Cynulliad Cenedlaethol CymruNational Assembly for Wales · Cyfarfod llawnPlenary sitting
Dydd Mawrth 10 Rhagfyr 2002
Tuesday 10 December 2002
CynnwysContents
- 3Ethol i BwyllgorauElections to Committees 1 bleidlais1 vote
- 4Datganiad gan y LlywyddStatement by the Presiding Officer
- 4Cwestiynau i’r Prif WeinidogQuestions to the First Minister
- 4Prosiect Cydcoed, Sir BenfroCydcoed Project, Pembrokeshire
- 6Polisïau Datblygu EconomaiddEconomic Development Policies
- 9Fframwaith Gwasanaeth Cenedlaethol Clefyd SiwgrDiabetes National Service Framework
- 11Rhestrau Aros OrthopedigOrthopaedic Waiting Lists
- 15Fforwm Economaidd Gogledd CymruNorth Wales Economic Forum
- 17Rheoleiddio Gwasanaethau BysiauRegulation of Bus Services
- 19Polisïau IechydHealth Policies
- 21Anghenion Trafnidiaeth CymruThe Transport Needs of Wales
- 23Ymchwil a Ariennir gan y LlywodraethGovernment-funded Research
- 25Cyngor Prydain-IwerddonBritish-Irish Council
- 27Pwyntiau o DrefnPoints of Order
- 28Datganiad ar y Gwasanaeth Iechyd Cyhoeddus CenedlaetholStatement on the National Public Health Service
- 41Datganiad BusnesBusiness Statement
- 43Cymeradwyo Rheoliadau Cyfraniadau Ardrethu Annomestig (Cymru) (Diwygio) 2002Approval of the Non Domestic Rating Contributions (Wales) (Amendment) Regulations 2002 2 o bleidleisiau2 votes
- 48Cymeradwyo Gorchymyn Cynulliad Cenedlaethol Cymru (Taliadau Swyddogion Canlyniadau) (Cymru) 2002Approval of the National Assembly for Wales (Returning Officers’ Charges) (Wales) Order 2002 2 o bleidleisiau2 votes
- 54Cymeradwyo Cyllid Llywodraeth Leol (Cymru) Adroddiad Grant Arbennig (Rhif 19) (Cymru) 2002Approval of the Local Government Finance (Wales) Special Grant Report (No.19) (Wales) 2002 1 bleidlais1 vote
- 63Dadl Plaid Leiafrifol (Plaid Cymru)Minority Party Debate (Plaid Cymru) 2 o bleidleisiau2 votes
- 63Polisi Ynni CynaliadwySustainable Energy Policy 2 o bleidleisiau2 votes
PleidleisiauVotes
TrafodionProceedings
Cyfarfu’r Cynulliad am 2 p.m. gyda’r Llywydd yn y Gadair.
The Assembly met at 2 p.m. with the Presiding Officer in the Chair.
Ethol i Bwyllgorau
Elections to Committees
Carwyn Jones Y Trefnydd siaradwyd yn Gymraeg t. 3
Carwyn Jones The Business Minister spoken in Welsh p. 3
Cynigiaf fod
I propose that
Carwyn Jones Y Trefnydd (parhad) siaradwyd yn Gymraeg t. 3
Carwyn Jones The Business Minister (continued) spoken in Welsh p. 3
Cynigiaf fod
I propose that
Dafydd Elis-Thomas Y Llywydd siaradwyd yn Gymraeg t. 3
Dafydd Elis-Thomas The Presiding Officer spoken in Welsh p. 3
Yn unol â Rheol Sefydlog Rhif 8.4A, gofynnaf am ganiatad y Cynulliad i gynnal un bleidlais ar y ddau gynnig. A oes gwrthwynebiad i hyn? Gwelaf nad oes, felly galwaf am bleidlais ar NDM1250 ac NDM1251.
In accordance with Standing Order No. 8.4A, I ask for the Assembly’s permission to hold a single vote on both motions. Are there any objections to this? I see that there are not, therefore I call for a vote on NDM1250 and NDM1251.
Cynnig NDM1250 Carwyn Jones t. 3
Motion NDM1250 Carwyn Jones p. 3
DerbyniwydAdopted O blaidFor 31 YmatalAbstain 0 Yn erbynAgainst 0
Derbyniwyd y cynnig.
Motion carried.
Sut y pleidleisiodd yr AelodauHow Members voted
O blaidFor (31)
- Mick Bates
- Peter Black
- Nick Bourne
- Eleanor Burnham
- Christine Chapman
- Jane Davidson
- David Davies
- Geraint Davies
- Jocelyn Davies
- Richard Edwards
- Delyth Evans
- Michael German
- William Graham
- Janice Gregory
- John Griffiths
- Pauline Jarman
- Carwyn Jones
- David Ian Jones
- Elin Jones
- Ieuan Wyn Jones
- Peter Law
- David Lloyd
- Val Lloyd
- David Melding
- Tom Middlehurst
- Jonathan Morgan
- Rhodri Morgan
- Alun Pugh
- Rhodri Glyn Thomas
- Dafydd Wigley
- Phil Williams
Datganiad gan y Llywydd
Statement by the Presiding Officer
Dafydd Elis-Thomas Y Llywydd siaradwyd yn Gymraeg t. 4
Dafydd Elis-Thomas The Presiding Officer spoken in Welsh p. 4
Cyn imi alw’r Prif Weinidog i ateb cwestiynau, mae’n bleser gennyf groesawu dirprwyaeth o Maleisia sydd yn cynrycholi Cymdeithas Seneddol y Gymanwlad, sydd yn ymweld â ni i edrych ar ein technoleg gwybodaeth a chyfathrebu yn arbennig. Croeso mawr ichi. [Cymeradwyaeth.]
Before I call the First Minister to answer questions, it is a pleasure to welcome a delegation from Malaysia representing the Commonwealth Parliamentary Association, who are visiting us to look at our information and communications technology in particular. You are very welcome. [Applause.]
Cwestiynau i’r Prif Weinidog
Questions to the First Minister
Prosiect Cydcoed, Sir Benfro
Cydcoed Project, Pembrokeshire
A wnaiff y Prif Weinidog ddatganiad ar brosiect Cydcoed yn Sir Benfro? (OAQ21019)
Will the First Minister make a statement on the Cydcoed project in Pembrokeshire? (OAQ21019)
Rhodri Morgan Y Prif Weinidog siaradwyd yn Gymraeg t. 4
Rhodri Morgan The First Minister spoken in Welsh p. 4
Hyd yn hyn, cafwyd cytundeb ar bedwar prosiect o dan gynllun Cydcoed yn Sir Benfro, sef y Slash pond walk yn Broadhaven, sydd yn derbyn £28,000; cynllun yng Nghlynfyw ym Moncath, sydd yn derbyn dros £100,000; Ysgol Iau y Grove ym Mhenfro, sydd yn derbyn dros £25,000; a Maenor Scolton yn Spittal, sydd hefyd yn derbyn dros £25,000. Mae Cydcoed yn llwyddiant mawr ac, oherwydd ei lwyddiant, mae mwy o alw am arian nac sydd ar gael.
To date, four projects have been agreed under the Cydcoed scheme in Pembrokeshire, namely the Slash pond walk in Broadhaven, which is receiving £28,000; the project in Clynfyw in Boncath, which is receiving over £100,000; Grove Junior School in Pembroke, which is receiving over £25,000; and Scolton Manor in Spittal, which is also receiving over £25,000. Cydcoed is a major success and, because of its success, demand for money exceeds the supply.
Ymwelais â chynllun Slash pond yn Broadhaven rai wythnosau yn ôl. A gytunwch fod y cynllun hwn i greu coedwig a llwybr newydd ar gyfer y gymuned leol yn enghraifft ardderchog o arian Amcan 1 yn cael ei ddefnyddio yn unol â blaenoriaethau’r Cynulliad o ran cynaliadwyedd a chryfhau cymunedau?
I visited the Slash pond scheme in Broadhaven some weeks ago. Do you agree that this scheme to create a new forest and path for the local community is an excellent example of Objective 1 funding being used in accordance with the Assembly’s priorities in terms of sustainability and strengthening communities?
Rhodri Morgan Y Prif Weinidog siaradwyd yn Gymraeg t. 5
Rhodri Morgan The First Minister spoken in Welsh p. 5
Ni allaf ychwanegu llawer at hynny. Mae’r cynllun hwn yn taro’r nod o ran ein blaenoriaethau—yr amgylchedd a chynaliadwyedd, rhoi’r pŵer i’n cymunedau i ddewis eu blaenoriaethau eu hunain, a datblygu economaidd.
I cannot add much to that. This scheme hits the mark in terms of our priorities—the environment and sustainability, empowering our communities to choose their own priorities, and economic development.
Yr wyf yn siŵr y byddem i gyd yn cefnogi’r hyn y mae Delyth a chi wedi ei ddweud, sef bod y cynllun hwn yn arbennig o fentrus a phwysig i gefn gwlad. A gytunwch fod gan y cynlluniau hyn botensial mawr o ran twristiaeth, iechyd y cyhoedd a datblygu economaidd? Fodd bynnag, mae perygl oherwydd bod tuedd o hyd i blannu coed conwydd. Mae’r canran o goed conwydd a gaiff eu plannu yn llawer uwch na chanran mathau eraill o goed: mae hynny’n peryglu potensial coedwigoedd.
I am sure that we all support what Delyth and you have said, namely that this scheme is particularly innovative and important for the countryside. Do you agree that these projects have great potential in terms of tourism, public health and economic development? However, there is a danger because of the propensity to persevere with conifer planting. The percentage of conifers planted is much higher than that of other types of trees: that endangers the potential of woodlands.
Rhodri Morgan Y Prif Weinidog siaradwyd yn Gymraeg t. 5
Rhodri Morgan The First Minister spoken in Welsh p. 5
Nid oes gormod o goed conwydd yn cael eu plannu. Disgwyliwn y bydd amrywiaeth o goed cynhenid Cymreig yn cael eu plannu o dan y cynllun Cydcoed. Yr ydych yn hollol gywir: yn y chwedegau a’r saithdegau, pan oedd plannu coed wedi cyrraedd ei frig yng Nghymru, yr oedd tua 80 y cant o’r coed yn byrwydd sitka, gan mai honno yw’r goeden a dyfai gyflymaf. Yn y pen draw, bu i hynny olygu nad oedd digon o amrywiaeth o goed yn yr amgylchedd.
It is not the case that too many conifers are being planted. I would expect to see a variety of native Welsh trees being planted under the Cydcoed scheme. You are quite right: in the sixties and seventies, when tree planting was at its zenith in Wales, about 80 per cent of the trees were sitka spruce, because it is the fastest-growing tree. In time, that led to a lack of variety of trees in the environment.
A gytunwch fod prosiectau fel hyn yn iawn mewn egwyddor ond nad oes digon ohonynt i wneud gwahaniaeth i’n diwydiant amaethyddol neu i’r amgylchedd?
Do you agree that such projects are fine in principle, but that there are not enough of them to make a difference to our agricultural industry or to the environment?
Rhodri Morgan Y Prif Weinidog siaradwyd yn Gymraeg t. 5
Rhodri Morgan The First Minister spoken in Welsh p. 5
Yr ydym wedi dechrau’n fach gyda chynllun Cydcoed, ac wedi gweld bod y galw yn uchel iawn—yn llawer mwy na’r adnoddau a glustnodwyd at y cynllun hwn. Ystyriwn ymestyn y cynllun fel bod rhagor o arian ar gael. Mae 120 o brosiectau Cydcoed ar y gweill, ac os gallwn glustnodi mwy o arian cyn bo hir, bydd y rhan helaeth o’r prosiectau hynny’n cael eu rhoi ar waith.
We have started small with the Cydcoed scheme, and have seen that demand is high—much greater than the resources earmarked for this scheme. We are considering extending the scheme so that more money is available. One hundred and twenty Cydcoed projects are in the pipeline, and if we can allocate more funding in the near future, the vast majority of those projects will go ahead.
Polisïau Datblygu Economaidd
Economic Development Policies
A wnaiff y Prif Weinidog ddatganiad ar sut y bu i bolisïau datblygu economaidd ei Lywodraeth effeithio ar Ganolbarth a Gorllewin Cymru yn ystod y chwe mis diwethaf? (OAQ21034)
Will the First Minister make a statement on how his Government’s policies on economic development have had an effect on Mid and West Wales during the last six months? (OAQ21034)
Rhodri Morgan Y Prif Weinidog siaradwyd yn Gymraeg t. 6
Rhodri Morgan The First Minister spoken in Welsh p. 6
Gallwn ddangos bod lefel diweithdra wedi gostwng o 3.6 y cant ar 1 Ebrill 2002 i 3.3 y cant ym mis Hydref. Dyna’r ffigurau diweddaraf. Golyga hynny ostyngiad o dros 660 yn nifer y bobl sydd yn ddiwaith yn yr ardal honno. Dengys hynny bod ein polisïau yn gweithio.
We can demonstrate that the level of unemployment has fallen from 3.6 per cent on 1 April 2002 to 3.3 per cent in October. Those are the latest figures. That means a reduction of over 660 in the number of people unemployed in that area. That shows that our policies are working.
Byddai cryn sgeptigiaeth yng ngogledd Penfro ynghylch a yw eich polisïau yn gweithio. Mae gan Lywodraeth Cymru gyfle i ymateb i’r angen am fuddsoddiad cyhoeddus er mwyn sicrhau adfywiad mewn ardal sydd wedi dioddef ergydion economaidd. Mae’r cyfle hwn yn bodoli oherwydd bod nifer o syniadau ar y bwrdd yn barod: datblygu marina a chanol y dref, er enghraifft. A ydych yn fodlon ymrwymo i ddarparu’r arian angenrheidiol ar gyfer datblygiadau o’r fath? Yr ydym yn sôn am filiynau yn hytrach nag am filoedd o bunnoedd.
There would be considerable scepticism in north Pembrokeshire as to whether or not your policies are working. The Government of Wales has an opportunity to respond to the need for public investment to ensure regeneration in an area that has suffered economic blows. This opportunity exists because several ideas are already on the table: developing a marina and the town centre, for instance. Are you willing to commit to providing the necessary funding? We are talking about millions, rather than thousands of pounds.
Rhodri Morgan Y Prif Weinidog siaradwyd yn Gymraeg t. 6
Rhodri Morgan The First Minister spoken in Welsh p. 6
Wrth gwrs. Cytunaf fod nifer o brosiectau yn Nghanolbarth a Gorllewin Cymru. Yn ddiweddar yr oeddwn yn Aberdaugleddau yn Sir Benfro, mewn bad ar yr aber gydag aelodau bwrdd Doc Penfro, a buom yn trafod chwe phrosiect a oedd werth rhyw £50 miliwn yn yr ardal honno. Yn yr ardal y cyfeiriodd Cynog ato, sef arfordir Bae Ceredigion, ceir pedwar prosiect: parc technoleg Blaenannerch, lle buddsoddwyd £10 miliwn; marina Abergwaun, lle buddsoddwyd £7 miliwn; datblygiadau yng ngwersyll yr Urdd, Llangrannog; a datblygiadau sydd yn digwydd ar hyn o bryd yn Llyfrgell Genedlaethol Cymru, Aberystwyth—mae’r rheini i gyd dros £5 miliwn. Mae hynny yn golygu y buddsoddwyd rhyw £25 miliwn yn arfordir Bae Ceredigion.
Of course. I agree that there are several projects in Mid and West Wales. I was in Milford Haven recently, in a boat on the estuary with members of the Pembroke Dock board, and we discussed six projects that totalled about £50 million in that area. In the area to which Cynog referred, namely the Cardigan Bay coast, there are four projects: the Blaenannerch technology park, where £10 million has been invested; the Fishguard marina development, where £7 million has been invested; developments at the Urdd camp in Llangrannog; and the developments that are already taking place at the National Library of Wales in Aberystwyth—all those projects total over £5 million. That means that some £25 million has been invested in the Cardigan Bay coast.
Nid yw hynny’n cyfrif y sector olew a nwy. Mae’r symiau hynny yn debycach i rifau teleffôn nag i’r miliynau o bunnoedd y buom yn eu trafod hyd yn hyn. Ceir nifer fawr o brosiectau. Rhaid eu gwireddu dros y ddwy neu dair blynedd nesaf: dyna’r her sydd o’n blaenau, pa un ai drwy Amcan 1, neu drwy gynlluniau eraill, y caiff y prosiectau hyn eu cyllido.
That does not include the oil and gas sector. Those sums are more like telephone numbers than the millions of pounds that we have been discussing up until now. There are many projects and we must realise them over the next two to three years: that is the challenge that we face, whether these projects are funded through Objective 1 or other schemes.
Are you aware that most people in my constituency, which includes Fishguard, are committed to constructive engagement in the town’s future, unlike the nationalist regional Assembly Member who, despite what he just said, seems interested only in wrecking for perceived party political gain?
A ydych yn ymwybodol bod y rhan fwyaf o bobl yn fy etholaeth i, sydd yn cynnwys Abergwaun, wedi ymrwymo i gymryd rhan adeiladol yn nyfodol y dref, yn wahanol i Aelod Cynulliad rhanbarthol y cenedlaetholwyr yr ymddengys mai ei unig ddiddordeb, er gwaethaf yr hyn y mae newydd ei ddweud, yw distrywio er mwyn elw pleidiol wleidyddol canfyddedig.
Rhodri Morgan The First Minister spoken in English p. 7
Rhodri Morgan Y Prif Weinidog siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 7
When we consider the number of projects that are available, all politicians will want to see as many of them as possible turned into reality. We are talking about large sums of money. Sometimes, it is public money, which is used to incentivise the private sector. You will not be able to use public money to incentivise the private sector unless people clearly believe that there is a message about the mixed economy and that we can make it work together. That is how you encourage development.
Pan ystyriwn y nifer o brosiectau sydd ar gael, bydd pob gwleidydd am weld gwireddu cynifer ag y bo modd ohonynt. Yr ydym yn sôn am symiau mawr o arian. Weithiau, arian cyhoeddus ydyw, a ddefnyddir i roi anogaeth i’r sector preifat. Ni ellir defnyddio arian cyhoeddus i roi anogaeth i’r sector preifat oni bai fod pobl yn credu’n bendant bod neges ynghylch yr economi gymysg a bod modd iddynt weithio gyda’i gilydd. Dyna’r modd i hybu datblygu.
A wnaiff y Prif Weinidog esbonio pam bod ei Lywodraeth yn rhoi blaenoriaeth wahanol i wahanol ranbarthau yng Nghymru? Pan fo 2,000 o swyddi yn cael eu colli yn ne-ddwyrain Cymru mae grantiau o £66 miliwn ar gael er mwyn adfwyio’r economi. Fodd bynnag, pan gollir 2,000 o swyddi yn ne-orllewin Cymru, nid yw’r un lefel o grantiau ar gael. A wnaiff y Prif Weinidog esbonio’r gwahaniaeth?
Will the First Minister explain why his Government gives different priority to different regions in Wales? When 2,000 jobs are lost in south-east Wales, £66 million in grants is available to regenerate the economy. However, when 2,000 jobs are lost in south-west Wales, the same level of grants is not available. Will the First Minister explain the difference?
Rhodri Morgan Y Prif Weinidog siaradwyd yn Gymraeg t. 7
Rhodri Morgan The First Minister spoken in Welsh p. 7
Nid oes gwahaniaeth i’w esbonio. Pan fo argyfwng yn digwydd yn Nghanolbarth a Gorllewin Cymru, ac mae’n bosibl defnyddio arian cyhoeddus i gynorthwyo’r ardal, yr ydym yn gwneud hynny. Gwnaethpwyd hynny yn Nolgarrog, yn etholaeth y Llywydd, ac fe achubwyd dros 100 o swyddi. Mae’r rhagolygon yn edrych yn rhesymol i achub swyddi yn y diwydiant gwnïo yn o leiaf un o’r ffatrïoedd yn Abergwaun neu yng Ngheredigion. Ni all neb ein beirniadu trwy ddweud nad oes arian ar gael drwy gymorth rhanbarthol dewisol ac Amcan 1 yng Nghanolbarth a Gorllewin Cymru pan fo argyfyngau’n codi oherwydd cau ffatrïoedd.
There is no difference to explain. When a crisis occurs in Mid and West Wales, and it is possible to use public money to assist the area, we do so. That was done in Dolgarrog, in the Presiding Officer’s constituency, and over 100 jobs were saved. For example, it seems likely that clothing industry jobs will be saved in at least one of the factories in Fishguard or in Ceredigion. Nobody can criticise us by saying that money is not being made available through regional selective assistance and Objective 1 in Mid and West Wales when crises occur because of factory closures.
One policy that will impact on the mid Wales economy is the Shotton Paper Company’s encouragement of the increased use of recycled paper at its mill. That will be instead of a great deal of timber that is grown in mid Wales—perhaps as much as the equivalent of 15 megawatts. What plans do you have to use this timber to produce energy, say?
Un polisi a gaiff effaith ar economi’r Canolbarth yw’r anogaeth y mae Shotton Paper Company yn ei roi i ddefnyddio mwy o bapur ailgylchedig yn ei felin. Bydd hwnnw’n cymryd lle llawer iawn o goed a dyfir yn y Canolbarth—yn gymaint efallai â’r hyn sy’n cyfateb i 15 megawat. Pa gynlluniau sydd gennych i ddefnyddio’r coed hwnnw i gynhyrchu ynni, dyweder?
Rhodri Morgan The First Minister spoken in English p. 8
Rhodri Morgan Y Prif Weinidog siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 8
That is one possibility. The project, funded by the waste and resources action programme, at Shotton Paper Company’s mill is enormous. After the £263 million Ford project, which was announced a fortnight ago, the WRAP-funded project of £129 million for a recyclate mill is the next biggest industrial project in Wales, and possibly in Great Britain. However, the consequences of that project for growing timber in mid Wales, and the sitka spruce trees that I mentioned to Rhodri Glyn Thomas earlier, are not good, so alternative uses for that timber must be found. UPM-Kymmene (UK) Ltd has said not to worry and that it will buy all the timber and supply it to pulp and paper mills, which can make better use of sitka spruce and other trees that were planted 30 or 40 years ago and are now reaching maturity or will do so over the next 20 years. An energy use or a building industry use may be found, but either way, we will be well covered for alternative uses for the timber that was expected to go to the Shotton paper mill.
Mae hynny’n un posibilrwydd. Mae’r prosiect ym melin Shotton Paper Company, a ariannir drwy’r rhaglen gweithredu gwastraff ac adnoddau, yn un anferth. Ar ôl prosiect Ford, sy’n werth £263 miliwn, a gyhoeddwyd bythefnos yn ôl, y prosiect gwerth £129 miliwn a ariannir drwy’r rhaglen gweithredu gwastraff ac adnoddau ar gyfer melin i drin deunydd ailgylchedig yw’r prosiect diwydiannol ail fwyaf yng Nghymru, ac ym Mhrydain Fawr o bosibl. Fodd bynnag, ni fydd effaith y prosiect hwnnw’n dda o ran tyfu coed yn y Canolbarth, a’r pyrwydd sitka y soniais wrth Rhodri Glyn Thomas amdanynt yn gynharach, felly bydd yn rhaid dod o hyd i ddulliau eraill o ddefnyddio’r coed hwnnw. Mae UPM-Kymmene (UK) Cyf wedi dweud na ddylid poeni ac y bydd yn prynu’r holl goed ac yn ei gyflenwi i felinau mwydion coed a phapur, sy’n gallu gwneud defnydd gwell o byrwydd sitka a choed eraill a blannwyd 30 neu 40 mlynedd yn ôl ac a fydd yn cyrraedd eu llawn dwf cyn hir neu dros yr 20 mlynedd nesaf. Efallai y gellir ei ddefnyddio i gynhyrchu ynni neu yn y diwydiant adeiladu, ond beth bynnag a ddigwydd, bydd digon o ddulliau eraill o ddefnyddio’r coed yr oedd disgwyl iddo fynd i felin bapur Shotton.
Ieuan Wyn Jones Arweinydd yr Wrthblaid siaradwyd yn Gymraeg t. 8
Ieuan Wyn Jones The Leader of the Opposition spoken in Welsh p. 8
A ydych yn cofio ichi roi addewid clir yn y strategaeth datblygu economaidd genedlaethol y byddai cynnyrch mewnwladol crynswth y pen Cymru yn 90 y cant o’r cyfartaledd Prydeinig erbyn 2010? Mae pob arolwg annibynnol erbyn hyn yn darogan y gallai’r ffigur fod cyn ised â 79 y cant erbyn 2005. Os ydych am wireddu’ch amcan rhwng 2005 a 2010, rhaid i economi Cymru dyfu o leiaf 4.7 y cant bob blwyddyn. A ydych yn cadw at eich ffigur o 90 y cant erbyn 2010?
Do you remember the clear promise you made in the national economic development strategy that Wales’s gross domestic product per capita would be 90 per cent of the British average by 2010? Every independent survey forecasts that the figure could be as low as 79 per cent by 2005. If you are going to realise your objective between 2005 and 2010, Wales’s economy must grow by at least 4.7 per cent every year. Do you stick to your figure of 90 per cent by 2010?
Rhodri Morgan The First Minister spoken in English p. 9
Rhodri Morgan Y Prif Weinidog siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 9
Ydw.
Yes.
Objective 1 was supposed to be one of the main instruments for achieving your GDP target. It is now clear to those who have studied this topic that you will miss that target by a mile. Will you now accept Don Touhig’s invitation and that you will have to take responsibility for the debacle that is Objective 1? Why do you not now accept that you have got it wrong, have misled the people of Wales, and will never deliver what you have promised?
Cymerwyd mai Amcan 1 oedd un o’r prif gyfryngau i gyrraedd eich targed ar gyfer CMC. Mae’n amlwg bellach i’r rhai a astudiodd y pwnc hwn y byddwch yn methu’r targed hwnnw o bell. A dderbyniwch wahoddiad Don Touhig yn awr a chydnabod y bydd yn rhaid i chi dderbyn y cyfrifoldeb am lanastr Amcan 1? Pam na dderbyniwch yn awr eich bod wedi camgymryd, eich bod wedi camarwain pobl Cymru, ac na wnewch byth gyflawni’r hyn yr ydych wedi’i addo?
Rhodri Morgan The First Minister spoken in English p. 9
Rhodri Morgan Y Prif Weinidog siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 9
I have never heard such a farrago of utter balderdash. That was unworthy of a leader of the opposition. Anybody considering the progress of Objective 1 and the other structural funds will realise that we are getting close to £1 billion in commitment now. Why can you not accept a success as such? What is the reason for your total and absolute allergy or aversion to good news about the Welsh economy? Why can you not cheer with the rest of the populace when Ford announces a £263 million project, making Bridgend its main petrol engine producer in Wales? Why can you not cheer the £129 million Shotton paper recyclate mill that Mick Bates called to our attention? Why can you not cheer when Airbus is spending £100 million in Broughton? Why can you not cheer when Corus is spending £100 million in Wales this year? When will you accept that whingeing on the sidelines is unworthy of a responsible opposition? Then again, you never wanted to be a responsible opposition, did you?
Ni chlywais erioed y fath gybolfa o ddwli llwyr. Yr oedd hynny’n annheilwng o arweinydd yr wrthblaid. Bydd unrhyw un sy’n ystyried cynnydd Amcan 1 a’r cronfeydd strwythurol eraill yn sylweddoli ein bod bron â chyrraedd ymrwymiad o £1 biliwn erbyn hyn. Pam na allwch dderbyn llwyddiant am yr hyn ydyw? Pam yr ydych yn methu’n llwyr â dioddef newyddion da am economi Cymru? Pam na allwch gymeradwyo gyda gweddill y boblogaeth pan yw Ford yn cyhoeddi prosiect gwerth £263 miliwn, a fydd yn peri mai Pen-y-bont ar Ogwr fydd ei brif waith cynhyrchu motorau petrol yng Nghymru? Pam na allwch gymeradwyo’r felin bapur i drin deunydd ailgylchedig werth £129 miliwn yn Shotton y tynnodd Mick Bates ein sylw ati? Pam na allwch gymeradwyo pan yw Airbus yn gwario £100 miliwn ym Mrychdyn? Pam na allwch gymeradwyo pan yw Corus yn gwario £100 miliwn yng Nghymru eleni? Pa bryd y gwnewch dderbyn bod cwyno ar y cyrion yn annheilwng o wrthblaid gyfrifol? Ond wedyn, nid oeddech erioed am fod yn wrthblaid gyfrifol, oeddech chi?
Fframwaith Gwasanaeth Cenedlaethol Clefyd Siwgr
Diabetes National Service Framework
A wnaiff y Prif Weinidog ddatganiad ar y dyddiad arfaethedig ar gyfer rhoi strategaeth ddarparu’r fframwaith gwasanaeth cenedlaethol clefyd siwgr ar waith? (OAQ21015)
Will the First Minister make a statement on the expected delivery date of the diabetes national service framework delivery strategy? (OAQ21015)
Rhodri Morgan Y Prif Weinidog siaradwyd yn Gymraeg t. 10
Rhodri Morgan The First Minister spoken in Welsh p. 10
Cyhoeddwyd y fframwaith gwasanaeth cenedlaethol clefyd siwgr gan y Gweinidog dros Iechyd a Gwasanaethau Cymdeithasol ym mis Ebrill eleni. Cyhoeddir y strategaeth ddarparu ym Mawrth 2003.
The diabetes national service framework was announced by the Minister for Health and Social Services in April of this year. The delivery strategy will be published in March 2003.
Faint o arian ychwanegol sydd ar gael i wireddu’r amcanion hyn?
How much additional funding is available to accomplish these objectives?
Rhodri Morgan Y Prif Weinidog siaradwyd yn Gymraeg t. 10
Rhodri Morgan The First Minister spoken in Welsh p. 10
Yr ydym wedi cyhoeddi yn ein cynlluniau gwariant ar gyfer y gwasanaeth iechyd gwladol y darperir £1 filiwn y flwyddyn ar gyfer darparu’r fframwaith gwasanaeth cenedlaethol clefyd siwgr rhwng 2002 a 2005.
We have announced in our plans for NHS expenditure that £1 million a year will be provided for the delivery of the diabetes national service framework between 2002 and 2005.
Will you congratulate members of the peer support programme in my constituency—the only programme of its kind in Wales—on their invaluable contribution to diabetes care there? Do you agree that a strong patient’s voice is vital to the development of diabetes provision in Wales? Also, will you endorse the partnership working that is leading to better treatment for diabetics in the Cynon valley and Wales?
A wnewch longyfarch aelodau o’r rhaglen cynnal cymheiriaid yn fy etholaeth i—yr unig raglen o’i bath yng Nghymru—ar eu cyfraniad amhrisiadwy i ofal clefyd siwgwr yn y fan honno? A gytunwch ei bod yn hollbwysig i gleifion gael llais cryf yn natblygiad y ddarpariaeth clefyd siwgwr yng Nghymru? Hefyd, a wnewch gefnogi’r gwaith partneriaeth sy’n arwain at well triniaeth ar gyfer clefyd siwgwr yng nghwm Cynon ac yng Nghymru?
Rhodri Morgan The First Minister spoken in English p. 10
Rhodri Morgan Y Prif Weinidog siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 10
Certainly. People have learned over the past 10 years that the patient should not be passive. With chronic conditions such as asthma and bronchitis—about which I know much myself—and diabetes and coronary heart disease, it is not a matter of being unwell, needing treatment, subsequently receiving it and being told what to do. You must involve yourself in the treatment. We have all learned that lesson in regard to chronic conditions, which afflict a substantial proportion of the population of this country, and of Wales in particular. Patient involvement is key to patients managing their lives so that their affliction does not prevent them from working, caring for children or elderly people, or enjoying life. The patient’s voice must be heard and there must be full patient involvement in managing these chronic conditions alongside the health service professionals.
Yn sicr. Mae pobl wedi dysgu dros y 10 mlynedd diwethaf na ddylai’r claf fod yn oddefol. Yn achos anhwylderau cronig fel asthma a broncitis—y gwn i lawer amdano fy hun—a chlefyd siwgwr a chlefyd coronaidd y galon, nid yw’n fater o fod yn wael, bod ag angen triniaeth, ei derbyn wedyn a chael rhywun yn dweud wrthych beth y dylech ei wneud. Rhaid i chi gymryd rhan yn y driniaeth. Yr ydym oll wedi dysgu’r wers honno mewn cysylltiad ag anhwylderau cronig, y mae cyfran sylweddol o boblogaeth y wlad hon, a Chymru’n benodol, yn dioddef ganddynt. Mae cymryd rhan gan y cleifion yn hollbwysig i alluogi cleifion i gadw trefn ar eu bywyd fel nad yw eu cystuddiau’n eu hatal rhag gweithio, gofalu am blant neu bobl oedrannus, neu fwynhau bywyd. Rhaid gwrando ar lais y claf a rhaid iddo yntau gymryd rhan lawn wrth reoli’r anhwylderau cronig hyn ochr yn ochr â gweithwyr proffesiynol y gwasanaeth iechyd.
Diabetes, directly and indirectly, costs the NHS almost 10 per cent of its annual budget. The framework is therefore extremely welcome. However, given Derek Wanless’s calculations for the NHS in England, it is clear that implementing the framework properly in Wales would cost at least £36 million, and probably as much as £50 million. You indicated that £1 million extra per annum would be provided over the next few years. How can the Assembly Government hope to implement the framework in any meaningful fashion given such low levels of funding?
Mae clefyd siwgwr yn costio ymron i 10 y cant o gyllideb flynyddol y GIG, yn uniongyrchol neu’n anuniongyrchol. Mae’r fframwaith i’w groesawu’n fawr felly. Fodd bynnag, yng ngolwg cyfrifiadau Derek Wanless ar gyfer y GIG yn Lloegr, mae’n amlwg y byddai gweithredu’r fframwaith yn briodol yng Nghymru’n costio o leiaf £36 miliwn, ac yn gymaint â £50 miliwn, yn ôl pob tebyg. Gwnaethoch nodi y byddid yn darparu £1 filiwn yn ychwanegol y flwyddyn dros y blynyddoedd nesaf. Pa obaith sydd gan Lywodraeth y Cynulliad o weithredu’r fframwaith yn ystyrlon yng ngolwg y ffaith bod y lefelau ariannu mor isel?
Rhodri Morgan The First Minister spoken in English p. 11
Rhodri Morgan Y Prif Weinidog siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 11
You say that the levels of funding are low, but no funding is allocated to the diabetes national service frameworks in Scotland or England. Therefore, we are £1 million better off than either Scotland or England and have provided it earlier and you should welcome that. The delivery strategy, which will be published in March 2003, will combine the information from the standards document with the steps to be taken by local health and social care organisations to achieve delivery of the standards. The additional £1 million per annum is the cost of working through the national service framework methodology. We have allocated that additional £1 million per annum for the next three years, which is the budget we are currently working to.
Dywedwch fod y lefelau ariannu’n isel, ond ni ddyrennir cyllid i’r fframweithiau gwasanaeth cenedlaethol clefyd siwgwr yn yr Alban na Lloegr. Gan hynny, mae’n well arnom ni o £1 filiwn nag y mae ar yr Alban neu Loegr, ac yr ydym wedi’i ddarparu’n gynharach a dylech groesawu hynny. Bydd y strategaeth gyflawni, a gyhoeddir ym Mawrth 2003, yn cyfuno’r wybodaeth o’r ddogfen safonau â’r camau sydd i’w cymryd gan y cyrff iechyd a gofal cymdeithasol lleol i gyrraedd y safonau. Yr £1 filiwn yn ychwanegol y flwyddyn yw cost gweithio yn ôl methodoleg y fframwaith gwasanaeth cenedlaethol. Yr ydym wedi dyrannu’r swm ychwanegol hwnnw o £1 filiwn y flwyddyn dros y tair blynedd nesaf, sef y gyllideb yr ydym yn ei dilyn ar hyn o bryd.
Rhestrau Aros Orthopedig
Orthopaedic Waiting Lists
Will the First Minister make a statement on the orthopaedic waiting lists in South Wales Central? (OAQ21010)
A wnaiff y Gweinidog ddatganiad ar y rhestrau aros orthopedig yng Nghanol De Cymru? (OAQ21010)
Rhodri Morgan The First Minister spoken in English p. 11
Rhodri Morgan Y Prif Weinidog siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 11
We focus on waiting times, not lists, as you know, David. Orthopaedic waiting times in the Bro Taf Health Authority have decreased. Last October, over 800 people waited over 18 months for orthopaedic in-patient treatment and, at the end of July 2002, only two had waited over 18 months. The number of out-patients waiting for more than 18 months also fell during the same period.
Yr ydym yn canolbwyntio ar amseroedd aros, nid ar restrau aros, fel y gwyddoch, David. Mae’r amseroedd aros orthopedig yn Awdurdod Iechyd Bro Taf wedi gostwng. Fis Hydref diwethaf, yr oedd dros 800 o bobl a fu’n disgwyl ers dros 18 mis am driniaeth cleifion mewnol orthopedig a, ddiwedd Gorffennaf 2002, dim ond dau a fu’n aros ers dros 18 mis. Bu gostyngiad hefyd yn nifer y cleifion allanol a fu’n aros ers dros 18 mis yn ystod yr un cyfnod.
I have the latest figures published by the Assembly in front of me, and 77 people have waited over 18 months for orthopaedic in-patient treatment, despite the fact that you promised that no-one would wait that long. Also, 2,308 people have waited over 18 months to see the consultant. That is before the clock even starts measuring how long they have to wait for treatment. Will you apologise to these people?
Mae’r ffigurau diweddaraf a gyhoeddwyd gan y Cynulliad gennyf o’m blaen, ac mae 77 o bobl yn disgwyl ers dros 18 mis am driniaeth cleifion mewnol orthopedig, er ichi addo na fyddai neb yn aros cyn hwyed â hynny. Hefyd, mae 2,308 o bobl yn aros ers dros 18 mis i weld yr ymgynghorydd. Mae hynny cyn hyd yn oed ddechrau mesur pa mor hir y mae’n rhaid iddynt ddisgwyl am driniaeth. A wnewch ymddiheuro i’r bobl hyn?
Rhodri Morgan The First Minister spoken in English p. 12
Rhodri Morgan Y Prif Weinidog siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 12
A decision was taken by a Government of your political stripe to close Rhydlafar hospital and to transfer routine elective hip and knee orthopaedic surgery to Llandough hospital—that has affected the southern half of South Wales Central. That did not go well, and the number of hip and other orthopaedic procedures undertaken roughly halved in the years immediately following the closure. We are now building back up to, and starting to exceed, the level of procedures achieved while Rhydlafar was operating. No apologies are due from this side of the Chamber. Perhaps you should look to your Conservative colleagues in the previous—[Interruption.]
Penderfynodd Llywodraeth o’ch lliw gwleidyddol chi gau ysbyty Rhydlafar a throsglwyddo llawdriniaethau orthopedig dewisol ar y glun a’r pen-glin i ysbyty Llandochau—effeithiodd hynny ar hanner deheuol Canol De Cymru. Nid aeth hynny’n hwylus, a gwnaeth nifer y triniaethau ar y glun a thriniaethau orthopedig eraill haneru bron yn y blynyddoedd yn union ar ôl y cau. Felly yr ydym yn codi’n ôl at lefel y triniaethau a gyflawnid tra oedd Rhydlafar yn gweithredu, ac yn dechrau rhagori arnynt. Nid oes gofyn ymddiheuriadau o’r ochr hon i’r Siambr. Efallai y dylech ddisgwyl i’ch cyd-aelodau Ceidwadol yn y cyn—[Torri ar draws.]
Dafydd Elis-Thomas The Presiding Officer spoken in English p. 12
Dafydd Elis-Thomas Y Llywydd siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 12
Order. Members should stop arguing among themselves and listen to the First Minister’s reply.
Trefn. Dylai Aelodau roi’r gorau i ddadlau ymysg ei gilydd a gwrando ar ateb y Prif Weinidog.
Rhodri Morgan The First Minister spoken in English p. 12
Rhodri Morgan Y Prif Weinidog siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 12
Returning to the level of service that existed before Rhydlafar and its dedicated centre was closed has not been easy. I share your concerns about the problems caused by that decision, and the length of time that it took to isolate the medical outliers at Llandough hospital so that they did not result in the cancellation of operations and so that we could return to the performance seen before Rhydlafar’s closure. We are now achieving that and I think that the number of procedures performed within the Cardiff and Vale NHS Trust has risen from 1,500 to 4,000. I am not sure how that compares with the number of procedures undertaken when Rhydlafar was working flat out—for example, in 1996, before the decision was taken to close it. However, that has been the problem: there has been a period of major strategic change. It may prove right in the long term; I do not know. The decision was taken by your Government and we have continued with it, but it has been difficult to achieve the performance level that existed when Rhydlafar did the elective surgery on a dedicated basis without medical outliers, when we had a joint operation with medical outliers. That problem has now been solved by isolating the two wards that were occasionally taken over by medical cases, thereby causing the cancellation of orthopaedic surgery.
Ni fu’n hawdd dychwelyd at y lefel o wasanaeth a geid cyn cau ysbyty Rhydlafar a’i ganolfan bwrpasol. Rhannaf eich pryderon ynghylch y problemau a achoswyd gan y penderfyniad hwnnw, a’r amser a gymerodd i arwahanu’r cleifion meddygol a oedd mewn wardiau llawfeddygol yn ysbyty Llandochau fel nad oeddent yn peri diddymu llawdriniaethau ac fel y gallem fynd yn ôl at y perfformiad a welid cyn cau ysbyty Rhydlafar. Yr ydym yn cyflawni hynny bellach a chredaf fod nifer y triniaethau a gyflawnwyd yn Ymddiriedolaeth GIG Caerdydd a’r Fro wedi codi o 1,500 i 4,000. Nid wyf yn sicr sut y mae hynny’n cymharu â nifer y triniaethau a wneid pan oedd ysbyty Rhydlafar yn gweithio i’w eithaf—er enghraifft, yn 1996, cyn y penderfyniad i’w gau. Fodd bynnag, honno oedd y broblem: bu cyfnod o newid strategol mawr. Efallai y bydd yn profi’n iawn yn y tymor hir; ni wn. Eich Llywodraeth chi a wnaeth y penderfyniad hwnnw ac yr ydym wedi parhau ag ef, ond bu’n anodd cyflawni’r lefel o berfformiad a geid pan oedd ysbyty Rhydlafar wedi’i neilltuo i gyflawni llawdriniaeth ddewisol heb gleifion meddygol mewn wardiau llawfeddygol, pan oedd gennym weithrediad ar y cyd â chleifion o’r fath. Mae’r broblem honno wedi’i datrys bellach drwy arwahanu’r ddwy ward a gymerid drosodd weithiau gan achosion meddygol, gan beri diddymu llawdriniaethau orthopedig.
Dywedwyd bod gwasanaethau orthopedig yng Nghanol De Cymru mewn argyfwng. A wnewch chi, a’ch Llywodraeth, gymryd camau pendant i gynyddu ac i wella’r ddarpariaeth orthopedig? A fyddech yn ystyried sefydlu canolfan orthopedig arbenigol yn debyg i’r hyn a fodolai yn Rhydlafar?
Orthopaedic services in South Wales Central have been described as being in crisis. Will you, and your Government, take firm action to increase and improve the orthopaedic provision? Would you consider establishing a specialist orthopaedic centre similar to the former centre in Rhydlafar?
Rhodri Morgan Y Prif Weinidog siaradwyd yn Gymraeg t. 13
Rhodri Morgan The First Minister spoken in Welsh p. 13
Nid ydym wedi derbyn cais penodol i ailsefydlu Rhydlafar fersiwn 2, ond bu cryn dipyn o drafod ynghylch hyn ymysg y proffesiynau perthnasol y tu mewn i’r gwasanaeth iechyd gwladol. Yr ydym wedi clywed ambell si mai dyna yw’r ateb yn y pen draw yn eu barn hwy—dychwelyd at yr hen gyfundrefn a ddiddymwyd gan Lywodraeth flaenorol y Torïaid.
We have not received a specific request to re-establish Rhydlafar mark 2, but there has been much talk about this among the relevant professions within the NHS. We have heard rumours that that is what they view as the ultimate solution—a return to the old system that was abolished by the previous Tory Government.
Nid ydym wedi derbyn cais busnes yn ymwneud â’r ardal hon o Gymru nac unrhyw ardal arall. Fodd bynnag, mae Ysgrifennydd Gwladol dros Iechyd y DU wedi dweud mai dyna y mae’n dymuno ei wneud, ond o fewn y sector preifat. Yr ydym ni wedi dweud, pe baem ni yn ei wneud, ni fyddai o fewn y sector preifat. Fodd bynnag, nid yw hynny yn golygu na fyddwn yn ystyried y cais, pe baem yn derbyn cais i sefydlu darpariaeth o’r fath lle mae’r pwysau ar ei waethaf yng Nghymru.
We have not received a business case involving this, or any other, area of Wales. However, the UK Secretary of State for Health has said that that is what he wishes to do, but within the private sector. We have said that, if we were to do this, it would not be within the private sector. However, that does not mean that we would not consider a request, if we were to receive one, to establish a similar provision where the pressures are at their worst in Wales.
Nick Bourne The Leader of the Welsh Conservatives spoken in English p. 13
Nick Bourne Arweinydd Ceidwadwyr Cymru siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 13
We have heard an awful lot of ducking and diving and a refusal by you to accept any responsibility for anything that has happened in the last six years. You will have seen the recent orthopaedic waiting list figures for Gwent that were issued on Friday, which show that 170 patients have been waiting for more than 18 months for orthopaedic surgery. Those figures are the worst, not just in Wales, but across the United Kingdom. Do you share Members’ concerns about those figures? Do you accept that your promises on waiting lists have been hollow and that your predictions and estimates have been totally inaccurate? What do you propose to do about this deplorable state of affairs?
Yr ydym wedi’ch clywed yn osgoi llawer iawn o gwestiynau ac yn gwrthod derbyn unrhyw gyfrifoldeb am ddim a ddigwyddodd yn y chwe blynedd diwethaf. Byddwch wedi gweld ffigurau diweddar y rhestr aros orthopedig ar gyfer Gwent a gyhoeddwyd ddydd Gwener, sy’n dangos bod 170 o gleifion yn disgwyl ers dros 18 mis am lawdriniaeth orthopedig. Y ffigurau hynny yw’r gwaethaf, nid yn unig yng Nghymru, ond drwy’r Deyrnas Unedig. A ydych yn rhannu pryder Aelodau am y ffigurau hynny? A ydych yn derbyn mai gwag fu eich addewidion ar restrau aros ac y bu’ch rhagfynegiadau a’ch amcangyfrifon yn gwbl anghywir? Beth yr ydych yn bwriadu’i wneud am y sefyllfa druenus hon?
Rhodri Morgan The First Minister spoken in English p. 14
Rhodri Morgan Y Prif Weinidog siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 14
I share your concern about the waiting lists for orthopaedic operations in Gwent, as does the Minister for Health and Social Services. You correctly described the situation, which seemed to have improved a great deal last year, but which has now deteriorated again. My understanding is that, of the 200 patients waiting more than 18 months for orthopaedic treatment, 175 are in that one health authority area—mostly in the Newport and Monmouthshire area. That figure of 175 is not acceptable and that is why perhaps the best known ‘waiting-list buster’ in Great Britain, Professor Brian Edwards, has been sent in and is starting work this week. He will report back to the Minister for Health and Social Services in mid January. I hope to report further to the Assembly following the completion of his report in four or five weeks’ time.
Yr wyf yn rhannu’ch pryder am y rhestrau aros am lawdriniaethau orthopedig yng Ngwent, fel y mae’r Gweinidog dros Iechyd a Gwasanaethau Cymdeithasol. Rhoesoch ddisgrifiad cywir o’r sefyllfa, a oedd wedi gwella’n fawr y llynedd yn ôl pob golwg, ond sydd wedi dirywio eto’n awr. Yn ôl yr hyn yr wyf fi’n ei ddeall, o blith y 200 o gleifion sy’n disgwyl ers dros 18 mis am driniaeth orthopedig, mae 175 ohonynt yn ardal yr awdurdod iechyd hwnnw—yn ardal Casnewydd a sir Fynwy gan mwyaf. Nid yw’r ffigur hwnnw o 175 yn dderbyniol a dyna pam y mae’r torrwr rhestrau aros mwyaf adnabyddus ym Mhrydain Fawr, o bosibl, sef yr Athro Brian Edwards, wedi’i anfon yno ac mae’n dechrau gweithio yr wythnos hon. Bydd yn adrodd yn ôl i’r Gweinidog dros Iechyd a Gwasanaethau Cymdeithasol ganol Ionawr. Gobeithiaf adrodd ymhellach i’r Cynulliad ar ôl iddo gwblhau ei adroddiad ymhen pedair neu bum wythnos.
We have heard at least a semi-admission from the First Minister. However, will he now apologise for those forecasts? Will he revise them and admit that they were meaningless? Will he cancel the expensive reorganisation of the health service, which will take essential money from front-line patient care and give it to bureaucratic systems? Will he now make a promise to do that? Thirty-seven new bodies cannot be run at the same cost as the old system. The new system will take money away from patient care and make a bad situation even worse.
Clywsom hanner cyfaddefiad o leiaf gan y Prif Weinidog. Fodd bynnag, a wnaiff ymddiheuro’n awr am y rhagfynegiadau hynny? A wnaiff eu hadolygu a chyfaddef eu bod yn ddiystyr? A wnaiff ddiddymu’r ad-drefnu drud ar y gwasanaeth iechyd, a aiff ag arian hanfodol oddi wrth ofal am gleifion yn y rheng flaen a’i roi i systemau biwrocrataidd? A wnaiff addo’n awr y bydd yn gwneud hynny? Ni ellir rhedeg 37 corff newydd am yr un gost â’r hen system. Bydd y system newydd yn mynd ag arian oddi wrth ofal cleifion ac yn gwaethygu sefyllfa sy’n ddrwg eisoes.
Rhodri Morgan The First Minister spoken in English p. 14
Rhodri Morgan Y Prif Weinidog siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 14
You had better make up your own mind about whether you are interested in long waits for orthopaedic treatment in Gwent or elsewhere in Wales, or whether you are interested in another much more fundamental battle against the reorganisation of the health service. That battle is over and done with. This matter has been legislated for, voted on and approved and will take place on 1 April. If you are interested in orthopaedic waiting lists, your best bet would be to wait for Professor Brian Edwards to report back in a month or five weeks’ time. I assure you that we will ensure that his views and proposals for solving the problem in Gwent—in the southern half, in particular—are heard, so that progress can be made to get rid of orthopaedic waiting lists as quickly as possible. Do not complicate the issues by getting involved in long-gone and lost battles.
Byddai’n well ichi benderfynu ai yn yr aros hir am driniaeth orthopedig yng Ngwent neu rannau eraill o Gymru y mae’ch diddordeb, neu mewn brwydr arall fwy sylfaenol o lawer yn erbyn ad-drefnu’r gwasanaeth iechyd. Mae’r frwydr honno ar ben. Deddfwyd ar y mater hwnnw, pleidleisiwyd arno a’i gymeradwyo a bydd yn digwydd ar 1 Ebrill. Os mai mewn rhestrau aros orthopedig y mae’ch diddordeb, y peth gorau fyddai ichi ddisgwyl i’r Athro Brian Edwards adrodd yn ôl ymhen mis neu bum wythnos. Yr wyf yn eich sicrhau y gwnawn ofalu y bydd gwrandawiad i’w farn a’i gynigion ar gyfer datrys y broblem yng Ngwent—yr hanner deheuol, yn enwedig—fel y gellir gwneud cynnydd i gael gwared â rhestrau aros orthopedig cyn gynted ag y bo modd. Peidiwch â chymhlethu’r materion hyn drwy ymladd hen frwydrau colledig.
Fforwm Economaidd Gogledd Cymru
North Wales Economic Forum
Has the First Minister had any feedback from his Minister for Economic Development following his attendance at the north Wales economic forum? (OAQ21028)
A yw’r Prif Weinidog wedi cael unrhyw adborth oddi wrth ei Weinidog dros Ddatblygu Economaidd ar ôl iddo fod yn fforwm economaidd gogledd Cymru? (OAQ21028)
Rhodri Morgan The First Minister spoken in English p. 15
Rhodri Morgan Y Prif Weinidog siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 15
I am told that the meeting was positive and included presentations on broadband, government relocation, fiscal incentives and operating aids, ‘Wales 4 Innovation’ and sustainable business in Wales. It was well attended by representatives of the local authorities, the Welsh Development Agency, Education and Learning Wales, Jobcentre Plus, the unions, chambers of commerce, colleges, the Wales Tourist Board and the Confederation of British Industry Wales.
Dywedwyd wrthyf fod y cyfarfod yn gadarnhaol ac yn cynnwys cyflwyniadau ar fand eang, ail-leoli llywodraethol, anogaethau cyllidol a chymhorthion gweithredu, ‘Cymru o Blaid Arloesi’ a busnes cynaliadwy yng Nghymru. Yr oedd yno nifer dda o gynrychiolwyr yr awdurdodau lleol, Awdurdod Datblygu Cymru, Dysgu ac Addysgu Cymru, Canolfan Byd Gwaith, yr undebau, siambrau masnach, colegau, Bwrdd Croeso Cymru a Chydffederasiwn Diwydiant Prydain Cymru.
You missed out the fact that, at the meeting, representatives of businesses across north Wales expressed concern about how the Labour Government in the Assembly recognises problems facing businesses in north Wales. On three different occasions, your Minister was asked why your Cabinet does not include an Assembly Member from north Wales. Can you answer that question now please?
Gwnaethoch fethu â sôn am y ffaith bod cynrychiolwyr busnesau ledled y Gogledd wedi mynegi pryder, yn y cyfarfod, am y modd y mae’r Llywodraeth Lafur yn y Cynulliad yn cydnabod problemau sy’n wynebu busnesau yn y Gogledd. Ar dri achlysur gwahanol, gofynnwyd i’ch Gweinidog pam nad yw’ch Cabinet yn cynnwys Aelod Cynulliad o’r Gogledd. A allwch ateb y cwestiwn hwnnw’n awr, os gwelwch yn dda?
Rhodri Morgan The First Minister spoken in English p. 15
Rhodri Morgan Y Prif Weinidog siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 15
I do not know why the economic forum should try to become a political forum—perhaps that is inevitable. I am told that all the material on economic progress, which has been considerable in north Wales, was well received. The unemployment rate in north Wales is now down to 3.1 per cent from 3.5 per cent a year ago. The unemployment figures have fallen from 10,585 in October 2001 to 9,376 in October 2002. I am sure that everyone at the economic forum welcomed that considerable progress.
Ni wn pam y dylai’r fforwm economaidd geisio troi’n fforwm gwleidyddol—mae hynny’n anochel o bosibl. Dywedwyd wrthyf fod yr holl ddeunydd am gynnydd economaidd, a fu’n sylweddol yn y Gogledd, wedi cael derbyniad da. Mae’r gyfradd diweithdra yn y Gogledd wedi gostwng i 3.1 y cant bellach, o 3.5 y cant flwyddyn yn ôl. Mae’r ffigurau diweithdra wedi gostwng o 10,585 yn Hydref 2001 i 9,376 yn Hydref 2002. Yr wyf yn siŵr bod pawb yn y fforwm economaidd wedi croesawu’r cynnydd sylweddol hwnnw.
Transport is an essential component of a successful economy, but the Strategic Rail Authority seems incapable of recognising the north Wales line as a strategic transport link and not a branch line. Do you share my concern that next year, Virgin Trains, which is capable of running trains at more than 100 mph, will sometimes be running services at no more than half that speed in north Wales?
Mae trafnidiaeth yn elfen hollbwysig mewn economi lwyddiannus, ond mae’n ymddangos nad yw’r Awdurdod Rheilffyrdd Strategol yn gallu derbyn mai cyswllt trafnidiaeth strategol yw llinell y Gogledd ac nid llinell leol. A ydych yn rhannu fy mhryder y bydd Virgin Trains, sy’n gallu rhedeg trenau ar fwy na 100 milltir yr awr, yn rhedeg gwasanaethau weithiau ar ddim mwy na hanner y cyflymder hwnnw yn y Gogledd y flwyddyn nesaf?
Rhodri Morgan The First Minister spoken in English p. 16
Rhodri Morgan Y Prif Weinidog siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 16
I have not heard that proposal but Sue Essex, the Minister with responsibility for transport, is present and I am sure that she will have heard about it. We are holding some interesting discussions with the Strategic Rail Authority, as is the Department for Transport. You will be aware of the various dire predictions that it has made—about the difficulties of delivering the railway strategy, the ambitions of many politicians and improvements that members of the travelling public want to see—because of increasing costs and so on. However, there is a major commitment to the huge scheme of improving the north-west main line, which will bring benefits to north Wales; I cannot say what will happen after you leave the north-west main line from Crewe and travel into north Wales. I would have thought that, overall, it would be among the first places to benefit from this ongoing strategic investment.
Nid wyf wedi clywed am y bwriad hwnnw ond mae Sue Essex, y Gweinidog sydd â chyfrifoldeb dros drafnidiaeth, yn bresennol ac yr wyf yn siŵr y bydd wedi clywed am hynny. Yr ydym yn cynnal rhai trafodaethau diddorol gyda’r Awdurdod Rheilffyrdd Strategol, fel y mae’r Adran Drafnidiaeth. Byddwch yn ymwybodol o’r gwahanol broffwydoliaethau du a wnaeth—am yr anawsterau a geir wrth gyflawni’r strategaeth rheilffyrdd, uchelgeisiau llawer o wleidyddion a’r gwelliannau y mae teithwyr o blith y cyhoedd am eu gweld—oherwydd costau cynyddol ac yn y blaen. Fodd bynnag, mae ymrwymiad pwysig i’r cynllun anferth i wella prif linell y gogledd-orllewin, a ddaw â manteision i’r Gogledd; ni allaf ddweud beth a ddigwydd wedi ichi adael prif linell y gogledd-orllewin yn Crewe a theithio i’r Gogledd. Byddwn wedi meddwl, at ei gilydd, y byddai ymysg y mannau cyntaf i gael budd o’r buddsoddiad strategol cyfredol hwn.
Ar yr union bwynt hwnnw, fodd bynnag, bydd y Prif Weinidog yn ymwybodol o’r adroddiadau mai’r unig fasnachfraint reilffyrdd sy’n gorfod torri 20 y cant o’i chost yw masnachfraint Cymru a’r Gororau. A yw’n cytuno ei bod yn hollol afresymol i’r Trysorlys geisio adfachu arian o’r £8 biliwn a wariwyd ar gyfer prif linell gogledd-orllewin Lloegr, ac a yw’n ormod i ofyn iddo ef a’i Lywodraeth ymuno â phob plaid arall yn y Cynulliad i gefnogi fforwm y Gogledd ac i roi ar ddeall i fandariniaid y Trysorlys fod hyn yn gyfan gwbl annerbyniol?
On that precise point, however, the First Minister will be aware of reports that the only rail franchise that must cut 20 per cent of its cost is the Wales and Borders franchise. Does he agree that it is wholly unreasonable for the Treasury to try to claw back moneys from the £8 billion spent on the north-west England main line, and is it too much to ask him and his Government to join every other party in the Assembly in supporting the north Wales forum and to make it understood to Treasury mandarins that this is totally unacceptable?
Rhodri Morgan Y Prif Weinidog siaradwyd yn Gymraeg t. 17
Rhodri Morgan The First Minister spoken in Welsh p. 17
Nid ydym yn gallu cydnabod y ffigur a ymddangosodd yn The Western Mail ddoe, ynglŷn â’r toriad o 20 y cant, gan nad ydym hyd yn hyn wedi gallu darganfod o ble y daeth. Felly, y peth gorau fyddai i Sue Essex ysgrifennu at Dafydd, a rhoi copi o’r llythyr yn y Llyfrgell.
We cannot recognise the figure that appeared in yesterday’s The Western Mail, regarding the 20 per cent cut, because we have as yet been unable to discover its source. Therefore, the best thing would be for Sue Essex to write to Dafydd and to place a copy of the letter in the Library.
Rheoleiddio Gwasanaethau Bysiau
Regulation of Bus Services
Will the First Minister review the need for greater regulation of bus services in Wales? (OAQ21023)
A wnaiff y Prif Weinidog adolygu’r angen am fwy o reoleiddio ar wasanaethau bysiau Cymru? (OAQ21023)
Rhodri Morgan The First Minister spoken in English p. 17
Rhodri Morgan Y Prif Weinidog siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 17
The Transport Act 2000 enables local authorities to propose quality bus contracts, which can specify service requirements. Such contracts require Assembly Government approval. We are working with local authorities and bus operators to develop quality bus partnerships and a kitemark standard, which initially will ensure that quality standards are published for selected routes. We consider that, overall, this is the most likely way to achieve improved standards of bus services while not ruling out quality bus contracts in some circumstances.
Mae’r Ddeddf Trafnidiaeth 2000 yn galluogi awdurdodau lleol i gynnig contractau bysiau o ansawdd da, sy’n gallu dynodi gofynion gwasanaeth. Rhaid i gontractau o’r fath gael eu cymeradwyo gan Lywodraeth y Cynulliad. Yr ydym yn gweithio gydag awdurdodau lleol a gweithredwyr bysiau i ddatblygu partneriaethau bysiau o ansawdd da a safon nod barcutan, a fydd yn sicrhau’n gyntaf y caiff safonau ansawdd eu cyhoeddi ar gyfer llwybrau dethol. Credwn mai hwn, yn gyffredinol, yw’r dull sy’n fwyaf tebygol o wella safonau gwasanaethau bysiau heb ddiystyru contractau bysiau o ansawdd da mewn rhai amgylchiadau.
That is a welcome statement because in my constituency, over the last year, we have had arbitrary changes in bus services and new timetables that do not allow people to get to work or college at an appropriate time. Do you feel that there is a greater need to use these quality bus partnership deals, and even a willingness to move towards quality bus contracts if private service bus companies are not prepared to put customers before profits?
Mae’r datganiad hwnnw i’w groesawu oherwydd yn fy etholaeth i, dros y flwyddyn ddiwethaf, cawsom newidiadau mympwyol mewn gwasanaethau bysiau ac amserlenni newydd nad ydynt yn caniatáu i bobl gyrraedd y gwaith neu’r coleg ar adeg briodol. A deimlwch fod mwy o angen defnyddio’r cytundebau partneriaeth bysiau o ansawdd da hyn, a pharodrwydd i symud tuag at gontractau bysiau o ansawdd da, hyd yn oed, os nad yw cwmnïau bysiau gwasanaeth preifat yn barod i roi cwsmeriaid o flaen elw?
Rhodri Morgan The First Minister spoken in English p. 18
Rhodri Morgan Y Prif Weinidog siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 18
The bus industry is currently highly competitive, and the level of investment that local bus operators are willing to put in to developing their bus services will vary greatly. That is particularly true of those operators attempting to reach areas where patronage is not high—the smaller and more isolated areas, whether in the Valleys or in rural areas. Indications from the response to the free bus travel scheme for pensioners and disabled people have shown that the bus industry is now supported by a kind of guarantee. That scheme has led to a 10 per cent increase in the use made of buses over the past year, which is extremely welcome. Bus operators will base important decisions on it, such as whether or not to buy new buses and lay on new services. That is the best promise for the future.
Mae’r diwydiant bysiau’n dra chystadleuol ar hyn o bryd, a bydd y lefel o fuddsoddiad y mae gweithredwyr bysiau lleol yn barod i’w roi at ddatblygu eu gwasanaethau bysiau’n amrywio’n fawr. Mae hynny’n arbennig o wir am y gweithredwyr hynny sy’n ceisio cyrraedd ardaloedd lle nad oes llawer o gwsmeriaid—yr ardaloedd llai a mwy anghysbell, boed hwy yn y Cymoedd neu yng nghefn gwlad. Yr arwyddion o’r ymateb i’r cynllun teithio ar fysiau am ddim i bensiynwyr a phobl anabl yw bod y diwydiant bysiau’n cael ei gynnal bellach gan fath o warant. Mae’r cynllun hwnnw wedi arwain at gynnydd o 10 y cant yn y defnydd o fysiau dros y flwyddyn a aeth heibio, ac mae hynny i’w groesawu’n fawr. Bydd gweithredwyr bysiau’n seilio penderfyniadau pwysig ar hynny, fel a ddylid prynu bysiau newydd a darparu gwasanaethau newydd ai peidio. Hynny sy’n argoeli’n dda at y dyfodol.
To continue where you left off, First Minister, to be eligible for free bus travel, you are not required to be a pensioner or a disabled person; the only criterion is that you be 60 years of age—presently only for women, but from April, for men. You may be in full-time employment, and any serving Assembly Member or civil servant—provided that they are aged over 60—could benefit from it. What regard has been given to the capacity of bus fleets to cope with growing passenger numbers as a result of the regulations governing free travel?
Gan ddilyn y trywydd hwnnw, Brif Weinidog, er mwyn bod yn gymwys i deithio ar fysiau am ddim, nid oes rhaid ichi fod yn bensiynwr neu’n rhywun anabl; yr unig faen prawf yw bod rhaid ichi fod yn 60 mlwydd oed—ar gyfer menywod yn unig ar hyn o bryd, ond ar gyfer dynion hefyd o Ebrill ymlaen. Gallech fod yn gyflogedig yn llawn amser, a gallai unrhyw Aelod o’r Cynulliad neu was sifil mewn gwasanaeth—ar yr amod eu bod dros 60 oed—elwa ohono. Pa ystyriaeth a roddwyd i allu fflydoedd bysiau i ymdopi â’r niferoedd cynyddol o deithwyr o ganlyniad i’r rheoliadau ar gyfer teithio am ddim?
Rhodri Morgan The First Minister spoken in English p. 18
Rhodri Morgan Y Prif Weinidog siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 18
It is a healthy sign for the bus industry if buses are not running around almost empty with just the driver and one or two people but, rather, running with 20 or 30 passengers. That means revenue and it means that it is worth considering increasing the frequency of buses or extending services. It is much healthier to consider increasing the number of bus services than to wonder whether you ought to cancel services because of semi-empty buses. That is the benefit to the travelling community at large, including people of working age. The bus industry now has a real incentive to invest further, to buy more buses and to provide more services because it knows that pensioners and disabled people who are eligible for free bus passes provide them with a demand base. That makes the running of the industry worthwhile, which will then benefit those who are not eligible for the free bus pass and those who are.
Mae’n arwydd iach i’r diwydiant bysiau os nad yw bysiau’n rhedeg bron yn wag â dim ond y gyrrwr ac un neu ddau o bobl ynddynt ond, yn hytrach, yn cludo 20 neu 30 o deithwyr. Mae hynny’n golygu refeniw ac mae’n golygu ei bod yn werth ystyried rhedeg bysiau’n amlach neu ymestyn gwasanaethau. Peth iachach o lawer yw ystyried cynyddu nifer y gwasanaethau bysiau na meddwl tybed a ddylid diddymu gwasanaethau am fod bysiau’n hanner gwag. Dyna’r budd i deithwyr yn gyffredinol, gan gynnwys rhai mewn oed gweithio. Mae gwir anogaeth yn awr i’r diwydiant bysiau fuddsoddi ymhellach, prynu rhagor o fysiau a darparu rhagor o wasanaethau oherwydd gŵyr fod pensiynwyr a phobl anabl sy’n gymwys i gael tocynnau teithio ar fysiau am ddim yn rhoi sylfaen galw iddo. Mae hynny’n golygu ei bod yn fuddiol rhedeg y diwydiant, a fydd wedyn o fudd i’r rhai nad ydynt yn gymwys i gael tocyn teithio ar fysiau am ddim, yn ogystal â’r rhai sy’n gymwys.
The recent tragic bus accident in the Vale of Glamorgan highlighted the potential danger of large numbers of children travelling on buses that do not have safety belts. Do you think that it is time to consider the regulations that relate to the carriage of children on buses and to possibly update them?
Mae’r ddamwain bws drist ym Mro Morgannwg yn ddiweddar wedi tynnu sylw at y perygl posibl o gael nifer fawr o blant yn teithio ar fysiau sydd heb wregysau diogelwch. A gredwch ei bod yn bryd ystyried y rheoliadau sy’n ymwneud â chludo plant mewn bysiau a’u diweddaru o bosibl?
Rhodri Morgan The First Minister spoken in English p. 19
Rhodri Morgan Y Prif Weinidog siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 19
A police investigation is being carried out into that incident, so I cannot comment. A report may be presented to the Assembly at the appropriate time. However, that tragic accident—I also believe that a bus driver in Newport died on the same day—has made everyone think about the issue of safety and quality. Therefore, I was pleased that Brian asked this question today. This has highlighted the issues surrounding how children travel to school and how many travel on regular service buses, such as that which was involved in the accident in the Vale of Glamorgan. It has also highlighted the provision on such service buses, which carry a large number of children but are not school buses. All the issues surrounding the quality of service buses when large numbers of school children use them will no doubt arise after—and only after—the police have completed their investigations.
Mae’r heddlu’n ymchwilio i’r ddamwain honno, felly ni allaf wneud sylw. Efallai y cyflwynir adroddiad i’r Cynulliad ar yr adeg briodol. Fodd bynnag, mae’r ddamwain drist honno—a chredaf fod gyrrwr bws wedi marw yng Nghasnewydd ar yr un diwrnod—wedi peri i bawb feddwl am fater diogelwch ac ansawdd. Gan hynny, yr oeddwn yn falch bod Brian wedi gofyn y cwestiwn hwn heddiw. Mae hyn wedi tynnu sylw at y materion sy’n ymwneud â’r modd y mae plant yn teithio i’r ysgol a pha nifer sy’n teithio ar fysiau gwasanaeth arferol, fel yr un a oedd yn y ddamwain ym Mro Morgannwg. Mae wedi tynnu sylw hefyd at y ddarpariaeth ar fysiau gwasanaeth o’r fath, sy’n cludo nifer fawr o blant er nad ydynt yn fysiau ysgol. Mae’r holl faterion sy’n ymwneud ag ansawdd bysiau gwasanaeth pan ddefnyddir hwy gan niferoedd mawr o blant ysgol yn sicr o godi ar ôl—a dim ond ar ôl—i’r heddlu gwblhau eu hymchwiliadau.
Polisïau Iechyd
Health Policies
Will the First Minister make a statement on how his Government’s health policies have benefited the people of south-east Wales? (OAQ21004)
A wnaiff y Prif Weinidog ddatganiad ar sut y mae pobl yn ne-ddwyrain Cymru wedi elwa ar bolisïau iechyd ei Lywodraeth? (OAQ21004)
Rhodri Morgan The First Minister spoken in English p. 19
Rhodri Morgan Y Prif Weinidog siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 19
You may wish to return to the subject of orthopaedic services in Gwent, which Nick Bourne raised earlier, but as we have dealt with that issue to some degree already, I will mention the six projects to tackle coronary heart disease in Blaenau Gwent, which were launched in June and which are funded by the inequalities in health fund. These cover angina management, heart failure management, smoking cessation, obesity, general practice exercise referral and risk assessment for coronary heart disease in primary care. They are all part of what we like to consider to be a creative approach to tackling the underlying causes of the excess levels of statistical ill health in Wales, particularly in the Valleys. These projects are among those that we believe are bringing great benefit to the population of Gwent.
Efallai y byddwch am fynd yn ôl at bwnc y gwasanaethau orthopedig yng Ngwent, a gododd Nick Bourne yn gynharach, ond gan ein bod wedi delio â’r mater hwnnw’n barod i ryw raddau, soniaf am y chwe phrosiect i fynd i’r afael â chlefyd coronaidd y galon ym Mlaenau Gwent, a lansiwyd ym Mehefin ac a ariannir drwy’r gronfa anghydraddoldebau mewn iechyd. Mae’r rhain yn ymwneud â rheoli angina, rheoli methiant y galon, rhoi’r gorau i ysmygu, gordewdra, meddygon teulu yn atgyfeirio ar gyfer ymarfer ac asesu risg ar gyfer clefyd coronaidd y galon mewn gofal sylfaenol. Maent oll yn rhan o’r hyn y carwn ei ystyried yn ymagwedd greadigol at fynd i’r afael â’r achosion sydd wrth wraidd y lefelau ystadegol rhy uchel o afiechyd yng Nghymru, yn enwedig yn y Cymoedd. Mae’r prosiectau hynny ymysg y rhai y credwn eu bod yn dod â’r budd mwyaf i bobl Gwent.
As you admitted to Nick Bourne earlier, Gwent now has the longest waiting times in Britain for orthopaedic surgery. Will you explain to my constituents how your restructuring will address that and can you assure me that those waiting times will not decline further?
Fel y gwnaethoch gyfaddef i Nick Bourne yn gynharach, yng Ngwent y mae’r amseroedd aros hwyaf ym Mhrydain bellach am lawdriniaeth orthopedig. A wnewch egluro i’m hetholwyr sut y bydd yr ailstrwythuro’n fodd i ymdrin â hynny ac a allwch fy sicrhau na fydd yr amseroedd aros hynny’n dirywio ymhellach?
Rhodri Morgan The First Minister spoken in English p. 20
Rhodri Morgan Y Prif Weinidog siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 20
They have increased and decreased quite considerably over the past 12 months. We thought that major progress was being made in Gwent, but the situation has deteriorated again. That is one problem that Brian Edwards will address. What more must the Gwent health authority do in its remaining months—and its successor bodies that will take over on 1 April 2003—to reach and then exceed the best waiting time levels, which I believe were recorded some nine months ago? Also, what will it do to prevent the yo-yoing and deterioration of levels that has occurred over the past few months which has led to the position whereby seven eighths of those waiting over 18 months for surgery are in the Gwent area? Waiting times, waiting lists and creatively addressing the underlying causes of excess ill health will be dealt with through local commissioning and local decisions combined with all-Wales commissioning by specialist bodies regarding strategic areas.
Maent wedi cynyddu a gostwng gryn dipyn dros y 12 mis diwethaf. Credem fod cynnydd mawr yn digwydd yng Ngwent, ond mae’r sefyllfa wedi dirywio eto. Dyna un broblem y bydd Brian Edwards yn ymdrin â hi. Beth yn rhagor y mae’n rhaid i awdurdod iechyd Gwent ei wneud yn y misoedd sy’n weddill ganddo—a’r cyrff a fydd yn cymryd drosodd ganddo ar 1 Ebrill 2003—i gyrraedd ac wedyn rhagori ar y lefelau amser aros gorau, a gofnodwyd, mi gredaf, tua naw mis yn ôl? Hefyd, beth a wnaiff I atal y codi a’r gostwng a’r dirywiad yn y lefelau a ddigwyddodd dros y misoedd diwethaf a barodd mai yn ardal Gwent y mae saith o bob wyth o’r rhai sy’n aros ers dros 18 mis am lawdriniaeth? Ymdrinnir ag amseroedd aros, rhestrau aros a rhoi sylw creadigol i’r achosion sydd wrth wraidd afiechyd gormodol drwy gomisiynu lleol a phenderfyniadau lleol ynghyd â chomisiynu ar gyfer Cymru gyfan gan gyrff arbenigol o ran meysydd strategol.
Will you undertake to implement all the recommendations proposed by Professor Edwards, even if they are critical of your present policies?
A wnewch ymgymryd i weithredu’r holl argymhellion a gynigir gan yr Athro Edwards, hyd yn oed os ydynt yn feirniadol o’ch polisïau presennol?
Rhodri Morgan The First Minister spoken in English p. 20
Rhodri Morgan Y Prif Weinidog siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 20
I do not think that Brian Edwards is interested in political policy arguments in the Assembly Chamber, as you are William. I think that he will make practical suggestions as to how to crack the waiting list problem. That is what he became famous for at the Trent area health authority and that is the main basis of his academic work as a professor at, I think, Manchester University. I believe that his practical proposals will be ones that we would be keen to implement quickly, as would Gwent health authority in its remaining months and its successor bodies from 1 April 2003.
Ni chredaf fod Brian Edwards yn ymddiddori mewn dadleuon polisi gwleidyddol yn Siambr y Cynulliad, fel yr ydych chi, William. Credaf y gwnaiff awgrymiadau ymarferol ynghylch sut i ddatrys problem y rhestrau aros. Am hynny y daeth yn enwog yn awdurdod iechyd ardal Trent a dyna brif sail ei waith academaidd fel athro ym Mhrifysgol Manceinion, yr wyf yn credu. Credaf y bydd ei gynigion ymarferol yn rhai y byddem ni’n awyddus i’w gweithredu’n gyflym, fel y byddai awdurdod iechyd Gwent yn y misoedd sydd ar ôl ganddo a’r cyrff a fydd yn ei ddilyn o 1 Ebrill 2003.
Anghenion Trafnidiaeth Cymru
The Transport Needs of Wales
Will the First Minister make a statement on the progress of how he is addressing the transport needs of Wales as a whole? (OAQ21024)
A wnaiff y Prif Weinidog ddatganiad ar hynt y gwaith y mae’n ei wneud o ran mynd i’r afael ag anghenion trafnidiaeth Cymru gyfan? (OAQ21024)
Rhodri Morgan The First Minister spoken in English p. 21
Rhodri Morgan Y Prif Weinidog siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 21
We have established a public transport unit to drive forward policy and technical work, including the quality kitemark, partnerships to improve bus services, and the mainstreaming of community transport. The key issue in terms of railways, as you will be aware, is that by dint of argument from Sue Essex we will not follow the route taken by England to award shorter franchises, as announced by the SRA. Following discussions with the SRA, Sue Essex has said that we will be exempted from that. We will instead have a 15-year franchise, which will allow us to make the quality improvements to the railway system that we have been seeking.
Yr ydym wedi sefydlu uned trafnidiaeth gyhoeddus i hyrwyddo polisi a gwaith technegol, gan gynnwys y nod barcutan ansawdd, partneriaethau i wella gwasanaethau bysiau, a rhoi trafnidiaeth gymunedol yn y brif ffrwd. Y mater allweddol o ran rheilffyrdd, fel y gwyddoch, yw na fyddwn, drwy berswâd Sue Essex, yn dilyn yr un llwybr â Lloegr ac yn dyfarnu masnachfreintiau byrrach, fel y cyhoeddodd yr Awdurdod Rheilffyrdd Strategol. Ar ôl trafodaethau gyda’r awdurdod, mae Sue Essex wedi dweud y cawn ein heithrio rhag hynny. Yn hytrach, cawn fasnachfraint 15 mlynedd, a fydd yn caniatáu inni wella ansawdd y system rheilffyrdd yn y modd y buom yn ei geisio.
Will you join me in condemning the SRA’s demands that bidders for the all-Wales franchise must find savings of at least 10 per cent across the service? As has been mentioned, such a demand only appears to have been made in Wales. This could well lead to Beeching mark 2 for the service in Wales, which is already underfunded and treated as the poor relation of rail services elsewhere in the UK. This comes at a time when we need to encourage more people to leave their cars and use reliable, attractive forms of public transport. Ensuring social inclusion is also part of the equation.
A wnewch ymuno â mi i gollfarnu’r ffaith bod yr Awdurdod Rheilffyrdd Strategol yn mynnu bod ymgeiswyr am fasnachfraint Cymru-gyfan yn canfod arbedion o o leiaf 10 y cant drwy’r gwasanaeth? Fel y dywedwyd, ymddengys mai dim ond yng Nghymru y mynnwyd hynny. Mae’n ddigon posibl y gallai hynny arwain at doriadau eto yn null Beeching yn y gwasanaeth yng Nghymru, sydd eisoes wedi’i danariannu ac yn cael ei drin fel perthynas tlawd i’r gwasanaethau rheilffyrdd mewn rhannau eraill o’r DU. Daw hyn ar adeg pan fo angen inni annog mwy o bobl i adael eu ceir a defnyddio mathau dibynadwy, deniadol o drafnidiaeth gyhoeddus. Mae sicrhau cynhwysiant cymdeithasol hefyd yn rhan o’r hafaliad.
Rhodri Morgan The First Minister spoken in English p. 22
Rhodri Morgan Y Prif Weinidog siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 22
Wales is being treated as a special case in the sense that we have asked for a longer franchise. Franchises have been shortened in England, but not in Wales. It is right that we are allowed to make that choice jointly with the SRA. We have persuaded the authority that Wales is a special case and should have a longer franchise in order to justify the transport improvements and investment that we expect. No-one can expect such improvements to repay the investment made over less than a 15-year period. Sue Essex was successful in putting the argument to the SRA for special treatment. The SRA has made a presentation to the Environment, Planning and Transport Committee, but no mention was made of 10 per cent or 20 per cent savings. However, the SRA made it clear that the decision on which options would be taken forward as part of the new franchise would depend on value for money and affordability at the time of the awarding of the franchise, which, we hope, will take place in 2003.
Mae Cymru’n cael ei thrin fel achos arbennig yn yr ystyr ein bod wedi gofyn am fasnachfraint hwy. Mae’r masnachfreintiau wedi’u byrhau yn Lloegr, ond nid yng Nghymru. Mae’n briodol caniatáu inni wneud y dewis hwnnw ar y cyd â’r Awdurdod Rheilffyrdd Strategol. Yr ydym wedi perswadio’r awdurdod bod Cymru’n achos arbennig ac y dylai gael masnachfraint hwy er mwyn cyfiawnhau’r gwelliannau a’r buddsoddiad mewn trafnidiaeth a ddisgwyliwn. Ni allwn ddisgwyl i welliannau o’r fath ad-dalu’r buddsoddiad a wnaed dros gyfnod o lai na 15 mlynedd. Bu Sue Essex yn llwyddiannus wrth gyflwyno’r ddadl dros driniaeth arbennig i’r awdurdod. Mae’r awdurdod wedi rhoi cyflwyniad i Bwyllgor yr Amgylchedd, Cynllunio a Thrafnidiaeth, ond ni soniwyd am arbedion o 10 y cant neu 20 y cant. Fodd bynnag, mae’r awdurdod wedi rhoi ar ddeall y byddai’r penderfyniad ar y dewisiadau yr eid ymlaen â hwy fel rhan o’r fasnachfraint newydd yn dibynnu ar werth am arian a fforddiadwyedd ar adeg dyfarnu’r fasnachfraint, a fydd yn digwydd, gobeithiwn, yn 2003.
Perhaps we should start to address the transport needs of South Wales Central, particularly the need for a trunk road to Cardiff international airport. This scheme is badly and desperately needed, so that Cardiff international airport can expand and develop to become a successful airport in western Britain. Will you outline why the Government has not considered the need for a trunk road to Cardiff international airport? Is it because you do not have any ambitions to expand the airport, or are you merely opposed to improving the road network?
Efallai y dylem ddechrau ymdrin ag anghenion trafnidiaeth Canol De Cymru, yn enwedig yr angen am gefnffordd i faes awyr rhyngwladol Caerdydd. Mae dirfawr angen y cynllun hwn, fel y gall maes awyr rhyngwladol Caerdydd ehangu a datblygu’n faes awyr llwyddiannus yng ngorllewin Prydain. A wnewch egluro pam nad yw’r Llywodraeth wedi ystyried yr angen am gefnffordd i faes awyr rhyngwladol Caerdydd? A yw hynny am nad yw’n uchelgais gennych ehangu’r maes awyr, neu a ydych ond yn gwrthwynebu gwella’r rhwydwaith ffyrdd?
Rhodri Morgan The First Minister spoken in English p. 22
Rhodri Morgan Y Prif Weinidog siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 22
Thank God you are not the marketing officer for Cardiff international airport; if you keep harping on about how difficult it is to reach an airport, no-one will want to use it. Fortunately, no-one believes you. After lengthy, fruitful negotiations with the Welsh Assembly Government, bmibaby has not only set up its second base at Cardiff international airport, with the first at East Midlands airport, the company has recently announced an extension of its routes from Cardiff. While we always keep under review, on a prioritised basis, the transport requirements of all trunk roads and other local authority roads, including the A40 and A42, bmibaby has proved that it is possible to run effective services at Cardiff, which we hope will double the number of passengers using the airport, from 1.5 million to 3 million, over the next five years. I hope that we can make a success of it together. However, the kind of whingeing we have heard from the sidelines ill becomes anyone who has the genuine interests of Cardiff international airport or air transport passengers in Wales at heart.
Diolch byth nad chi yw’r swyddog marchnata dros faes awyr rhyngwladol Caerdydd; os daliwch i sôn byth a beunydd mor anodd yw cyrraedd maes awyr, ni fydd neb am ei ddefnyddio. Yn ffodus, nid oes neb yn eich coelio. Ar ôl negodiadau hir a ffrwythlon gyda Llywodraeth Cynulliad Cymru, nid yn unig y mae bmibaby wedi sefydlu ei ail ganolfan ym maes awyr rhyngwladol Caerdydd, gyda’r gyntaf ym maes awyr East Midlands, ond mae hefyd wedi cyhoeddi’n ddiweddar y bydd yn ehangu ei lwybrau o Gaerdydd. Er ein bod bob amser yn cadw gofynion trafnidiaeth yr holl gefnffyrdd a ffyrdd awdurdod lleol eraill o dan arolwg, yn ôl eu blaenoriaeth, gan gynnwys yr A40 a’r A42, mae bmibaby wedi profi bod modd rhedeg gwasanaethau effeithiol yng Nghaerdydd, a gobeithiwn y bydd hynny’n dyblu nifer y teithwyr sy’n defnyddio’r maes awyr, o 1.5 miliwn i 3 miliwn, dros y pum mlynedd nesaf. Gobeithiaf y gallwn beri iddo lwyddo gyda’n gilydd. Fodd bynnag, mae’r math o gwyno a glywsom o’r cyrion yn amhriodol i unrhyw un sy’n ymboeni am fuddiannau gwirioneddol maes awyr rhyngwladol Caerdydd neu deithwyr trafnidiaeth awyr yng Nghymru.
Ymchwil a Ariennir gan y Llywodraeth
Government-funded Research
What discussions has the First Minister had with the Secretary of State for Wales to ensure that a fair proportion of Government-funded research should be allocated to Wales? (OAQ21014)
Pa drafodaethau y mae’r Prif Weinidog wedi’u cael gydag Ysgrifennydd Gwladol Cymru i sicrhau bod cyfran deg o ymchwil a ariennir gan y Llywodraeth yn cael ei neilltuo ar gyfer Cymru? (OAQ21014)
Rhodri Morgan The First Minister spoken in English p. 23
Rhodri Morgan Y Prif Weinidog siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 23
You will be aware, Phil, that science contracts are not approved on the basis of fairness, if by fairness we mean that the proportion of Government-funded science research is based on a region’s population. Contracts are based on a bidding process. Fortunately, in terms of last year’s research assessment exercise, Welsh universities, as a collective whole, did very well. This meant that they were in a better position to bid for research council contracts. By comparison with universities in Scotland, the south-east of England and the golden triangle of Oxford and Cambridge universities and Imperial College, London, the universities of Wales, Northern Ireland, northern England and the midlands have generally underperformed in that area, which is sad. The bid to establish a Wales gene park, of which you will be aware, has also proved to be successful. We were not even supposed to be part of that contest, but we managed to enter it by way of sharp elbows. We won a share of the funding for the gene park proposals, which will be beneficial for the three or four universities participating in the project. Welsh universities also did well in the recent funding exercise under the science research infrastructure fund, with the University of Wales, Bangor securing funding for an oceanography boat, which I recently launched, and the University of Wales College of Medicine securing funding for the Henry Wellcome Building for Biomedical Research in Wales, which is currently under construction. It was probably the best round of bidding ever for universities and other science institutions in Wales; it is certainly the best round that I am aware of during the last 30 or 40 years. We should welcome that. However, such funding is not allocated on the basis of fairness. It is allocated by way of a bidding process.
Byddwch yn ymwybodol, Phil, na chymeradwyir contractau gwyddoniaeth ar sail tegwch, os mai’r hyn a olygir wrth degwch yw bod y gyfran o ymchwil wyddonol a ariannir gan y Llywodraeth yn seiliedig ar boblogaeth y rhanbarth. Seilir contractau ar broses ymgeisio. Yn ffodus, o ran ymarfer asesu ymchwil y llynedd, gwnaeth prifysgolion Cymru, gyda’i gilydd, yn dda iawn. Golygai hynny eu bod mewn gwell sefyllfa i ymgeisio am gontractau’r cynghorau ymchwil. O’u cymharu â phrifysgolion yn yr Alban, de-ddwyrain Lloegr a thriongl aur prifysgolion Rhydychen a Chaergrawnt ac Imperial College, Llundain, mae prifysgolion Cymru, Gogledd Iwerddon, gogledd Lloegr a chanolbarth Lloegr wedi tanberfformio’n gyffredinol yn y maes hwnnw, ac mae hynny’n beth trist. Mae’r ymgais i sefydlu parc gwyddorau genynnol, y gwyddoch amdano, wedi llwyddo. Nid oeddem i fod yn rhan o’r gystadleuaeth honno, hyd yn oed, ond llwyddasom i ymwthio iddi. Gwnaethom ennill cyfran o’r cyllid i’r cynigion ar gyfer y parc gwyddorau genynnol, a fydd yn fuddiol i’r tair neu bedair prifysgol sy’n cymryd rhan yn y prosiect. Gwnaeth prifysgolion Cymru’n dda hefyd yn yr ymarfer cyllido diweddar o dan y gronfa seilwaith ymchwil wyddonol, a sicrhaodd Prifysgol Cymru, Bangor gyllid ar gyfer cwch cefnforeg, a lansiais yn ddiweddar; sicrhaodd Coleg Meddygaeth Prifysgol Cymru gyllid ar gyfer Adeilad Henry Wellcome ar gyfer Ymchwil Biomeddygol yng Nghymru, sy’n cael ei adeiladu ar hyn o bryd. Mae’n debyg mai hwnnw oedd y cylch ymgeisio gorau erioed i brifysgolion a sefydliadau gwyddonol eraill yng Nghymru; hwnnw oedd y cylch gorau a gofiaf fi yn y 30 neu 40 mlynedd diwethaf, yn sicr. Dylem groesawu hynny. Fodd bynnag, ni ddyrennir cyllid o’r fath ar sail tegwch. Fe’i dyrennir drwy broses ymgeisio.
At present, only 2.2 per cent of the total budget for Government-funded research is spent in Wales. We do much better where there is an element of fairness and peer review. We do abysmally badly in terms of political decisions on the location of Government and research council laboratories. One such example is the DIAMOND project, of which you will be aware. At the same time, Wales’s share of UK private sector research has dropped to a dismal 1.1 per cent. The situation has deteriorated since the Assembly came into being. Do you agree that, given this shortfall, we have little hope of closing the gap in gross domestic product per capita on the basis of science-driven enterprise? Can you detail any measures by the UK Government to alleviate this, as it handicaps the Welsh economy?
Ar hyn o bryd, dim ond 2.2 y cant o’r holl gyllideb ar gyfer ymchwil a ariannir gan y Llywodraeth a gaiff ei wario yng Nghymru. Gwnawn yn well o lawer pan fo elfen o degwch ac o adolygu gan gymheiriaid. Gwnawn yn affwysol o wael yng nghyd-destun penderfyniadau gwleidyddol ar leoli labordai’r Llywodraeth a’r cynghorau ymchwil. Un enghraifft o’r fath yw prosiect DIAMOND, y gwyddoch amdano. Ar yr un pryd, mae cyfran Cymru o ymchwil y sector preifat yn y DU wedi gostwng yn druenus i 1.1 y cant. Gwaethygodd y sefyllfa ers sefydlu’r Cynulliad. A gytunwch, oherwydd y diffyg hwn, mai prin yw’n gobaith o gau’r bwlch yn y cynnyrch mewnwladol crynswth y pen ar sail menter a ysgogir gan wyddoniaeth? A allwch nodi unrhyw gamau gan Lywodraeth y DU i liniaru hyn, gan ei fod yn rhwystr i economi Cymru?
Rhodri Morgan The First Minister spoken in English p. 24
Rhodri Morgan Y Prif Weinidog siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 24
The situation to which you refer is, in a way, ancient history. It is certainly true that Wales has always had far too few Government-funded research institutions compared with Scotland and south-east England. Indeed, since the closure of the pneumoconiosis research unit at Llandough about 30 years ago and the closure of the polar maritime research station at Barry, the Institute of Grassland and Environmental Research is the only such unit in Wales. There has always only been a few such institutions in Wales, and now only IGER remains. It is sad, but that is our history. Compared with Scotland and south-east England, Wales has never been good at securing such institutions. However, if you are asking what action we have taken on this over the last few years, you should consider the gene park, the last round of SRIF funding—as a result of which we have the new Wellcome building and the University of Wales, Bangor’s oceanography boat—and the establishment of the cancer bank at Velindre hospital, as recently announced by Jane Hutt. We are therefore making breakthroughs.
Mae’r sefyllfa y cyfeiriwch ati’n hen hanes, ar un ystyr. Mae’n sicr yn wir bod gan Gymru ry ychydig o sefydliadau ymchwil a ariannir gan y Llywodraeth erioed o’i chymharu â’r Alban a de-ddwyrain Lloegr. Yn wir, ers cau’r uned ymchwil niwmoconiosis yn Llandochau tua 30 mlynedd yn ôl a chau gorsaf ymchwil morol y pegynnau yn y Barri, y Sefydliad Ymchwil Tir Glas a’r Amgylchedd yw’r unig uned o’r fath yng Nghymru. Dim ond ychydig o unedau o’r fath a fu yng Nghymru erioed, a dim ond y Sefydliad Ymchwil Tir Glas a’r Amgylchedd sydd ar ôl. Mae’n drist, ond felly y bu ein hanes. O’i chymharu â’r Alban a de-ddwyrain Lloegr, ni fu Cymru erioed yn dda am sicrhau sefydliadau o’r fath. Fodd bynnag, os ydych yn gofyn pa gamau a gymerasom ar hyn dros y blynyddoedd diwethaf, dylech ystyried y parc gwyddorau genynnol, cylch cyllido diwethaf y gronfa seilwaith ymchwil wyddonol—y cawsom yr adeilad Wellcome newydd a chwch cefnforeg Prifysgol Cymru, Bangor o ganlyniad iddo—a sefydlu’r banc canser yn ysbyty Felindre, a gyhoeddwyd yn ddiweddar gan Jane Hutt. Felly, yr ydym yn torri drwodd.
You are right in terms of private research. Little research and development is carried out in industry in Wales, and that has always been the case. The closure of a large centre such as the Corus technology centre in Port Talbot—which became vulnerable following the merger of British Steel and Koninklijke Hoogovens—causes a reduction in private research and development activity. Although it was not necessarily science research and development—it may have been in terms of engineering—it was a knock for the research and development base in Wales. As a result, we have converted the centre into another science and engineering research facility, although it probably does not fit the bill in terms of the statistics to which you refer. We are making breakthroughs, and I have listed examples. I hope that you welcome those breakthroughs. If you have any further ideas about where we should go from here, we would all like to hear them, as we all want science research and development in the private sector, the public sector and higher education in Wales to be boosted.
Yr ydych yn gywir o ran ymchwil breifat. Ychydig o ymchwil a datblygu a wneir mewn diwydiant yng Nghymru, ac felly y bu erioed. Mae cau canolfan fawr fel canolfan dechnoleg Corus yn Port Talbot—a oedd mewn sefyllfa fregus ar ôl cyfuno British Steel a Koninklijke Hoogovens—yn peri gostyngiad mewn gweithgaredd ymchwil a datblygu preifat. Er nad ymchwil a datblygu gwyddonol ydoedd o reidrwydd—efallai ei bod yng nghyd-destun peirianneg—yr oedd yn ergyd i’r sylfaen ymchwil a datblygu yng Nghymru. O ganlyniad, yr ydym wedi troi’r ganolfan yn gyfleuster ymchwil gwyddoniaeth a pheirianneg arall, er nad yw’n ateb y diben o ran yr ystadegau y cyfeiriwch atynt, mae’n debyg. Yr ydym yn torri drwodd, ac yr wyf wedi rhestru enghreifftiau. Gobeithiaf eich bod yn eu croesawu. Os oes gennych unrhyw syniadau pellach ynghylch i ble y dylem fynd oddi yma, byddem oll yn hoffi’u clywed, gan ein bod i gyd am weld hwb i ymchwil a datblygu gwyddonol yn y sector preifat, y sector cyhoeddus ac addysg uwch yng Nghymru.
Cyngor Prydain-Iwerddon
British-Irish Council
Will the First Minister make a statement on his attendance at the most recent meeting of the British-Irish council? (OAQ21027)
A wnaiff y Gweinidog ddatganiad ar y cyfarfod mwyaf diweddar y bu ynddo o’r Cyngor Prydain-Iwerddon? (OAQ21027)
Rhodri Morgan The First Minister spoken in English p. 25
Rhodri Morgan Y Prif Weinidog siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 25
I attended the British-Irish Council’s recent meeting, which was held in New Lanark in Scotland, along with the Deputy First Minister and Minister for Rural Development and Wales Abroad and the Finance Minister. The main focus of the summit was social and financial inclusion, on which we share the lead with the Scottish Executive within the council.
Bûm yn bresennol yn y cyfarfod diweddar o Gyngor Prydain-Iwerddon, a gynhaliwyd yn New Lanark yn yr Alban, ynghyd â’r Dirprwy Brif Weinidog a’r Gweinidog dros Ddatblygu Gwledig a Chymru Dramor a’r Gweinidog Cyllid. Rhoddwyd y prif sylw yn yr uwchgynhadledd i gynhwysiant cymdeithasol ac ariannol, yr ydym yn arwain arno, ar y cyd â Gweithrediaeth yr Alban, yn y cyngor.
Do you agree that one of the most striking developments since devolution has been the developing relationship between Wales and Ireland, most recently demonstrated by Mary McAleese’s visit and her warm words in addressing the Assembly and at the Irish Consulate? Do you also agree that there is much development in socio-economic and cultural terms, which is encouraging, and that pursuing this relationship could bring about further developments?
A gytunwch mai un o’r datblygiadau mwyaf trawiadol ers datganoli yw’r berthynas sy’n datblygu rhwng Cymru ac Iwerddon, a ddangoswyd yn fwyaf diweddar gan ymweliad Mary McAleese a’i geiriau cynnes wrth annerch y Cynulliad ac yng Nghonsyliaeth Iwerddon? A gytunwch hefyd fod llawer o ddatblygu yn y cyd-destun cymdeithasol-economaidd a diwylliannol, sy’n galonogol, ac y byddai canlyn y berthynas hon yn gallu peri datblygiadau pellach?
Rhodri Morgan The First Minister spoken in English p. 26
Rhodri Morgan Y Prif Weinidog siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 26
I have already paid tribute to the extraordinary success of the visit to Wales of President Mary McAleese, the head of state of the Irish republic, but I am more than happy to reiterate that tribute. I pay tribute to the success of her visit to Aberystwyth and the Assembly, and also to her conduct at the reception at the office of the Irish Consul General. The success of the visit was largely due to the warmth of her personality, the friendship that she offered, and her interest in political and economic developments in Wales. On the wider issue of the lessons that we can learn from Ireland—how much investment we can get from Ireland, and whether we can jointly promote Wales and Ireland in terms of tourism, culture, minority languages, and transport links to Europe—there is enormous scope for carrying this forward, either directly with the Irish Republic or under the aegis of the British-Irish Council.
Yr wyf eisoes wedi talu teyrnged i lwyddiant rhyfeddol ymweliad yr Arlywydd Mary McAleese, pennaeth gwladwriaeth gweriniaeth Iwerddon, â Chymru, ond yr wyf yn fwy na bodlon ailadrodd y deyrnged honno. Talaf deyrnged hefyd i lwyddiant ei hymweliad ag Aberystwyth a’r Cynulliad, a hefyd i’w harweiniad yn y derbyniad yn swyddfa Conswl Cyffredinol Iwerddon. Yr oedd llwyddiant yr ymweliad yn ganlyniad yn bennaf i’w phersonoliaeth gynnes, y cyfeillgarwch a estynnodd, a’i diddordeb mewn datblygiadau gwleidyddol ac economaidd yng Nghymru. Ar fater ehangach y gwersi y gellir eu dysgu gan Iwerddon—faint o fuddsoddi y gallwn ei gael gan Iwerddon, ac a allwn hyrwyddo Cymru ac Iwerddon ar y cyd yng nghyd-destun twristiaeth, diwylliant, ieithoedd lleiafrifol, a chysylltiadau trafnidiaeth ag Ewrop—mae cyfle mawr i ddwyn hyn yn ei flaen, un ai’n uniongyrchol gyda Gweriniaeth Iwerddon neu dan nawdd Cyngor Prydain-Iwerddon.
What plans are there to develop the British-Irish Inter-parliamentary Body’s role as a backbench body scrutinising the performance of the ministerial British-Irish Council?
Pa gynlluniau a geir i ddatblygu rôl Corff Rhyngseneddol Prydain-Iwerddon fel corff mainc gefn i archwilio perfformiad y Cyngor Prydain-Iwerddon gweinidogol?
Rhodri Morgan The First Minister spoken in English p. 27
Rhodri Morgan Y Prif Weinidog siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 27
I know of no such proposals, but I am sure that it would be of interest to the secretariat, which is jointly held by the UK and Irish Governments. We never want to cut back on parliamentary scrutiny. The British-Irish Council, in its first three years since the Good Friday agreement, has had a rocky existence because of the failure to achieve the stability that we would all love to see in Northern Ireland. It was good to see Paul Murphy, now the Secretary of State for Northern Ireland, at the British-Irish Council’s fourth summit in New Lanark, as well as Des Browne, the Parliamentary Under-secretary of State. However, they were not supposed to be there—David Trimble and Mark Durkan should have been there. They could not be present, which we all recognise is unfortunate. There would have been perhaps twice as many British-Irish Council meetings had there not been instability in Northern Ireland. We hope that there will be stability there in the future. It would then perhaps be timely to consider methods of better parliamentary scrutiny. I would not oppose that, although it will be for London and Dublin to make that decision.
Ni wn am unrhyw fwriad o’r fath, ond yr wyf yn siŵr y byddai o ddiddordeb i’r ysgrifenyddiaeth, a ddelir ar y cyd gan Lywodraethau’r DU ac Iwerddon. Nid ydym byth am gwtogi ar graffu seneddol. Bodolaeth sigledig a gafodd Cyngor Prydain-Iwerddon, yn y tair blynedd cyntaf ers cytundeb Dydd Gwener y Groglith, oherwydd y methiant i sicrhau’r sefydlogrwydd y carem i gyd ei weld yng Ngogledd Iwerddon. Yr oedd yn dda gweld Paul Murphy, sydd bellach yn Ysgrifennydd Gwladol Gogledd Iwerddon, ym mhedwaredd uwchgynhadledd Cyngor Prydain-Iwerddon yn New Lanark, yn ogystal â Des Browne, yr Is-ysgrifennydd Gwladol Seneddol. Serch hynny, nid oeddent i fod yno—David Trimble a Mark Durkan a ddylai fod yno. Ni allent fod yn bresennol, ac yr ydym i gyd yn cydnabod bod hynny’n anffodus. Mae’n bosibl y byddai Cyngor Prydain-Iwerddon wedi cwrdd ddwywaith mor aml oni bai am yr ansefydlogrwydd yng Ngogledd Iwerddon. Gobeithiwn y bydd sefydlogrwydd yno yn y dyfodol. Efallai y byddai’n amserol ystyried gwell dulliau o graffu seneddol bryd hynny. Ni fyddwn yn gwrthwynebu hynny, er mai mater i Lundain a Dulyn fydd y penderfyniad hwnnw.
Pwyntiau o Drefn
Points of Order
Codaf bwynt o drefn byr yn deillio o ateb y Prif Weinidog i Dafydd Wigley. Awgrymodd y câi llythyr ei anfon ato ar fater sydd o ddiddordeb cyffredinol i Aelodau, ac y câi copi ohono ei roi yn y Llyfrgell. A fyddai’n briodol, Lywydd, i ofyn i’r Prif Weinidog drefnu bod copi o’r ateb hwnnw yn mynd at bob Aelod o’r Gogledd, gan bod diddordeb eithaf cyffredinol yn y pwnc?
I raise a brief point of order arising from the First Minister’s response to Dafydd Wigley. He suggested that he would write to him on a matter of general interest to Members, and that a copy of the letter would be placed in the Library. Would it be appropriate, Presiding Officer, to ask the First Minister to arrange for a copy of that reply to go to every north Wales Member, as there is a common interest in the subject?
Dafydd Elis-Thomas Y Llywydd siaradwyd yn Gymraeg t. 27
Dafydd Elis-Thomas The Presiding Officer spoken in Welsh p. 27
Gwelaf fod y Prif Weinidog yn arwyddo cefnogaeth i’r pwynt hwnnw.
I see that the First Minister is indicating support for that point.
I raise a point of order under Standing Order No. 6.3, which relates to oral questions to the First Minister. On several occasions today the standard allocated three minutes per question was spent answering the tabled question and one supplementary question from the original questioner. I am concerned that this reduces the opportunity for ordinary Members to scrutinise the First Minister. I would hate to think that that is tactical.
Codaf bwynt o drefn o dan Reol Sefydlog Rhif 6.3, sy’n ymwneud â chwestiynau llafar i’r Prif Weinidog. Ar sawl achlysur heddiw treuliwyd y tri munud arferol a neilltuir ar gyfer pob cwestiwn yn ateb y cwestiwn a gyflwynwyd ac un cwestiwn atodol gan yr un a ofynnodd y cwestiwn gwreiddiol. Pryderaf fod hyn yn rhoi llai o gyfle i Aelodau cyffredin holi’r Prif Weinidog. Byddai’n gas gennyf feddwl bod hynny’n dactegol.
Dafydd Elis-Thomas The Presiding Officer spoken in English p. 28
Dafydd Elis-Thomas Y Llywydd siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 28
That point of order was rather spoilt by its final clause. The First Minister, in fulfilling his obligations under our Standing Orders, must balance the amount of information made available on individual questions and the opportunity of getting through the list of questions. Under Standing Order No. 6.30, I am obliged to call the Member asking the question to ask a supplementary question, and may then call other Members to ask related supplementary oral questions. Under our system of using a three-minute time limit, Members will be aware that I generally try to call supplementary questions from the Government and the opposition parties in turn, depending on the original questioner. I would welcome, where possible, briefer and more succinct answers and, indeed, more succinct questions. That applies not only to the First Minister but to all Ministers. Some Ministers manage to get through many questions, but that may be on account of the nature of their portfolios—I would not know anything about these matters.
Difethwyd y pwynt o drefn hwnnw braidd gan y cymal olaf. Wrth i’r Prif Weinidog gyflawni ei rwymedigaethau o dan ein Rheolau Sefydlog, rhaid iddo gydbwyso’r wybodaeth a ddarperir ar gwestiynau unigol a’r cyfle i fynd drwy’r rhestr o gwestiynau. O dan Reol Sefydlog Rhif 6.30, rhaid imi alw ar yr Aelod sy’n gofyn y cwestiwn i ofyn cwestiwn atodol, ac wedyn caf alw ar Aelodau eraill i ofyn cwestiynau llafar atodol cysylltiedig. O dan ein system o ddefnyddio terfyn amser tri munud, bydd Aelodau’n ymwybodol fy mod fel arfer yn ceisio galw am gwestiynau atodol gan y Llywodraeth a’r gwrthbleidiau yn eu tro, gan ddibynnu ar bwy a ofynnodd y cwestiwn gwreiddiol. Byddwn yn croesawu atebion byrrach a mwy cryno, lle y bo modd, ac, yn wir, cwestiynau cryno. Mae hynny’n berthnasol nid yn unig i’r Prif Weinidog ond i’r holl Weinidogion. Mae rhai Gweinidogion yn llwyddo i fynd drwy lawer o gwestiynau, ond gallai hynny fod oherwydd natur eu portffolio—ni wn ddim am y materion hyn.
Datganiad ar y Gwasanaeth Iechyd Cyhoeddus Cenedlaethol
Statement on the National Public Health Service
Jane Hutt The Minister for Health and Social Services spoken in English p. 28
Jane Hutt Y Gweinidog dros Iechyd a Gwasanaethau Cymdeithasol siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 28
My statement on the National Public Health Service for Wales has three main strands: the new organisation and progress towards its establishment; how it will work—its specific role in child protection, and how it relates to the development of the Health Protection Agency in England; and the benefits that will result.
Mae tair prif elfen i’m datganiad ar y Gwasanaeth Iechyd Cyhoeddus Cenedlaethol i Gymru: y corff newydd a’r cynnydd tuag at ei sefydlu; sut y bydd yn gweithio—ei rôl benodol wrth amddiffyn plant, a’i gysylltiad â datblygiad yr Asiantaeth Diogelu Iechyd yn Lloegr; a’r buddion a geir o ganlyniad.
The term ‘public health’ covers many functions, including health promotion. In partnership with others inside and outside the NHS, this body is the driving force behind our work to protect and improve people’s health, and to reduce health inequalities in Wales. For local health boards, protecting and improving people’s health is an equal priority alongside commissioning effective and efficient health services. Our targeted action to help people to improve their health is paying dividends in communities across Wales and the National Public Health Service will reinforce that.
Mae’r term ‘iechyd cyhoeddus’ yn cwmpasu llawer o swyddogaethau, gan gynnwys hybu iechyd. Ar y cyd ag eraill y tu mewn a’r tu allan i’r GIG, y corff hwn yw’r grym ysgogol sy’n gefn i’n gwaith o warchod a gwella iechyd pobl, ac i leihau anghydraddoldebau iechyd yng Nghymru. I fyrddau iechyd lleol, mae gwarchod a gwella iechyd pobl yn flaenoriaeth gyfartal ochr yn ochr â chomisiynu gwasanaethau iechyd effeithiol ac effeithlon. Mae’r camau penodol a gymerwn i helpu pobl i wella eu hiechyd yn talu ar eu canfed mewn cymunedau ledled Cymru a bydd y Gwasanaeth Iechyd Cyhoeddus Cenedlaethol yn atgyfnerthu hynny.
The service will exist from 1 April 2003. It will not have statutory functions, but will provide essential resources and expertise to allow local health boards, local authorities and NHS trusts to fulfil theirs. It will bring together public health staff from health authorities with staff from the Public Health Laboratory Service in Wales, including staff of the Communicable Disease Surveillance Centre Wales. It will provide public protection, communicable disease surveillance, prevention and control, and laboratory services. It will help to assess local health needs, advise on evidence-based practice, promote health and wellbeing and develop the capacity for public health in Wales. The service will play a significant part in developing and implementing local health, social care and wellbeing strategies.
Bydd y gwasanaeth yn bodoli o 1 Ebrill 2003 ymlaen. Ni fydd ganddo swyddogaethau statudol, ond bydd yn darparu adnoddau ac arbenigedd hanfodol fel y gall byrddau iechyd lleol, awdurdodau lleol ac ymddiriedolaethau GIG gyflawni eu swyddogaethau hwy. Bydd yn cyfuno staff iechyd cyhoeddus o awdurdodau iechyd a staff o’r Gwasanaeth Labordai Iechyd y Cyhoedd yng Nghymru, gan gynnwys staff Canolfan Arolygu Clefydau Trosglwyddadwy Cymru. Bydd yn amddiffyn y cyhoedd, yn arolygu atal a rheoli clefydau trosglwyddadwy, ac yn cynnig gwasanaethau labordy. Bydd yn helpu i asesu anghenion iechyd lleol, yn cynghori ar ymarfer sy’n seiliedig ar dystiolaeth, yn hybu iechyd a lles ac yn datblygu’r capasiti ar gyfer iechyd cyhoeddus yng Nghymru. Bydd y gwasanaeth yn chwarae rhan bwysig yn y gwaith o ddatblygu a gweithredu strategaethau iechyd, gofal cymdeithasol a lles lleol.
The service will be organised around three regions coterminous to those of the NHS Wales Department. The Public Health Laboratory Service will be a business unit within the national service. The Director of the service, Dr Cerilan Rogers, and three regional directors, have already been appointed. The Velindre NHS Trust will host the service and was selected via an open process. The trust has considerable experience of running all-Wales services and has a strong track record. Its experience will help to develop the service as a strong and efficient organisation.
Trefnir y gwasanaeth ar sail tri rhanbarth sy’n cydffinio â rhai Adran GIG Cymru. Bydd Gwasanaeth Labordai Iechyd y Cyhoedd yn uned fusnes o fewn y gwasanaeth cenedlaethol. Mae Cyfarwyddwr y gwasanaeth, Dr Cerilan Rogers, a’r tri chyfarwyddwr rhanbarthol, wedi’u penodi eisoes. Ymddiriedolaeth GIG Felindre fydd yn gartref i’r gwasanaeth ac fe’i detholwyd drwy broses agored. Mae gan yr ymddiriedolaeth honno gryn brofiad o redeg gwasanaethau i Gymru gyfan ac mae ganddi record dda. Bydd ei phrofiad yn gymorth i ddatblygu’r gwasanaeth fel corff cadarn ac effeithlon.
Approximately 350 staff will transfer to the service when it takes on the core functions of health authorities, as will approximately 130 staff engaged in specific projects. Approximately 300 staff will transfer to the service from the Public Health Laboratory Service Wales. The transfer of staff is on track for completion by 1 April 2003.
Bydd tua 350 o staff yn trosglwyddo i’r gwasanaeth wrth iddo ymgymryd â swyddogaethau craidd yr awdurdodau iechyd, yn ogystal â thua 130 o staff sy’n ymwneud â phrosiectau penodol. Bydd tua 300 o staff yn cael eu trosglwyddo i’r gwasanaeth o Wasanaeth Labordai Iechyd Cyhoeddus Cymru. Rhagwelir y bydd y gwaith o drosglwyddo’r staff wedi’i gwblhau erbyn 1 Ebrill 2003.
The service will provide each local health board with a local public health director who will be part of the board’s management team. The local director, as the main interface between the board and the national service, will be accountable to the local health board chief executive for the delivery of services. The director of the NHS Wales Department will be the accounting officer for the National Public Health Service. On performance and professional standards overall, the service will be accountable to the Chief Medical Officer for Wales. Performance management will be achieved through service level agreements.
Bydd y gwasanaeth yn darparu cyfarwyddwr iechyd cyhoeddus lleol ar gyfer pob bwrdd iechyd lleol a fydd yn rhan o dîm rheoli’r bwrdd. Bydd y cyfarwyddwr lleol, fel y prif ryngwyneb rhwng y bwrdd a’r gwasanaeth cenedlaethol, yn atebol i brif weithredwr y bwrdd iechyd lleol am ddarparu gwasanaethau. Cyfarwyddwr Adran GIG Cymru fydd swyddog cyfrifo’r Gwasanaeth Iechyd Cyhoeddus Cenedlaethol. Am berfformiad a safonau proffesiynol yn gyffredinol, bydd y gwasanaeth yn atebol i Brif Swyddog Meddygol Cymru. Rheolir ei berfformiad drwy gytundebau lefel gwasanaeth.
The all-Wales NHS child protection service will be a key part of the National Public Health Service and will cover all the functions currently ascribed to the health authorities by the Children Act 1989 and in subsequent guidance, notably ‘Working Together to Safeguard Children’. The designated doctors and nurses now based in health authorities will become part of the National Public Health Service. They will continue to work closely with area child protection committees, local authorities, trusts and local health boards as a vital source of professional advice to other health professionals and to social services departments.
Bydd gwasanaeth amddiffyn plant y GIG i Gymru gyfan yn rhan allweddol o’r Gwasanaeth Iechyd Cyhoeddus Cenedlaethol a bydd yn gofalu am yr holl swyddogaethau a briodolir i’r awdurdodau iechyd ar hyn o bryd drwy Ddeddf Plant 1989 ac mewn canllawiau dilynol, yn enwedig ‘Gweithio gyda’n gilydd i Ddiogelu Plant’. Bydd y meddygon a’r nyrsys dynodedig sydd yn yr awdurdodau iechyd yn awr yn dod yn rhan o’r Gwasanaeth Iechyd Cyhoeddus Cenedlaethol. Byddant yn parhau i gydweithio’n agos â phwyllgorau amddiffyn plant ardal, awdurdodau lleol, ymddiriedolaethau a byrddau iechyd lleol gan weithredu fel ffynhonnell hollbwysig o gyngor proffesiynol ar gyfer gweithwyr iechyd proffesiynol eraill ac adrannau gwasanaethau cymdeithasol.
The development of our national service emerged from the public health review. The review looked at the functions of public health. It considered the different partners and roles needed for a comprehensive service to support and strengthen the functions in Wales.
Mae datblygu ein gwasanaeth cenedlaethol yn rhywbeth sy’n deillio o’r adolygiad o iechyd cyhoeddus. Edrychodd yr adolygiad hwnnw ar swyddogaethau iechyd cyhoeddus. Ystyriodd y gwahanol bartneriaid a rolau sydd eu hangen ar gyfer gwasanaeth cynhwysfawr i ategu a chryfhau’r swyddogaethau yng Nghymru.
The Department of Health plans to establish the Health Protection Agency as a special health authority to take on functions under the NHS Act from 1 April 2003. That development for England has provided the opportunity to tailor arrangements in Wales.
Mae’r Adran Iechyd yn bwriadu sefydlu’r Asiantaeth Diogelu Iechyd fel awdurdod iechyd arbennig i ymgymryd â swyddogaethau o dan Ddeddf y GIG o 1 Ebrill 2003. Mae’r datblygiad hwnnw ar gyfer Lloegr wedi cynnig cyfle i deilwra trefniadau yng Nghymru.
The Assembly will retain health emergency planning functions and will work closely with experts in the Department of Health and the Health Protection Agency. The Public Health Laboratory Service has operated as an England and Wales body. The merging of the Public Health Laboratory Service in Wales with our public health resources means there will be a single organisation with the capacity and expertise to address communicable disease as an integrated part of wider action to protect and to improve people’s health. That development has widespread support and many benefits.
Bydd y Cynulliad yn cadw swyddogaethau cynllunio argyfwng iechyd ac yn cydweithio’n agos ag arbenigwyr yn yr Adran Iechyd a’r Asiantaeth Diogelu Iechyd. Mae Gwasanaeth Labordai Iechyd y Cyhoedd wedi gweithredu fel corff i Gymru a Lloegr. Mae cyfuno Gwasanaeth Labordai Iechyd y Cyhoedd yng Nghymru â’n hadnoddau iechyd cyhoeddus yn golygu y bydd un corff a chanddo’r gallu a’r arbenigedd angenrheidiol i ymdrin â chlefydau trosglwyddadwy fel rhan annatod o gamau mwy cyffredinol i warchod a gwella iechyd pobl. Mae cefnogaeth eang i’r datblygiad hwnnw a cheir llawer o fuddion ohono.
The new service will harness to best effect the current skill base for public health in Wales and develop further our critical mass of public health expertise. It will lead to Wales-wide standards of practice and will strengthen professional and clinical networks. Although regional offices will manage resources locally, it will be a national service with resources and expertise available throughout Wales. Creating an integrated public health service to meet the needs of local health boards and others will realise the advantages of local delivery and of a national organisation. It will ensure effective deployment of resources. This is a new beginning for public health in Wales. The development is supported by stakeholders, including, importantly, the staff of public health services and the Public Health Laboratory Service Wales. The service will work with customers to develop its services to ensure that it can respond efficiently and effectively to demands made of it. That will strengthen the public health capacity and infrastructure in Wales at no additional cost, and it will work closely with the Wales Centre for Health. I am confident that the development will help to make a difference to health in Wales, and that it will be a significant contribution to Wales’s social and economic wellbeing.
Y gwasanaeth newydd fydd y cyfrwng mwyaf effeithiol i ddefnyddio’r sylfaen sgiliau bresennol ar gyfer iechyd cyhoeddus yng Nghymru a bydd yn datblygu ein màs critigol o arbenigedd iechyd cyhoeddus ymhellach. Bydd yn arwain at sefydlu safonau ymarfer i Gymru gyfan a bydd yn cryfhau rhwydweithiau proffesiynol a chlinigol. Er mai swyddfeydd rhanbarthol fydd yn rheoli adnoddau’n lleol, bydd yn wasanaeth cenedlaethol a chanddo adnoddau ac arbenigedd a fydd ar gael ledled Cymru. Drwy greu gwasanaeth iechyd cyhoeddus integredig i ddiwallu anghenion byrddau iechyd lleol ac eraill, gellir sicrhau manteision darparu lleol a threfniadaeth genedlaethol. Bydd yn sicrhau y caiff adnoddau eu trefnu’n effeithiol. Mae hyn yn ddechrau newydd i iechyd cyhoeddus yng Nghymru. Cefnogir y datblygiad hwn gan y rhanddeiliaid, ac mae’n bwysig bod hynny’n cynnwys staff gwasanaethau iechyd cyhoeddus a Gwasanaeth Labordai Iechyd y Cyhoedd Cymru. Bydd y gwasanaeth yn gweithio gyda chwsmeriaid i ddatblygu ei wasanaethau i sicrhau y gall ymateb yn effeithiol ac yn effeithlon i’r galwadau a fydd arno. Bydd hynny’n atgyfnerthu’r capasiti a’r seilwaith iechyd cyhoeddus yng Nghymru heb gost ychwanegol, a bydd yn cydweithio’n agos â Chanolfan Iechyd Cymru. Yr wyf yn ffyddiog y bydd y datblygiad hwn yn helpu gydag iechyd yng Nghymru, ac y bydd yn gyfraniad o bwys i les cymdeithasol ac economaidd Cymru.
The National Public Health Service is vital. Abolishing five health authorities, which currently have the public health functions incorporated into their day-to-day running, highlighted the need to devise a new strategic plan for the future; this is it. Local authorities, government agencies and the voluntary sector will be working in partnership with other bodies. As the Minister said, public health falls into several broad strands. Several of them are statutory duties, which can complicate matters. We are primarily talking about public protection such as disease surveillance, prevention and control, environmental hazards, child protection, and the other main category of health improvement, which includes promoting health and wellbeing, healthcare and social planning, laboratory services and so on.
Mae’r Gwasanaeth Iechyd Cyhoeddus Cenedlaethol yn hollbwysig. Yr oedd diddymu pum awdurdod iechyd, y mae’r swyddogaethau iechyd cyhoeddus yn rhan o’u gweithrediad beunyddiol ar hyn o bryd, yn tynnu’r sylw at yr angen i ddyfeisio strategaeth newydd at y dyfodol; a dyma’r strategaeth honno. Bydd awdurdodau lleol, asiantaethau llywodraeth a’r sector gwirfoddol yn gweithio mewn partneriaeth â chyrff eraill. Fel y dywedodd y Gweinidog, mae sawl elfen gyffredinol i iechyd cyhoeddus. Mae nifer ohonynt yn ddyletswyddau statudol, sy’n gallu cymhlethu pethau. Yr ydym yn sôn yn bennaf am warchod y cyhoedd drwy arolygu, atal a rheoli clefydau, peryglon amgylcheddol, amddiffyn plant, a’r prif gategori arall, sef gwella iechyd, sy’n cynnwys hybu iechyd a lles, gofal iechyd a chynllunio cymdeithasol, gwasanaethau labordai ac yn y blaen.
The five current public health directors in the five health authorities in Wales will now be replaced by one national public health director for the NHS in Wales, and by 22 local public health directors allied to the local health boards. What public health services will be provided nationally and what will be provided locally at local health board level? Will the Minister also clarify how child protection services will be organised in this new framework? What will be the Assembly’s relationship with the Wales Centre for Health and the Health Protection Agency, and what are the costs of these new public health arrangements?
Yn lle’r pum cyfarwyddwr iechyd cyhoeddus a geir yn awr yn y pum awdurdod iechyd yng Nghymru, bydd un cyfarwyddwr iechyd cyhoeddus cenedlaethol dros y GIG yng Nghymru, a 22 cyfarwyddwr iechyd cyhoeddus lleol sy’n gysylltiedig â’r byrddau iechyd lleol. Pa wasanaethau iechyd cyhoeddus a ddarperir yn genedlaethol a beth a ddarperir yn lleol ar lefel y byrddau iechyd lleol? A wnaiff y Gweinidog egluro hefyd sut y trefnir gwasanaethau amddiffyn plant yn y fframwaith newydd hwn? Beth fydd perthynas y Cynulliad â Chanolfan Iechyd Cymru a’r Asiantaeth Diogelu Iechyd, a beth yw costau’r trefniadau iechyd cyhoeddus newydd hyn?
As you say, this has emerged from the reorganisation of the health service in Wales, and from the public health review. All public health professionals in Wales considered whether our structure best served the public health function. They considered the health service’s role and responsibilities, some of which are statutory, and some of which are part of that wider health promotion remit. These new arrangements will provide an opportunity to integrate those services, which will include the Public Health Laboratory Service, at a national level across Wales. As Health and Social Services Committee members will know, that service has a key role to play, particularly in relation to communicable disease surveillance, which sits alongside its function. At a local level, the local health board public health directors will play a key role as part of the management team to promote and support the health and wellbeing function of local health boards. In addition the directors will work in partnership, as part of the NHS, with their colleagues in communicable disease, and with the child protection services.
Fel y dywedwch, mae hyn yn deillio o ad-drefnu’r gwasanaeth iechyd yng Nghymru, ac o’r adolygiad o iechyd cyhoeddus. Bu’r holl weithwyr iechyd proffesiynol yng Nghymru yn ystyried a oedd ein strwythur yn cyflawni’r swyddogaeth iechyd cyhoeddus yn y modd gorau. Buont yn ystyried rôl a chyfrifoldebau’r gwasanaeth iechyd, y mae rhai ohonynt yn statudol, ac eraill yn rhan o’r cylch gwaith ehangach hwnnw ar gyfer hybu iechyd. Bydd y trefniadau newydd hyn yn gyfle i integreiddio’r gwasanaethau hynny, a fydd yn cynnwys Gwasanaeth Labordai Iechyd y Cyhoedd, ar lefel genedlaethol ledled Cymru. Fel y gŵyr aelodau’r Pwyllgor Iechyd a Gwasanaethau Cymdeithasol, mae rôl i’w chwarae gan y gwasanaeth hwnnw, yn enwedig mewn cysylltiad ag arolygu clefydau trosglwyddadwy, sy’n mynd law yn llaw â’i swyddogaeth. Ar lefel leol, bydd cyfarwyddwyr iechyd cyhoeddus y byrddau iechyd lleol yn chwarae rôl allweddol fel rhan o’r tîm rheoli i hyrwyddo a chynnal swyddogaeth iechyd a lles y byrddau iechyd lleol. Yn ogystal â hynny, bydd y cyfarwyddwyr yn gweithio mewn partneriaeth, fel rhan o’r GIG, â’u cydweithwyr ym maes clefydau trosglwyddadwy, a chyda’r gwasanaethau amddiffyn plant.
It is important that we are now creating an all-Wales NHS child protection service. It will be located in the NHS, and it will fulfil the duties currently ascribed to health authorities in the Children Act 1989, and in the guidance ‘Working Together to Safeguard Children’, which was published in 2000. In creating this service, we are complying with that guidance because it relates to inter-agency working to safeguard and promote the welfare of children. The Carlile report’s recommendations also promoted inter-agency working. In bringing together all designated doctors and nurses into one body, it will be possible to avoid duplication and to provide cover for leave and unfilled posts much more effectively than previously. Having met those people, I know that the opportunity to work in a team with an all-Wales service has been widely welcomed. The capacity of the designated senior professionals will be strengthened as will their local involvement with area child protection committees and work with local authority departments.
Mae’n bwysig nodi ein bod bellach yn creu gwasanaeth amddiffyn plant i Gymru gyfan yn y GIG. Fe’i lleolir yn y GIG, a bydd yn cyflawni’r dyletswyddau a briodolir yn awr i awdurdodau iechyd yn Neddf Plant 1989, ac yn y canllawiau ‘Gweithio gyda’n gilydd i Ddiogelu Plant’, a gyhoeddwyd yn 2000. Drwy greu’r gwasanaeth hwn, yr ydym yn cydymffurfio â’r canllawiau hynny gan eu bod yn ymwneud â gweithio rhyngasiantaethol i amddiffyn a hyrwyddo lles plant. Yr oedd argymhellion adroddiad Carlile hefyd yn hyrwyddo gweithio rhyngasiantaethol. Drwy gyfuno’r holl feddygon a nyrsys dynodedig mewn un corff, bydd modd osgoi dyblygu a darparu ar gyfer gwyliau a swyddi gwag yn llawer mwy effeithiol nag o’r blaen. Gan fy mod wedi cwrdd â’r bobl hynny, gwn fod croeso cyffredinol i’r cyfle i weithio mewn tîm gyda gwasanaeth i Gymru gyfan. Cryfheir gallu’r uwch weithwyr proffesiynol dynodedig yn ogystal â’u cysylltiad â phwyllgorau amddiffyn plant ardal a’u gwaith gydag adrannau awdurdodau lleol.
As far as our relationship with the Health Protection Agency is concerned, it will be an England and Wales body. However, the Health Protection Agency in England will encompass the English Public Health Laboratory Service, whereas in Wales we will pull that into our National Public Health Service. We will continue to liaise and work with the many national advisory committees that provide expertise and come under the health protection banner on an England and Wales basis. Dai, you will know that the National Focus for Chemical Incidents is based in Cardiff but serves the whole of the UK; the Centre for Applied Microbiology and Research at Porton Down is also part of that. Therefore, the Health Protection Agency relationship will relate to UK-wide specialist functions around health protection. However, as I said, emergency planning will be co-ordinated by the Welsh Assembly Government, in close connection with our colleagues in the Department of Health and the Health Protection Agency.
O ran ein perthynas â’r Asiantaeth Diogelu Iechyd, bydd yn gorff i Gymru a Lloegr. Fodd bynnag, bydd yr Asiantaeth Diogelu Iechyd yn Lloegr yn cwmpasu Gwasanaeth Labordai Iechyd y Cyhoedd Lloegr, tra byddwn ni yng Nghymru’n ei gynnwys yn ein Gwasanaeth Iechyd Cyhoeddus Cenedlaethol. Parhawn i gysylltu a gweithio gyda’r nifer fawr o bwyllgorau ymgynghorol cenedlaethol sy’n darparu arbenigedd ac yn perthyn i faes amddiffyn iechyd ar sail Cymru a Lloegr. Dai, gwyddoch fod y Ffocws Cenedlaethol ar gyfer Digwyddiadau Cemegol wedi’i leoli yng Nghaerdydd ond ei fod yn gwasanaethu’r DU gyfan; mae’r Ganolfan Meicrobioleg Gymwysedig ac Ymchwil yn Porton Down yn rhan o hynny hefyd. Gan hynny, bydd y berthynas â’r Asiantaeth Diogelu Iechyd yn gysylltiedig â swyddogaethau arbenigol yn y DU gyfan sy’n ymwneud ag amddiffyn iechyd. Fodd bynnag, fel y dywedais, cydlynir cynllunio argyfwng gan Lywodraeth Cynulliad Cymru, mewn cysylltiad agos â’r Adran Iechyd a’r Asiantaeth Diogelu Iechyd.
On funding, as with all of the new structures, the National Public Health Service will be required to ensure that new structures cost no more to run than existing structures; we have agreed that with the new National Public Health Service. Most of its costs are associated with staff transferring from existing NHS public health services and from the Public Health and Laboratory Service Wales. The National Public Health Service will ensure that it manages this working together under one body effectively.
O ran ariannu, yn yr un modd â’r holl strwythurau newydd, bydd yn ofynnol i’r Gwasanaeth Iechyd Cyhoeddus Cenedlaethol sicrhau nad yw strwythurau newydd yn costio’n fwy i’w rhedeg na’r strwythurau presennol; yr ydym wedi cytuno ar hynny gyda’r Gwasanaeth Iechyd Cyhoeddus Cenedlaethol. Mae’r rhan fwyaf o’i gostau’n gysylltiedig â throsglwyddo staff o wasanaethau iechyd cyhoeddus presennol y GIG a Gwasanaeth Labordai Iechyd y Cyhoedd Cymru. Bydd y Gwasanaeth Iechyd Cyhoeddus Cenedlaethol yn sicrhau ei fod yn cadw trefn yn effeithiol ar y cydweithio hwn o fewn un corff.
The residents of Cynon Valley have long aspired to have a good public health service, and you will know that we were thrilled when you announced Assembly funding for the redevelopment of Cynon Valley’s community health services in Aberdare last week. Do you agree that the new community hospital, along with two new primary care units, will ensure that Cynon Valley has the top-quality modern health services that have long been campaigned for, and that this development, along with other initiatives in my constituency, will be key to improving local health services for my constituents? Will you also join me in welcoming the open consultation process and public meetings that have led to this announcement and have ensured that the people of Cynon Valley were on board and involved from day one?
Mae trigolion Cwm Cynon yn dyheu ers talwm am gael gwasanaeth iechyd cyhoeddus da, a gwyddoch ein bod wrth ein bodd gyda’ch cyhoeddiad yr wythnos diwethaf y byddai’r Cynulliad yn rhoi cyllid i ailddatblygu gwasanaethau iechyd cymunedol Cwm Cynon yn Aberdâr yr wythnos diwethaf. A gytunwch y bydd yr ysbyty cymunedol newydd, ynghyd â’r ddwy uned gofal sylfaenol newydd, yn sicrhau bod Cwm Cynon yn meddu ar y gwasanaethau iechyd modern o’r safon orau y bu ymgyrchu mor hir i’w cael, ac y bydd y datblygiad hwn, ynghyd â mentrau eraill yn fy etholaeth, yn allweddol i wella gwasanaethau iechyd lleol ar gyfer fy etholwyr? A wnewch ymuno â mi i groesawu’r broses ymgynghori agored a’r cyfarfodydd cyhoeddus a arweiniodd at y cyhoeddiad hwn ac a sicrhaodd fod pobl Cwm Cynon yn rhan o’r fenter o’r diwrnod cyntaf?
Public health directors in the local health boards will be concerned with promoting health and wellbeing in their communities, along with playing their part in managing the commissioning of effective health services. Rhondda Cynon Taf local health group, which will become a local health board in April, has already demonstrated what a local health group can do by bringing together the local population, health professionals, the voluntary sector, patients and carers to plan the changes that are needed to modernise Cynon Valley’s health services through the new arrangements that we launched last week. However, we also need to improve the health of that population in terms of tackling health inequalities. That is fundamental in the Cynon Valley. That will be an important part of the new National Public Health Service’s work, given its local influence through the local public health directors.
Bydd cyfarwyddwyr iechyd cyhoeddus yn y byrddau iechyd lleol yn ymwneud â hybu iechyd a lles yn eu cymunedau, ac yn chwarae eu rhan wrth reoli’r gwaith o gomisiynu gwasanaethau iechyd effeithiol. Mae grŵp iechyd lleol Rhondda Cynon Taf, a ddaw i fod yn fwrdd iechyd lleol ym mis Ebrill, eisoes wedi dangos yr hyn y gall grŵp iechyd lleol ei wneud drwy ddod â’r bobl leol, gweithwyr iechyd proffesiynol, y sector gwirfoddol, cleifion a gofalwyr at ei gilydd i gynllunio’r newidiadau sydd eu hangen i foderneiddio gwasanaethau iechyd Cwm Cynon drwy’r trefniadau newydd y gwnaethom eu lansio’r wythnos diwethaf. Fodd bynnag, rhaid inni hefyd wella iechyd y boblogaeth honno drwy fynd i’r afael ag anghydraddoldebau iechyd. Mae hynny’n hollbwysig yng Nghwm Cynon. Bydd hynny’n rhan bwysig o waith y Gwasanaeth Iechyd Cyhoeddus Cenedlaethol newydd, oherwydd ei ddylanwad lleol drwy’r cyfarwyddwyr iechyd cyhoeddus lleol.
I welcome these proposals grudgingly because at least they save us from the shambles of having 22 local public health departments, which was always a non-starter, as, in fairness, you conceded when you proposed the 22 mini health authorities. We now have a confused and convoluted structure and I hope that you will take this opportunity to at least shed light on some of the practical problems that this proposal will bring. The new body will not be a statutory body, so let us remember that the statutory responsibility to execute public health functions will remain with the 22 local health boards. That has not been removed from them, even though this national organisation will provide each local director of public health. Therefore, will you confirm that the statutory functions on public health remain with the successor bodies to the health authorities, namely, the 22 local health boards? They will be ultimately responsible for the execution of public health functions, not this non-statutory organisation that will be part of the National Assembly; this could create some conflict of interest. It confuses roles in that directors of public health would be employed by the Assembly, but would have their statutory responsibilities based in the local health boards of which they are members.
Croesawaf y cynigion hyn yn anfoddog gan eu bod o leiaf yn ein cadw rhag y llanastr o gael 22 adran iechyd cyhoeddus leol, na fu erioed yn bosibilrwydd, fel y gwnaethoch dderbyn, er tegwch i chi, pan wnaethoch gynnig y 22 awdurdod iechyd bach. Bellach mae gennym strwythur dryslyd a chymhleth a gobeithiaf y gwnewch achub ar y cyfle hwn i daflu rhywfaint o oleuni o leiaf ar rai o’r problemau ymarferol a ddaw yn sgîl y cynnig hwn. Nid corff statudol fydd y corff newydd, felly gadewch inni gofio y bydd y cyfrifoldeb statudol dros gyflawni swyddogaethau iechyd cyhoeddus yn dal i fod gan y 22 bwrdd iechyd lleol. Ni thynnwyd hynny oddi arnynt, er mai’r corff cenedlaethol hwn fydd yn darparu pob cyfarwyddwr iechyd cyhoeddus lleol. Gan hynny, a wnewch gadarnhau y bydd y swyddogaethau statudol o ran iechyd cyhoeddus yn aros gyda’r cyrff sy’n olynu’r awdurdodau iechyd, sef y 22 bwrdd iechyd lleol? Hwy fydd yn gyfrifol yn y pen draw am gyflawni swyddogaethau iechyd cyhoeddus, nid y corff anstatudol hwn a fydd yn rhan o’r Cynulliad Cenedlaethol; gallai hynny greu rhywfaint o wrthdaro buddiannau. Mae’n cymysgu rolau i’r graddau y câi cyfarwyddwyr iechyd cyhoeddus eu cyflogi gan y Cynulliad, er bod eu cyfrifoldebau statudol wedi’u lleoli yn y byrddau iechyd lleol y byddent yn aelodau ohonynt.
Local public health directors will be appointed by this national body. The important question arises as to whether they will be able to serve on more than one local health board, or whether they will be restricted to holding a directorship of only one local health board in Wales. That is important if that person is to be single-minded in executing the public health functions for a particular local health board.
Penodir cyfarwyddwyr iechyd cyhoeddus lleol gan y corff cenedlaethol hwn. Y cwestiwn pwysig sy’n codi yw a fyddant yn gallu gwasanaethu ar fwy nag un bwrdd iechyd lleol, ynteu ai dim ond ar un bwrdd iechyd lleol yng Nghymru y cânt fod yn gyfarwyddwr. Mae hynny’n bwysig os yw’r person hwnnw i gyflawni’r swyddogaethau iechyd cyhoeddus ar ran bwrdd iechyd lleol penodol mewn modd diwyro.
Finally, how will this body, which will be absorbed into the Assembly, have the arm’s-length operational approach needed when dedicated professionals have particular responsibilities for public health functions? These are responsibilities that, to date, we have always wanted to remove from Government, but now they will be with the Government of the National Assembly instead of old-fashioned health authorities or the new organisations, which obviously, because they are so fragmented, could not possibly execute these functions as hitherto has been the case.
Yn olaf, gan y bydd y corff hwn yn cael ei lyncu gan y Cynulliad, sut y bydd yn meddu ar y dull gweithredu hyd braich sydd ei angen pan fo gan weithwyr proffesiynol neilltuol gyfrifoldebau penodol dros swyddogaethau iechyd cyhoeddus? Dyma gyfrifoldebau y buom, hyd yma, yn awyddus i’w tynnu oddi ar Lywodraeth, ond bellach byddant yn nwylo Llywodraeth y Cynulliad Cenedlaethol yn hytrach nag awdurdodau iechyd hen-ffasiwn neu’r cyrff newydd na fyddai modd yn y byd iddynt gyflawni’r swyddogaethau hyn, wrth gwrs, fel y gwnaed cyn hyn, am eu bod mor dameidiog.
I am glad that you have given grudging support. That is a great step forward from your party leader’s earlier remarks. Professor Siân Griffiths, the president of the Faculty of Public Health Medicine, visited Wales recently and was extremely positive about the developments taking place here, as are the public health professionals. Of course this goes back to listening to consultation. As you recall from last year, when we had extensive scrutiny and debate and consultation about the public health service, an important feature to emerge from that was the desire for our public health professionals in Wales to avoid becoming civil servants and part of the Assembly to ensure their independence and ability to be the public health advocates that their profession has enabled them to be. It is important that we look at the relationship, performance and accountability arrangements at the national level.
Yr wyf yn falch eich bod wedi rhoi’ch cefnogaeth yn anfoddog. Mae hynny’n gam mawr ymlaen oddi ar sylwadau cynharach arweinydd eich plaid. Ymwelodd yr Athro Siân Griffiths, llywydd y Gyfadran Meddygaeth Iechyd Cyhoeddus, â Chymru’n ddiweddar ac yr oedd yn gadarnhaol tu hwnt am y digwyddiadau yma, fel y mae’r gweithwyr iechyd cyhoeddus proffesiynol. Wrth gwrs, mae hyn yn ganlyniad i wrando ar yr ymateb i ymgynghori. Fel y cofiwch, pan gawsom graffu a dadlau ac ymgynghori helaeth y llynedd am y gwasanaeth iechyd cyhoeddus, un agwedd bwysig a ddaeth i’r amlwg oedd yr awydd i’n gweithwyr iechyd cyhoeddus proffesiynol yng Nghymru beidio â throi’n weision sifil ac yn rhan o’r Cynulliad er mwyn sicrhau eu hannibyniaeth a’u gallu i ddadlau dros iechyd cyhoeddus fel y mae eu proffesiwn wedi eu galluogi i wneud. Mae’n bwysig inni edrych ar y berthynas, y perfformiad a’r trefniadau atebolrwydd ar lefel genedlaethol.
As I said, the local director of public health will be accountable to the local health board chief executive for the services, performance and delivery of those public health services locally. The directors will be part of the management team, which will have the statutory duty to commission the services and develop health, social care and wellbeing strategies. They will be a part of the statutory make-up of the local health board. However, the local director will also be the main interface between the National Public Health Service, responsible for facilitating access by the local health board to wider resources and the expertise of the National Public Health Service which may not be locally based. That is the case in existing arrangements between our health authority directors of public health, which also have that interface role of advising local government, particularly around issues of communicable diseases and with reference to the Chief Medical Officer in relation to accountability on a professional level. Discussions are now being held between the National Public Health Service and local health boards on the specific accountabilities of local public health directors within the system. Obviously, I will share with you that draft role specification as that emerges through consultation. We do not envisage that a public health director would serve on more than one local health board; we would want them to serve the local population. However, they may have expertise that could be applied across Wales—regionally or nationally. We are aiming at appointing one public health director to each local health board, David, which I think is important.
Fel y dywedais, bydd y cyfarwyddwr iechyd cyhoeddus lleol yn atebol i brif weithredwr y bwrdd iechyd lleol am y gwasanaethau, y perfformiad a darparu’r gwasanaethau iechyd cyhoeddus hynny’n lleol. Bydd y cyfarwyddwyr yn rhan o’r tîm rheoli, a fydd dan ddyletswydd statudol i gomisiynu’r gwasanaethau a datblygu strategaethau iechyd, gofal cymdeithasol a lles. Byddant yn rhan o wneuthuriad statudol y bwrdd iechyd lleol. Fodd bynnag, y cyfarwyddwr lleol hefyd fydd y prif gysylltiad rhwng y Gwasanaeth Iechyd Cyhoeddus Cenedlaethol, a fydd yn gyfrifol am alluogi’r bwrdd iechyd lleol i gael defnyddio adnoddau ehangach, ac arbenigedd y Gwasanaeth Iechyd Cyhoeddus Cenedlaethol y mae’n bosibl na fydd ar gael yn lleol. Dyna’r sefyllfa yn y trefniadau presennol rhwng cyfarwyddwyr iechyd cyhoeddus ein hawdurdodau iechyd, sydd hefyd â’r rôl gysylltu honno o gynghori llywodraeth leol, yn enwedig ynghylch materion sy’n ymwneud â chlefydau trosglwyddadwy ac mewn cysylltiad â’r Prif Swyddog Meddygol o ran atebolrwydd ar lefel broffesiynol. Cynhelir trafodaethau’n awr rhwng y Gwasanaeth Iechyd Cyhoeddus Cenedlaethol a’r byrddau iechyd lleol ar atebolrwydd penodol cyfarwyddwyr iechyd cyhoeddus lleol o fewn y system. Wrth gwrs, rhoddaf wybod am y fanyleb rôl ddrafft honno wrth iddi ddatblygu drwy ymgynghori. Ni ragwelwn y bydd cyfarwyddwr iechyd cyhoeddus yn gwasanaethu ar fwy nag un bwrdd iechyd lleol; byddem yn dymuno iddo wasanaethu’r boblogaeth leol. Er hynny, efallai y bydd ganddo arbenigedd y gellid ei ddefnyddio ledled Cymru—yn rhanbarthol neu’n genedlaethol. Ein nod yw penodi un cyfarwyddwr iechyd cyhoeddus i bob bwrdd iechyd lleol, David, a chredaf fod hynny’n bwysig.
On overall performance and professional standards, the National Public Health Service will be accountable to the Chief Medical Officer. Accountability will not lie with the Assembly. This is a crucial issue, because professional accountability in public health is well recognised. Accountabilities will also lie with the Chief Dental Officer and the Chief Pharmaceutical Officer. We must recognise that the national director and regional directors of the National Public Health Service are professionals in their own right and will also monitor professional standards.
O ran perfformiad cyffredinol a safonau proffesiynol, bydd y Gwasanaeth Iechyd Cyhoeddus Cenedlaethol yn atebol i’r Prif Swyddog Meddygol. Nid i’r Cynulliad y bydd yn atebol. Mae hwn yn fater hollbwysig, gan fod atebolrwydd proffesiynol mewn iechyd cyhoeddus yn dra chyfarwydd. Bydd yn atebol hefyd i’r Prif Swyddog Deintyddol a’r Prif Swyddog Fferyllol. Rhaid inni gydnabod bod cyfarwyddwr cenedlaethol a chyfarwyddwyr rhanbarthol y Gwasanaeth Iechyd Cyhoeddus Cenedlaethol yn weithwyr proffesiynol eu hunain ac y byddant hwythau’n monitro safonau proffesiynol.
Performance monitoring is key to the way we take the service forward. This is an opportunity to provide a national service that delivers locally. Performance will be monitored through a performance management framework developed from a service level agreement between the Assembly and Velindre NHS Trust. This is the trust that will employ the National Public Health Service staff. The agreement will cover the broad services to be provided to local health boards, local government and the NHS. To answer Dai’s points, although the Wales Centre for Health will have a close working relationship with the Assembly and the National Public Health Service, it will be a completely independent body that scrutinises and researches, provides advice and guidance, and develops expertise.
Mae monitro perfformiad yn allweddol i’r modd y byddwn yn dwyn y gwasanaeth yn ei flaen. Dyma gyfle i ddarparu gwasanaeth cenedlaethol sy’n gweithredu’n lleol. Caiff y perfformiad ei fonitro drwy fframwaith rheoli perfformiad a ddatblygwyd ar sail cytundeb lefel gwasanaeth rhwng y Cynulliad ac Ymddiriedolaeth GIG Felindre. Hon yw’r ymddiriedolaeth a fydd yn cyflogi staff y Gwasanaeth Iechyd Cyhoeddus Cenedlaethol. Bydd y cytundeb yn cynnwys y gwasanaethau cyffredinol sydd i’w darparu ar gyfer byrddau iechyd lleol, llywodraeth leol a’r GIG. Er mwyn ateb y pwyntiau a wnaeth Dai, er y bydd perthynas gweithio agos rhwng Canolfan Iechyd Cymru a’r Cynulliad a’r Gwasanaeth Iechyd Cyhoeddus Cenedlaethol, bydd yn gorff cwbl annibynnol sy’n archwilio ac yn ymchwilio, yn darparu cyngor a chyfarwyddyd, ac yn datblygu arbenigedd.
I welcome this statement and the development of the National Public Health Service. The relationship with various bodies and the way in which the service will operate has been thought through in great detail. We are benefiting from that work today. Having a national service that delivers locally gives us an opportunity to deliver public health services in a more strategic way across Wales and to concentrate on specific problems and campaigns. We had a statement to mark World AIDS Day last week. HIV is perhaps one issue on which the service could concentrate and it could provide a strategic overview of the work of various health bodies in this regard. Will you comment on how you envisage this aspect of the service working?
Croesawaf y datganiad hwn a datblygu’r Gwasanaeth Iechyd Cyhoeddus Cenedlaethol. Mae’r berthynas â gwahanol gyrff a dull gweithredu’r gwasanaeth wedi’u hystyried yn fanwl iawn. Yr ydym yn elwa ar y gwaith hwnnw heddiw. O gael gwasanaeth cenedlaethol sy’n gweithredu’n lleol, cawn gyfle i ddarparu gwasanaethau iechyd cyhoeddus yn fwy strategol ledled Cymru ac i ganolbwyntio ar broblemau ac ymgyrchoedd penodol. Cawsom ddatganiad i nodi Diwrnod AIDS y Byd yr wythnos diwethaf. Efallai fod HIV yn un mater y gallai’r gwasanaeth ganolbwyntio arno a gallai ddarparu trosolwg strategol ar waith gwahanol gyrff iechyd yn hyn o beth. A wnewch chi sylw am y modd y rhagwelwch y bydd yr agwedd hon ar y gwasanaeth yn gweithio?
We must also consider how the service will work with local councils, the Assembly and the new health boards to improve health in deprived areas. How do you envisage this strategic role developing? In referring to how the service will work with the National Assembly, will you explain how you will improve liaison between a national service to be delivered locally and local councils, which retain health and environmental responsibilities? How will this relationship work?
Rhaid inni hefyd ystyried sut y bydd y gwasanaeth yn gweithio gyda chynghorau lleol, y Cynulliad a’r byrddau iechyd newydd i wella iechyd mewn ardaloedd difreintiedig. Sut y rhagwelwch y bydd y rôl strategol hon yn datblygu? Wrth gyfeirio at y modd y bydd y gwasanaeth yn gweithio gyda’r Cynulliad Cenedlaethol, a wnewch chi egluro sut y byddwch yn gwella’r cyswllt rhwng gwasanaeth cenedlaethol sydd i’w weithredu’n lleol a chynghorau lleol, a fydd yn parhau’n gyfrifol am faterion yn ymwneud ag iechyd a’r amgylchedd? Sut y bydd y berthynas hon yn gweithio?
This is about bringing together a national service with national strategic aims, objectives and delivery. At present, we have a public health service delivered via the five health authorities. We are now establishing one service that will involve public health professionals across Wales with expertise ranging from communicable diseases to health promotion issues such as smoking cessation and sexual health strategies. Each area of expertise used to come under the public health directors in the five health authorities. We are now bringing them together on an all-Wales basis and using an all-Wales strategic approach. At a local level, directors of public health will be members of local health boards’ executive team and will work alongside professionals from the primary care sector and link closely to local government officer representation on the local health board, elected members and patients and carers from the voluntary sector. There will be a real opportunity to take the work forward, for example, through the local health alliances. Many will know that they have been led by local government, and they have done much to promote health action in terms of prevention and the promotion of health and wellbeing. The local director of public health will have a much closer and more local role and feel for the needs of the population and the strategies that are developed locally to meet, for example, health inequality challenges. This will enable the health board, with the director of public health right at its heart and working with local government, to address issues that might arise through Communities First projects, for example, through better housing and health connections, or through environmental health connections. Public health and protection has a statutory role in local government. It will now have a public health director on the doorstep as part of the team, which will be a real step forward.
Mae hyn yn fater o greu gwasanaeth cenedlaethol a chanddo nodau, amcanion a dulliau darparu cenedlaethol. Ar hyn o bryd, mae gennym wasanaeth iechyd cyhoeddus a ddarperir drwy’r pum awdurdod iechyd. Yr ydym bellach yn sefydlu un gwasanaeth a fydd yn cynnwys gweithwyr iechyd cyhoeddus proffesiynol ledled Cymru sydd ag arbenigedd yn amrywio o glefydau trosglwyddadwy i faterion hybu iechyd fel rhoi’r gorau i ysmygu a strategaeth iechyd rhywiol. Yr oedd pob maes arbenigedd yn arfer dod o dan y cyfarwyddwyr iechyd cyhoeddus yn y pum awdurdod iechyd. Yn awr, yr ydym yn dod â hwy at ei gilydd ar sail Cymru gyfan ac yn defnyddio strategaeth i Gymru gyfan. Ar lefel leol, bydd cyfarwyddwyr iechyd cyhoeddus yn aelodau o dîm gweithredu’r byrddau iechyd lleol a byddant yn gweithio ochr yn ochr â gweithwyr proffesiynol yn y sector gofal sylfaenol ac yn cadw mewn cysylltiad agos â’r swyddogion sy’n cynrychioli llywodraeth leol ar y bwrdd iechyd lleol, yr aelodau etholedig a chleifion a gofalwyr o’r sector gwirfoddol. Bydd cyfle gwirioneddol i fwrw ymlaen â’r gwaith, er enghraifft, drwy’r cynghreiriau iechyd lleol. Fel y gŵyr llawer, fe’u harweiniwyd gan lywodraeth leol, a gwnaethant lawer i hybu gweithredu ar iechyd o ran atal afiechyd a hyrwyddo iechyd a lles. Bydd gan y cyfarwyddwr iechyd cyhoeddus lleol rôl agosach o lawer a mwy lleol ac ymwybyddiaeth o anghenion y boblogaeth a’r strategaethau a ddatblygir yn lleol i ateb yr heriau o ran anghydraddoldebau iechyd, er enghraifft. Bydd hyn yn galluogi’r bwrdd iechyd, a’r cyfarwyddwr iechyd cyhoeddus yn ganolog iddo ac yn gweithio gyda llywodraeth leol, i ymdrin â materion a allai godi drwy brosiectau Cymunedau yn Gyntaf, er enghraifft, drwy well cysylltiadau yng nghyd-destun tai ac iechyd, neu drwy gysylltiadau ag iechyd amgylcheddol. Mae gofalu am iechyd cyhoeddus a gwarchod y cyhoedd yn rôl statudol i lywodraeth leol. Yn awr, bydd ganddi gyfarwyddwr iechyd cyhoeddus wrth law yn rhan o’r tîm, a bydd hynny’n gam pwysig ymlaen.
One of the National Public Health Service’s first acts was to invite the Agency for Toxic Substances and Disease Registry of America to advise on the effects of the Nantygwyddon landfill site on the health of local communities. It was due to report in four weeks. It is now nearly six weeks since its visit. When do you expect its report?
Un o gamau cyntaf y Gwasanaeth Iechyd Cyhoeddus Cenedlaethol oedd gwahodd Asiantaeth Sylweddau Gwenwynig a Chofrestrfa Clefydau America i’w gynghori ar effeithiau safle tirlenwi Nantygwyddon ar iechyd cymunedau lleol. Yr oedd i fod i adrodd o fewn pedair wythnos. Y mae bron chwe wythnos bellach ers ei hymweliad. Pa bryd yr ydych yn disgwyl cael adroddiad ganddi?
Your question does not relate to this statement, but I will inform you of the latest information on the report, which was commissioned by the Wales Centre for Health.
Nid yw’ch cwestiwn yn ymwneud â’r datganiad hwn, ond rhoddaf wybod i chi am y wybodaeth ddiweddaraf am yr adroddiad, a gomisiynwyd gan Ganolfan Iechyd Cymru.
I welcome your announcement on the establishment of the all-Wales NHS child protection service and your assurance that the service will work closely with area child protection committees, local authorities, trusts and local health boards. I hope that this service will promote consistency and assist in identifying and sharing best practice. This is indeed good news, Minister. I hope that is receives due recognition in the media.
Croesawaf eich cyhoeddiad am sefydlu gwasanaeth amddiffyn plant y GIG i Gymru gyfan a’r sicrwydd a roesoch y bydd y gwasanaeth yn cydweithio’n agos â phwyllgorau amddiffyn plant rhanbarthol, awdurdodau lleol, ymddiriedolaethau a byrddau iechyd lleol. Gobeithiaf y bydd y gwasanaeth hwn yn hybu cysondeb ac yn helpu i nodi a rhannu’r arferion gorau. Dyma newyddion da, yn wir, Weinidog. Hyderaf y caiff gydnabyddiaeth ddyladwy yn y cyfryngau.
I welcome your remarks. Those working at the sharp end in the health service and in social services have welcomed this.
Croesawaf eich sylwadau. Mae’r rhai sy’n gweithio yn rheng flaen y gwasanaethau iechyd a chymdeithasol wedi croesawu hyn.
I would welcome this public health service for Wales if it would benefit Welsh farmers. I regularly attend Food Standards Agency meetings where a major concern is the problems throughout Europe with meat inspection and standards. At its last meeting, the Food Standards Agency said that some public health authorities in Europe take on the costs of meat inspection. A problem in Wales is the great injustice to Welsh farmers and the amount that we pay to maintain these standards. In Europe, however, some of the costs are borne by the public health service and are not passed on to farmers. Also, to meet regulations, they are invoicing the inspection charges at the abattoirs and not collecting the money, and that goes to the law. Therefore, perhaps this public health service for Wales could consider supporting Welsh farmers and meet some of these expensive costs.
Byddwn i’n croesawu’r gwasanaeth iechyd cyhoeddus hwn i Gymru pe byddai o fudd i ffermwyr Cymru. Yr wyf yn mynychu cyfarfodydd o’r Asiantaeth Safonau Bwyd yn rheolaidd lle y mae’r problemau ledled Ewrop ynghylch archwilio a safonau cig yn bryder mawr. Yn ei chyfarfod diwethaf, dywedodd yr Asiantaeth Safonau Bwyd fod rhai awdurdodau iechyd cyhoeddus yn Ewrop yn talu costau archwilio cig. Un broblem yng Nghymru yw’r anghyfiawnder mawr a wneir â ffermwyr Cymru a’r arian a dalwn i gynnal y safonau hyn. Yn Ewrop, fodd bynnag, telir rhai o’r costau gan y gwasanaeth iechyd cyhoeddus ac ni chânt eu trosglwyddo i ffermwyr. Hefyd, er mwyn bodloni’r rheoliadau, maent yn anfonebu am y taliadau archwilio yn y lladd-dai heb gasglu’r arian, ac mae hynny’n destun ymgyfreithio. Felly, efallai y byddai modd i’r gwasanaeth iechyd cyhoeddus hwn i Gymru ystyried cefnogi ffermwyr Cymru a thalu rhai o’r costau drud hyn.
My second point refers to imported meat. It is being revealed that much of this meat from Germany and France has spinal cord attached to it. Surely, if we have a public health service for Wales, we could examine illegal meat and ensure that the importing of meat from any country detected as the origin of such illegal meat would be banned under procurement policies. Will the Minister say whether the public health service would ban such meat in procurement policies so that the responsible countries would suffer the financial burden of that?
Mae’r ail bwynt sydd gennyf yn ymwneud â chig a fewnforir. Canfyddir bod y madruddyn cefn yn sownd wrth lawer o gig a ddaw o’r Almaen a Ffrainc. Gan fod gennym wasanaeth iechyd cyhoeddus i Gymru, siawns na allem archwilio cig anghyfreithlon a sicrhau y caiff mewnforio cig o unrhyw wlad y canfyddir ei bod yn ffynhonnell i gig anghyfreithlon o’r fath ei wahardd o dan bolisïau caffael. A wnaiff y Gweinidog ddweud a fyddai’r gwasanaeth iechyd cyhoeddus yn gwahardd cig o’r fath mewn polisïau caffael fel na fyddai’r gwledydd cyfrifol yn gorfod dwyn y baich ariannol am hynny?
We have an opportunity to address these issues on an all-Wales level and work can be done nationally to consider the particular issues you raised. This will then be reflected locally because there will be a local director of environmental health in your local authority, with a public health professional working alongside him or her to address these issues. These issues are of particular importance in rural communities—and, indeed, across Wales. At a national level, these people will work with the Food Standards Agency and the Assembly to address these issues. Therefore, you will find that you will be well served.
Mae gennym gyfle i ymdrin â’r materion hyn ar lefel Cymru gyfan a gellir gwneud gwaith yn genedlaethol i ystyried y materion penodol y gwnaethoch eu codi. Adlewyrchir hynny’n lleol wedyn gan y bydd cyfarwyddwr iechyd amgylcheddol lleol yn eich awdurdod lleol a chanddo weithiwr iechyd cyhoeddus proffesiynol yn gweithio ochr yn ochr ag ef i ymdrin â’r materion hyn. Mae’r materion hyn yn arbennig o bwysig mewn cymunedau gwledig—ac, yn wir, ledled Cymru. Ar lefel genedlaethol, bydd y bobl hyn yn gweithio gyda’r Asiantaeth Safonau Bwyd a’r Cynulliad i ymdrin â’r materion hyn. Gan hynny, cewch y bydd gwasanaeth da ar eich cyfer.
Datganiad Busnes
Business Statement
Carwyn Jones The Business Minister spoken in English p. 41
Carwyn Jones Y Trefnydd siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 41
There is one change to this week’s business: the motion to approve the Organic Products (Wales) Regulations 2002 has been postponed until 17 December, and will appear in the draft three weeks’ business statement. That statement is as shown on the Chamberweb, under supporting documents.
Mae un newid i fusnes yr wythnos hon: mae’r cynnig i gymeradwyo Rheoliadau Cynhyrchion Organig (Cymru) 2002 wedi’i ohirio hyd 17 Rhagfyr, a bydd yn ymddangos yn y datganiad busnes drafft ar gyfer y tair wythnos nesaf. Mae’r datganiad hwnnw fel y’i dangosir ar we’r Siambr, dan ddogfennau ategol.
Following the Business Committee meeting this morning, the Deputy Presiding Officer determined that, under Standing Order No. 22.5, the following items of legislation need not be referred to a Subject Committee for extended consideration: the Local Authorities (Alternative Arrangements) (Amendment) (Wales) Regulations 2003, and secondly, the Local Authorities Executive Arrangements (Functions and Responsibilities) (Amendment) (Wales) Regulations 2003.
Ar ôl y cyfarfod o’r Pwyllgor Busnes y bore yma, penderfynodd y Dirprwy Lywydd, o dan Reol Sefydlog Rhif 22.5, nad oes angen cyfeirio’r eitemau canlynol o ddeddfwriaeth i Bwyllgor Pwnc i’w hystyried yn helaethach: Rheoliadau Awdurdodau Lleol (Trefniadau Amgen) (Diwygio) (Cymru) 2003, ac yn ail, Rheoliadau Trefniadau Gweithrediaeth Awdurdodau Lleol (Swyddogaethau a Chyfrifoldebau) (Diwygio) (Cymru) 2003.
Dafydd Elis-Thomas Y Llywydd siaradwyd yn Gymraeg t. 42
Dafydd Elis-Thomas The Presiding Officer spoken in Welsh p. 42
Nid oes gwrthwynebiad i’r datganiad busnes, felly yr wyf yn gwahodd un Aelod o bob plaid i wneud sylwadau.
There are no objections to the business statement, therefore I invite one Member from each party to comment.
A wnaiff y Trefnydd drefnu amser ar gyfer datganiad ar Dysgu ac Addysgu Cymru cyn gynted ag y bo modd? Yr wyf ar ddeall y trafodwyd hyn yn y Pwyllgor Busnes y bore yma, ac yr wyf yn gwerthfawrogi’r ffaith bod y Gweinidog dros Addysg a Dysgu Gydol Oes wedi dweud eisoes ei bod yn barod i wneud datganiad i’r Cyfarfod Llawn ar yr un pryd ag y bydd hi’n adrodd yn ôl i’r Pwyllgor Addysg a Dysgu Gydol Oes. Fodd bynnag, yr wyf am bwysleisio’r angen am ddatganiad cyn gynted â phosibl. Mae sïon ar led ynglŷn â’r posibilrwydd o ailstrwythuro cynhwysfawr yn ELWa, ac nid wyf yn credu bod hynny yn gwneud lles. Mae’r cyfan wedi codi yn sgîl adroddiad Hugh Rawlings ar ddyfodol ELWa. Hoffem gael syniad o bryd mae’r Gweinidog yn debygol o wneud ei datganiad, ac a fyddai’n bosibl iddi wneud cyn y Nadolig.
Will the Business Minister allocate time for a statement on Education and Learning Wales as soon as possible? I understand that this was discussed in the Business Committee this morning, and I appreciate that the Minister for Education and Lifelong Learning has already said that she is willing to make a statement in Plenary at the same time that she reports to the Education and Lifelong Learning Committee. However, I emphasise the need for a statement as soon as possible. Rumours are rife concerning the possibility of a comprehensive restructuring of ELWa and I do not believe that that does any good. All of this has arisen as a result of Hugh Rawlings’s report on ELWa’s future. We would like an indication of when the Minister is likely to make her statement, and whether it would it be possible for her to do so before Christmas.
First, we request that a statement be made in the Chamber on the new ruling made by the Department for Environment, Food and Rural Affairs ruling that has more or less stopped the live export of lambs to Europe. We want to know what effect that ruling has in Wales, and a statement from the Minister would be appropriate. Secondly, we would like a statement on the Gwent orthopaedic waiting lists, which, I understand, are now the worst in Great Britain. It would be appropriate for the Minister for Health and Social Services to make a statement on what she intends to do to combat that problem. Thirdly, in addition to supporting Plaid Cymru’s request for a statement on ELWa, we also request a statement on the General Teaching Council for Wales’s report, which highlighted serious teacher shortages in Wales, and on its evidence to the Education and Lifelong Learning Committee last week. The Minister for Education and Lifelong Learning should make a statement outlining her strategy to combat those problems.
Yn gyntaf, gwnawn gais am ddatganiad yn y Siambr ar ddyfarniad newydd Adran yr Amgylchedd, Bwyd a Materion Gwledig sydd fwy neu lai wedi atal allforio ŵyn byw i Ewrop. Yr ydym am wybod pa effaith a gaiff y dyfarniad hwnnw yng Nghymru, a byddai datganiad gan y Gweinidog yn briodol. Yn ail, hoffem gael datganiad ar restrau aros orthopedig Gwent, sef y rhai gwaethaf ym Mhrydain Fawr erbyn hyn, yr wyf yn deall. Byddai’n briodol i’r Gweinidog dros Iechyd a Gwasanaethau Cymdeithasol wneud datganiad ar yr hyn y mae’n bwriadu’i wneud i fynd i’r afael â’r broblem honno. Yn drydydd, yn ogystal â chefnogi cais Plaid Cymru am ddatganiad ar ELWa, yr ydym hefyd yn gofyn am ddatganiad ar adroddiad Cyngor Addysgu Cyffredinol Cymru, sydd wedi tynnu sylw at brinder difrifol o athrawon yng Nghymru, ac ar ei dystiolaeth i’r Pwyllgor Addysg a Dysgu Gydol Oes yr wythnos diwethaf. Dylai’r Gweinidog dros Addysg a Dysgu Gydol Oes wneud datganiad i egluro ei strategaeth i fynd i’r afael â’r problemau hynny.
Carwyn Jones Y Trefnydd siaradwyd yn Gymraeg ac yn Saesneg t. 43
Carwyn Jones The Business Minister spoken in Welsh and English p. 43
I ateb cwestiwn Cynog, yr wyf ar ddeall bod angen i’r cyngor, sydd yn ran o ELWa, edrych ar yr adroddiad ei hun yn gyntaf. Wedi iddo wneud hynny, caiff datganiad ei wneud. Mae’r Gweinidog wedi dweud eisoes ei bod yn barod i wneud datganiad i’r Pwyllgor ac, os oes angen, yn y Siambr. Ni wyddom pa bryd yn union y digwydd hynny eto, ond mae’r Gweinidog wedi clywed yr hyn a ddywedasoch. Felly bydd datganiad cyn gynted ag y bo modd. Fodd bynnag, rhaid rhoi cyfle i’r cyngor ystyried yr adroddiad i ddechrau.
in Welsh To answer Cynog’s question, I understand that the council, which is part of ELWa, will have to consider the report itself first. Once it has done that, a statement will be made. The Minister has already said that she is prepared to make a statement to the Committee and, if necessary, in the Chamber. We do not know exactly when that will be, but the Minister has heard what you have said. Therefore, there will be a statement as soon as possible. However, we must give the council an opportunity to consider the report first.
In relation to Jonathan Morgan’s request, two of the Ministers are in the Chamber, and they will have heard what has been said. It is a matter for them to consider.
yn Saesneg Mewn cysylltiad â chais Jonathan Morgan, mae dau o’r Gweinidogion yn y Siambr, a byddant wedi clywed yr hyn a ddywedwyd. Mater i’w ystyried ganddynt hwy ydyw.
Derbyniwyd y datganiad busnes.
Business statement adopted.
Cymeradwyo Rheoliadau Cyfraniadau Ardrethu Annomestig (Cymru) (Diwygio) 2002
Approval of the Non Domestic Rating Contributions (Wales) (Amendment) Regulations 2002
Edwina Hart The Finance Minister spoken in English p. 43
Edwina Hart Y Gweinidog Cyllid siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 43
I propose that
Cynigiaf fod
Edwina Hart The Finance Minister (continued) spoken in English p. 44
Edwina Hart Y Gweinidog Cyllid (parhad) siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 44
I propose that
Cynigiaf fod
Edwina Hart The Finance Minister (continued) spoken in English p. 44
Edwina Hart Y Gweinidog Cyllid (parhad) siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 44
Councils are required to pay non-domestic rating contributions to the Assembly in respect of the rates that they collect from businesses in their areas. Rates are paid into a national non-domestic rating pool, from which they are redistributed to councils on the basis of their adult population.
Mae’n ofynnol i gynghorau dalu cyfraniadau ardrethu annomestig i’r Cynulliad mewn cysylltiad â’r trethi a gasglant oddi wrth fusnesau yn eu hardaloedd. Telir y trethi i gronfa ardrethu annomestig genedlaethol, a chânt eu hailddosbarthu ohoni i gynghorau ar sail eu poblogaeth sy’n oedolion.
The rules for calculating these contributions are contained in the Non Domestic Rating Contributions (Wales) Regulations 1992. Amendments are made annually to certain elements to ensure that the basis for councils’ contributions remains accurate.
Ceir y rheolau ar gyfer cyfrifo’r cyfraniadau hyn yn Rheoliadau Cyfraniadau Ardrethu Annomestig (Cymru) 1992. Gwneir newidiadau bob blwyddyn i rai elfennau i sicrhau bod y sail i gyfraniadau’r cynghorau’n dal i fod yn gywir.
These amending regulations are needed to enable councils to calculate correctly the non-domestic rating contributions for 2003-04. The regulations make two changes that are purely technical. The first is a revised estimate of the impact of successful appeals on rateable values, known as the buoyancy factor. The second is a revised set of adult population figures, which are updated each year, and which councils use to recalculate, where necessary, their provisional contributions to the pool. These changes are routine and technical in nature. There are no financial implications for businesses from this. I therefore ask you to support the motion.
Mae angen y rheoliadau diwygio hyn i alluogi cynghorau i gyfrifo’n gywir y cyfraniadau ardrethu annomestig ar gyfer 2003-04. Mae’r rheoliadau’n gwneud dau newid sy’n gwbl dechnegol. Mae’r cyntaf yn amcangyfrif diwygiedig o effaith apelau llwyddiannus ar werthoedd ardrethol, a elwir yn ffactor hydwythedd. Mae’r ail yn set ddiwygiedig o ffigurau am y boblogaeth sy’n oedolion, a ddiweddarir bob blwyddyn, y bydd cynghorau’n eu defnyddio i ailgyfrifo, os oes angen, eu cyfraniadau dros dro i’r gronfa. Mae’r newidiadau hyn o natur reolaidd a thechnegol. Nid oes goblygiadau ariannol i fusnesau oherwydd hyn. Gan hynny, gofynnaf ichi gefnogi’r cynnig.
As with the revenue support grant, the last census and the changes in population recorded will affect this. It will have a big effect on how the revenue support grant is distributed. These regulations concern an annual adjustment, but can you tell me when that new calculation of population will affect this grant and what its effect will be? Is that reflected in today’s settlement?
Yn yr un modd ag yn achos y grant cynnal refeniw, bydd y cyfrifiad diwethaf a’r newidiadau mewn poblogaeth a gofnodwyd yn effeithio ar hyn. Caiff effaith fawr ar y modd y dosbarthir y grant cynnal refeniw. Mae’r rheoliadau hyn yn ymwneud â newid blynyddol, ond a allwch ddweud wrthyf pa bryd y bydd y cyfrifiad newydd hwnnw o’r boblogaeth yn effeithio ar y cymorth grant hwn a beth fydd ei effaith? A adlewyrchir hynny yn y setliad heddiw?
We welcome these largely technical amendments. We are pleased to see that it remains constant. In relation to pools, the buoyancy factor is recorded and, as all Members will know, is an estimate of the effect on rate yield of the expected reduction in rateable value due to successful appeals. We welcome those measures.
Croesawn y newidiadau hyn, sy’n rhai technegol gan mwyaf. Yr ydym yn falch o weld ei fod yn parhau’n gyson. Mewn cysylltiad â chronfeydd, caiff y ffactor hydwythedd ei gofnodi ac, fel y gŵyr yr holl Aelodau, mae’n amcangyfrif o’r effaith ar y trethi a gynhyrchir o ganlyniad i’r gostyngiad a ddisgwylir mewn gwerthoedd ardrethol oherwydd apelau llwyddiannus. Croesawn y mesurau hynny.
I appreciate the Minister’s comment that this grant does not have financial consequences for businesses. However, this is an opportunity to highlight the Minister’s proposal to introduce business improvement districts in Wales. The Economic Development Committee has asked the Minister for the Committee to be fully involved in the discussions on how to roll out and pilot business improvement districts. I ask the Minister to confirm that she is happy to fully involve the Economic Development Committee and the Minister for Economic Development in those discussions, bearing in mind that that Committee is the Committee that primarily addresses and represents the needs of business.
Gwerthfawrogaf sylw’r Gweinidog nad oes canlyniadau ariannol i fusnesau oherwydd y grant hwn. Er hynny, mae hyn yn gyfle i dynnu sylw at fwriad y Gweinidog i greu ardaloedd gwella busnes yng Nghymru. Mae’r Pwyllgor Datblygu Economaidd wedi gofyn i’r Gweinidog i’r Pwyllgor gael cymryd rhan lawn yn y trafodaethau ar y modd i roi prawf ar ardaloedd gwella busnes a’u rhoi ar waith. Gofynnaf i’r Gweinidog gadarnhau ei bod yn fodlon rhoi rhan lawn i’r Pwyllgor Datblygu Economaidd a’r Gweinidog dros Ddatblygu Economaidd yn y trafodaethau hynny, gan gofio mai’r Pwyllgor hwnnw’n bennaf sy’n ystyried ac yn cynrychioli anghenion busnes.
I will deal with the business improvement districts first. At the Local Government Partnership Council meeting in July, I think, I announced my intention to work with local government and business to develop business improvement districts in Wales. I hope that business representatives, ourselves and the Assembly will develop a system in Wales, through this tripartite approach, that can deliver what we want. The first meeting is scheduled for January 2003 and I look forward with interest to any representations concerning the involvement of any other people. However, I need to consult with businesses and representatives of the business community about the business improvement districts, as they are at the sharp end.
Ymdriniaf â’r ardaloedd gwella busnes yn gyntaf. Yn y cyfarfod o’r Cyngor Partneriaeth Llywodraeth Leol yng Ngorffennaf, yr wyf yn credu, cyhoeddais fy mwriad i weithio gyda llywodraeth leol a busnes i ddatblygu ardaloedd gwella busnes yng Nghymru. Gobeithiaf y bydd cynrychiolwyr busnes, nyni a’r Cynulliad yn datblygu system yng Nghymru, drwy’r dull tairochrog hwn, a fydd yn bodloni ein gofynion. Amserlennwyd y cyfarfod cyntaf ar gyfer Ionawr 2003 ac edrychaf ymlaen gyda diddordeb at gael unrhyw sylwadau ynghylch cynnwys unrhyw bobl eraill. Fodd bynnag, rhaid imi ymgynghori â busnesau a chynrychiolwyr y gymuned fusnes ynghylch yr ardaloedd gwella busnes, gan mai hwy sydd yn y rheng flaen.
William alluded to the buoyancy factor. It is shown as a percentage. The buoyancy factor is an estimate of the effect that successful appeals might have in reducing rateable values, and thereby reducing council rate yield.
Cyfeiriodd William at y ffactor hydwythedd. Fe’i dangosir fel canran. Mae’r ffactor hydwythedd yn amcangyfrif o’r effaith y gallai apelau llwyddiannus ei chael o ran gostwng gwerthoedd ardrethol, a thrwy hynny leihau’r swm y mae’r cynghorau’n ei godi mewn trethi.
In terms of the amendments, Janet is quite right. The population figures must be revised in light of the census figures. It is important to remember that it is likely that the contributions will be less than the estimated downward recalculation that could happen if there is a significant reduction in councils’ rates yield due to unforeseen circumstances. Therefore, councils need to amend their estimated contributions to the pool in mid year, and the regulations will then amend the population figures that are used if councils need to calculate a revised estimate. These regulations are purely technical, but this will be affected by changes in population figures.
Ynglŷn â’r newidiadau, mae Janet yn hollol gywir. Rhaid adolygu’r ffigurau poblogaeth yng ngolwg ffigurau’r cyfrifiad. Mae’n bwysig cofio ei bod yn debygol y bydd y cyfraniadau’n llai na’r ailgyfrifiad disgynnol amcangyfrifedig a allai ddigwydd os oes gostyngiad sylweddol yng nghynnyrch trethi’r cynghorau oherwydd amgylchiadau annisgwyl. Felly, rhaid i gynghorau newid eu hamcangyfraniadau i’r gronfa ar ganol y flwyddyn, a bydd y rheoliadau wedyn yn newid y ffigurau poblogaeth a ddefnyddir os oes angen i gynghorau wneud amcangyfrif diwygiedig. Mae’r rheoliadau hyn yn gwbl dechnegol, ond bydd newidiadau mewn ffigurau poblogaeth yn effeithio ar hyn.
Cynnig NDM1246 Edwina Hart t. 46
Motion NDM1246 Edwina Hart p. 46
DerbyniwydAdopted O blaidFor 42 YmatalAbstain 0 Yn erbynAgainst 0
Derbyniwyd y cynnig.
Motion carried.
Sut y pleidleisiodd yr AelodauHow Members voted
O blaidFor (42)
- Lorraine Barrett
- Mick Bates
- Peter Black
- Eleanor Burnham
- Alun Cairns
- Christine Chapman
- Jane Davidson
- Andrew Davies
- David Davies
- Geraint Davies
- Jocelyn Davies
- Sue Essex
- Delyth Evans
- William Graham
- Janice Gregory
- John Griffiths
- Brian Gibbons
- Christine Gwyther
- Alison Halford
- Edwina Hart
- Pauline Jarman
- Ann Jones
- Carwyn Jones
- David Ian Jones
- Elin Jones
- Gareth Jones
- Peter Law
- Huw Lewis
- David Lloyd
- Val Lloyd
- David Melding
- Tom Middlehurst
- Jonathan Morgan
- Rhodri Morgan
- Alun Pugh
- Jenny Randerson
- Peter Rogers
- Janet Ryder
- Karen Sinclair
- Gwenda Thomas
- Rhodri Glyn Thomas
- Dafydd Wigley
Cynnig NDM1247 Edwina Hart t. 47
Motion NDM1247 Edwina Hart p. 47
DerbyniwydAdopted O blaidFor 42 YmatalAbstain 0 Yn erbynAgainst 0
Derbyniwyd y cynnig.
Motion carried.
Sut y pleidleisiodd yr AelodauHow Members voted
O blaidFor (42)
- Lorraine Barrett
- Mick Bates
- Peter Black
- Eleanor Burnham
- Alun Cairns
- Christine Chapman
- Andrew Davies
- David Davies
- Geraint Davies
- Jocelyn Davies
- Sue Essex
- Delyth Evans
- Michael German
- William Graham
- Janice Gregory
- John Griffiths
- Brian Gibbons
- Christine Gwyther
- Alison Halford
- Edwina Hart
- Pauline Jarman
- Ann Jones
- Carwyn Jones
- David Ian Jones
- Elin Jones
- Gareth Jones
- Peter Law
- Huw Lewis
- David Lloyd
- Val Lloyd
- David Melding
- Tom Middlehurst
- Jonathan Morgan
- Rhodri Morgan
- Alun Pugh
- Jenny Randerson
- Peter Rogers
- Janet Ryder
- Karen Sinclair
- Gwenda Thomas
- Rhodri Glyn Thomas
- Dafydd Wigley
Daeth y Dirprwy Lywydd i’r Gadair am 3.34 p.m.
The Deputy Presiding Officer took the Chair at 3.34 p.m.
Cymeradwyo Gorchymyn Cynulliad Cenedlaethol Cymru (Taliadau Swyddogion Canlyniadau) (Cymru) 2002
Approval of the National Assembly for Wales (Returning Officers’ Charges) (Wales) Order 2002
Edwina Hart The Finance Minister spoken in English p. 48
Edwina Hart Y Gweinidog Cyllid siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 48
I propose that
Cynigiaf fod
Edwina Hart The Finance Minister (continued) spoken in English p. 48
Edwina Hart Y Gweinidog Cyllid (parhad) siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 48
I propose that
Cynigiaf fod
Edwina Hart The Finance Minister (continued) spoken in English p. 48
Edwina Hart Y Gweinidog Cyllid (parhad) siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 48
This Order is the result of extensive consultation with returning officers, the Electoral Commission, and the Association of Electoral Administrators.
Mae’r Gorchymyn hwn yn ganlyniad i ymgynghori eang gyda swyddogion canlyniadau, y Comisiwn Etholiadol, a Chymdeithas y Gweinyddwyr Etholiadol.
Charges for services, expenses and fees incurred by returning officers in association with Assembly elections are recoverable from the National Assembly for Wales. The maximum and minimum recoverable levels were set four years ago by the National Assembly for Wales (Returning Officers’ Charges) Order 1999. This new Order seeks to update the old one, using the figures used for the general election as a baseline to upgrade fees in line with inflation. I feel that as a result the level of fees will be sufficient to attract the necessary polling clerks and related staff.
Gellir adfer taliadau am wasanaethau, treuliau a ffioedd a godir ar swyddogion canlyniadau mewn cysylltiad ag etholiadau’r Cynulliad oddi wrth Gynulliad Cenedlaethol Cymru. Pennwyd y lefelau adferadwy uchaf ac isaf bedair blynedd yn ôl drwy Orchymyn Cynulliad Cenedlaethol Cymru (Taliadau Swyddogion Canlyniadau) 1999. Mae’r Gorchymyn newydd hwn yn ymgais i ddiweddaru’r hen un, gan ddefnyddio’r ffigurau a ddefnyddiwyd ar gyfer yr etholiad cyffredinol yn llinell sylfaen i godi ffioedd yn unol â chwyddiant. Teimlaf y bydd lefel y ffioedd yn ddigonol o ganlyniad i hynny i ddenu’r nifer angenrheidiol o glercod etholiadol a staff cysylltiedig.
As you will be aware, much publicity has been given this year to ways of increasing voter turnout and making the voting process more accessible to all people. Recent research by the Disability Rights Commission and Scope has highlighted the apparently large proportion of polling stations used for the 2001 general election that were not fully accessible.
Fel y gwyddoch, bu llawer o gyhoeddusrwydd eleni ynghylch dulliau o gynyddu’r nifer sy’n pleidleisio a pheri i’r broses pleidleisio fod yn fwy hygyrch i bawb. Mae ymchwil ddiweddar gan y Comisiwn Hawliau Anabledd a Scope wedi tynnu sylw at y gyfran ymddangosiadol fawr o orsafoedd pleidleisio a ddefnyddiwyd ar gyfer etholiad cyffredinol 2001 nad oeddent yn gwbl hygyrch.
Returning officers have a duty to provide sufficient numbers of polling stations and to nominate the most accessible buildings for use as polling stations. To highlight this issue, I again consulted with returning officers on their current access arrangements in relation to polling stations. I attach the highest importance to this. The response was extremely encouraging and I understand that considerable effort has been made to ensure that the best possible access facilities are in place for the next Assembly elections.
Mae gan swyddogion canlyniadau ddyletswydd i ddarparu nifer ddigonol o orsafoedd pleidleisio ac i ddynodi’r adeiladau mwyaf hygyrch i’w defnyddio fel gorsafoedd pleidleisio. Er mwyn tynnu sylw at y mater hwn, ymgynghorais eto â swyddogion canlyniadau ar eu trefniadau presennol ar gyfer mynediad i orsafoedd pleidleisio. Rhoddaf y pwys mwyaf ar hyn. Yr oedd yr ymateb yn galonogol dros ben a deallaf y gwnaed cryn ymdrech i sicrhau bod y cyfleusterau mynediad gorau posibl ar waith ar gyfer etholiadau nesaf y Cynulliad.
To further promote this important issue, I have decided that this Order should include provisions for returning officers to reclaim 50 per cent of the cost of installing temporary access ramps that is not met by the Lord Chancellor’s Department.
Er mwyn hyrwyddo’r mater pwysig hwn ymhellach, penderfynais y dylai’r Gorchymyn hwn gynnwys darpariaethau i alluogi swyddogion canlyniadau i adfer 50 y cant o gost gosod rampiau mynediad dros dro nas telir gan Adran yr Arglwydd Ganghellor.
Approving this Order would enable returning officers to manage elections to the Assembly in a way that should ensure maximum access to the democratic system.
Byddai cymeradwyo’r Gorchymyn hwn yn galluogi swyddogion canlyniadau i reoli etholiadau i’r Cynulliad mewn modd a ddylai sicrhau’r mynediad mwyaf posibl i’r system ddemocrataidd.
As the Minister said, these regulations provide for the recovery of charges by constituency and regional returning officers. What will the expected and budgeted cost of the Assembly elections be with regard to these fees? I do not know whether that is difficult to predict, because maximum recoverable amounts are provided for in connection with the issuing of receipts for postal ballots and so on. Yet there are other regulations for the expenses of a constituency or regional returning officer, such as travel, overnight subsistence and printing ballot papers, where no maximum recoverable amounts are specified. How are these costs normally audited and by whom, and is funding to deal with these matters released in advance of elections or is it claimed retrospectively by the relevant returning officer?
Fel y dywedodd y Gweinidog, mae’r rheoliadau hyn yn darparu ar gyfer adfer taliadau gan swyddogion canlyniadau etholaethol a rhanbarthol. Beth fydd cost ddisgwyliedig etholiadau’r Cynulliad, a’r gost y cyllidebwyd ar ei chyfer, gyda golwg ar y ffioedd hyn? Ni wn a yw’n anodd rhagweld hynny, gan fod darpariaeth ar gyfer y symiau mwyaf y gellir eu hadfer ynghylch rhoi derbynebion am bleidleisiau drwy’r post ac yn y blaen. Eto, mae rheoliadau eraill ar gyfer treuliau swyddogion canlyniadau etholaethol neu ranbarthol, fel treuliau teithio, cynhaliaeth dros nos ac argraffu papurau pleidleisio, lle na nodir y symiau mwyaf y gellir eu hadfer. Sut yr archwilir y costau hyn fel arfer a chan bwy, ac a ryddheir yr arian i ddelio â’r materion hyn cyn etholiadau ynteu a gaiff ei hawlio’n ôl gan y swyddog canlyniadau perthnasol?
I turn to the Minister’s remarks on ramp access. Expenses are allowed for providing ramp access. You would normally expect the Lord Chancellor’s Department to underwrite those costs, albeit perhaps on a shared basis, as ramps will be reused in other UK, European and local government elections. What arrangements are in place with the Home Office to ensure that its responsibilities are honoured on a shared basis?
Trof at sylwadau’r Gweinidog am fynediad ar hyd rampiau. Caniateir treuliau am ddarparu mynediad ar hyd rampiau. Fel arfer, byddech yn disgwyl i Adran yr Arglwydd Ganghellor warantu’r costau hyn, er mai ar y cyd y byddai hynny efallai, gan y caiff rampiau eu hailddefnyddio mewn etholiadau eraill ar gyfer y DU, Ewrop a llywodraeth leol. Pa drefniadau sydd ar waith gyda’r Swyddfa Gartref i sicrhau ei bod yn derbyn ei chyfrifoldebau ar y cyd?
Will the Minister give an assurance that these charges will be properly met, in the proportion that she decides, and that there has been adequate consultation with all local authorities in Wales? The Welsh Conservatives wholly approve of these measures. We agree with what has been said; it is entirely appropriate that we should enable as many people as possible to vote in all our elections.
A wnaiff y Gweinidog roi sicrwydd y telir am y costau hyn yn briodol, yn ôl y gyfran a benderfyna, ac y bu ymgynghori digonol â’r holl awdurdodau lleol yng Nghymru? Mae Ceidwadwyr Cymru’n llwyr gymeradwyo’r mesurau hyn. Cytunwn â’r hyn a ddywedwyd; mae’n gwbl briodol y dylem alluogi cynifer ag y bo modd i bleidleisio yn ein holl etholiadau.
I am grateful that the Minister has listened to representations on access. I would imagine that Members are familiar with the various types of voting facilities in constituencies. In my constituency, they vary from portakabins, which offer reasonable access, to buses, which are nigh on impossible for anyone who is disabled to access. I hope that such facilities will be a thing of the past and that adequate measures and finance will be made available so that no-one will feel deterred from going to vote. I thank the Minister for the recommendations.
Yr wyf yn ddiolchgar bod y Gweinidog wedi gwrando ar y sylwadau a gyflwynwyd am fynediad. Tybiaf fod yr Aelodau’n gyfarwydd â’r gwahanol fathau o gyfleusterau pleidleisio mewn etholaethau. Yn fy etholaeth i, maent yn amrywio o portakabins, sy’n cynnig mynediad rhesymol, i fysiau, y mae bron yn amhosibl i rywun anabl fynd iddynt. Gobeithiaf y bydd diwedd ar gyfleusterau o’r fath ac y darperir mesurau a chyllid digonol fel na fydd neb yn teimlo ei fod yn cael ei atal rhag mynd i bleidleisio. Diolchaf i’r Gweinidog am yr argymhellion.
I had not intended to contribute to this debate, but I was glad to hear the Minister’s statement on access for disabled people. This issue is usually lobbied about in the three months after an election when people feel frenetically about it, but it then goes off the boil as time goes on. Therefore, it is appropriate to press on this issue now, three months before an election.
Nid oeddwn wedi bwriadu cyfrannu i’r ddadl hon, ond yr oeddwn yn falch o glywed datganiad y Gweinidog am fynediad i bobl anabl. Fel arfer ceir lobïo ynghylch y mater hwn yn y tri mis ar ôl etholiad pan yw pobl yn teimlo’n angerddol yn ei gylch, ac wedyn mae’n cael llai o sylw gydag amser. Felly, mae’n briodol pwyso ynghylch y mater hwn yn awr, dri mis cyn etholiad.
I have some questions: first, can you confirm that no local authority should be out of pocket in providing ramps if the Assembly meets the other 50 per cent of the cost? Secondly, have you reached an agreement with local authorities on the use of schools? Substandard schools are often used when village schools feel that they should not be closed or impinged upon in any way by the election. Sometimes no building other than the village school is available. One does not want to cut across education, but at the same time, one wants to make voting easy. Thirdly, will you consider using performance indicators with regard to local authorities reaching your targets? Finally, do you agree that every disabled person has a civic right to vote outside the home? While we welcome the availability of postal voting, that does not detract from the right to vote outside the home that should be available to disabled people.
Mae gennyf rai cwestiynau: yn gyntaf, a allwch gadarnhau na ddylai’r un awdurdod lleol fod ar ei golled drwy ddarparu rampiau pe bai’r Cynulliad yn talu’r 50 y cant arall o’r gost? Yn ail, a ydych wedi dod i gytundeb gyda’r awdurdodau lleol ar ddefnyddio ysgolion? Defnyddir ysgolion is na’r safon yn aml pan fo ysgolion pentref yn teimlo na ddylent gael eu cau neu eu hanhwyluso o gwbl gan yr etholiad. Weithiau nid oes yr un adeilad arall ar gael heblaw ysgol y pentref. Nid yw rhywun am ymyrryd ag addysg, ond ar yr un pryd, dylid gwneud pleidleisio yn hawdd. Yn drydydd, a wnewch ystyried defnyddio dangosyddion perfformiad i ganfod a yw awdurdodau lleol yn cyrraedd eich targedau? Yn olaf, a gytunwch fod gan bob person anabl hawl ddinesig i bleidleisio y tu allan i’w gartref? Er ein bod yn croesawu’r ffaith bod pleidleisio drwy’r post ar gael, nid yw hynny’n amharu ar yr hawl i bleidleisio y tu allan i’r cartref a ddylai fod ar gael i bobl anabl.
The Finance Minister has proposed an important motion that needs and deserves support and effective implementation in all local authorities in Wales. I know that local authorities’ reactions have differed. Will the Minister expand on which local authorities have reacted positively, and which local authorities have not reacted as positively as perhaps they should, of which Bridgend County Borough Council is one?
Mae’r Gweinidog Cyllid wedi cynnig cynnig pwysig a ddylai gael ei gefnogi a’i weithredu’n effeithiol yn yr holl awdurdodau lleol yng Nghymru. Gwn fod yr awdurdodau lleol wedi ymateb yn wahanol. A wnaiff y Gweinidog ymhelaethu ar yr awdurdodau lleol sydd wedi ymateb yn gadarnhaol, a’r awdurdodau lleol sydd heb ymateb mor gadarnhaol ag y dylent, o bosibl, y mae Cyngor Bwrdeistref Sirol Pen-y-bont ar Ogwr yn un ohonynt?
Edwina Hart The Finance Minister spoken in English p. 51
Edwina Hart Y Gweinidog Cyllid siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 51
I thank Members for their positive contributions to this debate. As Dafydd said, it is a civic right to vote in the way in which you choose, and everyone should have access to polling stations. This is our main concern and the reason why we have decided to implement these changes. You are right that accessibility to polling stations is always an issue just after an election, but it then seems to be forgotten. As we have spent a considerable time addressing this matter, it is important that local authorities can afford to implement these changes. Therefore, they will not only receive 50 per cent of the cost of the ramps from the UK Government, but the other 50 per cent from the Assembly. I understand Pauline’s comments, but the National Assembly must be exemplar in terms of our own elections, and therefore it is important that we meet these costs.
Diolchaf i’r Aelodau am eu cyfraniadau cadarnhaol i’r ddadl hon. Fel y dywedodd Dafydd, hawl ddinesig yw cael pleidleisio yn y modd a ddewiswch, a dylai pawb gael mynediad i orsafoedd pleidleisio. Dyna yw ein prif gonsyrn a’r rheswm yr ydym wedi penderfynu rhoi’r newidiadau hyn ar waith. Yr ydych yn iawn wrth ddweud bod hygyrchedd gorsafoedd pleidleisio bob amser yn fater a godir yn union ar ôl etholiad, a’i bod yn ymddangos ei fod yn mynd yn angof wedyn. Gan inni dreulio cryn dipyn o amser yn trafod y mater hwn, mae’n bwysig bod awdurdodau lleol yn gallu fforddio rhoi’r newidiadau hyn ar waith. Gan hynny, nid yn unig y byddant yn cael 50 y cant o gost y rampiau gan Lywodraeth y DU, byddant yn cael y 50 y cant arall gan y Cynulliad. Deallaf sylwadau Pauline, ond rhaid i’r Cynulliad Cenedlaethol osod esiampl yn ein hetholiadau ein hun, ac mae’n bwysig felly ein bod yn talu am y costau hyn.
In the main, Alun, local government has responded positively, although in some cases there has been further correspondence on this. It would be helpful if whoever is responsible for such matters after our elections in May undertook a survey of the success of access, and considered how local authorities dealt with those issues. I do not believe that we need to implement performance indicators at this stage, but we must indicate that we expect local authorities to utilise properly the money that is available.
At ei gilydd, Alun, mae llywodraeth leol wedi ymateb yn gadarnhaol, er y bu gohebu pellach ar hyn mewn rhai achosion. Byddai’n fuddiol pe byddai’r sawl sy’n gyfrifol am faterion o’r fath ar ôl ein hetholiadau ym Mai yn cynnal arolwg o lwyddiant y mynediad, ac yn ystyried sut y gwnaeth awdurdodau lleol ddelio â’r materion hynny. Ni chredaf fod angen inni ddefnyddio dangosyddion perfformiad ar hyn o bryd, ond rhaid inni nodi ein bod yn disgwyl i awdurdodau lleol ddefnyddio’r arian sydd ar gael yn briodol.
Dafydd also raised a wider issue about schools, and it has been raised in discussions that I have had that sometimes schools are the only suitable location for voting. We must take this issue forward in further discussions. However, it may be possible to alleviate the problem by voting on Saturdays and Sundays rather than on Thursdays—which seems to be the norm in this country—or over several days, which may increase participation.
Gwnaeth Dafydd godi mater mwy cyffredinol hefyd am ysgolion, a nodwyd mewn trafodaethau a gefais mai ysgolion yw’r unig leoliad addas weithiau ar gyfer pleidleisio. Rhaid inni roi sylw pellach i’r mater hwn mewn trafodaethau. Fodd bynnag, gallai fod yn bosibl lliniaru’r broblem drwy bleidleisio ar ddydd Sadwrn a dydd Sul yn hytrach nag ar ddydd Iau—sy’n ymddangos yn norm yn y wlad hon—neu dros sawl diwrnod, a allai beri i fwy gymryd rhan.
William is right that we must closely monitor what happens in local authorities, but generally I am pleased by the response that we have received.
Mae William yn iawn wrth ddweud bod rhaid inni gadw golwg manwl ar yr hyn sy’n digwydd mewn awdurdodau lleol, ond yr wyf yn fodlon ar yr ymateb a gawsom at ei gilydd.
On Pauline’s point on expenses for other matters connected to the Assembly elections, I am happy to send a note to Members, if it would be helpful, on what is available, what the rules and regulations are, and what the estimated costs might be. I will ensure that that is circulated to Members.
Ynghylch y pwynt a wnaeth Pauline am dreuliau am faterion eraill sy’n gysylltiedig ag etholiadau’r Cynulliad, yr wyf yn fodlon anfon nodyn at yr Aelodau, pe byddai o gymorth, ar yr hyn sydd ar gael, beth yw’r rheolau a’r rheoliadau, a beth yw’r costau amcangyfrifedig. Gwnaf sicrhau y caiff ei ddosbarthu i’r Aelodau.
Cynnig NDM1248 Edwina Hart t. 52
Motion NDM1248 Edwina Hart p. 52
DerbyniwydAdopted O blaidFor 42 YmatalAbstain 0 Yn erbynAgainst 0
Derbyniwyd y cynnig.
Motion carried.
Sut y pleidleisiodd yr AelodauHow Members voted
O blaidFor (42)
- Lorraine Barrett
- Mick Bates
- Peter Black
- Eleanor Burnham
- Alun Cairns
- Christine Chapman
- Jane Davidson
- Andrew Davies
- David Davies
- Geraint Davies
- Jocelyn Davies
- Sue Essex
- Delyth Evans
- Michael German
- William Graham
- Janice Gregory
- John Griffiths
- Brian Gibbons
- Christine Gwyther
- Alison Halford
- Edwina Hart
- Pauline Jarman
- Ann Jones
- Carwyn Jones
- David Ian Jones
- Elin Jones
- Gareth Jones
- Peter Law
- Huw Lewis
- Val Lloyd
- David Melding
- Tom Middlehurst
- Jonathan Morgan
- Rhodri Morgan
- Lynne Neagle
- Alun Pugh
- Jenny Randerson
- Peter Rogers
- Janet Ryder
- Karen Sinclair
- Gwenda Thomas
- Dafydd Wigley
Cynnig NDM1249 Edwina Hart t. 53
Motion NDM1249 Edwina Hart p. 53
DerbyniwydAdopted O blaidFor 42 YmatalAbstain 0 Yn erbynAgainst 0
Derbyniwyd y cynnig.
Motion carried.
Sut y pleidleisiodd yr AelodauHow Members voted
O blaidFor (42)
- Lorraine Barrett
- Mick Bates
- Peter Black
- Eleanor Burnham
- Alun Cairns
- Christine Chapman
- Jane Davidson
- Andrew Davies
- David Davies
- Geraint Davies
- Jocelyn Davies
- Sue Essex
- Delyth Evans
- Michael German
- William Graham
- Janice Gregory
- John Griffiths
- Brian Gibbons
- Christine Gwyther
- Alison Halford
- Edwina Hart
- Pauline Jarman
- Ann Jones
- Carwyn Jones
- David Ian Jones
- Elin Jones
- Gareth Jones
- Peter Law
- Huw Lewis
- Val Lloyd
- David Melding
- Tom Middlehurst
- Jonathan Morgan
- Rhodri Morgan
- Lynne Neagle
- Alun Pugh
- Jenny Randerson
- Peter Rogers
- Janet Ryder
- Karen Sinclair
- Gwenda Thomas
- Dafydd Wigley
Cymeradwyo Cyllid Llywodraeth Leol (Cymru) Adroddiad Grant Arbennig (Rhif 19) (Cymru) 2002
Approval of the Local Government Finance (Wales) Special Grant Report (No.19) (Wales) 2002
Jane Davidson The Minister for Education and Lifelong Learning spoken in English p. 54
Jane Davidson Y Gweinidog dros Addysg a Dysgu Gydol Oes siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 54
I propose that
Cynigiaf fod
Jane Davidson The Minister for Education and Lifelong Learning (continued) spoken in English p. 54
Jane Davidson Y Gweinidog dros Addysg a Dysgu Gydol Oes (parhad) siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 54
I am pleased to submit this special grant report today for the Assembly’s approval. The grant will distribute an additional £5.2 million to local education authorities across Wales to fund additional costs incurred in respect of teachers’ threshold pay awards made in the last financial year, 2001-02. It honours the commitment made to local education authorities in Plenary on 10 December 1999 to meet any additional threshold pay costs above the £21.9 million identified in the revenue settlement for 2001-02. The requirement for additional funding to meet the threshold pay costs in 2001-02 has arisen as a result of the high proportion of eligible teachers in Wales who have crossed the first pay threshold. To date, some 15,500 teachers have met threshold pay standards. That is an indication of the high standard of teaching that is being delivered in Wales.
Yr wyf yn falch o gyflwyno’r adroddiad grant arbennig hwn heddiw i’w gymeradwyo gan y Cynulliad. Bydd y grant yn dosbarthu £5.2 miliwn ychwanegol i awdurdodau addysg lleol ledled Cymru i dalu am gostau ychwanegol a geir mewn cysylltiad â dyfarniadau tâl trothwy athrawon a wnaed yn y flwyddyn ariannol ddiwethaf, 2001-02. Mae’n cadw’r ymrwymiad a wnaed i awdurdodau addysg lleol yn y Cyfarfod Llawn ar 10 Rhagfyr 1999 i dalu am unrhyw gostau tâl trothwy ychwanegol ar ben y £21.9 miliwn a nodwyd yn y setliad refeniw ar gyfer 2001-02. Mae’r angen am gyllid ychwanegol i gwrdd â chostau’r taliadau trothwy yn 2001-02 wedi codi o ganlyniad i’r gyfran fawr o athrawon cymwys yng Nghymru a groesodd y trothwy tâl cyntaf. Hyd yn hyn, mae tua 15,500 o athrawon wedi cyrraedd safonau’r trothwy tâl. Mae hynny’n arwydd o safon uchel y dysgu a ddarperir yng Nghymru.
An estimate of the likely costs required to meet threshold payments was included in the revenue settlement for 2001-02, but that had to be calculated in advance of receiving intelligence on actual costs. Now that we have the actual numbers of teachers meeting the standard required to pass the threshold, a further £5.2 million is needed to meet the total costs of threshold pay in 2001-02. This grant fulfils our commitment to fund the shortfall in 2001-02. I commend this report to Members. It supports the Assembly’s commitment to meet in full teachers’ threshold pay costs in 2001-02 and clearly demonstrates our appreciation of the work undertaken by teachers in Wales.
Yr oedd amcangyfrif o’r costau tebygol y byddai’n rhaid eu talu ar gyfer y taliadau trothwy wedi’i gynnwys yn y setliad refeniw ar gyfer 2001-02, ond bu’n rhaid cyfrifo hynny cyn cael gwybodaeth am y costau gwirioneddol. A ninnau bellach wedi cael gwybod union niferoedd yr athrawon sy’n cyrraedd y safon sy’n ofynnol i fynd heibio i’r trothwy, mae angen £5.2 miliwn pellach i gwrdd â’r holl gostau tâl trothwy yn 2001-02. Mae’r grant hwn yn cyflawni ein hymrwymiad i dalu am y diffyg yn 2001-02. Cymeradwyaf yr adroddiad hwn i’r Aelodau. Mae’n cynnal ymrwymiad y Cynulliad i dalu’n llawn am gostau tâl trothwy athrawon yn 2001-02 ac yn dangos yn glir ein gwerthfawrogiad o’r gwaith a wnaed gan athrawon yng Nghymru.
Ar ran Plaid Cymru—The Party of Wales, croesawaf yr adroddiad a’r taliadau ynghlwm ag ef. Fel y gwyddoch, datganasom ein pryder ynghylch ad-daliadau ym mis Ionawr eleni, gan fod hynny’n gorfodi awdurdodau addysg lleol i ddefnyddio arian o’u cyllidebau canolog i dalu cyflogau athrawon, ar draul adrannau eraill. Yn ogystal, ar 14 Chwefror eleni, gofynnais ichi a oeddech am newid y sefyllfa lle y gorfodir awdurdodau i gyfyngu ar gyllidebau adrannau eraill er mwyn ariannu taliadau trothwy, ac a oeddech yn meddwl bod hynny’n dderbyniol. Atebasoch ‘nac ydw’, a ‘nac ydw’.
On behalf of Plaid Cymru—the Party of Wales, I welcome the report and its associated payments. As you know, we stated our concern about retrospective payments in January of this year, as that forces local authorities to use money from their central budgets to pay teachers’ salaries, at the expense of other departments. In addition, on 14 February of this year, I asked whether you would change the situation whereby authorities are forced to restrict other departments’ budgets to fund threshold payments, and whether you thought that that was acceptable. You answered ‘no’ and ‘no’.
Wrth drafod grant arbennig ym mis Gorffennaf eleni, dywedoch y byddai costau talu cyflogau athrawon yn cael eu cynnwys yn llawn yn y setliad refeniw lleol o 2003-04. A yw hynny’n golygu eich bod yn cydnabod y gwendidau amlwg sydd ynghlwm ag ad-daliadau, megis yr angen i drosglwyddo arian o un adran i’r llall—i’r adran addysg yn yr achos hwn—i sicrhau bod cyflogau athrawon yn cael eu talu, a hefyd y fiwrocratiaeth sydd ynghlwm â nodi’r gwahaniaeth yn y gyllideb. Rhaid i rywun nodi’r bwlch yn y gyllideb ac adrodd yn ôl ichi cyn i’r taliadau gael eu gwneud.
In discussing a special grant in July of this year, you said that the costs of paying teachers’ salaries would be fully included in the revenue settlement from 2003-04. Does that mean that you acknowledge the obvious weaknesses associated with retrospective payments, such as the need to transfer money from one department to another—to the education department in this case—to ensure that teachers’ salaries are paid, and also the bureaucracy associated with identifying the difference in the budget. Someone has to identify the gap in the budget and report back to you before the payments are made.
A fydd ymarferiad cyffelyb—ac felly ad-daliad—ar gyfer 2002-03? Pa wybodaeth newydd fydd ei angen o 2003 i sicrhau y bydd y setliad refeniw lleol yn ddigonol i dalu cyflogau athrawon? A yw’r drefn newydd hon o 2003 yn golygu eich bod wedi gwneud tro pedol ar y dull hwn o ariannu? Yn olaf, a yw awdurdodau lleol yn gwbl ymwybodol o’r newidiadau yn y cynllunio?
Will there be a similar exercise—and therefore a retrospective payment—for 2002-03? What new information will be required from 2003 to ensure that the local revenue settlement will be sufficient to pay teachers’ salaries? Does this new system, from 2003, mean that you have made a u-turn on this method of funding? Finally, are local authorities totally aware of the changes in the planning?
Will the Minister comment on the General Teaching Council for Wales’s survey published yesterday, which stated that one in 10 teaching posts were unfilled? That was the suggestion in the media, and I would like a response on it.
A wnaiff y Gweinidog sylw am arolwg Cyngor Addysgu Cyffredinol Cymru a gyhoeddwyd ddoe, a nododd fod un ym mhob 10 o swyddi athrawon heb ei llenwi? Dyna oedd yr awgrym yn y cyfryngau, a hoffwn glywed ymateb iddo.
The Welsh Conservatives will support the special grant report as tabled for this afternoon’s debate, and we support the additional £5.2 million that has been allocated to local authorities. However, we share the concerns of the Chair of the Education and Lifelong Learning Committee and others about the effect of this system of back payments on local authorities. I hope that, in light of the Committee Chair’s comments, we can revisit this in future, so that local authorities can be sure of the funds that they receive from the Assembly to meet their obligations as set out by Parliament and the Assembly. After all, this is a burden that they must bear because of decisions taken elsewhere.
Bydd Ceidwadwyr Cymru yn cefnogi’r adroddiad grant arbennig fel y’i cyflwynwyd ar gyfer y ddadl y prynhawn yma, a chefnogwn y £5.2 miliwn ychwanegol a ddyrannwyd i awdurdodau lleol. Fodd bynnag, rhannwn bryderon Cadeirydd y Pwyllgor Addysg a Dysgu Gydol Oes ac eraill am effaith y system hon o ôl-daliadau ar awdurdodau lleol. Yr wyf yn gobeithio, yng ngolwg sylwadau Cadeirydd y Pwyllgor, y gallwn ailystyried hyn yn y dyfodol, fel y gall yr awdurdodau lleol fod yn sicr am y cyllid a gânt gan y Cynulliad i gyflawni eu hymrwymiadau fel y’u nodwyd gan y Senedd a’r Cynulliad. Wedi’r cwbl, mae hwn yn faich y mae’n rhaid iddynt ei ddwyn oherwydd penderfyniadau a wnaed mewn man arall.
In light of the significant amounts of money allocated to meet these costs, will the Minister now start to review the burden on our schools, particularly in administering this scheme and its associated costs? I refer particularly to the work of headteachers and the length of time that it takes to assess teachers to see whether they are eligible for the extra payments. It is a time-consuming scheme, leading to a significant increase in bureaucracy and paperwork. We have seen the scheme running, therefore now is the time to review the burdens that exist within our schools.
Yng ngolwg y symiau sylweddol o arian a neilltuwyd i gwrdd â’r costau hyn, a wnaiff y Gweinidog ddechrau adolygu’r baich sydd ar ein hysgolion, yn enwedig wrth weinyddu’r cynllun hwn a’r costau sy’n gysylltiedig ag ef? Cyfeiriaf yn benodol at waith penaethiaid ysgol a’r cyfnod a gymerir i asesu athrawon i weld a ydynt yn gymwys i gael y taliadau ychwanegol. Mae’n gynllun sy’n mynd ag amser sy’n arwain at lawer iawn mwy o fiwrocratiaeth a gwaith papur. Gwelsom y cynllun ar waith, felly hon yw’r adeg briodol i adolygu’r beichiau a geir yn ein hysgolion.
Lastly, is the amount allocated today to fund the actual costs of teachers’ pay only, or is a proportion of the money allocated to local authorities to manage any of the additional administrative costs that may be associated with the scheme?
Yn olaf, a yw’r swm a ddyrannir heddiw ar gyfer cyllido union gostau tâl athrawon yn unig, neu a ddyrannwyd rhan o’r arian i awdurdodau lleol i ymdopi ag unrhyw rai o’r costau gweinyddol ychwanegol a allai fod yn gysylltiedig â’r cynllun?
The Welsh Liberal Democrats greatly welcome this special grant report and the funding that it supplies to local authorities, to retrospectively pay for the difference between the funding provided in the local government revenue settlement for 2001-02 for teachers’ threshold pay and the actual costs of teachers’ threshold pay to local authorities in 2001-02. It is welcome that this special grant means that teachers’ threshold pay will now be fully funded. As other speakers have mentioned, many local councils have expressed concerns about when this money would be refunded; I hope that this will put their minds at ease. Minister, we may need to address the problem of this annual anxiety that occurs in education. Will you comment on how three-year funding for education would bring greater stability to the process?
Mae Democratiaid Rhyddfrydol Cymru’n croesawu’r adroddiad grant arbennig hwn yn fawr a’r cyllid y mae’n ei roi i awdurdodau lleol, i ad-dalu’r gwahaniaeth rhwng y cyllid a ddarparwyd yn y setliad refeniw llywodraeth leol am 2001-02 ar gyfer taliadau trothwy athrawon a gwir gostau taliadau trothwy athrawon i awdurdodau lleol yn 2001-02. Peth i’w groesawu yw bod y grant arbennig hwn yn golygu y caiff tâl trothwy athrawon ei gyllido’n llawn. Fel y dywedodd siaradwyr eraill, mae llawer o gynghorwyr lleol wedi mynegi pryderon ynghylch pa bryd yr ad-delid yr arian hwn; gobeithiaf y bydd hyn yn rhoi tawelwch meddwl iddynt. Weinidog, efallai y bydd yn rhaid inni ymdrin â phroblem y pryder hwn sy’n codi mewn addysg bob blwyddyn. A wnewch sylw am y modd y byddai cyllido tair blynedd ar gyfer addysg yn dod â mwy o sefydlogrwydd i’r broses?
Back in May, the Assembly approved a special grant for teachers’ threshold pay for 2002-03, so that local authorities would be better placed for this coming year. The Minister for Education and Lifelong Learning rightly reassured the Chamber that:
Yn ôl ym mis Mai, gwnaeth y Cynulliad gymeradwyo grant arbennig ar gyfer tâl trothwy athrawon am 2002-03, fel y byddai’r awdurdodau lleol mewn gwell sefyllfa i wynebu’r flwyddyn i ddod. Mae’n briodol bod y Gweinidog dros Addysg a Dysgu Gydol Oes wedi sicrhau’r Siambr y:
‘Teachers’ pay costs will be fully considered in the local revenue settlements for 2003-04 and beyond. This matter will be taken forward in the working group that Edwina Hart is setting up with the Welsh Local Government Association.’
‘Rhoddir ystyriaeth lawn i gostau cyflogau athrawon yn y cytundebau refeniw lleol ar gyfer 2003-04 a thu hwnt. Eir â’r mater hwn yn ei flaen yn y gweithgor y mae Edwina Hart yn ei sefydlu gyda Chymdeithas Llywodraeth Leol Cymru.’
This special grant should therefore be the last such retrospective payment, with funding provided in advance for the future—a much improved position. Will the Minister once again reassure us that that will be the case?
Mae’n debyg mai’r grant arbennig hwn fydd yr ad-daliad olaf o’r fath, ac y darperir cyllid ymlaen llaw yn y dyfodol—sefyllfa well o lawer. A wnaiff y Gweinidog ein sicrhau eto mai felly y bydd?
Many teachers still feel uneasy about threshold payments because they have introduced an element of competition into the profession. Teaching, like learning, is a collaborative experience, and threshold payments go against the grain of that principle. The Welsh Liberal Democrats would prefer to link teachers’ pay with professional development. However, we recognise that teachers’ pay is not devolved and that the Assembly Government must work with the Westminster Government to improve teachers’ pay and conditions. Interestingly, Scotland has no teachers’ threshold pay, and the Scottish Liberal Democrat/Labour Government has given teachers a 21.5 per cent pay increase over three years. Even if there were a Welsh Parliament with full powers over teachers’ pay, the Barnett formula would need to be reformed to secure adequate resources for considering a similar measure in Wales.
Mae llawer o athrawon yn dal i deimlo’n anesmwyth ynghylch taliadau trothwy am eu bod wedi cyflwyno elfen o gystadlu i’r proffesiwn. Profiad cydweithiol yw dysgu, i’r athro a’r disgybl, ac mae taliadau trothwy’n mynd yn groes i’r egwyddor honno. Byddai’n well gan Ddemocratiaid Rhyddfrydol Cymru gysylltu tâl athrawon â datblygu proffesiynol. Fodd bynnag, cydnabyddwn nad yw tâl athrawon yn fater sydd wedi’i ddatganoli a bod rhaid i Lywodraeth y Cynulliad weithio gyda Llywodraeth San Steffan i wella tâl ac amodau athrawon. Diddorol yw nodi nad oes tâl trothwy i athrawon yn yr Alban, a bod Llywodraeth Democratiaid Rhyddfrydol/Llafur yr Alban wedi rhoi codiad tâl o 21.5 y cant i athrawon dros dair blynedd. Hyd yn oed pe byddai Senedd Gymreig a chanddi bwerau llawn dros dâl athrawon, byddai’n rhaid newid fformiwla Barnett i sicrhau adnoddau digonol i ystyried mesur tebyg yng Nghymru.
Yr wyf yn awyddus i ofyn cwestiwn a godwyd gan gadeirydd corff llywodraethu un o ysgolion cyfun Ceredigion. Dadl ar ariannu cyflogau trothwy athrawon yw hon, ond mynegwyd pryder i mi gan yr ysgol honno fod un strwythur cyflog a pherfformiad ar gael i rai o staff yr ysgol, sef yr athrawon, ond nad oes system debyg ar gael i weddill y staff sy’n cefnogi dysgu mewn ysgolion. Teimlad y corff llywodraethu oedd bod y sefyllfa yn golygu bod y ffordd yr ymdrinnir â thelerau a chyflogau’r staff fel un uned yn anghyson, a bod, o safbwynt yr ysgol dan sylw, wahaniaethu annheg yn y gyfundrefn bresennol. Hoffwn wybod, ar ran yr ysgol hon yn fy etholaeth, a yw’r Gweinidog wedi ystyried gwell integreiddiad yn y gyfundrefn gyflogau i holl staff ysgolion er mwyn sicrhau cyfle cyfartal.
I am eager to ask a question that was raised by the chair of the governing body of one of Ceredigion’s comprehensive schools. This debate is about funding teachers’ threshold pay, but concerns were expressed to me by that school that one pay and performance structure is available to some staff, namely teachers, but there is no such system for the rest of the staff who support learning in schools. The governing body felt that such a situation meant that the conditions and salaries of its staff as a whole were dealt with inconsistently, and that, from this school’s point of view, the current system differentiated unfairly between staff. I would like to know, on behalf of the school in question, whether the Minister has considered improved integration within the salary system for all school staff in order to ensure equality of opportunity.
Jane Davidson The Minister for Education and Lifelong Learning spoken in English p. 58
Jane Davidson Y Gweinidog dros Addysg a Dysgu Gydol Oes siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 58
I thank Members for their support for this special grant report. What I say today will reiterate my comments in a similar debate last year, when we agreed to fund the first set of payments retrospectively. When we made our commitment in 1999 to fund threshold payments, prior to the introduction of the threshold assessment, it was impossible to estimate the level of funding required to meet threshold costs in the 2000-01 and 2001-02 financial years. As 2000-01 was the first year of introduction, we had no idea how many teachers would pass through the threshold, we had no cost indicators and we had no comparators. We were right, as an Assembly Government, to make the proper commitment to local authorities that we would fully fund the costs related to the individuals who successfully passed through the threshold. We could have decided at the time that we would only do that for the introductory year. However, we wanted to ensure that teachers in Wales did not in any way feel that they were financially inhibited from going through the threshold. Therefore, we made a commitment to fund the costs for two years. A special grant report relating to the shortfall in the first year was, as has been said, approved by the National Assembly on 28 February 2002, and it provided an additional £5.6 million for education authorities.
Diolchaf i’r Aelodau am eu cefnogaeth i’r adroddiad grant arbennig hwn. Bydd yr hyn a ddywedaf heddiw’n ailadrodd fy sylwadau mewn dadl debyg y llynedd, pan wnaethom gytuno i wneud yr ad-daliadau cyntaf. Pan wnaethom ein hymrwymiad yn 1999 i ariannu taliadau trothwy, cyn cyflwyno’r asesiad trothwy, nid oedd yn bosibl amcangyfrif y lefel o gyllid y byddai ei hangen i gwrdd â’r costau trothwy ym mlynyddoedd ariannol 2000-01 a 2001-02. Gan mai yn y flwyddyn 2000-01 y’i cyflwynwyd gyntaf, nid oedd gennym unrhyw syniad pa nifer o athrawon a âi heibio i’r trothwy, nid oedd gennym unrhyw ddangosyddion costau ac nid oedd gennym unrhyw gymaryddion. Yr oedd yn iawn i ni, fel Llywodraeth Cynulliad, roi ymrwymiad priodol i’r awdurdodau lleol y byddem yn talu’n llawn am y costau sy’n gysylltiedig â’r unigolion sy’n llwyddo i fynd heibio i’r trothwy. Gallem fod wedi penderfynu ar y pryd na fyddem ond yn gwneud hynny ar gyfer y flwyddyn gyflwyniadol. Fodd bynnag, yr oeddem am sicrhau nad oedd athrawon yng Nghymru’n teimlo bod cyfyngiad ariannol arnynt o gwbl rhag mynd heibio i’r trothwy. Gan hynny, gwnaethom ymrwymiad i dalu’r costau am ddwy flynedd. Fel y dywedwyd, gwnaeth y Cynulliad gymeradwyo adroddiad grant arbennig a oedd yn ymwneud â’r diffyg yn y flwyddyn gyntaf ar 28 Chwefror 2002, a ddarparodd £5.6 miliwn ychwanegol ar gyfer awdurdodau addysg.
The timing of the threshold assessments meant that information on the number of teachers assessed as having passed the threshold standards was not available until the summer of 2002. We wrote to local education authorities asking them to inform us of the numbers. They replied and, as a result, the figures in the report are those supplied by the authorities and therefore represent the full cost of threshold pay awards in 2001-02. I, as Minister, am not only here to say what we have done; I am here to say that we fully endorse—and I would expect other parties to do likewise—the principle that we were prepared to pay in full for the introduction of this system. Local authorities were happy with that. In this, the third year of the system, we have considered what the additional costs meant in the first two years and have therefore made available an additional £18.7 million. We have illustrated once again our commitment to ensuring that costs are funded in full. As Mick mentioned, we said that Edwina would engage with the Welsh Local Government Association to ensure that all pay and price pressures would be accommodated this year and in subsequent funding arrangements. This has been done, and it is why, from 2003-04, the local government settlement will include all pay and price pressures for teachers.
Oherwydd amseriad yr asesiadau trothwy, nid oedd gwybodaeth ar gael am nifer yr athrawon yr aseswyd eu bod wedi rhagori ar safonau’r trothwy tan haf 2002. Gwnaethom ysgrifennu at yr awdurdodau addysg lleol gan ofyn iddynt ein hysbysu am y niferoedd. Gwnaethant ateb ac, o ganlyniad, y ffigurau yn yr adroddiad yw’r rhai a gyflenwyd gan yr awdurdodau ac maent felly’n cynrychioli cost lawn y dyfarniadau tâl trothwy yn 2001-02. Nid wyf yma, fel Gweinidog, i ddweud beth a wnaethom yn unig; yr wyf yma i ddweud ein bod yn llwyr gefnogi—a disgwyliwn i’r pleidiau eraill wneud yr un fath—yr egwyddor ein bod yn barod i dalu’n llawn am gyflwyno’r system hon. Yr oedd yr awdurdodau lleol yn fodlon ar hynny. Eleni, yn nhrydedd flwyddyn y system, yr ydym wedi ystyried beth a olygodd y costau ychwanegol yn y ddwy flynedd cyntaf ac felly wedi darparu £18.7 miliwn ychwanegol. Yr ydym wedi dangos unwaith eto ein hymrwymiad i sicrhau y telir y costau yn llawn. Fel y nododd Mick, dywedasom y byddai Edwina yn cydweithio â Chymdeithas Llywodraeth Leol Cymru i sicrhau darpariaeth ar gyfer yr holl bwysau tâl a phrisiau eleni ac mewn trefniadau ariannu dilynol. Gwnaed hynny, a dyna pam, o 2003-04, y bydd y setliad llywodraeth leol yn cynnwys yr holl bwysau tâl a phrisiau ar gyfer athrawon.
Derbyniaf fod aelodau o Gymdeithas Llywodraeth Leol Cymru yn fodlon â’r dull hwn o ariannu, sef gwneud ad-daliadau i ysgolion. Serch hynny, pe baech yn siarad â’r prifathrawon a’r llywodraethwyr sy’n gorfod gwneud y cynlluniau ariannol, byddech yn clywed nad yw ad-daliadau yn dda i ddim gan na allant fod yn sicr y bydd yr arian yno o gwbl. Ar lawr gwlad, yn y mannau lle y mae’n cyfrif, y gwelir y trafferthion a’r pryder.
I accept that members of the Welsh Local Government Association are satisfied with this funding arrangement, namely making retrospective payments to schools. However, were you talk to the headteachers and governors who have to make the financial arrangements, they would tell you that retrospective payments are completely impractical because there is no guarantee that the money will be made available. It is on the ground, in the places where it counts, that the problems and concerns are to be found.
We wanted to address those issues, and when I have talked to headteachers and governors, they have welcomed the guarantee that we would fully fund the outcome of threshold assessments. That was an important factor during the introductory years. We are no longer in the introductory period, but we are fully funding the future pay and price pressures. We will be able to give more security to schools and governing bodies through the budget forum arrangements, for which we will consult on regulations next year.
Yr oeddem am ymdrin â’r materion hynny, a phan fûm yn siarad â phenaethiaid ysgol a llywodraethwyr, maent wedi croesawu’r warant y byddem yn ariannu canlyniadau’r asesiadau trothwy yn llawn. Yr oedd hynny’n ffactor pwysig yn ystod y blynyddoedd cyflwyniadol. Nid ydym yn y cyfnod cyflwyniadol bellach, ond yr ydym yn ariannu’n llawn y pwysau tâl a phrisiau yn y dyfodol. Byddwn yn gallu rhoi mwy o sicrwydd i ysgolion a chyrff llywodraethu drwy drefniadau fforwm y cyllideb, y byddwn yn ymgynghori ar y rheoliadau ar ei gyfer y flwyddyn nesaf.
Jonathan Morgan and Karen Sinclair referred to the survey published yesterday by the General Teaching Council for Wales. If I had no cognisance whatsoever of the situation regarding teachers in Wales and I had watched the BBC report on television yesterday, I would have thought that Wales was in crisis. The BBC led yesterday with a report that stated that one in 10 teaching posts were unfilled. If that were the case, we would be in crisis because we would have a shortage of about 3,000 teachers. In fact, the General Teaching Council for Wales’s survey indicated that of the 913 vacancies advertised between 1 January and 31 August 2002, 63 were not filled. Thus, appointments were made to 93.1 per cent of those posts. The headline said one in 10, but it was one in 10 posts of those posts advertised between 1 January and 31 August this year. It is important to note that, in January of this year, we had some 108 vacancies, which has fallen to some 63 vacancies. There is no crisis in Wales. Some important and extremely useful issues emerge from the report, and I will work with the General Teaching Council on an action plan to be brought forward early next year.
Cyfeiriodd Jonathan Morgan a Karen Sinclair at yr arolwg a gyhoeddwyd ddoe gan Gyngor Addysgu Cyffredinol Cymru. Pe na wyddwn am sefyllfa athrawon yng Nghymru ac wedi gwylio adroddiad y BBC ar deledu ddoe, byddwn wedi tybio bod Cymru mewn argyfwng. Rhoddodd y BBC y lle blaenaf ddoe i adroddiad a nododd fod un ym mhob 10 swydd athro heb ei llenwi. Pe byddai hynny’n wir, byddem mewn argyfwng gan y byddem yn brin o tua 3,000 o athrawon. Mewn gwirionedd, nododd arolwg Cyngor Addysgu Cyffredinol Cymru mai 63 o’r 913 o swyddi gwag a hysbysebwyd rhwng 1 Ionawr a 31 Awst 2002 a oedd heb eu llenwi. Gan hynny, penodwyd i 93.1 y cant o’r swyddi hynny. Un ym mhob 10 a gyhoeddodd y pennawd, ond un ym mhob 10 o’r swyddi hynny a hysbysebwyd rhwng 1 Ionawr a 31 Awst eleni a olygid. Mae’n bwysig nodi bod gennym tua 108 o swyddi gwag yn Ionawr eleni, a bod hynny wedi gostwng i tua 63 o swyddi gwag. Nid oes argyfwng yng Nghymru. Mae rhai materion pwysig a thra buddiol yn codi o’r adroddiad, a byddaf yn gweithio gyda’r Cyngor Addysgu Cyffredinol ar gynllun gweithredu i’w ddwyn gerbron yn gynnar y flwyddyn nesaf.
As regards Jonathan’s point, it is interesting that a party that claims that it does not want increased powers for the National Assembly should ask us to take actions different from those taken by the Westminster Government on the non-devolved issues of pay and conditions. As regards Mick’s point, teachers in Scotland started on £3,000 per head less than teachers in England and Wales, in terms of their pay increase. That is why I am sure that everybody here welcomes the fact that the Labour-led Government in Scotland was able to endorse that.
Ynghylch y pwynt a wnaeth Jonathan, mae’n ddiddorol bod plaid sy’n honni nad yw am gael mwy o bwerau i’r Cynulliad Cenedlaethol yn gofyn inni gymryd camau gwahanol i’r rhai a gymerir gan Lywodraeth San Steffan ar faterion tâl ac amodau, sydd heb eu datganoli. Am y pwynt a wnaeth Mick, yr oedd athrawon yn yr Alban yn dechrau ar £3,000 y pen yn llai nag athrawon yng Nghymru a Lloegr, o ran y codiad yn eu tâl. Dyna pam yr wyf yn siŵr bod pawb yma’n creosawu’r ffaith bod y Llywodraeth dan arweiniad Llafur yn yr Alban yn gallu cefnogi hynny.
Perhaps the Minister was not listening to my earlier contribution. I asked the Minister if the Government would review the effect that this scheme has had on schools. I am not asking for anything different to occur, I am only asking that some assessments be carried out. You always say that we should base our work on evidence, so let us look at the evidence. Then we can give your colleagues in Westminster an idea of how this scheme really operates in schools and of whether it places too great an administrative burden on headteachers and staff.
Efallai na fu i’r Gweinidog wrando ar fy nghyfraniad cynharach. Gofynnais i’r Gweinidog a wnâi’r Llywodraeth adolygu’r effaith a gafodd y cynllun hwn ar ysgolion. Nid wyf yn gofyn am i rywbeth gwahanol ddigwydd, nid wyf ond yn gofyn am gynnal rhai asesiadau. Dywedwch bob amser y dylem seilio ein gwaith ar dystiolaeth, felly gadewch inni edrych ar y dystiolaeth. Wedyn gallwn roi syniad i’ch cyd-aelodau yn San Steffan o’r modd y mae’r cynllun hwn yn gweithredu mewn ysgolion mewn gwirionedd ac a yw’n ormod o faich gweinyddol ar benaethiaid ysgol a staff.
You suggest that if the scheme places too much of a burden on staff, then the system should be changed; that would require different powers. I regularly engage with all teacher associations to consider all issues surrounding schools and the education system. I regularly engage with the local education authorities and will continue to do so. The Assembly Government has made an absolute commitment to ensuring that Wales is the best place to learn and to teach. We are putting fantastic amounts of money into education. We have fully funded the threshold system and will continue to ensure that we support teachers in Wales.
Yr ydych yn awgrymu y dylid newid y system os yw’r cynllun yn ormod o faich ar staff; byddai hynny’n gofyn pwerau gwahanol. Yr wyf yn cysylltu’n rheolaidd â’r holl gymdeithasau athrawon i ystyried yr holl faterion sy’n ymwneud ag ysgolion a’r system addysg. Yr wyf yn cysylltu’n rheolaidd â’r awdurdodau addysg lleol a byddaf yn parhau i wneud hynny. Mae Llywodraeth y Cynulliad wedi ymrwymo’n llwyr i sicrhau mai Cymru yw’r lle gorau i ddysgu ac addysgu. Yr ydym yn rhoi symiau rhyfeddol o arian i addysg. Yr ydym wedi ariannu’r system trothwy’n llawn a byddwn yn parhau i sicrhau ein bod yn cefnogi athrawon yng Nghymru.
Is the Minister saying that she knows better and that she does not need to base her decisions on real independent evidence?
A yw’r Gweinidog yn dweud ei bod yn gwybod yn well ac nad oes angen iddi seilio ei phenderfyniadau ar dystiolaeth annibynnol go iawn?
Not at all. I am saying that I have regular dialogue with the whole education sector about the implementation of all education policies whether they are delivered through our colleagues in Westminster or through the Assembly. I will continue to do that because I strongly believe that we should develop the education agenda together in the interests of schools and teachers in Wales and to ensure that we get the right kind of education system to make Wales a learning country.
Dim o gwbl. Yr wyf yn dweud fy mod mewn deialog reolaidd â’r holl sector addysg ynghylch gweithredu pob polisi addysg, pa un a weithredir ef drwy ein cyd-Weinidogion yn San Steffan neu drwy’r Cynulliad. Byddaf yn dal i wneud hynny gan fy mod yn credu’n gryf y dylem ddatblygu’r agenda addysg gyda’n gilydd er budd ysgolion ac athrawon yng Nghymru ac i sicrhau ein bod yn cael y math iawn o system addysg i wneud Cymru’n wlad sy’n dysgu.
John Marek The Deputy Presiding Officer spoken in English p. 62
John Marek Y Dirprwy Lywydd siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 62
I now call for a vote on the motion.
Galwaf yn awr am bleidlais ar y cynnig.
I was just going to turn to Elin’s point.
Yr oeddwn ar fin troi at bwynt Elin.
John Marek The Deputy Presiding Officer spoken in English p. 62
John Marek Y Dirprwy Lywydd siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 62
You must be quick—you have already had nine minutes.
Rhaid ichi fod yn gyflym—yr ydych eisoes wedi cael naw munud.
In response to Elin Jones’s point, contracts for support staff is a matter for the local education authority. There will be a great deal of interest in the role of support staff over the next few years, and local authorities should look hard at the way in which they recognise support staff, particularly those with qualifications, such as nursery nurses.
Mewn ymateb i’r pwynt a wnaeth Elin Jones, mae contractau ar gyfer staff cynorthwyol yn fater i’r awdurdod addysg lleol. Bydd llawer iawn o ddiddordeb yn rôl y staff cynorthwyol dros y blynyddoedd nesaf, a dylai awdurdodau lleol edrych yn fanwl ar y modd y maent yn rhoi cydnabyddiaeth i staff cynorthwyol, yn enwedig y rhai sydd â chymwysterau, fel nyrsys meithrin.
Cynnig NDM1244 Jane Davidson t. 62
Motion NDM1244 Jane Davidson p. 62
DerbyniwydAdopted O blaidFor 46 YmatalAbstain 0 Yn erbynAgainst 0
Derbyniwyd y cynnig.
Motion carried.
Sut y pleidleisiodd yr AelodauHow Members voted
O blaidFor (46)
- Lorraine Barrett
- Mick Bates
- Peter Black
- Nick Bourne
- Eleanor Burnham
- Alun Cairns
- Christine Chapman
- Cynog Dafis
- Jane Davidson
- Andrew Davies
- David Davies
- Geraint Davies
- Jocelyn Davies
- Sue Essex
- Delyth Evans
- Michael German
- William Graham
- Janice Gregory
- John Griffiths
- Brian Gibbons
- Alison Halford
- Edwina Hart
- Jane Hutt
- Pauline Jarman
- Ann Jones
- Carwyn Jones
- David Ian Jones
- Elin Jones
- Gareth Jones
- Peter Law
- Huw Lewis
- David Lloyd
- Val Lloyd
- David Melding
- Tom Middlehurst
- Jonathan Morgan
- Rhodri Morgan
- Lynne Neagle
- Alun Pugh
- Jenny Randerson
- Peter Rogers
- Janet Ryder
- Karen Sinclair
- Gwenda Thomas
- Rhodri Glyn Thomas
- Phil Williams
Dadl Plaid Leiafrifol (Plaid Cymru)
Minority Party Debate (Plaid Cymru)
Polisi Ynni Cynaliadwy
Sustainable Energy Policy
John Marek The Deputy Presiding Officer spoken in English p. 63
John Marek Y Dirprwy Lywydd siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 63
I have selected amendment 1 in the name of Carwyn Jones and amendments 2, 3, and 4 in the name of Jonathan Morgan.
Yr wyf wedi dethol gwelliant 1 yn enw Carwyn Jones a gwelliannau 2, 3 a 4 yn enw Jonathan Morgan.
I propose that
Cynigiaf fod
It was the issue of climate change that brought me back into politics and the Economic Development Committee’s energy review has certainly been the most satisfying part of my work as an Assembly Member. The review is an example of all parties working together. In terms of renewable energy, we have set a benchmark of producing 4 tWh of electricity per annum by 2010, which is around 20 per cent of the electricity generated in Wales. This target can be achieved through an illustrative portfolio of renewable and non-polluting projects already proposed, with a third using onshore wind energy, a third using offshore wind energy and a third using other technologies. I hope that the Government will accept these recommendations before I leave the Assembly, and use the excellent work of the Countryside Council for Wales to determine the best possible locations for the projects. I also hope that it will issue technical advice note 8 on renewable energy, which has been delayed several times. I live in hope, but during the three and a half years since the Assembly was established, no significant capacity for renewable energy has been added anywhere in Wales. As a result, Cambrian Engineering has, largely, relocated to Scotland where the Government has genuine commitment and drive to develop sustainable energy. Is a complete halt in the development of renewable energy what the Government’s amendment 1 welcomes as progress?
Y newid yn yr hinsawdd oedd y pwnc a ddaeth â mi’n ôl i wleidyddiaeth ac adolygiad y Pwyllgor Datblygu Economaidd o ynni fu’r rhan fwyaf boddhaol o’m gwaith fel Aelod o’r Cynulliad, yn sicr. Mae’r adolygiad yn enghraifft o weithio ar y cyd gan yr holl bleidiau. Yng nghyd-destun ynni adnewyddadwy, yr ydym wedi gosod meincnod o gynhyrchu 4 tW yr awr o drydan y flwyddyn erbyn 2010, sef tua 20 y cant o’r trydan a gynhyrchir yng Nghymru. Gellir cyrraedd y targed hwn drwy bortffolio enghreifftiol o brosiectau adnewyddadwy ac annifwynol a gynigiwyd eisoes, y mae un rhan o dair ohonynt yn defnyddio ynni gwynt ar y tir, un rhan o dair yn defnyddio ynni gwynt ar y môr ac un rhan o dair yn defnyddio technolegau eraill. Gobeithiaf y bydd y Llywodraeth yn derbyn yr argymhellion hyn cyn imi adael y Cynulliad, ac yn defnyddio gwaith rhagorol Cyngor Cefn Gwlad Cymru i bennu’r lleoliadau gorau posibl ar gyfer y prosiectau. Yr wyf hefyd yn gobeithio y bydd yn cyhoeddi nodyn cyngor technegol 8 ar ynni adnewyddadwy, sydd wedi’i ohirio sawl gwaith. Yr wyf yn byw mewn gobaith, ond yn ystod y tair blynedd a hanner ers sefydlu’r Cynulliad, nid ychwanegwyd unrhyw allu sylweddol i gynhyrchu ynni adnewyddadwy yn unman yng Nghymru. O ganlyniad, mae Cambrian Engineering wedi ail-leoli, i raddau helaeth, yn yr Alban lle y mae’r Llywodraeth yn meddu ar wir ymroddiad a phenderfyniad i ddatblygu ynni cynaliadwy. Ai sefyll yn stond wrth ddatblygu ynni adnewyddadwy yw’r hyn y mae gwelliant 1 y Llywodraeth yn ei groesawu a’i alw’n gynnydd?
We are now engaged in the second part of the review, which is considering energy conservation. This must be seen as the necessary complement to the switch to renewable generation. Some activists who oppose renewable energy say that we should concentrate on conservation instead. I say that we must pursue both and set a target to reduce energy consumption by 20 per cent. If we combine the two targets, we will see a significant reduction in carbon dioxide emissions.
Yr ydym yn ymgymryd yn awr ag ail ran yr adolygiad, sy’n ystyried arbed ynni. Rhaid gweld hynny’n rhywbeth sy’n cyd-fynd â’r newid i gynhyrchu adnewyddadwy. Dywed rhai gweithredwyr sy’n gwrthwynebu ynni adnewyddadwy y dylem ganolbwyntio ar arbed ynni yn lle hynny. Dywedaf innau fod rhaid inni geisio’r ddau a gosod targed i leihau’r defnydd o ynni o 20 y cant. Os cyfunwn y ddau darged, gwelwn ostyngiad sylweddol mewn gollyngiadau carbon deuocsid.
I had hoped that this debate would mark the beginning of the consultation on stage two of the review by encouraging a constructive and non-partisan debate on how we can cut our energy demand. Last week, I mentioned to the Minister for Economic Development that we wanted this to be a constructive all-party debate. Therefore, I was disappointed, although not surprised, when I read amendment 1. Every time that I have drafted a motion over the last two years—choosing the words carefully in order to be constructive and avoid any unnecessary gratuitous criticism—my wording has been deleted. Therefore, I must explain why amendment 1 is depressingly inadequate and indefensibly complacent.
Yr oeddwn wedi gobeithio y byddai’r ddadl hon yn nodi dechrau’r ymgynghori ar ail ran yr adolygiad drwy hybu dadlau adeiladol ac amhleidiol ar sut y gallwn gwtogi ar ein galw am ynni. Yr wythnos diwethaf, soniais wrth y Gweinidog dros Ddatblygu Economaidd ein bod yn dymuno i’r ddadl hon fod yn un adeiladol i’r holl bleidiau. Siom i mi, felly, ond nid syndod, oedd darllen gwelliant 1. Bob tro imi ddrafftio cynnig dros y ddwy flynedd diwethaf—gan ddewis y geiriau’n ofalus er mwyn bod yn adeiladol ac osgoi beirniadaeth diangen a di-alw-amdani—mae fy ngeiriau wedi’u dileu. Gan hynny, rhaid imi egluro pam y mae gwelliant 1 yn drist o annigonol ac yn anesgusodol o ddifater.
As usual, I will start with sums. Not for the first time, and probably not for the last, I will remind the Assembly that if you get your sums wrong, your policies are built on sand. We have seen that with Objective 1, with the economic development strategy and with the Barnett formula. In the case of energy conservation, the sums are simple. There are almost 1.3 million houses in Wales, 19 per cent, or 240,000, of which are officially classified as unfit and lacking insulation. Thirty per cent were built before 1919 and have solid walls. In order to achieve a 20 per cent cut in home energy consumption, we would need to cut the energy used by 600,000 houses by 40 per cent. That is technically possible. However, how do present plans match that optimistic target? Houses owned by local authorities or housing associations are covered by the Home Energy Conservation Act 1995, introduced in Westminster by Cynog Dafis, who will speak in this debate. The Act has a target of improving energy efficiency by 30 per cent by 2010. The evidence that the Committee received from the local authorities’ energy group suggests that there are problems in implementing the Act and that there is confusion with a large number of sources of financial support. We recommend one central pot of money and a co-ordinated approach among local authorities. The group also states that there is often inadequate staff to deal with the responsibilities under the Act, a lack of detailed knowledge of existing stock, and, under the present regime of low energy costs, a lack of demand. Nevertheless, the public sector represents the most promising part of the scenario. The position is currently less promising for the 1 million houses in the private sector, where we mainly find the old and unfit stock and the fuel poverty. That is also where the greatest savings must be made. There are many excellent schemes, but they are on such a scale that they do not touch the problem. The home energy efficiency scheme, for example, is excellent, except that it only has a budget of £9.2 million rising to £13 million. The average spending needed to make a significant and useful reduction in heat consumption is estimated as being around £3,000 per home. Therefore, the HEES budget can tackle around 3,000 homes a year, rising to 4,000. If you were in a really black mood, you would say that we would reach our target in 200 years.
Yn ôl fy arfer, dechreuaf â symiau. Nid am y tro cyntaf, ac nid am y tro olaf mae’n debyg, atgoffaf y Cynulliad mai codi polisïau ar dywod yr ydych, os yw’ch symiau’n anghywir. Gwelsom hynny yn achos Amcan 1, y strategaeth datblygu economaidd a fformiwla Barnett. Yn achos arbed ynni, mae’r symiau’n syml. Mae bron 1.3 miliwn o dai yng Nghymru, y mae 19 y cant, neu 240,000, ohonynt wedi’u dynodi’n swyddogol yn rhai sy’n anaddas a heb eu hinsiwleiddio. Codwyd 30 y cant ohonynt cyn 1919 ac mae iddynt waliau solet. Er mwyn sicrhau gostyngiad o 20 y cant yn y defnydd o ynni yn y cartref, byddai’n rhaid inni gwtogi’r ynni a ddefnyddir gan 600,000 o dai o 40 y cant. Mae hynny’n dechnegol bosibl. Fodd bynnag, sut y mae’r cynlluniau presennol yn cymharu â’r targed optimistaidd hwnnw? Mae tai sy’n eiddo i awdurdodau lleol neu gymdeithasau tai’n dod o dan y Ddeddf Arbed Ynni Cartref 1995, a gyflwynwyd yn San Steffan gan Cynog Dafis, a fydd yn siarad yn y ddadl hon. Ceir targed yn y Ddeddf o wella effeithlonrwydd ynni o 30 y cant erbyn 2010. Mae’r dystiolaeth a gafodd y Pwyllgor gan grŵp ynni’r awdurdodau lleol yn awgrymu bod problemau wrth weithredu’r Ddeddf a bod dryswch gyda nifer fawr o ffynonellau o gymorth ariannol. Yr ydym yn argymell y dylid cael un gronfa arian ganolog a dull gweithredu cyd-drefnedig rhwng awdurdodau lleol. Mae’r grŵp yn dweud hefyd nad oes digon o staff yn aml i ddelio â’r cyfrifoldebau o dan y Ddeddf, bod diffyg gwybodaeth fanwl am y stoc bresennol, ac, o dan y gyfundrefn bresennol o gostau ynni isel, fod diffyg galw. Er hynny, y sector cyhoeddus yw’r rhan fwyaf addawol o’r darlun. Mae’r sefyllfa’n llai addawol ar hyn o bryd i’r 1 filiwn o dai yn y sector preifat, lle y cawn y rhan fwyaf o’r stoc hen ac anaddas a’r tlodi tanwydd. Dyna lle y mae’n rhaid cael yr arbedion mwyaf hefyd. Mae llawer o gynlluniau rhagorol, ond oherwydd eu maint nid ydynt yn cyffwrdd â’r broblem. Mae’r cynllun effeithlonrwydd ynni cartref, er enghraifft, yn rhagorol, heblaw am y ffaith nad yw ei gyllideb yn ddim ond £9.2 miliwn a fydd yn codi i £13 miliwn. Amcangyfrifir y bydd yn rhaid gwario tua £3,000 ar bob cartref ar gyfartaledd i gael gostyngiad sylweddol a buddiol yn y defnydd o wres. Felly, gall cyllideb y cynllun effeithlonrwydd ynni cartref drin tua 3,000 o gartrefi’r flwyddyn, gan godi i 4,000. Pe baech mewn hwyliau drwg, dywedech y byddwn yn cyrraedd ein targed ymhen 200 o flynyddoedd.
The energy efficiency commitment scheme puts an obligation on utilities to invest in energy efficiency. Such excellent schemes have been used in America for many years. A few months ago, I visited a home in Trecenydd, Caerphilly, where an old lady had had her house transformed by British Gas. That is a real answer to fuel poverty and is an excellent scheme that will contribute £7.5 million a year to the fund—enough for around 2,500 homes a year. If we add the two funding sources together, in a black mood, we could maybe cut our target to 120 years. However, if we have not succeeded in cutting carbon dioxide emissions by then, it will all be irrelevant.
Mae’r cynllun ymrwymiad effeithlonrwydd ynni yn gorfodi cyfleustodau i fuddsoddi mewn effeithlonrwydd ynni. Defnyddir cynlluniau rhagorol o’r fath yn America ers blynyddoedd lawer. Rai misoedd yn ôl, ymwelais â chartref yn Nhrecenydd, Caerffili, lle’r oedd British Gas wedi trawsnewid tŷ un hen wraig. Dyna’r gwir ateb i dlodi tanwydd ac mae’n gynllun rhagorol a fydd yn cyfrannu £7.5 miliwn y flwyddyn i’r gronfa—digon ar gyfer 2,500 o gartrefi’r flwyddyn. Os cyfunwn y ddwy ffynhonnell ariannu, a ninnau mewn hwyliau drwg, efallai y gallem dorri ein targed i 120 o flynyddoedd. Fodd bynnag, os na fyddwn wedi llwyddo i leihau gollyngiadau carbon deuocsid erbyn hynny, bydd y cwbl yn amherthnasol.
There are also other schemes by other organisations. The UK Government funds the Energy Savings Trust to develop the infrastructure of energy efficiency and there is also an organisation called National Energy Action Wales. However, their total budgets are small. Therefore, the sums are simple and only use addition and division. I challenge the Government to justify its deletion of clause 3 in our motion. The simple fact is—and I believe that this exposes the Government’s complacency—that with all these schemes working at their current level, home energy consumption is rising steadily. We need a step change in the energy saving campaign if we are to have any hope of making a real impact on carbon dioxide emissions.
Mae cynlluniau eraill gan gyrff eraill hefyd. Mae Llywodraeth y DU yn cyllido’r Ymddiriedolaeth Arbed Ynni i ddatblygu’r seilwaith effeithlonrwydd ynni ac mae corff arall o’r enw Gweithredu Ynni Cenedlaethol Cymru. Fodd bynnag, mae cyfanswm eu cyllidebau’n fach. Felly, mae’r symiau’n syml ac nid ydynt ond yn defnyddio adio a rhannu. Heriaf y Llywodraeth i gyfiawnhau dileu cymal 3 yn ein cynnig. Y ffaith syml yw—a chredaf fod hyn yn datgelu difaterwch y Llywodraeth—â’r holl gynlluniau hyn yn gweithio ar eu lefel bresennol, fod y defnydd o ynni yn y cartref yn codi’n gyson. Mae arnom angen newid sylweddol yn yr ymgyrch arbed ynni os ydym i gael rhyw obaith o gael effaith wirioneddol ar ollyngiadau carbon deuocsid.
The ideal answer in a wonderful, utopian world would be to build new houses with far more stringent insulation standards; we look forward to that being included in the new standards. The Energy Savings Trust refers to zero-energy housing, which is technically possible. If that sounds utopian, even the House Builders Federation reports that carbon dioxide output from an average newly-built house is only 20 per cent of the output of an old house with no insulation and standard gas central heating. Unfortunately, at present, only 8,000 new homes are built in Wales every year. It would take a long time to replace existing stock and, therefore, we must face the challenge of improving insulation in every old house by installing condensing gas central heating and rapidly expanding the use of solar heating. It is ironic that Wales is one of the leading solar panel manufacturers in Europe, with several production units. However, most of the output goes to Germany. There were job losses recently in Thermomax Ltd in Blackwood because the high value of the pound had hit the export trade. It is an indictment of the lack of urgency given to this sector that the home market was far too small to buffer the shock of those losses.
Yr ateb delfrydol mewn byd wtopaidd, bendigedig fyddai codi tai newydd gan ddilyn safonau insiwleiddio caethach o lawer; edrychwn ymlaen at gynnwys hynny yn y safonau newydd. Mae’r Ymddiriedolaeth Arbed Ynni yn cyfeirio at dai ynni sero, sy’n dechnegol bosibl. Os yw hynny’n swnio’n wtopaidd, mae hyd yn oed Ffederasiwn yr Adeiladwyr Tai yn adrodd nad yw’r carbon deuocsid a gynhyrchir gan dŷ cyffredin sydd wedi’i godi o’r newydd ond yn 20 y cant o’r hyn a gynhyrchir gan hen dŷ sydd heb insiwleiddio ac sydd â gwres canolog nwy arferol. Gwaetha’r modd, ar hyn o bryd, dim ond 8,000 o gartrefi newydd a godir yng Nghymru bob blwyddyn. Cymerai amser hir i’r rheini gymryd lle’r stoc bresennol ac, felly, rhaid inni wynebu’r her o wella’r insiwleiddio ym mhob hen dŷ drwy osod gwres canolog nwy cyddwyso a chynyddu’r defnydd o wresogi o ynni’r haul yn gyflym. Mae’n eironig mai Cymru yw un o’r cynhyrchwyr paneli ynni’r haul mwyaf blaenllaw yn Ewrop, a bod yma sawl uned gynhyrchu. Fodd bynnag, aiff y rhan fwyaf o’r cynnyrch i’r Almaen. Collwyd swyddi’n ddiweddar yn Thermomax Cyf. yn y Coed Duon am fod gwerth uchel y bunt wedi taro’r fasnach allforio. Collfarn ar y diffyg pwys a roddir ar y sector hwn yw bod y farchnad gartref yn rhy fach o lawer i leddfu ysgytwad y colledion hynny.
I recently visited a factory in Caerphilly, which is launching a new product that draws warm air into a house from the loft or, better still, from under the tiles where the average temperature is significantly above ambient. That would be ideal for older terraced houses. However, how many will have such technology by 2010? The technologies exist to reduce total home consumption by at least 40 per cent, with a pay-back time that is economically competitive. What is even more attractive is that it involves labour-intensive, local work so that we can meet ambitious energy targets while spreading prosperity throughout Wales. There are no technical problems, but there are economic benefits in achieving quite ambitious targets. All that we lack is the political will and dedication. The Government’s amendment 1 welcomes a situation where the development of renewable energy sources has stood still for over three years, where home energy consumption continues to increase, and where the two renewable energy measures in Objective 1—which I care about greatly and fought to have included—have so far allocated less than £1 million out of a total of £43 million or just over 2 per cent. This is the progress welcomed by the Government’s amendment, and I reject it.
Yn ddiweddar, ymwelais â ffatri yng Nghaerffili, sy’n lansio cynnyrch newydd sy’n tynnu aer cynnes i dŷ o’r groglofft neu, yn well byth, o’r tu isaf i’r teils lle y mae’r tymheredd yn uwch o lawer na’r tymheredd amgylchynol. Byddai hynny’n ddelfrydol i dai rhes hŷn. Fodd bynnag, sawl un ohonynt fydd â thechnoleg o’r fath erbyn 2010? Mae technolegau ar gael i leihau’r cyfanswm o ynni a ddefnyddir yn y cartref o 40 y cant o leiaf, gydag amser ad-dalu sy’n gystadleuol yn economaidd. Yr hyn sy’n fwy deniadol byth yw ei fod yn golygu gwaith llafurddwys, lleol fel y gallwn gyrraedd targedau ynni uchelgeisiol gan ledaenu ffyniant ledled Cymru. Nid oes problemau technegol, ond ceir manteision economaidd drwy gyrraedd targedau eithaf uchelgeisiol. Yr unig beth yr ydym yn brin ohono yw’r ewyllys a’r ymroddiad gwleidyddol. Mae gwelliant 1 y Llywodraeth yn croesawu sefyllfa lle y mae’r datblygu ar ffynonellau ynni adnewyddadwy yn sefyll yn stond ers dros dair blynedd, tra bo’r defnydd o ynni yn y cartref yn dal i gynyddu, a lle y mae’r ddau fesur ynni adnewyddadwy yn Amcan 1—yr ymboenaf yn fawr yn eu cylch ac yr ymleddais dros eu cynnwys—wedi dyrannu llai nag £1 filiwn hyd yn hyn o gyfanswm o £43 miliwn neu ychydig dros 2 y cant. Dyma’r cynnydd a groesewir gan welliant y Llywodraeth, ac yr wyf yn ei wrthod.
Point of order. I would like your guidance, Deputy Presiding Officer, as to whether we have a quorum requirement for Plenary. Many seats are empty. Are we in danger of being inquorate?
Pwynt o drefn. Hoffwn gael arweiniad gennych, Ddirprwy Lywydd, ynghylch a oes gofyniad am gworwm ar gyfer Cyfarfod Llawn. Mae llawer o seddi gwag. A oes perygl inni fod heb gworwm?
John Marek The Deputy Presiding Officer spoken in English p. 68
John Marek Y Dirprwy Lywydd siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 68
There is no quorum requirement. We are in session and we are in order.
Nid oes gofyniad am gworwm. Yr ydym yn eistedd ac yr ydym mewn trefn.
Andrew Davies The Minister for Economic Development spoken in English p. 68
Andrew Davies Y Gweinidog dros Ddatblygu Economaidd siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 68
I propose amendment 1 in the name of Carwyn Jones. Delete all after ‘National Assembly for Wales’ and replace with:
Cynigiaf welliant 1 yn enw Carwyn Jones. Dileu popeth ar ôl ‘Cynulliad Cenedlaethol Cymru’ a rhoi yn ei le:
I propose the following amendments in the name of Jonathan Morgan. Amendment 2: delete point 2 and replace with:
Cynigiaf y gwelliannau canlynol yn enw Jonathan Morgan. Gwelliant 2: dileu pwynt 2 a rhoi yn ei le:
William Graham (continued) spoken in English p. 69
William Graham (parhad) siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 69
I propose amendment 3. After ‘acknowledges’ in point 3, insert:
Cynigiaf welliant 3. Ar ôl ‘yn cydnabod’ ym mhwynt 3, ychwanegu:
William Graham (continued) spoken in English p. 69
William Graham (parhad) siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 69
I propose amendment 4. Insert as a new point after point 3 and renumber accordingly:
Cynigiaf welliant 4. Ychwanegu pwynt newydd ar ôl pwynt 3, ac ailrifo’r pwyntiau sy’n weddill yn unol â hynny:
William Graham (continued) spoken in English p. 69
William Graham (parhad) siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 69
In moving these amendments we seek to address the points made in the motion. To realise the vision of providing quality standard housing incorporating the latest energy-saving efficiency measures for all the people of Wales, we must appreciate and understand the demographic changes in our population; the changing pattern of tenure and ownership; the condition and age of our housing stock; the advances in house design and new technology that ensure greater energy efficiency; and the needs and aspirations of the people who will make these properties their homes. We recognise that we live in an ageing society, but many of our elderly people, particularly in rural areas, live in houses that were built at the beginning of the last century, which have had limited renovation and are the least energy efficient. We also recognise the desire of the majority of our people to retain their independence, to remain in their own homes, stay in their own communities and continue to be with their friends and family, using the same shops, services and amenities.
Drwy gynnig y gwelliannau hyn yr ydym yn ceisio ymdrin â’r pwyntiau a wneir yn y cynnig. Er mwyn gwireddu’r weledigaeth o ddarparu tai safonol o ansawdd da sy’n cynnwys y mesurau effeithlonrwydd arbed ynni diweddaraf ar gyfer holl bobl Cymru, rhaid inni werthfawrogi a deall y newidiadau demograffig yn ein poblogaeth; y newid yn y patrwm daliadaeth a pherchnogaeth; cyflwr ac oed ein stoc dai; y cynnydd mewn cynllunio tai a thechnoleg newydd sy’n sicrhau mwy o effeithlonrwydd ynni; ac anghenion a dyheadau’r bobl y bydd y tai hyn yn gartrefi iddynt. Cydnabyddwn ein bod yn byw mewn cymdeithas sy’n heneiddio, ond mae llawer o’n pobl oedrannus, yn enwedig mewn ardaloedd gwledig, yn byw mewn tai a godwyd ar ddechrau’r ganrif ddiwethaf, na fu fawr o adnewyddu arnynt ac sy’n lleiaf effeithlon o ran ynni. Yr ydym hefyd yn cydnabod awydd y rhan fwyaf o’n pobl i gadw eu hannibyniaeth, i aros yn eu cartrefi eu hunain, i aros yn eu cymunedau eu hunain ac i barhau i fod gyda’u ffrindiau a’u teulu, gan ddefnyddio’r un siopau, gwasanaethau a mwynderau.
The limited mobility of those experiencing ill health, or the disabled, requires additional expenditure on energy. We must target these people with resources to improve the energy efficiency of their homes. These two groups of people represent the majority of those living in conditions acknowledged as fuel poverty. However, the issue of fuel poverty extends beyond these groups. It affects homes where children do not have a warm environment to study or sleep. In these conditions the factors that determine health inequality increase. The need to set processes in motion to improve the lifestyles of these people is reflected in amendment 2 in the name of Jonathan Morgan. We must recognise the fact that the power to tackle the issue of fuel poverty lies outside the Assembly. The United Kingdom’s ‘The Energy Report’ states that the number of fuel poor households fell by over 1.5 million between 1991 and 1996. This achievement was not gained through an increase in energy efficiency programmes; the greatest benefit to the energy consumer and reduction in incidents of fuel poverty came from the privatisation of the utilities. Real energy prices between 1991 and 1996 for domestic energy users fell by 8.5 per cent for gas, 10.5 per cent for heating oils, and 5 per cent for electricity, even after allowing for the imposition of VAT. A report from the Organisation for Economic Co-operation and Development in May praised the previous United Kingdom Government’s privatisation programme on the grounds that:
Mae symudoledd cyfyngedig y rhai gwael eu hiechyd, a’r anabl, yn gofyn am wariant ychwanegol ar ynni. Rhaid inni anelu adnoddau at y bobl hyn i wella effeithlonrwydd ynni eu cartrefi. Y ddau grŵp hyn yw mwyafrif y rhai sy’n byw o dan amgylchiadau y cydnabyddir eu bod yn golygu tlodi tanwydd. Er hynny, mae mater tlodi tanwydd yn ymestyn y tu hwnt i’r grwpiau hyn. Mae’n effeithio ar gartrefi lle nad oes amgylchedd cynnes i blant gael astudio neu gysgu. O dan yr amgylchiadau hyn ceir cynnydd yn y ffactorau sy’n pennu anghydraddoldeb iechyd. Adlewyrchir yr angen i roi prosesau ar waith i wella ffyrdd o fyw’r bobl hyn yng ngwelliant 2 yn enw Jonathan Morgan. Rhaid inni gydnabod bod y pŵer i fynd i’r afael â mater tlodi tanwydd y tu allan i’r Cynulliad. Dywed ‘The Energy Report’ y Deyrnas Unedig fod nifer y teuluoedd lle y mae tlodi tanwydd wedi gostwng o fwy nag 1.5 miliwn rhwng 1991 a 1996. Ni chyflawnwyd hyn drwy gynnydd mewn rhaglenni effeithlonrwydd ynni; daeth y budd mwyaf i’r defnyddiwr ynni a’r gostyngiad yn nifer y digwyddiadau o dlodi tanwydd o ganlyniad i breifateiddio’r cyfleustodau. Bu gostyngiad yn y prisiau ynni gwirioneddol i ddefnyddwyr ynni domestig rhwng 1991 a 1996 o 8.5 y cant yn achos nwy, 10.5 y cant yn achos olew gwresogi, a 5 y cant yn achos trydan, hyd yn oed ar ôl ystyried TAW. Rhoddwyd canmoliaeth mewn adroddiad gan y Gymdeithas Cydweithrediad a Datblygiad Economaidd ym mis Mai i raglen breifateiddio Llywodraeth flaenorol y Deyrnas Unedig oherwydd:
‘since privatisation, most of the regulated utilities have achieved substantial improvements in productivity, and consumers have benefited from large reductions in real prices as well as improved quality of service.’
ers preifateiddio, mae’r rhan fwyaf o’r cyfleustodau a reoleiddir wedi sicrhau gwelliannau sylweddol yn eu cynhyrchiant, ac mae defnyddwyr wedi cael budd o ostyngiadau mawr mewn prisiau gwirioneddol yn ogystal â gwasanaeth o ansawdd gwell.
The Conservative group fully supports all measures to alleviate fuel poverty, but as these figures illustrate, the proposal to effect this matter by the use of fiscal measures will have limited impact on the successful progress of this issue.
Mae’r grŵp Ceidwadol yn llwyr gefnogi’r holl fesurau i liniaru tlodi tanwydd, ond fel y dengys y ffigurau hyn, ychydig a wnaiff y bwriad i gyflawni hyn drwy ddefnyddio mesurau cyllidol i hyrwyddo’r mater hwn yn llwyddiannus.
Amendment 3 identifies the failure by local authorities to maintain adequate records on the condition of their housing stocks. It will be claimed that there was underinvestment for housing maintenance and repair; but the reality is that this was simply bad management practice. It will be claimed that the better quality local authority housing stock has been bought by former tenants under the right to buy scheme; but the number of houses being bought under the right to buy scheme shows no sign of declining. These factors should have made it easier to record their state of repair and levels of energy efficiency.
Mae gwelliant 3 yn nodi’r methiant ar ran awdurdodau lleol i gadw cofnodion digonol ar gyflwr eu stociau tai. Honnir y bu tanfuddsoddi mewn cynnal a chadw a thrwsio tai; ond y gwir yw mai rheoli gwael oedd y rheswm am hynny. Honnir bod y tai o safon uwch o stoc dai’r awdurdodau lleol wedi’u prynu gan gyn-denantiaid o dan y cynllun hawl i brynu; ond nid oes arwydd bod gostyngiad yn y nifer o dai a brynir o dan y cynllun hawl i brynu. Dylai’r ffactorau hyn fod wedi hwyluso cofnodi eu cyflwr a’u lefelau o effeithlonrwydd ynni.
We must recognise the changing pattern in home ownership if we are to successfully address fuel poverty. Is it the first step to raising the quality of local authority housing stock, or is it, given the growth of private ownership, a step in the wrong direction? The vast majority of people and homes are excluded by a policy that primarily focuses upon local authority and registered social landlord housing stock. If we are to seriously address this issue, we must consider ways of increasing availability and funding, to promote the achievement of the Welsh housing quality standard for owner-occupied housing within the timescale set for social housing.
Rhaid inni gydnabod y newid ym mhatrwm perchnogaeth tai os ydym i ymdrin yn llwyddiannus â thlodi tanwydd. Ai’r cam cyntaf tuag at wella ansawdd stoc dai awdurdodau lleol ydyw, neu, o ystyried y twf mewn perchnogaeth breifat, ai cam i’r cyfeiriad anghywir ydyw? Mae’r mwyafrif helaeth o bobl a chartrefi wedi’u heithrio gan bolisi sy’n canolbwyntio’n bennaf ar stoc dai awdurdodau lleol a landlordiaid cymdeithasol cofrestredig. Os ydym i ymdrin o ddifrif â’r mater hwn, rhaid inni ystyried dulliau o gynyddu’r ddarpariaeth a’r cyllid, er mwyn hybu’r broses o gyrraedd safon ansawdd tai Cymru yn nhai perchen-ddeiliaid o fewn yr amserlen a bennwyd ar gyfer tai cymdeithasol.
If we are to have an impact on global warming, we must look to cleaner sources of energy as part of the renewable energy agenda. That is already recognised in the Assembly’s ‘Plan for Wales 2001’, where the desire for Wales to become a showcase for clean energy is highlighted. Renewable energy has the potential to deliver considerable economic benefits for Wales, as well as being at the heart of the Welsh Labour-led Assembly Government’s commitment to a sustainable future for Wales. It will also be vital to the development of future energy policy. Wales has the opportunity to lead the way in clean energy production and to develop a significant indigenous generation and supply industry in new renewable technologies. One small example is that we contribute significantly to onshore wind electricity generation and, therefore, we are already playing a significant role in UK terms, but we have both the geography and the climate to do more.
Os ydym i gael effaith ar y cynhesu byd-eang, rhaid inni ystyried ffynonellau ynni glanach fel rhan o agenda ynni adnewyddadwy. Cydnabyddir hynny eisoes yn ‘Cynllun i Gymru 2001’ y Cynulliad, lle y tynnir sylw at yr awydd i Gymru osod esiampl o ran ynni glân. Gall ynni adnewyddadwy ddod â buddion economaidd sylweddol i Gymru, ac mae hefyd yn ganolog i ymrwymiad Llywodraeth y Cynulliad dan arweiniad Llafur Cymru i greu dyfodol cynaliadwy i Gymru. Bydd yn hollbwysig hefyd wrth ddatblygu polisi ynni at y dyfodol. Mae gan Gymru gyfle i arwain mewn cynhyrchu ynni glân a datblygu diwydiant cynhyrchu a chyflenwi cynhenid sylweddol mewn technolegau adnewyddadwy newydd. Un enghraifft fach o hynny yw ein bod yn cyfrannu’n sylweddol at gynhyrchu trydan gwynt ar y tir ac, felly, yr ydym eisoes yn chwarae rhan o bwys yng nghyd-destun y DU, ond mae ein daearyddiaeth a’n hinsawdd yn golygu y gallwn wneud rhagor.
It is not only in the provision of energy supply that we can contribute to sustainable energy—and I agree wholeheartedly with Phil. It is a two-pronged approach; we can also contribute through our personal everyday use. The creation of the Carbon Trust in Wales is driving forward the advantages of energy efficiency measures in industry and the public sector. The Welsh Assembly Government has placed energy efficiency and energy conservation at the heart of all its policies. If we all pay greater and more serious attention to energy efficiency in our homes, offices, factories and leisure centres, we can make a major contribution to a sustainable Wales.
Nid drwy ddarparu cyflenwad ynni’n unig y gallwn gyfrannu at ynni cynaliadwy—a chytunaf yn llwyr â Phil. Dull gweithredu deuol ydyw; gallwn hefyd gyfrannu drwy ein defnydd personol beunyddiol. Mae sefydlu’r Ymddiriedolaeth Carbon yng Nghymru yn fodd i hyrwyddo manteision mesurau effeithlonrwydd ynni mewn diwydiant ac yn y sector cyhoeddus. Mae Llywodraeth Cynulliad Cymru wedi rhoi lle canolog i effeithlonrwydd ynni ac arbed ynni yn ei holl bolisïau. Os gwnaiff pawb roi mwy o sylw o ddifrif i effeithlonrwydd ynni yn ein cartrefi, ein swyddfeydd, ein ffatrïoedd a’n canolfannau hamdden, gallwn wneud cyfraniad o bwys i Gymru gynaliadwy.
Raising awareness of the need for reductions in the use of energy is difficult among the more affluent, and thus the greater users of energy, particularly against a backdrop of continuing falls in the cost of supply. Turning off lights or only filling the kettle with enough water for immediate use might seem to be small measures, but they must be high on the priority list; they are not currently for many people. That is why I am pleased to note that the Treasury is soon to consult on economic instruments to improve energy efficiency, and also that there is a forthcoming UK White Paper on energy.
Mae’n anodd hybu ymwybyddiaeth o’r angen i ddefnyddio llai o ynni ymysg y rhai mwy cefnog, a’r rhai sydd felly’n defnyddio mwy o ynni, yn enwedig yng nghyd-destun y gostyngiadau parhaus yn y gost cyflenwi. Er yr ymddengys mai mesurau bach yw diffodd goleuadau neu ddim ond rhoi’r dŵr sydd ei angen ar y pryd yn y tegell, rhaid rhoi blaenoriaeth iddynt; mae llawer o bobl nad ydynt yn gwneud hynny ar hyn o bryd. Dyna pam yr wyf yn falch y bydd y Trysorlys yn ymgynghori cyn hir ar offerynnau economaidd i wella effeithlonrwydd ynni, a bydd Papur Gwyn ar ynni ar gyfer y DU cyn hir hefyd.
For those who are not as well-off, the Labour-led Assembly has already made a great impact with its home energy efficiency scheme, which aids low-income households with heating and insulation measures. It may not go far enough, as some people have intimated, but it has made a worthwhile start.
Ar gyfer y rhai nad ydynt mor gefnog, mae’r Cynulliad dan arweiniad Llafur eisoes wedi cael effaith fawr drwy ei gynllun effeithlonrwydd ynni cartref, sy’n rhoi cymorth i deuluoedd ar incwm isel o ran mesurau gwresogi ac insiwleiddio. Efallai nad yw’n mynd yn ddigon pell, fel y mae rhai wedi awgrymu, ond mae’n ddechrau buddiol.
Energy efficiency measures, highly efficient gas-fired stations—of which we already have the world’s best in Wales—and the development of the renewable energy industry, along with our personal contributions, have an important part to play in achieving our sustainable development and energy conservation ambitions.
Mae rhan bwysig i’w chwarae gan fesurau effeithlonrwydd ynni, gorsafoedd llosgi nwy tra effeithlon—a ninnau â’r rhai gorau yn y byd yng Nghymru eisoes—a datblygu’r diwydiant ynni adnewyddadwy, ynghyd â’n cyfraniadau personol, wrth gyflawni ein dyheadau o ran datblygu cynaliadwy ac arbed ynni.
Fel y gwyddoch, bûm am gyfnod yn Aelod o Dŷ’r Cyffredin yn Senedd y Deyrnas Gyfunol. Fel rhyw fath o wasanaeth cenedlaethol y gwelais i’r cyfnod hwnnw—enw parchus ar gonscripsiwn yw hynny; rhaid dweud ei fod yn talu ychydig yn well na hynny, a bod y bwyd yn well o lawer.
As you know, for a time I was a Member of the House of Commons of the United Kingdom Parliament. I saw that as some kind of national service—that is a polite name for conscription; I must say that it paid a little better than that, and that the food was much better.
Yn ystod fy nghyfnod yno, bûm yn ymwneud â dau Fesur Aelodau Preifat sydd, erbyn hyn, ar y llyfr statud. Y cyntaf oedd Deddf Cadwraeth Ynni yn y Cartref 1995 a ddaeth i’r llyfr statud drwy gymorth plaid y Democratiaid Rhyddfrydol. Y llall oedd Deddf Lleihau Traffig Ffyrdd 1997.
During my time there, I was involved in two Private Members’ Bills, which are now on the statute books. The first was the Home Energy Conservation Act 1995, which reached the statute book with the aid of the Liberal Democrat party. The other was the Road Traffic Reduction Act 1997.
Yr oedd yn beth braf eu cael i’r llyfr statud, ond yn y ddau faes hynny mae diffyg ymroddiad llywodraethau—Llywodraeth Lafur ers 1997—yn golygu mai cyfyngedig fu eu heffaith. Addawodd Llafur yn 1997 a 2001 y byddai’n gostwng allyriadau carbon diocsid o 20 y cant erbyn 2010 o’i gymharu â 1990. Fodd bynnag, fel y dywedodd Phil Williams, mae allyriadau wedi codi ers 1997 ac, yn ôl y Sefydliad Ymchwil Polisi Cyhoeddus a Cambridge Econometrics, ceir codiadau pellach erbyn 2010-15. Y methiant hwnnw sydd y tu ôl i ymgyrch y Dwsin Glân, sydd wedi ennill cryn gefnogaeth ymysg Aelodau Seneddol San Steffan.
It was good to get them onto the statute book, but in both those areas a lack of commitment from governments—a Labour Government since 1997—means that their impact has been limited. Labour promised in 1997 and in 2001 that it would reduce carbon dioxide emissions by 20 per cent by 2010 compared with 1990. However, as Phil Williams said, emissions have increased since 1997 and, according to the Institute for Public Policy Research and Cambridge Econometrics, there will be further increases by 2010-15. It is that failure which lies behind the Clean Dozen campaign, which has gained much support among Westminster Members of Parliament.
Nid oes angen imi bwysleisio manteision buddsoddi mewn cadwraeth ynni—maent yn fawr. Mae manteision i’r amgylchedd, i les ac iechyd pobl, o ran creu swyddi, ac o ran arbed arian—enillwn bob ffordd felly o weithredu yn y maes hwn. Fodd bynnag, ar hyn o bryd, mae’r ffactorau allweddol yn gweithio yn erbyn datblygu’r sector, yn enwedig, fel y clywsom, gan fod pris ynni fel cyfran o gostau busnesau a chartrefi wedi bod yn gostwng, ac yn parhau i ostwng. Mae hynny’n symud y cymhelliad, ac nid yw pobl yn meddwl ei fod werth y drafferth. Yn ychwanegol at hynny, mae rhai ysgogiadau gwrthnysig ar waith. Er enghraifft, mae treth ar werth ar ynni i’r cartref yn 5 y cant, ond y mae’n 17.5 y cant ar ddeunyddiau arbed ynni, gyda rhai eithriadau. Mae hynny’n gwrthdaro’n llwyr.
I do not need to emphasise the benefits of investing in energy preservation—they are great. There are benefits for the environment, for health and wellbeing, in terms of job creation, and in terms of saving money—we win every way therefore by taking action on this. However, at present, the key factors are working against developing the sector, especially, as we heard, because the cost of energy as a percentage of business and home costs has been decreasing, and continues to decrease. That shifts the motivation, and people do not think that it is worth the effort. Moreover, there are some perverse incentives at work. For example, value added tax on home energy is 5 per cent, but it is 17.5 per cent on energy saving materials, with some exceptions. That is totally conflicting.
Mae’r eithriadau presennol—bu consesiynau—yn gweithio yn erbyn pobl ar incwm isel a phobl sydd yn byw mewn hen dai. Dim ond ar waith sydd yn cael ei wneud gan gontractwyr y gellir cael gostyngiad ar dreth ar werth—nid yw ar gael ar eich gwaith eich hun. Cywiro hynny yw un o argymhellion ymgyrch y Dwsin Glân. Mae’r argymhellion eraill hefyd yn synhwyrol ac yn hawdd eu gweithredu: ad-daliad treth stamp os caiff gwelliannau arbed ynni eu gwneud o fewn chwe mis ar ôl prynu tŷ; gostyngiad yn y dreth gyngor i gartrefi am wella effeithlonrwydd; lwfans treth yn erbyn elw i landlordiaid am gost deunyddiau arbed ynni, ac yn y blaen. Mae cyfres o argymhellion ymarferol, felly, a fyddai’n gwneud cryn dipyn i gymell gweithredu yn y maes.
The current exceptions—there have been concessions—work against people on a low income and those who live in old houses. A discount on value added tax is only available on work that is done by contractors—it is not available on do-it-yourself work. Correcting that is one of the Clean Dozen campaign’s recommendations. The other recommendations are also sensible and easily implemented: a rebate on stamp duty if energy improvements are made within six months of buying a house; council tax discounts for households that improve energy efficiency; a tax allowance against profit for landlords on the cost of energy saving materials, and so on. There is a series of practical recommendations, therefore, that would do much to motivate action on this.
Mae sawl Aelod Seneddol yn cefnogi ymgyrch y Dwsin Glân. Mae’r Democratiaid Rhyddfrydol, yn arbennig, wedi bod ar flaen y gad. Fodd bynnag, mae’r Democratiaid Rhyddfrydol yn y Cynulliad yn ei wrthwynebu. Dyma enghraifft arall o feddwl deublyg y Democratiaid Rhyddfrydol. Enghraifft arall yw’r ffaith eu bod yn cefnogi ffermydd gwynt yn gryf, yn arbennig os ydynt ar y môr, ond ddim, mae’n debyg, os ydynt i’w gweld o Borthcawl; maent yn eu gwrthwynebu wedyn. Mae’n iawn i’w gweld o’r Rhyl, neu o Landudno, ond nid o Borthcawl, ac mae Peter Black, o bawb, yn gwrthwynebu fferm wynt ragorol yn y môr oherwydd ei bod i’w gweld o Borthcawl.
Many Members of Parliament support the Clean Dozen campaign. The Liberal Democrats, especially, have been at the forefront. However, the Liberal Democrats in the Assembly oppose it. This is another example of the Liberal Democrats’ double thinking. Another example is that they support windfarms strongly, especially if they are offshore, but not, it would seem, if they are visible from Porthcawl; they oppose them then. It is fine if they are visible from Rhyl, or from Llandudno, but not from Porthcawl, and Peter Black, of all people, opposes an excellent offshore windfarm because it is visible from Porthcawl.
Peter Black a gododd—
Peter Black rose—
Ni dderbyniaf eich ymyriad, Peter. Mae Llafur, o leiaf, yn gyson. Mae’n gwrthwynebu’r mesurau hyn yn San Steffan ac yng Nghaerdydd—mae’n ufudd i orchmynion Gordon Brown, fel ar fformiwla Barnett. Nid oes dim yn rhyfedd yn hynny. Dewch ymlaen, Peter, gadewch i ni glywed beth sydd gennych i’w ddweud.
I will not accept your intervention, Peter. Labour, at least, is consistent. It opposes the measures in Westminster and in Cardiff—it obeys Gordon Brown’s orders, as on the Barnett formula. There is nothing strange in that. Come on then, Peter, let us hear what you have to say.
Your comments on Porthcawl interest me, Cynog—I had not realised that it had slipped into Mid and West Wales. It is important that we have windfarms, but we must ensure that the sites are in the right place. There are planning issues to consider, and each case must be taken on its own merit. Are you saying that, in future, local authorities—or the Assembly for that matter—should have no discretion in terms of determining planning matters?
Ymddiddoraf yn eich sylwadau am Borthcawl, Cynog—nid oeddwn wedi sylweddoli ei fod wedi llithro i Ganolbarth a Gorllewin Cymru. Mae’n bwysig inni gael ffermydd gwynt, ond rhaid inni sicrhau bod y safleoedd yn y mannau iawn. Mae materion cynllunio i’w hystyried, a rhaid ymdrin â phob achos yn ôl ei rinweddau. A ydych yn dweud na ddylai awdurdodau lleol—neu’r Cynulliad o ran hynny—fod â rhyddid, yn y dyfodol, i benderfynu ar faterion cynllunio?
Byddai’n well pe na baech wedi ymyrryd, Peter. Yr ymadrodd cyfarwydd i ddisgrifio’ch sefyllfa yw, ‘not in my back yard’. Yr ydych yn ‘NIMBY’ clasurol, Mr Black.
It would have been better had you not intervened. Peter. The familiar phrase to describe your situation is, ‘not in my back yard’. You are a classic NIMBY, Mr Black.
A oes gair arall yn dod i’ch meddwl—gair ysgrythurol—sef, ‘rhagrithiwr’?
Does not another word come to mind—a scriptural word—namely, ‘hypocrite’?
Mae hwnnw’n air cryf ofnadwy. Mae’n well gennyf y gair ‘NIMBY’, sydd ychydig yn fwy sarhaus na ‘rhagrithiwr’. Mae llai o urddas yn perthyn iddo nag i’r gair ‘rhagrithiwr’.
That is a terribly strong word. I prefer the word ‘NIMBY’, which is somewhat more insulting than ‘hypocrite’. It has less dignity than the word ‘hypocrite’.
Os nad yw Llafur na’r Democratiaid Rhyddfrydol yn fodlon cefnogi’r cynnig hwn, yr un yw’r neges—nid ydynt o ddifrif ynglŷn â’r amgylchedd, ynglŷn ag iechyd a lles pobl ar incwm isel, nac ynglŷn â thaclo tlodi. Sylwer, bawb.
If Labour and the Liberal Democrats are not willing to support this motion, the message is the same—they are not serious about the environment, about the health and wellbeing of people on low income, nor about tackling poverty. Take note, everyone.
I am driven by outcomes and am impatient to create a green, clean Wales, in which our best environmental practices are an example to the world. As part of that desire, Cynog, Phil, other Members, and I, created a cross-party group in the early days—the National Assembly sustainable energy group—to promote sustainable energy. You are all invited to our meeting on the marine economy at 6 p.m. tonight in conference rooms A and B. I therefore welcome this debate on this vital issue about our future and the future of our children. The National Farmers’ Union, a leading organisation in Wales, has said that climate change is the biggest challenge that we face today. Many people will also be aware of the global impact of climate change. It is estimated that by 2050, over 100 million people a year will be the victims of global warming-related disasters, such as floods, droughts, and windstorms, especially if the world’s industrial countries do not take a significant lead in reducing their fossil fuel emissions.
Caf fy nghymell gan ganlyniadau ac yr wyf yn dyheu am greu Cymru lân, wyrdd, lle y mae ein harferion amgylcheddol gorau’n esiampl i’r byd. Fel rhan o’r awydd hwnnw, gwnaeth Cynog, Phil, Aelodau eraill, a minnau, greu grŵp trawsbleidiol yn y dyddiau cynnar—grŵp ynni cynaliadwy’r Cynulliad Cenedlaethol—i hyrwyddo ynni cynaliadwy. Mae gwahoddiad i bob un ohonoch ddod i’n cyfarfod ar yr economi forol am 6 p.m. heno yn ystafelloedd cynadledda A a B. Gan hynny, yr wyf yn croesawu’r ddadl hon ar y mater hollbwysig hwn am ein dyfodol ni a dyfodol ein plant. Mae Undeb Cenedlaethol y Ffermwyr, corff blaenllaw yng Nghymru, wedi dweud mai’r newid yn yr hinsawdd yw’r her fwyaf a wynebwn heddiw. Bydd llawer o bobl yn ymwybodol hefyd o effaith fyd-eang y newid yn yr hinsawdd. Amcangyfrifir, erbyn 2050, y bydd dros 100 miliwn o bobl y flwyddyn yn dioddef oherwydd trychinebau sy’n gysylltiedig â’r cynhesu byd-eang, fel llifogydd, sychder, a stormydd gwynt, yn enwedig os nad yw gwledydd diwydiannol y byd yn rhoi arweiniad pwysig drwy leihau eu gollyngiadau tanwydd ffosil.
As part of this partnership Government, I am convinced that we are taking the lead in moving this agenda forward. The acid test will be when the Minister responds to the renewable energy consultation paper, which has been put forward by the Economic Development Committee. That is an excellent report, and I commend the way in which it has been put together and presented. I draw the Minister’s attention to the challenges in that paper, which are explicit and bullet-pointed in the executive summary. They are: streamlining the planning process; facilitating embedded generation; removing the current penalty applied to intermittent sources of electricity in the wholesale market; and providing support for the development of local niches and industries. Plaid Cymru has yet to mention these important issues. On the first bullet point—the challenge of the planning process—the Minister should find out what progress has been made on technical advice note 8. We established a group to examine TAN 8 a long time ago, and many Members will know that that will be the guideline for the implementation of renewable energy.
Fel rhan o’r Llywodraeth bartneriaeth hon, yr wyf yn argyhoeddedig ein bod yn arwain o ran hyrwyddo’r agenda hon. Y maen prawf fydd ymateb y Gweinidog i’r papur ymgynghori ar ynni adnewyddadwy, a gyflwynwyd gan y Pwyllgor Datblygu Economaidd. Mae hwnnw’n adroddiad rhagorol, a chymeradwyaf y dull o’i baratoi a’i gyflwyno. Tynnaf sylw’r Gweinidog at yr heriau yn y papur hwnnw, sy’n eglur ac wedi’u nodi â phwyntiau bwled yn y crynodeb gweithredol. Y rhain yw: symleiddio’r broses gynllunio; hybu defnyddio cynhyrchwyr dosbarthu lleol; diddymu’r gosb a roddir ar hyn o bryd ar ffynonellau trydan ysbeidiol yn y farchnad gyfanwerthu; a darparu cymorth i ddatblygu marchnadoedd arbenigol a diwydiannau lleol. Nid yw Plaid Cymru wedi sôn am y materion pwysig hyn eto. Ynghylch y pwynt bwled cyntaf—her y broses gynllunio—dylai’r Gweinidog ddarganfod pa gynnydd a wnaed ar nodyn cyngor technegol 8. Gwnaethom sefydlu grŵp i archwilio nodyn cyngor technegol 8 amser maith yn ôl, a gŵyr llawer o Aelodau mai hwnnw fydd y canllaw ar gyfer gweithredu ynni adnewyddadwy.
There are other challenges beyond this Plaid Cymru motion. We need to establish exemplars throughout Wales. That is being done. I commend the Powys Energy Agency on its efforts to promote local education schemes so that people see the true benefits of renewable energy. There has been a mistake in the way that renewable energy was implemented. One reason that there were always local difficulties was that companies did not take enough time to examine their impact on the communities where they were building turbines, power stations, or whatever.
Mae heriau eraill y tu hwnt i’r cynnig hwn gan Blaid Cymru. Rhaid inni sefydlu enghreifftiau da ledled Cymru. Gwneir hynny. Canmolaf Asiantaeth Ynni Powys ar ei hymdrechion i hybu cynlluniau addysg lleol fel bod pobl yn gweld gwir fanteision ynni adnewyddadwy. Bu camgymeriad yn y dull o weithredu ynni adnewyddadwy. Un rheswm dros yr anawsterau lleol a gafwyd bob amser oedd nad oedd cwmnïau’n cymryd digon o amser i archwilio eu heffaith ar y cymunedau lle’r oeddent yn adeiladu tyrbinau, gorsafoedd trydan, neu beth bynnag.
Cynog Dafis a gododd—
Cynog Dafis rose—
I will finish this point about exemplars before taking an intervention.
Gorffennaf y pwynt hwn am enghreifftiau da cyn derbyn ymyriad.
I also urge people to use our opportunity in the Assembly to become an exemplar of the use of green energy. Furthermore, when we get our new Chamber, we must ensure that its energy production comes from renewable sources.
Yr wyf hefyd yn annog pobl i achub ar y cyfle sydd gennym yn y Cynulliad i fod yn enghraifft dda o ran defnyddio ynni gwyrdd. Ymhellach i hynny, pan gawn ein Siambr newydd, rhaid inni sicrhau bod yr ynni a gynhyrchir ar ei gyfer yn dod o ffynonellau adnewyddadwy.
Mae Mick yn gwneud araith gadarnhaol a defnyddiol, ac fe’i llongyfarchaf ar hynny. Soniodd am yr anawsterau lleol sydd bob amser yn codi pan grybwyllir cynllun ynni adnewyddadwy. Nid wyf yn siŵr ei fod yn iawn ynglŷn â hynny. Dengys pob achos lle y cafodd y farn gyhoeddus ei mesur mewn ardaloedd, er enghraifft, lle ceir ffermydd gwynt, fod mwyafrif y boblogaeth yn eu cefnogi, a bod y gyfran sy’n eu cefnogi yn cynyddu wedi i’r fferm wynt gael ei rhoi yn ei lle.
Mick is making a positive and useful speech, and I congratulate him on that. He mentioned the local difficulties that always arise when a renewable energy scheme is mentioned. I am not sure that he is right about that. All the cases where public opinion has been measured in areas, for example, where there are windfarms, have shown that the majority of people support them, and that the percentage that supports them increases once the windfarm has been put in place.
That was a valuable comment. At first, companies did not do enough to encourage people to understand climate change and why it was necessary to have sources of renewable energy.
Yr oedd hwnnw’n sylw gwerthfawr. Ar y dechrau, ni wnaeth y cwmnïau ddigon i annog pobl i ddeall y newid yn yr hinsawdd a pham yr oedd angen cael ffynonellau ynni adnewyddadwy.
I will briefly deal with the other issues that you raised. The partnership Government is tackling fuel poverty. The new home energy efficiency scheme introduced in November 2000 is increasing the availability of grants. I do not accept your point. The Welsh Liberal Democrats will vote for the Government amendment because it is taking steps to increase the amount of renewable energy in Wales. The home energy efficiency scheme is successfully tackling fuel poverty as well as promoting domestic energy efficiency. Finally, we are, of course, in favour of the Clean Dozen campaign, but we must wait for the White Paper. One of the reasons for having a Government is to consult and to consider other people’s opinion. I appreciate the proposer’s views on this matter; they are the same as mine. However, the process is in place and the White Paper is forthcoming.
Ymdriniaf yn fyr â’r materion eraill a godwyd gennych. Mae’r Llywodraeth bartneriaeth yn mynd i’r afael â thlodi tanwydd. Mae’r cynllun effeithlonrwydd ynni cartref newydd a gyflwynwyd yn Nhachwedd 2000 yn darparu rhagor o grantiau. Nid wyf yn derbyn y pwynt a wnaethoch. Bydd Democratiaid Rhyddfrydol Cymru’n pleidleisio o blaid gwelliant y Llywodraeth am ei bod yn cymryd camau i gynyddu ynni adnewyddadwy yng Nghymru. Mae’r cynllun effeithlonrwydd ynni cartref yn llwyddo i fynd i’r afael â thlodi tanwydd yn ogystal â hyrwyddo effeithlonrwydd ynni yn y cartref. Yn olaf, yr ydym o blaid ymgyrch y Dwsin Glân, wrth gwrs, ond rhaid inni ddisgwyl am y Papur Gwyn. Un o’r rhesymau dros gael Llywodraeth yw ymgynghori ac ystyried barn pobl eraill. Gwerthfawrogaf farn y cynigydd am y mater hwn; yr un yw fy marn innau. Fodd bynnag, mae’r broses ar waith ac mae’r Papur Gwyn ar ei ffordd.
We are aware of the link between carbon dioxide emissions and global warming. No doubt, Labour considered that when, in its manifestos of 1997 and 2001, it pledged a 20 per cent reduction in carbon dioxide emissions by 2010. Those figures were based on the 1990 levels. Such a reduction would be welcomed by residents of Ruthin—where I live—who have suffered badly over recent years as a result of flooding. No doubt, residents of many other areas would welcome it as well. However, carbon dioxide levels have increased since Labour came to power and the Institute for Public Policy Research and Cambridge Econometrics predict further increases by 2010 and 2015.
Yr ydym yn ymwybodol o’r cysylltiad rhwng gollyngiadau carbon deuocsid a’r cynhesu byd-eang. Mae’n sicr bod Llafur wedi ystyried hynny pan addawodd, yn ei maniffestos yn 1997 a 2001, y byddai gostyngiad o 20 y cant mewn gollyngiadau carbon deuocsid erbyn 2010. Yr oedd y ffigurau hynny’n seiliedig ar lefelau 1990. Byddai gostyngiad o’r fath yn cael ei groesawu gan drigolion Rhuthun—lle’r wyf yn byw—sydd wedi dioddef yn fawr dros y blynyddoedd diwethaf o ganlyniad i lifogydd. Mae’n siŵr y byddai trigolion llawer o ardaloedd eraill yn ei groesawu hefyd. Er hynny, mae’r lefelau o garbon deuocsid wedi codi ers i Lafur ddod i rym ac mae’r Sefydliad Ymchwil Polisi Cyhoeddus a Cambridge Econometrics yn proffwydo mwy o gynnydd erbyn 2010 a 2015.
Cynog and Mick referred to the Clean Dozen and its campaign for changes in VAT, which is the preserve of Westminster. However, we could include some of those suggestions in our home energy efficiency scheme. Perhaps we should consider increasing the grant for householders who install advanced technology such as domestic combined heat and power units and heat pumps. That would have two advantages; it would stimulate the market for the technology and it would increase incentive, which would almost certainly bring down the price of the new technology and thus further increase take up. It would also encourage investment in developing existing technology and creating new technology within that sector. We must be honest with ourselves. We know about the need to reduce the amount of energy that we use, but how much are we taking that knowledge to heart? How much less are we using the tumble-dryer and putting on lights? The emphasis of the home energy efficiency scheme must be on conserving energy. Perhaps the review of the scheme next year should lead to the inclusion of grants for solar power and the inclusion of alternative methods of heating to gas and electricity.
Cyfeiriodd Cynog a Mick at y Dwsin Glân a’i ymgyrch dros newidiadau mewn TAW, sy’n faes i San Steffan. Serch hynny, gallem gynnwys rhai o’r awgrymiadau hynny yn ein cynllun effeithlonrwydd ynni cartref. Efallai y dylem ystyried rhoi mwy o grant i ddeiliaid sy’n gosod uwch-dechnoleg fel unedau gwres a phŵer cyfunol domestig a phympiau gwres. Byddai dwy fantais i hynny; byddai’n ysgogi’r farchnad ar gyfer y dechnoleg honno a byddai’n rhoi mwy o anogaeth, a fyddai bron yn sicr o ostwng pris y dechnoleg newydd, a thrwy hynny gynyddu’r defnydd ohoni ymhellach. Byddai hefyd yn hyrwyddo buddsoddi mewn datblygu’r dechnoleg bresennol ac mewn creu technoleg newydd yn y sector hwnnw. Rhaid inni fod yn onest â ni ein hunain. Gwyddom am yr angen inni ddefnyddio llai o ynni, ond i ba raddau yr ydym yn ystyried y wybodaeth honno o ddifrif? I ba raddau yr ydym yn defnyddio llai ar y peiriant sychu dillad a goleuadau? Rhaid i’r cynllun effeithlonrwydd ynni cartref roi pwyslais ar arbed ynni. Efallai y dylai’r adolygiad o’r cynllun y flwyddyn nesaf arwain at gynnwys grantiau ar gyfer ynni’r haul a chynnwys dulliau o wresogi heblaw nwy a thrydan.
We must also consider surveying whole areas. In his introduction, Phil referred to a home that had benefited from a survey. Most areas would benefit from a combined survey of all their heating and energy needs and the combination of all the grants to meet those needs. That would ensure that not only those who qualify for grants are able to insulate or heat their homes, but also that those who have needs that are not met by one of those specific grants can be helped to access the correct source, or that grants can be made available to all areas to address all the problems shown in that survey. It is interesting to note that, according to the Government, it is well on target to achieving its target of 38,000 people benefiting from the home energy efficiency scheme by March 2004. However, as the scheme exists at the moment, those who most need to benefit from the heat scheme do not, because the benefit system works against them. That point must definitely be taken up with the Westminster Government if we are really to lift those who most need it out of fuel poverty.
Rhaid inni hefyd ystyried arolygu ardaloedd cyfan. Yn ei ragymadrodd, cyfeiriodd Phil at gartref a oedd wedi cael budd o arolwg. Byddai’r rhan fwyaf o ardaloedd ar eu hennill o gael arolwg cyfunol o’u holl anghenion gwresogi ac ynni a chyfuno’r holl grantiau i ddiwallu’r anghenion hynny. Byddai hynny’n sicrhau nad y rhai sy’n gymwys i dderbyn grantiau yw’r unig rai sy’n gallu insiwleiddio neu wresogi eu cartrefi, ac y bydd modd hefyd helpu’r rhai sydd ag anghenion nas diwellir gan un o’r grantiau penodol hynny i gael at y ffynhonnell gywir, neu y gellir darparu grantiau ar gyfer pob ardal i ymdrin â’r holl broblemau a ddangosir yn yr arolwg hwnnw. Diddorol yw nodi, yn ôl y Llywodraeth, ei bod ymhell ar y ffordd i gyrraedd ei tharged o sicrhau bod 38,000 o bobl yn cael budd o’r cynllun effeithlonrwydd ynni cartref erbyn Mawrth 2004. Fodd bynnag, fel y mae’r cynllun ar hyn o bryd, nid yw’r rhai y mae arnynt ei angen fwyaf yn elwa ar y cynllun gwresogi, am fod y system budd-daliadau’n gweithio yn eu herbyn. Rhaid codi’r pwynt hwnnw gyda Llywodraeth San Steffan os ydym am godi’r rhai y mae arnynt ei angen fwyaf o dlodi tanwydd.
Help the Aged published statistics recently that suggested that 25,000 people died last year as a result of fuel poverty—25,000 preventable deaths. That is a truly shocking statistic, and one which all of us should commit ourselves to do something about. Nevertheless, there is no doubt that the situation has been improving steadily since 1991. One of the major reasons for that is that the cost of domestic fuel has fallen so dramatically. As my colleague William Graham pointed out, the real decreases in the cost of fuel have been between 5 and 8 per cent. If we take steps to increase these costs, we will also increase the number of people living in fuel poverty, and probably the number of preventable deaths also. That is why I was concerned by what Val Lloyd said about using measures to reflect the environmental cost of domestic fuel, and some of Cynog’s points. I want Labour Ministers to assure us that they will not increase taxes on fuel because it would have a detrimental effect on vulnerable people living in this country. Of course we must do more to improve home energy efficiency, but it must be with policies of carrots not sticks.
Cyhoeddwyd ystadegau’n ddiweddar gan Help the Aged sy’n awgrymu bod 25,000 o bobl wedi marw y llynedd oherwydd tlodi tanwydd—25,000 o farwolaethau y gallesid eu hatal. Ystadegyn gwirioneddol frawychus yw hwnnw, ac mae’n un y dylem oll ymrwymo i wneud rhywbeth yn ei gylch. Er hynny, nid oes dwywaith nad yw’r sefyllfa wedi gwella’n gyson ers 1991. Un o’r prif resymau am hynny yw’r gostyngiad sylweddol yng nghost tanwyddau domestig. Fel y nododd fy nghyd-Aelod, William Graham, bu gostyngiad gwirioneddol yng nghost tanwydd rhwng 5 ac 8 y cant. Os cymerwn gamau i gynyddu’r costau hynny, byddwn hefyd yn cynyddu nifer y bobl sy’n byw mewn tlodi tanwydd, a nifer y marwolaethau y gellir eu hatal hefyd, yn ôl pob tebyg. Dyna pam yr oedd yr hyn a ddywedodd Val Lloyd am ddefnyddio mesurau i adlewyrchu cost amgylcheddol tanwydd domestig, a rhai o’r pwyntiau a wnaeth Cynog, yn peri pryder i mi. Yr wyf am i Weinidogion Llafur ein sicrhau na fyddant yn codi’r trethi ar danwydd oherwydd câi hynny effaith niweidiol ar bobl sy’n agored i niwed sy’n byw yn y wlad hon. Rhaid inni wneud rhagor i wella effeithlonrwydd ynni cartref, wrth gwrs, ond rhaid gwneud hynny â pholisïau sy’n cynnig abwyd ac nid cosb.
I have been concerned about some of the comments that I have read about landlords and houses in multiple occupation. I used to rent out a room in a house, and I resented the amount of bureaucracy that built up over the years. If landlords have to deal with too much bureaucracy, they will stop renting rooms out, which will increase the number of people without acceptable accommodation.
Mae rhai o’r sylwadau a ddarllenais am landlordiaid a thai amlfeddiant wedi peri pryder i mi. Arferwn osod ystafell ar rent mewn tŷ, ac yr oedd y cynnydd mewn biwrocratiaeth dros y blynyddoedd yn dân ar fy nghroen. Os oes rhaid i landlordiaid ddelio â gormod o fiwrocratiaeth, byddant yn rhoi’r gorau i osod ystafelloedd, a bydd hynny’n cynyddu’r nifer o bobl sydd heb lety derbyniol.
A home energy policy is intrinsically linked to clean energy and environmental policies. We have heard much about windfarms. I am open-minded about the use of windfarms but I have heard that they generate little electricity compared to their visual impact on the landscape. Visual impact is a fair concern, although I accept Cynog’s point that the Liberal Democrats should raise this issue in relation to the whole of Wales and not just in relation to their constituencies.
Mae cysylltiad anorfod rhwng polisi ynni cartref a pholisïau amgylcheddol ac ynni glân. Clywsom lawer am ffermydd gwynt. Mae gennyf feddwl agored ynghylch y defnydd o ffermydd gwynt ond clywais mai ychydig o drydan a gynhyrchant o’u cymharu â’u heffaith weledol ar y tirlun. Mae effaith weledol yn destun pryder rhesymol, er fy mod yn derbyn y pwynt a wnaeth Cynog y dylai’r Democratiaid Rhyddfrydol godi’r mater hwn mewn cysylltiad â Chymru gyfan ac nid mewn cysylltiad â’u hetholaethau hwy’n unig.
We have not heard much about solar energy, which we could do more to develop. The latest solar technology allows homes to be heated all year round without necessarily any sunlight. I recently spoke to some people who have just returned from Nepal, a country with a poor infrastructure but which is successfully and widely using solar panels in some of the more outlying towns. It is affordable and effective technology, but unfortunately somewhat expensive in developed countries at present. If measures were to be implemented to encourage greater use of solar technology, I would support them.
Ni chlywsom gymaint am ynni’r haul, y gallem wneud rhagor i’w ddatblygu. Mae’r dechnoleg ynni’r haul ddiweddaraf yn cynnig modd i wresogi cartrefi drwy gydol y flwyddyn heb yr angen am olau’r haul. Siaredais yn ddiweddar â rhai sydd newydd ddychwelyd o Nepal, gwlad a chanddi seilwaith gwael ond sy’n defnyddio paneli ynni’r haul yn llwyddiannus ac yn helaeth yn rhai o’r trefi mwy diarffordd. Mae’n dechnoleg fforddiadwy ac effeithiol, ond mae’n eithaf drud yn y gwledydd datblygedig ar hyn o bryd, gwaetha’r modd. Pe cymerid camau i annog mwy o ddefnydd o dechnoleg ynni’r haul, byddwn yn eu cefnogi.
We should also not discount the possible contribution that nuclear energy can make to a green and clean energy generation process because it does not generate the carbon emissions that cause global warming. However, I have two major concerns about nuclear energy, which I believe would be shared by any sensible person. My first concern is on the storage of waste after the process has finished, and my second concern is on the impact a terrorist attack could have. I shall be visiting a nuclear power station next week and will put these concerns to the authorities there. However, nuclear energy should not be dismissed just because it does not fit in with the trendy view on what clean energy should be.
Ni ddylem ddiystyru ychwaith y cyfraniad y gall ynni niwclear ei wneud i broses cynhyrchu ynni gwyrdd a glân oherwydd nid yw’n cynhyrchu’r gollyngiadau carbon sy’n achosi’r cynhesu byd-eang. Er hynny, mae gennyf ddau bryder mawr ynghylch ynni niwclear, y credaf y byddai unrhyw un synhwyrol yn eu rhannu. Mae’r pryder cyntaf sydd gennyf yn ymwneud â storio gwastraff wedi i’r broses orffen, ac mae’r ail yn ymwneud ag effaith bosibl ymosodiad terfysgol. Byddaf yn ymweld â gorsaf drydan niwclear yr wythnos nesaf a byddaf yn codi’r pryderon hyn gyda’r rhai sydd mewn awdurdod yno. Fodd bynnag, ni ddylid diystyru ynni niwclear dim ond am nad yw’n gweddu i’r farn ffasiynol am yr hyn y dylai ynni glân fod.
I therefore congratulate Plaid Cymru on bringing this subject forward for discussion. It is not a headline-grabbing subject, but it should be because it affects us all. I hope that Plaid Cymru in turn would not support measures to increase the cost of fuel, particularly for vulnerable people. I am sure that all of us will support any measures that encourage greater use of clean environmental technology.
Felly llongyfarchaf Blaid Cymru ar gyflwyno’r pwnc hwn i’w drafod. Nid yw’n bwnc sy’n bachu’r penawdau, ond dylai fod oherwydd mae’n effeithio arnom i gyd. Gobeithiaf na fyddai Plaid Cymru yn ei thro’n cefnogi mesurau i godi cost tanwydd, yn enwedig ar gyfer pobl sy’n agored i niwed. Yr wyf yn sicr y bydd pob un ohonom yn cefnogi unrhyw fesurau sy’n annog mwy o ddefnydd o dechnoleg amgylcheddol lân.
Andrew Davies The Minister for Economic Development spoken in English p. 81
Andrew Davies Y Gweinidog dros Ddatblygu Economaidd siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 81
I join David in thanking Phil Williams and Plaid Cymru for raising this issue for debate. It is a crucial issue and I wish more Members were present to take part. I will deal with this important subject in two parts: first from the economic development perspective, and secondly in relation to energy efficiency in the domestic sector.
Ymunaf â David i ddiolch i Phil Williams a Phlaid Cymru am godi’r mater hwn i’w drafod. Mae’n fater hollbwysig a byddai’n dda gennyf pe byddai mwy o Aelodau’n bresennol i gymryd rhan. Ymdriniaf â’r pwnc pwysig hwn mewn dwy ran: yn gyntaf o safbwynt datblygu economaidd, ac yn ail mewn cysylltiad ag effeithlonrwydd ynni yn y sector domestig.
Dealing with global warming is one of the biggest challenges the world faces. Reducing the emission of greenhouse gases has a strong economic, humanitarian and moral imperative, and is a key feature of future energy policy. The action must be worldwide, with each country playing its part. Wales’s geography, climate and manufacturing base, combined with the Assembly’s sustainable development duty, provide us with the opportunity to play a full part. As such, the Assembly Government has taken the opportunity to take part in that process and feed into the emerging UK Government energy White Paper. This is a consequence of the major public debate on the development of energy policy in the UK, and I am confident that clean energy generation will be at its heart. I look forward to formally receiving the Economic Development Committee’s review of renewable energy in Wales. The Committee’s report and the UK Government’s White Paper on energy will help inform the Assembly Government’s energy policy and direction, and will also help to establish Wales as a global showcase in terms of clean energy development.
Delio â’r cynhesu byd-eang yw un o’r heriau mwyaf sy’n wynebu’r byd. Mae lleihau gollyngiadau o nwyon tŷ gwydr yn rheidrwydd economaidd, dyngarol a moesol pendant, ac mae’n agwedd allweddol ar bolisi ynni ar gyfer y dyfodol. Rhaid i’r camau a gymerir fod yn rhai byd-eang, gyda phob gwlad yn chwarae ei rhan. Mae daearyddiaeth, hinsawdd a sylfaen gweithgynhyrchu Cymru, ynghyd â dyletswydd y Cynulliad o ran datblygu cynaliadwy, yn rhoi cyfle inni chwarae rhan lawn. Oherwydd hynny, mae Llywodraeth y Cynulliad wedi achub ar y cyfle i gymryd rhan yn y broses honno a phorthi’r Papur Gwyn y mae Llywodraeth y DU yn ei lunio ar ynni. Mae hyn yn ganlyniad i’r ddadl gyhoeddus fawr ar ddatblygu polisi ynni yn y DU, ac yr wyf yn ffyddiog y bydd cynhyrchu ynni glân yn ganolog iddo. Edrychaf ymlaen at dderbyn yn ffurfiol adolygiad y Pwyllgor Datblygu Economaidd o ynni adnewyddadwy yng Nghymru. Bydd adroddiad y Pwyllgor a Phapur Gwyn Llywodraeth y DU ar ynni yn helpu i lywio polisi a chyfeiriad Llywodraeth y Cynulliad ar ynni, a bydd hefyd yn helpu i sefydlu Cymru’n batrwm i’r byd o ran datblygu ynni glân.
I have put on record my thoughts about energy from a UK-wide perspective on several occasions and, in doing so, have identified the key issues and challenges for Wales. In addition, the First Minister and myself recently hosted a Welsh energy summit to consider the suitable options for our future energy needs in Wales, and that will inform our ongoing discussions with the UK Government. It is clear that security of supply and competitiveness must be considered carefully as part of the drive towards using cleaner technologies.
Yr wyf wedi dweud fy marn ar goedd am ynni yng nghyd-destun y DU gyfan sawl gwaith ac, wrth wneud hynny, wedi nodi’r materion allweddol a’r heriau i Gymru. Yn ogystal â hynny, gwnaeth y Prif Weinidog a minnau lywyddu mewn uwchgynhadledd ynni Gymreig yn ddiweddar lle yr ystyriwyd y dewisiadau sy’n addas ar gyfer ein hanghenion ynni yng Nghymru yn y dyfodol, a bydd hynny’n goleuo ein trafodaethau cyfredol â Llywodraeth y DU. Mae’n amlwg bod rhaid ystyried sicrwydd cyflenwad a gallu cystadleuol yn ofalus fel rhan o’r ymgyrch i ddefnyddio technolegau glanach.
In its commitment to making Wales a global showcase in terms of clean energy production, which includes cleaner fossil fuel technologies as well as renewables, our economic development strategy, ‘A Winning Wales’, demonstrates our commitment to balancing economic development and our environmental responsibilities. In response to Mick Bates’s comments, the Assembly Government is discussing the possibility of introducing biomass-fuelled heating to a village in mid Wales with Powys Energy Agency, and I am considering appropriate funding for that. I am confident that Wales can significantly reduce its carbon dioxide emissions. One key area on which we can focus is energy efficiency in homes, offices and factories.
Yn ei hymrwymiad i wneud Cymru’n batrwm i’r byd o ran cynhyrchu ynni glân, sy’n cynnwys technolegau tanwydd ffosil glanach yn ogystal â ffynonellau adnewyddadwy, mae ein strategaeth datblygu economaidd, ‘Cymru’n Ennill’, yn dangos ein hymrwymiad i gydbwyso datblygu economaidd a’n cyfrifoldebau amgylcheddol. I ymateb i sylwadau Mick Bates, mae Llywodraeth y Cynulliad yn ystyried y posibilrwydd o gyflwyno gwresogi â thanwydd biomas mewn pentref yn y Canolbarth gydag Asiantaeth Ynni Powys, ac yr wyf yn ystyried cyllid priodol ar gyfer hynny. Yr wyf yn ffyddiog y gall Cymru leihau ei gollyngiadau carbon deuocsid yn sylweddol. Un maes allweddol lle y gallwn ganolbwyntio yw effeithlonrwydd ynni mewn cartrefi, swyddfeydd a ffatrïoedd.
We firmly believe that establishing the Carbon Trust in Wales will help the Welsh Assembly Government to raise the profile of energy efficiency. The trust’s aims include helping to make businesses aware of the need for energy efficiency and helping them to understand the commercial advantages and opportunities of sound energy efficiency practice. The Carbon Trust in Wales has been working well since it was launched in April. It has undertaken significant promotion of its objectives and has laid foundations for strong working relationships, particularly with existing service providers.
Credwn yn gryf y bydd sefydlu’r Ymddiriedolaeth Carbon yng Nghymru yn helpu Llywodraeth Cynulliad Cymru i hyrwyddo delwedd effeithlonrwydd ynni. Ymhlith nodau’r ymddiriedolaeth y mae helpu busnesau i fod yn ymwybodol o’r angen am effeithlonrwydd ynni a’u helpu i ddeall y manteision a’r cyfleoedd masnachol sy’n codi o ymarfer effeithlonrwydd ynni cadarn. Bu’r Ymddiriedolaeth Carbon yng Nghymru’n gweithio’n dda ers ei lansio yn Ebrill. Mae wedi ymgymryd ag ymgyrch helaeth i hyrwyddo ei hamcanion ac wedi gosod sylfaen ar gyfer cysylltiadau gweithio cadarn, yn enwedig gyda’r darparwyr gwasanaethau presennol.
The Carbon Trust is now in the early stages of discussions with the Energy Saving Trust, the ARENA network and energy agencies on the possibility of establishing a support network for small businesses. This strategy will encourage a more cohesive approach by existing services in Wales, and will also go towards providing better support for businesses in Wales.
Bellach mae’r Ymddiriedolaeth Carbon yn dechrau trafodaethau gyda’r Ymddiriedolaeth Arbed Ynni, rhwydwaith ARENA ac asiantaethau ynni ar y posibilrwydd o sefydlu rhwydwaith cymorth i fusnesau bach. Bydd y strategaeth hon yn hybu dull gweithredu mwy cydlynol gan y gwasanaethau presennol yng Nghymru, a bydd hefyd yn cyfrannu at roi gwell cymorth i fusnesau yng Nghymru.
The sustainable business Wales action plan that I launched in October sets out what the Assembly Government, its agencies and its main partners will do to help businesses seize sustainable development opportunities. The social housing solar heating programme for registered social landlords and local authorities, which was introduced this year and is funded by the Assembly Government and the Energy Saving Trust, is intended to stimulate domestic demand for Welsh products.
Mae cynllun gweithredu busnes cynaliadwy Cymru a lansiais ym mis Hydref yn nodi’r hyn y bydd Llywodraeth y Cynulliad, ei hasiantaethau a’i phrif bartneriaid yn ei wneud i helpu busnesau i achub ar gyfleoedd am ddatblygu cynaliadwy. Bwriad rhaglen gwresogi ynni’r haul tai cymdeithasol i landlordiaid cymdeithasol cofrestredig ac awdurdodau lleol, a gyflwynwyd eleni ac a ariannir gan Lywodraeth y Cynulliad a’r Ymddiriedolaeth Arbed Ynni, yw ysgogi’r galw domestig am gynhyrchion o Gymru.
As part of the sustainable business Wales action plan, it is proposed that the Carbon Trust will deliver a step change on energy efficiency, carbon emission reductions, and will continue to stimulate, promote and support the commercial opportunities arising from new low-carbon technologies.
Fel rhan o gynllun gweithredu busnes cynaliadwy Cymru, cynigir y bydd yr Ymddiriedolaeth Carbon yn cyflawni newid sylweddol mewn effeithlonrwydd ynni, a lleihau gollyngiadau carbon, ac y bydd yn parhau i ysgogi, hyrwyddo a chefnogi’r cyfleoedd masnachol sy’n codi o dechnolegau carbon isel newydd.
I now turn to the domestic sector. Energy efficiency is a key element of energy policy, be it global, national or local. Whether the issue is global emissions, security of supply or fuel poverty, reducing consumption must be a key objective, as Phil rightly mentioned. For this reason, the Assembly Government has placed energy efficiency and, in particular, home energy conservation at the heart of its policies. This is particularly true when we are dealing with deprivation and one of it major consequences, fuel poverty—or, in other words, the inability to afford to heat a home adequately. As well as creating problems in terms of health and education, and having other social consequences, cold homes fly in the face of the basic right to a decent quality of life. To indicate the scale of the problem, we estimate that 20 per cent of households in Wales are affected by cold homes.
Trof yn awr at y sector domestig. Mae effeithlonrwydd ynni’n elfen allweddol mewn polisi ynni, boed yn fyd-eang, yn genedlaethol neu’n lleol. Pa un ai gollyngiadau byd-eang, sicrwydd y cyflenwad neu dlodi tanwydd sydd dan sylw, un amcan allweddol yw lleihau defnydd, fel y dywedodd Phil. Oherwydd hynny, mae Llywodraeth y Cynulliad wedi rhoi effeithlonrwydd ynni ac, yn benodol, arbed ynni yn y cartref, wrth wraidd ei pholisïau. Mae hynny’n arbennig o wir wrth drafod amddifadedd ac un o’i brif ganlyniadau, tlodi tanwydd—neu, mewn geiriau eraill, anallu i fforddio gwresogi cartref yn ddigonol. Yn ogystal â chreu problemau o ran iechyd ac addysg, a chanlyniadau cymdeithasol eraill, mae cartrefi oer yn groes i’r hawl sylfaenol i ansawdd bywyd gweddus. Er mwyn dangos maint y broblem, amcangyfrifwn fod cartrefi oer yn effeithio ar 20 y cant o deuluoedd yng Nghymru.
Last month, the Assembly Government issued the ‘Warm Homes and Energy Conservation Act 2000—A Fuel Poverty Commitment for Wales’ consultation document, which sets out the Assembly’s plans for tackling the problem. The document sets clear targets to reach all vulnerable households—the elderly, the sick, the disabled and families with young children—by 2010 and other fuel-poor households such as single occupiers and families without children by 2018. I recommend that all Members consider the consultation document and respond to it.
Y mis diwethaf, cyhoeddodd Llywodraeth y Cynulliad y ddogfen ymgynghori ‘Deddf Cartrefi Cynnes ac Arbed Ynni 2000—Ymrwymiad Tlodi Tanwydd i Gymru’, sy’n nodi cynlluniau’r Cynulliad ar gyfer ymladd y broblem hon. Mae’r ddogfen yn gosod targedau eglur i gyrraedd pob teulu sy’n agored i niwed—yr henoed, y rhai gwael eu hiechyd, yr anabl a theuluoedd sydd â phlant—erbyn 2010 a theuluoedd eraill sydd mewn tlodi tanwydd fel deiliaid sengl a theuluoedd heb blant erbyn 2018. Yr wyf yn argymell y dylai pob Aelod ystyried y ddogfen ymgynghori ac ymateb iddi.
We are faced with a problem in Wales which, while not unique, is perhaps more acute than elsewhere in the UK. We have an old housing stock—much of it pre-1919—and it is underperforming in terms of what households have a right to expect from housing in the twenty-first century. We have recognised that and have started to take action, as evidenced by our policies, notably the home energy efficiency scheme and its direct intervention to assist low income households with heating and insulation. In addition, we have developed the Welsh housing quality standard with its aspiration for Welsh housing, particularly in the social sector, which houses 50 per cent of fuel-poor households.
Er nad yw’r broblem a wynebwn yng Nghymru’n un unigryw, mae’n bosibl ei bod yn fwy difrifol nag mewn mannau eraill yn y DU. Mae gennym hen stoc dai—codwyd llawer ohoni cyn 1919—ac mae’n tanberfformio o ran yr hyn y mae gan deuluoedd hawl i’w ddisgwyl gan dai yn yr unfed ganrif ar hugain. Yr ydym wedi cydnabod hynny ac wedi dechrau gweithredu, fel y gwelir yn ein polisïau, yn enwedig y cynllun effeithlonrwydd ynni cartref a’i ymyriad uniongyrchol i roi cymorth i deuluoedd sydd ar incwm isel ar gyfer gwresogi ac insiwleiddio. Yn ogystal, yr ydym wedi datblygu safon ansawdd tai Cymru a’i dyhead ar gyfer tai yng Nghymru, yn enwedig yn y sector cymdeithasol, sy’n cartrefu 50 y cant o’r teuluoedd sydd mewn tlodi tanwydd.
We are providing grants to local authorities to help them carry out stock condition surveys in order to improve data and help plan for improvement, which is clearly overdue. We are also working through partnerships with energy suppliers, who are tasked with investing in energy efficiency, and bodies that manage UK Government funding schemes, such as the Energy Saving Trust, to ensure that housing in Wales benefits from maximum investment, which is much needed.
Yr ydym yn rhoi grantiau i awdurdodau lleol i’w helpu i gynnal arolygon cyflwr stoc er mwyn cael gwell data a’u helpu i gynllunio gwelliannau, sy’n hir-ddisgwyliedig, wrth gwrs. Yr ydym hefyd yn gweithio drwy bartneriaethau gyda chyflenwyr ynni, y rhoddwyd y gwaith o fuddsoddi mewn effeithlonrwydd ynni iddynt, a chyrff sy’n rheoli cynlluniau ariannu Llywodraeth y DU, fel yr Ymddiriedolaeth Arbed Ynni, i sicrhau’r buddsoddi mwyaf posibl mewn tai yng Nghymru, ac mae mawr angen hynny.
However, the right to a decent quality of home is not limited to the social sector; it is our aspiration for all housing in Wales, as contained in our national housing strategy, ‘Better Homes for People in Wales’. Deciding on how to address the condition of owner-occupied stock where owners cannot afford improvements is not easy, as it requires different approaches. The way forward may include direct intervention schemes such as the home energy efficiency scheme, the new flexibility provided to local authorities by deregulating private sector renewal powers and the awaited primary legislation introducing licensing for houses in multiple occupation and a health and safety rating system.
Er hynny, nid yw’r hawl i gartref o ansawdd gweddus yn gyfyngedig i’r sector cymdeithasol; dyna ein dyhead ar gyfer yr holl dai yng Nghymru, fel y nodir yn ein strategaeth dai genedlaethol, ‘Gwell Cartrefi i Bobl Cymru’. Nid hawdd yw penderfynu sut i ymdrin â chyflwr stoc perchen-ddeiliaid lle nad yw’r perchnogion yn gallu fforddio gwelliannau, gan fod angen dulliau gweithredu gwahanol. Efallai y bydd y ffordd ymlaen yn cynnwys cynlluniau ymyrryd uniongyrchol fel y cynllun effeithlonrwydd ynni cartref, yr hyblygrwydd newydd a roddir i awdurdodau lleol drwy ddadreoleiddio pwerau adnewyddu sector preifat a’r ddeddfwriaeth sylfaenol ddisgwyliedig a fydd yn cyflwyno trwyddedu ar gyfer tai amlfeddiant a system mesur iechyd a diogelwch.
John Marek The Deputy Presiding Officer spoken in English p. 85
John Marek Y Dirprwy Lywydd siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 85
Order. Please wind up now.
Trefn. Terfynwch yn awr, os gwelwch yn dda.
We oppose the amendments. I ask the Assembly to endorse the Government’s motion, which reflects the current position in our view. The amendments in the name of Jonathan Morgan do not add substance to the commitments that we have already outlined, and we will not support them.
Yr ydym yn gwrthwynebu’r gwelliannau. Gofynnaf i’r Cynulliad gefnogi cynnig y Llywodraeth, sy’n adlewyrchu’r sefyllfa bresennol yn ein barn ni. Nid yw’r gwelliannau yn enw Jonathan Morgan yn ychwanegu sylwedd at yr ymrwymiadau yr ydym wedi’u disgrifio eisoes, ac ni wnawn eu cefnogi.
Rhodri Glyn Thomas siaradwyd yn Gymraeg ac yn Saesneg t. 85
Rhodri Glyn Thomas spoken in Welsh and English p. 85
Gwrandewais â diddordeb ar y Gweinidog. Dywedodd ei fod yn gwrthwynebu’r holl welliannau; golyga hynny ei fod yn gwrthwynebu gwelliant y Llywodraeth yn enw Carwyn Jones. Dylwn egluro wrth y Gweinidog mai cynnig Plaid Cymru yw hwn, a bod y Llywodraeth wedi cynnig gwelliant i’r cynnig hwnnw—er na fyddwn yn dweud ei fod yn welliant o gwbl.
in Welsh I listened with interest to the Minister. He said that he opposed all the amendments; that means that he opposes the Government’s amendment in the name of Carwyn Jones. I should explain to the Minister that this is a Plaid Cymru motion, and that the Government has proposed an amendment to that motion—although I would not say that it improves the motion at all.
I listened with interest to the Minister’s speech. He used all the right terminology: he referred to global warming, the need to respond to this on a worldwide basis, and the importance of every country—including Wales, presumably—playing its part; he also mentioned the schemes and grants available, and talked about clean fossil fuels. One word that was missing from his speech was ‘strategy’. The Government does not have a strategy to respond to this issue. Government Members often refer to terms such as ‘seamless government’ and ‘joined-up thinking’ and talk of ‘the few and the many’. It all sounds good, but it is meaningless. That is also true in this case; there is no strategy. For example, the Minister referred to the home energy efficiency scheme, which we all agree is an excellent scheme. The only problem is that it will take over 100 years for that scheme to complete the job, which does not suggest that there is a tremendous amount of urgency in the Government’s response. Objective 1 is another way in which the Government could respond to this issue. Yet again, the Government has only allocated 5 per cent of the potential allocation up to the end of December 2002. There is a lack of urgency and a sense of complacency in the Government’s response.
yn Saesneg Gwrandewais gyda diddordeb ar araith y Gweinidog. Defnyddiodd y derminoleg iawn drwyddi draw: cyfeiriodd at gynhesu byd-eang, yr angen am ymateb byd-eang i hynny, ac mor bwysig ydoedd i bob gwlad—gan gynnwys Cymru, mae’n debyg—chwarae ei rhan; soniodd hefyd am y cynlluniau a’r grantiau sydd ar gael, a siaradodd am danwyddau ffosil glân. Un gair nad oedd yn ei araith oedd ‘strategaeth’. Nid yw’r Llywodraeth yn meddu ar strategaeth i ymateb i’r mater hwn. Mae Aelodau’r Llywodraeth yn cyfeirio’n aml at dermau fel ‘llywodraeth ddi-dor’ a ‘meddwl cydgysylltiedig’ ac yn sôn am ‘yr ychydig a’r lliaws’. Mae’r cwbl yn swnio’n dda, ond mae’n ddiystyr. Mae hynny’n wir hefyd yn yr achos hwn; nid oes strategaeth. Er enghraifft, cyfeiriodd y Gweinidog at y cynllun effeithlonrwydd ynni cartref, ac yr ydym oll yn cytuno ei fod yn gynllun rhagorol. Yr unig broblem yw y cymer dros 100 mlynedd i’r cynllun hwnnw gwblhau’r gwaith, ac mae hynny’n awgrymu nad oes llawer iawn o frys yn ymateb y Llywodraeth. Mae Amcan 1 yn fodd arall i’r Llywodraeth ymateb i’r mater hwn. Unwaith eto, nid yw’r Llywodraeth ond wedi dyrannu 5 y cant o’r dyraniad posibl hyd at ddiwedd Rhagfyr 2002. Mae diffyg brys a difaterwch yn ymateb y Llywodraeth.
I also listened with interest to Mick Bates’s contribution. No-one can doubt Mick’s enthusiasm for this particular issue and the important work that he has done. Mick was at pains to tell us that many good things were going on. Much of what he referred to had been raised by Phil Williams, Cynog Dafis and others. Mick was in favour of all of that, and yet, he told us at the end that he would be voting against our motion. He was in favour of everything included in the motion, but he would vote against it. That says it all about the Liberal Democrats. We need not refer again to Peter Black and his view of offshore renewable energy—it is apparently wonderful everywhere apart from his own region.
yn Saesneg Gwrandewais gyda diddordeb hefyd ar gyfraniad Mick Bates. Ni all neb amau sêl Mick dros y mater penodol hwn a’r gwaith pwysig a wnaeth. Aeth Mick i drafferth fawr i ddweud wrthym fod llawer o bethau da’n mynd ymlaen. Yr oedd llawer o’r hyn y cyfeirodd ato wedi’i godi gan Phil Williams, Cynog Dafis ac eraill. Yr oedd Mick o blaid hynny i gyd, ac eto, dywedodd wrthym ar y diwedd y byddai’n pleidleisio yn erbyn ein cynnig. Yr oedd o blaid popeth a oedd yn y cynnig, ond pleidleisiai yn ei erbyn. Mae hynny’n dweud y cwbl am y Democratiaid Rhyddfrydol. Nid oes angen inni gyfeirio eto at Peter Black a’i farn am ynni adnewyddadwy ar y môr—mae’n debyg ei fod yn beth gwych ym mhobman ar wahân i’w ranbarth ei hun.
I am interested in your assertion and in your personalising of this issue against me, but, as Cynog refused to answer this question earlier, do you not accept that you must treat every planning application on its own merits? You cannot set out rules that apply to every planning application, as it would be against the laws of natural justice.
Ymddiddoraf yn eich haeriad ac yn y ffaith eich bod yn personoli’r mater hwn yn fy erbyn i, ond, gan fod Cynog wedi gwrthod ateb y cwestiwn hwn yn gynharach, a dderbyniwch fod rhaid trin pob cais cynllunio yn ôl ei rinweddau? Ni ellir gosod rheolau sy’n berthnasol i bob cais cynllunio, gan y byddai hynny’n groes i egwyddorion cyfiawnder naturiol.
So it is every offshore renewable energy application, apart from ones in your region, Peter? I sincerely hope that you return as a constituency member next time, as it will restrict the area in which you will be trying to stop offshore applications from being accepted.
Felly mae’n golygu pob cais am ynni adnewyddadwy ar y môr, heblaw am y rhai yn eich rhanbarth chi, Peter. Gobeithiaf yn wir y deuwch yn ôl yn aelod etholaeth y tro nesaf, gan y byddai hynny’n cyfyngu ar yr ardal lle y byddwch yn ceisio atal derbyn ceisiadau ar y môr.
As a matter of clarification, there is no reason for Peter to be involved in this because as a planning matter, it will go to the local authority. He is choosing to make a political point out of windfarms, which he is entitled to do, but I am surprised that he is not making the same point about windfarms across the rest of Wales.
Er mwyn rhoi gwedd eglurach ar hyn, nid oes rheswm i Peter ymwneud â hyn oherwydd, gan mai mater cynllunio ydyw, bydd yn mynd gerbron yr awdurdod lleol. Ef sy’n dewis gwneud pwynt gwleidyddol ar ffermydd gwynt, ac mae ganddo hawl i wneud hynny, ond yr wyf yn synnu nad yw’n gwneud yr un pwynt am ffermydd gwynt dros weddill Cymru.
Rhodri Glyn Thomas spoken in Welsh and English p. 87
Rhodri Glyn Thomas siaradwyd yn Gymraeg ac yn Saesneg t. 87
We need a sense of urgency and we need a strategy from the Government.
yn Saesneg Mae arnom angen ymdeimlad o frys ac mae arnom angen strategaeth gan y Llywodraeth.
Rhaid gofyn a yw Llywodraeth Cymru o ddifrif ar y mater hwn. Yr ydym bron â chyrraedd diwedd tymor cyntaf Cynulliad Cenedlaethol Cymru, ac nid oes gennym strategaeth. Rhaid inni aros, meddai Mick Bates ac Andrew Davies. Pa mor hir fydd yn rhaid inni aros hyd nes i Lywodraeth Cymru gymryd y mater hwn o ddifrif?
in Welsh We must ask whether the Government of Wales is serious about this issue. We have almost reached the end of the National Assembly’s first term, and we have no strategy. Mick Bates and Andrew Davies say that we must wait. How long must we wait until the Government of Wales takes this issue seriously?
Mis Mai? Yn ffodus, ar ôl mis Mai, ni fydd rhaid iddynt boeni rhyw lawer. Bydd Llywodraeth Plaid Cymru yn cymryd y mater hwn o ddifrif a gosodwn strategaeth yn ei lle.
May? Fortunately, after May, they will not have to worry much. The Plaid Cymru Government will take this matter seriously, and we will put a strategy in place.
John Marek The Deputy Presiding Officer spoken in English p. 87
John Marek Y Dirprwy Lywydd siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 87
I now call for a vote on amendment 1 in the name of Carwyn Jones. If this amendment is carried, the others will fall.
Galwaf yn awr am bleidlais ar welliant 1 yn enw Carwyn Jones. Os derbynnir y gwelliant hwn, bydd y lleill yn methu.
Gwelliant 1 Andrew Davies t. 87
Amendment 1 Andrew Davies p. 87
DerbyniwydAdopted O blaidFor 26 YmatalAbstain 0 Yn erbynAgainst 18
Derbyniwyd y gwelliant.
Amendment carried.
Sut y pleidleisiodd yr AelodauHow Members voted
O blaidFor (26)
- Lorraine Barrett
- Mick Bates
- Peter Black
- Eleanor Burnham
- Christine Chapman
- Jane Davidson
- Andrew Davies
- Richard Edwards
- Sue Essex
- Delyth Evans
- Michael German
- Brian Gibbons
- Janice Gregory
- John Griffiths
- Christine Gwyther
- Jane Hutt
- Ann Jones
- Carwyn Jones
- Peter Law
- Huw Lewis
- Val Lloyd
- Tom Middlehurst
- Rhodri Morgan
- Alun Pugh
- Karen Sinclair
- Gwenda Thomas
Yn erbynAgainst (18)
- Nick Bourne
- Alun Cairns
- Cynog Dafis
- David Davies
- Jocelyn Davies
- William Graham
- Brian Hancock
- David Ian Jones
- Elin Jones
- Gareth Jones
- Ieuan Wyn Jones
- David Lloyd
- David Melding
- Jonathan Morgan
- Peter Rogers
- Janet Ryder
- Owen John Thomas
- Phil Williams
Methodd gwelliant 2.
Amendment 2 fell.
Methodd gwelliant 3.
Amendment 3 fell.
Methodd gwelliant 4.
Amendment 4 fell.
Cynnig wedi’i ddiwygio Phil Williams t. 89
Amended motion Phil Williams p. 89
DerbyniwydAdopted O blaidFor 27 YmatalAbstain 0 Yn erbynAgainst 19
Derbyniwyd y cynnig wedi’i ddiwygio.
Amended motion carried.
Sut y pleidleisiodd yr AelodauHow Members voted
O blaidFor (27)
- Lorraine Barrett
- Mick Bates
- Peter Black
- Eleanor Burnham
- Christine Chapman
- Jane Davidson
- Andrew Davies
- Richard Edwards
- Sue Essex
- Delyth Evans
- Michael German
- Brian Gibbons
- Janice Gregory
- John Griffiths
- Christine Gwyther
- Jane Hutt
- Ann Jones
- Carwyn Jones
- Peter Law
- Huw Lewis
- Val Lloyd
- Tom Middlehurst
- Rhodri Morgan
- Lynne Neagle
- Alun Pugh
- Karen Sinclair
- Gwenda Thomas
Yn erbynAgainst (19)
- Nick Bourne
- Alun Cairns
- Cynog Dafis
- David Davies
- Jocelyn Davies
- William Graham
- Brian Hancock
- David Ian Jones
- Elin Jones
- Gareth Jones
- Ieuan Wyn Jones
- David Lloyd
- David Melding
- Jonathan Morgan
- Peter Rogers
- Janet Ryder
- Owen John Thomas
- Rhodri Glyn Thomas
- Phil Williams
Daeth y cyfarfod i ben am 4.58 p.m.
The session ended at 4.58 p.m.