English

Cynulliad Cenedlaethol CymruNational Assembly for Wales · Cyfarfod llawnPlenary sitting

Dydd Iau 21 Mawrth 2002

Thursday 21 March 2002

DechreuoddMet 09:05 · Daeth i benRose 12:32

Gweld y Cofnod (PDF)View the Record (PDF)

Heb ei wirio â llaw etoNot yet checked by hand

CynnwysContents

  1. 3Cynnig TrefniadolProcedural Motion 1 bleidlais1 vote
  2. 3Ethol i BwyllgorauElection to Committees 13 o bleidleisiau13 votes
  3. 16Cwestiynau i’r Gweinidog dros Iechyd a Gwasanaethau CymdeithasolQuestions to the Minister for Health and Social Services
    1. 16Safonau ar gyfer Fframwaith Gwasanaeth Gwladol yng Nghymru ar gyfer Clefyd SiwgrStandards for the Diabetes National Service Framework for Wales
    2. 17Ysgol Glinigol i Ogledd CymruNorth Wales Clinical School
    3. 19Llawdriniaethau i Dynnu TonsiliauTonsillectomies Performed in Wales
    4. 20Mesur GIG CymruNHS Wales Bill
    5. 22Rhestrau ArosWaiting Lists
    6. 23Ffitrwydd Corfforol PlantPhysical Fitness of Children
    7. 25Darparu Gwasanaethau Ysbyty Newydd yn Ardal CaerdyddProvision of New Hospital Services in the Cardiff Area
  4. 26Cwestiynau i’r Gweinidog dros Addysg a Dysgu Gydol OesQuestions to the Minister for Education and Lifelong Learning
    1. 26Sefydliadau Addysg UwchHigher Education Instituions
    2. 29Rhan i’r Sector Preifat mewn Darparu Addysg yn y Sector CyhoeddusInvolvment of the Private Sector in Public Sector Education Provision
    3. 31Myfyrwyr HŷnMature Students
    4. 32Dysgu Ieithoedd Tramor Modern mewn Ysgolion CynraddModern Foreign Language Learning at Primary Level
    5. 34Prosiectau ar y cyd rhwng Prifysgolion yng Nghymru a LloegrCollaborative Projects between Universities in England and Wales
  5. 36Pwynt o DrefnPoint of Order
  6. 37Cynnig Cyfansawdd: Cymeradwyo GorchmynionComposite Motion: Approval of Orders 1 bleidlais1 vote
  7. 40Pwyntiau o DrefnPoints of Order
  8. 42Cymeradwyo Rheoliadau Cymorth Gwladol (Asesu Adnoddau) (Diwygio) (Cymru) 2002 a Rheoliadau Cymorth Gwladol (Symiau at Anghenion Personol) (Cymru) 2002Approval of the National Assistance (Assessment of Resources) (Amendment) (Wales) Regulations 2002 and of the National Assistance (Sums for Personal Requirements) (Wales) Regulations 2002 6 o bleidleisiau6 votes
  9. 61Cymeradwyo Gorchymyn y Gynddaredd (Mewnforio Cŵn, Cathod a Mamaliaid Eraill) (Diwygiad) (Cymru) 2002Approval of the Rabies (Importation of Dogs, Cats and Other Mammals) (Amendment) (Wales) Order 2002 1 bleidlais1 vote
  10. 64Cymeradwyo’r Gyllideb AtodolApproval of the Supplementary Budget 1 bleidlais1 vote
  11. 77Datganiad gan y LlywyddStatement by the Presiding Officer
  12. 78Yr Ail Adroddiad Blynyddol ar Gynhwysiant Cymdeithasol yng NghymruThe Second Annual Report on Social Inclusion in Wales 4 o bleidleisiau4 votes
  13. 110Dadl FerShort Debate
    1. 110Ffordd Liniaru Traffordd yr M4–Pryd?M4 Motorway Relief Road—When?

PleidleisiauVotes

PleidlaisVoteO blaidForYmatalAbstainYn erbynAgainstCanlyniadResult
Cynnig TrefniadolProcedural Motion
Cynnig trefniadolProcedural motion3000DerbyniwydAdopted
Ethol i BwyllgorauElection to Committees
Cynnig NNDM999Motion NNDM9993200DerbyniwydAdopted
Cynnig NNDM1000Motion NNDM10003400DerbyniwydAdopted
Cynnig NNDM1001Motion NNDM10013100DerbyniwydAdopted
Cynnig NNDM1002Motion NNDM10023400DerbyniwydAdopted
Cynnig NNDM1003Motion NNDM10033500DerbyniwydAdopted
Cynnig NNDM1004Motion NNDM10043510DerbyniwydAdopted
Cynnig NNDM1005Motion NNDM10053700DerbyniwydAdopted
Cynnig NNDM1006Motion NNDM10063900DerbyniwydAdopted
Cynnig NNDM1007Motion NNDM10073610DerbyniwydAdopted
Cynnig NNDM1008Motion NNDM10083400DerbyniwydAdopted
Cynnig NNDM1011Motion NNDM10114100DerbyniwydAdopted
Cynnig NNDM1020Motion NNDM10204100DerbyniwydAdopted
Cynnig NNDM1021Motion NNDM10213910DerbyniwydAdopted
Cynnig Cyfansawdd: Cymeradwyo GorchmynionComposite Motion: Approval of Orders
Cynnig cyfansawdd NDM1018Composite motion NDM10184200DerbyniwydAdopted
Cymeradwyo Rheoliadau Cymorth Gwladol (Asesu Adnoddau) (Diwygio) (Cymru) 2002 a Rheoliadau Cymorth Gwladol (Symiau at Anghenion Personol) (Cymru) 2002Approval of the National Assistance (Assessment of Resources) (Amendment) (Wales) Regulations 2002 and of the National Assistance (Sums for Personal Requirements) (Wales) Regulations 2002
Cynnig NDM1016Motion NDM10165000DerbyniwydAdopted
Gwelliant 1Amendment 122028GwrthodwydRejected
CynnigMotion4406DerbyniwydAdopted
Cynnig NDM1017Motion NDM10175000DerbyniwydAdopted
Gwelliant 1Amendment 122028GwrthodwydRejected
CynnigMotion4406DerbyniwydAdopted
Cymeradwyo Gorchymyn y Gynddaredd (Mewnforio Cŵn, Cathod a Mamaliaid Eraill) (Diwygiad) (Cymru) 2002Approval of the Rabies (Importation of Dogs, Cats and Other Mammals) (Amendment) (Wales) Order 2002
Cynnig NDM1019Motion NDM10194500DerbyniwydAdopted
Cymeradwyo’r Gyllideb AtodolApproval of the Supplementary Budget
Cynnig NDM1013Motion NDM10134040DerbyniwydAdopted
Yr Ail Adroddiad Blynyddol ar Gynhwysiant Cymdeithasol yng NghymruThe Second Annual Report on Social Inclusion in Wales
Gwelliant 1Amendment 116029GwrthodwydRejected
Gwelliant 2Amendment 216028GwrthodwydRejected
Gwelliant 3Amendment 316028GwrthodwydRejected
Cynnig NDM1012Motion NDM10124500DerbyniwydAdopted

TrafodionProceedings

Cyfarfu’r Cynulliad am 9.05 a.m. gyda’r Llywydd yn y Gadair.

The Assembly met at 9.05 a.m. with the Presiding Officer in the Chair.

Cynnig Trefniadol

Procedural Motion

Carwyn Jones Y Gweinidog dros Faterion Gwledig a Threfnydd y Cynulliad siaradwyd yn Gymraeg t. 3

Carwyn Jones The Minister for Rural Affairs and Assembly Business spoken in Welsh p. 3

Cynigiaf fod

I propose that

Cynnig trefniadol Carwyn Jones t. 3

Procedural motion Carwyn Jones p. 3

DerbyniwydAdopted O blaidFor 30 YmatalAbstain 0 Yn erbynAgainst 0

Derbyniwyd y cynnig.

Motion carried.

Sut y pleidleisiodd yr AelodauHow Members voted
O blaidFor (30)
  • Mick Bates
  • Peter Black
  • Eleanor Burnham
  • Alun Cairns
  • Cynog Dafis
  • Geraint Davies
  • Janet Davies
  • Jocelyn Davies
  • Michael German
  • Brian Gibbons
  • William Graham
  • Janice Gregory
  • John Griffiths
  • Jane Hutt
  • Carwyn Jones
  • Elin Jones
  • Ieuan Wyn Jones
  • Peter Law
  • David Lloyd
  • Val Lloyd
  • David Melding
  • Tom Middlehurst
  • Jonathan Morgan
  • Alun Pugh
  • Rod Richards
  • Karen Sinclair
  • Owen John Thomas
  • Rhodri Glyn Thomas
  • Dafydd Wigley
  • Phil Williams

Ethol i Bwyllgorau

Election to Committees

Carwyn Jones Y Gweinidog dros Faterion Gwledig a Threfnydd y Cynulliad siaradwyd yn Gymraeg t. 3

Carwyn Jones The Minister for Rural Affairs and Assembly Business spoken in Welsh p. 3

Cynigiaf fod

I propose that

Cynnig NNDM999 Carwyn Jones t. 4

Motion NNDM999 Carwyn Jones p. 4

DerbyniwydAdopted O blaidFor 32 YmatalAbstain 0 Yn erbynAgainst 0

Derbyniwyd y cynnig.

Motion carried.

Sut y pleidleisiodd yr AelodauHow Members voted
O blaidFor (32)
  • Mick Bates
  • Peter Black
  • Eleanor Burnham
  • Alun Cairns
  • Cynog Dafis
  • Jane Davidson
  • Geraint Davies
  • Janet Davies
  • Jocelyn Davies
  • Michael German
  • Brian Gibbons
  • William Graham
  • Janice Gregory
  • John Griffiths
  • Jane Hutt
  • Pauline Jarman
  • Carwyn Jones
  • Elin Jones
  • Ieuan Wyn Jones
  • Peter Law
  • David Lloyd
  • Val Lloyd
  • David Melding
  • Tom Middlehurst
  • Jonathan Morgan
  • Alun Pugh
  • Rod Richards
  • Karen Sinclair
  • Owen John Thomas
  • Rhodri Glyn Thomas
  • Dafydd Wigley
  • Phil Williams

Carwyn Jones Y Gweinidog dros Faterion Gwledig a Threfnydd y Cynulliad siaradwyd yn Gymraeg t. 4

Carwyn Jones The Minister for Rural Affairs and Assembly Business spoken in Welsh p. 4

Cynigiaf fod

I propose that

Cynnig NNDM1000 Carwyn Jones t. 5

Motion NNDM1000 Carwyn Jones p. 5

DerbyniwydAdopted O blaidFor 34 YmatalAbstain 0 Yn erbynAgainst 0

Derbyniwyd y cynnig.

Motion carried.

Sut y pleidleisiodd yr AelodauHow Members voted
O blaidFor (34)
  • Mick Bates
  • Peter Black
  • Eleanor Burnham
  • Rosemary Butler
  • Alun Cairns
  • Christine Chapman
  • Cynog Dafis
  • Jane Davidson
  • Geraint Davies
  • Janet Davies
  • Jocelyn Davies
  • Michael German
  • Brian Gibbons
  • William Graham
  • Janice Gregory
  • John Griffiths
  • Jane Hutt
  • Pauline Jarman
  • Carwyn Jones
  • Elin Jones
  • Ieuan Wyn Jones
  • Peter Law
  • David Lloyd
  • Val Lloyd
  • David Melding
  • Tom Middlehurst
  • Jonathan Morgan
  • Alun Pugh
  • Rod Richards
  • Karen Sinclair
  • Owen John Thomas
  • Rhodri Glyn Thomas
  • Dafydd Wigley
  • Phil Williams

Carwyn Jones Y Gweinidog dros Faterion Gwledig a Threfnydd y Cynulliad siaradwyd yn Gymraeg t. 5

Carwyn Jones The Minister for Rural Affairs and Assembly Business spoken in Welsh p. 5

Cynigiaf fod

I propose that

Cynnig NNDM1001 Carwyn Jones t. 5

Motion NNDM1001 Carwyn Jones p. 5

DerbyniwydAdopted O blaidFor 31 YmatalAbstain 0 Yn erbynAgainst 0

Derbyniwyd y cynnig.

Motion carried.

Sut y pleidleisiodd yr AelodauHow Members voted
O blaidFor (31)
  • Mick Bates
  • Eleanor Burnham
  • Rosemary Butler
  • Alun Cairns
  • Christine Chapman
  • Cynog Dafis
  • Jane Davidson
  • Geraint Davies
  • Janet Davies
  • Michael German
  • Brian Gibbons
  • William Graham
  • Janice Gregory
  • John Griffiths
  • Jane Hutt
  • Pauline Jarman
  • Carwyn Jones
  • Elin Jones
  • Ieuan Wyn Jones
  • Peter Law
  • David Lloyd
  • David Melding
  • Tom Middlehurst
  • Jonathan Morgan
  • Alun Pugh
  • Rod Richards
  • Karen Sinclair
  • Owen John Thomas
  • Rhodri Glyn Thomas
  • Dafydd Wigley
  • Phil Williams

Carwyn Jones Y Gweinidog dros Faterion Gwledig a Threfnydd y Cynulliad siaradwyd yn Gymraeg t. 6

Carwyn Jones The Minister for Rural Affairs and Assembly Business spoken in Welsh p. 6

Cynigiaf fod

I propose that

Cynnig NNDM1002 Carwyn Jones t. 6

Motion NNDM1002 Carwyn Jones p. 6

DerbyniwydAdopted O blaidFor 34 YmatalAbstain 0 Yn erbynAgainst 0

Derbyniwyd y cynnig.

Motion carried.

Sut y pleidleisiodd yr AelodauHow Members voted
O blaidFor (34)
  • Mick Bates
  • Peter Black
  • Eleanor Burnham
  • Rosemary Butler
  • Alun Cairns
  • Christine Chapman
  • Cynog Dafis
  • Jane Davidson
  • Geraint Davies
  • Janet Davies
  • Jocelyn Davies
  • Michael German
  • Brian Gibbons
  • William Graham
  • Janice Gregory
  • John Griffiths
  • Jane Hutt
  • Pauline Jarman
  • Carwyn Jones
  • Elin Jones
  • Ieuan Wyn Jones
  • Peter Law
  • David Lloyd
  • Val Lloyd
  • David Melding
  • Tom Middlehurst
  • Jonathan Morgan
  • Alun Pugh
  • Rod Richards
  • Karen Sinclair
  • Owen John Thomas
  • Rhodri Glyn Thomas
  • Dafydd Wigley
  • Phil Williams

Carwyn Jones Y Gweinidog dros Faterion Gwledig a Threfnydd y Cynulliad siaradwyd yn Gymraeg t. 7

Carwyn Jones The Minister for Rural Affairs and Assembly Business spoken in Welsh p. 7

Cynigiaf fod

I propose that

Cynnig NNDM1003 Carwyn Jones t. 7

Motion NNDM1003 Carwyn Jones p. 7

DerbyniwydAdopted O blaidFor 35 YmatalAbstain 0 Yn erbynAgainst 0

Derbyniwyd y cynnig.

Motion carried.

Sut y pleidleisiodd yr AelodauHow Members voted
O blaidFor (35)
  • Mick Bates
  • Peter Black
  • Eleanor Burnham
  • Rosemary Butler
  • Alun Cairns
  • Christine Chapman
  • Cynog Dafis
  • Jane Davidson
  • Geraint Davies
  • Janet Davies
  • Jocelyn Davies
  • Michael German
  • Brian Gibbons
  • William Graham
  • Janice Gregory
  • John Griffiths
  • Jane Hutt
  • Pauline Jarman
  • Carwyn Jones
  • Elin Jones
  • Gareth Jones
  • Ieuan Wyn Jones
  • Peter Law
  • David Lloyd
  • Val Lloyd
  • David Melding
  • Tom Middlehurst
  • Jonathan Morgan
  • Alun Pugh
  • Rod Richards
  • Karen Sinclair
  • Owen John Thomas
  • Rhodri Glyn Thomas
  • Dafydd Wigley
  • Phil Williams

Carwyn Jones Y Gweinidog dros Faterion Gwledig a Threfnydd y Cynulliad siaradwyd yn Gymraeg t. 8

Carwyn Jones The Minister for Rural Affairs and Assembly Business spoken in Welsh p. 8

Cynigiaf fod

I propose that

Cynnig NNDM1004 Carwyn Jones t. 8

Motion NNDM1004 Carwyn Jones p. 8

DerbyniwydAdopted O blaidFor 35 YmatalAbstain 1 Yn erbynAgainst 0

Derbyniwyd y cynnig.

Motion carried.

Sut y pleidleisiodd yr AelodauHow Members voted
O blaidFor (35)
  • Lorraine Barrett
  • Mick Bates
  • Peter Black
  • Eleanor Burnham
  • Rosemary Butler
  • Alun Cairns
  • Christine Chapman
  • Cynog Dafis
  • Jane Davidson
  • Geraint Davies
  • Janet Davies
  • Jocelyn Davies
  • Michael German
  • Brian Gibbons
  • William Graham
  • Janice Gregory
  • John Griffiths
  • Jane Hutt
  • Pauline Jarman
  • Carwyn Jones
  • Elin Jones
  • Gareth Jones
  • Ieuan Wyn Jones
  • Peter Law
  • David Lloyd
  • Val Lloyd
  • David Melding
  • Tom Middlehurst
  • Alun Pugh
  • Rod Richards
  • Karen Sinclair
  • Owen John Thomas
  • Rhodri Glyn Thomas
  • Dafydd Wigley
  • Phil Williams
YmatalAbstain (1)
  • Jonathan Morgan

Carwyn Jones Y Gweinidog dros Faterion Gwledig a Threfnydd y Cynulliad siaradwyd yn Gymraeg t. 9

Carwyn Jones The Minister for Rural Affairs and Assembly Business spoken in Welsh p. 9

Cynigiaf fod

I propose that

Cynnig NNDM1005 Carwyn Jones t. 9

Motion NNDM1005 Carwyn Jones p. 9

DerbyniwydAdopted O blaidFor 37 YmatalAbstain 0 Yn erbynAgainst 0

Derbyniwyd y cynnig.

Motion carried.

Sut y pleidleisiodd yr AelodauHow Members voted
O blaidFor (37)
  • Lorraine Barrett
  • Mick Bates
  • Peter Black
  • Eleanor Burnham
  • Rosemary Butler
  • Alun Cairns
  • Christine Chapman
  • Cynog Dafis
  • Andrew Davies
  • Geraint Davies
  • Janet Davies
  • Jocelyn Davies
  • Michael German
  • Brian Gibbons
  • William Graham
  • Janice Gregory
  • John Griffiths
  • Jane Hutt
  • Pauline Jarman
  • Carwyn Jones
  • Elin Jones
  • Gareth Jones
  • Helen Mary Jones
  • Ieuan Wyn Jones
  • Peter Law
  • David Lloyd
  • Val Lloyd
  • David Melding
  • Tom Middlehurst
  • Jonathan Morgan
  • Alun Pugh
  • Rod Richards
  • Karen Sinclair
  • Owen John Thomas
  • Rhodri Glyn Thomas
  • Dafydd Wigley
  • Phil Williams

Carwyn Jones Y Gweinidog dros Faterion Gwledig a Threfnydd y Cynulliad siaradwyd yn Gymraeg t. 10

Carwyn Jones The Minister for Rural Affairs and Assembly Business spoken in Welsh p. 10

Cynigiaf fod

I propose that

Cynnig NNDM1006 Carwyn Jones t. 10

Motion NNDM1006 Carwyn Jones p. 10

DerbyniwydAdopted O blaidFor 39 YmatalAbstain 0 Yn erbynAgainst 0

Derbyniwyd y cynnig.

Motion carried.

Sut y pleidleisiodd yr AelodauHow Members voted
O blaidFor (39)
  • Lorraine Barrett
  • Mick Bates
  • Peter Black
  • Eleanor Burnham
  • Rosemary Butler
  • Alun Cairns
  • Christine Chapman
  • Cynog Dafis
  • Jane Davidson
  • Andrew Davies
  • David Davies
  • Geraint Davies
  • Janet Davies
  • Jocelyn Davies
  • Michael German
  • Brian Gibbons
  • William Graham
  • Janice Gregory
  • John Griffiths
  • Jane Hutt
  • Pauline Jarman
  • Carwyn Jones
  • Elin Jones
  • Gareth Jones
  • Helen Mary Jones
  • Ieuan Wyn Jones
  • Peter Law
  • David Lloyd
  • Val Lloyd
  • David Melding
  • Tom Middlehurst
  • Jonathan Morgan
  • Alun Pugh
  • Rod Richards
  • Karen Sinclair
  • Owen John Thomas
  • Rhodri Glyn Thomas
  • Dafydd Wigley
  • Phil Williams

Carwyn Jones Y Gweinidog dros Faterion Gwledig a Threfnydd y Cynulliad siaradwyd yn Gymraeg t. 11

Carwyn Jones The Minister for Rural Affairs and Assembly Business spoken in Welsh p. 11

Cynigiaf fod

I propose that

Cynnig NNDM1007 Carwyn Jones t. 11

Motion NNDM1007 Carwyn Jones p. 11

DerbyniwydAdopted O blaidFor 36 YmatalAbstain 1 Yn erbynAgainst 0

Derbyniwyd y cynnig.

Motion carried.

Sut y pleidleisiodd yr AelodauHow Members voted
O blaidFor (36)
  • Lorraine Barrett
  • Mick Bates
  • Peter Black
  • Eleanor Burnham
  • Alun Cairns
  • Christine Chapman
  • Cynog Dafis
  • Jane Davidson
  • Andrew Davies
  • David Davies
  • Geraint Davies
  • Janet Davies
  • Michael German
  • Brian Gibbons
  • William Graham
  • Janice Gregory
  • John Griffiths
  • Jane Hutt
  • Pauline Jarman
  • Carwyn Jones
  • Elin Jones
  • Gareth Jones
  • Helen Mary Jones
  • Ieuan Wyn Jones
  • Peter Law
  • David Lloyd
  • Val Lloyd
  • David Melding
  • Jonathan Morgan
  • Alun Pugh
  • Rod Richards
  • Karen Sinclair
  • Owen John Thomas
  • Rhodri Glyn Thomas
  • Dafydd Wigley
  • Phil Williams
YmatalAbstain (1)
  • Rosemary Butler

Carwyn Jones Y Gweinidog dros Faterion Gwledig a Threfnydd y Cynulliad siaradwyd yn Gymraeg t. 12

Carwyn Jones The Minister for Rural Affairs and Assembly Business spoken in Welsh p. 12

Cynigiaf fod

I propose that

Cynnig NNDM1008 Carwyn Jones t. 12

Motion NNDM1008 Carwyn Jones p. 12

DerbyniwydAdopted O blaidFor 34 YmatalAbstain 0 Yn erbynAgainst 0

Derbyniwyd y cynnig.

Motion carried.

Sut y pleidleisiodd yr AelodauHow Members voted
O blaidFor (34)
  • Lorraine Barrett
  • Mick Bates
  • Peter Black
  • Rosemary Butler
  • Alun Cairns
  • Christine Chapman
  • Cynog Dafis
  • Andrew Davies
  • David Davies
  • Geraint Davies
  • Janet Davies
  • Jocelyn Davies
  • Michael German
  • William Graham
  • Janice Gregory
  • John Griffiths
  • Jane Hutt
  • Carwyn Jones
  • Gareth Jones
  • Helen Mary Jones
  • Ieuan Wyn Jones
  • Peter Law
  • David Lloyd
  • Val Lloyd
  • David Melding
  • Tom Middlehurst
  • Jonathan Morgan
  • Alun Pugh
  • Rod Richards
  • Karen Sinclair
  • Owen John Thomas
  • Rhodri Glyn Thomas
  • Dafydd Wigley
  • Phil Williams

Carwyn Jones Y Gweinidog dros Faterion Gwledig a Threfnydd y Cynulliad siaradwyd yn Gymraeg t. 13

Carwyn Jones The Minister for Rural Affairs and Assembly Business spoken in Welsh p. 13

Cynigiaf fod

I propose that

Cynnig NNDM1011 Carwyn Jones t. 13

Motion NNDM1011 Carwyn Jones p. 13

DerbyniwydAdopted O blaidFor 41 YmatalAbstain 0 Yn erbynAgainst 0

Derbyniwyd y cynnig.

Motion carried.

Sut y pleidleisiodd yr AelodauHow Members voted
O blaidFor (41)
  • Lorraine Barrett
  • Mick Bates
  • Peter Black
  • Eleanor Burnham
  • Rosemary Butler
  • Alun Cairns
  • Christine Chapman
  • Cynog Dafis
  • Jane Davidson
  • Andrew Davies
  • David Davies
  • Geraint Davies
  • Janet Davies
  • Jocelyn Davies
  • Michael German
  • Brian Gibbons
  • William Graham
  • Janice Gregory
  • John Griffiths
  • Edwina Hart
  • Jane Hutt
  • Pauline Jarman
  • Ann Jones
  • Carwyn Jones
  • Elin Jones
  • Gareth Jones
  • Helen Mary Jones
  • Ieuan Wyn Jones
  • Peter Law
  • David Lloyd
  • Val Lloyd
  • David Melding
  • Tom Middlehurst
  • Jonathan Morgan
  • Alun Pugh
  • Rod Richards
  • Karen Sinclair
  • Owen John Thomas
  • Rhodri Glyn Thomas
  • Dafydd Wigley
  • Phil Williams

Carwyn Jones Y Gweinidog dros Faterion Gwledig a Threfnydd y Cynulliad siaradwyd yn Gymraeg t. 14

Carwyn Jones The Minister for Rural Affairs and Assembly Business spoken in Welsh p. 14

Cynigiaf fod

I propose that

Cynnig NNDM1020 Carwyn Jones t. 14

Motion NNDM1020 Carwyn Jones p. 14

DerbyniwydAdopted O blaidFor 41 YmatalAbstain 0 Yn erbynAgainst 0

Derbyniwyd y cynnig.

Motion carried.

Sut y pleidleisiodd yr AelodauHow Members voted
O blaidFor (41)
  • Lorraine Barrett
  • Mick Bates
  • Peter Black
  • Eleanor Burnham
  • Rosemary Butler
  • Alun Cairns
  • Christine Chapman
  • Cynog Dafis
  • Jane Davidson
  • Andrew Davies
  • David Davies
  • Geraint Davies
  • Janet Davies
  • Jocelyn Davies
  • Michael German
  • Brian Gibbons
  • William Graham
  • Janice Gregory
  • John Griffiths
  • Edwina Hart
  • Jane Hutt
  • Pauline Jarman
  • Ann Jones
  • Carwyn Jones
  • Elin Jones
  • Gareth Jones
  • Helen Mary Jones
  • Ieuan Wyn Jones
  • Peter Law
  • David Lloyd
  • Val Lloyd
  • David Melding
  • Tom Middlehurst
  • Jonathan Morgan
  • Alun Pugh
  • Rod Richards
  • Karen Sinclair
  • Owen John Thomas
  • Rhodri Glyn Thomas
  • Dafydd Wigley
  • Phil Williams

Carwyn Jones Y Gweinidog dros Faterion Gwledig a Threfnydd y Cynulliad siaradwyd yn Gymraeg t. 15

Carwyn Jones The Minister for Rural Affairs and Assembly Business spoken in Welsh p. 15

Cynigiaf fod

I propose that

Cynnig NNDM1021 Carwyn Jones t. 15

Motion NNDM1021 Carwyn Jones p. 15

DerbyniwydAdopted O blaidFor 39 YmatalAbstain 1 Yn erbynAgainst 0

Derbyniwyd y cynnig.

Motion carried.

Sut y pleidleisiodd yr AelodauHow Members voted
O blaidFor (39)
  • Lorraine Barrett
  • Mick Bates
  • Peter Black
  • Eleanor Burnham
  • Rosemary Butler
  • Alun Cairns
  • Christine Chapman
  • Cynog Dafis
  • Andrew Davies
  • David Davies
  • Geraint Davies
  • Janet Davies
  • Jocelyn Davies
  • Michael German
  • Brian Gibbons
  • William Graham
  • Janice Gregory
  • John Griffiths
  • Edwina Hart
  • Jane Hutt
  • Pauline Jarman
  • Ann Jones
  • Carwyn Jones
  • Elin Jones
  • Gareth Jones
  • Helen Mary Jones
  • Ieuan Wyn Jones
  • Peter Law
  • David Lloyd
  • Val Lloyd
  • David Melding
  • Tom Middlehurst
  • Jonathan Morgan
  • Alun Pugh
  • Rod Richards
  • Karen Sinclair
  • Owen John Thomas
  • Rhodri Glyn Thomas
  • Phil Williams
YmatalAbstain (1)
  • Dafydd Wigley

Dafydd Elis-Thomas Y Llywydd siaradwyd yn Gymraeg t. 16

Dafydd Elis-Thomas The Presiding Officer spoken in Welsh p. 16

Credaf fod yr etholiadau i gyd ar ben. Gobeithiaf y bydd modd inni ddiwygio’r Rheolau Sefydlog yn fuan er mwyn cynnal etholiadau en bloc.

I believe that the elections are all done. I hope that we will be able to amend Standing Orders soon in order to hold elections en bloc.

Cwestiynau i’r Gweinidog dros Iechyd a Gwasanaethau Cymdeithasol

Questions to the Minister for Health and Social Services

Safonau ar gyfer Fframwaith Gwasanaeth Gwladol yng Nghymru ar gyfer Clefyd Siwgr

Standards for the Diabetes National Service Framework for Wales

C1 Cynog Dafis siaradwyd yn Gymraeg t. 16

Q1 Cynog Dafis spoken in Welsh p. 16

Pryd y bydd y safonau ar gyfer fframwaith gwasanaeth gwladol yng Nghymru ar gyfer clefyd siwgr yn cael eu cyhoeddi? (OAQ16490)

When will the standards for the diabetes national service framework for Wales be published? (OAQ16490)

Jane Hutt The Minister for Health and Social Services spoken in English p. 16

Jane Hutt Y Gweinidog dros Iechyd a Gwasanaethau Cymdeithasol siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 16

Work on the standards has finished and preparations for publication are nearly complete. We expect to publish them next month.

Mae’r gwaith ar y safonau wedi gorffen ac mae’r paratoadau ar gyfer eu cyhoeddi bron â’u cwblhau. Yr ydym yn disgwyl eu cyhoeddi’r mis nesaf.

Cynog Dafis siaradwyd yn Gymraeg t. 16

Cynog Dafis spoken in Welsh p. 16

Mae hynny’n newyddion da. Serch hynny, a gytuna’r Gweinidog mai gweithredu yw’r peth pwysig yn awr? Pryd y bydd yn cyhoeddi’r cynllun gweithredu a phryd y caiff safonau eu rhoi ar waith yn ymarferol? A oes modd ichi roi dyddiadau pendant?

That is good news. However, does the Minister agree that the important thing now is to act? When will she publish the implementation plan and when will the standards be put into practice? Can you give definite dates?

Jane Hutt spoken in English p. 17

Jane Hutt siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 17

We set up an implementation group for the diabetes national service framework in January 2001. This time last year, when I announced my ‘Improving Health in Wales’ plan, I announced £1 million per year over the next three years to ensure that we had the funding to take the plan forward. The diabetes standards will be published in April, as I said. Over the next eight months we will consider all the services and the gaps in those services. The implementation group will meet in April and will meet regularly in coming months. The NSF is due to be published next spring.

Sefydlasom grŵp gweithredu ar gyfer fframwaith gwasanaeth gwladol clefyd siwgr yn Ionawr 2001. Yr adeg hon y llynedd, pan gyhoeddais fy nghynllun ‘Gwella Iechyd yng Nghymru’, cyhoeddais y byddai £1 miliwn y flwyddyn ar gael dros y tair blynedd nesaf i sicrhau bod gennym ddigon o arian i fwrw ymlaen â’r cynllun. Cyhoeddir y safonau clefyd siwgr yn Ebrill, fel y dywedais. Dros yr wyth mis nesaf byddwn yn ystyried yr holl wasanaethau a’r bylchau yn y gwasanaethau hynny. Bydd y grŵp gweithredu’n cwrdd yn Ebrill ac yn cwrdd yn rheolaidd yn y misoedd i ddod. Mae’r fframwaith gwasanaeth gwladol i fod i’w gyhoeddi y gwanwyn nesaf.

Lorraine Barrett spoken in English p. 17

Lorraine Barrett siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 17

Will you join me in congratulating the staff at the diabetes centre at Llandough hospital, which you recently visited with me, and will you mention the funding assistance that you gave to the centre?

A wnewch ymuno â mi wrth longyfarch y staff yn y ganolfan clefyd siwgr yn ysbyty Llandochau, yr ymwelsoch â hi’n ddiweddar gyda mi, ac a wnewch sôn am y cymorth ariannu yr ydych wedi’i roi i’r ganolfan?

Jane Hutt spoken in English p. 17

Jane Hutt siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 17

I was pleased that we were able to support the diabetes resource centre at Llandough. It succeed in getting a grant from the Assembly and £25,000 from the health authority to back up the trust; there was also fundraising by local people and the local diabetes advisory group, which enabled it to open.

Yr oeddwn yn falch ein bod yn gallu cynorthwyo’r ganolfan adnoddau clefyd siwgr yn Llandochau. Llwyddodd i gael grant gan y Cynulliad a £25,000 oddi wrth yr awdurdod iechyd i gynorthwyo’r ymddiriedolaeth; codwyd arian gan bobl leol a’r grŵp ymgynghorol clefyd siwgr lleol hefyd, a’i galluogodd i agor.

Jonathan Morgan spoken in English p. 17

Jonathan Morgan siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 17

Further to your announcement of June 2001, when will the all-Wales diabetic retinopathy screening programme begin?

Ymhellach i’ch cyhoeddiad ym Mehefin 2001, pa bryd y bydd y rhaglen sgrinio retinopathi diabetig i Gymru gyfan yn dechrau?

Jane Hutt spoken in English p. 17

Jane Hutt siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 17

The programme’s steering group will meet for the first time on 17 April. Professor David Owens, who has a worldwide reputation, will be the clinical lead. He developed the diabetic retinopathy scheme in Bro Taf Health Authority and we have provided funding to ensure that it is rolled out throughout Wales.

Bydd grŵp llywio’r rhaglen yn cwrdd am y tro cyntaf ar 17 Ebrill. Yr Athro David Owens, sef gŵr a chanddo enw rhyngwladol, fydd yr arweinydd clinigol. Ef a ddatblygodd y cynllun retinopathi diabetig yn Awdurdod Iechyd Bro Taf ac yr ydym wedi darparu arian i sicrhau y caiff ei ymestyn ledled Cymru.

Ysgol Glinigol i Ogledd Cymru

North Wales Clinical School

Q2 Karen Sinclair spoken in English p. 17

C2 Karen Sinclair siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 17

Will the Minister please give an update on the submitted business case by north Wales health and social care collaborations joint policy board for a north Wales clinical school? (OAQ16548)

A wnaiff y Gweinidog roi’r wybodaeth ddiweddaraf am yr achos busnes a gyflwynwyd gan fwrdd polisi ar y cyd gogledd Cymru ar gydweithio ar iechyd a gofal cymdeithasol ar gyfer ysgol glinigol i Ogledd Cymru? (OAQ16548)

Jane Hutt spoken in English p. 18

Jane Hutt siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 18

The business case provides a useful outline strategic case, but now needs to be developed to satisfy established requirements for NHS capital investment projects on this scale. Officials will attend the next meeting of the joint policy board to explain the requirements and process in more detail.

Mae’r achos busnes yn achos strategol amlinellol defnyddiol, ond mae angen ei ddatblygu’n awr i fodloni’r gofynion sefydledig i brosiectau buddsoddi cyfalaf GIG o’r maint hwn. Bydd swyddogion yn bresennol yng nghyfarfod nesaf y bwrdd polisi ar y cyd i egluro’r gofynion a’r broses yn fanylach.

Karen Sinclair spoken in English p. 18

Karen Sinclair siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 18

There is a great deal of expectation and excitement in north Wales, but recruiting and retaining medical staff there is difficult. Do you agree that this matter is urgent? Establishing the new school will attract medical experts.

Mae llawer iawn o ddisgwyl a chyffro yn y Gogledd, ond mae’n anodd recriwtio a chadw staff meddygol yno. A ydych yn cytuno bod hynny’n fater brys? Bydd sefydlu’r ysgol newydd yn denu arbenigwyr meddygol.

Jane Hutt spoken in English p. 18

Jane Hutt siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 18

The new school will be critical for recruiting and retaining staff in north Wales. I committed myself to taking this project forward when I announced the opening of the clinical school in Swansea. We must now get the business details for the capital investment right, and you have my commitment that this will be handled as a matter of urgency.

Bydd yr ysgol newydd yn hollbwysig er mwyn recriwtio a chadw staff yn y Gogledd. Ymrwymais i fwrw ymlaen â’r prosiect hwn pan gyhoeddais y bwriad i agor yr ysgol glinigol yn Abertawe. Rhaid inni gael manylion busnes y buddsoddiad cyfalaf yn iawn, ac yr wyf yn addo i chi y caiff hyn ei drafod fel mater brys.

David Lloyd siaradwyd yn Gymraeg t. 18

David Lloyd spoken in Welsh p. 18

Mae prinder deintyddion mewn sawl rhan o Gymru. Beth fydd cyfraniad ysgol glinigol y Gogledd i wella’r sefyllfa honno?

There is a shortage of dentists in many parts of Wales. How will the north Wales clinical school contribute toward improving that situation?

Jane Hutt spoken in English p. 18

Jane Hutt siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 18

Dental education and training is provided by our dental school in Cardiff. However, on Tuesday, I was pleased to launch—via the internet—a written statement on the next phase of our Welsh dental initiative. That offers more incentives for dentists to enter the national health service, and to support people’s oral healthcare needs, particularly in disadvantage areas. This will make a great difference to NHS dentistry.

Darperir addysg a hyfforddiant deintyddol gan ein hysgol ddeintyddol yng Nghaerdydd. Fodd bynnag, ddydd Mawrth, yr oeddwn yn falch o lansio—drwy’r rhyngrwyd—ddatganiad ysgrifenedig ar gam nesaf ein menter ddeintyddol i Gymru. Mae hynny’n cynnig rhagor o anogaethau i ddeintyddion ddod i’r gwasanaeth iechyd gwladol, ac i ddiwallu anghenion gofal iechyd geneuol pobl, yn enwedig mewn ardaloedd difreintiedig. Bydd hyn yn gwneud gwahaniaeth mawr i ddeintyddiaeth y GIG.

Tom Middlehurst spoken in English p. 18

Tom Middlehurst siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 18

Minister, thank you for your response to the original question; I know that you are committed to developing the facilities in north Wales. Will you take a personal interest, and meet north Wales health and social care collaborations joint policy board members to discuss the implementation?

Weinidog, diolch i chi am eich ymateb i’r cwestiwn gwreiddiol; gwn eich bod wedi ymrwymo i ddatblygu’r cyfleusterau yn y Gogledd. A wnewch ymddiddori’n bersonol, a chwrdd ag aelodau bwrdd polisi ar y cyd gogledd Cymru ar gydweithio ar iechyd a gofal cymdeithasol i drafod y camau gweithredu?

Jane Hutt spoken in English p. 19

Jane Hutt siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 19

When I went to Bangor and Wrexham to announce that we are moving forward with the strategic case, I met key members of the policy board. Gren Kershaw, the chief executive of Conwy and Denbighshire NHS Trust is taking the lead on this matter. My officials are meeting him next month, and I would be delighted to meet key members of the policy board on my next visit.

Pan euthum i Fangor a Wrecsam i gyhoeddi ein bod yn symud ymlaen â’r achos strategol, cyfarfûm ag aelodau allweddol o’r bwrdd polisi. Gren Kershaw, prif weithredwr Ymddiriedolaeth GIG Conwy a Sir Ddinbych sy’n arwain ar y mater hwn. Bydd fy swyddogion yn cwrdd ag ef y mis nesaf, a byddwn wrth fy modd yn cwrdd ag aelodau allweddol o’r bwrdd polisi ar fy ymweliad nesaf.

John Griffiths spoken in English p. 19

John Griffiths siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 19

What is the current position regarding the University of Wales College of Medicine’s proposal for a clinical school at the Royal Gwent Hospital, thereby recognising that hospital’s significant contribution to medical training over many years?

Beth yw’r sefyllfa bresennol ynghylch cynnig Coleg Meddygaeth Prifysgol Cymru ar gyfer ysgol glinigol yn Ysbyty Brenhinol Gwent, gan gydnabod drwy hynny gyfraniad sylweddol yr ysbyty hwnnw at hyfforddiant meddygol dros flynyddoedd lawer?

Dafydd Elis-Thomas The Presiding Officer spoken in English p. 19

Dafydd Elis-Thomas Y Llywydd siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 19

Order. I am afraid that the former Gwent region is not yet in north Wales.

Trefn. Mae arnaf ofn nad yw cyn ranbarth Gwent eto’n rhan o ogledd Cymru.

John Griffiths spoken in English p. 19

John Griffiths siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 19

My supplementary refers to the same overall strategy and programme, Llywydd.

Mae fy nghwestiwn atodol yn cyfeirio at yr un strategaeth a rhaglen gyffredinol, Lywydd.

Jane Hutt spoken in English p. 19

Jane Hutt siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 19

Expanding medical education throughout Wales includes the former Gwent area. We will meet soon with the Gwent Healthcare NHS Trust and the University of Wales College of Medicine to consider the outline case for a new clinical school at the Royal Gwent Hospital, Newport.

Mae ehangu addysg feddygol ledled Cymru’n cynnwys cyn ardal Gwent. Byddwn yn cwrdd cyn hir ag Ymddiriedolaeth GIG Gofal Iechyd Gwent a Choleg Meddygaeth Prifysgol Cymru i ystyried yr achos amlinellol dros ysgol glinigol newydd yn Ysbyty Brenhinol Gwent, Casnewydd.

Llawdriniaethau i Dynnu Tonsiliau

Tonsillectomies Performed in Wales

Q3 Geraint Davies spoken in English p. 19

C3 Geraint Davies siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 19

Will the Minister make a statement on the numbers of tonsillectomies performed in Wales? (OAQ16578)

A wnaiff y Gweinidog ddatganiad am nifer y llawdriniaethau i dynnu tonsiliau yng Nghymru? (OAQ16578)

Jane Hutt spoken in English p. 19

Jane Hutt siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 19

Between January and November 2001, NHS trust doctors in Wales performed 2,022 operations on tonsils.

Rhwng Ionawr a Thachwedd 2001, gwnaeth meddygon ymddiriedolaethau GIG Cymru 2,022 o lawdriniaethau ar donsiliau.

Geraint Davies spoken in English p. 19

Geraint Davies siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 19

Several constituents have contacted me concerning tonsillectomy operations that were postponed due to surgeons’ concerns over single-use operating instruments. What was the outcome of the review of the use of such instruments in Wales?

Mae nifer o’m hetholwyr wedi cysylltu â mi ynghylch llawdriniaethau i dynnu tonsiliau a ohiriwyd oherwydd pryderon llawfeddygon ynghylch offer llawdriniaeth i’w defnyddio un waith. Beth oedd canlyniad yr adolygiad o’r defnydd o offer felly yng Nghymru?

Jane Hutt spoken in English p. 20

Jane Hutt siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 20

As Assembly Members know, we spent £1 million last year on the provision of single-use instruments because of concerns about the possibility of associated new variant Creutzfeldt-Jakob disease contamination, and the clinical risk associated with reusable instruments. On 13 March, Dr Ruth Hall met her professional advisers and representatives of ear, nose and throat surgeons, and she agreed to continue our policy. Using single-use instruments is the appropriate way forward until a full audit has been undertaken.

Fel y gŵyr Aelodau’r Cynulliad, gwariasom £1 miliwn y llynedd ar ddarparu offer defnydd un waith oherwydd y pryderon am y posibiliad o heintiad gan amrywiolyn newydd clefyd Creutzfeldt-Jakob, a’r risg clinigol sy’n gysylltiedig ag offer ailddefnyddiadwy. Ar 14 Mawrth, cyfarfu Dr Ruth Hall â’i hymgynghorwyr proffesiynol a chynrychiolwyr llawfeddygon y glust, y trwyn a’r gwddf, a chytunodd i barhau â’n polisi. Defnyddio offer sydd i’w defnyddio un waith yw’r ffordd fwyaf priodol ymlaen hyd nes y gwneir archwiliad llawn.

Peter Black spoken in English p. 20

Peter Black siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 20

Given the impact on waiting times and waiting lists of having to use these disposable instruments, is there any way that we can increase and improve their supply, possibly by considering manufacturing them in Wales?

O ystyried yr effaith ar amseroedd aros a rhestrau aros o orfod defnyddio’r offer tafladwy hyn, a oes modd o gwbl inni gynyddu a gwella’r cyflenwad ohonynt, efallai drwy ystyried eu gweithgynhyrchu yng Nghymru?

Jane Hutt spoken in English p. 20

Jane Hutt siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 20

Supplying single-use instruments was difficult initially, but that has now been resolved. Some trusts in Wales are using the single-use instruments successfully for tonsillectomies. We must consider ways to support those waiting for tonsillectomies. For example, long-term antibiotics are offered for recurrent tonsillitis. Trusts where surgeons have single-use instruments are doing what they can to deal with the backlog of need.

Yr oedd yn anodd cyflenwi offer defnydd un waith ar y dechrau, ond mae hynny wedi’i ddatrys bellach. Mae rhai ymddiriedolaethau yng Nghymru’n defnyddio’r offer defnydd un waith yn llwyddiannus i dynnu tonsiliau. Rhaid inni ystyried dulliau o gynorthwyo’r rhai sy’n disgwyl i gael tynnu eu tonsiliau. Er enghraifft, cynigir cyffuriau gwrth-fiotig tymor hir ar gyfer tonsilitis. Mae ymddiriedolaethau lle y mae gan y llawfeddygon offer defnydd un waith yn gwneud hynny a allant i ddelio â’r ôl-groniad galw.

Mesur GIG Cymru

NHS Wales Bill

Q4 Alun Pugh spoken in English p. 20

C4 Alun Pugh siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 20

Will the Minister make a statement on the progress of the NHS Wales Bill? (OAQ16488)

A wnaiff y Gweinidog ddatganiad am hynt Mesur GIG Cymru? (OAQ16488)

Jane Hutt spoken in English p. 20

Jane Hutt siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 20

The Queen’s Speech announced that legislation relating to the NHS in Wales would be prepared during this parliamentary session. My officials are working with their counterparts in the Wales Office to ensure that the Bill is published as soon as possible.

Yn Araith y Frenhines cyhoeddwyd y byddid yn paratoi deddfwriaeth sy’n ymwneud â’r GIG yng Nghymru yn ystod y sesiwn seneddol hon. Mae fy swyddogion yn gweithio gyda’u cymheiriaid yn Swyddfa Cymru i sicrhau y caiff y mesur ei gyhoeddi cyn gynted ag y bo modd.

Alun Pugh spoken in English p. 21

Alun Pugh siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 21

You will have read the north Wales director of public health’s report, where he says that interventions to reduce coronary heart disease cannot be delivered by the NHS alone. He calls for legislative change. You have the precious opportunity of a legislative slot in Parliament for an NHS Wales-only Bill. Will you seize that opportunity to reduce the death toll in Wales through coronary heart disease and cancer, or will the Bill be exclusively concerned with administrative changes?

Byddwch wedi darllen adroddiad cyfarwyddwr iechyd cyhoeddus gogledd Cymru, lle y dywed na all y GIG yn unig gyflawni ymyriadau i leihau clefyd coronaidd y galon. Mae’n galw am newid deddfwriaethol. Mae gennych gyfle gwerthfawr ar ffurf amser deddfwriaethol yn y Senedd ar gyfer Mesur GIG i Gymru’n unig. A wnewch achub ar y cyfle hwnnw i leihau nifer y marwolaethau yng Nghymru oherwydd clefyd coronaidd y galon a chanser, neu a fydd y Mesur yn ymwneud yn gyfan gwbl â newidiadau gweinyddol?

Jane Hutt spoken in English p. 21

Jane Hutt siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 21

That is an important point. As I outlined in my letter to members of the Health and Social Services Committee last July, the new Bill includes establishing community health councils and the creation of a new body to ensure continuity in the functions of the abolished Welsh National Board for Nursing, Midwifery and Health Visiting. It also includes the creation of a Wales centre for health. That will be an important and powerful independent centre, backed by legislation, to promote the health of the people of Wales, and it will deal with addressing coronary heart disease. I also add that I am delighted that the Government will support the Bill to ban tobacco advertising. That will make a great difference in reducing deaths in Wales from cancer and heart disease as a result of smoking.

Mae hynny’n bwynt pwysig. Fel yr amlinellais yn fy llythyr at aelodau’r Pwyllgor Iechyd a Gwasanaethau Cymdeithasol fis Gorffennaf diwethaf, mae’r Mesur newydd yn cynnwys sefydlu cynghorau iechyd cymuned a chreu corff newydd i sicrhau parhad swyddogaethau Bwrdd Cenedlaethol Cymru dros Nyrsio, Bydwreigiaeth a Gwasanaethau Ymwelwyr Iechyd ar ôl ei ddiddymu. Mae hefyd yn cynnwys creu canolfan iechyd i Gymru. Bydd honno’n ganolfan annibynnol bwysig a phwerus, wedi’i hategu gan ddeddfwriaeth, i hyrwyddo iechyd pobl Cymru, a bydd yn ymwneud â rhoi sylw i glefyd coronaidd y galon. Ychwanegaf hefyd fy mod wrth fy modd y bydd y Llywodraeth yn cefnogi’r Mesur i wahardd hysbysebu tybaco. Bydd hynny’n gwneud gwahaniaeth mawr o ran lleihau nifer y marwolaethau yng Nghymru oherwydd canser a chlefyd y galon o ganlyniad i ysmygu.

David Melding spoken in English p. 21

David Melding siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 21

We have waited nearly a year for this phantom draft Bill to be published. I believe that publishing Bills in draft form was conceived to allow subordinate institutions, such as the Assembly, a long time to consider primary legislation as it was formulated. Are you confident that we will be given due time to examine this Bill when it is eventually published?

Yr ydym wedi disgwyl ymron i flwyddyn am gyhoeddi’r Mesur drafft lledrithiol hwn. Credaf mai’r bwriad wrth gyhoeddi Mesurau ar ffurf ddrafft oedd caniatáu amser hir i sefydliadau isradd, fel y Cynulliad, ystyried deddfwriaeth sylfaenol wrth ei llunio. A ydych yn ffyddiog y cawn amser dyladwy i archwilio’r Mesur hwn pan gyhoeddir ef o’r diwedd?

Jane Hutt spoken in English p. 21

Jane Hutt siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 21

It is early enough in the morning, David, for you to continue to stir up the legislative programme. You know that the Bill is on its way. It is due to be published after Easter, and then there will be full consultation with the Assembly and its stakeholders. In doing so, we will be breaking new ground. I have enabled the Health and Social Services Committee to discuss the clauses of the NHS Reform Bill.

Mae’n ddigon cynnar yn y bore, David, ichi barhau i gorddi’r rhaglen ddeddfwriaethol. Fe wyddoch fod y Mesur ar ei ffordd. Bwriedir ei gyhoeddi ar ôl y Pasg, ac wedyn ymgynghorir yn llawn â’r Cynulliad a’i gyfranogion. Wrth wneud hynny, byddwn yn torri tir newydd. Yr wyf wedi galluogi’r Pwyllgor Iechyd a Gwasanaethau Cymdeithasol i drafod cymalau Mesur Diwygio’r GIG.

Rhestrau Aros

Waiting Lists

Q5 Ieuan Wyn Jones The Leader of the Opposition spoken in English p. 22

C5 Ieuan Wyn Jones Arweinydd yr Wrthblaid siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 22

Will the Minister make a brief statement on her progress in tackling waiting lists? (OAQ16499)

A wnaiff y Gweinidog ddatganiad byr am y camau ymlaen y mae wedi’u cymryd o safbwynt delio â rhestrau aros? (OAQ16499)

Jane Hutt spoken in English p. 22

Jane Hutt siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 22

In July 2001, I announced the waiting times strategy, which shifted the emphasis from waiting lists to waiting times. The waiting time for cardiac treatment is being reduced to 12 months, and for orthopaedic treatment it is being reduced to 18 months. All trusts are working to reduce the maximum waiting time for cataract treatment to four months, and the numbers are falling.

Yng Ngorffennaf 2001, cyhoeddais y strategaeth amseroedd aros, a symudodd y pwyslais oddi ar restrau aros ac at amseroedd aros. Gostyngir yr amser aros am driniaeth gardïaidd i 12 mis, ac i 18 mis ar gyfer triniaeth orthopaedig. Mae’r holl ymddiriedolaethau’n ymdrechu i leihau’r amser aros hwyaf am driniaeth cataractau i bedwar mis, ac mae’r niferoedd yn gostwng.

Ieuan Wyn Jones spoken in English p. 22

Ieuan Wyn Jones siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 22

I note that you did not remind us in your reply of the pledges that the Labour Party made in its 1999 election manifesto. I am sure that you will recall those pledges: the lists of those waiting over 18 months for in-patient treatment would be eliminated, along with the lists of those waiting over six months for out-patient treatment. Are you aware that the latest figures show that 4,000 people are waiting over 18 months for in-patient treatment—the figure has doubled since 1999—and that the figure for those waiting for out-patient treatment has trebled to 70,000 people. Do you expect to meet that election pledge by 2003, or do you expect that Unison members will be asked to stop paying their levy to the Labour Party, as John Marek has now said that postal workers should do?

Nodaf na wnaethoch ein hatgoffa yn eich ateb am yr addewidion a wnaeth y Blaid Lafur yn ei maniffesto etholiad yn 1999. Yr wyf yn sicr y byddwch yn cofio’r addewidion hynny: dileu’r rhestrau o’r rhai sy’n disgwyl dros 18 mis am driniaeth cleifion mewnol, ynghyd â’r rhestr o’r rhai sy’n aros dros chwe mis am driniaeth cleifion allanol. A ydych yn ymwybodol bod y ffigurau diweddaraf yn dangos bod 4,000 o bobl wedi disgwyl dros 18 mis am driniaeth cleifion mewnol—mae’r ffigur wedi dyblu ers 1999—a bod y ffigur ar gyfer y rhai sy’n disgwyl am driniaeth cleifion allanol wedi treblu i 70,000 o bobl. A ydych yn disgwyl cyflawni’r addewid etholiad honno erbyn 2003, neu a ydych yn disgwyl y gofynnir i aelodau Unsain roi’r gorau i dalu eu cyfraniad i’r Blaid Lafur, fel y mae John Marek wedi dweud y dylai’r gweithwyr post ei wneud?

Jane Hutt spoken in English p. 22

Jane Hutt siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 22

This is obviously party-political week. [Interruption.]

Mae’n amlwg mai wythnos gwleidyddiaeth blaid yw hon. [Torri ar draws.]

Dafydd Elis-Thomas The Presiding Officer spoken in English p. 22

Dafydd Elis-Thomas Y Llywydd siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 22

Order. This question is not about the postal workers.

Trefn. Nid yw’r cwestiwn hwn yn ymwneud â’r gweithwyr post.

Jane Hutt spoken in English p. 22

Jane Hutt siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 22

I am glad that my pledges as Minister for Health and Social Services are being met. All parties embraced the waiting times strategy when it was discussed in our Health and Social Services Committee. Everyone recognises the hard work of staff in dealing with and meeting the increasing demands on out-patient treatment and the increasing pressures because of the need for secondary care.

Yr wyf yn falch bod fy addewidion fel y Gweinidog dros Iechyd a Gwasanaethau Cymdeithasol yn cael eu cyflawni. Croesawodd pob plaid y strategaeth amseroedd aros pan drafodwyd hi yn ein Pwyllgor Iechyd a Gwasanaethau Cymdeithasol. Mae pawb yn cydnabod gwaith caled y staff wrth drafod ac ateb y galwadau cynyddol am driniaeth cleifion allanol a’r pwysau cynyddol oherwydd yr angen am ofal eilaidd.

William Graham spoken in English p. 23

William Graham siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 23

What advice can you give to one of my constituents who has been told that he will wait 158 weeks to see a consultant and that his operation will probably not take place for five years after that? Frankly, the platitudes that you offer today are no consolation. What practical measures do you propose?

Pa gyngor y gallwch ei roi i un o’m hetholwyr y dywedwyd wrtho y bydd yn aros 158 wythnos i weld ymgynghorydd a’i bod yn debygol na fydd ei lawdriniaeth yn digwydd cyn pen pum mlynedd ar ôl hynny? A bod yn onest, nid yw’r ystrydebau a gynigiwch heddiw’n gysur o gwbl. Pa gamau ymarferol yr ydych yn bwriadu eu cymryd?

Jane Hutt spoken in English p. 23

Jane Hutt siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 23

Unfortunately, your constituent is not being given the correct information. You know that the waiting times strategy states—I deal with many letters, and I will look at this case if you forward it to me—that the number of people waiting over 12 months for cardiac treatment is falling. We are confident that no-one will wait more than 12 months from next month. In terms of orthopaedic treatment—I do not know which speciality you are referring to—the number of patients waiting over 18 months has fallen dramatically. Dr Brian Gibbons is steering the group that is considering the waiting times strategy targets for next year and how we can reduce other unacceptable waits. The Assembly has agreed that we need to consider clinical priority and waiting times and not the crude waiting lists which do not meet the needs of patients requiring the most urgent surgery.

Gwaetha’r modd, nid yw’ch etholwr yn cael y wybodaeth gywir. Fe wyddoch fod y strategaeth amseroedd aros yn datgan—yr wyf yn delio â llawer o lythyrau, ac edrychaf ar yr achos hwn os anfonwch ef ataf—fod y nifer sy’n disgwyl dros 12 mis am driniaeth gardïaidd yn gostwng. Yr ydym yn ffyddiog na fydd neb yn disgwyl mwy na 12 mis o’r mis nesaf ymlaen. O ran triniaeth orthopaedig—ni wn pa arbenigaeth yr ydych yn cyfeirio ati—mae nifer y cleifion sy’n disgwyl dros 18 mis wedi disgyn yn drawiadol. Dr Brian Gibbons sy’n llywio’r grŵp sy’n ystyried targedau’r strategaeth amseroedd aros ar gyfer y flwyddyn nesaf a sut y gallwn leihau cyfnodau aros annerbyniol eraill. Mae’r Cynulliad wedi cytuno bod angen inni ystyried blaenoriaeth glinigol ac amseroedd aros ac nid y rhestrau aros bras nad ydynt yn diwallu anghenion y cleifion y mae arnynt angen y llawfeddygaeth fwyaf brys.

Ffitrwydd Corfforol Plant

Physical Fitness of Children

Q6 Pauline Jarman spoken in English p. 23

C6 Pauline Jarman siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 23

How does the Minister intend to improve the physical fitness of children in Wales? (OAQ16509)

Sut y mae’r Gweinidog yn bwriadu gwella ffitrwydd corfforol plant yng Nghymru? (OAQ16509)

Jane Hutt spoken in English p. 23

Jane Hutt siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 23

The Welsh Assembly Government’s work to improve young people’s physical fitness is being underpinned by the healthy active lifestyles taskforce, which aims to develop a range of measures to increase physical activity levels in Wales.

Ategir gwaith Llywodraeth Cynulliad Cymru i wella ffitrwydd corfforol pobl ifanc gan y tasglu ffyrdd o fyw bywiog iach, sy’n bwriadu datblygu amrywiaeth o fesurau i gynyddu gweithgaredd corfforol yng Nghymru.

Pauline Jarman spoken in English p. 24

Pauline Jarman siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 24

A number of factors affect children’s physical fitness: lack of exercise; poor diet, and a failure to identify early signs of illness. What will you do to ensure that young people’s health advice and advocacy clinics are available throughout Wales?

Mae nifer o ffactorau’n effeithio ar ffitrwydd corfforol plant: diffyg ymarfer; deiet gwael, a methiant i ganfod arwyddion cynnar o salwch. Beth a wnewch i sicrhau bod clinigau cyngor ac eiriolaeth iechyd pobl ifanc ar gael ledled Cymru?

Jane Hutt spoken in English p. 24

Jane Hutt siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 24

These are important issues, which are being addressed through our healthy schools network, in which over 300 schools are now involved. My colleague, Jane Davidson, and I have launched many of these networks across Wales, which are doing imaginative work. When young children tell me that they have voluntarily given up pop and crisps for milk and fruit, we know that it is our young people and children who will lead the way in changing their own health and prospects. It also links with the work of Jenny Randerson and Jane Davidson because we must ensure that the PE and school sport taskforce action plan takes us forward. Physical activity, and the nutrition strategy that we are developing, will address these issues.

Mae’r rhain yn faterion pwysig, sy’n derbyn sylw drwy ein rhwydwaith ysgolion iach, y mae dros 300 o ysgolion yn cymryd rhan ynddi bellach. Mae fy nghyd-Aelod, Jane Davidson, a minnau wedi lansio llawer o’r rhwydweithiau hyn ledled Cymru, ac maent yn gwneud gwaith llawn dychymyg. Pan ddywed plant ifanc wrthyf eu bod wedi rhoi’r gorau o’u gwirfodd i yfed pop a bwyta creision ac yn cael llaeth a ffrwythau yn eu lle, fe wyddom mai’n pobl ifanc a’n plant a fydd yn arwain y ffordd wrth newid eu hiechyd a’u rhagolygon eu hunain. Mae hefyd yn gysylltiedig â gwaith Jenny Randerson a Jane Davidson oherwydd rhaid inni sicrhau bod cynllun gweithredu’r tasglu addysg gorfforol a chwaraeon ysgol yn mynd â ni yn ein blaen. Bydd gweithgaredd corfforol, a’r strategaeth maethu yr ydym yn ei datblygu, yn delio â’r materion hyn.

Alun Pugh spoken in English p. 24

Alun Pugh siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 24

Do you agree with me that the safe routes to school initiative is excellent, but that it is too small? Will you raise this issue with the Minister for Finance, Local Government and Communities?

A ydych yn cytuno â mi bod y fenter llwybrau diogel i’r ysgol yn rhagorol, ond ei bod yn rhy fach? A wnewch godi’r mater hwn gyda’r Gweinidog dros Gyllid, Llywodraeth Leol a Chymunedau?

Jane Hutt spoken in English p. 24

Jane Hutt siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 24

The safe routes to school initiative is a key part of enabling children to walk to school and thus take exercise. It was introduced in 1999-2000, when £800,000 was allocated. Last year, £1.4 million was allocated to 48 schools. That investment is increasing year on year. Twenty-two projects are receiving support and this is an issue that I know the Minister for Environment wants to take forward.

Mae’r fenter llwybrau diogel i’r ysgol yn allweddol o ran galluogi plant i gerdded i’r ysgol, gan gymryd rhan felly mewn ymarfer corff. Fe’i cyflwynwyd yn 1999-2000, pan ddyrannwyd £800,000. Y llynedd, dyrannwyd £1.4 miliwn i 48 ysgol. Mae’r buddsoddiad hwnnw’n cynyddu flwyddyn ar ôl blwyddyn. Mae 22 prosiect yn derbyn cymorth ac mae hyn yn fater y gwn fod y Gweinidog dros yr Amgylchedd yn dymuno ei hyrwyddo.

David Davies spoken in English p. 24

David Davies siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 24

If you are determined to ensure that young people are physically fit, can you tell us why, under this Government, school playing fields are still being sold off?

Os ydych yn benderfynol o sicrhau bod pobl ifanc yn gorfforol ffit, a allwch ddweud wrthym pam y parheir i werthu caeau chwarae ysgolion o dan y Llywodraeth hon?

Jane Hutt spoken in English p. 25

Jane Hutt siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 25

That is absolute cheek. In the 1980s, county councillors spent a great amount of time saving our school playing fields. It is vital that we develop our PE and school sport taskforce and use the new opportunities fund to develop a range of opportunities for children and young people, in particular in our most disadvantaged areas. Many have not had access to school playing fields and those are the issues that we really need to address.

Haerllugrwydd llwyr yw hynny. Yn y 1980au, treuliodd cynghorwyr sir lawer iawn o amser yn achub caeau chwarae’n hysgolion. Mae’n hollbwysig inni ddatblygu’n tasglu addysg gorfforol a chwaraeon ysgol a defnyddio’r gronfa cyfleoedd newydd i ddatblygu amrywiaeth o gyfleoedd i blant a phobl ifanc, yn enwedig yn ein hardaloedd mwyaf difreintiedig. Mae llawer heb gael defnyddio caeau chwarae ysgolion a dyna’r materion y mae gwir angen inni fynd i’r afael â hwy.

Darparu Gwasanaethau Ysbyty Newydd yn Ardal Caerdydd

Provision of New Hospital Services in the Cardiff Area

Q7 Owen John Thomas spoken in English p. 25

C7 Owen John Thomas siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 25

Will the Minister make a statement on the provision of new hospital services in the Cardiff area, and the future use of redundant buildings at the Hamadryad and Sully hospitals? (OAQ16532)

A wnaiff y Gweinidog ddatganiad ar ddarparu gwasanaethau ysbyty newydd yn ardal Caerdydd, ac ar y defnydd a wneir o adeiladau gwag ysbytai Hamadryad a Sili yn y dyfodol? (OAQ16532)

Jane Hutt spoken in English p. 25

Jane Hutt siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 25

The new St David’s Hospital opened on 1 March 2002. The health authority, Cardiff and Vale NHS Trust and the local health groups are currently formulating their service plans for eastern Cardiff. The trust and health authority has yet to decide what use—if any—will be made of the former Sully and Royal Hamadryad sites. They have not yet been declared surplus to requirements by the trust.

Agorodd yr Ysbyty Dewi Sant newydd ar 1 Mawrth 2002. Mae’r awdurdod iechyd, Ymddiriedolaeth GIG Caerdydd a’r Fro a’r grwpiau iechyd lleol yn llunio’u cynlluniau gwasanaeth ar gyfer dwyrain Caerdydd ar hyn o bryd. Nid yw’r ymddiriedolaeth a’r awdurdod iechyd wedi penderfynu eto pa ddefnydd—os o gwbl—a wneir o gyn safleoedd ysbytai Sili a’r Hamadryad Brenhinol. Nid yw’r ymddiriedolaeth wedi datgan eu bod yn ddiangen eto.

Owen John Thomas spoken in English p. 25

Owen John Thomas siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 25

We are inundated by several hundred hospital beds in buildings owned by Bro Taf Health Authority that are no longer being used at Cardiff Royal Infirmary, Hamadryad, Lansdowne and Sully hospitals. There should, therefore, be no bed crisis in this area, yet waiting lists are getting longer. One repeatedly hears of patients being sent home too soon after treatment. Is it not possible to convert some of these buildings for use as transitional, convalescence facilities, perhaps with a lower level of nursing and medical staff, to reduce the problem of bedblocking at the point of treatment?

Mae gennym rai cannoedd o welyau ysbytai’n ormod mewn adeiladau sy’n eiddo i Awdurdod Iechyd Bro Taf nas defnyddir bellach yn Ysbyty Brenhinol Caerdydd ac ysbytai Hamadryad, Lansdowne a Sili. Gan hynny, ni ddylai argyfwng gwelyau fodoli yn yr ardal hon, ac eto mae’r rhestrau aros yn mynd yn hwy. Clywir dro ar ôl tro am gleifion a anfonwyd gartref yn rhy fuan ar ôl derbyn triniaeth. Onid oes modd addasu rhai o’r adeiladau hyn i’w defnyddio fel cyfleusterau adfer, trosiannol, gyda lefel is o staff nyrsio a meddygol efallai, i leihau problem blocio gwelyau ym man y driniaeth?

Jane Hutt spoken in English p. 25

Jane Hutt siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 25

I was pleased to visit the new 100-bed community facility at St David’s Hospital a few weeks ago to see what will be achieved there. The promised west wing beds, funded by the health service, are now opening. The health service locally is dealing with the issues of delayed transfer of care from hospital, which is particularly helped by the extra £7 million that I announced last week to deal with this issue. Also, the six-weeks free home care comes into force on 1 April, which will help those people who are ready to go home with the support package that they need from the community.

Yr oeddwn yn falch o ymweld â’r cyfleuster cymunedol 100 gwely newydd yn Ysbyty Dewi Sant ychydig wythnosau’n ôl i weld beth a gyflawnir yno. Mae’r gwelyau a addawyd yn yr adain orllewinol, a ariannwyd gan y gwasanaeth iechyd, yn agor yn awr. Mae’r gwasanaeth iechyd yn yr ardal honno’n delio â materion sy’n ymwneud â gohirio trosglwyddo gofal o ysbytai, a rhoddir cymorth penodol at hynny drwy’r £7 miliwn ychwanegol a gyhoeddais yr wythnos diwethaf i ddelio â’r mater hwn. Hefyd, daw’r gofal chwe wythnos am ddim yn y cartref i rym ar 1 Ebrill, a fydd o gymorth i’r rhai sy’n barod i fynd gartref gyda’r pecyn cymorth y mae arnynt ei angen gan y gymuned.

David Melding spoken in English p. 26

David Melding siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 26

Will you back the Cardiff and Vale NHS Trust if it refuses to be bullied by the Home Office into leasing Sully hospital to be used as an asylum centre?

A wnewch gefnogi Ymddiriedolaeth GIG Caerdydd a’r Fro os yw’n gwrthod cymryd ei bwlio gan y Swyddfa Gartref i osod ysbyty Sili ar brydles i’w ddefnyddio’n ganolfan loches?

Jane Hutt spoken in English p. 26

Jane Hutt siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 26

Sully hospital was deemed to be unfit for our psychiatric patients. The health advisory service report enabled us to take the difficult decision to close Sully hospital to patients after many years of providing healthcare in this area. Sully hospital is not safe or fit for asylum seekers either, and I made my views clear to Lord Rooker on this matter.

Barnwyd bod ysbyty Sili yn anaddas i’n cleifion seiciatrig. Adroddiad y gwasanaeth ymgynghorol iechyd a’n galluogodd i wneud y penderfyniad anodd i gau ysbyty Sili i gleifion ar ôl blynyddoedd lawer o ddarparu gofal iechyd yn yr ardal hon. Nid yw ysbyty Sili yn ddiogel nac yn addas i geiswyr lloches chwaith, ac eglurais fy marn i’r Arglwydd Rooker ar y mater hwn.

Cwestiynau i’r Gweinidog dros Addysg a Dysgu Gydol Oes

Questions to the Minister for Education and Lifelong Learning

Sefydliadau Addysg Uwch

Higher Education Instituions

Q1 Val Lloyd spoken in English p. 26

C1 Val Lloyd siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 26

Will the Minister make a statement on the benefits of the recent research assessment exercise for higher education institutions in Wales? (OAQ16483)

A wnaiff y Gweinidog ddatganiad am yr Asesiad Ymchwil diweddar ar gyfer Sefydliadau Addysg Uwch yng Nghymru? (OAQ16483)

Jane Davidson The Minister for Education and Lifelong Learning spoken in English p. 26

Jane Davidson Y Gweinidog dros Addysg a Dysgu Gydol Oes siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 26

The outstanding advances reflected in the RAE 2001 greatly enhance our claims on the quality of Wales’s academic research base. On 22 January, I announced that I was making a one-off payment of an additional £6 million available in recognition of the higher education sector’s RAE successes. Such excellence will significantly boost Wales’s attractiveness to the best-quality teaching and research staff, and the highest calibre of students. It will also appreciably strengthen our higher education institutions’ prospects for attracting additional research investment to Wales.

Mae’r camau eithriadol ymlaen a ddangosir yn Asesiad Ymchwil 2001 yn hwb mawr i’n honiadau ynghylch ansawdd sylfaen ymchwil academaidd Cymru. Ar 22 Ionawr, cyhoeddais fy mod yn darparu taliad unigol o £6 miliwn ychwanegol er mwyn cydnabod llwyddiannau’r sector addysg uwch yn yr Asesiad Ymchwil. Bydd rhagoriaeth o’r fath yn rhoi hwb sylweddol i allu Cymru i ddenu staff dysgu ac ymchwil o’r ansawdd gorau, a myfyrwyr o’r safon orau. Bydd hefyd yn gwella rhagolygon ein sefydliadau addysg uwch yn sylweddol wrth ddenu buddsoddiad ymchwil ychwanegol i Gymru.

Val Lloyd spoken in English p. 27

Val Lloyd siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 27

Thank you for that full reply. Not all HE staff are entered into this exercise. There is selection by individual institutions, so percentages vary across institutions. However, the more staff that are entered means that the chance of students being taught by research active lecturers is higher than average. Will you comment on the effects of such differentials on HE in Wales? Would you consider setting parameters for entry into this exercise so that comparisons can be more meaningful?

Diolch i chi am yr ateb llawn hwnnw. Nid yw’r holl staff addysg uwch yn cael eu rhoi yn yr asesiad hwn. Ceir dethol gan sefydliadau unigol, felly mae’r canrannau’n amrywio rhwng y sefydliadau. Fodd bynnag, po fwyaf o staff a roddir ynddo, mwyaf tebygol yw hi y bydd cyfle’r myfyrwyr i gael eu haddysgu gan ddarlithwyr sy’n ymwneud ag ymchwil yn uwch na’r cyffredin. A wnewch sylw ar effeithiau gwahanrediadau o’r fath ar addysg uwch yng Nghymru? A wnewch ystyried pennu paramedrau ar gyfer mynediad i’r asesiad hwn fel y gall y cymariaethau fod yn fwy ystyrlon?

Jane Davidson spoken in English p. 27

Jane Davidson siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 27

The RAE sets its own standards for entry into the exercise. The important thing is that the new strategy, which we announced on 7 March, focuses on creating networks of excellence so that we can see far more effective collaboration between our institutions in Wales to build on the tremendous successes of this year.

Mae’r Asesiad Ymchwil yn gosod ei safonau ei hun ar gyfer mynediad i’r asesiad. Y peth pwysig yw bod y strategaeth newydd, a gyhoeddasom ar 7 Mawrth, yn canolbwyntio ar greu rhwydweithiau rhagoriaeth fel y gallwn weld cydweithio llawer mwy effeithiol rhwng ein sefydliadau yng Nghymru i adeiladu ar sail y llwyddiannau aruthrol a gafwyd eleni.

Phil Williams spoken in English p. 27

Phil Williams siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 27

I declare an interest as a university professor. A large part of university income is determined by the RAE in a purely mechanistic way, using a non-linear formula based on the one used in England. The formula was deliberately designed to award most funding to a few large departments and discourage small departments. Your welcome strategy to encourage specific areas of excellence in each of the clusters will require a radically different approach. What talks have you had with the Higher Education Funding Council for Wales and Higher Education Wales on replacing the present mechanistic formula, and when will a better, strategic approach be introduced?

Datganaf fuddiant fel athro prifysgol. Penderfynir rhan fawr o incwm prifysgolion gan yr Asesiad Ymchwil mewn modd cwbl fecanistig, drwy ddefnyddio fformiwla aflinol sy’n seiliedig ar yr un a ddefnyddir yn Lloegr. Cynlluniwyd y fformiwla’n fwriadol i ddyfarnu’r mwyaf o arian i ychydig o adrannau mawr yn hytrach nag i adrannau bach. Bydd eich strategaeth dderbyniol i hybu meysydd rhagoriaeth penodol ym mhob un o’r clystyrau’n gofyn dull gweithredu sylfaenol wahanol. Pa drafodaethau a gawsoch gyda Chyngor Cyllido Addysg Uwch Cymru ac Addysg Uwch Cymru ar ddisodli’r fformiwla fecanistig bresennol, a pha bryd y caiff dull gweithredu strategol, gwell ei gyflwyno?

Jane Davidson spoken in English p. 27

Jane Davidson siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 27

That is exactly what we have done with our strategy; we have introduced the strategic approach, which focuses on the Committee’s recommendation on developing the collaborative framework. I am sure that you would agree that we must bring more research funding into Wales. There were two big announcements recently relating to research funding, and I pay tribute to those concerned. First, the Institute of Medical Genetics, based at the University of Wales College of Medicine, enjoys an international reputation for research, clinical and teaching practice and by displaying strength not found elsewhere in the UK, it competed successfully to attract support for the new gene park. That was a collaborative venture. Secondly, strength in the field of material physics research has enabled the University of Wales, Aberystwyth to attract research equipment awards totalling £2 million from the research councils, EU industry and HEFCW. Those are the kind of initiatives on which we want to build and with which we will market Wales. Our strategic approach will build on that kind of excellence.

Dyna’n union yr hyn a wnaethom gyda’n strategaeth; yr ydym wedi cyflwyno’r dull gweithredu hwnnw, sy’n canolbwyntio ar argymhelliad y Pwyllgor ar ddatblygu’r fframwaith cydweithredol. Yr wyf yn sicr y cytunech fod yn rhaid inni ddod â rhagor o arian ymchwil i Gymru. Bu dau gyhoeddiad mawr yn ddiweddar ynghylch arian ymchwil, a thalaf deyrnged i’r rhai a oedd yn gysylltiedig. Yn gyntaf, mae gan y Sefydliad Geneteg Feddygol, sydd wedi’i leoli yng Ngholeg Meddygaeth Prifysgol Cymru, enw rhyngwladol am ei ymchwil a’i arfer clinigol ac addysgu a thrwy ddangos ei gryfder, nas ceir yn unman arall yn y DU, bu’n llwyddiannus wrth gystadlu i ennill cefnogaeth i’r parc genynnau newydd. Yr oedd honno’n fenter gydweithredol. Yn ail, mae cryfder ym maes ymchwil ffiseg faterol wedi galluogi Prifysgol Cymru, Aberystwyth i ddenu cyfanswm o £2 filiwn o ddyfarniadau offer ymchwil oddi wrth y cynghorau ymchwil, diwydiant yr UE a Chyngor Cyllido Addysg Uwch Cymru. Dyna’r math o fentrau yr ydym yn dymuno ychwanegu atynt ac y byddwn yn eu defnyddio i farchnata Cymru. Bydd ein dull gweithredu strategol yn adeiladu ar sail rhagoriaeth o’r fath.

Jonathan Morgan spoken in English p. 28

Jonathan Morgan siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 28

When we consider the recent analysis of the RAE and examine the statistics between 1996 and 2001, there has clearly been an overall improvement in the UK of around 0.80 of an RAE point. Wales has performed overall at the same level during that period, but some institutions will have improved by more than the average. I am thinking specifically of the University of Wales at Cardiff, Bangor and Aberystwyth and of the University of Glamorgan. We now need to see which departments are improving year on year and which are improving at a lower rate. How do we ensure that the success of those larger institutions spreads out to the other institutions in Wales, which also have a contribution to make in that respect?

Pan ystyriwn y dadansoddiad diweddar o’r Asesiad Ymchwil ac edrych ar yr ystadegau rhwng 1996 a 2001, mae’n amlwg bod gwelliant cyffredinol wedi bod yn y DU o tua 0.80 o bwynt Asesiad Ymchwil. Mae Cymru wedi perfformio ar yr un lefel at ei gilydd yn ystod y cyfnod hwnnw, ond bydd rhai sefydliadau wedi gwella’n fwy na’r cyffredin. Yr wyf yn meddwl yn benodol am Brifysgol Cymru yng Nghaerdydd, Bangor ac Aberystwyth ac am Brifysgol Morgannwg. Mae angen yn awr inni weld pa adrannau sy’n gwella flwyddyn ar ôl blwyddyn a pha rai sy’n gwella’n arafach. Sut y gallwn sicrhau bod llwyddiant y sefydliadau mwy hynny’n treiddio i’r sefydliadau eraill yng Nghymru, sydd hefyd â chyfraniad i’w wneud yn hynny o beth?

Jane Davidson spoken in English p. 28

Jane Davidson siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 28

Again, the answer lies in the strategy. We have had a successful RAE result in 2001. The number of four and five star departments has increased by over a third from 60 to 84. Wales is second only to Scotland in the UK. We must not take away from the success of this sector. As you have identified, it is not exclusive to a part of Wales; it is across Wales. Our strategy focuses on how to build the networks of excellence to ensure that small departments can continue climbing alongside larger ones in terms of this wonderful, internationally-recognised, world-class agenda.

Unwaith eto, mae’r ateb yn y strategaeth. Cawsom ganlyniad llwyddiannus yn yr Asesiad Ymchwil yn 2001. Bu cynnydd o un rhan o dair yn nifer yr adrannau pedair a phum seren o 60 i 84. Yr Alban yw’r unig ran o’r DU ar y blaen i Gymru. Ni ddylem fychanu llwyddiant y sector hwn. Fel yr ydych wedi nodi, nid yw’n eiddo i un rhan o Gymru’n unig; fe’i ceir ledled Cymru. Mae’n strategaeth yn canolbwyntio ar y modd i adeiladu’r rhwydweithiau rhagoriaeth hynny i sicrhau y gall yr adrannau bach ddal i ddringo ochr yn ochr â’r rhai mwy yng nghyd-destun yr agenda safon fyd-eang ryfeddol hon a gydnabyddir yn rhyngwladol.

Rhan i’r Sector Preifat mewn Darparu Addysg yn y Sector Cyhoeddus

Involvment of the Private Sector in Public Sector Education Provision

Q2 Alun Cairns spoken in English p. 29

C2 Alun Cairns siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 29

What plans does the Minister have to involve the private sector in public sector education provision? (OAQ16572)

Pa gynlluniau sydd gan y Gweinidog i roi rhan i’r sector preifat mewn darparu addysg yn y sector cyhoeddus? (OAQ16572)

Jane Davidson spoken in English p. 29

Jane Davidson siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 29

I have no plans to involve the private sector in the running of maintained schools or any other educational institutions in Wales. As I indicated in ‘A Learning Country’, I have recognised that there is a place for private partnership, which can be developed beneficially to improve education business links.

Nid oes gennyf fwriad i roi rhan i’r sector preifat yn y gwaith o redeg ysgolion a gynhelir neu unrhyw sefydliadau addysgol eraill yng Nghymru. Fel y nodais yn ‘Y Wlad sy’n Dysgu’, yr wyf wedi cydnabod bod lle i bartneriaeth breifat, y gellir ei datblygu’n fuddiol i wella’r cysylltiadau rhwng addysg a busnes.

Alun Cairns spoken in English p. 29

Alun Cairns siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 29

Discussions have taken place to establish a school in south Wales similar to Emmanuel College in Gateshead. Having received an offer of £2 million funding from industry to establish such a school, why has this not progressed further? Will you assure us that you will consider this with an open mind rather than a dogmatic attitude?

Mae trafodaethau wedi’u cynnal er mwyn sefydlu ysgol yn y De sy’n debyg i Emmanuel College yn Gateshead. Gan fod diwydiant wedi cynnig cyllid o £2 filiwn i sefydlu ysgol o’r fath, pam nad yw hyn wedi mynd ymhellach? A wnewch ein sicrhau y byddwch yn ystyried hyn â meddwl agored yn hytrach nag ymagwedd ddogmatig?

Jane Davidson spoken in English p. 29

Jane Davidson siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 29

It is interesting that you refer to the fact that the proposal was to establish a school like Emmanuel College. The Vardy Foundation—the organisation which promotes creationism—was behind that proposal. I am delighted that, in this instance, the proposal has not come to fruition because, as indicated in The Observer last week, the teaching practices of Emmanuel College, which has received £2 million from the Vardy Foundation, have been widely condemned for brain-washing and spreading fundamentalist doctrine. I am not happy to have any brain-washing or the spreading of fundamentalist doctrine in Wales.

Mae’n ddiddorol eich bod yn cyfeirio at y ffaith mai’r bwriad oedd sefydlu ysgol fel Emmanuel College. Sefydliad Vardy—y mudiad sy’n hyrwyddo creadaeth—oedd y tu ôl i’r cynnig hwnnw. Yr wyf wrth fy modd, yn yr achos hwn, nad yw’r cynnig wedi dwyn ffrwyth oherwydd, fel y dangoswyd yn The Observer yr wythnos diwethaf, mae arferion dysgu Emmanuel College, a dderbyniodd £2 filiwn oddi wrth Sefydliad Vardy, wedi’u collfarnu gan lawer am gyflyru a lledaenu athrawiaeth ffwndamentalaidd. Nid wyf yn fodlon cael unrhyw gyflyru neu ledaenu athrawiaeth ffwndamentalaidd yng Nghymru.

However, we have put £2 million on the table, which is still available to Torfaen County Borough Council, the local education authority—the proper body—to consider working in partnership on a school plus model that includes entrepreneurship, education business links, community learning and the school as a community resource. We will leave that money on the table and look forward to developing a relationship with the Confederation of British Industry on this exciting agenda. However, it will not be allowed to take over schools, or have a creationist agenda in Wales.

Fodd bynnag, yr ydym wedi cynnig £2 filiwn, sy’n dal i fod ar gael i Gyngor Bwrdeistref Sirol Tor-faen, yr awdurdod addysg lleol—y corff priodol—i ystyried gweithio mewn partneriaeth ar sail model ysgol a mwy sy’n cynnwys entrepreneuriaeth, cysylltiadau addysg busnes, dysgu cymunedol a’r ysgol fel adnodd cymunedol. Byddwn yn parhau i gynnig yr arian hwnnw ac yn edrych ymlaen at ddatblygu perthynas â Chydffederasiwn Diwydiant Prydain ynghylch yr agenda gyffrous hon. Fodd bynnag, ni chaniateir iddo gymryd ysgolion drosodd, nag i gael agenda greadaethol yng Nghymru.

Mick Bates spoken in English p. 30

Mick Bates siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 30

Pursuing that theme, are schemes being prepared to allow students, especially from disadvantaged areas, to work with the private sector to gain experience of business and enterprise?

Gan ddilyn y thema honno, a oes cynlluniau’n cael eu paratoi i ganiatáu i fyfyrwyr, yn enwedig rhai o ardaloedd difreintiedig, weithio gyda’r sector preifat i ennill profiad o fusnes a menter?

Jane Davidson spoken in English p. 30

Jane Davidson siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 30

Like you, I am a strong supporter of the entrepreneurship action plan, and we are providing many more opportunities, particularly within our schools, for exactly that kind of work. We want to examine the possibility of work-related education becoming statutory, and we will be consulting on that shortly. We want to provide opportunities for pupils to have far closer relationships with business, good quality work experience, and a far better relationship between teachers and industry in terms of experiencing each other’s working environment. We are also specifically examining work-related education as part of the Welsh baccalaureate. Therefore, we are considering active ways in which we can support education and business relationships.

Fel chithau, yr wyf yn gryf o blaid y cynllun gweithredu entrepreneuriaeth, ac yr ydym yn darparu mwy o lawer o gyfleoedd, yn enwedig yn ein hysgolion, ar gyfer gwaith o’r union fath hwnnw. Dymunwn archwilio’r posibiliad o wneud addysg gysylltiedg â gwaith yn statudol, a byddwn yn ymgynghori ar hynny cyn hir. Dymunwn ddarparu cyfleoedd i ddisgyblion gael cysylltiadau agosach o lawer â busnes, profiad gwaith o ansawdd da, a pherthynas well o lawer rhwng athrawon a diwydiant o ran profi amgylchedd gwaith y naill a’r llall. Yr ydym yn edrych yn benodol hefyd ar addysg gysylltiedig â gwaith fel rhan o’r fagloriaeth Gymreig. Felly, yr ydym yn ystyried dulliau gweithredol inni gefnogi cysylltiadau rhwng addysg a busnes.

Helen Mary Jones spoken in English p. 30

Helen Mary Jones siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 30

I am glad to hear you firmly reject any idea of the private sector running mainstream public education in Wales. Do you share my regret that your Westminster colleagues do not seem to take the same approach? Will you join your colleague John Marek in advising the unions to stop funding—

Yr wyf yn falch o glywed eich bod yn gwrthod yn bendant unrhyw syniad o redeg addysg gyhoeddus brif ffrwd yng Nghymru gan y sector preifat. A ydych yn rhannu fy ngofid nad yw’ch cyd-aelodau yn San Steffan yn meddu ar yr un agwedd, yn ôl pob golwg? A wnewch chi ymuno â’ch cyd-aelod John Marek wrth gynghori’r undebau i roi’r gorau i ariannu—

Dafydd Elis-Thomas The Presiding Officer spoken in English p. 30

Dafydd Elis-Thomas Y Llywydd siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 30

Order. The Minister has no responsibility for anything that happens in education in England.

Trefn. Nid oes gan y Gweinidog gyfrifoldeb dros ddim sy’n digwydd mewn addysg yn Lloegr.

Myfyrwyr Hŷn

Mature Students

Q3 Gwenda Thomas spoken in Welsh and English p. 31

C3 Gwenda Thomas siaradwyd yn Gymraeg ac yn Saesneg t. 31

Will the Minister make a statement on the number of mature students returning to study degree courses? (OAQ16543)

yn Saesneg A wnaiff y Gweinidog ddatganiad ar nifer y myfyrwyr hŷn sy’n dychwelyd i astudio am radd? (OAQ16543)

Datganaf fuddiant gan fod fy merch-yng-nghyfraith wedi dychwelyd i goleg fel myfyrwraig hŷn i ddilyn cwrs gradd.

in Welsh I declare an interest as my daughter-in-law has returned to college as a mature student to follow a degree course.

Jane Davidson spoken in English p. 31

Jane Davidson siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 31

Data is collected on the number of mature students resuming study after a year out of higher education. In 1999-2000, 20 per cent of mature students returned to the higher education institution, or transferred to another institution, after a year out. The Welsh sector performs above the UK average in this area, with a comparable figure for the UK of 15 per cent.

Cesglir data ar nifer y myfyrwyr hŷn sy’n ailddechrau astudio ar ôl blwyddyn y tu allan i addysg uwch. Yn 1999-2000, dychwelodd 20 y cant o fyfyrwyr hŷn i’r sefydliad addysg uwch, neu drosglwyddo i sefydliad arall, ar ôl blwyddyn allan. Mae cyfartaledd y sector yng Nghymru yn uwch na chyfartaledd y DU yn y maes hwn, a’r ffigur cymaradwy am y DU yw 15 y cant.

Gwenda Thomas spoken in English p. 31

Gwenda Thomas siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 31

Do you agree that more mature students would return to learning if student loans were not assessed as income, and if the means-testing process did not automatically deem a spouse or partner to be making a financial contribution?

A ydych yn cytuno y byddai rhagor o fyfyrwyr hŷn yn dychwelyd i ddysgu pe na châi benthyciadau myfyriwr eu hasesu fel incwm, a phe na byddai’r broses prawf moddion yn barnu’n awtomatig fod priod neu gymar yn cyfrannu’n ariannol?

Jane Davidson spoken in English p. 31

Jane Davidson siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 31

The Assembly has incentivised returning to learning. The new Assembly learning grants specifically focus on the idea that mature students will receive additional support of up to £1,500, from September this year. There have been several other measures that have assisted mature students, such as the extension of subsidised student loan availability to 50 to 54-year-olds, income-based grants for children’s school meals, and, since 2000, mature students are no longer required to take out a hardship loan before receiving non-repayable hardship fund assistance. Also since 2000, income assessment has been eased with a higher level of income disregarded. These are all moving in the right direction. However, in terms of our policies, it is important that our Assembly learning grants will provide many more mature students with the incentive to learn. We already know that 90 per cent of part-time undergraduate entrants are mature students, and we are doing far better than other parts of the UK in terms of encouraging them, and retaining them in our system.

Mae’r Cynulliad yn cynnig anogaethau i bobl er mwyn iddynt ddychwelyd i ddysgu. Mae grantiau dysgu newydd y Cynulliad yn canolbwyntio’n benodol ar y syniad y bydd myfyrwyr hŷn yn derbyn hyd at £1,500 o gymorth ychwanegol o fis Medi eleni. Bu sawl mesur arall a gynorthwyodd fyfyrwyr hŷn, fel ymestyn y ddarpariaeth o fenthyciadau myfyriwr â chymhorthdal i rai rhwng 50 a 54 mlwydd oed, grantiau ar sail incwm ar gyfer prydau ysgol plant, ac, ers 2000, nid oes gofyn i fyfyrwyr hŷn gymryd benthyciad caledi cyn derbyn cymorth nad oes angen ei ad-dalu oddi wrth y gronfa galedi. Ers 2000 hefyd, mae’r asesiad incwm wedi’i liniaru wrth i lefel uwch o incwm gael ei anwybyddu. Mae’r rhain i gyd yn symud i’r cyfeiriad iawn. Fodd bynnag, o ran ein polisïau, mae’n bwysig y bydd grantiau dysgu’r Cynulliad yn rhoi anogaeth i lawer rhagor o fyfyrwyr hŷn ymhél â dysgu. Gwyddom eisoes fod 90 y cant o’r is-raddedigion rhan amser a dderbynnir yn fyfyrwyr hŷn, ac yr ydym yn gwneud yn well o lawer na rhannau eraill o’r DU o ran eu hannog a’u cadw yn ein system.

Gareth Jones siaradwyd yn Gymraeg t. 32

Gareth Jones spoken in Welsh p. 32

Yn dilyn y pwynt hwnnw, pa strategaeth sydd gan Lywodraeth Cymru i dargedu’r myfyrwyr hŷn hynny a’u denu i’r proffesiwn dysgu, a thrwy hynny, leihau’r argyfwng sy’n bodoli mewn rhai ysgolion oherwydd prinder athrawon mewn pynciau megis mathemateg a ffiseg, ynghyd â phrinder athrawon sydd yn dysgu drwy gyfrwng y Gymraeg?

Further to that point, what strategy does the Government of Wales have for targeting these mature students and attracting them into the teaching profession, thereby alleviating the crisis that exists in some schools where there is a shortage of teachers in subjects such as mathematics and physics, as well as a shortage of teachers teaching through the medium of Welsh?

Jane Davidson spoken in English p. 32

Jane Davidson siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 32

I am glad that you acknowledge that the crisis only exists in some schools, because the chief inspector gave evidence yesterday that there was not a crisis in Wales, but that there are some specific shortages in some areas. I am particularly concerned about the areas you mention. We have been in talks with the Welsh Language Board about Welsh-medium teaching, and the work of the Education and Lifelong Learning Committee and of the Culture Committee will be important in driving that forward. In my higher education strategy, I announced the opportunity to take language sabbaticals in order to encourage people to move from teaching one subject to teaching another. I will meet representatives from the Institute of Physics next week to discuss these issues. All the financial incentives and the continuing professional development programmes are in place in the profession. We must all demonstrate how supportive Wales is of teaching and encourage people into the profession.

Yr wyf yn falch eich bod yn cydnabod nad yw’r argyfwng ond yn bodoli mewn rhai ysgolion, oherwydd rhoddodd y prif arolygydd dystiolaeth ddoe nad oedd argyfwng yng Nghymru, ond bod rhai prinderau penodol mewn rhai meysydd. Yr wyf yn arbennig o bryderus ynghylch y meysydd yr ydych yn eu crybwyll. Cawsom drafodaethau â Bwrdd yr Iaith Gymraeg am ddysgu drwy gyfrwng y Gymraeg, a bydd gwaith y Pwyllgor Addysg a Dysgu Gydol Oes a’r Pwyllgor Diwylliant yn bwysig wrth hyrwyddo hynny. Yn fy strategaeth addysg uwch, cyhoeddais y cyfle i gymryd cyfnodau sabothol iaith er mwyn annog pobl i symud oddi wrth ddysgu un pwnc at ddysgu un arall. Byddaf yn cwrdd â chynrychiolwyr o’r Sefydliad Ffiseg yr wythnos nesaf i drafod y materion hyn. Mae’r holl anogaethau ariannol a’r rhaglenni datblygiad proffesiynol parhaus ar waith yn y proffesiwn. Rhaid i bawb ohonom ddangos pa mor gefnogol y mae Cymru i addysgu ac i annog pobl i ddod i’r proffesiwn.

Dysgu Ieithoedd Tramor Modern mewn Ysgolion Cynradd

Modern Foreign Language Learning at Primary Level

Q4 Karen Sinclair spoken in English p. 32

C4 Karen Sinclair siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 32

Will the Minister make a brief statement on the pilots for developing modern foreign language learning at primary level? (OAQ16526)

A wnaiff y Gweinidog ddatganiad byr am y cynlluniau peilot ar gyfer datblygu dysgu ieithoedd tramor modern mewn ysgolion cynradd? (OAQ16526)

Jane Davidson spoken in English p. 32

Jane Davidson siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 32

I am delighted to do so. Following my announcement in the Plenary debate on 28 February, we are establishing a working group with representatives from Estyn, Awdurdod Cymwysterau, Cwricwlwm ac Asesu Cymru and the Centre for Information on Language Teaching and Research Cymru to develop the model for the pilots. Discussion between key players has already begun and we expect the working group’s first meeting to be held shortly. We will invite schools to take part from 2003, as promised, when we have finalised the model and established the necessary pre-conditions for the pilots so that they stand the best chance of succeeding.

Yr wyf wrth fy modd yn gwneud hynny. Ar ôl fy nghyhoeddiad yn y ddadl yn y Cyfarfod Llawn ar 28 Chwefror, yr ydym yn sefydlu gweithgor gyda chynrychiolwyr o Estyn, Awdurdod Cymwysterau, Cwricwlwm ac Asesu Cymru a Chanolfan Wybodaeth ac Ymchwil Cymru ar Ddysgu Ieithoedd i ddatblygu’r model ar gyfer y cynlluniau peilot. Mae’r trafod rhwng y cyfranwyr allweddol wedi dechrau eisoes ac yr ydym yn disgwyl y bydd y gweithgor yn cynnal ei gyfarfod cyntaf cyn hir. Byddwn yn gwahodd ysgolion i gymryd rhan o 2003 ymlaen, fel yr addawyd, pan fyddwn wedi cwblhau’r model ac wedi sefydlu’r rhagamodau angenrheidiol ar gyfer y modelau fel bod ganddynt y cyfle gorau i lwyddo.

Karen Sinclair spoken in English p. 33

Karen Sinclair siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 33

Do you share the worry of many modern foreign language teachers that the future capacity to teach European languages, other than English and Welsh, in our secondary schools is of serious concern due to the growing inability of schools to retain qualified staff because of the low take-up in such subjects?

A ydych yn rhannu pryder llawer o athrawon ieithoedd tramor modern bod y capasiti i ddysgu ieithoedd Ewropeaidd, heblaw am y Gymraeg a’r Saesneg, yn ein hysgolion uwchradd yn y dyfodol yn destun pryder difrifol oherwydd anallu cynyddol yr ysgolion i gadw staff cymwysedig o ganlyniad i’r nifer fach sy’n astudio’r pynciau hynny?

Jane Davidson spoken in English p. 33

Jane Davidson siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 33

That declining take-up is precisely why we have produced the strategy, ‘Languages Count’. Many measures to address the demand for modern foreign language teachers are set out in that strategy, such as strengthening adviser networks to help to get the best from existing teachers and to promote collaborative working; support for foreign language assistants, who have an important role in the classroom and who can return to train and work as modern foreign language teachers; and measures for initial teacher training. Producing a strategy is an important symbol in terms of showing that we are taking the issue seriously. We are looking to introduce the pilot schemes in Wales from 2003 onwards. That is part of our international agenda and of Wales playing on the world stage.

Y dirywiad hwnnw yn y nifer sy’n eu hastudio yw’r union reswm yr ydym wedi cynhyrchu’r strategaeth ‘Mae Ieithoedd yn Cyfrif’. Mae llawer o’r camau i ateb y galw am athrawon ieithoedd tramor modern wedi’u nodi yn y strategaeth honno, fel cryfhau’r rhwydweithiau ymgynghorwyr i helpu i gael y gorau gan yr athrawon presennol ac i hyrwyddo gweithio cydweithredol; cymorth i gynorthwywyr ieithoedd tramor, sydd â rôl bwysig yn yr ystafell ddosbarth ac sy’n gallu dychwelyd i hyfforddi a gweithio fel athrawon ieithoedd tramor modern; a chamau ar gyfer hyfforddiant cychwynnol athrawon. Mae cynhyrchu strategaeth yn symbol bwysig o ran dangos ein bod yn cymryd y mater o ddifrif. Yr ydym yn bwriadu cyflwyno cynlluniau peilot yng Nghymru o 2003 ymlaen. Mae hynny’n rhan o’n hagenda ryngwladol ac o’r rôl y mae Cymru’n ei chwarae ar lwyfan y byd.

David Davies spoken in English p. 33

David Davies siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 33

You will be aware that the number of pupils taking up a modern foreign language is falling in Wales faster than it is in England. Do you agree that we could turn this situation around by, first, taking a more flexible approach towards the compulsory teaching of Welsh at key stage 4 and, secondly, by incorporating the types of techniques that are used to teach Welsh to adults, such as concentrating on the spoken language rather than writing or reading the language?

Byddwch yn ymwybodol bod nifer y disgyblion sy’n dechrau astudio iaith dramor fodern yn disgyn yn gynt yng Nghymru nag y mae yn Lloegr. A ydych yn cytuno y gallem weddnewid y sefyllfa hon drwy, yn gyntaf, fabwysiadu ymagwedd fwy hyblyg at ddysgu’r Gymraeg yn orfodol yng nghyfnod allweddol 4 ac, yn ail, drwy gynnwys mathau o dechnegau a ddefnyddir i ddysgu’r Gymraeg i oedolion, fel canolbwyntio ar yr iaith lafar yn hytrach nag ar ysgrifennu neu ddarllen yr iaith?

Jane Davidson spoken in English p. 34

Jane Davidson siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 34

Those are two important questions. On the first question, there is no evidence of a relationship between the compulsory teaching of Welsh and the decline in take-up of modern foreign languages. I have said that before in the Chamber. There is sometimes an issue with regard to timetabling in schools, which the working group will want to address in the guidance that it issues. We also know much more about language teaching than we did before. The Nuffield report noted in particular that we should build on our successful teaching of Welsh. There are many ways forward, by encouraging pupils to language-learn, and we should consider some more concentrated techniques, such as the immersion technique, and focusing on using the language in new ways that are deemed useful for the recipient. When we consider our pilots, we will be able to consider some of those issues.

Mae’r ddau gwestiwn hynny’n bwysig. Ynghylch y cwestiwn cyntaf, nid oes tystiolaeth o berthynas rhwng dysgu’r Gymraeg yn orfodol a’r dirywiad yn y nifer sy’n astudio ieithoedd tramor modern. Dywedais hynny yn y Siambr o’r blaen. Weithiau mae mater yn codi ynghylch amserlennu mewn ysgolion, a bydd y gweithgor yn dymuno ymdrin â hynny yn y canllawiau y mae’n eu cyhoeddi. Yr ydym yn gwybod llawer mwy’n awr am ddysgu ieithoedd nag yr oeddem o’r blaen. Nododd adroddiad Nuffield yn benodol y dylem adeiladu ar sail ein dysgu llwyddiannus o’r Gymraeg. Mae llawer o ffyrdd ymlaen, drwy annog disgyblion i ddysgu drwy ieithoedd, a dylem ystyried rhai o’r technegau dwysach, fel y dechneg ymdrwytho, a chanolbwyntio ar ddulliau newydd o ddefnyddio’r iaith a ystyrir yn fuddiol i’r derbynnydd. Pan ystyriwn ein cynlluniau peilot, byddwn yn gallu ystyried rhai o’r materion hynny.

Cynog Dafis siaradwyd yn Gymraeg t. 34

Cynog Dafis spoken in Welsh p. 34

A fyddech yn fodlon gofyn i ACCAC gydweithio â Bwrdd yr Iaith Gymraeg i sicrhau y caiff datblygu addysg Gymraeg ac addysg ddwyieithog ei gysylltu â dysgu ieithoedd tramor, yn y modd y clywsom amdano gan Cen Williams yn y Pwyllgor Addysg a Dysgu Gydol Oes. Byddai hynny yn ein galluogi o adeiladu ar ddwyieithrwydd a’i gysylltu â datblygu dysgu ieithoedd tramor, heb fod yr olaf yn digwydd ar draul y blaenaf?

Would you be prepared to ask ACCAC to work with the Welsh Language Board to ensure that the development of Welsh-medium and bilingual education is linked to the teaching of foreign languages, in accordance with the model described by Cen Williams at the Education and Lifelong Learning Committee. That would allow us to build on bilingualism and link it to the teaching of foreign languages, without the latter being done at the expense of the former?

Jane Davidson spoken in English p. 34

Jane Davidson siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 34

I am happy to consider that because we need to build on our success and on the tried and tested techniques in order to drive this agenda forward in all our languages.

Yr wyf yn fodlon ystyried hynny oherwydd mae angen inni adeiladu ar sail ein llwyddiant a’r technegau profedig i hyrwyddo’r agenda hon yn ein holl ieithoedd.

Prosiectau ar y cyd rhwng Prifysgolion yng Nghymru a Lloegr

Collaborative Projects between Universities in England and Wales

C5 Ieuan Wyn Jones siaradwyd yn Gymraeg t. 34

Q5 Ieuan Wyn Jones spoken in Welsh p. 34

Pa gymorth sydd ar gael i ariannu prosiectau ar y cyd rhwng prifysgolion yng Nghymru a Lloegr? (OAQ16585)

What assistance is available to fund collaborative projects between universities in England and Wales? (OAQ16585)

Jane Davidson siaradwyd yn Gymraeg t. 34

Jane Davidson spoken in Welsh p. 34

Y mae’r Cynulliad, drwy Gyngor Cyllido Addysg Uwch Cymru, wedi rhoi £2 filiwn yn y flwyddyn ariannol hon i’r gronfa newid strwythurol. Mae’r gronfa hon yn cefnogi prosiectau ar y cyd, gan gynnwys prosiectau rhwng Cymru a Lloegr. Ni dderbyniwyd unrhyw gynigion trawsffiniol yn y cylch ceisiadau diweddar. Yr wyf am glustnodi £3 miliwn pellach o arian newydd at ailstrwythuro yn 2002.

The Assembly, through the Higher Education Funding Council for Wales, has given £2 million in this financial year to the structural change fund. This fund supports collaborative projects, including those involving collaborative working between England and Wales. No cross-border proposals were received in the recent bidding round. I will earmark a further £3 million of new money for restructuring in 2002.

Ieuan Wyn Jones siaradwyd yn Gymraeg t. 35

Ieuan Wyn Jones spoken in Welsh p. 35

A fyddai modd edrych ar y ffordd y mae prosiectau ar y cyd rhwng prifysgolion yng Nghymru a Lloegr yn cael eu cyllido i’r dyfodol? Er enghraifft, mae prosiect ardderchog ar ddyslecsia yn cael ei ddatblygu ar y cyd rhwng Prifysgol Cymru, Bangor a phrifysgol yn Essex. Y broblem yw bod gofyn i’r brifysgol yng Nghymru wneud cais am gyllid drwy Gyngor Cyllido Addysg Uwch Cymru, tra bo’r brifysgol yn Lloegr yn gorfod gwneud cais drwy’r Adran Addysg a Sgiliau. Felly, er bod y prifysgolion yn cydweithredu, mae’n rhaid i’r cais am arian gael ei wneud i ddau gorff gwahanol. A fyddai modd i chi drafod hyn gyda’r Gweinidog perthnasol yn yr Adran Addysg a Sgiliau, i weld a oes modd ysgafnhau’r baich hwnnw, ac i ganiatáu gwneud un cais yn hytrach na dau?

Would it be possible to consider the way in which collaborative projects between universities in England and Wales are funded for the future? For example, an excellent project on dyslexia is being developed jointly between the University of Wales, Bangor and a university in Essex. The problem arises because the Welsh university has to apply for funding through the Higher Education Funding Council for Wales, while the English university has to apply through the Department for Education and Skills. Therefore, even though the universities collaborate, the application for funding has to be made to two separate bodies. Would it be possible for you to discuss this with the relevant Minister at the Department for Education and Skills, with a view to removing this stumbling block, and allowing one application, rather than two, to be made?

Jane Davidson spoken in English p. 35

Jane Davidson siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 35

That is an interesting question coming from you, Ieuan. This is a devolved issue. The Higher Education Funding Council for Wales funds Welsh higher education institutions, and I do not want to change that. Where there are shared priorities between the Assembly and the Department for Education and Skills, there are areas where we can consider joint funding. We have universities along Wales’s borders which may wish to collaborate with higher education institutions in England, and we already have effective collaboration across the border. There is, quite appropriately, a bar on funding from Wales in England. However, we are actively encouraging involvement from Wales on the world stage through collaboration not only within Britain, but with other parts of the world.

Mae hwnnw’n gwestiwn diddorol gan mai chi sy’n ei ofyn, Ieuan. Mae hwn yn fater a ddatganolwyd. Cyngor Cyllido Addysg Uwch Cymru sy’n ariannu sefydliadau addysg uwch Cymru, ac nid wyf yn dymuno newid hynny. Lle y mae blaenoriaethau yn cael eu cydrannu gan y Cynulliad a’r Adran Addysg a Sgiliau, mae meysydd lle y gallwn ystyried ariannu ar y cyd. Mae gennym brifysgolion ar hyd gororau Cymru a allai ddymuno cydweithio â sefydliadau addysg uwch yn Lloegr, ac mae cydweithio effeithiol ar draws y ffin yn digwydd eisoes. Mae gwaharddiad, yn gwbl briodol, ar gyllido o Gymru yn Lloegr. Fodd bynnag, yr ydym yn annog Cymru i gyfrannu ar lwyfan y byd drwy gydweithio nid yn unig ym Mhrydain, ond â rhannau eraill o’r byd.

Eleanor Burnham spoken in English p. 35

Eleanor Burnham siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 35

Do you believe that HEFCW has the evidence and the capacity to assist the collaborative process recommended in the higher education review?

A ydych yn credu bod HEFCW yn meddu ar y dystiolaeth a’r gallu priodol i gynorthwyo yn y broses gydweithredol a argymhellir yn yr adolygiad o addysg uwch?

Jane Davidson spoken in English p. 36

Jane Davidson siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 36

Yes, or I would not have asked HEFCW to take on that responsibility. However, this is a collaborative agenda. HEFCW is the body responsible for the delivery of grant funding in Wales. We will work closely with HEFCW and with Higher Education Wales, individual institutions in both the higher and further education sector—we are also talking about collaborative work between those sectors for the seamless delivery of lifelong learning—and with stakeholders such as unions and governing bodies to develop this agenda together. Our strategy clearly laid out the direction. It was good that HEFCW yesterday welcomed the clarity of that direction. We now need to ensure that we have the individual actions in place to take that forward.

Ydwyf, neu ni fyddwn wedi gofyn i HEFCW ymgymryd â’r cyfrifoldeb hwnnw. Fodd bynnag, agenda gydweithredol yw hon. HEFCW yw’r corff sy’n gyfrifol am roi cyllid grant yng Nghymru. Byddwn yn cydweithio’n agos â HEFCW ac Addysg Uwch Cymru, sefydliadau unigol yn y sector addysg uwch a’r sector addysg bellach—yr ydym hefyd yn trafod gwaith cydweithredol rhwng y sectorau hynny er mwyn darparu dysgu gydol oes yn ddi-dor—a chyda rhanddeiliaid fel yr undebau a chyrff llywodraethu i ddatblygu’r agenda hon gyda’n gilydd. Mae ein strategaeth wedi pennu’r cyfeiriad yn bendant. Yr oedd yn beth da bod HEFCW wedi croesawu eglurdeb y cyfeiriad hwnnw ddoe. Mae angen yn awr inni sicrhau bod y camau unigol ar waith i fwrw ymlaen â hynny.

Pwynt o Drefn

Point of Order

Jonathan Morgan spoken in English p. 36

Jonathan Morgan siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 36

Point of order. I raise this under Standing Order No. 15.4, relating to membership of the Committee on European and External Affairs. Earlier this morning, I tried to establish the exact membership of that Committee. Unfortunately, I did not receive the information until after the vote on the election of Janet Davies to the Committee. The motion is inaccurate, because Elin Jones has not been a member of the Committee on European and External Affairs since February 2000. Therefore, we have inadvertently increased the membership of that Committee from 11 to 12 members. This has not been done with the consent of all parties, and the business managers were unaware of that fact. I seek your guidance as to the validity of the motion that was carried this morning.

Pwynt o drefn. Yr wyf yn codi hyn o dan Reol Sefydlog Rhif 15.4, mewn cysylltiad ag aelodaeth o’r Pwyllgor Materion Ewropeaidd ac Allanol. Yn gynharach y bore yma, ceisiais gadarnhau beth oedd union aelodaeth y Pwyllgor hwnnw. Gwaetha’r modd, ni dderbyniais y wybodaeth tan ar ôl y bleidlais ar ethol Janet Davies i’r Pwyllgor. Mae’r cynnig yn anghywir, oherwydd ni fu Elin Jones yn aelod o’r Pwyllgor Materion Ewropeaidd ac Allanol ers Chwefror 2000. Gan hynny, yr ydym, drwy amryfusedd, wedi cynyddu aelodaeth y Pwyllgor hwnnw o 11 i 12 aelod. Ni wnaethpwyd hynny gyda chydsyniad yr holl bleidiau, ac nid oedd y trefnyddion busnes yn ymwybodol o’r ffaith honno. Ceisiaf eich cyfarwyddyd ynghylch dilysrwydd y cynnig a dderbyniwyd y bore yma.

Jocelyn Davies spoken in English p. 36

Jocelyn Davies siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 36

Further to that point of order, when you check Elin Jones’s resignation letter to you, Presiding Officer, you will see that she is giving up her seat on the Committee of the Regions. The motion said that Janet Davies would only be elected to the Committee on European and External Affairs on receipt of a resignation letter from Elin. It is by virtue of the seat on the Committee of the Regions that Elin has observer status on the Committee on European and External Affairs.

Ymhellach i’r pwynt o drefn hwnnw, pan wiriwch y llythyr ymddiswyddo yr anfonodd Elin Jones atoch, Lywydd, fe welwch ei bod yn rhoi’r gorau i’w sedd ar Bwyllgor y Rhanbarthau. Dywedodd y cynnig y câi Janet Davies ei hethol i’r Pwyllgor Materion Ewropeaidd ac Allanol dim ond ar ôl derbyn llythyr ymddiswyddo oddi wrth Elin. Yn rhinwedd y sedd ar Bwyllgor y Rhanbarthau y mae gan Elin statws sylwebydd ar y Pwyllgor Materion Ewropeaidd ac Allanol.

Carwyn Jones The Minister for Rural Affairs and Assembly Business: spoken in English p. 37

Carwyn Jones Y Gweinidog dros Faterion Gwledig a Threfnydd y Cynulliad siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 37

I am aware of this anomaly. It was raised at a late stage this morning. Now that we have voted on it, we can examine and investigate it. If corrective action needs to be taken, it should and will be taken with the minimum of fuss. This matter was raised at a late stage and I am grateful to Jonathan, in particular, for alerting me to this point of order.

Yr wyf yn ymwybodol o’r anghysondeb hwn. Fe’i codwyd yn hwyr y bore yma. Gan ein bod wedi pleidleisio arno, gallwn ei archwilio ac ymchwilio iddo. Os oes angen cymryd camau cywiro, fe wneir hynny, fel y dylid, gyda’r lleiaf posibl o ffwdan. Codwyd y mater hwn yn hwyr ac yr wyf yn ddiolchgar i Jonathan, yn enwedig, am roi rhybudd imi ynglŷn â’r pwynt o drefn hwn.

Dafydd Elis-Thomas The Presiding Officer spoken in English p. 37

Dafydd Elis-Thomas Y Llywydd siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 37

I will obviously return to this issue after the Easter recess, if it raises any matter relating to the Chair.

Mae’n amlwg y byddaf yn ailafael â’r mater hwn ar ôl toriad y Pasg, os yw’n codi unrhyw fater sy’n ymwneud â’r Cadeirydd.

Cynnig Cyfansawdd: Cymeradwyo Gorchmynion

Composite Motion: Approval of Orders

Carwyn Jones Y Gweinidog dros Faterion Gwledig a Threfnydd y Cynulliad siaradwyd yn Gymraeg t. 37

Carwyn Jones The Minister for Rural Affairs and Assembly Business spoken in Welsh p. 37

Cynigiaf fod

I propose that

Dafydd Elis-Thomas Y Llywydd siaradwyd yn Gymraeg t. 39

Dafydd Elis-Thomas The Presiding Officer spoken in Welsh p. 39

O dan Reol Sefydlog Rhif 22.25, ni chynhelir dadl ar y cynnig hwn.

Under Standing Order No. 22.25, this motion is not subject to debate.

Pauline Jarman a gododd—

Pauline Jarman rose—

Dafydd Elis-Thomas The Presiding Officer spoken in English p. 39

Dafydd Elis-Thomas Y Llywydd siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 39

Order. A vote is in progress.

Trefn. Yr ydym ar ganol pleidlais.

DerbyniwydAdopted O blaidFor 42 YmatalAbstain 0 Yn erbynAgainst 0

Derbyniwyd y cynnig.

Motion carried.

Sut y pleidleisiodd yr AelodauHow Members voted
O blaidFor (42)
  • Lorraine Barrett
  • Peter Black
  • Eleanor Burnham
  • Rosemary Butler
  • Alun Cairns
  • Christine Chapman
  • Cynog Dafis
  • Jane Davidson
  • Andrew Davies
  • David Davies
  • Janet Davies
  • Jocelyn Davies
  • Sue Essex
  • Delyth Evans
  • Michael German
  • Brian Gibbons
  • William Graham
  • John Griffiths
  • Alison Halford
  • Brian Hancock
  • Edwina Hart
  • Jane Hutt
  • Ann Jones
  • Carwyn Jones
  • Gareth Jones
  • Helen Mary Jones
  • Ieuan Wyn Jones
  • Peter Law
  • Huw Lewis
  • David Lloyd
  • David Melding
  • Tom Middlehurst
  • Jonathan Morgan
  • Rhodri Morgan
  • Alun Pugh
  • Jenny Randerson
  • Rod Richards
  • Janet Ryder
  • Karen Sinclair
  • Owen John Thomas
  • Rhodri Glyn Thomas
  • Phil Williams

Pwyntiau o Drefn

Points of Order

Dafydd Elis-Thomas The Presiding Officer spoken in English p. 40

Dafydd Elis-Thomas Y Llywydd siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 40

Pauline Jarman, did you wish to raise a point of order?

Pauline Jarman, a oeddech yn dymuno codi pwynt o drefn?

Pauline Jarman spoken in English p. 40

Pauline Jarman siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 40

No. I wanted to declare an interest as a member of Rhondda Cynon Taff County Borough Council but, under the circumstances, I chose not to exercise my vote.

Nac oeddwn. Yr oeddwn yn dymuno datgan buddiant fel aelod o Gyngor Bwrdeistref Sirol Rhondda Cynon Taf ond, o dan yr amgylchiadau, dewisais beidio â bwrw fy mhleidlais.

Gareth Jones a gododd—

Gareth Jones rose—

Dafydd Elis-Thomas The Presiding Officer spoken in English p. 40

Dafydd Elis-Thomas Y Llywydd siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 40

Order. As you know, it is not my practice to allow points of order during votes because it is disruptive. If Members wish to raise points of order they must do so either before or after the vote.

Trefn. Fel y gwyddoch, nid yw’n arfer gennyf ganiatáu pwyntiau o drefn yn ystod pleidleisiau gan fod hynny’n amharu. Os yw Aelodau’n dymuno codi pwyntiau o drefn rhaid iddynt wneud hynny un ai cyn neu ar ôl y bleidlais.

Gareth Jones siaradwyd yn Gymraeg t. 41

Gareth Jones spoken in Welsh p. 41

Pwynt o drefn. Datganaf fuddiant fel aelod o Gyngor Bwrdeistref Sirol Conwy.

Point of order. I declare an interest as a member of Conwy County Borough Council.

Val Lloyd spoken in English p. 41

Val Lloyd siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 41

Further to that point of order, I declare an interest as a member of Swansea City and County Council .

Ymhellach i’r pwynt o drefn hwnnw, datganaf fuddiant fel aelod o Gyngor Dinas a Sir Abertawe.

Peter Black spoken in English p. 41

Peter Black siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 41

Further to that point of order, I also declare an interest as a member of Swansea City and County Council

Ymhellach i’r pwynt o drefn hwnnw, datganaf finnau fuddiant fel aelod o Gyngor Dinas a Sir Abertawe.

David Lloyd spoken in English p. 41

David Lloyd siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 41

Further to that point of order, I also declare an interest as a member of Swansea City and County Council.

Ymhellach i’r pwynt o drefn hwnnw, datganaf finnau fuddiant fel aelod o Gyngor Dinas a Sir Abertawe.

William Graham spoken in English p. 41

William Graham siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 41

Further to that point of order, I declare an interest as a member of Newport County Borough Council.

Ymhellach i’r pwynt o drefn hwnnw, datganaf fuddiant fel aelod o Gyngor Bwrdeistref Sirol Casnewydd.

Dafydd Elis-Thomas The Presiding Officer spoken in English p. 41

Dafydd Elis-Thomas Y Llywydd siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 41

Order. This raises a matter that was discussed on Tuesday when, because of the pressure of other important business, I did not have the opportunity to deal with it as extensively as I would have liked. I will ask the Business Committee to review how our Standing Orders relate to the declaration of interests, especially in terms of voting. At the moment, Standing Orders specify that declarations of interest must relate to proceedings in the Assembly. It is clear that, on the advice that I have received, voting is a proceeding. However, we may need to consider whether it may be more appropriate to relate the declaration of interests to specific participation in debates. However, I will take advice on this from the Business Committee.

Trefn. Mae hyn yn codi mater a drafodwyd ddydd Mawrth pan na chefais gyfle, oherwydd pwysau busnes pwysig arall, i ymdrin ag ef mor helaeth ag y buaswn wedi hoffi. Gofynnaf i’r Pwyllgor Busnes adolygu’r berthynas rhwng ein Rheolau Sefydlog a’r datganiadau o fuddiant, yn enwedig yng nghyd-destun pleidleisio. Ar hyn o bryd, mae’r Rheolau Sefydlog yn nodi bod yn rhaid i ddatganiadau o fuddiant ymwneud â thrafodion yn y Cynulliad. Mae’n amlwg, ar sail y cyngor a gefais, fod pleidleisio yn rhan o’n trafodion. Fodd bynnag, mae’n bosibl y bydd angen inni ystyried a allai fod yn fwy priodol cysylltu’r datganiadau o fuddiant â chyfranogiad penodol mewn dadleuon. Fodd bynnag, cymeraf gyngor ar hyn gan y Pwyllgor Busnes.

Alun Cairns a gododd—

Alun Cairns rose—

Dafydd Elis-Thomas The Presiding Officer spoken in English p. 41

Dafydd Elis-Thomas Y Llywydd siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 41

Order. Is this a fresh and entirely novel point of order that I have not heard before?

Trefn. Ai pwynt o drefn ffres a chwbl newydd yw hwn nas clywais o’r blaen?

Alun Cairns spoken in English p. 41

Alun Cairns siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 41

I raise a point of order under Standing Order No. 15 relating to no named day motion 1011 to elect Geraint Davies to the Partnership Council. I do not believe that that motion specified to which Partnership Council Geraint Davies was elected. Would it be the business partnership council or the local government partnership council? [ASSEMBLY MEMBERS: ‘What about the voluntary sector partnership?’] Or would it even be the voluntary sector partnership council?

Yr wyf yn codi pwynt o drefn o dan Reol Sefydlog Rhif 15 sy’n ymwneud â’r cynnig heb ddyddiad trafod 1011 i ethol Geraint Davies i’r Cyngor Partneriaeth. Ni chredaf fod y cynnig hwnnw’n nodi i ba Gyngor Partneriaeth yr etholwyd Geraint Davies. Ai’r cyngor partneriaeth busnes yw hynny neu gyngor partneriaeth llywodraeth leol? [AELODAU O’R CYNULLIAD]: ‘Beth am bartneriaeth y sector gwirfoddol?’] Neu hyd yn oed cyngor partneriaeth y sector gwirfoddol?

Dafydd Elis-Thomas The Presiding Officer spoken in English p. 42

Dafydd Elis-Thomas Y Llywydd siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 42

Order. If there is lack of clarity in any motion before us, it is clearly a serious matter. I will take further advice and return to this if necessary. The Minster for Rural Affairs and Assembly Business will have heard, as will the other business managers.

Trefn. Os oes diffyg eglurder mewn unrhyw gynnig sydd ger ein bron, mae’n amlwg bod hynny’n fater difrifol. Cymeraf gyngor pellach a dod yn ôl at hyn os oes angen. Bydd y Gweinidog dros Faterion Gwledig a Threfnydd y Cynulliad wedi clywed eich pwynt, fel y bydd y trefnyddion busnes eraill.

Cymeradwyo Rheoliadau Cymorth Gwladol (Asesu Adnoddau) (Diwygio) (Cymru) 2002 a Rheoliadau Cymorth Gwladol (Symiau at Anghenion Personol) (Cymru) 2002

Approval of the National Assistance (Assessment of Resources) (Amendment) (Wales) Regulations 2002 and of the National Assistance (Sums for Personal Requirements) (Wales) Regulations 2002

Dafydd Elis-Thomas The Presiding Officer spoken in English p. 42

Dafydd Elis-Thomas Y Llywydd siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 42

I have selected amendment 1 in the names of David Lloyd, Jocelyn Davies and Geraint Davies to NDM1014, and amendment 1 in the names of Jonathan Morgan, David Melding and William Graham to NDM1015.

Yr wyf wedi dethol gwelliant 1 yn enwau David Lloyd, Jocelyn Davies a Geraint Davies i NDM1014, a gwelliant 1 yn enwau Jonathan Morgan, David Melding a William Graham i NDM1015.

Jane Hutt The Minister for Health and Social Services spoken in English p. 42

Jane Hutt Y Gweinidog dros Iechyd a Gwasanaethau Cymdeithasol siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 42

I propose that

Cynigiaf fod

Jane Hutt The Minister for Health and Social Services (continued) spoken in English p. 42

Jane Hutt Y Gweinidog dros Iechyd a Gwasanaethau Cymdeithasol (parhad) siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 42

and that

a bod

the National Assembly:

y Cynulliad Cenedlaethol:

1. considers the report of the Legislation Committee which does not draw the special attention of the Assembly to any matter under Standing Order No. 11.5 in relation to the draft Order, the National Assistance (Assessment of Resources) (Amendment) (Wales) Regulations 2002, laid in the Table Office on 12 March 2002; and

1. yn ystyried adroddiad y Pwyllgor Deddfau nad yw'n tynnu sylw arbennig y Cynulliad at unrhyw fater o dan Reol Sefydlog Rhif 11.5 mewn perthynas â'r Gorchymyn drafft, Rheoliadau Cymorth Gwladol (Asesu Adnoddau) (Diwygio) (Cymru) 2002 a osodwyd yn y Swyddfa Gyflwyno ar 12 Mawrth 2002; ac

2. approves that the Order is made in accordance with the draft laid in the Table

2. yn cymeradwyo bod y Gorchymyn yn cael ei wneud yn unol â'r drafft a osodwyd yn y

Office on 4 March 2002. (NDM1014)

Swyddfa Gyflwyno ar 4 Mawrth 2002. (NDM1014)

I also propose that

Cynigiaf hefyd fod

Jane Hutt The Minister for Health and Social Services (continued) spoken in English p. 43

Jane Hutt Y Gweinidog dros Iechyd a Gwasanaethau Cymdeithasol (parhad) siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 43

and that

a bod

the National Assembly:

y Cynulliad Cenedlaethol:

1. considers the report of the Legislation Committee which does not draw the special attention of the Assembly to any matter under Standing Order No. 11.5, in relation to the draft Order, the National Assistance (Sums for Personal Requirements) (Wales) Regulations 2002, laid in the Table Office on 12 March 2002.

1. yn ystyried adroddiad y Pwyllgor Deddfau nad yw'n tynnu sylw arbennig y Cynulliad at unrhyw fater o dan Reol Sefydlog Rhif 11.5 mewn perthynas â'r Gorchymyn drafft, Rheoliadau Cymorth Gwladol (Symiau at Anghenion Personol) (Cymru) 2002, a osodwyd yn y Swyddfa Gyflwyno ar 12 Mawrth 2002.

2. approves that the Order is made in accordance with the draft laid in the Table Office on 4 March 2002. (NDM1015)

2. yn cymeradwyo bod y Gorchymyn yn cael ei wneud yn unol â'r drafft a osodwyd yn y Swyddfa Gyflwyno ar 4 Mawrth 2002. (NDM1015)

I will speak to the principle of the national assistance orders and the amendments tabled to both orders. The motions cover two draft orders concerning charging arrangements for those in residential care. I will speak on both orders and the tabled amendments together. Dai Lloyd, Jocelyn Davies and Geraint Davies have tabled an amendment to the assessment of resources regulations, which proposes to increase the upper capital limit to £25,000. Jonathan Morgan, David Melding and William Graham have tabled an amendment to the sums for personal requirements regulations, which proposes to increase the personal expenses allowance to £20.

Siaradaf ar egwyddor y gorchmynion cymorth gwladol ac ar y gwelliannau a gyflwynwyd i’r ddau orchymyn. Mae’r cynigion yn ymdrin â dau orchymyn drafft sy’n ymwneud â’r trefniadau i godi tâl ar gyfer y rhai mewn gofal preswyl. Siaradaf am y ddau orchymyn a’r gwelliannau a gyflwynwyd gyda’i gilydd. Mae Dai Lloyd, Jocelyn Davies a Geraint Davies wedi cyflwyno gwelliant i’r rheoliadau asesu adnoddau, sy’n cynnig codi’r terfyn cyfalaf uchaf i £25,000. Mae Jonathan Morgan, David Melding a William Graham wedi cyflwyno gwelliant i’r rheoliadau symiau at anghenion personol, sy’n cynnig codi’r lwfans treuliau personol i £20.

I will take the two draft orders in turn, first giving a brief outline of the intended effect of the regulations and then dealing with the implications of the amendments.

Cymeraf y ddau orchymyn drafft yn eu tro, gan amlinellu’n fyr yn gyntaf effaith arfaethedig y rheoliadau ac wedyn delio â goblygiadau’r gwelliannau.

Under existing primary legislation, local authorities may not contribute financially to the care costs of residents who have assets, including the value of their homes, above an upper capital limit. Between the upper capital limit and the lower capital limit, councils assume that residents can generate income at a tariff rate of £1 for every £250 of capital assets. This tariff income then becomes part of the assessed income that residents are asked to contribute to care costs. Below the lower capital limit, councils cannot ask residents to contribute to care costs from their capital resources. Last April, the Assembly introduced regulations that restored these capital limits to their 1996 real terms value. I made a commitment to keep them under review to ensure that they remained broadly in line with inflation. In line with this commitment, the National Assistance (Assessment of Resources) (Amendment) (Wales) Regulations 2002 increases the lower residential care capital limits from £11,500 to £11,750 and the upper capital limits from £18,500 to £19,000.

O dan y ddeddfwriaeth sylfaenol bresennol, ni chaiff awdurdodau lleol gyfrannu’n ariannol at gostau gofal preswylwyr sydd ag asedau, gan gynnwys gwerth eu cartrefi, uwchlaw terfyn cyfalaf uchaf. Rhwng y terfyn cyfalaf uchaf a’r terfyn cyfalaf isaf, mae’r cynghorau’n cymryd y gall preswylwyr gynhyrchu incwm ar gyfradd dariff o £1 am bob £250 o’u hasedau cyfalaf. Daw’r incwm tariff hwn wedyn yn rhan o’r incwm asesedig y gofynnir i’r preswylwyr ei gyfrannu at y costau gofal. Islaw’r terfyn cyfalaf isaf, ni all y cynghorau ofyn i breswylwyr gyfrannu at y costau gofal o’u hadnoddau cyfalaf. Fis Ebrill diwethaf, cyflwynodd y Cynulliad reoliadau a adferodd y terfynau cyfalaf hyn i’w gwerth gwirioneddol yn 1996. Gwneuthum ymrwymiad i’w cadw dan sylw i sicrhau eu bod yn aros yn weddol gyson â chwyddiant. Yn unol â’r ymrwymiad hwn, mae Rheoliadau Cymorth Gwladol (Asesu Adnoddau) (Diwygio) (Cymru) 2002 yn codi’r terfynau cyfalaf gofal preswyl isaf o £11,500 i £11,750 a’r terfynau cyfalaf uchaf o £18,500 i £19,000.

On the Plaid Cymru amendment, it does not exempt any more people from charging than proposed in the regulations tabled by the Welsh Assembly Government. However, it would extend by a further £6,000 the range over which the tariff operates. I cannot support this amendment for 2002-03. It would cost some £3.8 million for local authority budgets, which we would need to make good through a special grant during 2002-03 and which we would need to find from other Assembly programmes. The extension of the tariff and the special grants would also impose further administration and costs on local governments. In calculating the means-test, local authorities are also required to allow residents to keep an amount of their weekly income for their personal expenses for use on—

Ynghylch gwelliant Plaid Cymru, nid yw’n eithrio dim mwy o bobl o’r taliadau na’r hyn a gynigir yn y rheoliadau a gyflwynwyd gan Lywodraeth Cynulliad Cymru. Fodd bynnag, byddai’n ymestyn o £6,000 yn rhagor yr amrediad y mae’r tariff yn gweithredu drosto. Ni allaf gefnogi’r gwelliant hwn ar gyfer 2002-03. Fe gostiai oddeutu £3.8 miliwn i gyllidebau’r awdurdodau lleol, y byddai angen i ni wneud iawn amdano drwy grant arbennig yn ystod 2002-03 ac y byddai angen inni ddod o hyd iddo yn rhaglenni eraill y Cynulliad. Byddai ymestyn y tariff a’r grantiau arbennig hefyd yn gosod rhagor o weinyddu a chostau ar lywodraethau lleol. Wrth gyfrifo’r prawf moddion, mae’n ofynnol hefyd i’r awdurdodau lleol ganiatáu i’r preswylwyr gadw swm o’u hincwm wythnosol at eu treuliau personol i’w wario ar—

Ieuan Wyn Jones a gododd—

Ieuan Wyn Jones rose—

Jane Hutt spoken in English p. 44

Jane Hutt siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 44

—for use on clothing, more presents, hairdressing and stationery, which may not be spent on care for which the council has contracted.

—i’w wario ar ddillad, rhagor o anrhegion, trin gwallt a phapur ysgrifennu, na ellir ei wario ar ofal y mae’r cyngor yn ei ddarparu o dan gytundeb.

Ieuan Wyn Jones spoken in English p. 44

Ieuan Wyn Jones siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 44

I think that the Minister is aware that there is much concern in Wales that the capital limits are so low, bearing in mind the considerable increase in house prices in Wales over the last three or four years. Does she believe that raising the limit from £18,000 to £19,000 takes the substantial increases we have seen in house prices fully into account? Does she believe that an increase to a relatively modest £25,000 is a fairer reflection of the kind of increases that we have seen in recent years?

Credaf fod y Gweinidog yn ymwybodol bod llawer o bryder yng Nghymru bod y terfynau cyfalaf mor isel, gan gofio’r cynnydd sylweddol ym mhrisiau tai yng Nghymru dros y tair i bedair blynedd diwethaf. A yw’n credu bod codi’r terfyn o £18,000 i £19,000 yn rhoi sylw llawn i’r codiadau sylweddol a welsom ym mhrisiau tai? A yw’n credu bod codiad i’r swm cymharol fach o £25,000 yn adlewyrchiad tecach o’r math o godiadau a welsom yn y blynyddoedd diwethaf hyn?

Jane Hutt spoken in English p. 45

Jane Hutt siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 45

I will address that point later in my speech. To return to the means test in relation to the amount residents keep on their weekly income. That amount is laid down in regulation and has been increased annually in line with the Department for Work and Pensions uprating. The charges proposed by the draft sums for personal requirements order will increase the allowance from £16.05 to £16.80. This is a 4.7 per cent increase and is well above the rate of inflation. It also maintains the link with the benefit regime where the personal expenses allowance is an understood concept in other benefit calculations. The implications of the Conservative amendment would again involve unbudgeted and additional costs to the order of £2.7 million. That would also need to be covered in a special grant to local authorities involving additional administration. For similar reasons, I cannot support this amendment.

Ymdriniaf â’r pwynt hwnnw’n ddiweddarach yn fy araith. Gan fynd yn ôl at y prawf moddion o ran ei berthynas â’r swm y mae’r preswylwyr yn ei gadw o’u hincwm wythnosol. Pennir y swm hwnnw gan reoliadau ac fe’i codwyd bob blwyddyn yn unol ag uwchraddiad yr Adran Gwaith a Phensiynau. Bydd y taliadau a gynigir gan y gorchymyn symiau at anghenion personol drafft yn codi’r lwfans o £16.05 i £16.80. Mae hyn yn gynnydd o 4.7 y cant ac mae ymhell uwchlaw cyfradd chwyddiant. Mae hefyd yn cadw’r cysylltiad â’r gyfundrefn budd-daliadau lle y mae’r lwfans treuliau personol yn gysyniad dealledig mewn cyfrifiadau budd-dal eraill. Byddai goblygiadau gwelliant y Ceidwadwyr unwaith eto’n golygu costau ychwanegol sydd heb eu cyllidebu o tua £2.7 miliwn. Byddai angen talu am hynny hefyd drwy grant arbennig i’r awdurdodau lleol a olygai weinyddu ychwanegol. Am resymau tebyg, ni allaf gefnogi’r gwelliant hwn.

On Ieuan’s intervention, I sympathise with those who argue for a fresh look at the way we approach the setting of capital limits and the personal expense allowance. I am keen to continue examining ways of easing the pressure on people to sell their homes to pay for care. Last year, in addition to raising the capital limits, we introduced a three-month disregard for the period between someone going into long-term residential care and their capital assets being taken into account in the test of resources. I am currently considering regulations that would offer people the option of a loan for care to be charged against the value of the house as an alternative to early sale.

Ynghylch ymyriad Ieuan, yr wyf yn cydymdeimlo â’r rhai sy’n dadlau dros gymryd golwg o’r newydd ar y modd yr ydym yn pennu terfynau cyfalaf a’r lwfans treuliau personol. Yr wyf yn awyddus i barhau i archwilio dulliau o leddfu’r pwysau ar bobl i werthu eu cartrefi i dalu am ofal. Y llynedd, yn ogystal â chodi’r terfynau cyfalaf, fe gyflwynasom anwybyddiad tri mis am y cyfnod rhwng yr adeg y mae rhywun yn dechrau derbyn gofal ac adeg cymryd ei asedau cyfalaf i ystyriaeth yn y prawf adnoddau. Ar hyn o bryd, yr wyf yn ystyried rheoliadau a fyddai’n cynnig y dewis o fenthyciad ar gyfer gofal i’w godi yn erbyn gwerth y tŷ yn lle ei werthu’n gynnar.

Professor David Bell of Stirling University has undertaken work for the advisory group on the strategy for older people—which is chaired by Dr Brian Gibbons—which shows that proportionately more home owners and many homes in Wales are of lower capital value than in other parts of the UK. Also, research is underway on the financial situations of older people in Wales on behalf of the Welsh Assembly Government, Age Concern Cymru and Help the Aged.

Mae’r Athro David Bell o Brifysgol Stirling wedi gwneud gwaith ar ran y grŵp ymgynghorol ar y strategaeth i bobl hŷn—y mae Dr Brian Gibbons yn gadeirydd arno—sy’n dangos bod mwy o berchnogion tai ar gyfartaledd a bod llawer o gartrefi yng Nghymru o werth cyfalaf is nag mewn rhannau eraill o’r DU. Hefyd, mae ymchwil ar y gweill i sefyllfaoedd ariannol pobl hŷn yng Nghymru ar ran Llywodraeth Cynulliad Cymru, Gofal Henoed Cymru a Help the Aged.

In light of the findings of this research, I have asked officials to examine the arguments for, and the full implications of, uprating the capital limit and personal expenses allowance. This work will consider whether, for example, we in Wales are unduly disadvantaged by having more homeowners in low-value homes, and if so, what would be required to redress the balance. I am happy to report this to the Health and Social Services Committee later this year. It will help us in reviewing policy in the Welsh Assembly Government and in Committee, and in deciding the bids that we wish to make for the next budget planning round. We would consider this, and the uprating of personal expenses allowance, in an informed and balanced way alongside other spending priorities in the budget round. That is the responsible and reasonable approach. I call on Members to support the Regulations.

Yng ngolwg canfyddiadau’r ymchwil hwn, yr wyf wedi gofyn i’m swyddogion archwilio’r dadleuon o blaid, a holl oblygiadau, godi’r terfyn cyfalaf a’r lwfans treuliau personol. Bydd y gwaith hwn yn ystyried, er enghraifft, a ydym ni yng Nghymru o dan anfantais ormodol o gael mwy o berchnogion tai mewn tai isel eu gwerth, ac os felly, beth a fyddai’n ofynnol i gywiro’r diffyg. Byddaf yn falch o adrodd ar hyn i’r Pwyllgor Iechyd a Gwasanaethau Cymdeithasol yn ddiweddarach eleni. Bydd o gymorth inni wrth adolygu polisi yn Llywodraeth Cynulliad Cymru ac yn y Pwyllgor, ac wrth benderfynu ar y ceisiadau y dymunwn eu gwneud ar gyfer y cylch cyllideb nesaf. Byddem yn ystyried hyn, a chodi’r lwfans treuliau personol, mewn modd gwybodus a chytbwys ochr yn ochr â’r blaenoriaethau gwario eraill yn y cylch cyllideb. Dyna’r modd cyfrifol a rhesymol i fynd yn ei gylch. Galwaf ar yr Aelodau i gefnogi’r Rheoliadau.

Dafydd Elis-Thomas Y Llywydd siaradwyd yn Gymraeg t. 46

Dafydd Elis-Thomas The Presiding Officer spoken in Welsh p. 46

Cyn i mi alw Dai Lloyd, diolchaf i’r Gweinidog am drafod y ddau Reoliad a’r egwyddorion gyda’i gilydd o safbwynt y ddadl. Os yw Aelodau eraill yn dymuno dilyn yr un drefn, a chyfeirio at y gwelliannau, gellid cynnig egwyddor yr ail Reoliad a’r gwelliannau yn ffurfiol yn nes ymlaen, os yw hynny yn dderbyniol.

Before I call Dai Lloyd, I thank the Minister for discussing the Regulations and the principles together, with regard to the debate. If other Members wish to follow the same pattern, and refer to the amendments, the principle of the second Regulation and the amendments may be proposed formally later on, if that is acceptable.

David Lloyd spoken in English p. 46

David Lloyd siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 46

I propose amendment 1 in my name and those of Jocelyn Davies and Geraint Davies to NDM1014. I propose that

Cynigiaf welliant 1 yn fy enw i, Jocelyn Davies a Geraint Davies i NDM1014. Cynigiaf fod

David Lloyd (continued) spoken in English p. 47

David Lloyd (parhad) siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 47

I declare my usual interest as a member of the Swansea City and County Council. In the spirit of combining the two regulations, Plaid Cymru will support the Conservative amendment 1 to NDM1015. It is a modest change, effectively giving our elderly people in residential care £20 a week pocket money, when prices are rising for all sorts of commodities. We are talking about dignity and respect for our elderly people, and this is a modest change.

Datganaf fy muddiant arferol fel aelod o Gyngor Dinas a Sir Abertawe. O ran cyfuno’r ddau reoliad, bydd Plaid Cymru’n cefnogi gwelliant 1 y Ceidwadwyr i NDM1015. Newid cymharol fach ydyw sydd, i bob pwrpas, yn rhoi £20 o arian poced i’n pobl oedrannus mewn gofal preswyl, pan fo prisiau pob math o nwyddau’n codi. Yr ydym yn sôn am urddas a pharch i’n pobl oedrannus, a newid cymharol fach yw hwn.

On the National Assistance (Assessment of Resources) (Amendment) (Wales) Regulations 2002 principle, as Jane has said, local authorities cannot contribute financially toward the care costs of people who have assets, including their homes, above the upper capital limit of, at present, £18,500. Plaid Cymru agrees with the Royal Commission on long-term care for the elderly that the arrangements for the means test are too punitive. We support raising the upper capital limit to £25,000, as is noted in our amendment 1, and not merely raising the capital limit from £18,500 to £19,000 as the Government’s motion dictates. In other words, under Plaid Cymru’s amendment 1, elderly people with savings of up to £25,000 will qualify, so that local authorities will have to contribute to their long-term care. Below the savings threshold of £11,750, local authorities pay for all their care.

Ynghylch egwyddor Rheoliadau Cymorth Gwladol (Asesu Adnoddau) (Diwygio) (Cymru) 2002, fel y dywedodd Jane, ni all yr awdurdodau lleol gyfrannu’n ariannol at gostau gofal y rhai sydd ag asedau, gan gynnwys eu cartrefi, sy’n fwy na’r terfyn cyfalaf uchaf presennol o £18,500. Mae Plaid Cymru’n cyd-weld â’r Comisiwn Brenhinol ar ofal tymor hir i’r henoed fod trefniadau’r prawf moddion yn cosbi’n rhy llym. Yr ydym o blaid codi’r terfyn cyfalaf uchaf i £25,000, fel y nodir yn ein gwelliant 1, ac nid dim ond codi’r terfyn cyfalaf o £18,500 i £19,000 fel y mynn cynnig y Llywodraeth. Mewn geiriau eraill, o dan welliant 1 Plaid Cymru, bydd pobl oedrannus sydd â chynilion o hyd at £25,000 yn gymwys, fel y bydd yn rhaid i’r awdurdodau lleol gyfrannu at eu gofal tymor hir. O dan y trothwy cynilion o £11,750, mae’r awdurdodau lleol yn talu am y cwbl o’u gofal.

Plaid Cymru’s amendment 1 is modest, when one considers that average house prices, as Ieuan said, in Wales exceed £60,000. With ever increasing house prices there are increasing numbers of people who will not qualify for local authority assistance despite having little usable capital, because of the increasing value of their home. We believe that the Royal Commission on long-term care for the elderly’s recommendations should be enacted in full. The current system mitigates against many people who have saved carefully over the years, people who have been sensible, have planned long term, and have been thrifty and, dare I say, prudent, with their spending. Evidence presented to the Royal Commission showed that the current system demands that people of modest means make themselves poor before they are entitled to assistance from local authorities.

Mae gwelliant 1 Plaid Cymru yn rhesymol, o ystyried bod pris tŷ ar gyfartaledd yng Nghymru, fel y dywedodd Ieuan, yn fwy na £60,000. Gan fod prisiau tai’n codi’n gyson, mae nifer cynyddol o bobl na fyddant yn gymwys i dderbyn cymorth yr awdurdod lleol er mai ychydig o gyfalaf defnyddiadwy sydd ganddynt, oherwydd gwerth cynyddol eu cartref. Credwn y dylai argymhellion y Comisiwn Brenhinol ar ofal tymor hir i’r henoed gael eu gweithredu’n llawn. Mae’r system bresennol yn milwrio’n erbyn llawer o bobl sydd wedi cynilo’n ofalus dros y blynyddoedd, pobl a fu’n ddoeth, a gynlluniodd ar gyfer y tymor hir, ac a fu’n ddarbodus ac, os caf fentro dweud, yn ochelgar, wrth wario. Yr oedd y dystiolaeth a gyflwynwyd i’r Comisiwn Brenhinol yn dangos bod y system bresennol yn mynnu bod rhai sydd ag adnoddau cymharol fach yn peri iddynt eu hunain fod yn dlawd cyn iddynt gael hawl i dderbyn cymorth gan yr awdurdodau lleol.

Increasing the public subsidy, therefore, by adopting Plaid Cymru’s amendment 1 of increasing the capital limit to £25,000, will aid a greater number of people through a complex and inconsistent system. Research by the Joseph Rowntree Foundation has found that, in many cases, authorities do not monitor an individual’s assets, so that many people may have continued to be charged the full amount for care when they were in fact entitled to some state help. Passing Plaid Cymru’s amendment 1 will cost around £4 million. The Government’s proposed change from, £18,500 to £19,000, will cost £300,000. Our amendment signals how we view the funding arrangements for the long-term care of the elderly. Of making change—because we are making a change today, from £18,500 to £19,000—let us make a decent change.

Felly, bydd cynyddu’r cymhorthdal cyhoeddus, drwy fabwysiadu gwelliant 1 Plaid Cymru o godi’r terfyn cyfalaf i £25,000, yn helpu mwy o bobl drwy system gymhleth ac anghyson. Mae ymchwil gan Sefydliad Joseph Rowntree wedi canfod, mewn llawer o achosion, nad yw’r awdurdodau’n monitro asedau’r unigolyn, fel ei bod yn bosibl bod y swm llawn wedi’i godi ar lawer o bobl am eu gofal a hwythau â’r hawl, mewn gwirionedd, i dderbyn rhywfaint o gymorth gwladol. Bydd pasio gwelliant 1 Plaid Cymru’n costio tua £4 miliwn. Bydd newid arfaethedig y Llywodraeth, o £18,500 i £19,000, yn costio £300,000. Mae ein gwelliant yn dangos sut yr ydym yn edrych ar y trefniadau ariannu ar gyfer gofal tymor hir yr henoed. Os newid—oherwydd yr ydym yn gwneud newid heddiw, o £18,500 i £19,000—gadewch inni wneud newid gweddus.

The health budget has been subject to recurrent underspends of around £50 million annually. By voting for Plaid Cymru’s amendment 1, the National Assembly can demonstrate its commitment to our elderly people in residential care.

Bu tanwario rheolaidd ar y gyllideb iechyd o oddeutu £50 miliwn y flwyddyn. Drwy bleidleisio dros welliant 1 Plaid Cymru, gall y Cynulliad Cenedlaethol ddangos ei ymrwymiad i’n pobl oedrannus mewn gofal preswyl.

Peter Black spoken in English p. 48

Peter Black siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 48

I declare an interest as a member of the City and County of Swansea Council.

Datganaf fuddiant fel aelod o Gyngor Dinas a Sir Abertrawe.

I welcome the fact that Plaid Cymru and the Conservatives have tabled amendments to this motion, largely because they form part of an important debate, started by the Royal Commission on long-term care. Its recommendations have been given added weight by the decision of the Liberal Democrat/Labour partnership Government in Scotland to introduce free personal care. The Liberal Democrats are committed to implementing the Royal Commission’s recommendations on long-term care. At present, many see the system as unjust, particularly when it impacts more on people with modest assets. We, therefore, welcome the Minister’s commitment to commission research in order to inform a policy review of this issue. Too many pensioners face undue financial hardship and worry at a time when they are most vulnerable. It is regrettable, however, that Plaid Cymru and the Conservatives have—[ASSEMBLY MEMBERS: ‘Oh’.]

Croesawaf y ffaith bod Plaid Cymru a’r Ceidwadwyr wedi cyflwyno gwelliannau i’r cynnig hwn, yn bennaf am eu bod yn rhan o ddadl bwysig, a ddechreuwyd gan y Comisiwn Brenhinol ar ofal tymor hir. Rhoddwyd mwy o bwys ar ei argymhellion drwy benderfyniad Llywodraeth bartneriaeth y Democratiaid Rhyddfrydol/Llafur yn yr Alban i gyflwyno gofal personol am ddim. Mae’r Democratiaid Rhyddfrydol wedi ymrwymo i weithredu argymhellion y Comisiwn Brenhinol ar ofal tymor hir. Ar hyn o bryd, mae llawer yn ystyried y system yn un anghyfiawn, yn enwedig pan fo’n effeithio’n fwy ar bobl sydd ag asedau cymharol fach. Gan hynny, yr ydym yn croesawu ymrwymiad y Gweinidog i gomisiynu ymchwil er mwyn goleuo adolygiad polisi o’r mater hwn. Mae gormod o bensiynwyr yn wynebu caledi ariannol a gofid gormodol ar adeg pan ydynt yn fwyaf agored i niwed. Testun gofid, er hynny, yw bod Plaid Cymru a’r Ceidwadwyr wedi—[AELODAU O’R CYNULLIAD: ‘O’.]

Dafydd Elis-Thomas The Presiding Officer spoken in English p. 49

Dafydd Elis-Thomas Y Llywydd siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 49

Order.

Trefn.

Peter Black spoken in English p. 49

Peter Black siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 49

It is regrettable, however, that Plaid Cymru and the Conservatives have joined the debate late. Plaid Cymru’s general election manifesto praised the Liberal Democrat/Labour Government in Scotland and pledged to press the Westminster Government to follow suit; unusually, it made no such proposal in relation to the National Assembly. The amendments tinker at the edges without addressing the Royal Commission’s fundamental recommendations, which should be considered in the round and in the context of a full budget round, where we can make a difference.

Testun gofid, er hynny, yw bod Plaid Cymru a’r Ceidwadwyr wedi dod yn hwyr i’r ddadl. Yr oedd maniffesto etholiad cyffredinol Plaid Cymru’n canmol Llywodraeth y Democratiaid Rhyddfrydol/Llafur yn yr Alban ac yn addo pwyso ar Lywodraeth San Steffan i wneud yr un fath; yn anarferol, ni wnaeth gynnig o’r fath mewn cysylltiad â’r Cynulliad Cenedlaethol. Mae’r gwelliannau’n chwarae â’r ymylon heb ymdrin ag argymhellion sylfaenol y Comisiwn Brenhinol, y dylid eu hystyried yn eu cyfanrwydd ac yng nghyd-destun cylch cyllideb llawn, lle y gallwn wneud gwahaniaeth.

Rhodri Glyn Thomas spoken in English p. 49

Rhodri Glyn Thomas siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 49

Peter, when will you inform us of how the Liberal Democrats intend to vote on this issue?

Peter, pa bryd y dywedwch wrthym sut y bydd y Democratiaid Rhyddfrydol yn pleidleisio ar y mater hwn?

Peter Black spoken in English p. 49

Peter Black siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 49

I though I just had. The Liberal Democrats will vote against these amendments for the reasons that I have just outlined, namely that the Minister has given a commitment to consider this in the round and to consider the full issue so that we can address fundamental—[Interruption.]

Tybiais fy mod newydd wneud. Bydd y Democratiaid Rhyddfrydol yn pleidleisio’n erbyn y gwelliannau hyn am y rhesymau yr wyf newydd eu hamlinellu, sef bod y Gweinidog wedi ymrwymo i ystyried hyn yn ei gyfanrwydd ac ystyried yr holl fater fel y gallwn ymdrin —[Torri ar draws.]

Dafydd Elis-Thomas The Presiding Officer spoken in English p. 49

Dafydd Elis-Thomas Y Llywydd siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 49

Order. I must protect Peter Black’s rights to make his speech without interruption.

Trefn. Rhaid imi amddiffyn hawliau Peter Black i wneud ei araith heb ymyrraeth.

Peter Black spoken in English p. 49

Peter Black siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 49

It is strange that these amendments have been tabled when neither party raised the issue in the Health and Social Services Committee when it considered its budget priorities. It was not raised either as a priority issue during the budget debate. This issue needs proper investment, which in terms of the resources available to the Assembly is dealt with best as part of the comprehensive spending review. That is our favoured approach and I hope that the Minister will take that on board.

Mae’n rhyfedd bod y gwelliannau hyn wedi’u cyflwyno gan nad oedd y naill blaid na’r llall wedi codi’r mater yn y Pwyllgor Iechyd a Gwasanaethau Cymdeithasol pan ystyriai ei flaenoriaethau cyllideb. Nis codwyd chwaith fel mater o flaenoriaeth yn ystod y ddadl ar y gyllideb. Mae’r mater hwn yn gofyn buddsoddi priodol, a gellir ymdrin â hynny orau o ran yr adnoddau sydd ar gael i’r Cynulliad fel rhan o’r adolygiad cynhwysfawr o wariant. Dyna’r dull sy’n orau gennym ni a gobeithiaf y bydd y Gweinidog yn ystyried hynny.

I also ask the Minister to discuss with local councils the Joseph Rowntree Foundation’s research, which has shown that, in many cases, local authorities do not monitor an individual’s assets, which means that many people may be charged the full amount when they are entitled to some state help. The amendments will not improve that position nor will they do away with means testing. These issues must be tackled as part of the proposed review and I ask the Minister to confirm that that will be the case.

Yr wyf hefyd yn gofyn i’r Gweinidog drafod gyda’r cynghorau lleol ymchwil Sefydliad Joseph Rowntree, sydd wedi dangos, mewn llawer o achosion, nad yw’r awdurdodau lleol yn monitro asedau’r unigolyn, sy’n golygu ei bod yn bosibl y bydd y swm llawn yn cael ei godi ar lawer o bobl a hwythau â’r hawl i dderbyn rhywfaint o gymorth gwladol. Ni fydd y gwelliannau’n gwella’r sefyllfa honno ac ni fyddant yn cael gwared â’r prawf moddion chwaith. Rhaid mynd i’r afael â’r materion hyn fel rhan o’r adolygiad arfaethedig a gofynnaf i’r Gweinidog gadarnhau y bydd hynny’n digwydd.

David Melding spoken in English p. 50

David Melding siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 50

I propose amendment 1 in my name and those of Jonathan Morgan and William Graham to NDM1015. I propose that

Cynigiaf welliant 1 yn fy enw i, Jonathan Morgan a William Graham i NDM1015. Cynigiaf fod

David Melding (continued) spoken in English p. 50

David Melding (parhad) siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 50

In regulation 2 delete ‘£16.80’ and insert ‘£20.00’.

yn Rheoliad 2 dileer ‘£16.80’ a rhoi ‘£20.00’ yn ei le.

It is always sad to hear someone having to give a squalid excuse for not standing up to their principles. The Liberal Democrat spokesman has just stated that his party is not prepared to vote for these modest increases because they want massive changes that will cost many more millions than are proposed today. If you want a larger increase, why not take the first step today? That is what the people who usually have to listen to your guff about free personal care, Peter, will be asking you. There is a vote this morning. As Goethe said, ‘in the end is the act’. You will have to act and you should vote for these amendments.

Mae bob amser yn drist clywed rhywun sy’n gorfod rhoi esgus gwael dros beidio â sefyll dros ei egwyddorion. Mae llefarydd y Democratiaid Rhyddfrydol newydd ddweud nad yw ei blaid yn barod i bleidleisio dros y codiadau rhesymol hyn am fod arnynt eisiau newidiadau aruthrol a fydd yn costio miliynau lawer yn fwy na’r hyn a gynigir heddiw. Os ydych am gael cynnydd mwy, pam na chymerwch y cam cyntaf heddiw? Dyna’r hyn a ofynnir gan y bobl sydd fel arfer yn gorfod gwrando ar eich dwli am ofal personol am ddim, Peter. Cynhelir pleidlais y bore yma. Yn ôl Goethe, mai’ch gweithredoedd ymhlyg yn y nod. Bydd yn rhaid ichi weithredu a dylech bleidleisio dros y gwelliannau hyn.

Devolution should be about following the process of regulations. The Assembly is supposed to examine regulations and amend them if it believes them to be inappropriate. Today, Plaid Cymru and the Welsh Conservative Party are trying to be innovative in how the Assembly can work and monitor secondary legislation. The Minister, however, gives us the assumption that regulations are no more than Executive Orders. It was originally assumed that these Orders would not even come before the Assembly and would not be discussed in the Health and Social Services Committee, but would be raced through by the Executive without a scintilla of debate. That is where they started, and they assume that the Executive calls the shots. They need not go through the process of checking the financial implications, because they believe that they can present these Orders late in the day, and ask us—or not even ask us—to vote on them. They are just for us to note that they are being passed.

Dylai datganoli olygu dilyn proses rheoliadau. Mae’r Cynulliad i fod i archwilio rheoliadau a’u newid os yw’n credu eu bod yn amhriodol. Heddiw, mae Plaid Cymru a Phlaid Geidwadol Cymru’n ceisio arloesi o ran y modd y gall y Cynulliad weithio a monitro deddfwriaeth eilaidd. Fodd bynnag, mae’r Gweinidog yn cyfleu’r rhagdybiaeth i ni nad yw rheoliadau’n fawr mwy na Gorchmynion Gweithredol. Rhagdybiwyd yn wreiddiol na fyddai’r Gorchmynion hyn yn dod gerbron y Cynulliad hyd yn oed ac na fyddid yn eu trafod yn y Pwyllgor Iechyd a Gwasanaethau Cymdeithasol, ond y byddai’r Weithrediaeth yn eu brysio drwodd heb yr un iot o ddadlau yn eu cylch. Dyna oedd eu man cychwyn, ac maent yn rhagdybio mai’r Weithrediaeth sy’n dweud sut y mae pethau i fod. Nid oes angen iddynt fynd drwy’r broses o wirio’r goblygiadau ariannol, oherwydd credant y gallant gyflwyno’r Gorchmynion hyn yn hwyr, a gofyn i ni—neu beidio â gofyn i ni hyd yn oed—bleidleisio arnynt. Maent yma dim ond inni nodi eu bod yn cael eu pasio.

The Welsh Conservative Party and Plaid Cymru are at least trying to make Executive devolution work, by proposing costed amendments. Let us not forget that these changes are modest. They will have an impact on people’s lives—people who are vulnerable, or often at the end of their lives. We are talking about giving people £20 pocket money a week. Instead of doing the same as England, which is the Minister’s proposal, we will use devolution to bring additional benefit to the system.

O leiaf y mae Plaid Geidwadol Cymru a Phlaid Cymru’n ceisio peri i ddatganoli Weithredol weithio, drwy gynnig gwelliannau wedi’u prisio. Gadewch inni beidio ag anghofio mai newidiadau cymharol fach yw’r rhain. Fe gânt effaith ar fywydau pobl—pobl sy’n agored i niwed, neu’n aml ar ddiwedd eu hoes. Yr ydym yn sôn am roi £20 o arian poced yr wythnos i bobl. Yn lle gwneud yr un peth â Lloegr, sef cynnig y Gweinidog, byddwn yn defnyddio datganoli i ddod â budd ychwanegol i’r system.

Brian Gibbons spoken in English p. 51

Brian Gibbons siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 51

Will you—or maybe a member of Plaid Cymru—respond to Peter Black’s challenge on why this was not included in the budget priorities? You had ample time in which to do so, and the Minister indicated in her response to the strategy for older people many months ago that this matter would be considered. I am not impressed by David’s crocodile concern.

A wnewch chi—neu aelod o Blaid Cymru efallai—ymateb i her Peter Black ynghylch pam nad oedd hyn wedi’i gynnwys ym mlaenoriaethau’r gyllideb? Cawsoch ddigonedd o amser i wneud hynny, a nododd y Gweinidog yn ei hymateb i’r strategaeth ar gyfer pobl hŷn lawer mis yn ôl y câi’r mater hwn ei ystyried. Nid yw ffug bryder David yn gwneud argraff arnaf.

David Melding spoken in English p. 51

David Melding siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 51

Let us unravel this. The supplementary budget will be debated this morning. There are always changes to the budget: we review the position; we consider Orders; we see where we can make modest changes; we look at the Assembly’s massive underspend and make constructive comments and suggestions about how it will be used. The cheek of the Labour/Liberal administration in saying that we cannot be innovative.

Gadewch inni ddatrys hyn. Bydd dadl ar y gyllideb atodol y bore yma. Mae newidiadau i’r gyllideb bob tro; yr ydym yn adolygu’r sefyllfa; yr ydym yn ystyried Gorchmynion; yr ydym yn gweld ym mhle y gellir gwneud newidiadau rhesymol; yr ydym yn edrych ar danwariant aruthrol y Cynulliad ac yn gwneud sylwadau ac awgrymiadau adeiladol ynghylch y modd y caiff ei ddefnyddio. Y fath haerllugrwydd gan y weinyddiaeth Lafur/Rhyddfrydol wrth ddweud na chawn fod yn arloesol.

Peter Black a gododd—

Peter Black rose—

David Melding spoken in English p. 52

David Melding siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 52

I am not giving way again until I have finished this point.

Nid wyf am ildio eto nes i mi orffen y pwynt hwn.

Michael German The Leader of the Welsh Liberal Democrat Group spoken in English p. 52

Michael German Arweinydd Grŵp Democratiaid Rhyddfrydol Cymru siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 52

Point of order.

Pwynt o drefn.

Dafydd Elis-Thomas The Presiding Officer spoken in English p. 52

Dafydd Elis-Thomas Y Llywydd siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 52

Order. I will take a point of order after this speech.

Trefn. Cymeraf bwynt o drefn ar ôl yr araith hon.

David Melding spoken in English p. 52

David Melding siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 52

In the Health and Social Services Committee, both Plaid Cymru and the Conservative Party returned to this matter repeatedly. We place on record that we believe that the Assembly should determine which regime governs personal care in this country. On successive occasions, we have examined charging policies, and tried to get the Committee to have as much impact as possible on that. It is a consistent approach.

Yn y Pwyllgor Iechyd a Gwasanaethau Cymdeithasol, fe ddaeth Plaid Cymru a’r Blaid Geidwadol yn ôl at y mater hwn dro ar ôl tro. Cofnodwn ein bod yn credu mai’r Cynulliad a ddylai benderfynu pa gyfundrefn sy’n rheoli gofal personol yn y wlad hon. Dro ar ôl tro, yr ydym wedi archwilio polisïau taliadau, ac wedi ceisio cael y Pwyllgor i ddylanwadu ar hynny gymaint ag y bo modd. Mae’n ddull gweithredu cyson.

The administration cannot weasel its way out of its responsibility this morning for not voting for these modest changes, on the grounds that, somehow, we have not presented them in a full budget. I remind you that it is the Government that presents a full budget, and then amends it in light of experience, constantly making changes. For heaven’s sake, the Minister for Finance, Local Government and Communities provided a sui generis grant for chamber orchestras. I do not know if that was discussed first as a budget priority. That was an increase from zero to £150,000 for an orchestra in Swansea, and we are talking about a modest increase of £3 in the personal allowance. I will not take lectures from the Liberals and Labour. They have a chance to improve the situation of people in Wales, to make it materially better than in England, and it would be a good use of devolution. [Applause.]

Ni all y weinyddiaeth osgoi ei chyfrifoldeb y bore yma am beidio â phleidleisio dros y newidiadau rhesymol hyn, ar y sail nad ydym, rywsut, wedi’u cyflwyno mewn cyllideb lawn. Yr wyf yn eich atgoffa mai’r Llywodraeth sy’n cyflwyno cyllideb lawn, ac yn ei newid wedyn yng ngoleuni profiad, gan wneud newidiadau’n barhaus. Er mwyn y nefoedd, darparodd y Gweinidog dros Gyllid, Llywodraeth Leol a Chymunedau grant unigryw ar gyfer cerddorfeydd siambr. Ni wn a oedd hynny wedi’i drafod yn gyntaf fel blaenoriaeth cyllideb. Yr oedd hynny’n gynnydd o ddim i £150,000 ar gyfer cerddorfa yn Abertawe, ac yr ydym ni’n sôn am godiad rhesymol o £3 yn y lwfans personol. Ni chymeraf fy ngheryddu gan y Rhyddfrydwyr a Llafur. Mae ganddynt gyfle i wella sefyllfa pobl yng Nghymru, i’w gwneud yn sylweddol well nag yn Lloegr, a byddai’n ddefnydd da o ddatganoli. [Cymeradwyaeth.]

Michael German spoken in English p. 52

Michael German siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 52

Point of order. Before David gets carried away, will he reflect on your ruling on how people are referred to in this Chamber, which he abused three times in that speech?

Pwynt o drefn. Cyn i David golli arno’i hun, a wnaiff ystyried eich dyfarniad ynghylch y dull o gyfeirio at bobl yn y Siambr hon, a gamddefnyddiodd dair gwaith yn yr araith honno?

Dafydd Elis-Thomas The Presiding Officer spoken in English p. 52

Dafydd Elis-Thomas Y Llywydd siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 52

Will you clarify?

A wnewch egluro?

Michael German spoken in English p. 53

Michael German siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 53

Yes. There is a Liberal Party—he knows about it.

Gwnaf. Mae Plaid Ryddfrydol yn bod—fe ŵyr amdani.

David Melding spoken in English p. 53

David Melding siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 53

As a wicked Tory, I make a fulsome apology to the leader of the Liberal Democrat group.

Fel Tori drwg, ymddiheuraf yn llaes i arweinydd grŵp y Democratiaid Rhyddfrydol.

Gwenda Thomas spoken in English p. 53

Gwenda Thomas siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 53

Referring to the Legislation Committee report on sums for personal requirements, and in particular, to the words ‘prescribed weekly sum’, will the Minister confirm that this is the sum of money below which retirement pensions cannot be down-rated? What sum of money must not be included in any assessment of income, and what must not be used as part payment for part 3 accommodation, except with the explicit agreement of residents or their appointees?

Gan gyfeirio at adroddiad y Pwyllgor Deddfau ar y symiau at anghenion personol ac, yn enwedig, at y geiriau ‘swm wythnosol rhagnodedig’, a wnaiff y Gweinidog gadarnhau mai hwn yw’r swm o arian na ellir israddio pensiynau ymddeol odano? Pa swm o arian na ddylid ei gynnwys mewn unrhyw asesiad o incwm, a pha beth na ddylid ei ddefnyddio fel rhandaliad ar gyfer llety rhan 3, ac eithrio drwy gydsyniad pendant y preswylwyr neu’r rhai a benodir ganddynt?

Jane Hutt The Minister for Health and Social Services spoken in English p. 53

Jane Hutt Y Gweinidog dros Iechyd a Gwasanaethau Cymdeithasol siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 53

I will reply to the debate in terms of the principle and the points made. I am disappointed by David Melding’s response, but I expected that from him. He has been excited over the last days; it is the end of term. That is what this is all about. Dai Lloyd made an important point by saying that you, David, were signalling intent to raise this issue. That is the reasonable and responsible way of considering the matter. I have responded reasonably and fairly. We have been bounced into this situation, but we are undertaking research into more radical proposals for Wales than the ones that you propose. It is entirely inappropriate to jump the gun. We want to make evidence-based policy and good policy and not be bounced into anything for the sake of political opportunism. Where will you find the £3.8 million for the capital disregard and the £2.7 million for the personal expenses? What will you cut? Do you want to cut the six weeks—[Interruption.]

Ymatebaf i’r ddadl o ran yr egwyddor a’r pwyntiau a godwyd. Yr wyf wedi fy siomi ag ymateb David Melding, ond yr oeddwn yn disgwyl hynny ganddo. Mae wedi cynhyrfu dros y dyddiau diwethaf; mae’n ben tymor. Dyna achos hyn i gyd. Gwnaeth Dai Lloyd bwynt pwysig drwy ddweud eich bod chi, David, yn nodi bwriad i godi’r mater hwn. Dyna’r modd rhesymol a chyfrifol i ystyried y mater. Yr wyf wedi ymateb yn rhesymol ac yn deg. Yr ydym wedi ein gwthio i’r sefyllfa hon, ond yr ydym yn gwneud ymchwil i gynigion mwy radical i Gymru na’r rhai yr ydych chi’n eu cynnig. Mae’n gwbl amhriodol achub y blaen. Yr ydym am wneud polisi ar sail tystiolaeth a pholisi da ac nid ydym am gael ein gwthio i wneud dim er mwyn manteisiaeth wleidyddol. Ym mhle y dewch o hyd i’r £3.8 miliwn i’r anwybyddiad cyfalaf a’r £2.7 miliwn i’r treuliau personol? Beth fyddwch yn ei dorri? A ydych am dorri’r chwe wythnos—[Torri ar draws.]

Dafydd Elis-Thomas The Presiding Officer spoken in English p. 53

Dafydd Elis-Thomas Y Llywydd siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 53

Order. The Minister is replying to the debate.

Trefn. Mae’r Gweinidog yn ymateb i’r ddadl.

Jane Hutt spoken in English p. 53

Jane Hutt siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 53

Do you want to cut the six weeks free home care that we are introducing on 1 April? Do you want to delay that? Do you want to cut the CT scanners that we are funding as a result of our good financial management?

A ydych am dorri’r chwe wythnos o ofal am ddim yn y cartref yr ydym yn ei gyflwyno ar 1 Ebrill? A ydych am ohirio hynny? A ydych am dorri’r sganwyr CT yr ydym yn eu hariannu o ganlyniad i’n rheolaeth ariannol dda?

Phil Williams spoken in English p. 54

Phil Williams siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 54

Will you comment on the underspend of £54 million in the appropriate budget heading last year? Funding is not the problem.

A wnewch sylw ar y tanwariant o £54 miliwn o dan y pennawd cyllideb priodol y llynedd? Nid ariannu yw’r broblem.

Jane Hutt spoken in English p. 54

Jane Hutt siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 54

As Dafydd Wigley said, we need financial management so that we have projects on the stock. The £48 million that Edwina Hart made available for our all-Wales capital renewal scheme, enabled us to spend the money in the health service. As colleagues on the Health and Social Services Committee will know, we are spending up to the hilt on our £3.6 billion budget for next year for the health service. What would you cut in the budget for political opportunism?

Fel y dywedodd Dafydd Wigley, mae arnom angen rheolaeth ariannol dda fel bod gennym brosiectau ar gael. Mae’r £48 miliwn a ddarparodd Edwina Hart i’n cynllun adnewyddu cyfalaf i Gymru gyfan, wedi’n galluogi i wario’r arian yn y gwasanaeth iechyd. Fel y gŵyr fy nghyd-Aelodau ar y Pwyllgor Iechyd a Gwasanaethau Cymdeithasol, yr ydym yn gwario hyd yr eithaf ar ein cyllideb £3.6 biliwn am y flwyddyn nesaf i’r gwasanaeth iechyd. Beth fyddech yn ei dorri yn y gyllideb er mwyn manteisiaeth wleidyddol?

David, it was never intended for these Orders to be subject to the Executive procedure. These Orders were sent to the Business Committee for discussion according to the procedure. The Business Committee decided that they should be discussed in the Health and Social Services Committee—

David, nid oedd erioed fwriad i’r Gorchmynion hyn fynd drwy’r weithdrefn Weithredol. Anfonwyd y Gorchmynion hyn at y Pwyllgor Busnes i’w trafod yn unol â’r weithdrefn. Penderfynodd y Pwyllgor Busnes y dylent gael eu trafod yn y Pwyllgor Iechyd a Gwasanaethau Cymdeithasol—

David Melding spoken in English p. 54

David Melding siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 54

You are right; that was not Executive procedure. You recommended accelerated procedure. Will you confirm on the record that the Orders would not have been subject to debate in Plenary?

Yr ydych yn iawn; nid y weithdrefn Weithredol oedd honno. Yr oeddech wedi argymell y weithdrefn gyflym. A wnewch gadarnhau ar y cofnod na fuasai dadl ar y Gorchmynion yn y Cyfarfod Llawn?

Jane Hutt spoken in English p. 54

Jane Hutt siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 54

You challenged me on the Executive procedure. I never intended for these Orders to be subject to Executive procedure. We had a debate on the Orders when the Health and Social Services Committee met in Rhyl, which was enjoyable. I provided you with the costing for the higher increases, as proposed in the draft regulations. I also wrote to Kirsty Williams and Committee members giving details of that. We must ensure that the concept of the allowance of the personal expenses occurs elsewhere in the benefit system. Those draft Orders must be affordable. The proposed increases represent what the Assembly allowed for in last year’s budget. It goes back to Brian Gibbons’s point. It is in the budget planning round that I would have hoped to have seen a Plaid Cymru—Welsh Conservatives alliance, which now seems to have formed in this Assembly. At that time—

Bu i chi fy herio ar y weithdrefn Weithredol. Nid oeddwn erioed wedi bwriadu i’r Gorchmynion hyn fynd drwy’r weithdrefn Weithredol. Cawsom ddadl ar y Gorchmynion pan gyfarfu’r Pwyllgor Iechyd a Gwasanaethau Cymdeithasol yn y Rhyl, a bu hynny’n bleser. Rhoddais y prisiau i chi am y codiadau uwch, fel y’u cynigiwyd yn y rheoliadau drafft. Ysgrifennais hefyd at Kirsty Williams ac aelodau’r Pwyllgor gan roi manylion am hynny. Rhaid inni sicrhau bod cysyniad y lwfans treuliau personol yn digwydd mewn mannau eraill yn y system budd-daliadau. Rhaid i’r Gorchmynion drafft hynny fod yn fforddiadwy. Y codiadau a gynigir yw’r hyn y mae’r Cynulliad wedi darparu ar ei gyfer yng nghyllideb y llynedd. Mae hyn yn mynd yn ôl at bwynt Brian Gibbons. Yn y cylch cynllunio cyllideb y byddwn wedi gobeithio gweld cynghrair Plaid Cymru—Ceidwadwyr Cymru, y mae’n ymddangos bellach ei bod wedi ymffurfio yn y Cynulliad hwn. Bryd hynny—

Dafydd Elis-Thomas The Presiding Officer spoken in English p. 55

Dafydd Elis-Thomas Y Llywydd siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 55

Order.

Trefn.

Jane Hutt spoken in English p. 55

Jane Hutt siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 55

Your minority party wants to be part of Plaid Cymru on this, but David, are you comfortable in this alliance at the end of this term when the Welsh Assembly Government is putting an extra £1 billion into the health service? What about the National Health Service and Community Care Act 1990 that your party introduced? We are still suffering after the 18 years of underinvestment in health and social care. That Act landed us in this situation in terms of the market place and lack of investment in health and social care.

Mae’ch plaid leiafrifol am fod yn rhan o Blaid Cymru ar hyn, ond David, a ydych yn gyfforddus yn y gynghrair hon ar ddiwedd y tymor hwn pan fo Llywodraeth Cynulliad Cymru yn rhoi £1 biliwn ychwanegol at y gwasanaeth iechyd? Beth am y Ddeddf Gwasanaeth Iechyd Gwladol a Gofal Cymunedol 1990 a gyflwynwyd gan eich plaid chi? Yr ydym yn dal i ddioddef ar ôl y 18 mlynedd o danfuddsoddi mewn iechyd a gofal cymdeithasol. Y Ddeddf honno a’n gadawodd yn y sefyllfa hon o ran y farchnad a’r diffyg buddsoddi mewn iechyd a gofal cymdeithasol.

David Melding a gododd—

David Melding rose—

Dafydd Elis-Thomas The Presiding Officer spoken in English p. 55

Dafydd Elis-Thomas Y Llywydd siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 55

Order. The Minister is not giving way.

Trefn. Nid yw’r Gweinidog yn ildio.

Jane Hutt spoken in English p. 55

Jane Hutt siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 55

You should take responsibility for what your Government did during those 18 years. The Labour/Liberal Democrat partnership Government in the Assembly is taking responsibility to ensure that the people who are helping us deliver and develop policy—which includes everyone engaged in Brian’s strategy group—are considering the needs of the elderly in Wales. We are taking that responsibility. We are not bouncing into things or jumping the gun. As I have reasonably said, research is being undertaken, and I appreciate Peter Black’s point on this. I will look more specifically into the issues raised by Gwenda Thomas, as they are fairly detailed, and come back to her in due course.

Dylech dderbyn y cyfrifoldeb am yr hyn a wnaeth eich Llywodraeth yn ystod y 18 mlynedd hynny. Mae’r Llywodraeth bartneriaeth Llafur/Democratiaid Rhyddfrydol yn y Cynulliad yn derbyn y cyfrifoldeb dros sicrhau bod y rhai sy’n ein helpu i gyflawni a datblygu polisi—sy’n cynnwys pawb sy’n cymryd rhan yng ngrŵp strategaeth Brian—yn ystyried anghenion yr henoed yng Nghymru. Yr ydym yn derbyn y cyfrifoldeb hwnnw. Nid ydym yn neidio i bethau neu’n achub y blaen. Fel y dywedais yn rhesymol, mae ymchwil ar y gweill, a gwerthfawrogaf bwynt Peter Black ar hynny. Ymchwiliaf yn fwy penodol i’r materion a godwyd gan Gwenda Thomas, gan eu bod yn eithaf manwl, a deuaf yn ôl ati gyda hyn.

Dafydd Elis-Thomas Y Llywydd siaradwyd yn Gymraeg t. 55

Dafydd Elis-Thomas The Presiding Officer spoken in Welsh p. 55

Galwaf am bleidlais ar egwyddor y Rheoliadau Cymorth Gwladol (Asesu Adnoddau) (Diwygio) (Cymru) 2002.

I call for a vote on the principle of the National Assistance (Assessment of Resources) (Amendment) (Wales) Regulations 2002.

DerbyniwydAdopted O blaidFor 50 YmatalAbstain 0 Yn erbynAgainst 0

Derbyniwyd y cynnig.

Motion carried.

Sut y pleidleisiodd yr AelodauHow Members voted
O blaidFor (50)
  • Lorraine Barrett
  • Mick Bates
  • Peter Black
  • Eleanor Burnham
  • Rosemary Butler
  • Alun Cairns
  • Christine Chapman
  • Cynog Dafis
  • Jane Davidson
  • Andrew Davies
  • David Davies
  • Geraint Davies
  • Janet Davies
  • Jocelyn Davies
  • Sue Essex
  • Delyth Evans
  • Michael German
  • Brian Gibbons
  • William Graham
  • Janice Gregory
  • John Griffiths
  • Alison Halford
  • Brian Hancock
  • Edwina Hart
  • Jane Hutt
  • Pauline Jarman
  • Ann Jones
  • Carwyn Jones
  • Elin Jones
  • Gareth Jones
  • Helen Mary Jones
  • Ieuan Wyn Jones
  • Peter Law
  • Huw Lewis
  • David Lloyd
  • Val Lloyd
  • David Melding
  • Tom Middlehurst
  • Jonathan Morgan
  • Rhodri Morgan
  • Alun Pugh
  • Jenny Randerson
  • Rod Richards
  • Janet Ryder
  • Karen Sinclair
  • Gwenda Thomas
  • Owen John Thomas
  • Rhodri Glyn Thomas
  • Dafydd Wigley
  • Phil Williams

Dafydd Elis-Thomas Y Llywydd siaradwyd yn Gymraeg t. 56

Dafydd Elis-Thomas The Presiding Officer spoken in Welsh p. 56

Galwaf am bleidlais ar welliant 1 i NDM1014.

I call for a vote on amendment 1 to NDM1014.

Gwelliant 1 David Lloyd t. 56

Amendment 1 David Lloyd p. 56

GwrthodwydRejected O blaidFor 22 YmatalAbstain 0 Yn erbynAgainst 28

Gwrthodwyd y gwelliant.

Amendment defeated.

Sut y pleidleisiodd yr AelodauHow Members voted
O blaidFor (22)
  • Alun Cairns
  • Cynog Dafis
  • David Davies
  • Geraint Davies
  • Janet Davies
  • Jocelyn Davies
  • William Graham
  • Brian Hancock
  • Pauline Jarman
  • Elin Jones
  • Gareth Jones
  • Helen Mary Jones
  • Ieuan Wyn Jones
  • David Lloyd
  • David Melding
  • Jonathan Morgan
  • Rod Richards
  • Janet Ryder
  • Owen John Thomas
  • Rhodri Glyn Thomas
  • Dafydd Wigley
  • Phil Williams
Yn erbynAgainst (28)
  • Lorraine Barrett
  • Mick Bates
  • Peter Black
  • Eleanor Burnham
  • Rosemary Butler
  • Christine Chapman
  • Jane Davidson
  • Andrew Davies
  • Sue Essex
  • Delyth Evans
  • Michael German
  • Brian Gibbons
  • Janice Gregory
  • John Griffiths
  • Alison Halford
  • Edwina Hart
  • Jane Hutt
  • Ann Jones
  • Carwyn Jones
  • Peter Law
  • Huw Lewis
  • Val Lloyd
  • Tom Middlehurst
  • Rhodri Morgan
  • Alun Pugh
  • Jenny Randerson
  • Karen Sinclair
  • Gwenda Thomas

Dafydd Elis-Thomas Y Llywydd siaradwyd yn Gymraeg t. 57

Dafydd Elis-Thomas The Presiding Officer spoken in Welsh p. 57

Galwaf am bleidlais ar NDM1014.

I call for a vote on NDM1014.

Cynnig t. 57

Motion p. 57

DerbyniwydAdopted O blaidFor 44 YmatalAbstain 0 Yn erbynAgainst 6

Derbyniwyd y cynnig.

Motion carried.

Sut y pleidleisiodd yr AelodauHow Members voted
O blaidFor (44)
  • Lorraine Barrett
  • Mick Bates
  • Peter Black
  • Eleanor Burnham
  • Rosemary Butler
  • Christine Chapman
  • Cynog Dafis
  • Jane Davidson
  • Andrew Davies
  • Geraint Davies
  • Janet Davies
  • Jocelyn Davies
  • Sue Essex
  • Delyth Evans
  • Michael German
  • Brian Gibbons
  • Janice Gregory
  • John Griffiths
  • Alison Halford
  • Brian Hancock
  • Edwina Hart
  • Jane Hutt
  • Pauline Jarman
  • Ann Jones
  • Carwyn Jones
  • Elin Jones
  • Gareth Jones
  • Helen Mary Jones
  • Ieuan Wyn Jones
  • David Lloyd
  • Val Lloyd
  • Peter Law
  • Huw Lewis
  • Tom Middlehurst
  • Rhodri Morgan
  • Alun Pugh
  • Jenny Randerson
  • Janet Ryder
  • Karen Sinclair
  • Gwenda Thomas
  • Owen John Thomas
  • Rhodri Glyn Thomas
  • Dafydd Wigley
  • Phil Williams
Yn erbynAgainst (6)
  • Alun Cairns
  • David Davies
  • William Graham
  • David Melding
  • Jonathan Morgan
  • Rod Richards

Dafydd Elis-Thomas Y Llywydd siaradwyd yn Gymraeg t. 58

Dafydd Elis-Thomas The Presiding Officer spoken in Welsh p. 58

Galwaf am bleidlais ar egwyddor Rheoliadau Cymorth Gwladol (Symiau at Anghenion Personol) (Cymru) 2002.

I call for a vote on the principle of the National Assistance (Sums for Personal Requirements) (Wales) Regulations 2002.

DerbyniwydAdopted O blaidFor 50 YmatalAbstain 0 Yn erbynAgainst 0

Derbyniwyd y cynnig.

Motion carried.

Sut y pleidleisiodd yr AelodauHow Members voted
O blaidFor (50)
  • Lorraine Barrett
  • Mick Bates
  • Peter Black
  • Eleanor Burnham
  • Rosemary Butler
  • Alun Cairns
  • Christine Chapman
  • Cynog Dafis
  • Jane Davidson
  • Andrew Davies
  • David Davies
  • Geraint Davies
  • Janet Davies
  • Jocelyn Davies
  • Sue Essex
  • Delyth Evans
  • Michael German
  • Brian Gibbons
  • William Graham
  • Janice Gregory
  • John Griffiths
  • Alison Halford
  • Brian Hancock
  • Edwina Hart
  • Jane Hutt
  • Pauline Jarman
  • Ann Jones
  • Carwyn Jones
  • Elin Jones
  • Gareth Jones
  • Helen Mary Jones
  • Ieuan Wyn Jones
  • Peter Law
  • Huw Lewis
  • David Lloyd
  • Val Lloyd
  • David Melding
  • Tom Middlehurst
  • Jonathan Morgan
  • Rhodri Morgan
  • Alun Pugh
  • Jenny Randerson
  • Rod Richards
  • Janet Ryder
  • Karen Sinclair
  • Gwenda Thomas
  • Owen John Thomas
  • Rhodri Glyn Thomas
  • Dafydd Wigley
  • Phil Williams

Dafydd Elis-Thomas Y Llywydd siaradwyd yn Gymraeg t. 59

Dafydd Elis-Thomas The Presiding Officer spoken in Welsh p. 59

Galwaf am bleidlais ar welliant 1 i NDM1015.

I call for a vote on amendment 1 to NDM1015.

Gwelliant 1 David Melding t. 59

Amendment 1 David Melding p. 59

GwrthodwydRejected O blaidFor 22 YmatalAbstain 0 Yn erbynAgainst 28

Gwrthodwyd y gwelliant.

Amendment defeated.

Sut y pleidleisiodd yr AelodauHow Members voted
O blaidFor (22)
  • Alun Cairns
  • Cynog Dafis
  • David Davies
  • Geraint Davies
  • Janet Davies
  • Jocelyn Davies
  • William Graham
  • Brian Hancock
  • Pauline Jarman
  • Elin Jones
  • Gareth Jones
  • Helen Mary Jones
  • Ieuan Wyn Jones
  • David Lloyd
  • David Melding
  • Jonathan Morgan
  • Rod Richards
  • Janet Ryder
  • Owen John Thomas
  • Rhodri Glyn Thomas
  • Dafydd Wigley
  • Phil Williams
Yn erbynAgainst (28)
  • Lorraine Barrett
  • Mick Bates
  • Peter Black
  • Eleanor Burnham
  • Rosemary Butler
  • Christine Chapman
  • Jane Davidson
  • Andrew Davies
  • Sue Essex
  • Delyth Evans
  • Michael German
  • Brian Gibbons
  • Janice Gregory
  • John Griffiths
  • Alison Halford
  • Edwina Hart
  • Jane Hutt
  • Ann Jones
  • Carwyn Jones
  • Peter Law
  • Huw Lewis
  • Val Lloyd
  • Tom Middlehurst
  • Rhodri Morgan
  • Alun Pugh
  • Jenny Randerson
  • Karen Sinclair
  • Gwenda Thomas

Dafydd Elis-Thomas Y Llywydd siaradwyd yn Gymraeg t. 60

Dafydd Elis-Thomas The Presiding Officer spoken in Welsh p. 60

Galwaf am bleidlais ar NDM1015.

I call for a vote on NDM1015.

Cynnig t. 60

Motion p. 60

DerbyniwydAdopted O blaidFor 44 YmatalAbstain 0 Yn erbynAgainst 6

Derbyniwyd y cynnig.

Motion carried.

Sut y pleidleisiodd yr AelodauHow Members voted
O blaidFor (44)
  • Lorraine Barrett
  • Mick Bates
  • Peter Black
  • Eleanor Burnham
  • Rosemary Butler
  • Christine Chapman
  • Cynog Dafis
  • Jane Davidson
  • Andrew Davies
  • Geraint Davies
  • Janet Davies
  • Jocelyn Davies
  • Sue Essex
  • Delyth Evans
  • Michael German
  • Brian Gibbons
  • Janice Gregory
  • John Griffiths
  • Alison Halford
  • Brian Hancock
  • Edwina Hart
  • Jane Hutt
  • Pauline Jarman
  • Ann Jones
  • Carwyn Jones
  • Elin Jones
  • Gareth Jones
  • Helen Mary Jones
  • Ieuan Wyn Jones
  • David Lloyd
  • Val Lloyd
  • Peter Law
  • Huw Lewis
  • Tom Middlehurst
  • Rhodri Morgan
  • Alun Pugh
  • Jenny Randerson
  • Janet Ryder
  • Karen Sinclair
  • Gwenda Thomas
  • Owen John Thomas
  • Rhodri Glyn Thomas
  • Dafydd Wigley
  • Phil Williams
Yn erbynAgainst (6)
  • Alun Cairns
  • David Davies
  • William Graham
  • David Melding
  • Jonathan Morgan
  • Rod Richards

Cymeradwyo Gorchymyn y Gynddaredd (Mewnforio Cŵn, Cathod a Mamaliaid Eraill) (Diwygiad) (Cymru) 2002

Approval of the Rabies (Importation of Dogs, Cats and Other Mammals) (Amendment) (Wales) Order 2002

Carwyn Jones The Minister for Rural Affairs and Assembly Business spoken in English p. 61

Carwyn Jones Y Gweinidog dros Faterion Gwledig a Threfnydd y Cynulliad siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 61

I propose that

Cynigiaf fod

Carwyn Jones The Minister for Rural Affairs and Assembly Business (continued) spoken in English p. 61

Carwyn Jones Y Gweinidog dros Faterion Gwledig a Threfnydd y Cynulliad (parhad) siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 61

I was informed this morning that the premises that would be affected by this Order is partially in my constituency. I assumed that it was in the Ogmore constituency. However, it is right that I make that declaration now. I consulted the Ministerial Code and discussed it with the First Minister, and I propose to take this matter forward because what is proposed this morning will simply bring Wales into line with England on a legislative anomaly that has occurred over a short period of time.

Cefais wybod y bore yma bod yr adeilad a effeithid gan y Gorchymyn hwn yn rhannol yn fy etholaeth i. Yr oeddwn wedi cymryd ei fod yn etholaeth Ogwr. Fodd bynnag, mae’n briodol y dylwn ddatgan hynny’n awr. Cyfeiriais at God y Gweinidogion ac fe’i trafodais â Phrif Weinidog Cymru, a bwriadaf fynd ymlaen â’r mater hwn oherwydd ni fydd yr hyn a gynigir y bore yma ond yn cysoni Cymru â Lloegr ar anghysonder deddfwriaethol a ddigwyddodd dros gyfnod byr.

The rules on the import and quarantine of cats and dogs in the UK are governed by the Rabies (Importation of Dogs, Cats and other Mammals) Order 1974. In England, these rules were modified by the Pet Travel Scheme (Pilot Arrangements) (England) Order 1999, and Wales now needs to legislate to put quarantine release arrangements on the same footing as those of England. This Order would allow the early release of pets that have been imported into the UK and quarantined in Wales. The National Assembly for Wales would only allow this if a pet meets certain requirements, namely, that it has been fitted with a microchip, vaccinated against rabies, and blood-tested so that it can be shown to have been treated against tapeworm and ticks; that it has been issued with the official pet travel scheme certificate; and that it has travelled to the UK along approved routes. The owners must also complete a declaration of residence stating that their pet has not been outside the countries and territories qualifying for the pets travel scheme in the six months before it enters the UK.

Llywodraethir y rheolau ar fewnforio a rhoi cathod a chŵn mewn cwarantin yn y DU gan Orchymyn y Gynddaredd (Mewnforio Cŵn, Cathod a Mamaliaid Eraill) 1974. Yn Lloegr, newidiwyd y rheolau hyn gan y Pet Travel Scheme (Pilot Arrangements) (England) Order 1999, ac yn awr mae angen i Gymru ddeddfu i roi’r trefniadau rhyddhau o gwarantin ar yr un sail â rhai Lloegr. Byddai’r Gorchymyn hwn yn caniatáu rhyddhau’n gynnar anifeiliaid anwes sydd wedi’u mewnforio i’r DU a’u rhoi mewn cwarantin yng Nghymru. Ni fyddai Cynulliad Cenedlaethol Cymru ond yn caniatáu hyn os yw anifail anwes yn bodloni gofynion penodol, sef, bod meicrosglodyn wedi’i osod arno, ei fod wedi’i frechu rhag y gynddaredd, a bod ei waed wedi’i brofi fel bod modd dangos ei fod wedi’i drin rhag llyngyr rhuban a throgod; bod tystysgrif swyddogol y cynllun teithio anifeiliaid anwes wedi’i roi ar ei gyfer; a’i fod wedi teithio i’r DU ar hyd llwybrau cymeradwyedig. Rhaid i’r perchnogion hefyd gwblhau datganiad preswyliad sy’n datgan na fu eu hanifail anwes y tu allan i’r gwledydd a’r tiriogaethau sy’n gymwys i’r cynllun teithio anifeiliaid anwes yn y chwe mis cyn iddo ddod i’r DU.

Pets entering England that do not meet all these requirements must be licensed into quarantine. An animal in quarantine in England can become eligible for early release—mammalian parole, if you like—from the date it can be shown to comply with all the requirements of the scheme. However, at present, there are no direct importation routes into Wales, and animals quarantined in Wales will have entered through ports and airports in England. Those wishing to operate quarantine premises in Wales are currently not permitted to offer early release, which puts them at a disadvantage compared to England. This is why this Order is proposed. At present, there is one facility for quarantined cats in Wales, and the proposed legislation will provide for animals brought into England but quarantined in Wales. Therefore, the legislation brings us into line with what has already happened in England, and allows for the early release of pets.

Rhaid i anifeiliaid anwes a ddaw i Loegr nad ydynt yn bodloni’r gofynion hyn gael eu rhoi o dan drwydded mewn cwarantin. Gall anifail mewn cwarantin yn Lloegr ddod yn gymwys i’w ryddhau’n gynnar—parôl mamalaidd, os hoffech—oddi ar y dyddiad y gellir dangos ei fod yn cydymffurfio â holl ofynion y cynllun. Fodd bynnag, ar hyn o bryd, nid oes llwybrau mewnforio uniongyrchol i Gymru, a bydd anifeiliaid mewn cwarantin yng Nghymru wedi dod drwy borthladdoedd a meysydd awyr yn Lloegr. Ar hyn o bryd, ni chaniateir i’r rhai sy’n dymuno cynnal adeilad cwarantin yng Nghymru gynnig rhyddhau cynnar, sy’n eu rhoi o dan anfantais o’i gymharu â Lloegr. Dyna pam y cynigir y Gorchymyn hwn. Ar hyn o bryd, mae un cyfleuster i gathod a roddwyd mewn cwarantin yng Nghymru, a bydd y ddeddfwriaeth arfaethedig yn darparu ar gyfer anifeiliaid a ddygir i Loegr ond a roddir mewn cwarantin yng Nghymru. Felly, mae’r ddeddfwriaeth yn ein cysoni â’r hyn a ddigwyddodd eisoes yn Lloegr, ac yn caniatáu rhyddhau anifeiliaid anwes yn gynnar.

Rod Richards spoken in English p. 62

Rod Richards siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 62

Will you give way?

A wnewch ildio?

Dafydd Elis-Thomas The Presiding Officer spoken in English p. 62

Dafydd Elis-Thomas Y Llywydd siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 62

Order. The Minister has sat down.

Trefn. Mae’r Gweinidog wedi eistedd.

Rhodri Glyn Thomas siaradwyd yn Gymraeg t. 62

Rhodri Glyn Thomas spoken in Welsh p. 62

Mae’n bwysig i’r Gorchymyn hwn gael ei dderbyn er mwyn unioni’r sefyllfa a sicrhau cysondeb. Mae’n fater o bwys, ac mae’n bwysig bod y Gweinidog, wrth gyflwyno’r Gorchymyn, wedi pwysleisio’r angen i ddiogelu iechyd y cyhoedd yn y sefyllfa hon. Er hynny, sylweddolwn hefyd y gall biwrocratiaeth o’r fath greu trafferthion i berchnogion anifeiliaid. Yr ydym yn fodlon cefnogi’r Gorchymyn, serch hynny, ac yr ydym yn hapus bod diogelwch iechyd y cyhoedd wedi ei amddiffyn.

It is important that this Order is adopted so that we rectify the situation and ensure consistency. It is an important matter, and it is important that the Minister, in proposing the Order, emphasised the need to safeguard public health in this respect. Having said that, we also realise that this sort of bureaucracy can often cause problems for animal owners. However, we are happy to support the Order, and are satisfied that public health is being protected.

Rod Richards spoken in English p. 62

Rod Richards siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 62

I have two points. First, I am delighted to hear that there is a way out of quarantine for mammals—eventually. Secondly, given that fox hunting is currently such an important issue, what provisions are there to quarantine foxes, or, if foxes were to contract this particular disease, to decrease their numbers by hunting with hounds?

Mae gennyf ddau bwynt. Yn gyntaf, yr wyf yn falch iawn o glywed bod ffordd allan o gwarantin i famaliaid—yn y pen draw. Yn ail, gan fod hela llwynogod yn bwnc mor bwysig ar hyn o bryd, pa ddarpariaethau a geir i roi llwynogod mewn cwarantin, neu, pe byddai llwynogod yn cael y clefyd penodol hwn, i leihau eu niferoedd drwy eu hela â bytheiaid?

Dafydd Elis-Thomas The Presiding Officer spoken in English p. 63

Dafydd Elis-Thomas Y Llywydd siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 63

Order. I do not believe that this is relevant to the Order, unless the Minister believes otherwise.

Trefn. Ni chredaf fod hyn yn berthnasol i’r Gorchymyn, oni bai fod y Gweinidog yn credu fel arall.

Carwyn Jones The Minister for Rural Affairs and Assembly Business spoken in English p. 63

Carwyn Jones Y Gweinidog dros Faterion Gwledig a Threfnydd y Cynulliad siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 63

I am not aware of any foxes being imported into this country. However, should the Member have any information on this, I would be grateful to receive it.

Ni wn am fewnforio unrhyw lwynogod i’r wlad hon. Er hynny, os oes gan yr Aelod unrhyw wybodaeth am hyn, byddwn yn ddiolchgar o’i chael.

Cynnig NDM1019 Carwyn Jones t. 63

Motion NDM1019 Carwyn Jones p. 63

DerbyniwydAdopted O blaidFor 45 YmatalAbstain 0 Yn erbynAgainst 0

Derbyniwyd y cynnig.

Motion carried.

Sut y pleidleisiodd yr AelodauHow Members voted
O blaidFor (45)
  • Lorraine Barrett
  • Mick Bates
  • Peter Black
  • Eleanor Burnham
  • Rosemary Butler
  • Alun Cairns
  • Christine Chapman
  • Jane Davidson
  • Andrew Davies
  • David Davies
  • Geraint Davies
  • Janet Davies
  • Jocelyn Davies
  • Sue Essex
  • Delyth Evans
  • Michael German
  • Brian Gibbons
  • William Graham
  • Janice Gregory
  • John Griffiths
  • Alison Halford
  • Brian Hancock
  • Edwina Hart
  • Jane Hutt
  • Pauline Jarman
  • Ann Jones
  • Carwyn Jones
  • Peter Law
  • Huw Lewis
  • David Lloyd
  • Val Lloyd
  • David Melding
  • Tom Middlehurst
  • Jonathan Morgan
  • Rhodri Morgan
  • Alun Pugh
  • Jenny Randerson
  • Rod Richards
  • Janet Ryder
  • Karen Sinclair
  • Gwenda Thomas
  • Owen John Thomas
  • Rhodri Glyn Thomas
  • Dafydd Wigley
  • Phil Williams

Cymeradwyo’r Gyllideb Atodol

Approval of the Supplementary Budget

Edwina Hart The Minister for Finance, Local Government and Communities spoken in English p. 64

Edwina Hart Y Gweinidog dros Gyllid, Llywodraeth Leol a Chymunedau siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 64

I propose that

Cynigiaf fod

Edwina Hart The Minister for Finance, Local Government and Communities (continued) spoken in English p. 64

Edwina Hart Y Gweinidog dros Gyllid, Llywodraeth Leol a Chymunedau (parhad) siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 64

The supplementary budget takes account of adjustments to our resources as a result of the announcements made in the Chancellor of the Exchequer’s pre-budget statement last November, as well other changes of a purely technical nature.

Mae’r gyllideb atodol yn cymryd i ystyriaeth y newidiadau i’n hadnoddau o ganlyniad i’r cyhoeddiadau yn natganiad rhag-gyllidebol Canghellor y Trysorlys fis Tachwedd diwethaf, yn ogystal â newidiadau eraill cwbl dechnegol.

Ordinarily, my supplementary budget would reflect the changes announced in the Chancellor’s March budget. However, his budget this year will not be delivered until 17 April. As a result, and dependent upon the outcome, I will consider whether there is a need for me to propose an in-year motion to allocate any additional moneys for 2002-03. Any additional funding for future years will be considered as part of our normal budget planning process, which starts in May.

Fel arfer, byddai fy nghyllideb atodol yn adlewyrchu’r newidiadau a gyhoeddwyd yng nghyllideb y Canghellor ym mis Mawrth. Fodd bynnag, ni thraddodir ei gyllideb eleni hyd 17 Ebrill. Oherwydd hynny, ac yn amodol ar y canlyniad, byddaf yn ystyried a oes angen imi gynnig cynnig o fewn y flwyddyn i ddyrannu unrhyw arian ychwanegol ar gyfer 2002-03. Ystyrir unrhyw gyllid ychwanegol at flynyddoedd i ddod fel rhan o’n proses cynllunio cyllideb arferol, sy’n dechrau ym mis Mai.

Last November’s pre-budget statement provided an additional £49 million to our departmental expenditure limit. We have also received consequentials as a result of increases in education expenditure in England, increasing our DEL limit by more than £1 million in 2002-03, and £2 million in 2003-04. In the spirit of devolution, decisions on how to allocate these additions to our DEL have been made after careful consideration of Welsh priorities and needs. You will have noticed from the detailed budget table that I published last week that the majority of this additional money, some £49 million, has been allocated to the health and social services budget, providing a significant boost to health spending next year. Of the £49 million, I have allocated an additional £5 million to support the elderly and those in long-term care, and to help local authorities commission additional residential nursing care capacity. I have been in close contact with Jane Hutt and local government representatives on this matter.

Yn y datganiad rhag-gyllidebol fis Tachwedd diwethaf rhoddwyd £49 miliwn ychwanegol at ein terfyn gwariant adrannol. Yr ydym hefyd wedi derbyn symiau canlyniadol o ganlyniad i godiadau mewn gwariant ar addysg yn Lloegr, gan godi ein terfyn gwariant adrannol o fwy nag £1 filiwn yn 2002-03, a £2 filiwn yn 2003-04. Gan ddilyn ysbryd datganoli, gwnaethpwyd y penderfyniadau ar sut i ddyrannu’r ychwanegiadau hyn at ein terfyn gwariant adrannol ar ôl ystyried blaenoriaethau ac anghenion Cymru’n ofalus. Byddwch wedi sylwi oddi wrth y tabl cyllideb manwl a gyhoeddais yr wythnos diwethaf fod y rhan fwyaf o’r arian ychwanegol hwn, tua £49 miliwn, wedi’i ddyrannu i’r gyllideb iechyd a gwasanaethau cymdeithasol, gan roi hwb sylweddol i’r gwariant ar iechyd y flwyddyn nesaf. O’r £49 miliwn, yr wyf wedi dyrannu £5 miliwn ychwanegol i gynorthwyo’r henoed a’r rhai mewn gofal tymor hir, ac i helpu awdurdodau lleol i gomisiynu capasiti gofal nyrsio preswyl ychwanegol. Bûm mewn cysylltiad agos â Jane Hutt a chynrychiolwyr llywodraeth leol ar y mater hwn.

The consequential additions to the Assembly’s budget have also been used to invest further in education and training, and £600,000 has been allocated to allow the expansion of clinical education in Wales. I have also provided additional recurrent funding of over £1 million for sixth-form education in Wales. I am also pleased to announce that an additional £6 million will be available in 2002-03 to cover the cost of extending the benefits of the Assembly pay remit to Assembly sponsored public bodies. This will ensure that those bodies can implement their full pay remit proposals next year. Funding for future years will be dealt with in our normal budget planning process.

Defnyddiwyd yr ychwanegiadau canlyniadol i gyllideb y Cynulliad hefyd i fuddsoddi ymhellach mewn addysg a hyfforddiant, a dyrannwyd £600,000 i ganiatáu ehangu addysg glinigol yng Nghymru. Yr wyf hefyd wedi darparu cyllid rheolaidd ychwanegol o dros £1 filiwn i addysg dosbarth chwech yng Nghymru. Yr wyf hefyd yn falch o gyhoeddi y bydd £6 miliwn ychwanegol ar gael yn 2002-03 i dalu am gost ymestyn manteision cylch gwaith tâl y Cynulliad i gyrff cyhoeddus a noddir gan y Cynulliad. Bydd hyn yn sicrhau y gall y cyrff hynny roi eu holl gynigion cylch gwaith tâl ar waith y flwyddyn nesaf. Ymdrinnir â’r cyllid ar gyfer blynyddoedd i ddod yn ein proses cynllunio cyllideb arferol.

As I said earlier, the changes included in the budget are, essentially, technical. They include transfers from Whitehall departments and transfers between the main expenditure groups to ensure that Committee responsibilities are properly reflected. One such transfer is the sum of £2 million in additional funding expected from the Home Office. Although this sum is shown in the budget table published last week, the Home Office has yet to account for the transfer. The reserve is, therefore, overstated by £2 million, and I will ensure that the funds can be drawn down in-year as soon as the Home Office makes the necessary transfer. The tables do not include the allocations from uncommitted carry forward. I will provide that information in my statement on the use of carry forward later this year.

Fel y dywedais yn gynharach, mae’r newidiadau a geir yn y gyllideb yn rhai technegol, yn y bôn. Maent yn cynnwys trosglwyddiadau o adrannau Whitehall a throsglwyddiadau rhwng y prif grwpiau gwariant i sicrhau adlewyrchiad priodol o gyfrifoldebau’r Pwyllgorau. Un trosglwyddiad o’r fath yw’r swm o £2 filiwn o gyllid ychwanegol a ddisgwylir oddi wrth y Swyddfa Gartref. Er y dangosir y swm hwn yn y tabl cyllideb a gyhoeddwyd yr wythnos diwethaf, nid yw’r Swyddfa Gartref wedi rhoi cyfrif am y trosglwyddiad hwn eto. Felly mae’r gronfa wrth gefn wedi’i gorddatgan o £2 filiwn, a byddaf yn sicrhau y gellir defnyddio’r cyllid o fewn y flwyddyn cyn gynted ag y bydd y Swyddfa Gartref yn gwneud y trosglwyddiad angenrheidiol. Nid yw’r tablau’n cynnwys y dyraniadau o’r swm a gariwyd ymlaen sydd heb ei neilltuo. Byddaf yn darparu’r wybodaeth honno yn fy natganiad ar y defnydd o’r swm a gariwyd ymlaen yn ddiweddarach eleni.

My concerns about the underspend level are well known. In my motion of 12 March, I reaffirmed my determination to reduce the level of Assembly underspending. I remind Members that my medium-term goal is to reduce the underspend on the Assembly’s DEL to 1 per cent of DEL provision. I am confident of progress towards achieving this goal this financial year, thus making a significant contribution to improving public services delivery throughout Wales.

Mae fy mhryderon am faint y tanwario’n dra hysbys. Yn fy nghynnig ar 12 Mawrth, ailddatganais fy mhenderfyniad i leihau maint tanwario’r Cynulliad. Yr wyf yn atgoffa’r Aelodau mai fy nod tymor canolig yw gostwng y tanwario ar derfyn gwariant adrannol y Cynulliad i 1 y cant o’r ddarpariaeth terfyn gwariant adrannol. Yr wyf yn ffyddiog y bydd cynnydd tuag at gyflawni’r nod hon yn y flwyddyn ariannol hon, gan gyfrannu’n sylweddol at wella’r dull o ddarparu gwasanaethau cyhoeddus ledled Cymru.

I am sure that you are all aware that 2002 is a spending review year. The spending review involves the UK Government considering its three-year expenditure plans for 2003-04. As you would expect, the Welsh Assembly Government has been in close contact with the Treasury and Whitehall departments on the spending review. We aim to ensure that the Secretary of State for Wales is best placed to ensure that the spending review takes account of Welsh needs. The Assembly’s final settlement of the spending review period will be announced in July. We must then make our decisions on Welsh priorities accordingly. I commend this motion to you.

Yr wyf yn siŵr eich bod oll yn ymwybodol mai blwyddyn yr adolygiad o wariant yw 2002. Mae’r adolygiad o wariant yn golygu bod Llywodraeth y DU yn ystyried ei chynlluniau gwariant tair blynedd am 2003-04. Fel y disgwyliech, bu Llywodraeth Cynulliad Cymru mewn cysylltiad agos â’r Trysorlys ac adrannau Whitehall ar yr adolygiad o wariant. Bwriadwn sicrhau y bydd Ysgrifennydd Gwladol Cymru yn y sefyllfa orau i sicrhau bod yr adolygiad o wariant yn ystyried anghenion Cymru. Cyhoeddir setliad terfynol y Cynulliad o gyfnod yr adolygiad o wariant yng Ngorffennaf. Bryd hynny, rhaid inni benderfynu’n unol â hynny ar y blaenoriaethau yng Nghymru. Cymeradwyaf y cynnig hwn i chi.

Janet Ryder spoken in English p. 66

Janet Ryder siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 66

I am not sure if he counts as one of Edwina Hart’s colleagues, but Tony Blair recently said that public services need investment. However, money alone is not enough. We must also see clearly where the money is going and see the services redesigned around the interests of users. Having enough money in the first place is an absolute must. Any discussion surrounding the National Assembly’s budget must first note that public expenditure in Wales is still based on a flawed system that fails to take our nation’s needs properly into account. Additional resources are, therefore, always welcome. It is clear that the health budget has gained most from the additional funds before us today. Of the £49 million from the Chancellor’s pre-budget statement, £38 million goes to health authorities and NHS trusts. The Minister for Health and Social Services gave a commitment that the NHS reform in Wales was cost-neutral. Can the Minister for Finance, Local Government and Communities confirm that the additional money being provided for health through this supplementary budget will benefit front-line services, and that none of the additional resources are a consequence of the Government of Wales’s decision to restructure the health service in Wales? Will any of this additional funding be used to pay off health authorities’ debts? It would also be helpful if the Minister could tell us how the £38 million—

Nid wyf yn sicr a yw’n cyfrif fel un o gydweithwyr Edwina Hart, ond fe ddywedodd Tony Blair yn ddiweddar bod angen buddsoddi mewn gwasanaethau cyhoeddus. Fodd bynnag, nid yw arian yn ddigon ar ei ben ei hun. Rhaid inni weld yn glir hefyd i ble yr aiff yr arian a gweld y gwasanaethau wedi’u hailgynllunio o gwmpas anghenion y defnyddwyr. Mae’n hollol angenrheidiol cael digon o arian i ddechrau. Rhaid i unrhyw drafodaeth ynghylch cyllideb y Cynulliad Cenedlaethol nodi’n gyntaf bod gwariant cyhoeddus yng Nghymru’n seiliedig o hyd ar system ddiffygiol sy’n methu â chymryd anghenion ein cenedl i ystyriaeth yn briodol. Gan hynny, mae adnoddau ychwanegol i’w croesawu bob amser. Mae’n amlwg mai’r gyllideb iechyd a enillodd fwyaf oddi wrth y cyllid ychwanegol sydd o’n blaen heddiw. O’r £49 miliwn o ddatganiad rhag-gyllidebol y Canghellor, aiff £38 miliwn at yr awdurdodau iechyd a’r ymddiriedolaethau GIG. Cafwyd ymrwymiad gan y Gweinidog dros Iechyd a Gwasanaethau Cymdeithasol fod diwygio’r GIG yng Nghymru’n niwtral o ran cost. A all y Gweinidog dros Gyllid, Llywodraeth Leol a Chymunedau gadarnhau y bydd yr arian ychwanegol a ddarperir ar gyfer iechyd drwy’r gyllideb atodol hon o fudd i’r gwasanaethau rheng flaen, ac nad oes dim o’r adnoddau ychwanegol yn ganlyniad i benderfyniad Llywodraeth Cymru i ailstrwythuro’r gwasanaeth iechyd yng Nghymru? A ddefnyddir unrhyw ran o’r cyllid ychwanegol hwn i dalu dyledion yr awdurdodau iechyd? Byddai o gymorth hefyd pe gallai’r Gweinidog ddweud wrthym sut y mae’r £38 miliwn—

Brian Gibbons a gododd—

Brian Gibbons rose—

Dafydd Elis-Thomas The Presiding Officer spoken in English p. 67

Dafydd Elis-Thomas Y Llywydd siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 67

Order. I do not think that Janet Ryder is giving way, or perhaps she has not seen you, Brian, because of the constraints of the Chamber.

Trefn. Nid wyf yn credu bod Janet Ryder yn ildio, neu efallai nad yw wedi’ch gweld, Brian, oherwydd cyfyngiadau’r Siambr.

Brian Gibbons spoken in English p. 67

Brian Gibbons siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 67

What is Janet’s best estimate of the increase in the Welsh block since the Labour Government was elected in 1997?

Beth yw amcangyfrif gorau Janet o’r cynnydd yng ngrant bloc Cymru ers ethol y Llywodraeth Lafur yn 1997?

Janet Ryder spoken in English p. 67

Janet Ryder siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 67

Not enough.

Dim digon.

It would also be helpful if the Minister would tell us how the £38 million for the annually managed expenditure of health authorities and trusts will be divided. How much will go towards neo-natal hearing screening, and how much towards improving the ambulance service? It has been estimated that around £8.7 million is needed to upgrade the service to enable ambulances to respond to 75 per cent of calls within eight minutes. Will the Minister give us further details on the separate allocations within this budget expenditure line?

Byddai hefyd o gymorth pe dywedai’r Gweinidog wrthym sut y caiff y £38 miliwn ar gyfer gwariant yr awdurdodau iechyd a’r ymddiriedolaethau a reolir yn flynyddol ei rannu. Pa faint a aiff at sgrinio clyw newydd-enedigol, a pha faint a aiff at wella’r gwasanaeth ambiwlans? Amcangyfrifwyd bod angen tua £8.7 miliwn i wella’r gwasanaeth fel y gall ambiwlansau ymateb i 75 y cant o’r galwadau o fewn wyth munud. A wnaiff y Gweinidog roi manylion pellach ar y gwahanol ddyraniadau o fewn y llinell gwariant cyllideb hon?

A further £5 million resulting from the Chancellor’s pre-budget statement has been allocated to the elderly and long-term care BEL, partly to help local authorities to commission additional capacity, as has been said. I am sure that the Minister agrees that there is a need to ensure joint service working between local authority health departments in order to increase capacity. Will she confirm that this money was announced before Christmas? If so, councils have already used that allocation to raise the level of fees to private homes. In many areas, those homes are telling the authorities that it is not enough, and they are still threatening closure. We have been told that a task group has been established to consider this, but it is an urgent concern that threatens people’s homes and causes huge burdens on local authority budgets. Are there any plans to revisit this area of the budget, if need be?

Dyrannwyd £5 miliwn pellach sy’n ganlyniad i ddatganiad rhag-gyllidebol y Canghellor i linell gwariant cyllideb yr henoed a gofal tymor hir, yn rhannol i helpu’r awdurdodau lleol i gomisiynu capasiti ychwanegol, fel y dywedwyd. Yr wyf yn sicr y cytuna’r Gweinidog fod angen sicrhau bod adrannau iechyd awdurdodau lleol yn cydweithio ar wasanaethau er mwyn cynyddu capasiti. A wnaiff gadarnhau bod yr arian hwn wedi’i gyhoeddi cyn y Nadolig? Os felly, mae’r cynghorau eisoes wedi defnyddio’r dyraniad hwnnw i godi lefel y ffioedd i gartrefi preifat. Mewn sawl ardal, mae’r cartrefi hynny’n dweud wrth yr awdurdodau nad yw’n ddigon, ac maent yn dal i fygwth cau. Dywedwyd wrthym fod tasglu wedi’i sefydlu i ystyried hyn, ond mae’n destun pryder brys sy’n bygwth cartrefi pobl ac yn gosod beichiau anferth ar gyllidebau’r awdurdodau lleol. A oes unrhyw fwriad i ailystyried y rhan hon o’r gyllideb, os bydd angen?

My final point on health is on the £25 million that has been channelled into the AME of health authorities and trusts to cover elements such as Welsh risk pool premiums, which includes clinical negligence payments. This budget line is set to rise over coming years, and it is causing alarm among health authorities. Yet, last week, the Government voted against an amendment expressing concern at the rising costs to the public purse of clinical negligence claims.

Mae fy mhwynt olaf ar iechyd yn ymwneud â’r £25 miliwn sydd wedi’i sianelu i wariant yr awdurdodau iechyd a’r ymddiriedolaethau a reolir yn flynyddol i dalu am elfennau fel premiymau cronfa risg Cymru, sy’n cynnwys taliadau esgeulustod clinigol. Disgwylir i’r llinell gyllideb hon godi dros y blynyddoedd i ddod, ac mae’n peri braw ymysg yr awdurdodau iechyd. Eto, yr wythnos diwethaf, fe bleidleisiodd y Llywodraeth yn erbyn gwelliant a fynegai bryder ynghylch cost gynyddol hawliadau esgeulustod clinigol i’r pwrs cyhoeddus.

We have received news of additional investment in another major public service in recent weeks, namely in higher education. Jane Davidson told us that £41 million would be made available to cover the costs of the Assembly learning grant—over double the £20 million that had been set aside for hardship and access funds—and that a further £51 million will be available from April 2003.

Cawsom newyddion am fuddsoddi ychwanegol mewn gwasanaeth cyhoeddus pwysig arall yn yr wythnosau diwethaf hyn, sef mewn addysg uwch. Dywedodd Jane Davidson wrthym y byddai £41 miliwn yn cael ei ddarparu i dalu am gostau grant dysgu’r Cynulliad—dros ddwywaith yr £20 miliwn a neilltuwyd ar gyfer cronfeydd caledi a mynediad—ac y bydd £51 miliwn pellach ar gael o Ebrill 2003.

We were told that there was provision for the sums in the Government’s budget, but there does not seem to be a budget line to confirm this. Student access funds will be going strong until 2005, according to this budget, while I seem to remember that Jane Davidson signalled an end to them a few weeks ago. Perhaps the two Ministers have not discussed this.

Dywedwyd wrthym fod darpariaeth ar gyfer y symiau yng nghyllideb y Llywodraeth, ond nid yw’n ymddangos bod llinell gyllideb i gadarnhau hynny. Bydd cronfeydd mynediad myfyrwyr yn dal ffynnu tan 2005, yn ôl y gyllideb hon, er fy mod fel petawn yn cofio bod Jane Davidson wedi dweud ychydig wythnosau’n ôl y byddent yn dod i ben. Efallai nad yw’r ddau Weinidog wedi trafod hyn.

In her higher education strategy, the Minister also announced an additional £3 million for collaboration and £5 million for reconfiguration in the coming year. These amounts also seem to be absent from the budget. I would be grateful if Edwina could clarify these points, since the education budget seems only to have increased by £1.5 million as a result of transfers and additions. That is contrary to our expectations following recent announcements.

Yn ei strategaeth addysg uwch, cyhoeddodd y Gweinidog hefyd £3 miliwn ychwanegol ar gyfer cydweithio a £5 miliwn ar gyfer ailgyflunio yn y flwyddyn sydd i ddod. Ymddengys bod y symiau hyn yn absennol o’r gyllideb hefyd. Byddwn yn ddiolchgar pe gallai Edwina egluro’r pwyntiau hyn, gan ei bod yn ymddangos mai cynnydd o ddim ond £1.5 miliwn a gafwyd yn y gyllideb addysg o ganlyniad i’r trosglwyddiadau a’r ychwanegiadau. Mae hynny’n groes i’n disgwyliadau ar ôl y cyhoeddiadau diweddar.

Will Edwina explain how the changes to the budget will allay the concerns of the teachers’ unions in Wales, which are threatening industrial action as a result of the pressures on school budgets? The Minister for Education and Lifelong Learning suggested in yesterday’s Committee meeting that these issues have arisen because teachers’ unions are articulate lobbyists. That is slightly derogatory, as people are worried about the loss of jobs, largely due to the fact that retrospective payments are placing strains on budgets at local education authority level and at individual school level.

A wnaiff Edwina egluro sut y bydd y newidiadau i’r gyllideb yn lleddfu pryderon undebau’r athrawon yng Nghymru, sy’n bygwth gweithredu diwydiannol o ganlyniad i’r pwysau ar gyllidebau ysgol? Awgrymodd y Gweinidog dros Addysg a Dysgu Gydol Oes yng nghyfarfod y Pwyllgor ddoe fod y materion hyn wedi codi am fod undebau’r athrawon yn lobïwyr croyw. Mae hynny braidd yn ddirmygus, gan fod pobl yn poeni am golli swyddi, yn bennaf oherwydd bod y taliadau adolygol yn rhoi pwysau ar gyllidebau yn yr awdurdodau addysg lleol a’r ysgolion unigol.

Finally, Education and Learning Wales will receive an additional £2 million. How is the Minister monitoring whether ELWa is making more cost-effective use of public funds than the previous training and education councils structure? Does the cost of the chair’s chauffeur-driven car come under the running costs BEL?

Yn olaf, bydd Dysgu ac Addysgu Cymru’n derbyn £2 filiwn ychwanegol. Sut y mae’r Gweinidog yn arolygu a yw ELWa yn defnyddio arian cyhoeddus yn fwy cost-effeithiol nag a wnaeth y strwythur cynghorau hyfforddi a menter blaenorol? A yw cost car a gyrrwr y cadeirydd yn dod o dan linell gwariant cyllideb y costau rhedeg?

The Assembly has a responsibility to ensure that prosperity is spread across Wales. One of your colleagues, Huw Lewis, said, in an astonishing attack on the First Minister, that:

Mae cyfrifoldeb gan y Cynulliad i sicrhau y caiff ffyniant ei ledaenu ledled Cymru. Dywedodd un o’ch cyd-Aelodau, Huw Lewis, mewn ymosodiad syfrdanol ar Brif Weinidog Cymru:

‘unless poverty and social justice are put before everything else, we will fail. Every penny we spend must be earmarked to tackle poverty.’

‘os na roddir tlodi a chyfiawnder cymdeithasol o flaen pob dim arall, byddwn yn methu. Rhaid clustnodi pob ceiniog a wariwn i fynd i’r afael â thlodi.’

I could not have put it better myself.

Ni allwn fod wedi’i roi’n well fy hun.

Huw Lewis a gododd—

Huw Lewis rose—

Janet Ryder spoken in English p. 69

Janet Ryder siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 69

I am sorry, Huw. I have run out of time, Llywydd, as I am sure you will remind me.

Mae’n ddrwg gennyf, Huw. Mae fy amser ar ben, Lywydd, fel yr wyf yn siŵr y byddwch yn fy atgoffa.

I would ask the Minister—

Hoffwn ofyn i’r Gweinidog—

Dafydd Elis-Thomas The Presiding Officer spoken in English p. 70

Dafydd Elis-Thomas Y Llywydd siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 70

Order. You have run out of time; you said so yourself.

Trefn. Mae’ch amser ar ben; dywedasoch felly’ch hun.

Peter Black spoken in English p. 70

Peter Black siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 70

I declare an interest as a member of Swansea City and County Council. I also welcome the extra £49 million for the health service as a result of this supplementary budget. This continues the Government’s investment in this vital service, and will make resources available to target the key pressure points of waiting times and waiting lists.

Datganaf fuddiant fel aelod o Gyngor Dinas a Sir Abertawe. Yr wyf finnau’n croesawu’r £49 miliwn ychwanegol i’r gwasanaeth iechyd o ganlyniad i’r gyllideb atodol hon. Mae hyn yn parhau buddsoddiad y Llywodraeth yn y gwasanaeth hanfodol hwn, a bydd yn darparu adnoddau i dargedu’r gwasgbwyntiau allweddol sef amseroedd aros a rhestrau aros.

It is important that we recognise that the record spending on the health service in Wales can make a difference, if it is effectively managed and used to increase the capacity of the NHS.

Mae’n bwysig inni gydnabod y gall y gwariant uchaf erioed ar y gwasanaeth iechyd yng Nghymru wneud gwahaniaeth, os caiff ei reoli’n effeithiol a’i ddefnyddio i gynyddu gallu’r GIG.

The fact that some of this money has been allocated to the elderly and long-term care demonstrates that we are committed to tackling bedblocking and the current crisis in residential care homes. I know that the Minister for Health and Social Services is taking this issue seriously, and she has already devoted substantial resources to it. That is welcome. I hope that we can maintain a dialogue with the care home sector and local councils to achieve a satisfactory solution to the problem.

Mae’r ffaith bod rhywfaint o’r arian hwn wedi’i ddyrannu i’r henoed a gofal tymor hir yn dangos ein bod wedi ymrwymo i fynd i’r afael â’r blocio ar welyau a’r argyfwng presennol mewn cartrefi gofal preswyl. Gwn fod y Gweinidog dros Iechyd a Gwasanaethau Cymdeithasol yn cymryd y mater hwn o ddifrif, ac mae eisoes wedi neilltuo adnoddau sylweddol ar ei gyfer. Mae hynny i’w groesawu. Gobeithiaf y gallwn gynnal deialog â’r sector cartrefi gofal a’r cynghorau lleol er mwyn sicrhau ateb boddhaol i’r broblem.

I also welcome the fact that some of these resources will be used to introduce universal neo-natal hearing screening during the next financial year. I have worked on this issue with Karen Sinclair and the all-party group on deaf issues. It will make a huge difference to many families in Wales.

Yr wyf hefyd yn croesawu’r ffaith y defnyddir rhai o’r adnoddau hyn i gyflwyno sgrinio clyw newydd-enedigol cyffredinol yn ystod y flwyddyn ariannol nesaf. Yr wyf wedi gweithio ar y mater hwn gyda Karen Sinclair a’r grŵp pob plaid ar faterion pobl fyddar. Bydd yn gwneud gwahaniaeth aruthrol i lawer o deuluoedd yng Nghymru.

Much of the rest of this supplementary budget, as the Minister said, is technical. However, it reflects the partnership’s Government’s priorities for investing in health and education and for improving public service in Wales through public investment.

Mae llawer o weddill y gyllideb atodol hon, fel y dywedodd y Gweinidog, yn dechnegol. Fodd bynnag, mae’n adlewyrchu’r flaenoriaeth y mae’r Llywodraeth bartneriaeth yn ei rhoi i fuddsoddi mewn iechyd ac addysg ac i wella gwasanaethau cyhoeddus yng Nghymru drwy fuddsoddi cyhoeddus.

Alun Cairns spoken in English p. 71

Alun Cairns siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 71

There is little in this budget that is truly contentious and many of the transfers are procedural. It does, however, raise questions on the implementation of some policy areas and the running of Assembly Government departments. I would hate to think that some policy areas, such as health service restructuring, are being camouflaged. I am sure that we will move on to that later.

Ychydig a geir yn y gyllideb hon sy’n wirioneddol ddadleuol ac mae llawer o’r trosglwyddiadau’n rhai trefniadol. Er hynny, mae’n codi cwestiynau ynghylch gweithredu rhai meysydd polisi a rhedeg adrannau Llywodraeth y Cynulliad. Byddai’n gas gennyf feddwl bod rhai meysydd polisi, fel ailstrwythuro’r gwasanaeth iechyd, yn cael eu cuddio. Yr wyf yn sicr yr awn ymlaen at hynny’n ddiweddarach.

The most notable transfers are those that relate to health expenditure. It is well documented that the Welsh Conservatives have consistently called for extra health spend, therefore this is welcome. The funds that will be used to introduce neo-natal hearing screening are also welcome, and the Government should be congratulated on that. I am sure that all parties would support this policy. Funding to improve emergency services’ response times is also welcome. The Minister’s briefing note says that the £38 million to fund neo-natal hearing screening and to improve response times also includes departmental pressures. This is a vague heading, and £38 million is a lot of money. Therefore I hope that the Minister will provide a little more detail on that, because it cannot be provided in the BEL spreadsheet.

Y trosglwyddiadau mwyaf trawiadol yw’r rhai sy’n ymwneud â gwariant iechyd. Mae’n dra hysbys bod Ceidwadwyr Cymru wedi galw’n gyson am wario ychwanegol ar iechyd, felly mae hyn i’w groesawu. Mae’r arian a ddefnyddir i gyflwyno sgrinio clyw newydd-enedigol i’w groesawu hefyd, a dylid llongyfarch y Llywodraeth ar hynny. Yr wyf yn sicr y byddai’r holl bleidiau’n cefnogi’r polisi hwn. Mae’r arian i wella amseroedd ymateb y gwasanaethau brys i’w groesawu hefyd. Dywed nodyn briffio’r Gweinidog fod y £38 miliwn i ariannu sgrinio clyw newydd-enedigol ac i wella’r amseroedd ymateb hefyd yn cynnwys pwysau adrannol. Pennawd annelwig yw hwn, ac mae £38 miliwn yn swm mawr. Felly yr wyf yn gobeithio y bydd y Gweinidog yn rhoi ychydig rhagor o fanylion ar hynny, oherwydd ni ellir eu darparu ar y daenlen llinellau gwariant cyllideb.

The £5 million for elderly and long-term care is not enough to answer the crisis in the residential and nursing home sector. Even if local authorities choose to pass on the bulk of these funds to the homes themselves through increased fees, it still would not stem the large-scale closures being experienced at present. Although the budget is broken down in some ways, such as the £5 million for elderly and long-term care, this principle will not necessarily be followed through by local authorities. Therefore, will the Minister ring-fence such funding to prevent the appearance of a funding fog? Otherwise, all that the Ministers responsible for health and finance are doing is moving funds in an administrative way from one column to another in the spreadsheets that have been presented. It will not mean anything to elderly care home residents, just as it has not meant anything to the 102-year-old lady who visited 10 Downing Street this week because she is under threat of becoming homeless yet again. The significant increase in health spending over recent years is welcome, but there is little point in increasing the spending by some 20 per cent if the number of operations carried out is only increasing by about 2 per cent. Efficiency in that area needs to be tackled.

Nid yw’r £5 miliwn i ofal yr henoed a gofal tymor hir yn ddigon i ateb yr argyfwng yn y sector cartrefi preswyl a nyrsio. Hyd yn oed os bydd yr awdurdodau lleol yn dewis trosglwyddo’r rhan helaethaf o’r adnoddau hyn i’r cartrefi eu hunain drwy ffioedd uwch, ni fyddai’n atal y cau ar raddfa fawr a brofir ar hyn o bryd. Er bod y gyllideb wedi’i rhannu o ran rhai o’i hagweddau, fel y £5 miliwn i ofal yr henoed a gofal tymor hir, ni fydd yr awdurdodau lleol yn dilyn yr egwyddor hon o reidrwydd. Felly, a wnaiff y Gweinidog glustnodi arian o’r fath i atal niwl ariannu? Fel arall, y cwbl a wnaiff y Gweinidogion sy’n gyfrifol am iechyd a chyllid yw symud arian mewn modd gweinyddol o un golofn i’r llall yn y taenlenni a gyflwynwyd. Ni fydd yn golygu dim i breswylwyr cartrefi gofal yr henoed, yn union fel na olygodd ddim i’r wraig 102 flwydd oed a ymwelodd â 10 Downing Street yr wythnos yma am ei bod o dan fygythiad o ddod yn ddigartref eto byth. Mae’r cynnydd sylweddol yn y gwario ar iechyd dros y blynyddoedd diwethaf hyn i’w groesawu, ond nid oes fawr o ddiben mewn cynyddu gwariant o ryw 20 y cant os nad yw nifer y llawdriniaethau a wneir ond yn cynyddu o ryw 2 y cant. Mae angen mynd i’r afael ag effeithlondeb yn y maes hwnnw.

I also note the increase of £6 million to quangos, even though we are still waiting for the bonfire of the quangos. There might be a good reason for this increase but, if the pledge made during the Assembly referendum to abolish quangos had been kept, this £6 million would not need to be transferred.

Yr wyf hefyd yn nodi’r codiad o £6 miliwn i’r cwangos, er ein bod yn dal i ddisgwyl y goelcerth cwangos. Efallai fod rheswm da dros y cynnydd hwn ond, pe byddai’r addewid a wnaethpwyd yn ystod refferendwm y Cynulliad i ddiddymu cwangos wedi’i gadw, ni fyddai angen trosglwyddo’r £6 miliwn hwn.

It is also worth noting that the spreadsheets include indicative plans for 2003-04 and, more importantly, for 2004-05. The comprehensive spending review was discussed by the Economic Development Committee yesterday and, in recognition to Phil Williams, he produced figures that demonstrated that funding over and above Barnett is needed at the next CSR. We failed to gain match funding at the last CSR, and all we received was a proportion of the European funding over and above Barnett, which was rightly ours in the first place.

Mae hefyd yn werth nodi bod y taenlenni’n cynnwys cynlluniau dynodol am 2003-04 ac, yn bwysicach, am 2004-05. Trafodwyd yr adolygiad cynhwysfawr o wariant gan y Pwyllgor Datblygu Economaidd ddoe ac, mewn cydnabyddiaeth i Phil Williams, fe ddangosodd ffigurau a brofodd fod angen arian ar ben swm Barnett yn yr adolygiad cynhwysfawr o wariant nesaf. Methasom â sicrhau arian cyfatebol yn yr adolygiad cynhwysfawr o wariant diwethaf, a’r cwbl a gawsom oedd cyfran o’r arian Ewropeaidd ar ben swm Barnett, a oedd yn eiddo cyfreithlon i ni yn y lle cyntaf.

Brian Gibbons spoken in English p. 72

Brian Gibbons siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 72

What regions in England received match funding along the lines that you are suggesting?

Pa ranbarthau yn Lloegr a gafodd arian cyfatebol mewn modd tebyg i’r hyn yr ydych chi’n ei awgrymu?

Alun Cairns spoken in English p. 72

Alun Cairns siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 72

All I am saying—[Laughter.]

Y cwbl yr wyf yn ei ddweud—[Chwerthin.]

Let us clarify this point. I seem to recall some famous quotes from the First Secretary at the time that Wales would not be let down. It is clear that if we have European funding, additional match funding is needed. Otherwise, money to be used as match funding will be diverted, as it has been, from our core budget. This time, I fail to see how the Treasury can ignore our calls for European and match funding. Therefore, I will be interested to hear the Minister’s response to the £120 million shortfall. Does she accept the need for additional funding to prevent de-commitment of European funds? The figures presented by Phil Williams only relate to the de-commitment. We do not want to de-commit those funds. Therefore, perhaps Brian Gibbons will apologise for asking that question because if we end up in that position, due to insufficient match funding, we will have to de-commit funds.

Gadewch inni roi gwedd eglurach ar y pwynt hwn. Mae fel petawn yn cofio rhai dywediadau enwog gan y Prif Ysgrifennydd ar y pryd na châi Cymru ei siomi. Mae’n amlwg, os oes gennym arian Ewropeaidd, fod angen arian cyfatebol ychwanegol. Fel arall, caiff arian sydd i’w ddefnyddio fel arian cyfatebol ei ddargyfeirio, fel y digwyddodd, o’n cyllideb graidd. Y tro hwn, methaf â gweld sut y gall y Trysorlys anwybyddu’n galwadau am arian Ewropeaidd ac arian cyfatebol. Felly, bydd o ddiddordeb imi glywed ymateb y Gweinidog i’r £120 miliwn o ddiffyg. A yw’n derbyn bod angen arian ychwanegol fel nad yw’r arian Ewropeaidd yn cael ei dynnu yn ôl? Mae’r ffigurau a gyflwynwyd gan Phil Williams ond yn ymwneud â hynny. Nid ydym am i’r arian gael ei dynnu yn ôl. Felly, efallai y gwnaiff Brian Gibbons ymddiheuro am ofyn y cwestiwn hwnnw oherwydd os byddwn yn y sefyllfa honno yn y diwedd, am fod yr arian cyfatebol yn annigonol, bydd yn rhaid inni dynnu arian yn ôl.

Brian Gibbons spoken in English p. 73

Brian Gibbons siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 73

When Alun was travelling around the English regions discussing Objective 1 spending plans, did they envy our situation and would they love for it to be replicated in their regions?

Pan oedd Alun yn teithio o gwmpas rhanbarthau Lloegr yn trafod cynlluniau gwario Amcan 1, a oedd ein sefyllfa’n ennyn cenfigen ynddynt ac a hoffent weld ei dyblygu yn eu rhanbarthau hwy?

Alun Cairns spoken in English p. 73

Alun Cairns siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 73

Absolutely not. They do not envy the bureaucratic nightmare of the structures that we have introduced here and they do not envy excluding and pushing out the private sector from Objective 1.

Dim o gwbl. Nid ydynt yn cenfigennu wrth hunllef fiwrocrataidd y strwythurau a gyflwynasom yma nac wrth y ffaith bod y sector preifat yn cael ei gau allan a’i wthio allan o Amcan 1.

Peter Law spoken in English p. 73

Peter Law siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 73

You mentioned the fact that there are many quangos, which your Government introduced, but do you agree that members of those quangos are doing their jobs legitimately? They believe in what they are doing, which compares starkly with the eight of you, who are in the Assembly on the back of a system—which, I must admit, is crazy—called proportional representation. You never believed in this institution and voted against it. You said that you would never support it, and yet, you are prepared to take out of it all the assets that you can. That is the corruption of the Tory Party.

Soniasoch fod llawer o gwangos, a gyflwynwyd gan eich Llywodraeth chi, ond a gytunwch fod aelodau’r cwangos hynny’n gwneud eu gwaith yn briodol? Credant yn yr hyn y maent yn ei wneud, mewn gwrthgyferbyniad llwyr â’r wyth ohonoch chi, sydd wedi dod i’r Cynulliad yn sgîl system—sydd, y mae’n rhaid imi gyfaddef, yn hurt—o’r enw cynrychiolaeth gyfrannol. Ni chredasoch erioed yn y sefydliad hwn a gwnaethoch bleidleisio yn ei erbyn. Dywedasoch na fyddech byth yn ei gefnogi, ac eto, yr ydych yn barod i gymryd pob ased ag y gallwch ohono. Dyna lygredd y Blaid Dorïaidd.

Dafydd Elis-Thomas The Presiding Officer spoken in English p. 73

Dafydd Elis-Thomas Y Llywydd siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 73

Order. I must ask Peter Law to reconsider the phrase that he used to describe the Welsh Conservative Group.

Trefn. Rhaid imi ofyn i Peter Law ailystyried yr ymadrodd a ddefnyddiodd i ddisgrifio Grŵp Ceidwadwyr Cymru.

Peter Law spoken in English p. 73

Peter Law siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 73

I think that it is an opinion, Llywydd. I could replace it with ‘the distortion of the Tory Party’, but that is the reality; they speak with a forked tongue and everyone knows it.

Credaf mai barn yw honno, Lywydd. Gallwn roi ‘llurguniad y Blaid Dorïaidd’ yn ei le, ond dyna’r gwirionedd; maent yn siarad yn ddichellgar ac mae pawb yn gwybod hynny.

Dafydd Elis-Thomas The Presiding Officer spoken in English p. 73

Dafydd Elis-Thomas Y Llywydd siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 73

I am grateful to you for withdrawing the earlier remark.

Yr wyf yn ddiolchgar i chi am dynnu’n ôl y sylw cynharach.

Alun Cairns spoken in English p. 74

Alun Cairns siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 74

I do not need to listen to lectures from ‘quango man’ himself, nor do I need to listen to lectures on my point about the bonfire of the quangos. Let us be honest, the people of Wales were fooled and hoodwinked when they voted in the referendum because they expected the Assembly to replace many of the responsibilities of the quangos. We are still waiting for that to happen. The First Minister reneged on that promise some time ago, by saying that he did not promise a bonfire of the quangos; that is certainly a dichotomy. I do not need to listen to any lectures from Peter Law given that this administration has set up 77 task and finish groups since May 1999. They meet behind closed doors and their members are appointed by the Cabinet, which does not subscribe to the Nolan principles in making those appointments.

Nid oes rhaid imi wrando ar bregethau gan y ‘dyn cwango’ ei hun, ac nid oes rhaid imi chwaith wrando ar bregethau ar fy mhwynt ynghylch coelcerth y cwangos. Gadewch inni fod yn onest, fe dwyllwyd ac fe gamarweiniwyd pobl Cymru wrth bleidleisio yn y refferendwm oherwydd yr oeddent yn disgwyl i’r Cynulliad ddisodli llawer o gyfrifoldebau’r cwangos. Yr ydym yn dal i ddisgwyl i hynny ddigwydd. Torrodd Prif Weinidog Cymru’r addewid honno beth amser yn ôl, drwy ddweud nad oedd wedi addo coelcerth o gwangos; mae hynny’n ddeuoliaeth yn sicr. Nid oes rhaid imi wrando ar unrhyw bregethau gan Peter Law o ystyried bod y weinyddiaeth hon wedi sefydlu 77 o grwpiau gorchwyl a gorffen ers Mai 1999. Maent yn cwrdd y tu ôl i ddrysau caeedig a phenodir eu haelodau gan y Cabinet, nad yw’n dilyn egwyddorion Nolan wrth wneud y penodiadau hynny.

Finally, on the underspend, what guarantees can the Minister give us that no money will be swishing around in the Assembly’s account while waiting lists increase and class sizes rise?

Yn olaf, ynghylch y tanwario, pa sicrwydd y gall y Gweinidog ei roi i ni na fydd arian yn troi o gwmpas yng nghyfrif y Cynulliad tra bo’r rhestrau aros a maint dosbarthiadau’n cynyddu?

Edwina Hart The Minister for Finance, Local Government and Communities spoken in English p. 74

Edwina Hart Y Gweinidog dros Gyllid, Llywodraeth Leol a Chymunedau siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 74

I compliment Alun Cairns on his understanding of my budget figures, as a fellow former bank employee. We understand the issues that arise from this budget.

Llongyfarchaf Alun Cairns ar ei ddealltwriaeth o’m ffigurau cyllideb, fel un a fu fel minnau’n gweithio mewn banc. Yr ydym ni’n deall y materion sy’n codi o’r gyllideb hon.

First, I am delighted to give you my commitment on the underspend. I am pleased to advise the Assembly that all our hard work during the last 12 months in trying to get budgets on-line indicates that this year’s underspend will be substantially less than last year’s. I am pleased that money has been allocated throughout the year at a measured pace because there is always a last-minute scramble with budgets towards the end of the last financial quarter. I hope that I will have good news to report to the Assembly after Easter when the final figures will be known. As I indicated to colleagues, I will break down the underspend figures in terms of Assembly departments when those figures are available. It might be necessary to provide more information in the package that I will announce, especially in relation to capital underspend.

Yn gyntaf, yr wyf yn falch iawn o roi ymrwymiad i chi ar y tanwario. Mae’n dda gennyf hysbysu’r Cynulliad bod yr holl waith caled a wnaethom yn ystod y 12 mis diwethaf wrth geisio rhoi’r cyllidebau ar waith yn dangos y bydd y tanwario eleni’n llai o lawer na’r llynedd. Yr wyf yn falch bod yr arian wedi’i ddyrannu drwy gydol y flwyddyn yn bwyllog oherwydd ceir sgrialu ar y funud olaf bob amser gyda’r cyllidebau tua diwedd y chwarter ariannol olaf. Gobeithiaf y bydd gennyf newyddion da i’w hadrodd i’r Cynulliad ar ôl y Pasg pan fydd y ffigurau terfynol yn hysbys. Fel y dywedais wrth fy nghyd-aelodau, byddaf yn dadansoddi’r ffigurau tanwariant o ran adrannau’r Cynulliad pan yw’r ffigurau hynny ar gael. Efallai y bydd angen darparu rhagor o wybodaeth yn y pecyn y byddaf yn ei gyhoeddi, yn enwedig mewn cysylltiad â thanwario cyfalaf.

On structural funds, I am aware that a paper on these issues was under discussion. As far as I am aware, there is no shortfall. I am pleased with the arrangements that we had in the last CSR in terms of the additional resources for the structural funds, and I naturally wish to ensure that the Secretary of State continues to make the necessary representations for the additional money in this CSR.

Ynghylch y cronfeydd strwythurol, yr wyf yn ymwybodol bod papur ar y materion hyn yn cael ei drafod. Hyd y gwn i, nid oes diffyg. Yr wyf yn fodlon ar y trefniadau a oedd gennym yn yr adolygiad cynhwysfawr o wariant diwethaf o ran yr adnoddau ychwanegol i’r cronfeydd strwythurol, ac, wrth gwrs, yr wyf yn dymuno sicrhau y bydd yr Ysgrifennydd Gwladol yn parhau i gyflwyno’r sylwadau angenrheidiol ar gyfer yr arian ychwanegol yn yr adolygiad cynhwysfawr o wariant hwn.

Geraint Davies a gododd—

Geraint Davies rose—

Dafydd Elis-Thomas The Presiding Officer spoken in English p. 75

Dafydd Elis-Thomas Y Llywydd siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 75

Order. The Minister is not giving way.

Trefn. Nid yw’r Gweinidog yn ildio.

Edwina Hart spoken in English p. 75

Edwina Hart siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 75

On the comments on long-term care for the elderly, an issue which concerns and affects us all, I note Alun’s points regarding the amount of money given to local government. In fact, my colleague, Jane Hutt, announced further resources of £7 million in this area last week. It is clear from our work with local authorities that there will be no need to ring-fence this money—they are aware of the priorities for its use, and we have had positive discussions with Welsh local government to on this issue. Local authorities in Wales are under tremendous pressure in this matter, and all of our constituents are affected. I assure you that we will look at this matter.

Ynghylch y sylwadau ar ofal hirdymor i’r henoed, mater sy’n bwysig i bawb ac yn effeithio ar bob un ohonom, nodaf bwyntiau Alun ynghylch y swm o arian a roddir i lywodraeth leol. Mewn gwirionedd, cyhoeddodd fy nghyd-Aelod, Jane Hutt, adnoddau pellach o £7 miliwn yn y maes hwn yr wythnos diwethaf. Mae’n amlwg o’n gwaith gyda’r awdurdodau lleol na fydd angen clustnodi’r arian hwn—maent yn ymwybodol o’r blaenoriaethau ar gyfer ei ddefnyddio, a chawsom drafodaethau cadarnhaol gyda llywodraeth leol Cymru ar y mater hwn. Mae’r awdurdodau lleol yng Nghymru o dan bwysau aruthrol yn hyn o beth, ac mae’n effeithio ar bob un o’n hetholwyr. Yr wyf yn eich sicrhau y byddwn yn edrych ar y mater hwn.

Alun Cairns spoken in English p. 75

Alun Cairns siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 75

If the resources are provided, as you say, and if the situation does not improve in the residential and nursing care sector, will you then consider ring-fencing the funding?

Os darperir yr adnoddau, fel y dywedwch, ac os nad yw’r sefyllfa’n gwella yn y sector gofal nyrsio a phreswyl, a wnewch ystyried clustnodi’r arian wedyn?

Edwina Hart spoken in English p. 75

Edwina Hart siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 75

I would obviously consider every option, because I must have the necessary improvements in that sector. I will continue to monitor the situation. I have always made clear that I am not in favour of hypothecation for local government in Wales, but if I felt that the money was not being spent properly then it is an option that I would be prepared to consider.

Byddwn yn ystyried pob dewis, wrth gwrs, oherwydd bod yn rhaid imi gael y gwelliannau sydd eu hangen yn y sector hwnnw. Byddaf yn parhau i arolygu’r sefyllfa. Yr wyf bob amser wedi rhoi ar ddeall nad wyf o blaid pridiannu ar gyfer llywodraeth leol yng Nghymru, ond os teimlwn nad oedd yr arian yn cael ei wario’n briodol, mae’n ddewis y byddwn yn fodlon ei ystyried.

On the health service agenda—

Ynghylch agenda’r gwasanaeth iechyd—

Geraint Davies a gododd—

Geraint Davies rose—

Dafydd Elis-Thomas The Presiding Officer spoken in English p. 76

Dafydd Elis-Thomas Y Llywydd siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 76

Order. Are you giving way to Geraint Davies, Minister?

Trefn. A ydych yn ildio i Geraint Davies, Weinidog?

Edwina Hart spoken in English p. 76

Edwina Hart siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 76

No, I am not.

Nac ydwyf.

The additional money for the health service has been broadly welcomed. Alun referred to the departmental pressures and the figure of £5 million; Jane Hutt will make an announcement on the use of that money in the near future. Once that information is available, you will see that it is not just to be used on general pressures, but for specific services in that area.

Mae’r arian ychwanegol i’r gwasanaeth iechyd wedi’i groesawu’n gyffredinol. Cyfeiriodd Alun at y pwysau adrannol a’r ffigur o £5 miliwn; bydd Jane Hutt yn gwneud cyhoeddiad ar ddefnyddio’r arian hwnnw yn y dyfodol agos. Pan yw’r wybodaeth honno ar gael, fe welwch nad ydyw i’w ddefnyddio ar y pwysau cyffredinol yn unig, ond ar wasanaethau penodol yn y maes hwnnw.

I welcome Peter Black’s comments, particularly in relation to the care of the elderly. As a Government, we are getting to grips with all the necessary pressures in this area of the budget. To Janet, I say that you are wrong on local management boards. The provision in the November budget was £21 million. If you look at the final pages of the table that I produced for Members, you will see that it is in the reserve. All the information is there. On the national health service, the purpose of this budget is to indicate to you where I have allocated funds. It is not to go into the detail of each Minister’s expenditure and undertakings. However, in terms of the health service reforms, the money that we are delivering now is for front-line services: it is for matters that will affect individuals, rather than health service reforms. Also, the risk pool is an issue that Jane Hutt takes seriously. We are undertaking further work in that area, and sufficient money is now available to deal with the issues of the risk pool during this and the next financial year. However, we are keeping the situation under review. I fear that we are becoming a litigious culture, which creates its own issues. I commend the budget to you.

Croesawaf sylwadau Peter Black, yn enwedig o ran gofal am yr henoed. Fel Llywodraeth, yr ydym yn mynd i’r afael â’r holl bwysau yn y rhan hon o’r gyllideb sy’n gofyn sylw. Dywedaf wrth Janet eich bod yn anghywir ar fyrddau rheoli lleol. Y ddarpariaeth yng nghyllideb mis Tachwedd oedd £21 miliwn. Os edrychwch ar dudalennau olaf y tabl a gynhyrchais ar gyfer yr Aelodau, fe welwch ei bod yn y gronfa wrth gefn. Mae’r holl wybodaeth yno. Ynghylch y gwasanaeth iechyd gwladol, pwrpas y gyllideb hon yw dangos i chi ym mhle’r wyf wedi dyrannu arian. Nid oes bwriad iddi fynd i fanylion gwariant ac ymgymeriadau pob Gweinidog. Fodd bynnag, o ran diwygiadau’r gwasanaeth iechyd, mae’r arian yr ydym yn ei roi’n awr ar gyfer gwasanaethau’r rheng flaen: mae ar gyfer materion a fydd yn effeithio ar unigolion, yn hytrach na diwygiadau’r gwasanaeth iechyd. Hefyd, mae’r gronfa risg yn fater y mae Jane Hutt yn ei gymryd o ddifrif. Yr ydym yn gwneud gwaith pellach yn y maes hwnnw, ac mae digon o arian ar gael yn awr i ddelio â materion y gronfa risg yn ystod y flwyddyn ariannol hon a’r un nesaf. Er hynny, yr ydym yn dal y sefyllfa dan sylw. Mae arnaf ofn ein bod yn dod yn ddiwylliant cyfreithgar, sy’n codi ei bynciau ei hun. Cymeradwyaf y gyllideb i chi.

Cynnig NDM1013 Edwina Hart t. 76

Motion NDM1013 Edwina Hart p. 76

DerbyniwydAdopted O blaidFor 40 YmatalAbstain 4 Yn erbynAgainst 0

Derbyniwyd y cynnig.

Motion carried.

Sut y pleidleisiodd yr AelodauHow Members voted
O blaidFor (40)
  • Lorraine Barrett
  • Mick Bates
  • Peter Black
  • Eleanor Burnham
  • Rosemary Butler
  • Christine Chapman
  • Cynog Dafis
  • Jane Davidson
  • Andrew Davies
  • Geraint Davies
  • Janet Davies
  • Jocelyn Davies
  • Sue Essex
  • Delyth Evans
  • Michael German
  • Brian Gibbons
  • Janice Gregory
  • John Griffiths
  • Alison Halford
  • Brian Hancock
  • Edwina Hart
  • Jane Hutt
  • Pauline Jarman
  • Ann Jones
  • Carwyn Jones
  • Gareth Jones
  • Peter Law
  • Huw Lewis
  • David Lloyd
  • Val Lloyd
  • Tom Middlehurst
  • Rhodri Morgan
  • Alun Pugh
  • Jenny Randerson
  • Janet Ryder
  • Karen Sinclair
  • Gwenda Thomas
  • Rhodri Glyn Thomas
  • Dafydd Wigley
  • Phil Williams
YmatalAbstain (4)
  • Alun Cairns
  • David Davies
  • David Melding
  • Jonathan Morgan

Datganiad gan y Llywydd

Statement by the Presiding Officer

Dafydd Elis-Thomas The Presiding Officer spoken in English p. 77

Dafydd Elis-Thomas Y Llywydd siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 77

Earlier in this morning’s proceedings, Alun Cairns drew attention to no named day motion 1011, which relates to Committee elections. I have taken further advice on this matter. If he turns to schedule 11 of the Government of Wales Act 1998, he will see that that specifically refers to the Partnership Council and the Local Government Partnership Council. If he refers further to sections 113 to 115 of our founding constitution in that Act, he will see that the only Partnership Council referred to is that at clause 113 on relations with local government. Our relations with voluntary organisations and our consultation with business, referred to in clauses 114 and 115, do not relate to the Partnership Council. Therefore, the motion is clear. However, I am grateful to Alun for raising that point.

Yn gynharach yn y trafodion y bore yma, tynnodd Alun Cairns sylw at y cynnig heb ddyddiad trafod 1011, sy’n ymwneud ag etholiadau i Bwyllgorau. Yr wyf wedi cymryd cyngor pellach ar y mater hwn. Os yw’n troi at atodlen 11 i Ddeddf Llywodraeth Cymru 1998, fe wêl ei bod yn cyfeirio’n benodol at y Cyngor Partneriaeth a’r Cyngor Partneriaeth Llywodraeth Leol. Os yw’n cyfeirio ymhellach at adrannau 113 i 115 yn ein cyfansoddiad sefydlu yn y Ddeddf honno, fe wêl mai’r unig Gyngor Partneriaeth y cyfeirir ato yw hwnnw yng nghymal 113 ar gysylltiadau â llywodraeth leol. Nid yw’n cysylltiadau â mudiadau gwirfoddol a’n hymgynghori â busnes, y cyfeirir atynt yng nghymalau 114 a 115, yn ymwneud â’r Cyngor Partneriaeth. Gan hynny, mae’r cynnig yn eglur. Fodd bynnag, yr wyf yn ddiolchgar i Alun am godi’r pwynt hwnnw.

Daeth y Dirprwy Lywydd i’r Gadair am 11.03 a.m.

The Deputy Presiding Officer took the Chair at 11.03 a.m.

Yr Ail Adroddiad Blynyddol ar Gynhwysiant Cymdeithasol yng Nghymru

The Second Annual Report on Social Inclusion in Wales

John Marek The Deputy Presiding Officer spoken in English p. 78

John Marek Y Dirprwy Lywydd siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 78

I have selected amendment 1 in the name of Jonathan Morgan and amendments 2 and 3 in the name of Jocelyn Davies.

Yr wyf wedi dethol gwelliant 1 yn enw Jonathan Morgan a gwelliannau 2 a 3 yn enw Jocelyn Davies.

Edwina Hart The Minister for Finance, Local Government and Communities spoken in English p. 78

Edwina Hart Y Gweinidog dros Gyllid, Llywodraeth Leol a Chymunedau siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 78

I propose that

Cynigiaf fod

Edwina Hart The Minister for Finance, Local Government and Communities (continued) spoken in English p. 78

Edwina Hart Y Gweinidog dros Gyllid, Llywodraeth Leol a Chymunedau (parhad) siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 78

The Assembly’s existence means that we can tackle our communities’ physical, social and economic deficiencies in a cohesive and integrated way, which is sensitive and responsive to the communities’ needs and wishes. The Local Government and Housing Committee has discussed the report and the amendments proposed by Committee members have been incorporated in the revised report before you today. As a result, Welsh language issues have a higher profile, and we highlight the role of general practitioners, outreach services and the measures that we have taken to promote preventative healthcare. We discussed what needs to be done to involve young people in decision-making and I have agreed to raise the issue of training additional early years’ workers with the Minister for Health and Social Services and the Minister for Education and Lifelong Learning. In addition, I have identified longer-term issues raised by the Committee. First, there is a need for a mechanism within the report to track changes in the homelessness legislation and to assess the effectiveness of the Homelessness Commission’s work. Secondly, we need to review national and local funding to the all-Wales groups, depending on their effectiveness in tackling social exclusion. Thirdly, we must review the targets of credit union membership.

Mae bodolaeth y Cynulliad yn golygu y gallwn fynd i’r afael â diffygion ffisegol, cymdeithasol ac economaidd ein cymunedau mewn modd cydlynol ac integredig, sy’n sensitif ac yn ymatebol i anghenion a dymuniadau’r cymunedau. Mae’r Pwyllgor Llywodraeth Leol a Thai wedi trafod yr adroddiad ac mae’r gwelliannau a gynigiwyd gan aelodau’r Pwyllgor wedi’u hymgorffori yn yr adroddiad diwygiedig sydd ger eich bron heddiw. O ganlyniad i hynny, mae lle amlycach i faterion y Gymraeg, ac yr ydym yn tynnu sylw at rôl yr ymarferwyr cyffredinol, gwasanaethau yn y gymuned a’r camau yr ydym wedi’u cymryd i hyrwyddo gofal iechyd ataliol. Trafodasom yr hyn y mae angen ei wneud i roi rhan i bobl ifanc mewn penderfynu a chytunais i godi mater hyfforddi rhagor o weithwyr y blynyddoedd cynnar gyda’r Gweinidog dros Iechyd a Gwasanaethau Cymdeithasol a’r Gweinidog dros Addysg a Dysgu Gydol Oes. Yn ogystal â hynny, yr wyf wedi nodi materion tymor hwy a godwyd gan y Pwyllgor. Yn gyntaf, mae angen mecanwaith o fewn yr adroddiad i gofnodi newidiadau yn y ddeddfwriaeth digartrefedd ac i asesu pa mor effeithiol yw gwaith y Comisiwn Digartrefedd. Yn ail, mae angen inni adolygu’r ariannu cenedlaethol a lleol i’r grwpiau Cymru gyfan, yn ôl eu heffeithiolrwydd wrth ddelio ag allgáu cymdeithasol. Yn drydydd, rhaid inni adolygu targedau aelodaeth yr undebau credyd.

Social exclusion has been tackled from many different directions but, I hope, with a single purpose. The Welsh Assembly Government’s Communities First programme is key to this work. I have made £65 million available to tackle poverty in the most deprived areas in Wales over the next two years. The sums of public money going into more than 100 of the most deprived communities in Wales should be significantly more than that, as many of the Assembly’s funding programmes and other public sector agencies have been targeting Communities First areas.

Aethpwyd i’r afael ag allgáu cymdeithasol o lawer o gyfeiriadau gwahanol ond, yr wyf yn gobeithio, ag un pwrpas. Mae rhaglen Rhoi Cymunedau’n Gyntaf Llywodraeth Cynulliad Cymru yn allweddol yn y gwaith hwn. Yr wyf wedi darparu £65 miliwn i fynd i’r afael â thlodi yn ardaloedd mwyaf difreintiedig Cymru dros y ddwy flynedd nesaf. Mae’n debyg y bydd y symiau o arian cyhoeddus a aiff i fwy na 100 o’r ardaloedd mwyaf difreintiedig yng Nghymru’n fwy o lawer na hynny, gan fod llawer o raglenni ariannu’r Cynulliad ac asiantaethau sector cyhoeddus eraill wedi targedu ardaloedd Rhoi Cymunedau’n Gyntaf.

Unemployment and economic inactivity affect standards of health, education and housing, as well as crime levels. Bringing separate departments together for a concerted and co-ordinated attack on particular local, social and economic problems now makes practical sense. The Assembly, at last, has made this possible. Dealing with some of these issues is about the art of the possible.

Mae diweithdra ac anweithgarwch economaidd yn effeithio ar safonau iechyd, addysg a thai, yn ogystal â lefelau troseddu. Mae synnwyr ymarferol yn awr mewn dod â gwahanol adrannau at ei gilydd i ymosod yn unol ac yn gydlynol ar broblemau cymdeithasol ac economaidd lleol penodol. Mae’r Cynulliad, o’r diwedd, yn peri bod modd gwneud hynny. Mae delio â rhai o’r materion hyn yn ymwneud â gwyddor y posibl.

Wales must equip its workforce, particularly its young people, with new skills and better qualifications. I hope that the successful establishment of Education and Learning Wales will revolutionise the way in which we deliver post-16 education and training in Wales. In addition, we have established Careers Wales, a national all-age guidance service that is unique in the UK, and also an all-age £27 million basic skills strategy to improve basic skills from early years to adulthood. I will also be looking to the new local health alliances to ensure that health and wellbeing feature prominently in Communities First partnership plans.

Rhaid i Gymru roi sgiliau newydd a gwell cymwysterau i’w gweithlu, yn enwedig ei phobl ifanc. Gobeithiaf y bydd sefydlu Dysgu ac Addysgu Cymru’n llwyddiannus yn fodd i chwyldroi’n dull o roi addysg a hyfforddiant ôl-16 yng Nghymru. Yn ogystal â hynny, yr ydym wedi sefydlu Gyrfa Cymru, gwasanaeth cyfarwyddyd cenedlaethol i bob oed sy’n unigryw yn y DU, a strategaeth sgiliau sylfaenol £27 miliwn i bob oed i wella sgiliau sylfaenol o’r blynyddoedd cynnar hyd at oedolaeth. Byddaf hefyd yn disgwyl i’r cynghreiriau iechyd lleol newydd sicrhau bod lle amlwg i iechyd a lles yn y cynlluniau partneriaeth Rhoi Cymunedau’n Gyntaf.

The Assembly and its partners have an important role to play in providing support to vulnerable and low-income households where people live in unfit housing. That is vital given the profound negative impact of poor housing on people’s physical and mental health and wellbeing.

Mae gan y Cynulliad a’i bartneriaid rôl bwysig i’w chwarae wrth ddarparu cymorth i deuluoedd sy’n agored i niwed a rhai ar incwm isel lle y mae pobl yn byw mewn tai anaddas. Mae hynny’n hollbwysig o wybod am yr effaith gwbl negyddol a gaiff tai gwael ar iechyd corfforol a meddyliol a lles pobl.

The Assembly’s Extending Entitlement initiative aims to provide better services and support for young people. The entitlement model provides the standards against which local provision for all groups of young people can be measured. One of the main problems affecting the futures of young people today is substance misuse. We are committing substantial and increasing resources to support the efforts of those who work in the field of substance misuse, focusing in particular on the treatment and care of young people who misuse substances.

Mae Ymestyn Hawliau, menter y Cynulliad, yn ceisio darparu gwell gwasanaethau a chymorth i bobl ifanc. Y model hawliau sy’n rhoi’r safonau i fesur y ddarpariaeth leol i bob grŵp o bobl ifanc. Un o’r problemau pennaf sy’n effeithio ar ddyfodol pobl ifanc heddiw yw camddefnyddio sylweddau. Yr ydym yn neilltuo adnoddau sylweddol a chynyddol i hybu ymdrechion y rhai sy’n gweithio ym maes camddefnyddio sylweddau, gan ganolbwyntio’n benodol ar driniaeth a gofal pobl ifanc sy’n camddefnyddio sylweddau.

The ability to keep in touch with friends and relatives is basic to a sense of community. I am particularly pleased that, from April, pensioners and disabled people in Wales will be guaranteed free travel on their local buses.

Mae’r gallu i gadw mewn cysylltiad â ffrindiau a pherthnasau’n hanfodol i’r ymdeimlad o gymuned. Yr wyf yn arbennig o falch y bydd pensiynwyr a phobl anabl yng Nghymru, o Ebrill ymlaen, yn gallu bod yn sicr o gael teithio am ddim ar eu bysiau lleol.

We must also bring down crime levels and create safer communities. This is backed by funding of over £20 million and a range of new statutory provisions provided by the UK and Assembly Governments, and every effort is being made to ensure that the funding goes where it is most needed, namely to the most deprived communities. That includes over £1 million for closed-circuit television projects in Communities First areas. The Assembly Government is helping directly with its own £2 million Safer Homes this Winter campaign.

Rhaid inni hefyd ostwng lefelau troseddu a chreu cymunedau mwy diogel. Ategir hynny drwy gyllid o dros £20 miliwn ynghyd ag amryw o ddarpariaethau statudol newydd gan Lywodraethau’r DU a’r Cynulliad, a gwneir pob ymdrech i sicrhau bod yr arian yn mynd at y mannau mwyaf anghenus, sef y cymunedau mwyaf difreintiedig. Mae hynny’n cynnwys dros £1 filiwn i brosiectau teledu cylch caeedig mewn ardaloedd Rhoi Cymunedau’n Gyntaf. Mae Llywodraeth y Cynulliad yn helpu’n uniongyrchol â’i hymgyrch Cartrefi Mwy Diogel y Gaeaf Hwn sy’n costio £2 filiwn.

We must also encourage more people to vote and to stand as candidates in elections. I want to see people with ability and drive being able to move on from community councils to county councils, to the Assembly, to Westminster and to Europe.

Rhaid inni hefyd annog mwy o bobl i bleidleisio a sefyll fel ymgeiswyr mewn etholiadau. Yr wyf am weld pobl â gallu a phenderfyniad sy’n gallu symud ymlaen o’r cynghorau cymuned i’r cynghorau sir, i’r Cynulliad, i San Steffan ac i Ewrop.

I cannot support the proposed amendments. Jonathan Morgan’s amendment 1 fails to recognise the inclusive approach needed to tackle social exclusion. The Government acknowledges the voluntary sector’s valuable contribution, but we need to bring business, local government, national Government agencies, and the community and voluntary sectors together to tackle problems in a concerted way. It would not be appropriate to single out one particular sector.

Ni allaf gefnogi’r gwelliannau a gynigiwyd. Mae gwelliant 1 Jonathan Morgan yn methu â chydnabod y dull cynhwysol sydd ei angen i fynd i’r afael ag allgáu cymdeithasol. Mae’r Llywodraeth yn cydnabod cyfraniad gwerthfawr y sector gwirfoddol, ond mae angen inni ddod â busnes, llywodraeth leol, asiantaethau’r Llywodraeth genedlaethol, a’r sectorau cymunedol a gwirfoddol at ei gilydd i fynd i’r afael â’r problemau ar y cyd. Ni fyddai’n briodol sôn am un sector yn benodol.

Amendment 2 in the name of Jocelyn Davies reflects the Welsh Assembly Government’s recognition that children and young people are often the most vulnerable members of society, and the most at risk from social exclusion. The annual report specifically highlights the policies and programmes we have in place to ensure that they have the best possible start in life. Therefore, I do not believe that the amendment is relevant.

Mae gwelliant 2 yn enw Jocelyn Davies yn adlewyrchu cydnabyddiaeth Llywodraeth Cynulliad Cymru mai plant a phobl ifanc yn aml yw’r rhai mwyaf diamddiffyn mewn cymdeithas, a’r rhai sy’n fwyaf agored i’r perygl o allgáu cymdeithasol. Mae’r adroddiad blynyddol yn tynnu sylw’n benodol at y polisïau a’r rhaglenni sydd ar waith gennym i sicrhau’r dechrau gorau posibl mewn bywyd iddynt. Felly, ni chredaf fod y gwelliant yn berthnasol.

On amendment 3 in the name of Jocelyn Davies, all Assembly Government legislation must be consistent with the Assembly’s key themes, one of which is social inclusion. Concerns about specific legislation will be most usefully voiced in Subject Committees. The community regeneration and social inclusion policy board will monitor the effects of legislation at a practical and strategic level, and the annual report will review and reassess the policies. Therefore, the spirit of Jocelyn’s amendment can be taken on board.

Ynghylch gwelliant 3 yn enw Jocelyn Davies, rhaid i holl ddeddfwriaeth Llywodraeth y Cynulliad fod yn gyson â themâu allweddol y Cynulliad, ac un o’r rheini yw cynhwysiant cymdeithasol. Yn y Pwyllgorau Pwnc y gellir mynegi pryderon ynghylch deddfwriaeth benodol yn fwyaf buddiol. Bydd y bwrdd polisi adfywio cymunedol a chynhwysiant cymdeithasol yn monitro effeithiau deddfwriaeth ar y lefel ymarferol a strategol, a bydd yr adroddiad blynyddol yn adolygu ac yn ailasesu’r polisïau. Felly, gellir cynnwys ysbryd gwelliant Jocelyn.

Wales has an economy of scale where it makes sense to seek comprehensive solutions to our social and economic problems. The Government believes that the idea of bringing together business, local government, national agencies and voluntary bodies to tackle social exclusion and poverty in a concerted way makes perfect sense. It is also the most effective and efficient way of creating a happier and more prosperous society. I commend the motion to you.

Mae economeg maint Cymru’n golygu ei bod yn gwneud synnwyr ceisio atebion cynhwysfawr i’n problemau cymdeithasol ac economaidd. Mae’r Llywodraeth o’r farn bod y syniad o ddod â busnes, llywodraeth leol, asiantaethau cenedlaethol a chyrff gwirfoddol at ei gilydd i fynd i’r afael ag allgáu cymdeithasol a thlodi ar y cyd yn gwbl synhwyrol. Dyma’r modd mwyaf effeithiol ac effeithlon hefyd i greu cymdeithas hapusach a mwy ffyniannus. Cymeradwyaf y cynnig i chi.

John Marek The Deputy Presiding Officer spoken in English p. 82

John Marek Y Dirprwy Lywydd siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 82

Before I call the next speaker, I inform Members that I have a long list of speakers, and I hope that everybody will have the chance to speak. I do not want to impose a three-minute time limit, but speeches must be strictly limited to five minutes, and I will use my red button immediately after the five minutes is up.

Cyn imi alw ar y siaradwr nesaf, yr wyf yn hysbysu’r Aelodau bod gennyf restr hir o siaradwyr, a gobeithiaf y caiff pawb gyfle i siarad. Ni ddymunaf orfodi cyfyngiad amser tair munud, ond rhaid cyfyngu’r areithiau i bum munud yn ddieithriad, a byddaf yn defnyddio fy motwm coch yn syth wedi i’r pum munud ddod i ben.

David Melding spoken in English p. 82

David Melding siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 82

I propose amendment 1 in the name of Jonathan Morgan. Add at the end of the motion:

Cynigiaf welliant 1 yn enw Jonathan Morgan. Ychwanegu ar ddiwedd y cynnig:

David Melding (continued) spoken in English p. 82

David Melding (parhad) siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 82

This is an important subject, and I hoped that we would achieve a high level of consensus; obviously we will not get that on the amendments, but perhaps we will get agreement on the importance of promoting social inclusion. I want to reflect on a few things that the Minister has said, because there have been some positive developments. She mentioned credit unions, which I think are an excellent use of market forces and which build on the old co-operative idea that if you live in a capitalist system, you may as well use all the devices at your disposal. That is what credit unions do. People with somewhat modest means have every right to access loans and savings accounts that offer a reasonable rate of interest. This is important, because most people enter into some form of loan agreement, and most of us probably do not realise that many people do not have access to the more competitive rates because of a low or irregular income. Therefore, encouraging credit unions is important. They tend to be locally based, and this is a crucial element in their appeal. I understand that there may be some developments in basing credit unions in employment sectors, which may be another way of developing this important concept. That is encouraging.

Mae hwn yn bwnc pwysig, ac yr oeddwn wedi gobeithio y byddem wedi gallu sicrhau llawer o gonsensws; mae’n amlwg na chawn hynny ar y gwelliannau, ond efallai y cawn gytundeb ar bwysigrwydd hyrwyddo cynhwysiant cymdeithasol. Dymunaf roi ystyriaeth i ychydig o’r pethau a ddywedodd y Gweinidog, oherwydd bu rhai datblygiadau cadarnhaol. Crybwyllodd undebau credyd, sy’n ddefnydd rhagorol o rymoedd y farchnad, yn fy marn i, ac yn adeiladu ar sail yr hen syniad cydweithredol sef, os ydych yn byw mewn system gyfalafol, ei bod cystal ichi ddefnyddio pob dyfais sydd ar gael i chi. Dyna a wnaiff yr undebau credyd. Mae gan bobl sydd ag adnoddau gweddol fach bob hawl i gael benthyciadau a chyfrifon cynilo sy’n cynnig cyfraddau llog rhesymol. Mae hyn yn bwysig, oherwydd mae’r rhan fwyaf o bobl yn gwneud rhyw fath o gytundeb benthyciad, ac mae’n debyg nad yw’r rhan fwyaf ohonom yn sylweddoli nad yw llawer o bobl yn gallu cael at y cyfraddau mwy cystadleuol am fod eu hincwm yn isel neu’n afreolaidd. Gan hynny, mae hybu undebau credyd yn bwysig. Maent yn tueddu i fod wedi’u lleoli’n lleol, ac mae hynny’n elfen hollbwysig yn eu hapêl. Deallaf ei bod yn bosibl y bydd datblygiadau o ran lleoli undebau credyd mewn sectorau cyflogaeth, a allai fod yn ddull arall o ddatblygu’r cysyniad pwysig hwn. Mae hynny’n galonogol.

The involvement of young people has improved over the last few years, and the youth forums that have been set up in Wales will be a positive way of receiving views from that important sector of the population. Young people receive so many of the public services for which we are responsible, and yet, traditionally, they do not have an effective voice. I commend the work of the Vale of Glamorgan Council in setting up a youth forum, and, incidentally, it has conducted an excellent survey, which I believe is a model of good practice, and which Members may be interested in examining. This has definitely been an advance and we are right to tell the health service and local government that they must engage this group effectively, and take it seriously.

Bu gwelliant yn y rhan a gymerir gan bobl ifanc dros y blynyddoedd diwethaf hyn, a bydd y fforymau ieuenctid a sefydlwyd yng Nghymru’n ddull cadarnhaol o gael barn gan y sector pwysig hwnnw o’r boblogaeth. Pobl ifanc sy’n derbyn llawer o’r gwasanaethau cyhoeddus yr ydym yn gyfrifol amdanynt, ac eto, yn draddodiadol, nid oes ganddynt lais effeithiol. Cymeradwyaf waith Cyngor Bro Morgannwg yn sefydlu fforwm ieuenctid, a gyda llaw, mae wedi cynnal arolwg rhagorol, sy’n fodel o arfer da, yn fy marn i, ac y gallai fod o ddiddordeb i’r Aelodau ei weld. Fe fu cynnydd, yn sicr, ac mae’n iawn inni ddweud wrth y gwasanaeth iechyd a llywodraeth leol fod yn rhaid iddynt gynnwys y grŵp hwn yn effeithiol, a’i gymryd o ddifrif.

Praising health alliances is appropriate. Promoting good health and encouraging communities to come together and take effective action across a wide range of agencies is undoubtedly the best way of improving health and wellbeing in the long term. It has been the favoured method of promoting public health since the middle of the nineteenth century, when it was discovered in Merthyr Tydfil that the standard of the water supply and sewerage disposal was massively important to the health of people. When the public engineers got that right, public health improved greatly, and to a larger extent than could have been achieved by any direct clinical intervention at the time. Therefore, I believe that health alliances build on a noble Welsh tradition, and are important in gaining substantial improvement in the health of the general population.

Mae’n briodol canmol y cynghreiriau iechyd. Hybu iechyd da ac annog cymunedau i ddod at ei gilydd a chymryd camau effeithiol drwy amrywiaeth eang o gyfryngau yw’r dull gorau, yn sicr, o wella iechyd a lles yn y tymor hir. Dyna’r dewis dull o hybu iechyd cyhoeddus ers canol y bedwaredd ganrif ar bymtheg, pan ddarganfuwyd ym Merthyr Tudful fod safon y cyflenwad dŵr a gwaredu carthion yn aruthrol bwysig i iechyd pobl. Pan lwyddodd y peirianwyr cyhoeddus yn hynny o beth, bu gwelliant mawr mewn iechyd cyhoeddus, a hynny i fwy o raddau nag y buasai modd ei gyflawni drwy unrhyw ymyriad clinigol uniongyrchol ar y pryd. Felly, credaf fod y cynghreiriau iechyd yn adeiladu ar sail traddodiad Cymreig anrhydeddus, a’u bod yn bwysig wrth sicrhau gwelliant sylweddol yn iechyd y boblogaeth gyffredinol.

Finally, I want to return to the subject of the voluntary sector. In all these areas that I have mentioned, the voluntary sector is the best agency. It has the best connections to local communities and is best placed to give us some challenging advice and to stand up to us, telling us that our priorities are not quite right or that we need more emphasis on certain issues. That is why we have singled out the voluntary sector. I accept what the Minister says that it must be a coherent and co-ordinated approach, but I am disappointed that she has cannot support the amendment. However, I will not dwell on it because a consensus must be promoted on this particular debate.

Yn olaf, dymunaf fynd yn ôl at bwnc y sector gwirfoddol. Yn yr holl feysydd y soniais amdanynt, y sector gwirfoddol yw’r cyfrwng gorau. Ganddo ef y mae’r cysylltiadau gorau â chymunedau lleol ac ef sydd yn y sefyllfa orau i roi rhywfaint o gyngor ymestynnol i ni ac i’n herio, gan ddweud wrthym nad yw’n blaenoriaethau’n hollol gywir neu fod angen inni roi mwy o bwyslais ar rai materion. Dyna pam yr ydym wedi sôn am y sector gwirfoddol yn benodol. Derbyniaf yr hyn a ddywed y Gweinidog fod yn rhaid iddo fod yn ddull cydlynol a chyd-drefnedig, ond yr wyf yn siomedig nad yw’n gallu cefnogi’r gwelliant. Fodd bynnag, nid af ar ôl hynny oherwydd rhaid hyrwyddo consensws yn y ddadl benodol hon.

Janet Ryder spoken in English p. 84

Janet Ryder siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 84

I propose the following amendments in the name of Jocelyn Davies. Amendment 2: add a new paragraph:

Cynigiaf y gwelliannau canlynol yn enw Jocelyn Davies. Gwelliant 2: ychwanegu paragraff newydd:

Janet Ryder (continued) spoken in English p. 84

Janet Ryder (parhad) siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 84

I propose amendment 3. Add a new paragraph:

Cynigiaf welliant 2. Ychwanegu paragraff newydd:

Janet Ryder (continued) spoken in English p. 84

Janet Ryder (parhad) siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 84

I begin by declaring an interest, which I should have done in the previous debate. This social inclusion report should be one of the most important reports that this Assembly produces. However, it is difficult to define the boundaries of what should or should not be contained in it. The format and contents have evolved and, hopefully, will go on evolving and it is an improvement on last year’s report—they improve each year that we do this—in format and in detail.

Dechreuaf drwy ddatgan buddiant, y dylaswn fod wedi’i ddatgan yn y ddadl flaenorol. Dylai’r adroddiad cynhwysiant cymdeithasol hwn fod yn un o’r adroddiadau pwysicaf y mae’r Cynulliad hwn yn ei gynhyrchu. Fodd bynnag, anodd yw pennu ffiniau’r hyn a ddylai neu na ddylai fod ynddo. Mae’r ffurf a’r cynnwys wedi datblygu ac, yr wyf yn gobeithio, bydd yn parhau i ddatblygu ac mae’n well nag adroddiad y llynedd—maent yn gwella bob blwyddyn yr ydym yn gwneud hyn—o ran ffurf a manylder.

Plaid Cymru’s amendment 2 concerns child poverty. It is a fact that children in Wales are more likely to come from families on low incomes than children in other parts of the UK. The child poverty action group report has underlined that 36 per cent of children in Wales live in homes with less than half the average UK income. However, because a child’s financial state tends to depend on that of its parents, this statement also touches on the wider issue of general poverty and states clearly that 36 per cent of households in Wales earn less than half the average UK income. That is a damning statistic and a point worthy of note. It is appropriate to this report on social inclusion, for what greater cause is there of social exclusion than the level of income per household?

Mae gwelliant 2 Plaid Cymru’n ymwneud â thlodi plant. Mae’n ffaith bod plant yng Nghymru’n fwy tebygol o ddod o deuluoedd sydd ar incwm isel na phlant mewn rhannau eraill o’r DU. Mae adroddiad y grŵp gweithredu tlodi plant wedi tynnu sylw at y ffaith bod 36 y cant o’r plant yng Nghymru’n byw mewn cartrefi sydd â llai na hanner incwm cyfartalog y DU. Fodd bynnag, am fod sefyllfa ariannol y plentyn yn tueddu i ddibynnu ar un ei rieni, mae’r datganiad hwn yn cyfeirio hefyd at fater ehangach tlodi cyffredinol ac yn datgan yn glir fod 36 y cant o’r teuluoedd yng Nghymru’n ennill llai na hanner incwm cyfartalog y DU. Mae hwnnw’n ystadegyn damniol ac yn bwynt gwerth ei nodi. Mae’n berthnasol i’r adroddiad hwn ar gynhwysiant cymdeithasol, oherwydd beth sy’n achosi allgáu cymdeithasol yn fwy na lefel yr incwm y teulu?

If that is the case, and if the Assembly has a duty to bring forward social inclusion, how will we measure whether or not we are succeeding? This annual report could be used for that purpose. We are all aware of the statements made this week by the Member for Merthyr Tydfil and Rhymney, who does not feel that this administration is fulfilling its duty to reduce poverty and to create social justice. On other occasions, the same Member has called for an assessment of how the Assembly uses its budget to ensure that money is being directed towards that purpose. Plaid Cymru agrees. We need to develop such a mechanism and perhaps this annual report could, and should, be part of that. However, if this report remains a collection of all the statements, policies and directives issued by the Labour/Liberal Government, but fails to monitor any progress towards them, it is failing in its job. It is incredibly difficult to devise a measure for many of the issues raised in this report. However, in last year’s report, I called for improved data to be made available in the field of social exclusion and I repeat that call this year. I appreciate that we have the index of multiple deprivation and ‘Mapping Social Exclusion in Wales’, but that document was published in 1999. Does the Minister feel that it is now time to publish another mapping exercise of that kind? The child poverty action group notes in its research that there is no uniformly agreed measure to assess poverty figures. I hope that, by the time of next year’s annual report, we will have up-to-date Government statistics by which to measure progress against its targets.

Os felly y mae, ac os oes dyletswydd ar y Cynulliad i hyrwyddo cynhwysiant cymdeithasol, sut y byddwn yn mesur a ydym yn llwyddo ai peidio? Gellid defnyddio’r adroddiad blynyddol hwn i’r diben hwnnw. Yr ydym oll yn ymwybodol o’r datganiadau yr wythnos hon gan yr Aelod dros Ferthyr Tudful a Rhymni, nad yw’n teimlo bod y weinyddiaeth hon yn cyflawni’i dyletswydd i leihau tlodi a chreu cyfiawnder cymdeithasol. Ar adegau eraill, mae’r un Aelod wedi galw am asesiad o’r modd y mae’r Cynulliad yn defnyddio’i gyllideb i sicrhau y caiff arian ei gyfeirio i’r diben hwnnw. Mae Plaid Cymru’n cytuno. Rhaid inni ddatblygu mecanwaith o’r fath ac efallai y gallai ac y dylai’r adroddiad blynyddol hwn fod yn rhan o hynny. Fodd bynnag, os yw’r adroddiad hwn yn parhau’n gasgliad o’r holl ddatganiadau, polisïau a chyfarwyddiadau a gyhoeddwyd gan y Llywodraeth Lafur/Ryddfrydol, ond yn methu â monitro unrhyw gynnydd tuag at eu cyflawni, mae’n methu yn ei waith. Mae’n anhygoel o anodd dyfeisio mesur i lawer o’r materion a godir yn yr adroddiad hwn. Fodd bynnag, yn yr adroddiad y llynedd, galwais am ddarparu gwell data ym maes allgáu cymdeithasol ac ailddatganaf yr alwad honno eleni. Sylweddolaf fod y mynegrif amddifadedd lluosog a ‘Mapio Dieithrwch Cymdeithasol yng Nghymru’ gennym, ond cyhoeddwyd y ddogfen honno yn 1999. A yw’r Gweinidog yn teimlo ei bod bellach yn bryd cyhoeddi ymarfer mapio arall o’r math hwnnw? Mae’r grŵp gweithredu tlodi plant yn nodi yn ei ymchwil nad oes mesur cytunedig unffurf i asesu’r ffigurau tlodi. Gobeithiaf, erbyn adeg yr adroddiad blynyddol y flwyddyn nesaf, y bydd gennym ystadegau Llywodraeth cyfoes i fesur y cynnydd yn erbyn y targedau hynny.

The UK Government has promised to eradicate child and pensioner poverty by the end of the decade. The indications are that it is failing miserably. A quarter of the population—13 million people—live in poverty. That fact is made even worse when you consider that the UK has the fourth richest economy in the world. Can the Government of Wales honestly say that it is doing any better than its UK counterpart in achieving this aim? In that case, how will Wales measure that progress?

Mae Llywodraeth y DU wedi addo dileu tlodi plant a phensiynwyr erbyn diwedd y degawd. Yr arwyddion yw ei bod yn methu’n druenus. Mae chwarter y boblogaeth—13 miliwn o bobl—yn byw mewn tlodi. Mae’r ffaith honno’n waeth byth pan ystyriwch mai gan y DU y mae’r economi bedwaredd gyfoethocaf yn y byd. A all Llywodraeth Cymru ddweud yn onest ei bod yn gwneud yn well o gwbl na’i chymheiriad yn y DU wrth gyflawni’r nod hwnnw? Os felly, sut y bydd Cymru’n mesur y cynnydd hwnnw?

Gwenda Thomas spoken in English p. 86

Gwenda Thomas siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 86

I am pleased to support the motion on the second annual report on social inclusion in Wales, and to commend the Welsh Assembly Government in its determination to tackle poverty and social disadvantage throughout Wales. This report provides a useful overview of how the Welsh Assembly Government’s policies and programmes address poverty and social exclusion in the most deprived communities in Wales.

Yr wyf yn falch o gefnogi’r cynnig ar yr ail adroddiad blynyddol ar gynhwysiant cymdeithasol yng Nghymru, ac o longyfarch Llywodraeth Cynulliad Cymru ar ei phenderfyniad i fynd i’r afael â thlodi ac anfantais gymdeithasol ledled Cymru. Mae’r adroddiad hwn yn arolwg buddiol o sut y mae polisïau a rhaglenni Llywodraeth Cynulliad Cymru’n ymdrin â thlodi ac allgáu cymdeithasol yn y cymunedau mwyaf difreintiedig yng Nghymru.

I acknowledge that the targets included in the report have been reviewed following the Local Government and Housing Committee’s consideration of the draft report on 13 February. However, I will take this opportunity to repeat some concerns that were voiced by Committee members when it debated the report at its meeting on 6 March. The Committee considered measures and targets that were included in the report and felt that consideration should be given to enhancing and sustaining funding for key organisations involved in tackling social exclusion in Wales through organisations in the voluntary sector. During the Committee meeting on 13 February, I referred to the fact that there were no specific references to childcare in the proposed targets. However, it was suggested that the report should include additional targets reflecting the recommendations contained in the Waterhouse report. I made particular reference to the new secure unit recently opened at Park prison, Bridgend for 15 to 17-year-olds. I am pleased that the Minister agreed to write to the Home Office to ascertain whether the Waterhouse recommendations were being implemented at Park prison. I await the Home Office’s response with interest.

Derbyniaf fod y targedau a geir yn yr adroddiad wedi’u hadolygu ar ôl i’r Pwyllgor Llywodraeth Leol a Thai ystyried yr adroddiad drafft ar 13 Chwefror. Fodd bynnag, manteisiaf ar y cyfle hwn i ailadrodd rhai pryderon a fynegwyd gan aelodau’r Pwyllgor pan drafododd yr adroddiad yn ei gyfarfod ar 6 Mawrth. Ystyriodd y Pwyllgor y mesurau a’r targedau a oedd yn yr adroddiad a theimlai y dylid ystyried gwella a pharhau â’r arian i’r cyrff allweddol sy’n ymwneud ag ymladd allgáu cymdeithasol yng Nghymru drwy gyrff yn y sector gwirfoddol. Yn ystod cyfarfod y Pwyllgor ar 13 Chwefror, cyfeiriais at y ffaith nad oedd cyfeiriadau penodol at ofal plant yn y targedau arfaethedig. Fodd bynnag, awgrymwyd y dylai’r adroddiad gynnwys targedau ychwanegol sy’n adlewyrchu’r argymhellion a geir yn adroddiad Waterhouse. Cyfeiriais yn benodol at yr uned gadw newydd a agorwyd yng ngharchar y Parc, Pen-y-bont ar Ogwr i rai 15 i 17 mlwydd oed. Yr wyf yn falch fod y Gweinidog wedi cytuno i ysgrifennu at y Swyddfa Gartref i gael gwybod a yw argymhellion Waterhouse yn cael eu gweithredu yng ngharchar y Parc. Yr wyf yn disgwyl ymateb y Swyddfa Gartref â diddordeb.

At the Committee meeting on 6 March, Members highlighted the need to ensure that children and young people have access to primary healthcare and the importance of developing strategies to increase access to dentistry services, given the shortage of dentists in areas of deprivation. As the Minister has already said, concern was also raised about the difficulties faced by homeless people in accessing primary healthcare services. It was therefore suggested that the social inclusion report should include additional details about the actions being taken by the Welsh Assembly Government to improve accessibility to GP services for vulnerable and socially excluded people. I thank the Minister for indicating that she has and will take the Committee’s recommendations into account.

Yng nghyfarfod y Pwyllgor ar 6 Mawrth, tynnodd yr Aelodau sylw at yr angen i sicrhau bod plant a phobl ifanc yn gallu derbyn gofal iechyd sylfaenol a phwysigrwydd datblygu strategaethau i gynyddu’r mynediad at wasanaethau deintyddol, o ystyried y prinder deintyddion mewn ardaloedd difreintiedig. Fel y dywedodd y Gweinidog eisoes, mynegwyd pryder hefyd ynghylch yr anawsterau y mae pobl ddigartref yn eu hwynebu wrth geisio gwasanaethau gofal iechyd sylfaenol. Oherwydd hynny, awgrymwyd y dylai’r adroddiad ar gynhwysiant cymdeithasol gynnwys manylion ychwanegol am y camau a gymerir gan Lywodraeth Cynulliad Cymru i’w gwneud yn haws i bobl sy’n agored i niwed a rhai a allgaewyd yn gymdeithasol dderbyn gwasanaethau meddygon teulu. Diolchaf i’r Gweinidog am nodi ei bod wedi ac y bydd yn ystyried argymhellion y Pwyllgor.

Jocelyn Davies spoken in English p. 87

Jocelyn Davies siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 87

In support of our amendment 3, I will talk about the implementation of the legislation that we passed in February last year to extend the categories of homeless people in priority need—a measure that we knew would impact on social inclusion. Casework by housing groups since then has highlighted several problems in applying this new legislation and we must address that quickly. There appears to be a lack of awareness of the new duties, so that many potential eligible people are not seeking assistance from local authorities. There is also a worrying lack of awareness by many staff who work with people who may be eligible for rehousing under the new law. There are too many incorrect decisions by councils when those who should be eligible are applying for housing. There is an increase in local authority intentionality decisions, where the local authority has accepted that someone is homeless and there is a duty to assist them, but finds other reasons for turning them away. Those working in the field are concerned that a lack of knowledge, combined with what could easily be seen as a determination not to comply with the spirit and intention of the new legislation by some, has meant that people who should have been assisted by the new law have been let down.

I gefnogi gwelliant 3 o’r eiddom, siaradaf am weithrediad y ddeddfwriaeth y gwnaethom ei phasio fis Chwefror y llynedd i ymestyn y categorïau o bobl ddigartref ag angen blaenoriaethol—cam y gwyddem y byddai’n cael effaith ar gynhwysiant cymdeithasol. Mae gwaith achos gan grwpiau tai ers hynny wedi tynnu sylw at nifer o broblemau a gafwyd wrth weithredu’r ddeddfwriaeth newydd hon a rhaid inni roi sylw i hynny’n gyflym. Ymddengys fod diffyg ymwybyddiaeth o’r dyletswyddau newydd, fel bod llawer o bobl a allai fod yn gymwys nad ydynt yn ceisio cymorth gan yr awdurdodau lleol. Mae diffyg ymwybyddiaeth hefyd ymysg llawer o’r staff sy’n gweithio gyda rhai a allai fod yn gymwys i’w hailgartrefu o dan y ddeddf newydd, ac mae hyn yn peri pryder. Ceir gormod o benderfyniadau anghywir gan y cynghorau pan yw’r rhai a ddylai fod yn gymwys yn ymgeisio am dai. Mae cynnydd yn nifer y penderfyniadau o fwriadoldeb gan yr awdurdodau lleol, lle y mae’r awdurdod lleol wedi derbyn bod rhywun yn ddigartref a bod dyletswydd i’w gynorthwyo, ond yn darganfod rhesymau eraill dros ei wrthod. Mae’r rhai sy’n gweithio yn y maes yn pryderu bod diffyg gwybodaeth, ynghyd â’r hyn y gellid ei ystyried yn hawdd yn benderfyniad i beidio â chydymffurfio ag ysbryd a bwriad y ddeddfwriaeth newydd gan rai, wedi golygu bod rhai pobl a ddylasai fod wedi derbyn cymorth drwy’r ddeddf newydd wedi’u siomi.

The most common problems are that local authorities are overriding the new legislation with local exclusion policies and local councils using the tab, ‘intentional homelessness’, to avoid full rehousing duties. For example, a 17-year-old male was refused temporary accommodation and any other assistance because of a previous conviction for criminal damage; a 16-year-old became homeless after her mother moved to Scotland, but was found intentionally homeless for not going with her, and a young single woman fleeing violence from a former partner was also considered to have made her self homeless intentionally. These cases, and many others—

Y problemau mwyaf cyffredin yw bod yr awdurdodau lleol yn sarnu ar y ddeddfwriaeth newydd â pholisïau allgáu lleol a bod y cynghorau lleol yn defnyddio’r label ‘digartrefedd bwriadol’ i osgoi’r dyletswyddau ailgartrefu llawn. Er enghraifft, gwrthodwyd llety dros dro ac unrhyw gymorth arall i wryw 17 mlwydd oed oherwydd euogfarn flaenorol am ddifrod troseddol; daeth merch 16 mlwydd oed i fod yn ddigartref wedi i’w mam symud i’r Alban, ond penderfynwyd ei bod yn fwriadol ddigartref am nad oedd wedi mynd gyda hi, a barnwyd hefyd fod benyw sengl ifanc a oedd yn ffoi rhag trais dan law ei chyn gymar wedi’i gwneud ei hun yn ddigartref o fwriad. Mae’r achosion hyn, a llawer o rai eraill—

Peter Black spoken in English p. 88

Peter Black siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 88

You raise important points. I am aware of the number of inconsistencies in the way that local councils apply this legislation. I have raised them with the relevant officials and it is important that examples are brought to the attention of officials so that guidance can be considered to see if it can be amended accordingly.

Codwch bwyntiau pwysig. Yr wyf yn ymwybodol o nifer yr anghysonderau yn y modd y mae’r cynghorau lleol yn gweithredu’r ddeddfwriaeth hon. Yr wyf wedi’u codi gyda’r swyddogion perthnasol ac mae’n bwysig dwyn enghreifftiau i sylw’r swyddogion fel y gellir ystyried cyfarwyddyd i weld a oes modd ei newid yn unol â hynny

Jocelyn Davies spoken in English p. 88

Jocelyn Davies siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 88

As I said, with these cases and, I am sure, many others, the local authority’s initial decision has been successfully challenged and reversed with Shelter’s assistance. That demonstrates, as you rightly said, the weakness of those decisions in the first place. However, what about those people who do not have the presence of mind to contact Shelter, the Assembly or other organisations? After all, those who are most in need of advice are often those who are unable to access it.

Fel y dywedais, yn yr achosion hyn ac, yr wyf yn siŵr, mewn llawer o rai eraill, fe heriwyd penderfyniad cyntaf yr awdurdod lleol yn llwyddiannus a’i wrthdroi â chymorth Shelter. Mae hynny, fel y dywedasoch, yn dangos gwendid y penderfyniadau hynny yn y lle cyntaf. Fodd bynnag, beth am y bobl hynny nad ydynt yn ddigon effro i gysylltu â Shelter, y Cynulliad neu gyrff eraill? Wedi’r cwbl, y rhai y mae arnynt angen cyngor mwyaf yn aml yw’r rhai na allant ei gyrraedd.

We are not in favour of taking power away from local authorities. However, as Peter said, there is evidence of injustice and that the new legislation is being interpreted inconsistently. The Minister could, perhaps, consider assisting local authorities by giving them further guidance, because we need to support them in the implementation of these proposals rather than resort to naming and shaming. It is only right that people who need shelter are treated consistently throughout Wales. The Minister has already indicated that the Government will not support the amendment, but will take these comments back to the Subject Committee. I thank her for that, and request that she does so as a matter of urgency. In her response to this debate, could she please indicate when that is likely to happen?

Nid ydym o blaid mynd â phŵer oddi wrth yr awdurdodau lleol. Fodd bynnag, fel y dywedodd Peter, mae tystiolaeth o anghyfiawnder a bod y ddeddfwriaeth newydd yn cael ei dehongli’n anghyson. Efallai y gallai’r Gweinidog ystyried cynorthwyo’r awdurdodau lleol drwy roi cyfarwyddyd pellach iddynt, oherwydd rhaid inni eu cynorthwyo wrth weithredu’r cynigion hyn yn hytrach na throi at eu henwi a’u cywilyddio. Nid yw ond yn iawn i bobl y mae arnynt angen lloches gael eu trin yn gyson ledled Cymru. Mae’r Gweinidog wedi nodi eisoes na fydd y Llywodraeth yn cefnogi’r gwelliant, ond y bydd yn mynd â’r sylwadau hyn yn ôl i’r Pwyllgor Pwnc. Diolchaf iddi am hynny, a gofyn iddi wneud hynny fel mater o frys. Yn ei hymateb i’r ddadl hon, a allai nodi pryd y mae hynny’n debygol o ddigwydd, os gwêl yn dda?

Ann Jones spoken in English p. 89

Ann Jones siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 89

This is the most important issue on which the Assembly should concentrate. We need to ensure that we continue to take forward our agenda for tackling poverty and the causes of poverty. We need to confront poverty, but we also need to promote opportunity. Opportunity for all is at the core of my party’s values. Poverty cannot be removed by Government action alone: it needs to work with parents and with voluntary, charitable and community organisations. Despite Mrs Thatcher’s unfortunate pronouncement on society, there is such a thing as society: a community of communities, tens of thousands of local neighbourhoods, civic associations, unions, charities, voluntary organisations—each one unique and special. I want Wales to be energised by that, by a million centres of action and compassion, of concern and initiative that together embody a Welsh idea—that of a civic society.

Dyma’r mater pwysicaf y dylai’r Cynulliad ganolbwyntio arno. Rhaid inni sicrhau ein bod yn bwrw ymlaen â’n hagenda i fynd i’r afael â thlodi ac achosion tlodi. Rhaid inni wrthwynebu tlodi, ond rhaid inni hyrwyddo cyfleoedd hefyd. Cyfle i bawb yw un o werthoedd canolog fy mhlaid. Ni ellir dileu tlodi drwy gamau gan y Llywodraeth yn unig: rhaid iddi weithio gyda rhieni a chyda chyrff gwirfoddol, elusennol a chymunedol. Er gwaethaf datganiad anffodus Mrs Thatcher am gymdeithas, mae’r fath beth â chymdeithas yn bodoli: cymuned o gymunedau, degau o filoedd o gymdogaethau lleol, cymdeithasau dinesig, undebau, elusennau, cyrff gwirfoddol—pob un yn unigryw ac yn arbennig. Yr wyf am i Gymru gael ei sbarduno drwy hynny, gan filiwn o ganolfannau gweithredu a thosturi, pryder a menter sydd gyda’i gilydd yn ymgorffori syniad Cymreig—sef cymdeithas ddinesig.

I will concentrate on the fact that it is our responsibility to guarantee opportunities for all and that children have a decent start in life. Action on child poverty is the obligation that this generation owes to the next. Millions of children who should not be growing up in poverty are destined to fail before their life’s journey has begun because of deprivation and the lack of opportunity. We know that unless we act now, life will never be fair for these children. Children in deprived areas need, deserve and must have Government on their side—a Government committed to and fighting for social justice. My Government has made that start at Westminster, with record child benefits, the minimum wage, New Deal for lone parents and the children’s tax credit. Thanks to the Minister for Finance, Local Government and Communities, the Assembly has produced the Communities First programme.

Canolbwyntiaf ar y ffaith mai’n cyfrifoldeb ni yw sicrhau cyfleoedd i bawb a bod plant yn cael dechrau gweddus mewn bywyd. Gweithredu ar dlodi plant yw dyletswydd y genhedlaeth hon at yr un nesaf. Mae miliynau o blant na ddylent fod yn tyfu mewn tlodi wedi’u tynghedu i fethu cyn dechrau eu taith drwy fywyd oherwydd amddifadedd a diffyg cyfle. Fe wyddom, os na weithredwn yn awr, na fydd bywyd byth yn deg â’r plant hyn. Mae ar blant mewn ardaloedd difreintiedig angen cael y Llywodraeth o’u plaid; dyna’u haeddiant a rhaid iddynt gael hynny—Llywodraeth sydd wedi ymrwymo i gyfiawnder cymdeithasol ac yn ymladd drosto. Mae fy Llywodraeth wedi dechrau gwneud hynny yn San Steffan, gyda’r budd-daliadau plant mwyaf erioed, yr isafswm cyflog, y Fargen Newydd i rieni unigol a’r credyd treth plant. Diolch i’r Gweinidog dros Gyllid, Llywodraeth Leol a Chymunedau, mae’r Cynulliad wedi cynhyrchu’r rhaglen Rhoi Cymunedau’n Gyntaf.

There is overwhelming evidence that the first three years of a child’s life are critical to his or her personal development. They can have a lifelong impact on a child’s intellectual and emotional wellbeing. Cymorth, the children and youth support fund, will bring together various strands of funding, which will be channelled into a single, simplified funding stream. That will be targeted at our top 100 most deprived communities and will encourage local initiatives and community action in the war against poverty.

Mae tystiolaeth ddiymwad bod y tair blynedd cyntaf o oes y plentyn yn hollbwysig i’w ddatblygiad personol. Gallant gael effaith ar les deallusol ac emosiynol y plentyn ar hyd ei oes. Bydd Cymorth, y gronfa cymorth plant a phobl ifanc, yn dod â’r gwahanol ffynonellau ariannu at ei gilydd, ac fe’u sianelir i un ffrwd ariannu symlach. Targedir honno ar y 100 o gymunedau mwyaf difreintiedig a bydd yn hybu mentrau lleol a gweithredu cymunedol yn y rhyfel yn erbyn tlodi.

The Assembly’s learning grant will help students across Wales with the cost of staying in education. In the west ward of Rhyl, which is part of my constituency, only three out of every 100 children will look at further education, whereas in another part of my constituency, 82 out of 100 children will enter further education. We have to remove those anomalies from the system. The Assembly learning grant will help us achieve that. I could mention other programmes, but I do not have time.

Bydd grant dysgu’r Cynulliad yn helpu myfyrwyr ledled Cymru gyda chostau aros mewn addysg. Yn ward orllewinol y Rhyl, sy’n rhan o’m hetholaeth i, dim ond tri o bob 100 o blant a fydd yn gweld addysg bellach, tra bydd 82 o bob 100 o blant mewn rhan arall o’m hetholaeth yn mynd i addysg bellach. Rhaid inni ddileu’r anghysonderau hynny yn y system. Bydd grant dysgu’r Cynulliad yn ein helpu i gyflawni hynny. Gallwn sôn am raglenni eraill, ond nid oes gennyf ddigon o amser.

Governments can make a difference. In the 20 years that the Tories were in power, child poverty tripled. We will work to abolish it, and we will succeed because child poverty is not just a social evil, it is a killer. I know that it can be done and that the Minister is committed to ensuring that, but it will not happen overnight. We have come a long way; we are on the second report now. Progress has been made, but this is a marathon and not a sprint. When we talk about what needs to be done, let us not forget the progress that we have made. Children, parents and families have been lifted from poverty. Despite what The Guardian said about the west ward of Rhyl—‘A town scarred by poverty’—there is a great deal of civic and community pride in that area, and I am happy to work with local people to promote it further.

Fe all llywodraethau wneud gwahaniaeth. Yn yr 20 mlynedd yr oedd y Torïaid mewn grym, fe dreblodd tlodi plant. Byddwn ni’n gweithio i’w ddileu, a byddwn yn llwyddo oherwydd nid drwg cymdeithasol yn unig yw tlodi plant, mae hefyd yn lladd. Gwn fod modd gwneud hynny a bod y Gweinidog wedi ymrwymo i sicrhau hynny, ond ni fydd yn digwydd dros nos. Yr ydym wedi mynd yn bell yn ein blaen; hwn yw’r ail adroddiad yn awr. Gwnaethpwyd cynnydd, ond marathon yw hwn, nid ras ar wib. Pan soniwn am yr hyn y mae angen ei wneud, gadewch inni beidio ag anghofio’r cynnydd a wnaethom. Mae plant, rhieni a theuluoedd wedi’u codi o dlodi. Er gwaethaf yr hyn a ddywedodd The Guardian am ward orllewinol y Rhyl—‘Tref a greithiwyd gan dlodi’—mae llawer iawn o falchder dinesig a chymunedol yn yr ardal honno, ac yr wyf yn falch o weithio gyda’r bobl leol i’w hybu ymhellach.

Peter Black spoken in English p. 90

Peter Black siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 90

This report—an important duty of the Assembly—is, to a large extent, groundbreaking in implementing and monitoring a cross-cutting commitment. As we come to the end of our third year in the Assembly, it strikes me how long it takes to effect change. We have achieved a great deal over the past three years, and those successes are reflected in this report. Many measures such as free prescriptions for under-25s, free local bus passes, and a raft of other measures will improve the quality of life of people in Wales. There is a long way to go and a great deal of work remains. The targets set out in this report effectively form the work programme for the National Assembly and its Government for the next decade, to try to improve the quality of life of the people of Wales. This report is important, not only in documenting what has been done, but as a programme for the future governance of Wales. That must be recognised.

Mae’r adroddiad hwn—un o ddyletswyddau pwysig y Cynulliad—yn un sydd, i raddau helaeth, yn torri tir newydd o ran gweithredu a monitro ymrwymiad trawsbynciol. A ninnau’n dod i ddiwedd ein trydedd flwyddyn yn y Cynulliad, yr hyn sy’n fy nharo i yw cymaint o amser y mae ei angen i gyflawni newid. Yr ydym wedi cyflawni llawer dros y tair blynedd diwethaf, ac adlewyrchir y llwyddiannau hynny yn yr adroddiad hwn. Bydd llawer o’r mesurau, fel y presgripsiynau am ddim i rai dan 25 mlwydd oed, tocynnau bysiau lleol am ddim, a llu o fesurau eraill yn gwella ansawdd bywyd pobl yng Nghymru. Mae ffordd hir o’n blaen a llawer iawn o waith yn ein haros. Y targedau a nodir yn yr adroddiad hwn, i bob pwrpas, yw rhaglen waith y Cynulliad Cenedlaethol a’i Lywodraeth am y degawd nesaf, i geisio gwella ansawdd bywyd pobl Cymru. Mae’r adroddiad hwn yn bwysig, nid yn unig o ran cofnodi’r hyn a wnaethpwyd, ond fel rhaglen ar gyfer llywodraethu Cymru yn y dyfodol. Rhaid sylweddoli hynny.

This annual report is a substantial improvement in how we have fulfilled this duty. We are committed to tackling the huge amount of deprivation throughout Wales, and it is being dealt with through the substantial investment in programmes such as Communities First, Objective 1, and programmes to deal with housing, health, transport, education, community safety and the environment, along with many others.

Mae’r adroddiad blynyddol hwn yn gryn welliant o ran y modd yr ydym wedi cyflawni’r ddyletswydd hon. Yr ydym wedi ymrwymo i fynd i’r afael â’r amddifadedd aruthrol ledled Cymru, ac fe wneir hynny drwy’r rhaglenni buddsoddi sylweddol fel Rhoi Cymunedau’n Gyntaf, Amcan 1, a’r rhaglenni i ymdrin â thai, iechyd, trafnidiaeth, addysg, diogelwch cymunedol a’r amgylchedd, ynghyd â llawer o rai eraill.

For me, the key issue in this report is how we measure the success of that investment. It is right to set targets and to report on our actions to meet them. As the process develops and we learn more about how our investment filters through to communities and improves the quality of people’s lives, we need to include in future reports verifiable measurements of how those targets are being achieved. That is the best way for us to measure the Assembly’s success. That should give us the evidence of what we already know instinctively—that the existence of the Assembly and of devolution is gradually improving the quality of people’s lives. It is not only doing that in terms of specific policies such as free bus travel and Assembly learning grants, but also in terms of improved health, better living conditions and increased prosperity.

Yn fy ngolwg i, y prif fater sy’n codi yn yr adroddiad hwn yw’r modd yr ydym yn mesur llwyddiant y buddsoddiad hwnnw. Mae’n iawn pennu targedau ac adrodd ar ein camau i’w cyrraedd. Wrth i’r broses ddatblygu ac wrth inni ddysgu mwy am y modd y mae’n buddsoddiad yn treiddio i’r cymunedau ac yn gwella ansawdd bywyd pobl, bydd angen inni gynnwys mesuriadau gwiriadwy mewn adroddiadau yn y dyfodol o’r modd y cyrhaeddir y targedau hynny. Dyna’r dull gorau inni fesur llwyddiant y Cynulliad. Dylai hynny roi tystiolaeth i ni o’r hyn a wyddom eisoes yn reddfol—bod bodolaeth y Cynulliad a datganoli yn graddol wella ansawdd bywydau pobl. Mae’n gwneud hynny nid yn unig yng nghyd-destun polisïau penodol fel teithio ar fysiau am ddim a grantiau dysgu’r Cynulliad, ond hefyd o ran gwell iechyd, gwell amodau byw a mwy o ffyniant.

John Marek The Deputy Presiding Officer spoken in English p. 91

John Marek Y Dirprwy Lywydd siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 91

Before I call the next speaker, I announce to Members that a delegation from the lower house of the Czech Republic is visiting us. They are seated in the public gallery and I welcome them formally on behalf of the National Assembly. [Applause.]

Cyn imi alw ar y siaradwr nesaf, cyhoeddaf i’r Aelodau fod dirprwyaeth o dŷ isaf y Weriniaeth Tsiec yn ymweld â ni. Maent yn eistedd yn yr oriel gyhoeddus ac fe’u croesawaf yn ffurfiol ar ran y Cynulliad Cenedlaethol. [Cymeradwyaeth.]

Peter Law spoken in English p. 92

Peter Law siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 92

I am pleased to have the opportunity to speak in this debate, as someone from Blaenau Gwent. Communities such as Blaenau Gwent, and other deprived areas, are often described as having a poverty of aspiration. I find that deeply insulting because, frankly, it is poverty of opportunity that has led to that poverty of aspiration. People living there have always been faced with a ‘that will do’ approach. ‘That will do’ will not do anymore, which is why I welcome this report. It says a great deal about the Assembly’s work. The Minister, as a good socialist, is committed to changing deprived areas.

Yr wyf yn falch o gael cyfle i siarad yn y ddadl hon, fel un o Flaenau Gwent. Dywedir yn aml am gymunedau fel Blaenau Gwent, ac ardaloedd difreintiedig eraill, fod ganddynt ddiffyg dyhead. Credaf fod hynny’n sarhaus iawn oherwydd, mewn gwirionedd, diffyg cyfle sydd wedi arwain at y diffyg dyhead hwnnw. Mae’r rhai sy’n byw yno wedi wynebu ymagwedd ‘gwnaiff hynny’r tro’ erioed. Ni thycia ‘gwnaiff hynny’r tro’ bellach, a dyna pam yr wyf yn croesawu’r adroddiad hwn. Mae’n dweud llawer iawn am waith y Cynulliad. Mae’r Gweinidog, fel sosialydd da, wedi ymwymo i newid ardaloedd difreintiedig.

Some good things have been achieved. We have heard about Communities First, the homeless and housing strategies, Objective 1, free bus travel and the important return of a passenger rail service to my community—Sue Essex has played a large part in that. The primary health care centres, and other important developments achieved by Jane Hutt, have improved healthcare provision in deprived areas. We need to remember that such things are being delivered. Plaid Cymru’s words are empty words because only Labour can deliver for the people of Wales and for the deprived areas. That is a fact of life. [ASSEMBLY MEMBERS: ‘What about the Liberal Democrats?’] We will put up with the add-ons for a while, and I will talk about them later. It is Labour that is delivering. Today, 53 wonderful pensioners from Beaufort are visiting the Assembly. You must remember that Blaenau Gwent voted ‘Yes’ in the referendum, and when you live in a deprived area, the Assembly is a temple of hope for the future. I am delighted that the pensioners are here today to see what is going on. You must live in deprivation to be able to understand the poverty around you. If you live in it, you will know that many are born to it, live in it throughout their lives and never get a chance to get away from it. That is what poverty and deprivation is all about. People in deprivation often do not know anything else. It breeds a fire in your soul.

Cyflawnwyd rhai pethau da. Clywsom am Rhoi Cymunedau’n Gyntaf, strategaethau’r digartref a thai, Amcan 1, teithio ar fysiau am ddim a’r ffaith bwysig bod gwasanaeth trenau teithwyr yn dod yn ôl i’m cymuned i—mae Sue Essex wedi chwarae rhan bwysig yn hynny. Mae’r canolfannau gofal iechyd sylfaenol, a’r datblygiadau pwysig eraill a gyflawnwyd gan Jane Hutt, wedi gwella’r ddarpariaeth gofal iechyd mewn ardaloedd difreintiedig. Rhaid inni gofio bod pethau o’r fath yn cael eu cyflawni. Geiriau gwag yw rhai Plaid Cymru oherwydd dim ond Llafur a all gyflawni dros bobl Cymru a’r ardaloedd difreintiedig. Un o ffeithiau bywyd yw honno. [AELODAU O’R CYNULLIAD: ‘Beth am y Democratiaid Rhyddfrydol?’] Goddefwn yr ychwanegion am y tro, ac fe soniaf amdanynt yn ddiweddarach. Llafur sy’n cyflawni pethau. Heddiw, mae 53 o bensiynwyr rhyfeddol o Gendl yn ymweld â’r Cynulliad. Rhaid ichi gofio bod Blaenau Gwent wedi pleidleisio ‘Ie’ yn y refferendwm, ac os ydych yn byw mewn ardal ddifreintiedig, mae’r Cynulliad yn deml gobaith ar gyfer y dyfodol. Yr wyf wrth fy modd bod y pensiynwyr yma heddiw i weld beth sy’n digwydd yma. Rhaid ichi fyw mewn amddifadedd i allu deall y tlodi o’ch cwmpas. Os ydych yn byw ynddo, fe wyddoch fod llawer wedi’u geni iddo, yn byw ynddo gydol eu hoes ac nad ydynt byth yn cael cyfle i ddianc rhagddo. Peth felly yw tlodi ac amddifadedd. Yn aml, ni ŵyr pobl sy’n byw mewn amddifadedd am ddim byd arall. Mae’n ennyn tân yn eich enaid.

David Lloyd a gododd—

David Lloyd rose—

Peter Law spoken in English p. 93

Peter Law siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 93

I will give way if I get more time.

Ildiaf os caf ragor o amser.

David Lloyd spoken in English p. 93

David Lloyd siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 93

I take it that you agree with your colleague, Huw Lewis, that more needs to be done on poverty?

Cymeraf eich bod yn cytuno â’ch cyd-Aelod, Huw Lewis, fod angen gwneud rhagor am dlodi?

Peter Law spoken in English p. 93

Peter Law siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 93

I was just coming to that point. You missed my comment on Tuesday on that matter, Dai. I said that I agreed with his comments.

Yr oeddwn yn dod at y pwynt hwnnw. Yr oeddech wedi methu fy sylw ddydd Mawrth ar y mater hwnnw, Dai. Dywedais fy mod yn cytuno â’i sylwadau.

If you live in such deprivation, it breeds a fire in your soul. You need to be able to express yourself so that you can change things for the future. The Assembly must make a difference. We want action, not warm words and sympathy. There is some of that about at times. My constituents were delighted with the £50 million for our community to deal with the Corus situation, until they saw that Members voted for £56 million for an opera house across the road from here. Then they started to wonder about our priorities. That is what people from deprived communities ask you: ‘What are the priorities?’ The money to deal with the Corus situation is dwarfed by projects such as the Wales Millennium Centre.

Os ydych yn byw yn y fath amddifadedd, mae’n ennyn tân yn eich enaid. Rhaid ichi allu’ch mynegi’ch hun fel y gallwch newid pethau at y dyfodol. Rhaid i’r Cynulliad wneud gwahaniaeth. Mae arnom angen gweithredu, nid geiriau caredig a chydymdeimlad. Mae rhywfaint o hynny o gwmpas ar brydiau. Yr oedd fy etholwyr wrth eu bodd â’r £50 miliwn i’n cymuned i ddelio â sefyllfa Corus, nes iddynt weld bod yr Aelodau wedi pleidleisio o blaid rhoi £56 miliwn at dŷ opera ar draws y ffordd oddi yma. Wedyn dechreuasant ddyfalu ynghylch ein blaenoriaethau. Dyna’r hyn y mae pobl mewn cymunedau difreintiedig yn ei ofyn i chi: ‘Beth yw’r blaenoriaethau?’ Mae’r arian i ddelio â sefyllfa Corus yn fach iawn o’i gymharu â phrosiectau fel Canolfan Mileniwm Cymru.

Asking for powers to abolish tuition fees is not a priority for me, bearing in mind the good work that Jane Davidson has done as our Minister for Education and Lifelong Learning with the Assembly learning grant. If we want extra powers, we must focus on getting powers to direct industry into communities where there are no jobs, and to provide enterprise zones and extra finance to deal with the deprivation and social exclusion that many experience throughout Wales.

Nid yw gofyn am bwerau i ddiddymu ffioedd hyfforddi’n flaenoriaeth gennyf fi, gan gofio’r gwaith da a wnaeth Jane Davidson fel ein Gweinidog dros Addysg a Dysgu Gydol Oes gyda grant dysgu’r Cynulliad. Os ydym am gael pwerau ychwanegol, rhaid inni ganolbwyntio ar gael pwerau i gyfeirio diwydiant i gymunedau lle nad oes swyddi, ac i ddarparu parthau menter ac arian ychwanegol i ddelio â’r amddifadedd a’r allgáu cymdeithasol y mae llawer yn eu profi ledled Cymru.

Phil Williams spoken in English p. 93

Phil Williams siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 93

Do you accept that an element of regional targeting, which was explicitly rejected by the Assembly Government yesterday, would be necessary to get industry into areas such as Blaenau Gwent, rather than concentrating on the M4 and A55 corridors?

A ydych yn derbyn y byddai angen elfen o dargedu rhanbarthol, a wrthodwyd yn bendant gan Lywodraeth y Cynulliad ddoe, i ddod â diwydiant i ardaloedd fel Blaenau Gwent, yn hytrach na chanolbwyntio ar goridorau’r M4 a’r A55?

Peter Law spoken in English p. 94

Peter Law siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 94

Although I was not at that meeting of the Economic Development Committee yesterday, that sounds like a sensible approach to me. When you come from a deprived area, which has the highest rate of unemployment and heart disease, and the lowest average wage in Britain—Barclays told us, none of the statutory bodies did—then it must be targeted. You must direct industry and ensure that dealing with people who live in such deprived conditions is a priority. The Liberal Democrats are not the same as the Labour Party and the trade union movement. Their values are not our values. That is why we should combat deprivation and exclusion. Economic stability is vital—everything cascades down from unemployment.

Er nad oeddwn yn y cyfarfod hwnnw o’r Pwyllgor Datblygu Economaidd ddoe, mae hynny’n swnio’n ddull gweithredu synhwyrol i mi. Os ydych yn dod o ardal ddifreintiedig, sydd â’r gyfradd uchaf o ddiweithdra a chlefyd y galon, a’r cyflog cyfartalog isaf ym Mhrydain—Barclays a ddywedodd hynny wrthym, nid un o’r cyrff statudol—yna rhaid ei thargedu. Rhaid ichi gyfeirio diwydiant a sicrhau bod delio â phobl sy’n byw o dan y fath amodau difreintiedig yn flaenoriaeth. Nid yw’r Democratiaid Rhyddfrydol yr un peth â’r Blaid Lafur a mudiad yr undebau llafur. Nid eu gwerthoedd hwy yw ein gwerthoedd ni. Dyna pam y dylem ymladd amddifadedd ac allgáu. Mae sefydlogrwydd economaidd yn hollbwysig—mae popeth yn deillio o ddiweithdra.

On Tuesday, David Davies, the extreme right-wing Conservative Party Member, made a disgraceful comment about Blaenau Gwent and Rhondda Cynon Taff. I was disgusted that no-one from the Conservative Party stood up to withdraw his comment, thus indicating that they supported his remark. That underlines the fact that the Conservatives are regarded by many as the political vermin of the National Assembly. That is probably being kind.

Ddydd Mawrth, gwnaeth David Davies, yr Aelod asgell dde eithafol o’r Blaid Geidwadol, sylw gwarthus am Flaenau Gwent a Rhondda Cynon Taf. Ffieiddiais at y ffaith na safodd neb o’r Blaid Geidwadol ar eu traed i dynnu ei sylw yn ôl, gan ddangos, felly, eu bod yn cefnogi ei eiriau. Mae hynny’n tanlinellu’r ffaith bod y Ceidwadwyr yn cael eu hystyried gan lawer yn wehilion gwleidyddol y Cynulliad Cenedlaethol. Caredigrwydd â hwy yw dweud hynny, yn ôl pob tebyg.

John Marek The Deputy Presiding Officer spoken in English p. 94

John Marek Y Dirprwy Lywydd siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 94

Order. I would like for you to rephrase that. We are polite to each other in this Chamber and you cannot call Members ‘political vermin’. Please find another suitable phrase.

Trefn. Byddai’n dda gennyf pe byddech yn aralleirio hynny. Yr ydym yn gwrtais wrth ein gilydd yn y Siambr hon ac ni chewch alw Aelodau’n ‘wehilion gwleidyddol’. Meddyliwch am ymadrodd addas arall, os gwelwch yn dda.

Peter Law spoken in English p. 94

Peter Law siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 94

I regret having to withdraw it, although the phrase may have been offensive to vermin. As I do not want to offend vermin, I will withdraw the remark. However, David Davies should never have made that comment on Tuesday afternoon. It was a disgrace and Members of his party should have distanced themselves from it.

Mae’n flin gennyf orfod ei dynnu’n ôl, er ei bod yn bosibl bod yr ymadrodd yn sarhau gwehilion. Gan nad wyf yn dymuno sarhau gwehilion, tynnaf y sylw’n ôl. Fodd bynnag, ni ddylai David Davies fod erioed wedi gwneud y sylw hwnnw brynhawn Mawrth. Yr oedd yn warthus a dylasai Aelodau’i blaid fod wedi ymbellhau oddi wrtho.

David Davies spoken in English p. 94

David Davies siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 94

Has the Member read the foreword written by Ron Davies, the former Secretary of State for Wales, to a local government White Paper, published several years ago? In that foreword, he basically accepted that there was a serious problem with some councils in south Wales, where people had been in for far too long—decades even—and there was a serious problem with corruption and other unsavoury practices. Has the Member read that document and does he accept that there is an issue?

A yw’r Aelod wedi darllen y rhagair a ysgrifennwyd gan Ron Davies, cyn Ysgrifennydd Gwladol Cymru, i Bapur Gwyn ar lywodraeth leol, a gyhoeddwyd rai blynyddoedd yn ôl? Yn y rhagair hwnnw, yr oedd yn derbyn, yn y bôn, fod problem ddifrifol ynghylch rhai cynghorau yn y De, y bu rhai’n aelodau ohonynt yn llawer rhy hir—degawdau hyd yn oed—a bod problem ddifrifol ynghylch llygredd ac arferion annymunol eraill. A yw’r Aelod wedi darllen y ddogfen honno ac a yw’n derbyn bod y mater hwnnw’n codi?

Peter Law spoken in English p. 95

Peter Law siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 95

There is nothing to be proud of in attacking parties that cannot defend themselves. You disgraced yourself and the Assembly through your comments on Tuesday, and I think that that is the general opinion.

Nid peth i ymfalchïo ynddo yw ymosod ar rai na allant eu hamddiffyn eu hunain. Codasoch gywilydd arnoch eich hun a’r Cynulliad drwy’ch sylwadau ddydd Mawrth, a chredaf mai honno yw’r farn gyffredinol.

If we are serious about dealing with poverty and deprivation, we must be prepared to attack the problem and show people that we care. The generations of today and tomorrow, trapped in this type of exclusion, are depending on the National Assembly. That is why I welcome the report and thank the Ministers of this Labour-led Government for their work. We are tackling the problem, but more needs to be done.

Os ydym o ddifrif ynghylch delio â thlodi ac amddifadedd, rhaid inni fod yn barod i ymosod ar y broblem a dangos i bobl ein bod yn poeni. Mae cenedlaethau heddiw ac yfory, sydd wedi’u dal gan allgáu o’r fath, yn dibynnu ar y Cynulliad Cenedlaethol. Dyna pam yr wyf yn croesawu’r adroddiad ac yn diolch i Weinidogion y Llywodraeth hon dan arweiniad Llafur am eu gwaith. Yr ydym yn mynd i’r afael â’r broblem, ond rhaid gwneud rhagor.

Rhodri Glyn Thomas siaradwyd yn Gymraeg t. 95

Rhodri Glyn Thomas spoken in Welsh p. 95

Soniodd David Melding am bwysigrwydd datblygu consensws ar fater fel hyn gan fod gan bawb ohonom fuddiannau etholaethol a gwleidyddol mewn cynhwysiant cymdeithasol. Mae’n amlwg bod rhywfaint o gonsensws wedi datblygu yn ystod y ddadl hon. Nid yn aml yr anghytunaf â Peter Law, ond yr oedd ei gyfeiriad at Blaid Cymru yn anffodus. Awgrymodd nad oes gan gynghorau Rhondda Cynon Taf, Caerffili a Gwynedd gyfraniad i’w wneud yn y gwaith o ymladd tlodi a sicrhau cynhwysiant cymdeithasol yng Nghymru. Gobeithiaf y bydd yn ailystyried y pwynt hwnnw, oherwydd y gobaith yw y gall pawb ohonom gydweithio ar y materion hyn gan fod cytundeb barn ac ymrwymiad i wneud rhywbeth am y sefyllfa.

David Melding mentioned the importance of developing a consensus of opinion on a matter such as this, because we all have constituency and political interests in social inclusion. It is evident that a certain degree of consensus has developed during this debate. It is not often that I disagree with Peter Law, but his reference to Plaid Cymru was unfortunate. He suggested that the councils of Rhondda Cynon Taff, Caerphilly and Gwynedd do not have a part to play in the struggle against poverty and ensuring social inclusion in Wales. I hope that he will reconsider those remarks, because I am hopeful that we can all work together on these matters, as there is a consensus of opinion and a commitment to tackle the situation.

Peter Law spoken in English p. 95

Peter Law siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 95

I am sorry if there was a misapprehension; I will clarify what I said. I was talking about Janet’s contribution, in which she compared Wales with other parts of Britain and referred to targets that have not been met. To be fair, I want to identify with the people of Rhondda Cynon Taff, Caerphilly and other places, such as Merthyr Tydfil, where there is terrible deprivation. There are many other places with pockets of deprivation. I do not want to give the wrong impression; my point is that all parties should work together to try to combat these problems. When I said that only Labour could deliver, I meant that only it could deliver the political support.

Mae’n ddrwg gennyf os oedd camddealltwriaeth; egluraf yr hyn a ddywedais. Yr oeddwn yn sôn am gyfraniad Janet, pan gymharodd Gymru â rhannau eraill o Brydain a chyfeirio at dargedau nas cyrhaeddwyd. A bod yn deg, yr wyf yn dymuno ymuniaethu â phobl Rhondda Cynon Taf, Caerffili a mannau eraill, fel Merthyr Tudful, lle y mae amddifadedd ofnadwy. Mae llawer o leoedd eraill sydd â llecynnau o amddifadedd. Nid wyf am roi camargraff; y pwynt sydd gennyf yw y dylai’r holl bleidiau gydweithio i geisio ymladd y problemau hyn. Pan ddywedais mai dim ond Llafur a allai gyflawni pethau, yr oeddwn yn meddwl mai dim ond hi a allai roi’r gefnogaeth wleidyddol.

Rhodri Glyn Thomas siaradwyd yn Gymraeg t. 96

Rhodri Glyn Thomas spoken in Welsh p. 96

Diolch am hynny, Peter. Gan ein bod yn tueddu cytuno ar y mater hwn, tybiais y byddem y tro hwn.

Thank you for that, Peter. As we tend to agree on this matter, I suspected that we would this time.

Mae cwestiwn yn codi ynglŷn â’r ffordd y mae Cynulliad Cenedlaethol Cymru bellach yn gweithredu. Mae newid gwleidyddol wedi digwydd, ac ymddengys i mi fod y Llywodraeth glymblaid yn penderfynu cyn dadleuon wrthod unrhyw welliannau a gynigir gan y gwrthbleidiau, hyd yn oed pan y gallai’r gwelliannau hynny gryfhau ac ategu’r hyn y mae’n ceisio’i chyflawni. Gwelsom hynny heddiw fwy nag unwaith. Pan nad oedd gan y Llywodraeth fwyafrif, yr oedd yn rhaid trafod a bod yn gynhwysol. Felly apeliaf ar y Llywodraeth glymblaid i fod yn fwy cynhwysol ac i werthfawrogi y gall y gwrthbleidiau wneud cyfraniad cadarnhaol ac adeiladol, ynghyd ag ysgwyddo’u cyfrifoldeb i graffu’n fanwl ar waith y Llywodraeth.

There is a question about the way in which the National Assembly for Wales now operates. There has been a political change, and it seems to me that the coalition Government decides in advance of debates to reject any amendments proposed by the opposition parties, even when those amendments could reinforce the Government’s objectives. We have seen that happen on more than one occasion today. When the Assembly was governed by a minority party, discussion and inclusivity were always necessary. Therefore, I appeal to the Government to be more inclusive, and to appreciate that opposition parties can make a positive and constructive contribution as well as carrying out their role in scrutinising the Government’s work in detail.

Yr wyf yn falch fod y Gweinidog wedi ymateb yn gadarnhaol i’n gwelliannau. Er na fydd yn eu cefnogi, dywedodd y bydd yn trafod y gwelliannau yn y Pwyllgor. Mae gennyf edmygedd mawr o’r Gweinidog ac yr wyf yn siŵr y bydd yn cadw at ei gair. Serch hynny, fel y dywedodd Jocelyn Davies, hoffwn gadarnhad y bydd hynny’n digwydd. Yr oedd sôn, pan sefydlwyd y Cynulliad Cenedlaethol, y byddai math gwahanol o wleidyddiaeth yn datblygu. Mae pobl Cymru yn dal i ddisgwyl hynny—maent yn disgwyl inni fod yn gynhwysol ac i fynd i’r afael â’u problemau.

I am pleased that the Minister has responded positively to our amendments. Although she will not support them, she has said that she will bring them back to Committee for discussion. I hold the Minister in high esteem and I am sure that she will keep her word. However, as Jocelyn Davies said, we would like confirmation that that will happen. When the National Assembly was established, there were hopes that a different kind of politics would develop. The people of Wales are still waiting for that—they expect us to be inclusive and to get to grips with their problems

Mae pedwar dyffryn yn fy etholaeth i. Yn y Gymraeg, mae gwahaniaeth daearegol a daearyddol rhwng ‘cwm’ a ‘dyffryn’. Yr wyf yn siŵr y byddai Gareth Jones yn falch o’r cyfle i esbonio’r gwahaniaeth hwnnw i’r Cynulliad pe bai angen. Mae’r pedwar dyffryn yn fy etholaeth yn wahanol iawn. Mae rhannau o Ddyffryn Aman a Dyffryn Gwendraeth mewn etholaethau eraill. Gwelir y problemau y soniodd Peter amdanynt yn y dyffrynnoedd hynny. Mae teimlad ymysg trigolion Dyffryn Aman a Dyffryn Gwendraeth eu bod yn ddyffrynnoedd yr anghofiwyd amdanynt ac nad yw dyffrynnoedd y Gorllewin yn cyfrif pan fyddwn yn sôn am dlodi. Ond mae yr un problemau yn ymwneud â diweithdra a chyfleoedd i bobl ifanc yno ag a geir mewn mannau eraill o Gymru. Dim ond un gwaith glo sydd ar ôl yno—gwaith glo y Betws—sy’n cyflogi 300 o bobl, ond bu i hwnnw bron â chau ychydig o flynyddoedd yn ôl. Mae’r hen safleoedd gweithgynhyrchu wedi diflannu i raddau helaeth. Mae’r ffaith bod cwmnïau yn symud i’r cwm yn newyddion da, ond mae gennym broblemau difrifol. Byddwn yn gwneud yr un ple ar ran y dyffrynnoedd gwledig yn fy etholaeth: dyffrynnoedd Teifi a Thywi. Mae tlodi cudd yn y dyffrynnoedd hynny—ffaith nad yw’n cael ei chydnabod bob amser.

There are four valleys in my constituency. In Welsh, there is a geological and geographical difference between a ‘cwm’ and a ‘dyffryn’. I am sure that Gareth Jones would jump at the chance to explain that difference to the Assembly, if necessary. The four valleys in my constituency are very different. Parts of the Amman and Gwendraeth Valleys lie within other constituencies. The problems that Peter mentioned are also experienced in these valleys. There people of the Amman and Gwendraeth Valleys feel forgotten and that the valleys of west Wales are ignored when we discuss poverty. But they face the same problems of unemployment and lack of opportunities for young people as other parts of Wales. Only one coal mine, employing 300 people, remains—the Betws coal mine—but it too was threatened with closure a few years ago. The old manufacturing works have disappeared to a great extent. The fact that companies are moving into the valley is good news, but we have serious problems. I would make the same plea on behalf of the rural valleys in my constituency: the Teifi and Tywi Valleys. There is a hidden poverty in those valleys—a fact that is not always appreciated.

A yw’r Gweinidog yn hapus â’r math o ddangosyddion yr ydym yn eu defnyddio i gydnabod tlodi a’r angen am gynhwysiant cymdeithasol? A yw’n argyhoeddedig bod y dangosyddion hyn yn rhoi’r sylw dyladwy i’r ardaloedd hynny? A oes angen inni ystyried sut yr ydym yn casglu data o ran ardaloedd gwledig?

Is the Minister happy with the sort of indicators that we use to identify poverty and the need for social inclusion? Is she satisfied that these indicators afford due consideration to those areas? Do we need to consider how data is collected in relation to rural areas?

Alison Halford spoken in English p. 97

Alison Halford siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 97

I do not wish to be mean or spiteful, but although you agree that there are serious problems in your area, that did not stop you from voting £104 million for the Wales Millennium Centre. That might be food for thought.

Nid wyf yn dymuno bod yn grintachlyd neu’n faleisus, ond er eich bod yn cytuno bod problemau difrifol yn eich ardal, ni wnaeth hynny’ch atal rhag pleidleisio i roi £104 miliwn at Ganolfan Mileniwm Cymru. Gallech gnoi cil ar hynny.

Rhodri Glyn Thomas spoken in Welsh and English p. 97

Rhodri Glyn Thomas siaradwyd yn Gymraeg ac yn Saesneg t. 97

I certainly voted for that and for the £2 million extra for the arts throughout Wales, and I hope that part of that will come to my constituency. We must be careful—I made this point during the debate on the Wales Millennium Centre—that we do not make the mistake of believing that people who are on low wages or facing poverty have no interest in culture. Historically, in Wales, those people ensured that culture was promoted. They have the same interest in culture as people who earn far higher sums and they have as much a right to a millennium centre in Cardiff for the whole of Wales as other people.

yn Saesneg Fe bleidleisiais dros hynny, yn sicr, a thros y £2 filiwn ychwanegol i’r celfyddydau ledled Cymru, a gobeithiaf y daw rhan o hynny i’m hetholaeth i. Rhaid inni fod yn ofalus—gwneuthum y pwynt hwn yn ystod y ddadl ar Ganolfan Mileniwm Cymru—nad ydym yn gwneud y camgymeriad o gredu nad yw pobl sydd ar dâl isel neu’n wynebu tlodi yn ymddiddori mewn diwylliant. Yn hanesyddol, yng Nghymru, y bobl hynny a sicrhaodd fod diwylliant yn cael ei hyrwyddo. Maent yn ymddiddori mewn diwylliant i’r un graddau â rhai sy’n ennill symiau mwy o lawer ac mae ganddynt yr un hawl â phobl eraill i gael canolfan mileniwm yng Nghymru i Gymru gyfan.

Dof yn ôl at bwynt a wnaed gan sawl Aelod ynglŷn â phobl ifanc: Weinidog, a oes angen inni fod yn fwy cynhwysol ar sut yr ydym yn cynnwys pobl ifanc yn ein penderfyniadau? O siarad â grwpiau o bobl ifanc yn fy etholaeth a thrwy Gymru, teimlaf eu bod yn credu mai pobl eraill sy’n gwneud y penderfyniadau ar gynhwysiant cymdeithasol ac yr hoffent fod yn rhan o’r broses o benderfynu sut y gellid eu cynnwys yn gymdeithasol. Nid canolfan hamdden mewn tref yw’r ateb bob amser; mae gan bobl ifanc syniadau blaengar yn y maes hwn.

in Welsh I return to a point made by several Members about young people: Minister, do we need to be more inclusive of young people in our decision-making process? Having spoken to groups of young people in my constituency and throughout Wales, I feel that they believe that decisions on social inclusion are made by others and that they would like to play a part in the process of deciding how they could be socially included. A leisure centre in a town is not always the answer; young people have innovative ideas in this area.

Cyfeiriaf hefyd at un grŵp arbennig—

in Welsh I refer also to a specific group—

John Marek The Deputy Presiding Officer spoken in English p. 98

John Marek Y Dirprwy Lywydd siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 98

Order. Rhodri, wind up now.

Trefn. Rhodri, tynnwch at y terfyn yn awr.

Rhodri Glyn Thomas siaradwyd yn Gymraeg ac yn Saesneg t. 98

Rhodri Glyn Thomas spoken in Welsh and English p. 98

A gaf eiliad? Mae’n bwynt pwysig ynglŷn â Chymorth i Fenywod—[Torri ar draws.]

in Welsh May I have a second? It is an important point about Women’s Aid—[Interruption.]

I think that Peter Law wants to declare an interest in Women’s Aid.

yn Saesneg Credaf fod Peter Law yn dymuno datgan buddiant mewn Cymorth i Fenywod.

Penderfynodd y Pwyllgor, wedi trafodaethau gyda Gofal a Thrwsio Cymru, ei fod am sicrhau cyllid i alluogi’r corff hwnnw i weithredu drwy Gymru. Weinidog, a oes modd ichi sicrhau bod Cymorth i Fenywod, sydd yn fudiad eithriadol o bwysig, yn derbyn cyllid tebyg?

in Welsh The Committee, following discussions with Care and Repair Wales, decided that it wanted to ensure funding to enable that body to operate throughout Wales. Minister, can you ensure that Women’s Aid, which is an exceptionally important movement, receives the same kind of funding?

Brian Gibbons spoken in English p. 98

Brian Gibbons siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 98

Like Peter Law and Ann Jones, I joined the Labour Party and labour movement to get a fairer deal for working people and to tackle inequality, disadvantage and discrimination in our society. That is why I welcome this second report, because it shows the wide range of the work that is in hand and the serious progress being made in tackling inequality and securing social justice in Wales. The size of the problem is indicated by the size of the report and its comprehensive nature.

Fel Peter Law ac Ann Jones, ymunais innau â’r Blaid Lafur a’r mudiad llafur er mwyn cael bargen decach i weithwyr ac i fynd i’r afael ag anghydraddoldeb, anfantais a gwahaniaethu yn ein cymdeithas. Dyna pam y croesawaf yr ail adroddiad hwn, am ei fod yn dangos yr amrywiaeth eang o waith sydd ar y gweill a’r cynnydd sylweddol a wneir wrth fynd i’r afael ag anghydraddoldeb a sicrhau cyfiawnder cymdeithasol yng Nghymru. Dangosir maint y broblem gan faint yr adroddiad a’i natur gynhwysfawr.

The opportunity to work is central to all strategies to tackle social and economic exclusion. It is extraordinary that under the Welsh Labour-led administration and the UK Government, working with the National Assembly, unemployment in Wales is now at 3.7 per cent. That is 7 per cent down on this time last year. That is despite the foot and mouth disease crisis, the collapse of the dot com companies, the strength of the pound and the problems that the Corus steel company faced. That is a remarkable achievement. It is even more remarkable because the most stringent criteria, those of the International Labour Organisation, show that unemployment is down by 12 per cent. In Wales we have the second highest regional reduction in unemployment in the United Kingdom, which is an exceptional outcome. At the same time, the level of job vacancies in Wales continues to increase. However, as well as addressing the challenges of the economy, we must also address the issue of public services, because we know that they are crucial for tackling social and economic disadvantage. Between 1997 and the end of the next financial year—or since Labour came to power—the Welsh block expenditure will have increased by 55 per cent. That is a massive increase by anybody’s standards. I challenge Plaid Cymru, in particular, after hearing what it has said, to tell us how much more than this 55 per cent increase in public expenditure it would be willing to spend.

Mae’r cyfle i weithio’n rhan ganolog o bob strategaeth i fynd i’r afael ag allgáu cymdeithasol ac economaidd. Mae’n rhyfeddol bod diweithdra yng Nghymru, o dan y weinyddiaeth a arweinr gan Lafur Cymru a Llywodraeth y DU, sy’n gweithio gyda’r Cynulliad Cenedlaethol, bellach yn 3.7 y cant. Mae hynny’n 7 y cant yn is na’r adeg hon y llynedd. Mae hynny er gwaethaf argyfwng clwy’r traed a’r genau, cwymp y cwmnïau dot com, cryfder y bunt a’r problemau a wynebodd cwmni dur Corus. Mae hynny’n gamp ryfeddol. Mae’n hynotach byth am fod y meini prawf tynnaf, rhai’r Corff Llafur Rhyngwladol, yn dangos bod diweithdra yn 12 y cant yn is. Yng Nghymru cawsom y gostyngiad rhanbarthol ail uchaf mewn diweithdra yn y Deyrnas Unedig, sy’n ganlyniad eithriadol. Ar yr un pryd, mae nifer y swyddi gwag yng Nghymru’n dal i godi. Er hynny, yn ogystal â wynebu heriau’r economi, rhaid inni hefyd ymdrin â mater y gwasanaethau cyhoeddus, oherwydd gwyddom eu bod yn hollbwysig wrth fynd i’r afael ag anfantais gymdeithasol ac economaidd. Rhwng 1997 a diwedd y flwyddyn ariannol nesaf—neu ers i Lafur ddod i rym—bydd gwariant bloc Cymru wedi codi o 55 y cant. Mae hynny’n gynnydd aruthrol yn ôl unrhyw ffon fesur. Heriaf Blaid Cymru, yn benodol, ar ôl clywed yr hyn a ddywedodd, i ddweud wrthym faint yn rhagor na’r cynnydd hwn o 55 y cant mewn gwariant cyhoeddus y byddai’n fodlon ei wario.

Phil Williams spoken in English p. 99

Phil Williams siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 99

Do you accept, Brian, that that 55 per cent increase includes the new element of an accrual budget which adds well over £1 billion to the budget without contributing a single penny, so the increase, in real terms, is much less?

A ydych yn derbyn, Brian, fod y cynnydd hwnnw o 55 y cant yn cynnwys elfen newydd y gyllideb twf sy’n ychwanegu ymhell dros £1 biliwn at y gyllideb heb gyfrannu’r un geiniog, fel bod y cynnydd, mewn gwirionedd, yn is o lawer?

Brian Gibbons spoken in English p. 99

Brian Gibbons siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 99

I do not accept that.

Nid wyf yn derbyn hynny.

Rhodri Glyn Thomas spoken in English p. 99

Rhodri Glyn Thomas siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 99

Just think about it first.

Meddyliwch amdano’n gyntaf.

John Marek The Deputy Presiding Officer spoken in English p. 99

John Marek Y Dirprwy Lywydd siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 99

Order.

Trefn.

Brian Gibbons spoken in English p. 99

Brian Gibbons siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 99

This is real money and the challenge to Plaid Cymru stands: how much more would it have spent? No Assembly Plenary session goes by without around £100 million extra spending commitments being announced. Before long, Plaid Cymru will be saying that 120 per cent of our gross domestic product should go on public spending.

Arian gwirioneddol yw hwn ac mae’r her i Blaid Cymru’n aros: faint yn rhagor y byddai wedi’i wario? Nid yw yr un Cyfarfod Llawn yn y Cynulliad yn mynd heibio heb gyhoeddi tua £100 miliwn o ymrwymiadau gwario ychwanegol. Cyn hir, bydd Plaid Cymru’n dweud y dylai 120 y cant o’n cynnyrch mewnwladol crynswth fynd at wario cyhoeddus.

Gareth Jones siaradwyd yn Gymraeg t. 100

Gareth Jones spoken in Welsh p. 100

Yr ydych yn sôn am y symiau anferth hyn, ond mae’n amlwg nad yw eich cyfaill, Huw Lewis, yn cytuno â chi. Nid ydych yn gwario chwarter digon.

You refer to these enormous sums, but it is obvious that your colleague, Huw Lewis, does not agree with you. You are not spending nearly enough.

Brian Gibbons spoken in English p. 100

Brian Gibbons siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 100

Huw Lewis is clear on this: he is fed up of the showboating, ridiculous points of order, and spurious political opportunism of the opposition parties, who should allow the Welsh Assembly Government to get on with the problem of tackling social and economic deprivation, and securing social justice in Wales. If people read the article, they will find that that is precisely what he said.

Mae Huw Lewis yn bendant ar hyn: mae wedi cael llond bol ar bwyntiau o drefn chwerthinllyd, theatraidd, a manteisiaeth wleidyddol ffug pleidiau’r wrthblaid, a ddylai adael i Lywodraeth Cynulliad Cymru fynd ymlaen i drafod y broblem o fynd i’r afael ag amddifadedd cymdeithasol ac economaidd, a sicrhau cyfiawnder cymdeithasol yng Nghymru. Pe byddai pobl yn darllen yr erthygl, fe welent mai dyna’n union a ddywedodd.

Moving on, this is not just about the amount of money spent in Wales, but where it is targeted. Many other speakers have highlighted the areas of greatest social and economic need at which this money is being targeted. It is a massive exercise in the redistribution of resources and opportunity in Wales, and will only be delivered by a Labour Government in Westminster and a Welsh Labour-led administration in Wales.

Gan symud ymlaen, mae hyn yn ymwneud nid yn unig â’r swm o arian a gaiff ei wario yng Nghymru, ond â lle y caiff ei dargedu. Mae llawer o’r siaradwyr eraill wedi tynnu sylw at yr ardaloedd lle y mae’r angen cymdeithasol ac economaidd mwyaf y targedir yr arian hwn arnynt. Mae’n ymarfer anferth o ran ailddosbarthu adnoddau a chyfleoedd yng Nghymru, ac ni chyflawnir ef ond gan Lywodraeth Lafur yn San Steffan a gweinyddiaeth dan arweiniad Llafur Cymru yng Nghymru.

Brian Hancock spoken in English p. 100

Brian Hancock siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 100

You mention targeting; I presume that you agree that targeting jobs for economic development is also important.

Yr ydych yn sôn am dargedu; yr wyf yn cymryd eich bod yn cytuno bod targedu swyddi er mwyn datblygu economaidd yn bwysig hefyd.

Brian Gibbons spoken in English p. 100

Brian Gibbons siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 100

Yes. Our instructions to the WDA stated that it must concentrate on encouraging development in the Objective 1 area. That is a target for the WDA and precisely what we are trying to deliver, and that is why we have identified the Communities First area, and the administration’s first priority is to address the social and economic problems in that area. This is not about spatial targeting; it is about targeting the areas where social and economic need is greatest.

Ydwyf. Yr oedd ein cyfarwyddiadau i’r WDA yn datgan bod yn rhaid iddo ganolbwyntio ar hybu datblygu yn ardal Amcan 1. Mae hynny’n darged i’r WDA a dyna’n union yr hyn yr ydym yn ceisio’i gyflawni, a dyna pam yr ydym wedi dynodi’r ardal Rhoi Cymunedau’n Gyntaf, a blaenoriaeth uchaf y weinyddiaeth yw rhoi sylw i’r problemau cymdeithasol ac economaidd yn yr ardal honno. Nid oes a wnelo hyn â thargedu gofodol; mae’n ymwneud â thargedu’r ardaloedd lle y mae’r angen cymdeithasol ac economaidd mwyaf.

However, I am concerned about one issue that arose earlier in the week, and of which there was no reference in the social and economic report, namely, council tax. It is an outrage that the poorest communities in Wales should face the highest rates of council tax. It is outrageous that my constituents in Briton Ferry West, and areas such as Sandfields in the upper Afan valley should be paying a higher rate of council tax than the residents of Lisvane or Cyncoed in Cardiff, or Mayals in Swansea, for example. It is wrong that these people should have to spend between 5 and 15 per cent more in council tax, particularly when the joint reviews, Her Majesty’s Inspector’s report, and the best value indicators, show that these local authorities, by and large, perform as well as the local authorities that have the lowest council tax in Wales. The councils that underperform are often the councils that are not spending the money to meet the need in their own communities.

Fodd bynnag, yr wyf yn bryderus ynghylch un mater a gododd yn yr wythnos, ac nad oedd cyfeiriad ato yn yr adroddiad cymdeithasol ac economaidd, sef y dreth gyngor. Mae’n warthus bod y cymunedau tlotaf yng Nghymru’n wynebu’r cyfraddau uchaf o’r dreth gyngor. Mae’n warthus bod fy etholwyr i yng Ngorllewin Llansawel, ac ardaloedd fel Sandfields yng nghwm Afan uchaf yn talu cyfradd uwch o’r dreth gyngor na thrigolion Llys-faen neu Gyncoed yng Nghaerdydd, neu Mayals yn Abertawe, er enghraifft. Nid yw’n iawn bod y bobl hyn yn gorfod gwario rhwng 5 a 15 y cant yn fwy ar y dreth gyngor, yn enwedig gan fod yr adolygiadau ar y cyd, adroddiad Arolygydd Ei Mawrhydi, a’r dangosyddion gwerth gorau, yn dangos bod yr awdurdodau lleol hyn, at ei gilydd, yn perfformio cystal â’r awdurdodau lleol sydd â’r dreth gyngor isaf yng Nghymru. Yn aml, y cynghorau sy’n tanberfformio yw’r rhai nad ydynt yn gwario’r arian i ddiwallu’r angen yn eu cymunedau eu hunain.

David Davies spoken in English p. 101

David Davies siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 101

Does the Member blame the Labour-run councils for these increases or the Labour-run Assembly?

A yw’r Aelod yn rhoi’r bai ar y cynghorau sy’n cael eu rhedeg gan Lafur am y codiadau hyn neu’r Cynulliad sy’n cael ei redeg gan Lafur?

Brian Gibbons spoken in English p. 101

Brian Gibbons siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 101

I blame the social and economic needs that these communities face, which we are unable to address because of the fiasco we have inherited from the poll tax formula. Hopefully, when we return to this subject in the third report, we will see that progress is being made on addressing that issue. I have attended many meetings in my constituency in the last month on issues such as the Communities First programme, and how we will address those communities’ problems when they have such high council tax rates is continually raised. If we are going to tackle social exclusion in our own communities, they must have an equitable council tax payment deal.

Yr wyf yn rhoi’r bai ar yr anghenion cymdeithasol ac economaidd y mae’r cymunedau hyn yn eu hwynebu, nad ydym yn gallu ymdrin â hwy oherwydd y llanastr a etifeddasom o’r fformiwla treth y pen. Yr wyf yn gobeithio, pan ddeuwn yn ôl at y mater hwn yn y trydydd adroddiad, y gwelwn fod cynnydd yn digwydd wrth roi sylw i’r mater hwnnw. Bûm mewn llawer o gyfarfodydd yn fy etholaeth yn y mis diwethaf ar faterion fel y rhaglen Rhoi Cymunedau’n Gyntaf, ac mae’r modd y byddwn yn ymdrin â phroblemau’r cymunedau hynny, a’u cyfraddau treth gyngor mor uchel, yn fater a godir o hyd. Os ydym i fynd i’r afael ag allgáu cymdeithasol yn ein cymunedau ein hunain, rhaid iddynt gael bargen deg o ran talu’r dreth gyngor.

John Griffiths spoken in English p. 101

John Griffiths siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 101

I welcome this report and congratulate Edwina on her commitment to social inclusion in Wales, which is beyond question. I will mention a few developments in Newport regarding this issue. The Communities First programme is of real benefit on the Ringland council estate in Newport. Tackling social exclusion is about pump priming and using money as a catalyst, and £65 million of funding over three years is a substantial amount of money. Community capacity is vital in Newport to regenerate our communities. Happily, in Ringland, there are a handful of committed residents on the council estate who are determined to improve the quality of life there. They know that Communities First is offering them real opportunities to take that agenda forward. They have already achieved much: they have improved the shopping centre environment and established, what they call, a chill-out zone for young people to visit, which is popular, they organise various sporting activities and have great plans to expand and develop. That bottom-up approach seems to work well. The local police are very supportive and already substantial reductions in crime and disorder have been noted. Those are achievements that the people in the area recognise are improving their quality of life. Tackling social exclusion must be about partnership, as Edwina said. It must be about local people working with the voluntary sector, local authorities and business. If that can be achieved, as it is being achieved in Ringland, great things can come from it.

Croesawaf yr adroddiad hwn a llongyfarchaf Edwina ar ei hymroddiad i gynhwysiant cymdeithasol yng Nghymru, sydd y tu hwnt i amheuaeth. Soniaf am ychydig o ddatblygiadau yng Nghasnewydd mewn cysylltiad â’r mater hwn. Mae’r rhaglen Rhoi Cymunedau’n Gyntaf o fudd gwirioneddol ar stad tai cyngor Ringland yng Nghasnewydd. Mae delio ag allgáu cymdeithasol yn golygu sbarduno a defnyddio arian fel catalydd, ac mae £65 miliwn o arian dros dair blynedd yn swm sylweddol. Mae potensial cymunedol yn hollbwysig yng Nghasnewydd er mwyn adfywio ein cymunedau. Yn ffodus, yn Ringland, mae llond llaw o drigolion ymroddedig ar y stad tai cyngor sy’n benderfynol o wella’r ansawdd bywyd yno. Gwyddant fod Rhoi Cymunedau’n Gyntaf yn cynnig cyfleoedd gwirioneddol iddynt fwrw ymlaen â’r agenda honno. Maent wedi cyflawni llawer eisoes: maent wedi gwella amgylchedd y ganolfan siopa ac wedi sefydlu’r hyn a alwant yn ‘chill-out zone’ y gall pobl ifanc ymweld ag ef, sy’n boblogaidd; maent yn trefnu amryw o weithgareddau chwaraeon ac mae ganddynt gynlluniau rhagorol i ehangu a datblygu. Ymddengys fod y dull gweithredu o’r gwaelod i fyny’n gweithio’n dda. Mae’r heddlu lleol yn gefnogol iawn a nodwyd gostyngiadau mawr mewn troseddu ac anhrefn eisoes. Cyflawniadau yw’r rhain y mae pobl yn yr ardal yn cydnabod eu bod yn gwella ansawdd eu bywyd. O reidrwydd, mae delio ag allgáu cymdeithasol yn golygu partneriaeth, fel y dywedodd Edwina. Rhaid iddo olygu gwaith gan bobl leol gyda’r sector gwirfoddol, yr awdurdodau lleol a busnes. Os gellir cyflawni hynny, fel y gwneir yn Ringland, gall pethau mawr ddeillio ohono.

In Newport also, Communities First allows for the development of a project for ethnic minorities across the city. We all know that ethnic minority communities often face the difficulties that people in deprived communities across Wales face. However, they have the added difficulty of coping with prejudice and discrimination. Therefore, it is important that these schemes are taken forward because those communities face an extra level of problems.

Yng Nghasnewydd hefyd, mae Rhoi Cymunedau’n Gyntaf yn cynnig modd i ddatblygu prosiect i’r lleiafrifoedd ethnig ym mhob cwr o’r ddinas. Mae pawb ohonom yn gwybod bod cymunedau lleiafrifoedd ethnig yn aml yn wynebu’r un anawsterau â phobl mewn cymunedau difreintiedig ledled Cymru. Fodd bynnag, mae ganddynt anhawster ychwanegol hefyd o ymdopi â rhagfarn a gwahaniaethu. Felly, mae’n bwysig bwrw ymlaen â’r cynlluniau hyn oherwydd bod y cymunedau hynny’n wynebu problemau ychwanegol.

Jobs are key, as Brian mentioned earlier. No-one can doubt the Assembly’s commitment to tackling crises when they occur. That is evident from the £92 million package given in response to the Corus difficulties—an impressive response in terms of getting the various agencies to collaborate. The five local authorities in south-east Wales, for example, have pioneered an approach that shows that local authorities in Wales will work together when they are given a strong lead and when they can see the real advantage of collaboration. Jobs are vital and this response is taking forward a programme in terms of urban regeneration companies in Newport, the rail-link development at Ebbw Vale, and so on, which will impact the community’s ability to react and respond to the difficulties that they currently face and grow as a result.

Mae swyddi’n hollbwysig, fel y dywedodd Brian yn gynharach. Ni all neb amau ymrwymiad y Cynulliad i ddelio ag argyfyngau pan ydynt yn codi. Mae hynny’n amlwg oddi wrth y pecyn £92 miliwn a roddwyd mewn ymateb i anawsterau Corus—ymateb sylweddol o ran peri i’r gwahanol asiantaethau gydweithio. Mae’r pum awdurdod lleol yn y De-ddwyrain, er enghraifft, wedi arloesi dull o weithredu sy’n dangos y gwnaiff yr awdurdodau lleol yng Nghymru gydweithio pan roddir arweiniad cryf iddynt a phan allant weld gwir fantais mewn cydweithredu. Mae swyddi’n hollbwysig ac mae’r ymateb hwn yn hyrwyddo rhaglen mewn cysylltiad â’r cwmnïau adfywio trefol yng Nghasnewydd, datblygiad y cyswllt rheilffordd yng Nglyn Ebwy, ac yn y blaen, a fydd yn effeithio ar allu’r gymuned i ymateb i’r anawsterau y maent yn eu hwynebu ar hyn o bryd ac i dyfu o ganlyniad.

Housing is another vital issue. Poor housing produces poor health, educational difficulties and a range of problems across the board. In Alway in my constituency, the issue of poor housing needs to be addressed—local communities have ambitions to do so, and they have local authority backing. However, as ever, funding is scarce. I take this opportunity to repeat how important it is that local authorities are allowed to borrow against their housing stock. I know that Edwina has made several representations to the UK Treasury. I urge her to continue doing so, as it is frustrating for local authorities when they recognise need but cannot adequately address it due to lack of resources. Credit unions are also vital, and I congratulate Edwina and the Assembly for developing them in Wales.

Mae tai’n fater hollbwysig arall. Mae tai gwael yn achosi iechyd gwael, anawsterau addysgol ac amrediad o broblemau’n gyffredinol. Yn Alway yn fy etholaeth i, mae angen rhoi sylw i fater y tai gwael—mae gan y cymunedau lleol uchelgais i wneud hynny, ac mae’r awdurdod lleol yn eu cefnogi. Fodd bynnag, fel y mae bob amser, mae arian yn brin. Achubaf ar y cyfle hwn i ddweud eto pa mor bwysig yw caniatáu i’r awdurdodau lleol fenthyca yn erbyn eu stoc dai. Gwn fod Edwina wedi cyflwyno sylwadau sawl gwaith i Drysorlys y DU. Pwysaf arni i ddal i wneud hynny, gan ei bod yn peri rhwystredigaeth i’r awdurdodau lleol pan welant angen a hwythau heb y gallu i ymdrin ag ef yn ddigonol oherwydd diffyg adnoddau. Mae undebau credyd yn hollbwysig hefyd, a llongyfarchaf Edwina a’r Cynulliad ar eu datblygu yng Nghymru.

Social inclusion is a cross-cutting top priority for the Assembly, and rightly so. It must remain so, given the challenges that we face in tackling Wales’s socio-economic problems, which are recognised as being among the greatest in the UK and the European Union. Mainstream funding must be directed towards programmes such as Communities First if we are to realise our ambitions.

Mae cynhwysiant cymdeithasol yn flaenoriaeth uchel drawsbynciol i’r Cynulliad, ac felly y dylai fod. Rhaid iddo aros felly, o ystyried yr heriau a wynebwn o ran mynd i’r afael â phroblemau cymdeithasol-economaidd Cymru, y cydnabyddir eu bod ymysg y gwaethaf yn y DU a’r Undeb Ewropeaidd. Rhaid cyfeirio arian prif ffrwd at raglenni fel Rhoi Cymunedau’n Gyntaf os ydym i gyflawni’n dyheadau.

Edwina Hart The Minister for Finance, Local Government and Communities spoken in English p. 104

Edwina Hart Y Gweinidog dros Gyllid, Llywodraeth Leol a Chymunedau siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 104

I thank John Griffiths for his positive comments on the Communities First programme in his constituency. There are deprived areas in his constituency, and capacity building is key to those areas and to others across Wales. John mentioned housing, which was not mentioned by other Members. It is important that we consider housing issues if we are to deliver the social inclusion agenda. John’s point on making the necessary representations was well made. As this is not a devolved issue, Members of Parliament could also take an interest in it and press the case in the House of Commons.

Diolchaf i John Griffiths am ei sylwadau cadarnhaol ar y rhaglen Rhoi Cymunedau’n Gyntaf yn ei etholaeth. Mae ardaloedd difreintiedig yn ei etholaeth, ac mae datblygu potensial yn hollbwysig i’r ardaloedd hynny ac i eraill ledled Cymru. Soniodd John am dai, nad oedd wedi’i grybwyll gan yr Aelodau eraill. Mae’n bwysig inni ystyried materion tai os ydym i gyflawni’r agenda cynhwysiant cymdeithasol. Gwnaeth John bwynt da ar gyflwyno’r sylwadau angenrheidiol. Gan nad yw hyn yn fater a ddatganolwyd, gallai Aelodau Seneddol ymddiddori yn hyn hefyd a dadlau o’i blaid yn Nhŷ’r Cyffredin.

John and Brian Gibbons mentioned jobs. We must consider economic issues as a part of this agenda, as economic prosperity enables people to lift themselves out of poverty. A sense of pride is instilled in a community when people are employed and when they can see things changing. I will not discuss the council tax burden in some authorities in Wales where there is much poverty. It is difficult for those authorities to take programmes forward, but I have given the necessary assurances that I will consider this in future.

Soniodd John a Brian Gibbons am swyddi. Rhaid inni ystyried materion economaidd yn rhan o’r agenda hon, gan fod ffyniant economaidd yn galluogi pobl i’w codi eu hunain o dlodi. Enynnir balchder mewn cymuned pan yw pobl mewn gwaith a phan allant weld pethau’n newid. Ni thrafodaf faich y dreth gyngor mewn rhai awdurdodau yng Nghymru lle y mae llawer o dlodi. Mae’n anodd i’r awdurdodau hynny fwrw ymlaen â rhaglenni, ond yr wyf wedi rhoi’r sicrwydd angenrheidiol y byddaf yn ystyried hyn yn y dyfodol.

I am grateful to David Melding for his contribution, particularly his reference to credit unions. They are important, and the fact that the Assembly is developing a credit union for Members and staff sends out a positive message. Like David, I am concerned about youth involvement. Rhodri Glyn was right to say that we must have a more inclusive decision-making process and involve young people in our discussions. I was interested to hear young people making representations on education as part of the Welsh language review. They expressed their views from the heart. This new generation was contributing to the complex issue of policy development.

Yr wyf yn ddiolchgar i David Melding am ei gyfraniad, yn enwedig ei gyfeiriad at undebau credyd. Maent yn bwysig, ac mae’r ffaith bod y Cynulliad yn datblygu undeb credyd i’r Aelodau a’r staff yn rhoi neges gadarnhaol. Fel David, yr wyf yn bryderus ynghylch rhoi rhan i bobl ifanc. Yr oedd Rhodri Glyn yn gywir wrth ddweud bod yn rhaid inni gael proses penderfynu mwy cynhwysol a chynnwys pobl ifanc yn ein trafodaethau. Yr oedd o ddiddordeb imi glywed pobl ifanc yn cyflwyno sylwadau ar addysg fel rhan o’r adolygiad o’r Gymraeg. Mynegasant eu barn o waelod calon. Yr oedd y genhedlaeth newydd hon yn cyfrannu at y mater cymhleth o ddatblygu polisi.

David also mentioned health. I agree with his comments on promoting public health alliances. They are a useful vehicle to take the health agenda forward, and will help to improve the health of people in communities. Also, on the voluntary sector, I am sorry that I could not support David’s amendment 1, or the Plaid Cymru amendments. It is not because I wanted to say, ‘no, no, no’; it is because I believe that enough is encompassed within the report. However, I will consider the sentiment of the amendment, and consider whether I can include more detail on the integration of the voluntary sector in the next report.

Soniodd David hefyd am iechyd. Cytunaf â’i sylwadau ar hybu cynghreiriau iechyd cyhoeddus. Maent yn gyfrwng defnyddiol i hyrwyddo’r agenda iechyd, a byddant o gymorth i wella iechyd pobl yn eu cymunedau. Hefyd, ynghylch y sector gwirfoddol, mae’n ddrwg gennyf na allwn gefnogi gwelliant 1 David, neu welliannau Plaid Cymru. Nid am fod arnaf eisiau dweud ‘nace, nace, nace’ yr oedd hynny, ond am fy mod yn credu bod digon wedi’i gwmpasu o fewn yr adroddiad. Fodd bynnag, byddaf yn ystyried teimlad y gwelliant, ac yn ystyried a allaf gynnwys rhagor o fanylion ar integreiddio’r sector gwirfoddol yn yr adroddiad nesaf.

Janet Ryder spoke about the development of the report. I am grateful to the Committee for its work on this. As Gwenda said, I have reviewed some of the targets. I have also referred to some of the funding issues and the future work that we must consider. Jocelyn made comments on this and, as Peter Black has also raised several points on homelessness, I will start to address these issues in my first written report to the Committee. We can then have an ongoing dialogue throughout the year on how we can improve this. That will be reflected well in next year’s social inclusion report. We must tackle the work logically, so that we integrate it properly, rather than it simply being an add-on.

Soniodd Janet Ryder am ddatblygiad yr adroddiad. Yr wyf yn ddiolchgar i’r Pwyllgor am ei waith ar hyn. Fel y dywedodd Gwenda, yr wyf wedi adolygu rhai o’r targedau. Cyfeiriais hefyd at rai o’r materion ariannu a’r gwaith y mae’n rhaid inni ei ystyried at y dyfodol. Gwnaeth Jocelyn sylwadau ar hyn a, gan fod Peter Black wedi codi sawl pwynt ar ddigartrefedd hefyd, dechreuaf roi sylw i’r materion hyn yn fy adroddiad ysgrifenedig cyntaf i’r Pwyllgor. Gallwn wedyn gael deialog barhaus ar hyd y flwyddyn ynghylch sut y gallwn wella hyn. Bydd hynny’n cael ei adlewyrchu’n dda yn adroddiad cynhwysiant cymdeithasol y flwyddyn nesaf. Rhaid inni afael yn y gwaith yn rhesymegol, fel ein bod yn ei integreiddio’n briodol, fel ei fod yn fwy na dim ond rhywbeth atodol.

I will consider mapping child poverty in some areas. I will discuss what further work can be done to give Members a clearer picture of the situation with the Statistical Directorate.

Byddaf yn ystyried mapio tlodi plant mewn rhai ardaloedd. Byddaf yn trafod pa waith pellach y gellir ei wneud i roi darlun cliriach i’r Aelodau gyda’r Gyfarwyddiaeth Ystadegol.

Ann mentioned further education, which is an important area. We always hear parents commenting on the difficulties of sending children to university and how much it will cost them. The Assembly has tackled the issue of further education. It is awful that a 16-year-old must evaluate whether his or her parents can afford to pay for their further education. Our new provisions target the poorest groups to ensure that they have access. Distribution is about using money in the most appropriate manner. That sends a positive message about how we want to tackle the agenda.

Soniodd Ann am addysg bellach, sy’n faes pwysig. Yr ydym bob amser yn clywed rhieni’n gwneud sylwadau ar yr anawsterau a geir wrth anfon plant i’r brifysgol a faint y bydd yn ei gostio iddynt. Mae’r Cynulliad wedi mynd i’r afael â mater addysg bellach. Mae’n ofnadwy bod rhaid i rywun 16 mlwydd oed bwyso a mesur a yw ei rieni’n gallu fforddio talu am ei addysg bellach. Mae ein darpariaethau newydd yn targedu’r grwpiau tlotaf i sicrhau eu bod yn cael mynediad. Mae dosbarthu’n golygu defnyddio arian yn y modd mwyaf priodol. Mae hynny’n gyrru neges gadarnhaol ynghylch sut yr ydym am fynd i’r afael â’r agenda.

I was interested in Ann’s points about Rhyl. At yesterday’s Local Government and Housing Committee, some of us were unhappy with housing associations’ comments about community regeneration. It is for communities to have pride in themselves, even though they may appear poor and having few advantages to the outside world. If a community wants to improve itself, we are there to assist it in developing the pride and purpose to exist. As Peter indicated, we must all be committed to this anti-poverty agenda. I am pleased that all parties—and this goes back to Rhodri Glyn’s points on attaining a consensus—have looked at ‘Communities First’ and realised that it is not just a three-year programme. It is a generational issue, and we are all committed, in our individual ways, to support some form of policy development.

Yr oeddwn yn ymddiddori yn y pwyntiau a wnaeth Ann am y Rhyl. Yng nghyfarfod y Pwyllgor Llywodraeth Leol a Thai ddoe, yr oedd rhai ohonom yn anfodlon ar sylwadau’r cymdeithasau tai am adfywio cymunedol. Dylai cymunedau ymfalchïo ynddynt eu hunain, er y gallai ymddangos i’r byd y tu allan eu bod yn dlawd ac yn brin o fanteision. Os yw cymuned am ei gwella ei hun, yr ydym yno i’w chynorthwyo wrth iddi feithrin balchder a diben i’w bodolaeth. Fel y nododd Peter, rhaid i bob un ohonom ymrwymo i’r agenda wrth-dlodi hon. Yr wyf yn falch bod yr holl bleidiau—ac mae hynny’n mynd yn ôl at bwyntiau Rhodri Glyn ar sicrhau consensws—wedi edrych ar ‘Rhoi Cymunedau’n Gyntaf’ ac wedi sylweddoli nad rhaglen dair blynedd yn unig ydyw. Mae’n fater adfywiadol, ac yr ydym oll wedi ymrwymo, yn ein ffyrdd ein hunain, i gefnogi rhyw fath o ddatblygu ar bolisi.

Peter Law referred to me as a ‘good socialist’. Sometimes I am, but whatever I am; I am a committed socialist. Ultimately, bringing together the policy initiatives of which you spoke—health and education—has proven that the cost-cutting agenda is working. It might not seem like one incredible bang. For example, an announcement of £20 million on one project is an incredible bang. However, all these little projects come together to make a whole in terms of changing how things work in society.

Cyfeiriodd Peter Law ataf fel ‘sosialydd da’. Yr ydwyf weithiau ond, beth bynnag ydwyf, yr wyf yn sosialydd ymroddedig. Yn y pen draw, mae dod â’r mentrau polisi y soniasoch amdanynt—iechyd ac addysg—at ei gilydd wedi profi bod yr agenda torri costau’n gweithio. Efallai nad yw’n ymddangos yn glec anhygoel. Er enghraifft, mae cyhoeddiad o £20 miliwn ar un prosiect yn glec anhygoel. Fodd bynnag, mae’r prosiectau bach hyn yn dod at ei gilydd i wneud cyfanwaith o ran newid y modd y mae pethau’n gweithio mewn cymdeithas.

On Rhodri Glyn’s questions, and on women’s aid in particular, Jane Hutt and I have been reviewing the funding streams issues to see if we can establish good funding streams across Wales, consistent with how we deal with some of the women’s aid issues. I ought not to comment on Alison Halford’s intervention on the Wales Millennium Centre. However, there is a culture and arts issue in social inclusion. The Assembly has made more money available to the arts council to deal with areas outside Cardiff—which used to get everything—so that arts will be integral to the economic and social wellbeing of Wales. Also, it is important that we consider economic issues in the context of this report and focus the work of some of the Assembly sponsored public bodies, such as the WDA, into some of the issues that you, Rhodri Glyn, mentioned in relation to your constituency. Your concern for your valleys is mirrored across many Members’ constituencies in terms of the economic and social reality of the day.

Ynghylch cwestiynau Rhodri Glyn, ac ar gymorth i fenywod yn benodol, mae Jane Hutt a minnau wedi bod yn adolygu’r materion ffrydiau ariannu i weld a allwn sefydlu ffrydiau ariannu da ledled Cymru, yn gyson â’r modd yr ydym yn delio â rhai o’r materion cymorth i fenywod. Ni ddylwn wneud sylw ar ymyriad Alison Halford ar Ganolfan Mileniwm Cymru. Fodd bynnag, mae mater o ran diwylliant a’r celfyddydau’n codi mewn cynhwysiant cymdeithasol. Mae’r Cynulliad wedi darparu rhagor o arian i gyngor y celfyddydau i ddelio ag ardaloedd y tu allan i Gaerdydd—a arferai gael popeth—fel y bydd y celfyddydau’n rhan annatod o les economaidd a chymdeithasol Cymru. Hefyd, mae’n bwysig ein bod yn ystyried materion economaidd yng nghyd-destun yr adroddiad hwn ac yn canolbwyntio gwaith rhai o’r cyrff cyhoeddus a noddir gan y Cynulliad, fel y WDA, ar rai o’r materion yr oeddech chi, Rhodri Glyn, wedi’u crybwyll mewn cysylltiad â’ch etholaeth. Adlewyrchir eich pryder am eich cymoedd chi yn etholaethau llawer o’r Aelodau o ran y realiti economaidd a chymdeithasol sydd ohoni heddiw.

I have answered the majority of points raised. The report is important because it is an ongoing process. It will never be perfect. It contains much information now and we must decide how to better monitor it. However, with the type of good debate that we heard today, and the good discussions at the Local Government and Housing Committee, we will, in due course, have a report of which we can be proud. However, and more importantly, we do not want to be proud of bits of paper; we want to be proud of the outcomes that those reports can deliver.

Yr wyf wedi ateb y rhan fwyaf o’r pwyntiau a godwyd. Mae’r adroddiad yn bwysig am ei fod yn broses barhaus. Ni fydd byth yn berffaith. Mae’n cynnwys llawer o wybodaeth yn awr a rhaid inni benderfynu sut i’w monitro’n well. Fodd bynnag, gyda dadl dda o’r math a gawsom heddiw, a’r trafodaethau da yn y Pwyllgor Llywodraeth Leol a Thai, bydd gennym, maes o law, adroddiad y gallwn ymfalchïo ynddo. Fodd bynnag, ac yn bwysicach na hynny, nid ydym am ymfalchïo mewn darnau o bapur; yr ydym am ymfalchïo yn y canlyniadau y gall yr adroddiadau hynny eu cyflawni.

Gwelliant 1 David Melding t. 107

Amendment 1 David Melding p. 107

GwrthodwydRejected O blaidFor 16 YmatalAbstain 0 Yn erbynAgainst 29

Gwrthodwyd y gwelliant.

Amendment defeated.

Sut y pleidleisiodd yr AelodauHow Members voted
O blaidFor (16)
  • Alun Cairns
  • Cynog Dafis
  • David Davies
  • Jocelyn Davies
  • William Graham
  • Brian Hancock
  • Pauline Jarman
  • Elin Jones
  • Gareth Jones
  • Ieuan Wyn Jones
  • David Lloyd
  • David Melding
  • Jonathan Morgan
  • Janet Ryder
  • Rhodri Glyn Thomas
  • Phil Williams
Yn erbynAgainst (29)
  • Lorraine Barrett
  • Mick Bates
  • Peter Black
  • Eleanor Burnham
  • Rosemary Butler
  • Christine Chapman
  • Jane Davidson
  • Andrew Davies
  • Ron Davies
  • Sue Essex
  • Delyth Evans
  • Michael German
  • Brian Gibbons
  • Janice Gregory
  • John Griffiths
  • Alison Halford
  • Edwina Hart
  • Jane Hutt
  • Ann Jones
  • Carwyn Jones
  • Peter Law
  • Huw Lewis
  • Val Lloyd
  • Tom Middlehurst
  • Rhodri Morgan
  • Alun Pugh
  • Jenny Randerson
  • Karen Sinclair
  • Gwenda Thomas

Gwelliant 2 Janet Ryder t. 108

Amendment 2 Janet Ryder p. 108

GwrthodwydRejected O blaidFor 16 YmatalAbstain 0 Yn erbynAgainst 28

Gwrthodwyd y gwelliant.

Amendment defeated.

Sut y pleidleisiodd yr AelodauHow Members voted
O blaidFor (16)
  • Alun Cairns
  • Cynog Dafis
  • David Davies
  • Jocelyn Davies
  • William Graham
  • Brian Hancock
  • Pauline Jarman
  • Elin Jones
  • Gareth Jones
  • Ieuan Wyn Jones
  • David Lloyd
  • David Melding
  • Jonathan Morgan
  • Janet Ryder
  • Rhodri Glyn Thomas
  • Phil Williams
Yn erbynAgainst (28)
  • Lorraine Barrett
  • Mick Bates
  • Peter Black
  • Eleanor Burnham
  • Christine Chapman
  • Jane Davidson
  • Andrew Davies
  • Ron Davies
  • Sue Essex
  • Delyth Evans
  • Michael German
  • Brian Gibbons
  • Janice Gregory
  • John Griffiths
  • Alison Halford
  • Edwina Hart
  • Jane Hutt
  • Ann Jones
  • Carwyn Jones
  • Peter Law
  • Huw Lewis
  • Val Lloyd
  • Tom Middlehurst
  • Rhodri Morgan
  • Alun Pugh
  • Jenny Randerson
  • Karen Sinclair
  • Gwenda Thomas

Gwelliant 3 Janet Ryder t. 108

Amendment 3 Janet Ryder p. 108

GwrthodwydRejected O blaidFor 16 YmatalAbstain 0 Yn erbynAgainst 28

Gwrthodwyd y gwelliant.

Amendment defeated.

Sut y pleidleisiodd yr AelodauHow Members voted
O blaidFor (16)
  • Alun Cairns
  • Cynog Dafis
  • David Davies
  • Jocelyn Davies
  • William Graham
  • Brian Hancock
  • Pauline Jarman
  • Elin Jones
  • Gareth Jones
  • Ieuan Wyn Jones
  • David Lloyd
  • David Melding
  • Jonathan Morgan
  • Janet Ryder
  • Rhodri Glyn Thomas
  • Phil Williams
Yn erbynAgainst (28)
  • Lorraine Barrett
  • Mick Bates
  • Peter Black
  • Eleanor Burnham
  • Christine Chapman
  • Jane Davidson
  • Andrew Davies
  • Ron Davies
  • Sue Essex
  • Delyth Evans
  • Michael German
  • Brian Gibbons
  • Janice Gregory
  • John Griffiths
  • Alison Halford
  • Edwina Hart
  • Jane Hutt
  • Ann Jones
  • Carwyn Jones
  • Peter Law
  • Huw Lewis
  • Val Lloyd
  • Tom Middlehurst
  • Rhodri Morgan
  • Alun Pugh
  • Jenny Randerson
  • Karen Sinclair
  • Gwenda Thomas

DerbyniwydAdopted O blaidFor 45 YmatalAbstain 0 Yn erbynAgainst 0

Derbyniwyd y cynnig.

Motion carried.

Sut y pleidleisiodd yr AelodauHow Members voted
O blaidFor (45)
  • Lorraine Barrett
  • Mick Bates
  • Peter Black
  • Eleanor Burnham
  • Rosemary Butler
  • Alun Cairns
  • Christine Chapman
  • Cynog Dafis
  • Jane Davidson
  • Andrew Davies
  • David Davies
  • Jocelyn Davies
  • Ron Davies
  • Sue Essex
  • Delyth Evans
  • Michael German
  • Brian Gibbons
  • William Graham
  • Janice Gregory
  • John Griffiths
  • Alison Halford
  • Brian Hancock
  • Edwina Hart
  • Jane Hutt
  • Pauline Jarman
  • Ann Jones
  • Carwyn Jones
  • Elin Jones
  • Gareth Jones
  • Ieuan Wyn Jones
  • Peter Law
  • Huw Lewis
  • David Lloyd
  • Val Lloyd
  • David Melding
  • Tom Middlehurst
  • Jonathan Morgan
  • Rhodri Morgan
  • Alun Pugh
  • Jenny Randerson
  • Janet Ryder
  • Karen Sinclair
  • Gwenda Thomas
  • Rhodri Glyn Thomas
  • Phil Williams

Dadl Fer

Short Debate

Ffordd Liniaru Traffordd yr M4–Pryd?

M4 Motorway Relief Road—When?

William Graham spoken in English p. 110

William Graham siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 110

Members will be aware of the Minister for Environment’s announcement this morning. It is quite extraordinary, and is a slap in the face, not only for south-east Wales, but for the economic targets that we have set for the whole of Wales. Economic recovery is unsustainable without adequate communication and proximity to markets. John Maynard Keynes made that observation, and it is one that we should bear in mind if we are committed to economic recovery in Wales. Business commentators throughout the principality greeted this morning’s statement with incredulity. The road, as it exists, is a major constraint on economic advancement, which could be removed by a commitment to the M4 relief road.

Bydd yr Aelodau’n gwybod am gyhoeddiad y Gweinidog dros yr Amgylchedd y bore yma. Mae’n gwbl ryfeddol, ac mae’n ergyd gas, nid yn unig i’r De-ddwyrain, ond i’r targedau economaidd yr ydym wedi’u gosod i Gymru gyfan. Ni ellir cynnal adferiad economaidd heb gyfathrebu digonol ac agosrwydd i farchnadoedd. John Maynard Keynes a wnaeth y sylw hwnnw, ac mae’n un y dylem ei gofio os ydym o ddifrif ynghylch yr adferiad economaidd yng Nghymru. Yr oedd sylwebyddion busnes ledled y dywysogaeth yn methu â chredu’r datganiad pan wnaethpwyd ef y bore yma. Mae’r ffordd, fel y mae, yn gyfyngiad mawr ar gynnydd economaidd, y gellid ei ddileu drwy ymrwymo i adeiladu ffordd liniaru’r M4.

There will be perilous consequences to this delay. The lack of proposals to alleviate a known problem will have a serious impact and be a severe blow to new jobs. The M4 is a major traffic route into south Wales. Its importance is recognised by the recent building of a second Severn crossing, to address the problems of speed restrictions and increased traffic volume, and the regular closure of the original bridge because of high winds.

Bydd canlyniadau peryglus i’r oedi hwn. Bydd y diffyg cynigion i liniaru problem hysbys yn cael effaith ddifrifol ac yn ergyd drwm i swyddi newydd. Mae’r M4 yn llwybr traffig o bwys i dde Cymru. Cydnabuwyd ei phwysigrwydd drwy godi’r ail bont dros afon Hafren yn ddiweddar, er mwyn mynd i’r afael â phroblemau cyfyngiadau cyflymder a’r cynnydd mewn traffig, ac am fod y bont wreiddiol yn cael ei chau’n rheolaidd oherwydd gwyntoedd cryf.

It is time to address the other major cause of delay—the Brynglas tunnels. In 1992, the then County Borough of Newport commissioned a study from Coopers & Lybrand, which asked, if you were an investor or major manufacturer, why would you not invest in south Wales. The first reason that they came up with, looking back over the previous 10 years, was the lack, or rather loss, of man-hours through strikes. The second was the Brynglas tunnels.

Mae’n bryd rhoi sylw i achos mawr arall yr oedi—twneli Bryn-glas. Yn 1992, comisiynwyd astudiaeth gan Gyngor Bwrdeistref Casnewydd, fel yr oedd ar y pryd, oddi wrth Coopers & Lybrand, a ofynnodd, os oeddech yn fuddsoddwr neu’n weithgynhyrchydd mawr, pam na fyddech yn buddsoddi yn ne Cymru. Y rheswm cyntaf a roesant, gan edrych yn ôl dros y 10 mlynedd blaenorol, oedd diffyg, neu’n hytrach colli, oriau gwaith drwy streiciau. Yr ail oedd twneli Bryn-glas.

Alun Cairns spoken in English p. 110

Alun Cairns siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 110

Will you give way?

A wnewch ildio?

John Marek The Deputy Presiding Officer spoken in English p. 111

John Marek Y Dirprwy Lywydd siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 111

Order. You cannot give way. It is not allowed.

Trefn. Ni allwch ildio. Ni chaniateir hynny.

William Graham spoken in English p. 111

William Graham siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 111

I have allowed John Griffiths, Eleanor Burnham and Brian Hancock three minutes of my time.

Yr wyf wedi caniatáu tair munud o’m hamser i John Griffiths, Eleanor Burnham a Brian Hancock.

This is not just a Newport issue, though Newport has the largest length of motorway of any local authority in Wales. It concerns manufacturers, particularly in the transport industry. Tremendous uncertainty is caused by delays. Delay, as I have warned, is serious. The fear of traffic disruption and the delays on the present M4 are a serious concern to all. The tunnels are incapable of being widened because of their original design and because of geological features, let alone the human cost and the need to demolish homes. We must reduce stress and tension.

Nid mater i Gasnewydd yn unig yw hwn, er mai gan Gasnewydd y mae’r darn hwyaf o draffordd o holl awdurdodau lleol Cymru. Mae’n ymwneud â gweithgynhyrchwyr, yn enwedig yn y diwydiant cludiant. Mae’r oedi’n achosi ansicrwydd mawr iawn. Mae’r oedi, fel yr wyf wedi rhybuddio, yn ddifrifol. Mae ofn ymyrryd â thraffig a’r oedi ar yr M4 bresennol yn destun pryder difrifol i bawb. Ni ellir lledu’r twneli oherwydd eu cynllun gwreiddiol ac oherwydd nodweddion daearegol, heb sôn am y gost ddynol a’r angen i ddymchwel tai. Rhaid inni leihau’r pwysau a’r tyndra.

Tolling is not a realistic option. Further delays and congestion would be intolerable. The reputation of south Wales as a good economic route is already tainted, and would be further damaged. It is not just investment in south Wales—geophysical and demographic practice denote the route of our motorway networks. The M4 is no exception. It links the most densely populated areas of Wales by the most common and cost-effective route. It is already well above its original capacity. There are approximately 24 million vehicle journeys a year on the M4. On a daily basis, there are 26,000 private cars and 7,000 commercial vehicles on it. Hopefully, this will perhaps be the last major motorway construction in Wales. The preferred route was established in 1995, which cost some £350 million. The tunnels are still an unnecessary barrier to inward investment.

Nid yw codi tollau’n ddewis realistig. Ni ellid goddef oedi a thagfeydd pellach. Mae enw da de Cymru fel llwybr economaidd da wedi’i lychwino eisoes, ac fe gâi ei niweidio ymhellach. Nid mater o fuddsoddi yn ne Cymru’n unig ydyw—arfer geoffisegol a demograffig sy’n dynodi llwybr ein rhwydweithiau traffyrdd. Nid yw’r M4 yn eithriad. Mae’n cysylltu ardaloedd mwyaf poblog Cymru ar hyd y llwybr mwyaf cyffredin a chost-effeithiol. Mae eisoes ymhell uwchlaw ei chapasiti gwreiddiol. Mae tua 24 miliwn o deithiau cerbyd y flwyddyn ar yr M4. Bob dydd, mae 26,000 o geir preifat a 7,000 o gerbydau masnachol yn mynd arni. Yr wyf yn gobeithio mai hwn fydd y gwaith adeiladu traffordd mawr olaf yng Nghymru o bosibl. Pennwyd y llwybr dewisol yn 1995, a’i gost oedd tua £350 miliwn. Mae’r twneli’n dal i fod yn rhwystr diangen rhag mewnfuddsoddi.

This corridor is a major artery and can be a catalyst for new jobs throughout south-east Wales. It is recognised as part of the trans-European network for transport, and we wish to remain part of what is colloquially known as the golden banana, which starts somewhere in Ireland, widens through England, France and Germany, and ends in the plains of Italy. Without good communications, we risk being on the fringes.

Mae’r coridor hwn yn brif wythïen a gall fod yn gatalydd i swyddi newydd ledled y De-ddwyrain. Fe’i cydnabyddir yn rhan o’r rhwydwaith traws-Ewropeaidd i drafnidiaeth, a dymunwn aros yn rhan o’r hyn a elwir ar lafar yn ‘fanana aur’, sy’n dechrau yn rhywle yn Iwerddon, yn ymledaenu drwy Loegr, Ffrainc a’r Almaen, ac yn dod i ben ar wastadeddau’r Eidal. Heb gyfathrebu da, mae perygl inni fod ar yr ymylon.

It is also important for tourism. After all, if you cannot get to the prettier parts of Wales, and the West, why will you bother to come in the first place? The Assembly has already recognised, with a grant of £10 million, the Newport regeneration programme, with match funding from the Welsh Development Agency for three years, and a promise that development value will be recycled to fund future initiatives. The Minister has refused a transport bid from Monmouthshire County Council for the M48 Caldicot interchange as recently as February 2002.

Mae hefyd yn bwysig i dwristiaeth. Wedi’r cwbl, os na allwch gyrraedd y rhannau harddaf o Gymru, a’r Gorllewin, i beth y trafferthwch ddod yn y lle cyntaf? Mae’r Cynulliad eisoes wedi cydnabod rhaglen adfywio Casnewydd, gan roi grant o £10 miliwn, gydag arian cyfatebol oddi wrth Awdurdod Datblygu Cymru am dair blynedd, ac addewid y caiff gwerth y datblygu ei ailgylchu i ariannu mentrau yn y dyfodol. Mae’r Gweinidog wedi gwrthod cais trafnidiaeth oddi wrth Gyngor Sir Fynwy ar gyfer cyfnewidfa M48 Caldicot mor ddiweddar â Chwefror 2002.

The published route can now be reviewed and can be moved nearer the existing steelworks access road following the closure of Llanwern. Any northward shift away from the Gwent levels—which is a site of special scientific interest—is to be commended. The Cabinet reconsidered in July, spending £34 million on the first phase of the M4 relief road, which needs another £29 million to improve the existing junction on the M4 at 23A and 23. Some 90 per cent of business for hauliers is what they call ‘just in time’. Customer relations are seriously damaged when customers record that their deliveries are consistently delayed.

Gellir adolygu’r llwybr a gyhoeddwyd yn awr a’i symud yn agosach at ffordd fynediad bresennol y gwaith dur ar ôl cau gwaith Llanwern. Mae unrhyw symud tua’r gogledd oddi wrth wastadeddau Gwent—sy’n safle o ddiddordeb gwyddonol arbennig—i’w gymeradwyo. Yng Ngorffennaf, ailystyriodd y Cabinet wario £34 miliwn ar gam cyntaf ffordd liniaru’r M4, y mae angen £29 miliwn arall ar ei chyfer i wella’r gyffordd bresennol ar yr M4 yn 23A a 23. Tua 90 y cant o fusnes cludwyr yw’r hyn a alwant yn waith ‘mewn union bryd’. Gwneir niwed difrifol i’r cysylltiadau â chwsmeriaid pan yw’r cwsmeriaid yn cofnodi bod eu cludiadau’n hwyr yn gyson.

Today’s announcement mentions a wish list to try to increase freight by rail. We are told that, if there were a 50 per cent increase in freight traffic on the railways, it would only reduce road traffic by less than 10 per cent. We have a situation of major delays, with pollution, frustration, further dangers to human health, stress and road rage. There are 50 collisions between junctions 23 and 29 each month, five of which are serious. Fortunately, fatal accidents are rare, but it is a heavy price to pay for continued delay.

Mae’r cyhoeddiad heddiw’n sôn am restr ddymuniadau i geisio cynyddu’r cludiant ar reilffyrdd. Dywedir wrthym, pe byddai cynnydd o 50 y cant yn y traffig cludiant ar y rheilffyrdd, na fyddai ond yn lleihau’r traffig ar ffyrdd o lai na 10 y cant. Mae gennym sefyllfa lle y mae oedi mawr, gyda llygredd, rhwystredigaeth, peryglon pellach i iechyd pobl, straen a gwylltio wrth bobl ar y ffordd. Mae 50 o wrthdrawiadau rhwng cyffyrdd 23 a 29 bob mis, a phump ohonynt yn rhai difrifol. Yn ffodus, ychydig o ddamweiniau angheuol a geir, ond mae’n bris rhy fawr i’w dalu am oedi parhaus.

We welcome the southern distributor road in Newport. However, it will not solve the problem. It will reduce access to water berths on the river, and compensation will be payable. Because of this later bridge at a higher level in the river, it may well be possible to reduce the proposed height of the new bridge. It is said that this bridge will be some 200 ft in the air to allow vessels to navigate the river. This need not be necessary. There are many ports throughout the world that have navigation difficulties. You simply charter the right vessel to navigate that access. It is said that this bridge being so high in the air will cause such an alteration in the microclimate, that on the Twmbarlwm range in the north of Newport, there would either be permanent snow or people would be able to grow grapes there.

Yr ydym yn croesawu’r ffordd ddosbarthu ddeheuol yng Nghasnewydd. Fodd bynnag, ni fydd yn datrys y broblem. Bydd yn lleihau’r mynediad at yr angorfeydd ar yr afon, a bydd yn rhaid talu iawndal. Oherwydd y bont ddiweddarach hon sydd ar lefel uwch yn yr afon, mae’n ddigon posibl y bydd modd gostwng uchder arfaethedig y bont newydd. Dywedir y bydd y bont hon tua 200 troedfedd o uchder fel y gall llongau dramwyo’r afon. Nid oes angen hynny. Mae llawer o borthladdoedd ledled y byd lle y ceir anawsterau mordwyo. Y cwbl a wnewch yw llogi’r cwch iawn i dramwyo’r fynedfa honno. Dywedir y bydd y ffaith bod y bont hon mor uchel yn yr awyr yn peri’r fath newid yn y meicrohinsawdd fel y bydd un ai eira bob amser ar fryniau Twmbarlwm i’r gogledd o Gasnewydd neu bydd pobl yn gallu tyfu grawnwin yno.

I press the case also for the new junction of the M48 serving the B4245 between Rogiet and Caldicot. Concept proposals have been deposited with Monmouthshire County Council. There is a possible university campus, a district centre, private and public housing, and a park and ride scheme. This has already been suggested as a good modal transition point, particularly based on the former Severn tunnel junction, with a model village and traffic-free home zones. This is an important economic concept. It is vital that this should take place. Minister, I ask you to reconsider your priorities. This will improve economic activity throughout Wales.

Yr wyf hefyd yn dadlau dros gyffordd newydd i’r M48 i wasanaethu’r B4245 rhwng Rogiet a Caldicot. Mae cynlluniau cysyniad wedi’u rhoi ar gadw gan Gyngor Sir Fynwy. Mae’n bosibl y byddai campws prifysgol, canolfan ddosbarth, tai preifat a chyhoeddus, a chynllun parcio a theithio. Awgrymwyd eisoes bod hwn yn bwynt trosglwyddo moddol da, yn enwedig gan ei fod wedi’i leoli ar gyn gyffordd twnel Hafren, gyda phentref model a pharthau cartrefi heb draffig. Mae hwn yn gysyniad economaidd pwysig. Mae’n hollbwysig ei fod yn digwydd. Weinidog, gofynnaf i chi ailystyried eich blaenoriaethau. Bydd hyn yn hybu gweithgaredd economaidd ledled Cymru.

John Griffiths spoken in English p. 113

John Griffiths siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 113

Thank you, Bill, for allowing me a minute of your short debate. It is extremely important that we take integrated transport forward in south-east Wales. The Assembly is working with the Transport Integration in the Gwent Economic Region Consortium to do this. We all know that improvements are needed, that there are real difficulties with congestion on the M4, and that there needs to be an integrated way forward. Developments are happening—there is the southern distributor road, the improvements to the heads of the Valleys road, and the Ebbw Vale to Cardiff passenger rail link, which, I hope, will be quickly extended to Newport. Things are happening, but we need to ensure that there is an adequate response. With all the difficulties post-Corus, we must effectively address the problems. For example, Bill referred to safety on the M4. There is no adequate alternative route to the M4 in case of an emergency. We also need a link with the M48, as Bill mentioned. There is much to be done and, post-Corus, I hope that we will be able to take things forward constructively, in an integrated way.

Diolch i chi, Bill, am roi munud o’ch dadl fer i mi. Mae’n bwysig iawn ein bod yn bwrw ymlaen â thrafnidiaeth integredig yn y De-ddwyrain. Mae’r Cynulliad yn gweithio gyda Chonsortiwm Integreiddio Trafnidiaeth yn Rhanbarth Economaidd Gwent i wneud hynny. Yr ydym oll yn gwybod bod angen gwelliannau, bod anawsterau gwirioneddol o ran tagfeydd ar yr M4, a bod angen ffordd integredig ymlaen. Mae datblygiadau’n digwydd—dyna’r ffordd ddosbarthu ddeheuol, y gwelliannau i ffordd blaenau’r Cymoedd, a’r cyswllt rheilffordd teithwyr o Lyn Ebwy i Gaerdydd a gaiff ei ymestyn yn gyflym, yr wyf yn gobeithio, i Gasnewydd. Mae pethau’n digwydd, ond rhaid inni sicrhau bod yr ymateb yn ddigonol. Gyda’r holl anawsterau ar ôl Corus, rhaid inni ymdrin â’r problemau’n effeithiol. Er enghraifft, cyfeiriodd Bill at ddiogelwch ar yr M4. Nid oes llwybr digonol arall yn lle’r M4 pe byddai damwain yn digwydd. Mae arnom angen cyswllt â’r M48, fel y dywedodd Bill. Mae llawer i’w wneud ac, ar ôl Corus, gobeithiaf y byddwn yn gallu bwrw ymlaen â phethau’n adeiladol, mewn modd integredig.

Eleanor Burnham spoken in English p. 114

Eleanor Burnham siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 114

The Welsh Liberal Democrats agree that we should invest in an integrated and improved public transport infrastructure to provide a local solution—meaning that much local traffic could avoid the Brynglas tunnels—and concentrate on improvements to the Magor interchange. We should not decimate the countryside at a cost of millions when alternatives are available. The key question is not whether the M4 relief road should be given the go ahead, but whether the investment can be found to substantially upgrade public transport in Newport and the surrounding valleys, to remove 20 per cent of the traffic from the existing M4 and local roads. We must find alternatives for local traffic, linking the Magor interchange through the Llanwern site dual carriageway to the new southern distributor road.

Mae Democratiaid Rhyddfrydol Cymru’n cytuno y dylem ddefnyddio’r buddsoddiad i greu isadeiledd trafnidiaeth gyhoeddus integredig a gwell er mwyn rhoi ateb lleol—sy’n golygu y gallai llawer o’r traffig lleol osgoi twneli Bryn-glas—a chanolbwyntio ar welliannau i gyfnewidfa Magwyr. Ni ddylem ddinistrio cefn gwlad ar gost o filiynau pan fo dewisiadau eraill ar gael. Y cwestiwn allweddol yw nid a ddylid mynd ymlaen â ffordd liniaru’r M4, ond a ellir dod o hyd i fuddsoddiad i wella trafnidiaeth gyhoeddus yn sylweddol yng Nghasnewydd a’r cymoedd o’i gwmpas, i fynd ag 20 y cant o’r traffig oddi ar yr M4 a’r ffyrdd lleol presennol. Rhaid dod o hyd i ddewisiadau eraill ar gyfer traffig lleol, drwy gysylltu cyfnewidfa Magwyr drwy ffordd gerbydau ddeuol safle Llanwern â’r ffordd ddosbarthu ddeheuol newydd.

Brian Hancock spoken in English p. 114

Brian Hancock siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 114

Thank you, citizen Bill, for allowing me to contribute. I was a member of the original big Committee, the Local Government, Environment, Planning and Housing—I cannot remember its full title, it goes on—when the Plaid group did not support the M4 relief road because—[ASSEMBLY MEMBERS: ‘Shame.’] It was not a shame. This was due to its excessive cost, the environmental impact and because resources should be put toward public transport. That is easily done, and we have heard some examples—

Diolch i chi, ddinesydd Bill, am ganiatáu imi gyfrannu. Yr oeddwn yn aelod o’r Pwyllgor mawr gwreiddiol, Llywodraeth Leol, yr Amgylchedd, Cynllunio a Thai—ni allaf gofio ei enw llawn, mae’n hwy na hynny—pan nad oedd grŵp y Blaid yn cefnogi ffordd liniaru’r M4 oherwydd—[AELODAU O’R CYNULLIAD: ‘Cywilydd.’] Nid oedd yn gywilydd. Yr oedd oherwydd ei chost ormodol, yr effaith amgylcheddol ac am y dylid rhoi adnoddau at drafnidiaeth gyhoeddus. Gellir gwneud hynny’n rhwydd, a chlywsom rai enghreifftiau—

Jonathan Morgan spoken in English p. 114

Jonathan Morgan siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 114

Will you take an intervention?

A wnewch dderbyn ymyriad?

John Marek The Deputy Presiding Officer spoken in English p. 114

John Marek Y Dirprwy Lywydd siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 114

Order. You cannot take an intervention, Brian. You only have one minute.

Trefn. Ni allwch dderbyn ymyriad, Brian. Dim ond un funud sydd gennych.

Brian Hancock spoken in English p. 114

Brian Hancock siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 114

Basically, road building does not control traffic. It increases the output of global warming gasses and, consequently, does not contribute to sustainable development. Recently, I have written to the Minister, and to Newport County Borough Council, to raise a concern, and to suggest a solution, with respect to the southern distributor road, which I also raised during the consultation. It is hoped to reduce industrial traffic through the Brynglas tunnels. The current suggestion takes the Coldra roundabout, Ringland Way, and Ysbyty Road—

Yn y bôn, nid yw adeiladu ffyrdd yn rheoli traffig. Mae’n cynyddu all-lif y nwyon sy’n achosi cynhesu byd-eang ac, o ganlyniad, nid yw’n cyfrannu at ddatblygu cynaliadwy. Yn ddiweddar, ysgrifennais at y Gweinidog, ac at Gyngor Bwrdeistref Sirol Casnewydd, i godi mater sy’n peri pryder, ac i awgrymu ateb, ynglŷn â’r ffordd ddosbarthu ddeheuol, a godais hefyd yn ystod yr ymgynghoriad. Gobeithir lleihau’r traffig diwydiannol drwy dwneli Bryn-glas. Mae’r awgrym presennol yn cymryd cylchdro Coldra, Ringland Way, ac Ysbyty Road—

Rosemary Butler spoken in English p. 115

Rosemary Butler siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 115

Ysbyty Road? I do not think so.

Ysbyty Road? Nid wyf yn credu ei fod.

John Marek The Deputy Presiding Officer spoken in English p. 115

John Marek Y Dirprwy Lywydd siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 115

Order. You have had your minute, Brian.

Trefn. Cawsoch eich munud, Brian.

Brian Hancock spoken in English p. 115

Brian Hancock siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 115

I timed my contribution at 59 seconds.

Hanner cant a naw o eiliadau oedd fy mesuriad i o’m cyfraniad.

John Marek The Deputy Presiding Officer spoken in English p. 115

John Marek Y Dirprwy Lywydd siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 115

Order. You must seize your opportunities. Members have been here for nearly three hours. I remind Members that interventions are not allowed in the first part of the short debate, when people are making short contributions. Members are allowed to seek to intervene in the Minister’s speech, but it is a matter for the Minister as to whether she accepts those interventions.

Trefn. Rhaid ichi achub ar eich cyfleoedd. Mae’r Aelodau yma ers ymron i dair awr. Yr wyf yn atgoffa’r Aelodau na chaniateir ymyriadau yn rhan gyntaf y ddadl fer, pan yw’r siaradwyr yn gwneud cyfraniadau byr. Caniateir i’r Aelodau geisio ymyrryd yn araith y Gweinidog, ond mater i’r Gweinidog yw a yw’n derbyn yr ymyriadau hynny.

Sue Essex The Minister for Environment spoken in English p. 115

Sue Essex Y Gweinidog dros yr Amgylchedd siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 115

I have an engagement in Carmarthen, so I will go through my speech fairly quickly too. William, by luck or design, you have an opportunity today for a short debate on a pretty timely occasion, because I have today announced the trunk-road programme for Wales. I hope that all Members received their copy of the announcement early this morning.

Mae gennyf gyfarfod yng Nghaerfyrddin, felly af finnau drwy fy araith yn eithaf cyflym. William, drwy lwc neu fwriad, mae gennych gyfle heddiw i gael dadl fer ar achlysur eithaf amserol, oherwydd heddiw cyhoeddais y rhaglen cefnffyrdd i Gymru. Gobeithiaf fod yr holl Aelodau wedi derbyn eu copi o’r cyhoeddiad yn gynnar y bore yma.

David Davies spoken in English p. 115

David Davies siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 115

Will you give way?

A wnewch ildio?

Sue Essex spoken in English p. 115

Sue Essex siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 115

No, I have just said that I do not have much time. I believe that Members received the announcement in an e-mail at 8.30 a.m. The programme is an important part of the wider transport strategy that we are deploying for Wales, which we set out in the transport framework for Wales, published last November. It is not, as you say David, a wish list. It is a thoroughly thought-out programme backed by a financial framework. I will say a few things on overall policy before I comment on the trunk-road programme. I need to set out the whole transport context—[Interruption.]

Na wnaf, yr wyf newydd ddweud nad oes gennyf lawer o amser. Credaf fod yr Aelodau wedi derbyn y cyhoeddiad mewn neges e-bost am 8.30 a.m. Mae’r rhaglen yn rhan bwysig o’r strategaeth trafnidiaeth ehangach yr ydym yn ei threfnu i Gymru, a gyflwynasom yn y fframwaith trafnidiaeth i Gymru, a gyhoeddwyd fis Tachwedd diwethaf. Nid ydyw, fel y dywedwch chi David, yn rhestr ddymuniadau. Mae’n rhaglen a ystyriwyd yn drylwyr sydd wedi’i ategu gan fframwaith ariannol. Dywedaf ychydig o bethau ar y polisi cyffredinol cyn gwneud sylw ar y rhaglen cefnffyrdd. Rhaid imi nodi’r cyd-destun trafnidiaeth yn ei gyfanrwydd—[Torri ar draws.]

John Marek The Deputy Presiding Officer spoken in English p. 116

John Marek Y Dirprwy Lywydd siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 116

Order. There are not many people in the Chamber, but this noise disturbs the Minister. I want to hear what the Minister has to say.

Trefn. Nid oes llawer o bobl yn y Siambr, ond mae’r sŵn hwn yn tarfu ar y Gweinidog. Dymunaf glywed yr hyn sydd gan y Gweinidog i’w ddweud.

Sue Essex spoken in English p. 116

Sue Essex siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 116

I want to set out the whole transport context in which this decision has been made. The transport framework announced last year emphasised integration—that is the key word. It is a framework that allows other players in the transport industry, including the transport operators, as well as the public sector, local authorities, and port and airport operators, to play their part in delivering essential transport improvements in Wales. The framework also emphasises the need for integration across policy areas, particularly in economic development and planning. The framework emphasises the need to improve public transport systems in Wales, with improvements to rail being a vital component of the strategy. I recently announced, if we are focusing on south-east Wales, plans to re-open the Ebbw Valley railway line for passenger traffic. This is a major investment to supplement our public transport policies, and provide new opportunities in this region.

Dymunaf nodi’r cyd-destun trafnidiaeth cyfan sydd y tu ôl i’r penderfyniad hwn. Yr oedd y fframwaith trafnidiaeth a gyhoeddwyd y llynedd yn rhoi pwyslais ar integreiddio—dyna’r gair allweddol. Mae’n fframwaith sy’n caniatáu i’r chwaraewyr eraill yn y diwydiant trafnidiaeth, gan gynnwys y gweithredwyr trafnidiaeth, yn ogystal â’r sector cyhoeddus, yr awdurdodau lleol, a’r gweithredwyr porthladdoedd a meysydd awyr, chwarae eu rhan wrth gyflawni gwelliannau hanfodol i drafnidiaeth yng Nghymru. Mae’r fframwaith yn rhoi pwys hefyd ar yr angen am integreiddio ar draws y meysydd polisi, yn enwedig mewn datblygu economaidd a chynllunio. Mae’r fframwaith yn pwysleisio’r angen i wella’r systemau trafnidiaeth gyhoeddus yng Nghymru, ac mae gwelliannau i reilffyrdd yn rhan hollbwysig o’r strategaeth. Cyhoeddais gynlluniau’n ddiweddar, os mai ar y De-ddwyrain yr ydym yn canolbwyntio, i ailagor llinell rheilffordd Cwm Ebwy i draffig teithwyr. Mae hyn yn fuddsoddiad sylweddol i ategu’n polisïau trafnidiaeth gyhoeddus, a darparu cyfleoedd newydd yn y rhanbarth hwn.

Support is also being delivered for road-based public transport and integration with rail, through the transport grant for new facilities and those services subsidised by the local transport services grant. These financial packages are for delivering integrated transport. The Assembly Government’s policies will offer more choices of rail and bus services, better quality alternatives to the private car, and will promote walking and cycling for short trips.

Rhoddir cymorth hefyd i drafnidiaeth gyhoeddus ar ffyrdd ac integreiddio â rheilffyrdd, drwy’r grant trafnidiaeth i gyfleusterau newydd a’r gwasanaethau hynny sy’n cael cymhorthdal drwy’r grant gwasanaethau trafnidiaeth lleol. Pwrpas y pecynnau ariannol hyn yw sicrhau trafnidiaeth integredig. Bydd polisïau Llywodraeth y Cynulliad yn cynnig rhagor o ddewisiadau o ran gwasanaethau rheilffyrdd a bysiau, dewisiadau o ansawdd gwell yn lle’r car preifat, a bydd yn hybu cerdded a beicio ar gyfer teithiau byr.

Turning to the trunk road programme, I will provide some background facts. The National Assembly for Wales is the statutory highway authority for trunk roads, including motorways, in Wales, and the Welsh Assembly Government manages that network. Trunk roads and motorways in Wales constitute about 5 per cent of the length of roads in Wales, but carry over 50 per cent of traffic, and thus the majority of the land-based movement of people and goods. You can see the importance of the trunk roads programme within our transport framework.

Gan droi at y rhaglen cefnffyrdd, rhoddaf rai o’r ffeithiau cefndir. Cynulliad Cenedlaethol Cymru yw’r awdurdod priffyrdd statudol ar gyfer cefnffyrdd, gan gynnwys traffyrdd, yng Nghymru, a Llywodraeth Cynulliad Cymru sy’n rheoli’r rhwydwaith hwnnw. Cefnffyrdd a thraffyrdd yng Nghymru yw tua 5 y cant o hyd y ffyrdd yng Nghymru, ond maent yn cario dros 50 y cant o’r traffig, a chan hynny y rhan fwyaf o’r symudiadau o bobl a nwyddau ar dir. Gallwch weld mor bwysig yw’r rhaglen cefnffyrdd o fewn ein fframwaith trafnidiaeth.

The new trunk road forward programme, as set out in the document announced today, affects the four main strategic corridors in Wales, which were identified in the transport framework. The east to west route in north Wales, mid Wales—a minor one nevertheless—south Wales, to which I referred—and the North-South corridor. The programme will address issues within those key geographical corridors.

Mae’r flaenraglen cefnffyrdd newydd, fel y’i nodir yn y ddogfen a gyhoeddwyd heddiw, yn effeithio ar y pedwar prif goridor strategol yng Nghymru, a ddynodwyd yn y fframwaith trafnidiaeth. Y llwybr o’r dwyrain i’r gorllewin yn y Gogledd, y Canolbarth—un bach er hynny—y De, y cyfeiriais ato—a’r coridor o’r De i’r Gogledd. Bydd y rhaglen yn ymdrin â’r materion sy’n codi o fewn y coridorau daearyddol allweddol hynny.

We have set out a long-term view of how the trunk road network needs to develop as a rolling programme of schemes, which we will keep under review. The priority given to the schemes is based on a set of assessment criteria, which reflects our policy aims under the headings of accessibility, economy, environment, safety and integration. We developed those criteria in collaboration with the Welsh transport forum.

Yr ydym wedi amlinellu barn hirdymor ar y modd y mae’n rhaid i’r rhwydwaith cefnffyrdd ddatblygu fel rhaglen dreiglol o gynlluniau, y byddwn yn ei chadw dan sylw. Mae’r flaenoriaeth a roddir i’r cynlluniau’n seiliedig ar set o feini prawf asesu, sy’n adlewyrchu’n nodau polisi o dan benawdau hygyrchedd, yr economi, yr amgylchedd, diogelwch ac integreiddio. Yr ydym wedi datblygu’r meini prawf hynny ar y cyd â fforwm trafnidiaeth Cymru.

Overall, the programme provides a significant basis upon which to support the economic aims and growth of Wales; secures environmental improvements for communities; cement the connections between north and south Wales—which has been one of our priorities—and ensures that trunk roads play an integral part in the overall transport network for Wales.

At ei gilydd, mae’r rhaglen yn sylfaen sylweddol i gynnal nodau economaidd a thwf Cymru; mae’n sicrhau gwelliannau amgylcheddol i gymunedau; mae’n cadarnhau’r cysylltiadau rhwng y Gogledd a’r De—a fu’n un o’n blaenoriaethau—ac yn sicrhau bod cefnffyrdd yn chwarae rhan annatod yn y rhwydwaith trafnidiaeth cyffredinol i Gymru.

The value of the schemes, programmed to start by 2008, amounts to over £400 million. This programme, agreed by the Assembly Government, demonstrates the increased commitment to funding major transport improvement in Wales, including those routes.

Mae gwerth y cynlluniau, a raglennwyd i ddechrau erbyn 2008, yn dod i dros £400 miliwn. Mae’r rhaglen hon, a gytunwyd gan Lywodraeth y Cynulliad, yn brawf o’r ymrwymiad cynyddol i ariannu gwelliannau mawr mewn trafnidiaeth yng Nghymru, gan gynnwys y llwybrau hynny.

I turn specifically to the M4 relief road. This route is essentially part of that east-west corridor. It is important that it extends eastward to England and westward to Ireland. We need to see it in that context. I have reserved judgment on bringing forward proposals for the M4 relief road in Newport, as this is a major trunk road proposal. It is an expensive option, which is anticipated to cost between £330 million and £350 million. That price indicates the scale of this development. I appreciate that it raises powerful and sensitive economic and environmental issues. People hold strong views on both sides. We have heard William’s and Eleanor’s views this morning. Eleanor felt that the money needed to go into public transport options.

Trof at ffordd liniaru’r M4 yn benodol. Mae’r llwybr hwn yn rhan, yn y bôn, o’r coridor o’r dwyrain i’r gorllewin. Mae’n bwysig ei fod yn ymestyn tua’r dwyrain i Loegr a thua’r gorllewin i Iwerddon. Rhaid inni ei weld yn y cyd-destun hwnnw. Yr wyf wedi gohirio penderfynu ar gyflwyno cynlluniau ar gyfer ffordd liniaru’r M4 yng Nghasnewydd, gan ei fod yn gynllun cefnffordd mawr. Mae’n ddewis drud, y rhagwelir y bydd ei gost rhwng £330 miliwn a £350 miliwn. Mae’r gost honno’n dangos maint y datblygiad hwn. Sylweddolaf ei fod yn codi materion economaidd ac amgylcheddol pwerus a sensitif. Mae safbwyntiau cryf ar y ddwy ochr. Clywsom farn William ac Eleanor y bore yma. Teimlai Eleanor y dylai’r arian fynd at ddewisiadau trafnidiaeth gyhoeddus.

Therefore, a decision to proceed has far-reaching implications. It is important that, in reaching its decision, the Assembly Government considers all relevant factors, including the environmental, social and economic effects, the needs of the south Wales region and a transport strategy study conducted on the M4 corridor in England. It is wrong to intimate that congestion is only a problem at the Brynglas tunnels, although they are a difficult pinch-point. If you have used the M4 in England, you will have seen the real congestion problems, especially around Bristol and perhaps in some unexpected areas further east. We also have congestion problems west of Cardiff, near Bridgend and Neath Port Talbot, so some of our policies on transport grants are also tackling congestion.

Felly, byddai goblygiadau pell-gyrhaeddol i’r penderfyniad i fynd ymlaen. Mae’n bwysig bod Llywodraeth y Cynulliad, wrth ddod i’w phenderfyniad, yn ystyried yr holl ffactorau perthnasol, gan gynnwys yr effeithiau amgylcheddol, cymdeithasol ac economaidd, anghenion rhanbarth de Cymru ac astudiaeth strategaeth trafnidiaeth a wnaethpwyd ar goridor yr M4 yn Lloegr. Mae’n anghywir awgrymu nad yw tagfeydd ond yn broblem yn nhwneli Bryn-glas, er eu bod yn wasgbwynt trafferthus. Os ydych wedi defnyddio’r M4 yn Lloegr, byddwch wedi gweld y gwir broblemau o ran tagfeydd, yn enwedig yng nghyffiniau Bryste ac efallai mewn rhai ardaloedd annisgwyl ymhellach i’r dwyrain. Mae gennym broblemau o ran tagfeydd i’r gorllewin o Gaerdydd, ger Pen-y-bont ar Ogwr a Chastell-nedd Port Talbot, felly mae rhai o’n polisïau ar grantiau trafnidiaeth yn mynd i’r afael â thagfeydd hefyd.

I want to get the message across that this is an important strategic consideration that affects not just one, but a range of geographical areas, as well as our transport and economic policies.

Dymunaf gyfleu’r neges mai ystyriaeth strategol bwysig yw hon sy’n effeithio nid ar un ond ar amryw o ardaloedd, yn ogystal â’n polisi trafnidiaeth a’n polisi economaidd.

In England, a study of the whole M4 corridor down to the south-west is underway. It is due to be published for consultation later this year, and it is important that we read its conclusions. In addition, we will develop the Wales spatial plan over the next year, and I expect it to help with this decision. I am determined not to go down the path of separating planning and transport considerations. If we are to deliver consistent growth throughout Wales, reaching the parts of Wales where there has been inadequate growth, we must ensure that our transport and planning policies are integrated. The scheme is held in the longer term—

Yn Lloegr, mae astudiaeth ar y gweill o goridor yr M4 ar ei hyd i lawr i dde-orllewin Lloegr. Mae i fod i’w chyhoeddi ar gyfer ymgynghori’n ddiweddarach eleni, ac mae’n bwysig ein bod yn darllen y casgliadau sydd ynddi. Yn ogystal â hynny, byddwn yn datblygu cynllun gofodol Cymru dros y flwyddyn nesaf, a disgwyliaf y bydd o gymorth wrth wneud y penderfyniad hwn. Yr wyf yn benderfynol o beidio â dilyn y llwybr o wahanu ystyriaethau cynllunio a thrafnidiaeth. Os ydym i gyflawni twf cyson ledled Cymru, gan gyrraedd y rhannau o Gymru lle y bu twf annigonol, rhaid inni sicrhau bod ein polisïau trafnidiaeth a chynllunio wedi’u hintegreiddio. Cedwir y cynllun yn yr hirdymor—

Alun Cairns spoken in English p. 119

Alun Cairns siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 119

Will the Minister give way?

A wnaiff y Gweinidog ildio?

Sue Essex spoken in English p. 119

Sue Essex siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 119

No, I will not. I am trying to get through this in a reasonable time.

Na wnaf. Yr wyf yn ceisio mynd drwy hyn o fewn amser rhesymol.

The scheme is held in the longer-term programme, pending the outcome of these considerations. However, we must also consider other improvements in the south-east Wales area, to which John Griffiths alluded.

Cedwir y cynllun yn y rhaglen hir dymor, wrth aros canlyniad yr ystyriaethau hyn. Fodd bynnag, rhaid inni hefyd ystyried gwelliannau eraill yn ardal de-ddwyrain Cymru, y cyfeiriodd John Griffiths atynt.

To improve transport in south-east Wales, the Assembly Government was able to support the identification and development of public transport enhancements of local and national services, to help bring about a truly integrated solution to the area’s transport problems. In addition to the half-hourly rail service between London and Cardiff, in September, Virgin CrossCountry will increase its services to the north-east, via Birmingham.

Er mwyn gwella trafnidiaeth yn y De-ddwyrain, mae Llywodraeth y Cynulliad wedi gallu helpu i ddynodi a datblygu gwelliannau i drafnidiaeth gyhoeddus mewn gwasanaethau lleol a chenedlaethol, er mwyn helpu i roi ateb gwirioneddol integredig i broblemau trafnidiaeth yr ardal. Yn ogystal â’r gwasanaeth rheilffyrdd bob hanner awr rhwng Llundain a Chaerdydd, ym mis Medi, bydd Virgin CrossCountry yn cynyddu ei wasanaethau i ogledd-ddwyrain Lloegr, drwy Birmingham.

It is important to acknowledge my earlier point about investment in the Ebbw Valley line. That will encourage many people—certainly in the lower end of that valley—to use railways to travel to work and relieve some pressure on M4 peak-flow journeys.

Mae’n bwysig cydnabod y pwynt a wneuthum o’r blaen am fuddsoddi yn llinell Cwm Ebwy. Bydd hynny’n cymell llawer o bobl—yn sicr ym mhen isaf y cwm hwnnw—i ddefnyddio’r rheilffyrdd i deithio i’w gwaith ac yn lleddfu rhywfaint o’r pwysau ar deithiau pan yw’r llif ar ei fwyaf ar yr M4.

The TIGER consortium of local authorities and South Wales Integrated Fast Transit consortium have produced a strategy for sustainable public transport for the greater Gwent region, including a detailed rail study. A regional bus strategy is expected in June 2002. We will continue to provide support for the public transport initiatives of the TIGER and SWIFT local authority consortia, while being consistent with our approach over the past two years.

Mae consortiwm awdurdodau lleol TIGER a chonsortiwm Teithio Cyflym Integredig De Cymru wedi cynhyrchu strategaeth ar gyfer trafnidiaeth gyhoeddus gynaliadwy yn rhanbarth Gwent a’i gyffiniau, gan gynnwys astudiaeth fanwl o reilffyrdd. Disgwylir strategaeth bysiau ranbarthol ym Mehefin 2002. Byddwn yn parhau i roi cymorth at fentrau trafnidiaeth gyhoeddus consortia awdurdodau lleol TIGER a SWIFT, gan fod yn gyson â’n dull gweithredu dros y ddwy flynedd diwethaf.

Through the local government settlement, we are supporting a private finance contract for the construction and operation of the southern distributor road in Newport, which has been mentioned. It is programmed to start shortly and will make a difference. We have planned this major, expensive road proposal, with Newport local authority. It is not intended to be an alternative—you are right, William; I would not pretend that it is an alternative to the M4—but, in time, it will have some diversion effect on the M4.

Drwy’r setliad llywodraeth leol, yr ydym yn rhoi cymorth i gontract cyllid preifat i adeiladu a gweithredu’r ffordd ddosbarthu ddeheuol yng Nghasnewydd, a grybwyllwyd yn barod. Fe’i rhaglennwyd i ddechrau cyn hir a bydd yn gwneud gwahaniaeth. Yr ydym wedi cynllunio’r cynllun hwn am ffordd ddrud a phwysig gydag awdurdod lleol Casnewydd. Nid oes bwriad iddo fod yn ddewis amgen—yr ydych yn iawn, William; ni fyddwn yn cymryd arnaf ei fod yn ddewis yn lle’r M4—ond, ymhen amser, fe gaiff rywfaint o effaith dargyfeirio ar yr M4.

Experience shows that investment in intelligent transport systems—and we are leading the way on this—can make an important contribution to managing the large volume of traffic on the motorway. Mantais Cymru’s work has been extremely important in managing flows along the M4 corridor at times of pressure or difficulty. We will invest in various measures on the M4 in south-east Wales to improve on and achieve this.

Mae profiad yn dangos bod buddsoddi mewn systemau trafnidiaeth deallus—ac yr ydym yn arwain y ffordd ar hyn—yn gallu gwneud cyfraniad pwysig tuag at reoli’r maint sylweddol o draffig ar y draffordd. Bu gwaith Mantais Cymru’n hynod bwysig wrth reoli llifau ar hyd coridor yr M4 ar adegau o bwysau neu anhawster. Byddwn yn buddsoddi mewn amryw o fesurau ar yr M4 yn y De-ddwyrain i wella ar hynny a’i gyflawni.

In considering the region, the trunk road improvements cover dualling work on the Heads of the Valleys road. That was announced some years ago, and there is a possibility that some of the traffic currently using the Coldra roundabout will use that much-improved Heads of the Valleys road, to be built over the next few years. Investment in that road will also encourage economic development at the top of the Valleys, where more jobs are desperately needed.

Gan ystyried y rhanbarth, mae’r gwelliannau i gefnffyrdd yn cynnwys gwaith adeiladu ffordd gerbydau ddeuol ar ffordd Blaenau’r Cymoedd. Cyhoeddwyd hynny rai blynyddoedd yn ôl, ac mae posibiliad y bydd rhywfaint o’r traffig sy’n defnyddio cylchdro Coldra ar hyn o bryd yn defnyddio’r ffordd lawer gwell ym Mlaenau’r Cymoedd, sydd i’w hadeiladu dros y blynyddoedd nesaf hyn. Bydd y buddsoddi yn y ffordd honno’n hwb hefyd i ddatblygu economaidd ym mlaenau’r Cymoedd, lle y mae taer angen rhagor o swyddi.

This demonstrates the Welsh Assembly Government’s commitment to investing in transport in the south east—we see this as a package of measures for south-east Wales. Each of these investments will have some impact in helping flows of M4 traffic. I am convinced that it is the right decision to wait and see what these strategic considerations will indicate, before we commit to proceeding with the M4 relief road. We must link our spatial planning with our transport policy.

Mae hyn yn profi ymrwymiad Llywodraeth Cynulliad Cymru i fuddsoddi mewn trafnidiaeth yn y De-ddwyrain—yr ydym yn ystyried hyn yn becyn o fesurau i’r De-ddwyrain. Caiff pob un o’r buddsoddiadau hyn rywfaint o effaith o ran helpu llifau traffig yr M4. Yr wyf yn argyhoeddedig mai’r penderfyniad iawn yw aros i weld beth fydd yr ystyriaethau strategol hyn yn ei ddangos, cyn ymrwymo i fynd ymlaen â ffordd liniaru’r M4. Rhaid inni gysylltu’n cynllunio gofodol â’n polisi trafnidiaeth.

I am not sure about William’s golden banana concept. He seemed to be moving down to Italy, working in a geographical dimension way beyond my brief. In Wales, through the spatial plan and our work with our partners in local government, we can achieve a greater understanding of the correlation between transport and planning. We can ensure that economic development is dispersed fairly throughout Wales, and that we seize opportunities.

Nid wyf yn sicr ynghylch cysyniad William o’r fanana aur. Yr oedd yn ymddangos ei fod yn symud i lawr i’r Eidal, gan weithio mewn dimensiwn daearyddol sydd ymhell y tu hwnt i’m maes i. Yng Nghymru, drwy’r cynllun gofodol a’n gwaith gyda’n partneriaid mewn llywodraeth leol, gallwn sicrhau mwy o ddealltwriaeth o’r gydberthynas rhwng trafnidiaeth a chynllunio. Gallwn sicrhau y caiff datblygu economaidd ei wasgaru’n deg ledled Cymru, a’n bod yn achub ar y cyfleoedd.

Therefore, we are taking a responsible approach. Everybody recognises that the decision to go ahead with the M4 relief road will be enormous—much public money will be stake. People will see that I am not automatically taking the predict and provide route, but am taking time for careful consideration. That is the most responsible way forward.

Felly, mae ein dull o weithredu’n un cyfrifol. Mae pawb yn cydnabod y bydd y penderfyniad i fynd ymlaen â ffordd liniaru’r M4 yn un aruthrol—bydd llawer o arian cyhoeddus yn y fantol. Bydd pobl yn gweld nad wyf yn barod i ragfynegi a darparu’n awtomatig, ond yn cymryd amser i ystyried yn ofalus. Dyna’r ffordd fwyaf cyfrifol ymlaen.

John Marek The Deputy Presiding Officer spoken in English p. 121

John Marek Y Dirprwy Lywydd siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 121

That brings today’s proceedings to a close.

Daw hynny â thrafodion heddiw i ben.

Daeth y cyfarfod i ben am 12.32 p.m.

The session ended at 12.32 p.m.