English

Cynulliad Cenedlaethol CymruNational Assembly for Wales · Cyfarfod llawnPlenary sitting

Dydd Mercher 5 Chwefror 2003

Wednesday 5 February 2003

DechreuoddMet 14:00 · Daeth i benRose 17:06

Gweld y Cofnod (PDF)View the Record (PDF)

Heb ei wirio â llaw etoNot yet checked by hand

CynnwysContents

  1. 3Cwestiynau i’r Gweinidog dros Ddatblygu EconomaiddQuestions to the Minister for Economic Development
    1. 3Datblygu Economaidd a’r Seilwaith FuddsoddiInvestment Infrastructure and Economic Development
    2. 5Colli Swyddi Gweithgynhyrchu (Gorllewin De Cymru)Loss of Manufacturing Jobs (South Wales West)
    3. 7Adolygiad Canol Tymor Rhaglen Amcan 1Objective 1 Mid-term Review
    4. 9Dosbarthu Arian Amcan 2Payment of Objective 2 Money
    5. 10Cwpan RyderThe Ryder Cup
  2. 13Cwestiynau ar Gyllid i’r Gweinidog CyllidQuestions on Finance to the Finance Minister
    1. 13System Gyfrifiaduron y CynulliadThe Assembly’s Computer System
    2. 14Prif Grŵp Gwariant ar gyfer Llywodraeth LeolLocal Government Main Expenditure Group
    3. 15Portffolio Llywodraeth Leol a ChymunedauLocal Government and Communities Portfolio
    4. 17‘Iaith Pawb’
    5. 17Systemau TGCh Adrannau Llywodraeth y CynulliadICT Systems in Assembly Government Departments
    6. 19Amddifadedd Cymdeithasol yng NghymruSocial Deprivation in Wales
    7. 21Arian Ychwanegol i Heddluoedd CymruAdditional Funding for Welsh Police Forces
    8. 22Datganiad y DU ynghylch Cyllid MyfyrwyrUK Statement on Student Finance
    9. 22Symiau Canlyniadol DisgwyliedigExpected Consequential Sums
  3. 24Datganiad ar Gynnydd o ran Buddsoddi mewn Adeiladau YsgolionStatement on Progress in Investment in School Buildings
  4. 37Datganiad ar Gaffaeliad Allied Steel and WireStatement on the Acquisition of Allied Steel and Wire
  5. 47Pwyntiau o DrefnPoints of Order
  6. 51Cymeradwyo Canllawiau Polisi Rheoli Ansawdd Aer Lleol a Chanllawiau TechnegolApproval of the Local Air Quality Management Policy Guidance and Technical Guidance 1 bleidlais1 vote
  7. 59Cymeradwyo Rheoliadau Tenantiaethau Preswyl Hir (Prif Ffurflenni) (Diwygio) (Cymru) 2003Approval of the Long Residential Tenancies (Principal Forms) (Amendment) (Wales) Regulations 2003 2 o bleidleisiau2 votes
  8. 62Adolygiad Pum Mlynedd Bwrdd Croeso CymruThe Quinquennial Review of the Wales Tourist Board. 3 o bleidleisiau3 votes
  9. 79Dadl FerShort Debate
    1. 79Ysbytai CymunedolCommunity Hospitals

PleidleisiauVotes

PleidlaisVoteO blaidForYmatalAbstainYn erbynAgainstCanlyniadResult
Cymeradwyo Canllawiau Polisi Rheoli Ansawdd Aer Lleol a Chanllawiau TechnegolApproval of the Local Air Quality Management Policy Guidance and Technical Guidance
Cynnig NDM1336Motion NDM13363610DerbyniwydAdopted
Cymeradwyo Rheoliadau Tenantiaethau Preswyl Hir (Prif Ffurflenni) (Diwygio) (Cymru) 2003Approval of the Long Residential Tenancies (Principal Forms) (Amendment) (Wales) Regulations 2003
Cynnig NDM1334Motion NDM13343700DerbyniwydAdopted
Cynnig NDM1335Motion NDM13353800DerbyniwydAdopted
Adolygiad Pum Mlynedd Bwrdd Croeso CymruThe Quinquennial Review of the Wales Tourist Board.
Gwelliant 1Amendment 16724GwrthodwydRejected
Gwelliant 2Amendment 214024GwrthodwydRejected
Cynnig NDM1299Motion NDM12993800DerbyniwydAdopted

TrafodionProceedings

Cyfarfu’r Cynulliad am 2 p.m. gyda’r Llywydd yn y Gadair.

The Assembly met at 2 p.m. with the Presiding Officer in the Chair.

Cwestiynau i’r Gweinidog dros Ddatblygu Economaidd

Questions to the Minister for Economic Development

Datblygu Economaidd a’r Seilwaith Fuddsoddi

Investment Infrastructure and Economic Development

Q1 Kirsty Williams spoken in English p. 3

C1 Kirsty Williams siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 3

What discussions has the Minister had with other Ministers about the connection between investment infrastructure and economic development? (OAQ22241)

Pa drafodaethau a gafodd y Gweinidog gyda Gweinidogion eraill am y cysylltiad rhwng datblygu economaidd a’r seilwaith fuddsoddi? (OAQ22241)

Andrew Davies The Minister for Economic Development spoken in English p. 3

Andrew Davies Y Gweinidog dros Ddatblygu Economaidd siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 3

‘A Winning Wales’ sets out the Assembly Government’s economic development strategy to transform the economy of Wales. A successful economy is based on a range of factors, including targeted education and training, widely available information technology, a culture of innovation, strong communities, good transport links, and effective business support and investment. In developing the action required to deliver ‘A Winning Wales’, I regularly discuss with other Ministers how we can most effectively increase the prosperity of the people of Wales.

Amlinella ‘Cymru’n Ennill’ strategaeth datblygu economaidd Llywodraeth y Cynulliad i drawsnewid economi Cymru. Mae economi lwyddiannus yn seiliedig ar amryw o ffactorau, gan gynnwys addysg a hyfforddiant wedi’u targedu; technoleg gwybodaeth sydd ar gael yn eang, diwylliant o arloesedd, cymunedau cryf, cysylltiadau trafnidiaeth da, a chymorth a buddsoddiad busnes effeithiol. Wrth ddatblygu’r camau sy’n angenrheidiol i gyflawni ‘Cymru’n Ennill’, trafodaf yn rheolaidd gyda Gweinidogion eraill sut y gallwn gynyddu ffyniant pobl Cymru yn y ffordd fwyaf effeithiol.

Kirsty Williams spoken in English p. 3

Kirsty Williams siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 3

You mentioned the importance of good transport links. You will be aware of the difficulties some businesses have in relocating to my constituency because of relatively poor transport links. What discussions have you had with Sue Essex, the Minister responsible for transport, about improving important routes such as the A44, the A470 and the A483 to ensure that business in my constituency does not suffer because of poor transport links?

Soniasoch am bwysigrwydd cysylltiadau trafnidiaeth da. Byddwch yn ymwybodol o anawsterau rhai busnesau wrth adleoli i fy etholaeth i oherwydd cysylltiadau trafnidiaeth cymharol wael. Pa drafodaethau a gawsoch gyda Sue Essex, y Gweinidog sy’n gyfrifol am drafnidiaeth, am wella ffyrdd pwysig fel yr A44, yr A470 a’r A483 i sicrhau na fydd busnes yn fy etholaeth yn dioddef oherwydd cysylltiadau trafnidiaeth gwael?

Andrew Davies spoken in English p. 3

Andrew Davies siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 3

I am in regular contact with all my ministerial colleagues, including Sue Essex, with regard to transport. We are looking at the whole planning system and the distribution of economic development across Wales in the context of the spatial plan, of which transport is a key element. I was in your constituency this morning with Cynog Dafis at the launch of the manufacturing careers booklet, at BVG Airflo on the Ffrwdgrech Industrial Estate, Brecon. I could see for myself the importance of those links. We are investing quite substantially in the trunk road programme, including the A479 Talgarth relief road and upgrades on the A470. Good infrastructure and transport links are vital and we are investing key amounts in that, but much remains to be done.

Yr wyf mewn cysylltiad rheolaidd â’m cyd-Aelodau gweinidogol, gan gynnwys Sue Essex, ynglŷn â thrafnidiaeth. Yr ydym yn edrych ar yr holl system gynllunio a dosbarthiad datblygu economaidd ledled Cymru yng nghyd-destun y cynllun gofodol, y mae trafnidiaeth yn elfen allweddol ohono. Yr oeddwn yn eich etholaeth y bore yma gyda Cynog Dafis ar achlysur lansio’r llyfryn gyrfaoedd gweithgynhyrchu, yn BVG Airflo ar Ystad Ddiwydiannol Ffrwdgrech, Aberhonddu. Gallwn weld pwysigrwydd y cysylltiadau hynny drosof fy hun. Yr ydym yn buddsoddi swm eithaf sylweddol yn y rhaglen gefnffordd, gan gynnwys ffordd liniaru Talgarth yr A479 a gwelliannau ar yr A470. Mae seilwaith a chysylltiadau trafnidiaeth da yn hanfodol ac yr ydym yn buddsoddi symiau allweddol yn hynny, ond mae llawer i’w wneud o hyd.

Dafydd Wigley spoken in English p. 4

Dafydd Wigley siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 4

Does the Minister accept that the development of broadband infrastructure is vital for all of Wales, but particularly rural Wales? Can he confirm that, for rural Wales, he has based his strategy largely on wireless technology? Against that background, what is his reaction to the Department of Trade and Industry’s decision to choose a model that carves Wales up into four packages: north Wales will be linked with Yorkshire and north Lancashire, mid Wales will be linked with Lincolnshire, south Wales will be linked with Devon and Cornwall, and Cardiff with Severnside? That is contrary to the advisory committee’s recommendations. What has he done to get the DTI to take notice of the Assembly’s wishes?

A yw’r Gweinidog yn derbyn bod datblygu seilwaith band eang yn hanfodol i Gymru gyfan, ond yn arbennig i Gymru wledig? A all gadarnhau ei fod wedi seilio ei strategaeth ar gyfer Cymru wledig, ar dechnoleg di-wifr yn bennaf? Yn erbyn y cefndir hwnnw, beth yw ei ymateb i benderfyniad yr Adran Masnach a Diwydiant i ddewis model sy’n rhannu Cymru yn bedwar pecyn: cysylltir gogledd Cymru gyda Swydd Efrog a gogledd Swydd Gaerhirfryn; cysylltir canolbarth Cymru gyda Swydd Lincoln, cysylltir de Cymru gyda Dyfnaint a Chernyw, a Chaerdydd gyda Glan Hafren? Mae hynny’n groes i argymhellion y pwyllgor ymgynghorol. Beth a wnaeth i sicrhau bod yr Adran Masnach a Diwydiant yn talu sylw i ddymuniadau’r Cynulliad?

Andrew Davies spoken in English p. 4

Andrew Davies siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 4

Broadband is vital to the future prosperity of Wales, which is why the Government will invest £115 million in the roll-out of broadband—the largest public sector engagement initiative in broadband roll-out anywhere in the UK. Wireless will play a part in broadband rollout but, as I have said on numerous occasions, I am delighted that Plaid Cymru now agrees that a mixture of technologies is needed, including wireless. I have said this for some time, though many Members have not accepted it until recently. I informed the Economic Development Committee last week that I was extremely disappointed by the Radiocommunications Agency’s decision regarding the 3.4 gHz licence auction. We made our views known, as did Professor Mike Tedd, chair of the Welsh Advisory Committee on Telecommunications. I made representations to the DTI, as did officials, and we will continue to press for two licences in Wales, one based in the Objective 1 area and one based in the non-Objective 1 area. We will continue to press our case, but we do not know what the outcome will be. I will be fighting hard for that position.

Mae band eang yn hanfodol i ffyniant Cymru ar gyfer y dyfodol, a dyna pam y bydd y Llywodraeth yn buddsoddi £115 miliwn i gyflwyno band eang—y fenter fwyaf o ran cyflwyno band eang sector cyhoeddus yn y DU. Bydd technoleg di- wifr yn chwarae rhan yn y broses o gyflwyno band eang ond, fel y dywedais ar sawl achlysur, yr wyf wrth fy modd bod Plaid Cymru bellach yn cytuno bod angen cymysgedd o dechnolegau, gan gynnwys technoleg di-wifr. Dywedais hyn ers peth amser, er nad yw llawer o’r Aelodau wedi ei dderbyn tan yn ddiweddar. Hysbysais y Pwyllgor Datblygu Economaidd yr wythnos diwethaf fy mod yn hynod siomedig â phenderfyniad yr Asiantaeth Radiogyfathrebu ynglŷn ag arwerthiant y drwydded 3.4 gHz. Gwnaethom leisio ein barn, fel y gwnaeth yr Athro Mike Tedd, cadeirydd Pwyllgor Ymgynghorol Cymru ar Delathrebu. Gwneuthum sylwadau i’r Adran Masnach a Diwydiant, fel y gwnaeth y swyddogion, a byddwn yn parhau i bwyso am ddwy drwydded yng Nghymru, un yn ardal Amcan 1 ac un yn yr ardal nad yw’n rhan o Amcan 1. Byddwn yn parhau i bledio’n hachos, ond ni wyddom beth fydd y canlyniad. Byddaf yn brwydro’n galed dros y sefyllfa honno.

David Davies spoken in English p. 5

David Davies siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 5

Does the Minister accept that investing in a good transport and information communication technology infrastructure system is a good way of encouraging companies not only to come to Wales, but also to stay in Wales? Does he also agree that this is better than just paying out grants, which, as we have sadly seen, does not discourage companies from leaving once the money has been paid out?

A yw’r Gweinidog yn cytuno bod buddsoddi mewn system seilwaith trafnidiaeth a thechnoleg gwybodaeth a chyfathrebu dda yn ffordd dda o annog cwmnïau nid yn unig i ddod i Gymru, ond hefyd i aros yng Nghymru? A yw hefyd yn cytuno bod hyn yn well na dim ond talu grantiau gan nad ydynt, fel y gwelwyd gwaetha’r modd, yn annog cwmnïau i aros wedi i’r arian gael ei dalu?

Andrew Davies spoken in English p. 5

Andrew Davies siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 5

Yes, it is vital to invest in both information communication technologies and transport infrastructure. However, grants are also important to help companies, both indigenous, Welsh-based companies and also overseas investors. Our strategy’s success meant that last year was a record year for regional selective assistance. The demand for our new Assembly investment grant has been phenomenal in terms of take-up by small companies. It is not a case of either/or, it is both, and we are successful in both areas.

Ydy, mae’n hanfodol buddsoddi mewn technolegau gwybodaeth a chyfathrebu a seilwaith trafnidiaeth. Fodd bynnag, mae grantiau hefyd yn bwysig i helpu cwmnïau cynhenid, cwmnïau sydd wedi’u lleoli yng Nghymru a buddsoddwyr tramor hefyd. Golygodd llwyddiant ein strategaeth mai y llynedd oedd y flwyddyn orau ar gyfer cymorth rhanbarthol dewisol. Bu’r galw am grant buddsoddi newydd y Cynulliad yn aruthrol o ran yr ymateb gan gwmnïau bach. Nid achos o naill ai/neu ydyw, mae’n berthnasol i’r ddau, ac yr ydym yn llwyddiannus yn y ddau faes.

Colli Swyddi Gweithgynhyrchu (Gorllewin De Cymru)

Loss of Manufacturing Jobs (South Wales West)

Q2 Peter Black spoken in English p. 5

C2 Peter Black siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 5

How many manufacturing jobs have been lost in the South Wales West region in the last 12 months? (OAQ22229)

Sawl swydd waithgynhyrchu a gollwyd yn ardal Gorllewin De Cymru yn ystod y 12 mis diwethaf? (OAQ22229)

Andrew Davies spoken in English p. 5

Andrew Davies siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 5

The most recent data from the Welsh register of manufacturing employment show that manufacturing employment in South Wales West fell by 100 over the 15 months to the end of 2001. This comprised job gains of 4,000 almost exactly offset by job losses of 4,100.

Dengys y data diweddaraf o’r gofrestr cyflogaeth gweithgynhyrchu yng Nghymru y disgynnodd cyflogaeth gweithgynhyrchu yng Ngorllewin De Cymru o 100 o swyddi dros y 15 mis hyd at ddiwedd 2001. Yr oedd hyn yn cynnwys 4,000 o swyddi newydd a wrthbwyswyd yn union bron â cholli 4,100 o swyddi.

Peter Black spoken in English p. 5

Peter Black siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 5

I refer you to one particular announcement made a few weeks ago by Alcoa in your constituency of Swansea West. What action is the Welsh Assembly Government taking to mitigate the effect of those job losses, and what talks have taken place with the company in an effort to try to salvage something from this business?

Fe’ch cyfeiriaf at un cyhoeddiad penodol a wnaed ychydig wythnosau yn ôl gan Alcoa yn eich etholaeth sef Gorllewin Abertawe. Pa gamau y mae Llywodraeth Cynulliad Cymru yn eu cymryd i leihau effaith colli’r swyddi hynny, a pha drafodaethau a gynhaliwyd gyda’r cwmni mewn ymdrech i geisio achub rhywfaint o’r busnes hwn?

Andrew Davies spoken in English p. 6

Andrew Davies siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 6

I will link that with the previous question from David Davies. Clearly, if we had not invested £4.25 million in the neighbouring plant, the rolling plant at Alcoa, an extra 280 jobs would have been lost. That is a signal of our success in terms of the use of grants. I have been in discussions with both the company and Team Wales. I have also spoken to the district official of the Transport and General Workers Union to see what can be done to help those Alcoa workers who will be made redundant, to get them into alternative employment or high-quality training. That is something that I will be working on with my ministerial colleague Jane Davidson.

Cysylltaf hynny â chwestiwn blaenorol David Davies. Yn amlwg, pe na baem wedi buddsoddi £4.25 miliwn yn y ffatri gyfagos, sef ffatri rholio Alcoa, byddai 280 o swyddi ychwanegol wedi’u colli. Mae hynny’n arwydd o’n llwyddiant wrth ddefnyddio’r grantiau. Cefais drafodaethau gyda’r cwmni a Thîm Cymru. Siaradais hefyd â swyddog cylch Undeb y Gweithwyr Trafnidiaeth a Chyffredinol i weld beth y gellir ei wneud i helpu gweithwyr Alcoa a gaiff eu diswyddo, i sicrhau gwaith arall neu hyfforddiant o ansawdd uchel iddynt. Mae hynny’n rywbeth y byddaf yn gweithio arno gyda’m cyd-Weinidog Jane Davidson.

Alun Cairns spoken in English p. 6

Alun Cairns siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 6

It seems clear that the Minister does not accept the reality of the situation. Today, almost four years after the Labour Assembly Government came to power, the Confederation of British Industry has issued a devastating report on the Welsh economy. Output is set to decline, investment is set to fall, and employment is set to contract. I notice that the First Minister is gesturing, but that is the reality of the situation as it is seen in the business sector. Actions like that from the First Minister and the Minister for Economic Development are wholly unacceptable, because they are ignoring the reality of the economy in Wales. While he is complaining about whingeing, people are losing their jobs in South Wales West and across the manufacturing sector in Wales. What exactly does the Minister propose to do to reverse the ongoing decline in the manufacturing industry?

Mae’n amlwg nad yw’r Gweinidog yn derbyn realiti’r sefyllfa. Heddiw, bron i bedair blynedd ar ôl i Lywodraeth Lafur y Cynulliad ddod i rym, cyhoeddodd Cydffederasiwn Diwydiant Prydain adroddiad trychinebus ar economi Cymru. Disgwylir i’r allbwn leihau, disgwylir i fuddsoddiad ostwng, a disgwylir i gyflogaeth gyfangu. Sylwaf fod y Prif Weinidog yn ystumio, ond dyna realiti’r sefyllfa fel y’i gwelir yn y sector busnes. Mae camau felly gan y Prif Weinidog a’r Gweinidog dros Ddatblygu Economaidd yn hollol annerbyniol, am eu bod yn anwybyddu realiti’r economi yng Nghymru. Tra ei fod yn cwyno bod pobl yn swnian, mae pobl yn colli eu swyddi yng Ngorllewin De Cymru ac ar draws y sector gweithgynhyrchu yng Nghymru. Beth yn union y mae’r Gweinidog yn bwriadu ei wneud i wyrdroi’r dirywiad parhaus yn y diwydiant gweithgynhyrchu?

Andrew Davies spoken in English p. 6

Andrew Davies siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 6

Wales, as part of the UK economy, has gone through some difficult world trading conditions and the most severe recession since the early 1990s, when Alun’s party was in government at a UK level. At that time there was a massive increase in unemployment and a reduction in the number of people in work. At the moment we still have reduced unemployment, and we had a 2 per cent drop in economic inactivity last year, which was the highest fall in any part of the UK. That is a tribute to how successfully the economy is being managed both in terms of the UK and Wales.

Aeth Cymru, fel rhan o economi’r DU, drwy gyfnod anodd o ran amodau masnachu byd-eang a’r dirwasgiad mwyaf difrifol ers dechrau’r 1990au, pan oedd plaid Alun yn llywodraethu ar lefel y DU. Bryd hynny gwelwyd cynnydd aruthrol mewn diweithdra a gostyngiad yn nifer y bobl mewn gwaith. Ar hyn o bryd mae gennym ddiweithdra gostyngedig o hyd, a gwelwyd gostyngiad o 2 y cant mewn anweithgarwch economaidd y llynedd, sef y cwymp uchaf mewn unrhyw ran o’r DU. Mae hynny’n deyrnged i’n llwyddiant wrth reoli’r economi o ran y DU a Chymru.

The CBI survey is not optimistic, but there have been many other surveys which have been optimistic, for example, the Cardiff chamber of commerce survey, the Manpower survey, which said that job prospects in Wales were the best in the UK, and the purchasing managers’ index, which said that Wales was likely to be the most prosperous area in terms of such activity. Alun has just picked out one survey which supports his own view, but most other professionals would say that there is a much more optimistic outlook for the Welsh economy in the near future.

Nid yw arolwg y CBI yn optimistaidd, ond cynhaliwyd llawer o arolygon optimistaidd eraill, er enghraifft, arolwg siambr fasnach Caerdydd, arolwg Manpower, a ddywedodd mai’r rhagolygon swyddi yng Nghymru oedd y rhai gorau yn y DU, a mynegai’r rheolwyr sy’n prynu, a ddywedodd ei bod yn debygol mai Cymru fyddai’r ardal fwyaf ffyniannus o ran gweithgarwch o’r fath. Dewisodd Alun yr un arolwg sy’n cefnogi ei safbwynt ef, ond byddai’r rhan fwyaf o weithwyr proffesiynol eraill yn dweud bod rhagolygon llawer iawn mwy optimistaidd i economi Cymru yn y dyfodol agos.

Elin Jones siaradwyd yn Gymraeg t. 7

Elin Jones spoken in Welsh p. 7

Mae ffigurau swyddogol yn dangos y bu cynnydd o 28,000 mewn cyflogaeth yn nwyrain Cymru y llynedd, ond dim ond cynnydd o 9,000 yn ardaloedd Amcan 1 y Gorllewin a’r Cymoedd. Mae’ch strategaeth ar hynny yn dweud eich bod yn bwriadu rhoi pwyslais ar ardaloedd Amcan 1 yn y Gorllewin a’r Cymoedd, ond mae’r ffigurau yn dangos sefyllfa wahanol. A dderbyniwch fod eich strategaeth yn methu’r cymunedau mwyaf anghenus yng Nghymru?

Official figures showed an increase of 28,000 in employment in east Wales last year, but an increase of only 9,000 in the Objective 1 areas of west Wales and the Valleys. Your strategy on that states that you intend to place emphasis on Objective 1 areas in west Wales and the Valleys, but the figures tell a different story. Do you accept that your strategy is failing the most disadvantaged communities in Wales?

Andrew Davies spoken in English p. 7

Andrew Davies siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 7

No. You must bear in mind that unemployment is falling across most parts of Wales, both within and outside Objective 1 areas. Yes, the last labour force survey showed that there was a greater increase in east Wales than in the Objective 1 areas, but previous labour force surveys have shown the opposite, and that unemployment has fallen faster in the Objective 1 areas than in east Wales. The forces of Conservatism are alive and well in Plaid Cymru, as you talk down Wales yet again.

Na wnaf. Rhaid ichi gofio bod diweithdra yn gostwng ar draws y rhan fwyaf o Gymru, y tu mewn a’r tu allan i ardaloedd Amcan 1. Do, dangosodd arolwg y gweithlu diwethaf fod mwy o gynnydd yn nwyrain Cymru nac yn ardaloedd Amcan 1, ond dengys arolygon y gweithlu blaenorol y gwrthwyneb, sef y bu’r gwymp mewn diweithdra yn gyflymach yn ardaloedd Amcan 1 nac yn nwyrain Cymru. Mae grymoedd Ceidwadaeth yn fyw ac yn iach ym Mhlaid Cymru, wrth ichi sarhau Cymru unwaith eto.

Adolygiad Canol Tymor Rhaglen Amcan 1

Objective 1 Mid-term Review

C3 Cynog Dafis siaradwyd yn Gymraeg t. 7

Q3 Cynog Dafis spoken in Welsh p. 7

Pa drefniadau sydd gan y Gweinidog ar y gweill ar gyfer adolygiad canol tymor rhaglen Amcan 1? (OAQ22158)

What arrangements is the Minister making for the Objective 1 mid-term review? (OAQ22158)

Andrew Davies spoken in English p. 8

Andrew Davies siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 8

It is helpful to distinguish between the mid-term evaluation and the mid-term review of the Objective 1 programme. The independent mid-term evaluation of the programme is currently underway, and a draft report is due to be available for consideration by the programme monitoring committee in June 2003. The Welsh Assembly Government, as the managing authority for the structural funds programme in Wales, will then take account of the draft report in preparing a mid-term review. A review paper will be put to the programme monitoring committee in September this year. Our proposals will then be sent to the European Commission, which is required by regulation to respond before 31 March 2004.

Mae o gymorth i wahaniaethu rhwng gwerthusiad canol tymor ac adolygiad canol tymor rhaglen Amcan 1. Mae’r gwerthusiad canol tymor annibynnol o’r rhaglen wedi cychwyn, a disgwylir y bydd adroddiad drafft ar gael i’w ystyried gan bwyllgor monitro’r rhaglen ym Mehefin 2003. Bydd Llywodraeth Cynulliad Cymru, fel awdurdod rheoli rhaglen cronfeydd strwythurol yng Nghymru, yn ystyried yr adroddiad drafft wrth baratoi adolygiad canol tymor. Cyflwynir papur adolygiad i bwyllgor monitro’r rhaglen ym mis Medi eleni. Yna anfonir ein cynigion i’r Comisiwn Ewropeaidd, a bydd yn rhaid iddo ymateb yn ôl y rheoliadau cyn 31 Mawrth 2004.

Cynog Dafis siaradwyd yn Gymraeg t. 8

Cynog Dafis spoken in Welsh p. 8

Mae’n drueni bod honno’n broses mor estynedig. A gytunwch fod y strwythurau biwrocrataidd sydd wedi cael eu creu ar gyfer cyflawni rhaglen Amcan 1 yn creu hunllef i lawer o’r rhai sy’n ceisio am gymorth, ac yn arbennig, i’r sector preifat sy’n teimlo ei fod wedi’i allgáu o’r broses? A gytunwch fod cyfle, drwy’r adolygiad hanner tymor, i symleiddio’r strwythurau hynny’n sylweddol, a chael gwared ar rai o’r partneriaethau sy’n creu’r problemau ar hyn o bryd?

It is a pity that that process is so protracted. Do you agree that the bureaucratic structures that have been created for delivering the Objective 1 programme are creating a nightmare for many of those who are applying for assistance, and in particular, for the private sector, which feels excluded from the process? Do you agree that there is an opportunity, through the mid-term review, to simplify those structures significantly and get rid of some of the partnerships that are creating those problems at present?

Andrew Davies spoken in English p. 8

Andrew Davies siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 8

I will use any opportunity to make the Objective 1 process as streamlined and effective as possible. If it is possible to streamline the process and take action before the evaluation and the review report, then I will do so. Concerns have been expressed at all levels about the functioning of the structures. That must be considered in the evaluation and review. Concerns have been expressed by many partners, not just in the private sector. We all agree that the process should be made as accessible, streamlined and effective as possible. That is my intention.

Defnyddiaf unrhyw gyfle i wneud proses Amcan 1 mor syml ac effeithiol â phosibl. Os bydd yn bosibl symleiddio’r broses a gweithredu cyn y gwerthusiad ac adroddiad yr adolygiad, fe wnaf hynny. Mynegwyd pryderon ar bob lefel ynglŷn â gweithredu’r strwythurau. Rhaid ystyried hynny yn y gwerthusiad a’r adolygiad. Mynegwyd pryderon gan sawl partner, nid yn unig yn y sector preifat. Yr ydym oll yn gytûn y dylai’r broses fod mor hygyrch, syml ac effeithiol â phosibl. Dyna yw fy mwriad.

Nick Bourne The Leader of the Welsh Conservatives spoken in English p. 8

Nick Bourne Arweinydd Ceidwadwyr Cymru siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 8

I criticise you for talking Wales down, because your performance is responsible for that. Your figures stated that only 44 jobs were created at a cost of £76 million. We know that new figures were then rushed out to try to correct this impression, but it is your abysmal performance that has been responsible for Wales being talked down. We must inject a sense of urgency into this mid-term review. You stand there complacently and say that you will try to do this and that. It needs streamlining, it needs a push, and it needs some pizzazz, which you do not show any sign of injecting into the system. We need some streamlining and private sector involvement before all this potential benefit is lost to Wales. The wealth gap is widening not narrowing. You have been a disaster. What will you do in this mid-term review to get things moving—[Laughter.] I can see that the First Minister thinks that this is a laughing matter—

Yr wyf yn eich beirniadu am ddiraddio Cymru oherwydd eich perfformiad chi sy’n gyfrifol am hynny. Yn ôl eich ffigurau crëwyd 44 o swyddi yn unig ar gost o £76 miliwn. Gwyddom fod ffigurau newydd wedi eu paratoi ar frys wedyn i geisio cywiro’r argraff hon, ond eich perfformiad trychinebus chi sy’n gyfrifol am y ffaith bod Cymru’n cael ei diraddio. Rhaid inni greu ymdeimlad o frys yn yr adolygiad canol tymor. Yr ydych yn sefyll yno’n hunanfodlon gan ddweud y byddwch yn ceisio gwneud hyn a’r llall. Mae angen ei symleiddio, mae angen hwb arno, mae angen peth egni a steil, pethau nad ydych yn dangos unrhyw arwydd eich bod yn mynd i’w rhoi yn y system. Mae angen rhywfaint o symleiddio a chyfranogiad gan y sector preifat cyn i Gymru golli’r budd posibl hwn. Mae’r bwlch cyfoeth yn ehangu yn hytrach na chulhau. Yr ydych wedi bod yn drychinebus. Beth a wnewch yn yr adolygiad canol tymor hwn i roi hwb i bethau—[Chwerthin.] Gallaf weld bod y Prif Weinidog yn meddwl bod hyn yn ddoniol—

Dafydd Elis-Thomas The Presiding Officer spoken in English p. 9

Dafydd Elis-Thomas Y Llywydd siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 9

Order. When supplementaries are being asked, Members should listen.

Trefn. Pan ofynnir cwestiynau atodol, dylai’r Aelodau wrando.

Andrew Davies spoken in English p. 9

Andrew Davies siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 9

If investing £115 million in broadband is a failure, then I admit to it. If having record numbers of people in work in Wales is a failure, then I admit to it. If having the lowest levels of unemployment for a generation is a failure, then I admit to it. If committing £1 billion of structural funds to projects throughout Wales is a failure, then again, I admit to it. To be attacked for a lack of pizzazz by you, Nick, is—to use the well-known phrase—like being savaged by a dead sheep.

Os yw buddsoddi £115 miliwn mewn band eang yn fethiant, yna cyfaddefaf hynny. Os yw cael y nifer mwyaf erioed o bobl mewn gwaith yng Nghymru yn fethiant, yna cyfaddefaf hynny. Os yw cael y lefel isaf o ddiweithdra ers cenhedlaeth yn fethiant, yna cyfaddefaf hynny. Os yw ymrwymo £1 biliwn o gronfeydd strwythurol i brosiectau drwy Gymru yn fethiant, yna eto, cyfaddefaf hynny. Mae cael fy nghyhuddo o ddiffyg egni a steil gennych chi, Nick—i ddefnyddio’r dywediad adnabyddus—fel cael eich llarpio gan ddafad farw.

Dafydd Elis-Thomas The Presiding Officer spoken in English p. 9

Dafydd Elis-Thomas Y Llywydd siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 9

Question 4 (OAQ22167) has been withdrawn.

Tynnwyd cwestiwn 4 (OAQ22167) yn ôl.

Dosbarthu Arian Amcan 2

Payment of Objective 2 Money

Q5 Kirsty Williams spoken in English p. 9

C5 Kirsty Williams siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 9

Will the Minister make a statement on how much Objective 2 money has been paid out? (OAQ22239)

A wnaiff y Gweinidog ddatganiad am gyfanswm yr arian Amcan 2 a ddosbarthwyd hyd yn hyn? (OAQ22239)

Andrew Davies spoken in English p. 9

Andrew Davies siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 9

A sum of £1.2 million was paid out to Objective 2 projects at the end of December.

Dosbarthwyd swm o £1.2 miliwn i brosiectau Amcan 2 hyd at ddiwedd Rhagfyr.

Kirsty Williams spoken in English p. 9

Kirsty Williams siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 9

You will be aware that Objective 2 offered many parts of my constituency much hope in terms of attracting European investment to Brecon and Radnorshire. Concern has been expressed about the fact that large numbers of projects are currently not being approved by the Welsh European Funding Office. Can you reassure my constituents that every effort is being made to make the Objective 2 project a success and that this money is spent in many parts of mid Wales?

Byddwch yn ymwybodol i Amcan 2 gynnig llawer o obaith i sawl rhan o’m hetholaeth o ran denu buddsoddiad Ewropeaidd i Frycheiniog a Sir Faesyfed. Lleisiwyd pryder ynglŷn â’r ffaith na chymeradwyir nifer helaeth o brosiectau gan Swyddfa Cyllid Ewropeaidd Cymru. A allwch chi sicrhau fy etholwyr y gwneir pob ymdrech i sicrhau llwyddiant prosiect Amcan 2 ac y gwerir yr arian hwn mewn sawl rhan o ganolbarth Cymru?

Andrew Davies spoken in English p. 10

Andrew Davies siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 10

There have been concerns about the commitment of Objective 2 money. I have been working with the chair of the Objective 2 programme monitoring committee to address these issues. Clearly, the Objective 2 programme is different from Objective 1 and the amounts of money available are significantly lower, which means that many businesses, particularly in the private sector, do not bother to apply. However, by the end of January, 70 projects had received offers of grants to the value of £9.68 million. Finance Wales has put in a bid requesting £8.4 million to develop its programme. Projects currently with a partnership include a substantial Wales Tourist Board bid for £2 million and a task group has been established to help boost spending on sites and premises. Round six is currently open and further projects are expected to come forward. As you know, that round closes on 7 February.

Bu rhai pryderon ynghylch ymrwymo arian Amcan 2. Bûm yn gweithio â chadeirydd pwyllgor monitro rhaglen Amcan 2 i ymdrin â’r materion hyn. Mae’n amlwg bod rhaglen Amcan 2 yn wahanol i Amcan 1 ac mae lefel yr arian sydd ar gael yn is o lawer, sy’n golygu nad yw llawer o fusnesau, yn arbennig yn y sector preifat, yn trafferthu i wneud cais. Er hynny, erbyn diwedd Ionawr, cynigiwyd gwerth £9.68 miliwn o grantiau i 70 o brosiectau. Mae Cyllid Cymru wedi gwneud cais am £8.4 miliwn i ddatblygu ei raglen. Ar hyn o bryd mae’r prosiectau sydd â phartneriaeth yn cynnwys cais sylweddol am £2 filiwn gan Fwrdd Croeso Cymru a sefydlwyd tasglu i hybu gwariant ar safleoedd ac adeiladau. Mae rownd chwech ar agor ar hyn o bryd a disgwylir i ragor o brosiectau gael eu cyflwyno. Fel y gwyddoch, mae’r rownd honno yn cau ar 7 Chwefror.

Janet Ryder spoken in English p. 10

Janet Ryder siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 10

At the end of the last round of Objective 1 funds, there was a significant amount of Objective 2 and 5b funding left unspent. How much of this still remains unspent and will you assure me that that money will not be decommitted?

Ar ddiwedd rownd olaf Amcan 1, yr oedd swm sylweddol o arian o Amcan 2 a 5b heb ei wario. Faint sydd heb ei wario o hyd ac a wnewch chi fy sicrhau na fydd yr arian yn cael ei ddadymrwymo?

Andrew Davies spoken in English p. 10

Andrew Davies siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 10

I do not have the figures to hand, but I will write to you with those figures. Clearly, we will try to make the most of the commitment on that spend.

Nid yw’r ffigurau gennyf wrth law, ond ysgrifennaf atoch â’r ffigurau hynny. Yn amlwg, ceisiwn wneud y gorau o’r ymrwymiad ar y gwariant hwnnw.

Cwpan Ryder

The Ryder Cup

Q6 Christine Chapman spoken in English p. 10

C6 Christine Chapman siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 10

Will the Minister make a statement about the economic development benefits of staging the Ryder Cup in Wales? (OAQ22220)

A wnaiff y Gweinidog ddatganiad am y manteision datblygu economaidd o ganlyniad i gynnal Cwpan Ryder yng Nghymru? (OAQ22220)

Andrew Davies spoken in English p. 10

Andrew Davies siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 10

The Ryder Cup in 2010 represents an excellent opportunity to raise the international profile of Wales and to maximise the economic opportunities of bringing this seminal event to Wales. Wales will be exposed to major markets around the world, reinforcing its credibility as the ideal location to visit and one in which business can invest. The direct economic benefit of the Ryder Cup to Spain in 1997 was calculated at £56.2 million. Spectators spent almost £11 million on accommodation during the event with 43 per cent of Americans taking the opportunity of an extended holiday. Based on these figures, the Ryder Cup in 2010 is expected to result in a direct cash in-flow into Wales of over £45 million and a total spending effect of almost £67 million, adding £24 million to Welsh gross domestic product.

Mae Cwpan Ryder yn 2010 yn gyfle ardderchog i roi mwy o amlygrwydd rhyngwladol i Gymru ac i amlhau’r cyfleoedd economaidd a ddaw yn sgîl dod â’r digwyddiad arloesol hwn i Gymru. Amlygir Cymru i brif farchnadoedd y byd, ac atgyfnerthir ei hygrededd fel y man delfrydol i ymweld ag ef a lle y gall busnesau fuddsoddi ynddo. Cyfrifwyd mai gwerth economaidd uniongyrchol y Cwpan Ryder i Sbaen yn 1997 oedd £56.2 miliwn. Gwariodd cefnogwyr bron i £11 miliwn ar lety yn ystod y digwyddiad a manteisiodd 43 y cant o Americanwyr ar y cyfle i gael gwyliau estynedig. Ar sail y ffigurau hyn, disgwylir i Gwpan Ryder yn 2010 ddod â dros £45 miliwn yn uniongyrchol i Gymru a chyfanswm effaith gwariant o bron i £67 miliwn, gan ychwanegu £24 miliwn at gynnyrch mewnwladol crynswth Cymru.

Christine Chapman spoken in English p. 11

Christine Chapman siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 11

As you said, it will be a tremendous boost for Wales. Will you ensure that, alongside the work of Golf Development Wales, local golf clubs are kept informed of developments and the potential impact on their membership? Furthermore, what development opportunities will be available ahead of the event in 2010?

Fel y dywedasoch, bydd yn hwb mawr i Gymru. A wnewch chi sicrhau, ochr yn ochr â gwaith Datblygu Golff Cymru, yr hysbysir clybiau golff lleol am ddatblygiadau a’r effaith bosibl ar eu haelodaeth? Hefyd, pa gyfleoedd datblygu a fydd ar gael cyn yr achlysur yn 2010?

Andrew Davies spoken in English p. 11

Andrew Davies siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 11

At ministerial level, the First Minister, Jenny Randerson and myself and the project team—the Welsh Development Agency, the Wales Tourist Board and the Sports Council for Wales along with other bodies—have been working to maximise the opportunities provided. We now have less than eight years in which to make the most of the Ryder Cup as a sporting and business opportunity. One of our major priorities is to increase the take-up of golf and extend golf facilities around Wales, particularly those close to the Ryder Cup course at Celtic Manor. We will work with schools, try to get young people to take up the game, and break out into non-traditional areas to reach those people who would not traditionally take up golf. We want to maximise the economic and sporting opportunities for Wales.

Ar lefel weinidogol, mae’r Prif Weinidog, Jenny Randerson a minnau a’r tîm prosiect—Awdurdod Datblygu Cymru, Bwrdd Croeso Cymru a Chyngor Chwaraeon Cymru ynghyd â chyrff eraill—wedi bod yn gweithio i amlhau’r cyfleoedd a ddarperir. Bellach mae gennym lai nag wyth mlynedd i wneud y gorau o Gwpan Ryder fel cyfle ym myd chwaraeon a busnes. Un o’n prif flaenoriaethau yw cynyddu’r nifer sy’n chwarae golff ac ehangu cyfleusterau golff drwy Gymru, yn enwedig y rhai hynny sy’n agos at gwrs Cwpan Ryder yn y Celtic Manor. Byddwn yn cydweithio ag ysgolion, i geisio cael pobl ifanc i chwarae’r gêm, ac yn ceisio cyrraedd ardaloedd anhraddodiadol er mwyn denu’r bobl hynny na fyddent yn draddodiadol yn chwarae golff. Yr ydym am amlhau’r cyfleoedd economaidd a’r cyfleoedd ym myd chwaraeon i Gymru.

Jonathan Morgan spoken in English p. 11

Jonathan Morgan siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 11

You rightly said that the Ryder Cup presents excellent opportunities for Wales, and that it is the latest in a long line of international events that have been staged in Wales. How many people can we expect to attract to Wales during the tournament? What plans do you have for developing tourism in the future beyond the Ryder Cup, to ensure that Wales remains firmly on the map in that regard?

Dywedasoch yn gywir fod Cwpan Ryder yn rhoi cyfleoedd ardderchog i Gymru, ac mai dyma’r diweddaraf mewn rhestr hir o ddigwyddiadau rhyngwladol i gael ei gynnal yng Nghymru. Faint o bobl gallwn ddisgwyl eu denu i Gymru yn ystod y bencampwriaeth? Pa gynlluniau sydd gennych i ddatblygu twristiaeth yn y dyfodol yn dilyn Cwpan Ryder, i sicrhau bod Cymru yn parhau ar y map yn hynny o beth?

Andrew Davies spoken in English p. 12

Andrew Davies siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 12

I am working with my colleagues to use the Ryder Cup and other events to develop a national events strategy. That strategy will incorporate the events that we already know about and will be a framework to enable us to bid for other major sporting events. One of the biggest success stories of last year was getting sponsorship for what was then known as the Network Q Rally, and is now known as the Wales Rally GB. Over eight years that will be another opportunity to promote Wales as a tourist destination and as a centre for sporting excellence. As I said in my reply to Christine Chapman, we aim to maximise those opportunities.

Yr wyf yn gweithio gyda’m cyd-Aelodau i ddefnyddio Cwpan Ryder a digwyddiadau eraill i ddatblygu strategaeth digwyddiadau genedlaethol. Bydd y strategaeth yn cynnwys y digwyddiadau yr ydym eisoes yn gwybod amdanynt a bydd yn fframwaith inni wneud cais am chwaraeon eraill. Un o lwyddiannau mwyaf y flwyddyn ddiwethaf oedd cael nawdd ar gyfer yr hyn a elwid gynt yn Rali Network Q ond a adwaenir yn awr fel Rali Cymru Prydain Fawr. Dros wyth mlynedd bydd hynny’n gyfle arall i hybu Cymru fel cyrchfan twristiaid ac fel canolfan ragoriaeth mewn chwaraeon. Fel y dywedais yn fy ateb i Christine Chapman yr ydym yn anelu at fanteisio i’r eithaf ar y cyfleoedd hynny.

We will consider what happened in Spain and what will happen in the other countries that will host the Ryder Cup in the coming years, in order that we can maximise visitor numbers. When I visited Dublin last October I went to the K Club, which will host the Ryder Cup in a few years’ time. We will consider ways in which we can work together to maximise the impact of the Ryder Cup for them and us. I will try to obtain an estimate of the visitor figures, and I will write to you.

Byddwn yn ystyried beth a ddigwyddodd yn Sbaen a beth fydd yn digwydd mewn gwledydd eraill a fydd yn cynnal Cwpan Ryder yn y blynyddoedd sydd i ddod, er mwyn denu cymaint â phosibl o ymwelwyr. Pan ymwelais â Dulyn fis Hydref diwethaf, euthum i Glwb K a fydd yn cynnal Cwpan Ryder mewn ychydig o flynyddoedd. Byddwn yn ystyried ffyrdd o gydweithio er mwyn iddynt hwy a ninnau fanteisio i’r eithaf ar effaith Cwpan Ryder. Ceisiaf gael amcangyfrif o nifer yr ymwelwyr, ac ysgrifennaf atoch.

Jocelyn Davies spoken in English p. 12

Jocelyn Davies siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 12

How much money will you commit to ensure that hotels in south Wales can begin to market themselves now? Those hotels are competing with large hotel chains in the Bristol area for the guests that the Ryder Cup will attract.

Faint o arian y byddwch yn ei ymrwymo er mwyn sicrhau bod gwestai yn ne Cymru yn gallu marchnata eu hunain yn awr? Mae’r gwestai hynny yn cystadlu â chwmnïau gwestai mawrion yn ardal Bryste am y gwesteion y bydd Cwpan Ryder yn eu denu.

Andrew Davies spoken in English p. 12

Andrew Davies siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 12

We are working on that matter with the Wales Tourist Board and the Welsh Development Agency. The Ryder Cup is a once in a lifetime opportunity. We will work with our agencies, the private sector, and the hotel chains and companies to maximise the opportunities. One of the major opportunities that the Ryder Cup provides is that which you mentioned.

Yr ydym yn cydweithio ar y mater hwnnw gyda Bwrdd Croeso Cymru ac Awdurdod Datblygu Cymru. Mae Cwpan Ryder yn gyfle unwaith mewn oes. Byddwn yn cydweithio â’n hasiantaethau, y sector preifat, a chwmnïau gwestai i fanteisio i’r eithaf ar y cyfleoedd. Un o’r prif gyfleoedd y mae Cwpan Ryder yn ei ddarparu yw’r un y soniasoch chi amdano.

Cwestiynau ar Gyllid i’r Gweinidog Cyllid

Questions on Finance to the Finance Minister

System Gyfrifiaduron y Cynulliad

The Assembly’s Computer System

Q1 Phil Williams spoken in English p. 13

C1 Phil Williams siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 13

How much has the Assembly Government spent to improve the Assembly’s computer system? (OAQ22201)

Faint y mae Llywodraeth y Cynulliad wedi’i wario ar wella system gyfrifiaduron y Cynulliad? (OAQ22201)

Edwina Hart The Finance Minister spoken in English p. 13

Edwina Hart Y Gweinidog Cyllid siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 13

There are no separate budgets for improvements to the computer systems delivered to the Assembly under the OSIRIS contract. The increased facilities and improvements provided at the time that the Assembly was established were included in the revised standard user charge agreed with Siemens Business Services at that time.

Nid oes cyllidebau ar wahân ar gyfer gwella’r systemau cyfrifiaduron a gyflwynwyd i’r Cynulliad o dan gontract OSIRIS. Cafodd y cyfleusterau cynyddol a’r gwelliannau a ddarparwyd adeg sefydlu’r Cynulliad eu cynnwys yn y tâl safonol diwygiedig ar gyfer defnyddwyr a gytunwyd â Siemens Business Services ar yr adeg honno.

Phil Williams spoken in English p. 13

Phil Williams siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 13

Recently, both the Minister for Rural Affairs and the Minister for Economic Development have blamed computers for problems that have embarrassed the Government. I have had a passionate love affair with computers ever since I first used one in 1957. Do you agree that the computer equipment that you have funded is adequate for the work required? Do you agree that problems—such as the misleading information from the Welsh European Funding Office database, or the lack of any link between the WEFO database and the WEFO website—are unacceptable faults in how computers are programmed and used, and that the problems are not faults in our computer system?

Yn ddiweddar, mae’r Gweinidog dros Faterion Gwledig a’r Gweinidog dros Ddatblygu Economaidd wedi beio cyfrifiaduron am broblemau a achosodd embaras i’r Llywodraeth. Syrthiais mewn cariad â chyfrifiaduron ers imi ddefnyddio un am y tro cyntaf yn 1957. A gytunwch fod yr offer cyfrifiadurol a ariennwyd gennych yn ddigonol ar gyfer y gwaith? A gytunwch fod problemau—fel y wybodaeth gamarweiniol o gronfa ddata Swyddfa Cyllid Ewropeaidd Cymru, neu’r diffyg cyswllt rhwng cronfa ddata WEFO a gwefan WEFO—yn ddiffygion annerbyniol yn y ffordd y caiff cyfrifiaduron eu rhaglennu a’u defnyddio, ac nad diffygion yn ein system gyfrifiaduron mohonynt?

Edwina Hart spoken in English p. 13

Edwina Hart siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 13

I have not had a love affair with computers myself, Phil. However, I felt like I had when I telephone a call centre and press number 2 and reached number 4. A representative of the centre later told me that they were sorry that they sent me a letter, but that it was the computer’s fault. I replied that it was not the computer’s fault but that of the person who had programmed the computer. That is my feeling about systems. Mistakes occur in large organisations such as the Assembly; accidents can happen, or the right data is not put in. We should get a sense of perspective on those issues. You cannot genuinely blame the system, but you can blame the people who work the system.

Nid wyf wedi syrthio mewn cariad â chyfrifiaduron fy hun, Phil. Fodd bynnag, teimlais felly pan ffoniais ganolfan alwadau, a phwyso rhif 2 a chyrraedd rhif 4. Cefais fy hysbysu gan gynrychiolydd o’r ganolfan yn ddiweddarach bod yn ddrwg ganddynt eu bod wedi anfon llythyr ataf, ond mai bai’r cyfrifiadur oedd hynny. Dywedais nad bai’r cyfrifiadur oedd hynny ond bai’r person a fu’n rhaglennu’r cyfrifiadur. Dyna fy nheimlad i am systemau. Mae camgymeriadau’n digwydd mewn sefydliadau mawr fel y Cynulliad; gall damweiniau ddigwydd, neu gall y data anghywir gael ei gofnodi. Dylem roi y materion hyn mewn persbectif. Ni allwch feio’r system, ond gallwch feio’r bobl sy’n gweithio’r system.

David Ian Jones spoken in English p. 14

David Ian Jones siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 14

Do you agree that there is no point in spending any more money on the Assembly’s current computer system? The cost of what is generally regarded as a sub-standard system has rocketed from an initial £20 million to around £64 million. Have you fully taken on board the criticisms that were voiced by the Auditor General for Wales, and can we take it that the mistakes that were made will not be repeated in relation to the new Merlin system?

A gytunwch nad oes unrhyw ddiben gwario mwy o arian ar system gyfrifiaduron bresennol y Cynulliad? Mae cost y system, a ystyrir fel system sy’n is na’r safon yn gyffredinol, wedi saethu o’r £20 miliwn gwreiddiol i oddeutu £64 miliwn. A ydych wedi llwyr ystyried y feirniadaeth gan Archwilydd Cyffredinol Cymru, ac a allwn dybio na chaiff y camgymeriadau a wnaethpwyd eu hailadrodd mewn perthynas â’r system Merlin newydd.

Edwina Hart spoken in English p. 14

Edwina Hart siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 14

All steps will be taken in order to ensure that the arrangements for Merlin will be excellent in terms of our requirements and in terms of cost outcome. It is important to recognise that Members and Government officials are always asking for additions to the system. We know that Members have had problems with the systems in their offices, and have wanted changes to be made. That obviously adds to the cost.

Cymerir pob cam i sicrhau y rhoddir trefniadau ardderchog ar waith ar gyfer Merlin yn nhermau ein gofynion ac yn nhermau canlyniadau cost. Mae’n bwysig cydnabod bod Aelodau a swyddogion y Llywodraeth bob amser yn gofyn am ychwanegiadau newydd i’r system. Gwyddom i Aelodau wynebu problemau gyda’r systemau yn eu swyddfeydd, a’u bod wedi gofyn am newidiadau. Mae hynny yn amlwg yn ychwanegu at y gost.

Prif Grŵp Gwariant ar gyfer Llywodraeth Leol

Local Government Main Expenditure Group

Q2 Alun Cairns spoken in English p. 14

C2 Alun Cairns siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 14

Would the Minister make a statement on any increase in funding to the Assembly’s local government main expenditure group for 2003-04? (OAQ22245)

A wnaiff y Gweinidog ddatganiad ar unrhyw gynnydd yn yr arian a roddir ym mhrif grŵp gwariant y Cynulliad ar gyfer llywodraeth leol yn 2003-04? (OAQ22245)

Edwina Hart spoken in English p. 14

Edwina Hart siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 14

I refer you to the Official Record of 6 November 2002 for a transcript of my statement to Plenary on the final budget.

Fe’ch cyfeiriaf at y Cofnod Swyddogol dyddiedig 6 Tachwedd 2002 ar gyfer trawsgrifiad o’m datganiad ar y gyllideb derfynol i’r Cyfarfod Llawn.

Alun Cairns spoken in English p. 14

Alun Cairns siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 14

By the Minister’s own definition, the local government settlement has been generous. Therefore, can she state why Labour-controlled local authorities, primarily, are proposing inflation-busting council tax increases in excess of 10 per cent? Why is that the case, bearing in mind that the settlement, as she has said, is generous? What advice can she offer pensioners who are on fixed incomes and who will be forced to pay these increased rates?

Fel y dywedodd y Gweinidog ei hun, bu’r setliad llywodraeth leol yn hael. Felly, a all y Gweinidog nodi pam mae awdurdodau lleol, yn bennaf o dan reolaeth y Blaid Lafur, yn argymell cynyddu’r dreth gyngor yn uwch na chwyddiant ac yn fwy na 10 y cant? Pam mae hynny’n digwydd, o ystyried bod y setliad, fel y dywedodd, yn un hael? Pa gyngor y gall y Gweinidog ei gynnig i bensiynwyr sydd ar incwm sefydlog ac a gaiff eu gorfodi i dalu’r cyfraddau uwch hyn?

Edwina Hart spoken in English p. 15

Edwina Hart siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 15

I have made it clear that council taxes are a matter for individual local authorities. The settlement across Wales has been generous. There are difficulties in some local authority areas, and some authorities have been successful in delivering additional services, which they want to carry on delivering. This will be a matter for the electorate to consider in the local authority elections next year.

Eglurais mai mater i awdurdodau lleol unigol yw trethi cyngor. Bu’r setliad ar draws Cymru yn un hael. Mae rhai ardaloedd awdurdodau lleol yn wynebu anawsterau, a bu rhai awdurdodau’n llwyddiannus wrth ddarparu gwasanaethau ychwanegol, ac maent yn dymuno parhau i’w darparu. Bydd hwn yn fater i’w ystyried gan yr etholwyr yn etholiadau awdurdodau lleol y flwyddyn nesaf.

Janet Ryder spoken in English p. 15

Janet Ryder siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 15

Local authorities must often face what they term ‘new burdens’. One such burden is the need to dedicate as much as one or two days a week of senior officers’ time to supporting the establishment and development of the new local health boards. When will you assess the financial implications of that? When will you account for that in the health service’s restructuring costs and recompense local authorities accordingly?

Yn aml, rhaid i awdurdodau lleol wynebu yr hyn a elwir yn ‘feichiau newydd’. Un o’r beichiau hyn yw’r angen i glustnodi hyd at un neu ddau ddiwrnod yr wythnos o amser uwch swyddogion i gynorthwyo’r broses o sefydlu a datblygu byrddau iechyd lleol newydd. Pryd byddwch yn asesu goblygiadau ariannol y broses honno? Pryd byddwch yn ystyried hynny yng nghostau ailstrwythuro’r gwasanaeth iechyd ac yn ad-dalu awdurdodau lleol yn unol â hynny?

Edwina Hart spoken in English p. 15

Edwina Hart siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 15

We must recognise that the political leadership in local authorities has, in the main, been pleased with the allocation of their officers’ time to the local health boards. Local authorities consider it an important part of the health and social care agenda. There are ongoing cost issues that the Welsh Local Government Association raises with me, and I take them into account.

Rhaid inni gydnabod bod arweinyddiaeth wleidyddol awdurdodau lleol, yn gyffredinol, wedi croesawu’r broses o ddyrannu amser eu swyddogion i fyrddau iechyd lleol. Mae awdurdodau lleol yn ystyried hyn yn rhan bwysig o’u hagenda iechyd a gofal cymdeithasol. Mae materion parhaus yn ymwneud â chostau y mae Cymdeithas Llywodraeth Leol Cymru yn eu codi gyda mi, ac yr wyf yn eu hystyried.

Portffolio Llywodraeth Leol a Chymunedau

Local Government and Communities Portfolio

Q3 Janice Gregory spoken in English p. 15

C3 Janice Gregory siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 15

Will the Minister make a statement on the impact that the latest Assembly budget has had on the budget for the local government and communities portfolio? (OAQ22206)

A wnaiff y Gweinidog ddatganiad ar effaith cyllideb ddiweddaraf y Cynulliad ar y gyllideb ar gyfer portffolio llywodraeth leol a chymunedau? (OAQ22206)

Edwina Hart spoken in English p. 15

Edwina Hart siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 15

The communities main expenditure group received additional funding of £51.3 million and, as you will be aware, Janice, the local government MEG was £47.23 million.

Derbyniodd y prif grŵp gwariant ar gyfer cymunedau gyllid ychwanegol o £51.3 miliwn, ac fel y gwyddoch, Janice, £47.23 miliwn oedd MEG llywodraeth leol.

Janice Gregory spoken in English p. 15

Janice Gregory siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 15

Will you confirm the Assembly Government’s continued commitment to working in partnership with local government on budget planning matters and that the Government will adopt a similar partnership approach to the budget planning round for 2004-05?

A allwch gadarnhau ymrwymiad parhaus Llywodraeth y Cynulliad i weithio mewn partneriaeth â llywodraeth leol ar faterion cynllunio’r gyllideb ac y bydd y Llywodraeth yn mabwysiadu ymagwedd o weithio mewn partneriaeth debyg ar gyfer cylch cynllunio’r gyllideb yn 2004-05?

Edwina Hart spoken in English p. 16

Edwina Hart siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 16

I am pleased to be able to confirm that. Local government is an important partner, and it needs good financial settlements, which it has received over the last three years. I hope that it will continue to receive such good settlements so that services can be funded properly. I assure local government that, with the support of Members across the Assembly, it will have the necessary funds to deliver services.

Mae’n bleser gennyf allu cadarnhau hynny. Mae llywodraeth leol yn bartner pwysig, ac mae angen setliadau ariannol da arni; cafodd hynny dros y tair blynedd ddiwethaf. Gobeithiaf y bydd yn parhau i gael setliadau da o’r fath er mwyn gallu ariannu gwasanaethau’n gywir. Gallaf sicrhau llywodraeth leol, gyda chymorth Aelodau ar draws y Cynulliad, y caiff y cyllid angenrheidiol i gyflwyno gwasanaethau.

William Graham spoken in English p. 16

William Graham siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 16

Have you identified the amount that each local authority must spend to meet the Assembly administration targets that allow local authorities to qualify for performance incentive grants? How have you accounted for that in your budget proposals?

A ydych wedi nodi’r swm y mae’n rhaid i bob awdurdod lleol ei wario er mwyn cwrdd â thargedau gweinyddu’r Cynulliad sy’n caniatáu i awdurdodau lleol fod yn gymwys ar gyfer grantiau cymhelliant yn gysylltiedig â pherfformiad? Sut y cyfrifwyd am hynny yn eich argymhellion ar gyfer y gyllideb?

Edwina Hart spoken in English p. 16

Edwina Hart siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 16

We are pleased with how the performance incentive grants are working. Our initial assessments show that local authorities are meeting their targets. I will provide further information on how these are being met and when payments are made.

Yr ydym yn hapus â sut y mae’r grantiau cymhelliant yn gysylltiedig â pherfformiad yn gweithio. Dengys ein hasesiadau cychwynnol bod awdurdodau lleol yn cwrdd â’u targedau. Byddaf yn rhoi gwybodaeth bellach ar sut y mae’r rhain yn cael eu diwallu a phryd y gwneir taliadau.

Janet Davies spoken in English p. 16

Janet Davies siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 16

You mentioned partnership with local government. Will your budget be flexible enough to allow Bridgend County Borough Council to fund a new primary school for Pen-y-fai, given that the school is currently made up of portakabins, and is far too small?

Soniasoch am bartneriaeth gyda llywodraeth leol. A fydd eich cyllideb yn ddigon hyblyg i ganiatáu i Gyngor Bwrdeistref Sirol Pen-y-bont ar Ogwr ariannu ysgol gynradd newydd ar gyfer Pen-y-fai, o ystyried bod yr ysgol ar hyn o bryd yn cael ei rhedeg mewn cabanau dros dro, ac yn llawer rhy fach?

Edwina Hart spoken in English p. 16

Edwina Hart siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 16

Bridgend County Borough Council received a good settlement this year. It is an excellent authority, and I had the pleasure of visiting an innovative project in Betws yesterday. The council has taken good decisions in its allocation of funding, and I am certain that it will want to resolve issues regarding the school.

Cafodd Cyngor Bwrdeistref Sirol Pen-y-bont ar Ogwr setliad da eleni. Mae’n awdurdod ardderchog, a chefais y fraint o ymweld â phrosiect arloesol ym Metws ddoe. Mae’r cyngor wedi gwneud penderfyniadau da yn nhermau dyrannu cyllid, ac yr wyf yn siŵr y bydd am ddatrys materion sy’n ymwneud â’r ysgol.

‘Iaith Pawb’

C4 Owen John Thomas siaradwyd yn Gymraeg t. 17

Q4 Owen John Thomas spoken in Welsh p. 17

A oes gan y Gweinidog unrhyw gynlluniau i gynyddu cyllideb y portffolio diwylliant, chwaraeon a’r Gymraeg, yn benodol er mwyn ariannu’r cynigion a amlinellir yn ‘Iaith Pawb’? (OAQ22247)

Does the Minister have any plans to increase the budget of the culture, sport and Welsh language portfolio, specifically for funding the proposals detailed in ‘Iaith Pawb’? (OAQ22247)

Edwina Hart spoken in English p. 17

Edwina Hart siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 17

The Minister for Culture, Sport and the Welsh Language is responsible for allocations within her main expenditure group and has earmarked £13.5 million in 2003-04 to fund proposals in ‘Iaith Pawb’.

Y Gweinidog dros Ddiwylliant, Chwaraeon a’r Gymraeg sy’n gyfrifol am ddyraniadau o fewn ei phrif grŵp gwariant ac mae wedi dyrannu £13.5 miliwn yn 2003-04 er mwyn ariannu’r cynigion yn ‘Iaith Pawb’.

Owen John Thomas siaradwyd yn Gymraeg t. 17

Owen John Thomas spoken in Welsh p. 17

A yw’r arian a roesoch yn y gyllideb ddiwylliant yn cynnwys elfen ar gyfer cau’r bwlch cyflog rhwng athrawon addysg feithrin yn y sector gwirfoddol a’r rhai yn y sector gwladol?

Does the money that you allocated for the culture budget contain an element for closing the pay gap between nursery school teachers in the voluntary sector and those in the state sector?

Edwina Hart spoken in English p. 17

Edwina Hart siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 17

That issue comes under the Minister for Culture’s portfolio. I will arrange for her to answer that question.

Cwmpesir y mater hwnnw ym mhortffolio’r Gweinidog dros Ddiwylliant. Trefnaf iddi hi ateb y cwestiwn hwnnw.

Eleanor Burnham spoken in English p. 17

Eleanor Burnham siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 17

The Minister for Culture has wisely said that setting a rigid timetable for ‘Iaith Pawb’ policies is unrealistic, as further research and indicators will be available in the future. If ‘Iaith Pawb’ targets are further developed, for instance, once census results are available, can you assure us that you will consult with the appropriate Ministers regarding any changes to the budget that may be required?

Dywedodd y Gweinidog dros Ddiwylliant yn ddoeth, bod pennu amserlen gaeth ar gyfer polisïau ‘Iaith Pawb’ yn afrealistig, gan y bydd ymchwil a dangosyddion pellach ar gael yn y dyfodol. Os caiff targedau ‘Iaith Pawb’ eu datblygu ymhellach, er enghraifft, pan fydd canlyniadau’r cyfrifiad ar gael, a allwch ein sicrhau y byddwch yn ymgynghori â’r Gweinidogion priodol yn nhermau unrhyw newidiadau y gallai fod eu hangen i’r gyllideb?

Edwina Hart spoken in English p. 17

Edwina Hart siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 17

It will be for whoever is the Minister for Culture then to make representations on that to the Finance Minister—whoever that may be—during the next budget planning round.

Rôl y Gweinidog dros Ddiwylliant, pwy bynnag y bo, fydd cyflwyno sylwadau i’r Gweinidog Cyllid—pwy bynnag y bo—yn ystod y cylch cynllunio’r gyllideb nesaf.

Systemau TGCh Adrannau Llywodraeth y Cynulliad

ICT Systems in Assembly Government Departments

C5 Elin Jones siaradwyd yn Gymraeg t. 17

Q5 Elin Jones spoken in Welsh p. 17

A yw’r Gweinidog wedi dyrannu arian ar wahân o fewn meysydd cyllideb y Cynulliad yn benodol er mwyn gwella systemau technoleg gwybodaeth a chyfathrebu o fewn adrannau Llywodraeth y Cynulliad? (OAQ22195)

Has the Minister allocated separate funding within the Assembly’s budget areas specifically to improve information and communications technology systems in Assembly Government departments? (OAQ22195)

Edwina Hart spoken in English p. 18

Edwina Hart siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 18

As I stated in answer to Phil Williams earlier, there are no separate budgets for specific improvements to the computer systems within Assembly Government departments. However, separate budgets are provided for projects that use IT solutions to deliver improvements to Assembly Government systems and processes. Examples would be the replacement finance system, a planned new personnel management system, the joint initiative for Government services across Wales project, and e-commerce pilot schemes. The total budget for those projects in 2002-03 was £2.136 million. That figure includes not only new projects but the ongoing maintenance costs of systems delivered through past projects.

Fel y nodais yn fy ateb i Phil Williams yn gynharach, nid oes unrhyw gyllidebau ar wahân ar gael ar gyfer gwelliannau penodol i’r systemau cyfrifiadurol o fewn adrannau Llywodraeth y Cynulliad. Fodd bynnag, darperir cyllidebau ar wahân ar gyfer prosiectau sy’n defnyddio atebion TG ar gyfer gwella systemau a phrosesau Llywodraeth y Cynulliad. Byddai enghreifftiau yn cynnwys y system gyllid newydd, y system rheoli personél newydd arfaethedig, prosiect menter ar y cyd ar gyfer gwasanaethau’r Llywodraeth ar draws Cymru, a chynlluniau peilot e-fasnach. Cyfanswm y gyllideb ar gyfer y prosiectau hynny yn 2002-03 oedd £2.136 miliwn. Mae’r ffigur hwnnw nid yn unig yn cynnwys prosiectau newydd ond hefyd costau cynnal a chadw parhaus y systemau a gyflwynwyd drwy brosiectau yn y gorffennol.

Elin Jones spoken in English p. 18

Elin Jones siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 18

Given your earlier answer to Phil Williams on Ministers and computer systems, do you agree that good workmen never blame their tools and, if you do, does that make Mike German a bad workman?

O ystyried eich ateb cynharach i Phil Williams ar Weinidogion a systemau cyfrifiadurol, a gytunwch nad yw saer da yn gweld bai ar ei arfau, ac os cytunwch â hynny, a yw hynny’n gwneud Mike German yn saer gwael?

Edwina Hart spoken in English p. 18

Edwina Hart siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 18

You should never blame your tools. It is unfortunate that those issues arose, and I am sorry that the problems occurred. I hope that matters will be rectified.

Ni ddylid byth rhoi’r bai ar eich arfau. Mae’n anffodus bod y materion hynny wedi codi, ac mae’n ddrwg gennyf i’r problemau ddigwydd. Gobeithiaf y caiff y materion eu datrys.

Nick Bourne spoken in English p. 18

Nick Bourne siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 18

We are pleased that you have been able to assure Phil Williams that his partner in this passionate affair—the computer system—has been totally loyal and trustworthy, and that it is not to blame for the failings that we have experienced. You have just restated that point in your comments on bad workmen blaming their tools. Is it not important that you pass that message on to the First Minister so that he can take the appropriate remedial action against Ministers German and Davies, who are doing just that?

Yr ydym yn falch ichi allu sicrhau Phil Williams bod ei bartner yn y berthynas gariadus hon—y system gyfrifiaduron—wedi bod yn hollol ffyddlon a dibynadwy, ac nid arni hi mae’r bai am y methiannau a brofwyd gennym. Yr ydych newydd ailddatgan y pwynt hwnnw yn eich sylwadau ar seiri gwael sy’n rhoi’r bai ar eu harfau. Onid yw’n bwysig ichi drosglwyddo’r neges honno i’r Prif Weinidog er mwyn iddo allu cymryd y camau adferol priodol yn erbyn y Gweinidogion German a Davies, sy’n gwneud hynny’n union?

Edwina Hart spoken in English p. 18

Edwina Hart siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 18

The First Minister will have heard your comments. I am trying to make clear that you do not blame the system. Ultimately, it is who inputs into the system that is important. There are sometimes technical problems and other issues with new projects. We all experience teething problems. We need only look at the public sector, and even the private sector, to see that, when new systems come in, problems can result. This is not an ideal world. As technology and innovation move on, there are problems. We must accept that to a degree, but try to minimise the problems as much as we can.

Bydd y Prif Weinidog wedi clywed eich sylwadau. Yr wyf yn ceisio egluro nad ydych yn beio’r system. Yn y pen draw, yr hyn sy’n bwysig yw pwy sy’n rhoi mewnbwn i’r system. Weithiau, ceir problemau technegol a materion eraill gyda phrosiectau newydd. Yr ydym oll yn profi problemau cychwynnol. Nid oes ond angen inni edrych ar y sector cyhoeddus, a hyd yn oed y sector preifat, i weld bod sefydlu systemau newydd yn gallu arwain at broblemau. Nid byd delfrydol yw hwn. Wrth i dechnoleg a dyfeisgarwch ddatblygu, ceir problemau. Rhaid inni dderbyn hynny, i ryw raddau, ond ceisio lleihau’r problemau cymaint ag y gallwn.

Amddifadedd Cymdeithasol yng Nghymru

Social Deprivation in Wales

Q6 Janice Gregory spoken in English p. 19

C6 Janice Gregory siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 19

How will the Minister’s latest Assembly budget help tackle social deprivation in Wales? (OAQ22208)

Sut y bydd cyllideb ddiweddaraf y Gweinidog yn helpu i fynd i’r afael ag amddifadedd cymdeithasol yng Nghymru? (OAQ22208)

Edwina Hart spoken in English p. 19

Edwina Hart siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 19

I hope that my latest Assembly budget allows for a co-ordinated, integrated and flexible approach to tackling social deprivation and community regeneration across Wales. For example, under the budget I have established the community facilities and activities programme, an all-Wales source of funding for community and voluntary groups. The programme is designed to improve community facilities and promote community activities. As you will be aware, Janice, that arose directly from comments that you made in a short debate. It is flexible, and is designed to complement and build on the principles of Communities First. Also, officials are developing a scheme to support a variety of community development initiatives.

Gobeithiaf fod fy nghyllideb ddiweddaraf i’r Cynulliad yn caniatáu ymagwedd gydlynol, integredig a hyblyg tuag at y broses o fynd i’r afael ag amddifadedd cymdeithasol ac adfywio cymdeithasol ar draws Cymru. Er enghraifft, o dan y gyllideb yr wyf wedi sefydlu’r rhaglen cyfleusterau a gweithgareddau cymunedol, sef ffynhonnell gyllid ar gyfer grwpiau cymunedol a gwirfoddol ar draws Cymru. Cynlluniwyd y rhaglen er mwyn gwella cyfleusterau cymunedol a hyrwyddo gweithgareddau cymunedol. Fel y gwyddoch, Janice, cododd hyn yn uniongyrchol o sylwadau a wnaethpwyd gennych mewn dadl fer. Mae’n hyblyg, a chafodd ei chynllunio i gyd-fynd ag egwyddorion Cymunedau yn Gyntaf ac adeiladu arnynt. Hefyd, mae swyddogion yn datblygu cynllun i gefnogi amrywiaeth o fentrau datblygu cymunedol.

Janice Gregory spoken in English p. 19

Janice Gregory siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 19

Thank you for that full response, Minister. I thank you for initiating that programme—it has been of great benefit. I thank you again for visiting Betws in my constituency yesterday, where you saw for yourself what regeneration means to the people who live there. Will you join me in paying tribute to the people of Betws, especially those in the tenants and residents association, for their active role in the regeneration of their community? I hope that you will join me—[Interruption.]

Diolch ichi am yr ymateb llawn hwnnw, Weinidog. Diolchaf ichi am roi cychwyn ar y rhaglen honno—bu o fudd mawr. Diolchaf ichi eto am ymweld â Betws yn fy etholaeth i ddoe, lle y gwelsoch yr hyn y mae adfywio yn ei olygu i’r bobl sy’n byw yno. A ymunwch â mi i dalu teyrnged i bobl Betws, yn enwedig y rhai yn y gymdeithas tenantiaid a thrigolion, am eu rhan weithredol yn y broses o adfywio eu cymuned? Gobeithiaf yr ymunwch â mi—[Torri ar draws.]

Dafydd Elis-Thomas The Presiding Officer spoken in English p. 20

Dafydd Elis-Thomas Y Llywydd siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 20

Order. I need no assistance in presiding in this Chamber.

Trefn. Nid oes angen cymorth arnaf i lywyddu yn y Siambr hon.

Janice Gregory spoken in English p. 20

Janice Gregory siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 20

I am delighted, Minister, that the regeneration in my constituency is of great benefit to my constituents.

Yr wyf yn falch, Weinidog, bod y broses adfywio yn fy etholaeth o fudd mawr i’m hetholwyr.

Edwina Hart spoken in English p. 20

Edwina Hart siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 20

It was a real pleasure to visit Betws yesterday and to meet the chair of the tenants’ association, which has taken an active role in developing the estate there. I am sure that Members will be interested to know that the chair told me that tenants had previously paid around £25 a week for fuel costs because of the poor quality of the housing. That amount has now reduced to £5 a week because the houses now meet the housing quality standard, which we introduced in Wales. That is positive for a community that has begun to love itself; people now want to move back into it.

Yr oedd yn bleser gwirioneddol ymweld â Betws ddoe a chwrdd â chadeirydd y gymdeithas tenantiaid, sydd wedi chwarae rhan weithredol yn y broses o ddatblygu’r ystad yno. Yr wyf yn siŵr y bydd Aelodau am wybod i’r cadeirydd fy hysbysu bod tenantiaid yn arfer talu tua £25 yr wythnos am gostau tanwydd oherwydd ansawdd gwael y tai. Bellach, mae’r swm hwnnw wedi gostwng i £5 yr wythnos oherwydd bod y tai bellach yn cwrdd â’r safon ansawdd tai, a gyflwynwyd gennym yng Nghymru. Mae hwnnw’n beth positif i gymuned sydd wedi dechrau ymfalchïo ynddi hi ei hun; bellach, mae pobl am symud yn ôl i fyw yno.

Brian Hancock spoken in English p. 20

Brian Hancock siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 20

I have written to you about the Upper Sirhowy valley partnership, which has been formed in a Communities First ward in my constituency. That partnership has learned that another group has been able to tap into Communities First funding, which it was not told about. Will you consider this to ensure that partnerships are aware of such schemes so that priorities can be addressed and communities can be given what they need?

Ysgrifennais atoch ynghylch partneriaeth cwm Sirhywi Uchaf, a sefydlwyd yn un o’r wardiau Cymunedau yn Gyntaf yn fy etholaeth i. Mae’r bartneriaeth honno wedi canfod bod grŵp arall wedi gallu defnyddio cyllid Cymunedau yn Gyntaf, nad oedd yn ymwybodol ohono. A allwch ystyried hyn er mwyn sicrhau bod partneriaethau’n ymwybodol o gynlluniau o’r fath fel y gellir mynd i’r afael â blaenoriaethau a rhoi’r hyn sydd ei angen arnynt i gymunedau?

Edwina Hart spoken in English p. 20

Edwina Hart siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 20

Several issues relating to this matter have been raised with me recently. I will certainly consider them. Other Members have expressed concerns about existing groups. I assure you that when I review those issues I will take your point into account.

Codwyd sawl mater sy’n gysylltiedig â hyn gyda mi yn ddiweddar. Byddaf yn sicr yn eu hystyried. Mae Aelodau eraill wedi mynegi pryderon ynghylch grwpiau sydd eisoes yn bodoli. Gallaf eich sicrhau y byddaf yn ystyried eich pwynt pan fyddaf yn adolygu’r materion hynny.

David Melding spoken in English p. 20

David Melding siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 20

Do you agree that programmes to tackle social deprivation are important and are best funded by central Government so that the taxpayer funds them? Do you also agree that we should not rely on knobbling the local government formula so that certain council tax payers end up paying a disproportionate amount?

A gytunwch fod rhaglenni sy’n mynd i’r afael ag amddifadedd cymdeithasol yn bwysig ac mai’r ffordd orau o’u hariannu yw drwy Lywodraeth ganolog er mwyn sicrhau mai’r trethdalwr sy’n eu hariannu? A gytunwch hefyd na ddylem ddibynnu ar ‘noblo’r fformiwla llywodraeth leol fel bod pobl benodol sy’n talu’r dreth gyngor yn talu swm anghyfrannol?

Edwina Hart spoken in English p. 21

Edwina Hart siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 21

The local government formula is just that. I assume that you are referring to the social deprivation grant, which is outside the formula. As I indicated, that was additional money that the Assembly Government chose to put into local communities in order to assist them.

Dyna yw’r fformiwla llywodraeth leol. Tybiaf eich bod yn cyfeirio at y grant amddifadedd cymdeithasol, sydd y tu allan i’r fformiwla. Fel y nodais, arian ychwanegol oedd hwn y dewisodd Llywodraeth y Cynulliad ei roi i gymunedau lleol i’w cynorthwyo.

Arian Ychwanegol i Heddluoedd Cymru

Additional Funding for Welsh Police Forces

Q7 Owen John Thomas spoken in English p. 21

C7 Owen John Thomas siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 21

Has the Minister had any discussions with the Home Office regarding any additional funding needed by Welsh police forces arising from the firefighters’ dispute? (OAQ22248)

A yw’r Gweinidog wedi cael unrhyw drafodaethau â’r Swyddfa Gartref ynghylch unrhyw arian ychwanegol sydd ei angen ar heddluoedd Cymru yn sgîl anghydfod yr ymladdwyr tân? (OAQ22248)

Edwina Hart spoken in English p. 21

Edwina Hart siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 21

It has been agreed that the Office of the Deputy Prime Minister is responsible for meeting the additional costs of providing emergency fire cover.

Cytunwyd mai Swyddfa’r Dirprwy Brif Weinidog sy’n gyfrifol am dalu’r costau ychwanegol o ddarparu cymorth tân brys mewn argyfwng.

Owen John Thomas spoken in English p. 21

Owen John Thomas siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 21

I do not know whether you share my sympathy with the firefighters in their campaign, but, during the strike, some of our police forces have incurred additional expenditure, for example, in providing escorts to help army personnel to reach the scene of fires and accidents and in assisting on-site. I am glad to hear that you will provide funding to the police. Can you indicate how much you will give them?

Ni wn a ydych yn rhannu fy nghydymdeimlad gydag ymgyrch yr ymladdwyr tân yn eu, ond, yn ystod y streic, mae rhai o’n heddluoedd wedi mynd i gostau ychwanegol, er enghraifft, drwy ddarparu hebryngwyr i helpu’r fyddin i gyrraedd tanau a damweiniau ac i gynorthwyo ar y safle. Yr wyf yn falch o glywed y byddwch yn rhoi mwy o arian i’r heddlu. A allwch roi syniad o faint y byddwch yn ei roi iddynt?

Edwina Hart spoken in English p. 21

Edwina Hart siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 21

I told you that the responsibility for meeting the additional costs of providing emergency fire cover lies with the Office of the Deputy Prime Minister. I do not have to indicate my support for the firefighters: I have been a trade unionist all my life. I am not a new convert to these issues for political gain. If the police require additional resources as a result of the strike, I am sure that the chairs of the police authorities and the chief constables will make the appropriate representations to me, as they meet me regularly.

Dywedais wrthych mai Swyddfa’r Dirprwy Brif Weinidog sy’n gyfrifol am dalu’r costau ychwanegol o ddarparu cymorth tân brys. Nid oes rhaid imi ddatgan fy nghymorth i’r ymladdwyr tân: bûm yn undebwr llafur drwy gydol fy oes. Nid wyf yn cefnogi’r materion hyn yn awr er mwyn sicrhau mantais wleidyddol. Os oes angen adnoddau ychwanegol ar yr heddlu oherwydd y streic, yr wyf yn sicr y bydd cadeiryddion awdurdodau’r heddlu a’r prif gwnstabliaid yn cyflwyno’r sylwadau priodol imi, gan eu bod yn cwrdd â mi yn rheolaidd.

Peter Rogers spoken in English p. 21

Peter Rogers siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 21

On police funding, one issue that highlights the funding problems in north Wales is the increase in national insurance contributions, which will amount to more than £600,000 for the police force. Are representations being made to the Home Office on the serious consequences of this?

O ran ariannu’r heddlu, un mater sy’n amlygu’r problemau ariannu yn y Gogledd yw’r cynnydd mewn cyfraniadau yswiriant gwladol, a fydd yn creu cyfanswm o fwy na £600,000 i’r heddlu. A ydych yn cyflwyno sylwadau i’r Swyddfa Gartref ynglŷn â chanlyniadau difrifol y mater hwn?

Edwina Hart spoken in English p. 22

Edwina Hart siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 22

As I have indicated previously, representations have been made to the Home Office on the nature of the police funding formula in Wales. There are issues for all police force areas in Wales in relation to what they regard as the formula’s inherent unfairness. Those matters are being taken forward.

Fel y soniais o’r blaen, gwnaed sylwadau i’r Swyddfa Gartref ar natur fformiwla ariannu’r heddlu yng Nghymru. Mae materion i bob ardal heddlu yng Nghymru mewn perthynas â’r hyn sydd yn eu barn hwy yn annhegwch cynhenid y fformiwla. Mae’r materion hynny’n cael eu datblygu.

Dafydd Elis-Thomas The Presiding Officer spoken in English p. 22

Dafydd Elis-Thomas Y Llywydd siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 22

Question 8 (OAQ22197) has been transferred for written answer.

Mae Cwestiwn 8 (OAQ22197) wedi’i drosglwyddo ar gyfer ateb ysgrifenedig.

Datganiad y DU ynghylch Cyllid Myfyrwyr

UK Statement on Student Finance

Q9 Peter Black spoken in English p. 22

C9 Peter Black siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 22

What are the implications for the Assembly’s overall budget of the statement by the UK Secretary of State for Education and Skills on student finance on 22 January 2003? (OAQ22209)

Beth yw goblygiadau datganiad Ysgrifennydd Gwladol y DU dros Addysg a Sgiliau ynghylch cyllid myfyrwyr ar 22 Ionawr 2003 ar gyfer cyllideb gyffredinol y Cynulliad? (OAQ22209)

Edwina Hart spoken in English p. 22

Edwina Hart siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 22

Discussions are ongoing with the UK Government about the policy and resource implications of devolving student finance to Wales.

Mae trafodaethau yn mynd rhagddynt gyda Llywodraeth y DU ynglŷn â goblygiadau polisi ac adnoddau datganoli cyllid myfyrwyr i Gymru.

Peter Black spoken in English p. 22

Peter Black siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 22

It is premature to make a statement on this issue at this stage, but, if the Government gives additional powers to the Assembly, will you undertake that the Assembly Government will negotiate as hard as possible so that we receive additional finance to help fund that settlement?

Mae’n rhy gynnar i wneud datganiad ar y mater hwn ar hyn o bryd, ond, os rhydd y Llywodraeth bwerau ychwanegol i’r Cynulliad, a sicrhewch y bydd Llywodraeth y Cynulliad yn negodi’n gadarn er mwyn inni gael cyllid ychwanegol i helpu i ariannu’r setliad hwnnw?

Edwina Hart spoken in English p. 22

Edwina Hart siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 22

I need to make it clear that, unless the price is right, we will have to seriously consider our position on this matter.

Mae angen imi esbonio, os na fydd y pris yn gywir, bydd yn rhaid inni roi ystyriaeth ddwys i’n sefyllfa ar y mater hwn.

Symiau Canlyniadol Disgwyliedig

Expected Consequential Sums

Q10 Mick Bates spoken in English p. 22

C10 Mick Bates siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 22

What consequentials is the Minister expecting from the UK Government announcements in the current financial year? (OAQ22211)

Pa symiau canlyniadol y mae’r Gweinidog yn eu disgwyl o gyhoeddiadau Llywodraeth y DU yn y flwyddyn ariannol bresennol? (OAQ22211)

Edwina Hart spoken in English p. 22

Edwina Hart siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 22

The 2002 spending review resulted in Wales receiving consequentials of £251.341 million for 2003-04, £920.502 million for 2004-05 and £1,753.536 million for 2005-06. In addition to those amounts, the Assembly received consequentials of £6.409 million as a result of the pre-budget report in November.

Yn sgîl yr adolygiad o wariant 2002 cafodd Cymru symiau canlyniadol o £251.341 miliwn ar gyfer 2003-04, £920.502 miliwn ar gyfer 2004-05 a £1,753.536 miliwn ar gyfer 2005-06. Yn ogystal â’r symiau hynny, cafodd y Cynulliad symiau canlyniadol o £6.409 miliwn o ganlyniad i’r adroddiad rhag-gyllidebol ym mis Tachwedd.

Mick Bates spoken in English p. 23

Mick Bates siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 23

Given that John Prescott seems to be altering firefighters’ pay and conditions, will we receive consequentials to enable local authorities to take care of any pay increase?

Mae’n ymddangos bod John Prescott yn newid cyflogau ac amodau ymladdwyr tân, a fyddwn yn derbyn symiau canlyniadol er mwyn galluogi awdurdodau lleol i ddelio ag unrhyw godiadau cyflog?

Edwina Hart spoken in English p. 23

Edwina Hart siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 23

I have made the appropriate representations concerning those issues to the appropriate Westminster Ministers. Those issues are of concern, particularly to Welsh local government, which has raised them with me on several occasions.

Yr wyf wedi gwneud y sylwadau priodol mewn perthynas â’r materion hynny i’r Gweinidogion priodol yn San Steffan. Mae’r materion hynny’n peri pryder, yn arbennig i lywodraeth leol yng Nghymru, sydd wedi eu codi gyda mi ar sawl achlysur.

Janet Ryder spoken in English p. 23

Janet Ryder siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 23

This morning, John Prescott announced in the House of Commons, I believe, an extra £500 million for deprived communities in England. Are you expecting a share of that money to be transferred to your budget?

Credaf i John Prescott gyhoeddi yn Nhŷ’r Cyffredin y bore yma, y bydd £500 miliwn ychwanegol ar gael ar gyfer cymunedau difreintiedig yn Lloegr. A ydych yn disgwyl i gyfran o’r arian hwnnw gael ei throsglwyddo i’ch cyllideb chi?

Edwina Hart spoken in English p. 23

Edwina Hart siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 23

I believe that John Prescott made the announcement in the context of his departmental budget. As you know, we only receive a consequential if the Treasury allocates additional money.

Credaf i John Prescott wneud y cyhoeddiad yng nghyd-destun ei gyllideb adrannol. Fel y gwyddoch, dim ond os bydd y Trysorlys yn dyrannu arian ychwanegol y byddwn yn derbyn swm canlyniadol.

Peter Rogers spoken in English p. 23

Peter Rogers siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 23

I am sure that you are aware that farmers throughout the UK are experiencing a difficult financial downturn. What assurances can you give the Assembly that you will press the UK Government to provide funding to assist with implementing the new legislation on the removal of fallen stock from farms, and to support small abattoirs? Many European countries are using public health funds to assist in these matters. It would only be fair for the United Kingdom Government to recognise that we should have the same provision here.

Yr wyf yn siŵr eich bod yn ymwybodol bod ffermwyr drwy’r DU gyfan yn profi cwymp ariannol anodd. Pa sicrwydd allwch chi ei roi i’r Cynulliad y byddwch yn pwyso ar Lywodraeth y DU i ddarparu arian er mwyn cynorthwyo gyda’r broses o weithredu’r ddeddfwriaeth newydd ar gyfer cael gwared ar stoc ddarfodedig o ffermydd, ac i gefnogi lladd-dai bach? Mae llawer o wledydd Ewropeaidd yn defnyddio cyllid iechyd cyhoeddus i gynorthwyo gyda’r materion hyn. Ni fyddai ond yn deg i Lywodraeth y Deyrnas Unedig gydnabod y dylid cael yr un ddarpariaeth yma.

Edwina Hart spoken in English p. 23

Edwina Hart siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 23

I recall that when Carwyn Jones was the Minister responsible for agriculture, he considered the issue of small abattoirs. I will pass on your points to the appropriate Government Minister.

Cofiaf, yn ystod cyfnod Carwyn Jones fel y Gweinidog a oedd yn gyfrifol am amaethyddiaeth, iddo ystyried lladd-dai bach. Trosglwyddaf eich pwyntiau i Weinidog priodol y Llywodraeth.

Datganiad ar Gynnydd o ran Buddsoddi mewn Adeiladau Ysgolion

Statement on Progress in Investment in School Buildings

Jane Davidson The Minister for Education and Lifelong Learning spoken in English p. 24

Jane Davidson Y Gweinidog dros Addysg a Dysgu Gydol Oes siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 24

I am pleased to report on the progress of investment in school buildings in Wales in pursuit of the ‘BetterWales.com’ target that by 2010 all school buildings in Wales should be in good physical shape and be properly maintained. In 1997, the Labour Government inherited a legacy of serious under-investment in school buildings. Additional funds were identified from the proceeds of the windfall tax under the Government’s new deal programme. The funding provided for Wales under that scheme totalled £65 million. In 1997, local education authorities had limited information about the state of school buildings. As a result, they had difficulty gearing up to spend, with few staff dedicated to work on capital programmes. LEAs lacked confidence that funding would be sustained and were reluctant to plan strategically. The focus was on using resources to deal with—

Mae’n bleser gennyf sôn am gynnydd o ran buddsoddi mewn adeiladau ysgolion yng Nghymru er mwyn cyflawni targed ‘GwellCymru.com’ sef y dylai pob adeilad ysgol yng Nghymru fod mewn cyflwr ffisegol da ac wedi’u cynnal a’u cadw’n briodol erbyn 2010. Yn 1997, etifeddodd y Llywodraeth Lafur sefyllfa o dan-fuddsoddi difrifol mewn adeiladu ysgolion. Cafwyd arian ychwanegol o elw’r dreth elw annisgwyl o dan raglen bargen newydd y Llywodraeth. Cafodd Cymru gyfanswm o £65 miliwn o dan y cynllun hwnnw. Yn 1997, gwybodaeth gyfyngedig a oedd gan awdurdodau addysg lleol ynglŷn â chyflwr adeiladau ysgolion. O ganlyniad, bu’n anodd iddynt baratoi ar gyfer gwario, ac ychydig o staff oedd ar gael i weithio’n benodol ar raglenni cyfalaf. Nid oedd AALl yn hyderus y byddai’r arian yn gynaliadwy ac felly yr oeddent yn amharod i gynllunio’n strategol. Yr oeddent yn canolbwyntio ar ddefnyddio adnoddau i ddelio â—

Dafydd Elis-Thomas The Presiding Officer spoken in English p. 24

Dafydd Elis-Thomas Y Llywydd siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 24

Order. If Members keep muttering during statements, I may not call them to ask questions later.

Trefn. Os bydd Aelodau’n parhau i sibrwd yn ystod datganiadau, efallai na fyddaf yn galw arnynt i ofyn cwestiynau’n ddiweddarach.

Jane Davidson spoken in English p. 24

Jane Davidson siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 24

The focus was on using resources to deal with urgent problems, such as replacing doors, windows, roofs, heating systems and so on. Therefore, large numbers of schools benefited from worthwhile, but small, investment but larger projects were not tackled. In large measure, that has now been turned around. Most authorities now have up-to-date building condition survey information. The Welsh Local Government Association’s estimate of the revenue and capital investment needed in school buildings increased from £350 million in 2000 to over £1 billion in 2002. All authorities are making progress in drawing up asset management plans, which the Assembly Government requires them to have in place by April 2004. Capital investment decisions by authorities are beginning to be linked with their annual school organisation plans, which, since 1999, have begun to inform the planning of school places. Assembly funding has steadily increased to £100 million this year. That includes £54.9 million for general capital funding, £9.5 million for voluntary aided schools and £36.5 million for the school building improvement grant. Annual spending is in line with allocations—a full spend was achieved in 2001-02—although there are some continuing concerns about the ability of individual authorities to deliver on time.

Yr oeddent yn canolbwyntio ar ddefnyddio adnoddau i ddelio â phroblemau brys, fel gosod drysau, ffenestri, toeon, systemau gwresogi newydd ac ati. Felly, elwodd nifer fawr o ysgolion ar fuddsoddiadau gwerth chweil, ond bach, er nad ymdriniwyd â phrosiectau mwy. I raddau helaeth, mae’r sefyllfa honno wedi’i thrawsnewid. Erbyn hyn, mae gan y rhan fwyaf o awdurdodau wybodaeth gyfredol am gyflwr adeiladau yn sgîl arolygon. Mae Cymdeithas Llywodraeth Leol Cymru yn amcangyfrif bod y buddsoddiad o ran refeniw a chyfalaf sydd ei angen ar gyfer adeiladau ysgolion wedi cynyddu o £350 miliwn yn 2000 i dros £1 biliwn yn 2002. Mae pob awdurdod yn gwneud cynnydd o ran llunio cynlluniau rheoli asedau, y mae Llywodraeth y Cynulliad yn ei gwneud yn ofynnol iddynt fod ar waith erbyn Ebrill 2004. Mae penderfyniadau buddsoddi cyfalaf gan awdurdodau yn dechrau cael eu cysylltu â’u cynlluniau trefnu ysgolion blynyddol sydd, er 1999, wedi dechrau llywio’r gwaith o gynllunio llefydd mewn ysgolion. Mae arian y Cynulliad wedi cynyddu’n raddol i £100 miliwn eleni. Mae hynny’n cynnwys £54.9 miliwn ar gyfer arian cyfalaf cyffredinol, £9.5 miliwn ar gyfer ysgolion a gynorthwyir yn wirfoddol a £36.5 miliwn ar gyfer y grant gwella adeiladau ysgolion. Mae gwariant blynyddol yn unol â’r dyraniadau—cyflawnwyd gwariant llawn yn 2001-02—er bod pryderon o hyd ynglŷn â gallu awdurdodau unigol i gyflawni ar amser.

At an all-Wales level, authorities are allocated annually their own capital resources—general capital funding and capital receipts—for investment in school buildings. However, there is significant variation. Some authorities would not have had an investment programme in some years without Assembly grant funding. Others are using Assembly funding in addition to significant amounts of their own resources. We continue to closely monitor authorities’ overall spend since achieving the 2010 target depends on use of authorities’ own resources as well as grant funding. Information obtained from local authorities indicates that enhanced provision since 1997 has arrested the growth in the backlog of capital work on existing buildings and that the impact of investment is being felt in many schools, which is readily evident where investment has been in new or significantly refurbished buildings. Since 1997, over 3000 projects have been funded from grant, of which 140 are significant projects costing £200,000 or more—including 11 new or replacement schools. Many large projects still remain, with a number of schools in dire need of new premises. Investment of at least £140 million a year will be needed for the second half of this decade to reach the 2010 target. The Assembly’s commitment in ‘BetterWales.com’ made in May 2000 was that by 2010 all school buildings should be in good physical shape and properly maintained and supported by increased funding.

Ar lefel Cymru gyfan, dyrennir eu hadnoddau cyfalaf eu hunain i awdurdodau yn flynyddol—arian cyfalaf cyffredinol a derbyniadau cyfalaf—i’w buddsoddi mewn adeiladau ysgolion. Fodd bynnag, ceir amrywiadau arwyddocaol. Ni fuasai gan rai awdurdodau raglen fuddsoddi yn ystod rhai blynyddoeddd heb arian grant y Cynulliad. Mae eraill yn defnyddio arian y Cynulliad yn ychwanegol at symiau sylweddol o’u hadnoddau eu hunain. Yr ydym yn parhau i fonitro gwariant cyffredinol awdurdodau yn fanwl gan fod cyflawni targed 2010 yn dibynnu ar ddefnyddio adnoddau’r awdurdodau eu hunain yn ogystal ag arian grant. Mae gwybodaeth a gasglwyd gan awdurdodau lleol yn nodi bod y ddarpariaeth well er 1997 wedi atal yr ôl-groniad o waith cyfalaf ar adeiladau sy’n bodoli eisoes rhag cynyddu ac y teimlir effaith buddsoddi mewn llawer o ysgolion, sy’n amlwg iawn lle y buddsoddwyd mewn adeiladau newydd neu adeiladau a adnewyddwyd yn sylweddol. Er 1997, ariannwyd dros 3000 o brosiectau drwy grantiau, ac mae 140 ohonynt yn brosiectau sylweddol sy’n costio £200,000 neu fwy—yn cynnwys 11 ysgol newydd. Mae’r angen am lawer o brosiectau mawr yn parhau, gyda’r angen dybryd am adeiladau newydd yn amlwg iawn mewn nifer o ysgolion. Bydd angen buddsoddi o leiaf £140 miliwn y flwyddyn ar gyfer ail hanner y degawd hwn i gyflawni targed 2010. Yr ymrwymiad a wnaed gan y Cynulliad yn ‘GwellCymru.com’ ym mis Mai 2000 oedd y dylai adeiladau ysgolion fod mewn cyflwr ffisegol da a chael eu cynnal a’u cadw’n briodol a’u cefnogi gan fwy o arian erbyn 2010.

Funding for 2003-04 continues at £100 million. The Assembly’s approved budget plans show the schools buildings improvement grant set to increase by £15 million in 2004-05, bringing total funding to £116 million with a further £23 million in 2005-06, bringing total funding to £139 million. The Finance Minister signalled our commitment to this level of annual funding until the end of the decade to deliver the ‘Betterwales.com’ undertaking. Our estimate of the capital investment required overall, based on information from local authorities in 2002, is £1 billion. Our plans to the end of the decade mean that this level of funding will be available. We must now ensure that local authorities have the resources for major building replacement or renewal projects. I therefore announce today that I will start to consult local authorities through the Welsh Local Government Association on the arrangements for the use of the additional funds coming on stream from 2004-05.

Mae’r arian gyfer 2003-04 yn parhau ar £100 miliwn. Dengys cynlluniau cyllideb cymeradwy’r Cynulliad y bydd grant gwella adeiladau ysgolion yn cynyddu £15 miliwn yn 2004-05, gan greu cyfanswm o £116 miliwn gyda £23 miliwn ychwanegol yn 2005-06, sy’n gyfanswm o £139 miliwn. Pwysleisiodd y Gweinidog Cyllid ein hymrwymiad i’r lefel hon o gyllid blynyddol hyd at ddiwedd y degawd i gyflawni gwaith ‘GwellCymru.com’. Amcangyfrifwn mai £1 biliwn yw cyfanswm y buddsoddiad cyfalaf sydd ei angen, yn seiliedig ar wybodaeth gan awdurdodau lleol yn 2002. Mae ein cynlluniau hyd at ddiwedd y degawd yn golygu y bydd y lefel hon o arian ar gael. Rhaid inni sicrhau yn awr bod gan awdurdodau lleol yr adnoddau ar gyfer prosiectau adeiladau newydd neu adnewyddu adeiladau. Felly, cyhoeddaf heddiw y byddaf yn dechrau ymgynghori ag awdurdodau lleol drwy Gymdeithas Llywodraeth Leol Cymru ar y trefniadau ar gyfer defnyddio’r arian ychwanegol a fydd ar gael o 2004-05.

I propose that authorities will continue to get their annual shares of school building improvement grant, totalling around £35 million, for their small to medium-sized capital scheme programmes for a range of schools. There would be a significant injection of funding for regional special educational needs projects to address emerging conclusions on the need for investment in regional facilities. There will be a lump sum allocation for each authority of £9 million over the period to 2010 to enable them to undertake large schemes. Indicative allocations through to 2010 will enable authorities to plan their investment programmes. The proposals are predicated on the basis that the National Assembly, in its second term and beyond, will continue to see school building improvement as a key priority. I believe that it will.

Cynigiaf y bydd awdurdodau yn parhau i gael eu cyfrannau blynyddol o grant gwella adeiladau ysgolion, sef tua £35 miliwn, ar gyfer eu rhaglenni cynlluniau cyfalaf bach a chanolig eu maint ar gyfer amrywiaeth o ysgolion. Byddai hwb ariannol sylweddol i brosiectau anghenion addysgol arbennig rhanbarthol i ddelio â’r casgliadau a geir ar yr angen i fuddsoddi mewn cyfleusterau rhanbarthol. Dyrennir cyfandaliad o £9 miliwn i bob awdurdod am y cyfnod hyd 2010 i’w galluogi i ymgymryd â chynlluniau mawr. Bydd dyraniadau dynodol hyd at 2010 yn galluogi awdurdodau i gynllunio eu rhaglenni buddsoddi. Rhagwelir y cynigion ar y sail y bydd y Cynulliad Cendlaethol, yn ei ail dymor a thu hwnt, yn parhau i ystyried gwelliannau i adeiladau ysgolion yn flaenoriaeth allweddol. Credaf y bydd.

We owe it to our children and those who work in schools to provide them with buildings that are fit for the twenty-first century; that meet health and safety requirements, are suitable for delivery of the national curriculum and increasing use of ICT; are geared to include pupils with special educational needs and disabilities; support greater engagement with the local community; and are designed for sustainability. The approach that I have outlined will secure this.

Mae’n ddyletswydd arnom er mwyn ein plant a’r rhai sy’n gweithio mewn ysgolion i ddarparu adeiladau sy’n briodol i’r unfed ganrif ar hugain; sy’n bodloni gofynion iechyd a diogelwch, sy’n addas ar gyfer cyflwyno’r cwricwlwm cenedlaethol a’r defnydd cynyddol o TGCh; sydd wedi’u hanelu at gynnwys disgyblion ag anghenion addysgol arbennig ac anableddau; sy’n cefnogi mwy o gyswllt â’r gymuned leol; ac sydd wedi’u cynllunio i fod yn gynaliadwy. Bydd yr ymagwedd a amlinellais yn sicrhau hyn.

Cynog Dafis siaradwyd yn Gymraeg t. 27

Cynog Dafis spoken in Welsh p. 27

Diolchaf i’r Gweinidog am ei datganiad. Yr ydym i gyd yn falch bod mater cyflwr adeiladau ysgolion, o’r diwedd, yn cael ei drafod yn gadarnhaol. Dywedaf ‘o’r diwedd’ achos mae pethau wedi symud yn araf. Nodaf eiriau’r Gweinidog ein bod yn awr yn gweld arafu’r twf yn yr ôl-waith. Gobeithio y bydd pethau’n cyflymu. Mae rhaid wrth ymrwymiad parhaus i ddarparu cyllid ar gyfer buddsoddi a bydd Plaid Cymru yn sicrhau y bydd y buddsoddi hwnnw yn ei le ar gyfer y pedair blynedd nesaf.

I thank the Minister for her statement. We are all pleased that the issue of the condition of school buildings is, at last, being discussed positively. I say ‘at last’ because matters have been slow-moving. I note the Minister’s words that we are now seeing a slowdown in the growth of the backlog. I hope that matters will speed up. A continuous commitment to proviside funding for investment is necessary, and Plaid Cymru will ensure that that investment is in place for the ensuing four years.

Mae gennyf ychydig o gwestiynau penodol. Mae’r Gweinidog yn cyfeirio at 11 o ysgolion newydd. Faint ohonynt sy’n dod o dan y fenter cyllid preifat? Ar PFI yn gyffredinol, a yw’n cytuno â chasgliad y Pwyllgor Archwilio bod safon ysgolion PFI, ar y cyfan, yn salach o ran gofod, gwresogi, goleuo a dyluniad cyffredinol nag ysgolion newydd a ddarperir trwy’r dull traddodiadol? Hefyd ar PFI, yn fwy penodol, a all esbonio beth yn union yw’r rhwystr rhag symud ymlaen ar hyn o bryd ar y cynllun ar gyfer ysgol newydd yn lle Ysgol Gyfun Rhydfelen? Ai arafwch o ran gorchmynion prynu gorfodol sy’n gyfrifol? A wnaiff y Gweinidog ddweud yn onest a ydyw am i’r cynllun fynd yn ei flaen? Deallaf fod perygl y caiff y cynllun hwn ei golli. Beth wnaiff y Gweinidog i ddileu’r rhwystrau sydd yn bygwth y cynllun?

I have some specific questions. The Minister refers to 11 new schools. How many of those come under the private finance initiative? On PFI, generally, does the Minister agree with the Audit Committee’s conclusion that the standard of PFI schools, on the whole, is poorer in terms of space, heating, lighting and general design than the new schools provided through the traditional method? Also on PFI, and more specifically, can she explain exactly what is the current obstacle to progress on the scheme for a new school to replace Ysgol Gyfun Rhydfelen? Are compulsory purchase orders responsible for the delay? Will the Minister tell us honestly whether she wants the scheme to go ahead? I understand that there is a risk that the scheme could be lost. What will the Minister do to ensure that the obstacles that threaten the scheme are removed?

Hoffwn ofyn cwestiwn pellach ar fater na chyfeiriodd y Gweinidog ato, sef y cyllid sylweddol sydd ar gael drwy’r gronfa cyfleoedd newydd ar gyfer datblygu cyfleusterau chwaraeon mewn ysgolion. Mae arian sylweddol wedi ei glustnodi ar gyfer hynny. Faint o’r cyllid sydd wedi ei wario neu ei ddyrannu hyd yn hyn? A yw’r Gweinidog yn gwybod am y cynlluniau hynny sydd ar y gweill ers dwy flynedd nad oes penderfyniad wedi ei wneud arnynt, heb sôn am eu symud ymlaen? Beth all y Gweinidog ei wneud i gyflymu datblygiadau yn y maes allweddol hwn, sydd yn bwysig nid yn unig i ysgolion, ond i’r cymunedau lle y’u lleolir?

I wish to ask a further question on a matter that the Minister did not mention, namely, the substantial funding that is available from the new opportunities fund to develop sports facilities in schools. Substantial sums have been allocated for that purpose. How much of that funding has been spent or allocated to date? Does the Minister know about those schemes that have been in the pipeline for two years and that are still awaiting a decision, let alone being moved forward? What can the Minister do to speed up developments in this key area, which is crucial not only to schools, but also to the communities in which they are located?

Jane Davidson siaradwyd yn Gymraeg t. 28

Jane Davidson spoken in Welsh p. 28

Ni chytunaf o gwbl â’r ffaith bod y datganiad wedi bod yn hir yn dod. Ar fy niwrnod cyntaf yn Weinidog, cytunais ei bod yn bwysig darparu arian ar gyfer adeiladau ysgol. Dywedais hynny yn y Pwyllgor Addysg a Dysgu Gydol Oes ac yn y Siambr.

I do not agree with the fact that the statement has been a long time coming. On my first day as Minister, I agreed that it was important to provide funding for school buildings. I said that in the Education and Lifelong Learning Committee and also in the Chamber.

Mae’r 11 ysgol newydd a restrais yn y datganiad wedi eu hariannu gan y Cynulliad, ac nid drwy PFI. Hyd yma, adeiladwyd pedair ysgol yng Nghymru drwy PFI ac mae’r pedair ysgol yn hapus â’u hadeiladau. Gofynnwch i Ysgol Gyfun Cwm Rhymni, i Ysgol Lewis i Fechgyn, i Ysgol Gyfun Penweddig, ac i Ysgol Gymunedol Doc Penfro. Mae’r prifathrawon yn hapus gydag adeiladau eu hysgolion. Trafod y cynllun PFI cyntaf a wnaeth adroddiad y Comisiwn Archwilio; daeth yr ysgolion newydd o dan yr ail gynllun PFI.

The 11 new schools that I listed in the statement are funded by the Assembly, and not under PFI. To date, four schools have been built in Wales under PFI and all four schools are happy with their buildings. Ask Ysgol Gyfun Cwm Rhymni, Lewis Boys School, Ysgol Gyfun Penweddig, and Pembroke Dock Community School. The headteachers are happy with their school buildings. The Audit Commission’s report was on the first PFI scheme; the new schools came under the second PFI scheme.

Ni allaf ddweud unrhywbeth am safle Ysgol Gynradd Gymraeg Garth Olwg achos mae wedi’i leoli yn f’etholaeth. Fodd bynnag, bydd y Prif Weinidog yn ystyried y cynigion statudol a’r gorchmynion prynu gorfodol. Edwina Hart, fel Gweinidog Cyllid, sydd yn gwneud penderfyniadau ar PFI. Deallaf fod y Cynulliad newydd dderbyn hysbysiadau’r awdurdodau lleol. Yr wyf yn siŵr y bydd Gweinidogion yn ystyried yr hysbysiadau cyn gynted â phosibl, cyn belled â’u bod o fewn y canllawiau statudol.

I cannot say anything about the Ysgol Gynradd Gymraeg Garth Olwg site, because it is located in my constituency. However, the First Minister will consider the statutory proposals and the compulsory purchase orders. It is Edwina Hart, as Finance Minister, who takes decisions on PFI. I understand that the Assembly has just received notices from the local authorities. I am sure that Ministers will consider those notices as soon as possible, providing that they conform with statutory guidelines.

Bydd rhaid i mi ofyn i Jenny Randerson am y gronfa cyfleoedd newydd. Ysgrifennaf atoch am hynny.

I will have to ask Jenny Randerson about the new opportunities fund. I will write to you about that.

Alun Pugh siaradwyd yn Gymraeg t. 28

Alun Pugh spoken in Welsh p. 28

Hoffwn ddiolch i chi am ymweld ag Ysgol Brynhyfryd yn Rhuthun y llynedd. A wnewch gadarnhau y bydd adeilad dysgu pwrpasol wedi ei godi yn yr ysgol erbyn mis Medi eleni?

I thank you for your visit to Ysgol Brynhyfryd in Ruthin last year. Will you confirm that a purpose-built teaching building will have been constructed in the school by this September?

Jane Davidson siaradwyd yn Gymraeg t. 28

Jane Davidson spoken in Welsh p. 28

Mae’n bwysig archwilio adeiladau ysgolion. Mae’n iawn cael rhai adeiladau dros dro, ond ni ddylid cael gormod ohonynt. Bydd arian y Cynulliad yn gallu taclo’r yr adeiladau nad ydynt yn foddhaol. Yr oeddwn yn falch o weld y newidiadau a wnaethpwyd yn Ysgol Brynhyfryd gan fod gormod o adeiladau dros dro yno: yr oedd yn sefyllfa ofnadwy. Yr wyf yn falch o glywed bod yr arian yn newid pethau.

It is important to survey school buildings. Some temporary buildings are fine, but there should not be too many. Assembly funding will be able to tackle those sub-standard buildings. I was pleased to see the improvements made at Ysgol Brynhyfryd because there was an excess number of temporary buildings there: it was a terrible situation. I am pleased to hear that the money is changing things.

Jonathan Morgan spoken in English p. 29

Jonathan Morgan siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 29

I thank you for your statement. We welcome the detailed picture that is emerging on schools’ requirements in Wales. However, we are concerned that, up until now, local authorities have not been maintaining adequate data and information on the state of school buildings for which they are responsible. On page three of your statement, you mention that annual spending is largely in line with allocations, although there are some concerns about the ability of certain authorities to deliver on time. Will you tell us which authorities are facing problems and describe the nature of those problems? I suspect that it concerns staffing issues, but will you provide some details on why authorities face difficulties in spending the money that you have been providing? In your statement you say that there is significant variation and that some authorities would have had no investment in school buildings from their own resources. As it is the responsibility of local authorities to maintain school buildings—and you talk often in this Chamber of local democracy—why have local authorities not made that provision when you and the Finance Minister tell us time and time again that the settlements for local government are generous?

Diolch ichi am eich datganiad. Croesawn y darlun manwl sy’n dod i’r amlwg mewn cysylltiad â gofynion ysgolion yng Nghymru. Fodd bynnag, mae’r ffaith nad yw awdurdodau lleol, hyd yma, wedi bod yn cadw data a gwybodaeth ddigonol ar gyflwr adeiladau ysgolion y maent yn gyfrifol amdanynt yn peri pryder inni. Ar dudalen tri eich datganiad, soniasoch fod y gwariant blynyddol yn cydweddu â’r dyraniadau ar y cyfan, er bod rhywfaint o bryder ynglŷn â gallu rhai awdurdodau i gyflawni ar amser. A ddywedwch wrthym pa awdurdodau sy’n wynebu problemau ac a roddwch ddisgrifiad o natur y problemau hynny? Yr wyf yn amau mai problemau staffio ydynt, ond a wnewch chi roi rywfaint o fanylion ynglŷn â pham y mae awdurdodau yn wynebu anawsterau wrth geisio gwario’r arian a ddarparwyd gennych? Yn eich datganiad dywedasoch fod cryn dipyn o amrywio ac na fyddai rhai awdurdodau wedi buddsoddi mewn adeiladau ysgolion drwy eu hadnoddau eu hunain. Gan mai cyfrifoldeb awdurdodau lleol yw cynnal adeiladau ysgolion—a’ch bod yn sôn yn aml am ddemocratiaeth leol yn y Siambr hon—pam nad yw awdurdodau lleol wedi cyflawni hyn a chithau a’r Gweinidog Cyllid yn dweud wrthym droeon bod y setliadau ar gyfer llywodraeth lleol yn hael?

You also refer in your statement to monitoring local authorities’ overall spend of their own use of resources in addition to the grant funding. What meetings have you had with local councils to ascertain the proportion of their budgets that they are able to put into school buildings? As you rightly say, this is a partnership; it is not just about you putting the money in—local authorities must also identify their own resources. On resources, do you intend making further use of PFI? Your Government was heavily criticised by your colleague, Jon Owen Jones, the Labour MP for Cardiff Central, who said that PFI was not being used to its full extent. Are there further PFI opportunities to explore?

Cyfeiriwch yn eich datganiad hefyd at fonitro gwariant cyffredinol awdurdodau lleol ar eu defnydd o’u hadnoddau eu hunain yn ychwanegol at yr arian grant. Pa gyfarfodydd a gawsoch gyda chynghorau lleol i ganfod pa ganran o’u cyllidebau y gallant ei neilltuo ar gyfer adeiladau ysgolion? Dywedasoch yn gywir mai partneriaeth yw hon; nid mater o ddarparu’r arian gennych ydyw—rhaid i awdurdodau lleol hefyd nodi eu hadnoddau eu hunain. O ran adnoddau, a ydych yn bwriadu gwneud defnydd pellach o PFI? Beirniadwyd eich Llywodraeth yn llym gan eich cyd-aelod, Jon Owen Jones, AS Llafur Canol Caerdydd, a ddywedodd nad oedd PFI yn cael ei defnyddio i’r eithaf. A oes unrhyw gyfleoedd PFI pellach i ymchwilio iddynt?

Further on in the statement, Minister, you refer to the additional funding for regional special educational needs projects. Will that include funding to meet the commitments of the Special Educational Needs and Disability Act 2002, because that puts a certain amount of responsibility on schools and local authorities to ensure that their buildings are fit for purpose for those pupils with special needs? That puts a financial obligation on them—do you intend for those schools and LEAs to meet those financial obligations within the planned expenditure that you have outlined this afternoon, or will there will be extra money to cope with the extra obligations that Parliament has placed upon us?

Yn ddiweddarach yn y datganiad, Weinidog, cyfeiriasoch at yr arian ychwanegol ar gyfer prosiectau anghenion addysgol arbennig rhanbarthol. A fydd hynny’n cynnwys arian i gyflawni ymrwymiadau Deddf Anghenion Addysgol Arbennig ac Anabledd 2002, oherwydd rhydd hyn gryn gyfrifoldeb ar ysgolion ac awdurdodau lleol i sicrhau bod eu hadeiladau yn briodol i’w defnyddio gan y disgyblion hynny ag anghenion arbennig? Rhydd hyn rwymedigaeth ariannol arnynt—a ydych yn bwriadu i’r ysgolion a’r AALl hynny gyflawni’r rhwymedigaethau ariannol hynny o fewn y gwariant arfaethedig a amlinellwyd gennych y prynhawn yma, neu a fydd arian ychwanegol i ymdopi â’r rhwymedigaethau ychwanegol a roddwyd arnom gan y Senedd?

Jane Davidson spoken in English p. 30

Jane Davidson siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 30

It is ironic, Jonathan, that you should start with local authorities’ data, because you did not collect any data from them and you did not want to know about the conditions of school buildings—

Mae’n eironig, Jonathan, ichi ddechrau gyda data awdurdodau lleol, oherwydd ni wnaethoch chi gasglu unrhyw ddata ganddynt ac nid oeddech am wybod beth oedd cyflwr adeiladau ysgolion—

Jonathan Morgan spoken in English p. 30

Jonathan Morgan siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 30

It is their responsibility—

Eu cyfrifoldeb hwy yw—

Dafydd Elis-Thomas The Presiding Officer spoken in English p. 30

Dafydd Elis-Thomas Y Llywydd siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 30

Order. I have already made my position on questions during statements clear. Members have an opportunity to question Ministers. I may exercise my prerogative not to allow too many questions. I ask Members to confine themselves to asking one or two questions on statements in a courteous manner so that we can then hear the Minister’s reply.

Trefn. Yr wyf eisoes wedi lleisio fy marn ynglŷn â chwestiynau yn ystod datganiadau. Mae gan Aelodau gyfle i holi’r Gweinidogion. Efallai y byddaf yn arfer fy hawl i wrthod gormod o gwestiynau. Gofynnaf i’r Aelodau gyfyngu eu hunain i holi un neu ddau o gwestiynau ar ddatganiadau yn gwrtais fel y gallwn glywed ateb y Gweinidog.

Jane Davidson spoken in English p. 30

Jane Davidson siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 30

You did not collect the information necessary for evidence-based policy. The Assembly introduced that, and it is interesting to note that when the Assembly was established, we had a conservative estimate of the cost of school buildings because nobody had done the work. Local authorities were concerned about future funding because the previous Government gave them no funding for capital investment. We have now provided so much capital funding that local authorities are properly geared up, and that is why I am pleased to announce that full spend was achieved in 2001-02. As the Minister for Education and Lifelong Learning, I have opened schools in many areas across Wales, and I was told that schools had not been opened in the lifetime of the officers in the Education Department. That is the level of our investment.

Ni wnaethoch gasglu’r wybodaeth angenrheidiol ar gyfer polisi sy’n seiliedig ar dystiolaeth. Y Cynulliad a gyflwynodd hynny, ac mae’n ddiddorol nodi pan sefydlwyd y Cynulliad, fod gennym amcangyfrif ceidwadol o gost adeiladau ysgolion am nad oedd unrhyw un wedi gwneud y gwaith. Yr oedd awdurdodau lleol yn poeni am nawdd yn y dyfodol am nad oedd y Llywodraeth flaenorol wedi rhoi unrhyw arian iddynt ar gyfer buddsoddiad cyfalaf. Yr ydym wedi darparu cymaint o arian cyfalaf erbyn hyn sy’n golygu bod awdurdodau lleol wedi eu paratoi’n briodol, a dyna pam ei bod yn bleser gennyf gyhoeddi y cyflawnwyd gwariant llawn yn 2001-02. A finnau’n Weinidog dros Addysg a Dysgu Gydol Oes, yr wyf wedi agor ysgolion mewn llawer o ardaloedd ledled Cymru, a dywedwyd wrthyf nad oedd unrhyw ysgol wedi’i hagor yn ystod oes swyddogion yr Adran Addysg. Dyna yw lefel ein buddsoddiad.

On delays, the local authorities occasionally do not gear themselves up to capital spend. That was a particular issue in 2000-01, which we reported to Committee at the time. That has largely been dealt with. However, there are always issues about the fact that these are statutory processes and people can make objections to the use of land. People can put timetables in place that can be thrown out by the fact that, for example, there might be objections to statutory processes. My officials monitor spending regularly as part of their close partnership with local government. I emphasised the local authorities’ commitment in my statement because, with the additional money that we are making available—£9 million to each local authority in Wales to undertake big projects—we also take into account those authorities that have put in their own capital spend in order to ensure that they are actively achieving the targets. We will maintain the distribution formula, and I actively encourage local authorities to further increase their capital spend to meet targets.

O ran oedi, nid yw’r awdurdodau lleol yn paratoi eu hunain ar gyfer gwariant cyfalaf ar brydiau. Yr oedd hynny yn broblem benodol yn 2000-01, a thynnwyd sylw’r Pwyllgor at hynny ar y pryd. Mae’r mater hwn wedi’i ddatrys i bob pwrpas. Fodd bynnag, mae problemau o hyd ynglŷn â’r ffaith mai prosesau statudol yw’r rhain ac y gall pobl wrthwynebu’r defnydd o dir. Gall pobl lunio amserlenni y gellir eu diystyru oherwydd, er enghraifft, efallai y bydd gwrthwynebiadau i’r prosesau statudol. Mae fy swyddogion yn monitro gwariant yn rheolaidd fel rhan o’u partneriaeth agos â llywodraeth leol. Pwysleisiais ymrwymiad yr awdurdodau lleol yn fy natganiad oherwydd, gyda’r arian ychwanegol fydd ar gael—£9 miliwn i bob awdurdod lleol yng Nghymru i ymgymryd â phrosiectau mawr—yr ydym hefyd yn cadw mewn cof yr awdurodau hynny sydd wedi cyfrannu eu gwariant cyfalaf eu hunain i sicrhau eu bod yn cyflawni’r targedau. Byddwn yn cadw’r fformiwla ddosbarthu, ac anogaf yr awdurdodau lleol i gynyddu eu gwariant cyfalaf ymhellach er mwyn cyflawni targedau.

Private finance initiative is not a matter for me, it is a matter for my colleague, the Finance Minister. However, what has been demonstrated time and again is that there are different ways of achieving the outcome of good quality schools for our children, in which our teachers are happy to work, and which are fit for purpose. We will use whatever means are appropriate, but we will always test the appropriateness of those means. I am delighted to re-affirm what I have already said in my statement, that 3,000 projects have been funded by Assembly capital funding.

Nid mater i mi yw’r fenter cyllid preifat, ond mater i’m cyd-Aelod, y Gweinidog Cyllid. Fodd bynnag, yr hyn a ddangoswyd droeon yw bod gwahanol ffyrdd o sicrhau ysgolion o ansawdd da i’n plant, ysgolion y mae athrawon yn hapus i weithio ynddynt ac sy’n addas at y pwrpas. Byddwn yn defnyddio pa bynnag ddulliau sy’n briodol, ond byddwn bob amser yn profi priodoldeb y dulliau hynny. Mae’n bleser gennyf gadarnhau yr hyn a ddywedais eisoes yn fy natganiad, sef bod 3,000 o brosiectau wedi’u hariannu drwy arian cyfalaf y Cynulliad.

I will make one last, important point about our obligations under the Special Education Needs and Disability Act 2001, which comes into place in September. We expect strategies to be in place by 2004, and the asset management plans take account of this legislation. Costs have risen so much partly to make buildings fit for this purpose. However, it is not just about that. Another set of obligations under the Special Education Needs and Disability Act 2001 is related to the extent to which disabled pupils participate in the school curriculum, as well as improving the physical environment and improving the delivery to disabled pupils, if information is provided in writing to pupils who are not disabled. We will take those responsibilities seriously.

Gwnaf un pwynt pwysig i gloi ynglŷn â’n rhwymedigaethau o dan Ddeddf Anghenion Addysgol Arbennig ac Anabledd 2001, a ddaw i rym ym mis Medi. Disgwyliwn y bydd strategaethau ar waith erbyn 2004, ac y bydd y cynlluniau rheoli asedau yn ystyried y ddeddfwriaeth hon. Mae costau wedi codi gymaint yn rhannol er mwyn sicrhau bod adeiladau yn addas at y pwrpas hwn. Fodd bynnag, nid dyma’r unig ystyriaeth. Mae set arall o rwymedigaethau o dan Ddeddf Anghenion Addysgol Arbennig ac Anabledd 2001 sy’n ymwneud ag i ba raddau y mae disgyblion anabl yn cymryd rhan yng nghwricwlwm yr ysgol, yn ogystal â gwella’r amgylchedd ffisegol a gwella’r ddarpariaeth i ddisgyblion anabl, os darperir gwybodaeth ysgrifenedig i ddisgyblion nad ydynt yn anabl. Byddwn yn cymryd y cyfrifoldebau hynny o ddifrif.

Janice Gregory spoken in English p. 32

Janice Gregory siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 32

I welcome the continuing substantial investment in school buildings, including the building of new nursery blocks in a number of towns and villages in my Ogmore constituency. Bridgend County Borough Council recognises that the funding comes from the National Assembly for Wales. Are you are aware of the Rhondda Cynon Taf spin machine called ‘Rapidly Changing Times’, which heralds the school building programmes, including a new nursery block in Llanharry primary school in my constituency, but which makes no mention of funding from the National Assembly?

Croesawaf y buddsoddiad sylweddol parhaus mewn adeiladau ysgolion, yn cynnwys adeiladu blociau meithrin newydd mewn nifer o drefi a phentrefi yn fy etholaeth i yn Ogwr. Mae Cyngor Bwrdeistref Sirol Pen-y-bont ar Ogwr yn cydnabod y ceir yr arian gan Gynulliad Cenedlaethol Cymru. A ydych yn ymwybodol o beiriant sbin Rhondda Cynon Taf a elwir yn ‘Rapidly Changing Times’, sy’n cyhoeddi rhaglenni adeiladu ysgolion, yn cynnwys bloc meithrin newydd yn ysgol gynradd Llanharri yn fy etholaeth i, ond nad yw’n crybwyll cyllid gan y Cynulliad Cenedlaethol?

Jane Davidson spoken in English p. 32

Jane Davidson siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 32

I am aware of the spin machine that operates in Rhondda Cynon Taf, which does not acknowledge that public funding comes from the Assembly. This is a useful opportunity to reaffirm that public funding for schools does come from the Assembly, including the funding for the new Rhondda special school.

Yr wyf yn ymwybodol o’r peiriant sbin sydd wrthi yn Rhondda Cynon Taf, nad yw’n cydnabod mai gan y Cynulliad y daw arian cyhoeddus. Mae hwn yn gyfle defnyddiol i gadarnhau mai’r Cynulliad sy’n darparu arian cyhoeddus ar gyfer yr ysgolion, gan cynnwys arian ar gyfer yr ysgol arbennig newydd yn y Rhondda.

Mick Bates spoken in English p. 32

Mick Bates siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 32

The Welsh Liberal Democrats welcome the increased funding announced in this statement. I seek clarification about the local authority figures. Are those figures available to everyone? My research has shown that it is difficult to get the overall spend from the authority source and from the upgrade bill.

Mae Democratiaid Rhyddfrydol Cymru’n croesawu’r cynnydd mewn cyllid a gyhoeddwyd yn y datganiad hwn. Hoffwn gael eglurhad ynglŷn â ffigurau awdurdodau lleol. A yw’r ffigurau hynny ar gael i bawb? Dangosodd fy ymchwil ei bod yn anodd sicrhau cyfanswm y gwariant o ffynhonnell yr awdurdod ac o’r bil uwchraddio.

I am concerned about the standards to which these buildings are constructed. While it is great to look at raw figures and to see that we have 11 new schools, will you ensure that the energy standards to which these buildings are constructed will meet future demands, so that we can use them as exemplars of energy use? When we talk about sustainable development within education, we need to see that these buildings are examples of that.

Mae’r safonau a ddilynir wrth adeiladu’r adeiladau hyn yn peri pryder imi. Er ei bod yn dda cael edrych ar ffigurau craidd a gweld bod gennym 11 ysgol newydd, a fyddwch yn sicrhau y bydd y safonau ynni a ddefnyddir wrth adeiladu’r adeiladau hyn yn bodloni’r galw yn y dyfodol, er mwyn inni allu eu defnyddio fel enghreifftiau o sut i ddefnyddio ynni? Wrth drafod datblygu cynaliadwy ym myd addysg, mae angen inni weld bod yr adeiladau hyn yn enghreifftiau o hynny.

I also welcome the ‘significant injection of funding’ for regional special educational needs projects as mentioned in the last paragraph of your report. I would like to hear more about that, because in Powys we are moving more towards catering for our children within our area rather than sending them elsewhere. What do you mean by ‘significant injection’? Will that money be available to local authorities to allow them to develop their own facilities?

Croesawaf hefyd yr ‘hwb sylweddol o arian’ ar gyfer prosiectau anghenion addysgol arbennig rhanbarthol a grybwyllwyd ym mharagraff olaf eich adroddiad. Hoffwn glywed mwy am hynny, oherwydd ym Mhowys yr ydym yn symud tuag at ddarparu ar gyfer ein plant o fewn yr ardal yn hytrach na’u hanfon i fannau eraill. Beth yw ystyr ‘hwb sylweddol’? A fydd yr arian hwnnw ar gael i awdurdodau lleol er mwyn eu galluogi i ddatblygu eu cyfleusterau eu hunain?

I am concerned about substandard mobile classrooms. How many have been removed as a result of this upgrade money?

Mae ystafelloedd dosbarth symudol sy’n is na’r safon yn peri pryder imi. Faint ohonynt sydd wedi’u diddymu yn dilyn yr arian ychwanegol hwn?

Jane Davidson spoken in English p. 33

Jane Davidson siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 33

You might remember that we reported the outturn figures for 2001-2002 to Committee, so the same thing will happen with the figures for 2002-2003 in terms of local authority spend. I endorse your point about energy because it is acutely important. That is why I said in this statement that we support the sustainability agenda. The Cabinet is working to consider ways in which that agenda can be actively delivered. I am keen to see active energy policies operating in both the refurbishment and the renewal of school buildings.

Efallai eich bod yn cofio inni gyflwyno’r ffigurau alldro ar gyfer 2001-2002 i’r Pwyllgor, felly bydd yr un peth yn digwydd gyda ffigurau 2002-2003 yn nhermau gwariant awdurdodau lleol. Cymeradwyaf eich pwynt ynglŷn ag ynni oherwydd mae’n bwysig iawn. Dyna pam y dywedais ein bod yn cefnogi’r agenda cynaliadwyedd yn y datganiad hwn. Mae’r Cabinet yn ystyried ffyrdd o gyflwyno’r agenda honno yn weithredol. Yr wyf yn awyddus i weld polisïau ynni ar waith yn y broses o adnewyddu ac ailwampio adeiladau ysgolion.

In terms of regional special educational needs, we took Wales-only powers in the Education Act to ensure that we could do this. Authorities the size of Powys, with a huge land mass, have obvious difficulties but there are many geographically small local authorities where the additional expense of SEN provision often means that people cannot access sufficient provision near their local community. We are considering collaborative partnerships between local authorities. My officials are convening a conference with local authorities at the end of this month to discuss how to take this forward. We have demonstrated with Ysgol Plas Brondyffryn—where I will cut the first sod on 6 March—how we are doing this in north Wales and it is has been strongly supported by local authorities. Therefore, it is not necessarily about building in each local authority; it is about getting the right collaboration to ensure that children are properly cared for within the education system.

Yn nhermau anghenion addysgol arbennig rhanbarthol, mabwysiadwyd pwerau Cymru yn unig gennym yn y Ddeddf Addysg er mwyn sicrhau y gallem wneud hyn. Mae awdurdodau o faint Powys, sydd ag arwynebedd tir enfawr, yn wynebu anawsterau amlwg ond mae sawl awdurdod lleol sydd yn fach yn ddaearyddol lle mae cost ychwanegol darpariaeth AAA yn golygu na all pobl yn aml gael mynediad i ddarpariaeth ddigonol yn agos at eu cymunedau lleol. Yr ydym yn ystyried partneriaethau cydweithredol rhwng awdurdodau lleol. Mae fy swyddogion yn trefnu cynhadledd ddiwedd y mis gydag awdurdodau lleol i drafod sut i ddatblygu hyn. Yr ydym wedi dangos gydag Ysgol Plas Brondyffryn—lle byddaf yn torri’r dywarchen gyntaf ar 6 Mawrth—sut yr ydym yn gwneud hyn yn y Gogledd ac fe’i chefnogwyd yn gryf gan yr awdurdodau lleol. Felly, nid yw o reidrwydd yn golygu adeiladu ym mhob awdurdod lleol; mae’n golygu sicrhau cydweithredu addas er mwyn sicrhau gofal priodol i blant o fewn y system addysg.

On substandard mobile classrooms, I have found that the quality of mobiles on the market varies from those that are excellent, which you would be perfectly happy to have as a classroom, to those that are absolutely appalling, which must be disposed of as soon as possible. As Cabinet colleagues will not be contributing to this debate, I must say that schools like Penyfai Church in Wales Primary School in Carwyn Jones’s constituency, and Cowbridge Comprehensive School in Jane Hutt’s constituency have lobbied me long and hard about awful mobiles. I am not sure if I can give figures about how many substandard mobiles have gone, but I can assure you that one purpose of this work is to dispose of the substandard mobiles because they are not fit for purpose. If I can give accurate figures, I will provide them at the Committee meeting when we consider the outturn for the year’s capital expenditure.

O ran ystafelloedd dosbarth symudol sy’n is na’r safon, yr wyf wedi canfod bod ansawdd yr ystafelloedd dosbarth symudol sydd ar y farchnad yn amrywio o’r rhai sy’n wych, y byddech yn fwy na pharod i’w defnyddio fel dosbarthiadau, i’r rhai sy’n gwbl warthus, y dylid cael gwared arnynt cyn gynted â phosibl. Gan na fydd fy nghyd-Aelodau yn y Cabinet yn cyfrannu at y ddadl hon, rhaid imi ddweud bod ysgolion fel ysgol gynradd yr Eglwys yng Nghymru ym Mhenyfai yn etholaeth Carwyn Jones ac Ysgol Gyfun y Bont-faen yn etholaeth Jane Hutt wedi fy lobïo yn gyson ac yn ddyfal ynglŷn ag ystafelloedd dosbarth symudol gwael. Nid wyf yn siŵr a allaf roi ffigurau ynglŷn â faint o ddosbarthiadau symudol o safon isel sydd wedi diflannu, ond gallaf eich sicrhau mai un o ddibenion y gwaith hwn yw cael gwared ar ystafelloedd dosbarth symudol sy’n is na’r safon am nad ydynt yn addas at y pwrpas. Os gallaf roi ffigurau cywir, byddaf yn eu darparu yng nghyfarfod y Pwyllgor pan fyddwn yn ystyried yr alldro o ran gwariant cyfalaf y flwyddyn.

John Griffiths siaradwyd yn Gymraeg ac yn Saesneg t. 34

John Griffiths spoken in Welsh and English p. 34

Y mae ein plant, ein hathrawon a’n staff yn haeddu adeiladau ysgol o’r radd flaenaf. Mae gwelliannau sylweddol i’w gwneud o hyd ond croesawaf y gwaith da yr ydym wedi ei wneud a’ch datganiad heddiw.

in Welsh Our children, teachers and staff deserve school buildings of the highest order. There are still some substantial improvements to be made but I welcome the good work that we have already done and your statement today.

From the fine examples of school-building improvements across Wales, I will mention two from my constituency: the refurbishment of Fairoak Nursery in Newport East and the new block at St Julian’s High, which has a computer suite, technology rooms and general teaching facilities to enhance learning opportunities at the school. Do you agree that it is important that schools are involved at the earliest stage of the planning process of new buildings and refurbishment so that they can input into the design and address practical issues—matters as basic as which way doors should open, pupil movement through the school, and possible effects on pupil behaviour. Do you agree that integral school involvement at the earliest opportunity is crucial?

yn Saesneg O’r enghreifftiau gwych o welliannau i adeiladau ysgolion ledled Cymru, byddaf yn sôn am ddwy yn fy etholaeth i: adnewyddiad meithrinfa Fairoak yn Nwyrain Casnewydd a’r bloc newydd yn ysgol uwchradd St Julian, sydd ag ystafell gyfrifiaduron, ystafelloedd technoleg a chyfleusterau addysgu cyffredinol er mwyn gwella cyfleoedd dysgu yn yr ysgol. A gytunwch ei bod yn bwysig cynnwys ysgolion yn ystod cam cynharaf y broses o gynllunio adeiladau newydd a gwaith adnewyddu fel y gallant leisio barn ynglŷn â’r cynllun a thrafod materion ymarferol—materion mor sylfaenol ag i ba gyfeiriad y dylai drysau agor, symudiad disgyblion yn drwy’r ysgol, a’r effeithiau posibl ar ymddygiad disgyblion. A gytunwch fod cynnwys ysgolion yn y broses gynllunio cyn gynted â phosibl yn hanfodol?

Jane Davidson spoken in English p. 35

Jane Davidson siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 35

I think that every Member would be able to find examples in their constituencies of where this money is making changes on the ground. I want to endorse your last comment about involvement in the planning process. Taking the four PFI schools that have opened in Wales: one of the reasons that each headteacher feels that they are a success is that each of them was actively involved in developing the design of the school. This has also happened in traditionally funded schools in Wales. It may be useful for those local authorities that are starting to use this large additional investment to talk to the other local authorities that are already using the investment effectively. I have seen some marvellous new schools and we do not want people reinventing the wheel when we know that some designs really work. They are cost effective—because it should not be more costly than necessary—energy efficient, and provide the right kind of environment to take children into the twenty-first century.

Credaf y gallai pob Aelod ganfod enghreifftiau yn eu hetholaethau lle mae’r arian hwn yn sicrhau newidiadau ar lawr gwlad. Hoffwn ategu eich sylw olaf ynglŷn â chyfranogi o’r broses gynllunio. Gan ystyried y pedair ysgol PFI sydd wedi agor yng Nghymru: un rheswm pam fo pob pennaeth yn teimlo y buont yn llwyddiannus yw eu bod wedi cyfrannu at y gwaith o ddatblygu cynllun yr ysgol. Mae hyn hefyd wedi digwydd mewn ysgolion a ariennir drwy ddulliau traddodiadol yng Nghymru. Efallai y byddai’n ddefnyddiol i’r awdurdodau lleol hynny sy’n dechrau defnyddio’r buddsoddiad ychwanegol mawr hwn allu siarad ag awdurdodau lleol eraill sydd eisoes yn defnyddio’r buddsoddiad yn effeithiol. Yr wyf wedi gweld rhai ysgolion newydd ardderchog ac nid ydym am i bobl ailddyfeisio’r olwyn pan wyddom fod rhai cynlluniau yn gweithio. Maent yn gost effeithiol—oherwydd ni ddylai fod yn fwy costus na’r angen—yn effeithlon o ran ynni ac maent yn darparu’r amgylchedd cywir er mwyn tywys plant i’r unfed ganrif ar hugain.

Lorraine Barrett spoken in English p. 35

Lorraine Barrett siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 35

This statement is good news. Given that every LEA in Wales will receive an extra £9 million, what sort of flexibility will they have in terms of how they can spend the money? What sort of projects could this extra £9 million for every local authority be spent on?

Mae’r datganiad hwn yn newyddion da. O ystyried y bydd pob AAA yng Nghymru yn derbyn £9 miliwn ychwanegol, pa fath o hyblygrwydd a fydd ganddynt yn nhermau sut y gallant wario’r arian hwnnw? Pa fath o brosiectau y gallai’r £9 miliwn ychwanegol hwn ei ddarparu ar gyfer pob awdurdod lleol?

Jane Davidson spoken in English p. 35

Jane Davidson siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 35

All local authorities will continue to get their formula allocation at its current level with a slight increase. However, the £9 million will enable local authorities to tackle big projects that they have identified, which small authorities, in particular, could not tackle with their allocations of the capital spend. Nine million pounds could buy you five primary schools and most of a secondary school. This investment along with the substantial investment already going to local authorities—we already invest over £100 million a year—will give them flexibility on a needs basis as identified in their asset management plan. We are not only talking about political priorities, we are also talking about priorities in terms of children’s needs. The asset management plan is the driving force to ensure that they can use this additional spend. We are considering phasing in the investment over two years because these projects often take 18 months. Therefore, we do not want to restrict local authorities by requiring that all the money is spent in a year. We are being as flexible as possible, but it is a large amount of money to give a local authority and then allow it to get on with its major capital investment.

Bydd pob awdurdod lleol yn parhau i gael eu dyraniad fformiwla ar y lefel gyfredol gyda rhywfaint o gynnydd. Fodd bynnag, bydd y £9 miliwn yn galluogi awdurdodau lleol i fynd i’r afael â phrosiectau mawr a nodwyd ganddynt, na allai awdurdodau lleol, yn arbennig, fynd i’r afael â hwy gyda’u dyraniadau gwariant cyfalaf. Gallai naw miliwn o bunnoedd brynu pum ysgol gynradd a’r rhan fwyaf o ysgol uwchradd. Mae’r buddsoddiad hwn ynghyd â’r buddsoddiad sylweddol a wneir eisoes mewn awdurdodau lleol—yr ydym eisoes yn buddsoddi dros £100 miliwn y flwyddyn—yn rhoi hyblygrwydd iddynt ar sail anghenion fel y nodir yn eu cynllun rheoli asedau. Yr ydym yn sôn nid yn unig am flaenoriaethau gwleidyddol, ond am flaenoriaethau yn nhermau anghenion plant hefyd. Y cynllun rheoli asedau yw’r ysgogiad sy’n sicrhau y gallant ddefnyddio’r arian ychwanegol hwn. Yr ydym yn ystyried cyflwyno’r buddsoddiad yn raddol dros gyfnod o ddwy flynedd oherwydd mae prosiectau fel y rhain yn cymryd 18 mis i’w cwblhau yn aml. Felly, nid ydym am gyfyngu awdurdodau lleol drwy eu gorfodi i wario’r holl arian mewn blwyddyn. Yr ydym yn bod mor hyblyg â phosibl, ond mae’n swm mawr o arian i’w roi i awdurdod lleol ac yna ganiatáu iddo barhau â’i fuddsoddiad cyfalaf mawr.

Brian Gibbons spoken in English p. 36

Brian Gibbons siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 36

Janice Gregory mentioned the Plaid Cymru ‘spin machine’. We are used to that spin machine saying one thing in one part of Wales and something else in another part. Do you agree that it is a bit rich for Cynog Dafis to criticise the use of private finance initiative in schools when the Plaid Cymru local authority in Rhondda Cynon Taf has put forward the Operation Glyndŵr project for a Rethinking Construction best building award? The New Tredegar regeneration scheme was also put forward for a Rethinking Construction building award. That scheme includes the new school in Caerphilly County Borough Council, which is also run by Plaid Cymru. It is another case of Plaid Cymru saying one thing in one part of Wales and something else in another.

Soniodd Janice Gregory am ‘beiriant sbin’ Plaid Cymru. Yr ydym wedi hen arfer â’r peiriant sbin hwnnw yn dweud un peth mewn un rhan o Gymru a rhywbeth arall mewn rhan arall. A gytunwch ei bod yn eironig i Cynog Dafis feirniadu’r defnydd o’r fenter cyllid preifat mewn ysgolion pan fo awdurdod lleol Plaid Cymru yn Rhondda Cynon Taf wedi cyflwyno prosiect Ymgyrch Glyndŵr ar gyfer gwobr adeilad gorau Ailfeddwl am Adeiladu? Cyflwynwyd cynllun adfywio Tredegar Newydd hefyd ar gyfer gwobr adeiladu Ailfeddwl am Adeiladu. Mae’r cynllun hwnnw’n cynnwys yr ysgol newydd yng Nghyngor Bwrdeistref Sirol Caerffili, sydd hefyd yn cael ei redeg gan Blaid Cymru. Mae’n achos arall o Blaid Cymru’n dweud un peth mewn un rhan o Gymru a rhywbeth arall mewn rhan arall.

Dafydd Elis-Thomas The Presiding Officer spoken in English p. 36

Dafydd Elis-Thomas Y Llywydd siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 36

Order. I do not think that the Minister has any current responsibility for the Party of Wales.

Trefn. Ni chredaf fod gan y Gweinidog unrhyw gyfrifoldeb dros Blaid Cymru ar hyn o bryd.

Datganiad ar Gaffaeliad Allied Steel and Wire

Statement on the Acquisition of Allied Steel and Wire

Andrew Davies The Minister for Economic Development spoken in English p. 37

Andrew Davies Y Gweinidog dros Ddatblygu Economaidd siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 37

I promised Members that I would keep them briefed on the situation of the former Allied Steel and Wire plant. Therefore, I make this statement today to set out the current position on the acquisition by Celsa Group of the former Allied Steel and Wire Holdings PLC.

Addewais i’r Aelodau y byddwn yn para i’w diweddaru ar sefyllfa cyn waith Allied Steel and Wire. Felly, rhoddaf y datganiad hwn heddiw i nodi’r sefyllfa ar hyn o bryd ar gaffaeliad y cyn Allied Steel and Wire Holdings PLC gan Grŵp Celsa.

In my statement on 15 October, I indicated the actions and activities that the First Minister and I had undertaken during the period from the release of the ASW Chairman’s statement on 6 June 2002, to the appointment of receivers on 10 July. The company had no alternative other than to take that action following the withdrawal of support from their bankers.

Yn fy natganiad ar 15 Hydref, nodais y camau a’r gweithgareddau yr ymgymerodd y Prif Weinidog a minnau â hwy yn ystod y cyfnod o ryddhau datganiad Cadeirydd ASW ar 6 Mehefin 2002, hyd benodiad y derbynwyr ar 10 Gorffennaf. Nid oedd gan y cwmni unrhyw ddewis ond gweithredu ar ôl i’w bancwyr dynnu eu cefnogaeth yn ôl.

Since that time, the Welsh Assembly Government and its agencies have done everything possible within the strict state aid rules to assist those who have suffered as a result of ASW being placed in receivership. We have been especially concerned for the former ASW workers, who have not only lost well-paid jobs and generous redundancy packages, but also still face major concerns over their pension fund.

Ers hynny, gwnaeth Llywodraeth Cynulliad Cymru a’i hasiantaethau bopeth posibl o fewn y rheolau llym ynglŷn â nawdd y wladwriaeth i gynorthwyo’r rhai a ddioddefodd o ganlyniad i roi ASW yn nwylo’r derbynnydd. Buom yn pryderu’n arbennig am gyn-weithwyr ASW, sydd nid yn unig wedi colli swyddi a oedd yn talu’n dda a phecynnau diswyddo hael, ond sydd hefyd yn parhau i wynebu pryderon mawr ynglŷn â’u cronfa bensiwn.

The supreme effort of Team Wales delivered a package of assistance for former ASW workers comparable to that received by ex-Corus workers. In all, over 1000 people, comprising former ASW workers, their spouses and first line contractors received advice and assistance on retraining, benefits and job seeking. Many were helped to take up new careers where they so desired. We were also successful in our request to the UK Government to extend the deadline of the Iron and Steel Employees Readaptation Benefit scheme, thus ensuring that those who were eligible could claim the lump sum payment available to steel workers as a result of restructuring within the sector. We ensured that all other avenues of assistance, such as retraining and redundancy rights, were made available. However, we could not, regrettably, prevent the closure of the plant.

Cyflwynodd ymdrech fawr Tîm Cymru becyn cymorth tebyg ar gyfer cyn-weithwyr ASW â’r un a dderbyniodd cyn-weithwyr Corus. Yn gyfan gwbl, derbyniodd dros 1,000 o bobl, yn cynnwys cyn-weithwyr ASW, eu gwŷr neu eu gwragedd a chontractwyr rheng flaen, gyngor a chymorth ar ailhyfforddi, buddiannau a chwilio am swydd. Cynorthwywyd llawer i ddechrau ar yrfaoedd newydd lle yr oeddent yn dymuno hynny. Yr oeddem hefyd yn llwyddiannus yn ein cais i Lywodraeth y DU i ymestyn terfyn amser cynllun Budd-daliadau Gweithwyr Haearn a Dur, gan sicrhau drwy hynny fod y rhai a oedd yn gymwys yn gallu hawlio y cyfandaliad a oedd ar gael i weithwyr dur o ganlyniad i ailstrwythuro o fewn y sector. Gwnaethom sicrhau fod pob cymorth arall megis ailhyfforddi a hawliau diswyddo, yn cael eu darparu. Fodd bynnag, gresynwn na allem atal y gwaith rhag cau.

On Monday 11 November, ASW’s receivers—KPMG, announced that Celsa, a major Spanish steel-maker, was the prospective purchaser of ASW’s assets and had entered into exclusive negotiations. On 8 January, KPMG announced that Celsa had completed the purchase of the majority of ASW’s assets in Cardiff and some of its assets in Sheerness. Incidentally, at this time the future for Cardiff’s sister plant at Sheerness did not look positive. I am pleased to say that on 22 January, KPMG announced the sale of the remainder of the Sheerness plant to Thamesteel Ltd—a wholly owned UK subsidiary of Al-Ittefaq Steel Products Factory of Dammam, Saudi Arabia. I understand that billet production could restart at Sheerness within weeks.

Ar ddydd Llun 11 Tachwedd, cyhoeddodd KPMG—derbynwyr ASW mai Celsa, gwneuthurwr dur mawr o Sbaen, oedd darpar brynwr asedau ASW a’i fod wedi dechrau negodiadau gyda Celsa yn unig. Ar 8 Ionawr, cyhoeddodd KPMG fod Celsa wedi prynu mwyafrif asedau ASW yng Nghaerdydd a rhai o’i asedau yn Sheerness. Fel mae’n digwydd, ar yr adeg hon nid oedd dyfodol chwaer waith Caerdydd yn Sheerness yn ymddangos yn gadarnhaol. Yr wyf yn falch o ddweud bod KPMG ar 22 Ionawr wedi cyhoeddi bod gweddill gwaith Sheerness wedi’i werthu i Thamesteel Ltd—is gwmni a berchenogir yn llawn yn y DU i Ffatri Cynhyrchion Dur Al-Ittefaq o Dammam, Sawdi Arabia. Deallaf y gallai cynhyrchu bariau metel ailddechrau yn Sheerness o fewn wythnosau.

I welcomed the KPMG announcement on 8 Januaby, which confirmed that the purchase of the assets of ASW in Cardiff had been completed. The Welsh Assembly Government took a strong interest in this significant development. I also said that the first priority for Celsa over the coming months would be to finalise a detailed business plan for Cardiff. Celsa has not yet published this plan, but I am encouraged that Celsa’s principal management has emphasised that its preferred outcome would be to reopen the Cardiff works.

Croesewais gyhoeddiad KPMG ar 8 Ionawr, a gadarnhaodd bod asedau ASW yng Nghaerdydd wedi’u prynu. Cymerodd Llywodraeth Cynulliad Cymru ddiddordeb mawr yn y datblygiad arwyddocaol hwn. Dywedais hefyd mai’r flaenoriaeth gyntaf i Celsa dros y misoedd nesaf fyddai cwblhau cynllun busnes manwl ar gyfer Caerdydd. Nid yw Celsa hyd yn hyn wedi cyhoeddi’r cynllun hwn, ond fe’m calonogir bod uwch reolwyr Celsa wedi pwysleisio mai’r canlyniad a ffafrir ganddynt yw ailagor gwaith Caerdydd.

I share the views of the First Minister, who said that he remains optimistic that, if market conditions are appropriate, we will see the return of steel-making to Cardiff later this year. Celsa has reserved the right to reassign plant and equipment elsewhere, possibly even overseas, but I can only emphasise that Cardiff can offer Celsa a high-quality local skills base that is ready and waiting to be utilised, and the willingness of the Assembly, local government and public sector agencies to work with the company to bring the furnaces back to life.

Yr wyf yn cyd-fynd â’r Prif Weinidog, a ddywedodd ei fod yn parhau’n obeithiol y byddwn, os bydd amgylchiadau’r farchnad yn briodol, yn gweld dychweliad cynhyrchu dur i Gaerdydd yn ddiweddarach eleni. Mae Celsa wedi cadw’r hawl i adleoli peiriannau ac offer mewn mannau eraill, dramor o bosib hyd yn oed, ond ni allaf ond pwysleisio y gall Caerdydd gynnig sylfaen sgiliau o safon sy’n barod ac yn eiddgar i gael ei defnyddio a pharodrwydd y Cynulliad, llywodraeth leol ac asiantaethau sector cyhoeddus i weithio gyda’r cwmni i ail danio’r ffwrnesi.

I anticipate and trust that these significant elements, together with Celsa’s already significant financial commitment during its negotiations with ASW’s receivers and the preparation of its business plan, will ultimately commit Celsa to Cardiff. There will be many difficult questions to be answered. I hope that they will receive favourable answers. I am aware that the trade unions have many concerns; they have been expressed to me and to the First Minister in several meetings. I hope that discussions can take place between Celsa and the trade unions at a suitable time. The First Minister and I hope to meet Celsa’s senior management team when it comes to the UK in coming weeks.

Rhagwelaf a gobeithiaf y bydd yr elfennau arwyddocaol hyn, ynghyd ag ymrwymiad ariannol mawr Celsa yn barod yn ystod ei negodiadau â derbynwyr ASW a pharatoi ei gynllun busnes, yn y pen draw yn rhwymo Celsa i Gaerdydd. Bydd llawer o gwestiynau anodd o hyd i’w hateb. Gobeithiaf y cânt atebion ffafriol. Yr wyf yn ymwybodol fod gan yr undebau llafur lawer o bryderon; fe’u mynegwyd i mi ac i’r Prif Weinidog mewn sawl cyfarfod. Gobeithiaf y bydd trafodaethau yn gallu digwydd rhwng Celsa a’r undebau llafur ar adeg gyfleus. Gobeithia’r Prif Weinidog a minnau gwrdd ag uwch dîm rheoli Celsa pan ddaw i’r DU yn ystod yr wythnosau nesaf.

We have taken another step along the road to resurrecting steel-making in Cardiff, but other hurdles lie ahead. Steel-making continues to be a vital element of Welsh life, providing good quality jobs, directly and indirectly, and the industry is a significant contributor to the Welsh economy.

Yr ydym wedi cymryd cam arall ar hyd taith atgyfodi cynhyrchu dur yng Nghaerdydd, ond bydd rhwystrau eraill i’w hwynebu yn y dyfodol. Mae cynhyrchu dur yn parhau i fod yn elfen hollbwysig o fywyd Cymru, gan ddarparu swyddi ansawdd da, yn uniongyrchol ac anuniongyrchol, ac mae’r diwydiant yn gyfrannwr sylweddol i economi Cymru.

I would like, at this point, to mention that on Monday this week the First Minister and I attended the recommissioning ceremony of blast furnace No. 5 at Corus’s Port Talbot works. The Prince of Wales performed the official opening ceremony and commended Corus on the swift rebuild project—a world record for a blast furnace construction. The Prince of Wales also expressed his sympathy to the families of those who lost their lives and were injured in the tragic accident in November 2001.

Carwn yn y fan hon ddweud fod y Prif Weinidog a minnau ddydd Llun yr wythnos hon wedi mynychu seremoni ailgomisiynu ffwrnes chwyth Rhif 5 yng ngwaith Corus Port Talbot. Cyflawnwyd y seremoni agoriadol swyddogol gan Dywysog Cymru a chanmolodd Corus ar y prosiect ailadeiladu cyflym—record byd i adeiladu ffwrnes chwyth. Mynegodd Tywysog Cymru ei gydymdeimlad â theuluoedd y rhai hynny a gollodd eu bywydau ac a anafwyd yn y ddamwain drychinebus ym mis Tachwedd 2001.

The decision of the Corus board to rebuild the furnace at a cost of £75 million was crucial to the future operation of the Port Talbot works. This most welcome asset to the Corus plant demonstrates confidence in the Port Talbot operation, its skilled workforce and continued steel-making in Wales. We trust that Celsa will announce further encouraging news in coming weeks and we fervently hope that 2003 will continue to bring good news for all those who have an interest in the future of steel-making in Wales.

Mae penderfyniad bwrdd Corus i ailadeiladu’r ffwrnes ar gost o £75 miliwn yn hollbwysig i weithredu gwaith Port Talbot i’r dyfodol. Mae’r ased hwn i waith Corus, a groesewir yn fawr yn arddangos hyder yn y gwaith ym Mhort Talbot, ei weithlu medrus ac ym mharhad cynhyrchu dur yng Nghymru. Hyderwn y bydd Celsa yn cyhoeddi newyddion calonogol pellach yn yr wythnosau nesaf a gobeithiwn yn fawr y bydd 2003 yn parhau i ddod â newyddion da i bawb sydd â diddordeb yn nyfodol cynhyrchu dur yng Nghymru.

Owen John Thomas spoken in English p. 39

Owen John Thomas siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 39

I welcome this statement on Celsa’s continued interest in reopening the former ASW works in Cardiff. I also welcome the announcement that a lump sum payment was made to some of the former staff. It would be interesting to know how much, on average, the former employees received. It would also be interesting to know how many benefited from this payment and how many did not because they were not eligible.

Croesawaf y datganiad hwn ar barhad diddordeb Celsa mewn ailagor cyn-waith ASW yng Nghaerdydd. Croesawaf hefyd y cyhoeddiad bod cyfandaliad wedi ei roi i rai o’r cyn-staff. Byddai’n ddiddorol gwybod faint, ar gyfartaledd, a gafodd y cyn-gyflogeion. Byddai hefyd yn ddiddorol gwybod faint a gafodd y taliad hwn a faint o weithwyr na chawsant y taliad am nad oeddent yn gymwys.

You mentioned that the Sheerness plant will reopen, which is good news for the people of Sheerness. You also mentioned that the new company at Sheerness will produce billets. Will this company be in competition with a reopened ASW works under Celsa? That is a matter of great consequence.

Soniasoch y bydd gwaith Sheerness yn ailagor, sydd yn newyddion da i bobl Sheerness. Hefyd soniasoch y bydd y cwmni newydd yn Sheerness yn cynhyrchu bariau metel. A fydd y cwmni hwn yn cystadlu â gwaith ASW a allai gael ei ailagor o dan Celsa? Mae hynny yn fater o bwys mawr.

I welcome that Celsa continues to work on a detailed business plan, and that its preferred outcome is to set up business in Cardiff. I hope for early and good news on that. Cardiff has much to offer to Celsa. The experience of steel-making, and the skills and traditions that families have accumulated over generations, as well as the location of Cardiff itself, are great attractions. I hope that Celsa will go ahead with its plans in Cardiff.

Croesawaf fod Celsa yn parhau i weithio ar gynllun busnes manwl, ac mai’r canlyniad a ddymuna yw sefydlu ei fusnes yng Nghaerdydd. Gobeithaf y cawn newyddion buan a da ar hynny. Gall Caerdydd gynnig llawer i Celsa. Mae’r profiad o gynhyrchu dur a’r sgiliau a’r traddodiadau y mae teuluoedd wedi eu meithrin dros y cenedlaethau, ynghyd â’r lleoliad yng Nghaerdydd yn atyniadau mawr. Gobeithiaf y gwnaiff Celsa fynd rhagddo â’i gynlluniau i Gaerdydd.

I am pleased that the union will meet Celsa. That needs to happen as soon as possible so that union members can be given some comfort after their long and uncertain wait.

Yr wyf yn falch y bydd yr undeb yn cwrdd â Celsa. Mae angen i hynny ddigwydd cyn gynted â phosibl fel y gall aelodau undeb gael rhyw gysur ar ôl y disgwyl hir ac ansicr.

On the matter of the pension rights of the former Allied Steel and Wire staff, we should set aside party differences and work as one to achieve the best possible results for those former ASW staff. I urge you, Minister, and the First Minister, to take the message to Westminster that, as a National Assembly, we want the UK Government to act to secure the full pension rights of the former ASW staff. Those former employees are taking the Westminster Government to court for, shall we say, ‘minimalising’ the 1980 European directive on the fulfilment of pension rights in the case of firms going into liquidation. That matters have gone so far is a tragedy. That is why I urge you, Minister, to use the clout that the National Assembly has with regard to this matter, to go to London, and to come back and tell us that you have spoken to your colleagues in London and that they will deliver on those pensions. The sooner that that news comes, the better.

O ran hawliau pensiwn cyn-staff Allied Steel and Wire, dylem roi gwahaniaethau plaid o’r neilltu a gweithio fel un i gael y canlyniad gorau posibl i gyn-weithwyr ASW. Pwysaf arnoch, Weinidog, a’r Prif Weinidog, i fynd â’r neges i San Steffan, sef ein bod ni fel Cynulliad Cenedlaethol, am i Lywodraeth y DU weithredu i sicrhau hawliau pensiwn llawn i gyn-staff ASW. Mae’r cyn-gyflogeion hyn yn dwyn achos yn erbyn Llywodraeth San Steffan gan iddo, dyweder, ‘leihau effaith’ cyfarwyddeb Ewropeaidd 1980 ar gyflawni hawliau pensiwn yn achos cwmnïau sy’n mynd yn fethdalwyr. Mae’r ffaith bod pethau wedi mynd mor bell yn drychineb. Dyna pam y pwysaf arnoch, Weinidog, i ddefnyddio’r dylanwad sydd gan y Cynulliad Cenedlaethol o ran y mater hwn, i fynd i Lundain, ac i ddychwelyd a dweud wrthym eich bod wedi siarad â’ch cyd-aelodau yn Llundain ac y gwnânt gyflawni ar y pensiynau hynny. Po gyntaf y daw’r newyddion hwnnw gorau i gyd.

Andrew Davies spoken in English p. 41

Andrew Davies siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 41

You referred to the ISERB scheme; we have been pressing the case of those who were excluded from the ISERB scheme—that is, those who had been employed in the nails plant. We worked closely with the trade union to include as many workers at the nail plant as possible, given the flexible working practices at the plant. Regrettably, because of how the scheme operates, we were not able to get the nail plant workers included in the ISERB scheme.

Cyfeiriasoch at gynllun ISERB; yr ydym wedi bod yn ymgyrchu dros achos y rhai a eithriwyd o gynllun ISERB—hynny yw, y rhai a weithiai yn y gwaith hoelion. Buom yn gweithio’n agos gyda’r undeb llafur i gynnwys cynifer o weithwyr y gwaith hoelion â phosibl o gofio yr arferion gwaith hyblyg yn y gwaith. Yn anffodus, oherwydd y ffordd y gweithreda’r cynllun, nid oeddem yn gallu cynnwys gweithwyr y gwaith hoelion yng nghynllun ISERB.

We have yet to see any implications that the reopening of the Sheerness plant may have for the future viability of a Cardiff Celsa plant. Celsa has said that it will reopen subject to market conditions. Those conditions are among the issues that the First Minister and I will discuss with the company when it comes to Cardiff in the near future.

Amser a ddengys pa oblygiadau fydd i ailagor gwaith Sheerness o ran hyfywedd gwaith Celsa Caerdydd yn y dyfodol. Dywedodd Celsa y byddai’n ailagor yn amodol ar amgylchiadau’r farchnad. Mae’r amodau hynny ymhlith y materion y bydd y Prif Weinidog a minnau yn eu trafod gyda’r cwmni pan ddaw i Gaerdydd yn y dyfodol agos.

The trade union’s meeting with Celsa is a matter that we have discussed with the company. We would urge the company to meet the union, and understand that it is willing to do that. If those negotiations have not yet started, then they are to take place soon.

Mae cyfarfod yr undeb llafur gyda Celsa yn fater yr ydym wedi ei drafod gyda’r cwmni. Apeliwn ar y cwmni i gwrdd â’r undeb, a deallwn ei fod yn fodlon gwneud hynny. Os nad yw’r negodiadau hynny wedi dechrau eto, yna byddant yn digwydd yn fuan.

All Members are concerned about the issue of pensions. It is a non-devolved matter, but the First Minister and I have raised it with our colleagues in Whitehall. The First Minister has written to Andrew Smith, the Secretary of State for Work and Pensions. Local MPs such as Kevin Brennan and the MP for Aberavon, Hywel Francis, have also taken an interest in that issue. Other employees are faced with similar situations when companies go into receivership or out of business, and we are concerned about their pensions also. The Government’s Green Paper on the pensions industry and on the operation of pension schemes is crucial, and that issue is being considered within the remit of that Green Paper. We will continue to press the case of the Allied Steel and Wire workers and those of others, as we have always done.

Mae pob Aelod yn pryderu am fater y pensiynau. Mae’n fater nad yw wedi ei ddatganoli, ond mae’r Prif Weinidog a minnau wedi ei godi gyda’n cyd-aelodau yn San Steffan. Ysgrifennodd y Prif Weinidog at Andrew Smith, yr Ysgrifennydd Gwladol dros Waith a Phensiynau. Mae ASau lleol megis Kevin Brennan a’r AS dros Aberafon, Hywel Francis hefyd wedi dangos diddordeb yn y mater hwnnw. Mae cyflogeion eraill yn wynebu sefyllfa debyg pan fydd cwmnïau yn mynd i ddwylo’r derbynnydd neu i’r wal, ac yr ydym yn pryderu am eu pensiynau hwythau hefyd. Mae Papur Gwyrdd y Llywodraeth ar y diwydiant pensiynau a’r ffordd y mae cynlluniau pensiwn yn gweithredu yn hollbwysig, ac mae’r mater hwnnw’n cael ei ystyried o fewn cylch gwaith y Papur Gwyrdd hwnnw. Byddwn yn parhau i ddadlau dros achos gweithwyr Allied Steel and Wire ac eraill, fel y gwnaethom bob amser.

Lorraine Barrett spoken in English p. 42

Lorraine Barrett siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 42

I am pleased that steel-making will reopen in Sheerness. It would not be right to wish Sheerness anything other than good luck.

Yr wyf yn falch y bydd cynhyrchu dur yn ailddechrau yn Sheerness. Ni fyddai’n iawn peidio â dymuno lwc dda i Sheerness.

I appreciate that, until it signs off on its business plan, you must word your discussion of Celsa’s plans carefully. However, I urge you to do all that you can to ensure that steel-making returns to this plant, not least because the Cardiff South and Penarth constituency has the third highest level of residency unemployment in Wales. When you meet Celsa during the coming weeks, will you emphasise the goodwill that exists in Cardiff—from the trade unions, Cardiff County Council, the Assembly, yourself and the WDA—to ensure that this plant reopens for steel-making?

Gwerthfawrogaf fod yn rhaid ichi ddewis eich geiriau’n ofalus wrth drafod cynlluniau Celsa, hyd nes iddo ei roi ar ei wedd derfynol. Fodd bynnag, pwysaf arnoch i wneud yr hyn a fedrwch i sicrhau fod cynhyrchu dur yn dychwelyd i’r gwaith hwn, yn bennaf oherwydd bod gan etholaeth De Caerdydd a Phenarth y lefel uchaf ond dau o ddiweithdra preswyliol yng Nghymru. Pan fyddwch yn cyfarfod â Celsa yn ystod yr wythnosau nesaf, a wnewch chi bwysleisio yr ewyllys da sy’n bodoli yng Nghaerdydd—o blith yr unedebau llafur, Cyngor Sir Caerdydd, y Cynulliad, chi eich hun a’r WDA—i sicrhau fod y gwaith hwn yn ailagor i gynhyrchu dur?

Andrew Davies spoken in English p. 42

Andrew Davies siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 42

I give that commitment. We always made it clear that we felt that there was a viable operation at the ASW plant. That is why the First Minister and I made such a huge effort to try to keep ASW afloat—including holding a nine-hour meeting at the Department of Trade and Industry last year. We did everything that we could, within state aid rules, to maintain production at ASW. Regrettably, the banks and the credit insurers, because of their financial position, decided to cease keeping ASW afloat and it had to go into receivership.

Rhoddaf yr ymrwymiad hwnnw. Yr ydym bob amser wedi egluro ein bod yn credu bod busnes hyfyw yng ngwaith ASW. Dyna pam y gwnaeth y Prif Weinidog a minnau ymdrech mor fawr i geisio cadw ASW ar agor—yn cynnwys cynnal cyfarfod naw awr yn yr Adran Diwydiant a Masnach y llynedd. Gwnaethom bopeth a allem, o fewn rheolau nawdd y wladwriaeth i barhau â chynhyrchu yn ASW. Yn anffodus, penderfynodd y banciau a’r yswirwyr credyd, oherwydd eu sefyllfa ariannol, beidio â chadw ASW ar agor a bu’n rhaid iddo fynd i ddwylo’r derbynwyr.

We continue to talk to Celsa and the trade unions. The First Minister and I regularly discuss the developments at Celsa and Corus with the Iron and Steel Trades Confederation, both locally and at a UK level. In terms of a positive message, KPMG—when it was appointed and after it had been in operation for some months—said that it had never come across such a focused and dynamic response in any receivership that it had handled in the UK as that from Team Wales. It felt that it was receiving a positive message and that is the message that Celsa is also receiving. Therefore, within the constraints of the decision, and depending upon market conditions, we are, as the First Minister said, uquietly optimistic that steel production will restart this year.

Parhawn i siarad â Celsa a’r undebau llafur. Bydd y Prif Weinidog a minnau yn trafod y datblygiadau yn Celsa a Corus gyda’r Cydffederasiwn y Crefftau Haearn a Dur, yn lleol ac ar lefel y DU. O ran neges gadarnhaol, dywedodd KPMG—pan gafodd ei benodi ac ar ôl iddo fod ar waith am rai misoedd—nad oedd erioed mewn unrhyw achos yn y DU o gwmni yn mynd i ddwylo’r derbynnydd wedi cael profiad o ymateb mor bendant ac mor rymus â’r ymateb a gafwyd gan Tîm Cymru. Teimlai ei fod yn derbyn neges gadarnhaol a dyma’r neges y mae Celsa hefyd yn ei derbyn. Felly o fewn cyfyngiadau’r penderfyniad, ac yn dibynnu ar amgylchiadau’r farchnad, yr ydym, fel y dywedodd y Prif Weinidog, yn dawel obeithiol y bydd cynhyrchu dur yn ailddechrau eleni.

Alun Cairns spoken in English p. 43

Alun Cairns siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 43

I am grateful to you, Minister, for updating us on the Celsa plant and for the comments about blast furnace No. 5. There is little doubt that history will report that 2001 and 2002 saw the demise of the steel industry in Wales. On a positive note, I hope that this statement and the reopening of blast furnace No. 5 at Port Talbot offer a glimmer of hope that the devastating trend of the last two years will be reversed.

Yr wyf yn ddiolchgar ichi, Weinidog, am roi’r newyddion diweddaraf inni ar waith Celsa ac am eich sylwadau am ffwrnes chwyth Rhif 5. Nid oes fawr o ddadl na fydd hanes yn barnu bod 2001 a 2002 wedi gweld tranc y diwydiant dur yng Nghymru. Ar nodyn cadarnhaol, gobeithiaf y bydd y datganiad hwn ac ailagor ffwrnes chwyth Rhif 5 ym Mhort Talbot yn cynnig llygedyn o obaith y caiff tuedd ddinistriol y ddwy flynedd diwethaf ei gwyrdroi.

You mentioned that Cardiff is the preferred outcome for Celsa. Without breaching the confidentiality agreement that you no doubt have with Celsa, what other locations is it considering? The Confederation of British Industry survey that was discussed earlier today offers worrying news for the economy in Wales overall. When Celsa makes its business judgment, it will consider authoritative surveys, such as that of the CBI, in order to measure prosperity in Wales. It is no secret that the wealth gap between Wales and the rest of the UK continues to widen. All such factors will be considered. Bearing in mind that we are also losing large manufacturers to the former eastern block countries, can you tell us more about some of the other locations that Celsa is considering, so that we may know what competition we are up against?

Soniasoch mai ailagor gwaith Caerdydd yw’r canlyniad a ffefrir gan Celsa. Heb dorri’r cytundeb cyfrinachedd sydd gennych y mae’n siŵr gyda Celsa, pa leoliadau eraill y mae’n eu hystyried? Mae arolwg Cydffederasiwn Diwydiant Prydain a drafodwyd yn gynharach heddiw yn cynnig newyddion pryderus i’r economi yng Nghymru yn gyffredinol. Pan wna Celsa ei benderfyniad busnes, bydd yn ystyried arolygon awdurdodol megis un y CBI er mwyn mesur ffyniant yng Nghymru. Nid yw’n gyfrinach fod y bwlch cyfoeth rhwng Cymru a gweddill y DU yn parhau i ledu. Bydd pob ffactor felly yn cael eu hystyried. O gofio ein bod hefyd yn colli gwneuthurwyr mawr i wledydd y cyn floc dwyreiniol, a allwch ddweud mwy wrthym am rai o’r lleoliadau eraill y mae Celsa yn eu hystyried, fel y gallwn wybod pa gystadleuaeth yr ydym yn ei hwynebu?

Can you give us an update on the UK Government’s proposals to review pension legislation and what representations have you and the First Minister made on that? Have they fallen on deaf ears or does the UK Government propose to review this aspect of the legislation, particularly given that when the legislation was passed in the House of Commons it received support not only from the Conservative Government of the time, but also from the Labour opposition?

A allwch roi’r diweddaraf inni ar gynigion Llywodraeth y DU i adolygu deddfwriaeth bensiwn a pha sylwadau a wnaethoch chi a’r Prif Weinidog ar hynny? A gawsant eu hanwybyddu neu a yw Llywodraeth y DU yn cynnig adolygu’r agwedd hon ar y ddeddfwriaeth, yn arbennig o gofio pan basiwyd y ddeddfwriaeth yn Nhŷ’r Cyffredin iddo gael nid yn unig gefnogaeth Llywodraeth Geidwadol y dydd, ond hefyd gan yr wrthblaid, Llafur?

Andrew Davies spoken in English p. 43

Andrew Davies siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 43

I do not agree that 2001 saw the demise of the steel industry in Wales. There were significant difficulties and, if you break down the jobs that were lost in manufacturing by sector, then the metals industry took the biggest hit. That is not surprising given the redundancies at Corus, the closure of the Ebbw Vale plant, the redundancies at Llanwern and the events at ASW.

Ni chytunaf i 2001 weld tranc y diwydiant dur yng Nghymru. Cafwyd anawsterau sylweddol ac, os gwnewch chi ddadansoddiad o’r swyddi a gollwyd ym maes gweithgynhyrchu fesul sector, yna y diwydiant metel a gafodd yr ergyd drymaf. Nid yw hynny’n syndod o gofio’r diswyddiadau yn Corus, cau gwaith Glynebwy, y diswyddiadau yn Llanwern a’r digwyddiadau yn ASW.

There have been great difficulties. However, the First Minister and I, when we attended the recommissioning of blast furnace No. 5 on Monday, took the opportunity to talk to senior Corus executives, who were positive about the future of the steel industry in Wales. On the issue of ASW—now Celsa—we were always confident that it was a viable operation. It had a good rebar product for the construction industry. There is a large domestic and export market for that: for example, at Heathrow’s terminal 5 and the Channel tunnel rail link in the UK. That was why we were optimistic that, if ASW did not survive, a purchaser would step in as it would recognise the quality of the product and market demand. We still hold that view. Celsa will have to take account of the decisions of other operators in the UK and elsewhere. However, we still feel that there is a viable market for the rebar product.

Cafwyd anawsterau mawr. Fodd bynnag, manteisiodd y Prif Weinidog a minnau, pan wnaethom fynychu achlysur ailgomisiynu ffwrnes chwyth Rhif 5 ddydd Llun ar y cyfle i siarad ag uwch swyddogion gweithredol Corus, a oedd yn gadarnhaol am ddyfodol y diwydiant dur yng Nghymru. O ran ASW—Celsa bellach—yr oeddem bob amser yn hyderus ei fod yn fusnes hyfyw. Yr oedd ganddo gynnyrch gwifrau dur da ar gyfer y diwydiant adeiladu. Mae marchnad gartref a thramor ar gyfer hynny: er enghraifft, yn Nherfynfa 5 Heathrow a chyswllt twnel rheilffordd y Sianel yn y DU. Dyna pam yr oeddem yn obeithiol, pe na bai ASW yn goroesi, y byddai prynwr yn dod i’r adwy gan y byddai’n gweld ansawdd y cynnyrch a’r galw o ran y farchnad. Yr ydym yn coleddu’r farn honno o hyd. Bydd yn rhaid i Celsa ystyried penderfyniadau cwmnïau eraill yn y DU a mannau eraill. Fodd bynnag, teimlwn o hyd fod marchnad hyfyw i’r cynnyrch gwifrau dur.

On pensions, all I can do is to repeat what I said to Owen John: we have made strong representations to Whitehall, particularly to Andrew Smith and the Department for Work and Pensions, about these issues and employees whose pensions are affected when companies such as ASW go into receivership or out of business. Along with Welsh MPs, we will continue to make the case within the context of the Green Paper. We initially had meetings and correspondence on the issue of ASW pensions, but we will make formal representations in the context of the Green Paper to raise the issues that, I am sure, concern everyone in this Chamber.

O ran pensiynau, yr unig beth y gallaf ei wneud yw ailadrodd yr hyn a ddywedais wrth Owen John: yr ydym wedi cyflwyno sylwadau cryf yn San Steffan yn arbennig i Andrew Smith a’r Adran Gwaith a Phensiynau, am y materion hyn a’r cyflogeion yr effeithir ar eu pensiynau pan fydd cwmnïau megis ASW yn mynd i ddwylo’r derbynwyr neu i’r wal. Ar y cyd ag ASau o Gymru, byddwn yn parhau i roi’r achos o fewn cyd-destun y Papur Gwyrdd. Ar y dechrau cawsom gyfarfodydd a buom yn gohebu ar fater pensiynau ASW, ond byddwn yn gwneud sylwadau ffurfiol yng nghyd-destun y Papur Gwyrdd i godi’r materion, yr wyf yn sicr, sydd o bwys i bawb yn y Siambr hon.

Mick Bates spoken in English p. 44

Mick Bates siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 44

Thank you, Minister, for this statement. We all appreciate the uncertainty and anxiety that surround job losses and hope for a successful outcome to the work that you and officials have done in this regard. Most of us know of the commitment shown by this partnership Government and the WDA in retaining jobs or replacing those that are lost. I know of that from what has happened in my constituency. On ASW, I have three points. First—[Interruption.] I recall mention of a £10 fine for a mobile phone ringing in the Chamber. It is about time we paid to charity—

Diolch ichi, Weinidog, am eich datganiad. Yr ydym i gyd yn ymwybodol o’r ansicrwydd a’r pryder a ddaw yn sgîl colli swyddi ac yn gobeithio y bydd canlyniad llwyddiannus i’r gwaith yr ydych chi a swyddogion wedi ei wneud o ran hyn. Gŵyr y rhan fwyaf ohonom yr ymrwymiad a ddangosodd y Llywodraeth bartneriaeth hon a’r WDA mewn cadw swyddi neu gael rhai newydd yn lle’r rhai a gollwyd. Gwn am hynny o ganlyniad i’r hyn a ddigwyddodd yn fy etholaeth. O ran ASW, mae gennyf dri phwynt. Yn gyntaf—[Torri ar draws.] Cofiaf sôn am ddirwy £10 pe bai ffôn symudol yn canu yn y Siambr. Mae’n hen bryd inni dalu i elusen—

Dafydd Elis-Thomas The Presiding Officer spoken in English p. 45

Dafydd Elis-Thomas Y Llywydd siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 45

Order. I need no assistance in maintaining order. Get on with it, Mick Bates.

Trefn. Nid oes angen cymorth o gwbl arnaf i gadw trefn. Bwriwch ati, Mick Bates.

Mick Bates spoken in English p. 45

Mick Bates siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 45

I have three issues to raise. The first regards the site. I recall that there was mention of splitting the site and selling part of it. Is that still the case? Secondly, there have been problems with the pensions of former ASW employees who had left prior to the receivership. What is the current situation? Thirdly, how successful have the ELWa grants been in retraining those whose jobs were threatened or lost? In terms of a strategy on declining industries, what is being done to examine the sustainability of jobs in the steel industry so that we can plan for changes in future? Finally, are you and the Westminster Government considering how the industry can put together a contingency fund, as is done in America? There, companies pay towards a contingency fund so that, if a firm goes out of business, at least there is that to fall back on to help with pensions. That is the practical way to deal with that issue.

Codaf dri mater. Mae’r cyntaf yn ymwneud â’r safle. Cofiaf fod sôn wedi bod am rannu’r safle a gwerthu rhan ohono. Ai dyna’r sefyllfa o hyd? Yn ail, bu problemau gyda phensiynau cyn-weithwyr ASW a oedd wedi ymadael cyn i’r cwmni fynd i ddwylo’r derbynwyr. Beth yw’r sefyllfa ar hyn o bryd? Yn drydydd, pa mor llwyddiannus fu grantiau ELWa i ailhyfforddi y rhai yr oedd eu swyddi o dan fygythiad neu a gollwyd? O ran strategaeth ar ddiwydiannau sy’n crebachu, beth a wneir i archwilio cynaliadwyedd swyddi yn y diwydiant dur fel ein bod yn gallu cynllunio ar gyfer newid yn y dyfodol? Yn olaf, a ydych chi a Llywodraeth San Steffan yn ystyried sut gall y diwydiant sefydlu cronfa wrth gefn, fel y gwneir yn yr Unol Daleithiau? Yno bydd cwmnïau yn talu at gronfa wrth gefn fel y bydd y gronfa honno o leiaf ar gael i gynorthwyo â phensiynau os bydd cwmni yn methu. Dyna’r ffordd ymarferol i ymdrin â’r mater hwnnw.

Andrew Davies spoken in English p. 45

Andrew Davies siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 45

On the issue of the site, that was a commercial decision for the WDA and ASW and I will write to you with an update on that. I will also write on the matter of former employees’ pensions. On the ELWa training grants, the feedback from those employees who wanted to seek other employment, is that the support from Team Wales, whether through ELWa or Job Centre Plus, has been successful. We can learn much from major redundancies such as those at ASW and Corus. That issue was raised at a meeting of the steel taskforce, which is chaired by the First Minister.

O ran y safle, yr oedd hwnnw’n benderfyniad masnachol i’r WDA ac ASW a byddaf yn ysgrifennu atoch gyda’r diweddaraf ar hynny. Byddaf hefyd yn ysgrifennu ar fater pensiynau y cyn-weithwyr. O ran grantiau hyfforddi ELWa, yr adborth oddi wrth y cyflogeion a oedd am chwilio am gyflogaeth arall, yw bod cefnogaeth Tîm Cymru, boed hynny drwy ELWa neu Ganolfan Byd Gwaith, wedi bod yn llwyddiannus. Gallwn ddysgu llawer oddi wrth achosion o ddiswyddiadau niferus megis y rhai yn ASW a Corus. Codwyd y mater hwnnw mewn cyfarfod o’r tasglu dur, a gadeirir gan y Prif Weinidog.

I have raised with the trade unions and Team Wales this issue of how we can learn and establish best practice in terms of supporting people through the redundancy process, when redundancies, regrettably, arise. We have learned many lessons and we need to apply them. Training and careers advice are among the most important aspects of those lessons.

Codais y mater hwn, gyda’r undebau llafur a Tîm Cymru, o sut y gallwn ddysgu a sefydlu arfer gorau o ran cefnogi pobl drwy’r broses ddiswyddo, pan fydd diswyddiadau yn anffodus yn digwydd. Yr ydym wedi dysgu sawl gwers ac mae angen inni eu gweithredu. Mae cyngor hyfforddi a gyrfaoedd ymhlith yr agweddau mwyaf pwysig ar y gwersi hynny.

Sustainability is crucial. We feel that there is a long-term future for the steel industry in Wales, not just for ASW—now Celsa—but also for Corus. We are working with the Welsh Development Agency, companies and the trade unions to secure that long-term future. That is not just about investment decisions, but about helping with any training to ensure that the workforce is kept at the cutting edge of a technologically advanced industry.

Mae cynaliadwyedd yn hollbwysig. Teimlwn fod dyfodol hirdymor i’r diwydiant dur yng Nghymru, nid yn unig ASW—Celsa bellach—ond hefyd i Corus. Yr ydym yn gweithio gydag Awdurdod Datblygu Cymru, cwmnïau ac undebau llafur i sicrhau y dyfodol hirdymor hwnnw. Nid yw hyn yn ymwneud â phenderfyniadau buddsoddi yn unig, ond cynorthwyo gydag unrhyw hyfforddiant i sicrhau bod y gweithlu yn parhau i feddu ar y sgiliau diweddaraf mewn diwydiant sy’n dechnolegol flaengar.

On the issue of contingency funds, that is not a devolved matter. However, these funds are being considered in the context of Green Paper. There are massive financial implications to that, but it is one of the major issues that the Green Paper will address. We will make representations to the Government on the Green Paper in the light of what has happened at ASW.

O ran arian wrth gefn, nid yw hwnnw yn fater a ddatganolwyd. Fodd bynnag mae’r cronfeydd hyn yn cael eu hystyried mewn cysylltiad â’r Papur Gwyrdd. Mae goblygiadau ariannol enfawr i hynny, ond mae’n un o’r pynciau mawr y bydd y Papur Gwyrdd yn mynd i’r afael â hwy. Byddwn yn rhoi sylwadau i’r Llywodraeth ar y Papur Gwyrdd yn sgîl yr hyn a ddigwyddodd yn ASW.

Brian Hancock spoken in English p. 46

Brian Hancock siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 46

Thank you for the statement, Minister. I should declare that my father, brother and his son are all former employees of ASW. Fortunately, although my father is too old to work anymore, my brother has managed to retrain and his son has had one temporary job. If we have been successful in securing jobs and retraining for the former employees of the plant, we will not have enough skilled people to run the plant if it is reopened. The company must have had a successful order book, not just in terms of nail and the reinforcing bar products, but also in flat bar. What will happen to the market for that? I am led to believe that a market exists for that. Will you review the collapse? Given that you were confident in the industry—as I was—then should we not have been able to take action other than the state aids, which you have mentioned?

Diolch ichi am eich datganiad, Weinidog. Dylwn ddatgan bod fy nhad, fy mrawd a’i fab yntau oll yn gyn-gyflogeion ASW. Yn ffodus, er bod fy nhad yn rhy hen i weithio bellach, mae fy mrawd wedi llwyddo i ailhyfforddi ac mae ei fab wedi cael un swydd dros dro. Os buom yn llwyddiannus mewn sicrhau swyddi, ac ailhyfforddi cyn-gyflogeion y gwaith, ni fydd gennym ddigon o bobl â’r sgiliau i redeg y gwaith os caiff ei ailagor. Rhaid y bu gan y cwmni lyfr archebion llwyddiannus, nid yn unig o ran y cynnyrch hoelion a’r bariau metel atgyfnerthu ond hefyd mewn bariau gwastad. Beth a ddigwydd i’r farchnad ar gyfer hynny? Yr wyf ar ddeall bod marchnad ar gael i hynny? A wnewch chi adolygu’r methiant? O gofio eich bod â hyder yn y diwydiant—fel minnau—yna oni ddylem fod wedi gallu cymryd camau heblaw am nawdd y wladwriaeth, y sonioch amdano?

Andrew Davies spoken in English p. 47

Andrew Davies siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 47

We always felt that ASW produced a successful product, and that there was a significant market for it. Unfortunately, due to their financial position, the banks, financial institutions and credit insurers felt that they could not extend credit facilities to ASW any further. Therefore, ASW was forced into receivership. On reviewing the collapse, I have said today, and on other occasions, that we did everything that we could within European state aid rules to support ASW and keep it going as a viable concern. There are strict rules on direct financial assistance for the steel industry. We ensured that we followed those rules. We were openly criticised by many for not bending the rules, but we felt that we could not act unlawfully. We will review all that we can do to support companies such as ASW in the future, but we must work within the law. There are constraints on what we can do for industries such as steel and coal. In other industries, we have much more freedom.

Yr ydym wedi teimlo bob amser bod ASW wedi cynhyrchu cynnyrch llwyddiannus, a bod marchnad sylweddol iddo. Yn anffodus, oherwydd eu sefyllfa ariannol, teimlai’r banciau, sefydliadau ariannol ac yswirwyr credyd na allent roi rhagor o gredyd i ASW. Felly, gorfodwyd ASW i fynd i ddwylo’r derbynwyr. O ran adolygu’r methiant, dywedais heddiw, ac ar adegau eraill, ein bod wedi gwneud popeth a allem o fewn rheolau Ewrop ynglŷn â nawdd y wladwriaeth i gefnogi ASW a’i gadw fel busnes hyfyw. Mae rheolau llym ar gymorth ariannol uniongyrchol i’r diwydiant dur. Gwnaethom sicrhau ein bod yn glynu at y rheolau hynny. Cawsom ein beirniadu’n gyhoeddus gan lawer am inni beidio â phlygu’r rheolau, ond teimlem na allem weithredu’n anghyfreithlon. Byddwn yn adolygu popeth o fewn ein gallu i gynorthwyo cwmnïau megis ASW yn y dyfodol, ond rhaid inni weithio yn ôl y gyfraith. Mae cyfyngiadau ar yr hyn y gallwn ei wneud i ddiwydiannau megis dur a glo. Mewn diwydiannau eraill, mae gennym ragor o ryddid.

Pwyntiau o Drefn

Points of Order

David Ian Jones spoken in English p. 47

David Ian Jones siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 47

Point of order. I seek your guidance on Assembly Members’ relations with local authorities. I was recently consulted by a constituent in Ruthin whose land will be affected by the Mwrog Street flood alleviation scheme, which is a matter of considerable importance in Ruthin. After discussing the matter with the constituent, I approached the appropriate officer of Denbighshire County Council, which is responsible for carrying out the work, the Environment Agency Wales, which is the consultee to the project, and the appropriate official of the National Assembly, which is responsible for the funding. The purpose of my approach was to see whether there was any possibility of culverting part of the watercourse to enable the constituent to have access from the bottom of his land to the top of his land for stock and other agricultural purposes. I received a letter today from the chief executive of Denbighshire County Council, who writes inter alia:

Pwynt o drefn. Gofynnaf am eich arweiniad ar berthynas Aelodau’r Cynulliad ag awdurdodau lleol. Gofynnodd etholwr o Ruthun am gyngor gennyf yn ddiweddar. Effeithir ar ei dir gan gynllun lliniaru llifogydd Stryd Mwrog, sydd yn fater o bwys mawr yn Rhuthun. Ar ôl trafod y mater gyda’r etholwr, cysylltais â’r swyddog priodol ar Gyngor Sir Ddinbych, sy’n gyfrifol am wneud y gwaith, Asiantaeth yr Amgylchedd Cymru, sy’n ymgynghorai i’r prosiect, a’r swyddog priodol yn y Cynulliad Cenedlaethol, sy’n gyfrifol am ariannu’r cynllun. Y rheswm dros gysylltu â hwy oedd gweld a oedd posibilrwydd rhoi rhan o gwrs yr afon mewn ceuffos fel bo modd i’r etholwr gael mynediad o waelod ei dir, i ben uchaf ei dir, ar gyfer stoc a dibenion amaethyddol eraill. Derbyniais lythyr heddiw oddi wrth brif weithredwr Cyngor Sir Ddinbych, sy’n ysgrifennu ymhlith pethau eraill:

‘I understand that some Assembly Members have been in discussions with landowners which might have led the landowners to think that substantial changes to the scheme will be accommodated. I would respectfully remind you that none of the local or regional Assembly Members has any executive powers in respect of this matter. The Assembly Government has supported the scheme and the funding for it, and planning permission is in place. The council is not in a position therefore to incorporate changes, such as provision of additional culverting, bridges, etc., which would add to the cost of the scheme—any such changes would require the approval of the Assembly Government, both in principle and in respect of funding, and would delay progress. I would therefore ask you to consider very carefully what you say to landowners if they approach you for assistance.’

Deallaf fod rhai Aelodau Cynulliad wedi bod mewn trafodaethau gyda thirfeddianwyr a all fod wedi peri i’r tirfeddianwyr gredu y gellir cynnwys newidiadau sylweddol yn y cynllun. Carwn eich atgoffa’n garedig nad oes gan unrhyw Aelod Cynulliad, lleol na rhanbarthol, bwerau gweithredol o ran y mater hwn. Mae Llywodraeth y Cynulliad wedi cefnogi’r cynllun, a’r arian ar ei gyfer, ac mae caniatâd cynllunio wedi’i roi. Nid yw’r cyngor mewn sefyllfa i ymgorffori newidiadau, megis darparu ceuffosydd ychwanegol, pontydd, ac ati, a fyddai’n ychwanegu at gost y cynllun—byddai’n rhaid i newidiadau o’r fath gael cytundeb Llywodraeth y Cynulliad, mewn egwyddor, ac o ran ariannu, a byddai’n arafu’r gwaith. Felly byddwn yn gofyn ichi ystyried yn ofalus yr hyn a ddywedwch wrth dirfeddianwyr os cysylltir â chi am gymorth.

The tone and content of that letter leads me to believe that the chief executive objects to my pursuing a matter of proper concern to the constituent, and is seeking to influence me and inhibit how I may deal with others. I would be grateful to receive your guidance, Presiding Officer, as to the propriety of the chief executive’s letter, and as to whether I or any other Assembly Member should feel inhibited, for whatever reason, from pursuing the legitimate interests of constituents in such circumstances.

Mae naws a chynnwys y llythyr hwnnw yn peri imi gredu bod y prif weithredwr yn gwrthwynebu fy mod yn dilyn mater sydd yn bryder gwirioneddol i’m hetholwr, a’i fod yn ceisio dylanwadu arnaf a chyfyngu ar y modd y gallaf ymdrin ag eraill. Byddwn yn falch o gael eich arweiniad, Lywydd, ynglŷn â phriodoldeb llythyr y prif weithredwr, ac a ddylwn i neu unrhyw Aelod Cynulliad arall deimlo o dan bwysau, am unrhyw reswm, i beidio â mynd ar drywydd buddiannau dilys etholwyr mewn amgylchiadau o’r fath.

Dafydd Elis-Thomas The Presiding Officer spoken in English p. 48

Dafydd Elis-Thomas Y Llywydd siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 48

I am grateful to you for allowing me to see this letter earlier today. Letters of this kind to Assembly Members who are pursuing matters that affect their constituencies, are not helpful. This particular letter, as you indicated, refers to a scheme that has been supported financially and in principle by the Welsh Assembly Government. It is right and proper that Assembly Members should be able to take up any matters of interest to their constituents as they see fit, exercising their rights as democratic representatives of the people of Wales. I urge all Members to resist any attempts to dissuade them from doing so.

Yr wyf yn ddiolchgar ichi am ganiatáu imi weld y llythyr hwn yn gynharach heddiw. Nid yw llythyron o’r fath at Aelodau Cynulliad sy’n mynd ar drywydd materion sy’n effeithio ar eu hetholaethau o gymorth o gwbl. Mae’r llythyr arbennig hwn, fel y dywedasoch, yn cyfeirio at gynllun a gefnogwyd yn ariannol ac mewn egwyddor gan Lywodraeth Cynulliad Cymru. Mae’n gwbl briodol bod Aelodau Cynulliad yn gallu codi materion sydd o ddiddordeb i’w hetholwyr, fel y gwelant yn dda, gan arfer eu hawliau fel cynrychiolwyr democrataidd pobl Cymru. Pwysaf ar bob Aelod i wrthsefyll unrhyw ymdrechion i’w darbwyllo rhag gwneud hynny.

Alun Cairns spoken in English p. 49

Alun Cairns siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 49

Further to this point of order—

Ymhellach i’r pwynt o drefn hwn—

Dafydd Elis-Thomas The Presiding Officer spoken in English p. 49

Dafydd Elis-Thomas Y Llywydd siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 49

Order. I do not believe that there is anything further to this point of order.

Trefn. Ni chredaf fod unrhyw beth pellach i’r pwynt o drefn hwn.

Alun Cairns spoken in English p. 49

Alun Cairns siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 49

This relates to a similar incident. The leader of a local authority in the South Wales West region has rejected any communications from regional Assembly Members—I am not sure what the position regarding constituency Members is—for similar reasons. That leader has insisted, in spite of its breaching the Data Protection Act 1998, that communications be copied to the ward councillor so that they may act on the constituent’s behalf, despite the fact that some of this information can be personal and sensitive. I seek your guidance on that, Llywydd.

Mae hyn yn ymwneud â digwyddiad tebyg. Mae arweinydd awdurdod lleol yn rhanbarth Gorllewin De Cymru wedi gwrthod unrhyw ohebiaeth gan Aelodau Cynulliad rhanbarthol—nid wyf yn siŵr beth yw’r sefyllfa o ran Aelodau etholaethol—am resymau tebyg. Mae’r arweinydd hwnnw wedi mynnu, er gwaetha’r ffaith ei fod yn torri Deddf Diogelu Data 1998, bod copïau o ohebiaeth yn cael eu rhoi i gynghorwr y ward er mwyn iddynt hwy weithredu ar ran yr etholwr, er gwaetha’r ffaith y gall rhannau o’r wybodaeth fod yn bersonol ac yn sensitif. Gofynnaf am eich arweiniad ar hynny, Lywydd.

Dafydd Elis-Thomas The Presiding Officer spoken in English p. 49

Dafydd Elis-Thomas Y Llywydd siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 49

All Assembly Members are equal, whether we are elected to represent constituencies or electoral regions. We are all equally able to pursue cases or issues in the interests of constituents. If Members have difficulty in obtaining replies to letters, I would encourage them to keep writing.

Mae pob Aelod Cynulliad yn gydradd, boed iddynt gael eu hethol i gynrychioli etholaethau neu ranbarthau etholaethol. Mae gan bob un ohonom yr un hawl i fynd ar drywydd achosion neu faterion er budd etholwyr. Os caiff Aelodau anhawster i gael atebion i lythyrau, anogaf hwy i ddal ati i ysgrifennu.

Peter Rogers spoken in English p. 49

Peter Rogers siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 49

Thank you for that, Presiding Officer. Further to this point of order, as chairman of the North Wales Regional Committee, I wish to raise the fact that this matter was raised with the First Minister at the Committee’s meeting in Ruthin last week. His response was positive and supportive. The chief executive of Denbighshire County Council, who is new to his post, should be reminded of his responsibilities.

Diolch ichi am hynny, Lywydd. Ymhellach i’r pwynt o drefn hwn, fel cadeirydd Pwyllgor Rhanbarth y Gogledd, hoffwn godi’r ffaith fod y mater hwn wedi ei ddwyn i sylw’r Prif Weinidog yng nghyfarfod y Pwyllgor yn Rhuthun yr wythnos diwethaf. Yr oedd ei ymateb yn gadarnhaol ac yn gefnogol. Dylai prif weithredwr Cyngor Sir Ddinbych, sydd yn newydd i’w swydd, gael ei atgoffa o’i gyfrifoldebau.

Andrew Davies spoken in English p. 49

Andrew Davies siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 49

I speak as an Assembly Member rather than as a Minister. The Speaker of the House of Commons has ruled on the disclosure of correspondence to a third party when MPs write to local authorities. I would be grateful if you would consider that ruling, Presiding Officer, and whether you feel that it applies to the Assembly and to Assembly Members. I do not see any distinction between the conditions that apply to Members of Parliament and those that apply to us.

Siaradaf fel Aelod Cynulliad yn hytrach na Gweinidog. Dyfarnodd Llefarydd Tŷ’r Cyffredin ar ddatgelu gohebiaeth i drydydd parti pan fydd ASau yn ysgrifennu at eu hawdurdodau lleol. Byddwn yn ddiolchgar pe baech yn ystyried y dyfarniad hwnnw, Lywydd, ac a deimlwch ei fod yn berthnasol i’r Cynulliad ac i Aelodau’r Cynulliad. Ni welaf unrhyw wahaniaeth rhwng yr amodau sy’n gymwys i Aelodau Seneddol a’r rheini sy’n gymwys i ni.

Dafydd Elis-Thomas The Presiding Officer spoken in English p. 50

Dafydd Elis-Thomas Y Llywydd siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 50

I am grateful to you for raising that point. I will discuss the matter and return to it.

Yr wyf yn ddiolchgar ichi am godi’r pwynt hwnnw. Byddaf yn trafod y mater hwn ac yn dychwelyd ato.

Eleanor Burnham spoken in English p. 50

Eleanor Burnham siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 50

Further to this point of order, you will remember that I spoke with you some months ago about a similar issue—

Ymhellach i’r pwynt o drefn hwn, byddwch yn cofio imi siarad â chi rai misoedd yn ôl am fater tebyg—

Dafydd Elis-Thomas The Presiding Officer spoken in English p. 50

Dafydd Elis-Thomas Y Llywydd siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 50

I have no recollection of any conversations that happened many months ago.

Nid oes gennyf unrhyw gof am unrhyw sgyrsiau a ddigwyddodd fisoedd lawer yn ôl.

Eleanor Burnham spoken in English p. 50

Eleanor Burnham siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 50

It relates to the situation of regional Members. I also feel that we are treated as second-class citizens with regard to certain regional issues. Further to your advice to other Members, would it be appropriate for guidance to be sent from the Assembly to local authorities regarding the treatment of regional Members? I await your guidance, Llywydd. In the main, we have a good relationship with local authority chief executives—I am lucky. However, in certain respects it seems that we are often sidestepped or overlooked.

Mae’n ymwneud â sefyllfa Aelodau rhanbarthol. Teimlaf finnau ein bod yn cael ein trin fel dinasyddion eilradd o ran rhai materion rhanbarthol. Yn dilyn eich cyngor i Aelodau eraill, a fyddai’n briodol i arweiniad gael ei anfon o’r Cynulliad at awdurdodau lleol ynglŷn â’r modd y caiff aelodau rhanbarthol eu trin? Disgwyliaf am eich arweiniad, Lywydd. Ar y cyfan, mae gennym berthynas dda gyda phrif weithredwyr awdurdodau lleol—yr wyf fi’n ffodus. Fodd bynnag, mewn sawl ystyr ymddengys ein bod yn cael ein diystyru a’n hanwybyddu yn aml.

Dafydd Elis-Thomas The Presiding Officer spoken in English p. 50

Dafydd Elis-Thomas Y Llywydd siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 50

I cannot imagine that you could possibly be overlooked by anyone, Eleanor Burnham. The discussion we had related to invitations to events, if I remember correctly. It is important and is in the interests of all of us, and, indeed, is to the advantage of local authorities, commercial undertakings, public bodies, or whoever is organising events, that they should invite as many Assembly Members as possible so that views are properly represented across the board. I am grateful for that contribution. I will call Alun Pugh and then we must close this point down.

Ni allaf ddychmygu y gallech gael eich anwybyddu o gwbl gan unrhyw un, Eleanor Burnham. Yr oedd y drafodaeth a gawsom yn ymwneud â gwahoddiadau, os y cofiaf yn iawn. Mae’n bwysig, ac mae o fantais i bob un ohonom, ac, yn wir, mae er budd awdurdodau lleol, busnesau masnachol, cyrff cyhoeddus, neu pwy bynnag sy’n trefnu digwyddiadau, eu bod yn gwahodd cynifer o Aelodau Cynulliad â phosibl fel bod safbwyntiau yn cael eu cynrychioli’n gywir yn gyffredinol. Yr wyf yn ddiolchgar am y cyfraniad hwnnw. Galwaf ar Alun Pugh ac yna rhaid inni roi terfyn ar y pwynt hwn.

Alun Pugh spoken in English p. 50

Alun Pugh siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 50

I would not want to prevent the right of regional Assembly Members to raise such matters. However, many of my constituents cannot sleep at night every time it rains, and I would not want any alliance of Tories, or last-ditch actions by landowners, to get in the way of this much-needed Assembly-funded scheme.

Ni fyddwn am atal hawl Aelodau Cynulliad rhanbarthol i godi materion o’r fath. Fodd bynnag, mae llawer o’m hetholwyr yn methu â chysgu bob tro y bydd hi’n bwrw glaw, ac ni fyddwn am i unrhyw gynghrair o Dorïaid, neu gamau munud olaf gan dirfeddianwyr arafu’r cynllun hwn a ariennir gan y Cynulliad, y mae ei fawr angen.

Dafydd Elis-Thomas The Presiding Officer spoken in English p. 51

Dafydd Elis-Thomas Y Llywydd siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 51

Order. I regret that that was not at all relevant to the point of order.

Trefn. Mae’n ddrwg gennyf nad oedd hynny yn berthnasol o gwbl i’r pwynt o drefn.

Alun Cairns spoken in English p. 51

Alun Cairns siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 51

Point of order. You are aware, Llywydd, that it is customary for Members to receive e-mailed copies of ministerial statements as Ministers are due to start their speeches. The Minister for Economic Development’s staff were helpful regarding the statement on Allied Steel and Wire this afternoon, which was received on time. However, it was well beyond halfway through the half-hour period that we received the statement on school buildings. I seek your guidance.

Pwynt o drefn. Yr ydych yn ymwybodol, Lywydd, ei bod yn arferol i Aelodau gael copïau e-bost o ddatganiadau gweinidogol pan fydd Gweinidogion ar fin dechrau eu hareithiau. Rhoddodd staff y Gweinidog dros Ddatblygu Economaidd bob cymorth ynglŷn â datganiad Allied Steel and Wire y prynhawn yma, a ddaeth i law yn brydlon. Fodd bynnag, yr oedd yn bell dros hanner ffordd drwy’r cyfnod hanner awr cyn inni gael y datganiad ar adeiladau ysgolion. Gofynnaf am eich arweiniad.

Dafydd Elis-Thomas The Presiding Officer spoken in English p. 51

Dafydd Elis-Thomas Y Llywydd siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 51

I also received an e-mail from Elin Jones during that statement drawing my attention to this matter. It appears that the Minister for Education and Lifelong Learning’s statement was e-mailed to Assembly Members directly, and not to their seats in the Chamber as the other statement was. I assume that this is an oversight, and I am certain that the Business Minister will remind his officials to ensure that statements are e-mailed to Members in the Chamber. I see that the Business Minister is nodding in assent.

Derbyniais e-bost hefyd oddi wrth Elin Jones yn ystod y datganiad hwnnw yn tynnu fy sylw at y mater hwn. Ymddengys fod datganiad y Gweinidog dros Addysg a Dysgu Gydol Oes wedi ei e-bostio at Aelodau’r Cynulliad yn uniongyrchol, ac nid i’w seddau yn y Siambr fel a wnaed â’r datganiad arall. Tybiaf mai camgymeriad oedd hyn, ac yr wyf yn siŵr y bydd y Trefnydd yn atgoffa ei swyddogion i sicrhau y caiff datganiadau eu hanfon drwy’r e-bost i Aelodau yn y Siambr. Gwelaf fod y Trefnydd yn nodio ei fod yn cytuno.

Cymeradwyo Canllawiau Polisi Rheoli Ansawdd Aer Lleol a Chanllawiau Technegol

Approval of the Local Air Quality Management Policy Guidance and Technical Guidance

Sue Essex The Minister for Environment spoken in English p. 51

Sue Essex Y Gweinidog dros yr Amgylchedd siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 51

I propose that

Cynigiaf fod

Sue Essex The Minister for Environment (continued) spoken in English p. 51

Sue Essex Y Gweinidog dros yr Amgylchedd (parhad) siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 51

These documents underline our commitment to improving air quality in Wales. They will help local authorities as they progress their local air quality management duties under the Environment Act 1995. The current local air quality management system was introduced in 1997. It has become one of the main mechanisms for working towards achieving the air quality objectives for seven key pollutants outlined in the air quality strategy for England, Scotland, Wales and Northern Ireland, which was published in 2000.

Tanlinella’r dogfennau hyn ein hymrwymiad i wella ansawdd aer yng Nghymru. Byddant yn helpu awdurdodau lleol i gyflawni eu dyletswyddau rheoli ansawdd aer o dan Ddeddf yr Amgylchedd 1995. Cyflwynwyd y system rheoli ansawdd aer lleol gyfredol yn 1997. Daeth yn un o’r prif ffyrdd o weithio tuag at amcanion ansawdd aer ar gyfer y saith llygrwr allweddol a amlinellwyd yn y strategaeth ansawdd aer ar gyfer Cymru, Lloegr, yr Alban a Gogledd Iwerddon, a gyhoeddwyd yn 2000.

Under the system of local air quality management, local authorities are required to periodically review and assess the current and future quality of air in their areas against those strategy objectives that have been prescribed by the National Assembly in regulations. Where objectives are unlikely to be met, an air quality management area must be declared. Previous guidance in 1997 and 2000 advised authorities on how to take forward the first round of local air quality management. That round has now been completed and we need to inform local authorities of what is now required of them to maintain and improve on the work that they have done to improve air quality in Wales. The two guidance documents presented today update previous guidance to reflect changes to the air strategy, and scientific developments for monitoring, measuring and modelling air pollutants.

O dan y system rheoli ansawdd aer lleol, mae’n ofynnol i awdurdodau lleol adolygu ac asesu ansawdd aer presennol eu hardaloedd ac ansawdd aer yn y dyfodol yn gyfnodol yn erbyn yr amcanion hynny yn y strategaeth a ragnodwyd mewn rheoliadau gan y Cynulliad Cenedlaethol. Lle mae’n annhebygol y caiff amcanion eu cyflawni, rhaid datgan ardal rheoli ansawdd aer. Yng nghanllawiau blaenorol 1997 a 2000 cynghorwyd awdurdodau ar sut i gyflawni’r cylch cyntaf o reoli ansawdd aer lleol. Cwblhawyd y cylch hwnnw erbyn hyn ac mae angen inni hysbysu awdurdodau lleol o’r hyn y mae’n rhaid iddynt ei wneud bellach i barhau â’r gwaith a wnaed ganddynt i wella ansawdd aer yng Nghymru ac i ragori ar y gwaith hwnnw. Mae’r ddwy ddogfen ganllaw a gyflwynir heddiw yn diweddaru’r canllawiau blaenorol i ystyried newidiadau i’r strategaeth aer, a datblygiadau gwyddonol ym maes monitro, mesur a modelu llygrwyr aer.

Review and assessment should now occur in two steps. First, there should be an updating and screening assessment, which will require local authorities to reassess air quality levels since the last review round for instances of increased emissions and new pollution sources. There should then be a second, more detailed assessment for those authorities where screening indicates that the objectives are unlikely to be met on time. The new system provides a long-term vision for local air quality management with revised timetables for local authorities up to 2010, a focus on review and assessment every three years, and the submission of an annual progress report. This will ensure early identification of those areas facing air quality difficulties in the future, while helping to ensure that atmospheric pollution maintains a high profile at grass-roots level. The technical guidance has also been revised to make it easier to follow and update to correspond to the latest scientific research and working practices. I commend the motion.

Bellach, dylid adolygu ac asesu mewn dau gam. Yn gyntaf, dylid gwneud asesiad diweddaru a sgrinio, lle bydd yn ofynnol i awdurdodau lleol ailasesu lefelau ansawdd aer ers y cylch adolygu diwethaf ar gyfer achosion o fwy o ollyngiadau a ffynonellau newydd o lygredd. Yna dylai’r awdurdodau hynny, lle y noda’r broses sgrinio nad yw’n debygol y caiff yr amcanion eu cyflawni ar amser, wneud ail asesiad manylach. Mae’r system newydd yn rhoi gweledigaeth hirdymor ar gyfer rheoli ansawdd aer lleol gydag amserlenni diwygiedig ar gyfer awdurdodau lleol hyd at 2010, mae’n canolbwyntio ar adolygu ac asesu bob tair blynedd, a chyflwyno adroddiad cynnydd blynyddol. Bydd hyn yn sicrhau y caiff yr ardaloedd hynny sy’n wynebu anawsterau o ran ansawdd aer yn y dyfodol eu nodi’n gynnar, tra’n helpu i sicrhau bod gan lygredd atmosfferig broffil uchel ar lawr gwlad. Diwygiwyd y canllawiau technegol hefyd i’w gwneud yn haws eu dilyn a’u diweddaru i gyfateb â’r ymchwil wyddonol a’r arferion gwaith diweddaraf. Cymeradwyaf y cynnig.

Janet Davies spoken in English p. 53

Janet Davies siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 53

Plaid Cymru will support this proposal, but I want to question whether standards are sufficiently rigorous and whether it is not time to apply more pressure and to encourage authorities to aim for better standards. It is important to reduce PM10 emissions in order to improve the environment and reduce the effects on people’s health. The Minister has said that although there is strong justification for adopting more stringent standards on PM10 emissions, there is insufficient scientific information at present. When are we likely to have these standards? It is important that we try to get to grips with this. Perhaps it would be a good idea to set up an advisory group in the Assembly to provide feedback on these detailed issues relating to air quality. We currently receive advice on co-ordination from the University of the West of England. Is that advice satisfactory?

Bydd Plaid Cymru yn cefnogi’r cynnig hwn, ond hoffwn ofyn a yw’r safonau yn ddigon trwyadl ac onid yw’n bryd rhoi mwy o bwysau ar awdurdodau a’u hannog i anelu at safonau gwell. Mae’n bwysig lleihau gollyngiadau PM10 er mwyn gwella’r amgylchedd a lleihau’r effeithiau ar iechyd pobl. Dywedodd y Gweinidog, er bod cryn gyfiawnhad dros fabwysiadu safonau llymach ynglŷn â gollyngiadau PM10, nad oes digon o wybodaeth wyddonol ar hyn o bryd. Pryd y byddwn yn debygol o gael y safonau hyn? Mae’n bwysig inni geisio mynd i’r afael â hyn. Efallai y byddai’n syniad da pe bai grŵp ymgynghorol yn cael ei sefydlu yn y Cynulliad i roi adborth ar y materion manwl hyn sy’n ymwneud ag ansawdd aer. Ar hyn o bryd yr ydym yn cael cyngor ar gydgysylltu gan Brifysgol Gorllewin Lloegr. A yw’r cyngor hwnnw yn foddhaol?

David Davies spoken in English p. 53

David Davies siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 53

We are also delighted to welcome these initiatives, as we welcome any measures to improve the quality of the air that we breathe. That is vital, not only in terms of people’s health—it is well documented that bad air quality affects people’s health—but also in terms of removing negative perceptions about industries that are, or will be, located in a given area.

Yr ydym hefyd yn falch o groesawu’r mentrau hyn, fel y croesawn unrhyw fesurau i wella ansawdd yr aer a anadlwn. Mae hynny yn hollbwysig, nid yn unig o ran iechyd pobl—ceir cryn dystiolaeth bod ansawdd aer gwael yn effeithio ar iechyd pobl—ond hefyd o ran chwalu’r canfyddiadau negyddol ynglŷn â diwydiannau a leolir neu a gaiff eu lleoli mewn ardal benodol.

I must mention cars because I know that the Minister for Environment is bringing forward legislation to check emissions from motor vehicles more rigorously. I do not need to remind her that, over the last 20 years, tremendous technological developments have greatly reduced emissions produced by motor vehicles. We will consider the new legislation carefully when it comes before the Assembly. It will enable local authorities to pull cars over and check them. We are inclined to support such a measure because there are still too many cars on the road that, either through age or not being serviced regularly, emit too many pollutants. Therefore, we will support the measure before us today and consider positively any further measures that you will bring forward to improve air quality.

Rhaid imi grybwyll ceir oherwydd gwn fod y Gweinidog dros yr Amgylchedd yn cyflwyno deddfwriaeth ynglŷn â gwirio gollyngiadau o gerbydau modur yn fwy trwyadl. Nid oes angen imi ei hatgoffa bod gollyngiadau o gerbydau modur wedi gostwng yn sylweddol yn sgîl datblygiadau technolegol enfawr yn ystod y 20 mlynedd diwethaf. Byddwn yn ystyried y ddeddfwriaeth newydd yn ofalus pan ddaw gerbron y Cynulliad. Bydd yn galluogi awdurdodau lleol i stopio ceir a’u gwirio. Yr ydym yn barod i gefnogi mesur o’r fath am fod gormod o geir o hyd ar y ffyrdd sy’n gollwng gormod o lygrwyr naill ai am eu bod yn hen neu am nad ydynt yn cael gwasanaeth rheolaidd. Felly, cefnogwn y mesur ger ein bron heddiw a byddwn yn ystyried unrhyw fesurau pellach a gyflwynwch i wella ansawdd aer mewn modd cadarnhaol.

Brian Gibbons spoken in English p. 54

Brian Gibbons siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 54

I too welcome these regulations. We all recognise that there have been dramatic improvements in air quality standards over recent decades. However, there are no grounds for complacency. To address Janet Davies’s points, there was an excellent paper in The Lancet last October considering the effects of pollution and air quality on ill health. That paper estimated that out of every 1 million people in northern Europe, around 537 die as a result of the effects of air pollution. Fifty per cent of those deaths are due to motor vehicle pollutants.

Croesawaf y rheoliadau hyn hefyd. Yr ydym oll yn cydnabod bod gwelliannau sylweddol wedi bod mewn safonau ansawdd aer yn ystod y blynyddoedd diwethaf. Fodd bynnag, nid oes lle i fod yn hunanfodlon. I ymdrin â phwyntiau Janet Davies, cyhoeddwyd papur ardderchog yn The Lancet fis Hydref diwethaf a oedd yn ystyried effeithiau llygredd ac ansawdd aer ar salwch. Yn y papur hwnnw amcangyfrifwyd bod tua 537 o bobl o bob miliwn o bobl yng ngogledd Ewrop yn marw o ganlyniad i effeithiau llygredd aer. Gellir priodoli 50 y cant o’r marwolaethau hynny i lygrwyr o gerbydau modur.

David Davies spoken in English p. 54

David Davies siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 54

I did not see that article, but I remember reading a similar article at the time. The statistics in that article were for deaths brought forward. That does not necessarily imply that people died directly as a result of the effects of pollutants, but that they may have died one or two days, or possibly a few hours, before they would otherwise have died. It is important to be aware that there is a big difference between that and what you have just said.

Ni welais yr erthygl honno, ond cofiaf ddarllen erthygl debyg ar y pryd. Yr oedd yr ystadegau yn yr erthygl honno yn sôn am farwolaethau a achoswyd yn gynt. Nid yw hynny o reidrwydd yn awgrymu bod pobl wedi marw o ganlyniad i effeithiau llygrwyr yn uniongyrchol, ond eu bod wedi marw ychydig ddiwrnodau, neu ychydig oriau o bosibl yn gynt nag y byddent wedi marw fel arall. Mae’n bwysig bod yn ymwybodol bod gwahaniaeth mawr rhwng hynny a’r hyn yr ydych newydd ei ddweud.

Brian Gibbons spoken in English p. 54

Brian Gibbons siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 54

To elaborate on that, in the Netherlands, for example, over 2,000 deaths were brought forward as a result of the effects of air pollutants, which is roughly equivalent to twice the number of deaths brought forward by road traffic accidents in the Netherlands. That begs the question: by what quantum were the deaths brought forward? Clearly, different implications arise from a young person being killed in a traffic accident than from an older person, having reached the end of their life, being affected by air pollutants. Therefore, I agree that it is sometimes difficult to get one’s head around the concept of deaths being brought forward.

I ymhelaethu ar hynny, yn yr Iseldiroedd, er enghraifft, bu farw dros 2,000 o bobl yn gynt o ganlyniad i effeithiau llygrwyr aer, sy’n cyfateb yn fras â dwywaith y nifer o farwolaethau a achoswyd yn gynt oherwydd damweiniau ffyrdd yn yr Iseldiroedd. Cyfyd cwestiwn: i ba raddau yr achoswyd y marwolaethau yn gynt? Yn amlwg, cyfyd goblygiadau gwahanol o ran effaith llygrwyr aer ar berson ifanc a leddir mewn damwain ffordd a pherson hŷn, sydd wedi cyrraedd pen ei rawd. Felly, cytunaf ei bod yn anodd weithiau deall y cysyniad o farwolaethau a achoswyd yn gynt.

In addressing this problem, it was suggested in other work, which commented on the original article in The Lancet, that for every 10 microgrammes increase in PM10s, life expectancy in northern Europe could be reduced by two to six months. It was stated that that effect is apparent even when there are low levels of air pollution. As such, there is probably no threshold for adverse effects. We must continue to strive towards ensuring purer air throughout Wales. I am pleased that, last autumn, the Minister decided to implement more stringent air quality standards. She insisted that there would be no local exemptions, such as that given to the City of London. I am pleased that, in Wales, we have insisted that the stringent new standards apply across the country.

Er mwyn mynd i’r afael â’r broblem hon, awgrymwyd mewn darn arall o waith a wnaeth sylwadau ar yr erthygl wreiddiol yn The Lancet, y gallai disgwyliad oes yng ngogledd Ewrop gael ei leihau rhwng dau a chwe mis fesul pob cynnydd o 10 microgram mewn gollyngiadau PM10. Nodwyd bod yr effaith honno yn amlwg hyd yn oed lle mae lefelau isel o lygredd aer. Fel y cyfryw, mae’n debyg nad oes trothwy ar gyfer effeithiau niweidiol. Rhaid inni barhau i ymdrechu i sicrhau aer purach ledled Cymru. Yr wyf yn falch o nodi i’r Gweinidog benderfynu gweithredu safonau ansawdd aer llymach yr hydref diwethaf. Mynnodd na châi unrhyw ardal leol ei heithrio, fel y digwyddodd yn achos Dinas Llundain. Yr wyf yn falch ein bod ni yng Nghymru wedi mynnu bod y safonau newydd llym yn gymwys i bob rhan o’r wlad.

As the Minister said, the regulations propose a two-stage process. The first stage is an overall updating and screening assessment to identify general progress at a strategic level and to identify locations that are potentially at risk. What opportunities will members of the public and public interest groups have to make their views known at that stage? Geraint Davies brought forward a private member’s regulation on monitoring emissions from landfill sites. At the first stage of the process, individuals and local interest groups should be able to make representations and we should ensure that their concerns are being taken into account.

Fel y dywedodd y Gweinidog, mae’r rheoliadau yn cynnig proses dau gam. Y cam cyntaf yw asesiad diweddaru a sgrinio cyffredinol i nodi cynnydd cyffredinol ar lefel strategol ynghyd â lleoliadau sydd o bosibl yn agored i risg. Pa gyfleoedd a fydd gan aelodau o’r cyhoedd a grwpiau er budd y cyhoedd i fynegi eu safbwyntiau ar yr adeg honno? Cyflwynodd Geraint Davies reoliad aelod preifat ar fonitro gollyngiadau o safleoedd tirlenwi. Ar gam cyntaf y broses, dylai unigolion a grwpiau diddordeb lleol fod yn gallu gwneud sylwadau a dylem sicrhau y caiff eu pryderon eu hystyried.

Members of the public must be able to monitor air quality in their communities. In the Neath Port Talbot area, weekly air quality statistics are displayed on the local authority’s website. However, virtually no such information has been displayed on the Welsh Air Quality Forum’s website since it was launched. The Department for Environment, Food and Rural Affairs’ website is equally uninformative. When data has been put on that site, it is often difficult to understand. The data must be displayed in a way that people can understand, so that they can monitor air quality performance against the targets.

Rhaid bod modd i aelodau o’r cyhoedd fonitro ansawdd aer yn eu cymunedau. Yn ardal Castell-nedd Port Talbot, arddangosir ystadegau wythnosol ar ansawdd aer ar wefan yr awdurdod lleol. Fodd bynnag, prin bod gwybodaeth o’r fath wedi ymddangos ar wefan Fforwm Ansawdd Aer Cymru ers ei lansio. Nid yw gwefan Adran yr Amgylchedd, Bwyd a Materion Gwledig yn dweud llawer wrthych ychwaith. Pan fydd data wedi’i roi ar y safle hwnnw, yn aml mae’n anodd ei ddeall. Rhaid arddangos y data mewn ffordd y gall pobl ei ddeall, er mwyn iddynt allu monitro perfformiad ansawdd aer yn erbyn y targedau.

Eleanor Burnham spoken in English p. 55

Eleanor Burnham siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 55

The Welsh Liberal Democrats welcome this motion. It will help guarantee local air quality in Wales by ensuring regular assessments. As Brian Gibbons mentioned, the many benefits of clean air are well documented, and include improved health, environmental benefits and the preservation of wildlife. It can also create spin-offs in the area of eco-tourism, from which countries such as New Zealand have benefited greatly. Wales could enjoy similar benefits.

Mae Democratiaid Rhyddfrydol Cymru yn croesawu’r cynnig hwn. Bydd yn helpu i warantu ansawdd aer lleol yng Nghymru drwy sicrhau asesiadau rheolaidd. Fel y nododd Brian Gibbons, mae cryn dystiolaeth o’r manteision lu a ddaw yn sgîl aer glân, gan gynnwys gwell iechyd, buddiannau i’r amgylchedd a chadwraeth bywyd gwyllt. Gall hefyd fod yn fanteisiol ym maes twristiaeth ecolegol, y mae gwledydd megis Seland Newydd wedi elwa cryn dipyn arni. Gallai Cymru elwa yn yr un modd.

Brian Hancock spoken in English p. 56

Brian Hancock siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 56

The document that I have here is an extremely interesting and thick tome. Paragraph 6 of the explanatory memorandum states:

Mae’r ddogfen sydd gennyf yma yn un drwchus a hynod ddiddorol. Noda paragraff 6 o’r memorandwm esboniadol:

‘There are no additional financial implications for the Assembly, local authorities or others arising from this guidance.’

If there is going to be a strategy of review and updating assessments, there are bound to be costs involved, as we may find that further monitoring is required in some areas. The sensitivity of monitoring equipment is being constantly improved, and the equipment then becomes more expensive. Costs will therefore be incurred by the organisations responsible for the monitoring. I am wary about that.

Os bydd strategaeth ar gyfer asesiadau adolygu a diweddaru, bydd costau yn rhwym o godi. Efallai y gwelwn fod yn rhaid gwneud gwaith monitro pellach mewn rhai ardaloedd. Caiff sensitifrwydd offer monitro ei wella’n barhaus, ac yna mae’r offer yn mynd yn fwy costus. Bydd y sefydliadau sy’n gyfrifol am y gwaith monitro yn mynd i gostau. Mae gennyf amheuon ynglŷn â hynny.

In terms of PM10 emissions, air quality in Cardiff and Swansea city centres has deteriorated during the past three years. Those areas should be designated as air quality management areas. Monitoring the air quality and reducing emissions in those areas will involve additional costs.

O ran gollyngiadau PM10, mae ansawdd aer yng nghanol Caerdydd ac Abertawe wedi dirywio yn ystod y tair blynedd diwethaf. Dylid dynodi’r ardaloedd hynny yn ardaloedd rheoli ansawdd aer. Bydd y gwaith o fonitro ansawdd aer a lleihau gollyngiadau yn yr ardaloedd hynny yn golygu costau ychwanegol.

A certain amount of data is required in terms of monitoring part A and part B processes. One part of the data that is missing is that on weather conditions. This is an extremely technical point. Whenever you have a process that creates emissions, plume inversions or smell inversions can have adverse effects. Many of those issues have been raised in the context of Nantygwyddon.

Mae angen rhywfaint o ddata o ran monitro prosesau rhan A a rhan B. Rhan o’r data sydd yn eisiau yw’r data ar y tywydd. Mae hwn yn bwynt technegol iawn. Pryd bynnag y bydd proses yn creu gollyngiadau, gall gwrthdroadau pluen neu wrthdroadau aroglau gael effeithiau niwediol. Codwyd llawer o’r materion hynny yng nghyd-destun Nantygwyddon.

Those are a few points that I managed to glean from this information, after only receiving the document yesterday. I am concerned about the claim that there will be no additional cost to the Assembly, local authorities or other bodies such as the Environment Agency.

Dyna ychydig o bwyntiau y llwyddais eu casglu o’r wybodaeth hon, a minnau ond wedi cael y ddogfen ddoe. Pryderaf ynglŷn â’r honiad na fydd cost ychwanegol i’r Cynulliad, awdurdodau lleol na chyrff eraill megis Asiantaeth yr Amgylchedd.

Sue Essex The Minister for Environment spoken in English p. 57

Sue Essex Y Gweinidog dros yr Amgylchedd siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 57

This is a complicated issue. I do not pretend to be an expert on it, and I rely on Brian Gibbons for related medical information. This is an important issue, about which the public is concerned. We are putting the jigsaw pieces together to make a substantial improvement to air quality in Wales.

Mae hwn yn fater cymhleth. Nid wyf yn honni fy mod yn arbenigwraig, a dibynnaf ar Brian Gibbons am wybodaeth feddygol gysylltiedig. Mae hwn yn fater pwysig y mae’r cyhoedd yn pryderu yn ei gylch. Yr ydym yn rhoi pethau at ei gilydd er mwyn gwneud gwelliant sylweddol i ansawdd aer Cymru.

On Janet Davies’s first point about PM10 emissions, the air quality strategy addendum, due to be released later this week, will include tight objectives for benzene and carbon monoxide, and provisional objectives for PM10s. I will keep you informed of that. I am sorry, but I must be becoming a little deaf—I hope that it is temporary because of this bug that I have—as I did not hear the second part of your contribution, Janet. If you would like to speak to me later or write to me, I will take up the other points that you raised.

O ran pwynt cyntaf Janet Davies ynglŷn â gollyngiadau PM10, bydd yr atodiad i’r strategaeth ansawdd aer, y bwriedir ei gyhoeddi yn ddiweddarach yr wythnos hon, yn cynnwys amcanion llym ar gyfer bensin a charbon monocsid, ac amcanion dros dro ar gyfer PM10. Byddaf yn rhoi’r wybodaeth ddiweddaraf ichi ynglŷn â hynny. Mae’n ddrwg gennyf, ond rhaid fy mod yn mynd yn fyddar—gobeithiaf mai rhywbeth dros dro ydyw oherwydd y salwch hwn sydd arnaf—gan na chlywais ail ran eich cyfraniad, Janet. Os hoffech siarad â mi nes ymlaen neu ysgrifennu ataf, byddaf yn ymdrin â’r pwyntiau eraill a godwyd gennych.

Brian Gibbons mentioned an article in The Lancet, of which he is an avid reader. It is not part of my bedtime reading, so I rely on him to draw to my attention to the important issues raised in it. You are right that, as with most environmental measurements, we must continue to insist on higher standards here. As we learn about the possible implications of pollution, in particular, on health—we cannot be sure about this, but there is a precautionary element to it—you are right that we should continue to be vigilant and set higher standards. The two-stage process is fair. However, your points about whether the public understands what is going on and feel involved, and on providing information in an accessible way, are important. I will take up your point that this should be done during the updating and screening assessments. On the fact that information is not available in full on websites, or is difficult to understand, I checked this with a member of the department. The two websites to which, I believe, you refer have had particular difficulties. However, it is important that the public has confidence in the system, and therefore we need to tackle that urgently.

Cyfeiriodd Brian Gibbons at erthygl yn The Lancet, cylchgrawn y mae’n ei ddarllen yn frwd. Nid yw’n rhywbeth yr wyf yn ei ddarllen cyn mynd i gysgu, felly dibynnaf arno i dynnu fy sylw at y materion pwysig a godwyd ynddo. Yr ydych yn iawn, fel gyda’r rhan fwyaf o fesurau amgylcheddol, rhaid inni barhau i fynnu safonau uwch yn hyn o beth. Wrth inni ddysgu am oblygiadau posibl llygredd, yn arbennig, o ran iechyd—ni allwn fod yn siŵr ynglŷn â hyn, ond mae elfen ragofalus yn ei gylch—yr ydych yn llygad eich lle i nodi y dylem barhau i fod yn wyliadwrus a gosod safonau uwch. Mae’r broses dau gam yn deg. Fodd bynnag, mae eich pwyntiau ynghylch a yw’r cyhoedd yn deall beth sy’n digwydd ac yn teimlo eu bod yn cael eu cynnwys, ac o ran darparu gwybodaeth mewn ffordd hwylus, yn bwysig. Ymdriniaf â’ch pwynt y dylid gwneud hyn yn ystod yr asesiadau diweddaru a sgrinio. O ran y ffaith nad oes gwybodaeth lawn ar gael ar wefannau, neu ei bod yn anodd ei deall, trafodais hyn gydag aelod o’r adran. Cafodd y ddwy wefan y cyfeiriwch atynt, fe gredaf, anawsterau penodol. Fodd bynnag, mae’n bwysig bod y cyhoedd yn gallu ymddiried yn y system, ac felly mae angen inni fynd i’r afael â hynny ar fyrder.

Brian Hancock mentioned funding. Funding for air quality management duties has been made available through the revenue support grant, so it is included in the settlement for local authorities. You mentioned Cardiff and Swansea. Both cities have declared an air quality management area, so they are addressing the points that you raised. I have not considered the meteorological conditions in detail but, regarding the data on the website, one key matter to which you referred is provided by the Meteorological Office. Therefore, I would be surprised if that does not take account of local weather conditions. However, if it does not, we will draw that to its attention.

Soniodd Brian Hancock am arian. Darparwyd arian ar gyfer dyletswyddau rheoli ansawdd aer drwy’r grant cynnal refeniw, felly caiff ei gynnwys yn setliad awdurdodau lleol. Bu ichi gyfeirio at Gaerdydd ac Abertawe. Mae’r ddwy ddinas wedi pennu ardal rheoli ansawdd aer, felly maent yn mynd i’r afael â’r pwyntiau a godwyd gennych. Nid wyf wedi ystyried cyflwr y tywydd yn fanwl ond o ran y data sydd ar y wefan, darperir un mater allweddol y cyfeiriasoch ato gan y Swyddfa Feteorolegol. Felly, synnaf os nad yw honno yn ystyried y tywydd yn lleol. Fodd bynnag, os na wna hynny, byddwn yn tynnu hynny at ei sylw.

I thank everyone for their contributions, and I thank those who managed to read this voluminous document.

Diolchaf i bawb am eu cyfraniadau, a diolchaf i’r rhai sydd wedi llwyddo i ddarllen y ddogfen drwchus hon.

DerbyniwydAdopted O blaidFor 36 YmatalAbstain 1 Yn erbynAgainst 0

Derbyniwyd y cynnig.

Motion carried.

Sut y pleidleisiodd yr AelodauHow Members voted
O blaidFor (36)
  • Lorraine Barrett
  • Mick Bates
  • Nick Bourne
  • Eleanor Burnham
  • Rosemary Butler
  • Alun Cairns
  • Andrew Davies
  • David Davies
  • Janet Davies
  • Jocelyn Davies
  • Ron Davies
  • Sue Essex
  • Delyth Evans
  • William Graham
  • John Griffiths
  • Brian Gibbons
  • Brian Hancock
  • Edwina Hart
  • Jane Hutt
  • Carwyn Jones
  • David Ian Jones
  • Huw Lewis
  • David Lloyd
  • David Melding
  • Tom Middlehurst
  • Jonathan Morgan
  • Rhodri Morgan
  • Lynne Neagle
  • Alun Pugh
  • Jenny Randerson
  • Janet Ryder
  • Karen Sinclair
  • Gwenda Thomas
  • Rhodri Glyn Thomas
  • Dafydd Wigley
  • Kirsty Williams
YmatalAbstain (1)
  • Christine Gwyther

Daeth y Dirprwy Lywydd i’r Gadair am 4.05 p.m.

The Deputy Presiding Officer took the Chair at 4.05 p.m.

Cymeradwyo Rheoliadau Tenantiaethau Preswyl Hir (Prif Ffurflenni) (Diwygio) (Cymru) 2003

Approval of the Long Residential Tenancies (Principal Forms) (Amendment) (Wales) Regulations 2003

Edwina Hart The Finance Minister spoken in English p. 59

Edwina Hart Y Gweinidog dros Gyllid siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 59

I propose that

Cynigiaf fod

Edwina Hart The Finance Minister (continued) spoken in English p. 59

Edwina Hart Y Gweinidog dros Gyllid (parhad) siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 59

I propose that

Cynigiaf fod

Edwina Hart The Finance Minister (continued) spoken in English p. 59

Edwina Hart Y Gweinidog dros Gyllid (parhad) siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 59

The Local Government and Housing Act 1989 provides for the right to security of tenure for leaseholders where a long lease comes to an end. At the end of the long lease, the landlord serves one of two statutory notices on the leaseholder. In these notices, the landlord must either propose an assured tenancy, or seek repossession of the property on permissible grounds. The information that must be contained in these notices is set out in the prescribed regulations.

Mae Deddf Llywodraeth Leol a Thai 1989 yn darparu ar gyfer yr hawl i sicrwydd tenantiaeth i lesddalwyr pan ddaw prydles hir i ben. Ar ddiwedd prydles hir, mae’r landlord yn cyflwyno un o ddau hysbysiad statudol i’r lesddaliwr. Yn yr hysbysiadau hyn, rhaid i’r landlord naill ai gynnig tenantiaeth sicr, neu geisio atafael yr eiddo ar sail a ganiateir. Nodir y wybodaeth y mae’n rhaid ei chynnwys yn yr hysbysiadau hyn yn y rheoliadau rhagnodedig.

Previously, the right to security of tenure did not apply to leaseholders of houses who had already extended their lease under the Leasehold Reform Act 1967. However, the Commonhold and Leasehold Reform Act 2002 contains provisions that extend the rights of leaseholders of houses with extended leases coming to an end. The statutory notices now need to be amended to reflect this. The changes are being made by amending the old regulations, rather than by producing a new set of consolidated forms. I hope that you will agree that this is a welcome change for leaseholders of houses. I commend the motion.

Cyn hyn, nid oedd yr hawl i sicrwydd tenantiaeth yn gymwys i lesddalwyr tai a oedd eisoes wedi estyn eu prydles o dan Ddeddf Diwygio Lesddaliad 1967. Fodd bynnag, mae Deddf Diwygio Deiliadaeth ar y Cyd a Lesddaliad 2002 yn cynnwys darpariaethau sy’n estyn hawliau lesddalwyr tai y mae eu prydles estynedig yn dod i ben. Bellach mae angen diwygio’r hysbysiadau statudol i adlewyrchu hyn. Gwneir y newidiadau drwy ddiwygio’r hen reoliadau, yn hytrach na llunio cyfres newydd o reoliadau cyfunol. Gobeithiaf y byddwch yn cytuno bod hwn yn newid y bydd lesddalwyr tai yn ei groesawu. Cymeradwyaf y cynnig.

Janet Ryder spoken in English p. 60

Janet Ryder siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 60

It is good to welcome the security that is being given to existing tenants as they seek to prolong their tenancy. However, I will raise one point with the Minister. In many areas, local people find it hard to rent accommodation in their own communities, yet it is reported that landlords advertise accommodation in those communities many miles away. What is the Government doing to address that situation?

Mae’n dda croesawu’r sicrwydd a roddir i denantiaid cyfredol wrth iddynt geisio estyn eu tenantiaeth. Fodd bynnag, codaf un pwynt gyda’r Gweinidog. Mewn llawer o ardaloedd, mae’n anodd i bobl leol rentu llety yn eu cymunedau eu hunain, ac eto dywedir bod landlordiaid yn hysbysebu llety yn y cymunedau hynny filltiroedd i ffwrdd. Beth y mae’r Llywodraeth yn ei wneud i fynd i’r afael â’r sefyllfa honno?

Kirsty Williams spoken in English p. 60

Kirsty Williams siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 60

The changes before us today are relatively minor, but nonetheless important. The right to security of tenure should apply to leaseholders of houses who have been able to extend their leases under the Leasehold Reform Act, and these changes will extend that right to them. As such, the Liberal Democrats support the changes.

Mae’r newidiadau ger ein bron heddiw yn rhai cymharol fach ond pwysig serch hynny. Dylai’r hawl i sicrwydd tenantiaeth fod yn gymwys i lesddalwyr tai sydd wedi gallu estyn eu prydlesau o dan Ddeddf Diwygio Lesddaliad, a bydd y newidiadau hyn yn estyn yr hawl honno iddynt. Fel y cyfryw, mae’r Democratiaid Rhyddfrydol yn cefnogi’r newidiadau.

William Graham spoken in English p. 60

William Graham siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 60

In welcoming this Order, I am nonetheless surprised that time has been given to discuss it today. The principle of this was considered when discussing the Act and was welcomed by all parties in the Chamber. Why is this being given special treatment? It does not quite have the notoriety of the Crab Claws (Prohibition of Landing) (Revocation) (Wales) Order 2001, or the Undersized Whiting (Revocation) (Wales) Order 2001. I believe that we are yet to debate the Undersized Lobster (Wales) Order 2003. Perhaps you will consider this matter further.

Er imi groesawu’r Gorchymyn hwn, synnaf fod amser wedi’i neilltuo i’w drafod heddiw. Ystyriwyd egwyddor y Gorchymyn hwn pan drafodwyd y Ddeddf ac yr oedd pawb yn y Siambr yn ei groesawu. Pam y caiff y Gorchymyn hwn driniaeth arbennig? Nid yw yr un mor ddadleuol â Gorchymyn Cyfrangau Crancod (Gwahardd eu Glanio) (Diddymu) (Cymru) 2001, na Gorchymyn Gwyniaid Rhy Fach (Diddymu) (Cymru) 2001. Credaf nad ydym wedi trafod Gorchymyn Cimychiaid Rhy Fach (Cymru) 2003 eto. Efallai y byddwch yn ystyried y mater hwn ymhellach.

Edwina Hart spoken in English p. 61

Edwina Hart siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 61

It is always my intention to debate Orders relating to my portfolio in the Chamber. I try not to use the executive procedure. However, I will discuss this in future with the Deputy Presiding Officer, taking William’s points on board. I thank Kirsty for her kind comments. I will not exercise the right to reply to Janet Ryder’s comment, because it was not relevant to what we are discussing today.

Mae’n fwriad gennyf bob amser i drafod Gorchmynion sy’n ymwneud â’m portffolio yn y Siambr. Ceisiaf beidio â defnyddio’r weithdrefn weithredol. Fodd bynnag, byddaf yn trafod hyn yn y dyfodol gyda’r Dirprwy Lywydd, gan roi sylw i bwyntiau William. Diolchaf i Kirsty am ei sylwadau caredig. Nid arferaf fy hawl i ymateb i sylw Janet Ryder, am nad oedd yn berthnasol i’r hyn a drafodwn heddiw.

Cynnig NDM1334 Edwina Hart t. 61

Motion NDM1334 Edwina Hart p. 61

DerbyniwydAdopted O blaidFor 37 YmatalAbstain 0 Yn erbynAgainst 0

Derbyniwyd y cynnig.

Motion carried.

Sut y pleidleisiodd yr AelodauHow Members voted
O blaidFor (37)
  • Lorraine Barrett
  • Mick Bates
  • Nick Bourne
  • Eleanor Burnham
  • Rosemary Butler
  • Alun Cairns
  • Christine Chapman
  • Andrew Davies
  • David Davies
  • Jocelyn Davies
  • Ron Davies
  • Sue Essex
  • Delyth Evans
  • William Graham
  • Janice Gregory
  • John Griffiths
  • Brian Gibbons
  • Christine Gwyther
  • Edwina Hart
  • Jane Hutt
  • Carwyn Jones
  • David Ian Jones
  • Huw Lewis
  • David Lloyd
  • David Melding
  • Tom Middlehurst
  • Jonathan Morgan
  • Rhodri Morgan
  • Lynne Neagle
  • Alun Pugh
  • Jenny Randerson
  • Janet Ryder
  • Karen Sinclair
  • Gwenda Thomas
  • Rhodri Glyn Thomas
  • Dafydd Wigley
  • Kirsty Williams

Cynnig NDM1335 Edwina Hart t. 61

Motion NDM1335 Edwina Hart p. 61

DerbyniwydAdopted O blaidFor 38 YmatalAbstain 0 Yn erbynAgainst 0

Derbyniwyd y cynnig.

Motion carried.

Sut y pleidleisiodd yr AelodauHow Members voted
O blaidFor (38)
  • Lorraine Barrett
  • Mick Bates
  • Nick Bourne
  • Eleanor Burnham
  • Rosemary Butler
  • Alun Cairns
  • Christine Chapman
  • Andrew Davies
  • David Davies
  • Jocelyn Davies
  • Ron Davies
  • Sue Essex
  • Delyth Evans
  • William Graham
  • Janice Gregory
  • John Griffiths
  • Brian Gibbons
  • Christine Gwyther
  • Edwina Hart
  • Jane Hutt
  • Carwyn Jones
  • David Ian Jones
  • Peter Law
  • Huw Lewis
  • David Lloyd
  • David Melding
  • Tom Middlehurst
  • Jonathan Morgan
  • Rhodri Morgan
  • Lynne Neagle
  • Alun Pugh
  • Jenny Randerson
  • Janet Ryder
  • Karen Sinclair
  • Gwenda Thomas
  • Rhodri Glyn Thomas
  • Dafydd Wigley
  • Kirsty Williams

Adolygiad Pum Mlynedd Bwrdd Croeso Cymru

The Quinquennial Review of the Wales Tourist Board.

John Marek The Deputy Presiding Officer spoken in English p. 62

John Marek Y Dirprwy Lywydd siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 62

I have selected amendments 1 and 2 in the name of Jonathan Morgan.

Yr wyf wedi dethol gwelliannau 1 a 2 yn enw Jonathan Morgan.

Andrew Davies The Minister for Economic Development spoken in English p. 62

Andrew Davies Y Gweinidog dros Ddatblygu Economaidd siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 62

I propose that

Cynigiaf fod

Andrew Davies The Minister for Economic Development (continued) spoken in English p. 63

Andrew Davies Y Gweinidog dros Ddatblygu Economaidd (parhad) siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 63

I am pleased to present this quinquennial review of the Wales Tourist Board and the Cabinet’s response to the review to the National Assembly this afternoon. It might be helpful if I briefly remind Members of the general background to quinquennial reviews. The Assembly Government set a commitment in ‘Plan for Wales 2001’ to undertake reviews of all public bodies by 2003-04. This review is part of an ongoing programme of Welsh Assembly Government reviews of its sponsored public bodies. Key issues covered in the reviews include ensuring that the bodies are properly accountable to the Assembly, that they reflect the Assembly Government’s priorities and values in their business, and that they make good, effective use of public funds.

Mae’n bleser gennyf gyflwyno adolygiad pum mlynedd Bwrdd Croeso Cymru ac ymateb y Cabinet i’r adolygiad i’r Cynulliad Cenedlaethol y prynhawn yma. Efallai y byddai’n ddefnyddiol pe bawn yn atgoffa’r Aelodau yn fras o gefndir cyffredinol adolygiadau pum mlynedd. Ymrwymodd Llywodraeth y Cynulliad yn ‘Cynllun i Gymru 2001’ i adolygu pob corff cyhoeddus erbyn 2003-04. Mae’r adolygiad hwn yn rhan o raglen barhaus o adolygiadau Llywodraeth Cynulliad Cymru o’r cyrff a noddir ganddi. Ymhlith y materion allweddol a gwmpesir yn yr adolygiadau mae sicrhau bod y cyrff yn gwbl atebol i’r Cynulliad, eu bod yn ystyried blaenoriaethau a gwerthoedd Llywodraeth y Cynulliad wrth gynnal eu busnes, a’u bod yn gwneud defnydd da, effeithiol o arian cyhoeddus.

This review of the Wales Tourist Board was undertaken in accordance with the Assembly Government’s published guidelines for conducting such reviews; accordingly, it was carried out in two stages. Stage 1 examined the rationale for the existence of the WTB, and stage 2 considered whether it needed to improve its accountability, strategic effectiveness and service quality.

Cynhaliwyd yr adolygiad hwn o Fwrdd Croeso Cymru yn unol â chanllawiau cyhoeddedig Llywodraeth y Cynulliad ar gynnal adolygiadau o’r fath; yn unol â hynny, fe’i cynhaliwyd ar ddau gam. Ar gam 1, ystyriwyd y sail resymegol ar gyfer bodolaeth Bwrdd Croeso Cymru, ac ar gam 2 ystyriwyd a oedd angen iddo fod yn fwy atebol ac yn fwy effeithiol yn strategol ac a oedd angen iddo wella ansawdd ei wasanaeth.

The completed review involved a wide range of consultation with, and contributions from, interested parties, including local authorities, the private sector, local enterprise agencies, the voluntary sector, and users of the service provided by the Wales Tourist Board. These are all set out in the final report. The first stage of the review was carried out by Jonathan Price and the second by Nick Patel, who are both officials within the Assembly finance group. I am grateful for their work in producing this comprehensive report. I also thank the chairman of the Wales Tourist Board, board members and WTB staff who contributed to the report. I am delighted that Jonathan Jones, its chief executive, is here listening to the debate today. I pay tribute to the work carried out by Jonathan and his officials over the last few years.

Yr oedd yr adolygiad terfynol yn cynnwys ymgynghori’n eang â’r sawl â buddiant, gan gynnwys awdurdodau lleol, y sector preifat, asiantaethau menter lleol, y sector gwirfoddol, a defnyddwyr y gwasanaeth a ddarperir gan Fwrdd Croeso Cymru, ynghyd â chyfraniadau ganddynt. Nodir pob un o’r rhain yn yr adroddiad terfynol. Cynhaliwyd cam cyntaf yr adolygiad gan Jonathan Price a’r ail gam gan Nick Patel, y mae’r ddau yn swyddogion yng ngrŵp cyllid y Cynulliad. Yr wyf yn ddiolchgar am eu gwaith wrth lunio’r adroddiad cynhwysfawr hwn. Diolchaf hefyd i gadeirydd Bwrdd Croeso Cymru, aelodau’r bwrdd a’r staff a gyfrannodd at yr adroddiad. Yr wyf yn falch o nodi bod Jonathan Jones, ei brif weithredwr, yma yn gwrando ar y ddadl heddiw. Talaf deyrnged i’r gwaith a wnaed gan Jonathan a’i swyddogion dros yr ychydig flynyddoedd diwethaf.

One of the primary purposes of the first stage of the review was to identify the best methods of delivering key tourism functions determined by the review to be necessary. The review considered several options for delivering these key functions. In doing so, it acknowledged the achievements and the work of the Wales Tourist Board and went on to recommend that it continue to exist, constituted broadly as at present. The first stage report makes some 28 recommendations in all. The second stage of the review focuses more on the strategic effectiveness of the tourist board, its corporate governance, and how its functions are delivered. The second stage report makes 24 recommendations.

Un o brif ddibenion cam cyntaf yr adolygiad oedd nodi’r dulliau gorau o gyflawni swyddogaethau twristiaeth allweddol y penderfynwyd yn yr adolygiad eu bod yn angenrheidiol. Ystyriodd yr adolygiad sawl opsiwn ar gyfer cyflawni’r swyddogaethau allweddol hyn. Wrth wneud hynny, cydnabu gyflawniadau a gwaith Bwrdd Croeso Cymru ac aeth ymlaen i argymell y dylai barhau i fodoli, fel y’i sefydlir ar hyn o bryd yn gyffredinol. Mae cam cyntaf yr adroddiad yn gwneud tua 28 o argymhellion i gyd. Canolbwyntia ail gam yr adroddiad yn fwy ar effeithiolrwydd strategol y bwrdd croeso, ei reolaeth gorfforaethol, a sut y cyflawnir ei swyddogaethau. Mae’r adroddiad ar yr ail gam yn gwneud 24 o argymhellion.

You will be pleased to hear that I do not intend to discuss all 52 recommendations this afternoon, as many are detailed and refer to specific aspects of the WTB’s work. However, I will identify a few key recommendations. These include: strengthening the strategic relationship between the Assembly Government and the tourist board; establishing a process to identify strategic investment projects across the tourist board’s programme areas to improve co-ordination of investment with other public bodies, particularly the Welsh Development Agency; a review of top management structure to strengthen the challenge role, and spreading the culture of financial management and expertise more widely across the organisation; that the tourist board commit itself to achieving the Investor in People standard; that it considers the structure and membership of the board; and that the tourist board’s section 4 grant scheme remain as a free-standing central grant scheme, subject to some changes. I shall address the strategic issues that I have just mentioned in my next remit letter to the tourist board for 2003-04. I provided a draft of the remit letter to Economic Development Committee members prior to the Committee meeting on 30 January for their comments.

Byddwch yn falch o glywed na fwriadaf drafod pob un o’r 52 o argymhellion y prynhawn yma, gan fod llawer ohonynt yn fanwl ac yn cyfeirio at agweddau penodol ar waith y bwrdd croeso. Fodd bynnag, nodaf sawl argymhelliad allweddol. Mae’r rhain yn cynnwys: atgyfnerthu’r berthynas strategol rhwng Llywodraeth y Cynulliad a’r bwrdd croeso; sefydlu proses ar gyfer nodi prosiectau buddsoddi strategol ar draws meysydd rhaglen y bwrdd croeso i wella’r ffordd y caiff buddsoddiad ei gydlynu â chyrff cyhoeddus eraill, yn enwedig Awdurdod Datblygu Cymru; adolygiad o’r strwythur uwch-reoli i atgyfnerthu’r rôl herio, a lledaenu’r diwylliant o reoli ariannol ac arbenigedd yn ehangach ar draws y sefydliad; bod y bwrdd croeso yn ymrwymo i gyflawni safon Buddsoddwyr mewn Pobl; ei fod yn ystyried strwythur ac aelodaeth y bwrdd; bod cynllun grant adran 4 y bwrdd croeso yn parhau i fod yn grant cynllun canolog annibynnol, yn amodol ar rai newidiadau. Ymdriniaf â’r materion strategol yr wyf newydd eu crybwyll yn fy llythyr cylch gwaith nesaf i’r bwrdd croeso ar gyfer 2003-04. Darperais ddrafft o’r llythyr cylch gwaith i aelodau’r Pwyllgor Datblygu Economaidd cyn i’r Pwyllgor gyfarfod ar 30 Ionawr er mwyn cael eu sylwadau.

The Assembly Government Cabinet supports the overall findings of the review and proposes that all the recommendations contained in both stages of the review be taken forward. The Economic Development Committee has considered and commented on drafts of both stages of the report. An implementation plan is being prepared to work through all 52 recommendations, and the Economic Development Committee will be given the opportunity, within due process, to comment on the draft plan. This implementation plan will then be taken forward by Assembly Government officials, working closely with the tourist board and other parties as necessary.

Mae Cabinet Llywodraeth y Cynulliad yn cefnogi canfyddiadau cyffredinol yr adolygiad ac yn cynnig y dylid gweithredu ar bob un o’r argymhellion a geir yn nau gam yr adolygiad. Mae’r Pwyllgor Datblygu Economaidd wedi ystyried ac wedi gwneud sylwadau ar ddau gam yr adroddiad. Paratoir cynllun gweithredu ar hyn o bryd i roi pob un o’r 52 o argymhellion ar waith, a bydd y Pwyllgor Datblygu Economaidd yn cael cyfle i wneud sylwadau ar y cynllun drafft, yn ôl y drefn briodol. Yna, caiff y cynllun gweithredu hwn ei roi ar waith gan swyddogion Llywodraeth y Cynulliad, gan weithio’n agos gyda’r bwrdd croeso a phobl eraill yn ôl yr angen.

Dafydd Wigley spoken in English p. 65

Dafydd Wigley siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 65

In its comments, the tourist board has indicated that it does not agree with several of the points made. Have you reached a satisfactory conclusion on this, or do those areas still need to be resolved?

Yn ei sylwadau, nododd y bwrdd croeso nad yw’n cytuno â sawl pwynt a wnaed. A ydych wedi datrys hyn yn foddhaol, neu a oes angen datrys y meysydd hynny o hyd?

Andrew Davies spoken in English p. 65

Andrew Davies siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 65

My understanding is that any differences have been resolved and that there is now agreement on the recommendations.

Deallaf fod unrhyw wahaniaeth barn wedi’i ddatrys a bod cytundeb yn awr ar yr argymhellion.

I will receive progress reports on the implementation plan and, once completed, it will be published. I commend the motion to you, and look forward to hearing Members’ comments this afternoon.

Byddaf yn cael adroddiadau cynnydd ar y cynllun gweithredu, ac ar ôl iddo gael ei gwblhau, caiff ei gyhoeddi. Cymeradwyaf y cynnig ichi ac edrychaf ymlaen at glywed sylwadau’r Gweinidogion y prynhawn yma.

Alun Cairns spoken in English p. 65

Alun Cairns siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 65

I propose the following amendments in the name of Jonathan Morgan. Amendment 1: add as a new point at the end of the motion:

Cynigiaf y gwelliannau canlynol yn enw Jonathan Morgan. Gwelliant 1: ychwanegu pwynt newydd ar ddiwedd y cynnig:

Alun Cairns (continued) spoken in English p. 65

Alun Cairns (parhad) siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 65

I propose amendment 2. Add as a new point at the end of the motion:

Cynigiaf welliant 2. Ychwanegu pwynt newydd ar ddiwedd y cynnig:

Alun Cairns (continued) spoken in English p. 65

Alun Cairns (parhad) siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 65

There is no doubt that the Wales Tourist Board and its staff make an enormous contribution to the tourism industry in Wales, which makes up 7 per cent of our economy. The purpose of our amendment 1 is to recognise that fact and to underline the Assembly’s respect for the Wales Tourist Board.

Yn ddiau, mae Bwrdd Croeso Cymru a’i staff yn gwneud cyfraniad enfawr i’r diwydiant twristiaeth yng Nghymru, sy’n cyfrif am 7 y cant o’n heconomi. Diben ein gwelliant 1 yw cydnabod y ffaith honno a phwysleisio parch y Cynulliad tuag at Fwrdd Croeso Cymru.

The quinquennial review offers an opportunity to further enhance the operations of the tourist board, although I feel that the Economic Development Committee’s letter does not quite reflect the spirit of the findings. Having failed to comment on this in the Committee, due to the debate on statutory registration, on which I had differences with the Wales Tourist Board, it is important that I state my feelings in the Chamber.

Rhydd yr adolygiad pum mlynedd gyfle i wella gweithrediadau’r bwrdd croeso ymhellach, er y teimlaf nad yw llythyr y Pwyllgor Datblygu Economaidd yn adlewyrchu ysbryd y canfyddiadau yn hollol. Ar ôl methu â sôn am hyn yn y Pwyllgor, oherwydd y ddadl ar gofrestru statudol, yr oeddwn yn anghytuno â Bwrdd Croeso Cymru yn ei gylch, mae’n bwysig fy mod yn nodi fy nheimladau yn y Siambr.

The Wales Tourist Board, as a quango, requires an element of autonomy in achieving the goals set by the Assembly and the Assembly Government. However, I am concerned that a theme seems to be evolving in the recommendations of calling on the Welsh Assembly Government to take action relating to what I see as internal operations in the board. Naturally, this is understandable and usual following such a review, but it is important that the Assembly Government does not interpret this as a mandate to interfere in what are internal matters for the board. If that turns out to be the case, the advantages of having the Wales Tourist Board as an arm’s-length organisation would be negated. The Assembly Government should task the Wales Tourist Board with finding solutions to address the recommendations.

Mae angen i Fwrdd Croeso Cymru, fel cwango, gael rhywfaint o annibyniaeth i gyflawni’r nodau a bennwyd gan y Cynulliad a Llywodraeth y Cynulliad. Fodd bynnag, pryderaf fod thema fel pe’n datblygu yn yr argymhellion sy’n galw ar Lywodraeth Cynulliad Cymru i weithredu mewn perthynas â gweithrediadau sydd, yn fy marn i, yn faterion mewnol y bwrdd. Yn naturiol, gellir deall hyn ac mae’n beth arferol yn dilyn adolygiad o’r fath, ond mae’n bwysig nad yw Llywodraeth y Cynulliad yn dehongli hyn fel mandad i ymyrryd â materion mewnol y bwrdd. Os digwydd hynny, byddai manteision Bwrdd Croeso Cymru fel sefydliad hyd braich wedi’u dileu. Dylai Llywodraeth y Cynulliad roi’r gwaith o ddod o hyd i atebion i fynd i’r afael â’r argymhellion i Fwrdd Croeso Cymru.

Some of the review’s recommendations have evolved from the UK Government’s restructuring of the British Tourist Authority. On this issue, the Assembly Government’s lack of intervention at a UK level will hamper the development of the tourist industry in Wales. How can we expect a body to promote Wales abroad, when its main responsibility is to sell England in the United Kingdom? If ever there was a conflict of interests, this is it. Had the Assembly Government had the will and influence, it could have said ‘no’ and blocked the changes in responsibilities. David Ian Jones’s Andrex puppy analogy springs to mind again.

Datblygodd rai o argymhellion yr adolygiad o’r broses o ailstrwythuro’r Awdurdod Twristiaeth Prydeinig gan Lywodraeth y DU. O ran y mater hwn, bydd diffyg ymyrraeth gan Lywodraeth y Cynulliad ar lefel y DU yn atal y diwydiant twristiaeth yng Nghymru rhag datblygu. Sut y gallwn ddisgwyl i gorff hyrwyddo Cymru dramor, os mai ei brif gyfrifoldeb yw marchnata Lloegr o fewn y Deyrnas Unedig? Os bu gwrthdaro buddiannau erioed, dyma hi. Pe bai gan Lywodraeth y Cynulliad yr ewyllys a’r dylanwad, gallai fod wedi dweud ‘na’ ac atal y newidiadau i gyfrifoldebau. Fe’m hatgoffir eto o gyffelybiaeth David Ian Jones o gi bach Andrex.

Even before the changes, we saw the UK marketed with images of red double-decker buses, bowler hats and London Bridge. Occasionally, some tartan or perhaps a golf course would be used to promote Scotland, but Wales has always had a raw deal in terms of the promotion of the UK on the international stage. This situation will decline further following the reconstruction of the British Tourist Authority. The only remaining option, as the changes have now been implemented, is to insist on strict targets for the British Tourist Authority relating to the overseas spend and Wales. That will go some way towards mitigating the overall negative effect of restructuring the British Tourist Authority.

Hyd yn oed cyn y newidiadau, gwelsom y DU yn cael ei marchnata drwy ddelweddau o fysiau deulawr coch, hetiau bowler a Phont Llundain. Weithiau, byddai tartan neu gwrs golff yn cael eu defnyddio i hyrwyddo’r Alban, ond mae Cymru erioed wedi cael cam o ran hyrwyddo’r DU ar y llwyfan ryngwladol. Bydd y sefyllfa hon yn gwaethygu eto yn dilyn ailstrwythuro’r Awdurdod Twristiaeth Prydeinig. Yr unig opsiwn sy’n weddill, gan fod y newidiadau bellach wedi’u rhoi ar waith, yw mynnu targedau llym ar gyfer yr Awdurdod Twristiaeth Prydeinig mewn perthynas â gwariant dramor a Chymru. Byddai hynny’n rhywfaint o gymorth i leddfu effaith negyddol gyffredinol ailstrwythuro’r Awdurdod Twristiaeth Prydeinig.

The Assembly Government, to its credit, has increased the Wales Tourist Board’s budget, but that investment will not be realised unless the image of Wales as a distinctive, diverse nation within the United Kingdom is nurtured overseas.

Er clod i Lywodraeth y Cynulliad, mae wedi cynyddu cyllideb Bwrdd Croeso Cymru, ond ni chaiff y buddsoddiad hwnnw ei wireddu oni chaiff delwedd Cymru fel cenedl nodweddiadol a gwahanol o fewn y Deyrnas Unedig ei meithrin dramor.

The second substantive issue to which I will refer, and which is mentioned in detail in the report, is the section 4 grants. Such grants have been brought into question, and the review calls for specific reforms. Section 4 grants have been a major lever in aiding the Wales Tourist Board to improve the quality of the Welsh product. Their sheer flexibility allows consideration of the broadest, most innovative schemes. Many Assembly Members visited many examples of such schemes during the summer recess, and I had the privilege of visiting some schemes in the Swansea area. It is unlikely that those schemes would have gone ahead without the support of section 4 grants. To lose that flexibility would be nothing short of a scandal.

Yr ail fater sylweddol y cyfeiriaf ato, ac sydd wedi’i drafod yn fanwl yn yr adroddiad, yw grantiau adran 4. Bwriwyd amheuaeth ar grantiau o’r fath, ac mae’r adolygiad yn galw am ddiwygiadau penodol. Bu grantiau adran 4 yn ffordd bwysig o helpu Bwrdd Croeso Cymru i wella ansawdd y cynnyrch Cymreig. Oherwydd eu bod mor hyblyg, gellir ystyried y cynlluniau ehangaf, mwyaf arloesol. Ymwelodd llawer o Aelodau’r Cynulliad â sawl enghraifft o’r fath gynlluniau yn ystod toriad yr haf, a chefais y fraint o ymweld â nifer o gynlluniau yn ardal Abertawe. Mae’n annhebygol y byddai’r cynlluniau hynny wedi mynd rhagddynt heb gymorth grantiau adran 4. Byddai’n warth pe baem yn colli’r hyblygrwydd hwnnw.

Should a package of proposals to develop a similar scheme to support other industries be presented to the European Commission, possibly with the support of the Welsh Development Agency, it is highly likely that it would be rejected. Scotland recently lost the opportunity to offer its version of the section 4 grants in a similar situation, and we must not risk that in any changes made to further develop and enhance the scheme. There must be value for money for the taxpayer, and these recommendations will help to safeguard the scheme. I urge you to support the amendments.

Pe bai pecyn o gynigion i ddatblygu cynllun tebyg i roi cymorth i ddiwydiannau eraill yn cael ei gyflwyno i’r Comisiwn Ewropeaidd, gyda chymorth Awdurdod Datblygu Cymru o bosibl, mae’n debygol iawn y câi ei wrthod. Collodd yr Alban y cyfle yn ddiweddar i gynnig ei ffurf ei hun ar grantiau adran 4 mewn sefyllfa debyg, a rhaid inni beidio â pheryglu hynny mewn unrhyw newidiadau a wneir i ddatblygu a gwella’r cynllun ymhellach. Rhaid bod gwerth am arian i’r trethdalwr, a bydd yr argymhellion hyn yn helpu i ddiogelu’r cynllun. Apeliaf arnoch i gefnogi’r gwelliannau.

Dafydd Wigley siaradwyd yn Gymraeg ac yn Saesneg t. 68

Dafydd Wigley spoken in Welsh and English p. 68

Cyfeiriaf, yn gyntaf, at y gwelliannau. Nid yw gwelliant 1 yn ychwanegu fawr ddim—mae’n debyg bod pawb yn falch bod y bwrdd croeso yn gwneud ei waith. Mae gwelliant 2 yn haeddu cefnogaeth, fel y dywedodd Alun, i danlinellu rôl adran 4 wrth ddatblygu twristiaeth.

in Welsh I will refer, first of all, to the amendments. Amendment 1 does not add much—everyone, presumably, is glad that the tourist board does its work. Amendment 2 deserves support, as Alun said, to underline the role of section 4 in developing tourism.

Croesawaf y cyfle hwn i adolygu gwaith y bwrdd croeso. Twristiaeth yw un o brif ddiwydiannau Cymru. Mae’n cyflogi tua 100,000 o bobl yn uniongyrchol neu’n anuniongyrchol ac mae rhannau o Gymru lle mae’n arbennig o bwysig: yng Nghonwy cyflogir 15 y cant mewn twristiaeth; yng Ngwynedd cyflogir 12 y cant; yn Sir Benfro cyflogir 11 y cant; a chyflogir 10 y cant yng Ngheredigion. Gwelsom ei bwysigrwydd i’r economi ddwy flynedd yn ôl pan drawyd y diwydiant yn galed gan glwy’r traed a’r genau, a’r effaith a gafodd hyn ar yr ardaloedd gwledig. Bu twristiaeth hefyd yn elfen bwysig atodol i amaethyddiaeth, yn darparu incwm ychwanegol yn ystod cyfnodau anodd. Felly, mae gwaith y bwrdd yn allweddol i economi Cymru, ac yn arbennig i economi cefn gwlad. Ystyriaf yr arolwg hwn yng ngoleuni hynny.

in Welsh I welcome this opportunity to review the work of the tourist board. Tourism is one of the main industries in Wales. It employs around 100,000 people directly or indirectly and in parts of Wales it is especially important: in Conwy, 15 per cent are employed in tourism; in Gwynedd it employs 12 per cent; in Pembrokeshire 11 per cent; and in Ceredigion 10 per cent. We saw its importance to the economy two years ago when foot and mouth disease hit the industry hard and the effect that this had on rural areas. Tourism has also been an important supplementary element for agriculture, providing additional income during difficult periods. Therefore, the board’s work is key to Wales’s economy, and particularly the rural ecomomy. I will consider this review in that light.

Cwyd nifer o bwyntiau pwysig o’r adolygiad ac mae 24 argymhelliad penodol yn yr adroddiad hwn. Disgwyliwn y byddai’r bwrdd wedi ymateb yn gadarnhaol i’r rhain neu, o leiaf wedi gosod dadleuon sylweddol ger ein bron os oedd yn eu gwrthwynebu. Yn anffodus, o’r ymateb a welwyd hyd yn hyn, yr wyf yn amau nad yw’r bwrdd yn croesawu mwyafrif yr argymhellion. Mae rhaniad ym marn y bwrdd.

in Welsh Several important points arise from the review and there are 24 specific recommendations in the report. I expected the board to respond positively to these or, at least, to present a substantial rationale if it opposed them. Unfortunately, from the response seen so far, I suspect that the board does not welcome the majority of the recommendations. There is a difference of opinion within the board.

Of the 24 recommendations made in the quinquennial review, the WTB welcomes two, supports another two, accepts four, says that two are not for it to comment on, ignores one totally, and the other 13 are merely noted. We know what that means—there may be partial or fundamental disagreement. I will consider some of these because they are important. Andrew referred to these recommendations and indicated that there was agreement on them, which I note with much interest.

yn Saesneg O’r 24 argymhelliad a wnaed yn yr adolygiad pum mlynedd, mae’r bwrdd croeso yn croesawu dau, yn cefnogi dau arall, yn derbyn pedwar, yn dweud nad lle y bwrdd croeso yw gwneud sylwadau ar ddau, yn anwybyddu un yn gyfan gwbl, ac ond yn nodi’r 13 arall. Gwyddom beth yw ystyr hynny—mae anghytundeb naill ai’n rhannol neu’n sylfaenol. Ystyriaf rai o’r rhain gan eu bod yn bwysig. Cyfeiriodd Andrew at yr argymhellion hyn a dywedodd fod cytundeb yn eu cylch. Nodaf hynny gyda chryn ddiddordeb.

Recommendation 4 says that the WTB,

yn Saesneg Dywed argymhelliad 4 y dylai Bwrdd Croeso Cymru,

‘should consider structuring the Strategic Corporate Planning process to identify targets for the medium term…[and] to identify strategic investment projects’.

yn Saesneg ‘ystyried strwythuro’r broses Gynllunio Gorfforaethol Strategol i nodi targedau ar gyfer y tymor canolig…[ac] i nodi’r prosiectau buddsoddi strategol’.

The WTB response tries to deflect this recommendation by saying that it is a proposal for the industry as a whole, not just for the WTB. It stresses that its primary role is to market Wales. This raises the question of whether there has been a resolution between the Minister and the board with regard to accepting that recommendation.

yn Saesneg Mae ymateb y bwrdd croeso yn ceisio troi’r argymhelliad hwn o’r neilltu drwy ddweud mai cynnig i’r diwydiant cyfan ydyw, nid i Fwrdd Croeso Cymru yn unig Mae’n pwysleisio mai marchnata Cymru yw ei brif rôl. Cyfyd hynny’r cwestiwn o a benderfynodd y Gweinidog a’r bwrdd i dderbyn yr argymhelliad hwnnw.

Recommendation 6 says that the WTB should,

yn Saesneg Dywed argymhelliad 6 y dylai Bwrdd Croeso Cymru,

‘have one board member with local government expertise’.

yn Saesneg ‘un aelod o’r bwrdd sydd ag arbenigedd mewn llywodraeth leol’.

While the WTB has indicated support for this, it states that such a member would have to apply via an open recruitment process. Does the Minister accept that such a process is necessary and, if so, how will he ensure that it is undertaken?

yn Saesneg Er bod y bwrdd croeso wedi nodi cefnogaeth i hyn, dywed y byddai’n rhaid i aelod o’r fath wneud cais drwy broses recriwtio agored. A dderbynia’r Gweinidog fod angen proses o’r fath, ac os felly, sut y bydd yn sicrhau y bydd hynny yn digwydd?

Recommendation 7 is important. It calls on the WTB to set up,

yn Saesneg Mae argymhelliad 7 yn bwysig. Mae’n galw ar Fwrdd Croeso Cymru i sefydlu,

‘a forum for local authorities, public bodies…and voluntary bodies which have tourism as a main economic driver’.

yn Saesneg ‘fforwm i awdurdodau lleol, cyrff cyhoeddus…a chyrff…gwirfoddol sydd â thwristiaeth fel prif ffactor economaidd’.

The WTB says that it already consults widely and that the cost will have ‘a major bearing’ on its ability to respond positively. Has that been sorted out? I would be grateful for the Minister’s response.

yn Saesneg Dywed y bwrdd croeso ei fod eisoes yn ymgynghori’n eang ac y caiff y gost effaith sylweddol ar ei allu i ymateb yn gadarnhaol. A yw hynny wedi’i ddatrys? Byddwn yn ddiolchgar i gael ymateb y Gweinidog.

Cynog Dafis siaradwyd yn Gymraeg t. 69

Cynog Dafis spoken in Welsh p. 69

Cyfeiriodd Dafydd at yr angen am gydweithrediad rhwng y bwrdd croeso a sefydliadau eraill. A ydyw yn cytuno bod angen cydweithrediad rhwng y bwrdd croeso a Chyngor Celfyddydau Cymru, yn enwedig o ran datblygu twristiaeth ddiwylliannol a ddylai fod yn sector twf pwysig?

Dafydd referred to the need for collaboration between the tourist board and other organisations. Does he agree that collaboration is needed between the WTB and the Arts Council of Wales, especially in terms of developing cultural tourism, which should be an important growth sector?

Dafydd Wigley siaradwyd yn Gymraeg ac yn Saesneg t. 70

Dafydd Wigley spoken in Welsh and English p. 70

Ydwyf, yn sicr. Cyfeiriwyd at hyn yng nghyfarfod y Pwyllgor Diwylliant y bore yma. Mae’n rhan o argymhelliad 7, y cyfeiriais ato, a dyna pam mae’r argymhelliad yn un pwysig. Mae angen creu fforwm a sicrhau bod cyllid digonol i’w wneud yn weithredol.

in Welsh Yes, certainly. This was mentioned during the Culture Committee meeting this morning. It is part of recommendation 7, to which I have referred, and that is why that recommendation is important. We need to create a forum and ensure sufficient funding in order to make it operational.

Recommendation 11 calls for better cross-departmental working and for the breakdown of silos within the WTB. The board disagrees. Does the Minister also disagree? Recommendations 12 and 13 refer to ways of improving efficiency and management systems. The WTB warns that the funds available may limit such action. Has that issue been resolved?

yn Saesneg Mae argymhelliad 11 yn galw am well cydweithio rhyngadrannol ac am ddileu seilos o fewn y bwrdd croeso. Mae’r bwrdd yn anghytuno. A yw’r Gweinidog hefyd yn anghytuno? Cyfeiria argymhellion 12 a 13 at ffyrdd o wella effeithlonrwydd a systemau rheoli. Rhybuddia’r bwrdd croeso y gall yr arian sydd ar gael gyfyngu ar weithredu o’r fath. A ddatryswyd y mater hwnnw?

Recommendation 19 notes that the WTB needs to commit

yn Saesneg Noda argymhelliad 19 fod angen i Fwrdd Croeso Cymru ymrwymo

‘to achieve the Investors in People standard’.

yn Saesneg ‘i gyflawni safon Buddsoddwyr mewn Pobl’.

The Minister referred specifically to that and I agree with him wholeheartedly that that is an important development. However, the WTB’s response is cagey. Surely, that should be implemented without any delay. If there is a problem with resources, it should be addressed.

yn Saesneg Cyfeiriodd y Gweinidog yn benodol at hynny a chytunaf ag ef i’r carn fod hwnnw yn ddatblygiad pwysig. Fodd bynnag, mae ymateb y bwrdd croeso yn ochelgar. Rhaid i hyn gael ei weithredu yn ddi-oed. Os oes problem o ran adnoddau, dylid ei datrys.

Recommendations 21 and 22 note the need to improve the WTB’s complaints evaluation handling system. The WTB says that it has a system that is well established and which appears to be working well. Is the Minister content that that is the case or will there be any changes?

yn Saesneg Noda argymhellion 21 a 22 fod angen gwella system drafod y bwrdd croeso ar gyfer gwerthuso cwynion. Dywed y bwrdd croeso fod ganddo system sefydledig sy’n gweithio’n dda yn ôl pob golwg. A yw’r Gweinidog yn fodlon bod hynny yn wir neu a fydd unrhyw newidiadau?

Recommendation 23 refers to the section 4 grants, which have already been mentioned. I agree that they are important. The board says that it has reservations about the recommendations made, and I tend to agree that there is a question as to whether that should be linked to regional aid ceilings. Will the Minister comment on that?

yn Saesneg Cyfeiria argymhelliad 23 at grantiau adran 4, y cyfeiriwyd atynt eisoes. Cytunaf eu bod yn bwysig. Dywed y bwrdd fod ganddo amheuon ynglŷn â’r argymhellion a wnaed, a thueddaf i gytuno bod amheuaeth pa un a ddylid cysylltu hyn â therfynau cymorth rhanbarthol. A wnaiff y Gweinidog sylwadau ar hynny?

Recommendation 24 also refers to the need to simplify section 4 applications for prospective applicants. The WTB says that that could give rise to confusion. It seems that there is disagreement between the report and the board’s response to it. Will the Minister also comment on that?

yn Saesneg Cyfeiria argymhelliad 24 hefyd at yr angen i symleiddio ceisiadau adran 4 ar gyfer darpar ymgeiswyr. Dywed y bwrdd croeso y gallai hynny beri dryswch. Ymddengys fod anghytundeb rhwng yr adroddiad ac ymateb y bwrdd iddo. A wnaiff y Gweinidog sylwadau ar hynny hefyd?

Many questions arise from the review, which need to be answered. The Chair of the Economic Development Committee may have an angle on some of those points. The quinquennial review is not a rubber stamp. The questions that it throws up must be considered and responded to in detail, which I hope the Minister will do today.

yn Saesneg Cyfyd sawl cwestiwn o’r adolygiad, y mae angen eu hateb. Efallai y bydd gan Gadeirydd y Pwyllgor Datblygu Economaidd farn ar rai o’r pwyntiau hynny. Nid rhoi sêl bendith a wna’r adolygiad pum mlynedd. Rhaid ystyried y cwestiynau a gyfyd ac ymateb iddynt yn fanwl, a gobeithiaf y bydd y Gweinidog yn gwneud hynny heddiw.

Mick Bates spoken in English p. 71

Mick Bates siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 71

I thank the Minister for his remarks on the quinquennial review. I wish to focus on the strategic issues that I believe have not been fully considered, and I would like the Minister to comment on them. Co-ordination, which the Minister mentioned in his opening remarks, is particularly important because the recommendation for a strategic corporate planning process to identify targets in the medium term is a critical step in the process of increasing prosperity through tourism. The silo mentality does exist, although people try to deny that. This process needs to ensure that there is full integration so that we are able to see the value of the many developments that could happen. Regional selective assistance grants, Welsh Development Agency grants and European structural funding give us a window of opportunity, and that funding must be used effectively. Strategic corporate planning is the vital ingredient in ensuring that it works. I do not think that anyone would disagree with investment in quality, which is necessary. I believe that more than 40 Members visited WTB projects during the summer recess. We have all seen how important it is to raise standards. On that issue, I would also make a plea for the WTB to retain its local contact points because tourism operators are often frightened of change—as we all are—and frightened of taking forward investment to improve quality. People are often only encouraged to improve their tourism assets if they have a local WTB facilitator.

Diolchaf i’r Gweinidog am ei sylwadau ar yr adolygiad pum mlynedd. Hoffwn ganolbwyntio ar y materion strategol nas ystyriwyd yn llawn yn fy marn i, a hoffwn i’r Gweinidog wneud sylwadau arnynt. Mae gwaith cydgysylltu, y cyfeiriodd y Gweinidog ato yn ei sylwadau agoriadol, yn bwysig iawn gan fod yr argymhelliad ar gyfer proses cynllunio corfforaethol strategol i nodi targedau yn y tymor canolig yn gam hollbwysig yn y broses o gynyddu ffyniant drwy dwristiaeth. Mae meddylfryd y seilo yn bodoli, er bod pobl yn ceisio gwadu hynny. Mae angen i’r broses hon sicrhau integreiddiad llawn fel y gallwn weld gwerth y datblygiadau lu a allai ddigwydd. Rhydd grantiau cymorth rhanbarthol dewisol, grantiau Awdurdod Datblygu Cymru ac arian strwythurol Ewropeaidd gyfle inni, a rhaid defnyddio’r arian hwnnw yn effeithiol. Cynllunio corfforaethol strategol yw’r elfen hollbwysig i sicrhau ei fod yn gweithio. Ni chredaf y byddai unrhyw un yn anghytuno â buddsoddi mewn ansawdd, sy’n angenrheidiol. Credaf fod mwy na 40 o Aelodau wedi ymweld â phrosiectau’r bwrdd croeso yn ystod toriad yr haf. Yr ydym oll wedi gweld pa mor bwysig ydyw codi safonau. Ar y mater hwnnw, apeliaf ar y bwrdd croeso hefyd i gadw ei fannau cyswllt lleol am fod gweithredwyr twristiaeth yn aml yn ofni newid—fel yr ydym i gyd—ac yn ofni buddsoddi er mwyn gwella ansawdd. Yn aml dim ond os oes gan bobl hwylusydd lleol o’r bwrdd croeso y cânt eu hannog i wella eu hasedau twristiaeth.

In the milling area today, there are two perfect examples of how green tourism and cultural tourism are the future for Wales. What progress has been made in terms of the cultural tourism strategy and the sports strategy and how do they link in to the events strategy being developed by the WTB? That comes back to the concept of co-ordination in terms of ensuring that proposals within an area meet everyone’s needs.

Yn y neuadd heddiw, ceir dwy enghraifft wych o’r dyfodol i Gymru ar ffurf twristiaeth werdd a thwristiaeth ddiwylliannol. Pa gynnydd a wnaed o ran strategaeth twristiaeth ddiwylliannol a’r strategaeth chwaraeon a sut y maent yn cysylltu â’r strategaeth digwyddiadau a ddatblygir gan y bwrdd croeso? Daw hynny yn ôl at y cysyniad o gydlynu o ran sicrhau bod cynigion o fewn ardal yn diwallu anghenion pawb.

The Countryside Council for Wales—we have seen the benefits of its national trails in Wales—has adopted the theme of sustainability. There is a magnificent marketing opportunity for that in Wales, which has been exploited, but not to the extent that green tourism is what Wales is known for. The routes that the CCW have established are important, as we have all seen today. Theatr Fforwm Cymru also held an event in Cardiff last year called Agora, which young people from all over Wales attended. We must have a greater awareness of young people’s needs. Those organisations are raising awareness about every part of Wales, inside and outside the country. Cultural tourism also attracts visitors to Wales, which is crucial as it brings wealth.

Mae Cyngor Cefn Gwlad Cymru—gwelsom y manteision a ddaeth yn sgîl eu llwybrau cenedlaethol yng Nghymru—wedi mabwysiadu thema cynaliadwyedd. Mae cyfle marchnata gwych ar gyfer hynny yng Nghymru, cyfle y manteisiwyd arno, ond nid i’r graddau bod Cymru yn adnabyddus am dwristiaeth werdd. Mae’r llwybrau a sefydlwyd gan Gyngor Cefn Gwlad Cymru yn bwysig, fel yr ydym oll wedi gweld heddiw. Hefyd cynhaliodd Theatr Fforwm Cymru ddigwyddiad yng Nghaerdydd y llynedd o’r enw Agora, y daeth pobl ifanc o bob cwr o Gymru iddo. Rhaid inni fod yn fwy ymwybodol o anghenion pobl ifanc. Mae’r sefydliadau hynny yn codi ymwybyddiaeth am bob rhan o Gymru, y tu mewn a thu allan i’r wlad. Mae twristiaeth ddiwylliannol hefyd yn denu ymwelwyr i Gymru, sy’n hollbwysig gan ei bod yn dod â chyfoeth.

In terms of co-ordinating projects, I will highlight a project in my constituency with which I am heavily involved. The proposal is to refurbish a magnificent grade II listed building—an old workhouse called Y Dolydd in Llanfyllin—and turn it into a national arts and crafts centre. It is only through the efforts of the local people who support the project that the county council, the Welsh Development Agency, the WTB and the Welsh European Funding Office have all come together. We must be more proactive in co-ordinating strategies, and ensure that the WTB, the WDA and local authorities work together so that regional investment is made. We must ensure that all parties understand what is happening and that there are no silos and isolation, as is too often the case.

O ran cydgysylltu prosiectau, tynnaf sylw at brosiect yn fy etholaeth yr wyf yn chwarae rhan helaeth ynddo. Y cynnig yw adnewyddu adeilad rhestredig gradd II gwych—sef hen dloty o’r enw Y Dolydd yn Llanfyllin—a’i droi yn ganolfan celfyddydau a chrefftau genedlaethol. Dim ond drwy ymdrechion pobl leol sy’n cefnogi’r prosiect y mae’r cyngor sir, Awdurdod Datblygu Cymru, y bwrdd croeso a Swyddfa Cyllid Ewropeaidd Cymru wedi dod ynghyd. Rhaid inni fod yn fwy rhagweithiol wrth gydgysylltu strategaethau, a sicrhau bod y bwrdd croeso, y WDA ac awdurdodau lleol yn cydweithio er mwyn sicrhau buddsoddiad rhanbarthol. Rhaid inni sicrhau bob pawb yn deall yr hyn sy’n digwydd ac nad oes unrhyw seilos na gweithredu ar wahân, fel sy’n digwydd yn rhy aml.

In my experience, the WTB works well in terms of taking a strategic approach. Will the Minister comment on the progress made on the cultural and sports tourism strategies, and how they link into the events strategy?

Yn fy mhrofiad i, mae’r bwrdd croeso yn gweithio’n dda o ran mabwysiadu ymagwedd strategol. A wnaiff y Gweinidog sylwadau ar y cynnydd a wneir ar y strategaeth twristiaeth ddiwylliannol a’r strategaeth chwaraeon, a sut y maent yn cysylltu â’r strategaeth digwyddiadau?

Glyn Davies spoken in English p. 73

Glyn Davies siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 73

I was pleased to see the recommendation in the quinquennial review report and in the Government’s response that the WTB should continue in existence. I have a personal attachment to it, as I was a member of the board for five years in the early 1990s. I would be sorry to see it disappear.

Yr oeddwn yn falch o weld yr argymhelliad yn yr adroddiad ar yr adolygiad pum mlynedd ac ymateb y Llywodraeth y dylai’r bwrdd croeso barhau i fodoli. Mae gennyf gysylltiad personol ag ef, gan fy mod yn aelod o’r bwrdd am bum mlynedd ar ddechrau’r 1990au. Byddai’n chwith gennyf pe bai’n diflannu.

I am also pleased that the WTB will continue to be an Assembly sponsored public body. As Alun Cairns mentioned, there is a temptation, following devolution, for Government to become too closely involved in the operation of public bodies, rather than taking advantage of the expertise that exists within them. I understand the references to working together on the strategic direction; that is fair. However, the Minister must take into account the fact that the WTB must be allowed to operate as an ASPB if it is to have the desired effect.

Yr wyf yn falch hefyd y bydd y bwrdd croeso yn parhau i fod yn gorff cyhoeddus a noddir gan y Cynulliad. Fel y soniodd Alun Cairns, mae temtasiwn, yn dilyn datganoli, i’r Llywodraeth ymhél yn rhy agos â gweithrediadau cyrff cyhoeddus, yn hytrach na manteisio ar yr arbenigedd a geir ynddynt. Deallaf y cyfeiriadau at gydweithio ar y cyfeiriad strategol; mae hynny yn deg. Fodd bynnag, rhaid i’r Gweinidog ystyried y ffaith bod yn rhaid caniatáu i’r bwrdd croeso weithredu fel CCNC er mwyn iddo gael yr effaith a ddymunir.

The issues relevant today are the same as those relevant 10 years ago. Reference has been made to overseas marketing. I remember being part of a major campaign 10 years ago to allow the WTB to market overseas, as it was not allowed to do so at the time. It took great effort to convince the Government that this was a sensible way forward; indeed, I needed to be convinced myself. There were arguments against this. The budget was limited; probably half the WTB’s budget today. Therefore, one major issue at the time was the possibility that, if the WTB assumed responsibility for marketing Wales overseas, the British Tourist Authority would lose its responsibility and Wales would lose out. Duplication was also a concern. At that time, although the WTB and the English Tourist Board were separate boards, they shared a chairman, so there was always a suspicion that there would be more of an emphasis on promoting England. That suspicion is probably enhanced now.

Y materion sy’n berthnasol heddiw yw’r rhai a oedd yn berthnasol 10 mlynedd yn ôl. Cyfeiriwyd at farchnata dramor. Cofiaf fod yn rhan o ymgyrch fawr 10 mlynedd yn ôl i ganiatáu i’r bwrdd croeso farchnata dramor, gan nad oedd hawl ganddo i wneud hynny ar y pryd. Gofynnwyd am ymdrech fawr i argyhoeddi’r Llywodraeth bod hon yn ffordd synhwyrol ymlaen; yn wir, yr oedd angen i mi gael fy argyhoeddi fy hun. Dadleuwyd yn erbyn hynny. Cyfyngedig oedd y gyllideb; hanner cyllideb y bwrdd croeso heddiw o bosibl. Felly un mater pwysig ar y pryd oedd y posibilrwydd y byddai’r Awdurdod Twristiaeth Prydeinig yn colli ei gyfrifoldeb ac y byddai Cymru ar ei cholled pe bai’r bwrdd croeso yn ymgymryd â’r cyfrifoldeb dros farchnata Cymru dramor. Yr oedd dyblygu hefyd yn achos pryder. Ar y pryd, er bod y bwrdd croeso a Bwrdd Twristiaeth Lloegr yn fyrddau ar wahân, rhannent gadeirydd, felly yr oedd bob amser ddrwgdybiaeth y byddai mwy o bwyslais ar hyrwyddo Lloegr. Mae mwy o ddrwgdybiaeth byth erbyn hyn yn ôl pob tebyg.

If the WTB is to exercise its overseas function, we must recognise that most people who visit Wales visit elsewhere in Britain also. Therefore, a degree of liaison with the Scottish Tourist Board, the BTA and even the English Tourist Board would be beneficial in terms of promoting the Welsh product. It must also liaise with those bodies involved in overseas marketing. There is a dispute as to the degree to which we are evolving overseas embassies. The WDA is increasing its presence; perhaps it is contributing to the creation of embassies. We have a grandly-titled Minister for Wales Abroad. I hope that all the overseas developments are co-ordinated. Perhaps co-ordinating tourism marketing overseas is a job for the Minister for Wales Abroad; I have been searching for a job for him.

Er mwyn i’r bwrdd croeso arfer ei swyddogaeth dramor, rhaid inni gydnabod bod y rhan fwyaf o bobl sy’n ymweld â Chymru yn ymweld â mannau eraill ym Mhrydain hefyd. Felly, byddai rhywfaint o gydgysylltu â Bwrdd Twristiaeth yr Alban, yr Awdurdod Twristiaeth Prydeinig a hyd yn oed Bwrdd Twristiaeth Lloegr yn fuddiol o ran hyrwyddo Cymru. Rhaid hefyd iddo gydgysylltu â’r cyrff hynny sy’n ymwneud â marchnata dramor. Mae dadl ynglŷn â’r graddau yr ydym yn datblygu llysgenadaethau dramor. Mae’r WDA yn cynyddu ei bresenoldeb; efallai ei fod yn cyfrannu at greu llysgenadaethau. Mae gennym Weinidog sy’n dwyn y teitl crand Gweinidog dros Gymru Dramor. Gobeithiaf fod yr holl ddatblygiadau dramor wedi’u cydgysylltu. Efallai fod cydgysylltu gwaith marchnata twristiaeth dramor yn swydd i’r Gweinidog dros Gymru Dramor; bûm yn chwilio am waith iddo.

The section 4 grants also take me back to 10 years ago, when I advocated the abolition of section 4 grants within the WTB because money could not be transferred between budget headings at that time. With such a small budget, the need to market Wales within the UK was such that there was pressure for the section 4 grants to be abolished. However, the WTB’s budget is much greater now, and I am pleased that the section 4 grants will remain. They should certainly continue during the period of the Objective 1 programme and the ensuing transitional arrangements. The section 4 grants mechanism demonstrates how to get money out to projects, which has been a major problem with Objective 1. The WTB has delivered on this, whereas Objective 1 has failed in many other respects.

Mae’r sôn am grantiau adran 4 hefyd yn fy atgoffa o’r sefyllfa 10 mlynedd yn ôl, pan siaredais o blaid diddymu grantiau adran 4 o fewn y bwrdd croeso am na ellid trosglwyddo arian rhwng penawdau cyllideb bryd hynny. Gyda chyllideb mor fach, cymaint oedd yr angen i farchnata Cymru o fewn y DU fel bod pwysau i ddiddymu grantiau adran 4. Fodd bynnag, mae gan y bwrdd croeso gyllideb lawer mwy erbyn hyn, ac yr wyf yn falch o glywed y bydd y grantiau adran 4 yn parhau. Dylent yn sicr barhau yn ystod cyfnod rhaglen Amcan 1 a’r trefniadau trosiannol dilynol. Dengys grantiau adran 4 sut y dylid dosbarthu arian i brosiectau, a fu’n broblem fawr gydag Amcan 1. Mae’r bwrdd croeso wedi cyflawni hyn, tra bod Amcan 1 wedi methu â gwneud hyn ar sawl cyfrif arall.

Finally, for the WTB to be effective and to be worthwhile retaining as a separate body, it must have a worthwhile budget. That is currently the case but, 10 years ago, it was questionable. Following devolution, to some extent, there has been a new focus on tourism. It is recognised as a hugely important industry in Wales, there is a greater emphasis on the WTB, and the budget is much more now. However, a significant part of that budget is Objective 1 funding. It is likely that that the level of funding will cease at some stage. The WTB, as part of its strategic approach with the Government, must identify replacements for Objective 1 funding when it is no longer available—funding that gives it the critical mass that make its efforts worthwhile.

Yn olaf, er mwyn i’r bwrdd croeso fod yn effeithiol ac yn werth ei gadw fel corff ar wahân, rhaid iddo gael cyllideb o werth. Mae hynny yn wir ar hyn o bryd ond, 10 mlynedd yn ôl, yr oedd hynny yn amheus. Yn dilyn datganoli, i ryw raddau, bu pwys newydd ar dwristiaeth. Fe’i cydnabyddir fel diwydiant pwysig iawn yng Nghymru, mae mwy o bwyslais ar y bwrdd croeso, ac mae mwy o gyllideb erbyn hyn. Fodd bynnag, arian Amcan 1 yw rhan sylweddol o’r gyllideb honno. Mae’n debygol y daw’r lefel honno o arian i ben ryw bryd neu’i gilydd. Rhaid i’r bwrdd croeso, fel rhan o’i ymagwedd strategol gyda’r Llywodraeth, nodi arian arall yn lle arian Amcan 1 pan na fydd ar gael bellach—yr isafswm arian sydd ei angen i sicrhau bod ei ymdrechion o werth.

Andrew Davies The Minister for Economic Development spoken in English p. 75

Andrew Davies Y Gweinidog dros Ddatblygu Economaidd siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 75

Members echo the view that the Wales Tourist Board is doing an excellent job in promoting and marketing tourism, not just in Wales and the UK, but abroad. However, there is a different relationship, post devolution, between sponsored public bodies and the Government in Wales. It is legitimate for the Assembly and the Assembly Government to review the work of the ASPBs. They are accountable for their use of public funds, and we must review them and make them more effective if there is room for improvement, as there always is in any organisation.

Mae Aelodau yn ategu’r farn bod Bwrdd Croeso Cymru yn gwneud gwaith rhagorol wrth hyrwyddo a marchnata twristiaeth, nid yn unig yng Nghymru a’r DU, ond dramor. Fodd bynnag, mae perthynas wahanol, ar ôl datganoli, rhwng cyrff cyhoeddus a noddir a’r Llywodraeth yng Nghymru. Mae’n ddilys bod y Cynulliad a Llywodraeth y Cynulliad yn adolygu gwaith CCNC. Maent yn atebol am eu defnydd o arian cyhoeddus, a rhaid inni eu hadolygu a’u gwneud yn fwy effeithiol os oes lle i wella, fel y mae bob amser mewn unrhyw sefydliad.

Alun Cairns mentioned the new British Tourist Authority. Alun’s comments were factually incorrect. The primary responsibility of the BTA in the past and in the future—whatever it will be called—will not be to promote England, but to promote Britain as a tourist attraction. Of course, it will have a role in promoting England. The previous complaint was that the BTA did not promote Wales sufficiently, yet my experience—on visits to the United States, in particular in September, and Dublin in October—was that the BTA is doing a huge amount to promote Wales. I was pleasantly surprised to see the work that has been done, which will be done in the future. That is not being complacent; we want to see Wales promoted further.

Cyfeiriodd Alun Cairns at yr Awdurdod Twristiaeth Prydeinig newydd. Yr oedd sylwadau Alun yn ffeithiol anghywir. Prif gyfrifoldeb yr Awdurdod Twristiaeth Prydeinig yn y gorffennol ac yn y dyfodol—beth bynnag y’i gelwir—fydd hyrwyddo Prydain yn hytrach na Lloegr fel atyniad i ymwelwyr. Wrth gwrs, bydd rhan ganddo i’w chwarae i hyrwyddo Lloegr. Y gŵyn flaenorol oedd nad oedd yr Awdurdod Twristiaeth Prydeinig yn hyrwyddo Cymru ddigon, ond eto fy mhrofiad i—o ymweliadau â’r Unol Daleithiau ym mis Medi yn bennaf ac â Dulyn ym mis Hydref—oedd bod yr Awdurdod yn gwneud cryn dipyn i hyrwyddo Cymru. Cefais fy siomi ar yr ochr orau o weld y gwaith a wnaed, ac a gaiff ei wneud yn y dyfodol. Nid wyf yn hunanfodlon; yr ydym am weld Cymru yn cael ei hyrwyddo ymhellach.

Alun Cairns spoken in English p. 75

Alun Cairns siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 75

Do you accept the potential for a conflict of interest if an organisation has two roles: one to promote England within the UK and the other to promote Britain overseas? Wales is a smaller part of the market, so marketing England overseas will dominate, and the promotion of Wales will be almost insignificant.

A dderbyniwch fod gwrthdaro buddiannau yn bosibl os oes gan sefydliad ddwy rôl: y naill yn hyrwyddo Lloegr o fewn y DU a’r llall yn hyrwyddo Prydain dramor? Mae Cymru yn gyfran lai o’r farchnad, felly marchnata Lloegr dramor fydd yn mynd â’r rhan fwyaf o’r sylw, a rhan ddibwys bron fydd hyrwyddo Cymru.

Andrew Davies spoken in English p. 75

Andrew Davies siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 75

There is a danger of a conflict of interest. I raised that issue with my opposite number in the Department for Culture, Media and Sport, as did my Scottish colleague, Mike Watson. We made strong representations on the proposed restructuring. We feel that there has been considerable movement away from the original proposals, accommodating our concerns and those of our Scottish colleagues about any conflict of interest. We are pleased that the arrangements take into account the new devolved settlement in the UK in terms of budget and accountability. There is provision for the Assembly, for example, and for the Economic Development Committee, as it is presently constituted, to hold the BTA and its officials to account for its expenditures and priorities. I am therefore assured that the changes will accommodate our needs in Wales.

Mae perygl o wrthdaro buddiannau. Codais y mater hwnnw gyda’r Gweinidog cyfatebol yn yr Adran dros Ddiwylliant, y Cyfryngau a Chwaraeon, fel y gwnaeth fy nghyd-aelod yn yr Alban, Mike Watson. Gwnaethom sylwadau cryf ynglŷn â’r ailstrwythuro arfaethedig. Teimlwn fod cryn bellhau oddi wrth y cynigion gwreiddiol wedi bod, a bod ein pryderon a phryderon ein cyd-aelodau yn yr Alban ynglŷn ag unrhyw wrthdaro buddiannau wedi’u hystyried. Yr ydym yn falch bod y trefniadau yn ystyried y setliad datganoledig newydd yn y DU o ran cyllideb ac atebolrwydd. Mae darpariaeth i’r Cynulliad, er enghraifft, ac i’r Pwyllgor Datblygu Economaidd, fel y’i sefydlir ar hyn o bryd, ddwyn yr Awdurdod Twristiaeth Prydeinig a’i swyddogion i gyfrif am ei wariant a’i flaenoriaethau. Felly fe’m sicrheir y bydd y newidiadau yn diwallu ein hanghenion yng Nghymru.

Several Members mentioned section 4 grants. I agree that they are extremely important. That is why I am pleased by the quinquennial review’s recommendation that the WTB retain the ability to award section 4 grants. They have proved successful, and the WTB is the only tourist authority in the UK that has this power, as has been pointed out.

Cyfeiriodd sawl Aelod at grantiau adran 4. Cytunaf eu bod yn hynod bwysig. Dyna pam yr wyf yn falch bod yr adolygiad pum mlynedd wedi argymell y dylai’r bwrdd croeso gadw’r gallu i ddyfarnu grantiau adran 4. Buont yn llwyddiannus, a’r bwrdd croeso yw’r unig awdurdod twristiaeth yn y DU sy’n meddu ar y pŵer hwn, fel y nodwyd.

However, my view—and that of the quinquennial review—is that the grant scheme needs to be prioritised to match conditions of regional selective assistance and Assembly investment grants, where a differential rate is applied depending on whether or not businesses or organisations are within an assisted area.

Fodd bynnag, fy marn i—a barn yr adolygiad pum mlynedd—yw bod angen blaenoriaethu’r cynllun grantiau i gydweddu ag amodau cymorth rhanbarthol dewisol a grantiau buddsoddi’r Cynulliad, lle mae cyfradd wahaniaethol yn gymwys yn dibynnu ar ba un a yw busnesau neu sefydliadau o fewn ardal a gynorthwyir ai peidio.

As a Government—and I am sure other Assembly Members will agree—we need to raise economic activity levels and prosperity in assisted areas as a priority; we must emphasise that. Members from many parties often ask me what we are doing about Objective 1 areas. I feel, and the review supports my view, that a differential rate of payment is needed for section 4 grants. Caveats are included, however. The Wales Tourist Board has given details of existing priorities and programmes, and we have accepted their caveats. However, we feel that, in the medium to long term, we should move towards prioritising assisted areas. Most Members would find that fair in terms of our overall economic priorities.

Fel Llywodraeth—ac yr wyf yn siŵr y bydd Aelodau Cynulliad eraill yn cytuno—mae angen inni godi lefelau gweithgaredd economaidd a ffyniant mewn ardaloedd a gynorthwyir fel blaenoriaeth; rhaid inni bwysleisio hynny. Bydd Aelodau o sawl plaid yn aml yn gofyn imi ddweud wrthynt beth yr ydym yn ei wneud ynglŷn ag ardaloedd Amcan 1. Teimlaf, ac mae’r adolygiad yn ategu fy marn, bod angen cyfradd wahaniaethol o daliadau ar gyfer grantiau adran 4. Ond mae’n cynnwys amodau. Mae Bwrdd Croeso Cymru wedi rhoi manylion eu blaenoriaethau a’u rhaglenni presennol, ac yr ydym wedi derbyn eu hamodau. Fodd bynnag, teimlwn y dylem symud tuag at roi blaenoriaeth i ardaloedd a gynorthwyir yn y tymor canolig a’r tymor hir. Byddai’r rhan fwyaf o Aelodau yn gweld bod hynny yn deg o ran ein blaenoriaethau economaidd cyffredinol.

On Mick Bates’s points about cultural and sports tourism, I agree that they are important to attracting visitors and that they feed strongly into the national events strategy; those points were well made. The cultural tourism strategy has been developed and will be launched in the near future. Dafydd raised several points about some of the recommendations. I will write to him answering those points in detail. As there were so many, Dafydd, it was difficult to make notes on them all, but I will write to you.

O ran pwyntiau Mick Bates ynglŷn â thwristiaeth ddiwylliannol a thwristiaeth chwaraeon, cytunaf eu bod yn bwysig i ddenu ymwelwyr a bod dolen gyswllt gref rhyngddynt a’r strategaeth digwyddiadau genedlaethol; gwnaeth y pwyntiau hynny yn dda. Datblygwyd y strategaeth twristiaeth ddiwylliannol a chaiff ei lansio yn y dyfodol agos. Cododd Dafydd sawl pwynt ynglŷn â rhai o’r argymhellion. Ysgrifennaf ato i ateb y pwyntiau hynny yn fanwl. Gan fod cynifer, Dafydd, yr oedd yn anodd nodi pob un, ond ysgrifennaf atoch.

I commend the quinquennial review to Members and ask you to support its recommendations. I ask you to oppose the amendments, as I do not feel that they add anything of value to the review or to its conclusions and recommendations.

Cymeradwyaf yr adolygiad pum mlynedd i’r Aelodau a gofynnaf ichi gefnogi ei argymhellion. Gofynnaf ichi wrthod y gwelliannau, gan nad ydynt yn ychwanegu dim byd o werth at yr adolygiad na’i gasgliadau a’i argymhellion yn fy marn i.

Gwelliant 1 Alun Cairns t. 77

Amendment 1 Alun Cairns p. 77

GwrthodwydRejected O blaidFor 6 YmatalAbstain 7 Yn erbynAgainst 24

Gwrthodwyd y gwelliant.

Amendment rejected.

Sut y pleidleisiodd yr AelodauHow Members voted
O blaidFor (6)
  • Nick Bourne
  • Alun Cairns
  • Glyn Davies
  • William Graham
  • David Ian Jones
  • Jonathan Morgan
YmatalAbstain (7)
  • Cynog Dafis
  • Brian Hancock
  • Elin Jones
  • David Lloyd
  • Janet Ryder
  • Rhodri Glyn Thomas
  • Dafydd Wigley
Yn erbynAgainst (24)
  • Lorraine Barrett
  • Mick Bates
  • Peter Black
  • Rosemary Butler
  • Christine Chapman
  • Jane Davidson
  • Andrew Davies
  • Ron Davies
  • Richard Edwards
  • Sue Essex
  • Delyth Evans
  • Janice Gregory
  • John Griffiths
  • Christine Gwyther
  • Alison Halford
  • Edwina Hart
  • Jane Hutt
  • Peter Law
  • Huw Lewis
  • Lynne Neagle
  • Alun Pugh
  • Jenny Randerson
  • Gwenda Thomas
  • Kirsty Williams

Gwelliant 2 Alun Cairns t. 78

Amendment 2 Alun Cairns p. 78

GwrthodwydRejected O blaidFor 14 YmatalAbstain 0 Yn erbynAgainst 24

Gwrthodwyd y gwelliant.

Amendment rejected.

Sut y pleidleisiodd yr AelodauHow Members voted
O blaidFor (14)
  • Nick Bourne
  • Alun Cairns
  • Cynog Dafis
  • Glyn Davies
  • William Graham
  • Brian Hancock
  • David Ian Jones
  • Elin Jones
  • David Lloyd
  • Jonathan Morgan
  • Peter Rogers
  • Janet Ryder
  • Rhodri Glyn Thomas
  • Dafydd Wigley
Yn erbynAgainst (24)
  • Lorraine Barrett
  • Mick Bates
  • Peter Black
  • Rosemary Butler
  • Christine Chapman
  • Jane Davidson
  • Andrew Davies
  • Ron Davies
  • Richard Edwards
  • Sue Essex
  • Delyth Evans
  • Janice Gregory
  • John Griffiths
  • Christine Gwyther
  • Alison Halford
  • Edwina Hart
  • Jane Hutt
  • Peter Law
  • Huw Lewis
  • Lynne Neagle
  • Alun Pugh
  • Jenny Randerson
  • Gwenda Thomas
  • Kirsty Williams

Cynnig NDM1299 Andrew Davies t. 78

Motion NDM1299 Andrew Davies p. 78

DerbyniwydAdopted O blaidFor 38 YmatalAbstain 0 Yn erbynAgainst 0

Derbyniwyd y cynnig.

Motion carried.

Sut y pleidleisiodd yr AelodauHow Members voted
O blaidFor (38)
  • Lorraine Barrett
  • Mick Bates
  • Peter Black
  • Nick Bourne
  • Rosemary Butler
  • Alun Cairns
  • Christine Chapman
  • Cynog Dafis
  • Jane Davidson
  • Andrew Davies
  • Glyn Davies
  • Ron Davies
  • Richard Edwards
  • Sue Essex
  • Delyth Evans
  • William Graham
  • Janice Gregory
  • John Griffiths
  • Christine Gwyther
  • Alison Halford
  • Brian Hancock
  • Edwina Hart
  • Jane Hutt
  • David Ian Jones
  • Elin Jones
  • Peter Law
  • Huw Lewis
  • David Lloyd
  • Jonathan Morgan
  • Lynne Neagle
  • Alun Pugh
  • Jenny Randerson
  • Peter Rogers
  • Janet Ryder
  • Gwenda Thomas
  • Rhodri Glyn Thomas
  • Dafydd Wigley
  • Kirsty Williams

Dadl Fer

Short Debate

Ysbytai Cymunedol

Community Hospitals

Kirsty Williams spoken in English p. 79

Kirsty Williams siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 79

I have agreed to allow Dai Lloyd and Nick Bourne to contribute to this short debate. Colleagues, another day, another debate. Rosemary Butler has suggested that this would be a good week for me to play the lottery, since I have already succeeded in two ballots, given the debate on prescription charges yesterday.

Yr wyf wedi cytuno i ganiatáu i Dai Lloyd a Nick Bourne gyfrannu at y ddadl fer hon. Gyd-Aelodau, dyma ddiwrnod arall a dadl arall. Mae Rosemary Butler wedi awgrymu y byddai hon yn wythnos dda imi chwarae’r loteri, gan fy mod eisoes wedi llwyddo mewn dwy bleidlais yn y ddadl ar ffioedd presgripsiwn ddoe.

John Marek The Deputy Presiding Officer spoken in English p. 79

John Marek Y Dirprwy Llywydd siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 79

Order. Jane Davidson and Huw Lewis, it is disrespectful to the Member speaking to hold conversations in the Chamber.

Trefn. Jane Davidson a Huw Lewis, mae’n amharchus i’r Aelod sy’n siarad i gynnal sgyrsiau yn y Siambr.

Kirsty Williams spoken in English p. 79

Kirsty Williams siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 79

Today, I want to divert Members’ attention away from prescription charges and draw it instead to community hospitals, an aspect of the national health service that is often overlooked; it is highly regarded by all our constituents, and is a vital component for a modern, efficient NHS. I would even go as far as to suggest that a new strategic vision, and an associated commitment of resources to community hospitals could help us to address some of the problems that have dogged our district general hospitals.

Heddiw, hoffwn droi sylw’r Aelodau oddi wrth ffioedd presgripsiwn at ysbytai cymunedol, agwedd ar y gwasanaeth iechyd gwladol a anwybyddir yn aml; mae gan ein holl etholwyr barch mawr tuag ati, ac mae’n elfen hanfodol ar gyfer GIG modern ac effeithlon. Byddwn hyd yn oed yn mynd mor bell ag awgrymu y gallai gweledigaeth strategol newydd, ac ymrwymiad cysylltiedig o adnoddau i ysbytai cymunedol ein cynorthwyo i fynd i’r afael â rhai o’r problemau a fu’n bla ar ein hysbytai cyffredinol dosbarth.

Living in and representing Brecon and Radnorshire, I know how important community hospitals are from personal and professional experience. The absence of a district general hospital in my constituency and throughout Powys focuses attention on what services can and cannot be delivered in a community setting, it focuses attention on access—many of my constituents live up to an hour away from a district general hospital, literally in another country—and on what untapped potential there is in community hospitals up and down Wales.

Gan fy mod yn cynrychioli Brycheiniog a Sir Faesyfed ac yn byw yno, o brofiad personol a phroffesiynol gwn pa mor bwysig yw ysbytai cymunedol. Mae absenoldeb ysbyty cyffredinol dosbarth yn fy etholaeth i a thrwy Bowys gyfan yn hoelio’r sylw ar ba wasanaethau y gellir eu darparu mewn lleoliad cymunedol a pha rai na ellir eu darparu, yn hoelio sylw ar fynediad—mae nifer o’m hetholwyr yn byw hyd at awr i ffwrdd oddi wrth ysbyty cyffredinol dosbarth, yn llythrennol mewn sir arall—ac ar ba botensial heb ei ddefnyddio sydd mewn ysbytai cymunedol ar hyd a lled Cymru.

In 1996, the Welsh Office produced authoritative guidance entitled ‘Community Hospitals: the future’, and the Assembly Government has invested heavily in capital programmes, with important announcements of new or replacement community hospitals throughout Wales. I welcome the multi-million-pound refurbishment of many of the hospitals in my constituency, but I believe that we now need a new vision for community hospitals. We must invest in the hospitals and their staff, and acknowledge and support the contribution they make, and expand upon it.

Yn 1996, cynhyrchodd y Swyddfa Gymreig arweiniad awdurdodol yn dwyn yr enw ‘Ysbytai Cymunedol: y dyfodol’, ac mae Llywodraeth y Cynulliad wedi buddsoddi’n drwm mewn rhaglenni cyfalaf, gyda chyhoeddiadau pwysig am ysbytai cymunedol newydd neu adnewyddu hen ysbytai ledled Cymru. Croesawaf y gwaith adnewyddu gwerth miliynau o bunnoedd a wneir i lawer o’r ysbytai yn fy etholaeth i, ond credaf fod angen gweledigaeth newydd arnom yn awr ar gyfer ysbytai cymunedol. Rhaid inni fuddsoddi yn yr ysbytai a’u staff, a chydnabod a chynorthwyo’r cyfraniad a wnânt, ac ehangu arno.

For the uninitiated, the term ‘community hospital’ may conjure up images of benign nursing care for elderly patients but the reality is radically different. With their intimate and friendly maternity units, intensive rehabilitation programmes, and cataract and other surgeries, community hospitals across Wales offer a complex range of services to meet their communities’ needs.

I’r rhai nad ydynt yn gyfarwydd â’r term, gall ‘ysbyty cymunedol’ greu delweddau o ofal nyrsio hynaws ar gyfer cleifion hŷn ond mae’r realiti yn wahanol iawn. Gyda’u hunedau mamolaeth clòs a chyfeillgar, rhaglenni adsefydlu dwys, a llawdriniaethau cataract a llawdriniaethau eraill, mae ysbytai cymunedol ledled Cymru yn cynnig amrywiaeth cymhleth o wasanaethau er mwyn diwallu anghenion eu cymunedau.

The benefits of delivering care in such a setting are clear. In my constituency, and in many other Members’ constituencies, access—and the fact that the hospital is a community facility—make a world of difference. It is simpler for patients and their relatives to access a community hospital, and its environment will be more familiar and reassuring to them at an often stressful and worrying time. Although difficult to quantify and identify, it seems to me that the atmosphere often differs to that of a district general hospital in being more relaxed, and the staff have more time to spend in caring for their patients. I visited my mother this morning in Mynydd Mawr Hospital in Carmarthenshire, a hospital which has often been threatened with closure. My mother also spent some time in the local district general hospital. Although she has no complaints about the district general hospital, on moving to Mynydd Mawr Hospital, she said that it was much nicer there, and that the nurses have more time to talk to her and to attend to her needs.

Mae manteision cyflwyno gofal mewn lleoliad o’r fath yn amlwg. Yn fy etholaeth, ac yn etholaethau nifer o Aelodau eraill, mae mynediad—a’r ffaith bod yr ysbyty yn gyfleuster cymunedol—yn gwneud byd o wahaniaeth. Mae’n haws i gleifion a’u perthnasau gael mynediad i ysbyty cymunedol, a bydd ei amgylchedd yn fwy cyfarwydd ac yn rhoi tawelwch meddwl iddynt ar adeg sy’n aml yn llawn straen a gofid. Er ei fod yn anodd i’w feintioli a’i nodi, ymddengys i mi fod yr awyrgylch yn aml yn wahanol i awyrgylch ysbyty cyffredinol dosbarth oherwydd ei fod yn fwy hamddenol, ac mae gan y staff fwy o amser i dreulio yn gofalu am eu cleifion. Ymwelais â’m mam y bore hwn yn Ysbyty Mynydd Mawr yn Sir Gaerfyrddin, ysbyty y bygythiwyd ei gau ar sawl achlysur. Yn ogystal, treuliodd fy mam beth amser yn yr ysbyty cyffredinol y dosbarth lleol. Er nad oes ganddi gwynion am ysbyty cyffredinol y dosbarth, ar ôl symud i Ysbyty Mynydd Mawr, dywedodd ei bod yn llawer mwy dymunol yno, a bod gan y nyrsys fwy o amser i siarad â hi a diwallu ei hanghenion.

The medical benefits are also clear and community hospitals are cheaper to run. The cost of occupying a bed in a district general hospital can be five times higher than in a community facility and waiting times and lists are often shorter. It is almost embarrassing for me to talk of the waiting times for my constituents that access surgery through Breconshire War Memorial Hospital because they are considerably shorter than they would be if they were receiving such treatments in a district general hospital.

Yn ogystal, mae’r manteision iechyd yn amlwg ac mae ysbytai cymunedol yn rhatach i’w rhedeg. Gall cost gwely mewn ysbyty cyffredinol dosbarth fod bum gwaith yn uwch nag mewn cyfleuster cymunedol ac mae amseroedd a rhestrau aros yn aml yn fyrrach. Yn ogystal, mae’n peri embaras imi siarad am amseroedd aros fy etholwyr sy’n cael mynediad i lawdriniaeth drwy Ysbyty Coffa Brycheiniog oherwydd maent yn llai o dipyn na phe baent yn derbyn triniaethau o’r fath mewn ysbyty cyffredinol dosbarth.

Community hospitals also lend themselves to more appropriate patient care and better use of facilities throughout the NHS as a whole. The 1996 Welsh Office report suggested that some 10 per cent of patients in acute hospitals could be treated in community hospitals. I would go so far as to suggest that, with the development of telemedicine and the progress in medical techniques, even more people currently accessing services via the district general hospital could do so in community hospital settings. Community hospitals can facilitate early discharge of patients for rehabilitation and recovery and can provide those services in a planned way that would help to prevent the revolving-door syndrome, whereby people suffering from acute ailments are constantly readmitted.

Yn ogystal, mae ysbytai cymunedol yn addas i ofal cleifion mwy priodol a gwell defnydd o adnoddau drwy’r GIG yn gyffredinol. Awgrymodd adroddiad 1996 y Swyddfa Gymreig y gallai rhyw 10 y cant o gleifion mewn ysbytai aciwt gael eu trin mewn ysbytai cymunedol. Byddwn yn mynd mor bell ag awgrymu, gyda datblygiad telefeddygaeth a’r cynnydd mewn technegau meddygol, y gallai hyd yn oed mwy o bobl sy’n cael mynediad i wasanaethau drwy ysbyty cyffredinol y dosbarth wneud hynny mewn ysbyty cymunedol. Gall ysbytai cymunedol hwyluso rhyddhau cleifion yn gynnar ar gyfer adsefydlu a gwella a gall ddarparu’r gwasanaethau hynny mewn modd sydd wedi’i gynllunio a fyddai’n helpu i atal y syndrom drws troi, lle bydd pobl sy’n dioddef o anhwylderau difrifol yn mynd yn ôl i’r ysbyty droeon.

A week ago, we saw the publication of Professor Brian Edwards’s report into orthopaedic waiting times at the Royal Gwent Hospital. The report pointed to many different measures that should be taken to improve the situation for patients in that area, but there was also a specific recommendation about the use of community facilities. Professor Edwards recommended that facilities be developed at the county hospital, which I believe is in Panteg, to help the Royal Gwent Hospital address some of its problems with orthopaedic waiting lists. It is no surprise that the fact that services that have not been developed at Panteg Hospital or St Woolos Hospital now contributes to some of the worst waiting list problems in that area. It cannot be a coincidence that enhanced community facilities do not exist uniformly through the Royal Gwent Hospital’s catchment areas and that it is struggling to meet the demands placed upon it by patients.

Wythnos yn ôl, gwelsom gyhoeddi adroddiad yr Athro Brian Edwards ar amseroedd aros orthopedig yn Ysbyty Brenhinol Gwent. Nododd yr adroddiad nifer o fesurau gwahanol y dylid eu cymryd er mwyn gwella’r sefyllfa ar gyfer cleifion yn y maes hwnnw, ond yr oedd hefyd argymhelliad penodol ynglŷn â’r defnydd o gyfleusterau cymunedol. Argymhellodd yr Athro Edwards fod cyfleusterau’n cael eu datblygu yn ysbyty’r sir, sydd ym Mhanteg mi gredaf, er mwyn cynorthwyo Ysbyty Brenhinol Gwent i fynd i’r afael â rhai o’i broblemau â rhestrau aros orthopedig. Nid yw’n syndod bod y ffaith bod gwasanaethau na chawsant eu datblygu yn Ysbyty Panteg neu Ysbyty Eglwys Gwynlliw bellach yn cyfrannu at rai o’r problemau gwaethaf yn ymwneud â rhestrau aros yn y maes hwnnw. Nid cyd-ddigwyddiad yw’r ffaith nad oes cyfleusterau cymunedol gwell yn bodoli yn unffurf drwy ddalgylchoedd Ysbyty Brenhinol Gwent a’i fod yn brwydro i fodloni’r galw gan gleifion.

I regret the fact that my hard work with my local trust to try to develop a partnership with the district general hospitals of Swansea has been to no avail. While the problems of Singleton Hospital and Morriston Hospital may not be as acute as those of the Royal Gwent, they are still under great pressure. Why, then, has it not been possible to develop a relationship between those hospitals and Powys? Why has it not been possible to use capacity in the Ystradgynlais Community Hospital to provide a step-down facility for patients from Singleton and Morriston hospitals? If the capacity in Ystradgynlais hospital could be used for those patients, not only would it mean that they could be treated closer to home, but it would free up essential space in district general hospitals.

Gresynaf at y ffaith i’m gwaith caled gyda’m hymddiriedolaeth leol er mwyn ceisio datblygu partneriaeth ag ysbytai cyffredinol dosbarth Abertawe fod yn ofer. Er nad yw problemau Ysbyty Singleton ac Ysbyty Treforys mor ddifrifol o bosibl â’r rhai yn Ysbyty Brenhinol Gwent, maent o dan bwysau mawr o hyd. Pam, felly, na fu’n bosibl datblygu perthynas rhwng yr ysbytai hynny a Phowys? Pam na fu’n bosibl defnyddio’r capasiti yn Ysbyty Cymunedol Ystradgynlais er mwyn darparu cyfleuster cam i lawr i gleifion o ysbytai Singleton a Threforys? Pe byddai modd defnyddio’r capasiti yn ysbyty Ystradgynlais ar gyfer y cleifion hynny, byddai hynny nid yn unig yn golygu y gellid eu trin yn agosach i’w cartrefi, ond byddai’n rhyddhau lle hanfodol mewn ysbytai cyffredinol dosbarth.

Clinical governance is an issue and it makes delivering services within a community setting perhaps more complex than delivering them in a district general hospital. However, as I said in a meeting in Brecon last week, I make no apology for national service frameworks or clinical standards. As Chair of the Health and Social Services Committee, I have seen too often the results of a lack of clinical standards. One only has to think of the scandals at the Bristol Royal Infirmary and at Alder Hey Hospital, and the adverse incidents experienced in Carmarthenshire. That shows what happens when you do not give due regard to clinical standards. Unlike some Members here, I do not believe that clinical governance is a laudable aim; I believe that it is a must. I do not believe that people living in rural areas should accept lower standards of treatment than their urban counterparts; that is unacceptable. However, working with community hospitals, we can consider ways of delivering a high standard of care in a community setting. That would allow more people to be treated closer to home. Can it be sensible for patients from my constituency, or any Member’s constituency, to travel many miles for an out-patient appointment that often lasts between 10 to 15 minutes? Is it sensible for eight patients to travel from Brecon to Abergavenny to see the same consultant? Would it not make more sense for that consultant to travel to Brecon or, even better, to establish telemedicine links between Llandrindod Wells Hospital and Hereford County Hospital? In a local setting, supported by a nurse to help with the consultation exercise, neither patient nor doctor need travel too far. That would increase the number of patients that a consultant can see, as well as being much more convenient for the patients concerned.

Mae rheolaeth glinigol yn ffactor ac mae’n gwneud darparu gwasanaethau o fewn lleoliad cymunedol yn fwy cymhleth efallai na’u darparu mewn ysbyty cyffredinol dosbarth. Fodd bynnag, fel y dywedais mewn cyfarfod yn Aberhonddu yr wythnos diwethaf, nid ymddiheuraf am fframweithiau gwasanaeth cenedlaethol neu safonau clinigol. Fel Cadeirydd y Pwyllgor Iechyd a Gwasanaethau Cymdeithasol, yr wyf wedi gweld canlyniadau diffyg safonau clinigol yn rhy aml. Nid oes ond rhaid ichi feddwl am y sgandal yn Ysbyty Brenhinol Bryste ac yn Ysbyty Alder Hey, a’r digwyddiadau ofnadwy yn Sir Gaerfyrddin. Dengys hynny yr hyn sy’n digwydd pan na roddwch ystyriaeth ddigonol i safonau clinigol. Yn wahanol i rai Aelodau yma, ni chredaf fod rheolaeth glinigol yn nod canmoladwy; nod hanfodol ydyw. Ni chredaf y dylai pobl sy’n byw mewn ardaloedd gwledig dderbyn safonau triniaeth is na phobl sy’n byw mewn trefi; mae hynny’n annerbyniol. Fodd bynnag, gan weithio gydag ysbytai cymunedol, gallwn ystyried ffyrdd o ddarparu gofal o safon uchel mewn lleoliad cymunedol. Byddai hynny’n caniatáu i fwy o bobl gael triniaeth yn agosach i’w cartrefi. A yw’n gwneud synnwyr i gleifion o’m hetholaeth i, neu etholaeth unrhyw Aelod, orfod teithio milltiroedd lawer ar gyfer apwyntiad cleifion allanol sy’n aml yn parhau rhwng 10 a 15 munud? A yw’n synhwyrol i wyth claf deithio o Aberhonddu i’r Fenni i weld yr un ymgynghorydd? Oni fyddai’n gwneud mwy o synnwyr i’r ymgynghorydd hwnnw deithio i Aberhonddu neu, yn well byth, i sefydlu cysylltiadau telefeddygaeth rhwng Ysbyty Llandrindod ac Ysbyty Sirol Henffordd? Mewn amgylchedd lleol, wedi’u cynorthwyo gan nyrs i helpu â’r ymgynghoriad, nid oes yn rhaid i glaf na meddyg deithio yn rhy bell. Byddai hynny’n cynyddu nifer y cleifion y gall ymgynghorydd eu gweld, yn ogystal â bod yn llawer mwy cyfleus i’r cleifion dan sylw.

Several treatments currently delivered in district general hospitals could be delivered in community settings. We must be bold and think outside the box. By working in clinical networks, and by establishing agreed protocols between staff in community settings and those in district general hospitals, we can overcome concerns about clinical standards, without removing services. For instance, why is it not possible for the Brecon War Memorial Hospital to have a dermatology treatment and diagnosis centre? There is nothing to prevent that from happening—no clinical standards exist to say that that cannot happen. The same could be said of many community hospitals throughout Wales.

Gellid darparu nifer o driniaethau a ddarperir ar hyn o bryd mewn ysbytai cyffredinol dosbarth mewn lleoliadau cymunedol. Rhaid inni fod yn ddewr a meddwl yn greadigol. Drwy weithio mewn rhwydweithiau clinigol, a thrwy sefydlu protocolau y cytunir arnynt rhwng staff mewn lleoliadau cymunedol a’r rhai mewn ysbytai cyffredinol dosbarth, gallwn oroesi pryderon am safonau clinigol, heb gael gwared ar wasanaethau. Er enghraifft, pam nad yw’n bosibl i Ysbyty Coffa Brycheiniog gael canolfan trin a chanfod dermatoleg? Nid oes dim i atal hynny rhag digwydd—nid oes safonau clinigol yn bodoli i ddweud na all hynny ddigwydd. Gellir dweud yr un peth am nifer o ysbytai cymunedol ledled Cymru.

I want the Minister to consider these points. I know that she is committed to developing a new strategy for community hospitals and I understand that that work is underway, led by Jan Williams, and will form part of the Wanless review. I trust that Derek Wanless and his team will take time to visit community hospitals throughout Wales so that they can be assured of the quality service that they deliver, and share in this vision of community hospitals delivering more, which would save the NHS money and provide patients with a better service.

Yr wyf am i’r Gweinidog ystyried y pwyntiau hyn. Gwn ei bod yn ymrwymedig i ddatblygu strategaeth newydd ar gyfer ysbytai cymunedol a deallaf fod y gwaith hwnnw ar waith bellach, o dan arweiniad Jan Williams, a bydd yn ffurfio rhan o adolygiad Wanless. Hyderaf y bydd Derek Wanless a’i dîm yn cymryd amser i ymweld ag ysbytai cymunedol ledled Cymru fel y gallant gael sicrwydd eu bod yn darparu gwasanaeth o ansawdd, a rhannu yn y weledigaeth hon o ysbytai cymunedol yn cyflawni mwy, a fyddai’n arbed arian i’r GIG ac yn darparu gwell gwasanaeth i gleifion.

David Lloyd spoken in English p. 84

David Lloyd siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 84

I commend Kirsty Williams on her choice of topic. Community hospitals are fundamental. That case has been made strongly, therefore I will not reiterate the point. We should all consider community hospitals as an integral building block of primary and intermediate care in the future.

Canmolaf Kirsty Williams ar ei dewis o bwnc. Mae ysbytai cymunedol yn hanfodol. Dadleuwyd yr achos hwnnw yn gryf, felly nid ailadroddaf y pwynt. Dylem oll ystyried ysbytai cymunedol fel bloc adeiladu hanfodol o ran gofal sylfaenol a chanolradd yn y dyfodol.

I have a question for the Minister relating to an announcement at around budget time in the Assembly on new hospital builds in Wales, in which Tenby community hospital was mentioned. When will the new community hospital in Tenby, with its previously guaranteed minimum of 12 beds, be built?

Mae gennyf gwestiwn i’r Gweinidog yn gysylltiedig â chyhoeddiad tuag amser y gyllideb yn y Cynulliad ar adeiladu ysbytai newydd yng Nghymru, pan grybwyllwyd ysbyty cymunedol Dinbych y Pysgod. Pryd y caiff yr ysbyty cymunedol newydd yn Ninbych y Pysgod, y gwarantwyd isafswm o 12 o welyau cyn hyn, ei adeiladu?

Nick Bourne spoken in English p. 84

Nick Bourne siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 84

I endorse that last comment. We need news on the Tenby community hospital. I am grateful to Kirsty for allowing me a minute in which to speak. The people of Brecon, the doctors, surgeons and the hospital’s league of friends are rightly proud of the community hospitals, which are nowhere stronger than in Brecon. However, they are strong throughout Powys. They provide an excellent service to their communities. Therefore, it is often frustrating for doctors, nurses and residents in these communities when services at these hospitals, which have been provided to great effect and without complaints, are cut to meet new national guidelines.

Cymeradwyaf y sylw olaf hwnnw. Mae angen newyddion arnom am ysbyty cymunedol Dinbych y Pysgod. Yr wyf yn ddiolchgar i Kirsty am roi munud imi i siarad. Mae pobl Aberhonddu, y meddygon, y llawfeddygon, cymdeithas cyfeillion yr ysbyty yn falch, a hynny’n briodol, o’r ysbytai cymunedol, nad ydynt yn gryfach yn unrhyw le nag yn Aberhonddu. Fodd bynnag, maent yn gryf ledled Powys. Maent yn darparu gwasanaeth ardderchog i’w cymunedau. Felly, mae’n aml yn rhwystredig i feddygon, nyrsys a thrigolion yn y cymunedau hyn pan fydd gwasanaethau yn yr ysbytai hyn, sydd wedi’u darparu yn effeithiol a heb gwynion, yn cael eu cwtogi er mwyn bodloni canllawiau cenedlaethol newydd.

I will not speak against guidelines—we need them, but they must not be set solely with the aim of providing services in an urban setting. That is why the Minister—and I have urged her to do this before—should undertake a review of rural health needs so that we can take account of the different needs that exist in parts of Wales, and nowhere more so than in Powys, where there are poor communications and deprivation. Those factors are not properly taken into account at present. A genuine rural healthcare policy needs to be developed that recognises the differences involved in providing rural healthcare and the potential available in our community hospitals. Imagination, effort and resources need to be deployed to ensure that community hospitals can continue to deliver services that are in great danger of being salami-sliced away, which is what has happened with some maternity provision in Brecon, where cardiac services are now under threat. We must meet the high standards that we all want, but we need flexibility and we need to provide and enhance services.

Ni siaradaf yn erbyn canllawiau—mae eu hangen arnom, ond ni ddylid eu pennu â’r nod o ddarparu gwasanaethau mewn lleoliad trefol yn unig. Dyna pam y dylai’r Gweinidog—ac yr wyf wedi ei hannog i wneud hyn eisoes—gynnal adolygiad o anghenion iechyd gwledig fel y gallwn ystyried y gwahanol anghenion sy’n bodoli mewn rhannau o Gymru, a Phowys yn arbennig, lle mae cysylltiadau gwael ac amddifadedd. Ni roddir ystyriaeth briodol i’r ffactorau hynny ar hyn o bryd. Mae angen datblygu polisi gofal iechyd gwledig dilys sy’n cydnabod y gwahaniaethau wrth ddarparu gofal iechyd gwledig a’r potensial sydd ar gael yn ein hysbytai cymunedol. Mae angen dychymyg, ymdrech ac adnoddau er mwyn sicrhau y gall ysbytai cymunedol barhau i ddarparu gwasanaethau y mae perygl mawr y byddant yn diflannu’n raddol, sef yr hyn sydd wedi digwydd mewn rhai gwasanaethau mamolaeth yn Aberhonddu, lle mae gwasanaethau’r galon o dan fygythiad bellach. Rhaid inni gwrdd â’r safonau uchel yr ydym oll yn eu dymuno, ond mae angen hyblygrwydd arnom ac mae angen inni ddarparu ac ehangu gwasanaethau.

Jane Hutt The Minister for Health and Social Services spoken in English p. 85

Jane Hutt Y Gweinidog dros Iechyd a Gwasanaethau Cymdeithasol siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 85

We have debated the role of community hospitals on many occasions in the Assembly. They have always played an important role in providing care in the heart of our communities in Wales and supporting our larger acute hospitals. They have provided a wide range of services, including minor casualty out-patient clinics, simple diagnostic and testing services, rehabilitation and post-acute care and they are accessible to our communities. ‘Improving Health in Wales’ supported the findings of the report ‘Access and Excellence: Review of Acute Health Services in Wales’. That report stated that every area in Wales should develop a network of hospital services in which community hospitals would provide support to district general hospitals and primary and community healthcare services. That will be facilitated, as you said Kirsty, by the use of clinical networks, which are now being developed with regard to cardiac services, mental health services and cancer services, and new technologies such as the telemedicine links that I recently witnessed in action at Ysbyty Gwynedd. In terms of reducing waiting times, over 600 patients received dermatology consultations through telemedicine. Ysbyty Gwynedd is linked up to the community hospitals. We do not often hear that kind of news in the headlines. There are also the links with minor injuries services, which are nurse-led, at hospitals in Powys and Shrewsbury. That is a key way forward.

Yr ydym wedi cynnal dadl ynglŷn â rôl ysbytai cymunedol ar sawl achlysur yn y Cynulliad. Maent bob amser wedi chwarae rôl bwysig wrth ddarparu gofal yng nghalon ein cymunedau yng Nghymru a chynorthwyo ein hysbytai aciwt mwy. Maent wedi darparu ystod eang o wasanaethau, yn cynnwys clinigau mân ddamweiniau i gleifion allanol, gwasanaethau diagnosis a phrofion syml, gofal adsefydlu ac ôl-aciwt ac maent yn hygyrch i’n cymunedau. Ategodd ‘Gwella Iechyd yng Nghymru’ ganfyddiadau’r adroddiad ‘Hygyrchedd a Rhagoriaeth: Adolygiad o Wasanaethau Iechyd Aciwt yng Nghymru’. Nododd yr adroddiad hwnnw y dylai pob maes yng Nghymru ddatblygu rhwydwaith o wasanaethau ysbyty lle y byddai ysbytai cymunedol yn darparu cymorth i ysbytai ardal cyffredinol a gwasanaethau gofal iechyd sylfaenol a chymunedol. Hwylusir hynny, fel y dywedasoch Kirsty, gan y defnydd o rwydweithiau clinigol, sy’n cael eu datblygu yn awr o ran gwasanaethau’r galon, gwasanaethau iechyd meddwl a gwasanaethau canser, a thechnoleg newydd megis y cysylltiadau telefeddygaeth y cefais brofiad ohono yn Ysbyty Gwynedd yn ddiweddar. O ran lleihau amseroedd aros, derbyniodd dros 600 o gleifion ymgynghoriadau dermatoleg drwy delefeddygaeth. Mae ysbyty Gwynedd yn gysylltiedig â’r ysbytai cymunedol. Nid ydym yn clywed y math hwnnw o newyddion yn y penawdau yn aml. Yn ogystal, mae cysylltiadau â gwasanaethau mân anafiadau, a arweinir gan nyrsys, mewn ysbytai ym Mhowys ac Amwythig. Mae hynny’n ffordd allweddol ymlaen.

We are currently developing some of our existing community hospital sites. For example, the extension at Maesteg Community Hospital will bring in some of the clinic provision in the wider Maesteg area. That will enable the hospital to provide a wider range of services. The steady increase in service standards and quality of care will determine what is and is not possible in a community setting.

Ar hyn o bryd yr ydym yn datblygu rhai o’n safleoedd ysbytai cymunedol presennol. Er enghraifft, bydd yr estyniad yn Ysbyty Cymunedol Maesteg yn cyflwyno rhywfaint o’r ddarpariaeth glinigol yn ardal ehangach Maesteg. Bydd hynny’n galluogi’r ysbyty i ddarparu ystod ehangach o wasanaethau. Bydd y cynnydd cyson mewn safonau gwasanaethau ac ansawdd gofal yn penderfynu yr hyn sy’n bosibl a’r hyn nad yw’n bosibl mewn lleoliad cymunedol.

It is important, Kirsty, that you addressed so clearly the issues of clinical governance as a constituency AM who has been dealing with them. The public meeting that Kirsty attended last week was open and robust, as discussions in Powys have often been. At that meeting, the chief executive designate of the Powys local health board gave a commitment to general practitioners in Brecon that changes in how cardiology services are delivered in Brecon hospital would not be implemented until he had had further opportunities to discuss those services with the new acting medical director, Gillian Todd. An important commitment was also made as regards innovation. If, as a result of those discussions, all parties agree on a way forward for providing cardiology services, the new local health board for Powys would support its implementation. That commitment holds even if the service is unusual or unique, provided that it is safe and sustainable and therefore can be implemented with probity. We are prepared to be open-minded and to test out the remit of clinical governance and networks through our cardiac services. At that meeting, a commitment was also made with Brecon GPs to establish a multi-disciplinary working group to advise the local health board. This is about ensuring innovation and change through partnership, consultation, and by addressing the issues, while putting clinical governance and partnership at the forefront.

Mae’n bwysig, Kirsty, eich bod wedi ymdrin mor glir â’r materion rheolaeth glinigol fel AC etholaethol a fu’n ymdrin â hwy. Yr oedd y cyfarfod cyhoeddus a fynychwyd gan Kirsty yr wythnos diwethaf yn agored ac yn gadarn, fel y bu trafodaethau ym Mhowys ar sawl achlysur. Yn y cyfarfod hwnnw, rhoddodd darpar brif weithredwr bwrdd iechyd lleol Powys ymrwymiad i feddygon teulu yn Aberhonddu na fyddai newidiadau o ran sut y caiff gwasanaethau cardioleg eu darparu yn ysbyty Aberhonddu yn cael eu rhoi ar waith hyd nes iddo gael cyfleoedd pellach i drafod y gwasanaethau hynny â’r gyfarwyddwraig feddygol dros dro newydd, Gillian Todd. Yn ogystal, gwnaethpwyd ymrwymiad pwysig o ran arloesedd. Os, o ganlyniad i’r trafodaethau hynny, y bydd pob parti yn cytuno ar ffordd ymlaen ar gyfer darparu gwasanaethau cardioleg, byddai’r bwrdd iechyd lleol newydd ar gyfer Powys yn cefnogi ei roi ar waith. Mae’r ymrwymiad hwnnw yn aros hyd yn oed os yw’r gwasanaeth yn anarferol neu’n unigryw, cyhyd â’i fod yn ddiogel ac yn gynaliadwy a bod modd ei roi ar waith yn gywir. Yr ydym yn barod i fod yn feddwl agored ac i brofi cylch gwaith rheolaeth glinigol a rhwydweithiau drwy ein gwasanaethau cardiaidd. Yn ogystal, yn y cyfarfod hwnnw, gwnaethpwyd ymrwymiad â meddygon teulu Aberhonddu i sefydlu gweithgor amlddisgyblaethol i gynghori’r bwrdd iechyd lleol. Mae hyn yn ymwneud â sicrhau arloesedd a newid drwy bartneriaeth, ymgynghori a thrwy fynd i’r afael â’r problemau, tra’n rhoi blaenoriaeth i reolaeth glinigol a phartneriaeth.

We recently published ‘A Question of Balance’, which concluded that there is growing acceptance of the importance of understanding and changing the patient pathway so that it addresses patients’ needs. A proportion of patients who receive treatment in acute hospitals could be treated more appropriately in primary or community care settings. That report steers us towards considering how effectively we are using our community hospitals and whether we are unlocking their full potential, as Kirsty said. She referred to the report by Brian Edwards, which contains key messages on community hospitals.

Yn ddiweddar cyhoeddasom ‘Cadw Cydbwysedd’, a ddaeth i’r casgliad bod pwysigrwydd dealltwriaeth a newid llwybr cleifion fel ei fod yn mynd i’r afael ag anghenion cleifion yn cael ei dderbyn yn gyffredinol. Gellid trin cyfran y cleifion sy’n derbyn triniaeth mewn ysbytai aciwt yn fwy priodol mewn lleoliadau gofal sylfaenol neu ofal cymunedol. Mae’r adroddiad hwnnw yn ein hannog i ystyried pa mor effeithiol y defnyddir ein hysbytai cymunedol a pha un a ydym yn eu defnyddio i’w llawn botensial, fel y dywedodd Kirsty. Cyfeiriodd at yr adroddiad gan Brian Edwards, a oedd yn cynnwys negeseuon allweddol ar ysbytai cymunedol.

Kirsty Williams a Brian Hancock a gododd—

Kirsty Williams and Brian Hancock rose—

Jane Hutt spoken in English p. 87

Jane Hutt siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 87

I will give way to Brian Hancock.

Ildiaf i Brian Hancock.

Brian Hancock spoken in English p. 87

Brian Hancock siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 87

You raised a few points which I wanted to comment on. There is no hospital in my constituency. There was a plan to build one, but it is now thick with cobwebs and forgotten. My constituents must travel to the Royal Gwent Hospital or to Caerphilly Miners Hospital. Replacement is planned for the latter, but we have not heard anything about that. We have heard about the problems with bedblocking and of patients having to wait three-and-a-half hours on trolleys. Surely, community hospitals would help remedy that situation. There should be more of them.

Codasoch ambell bwynt yr hoffwn wneud sylwadau arnynt. Nid oes ysbyty yn fy etholaeth i. Yr oedd cynllun i adeiladu un, ond mae’n hen a llychlyd bellach ac mae pawb wedi anghofio amdano. Rhaid i’m hetholwyr deithio i Ysbyty Brenhinol Gwent neu Ysbyty Glowyr Caerffili. Bwriedir adeiladu ysbyty newydd i gymryd lle yr olaf, ond nid ydym wedi clywed unrhyw beth am hynny. Yr ydym wedi clywed am y problemau â blocio gwelyau a chleifion sy’n gorfod aros tair awr a hanner ar drolïau. Yn sicr, byddai ysbytai cymunedol yn helpu i unioni’r sefyllfa honno. Dylai fod mwy ohonynt.

Jane Hutt spoken in English p. 87

Jane Hutt siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 87

The investment that we have made in Caerphilly Miners Hospital has resulted in orthopaedic surgery being undertaken there. I recently visited the extended and modernised services in that hospital—and you ought to do so as well, Brian, if you have not already done so—which are enabling more appropriate use of Caerphilly Miners Hospital and links with the Royal Gwent Hospital. The announcement of a new community hospital in Blaenau Gwent will also significantly assist constituents in the north Gwent region.

Mae’r buddsoddiad yr ydym wedi ei wneud yn Ysbyty Glowyr Caerffili wedi arwain at gynnal llawdriniaeth orthopedig yno. Yn ddiweddar, ymwelais â’r gwasanaethau sydd wedi’u hehangu a’u moderneiddio yn yr ysbyty hwnnw—a dylech chithau wneud hynny hefyd, Brian, os nad ydych wedi gwneud hynny’n barod—sy’n galluogi defnydd mwy priodol o Ysbyty Glowyr Caerffili a chysylltiadau ag Ysbyty Brenhinol Gwent. Yn ogystal, bydd y cyhoeddiad y caiff ysbyty cymunedol newydd ei hadeiladu ym Mlaenau Gwent yn cynorthwyo etholwyr yn rhanbarth gogledd Gwent yn sylweddol.

It is important to take on board the issues raised by Brian Edwards in his report in relation to the situation in Gwent because community hospitals in that area are not being used to their full capacity.

Mae’n bwysig ystyried y materion a godwyd gan Brian Edwards yn ei adroddiad mewn cysylltiad â’r sefyllfa yng Ngwent oherwydd ni ddefnyddir ysbytai cymunedol yn yr ardal honno i’r eithaf.

Kirsty Williams spoken in English p. 88

Kirsty Williams siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 88

Given the high priority that you have given to tackling waiting times, is it not scandalous that operating lists at Brecon War Memorial Hospital remain empty, and that a theatre is lying dormant when it could be in use? Although we understand that complex surgery cannot be carried out there, some operations could be undertaken there. It is scandalous that management has not sought to ensure that those operating lists are full.

O ystyried y flaenoriaeth uchel yr ydych wedi ei rhoi i fynd i’r afael ag amseroedd aros, onid yw’n warthus bod y rhestrau llawdriniaeth yn Ysbyty Coffa Brycheiniog yn parhau’n wag, a bod theatr segur yno y gellir ei defnyddio? Er y deallwn na ellir cynnal llawdriniaeth gymhleth yno, gellir cynnal rhai llawdriniaethau yno. Mae’n warthus nad yw’r rheolwyr wedi ceisio sicrhau bod y rhestrau llawdriniaeth hynny’n llawn.

Jane Hutt spoken in English p. 88

Jane Hutt siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 88

The fact that the chief executive designate of the Powys local health board received a clap and a cheer from people who attended that public meeting shows that there is confidence in the new arrangements, and that the Powys local health board, which will be responsible for commissioning and delivering services, will ensure that the corner is turned in terms of maximising the use of hospitals such as Brecon. It is also good that people from the Valley communities are using Brecon hospital as opposed to district general hospitals. In terms of audiology, much work is being carried out at Brecon and at other community hospitals on the NHS digital hearing aids. I have recently visited that hospital and others throughout Wales and seen the new, modernised audiology units.

Mae’r ffaith i ddarpar brif weithredwr bwrdd iechyd lleol Powys gael cymeradwyaeth groch gan bobl a fynychodd y cyfarfod cyhoeddus hwnnw yn dangos bod hyder yn y trefniadau newydd, ac y bydd bwrdd iechyd lleol Powys, a fydd yn gyfrifol am gomisiynu a darparu gwasanaethau, yn sicrhau newid sylweddol o ran gwneud y defnydd mwyaf o ysbytai megis Aberhonddu. Yn ogystal, mae’n dda bod pobl o gymunedau’r Cymoedd yn defnyddio ysbyty Aberhonddu yn lle ysbytai cyffredinol dosbarth. O ran clywedeg, gwneir llawer o waith yn Aberhonddu ac mewn ysbytai cymunedol eraill ar gymhorthion clywed digidol y GIG. Yn ddiweddar, ymwelais â’r ysbyty hwnnw ac ysbytai eraill ledled Cymru ac yr wyf wedi gweld yr unedau clywedeg newydd sydd wedi’u moderneiddio.

That brings us on to our review. The Welsh Assembly Government has demonstrated its commitment to community hospitals through substantial investment: up to £14 million has been invested in extensions, developments, and new equipment over the last three years, through our capital renewal programme. However, investment must be accompanied by reform, and Derek Wanless’s review is important to this in terms of health and social care. We now also have our five-year service and financial frameworks, whereby every part of the health community in Wales will have to sign up to how they will develop their hospital and service infrastructure with the increasing resources that they will receive year-on-year. That will give us a coherent view of the development needs of the NHS. Local health boards, local authorities and their partners will assess local needs and match service provision to them. There are great steps forward in terms of how local community capacity and interface is being developed.

Daw hynny â ni at ein hadolygiad. Mae Llywodraeth Cynulliad Cymru wedi dangos ei hymrwymiad i ysbytai cymunedol drwy fuddsoddiad sylweddol: buddsoddwyd hyd at £14 miliwn mewn estyniadau, datblygiadau, a chyfarpar newydd dros y tair blynedd diwethaf, drwy ein rhaglen adnewyddu cyfalaf. Fodd bynnag, rhaid i fuddsoddiad ddigwydd ochr yn ochr â diwygio, ac mae adolygiad Derek Wanless yn bwysig i hyn o ran iechyd a gofal cymdeithasol. Yn ogystal, mae gennym ein fframweithiau gwasanaeth ac ariannol pum mlynedd bellach lle bydd yn rhaid i bob rhan o’r gymuned iechyd yng Nghymru ymrwymo i sut y byddant yn datblygu eu seilwaith ysbyty a gwasanaeth gyda’r adnoddau cynyddol y byddant yn eu derbyn o flwyddyn i flwyddyn. Bydd hynny’n rhoi darlun cydlynol inni o anghenion datblygiad y GIG. Bydd byrddau iechyd lleol, awdurdodau lleol a’u partneriaid yn asesu anghenion lleol ac yn paru darpariaeth y gwasanaeth â hwy. Gwnaed camau mawr ymlaen o ran sut y caiff capasiti a rhyngwyneb cymunedau lleol eu datblygu.

We will be bold and we will tap into the potential. The budget announcements a few weeks ago signalled the first step in purchasing the land for the hospital in Tenby. That is a great achievement for the Welsh Assembly Government. The money levered in for community hospital development across Wales, for example in Porthmadog, Rhondda, and Clydach, is a result of the Welsh Assembly Government’s commitment to being bold and to tapping into the potential of community hospitals.

Byddwn yn ddewr a defnyddiwn y potensial. Yr oedd y cyhoeddiadau cyllideb rai wythnosau yn ôl yn arwydd o’r cam cyntaf tuag at brynu’r tir ar gyfer yr ysbyty yn Ninbych y Pysgod. Mae hynny’n gyflawniad mawr i Lywodraeth Cynulliad Cymru. Mae’r arian a gyflwynwyd ar gyfer datblygu ysbytai cymunedol ledled Cymru, er enghraifft ym Mhorthmadog, y Rhondda, a Chlydach, yn deillio o ymrwymiad Llywodraeth Cynulliad Cymru i fod yn ddewr a defnyddio potensial ysbytai cymunedol.

John Marek The Deputy Presiding Officer spoken in English p. 89

John Marek Y Dirprwy Lywydd siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 89

That brings today’s proceedings to a close.

Daw hynny â chyfarfod heddiw i ben.

Daeth y cyfarfod i ben am 5.06 p.m.

The session ended at 5.06 p.m.