English

Cynulliad Cenedlaethol CymruNational Assembly for Wales · Cyfarfod llawnPlenary sitting

Dydd Mawrth 3 Rhagfyr 2002

Tuesday 3 December 2002

DechreuoddMet 14:00 · Daeth i benRose 17:33

Gweld y Cofnod (PDF)View the Record (PDF)

Heb ei wirio â llaw etoNot yet checked by hand

CynnwysContents

  1. 3Anerchiad gan Arlywydd Iwerddon, Mary McAleeseAddress by the President of Ireland, Mary McAleese
  2. 6Ethol i BwyllgorauElections to Committees 2 o bleidleisiau2 votes
  3. 9Cwestiynau i’r Prif WeinidogQuestions to the First Minister
    1. 9Trosglwyddo SwyddogaethauTransfer of Functions
    2. 12Ymgynghorwyr y LlywodraethGovernment Advisers
    3. 13Cynllun Tocynnau Bws am DdimFree Bus Pass scheme
    4. 15Cyllido Gofal Iechyd yng NghaerfyrddinFinancing Healthcare in Carmarthen
    5. 16Anghenion Economaidd ac Anghenion AddysgolEconomic Needs and Educational Needs
    6. 20Ymddiriedolaeth GIG Gwasanaeth Ambiwlans CymruWelsh Ambulance Service NHS Trust
    7. 21Cymorth EconomaiddEconomic Assistance
    8. 24Tenantiaid Gwrth-GymdeithasolAnti-Social Tenants
    9. 27Blaenoriaethau’r CabinetCabinet Priorities
    10. 28Polisïau Gofal IechydHealthcare Policies
  4. 30Datganiad ar Gylch Gorchwyl yr Adolygiad Arfaethedig o Awdurdodau’r Parciau Cenedlaethol yng NghymruStatement on the Terms of Reference of the Proposed Review of National Park Authorities in Wales
  5. 44Datganiad BusnesBusiness Statement
  6. 47Cymryd Rhan Mewn ChwaraeonParticipation in Sport 5 o bleidleisiau5 votes
  7. 77Delio ag Ymddieithriad Disgyblion yn Ysgolion CymruTackling Disengagement among Pupils in Welsh Schools 4 o bleidleisiau4 votes

PleidleisiauVotes

PleidlaisVoteO blaidForYmatalAbstainYn erbynAgainstCanlyniadResult
Ethol i BwyllgorauElections to Committees
Cynnig NDM1234Motion NDM123431023DerbyniwydAdopted
Cynnig NDM1233Motion NDM123332023DerbyniwydAdopted
Cymryd Rhan Mewn ChwaraeonParticipation in Sport
Gwelliant 1Amendment 121031GwrthodwydRejected
Gwelliant 2Amendment 25200DerbyniwydAdopted
Gwelliant 3Amendment 322030GwrthodwydRejected
Gwelliant 4Amendment 45200DerbyniwydAdopted
Cynnig wedi’i ddiwygioAmended motion5100DerbyniwydAdopted
Delio ag Ymddieithriad Disgyblion yn Ysgolion CymruTackling Disengagement among Pupils in Welsh Schools
Gwelliant 1Amendment 181230GwrthodwydRejected
Gwelliant 2Amendment 219031GwrthodwydRejected
Gwelliant 3Amendment 319031GwrthodwydRejected
Cynnig NDM1236Motion NDM12365000DerbyniwydAdopted

TrafodionProceedings

Cyfarfu’r Cynulliad am 2 p.m. gyda’r Dirprwy Lywydd yn y Gadair.

The Assembly met at 2 p.m. with the Deputy Presiding Officer in the Chair.

Anerchiad gan Arlywydd Iwerddon, Mary McAleese

Address by the President of Ireland, Mary McAleese

Dafydd Elis-Thomas Y Llywydd siaradwyd yn Gymraeg t. 3

Dafydd Elis-Thomas The Presiding Officer spoken in Welsh p. 3

Uchataráin na hĖireann, fáilte romhat go dtín Tionól Násiúnta—croeso i Gynulliad Cenedlaethol Cymru.

Madam President, welcome to the National Assembly for Wales.

Wrth i ni ddynesu at ddiwedd ein tymor cyntaf yng Nghynulliad Cenedlaethol cyntaf Cymru, mae’n bleser arbennig i mi, ac i’r holl Aelodau, dderbyn ymweliad swyddogol gan y brodor cyntaf o Ogledd Iwerddon i wasanaethu fel Arlywydd Gweriniaeth Iwerddon.

As we move towards the end of our first term in this first ever National Assembly for Wales, it is a particular delight for me, and for all Members, to receive an official visit from the first native of Northern Ireland to serve as President of the Irish Republic.

Yr ydym yn gwerthfawrogi’n fawr ein perthynas agos â Chynulliad Gogledd Iwerddon—yn Aelodau a swyddogion—ac yr ydym yn gobeithio y bydd ein chwaer Gynulliad yn llawn weithredol eto cyn bo hir.

We greatly value our close working relationship with the Northern Ireland Assembly—Members and officials—and we hope that our sister Assembly will soon be restored to full activity.

Mae ein Haelodau a’n Gweinidogion wedi cymryd rhan lawn yn y strwythurau gwleidyddol a chyfansoddiadol sy’n cysylltu Cymru, Prydain ac Iwerddon, ac yr ydym yn gobeithio parhau i wneud hynny. Mae eich ymweliad yma heddiw, Arlywydd, yn symbol o’r pwysigrwydd y mae ein gwledydd yn ei osod ar ddatblygu cyfiawnder, cydraddoldeb, gwrth-sectyddiaeth a chymod, sef themâu eich arlywyddiaeth, o dan y teitl ardderchog, ‘Codi Pontydd’. Heddiw, yr ydych wedi ymuno â ni drwy groesi’r hen bont y teithiwyd yn fynych drosti rhwng Cymru ac Iwerddon.

Our Members and Ministers have participated fully in the political and constitutional structures that link Wales, Britain and Ireland, and we hope to continue to do so. Your visit here today, Madam President, symbolises the importance which both countries attach to the development of justice, equality, anti-sectarianism and reconciliation, which are the themes of your presidency, excellently entitled ‘Building Bridges’. Today you have joined us by crossing that ancient and well-travelled bridge between Wales and Ireland.

Pleser arbennig i mi, ar ddiwedd fy llywyddiaeth fel hyn, yw eich gwahodd i annerch Aelodau’r Cynulliad Cenedlaethol.

It is a great pleasure for me, at the end of my term as Presiding Officer, to invite you to address National Assembly Members.

Mary McAleese Arlywydd Iwerddon siaradwyd yn Gymraeg ac yn Saesneg t. 3

Mary McAleese The President of Ireland spoken in Welsh and English p. 3

Lywydd, Brif Weinidog Cymru, Is-Ysgrifennydd Seneddol.

in Welsh Presiding Officer, First Minister, Parliamentary Under-Secretary of State.

Is mór an onóir dom bheith anseo i Tionól Náisiúnta na Breataine Bige. Bronann Muintir na h-Éireann gach beannachtis dea-ghuí ar bPobail na Tíre seo.

in Welsh It is a great honour for me to be here in the National Assembly for Wales. The people of Ireland send every blessing and their good wishes to the people of this country.

I wish to express my deep thanks for the kind invitation and, indeed, for the lovely hospitality that we have received since we arrived. It has been an enjoyable opportunity to get to know a little more about the operation of the Assembly and of the Assembly Government and, in particular, to meet this generation of political leaders, who are transforming the future of modern Wales. That has been a particular privilege.

yn Saesneg Dymunaf ddiolch o waelod calon am y gwahoddiad caredig ac, yn wir, am y croeso hyfryd a gawsom ers inni gyrraedd. Bu’n gyfle pleserus i ddod i wybod ychydig yn fwy am weithrediad y Cynulliad a Llywodraeth y Cynulliad ac, yn benodol, i gwrdd â’r genhedlaeth hon o arweinwyr gwleidyddol, sy’n trawsnewid dyfodol y Gymru gyfoes. Bu hon yn fraint arbennig.

We are, of course, near neighbours, members of the broad family of Celtic nations, colleagues in the European Union and in the British-Irish Council. However, none of those labels in themselves is a guarantee that we are actually using—and using well—the opportunities that they present for dynamic and mutually beneficial relationships and partnerships. That is the work of our generation. It is also the challenge of our generation. It is reassuring to be able to say that, in recent years, relationships between Ireland and Wales have taken a huge leap forward. Our common membership, as I mentioned, of the British-Irish Council, established under the Good Friday Agreement, is an ideal forum for each of us to build on those historic relationships and to build a new future using them, to learn from one another and to enhance co-operation along so many different axes. It gives us an opportunity to build on the already excellent and very important developing links between the Assembly and the Irish Dáil and between the Assembly Government and the Irish Government. Indeed, I know that our Taoiseach Bertie Ahern had the honour of addressing this Assembly back in March 2001. Of course, the business links that are so necessary for both of us are part and parcel of the future that we are trying to build for our people. They are very important to us, and, thankfully, the business links between us are expanding all the time.

yn Saesneg Yr ydym, wrth gwrs, yn gymdogion agos ac yn aelodau o’r teulu mawr o genhedloedd Celtaidd, ac yn gyd-aelodau yn yr Undeb Ewropeaidd a Chyngor Prydain-Iwerddon. Fodd bynnag, nid yw’r un o’r labeli hynny’n warant ynddynt eu hun ein bod yn defnyddio—ac yn defnyddio’n dda—y cyfleoedd a gynigiant ar gyfer cysylltiadau a phartneriaethau deinamig a chydfuddiannol. Dyna waith ein cenhedlaeth ni. Dyna hefyd yw’r her i’n cenhedlaeth ni. Calonogol yw gallu dweud bod y cysylltiadau rhwng Cymru ac Iwerddon wedi cymryd camau mawr ymlaen yn y blynyddoedd diwethaf. Mae ein cydaelodaeth, fel y dywedais, o Gyngor Prydain-Iwerddon, a sefydlwyd o dan Gytundeb Dydd Gwener y Groglith, yn fforwm delfrydol i’r ddau ohonom adeiladu ar seiliau’r cysylltiadau hanesyddol hynny a chreu dyfodol newydd drwy eu defnyddio, a dysgu oddi wrth ein gilydd a hybu cydweithrediad ar hyd cynifer o wahanol echelydd. Mae’n rhoi cyfle inni feithrin y cysylltiadau rhagorol a thra phwysig sy’n datblygu rhwng y Cynulliad a Dáil Iwerddon a rhwng Llywodraeth y Cynulliad a Llywodraeth Iwerddon. Yn wir, gwn fod ein Taoiseach Bertie Ahern wedi cael y fraint o annerch y Cynulliad hwn yn ôl ym Mawrth 2001. Wrth gwrs, mae’r cysylltiadau busnes sydd mor angenrheidiol i’r ddau ohonom yn rhan annatod o’r dyfodol yr ydym yn ceisio’i greu i’n pobl. Maent yn bwysig iawn i ni, ac, yn ffodus, mae’r cysylltiadau busnes rhyngom ar gynnydd drwy’r amser.

The establishment of our Consulate General here in recent years—just predating the establishing of the Assembly—is perhaps the best outward sign of our determination to foster and develop the best possible relationships between us to make the present and the future an era when we unleash a kind of new imagination and, in particular, a new imagination that will create, we hope, high-achieving partnerships between Ireland and Wales. We have been good friends, and Ireland knows that it has a very, very good friend here in Wales: that has been resoundingly confirmed to me throughout this visit.

yn Saesneg Sefydlu ein Consyliaeth Gyffredinol yma yn y blynyddoedd diwethaf—ychydig cyn sefydlu’r Cynulliad—yw’r arwydd allanol gorau, o bosibl, o’n penderfyniad i feithrin a datblygu’r cysylltiadau gorau posibl rhyngom i wneud y presennol a’r dyfodol yn oes pan ryddhawn fath newydd o ddychymyg ac, yn benodol, ddychymyg newydd a fydd yn creu, yr ydym yn gobeithio, partneriaethau tra llwyddiannus rhwng Cymru ac Iwerddon. Buom yn ffrindiau da, a gŵyr Iwerddon fod Cymru’n ffrind da iawn iddi: cadarnhawyd hynny’n bendant i mi drwy gydol yr ymweliad hwn.

We are great friends no matter what the outcome of certain matches at Lansdowne Road and at Cardiff Arms Park each year. We remain great friends and great respecters of one another. You are a little bit further along in another sport, soccer: you are a little bit closer to qualification for Euro 2004 than Ireland is. Let me express the wish that, when we meet there, we meet in the final. That will be a good day for both of us.

yn Saesneg Yr ydym yn ffrindiau mawr beth bynnag fo canlyniad rhai gemau yn Lansdowne Road a Pharc yr Arfau bob blwyddyn. Yr ydym yn dal i fod yn ffrindiau mawr ac yn fawr ein parch at ein gilydd. Yr ydych wedi llwyddo ychydig yn well mewn gêm arall, pêl-droed: yr ydych ychydig yn nes at gyrraedd cystadleuaeth Ewro 2004 nag y mae Iwerddon. Gadewch imi ddatgan y dymuniad, pan gyfarfyddwn yno, mai yn y gêm derfynol y bydd hynny. Bydd hynny’n ddiwrnod da i ni ein dau.

On behalf of the Irish people and with great heart and great thanks to all of you for your kindness to us, may I present this gift to the National Assembly for Wales, as a token of the affection and the good wishes of the Irish people. I hope that during the years ahead it will signify to the Members of this Assembly and the people of Wales, the high esteem and affection in which you are held in Ireland. It is crafted by a young Irish woman who took her Masters degree here in Cardiff, so I think that we can both take a shared pride in that genius. Please God, in time to come there will be many, many more stories of genius crafted by Irishmen and Irishwomen and Welshmen and Welshwomen as we try to craft a better future for both our peoples and we go on some of that journey, please to goodness, together.

yn Saesneg Ar ran pobl Iwerddon a chan ddiolch o galon i bob un ohonoch am eich caredigrwydd tuag atom, carwn gyflwyno’r rhodd hon i Gynulliad Cenedlaethol Cymru, yn arwydd o hoffter a dymuniadau da pobl Iwerddon. Gobeithiaf y bydd, yn ystod y blynyddoedd i ddod, yn cael ei weld gan Aelodau’r Cynulliad hwn a phobl Cymru yn arwydd o’r parch a’r hoffter mawr a deimlir tuag atoch yn Iwerddon. Fe’i lluniwyd gan Wyddeles ifanc a wnaeth ei gradd Meistr yma yng Nghaerdydd, felly credaf y gallwn ni’n dau gydymfalchïo yn yr athrylith honno. Os Duw a’i mynn, ymhen amser bydd llawer iawn mwy o hanesion am weithiau o athrylith a grëwyd gan Wyddelod a Gwyddelesau a Chymry a Chymryesau wrth inni geisio creu gwell dyfodol i’n pobloedd ni’n dau ac wrth inni gerdded rhywfaint o’r daith honno, byddai’n dda gennyf feddwl, gyda’n gilydd.

Go raibh maith agaibh.

in Welsh Thank you.

Dafydd Elis-Thomas The Presiding Officer spoken in English p. 5

Dafydd Elis-Thomas Y Llywydd siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 5

May I on behalf of the National Assembly reciprocate with a gift of Welsh royal crystal, which is embossed with our new dragon logo, which is moving forward and also looking backwards to its history.

Carwn i ar ran y Cynulliad Cenedlaethol ymateb yn yr un modd drwy roi anrheg o risial brenhinol Cymreig sy’n dwyn logo newydd y Cynulliad, sef draig sy’n symud ymlaen wrth edrych yn ôl ar ei hanes.

Arlywydd Iwerddon The President of Ireland spoken in English p. 5

Arlywydd Iwerddon The President of Ireland siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 5

On account of which I wore red. Thank you very much indeed.

Oherwydd hynny y bu imi wisgo coch. Diolch yn fawr iawn i chi.

Ethol i Bwyllgorau

Elections to Committees

John Marek The Deputy Presiding Officer spoken in English p. 6

John Marek Y Dirprwy Lywydd siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 6

Under Standing Order No. 8.4A, I seek the Assembly’s permission to vote on both motions together. Does any Member object? I see an objection. Therefore, one Member from each party may speak, briefly, on each motion, and the motions will be voted upon separately.

O dan Reol Sefydlog Rhif 8.4A, ceisiaf ganiatâd y Cynulliad i bleidleisio ar y ddau gynnig gyda’i gilydd. A oes unrhyw Aelod sy’n gwrthwynebu? Gwelaf fod gwrthwynebiad. Gan hynny, caiff un Aelod o bob plaid siarad, yn fyr, ar y ddau gynnig, a phleidleisir ar y cynigion ar wahân.

Carwyn Jones The Business Minister spoken in English p. 6

Carwyn Jones Y Trefnydd siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 6

I propose that

Cynigiaf fod

Carwyn Jones The Business Minister (continued) spoken in English p. 6

Carwyn Jones Y Trefnydd (parhad) siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 6

I propose that

Cynigiaf fod

Jonathan Morgan spoken in English p. 6

Jonathan Morgan siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 6

We will oppose these motions. That does not mean that we do not hold both candidates in high regard, but we are currently in dispute with the Government concerning our representation on Committees. The Business Minister has not consulted adequately on these appointments and we cannot support the Government when it does not recognise our own rights vis-à-vis Committee membership.

Byddwn yn gwrthwynebu’r cynigion hyn. Nid yw hynny’n golygu nad ydym yn fawr ein parch tuag at y ddau ymgeisydd, ond yr ydym mewn anghydfod gyda’r Llywodraeth ar hyn o bryd ynghylch ein cynrychiolaeth ar Bwyllgorau. Nid yw’r Trefnydd wedi ymgynghori’n ddigonol ar y penodiadau hyn ac ni allwn gefnogi’r Llywodraeth pan nad yw’n cydnabod ein hawliau ni o ran aelodaeth o Bwyllgorau.

Rhodri Glyn Thomas siaradwyd yn Gymraeg t. 6

Rhodri Glyn Thomas spoken in Welsh p. 6

Bydd Plaid Cymru hefyd yn gwrthwynebu’r cynigion hyn, nid am ein bod yn gwrthwynebu’r ddau enwebiad, ond oherwydd y teimlwn na ddylid gosod cadeiryddiaeth y ddau Bwyllgor yn nwylo’r Llywodraeth. Mae’r naill Bwyllgor a’r llall yn ymdrin â materion pwysig, ac mae’r hyn a gyflanwir gan y Llywodraeth yng nghyd-destun y materion hyn yn haeddu craffu llawn. Fel rhan o system lle mae cadeiryddiaeth y ddau Bwyllgor yn nwylo’r Llywodraeth, nid ydym yn hyderus y bydd y craffu hwnnw yn digwydd. Byddwn yn gwrthwynebu’r cynigion hyn.

Plaid Cymru will also oppose these motions, not because we object to the two nominations, but because we object to both Committee Chairs being placed in the Government’s hands. Both Committees deal with important issues, and what the Government does in relation to these issues deserves full scrutiny. Under a system where members of the Government chair both Committees, we are not confident that that scrutiny will take place. We will oppose these motions.

Carwyn Jones The Business Minister spoken in English p. 7

Carwyn Jones Y Trefnydd siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 7

There is no point in discussing what Jonathan said. This motion was presented to all parties, and they were given at least 14 days in which to respond. There was no response, and that is why this matter is before the National Assembly. No objections were received.

Nid oes diben trafod yr hyn a ddywedodd Jonathan. Cyflwynwyd y cynnig hwn i’r holl bleidiau, a rhoddwyd o leiaf 14 diwrnod iddynt i ymateb. Ni fu ymateb, a dyna pam y mae’r mater hwn gerbron y Cynulliad Cenedlaethol. Ni dderbyniwyd unrhyw wrthwynebiadau.

Rhodri Glyn Thomas siaradwyd yn Gymraeg t. 7

Rhodri Glyn Thomas spoken in Welsh p. 7

Pwynt o drefn. Nid yw hynny’n wir. Ni chyflwynwyd y cynnig hwn yn swyddogol i grŵp Plaid Cymru. Ni thrafodwyd y mater yn swyddogol mewn unrhyw Bwyllgor arall. Cyhoeddwyd y ffaith bod y Blaid Lafur yn bwriadu gosod enw dau ymgeisydd Llafur gerbron—

Point of order. That is not true. This motion has not been formally presented to the Plaid Cymru group. It has not been discussed officially in any other Committee. It was announced that the Labour Party intended to put two Labour candidates forward—

John Marek The Deputy Presiding Officer spoken in English p. 7

John Marek Y Dirprwy Lywydd siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 7

Order. You have had my indulgence. Some Members would say that you should not have had it.

Trefn. Bûm yn oddefgar tuag atoch. Dywedai rhai Aelodau na ddylaswn fod.

Carwyn Jones spoken in English p. 7

Carwyn Jones siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 7

I request that the division bell be rung.

Gofynnaf am ganu cloch y bleidlais.

John Marek The Deputy Presiding Officer spoken in English p. 7

John Marek Y Dirprwy Lywydd siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 7

A request has been made for the bell to be rung. Under Standing Order No. 6.21, at least three Members must request that the bell be rung. Do three Members support the request? I see that they do. Clerk, please ring the bell.

Gwnaed cais am ganu’r gloch. O dan Reol Sefydlog Rhif 6.21, rhaid i o leiaf dri Aelod wneud cais am ganu’r gloch. A oes tri Aelod sy’n cefnogi’r cais? Gwelaf fod tri yn cefnogi’r cais. Glerc, cenwch y gloch, os gwelwch yn dda.

Cynnig NDM1234 Carwyn Jones t. 7

Motion NDM1234 Carwyn Jones p. 7

DerbyniwydAdopted O blaidFor 31 YmatalAbstain 0 Yn erbynAgainst 23

Derbyniwyd y cynnig.

Motion carried.

Sut y pleidleisiodd yr AelodauHow Members voted
O blaidFor (31)
  • Lorraine Barrett
  • Mick Bates
  • Peter Black
  • Eleanor Burnham
  • Christine Chapman
  • Jane Davidson
  • Andrew Davies
  • Ron Davies
  • Richard Edwards
  • Sue Essex
  • Delyth Evans
  • Michael German
  • Janice Gregory
  • John Griffiths
  • Christine Gwyther
  • Alison Halford
  • Edwina Hart
  • Jane Hutt
  • Ann Jones
  • Carwyn Jones
  • Peter Law
  • Huw Lewis
  • Val Lloyd
  • Tom Middlehurst
  • Rhodri Morgan
  • Lynne Neagle
  • Alun Pugh
  • Jenny Randerson
  • Karen Sinclair
  • Gwenda Thomas
  • Kirsty Williams
Yn erbynAgainst (23)
  • Nick Bourne
  • Alun Cairns
  • Cynog Dafis
  • David Davies
  • Geraint Davies
  • Glyn Davies
  • William Graham
  • Brian Hancock
  • Pauline Jarman
  • David Ian Jones
  • Elin Jones
  • Gareth Jones
  • Helen Mary Jones
  • Ieuan Wyn Jones
  • David Lloyd
  • David Melding
  • Jonathan Morgan
  • Peter Rogers
  • Janet Ryder
  • Owen John Thomas
  • Rhodri Glyn Thomas
  • Dafydd Wigley
  • Phil Williams

Daeth y Llywydd i’r Gadair am 2.09 p.m.

The Presiding Officer took the Chair at 2.09 p.m.

Cynnig NDM1233 Carwyn Jones t. 8

Motion NDM1233 Carwyn Jones p. 8

DerbyniwydAdopted O blaidFor 32 YmatalAbstain 0 Yn erbynAgainst 23

Derbyniwyd y cynnig.

Motion carried.

Sut y pleidleisiodd yr AelodauHow Members voted
O blaidFor (32)
  • Lorraine Barrett
  • Mick Bates
  • Peter Black
  • Eleanor Burnham
  • Christine Chapman
  • Jane Davidson
  • Andrew Davies
  • Ron Davies
  • Richard Edwards
  • Sue Essex
  • Delyth Evans
  • Michael German
  • Brian Gibbons
  • Janice Gregory
  • John Griffiths
  • Christine Gwyther
  • Alison Halford
  • Edwina Hart
  • Jane Hutt
  • Ann Jones
  • Carwyn Jones
  • Peter Law
  • Huw Lewis
  • Val Lloyd
  • Tom Middlehurst
  • Rhodri Morgan
  • Lynne Neagle
  • Alun Pugh
  • Jenny Randerson
  • Karen Sinclair
  • Gwenda Thomas
  • Kirsty Williams
Yn erbynAgainst (23)
  • Nick Bourne
  • Alun Cairns
  • Cynog Dafis
  • David Davies
  • Geraint Davies
  • Glyn Davies
  • William Graham
  • Brian Hancock
  • Pauline Jarman
  • David Ian Jones
  • Elin Jones
  • Gareth Jones
  • Helen Mary Jones
  • Ieuan Wyn Jones
  • David Lloyd
  • David Melding
  • Jonathan Morgan
  • Peter Rogers
  • Janet Ryder
  • Owen John Thomas
  • Rhodri Glyn Thomas
  • Dafydd Wigley
  • Phil Williams

Cwestiynau i’r Prif Weinidog

Questions to the First Minister

Dafydd Elis-Thomas Y Llywydd siaradwyd yn Gymraeg t. 9

Dafydd Elis-Thomas The Presiding Officer spoken in Welsh p. 9

Tynnwyd cwestiwn 1 (OAQ20721) yn ôl.

Question 1 (OAQ20721) has been withdrawn.

Trosglwyddo Swyddogaethau

Transfer of Functions

Q2 Ieuan Wyn Jones The Leader of the Opposition spoken in English p. 9

C2 Ieuan Wyn Jones Arweinydd yr Wrthblaid siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 9

Will the First Minister make a statement on recent discussions between himself, the Secretary of State for Wales and the UK Government regarding the further transfer of functions from Westminster to the National Assembly? (OAQ20749)

A wnaiff y Prif Weinidog ddatganiad ar drafodaethau y mae wedi eu cael yn ddiweddar gydag Ysgrifennydd Gwladol Cymru a Llywodraeth y DU ynghylch trosglwyddo mwy o swyddogaethau o San Steffan i’r Cynulliad Cenedlaethol? (OAQ20749)

Rhodri Morgan The First Minister spoken in English p. 9

Rhodri Morgan Y Prif Weinidog siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 9

I will list three of our requests for the transfer of functions. First is the Assembly’s wish for the transfer of responsibility for decisions under section 36 and section 37 of the Electricity Act 1989, which cover consents for all forms of electricity generation over 50 MW installed capacity. Second is the transfer of functions relating to animal health. Thirdly, as Members are probably aware, in our submission to the Bain commission we asked for the transfer of the responsibility for policy and capital funding for the fire service, to be on a par with the Scottish Parliament’s powers.

Fe restraf dri o’n ceisiadau am drosglwyddo swyddogaethau. Y cyntaf yw dymuniad y Cynulliad i weld trosglwyddo cyfrifoldeb dros benderfyniadau o dan adran 36 ac adran 37 o Ddeddf Trydan 1989, sy’n ymdrin â chaniatâd am bob math o gynhyrchu trydan lle y mae cynhwysedd y peirianwaith dros 50 MW. Yr ail yw trosglwyddo swyddogaethau sy’n ymwneud ag iechyd anifeiliaid. Yn drydydd, fel y gŵyr Aelodau yn ôl pob tebyg, yn ein cyflwyniad i gomisiwn Bain bu inni ofyn am drosglwyddo’r cyfrifodeb dros bolisi a chyllido cyfalaf y gwasanaeth tân, er mwyn cael yr un pwerau â Senedd yr Alban.

Ieuan Wyn Jones spoken in English p. 9

Ieuan Wyn Jones siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 9

Those details are useful in themselves, First Minister, but what about the big picture? What do you hope will be the outcome of the Richard commission? On Sunday, we listened with great interest to your comments on the Richard commission on the programme ‘On The Record’. This is what you said:

Mae’r manylion hynny’n ddefnyddiol ynddynt eu hun, Brif Weinidog, ond beth am y darlun cyfan? Beth yr ydych yn gobeithio fydd canlyniad comisiwn Richard? Ar ddydd Sul, gwnaethom wrando gyda diddordeb mawr ar eich sylwadau am gomisiwn Richard ar y rhaglen ‘On The Record’. Dyma a ddywedasoch:

‘it’s a matter really for each party to pick that up in any way that they want.’

mewn gwirionedd mae’n fater y dylai pob plaid ei godi mewn unrhyw fodd a ddymuna.

You said that parties will either reject or accept part or all of the Richard commission’s recommendations and that, as a natural consequence, each party will then consider what to include in their manifestos for the next general election.

Dywedasoch y bydd pleidiau un ai’n gwrthod neu’n derbyn rhan neu’r cyfan o argymhellion comisiwn Richard ac, o ganlyniad naturiol i hynny, y bydd pob plaid yn ystyried wedyn beth i’w gynnwys yn ei maniffesto ar gyfer yr etholiad cyffredinol nesaf.

What does that mean? That is not rocket science; it is gobbledegook. Frankly, that is not classic Labour, it is slapstick Labour. Where do you stand? Can you give us a simple, yes or no answer to the question, without messing around or rocket science: will you implement the Richard commission recommendations in full?

Beth y mae hynny’n ei olygu? Nid yw’n ddatganiad athrylithgar; rwtsh ydyw. A dweud y gwir, nid Llafur clasurol mo hynny, ond Llafur slapstic. Beth yw eich barn am hyn? A allwch chi roi ie neu na syml yn ateb i’r cwestiwn, heb lolian neu ddefnyddio ffeithiau astrus: a wnewch chi weithredu argymhellion comisiwn Richard yn llawn?

Rhodri Morgan The First Minister spoken in English p. 10

Rhodri Morgan Y Prif Weinidog siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 10

It means exactly what it says, Ieuan. I carefully set out the timing and I will set it out again now. When the Richard commission was announced as part of the partnership agreement, and when it was then brought into existence, it was clear that it could not draw conclusions until it completed its work, some months after the end of the first full Assembly term. That was made clear from the beginning, back in October 2001 when we announced the setting up of the commission. It is for each party to decide its policy in response to the Richard commission’s recommendations after the Assembly has considered them. However, you knew when you stood for election to the Assembly, Ieuan, that it would not have the power to change its own constitutional make-up; that is a matter for the Westminster Government. It is therefore perfectly proper—I cannot think of an alternative—for party manifestos at the next general election to include proposals for changing the Assembly’s powers when such proposals have been democratically discussed. Although we can discuss this in the Assembly, we cannot change our own powers. You knew that before you stood for election, as did I. It is therefore perfectly logical for parties, with their own internal democracies, to decide how many of the Richard commission’s recommendations—if it recommends changing the Assembly’s powers—to include in manifestos.

Mae’n golygu’n union yr hyn a ddywed, Ieuan. Nodais yr amseru’n ofalus ac fe’i nodaf eto. Pan gyhoeddwyd comisiwn Richard fel rhan o’r cytundeb partneriaeth, a phan grëwyd ef, yr oedd yn amlwg na allai ddod i gasgliadau nes ei fod wedi cwblhau ei waith, rai misoedd ar ôl diwedd tymor llawn cyntaf y Cynulliad. Eglurwyd hynny o’r dechrau, yn ôl yn Hydref 2001 pan gyhoeddwyd sefydlu’r comisiwn. Mater i bob plaid yw penderfynu ar ei pholisi mewn ymateb i argymhellion comisiwn Richard wedi i’r Cynulliad eu hystyried. Fodd bynnag, gwyddech pan wnaethoch sefyll i gael eich ethol i’r Cynulliad, Ieuan, na fyddai ganddo’r pŵer i newid ei natur gyfansoddiadol ei hun; mae hynny’n fater i Lywodraeth San Steffan. Mae’n gwbl briodol felly—ni allaf feddwl am ddewis arall—i faniffestos pleidiau ar gyfer yr etholiad cyffredinol nesaf gynnwys cynigion i newid pwerau’r Cynulliad pan fydd cynigion o’r fath wedi’u trafod yn ddemocrataidd. Er y gallwn drafod hyn yn y Cynulliad, ni allwn newid ein pwerau. Yr oeddem ni’n dau yn gwybod hynny cyn sefyll i gael ein hethol. Gan hynny, mae’n gwbl resymegol i bleidiau, gyda’u democratiaeth fewnol eu hun, benderfynu faint o argymhellion comisiwn Richard—os yw’n argymell newid pwerau’r Cynulliad—i’w cynnwys yn eu maniffestos.

Ieuan Wyn Jones siaradwyd yn Gymraeg t. 10

Ieuan Wyn Jones spoken in Welsh p. 10

Fel ar gynifer o faterion eraill, yr ydych yn eistedd ar ben clawdd yn achos comisiwn Richard. Beth bynnag yw’r pwnc—Irac, diffoddwyr tân, clwy’r traed a’r genau neu gomisiwn Richard—yr ydych yn eistedd ar ben clawdd. Pryd y dywedwch wrthym beth yw eich safbwynt ar y materion hyn?

As with so many other matters, you are sitting on the fence with regard to the Richard commission. Whatever the subject—Iraq, the firefighters, foot and mouth disease or the Richard commission—you sit on the fence. When will you inform us of your position on these issues?

Rhodri Morgan Y Prif Weinidog siaradwyd yn Gymraeg t. 10

Rhodri Morgan The First Minister spoken in Welsh p. 10

Yr wyf wedi dweud yn gyson ei bod yn fwy gweddus imi fod ymhlith yr olaf yng Nghymru i fynegi barn gerbron comisiwn Richard, gan mai’r Llywodraeth a arweinir gennyf a benododd y comisiwn. Pe bawn yn mynegi barn yn gryf ynglŷn â’r pynciau y mae’n eu hystyried, byddai pawb—gan eich cynnwys chi mwy na thebyg—yn cwyno fy mod yn gwasgu ar y comisiwn. Yr wyf am roi rhyddid i’r comisiwn ddychwelyd atom ni, neu’n holynwyr, tua mis Hydref y flwyddyn nesaf, i’n hysbysu ynglŷn â’r goleuni y gall ei daflu ar y pynciau dan ystyriaeth. Yna, bydd yn rhaid i’r Cynulliad drafod y mater i weld a gawn gytundeb trawsbleidiol, a bydd yr holl bleidiau yn ystyried eu hymateb. Fodd bynnag, fi a ddylai fod yr olaf i roi ei farn, neu bydd pobl yn fy nghyhuddo o wasgu ar y comisiwn cyn iddo ddechrau ar ei waith.

I have consistently said that it is more fitting for me to be among the last in Wales to express my opinions before the Richard commission, as it was appointed by the Government that I lead. Were I to express a firm opinion on the in question, everyone—including you in all probability—would complain that I was bringing pressure to bear on the commission. I want to give the commission the freedom to return to us, or our successors, around October next year, and tell us what light it can shed on the subjects under consideration. The Assembly must then discuss the matter to see if we can reach cross-party agreement, and all parties will consider their responses. However, I should be the last to express an opinion, or people will accuse me of bringing pressure to bear on the commission before it has commenced its work.

John Griffiths spoken in English p. 11

John Griffiths siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 11

With regard to discussions with the Secretary of State for Wales and the UK Government on the fire service and the current dispute, do you agree that it is a time for cool heads on all sides? Also, will you urge all sides to allow the Advisory, Conciliation and Arbitration Service to move matters, without unhelpful rhetoric, towards a settlement based on a deserved, substantial and phased pay increase and modernisation of firefighters’ working practices?

Gyda golwg ar drafodaethau gydag Ysgrifennydd Gwladol Cymru a Llywodraeth y DU ar y gwasanaeth tân a’r anghydfod presennol, a ydych yn cytuno ei bod yn bryd i bobl bwyllo ar bob ochr? Hefyd, a wnewch chi bwyso ar bob ochr i adael i’r Gwasanaeth Ymgynghorol, Cymodi a Chymrodeddu symud pethau yn eu blaen, heb rethreg ddi-fudd, tuag at setliad sy’n seiliedig ar godiad tâl graddol, sylweddol a haeddiannol ynghyd â moderneiddio arferion gwaith y diffoddwyr tân?

Rhodri Morgan The First Minister spoken in English p. 11

Rhodri Morgan Y Prif Weinidog siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 11

Indeed; I am pleased that the Fire Brigades Union has suspended the eight-day strike scheduled to begin tomorrow and has referred the matter to ACAS for preliminary discussions. I sincerely hope that ACAS can come up with some helpful suggestions to bring the two sides closer together and provide what I referred to last week as a proper settlement.

Yn wir; yr wyf yn falch bod Undeb y Brigadau Tân wedi atal y streic wyth niwrnod a amserlennwyd i ddechrau yfory a’i fod wedi cyfeirio’r mater i ACAS ar gyfer trafodaethau rhagarweiniol. Mawr obeithiaf y bydd y ACAS yn gallu meddwl am rai awgrymiadau buddiol i ddod â’r ddwy ochr yn nes at ei gilydd a darparu’r hyn a elwais yr wythnos diwethaf yn setliad priodol.

William Graham spoken in English p. 11

William Graham siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 11

Do you not agree that the only way to ensure that the National Assembly retains only its present powers is to vote Conservative at the next Assembly elections, as recommended by the Daily Mirror?

Oni chytunwch mai’r unig fodd i sicrhau bod y Cynulliad Cenedlaethol ond yn cadw ei bwerau presennol yw pleidleisio dros y Ceidwadwyr yn etholiadau nesaf y Cynulliad, fel y mae’r Daily Mirror yn argymell?

Rhodri Morgan The First Minister spoken in English p. 12

Rhodri Morgan Y Prif Weinidog siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 12

That was a good plug for your party. You are right to plug it, before it goes down the pan—that was a good attempt. Since the advent of the secret ballot 140 years ago, your party has never won a majority in Wales; I hope that that will be the case for the next 140 years.

Yr oedd honno’n hysbyseb dda i’ch plaid. Mae’n iawn ichi wneud hynny, cyn iddi fynd i ebargofiant—yr oedd honno’n ymgais dda. Ers dyfodiad y bleidlais gudd 140 mlynedd yn ôl, nid yw’ch plaid erioed wedi ennill mwyafrif yng Nghymru; gobeithiaf mai felly y bydd am y 140 mlynedd nesaf.

Ymgynghorwyr y Llywodraeth

Government Advisers

C3 Owen John Thomas siaradwyd yn Gymraeg t. 12

Q3 Owen John Thomas spoken in Welsh p. 12

Faint o arian gafodd ei wario gan Lywodraeth y Cynulliad ar ymgynghorwyr yn ystod y flwyddyn? (OAQ20724)

How much money was spent by the Assembly Government during the last year on advisers? (OAQ20724)

Rhodri Morgan Y Prif Weinidog siaradwyd yn Gymraeg t. 12

Rhodri Morgan The First Minister spoken in Welsh p. 12

Yr oedd cyfanswm costau cyflogi’r chwe ymgynghorydd arbenigol—gan gynnwys tâl—ychydig dros £274,000 yn y flwyddyn ariannol ddiwethaf.

The total cost of employing the six special advisers—including salaries—was just over £247,000 in the last financial year.

Owen John Thomas siaradwyd yn Gymraeg t. 12

Owen John Thomas spoken in Welsh p. 12

O wrando ar eich sylwadau ar y teledu ddydd Sul, mae lle i gredu bod llawer o wariant eich Llywodraeth yn cael ei wastraffu gan nad ydych yn defnyddio cyngor eich arbenigwyr wrth lunio polisi nac wrth roi arweiniad. Onid pwrpas arweinydd yw arwain yn hytrach na llenwi pocedi ymgynghorwyr anetholedig? A allwch enwi un polisi newydd a ddeilliodd o gyngor eich ymgynghorwyr?

Listening to your comments on television on Sunday, there is room to believe that much of your Government’s spending is being wasted because you do not listen to your advisers’ advice in formulating policy or providing guidance. Is it not a leader’s role to lead rather than to fill the pockets of unelected advisers? Can you name a single new policy that was the result of the advice of your advisers?

Rhodri Morgan Y Prif Weinidog siaradwyd yn Gymraeg t. 12

Rhodri Morgan The First Minister spoken in Welsh p. 12

Dewiswyd ein hymgynghorwyr mewn modd unigryw a blaengar o’i gymharu â sut y dewiswyd ymgynghorwyr arbenigol mewn rhannau eraill o Brydain. Yr ydym yn haeddu tipyn o glod oddi wrth Owen John am hynny, er ei bod yn ymddangos ei fod wedi codi o ochr anghywir y gwely y bore yma. Mae effeithiolrwydd ein hymgynghorwyr yn fater o farn, ond yr wyf yn hyderus eu bod yn bobl ddisglair sydd yn rhoi cyngor da yr ydym yn ei dderbyn.

Our advisers were chosen in a unique and progressive way compared with how other special advisers in other parts of Britain were chosen. We deserve praise from Owen John for that, although he seems to have got out of bed on the wrong side this morning. The effectiveness of our advisers is a matter of opinion, but I am confident that they are capable people who give good advice, which we follow.

Nick Bourne The Leader of the Welsh Conservatives spoken in English p. 12

Nick Bourne Arweinydd Ceidwadwyr Cymru siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 12

There has been a great growth in spending on special advisers, as even the Prime Minister has recognised; he intends to reduce the number of special advisers. Do you have similar plans, or given that you are now entrusting them with the additional role of seeking to take care of the coalition, will you need to increase them?

Bu cynnydd mawr yn y gwariant ar ymgynghorwyr arbennig, fel y cydnabu’r Prif Weinidog hyd yn oed; mae’n bwriadu lleihau nifer yr ymgynghorwyr arbennig. A oes gennych chi gynlluniau tebyg neu, gan eich bod bellach yn ymddiried iddynt y rôl ychwanegol o geisio gofalu am y glymblaid, a fydd angen ichi gynyddu eu nifer?

Rhodri Morgan The First Minister spoken in English p. 13

Rhodri Morgan Y Prif Weinidog siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 13

The number of advisers was increased from four to six when the coalition was set up. There are no further proposals to increase that number. I noted your remarks about Tony Blair’s comments on the number of special advisers in the Westminster Government. The number has risen, as it did during 18 years of Conservative Government—it does tend to rise. However, perhaps the time has now come to put a cap on that number. We have no proposals for any further increases.

Codwyd nifer yr ymgynghorwyr o bedwar i chwech pan sefydlwyd y glymblaid. Nid oes cynigion pellach i gynyddu’r nifer hwnnw. Nodais eich geiriau am sylwadau Tony Blair am y nifer o ymgynghorwyr arbennig yn Llywodraeth San Steffan. Mae’r nifer wedi codi, fel y gwnaeth yn ystod y 18 mlynedd o Lywodraeth Geidwadol—mae’n dueddol i godi. Serch hynny, efallai ei bod yn bryd inni bellach gapio’r nifer hwnnw. Nid oes gennym unrhyw gynigion am unrhyw gynnydd pellach.

Cynllun Tocynnau Bws am Ddim

Free Bus Pass scheme

Q4 Janet Ryder spoken in English p. 13

C4 Janet Ryder siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 13

Will the First Minister make a statement on the funding of the free bus pass scheme in Wales? (OAQ20714)

A wnaiff y Prif Weinidog ddatganiad ar gyllido’r cynllun tocynnau bws am ddim yng Nghymru? (OAQ20714)

Rhodri Morgan The First Minister spoken in English p. 13

Rhodri Morgan Y Prif Weinidog siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 13

Guaranteeing free local bus travel for pensioners and disabled persons has been one of the Welsh Assembly Government’s most popular and successful initiatives. In the current financial year we are providing more than £24 million to local authorities to meet the costs in full as they were identified by the Welsh Local Government Association. Provision will rise to £33 million when men aged between 60 and 64 become eligible on 1 April, on which point I declare an interest.

Gwarantu teithio am ddim ar fysiau lleol i bensiynwyr a phobl anabl fu un o fentrau mwyaf poblogaidd a llwyddiannus Llywodraeth Cynulliad Cymru. Yn y flwyddyn ariannol hon yr ydym yn rhoi mwy na £24 miliwn i awdurdodau lleol i dalu’n llawn am y costau fel y’u nodwyd gan Gymdeithas Llywodraeth Leol Cymru. Bydd y ddarpariaeth yn codi i £33 miliwn pan fydd dynion rhwng 60 a 64 oed yn dod yn gymwys ar 1 Ebrill, a datganaf fuddiant ar y pwynt hwnnw.

Janet Ryder spoken in English p. 13

Janet Ryder siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 13

Implementing the free bus pass scheme has been a phenomenal administrative effort by local government, which has incurred many extra costs, such as staff, rooms for taking and developing photographs and ongoing costs such as replacing lost passes. I understand that in Cardiff alone, at least 10 passes are lost and need to be replaced every week. Can you give an undertaking that you are fully funding this scheme, including all of those hidden administrative costs?

Mae gweithredu’r cynllun tocynnau bws am ddim wedi golygu ymdrech weinyddol aruthrol gan lywodraeth leol, ac mae hynny wedi tynnu llawer o gostau ychwanegol, fel y rhai ar gyfer staff, ystafelloedd ar gyfer tynnu a datblygu lluniau a chostau parhaus fel rhoi tocynnau yn lle rhai a gollwyd. Deallaf fod o leiaf 10 tocyn yn cael eu colli a’u darparu o’r newydd yng Nghaerdydd yn unig bob wythnos. A allwch roi ymrwymiad eich bod yn llawn gyllido’r cynllun hwn, gan gynnwys y cwbl o’r costau gweinyddol cudd hynny?

Rhodri Morgan The First Minister spoken in English p. 13

Rhodri Morgan Y Prif Weinidog siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 13

Yes. The WLGA agreed the distribution formula with us through the distribution sub-group. The general indication now, although it is still early, is that rural authorities have been adequately resourced to meet their obligations to operators under the scheme while some urban authorities believe that they need a larger share. We will explore the amounts with Welsh local authorities, but we have yet to be convinced on some of the details.

Gallaf. Cymdeithas Llywodraeth Leol Cymru a gytunodd ar y fformiwla ddosbarthu gyda ni drwy’r is-grŵp dosbarthu. Yr hyn a welir yn gyffredinol yn awr, er ei bod yn gynnar o hyd, yw bod awdurdodau gwledig wedi’u cyllido’n ddigonol i gyflawni eu hymrwymiadau i weithredwyr o dan y cynllun tra bo rhai awdurdodau trefol yn credu bod arnynt angen cyfran fwy. Gwnawn ymchwilio i’r symiau gydag awdurdodau lleol Cymru, ond nid ydym wedi cael ein hargyhoeddi eto ar rai o’r manylion.

Kirsty Williams spoken in English p. 14

Kirsty Williams siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 14

While the scheme is welcome, large parts of my constituency have little or no public transport, so will you consider extending the free bus pass scheme for use on community transport projects such as vital dial-a-ride services that provide transport for elderly and disabled people?

Er bod y cynllun i’w groesawu, mae rhannau helaeth o’m hetholaeth heb y nesaf peth i ddim o drafnidiaeth gyhoeddus, felly a wnewch ystyried ehangu’r cynllun tocynnau bws am ddim i’w ddefnyddio mewn prosiectau trafnidiaeth gymunedol fel y gwasanaethau dial-a-ride sy’n darparu trafnidiaeth ar gyfer pobl oedrannus ac anabl?

Rhodri Morgan The First Minister spoken in English p. 14

Rhodri Morgan Y Prif Weinidog siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 14

We support in principle the extension of free travel by pensioners and disabled persons on community transport, but the practical and financial implications of extending free travel to community transport need to be examined closely. Officials are taking this forward now in partnership with the Community Transport Association. We expect that a report will be submitted to Sue Essex, the Minister for Environment, next June.

Yr ydym yn gefnogol mewn egwyddor i ehangu teithio am ddim i gynnwys pensiynwyr a phobl anabl mewn trafnidiaeth gymunedol, ond rhaid ymchwilio’n fanwl i oblygiadau ymarferol ac ariannol ehangu teithio am ddim i gynnwys trafnidiaeth gymunedol. Mae swyddogion yn cymryd camau ar hyn yn awr ar y cyd â’r Gymdeithas Trafnidiaeth Gymunedol. Yr ydym yn disgwyl y caiff adroddiad ei gyflwyno i Sue Essex, y Gweinidog dros yr Amgylchedd, fis Mehefin nesaf.

David Davies spoken in English p. 14

David Davies siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 14

This policy is often flagged up as one of the Assembly’s great successes despite the fact that such schemes exist in England without the need for an Assembly to set them up. Bearing that in mind, are you aware of the fact that there is a huge backlog of people waiting for their passes to arrive? Are you aware that the firm in Hull in northern England which processes the application forms is forever using the excuse that they have been lost in the post, and do you realise that some people have been waiting for more than six months for their passes to arrive? It is a shambles, is it not?

Tynnir sylw’n aml at y polisi hwn fel un o lwyddiannau mawr y Cynulliad er gwaethaf y ffaith bod cynlluniau o’r fath yn bodoli yn Lloegr heb yr angen am Gynulliad i’w sefydlu. Gan gofio hynny, a ydych yn ymwybodol bod ôl-groniad anferth o bobl yn disgwyl i’w tocynnau gyrraedd? A ydych yn ymwybodol bod y cwmni yn Hull yng ngogledd Lloegr sy’n prosesu’r ffurflenni cais byth a hefyd yn defnyddio’r esgus eu bod ar goll yn y post, ac a ydych yn sylweddoli bod rhai pobl yn aros ers dros chwe mis i’w tocynnau gyrraedd? Mae’n llanastr, onid yw?

Rhodri Morgan The First Minister spoken in English p. 14

Rhodri Morgan Y Prif Weinidog siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 14

Not at all. Your obsession with the idea that things are always better on the English side of the border serves you and your party ill, David. It is true that there are schemes here and there in England but they are patchy because they are being taken forward on the initiative of individual local authorities. There is no England-wide scheme that can be compared to the Wales-wide scheme that we have introduced over the past year or so. On your point about slowness of administration, we have all heard the occasional complaint about the length of time it takes to process applications, but in general authorities have been sympathetic to people’s ability to travel pending the arrival of their passes. I have heard a few complaints about the slow application process, but I believe that this has been a great success. I realise that you are allergic to the success of this Government or any other institution based in Wales.

Dim o gwbl. Mae’ch obsesiwn â’r syniad bod pethau bob amser yn well ar ochr Lloegr i’r ffin yn gwneud drwg i chi a’ch plaid, David. Mae’n wir bod cynlluniau yma ac acw yn Lloegr ond maent yn fylchog am eu bod yn cael eu datblygu ar fenter awdurdodau lleol unigol. Nid oes cynllun ledled Lloegr y gellir ei gymharu â’r un ledled Cymru a gyflwynasom dros y flwyddyn ddiwethaf fwy neu lai. Ar y pwynt a wnaethoch am weinyddu araf, yr ydym oll wedi clywed ambell gŵyn am yr amser a gymer i brosesu ceisiadau, ond at ei gilydd bu’r awdurdodau’n llawn cydymdeimlad at alluogi pobl i deithio wrth iddynt ddisgwyl i’w tocynnau gyrraedd. Clywais ychydig o gwynion am y broses ymgeisio araf, ond credaf i hyn fod yn llwyddiant mawr. Sylweddolaf na allwch ddioddef llwyddiant y Llywodraeth hon neu unrhyw sefydliad arall sydd wedi’i leoli yng Nghymru.

Cyllido Gofal Iechyd yng Nghaerfyrddin

Financing Healthcare in Carmarthen

Q5 Helen Mary Jones spoken in English p. 15

C5 Helen Mary Jones siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 15

What discussions has the First Minister had with the Minister for Health and Social Services about the financing of healthcare in Carmarthen? (OAQ20716)

Pa drafodaethau y mae’r Prif Weinidog wedi’u cael gyda’r Gweinidog Iechyd ynghylch cyllido gofal iechyd yng Nghaerfyrddin? (OAQ20716)

Rhodri Morgan The First Minister spoken in English p. 15

Rhodri Morgan Y Prif Weinidog siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 15

The final budget for the year beginning on 1 April 2003 was agreed on 6 November. Decisions on how this funding will be allocated to local health boards have not yet been made; discussions are ongoing. It is intended that the draft allocation will be sent to all health authorities for financial verification by Christmas. As regards Carmarthen as a key part of the Dyfed Powys health authority area, Helen Mary will be aware that £23.7 million of overhanging debt from the period up to 1 April 2001 will be written off on 31 March 2003.

Cytunwyd ar 6 Tachwedd ar y gyllideb derfynol am y flwyddyn sy’n dechrau ar 1 Ebrill 2003. Ni phenderfynwyd eto ar y modd i ddyrannu’r cyllid hwn i fyrddau iechyd lleol; mae trafodaethau’n mynd rhagddynt. Y bwriad yw y caiff y dyraniad drafft ei anfon i’r holl awdurdodau iechyd i’w wirio’n ariannol erbyn y Nadolig. Ynghylch Caerfyrddin, sy’n rhan allweddol o ardal awdurdod iechyd Dyfed Powys, bydd Helen Mary yn ymwybodol y caiff £23.7 miliwn o ddyled grog o’r cyfnod hyd at 1 Ebrill 2001 ei ddileu ar 31 Mawrth 2003.

Helen Mary Jones spoken in English p. 15

Helen Mary Jones siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 15

The agreement to write off the historic debt is welcome and no-one would disagree with that. You should be aware by now, if you were not before, that there are serious concerns about whether the basic funding for Carmarthenshire NHS Trust gives it enough resources to meet basic needs, let alone to expand services to meet needs that are not currently being met, such as staffing the Tŷ Bryngwyn hospice, which the Minister for Health and Social Services has promised will eventually happen. Will you work with the Minister to address these concerns in the long term to avoid the build up of debt? Will you also ensure that whatever is done to ensure fiscal rectitude does not involve cutting or failing to develop front-line services?

Mae’r cytundeb i ddileu’r ddyled hanesyddol i’w groesawu ac ni fyddai neb yn anghytuno â hynny. Dylech fod yn ymwybodol erbyn hyn, os nad oeddech o’r blaen, fod pryderon mawr ynghylch a yw’r cyllid sylfaenol i Ymddiriedolaeth GIG Sir Gaerfyrddin yn rhoi digon o adnoddau iddi ddiwallu anghenion sylfaenol, heb sôn am ehangu gwasanaethau i fodloni anghenion nad ydynt yn cael eu diwallu ar hyn o bryd, fel staffio hosbis Tŷ Bryngwyn, y mae’r Gweinidog dros Iechyd a Gwasanaethau Cymdeithasol wedi addo y bydd yn digwydd yn y pen draw. A wnewch weithio gyda’r Gweinidog i ymateb i’r pryderon hyn yn y tymor hir fel na fydd dyled yn cronni? A wnewch sicrhau hefyd na fydd beth bynnag a wneir i sicrhau uniondeb cyllidol yn golygu cwtogi neu fethu â datblygu gwasanaethau rheng flaen?

Rhodri Morgan The First Minister spoken in English p. 16

Rhodri Morgan Y Prif Weinidog siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 16

You are right to draw attention to the fact that in July, Jane Hutt, the Minister for Health and Social Services announced a contribution of £70,000 from the Assembly Government to enable the opening of the six bed in-patient facility at the Tŷ Bryngwyn hospice. The Director of NHS Wales sent a letter on 24 September instructing the health authority and the trust to find the difference between that recurrent £70,000, which we will provide, and the full running costs, and to make this available in all future years.

Mae’n briodol eich bod yn tynnu sylw at y ffaith bod Jane Hutt, y Gweinidog dros Iechyd a Gwasanaethau Cymdeithasol, wedi cyhoeddi cyfraniad o £70,000 yng Ngorffennaf oddi wrth Lywodraeth y Cynulliad i hwyluso agor y cyfleuster cleifion mewnol chwe gwely yn hosbis Tŷ Bryngwyn. Anfonodd Cyfarwyddwr GIG Cymru lythyr ar 24 Medi gan gyfarwyddo’r awdurdod iechyd a’r ymddiriedolaeth i ddod o hyd i’r gwahaniaeth rhwng y £70,000 rheolaidd, a ddarparwn ni, a’r costau rhedeg llawn, ac i’w ddarparu ym mhob blwyddyn yn y dyfodol.

Anghenion Economaidd ac Anghenion Addysgol

Economic Needs and Educational Needs

Q6 Mick Bates spoken in English p. 16

C6 Mick Bates siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 16

In what ways is the First Minister’s Government integrating the economic needs of Wales with its educational needs? (OAQ20728)

Ym mha ffyrdd y mae llywodraeth y Prif Weinidog yn integreiddio anghenion economaidd Cymru gyda’i hanghenion addysgol? (OAQ20728)

Rhodri Morgan The First Minister spoken in English p. 16

Rhodri Morgan Y Prif Weinidog siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 16

This was the prime subject for discussion at the Business Partnership Council meeting last Friday. We discussed skills issues and the intersection between the needs of business and the provision of lifelong education by the providers in Wales. It was an extremely good discussion. This is pertinent on the day that the President of Ireland visits us, because it is often said that Ireland is the only country that has accomplished the feat of improving the quality of jobs available in the economy at the same time as improving the skills of those emerging from the education system to benefit from the enhanced quality of the jobs. It is not easy: you cannot normally train people for higher skills on spec in case you are educating and training them for export, which is a problem; on the other hand, it is not easy to attract new jobs if you do not have a workforce ready to take on those higher quality jobs. Ireland has done it successfully; because of the accord between CBI Wales and the Wales TUC as evinced at the Business Partnership Council meeting on Friday there is every promise that we have a better chance to do that now in Wales—to pull off the Irish trick, if you like—than ever before.

Hwn oedd y prif bwnc trafod yn y cyfarfod o’r Cyngor Partneriaeth Busnes ddydd Gwener diwethaf. Gwnaethom drafod materion sgiliau a’r croestorri rhwng anghenion busnes a darparu addysg gydol oes gan y darparwyr yng Nghymru. Bu’n drafodaeth dda dros ben. Mae hyn yn berthnasol ar ddiwrnod ymweliad Arlywydd Iwerddon â ni, gan y dywedir yn aml mai Iwerddon yw’r unig wlad a gyflawnodd y gamp o wella ansawdd y swyddi a oedd ar gael yn yr economi ar yr un pryd â gwella sgiliau’r rhai a ddeuai o’r system addysg fel y gallent elwa ar ansawdd gwell y swyddi. Nid yw’n hawdd: fel arfer ni allwch hyfforddi pobl ar gyfer sgiliau uwch ar antur rhag ofn eich bod yn eu haddysgu a’u hyfforddi i’w hallforio, sy’n broblem; ar y llaw arall, nid yw’n hawdd denu swyddi newydd os nad oes gennych weithlu’n barod i ymgymryd â’r swyddi gwell hynny. Mae Iwerddon wedi gwneud hynny’n llwyddiannus; oherwydd y cytgord rhwng Cydffederasiwn Diwydiant Prydain Cymru a Chyngres Undebau Llafur Cymru, fel y’i hamlygwyd yn y cyfarfod o’r Cyngor Partneriaeth Busnes ddydd Gwener, mae pob gobaith bod gennym well cyfle i wneud hynny’n awr yng Nghymru—i gyflawni camp Iwerddon, os hoffech ei roi felly—nag erioed o’r blaen.

Mick Bates spoken in English p. 17

Mick Bates siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 17

Thank you for that interesting reply. However, can you assure me that you are addressing the increasing shortfall in the plumbing, carpentry and bricklaying sectors? Those professions are just as important to health as doctors and nurses. Do you also agree that the introduction of the Welsh baccalaureate, with its vocational aspects, will help to address the lack of many practical skills that are necessary for our economy?

Diolch ichi am yr ateb diddorol hwnnw. Fodd bynnag, a allwch chi fy sicrhau eich bod yn rhoi sylw i’r diffyg cynyddol yn nifer y plymwyr, seiri coed a bricwyr? Mae’r proffesiynau hynny yr un mor bwysig i iechyd ag y mae meddygon a nyrsys. A ydych hefyd yn cytuno y bydd cyflwyno’r fagloriaeth Gymreig, gyda’i hagweddau galwedigaethol, yn gymorth i ymateb i brinder llawer o sgiliau ymarferol sy’n angenrheidiol i’n heconomi?

Rhodri Morgan The First Minister spoken in English p. 17

Rhodri Morgan Y Prif Weinidog siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 17

You have raised an interesting point about plumbers, bricklayers and carpenters, who are now in short supply because the building industry abandoned the apprenticeship system around 20 years ago. Unfortunately, the last of those who undertook their apprenticeship in the 1960s and 1970s will retire shortly. Good apprenticeship systems encourage people who have finished an apprenticeship and started work as newly-trained, fully-fledged crafts persons to gather the accumulated wisdom of those who have been doing the work, on a building site for example, for the previous 20 years. There is a serious danger that over the next 10 years, as the last apprentice-trained plumbers, bricklayers and carpenters retire, there will be no people in senior positions available to pass on their accumulated wisdom. We must solve that problem before they retire or employ them in some capacity after retirement to enable them to pass on their accumulated skills.

Yr ydych wedi codi pwynt diddorol am blymwyr, gosodwyr brics a seiri coed, sy’n brin bellach am fod y diwydiant adeiladu wedi rhoi’r gorau i’r system brentisiaeth tua 20 mlynedd yn ôl. Gwaetha’r modd, bydd yr olaf o blith y rhai a wnaeth fwrw prentisiaeth yn y 1960au a’r 1970au yn ymddeol cyn hir. Mae systemau prentisiaeth da’n cymell rhai a gwblhaodd brentisiaeth a dechrau gweithio fel crefftwyr newydd cymwys i gasglu’r doethineb a gronnwyd gan y rhai a fu’n gwneud y gwaith, ar safle adeiladu er enghraifft, am yr 20 mlynedd blaenorol. Mae perygl mawr na fydd rhai ar gael mewn swyddi uwch dros y 10 mlynedd nesaf, gydag ymddeoliad y plymwyr, y gosodwyr brics a’r seiri coed a hyfforddwyd fel prentisiaid, i drosglwyddo’r doethineb a gronnwyd ganddynt. Rhaid inni ddatrys y broblem honno cyn iddynt ymddeol neu eu cyflogi mewn rhyw swydd ar ôl iddynt ymddeol fel y gallant drosglwyddo’r sgiliau a gasglwyd ganddynt.

On your other point, the parity of esteem between vocational and academic education is at the heart of our education policy, as seen in the agenda for 14 to 19-year-olds that Jane Davidson announced a month and a half ago and in the policies that we have announced regarding the Assembly learning grant. That grant ensures that people going into vocational further education are pari passu with those going into academic higher education in a way that never happened before.

Ynghylch y pwynt arall a wnaethoch, mae parch cyfartal at addysg alwedigaethol ac academaidd yn ganolog i’n polisi addysg, fel y gwelwyd yn yr agenda ar gyfer rhai 14 i 19 mlwydd oed a gyhoeddodd Jane Davidson fis a hanner yn ôl ac yn y polisïau a gyhoeddasom ynghylch grant dysgu’r Cynulliad. Mae’r grant hwnnw’n sicrhau bod pobl sy’n mynd i addysg bellach alwedigaethol yn gyfartal â rhai sy’n mynd i addysg uwch academaidd mewn modd cwbl newydd.

Phil Williams spoken in English p. 18

Phil Williams siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 18

There has been considerable emphasis on encouraging the spin-out of innovation from universities. However, I am sure that you will agree that it is equally important to encourage the private sector, and especially small and medium-sized enterprises, to use and strengthen the research capacity of higher education in Wales. What plans has the Assembly Government to provide appropriate financial incentives to expand such collaboration between industry and universities, following, for example, the proposals published by Sir Adrian Webb and Professor Stephen Hill?

Bu cryn bwyslais ar daenu arloesedd o brifysgolion. Fodd bynnag, yr wyf yn siŵr y cytunwch ei bod yr un mor bwysig annog y sector preifat, a busnesau bach a chanolig eu maint yn enwedig, i ddefnyddio a chryfhau gallu ymchwil addysg uwch yng Nghymru. Pa gynlluniau sydd gan Lywodraeth y Cynulliad i ddarparu anogaethau ariannol priodol i ehangu cydweithio o’r fath rhwng diwydiant a phrifysgolion, gan ddilyn, er enghraifft, y cynigion a gyhoeddwyd gan Syr Adrian Webb a’r Athro Stephen Hill?

Rhodri Morgan The First Minister spoken in English p. 18

Rhodri Morgan Y Prif Weinidog siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 18

I do not have the details of what Sir Adrian Webb and Professor Stephen Hill proposed in front of me. However, spinning innovation out of and into universities is important. You will be aware of the Technium project, which I think is the most promising scheme ever to be produced in Wales to break open the jar of goodies within the higher education system in Wales and to access the accumulated knowledge of our academics and researchers. We must get them to commercialise their skills to create jobs and, possibly, wealth for themselves.

Nid yw manylion yr hyn a gynigiodd Syr Adrian Webb a’r Athro Stephen Hill gennyf o’m blaen. Fodd bynnag, mae lledu arloesedd o brifysgolion ac iddynt yn bwysig. Byddwch yn ymwybodol o brosiect Technium, sef y cynllun mwyaf addawol a luniwyd erioed yng Nghymru, yn fy marn i, i agor y jar o bethau da yn y system addysg uwch yng Nghymru a mynd at y gronfa o wybodaeth sydd gan ein hacademwyr a’n hymchwilwyr. Rhaid inni eu hannog i fasnacheiddio eu sgiliau i greu swyddi ac, o bosibl, gyfoeth iddynt hwy eu hun.

In terms of getting people in the business community to appreciate what is available, the manufacturing advisory service centres can provide industry with information on services available. For example, businesses that want a computerised simulated model of a product can get it made quickly through Cardiff University’s mechanical engineering department. Such services, which are probably as good as any others in the UK, are now available in Bangor and in Cardiff, and similar services are available right across the board in the higher education sector in Wales. However, we must encourage the business community to realise that the resource is available. Universities should not be seen as ivory towers with ivy-covered walls and professors who are not interested in wealth creation and the world of business. They are there to help businesses and they should be used.

Ynghylch peri i bobl yn y gymuned fusnes sylweddoli beth sydd ar gael, gall y canolfannau gwasanaeth ymgynghorol gweithgynhyrchu roi gwybodaeth i ddiwydiant am y gwasanaethau sydd ar gael. Er enghraifft, mae busnesau sydd am gael model o gynnyrch drwy efelychiad cyfrifiadurol yn gallu ei gael yn gyflym drwy adran peirianneg fecanyddol Prifysgol Caerdydd. Mae gwasanaethau o’r fath, sy’n gystal â dim a geir yn y DU yn ôl pob tebyg, i’w cael bellach ym Mangor ac yng Nghaerdydd, ac mae gwasanaethau tebyg ar gael drwy’r sector addysg uwch yng Nghymru. Er hynny, rhaid inni annog y gymuned fusnes i sylweddoli bod yr adnodd hwn ar gael. Ni ddylid ystyried prifysgolion yn dyrau ifori a’u waliau dan eiddew a’u hathrawon yn rhai sydd heb ddiddordeb ym myd busnes a chreu cyfoeth. Maent yno i helpu busnesau a dylid eu defnyddio.

Lorraine Barrett spoken in English p. 18

Lorraine Barrett siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 18

You mentioned apprenticeships and traditional skills such as carpentry and plastering. Are you aware of the excellent work carried out in Cardiff by the Young Builders Trust, which is providing training for young men and women in those traditional skills?

Gwnaethoch sôn am brentisiaethau a sgiliau traddodiadol fel gwaith coed a phlastro. A wyddoch am y gwaith rhagorol a wneir yng Nghaerdydd gan Ymddiriedolaeth yr Adeiladwyr Ifanc, sy’n darparu hyfforddiant ar gyfer dynion a menywod ifanc yn y sgiliau traddodiadol hynny?

Rhodri Morgan The First Minister spoken in English p. 19

Rhodri Morgan Y Prif Weinidog siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 19

No, I was not and I am grateful that you have drawn the Assembly’s attention to it; such schemes help to fill the wide gap that currently exists and which employers are complaining about. House builders, for example, are complaining desperately about that gap—although there is a boom in house building, they cannot capitalise on it because they cannot expand the supply of skilled tradesmen and tradeswomen. That is because of what has happened over the past 20 years. A hole exists and we must fill it through a variety of schemes, including the one that you mentioned.

Ni wyddwn am hynny ac yr wyf yn ddiolchgar eich bod wedi’i ddwyn i sylw’r Cynulliad; mae cynlluniau o’r fath yn gymorth i lenwi’r bwlch mawr sy’n bod ar hyn o bryd ac y mae cyflogwyr yn cwyno amdano. Mae adeiladwyr tai, er enghraifft, yn cwyno’n arw am y bwlch hwnnw—er bod ymchwydd mewn codi tai, ni allant fanteisio arno am na allant gynyddu’r cyflenwad o grefftwyr. Mae hynny oherwydd yr hyn a ddigwyddodd dros yr 20 mlynedd diwethaf. Mae bwlch yn bod a rhaid inni’i lenwi drwy amryw o gynlluniau, gan gynnwys yr un y gwnaethoch ei grybwyll.

Jonathan Morgan spoken in English p. 19

Jonathan Morgan siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 19

Over the last year, the number of students in Wales studying media studies has increased by some 22 per cent. Over the last five academic years, there has been a consistent drop in the number of students in Wales studying language-related subjects, particularly modern foreign languages, and a drop of some 44.76 per cent in the number studying business-related subjects. In light of Mick Bates’s question on integrating the economic needs of Wales with its educational needs, how are we to address these deficiencies? Wales is losing the students who should be studying these key subjects if we are to improve our competitiveness on the European stage.

Dros y flwyddyn ddiwethaf, bu cynnydd o tua 22 y cant yn nifer y myfyrwyr yng Nghymru sy’n gwneud astudiaethau’r cyfryngau. Dros y pum mlynedd academaidd diwethaf, bu gostyngiad cyson yn nifer y myfyrwyr yng Nghymru sy’n astudio pynciau sy’n ymwneud ag iaith, yn enwedig ieithoedd tramor modern, a gostyngiad o ryw 44.76 y cant yn y nifer sy’n astudio pynciau sy’n gysylltiedig â busnes. Yn sgîl cwestiwn Mick Bates am gyfuno anghenion economaidd Cymru a’i hanghenion addysgol, sut y gwnawn ymdrin â’r diffygion hyn? Mae Cymru’n colli’r myfyrwyr a ddylai astudio’r pynciau allweddol hyn os ydym i fod yn fwy cystadleuol ar y llwyfan Ewropeaidd.

Rhodri Morgan The First Minister spoken in English p. 19

Rhodri Morgan Y Prif Weinidog siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 19

I agree, but neither Jane Davidson nor I can make more students study chemistry, engineering, business studies, physics, mathematics, modern languages and so on. It is clear that that is what we need, but you cannot dictate what students choose to study in school. It is difficult to oblige students to study the subjects that you think they should study. However, we should persuade students to study these subjects in which, if you like, it is perhaps easier to fail, where you have to work hard to pass, and in which there is a greater fear of failing than in some of the more modern subjects. We must encourage students to study these subjects. I believe that we need more students in mathematics and sciences, and perhaps business studies and modern languages also. They are highly relevant subjects. I will not criticise other courses—they may be relevant, vocational and guarantee people jobs—but I regret the fall-off in the numbers of people studying the subjects that you and I have mentioned.

Yr wyf yn cytuno, ond ni all Jane Davidson na minnau orfodi rhagor o fyfyrwyr i astudio cemeg, peirianneg, astudiaethau busnes, ffiseg, mathemateg, ieithoedd modern ac yn y blaen. Mae’n amlwg bod arnom angen hynny, ond ni allwch ddweud wrth fyfyrwyr beth y dylent ddewis ei astudio yn yr ysgol. Mae’n anodd gorfodi myfyrwyr i astudio’r pynciau y credwch y dylent eu hastudio. Fodd bynnag, dylem ddwyn perswâd ar fyfyrwyr i astudio’r pynciau hyn y mae’n haws methu ynddynt o bosibl, os caf ei roi felly, lle y mae’n rhaid ichi weithio’n galed i lwyddo, a lle y mae mwy o ofn methu nag mewn rhai o’r pynciau mwy modern. Rhaid inni annog myfyrwyr i astudio’r pynciau hyn. Credaf fod arnom angen rhagor o fyfyrwyr mewn mathemateg a’r gwyddorau, ac mewn astudiaethau busnes ac ieithoedd modern hefyd efallai. Maent yn bynciau tra pherthnasol. Ni feirniadaf gyrsiau eraill—gallent fod yn berthnasol, yn alwedigaethol a rhoi sicrwydd o swyddi i bobl—ond mae’r gostyngiad yn y niferoedd sy’n astudio’r pynciau yr ydych chi a minnau wedi cyfeirio atynt yn ofid i mi.

Ymddiriedolaeth GIG Gwasanaeth Ambiwlans Cymru

Welsh Ambulance Service NHS Trust

Q7 David Ian Jones spoken in English p. 20

C7 David Ian Jones siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 20

Will the First Minister make a statement on arrangements made by the Welsh Ambulance Service NHS Trust to deal with a major terrorist incident in Wales? (OAQ20725)

A wnaiff y Prif Weinidog ddatganiad ar y trefniadau a wnaed gan Wasanaeth Ambiwlans Cymru i ddelio â digwyddiad terfysgol mawr yng Nghymru? (OAQ20725)

Rhodri Morgan The First Minister spoken in English p. 20

Rhodri Morgan Y Prif Weinidog siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 20

The Welsh ambulance service has decontamination facilities and personal protective equipment. It had such facilities and equipment at the time of the National Audit Office review, with which you may be familiar. The review identified gaps in these arrangements in England and the Welsh ambulance service is probably better placed than other UK ambulance services in that regard. However, in conjunction with the Assembly Government, the Welsh ambulance service is now re-assessing the situation, following the recent NAO report, to ensure that our arrangements are as resilient as possible.

Mae gan wasanaeth ambiwlans Cymru gyfleusterau diheintio ac offer gwarchod personol. Yr oedd yn meddu ar gyfleusterau ac offer o’r fath ar adeg adolygiad y Swyddfa Archwilio Genedlaethol, y gallech fod yn gyfarwydd ag ef. Gwnaeth yr adolygiad nodi bylchau yn y trefniadau hyn yn Lloegr ac mae gwasanaeth ambiwlans Cymru mewn gwell sefyllfa, yn ôl pob tebyg, na gwasanaethau ambiwlans eraill y DU. Fodd bynnag, mae gwasanaeth ambiwlans Cymru ar y cyd â Llywodraeth y Cynulliad, yn ailasesu’r sefyllfa, ar ôl yr adroddiad diweddar gan y Swyddfa Archwilio Genedlaethol, i sicrhau bod ein trefniadau mor ystwyth ag y bo modd.

David Ian Jones spoken in English p. 20

David Ian Jones siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 20

People in Wales are extremely concerned about the increasing terrorist threat. Last month the Prime Minister called for extra vigilance and, only today, we have heard that the vaccination of 500 key military and medical personnel against smallpox is proposed. The prospect of a biological or radiological attack is appalling. You say that the Welsh ambulance service has been issued with decontamination equipment and suits, but are you aware that it has not been provided with dedicated vehicles to transport that equipment, which is heavy and bulky, to the scene of a terrorist incident? Do you agree that this deficiency should be addressed as soon as possible, and will you authorise the provision of the funds necessary to purchase such dedicated vehicles for use in all parts of Wales?

Mae pobl yng Nghymru’n dra phryderus ynghylch y bygythiad cynyddol o derfysgaeth. Y mis diwethaf galwodd y Prif Weinidog am wyliadwriaeth ychwanegol a, heddiw, clywsom fod bwriad i frechu 500 o staff milwrol a meddygol allweddol rhag y frech wen. Mae’r rhagolwg o ymosodiad biolegol neu radiolegol yn ofnadwy. Dywedwch fod gwasanaeth ambiwlans Cymru wedi cael offer a gwisgoedd diheintio, ond a wyddoch nad yw wedi cael cerbydau pwrpasol i gludo’r offer hynny, sy’n drwm ac yn swmpus, i leoliad digwyddiad terfysgol? A gytunwch y dylid ymdrin â’r diffyg hwn mor fuan â phosibl, ac a wnewch awdurdodi darparu’r cyllid sydd ei angen i brynu cerbydau pwrpasol o’r fath i’w defnyddio ym mhob rhan o Gymru?

Rhodri Morgan The First Minister spoken in English p. 21

Rhodri Morgan Y Prif Weinidog siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 21

I was not aware of this dedicated vehicle issue. The Minister for Health and Social Services and others here will have heard what you say, and I will write to you when we have reviewed the situation. Although I cannot comment on the transportation issue at present, it seems that we were ahead of England with regard to the provision of decontamination facilities and personal protective equipment. I am pleased that that was the case because it shows that Welsh ambulance service management has addressed management capacity and made plans for what might happen in the event of a major terrorist incident.

Nid oeddwn yn ymwybodol o’r mater hwn ynghylch cerbydau pwrpasol. Bydd y Gweinidog dros Iechyd a Gwasanaethau Cymdeithasol ac eraill wedi clywed yr hyn a ddywedasoch, a gwnaf ysgrifennu atoch wedi inni adolygu’r sefyllfa. Er na allaf wneud sylw am y mater cludiant ar hyn o bryd, ymddengys ein bod ar y blaen i Loegr o ran darparu cyfleusterau diheintio ac offer gwarchod personol. Yr wyf yn falch ei bod felly gan fod hynny’n dangos bod rheolwyr gwasanaeth ambiwlans Cymru wedi rhoi sylw i’r gallu i reoli ac wedi gwneud cynlluniau ar gyfer yr hyn a allai ddigwydd os bydd digwyddiad terfysgol mawr.

Cymorth Economaidd

Economic Assistance

Q8 Geraint Davies spoken in English p. 21

C8 Geraint Davies siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 21

What is the First Minister doing to ensure that the communities that need the greatest economic assistance are receiving it? (OAQ20748)

Beth mae’r Prif Weinidog yn ei wneud i sicrhau y rhoddir y cymorth economaidd mwyaf i’r cymunedau sydd ei angen? (OAQ20748)

Rhodri Morgan The First Minister spoken in English p. 21

Rhodri Morgan Y Prif Weinidog siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 21

We deal with this matter at three levels. The two-thirds of Wales that falls below 75 per cent of the average UK or western European gross domestic product per capita receives tier 1 top-rate economic development assistance. We also pinpoint wards with particular problems through Communities First, which is a community regeneration measure for a small percentage of the Welsh population living in 100 deprived wards. Halfway between those programmes is the assistance that the Chancellor recently announced, repeating and strengthening the previous budget’s announcement, which will benefit the 47 per cent of Wales’s population living in wards that have been selected for stamp duty exemption and other investment tax credit benefits.

Yr ydym yn ymdrin â’r mater hwn ar dair lefel. Mae’r ddwy ran o dair o Gymru sydd â chynnyrch mewnwladol crynswth y pen o lai na 75 y cant o gyfartaledd y DU neu orllewin Ewrop yn cael cymorth datblygu economaidd haen 1 ar y gyfradd uchaf. Canolbwyntiwn hefyd ar wardiau sydd â phroblemau penodol drwy Cymunedau yn Gyntaf, sy’n fesur adfywio cymunedol ar gyfer canran fach o boblogaeth Cymru sy’n byw mewn 100 o wardiau difreintiedig. Hanner ffordd rhwng y rhaglenni hynny y mae’r cymorth a gyhoeddodd y Canghellor yn ddiweddar, gan ailadrodd a chryfhau’r cyhoeddiad yn y gyllideb flaenorol, er budd y 47 y cant o boblogaeth Cymru sy’n byw mewn wardiau a ddetholwyd i’w heithrio o dalu’r stampdoll ac i gael manteision credyd treth buddsoddi eraill.

Geraint Davies spoken in English p. 21

Geraint Davies siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 21

What assistance does the Assembly Government offer to Welsh manufacturing companies that have to produce competitively priced products in the face of low manufacturing costs abroad?

Pa gymorth y mae Llywodraeth y Cynulliad yn ei gynnig i gwmnïau gweithgynhyrchu yng Nghymru sy’n gorfod cynhyrchu cynhyrchion am bris cystadleuol yn wyneb costau gweithgynhyrchu isel dramor?

Rhodri Morgan The First Minister spoken in English p. 22

Rhodri Morgan Y Prif Weinidog siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 22

If the Chancellor could have his way, and could alter markets by snapping his fingers, he would—as would we all—have preferred the euro to have maintained its launch rate of around 70p to the pound, rather than be at 64p to the pound as it is now, or 58p to the pound, as it was for most of 2001. That has a major impact. Also, you cannot wish away competition from low-wage countries in Eastern Europe, which are likely to become members of the European Union and which have wage rates that are one-sixth of ours. There is also competition, in the case of the clothing industry, from North Africa, which has wage rates that are one-twelfth of ours. That badly affected Dewhirst’s operations in Wales. Finally, there is China. I do not know what the wage rates are there, but I doubt that they are one-fiftieth of ours. That is a key problem, and the only way to compete is to stay ahead of the game by producing goods that those countries do not. If you only produce what they produce, you will be out-competed. That has nothing to do with the level of the pound or the euro. It is simply a matter of the wage differential. You must stay ahead of the game and that is a large part of our philosophy and our economic development programme.

Os gallai’r Canghellor gael ei ffordd, ac os gallai newid marchnadoedd drwy roi clec ar ei fawd, byddai’n well ganddo ef—a phawb ohonom—pe byddai’r ewro wedi aros ar y gyfradd wrth ei lansio o tua 70c i’r bunt, yn hytrach na bod yn 64c i’r bunt fel y mae’n awr, neu’n 58c i’r bunt, fel y bu yn ystod y rhan fwyaf o 2001. Caiff hynny effaith fawr. Hefyd, ni ellir swyno ymaith y cystadlu oddi wrth wledydd sydd â chyflogau isel yn nwyrain Ewrop, sy’n debygol o ddod yn aelodau o’r Undeb Ewropeaidd ac sydd â chyfraddau cyflog sy’n un rhan o chwech o’n rhai ni. Mae cystadlu hefyd, yn achos y diwydiant dillad, oddi wrth ogledd Affrica, sydd â chyfraddau cyflog sy’n un rhan o 12 o’n rhai ni. Amharodd hynny ar weithrediadau Dewhirst yng Nghymru. Yn olaf, dyna Tsieina. Ni wn beth yw’r cyfraddau cyflog yn y fan honno, ond yr wyf yn amau nad ydynt yn gymaint ag un rhan o 50 o’n rhai ni. Mae honno’n broblem allweddol, a’r unig fodd i gystadlu yw aros ar y blaen drwy gynhyrchu nwyddau nas cynhyrchir gan y gwledydd hynny. Os na chynhyrchwch ond yr hyn a gynhyrchant hwy, bydd y gystadleuaeth yn drech na chi. Nid oes a wnelo hynny ddim â lefel y bunt neu’r ewro. Nid yw ond yn fater o’r gwahaniaeth mewn cyflogau. Rhaid ichi aros ar y blaen ac mae hynny’n rhan bwysig o’n hathroniaeth a’n rhaglen datblygu economaidd.

Eleanor Burnham spoken in English p. 22

Eleanor Burnham siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 22

You may be aware of the application to double the size of Broughton Retail Park shopping centre, and the concerns of Denbighshire, the neighbouring local authority, about the matter. I welcome increased investment as much as anyone in north Wales. However, do you not agree that the economic strategy for north Wales, and the nation as a whole, must ensure a balance between such developments and investment in local traders and communities? Denbighshire has already suffered as a result of the job losses in Prestatyn. We should invest and focus on town centre shops instead.

Efallai y gwyddoch am y cais i ddyblu maint canolfan siopa Parc Adwerthu Brychdyn, a’r pryderon sydd gan sir Ddinbych, yr awdurdod lleol cyfagos, am y mater hwn. Croesawaf y cynnydd mewn buddsoddi yn gymaint â neb yn y Gogledd. Er hynny, oni chytunwch fod rhaid i’r strategaeth economaidd i’r Gogledd, ac i’r genedl gyfan, sicrhau cydbwysedd rhwng datblygiadau o’r fath a buddsoddi mewn masnachwyr a chymunedau lleol? Mae sir Ddinbych wedi dioddef eisoes o ganlyniad i golledion swyddi ym Mhrestatyn. Dylem fuddsoddi a chanolbwyntio ar siopau yng nghanol trefi yn lle hynny.

Rhodri Morgan The First Minister spoken in English p. 23

Rhodri Morgan Y Prif Weinidog siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 23

You are putting me on the spot on a planning matter. It would be best if I did not comment, in case the application is referred to the Assembly planning machinery, as my remarks could be misconstrued by either promoters or objectors.

Yr ydych yn fy rhoi mewn cornel wrth holi am fater cynllunio. Y peth gorau fyddai imi beidio â gwneud sylw, rhag ofn i’r cais gael ei gyfeirio i beirianwaith cynllunio’r Cynulliad, gan y gallai hyrwyddwyr neu wrthwynebwyr gamddehongli fy sylwadau.

Ieuan Wyn Jones spoken in English p. 23

Ieuan Wyn Jones siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 23

I have said a couple of times recently that the Welsh economy is performing badly compared with the rest of the United Kingdom. You refused to accept that fact. You will now be aware of the revised growth forecast by Gordon Brown for the UK economy, which shows a downward path. However, Cardiff Business School’s forecast for Wales, and the econometric forecasting of Cambridge University and Oxford University—your own former university—state that the Welsh economy will under-perform in the next three years compared with the rest of the UK. Your economic policy stated that the Welsh economy must grow by 4 per cent every year to meet the targets it set. The reality is that not only will those targets not be met for this Assembly term, but that they will be missed by a mile in the next Assembly term. Will you apologise for that?

Yr wyf wedi dweud sawl gwaith yn ddiweddar fod economi Cymru’n perfformio’n wael o’i chymharu â gweddill y Deyrnas Unedig. Gwnaethoch wrthod derbyn y ffaith honno. Byddwch yn ymwybodol yn awr o’r rhagolwg twf diwygiedig gan Gordon Brown ar gyfer economi’r DU, sy’n dangos llwybr i waered. Fodd bynnag, y rhagolwg gan Ysgol Fusnes Caerdydd ar gyfer Cymru, a rhagolwg econometrig Prifysgol Caergrawnt a Phrifysgol Rhydychen—y brifysgol y buoch chi iddi—yw y bydd economi Cymru’n tanberfformio yn y tair blynedd nesaf o’i chymharu â gweddill y DU. Yr oedd eich polisi economaidd chi’n datgan bod rhaid i economi Cymru dyfu 4 y cant bob blwyddyn i gyrraedd y targedau a osodwyd ganddo. Y gwir amdani yw nid yn unig y methir â chyrraedd y targedau hynny yn y tymor hwn o’r Cynulliad, ond y’u methir o bell yn nhymor nesaf y Cynulliad. A wnewch ymddiheuro am hynny?

Rhodri Morgan The First Minister spoken in English p. 23

Rhodri Morgan Y Prif Weinidog siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 23

You have completely misunderstood what the targets are about. It is clear that the Welsh economy has fared well in terms of employment, and that it continues to grow. Between September 2001 and 2002, 33,000 additional jobs were created. The total number of jobs in the UK fell during that time. Given the relative improvement in our employment position and in our economic inactivity position, compared with the UK on average—particularly the south-east of England—2002 was a remarkably good year for Wales. In terms of measuring whether or not our policy shifts are paying off, I draw your attention to the good news contained in the annual report on regional selective assistance, which was at a record level in the year that finished on 1 March 2002. We only have the half-year figures for RSA commitments this year. However, they indicate that the 2001-02 figures may possibly be topped. We would be pleased if they did, because that lays the groundwork to alter the forecast given by the various forecasting bodies to which you referred. Those bodies do not make any attempt to measure policy shifts, or to estimate the consequences of a record level of RSA. They simply consider how much manufacturing, service, agricultural, and construction industry you have, how they expect those four sectors of the economy to perform, and then calculate the relative shifts between Wales, the south-east of England, the Midlands, the north of England and Scotland and so on. They do not consider anything else, therefore our policy shifts are not captured in their economic forecasting techniques. However, we consider how successful we are compared with the rest of the country—because you cannot ignore the overall background—in capturing the investment decisions of multinationals. Decisions to invest in Wales were up by 6 per cent last year, while they were down 60 per cent in the UK as a whole. That is sad for the rest of the UK, but it shows that our relative position is improving. Record levels of RSA, relative to the rest of the UK, again show a healthy position. That is the groundwork for a healthy economic future for Wales.

Yr ydych wedi llwyr gamddeall pwrpas y targedau. Mae’n amlwg bod economi Cymru wedi gwneud yn dda o ran cyflogaeth, a’i bod yn dal i dyfu. Rhwng Medi 2001 a 2002, crewyd 33,000 o swyddi ychwanegol. Bu gostyngiad yng nghyfanswm y nifer o swyddi yn y DU yn ystod y cyfnod hwnnw. O ystyried y gwelliant cymharol yn ein sefyllfa o ran cyflogaeth a’n sefyllfa o ran anweithgarwch economaidd, o’i gymharu â chyfartaledd y DU—yn enwedig de-ddwyrain Lloegr—bu 2002 yn flwyddyn hynod o dda i Gymru. O ran mesur a yw ein symudiadau polisi’n talu ai peidio, tynnaf eich sylw at y newyddion da a geir yn yr adroddiad blynyddol ar gymorth rhanbarthol dewisol, a oedd ar ei uchaf erioed yn y flwyddyn a ddaeth i ben ar 1 Mawrth 2002. Dim ond y ffigurau hanner blwyddyn am yr ymrwymiadau cymorth rhanbarthol dewisol eleni sydd gennym. Fodd bynnag, maent yn dangos ei bod yn bosibl y byddant yn well na ffigurau 2001-02. Byddem yn falch os byddant, gan fod hynny’n gosod y sylfaen i newid y rhagolwg a roddwyd gan y gwahanol gyrff rhagweld y cyfeiriasoch atynt. Nid yw’r cyrff hynny’n ceisio mesur symudiadau polisi, neu amcangyfrif canlyniadau’r lefel uchaf erioed o gymorth rhanbarthol dewisol. Nid ydynt ond yn ystyried faint o ddiwydiant gweithgynhyrchu, gwasanaethu, amaethyddol ac adeiladu sydd gennych, sut y disgwyliant i’r pedwar sector hwnnw o’r economi berfformio, ac wedyn yn cyfrifo’r symudiadau cymharol rhwng Cymru, de-ddwyrain Lloegr, canolbarth Lloegr, gogledd Lloegr a’r Alban ac yn y blaen. Nid ydynt yn ystyried dim arall, felly ni chynhwysir ein symudiadau polisi yn eu technegau rhagweld economaidd. Fodd bynnag, yr ydym yn ystyried pa mor llwyddiannus yr ydym o’n cymharu â gweddill y wlad—gan na ellir anwybyddu’r cyd-destun cyffredinol—wrth sicrhau buddsoddiadau gan gwmnïau rhyngwladol. Yr oedd y penderfyniadau i fuddsoddi yng Nghymru 6 y cant yn uwch y llynedd, tra bu gostyngiad o 60 y cant yn y DU gyfan. Mae hynny’n drist i weddill y DU, ond dengys fod ein safle cymharol yn codi. Mae’r lefelau uchaf erioed o gymorth rhanbarthol dewisol, o’u cymharu â gweddill y DU, hefyd yn dangos sefyllfa iach. Dyna’r sylfaen ar gyfer dyfodol economaidd iach i Gymru.

Tenantiaid Gwrth-Gymdeithasol

Anti-Social Tenants

Q9 Brian Gibbons spoken in English p. 24

C9 Brian Gibbons siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 24

Has the Welsh Assembly Government made any representations to the UK Government in relation to the consultation on anti-social tenants? (OAQ20723)

A wnaeth Llywodraeth Cynulliad Cymru gyflwyno unrhyw sylwadau i Lywodraeth y DU mewn perthynas â’r ymgynghoriad ar denantiaid gwrth-gymdeithasol? (OAQ20723)

Rhodri Morgan The First Minister spoken in English p. 24

Rhodri Morgan Y Prif Weinidog siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 24

Yes. The Assembly Government responded to the Office of the Deputy Prime Minister’s consultation paper ‘Tackling Anti-Social Tenants’, last July. In the Queen’s Speech there were two measures, the Anti-Social Behaviour Bill and the Housing Bill, which will include practical proposals to address the problems caused by anti-social tenants. The Assembly Government is working to secure proper scope for subordinate legislation in order to shape these proposals to meet Welsh needs and circumstances.

Do. Ymatebodd Llywodraeth y Cynulliad i bapur ymgynghori Swyddfa’r Dirprwy Brif Weinidog ‘Tackling Anti-Social Tenants’, fis Gorffennaf diwethaf. Yn Araith y Frenhines yr oedd dau fesur, y Mesur Ymddygiad Gwrthgymdeithasol a’r Mesur Tai, a fydd yn cynnwys cynigion ymarferol i ymdrin â’r problemau a greir gan denantiaid gwrthgymdeithasol. Mae Llywodraeth y Cynulliad yn gweithio i sicrhau cyfle priodol ar gyfer is-ddeddfwriaeth er mwyn siapio’r cynigion hynny i fodloni anghenion ac amgylchiadau Cymru.

Brian Gibbons spoken in English p. 25

Brian Gibbons siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 25

I am pleased to hear that. You may remember that the Secretary of State for Wales, when he discussed the Queen’s Speech, mentioned that further legislative proposals to tackle anti-social tenants had been announced. The Welsh Assembly Government is developing an excellent reputation in terms of tackling crime and developing community safety. Do you agree therefore that it is important that this new legislation provides the Assembly with powers to tackle this problem, which is creating hell for many communities across Wales?

Yr wyf yn falch o glywed hynny. Efallai y cofiwch i Ysgrifennydd Gwladol Cymru, pan drafododd Araith y Frenhines, sôn bod cynigion deddfwriaethol pellach i ymdrin â thenantiaid gwrthgymdeithasol wedi’u cyhoeddi. Mae Llywodraeth Cynulliad Cymru’n datblygu enw rhagorol am fynd i’r afael â throseddu a datblygu diogelwch cymunedol. A gytunwch felly ei bod yn bwysig bod y ddeddfwriaeth newydd hon yn rhoi pwerau i’r Cynulliad i fynd i’r afael â’r broblem hon, sy’n gwneud bywyd yn uffern i lawer o gymunedau ledled Cymru?

Rhodri Morgan The First Minister spoken in English p. 25

Rhodri Morgan Y Prif Weinidog siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 25

I was pleased that the Queen’s Speech confirmed that the Housing Bill will include proposals for mandatory licensing of certain houses in multiple occupation and selective licensing of other privately rented properties. That will mean that the behaviour of the minority of unscrupulous private landlords and their often anti-social tenants can be corrected. Similarly, the Anti-Social Behaviour Bill, which provides for a temporary loss of security of tenure, and easier eviction if there is subsequent anti-social behaviour, should also address these problems. Our officials are in touch with the Home Office concerning that Bill to ensure that our interests are reflected in the draft legislation.

Yr oeddwn yn falch bod cadarnhad yn Araith y Frenhines y bydd y Mesur Tai yn cynnwys cynigion am drwyddedu gorfodol ar gyfer rhai tai amlfeddiant a thrwyddedu dewisol ar gyfer tai eraill a gaiff eu gosod yn breifat. Bydd hynny’n golygu bod modd cywiro ymddygiad y lleiafrif o landlordiaid preifat diegwyddor a’u tenantiaid sy’n aml yn wrthgymdeithasol. Yn yr un modd, mae’n debygol y bydd y Mesur Ymddygiad Gwrthgymdeithasol, sy’n darparu ar gyfer colli sicrwydd tenantiaeth dros dro, a hwyluso dadfeddiannu os oes ymddygiad gwrthgymdeithasol ar ôl hynny, yn fodd i ymdrin â’r problemau hyn hefyd. Mae ein swyddogion mewn cysylltiad â’r Swyddfa Gartref ynghylch y Mesur hwnnw i sicrhau bod ein buddiannau wedi’u hadlewyrchu yn y ddeddfwriaeth ddrafft.

Peter Rogers spoken in English p. 25

Peter Rogers siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 25

I welcome your comments and I agree that the Anti-Social Behaviour Bill, which will bring into effect means to combat anti-social behaviour, has good intentions. However, there are problems with communicating the recording of these incidents and the way forward to the agencies. Will you ensure that for any legislation on anti-social tenants, there is full communication with the agencies and the communities concerned, so that they know how these orders can be implemented? This is an important aspect of community life.

Croesawaf eich sylwadau a chytunaf fod bwriadau da i’r Mesur Ymddygiad Gwrthgymdeithasol, a fydd yn rhoi dulliau ar waith i ymladd ymddygiad gwrthgymdeithasol. Fodd bynnag, mae problemau o ran rhoi gwybod am gofnodi’r digwyddiadau hyn a’r ffordd ymlaen i’r asiantaethau. A wnewch sicrhau, ar gyfer unrhyw ddeddfwriaeth ar denantiaid gwrthgymdeithasol, y bydd cyfathrebu llawn â’r asiantaethau a’r cymunedau dan sylw, fel y gwyddant sut i weithredu’r gorchmynion hyn? Mae hon yn agwedd bwysig ar fywyd cymunedol.

Rhodri Morgan The First Minister spoken in English p. 25

Rhodri Morgan Y Prif Weinidog siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 25

I will clarify what I said about the two separate Bills. The Housing Bill will deal with private landlords who are abusing the system by having too many anti-social tenants in houses in multiple occupation, and the Anti-Social Behaviour Bill will cover the social landlords. That is probably the sector where you would like there to be stronger communication, so that social landlords understand what they must do if there are probationary tenants, or if they need to demote tenants from permanent to probationary tenancies, or if they want to extend the period of probationary tenancies. There is a whole raft of measures, but I agree that follow-up must be good and that it must be made clear to the social landlords what their obligations under the new Act will be.

Egluraf yr hyn a ddywedais am y ddau Fesur gwahanol. Bydd y Mesur Tai yn delio â landlordiaid preifat sy’n camddefnyddio’r system drwy gael gormod o denantiaid gwrthgymdeithasol mewn tai amlfeddiant, a bydd y Mesur Ymddygiad Gwrthgymdeithasol yn ymdrin â’r landlordiaid cymdeithasol. Mae’n debyg mai yn y sector hwnnw y carech weld cyfathrebu cryfach, fel bod landlordiaid cymdeithasol yn deall yr hyn y mae’n rhaid iddynt ei wneud os oes tenantiaid ar brawf, neu os oes angen iddynt ddiraddio tenantiaid o denantiaeth barhaol i denantiaeth brawf. Mae toreth o fesurau, ond cytunaf fod yn rhaid i’r camau dilynol fod yn dda a bod yn rhaid rhoi ar ddeall i’r landlordiaid cymdeithasol beth fydd eu rhwymedigaethau o dan y Ddeddf newydd.

Pauline Jarman spoken in English p. 26

Pauline Jarman siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 26

I have no problem with offenders being required to make reparations to the communities against which they have offended. However, you will be aware that the Home Secretary intends reforming community sentences in the Courts Bill, with a view to toughening non-custodial sentences. It is claimed that one proposal is to force young offenders to pick litter so that they can be seen doing dirty manual work by their mates, in an effort not only to punish them, but to humiliate them. What value do you place on the work of public sector cleansing operatives when their work appears to be so undervalued that Government Ministers believe it to be humiliating?

Nid oes gennyf ddim yn erbyn mynnu bod troseddwyr yn gwneud iawn i’r cymunedau y maent wedi troseddu yn eu herbyn. Fodd bynnag, byddwch yn ymwybodol bod yr Ysgrifennydd Cartref yn bwriadu diwygio dedfrydau cymunedol yn y Mesur Llysoedd, gyda golwg ar wneud dedfrydau angharcharol yn fwy llym. Honnir mai un cynnig yw y dylid gorfodi troseddwyr ifanc i godi sbwriel fel y gall eu ffrindiau eu gweld yn gwneud gwaith llaw budr, mewn ymdrech nid yn unig i’w cosbi, ond i godi cywilydd arnynt hefyd. Pa werth a roddir ar waith glanhawyr sector cyhoeddus pan ymddengys bod eu gwaith wedi’i danbrisio i’r fath raddau fel bod Gweinidogion y Llywodraeth yn credu ei fod yn codi cywilydd ar y rhai sy’n cyflawni’r gwaith?

Rhodri Morgan The First Minister spoken in English p. 26

Rhodri Morgan Y Prif Weinidog siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 26

I am not a mind-reader, Pauline, so I do not know whether you are right to attribute to Government Ministers the motive of wishing to humiliate people by asking them to do public cleansing duties. I do not know where you have heard that. We need a raft of measures that set out rights and responsibilities so that, as we move into a culture of low unemployment and high employment, people realise that they can access the jobs that are available and play a full part in society. It is not easy for some to cross the bridge from seeing themselves as outsiders to being stakeholders in society. Some people hold back from doing so and need a gentle push—without humiliation—to get them across the bridge and to be stakeholders in a modern society where plenty of job, training and education opportunities are available.

Nid wyf yn darllen meddyliau, Pauline, felly ni wn a ydych yn iawn wrth briodoli i Weinidog Llywodraeth y cymhelliant o ddymuno codi cywilydd ar bobl drwy ofyn iddynt gyflawni dyletswyddau glanhau cyhoeddus. Ni wn ym mhle y clywsoch hynny. Mae arnom angen toreth o fesurau sy’n nodi hawliau a chyfrifoldebau, fel bod pobl yn sylweddoli, wrth inni fynd i ddiwylliant o ddiweithdra isel a chyflogaeth uchel, eu bod yn gallu cael y swyddi sydd ar gael a chwarae rhan lawn mewn cymdeithas. Mae rhai’n ei chael yn anodd croesi’r bont o’u gweld eu hunain yn rhai ar y cyrion at fod yn rhanddeiliaid mewn cymdeithas. Mae rhai’n ymatal rhag gwneud hynny ac mae arnynt angen hwb bach—heb eu hiselhau—i’w cael dros y bont ac yn rhanddeiliaid mewn cymdeithas fodern lle y mae digon o gyfleoedd am swyddi, hyfforddiant ac addysg.

Blaenoriaethau’r Cabinet

Cabinet Priorities

C10 Rhodri Glyn Thomas siaradwyd yn Gymraeg t. 27

Q10 Rhodri Glyn Thomas spoken in Welsh p. 27

A wnaiff y Gweinidog ddatganiad am flaenoriaethau ei Gabinet hyd at etholiadau nesaf y Cynulliad yn 2003? (OAQ20747)

Can the First Minister make a statement on the priorities of his Cabinet up until the next Assembly elections in 2003? (OAQ20747)

Rhodri Morgan Y Prif Weinidog siaradwyd yn Gymraeg t. 27

Rhodri Morgan The First Minister spoken in Welsh p. 27

Nid wyf yn siŵr a ddylwn roi’r ddarlith hanner awr, y ddarlith dwy funud, neu’r ddarlith hanner munud.

I am not sure whether I should give the half-hour lecture, the two minute lecture or the half-minute lecture.

Dafydd Elis-Thomas Y Llywydd siaradwyd yn Gymraeg t. 27

Dafydd Elis-Thomas The Presiding Officer spoken in Welsh p. 27

Y ddarlith hanner munud, Brif Weinidog.

The half-minute lecture, First Minister.

Rhodri Morgan Y Prif Weinidog siaradwyd yn Gymraeg t. 27

Rhodri Morgan The First Minister spoken in Welsh p. 27

Yr oeddwn yn disgwyl i chi ddweud hynny. Ymhlith y gwaith pwysig a fydd yn mynd rhagddo yn ystod y flwyddyn nesaf—ac y bydd paratoadau ar ei gyfer yn ystod y pum mis nesaf—mae parhau â gwaith ar gynllun peilot y fagloriaeth Gymreig; paratoi ar gyfer masnachfraint reilffyrdd Cymru a’r Gororau; bwrw ymlaen â’n buddsoddiad o dros £100 miliwn yn rhaglen Band Eang Cymru; a chwblhau cynllun peilot grantiau dysgu’r Cynulliad.

I expected you to say that. The important work that will be undertaken during the next year—preparations for which will take place during the next five months—includes the continuation of the work on the Welsh baccalaureate pilot scheme; preparation for the Wales and Borders rail franchise; the roll-out of our investment of over £100 million in the Broadband Wales programme; and completion of the Assembly learning grants pilot scheme.

Rhodri Glyn Thomas siaradwyd yn Gymraeg t. 27

Rhodri Glyn Thomas spoken in Welsh p. 27

Gan fod Alun Michael AS, y Gweinidog sydd â chyfrifoldeb am ddeddfwriaeth hela, yn debygol o gyhoeddi yn ystod y dyddiau nesaf y bydd hela cadnoid yn parhau dan system drwyddedu—sydd, fel y cytunwch yr wyf yn sicr, yn newyddion da i amaethyddiaeth yng Nghymru—a ystyriwch gynnwys hynny ymhlith eich blaenoriaethau? A ymladdwch i sicrhau mai’r Cynulliad a fydd yn penderfynu ar system drwyddedu ar gyfer Cymru, gan fod hela yng Nghymru yn dra gwahanol i hela mewn rhannau eraill o’r Deyrnas Unedig?

As Alun Michael MP, the Minister responsible for legislation on hunting, is likely to announce during the next few days that fox hunting will continue under a system of licensing—which, I am sure you will agree, is good news for Welsh agriculture—will you consider including that among your priorities? Will you fight to ensure that any decision on a licensing system for Wales is made by the Assembly, as hunting in Wales differs greatly from hunting in other parts of the United Kingdom?

Rhodri Morgan Y Prif Weinidog siaradwyd yn Gymraeg t. 27

Rhodri Morgan The First Minister spoken in Welsh p. 27

Ni allaf ragweld yr hyn y bydd Alun Michael yn ei ddweud. Bydd yn gwneud ei ddatganiad mewn llai na thri chwarter awr ac nid oes pwrpas felly ceisio rhagweld ei sylwadau pan allwch wylio’r datganiad ar y teledu, os y cewch ganiatâd i adael y Siambr. Clywais broffwydo y bore yma—gan rai sydd o blaid hela mewn egwyddor, a chan rai sy’n ei wrthwynebu—mai dim ond yng Nghymru ac ambell ardal arall debyg y gellid cael trwydded hela, oherwydd mewn ardaloedd o’r fath nid y cŵn fyddai’n lladd y llwynog.

I cannot predict what Alun Michael will say. He will make his statement in less than three-quarters of an hour and therefore there is no point in trying to anticipate his comments when you can watch the statement on the television, if you are given permission to leave the Chamber. I heard predictions this morning—by those in favour of hunting in principle, and those who oppose it—that licences would only be granted in Wales and some similar areas, because in such areas it would not be the dogs that would kill the fox.

Alun Pugh spoken in English p. 28

Alun Pugh siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 28

Following comments in the press over the weekend that free bus passes should be withdrawn, will you confirm that Welsh Labour will do no such thing to our pensioners and that the Assembly Government will continue its work to provide free bus travel to everyone over the age of 60 from next Easter?

Yn sgîl sylwadau yn y wasg dros y penwythnos y dylid tynnu’n ôl tocynnau bws am ddim, a wnewch chi gadarnhau na wnaiff Llafur Cymru ddim byd o’r fath i’n pensiynwyr ac y bydd Llywodraeth y Cynulliad yn parhau â’i gwaith i ddarparu teithio mewn bysiau am ddim ar gyfer pawb dros 60 oed o’r Pasg nesaf ymlaen?

Rhodri Morgan The First Minister spoken in English p. 28

Rhodri Morgan Y Prif Weinidog siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 28

I give a 100 per cent guarantee on that. I understand that the comments were from the Commission for Integrated Transport and that it proposes that free bus pass travel should be reduced to half-price bus pass travel and that the savings—which, in our case, would be £11 million or £12 million, now rising to £15 million or £16 million—could be devoted to other forms of bus subsidy, such as extending concessions to people who are means-tested, below pensionable age and without a disability. We do not propose to follow that path. It is an interesting proposal, but we do not believe that CfIT has fully understood that car ownership is lowest among retired people and those with disabilities and that they, therefore, make the greatest use of bus travel. The free bus passes are good for them in social terms, as they can get out and about and visit friends and family and so on. It also provides an underwritten guarantee that bus operators can use as a basis for extending services to parts of Wales that are not served by public transport—a problem to which Kirsty Williams referred earlier.

Rhoddaf warant lawn ar hynny. Deallaf i’r Comisiwn Trafnidiaeth Integredig wneud y sylwadau hynny a’i fod yn awgrymu y dylid lleihau teithio ar fysiau â thocynnau am ddim i deithio ar fysiau â thocynnau hanner pris ac y gellid rhoi’r arbedion—sef £11 miliwn neu £12 miliwn, gan godi’n awr i £15 neu £16 miliwn, yn ein hachos ni—at fathau eraill o gymhorthdal bysiau, fel estyn consesiynau i rai sy’n cael prawf moddion, sydd o dan oed pensiwn a heb anabledd. Ni fwriadwn ddilyn y llwybr hwnnw. Mae’n gynnig diddorol, ond ni chredwn fod y Comisiwn Trafnidiaeth Integredig wedi llawn ddeall bod perchnogaeth ar geir ar ei hisaf ymysg rhai sydd wedi ymddeol a rhai ag anableddau ac mai nhw, felly, sy’n teithio ar fysiau fwyaf. Mae’r tocynnau bysiau am ddim yn dda iddynt hwy’n gymdeithasol, gan y gallant deithio o gwmpas a chwrdd â’u ffrindiau a’u teulu ac yn y blaen. Mae hefyd yn rhoi gwarant sicr i’r gweithredwyr bysiau fel y gallant estyn gwasanaethau i rannau o Gymru nas gwasanaethir gan drafnidiaeth gyhoeddus—problem y cyfeiriodd Kirsty Williams ati’n gynharach.

Polisïau Gofal Iechyd

Healthcare Policies

Q11 Nick Bourne spoken in English p. 28

C11 Nick Bourne siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 28

Will the First Minister make a statement on his administration’s healthcare policies? (OAQ20742)

A wnaiff y Gweinidog ddatganiad am bolisïau ei weinyddiaeth ar ofal iechyd? (OAQ20742)

Rhodri Morgan The First Minister spoken in English p. 28

Rhodri Morgan Y Prif Weinidog siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 28

The Welsh Assembly Government has made considerable progress with its policies for healthcare, as set out in ‘Improving Health in Wales’. This includes reducing waiting times for cardiac, orthopaedic and cataract surgery, increasing the numbers of staff in the NHS by 12 per cent since 1997—and there will be much larger increases through to 2010—and issuing strategies targeted at Welsh circumstances such as those for dentistry, pharmacy and optometry. It also includes groundbreaking policies such as the eye care initiative. These new structures are more responsive to the local needs of the people of Wales.

Mae Llywodraeth Cynulliad Cymru wedi gwneud cryn gynnydd ar ei pholisïau ar gyfer gofal iechyd, fel y’u nodwyd yn ‘Gwella Iechyd yng Nghymru’. Mae hynny’n cynnwys lleihau’r amseroedd aros am lawdriniaeth gardïaidd, orthopedig a chataract, cynyddu nifer y staff yn y GIG o 12 y cant ers 1997—a bydd codiadau mwy o lawer hyd at 2010—a chyhoeddi strategaethau i ymdrin â’r amgylchiadau yng Nghymru fel y rhai ar gyfer deintyddiaeth, fferylliaeth ac optometreg. Mae hefyd yn cynnwys polisïau arloesol fel y fenter gofal llygaid. Mae’r strwythurau newydd hyn yn fwy ymatebol i anghenion lleol pobl Cymru.

Nick Bourne spoken in English p. 29

Nick Bourne siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 29

I was astounded to hear you speak of your Government’s priorities up until the next Assembly elections without mentioning health at all. It has been one of the biggest messes over which you have presided since 1999. However, in your 1999 manifesto, along with Alun Michael, you promised that, at the end of a Labour first term, nobody would wait more than six months for out-patient treatment, or more than 18 months for in-patient treatment. What progress is being made on those promises?

Yr oeddwn yn rhyfeddu eich clywed yn sôn am flaenoriaethau’ch Llywodraeth hyd at etholiadau nesaf y Cynulliad heb grybwyll iechyd o gwbl. Dyma un llanast mawr y buoch yn gyfrifol amdano ers 1999. Fodd bynnag, yn eich maniffesto yn 1999, gwnaethoch addo, gydag Alun Michael, na fyddai neb, ar ddiwedd tymor cyntaf Llafur, yn disgwyl mwy na chwe mis am driniaeth cleifion allanol, neu fwy na 18 mis am driniaeth cleifion mewnol. Pa gynnydd a wneir ar yr addewidion hynny?

Rhodri Morgan The First Minister spoken in English p. 29

Rhodri Morgan Y Prif Weinidog siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 29

I was restricted by time in my answer to Rhodri Glyn Thomas’s earlier question, and therefore could not cover all of the Assembly administration’s priorities up until the election. Therefore, you should not read anything into that. We continue to meet our cardiac surgery waiting times. That was achieved by March 2002, and there were no breaches up to the end of October in that undertaking. The orthopaedics target was met by July 2002, although there are problems with it in the Gwent area, and we are currently working towards reducing the waiting times for cataract surgery, which are too long. The number of orthopaedic patients waiting over 18 months have fallen by over 50 per cent in the last quarter.

Yr oedd amser yn cyfyngu ar fy ateb i gwestiwn Rhodri Glyn Thomas yn gynharach, ac felly ni allwn ymdrin â holl flaenoriaethau gweinyddiaeth y Cynulliad hyd at yr etholiad. Felly, ni ddylech ddehongli dim ar sail hynny. Yr ydym yn dal i gyrraedd ein hamseroedd aros am lawdriniaeth gardïaidd. Cyflawnwyd hynny erbyn Mawrth 2002 ac, hyd at ddiwedd Hydref, ni thorrwyd ein haddewid yn hynny o beth. Cyrhaeddwyd y targed ar orthopedeg erbyn Gorffennaf 2002, er bod problemau yn ei gylch yn ardal Gwent, ac yr ydym yn gweithio ar hyn o bryd i leihau’r amseroedd aros am lawdriniaeth cataract, sy’n rhy hir. Bu gostyngiad o dros 50 y cant yn y chwarter diwethaf yn nifer y cleifion orthopedig sy’n disgwyl dros 18 mis.

Nick Bourne spoken in English p. 29

Nick Bourne siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 29

You answered for some time on priorities, First Minister. You mentioned four priorities, including the Welsh baccalaureate, which, presumably, is more important to you than waiting lists, which you did not mention. However, I return to the serious waiting lists position. Will you make fresh promises on waiting lists to the people of Wales in your next manifesto and, if so, what reason do they have to believe them, given the broken promises in the last one? You made a promise on waiting lists again in ‘Plan for Wales 2001’ in October 2001, and there has been no progress on it. You even had a slap on the wrist from the Secretary of State for Wales, who said that the waiting lists position in Wales was not good. What are you doing to tackle that?

Rhoesoch ateb eithaf hir ar flaenoriaethau, Brif Weinidog. Gwnaethoch sôn am bedair blaenoriaeth, gan gynnwys y fagloriaeth Gymreig, sydd, gellir cymryd, yn bwysicach i chi nag y mae rhestrau aros, na wnaethoch eu crybwyll. Fodd bynnag, dychwelaf at y sefyllfa ddifrifol o ran rhestrau aros. A wnewch addewidion newydd ar restrau aros i bobl Cymru yn eich maniffesto nesaf ac, os gwnewch, pa reswm sydd ganddynt i’w coelio, o ystyried y tor-addewidion yn yr un diwethaf? Gwnaethoch addewid ar restrau aros eto yn ‘Cynllun i Gymru 2001’ yn Hydref 2001, ac ni fu cynnydd arni. Cawsoch hyd yn oed gerydd bach gan Ysgrifennydd Gwladol Cymru, a ddywedodd nad oedd y sefyllfa o ran rhestrau aros yng Nghymru’n un dda. Beth yr ydych yn ei wneud i fynd i’r afael â hynny?

Rhodri Morgan The First Minister spoken in English p. 30

Rhodri Morgan Y Prif Weinidog siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 30

We are investing money in tackling it. We are increasing the intake of medical students by 89 per cent. We would increase it faster if we could find the lecturers and professors for the medical schools. Between 1999 and 2005, at the end of this programme, we will almost double the intake of medical students. As a result, we are educating more of our own doctors and, therefore, eventually, more of our own consultants. The increases in nurse education are similar. The only way that you can increase the health service’s treatment capacity is to educate more of the staff that you require. We cannot carry on stripping South Africa and Zimbabwe of all their doctors, and the Philippines of its nurses—we must educate more of our own staff. When you do that, you have a greater capacity to treat, but you do not see the pay-off for 10 years. We are not feeling the benefit now because your Government messed up the targets for training medical students and nurses. That is the problem.

Yr ydym yn buddsoddi arian i fynd i’r afael ag ef. Yr ydym yn derbyn 89 y cant yn fwy o fyfyrwyr meddygol. Byddem yn cynyddu’r nifer a dderbynnir yn gynt pe gallem ddod o hyd i’r darlithwyr a’r athrawon y mae arnom eu hangen i’r ysgolion meddygol. Rhwng 1999 a 2005, ar ddiwedd y rhaglen hon, byddwn bron â dyblu’r nifer o fyfyrwyr meddygol a dderbynnir. O ganlyniad, yr ydym yn addysgu mwy o’n meddygon ein hun ac, felly, yn y pen draw, mwy o’n hymgynghorwyr. Mae’r cynnydd mewn addysg nyrsys yn debyg. Yr unig fodd y gellir cynyddu capasiti triniaeth y gwasanaeth iechyd yw addysgu mwy o’r staff sydd eu hangen. Ni allwn barhau i gymryd holl feddygon De Affrica a Zimbabwe oddi arnynt, a holl nyrsys Ynysoedd y Philipinos—rhaid inni addysgu mwy o’n staff ein hunain. Pan wneir hynny, ceir mwy o allu i drin, ond ni welir y canlyniad am 10 mlynedd. Nid ydym yn gweld y budd yn awr am fod eich Llywodraeth chi wedi drysu’r targedau ar gyfer hyfforddi myfyrwyr meddygol a nyrsys. Dyna’r broblem.

David Lloyd siaradwyd yn Gymraeg t. 30

David Lloyd spoken in Welsh p. 30

Beth yw’r datblygiadau diweddaraf ynghylch polisi’r Cynulliad i sicrhau gofal personol i’r henoed am ddim?

What are the latest developments on the Assembly’s policy of securing free personal care for the elderly?

Rhodri Morgan Y Prif Weinidog siaradwyd yn Gymraeg t. 30

Rhodri Morgan The First Minister spoken in Welsh p. 30

Yr ydym yn parhau i bwyso ar Lywodraeth San Steffan i wneud hynny yn rhan o’i ymateb i’r Comisiwn Brenhinol gwreiddiol, sef Comisiwn Sutherland.

We are continuing to press the Westminster Government to provide free care as part of its response to the original Royal Commission, namely the Sutherland Commission.

Datganiad ar Gylch Gorchwyl yr Adolygiad Arfaethedig o Awdurdodau’r Parciau Cenedlaethol yng Nghymru

Statement on the Terms of Reference of the Proposed Review of National Park Authorities in Wales

Sue Essex The Minister for Environment spoken in English p. 30

Sue Essex Y Gweinidog dros yr Amgylchedd siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 30

The national park authorities in Wales were established in their current form as special purpose local authorities under the Environment Act 1995. They have made good progress on several fronts, but the context in which they operate is changing, not least following the National Assembly’s inception, and there are new challenges. Therefore, a review of national parks is now appropriate.

Sefydlwyd awdurdodau’r parciau cenedlaethol yng Nghymru ar eu ffurf bresennol fel awdurdodau lleol pwrpas arbennig o dan Ddeddf yr Amgylchedd 1995. Gwnaethant gynnydd da mewn sawl maes, ond mae’r cyd-destun y gweithredant oddi mewn iddo’n newid, ar ôl sefydlu’r Cynulliad Cenedlaethol yn fwy na dim, ac mae heriau newydd. Gan hynny, mae’n briodol cynnal adolygiad o’r parciau cenedlaethol yn awr.

The three Welsh national parks cover some 20 per cent of Wales and are internationally important. The landscape and other special qualities of these jewels in the Welsh crown need protecting. However, these areas also contain important communities, which need to be sustained. The park authorities today face several competing pressures and priorities. Agriculture, for example, is a major determinant of the parks’ landscape and is changing in response to policy shifts and market forces. How can the parks sensibly adapt or influence that? An increasingly mobile public means that the parks are more accessible to larger numbers of people, creating visitor pressure points. This situation needs to be managed effectively and sustainable transport solutions should be utilised where possible. As part of that, there is scope for the parks to take more action to engage with the public, including people living inside and immediately outside the parks’ boundaries. I am also keen for parks to be test-beds for sustainable development, so that we can build on the excellent work they have already undertaken in utilising the environment development fund, now more appropriately renamed the sustainable development fund.

Mae’r tri pharc cenedlaethol yng Nghymru’n cynnwys tua 20 y cant o Gymru ac maent o bwys rhyngwladol. Mae angen diogelu’r tirwedd a’r rhinweddau arbennig eraill sydd gan y tlysau hyn yng nghoron Cymru. Fodd bynnag, mae’r ardaloedd hyn yn cynnwys cymunedau pwysig hefyd, y mae angen eu cynnal. Yn yr oes sydd ohoni mae awdurdodau’r parciau’n wynebu nifer o bwysau a blaenoriaethau sy’n cystadlu yn erbyn ei gilydd. Amaethyddiaeth, er enghraifft, yw un o brif benderfynyddion tirwedd y parciau ac mae’n newid mewn ymateb i symudiadau polisi a grymoedd y farchnad. Sut y gall y parciau addasu’n synhwyrol neu ddylanwadu ar hynny? Gan fod y cyhoedd yn fwyfwy symudol, mae’r parciau’n fwy hygyrch yn awr i fwy o bobl, ac mae hynny’n creu gwasgbwyntiau ymwelwyr. Rhaid rheoli’r sefyllfa hon yn effeithiol a dylid defnyddio atebion trafnidiaeth cynaliadwy lle y bo modd. Fel rhan o hynny, mae cyfle i’r parciau gymryd rhagor o gamau i gysylltu â’r cyhoedd, gan gynnwys pobl sy’n byw yn y parciau ac yn eu cyffiniau. Yr wyf hefyd yn awyddus i’r parciau fod yn feinciau arbrofi ar gyfer datblygu cynaliadwy, fel y gallwn adeiladu ar sail y gwaith rhagorol a wnaethant eisoes wrth ddefnyddio cronfa datblygu’r amgylchedd, a ailenwyd yn fwy priodol yn awr yn gronfa datblygu cynaliadwy.

The park authorities not only have responsibility for managing national assets, but also for supporting their local communities. They have an important role to play in the social and economic development of their areas. I want to see the park authorities’ role in rural development being further developed in a sensible way without duplicating or cutting across the role of other key players. Another key issue is how the parks can be assisted to engage more effectively with their local communities so that the parks are viewed as a positive influence that are responsive to local needs.

Mae awdurdodau’r parciau’n gyfrifol nid yn unig am reoli asedau cenedlaethol, ond hefyd am gynnal eu cymunedau lleol. Mae ganddynt rôl bwysig yn natblygiad cymdeithasol ac economaidd eu hardaloedd. Dymunaf weld datblygu pellach ar rôl awdurdodau’r parciau mewn datblygu gwledig a hynny mewn modd synhwyrol heb ddyblygu neu dorri ar draws rôl cyfranwyr allweddol eraill. Un mater allweddol arall yw sut y gellir helpu’r parciau i ymwneud yn fwy effeithiol â’u cymunedau lleol fel y caiff y parciau eu hystyried yn ddylanwad cadarnhaol sy’n ymateb i anghenion lleol.

I will now turn to the proposed review and its focus. The terms of reference that are being drawn up identify four key issues to be addressed. First is the role of the parks. How can the role and influence of the park authorities be strengthened in a useful way and include rural development? What further action can the parks take, with partners such as the Forestry Commission, to help secure a more fully integrated approach to the management of the countryside? Secondly is the promotion of sustainable development. How can the parks’ potential contribution to sustainable development be maximised and include the development of vibrant local communities? Would stronger links to the five areas of outstanding natural beauty in Wales be mutually beneficial in that regard? Thirdly, there are rural-urban links. What further action can the park authorities take to reach out to communities beyond their boundaries, to promote social inclusion and access for all, and break down the perceived rural-urban divide? Fourthly is support for local communities. How can the park authorities become more responsive and accountable to their local communities? Do we need changes in terms of democratic representation? The review will examine whether introducing a new category of directly elected members could assist in improving local democracy and the accountability of the park authorities.

Trof yn awr at yr adolygiad arfaethedig a’r hyn y bydd yn canolbwyntio arno. Mae’r cylch gorchwyl sy’n cael ei lunio’n nodi pedwar mater allweddol sydd i’w trafod. Y cyntaf yw rôl y parciau. Sut y gellir cryfhau rôl a dylanwad awdurdodau’r parciau mewn modd defnyddiol gan gynnwys datblygu gwledig? Pa gamau pellach y gall y parciau eu cymryd, gyda phartneriaid fel y Comisiwn Coedwigaeth, i helpu i sicrhau dull mwy integredig o reoli cefn gwlad? Yr ail yw hyrwyddo datblygu cynaliadwy. Sut y gellir gwneud y mwyaf o gyfraniad posibl y parciau at ddatblygu cynaliadwy gan gynnwys datblygu cymunedau lleol bywiog? A fyddai cysylltiadau cryfach â’r pum ardal o harddwch naturiol eithriadol yng Nghymru’n fuddiol i’r naill a’r llall yn hynny o beth? Yn drydydd y mae cysylltiadau gwledig-trefol. Pa gamau pellach y gall awdurdodau’r parciau eu cymryd i estyn at gymunedau y tu hwnt i’w ffiniau, i hyrwyddo cynhwysiant cymdeithasol a mynediad i bawb, a chwalu’r rhaniad gwledig-trefol a ganfyddir? Yn bedwerydd y mae cymorth i gymunedau lleol. Sut y gall awdurdodau’r parciau ddod yn fwy ymatebol ac atebol i’w cymunedau lleol? A oes arnom angen newidiadau o ran cynrychiolaeth ddemocrataidd? Bydd yr adolygiad yn ymchwilio i ganfod a fyddai cyflwyno categori newydd o aelodau a etholir yn uniongyrchol yn gallu gwella democratiaeth leol ac atebolrwydd awdurdodau’r parciau.

I want the review to focus on these four core issues and to produce practical, action-based recommendations.

Yr wyf am i’r adolygiad ganolbwyntio ar y pedwar mater craidd hyn a chynhyrchu argymhellion ymarferol sy’n seiliedig ar weithredu.

The national parks in England were reviewed earlier this year. The review of the Welsh national parks should take appropriate account of that review’s findings and focus on the issues most pertinent to the situation in Wales. I intend to commission external consultants to undertake this important review, and a steering group reporting to me will oversee their work. The steering group will include an acknowledged expert in protected landscape and conservation matters, as well as other relevant expertise. Preparatory work is underway to invite competitive tenders for this important exercise. I envisage that the review work will commence formally in February. All key stakeholders, including those who live in the parks, will have an opportunity to contribute. The review is expected to take about six months to complete.

Adolygwyd y parciau cenedlaethol yn Lloegr yn gynharach eleni. Dylai’r adolygiad o’r parciau cenedlaethol yng Nghymru roi sylw priodol i ganfyddiadau’r adolygiad hwnnw a chanolbwyntio ar y materion sy’n fwyaf perthnasol i’r sefyllfa yng Nghymru. Bwriadaf gomisiynu ymgynghorwyr allanol i ymgymryd â’r adolygiad pwysig hwn, a bydd grŵp llywio sy’n adrodd i mi’n goruchwylio eu gwaith. Bydd y grŵp llywio’n cynnwys arbenigwr cydnabyddedig mewn materion tirlun gwarchodedig a materion cadwraeth, yn ogystal ag arbenigeddau perthnasol eraill. Mae gwaith paratoadol ar y gweill i wahodd tendrau cystadleuol am y gwaith pwysig hwn. Rhagwelaf y bydd gwaith yr adolygiad yn dechrau’n ffurfiol ym mis Chwefror. Bydd yr holl randdeiliaid allweddol, gan gynnwys y rhai sy’n byw yn y parciau, yn cael cyfle i gyfrannu. Disgwylir cwblhau’r adolygiad ymhen tua chwe mis.

I have recently consulted with the Environment, Planning and Transport Committee on my plans. Members of the Committee made some valuable observations and endorsed the approach that I have taken. I have the support of the national park authorities and the Countryside Council for Wales in taking this forward.

Yr wyf wedi ymgynghori’n ddiweddar â Phwyllgor yr Amgylchedd, Cynllunio a Thrafnidiaeth ar fy nghynlluniau. Gwnaeth aelodau o’r Pwyllgor rai sylwadau gwerthfawr gan gefnogi’r dull gweithredu a ddefnyddiais. Cefais gefnogaeth gan awdurdodau’r parciau cenedlaethol a Chyngor Cefn Gwlad Cymru wrth fwrw ymlaen â hyn.

Phil Williams spoken in English p. 33

Phil Williams siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 33

An independent review of the park authorities is timely but it must be comprehensive. In some ways, the proposed review is narrow. We welcome the fact that the park authorities will be test-beds for sustainable development, but there are three strands to sustainable development: economic, community and environmental. Should not the review consider how potential conflicts between economic and environmental sustainability are best resolved? An obvious matter for consideration would be the appropriate development of renewable energy and energy conservation. Will the review consider what guidelines the authorities should follow in acting as planning authorities on such matters? What use should they make of the work carried out by the Countryside Council for Wales on setting objective criteria? That leads to my main question. Section 62 of the Environment Act 1995 places a duty on all public bodies to have regard to the national parks. However, at the same time, you proposed that the park authorities should have a role in rural development without duplicating or cutting across the role of other key players. You also want to secure a more integrated approach with bodies such as the Forestry Commission to the management of the countryside. Do you therefore agree that the review should consider the establishment of closer formal links between the park authorities and the Welsh Development Agency and the Wales Tourist Board, and, above all, between the park authorities and the Countryside Council for Wales, the Environment Agency Wales and the Forestry Commission? Is it necessary to have four different bodies with such closely overlapping responsibilities? At some stage, we must at least consider the advantages and disadvantages of merging or establishing closer formal links between those organisations. All of these bodies have been reviewed separately and this issue has not come up in any of the independent reviews. Do you agree that it would be appropriate for this review to start considering that question? Finally, do you agree that by integrating the park authorities in such a framework, the problem of the sharp boundaries and the links between urban and rural areas could be properly solved?

Mae adolygiad annibynnol o awdurdodau’r parciau yn amserol ond rhaid iddo fod yn gynhwysfawr. Ar ryw ystyr, mae’r adolygiad arfaethedig yn gyfyng. Croesawn y ffaith y bydd awdurdodau’r parciau’n feinciau arbrofi i ddatblygu cynaliadwy, ond mae tair elfen mewn datblygu cynaliadwy: un economaidd, un gymunedol ac un amgylcheddol. Oni ddylai’r adolygiad ystyried y dull gorau o ddatrys y gwrthdaro posibl rhwng cynaliadwyedd economaidd ac amgylcheddol? Un mater amlwg i’w ystyried fyddai datblygu priodol ar ynni adnewyddadwy a chadwraeth ynni. A fydd yr adolygiad yn ystyried y canllawiau y dylai’r awdurdodau eu dilyn wrth weithredu fel awdurdodau cynllunio ar faterion o’r fath? Pa ddefnydd y dylent ei wneud o’r gwaith a wnaed gan Gyngor Cefn Gwlad Cymru ar osod meini prawf gwrthrychol? Mae hynny’n arwain at y prif gwestiwn sydd gennyf. Mae adran 62 o Ddeddf yr Amgylchedd 1995 yn ei gwneud yn ddyletswydd ar bob corff cyhoeddus i roi sylw i’r parciau cenedlaethol. Er hynny, ar yr un pryd, gwnaethoch gynnig y dylai awdurdodau’r parciau fod â rôl mewn datblygu gwledig heb ddyblygu neu dorri ar draws rôl y cyfranwyr allweddol eraill. Yr ydych hefyd am sicrhau agwedd fwy integredig gyda chyrff fel y Comisiwn Coedwigaeth at reoli cefn gwlad. A ydych yn cytuno felly y dylai’r adolygiad ystyried sefydlu cysylltiadau ffurfiol agosach rhwng awdurdodau’r parciau ac Awdurdod Datblygu Cymru a Bwrdd Croeso Cymru, ac, yn fwy na dim, rhwng awdurdodau’r parciau a Chyngor Cefn Gwlad Cymru, Asiantaeth yr Amgylchedd Cymru a’r Comisiwn Coedwigaeth? A oes angen pedwar corff gwahanol gyda chyfrifoldebau sy’n gorgyffwrdd mor agos? Ar ryw adeg, bydd yn rhaid inni o leiaf ystyried y manteision a’r anfanteision o gyfuno neu sefydlu cysylltiadau ffurfiol agosach rhwng y cyrff hynny. Adolygwyd pob un o’r cyrff hynny ar wahân ac ni chododd y mater hwn yn yr un o’r adolygiadau annibynnol. A gytunwch y byddai’n briodol i’r adolygiad hwn ddechrau ystyried y cwestiwn hwnnw? Yn olaf, a ydych yn cytuno y byddai integreiddio awdurdodau’r parciau mewn fframwaith o’r fath yn fodd priodol i ddatrys problem y ffiniau pendant a’r cysylltiadau rhwng ardaloedd trefol a gwledig?

Sue Essex spoken in English p. 34

Sue Essex siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 34

You raised many points, which you and your party will want to raise in the review as it develops. As regards your point about sustainable development, that issue is dealt with in planning guidance for all local authorities and developers. The National Park Authorities have had a particular role to play in the sustainable development scheme, and the sustainable development fund; a role that also includes looking at the way in which they work. The Assembly Government will work in conjunction with our partners to develop appraisal tools that will support local authorities and National Park Authorities across Wales.

Bu ichi godi llawer o bwyntiau y byddwch chi a’ch plaid am eu codi yn yr adolygiad wrth iddo ddatblygu. Ynghylch y pwynt a wnaethoch am ddatblygu cynaliadwy, ymdrinnir â’r mater hwnnw yn y canllawiau cynllunio ar gyfer yr holl awdurdodau lleol a datblygwyr. Mae gan Awdurdodau’r Parciau Cenedlaethol rôl benodol i’w chwarae yn y cynllun datblygu cynaliadwy, a’r gronfa datblygu cynaliadwy; rôl sydd hefyd yn cynnwys ystyried y modd y maent yn gweithio. Bydd Llywodraeth y Cynulliad yn gweithio ar y cyd â’n partneriaid i ddatblygu offer gwerthuso a fydd yn cynorthwyo awdurdodau lleol ac Awdurdodau’r Parciau Cenedlaethol ledled Cymru.

You mentioned the need for closer links and integration. That issue is clearly addressed in the four key areas that I outlined. It is perhaps now, as we consider integration and the way in which the economy works, that we understand that it is important for organisations to have practical links with other organisations. We try to promote that kind of partnership across Wales. Part of the review will concentrate on the other relationships that the National Park Authorities must establish to respond to the socio-economic welfare needs of their communities.

Gwnaethoch sôn am yr angen am gysylltiadau agosach ac integreiddio. Ymdrinnir yn bendant â’r mater hwnnw yn y pedwar maes allweddol a ddisgrifiais. Efallai ein bod yn sylweddoli’n awr, wrth inni ystyried integreiddio a’r modd y mae’r economi’n gweithio, ei bod yn bwysig i gyrff gael cysylltiadau ymarferol â chyrff eraill. Ceisiwn hyrwyddo partneriaeth o’r fath ledled Cymru. Bydd rhan o’r adolygiad yn canolbwyntio ar y cysylltiadau eraill y mae’n rhaid i Awdurdodau’r Parciau Cenedlaethol eu sefydlu i ymateb i anghenion lles cymdeithasol-economaidd eu cymunedau.

Clearly, the park authorities have a relationship with CCW; whether that needs to be changed, amended or modified will come out in the review. As you said, their relationships with the WDA and the Wales Tourist Board may not be so explicit. You made some suggestions about how this matter should be approached. Perhaps those or other approaches could be put into operation to achieve closer integration. You have made some valuable points that I am sure will emerge during the review and which will be raised in Committee and in Plenary.

Wrth gwrs, mae gan awdurdodau’r parciau berthynas â Chyngor Cefn Gwlad Cymru; ceir gweld wedi’r adolygiad a fydd angen ei newid, ei diwygio neu’i haddasu. Fel y dywedasoch, mae’n bosibl nad yw eu cysylltiadau â’r WDA a Bwrdd Croeso Cymru mor amlwg. Gwnaethoch rai awgrymiadau am y modd y gellid mynd ynghylch y mater hwn. Efallai y gellid rhoi’r dulliau gweithredu hynny, neu rai eraill, ar waith i sicrhau integreiddio mwy clòs. Gwnaethoch rai pwyntiau gwerthfawr yr wyf yn sicr y deuant i’r amlwg yn ystod yr adolygiad ac a godir yn y Pwyllgor a’r Cyfarfod Llawn.

Alun Pugh spoken in English p. 35

Alun Pugh siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 35

I am glad that you mentioned the leading role of national parks in sustainable development. There is an unsustainable growth of car-based traffic in the Snowdonia National Park yet public transport links are often poor. Can the commission consider tolling car-based entry to national parks, with appropriate exemptions for those who live and work there, to create a ring-fenced fund to support public transport, landscape protection and environmental improvement?

Yr wyf yn falch eich bod wedi sôn am rôl arweiniol y parciau cenedlaethol mewn datblygu cynaliadwy. Mae cynnydd anghynaliadwy mewn traffig ceir ym Mharc Cenedlaethol Eryri ac eto mae’r cysylltiadau trafnidiaeth gyhoeddus yn aml yn wael. A all y comisiwn ystyried codi tollau am fynd i’r parciau cenedlaethol mewn ceir, gan eithrio’n briodol y rhai sy’n byw ac yn gweithio yno, er mwyn creu cronfa wedi’i phridiannu i gynnal trafnidiaeth gyhoeddus, diogelu’r tirlun a gwella’r amgylchedd?

Sue Essex spoken in English p. 35

Sue Essex siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 35

The review is more about process and governance issues than individual policies. Therefore it would not be fair to tell the consultants that they must examine a specific policy in a specific national park. Of course under the innovative transport grant action programme, we gave money to Gwynedd and Snowdonia—and I think that Conway was involved—to consider green transfer issues on the ground. I know that that has been difficult because passions are raised on both sides, but we may be able to take policies forward by using that mechanism for dealing with individual policies and funding. By and large, the review will examine governance and relationship issues rather than individual policy areas.

Mae’r adolygiad yn ymwneud yn fwy â materion prosesau a llywodraethu na pholisïau unigol. Gan hynny, ni fyddai’n deg dweud wrth yr ymgynghorwyr fod rhaid iddynt ymchwilio i bolisi penodol mewn parc cenedlaethol penodol. Wrth gwrs, o dan y rhaglen gweithredu grant trafnidiaeth arloesol, rhoesom arian i Wynedd ac Eryri—a chredaf fod Conwy yn gysylltiedig—i ystyried materion trosglwyddo gwyrdd ar lawr gwlad. Gwn fod hynny wedi profi’n anodd gan fod y mater hwn yn ennyn teimladau cryf ar y ddwy ochr, ond efallai y byddwn yn gallu datblygu polisïau drwy ddefnyddio’r peirianwaith hwnnw i ymdrin â pholisïau unigol a chyllido. Bydd yr adolygiad yn ystyried materion llywodraethu a chysylltiadau yn bennaf, yn hytrach na meysydd polisi unigol.

David Davies spoken in English p. 35

David Davies siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 35

I also welcome the report, which I believe is long overdue—an opinion that is shared by many people living in national parks areas; part of my constituency falls within the Brecon Beacons National Park area. Alun Pugh mentioned heavy transport in those areas, and that is an issue. However, many local people feel that the introduction of any form of charging would simply penalise them for living in the countryside. There are two sides to this argument and that brings me to the report’s central theme of accountability. A solution must be found to the traffic problem and to the sustainable development problem within national parks. National park authorities must have the confidence of local people, and people do not currently have that confidence because decisions are taken without consultation.

Yr wyf finnau’n croesawu’r adroddiad, a chredaf ei bod yn hen bryd ei gael—ac mae llawer sy’n byw yn ardaloedd y parciau cenedlaethol o’r un farn; mae rhan o’m hetholaeth i yn ardal Parc Cenedlaethol Bannau Brycheiniog. Soniodd Alun Pugh am y drafnidiaeth drom yn yr ardaloedd hynny, ac mae hynny’n fater pwysig. Er hynny, mae llawer o bobl leol yn teimlo y byddai cyflwyno unrhyw fath o daliadau’n gosb arnynt hwy am fyw yng nghefn gwlad. Mae dwy ochr i’r ddadl hon a daw hynny â mi at thema ganolog yr adroddiad, sef atebolrwydd. Rhaid canfod ateb i’r broblem traffig a’r broblem datblygu cynaliadwy o fewn parciau cenedlaethol. Rhaid i bobl leol allu ymddiried yn awdurdodau’r parciau cenedlaethol, ac nid yw pobl yn ymddiried ynddynt ar hyn o bryd am y gwneir penderfyniadau heb ymgynghori.

In the short term, one way to solve that would be to ensure that any appointees to a national park authority live within, or at least represent, the park area. Many local authority appointees come from outside the national park area, and local people do not deem them to be fully aware of what is going on. In the longer term, we must also consider holding elections to authority posts in the national park areas, allowing only those who live within the park’s boundaries to vote. That would ensure that decisions taken on behalf of local people are fully accountable.

Yn y tymor byr, un modd i ddatrys hynny fyddai sicrhau bod unrhyw un a benodir i awdurdod parc cenedlaethol yn byw yn ardal y parc, neu’n ei chynrychioli o leiaf. Mae llawer a benodir gan awdurdodau lleol yn dod o’r tu allan i ardal y parc cenedlaethol, ac nid yw pobl leol yn ystyried eu bod yn llwyr ymwybodol o’r hyn sy’n mynd ymlaen. Yn y tymor hwy, rhaid inni hefyd ystyried cynnal etholiadau i swyddi’r awdurdod yn ardaloedd y parciau cenedlaethol, gan roi pleidlais i’r rhai sy’n byw o fewn ffiniau’r parc yn unig. Byddai hynny’n sicrhau bod y penderfyniadau a wneir ar ran pobl leol yn gwbl atebol.

I know why the national parks were set up—to preserve what you called the ‘jewels in the Welsh crown’. Safeguards can be built into planning legislation to ensure that national park members could not be elected with a view to allowing developments left, right and centre. The current situation is unsatisfactory; there is a lack of democratic accountability in how national parks are run. If in considering this review you will help to make park authorities more accountable, all parties in the Chamber would welcome it.

Gwn pam y sefydlwyd y parciau cenedlaethol—i gadw’r hyn y gwnaethoch ei alw’n ‘dlysau yng nghoron Cymru’. Gellir cynnwys mesurau diogelwch mewn deddfwriaeth cynllunio i sicrhau na ellid ethol aelodau i barc cenedlaethol gyda golwg ar ganiatáu datblygu ym mhob man. Mae’r sefyllfa bresennol yn anfoddhaol; mae diffyg atebolrwydd democrataidd yn y dull o redeg parciau cenedlaethol. Os byddwch, wrth ystyried yr adolygiad hwn, yn helpu i wneud awdurdodau’r parciau’n fwy atebol, byddai pob plaid yn y Siambr yn croesawu hynny.

Sue Essex spoken in English p. 36

Sue Essex siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 36

To start with accountability, I just said in my statement that we are considering that, as well as whether or not there is a role for directly elected members. Wales and England have not had directly elected members before, but it is being tried out in the new Loch Lomond and the Trossachs National Park in Scotland. There, authority members are appointed on a 40:40:20 percentage ratio, so that 20 per cent are directly elected.

Gan ddechrau ag atebolrwydd, yr wyf newydd ddweud yn fy natganiad ein bod yn ystyried hynny, a hefyd a oes rôl i aelodau a etholir yn uniongyrchol. Nid yw Cymru a Lloegr wedi cael aelodau a etholwyd yn uniongyrchol o’r blaen, ond rhoddir cynnig ar hynny ym Mharc Cenedlaethol newydd Llyn Llumonwy a’r Trossachs yn yr Alban. Yn y fan honno, penodir aelodau’r awdurdod yn ôl cymhareb ganrannol o 40:40:20, fel bod 20 y cant yn cael eu hethol yn uniongyrchol.

One aspect of this review is to pick up on representation being fit for the national parks’ purpose. They are national parks for a reason—in fact, they are international parks. They include an element of national policy and we must find the correct balance. Despite all the pressures placed on the national park authorities, they have worked well, although issues and problems arise occasionally. The best way to resolve this is to decide on the parks’ purpose, and for representation to be compatible with that purpose.

Un agwedd ar yr adolygiad hwn yw ystyried yr angen i’r gynrychiolaeth fod yn addas i ddiben y parciau cenedlaethol. Maent yn barciau cenedlaethol am reswm—a dweud y gwir, parciau rhyngwladol ydynt. Maent yn cynnwys elfen o bolisi cenedlaethol a rhaid inni ddod o hyd i’r cydbwysedd cywir. Er gwaethaf yr holl bwysau ar awdurdodau’r parciau cenedlaethol, maent wedi gweithio’n dda, er bod materion a phroblemau’n codi o bryd i’w gilydd. Y dull gorau o ddatrys hyn yw penderfynu ar bwrpas y parciau, a sicrhau bod y gynrychiolaeth yn gydwedd â’r pwrpas hwnnw.

Another aspect of compatibility is the competing requirements of people living within the park and those of its visitors, and we must find a way through. As I said, accessibility to national parks is currently good; parks in Wales can be reached from a wide geographic area. That can cause congestion problems but it also boosts the local economy. We must create links, so that visitors appreciate that people have to live and work in the parks and people who live there must learn to understand that visitors bring jobs and are good for the local economy. For the most part, the people I talk to are proud of the areas in which they live, and are happy to share them with visitors. However, the review is concerned with compatibility and striking the right balance.

Agwedd arall ar gydweddoldeb yw’r cystadlu rhwng anghenion y bobl sy’n byw o fewn y parc ac anghenion y rhai sy’n ymweld, a rhaid inni ganfod ffordd ymlaen. Fel y dywedais, mae’r parciau cenedlaethol yn hygyrch ar hyn o bryd; gellir cyrraedd y parciau yng Nghymru o ardal ddaearyddol eang. Gall hynny beri problemau o ran tagfeydd ond mae hefyd yn hybu’r economi leol. Rhaid inni greu cysylltiadau, fel bod ymwelwyr yn gwerthfawrogi bod pobl yn gorfod byw a gweithio yn y parciau a rhaid i’r bobl sy’n byw yno ddysgu deall bod ymwelwyr yn dod â swyddi ac yn gwneud lles i’r economi leol. Gan mwyaf, mae’r bobl y siaradaf fi â hwy’n falch o’r ardaloedd y maent yn byw ynddynt, ac yn fodlon eu rhannu ag ymwelwyr. Fodd bynnag, mae’r adolygiad yn ymwneud â chydweddoldeb a sicrhau’r cydbwysedd cywir.

Kirsty Williams spoken in English p. 37

Kirsty Williams siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 37

Thank you for your statement today, Minister; it is welcome. I have a home in a national park but it can feel like a double-edged sword. As you rightly say, we are proud of the environment in which we live—some of the most spectacular areas of Wales are to be found in our national parks—and we also welcome the economic opportunities afforded by living in a national park. However, there is often a feeling that those of us who live and work there are treated as though we were in a museum—as something to stare at. The needs of a living and working population, resident all year round, are not really considered.

Diolch i chi am eich datganiad heddiw, Weinidog; mae i’w groesawu. Mae gennyf gartref mewn parc cenedlaethol ond gall hynny deimlo’n debyg i gleddyf daufiniog. Fel y dywedasoch, yr ydym yn falch o’r amgylchedd lle’r ydym yn byw—mae rhai o’r ardaloedd godidocaf yng Nghymru yn ein parciau cenedlaethol—ac yr ydym hefyd yn creosawu’r cyfleoedd economaidd a geir o fyw mewn parc cenedlaethol. Er hynny, mae teimlad yn aml fod y rheini ohonom sy’n byw ac yn gweithio yno’n cael ein trin fel pe byddem mewn amgueddfa—fel rhywbeth i syllu arno. Mewn gwirionedd, nid ystyrir anghenion y boblogaeth sy’n byw ac yn gweithio yno gydol y flwyddyn.

Even before I came to the Assembly, I was aware of the uneasy relationship that many of the residents of the Brecon Beacons National Park suffer with the park authority. Sometimes, I think that there is good reason for that uneasy relationship, but it is also a shame that we do not recognise its good work, especially in sustainable development. Without support from the national park, neither the Brecon farmers’ market nor the innovative scheme of solar power regeneration in individuals’ homes would exist.

Hyd yn oed cyn imi ddod i’r Cynulliad, yr oeddwn yn ymwybodol o’r berthynas anesmwyth y mae llawer o drigolion Parc Cenedlaethol Bannau Brycheiniog yn ei dioddef ag awdurdod y parc. Weithiau, credaf fod rheswm da am y berthynas anesmwyth honno, ond mae’n drueni hefyd nad ydym yn cydnabod ei waith da, yn enwedig mewn datblygu cynaliadwy. Heb gymorth gan y parc cenedlaethol, ni fyddai’r farchnad ffermwyr yn Aberhonddu na’r cynllun arloesol i gynhyrchu ynni o’r haul yng nghartrefi unigolion yn bodoli.

While there are good things going on in the park, too often it is the difficulties and the bad news that hit the headlines. That is why I am particularly pleased that the issues of representation and governance within the national park have been included in the review. You will be aware of the recent horrendous case in the Brecon Beacons National Park, which has cost the park’s reputation, as well as taxpayers, dear. We must consider how people are appointed to national park authorities, and I welcome the commitment to consider direct elections, which are now happening in Scotland. However, we must also consider the issue of training and support for people who become authority members, which was picked up recently in the ombudsman’s devastating report of the Brecon Beacons National Park.

Er bod pethau da’n mynd ymlaen yn y parc, yr anawsterau a’r newyddion drwg a welir yn y penawdau’n rhy aml. Dyna pam yr wyf yn arbennig o falch bod materion cynrychiolaeth a llywodraethu o fewn y parc cenedlaethol wedi’u cynnwys yn yr adolygiad. Byddwch yn ymwybodol o’r achos erchyll diweddar ym Mharc Cenedlaethol Bannau Brycheiniog, sydd wedi costio’n ddrud i enw da’r parc, yn ogystal â’r trethdalwyr. Rhaid inni ystyried sut y penodir pobl i awdurdodau’r parciau cenedlaethol, a chroesawaf yr ymrwymiad i ystyried etholiadau uniongyrchol, sy’n digwydd bellach yn yr Alban. Fodd bynnag, rhaid inni hefyd ystyried y mater o hyfforddiant a chymorth i’r rhai sy’n dod yn aelodau o awdurdodau, a nodwyd yn ddiweddar yn adroddiad deifiol yr ombwdsmon ar Barc Cenedlaethol Bannau Brycheiniog.

I also welcome the commitment to consider the role of national parks in economic development. There is confusion on that. Parks seem to think it is the preserve of local authorities, and local authorities believe that it the preserve of national parks, and towns such as Brecon and Crickhowell therefore fall through the middle. I welcome the need to be explicit about the role of national parks in economic development. That is not clear in the current Act. We must go further with regard to looking at these roles and responsibilities. Development control is an area that requires a great deal of attention, and will be particularly pertinent when considering expanding the role of economic development and rural development and whether the planning responsibilities, which currently lie within parks, should remain there or revert back to local authorities. People in my constituency would welcome the opportunity to debate and comment on that issue.

Yr wyf hefyd yn croesawu’r ymrwymiad i ystyried rôl y parciau cenedlaethol mewn datblygu economaidd. Mae dryswch ynghylch hynny. Ymddengys fod y parciau’n credu mai maes yr awdurdodau lleol ydyw, ac mae’r awdurdodau lleol yn credu mai maes y parciau cenedlaethol ydyw, ac felly mae trefi fel Aberhonddu a Chrucywel yn disgyn rhwng dwy stôl. Croesawaf y gofyniad i fod yn eglur ynghylch rôl y parciau cenedlaethol mewn datblygu economaidd. Nid yw hynny’n glir yn y Ddeddf bresennol. Rhaid inni fynd ymhellach o ran ystyried y rolau a’r cyfrifoldebau hyn. Mae rheoli datblygu’n faes sy’n gofyn llawer iawn o sylw, a bydd yn arbennig o berthnasol wrth ystyried ehangu’r rôl datblygu economaidd a datblygu gwledig ac a ddylai’r cyfrifoldebau cynllunio sydd gan y parciau ar hyn o bryd aros gyda hwy neu fynd yn ôl i’r awdurdodau lleol. Byddai pobl yn fy etholaeth yn croesawu’r cyfle i drafod a gwneud sylwadau ar y mater hwnnw.

Your statement talks about developing links and looking at areas that surround national parks. There is a need to consider the current boundaries of the Brecon Beacons National Park. Within my constituency, there are people who live in areas which fall outside the national park who clamour to be in it, and yet, there are people who live within the park who clamour to be out of it. The grass is not always greener, but my constituents need the opportunity to debate this issue.

Mae’ch datganiad yn sôn am ddatblygu cysylltiadau ac edrych ar ardaloedd yng nghyffiniau parciau cenedlaethol. Mae angen ystyried ffiniau presennol Parc Cenedlaethol Bannau Brycheiniog. Yn fy etholaeth i, mae rhai sy’n byw mewn ardaloedd y tu allan i’r parc cenedlaethol sy’n gweiddi am gael bod ynddo, ac eto, mae rhai sy’n byw yn y parc yn gweiddi am gael bod y tu allan iddo. Nid man gwyn, man draw yw hi bob amser, ond mae ar fy etholwyr angen cyfle i drafod y mater hwn.

Sue Essex spoken in English p. 39

Sue Essex siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 39

You made many points, and as you live in a national park area, you have a good view of the impact of a national park designation. On planning, I remind you that I made a statement last week on ‘Planning: Delivering for Wales’. Work on planning will be parallel to this review and will be ongoing across the board. Training for members is a key issue. For those of us who have sat on a planning committee, it is an unenviable, sometimes difficult job. However, the way to tackle that to get the best results is through proper training, which will be implemented.

Gwnaethoch lawer o bwyntiau, a chan eich bod yn byw mewn ardal sydd mewn parc cenedlaethol, yr ydych mewn sefyllfa dda i allu gweld effaith dynodiad parc cenedlaethol. Ynghylch cynllunio, yr wyf yn eich atgoffa fy mod wedi gwneud datganiad yr wythnos diwethaf ar ‘Cynllunio: Cyflawni dros Gymru’. Bydd y gwaith ar gynllunio’n rhedeg yn gyfochrog â’r adolygiad hwn a bydd yn parhau’n gyffredinol. Mae hyfforddiant i aelodau’n fater allweddol. I’r rhai ohonom sydd wedi eistedd ar bwyllgor cynllunio, mae’n waith amhleserus ac anodd weithiau. Fodd bynnag, er mwyn cael y canlyniadau gorau, rhaid cael hyfforddiant priodol, a rhoddir hynny ar waith.

Boundaries on a map occasionally fixate us; they are there for a good purpose, but they can sometimes act as absolute horizons and people do not go beyond them. On economic development, as you said, agencies must have the ability to work together in a way that does not stop at administrative boundaries. We know that they exist, but we can go beyond them. In terms of designated boundaries, that is not a specific part of the review, but it may well be a second stage to consider.

Mae ffiniau ar fap yn obsesiwn gennym weithiau; mae rheswm da dros eu bodolaeth, ond gallant weithredu fel gorwelion absoliwt weithiau ac nid yw pobl yn mynd y tu hwnt iddynt. Ynghylch datblygu economaidd, fel y dywedasoch, rhaid i asiantaethau allu gweithio gyda’i gilydd mewn modd nad yw’n dod i ben gyda ffiniau gweinyddol. Gwyddom am eu bodolaeth, ond gallwn fynd y tu hwnt iddynt. O ran ffiniau dynodedig, nid yw hynny’n rhan benodol o’r adolygiad, ond mae’n ddigon posibl y caiff ei ystyried mewn ail gam.

My last point is on communication. You mentioned the solar power initiative in Brecon, which should be applauded. However, communication problems often exist, where good news is not disseminated, or people cannot understand accountability or get involved. Communication and accountability will come out strongly in this review; I do not want to pre-empt what people will say, but I know from my conversations that those issues will probably be high on the agenda.

Mae’r pwynt olaf sydd gennyf yn ymwneud â chyfathrebu. Gwnaethoch sôn am fenter ynni’r haul yn Aberhonddu, sydd i’w chanmol. Er hynny, mae problemau cyfathrebu’n bod yn aml, lle na chaiff newyddion da eu lledaenu, neu lle na all pobl ddeall atebolrwydd neu gymryd rhan. Bydd cyfathrebu ac atebolrwydd yn rhan bwysig o’r adolygiad hwn; nid wyf am achub y blaen ar yr hyn a ddywedir, ond gwn oherwydd y sgyrsiau a gefais ei bod yn debygol y bydd y materion hynny yn uchel ar yr agenda.

Nick Bourne spoken in English p. 40

Nick Bourne siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 40

Thank you for this statement, and thank you also for making time available for me earlier to discuss some of these issues. Democratic accountability is vital, and if that becomes a key feature of this review—as is apparent—it will be greatly welcomed across the Chamber and across Wales. I reiterate the point on boundaries. I know that the Minister has heard me talking about this before, and that she feels that there is nothing magical about the boundaries. However, Brecon is the largest town within a national park boundary in the United Kingdom. There is a body of opinion in the town that does not consider its location within the park to be advantageous. Abergavenny and Llandovery are just outside the park and do well—both have successful farmers’ markets, for example; other communities might tell the same tale, for example, Crickhowell and Talgarth. Therefore, I hope that the review will be flexible enough to allow people the opportunity to put their case and that the review will consider this.

Diolch i chi am y datganiad hwn, a diolch i chi hefyd am neilltuo amser ar fy nghyfer yn gynharach i drafod rhai o’r materion hyn. Mae atebolrwydd democrataidd yn hollbwysig, ac os bydd hynny’n nodwedd allweddol o’r adolygiad hwn—fel y mae’n amlwg y bydd—croesewir hynny’n fawr drwy’r Siambr a ledled Cymru. Ailadroddaf y pwynt am ffiniau. Gwn fod y Gweinidog wedi fy nghlywed yn sôn am hyn o’r blaen, ac nad yw’n teimlo bod y ffiniau’n bethau hudol o gwbl. Fodd bynnag, Aberhonddu yw’r dref fwyaf o fewn ffin parc cenedlaethol yn y Deyrnas Unedig. Mae llawer yn y dref yn credu nad oes mantais iddi fod o fewn y parc. Mae’r Fenni a Llanymddyfri ychydig y tu allan i’r parc ac maent yn gwneud yn dda—mae marchnad ffermwyr lwyddiannus yn y ddwy, er enghraifft; gallai cymunedau eraill ddweud yr un peth, er enghraifft, Crucywel a Thalgarth. Gan hynny, gobeithiaf y bydd yr adolygiad yn ddigon hyblyg i roi cyfle i bobl gyflwyno’u hachos ac y bydd yr adolygiad yn ystyried hyn.

As has been rightly said, some communities may want to be included within national park boundaries. I have often heard it argued that Blaenau Ffestiniog should be included within the boundaries of Snowdonia National Park, and I think that we would all welcome that flexibility within the terms of this review. From your statement, it seems to me that this might be possible but I would be grateful for your clarification on this point. Subject to this, the review is welcome and we look forward to participating in it and learning of its findings in, perhaps, June 2003.

Fel y dywedwyd, mae’n bosibl y bydd rhai cymunedau am gael eu cynnwys o fewn ffiniau parciau cenedlaethol. Clywais ddadlau’n aml y dylai Blaenau Ffestiniog gael ei gynnwys o fewn ffiniau Parc Cenedlaethol Eryri, a chredaf y byddem oll yn croesawu’r hyblygrwydd hwnnw yng nghylch gorchwyl yr adolygiad hwn. Yn ôl eich datganiad, ymddengys i mi y gallai hynny fod yn bosibl a byddwn yn ddiolchgar o gael eglurhad gennych ar y pwynt hwn. Yn amodol ar hynny, mae’r adolygiad i’w groesawu ac edrychwn ymlaen at gymryd rhan ynddo a chael gwybod am ei ganfyddiadau, ym Mehefin 2003 efallai.

Sue Essex spoken in English p. 41

Sue Essex siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 41

I do not need to comment too much on that. The boundaries and the designation have not been specifically identified for review, but if this is an issue for people on the ground when we consider taking the points forward, we may have to address it.

Nid oes angen imi wneud llawer o sylwadau am hynny. Nid yw’r ffiniau a’r dynodiad wedi’u nodi’n benodol ar gyfer eu hadolygu, ond os yw hyn yn fater o bwys gan bobl ar lawr gwlad pan ydym yn ystyried symud ymlaen â’r pwyntiau a wneir, efallai y bydd yn rhaid inni roi sylw iddo.

Richard Edwards spoken in English p. 41

Richard Edwards siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 41

Thank you for your statement, Minister, which, as you say, has been discussed in the Environment, Planning and Transport Committee and broadly endorsed. As a representative of a constituency that encompasses part of a national park, I take a different tack from David Davies on democratic accountability—not for the first time and, I trust, not for the last. Do you agree that, in considering electoral arrangements for national park authorities, it is vital to strike a balance, albeit a difficult balance, between the maximum possible local accountability and responsiveness to local needs, and the strategic role—we should not forget this—of the park authorities as national bodies with national responsibilities?

Diolch i chi am eich datganiad, Weinidog, sydd wedi’i drafod, fel y dywedasoch, ym Mhwyllgor yr Amgylchedd, Cynllunio a Thrafnidiaeth a’i gefnogi’n gyffredinol. Fel cynrychiolydd etholaeth sy’n cynnwys rhan o barc cenedlaethol, dilynaf drywydd gwahanol i David Davies ar atebolrwydd democrataidd—nid am y tro cyntaf ac, yr wyf yn hyderu, nid am y tro olaf. A gytunwch ei bod yn hollbwysig, wrth ystyried trefniadau etholiadol ar gyfer awdurdodau parciau cenedlaethol, sicrhau cydbwysedd, er anhawsed hynny, rhwng yr atebolrwydd lleol mwyaf posibl a’r gallu i ymateb i anghenion lleol, a rôl strategol awdurdodau’r parciau—ac ni ddylem anghofio hyn—fel cyrff cenedlaethol a chanddynt gyfrifoldebau cenedlaethol?

Sue Essex spoken in English p. 41

Sue Essex siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 41

We wanted the twin aims of local representation and national policy representation to be taken into account. Although there are times when it erupts into local difficulties, I have found from my discussions with national park authority members that there is a high degree of co-operation. At a recent conference in Northumberland I met people that I, or a previous Secretary of State, appointed and local authority members. I would not want to split members into two camps because it is practical to have both representatives as authority members to work problems through. It is important that national members understand the social and local pressures and that local authority members also understand national objectives; otherwise there will be polarisation within park authorities, which would mean divided votes. There must be a balance but there must also be a sharing of objectives and understanding in park authorities because that will provide the best results.

Yr oeddem am i’r nodau deuol o gynrychiolaeth leol a chynrychiolaeth i bolisi cenedlaethol gael eu hystyried. Er bod adegau pan fydd anawsterau lleol yn codi, mae’r trafodaethau a gefais ag aelodau o awdurdodau’r parciau cenedlaethol wedi dangos imi fod llawer iawn o gydweithredu. Mewn cynhadledd yn Northumberland yn ddiweddar, cyfarfûm â rhai yr oeddwn i, neu Ysgrifennydd Gwladol blaenorol, wedi’u penodi ac aelodau o awdurdodau lleol. Ni fyddwn am wahanu aelodau’n ddwy garfan gan ei bod yn ymarferol cael y ddau fath o gynrychiolydd fel aelodau o awdurdod i ddatrys problemau. Mae’n bwysig bod yr aelodau cenedlaethol yn deall y pwysau cymdeithasol a lleol a bod yr aelodau o’r awdurdodau lleol hefyd yn deall amcanion cenedlaethol; fel arall bydd pegynu o fewn awdurdodau’r parciau, a olygai bleidleisiau rhanedig. Rhaid cael cydbwysedd ond hefyd rhaid cael unfrydedd ar amcanion a chyd-ddealltwriaeth yn awdurdodau’r parciau gan mai hynny fydd yn rhoi’r canlyniadau gorau.

Brian Hancock siaradwyd yn Gymraeg ac yn Saesneg t. 41

Brian Hancock spoken in Welsh and English p. 41

Diolch, Weinidog, am eich datganiad.

in Welsh Thank you, Minister, for your statement.

On democratic representation—

yn Saesneg Ynghylch cynrychiolaeth ddemocrataidd—

Glyn Davies spoken in English p. 42

Glyn Davies siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 42

You can do more than that, Brian.

Gallwch wneud mwy na hynny, Brian.

Dafydd Elis-Thomas The Presiding Officer spoken in English p. 42

Dafydd Elis-Thomas Y Llywydd siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 42

Order. Members may use whatever language they wish in the Chamber, to whatever extent they prefer, Glyn.

Trefn. Caiff Aelodau ddefnyddio pa bynnag iaith a ddymunant yn y Siambr, i ba raddau bynnag sydd orau ganddynt, Glyn.

Brian Hancock spoken in English p. 42

Brian Hancock siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 42

Do you recognise that there are problems with direct elections to national park authorities? Should not all options be considered, for example, using methods similar to the National Assembly or local authority elections? Is it not too narrow to only consider direct elections in the terms of reference?

A ydych yn cydnabod bod problemau ynglŷn ag etholiadau uniongyrchol i awdurdodau parciau cenedlaethol? Oni ddylid ystyried yr holl ddewisiadau, er enghraifft, defnyddio dulliau tebyg i rai’r Cynulliad Cenedlaethol neu etholiadau awdurdodau lleol? Onid rhy gyfyng yw ystyried etholiadau uniongyrchol yn unig yn y cylch gorchwyl?

Sue Essex spoken in English p. 42

Sue Essex siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 42

I do not believe so because the partnership agreement specifically stated that we would consider this. It was a view commonly held a couple of years ago that direct elections would overcome some of the difficulties we have discussed. In addition, Scotland, with regard to its first national park, has chosen a model with direct elections. In England, they have a different composition and draw people from parish councils. We do not have that option in Wales; we do not have parish councils. Therefore it is right and proper for us to refer specifically to direct elections, but we would not preclude other options. If people have other views—for example, David’s point that everyone representing a national park should live in the area, although I do not necessarily agree with it, is valid—they will come forward in the review, and we will see what else comes. It is fine, and we will be able to draw on the experience gained in Scotland: by the time this report is completed, Scotland will have had a year to see how this system works. It is only fair that we pull this one out of the bag, and say that we will have this particular question.

Ni chredaf hynny gan fod y cytundeb partneriaeth yn datgan yn benodol y byddwn yn ystyried hyn. Yr oedd yn farn gyffredin rai blynyddoedd yn ôl y byddai etholiadau uniongyrchol yn fodd i oresgyn rhai o’r anawsterau yr ydym wedi’u trafod. Yn ogystal â hynny, mae’r Alban, mewn cysylltiad â’i pharc cenedlaethol cyntaf, wedi dewis model sydd ag etholiadau uniongyrchol. Yn Lloegr, mae cyfuniad gwahanol ganddynt a thynnant rai aelodau o gynghorau plwyf. Nid yw’r dewis hwnnw gennym yng Nghymru; nid oes gennym gynghorau plwyf. Gan hynny, mae’n briodol inni gyfeirio’n benodol at etholiadau uniongyrchol, ond ni fyddem yn rhagwahardd dewisiadau eraill. Os oes gan rywun farn wahanol—er enghraifft, mae’r pwynt a wnaeth David y dylai pawb sy’n cynrychioli parc cenedlaethol fyw yn yr ardal, er nad wyf yn cytuno ag ef o reidrwydd, yn un dilys—fe’i cyflwynir yn yr adolygiad, a gwelwn beth arall a ddaw. Mae’n iawn, a byddwn yn gallu gwneud defnydd o’r profiad a gaiff yr Alban: erbyn cwblhau’r adroddiad hwn, bydd yr Alban wedi cael blwyddyn i weld sut y mae’r system hon yn gweithio. Nid yw ond yn deg inni godi hyn, a dweud y cawn y cwestiwn penodol hwn.

Peter Law spoken in English p. 42

Peter Law siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 42

I welcome your initiative, Minister. If we must continue with these infernal quangos, will you review their administrative competence? We will democratise them in the future. My experience of the Brecon Beacons National Park is that it is unprofessional and that many of its sections are lazy in their approach. It is interesting to hear the number of times that that particular park has been mentioned by Members.

Croesawaf eich menter, Weinidog. Os oes rhaid inni barhau â’r cwangos dieflig hyn, a wnewch adolygu eu gallu gweinyddol? Gwnawn eu democrateiddio yn y dyfodol. Yn ôl fy mhrofiad i o Barc Cenedlaethol Bannau Brycheiniog, mae’n amhroffesiynol ac mae agwedd ddiog gan lawer o’i is-adrannau. Mae’n ddiddorol nodi cynifer o weithiau y mae’r Aelodau wedi cyfeirio at y parc penodol hwnnw.

I have been concerned about the negativity of the Brecon Beacons National Park and the indifference it has shown to my constituents. It is an administrative shambles, peppered with incompetence: for example, minutes are virtually made up as it goes along; there has been a failure to advertise planning applications in local newspapers; communities in my constituency have been attributed to the wrong county; and its corporate governance is a figment of the imagination. The national park is anonymous in Blaenau Gwent—we are only included in it because the mountain range ends in Blaenau Gwent. The park sees us as a means to an end.

Bûm yn bryderus ynghylch agwedd negyddol Parc Cenedlaethol Bannau Brycheiniog a’r difaterwch a amlygodd at fy etholwyr. Mae ei weinyddiaeth yn llanastr, yn frith o aflerwch: er enghraifft, mae’n dyfeisio cofnodion cyfarfodydd wrth fynd ymlaen bron; methwyd â hysbysebu ceisiadau cynllunio mewn papurau newydd lleol; mae cymunedau yn fy etholaeth i wedi’u priodoli i’r sir anghywir; ac nid yw ei reolaeth corfforaethol yn bod o gwbl. Mae’r parc cenedlaethol yn anhysbys ym Mlaenau Gwent—nid ydym ond wedi ein cynnwys ynddo am fod y gadwyn o fynyddoedd yn gorffen ym Mlaenau Gwent. Mae’r parc yn ein hystyried yn fodd i gyflawni diben.

Are you prepared to consider requests from counties to be descheduled from the parks, and allow planning and conservation matters normally dealt with by national parks to be decided by democratically-elected councillors, rather than a quango?

A ydych yn barod i ystyried ceisiadau gan siroedd i beidio â chael eu cynnwys yn y parciau, ac i ganiatáu penderfynu ar faterion cynllunio a chadwraeth a drafodir fel arfer gan barciau cenedlaethol gan gynghorwyr a etholwyd yn ddemocrataidd, yn hytrach na chwango?

Sue Essex spoken in English p. 43

Sue Essex siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 43

As I said earlier, the review will not be about boundaries, but it is up to individuals to decide what they want to say. I must correct the misconception that these are quangos; the Act introduced them as local authorities, and not what we would normally think of as quangos. They have a percentage of members nominated by me, or by the previous Secretary of State. Therefore, a nomination element has existed since the National Parks and Access to the Countryside Act 1949, which reflects the element of national policy within parks. It is wrong to think that they are quangos; in terms of their responsibilities—or parts of their responsibilities—they are local authorities.

Fel y dywedais yn gynharach, ni fydd yr adolygiad yn ymwneud â ffiniau, ond mater i unigolion yw penderfynu beth y maent am ei ddweud. Rhaid imi gywiro’r camsyniad mai cwangos yw’r rhain; gwnaeth y Ddeddf eu cyflwyno fel awdurdodau lleol, ac nid yr hyn a ystyriem fel arfer yn gwangos. Enwebwyd canran o’u haelodau gennyf fi, neu gan yr Ysgrifennyd Gwladol blaenorol. Felly, mae’r elfen o enwebu’n bod ers y Ddeddf Parciau Cenedlaethol a Mynediad i Gefn Gwlad 1949, sy’n adlewyrchu’r elfen o bolisi cenedlaethol yn y parciau. Anghywir yw meddwl eu bod yn gwangos; o ran eu cyfrifoldebau—neu rannau o’u cyfrifoldebau—awdurdodau lleol ydynt.

Concerning your experience, the Brecon Beacons National Park has eight local authorities in its area and it is an unusual entity in that sense. The whole thing must work as a cohesive whole, but it must also be accountable to your constituents, as it must be to Kirsty’s constituents. You will have an opportunity to make those points.

Ynghylch eich profiad chi, mae gan Barc Cenedlaethol Bannau Brycheiniog wyth awdurdod lleol yn ei ardal ac mae’n endid anarferol yn yr ystyr honno. Rhaid i’r cyfan weithio’n gydlynol, ond rhaid iddo fod yn atebol i’ch etholwyr hefyd, ac i etholwyr Kirsty yn yr un modd. Cewch gyfle i wneud y pwyntiau hynny.

Datganiad Busnes

Business Statement

Carwyn Jones The Business Minister spoken in English p. 44

Carwyn Jones Y Trefnydd siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 44

There are no changes to report to this week’s business. The next three weeks’ business is as shown on the Chamberweb under supporting documents.

Nid oes unrhyw newidiadau y dylid adrodd amdanynt i fusnes yr wythnos hon. Mae busnes y tair wythnos nesaf fel y’i dangosir ar we’r Siambr dan ddogfennau ategol.

Following the meeting of the Business Committee this morning, the Deputy Presiding Officer determined that, under Standing Order No. 22.5, the following items of legislation need not be referred to a Subject Committee for extended consideration: the Leasehold Reform (Notices) (Amendment) (Wales) Regulations 2002, the Rating Lists (Valuation Date) (Wales) Order 2002, the Education Act 2002 (Transitional Provisions) (Wales) Regulations 2002, the Air Quality Limit Values (Wales) Regulations 2002, the Countryside Access (Dedication of Land as Access Land) (Wales) Regulations 2003, and the Countryside Access (Exclusion or Restriction of Access) (Wales) Regulations 2003.

Ar ôl y cyfarfod o’r Pwyllgor Busnes y bore yma, penderfynodd y Dirprwy Lywydd, o dan Reol Sefydlog Rhif 22.5, nad oes angen cyfeirio’r eitemau deddfwriaeth canlynol i Bwyllgor Pwnc i’w hystyried yn helaethach: Rheoliadau Diwygio’r Drefn Brydlesol (Hysbysiadau) (Diwygio) (Cymru) 2002, Gorchymyn y Rhestrau Ardrethu (Dyddiad Prisio) (Cymru) 2002, Rheoliadau Deddf Addysg 2002 (Darpariaethau Trosiannol) (Cymru) 2002, Rheoliadau Gwerthoedd Terfyn Ansawdd Aer (Cymru) 2002, Rheoliadau Mynediad i Gefn Gwlad (Cyflwyno Tir fel Tir Mynediad) (Cymru) 2003, a Rheoliadau Mynediad i Gefn Gwlad (Gwahardd neu Gyfyngu Mynediad) (Cymru) 2003.

Dafydd Elis-Thomas Y Llywydd siaradwyd yn Gymraeg t. 44

Dafydd Elis-Thomas The Presiding Officer spoken in Welsh p. 44

A oes gwrthwynebiad i’r datganiad busnes? Gwelaf nad oes. A oes sylwadau ar y datganiad busnes?

Are there any objections to the business statement? I see that there are not. Are there any comments on the business statement?

Glyn Davies spoken in English p. 44

Glyn Davies siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 44

I have two comments to make. Will you bring forward—at the earliest possible date—either a statement or a debate on changes with regard to hunting with dogs? There has not been an issue as important as this in Wales, and we must have—[Interruption.]

Mae gennyf ddau sylw i’w gwneud. A wnewch ddwyn gerbron—ar y dyddiad cynharaf posibl—naill ai datganiad neu ddadl ar newidiadau mewn cysylltiad â hela â chŵn? Ni fu mater cyn bwysiced â hyn yng Nghymru, a rhaid inni gael—[Torri ar draws.]

Dafydd Elis-Thomas The Presiding Officer spoken in English p. 44

Dafydd Elis-Thomas Y Llywydd siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 44

Order. Whatever their opinion, Members can express their viewpoint on this matter.

Trefn. Beth bynnag yw eu barn, caiff Aelodau fynegi eu safbwynt ar y mater hwn.

Glyn Davies spoken in English p. 44

Glyn Davies siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 44

We need to discuss this at the earliest opportunity so that we can influence the aspects of it that can be decided in the Assembly, where the majority believe decisions on this issue should be taken. The other issue I want to raise is Assembly learning grants. In response to a written question, the Minister said that, by the end of November, she would be in a position to tell us how successful this grant had been and how many people had claimed it. We would like a statement on that.

Rhaid inni drafod hyn ar y cyfle cynharaf fel y gallwn ddylanwadu ar yr agweddau ar hyn y gellir penderfynu arnynt yn y Cynulliad, lle y mae’r mwyafrif yn credu y dylid gwneud penderfyniadau ar y mater hwn. Y mater arall y dymunaf ei godi yw grantiau dysgu’r Cynulliad. Mewn ymateb i gwestiwn ysgrifenedig, dywedodd y Gweinidog y byddai mewn sefyllfa, erbyn diwedd Tachwedd, i allu dweud wrthym pa mor llwyddiannus y bu’r grant hwn a faint a oedd wedi’i hawlio. Hoffem gael datganiad ar hynny.

Ieuan Wyn Jones spoken in English p. 45

Ieuan Wyn Jones siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 45

We have been waiting a long time for the Assembly Government’s annual business programme for this session. You will know that since the coalition Government was formed, the First Minister has produced a statement setting out the coalition’s programme for the coming year. We are surprised that you have not taken the opportunity to set out your programme this year. When he introduced last year’s annual business programme, the First Minister said:

Buom yn aros yn hir am raglen busnes flynyddol Llywodraeth y Cynulliad ar gyfer y sesiwn hwn. Gwyddoch fod y Prif Weinidog, ers sefydlu’r Llywodraeth glymblaid, wedi cynhyrchu datganiad yn nodi rhaglen y glymblaid ar gyfer y flwyddyn i ddod. Yr ydym yn synnu nad ydych wedi achub ar y cyfle i nodi’ch rhaglen eleni. Pan gyflwynodd y rhaglen busnes flynyddol y llynedd, dywedodd y Prif Weinidog:

‘This programme is possible because of the certainty that we have gained through the partnership Government. Together we can set our agenda, confident that we can deliver what we promise.’

‘Mae’r rhaglen hon yn bosibl oherwydd y sicrwydd a gawsom drwy’r Llywodraeth bartneriaeth. Gyda’n gilydd gallwn bennu ein hagenda, yn hyderus y gallwn gyflawni’r hyn yr ydym yn ei addo.’

Is the lack of a business programme because there is no certainty about the coalition Government at present, is it because you have no agenda, or is it because you are not confident that you can deliver on your proposals this year? Members are entitled to question the Government on its annual programme, and that should now be presented at the earliest opportunity. The First Minister asked today whether we wanted the half-minute government programme, the two-minute programme or the half-hour programme? We want the half-hour programme—Members could then question him thoroughly on this year’s programme.

Ai am nad oes sicrwydd ynghylch y Llywodraeth glymblaid ar hyn o bryd yr ydym heb gael rhaglen busnes, neu am nad oes gennych agenda, neu am nad ydych yn ffyddiog y gallwch gyflawni’ch cynigion eleni? Mae gan Aelodau yr hawl i holi’r Llywodraeth am ei rhaglen flynyddol, a dylid ei chyflwyno ar y cyfle cyntaf posibl. Gofynnodd y Prif Weinidog heddiw a oeddem am gael y rhaglen lywodraeth hanner munud, y rhaglen ddau funud neu’r rhaglen hanner awr. Yr ydym am gael y rhaglen hanner awr—wedyn gallai Aelodau ei holi’n drwyadl am raglen y flwyddyn hon.

I also ask about the debate on the Government’s response to the Culture Committee’s report on the Welsh language, which has been provisionally scheduled for 15 January. Will you confirm that that debate will be led by the Minister for Education and Lifelong Learning, so that we are given the opportunity to consider the education continuum for Welsh-medium education, educare and nursery provision? Will you also confirm that the Minister will give a full statement in that debate on what resources will be made available for the report’s education proposals?

Holaf hefyd ynghylch y ddadl ar ymateb y Llywodraeth i adroddiad y Pwyllgor Diwylliant ar y Gymraeg, a amserlennwyd ar gyfer 15 Ionawr ar hyn o bryd. A wnewch gadarnhau y caiff y ddadl ei harwain gan y Gweinidog dros Addysg a Dysgu Gydol Oes, fel y cawn gyfle i ystyried y continwwm addysg ar gyfer addysg cyfrwng Cymraeg, addysg-gofal a’r ddarpariaeth meithrin? A wnewch gadarnhau hefyd y bydd y Gweinidog yn rhoi datganiad llawn yn y ddadl honno ar ba adnoddau a fydd ar gael ar gyfer cynigion addysg yr adroddiad?

Alun Pugh spoken in English p. 46

Alun Pugh siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 46

Many Members were concerned last week about the abuse of Standing Order No. 6.21, which allows for the division bell to be rung. Will you discuss with party business managers, in an appropriate forum, the possibility of changing that Standing Order? I would be happy to see the number of Members required to support the request to ring the bell reduced from three to two, and in accordance with our statutory commitment to equal opportunities, one male and one female. [Laughter.]

Yr oedd llawer o Aelodau’n bryderus yr wythnos diwethaf ynghylch y camarfer o Reol Sefydlog Rhif 6.21, sy’n darparu ar gyfer canu cloch y bleidlais. A wnewch drafod gyda rheolwyr busnes y pleidiau, mewn fforwm priodol, y posibilrwydd o newid y Rheol Sefydlog honno? Byddwn yn falch o weld gostwng y nifer o Aelodau sydd ei angen i gefnogi’r cais am ganu’r gloch o dri i ddau ac, yn unol â’n hymrwymiad statudol i gyfle cyfartal, un gwryw ac un fenyw. [Chwerthin.]

Carwyn Jones The Business Minister spoken in English p. 46

Carwyn Jones Y Trefnydd siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 46

Alun’s suggestion is interesting, and would be in keeping with both our legal and moral duty to promote equality of opportunity in the Chamber. That might progress during the next few months.

Mae awgrym Alun yn un diddorol, a byddai’n gydnaws â’n dyletswydd gyfreithiol a moesol i hyrwyddo cyfle cyfartal yn y Siambr. Efallai y bydd cynnydd ar hynny yn ystod y misoedd nesaf.

On the issue of hunting with dogs, I was astonished to hear it described as the most important issue facing Wales—more important apparently than the NHS, education and building Wales’s economy, or other such trivial matters. Let us wait to see what happens today. If there is a need to hold a debate in the Chamber on that issue, I will consider it, but it will be on the basis of what is said today and its possible affect on Wales. In terms of the Assembly learning grants, the Minister will be making reference to the take-up of those grants when she reports to the Education and Lifelong Learning Committee on 19 December, which is the appropriate forum in which to do so. That will give Committee members plenty of opportunity to question the progress of that successful policy. There is a slight difficulty with the Government’s annual business programme because of the elections in May. An annual business programme assumes—and I am glad that the leader of the opposition is making the assumption—that this Government will still be in power after the elections in May. I welcome that assumption. Clearly, it is difficult to have an annual business report when we know that there is little time left between now and the election. The Government’s programme will be outlined in ‘forward look’. It will be part of the draft business statements and Government will continue as usual. We will then look forward to presenting a new programme to the Assembly after May. I welcome the leader of the opposition’s comments on that and his recognition of the reality of the situation.

Ar fater hela â chŵn, yr oedd yn synn gennyf glywed dweud mai hwnnw oedd y mater pwysicaf sy’n wynebu Cymru—yn bwysicach, yn ôl pob golwg, na’r GIG, addysg ac adeiladu economi Cymru, neu faterion dibwys eraill o’r fath. Gadewch inni aros i weld beth a ddigwydd heddiw. Os oes angen cynnal dadl yn y Siambr ar y mater hwnnw, gwnaf ei ystyried, ond gwneir hynny ar sail yr hyn a ddywedir heddiw a’i effaith bosibl ar Gymru. Ynghylch grantiau dysgu’r Cynulliad, bydd y Gweinidog yn cyfeirio at y nifer sy’n derbyn y grantiau hynny pan fydd yn adrodd i’r Pwyllgor Addysg a Dysgu Gydol Oes ar 19 Rhagfyr, sef y fforwm priodol i wneud hynny. Bydd hynny’n rhoi digon o gyfle i aelodau’r Pwyllgor holi am gynnydd y polisi llwyddiannus hwnnw. Mae ychydig o anhawster ynghylch rhaglen busnes flynyddol y Llywodraeth oherwydd yr etholiadau ym Mai. Mae rhaglen busnes flynyddol yn rhagdybio—ac yr wyf yn falch bod arweinydd yr wrthblaid yn rhagdybio hyn—y bydd y Llywodraeth hon yn dal i fod mewn grym ar ôl yr etholiadau ym Mai. Croesawaf y rhagdybiaeth honno. Wrth gwrs, anodd yw cael adroddiad busnes flynyddol a ninnau’n gwybod mai ychydig o amser sy’n weddill rhwng hyn a’r etholiad. Amlinellir rhaglen y Llywodraeth yn y ‘rhagolwg’. Bydd yn rhan o’r datganiadau busnes drafft a bydd y Llywodraeth yn parhau fel arfer. Edrychwn ymlaen wedyn at gyflwyno rhaglen newydd i’r Cynulliad ar ôl mis Mai. Croesawaf sylwadau arweinydd yr wrthblaid ar hynny a’i gydnabyddiaeth o realiti’r sefyllfa.

Jane Davidson and Jenny Randerson will participate in the debate on the Government’s response to the Culture Committtee’s report on the Welsh language on 15 January. One Minister will open the debate and the other will close. Two Committees have considered this issue, it is therefore important that Members have the opportunity to raise points with and question both Ministers.

Bydd Jane Davidson a Jenny Randerson yn cymryd rhan yn y ddadl ar ymateb y Llywodraeth i adroddiad y Pwyllgor Diwylliant ar y Gymraeg ar 15 Ionawr. Bydd un Gweinidog yn agor y ddadl a’r llall yn ei chau. Mae dau Bwyllgor wedi ystyried y mater hwn, ac mae’n bwysig felly fod yr Aelodau’n cael cyfle i godi pwyntiau gyda’r ddau Weinidog a’u holi.

Derbyniwyd y datganiad busnes.

Business statement adopted.

Daeth y Dirprwy Lywydd i’r Gadair am 3.32 p.m.

The Deputy Presiding Officer took the Chair at 3.32 p.m.

Cymryd Rhan Mewn Chwaraeon

Participation in Sport

John Marek The Deputy Presiding Officer spoken in English p. 47

John Marek Y Dirprwy Lywydd siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 47

I have selected amendments 1 and 2 in the name of Jonathan Morgan and amendments 3 and 4 in the name of Jocelyn Davies.

Yr wyf wedi dethol gwellianau 1 a 2 yn enw Jonathan Morgan a gwellianau 3 a 4 yn enw Jocelyn Davies.

Jenny Randerson The Minister for Culture, Sport and the Welsh Language spoken in English p. 47

Jenny Randerson Y Gweinidog dros Ddiwylliant, Chwaraeon a’r Gymraeg siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 47

I propose that

Cynigiaf fod

Jenny Randerson The Minister for Culture, Sport and the Welsh Language (continued) spoken in English p. 48

Jenny Randerson Y Gweinidog dros Ddiwylliant, Chwaraeon a’r Gymraeg (parhad) siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 48

A great deal of attention is currently focused on sport. The Culture Committee is undertaking a review of sport and the UK Government’s strategic policy unit is looking at the UK-wide aspects of sport organisation. The joint lottery review may have an impact on aspects of funding, the Sports Council for Wales is undergoing a quinquennial review and following on from this, I will be working on a Government strategy for sport.

Rhoddir llawer iawn o sylw ar hyn o bryd i chwaraeon. Mae’r Pwyllgor Diwylliant yn cynnal adolygiad o chwaraeon ac mae uned bolisi strategol Llywodraeth y DU yn ystyried agweddau ar drefniadaeth chwaraeon ledled y DU. Mae’n bosibl y bydd yr adolygiad ar y cyd o’r loteri yn effeithio ar rai agweddau ar gyllido, cynhelir adolygiad pum-mlynedd o Gyngor Chwaraeon Cymru ac, yn sgîl hynny, byddaf yn gweithio ar strategaeth Llywodraeth ar gyfer chwaraeon.

Therefore, it was important to give you the opportunity to debate one of the key sports-related issues facing Wales. Here are some sobering facts: UK levels of obesity have trebled since 1980. The UK is now officially the most obese nation in Europe. Participation rates among the young in all major sports, including football, have fallen in recent years. Seventy per cent of 16-year-olds give up sport on leaving school. Only 28 per cent of adults in Wales engage in an acceptable level of sport and physical activity. That compares with 56 per cent in Australia and over 70 per cent in Scandinavia.

Gan hynny, yr oedd yn bwysig rhoi cyfle ichi drafod un o’r materion allweddol sy’n ymwneud â chwaraeon a wyneba Cymru. Dyma rai ffeithiau sobreiddiol: mae’r lefelau o ordewdra yn y DU wedi treblu ers 1980. Mae’n ffaith swyddogol bellach mai’r DU yw’r genedl fwyaf gordew yn Ewrop. Mae’r cyfraddau cyfranogi ymysg yr ifanc yn yr holl brif chwaraeon, gan gynnwys pêl-droed, wedi gostwng yn y blynyddoedd diwethaf. Mae 70 y cant o rai 16 mlwydd oed yn rhoi’r gorau i chwaraeon ar ôl gadael yr ysgol. Dim ond 28 y cant o’r oedolion yng Nghymru sy’n cymryd rhan mewn lefel dderbyniol o chwaraeon a gweithgaredd corfforol. Mae hynny’n cymharu â 56 y cant yn Awstralia a thros 70 y cant yn Llychlyn.

The economic costs of physical inactivity in Wales means that earnings lost due to sickness and premature mortality amount to £80 million per year. In terms of direct healthcare savings, a 10 per cent increase in physical activity by adults would produce a direct economic benefit of £25 million per year. As well as affecting health, sport also makes a vital contribution to improving social cohesion and crime reduction. That is the scale of the issue and why we need to consider sport seriously and differently.

Mae’r costau economaidd oherwydd anweithgarwch corfforol yng Nghymru’n golygu bod yr enillion a gollir oherwydd salwch a marwolaeth gynamserol yn gymaint â £80 miliwn y flwyddyn. O ran arbedion uniongyrchol mewn gofal iechyd, byddai 10 y cant o gynnydd mewn gweithgarwch corfforol ymysg oedolion yn cynhyrchu budd economaidd uniongyrchol o £25 miliwn y flwyddyn. Yn ogystal â’u heffaith ar iechyd, mae chwaraeon yn gwneud cyfraniad hollbwysig at wella cydlyniant cymdeithasol a lleihau troseddu. Dyna faint y mater dan sylw a dyna pam y mae’n rhaid inni ystyried chwaraeon o ddifrif ac mewn modd gwahanol.

However, there is a great deal of action to report in Wales. The gap between male and female participation is well over 10 per cent. That is a worrying gap, but we have recognised it and are doing something about it with a target of halving that divide by 2005. Therefore, we are out of the blocks.

Er hynny, mae llawer iawn o weithredu yng Nghymru y gellir sôn amdano. Mae’r bwlch rhwng cyfranogiad gwrywod a menywod ymhell dros 10 y cant. Mae’r bwlch hwnnw’n peri pryder, ond yr ydym wedi’i gydnabod ac yr ydym yn gwneud rhywbeth yn ei gylch gyda tharged o haneru’r rhaniad hwnnw erbyn 2005. Felly, yr ydym wedi cychwyn arni.

One of the new and innovative programmes funded by the Assembly Government at a cost of £250,000 a year is Girls First. The main aim is to increase extra curricular sports activity among girls who do not normally take part in schools’ current programmes, concentrating in particular on 11 to 16-year-olds. The most popular activities are health and fitness-related activities, such as aerobics and step aerobics with football and rugby close behind. Therefore, women favour the traditional male sports and less competitive exercise to music. Female soccer is our fastest growing sport and 11 per cent of 11 to 16-year-old girls are now involved in extra-curricular soccer. I am delighted that, as a result of my announcement of an additional £1.3 million funding for football, women will receive the opportunity that equity demands. In golf, the Ryder Cup provides tremendous opportunities and the golf development plan places particular emphasis on women and girls.

Un o’r rhaglenni newydd ac arloesol a ariannwyd gan Lywodraeth y Cynulliad ar gost o £250,000 y flwyddyn yw Genethod yn Gyntaf. Y brif nod yw cynyddu’r gweithgarwch chwaraeon allgwricwlaidd ymysg merched nad ydynt yn cymryd rhan fel arfer yn rhaglenni presennol yr ysgolion, gan ganolbwyntio’n benodol ar rai 11 i 16 mlwydd oed. Y gweithgareddau mwyaf poblogaidd yw’r rhai sy’n gysylltiedig ag iechyd a ffitrwydd, fel aerobeg ac aerobeg camu, ac mae pêl-droed a rygbi yn agos ar eu hôl. Felly, mae’n well gan fenywod y chwaraeon gwrywaidd traddodiadol ac ymarfer llai cystadleuol i gyfeiliant. Pêl-droed menywod sy’n tyfu gyflymaf o’r holl chwaraeon ac mae 11 y cant o ferched 11 i 16 mlwydd oed yn cymryd rhan yn awr mewn pêl-droed allgwricwlaidd. Yr wyf wrth fy modd y bydd menywod yn cael cyfle teg, oherwydd fy nghyhoeddiad o £1.3 miliwn o gyllid ychwanegol ar gyfer pêl-droed. O ran golff, mae Cwpan Ryder yn cynnig cyfleoedd gwych ac mae’r cynllun datblygu golff yn rhoi pwyslais penodol ar fenywod a merched.

The gender gap is particularly pronounced for outdoor games and activities: twenty-five per cent for men and 6 per cent for women. In our inclement part of the world, we have to think and work creatively to maximise the use of indoor facilities. Last year, we published the physical education and school sport action plan for Wales, recently funded by the Minister for Education and Lifelong Learning by £5 million over the next 3 years. We are also addressing adult sporting structures. The sports council has introduced a specific allocation of lottery funding of £650,000 per annum to develop the infrastructure for women’s sport, namely more clubs, leagues, coaches and leaders.

Mae’r bwlch rhwng y rhywiau yn arbennig o amlwg yn achos gemau a gweithgareddau awyr agored: pump ar hugain y cant ar gyfer dynion a 6 y cant ar gyfer menywod. Oherwydd y tywydd garw a gawn yn y rhan hon o’r byd, rhaid inni feddwl a gweithio’n greadigol i amlhau’r defnydd o gyfleusterau dan do. Y llynedd, gwnaethom gyhoeddi’r cynllun gweithredu addysg gorfforol a chwaraeon ysgol i Gymru, y rhoddodd y Gweinidog dros Addysg a Dysgu Gydol Oes £5 miliwn o gyllid ar ei gyfer dros y tair blynedd nesaf. Yr ydym hefyd yn rhoi sylw i strwythurau chwaraeon i oedolion. Mae’r cyngor chwaraeon wedi cyflwyno dyraniad penodol o gyllid loteri o £650,000 y flwyddyn i ddatblygu’r seilwaith i chwaraeon menywod, sef rhagor o glybiau, cynghreiriau, hyfforddwyr ac arweinwyr.

How often have we seen women’s teams coached by men and how rare is it to see the reverse? The challenge of improving the depth and quality of women in coaching and leadership roles is vital. I will make an announcement on coaching in the new year.

Pa mor aml y gwelwn ddynion yn hyfforddi timau menywod a pha mor anghyffredin yw gweld y gwrthwyneb yn digwydd? Mae’r her o wella cyrhaeddiad ac ansawdd menywod mewn rolau hyfforddi ac arwain yn hollbwysig. Gwnaf gyhoeddiad ar hyfforddi yn y flwyddyn newydd.

We need to understand why fewer females participate in sport. Access and opportunity are major factors. Interestingly, in countries such as Finland, the participation gap exists in reverse with more women and girls engaged in sport and physical activity than men. We propose to consider that phenomenon.

Rhaid inni ddeall pam y mae llai o fenywod yn cymryd rhan mewn chwaraeon. Mae mynediad a chyfle’n ffactorau o bwys. Mae’n ddiddorol bod y bwlch mewn cyfranogiad mewn gwledydd fel y Ffindir yn groes, a bod mwy o fenywod a merched yn cymryd rhan mewn chwaraeon a gweithgarwch corfforol na dynion. Bwriadwn ystyried y ffenomen honno.

What of elite women’s sport? The Welsh team for the empire and commonwealth games of 1958 in Cardiff was made up of 120 competitors of which only 18 were women. In this year’s Welsh team, out of more than 320 athletes, around 80 were female. That is almost a five-fold increase in numbers, but only a 10 per cent increase, from 15 per cent to 25 per cent, of the whole team. Out of a record total of 31 medals for Wales, women won 13. Great achievements such as those by Welsh women in Manchester and Leanda Cave’s stunning triumph in the world triathlon championships need to be celebrated. Wales now has a number of women who compete successfully on the world stage, such as Tanni Grey-Thompson, Nicole Cooke, Kelly Morgan, Hayley Tullet, Becky Morgan, Emma Brown, Michaela Breeze as well as successful teams such as the Rhondda Rebels and the Welsh netball team—a long way travelled perhaps, but still a long way to go.

Beth am chwaraeon menywod ar y lefel uchaf? Yr oedd tîm Cymru ar gyfer gemau’r ymerodraeth a’r gymanwlad yn 1958 yng Nghaerdydd yn cynnwys 120 o gystadleuwyr ac o’u plith dim ond 18 oedd yn fenywod. Yn nhîm Cymru eleni, o blith mwy na 320 o athletwyr, yr oedd 80 yn fenywod. Dyna gynnydd pumplyg bron o ran nifer, ond dim ond cynnydd o 10 y cant, o 15 y cant i 25 y cant, o’r tîm cyfan. O blith y cyfanswm mwyaf erioed o 31 o fedalau i Gymru, menywod a enillodd 13 ohonynt. Rhaid dathlu gorchestion gwych fel y rhai gan fenywod o Gymru ym Manceinion a buddugoliaeth aruthrol Leanda Cave ym mhencampwriaethau triathlon y byd. Bellach mae gan Gymru nifer o fenywod sy’n cystadlu’n llwyddiannus ar lwyfan y byd, fel Tanni Grey-Thompson, Nicole Cooke, Kelly Morgan, Hayley Tullet, Becky Morgan, Emma Brown, Michaela Breeze yn ogystal â thimau llwyddiannus fel y Rhondda Rebels a thîm pêl-rwyd Cymru—efallai ein bod wedi gwneud cynnydd da, ond mae taith hir o’n blaen eto.

We are creating some exceptional role models and, through the sports council’s press and media operation, we are endeavouring to use them to encourage participation. However, much more can be achieved in effective partnership with our major television companies and other media. On any given day if the sports media in Wales is given the choice between a David Beckham metatarsal problem and a Leanda Cave medal, what do you think is likely to be afforded top editorial billing? I ask broadcasting decision-makers to challenge the seemingly prehistoric pecking order of how they cover sport. Occasionally, the English male model should make way for the model Welsh woman—then we might get somewhere.

Yr ydym yn creu rhai rôl-fodelau eithriadol a, thrwy waith adran y wasg a’r cyfryngau yn y cyngor chwaraeon, yr ydym yn ceisio eu defnyddio i hybu cyfranogiad. Er hynny, gellir cyflawni llawer mwy mewn partneriaeth effeithiol â’n prif gwmnïau teledu a chyfryngau eraill. Pe rhoddid dewis ar unrhyw adeg i’r cyfryngau chwaraeon yng Nghymru rhwng problem fetatarsol David Beckham a medal Leanda Cave, beth a dybiech a fyddai’n debygol o gael y sylw pennaf gan y golygyddion? Gofynnaf i’r rhai sy’n gwneud y penderfyniadau ym myd darlledu herio’r drefn flaenoriaeth, sy’n ymddangos fel pe bai’n dyddio’n ôl i’r oes a fu, o ran y sylw a roddant i chwaraeon. Weithiau, dylai’r model gwrywaidd o Loegr ildio i’r model o Gymraes—wedyn gallem wneud cynnydd ar hyn.

I now turn to the amendments. I cannot support Jonathan Morgan’s amendment 1. First, the institute is a highly successful organisation, made up of enthusiastic staff and held up as a model of best practice throughout the UK. It is true that its buildings require some investment and that is being considered by the ongoing quinquennial review into the sports council as a whole and the Finance Minister committed to reconsider funding on this once that review is completed. Let us not confuse the institute with its buildings.

Trof yn awr at y gwelliannau. Ni allaf gefnogi gwelliant 1 Jonathan Morgan. Yn gyntaf, mae’r athrofa’n gorff tra llwyddiannus a chanddi staff brwdfrydig a chyfeirir ati fel patrwm o’r arfer gorau ledled y DU. Mae’n wir bod angen rhywfaint o fuddsoddi yn ei hadeiladau ac ystyrir hynny yn yr adolygiad pum-mlynedd cyfredol o’r cyngor chwaraeon yn ei gyfanrwydd ac mae’r Gweinidog Cyllid wedi ymrwymo i ailystyried cyllid ar gyfer hyn ar ôl cwblhau’r adolygiad hwnnw. Gadewch inni beidio â chymysgu rhwng yr athrofa a’i hadeiladau.

I accept the spirit in which amendment 2 was tabled, but on the clear understanding that the allocation of time within the school day is rightly a matter for schools. However, the Minister for Education and Lifelong Learning has already welcomed the recommendations of the physical education and school sport task force that schools be encouraged to provide two hours of PE per week. Eighteen school sport development centres have already been established; all the schools involved are committed to that principle.

Derbyniaf yr ysbryd y cyflwynwyd gwelliant 2 ynddo, ond ar y ddealltwriaeth glir mai ysgolion sydd i benderfynu ar ddyraniad amser o fewn y diwrnod ysgol. Fodd bynnag, mae’r Gweinidog dros Addysg a Dysgu Gydol Oes eisoes wedi croesawu argymhellion y tasglu addysg gorfforol a chwaraeon ysgol y dylid annog ysgolion i ddarparu dwy awr o addysg gorfforol yr wythnos. Mae 18 o ganolfannau datblygu chwaraeon ysgol wedi’u sefydlu eisoes; mae’r holl ysgolion sy’n cymryd rhan wedi ymrwymo i’r egwyddor honno.

I cannot support Jocelyn Davies’s amendment 3. Almost £50 million from the New Opportunities Fund programme is already being invested in schools for sports facilities, by working in co-operation with communities. Furthermore, £101 million is being made available from 2004-05 for schools capital development with further increases in the following two years. There has never been a programme of investment in school buildings in Wales on such a scale.

Ni allaf gefnogi gwelliant 3 Jocelyn Davies. Mae ymron £50 miliwn o raglen y Gronfa Cyfleoedd Newydd yn cael ei fuddsoddi eisoes mewn ysgolion ar gyfer cyfleusterau chwaraeon, gan weithio mewn cydweithrediad â chymunedau. At hynny, darperir £101 miliwn o 2004-05 ymlaen ar gyfer datblygu cyfalaf ysgolion a bydd codiadau pellach yn y ddwy flynedd ar ôl hynny. Ni fu erioed raglen o fuddsoddi mewn adeiladau ysgol yng Nghymru ar y fath raddfa.

Rhodri Glyn Thomas spoken in English p. 51

Rhodri Glyn Thomas siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 51

On amendment 3, we accept that investment has been made, but are you saying that that investment is enough to ensure that young women have sufficient opportunities in schools to participate in sport?

Ynghylch gwelliant 3, yr ydym yn derbyn bod buddsoddiad wedi bod, ond a ydych yn dweud bod y buddsoddiad yn ddigon i sicrhau bod menywod ifanc yn cael digon o gyfleoedd mewn ysgolion i gymryd rhan mewn chwaraeon?

Jenny Randerson spoken in English p. 52

Jenny Randerson siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 52

The ongoing investment is on a scale never seen before, and it has been made within the budget available. The investment in schools sports facilities is generous. At the end of the period, we will reconsider whether a greater investment is needed. In terms of the effectiveness of what we can produce, such an opportunity has never been given to us before in Wales.

Mae’r buddsoddi cyfredol ar raddfa nas gwelwyd o’r blaen, ac fe’i gwnaed o fewn y gyllideb a oedd ar gael. Mae’r buddsoddiad mewn cyfleusterau chwaraeon ysgol yn hael. Ar ddiwedd y cyfnod, gwnawn ailystyried a oes angen rhagor o fuddsoddi. O ran effeithiolrwydd yr hyn y gallwn ei gynhyrchu, ni chawsom y fath gyfle erioed o’r blaen yng Nghymru.

Finally, I support amendment 4. Regional multi-sport centres is one of several initiatives currently being considered for the future of sport in Wales. I am happy to support the amendment in the spirit of considering new ideas. I will listen with interest to the comments of fellow Members during the debate. I have a particular interest in good and new ideas, and in the problems that people will raise.

Yn olaf, cefnogaf welliant 4. Mae canolfannau aml-gamp rhanbarthol yn un o blith nifer o fentrau sy’n cael eu hystyried ar hyn o bryd ar gyfer dyfodol chwaraeon yng Nghymru. Yr wyf yn falch o gefnogi’r gwelliant o ran ystyried syniadau newydd. Gwrandawaf gyda diddordeb ar sylwadau fy nghyd-Aelodau yn ystod y ddadl. Ymddiddoraf yn arbennig mewn syniadau da a newydd, ac yn y problemau y cyfeirir atynt.

Glyn Davies spoken in English p. 52

Glyn Davies siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 52

I propose the following amendments in the name of Jonathan Morgan. Amendment 1: add a new point:

Cynigiaf y gwelliannau canlynol yn enw Jonathan Morgan. Gwelliant 1: ychwanegu pwynt newydd:

Glyn Davies (continued) spoken in English p. 52

Glyn Davies (parhad) siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 52

I propose amendment 2. Add a new point:

Cynigiaf welliant 2. Ychwanegu pwynt newydd:

Glyn Davies (continued) spoken in English p. 52

Glyn Davies (parhad) siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 52

I welcome this debate on participation in sport particularly among women and girls. This issue was of great personal interest to me long before I became an Assembly Member. It is vital to increase participation rates across all groups, but particularly among women and older people. I have reached—or I am approaching—pensionable age, and encouraging older people to participate to a much greater extent in sport is important.

Croesawaf y ddadl hon ar gymryd rhan mewn chwaraeon yn enwedig o ran menywod a merched. Yr oedd y mater hwn o ddiddordeb mawr imi’n bersonol ymhell cyn imi ddod yn Aelod o’r Cynulliad. Mae’n hollbwysig codi’r cyfraddau cyfranogi ym mhob grŵp, ond yn enwedig ymysg menywod a phobl hŷn. Yr wyf wedi cyrraedd—neu bron â chyrraedd—oed pensiwn, ac mae annog pobl hŷn i gymryd llawer mwy o ran mewn chwaraeon yn bwysig.

I have some family experience of the difficulties facing women who are interested in sport. I have always been a sports fanatic and I dearly wanted my children to succeed in sport. My three sons never had any trouble, but my daughter did. She was a good cricketer and wanted to play for the Welsh team, but could not; cricket was not available in Wales. To achieve her goals, she had to move to the midlands. She played for East Midlands and captained the British Universities team for a long time. That could not have happened in Wales, and that is poor. We desperately need to change that situation.

Mae gennyf beth profiad teuluol o’r anawsterau sy’n wynebu menywod sy’n ymddiddori mewn chwaraeon. Bu gennyf ddiddordeb aruthrol mewn chwaraeon erioed ac yr oedd arnaf awydd mawr gweld fy mhlant yn llwyddo mewn chwaraeon. Ni chafodd fy nhri mab unrhyw anhawster erioed, ond nid felly fy merch. Yr oedd yn gricedwraig dda ac am chwarae dros dîm Cymru, ond ni allai; nid oedd criced ar gael yng Nghymru. Er mwyn cyflawni ei nod, bu’n rhaid iddi symud i ganolbarth Lloegr. Chwaraeodd dros Ddwyrain Canolbarth Lloegr a bu’n gapten ar dîm Prifysgolion Prydain am gyfnod maith. Ni allasai hynny ddigwydd yng Nghymru, ac mae hynny’n beth gwael. Mae taer angen inni newid y sefyllfa honno.

The Sports Council for Wales must be praised for its work. The Minister referred to it and I share her views. I spend a lot of time talking with representatives of the sports council about these issues. The Minister is right—several panels, plans and schemes have been successful. The Welsh Assembly Government and the Assembly as a whole—because we all participate in this—are out of the blocks on this issue. We have started to reduce the gap in participation rates between men and women. We should continue to encourage that.

Rhaid canmol Cyngor Chwaraeon Cymru ar ei waith. Cyfeiriodd y Gweinidog ato ac yr wyf o’r un farn â hi. Treuliaf lawer o amser yn siarad â chynrychiolwyr y cyngor chwaraeon am y materion hyn. Mae’r Gweinidog yn gywir—mae sawl panel a chynllun wedi llwyddo. Mae Llywodraeth Cynulliad Cymru a’r Cynulliad cyfan—gan ein bod i gyd yn cymryd rhan yn hyn—wedi cychwyn ymdrin â’r mater hwn. Yr ydym wedi dechrau cau’r bwlch yn y cyfraddau cyfranogi rhwng dynion a menywod. Dylem barhau i hybu hynny.

The only problem with today’s debate is that there is not much room for disagreement. Even amendment 1 with which the Minister disagreed is probably only a misunderstanding between us. This discussion is not even taking place against a budgetary background where hard choices have to be made. We all agree with this debate.

Yr unig anhawster ynghylch y ddadl heddiw yw nad oes fawr o le i anghytuno. Mae’n debyg mai dim ond camddealltwriaeth rhyngom, hyd yn oed, yw gwelliant 1, yr anghytunai’r Gweinidog ag ef. Nid yw’r drafodaeth hon yn digwydd mewn cyd-destun cyllidebol hyd yn oed, lle y mae’n rhaid gwneud dewisiadau anodd. Yr ydym oll yn cytuno â’r ddadl hon.

As I said earlier, I have always been a sports fanatic—I have been running for the best part of 46 years. Many years ago, when I was chairman of the Montgomeryshire District Council, within a two to three year period, sports centres, which all included swimming pools and much else, were built in every town of more 2,000 inhabitants in the whole district. My fanaticism for sport cost the ratepayer in Montgomeryshire a lot of money, but it was money well spent. The Government refers to health in the motion. Participation in sport by everyone is crucial in terms of health. You can never predict when a commitment to personal fitness and health will turn out to be useful in life—that happens.

Fel y dywedais yn gynharach, bu gennyf ddiddordeb aruthrol mewn chwaraeon erioed—yr wyf yn rhedeg ers ymron i 46 mlynedd. Lawer blwyddyn yn ôl, pan oeddwn yn gadeirydd Cyngor Dosbarth Sir Drefaldwyn, o fewn cyfnod o ddwy i dair blynedd, codwyd canolfannau chwaraeon, a phob un yn cynnwys pwll nofio a llawer o bethau eraill, ym mhob tref a oedd â mwy na 2,000 o drigolion yn y cylch. Bu i’m diddordeb aruthrol mewn chwaraeon gostio’n ddrud i’r trethdalwr yn sir Drefaldwyn, ond yr oedd yn wario doeth. Cyfeiria’r Llywodraeth at iechyd yn y cynnig. Mae’n hollbwysig bod pawb yn cymryd rhan mewn chwaraeon o ran eu hiechyd. Ni allwch fyth ragweld pa bryd y bydd ymroddiad i ffitrwydd ac iechyd personol yn profi’n fuddiol mewn bywyd—mae hynny’n digwydd.

Lifestyle is the issue that matters most. When I see young people on television hanging about—it probably happens more in cities than in rural areas—I consider that to be such a tragedy. Sport can make a massive difference to people’s lives. To refer again to my personal background, at one point in my life—and I am sure that Members can say the same—I might easily have gone down the wrong road. Some people might say that becoming an Assembly Member and joining the Tory party was going down the wrong road. Between the ages of 16 and 20, I drank a lot and was very wild. But I gave that up; I tempered that activity to a large extent. It was an obsession with sport and a desire to be fit and be good at playing rugby, which is something I really wanted to do, that completely changed my life. Sport has the potential to change the lives of a whole host of people. That is important.

Ffordd o fyw yw’r mater pwysicaf. Pan welaf bobl ifanc ar y teledu’n tin-droi—mae’n debyg ei fod yn digwydd yn amlach mewn dinasoedd nag mewn ardaloedd gwledig—credaf fod hynny’n drychineb. Gall chwaraeon wneud gwahaniaeth aruthrol ym mywydau pobl. Gan gyfeirio eto at fy nghefndir personol, ar un adeg yn fy mywyd—ac yr wyf yn siŵr y gall Aelodau eraill ddweud yr un peth—byddai wedi bod yn hawdd iawn imi fynd ar gyfeiliorn. Gallai rhai ddweud mai mynd ar gyfeiliorn oedd dod yn Aelod o’r Cynulliad ac ymuno â’r blaid Dorïaidd. Rhwng 16 ac 20 mlwydd oed, yr oeddwn yn yfed llawer ac yr oeddwn yn wyllt iawn. Ond rhoddais y gorau i hynny; llwyddais i reoli’r gweithgarwch hwnnw i raddau helaeth. Obsesiwn â chwaraeon ac awydd i fod yn ffit ac yn dda am chwarae rygbi—rhywbeth yr oedd arnaf wir eisiau ei wneud—a drawsnewidiodd fy mywyd. Gall chwaraeon newid bywydau llawer iawn o bobl. Mae hynny’n bwysig.

I turn to the amendments. Minister, amendment 1 refers to the buildings of the Welsh Institute of Sport, Cardiff. If we are going to have a structure that incorporates schools, community groups and sporting clubs, it is crucial to have a pinnacle. The institute is terrific—it deals with minority sports in a unique way. We cannot lose that and we must ensure that that investment is protected. The institute requires more investment. I do not have time to discuss amendment 2 in detail, but I am pleased that the Minister supports it. We will support Plaid Cymru’s amendments 3 and 4.

Trof at y gwelliannau. Weinidog, mae gwelliant 1 yn cyfeirio at adeiladau Athrofa Chwaraeon Cymru, Caerdydd. Os ydym i gael strwythur sy’n cynnwys ysgolion, grwpiau cymunedol a chlybiau chwaraeon, mae’n hollbwysig inni gael pinacl. Mae’r athrofa’n wych—mae’n ymdrin â chwaraeon lleiafrifol mewn modd unigryw. Rhaid inni beidio â cholli hynny a rhaid inni sicrhau y caiff y buddsoddiad hwnnw ei warchod. Mae angen buddsoddi rhagor yn yr athrofa. Nid oes gennyf ddigon o amser i drafod gwelliant 2 yn fanwl, ond yr wyf yn falch bod y Gweinidog yn ei gefnogi. Gwnawn gefnogi gwelliannau 3 a 4 Plaid Cymru.

Finally, I will say that no government has ever made a sufficient commitment to sport or given enough priority to developing personal fitness by means of personal plans. I hope that the Government’s successful start will continue and that it will bring greater success in the future.

Yn olaf, dywedaf nad oes yr un llywodraeth erioed wedi ymrwymo’n ddigonol i chwaraeon nac wedi rhoi digon o flaenoriaeth i ddatblygu ffitrwydd personol drwy gynlluniau personol. Gobeithiaf y bydd y Llywodraeth yn parhau i wneud cynnydd ar ôl cychwyn yn llwyddiannus ac y daw â rhagor o lwyddiant yn y dyfodol.

Owen John Thomas siaradwyd yn Gymraeg t. 55

Owen John Thomas spoken in Welsh p. 55

Cynigiaf y gwelliannau canlynol yn enw Jocelyn Davies. Gwelliant 3: ychwanegu pwynt newydd ar ddiwedd y cynnig:

I propose the following amendments in the name of Jocelyn Davies. Amendment 3: add as a new point at the end of the motion:

Owen John Thomas (parhad) siaradwyd yn Gymraeg t. 55

Owen John Thomas (continued) spoken in Welsh p. 55

Cynigiaf welliant 4. Ychwanegu pwynt newydd ar ddiwedd y cynnig:

I propose amendment 4. Add as a new point at the end of the motion:

Owen John Thomas (parhad) siaradwyd yn Gymraeg t. 55

Owen John Thomas (continued) spoken in Welsh p. 55

Dechreuaf drwy gydnabod pwysigrwydd chwaraeon yn gyffredinol mewn cymdeithas i ddynion a menywod fel ei gilydd. Faint ohonom erbyn hyn sydd yn troi’r teledu ymlaen er mwyn gwylio gemau yn hytrach na chymryd rhan ein hunain? Pwrpas y ddadl hon yw annog pobl, a merched yn arbennig, i ddiffodd eu setiau teledu a chodi o’u cadeiriau cyfforddus a mentro cymryd rhan mewn chwaraeon.

I begin by acknowledging the importance of sport in general in society to men and women alike. How many of us now turn the television on in order to watch matches rather than take part ourselves? The aim of this debate is to encourage people, and women in particular, to leave their television sets and comfortable sofas behind and to venture to participate in sport.

Yn gyntaf, rhaid ystyried beth sydd angen ei wneud er mwyn hybu’r gweithgarwch hwn. Rhaid inni ddechrau yn y dechrau drwy sicrhau adnoddau addas yn yr ysgolion. Ar hyn o bryd—a siaradaf o brofiad fel cyn-athro—nid oes digon o adnoddau sylfaenol ar gael yn nifer o’n hysgolion. Mae angen ystafelloedd newid pwrpasol gyda chawodydd, meysydd chwarae, neuaddau penodedig ar gyfer chwaraeon, cyfleusterau chwaraeon dan do, ac athrawon cymwys sy’n gallu symbylu ac arwain plant. Eto i gyd, y realiti yn llawer gormod o’n hysgolion yw bod chwaraeon yn gorfod brwydro gydag anghenion eraill yr ysgol gyda merched yn cuddio mewn corneli i newid, neuaddau chwaraeon yn cael eu defnyddio fel ffreutur, ac athrawon sydd heb gymwysterau priodol yn gwneud eu gorau i hyfforddi’r plant.

First, we must consider what needs to be done to promote this activity. We must begin at the beginning by ensuring that adequate resources are available in schools. At the moment—and I speak from experience as a former teacher—many of our schools do not have enough basic resources. We need purpose built changing rooms with showers, playing fields, dedicated sport halls, indoor sports facilities, and qualified teachers who can lead and motivate children. Yet the reality in far too many of our schools is that sport must fight with schools’ other needs, so that girls must hide in corners to get changed; sports halls are used as canteens and teachers without appropriate qualifications do their best to coach the children.

Mae’r diffygion hyn yn enghraifft o broblem y gellid ei datrys i raddau helaeth gyda mwy o arian a thrwy wario mwy ar y gyllideb addysg. Ymhen amser, gwelem fanteision cael cymdeithas iachach. Hoffwn dynnu eich sylw at adroddiadau a gyhoeddwyd yn ddiweddar gan Gyngor Chwaraeon Cymru. Cyfeiria un ohonynt at chwaraeon mewn ysgolion, ac at nifer y plant sydd yn cymryd rhan. Credwch neu beidio—ac ni chyfeiriodd y Gweinidog at hyn—y gêm fwyaf poblogaidd ymhlith plant ysgol gynradd yw pel fâs. Mae’n dda gennyf ddweud bod mwy o ferched na bechgyn yn ei chwarae: 83 y cant o ferched o’i gymharu â 79 y cant o fechgyn. Beth a wnewch i hybu’r diddordeb hwn ymhlith ein hieuenctid, Weinidog, a sut y sicrhewch eu bod yn cael y cyfle i barhau i chwarae’r gêm ar ôl gadael yr ysgol gynradd?

These deficiencies are a symptom of a problem that could be solved to a certain extent through funding, and by spending more on the education budget. In time, we would see the benefits of a healthier society. I draw your attention to reports recently published by the Sports Council for Wales. One of them refers to sports in schools and to the number of children that participate in sports. Believe it or not—and the Minister did not refer to this—the most popular game among primary school children is baseball. I am happy to say that more girls play baseball than boys: 83 per cent of girls compared with 79 per cent of boys. What are you doing to promote this interest among our young people, Minister, and how will you ensure that they are given an opportunity to continue playing the game after they leave primary school?

Geraint Davies siaradwyd yn Gymraeg t. 56

Geraint Davies spoken in Welsh p. 56

A gytunwch fod delwedd yn holl bwysig i’r ieuenctid, ac a wnewch ymuno â mi i longyfarch tîm pêl-fasged llwyddiannus y Rhondda Rebels, sydd yn gwneud gwaith arbennig i hybu delwedd a chodi proffeil menywod ym myd chwaraeon?

Do you agree that image is vitally important to young people and will you join with me in congratulating the success of the Rhondda Rebels basketball team, who are doing excellent work in promoting the image and raising the profile of women in sport?

Owen John Thomas siaradwyd yn Gymraeg t. 56

Owen John Thomas spoken in Welsh p. 56

Cytunaf yn llwyr. Yr wyf yn falch bob tro y trof y teledu ymlaen a gweld y Rhondda Rebels yn chwarare. Maent wedi lledaenu enw’r Rhondda ledled Prydain ac mae hynny’n dda. Pob lwc iddynt yn y dyfodol. Yr ydym angen mwy o dimoedd felly.

I wholeheartedly agree. I feel proud every time I turn the television on and see the Rhondda Rebels play. They have put the Rhondda on the map throughout Britain and that is good. I wish them luck in the future. We need more such teams.

Mae’r ail adroddiad yn cymharu lefelau cymryd rhan mewn chwaraeon o ran dynion a merched dros 15 oed. Ymhob achos, mae mwy o ddynion yn cymryd rhan na merched.

The second report compares the participation levels of men and women over 15 years of age. In every case, more men participate than women.

Y mae’n amlwg bod angen gwario, nid yn unig yn yr ysgolion, ond wrth ddarparu canolfannau hamdden, pyllau nofio ac ati. Eto i gyd, mewn llawer o’n dinasoedd a’n trefi mawr, mae’r nifer o fenywod sy’n ymuno â chlybiau ffitrwydd preifat yn brawf o’r awydd i gadw’n heini ymhlith pobl sy’n gallu fforddio gwneud hynny.

It is obvious that investment is needed, not only within schools, but in providing leisure centres, swimming pools and so on. Having said that, in many of our cities and large towns, the number of women joining private fitness clubs is proof of the desire to keep fit among those people who can afford it.

Mae’r cynnig a’r gwelliannau yn ymgais i sicrhau bod y manteision hyn o fewn cyrraedd pawb. Yr ydym felly o blaid y cynnig gwreiddiol, ond yn dymuno mynd ychydig ymhellach. Mae gwelliant 1, yn ein barn ni, yn amherthnasol i ffocws canolog y cynnig. Wrth gwrs yr ydym o blaid cryfhau Athrofa Chwaraeon Cymru, ac yn dymuno pob llwyddiant iddi, ond nid ydym yn credu mai drwy’r cynnig hwn y gallwn ganolbwyntio ar gynyddu gweithgarwch merched a menywod mewn chwaraeon.

The motion and the amendments are an attempt to ensure that such benefits are within everyone’s reach. We therefore support the original motion, but want to go a little further. Amendment 1, in our opinion, is irrelevant to the central focus of the motion. Of course we are in favour of strengthening the Welsh Institute of Sport, and we wish it every success, but we do not believe that this motion is the means of enabling us to concentrate on increasing girls’ and women’s activity in sports.

Nid oes llawer o ddiben i welliant 2 oni bai bod adnoddau ar gael mewn ysgolion. Gadewch inni sicrhau’r adnoddau, o ran adeiladau a staff, er mwyn cyrraedd y nod. Sicrhau’r adnoddau yw amcan gwelliant 3. Ni chredaf fod yr arian y bu ichi gyfeirio ato yn ddigon i sicrhau y cawn fwy o neuaddau chwaraeon, meysydd chwarae a staff sy’n arbenigwyr yn y maes i ateb y galw. Mae gwelliant 4 yn apelio’n hollol resymol dros wneud y defnydd gorau posibl o’r adnoddau sy’n bodoli eisoes, ac i ychwanegu atynt lle bo angen. Mae adnoddau ardderchog yn perthyn i rai sefydliadau cyhoeddus nad ydynt yn cael eu defnyddio cymaint ag y dylent.

There is not much point to amendment 2 unless the resources are available in schools. Let us secure the resources, in terms of buildings and staff, in order to reach the target. Amendment 3 is aimed at securing resources. I do not believe that the money to which you referred is adequate to secure more sports halls, playing fields and expert staff to meet the demand. Amendment 4 appeals quite reasonably for making the best possible use of the resources that already exist, and to add to them where necessary. Some public establishments have excellent resources that are not used as much as they should be.

Felly, er imi deimlo bod gwelliant 1 braidd yn amherthnasol, byddai ailsefydlu’r ganolfan yn gwella’r sefyllfa, er yn gyfyngedig i Gaerdydd. I gael Cymru iachach, mwy llewyrchus a mwy llwyddiannus, cefnogwch welliannau 1, 2, 3 a 4.

Therefore, although I feel that amendment 1 is somewhat irrelevant, renovating the centre would improve the situation, although only in Cardiff. For a healthier, more prosperous and more successful Wales, support amendments 1, 2, 3 and 4.

Val Lloyd spoken in English p. 57

Val Lloyd siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 57

I know, from my schooldays, that physical education was a different ballgame for girls and boys. How I dreaded—and still dread, when I think about it—those cold dank changing rooms in the school basement, or the even more spartan changing facilities at the hockey pitch. That was even before being subjected to the compulsory weekly horror of games. You may now understand why, for many years, I was left with a negative attitude to participating in any form of sporting physical activity, which, I am pleased to say, I have since overcome. However, from the statistics given by the Minister earlier, many other women could well have similar experiences. There can be no better place to start effectively tackling inequalities of participation in sport than in schools.

Yr wyf yn gwybod, ers fy nyddiau ysgol, fod addysg gorfforol yn rhywbeth gwahanol i ferched ac i fechgyn. Gymaint yr ofnwn—ac yr ofnaf o hyd, pan feddyliaf amdanynt—yr ystafelloedd newid llaith ac oer hynny yn islawr yr ysgol, neu’r cyfleusterau newid llymach byth ger y maes hoci. Yr oedd hynny cyn gorfod mynd drwy arswyd wythnosol chwaraeon. Efallai y gallwch ddeall yn awr pam yr oedd gennyf agwedd negyddol, am flynyddoedd lawer, at gymryd rhan mewn unrhyw fath o weithgarwch chwaraeon corfforol, er fy mod wedi goresgyn hynny bellach, mae’n dda gennyf ddweud. Fodd bynnag, a barnu yn ôl yr ystadegau a roddodd y Gweinidog yn gynharach, mae’n bosibl iawn bod menywod eraill wedi cael profiadau tebyg. Ni ellir cael lle gwell nag ysgolion i ddechrau ymdrin yn effeithiol ag anghydraddoldeb o ran cymryd rhan mewn chwaraeon.

As has been said, it is important that we bring about a cultural change in attitudes towards female participation, not only among the media and the sporting establishment, but among families and peers and the sporting public. For me, a little less emphasis on ‘footie’ and a little more on a wider range of sports would be welcome, especially in the press and on television. That might go a long way towards encouraging female participation in sport.

Fel y dywedwyd, mae’n bwysig inni beri newid diwylliannol yn yr agweddau at gymryd rhan gan fenywod, nid yn unig yn y cyfryngau a’r sefydliad chwaraeon, ond ymysg teuluoedd a chyfoedion a’r cyhoedd sy’n ymddiddori mewn chwaraeon. Yn fy marn i, byddai pwyslais ychydig llai ar bêl-droed ac un ychydig mwy ar amrediad ehangach o chwaraeon yn beth i’w groesawu, yn enwedig yn y wasg ac ar y teledu. Gallai hynny gyfrannu’n helaeth at hybu cyfranogiad mewn chwaraeon ymysg menywod.

I am pleased with the progress made to date, thanks to the Labour-led Welsh Assembly Government investment, in the Girls First programme, for example. It has been an exceptionally well received scheme, raising the profile of sport for girls in our schools. More than 14,000 girls took part in 147 schools in only the first year of the programme, which is a terrific start. In addition, thanks to recent record investment in provision for sport in education, the number and range of opportunities for girls to play sport is increasing. I wish that they had been around sooner.

Yr wyf yn falch o’r cynnydd a wnaed hyd yn hyn, diolch i’r buddsoddiad gan Lywodraeth Cynulliad Cymru dan arweiniad Llafur, yn y rhaglen Genethod yn Gyntaf, er enghraifft. Cafodd y cynllun dderbyniad arbennig o dda, a rhoddodd le mwy amlwg i chwaraeon i ferched yn ein hysgolion. Gwnaeth mwy na 14,000 o ferched gymryd rhan mewn 147 o ysgolion ym mlwyddyn gyntaf y rhaglen yn unig, sy’n ddechrau rhagorol. Yn ogystal â hynny, diolch i’r buddsoddi mwyaf erioed yn ddiweddar yn y ddarpariaeth ar gyfer chwaraeon mewn addysg, mae nifer ac amrywiaeth y cyfleoedd i ferched mewn chwaraeon ar gynnydd. Byddai’n dda gennyf pe buasent ar gael yn gynt.

Physical education and sport make a vital contribution to the health, physical fitness and general development of young people. As well as being enjoyable in themselves, they have long-term effects, which we would do very well to take on board.

Mae addysg gorfforol a chwaraeon yn hollbwysig o ran eu cyfraniad at iechyd, ffitrwydd corfforol a datblygiad cyffredinol pobl ifanc. Yn ogystal â bod yn bleserus ynddynt eu hun, cânt effeithiau tymor hir, y byddai’n ddoeth iawn inni eu hystyried.

We must continue to ensure that all young people—girls as well as boys—have the opportunity at school to develop their physical skills and improve their understanding of how important health and fitness will be throughout their lives. It is encouraging to note that Wales, as Glyn has already said—or should I say punned—is out of the starting blocks on this subject, with increased demand from girls for participation in traditionally male-dominated sports such as rugby and soccer. On a more personal note, I dearly wish that the same could be said for cricket.

Rhaid inni ddal i sicrhau bod pob person ifanc—merched yn ogystal â bechgyn—yn cael cyfle yn yr ysgol i ddatblygu ei sgiliau corfforol a deall yn well pa mor bwysig y bydd iechyd a ffitrwydd gydol eu hoes. Calonogol yw nodi, fel y mae Glyn eisoes wedi dweud—neu fwyseirio y dylwn ddweud—fod Cymru eisoes wedi cychwyn yn y ras ar y mater hwn, gyda galw cynyddol gan ferched am gael cymryd rhan mewn chwaraeon fel rygbi a phêl-droed a chwaraeir gan ddynion yn bennaf yn draddodiadol. Ar nodyn mwy personol, byddai’n dda iawn gennyf allu dweud yr un peth am griced.

However, there are still many hurdles left to clear, if we are truly to make a step-change for female participation in sport. Figures produced by the Sports Council for Wales on adult participation in sport show that, in my constituency, less than 40 per cent of women, compared with almost 65 per cent of men, take part in regular sporting activity. I hope that that trend can be turned around in the next 10 years or so. Thanks to continued investment in sport, in schools and in the wider community, we are making great strides in this important field, which will undoubtedly lead to a healthier lifestyle for both genders in Wales.

Fodd bynnag, mae llawer o rwystrau i’w goresgyn eto, os ydym i sicrhau newid sylweddol o ran cyfranogiad menywod mewn chwaraeon. Mae ffigurau a gynhyrchwyd gan Gyngor Chwaraeon Cymru ar gyfranogiad oedolion mewn chwaraeon yn dangos, yn fy etholaeth i, fod llai na 40 y cant o fenywod, o’i gymharu â bron 65 y cant o ddynion, yn cymryd rhan mewn gweithgaredd chwaraeon yn rheolaidd. Gobeithiaf y bydd modd trawsnewid y duedd honno yn y 10 mlynedd nesaf, fwy neu lai. Diolch i’r buddsoddi parhaus mewn chwaraeon, mewn ysgolion ac yn y gymuned yn gyffredinol, yr ydym yn cymryd camau bras yn y maes pwysig hwn, a bydd hynny’n sicr o arwain at ffordd o fyw fwy iach i’r ddau ryw yng Nghymru.

Peter Black spoken in English p. 59

Peter Black siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 59

I support the policy and the motion. It is important that we seek to increase female participation in sport, and that we ensure that once young people are engaged in sporting activity, they maintain that interest and involvement throughout their lives—that applies, of course, to male and female participants.

Cefnogaf y polisi a’r cynnig. Mae’n bwysig inni geisio cael mwy o fenywod i gymryd rhan mewn chwaraeon, a’n bod yn sicrhau bod pobl ifanc, wedi iddynt ddechrau cymryd rhan mewn gweithgaredd chwaraeon, yn parhau â’r diddordeb a’r cysylltiad hwnnw gydol eu hoes—mae hynny’n berthnasol, wrth gwrs, i’r dynion a’r menywod sy’n cymryd rhan.

Exercise and healthy eating are prerequisite to improving the overall health of the nation, which together with other preventative measures such as good quality housing and the reduction of air pollution can contribute significantly to reducing the cost to the public purse of the NHS. Many athletes have used their prowess in their sport as a way out of poverty or deprived circumstances. In that sense, sport is an opportunity and a meaningful distraction from anti-social behaviour—a distraction that should be encouraged. Many issues that apply to involving females in sport apply generally—for example, good transport links, affordable and accessible facilities and coaching. Often a mentor, good teacher or parent can generate genuine enthusiasm in others for the sport or activity.

Mae ymarfer a bwyta’n iach yn hanfodol i wella iechyd cyffredinol y genedl, ac mae hynny ynghyd â mesurau ataliol eraill fel tai o ansawdd da a lleihau difwyniant yn yr aer yn gallu cyfrannu’n sylweddol at leihau’r gost i bwrs cyhoeddus y GIG. Mae llawer o athletwyr wedi defnyddio eu medr yn eu camp fel modd i ddianc rhag tlodi neu amgylchiadau difreintiedig. Yn yr ystyr honno, mae chwaraeon yn gyfle ac yn wrthdyniad ystyrlon i ymddygiad gwrthgymdeithasol—gwrthdyniad y dylid ei hyrwyddo. Mae llawer o faterion sy’n berthnasol i gynnwys menywod mewn chwaraeon yn berthnasol yn gyffredinol—er enghraifft, cysylltiadau trafnidiaeth da, cyfleusterau a hyfforddi fforddiadwy a hygyrch. Yn aml gall mentor, athro da neu riant ennyn gwir frwdfrydedd mewn eraill ynghylch y gamp neu’r gweithgaredd.

Safety is also an issue in terms of ensuring that facilities are properly protected and accessible, properly lit, monitored by closed circuit television and designed to minimise crime. That issue must be taken up by local authorities as well as by the National Assembly for Wales.

Mae diogelwch yn fater pwysig hefyd o ran sicrhau bod cyfleusterau wedi’u gwarchod yn briodol a’u bod yn hygyrch, a’u bod wedi’u goleuo’n briodol, eu monitro drwy deledu cylch caeëdig a’u cynllunio i ostwng troseddu. Rhaid i’r mater hwnnw gael ei ystyried gan yr awdurdodau lleol yn ogystal â Chynulliad Cenedlaethol Cymru.

I will concentrate on access and affordability as key issues in increasing participation in sport. The success of the Minister for Culture, Sport and the Welsh Language in introducing free access to museums across Wales nine months ahead of England has been successful and popular. The introduction of that measure has led to a massive increase in the number of adults and young people visiting those institutions and learning about our culture and heritage.

Canolbwyntiaf ar fynediad a fforddiadwyedd fel materion allweddol wrth gynyddu’r cyfranogiad mewn chwaraeon. Mae llwyddiant y Gweinidog dros Ddiwylliant, Chwaraeon a’r Gymraeg wrth gyflwyno mynediad am ddim i amgueddfeydd ledled Cymru naw mis o flaen Lloegr wedi bod yn llwyddiannus a phoblogaidd. Mae cyflwyno’r mesur hwnnw wedi arwain at gynnydd aruthrol yn nifer yr oedolion a phobl ifanc sy’n ymweld â’r sefydliadau hynny ac yn dysgu am ein diwylliant a’n treftadaeth.

In October, the Welsh Liberal Democrats published our policy on arts, culture and sport in which we proposed an extension of that approach. We suggested that free access to all sporting facilities run by Welsh local authorities be provided for all children under the age of 16 and all students in further and higher education when finances allow. I note that five days later, in her budget speech, the Finance Minister took up that theme by establishing a working group with the Welsh Local Government Association to consider free access for children and young people to local authority leisure centres during school holidays. Clearly, that is a start, but wider issues are involved, such as the need for free access, not just during the school holidays, but all year around. Finance is obviously a restraining influence, as is the way we control such access so as not to exclude adults. We have an opportunity to take forward this agenda to encourage participation in sport, advocate a healthier lifestyle and discourage anti-social behaviour. Will the Minister take up that proposal for a wider extension of free access to leisure centres with the working group so as to build a sporting ethos into the everyday life of young people?

Ym mis Hydref, cyhoeddodd Democratiaid Rhyddfrydol Cymru ein polisi ar y celfyddydau, diwylliant a chwaraeon lle y gwnaethom gynnig ehangu’r dull gweithredu hwnnw. Gwnaethom awgrymu y dylid darparu mynediad am ddim i’r holl gyfleusterau chwaraeon sy’n cael eu rhedeg gan awdurdodau lleol yng Nghymru ar gyfer pob plentyn dan 16 oed a phob myfyriwr mewn addysg bellach ac uwch pan fydd cyllid yn caniatáu. Nodaf fod y Gweinidog Cyllid, yn ei haraith ar y gyllideb bum diwrnod yn ddiweddarach, wedi dilyn y thema honno drwy sefydlu gweithgor gyda Chymdeithas Llywodraeth Leol Cymru i ystyried mynediad am ddim ar gyfer plant a phobl ifanc i ganolfannau hamdden awdurdodau lleol yn ystod y gwyliau ysgol. Mae hynny’n ddechrau, wrth gwrs, ond mae materion ehangach yn gysylltiedig â hyn, fel yr angen am fynediad am ddim, nid yn unig yn ystod y gwyliau ysgol, ond gydol y flwyddyn. Mae’n amlwg bod cyllid yn ddylanwad sy’n cyfyngu ar hyn, fel y mae’r modd yr ydym yn rheoli mynediad o’r fath fel na chaiff oedolion eu hallgáu. Mae gennym gyfle i hyrwyddo’r agenda hon drwy annog pobl i gymryd rhan mewn chwaraeon, cymell ffordd o fyw iachach ac anghefnogi ymddygiad gwrthgymdeithasol. A wnaiff y Gweinidog godi’r awgrym hwnnw am ehangu mynediad am ddim i gynnwys canolfannau hamdden gyda’r gweithgor fel y gellir gwneud ethos chwaraeon yn rhan annatod o fywyd pob dydd pobl ifanc?

Gwenda Thomas spoken in English p. 61

Gwenda Thomas siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 61

I support the motion, but will speak specifically to its second point on the Sports Council for Wales’s targets to increase the participation of women and girls in sport. I regret that the Sports Council for Wales has not supported the development of the Llandarcy academy of sports and learning. Huw Jones, the chief executive officer, has stated in writing that the proposed facility is by no means essential or significant to the needs of sports development. How can that be when today’s motion emphasises the need to encourage greater participation in sport and physical activity among women and girls?

Cefnogaf y cynnig, ond siaradaf yn benodol ar yr ail bwynt ynddo ar dargedau Cyngor Chwaraeon Cymru i sicrhau bod mwy o fenywod a merched yn cymryd rhan mewn chwaraeon. Mae’n ofid i mi nad yw Cyngor Chwaraeon Cymru wedi cefnogi datblygiad academi chwaraeon a dysgu Llandarsi. Mae Huw Jones, y prif weithredwr, wedi datgan yn ysgrifenedig nad yw’r cyfleuster arfaethedig yn hanfodol neu’n bwysig o gwbl er mwyn datblygu chwaraeon. Sut y gall hynny fod pan fo’r cynnig heddiw yn pwysleisio’r angen i annog mwy o fenywod a merched i gymryd rhan mewn chwaraeon a gweithgaredd corfforol?

The Sports Council for Wales’s Sports Update No. 50, ‘Adult Sports Participation and Club Membership in Wales 2000/01’, to which Val referred, states that the Valleys region is the worst for participation. Neath Port Talbot is coded as part of the Valleys. The update continues:

Mae rhifyn 50 o Diweddariad Chwaraeon Cyngor Chwaraeon Cymru, ‘Cyfranogiad Oedolion Cymru mewn Chwaraeon a’u Haelodaeth o Glybiau Chwaraeon 2000/01’, y cyfeiriodd Val ato, yn dweud mai rhanbarth y Cymoedd yw’r gwaethaf o ran cyfranogiad. Mae Castell-nedd Port Talbot wedi’i ddynodi’n rhan o’r Cymoedd. Dywed y cylchlythyr wedyn:

‘the Valleys offers the greatest scope for improved levels of participation, not only in terms of the development of more structured sports but also in the promotion of a more active lifestyle’.

‘yn y Cymoedd y ceir y sgôp mwyaf ar gyfer gwell lefelau cymryd rhan, nid yn unig yn nhermau datblygu chwaraeon mwy strwythuredig ond hefyd drwy hybu o fyw mwy egnïol’.

The report aims to increase participation levels and states:

Nod yr adroddiad yw codi’r lefelau cyfranogiad a dywed:

‘there must be…prioritised investment and development among sections of the…population who record lower than average participation levels, namely, women and those who live in areas of social deprivation.’

‘mae’n rhaid wrth fuddsoddiadau blaenoriaeth ... a datblygu’r adrannau o’r boblogaeth sy’n dangos lefelau is na’r cyfartaledd o gymryd rhan, sef merched a’r rhai sy’n byw mewn ardaloedd o gyni cymdeithasol’.

It also states that future developments must emphasise health promotion and the benefit to the community. The Llandarcy development would achieve all of this.

Dywed hefyd fod rhaid cael pwyslais ar hybu iechyd a budd cymunedol mewn datblygiadau yn y dyfodol. Byddai’r datblygiad yn Llandarsi yn cyflawni hynny i gyd.

Of the project’s total capital cost of £2.3 million, excluding land costs, Neath Port Talbot College has already committed an investment of £200,000, plus £150,000 to finance an annual revenue stream. Neath Port Talbot County Borough Council has provided £100,000 and £1.3 million has come from the private sector. The Sports Council for Wales needs only provide match-funding of £100,000 annually for seven years. This level of external funding to a project being considered by the sports council is unheard of. Llandarcy Park Ltd has already invested £750,000 by way of a new pavilion, restaurant facilities, conference facilities, changing rooms, floodlights, all-weather-surface training facilities, and a 250-seater stand. This means that an indoor sports facility on this site could serve national, regional and local needs. It would enjoy ease of access from the M4. It is supported by the Welsh Rugby Union, Swansea Rugby Football Club, Swansea City Association Football Club, Neath Rugby Football Club, the Football Association and others. A hotel and restaurant will open in January 2003. Neath Port Talbot College’s involvement will ensure that the participation of women and girls is prioritised in accordance with the college’s policies. I therefore ask you, Minister, to call a meeting with the Sports Council for Wales to discuss this serious and important matter.

O gyfanswm cost cyfalaf y prosiect o £2.3 miliwn, heb gynnwys cost tir, mae Coleg Castell-nedd Port Talbot eisoes wedi ymrwymo i roi buddsoddiad o £200,000, ynghyd â £150,000 i gyllido llif refeniw blynyddol. Mae Cyngor Bwrdeistref Sirol Castell-nedd Port Talbot wedi darparu £100,000 a chafwyd £1.3 miliwn oddi wrth y sector preifat. Y cwbl y mae’n rhaid i Gyngor Chwaraeon Cymru ei wneud yw darparu cyllid cyfatebol o £100,000 y flwyddyn am saith mlynedd. Ni chlywyd erioed am y fath lefel o gyllid allanol ar gyfer prosiect sy’n cael ei ystyried gan y cyngor chwaraeon. Mae Llandarcy Park Cyf eisoes wedi buddsoddi £750,000 ar ffurf pafiliwn newydd, cyfleusterau bwyty, cyfleusterau cynadledda, ystafelloedd newid, llifoleuadau, cyfleusterau hyfforddi ar arwyneb pob tywydd, a stand sydd â 250 o seddau. Golyga hynny y gallai cyfleuster chwaraeon dan do ar y safle hwn fodloni anghenion cenedlaethol, rhanbarthol a lleol. Byddai’n hawdd ei gyrraedd o’r M4. Fe’i cefnogir gan Undeb Rygbi Cymru, Clwb Rygbi Abertawe, Clwb Pêl-droed Dinas Abertawe, Clwb Rygbi Castell-nedd, y Gymdeithas Bêl-droed ac eraill. Bydd gwesty a bwyty’n agor yn Ionawr 2003. Bydd gwaith Coleg Castell-nedd Port Talbot yn y prosiect yn sicrhau y rhoddir blaenoriaeth i gyfranogiad menywod a merched yn unol â pholisïau’r coleg. Felly, gofynnaf i chi, Weinidog, alw cyfarfod â Chyngor Chwaraeon Cymru i drafod y mater difrifol a phwysig hwn.

Eleanor Burnham spoken in English p. 62

Eleanor Burnham siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 62

I support increased participation in sport, including women’s participation. Unlike Val Lloyd, I relished hockey, and played a little at school, including mixed hockey, which was fairly difficult. The rise in obesity is well documented, as is the fact that we all take less exercise than 10 or 20 years ago. Regular exercise maintains our health and wellbeing, and research has focused on its importance in helping to regulate and improve dyslexia in children. Moreover, participation in sport can develop personal skills such as teamwork and commitment—attributes that many employers find lacking in young people entering work.

Yr wyf o blaid mwy o gymryd rhan mewn chwaraeon, gan gynnwys cymryd rhan gan fenywod. Yn wahanol i Val Lloyd, arferwn fwynhau hoci, a byddwn yn chwarae ychydig ohono yn yr ysgol, gan gynnwys hoci cymysg, a oedd yn eithaf anodd. Mae cryn dystiolaeth i’r cynnydd mewn gordewdra, a’r ffaith ein bod yn ymarfer yn llai nag y gwnaem 10 neu 20 mlynedd yn ôl. Mae ymarfer rheolaidd yn cynnal ein hiechyd a’n lles, ac mae ymchwil wedi dangos mor bwysig ydyw wrth helpu i reoleiddio a gwella dyslecsia mewn plant. At hynny, mae cymryd rhan mewn chwaraeon yn gallu datblygu sgiliau personol fel gwaith tîm ac ymroddiad—rhinweddau y mae llawer o gyflogwyr yn eu cael yn brin ymysg pobl ifanc sy’n dechrau gweithio.

Participation in physical activity and sports must be nurtured at an early age and sold to teenagers in a positive and cool way. As a former teacher of underachieving teenagers, I am aware that this often includes little motivation to participate in any physical activity, particularly sport. As a former JP, I also understand how important it is to counter boredom, positively occupy the time of youngsters and give them an outlet for their energies.

Rhaid meithrin cyfranogiad mewn gweithgaredd corfforol a chwaraeon yn ifanc a’i gyflwyno i rai yn eu harddegau mewn modd cŵl a chadarnhaol. Fel un a fu’n athrawes ar dangyflawnwyr yn eu harddegau, gwn mai ychydig o gymhelliant sydd ganddynt yn aml i gymryd rhan mewn unrhyw weithgaredd corfforol, yn enwedig chwaraeon. Fel cyn ynad heddwch, yr wyf hefyd yn deall mor bwysig ydyw i ymladd diflastod, i wneud defnydd cadarnhaol o amser pobl ifanc ac i gynnig modd iddynt ryddhau eu hegni.

It is a sad fact that participation levels in lower social classes often lag behind. Improving sports participation can help increase people’s involvement in their local community and improve social inclusion generally. However, we should not only provide free access to sporting facilities for those under 16 and students in further and higher education when finances allow—we should also make it a positive and comprehensive community investment for the benefit of everyone in Wales.

Yn anffodus, yn aml ceir lefelau cyfranogiad is yn y dosbarthiadau cymdeithasol is. Mae hybu cyfranogiad mewn chwaraeon yn gallu helpu pobl i gymryd mwy o ran yn eu cymuned leol a gwella cynhwysiant cymdeithasol yn gyffredinol. Fodd bynnag, dylem wneud mwy na darparu mynediad am ddim i gyfleusterau chwaraeon ar gyfer rhai dan 16 oed a myfyrwyr mewn addysg bellach ac uwch pan fydd cyllid yn caniatáu—dylem wneud hynny yn fuddsoddiad cadarnhaol a chynhwysfawr yn y gymuned er budd pawb yng Nghymru.

Christine Chapman spoken in English p. 63

Christine Chapman siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 63

I welcome this debate and the approach that the Welsh Assembly Government and the Sports Council for Wales have taken in seeking to redress the inequalities that exist between men and women in sport. To get more girls and women actively involved in sport is vital if we want to promote healthier lifestyles and improved confidence among more of the Welsh population, and in doing so, begin to break the cycle of poor health and low aspirations that are all too common. We know that sport can increase self-esteem and confidence, the benefits of which are clear. Significantly, in Holland, it has been shown that getting girls involved in team sports can help reduce rates of early teenage pregnancy. This would benefit Wales’s future generations. The present situation is worrying, with many studies showing how much less physical activity is done by women than men. Although the gap in some areas of the country is narrowing, in other, poorer areas, the gap remains wide.

Croesawaf y ddadl hon ac ymagwedd Llywodraeth Cynulliad Cymru a Chyngor Chwaraeon Cymru at geisio cywiro’r anghydraddoldeb rhwng dynion a menywod mewn chwaraeon. Mae denu mwy o ferched a menywod i gymryd rhan weithredol mewn chwaraeon yn hanfodol os ydym am hybu ffyrdd o fyw iachach a meithrin hyder ymysg mwy o bobl Cymru, ac wrth wneud hynny, ddechrau torri ar y cylch o iechyd gwael a dyheadau isel sy’n rhy gyffredin o lawer. Gwyddom fod chwaraeon yn gallu hybu hunan-barch a hyder, ac mae manteision amlwg yn hynny. Mae’n werth nodi bod astudiaeth yn yr Iseldiroedd wedi dangos bod denu merched i gymryd rhan mewn chwaraeon tîm yn gallu gostwng cyfraddau beichiogrwydd ymysg rhai yn eu harddegau cynnar. Byddai hynny er budd cenedlaethau’r dyfodol yng Nghymru. Mae’r sefyllfa bresennol yn peri pryder, gan fod llawer o astudiaethau’n dangos bod menywod yn ymgymryd â llai o weithgaredd corfforol na dynion. Er bod y bwlch yn cau mewn rhai rhannau o’r wlad, mewn ardaloedd eraill, tlotach, mae’r bwlch yn un mawr o hyd.

I also welcome the fact that the Sports Council for Wales is working to raise the profile of women’s sport in the media, but more needs to be done. In the sports supplement of yesterday’s The Western Mail, 72 of the 74 articles were about men in sport. With the exception of the advertisement for ladies’ day at Royal Ascot, there were only two articles about women. I invite you to read that supplement. It says it all does it not?

Yr wyf hefyd yn croesawu’r ffaith bod Cyngor Chwaraeon Cymru’n ymdrechu i gael mwy o sylw i chwaraeon menywod yn y cyfryngau, ond rhaid gwneud rhagor. Yn atodiad chwaraeon The Western Mail ddoe, yr oedd 72 o’r 74 erthygl yn ymwneud â dynion mewn chwaraeon. Heblaw am yr hysbyseb ar gyfer diwrnod y gwragedd yn Royal Ascot, nid oedd ond dwy erthygl am fenywod. Fe’ch gwahoddaf i ddarllen yr atodiad hwnnw. Mae’n dweud y cyfan, onid yw?

I congratulate the Women’s Welsh Rugby Union for securing the biggest sponsorship deal for women’s sports in Wales—£100,000 over three years from the Sports Council for Wales and PHS Group plc. I also welcome initiatives such as Girls First. However, improving participation in sports needs to be mainstreamed, not added on, and requires serious funding.

Llongyfarchaf Undeb Rygbi Menywod Cymru ar sicrhau’r cytundeb nawdd mwyaf ar gyfer chwaraeon menywod yng Nghymru—£100,000 dros dair blynedd oddi wrth Gyngor Chwaraeon Cymru a PHS Group ccc. Yr wyf hefyd yn croesawu mentrau fel Genethod yn Gyntaf. Er hynny, rhaid rhoi lle yn y brif ffrwd i hybu cyfranogiad mewn chwaraeon, ac nid ei wneud yn beth ychwanegol, ac mae hynny’n gofyn cyllid sylweddol.

Let us be ambitious about what we want to achieve. We must develop diverse ways of encouraging women into sports, as they may not be attracted to it in the same way as men. We should also consider providing more taster sessions for women and development officers for women should have a stronger role. The crucial time to encourage women is when they abandon sport after leaving school. We know that increased domestic responsibilities for women mean that their leisure activities trail off and we should also recognise that, although we aspire to equality, even recent research suggests that women work longer hours in paid or unpaid work, and still have the burden of the double shift. That means that they have less leisure time for sport.

Gadewch inni fod yn uchelgeisiol ynghylch yr hyn yr ydym am ei gyflawni. Rhaid inni ddatblygu gwahanol ddulliau o ddenu menywod i chwaraeon, gan ei bod yn bosibl nad ydynt yn cael eu denu yn yr un modd â dynion. Dylem hefyd ystyried darparu mwy o sesiynau cynnig blas ar gyfer menywod a dylid rhoi rôl gryfach i swyddogion datblygu ar gyfer menywod. Y cyfnod hollbwysig i annog menywod yw pan fyddant yn rhoi’r gorau i chwaraeon ar ôl gadael yr ysgol. Gwyddom fod cynnydd yng nghyfrifoldebau domestig menywod yn golygu bod eu gweithgareddau hamdden yn lleihau a dylem gydnabod hefyd, er ein bod yn dyheu am gydraddoldeb, fod ymchwil ddiweddar hyd yn oed yn awgrymu bod menywod yn gweithio mwy o oriau mewn gwaith â thâl neu heb dâl, a’u bod yn dal i ddwyn baich y stem ddwbl. Golyga hynny fod ganddynt lai o amser hamdden ar gyfer chwaraeon.

Finally, we must encourage women’s groups to apply for available funding. There should be an emphasis on outreach work, not just pitches. I welcome the progress so far, but we must recognise that there is still some way to go. We should not underestimate the value of participation, as this is the basis for a creative and robust society. If Wales is to prosper as a dynamic nation, all of its people, not just half of them, must be involved.

Yn olaf, rhaid inni annog grwpiau menywod i ymgeisio am y cyllid sydd ar gael. Dylid rhoi pwyslais ar waith estynnol, nid meysydd chwarae’n unig. Croesawaf y cynnydd a wnaed hyd yma, ond rhaid inni gydnabod bod cryn ffordd o’n blaen eto. Ni ddylem fychanu gwerth cymryd rhan, gan mai hynny yw sylfaen cymdeithas greadigol a chadarn. Os yw Cymru i ffynnu fel cenedl ddeinamig, rhaid i’w holl bobl gymryd rhan, ac nid eu hanner yn unig.

John Griffiths spoken in English p. 65

John Griffiths siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 65

I welcome this debate and the commitment that Assembly Members show to increasing participation in sport. It is incumbent upon all of us as elected representatives to make efforts to increase participation because of the obvious benefits. It is also incumbent upon us to set a personal example. In that regard, I thank Assembly Members who have partaken in Assembly sporting enterprises, of which there have been many, although this is not as widely known as it might be. It has been enjoyable—I had the enjoyable experience of hitting Mick Bates with a bouncer during a cricket match. Unfortunately, Peter Law is not here to hear that. However, I would say in my defence that it happened before the partnership Government was established. I would not dream of doing it now. In relation to this debate, the last football match that we played against Westminster was interesting, because women players turned out for Westminster but, unfortunately, we did not have any female Assembly Members on our side. Although, to be fair—before Eleanor interrupts me—some women did want to play but they were unable to, for various reasons.

Croesawaf y ddadl hon a’r ymrwymiad y mae Aelodau’r Cynulliad yn ei amlygu i gynyddu’r cyfranogiad mewn chwaraeon. Mae dyletswydd ar bob un ohonom fel cynrychiolwyr etholedig i ymdrechu i beri i fwy gymryd rhan oherwydd y manteision amlwg. Mae hefyd yn ddyletswydd arnom osod esiampl bersonol. Yn hynny o beth, diolchaf i’r Aelodau o’r Cynulliad a gymerodd ran ym mentrau chwaraeon y Cynulliad, y bu llawer ohonynt, er nad yw hynny mor hysbys ag y gallai fod. Bu’n bleserus—cefais y pleser o daro Mick Bates â phêl ar adlam yn ystod gêm criced. Yn anffodus, nid yw Peter Law yma i glywed hynny. Fodd bynnag, hoffwn ddweud o’m plaid fod hynny wedi digwydd cyn sefydlu’r Llywodraeth bartneriaeth. Ni freuddwydiwn am wneud hynny’n awr. Mewn cysylltiad â’r ddadl hon, yr oedd y gêm bel-droed ddiwethaf rhyngom ni a San Steffan yn un ddiddorol, gan fod menywod wedi chwarae dros San Steffan ond, gwaetha’r modd, nid oedd gennym unrhyw fenywod sy’n Aelodau o’r Cynulliad ar ein hochr ni. Er hynny, a bod yn deg—cyn i Eleanor dorri ar fy nhraws—yr oedd rhai menywod am chwarae ond yn methu â gwneud hynny, am wahanol resymau.

Lorraine Barrett spoken in English p. 65

Lorraine Barrett siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 65

I remind you, John Griffiths, that when we participated in the Barnardo’s tug-of-war team more women were present than men, and I was one of them.

Yr wyf yn eich atgoffa, John Griffiths, fod mwy o fenywod nag o ddynion yn rhan o dîm tynnu rhaff Barnardos, ac yr oeddwn i’n un ohonynt.

John Griffiths spoken in English p. 65

John Griffiths siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 65

I accept that, Lorraine. Unfortunately, I missed out on that occasion. However, I hope that, as we set an example as Assembly Members, we can ensure mixed participation in future activities. There are football matches planned against the other devolved institutions, as well as Westminster. Rugby fixtures and other events are also a possibility.

Yr wyf yn derbyn hynny, Lorraine. Yn anffodus, collais gyfle y tro hwnnw. Er hynny, yr wyf yn gobeithio, wrth inni osod esiampl fel Aelodau Cynulliad, y gallwn sicrhau cyfranogiad cymysg mewn gweithgareddau yn y dyfodol. Bwriedir cynnal gemau pêl-droed gyda’r sefydliadau datganoledig eraill, yn ogystal â San Steffan. Mae’n bosibl y cynhelir gemau rygbi a digwyddiadau eraill hefyd.

Sport can bring a range of benefits to Wales, not least of which is advancing our social inclusion agenda. In considering community regeneration, we should take into account the cross-cutting nature of sport and its possible health, employment, economic and education benefits. I have mentioned Hartridge Comprehensive School in my constituency many times. It is a great example of how sport can aid the social inclusion agenda. Great efforts are being made to involve female pupils to a greater extent than previously, with some imaginative proposals put forward—I hope that they come to fruition. In conclusion, sport can help the Assembly achieve many of its aims and objectives and I hope that we ensure that it does so.

Gall chwaraeon ddod ag amryw o fuddion i Gymru, ac un o’r rhai mwyaf yw hyrwyddo ein hagenda cynhwysiant cymdeithasol. Wrth ystyried adfywio cymunedol, dylem ystyried natur drawsbynciol chwaraeon a’r buddion sy’n gallu deillio ohonynt o ran iechyd, cyflogaeth, yr economi ac addysg. Yr wyf wedi sôn am ysgol gyfun Hartridge yn fy etholaeth i lawer gwaith. Mae’n enghraifft wych o’r modd y gall chwaraeon fod o gymorth i’r agenda cynhwysiant cymdeithasol. Gwneir ymdrech fawr i gynnwys disgyblion benywaidd i fwy o raddau nag o’r blaen, ac mae rhai cynigion llawn dychymyg wedi’u cyflwyno—gobeithiaf y byddant yn dwyn ffrwyth. I derfynu, gall chwaraeon helpu’r Cynulliad i gyflawni llawer o’i nodau a’i amcanion a gobeithiaf y byddwn yn sicrhau eu bod yn gwneud hynny.

Cynog Dafis siaradwyd yn Gymraeg t. 66

Cynog Dafis spoken in Welsh p. 66

I ddechrau, teimlaf empathi cryf gyda Val Lloyd. Pan orfodwyd rygbi ar ysgolion y Gorllewin yn y 1950au—gweithred hollol waradwyddus—ac yr oedd yn rhaid chwarae rygbi yn lle pêl-droed, fy arfer i oedd sefyll mor agos i’r asgell ag oedd yn bosibl, a phan oedd helbul ar ddod byddwn yn neidio dros y llinell allan o’r ffordd. ‘Iach yw cachgi drannoeth’ yw’r hen ddywediad Cymraeg, a dyna yr wyf yn ei gredu.

First of all, I feel a strong empathy with Val Lloyd. When rugby was forced on west Wales schools in the 1950s—a disgraceful act—and rugby had to be played instead of soccer, I used to stand as close to the touch-line as possible, and when trouble came close I would jump over the line and out of the way. There is a Welsh saying, ‘A coward will live to see another day’, and I consider that to be true.

Serch hynny, cefnogaf bwynt 4 y cynnig, a gwelliant 3 yn enw Jocelyn Davies. Yr wyf yn ddyledus am gynnwys fy araith i ddwy fenyw yn cynrychioli cymdeithas Hoci Cymru a Chymdeithas Pêl-Rwyd Cymru—Mrs Holvey a Miss Austin. Cefais gyfarfod defnyddiol â hwy yr wythnos diwethaf. Yr ydym wedi clywed am y bwlch cyfranogiad rhwng menywod a gwrywod ac mae angen inni—maddeuwch y gair mwys—greu maes chwarae mwy gwastad rhwng y chwaraeon y mae gwrywod a menywod, at ei gilydd, yn ymgymryd â hwy. Ni chredaf y gallwch ddatrys y broblem drwy hyrwyddo rygbi a phêl-droed menywod yn unig—mae gwell ffyrdd o’i wneud na hynny.

Despite that, I support point 4 of the motion and amendment 3 in the name of Jocelyn Davies. I am indebted to two representatives from the Wales Hockey association and the Welsh Netball Association—Mrs Holvey and Miss Austin for the content of my speech. I had a useful meeting with them last week. We have heard about the gulf in participation between men and women and we need—if you will pardon the pun—to create a more level playing field between the sports in which men and women usually participate. I do not believe that you can solve the problem by promoting women’s rugby and soccer alone—there are better ways of doing it.

Gemau proffesiynol yw rygbi a phêl-droed, ac maent yn meddu ar adnoddau sylweddol; felly mae ganddynt rwydweithiau hyfforddi helaeth a chronfeydd i helpu datblygiad clybiau. Ar y llaw arall, gweithgareddau amatur yw hoci, pêl-rwyd, athletau a gymnasteg, a’r rhain sydd fwyaf poblogaidd ymhlith menywod. Mae eu hadnoddau a’u rhwydweithiau hyfforddi yn brin. Enghraifft dda o weithredu cadarnhaol o blaid menywod fyddai cynnig cyllid cyhoeddus i gyrff llywodraethu’r chwaraeon hynny i’w cryfhau er mwyn cynyddu cyfranogiad menywod. Dyna fyddai maes chwarae gwastad. Clywsom am rôl y cyfryngau eisoes a gall helpu drwy gyflwyno chwaraeon menywod mewn modd mwy cyffrous nag a wneir ar hyn o bryd. Gadewch inni gofio i Gymru faeddu’r Alban ddwywaith bythefnos yn ôl mewn pêl-rwyd. Pwy glywodd am hynny? Gwelais gipolwg arno ar y teledu, a chlywais am y buddugoliaethau gan y ddwy fenyw a fu yn fy hyfforddi, fel petai.

Rugby and soccer are professional sports and have substantial resources; therefore they have extensive coaching networks and funds to help in club development. On the other hand, hockey, netball, athletics and gymnastics are amateur activities, and these are most popular among women. Their resources and coaching networks are in short supply. A good example of positive action in favour of women would be to offer public funding to the governing bodies of those sports to strengthen them and to increase women’s participation. That would provide a level playing field. We have already heard about the role of the media and it could help by presenting women’s sports in a more exciting way than at present. Let us bear in mind that Wales beat Scotland twice at netball a fortnight ago. Who heard about that? I caught a glimpse of it on the television, and heard about those victories from the two women who coached me, as it were.

Mae cyhoeddiad gan Gyngor Chwaraeon Cymru yn dangos bod cymryd rhan mewn chwaraeon ar ei isaf yn yr ardaloedd tlotaf a lleiaf breintiedig, lle y mae problemau iechyd ar eu gwaethaf. Mae angen ymyrraeth gadarnhaol yma hefyd.

A Sports Council for Wales publication reveals that participation in sports is at its lowest in the poorest and least privileged areas, where health problems are at their worst. Positive intervention is also required here.

Awgrymwyd i mi y dylid ystyried darparu mynediad am ddim i ganolfannau hamdden—clywsom yr awgrym honno’n gyffredinol—a hynny dim ond ar adegau o’r dydd pan y mae’r galw yn isel, rhwng 4 p.m. a 6 p.m. efallai. I raddau helaeth, y mae’r cyfleusterau’n segur yn ystod yr oriau hynny, a chan fod y galw yn isel yn ystod y cyfnodau hynny, y mae’n bosibl na fyddai’r gost o roi mynediad am ddim yn fawr. Pe baem yn penderfynu bod y gost o wneud hynny ar draws Cymru yn ormodol, beth am gynnig y consesiwn mewn rhai ardaloedd—ardaloedd Cymunedau yn Gyntaf, dyweder? Dylai’r ardaloedd hynny gael eu dynodi’n barthau gweithredu ar iechyd beth bynnag. Dyna un ffordd o gryfhau gweithgarwch yn yr ardaloedd hynny a hwyluso byw yn iach.

It was suggested to me that we should consider providing free entry to leisure centres—we have heard that suggestion generally—at times of the day when demand is low, for example between 4 p.m. and 6 p.m.. Facilities, to a great extent, are idle during those times and, as demand is low, it is likely that the cost of providing free access would not be too great. If we were to decide that the cost of doing so across Wales was excessive, what about offering the concession in some areas—such as Communities First areas? Those areas ought to be denoted health action zones in any case. That would be one way of strengthening activity in those areas and promoting healthy living.

O ran cynyddu cyfranogiad plant ysgol, yr oedd y plant y cyfarfûm innau â hwy yn cymeradwyo Cyngor Bwrdeistref Sirol Rhondda Cynon Taf—ac nid Pauline Jarman sydd wedi gofyn imi ddweud hynny y prynhawn yma—am ddatblygu rhaglen beilot sy’n cyfuno elfennau gwahanol o fewn clystyrau o ysgolion cynradd ac uwchradd. Y mae’r cydlynydd, Campau’r Ddraig—ac y mae pawb yn canmol y fenter honno—yn gweithio gyda rhai rhwng saith ac 11 oed. Y mae’r ymgynghorydd addysg gorfforol yn chwarae rhan amlwg yn y rhaglen, ac nid oes llawer o ymgynghorwyr addysg gorfforol yng Nghymru gan fod y gwasanaeth ymgynghori i ysgolion wedi edwino.

In terms of increasing participation among school children, the children whom I met commended Rhondda Cynon Taf County Borough Council—and Pauline Jarman has not asked me to say that this afternoon—on developing a pilot scheme that combines different elements within clusters of primary and secondary schools. The co-ordinator, Dragon Sport—and everyone praises that initiative—is working with those aged between seven and 11. The physical education adviser plays a prominent part in the programme, and there are not many physical education advisers in Wales, because the advisory service to schools has waned.

Mae cymdeithasau llywodraethu’r chwaraeon yn rhoi hyfforddiant dyfarnu i’r plant hŷn, sydd wedyn yn helpu i redeg chwaraeon gyda disgyblion iau o dan oruchwyliaeth athro. Mae hynny’n lleihau’r baich ar yr athro, ond hefyd yn sicrhau goruchwyliaeth ddigonol. Daw ysgolion cynradd hefyd at ei gilydd ar faes chwarae’r ysgol uwchradd i gystadlu â’i gilydd. Golyga hynny gydweithio rhwng ysgolion cynradd ac uwchradd fel clwstwr, sef y math o gydweithio y dylem ei hyrwyddo yn gyffredinol.

Sports’ governing bodies provide referee training for the older children who, in turn, help to run sports for younger children, under the supervision of a teacher. That reduces the burden on the teacher, but also ensures adequate supervision. Primary schools are also brought together on the playing fields of the secondary school, to compete with each other. That leads to co-operation between primary and secondary schools as a cluster, which is the kind of joint working that we should promote generally.

Pan fydd chwaraeon yn eu priod le, yn elfen allweddol yn y gwaith o greu cymdeithas iach, byddwn yn rhoi sylw, parch ac adnoddau haeddiannol iddynt.

When sports are in their proper place, as a key element in the work of creating a healthy society, we will be giving them the attention, the respect and the resources that they deserve.

Brian Hancock spoken in English p. 68

Brian Hancock siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 68

I register an interest as the chair of an athletics club that is over 106 years old—not that I have been there that long, only 14 years.

Datganaf fuddiant fel cadeirydd clwb athletau sy’n fwy na 106 mlwydd oed—er na fûm yno cyn hwyed â hynny, dim ond 14 mlynedd.

Rhodri Morgan The First Minister spoken in English p. 68

Rhodri Morgan Y Prif Weinidog siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 68

You could have fooled us.

Byddech wedi ein twyllo ni.

Brian Hancock spoken in English p. 68

Brian Hancock siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 68

It is called athletics; it keeps you fit and healthy. Over the past 13 or so years since I have been chair, women have been the most successful members of Newport Harriers Athletic Club. They are keen, well trained and successful; they are in division 2 of the UK athletics league side. The men, however, all got old, like me, and we cannot run as fast as we used to.

Athletau yw’r enw arnynt; maent yn eich cadw’n iach ac yn heini. Dros y 13 mlynedd diwethaf, fwy neu lai, ers imi fod yn gadeirydd, menywod yw aelodau mwyaf llwyddiannus clwb athletau Newport Harriers. Maent yn frwdfrydig, yn dra hyfforddedig ac yn llwyddiannus; maent yn adran 2 o gynghrair athletau’r DU. Fodd bynnag, mae’r dynion i gyd wedi heneiddio, fel minnau, ac ni allwn redeg cyn gyflymed ag yr arferem.

Women, and particularly young girls, need sport. They need to exercise during their pubescent and teenage years because, if they do not, their bone density will not increase and, in later years, they could suffer from osteoporosis. It is a serious illness, which usually appears in middle age, but is now appearing in women in their late 20s. What is needed to prevent osteoporosis is exercise and, in some cases, drinking full-fat milk—and Welsh full-fat milk, I might add—during pre-teenage years.

Mae ar fenywod, a merched ifanc yn enwedig, angen chwaraeon. Mae arnynt angen ymarfer yn ystod eu glasoed a’u harddegau oherwydd, os na wnânt hynny, ni fydd eu hesgyrn yn mynd yn ddwysach ac, ymhen blynyddoedd, gallent ddioddef gan osteoporosis. Mae’n salwch difrifol, sy’n ymddangos fel arfer yn y canol oed, ond sydd bellach yn dod i’r golwg mewn menywod yn eu hugeiniau hwyr. Yr hyn sydd ei angen i atal osteoporosis yw ymarfer ac, mewn rhai achosion, yfed llaeth cyflawn—a llaeth cyflawn o Gymru, gallwn ychwanegu—yn ystod y blynyddoedd cyn yr arddegau.

Athletics clubs are run by volunteers and, as chair, I have great difficulty in providing facilities for coaches, to enable them to visit schools to develop skills and pass on their expertise. I want the Minister to consider a scheme whereby coaches could perhaps be paid—as coaching is often unpaid—to visit and work with schools to develop their sport, whether that be athletics as in my case, or any other sport. If we could develop that coaching element, it would improve facilities for everybody, particularly our young people.

Caiff clybiau athletau eu rhedeg gan wirfoddolwyr ac, fel cadeirydd, yr wyf yn ei chael yn anodd iawn darparu cyfleusterau ar gyfer hyfforddwyr, i’w galluogi i ymweld ag ysgolion i ddatblygu sgiliau a throsglwyddo eu harbenigedd. Yr wyf am i’r Gweinidog ystyried cynllun a fyddai’n caniatáu talu hyfforddwyr—gan na thelir am hyfforddi mewn llawer achos—i ymweld ag ysgolion, ac i weithio gyda hwy, i ddatblygu eu chwaraeon, boed hynny’n athletau fel yn fy achos i, neu unrhyw gamp arall. Os gallem ddatblygu’r elfen hyfforddi honno, byddai’n gwella’r cyfleusterau i bawb, yn enwedig ein pobl ifanc.

Facilities such as sports halls and swimming pools are important. However, young children and teenagers enjoy skateboarding and we should develop skateboard parks, as skateboarding is another form of exercise. We should also develop resources in parks. Swings and slides are provided for young children, but there are no exercise facilities for teenagers. We should also consider what canals could do—towpaths could be useful for exercise.

Mae cyfleusterau fel neuaddau chwaraeon a phyllau nofio’n bwysig. Fodd bynnag, mae plant ifanc a rhai yn eu harddegau’n mwynhau sgrialu a dylem ddatblygu parciau sgrialu, gan fod sgrialu’n fath o ymarfer. Dylem hefyd ddatblygu adnoddau mewn parciau. Darperir siglenni a sglefrau ar gyfer plant ifanc, ond nid oes cyfleusterau ymarfer ar gyfer rhai yn eu harddegau. Dylem hefyd ystyried yr hyn y gellid ei wneud â chamlesi—gallai llwybrau halio fod yn ddefnyddiol i ymarfer.

Owen John Thomas spoken in English p. 69

Owen John Thomas siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 69

Tug of war on the towpath.

Tynnu rhaff ar y llwybr halio.

Brian Hancock spoken in English p. 69

Brian Hancock siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 69

That is exactly right. I like the idea of health action zones. Education through sport is extremely important as it gives our young people pride, confidence and self-esteem and opportunities to contribute. As a young man watching athletes train one day, Linford Christie commented that they were rubbish. The coach said, ‘Come on, then, if you can do better, get over here’. To this day, Linford Christie says that that is what prevented him from becoming no-good and involved in crime. Therefore, sport is important in terms of pride, confidence and opportunities to contribute.

Yn union. Yr wyf yn hoffi’r syniad o barthau gweithredu ar iechyd. Mae addysg drwy chwaraeon yn hynod bwysig gan ei bod yn rhoi balchder, hyder a hunan-barch i’n pobl ifanc, a chyfleoedd i gyfrannu. Ac yntau’n ddyn ifanc yn gwylio athletwyr yn hyfforddi un diwrnod, dywedodd Linford Christie nad oeddent yn dda i ddim. ‘Tyrd yn dy flaen, felly,’ meddai’r hyfforddwr, ‘os gelli di wneud yn well, tyrd yma’. Hyd heddiw, dywed Linford Christie mai hynny a’i rhwystrodd rhag mynd ar gyfeiliorn a dechrau troseddu. Felly mae chwaraeon yn bwysig o ran balchder, hyder a chyfleoedd i gyfrannu.

Jenny Randerson The Minister for Culture, Sport and the Welsh Language spoken in English p. 69

Jenny Randerson Y Gweinidog dros Ddiwylliant, Chwaraeon a’r Gymraeg siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 69

This has been an excellent debate. I challenge Glyn’s view that you must have disagreement in order to have a good debate. We have shown today that people can propose good, positive ideas and describe negative experiences to good effect without disagreement. The importance of sport in providing motivation has been mentioned. There is a misunderstanding between Glyn and me about the Welsh Institute of Sport: it is about more than just the building. However, I agree with Glyn about the state of the building.

Bu hon yn ddadl ragorol. Heriaf safbwynt Glyn bod rhaid ichi gael anghytuno er mwyn cael dadl dda. Yr ydym wedi dangos heddiw y gall pobl gynnig syniadau da, cadarnhaol a disgrifio profiadau negyddol i berwyl da heb anghytuno. Cyfeiriwyd at bwysigrwydd chwaraeon wrth ddarparu cymhelliant. Mae camddealltwriaeth rhwng Glyn a minnau ynghylch Athrofa Chwaraeon Cymru: mae’n ymwneud â mwy na’r adeilad yn unig. Fodd bynnag, cytunaf â Glyn ynghylch cyflwr yr adeilad.

The World Health Organisation has reported on the lack of political will to deal with the issues that we have discussed today. I am determined that there will not be a lack of political will in the Welsh Assembly Government. That has been reflected today in the Chamber.

Mae Sefydliad Iechyd y Byd wedi adrodd ar y diffyg ewyllys gwleidyddol i fynd i’r afael â’r materion yr ydym wedi’u trafod heddiw. Yr wyf yn benderfynol na fydd diffyg ewyllys gwleidyddol yn Llywodraeth Cynulliad Cymru. Adlewyrchwyd hynny yn y Siambr heddiw.

Owen spoke of the importance of providing good changing rooms. New opportunities fund money is being used to develop basic facilities such as changing rooms. Owen also mentioned development work in primary schools. Dragon Sport is a success story in this context, as it has achieved equal participation by girls and boys in sport at primary school level. The challenge now is to take that through to secondary schools. It is also changing the culture among parents and volunteers, and is getting more people to volunteer. We can learn much from New Zealand in terms of increasing the number of volunteers.

Soniodd Owen am bwysigrwydd darparu ystafelloedd newid da. Defnyddir arian o’r gronfa cyfleoedd newydd i ddatblygu cyfleusterau sylfaenol fel ystafelloedd newid. Cyfeiriodd Owen at waith datblygu mewn ysgolion cynradd hefyd. Mae Campau’r Ddraig yn llwyddo yn y cyd-destun hwn, gan ei fod wedi sicrhau cyfranogiad cyfartal ymysg merched a bechgyn mewn chwaraeon mewn ysgolion cynradd. Yr her yn awr yw parhau â hynny mewn ysgolion uwchradd. Mae hefyd yn newid y diwylliant ymysg rhieni a gwirfoddolwyr, ac yn denu rhagor i wirfoddoli. Gallwn ddysgu llawer gan Seland Newydd am gynyddu’r nifer o wirfoddolwyr.

Val noted that some girls aspire to participate in traditionally male-dominated sports. That is tremendous. We must consider a variety of sports across the board. However, I recognise that other girls are put off by the competitiveness of such sports and having to play in the rain, for example. We must also cater for them.

Nododd Val fod rhai merched yn dyheu am gymryd rhan mewn chwaraeon a chwaraeir gan ddynion yn bennaf yn draddodiadol. Mae hynny’n wych. Rhaid inni ystyried amrywiaeth o chwaraeon yn gyffredinol. Fodd bynnag, cydnabyddaf fod merched eraill nad ydynt yn hoffi natur gystadleuol chwaraeon o’r fath a gorfod chwarae yn y glaw, er enghraifft. Rhaid inni ddarparu ar eu cyfer hwy hefyd.

Peter spoke of sport as a morale raiser. He also mentioned access and affordability. There are important lessons to be learnt from the success of our policy of free entrance to the National Museums and Galleries of Wales. There are practical implications to such policies. However, I assure Members that my officials are already working with the Finance Minister’s officials in considering potential schemes and the experience of similar free entry schemes elsewhere. I will also be considering a sports strategy once the Culture Committee has finished its review of sport.

Soniodd Peter am chwaraeon fel rhywbeth sy’n gwella ysbryd. Soniodd hefyd am fynediad a fforddiadwyedd. Mae gwersi pwysig i’w dysgu o lwyddiant ein polisi o fynediad am ddim i Amgueddfeydd ac Orielau Cenedlaethol Cymru. Mae goblygiadau ymarferol i bolisïau o’r fath. Er hynny, yr wyf yn sicrhau Aelodau fod fy swyddogion eisoes yn gweithio gyda swyddogion y Gweinidog Cyllid wrth ystyried cynlluniau posibl a’r profiad o gynlluniau mynediad am ddim mewn mannau eraill. Byddaf hefyd yn ystyried strategaeth chwaraeon wedi i’r Pwyllgor Diwylliant gwblhau ei adolygiad o chwaraeon.

We often hear young people say, ‘there is nothing to do around here’, and adults saying that there is nothing for young people to do. Providing young people with accessible and free recreational opportunities that motivate them could be key to solving many problems. I am considering this issue, and consulting on it, as widely as possible.

Yr ydym yn aml yn clywed pobl ifanc yn dweud, ‘nid oes dim i’w wneud yma’, ac oedolion yn dweud nad oes dim gan bobl ifanc i’w wneud. Mae darparu cyfleoedd adloniadol hygyrch a rhad ac am ddim ar gyfer pobl ifanc sy’n cynnig cymhelliad iddynt yn rhywbeth a allai fod yn allweddol i ddatrys llawer o broblemau. Yr wyf yn ystyried y mater hwn, ac yn ymgynghori arno, mor eang â phosibl.

I am aware of the issues mentioned by Gwenda in terms of Llandarcy. I assure Gwenda that I have already held the meeting that she requested. I have made it clear to the sports council that I want it to reconsider this issue. However, I want to be convinced that this project would be used as much by women and girls as by men and boys. It is not just a case of a facility being open to everyone; it must be equally relevant to both sexes.

Yr wyf yn ymwybodol o’r materion a nododd Gwenda ynghylch Llandarsi. Yr wyf yn sicrhau Gwenda fy mod eisoes wedi cynnal y cyfarfod y gofynnodd amdano. Rhoddais ar ddeall i’r cyngor chwaraeon fy mod am iddo ailystyried y mater hwn. Fodd bynnag, dymunaf gael fy argyhoeddi y byddai menywod a merched yn defnyddio’r prosiect hwn i’r un graddau â dynion a bechgyn. Nid y ffaith bod cyfleuster yn agored i bawb yw’r unig ystyriaeth; rhaid iddo fod yr un mor berthnasol i’r ddau ryw.

Christine Chapman mentioned media coverage; there are female sport development officers. There are issues in terms of the amount of sport funding for which women apply. Male sports tend to be club-dominated or building-dominated and tend to receive more money. We must ensure equity in terms of funding. We must also redress the balance in terms of media coverage. Although Christine criticised The Western Mail, I congratulate it for publishing an article on Charlotte Preen, Cardiff City Ladies Football Club’s striker, last Saturday. She is a new, up-and-coming role model. We should follow the example set in Australia, where the renowned world No. 1 squash player, Sarah Fitzgerald, beat Ian Thorpe, Lleyton Hewitt and Steve Waugh for the title of sports personality of the year. I cannot imagine that happening in Britain at the moment.

Soniodd Christine Chapman am y sylw gan y cyfryngau; mae menywod yn swyddogion datblygu chwaraeon. Mae materion yn codi o ran y maint o gyllid chwaraeon y mae menywod yn ymgeisio amdano. Mae chwaraeon dynion yn tueddu i fod yn gysylltiedig â chlwb neu adeilad ar y cyfan ac maent yn cael mwy o arian. Rhaid inni sicrhau tegwch yng nghyd-destun ariannu. Rhaid inni wneud iawn hefyd o ran y sylw gan y cyfryngau. Er bod Christine wedi beirniadu The Western Mail, yr wyf yn ei longyfarch ar gyhoeddi erthygl am Charlotte Preen, saethwr Clwb Pêl-droed Menywod Dinas Caerdydd, ddydd Sadwrn diwethaf. Mae’n rôl-fodel newydd ac addawol. Dylem ddilyn yr esiampl sydd wedi’i gosod gan Awstralia, lle y gwnaeth chwaraewr sboncen gorau’r byd, yr enwog Sarah Fitzgerald, guro Ian Thorpe, Lleyton Hewitt a Steve Waugh i ennill teitl personoliaeth chwaraeon y flwyddyn. Ni allaf ddychmygu hynny’n digwydd ym Mhrydain ar hyn o bryd.

I thank Members for their contributions to today’s debate. We must consider the sport provision that we offer for girls in the widest possible sense, and we must start them off young.

Diolchaf i Aelodau am eu cyfraniadau i’r ddadl heddiw. Rhaid inni ystyried y ddarpariaeth chwaraeon a gynigiwn i ferched yn ei hystyr ehangaf, a rhaid inni eu rhoi ar ben ffordd yn ifanc.

Gwelliant 1 Glyn Davies t. 72

Amendment 1 Glyn Davies p. 72

GwrthodwydRejected O blaidFor 21 YmatalAbstain 0 Yn erbynAgainst 31

Gwrthodwyd y gwelliant.

Amendment rejected.

Sut y pleidleisiodd yr AelodauHow Members voted
O blaidFor (21)
  • Nick Bourne
  • Alun Cairns
  • Cynog Dafis
  • David Davies
  • Glyn Davies
  • William Graham
  • Brian Hancock
  • Pauline Jarman
  • David Ian Jones
  • Elin Jones
  • Gareth Jones
  • Helen Mary Jones
  • David Lloyd
  • David Melding
  • Jonathan Morgan
  • Peter Rogers
  • Janet Ryder
  • Owen John Thomas
  • Rhodri Glyn Thomas
  • Dafydd Wigley
  • Phil Williams
Yn erbynAgainst (31)
  • Lorraine Barrett
  • Mick Bates
  • Peter Black
  • Eleanor Burnham
  • Christine Chapman
  • Jane Davidson
  • Andrew Davies
  • Ron Davies
  • Richard Edwards
  • Sue Essex
  • Delyth Evans
  • Michael German
  • Brian Gibbons
  • Janice Gregory
  • John Griffiths
  • Christine Gwyther
  • Alison Halford
  • Jane Hutt
  • Ann Jones
  • Carwyn Jones
  • Peter Law
  • Huw Lewis
  • Val Lloyd
  • Tom Middlehurst
  • Rhodri Morgan
  • Lynne Neagle
  • Alun Pugh
  • Jenny Randerson
  • Karen Sinclair
  • Gwenda Thomas
  • Kirsty Williams

Gwelliant 2 Glyn Davies t. 72

Amendment 2 Glyn Davies p. 72

DerbyniwydAdopted O blaidFor 52 YmatalAbstain 0 Yn erbynAgainst 0

Derbyniwyd y gwelliant.

Amendment accepted.

Sut y pleidleisiodd yr AelodauHow Members voted
O blaidFor (52)
  • Lorraine Barrett
  • Mick Bates
  • Peter Black
  • Nick Bourne
  • Eleanor Burnham
  • Alun Cairns
  • Christine Chapman
  • Cynog Dafis
  • Jane Davidson
  • Andrew Davies
  • David Davies
  • Glyn Davies
  • Ron Davies
  • Richard Edwards
  • Sue Essex
  • Delyth Evans
  • Michael German
  • William Graham
  • Janice Gregory
  • John Griffiths
  • Brian Gibbons
  • Christine Gwyther
  • Alison Halford
  • Brian Hancock
  • Jane Hutt
  • Pauline Jarman
  • Ann Jones
  • Carwyn Jones
  • David Ian Jones
  • Elin Jones
  • Gareth Jones
  • Helen Mary Jones
  • Peter Law
  • Huw Lewis
  • David Lloyd
  • Val Lloyd
  • David Melding
  • Tom Middlehurst
  • Jonathan Morgan
  • Rhodri Morgan
  • Lynne Neagle
  • Alun Pugh
  • Jenny Randerson
  • Peter Rogers
  • Janet Ryder
  • Karen Sinclair
  • Gwenda Thomas
  • Owen John Thomas
  • Rhodri Glyn Thomas
  • Dafydd Wigley
  • Kirsty Williams
  • Phil Williams

Gwelliant 3 Owen John Thomas t. 73

Amendment 3 Owen John Thomas p. 73

GwrthodwydRejected O blaidFor 22 YmatalAbstain 0 Yn erbynAgainst 30

Gwrthodwyd y gwelliant.

Amendment rejected.

Sut y pleidleisiodd yr AelodauHow Members voted
O blaidFor (22)
  • Nick Bourne
  • Eleanor Burnham
  • Alun Cairns
  • Cynog Dafis
  • David Davies
  • Glyn Davies
  • William Graham
  • Brian Hancock
  • Pauline Jarman
  • David Ian Jones
  • Elin Jones
  • Gareth Jones
  • Helen Mary Jones
  • David Lloyd
  • David Melding
  • Jonathan Morgan
  • Peter Rogers
  • Janet Ryder
  • Owen John Thomas
  • Rhodri Glyn Thomas
  • Dafydd Wigley
  • Phil Williams
Yn erbynAgainst (30)
  • Lorraine Barrett
  • Mick Bates
  • Peter Black
  • Christine Chapman
  • Jane Davidson
  • Andrew Davies
  • Ron Davies
  • Richard Edwards
  • Sue Essex
  • Delyth Evans
  • Michael German
  • Brian Gibbons
  • Janice Gregory
  • John Griffiths
  • Christine Gwyther
  • Alison Halford
  • Jane Hutt
  • Ann Jones
  • Carwyn Jones
  • Peter Law
  • Huw Lewis
  • Val Lloyd
  • Tom Middlehurst
  • Rhodri Morgan
  • Lynne Neagle
  • Alun Pugh
  • Jenny Randerson
  • Karen Sinclair
  • Gwenda Thomas
  • Kirsty Williams

Gwelliant 4 Owen John Thomas t. 74

Amendment 4 Owen John Thomas p. 74

DerbyniwydAdopted O blaidFor 52 YmatalAbstain 0 Yn erbynAgainst 0

Derbyniwyd y gwelliant.

Amendment accepted.

Sut y pleidleisiodd yr AelodauHow Members voted
O blaidFor (52)
  • Lorraine Barrett
  • Mick Bates
  • Peter Black
  • Nick Bourne
  • Eleanor Burnham
  • Alun Cairns
  • Christine Chapman
  • Cynog Dafis
  • Jane Davidson
  • Andrew Davies
  • David Davies
  • Glyn Davies
  • Ron Davies
  • Richard Edwards
  • Sue Essex
  • Delyth Evans
  • Michael German
  • William Graham
  • Janice Gregory
  • John Griffiths
  • Brian Gibbons
  • Christine Gwyther
  • Alison Halford
  • Brian Hancock
  • Jane Hutt
  • Pauline Jarman
  • Ann Jones
  • Carwyn Jones
  • David Ian Jones
  • Elin Jones
  • Gareth Jones
  • Helen Mary Jones
  • Peter Law
  • Huw Lewis
  • David Lloyd
  • Val Lloyd
  • David Melding
  • Tom Middlehurst
  • Jonathan Morgan
  • Rhodri Morgan
  • Lynne Neagle
  • Alun Pugh
  • Jenny Randerson
  • Peter Rogers
  • Janet Ryder
  • Karen Sinclair
  • Gwenda Thomas
  • Owen John Thomas
  • Rhodri Glyn Thomas
  • Dafydd Wigley
  • Kirsty Williams
  • Phil Williams

Cynnig wedi’i ddiwygio Jenny Randerson t. 76

Amended motion Jenny Randerson p. 76

DerbyniwydAdopted O blaidFor 51 YmatalAbstain 0 Yn erbynAgainst 0

Derbyniwyd y cynnig wedi’i ddiwygio.

Amended motion carried.

Sut y pleidleisiodd yr AelodauHow Members voted
O blaidFor (51)
  • Lorraine Barrett
  • Mick Bates
  • Peter Black
  • Nick Bourne
  • Eleanor Burnham
  • Alun Cairns
  • Christine Chapman
  • Cynog Dafis
  • Jane Davidson
  • Andrew Davies
  • David Davies
  • Glyn Davies
  • Ron Davies
  • Richard Edwards
  • Sue Essex
  • Delyth Evans
  • Michael German
  • William Graham
  • Janice Gregory
  • John Griffiths
  • Brian Gibbons
  • Christine Gwyther
  • Alison Halford
  • Brian Hancock
  • Jane Hutt
  • Pauline Jarman
  • Ann Jones
  • Carwyn Jones
  • David Ian Jones
  • Elin Jones
  • Gareth Jones
  • Helen Mary Jones
  • Huw Lewis
  • David Lloyd
  • Val Lloyd
  • Peter Law
  • David Melding
  • Tom Middlehurst
  • Jonathan Morgan
  • Lynne Neagle
  • Alun Pugh
  • Jenny Randerson
  • Peter Rogers
  • Janet Ryder
  • Karen Sinclair
  • Gwenda Thomas
  • Owen John Thomas
  • Rhodri Glyn Thomas
  • Dafydd Wigley
  • Kirsty Williams
  • Phil Williams

Delio ag Ymddieithriad Disgyblion yn Ysgolion Cymru

Tackling Disengagement among Pupils in Welsh Schools

John Marek The Deputy Presiding Officer spoken in English p. 77

John Marek Y Dirprwy Lywydd siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 77

I have selected amendment 1 in the name of Jonathan Morgan and amendments 2 and 3 in the name of Jocelyn Davies.

Yr wyf wedi dethol gwelliant 1 yn enw Jonathan Morgan a gwellianau 2 a 3 yn enw Jocelyn Davies.

Jane Davidson The Minister for Education and Lifelong Learning spoken in English p. 77

Jane Davidson Y Gweinidog dros Addysg a Dysgu Gydol Oes siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 77

I propose that

Cynigiaf fod

Jane Davidson The Minister for Education and Lifelong Learning (continued) spoken in English p. 77

Jane Davidson Y Gweinidog dros Addysg a Dysgu Gydol Oes (parhad) siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 77

Today’s debate gives us an opportunity to discuss the range of initiatives implemented by the Welsh Assembly Government to tackle disengagement among pupils in Wales. As Members can see from the summary paper that accompanies the motion, these initiatives are wide-ranging. That is why I will not support amendment 1 in the name of Jonathan Morgan, which suggests that there is a lack of progress in tackling issues related to pupil discipline. I also remind Jonathan that we no longer have exclusion targets. In ‘The Learning Country’ I set out that good practice on pupil inclusion was sufficiently established for us to focus attention in new directions, not least because we have introduced a statutory requirement from this September that local authorities should provide full-time equivalent education programmes for all young people who are outside the system.

Mae’r ddadl heddiw’n rhoi cyfle inni drafod yr ystod o fentrau y mae Llywodraeth Cynulliad Cymru wedi’u rhoi ar waith i fynd i’r afael ag ymddieithriad disgyblion yng Nghymru. Fel y gall Aelodau weld o’r papur crynodeb sy’n cyd-fynd â’r cynnig, mae’r mentrau hyn yn gynhwysfawr. Dyna pam na chefnogaf welliant 1 yn enw Jonathan Morgan, sy’n awgrymu bod diffyg cynnydd wrth fynd i’r afael â materion sy’n ymwneud â disgyblaeth disgyblion. Yr wyf yn atgoffa Jonathan hefyd nad oes gennym bellach dargedau ar gyfer gwahardd disgyblion. Yn ‘Y Wlad sy’n Dysgu’ nodais fod yr arfer da ar gynhwysiant disgyblion wedi ymwreiddio ddigon fel y gallem ganolbwyntio ar faterion newydd, yn fwy na dim am ein bod wedi cyflwyno gofyniad statudol o fis Medi eleni y dylai awdurdodau lleol ddarparu rhaglenni sy’n cyfateb i addysg lawn amser ar gyfer pob person ifanc sydd y tu allan i’r system.

I deliberately use the term ‘disengagement’, as opposed to ‘disaffection’, as it more accurately explains our philosophy. Disaffection is, in many cases, the end point of a young person’s attitude when they experience increasing disillusionment and have reached the stage of almost giving up. We need to concentrate on the early signs before they reach that drastic stage. We must put in place support that will hopefully bring young people and children back on track and help them and those around them. The emphasis is therefore on early intervention. Wales has a long history of educating children in local schools and, as far as possible, educating all children through the mainstream, which is an approach that I am keen to continue. That is reflected in the Audit Commission’s recent report, ‘Special Educational Needs: A Mainstream Issue’. The report recognises that 76 per cent of children in Wales with statements of SEN are educated in mainstream settings, compared with 61 per cent across the border. Being educated in a mainstream setting does not necessarily imply inclusion. However, the Audit Commission also challenges the league table culture as being unhelpful to children with SEN and we run an inclusive agenda in Wales. We are currently preparing guidance for schools on the practical steps that they can take to ensure that children feel fully included and properly supported. As the report says:

Defnyddiaf y term ‘ymddieithriad’, yn hytrach nag ‘anniddigrwydd’, yn fwriadol, gan ei fod yn egluro ein hathroniaeth yn gywirach. Mewn llawer o achosion, ymddieithriad yw diweddbwynt ymagwedd person ifanc wedi iddo brofi dadrithiad cynyddol a chyrraedd man lle y mae bron â rhoi’r gorau iddi. Rhaid inni ganolbwyntio ar yr arwyddion cynnar cyn iddynt gyrraedd y cyflwr drastig hwnnw. Rhaid inni roi cymorth ar waith a fydd, gobeithio, yn rhoi pobl ifanc a phlant yn ôl ar y llwybr cywir a’u helpu hwy a’r rhai o’u cwmpas. Mae pwyslais felly ar ymyrryd yn gynnar. Mae gan Gymru hanes hir o addysgu plant mewn ysgolion lleol a, hyd y gellir, o addysgu pob plentyn yn y brif ffrwd, ac mae hynny’n ddull o weithredu yr wyf yn awyddus i’w barhau. Adlewyrchir hynny yn adroddiad diweddar y Comisiwn Archwilio, ‘Special Educational Needs: A Mainstream Issue’. Mae’r adroddiad yn cydnabod bod 76 y cant o blant Cymru sydd â datganiad o anghenion addysgol arbennig yn cael eu haddysgu yn y brif ffrwd, o’i gymharu â 61 y cant y tu draw i’r ffin. Nid yw addysgu o fewn y brif ffrwd o reidrwydd yn golygu cynhwysiant. Fodd bynnag, mae’r Comisiwn Archwilio hefyd yn herio diwylliant y tablau cynghrair gan ddweud nad yw o gymorth i blant sydd ag anghenion addysgol arbennig ac yr ydym yn dilyn agenda gynhwysol yng Nghymru. Ar hyn o bryd yr ydym yn paratoi canllawiau i ysgolion ar y camau ymarferol y gallant eu cymryd i sicrhau bod plant yn teimlo eu bod wedi’u cynnwys yn llawn a’u bod yn derbyn cymorth priodol. Fel y dywed yr adroddiad:

‘Education is about helping all children to fulfil their potential and arguably, it may make most difference for those who face barriers to learning.’

Mae addysg yn golygu helpu pob plentyn i gyflawni ei botensial a gellid dadlau y gallai wneud y gwahaniaeth mwyaf i’r rhai sy’n wynebu rhwystrau rhag dysgu.

Avoiding the escalation and, ideally, the start of problems is not only about recognising symptoms in the minority of cases of pupils with major behavioural difficulties, whether or not that is due to them having special educational needs, but about putting in place more general approaches that give pupils a greater range of opportunities. We have laid out that agenda in ‘The Learning Country’ and our work on learning pathways for 14 to 19-year-olds is a good example of it. It recognises that young people are different and that we should cater for that by providing them with sufficient flexibility to follow the education path that is suitable to meet their needs and desires and by offering them the necessary support to enable them to make the right decisions. In doing so, we can avoid the problem of pupils disengaging from the education system because they feel that there is nothing in it for them, because we can directly relate to their experiences and show them that there is something in it for them. The work on learning pathways will build on the many high-quality schemes that are already being successfully run throughout Wales, funded by the Assembly, which offer alternative curricular options to those pupils who do not respond well to the standard curriculum—for example, the bridge courses run by INCLUDE, Prince’s Trust schemes and schemes that have been developed by authorities.

Mae rhwystro’r cynnydd mewn problemau, a’u hatal cyn iddynt ddechrau, os oes modd, yn golygu, nid yn unig adnabod symptomau yn y lleiafrif o achosion o ddisgyblion sydd ag anawsterau ymddygiadol mawr, boed hynny am fod ganddynt anghenion addysgol arbennig neu beidio, ond hefyd sefydlu dulliau mwy cyffredinol sy’n rhoi amrediad ehangach o gyfleoedd i ddisgyblion. Yr ydym wedi nodi’r agenda honno yn ‘Y Wlad sy’n Dysgu’ ac mae ein gwaith ar lwybrau dysgu i rai 14 i 19 mlwydd oed yn enghraifft dda ohoni. Mae’n cydnabod bod pobl ifanc yn wahanol ac y dylem ddarparu ar gyfer hynny drwy roi digon o hyblygrwydd iddynt allu dilyn y llwybr addysg sy’n addas i fodloni eu hanghenion a’u dyheadau a thrwy gynnig iddynt y cymorth angenrheidiol i’w galluogi i wneud y penderfyniadau cywir. Wrth wneud hynny, gallwn osgoi’r broblem o ymddieithriad disgyblion oddi wrth y system addysg am eu bod yn teimlo nad oes dim ynddi ar eu cyfer hwy, gan y gallwn gysylltu’n uniongyrchol â’u profiadau a dangos iddynt fod rhywbeth ynddi ar eu cyfer. Bydd y gwaith ar lwybrau dysgu’n adeiladu ar sail y nifer fawr o gynlluniau o ansawdd da a weithredir eisoes ledled Cymru, wedi’u hariannu gan y Cynulliad, sy’n cynnig dewisiadau cwricwlaidd eraill i’r disgyblion hynny nad ydynt yn ymateb yn dda i’r cwricwlwm arferol—er enghraifft, y cyrsiau pontio a weithredir gan INCLUDE, cynlluniau Ymddiriedolaeth y Tywysog a chynlluniau a ddatblygwyd gan awdurdodau.

We are considering the whole area of education from ages three to 19. That includes our quite revolutionary proposals for a play-based curriculum for children aged three to seven, which will go out to consultation after Christmas. Given that, I will oppose Jocelyn Davies’s amendment 2.

Yr ydym yn ystyried y maes addysg cyfan o dair i 19 oed. Mae hynny’n cynnwys ein cynigion eithaf chwyldroadol ar gyfer cwricwlwm sy’n seiliedig ar chwarae i blant tair i saith oed, y bydd ymgynghori arnynt ar ôl y Nadolig. Gan hynny, gwrthwynebaf welliant 2 o’r eiddo Jocelyn Davies.

I am particularly keen to address the transition from primary to secondary school.

Yr wyf yn arbennig o awyddus i ymdrin â’r trawsnewid o’r ysgol gynradd i’r ysgol uwchradd.

Ron Davies spoken in English p. 79

Ron Davies siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 79

I support the agenda that you have set out. You mentioned the potential for developing an alternative curriculum for the 14-plus age group. Would such a curriculum be available at the school the pupil currently attends or would arrangements have to be made outside the school?

Yr wyf yn cefnogi’r agenda yr ydych wedi’i nodi. Gwnaethoch sôn am y potensial i ddatblygu cwricwlwm arall i’r grŵp oedran 14 a throsodd. A fyddai cwricwlwm o’r fath ar gael yn yr ysgol lle y mae’r disgybl yn derbyn ei addysg ar y pryd neu a fyddai’n rhaid gwneud trefniadau y tu allan i’r ysgol?

Jane Davidson spoken in English p. 79

Jane Davidson siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 79

The proposals in the agenda for 14 to 19-year-olds would mean that school would be the main base for education delivery. However, it may include a college experience or work-based learning as well. We are trying to move away from the idea that there is either mainstream education or an alternative curriculum. It is damaging to young people to suggest that they are in alternative curricular arrangements. If we could offer a range of learning routes, everybody’s curriculum could be mainstream, as well as following an appropriate learning pathway. That is the purpose of our proposals.

Byddai’r cynigion yn yr agenda i rai 14 i 19 mlwydd oed yn golygu mai’r ysgol honno fyddai’r brif ganolfan ar gyfer addysgu. Fodd bynnag, gall gynnwys profiad mewn coleg neu ddysgu sy’n seiliedig ar waith hefyd. Yr ydym yn ceisio symud oddi wrth y syniad bod rhaid dewis rhwng addysg prif ffrwd a chwricwlwm arall. Peth niweidiol i bobl ifanc yw awgrymu eu bod o dan drefniadau cwricwlaidd eraill. Os gallem gynnig amrediad o lwybrau dysgu, gallai cwricwlwm pawb fod yn y brif ffrwd, yn ogystal â dilyn llwybr dysgu priodol. Dyna bwrpas ein cynigion.

The transition from primary to secondary school is important. We allowed an extra in-service training day on this matter this year. We have put in place additional funds of £25 million for 2002-03 and £32 million for 2003-04 to tackle junior class sizes, transition and poor performance. The work of Estyn showed that those schools with strong collaboration between the primary and secondary school sector do not experience the same dip in performance at key stage 3 that other schools experience. That came out strongly in the report ‘Narrowing the Gap in the Performance of Schools’. We want to build on that. That is why the new Education Act 2002 provides for Wales-only legislation to require governing bodies of the primary and secondary sector to draw up plans together to facilitate the transition of pupils from one to the other.

Mae’r trawsnewid o’r ysgol gynradd i’r ysgol uwchradd yn bwysig. Gwnaethom ganiatáu diwrnod hyfforddi mewn gwasanaeth ychwanegol ar y mater hwn eleni. Yr ydym wedi neilltuo cyllid ychwanegol o £25 miliwn ar gyfer 2002-03 a £32 miliwn ar gyfer 2003-04 i ymdrin â maint dosbarthiadau plant iau, trawsnewid a pherfformiad gwael. Mae gwaith gan Estyn wedi dangos nad yw’r ysgolion hynny lle y ceir cydweithio cadarn rhwng y sectorau ysgol gynradd ac ysgol uwchradd yn profi’r un gostyngiad mewn perfformiad yng nghyfnod allweddol 3 ag y mae ysgolion eraill yn ei brofi. Yr oedd hynny’n amlwg iawn yn yr adroddiad ‘Cau’r Bwlch ym Mherfformiad Ysgolion’. Yr ydym am adeiladu ar sail hynny. Dyna pam y mae’r Ddeddf Addysg 2002 newydd yn darparu ar gyfer deddfwriaeth i Gymru’n unig i fynnu bod cyrff llywodraethu yn y sectorau cynradd ac uwchradd yn paratoi cynlluniau gyda’i gilydd i hwyluso trawsnewidiad disgyblion o’r naill i’r llall.

Providing all children with the same basic opportunities must be the cornerstone of our approach. I mentioned our new proposals for three to seven-year-olds, which will go out to consultation after Christmas. However, that approach is also enshrined in the early and extending entitlement initiatives and in the children and young people’s framework, which is a vital element in ensuring joint working between those providing education and those who provide other services to children. An example of a basic entitlement is the provision of essential literacy and numeracy skills to children. We know that, if these skills are poor compared with those of their peers, children can quickly become isolated and resentful and will often react violently. We have our all-age basic skills strategy in Wales and we have provided £30 million over three years to deliver a programme that starts with our youngest children. Wales is particularly successful in gaining quality marks for both its primary and secondary schools, far outstripping the rest of the UK. Two counties in Wales are about to demonstrate that whole counties can get the quality mark because of our commitment. We achieved our key stage 2 results this year because of our commitment to literacy and numeracy.

Conglfaen ein dull gweithredu yw darparu’r un cyfleoedd sylfaenol ar gyfer pob plentyn. Cyfeiriais at ein cynigion newydd ar gyfer rhai tair i saith mlwydd oed, y bydd ymgynghori arnynt ar ôl y Nadolig. Fodd bynnag, mae’r dull gweithredu hwnnw wedi’i ymgorffori hefyd ym mentrau’r blynyddoedd cynnar ac ymestyn hawliau ac yn y fframwaith i blant a phobl ifanc, sy’n elfen hollbwysig wrth sicrhau cydweithio rhwng y rhai sy’n darparu addysg a’r rhai sy’n darparu gwasanaethau eraill ar gyfer plant. Un enghraifft o hawl sylfaenol yw dysgu sgiliau llythrennedd a rhifedd hanfodol i blant. Gwyddom, os yw’r sgiliau hynny’n wael o’u cymharu â rhai eu cyfoedion, y gall plant fynd yn ynysig a digio’n gyflym ac y byddant yn aml yn ymateb yn dreisgar. Mae gennym strategaeth sgiliau sylfaenol i bob oed yng Nghymru ac yr ydym wedi darparu £30 miliwn dros dair blynedd i gyflawni rhaglen sy’n dechrau â’n plant ieuengaf. Mae Cymru’n arbennig o lwyddiannus wrth ennill nodau ansawdd i’w hysgolion cynradd ac uwchradd, ac mae ymhell ar y blaen i weddill y DU. Mae dwy sir yng Nghymru ar fin dangos bod siroedd cyfan yn gallu cael y nod ansawdd oherwydd ein hymrwymiad. Gwnaethom sicrhau ein canlyniadau cyfnod allweddol 2 eleni oherwydd ein hymrwymiad i lythrennedd a rhifedd.

However, this is not just a matter of the curriculum and the subjects taught to children, it is about the school atmosphere and its attitude towards children. The healthy schools scheme is a vital example of developing the school to be a healthy environment for learning by providing breakfast clubs, healthy tuck shops and involving the wider community within which the school is the hub—there is an agenda about the community focus of schools. Only yesterday, I spoke at the woodlands for learning conference where I was delighted to hear the Welsh Assembly Government commended on its vision in using woodlands as assets, and on the additional money to provide rangers and support for forestry initiatives to ensure that all children, particularly in Communities First areas, can experience the variety of learning outdoors. We must also build on pupil confidence and engage them on issues that directly affect them in school. We gave a commitment in ‘The Learning Country’ to establish school councils, and we are keen to make the voice of young people heard in policy development, which is why we established Funky Dragon—the children and young people’s assembly for Wales. That is also why we have Canllaw Online, which provides vital information to young people and was created by them. It is information that is right for them and used by them.

Er hynny, mae hyn yn ymwneud â mwy na’r cwricwlwm a’r pynciau a ddysgir i blant, mae’n ymwneud ag awyrgylch yr ysgol a’i hagwedd at blant. Mae’r cynllun ysgolion iach yn enghraifft hollbwysig o ddatblygu’r ysgol yn amgylchedd iach ar gyfer dysgu drwy ddarparu clybiau brecwast, siopau bwyd iach a chynnwys y gymuned ehangach y mae’r ysgol yn ganolbwynt iddi—ceir agenda sy’n ymwneud â ffocws cymunedol ysgolion. Ddoe ddiwethaf, yr oeddwn yn siarad yn y gynhadledd coetiroedd ar gyfer dysgu, ac yr oeddwn wrth fy modd o glywed canmol Llywodraeth Cynulliad Cymru ar ei gweledigaeth wrth ddefnyddio coetiroedd fel asedau, ac ar yr arian ychwanegol i ddarparu fforestwyr a chymorth ar gyfer mentrau coedwigaeth i sicrhau bod pob plentyn, yn enwedig mewn ardaloedd Cymunedau yn Gyntaf, yn gallu profi’r amrywiaeth o ddysgu awyr agored. Yn ogystal â hynny, rhaid inni feithrin hyder y disgyblion ac ennyn eu diddordeb mewn materion sy’n effeithio’n uniongyrchol arnynt yn yr ysgol. Gwnaethom ymrwymo yn ‘Y Wlad sy’n Dysgu’ i sefydlu cynghorau ysgol, ac yr ydym yn awyddus i sicrhau y clywir llais pobl ifanc wrth ddatblygu polisi, a dyna pam y gwnaethom sefydlu Draig Ffynci—cynulliad plant a phobl ifanc Cymru. Dyna pam y mae Canllaw Online gennym hefyd, sy’n rhoi gwybodaeth hollbwysig i bobl ifanc ac a grewyd ganddynt. Mae’n wybodaeth sy’n briodol iddynt hwy ac a ddefnyddir ganddynt.

We are looking at the overall education experience for children and young people and therefore I will oppose amendment 4 in the name of Jocelyn Davies. Examination results are not our only measure of success in education. They are one measure, and we must congratulate those who do well within the system. However, the Assembly’s performance indicators also consider issues such as attendance and the provision of education for excluded pupils. These are linked to policy agreements and the accompanying funding and performance incentivisation grants. I am pleased that we met, a year early, our target to reduce the number of 16-year-olds leaving full-time education without qualifications, and the number of 16 to 18-year olds leaving without qualifications. That is part of our agenda to ensure that the age of 16 is a progress point in education, not an exit point.

Yr ydym yn ystyried y profiad addysg cyffredinol ar gyfer plant a phobl ifanc ac felly gwnaf wrthwynebu gwelliant 4 yn enw Jocelyn Davies. Nid canlyniadau arholiad yw’r unig gyfrwng sydd gennym i fesur llwyddiant mewn addysg. Un mesur ydynt, a rhaid inni longyfarch y rhai sy’n gwneud yn dda o fewn y system. Fodd bynnag, mae dangosyddion perfformiad y Cynulliad hefyd yn ystyried materion fel presenoldeb a darparu addysg ar gyfer disgyblion a waharddwyd. Mae’r rhain yn gysylltiedig â chytundebau polisi a’r cyllid a’r grantiau anogaeth perfformiad sy’n cyd-fynd â hwy. Yr wyf yn falch ein bod wedi cyrraedd ein targed i ostwng nifer y rhai 16 mlwydd oed sy’n gadael addysg amser llawn heb gymwysterau, a nifer y rhai 16 i 18 mlwydd oed sy’n gadael heb gymwysterau, a hynny flwyddyn yn fuan. Mae hynny’n rhan o’n hagenda i sicrhau bod 16 oed yn bwynt cynnydd mewn addysg, nid yn bwynt gadael.

I have described our wide-ranging initiatives, but we cannot ignore the fact that there will always be acute problems. I have spoken previously about the attendance task and finish group, which is a group of experts who have advised us on how we can make schools better places for young people in terms of the educational options offered and the general environment. I am particularly mindful of the Children’s Commissioner for Wales’s view that we must tackle the issue of school toilets.

Yr wyf wedi disgrifio ein mentrau cynhwysfawr, ond ni allwn anwybyddu’r ffaith y bydd problemau difrifol yn codi bob amser. Soniais o’r blaen am y grŵp gorchwyl a gorffen ar bresenoldeb, sy’n grŵp o arbenigwyr sydd wedi ein cynghori ar y modd y gallwn wneud ysgolion yn well lleoedd i bobl ifanc o ran y dewisiadau addysgol a gynigir a’r amgylchedd cyffredinol. Yr wyf yn arbennig o ymwybodol o farn Comisiynydd Plant Cymru bod rhaid inni fynd i’r afael â mater toiledau ysgol.

In the attendance task and finish group report that I presented to Committee in October, there were 16 recommendations on attendance issues. That is about how we tackle the whole disengagement agenda. The report highlighted the need to address the vocational and academic balance of education for 14 to 19-year-olds and that we need to address transition and get early-years systems right—all of which we are working on—as well as the need to look at the role of the educational welfare service, the links to magistrates courts and electronic registration. The action plan will be released shortly.

Yn adroddiad y grŵp gorchwyl a gorffen ar bresenoldeb a gyflwynais i’r Pwyllgor ym mis Hydref, yr oedd 16 o argymhellion ar faterion presenoldeb. Mae hynny’n gysylltiedig â’r modd yr ydym yn ymdrin â’r holl agenda ymddieithriad. Tynnodd yr adroddiad sylw at yr angen i ymdrin â’r cydbwysedd galwedigaethol ac academaidd yn addysg y rhai 14 i 19 mlwydd oed a’r angen inni roi sylw i drawsnewid a chael systemau’r blynyddoedd cynnar yn iawn—ac yr ydym yn gweithio ar bob un o’r rhain—yn ogystal â’r angen i ystyried rôl y gwasanaeth lles addysgol, y cysylltiadau â llysoedd ynadon a chofrestru electronig. Cyhoeddir y cynllun gweithredu cyn hir.

There is continuing concern over the behaviour of a minority of pupils and whether the situation is worsening over time. We are funding a pilot training course in behaviour management to equip teachers with skills to avoid, hopefully, the exacerbation of disruptive behaviour. I am keen to ensure clear advice on bullying, and we will provide draft anti-bullying guidance to schools early in the new year as part of the revision of our current guidance on pupil support and social inclusion. We are reviewing the large circular 3/99, ‘Pupil Support and Social Inclusion’, which covers attendance, behaviour, re-integration, exclusions and education other than at school. We are also reviewing guidelines for learning support units. We will consult on this widely in the new year, including with Funky Dragon, because it is important to involve young people in this process.

Mae pryder o hyd ynghylch ymddygiad lleiafrif o ddisgyblion ac a yw’r sefyllfa’n gwaethygu dros amser. Yr ydym yn ariannu cwrs hyfforddi peilot ar reoli ymddygiad i roi sgiliau i athrawon fel y gellir osgoi, gobeithio, unrhyw ddirywiad pellach o ran ymddygiad aflonyddol. Yr wyf yn awyddus i sicrhau cyngor eglur ar fwlio, a byddwn yn rhoi canllawiau gwrth-fwlio drafft i ysgolion yn gynnar yn y flwyddyn newydd fel rhan o’r adolygiad o’n canllawiau presennol ar gefnogi disgyblion a chynhwysiant cymdeithasol. Yr ydym yn adolygu’r cylchlythyr maith 3/99, ‘Cynnal Disgyblion a Chynhwysiant Cymdeithasol’, sy’n ymdrin â phresenoldeb, ymddygiad, ailintegreiddio, gwaharddiadau ac addysg heblaw honno yn yr ysgol. Yr ydym hefyd yn adolygu’r canllawiau i unedau cynnal dysgu. Gwnawn ymgynghori’n eang ar hyn yn y flwyddyn newydd, gan gynnwys Draig Ffynci, gan ei bod yn bwysig cynnwys pobl ifanc yn y broses hon.

My officials are currently visiting all education authorities to gather information on the various strategies that are being adopted so that we can share good practice. We have provided an extra £0.5 million to fund nine pilot projects tackling disaffection, which is in addition to the £11 million provided through the grants for education support and training. Therefore, there is a range of initiatives to tackle disengagement and disaffection. I am confident that changing the culture to turn Wales into a learning country, providing the best possible opportunities for our young people and a flying start for every child, will ensure a positive education agenda in Wales.

Mae fy swyddogion yn ymweld â’r holl awdurdodau addysg ar hyn o bryd i gasglu gwybodaeth am y gwahanol strategaethau a fabwysiedir fel y gallwn rannu’r arferion da. Yr ydym wedi darparu £0.5 miliwn ychwanegol i ariannu naw prosiect peilot i fynd i’r afael ag ymddieithriad, sy’n ychwanegol at yr £11 miliwn a ddarparwyd drwy’r grantiau cynnal addysg a hyfforddiant. Felly, mae amryw o fentrau i fynd i’r afael ag ymddieithriad ac anniddigrwydd. Yr wyf yn ffyddiog y bydd newid y diwylliant, gan droi Cymru’n wlad sy’n dysgu, a darparu’r cyfleoedd gorau posibl ar gyfer ein pobl ifanc a chychwyniad ar garlam i bob plentyn, yn sicrhau agenda addysg gadarnhaol yng Nghymru.

Jonathan Morgan spoken in English p. 83

Jonathan Morgan siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 83

I propose amendment 1. At the end of the motion add:

Cynigiaf welliant 1. Ychwanegu ar ddiwedd y cynnig:

Jonathan Morgan (continued) spoken in English p. 83

Jonathan Morgan (parhad) siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 83

We are delighted to have this debate this afternoon to examine this important work that is being undertaken by the Minister for Education and Lifelong Learning and the Assembly’s education department. Schools in Wales provide a good learning environment, by and large. We have some excellent schools in Wales and a dedicated teaching profession. They should be congratulated on the enormous amount of work that they undertake daily—both in responding to the agenda that is being pursued by the Minister, and in responding to local and community needs in delivering education. No-one doubts the enormity of the task that teachers undertake, and we should record our thanks to them for that work.

Yr ydym yn falch iawn o gael y ddadl hon y prynhawn yma i archwilio’r gwaith pwysig hwn a wneir gan y Gweinidog dros Addysg a Dysgu Gydol Oes ac adran addysg y Cynulliad. Mae ysgolion yng Nghymru’n darparu amgylchedd dysgu da, at ei gilydd. Mae gennym rai ysgolion rhagorol yng Nghymru ac athrawon ymroddedig. Dylid eu llongyfarch ar y gwaith aruthrol a gyflawnant bob diwrnod—wrth ymateb i’r agenda a ddilynir gan y Gweinidog, ac wrth ymateb i anghenion lleol a chymunedol wrth ddarparu addysg. Nid oes neb yn amau nad yw’r dasg a gyflawnir gan athrawon yn un enfawr, a dylem roi ar glawr ein diolch iddynt am eu gwaith.

I propose amendment 1 because you cannot examine youth disengagement or disaffection without considering the tremendous pressures that the teaching profession faces in dealing with young people who cannot be, and do not wish to be, taught in a classroom setting. I refer to exclusion targets because this Government introduced them. That made it even more difficult for schools to exclude pupils when those pupils needed to be excluded. It was interesting that when exclusion targets were introduced, the number of teacher appeals against readmitting those excluded pupils increased almost automatically. It is interesting that the teaching profession responded in that way. It was clearly concerned about the process that allowed excluded pupils back into the classroom, and the Government was aiding that process. I do not think that exclusion targets are right. We should provide as much support, advice and help to schools as possible, and give them the right to respond as they see fit. If that means that a pupil cannot be taught in the school setting, that is the right way to deal with that pupil. The school should be given the rights and responsibilities to deal with such problems.

Cynigiaf welliant 1 am na ellir archwilio ymddieithriad neu anniddigrwydd ymysg pobl ifanc heb ystyried y pwysau aruthrol y mae athrawon yn eu hwynebu wrth ddelio â phobl ifanc na ellir eu dysgu, ac na ddymunant gael eu dysgu, mewn ystafell ddosbarth. Cyfeiriaf at dargedau ar gyfer gwaharddiadau am mai’r Llywodraeth hon a’u cyflwynodd. Mae hynny wedi peri ei bod yn anos byth i ysgolion wahardd disgyblion pan fo angen gwahardd y disgyblion hynny. Diddorol oedd nodi, pan gyflwynwyd targedau ar gyfer gwaharddiadau, fod nifer yr apelau gan athrawon yn erbyn aildderbyn y disgyblion hynny a waharddwyd wedi cynyddu’n awtomatig bron. Mae’n ddiddorol bod athrawon wedi ymateb felly. Yr oeddent yn amlwg yn bryderus ynghylch y broses a oedd yn caniatáu i ddisgyblion a waharddwyd ddychwelyd i’r ystafell ddosbarth, ac yr oedd y Llywodraeth yn cynorthwyo’r broses honno. Ni chredaf fod targedau ar gyfer gwaharddiadau’n iawn. Dylem ddarparu cymaint o gefnogaeth, cyngor a chymorth i ysgolion ag y bo modd, a rhoi hawl iddynt ymateb fel y barnont orau. Os yw hynny’n golygu na ellir dysgu disgybl yn yr ysgol, felly y dylid delio â’r disgybl hwnnw. Dylid rhoi hawliau a chyfrifoldebau i’r ysgol i ddelio â phroblemau o’r fath.

Jonathan Morgan (continued) spoken in English p. 84

Jonathan Morgan (parhad) siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 84

I will talk later about cause and effect, because the Minister did not consider that in the round in her speech. First, however, I congratulate the Wales youth access initiative on its work, particularly the analysis undertaken by Estyn. We need to respond adequately to Estyn’s inspection of that initiative to assess where it succeeded and where it failed, and how we move on from that. I am sorry that the Government has not responded more positively to the amendments. The Plaid Cymru amendments are sensible. We need to consider a more flexible curriculum. We also need to consider the examinations framework, as well as the requirement of schools to be able to respond to the needs of communities. The Minister did not deal adequately with the amendments in her speech.

Siaradaf yn ddiweddarach am achos ac effaith, oherwydd ni wnaeth y Gweinidog ystyried hynny yn ei gyfanrwydd yn ei haraith. Yn gyntaf, fodd bynnag, llongyfarchaf fenter mynediad ieuenctid Cymru ar ei gwaith, yn enwedig y dadansoddiad a wnaed gan Estyn. Rhaid inni ymateb yn ddigonol i arolygiad Estyn o’r fenter honno i asesu ym mhle y llwyddodd ac ym mhle y methodd, a sut yr awn ymlaen o’r fan honno. Mae’n ddrwg gennyf nad yw’r Llywodraeth wedi ymateb yn fwy cadarnhaol i’r gwelliannau. Mae gwelliannau Plaid Cymru yn synhwyrol. Rhaid inni ystyried cwricwlwm mwy hyblyg. Rhaid inni hefyd ystyried y fframwaith arholiadau, yn ogystal â’r gofyniad i ysgolion allu ymateb i anghenion cymunedau. Ni wnaeth y Gweinidog ymdrin yn ddigonol â’r gwelliannau yn ei haraith.

I ask the Minister to also consider the variety of best practice that exists in Wales, particularly in some partnership schemes. The umbrella group, Gweini, has pioneered a project called Gap. These partnership projects consider the root causes of disengagement and disaffection, particularly relating to unhappy homes and broken families. We need to recognise that most children who are disaffected or disengaged from the education system come from unhappy or broken families. There is a huge link between disaffection and family life. This cannot be considered without discussing cause and effect. The cause of disaffection is, in the round, family background, broken family background, areas where parents do not get involved in their children’s education, and the effect of that disaffection on our teachers, our schools, and on other pupils who look forward daily to being taught in a classroom by our professional teachers. We cannot consider this, therefore, without considering the effect on teachers, parents and governors. In future, we need to ensure that all these people are involved in our policy decisions.

Gofynnaf hefyd i’r Gweinidog ystyried yr amrywiaeth o arfer gorau a geir yng Nghymru, yn enwedig mewn rhai cynlluniau partneriaeth. Mae’r grŵp ambarél, Gweini, wedi rhagbrofi prosiect o’r enw Gap. Mae’r prosiectau partneriaeth hyn yn ystyried achosion sylfaenol ymddieithriad ac anniddigrwydd, yn enwedig y rhai sy’n ymwneud â chartrefi annedwydd a theuluoedd toredig. Rhaid inni gydnabod bod y rhan fwyaf o blant sy’n anniddig neu wedi ymddieithrio oddi wrth y system addysg yn dod o deuluoedd annedwydd neu doredig. Mae cyswllt amlwg iawn rhwng ymddieithriad a bywyd teuluol. Ni ellir ystyried hynny heb drafod achos ac effaith. Achos yr anniddigrwydd, yn gyffredinol, yw’r cefndir teuluol, cefndir teuluol toredig, ardaloedd lle nad yw rhieni’n cymryd rhan yn addysg eu plant, ac effaith yr anniddigrwydd hwnnw ar ein hathrawon, ein hysgolion, ac ar ddisgyblion eraill sy’n edrych ymlaen bob dydd at gael eu dysgu mewn ystafell ddosbarth gan ein hathrawon proffesiynol. Ni allwn ystyried hyn, felly, heb ystyried yr effaith ar athrawon, rhieni a llywodraethwyr. Yn y dyfodol, rhaid inni sicrhau bod yr holl bobl hyn yn cymryd rhan yn ein penderfyniadau polisi.

Helen Mary Jones spoken in English p. 85

Helen Mary Jones siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 85

I propose the following amendments in the name of Jocelyn Davies. Amendment 2: add as a new point:

Cynigiaf y gwelliannau canlynol yn enw Jocelyn Davies. Gwelliant 2: ychwanegu pwynt newydd:

Helen Mary Jones (continued) spoken in English p. 85

Helen Mary Jones (parhad) siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 85

I propose amendment 3. Add as a new point:

Cynigiaf welliant 3. Ychwanegu pwynt newydd

Helen Mary Jones (continued) spoken in English p. 85

Helen Mary Jones (parhad) siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 85

The Welsh Assembly Government’s motion asks the Assembly to note the current work being undertaken to tackle the disengagement of pupils in schools. Plaid Cymru—the Party of Wales is happy to do that. We might even have been prepared to welcome it. However, we are concerned that the motion, as with so much that this Government proposes, lacks substance. That is why we propose these modest amendments.

Mae cynnig Llywodraeth Cynulliad Cymru yn gofyn i’r Cynulliad nodi’r gwaith a wneir ar hyn o bryd i fynd i’r afael ag ymddieithrio gan ddisgyblion mewn ysgolion. Mae Plaid Cymru—the Party of Wales yn falch o wneud hynny. Gallasem hyd yn oed fod yn barod i’w groesawu. Fodd bynnag, yr ydym yn pryderu bod y cynnig hwn, fel cymaint a gynigir gan y Llywodraeth hon, yn ddisylwedd. Dyna pam yr ydym yn cynnig y gwelliannau rhesymol hyn.

There are many factors outside the education system that may make it hard for children and young people to engage: poverty, social exclusion, sometimes downright discrimination and prejudice, can all be factors. Children entering the system at three or four years old with poor social skills and lacking confidence are disadvantaged from the start. Young people living in sub-standard homes on low income are bound to find it harder to study and to engage than young people from more fortunate backgrounds. Some of the projects outlined in the supporting document before us today begin to address some of these issues, and they are welcome. However, these issues will need tackling on many fronts, not just by the education system.

Mae llawer o ffactorau y tu allan i’r system addysg a all beri ei bod yn anodd i blant a phobl ifanc gymryd rhan: mae tlodi, allgáu cymdeithasol, a gwahaniaethu a rhagfarn noeth weithiau, i gyd yn ffactorau posibl. Mae plant sy’n mynd i’r system yn dair neu bedair blwydd oed sydd â sgiliau cymdeithasol gwael ac yn ddihyder o dan anfantais o’r dechrau. Mae pobl ifanc sy’n byw mewn tai is-safonol ar incwm isel yn sicr o’i chael yn anos astudio a chymryd rhan na phobl ifanc o gefndiroedd mwy ffodus. Mae rhai o’r prosiectau a ddisgrifir yn y ddogfen ategol sydd o’n blaen heddiw yn dechrau ymdrin â rhai o’r materion hyn, ac maent i’w croesawu. Fodd bynnag, bydd angen ymdrin â’r materion hyn o sawl cyfeiriad, nid yn unig drwy’r system addysg.

Our amendments seek modestly, in the context of this debate, to highlight elements in the education system that contribute to or exacerbate disengagement: the prescriptive, over-stuffed, inflexible national curriculum that our schools have no option but to teach, and the over-emphasis on examinations and academic achievement as almost the sole measure of school and individual pupil success. I will not rehearse at length the concerns about the national curriculum. It is now widely accepted that there is far too much prescriptive subject based content in it, and that redesign is desperately needed to place the emphasis on developing children as self-motivated, self-directed learners to enable them to develop a built-in nonsense detector, if you like, and to give children space to develop their own skills and interest. At present, we have children and young people struggling to absorb facts that they will never need to know, teachers frustrated by the inflexibility that prevents them from using their own professional skills and judgment to develop their pupils’ interests and abilities, and employers unable to recruit staff with the social, practical and learning skills that they require. This state of affairs cannot be allowed to continue.

Mae ein gwelliannau’n ymgais wylaidd, yng nghyd-destun y ddadl hon, i dynnu sylw at rai elfennau yn y system addysg sy’n cyfrannu at ymddieithrio neu’n ei waethygu: y cwricwlwm cenedlaethol gorchmynnol, gorlawn ac anhyblyg y mae ein hysgolion yn gorfod ei ddysgu, a’r gorbwyslais ar arholiadau a chyrhaeddiad academaidd fel yr unig fesur bron o lwyddiant yr ysgol a’r disgybl unigol. Nid ymdriniaf yn hirfaith eto â’r pryderon ynghylch y cwricwlwm cenedlaethol. Derbynnir yn gyffredinol bellach fod ynddo ormod o lawer o gynnwys gorchmynnol sy’n seiliedig ar bynciau, a bod taer angen ei ailgynllunio er mwyn rhoi’r pwyslais ar ddatblygu plant yn ddysgwyr brwdfrydig, hunangyfeiriedig i’w galluogi i ddatblygu’r gallu i ganfod nonsens, os caf ei roi felly, ac i roi cyfle i blant ddatblygu eu sgiliau a’u diddordebau eu hunain. Ar hyn o bryd, mae gennym blant a phobl ifanc sy’n ymlafnio i lyncu ffeithiau na fydd arnynt eu hangen byth, athrawon sy’n rhwystredig oherwydd yr anhyblygrwydd sy’n eu hatal rhag defnyddio eu sgiliau a’u barn broffesiynol i feithrin diddordebau a galluoedd eu disgyblion, a chyflogwyr na allant recriwtio staff sy’n meddu ar y sgiliau cymdeithasol, ymarferol a dysgu y mae arnynt eu hangen. Ni ellir caniatáu i’r sefyllfa hon barhau.

The Welsh Assembly Government has gone some way towards acknowledging the problem in the work that is being undertaken around the 14 to 19-year-old age group, but we are concerned that this is starting in the wrong place. How are young people, at 14 years of age, supposed to make informed choices about their individual learning pathways when their previous educational experience has been of a relentless sausage machine? Many of them are already alienated by that time from an education system that gives them no space to learn for themselves, and values them only if they achieve academically. By 14-years-old, we have lost too many of them.

Mae Llywodraeth Cynulliad Cymru wedi cydnabod y broblem yn rhannol yn y gwaith a wneir ynghylch y grŵp oedran 14 i 19 mlwydd oed, ond yr ydym yn pryderu ei bod yn dechrau yn y lle anghywir. Sut y mae pobl ifanc, yn 14 mlwydd oed, i fod i wneud dewisiadau gwybodus am eu llwybrau dysgu unigol a hwythau cyn hynny wedi profi addysg ar ffurf peiriant selsig diorffwys? Erbyn hynny mae llawer ohonynt eisoes wedi ymddieithrio oddi wrth system addysg nad yw’n rhoi cyfle iddynt ddysgu drostynt eu hunain, ac nad yw ond yn eu gwerthfawrogi os ydynt yn llwyddo’n academaidd. Erbyn iddynt gyrraedd 14 mlwydd oed, yr ydym wedi colli gormod ohonynt.

Hence, our amendment 2 asks us to seriously consider the whole national curriculum with a view to eliminating from it those elements that contribute to loss of interest and disengagement. This is a huge task, which needs to be begun at once, and undertaken systematically and as a whole, in sharp contrast to the Government of Wales’s piecemeal approach. We look forward to seeing the early years proposal, but we are concerned about the overall approach. I therefore ask the Assembly, despite what the Minister said, to support our amendment 2.

Oherwydd hynny, mae gwelliant 2 o’n heiddo yn gofyn inni ystyried y cwricwlwm cenedlaethol cyfan o ddifrif gyda golwg ar ddileu’r elfennau hynny ynddo sy’n cyfrannu at golli diddordeb ac ymddieithrio. Mae hon yn dasg anferth, ac mae angen cychwyn arni ar unwaith, a’i chyflawni’n systematig ac yn ei chyfanrwydd, mewn cyferbyniad eglur i ddull gweithredu tameidiog Llywodraeth Cymru. Edrychwn ymlaen at weld y cynnig ar gyfer y blynyddoedd cynnar, ond yr ydym yn pryderu ynghylch y dull gweithredu cyffredinol. Gan hynny, gofynnaf i’r Cynulliad gefnogi gwelliant 2 o’n heiddo, er gwaethaf yr hyn a ddywedodd y Gweinidog.

Amendment 3 highlights how the overemphasis on examination results has historically discouraged schools from prioritising work with pupils that risk disengagement. There have been schools that have resisted this pressure, and they are extremely honourable exceptions. However, for many it has been overwhelming. The end of publishing league tables will help, but the culture that values academic achievement above all else remains. If we are to create conditions where real parity of esteem between academic and practical achievement develops, we must find more effective ways of measuring and acknowledging these achievements—of individuals and institutions—in fields such as social skills, the arts, sport and community contributions. This amendment calls on the Government of Wales to expand upon and give a higher priority to the work of developing such effective measurement tools. I trust that the Assembly will support it.

Mae gwelliant 3 yn tynnu sylw at y modd y mae’r gorbwyslais ar ganlyniadau arholiad wedi cymell ysgolion yn hanesyddol i beidio â rhoi blaenoriaeth i waith gyda disgyblion sydd mewn perygl o ymddieithrio. Mae ysgolion a wrthsafodd y pwysau hyn, ac maent yn eithriadau tra anrhydeddus. Er hynny, bu’n ormod i lawer ohonynt. Bydd terfynu cyhoeddi tablau cynghrair o gymorth, ond mae’r diwylliant sy’n trysori cyflawniad academaidd uwchlaw pob dim arall yn parhau. Os ydym i greu amodau i ddatblygu’r un parch at gyflawniad academaidd ac ymarferol, rhaid inni ddod o hyd i ddulliau mwy effeithiol o fesur a chydnabod y cyflawniadau hyn—gan unigolion a sefydliadau—mewn meysydd fel sgiliau cymdeithasol, y celfyddydau, chwaraeon a chyfrannu i’r gymuned. Mae’r gwelliant hwn yn galw ar Lywodraeth Cymru i ehangu a rhoi blaenoriaeth uwch i’r gwaith o ddatblygu offer mesur effeithiol o’r fath. Hyderaf y bydd y Cynulliad yn ei gefnogi.

The issues leading to disengagement from education are complex, and many of them are deep-rooted. A variety of approaches will be needed to address them, and we are glad to acknowledge the good work that is already being done. However, more attention must be paid to those elements in the education system itself that risk pushing children and young people into disengagement. That is why we have tabled these modest and reasonable amendments, which the Minister will not support. The Government seems loth to support anything that comes before the Assembly that might commit it to doing something. Nevertheless, I urge the Assembly to support amendments 2 and 3.

Mae’r materion sy’n arwain at ymddieithrio oddi wrth addysg yn gymhleth, ac mae llawer ohonynt wedi ymwreiddio’n ddwfn. Bydd angen amryw o ddulliau gweithredu i’w trin, ac yr ydym yn falch o gydnabod y gwaith da a wneir eisoes. Er hynny, rhaid rhoi mwy o sylw i’r elfennau hynny yn y system addysg ei hun y mae perygl iddynt wthio plant a phobl ifanc nes eu bod yn ymddieithrio. Dyna pam yr ydym wedi cyflwyno’r gwelliannau syml a rhesymol hyn, na wnaiff y Gweinidog eu cefnogi. Ymddengys fod y Llywodraeth yn gyndyn o gefnogi dim a ddaw gerbron y Cynulliad a allai ei rhwymo i wneud rhywbeth. Er hynny, anogaf y Cynulliad i gefnogi gwelliannau 2 a 3.

Brian Gibbons spoken in English p. 88

Brian Gibbons siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 88

During last week’s short debate, initiated by Lynne Neagle, on renewing the physical fabric of our most deprived communities several useful points were made in relation to doing this and achieving improvement. The issues that we must face include the lack of expectations that exist in those communities, the conscious neglect of these communities that has existed over many decades, and the ‘any old thing will do’ mentality in terms of service delivery to those communities. Many of the same features exist as regards disengagement from education. It is no coincidence that the level of disengagement from education is also greatest in the most socially and economically deprived parts of Wales.

Yn ystod y ddadl fer yr wythnos diwethaf, a gyflwynwyd gan Lynne Neagle, ar adnewyddu gwead ffisegol ein cymunedau mwyaf difreintiedig, gwnaed sawl pwynt buddiol ynghylch gwneud hynny a sicrhau gwelliannau. Ymysg y materion y mae’n rhaid inni eu hwynebu y mae’r diffyg disgwyliadau a geir yn y cymunedau hynny, yr esgeuluso bwriadol ar y cymunedau hynny dros ddegawdau lawer, a’r meddylfryd ‘gwnaiff rhywbeth y tro’ o ran darparu gwasanaethau yn y cymunedau hynny. Mae llawer o’r nodweddion hynny’n bodoli mewn cysylltiad ag ymddieithrio oddi wrth addysg. Nid cyd-ddigwyddiad yw bod graddau’r ymddieithrio oddi wrth addysg ar ei fwyaf yn y rhannau o Gymru sy’n fwyaf difreintiedig yn gymdeithasol ac yn economaidd.

In large parts of our country the expectation for our children is so poor that they do not get the start in life to which they are entitled. There is a mindset that it is too difficult to deliver educational performance, that there is no tradition of academic achievement, that parents are not sufficiently supportive, that there is no future in education, that no jobs are available, that there are no role models to provide inspiration, and that there is a long, sad history of a lack of resources and a legacy of underinvestment. All these points are true, but they need not breed the fatalism that often accompanies them.

Mewn rhannau helaeth o’n gwlad mae’r disgwyliadau ar gyfer ein plant mor isel fel nad ydynt yn cael y dechrau mewn bywyd y mae ganddynt hawl iddo. Ceir meddylfryd sy’n dal ei bod yn rhy anodd cyflawni perfformiad addysgol, nad oes traddodiad o gyflawniad academaidd, nad yw rhieni’n ddigon cefnogol, ac nad oes dyfodol mewn addysg, nad oes swyddi ar gael, nad oes rôl-fodelau i roi ysbrydoliaeth, a bod hanes hir a thrist o ddiffyg adnoddau ac o danfuddsoddi yn y gorffennol. Mae pob un o’r pwyntiau hynny’n wir, ond nid oes rhaid iddynt feithrin y dynghediaeth sy’n cyd-fynd â hwy’n aml.

I base that thesis on two practical examples from my constituency of Aberavon. Sandfields Comprehensive School serves two wards in Sandfields that are among the top six most deprived wards in Wales. That is where the Minister for Health and Social Services launched the ‘Narrowing the Gap in the Performance of Schools’ report on educational achievement in Wales. Over the last six years, the proportion of children achieving five GCSE grades A to C has improved, increasing from 14 per cent to 41 per cent. That is a consistent improvement, achieved over a six-year period. At the same time, the achievement in grades A to G grew from 50 per cent to 89 per cent, which is better than the Welsh average. It is not surprising that in 1999 it was the second most improved school in Wales, and in 2000 was the most improved school: we pay tribute to Sandfields comprehensive for that.

Seiliaf y ddadl honno ar ddwy enghraifft ymarferol yn fy etholaeth i, sef Aberafan. Mae Ysgol Gyfun Sandfields yn gwasanaethu dwy ward yn Sandfields sydd ymhlith y chwe ward fwyaf difreintiedig yng Nghymru. Yn y fan honno y lansiodd y Gweinidog dros Iechyd a Gwasanaethau Cymdeithasol adroddiad ‘Cau’r Bwlch ym Mherfformiad Ysgolion’ ar gyrhaeddiad addysgol yng Nghymru. Dros y chwe blynedd diwethaf, mae’r gyfran o blant sy’n ennill pum TGAU ar radd A i C wedi gwella, gan godi o 14 y cant i 41 y cant. Mae hwnnw’n welliant cyson, a gyflawnwyd dros gyfnod o chwe blynedd. Ar yr un pryd, cododd y cyrhaeddiad yng ngraddau A i G o 50 y cant i 89 y cant, sy’n well na’r cyfartaledd yng Nghymru. Nid yw’n syndod mai yn yr ysgol hon y bu’r gwelliant ail fwyaf yn 1999, ac mai hi a oedd wedi gwella fwyaf yn 2000: talwn deyrnged i Ysgol Gyfun Sandfields am hynny.

At the other end of my constituency, Cymer Afan Comprehensive School serves three electoral wards that are among the three most deprived wards in Wales on the index of multiple deprivation, with over 30 per cent of the pupils receiving free school meals. Its five GCSE grades A to C achievement has increased from an average of 26 per cent in 1997-99, to 40 per cent in 2000-02. Not only has Cymer Afan Comprehensive School achieved this, but over the last three years, boys and girls are running neck and neck in terms of their academic achievement. I take particular satisfaction in relation to Cymer Afan Comprehensive School, as I have been a school governor there for the last 15 years. I take this opportunity to pay great tribute to Mr L. Wynn Williams and his staff at the school who have turned around the negative expectations that have damned our children for so long. Equally, I pay tribute to Mr Paul Russell and his staff at Sandfields Comprehensive School.

Ym mhen arall fy etholaeth, mae Ysgol Gyfun Cymer Afan yn gwasanaethu tair ward etholiadol sydd ymysg y tair ward fwyaf difreintiedig yng Nghymru yn y mynegai amlamddifadedd, lle y mae dros 30 y cant o’r disgyblion yn cael prydau ysgol am ddim. Mae ei chyflawniad o ran sicrhau pum TGAU ar raddau A i C wedi codi o gyfartaledd o 26 y cant yn 1997-99, i 40 y cant yn 2000-02. Nid yn unig y mae Ysgol Gyfun Cymer Afan wedi cyflawni hynny, ond dros y tair blynedd diwethaf, mae bechgyn a merched yn gyfartal o ran eu cyflawniad academaidd. Yr wyf yn arbennig o falch o Ysgol Gyfun Cymer Afan, gan fy mod yn llywodraethwr ysgol yno ers 15 mlynedd. Achubaf ar y cyfle hwn i dalu teyrnged fawr i Mr L. Wynn Williams a’i staff yn yr ysgol sydd wedi trawsnewid y disgwyliadau negyddol sydd wedi gwneud cam â’n plant cyhyd. Talaf deyrnged hefyd i Mr Paul Russell a’i staff yn Ysgol Gyfun Sandfields.

A key message from these schools is that if they have the vision, the ambition and the good practice, they will deliver. I reject the view that is, in part, in Plaid Cymru’s amendment 3 that we need some sort of second class, milk and water second option for kids who live in these areas. These children need the best expectations and we need to deliver the best for them.

Un neges allweddol gan yr ysgolion hyn yw y gallant fynd â’r maen i’r wal os ydynt yn meddu ar weledigaeth, uchelgais ac arfer da. Gwrthodaf y farn a geir, yn rhannol, yng ngwelliant 3 Plaid Cymru bod arnom angen rhyw fath o ddewis glastwraidd ail orau i blant sy’n byw yn yr ardaloedd hyn. Mae ar y plant hyn angen y disgwyliadau mwyaf a rhaid inni ddarparu’r gorau ar eu cyfer.

The ‘Narrowing the Gap in the Performance of Schools’ report makes the important point that we need resources to continue to deliver on this improvement, particularly in schools such as Cymer Afan Comprehensive School, in the upper Afan valley where there is a declining population. The ability of these schools to continue to deliver the high-class education that children deserve for the future will depend on a guaranteed funding stream. It makes my blood boil that when schools such as Sandfields comprehensive and those in the upper Afan valley make great achievements, we are told that this is due to declining standards, and that somehow it is the natural order of things that kids in the poorest parts of Wales must accept poor education and we expect poor results from them. This is a clear example of where determination and commitment by the school and the local education authority will deliver better for our children.

Mae’r adroddiad ‘Cau’r Bwlch ym Mherfformiad Ysgolion’ yn gwneud pwynt pwysig i’r perwyl bod arnom angen adnoddau i barhau â’r gwelliant hwn, yn enwedig mewn ysgolion fel Ysgol Gyfun Cymer Afan, yng nghwm Afan uchaf lle y mae’r boblogaeth yn lleihau. Bydd gallu’r ysgolion hyn i barhau i ddarparu’r addysg dda y mae plant yn ei haeddu ar gyfer y dyfodol yn dibynnu ar lif ariannu gwarantedig. Bydd fy ngwaed yn berwi pan ddywedir wrthym mai’r rheswm dros y cyflawniadau mawr gan ysgolion fel Ysgol Gyfun Sandfields a’r rhai yng nghwm Afan uchaf, yw gostyngiad mewn safonau, a’i bod yn naturiol rywsut i blant yn rhannau tlotaf Cymru dderbyn addysg wael ac y dylem ddisgwyl canlyniadau gwael ganddynt. Mae hon yn enghraifft amlwg o’r modd y bydd penderfyniad ac ymroddiad yr ysgol a’r awdurdod addysg lleol yn cyflawni pethau gwell dros ein plant.

David Davies spoken in English p. 90

David Davies siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 90

I had a meeting recently with the head of the National Association of Schoolmasters and Union of Women Teachers in south-east Wales. What he told me was quite shocking, namely that the biggest problem in education today is not a lack of funding—although that is a problem—but a lack of discipline. That is what drives so many teachers to leave the profession. However, it is not only the teachers suffering as a result of this; those who suffer most are the fellow pupils of the children who misbehave in class, those who want to get on and do their work. They are unable to achieve what they should be achieving because their work is disrupted by a small minority. That teacher told me that he spends approximately 80 per cent of his time trying to deal with about 5 per cent of the classroom. This happens much more in what are termed ‘socially deprived areas’—the poorer areas. Intelligent kids from poorer areas, with poorer backgrounds, are not getting on because they are being held back in the classroom. This is a national disgrace and we should all turn our minds to it. We are also failing the children who are termed as ‘disengaged’, those who teachers sometimes refer to as the ‘yobs’—I am afraid that that is the sort of language that they use in private. These children are getting locked into a vicious circle. As they go through their school life, they become aware that others around them are achieving much more and the only way to raise their sense of self-esteem is to mess around in the classroom and draw attention to themselves by misbehaving. The cycle gets worse because their education suffers, and they find that they have to do more and more to misbehave and draw attention to themselves.

Cefais gyfarfod yn ddiweddar â phennaeth Cymdeithas Genedlaethol yr Ysgolfeistri ac Undeb yr Athrawesau yn y De-ddwyrain. Yr oedd yr hyn a ddywedodd wrthyf yn eithaf syfrdanol, sef nad diffyg cyllid yw’r broblem fwyaf mewn addysg heddiw—er bod hynny’n broblem—ond diffyg disgyblaeth. Hynny sy’n cymell cynifer o athrawon i adael y proffesiwn. Fodd bynnag, nid yr athrawon yn unig sy’n dioddef o ganlyniad i hyn; y rhai sy’n dioddef fwyaf yw cyd-ddisgyblion y plant sy’n camymddwyn yn y dosbarth, y rhai sydd am fwrw ymlaen â’u gwaith. Ni allant gyflawni’r hyn y dylent ei gyflawni am fod lleiafrif bychan yn amharu ar eu gwaith. Dywedodd yr athro hwnnw wrthyf ei fod yn treulio bron 80 y cant o’i amser yn ceisio delio â thua 5 y cant o’r disgyblion yn y dosbarth. Mae hyn yn digwydd yn amlach o lawer yn yr ardaloedd a elwir yn rhai ‘cymdeithasol ddifreintiedig’—yr ardaloedd tlotach. Nid yw plant deallus o’r ardaloedd tlotach, o gefndiroedd tlotach, yn gwneud cynnydd am eu bod yn cael eu dal yn ôl yn yr ystafell ddosbarth. Mae hyn yn gywilydd i’r wlad a dylem oll droi ein meddwl ato. Yr ydym hefyd yn siomi’r plant a elwir yn rhai ‘ymddieithriedig’, y rhai y mae athrawon yn eu galw weithiau’n ‘iob’—mae arnaf ofn mai geiriau o’r fath a ddefnyddiant yn breifat. Caiff y plant hyn eu cau mewn cylch dieflig. Wrth iddynt fynd drwy eu bywyd ysgol, sylweddolant fod eraill o’u cwmpas yn cyflawni mwy a’r unig fodd i gynyddu eu hymdeimlad o hunan-barch yw lolian yn yr ystafell ddosbarth a thynnu sylw atynt eu hunain drwy gamymddwyn. Mae’r cylch yn gwaethygu am fod eu haddysg yn dioddef, a chânt eu bod yn gorfod camymddwyn fwyfwy i dynnu sylw atynt eu hunain.

We must try to break this cycle. There are two ways in which we can do it. The first is by using discipline. I know that this is an old-fashioned word and many Members probably do not like to hear it, but we are doing these kids no favours by failing to enforce any standard of discipline upon them. My next door neighbour is a teacher who taught in an inner-London comprehensive where it was normal for the kids to tell her to ‘eff off’ when she arrived in the morning. I did not witness that sort of behaviour when I was in school, but it is quite normal now in some situations, and there was nothing that she could do about it. Teachers cannot even send the kids out of the classroom because if they fall over and break their ankle on their own shoelaces, the school becomes liable for it. There is no discipline at all. When sanctions are used, teachers are not backed up by the parents. There was an article in the paper yesterday about a child who was extremely disruptive and was put into a ‘chill-out room’ for five minutes, and, as a result, all sorts of complaints were made to the school. Another problem is that when teachers try to rebuke a disruptive child, the parents will verbally, if not physically, abuse the teachers. Teachers do not receive the support they deserve. We should make it a priority for local education authorities to prosecute any parent who attacks a teacher.

Rhaid inni geisio torri’r cylch hwn. Mae dau fodd inni allu gwneud hynny. Y cyntaf yw drwy ddefnyddio disgyblaeth. Gwn mai gair hen-ffasiwn yw hwn ac mae’n debyg nad yw llawer o Aelodau yn hoffi ei glywed, ond nid ydym yn gwneud cymwynas o gwbl â’r plant hyn drwy fethu â gorfodi unrhyw safon o ddisgyblaeth arnynt. Mae fy nghymdoges drws nesaf yn athrawes a fu’n dysgu mewn ysgol gyfun yng nghanol Llundain lle’r oedd yn arferol i’r plant ddweud wrthi am ‘fynd i’r diawl’ pan gyrhaeddai yn y bore. Ni welais i ymddygiad o’r fath pan oeddwn i yn yr ysgol, ond mae’n eithaf arferol bellach mewn rhai sefyllfaoedd, ac nid oedd dim y gallai’i wneud yn ei gylch. Nid yw athrawon hyd yn oed yn gallu anfon plant o’r ystafell ddosbarth oherwydd os baglant dros eu careiau a thorri eu ffêr, yr ysgol fydd yn atebol am hynny. Nid oes disgyblaeth o gwbl. Pan ddefnyddir sancsiynau, ni chaff athrawon gefnogaeth y rhieni. Yr oedd erthygl yn y papur newydd ddoe am blentyn hynod drafferthus a roddwyd mewn ‘ystafell oeri’ am bum munud, ac, o ganlyniad i hynny, gwnaed pob math o gwynion yn erbyn yr ysgol. Problem arall yw y bydd rhieni’n cam-drin athrawon, mewn geiriau os nad yn gorfforol, os ydynt yn ceisio ceryddu plentyn trafferthus. Nid yw athrawon yn cael y gefnogaeth y maent yn ei haeddu. Dylem ei gwneud yn flaenoriaeth i awdurdodau addysg lleol erlyn unrhyw riant sy’n ymosod ar athro.

However, in addition to a stick we need a carrot—and I use the analogy guardedly. The point that was made earlier is that the national curriculum is too prescriptive and does not take the needs of the individual child into account. Why not tailor education for non-academic children and give them an education from which they can gain something?

Fodd bynnag, yn ogystal â’r ffon, mae arnom angen abwyd—a defnyddiaf y gyfatebiaeth yn ofalus. Y pwynt a wnaed yn gynharach yw bod y cwricwlwm cenedlaethol yn rhy orchmynnol ac nad yw’n ystyried anghenion y plentyn unigol. Pam na ddylid addasu addysg ar gyfer plant anacademaidd a rhoi addysg iddynt y gallant gael rhywbeth ohoni?

Ron Davies spoken in English p. 92

Ron Davies siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 92

I listened with great interest to your call for discipline. You made a powerful case that something should be done but you did not tell us what you wanted done. Can you enlighten us?

Gwrandewais â chryn ddiddordeb ar eich apêl am ddisgyblaeth. Gwnaethoch gyflwyno dadl gref dros wneud rhywbeth ond ni ddywedasoch wrthym beth yr oeddech am iddo gael ei wneud. A allwch ein goleuo?

David Davies spoken in English p. 92

David Davies siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 92

I have said that it would be a good idea to reintroduce the cane in some instances. If teachers want to exclude children from classes, they should be able to do so. I also said that if teachers take any action against children, they should be backed up by the headteacher, governors and the Government; that does not happen at the moment.

Yr wyf wedi dweud y byddai’n syniad da ailgyflwyno’r gansen mewn rhai achosion. Os yw athrawon am wahardd plant o ddosbarthiadau, dylent gael gwneud hynny. Dywedais hefyd, os yw athrawon yn cymryd unrhyw gamau yn erbyn plant, y dylent gael eu cefnogi gan bennaeth yr ysgol, y llywodraethwyr a’r Llywodraeth; nid yw hynny’n digwydd ar hyn o bryd.

Ron Davies spoken in English p. 92

Ron Davies siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 92

You think these matters through seriously and I want to engage you in the debate. However, do you think that inflicting physical punishment on 15-year-olds, who are disorientated and disengaged given their backgrounds and sense of frustration at school, would ensure that they came to school the next day with an entirely different attitude?

Yr ydych yn ystyried y materion hyn yn fanwl ac o ddifrif ac yr wyf am eich cynnwys yn y ddadl. Fodd bynnag, a ydych yn credu y byddai rhoi cosb gorfforol i rai 15 mlwydd oed, sydd wedi colli cyfeiriad ac ymddieithrio oherwydd eu cefndir a’u rhwystredigaeth yn yr ysgol, yn sicrhau y deuent i’r ysgol drannoeth a’u hagwedd wedi newid yn llwyr?

David Davies spoken in English p. 92

David Davies siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 92

No, it would not work in that instance. It would work on younger children, but not at that stage. If you took such children out of the academic curriculum and gave them practical skills—[AN ASSEMBLY MEMBER: ‘We are doing that.’] I welcome that, but you have to do more. You could put them in the workplace at a younger age—even as young as 14. You could start to build on proper apprenticeship sources. However, not enough of this is being done at the moment. We currently have a rigid academic system. If we started to change that, we would raise their sense of self-esteem, which would lead to an improvement in their behaviour. However, that will only happen in some cases.

Nac ydwyf, ni fyddai’n gweithio yn yr achos hwnnw. Byddai’n gweithio yn achos plant iau, ond nid yn y cyfnod hwnnw. Pe byddech yn mynd â phlant o’r fath o’r cwricwlwm academaidd ac yn dysgu sgiliau ymarferol iddynt—[AELOD CYNULLIAD: ‘Yr ydym yn gwneud hynny.’] Croesawaf hynny, ond rhaid ichi wneud rhagor. Gallech eu rhoi yn y gweithle pan ydynt yn iau—cyn ieuenged â 14 oed hyd yn oed. Gallech ddechrau adeiladu ar sail ffynonellau prentisiaeth priodol. Fodd bynnag, ni wneir digon o hynny ar hyn o bryd. Mae gennym system academaidd anhyblyg. Pe dechreuem newid hynny, byddem yn meithrin mwy o hunan-barch ynddynt, a fyddai’n peri i’w hymddygiad wella. Fodd bynnag, dim ond mewn rhai achosion y digwydd hynny.

We have heard warm words from the Minister, but if we are serious about raising educational standards and engaging the disengaged—I hate these politically correct terms, but I suppose we must use them in this arena—then we need more than words; we need practical solutions.

Clywsom eiriau dymunol gan y Gweinidog, ond os ydym o ddifrif ynghylch codi safonau addysgol a chynnwys y rhai ymddieithriedig—mae’n gas gennyf y geiriau gwleidyddol gywir hyn, ond mae’n debyg bod yn rhaid inni eu defnyddio yn y maes hwn—rhaid inni gael mwy na geiriau; mae arnom angen atebion ymarferol.

Mick Bates spoken in English p. 93

Mick Bates siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 93

The Welsh Liberal Democrats welcome this debate and the basis of ‘The Learning Country’ from which it stems. However, there are great challenges ahead and I am sure that we all share a desire to see a reduction in disengagement and disaffection.

Mae Democratiaid Rhyddfrydol Cymru yn croesawu’r ddadl hon a sylfaen ‘Y Wlad sy’n Dysgu’ y mae’n deillio ohoni. Fodd bynnag, mae heriau mawr o’n blaen ac yr wyf yn sicr mai awydd pob un ohonom yw gweld llai o ymddieithrio ac anniddigrwydd.

I will approach this from two angles. First, I will consider why we have an interest in this subject, which I will approach from the individual perspective and the teacher’s perspective in the classroom. To demonstrate clearly why the individual perspective is so important, I will quote a figure that backs up the first priority for the individual, namely early intervention to ensure that individuals are given the support that they deserve. There is an example in a report entitled ‘Pricing Socio-economic Alienation’, where an investment of £12,000 for support in those early years, which was not forthcoming, resulted in a cost of £150,000 for this individual. These figures are the result of a Barnardo’s project. That is the cost of the lack of support to counteract disaffection at an early age.

Deuaf at hyn o ddau gyfeiriad. Yn gyntaf, ystyriaf pam yr ydym yn ymddiddori yn y pwnc hwn, y gwnaf ei drafod o safbwynt yr unigolyn a safbwynt yr athro yn yr ystafell ddosbarth. Er mwyn dangos yn glir pam y mae safbwynt yr unigolyn mor bwysig, dyfynnaf ffigur sy’n dangos yr hyn sy’n bwysicaf i’r unigolyn, sef ymyriad cynnar i sicrhau bod unigolion yn cael y cymorth y maent yn ei haeddu. Ceir enghraifft mewn adroddiad o’r enw ‘Pricing Socio-economic Alienation’, lle’r oedd buddsoddiad o £12,000 am gymorth yn y blynyddoedd cynnar hynny, nas cafwyd, wedi arwain at gost o £150,000 i’r unigolyn hwnnw. Mae’r ffigurau hynny’n deillio o brosiect gan Barnardos. Dyna gost y diffyg cymorth i wrthweithio anniddigrwydd mewn oedran cynnar.

Further to that, we must ensure that these challenges are met by integrating educational policies with social care policies. On David Davies’s comments on corporal punishment, particularly when Ron Davies questioned him, we need to accept that there are severe social problems that cannot be answered in isolation in the classroom. We must ensure that individuals are given support. I praise the Sure Start programme, which offers such support to pre-school children. The holistic thinking emerging from the Assembly should be welcomed because without it we cannot add value to people’s lives.

Ymhellach i hynny, rhaid inni sicrhau y ceir ateb i’r heriau hyn drwy integreiddio polisïau addysgol a pholisïau gofal cymdeithasol. Ynghylch sylwadau David Davies am gosb gorfforol, yn enwedig pan wnaeth Ron Davies ei gwestiynu, rhaid inni dderbyn bod problemau cymdeithasol difrifol na ellir eu datrys ar wahân yn yr ystafell ddosbarth. Rhaid inni sicrhau bod unigolion yn cael cymorth. Canmolaf y rhaglen Cychwyn Cadarn, sy’n cynnig cymorth o’r fath i blant cyn-ysgol. Dylid croesawu’r meddwl cyfannol sy’n deillio o’r Cynulliad oherwydd, heb hynny, ni allwn ychwanegu gwerth at fywydau pobl.

On models for dealing with disaffection, I would like to hear the Minister’s views on taking a Steiner, child-centred approach for those people who are disaffected in the classroom. We have a great deal to learn from non-mainstream methods of teaching such as the Steiner methods. They have a valuable contribution to make towards helping us deal with disaffection.

Ynghylch modelau i ddelio ag ymddieithriad, carwn glywed barn y Gweinidog am gymryd agwedd blentyn-ganolog yn null Steiner at y bobl hynny sydd wedi ymddieithrio yn yr ystafell ddosbarth. Mae gennym lawer i’w ddysgu oddi wrth ddulliau dysgu y tu allan i’r brif ffrwd fel dulliau Steiner. Gallant wneud cyfraniad gwerthfawr tuag at ein helpu i ymdrin ag anniddigrwydd.

On the effectiveness of classroom teaching and how disengagement and disaffection impacts on this, again previous speakers mentioned individual teachers’ lives being made hell by a disruptive pupil. That is why we need that extra co-ordination between social services and schools, whether those social services units are based at a particular location, or within the school itself. We must consult further with teaching bodies to ensure that all authorities answer the needs of the teacher, who is in many cases crying out for help in the classroom because of disruption.

Ynghylch effeithiolrwydd yr addysgu yn yr ystafell ddosbarth ac effaith ymddieithrio ac anniddigrwydd ar hynny, unwaith eto mae siaradwyr blaenorol wedi sôn am ddisgyblion trafferthus yn troi bywydau athrawon yn uffern. Dyna pam y mae arnom angen y cyd-drefnu ychwanegol hwnnw rhwng gwasanaethau cymdeithasol ac ysgolion, boed yr unedau gwasanaethau cymdeithasol hynny mewn man penodol, neu yn yr ysgolion eu hun. Rhaid inni ymgynghori ymhellach â chyrff athrawon i sicrhau bod yr holl awdurdodau’n bodloni anghenion yr athro sydd, mewn llawer o achosion, yn gweiddi am gymorth yn yr ystafell ddosbarth oherwydd aflonyddu.

I have watched ‘circle time’ operate in many schools. Often, breakdown of communication causes this great sense of disengagement between the institution and the individual. We must encourage the use of communication skills. Some of you will be aware of ‘circle time’, where pupils are encouraged to communicate, feel a part of the school, included in the education process and less disengaged. To enhance that—and this is why I was surprised by some of Plaid Cymru’s comments—the Welsh baccalaureate pilot scheme has been introduced to ensure that we offer greater flexibility within the constraints of the current school curriculum. The Welsh baccalaureate will grow to be the envy of all authorities and other countries in the UK. It offers the flexibility afforded by vocational skills, and ensures that community service can be part of education for 16 to 19-year-olds. That is how to give people their place in the school curriculum.

Yr wyf wedi gweld ‘amseroedd cylch’ ar waith mewn llawer o ysgolion. Yn aml, mae methiant mewn cyfathrebu’n peri ymdeimlad cryf o ymddieithriad rhwng y sefydliad a’r unigolyn. Rhaid inni hybu’r defnydd o sgiliau cyfathrebu. Bydd rhai ohonoch yn gyfarwydd ag ‘amseroedd cylch’, lle y caiff disgyblion eu hannog i gyfathrebu, i deimlo eu bod yn rhan o’r ysgol, eu bod wedi’u cynnwys yn y broses addysg ac yn llai ymddieithriedig. Er mwyn hyrwyddo hynny—a dyma pam y cefais fy synnu gan rai o sylwadau Plaid Cymru—y cyflwynwyd cynllun peiolt y fagloriaeth Gymreig er mwyn sicrhau ein bod yn cynnig mwy o hyblygrwydd o fewn cyfyngiadau’r cwricwlwm ysgol presennol. Bydd y fagloriaeth Gymreig yn datblygu nes ei bod yn destun cenfigen i bob awdurdod ac i wledydd eraill yn y DU. Mae’n cynnig y math o hyblygrwydd a geir drwy sgiliau galwedigaethol, ac yn sicrhau y gall gwasanaeth cymunedol fod yn rhan o’r addysg i rai 16 i 19 mlwydd oed. Felly y rhoddir lle i bobl yn y cwricwlwm ysgol.

Jonathan Morgan spoken in English p. 94

Jonathan Morgan siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 94

You and the Minister have often said that the Welsh baccalaureate is a great scheme, which will develop into a great qualification. It was only the Welsh Joint Education Committee that put in a bid to pilot the scheme—nobody else wanted to do so. Why was that?

Yr ydych chi a’r Gweinidog wedi dweud yn aml fod y fagloriaeth Gymreig yn gynllun gwych, a fydd yn datblygu’n gymhwyster gwych. Dim ond Cyd-bwyllgor Addysg Cymru a wnaeth gais am ragbrofi’r cynllun—nid oedd neb arall am wneud. Pam yr oedd hynny?

Mick Bates spoken in English p. 95

Mick Bates siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 95

I am grateful that it did. The bodies that criticised it had the opportunity to tender for it, but chose not to. You know as well as I do, Jonathan, that the pilot schools have accepted this, and that we await the result. Listen to the comments of your colleague, David Davies, about the flexibility needed to cater for people who have become disengaged. What better way of catering for that age group than by offering vocational courses, community service, and so on. You cannot demand flexibility on the one hand and then turn your back on the very project that will give it—

Yr wyf yn ddiolchgar iddo am wneud. Yr oedd y cyrff a’i beirniadodd wedi cael cyfle i dendro amdani, ond gwnaethant ddewis peidio. Gwyddoch gystal â minnau, Jonathan, fod yr ysgolion peilot wedi derbyn hyn, a’n bod yn disgwyl y canlyniad. Gwrandewch ar sylwadau’ch cyd-Aelod, David Davies, am yr hyblygrwydd sydd ei angen i ddarparu ar gyfer rhai sydd wedi ymddieithrio. Pa ffordd well o ddarparu ar gyfer y grŵp oedran hwnnw na chynnig cyrsiau galwedigaethol, gwasanaeth cymunedol, ac yn y blaen. Ni allwch fynnu hyblygrwydd ar y naill law ac wedyn troi’ch cefn ar yr union brosiect a fydd yn ei roi—

David Davies spoken in English p. 95

David Davies siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 95

You do not need a national baccalaureate to deliver flexibility; you can provide that by changing the curriculum.

Nid oes rhaid cael bagloriaeth genedlaethol i roi hyblygrwydd; gallwch wneud hynny drwy newid y cwricwlwm.

Mick Bates spoken in English p. 95

Mick Bates siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 95

That is what we are doing; you should understand that. With these moves, and the greater use of alternative methods to deal with disaffected pupils, we can create an atmosphere in which some teachers’ lives are made easier by counteracting disaffection and disengagement.

Dyna’r hyn yr ydym yn ei wneud; dylech ddeall hynny. Drwy’r camau hyn, a mwy o ddefnydd o ddulliau eraill i ddelio â disgyblion sydd wedi ymddieithrio, gallwn greu awyrgylch lle y gwneir bywydau rhai athrawon yn haws drwy wrthweithio anniddigrwydd ac ymddieithriad.

Gareth Jones siaradwyd yn Gymraeg t. 95

Gareth Jones spoken in Welsh p. 95

Y cwestiwn anodd i’w ateb, ond yr un y dylem geisio ei ateb, yw beth sy’n achosi dieithrio. Mae gwelliant 2 Plaid Cymru yn gofyn inni ystyried y cwricwlwm, ac yn ein hatgoffa bod ansawdd rhaglenni astudiaeth bob amser yn bwysig. Gallant greu hapusrwydd neu anhapusrwydd, bodlonrwydd neu anfodlonrwydd, fel y’n hatgoffwyd gan Val Lloyd a Cynog Dafis y prynhawn yma. Yn yr un modd, gall asesu a gorbwysleisio llwyddiannau rhai unigolion, ac o ganlyniad, fethiannau rhai eraill, hefyd fod yn ffactor allweddol sy’n cyfranu at y dieithrio. Yr wyf yn siomedig nad yw’r Gweinidog am gefnogi ein gwelliannau.

The difficult question to answer, but the one that we should try to answer, is what causes disengagement. Plaid Cymru’s amendment 2 asks us to consider the curriculum and reminds us that the quality of study programmes is always important. They can create joy or misery, contentment or dissaffection, as Val Lloyd and Cynog Dafis reminded us this afternoon. In the same way, assessing and overemphasising the success of some individuals and, as a result, the failures of others, can also be a key factor in contributing to disengagement. I am disappointed that the Minister will not support our amendments.

Os yw unrhyw lywodraeth am fynd i’r afael o ddifrif â lleihau dieithrio, rhaid iddi ystyried cefndir ac amgylchiadau teuluol disgyblion. Clywsom gyfeiriad at hynny eisoes gan Jonathan Morgan. Mae’r berthynas honno rhwng y plentyn a’i deulu yn allweddol, ac mae amgylchiadau cymunedol ehangach, megis cyflogaeth a chyflogau hefyd yn dylanwadu ar y berthynas honno. Gwyddom fod ystadegau tlodi yng Nghymru yn arswydus, gyda thraean plant Cymru yn byw mewn tlodi dan Lywodraeth Lafur/ Democratiaid Rhyddfrydol. Mae’r cynnydd yn lefel anweithgaredd economaidd Cymru—5 y cant ers i’r Llywodraeth Lafur ddod i rym—ddwbl y cynnydd yng ngweddill y Deyrnas Gyfunol. Ers 1999, bu cynnydd o 22,000 yn nifer y bobl ifanc 16 i 24 oed yng Nghymru sy’n anweithgar yn economaidd—eto o dan Lywodraeth Lafur â’i chynffon Ryddfrydol Ddemocrataidd. Yn y pedair blynedd diwethaf, mae lefel cyflogau yng Nghymru wedi gostwng o 89 y cant i 86 y cant o gyfartaledd lefel cyflogau’r Deyrnas Gyfunol. Mae ystadegau o’r fath yn trosi i anobaith, diffyg hyder a thlodi. Gallant hefyd greu ymdeimlad o fethiant mewn rhieni a fydd, yn ei dro, yn effeithio ar fywyd ac ymagwedd eu plant ac, o ganlyniad, yn cyfrannu at ddieithrio. Yr wyf yn siŵr bod pob Aelod yn deall hynny. Dylai Llywodraeth y Cynulliad gydnabod mai adfywiad economaidd gwirioneddol yw’r unig ffordd i atal ymddieithrio ar bob lefel, o’r crud i’r bedd.

If any government wants to seriously get to grips with reducing disengagement, it must consider pupils’ background and family circumstances. We have already heard Jonathan Morgan refer to that. The relationship between a child and its family is vital, and other wider social circumstances, such as employment and salaries also influence that relationship. We know that poverty statistics in Wales are appalling, with one third of children in Wales living in poverty under a Labour/Liberal Democrat Government. The increase in the level of economic inactivity in Wales—5 per cent since the Labour Government came into power—is double the increase in the rest of the United Kingdom. Since 1999, there has been an increase of 22,000 in the number of young people between the ages of 16 and 24 who are economically inactive—this is again under a Labour Government with its Liberal Democrat tail. In the last four years, the salary level in Wales has fallen from 89 per cent to 86 per cent of the average UK salary level. Such statistics translate into despair, lack of confidence and poverty. They can also create a feeling of failure in parents that will, in turn, have an effect on their children’s lives and attitudes and will, as a result, contribute towards disengagement. I am sure that all Members understand that. The Assembly Government should recognise that genuine economic regeneration is the only way to prevent disengagement at all levels, from the cradle to the grave.

A bwrw na allwn drawsnewid yr economi dros nos, dylem, yn y cyfamser, roi llawer mwy o sylw i ddwy berthynas allweddol sef y berthynas rhwng plentyn a’i athro neu ei athrawes, a’r berthynas rhwng disgyblion. Ceir cyfeiriadau at hyn o fewn mentrau’r Llywodraeth a restrwyd eisoes, ond mae’r cyfeiriadau hynny’n arwynebol ac yn ddiargyhoeddiad. Rhaid rhoi llawer mwy o ystyriaeth a chefnogaeth i’n hathrawon yn y dosbarth a’r tu allan wrth iddynt geisio cynnal diddordeb disgyblion a’u rhwystro rhag ymddiethrio. Rhaid hefyd sicrhau bod gan ein hysgolion adnoddau digonol i leihau un o brif achosion dieithrio, sef bwlian. Nid drwy lunio polisïau a chyfeirio problemau a ddaw yn sgîl bwlian, megis triwantiaeth, i asiantaethau allanol yn unig y gellir datrys hyn. Mae athrawon yn ymwybodol o broblemau disgyblion ond oherwydd gofynion gorlwythog y cwricwlwm ac asesu, a’r fiwrocratiaeth sydd ynghlwm â hwy, yn aml ni chânt gyfle i helpu disgyblion, gan roi sylw digonol a chefnogaeth iddynt, ac nid oes ganddynt yr adnoddau i gefnogi’r gwaith hwnnw. Oherwydd gofynion gormodol y system, mae’r union bobl sydd â’r gallu i fynd i’r afael â dieithrio a’i ddatrys yn methu â gwneud hynny ac yn methu â gwneud cyfiawnder â’r angen. Nid bai athrawon yw hynny, ond bai y system a threfnyddiaeth ysgolion. Rhaid newid hynny.

If we accept that we cannot transform the economy overnight, we should, in the meantime, pay much more attention to two key relationships, namely the relationship between pupil and teacher and the relationship between pupils. Government initiatives that have already been listed mention this, but those references are superficial and unconvincing. Much more consideration and support must be given to our teachers, in the classroom and outside it, as they try to maintain pupils’ interest and prevent them from becoming disengaged. We must also ensure that our schools have sufficient resources to reduce bullying, which is one of the main causes of disengagement. This cannot be solved simply by making policy and referring problems, such as truancy, which occur as a result of bullying to outside agencies. Teachers are aware of pupils’ problems but, because of the excessive requirements of the curriculum and assessment, and the accompanying bureaucracy, they often do not have an opportunity to help pupils by paying them adequate attention and supporting them, and they do not have the resources to support that work. As a result of the excessive requirements of the system, the very people who can tackle the problem of disengagement and solve it cannot do so and cannot respond to pupils’ needs. That is not the fault of teachers, but the fault of the system and organisation in schools. That must be changed.

I gloi, hoffwn i Lywodraeth y Cynulliad roi llawer mwy o sylw i wreiddiau’r broblem o ddieithrio a rhoi llawer mwy o gefnogaeth i’n hathrawon wrth iddynt geisio ymdopi ag anghenion dwys disgyblion unigol. Hoffwn iddi hefyd gefnogi gwelliannau Plaid Cymru fel arwydd pendant o’i bwriad yn hyn o beth ond, yn anffodus, mae hynny’n annhebygol.

In closing, I would like the Assembly Government to pay much more attention to the roots of the problem of disengagement and give much more support to our teachers as they attempt to deal with the very pressing needs of individual pupils. I would also like it to support Plaid Cymru’s amendments as a clear sign of its intentions on this but, unfortunately, that is unlikely.

Eleanor Burnham spoken in English p. 97

Eleanor Burnham siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 97

I commend the Minister’s efforts. I also commend the hard work undertaken in schools throughout Wales, including in St Christopher’s School in Wrexham, which caters for pupils will all types of learning difficulties. I was thrilled to visit the school and witness the hard work undertaken there. Disengagement or disaffection is a major threat to our vision of an inclusive and prosperous Wales today and in the future. As a former teacher of disaffected youth in north Wales, I could recite some hair-raising stories. I will not detain you too long, although I could be here all day. I am therefore aware of the issues discussed during this debate.

Cymeradwyaf ymdrechion y Gweinidog. Yr wyf hefyd yn canmol y gwaith caled a wnaed mewn ysgolion ledled Cymru, gan gynnwys Ysgol Sant Christopher yn Wrecsam, sy’n darparu ar gyfer plant sydd â phob math o anawsterau dysgu. Yr oeddwn wrth fy modd yn ymweld â’r ysgol a gweld y gwaith caled a wneir yno. Mae ymddieithriad neu anniddigrwydd yn fygythiad mawr i’n gweledigaeth o Gymru gynhwysol a ffyniannus heddiw ac yn y dyfodol. Fel cyn-athrawes pobl ifanc anniddig yn y Gogledd, gallwn adrodd hanesion a fyddai’n codi gwallt eich pen. Ni’ch cadwaf yn rhy hir, er y gallwn fod yma drwy’r dydd. Felly yr wyf yn ymwybodol o’r materion a drafodwyd yn ystod y ddadl hon.

Liberating individuals to participate in, and contribute to, society is the cornerstone of the Welsh Liberal Democrats’ philosophy. Moreover, our achievements within the partnership Government—such as decreasing class sizes, scrapping tests for seven-year-olds and placing more focus on teaching individual pupils, rather than forcing the curriculum on pupils—have made a great difference. However, we must not rest on our laurels. I hope that the Minister will assure me that there will be greater financial support for special educational needs provision, so that we can address underachievement that can lead to disengagement, thus nipping it in the bud. For too long, special educational needs provision has been a grossly undervalued cinderella service in Welsh-medium and English-medium schools. We need a much more flexible curriculum that can accommodate a range of difficulties, including pupils who have low boredom thresholds, or whatever you want to call it—there are many other technical and medical terms for it. The curriculum must be much more interesting and engaging, and much more appropriate to pupils’ lives, whether it is delivered in a classroom setting or otherwise.

Rhyddhau unigolion i gymryd rhan mewn cymdeithas a chyfrannu iddi yw conglfaen athroniaeth Democratiaid Rhyddfrydol Cymru. At hynny, mae ein cyflawniadau o fewn y Llywodraeth bartneriaeth—fel lleihau maint dosbarthiadau, cael gwared ar brofion i rai saith mlwydd oed a chanolbwyntio’n fwy ar ddysgu disgyblion unigol, yn hytrach na gorfodi’r cwricwlwm ar ddisgyblion—wedi gwneud gwahaniaeth mawr. Fodd bynnag, rhaid inni beidio â gorffwys ar ein rhwyfau. Gobeithiaf y bydd y Gweinidog yn fy sicrhau y bydd llawer mwy o gymorth ariannol ar gyfer darpariaeth anghenion addysgol arbennig, fel y gallwn ymdrin â thangyrhaeddiad sy’n gallu arwain at ymddieithrio, gan ei ladd yn yr egin. Mae’r ddarpariaeth anghenion addysgol arbennig yn wasanaeth eilradd sydd wedi’i danbrisio’n ddirfawr llawer yn rhy hir mewn ysgolion cyfrwng Cymraeg a chyfrwng Saesneg. Mae angen cwricwlwm mwy hyblyg o lawer arnom sy’n gallu darparu ar gyfer amryw o anawsterau, gan gynnwys disgyblion sydd â throthwy diflastod isel, neu beth bynnag y mynnwch ei alw—mae llawer o enwau technegol a meddygol eraill amdano. Rhaid i’r cwricwlwm fod yn fwy diddorol a gafaelgar ac yn fwy perthnasol i fywydau disgyblion, pa un a gaiff ei ddarparu mewn ystafell ddosbarth neu fel arall.

Gareth Jones and Peter Rogers rose—

Gareth Jones a Peter Rogers a godasant—

Eleanor Burnham spoken in English p. 98

Eleanor Burnham siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 98

I am not sure who stood first. I give way to Gareth.

Nid wyf yn sicr pwy a safodd yn gyntaf. Ildiaf i Gareth.

Gareth Jones siaradwyd yn Gymraeg t. 98

Gareth Jones spoken in Welsh p. 98

A gefnogwch, felly, welliant 2 Plaid Cymru ar y cwricwlwm?

Will you therefore support Plaid Cymru’s amendment 2 on the curriculum?

Eleanor Burnham spoken in English p. 98

Eleanor Burnham siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 98

You have taken me by surprise, Gareth. I shall continue my speech, and consider your invitation.

Yr ydych wedi fy nal yn annisgwyl, Gareth. Af ymlaen â’m haraith, ac ystyriaf eich gwahoddiad.

We must address the issues that were discussed earlier by the Minister—for instance, those identified by the children’s commissioner. It was interesting that in his report last week, the commissioner briefly discussed respect for pupils, more pupil involvement in school management, as well as arrangements for lavatories, which are crucial. Pupils constantly refer to this because, apart from matters such as their being unclean and having doors that cannot be locked, bullying takes place there. It is a matter of respect for the pupil. If you show respect for the pupil, the pupil, in my small experience, will show much more respect for the teacher. Successfully sorting out this list alone could—

Rhaid inni ymdrin â’r materion a drafodwyd yn gynharach gan y Gweinidog—er enghraifft, y rhai a nodwyd gan y comisiynydd plant. Yr oedd yn ddiddorol bod y comisiynydd, yn ei adroddiad yr wythnos diwethaf, wedi sôn yn fyr am barch at ddisgyblion, mwy o le i ddisgyblion mewn rheoli ysgolion, yn ogystal â threfniadau ar gyfer tai bach, sy’n hollbwysig. Mae disgyblion yn cyfeirio at hyn yn gyson oherwydd, heblaw am faterion fel budreddi a drysau na ellir eu cloi, mae bwlio’n digwydd yno. Mater o barch at y disgybl ydyw. Os dangoswch barch at y disgybl, bydd y disgybl, yn ôl y profiad prin sydd gennyf fi, yn dangos mwy o barch o lawer at yr athro. Byddai datrys y rhestr hon yn unig yn gallu—

John Marek The Deputy Presiding Officer spoken in English p. 98

John Marek Y Dirprwy Lywydd siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 98

Order. Members should not be standing around the Chamber discussing other matters.

Trefn. Ni ddylai Aelodau sefyllian yn y Siambr yn trafod materion eraill.

Eleanor Burnham spoken in English p. 98

Eleanor Burnham siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 98

Thank you, Dirprwy Lywydd. According to the pupils questioned in the commissioner’s report, sorting out that list could ensure enjoyable school days and it would reduce the tendency for many pupils to bunk off school, which can become a difficult habit to break.

Diolch i chi, Ddirprwy Lywydd. Yn ôl y disgyblion a holwyd yn adroddiad y comisiynydd, byddai datrys y rhestr honno’n gallu sicrhau dyddiau ysgol dedwydd a byddai’n lleihau’r duedd mewn llawer o ddisygblion i aros gartref o’r ysgol, a all fod yn arfer anodd ei dorri.

Therefore, I urge you to address these fundamental issues, Minister, to improve the engagement of otherwise lost youth. Huge quantities of money are involved. I was at a meeting recently where a justice of the peace suggested that the cost of one anti-social court order is £50,000—that is £50,000 wasted. Finally, I am sure that you will agree, Minister, that we must ensure sufficient funding. Instead of spending £50,000 on an anti-social order, we should invest it so that all organisations, including voluntary partnerships, which assist in all aspects of family support across Wales, can reduce disaffection and disengagement.

Felly, yr wyf yn eich annog i ymdrin â’r materion sylfaenol hyn, Weinidog, er mwyn cynnwys pobl ifanc a gâi eu colli fel arall. Mae symiau aruthrol o arian dan sylw. Bûm mewn cyfarfod yn ddiweddar lle y gwnaeth ynad heddwch awgrymu mai cost un gorchymyn llys ar gyfer ymddygiad gwrthgymdeithasol yw £50,000—sef £50,000 wedi mynd yn wastraff. Yn olaf, yr wyf yn siŵr y cytunwch, Weinidog, fod rhaid inni sicrhau cyllid digonol. Yn hytrach na gwario £50,000 ar orchymyn ymddygiad gwrthgymdeithasol, dylem ei fuddsoddi fel bod yr holl gyrff, gan gynnwys partneriaethau gwirfoddol, sy’n cynorthwyo ym mhob agwedd ar gymorth i deuluoedd ledled Cymru, yn gallu lleihau anniddigrwydd ac ymddieithriad.

Alun Cairns spoken in English p. 99

Alun Cairns siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 99

Thank you, Dirprwy Lywydd, for giving me the opportunity to contribute in this debate. I appreciate that time is pressing, and I will keep my comments as brief as possible.

Diolch i chi, Ddirprwy Lywydd, am roi cyfle imi gyfrannu i’r ddadl hon. Sylweddolaf fod amser yn brin, a byddaf mor gryno ag y gallaf yn fy sylwadau.

I will speak to amendment 1. There is no doubt that disobedience in schools and the number of assaults against teachers has increased, as has the number of teachers leaving the profession. I firmly believe that there is a correlation there. Headteachers must be given the right to deal with the unruly pupil as they see fit. I cannot understand the Minister’s rationale for and the principle behind having exclusion targets. It ties the hands of the school, of the local education authority, and of the teachers in dealing with unruly pupils.

Siaradaf o blaid gwelliant 1. Nid oes dwywaith nad yw anufudd-dod mewn ysgolion a nifer yr ymosodiadau ar athrawon wedi cynyddu, fel y gwnaeth y nifer o athrawon sy’n gadael y proffesiwn. Credaf yn bendant fod cydberthynas yn hynny o beth. Rhaid rhoi hawl i benaethiaid ysgol ddelio â disgyblion afreolus fel y gwelont orau. Ni allaf ddeall rhesymu’r Gweinidog dros gael targedau ar gyfer gwaharddiadau na’r egwyddor sy’n sail i hynny. Mae’n clymu dwylo’r ysgol, yr awdurdod addysg lleol, a’r athrawon sy’n delio â disgyblion afreolus.

The starting point is that children go to school to be educated, and discipline starts at home. However, discipline needs to be continued at school, and respect towards the discipline process is needed to overcome much of the disobedience that I have mentioned. If a pupil is sufficiently unruly to give rise to a call for exclusion, the school, the governors, the parents and the LEA must be united in dealing with that. David Davies made the point that there should be a commitment to prosecute any perpetrators of assaults, be they by the teachers or by pupils against teachers. That should be followed through in as many cases as possible.

Y man cychwyn yw bod plant yn mynd i’r ysgol i gael addysg, a bod disgyblaeth yn dechrau yn y cartref. Serch hynny, rhaid parhau â disgyblaeth yn yr ysgol, ac mae angen parch at y broses ddisgyblu er mwyn trechu llawer o’r anufudd-dod yr wyf wedi sôn amdano. Os yw disgybl mor afreolus fel bod galw am ei wahardd, rhaid i’r ysgol, y llywodraethwyr, y rhieni a’r AALl fod yn unedig wrth ddelio â hynny. Gwnaeth David Davies y pwynt y dylid ymrwymo i erlyn y sawl sy’n cyflawni ymosodiadau, boed gan yr athrawon neu gan ddisgyblion ar athrawon. Dylid dilyn hynny i’r pen mewn cynifer o achosion ag y bo modd.

The unruly pupil is a victim in this situation, and has become unruly because of the disaffection that has arisen as a result of incidents at home or at school. That unruly child needs specific support. I was disappointed to hear Brian Gibbons say that we are not looking for a second-class option. That brings me to the priority that needs to be given to special educational needs. There are significant gaps in LEA policies, which can clearly be seen in the number of litigation cases against them. The lack of co-operation between LEAs in dealing with special educational needs leaves much to be desired.

Mae’r disgybl afreolus yn dioddef yn y sefyllfa hon, a daeth yn afreolus oherwydd yr ymddieithriad a gododd o ganlyniad i ddigwyddiadau yn y cartref neu’r ysgol. Mae angen cymorth penodol ar y plentyn afreolus hwnnw. Yr oeddwn yn siomedig o glywed Brian Gibbons yn dweud nad ydym yn chwilio am ddewis eilradd. Daw hynny â mi at y flaenoriaeth y dylid ei rhoi i anghenion addysgol arbennig. Mae bylchau mawr ym mholisïau awdurdodau addysg lleol, sy’n amlwg oherwydd nifer yr achosion cyfreithiol yn eu herbyn. Mae diffyg mawr yn y cydweithredu rhwng awdurdodau addysg lleol wrth ddelio ag anghenion addysgol arbennig.

Teachers are not always given the expertise, the training or the resources within mainstream education to deal with the requirements of increasingly specialised educational needs. If she does not act, then the Minister, the Assembly and local education authorities will face the cost of litigation cases brought by the victims of excluded pupils and parents, governors and teachers acting in the interests of all pupils.

Nid yw athrawon bob amser yn cael yr arbenigedd, yr hyfforddiant neu’r adnoddau mewn addysg prif ffrwd i ddelio ag anghenion addysgol sy’n fwyfwy arbenigol. Os na wnaiff weithredu, bydd y Gweinidog, y Cynulliad ac awdurdodau addysg lleol yn wynebu cost achosion cyfreithiol a ddygir gan y rhai sy’n dioddef oherwydd disgyblion a waharddwyd a chan rieni, llywodraethwyr ac athrawon sy’n gweithredu er budd yr holl ddisgyblion.

Geraint Davies siaradwyd yn Gymraeg t. 100

Geraint Davies spoken in Welsh p. 100

Hoffwn bwysleisio pwysigrwydd ymyrryd yn gynnar i rwystro disgyblion rhag ymddieithrio o’r broses addysgol. Mae potensial mawr yng ngwaith grwpiau meithrin sy’n cael eu treialu mewn mannau yng Nghymru. Prif fwriad y grwpiau meithrin hyn yw codi hunan-barch a hunan-hyder, dysgu sgiliau cymdeithasol a lleihau straen emosiynol ar ddisgyblion. Caiff disgyblion y cyfle i dreulio hyd at ddau dymor yn y dosbarthiadau hyn, gyda chymorth cynorthwywyr arbennig, cyn cael eu hail-integreiddio i addysg prif ffrwd. Mae canlyniadau cynnar cynlluniau peilot y grwpiau hyn yn argoeli’n dda. Mae Cyngor Bwrdeistref Sirol Rhondda Cynon Taf wedi adnabod potensial y grwpiau meithrin hyn, gan sefydlu dau ddosbarth yn y sir. Cefais y pleser o weld dosbarth meithrin Ysgol Fabanod Blaenclydach ar waith a gweld y newid er gwell yn y plant. Dyma’r plant sydd fwyaf dan berygl o ymddieithrio o’u haddysg. Mae grwpiau meithrin yn helpu disgyblion i ymdopi. Nid oes yr un digybl o’r grwpiau meithrin wedi ei eithrio ers cychwyn y cynllun. Mae’n hynod bwysig i annog pob awdurdod lleol yn gryf i ledaenu’r arferion da hyn. Yn yr un modd, mae’n hollbwysig ein bod yn gwarchod ac yn hybu’r grwpiau hynny sy’n gweithio ar ben arall y sbectrwm, gyda phlant a phobl ifanc yn eu harddegau sydd, am ba reswm bynnag, heb allu cael y gorau o’u haddysg a’r cyfleoedd a gynigir iddynt. Y sialens i’r grwpiau hyn yw datblygu potensial pob unigolyn.

I want to emphasise the importance of early intervention to prevent pupils from disengaging from the education system. There is great potential in the work of the nurture groups being trialled in several areas of Wales. The nurture groups’ main aim is to increase self-respect and self-confidence, to teach social skills and reduce the emotional strain on pupils. Pupils have the opportunity to spend up to two terms in these classes, with assistance from special support staff, before they are re-integrated into mainstream education. The early results from these pilot schemes bode well. Rhondda Cynon Taf County Borough Council has recognised the potential of these nurture groups, and has established two classes in the county. I had the pleasure of seeing the Blaenclydach Infants School nurture class at work and have seen the change for the better in the children. These are the children most at risk from becoming disengaged from education. Nurture groups help pupils to cope. Not one pupil from the nurture groups has been excluded since the scheme’s inception. It is extremely important to urge each local authority to spread this good practice. Similarly, it is essential that we safeguard and promote those groups that work at the other end of the spectrum, with children and teenagers who, for whatever reason, cannot get the best from their education and from the opportunities offered to them. The challenge for these groups is to develop the potential of each individual.

Llongyfarchaf y ddau grŵp sydd wedi gwneud gwaith arbennig yn fy etholaeth. Y cyntaf yw cynllun Fairbridge De Cymru, sy’n gweithio gyda phobl ifanc, rhai ohonynt yn droseddwyr neu wedi ymwneud â chyffuriau ac alcohol, gyda nifer mewn perygl o roi’r gorau i’w haddysg oherwydd amodau anodd yn gymdeithasol ac yn y cartref. Mae cynllun Fairbridge yn cynnig cyfle iddynt ddatblygu sgiliau, adennill hyder a hunan-barch ac, yn y pen draw, eu galluogi i ail-integreiddio â’r system addysg a symud ymlaen â’u bywydau. Yn yr un modd, mae’r cynllun llyfrau i fabanod yn cynnig cymorth i ferched yn Rhondda Cynon Taf. Rhydd y grŵp y cyfle i famau a merched beichiog yn eu harddegau gyfarfod i ehangu eu sgiliau bywyd ac i gyflawni eu potensial mewn modd nad oedd yn bosibl iddynt yn y system draddodiadol. Neges y ddau grŵp yw: cydnabyddiaeth o’r gwaith a wneir, yr angen am unoliaeth polisi ledled Cymru, cefnogaeth i grwpiau sy’n gweithio i raddau helaeth ar eu pennau eu hunain, a’r angen gwirioneddol am ffrwd gyllid ddigonol a sefydlog.

I congratulate the two groups that have done outstanding work in my constituency. First is the Fairbridge South Wales scheme, which works with young people, some of whom are criminals or have been involved with drugs or alcohol, with a number in danger of abandoning their education due to difficult conditions both socially and at home. The Fairbridge scheme offers them an opportunity to develop skills, regain confidence and self-respect and, eventually, enables them to re-integrate into the education system and move on with their lives. Similarly, the books for babies scheme offers support to girls in Rhondda Cynon Taf. The group gives teenage mothers and pregnant girls the opportunity to meet to broaden their life skills and realise their potential in a way that was not possible for them within the traditional system. The message from those two groups is: a recognition of the work being done, the need for a unified policy throughout Wales, support for groups that work on their own to a large extent, and the real need for a sufficient, steady funding stream.

Jane Davidson The Minister for Education and Lifelong Learning spoken in English p. 101

Jane Davidson Y Gweinidog dros Addysg a Dysgu Gydol Oes siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 101

I thank all Members for their contributions. We all agree on the importance of finding the right ways to encourage young people to stay in education. I said at the beginning that we were looking at disengagement rather than disaffection. Disaffection is an outcome, that needs to be tacked retrospectively whereas we want to tackle disengagement so that, when young people are moving away from the school system, we find ways to bring them back in and provide them with the appropriate educational route. This is about enabling children to achieve the best that they can. I take issue with the suggestion that we are dealing with this issue piecemeal. We laid out a huge agenda in ‘The Learning Country’. In that agenda, we discussed working with children between the ages of three and seven, hence the early-years work, and I also support what Mick said about Sure Start. We consider the eight to 11 age group and how we must ensure that performance does not drop off in the transition between primary and secondary school. We have invested much additional money in tackling transition and performance at key stage 3, and we decided to widen the curriculum in a range of areas for those who do not achieve traditional academic success at key stage 4.

Diolchaf i’r holl Aelodau am eu cyfraniadau. Yr ydym oll yn cytuno ei bod yn bwysig dod o hyd i’r dulliau iawn i gymell pobl ifanc i barhau â’u haddysg. Dywedais ar y dechrau ein bod yn ystyried ymddieithrio yn hytrach nag anniddigrwydd. Canlyniad yw anniddigrwydd, y dylid ymdrin ag ef yn adolygol tra yr ydym am fynd i’r afael ag ymddieithriad fel ein bod yn dod o hyd i ddulliau o ddod â phobl ifanc yn ôl, pan ydynt yn ymbellhau oddi wrth y system ysgolion, a rhoi llwybr addysgol priodol iddynt. Pwrpas hyn yw galluogi plant i gyflawni’r gorau y gallant. Anghytunaf â’r awgrym ein bod yn ymdrin â’r mater hwn mewn modd tameidiog. Nodwyd agenda anferth gennym yn ‘Y Wlad sy’n Dysgu’. Yn yr agenda honno, trafodwyd gweithio gyda phlant o dair i saith oed, ac o hynny y daeth gwaith y blynyddoedd cynnar, ac ategaf hefyd yr hyn a ddywedodd Mick am Cychwyn Cadarn. Yr ydym yn ystyried y grŵp oedran wyth i 11 oed a’r angen i sicrhau nad yw perfformiad yn gostwng wrth symud o’r ysgol gynradd i’r ysgol uwchradd. Yr ydym wedi buddsoddi llawer o arian ychwanegol i ymdrin â thrawsnewid a pherfformiad yng nghyfnod allweddol 3, a gwnaethom benderfynu ehangu’r cwricwlwm mewn amryw o feysydd ar gyfer y sawl nad ydynt yn cael llwyddiant academaidd traddodiadol yng nghyfnod allweddol 4.

Plaid Cymru seems to be full of glee because the Government will not support its amendments, but amendment 2 does not spell out which stage of the curriculum you consider to be inflexible. Each key stage of the curriculum has varying amounts of flexibility and prescription. The curriculum in Wales for key stage 4, for example, is far less prescriptive than it is in England. I am concerned that Plaid Cymru’s latest tactic seems to be to call on the Government to do what we are already doing, and claim it as its own policy. That is what it is doing in the second part of amendment 2 calling on us to look at what we are doing for three to 19-year-olds. Plaid Cymru is also doing this by proposing a motion on top-up fees in the Education and Lifelong Learning Committee tomorrow, after I have made my announcement to the Assembly, and in calling for further work on alternative measures for evaluating success in amendment 3 today. If Plaid Cymru wants to contribute to the debate, it should withdraw amendment 3 because it is just plain wrong in saying that exam results are the only measure of success in education; it is just one measure of success in education, and we are considering a whole range of different measures.

Ymddengys fod Plaid Cymru wrth ei bodd am na wnaiff y Llywodraeth gefnogi ei gwelliannau, ond nid yw gwelliant 2 yn nodi pa gyfnod o’r cwricwlwm yr ystyriwch ei fod yn anhyblyg. Ceir gwahanol raddau o hyblygrwydd a chyfarwyddyd ym mhob cyfnod allweddol yn y cwricwlwm. Mae’r cwricwlwm yng Nghymru ar gyfer cyfnod allweddol 4, er enghraifft, yn llawer llai gorchmynnol nag y mae yn Lloegr. Yr wyf yn bryderus mai tacteg ddiweddaraf Plaid Cymru, yn ôl pob golwg, yw galw ar y Llywodraeth i wneud yr hyn a wnawn eisoes, a honni mai ei pholisi ei hun yw hwnnw. Dyna a wnaiff yn ail ran gwelliant 2 sy’n galw arnom i ystyried beth yr ydym yn ei wneud ar gyfer rhai tair i 19 mlwydd oed. Mae Plaid Cymru yn gwneud hynny hefyd drwy gynnig cynnig ar ffioedd ychwanegol yn y Pwyllgor Addysg a Dysgu Gydol Oes yfory, wedi imi wneud fy nghyhoeddiad gerbron y Cynulliad, a thrwy alw am waith pellach ar fesurau eraill i werthuso llwyddiant yng ngwelliant 3 heddiw. Os yw Plaid Cymru am gyfrannu i’r ddadl, dylai dynnu gwelliant 3 yn ôl gan ei bod yn hollol anghywir wrth ddweud mai canlyniadau arholiad yw’r unig gyfrwng i fesur llwyddiant mewn addysg; dim ond un mesur o lwyddiant mewn addysg ydynt, ac yr ydym yn ystyried ystod eang o wahanol fesurau.

I endorse Brian Gibbons’s challenge: in no community should it be too difficult to deliver educational performance. No Member should be content with an unsatisfactory school performance. We should have high expectations of our communities, which is why the narrowing the gap project is so important in ensuring that people from all backgrounds can deliver and achieve good academic results.

Ategaf her Brian Gibbons: ni ddylai fod yn rhy anodd sicrhau perfformiad addysgol mewn unrhyw gymuned. Ni ddylai’r un Aelod fodloni ar berfformiad anfoddhaol mewn ysgol. Dylem ddisgwyl llawer gan ein cymunedau, a dyna pam y mae prosiect cau’r bwlch mor bwysig wrth sicrhau bod pobl o bob cefndir yn gallu mynd â’r maen i’r wal a chael canlyniadau academaidd da.

As David Davies would expect, I cannot join the caning and flogging brigade. We want to bring respect into the education system. There should be greater respect for our teaching profession and I endorse Jonathan’s comments about our excellent schools and teachers. However, there should also be respect for pupils. Young people have spoken to Jane Hutt and me on many occasions, and to other Assembly Members, about participation, and have said that respect must be mutual.

Fel y byddai David Davies yn disgwyl, ni allaf ymuno â’r ffonodwyr a’r fflangellwyr. Yr ydym am ddod â pharch i’r system addysg. Dylai ein hathrawon gael mwy o barch ac ategaf sylwadau Jonathan am ein hysgolion a’n hathrawon rhagorol. Fodd bynnag, dylid cael parch at ddisgyblion hefyd. Mae pobl ifanc wedi siarad â Jane Hutt a minnau lawer gwaith, a chydag Aelodau eraill o’r Cynulliad, am gymryd rhan, ac wedi dweud bod rhaid wrth barch rhwng y naill a’r llall.

I solidly endorse approaches such as the Steiner method of education, about which we have heard in the Education and Lifelong Learning Committee. I have suggested to the Committee that it could be a valuable component in the early-years agenda because a nurturing response, of which Geraint spoke in relation to pilot projects, is supportive and fits with our agenda of learning through play. We must also tackle the deficits that Jonathan described that result from the fact that some children’s families do not properly support them, and we must identify these issues in the education system.

Yr wyf yn llwyr gefnogi dulliau fel dull addysg Steiner, y clywsom amdano yn y Pwyllgor Addysg a Dysgu Gydol Oes. Yr wyf wedi awgrymu i’r Pwyllgor y gallai fod yn elfen werthfawr yn agenda’r blynyddoedd cynnar am fod ymateb meithrin, y soniodd Geraint amdano mewn cysylltiad â phrosiectau peilot, yn gefnogol ac yn cydweddu â’n hagenda o ddysgu drwy chwarae. Rhaid inni fynd i’r afael hefyd â’r diffygion a ddisgrifiodd Jonathan sy’n ganlyniad i’r ffaith nad yw teuluoedd rhai plant yn eu cefnogi’n briodol, a rhaid inni ganfod y materion hyn yn y system addysg.

John Marek The Deputy Presiding Officer spoken in English p. 103

John Marek Y Dirprwy Lywydd siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 103

Order. You must wind up now.

Trefn. Rhaid ichi derfynu’n awr.

Jane Davidson spoken in English p. 103

Jane Davidson siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 103

I maintain my opposition to the amendments for the reasons I have given. I am grateful that Members will note the work we have undertaken, which will contribute to our big agenda, ‘The Learning Country’. It is a doing and delivering agenda, and we aim to continue to deliver it.

Yr wyf yn dal i wrthwynebu’r gwelliannau am y rhesymau a roddais. Yr wyf yn ddiolchgar y bydd Aelodau’n nodi’r gwaith a wnaethom, a fydd yn cyfrannu at ein hagenda fawr, ‘Y Wlad sy’n Dysgu’. Agenda o wneud a chyflawni ydyw, a bwriadwn barhau i’w chyflawni.

Gwelliant 1 Jonathan Morgan t. 103

Amendment 1 Jonathan Morgan p. 103

GwrthodwydRejected O blaidFor 8 YmatalAbstain 12 Yn erbynAgainst 30

Gwrthodwyd y gwelliant.

Amendment rejected.

Sut y pleidleisiodd yr AelodauHow Members voted
O blaidFor (8)
  • Nick Bourne
  • Alun Cairns
  • David Davies
  • William Graham
  • David Ian Jones
  • David Melding
  • Jonathan Morgan
  • Peter Rogers
YmatalAbstain (12)
  • Cynog Dafis
  • Geraint Davies
  • Christine Gwyther
  • Brian Hancock
  • Elin Jones
  • Gareth Jones
  • Helen Mary Jones
  • Ieuan Wyn Jones
  • David Lloyd
  • Janet Ryder
  • Rhodri Glyn Thomas
  • Phil Williams
Yn erbynAgainst (30)
  • Lorraine Barrett
  • Mick Bates
  • Peter Black
  • Eleanor Burnham
  • Christine Chapman
  • Jane Davidson
  • Andrew Davies
  • Ron Davies
  • Richard Edwards
  • Sue Essex
  • Delyth Evans
  • Michael German
  • Brian Gibbons
  • Janice Gregory
  • John Griffiths
  • Alison Halford
  • Jane Hutt
  • Ann Jones
  • Carwyn Jones
  • Peter Law
  • Huw Lewis
  • Val Lloyd
  • Tom Middlehurst
  • Rhodri Morgan
  • Lynne Neagle
  • Alun Pugh
  • Jenny Randerson
  • Karen Sinclair
  • Gwenda Thomas
  • Kirsty Williams

Gwelliant 2 Helen Mary Jones t. 104

Amendment 2 Helen Mary Jones p. 104

GwrthodwydRejected O blaidFor 19 YmatalAbstain 0 Yn erbynAgainst 31

Gwrthodwyd y gwelliant.

Amendment rejected.

Sut y pleidleisiodd yr AelodauHow Members voted
O blaidFor (19)
  • Nick Bourne
  • Alun Cairns
  • Cynog Dafis
  • David Davies
  • Geraint Davies
  • William Graham
  • Brian Hancock
  • David Ian Jones
  • Elin Jones
  • Gareth Jones
  • Helen Mary Jones
  • Ieuan Wyn Jones
  • David Lloyd
  • David Melding
  • Jonathan Morgan
  • Peter Rogers
  • Janet Ryder
  • Rhodri Glyn Thomas
  • Phil Williams
Yn erbynAgainst (31)
  • Lorraine Barrett
  • Mick Bates
  • Peter Black
  • Eleanor Burnham
  • Christine Chapman
  • Jane Davidson
  • Andrew Davies
  • Ron Davies
  • Richard Edwards
  • Sue Essex
  • Delyth Evans
  • Michael German
  • Brian Gibbons
  • Janice Gregory
  • John Griffiths
  • Christine Gwyther
  • Alison Halford
  • Jane Hutt
  • Ann Jones
  • Carwyn Jones
  • Peter Law
  • Huw Lewis
  • Val Lloyd
  • Tom Middlehurst
  • Rhodri Morgan
  • Lynne Neagle
  • Alun Pugh
  • Jenny Randerson
  • Karen Sinclair
  • Gwenda Thomas
  • Kirsty Williams

Gwelliant 3 Helen Mary Jones t. 105

Amendment 3 Helen Mary Jones p. 105

GwrthodwydRejected O blaidFor 19 YmatalAbstain 0 Yn erbynAgainst 31

Gwrthodwyd y gwelliant.

Amendment rejected.

Sut y pleidleisiodd yr AelodauHow Members voted
O blaidFor (19)
  • Nick Bourne
  • Alun Cairns
  • Cynog Dafis
  • David Davies
  • Geraint Davies
  • William Graham
  • Brian Hancock
  • David Ian Jones
  • Elin Jones
  • Gareth Jones
  • Helen Mary Jones
  • Ieuan Wyn Jones
  • David Lloyd
  • David Melding
  • Jonathan Morgan
  • Peter Rogers
  • Janet Ryder
  • Rhodri Glyn Thomas
  • Phil Williams
Yn erbynAgainst (31)
  • Lorraine Barrett
  • Mick Bates
  • Peter Black
  • Eleanor Burnham
  • Christine Chapman
  • Jane Davidson
  • Andrew Davies
  • Ron Davies
  • Richard Edwards
  • Sue Essex
  • Delyth Evans
  • Michael German
  • Brian Gibbons
  • Janice Gregory
  • John Griffiths
  • Christine Gwyther
  • Alison Halford
  • Jane Hutt
  • Ann Jones
  • Carwyn Jones
  • Peter Law
  • Huw Lewis
  • Val Lloyd
  • Tom Middlehurst
  • Rhodri Morgan
  • Lynne Neagle
  • Alun Pugh
  • Jenny Randerson
  • Karen Sinclair
  • Gwenda Thomas
  • Kirsty Williams

Cynnig NDM1236 Jane Davidson t. 106

Motion NDM1236 Jane Davidson p. 106

DerbyniwydAdopted O blaidFor 50 YmatalAbstain 0 Yn erbynAgainst 0

Derbyniwyd y cynnig.

Motion carried.

Sut y pleidleisiodd yr AelodauHow Members voted
O blaidFor (50)
  • Lorraine Barrett
  • Mick Bates
  • Peter Black
  • Nick Bourne
  • Eleanor Burnham
  • Alun Cairns
  • Christine Chapman
  • Cynog Dafis
  • Jane Davidson
  • Andrew Davies
  • David Davies
  • Geraint Davies
  • Ron Davies
  • Richard Edwards
  • Sue Essex
  • Delyth Evans
  • Michael German
  • William Graham
  • Janice Gregory
  • John Griffiths
  • Brian Gibbons
  • Christine Gwyther
  • Alison Halford
  • Brian Hancock
  • Jane Hutt
  • Ann Jones
  • Carwyn Jones
  • David Ian Jones
  • Elin Jones
  • Gareth Jones
  • Helen Mary Jones
  • Ieuan Wyn Jones
  • Huw Lewis
  • David Lloyd
  • Val Lloyd
  • Peter Law
  • David Melding
  • Tom Middlehurst
  • Jonathan Morgan
  • Rhodri Morgan
  • Lynne Neagle
  • Alun Pugh
  • Jenny Randerson
  • Peter Rogers
  • Janet Ryder
  • Karen Sinclair
  • Gwenda Thomas
  • Rhodri Glyn Thomas
  • Kirsty Williams
  • Phil Williams

John Marek The Deputy Presiding Officer spoken in English p. 106

John Marek Y Dirprwy Lywydd siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 106

That completes this afternoon’s business.

Daw hynny â chyfarfod heddiw i ben.

Daeth y cyfarfod i ben am 5.33 p.m.

The session ended at 5.33 p.m.