalus yn gwneud ffermydd gwynt yn fwy derbyniol. Croesawaf y strategaeth, mae’n nodi ffordd dda ymlaen, a gobeithaf y ceir rhagor o drafod ar goetir yn y Siambr hon yn y dyfodol.
I welcome the Assembly’s woodland strategy, perhaps because I was born in a deprived valley like the Rhondda, and the woodland was part of my everyday life. When I was a child, I understood that the woodland belonged to the people. Unfortunately that is no longer the case, and perhaps that is because of prescriptive practices over the years. I was therefore delighted, as the Member for Ogmore, when the Garw Valley in my constituency was chosen as part of the forests for the people initiative, and Forest Enterprise went into this deprived valley, and worked with the local community groups. They even held a poster competition in a school to ask the children of the Garw Valley what they wanted to see in that valley. You will forgive me if I concentrate on the community aspect of this strategy because that is what is important to the people who live in my constituency. There are of course economic benefits, which I welcome for the whole of Wales, but in my constituency the community aspect is more important.
Croesawaf strategaeth coetir y Cynulliad, efallai oherwydd imi gael fy ngheni mewn cwm difreintiedig fel y Rhondda, lle yr oedd y coetir yn rhan o’m bywyd bob dydd. Pan oeddwn yn blentyn, yr oeddwn yn deall bod y coetir yn perthyn i’r bobl. Yn anffodus nid yw hynny’n wir mwyach, ac efallai bod hynny o ganlyniad i arferion gwhardd dros y blynyddoedd. Yr oeddwn felly wrth fy modd, fel yr Aelod dros Aber Ogwr, pan ddewiswyd Cwm Garw yn fy etholaeth fel rhan o’r fenter coedwigoedd ar gyfer pobl, ac aeth y Fenter Coedwigaeth i’r cwm difreintiedig hwn, a gweithio â grwpiau cymunedol lleol. Cynhaliwyd cystadleuaeth poster hyd yn oed mewn ysgol er mwyn gofyn i blant Cwm Garw beth yr oeddent am ei weld yn y cwm hwnnw. Maddeuwch i mi os canolbwyntiaf ar agwedd gymunedol y strategaeth hon gan mai dyna sydd yn bwysig i’r bobl sydd yn byw yn fy etholaeth. Wrth gwrs ceir manteision economaidd, a groesawaf ar gyfer Cymru gyfan, ond yn fy etholaeth i mae’r agwedd gymunedol yn bwysicach.
I mentioned that the Forest Enterprise went into the schools and asked the children what they wanted. I wish we had the money to propose the ideas that the children illustrated in the poster competition because some of them were wonderful. Some were a little off the wall, but it was lovely to see the children’s interest and enthusiasm in something that they live with everyday.
Soniais bod y Fenter Coedwigaeth wedi mynd i ysgolion a gofyn i’r plant beth yr oeddent am ei weld. Hoffwn pe byddai’r arian gennym i gynnig y syniadau a ddarluniwyd gan y plant yn y gystadleuaeth poster gan fod rhai ohonynt yn fendigedig. Yr oedd rhai ohonynt ychydig yn anarferol, ond yr oedd yn braf iawn gweld diddordeb a brwdfrydedd y plant tuag at rywbeth y maent yn byw gydag ef bob dydd.
My colleague Brian Gibbons mentioned his concern during the Minister’s question session that people who visit woodland areas in valley communities do so by car—leave their cars, visit these wonderful woodland projects, get back into their cars, and drive back down the valley into the town. That is why I would like to pay tribute to an initiative in the Bridgend and Ogmore constituencies, namely the Bridgend Valleys Railway Company. I know that the Minister is aware that this company is currently seeking funding to run a refurbished railway engine, on a refurbished line into this valley area, that was closed some years ago—we will not go into who closed it, and why. It intends to take tourism into the Valleys, and it will carry people on a train into the very heart of these areas, and hopefully the people will then spend their money in the local communities. Therefore, I pay tribute to it for the hard work it has put into that. Will the Minister join me in welcoming the initiative that has been put forward in the Ogmore constituency to take forward our vision for woodlands for Wales?
Soniodd fy nghyd-Aelod am ei bryder yn ystod sesiwn cwestiynau’r Gweinidog bod pobl sydd yn ymweld ag ardaloedd coetir yng nghymunedau’r cymoedd yn gwneud hynny â char—ac yn gadael eu ceir, ymweld â’r prosiectau coetir bendigedig hyn, dychwelyd i’w ceir, a gyrru’n ôl i lawr y dyffryn i mewn i’r dref. Dyna pam yr hoffwn dalu teyrnged i fenter yn etholaethau Pen-y-bont ar Ogwr ac Ogwr, sef Cwmni Rheilffordd Cymoedd Pen-y-bont ar Ogwr. Gwn fod y Gweinidog y ymwybodol bod y cwmni hwn yn chwilio am arian ar hyn o bryd i redeg injan drên wedi ei hadnewyddu, ar linell wedi ei hadnewyddu i mewn i ardal y cwm hwn, a gaewyd rai blynyddoedd yn ôl—ni soniwn am bwy a’i caeodd, a pham. Mae’n bwriadu cyflwyno twristiaeth i’r Cymoedd, a bydd yn cludo pobl ar drên i ganol yr ardaloedd hyn, a bydd y bobl, gobeithio, yn gwario’u harian wedyn yn y cymunedau lleol. Felly, talaf deyrnged iddo am y gwaith caled a wnaeth ar hynny. A wnaiff y Gweinidog ymuno â mi i groesawu’r fenter a gyflwynwyd yn etholaeth Ogwr er mwyn datblygu ein gweledigaeth ar gyfer coetiroedd Cymru?
Ddeng mlynedd yn ôl, cynhyrchodd ymgyrch etholiadol Plaid Cymru a’r Blaid Werdd yng Ngheredigion a Gogledd Penfro gyfres o ddogfennau polisi. Yn eu mysg yr oedd un ar botensial coedwigaeth i’r economi wledig ac un arall ar ynni adnewyddadwy. Ar y pryd, yr oeddent yn cael eu hystyried yn bynciau ymylol braidd, ond erbyn hyn maent wedi dod i’r brif ffrwd o ran polisïau ar gyfer ardaloedd gwledig. Gwnaethant gyfraniad pwysig i ddatblygu polisi ar y pryd, a buont yn help i mi gael fy ethol yn Aelod Seneddol.
Ten years ago, during the Ceredigion and North Pembrokeshire election campaign, Plaid Cymru and the Green Party produced a series of policy documents. Among them was one on the potential of forestry for the rural economy and another on renewable energy. At the time, these were considered to be rather peripheral issues, but by now they have come into the mainstream in terms of policies for rural areas. They made and important contribution to policy development at the time, and they helped me to be elected as a Member of Parliament.
Mae llawer o’r syniadau yn y ddwy ddogfen wedi eu cynnwys yn y strategaeth hon a’r gwaith arall a wneir ar hyn o bryd ar ynni adnewyddadwy. Dengys hynny ein bod ddeg mlynedd o flaen ein hamser. Croesawaf yn fawr yr egwyddorion a’r argymhellion yn y ddogfen hon. Dangosant yr hyn sydd yn bosibl lle caiff ystyriaeth fanwl ei rhoi i anghenion a photensial Cymru. Am y tro cyntaf, gallwn ddatblygu polisi ar gyfer Cymru. Mae potensial sylweddol i greu swyddi a chyfoeth yn y sector hon, a hynny ym mherfedd cefn gwlad lle mae mawr angen hynny. Mae’n berthnasol hefyd, fel y dywedodd Janice Gregory, i’r ardaloedd diwydiannol, trefol, ond mae potensial sylweddol i berfedd cefn gwlad, lle mae angen datblygiad.
Many of the ideas contained in those documents have been contained in this strategy and in other work being done at present on renewable energy. That shows that we were ten years ahead of our time. I greatly welcome the principles and recommendations in this document. They show what is possible when detailed consideration is given to the needs and potential of Wales. For the first time, we can develop a policy for Wales. There is great potential for creating jobs and wealth in this sector, and that in the heart of the countryside where it is greatly needed. It is also relevant, as Janice Gregory said, to the industrial, urban areas, but there is great potential for the heart of the countryside, where development is needed.
Croesawaf yn arbennig yr argymhelliad y dylid sefydlu canolfan ragoriaeth mewn gwyddor coedwigaeth ym Mhrifysgol Cymru. Byddai hyn yn fodd i ddenu Cymry ifainc i ystyried gyrfa lawn amser neu ran amser mewn coedwigaeth. Ar hyn o bryd, mae’r Cymry fel pe baent wedi eu tangynrychioli yn y diwydiant, yn enwedig yn y swyddi uwch. Byddai sefydlu fforwm coed cenedlaethol i addasu polisi yn ôl amgylchiadau newydd hefyd yn synhwyrol. Gofynnais i Carwyn Jones yn gynharach a fyddai’r fforwm hon yn gosod amserlen, rhaglen waith ac yn y blaen, ac yn pennu targedau penodol. Dywedodd Carwyn mai’r fforwm a fyddai’n penderfynu a oedd eisiau gwneud hynny ai peidio. Credaf y dylai Carwyn gyfarwyddo’r fforwm y dylai wneud hynny. Heb dargedu a heb benodi symiau ar gyfer gwariant, mae perygl na fydd y strategaeth yn ddim byd ond geiriau braf.
I especially welcome the recommendation that a centre of excellence in forestry science should be established in the University of Wales. This would be a means to attract young Welsh people to consider a full or part-time career in forestry. At present, Welsh people seem to be under-represented in the industry, especially in senior posts. Establishing a national woodlands forum to adapt policy according to new circumstances would also be sensible. I asked Carwyn Jones earlier whether this forum would set a timetable, a work programme and so forth, and determine specific targets. Carwyn said that the forum would decide whether it wanted to do so or not. I believe that Carwyn should instruct the forum to do so. Without targets and without setting sums for expenditure, there is a danger that the strategy will be nothing more than fine words.
Ddeng mlynedd yn ôl, yr oedd dogfen Plaid Cymru, y cyfeiriais ati yn gynharach, yn sôn am yr angen i ddatblygu cadwyn o gyflenwad a galw—y math o beth y mae Coed Cymru wedi ei wneud mor llwyddiannus, a’r math o beth y mae fforwm Coed Cymru yn ei wneud ar hyn o bryd. Yr wyf yn falch o weld y pwyslais ar hynny ac ar farchnata coed Cymreig o ffynonellau ardystiedig.
Ten years ago, the Plaid Cymru document, to which I referred earlier, mentioned the need to develop supply and demand chain—the kind of thing that Coed Cymru has done so successfully, and the kind of thing that the Coed Cymru forum is currently doing. I am pleased to see the emphasis on that and on marketing Welsh wood from certified sources.
Mae angen datblygu model Gwerth Gorau, a fyddai’n pwysleisio’r angen i gynnal yr amgylchedd a lles yr economi leol. Gallai polisi pwrcasu awdurdodau cyhoeddus o’r fath roi hwb sylweddol i’r diwydiant hwn ac i fusnesau lleol o bob math. Mae’n angenrheidiol y defnyddir coed Cymreig yn adeilad newydd y Cynulliad, gan gyfrannu at ffyniant cefn gwlad. Yr wyf yn siŵr y byddai Glyn Davies yn cytuno â mi ar hynny.
A Best Value model must also be developed, which would emphasise the need to maintain the environment and the local economy. Such a public authority purchasing policy could give a significant boost to this industry and to all kinds of local businesses. We must ensure that Welsh wood is used in the new Assembly building, thus contributing to the prosperity of the countryside. I am sure that Glyn Davies would agree with me on that.
Yr wyf yn falch o weld yr ymrwymiad i symud o glir-dorri i orchuddiad di-dor, ac yr wyf yn falch bod targed penodol ar gyfer hynny. A fyddai’r Gweinidog yn fodlon mynd ymhellach a sefydlu bwriant yn erbyn ail-blannu coed conifferaidd ar dir sydd yn eiddo i’r Cynulliad? Mae 90 y cant o gynnyrch coed Cymru yn dod o dir sydd yn eiddo i’r Cynulliad. Gellid gwneud eithriad lle y byddai lles amgylcheddol, economaidd neu gymdeithasol amlwg, ond byddwn yn hoffi gweld bwriant yn erbyn ail-blannu coed conifferaidd. Byddai planhigfeydd preifat yn rhydd o unrhyw gyfyngiad o’r fath. Byddai planhigfeydd conifferaidd, felly, drwy ail-dyfiant naturiol, yn creu coedwigoedd collddail, a fyddai’n gwneud synnwyr economaidd i genhedlaeth ein plant os nad i ni. Byddai lles i’r amgylchedd, hamdden a thwristiaeth yn cael ei gyflawni ar yr un pryd.
I am glad to see the commitment to moving from clear-felling to continuous-cover, and I am pleased that there is a specific target for that. Would the Minister be willing to go further and establish a presumption against replanting conifer trees on land belonging to the Assembly? Some 90 per cent of Welsh timber products come from land belonging to the Assembly. An exception could be made where there would be obvious environmental, economic or social benefit, but I would like to see a presumption against replanting conifer trees. Private plantations would be free from any such constraint. Conifer plantations, would, therefore, through natural regrowth, create deciduous forests, which would make economic sense to our children’s generation if not to ours. The environment, leisure and tourism would also benefit.
Mae angen symud i system effeithiol o warchodaeth ar gyfer gelltydd hynafol, yn lle’n bod yn colli mwy a mwy ohonynt, a chynnwys hynny yn y polisi cynllunio. Yma eto, byddai modd cael eithriad lle y byddai achos economaidd o bwys strategol. Mae angen ail-blannu hen safleoedd gelltydd hynafol. Mae Coed Cadw wedi dechrau prosiect rhagorol i adfer saith safle o’r fath. Dylai Menter Coedwigaeth fod yn gwneud rhywbeth tebyg ar ran y Cynulliad. Mae hyn yn fater o flaenoriaeth uchel.
We need to move to an effective system of protection for ancient woodlands, rather than losing more and more of them, and this must be included in planning policy. Here again, it would be possible to make exceptions were there an economic case of strategic importance. We need to replant former ancient woodlands sites. Coed Cadw has started an excellent project to restore seven such sites. The Forest Enterprise should do something similar on behalf of the Assembly. This is a matter of high priority.
Trof at bolisi Ewropeaidd ac at ddau fater y dylai Carwyn Jones roi sylw iddynt. Yn gyntaf, mae angen cyfrwng a fydd yn galluogi troi cymhorthdal da byw yn daliad ar gyfer cnydau ynni. Nid yw hynny’n digwydd. Ar hyn o bryd, dim ond cymorthdal tir âr y gellir ei droi’n daliad ar gyfer cnydau ynni. Mae hynny’n anfantais i Gymru ac mae angen ei newid. Yr ail fater—ac mae Glyn Davies eisoes wedi sôn am hyn—yw’r angen am grant ar gyfer plannu coed ar diroedd uchel. Ar hyn o bryd, mae hynny’n amhosibl.
I turn to European policy and to two matters which Carwyn Jones must consider. First, there must be a mechanism which allows for the conversion of livestock subsidies into payment for energy crops. That does not happen. At present, you can only convert arable land subsidies into payment for energy crops. That is detrimental to Wales and it needs to be changed. Secondly—and Glyn Davies has already referred to this—is the need for a grant for planting trees on highland. At present, that is impossible.
Mae angen datblygu bio-ynni a gobeithiaf y bydd y Gweinidog yn gwneud popeth o fewn ei allu i ddileu’r rhwystrau er mwyn sicrhau bod y diwydiant hwn yn symud yn ei flaen yn gyflym.
Bioenergy needs to be developed and I hope that the Minister will do everything possible to remove the obstacles to ensure that this industry moves forward swiftly.
I am delighted that we unlike previous Conservative Governments are recognising that forests are not only for profit. People such as William Graham’s forefathers, the type of land overseers who used to take the harvest to sell for pitprops, never allowed access to the forest.
Yr wyf yn hynod falch ein bod ni, yn wahanol i Lywodraethau Ceidwadol yn y gorffennol, yn ystyried bod diben arall i goedwigoedd ar wahân i wneud elw. Nid oedd pobl fel cyndeidiau William Graham, y math o oruchwylwyr tir a arferai werthu’r cynhaeaf er mwyn prynu coed pwll, byth yn caniatáu mynediad i’r goedwig.
Only a few years ago, I was part of a campaign to stop the sale of Chepstow Park wood. The Forestry Commission in Wales was responsible for that under a Labour Government.
Dim ond ychydig flynyddoedd yn ôl, yr oeddwn yn rhan o ymgyrch i atal gwerthu coedwig Parc Cas-gwent. Y Comisiwn Coedwigaeth yng Nghymru a oedd yn gyfrifol am hynny o dan Lywodraeth Lafur.
I am aware of what you did—some of us wish you were still in Chepstow Park wood. This is an important policy document that will benefit all communities in Wales, in terms of inclusion, education, recreation, health, conservation and tourism. It is rightly linked with Communities First and I am delighted that the Minister for Rural Affairs has proposed it today. I thank everyone, from all the different organisations involved, who produced this document. You may ask how it affects disadvantaged communities. You have heard Janice Gregory’s words, which came from the heart. I also come from a disadvantaged community, Blaenau Gwent. Now that the Assembly is responsible for the forests in Wales, we are able to open them up as people’s forests. That means a great deal to people in deprived areas.
Yr wyf yn ymwybodol o’r hyn a wnaethoch—mae rhai ohonom yn gresynu nad ydych yn dal yng nghoedwig Parc Cas-gwent. Mae hon yn ddogfen bolisi pwysig a fydd o fudd i bob cymuned yng Nghymru, o ran cynhwysedd, addysg, hamdden, iechyd, cadwraeth a thwristiaeth. Fe’i cysylltir yn briodol â Rhoi Cymunedau’n Gyntaf ac yr wyf yn hynod falch bod y Gweinidog dros Faterion Gwledig wedi ei chynnig heddiw. Diolchaf i bawb, o’r holl sefydliadau gwahanol a gyfranogodd, a gynhyrchodd y ddogfen hon. Fe’ch clywaf yn holi sut y mae’n effeithio ar gymunedau difreintiedig. Clywsoch eiriau Janice Gregory, a ddaeth o’r galon. Yr wyf innau hefyd yn dod o gymuned ddifreintiedig, sef Blaenau Gwent. Gan mai’r Cynulliad sydd bellach yn gyfrifol am goedwigoedd Cymru, gallwn eu hagor fel coedwigoedd y bobl. Golyga hynny lawer iawn i bobl mewn ardaloedd difreintiedig.
I want to compliment the Minister for Finance, Local Government and Communities on allocating £900,000 to end the large-scale forestry disposals by the Forestry Commission. I support Coed Cadw’s approach of asking the Forestry Commission to protect and restore the ancient woodlands in Wales. They are precious and we cannot afford to lose them.
Hoffwn hefyd ganmol y Gweinidog dros Gyllid, Llywodraeth Leol a Chymunedau ar ddyrannu £900,000 i roi’r gorau i’r broses o waredu coedwigoedd a wneir ar raddfa fawr gan y Comisiwn Coedwigaeth. Cefnogaf ymagwedd Coed Cadw sef gofyn i’r Comisiwn Coedwigaeth ddiogelu ac adfer coetiroedd hynafol Cymru. Maent yn werthfawr ac ni allwn fforddio eu colli.
However, why is the Forest Enterprise not pursuing opportunities for tourism in Wales? Why are forest cabins available in Scotland and England but not here? I have asked the enterprise about that many times. Wales has superb forests such as Coed-y-brenin, Clocaenog, Dyfi and Gwrachen. There are even superb forests in south Wales. Why do we not have forest cabins for holidaymakers here? Forestry Enterprise must answer for that. I hope that the Minister will pursue the matter with it—I have already discussed it with its chief executive.
Fodd bynnag, pam nad yw’r Fenter Coedwigaeth yn mynd ar drywydd cyfleoedd ar gyfer twristiaeth yng Nghymru? Pam mae cabanau coedwig ar gael yn yr Alban a Lloegr ond nid yma? Holais y fenter am hynny sawl gwaith. Mae gan Gymru goedwigoedd ardderchog megis Coed-y-brenin, Clocaenog, Dyfi a Gwrachen. Ceir coedwigoedd ardderchog yn Ne Cymru hyd yn oed. Pam nad oes gennym gabanau coedwig ar gyfer twristiaid yma? Cyfrifoldeb y Fenter Coedwigaeth yw ateb hynny. Gobeithiaf y bydd y Gweinidog yn mynd ar drywydd y mater gyda hi—yr wyf eisoes wedi trafod y mater gyda’i brif weithredwr.
On woodlands for people, I agree with Janice Gregory. We have great examples of woodlands in south Wales that have been opened to the public, and I have visited some of them with my family. The Garwnant Forest Centre in Merthyr Tydfil is a wonderful development and, of course, the Cwm-carn Forest Drive, which everyone knows about.
O ran coetiroedd ar gyfer pobl, cytunaf â Janice Gregory. Mae gennym enghreifftiau gwych o goetiroedd yn ne Cymru a agorwyd i’r cyhoedd, ac yr wyf wedi ymweld â rhai ohonynt gyda’m teulu. Mae Canolfan Wybodaeth Garwnant ym Merthyr Tudfil yn ddatblygiad bendigedig ac, wrth gwrs, gŵyr pawb am Lwybr Coedwig Cwm-carn.
A great deal more needs to be done to include people who live in areas that benefit from these natural, precious environmental assets. If you live 1,000 to 1,300 ft above sea level, the terrain is pretty barren. In the past, the lodge-pole pine, the sitka spruce, the Scots pine, the Corsican pine and Douglas fir were planted. People used to ask, ‘Why is it all conifer?’ When you have no option you are glad to have conifer. A balance of broad leaf and conifer would be fine; I like to see the greenery all year round. However, it is important to have that balance.
Mae angen gwneud llawer mwy er mwyn cynnwys pobl sy’n byw mewn ardaloedd sy’n elwa ar yr asedau amgylcheddol naturiol, gwerthfawr hyn. Os ydych yn byw rhwng 1,000 a 1,300 troedfedd uwchlaw lefel y môr, mae’r tir yn gymharol ddiffaith. Yn y gorffennol, plannwyd y binwydden bolion, y befrwydden Sitka, pinwydden yr Alban, pinwydden Corsica a ffinidwydden Douglas. Arferai pobl ofyn, ‘Pam mai conwydd yw’r holl goed?’ Pan nad oes gennych ddewis yr ydych yn falch o gael conwydd. Byddai cydbwysedd rhwng coed llydanddail a chonwydd yn iawn; hoffaf weld glesni drwy gydol y flwyddyn. Fodd bynnag, mae’n bwysig cael y cydbwysedd hwnnw.
In my community, we have always appreciated the value of these environmental assets. However, no-one ever told us we could access these forests. Now we can tell our people to enjoy these forests as community assets. That is important. In my constituency, Six Bells wood near Abertillery is being opened up in an exemplary way for flora, fauna and wildlife, and for education, health and fitness purposes. I compliment Forest Enterprise on that. Abertillery and Llanhilleth Community Council has worked closely with the enterprise to make the scheme a great success. Last year, that same community council in Abertillery planted a millennium wood in Cwmtillery, supported, I am pleased to say, by the private sector company, Dŵr Cymru.
Yn fy nghymuned i, yr ydym bob amser wedi gwerthfawrogi pwysigrwydd yr asedau amgylcheddol hyn. Fodd bynnag, ni ddywedodd neb erioed wrthym y caem fynediad i’r coedwigoedd hyn. Yn awr gallwn ddweud wrth ein pobl am fwynhau’r coedwigoedd hyn fel asedau cymunedol. Mae hynny’n bwysig. Yn fy etholaeth i, mae coedwig Six Bells ger Abertyleri yn cael ei hagor mewn ffordd ganmoladwy ar gyfer planhigion, anifeiliaid a bywyd gwyllt ac at ddibenion addysg, iechyd a ffitrwydd. Canmolaf y Fenter Coedwigaeth am hynny. Gweithiodd Cyngor Cymuned Abertyleri a Llanhilleth yn agos â’r fenter er mwyn gwneud y cynllun yn llwyddiant mawr. Y llynedd, plannodd yr un cyngor cymuned yn Abertyleri goed mileniwm yng Nghwmtyleri, wedi ei gefnogi, yr wyf yn falch o ddweud, gan un o gwmnïau’r sector preifat, Dŵr Cymru.
All these events are important. I have asked Cydcoed to plant more woods within Blaenau Gwent under the Objective 1 scheme and it has agreed. I hope that the Minister will visit us, perhaps to open some of these plantations, in future. We have a place, although small, in your portfolio, Minister, and we would like to see you there. Future generations will benefit from this strategy and the precious environmental asset of our woodlands has been secured. That gives deprived constituencies, such as Blaenau Gwent, more social inclusion.
Mae’r digwyddiadau hyn i gyd yn bwysig. Gofynnais i Gydcoed blannu rhagor o goedwigoedd ym Mlaenau Gwent o dan y cynllun Amcan 1 ac mae wedi cytuno. Gobeithiaf y bydd y Gweinidog yn ymweld â ni yn y dyfodol, efallai er mwyn agor rhai o’r planhigfeydd hyn. Mae gennym le, er mai bychan ydyw, yn eich portffolio, Weinidog, a hoffem eich gweld yno. Bydd cenedlaethau’r dyfodol yn elwa ar y strategaeth hon ac mae ased amgylcheddol gwerthfawr ein coetiroedd wedi ei ddiogelu. Rhydd hynny fwy o gynhwysedd cymdeithasol i etholaethau difreintiedig, megis Blaenau Gwent.
I join the previous speakers in acclaiming the contribution made to the woodland strategy.
Ymunaf â’r siaradwyr blaenorol wrth ganmol y cyfraniad a wnaethpwyd i’r strategaeth coetir.
Let us consider the tremendous heritage that is our broadleaf woodland. It is as much a part of our heritage as any part of the built environment. Wales, to consider its 5 per cent of woodland that is broadleaf woodland, has an abundance of alder, ash, sycamore and cherry, relatively small amounts of oak and an even smaller amount of chestnut. Will the Minister therefore consider measures to encourage small volume roundwood processing?
Gadewch inni ystyried etifeddiaeth aruthrol ein coetir llydanddail. Mae’n gymaint o ran o’n hetifeddiaeth ag unrhyw ran o’r etifeddiaeth adeiledig. Mae gan Gymru, o ystyried y 5 y cant o’i choetir sy’n goetir llydanddail, doreth o wern, ynn, sycamorwydd a choed ceirios, cymharol ychydig o dderw a llai byth o goed castan. A wnaiff y Gweinidog felly ystyried mesurau i annog prosesu coed crwn ar raddfa fach?
Will he also consider establishing a small venture capital fund and financial incentives for timber marketing and staff training and to offer business support and, particularly, to enable product and supply chain development? It is important that this technology is developed. As previous speakers have said, it is wonderful to be able to go out into broadleaf woodland. In Wales, sadly, 95 per cent of our woodland is coniferous, planted primarily since 1919.
A wnaiff hefyd ystyried sefydlu cronfa cyfalaf menter bach a chymhellion ariannol ar gyfer marchnata coed a hyfforddiant staff ac er mwyn cynnig cymorth busnes ac, yn arbennig, er mwyn galluogi’r broses o ddatblygu cynnyrch a’r gadwyn gyflenwi. Mae’n bwysig bod y dechnoleg hon yn cael ei datblygu. Fel y dywedodd siaradwyr blaenorol, mae’n wych gallu mynd allan i’r coetir llydanddail. Yng Nghymru, yn anffodus, mae 95 y cant o’n coetir yn gonwydd, wedi ei blannu ers 1919 yn bennaf.
With woodland of the character and quality that we have in Wales, it is small wonder that tourism is so well developed. I need only mention, in terms of this part of the world, or south-east Wales in general, the Wye valley. It is internationally known and benefits the local community greatly. In welcoming this strategy as a first measure, I ask the Minister to take forward further schemes and I hope that he comes forward with even better measures next year.
O ystyried cymeriad ac ansawdd y coetir sydd gennym yng Nghymru, nid yw’n fawr o syndod bod twristiaeth wedi ei ddatblygu mor dda. Nid oes ond rhaid imi sôn, yn nhermau’r rhan hwn o’r byd, neu dde ddwyrain Cymru yn gyffredinol, am ddyffryn Gwy. Mae’n adnabyddus yn rhyngwladol ac mae o fudd aruthrol i’r gymuned leol. Wrth groesawu’r strategaeth hon fel cam cyntaf, gofynnaf i’r Gweinidog ddatblygu cynlluniau pellach a gobeithiaf y bydd yn cyflwyno mesurau gwell byth hyd yn oed y flwyddyn nesaf.
I welcome this debate, and the vigour and passion with which the Minister opened this debate and with which other speakers such as Janice Gregory and Peter Law have contributed.
Croesawaf y ddadl hon, ac egni ac angerdd y Gweinidog wrth agor y ddadl a’r egni a’r angerdd yng nghyfraniadau siaradwyr eraill megis Janice Gregory a Peter Law.
Woodlands are important for quality of life in Wales and for the environment, and the strategy’s aims—recreation, biodiversity and community life—are excellent. It proves that the Assembly can see the wood for the trees. It is important that there is an emphasis on woodlands for people. Members have spoken about deprived communities being sited next to woodland and it is important that those woodlands are opened up and are fully accessible. It is also important for the economy of Wales that we develop timber industries and woodland use, including tourism, mountain biking and other activities.
Mae coetiroedd yn bwysig i ansawdd bywyd yng Nghymru ac i’r amgylchedd, ac mae nodau’r strategaeth—hamdden, bioamrywiaeth a bywyd cymunedol—yn rhagorol. Mae’n profi bod y Cynulliad yn gallu dethol y pethau pwysig o blith y pethau amherthnasol. Mae’n bwysig bod pwyslais ar goetiroedd ar gyfer pobl. Soniodd yr Aelodau am gymunedau difreintiedig yn cael eu lleoli gerllaw coetir ac mae’n bwysig bod y coetiroedd hynny yn cael eu hagor ac yn gwbl hygyrch. Mae hefyd yn bwysig i economi Cymru ein bod yn datblygu diwydiannau coed a defnydd o goetiroedd, gan gynnwys twristiaeth, beicio mynydd a gweithgareddau eraill.
I move on to the more specific measures that we might take to protect ancient woodland in Wales, which is important in terms of biodiversity. About 80 per cent of Wales’s ancient woodland does not have special wildlife status in terms of being a site of special scientific interest or a special area of conservation. Felling licences and tree protection orders are valuable but can be overridden by planning permission. Given that we are developing a new planning policy in Wales, could we consider firm legal protection for ancient woodlands in Wales to remedy that situation? Less than 2 per cent of Wales’s land area is covered by ancient woodland and the task of protecting it under planning permission could be facilitated by the fact that sites over 2 hectares are recorded in the Countryside Council for Wales’s inventory. It is possible and we should consider it.
Symudaf ymlaen at y mesurau mwy penodol y gallwn eu cymryd er mwyn diogelu coetir hynafol yng Nghymru, sydd yn bwysig o ran bioamrywiaeth. Nid oes gan tua 80 y cant o goetir hynafol Cymru statws bywyd gwyllt arbennig o ran bod yn safle o ddiddordeb gwyddonol arbennig neu ardal cadwraeth arbennig. Mae trwyddedau torri coed a gorchmynion diogelu coed yn werthfawr ond gellir eu diystyru gan ganiatâd cynllunio. O gofio ein bod yn datblygu polisi cynllunio newydd yng Nghymru, a allwn ystyried sicrhau diogelwch cyfreithiol cadarn ar gyfer coetiroedd hynafol yng Nghymru er mwyn datrys y sefyllfa? Gorchuddir llai na 2 y cant o Gymru gan goetir hynafol a gellid hwyluso’r dasg o’i ddiogelu o dan ganiatâd cynllunio gan fod safleoedd dros 2 hectar yn cael eu cofnodi yn rhestr Cyngor Cefn Gwlad Cymru. Mae’n bosiblrwydd a dylem ei ystyried.
Independent certification, which Carwyn supported at the Powys wood fair in September, is also important. We should consider, perhaps, whether all public bodies could be required to purchase timber from certified sources only. That might be permissible under public procurement rules and it should be considered. We should also investigate running a pilot project on the natural regeneration of broadleaf woodland in Wales, and I would like the Minister to address that in his closing speech. Also, if risk analysis on the effect of climatic change on woodland and forestry could be considered, that might place us in a better position to consider the way ahead.
Mae ardystiad annibynnol, a gefnogwyd gan Carwyn yn ffair goed Powys ym mis Medi, yn bwysig hefyd. Efallai y dylem ystyried a oes modd gorfodi cyrff cyhoeddus i brynu coed o ffynonellau ardystiedig yn unig. Efallai y gellir caniatáu hynny o dan reolau caffael cyhoeddus a dylid ystyried y posibilrwydd. Dylem hefyd ymchwilio i gynnal prosiect peilot ar adfywio coetir llydanddail yn naturiol yng Nghymru, a hoffwn i’r Gweinidog ymdrin â hynny yn ei araith derfynol. Yn ogystal, os gellid ystyried cynnal dadansoddiad risg ynglŷn ag effaith newid hinsawdd ar goetiroedd a choedwigoedd, gallai hynny ein rhoi mewn gwell sefyllfa i ystyried y ffordd ymlaen.
I welcome the additional £900,000 next year for the Forestry Commission in compensation for its decision to end large-scale ancient woodland disposal. I hope that that signals the end of such disposals and a new commitment by the Forest Enterprise to protect and restore the ancient woodland in its care. I hope that the Minister will address those issues in his closing speech.
Croesawaf y £900,000 ychwanegol mewn iawndal i’r Comisiwn Coedwigaeth y flwyddyn nesaf am ei benderfyniad i roi’r gorau i’r broses o waredu coetiroedd hynafol ar raddfa fawr. Gobeithiaf fod hyn yn arwydd o ddiwedd gwaredu o’r fath ac yn ymrwymiad newydd gan y Fenter Coedwigaeth i ddiogelu ac adfer y coetir hynafol sydd dan ei gofal. Gobeithiaf y bydd y Gweinidog yn ymdrin â’r materion hynny yn ei araith derfynol.
First, I declare an interest as a farmer and a member of an innovative woodland scheme called Pontbren.
Yn gyntaf, datganaf fuddiant fel ffermwr ac aelod o gynllun coetir dyfeisgar o’r enw Pontbren.
There is much to welcome in this document. This is the first debate to be held by the Assembly on woodland issues. We must decide on the quality and quantity of woodland needed in Wales and what weight should we give to economic, environmental and social issues. The Assembly owns about 40 per cent of Wales’s trees. Fourteen per cent of Wales is woodland and although that is almost three times the level of 80 years ago, the European average today is 32 per cent.
Mae llawer i’w groesawu yn y ddogfen hon. Dyma’r ddadl gyntaf i gael ei chynnal gan y Cynulliad ynglŷn â materion coetir. Rhaid inni benderfynu ar ansawdd a nifer y coetir sydd ei angen yng Nghymru a pha bwyslais y dylem ei roi ar faterion economaidd, amgylcheddol a chymdeithasol. Mae’r Cynulliad yn berchen ar tua 40 y cant o goed Cymru. Mae 14 y cant o Gymru yn goetir ac er bod hynny bron i deirgwaith cymaint ag 80 mlynedd yn ôl, y cyfartaledd Ewropeaidd heddiw yw 32 y cant.
I also welcome the £900,000 that has been used to stop the sale of woodland but I would like the Minister to tell me whether we currently have the full budget to run the Forestry Commission in Wales.
Croesawaf innau hefyd y £900,000 ychwanegol a ddefnyddiwyd i atal y broses o werthu coetir ond hoffwn i’r Gweinidog ddweud wrthyf a oes gennym y gyllideb lawn i redeg y Comisiwn Coedwigaeth yng Nghymru.
As I have had to shorten my speech on this strategy I will concentrate on two issues. One of the issues listed in the strategic objectives is renewable energy. We have a massive opportunity in Wales for people to work together and achieve many targets while bringing some income to farmers. One element that I wish to highlight in this debate is the practical way that we, as farmers and landowners, can be encouraged to grow more trees. That is a crucial part of whatever strategy we adopt. It is all very well having these strategic objectives, but it is how we deliver them that is crucial. I would like to see a biomass strategy which would suggest that local authorities must consider biomass when replacing boilers. That would encourage the growing of trees and bring additional income to people who own woodland. I commend the Powys Energy Agency, which has received money to consider the feasibility of placing the first biomass boiler in a school.
Gan imi orfod cwtogi fy araith ar y strategaeth hon canolbwyntiaf ar ddau fater. Un o’r materion a restrwyd yn yr amcanion strategol yw ynni adnewyddadwy. Mae gennym gyfle aruthrol yng Nghymru i bobl gydweithio a chyflawni llawer o dargedau tra’n dod â rhywfaint o incwm i ffermwyr. Un elfen yr hoffwn ei hamlygu yn y ddadl hon yw’r ffordd ymarferol y gellir ein hannog ni, fel ffermwyr a thirfeddiannwyr, i dyfu mwy o goed. Mae hynny’n rhan allweddol o ba bynnag strategaeth y byddwn yn ei mabwysiadu. Mae’n ddigon hawdd cael yr amcanion strategol hyn, ond y modd y byddwn yn eu cyflwyno sy’n allweddol. Hoffwn weld strategaeth bio-màs fyddai’n awgrymu bod yn rhaid i awdurdodau lleol ystyried bio-màs wrthosod boeleri newydd. Byddai hynny’n annog y broses o dyfu coed ac yn dod ag incwm ychwanegol i bobl sydd yn berchen ar goetir. Cymeradwyaf Asiantaeth Ynni Powys, sydd wedi derbyn arian er mwyn ystyried ymarferoldeb gosod y boeler bio-màs cyntaf mewn ysgol.
On the wider rural economy, we also have an opportunity here to establish policies that would assist the survival of many family farms. I congratulate the Forestry Commission and the Assembly on working together on the innovative Pontbren project. It is a co-operative venture whereby 10 neighbouring farms come together in an environment improvement scheme that also includes destocking. Critically, the goods produced on those farms promote good environmental practice and their sale ensures that those farms remain viable.
O ran yr economi wledig ehangach, mae gennym gyfle yma hefyd i sefydlu polisïau a fyddai’n cynorthwyo llawer o ffermydd teuluol i oroesi. Hoffwn longyfarch y Comisiwn Coedwigaeth a’r Cynulliad am gydweithio ar brosiect dyfeisgar Pontbren. Mae’n fenter gydweithredol lle mae 10 fferm gyfagos yn dod ynghyd mewn cynllun gwella’r amgylchedd sydd hefyd yn cynnwys dadstocio. Yn allweddol, bydd y nwyddau a gynhyrchir ar y ffermydd hynny yn hybu arfer amgylcheddol da ac mae eu gwerthiant yn sicrhau bod y ffermydd hynny yn parhau’n ddichonadwy.
Finally, I mention the role of woodlands in the reduction of carbon and floods, and end with a quotation from Professor Doug Godbold of the University of Wales, Bangor, who states:
Yn olaf, soniaf am rôl coetiroedd o ran lleihau carbon a llifogydd, a gorffennaf gyda dyfyniad gan yr Athro Doug Godbold o Brifysgol Cymru, Bangor, sydd yn datgan:
‘Throughout the world it has been shown that deforestation of catchments has led to increased run off and catastrophic downstream flooding.’
Not only does afforestation mean that water is released in a more gradual and controlled way, it also reduces carbon dioxide, the gas most responsible for the greenhouse effect. Ultimately, planting trees in Wales will help reduce global warming.
Golyga coedwigiad nid yn unig bod dŵr yn cael ei ryddhau mewn modd mwy graddol a rheoledig, mae hefyd yn lleihau carbon deuocsid, y nwy sydd yn bennaf gyfrifol am yr effaith tŷ gwydr. Yn y pen draw, bydd plannu coed yng Nghymru yn cynorthwyo i leihau cynhesu byd-eang.
I welcome the publication of this document. However, I was intrigued to hear the Minister’s comments. The mental image of our tree-hugging Minister for Rural Affairs, hurtling around the forests of Wales on a mountain bike, dressed only in a lycra outfit, will stay with me for some time.
Croesawaf gyhoeddi’r ddogfen hon. Fodd bynnag, yr oedd yn ddiddorol clywed sylwadau’r Gweinidog. Bydd y ddelwedd feddyliol sydd gennyf o’n Gweinidog dros Faterion Gwledig yn cofleidio coed ac yn mynd fel cath i gythraul o amgylch coedwigoedd Cymru ar feic mynydd, yn gwisgo dim mwy na gwisg lycra, yn aros gyda mi am beth amser.
I was happy to visit ancient woodland in Abergele last weekend. It is an expertly-managed facility that is much-used and greatly appreciated by the local community. Peter Law is right that public access must be a key feature of all woodland strategies. Walking and cycling are two activities that can improve public health in Wales as much as any programme of hospital building.
Yr oeddwn yn falch o gael ymweld â choetir hynafol yn Abergele y penwythnos diwethaf. Mae’n gyfleuster a reolir yn wych a gwneir llawer o ddefnydd ohono ac fe’i gwerthfawrogir yn fawr gan y gymuned leol. Mae Peter Law yn gywir i ddweud y dylai mynediad cyhoeddus fod yn nodwedd allweddol ym mhob strategaeth coetir. Mae cerdded a beicio yn ddau weithgaredd a all wella iechyd cyhoeddus yng Nghymru gymaint ag y gall unrhyw raglen adeiladu ysbytai.
Finally, green tourism activities in Wales have enormous scope for development. People who can afford around £800 for a mountain bike are able to patronise the up-market tourism that we are trying so hard to develop. The Minister’s statement is encouraging, and we need to see more of such work.
Yn olaf, mae cyfle aruthrol yng Nghymru ar gyfer datblygu gweithgareddau twristiaeth ‘gwyrdd’. Mae pobl sy’n gallu fforddio talu tua £800 am feic mynydd yn gallu rhoi nawdd i’r twristiaeth mwy chwaethus a dethol yr ydym yn ymdrechu mor galed i’w ddatblygu. Mae datganiad y Gweinidog yn galonogol, ac mae angen inni weld mwy o waith o’r fath.
Yr oeddwn yn ffodus o gael lansio’r strategaeth goetir ar ystâd breifat y Trallwn, ger Beulah yn y canolbarth dros yr haf. Fe’m trawyd gan frwdfrydedd anferth y gynulleidfa tuag at y strategaeth. Yr oedd croeso unfrydol i’r ffaith bod y Cynulliad—dan arweiniad cadarn y Gweinidog dros Faterion Gwledig—wedi mynd i’r afael â’r weithgaredd hollbwysig hon, ac wedi cydnabod o’r diwedd werth anferth coetiroedd Cymru i’n hamgylchfyd, ein cymunedau a’n heconomi.
I was fortunate to be able to launch the woodland strategy on the private Trallwn estate, near Beulah in mid-Wales during the summer. I was struck by the audience’s enormous enthusiasm for this strategy. There was unanimous support for the fact that the Assembly—under the strong leadership of the Minister for Rural Affairs—had got to grips with this important activity, and had finally acknowledged the huge importance of Welsh woodlands to our environment, our communities and our economy.
Mae William Graham yn iawn i dynnu sylw at gyfraniad coetiroedd preifat. Mae 60 y cant o’n coetiroedd un ai yn y sector preifat neu’r sector gwirfoddol. Dylem gydnabod y gwaith da a gyflawnwyd yn y sector preifat, a gweithio’n agos gyda pherchnogion coetiroedd preifat, i ddatblygu a chynyddu gwerth eu gwaith i’r economi a’r amgylchfyd.
William Graham is right to highlight the contribution of private woodland. Sixty per cent of Welsh woodland is either in the private or voluntary sector. We should acknowledge the achievements of the private sector, and work closely with private woodland owners to develop and increase the value of their work to the economy and environment.
Mae rheoli coetiroedd yn weithgaredd hirdymor: mae’n anodd meddwl am unrhyw weithgaredd arall lle’r ydych yn cynllunio 50 mlynedd i’r dyfodol, ac yn gorfod aros hanner canrif cyn disgwyl gweld canlyniad y gwaith a’r buddsoddiad a wneir heddiw. Am bob punt a warir heddiw, ni ellir disgwyl adennill gwerth y bunt honno am o leiaf 40 mlynedd.
Managing woodland is a long-term activity: it is hard to think of any another activity where you plan 50 years ahead, and have to wait half a century before you can expect to see today’s work and investment bear fruit. For every pound that is spent today, one cannot expect to recoup the value of that pound for at least 40 years.
Mae amodau arbennig yn perthyn i’r sector hwn, ac y mae’n briodol bod Llywodraeth y Cynulliad a’r partneriaid yn y Comisiwn Coedwigaeth, Awdurdod Datblygu Cymru ac eraill yn cydweithio i gynllunio datblygiad coetiroedd a’r diwydiannau cysylltiedig.
This sector is subject to special conditions, and it is right that the Assembly Government and its partners in the Forestry Commission, the Welsh Development Agency and others work together to plan the development of woodland and associated industries.
Gofynnaf i’r sawl a weithreda’r strategaeth fod yn hyblyg ac i fynd ati yn greadigol. Gofynnaf iddynt gadw prosesau a biwrocratiaeth i’r lleiaf posibl, gan fod yn barod i ymateb yn gadarnhaol i ofynion y sector, yn enwedig i bobl â chynlluniau da sydd angen cymorth i lwyddo.
I ask those who implement the strategy to be flexible and creative. I ask them to keep processes and bureaucracy to a minimum, and to be ready to react positively to the sector’s demands, especially to people with good schemes who need help to succeed.
Ceir cynllun da ym Mrechfa, yn fy etholaeth i, sef Pobl y Fforest lle mae grŵp o bobl leol yn gweithio’n ddiwyd i greu cynllun cymunedol i ddatblygu eu coedwig. Mae angen help arnynt i ddatblygu’r cynllun, i gael mynediad i grantiau ac ati. Hoffwn weld y Comisiwn Coedwigaeth ac eraill yn ymateb yn gadarnhaol i anghenion y cynllun hwn, ac i gynlluniau tebyg. Pan gaiff cynlluniau cymunedol eu creu, dylai cyrff cyhoeddus roi pob cefnogaeth iddynt, fel bod geiriau’r strategaeth ynglŷn â choetiroedd i bobl yn dod yn realiti ac nid geiriau ar bapur yn unig.
There is a good scheme in Brechfa, in my constituency, namely, Pobl y Fforest, where a group of local people are working diligently to create a community project to develop their forest. They need assistance to develop that scheme, to get access to grants and so on. I want to see the Forestry Commission and others responding positively to the needs of this and similar schemes. When community schemes are established, public bodies should support them fully, so that the words of the strategy concerning woodlands for people become a reality and not merely words on paper.
Mae’r strategaeth hon yn uchelgeisiol a mentrus. Os yw’n llwyddiannus, gallwn edrych yn ôl arni fel un o weithredoedd mwyaf arwyddocaol a phellgyrhaeddol dyddiau cynnar y Cynulliad. Cymeradwyaf y Gweinidog ar ei weledigaeth.
This strategy is ambitious and innovative. If it is successful, we can look back on it as one of the most significant and far-reaching acts of the Assembly’s early days. I commend the Minister on his vision.
Several issues have been raised. One issue that is at the forefront is renewable energy. I reiterate what I said in my opening speech on that. In addition, we are committed to moving ahead quickly on using renewable sources of energy in Wales as part of our international commitments and our duty under section 121 of the Government of Wales Act 1998.
yn Saesneg Codwyd sawl mater. Un mater blaenllaw yw ynni adnewyddadwy. Ailadroddaf yr hyn a ddywedais yn fy araith agoriadol am hynny. Yn ogystal, yr ydym yn ymrwymedig i symud ymlaen yn gyflym o ran defnyddio ffynonellau ynni adnewyddadwy yng Nghymru fel rhan o’n hymrwymiadau cenedlaethol a’n dyletswydd o dan adran 121 o Ddeddf Llywodraeth Cymru 1998.
It is estimated that Wales could generate around 125 megawatts of electricity from small roundwood, from forest and sawmill residues, and from short rotation coppice—although not entirely from short rotation coppice, as we do not have enough land to grow that alone. However, together, they can make an important contribution to renewable energy. The Forestry Commission is researching the contribution that forestry could make to reducing greenhouse gases.
yn Saesneg Amcangyfrifir y gallai Cymru gynhyrchu tua 125 megawatt o drydan o goed crwn bach, o waddodion coedwig a melinau llifio, ac o gylchdroi coedlannau byr—er nad yn gyfangwbl o gylchdroi coedlannau byr, gan nad oes digon o dir gennym i dyfu hwnnw ar ei ben ei hun. Fodd bynnag, gyda’i gilydd, gallant wneud cyfraniad pwysig i ynni adnewyddadwy. Mae’r Comisiwn Coedwigaeth yn ymchwilio i’r cyfraniad y gall coedwigaeth ei wneud i leihau nwyon tŷ gwydr.
I shall address Janice’s points first.
yn Saesneg Ymdriniaf â phwyntiau Janice i ddechrau.
Undoubtedly, she is right that now is the time that people should again appreciate that the woodlands of Wales belong to the people of Wales. They are a resource for the people of Wales to enjoy. I should perhaps declare an interest as a former director of the Bridgend Valleys Railway Company, in that regard.
yn Saesneg Heb amheuaeth, mae’n gywir mai dyma’r amser i bobl sylweddoli mai pobl Cymru sydd yn berchen ar goetiroedd Cymru. Maent yn adnodd i bobl Cymru eu mwynhau. Yn hynny o beth efallai y dylwn ddatgan buddiant fel cyn-gyfarwyddwr Cwmni Rheilffordd Cymoedd Pen-y-bont ar Ogwr.
Cododd Cynog sawl pwynt pwysig. Derbyniaf ei bwynt ynglŷn â’r fforwm. Byddaf yn gofyn i’r fforwm ystyried targedau ac i ba gyfeiriad yr ydym yn mynd gyda’r strategaeth hon. Fodd bynnag, ynglŷn â chonwydd, mae’n rhaid cofio hefyd fod llawer o gonwydd sydd yn hen ac wedi bod yno ers hanner canrif a mwy, yn enwedig yn ardal Dolgellau. Mae’r coed hyn—neu golfenni, fel dywedwn ym Morgannwg—yn rhan o etifeddiaeth a thraddodiad ein coedwigoedd yng Nghymru.
in Welsh Cynog raised several important points. I accept his point about the forum. I will ask the forum to consider targets and the direction in which we are going as regards this strategy. However, regarding conifers, it must also be remembered that many of these conifers are old and have been established for half a century or more, especially in the Dolgellau area. These trees—or colfenni as we call them in Glamorgan—are part of the heritage and tradition of our woodlands in Wales.
Ein nod yn y dyfodol yw tyfu cymysgedd o wahanol fathau o goed. Mae’n rhaid ystyried ein coed traddodiadol a naturiol yng Nghymru, ond mae’n rhaid inni gofio hefyd fod 95 y cant o elw coedwigaeth yn dod o gonwydd. Mae’n rhaid cofio bod coedwigoedd yn chwarae rhan fasnachol. Bydd yn rhaid wrth gonwydd yn y dyfodol i bobl allu gwneud elw ar goedwigoedd.
in Welsh Our future aim is to grow a mixture of different types of trees. We must consider our traditional and natural trees in Wales, but we must also remember that 95 per cent of the profit from forestry comes from conifers. It must be remembered that forestry has a commercial role. We must have conifers in the future so that people can make a profit from woodlands.
Yr wyf yn ddiolchgar i’r Gweinidog am roi cyfle arall imi siarad. Yr hyn a olygais oedd pan fo coed gelltydd sbriws ac yn y blaen yn cael eu clirdorri, a fyddai’n briodol i beidio ag ailblannu â’r math hwnnw o goed oni allech ddangos bod rheswm economaidd cryf dros wneud hynny? Wedyn gallech adael i aildyfiant naturiol greu coed llydanddail traddodiadol, yn lle’r fforestydd unffurf yr ydym wedi eu gweld ers blynyddoedd.
I am grateful to the Minister for giving me another opportunity to speak. What I meant was that when spruce hillsides and so on are clear-felled, would it be appropriate not to replant with that sort of wood, unless you could show that there is a strong economic reason for doing so? You could then leave the natural regrowth to create traditional broadleaf woods, instead of the uniform forests that we have seen for years.
Gofynnaf i’r fforwm ystyried hynny i weld a yw’n synhwyrol i’r dyfodol. Byddaf yn sicrhau y caiff Cynog wybod beth a wna’r fforwm ynglŷn â hynny.
in Welsh I will ask the forum to consider that to see whether it would be sensible in the future. I shall ensure that Cynog knows what the forum will do about that.
Yr oedd gan Cynog sawl syniad diddorol ynglŷn â throsglwyddo cymhorthdal o dda byw i gnydau ynni. Ystyriaf hynny. Mae sawl Aelod wedi sôn am y grantiau sydd ar gael i’r ucheldiroedd yn enwedig, a’r problemau cyfredol. Soniodd Mick am brosiect Pontbren a’i broblemau ynglŷn â sicrhau grantiau.
in Welsh Cynog had several interesting ideas about transferring subsidies from livestock to energy crops. I will consider that. Several Members have mentioned the grants available in upland areas especially, and the current problems. Mick mentioned the Pontbren project and its problems in securing grants.
William mentioned that he wants to see more broadleaf woodlands. They are increasing in Wales and now account for 30 per cent of the trees of Wales’s woodlands. The figure of 5 per cent is the amount of income derived from broadleaf trees. We seek to encourage greater recognition and planting of native species. We must remember that when the Forestry Commission was originally established, its remit was to produce straight trees for pitprops. That is why we have so many conifers. Historically, it is difficult to move away from that. We cannot do so quickly, we must ensure that we take the stakeholders in forestry with us.
yn Saesneg Soniodd William ei fod am weld mwy o goetiroedd llydanddail. Maent yn cynyddu yng Nghymru a bellach maent yn gyfrifol am 30 y cant o goed yng nghoetiroedd Cymru. Pump y cant yw cyfanswm yr incwm a ddaw o goed llydanddail. Yr ydym yn ceisio annog y broses o adnabod a phlannu mwy o rywogaethau brodorol. Pan sefydlwyd y Comisiwn Coedwigaeth yn wreiddiol, rhaid inni gofio mae ei gylch gorchwyl oedd cynhyrchu coed syth ar gyfer coed pwll. Dyna pam bod gennym gymaint o gonwydd. Yn hanesyddol, mae’n anodd symud oddi wrth hynny. Ni allwn wneud hynny’n gyflym, rhaid inni sicrhau ein bod yn cynnwys rhanddeiliaid coedwigaeth yn y broses.
John Griffiths raised a number of matters. First, he asked whether it would be possible for public procurement only to purchase certified timber. That comes under Best Value, and must be discussed with Edwina Hart and with local government. However, I encourage people to use certified Welsh wood in their building projects. John raised a number of other matters, in particular that of the natural regeneration of broadleaf woodlands. Yes, the days have gone when we seek to see row after row of conifers and clear felling. Those days will soon be behind us. Those who are familiar with the novel Wythnos yng Nghymru Fydd by Islwyn Ffowc Elis will know that the nightmare scenario for Wales depicted there has forest extending over hill after hill so that the whole country is covered by forest. Let us hope that people understand that forest is a friend to the people of Wales and part of the heritage of which we can be absolutely proud.
yn Saesneg Cododd John Griffiths nifer o faterion. Yn gyntaf, gofynnodd a fyddai’n bosibl i gaffael cyhoeddus prynu coed ardystiedig yn unig. Daw hynny o dan Gwerth Gorau, a rhaid trafod y mater gydag Edwina Hart a chyda llywodraeth leol. Fodd bynnag, anogaf bobl i ddefnyddio coed Cymru ardystiedig yn eu prosiectau adeiladu. Cododd John nifer o faterion eraill, yn arbennig y broses o adfer coetiroedd llydanddail yn naturiol. Ydyw, mae’r dyddiau wedi diflannu lle byddem am weld rhesi o gonwydd a chlir-dorri. Daw y dyddiau hynny i ben yn fuan. Byddai’r rhai ohonoch sy’n gyfarwydd â’r nofel Wythnos yng Nghymru Fydd gan Islwyn Ffowc Elis yn gwybod am y sefyllfa hunllefus a ddarlunnir ar gyfer Cymru yn cynnwys coedwigaeth yn ymestyn fryn ar ôl bryn fel bod y wlad i gyd wedi ei gorchuddio gan goedwigaeth. Gobeithiwn fod pobl yn deall mai cyfaill i bobl Cymru yw coedwigaeth a rhan o’r etifeddiaeth y gallwn fod yn gwbl falch ohoni.
Finally, Mick Bates asked whether we should seek to encourage renewable energy. Of course we should. Some months ago, I was privileged to visit a manufacturing plant that produces wooden pellets just beyond the boundary of my constituency in Janice Gregory’s constituency, Ogmore.
yn Saesneg Yn olaf, gofynnodd Mick Bates a ddylem geisio annog ynni adnewyddadwy. Wrth gwrs y dylem. Rai misoedd yn ôl, cefais y fraint o ymweld â ffatri gweithgynhyrchu sy’n cynhyrchu pelenni pren ychydig y tu draw i’m hetholaeth yn Ogwr, sef etholaeth Janice Gregory.
It is also my constituency.
Fy etholaeth i ydyw hefyd.
I do not remember you standing for election there, Alun, but if you want to make a point of it.
Nid wyf yn eich cofio yn sefyll etholiad yno, Alun, ond os ydych yn mynnu gwneud pwynt ynglŷn â’r peth.
Many of the pellets are made from sawdust. It is a tremendous example of recycling and how a material that was previously thrown away can be used to produce energy. These are exciting times for our woodlands. I commend the motion.
Gwneir llawer o’r pelenni o lwch lli. Mae’n enghraifft ragorol o ailgylchu a’r modd y gall deunydd a waredwyd yn flaenorol gael ei ddefnyddio i gynhyrchu ynni. Mae’r rhain yn amseroedd cyffrous i’n coetiroedd. Cymeradwyaf y cynnig.
Gwelliant 1 Glyn Davies t. 99
Amendment 1 Glyn Davies p. 99
DerbyniwydAdopted O blaidFor 48 YmatalAbstain 0 Yn erbynAgainst 0
Derbyniwyd y gwelliant.
Amendment carried.
Sut y pleidleisiodd yr AelodauHow Members voted
O blaidFor (48)
- Lorraine Barrett
- Mick Bates
- Peter Black
- Nick Bourne
- Eleanor Burnham
- Alun Cairns
- Cynog Dafis
- Andrew Davies
- David Davies
- Glyn Davies
- Janet Davies
- Jocelyn Davies
- Ron Davies
- Richard Edwards
- Sue Essex
- Delyth Evans
- Michael German
- Brian Gibbons
- William Graham
- Janice Gregory
- John Griffiths
- Alison Halford
- Brian Hancock
- Edwina Hart
- Jane Hutt
- Ann Jones
- Carwyn Jones
- Gareth Jones
- Ieuan Wyn Jones
- Peter Law
- Huw Lewis
- David Lloyd
- Val Lloyd
- David Melding
- Tom Middlehurst
- Jonathan Morgan
- Lynne Neagle
- Alun Pugh
- Jenny Randerson
- Rod Richards
- Peter Rogers
- Janet Ryder
- Karen Sinclair
- Gwenda Thomas
- Owen John Thomas
- Rhodri Glyn Thomas
- Dafydd Wigley
- Phil Williams
Cynnig wedi’i ddiwygio Carwyn Jones t. 100
Amended motion Carwyn Jones p. 100
DerbyniwydAdopted O blaidFor 48 YmatalAbstain 0 Yn erbynAgainst 0
Derbyniwyd y cynnig wedi’i ddiwygio.
Amended motion carried.
Sut y pleidleisiodd yr AelodauHow Members voted
O blaidFor (48)
- Lorraine Barrett
- Mick Bates
- Peter Black
- Nick Bourne
- Eleanor Burnham
- Alun Cairns
- Cynog Dafis
- Andrew Davies
- David Davies
- Glyn Davies
- Janet Davies
- Jocelyn Davies
- Ron Davies
- Richard Edwards
- Sue Essex
- Delyth Evans
- Michael German
- Brian Gibbons
- William Graham
- Janice Gregory
- John Griffiths
- Alison Halford
- Brian Hancock
- Edwina Hart
- Jane Hutt
- Ann Jones
- Carwyn Jones
- Gareth Jones
- Ieuan Wyn Jones
- Peter Law
- Huw Lewis
- David Lloyd
- Val Lloyd
- David Melding
- Tom Middlehurst
- Jonathan Morgan
- Lynne Neagle
- Alun Pugh
- Jenny Randerson
- Rod Richards
- Peter Rogers
- Janet Ryder
- Karen Sinclair
- Gwenda Thomas
- Owen John Thomas
- Rhodri Glyn Thomas
- Dafydd Wigley
- Phil Williams
Dadl Fer
Short Debate
Bywyd yn y Cylch Arwerthu: Pam mae Arwerthiannau Da Byw yn Bwysig
Life in the Ring: Why Livestock Auctions Matter
I declare an interest. I have agreed to take a contribution from the chair of the Agriculture and Rural Development Committee, Glyn Davies, and one-minute contributions from Elin and Mick.
Datganaf ddiddordeb. Yr wyf wedi cytuno i dderbyn cyfraniad gan gadeirydd y Pwyllgor Amaethyddiaeth a Datblygu Gwledig, Glyn Davies, a chyfraniadau un munud gan Elin a Mick.
I welcome all those who have travelled here from across Wales today to support the auctions. I appreciate that. I thank Glyn Owens of the Welsh Livestock Auctioneers’ Association for organising the petition of letters from farmers across Wales. About 6,000 letters have been collected in under a week, which shows the tremendous support for Welsh auctioneers.
Croesawaf bawb sydd wedi teithio yma heddiw o bob rhan o Gymru i gefnogi’r arwerthiannau. Gwerthfawrogaf hynny. Diolchaf i Glyn Owens o Gymdeithas Arwerthwyr Da Byw Cymru am drefnu’r ddeiseb llythyrau gan ffermwyr ledled Cymru. Casglwyd tua 6,000 o lythyrau mewn llai nag wythnos, sy’n dangos y gefnogaeth aruthrol i arwerthwyr Cymru.
Let me make it clear that the message of this debate is the importance of auctions. I am not calling for auctions to be opened immediately. This would only invite the Minister to call me ‘thick-head’ again. I hope that my speech will help the Minister understand how important the livestock auctions are for Welsh agriculture. He clearly does not understand their importance, because he said in Plenary two weeks ago:
Gadewch imi ei gwneud yn glir mai neges y ddadl hon yw pwysigrwydd arwerthiannau. Nid wyf yn galw am agor arwerthiannau ar unwaith. Byddai hynny yn wahoddiad i’r Gweinidog fy ngalw yn ‘ynfytyn’ unwaith eto. Gobeithiaf y bydd fy araith yn helpu’r Gweinidog i ddeall pa mor bwysig yw arwerthiannau da byw i amaethyddiaeth Cymru. Mae’n amlwg nad yw’n deall eu pwysigrwydd, gan iddo ddweud mewn Cyfarfod Llawn bythefnos yn ôl:
‘Few of the farmers that I meet say that livestock auctions are the fairest system of selling livestock. I have met the livestock auctioneers. My view has always been that, as things stand, it is difficult for farmers to obtain a fair price through auction.’
‘Nid oes llawer o’r ffermwyr yr wyf yn cwrdd â hwy yn dweud mai arwerthiannau da byw yw’r system decaf o werthu da byw. Yr wyf wedi cwrdd ag arwerthwyr da byw. Fy marn erioed fu ei bod yn anodd i ffermwyr gael pris teg am dda byw drwy arwerthiannau, fel y saif pethau ar hyn o bryd.’
The Minister’s words have shocked and baffled the industry. At yesterday’s Committee meeting, he tried to dig his way out of this hole. However, he still managed to say that there are massive weaknesses in the present system. He should have drawn attention to the massive strengths of the present system. His choice of emphasis only reinforces the negative message that he is sending out about auctions.
Mae geiriau’r Gweinidog wedi dychryn a drysu’r diwydiant. Yng nghyfarfod y Pwyllgor ddoe, ceisiodd gloddio ei ffordd allan o’r twll hwn. Fodd bynnag, llwyddodd i ddweud bod gwendidau mawr yn y system bresennol. Dylai fod wedi tynnu sylw at gryfderau mawr y system bresennol. Y cyfan a wna ei ddewis o bwyslais yw atgyfnerthu’r neges negyddol y mae’n ei chyfleu ynglŷn ag arwerthiannau.
The level of concern in the industry about his comments is plain to see today. Minister, representatives of the Welsh Livestock Auctioneers’ Association and the presidents of the two unions are here today to tell you that you are wrong. You should listen carefully to what they have to say. You have clearly misjudged the mood of the industry.
Mae’r pryder am ei sylwadau o fewn y diwydiant yn amlwg heddiw. Weinidog, mae cynrychiolwyr Cymdeithas Arwerthwyr Da Byw Cymru a llywyddion y ddau undeb yma heddiw i ddweud wrthych eich bod yn anghywir. Dylech wrando’n astud ar yr hyn sydd ganddynt i’w ddweud. Yr ydych yn amlwg wedi camddehongli teimladau y diwydiant.
I have been lucky in securing today’s debate. The Minister has frustrated all my attempts to help my constituents, who have had to face serious problems. Letters have gone unanswered for months and the eventual replies are often meaningless. Recently, I asked the Minister to justify why auctioneers who were operating collection centres were being charged for veterinary inspection, while the same rules were not applied to abattoirs. When I finally received a reply, he said that the rules were necessary on biosecurity grounds. However, this letter was meaningless because the veterinary charges had been abolished two weeks previously. There are other examples of victimising the auctions. Why must all the lambs that go to the collection centres operated by the auctions be tagged, when the same rule does not apply to the abattoirs? Why has the Minister not done anything to defend the Welshpool market against the Department of the Environment, Food and Rural Affairs’s vicious slur that it was a source of foot and mouth disease? The Minister should show us evidence for that claim. I suspect that he does not release that information because he does not have it.
Bûm yn ffodus i sicrhau’r ddadl hon heddiw. Mae’r Gweinidog wedi rhwystro pob ymgais ar fy rhan i helpu fy etholwyr, sydd wedi gorfod wynebu problemau dybryd. Mae llythyrau heb eu hateb ers misoedd ac mae’r atebion yn y pen draw yn aml yn ddi-werth. Yn ddiweddar, gofynnais i’r Gweinidog gyfiawnhau pam bod arwerthwyr oedd yn gweithredu canolfannau casglu yn gorfod talu am archwiliad milfeddygol, ac nad oedd yr un rheolau yn berthnasol i ladd-dai. Pan gefais ateb yn y pen-draw, dywedodd fod y rheolau’n angenrheidiol ar sail bioddiogelwch. Fodd bynnag, yr oedd y llythyr hwn yn ddi-werth gan i’r taliadau milfeddygol gael eu diddymu bythefnos ynghynt. Ceir enghreifftiau eraill o dargedu’r arwerthiannau. Pam bod angen tagio pob oen sy’n mynd drwy’r canolfannau casglu a weithredir gan yr arwerthiannau, ond nad yw’r rheol honno yn berthnasol i ladd-dai? Pam nad yw’r Gweinidog wedi gwneud unrhyw beth i amddiffyn marchnad y Trallwng yn erbyn sarhad milain Adran yr Amgylchedd, Bwyd a Materion Gwledig ei bod yn ffynhonnell clwy’r traed a’r genau? Dylai’r Gweinidog ddangos tystiolaeth inni o hynny. Tybiaf nad yw’n rhyddhau’r wybodaeth honno gan nad yw ganddo.
Minister, it is good to be able to debate this with you in the Chamber where there are no officials whispering duff information into your ears. It is like being at Bridgend rugby club, but not sipping a pint of Brains as you were on your recent television appearance. This time you are on the Brewery Field, the ball is in your hands and you are under the posts, the wind and rain are against you and you have no strength to kick the ball into touch. I am leading the opposition, charging downfield towards you. Give me the ball or face the consequences. But remember I have a huge pack behind me and you are on your own.
Weinidog, mae’n dda gallu cynnal dadl ar hyn gyda chi yn y Siambr, lle nad oes swyddogion yn sibrwd gwybodaeth ffug yn eich clustiau. Mae fel bod yng nghlwb rygbi Pen-y-bont ar Ogwr, ond nid yn sipian peint o Brains fel yr oeddech ar eich ymddangosiad diweddar ar y teledu. Y tro hwn, yr ydych ar Gae’r Bragdy, mae’r bêl yn eich dwylo ac yr ydych o dan y pyst. Mae’r gwynt a’r glaw yn eich erbyn ac nid oes gennych nerth i gicio’r bêl i’r ystlys. Yr wyf yn arwain y gwrthwynebwyr, yn hyrddio i lawr y cae tuag atoch. Rhowch y bêl i mi neu wynebwch y canlyniadau. Ond cofiwch fod gennyf dîm anferth y tu ôl i mi ac yr ydych chi ar eich pen eich hun.
Before the foot and mouth disease outbreak, the auction system was responsible for the sale of up to 80 per cent of Welsh livestock. They have proven expertise in the meat trade that is second to none. They have records of animal movements that are regularly used by Assembly divisional offices to cross-reference movements. They have an extensive knowledge of farmers, their land and location. More importantly, they speak the farmers’ language. Any sensible Minister would have ensured that such expertise and information was used during the foot and mouth disease crisis; but you do not understand that. Any sensible Minister would have ensured that that expertise was represented in various task forces and consultation groups; but you do not understand that. Any sensible Minister would have praised the hard work undertaken by the auctions for the industry during the crisis; but you do not understand that.
Cyn argyfwng clwy’r traed a’r genau, yr oedd y system arwerthiannau yn gyfrifol am werthu hyd at 80 y cant o dda byw Cymru. Mae ganddynt arbenigedd o’r radd flaenaf yn y fasnach gig. Mae ganddynt gofnodion o symudiadau anifeiliaid a gaiff eu defnyddio’n rheolaidd gan swyddfeydd is-adrannau’r Cynulliad i groesgyfeirio symudiadau anifeiliaid. Mae ganddynt wybodaeth helaeth am ffermwyr, eu tir a’u lleoliad. Yn bwysicach na hynny, maent yn siarad iaith y ffermwr. Byddai unrhyw Weinidog synhwyrol wedi sicrhau y byddai arbenigedd a gwybodaeth o’r fath yn cael eu defnyddio yn ystod argyfwng clwy’r traed a’r genau; ond ni ddeallwch hynny. Byddai unrhyw Weinidog synhwyrol wedi sicrhau y câi’r arbenigedd hwnnw ei gynrychioli mewn tasgluoedd a grwpiau ymgynghori amrywiol; ond ni ddeallwch hynny. Byddai unrhyw Weinidog synhwyrol wedi canmol y gwaith caled a wnaethpwyd gan yr arwerthiannau ar ran y diwydiant yn ystod yr argyfwng; ond ni ddeallwch hynny.
Unlike the Minister, I do understand and I am here to say ‘thank you’ to the auctioneers for their help and for the support that they gave farmers and their families during this terrible crisis. Perhaps, the Minister will tell us how he thinks we will establish market values in the absence of the auction system. After all, most direct-to-abattoir sales are based on prices first established in the market place. Without the livestock markets, the abattoirs have a monopoly on fixed prices. That has never been more evident than during the last nine months when auctions have not been in operation.
Yn wahanol i’r Gweinidog, yr wyf fi yn deall ac yr wyf yma i ddiolch i’r arwerthwyr am eu help ac am y cymorth a roddasant i ffermwyr a’u teuluoedd yn ystod yr argyfwng ofnadwy hwn. Efallai y dywed y Gweinidog wrthym sut y mae’n credu y byddwn yn sefydlu gwerthoedd marchnad yn absenoldeb y system arwerthiannau. Wedi’r cyfan, mae’r rhan fwyaf o werthiannau uniongyrchol i’r lladd-dy yn seiliedig ar brisiau a bennwyd yn gyntaf yn y farchnad. Heb y marchnadoedd da byw, mae gan ladd-dai fonopoli ar brisiau sefydlog. Ni fu hyn erioed mor amlwg nag yn ystod y naw mis diwethaf pan na fu arwerthiannau yn gweithredu.
In every walk of life, competition is healthy. Without competition, standards drop. The operation of auctions is transparent. If the Minister allows the auctions to disappear, standards of quality will definitely drop because there will be fewer incentives to produce the best because the rewards will not be there. That will result in pushing livestock prices down even further. Therefore, the Minister is undermining his own policy of premium value added produce, which he is so keen to promote. A good Minister would recognise the fundamental social and cultural significance of the auctions to Welsh agriculture; but you do not understand that either.
Ym mhob agwedd ar fywyd, mae cystadleuaeth yn iach. Heb gystadleuaeth, mae safonau’n gostwng. Mae’r ffordd y gweithredir arwerthiannau yn dryloyw. Pe bai’r Gweinidog yn caniatáu i arwerthiannau ddiflannu, bydd safonau ansawdd yn sicr o ostwng gan y bydd llai o ysgogiad i gynhyrchu’r gorau gan na fydd y gwobrau ar gael. Canlyniad hynny fydd gwthio prisiau da byw yn is. Felly, mae’r Gweinidog yn tanseilio ei bolisi ei hun o gynnyrch gwerth ychwanegol o’r radd flaenaf, y mae mor awyddus i’w hyrwyddo. Byddai Gweinidog da yn cydnabod arwyddocâd cymdeithasol a diwylliannol sylfaenol yr arwerthiannau i amaethyddiaeth Cymru; ond ni ddeallwch hynny ychwaith.
Hopefully, the Minister will read some of the letters that have been delivered here today—there are over 7,000. Many more were being collected from auctioneers’ offices this morning. One letter from the Vale of Clwyd MIND association stood out. It states:
Y gobaith yw y bydd y Gweinidog yn darllen rhai o’r llythyrau a anfonwyd yma heddiw––mae dros 7,000 ohonynt. Yr oedd llawer mwy yn cael eu casglu o swyddfeydd arwerthwyr y bore yma. Yr oedd un llythyr o gymdeithas MIND Dyffryn Clwyd yn sefyll allan. Mae’n nodi:
‘The livestock auctions have a vital role to play in promoting good health in the farming community and preventing stress developing into more serious mental health problems.’
You will remember that the rural recovery fund sets money aside particularly for mid Wales and Anglesey to support stress problems resulting from the foot and mouth disease crisis. Any good Minister would want to do all that he could to ensure that he protected the valuable role of these auctions. You do not understand that either.
Fe gofiwch fod y gronfa adfer gwledig yn rhoi arian o’r neilltu yn benodol ar gyfer Canolbarth Cymru ac Ynys Môn i gynorthwyo gyda phroblemau straen sy’n deillio o argyfwng clwy’r traed a’r genau. Byddai unrhyw Weinidog da yn dymuno gwneud popeth o fewn ei allu i sicrhau ei fod yn amddiffyn rôl bwysig yr arwerthiannau hyn. Ni ddeallwch hynny ychwaith.
Let us hear the Minister’s words one more time:
Beth am glywed geiriau’r Gweinidog unwaith eto:
‘Few of the farmers that I meet say that livestock auctions are the fairest system of selling livestock.’
‘Nid oes llawer o’r ffermwyr yr wyf yn cwrdd â hwy yn dweud mai arwerthiannau da byw yw’r system decaf o werthu da byw.’
Your comments are ill-informed, misguided and plain wrong. I hope that you will speak to the farmers and auctioneers present today and listen to their views. I hope that you will also pay attention to the 7,000 letters that have already been received in support of the auction system.
Mae eich sylwadau yn deillio o gam-wybodaeth, maent yn gamarweiniol ac yn gwbl anghywir. Gobeithiaf y byddwch yn siarad â’r ffermwyr a’r arwerthwyr sydd yma heddiw ac yn gwrando ar eu barn. Gobeithiaf hefyd y byddwch yn talu sylw i’r 7,000 o lythyrau a dderbyniwyd eisoes i gefnogi’r system arwerthiannau.
Unlike the Minister, let us all give thanks for the livestock auctions.
Yn wahanol i’r Gweinidog, gadewch i bawb ohonom ddiolch am y system arwerthiannau.
In politics, personalities are important in defining the course of events. Today, we see two big men defining the future of livestock markets in Wales. In the red corner stands the Minister for Rural Affairs, Carwyn Jones, who has built a substantial reputation over the last 18 months. However, it seems from his words, which have already been quoted twice in today’s debate, that he is not wholly committed to our traditional livestock markets. In the blue corner stands Peter Rogers, a club-swinging, bone crusher of a man who has rampaged out of his Ynys Môn stronghold to detonate verbal cluster bombs on his opponents and strike terror in the hearts of those who have fallen within his gun sights. He has sallied forth from his Ynys Môn lair in defence of our traditional livestock markets.
Mewn gwleidyddiaeth, mae personoliaethau yn bwysig wrth lywio digwyddiadau. Heddiw, gwelwn ddau ddyn mawr yn diffinio dyfodol marchnadoedd da byw yng Nghymru. Yn y gornel goch, saif y Gweinidog dros Faterion Gwledig, Carwyn Jones, sydd wedi creu cryn enw iddo’i hun dros y 18 mis diwethaf. Fodd bynnag, ymddengys o’i eiriau, a ddyfynnwyd ddwywaith eisoes yn y ddadl heddiw, nad yw’n gwbl ymrwymedig i’n marchnadoedd da byw traddodiadol. Yn y gornel las, saif Peter Rogers, gŵr barbaraidd o oes y cerrig sydd wedi rhuthro allan o’i gaer ar Ynys Môn i ymosod ar ei wrthwynebwyr gyda ffrwydron clwstwr geiriol a chreu braw yng nghalonnau’r rhai sydd wedi dod o fewn golwg i’w ynau. Mentrodd allan o’i ogof yn Ynys Môn i amddiffyn ein marchnadoedd da byw traddodiadol.
I read last week how the Roman army broke British resistance when cavalry, despatched from its Wroxeter fortress, took the island of Anglesey. The Roman general of Britain at the time, Gnaeus Julius Agricola, admitted that his soldiers had never faced such fierce opponents. He was fortunate that Peter Rogers had not arrived on the scene or the whole island story of Britain would have been different.
Darllenais yr wythnos diwethaf ynglŷn â sut y torrodd byddin y Rhufeiniaid wrthsafiad y Prydeinwyr, pan oresgynwyd Ynys Môn gan farchoglu a anfonwyd o’i gaer yn Wroxeter. Cyfaddefodd Gnaeus Julius Agricola, cadfridog Rhufeinig Prydain ar y pryd, nad oedd ei filwyr erioed wedi wynebu gwrthwynebwyr mor ffyrnig. Yr oedd yn ffodus na chyrhaeddodd Peter Rogers y maes neu byddai hanes ynysoedd Prydain gyfan wedi bod yn wahanol.
Carwyn Jones’s comments on livestock markets are wrong. He does not feel rural Wales’s heartbeat. His words are a monumental mistake. For competition, community and other reasons, our livestock markets are crucial and must be defended. On this issue, I stand in the blue corner, called to arms and four-square behind Peter Rogers, the beast of Bodrida, because he is right and the Minister is wrong.
Mae sylwadau Carwyn Jones ar farchnadoedd da byw yn anghywir. Nid yw’n teimlo curiad calon Cymru wledig. Mae ei eiriau yn gamgymeriad anferthol. Oherwydd cystadleuaeth, cymuned a rhesymau eraill, mae ein marchnadoedd da byw yn hanfodol a rhaid eu hamddiffyn. Ar y mater hwn, safaf yn y gornel las, wedi derbyn yr alwad ac yn gadarn y tu ôl i Peter Rogers, Bwystfil Bodrida, am ei fod ef yn iawn a’r Gweinidog yn anghywir.
There may be two big men in this debate, but this little woman wants to have her minute as well.
yn Saesneg Efallai fod dau ddyn mawr yn y ddadl hon, ond mae’r ferch fach hon am gael ei munud hi hefyd.
Fel Peter, cefais innau sioc o glywed barn y Gweinidog ar farchnadoedd da byw yn y Siambr bythefnos yn ôl. Yr oedd diffyg ymrwymiad ar ei ran i gydnabod pwysigrwydd martau. Maent yn bwysig yn economaidd i ffermwyr ac i drefi marchnad. Mae iddynt hefyd bwysigrwydd cymdeithasol mewn cymunedau gwledig. Yr oedd diffyg dealltwriaeth ar ran y Gweinidog o rôl y mart yn y farchnad anifeiliaid stôr, sy’n rhan annatod o batrwm amaethu Cymru. Gobeithiaf y gall ddweud rhywbeth am hynny.
in Welsh Like Peter, I was shocked to hear the Minister’s views on livestock markets in the Chamber two weeks ago. There was a reluctance on his behalf to acknowledge the importance of marts. They are economically important to farmers and to market towns. They are also of social importance in rural communities. There was a lack of understanding on the Minister’s part as to the role of the mart in the store animal market, which is a crucial part of the pattern of farming in Wales. I hope that he can comment on that.
Hoffwn i’r Gweinidog ein sicrhau heddiw o’i gefnogaeth i’r system farchnadoedd da byw. Hoffwn iddo sefydlu cronfa, fel y dywedais yn ystod y ddadl ar y gyllideb, i adfywio a moderneiddio’r martau wedi clwy’r traed a’r genau. Y peth pwysicaf y prynhawn yma yw ei fod yn ein sicrhau y caiff y martau eu hail-agor cyn gynted ag sy’n bosibl.
in Welsh I would like the Minister to assure us today of his support for the livestock market system. I would like him to establish a fund, as I said during the debate on the budget, to revive and modernise the marts following the foot and mouth disease outbreak. The most important thing this afternoon is that he assures us that the marts will be re-opened as soon as possible.
I declare an interest as a farmer who trades regularly with livestock markets. A referee is needed in this ‘life in the ring’ debate between the blue and red corners. We will not further the debate by increasing political rhetoric, which does not deliver any results. As a supporter of livestock markets, I am pleased that Peter has chosen this topic for his short debate. I want to discuss three critical issues that we must all face. First, the livestock market is a crucial part of trading, whether it is prime stock or store stock. According to the latest recorded figures, 3,643,000 animals were traded in livestock markets in 1998. Secondly, as has already been said, the markets are an important part of the social fabric in rural areas. Peter mentioned the letter sent to Carwyn by a local Mind association. Because of my experience, I can reinforce the point of view stated in that letter. The lack of communication and farmers’ inability to meet during the foot and mouth disease crisis has led to tremendous anxiety and increased frustration. Finally, in all trading, we need choice. The livestock market provides that choice, as does the dead-weight system. We cannot abolish one or the other. We need both.
Datganaf fuddiant fel ffermwr sy’n masnachu’n rheolaidd gyda marchnadoedd da byw. Mae angen dyfarnwr ar y ddadl ‘bywyd yn y cylch arwerthu’ hon rhwng y corneli glas a choch. Ni wthiwn y ddadl ymhellach drwy gynyddu’r rhethreg wleidyddol, nad yw’n arwain at ganlyniadau. Fel cefnogwr marchnadoedd da byw, yr wyf yn falch bod Peter wedi dewis y pwnc hwn ar gyfer ei ddadl fer. Hoffwn drafod tri mater pwysig y mae angen inni i gyd eu hwynebu. Yn gyntaf, mae’r farchnad da byw yn rhan hanfodol o fasnach, pa un a yw hynny ar gyfer prif stoc neu stoc cadw. Yn ôl y ffigurau diweddaraf a gofnodwyd, masnachwyd 3,643,000 o anifeiliaid mewn marchnadoedd da byw yn 1998. Yn ail, fel y dywedwyd eisoes, mae’r marchnadoedd yn rhan bwysig o wead cymdeithasol mewn ardaloedd gwledig. Soniodd Peter am y llythyr a anfonwyd at Carwyn gan gymdeithas Mind leol. Oherwydd fy mhrofiad, gallaf atgyfnerthu’r farn yn y llythyr hwnnw. Mae’r diffyg cyfathrebu ac anallu ffermwyr gwrdd yn ystod argyfwng clwy’r traed a’r genau wedi arwain at bryder dybryd a rhwystredigaeth gynyddol. Yn olaf, mewn unrhyw fasnach mae angen dewis arnom. Mae’r farchnad da byw yn cynnig y dewis hwnnw, fel y mae’r system pwysau marw. Ni allwn ddiddymu y naill na’r llall. Mae angen y ddwy arnom.
On a positive note, in a reply to Lord Geraint yesterday, Lord Whitty stated that he hopes that the livestock markets will reopen in the new year. Let the referee announce that, and the fight is over.
Ar nodyn cadarnhaol, mewn ymateb i Arglwydd Geraint ddoe, dywedodd Arglwydd Whitty ei fod yn gobeithio y bydd y marchnadoedd da byw yn ail agor yn y flwyddyn newydd. Gadewch i’r dyfarnwr gyhoeddi hynny ac yna bydd y frwydr ar ben.
Point of order. A few minutes ago, Glyn Davies used the term ‘cluster bombs’. The use of such an expression, given the ongoing war in Afghanistan, is a monumental lack of judgment and is also contrary to Standing Orders—
Pwynt o drefn. Ychydig funudau yn ôl defnyddiodd Glyn Davies y term ‘ffrwydron clwstwr’. Mae defnyddio ymadrodd o’r fath, o gofio’r rhyfel yn Afghanistan, yn arwydd aruthrol o ddiffyg crebwyll ac mae hefyd yn groes i Reolau Sefydlog––
John Marek The Deputy Presiding Officer spoken in English p. 107
John Marek Y Dirprwy Lywydd siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 107
Order. I will not tolerate that. I am grateful to Alun for trying to assist me in my duties. However, I have not heard anything that was out of order in this debate so far, and I hope that I will not hear anything in the 15 minutes that remain.
Trefn. Ni oddefaf hynny. Yr wyf yn ddiolchgar i Alun am geisio fy nghynorthwyo yn fy nyletswyddau. Fodd bynnag, ni chlywais unrhyw beth a oedd allan o drefn yn y ddadl hon hyd yn hyn, a gobeithiaf na chlywaf unrhyw beth yn y 15 munud sy’n weddill.
Carwyn Jones The Minister for Rural Affairs spoken in English p. 107
Carwyn Jones Y Gweinidog dros Faterion Gwledig siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 107
I am grateful to Peter for choosing this topic as the subject of his short debate. During my speech, I will debunk a few myths, ask questions on how the system can be improved and issue a challenge and an invitation to the auctioneers to work with us to improve the future of Welsh farming.
Yr wyf yn ddiolchgar i Peter am ddewis y pwnc hwn fel testun ei ddadl fer. Yn ystod fy araith, hoffwn chwalu ychydig o fythau, gofyn cwestiynau ar sut y gellir gwella’r system a chynnig her a gwahoddiad i’r arwerthwyr weithio gyda ni i wella dyfodol ffermio yng Nghymru.
Nobody is suggesting that the marts should be closed permanently. People who have been told that have been misled for political reasons. It is scaremongering by a party that wants to gain votes and scare people. Look at the words that I used two weeks ago. I criticised how the present system operates and explained how it should be improved. I did not say that the system should be abolished.
Nid oes neb yn awgrymu y dylai’r marchnadoedd gael eu cau’n barhaol. Mae pobl sydd wedi clywed hynny wedi cael eu camarwain am resymau gwleidyddol. Codi bwganod yw hyn gan blaid sydd am ennill pleidleisiau a dychryn pobl. Edrychwch ar y geiriau a ddefnyddiais bythefnos yn ôl. Yr oeddwn yn feirniadol o’r ffordd y mae’r system bresennol yn gweithredu ac eglurais sut y dylid ei gwella. Ni ddywedais y dylai’r system gael ei diddymu.
Let me outline the support that we give to the auctions. First, the Welsh Livestock Auctioneers’ Association was offered a marketing development grant last February to set up a quality price reporting system. Is that evidence of a lack of support? Secondly, the Welsh Development Agency is considering pilot schemes on information technology updates for auctioneers in south west Wales. Again, is that evidence of a lack of support? You should do your homework first.
Gadewch i mi amlinellu’r cymorth a roddwn i arwerthiannau. Yn gyntaf, cynigiwyd grant datblygu marchnata i Cymdeithas Arwerthwyr Da Byw Cymru fis Chwefror diwethaf i sefydlu system adrodd prisiau ansoddol. Ai tystiolaeth o ddiffyg cefnogaeth yw hynny? Yn ail, mae Awdurdod Datblygu Cymru yn ystyried cynlluniau peilot ar ddiweddaru technoleg gwybodaeth i arwerthwyr yn ne orllewin Cymru. Eto, ai tystiolaeth o ddiffyg cefnogaeth yw hynny? Dylech wneud eich gwaith cartref yn gyntaf.
Everyone knows that the Assembly does not have the power to reopen the marts. We all agree that we want that power. However, we do not have it yet. We cannot vote on that. There is no vote at the end of today’s debate, as Members know. It is too early to open the marts. It is too risky, because of foot and mouth disease. We have only just been given the opportunity to export sheep again. We do not want to destroy the gate that has been opened for us.
Gŵyr pawb nad oes gan y Cynulliad y grym i ailagor y marchnadoedd. Cytunwn oll ein bod yn dymuno cael y grym hwnnw. Fodd bynnag, nid yw gennym ar hyn o bryd. Ni allwn bleidleisio ar hynny. Nid oes pleidlais ar ddiwedd y ddadl heddiw, fel y gŵyr yr Aelodau. Mae’n rhy fuan i agor y marchnadoedd. Mae’n rhy beryglus, oherwydd clwy’r traed a’r genau. Dim ond newydd gael y cyfle i allforio defaid unwaith eto yr ydym. Nid ydym am ddinistrio’r glwyd sydd wedi cael ei hagor inni.
We know that marts have a role—
Gwyddom fod gan farchnadoedd rôl––
Elin Jones a gododd––
Elin Jones rose—
I will not give way yet, Elin. People may have sent letters to me, but what questions were they asked? What stirred them up? Let me assure people that I am aware of the social aspects of the mart. Many people tell me that the company is one of the most enjoyable aspects of the mart. I know of their social importance. However, it is not enough for a mart to be a social gathering. I know how important the store animal and ram sales are. Nobody is suggesting that there is a better way of selling these animals.
Nid ildiaf eto, Elin. Efallai fod pobl wedi anfon llythyrau ataf, ond pa gwestiynau a ofynnwyd iddynt? Beth â’u hysgogodd? Gadewch i mi sicrhau pobl fy mod yn ymwybodol o agweddau cymdeithasol marchnadoedd. Dywed llawer wrthyf mai’r gwmnïaeth yw un o nodweddion mwyaf pleserus marchnadoedd. Gwn am eu pwysigrwydd cymdeithasol. Fodd bynnag, nid yw’n ddigon i farchnad fod yn fan cyfarfod cymdeithasol. Gwn pa mor bwysig yw’r gwerthiannau anifeiliaid cadw a hyrddod. Nid oes neb yn awgrymu bod ffordd well o werthu’r anifeiliaid hyn.
However, farmers are expressing concern to me. They say that they are not sure whether the system is working properly. That is what I said last week. The farmers will not say it in public, but they say it to me. We must therefore have a proper debate. How do we get a fair price for farming? This has been a passion of mine. I will not waiver from it and I will not try to run away from getting a fair price for farmers. Peter says that I do not understand. This is the man who wanted to vaccinate animals on Anglesey—first he wanted to vaccinate, then he did not, then he wanted to vaccinate and kill the animals and then he wanted to vaccinate and not kill them. In the end, he changed his mind completely. We would not be exporting now if it had been up to the Welsh Conservatives. We should not forget that. We need decisions, not the dithering that we had from the Conservatives. [CONSERVATIVE ASSEMBLY MEMBERS: ‘Oh.’] They can howl in shame about it. I understand why they feel so ashamed at their stance.
Fodd bynnag, mae’r ffermwyr yn datgan pryderon wrthyf. Dywedant nad ydynt yn siŵr a yw’r system yn gweithio’n iawn. Dyna a ddywedais yr wythnos diwethaf. Ni ddywed y ffermwyr hyn yn gyhoeddus, ond dywedant hynny wrthyf fi. Dylem gael dadl go iawn felly. Sut y cawn bris teg am ffermio? Bu hyn yn fater agos at fy nghalon. Ni wyraf oddi wrtho ac ni fyddaf yn ceisio osgoi cael pris teg i ffermwyr. Dywed Peter nad wyf yn deall. Dyma’r dyn oedd am frechu anifeiliaid ar Ynys Môn––yn gyntaf yr oedd am frechu, yna nid oedd am frechu, ac yna yr oedd am frechu a lladd yr anifeiliaid ac yna yr oedd am frechu a pheidio â’u lladd. Yn y pen draw, newidiodd ei feddwl yn gyfan gwbl. Ni fyddem yn allforio yn awr pe bai’r cyfrifoldeb wedi bod ar ysgwyddau Ceidwadwyr Cymru. Ni ddylem anghofio hynny. Mae angen penderfyniadau arnom, nid y tîn droi a gafwyd gan y Ceidwadwyr [AELODAU CEIDWADOL Y CYNULLIAD: ‘O.’] Gallant udo mewn cywilydd. Deallaf pam eu bod yn teimlo cymaint o gywilydd am eu safiad.
The fundamental problem that we must overcome is that we have a small number of buyers buying from a large number of sellers. Inevitably, that leads to a market imbalance. That does not mean that we should get rid of all our systems. However, we must address the imbalance. We know that the price of lamb has dropped. However, would the markets have made a difference? They have not made a blind bit of difference to the price of Scotch beef in Scotland. It has been the same price all along. Those are the comments of the president of the National Farmers Union of Scotland. They are not my words.
Y broblem sylfaenol y mae angen inni ei goresgyn yw bod gennym nifer fechan o brynwyr sy’n prynu gan nifer fawr o werthwyr. Yn anorfod, mae hyn yn arwain at anghydbwysedd yn y farchnad. Nid yw hynny yn golygu y dylem gael gwared ar bob un o’n systemau. Fodd bynnag, rhaid inni fynd i’r afael â’r anghydbwysedd. Gwyddom fod pris cig oen wedi gostwng. Fodd bynnag, a fyddai’r marchnadoedd wedi gwneud gwahaniaeth? Nid ydynt wedi gwneud unrhyw wahaniaeth o gwbl i bris cig eidion Albanaidd yn yr Alban. Mae wedi aros yr un pris. Dyna sylwadau Undeb Amaethwyr yr Alban. Nid fy ngeiriau i ydynt.
There must be competition. Farmers deserve to have a choice. Mick is right; farmers should be able to choose whether they use the marts or companies such as the Welsh Meat Company or whether they sell their livestock directly. There should be choice and competition all the way through. We want to establish that. The Welsh Conservatives say that they are all in favour of the free market and competition, but that we should abolish imports, because they are unfair competition. What does that say about the free market? We did not hear that in the 1980s when coal that had been dug out by 12-year-old Columbian children was being sold in Wales. What did we hear then about cheap imports? Nothing. The Conservatives forced local authorities to buy that coal instead of local coal and other local resources. We want to ensure that local authorities are liberated so that they can buy local produce and support local farmers. The Conservatives did not do it; we will.
Rhaid cael cystadleuaeth. Mae ffermwyr yn haeddu cael dewis. Mae Mick yn iawn; dylai ffermwyr allu dewis pa un a ydynt am ddefnyddio marchnadoedd neu gwmnïau megis Cwmni Cig Cymru neu werthu eu da byw yn uniongyrchol. Dylid sicrhau dewis a chystadleuaeth bob cam o’r ffordd. Yr ydym am sefydlu hynny. Dywed Ceidwadwyr Cymru eu bod o blaid y farchnad rydd a chystadleuaeth, ond y dylem wahardd mewnforion, am eu bod yn gystadleuaeth annheg. Beth ddywed hynny am y farchnad rydd? Ni chlywsom hynny yn yr 1980au pan werthwyd glo a gloddiwyd gan blant 12 oed yng Ngholumbia yng Nghymru. Beth glywsom yr adeg honno ynglŷn â mewnforio nwyddau rhad? Dim. Gorfododd y Ceidwadwyr awdurdodau lleol i brynu’r glo hwnnw yn hytrach na glo lleol ac adnoddau lleol eraill. Yr ydym am sicrhau y caiff awdurdodau lleol ryddid i brynu cynnyrch lleol a chefnogi ffermwyr lleol. Ni wnaeth y Ceidwadwyr hynny; ond fe wnawn ni.
Nick Bourne a gododd––
Nick Bourne rose—
I will not give way. You have had your chance.
Nid ildiaf. Cawsoch eich cyfle.
This is misleading.
Mae hyn yn gamarweiniol.
You have a monopoly on that. Nick could have intervened during Peter’s speech if he wanted to.
Mae gennych fonopoli ar hynny. Gallai Nick fod wedi ymyrryd yn ystod araith Peter pe dymunai.
I want farmers to have a choice. Where there is a problem with a system, I want it to be debated properly and resolved, not brushed under the carpet under the pretence that things are well. Otherwise, we are saying that the marts will reopen—they will reopen; that has always been said, and I hope that they will reopen in the new year—the problem is over and the price will be fine. We all know that that is not right. It is not fair that auctioneers are blamed for the price not being right. I do not want them to be blamed for that. However, based on the logical argument that Peter has put forward, they will be blamed
Yr wyf am i ffermwyr gael dewis. Pan fo problem gyda system, yr wyf am iddo gael ei ddadlau’n gywir a’i ddatrys, a pheidio â chael ei sgubo o dan y carped gan esgus fod popeth yn iawn. Fel arall, dywedwn y bydd y marchnadoedd yn ailagor––byddant yn ailagor; dywedwyd hynny o’r cychwyn, a gobeithiaf y byddant yn ailagor yn y flwyddyn newydd––mae’r broblem drosodd a bydd y pris yn iawn. Gwyddom oll nad yw hynny’n iawn. Nid yw’n deg bod arwerthwyr yn cael eu beio am y ffaith nad yw’r pris yn iawn. Nid wyf am iddynt gael y bai am hynny. Fodd bynnag, yn seiliedig ar y ddadl resymegol a gyflwynodd Peter, byddant yn cael eu beio.
I want to pose some questions. I believe that farmers should have a stake in processing, a stake in the abattoirs and a stake in the food chain. Do you believe that? I believe that farmers should have a choice of outlets, including livestock marts and others. Do you believe that? I believe that farmers have excellent entrepreneurial skills that should be allowed to flourish, not kept down and destroyed. Do you believe that? I believe that farmers should be allowed to rise from the bottom of the pile, not sit at the farm gate while others further up the food chain—I do not mean the auctioneers—make the money. I want to ensure that that does not happen. I want to liberate farmers to gain a slice of the market that has been denied to them for years. They have been told: ‘You people stay down there, know your place and let other people make the money.’ We must overcome that.
Yr wyf am ofyn rhai cwestiynau. Credaf y dylai ffermwyr gael rhan mewn prosesu, rhan yn y lladd-dai a rhan yn y gadwyn fwyd. A gredwch chi hynny? Credaf y dylai ffermwyr gael dewis o allfeydd, gan gynnwys marchnadoedd da byw ac eraill. A gredwch chi hynny? Credaf fod gan ffermwyr sgiliau entrepreneuraidd ardderchog ac y dylid gadael iddynt ffynnu, yn hytrach na’u sathru a’u dinistrio. A gredwch chi hynny? Credaf y dylai ffermwyr gael yr hawl i godi o waelod y domen, nid eistedd wrth glwyd y fferm tra bod eraill yn uwch ar y gadwyn fwyd––nid yr arwerthwyr yr wyf yn ei olygu––yn gwneud arian. Yr wyf am sicrhau na fydd hynny’n digwydd. Yr wyf am ryddhau ffermwyr i ennill rhan o’r farchnad nad yw wedi bod yn agored iddynt ers blynyddoedd. Dywedwyd wrthynt: ‘Arhoswch chi lle yr ydych, gwyddoch eich lle a gadewch i eraill gael yr arian.’ Rhaid inni oresgyn hynny.
I issue an invitation and a challenge to the auctioneers. You have given years of service to rural areas. You have skills that no-one else has in rural areas. You have contacts in the market and the facilities that will enable yourselves and farmers to work together to ensure a better price for farmers and a better living for yourselves. Will you do that? It is no good saying that there is no need for change ever. We know that farming must adapt. We want to help farming to do that, as we have done with Farming Connect and other measures. We will do the same for you. Tradition does not mean profitability. There was once a mining and steelworking tradition in this country. That has gone. Tradition did not save it. Tradition is not enough to ensure profitability for the future. Come with us. Be a part of the farming world that is to come, not the farming world that has been. Do not listen to Peter, the ghost of farming past, when he tells you that we do not understand what needs to be done. We understand what needs to be done in terms of economics to ensure that farming plays a proper and prosperous role in Wales in the future. The door is open. Will you respond?
Rhoddaf wahoddiad a her i’r arwerthwyr. Rhoesoch flynyddoedd o wasanaeth i ardaloedd gwledig. Mae gennych sgiliau nad oes gan neb arall mewn ardaloedd gwledig. Mae gennych gysylltiadau yn y farchnad a’r cyfleusterau a fydd yn eich galluogi chi a’r ffermwyr i gydweithio i sicrhau pris gwell i ffermwyr a bywyd gwell i chi eich hunain. A wnewch chi hynny? Mae’n ddiwerth dweud nad oes angen newid byth. Gwyddom fod yn rhaid i ffermio addasu. Yr ydym am helpu ffermio i wneud hynny, fel y gwnaethom gyda Chyswllt Ffermio a mesurau eraill. Gwnawn yr un peth i chi. Nid yw traddodiad yn golygu elw. Bu unwaith draddodiad glofaol a gweithfeydd dur yn y wlad hon. Mae hynny wedi diflannu. Ni chafodd ei arbed gan draddodiad. Nid yw traddodiad yn ddigon i sicrhau elw ar gyfer y dyfodol. Dewch gyda ni. Byddwch yn rhan o’r byd amaeth sydd i ddod, nid y byd amaeth a fu. Peidiwch â gwrando ar Peter, ysbryd yr amaeth a fu, pan ddywed wrthych nad ydym yn deall yr hyn sydd angen ei wneud. Deallwn yr hyn sydd angen ei wneud yn nhermau economeg i sicrhau bod amaeth yn chwarae rôl gywir a ffyniannus yng Nghymru yn y dyfodol. Mae’r drws ar agor. A wnewch chi ymateb?
Daeth y cyfarfod i ben am 12.40 p.m.
The session ended at 12.40 p.m.