English

Cynulliad Cenedlaethol CymruNational Assembly for Wales · Cyfarfod llawnPlenary sitting

Dydd Mawrth 1 Ebrill 2003

Tuesday 1 April 2003

DechreuoddMet 14:00 · Daeth i benRose 17:23

Gweld y Cofnod (PDF)View the Record (PDF)

Heb ei wirio â llaw etoNot yet checked by hand

CynnwysContents

  1. 4Cwestiynau i’r Prif WeinidogQuestions to the First Minister
    1. 4Y Sefyllfa yn IracThe Situation in Iraq
    2. 6Adolygu Targedau Dogfennau StrategolRevision of Targets in Strategic Documents
    3. 10Recriwtio a Chadw AthrawonTeacher Recruitment and Retention
    4. 13Y GyllidebThe Budget
    5. 15Mannau Chwarae (Ynys Môn)Play Areas (Anglesey)
    6. 17Ymddygiad Cynghorwyr Sir CaerdyddThe Conduct of Cardiff County Councillors
    7. 20Rhestrau Aros ac Amseroedd ArosWaiting Lists and Waiting Times
    8. 22Safleoedd Cyn-Lofeydd (Adfywio Economaidd)Former Colliery Sites (Economic Regeneration)
    9. 24Gwasanaethau Brys yng NghymruEmergency Services in Wales
    10. 25Sgîl-effeithiau Argyfwng IracSide Effects of the Iraq Crisis
  2. 26Datganiad BusnesBusiness Statement
  3. 28Pwynt o DrefnPoint of Order
  4. 30Datganiad ar Sefydlu Tribiwnlys Anabledd ac Anghenion Addysgol Arbennig ar gyfer CymruStatement on the Establishment of a Disability and Special Educational Needs Tribunal for Wales
  5. 37Pwyntiau o DrefnPoints of Order
  6. 42Cynnig Cyfansawdd: Cymeradwyo GorchmynionComposite Motion: Approval of Orders 1 bleidlais1 vote
  7. 44Cymeradwyo Rheoliadau Dyfroedd Arwyneb (Pysgod) (Dosbarthu) (Diwygio) 2003Approval of the Surface Waters (Fishlife) (Classification) (Amendment) Regulations 2003 1 bleidlais1 vote
  8. 45Cymeradwyo Newid Dros Dro i Reol Sefydlog Rhif 22Approval of a Temporary Change to Standing Order No. 22 1 bleidlais1 vote
  9. 46Cymeradwyo’r Gorchymyn Siroedd wedi’u Cadw (Newid Ffiniau) (Cymru) 2003Approval of the Preserved Counties (Amendment to Boundaries) (Wales) Order 2003 2 o bleidleisiau2 votes
  10. 51Cymeradwyo Rheoliadau’r Comisiwn Gwella Iechyd (Swyddogaethau) 2003Approval of the Commission for Health Improvement (Functions) Regulations 2003 1 bleidlais1 vote
  11. 52Cymeradwyo Cod Cyfarwyddyd i Awdurdodau Lleol ar Ddyrannu Llety a DigartrefeddApproval of the Code of Guidance for Local Authorities on Allocation of Accommodation and Homelessness 4 o bleidleisiau4 votes
  12. 62Strategaeth Ddigartrefedd GenedlaetholNational Homelessness Strategy 6 o bleidleisiau6 votes
  13. 78Cynnig TrefniadolProcedural Motion 1 bleidlais1 vote
  14. 79Datblygu CynaliadwySustainable Development 3 o bleidleisiau3 votes
  15. 89Adroddiad y Pwyllgor Diwylliant ar Gymryd Rhan mewn ChwaraeonThe Culture Committee’s Report on Participation in Sport 1 bleidlais1 vote

PleidleisiauVotes

PleidlaisVoteO blaidForYmatalAbstainYn erbynAgainstCanlyniadResult
Cynnig Cyfansawdd: Cymeradwyo GorchmynionComposite Motion: Approval of Orders
Cynnig cyfansawdd NDM1446Composite motion NDM14464600DerbyniwydAdopted
Cymeradwyo Rheoliadau Dyfroedd Arwyneb (Pysgod) (Dosbarthu) (Diwygio) 2003Approval of the Surface Waters (Fishlife) (Classification) (Amendment) Regulations 2003
Cynnig NDM1447Motion NDM14474500DerbyniwydAdopted
Cymeradwyo Newid Dros Dro i Reol Sefydlog Rhif 22Approval of a Temporary Change to Standing Order No. 22
Cynnig NDM1448Motion NDM14484200DerbyniwydAdopted
Cymeradwyo’r Gorchymyn Siroedd wedi’u Cadw (Newid Ffiniau) (Cymru) 2003Approval of the Preserved Counties (Amendment to Boundaries) (Wales) Order 2003
Cynnig NDM1449Motion NDM14493185DerbyniwydAdopted
Cynnig NDM1450Motion NDM14503083DerbyniwydAdopted
Cymeradwyo Rheoliadau’r Comisiwn Gwella Iechyd (Swyddogaethau) 2003Approval of the Commission for Health Improvement (Functions) Regulations 2003
Cynnig NDM1451Motion NDM14514600DerbyniwydAdopted
Cymeradwyo Cod Cyfarwyddyd i Awdurdodau Lleol ar Ddyrannu Llety a DigartrefeddApproval of the Code of Guidance for Local Authorities on Allocation of Accommodation and Homelessness
Gwelliant 1Amendment 13027GwrthodwydRejected
Gwelliant 2Amendment 23031GwrthodwydRejected
Cynnig NDM1453Motion NDM14533700DerbyniwydAdopted
Cynnig NDM1454Motion NDM14543900DerbyniwydAdopted
Strategaeth Ddigartrefedd GenedlaetholNational Homelessness Strategy
Gwelliant 1Amendment 13035GwrthodwydRejected
Gwelliant 2Amendment 211025GwrthodwydRejected
Gwelliant 3Amendment 311028GwrthodwydRejected
Gwelliant 4Amendment 42929GwrthodwydRejected
Gwelliant 5Amendment 52037GwrthodwydRejected
Cynnig NDM1455Motion NDM14554000DerbyniwydAdopted
Cynnig TrefniadolProcedural Motion
Cynnig trefniadolProcedural motion3800DerbyniwydAdopted
Datblygu CynaliadwySustainable Development
Gwelliant 1Amendment 19026GwrthodwydRejected
Gwelliant 3Amendment 39025GwrthodwydRejected
Cynnig NDM1445Motion NDM14452572DerbyniwydAdopted
Adroddiad y Pwyllgor Diwylliant ar Gymryd Rhan mewn ChwaraeonThe Culture Committee’s Report on Participation in Sport
Cynnig NDM1456Motion NDM14562800DerbyniwydAdopted

TrafodionProceedings

Cyfarfu’r Cynulliad am 2 p.m. gyda’r Llywydd yn y Gadair.

The Assembly met at 2 p.m. with the Presiding Officer in the Chair.

Cwestiynau i’r Prif Weinidog

Questions to the First Minister

Y Sefyllfa yn Irac

The Situation in Iraq

Q1 John Griffiths spoken in English p. 4

C1 John Griffiths siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 4

Will the First Minister make a statement on the current position regarding the impact of the situation in Iraq on the Assembly’s delivery of its policies? (OAQ23799)

A wnaiff y Prif Weinidog ddatganiad am y sefyllfa bresennol mewn perthynas â’r effaith a gaiff yr hyn sy’n digwydd yn Irac o safbwynt cyflawni polisïau’r Cynulliad? (OAQ23799)

Rhodri Morgan The First Minister spoken in English p. 4

Rhodri Morgan Y Prif Weinidog siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 4

There is no evidence at present to suggest that the situation in Iraq has had any perceptible impact on the objectives set out in the Assembly’s operational plan. Similarly, there has been no discernible impact on the public services in Wales that underpin these objectives. There are, of course, reservists from the national health service giving outstanding service with the troops in the Gulf. The earliest possible impact that we might see in Wales would be rotaplanes arriving at Cardiff international airport carrying injured service personnel to Welsh hospitals; that has not yet occurred.

Nid oes unrhyw dystiolaeth ar hyn o bryd sy’n awgrymu i’r sefyllfa yn Irac gael unrhyw effaith ganfyddadwy ar yr amcanion a nodir yng nghynllun gweithredu’r Cynulliad. Yn yr un modd, ni fu effaith ddirnadwy ar y gwasanaethau cyhoeddus yng Nghymru sy’n ategu’r amcanion hyn. Wrth gwrs, mae milwyr wrth gefn o’r gwasanaeth iechyd gwladol sy’n rhoi gwasanaeth rhagorol gyda’r milwyr yn y Gwlff. Yr effaith gyntaf bosibl y gallem ei gweld yng Nghymru fyddai awyrennau ar rota yn cyrraedd maes awyr rhyngwladol Caerdydd gan gludo milwyr a anafwyd i ysbytai yng Nghymru; ni ddigwyddodd hynny eto.

John Griffiths spoken in English p. 4

John Griffiths siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 4

The Assembly rightly stresses the importance of equality of opportunity and social inclusion. Addressing the challenges faced by ethnic minorities is an important part of that agenda. Unfortunately, the war in Iraq, and the situation with regard to asylum seekers, allows the prejudiced, the unprincipled and the opportunistic to attempt to exploit current circumstances for perceived political gain. Will you join me in condemning the decision by the British National Party to field candidates in the Assembly elections, and in deploring the inclusion in the Welsh Conservative Party’s manifesto of a policy of secure accommodation for asylum seekers, even though it is not—

Mae’r Cynulliad yn rhoi pwyslais priodol ar bwysigrwydd cyfle cyfartal a chynhwysiant cymdeithasol. Rhan bwysig o’r agenda honno yw ymdrin â’r heriau y mae lleiafrifoedd ethnig yn eu hwynebu. Gwaetha’r modd, mae’r rhyfel yn Irac, a’r sefyllfa o ran ceiswyr lloches, yn rhoi cyfle i rai rhagfarnllyd, diegwyddor a manteisgar geisio elwa ar yr amgylchiadau sydd ohoni er mwyn ennill yr hyn a ystyriant yn fantais wleidyddol. A wnewch ymuno â mi i gollfarnu penderfyniad y Blaid Genedlaethol Brydeinig i roi ymgeiswyr i sefyll yn etholiadau’r Cynulliad, ac i resynu at y ffaith bod polisi o lety cadw ar gyfer ceiswyr lloches wedi’i gynnwys ym maniffesto Plaid Geidwadol Cymru, er nad yw—

Dafydd Elis-Thomas The Presiding Officer spoken in English p. 4

Dafydd Elis-Thomas Y Llywydd siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 4

Order. I was not aware that the First Minister had any link with, or responsibility for, the policies of the BNP, or of the Welsh Conservative group.

Trefn. Ni wyddwn fod unrhyw gysylltiad rhwng y Prif Weinidog a pholisïau’r BNP, na grŵp Ceidwadwyr Cymru, na bod ganddo unrhyw gyfrifoldeb drostynt.

Rhodri Morgan The First Minister spoken in English p. 5

Rhodri Morgan Y Prif Weinidog siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 5

A meeting of the Inter-faith Council for Wales was held last Thursday, at which the four party leaders were present. There was agreement on the sentiments expressed with regard to ensuring that there is no spill-over into Wales as a result of the situation in the middle east. All party manifestos should be compatible with the declaration signed on 23 February, under the sponsorship of the Welsh Language Board, that we would not allow race or language to become an issue in the election—all parties should bear that in mind.

Cynhaliwyd cyfarfod o Gyngor Rhyng-grefyddol Cymru ddydd Iau diwethaf, lle’r oedd y pedwar arweinydd plaid yn bresennol. Yr oedd cytundeb ar y farn a fynegwyd o ran sicrhau na fydd sgîl-effaith ar Gymru o ganlyniad i’r sefyllfa yn y dwyrain canol. Dylai maniffestos yr holl bleidiau fod yn gyson â’r datganiad a arwyddwyd ar 23 Chwefror, dan nawdd Bwrdd yr Iaith Gymraeg, i’r perwyl na fyddem yn caniatáu i hil neu iaith fod yn bwnc yn yr etholiad—dylai’r holl bleidiau gofio hynny.

Cynog Dafis siaradwyd yn Gymraeg t. 5

Cynog Dafis spoken in Welsh p. 5

Mae aelodau o’r gymuned Islamaidd yng Nghymru yn bryderus y byddant, o bosibl, yn dioddef o ganlyniad i densiwn a gwrthdaro yn sgîl y gweithredu milwrol yn erbyn Irac. Maent hefyd yn teimlo’n hynod ddig, ar y cyfan, ynghylch y gweithredu milwrol hwnnw, sy’n ymosodiad ar wlad Islamaidd. Mae hynny’n cyd-fynd â barn Islamaidd ar draws y byd. Byddai’r gymuned Islamaidd yn gwerthfawrogi arweiniad gennych chi, fel Prif Weinidog. A wnewch chi ddatgan eich safbwynt ar y gweithredu milwrol yn Irac?

Members of the Islamic community in Wales are concerned that they may suffer as a result of tension and conflict arising from military action against Iraq. Generally speaking, they also feel extremely angry about this military action, which is an invasion of an Islamic country. That is in line with Islamic opinion across the world. The Islamic community would appreciate guidance from you, as First Minister. Will you say where you stand on the military action in Iraq?

Rhodri Morgan Y Prif Weinidog siaradwyd yn Gymraeg t. 5

Rhodri Morgan The First Minister spoken in Welsh p. 5

Dyna’r rheswm pam y sefydlwyd Cyngor Rhyng-grefyddol Cymru, a dyna pam y bu’n llwyddiant. Mae’n sicrhau nad yw’r tensiynau’n gwaethygu, yn yr un modd ag a welwyd yn y tri neu bedwar mis yn dilyn 11 Medi 2001. Mae’r cyfle i drafod y materion hyn rhwng y pleidiau a gynrychiolir yn y Cynulliad a chymunedau gwahanol grefyddau Cymru—fel y gwnaethpwyd ddydd Iau diwethaf—yn fanteisiol i bawb, gan ei fod yn dileu’r tensiwn. Dywedodd y rhan fwyaf o’r rhai a oedd yn bresennol yn y cyfarfod nad oes tystiolaeth, hyd yma, o gynnydd yn y math o ddigwyddiadau a welwyd yn y misoedd yn dilyn 11 Medi 2001.

That is why the Inter-faith Council for Wales was set up, and why it has been a success. It ensures that tensions do not increase, as was the case during the three or four months following 11 September 2001. The opportunity for the parties represented in the Assembly and different faith communities in Wales to discuss these matters—as we did last Thursday—benefits everyone, as it alleviates the tension. Most people present at the meeting said that there is no evidence, to date, of an increase in the kind of incidents seen in the months following 11 September 2001.

Glyn Davies spoken in English p. 5

Glyn Davies siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 5

We hold a variety of opinions with regard to the decision to go to war, and many still express their opposition to that decision. My concern with regard to the public expression of opposition to the policy adopted by the Prime Minister is its effect on the morale of our armed forces in Iraq and Kuwait. Will you give full public support, on behalf of the Assembly, to our armed forces, and wish them success and a safe return?

Mae gennym wahanol safbwyntiau ar y penderfyniad i fynd i ryfel, ac mae llawer yn dal i fynegi gwrthwynebiad i’r penderfyniad hwnnw. Yr hyn sy’n peri pryder i mi o ran mynegi gwrthwynebiad cyhoeddus i’r polisi a fabwysiadwyd gan y Prif Weinidog yw’r effaith a gaiff hynny ar forâl ein lluoedd arfog yn Irac a Kuwait. A wnewch roi cefnogaeth gyhoeddus lawn, ar ran y Cynulliad, i’n lluoedd arfog, a dymuno llwyddiant iddynt a dychweliad diogel?

Rhodri Morgan The First Minister spoken in English p. 6

Rhodri Morgan Y Prif Weinidog siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 6

I am sure that I speak on behalf of all the people of Wales in saying that Welsh troops in the Gulf, and any that may yet be sent there, have our full support. Their conduct so far, the training that they have received and the temperament that they have demonstrated mean that they are ideally suited to the tasks that they have been given. They have carried out those tasks superbly. I am sure that they will continue to do so and that they have the support of everyone in Wales.

Yr wyf yn siŵr fy mod yn siarad ar ran holl bobl Cymru wrth ddweud ein bod yn rhoi pob cefnogaeth i filwyr o Gymru sydd yn y Gwlff, ac unrhyw rai a anfonir yno yn y dyfodol. Mae eu hymddygiad hyd yma, yr hyfforddiant a gawsant a’r cymeriad a amlygasant yn golygu eu bod yn ddelfrydol ar gyfer y tasgau a roddwyd iddynt. Maent wedi cyflawni’r tasgau hynny’n rhagorol. Yr wyf yn sicr y byddant yn parhau i wneud hynny ac y bydd pawb yng Nghymru’n eu cefnogi.

Adolygu Targedau Dogfennau Strategol

Revision of Targets in Strategic Documents

C2 Rhodri Glyn Thomas siaradwyd yn Gymraeg t. 6

Q2 Rhodri Glyn Thomas spoken in Welsh p. 6

A wnaiff y Prif Weinidog ddatganiad am unrhyw gynlluniau i adolygu targedau mewn unrhyw ddogfennau strategol a gyhoeddwyd gan Lywodraeth Cynulliad Cymru? (OAQ23790)

Will the First Minister make a statement on any plans to revise targets in any strategic documents published by the Welsh Assembly Government? (OAQ23790)

Rhodri Morgan Y Prif Weinidog siaradwyd yn Gymraeg t. 6

Rhodri Morgan The First Minister spoken in Welsh p. 6

Mae ein cynlluniau yn cynnwys targedau ymestynnol sydd wedi eu gweithredu drwy amryw o strategaethau ar lawer o faterion. Er enghraifft, cyhoeddwyd bod cyfanswm o dros 2,000 o swyddi ychwanegol wedi eu creu yn ystod y pum mis diwethaf. Mae hynny’n cynnwys 250 o swyddi yn y gwasanaeth sifil a gyhoeddwyd ddoe, i’w lleoli yn hanner y ganolfan alw yn Noc Penfro. Yr wyf yn siŵr y bydd pob Aelod yn croesawu’r ffaith bod hynny wedi’i gyhoeddi ar ôl misoedd o drafodaethau, a bod cyfanswm o 2,000 o swyddi newydd wedi’u creu a 4,000 o swyddi wedi’u diogelu.

Our plans include challenging targets that have been carried forward through various strategies on many issues. For example, it has been announced that the total number of new jobs created during the last five months has crossed the 2,000 mark. That includes the 250 civil service jobs announced yesterday, to be located in half of the call centre in Pembroke Dock. I am sure that all Members will welcome the fact that that has been announced after months of discussions, and that a total of 2,000 new jobs have been created and 4,000 jobs have been safeguarded.

Rhodri Glyn Thomas siaradwyd yn Gymraeg t. 6

Rhodri Glyn Thomas spoken in Welsh p. 6

Yr wyf yn ddiolchgar i’r Prif Weinidog am gyfeirio at swyddi ac at ganolfannau galw. Pan ofynnais gwestiwn iddo ar 25 Chwefror, cyfeiriodd at Elev8 Solutions Cyf fel enghraifft o lwyddiant ei bolisïau ef a’i Lywodraeth yn Nyffryn Aman. A fyddai’n dymuno ailystyried y datganiad hwnnw y prynhawn yma?

I am grateful to the First Minister for referring to jobs and call centres. When I asked him a question on 25 February, he referred to Elev8 Solutions Ltd as an example of the success of his and his Government’s policies in the Amman Valley. Would he like to reconsider that statement this afternoon?

Rhodri Morgan Y Prif Weinidog siaradwyd yn Gymraeg t. 6

Rhodri Morgan The First Minister spoken in Welsh p. 6

Mae swyddi mewn rhai sectorau yn gallu cael eu creu yn gyflym ond hefyd yn gallu cael eu colli’n gyflym. Mae hynny’n wir am swyddi mewn canolfannau galw. Gwelwyd hynny yn achos First Mobile UK Cyf dair blynedd yn ôl; crëwyd a chollwyd 2,000 o swyddi yno. Gwelwyd hynny hefyd yn achos ITV Digital yn Noc Penfro. Mae swyddi o’r fath yn gallu cael eu creu yn gyflym ac yn gallu diflannu’n gyflym hefyd. Yr hyn sydd yn bwysig am y 2,000 o swyddi newydd—ac yr wyf yn siomedig nad oeddech yn fodlon croesawu’r cyhoeddiad a wnaethpwyd gan Andrew Smith, yr Ysgrifennydd Gwladol dros Waith a Phensyniau, ddoe, sydd o bwys i orllewin Cymru—yw’r amrwyiaeth o swyddi. Mae swyddi newydd yn cael eu creu yn y sector diwydiannol, mewn meddalwedd, mewn canolfannau galw, ac yn y sector cyhoeddus ledled Cymru. Mae’n drueni nad oeddech am ymateb i’r ffaith bod 250 o swyddi ychwanegol yn Noc Penfro wedi cael eu creu yn sgîl cyhoeddiad Andrew Smith ddoe.

Jobs in some sectors can be lost as quickly as they are created. That is true of jobs in call centres. We saw that in the case of First Mobile UK Ltd three years ago; 2,000 jobs were created and lost there. We also saw that in the case of ITV Digital in Pembroke Dock. Those kinds of jobs can be created quickly and can also disappear quickly. What is important about the 2,000 new jobs—and I am disappointed that you were not willing to welcome the announcement made yesterday by Andrew Smith, Secretary of State for Work and Pensions, which is important to west Wales—is the variety of jobs. New jobs are being created in the industrial sector, in software, in call centres, and in the public sector throughout Wales. It is a shame that you choose not to comment on the creation of an additional 250 jobs in Pembroke Dock following Andrew Smith’s announcement yesterday.

David Ian Jones spoken in English p. 7

David Ian Jones siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 7

In ‘Better Health, Better Wales’, the Assembly Government committed itself to establishing a network of expert patients by 2003. You will be aware that encouraging the self-management of conditions is an innovative approach to the challenges posed by long-term illness, and that the commitment was welcomed not only by patients’ groups but by the medical profession, and received cross-party support in the Assembly. Despite that, the network has not yet been fully implemented. In the dying days of this Assembly, can you give a commitment to the implementation of this much-needed network in Wales as soon as possible?

Yn ‘Gwell Iechyd, Gwell Cymru’, ymrwymodd Llywodraeth y Cynulliad i sefydlu rhwydwaith o gleifion arbenigol erbyn 2003. Gwyddoch fod annog hunanreolaeth ar anhwylderau’n ddull arloesol o wynebu’r heriau a geir oherwydd salwch hirdymor, a bod yr ymrwymiad hwnnw wedi’i groesawu gan grwpiau cleifion a hefyd gan y meddygon, a bod cefnogaeth drawsbleidiol iddo yn y Cynulliad hwn. Er hynny, nid yw’r rhwydwaith wedi’i roi ar waith yn llawn eto. Yn nyddiau olaf y Cynulliad hwn, a allwch ymrwymo i roi ar waith y rhwydwaith hwn y mae mawr angen amdano yng Nghymru cyn gynted ag y bo modd?

Rhodri Morgan The First Minister spoken in English p. 7

Rhodri Morgan Y Prif Weinidog siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 7

I think that you mean the dying days of this term of this Assembly, David, unless you have a hidden agenda. The principle behind the network is right. Many people now have illnesses that previously would have ended their lives quickly. However, now, if those illnesses are managed properly, using the patients’ skills, family support, consultant support—sometimes consultant support in the community—support from general practitioners and community nurses, patients can live 20 years or more. That is true of conditions such as diabetes and, often, cancer. Patients can play a major part in their own care, and that is an important development. I will write to you on the particular point that you raised about the network, as I am not aware of the issue.

Credaf mai dyddiau olaf y tymor hwn o’r Cynulliad hwn a olygwch, David, oni bai fod gennych agenda gudd. Mae’r egwyddor sy’n sail i’r rhwydwaith yn iawn. Mae llawer yn profi anhwylderau a fyddai, yn y gorffennol, wedi rhoi terfyn buan ar eu bywyd. Fodd bynnag, erbyn hyn, os rheolir yr anhwylderau hynny’n iawn, drwy ddefnyddio sgiliau’r cleifion, cymorth y teulu, cymorth gan ymgynghorydd—a hynny yn y gymuned weithiau—cymorth gan ymarferwyr cyffredinol a nyrsys cymunedol, gall cleifion fyw am 20 mlynedd neu fwy. Mae hynny’n wir am anhwylderau fel clefyd siwgwr ac, yn aml, canser. Gall cleifion chwarae rhan o bwys yn eu gofal eu hunain, ac mae hynny’n ddatblygiad pwysig. Ysgrifennaf atoch ynghylch y pwynt penodol yr ydych wedi’i godi am y rhwydwaith, gan nad wyf yn ymwybodol o’r mater hwnnw.

Tom Middlehurst spoken in English p. 8

Tom Middlehurst siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 8

Will you join me in congratulating the people of north-east Wales on their industry and energy, which has resulted in the lowest unemployment levels there in a generation? That industry and energy is building business confidence in north-east Wales and making a significant contribution to the Assembly’s strategic targets.

A wnewch ymuno â mi i longyfarch pobl y Gogledd-ddwyrain ar eu diwydrwydd a’u hegni, sydd wedi arwain at y lefelau isaf o ddiweithdra yno mewn cenhedlaeth? Mae’r diwydrwydd a’r egni hwnnw’n meithrin hyder mewn busnes yn y Gogledd-ddwyrain ac yn cyfrannu’n sylweddol at gyflawni targedau strategol y Cynulliad.

Rhodri Morgan The First Minister spoken in English p. 8

Rhodri Morgan Y Prif Weinidog siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 8

Flintshire is one of the industrial powerhouses of Great Britain, not just Wales. The Deeside industrial park is probably the most successful business park in Britain and the Airbus plant at Broughton is the largest manufacturing plant in Britain. It has the largest manufacturing plant investment, at over £500 million, of anywhere in Britain, and the largest number of apprentices in training on any site. The combination of those two, and many other industrial centres in Flintshire, mean that its continued ability to function as a powerhouse is of great importance to the future of the Welsh and British economy.

Sir y Fflint yw un o bwerdai diwydiannol Prydain Fawr, yn ogystal â Chymru. Mae’n debyg mai parc diwydiannol Glannau Dyfrdwy yw un o’r parciau busnes mwyaf llwyddiannus ym Mhrydain a safle Airbus ym Mrychdyn yw’r safle gweithgynhyrchu mwyaf ym Mhrydain. Yno y buddsoddwyd y swm mwyaf mewn unrhyw safle gweithgynhyrchu ym Mhrydain, sef mwy na £500 miliwn, ac yno y mae’r nifer fwyaf o brentisiaid dan hyfforddiant ar unrhyw safle. Mae’r cyfuniad o’r ddwy ganolfan ddiwydiannol hynny, ynghyd â llawer o rai eraill yn Sir y Fflint, yn golygu ei bod yn bwysig iawn iddi allu parhau i ysgogi economi Cymru a Phrydain yn y dyfodol.

Ieuan Wyn Jones Arweinydd yr Wrthblaid siaradwyd yn Gymraeg t. 8

Ieuan Wyn Jones The Leader of the Opposition spoken in Welsh p. 8

Prif Weinidog, gadewch inni, ar ddiwedd y Cynulliad hwn, edrych ar eich record ar gyflawni targedau yn ystod y pedair blynedd diwethaf. Yr ydych wedi dweud yn gyhoeddus eich bod am gael eich barnu ar eich record, felly gadewch inni edrych ar y record honno. Edrychwn ar eich targed am y gwasanaeth iechyd o safbwynt rhestrau aros: mae’r rheini wedi codi i’r entrychion tra y buoch wrthi’n ailstrwythuro’r gwasanaeth iechyd, gan wario £15 miliwn ar greu mwy o reolwyr, yn hytrach na mwy o nyrsus a meddygon. O ran yr economi, mae cyflogau yng Nghymru yn is nag ydynt yng ngweddill Prydain. Mae lefel cynnyrch mewnwladol crynswth y pen yn is o dan Lafur nag y bu cyn 1999. Yr ydych hefyd yn wynebu beirniadaeth lem am y ffordd y mae arian Amcan 1 wedi cael ei wario. A ydych mewn gwirionedd, Brif Weinidog, yn teimlo mai dyma’r math o record yr ydych am ei hamddiffyn?

First Minister, at the end of this Assembly, let us look at your record in achieving targets during the past four years. You have said publicly that you wish to be judged on your record, therefore let us look at that record. Consider your target for waiting lists in the health service: waiting lists have rocketed while you have been restructuring the health service, spending £15 million on creating more managers, rather than more nurses and doctors. On the economy, wages in Wales are lower than in the rest of Britain. Gross domestic product per capita is lower under Labour than it was before 1999. You are also facing fierce criticism on how Objective 1 money has been spent. First Minister, do you really feel that this is the kind of record that you wish to defend?

Rhodri Morgan Y Prif Weinidog siaradwyd yn Gymraeg t. 9

Rhodri Morgan The First Minister spoken in Welsh p. 9

Mae bob amser yn beryglus i gredu propaganda Plaid Cymru. Dylai arweinydd Plaid Cymru dalu llawer o sylw i hynny. Mae’r ffigurau yn dangos, er enghraifft, fod diweithdra erbyn hyn yn is yng Nghymru nag ydyw yn y Deyrnas Unedig. Anaml iawn y bydd hynny’n digwydd—ni ddigwyddodd ond teirgwaith yn y 75 mlynedd diwethaf. Yn ôl mesur yr International Labour Organisation, mae ein diweithdra ni yn 4.8 y cant ac y mae’n 5 y cant dros Brydain gyfan. Gallwn i gyd ymfalchïo yn hynny, os ydym yn aelodau o’r Llywodraeth neu o’r gwrthbleidiau. Mae pawb yn gallu ymfalchïo bod diweithdra yn is yng Nghymru nag ydyw ym Mhrydain Fawr. O ran y gwasanaeth iechyd gwladol, yr ydym yn parhau i fuddsoddi mwy nag erioed; yr ydym yn hyfforddi llawer mwy o feddygon yn awr, gyda chynnydd o 89 y cant yn nifer y myfyrwyr sy’n cael eu hyfforddi yn ein hysgolion a’n colegau meddygol. Mae’r un peth yn wir am nyrsus hefyd. Dyna’r unig ffordd i ehangu’r gallu i drin yn y GIG. Yr ydym yn gwneud y buddsoddiad angenrheidiol yn awr mewn hyfforddi, a byddwn yn gallu medi ffrwyth hynny ar ran cleifion Cymru yn y dyfodol agos.

It is always dangerous to believe Plaid Cymru propaganda. Plaid Cymru’s leader should pay far more attention to that. The figures show, for example, that unemployment is now lower in Wales than it is in the United Kingdom. That very rarely happens—it has only happened three times in the last 75 years. According to the International Labour Organisation’s figures, our unemployment rate is 4.8 per cent while it is 5 per cent in Britain as a whole. We can all take pride in that, whether we are members of the Government or of the opposition parties. Everyone can be proud that unemployment is lower in Wales than it is in the rest of Britain. On the national health service, we continue to invest at record levels; we are training many more doctors, with an 89 per cent increase in the number of students being trained in our medical schools and colleges. The same is also true of nurses. That is the only way to increase our capacity to offer treatment in the NHS. We are making the necessary investment now in training, and we will be able to reap the rewards for the patients of Wales in the near future.

Ieuan Wyn Jones spoken in English p. 9

Ieuan Wyn Jones siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 9

It is a bit rich to accuse me of propaganda when your reply was nothing but propaganda. The reality is that I presented you with three targets that you set and have missed. You have not denied that you have missed them; you referred to other targets, which were not in your manifesto. Let us look at the three targets again: will you say whether they were met? These are the kinds of issues on which the people of Wales will judge you on 1 May. On health, there was a specific target—not a promise, a target—that you would reduce waiting times for patients waiting to see a consultant. The number waiting has risen from 21,000 to 76,000—that is a missed target. You also said that wages in Wales would increase—that is a missed target, because wages in Wales are decreasing in relation to the rest of the United Kingdom. You said in the national economic development strategy that GDP per capita in Wales would increase and not decrease. These are three targets that you have missed. Yes or no?

Mae’n warthus eich bod yn fy nghyhuddo i o daenu propaganda a chithau wedi gwneud hynny a dim arall yn eich ateb. Y gwir yw fy mod wedi dangos ichi dri tharged yr ydych chi wedi’u gosod a’u methu; gwnaethoch gyfeirio at dargedau eraill nad oeddent yn eich maniffesto. Gadewch inni edrych ar y tri tharged eto: a wnewch ddweud a’u cyflawnwyd neu beidio? Ar faterion o’r math hwn y bydd pobl Cymru’n eich barnu ar 1 Mai. Ar iechyd, yr oedd targed penodol—nid addewid, ond targed—y byddech yn lleihau’r amseroedd aros i gleifion sy’n disgwyl i weld ymgynghorydd. Mae’r nifer sy’n disgwyl wedi codi o 21,000 i 76,000—targed a fethwyd yw hwnnw. Dywedasoch hefyd y byddai cyflogau yng Nghymru’n codi—targed a fethwyd yw hwnnw, gan fod cyflogau yng Nghymru’n gostwng o’u cymharu â gweddill y Deyrnas Unedig. Dywedasoch yn y strategaeth datblygu economaidd genedlaethol y byddai CMC y pen yng Nghymru’n codi ac nid yn gostwng. Dyma dri tharged yr ydych wedi’u methu. A yw hynny’n gywir neu beidio?

Rhodri Morgan The First Minister spoken in English p. 10

Rhodri Morgan Y Prif Weinidog siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 10

No, absolutely not. Please look at the facts. The last figures for wage differentials showed an improvement in the Welsh average wage relative to the UK average wage. Do please re-examine these figures before you trumpet them around Wales. Similarly, the latest figures on GDP per capita also showed a rise in the Welsh figure relative to that of the UK. On the health service, you are right to refer to the fact that the number of those on waiting lists to see a consultant has risen. The only answer is to make the investment that we are now making by increasing the intake of medical students into our medical and clinical schools by 89 per cent, with similar massive increases in the numbers training as nurses and training for the professions allied to medicine, which are so important in the alternative pathways to treatment. That is why the figures are beginning to turn around. There has been consistent improvement over the last four or five months. The number of patients waiting over 18 months for orthopaedic treatment has fallen by over 2,300 since June 2001—a drop of 98 per cent. These are not propaganda points. They are plain and simple facts and the most up-to-date statistics that we have.

Nac ydyw, dim o gwbl. Edrychwch ar y ffeithiau, os gwelwch yn dda. Yr oedd y ffigurau diwethaf am wahaniaethau mewn cyflogau’n dangos gwelliant yn y cyflog cyfartalog yng Nghymru o’i gymharu â’r cyflog cyfartalog yn y DU. Byddwch cystal ag ailedrych ar y ffigurau hyn cyn ichi eu datgan o amgylch Cymru. Yn yr un modd, yr oedd y ffigurau diweddaraf am y CMC y pen hefyd yn dangos cynnydd yn y ffigur yng Nghymru o’i gymharu ag un y DU. Ynghylch y gwasanaeth iechyd, yr ydych yn iawn wrth gyfeirio at y ffaith bod cynnydd yn y nifer sydd ar restrau aros i weld ymgynghorydd. Yr unig ateb yw buddsoddi fel yr ydym yn ei wneud yn awr drwy gynyddu’r nifer o fyfyrwyr meddygol a dderbynnir i’n hysgolion meddygol a chlinigol o 89 y cant, gyda chynnydd enfawr tebyg yn y niferoedd sy’n hyfforddi i fod yn nyrsys ac yn hyfforddi ar gyfer y proffesiynau sy’n gysylltiedig â meddygaeth, sydd mor bwysig yn y dulliau triniaeth amgen. Dyna pam y mae’r ffigurau’n dechrau newid. Bu gwelliant cyson dros y pedwar neu bum mis diwethaf. Mae’r nifer o gleifion sy’n disgwyl yn hwy na 18 mis am driniaeth orthopedig wedi gostwng o fwy na 2,300 ers Mehefin 2001—gostyngiad o 98 y cant. Nid pwyntiau propaganda yw’r rhain. Ffeithiau syml ydynt a’r ystadegau diweddaraf sydd gennym.

Dafydd Elis-Thomas The Presiding Officer spoken in English p. 10

Dafydd Elis-Thomas Y Llywydd siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 10

Question 3 (OAQ23788) is withdrawn.

Tynnwyd cwestiwn 3 (OAQ23788) yn ôl.

Recriwtio a Chadw Athrawon

Teacher Recruitment and Retention

Q4 Jonathan Morgan spoken in English p. 10

C4 Jonathan Morgan siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 10

Will the First Minister make a statement on teacher recruitment and retention in Wales and how this compares to England? (OAQ23794)

A wnaiff y Prif Weinidog ddatganiad ynghylch recriwtio a chadw athrawon yng Nghymru ac ynghylch sut y mae hyn yn cymharu â’r sefyllfa yn Lloegr? (OAQ23794)

Rhodri Morgan The First Minister spoken in English p. 10

Rhodri Morgan Y Prif Weinidog siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 10

The problem in Wales is one-third of the size of the problem in England, in that the vacancy rate in Wales is 0.4 per cent and it is 1.2 per cent in England. I am sure that you would be delighted to welcome that, Jonathan.

Mae’r broblem yng Nghymru yn un rhan o dair o faint y broblem yn Lloegr, o ran bod cyfradd y swyddi gwag yng Nghymru yn 0.4 y cant a’r gyfradd yn Lloegr yn 1.2 y cant. Yr wyf yn siŵr y byddech yn falch iawn o groesawu hynny, Jonathan.

Jonathan Morgan spoken in English p. 10

Jonathan Morgan siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 10

The First Minister has conveniently glossed over the statistics that do not make acceptable reading. The National Association of Schoolmasters Union of Women Teachers undertook work last year that demonstrated that 59 per cent of the teaching profession felt that the job was affecting their health. This year, it released figures that suggest that the number of teachers leaving the profession through ill health rose by one fifth during the last academic year. That does not make for good reading. In fact, 40 per cent of the people in Wales who complete an initial teacher-training course do not enter the profession, and at least one in ten posts in secondary schools remain unfilled. Therefore, First Minister, what is being done differently in England?

Mae’r Prif Weinidog wedi anwybyddu’n gyfleus yr ystadegau hynny nad ydynt yn dderbyniol. Gwnaed gwaith gan Gymdeithas Genedlaethol yr Ysgolfeistri Undeb yr Athrawesau y llynedd a ddangosodd fod 59 y cant o athrawon yn teimlo bod eu gwaith yn effeithio ar eu hiechyd. Eleni, cyhoeddodd ffigurau sy’n awgrymu bod nifer yr athrawon sy’n gadael yr alwedigaeth oherwydd iechyd gwael wedi codi o un rhan o bump yn ystod y flwyddyn academaidd ddiwethaf. Nid yw hynny’n beth braf i’w ddarllen. Mewn gwirionedd, o’r rhai yng Nghymru sy’n cwblhau cwrs hyfforddiant cychwynnol athrawon, nid yw 40 y cant ohonynt yn ymuno â’r proffesiwn, ac mae o leiaf un o bob deg o swyddi mewn ysgolion uwchradd yn dal i fod yn wag. Gan hynny, Brif Weinidog, beth a wneir yn wahanol yn Lloegr?

Rhodri Morgan The First Minister spoken in English p. 11

Rhodri Morgan Y Prif Weinidog siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 11

The situation is much better in Wales than it is in England—there can be no doubt about that. The supply of teachers, relative to the number of posts available, is much healthier in Wales than in England. At 0.4 per cent, not only is the vacancy rate in Wales much lower, one third of the level in England, it is also better than the rate in any region in England. The south-west is the region in the best situation in England, with a vacancy rate of 0.5 per cent. If we had a league table of Wales and the English regions, we would top the league table. It beats me as to why you fail to share my joy that Welsh schools do not have the vacancy rate problem that English schools do. It must be to do with the political party to which you belong.

Mae’r sefyllfa’n well o lawer yng Nghymru nag ydyw yn Lloegr—ni ellir amau hynny. Mae cyflenwad athrawon, o’i gymharu â nifer y swyddi sydd ar gael, yn iachach o lawer yng Nghymru nag yn Lloegr. Mae’r gyfradd swyddi gwag o 0.4 y cant a geir yng Nghymru’n is o lawer, yn un rhan o dair o’r lefel yn Lloegr, ac mae hefyd yn well na’r gyfradd mewn unrhyw ranbarth yn Lloegr. Y de-orllewin yw’r rhanbarth yn Lloegr sydd yn y sefyllfa orau, gyda chyfradd swyddi gwag o 0.5 y cant. Pe byddai gennym dabl cynghrair yn dangos Cymru a rhanbarthau Lloegr, byddem ar frig y tabl. Ni allaf ddeall pam nad ydych cyn falched â mi na cheir problem o ran y gyfradd swyddi gwag mewn ysgolion yng Nghymru fel a geir yn ysgolion Lloegr. Rhaid bod hynny’n ymwneud â’r blaid wleidyddol yr ydych yn perthyn iddi.

Mick Bates spoken in English p. 11

Mick Bates siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 11

Do you agree that this partnership Government, driven by the Liberal Democrats, in fully funding the threshold agreement and the abolition of key—[Interruption.]

A gytunwch fod y Llywodraeth bartneriaeth hon, a yrrir gan y Democratiaid Rhyddfrydol, wrth lawn gyllido’r cytundeb ar y trothwy a diddymu—[Torri ar draws.]

Dafydd Elis-Thomas The Presiding Officer spoken in English p. 11

Dafydd Elis-Thomas Y Llywydd siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 11

Order. Every party, even minority parties, must be heard.

Trefn. Rhaid i bob plaid, hyd yn oed pleidiau lleiafrifol, gael gwrandawiad.

Mick Bates spoken in English p. 11

Mick Bates siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 11

Do you agree that the Government, in fully funding the threshold agreement and abolishing key stage 1 tests, has done more to recruit and retain teachers than was done through all the policies implemented by the Tories and their administration, which increased testing and bureaucracy?

A gytunwch fod y Llywodraeth, wrth lawn gyllido’r cytundeb ar y trothwy a diddymu profion cyfnod allweddol 1, wedi gwneud mwy i recriwtio a chadw athrawon nag a wnaed drwy’r holl bolisïau a weithredwyd gan y Torïaid a’u gweinyddiaeth, a ychwanegodd at y profion a’r fiwrocratiaeth?

Rhodri Morgan The First Minister spoken in English p. 12

Rhodri Morgan Y Prif Weinidog siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 12

I certainly agree with that. However, I am not sure that I entirely agreed with your earlier remarks. Most vehicles have four wheels, and I suppose that the Liberal Democrats could lay claim to one, but it certainly is not the steering wheel.

Yr wyf yn sicr yn cytuno â hynny. Er hynny, nid wyf yn sicr fy mod yn cytuno â’r cwbl o’ch sylwadau cynharach. Mae pedair olwyn i’r rhan fwyaf o gerbydau, ac mae’n debyg y gallai’r Democratiaid Rhyddfrydol hawlio eu bod yn un ohonynt, ond nid hwy yw’r llyw, yn sicr.

Helen Mary Jones siaradwyd yn Gymraeg t. 12

Helen Mary Jones spoken in Welsh p. 12

Brif Weinidog, a ydych yn cytuno, er nad oes problem gyffredinol wrth recriwtio a chadw athrawon, bod meysydd lle ceir problemau? A ydych hefyd yn cytuno bod pwysau gwaith yn broblem y cyfeiria pob athro ati, a bod hynny yn bendant yn gyrru pobl brofiadol o’r proffesiwn? A ydych yn rhannu fy mhryderon nad yw dau undeb athrawon pwysig yng Nghymru, sef Undeb Cenedlaethol Athrawon Cymru a’r National Union of Teachers, wedi arwyddo’r cytundeb llwyth gwaith? Beth mae eich Llywodraeth yn ei wneud i’w perswadio i arwyddo? Ni allwch ei alw’n gytundeb pan fo hanner yr athrawon heb gytuno iddo.

First Minister, do you agree that, although there is not a general problem in recruiting and retaining teachers, there are areas where there are problems? Do you also agree that pressure of work is a problem that all teachers refer to, and that that is certainly an issue that drives experienced people out of the profession? Do you share my concern that two important teaching unions in Wales, namely Undeb Cenedlaethol Athrawon Cymru and the National Union of Teachers, have not signed the workload agreement? What is your Government doing to persuade them to sign it? You cannot call it an agreement when half the teachers have not agreed to it.

Rhodri Morgan Y Prif Weinidog siaradwyd yn Gymraeg t. 12

Rhodri Morgan The First Minister spoken in Welsh p. 12

Yr ydych yn iawn bod problem o ran recriwtio athrawon Cymraeg yn arbennig, a hefyd athrawon mathemateg, ffiseg a gwyddoniaeth gyffredinol. Dyna’r pedwar pwnc lle gwelir anhawster a rhaid ceisio delio â hynny. Dyna pam mae lefel y grantiau, neu’r cymorth ariannol arall a roddwn er mwyn dwyn perswâd ar bobl a allai fynd ymlaen i ddysgu’r pynciau hynny i wneud hynny, yn fwy ffafriol nag ydynt ar gyfer y rhai sydd yn hyfforddi i ddysgu pynciau eraill.

You are right that there is a problem in recruiting Welsh teachers especially, and also mathematics, physics and general science teachers. Those are the four subjects where there are difficulties and we must try to address that. That is why grant levels, or other financial assistance that we provide in order to persuade people who could become teachers in those subjects to do so, are more favourable than they are for those training to teach other subjects.

O ran yr NUT ac UCAC yn peidio â chytuno â’n strategaeth i ysgafnhau’r pwysau biwrocrataidd ar athrawon, credaf ei fod yn bwysig eu perswadio nad rhywbeth i danseilio statws athro yw ein syniadau i gael mwy o bobl yn yr ystafell ddosbarth. Pan ymwelaf ag ysgolion yng Nghymru ac yn fy etholaeth, Gorllewin Caerdydd, dywed prifathrawon bob amser bod cael pâr o ddwylo ychwanegol yn y dosbarth yn rhyddhau amser athrawon ac yn eu galluogi i roi sylw arbennig i’r rhai sydd o flaen y gad a’r rhai sydd yn llusgo y tu ôl. Mae’n bwysig cael y dwylo ychwanegol hynny ar ffurf staff nad ydynt yn athrawon.

On the NUT and UCAC not agreeing with our strategy to lighten the bureaucratic burden on teachers, it is important that we persuade them that our ideas on bringing more people into the classroom are not intended to undermine the status of teachers. When I visit schools in my constituency, Cardiff West, and throughout Wales headteachers always tell me that having an extra pair of hands in the classroom frees up teachers’ time, allowing them to give special attention to those who are ahead of the game and those who are falling behind. It is important to have that extra pair of hands in the form of additional non-teaching staff.

Y Gyllideb

The Budget

Q5 Peter Black spoken in English p. 13

C5 Peter Black siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 13

Will the First Minister make a statement on discussions between the Welsh Assembly Government and the Treasury on the forthcoming budget? (OAQ23797)

A wnaiff y Prif Weinidog ddatganiad am drafodaethau rhwng Llywodraeth Cynulliad Cymru a’r Trysorlys am y gyllideb nesaf? (OAQ23797)

Rhodri Morgan The First Minister spoken in English p. 13

Rhodri Morgan Y Prif Weinidog siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 13

As I told the Assembly last week, the Assembly Government, through Edwina Hart, the Finance Minister, presented proposals to the Chancellor in October relating to possible fiscal variations within the UK, especially for the new research and development tax credit, and for changes that would help small firms in Wales. These included reducing the minimum qualifying level for the research and development tax credit.

Fel y dywedais wrth y Cynulliad yr wythnos diwethaf, cyflwynodd Llywodraeth y Cynulliad, drwy Edwina Hart, y Gweinidog Cyllid, gynigion i’r Canghellor ym mis Hydref ynghylch amrywiadau cyllidol posibl o fewn y DU, yn enwedig ar gyfer y credyd treth ymchwil a datblygu newydd, ac ar gyfer newidiadau a fyddai’n helpu busnesau bach yng Nghymru. Yr oeddynt yn cynnwys gostwng y lefel isaf ar gyfer ymgymhwyso i dderbyn y credyd treth ymchwil a datblygu.

Peter Black spoken in English p. 13

Peter Black siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 13

The partnership Government has introduced many benefits to Wales as a result of devolution. One such benefit is the introduction today of free bus passes for men aged over 60. Do you agree that, had we a fair settlement based on the needs of Wales, we would have many more resources available to do much more for the people of Wales?

Mae’r Llywodraeth bartneriaeth wedi dod â llawer o fuddion i Gymru o ganlyniad i ddatganoli. Un budd o’r fath yw cyflwyno tocynnau bws rhad ac am ddim heddiw ar gyfer dynion dros 60 oed. A ydych yn cytuno, pe byddai gennym setliad teg a oedd yn seiliedig ar anghenion Cymru, y byddai llawer mwy o adnoddau ar gael inni i wneud mwy o lawer dros bobl Cymru?

Rhodri Morgan The First Minister spoken in English p. 13

Rhodri Morgan Y Prif Weinidog siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 13

You are eliding a fair settlement, and a settlement that means more money, together. We would obviously never refuse more money. When we have needed it, we have argued for it, as we did in the case of Objective 1 funding, and we fortunately secured more money in that case. We are the only administration, pre and post democratic devolution in 1999, that has received money over and above the Barnett formula for specific purposes. We argued for that, which is one of the reasons why Objective 1 has been such a roaring success in Wales, with £1 billion now committed to Objective 1 projects.

Yr ydych yn cyplysu setliad teg a setliad sy’n golygu y ceir rhagor o arian. Ni fyddem byth yn gwrthod rhagor o arian, wrth gwrs. Pan fu ei angen arnom, gwnaethom ddadlau dros ei gael, fel y gwnaed yn achos cyllid Amcan 1, a buom yn ffodus i sicrhau mwy o arian yn yr achos hwnnw. Ni yw’r unig weinyddiaeth, cyn ac ar ôl datganoli democrataidd yn 1999, a gafodd arian yn ychwanegol at fformiwla Barnett i ddibenion penodol. Gwnaethom ddadlau dros hynny, a dyna un o’r rhesymau y bu Amcan 1 yn gymaint o lwyddiant yng Nghymru, a bod £1 biliwn wedi’i neilltuo ar gyfer prosiectau Amcan 1 erbyn hyn.

Alun Cairns spoken in English p. 13

Alun Cairns siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 13

Since almost all the net new jobs have been created in the public sector, has the First Minister calculated the burden that the increase in national insurance contributions over the coming financial year will place on the public sector as an employer?

Gan mai yn y sector cyhoeddus y crewyd bron y cwbl o’r swyddi newydd net, a yw’r Prif Weinidog wedi cyfrifo maint y baich a fydd ar y sector cyhoeddus fel cyflogwr oherwydd y cynnydd yn y cyfraniadau yswiriant gwladol dros y flwyddyn ariannol nesaf?

Rhodri Morgan The First Minister spoken in English p. 14

Rhodri Morgan Y Prif Weinidog siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 14

You have not considered what employment categories actually mean. You are looking at the category known as public administration, health and social care. The growth has not been in public administration, but on the health and social care side. There has been no rise in public administration. You must be a little more subtle. The comment that you have made previously, that what has happened in Wales has been a bonanza for bureaucrats, is the height of absurdity. You should look below the surface figures for that category and try not to get over-excited when you see the words ‘public administration’ and rush to fire off a letter to The Western Mail, the South Wales Evening Post or whichever. The increase is in employment in health and social care, much of which is, of course, in the private sector.

Nid ydych wedi ystyried beth y mae’r categorïau cyflogaeth yn ei olygu. Yr ydych yn edrych ar gategori o’r enw gweinyddu cyhoeddus, iechyd a gofal cymdeithasol. Nid mewn gweinyddu cyhoeddus y bu’r cynnydd, ond ar yr ochr iechyd a gofal cymdeithasol. Ni fu cynnydd mewn gweinyddu cyhoeddus. Dylech fod ychydig yn gynilach. Mae’r sylw a wnaethoch o’r blaen, i’r perwyl bod yr hyn a ddigwyddodd yng Nghymru’n dod â ffyniant i fiwrocratiaid, yn gwbl hurt. Dylech edrych o dan y ffigurau arwynebol ar gyfer y categori hwnnw a cheisio peidio â gorgynhyrfu pan welwch y geiriau ‘gweinyddu cyhoeddus’ a rhuthro i ysgrifennu llythyr i The Western Mail, y South Wales Evening Post neu ba un bynnag. Mae’r cynnydd mewn cyflogaeth mewn iechyd a gofal cymdeithasol, y mae llawer ohoni, wrth gwrs, yn y sector preifat.

Janet Ryder spoken in English p. 14

Janet Ryder siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 14

I am sure that you are aware that the percentage of the population that is elderly in Denbighshire and Conwy has now outstripped the percentage in areas such as Bournemouth. One of the factors that makes the biggest impact on elderly people’s lives is the level of their pensions. What representations have you made to Westminster on the level of pensions and linking them once again to average earnings?

Yr wyf yn siŵr y gwyddoch fod y ganran o’r boblogaeth sydd mewn oed yn sir Ddinbych a Chonwy yn fwy bellach na’r ganran mewn ardaloedd fel Bournemouth. Un o’r ffactorau a gaiff yr effaith fwyaf ar fywydau pobl oedrannus yw lefel eu pensiynau. Pa sylwadau yr ydych wedi’u cyflwyno i San Steffan am lefel pensiynau ac am eu cysylltu eto ag enillion cyfartalog?

Rhodri Morgan The First Minister spoken in English p. 14

Rhodri Morgan Y Prif Weinidog siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 14

We have not made such a proposal. That would be a sweeping proposal. I accept that there are strong arguments for it, and many will be attracted by them in the light of what has happened to the pensions industry. Previously, private pensions were overfunded and people cancelled contributions for a year or two as there was so much money in the funds. That was a function of the variations in the stock market. The number of pensioners in Wales is above the UK average. In certain parts of Wales—the north Wales coast and parts of the former Dyfed among them—the percentage is particularly significant. Many of these elderly people will not be on the minimum state pension, nor will they necessarily be eligible for the minimum income guarantee. However, if they are, then we must improve their take-up of the minimum income guarantee. We are campaigning to make people less reluctant to apply for the minimum income guarantee because they see a stigma attached to it. There should not be a stigma attached to it; if you are entitled to it, you should get it. The same applies to the other health-related benefits which many either do not realise that they are eligible for, or are reluctant to apply for. If you are entitled to it, you should get it.

Ni wnaethom gynnig o’r fath. Byddai hynny’n gynnig ysgubol. Derbyniaf fod dadleuon cryf o’i blaid, a bydd llawer yn cael eu denu ganddynt yng ngolwg yr hyn a ddigwyddodd i’r diwydiant pensiynau. O’r blaen, yr oedd pensiynau preifat wedi’u gorgyllido a byddai pobl yn rhoi’r gorau i gyfrannu am flwyddyn neu ddwy gan fod cymaint o arian yn y cronfeydd. Yr oedd hynny’n ffwythiant i’r newidiadau yn y farchnad stoc. Mae nifer y pensiynwyr yng Nghymru’n uwch na’r cyfartaledd yn y DU. Mewn rhai rhannau o Gymru—ac arfordir y Gogledd a rhannau o’r hen Ddyfed yn eu mysg—mae’r ganran yn arbennig o fawr. Mae llawer o’r bobl oedrannus hyn nad ydynt yn byw ar y pensiwn gwladol isaf, ac nid ydynt o reidrwydd yn gymwys ar gyfer y gwarant isafswm incwm. Fodd bynnag, os ydynt, rhaid inni sicrhau bod mwy ohonynt yn derbyn y gwarant isafswm incwm. Yr ydym yn ymgyrchu i beri i bobl fod yn llai amharod i ymgeisio am y gwarant isafswm incwm oherwydd y gwaradwydd a welant ynglŷn â hynny. Ni ddylai gwaradwydd o’r fath fod; os oes gennych hawl i’w gael, dylech ei gael. Mae’r un peth yn wir am y budd-daliadau eraill sy’n ymwneud ag iechyd y mae llawer heb sylweddoli eu bod yn gymwys i’w cael, neu’n amharod i ymgeisio amdanynt. Os oes gennych hawl iddo, dylech ei gael.

Mannau Chwarae (Ynys Môn)

Play Areas (Anglesey)

Q6 Peter Rogers spoken in English p. 15

C6 Peter Rogers siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 15

Can the First Minister make a statement on the availability of play areas to all children in Anglesey? (OAQ23801)

A wnaiff y Prif Weinidog ddatganiad ynghylch a oes mannau chwarae ar gael i bob plentyn ar Ynys Môn? (OAQ23801)

Rhodri Morgan The First Minister spoken in English p. 15

Rhodri Morgan Y Prif Weinidog siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 15

The provision of play areas for children in Anglesey is primarily the responsibility of the Isle of Anglesey County Council, acting in line with the priorities established by the local children and young people’s framework partnership. However, we do not presently have a specific proposal on play areas as we do on opening swimming pools in Anglesey leisure centres up to children. I believe that in two weeks’ time, when the Easter holidays start, swimming pools in leisure centres will be available free of charge to children, as they will during the summer holidays. I am sure that you, and everyone else, will welcome that, because it makes a major contribution to play, teaches good rather than anti-social behaviour, and is also a good anti-poverty strategy.

Cyfrifoldeb i Gyngor Sir Ynys Môn yn bennaf yw darparu mannau chwarae i blant yn Ynys Môn, gan weithredu’n unol â’r blaenoriaethau a bennwyd gan y bartneriaeth fframwaith plant a phobl ifanc leol. Fodd bynnag, nid oes gennym gynnig penodol ar hyn o bryd ar fannau chwarae fel y mae gennym ar agor pyllau nofio yng nghanolfannau hamdden yn Ynys Môn i blant. Credaf y bydd pyllau nofio mewn canolfannau hamdden yn cynnig mynediad am ddim i blant ym mhen pythefnos, ar ddechrau gwyliau’r Pasg, fel y byddant yn ystod gwyliau’r haf. Yr wyf yn siŵr y byddwch chi, a phawb arall, yn croesawu hynny, gan ei fod yn cyfrannu’n fawr at chwarae, yn dysgu ymddygiad da yn hytrach nag ymddygiad gwrthgymdeithasol, ac mae hefyd yn strategaeth wrthdlodi dda.

Peter Rogers spoken in English p. 15

Peter Rogers siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 15

I am sure you will agree that play deprivation can affect all children, regardless of their socio-economic status. Are you aware that Anglesey is the only Welsh county in which the local authority is not responsible for the maintenance and development of play areas? Last December, a report commissioned by Play Wales unearthed the fact that all of the 57 play areas in Anglesey failed to meet European safety standards. I realise that Communities First and other regeneration efforts have now taken in 10 areas. However, both poor and relatively affluent areas are affected by this. What action can you take to ensure that play areas are developed across the whole of Wales, are renewed properly and that more is done to help children who have been deprived of play areas?

Yr wyf yn siŵr y cytunwch fod amddifadu plant o chwarae yn gallu effeithio ar bob plentyn, beth bynnag fo’i statws cymdeithasol-economaidd. A wyddoch mai Ynys Môn yw’r unig sir yng Nghymru lle nad yw’r awdurdod lleol yn gyfrifol am gynnal a chadw a datblygu mannau chwarae? Fis Rhagfyr diwethaf, datgelwyd mewn adroddiad a gomisiynwyd gan Chwarae Cymru fod pob un o’r 57 o fannau chwarae yn Ynys Môn yn methu â bodloni safonau diogelwch Ewropeaidd. Sylweddolaf fod Cymunedau yn Gyntaf ac ymdrechion adfywio eraill yn cynnwys 10 ardal bellach. Fodd bynnag, mae hyn yn effeithio ar ardaloedd tlawd a rhai cymharol gefnog. Pa gamau y gallwch eu cymryd i sicrhau y caiff mannau chwarae eu datblygu ledled Cymru, y cânt eu hadnewyddu’n briodol ac y gwneir rhagor i helpu plant sydd wedi’u hamddifadu o fannau chwarae?

Rhodri Morgan The First Minister spoken in English p. 16

Rhodri Morgan Y Prif Weinidog siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 16

We started three years ago with the children and youth partnership fund, which, as of today, becomes part of the Cymorth grant. The children and youth partnership fund, which the county council was entitled to bid for, had a particular emphasis on areas of deprivation. The fund started out at £1 million in its first two years and stood at £2.7 million in the year that has just finished. I will write to you as to what the budget, for which the council might be eligible to bid, will be for Cymorth starting today. However, Anglesey’s allocation last year, from Communities First money, was £480,000.

Dechreuasom dair blynedd yn ôl gyda’r gronfa partneriaeth plant a phobl ifanc, a ddaw’n rhan, o heddiw ymlaen, o’r grant Cymorth. Yr oedd y gronfa partneriaeth plant a phobl ifanc, yr oedd gan y cyngor sir hawl i ymgeisio iddi, yn rhoi pwyslais penodol ar ardaloedd difreintiedig. Yr oedd £1 filiwn yn y gronfa yn y ddwy flynedd gyntaf a £2.7 miliwn yn y flwyddyn sydd newydd ddod i ben. Gwnaf ysgrifennu atoch ynghylch y gyllideb a fydd ar gael i Cymorth o heddiw ymlaen, y gallai’r cyngor fod yn gymwys i ymgeisio iddo. Fodd bynnag, y dyraniad i Ynys Môn y llynedd, o arian Cymunedau yn Gyntaf, oedd £480,000.

Eleanor Burnham spoken in English p. 16

Eleanor Burnham siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 16

We all acknowledge the importance of play opportunities to children’s health and development and to keeping them off the streets. Do you agree that the Assembly Government has led the way with the UK’s first play policy? Apart from Anglesey, which you have just mentioned, we must commend the opening of swimming pools to children throughout north Wales.

Yr ydym oll yn cydnabod bod cyfleoedd i chwarae’n bwysig o ran iechyd a datblygiad plant ac i’w cadw oddi ar y strydoedd. A gytunwch fod Llywodraeth y Cynulliad wedi arwain y ffordd gyda’r polisi chwarae cyntaf yn y DU? Heblaw Ynys Môn, yr ydych newydd gyfeirio ati, rhaid inni ganmol y ffaith bod pyllau nofio’n cael eu hagor i blant ledled y Gogledd.

Rhodri Morgan The First Minister spoken in English p. 16

Rhodri Morgan Y Prif Weinidog siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 16

The scheme is being piloted this year. I think that it is open to every local authority to apply to get into the scheme. As far as I am aware, 11 out of 22 local authorities will be opening up swimming pools this Easter and in the summer holidays. However I do not think that there is a restriction. All 22 could do this, if they got their act together in time. In 2004-05 we expect every local authority in Wales to participate in that scheme. Your general point is also correct. Play policy is a suitable subject for us to discuss in the Assembly. It is not below our radar. It is an essential part of good social and education policies and is a good anti-poverty strategy. In so many ways, play contributes to making good citizens for the future. Some people do not realise that and think that it should be left to local authorities, charities or smaller communities via the community council. That is not the case. I am pleased that that has also now been recognised at a UK level. The Assembly Government is contributing to a UK-wide review of children’s play. The consultation document, ‘Funding for Children’s Play’, was launched in February and the responses received by close of play yesterday will inform the review and help set the agenda for a play strategy for Wales.

Mae’r cynllun yn cael ei roi ar brawf eleni. Credaf fod pob awdurdod lleol yn rhydd i ymgeisio i ymuno â’r cynllun. Hyd y gwn i, bydd 11 o 22 awdurdod lleol yn agor eu pyllau nofio y Pasg hwn ac yng ngwyliau’r haf. Fodd bynnag, ni chredaf fod unrhyw gyfyngiad. Gallai pob un o’r 22 wneud hyn, os rhoddent drefn ar eu pethau mewn pryd. Disgwyliwn y bydd pob awdurdod lleol yng Nghymru’n cymryd rhan yn y cynllun hwnnw yn 2004-05. Mae’r pwynt cyffredinol a wnaethoch yn gywir hefyd. Mae polisi chwarae’n bwnc addas inni ei drafod yn y Cynulliad. Mae’n deilwng o’n sylw. Mae’n rhan annatod o bolisïau cymdeithasol ac addysg da ac mae’n strategaeth wrthdlodi dda. Mae chwarae’n cyfrannu mewn nifer fawr o ffyrdd at greu dinasyddion da ar gyfer y dyfodol. Mae rhai pobl nad ydynt yn sylweddoli hynny ac yn credu y dylid ei adael i awdurdodau lleol, elusennau neu gymunedau llai drwy’r cyngor cymuned. Nid felly y mae. Yr wyf yn falch bod hynny wedi’i gydnabod bellach ar lefel y DU hefyd. Mae Llywodraeth y Cynulliad yn cyfrannu at adolygiad o chwarae plant ledled y DU. Lansiwyd y ddogfen ymgynghori, ‘Funding for Children’s Play’, yn Chwefror a bydd yr ymatebion a ddaeth i law erbyn diwedd y dydd ddoe yn goleuo’r adolygiad ac yn helpu i osod yr agenda ar gyfer strategaeth chwarae i Gymru.

Ymddygiad Cynghorwyr Sir Caerdydd

The Conduct of Cardiff County Councillors

Q7 Alison Halford spoken in English p. 17

C7 Alison Halford siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 17

What discussions has the First Minister had with the UK Government regarding the conduct of Cardiff county councillors? (OAQ23796)

Pa drafodaethau y mae’r Prif Weinidog wedi’u cynnal gyda Llywodraeth y DU ynghylch ymddygiad cynghorwyr sir Caerdydd? (OAQ23796)

Rhodri Morgan The First Minister spoken in English p. 17

Rhodri Morgan Y Prif Weinidog siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 17

I am not sure whether that is below the radar or above it. The answer in any case is ‘none’.

Nid wyf yn sicr a yw hynny yn deilwng o’n sylw. Y naill ffordd neu’r llall, yr ateb yw ‘dim’.

Alison Halford spoken in English p. 17

Alison Halford siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 17

It might not be above your radar, First Minister, but Councillor Goodway has told his cabinet colleagues a version of vital financial dealings with the Assembly that cannot be confirmed by his own monitoring officer, the Auditor General for Wales or Assembly records. His version appears in three cabinet minutes. The minutes have been signed by him as representing the truth. Evidence suggests that the Lord Mayor has seriously misled his executive by making statements that appear untrue. The refusal to answer my letters and direct questions on the matter seems to me to bring Wales’s biggest council into disrepute. I have therefore made a complaint to his standards committee. Do you agree that all councillors and elected representatives should act with openness and probity at all times?

Efallai nad yw’n deilwng o’ch sylw chi, Brif Weinidog, ond mae’r Cynghorydd Goodway wedi cyfleu fersiwn i’w gyd-aelodau cabinet o drafodion ariannol hollbwysig â’r Cynulliad nad yw ei swyddog monitro ei hun, Archwilydd Cyffredinol Cymru na chofnodion y Cynulliad yn gallu ei gadarnhau. Mae ei fersiwn ef yn ymddangos mewn tri chofnod cabinet. Arwyddwyd y cofnodion ganddo ef fel rhai sy’n mynegi’r gwirionedd. Mae tystiolaeth yn awgrymu bod yr Arglwydd Faer wedi camarwain ei weithrediaeth yn ddybryd drwy wneud datganiadau a ymddengys yn anghywir. Yn fy marn i, mae’r gwrthodiad i ateb fy llythyrau a’m cwestiynau uniongyrchol ar y mater yn dwyn anfri ar gyngor mwyaf Cymru. Oherwydd hynny, yr wyf wedi cyflwyno cŵyn i’w bwyllgor safonau. A gytunwch y dylai pob cynghorydd a chynrychiolydd etholedig weithredu’n agored ac yn onest bob amser?

Dafydd Elis-Thomas The Presiding Officer spoken in English p. 17

Dafydd Elis-Thomas Y Llywydd siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 17

Order. May I confirm that I did not hear an allegation of untruthfulness against another person, which would be contrary to our Standing Orders?

Trefn. A gaf gadarnhau na chlywais gyhuddiad o anwiredd yn erbyn rhywun arall, gan y byddai hynny’n groes i’n Rheolau Sefydlog?

Alison Halford spoken in English p. 18

Alison Halford siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 18

I chose my words extremely carefully and I am happy to stand by my supplementary question.

Dewisais fy ngeiriau’n ofalus dros ben ac yr wyf yn fodlon dal at fy nghwestiwn atodol.

Dafydd Elis-Thomas The Presiding Officer spoken in English p. 18

Dafydd Elis-Thomas Y Llywydd siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 18

I want to establish that you did not allege that someone had been untruthful, which would be contrary to our Standing Orders.

Dymunaf gadarnhau na wnaethoch honni bod rhywun wedi dweud anwiredd, gan y byddai hynny’n groes i’n Rheolau Sefydlog.

Alison Halford spoken in English p. 18

Alison Halford siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 18

Would it be helpful if I were to read the question again? [Interruption.]

A fyddai o gymorth pe byddwn yn darllen y cwestiwn eto? [Torri ar draws.]

Dafydd Elis-Thomas The Presiding Officer spoken in English p. 18

Dafydd Elis-Thomas Y Llywydd siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 18

Order.

Trefn.

Alison Halford spoken in English p. 18

Alison Halford siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 18

I am not trying to be unhelpful.

Nid wyf yn ceisio peidio â bod o gymorth.

Dafydd Elis-Thomas The Presiding Officer spoken in English p. 18

Dafydd Elis-Thomas Y Llywydd siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 18

Order. This is a serious matter and we must abide by our Standing Orders. If there was an allegation of untruth, the wording should be amended.

Trefn. Mae hyn yn fater difrifol a rhaid inni gadw at ein Rheolau Sefydlog. Os oedd cyhuddiad o ddweud anwiredd, dylid newid y geiriad.

Alison Halford spoken in English p. 18

Alison Halford siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 18

My supplementary question was based on evidence suggesting that the mayor had seriously misled his executive by making a statement that appears to be untrue.

Yr oedd fy nghwestiwn atodol yn seiliedig ar dystiolaeth sy’n awgrymu bod y maer wedi camarwain ei weithrediaeth yn ddybryd drwy wneud datganiad yr ymddengys ei fod yn anghywir.

Dafydd Elis-Thomas The Presiding Officer spoken in English p. 18

Dafydd Elis-Thomas Y Llywydd siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 18

That is marginal. Will you rephrase the expression containing the words ‘appears to be untrue’?

Mae hynny ar y ffin. A wnewch aralleirio’r ymadrodd sy’n cynnwys y geiriau ‘ymddengys ei fod yn anghywir’?

Alison Halford spoken in English p. 18

Alison Halford siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 18

I will say that it seems not to match the contents of the minutes.

Dywedaf ei fod yn ymddangos nad yw’n cyfateb i gynnwys y cofnodion.

Dafydd Elis-Thomas The Presiding Officer spoken in English p. 18

Dafydd Elis-Thomas Y Llywydd siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 18

That is fine.

Mae hynny’n iawn.

Rhodri Morgan The First Minister spoken in English p. 18

Rhodri Morgan Y Prif Weinidog siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 18

I am a great admirer of the skills that you acquired during your years in the police force, Alison—your ability to rephrase remarks when they are outside the rules and to obtain inside information about what goes on inside Cardiff County Council cabinet meetings; you have succeeded to a greater extent than I have in that regard. I am not aware of the allegation to which you refer. However, if you feel that certain matters should be brought to my attention, I would be grateful if you would do so before close of play on Thursday.

Mae gennyf feddwl mawr o’r sgiliau y gwnaethoch eu dysgu yn ystod eich blynyddoedd yn yr heddlu, Alison—eich gallu i aralleirio sylwadau os ydynt y tu allan i’r rheolau ac i gael gwybodaeth o’r tu mewn am yr hyn sy’n digwydd yng nghyfarfodydd cabinet Cyngor Sir Caerdydd; cawsoch fwy o lwyddiant na mi yn hynny o beth. Nid wyf yn ymwybodol o’r cyhuddiad y cyfeiriwch ato. Fodd bynnag, os teimlwch y dylid dwyn materion penodol i’m sylw, byddwn yn ddiolchgar pe gwnaech hynny cyn diwedd y dydd ddydd Iau.

William Graham spoken in English p. 18

William Graham siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 18

Will you outline how your administration has ensured that councillors in Wales abide by the code of conduct, and will you undertake to deal appropriately with those whose conduct has fallen below its standards?

A wnewch ddisgrifio sut y mae’ch gweinyddiaeth wedi sicrhau bod cynghorwyr yng Nghymru’n dal at y cod ymddygiad, ac a wnewch ymgymryd i ddelio’n briodol â’r rhai y mae eu hymddygiad wedi syrthio’n is na’i safonau?

Rhodri Morgan The First Minister spoken in English p. 19

Rhodri Morgan Y Prif Weinidog siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 19

That is to do with the structure whereby each council has an independent monitoring officer. Opposition or cabinet members who have doubts about whether what they are doing is in order, can consult the monitoring officer, who is not a member of the executive but who works for the whole council, and can, therefore, give an independent view. The same applies to a standards committee. I believe that most councils in Wales have a standards committee. Cardiff’s committee is chaired by Bishop Barry Morgan, the Bishop of Llandaff; the council could not make a better, more independent and more fair-minded choice than Bishop Morgan—I had better add that we are not related. It is important that that degree of independence is secured for opposition members, troubled council officials and, sometimes, troubled backbench members of the council’s majority party. That structure exists, as far as I know, in virtually every local authority in Wales.

Mae hynny’n ymwneud â’r strwythur sy’n golygu bod gan bob cyngor swyddog monitro annibynnol. Mae aelodau’r wrthblaid neu’r cabinet sy’n ansicr ynghylch a yw’r hyn a wnânt mewn trefn, yn gallu ymgynghori â’r swyddog monitro, nad yw’n aelod o’r weithrediaeth ond sydd yn gweithio ar ran y cyngor cyfan, ac sydd, felly, yn gallu rhoi barn annibynnol. Mae’r un peth yn wir am bwyllgor safonau. Credaf fod pwyllgor safonau gan y rhan fwyaf o gynghorau yng Nghymru. Cadeirydd pwyllgor Caerdydd yw’r Esgob Barry Morgan, Esgob Llandaf; ni allai’r cyngor ddewis neb a fyddai’n well nac yn fwy annibynnol nac yn decach na’r Esgob Morgan—byddai’n well imi ychwanegu nad ydym yn perthyn i’n gilydd. Mae’n bwysig sicrhau rhywfaint o annibyniaeth er mwyn aelodau’r wrthblaid, swyddogion cyngor gofidus ac, weithiau, aelodau mainc-gefn gofidus ym mhlaid fwyafrifol y cyngor. Mae’r strwythur hwnnw’n bod, hyd y gwn i, ym mron bob awdurdod lleol yng Nghymru.

Owen John Thomas spoken in English p. 19

Owen John Thomas siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 19

You will be aware of Cardiff council’s policy of restricting communication with Assembly Members to its cabinet ministers only. During the last four years, I have held 140 surgeries in the Cardiff area, and have dealt with hundreds of problems concerning the council. One response took 80 days, and in another case, in relation to a school, it took several letters and over 16 months before even an acknowledgement was received. Do you agree that, as First Minister, you should put pressure on the council to ensure that this unacceptable practice is brought to an end?

Byddwch yn gwybod am bolisi cyngor Caerdydd o beidio â gadael i neb ond gweinidogion ei gabinet gysylltu ag Aelodau o’r Cynulliad. Yn ystod y pedair blynedd diwethaf, yr wyf wedi cynnal 140 o gymorthfeydd yn ardal Caerdydd, ac wedi trafod cannoedd o broblemau sy’n ymwneud â’r cyngor. Cymerodd 80 diwrnod i gael un ymateb, ac mewn achos arall, a oedd yn ymwneud ag ysgol, cymerodd sawl llythyr a dros 16 mis i gael llythyr cydnabod hyd yn oed. A gytunwch y dylech chi, fel y Prif Weinidog, roi pwysau ar y cyngor i sicrhau y rhoir terfyn ar yr arfer annerbyniol hwn?

Rhodri Morgan The First Minister spoken in English p. 19

Rhodri Morgan Y Prif Weinidog siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 19

I am not sure if you are implying that this practice is unacceptable and also that it is applied by Cardiff council only, because I understand that the authority to the north of Cardiff, Rhondda Cynon Taf, may have the same policy—

Nid wyf yn sicr a ydych yn awgrymu bod yr arfer hwn yn annerbyniol a hefyd mai dim ond cyngor Caerdydd sy’n ei weithredu, oherwydd deallaf ei bod yn bosibl bod yr awdurdod tua’r gogledd o Gaerdydd, Rhondda Cynon Taf, yn meddu ar yr un polisi—

Owen John Thomas spoken in English p. 19

Owen John Thomas siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 19

Eighty days to answer a letter.

Pedwar ugain niwrnod i ateb llythyr.

Dafydd Elis-Thomas The Presiding Officer spoken in English p. 20

Dafydd Elis-Thomas Y Llywydd siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 20

Order. You have asked your supplementary question.

Trefn. Yr ydych wedi gofyn eich cwestiwn atodol.

Rhodri Morgan The First Minister spoken in English p. 20

Rhodri Morgan Y Prif Weinidog siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 20

It is important that you apply your criticism fairly. You do not only hold surgeries in Cardiff, and if you hold surgeries in Rhondda Cynon Taf it would be interesting to know what practice that council follows when you write to it. If a council chooses to implement such a policy, it is important that it does not restrict the flow of information. I write to officers and cabinet members, and I do not think that that has affected the level of service. However, it would be interesting to know what happens when you pursue similar cases in Rhondda Cynon Taf; perhaps you could write to me about that.

Mae’n bwysig ichi gymhwyso’ch beirniadaeth yn deg. Nid yng Nghaerdydd yn unig yr ydych yn cynnal cymorthfeydd, ac os cynhaliwch rai yn Rhondda Cynon Taf byddai’n ddiddorol gwybod pa arfer y mae’r cyngor hwnnw’n ei ddilyn pan ysgrifennwch ato. Os yw cyngor yn dewis rhoi polisi o’r fath ar waith, mae’n bwysig nad yw’n cyfyngu ar y llif o wybodaeth. Yr wyf yn ysgrifennu at swyddogion ac aelodau cabinet, ac ni chredaf fod hynny wedi effeithio ar lefel y gwasanaeth. Fodd bynnag, byddai’n ddiddorol cael gwybod beth sy’n digwydd pan ewch ynghylch achosion tebyg yn Rhondda Cynon Taf; efallai y gallech ysgrifennu ataf am hynny.

Rhestrau Aros ac Amseroedd Aros

Waiting Lists and Waiting Times

C8 Ieuan Wyn Jones siaradwyd yn Gymraeg t. 20

Q8 Ieuan Wyn Jones spoken in Welsh p. 20

A wnaiff y Prif Weinidog ddatganiad am y rhestrau aros a’r amserau aros yn y GIG yng Nghymru ar hyn o bryd? (OAQ23798)

Will the First Minister make a statement on the current waiting lists and waiting times in the NHS in Wales? (OAQ23798)

Rhodri Morgan Y Prif Weinidog siaradwyd yn Gymraeg t. 20

Rhodri Morgan The First Minister spoken in Welsh p. 20

Ers mis Mehefin 2001, cafwyd gostyngiad o dros 2,300 yng nghyfanswm y cleifion sydd yn aros dros 18 mis am driniaeth orthopedig. Fis diwethaf, cafwyd gostyngiad o 30 y cant yn y nifer sydd yn aros dros bedwar mis a thros chwe mis am lawdriniaeth cataractau. O ran llawdrinaeth y galon, mae’r gwasanaeth yn parhau i gyflawni’r targed pwysig na fydd unrhyw glaf yn aros mwy na 12 mis, ac erbyn hyn, mae cyfanswm y bobl sydd yn aros ar ei isaf ers mis Chwefror 1999. Mae’r gwasanaeth yn symud tuag at sicrhau na fydd yn rhaid i unrhyw glaf aros mwy na chwe mis am archwiliad angiograffeg erbyn diwedd Mawrth 2003, sef ddoe. Nid yw’r ffigurau diweddaraf gennyf wrth law.

The number of patients waiting over 18 months for orthopaedic treatment has fallen by over 2,300 since June 2001. Numbers waiting over four months and over six months for cataract surgery fell by 30 per cent last month. In cardiac surgery, the service is sustaining the important target that no patient waits longer than 12 months, and the total number of people waiting is now at its lowest since February 1999. The service is on schedule to ensure that, by the end of March 2003, which was yesterday, no patient should have to wait for longer than six months for an angiography investigation. I do not have the most recent figures to hand.

Ieuan Wyn Jones siaradwyd yn Gymraeg t. 20

Ieuan Wyn Jones spoken in Welsh p. 20

Bu ichi gydnabod mewn ateb blaenorol fod nifer y bobl yng Nghymru sydd yn disgwyl dros chwe mis am apwyntiad i weld arbenigwr mewn ysbyty wedi codi o 21,000 yn 1999 i 76,000. Mae hynny’n gynnydd sylweddol ac yn fethiant trychinebus ar ran y Llywodraeth bresennol. Ni wnaethoch gyfeirio yn eich ateb at y methiant hwnnw. Oni chredwch mai’r ffordd i sicrhau gostyngiad yn nifer y bobl sydd ar y rhestrau aros yw drwy gael mwy o ddoctoriaid, nyrsus a gwelyau yn y gwasanaeth iechyd? Sut y gallwch gyfiawnhau gwario £15 miliwn ar aildrefnu ac ailstrwythuro’r gwasanaeth iechyd ar 1 Ebrill 2003? Ni fydd hynny ond yn creu mwy o swyddi i reolwyr. Sut y gallwch gyfiawnhau hynny yn wyneb eich record drychinebus?

You acknowledged in a previous reply that the number of people in Wales waiting over six months for an appointment to see a hospital specialist had increased from 21,000 in 1999 to 76,000. That is a substantial increase and a disastrous failure for this Government. You did not refer to that failure in your reply. Do you not think that the way to reduce the number of people on waiting lists is by having more doctors, nurses and beds in the health service? How can you justify spending £15 million on re-organising and restructuring the health service on 1 April 2003? That does nothing more than create more managerial posts. How do you justify that in view of your disastrous record?

Rhodri Morgan Y Prif Weinidog siaradwyd yn Gymraeg t. 21

Rhodri Morgan The First Minister spoken in Welsh p. 21

Yr ydym bellach yn symud yn y cyfeiriad iawn—tuag at i lawr. Mae nifer y bobl sydd yn aros dros chwe mis wedi disgyn 6,000 yn ystod y misoedd diwethaf. Mae nifer y bobl sydd yn aros dros 18 mis wedi disgyn dros 20 y cant i 11,700. Nid oes cysylltiad rhwng eich honiad â’n cynlluniau ar gyfer ailstrwythuro, sydd yn dechrau dod i rym heddiw. Yr ydych yn chwipio ceffyl sydd wedi hen drigo. Nid yw’r ailstrwythuro yn ymwneud â sut i recriwtio mwy o feddygon. Yr ydym yn gwneud hynny drwy gynyddu nifer y myfyrwyr yn ein hysgolion meddygol o bron i 90 y cant. Os am hyfforddi mwy o feddygon, mae’n rhaid darparu mwy o leoedd hyfforddi. Ni ellir dweud nad ydym wedi gwneud hynny—yr ydym bron â dyblu’r nifer sy’n mynychu ein hysgolion meddygol.

We are now moving in the right direction—downwards. The number of people waiting for more than six months has fallen by 6,000 over the last few months. The number of people waiting longer than 18 months has fallen by 20 per cent to 11,700. There is no link between your claim and our plans for restructuring, which will be implemented from today. You are flogging a dead horse. Restructuring has nothing to do with the way you recruit more doctors. We are doing that by increasing the number of students in our medical schools by almost 90 per cent. If you want to train more doctors, you must provide more training places. You cannot deny that we have done that—we have almost doubled the number entering our medical schools.

Glyn Davies spoken in English p. 21

Glyn Davies siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 21

In mid and north Wales, many people awaiting treatment at the Robert Jones and Agnes Hunt Hospital know that they would already have been treated if they lived in England. Your Government has recently announced extra money for orthopaedic treatment, but, as far as I can see, none of that money will come to mid or north Wales. Do you accept responsibility for the awful situation that exists in mid and north Wales, and that it typifies the achievements of this coalition Government?

Yn y Canolbarth a’r Gogledd, mae llawer sy’n disgwyl am driniaeth yn Ysbyty Robert Jones ac Agnes Hunt yn gwybod y byddent wedi cael eu trin eisoes os oeddent yn byw yn Lloegr. Gwnaeth eich Llywodraeth gyhoeddiad am arian ychwanegol ar gyfer triniaeth orthopedig yn ddiweddar, ond, hyd y gallaf weld, ni ddaw dim o’r arian hwnnw i’r Canolbarth neu’r Gogledd. A ydych yn derbyn cyfrifoldeb am y sefyllfa ofnadwy yn y Canolbarth a’r Gogledd, a’r ffaith ei bod yn nodweddiadol o gyflawniadau’r Llywodraeth glymblaid hon?

Rhodri Morgan The First Minister spoken in English p. 21

Rhodri Morgan Y Prif Weinidog siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 21

That is a wonderful hospital; I have visited it myself and know that it provides a superb service. However, I am not aware of any restrictions on the all-Wales money that we are providing, that would mean that it could not be spent on patients who wish to access the superb facilities at Gobowen.

Mae hwnnw’n ysbyty gwych; yr wyf wedi ymweld ag ef fy hun a gwn ei fod yn darparu gwasanaeth rhagorol. Fodd bynnag, ni wn am unrhyw gyfyngiadau ar yr arian i Gymru gyfan a ddarparwn, a olygai na ellid ei wario ar gleifion sy’n dymuno defnyddio’r cyfleusterau rhagorol yng Ngobowen.

Safleoedd Cyn-Lofeydd (Adfywio Economaidd)

Former Colliery Sites (Economic Regeneration)

Q9 Brian Hancock spoken in English p. 22

C9 Brian Hancock siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 22

What action has the First Minister taken to promote former colliery sites as economic regeneration sites? (OAQ23803)

Pa gamau y mae y Prif Weinidog wedi’u cymryd i hyrwyddo safleoedd cyn-lofeydd fel safleoedd adfywio economaidd? (OAQ23803)

Rhodri Morgan The First Minister spoken in English p. 22

Rhodri Morgan Y Prif Weinidog siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 22

There have been outstanding examples of economic regeneration on colliery sites. I am sure that you are familiar with the redevelopment of Oakdale colliery as a high-class business park. Some 400 people work there for General Dynamics UK Ltd, in software and engineering development—

Bu enghreifftiau rhagorol o adfywio economaidd ar safleoedd glofeydd. Yr wyf yn sicr eich bod yn gyfarwydd â’r ailddatblygu a fu yng nglofa Oakdale i’w throi’n barc busnes o safon uchel. Mae tua 400 o bobl yn gweithio yno i General Dynamics UK Cyf, ym maes meddalwedd a datblygu peirianegol—

Dafydd Elis-Thomas The Presiding Officer spoken in English p. 22

Dafydd Elis-Thomas Y Llywydd siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 22

Order. There seems to be a tremendous amount of chattering going on among Members today. The First Minister will be heard properly.

Trefn. Ymddengys fod llawer iawn o fân siarad ymysg Aelodau heddiw. Caiff y Prif Weinidog wrandawiad priodol.

Rhodri Morgan The First Minister spoken in English p. 22

Rhodri Morgan Y Prif Weinidog siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 22

Perhaps Members do not like hearing good news. The figure will increase to 600 people under current proposals from General Dynamics UK Ltd. That is an outstanding example of how to redevelop a coal mine. However, perhaps it takes a Canadian company, like General Dynamics UK Ltd, to see the potential in what others might see as an old coal mine. General Dynamics UK Ltd came along, saw the beautiful woodlands and hill scenery around Oakdale, and decided that this was the place to attract top scientists and engineers to crack a job. That had previously proved impossible when the Bowman contract was held by another company.

Efallai nad yw’r Aelodau’n hoffi clywed newyddion da. Bydd y ffigur yn codi i 600 o bobl dan y cynlluniau sydd gan General Dynamics UK Cyf ar hyn o bryd. Dyna enghraifft ragorol o’r modd i ailddatblygu glofa. Fodd bynnag, efallai mai dim ond cwmni o Ganada, fel General Dynamics UK Cyf, a allai weld y potensial yn yr hyn nad oedd yn ddim ond hen lofa yng ngolwg eraill. Daeth General Dynamics UK Cyf ar ei hynt, a gweld y coetiroedd a’r bryniau hyfryd o gwmpas Oakdale, a phenderfynu mai hwnnw oedd y lle i ddenu’r gwyddonwyr a’r peirianwyr gorau i gael y maen i’r wal. Yr oedd hynny wedi profi’n amhosibl o’r blaen pan oedd contract Bowman gan gwmni arall.

Brian Hancock spoken in English p. 22

Brian Hancock siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 22

I agree with you about the Oakdale site—it is a phoenix. However, the commitment that it has had to make is interesting. I have previously raised the question of other potential colliery sites, such as the Navigation Colliery site at Crumlin in the Ebbw valley. Navigation Colliery is on a main road—the A467—it has 100m of railtrack, plenty of space for a park and ride station, and is parallel to the main fibre optic spine. However, it is not considered for economic development use. Meanwhile, down the valley, another 50 jobs will be lost at Selectron. Bearing in mind that you have just said that a Canadian company is needed for that sort of initiative, are you concerned about these job losses? What will you do to bring further such innovation to Wales’s valleys?

Cytunaf â chi ynghylch safle Oakdale—mae wedi codi fel ffenics. Er hynny, mae’r ymrwymiad y bu’n rhaid iddo ymgymryd ag ef yn ddiddorol. Yr wyf wedi codi cwestiwn o’r blaen am safleoedd dichonol eraill mewn glofeydd, fel safle glofa’r Navigation yng Nghrymlyn yng nghwm Ebwy. Mae glofa’r Navigation ar y brif ffordd—yr A467—mae yno 100m o drac rheilffordd, a digon o le ar gyfer gorsaf parcio a theithio, ac mae’n gyfochrog â’r brif linell opteg ffeibr. Er hynny, nis ystyrir i’w ddefnyddio ar gyfer datblygu economaidd. Yn y cyfamser, i lawr y cwm, collir 50 arall o swyddi yn Selectron. Gan gofio eich bod newydd ddweud bod gofyn cael cwmni o Ganada ar gyfer menter o’r fath, a ydych yn bryderus am y colledion swyddi hyn? Beth a wnewch i ddod ag arloesi pellach o’r fath i gymoedd Cymru?

Rhodri Morgan The First Minister spoken in English p. 23

Rhodri Morgan Y Prif Weinidog siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 23

I was sorry to hear about the further job losses at Selectron following the end of mainframe manufacturing of telecommunications equipment there some two years ago. I am making further inquiries as to what has gone wrong with the new strategy of operating as more than just a manufacturing site—manufacturing work was, I believe, moved to a country with much lower wages, such as Hungary—because the company had a strategy for trying to surmount that problem. Far from losing further jobs at Selectron, the company’s strategy should have led to the creation of additional jobs. On the general principle that you mentioned about what we do with the Navigation Colliery site, I am not sure that you are right that it is being ignored. My information is that there is a proposal for a sustainable materials centre for that site, which will lead on timber technology. I understand that Caerphilly County Borough Council is the lead body in developing this project and will, in due course, seek funding from Objective 1, the Welsh Development Agency, and Cadw. It is currently preparing a brief for a consultant to develop a business plan for the project.

Yr oedd yn ddrwg gennyf glywed am y colledion swyddi pellach yn Selectron ar ôl rhoi’r gorau i gynhyrchu offer telathrebu drwy gymorth cyfrifiadur yno tua dwy flynedd yn ôl. Yr wyf yn gwneud ymholiadau pellach ynghylch yr hyn a aeth o’i le ar y strategaeth newydd o weithredu fel rhywbeth amgenach na safle gweithgynhyrchu—credaf fod y gweithgynhyrchu wedi’i symud i wlad arall lle y ceir cyflogau is o lawer, fel Hwngari—oherwydd yr oedd gan y cwmni strategaeth i geisio goresgyn y broblem honno. Yn hytrach na cholli swyddi pellach yn Selectron, dylai strategaeth y cwmni fod wedi arwain at greu swyddi ychwanegol. Ynghylch yr egwyddor gyffredinol y cyfeiriasoch ati am yr hyn a wnawn â safle glofa’r Navigation, nid wyf yn sicr eich bod yn iawn wrth ddweud ei fod yn cael ei anwybyddu. Y wybodaeth a gefais i yw bod cynllun ar gyfer canolfan defnyddiau cynaliadwy ar y safle hwnnw, a fydd yn arwain y ffordd mewn technoleg pren. Deallaf mai Cyngor Bwrdeistref Sirol Caerffili yw’r corff arweiniol yn y gwaith o ddatblygu’r prosiect hwn ac y bydd yn ceisio cyllid, gyda hyn, gan Amcan 1, Awdurdod Datblygu Cymru, a Cadw. Ar hyn o bryd, mae’n paratoi brîff i ymgynghorydd er mwyn datblygu cynllun busnes ar gyfer y prosiect.

Kirsty Williams spoken in English p. 23

Kirsty Williams siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 23

What plans do you have to regenerate parts of the upper Swansea valley in my constituency, which, in the past, relied heavily on coal mining? What support can you give to communities such as Cae Hopcyn, Coelbren and Abercrave, which hope to reclaim and regenerate tip sites into leisure areas for local people?

Pa gynlluniau sydd gennych i adfywio rhannau o gwm Tawe uchaf yn fy etholaeth i, a ddibynnai’n helaeth, yn y gorffennol, ar gloddio glo? Pa gymorth y gallwch ei roi i gymunedau fel Cae Hopcyn, Coelbren ac Aber-craf, sy’n gobeithio adfer ac ailfywio safleoedd tomennydd yn fannau hamdden i bobl leol?

Rhodri Morgan The First Minister spoken in English p. 23

Rhodri Morgan Y Prif Weinidog siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 23

The last deep mine in that area, Ynysgedwyn, closed in 1966, if I am right—before you were born, I believe, Kirsty. However, opencast mining continues in that area; it is one of the major industries at the top end of the Swansea valley. When I last visited that area—not your side of the constituency boundary, but Gwenda Thomas’s side—we looked at some regeneration proposals for old waste tips left behind by either the deep mines or, more likely, by opencast mines in the 1970s and 1980s. We considered their use for quad biking and mountain biking trails. Local teenagers and police were interested in developing their own project for that unique landscape, making it perhaps not quite as stark as it is today, but utilising it in a way that would give teenagers something constructive to do with their surplus energy.

Caeodd y lofa dan ddaear olaf yn yr ardal honno, Ynysgedwyn, yn 1966, os cofiaf yn iawn—cyn eich geni chi, yr wyf yn meddwl, Kirsty. Fodd bynnag, ceir cloddio glo brig o hyd yn yr ardal honno; dyna un o’r prif ddiwydiannau ym mhen uchaf cwm Tawe. Pan ymwelais â’r ardal honno ddiwethaf—nid ar eich ochr chi i ffin yr etholaeth, ond ar ochr Gwenda Thomas—gwnaethom ystyried cynlluniau adfywio ar gyfer hen domennydd gwastraff a adawyd un ai gan y glofeydd dan ddaear neu, yn fwy tebygol, gan y gweithfeydd glo brig yn y 1970au a’r 1980au. Gwnaethom ystyried eu defnyddio ar gyfer llwybrau i feiciau modur pedair olwyn a beiciau mynydd. Ymddiddorai rhai lleol yn eu harddegau a’r heddlu mewn datblygu eu prosiect eu hun ar gyfer y tirlun unigryw hwnnw, a barai na fyddai mor noethlwm ag ydyw heddiw, o bosibl, ac a’i defnyddiai mewn modd a gynigiai rywbeth adeiladol i’w wneud i rai yn eu harddegau a chanddynt egni dros ben.

Gwasanaethau Brys yng Nghymru

Emergency Services in Wales

Q10 Ann Jones spoken in English p. 24

C10 Ann Jones siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 24

Will the First Minister make a statement on the readiness of the emergency services in Wales to deal with the effects of a possible terror attack? (OAQ23789)

A wnaiff y Prif Weinidog ddatganiad ynghylch pa mor barod yw’r gwasanaethau brys yng Nghymru i ddelio ag effeithiau posibl ymosodiad gan frawychwyr? (OAQ23789)

Rhodri Morgan The First Minister spoken in English p. 24

Rhodri Morgan Y Prif Weinidog siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 24

The emergency services work closely together through the four joint agency groups in Wales to develop their capability to respond effectively to any major emergencies in their areas. This includes work relating to potential terrorist incidents where existing structures and procedures have been built upon to develop preparedness. You will be aware that there has been reference in the public domain to a major exercise that will take place later this year to test preparedness in north Wales.

Mae’r gwasanaethau brys yn cydweithio’n agos drwy’r pedwar grŵp asiantaethau ar y cyd yng Nghymru i ddatblygu eu gallu i ymateb yn effeithiol i unrhyw argyfyngau mawr yn eu hardal. Mae hyn yn cynnwys gwaith sy’n ymwneud â digwyddiadau terfysgol dichonol lle y datblygwyd y strwythurau a’r gweithdrefnau presennol i fod yn fwy parod. Byddwch yn ymwybodol bod cyfeiriad wedi bod yn y maes cyhoeddus at ymarfer mawr a fydd yn digwydd yn ddiweddarach eleni i roi prawf ar barodrwydd yn y Gogledd.

Ann Jones spoken in English p. 24

Ann Jones siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 24

Emergency services in Wales are among the finest, and we should congratulate them on their preparedness for any possible additional work that they may have to undertake. Will you pay particular attention to the coastguard service to ensure that it is not left out of any major emergency plans that may be formed with other emergency services so that our ports are also protected?

Mae’r gwasanaethau brys yng Nghymru ymysg y goreuon, a dylem eu llongyfarch ar eu parodrwydd ar gyfer unrhyw waith ychwanegol posibl y gallent orfod ei gyflawni. A wnewch roi sylw penodol i wasanaeth gwylwyr y glannau i sicrhau na chaiff ei hepgor o unrhyw gynlluniau brys pwysig y gellir eu llunio gyda gwasanaethau brys eraill fel y caiff ein porthladdoedd eu hamddiffyn hefyd?

Rhodri Morgan The First Minister spoken in English p. 24

Rhodri Morgan Y Prif Weinidog siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 24

We too easily assume, perhaps, that the emergency services only include the fire service, the police and the ambulance service. There are other uniformed services, such as the coastguard service, which are also important.

Efallai ein bod yn rhy barod i dybio mai dim ond y gwasanaeth tân, yr heddlu a’r gwasanaeth ambiwlans yw’r gwasanaethau brys. Mae gwasanaethau lifreiog eraill, fel gwasanaeth gwylwyr y glannau, sydd hefyd yn bwysig.

David Lloyd siaradwyd yn Gymraeg t. 25

David Lloyd spoken in Welsh p. 25

A allwch gadarnhau bod y deunydd angenrheidiol ar gael ar lawr gwlad i’n gwasanaethau brys allu ymateb i ymosodiad terfysgol?

Can you confirm that the necessary equipment is available at grass-roots level to enable our emergency services to respond to a terrorist attack?

Rhodri Morgan Y Prif Weinidog siaradwyd yn Gymraeg t. 25

Rhodri Morgan The First Minister spoken in Welsh p. 25

Mae’n bosibl paratoi, gwella paratoadau a darparu hyfforddiant o bryd i’w gilydd i sicrhau bod y cynlluniau sy’n bodoli yn ddigon cryf i ddelio â’r bygythiad terfysgol diweddaraf. Dyna pam y mae’n rhaid inni gynnal ymarferion o bryd i’w gilydd, fel yn y Gogledd yn ystod yr haf.

You can prepare, improve preparations and provide training occasionally to ensure that existing schemes are robust enough to deal with the latest terrorist threat. That is why we must carry out exercises occasionally, as in north Wales during the summer.

David Ian Jones spoken in English p. 25

David Ian Jones siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 25

You are no doubt aware that a train carrying nuclear material travels weekly along the north Wales coast from Wylfa to Sellafield and back. Do you not agree that an attack on that train would place an intolerable burden on the emergency services in north Wales? Do you not agree also that, in the current international climate, it would be sensible for that train shipment to be stopped?

Mae’n sicr y gwyddoch fod trên sy’n cludo defnyddiau niwclear yn teithio bob wythnos ar hyd arfordir y Gogledd o’r Wylfa i Sellafield ac yn ôl. Oni chytunwch y byddai ymosodiad ar y trên hwnnw’n rhoi’r gwasanaethau brys yn y Gogledd dan faich annioddefol? Oni chytunwch hefyd mai synhwyrol, yn yr hinsawdd ryngwladol sydd ohoni, fyddai rhoi’r gorau i anfon y llwyth hwnnw ar drên?

Rhodri Morgan The First Minister spoken in English p. 25

Rhodri Morgan Y Prif Weinidog siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 25

If it were stopped, an alternative route to the reprocessing facility at Sellafield would have to be found. I would guess that an analysis has been carried out as to whether a marine route could be used to take the material safely and directly from Wylfa to Sellafield and that a decision has been taken that that is not feasible or not as safe as using the railways. Trains are considered to be just about the safest means of transporting dangerous or flammable materials because there are far fewer opportunities for uncontrolled crossing with other vehicles on the railways. They do not work perfectly at all times, but on any statistical basis, trains are the safest means of transport. I presume that that is why they use the railways, but I will write to the Member on that point.

Pe rhoddid y gorau i hynny, byddai’n rhaid dod o hyd i ffordd arall i gyrraedd y cyfleuster ailbrosesu yn Sellafield. Tybiwn fod dadansoddiad wedi’i wneud i ganfod a ellid defnyddio llwybr ar y môr i fynd â’r deunydd yn ddiogel ac yn uniongyrchol o’r Wylfa i Sellafield a bod penderfyniad wedi’i wneud i’r perwyl nad yw’n ymarferol neu nad yw mor ddiogel â defnyddio’r rheilffyrdd. Bernir mai trenau yw’r modd mwyaf diogel bron i gludo defnyddiau peryglus neu fflamadwy gan fod llai o lawer o gyfleoedd i groesi’r rheilffyrdd mewn cerbydau eraill heb reolaeth. Nid ydynt yn gweithio’n berffaith bob amser ond, ar unrhyw sail ystadegol, trenau yw’r dull cludo mwyaf diogel. Cymeraf mai dyna pam y defnyddiant y rheilffyrdd, ond gwnaf ysgrifennu at yr Aelod ar y pwynt hwnnw.

Sgîl-effeithiau Argyfwng Irac

Side Effects of the Iraq Crisis

C11 Dafydd Wigley siaradwyd yn Gymraeg t. 25

Q11 Dafydd Wigley spoken in Welsh p. 25

Beth yw asesiad y Prif Weinidog o’r sgîl-effeithiau ar wasanaethau cyhoeddus yng Nghymru a fydd yn deillio o’r argyfwng gydag Irac? (OAQ23800)

Will the First Minister make a statement on the side effects to public services in Wales as a result of the Iraq crisis? (OAQ23800)

Rhodri Morgan Y Prif Weinidog siaradwyd yn Gymraeg t. 26

Rhodri Morgan The First Minister spoken in Welsh p. 26

Nid oes unrhyw dystiolaeth ar hyn o bryd sy’n dangos y bydd y rhyfel yn dod yn fater o arwyddocâd domestig yng Nghymru. Mae’r holl wasanaethau cyhoeddus yn parhau i ddatblygu cynlluniau ar gyfer parhau i gyflawni eu swyddogaethau angenrheidiol yn wyneb unrhyw her a fydd yn effeithio arnynt. Yn gyffredinol, nid yw’r rhyfel yn gosod unrhyw her newydd i’r cynlluniau a wnaethpwyd eisoes a’r ffordd y darperir gwasanaethau cyhoeddus yng Nghymru.

There is no evidence at present that indicates that the war will become an issue of domestic significance in Wales. All public services continue to develop plans for the continuation of their critical business functions in the face of any disruptive challenge. Generally, the war does not present any new challenges to the plans that have already been put in place and the way that public services are provided in Wales.

Dafydd Wigley siaradwyd yn Gymraeg t. 26

Dafydd Wigley spoken in Welsh p. 26

Gan dderbyn eich ateb, dyma’r cyfle olaf sydd gennych i fod yn agored gyda phobl Cymru. A wnewch ddatgan a oeddech yn cefnogi mynd i ryfel gydag Irac heb fandad y Cenhedloedd Unedig?

While accepting your answer, this is your final opportunity to be open with the people of Wales. Will you state whether you supported going to war with Iraq without a United Nations mandate?

Rhodri Morgan Y Prif Weinidog siaradwyd yn Gymraeg t. 26

Rhodri Morgan The First Minister spoken in Welsh p. 26

Bûm yn agored eisoes, ond dywedaf eto fy mod yn cefnogi penderfyniad y Prif Weinidog i roi’r hawl i’r Senedd bleidleisio o blaid neu yn erbyn bwriad y Llywodraeth. Mae’r materion hynny yn berthnasol i’r Senedd a dylid cynnal pleidleisiau arnynt yno, er na chafwyd pleidlais hyd dair wythnos yn ôl. Yr wyf yn falch i’r Prif Weinidog wneud y newid cyfansoddiadol hanesyddol hwnnw i roi’r hawl i’r Senedd bleidleisio ar y materion hyn am y tro cyntaf. Wedi i’r Senedd bleidleisio, nid oedd angen i unrhyw un arall fynegi barn na phleidleisio.

I have already been open, but I repeat that I support the Prime Minister’s decision to give Parliament the right to vote for or against the Government’s proposed course of action. Those issues are relevant to Parliament and should be voted upon there, although a vote was not held until three weeks ago. I am pleased that the Prime Minister made that historic constitutional change to give Parliament the right to vote on these issues for the first time. Once Parliament had voted, there was no need for anyone else to express an opinion or take a vote.

Datganiad Busnes

Business Statement

Carwyn Jones The Business Minister spoken in English p. 26

Carwyn Jones Y Trefnydd siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 26

There are two changes to this week’s business. Later today, I will be proposing, with your agreement, Llywydd, the suspension of Standing Orders under Standing Order No. 34.5 to propose a motion without notice to enable us to continue last week’s debate on sustainable development, which unfortunately lapsed due to the pressure of business. If the Assembly endorses that proposition, I propose that 20 minutes be allowed for the debate immediately following the debate on the national homelessness strategy. I will also be requesting the suspension of Standing Orders tomorrow under Standing Order No. 34.4 to enable the Assembly to consider the National Assistance (Deferred Payments) Directions 2003. The Deputy Presiding Officer has determined that, under Standing Order No. 22.5, the following items of subordinate legislation need not be referred to a Subject Committee for extended consideration: the Fish Labelling (Wales) Regulations 2003 and the Adoption of Children from Overseas (Wales) (Amendment) Regulations 2003.

Mae dau newid i fusnes yr wythnos hon. Yn ddiweddarach heddiw, byddaf yn rhoi cynnig gerbron, gyda’ch cytundeb chi, Lywydd, i atal Rheolau Sefydlog o dan Reol Sefydlog Rhif 34.5 er mwyn rhoi cynnig heb rybudd gerbron i’n galluogi i barhau â’r ddadl a gafwyd yr wythnos diwethaf ar ddatblygu cynaliadwy, a ballodd, gwaetha’r modd, oherwydd pwysau busnes. Os bydd y Cynulliad yn cymeradwyo’r bwriad hwnnw, cynigiaf y dylid caniatáu 20 munud ar gyfer y ddadl yn union ar ôl y ddadl ar y strategaeth ddigartrefedd genedlaethol. Byddaf hefyd yn gofyn am atal Rheolau Sefydlog yfory o dan Reol Sefydlog Rhif 34.4 i alluogi’r Cynulliad i ystyried Cyfarwyddiadau Cymorth Gwladol (Taliadau Gohiriedig) 2003. Mae’r Dirprwy Lywydd wedi penderfynu, o dan Reol Sefydlog Rhif 22.5, nad oes angen cyfeirio’r eitemau is-ddeddfwriaeth a ganlyn i Bwyllgor Pwnc i’w hystyried yn helaethach: Rheoliadau Labelu Pysgod (Cymru) 2003 a Rheoliadau Mabwysiadu Plant o Wledydd Tramor (Cymru) (Diwygio) 2003.

Dafydd Elis-Thomas Y Llywydd siaradwyd yn Gymraeg t. 27

Dafydd Elis-Thomas The Presiding Officer spoken in Welsh p. 27

A oes unrhyw wrthwynebiad i’r datganiad busnes? Gwelaf nad oes. A oes sylwadau perthnasol?

Are there any objections to the business statement? I see that there are not. Are there any pertinent comments?

Cynog Dafis siaradwyd yn Gymraeg t. 27

Cynog Dafis spoken in Welsh p. 27

Byddaf yn codi pwynt o drefn ar y mater hwn yn nes ymlaen, ond hoffwn ailddatgan fy nghais i’r Gweinidog dros Addysg a Dysgu Gydol Oes wneud datganiad yfory—y cyfle olaf cyn y toriad—am Gyd-bwyllgor Addysg Cymru a’r ffaith bod yn rhaid iddo ad-dalu £1.5 miliwn i’r Comisiwn Ewropeaidd.

I will raise a point of order on this matter later, but I wish to reiterate my request for the Minister for Education and Lifelong Learning to make a statement tomorrow—the last chance before the recess—on the Welsh Joint Education Committee and the fact that it has to reimburse the European Commission to the tune of £1.5 million.

Jonathan Morgan spoken in English p. 27

Jonathan Morgan siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 27

The Welsh Conservatives reiterate our call for a debate on Education and Learning Wales. We have been requesting this from the Business Minister for several weeks; we also made a request to the Minister for Education and Lifelong Learning, yet no debate is forthcoming. Tomorrow’s final Chamber session prior to the election should be used to debate the serious concerns relating to ELWa and the serious issues raised in the Auditor General for Wales’s report, of which I have a copy, as do colleagues in Plaid Cymru. [ASSEMBLY MEMBERS: ‘Oh.’]

Mae Ceidwadwyr Cymru yn ailddatgan ein galwad am ddadl ar Dysgu ac Addysgu Cymru. Yr ydym yn gofyn am hyn gan y Trefnydd ers sawl wythnos; gwnaethom gais hefyd i’r Gweinidog dros Addysg a Dysgu Gydol Oes, ac eto ni cheir dadl. Dylid defnyddio’r sesiwn olaf cyn yr etholiad yn y Siambr yfory i gael dadl ar y pryderon dybryd ynghylch ELWa a’r materion difrifol a godwyd yn adroddiad Archwilydd Cenedlaethol Cymru, y mae gennyf fi gopi ohono, fel y mae gan gyd-Aelodau ym Mhlaid Cymru. [AELODAU’R CYNULLIAD: ‘O.’]

That report raises serious concerns about the accountability of ELWa’s chair and chief executive, as well as the Minister’s role. These people are responsible for the administration of large sums of public money and hold many posts in Welsh quangos—a situation that the First Minister attacked on many occasions when he was a Member of Parliament. How can we have confidence in these people to run public administrations in Wales when the Government does not have the confidence to hold a debate on the matter in the Chamber? The Welsh Assembly Government has not done its job properly in holding these people to account, and I urge the Government to hold a debate tomorrow.

Mae’r adroddiad hwnnw’n codi pryderon dybryd ynghylch atebolrwydd cadeirydd a phrif weithredwr ELWa, yn ogystal â rôl y Gweinidog. Mae’r bobl hyn yn gyfrifol am weinyddu symiau mawr o arian cyhoeddus ac yn dal llawer o swyddi mewn cwangos yng Nghymru—sy’n sefyllfa y gwnaeth y Prif Weinidog ei beirniadu lawer gwaith pan oedd yn Aelod Seneddol. Sut y gallwn ymddiried yn y bobl hyn i redeg gweinyddiaethau cyhoeddus yng Nghymru os nad oes gan y Llywodraeth ddigon o hyder i gynnal dadl ar y mater yn y Siambr? Nid yw Llywodraeth Cynulliad Cymru wedi gwneud ei gwaith yn iawn o ran galw’r bobl hyn i gyfrif, a phwysaf ar y Llywodraeth i gynnal dadl yfory.

Dafydd Elis-Thomas The Presiding Officer spoken in English p. 28

Dafydd Elis-Thomas Y Llywydd siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 28

Order. Before I invite the Business Minister to respond to those comments on the business statement, I wish to emphasise that it is inappropriate to refer to confidential documents that may have been disclosed in an unauthorised manner, especially when they relate to Assembly proceedings and may strictly be in the ownership of the Assembly or one of its Committees.

Trefn. Cyn imi wahodd y Trefnydd i ymateb i’r sylwadau hynny am y datganiad busnes, dymunaf bwysleisio mai amhriodol yw cyfeirio at ddogfennau cyfrinachol a ddatgelwyd heb ganiatâd, yn enwedig os ydynt yn ymwneud â thrafodion y Cynulliad ac yn eiddo, a bod yn fanwl gywir, i’r Cynulliad neu i un o’i Bwyllgorau.

Carwyn Jones Y Trefnydd siaradwyd yn Gymraeg ac yn Saesneg t. 28

Carwyn Jones The Business Minister spoken in Welsh and English p. 28

O ran pwynt Cynog am y datganiad busnes, nid yw Cyd-bwyllgor Addysg Cymru yn atebol i ni, ond i lywodraeth leol yng Nghymru. Llywodraeth leol ddylai gyhoeddi unrhyw ddatganiad.

in Welsh On Cynog’s point about the business statement, the Welsh Joint Education Committee is not accountable to us but rather to local government in Wales. Local government should make any statement.

Turning to the matter raised by Jonathan Morgan, I will not comment on any document that has been obtained improperly, in breach of confidence or in a flagrant act of discourtesy to the Audit Committee and its Chair.

yn Saesneg Gan droi at y mater a gododd Jonathan Morgan, ni wnaf sylw am unrhyw ddogfen a gafwyd yn amhriodol, drwy dor-cyfrinachedd neu drwy weithred o anghwrteisi dybryd yn erbyn y Pwyllgor Archwilio a’i Gadeirydd.

Pwynt o Drefn

Point of Order

Cynog Dafis siaradwyd yn Gymraeg t. 28

Cynog Dafis spoken in Welsh p. 28

Pwynt o drefn.

Point of order.

Dafydd Elis-Thomas Y Llywydd siaradwyd yn Gymraeg t. 28

Dafydd Elis-Thomas The Presiding Officer spoken in Welsh p. 28

Trefn. Dylid codi pwyntiau o drefn ar ôl y datganiadau fel arfer, ond os yw’n berthnasol yn awr, fe’i caniatâf.

Order. Points of order should usually be raised after statements, but if it is relevant now, I will allow it.

Cynog Dafis siaradwyd yn Gymraeg t. 28

Cynog Dafis spoken in Welsh p. 28

Y mae’n berthnasol i ateb Carwyn Jones i’m sylwadau ar y datganiad busnes. Codaf y pwynt o drefn hwn o dan Reol Sefydlog Rhif 2.7, ynghylch cyfrifoldeb Gweinidogion.

It is relevant to Carwyn Jones’s answer to my comments on the business statement. I raise this point of order under Standing Order No. 2.7, concerning ministerial responsibility.

Gwneuthum gais yr wythnos diwethaf am ddatganiad gan y Gweinidog dros Addysg a Dysgu Gydol Oes ynghylch adroddiad y bydd yn rhaid i Gyd-bwyllgor Addysg Cymru ad-dalu £1.5 miliwn i Gomisiwn Ewrop oherwydd diffygion yn ei uned Ewropeaidd. Gwrthododd Carwyn Jones fy nghais ar y sail nad yw CBAC yn gorff cyhoeddus a noddir gan y Cynulliad.

Last week, I requested a statement from the Minister for Education and Lifelong Learning regarding a report that the Welsh Joint Education Committee will have to repay £1.5 million to the European Commission, because of discrepancies in its European unit. Carwyn Jones rejected my request on the basis that the WJEC is not an Assembly sponsored public body.

Mae CBAC yn gorff unigryw a sefydlwyd drwy statud yn y 1940au. Mae ei statws wedi newid yn sylfaenol ers Deddf Addysg 1993, ond CBAC yw ein corff arholi cenedlaethol ac y mae’n anodd gweld sut y gellid cynnal ein system arholiadau cyhoeddus hebddo nac, yn wir, sut y gellid cyflwyno’r Cwricwlwm Cymreig, sef yr agweddau Cymreig ar y cwricwlwm cenedlaethol. Y mae’n gorff allweddol sy’n greiddiol i gyfundrefn addysg y Gweinidog. Mae’n anghyfrifol iddi hi, neu’r Trefnydd, olchi eu dwylo o hyn.

The WJEC is an unique body, set up by statute in the 1940s. Its status was changed fundamentally by the Education Act 1993, but the WJEC is our national examining board and it is difficult to comprehend how we can sustain our public examinations system without it or, indeed, how we can deliver the Curriculum Cymreig, that is, the Welsh aspects of the national curriculum. It is a key body central to the Minister’s education system. It is irresponsible of her, or the Business Minister, to wash their hands of this.

Gofynnaf, Lywydd, i chi ddyfarnu. A fyddai’n briodol mynnu i’r Gweinidog wneud datganiad ar effaith y digwyddiadau diweddar a adroddir ar iechyd ariannol CBAC?

Presiding Officer, I ask you to rule. Is it appropriate to insist that the Minister make a statement on the effect of recent reported events concerning the financial wellbeing of the WJEC?

Dafydd Elis-Thomas Y Llywydd siaradwyd yn Gymraeg t. 29

Dafydd Elis-Thomas The Presiding Officer spoken in Welsh p. 29

Diolch am y pwynt o drefn hwnnw ac am godi’r mater â mi yn flaenorol. Hyd y gwelaf, mater i Weinidogion yw penderfynu, yn wirfoddol neu o dan bwysau, wneud datganiad i’r Cynulliad neu i Bwyllgor ar unrhyw fater. Fodd bynnag, nid oes amheuaeth ei bod yn briodol i’r Cynulliad drafod Cyd-bwyllgor Addysg Cymru, sy’n gorff cenedlaethol o bwys ac y mae ei ddyfodol yn fater sy’n effeithio ar Gymru. Mae adran 33 Deddf Llywodraeth Cymru 1998 yn ein galluogi i drafod a chyflwyno sylwadau ar unrhyw fater sy’n effeithio ar Gymru.

Thank you for that point of order and for raising the matter with me previously. As far as I can see, it is for Ministers to decide, voluntarily or under pressure, whether to make a statement to the Assembly or to Committee on any matter. However, there is no doubt that it is appropriate for the Assembly to discuss the Welsh Joint Education Committee, which is an important national body and whose future is a matter that affects Wales. Section 33 of the Government of Wales Act 1998 enables us to consider and make representations on any matter that affects Wales.

Cynog Dafis siaradwyd yn Gymraeg t. 29

Cynog Dafis spoken in Welsh p. 29

Ymhellach i’r pwynt o drefn hwnnw, a chyda phob parch, nid yw’r Trefnydd ar dir cadarn, felly, pan awgryma nad yw’n briodol gwneud datganiad ar CBAC am nad yw’n gorff cyhoeddus a noddir gan y Cynulliad. Nid oes a wnelo hynny ddim â’r mater.

Further to that point of order, and with all due respect, the Business Minister is not on firm ground, therefore, in suggesting that it is not appropriate to make a statement on the WJEC on the grounds that it is not an Assembly sponsored public body. That has nothing to do with it.

Dafydd Elis-Thomas Y Llywydd siaradwyd yn Gymraeg t. 29

Dafydd Elis-Thomas The Presiding Officer spoken in Welsh p. 29

Nid dyna’n union a ddywedais, fel y gwelwch os darllenwch y Cofnod yfory. Yr hyn a ddywedais oedd mai mater i Weinidogion yw penderfynu, yn eu doethineb ac wrth weithredu eu cyfrifoldebau, ar ba faterion y gwnânt ddatganiadau os yw’r mater o fewn eu cylch gorchwyl. Yn amlwg, pe byddai dadl ar faterion yn ymwneud â’r cyd-bwyllgor addysg wedi’i threfnu yn y Cynulliad hwn, neu os caiff un ei threfnu yn y Cynulliad nesaf, byddai hynny mewn trefn a byddwn yn tybio y byddai’r Gweinidog â chyfrifoldeb yn dymuno ateb y ddadl.

That is not exactly what I said, as you will see if you read the Record tomorrow. What I said was that it is a matter for Ministers to decide, in their wisdom and in executing their responsibilities, on which matters they make statements if the matter is within their remit. Obviously, had a debate on matters involving the WJEC been arranged in this Assembly, or if such a debate is arranged in the next Assembly, that would be in order, and I would assume that the Minister responsible would want to respond to the debate.

Datganiad ar Sefydlu Tribiwnlys Anabledd ac Anghenion Addysgol Arbennig ar gyfer Cymru

Statement on the Establishment of a Disability and Special Educational Needs Tribunal for Wales

Jane Davidson The Minister for Education and Lifelong Learning spoken in English p. 30

Jane Davidson Y Gweinidog dros Addysg a Dysgu Gydol Oes siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 30

In ‘The Learning Country’ I first expressed my intention to develop for Wales a distinct special educational needs tribunal. The Education Act 2002 amends the Education Act 1996 to allow for the establishment of a special educational needs tribunal for Wales—tribiwnlys anghenion addysgol arbennig Cymru.

Yn ‘Y Wlad sy’n Dysgu’ y mynegais gyntaf fy mwriad i ddatblygu tribiwnlys anghenion addysgol arbennig ar wahân i Gymru. Mae Deddf Addysg 2002 yn diwygio Deddf Addysg 1996 er mwyn caniatáu sefydlu tribiwnlys anghenion addysgol arbennig i Gymru.

The current tribunal, which operates on an England and Wales basis, was established in 1993 and, last year, under provisions in the Special Educational Needs and Disability Act 2002, was reconstituted to become the SEN and disability tribunal. Under existing arrangements, the Assembly Government makes a contribution to the programme and running costs of the England and Wales tribunal.

Sefydlwyd y tribiwnlys presennol, sy’n gweithredu ledled Cymru a Lloegr, yn 1993 ac, y llynedd, o dan ddarpariaethau yn Neddf Anghenion Addysgol Arbennig ac Anabledd 2002, fe’i hailgyfansoddwyd yn dribiwnlys anghenion addysgol arbennig ac anabledd. O dan y trefniadau presennol, mae Llywodraeth y Cynulliad yn cyfrannu at y rhaglen ac at gostau rhedeg y tribiwnlys i Gymru a Lloegr.

I am pleased today to acknowledge the important role that the existing England and Wales tribunal has played since its inception. Parental recourse to appeal against local authority decisions about assessment, provision and delivery of education for children with SEN is an important right. It certainly sits easily with the Assembly Government’s policies of focusing on parental and pupil inclusion in the decision-making processes that affect pupils.

Yr wyf yn falch heddiw o gydnabod y rôl bwysig a chwaraeodd y tribiwnlys presennol dros Gymru a Lloegr ers ei sefydlu. Mae’r hawl sydd gan rieni i apelio yn erbyn penderfyniadau gan awdurdodau lleol am asesu, darparu a chyflwyno addysg i blant ag anghenion addysgol arbennig yn un pwysig. Mae’n sicr yn cydweddu â pholisïau Llywodraeth y Cynulliad o ganolbwyntio ar gynnwys rhieni a disgyblion yn y prosesau penderfynu sy’n effeithio ar ddisgyblion.

Much, though, has changed since 1993. Establishing the National Assembly for Wales and the consequent devolution of educational matters to the Assembly Government—including, of course, special educational needs—is a prime example. It befits a modern, post-devolution Wales to have institutions that reflect the particular needs, conditions and aspirations of the country.

Er hynny, bu llawer o newid er 1993. Mae sefydlu Cynulliad Cenedlaethol Cymru a’r datganoli ar faterion addysgol i Lywodraeth y Cynulliad o ganlyniad i hynny—gan gynnwys anghenion addysgol arbennig, wrth gwrs—yn enghraifft ragorol. Mae’n briodol i Gymru fodern ar ôl datganoli feddu ar sefydliadau sy’n adlewyrchu anghenion, amodau a dyheadau neilltuol y wlad.

Since April 2002, Wales has, for the first time, had its own distinctive special educational needs code of practice. The code gives guidance on the assessment of, and provision for, special educational needs. Local education authorities and schools must have regard to the code and, where there have been departures from it, parents may appeal to the tribunal. Before making an appeal, however, we would expect parents to have been offered an opportunity to avail themselves of the authority’s disagreement resolution service, as set out in the code of practice. This neutral service aims to avoid the polarisation of positions. Using it does not, of course, preclude parents from making an appeal to the tribunal. The SEN code of practice for Wales is distinct from the code in England and, to cater for these differences and possible further incremental divergence in the future, it seems entirely logical to establish a separate and distinct tribunal.

Ers Ebrill 2002, mae gan Gymru, am y tro cyntaf, ei chod ymarfer neilltuol ei hun ar gyfer anghenion addysgol arbennig. Mae’r cod yn rhoi arweiniad ar asesu anghenion addysgol arbennig a’r ddarpariaeth ar eu cyfer. Rhaid i awdurdodau addysg lleol ac ysgolion gymryd sylw o’r cod ac, os gweithredwyd yn groes iddo, gall rhieni apelio i’r tribiwnlys. Cyn cyflwyno apêl, fodd bynnag, byddem yn disgwyl i rieni fod wedi cael cyfle i ddefnyddio gwasanaeth datrys anghydfodau’r awdurdod, fel y nodir yn y cod ymarfer. Mae’r gwasanaeth amhleidiol hwn yn ceisio osgoi unrhyw begynu ar safbwyntiau. Wrth gwrs, nid yw ei ddefnyddio’n golygu na chaiff rhieni gyflwyno apêl i’r tribiwnlys. Mae’r cod ymarfer anghenion addysgol arbennig i Gymru’n wahanol i’r un ar gyfer Lloegr ac, er mwyn darparu ar gyfer y gwahaniaethau hyn a’r posibilrwydd y byddant yn graddol ymwahanu ymhellach yn y dyfodol, mae’n ymddangos yn gwbl resymegol y dylid sefydlu tribiwnlys neilltuol ac ar wahân.

The Welsh tribunal is to be established from today, 1 April, with its administrative headquarters in Llandrindod Wells. It will consider appeals from 1 September and will hear them in locations across Wales within prescribed timescales. The first appeals are likely to be heard in December. Under interim arrangements, the existing SENDIST will continue to hear appeals received before 1 September. In the case of disability, which is not a devolved function, the Welsh tribunal will hear such appeals against perceived discrimination on the basis of disability under licence. It will, therefore, need to do so against England and Wales criteria.

Mae tribiwnlys Cymru i’w sefydlu o heddiw, 1 Ebrill, gyda’i bencadlys gweinyddol yn Llandrindod. Bydd yn ystyried apelau o 1 Medi ymlaen a caiff gwrandawiadau eu cynnal mewn lleoliadau ledled Cymru o fewn cyfnodau penodedig. Mae’r apelau cyntaf yn debygol o gael gwrandawiad yn Rhagfyr. O dan drefniadau interim, bydd y tribiwnlys anghenion addysgol arbennig ac anabledd presennol yn dal i wrando apelau a ddaeth i law cyn 1 Medi. Yn achos anabledd, nad yw’n swyddogaeth a ddatganolwyd, bydd tribiwnlys Cymru’n gwrando apelau yn erbyn gwahaniaethu canfyddedig ar sail anabledd o dan drwydded. Gan hynny, bydd yn rhaid iddo wneud hynny yn ôl meini prawf ar gyfer Cymru a Lloegr.

I should stress that although its operation will be funded wholly by the Assembly, the decisions reached by the tribunal will continue to be independent of Government. The current regulations covering the operation of the tribunal took account of the future establishment of the Wales tribunal and will, in the first instance at least, govern the appeals processes for both tribunals. I am awaiting information from the Lord Chancellor’s department about the outcomes of recent interviews to appoint a fee-paid, part-time president for the tribunal. The secretariat of the tribunal will remain a civil service function, and I understand that appointments will be made shortly.

Dylwn bwysleisio, er y bydd y Cynulliad yn cyllido ei weithrediad yn llawn, y bydd y penderfyniadau a wnaiff y tribiwnlys yn dal i fod yn annibynnol ar Lywodraeth. Bu i’r rheoliadau presennol sy’n ymdrin â gweithrediad y tribiwnlys ystyried bod tribiwnlys ar gyfer Cymru i’w sefydlu, a’r rhain, yn y lle cyntaf o leiaf, a fydd yn rheoli’r prosesau apêl ar gyfer y ddau dribiwnlys. Yr wyf yn disgwyl cael gwybodaeth oddi wrth adran yr Arglwydd Ganghellor am ganlyniadau cyfweliadau diweddar i benodi llywydd rhan-amser, a delir drwy ffioedd, ar gyfer y tribiwnlys. Bydd ysgrifenyddiaeth y tribiwnlys yn swyddogaeth i’r gwasanaeth sifil o hyd, a deallaf y gwneir penodiadau cyn bo hir.

Once it is staffed, the tribunal will have an important opportunity to establish user-groups to ensure that the needs of all stakeholders, be they parents, pupils, local education authorities or support groups, are taken fully into account. There is a clear opportunity to learn from and build upon the existing good practice. I also am keen that the tribunal should be able to function bilingually, from dealing with initial enquiries to lodging appeals, to having them resolved and being informed of decisions. The current tribunal has a Welsh language scheme, which provides for hearing appeals in either language, but the establishment of a new tribunal will allow for any necessary modifications to be made.

Ar ôl ei staffio, bydd cyfle pwysig gan y tribiwnlys i sefydlu grwpiau defnyddwyr i sicrhau y rhoddir pob ystyriaeth i anghenion yr holl randdeiliaid, boed hwy’n rhieni, yn ddisgyblion, yn awdurdodau addysg lleol neu’n grwpiau cefnogi. Mae’n amlwg bod cyfle i ddysgu oddi wrth yr arferion da presennol ac i adeiladu arnynt. Yr wyf hefyd yn awyddus i’r tribiwnlys allu gweithredu’n ddwyieithog, o ddelio ag ymholiadau cychwynnol i gyflwyno apelau, hyd at eu datrys a chael hysbysrwydd am benderfyniadau. Mae cynllun iaith Gymraeg gan y tribiwnlys presennol, sy’n darparu ar gyfer gwrando apelau yn y naill iaith neu’r llall, ond bydd sefydlu tribiwnlys newydd yn caniatáu i unrhyw newidiadau angenrheidiol gael eu gwneud.

The president will prepare an annual report, and this will provide information about language as well as other appeal trends in different parts of the country. That data will be important, not least in determining appeal prevalence, possible areas of shortcoming and the mapping of future special educational needs provision.

Bydd y llywydd yn paratoi adroddiad blynyddol, a bydd hwn yn darparu gwybodaeth am iaith yn ogystal â thueddiadau eraill mewn apelau mewn gwahanol rannau o’r wlad. Bydd y data hynny’n bwysig, a hynny’n anad dim o ran mesur mynychter apelau, meysydd a allai fod yn ddiffygiol a mapio darpariaeth anghenion addysgol arbennig ar gyfer y dyfodol.

I trust that the tribunal will continue to provide an important service and that it will offer the capacity to adapt to changes in the field of Welsh special educational needs. Therefore, I warmly commend it to you.

Hyderaf y bydd y tribiwnlys yn dal i ddarparu gwasanaeth pwysig ac y bydd ganddo’r gallu i ymaddasu i newidiadau ym maes anghenion addysgol arbennig yng Nghymru. Gan hynny, fe’i cymeradwyaf ichi’n wresog.

Jonathan Morgan spoken in English p. 32

Jonathan Morgan siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 32

Thank you for the advance copy of your statement. As I have said previously, I welcome the establishment of the special educational needs tribunal under the Education Act 2002. It was long overdue, and it will be good for Wales and for those parents in Wales who are concerned about the nature of educational provision for their children with special educational needs. The tribunal will perform a vital part of the process of ensuring that natural justice is done when parents are concerned about the level and type of education provision that their children need.

Diolch ichi am roi copi o’ch datganiad ymlaen llaw. Fel y dywedais o’r blaen, croesawaf sefydlu’r tribiwnlys anghenion addysgol arbennig o dan Ddeddf Addysg 2002. Yr oedd yn hen bryd ei gael, a bydd yn dda i Gymru ac i’r rhieni hynny yng Nghymru sy’n bryderus ynghylch natur y ddarpariaeth addysgol ar gyfer eu plant sydd ag anghenion addysgol arbennig. Bydd y tribiwnlys yn cyflawni rhan hollbwysig o’r broses o sicrhau cyfiawnder naturiol pan fo rhieni’n pryderu am y lefel a’r math o ddarpariaeth addysg y mae ar eu plant ei hangen.

Parents will avail themselves of the authorities’ disagreement resolution service, which is a good idea, as is ensuring that there is no polarisation of positions; that is somewhat easier said than done. Often, LEAs will not budge from their decisions, and parents can become entrenched in their own beliefs and assertions. After all, they are arguing, often forcibly, on behalf of their children. Parents wish only to see the best for their children, and no-one can blame them for that. Therefore, I understand the need for that service.

Bydd rhieni’n defnyddio gwasanaeth datrys anghydfodau’r awdurdodau, sy’n syniad da, fel y mae sicrhau nad oes pegynu ar safbwyntiau; mae’n dipyn haws dweud hynny na’i wneud. Yn aml, ni wnaiff awdurdodau addysg lleol ildio ar ôl gwneud penderfyniad, a gall rhieni lynu’n ddisymud wrth eu credoau a’u haeriadau eu hunain. Wedi’r cwbl, maent yn dadlau, a hynny’n rymus yn aml, ar ran eu plant. Nid yw rhieni ond yn dymuno gweld y gorau ar gyfer eu plant, ac ni all neb weld bai arnynt am hynny. Felly, deallaf yr angen am y gwasanaeth hwnnw.

The length of time that it takes to complete the statementing process, which is not necessarily related to the establishment of the tribunal itself, but is a concern that parents often raise with me. We all understand the various procedures, we know of the professionals and bodies which need to be involved in that process, but it can take up to 26 or 28 weeks to complete—that is an inordinate length of time. Will the Government of Wales commission a study to determine whether that could be done much more quickly? At least parents and children would then be provided with the required level of care and education much earlier than is currently the case.

Mae’r cyfnod o amser a gymerir i gwblhau’r broses o lunio datganiad, er nad yw o reidrwydd yn gysylltiedig â sefydlu’r tribiwnlys ei hun, yn fater y mae rhieni’n ei godi gyda mi’n aml. Yr ydym oll yn deall y gwahanol weithdrefnau, gwyddom am y gweithwyr proffesiynol a’r cyrff y mae angen eu cynnwys yn y broses honno, ond gall gymryd hyd at 26 neu 28 wythnos i’w chwblhau—mae hynny’n llawer gormod o amser. A wnaiff Llywodraeth Cymru gomisiynu astudiaeth i bennu a ellid gwneud hynny’n gyflymach o lawer? Wedyn, o leiaf byddai rhieni a phlant yn cael y lefel ofynnol o ofal ac addysg yn gynt o lawer nag a gânt ar hyn o bryd.

Jane Davidson spoken in English p. 33

Jane Davidson siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 33

I appreciate your endorsement of the tribunal. It is important also to acknowledge that the Huw Roberts report, which looked specifically at the needs of those children who want education provision through the medium of Welsh, expressly called for the establishment of our own tribunal in Wales.

Gwerthfawrogaf eich cefnogaeth i’r tribiwnlys. Mae hefyd yn bwysig cydnabod bod adroddiad Huw Roberts, a roddodd ystyriaeth benodol i anghenion y plant hynny y mae arnynt eisiau darpariaeth addysg drwy gyfrwng y Gymraeg, wedi galw’n benodol am sefydlu ein tribiwnlys ein hunain yng Nghymru.

I share your concern whether people who want to access the right support for their children know where to go to receive it. I remain concerned that, although the code of practice has been in place since 1 April 2002, people are not necessarily aware of it. As a constituency Member, I have sent out codes of practice to parents, as have others in the Chamber, and I have encouraged them to contact organisations such as the special needs advisory project for advice on the statementing process. We need to encourage a real level of honesty throughout the entire education service in Wales so that LEAs know what their function is and so that schools can advise parents on children’s rights. The user groups that will be established alongside the tribunal will go a long way to ensuring that the views of those groups are clearly presented. They will therefore ensure, through the reports of the tribunal’s president to the Assembly, that we can constantly consider these issues and whether or not we need to amend the code of guidance. In the longer term, I would be unhappy to end up in a situation where every child with special educational needs was treated on the back of a statement, which is a complex process. Even though we have reduced the stages of the statement, such a process still takes a substantial period of time. We need to consider how to intervene earlier so that children receive the right educational provision, thereby avoiding the need to be heard by a tribunal.

Rhannaf eich pryder ynghylch a yw’r rhai sydd am gael gafael ar y cymorth priodol i’w plant yn gwybod i ble y dylent fynd er mwyn ei gael. Mae’n dal i fod yn destun pryder imi, er bod y cod ymarfer ar waith ers 1 Ebrill 2002, nad yw pobl o reidrwydd yn gwybod amdano. Fel Aelod etholaeth, yr wyf wedi anfon y cod ymarfer at rieni, fel y gwnaeth eraill yn y Siambr, ac wedi’u hannog i gysylltu â chyrff fel y prosiect ymgynghorol anghenion arbennig er mwyn cael cyngor ar y broses llunio datganiad. Rhaid inni hybu lefel wirioneddol o onestrwydd drwy’r gwasanaeth addysg cyfan yng Nghymru fel y gŵyr awdurdodau addysg lleol beth yw eu swyddogaeth ac fel y gall ysgolion gynghori rhieni ar hawliau plant. Bydd y grwpiau defnyddwyr a sefydlir ochr yn ochr â’r tribiwnlys yn cyfrannu’n helaeth at sicrhau y caiff barn y grwpiau hynny ei chyflwyno’n eglur. Byddant yn sicrhau felly, drwy adroddiadau llywydd y tribiwnlys i’r Cynulliad, y gallwn ystyried y materion hyn yn gyson a gweld a oes angen inni newid y cod arweiniad. Yn y tymor hwy, ni charwn weld sefyllfa yn y diwedd lle y câi pob plentyn a chanddo anghenion addysgol arbennig yng Nghymru ei drin ar sail datganiad, gan fod honno’n broses gymhleth. Er ein bod wedi gostwng nifer y camau ar gyfer y datganiad, mae proses o’r fath yn dal i gymryd cyfnod hir. Rhaid inni ystyried sut i ymyrryd yn gynharach fel y caiff plant y ddarpariaeth addysgol briodol, gan osgoi’r angen am wrandawiad gan dribiwnlys.

Peter Law spoken in English p. 34

Peter Law siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 34

I warmly welcome this announcement, which will be in the interest of children throughout Wales, particularly those who need help. In the case of children from deprived communities who require special educational needs provision, can you assure me that, in order to ensure justice, adequate support will be available for parents who have difficulty in articulating a case before a tribunal?

Croesawaf yn gynnes y cyhoeddiad hwn, a fydd er budd plant ledled Cymru, yn enwedig y rhai y mae angen cymorth arnynt. Yn achos plant o gymunedau difreintiedig y mae arnynt eisiau darpariaeth ar gyfer anghenion addysgol arbennig, a allwch fy sicrhau, er mwyn sicrhau cyfiawnder, y bydd cymorth digonol ar gael i rieni sy’n ei chael yn anodd cyfleu eu hachos gerbron tribiwnlys?

Jane Davidson spoken in English p. 34

Jane Davidson siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 34

It is important that parents feel adequately supported when they go before the tribunal. Even though the tribunal headquarters will be based in Llandrindod Wells, it will hear cases in local communities so that young people do not have to travel far to have their cases heard.

Mae’n bwysig bod rhieni’n teimlo eu bod yn cael cymorth digonol pan ânt gerbron y tribiwnlys. Er mai yn Llandrindod y bydd pencadlys y tribiwnlys, bydd yn gwrando achosion mewn cymunedau lleol fel na fydd pobl ifanc yn gorfod teithio’n bell i gael gwrandawiad i’w hachos.

Helen Mary Jones spoken in English p. 34

Helen Mary Jones siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 34

We warmly welcome the statement and the establishment of the tribunal. Addressing some of the historical injustices that our children and young people with special educational needs have faced has been a cross-party priority. We welcome the advent of the tribunal in that context. However, do you share my concerns—and from your response to Jonathan Morgan, it seems that you do—that many parents still encounter problems getting appropriate statements, and adequate provision once they have got their statements? What are your views on how a future Minister should act if disparities in the performance of county councils continue, which evidence from Welsh-based tribunals may yet reveal? What steps should a Minister take to end the disparity between counties, if that disparity continues, as I am sure your postbag, like mine, suggests? Do you share my hope that this more accessible tribunal process will serve to drive up standards because it will open up access to justice and may concentrate the minds of those counties that currently under-perform? Do you also share my hope that the existence of tribunals and access to them will help to increase and improve available provision, particularly through the medium of Welsh? I am grateful for you earlier reference to that.

Croesawn y datganiad a sefydlu’r tribiwnlys yn gynnes. Bu’n flaenoriaeth gan yr holl bleidiau ymdrin â rhai o’r camweddau a wynebai plant a phobl ifanc ag anghenion addysgol arbennig yn y gorffennol. Croesawn ddyfodiad y tribiwnlys yn y cyd-destun hwnnw. Fodd bynnag, a ydych yn rhannu’r pryderon sydd gennyf—ac yn ôl eich ymateb i Jonathan Morgan, mae’n ymddangos eich bod—fod llawer o rieni’n dal i brofi problemau o ran cael datganiadau priodol, a darpariaeth ddigonol wedi iddynt gael eu datganiadau? Beth yw eich barn am y modd y dylai Gweinidog weithredu yn y dyfodol os bydd gwahaniaethau’n parhau rhwng perfformiad cynghorau sir, a allai gael eu hamlygu drwy dystiolaeth o dribiwnlysoedd sydd wedi’u lleoli yng Nghymru? Pa gamau y dylai Gweinidog eu cymryd i roi diwedd ar y gwahaniaeth rhwng siroedd, os pery’r gwahaniaeth hwnnw, fel yr wyf yn siŵr y mae’r llythyrau a gewch chi, fel minnau, yn ei awgrymu ei fod? A ydych yn rhannu fy ngobaith y bydd y broses tribiwnlys hon, sy’n fwy hygyrch, yn fodd i godi safonau gan y bydd yn sicrhau mynediad haws i gyfiawnder a chan y gallai wneud i’r siroedd hynny sy’n tangyflawni ar hyn o bryd ganolbwyntio? A ydych hefyd yn rhannu fy ngobaith y bydd bodolaeth y tribiwnlysoedd a’r gallu i’w defnyddio o gymorth i hybu a gwella’r ddarpariaeth sydd ar gael, yn enwedig hynny a geir drwy gyfrwng y Gymraeg? Yr wyf yn ddiolchgar i chi am eich cyfeiriad at hynny’n gynharach.

I have two further specific questions. On the relationship between the tribunals and hearings on disability and given the Assembly’s statutory duty to promote equality of opportunity, do you agree that it would be appropriate at some point to seek to devolve disability issues given that part of their enforcement is now being funded by the Assembly? Do you believe that the future Minister should monitor the cost of hearings on non-devolved matters? If we find that this tribunal, which the Assembly is funding, undertakes a great deal of work for the department in London, perhaps we should seek some redress for that given that these tribunals are expensive.

Mae gennyf ddau gwestiwn penodol pellach. Ynghylch y berthynas rhwng y tribiwnlysoedd a gwrandawiadau ar anabledd ac o gofio dyletswydd statudol y Cynulliad i hyrwyddo cyfle cyfartal, a gytunwch y byddai’n briodol ar ryw adeg i geisio datganoli materion anabledd o gofio bod rhan o’r gwaith o’u gorfodi’n cael ei chyllido bellach gan y Cynulliad? A ydych yn credu y dylai’r Gweinidog a ddaw fonitro cost gwrandawiadau ar faterion sydd heb eu datganoli? Os cawn fod y tribiwnlys hwn, y mae’r Cynulliad yn ei gyllido, yn gwneud llawer iawn o waith dros yr adran yn Llundain, efallai y dylem geisio rhyw iawn am hynny o gofio bod y tribiwnlysoedd hyn yn ddrud.

Finally, on operations through the medium of Welsh, I welcome your comments that the current scheme could be adapted. Many parents would like access to hearings through the medium of Welsh rather than translated hearings because everyone else is speaking English. That would have been difficult to achieve under the old arrangements. Will you give us a commitment that you will seek—or you believe that the next Minister should seek—for parents to be heard through the medium of Welsh, if that is their language of choice or, importantly, if it is the young person’s language of choice bearing in mind what you have already said about involving children and young people in the process of making these decisions?

Yn olaf, ynghylch gweithrediadau drwy gyfrwng y Gymraeg, croesawaf eich sylwadau i’r perwyl y gellid addasu’r cynllun presennol. Byddai llawer o rieni’n hoffi cael gwrandawiadau drwy gyfrwng y Gymraeg yn hytrach na gwrandawiadau sydd wedi’u cyfieithu oherwydd bod pawb arall yn siarad Saesneg. Buasai’n anodd cyflawni hynny o dan yr hen drefniadau. A wnewch roi ymrwymiad inni y byddwch yn ceisio—neu y credwch y dylai’r Gweinidog nesaf geisio—sicrhau y caiff rhieni wrandawiad drwy gyfrwng y Gymraeg, os mai hi yw eu dewis iaith neu, yn bwysig, os mai hi yw dewis iaith y person ifanc gan gofio’r hyn a ddywedasoch eisoes am gynnwys plant a phobl ifanc yn y broses o wneud y penderfyniadau hyn?

Jane Davidson spoken in English p. 36

Jane Davidson siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 36

This Government has gone further than any other government in tackling special educational needs in Wales. We have set up an all-Wales advisory group, established co-ordinators and have used Wales-only powers in the Education Act 2002 with regard to the tribunal. We are also considering regional partnerships between local authorities. For example, Ysgol Plas Bron Dyffryn in north Wales received additional capital funding to be developed as a regional centre of excellence for autism. We are considering similar projects in other parts of Wales and encouraging local authorities to work in partnership.

Mae’r Llywodraeth hon wedi mynd ymhellach na’r un llywodraeth arall o ran ymdrin ag anghenion addysgol arbennig yng Nghymru. Yr ydym wedi sefydlu grŵp ymgynghorol i Gymru gyfan, wedi penodi cydlynwyr ac wedi defnyddio pwerau i Gymru’n unig yn Neddf Addysg 2002 mewn cysylltiad â’r tribiwnlys. Yr ydym hefyd yn ystyried partneriaethau rhanbarthol rhwng awdurdodau lleol. Er enghraifft, cafodd Ysgol Plas Bron Dyffryn yn y Gogledd gyllid cyfalaf ychwanegol i’w datblygu’n ganolfan ragoriaeth ranbarthol ar gyfer awtistiaeth. Yr ydym yn ystyried prosiectau tebyg mewn rhannau eraill o Gymru ac yn annog awdurdodau lleol i weithio mewn partneriaeth.

Any future Minister will want to ensure that local authorities work in partnership to deliver this agenda. It is not about individual local authorities, because one cannot predict where children with low-incidence special educational needs will be born. We must have the right partnerships and collaborations to take this agenda forward. However, we are doing much more work than ever before. That is in addition to the partnership work that I am undertaking with my colleague, Jane Hutt, to create extra places for therapists, extra training opportunities and investment; we will be consulting on that work shortly.

Bydd unrhyw Weinidog a ddaw am sicrhau bod awdurdodau lleol yn gweithio mewn partneriaeth i gyflawni’r agenda hon. Nid yw’n ymwneud ag awdurdodau lleol unigol, oherwydd ni ellir rhagweld ym mhle y genir plant ag anghenion addysgol arbennig sy’n anghyffredin. Rhaid inni wrth y partneriaethau a’r cydweithredu priodol er mwyn bwrw ymlaen â’r agenda hon. Fodd bynnag, yr ydym yn gwneud llawer mwy o waith nag erioed o’r blaen. Mae hynny ar ben y gwaith partneriaeth yr wyf yn ymgymryd ag ef gyda fy nghyd-Weinidog, Jane Hutt, i greu lleoedd ychwanegol ar gyfer therapyddion, cyfleoedd ychwanegol i hyfforddi a buddsoddiad; byddwn yn ymgynghori ar y gwaith hwnnw cyn bo hir.

To clarify, the disability elements of the tribunal will be recharged to the Department for Education and Skills, because it is not a devolved function. I want to ensure, as always, that this will be cost neutral, and that the Assembly does not have to pick up costs that should properly be met by our colleagues in Westminster. The message for a future Minister is that this is an important issue, and that we must carry on with the work that we have started. We will need additional investment in health, social care and education in the longer term to tackle these needs. We must also ensure that parents who do not feel adequately supported at present, know about the code and their rights, and can access the right kind of education for their children. We must do that by using the legislation that we have introduced, which will deliver the right outcome.

Er mwyn egluro, ailgodir y tâl am elfennau’r tribiwnlys sy’n ymwneud ag anabledd ar yr Adran Addysg a Sgiliau, gan nad yw’n swyddogaeth a ddatganolwyd. Dymunaf sicrhau, fel y gwnaf bob amser, y bydd hyn yn niwtral o ran cost, ac nad oes rhaid i’r Cynulliad gwrdd â chostau a ddylai gael eu talu gan ein cyd-Weinidogion yn San Steffan. Y neges i Weinidog yn y dyfodol yw bod hyn yn fater pwysig, a bod rhaid inni barhau â’r gwaith a ddechreuasom. Bydd arnom angen buddsoddiad ychwanegol mewn iechyd, gofal cymdeithasol ac addysg yn y tymor hwy i ddiwallu’r anghenion hyn. Rhaid inni sicrhau hefyd fod rhieni nad ydynt yn teimlo eu bod yn cael cymorth digonol ar hyn o bryd, yn gwybod am y cod ac am eu hawliau, a’u bod yn gallu cael y math iawn o addysg ar gyfer eu plant. Rhaid inni wneud hynny drwy ddefnyddio’r ddeddfwriaeth a gyflwynasom, a fydd yn sicrhau’r canlyniad priodol.

Gareth Jones siaradwyd yn Gymraeg t. 37

Gareth Jones spoken in Welsh p. 37

Croesawaf sefydlu’r tribiwnlys hwn. Yr ydym wedi gofyn amdano ar hyd y blynyddoedd. Gofynnaf ichi egluro un pwynt. Cyfeiriwch at y ffaith y bydd penderfyniadau’r tribiwnlys yn annibynnol ar Lywodraeth—‘independent of Government’ yw’r term a ddefnyddiwch, a deallaf i ryw raddau yr hyn a olygwch. Fodd bynnag, pa statws cyfreithiol fydd i’r penderfyniadau hyn? A fydd grym statudol iddynt, a fydd yn gorfodi awdurodadau lleol i ddilyn y penderfyniadau hynny, neu a fyddant yn debyg i ddatganiadau di-rym, di-ddannedd Comisiynydd Plant Cymru, sy’n gwneud datganiadau o bwys sydd yn cael eu diystyru gan lywodraeth leol?

I welcome the establishment of this tribunal. We have been asking for it over the years. I ask you to clarify one point. You refer to the fact that the tribunal’s decisions will be independent of Government—that is the phrase that you use, and I understand what you mean to some extent. However, what legal status will these decisions have? Will they have statutory force, which will impel local authorities to abide by those decisions, or will they be similar to the ineffectual, toothless statements of the Children’s Commissioner for Wales, who makes important statements that are disregarded by local government?

Jane Davidson spoken in English p. 37

Jane Davidson siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 37

The tribunals are set up under the aegis of the Lord Chancellor’s department and have the force of law behind them. Our Welsh tribunal will operate in exactly the same way as other tribunals. To respond to one of Helen Mary’s points that I missed earlier, people will be able to have hearings in Welsh. That is an important principle for the Assembly Government and is why the Huw Roberts report was so important, so that we can take that agenda forward.

Sefydlir y tribiwnlysoedd dan nawdd adran yr Arglwydd Ganghellor ac mae grym y gyfraith yn gefn iddynt. Bydd ein tribiwnlys yng Nghymru’n gweithredu yn yr union fodd â thriwbiwnlysoedd eraill. Er mwyn ymateb i un o’r pwyntiau a wnaeth Helen Mary a fethais yn gynharach, bydd pobl yn gallu cael gwrandawiadau yn y Gymraeg. Mae hynny’n egwyddor bwysig gan Lywodraeth y Cynulliad a dyna pam yr oedd adroddiad Huw Roberts mor bwysig, fel y gallwn fwrw ymlaen â’r agenda honno.

Pwyntiau o Drefn

Points of Order

Carwyn Jones The Business Minister spoken in English p. 37

Carwyn Jones Y Trefnydd siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 37

Point of order. Last week, there was some confusion when a debate was curtailed just before the short debate. Standing Order No. 6.3(v) states that when a debate runs out of time before the short debate is to begin, then that motion lapses. However, Standing Order No. 6.14 states that at the conclusion of any debate, the motion should be put to the vote. The difficulty last week has been clarified, and there is no immediate problem. However, for clarity’s sake, will you give a definitive ruling on which Standing Order applies, or whether further consideration could be given to Standing Order No. 6.14, and words inserted into it to ensure that it is subject to Standing Order 6.3(v)?

Pwynt o drefn. Yr wythnos diwethaf, bu peth dryswch pan gwtogwyd ar ddadl yn union cyn y ddadl fer. Mae Rheol Sefydlog Rhif 6.3(v) yn datgan y bydd cynnig yn methu os yw’r amser ar gyfer dadl arno’n dod i ben cyn dechrau’r ddadl fer. Fodd bynnag, dywed Rheol Sefydlog Rhif 6.14 y dylid cael pleidlais ar y cynnig ar derfyn unrhyw ddadl. Eglurwyd yr anhawster a gafwyd yr wythnos diwethaf, ac nid oes problem ar hyn o bryd. Er hynny, er mwyn eglurder, a wnewch roi dyfarniad terfynol ar ba Reol Sefydlog sy’n gymwys, neu a ellid ystyried Rheol Sefydlog Rhif 6.14 ymhellach, a rhoi geiriau ynddi i sicrhau ei bod yn ddarostyngedig i Reol Sefydlog Rhif 6.3(v)?

Dafydd Elis-Thomas The Presiding Officer spoken in Welsh and English p. 38

Dafydd Elis-Thomas Y Llywydd siaradwyd yn Gymraeg ac yn Saesneg t. 38

I am grateful to the Business Minister for giving me notice that he was going to raise this issue. I have studied the Record of Proceedings and am content that proceedings were conducted in accordance with Standing Orders. However, if Members feel that Standing Orders, as drafted at present, are open to different interpretations—and the Business Minister expressed that feeling today—I will ask the Business Committee in the next Assembly to examine the wording of the relevant Standing Order, so that we can remove any uncertainty or ambiguity that might exist.

yn Saesneg Yr wyf yn ddiolchgar i’r Trefnydd am fy rhybuddio ei fod am godi’r mater hwn. Yr wyf wedi craffu ar Gofnod y Trafodion ac yr wyf yn fodlon bod y trafodion wedi’u cynnal yn unol â’r Rheolau Sefydlog. Serch hynny, os yw Aelodau’n teimlo bod y Rheolau Sefydlog, fel y maent wedi’u drafftio ar hyn o bryd, yn agored i ddehongliadau gwahanol—a mynegodd y Trefnydd y teimlad hwnnw heddiw—gofynnaf i’r Pwyllgor Busnes yn y Cynulliad nesaf edrych ar eiriad y Rheol Sefydlog perthnasol, fel y gallwn ddileu unrhyw ansicrwydd neu amwysedd a allai fod.

Deallaf fod gennych ail bwynt o drefn.

in Welsh I understand that you have a second point of order.

Carwyn Jones spoken in English p. 38

Carwyn Jones siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 38

Thank you, Llywydd, for that clarification.

Diolch ichi, Lywydd, am yr eglurhad hwnnw.

My second point of order is as follows. In any system of governance—this applies at a UK level and should also apply in Wales—there are occasions when documents are provided to elected Members in confidence. It is an accepted part of the agreement between Government and the opposition that where the Government is in a position to have sight of confidential documents, or where such documents are only available to certain Assembly Members, then only those Members should have sight of them. It is akin, perhaps, to Privy Council terms in Westminster. It was therefore of great concern to me to learn that an Audit Committee report that was, and remains, confidential was leaked to the BBC last week, almost immediately after the Audit Committee was seized of the report. That constitutes a clear and serious breach of confidence regarding the Audit Committee and holds the Chamber in contempt. I choose those words deliberately.

Mae’r ail bwynt o drefn sydd gennyf fel a ganlyn. Mewn unrhyw system lywodraethu—mae hyn yn berthnasol ar lefel y DU a dylai fod yn berthnasol yng Nghymru hefyd—mae adegau pan ddarperir dogfennau i Aelodau etholedig yn gyfrinachol. Rhan dderbyniol o’r cytundeb rhwng Llywodraeth a’r wrthblaid, pan fo’r Llywodraeth mewn sefyllfa i gael gweld dogfennau cyfrinachol, neu pan nad yw dogfennau o’r fath ond ar gael i rai Aelodau o’r Cynulliad, yw mai dim ond yr Aelodau hynny a ddylai gael eu gweld. Mae’n debyg, o bosibl, i delerau’r Cyfrin Gyngor yn San Steffan. Testun pryder mawr imi, felly, oedd cael gwybod bod adroddiad o eiddo’r Pwyllgor Archwilio a oedd yn gyfrinachol, ac sydd felly o hyd, wedi’i datgelu i’r BBC yr wythnos diwethaf, bron yn union wedi i’r adroddiad ddod i feddiant y Pwyllgor Archwilio. Mae hynny’n dor-ymddiriedaeth amlwg a difrifol mewn cysylltiad â’r Pwyllgor Archwilio ac mae’n dirmygu’r Siambr. Dewisaf y geiriau hynny’n fwriadol.

Firstly, the leak is discourteous to the Chair. The Chair of the Committee, Dafydd Wigley, is retiring from full-time politics after serving his country for 30 years. I do not agree with his beliefs and I am not a member of his party, but I acknowledge the contribution that he has made. I find it discourteous in the extreme that the final act with which he will be involved as a Member of the Chamber is to try to find out where this leak came from. It is discourtesy at a high level indeed.

Yn gyntaf, mae’r datgeliad yn anghwrtais tuag at y Cadeirydd. Mae Cadeirydd y Pwyllgor, Dafydd Wigley, yn ymddeol o wleidyddiaeth lawn-amser ar ôl gwasanaethu ei wlad am 30 mlynedd. Ni chytunaf â’i gredoau ac nid wyf yn aelod o’i blaid, ond cydnabyddaf y cyfraniad a wnaeth. Fe’i caf yn anghwrtais dros ben mai’r weithred olaf y bydd yn gysylltiedig â hi fel Aelod o’r Siambr yw ceisio darganfod o ble y daeth y datgeliad hwn. Mae’n anghwrteisi ar lefel uchel iawn.

Who gave that report to the BBC? I have been given a name, but I will not embarrass that person by naming that person today. I hope that that person comes forward. However, I call on each party in the Chamber to declare now that no member of their group leaked the report to the BBC. I note that Jonathan Morgan produced the document in the Chamber this afternoon and I challenge him directly to state from where he got a copy of that document. I will await his reply before I rise to make further points regarding this point of order.

Pwy a roddodd yr adroddiad hwnnw i’r BBC? Rhoddwyd enw imi, ond ni wnaf godi cywilydd ar y person hwnnw drwy ei enwi heddiw. Gobeithiaf y daw’r person hwnnw ymlaen. Fodd bynnag, galwaf ar bob plaid yn y Siambr i ddatgan yn awr na wnaeth unrhyw aelod o’u grŵp ddatgelu’r adroddiad i’r BBC. Sylwaf fod Jonathan Morgan wedi dangos y ddogfen yn y Siambr y prynhawn yma ac fe’i heriaf yn uniongyrchol i ddweud o ble y cafodd gopi o’r ddogfen honno. Disgwyliaf am ateb ganddo cyn imi godi i wneud pwyntiau pellach am y pwynt o drefn hwn.

I am extremely concerned that there appears to have been a serious breach. I know that there are other Members in the Chamber, from many parties, who also wish to make this point. Ultimately, we must remember that it is easy for parties to try to make political capital out of confidential reports, but the majority of Members have not sought to do so, and those Members represent more than one political party. Llywydd, I may have a further point to make on this point of order, depending upon what is said by Members in the Chamber.

Yr wyf yn bryderus tu hwnt ei bod yn ymddangos bod toriad difrifol wedi digwydd. Gwn fod Aelodau eraill yn y Siambr, o lawer plaid, sy’n dymuno gwneud y pwynt hwn. Yn y pen draw, rhaid inni gofio ei bod yn hawdd i bleidiau geisio gwneud elw gwleidyddol o adroddiadau cyfrinachol, ond nid yw’r rhan fwyaf o Aelodau wedi ceisio gwneud hynny, ac mae’r Aelodau hynny’n cynrychioli mwy nag un blaid wleidyddol. Lywydd, efallai y bydd gennyf bwynt pellach i’w wneud am y pwynt o drefn hwn, yn ôl yr hyn a ddywedir gan Aelodau yn y Siambr.

Dafydd Elis-Thomas The Presiding Officer spoken in English p. 39

Dafydd Elis-Thomas Y Llywydd siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 39

Order. Before we pursue this matter further I would like to make it clear that I, as I stated earlier this afternoon, deplore any leaks from a Committee and quotations from leaked reports. However, if there has been a breach of our Standing Orders we have a procedure whereby Members may be called to account by the Committee on Standards of Conduct, and I believe that that procedure is to be preferred to debating this issue publicly in the Assembly Chamber.

Trefn. Cyn inni ddilyn y mater hwn ymhellach carwn roi ar ddeall fy mod i, fel y dywedais yn gynharach y prynhawn yma, yn gresynu at ddatgelu unrhyw beth cyfrinachol o Bwyllgor ac at ddyfyniadau o adroddiadau cyfrinachol a ddatgelwyd. Fodd bynnag, os torrwyd ein Rheolau Sefydlog mae gennym weithdrefn y gellir ei defnyddio i alw Aelodau i gyfrif drwy’r Pwyllgor Safonau Ymddygiad, a chredaf y dylid ffafrio’r weithdrefn honno yn hytrach na thrafod y mater hwn yn gyhoeddus yn Siambr y Cynulliad.

Dafydd Wigley siaradwyd yn Gymraeg t. 39

Dafydd Wigley spoken in Welsh p. 39

Ymhellach i’r pwynt o drefn hwnnw, dywedaf mor ddifrifol yr wyf innau hefyd yn ystyried y mater hwn. Rhannaf deimladau Carwyn Jones ar y pwnc. Bu’n gam hynod anffodus, nid yn unig i’r Pwyllgor, ond hefyd i’r Cynulliad ac i Syr John Bourn ei hun, gan fod yr eitem ar y teledu wedi cyfeirio at yr adroddiad fel pe bai’n adroddiad gan yr Archwilydd Cyffredinol ei hun. Mewn gwirionedd, yr oedd yn ddrafft a oedd i ddod gerbron y Pwyllgor i’w ddatblygu’n adroddiad gan y Pwyllgor. Yr oedd hefyd, o’r hyn a ddeallaf, yn ddrafft nad oedd wir yn adlewyrchu’r drafodaeth a fu yn y Pwyllgor. Felly, yr oedd ei ddefnyddio yn gamarweiniol ac yn anghwrtais i’r Pwyllgor. Pan welais y rhaglen, gofynnais i Glerc y Cynulliad, Paul Silk, sefydlu ymchwiliad trwyadl i’r mater. Yn unol â’r cyngor yr wyf wedi ei gael, yr wyf wedi ysgrifennu at y bobl hynny all fod wedi gweld copi neu gael copi o’r adroddiad yn eu meddiant. Yr wyf yn gobeithio, drwy hyn, y deuwn at wraidd y mater. Byddai’n haws i bawb a all fod o dan amheuaeth pe bai’r unigolyn sy’n gyfrifol am hyn yn cyfaddef hynny—os oedd hynny’n ddamwain neu, yn waeth byth, yn weithred fwriadol. Os oedd yn weithred fwriadol, awgrymaf—er na fydd yn fater imi gan fy mod yn gadael y Cynulliad—wrth ailgyfansoddi’r Pwyllgor Archwilio yn y Cynulliad nesaf, na ddylid cynnwys Aelod sy’n euog o’r fath weithred.

Further to that point of order, I wish to state how grevious a matter I also consider this to be. I share Carwyn Jones’s feelings on the issue. It has been exceptionally unfortunate, not only for the Committee, but also for the Assembly and for Sir John Bourn himself, because the item on television referred to the report as if it were a report by the Auditor General himself. In fact, it was a draft that was to come before the Committee to be developed into a Committee report. It was also, I understand, a draft that did not truly reflect the discussions that had taken place in Committee. Therefore, to use it was misleading as well as being discourteous to the Committee. When I saw the programme, I asked the Clerk to the Assembly, Paul Silk, to set up a thorough investigation into the matter. In accordance with the advice that I have received, I have written to those people who may have had sight or have received a copy of the report in their possession. I hope that, in this way, we will get to the bottom of the matter. It would be easier for all those who could be under suspicion if the individual responsible for this were to admit it—whether it be an accident or, worse still, an act of commission. If it was an act of commission, I suggest—although it is not a matter for me as I am standing down from the Assembly—that, when the Audit Committee is reconstituted in the next Assembly, any Member found guilty of such an act should not be included.

Jocelyn Davies spoken in English p. 40

Jocelyn Davies siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 40

Further to this point of order, I place on public record that no Plaid Cymru members of the Audit Committee—Dafydd Wigley, Janet Davies and myself—have made this report available to the press or anyone else, including other members of our group. We have kept the confidentiality of the report; we take the Audit Committee’s work seriously. I know that you have said that this is a matter for the Committee on Standards of Conduct, but we want this matter laid to rest today.

Ymhellach i’r pwynt o drefn hwn, dywedaf ar goedd nad yw’r un o aelodau Plaid Cymru ar y Pwyllgor Archwilio—Dafydd Wigley, Janet Davies a mi—wedi darparu’r adroddiad hwn i’r wasg na neb arall, gan gynnwys aelodau o’n grŵp. Yr ydym wedi cadw cyfrinachedd yr adroddiad; yr ydym yn cymryd gwaith y Pwyllgor Archwilio o ddifrif. Gwn eich bod wedi dweud mai mater i’r Pwyllgor Safonau Ymddygiad yw hyn, ond yr ydym am weld datrys y mater hwn heddiw.

Janice Gregory spoken in English p. 40

Janice Gregory siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 40

Further to this point of order, as a member of Audit Committee, I was outraged to see on Dragon’s Eye on Thursday evening that a report had been leaked to the BBC. I cannot stress enough how disgraceful the actions of that member of the Audit Committee are—or, indeed, the actions of someone from the National Audit Office are, because, at this moment, we are all under suspicion. I am confident that it was not a Labour member of the Audit Committee, or a member of the Labour Party staff, who leaked this report. I thank Dafydd Wigley, as Chair of the Audit Committee, for taking such swift action. I e-mailed several people on Thursday night to tell them how outraged I was by this incident. There is no doubt that this leak is political posturing. It is an attempt to bring an Assembly sponsored public body into disrepute during an election campaign, which is even more outrageous.

Ymhellach i’r pwynt o drefn hwn, fel aelod o’r Pwyllgor Archwilio, teimlais ddicter o weld ar Dragon’s Eye nos Iau fod adroddiad cyfrinachol wedi’i ddatgelu i’r BBC. Ni allaf orbwysleisio mor warthus yw gweithredoedd yr aelod hwnnw o’r Pwyllgor Archwilio—neu, yn wir, weithredoedd rhywun yn y Swyddfa Archwilio Genedlaethol, oherwydd, ar hyn o bryd, yr ydym oll dan amheuaeth. Yr wyf yn ffyddiog nad un o aelodau Llafur o’r Pwyllgor Archwilio, neu aelod o staff y Blaid Lafur, a ddatgelodd yr adroddiad hwn. Diolchaf i Dafydd Wigley, fel Cadeirydd y Pwyllgor Archwilio, am gymryd camau mor fuan. Anfonais neges e-bost at nifer o bobl nos Iau i ddweud wrthynt pa mor ddig y teimlwn oherwydd y digwyddiad hwn. Nid oes dwywaith nad ymagweddu gwleidyddol oedd y datgeliad hwn. Mae’n ymgais i ddwyn anfri ar gorff cyhoeddus a noddir gan y Cynulliad yn ystod ymgyrch etholiad, ac mae hynny’n fwy gwaradwyddus byth.

Dafydd Elis-Thomas The Presiding Officer spoken in English p. 41

Dafydd Elis-Thomas Y Llywydd siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 41

I am not anxious to prolong this discussion. It is an important issue and, as has been pointed out, we have procedures to deal with it that have already been put into effect.

Nid wyf yn awyddus i ymestyn y drafodaeth hon. Mae’n fater pwysig ac, fel y nodwyd, mae gennym weithdrefnau i ddelio ag ef a roddwyd ar waith eisoes.

Kirsty Williams spoken in English p. 41

Kirsty Williams siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 41

Further to this point of order, on behalf of the Liberal Democrat group, I agree with the comments already made. I have discussed this matter with the Liberal Democrat member of the Audit Committee, who is deeply shocked by what has happened. As a former member of the Audit Committee, I know how important these working arrangements are for the Committee to work properly. Behaviour of this kind, as Dafydd Wigley rightly said, undermines that Committee and the Assembly as a whole.

Ymhellach i’r pwynt o drefn hwn, ar ran grŵp y Democratiaid Rhyddfrydol, cytunaf â’r sylwadau a wnaed eisoes. Yr wyf wedi trafod y mater hwn gydag aelod y Democratiaid Rhyddfrydol o’r Pwyllgor Archwilio, sydd wedi synnu’n fawr at yr hyn a ddigwyddodd. Fel cyn-aelod o’r Pwyllgor Archwilio, gwn mor bwysig yw’r trefniadau gweithio hyn er mwyn i’r Pwyllgor weithio’n briodol. Mae ymddygiad o’r math hwn, fel y dywedodd Dafydd Wigley, yn tanseilio’r Pwyllgor hwnnw a’r Cynulliad fel cyfangorff.

William Graham spoken in English p. 41

William Graham siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 41

Further to this point of order, I reiterate and endorse the comments made. For the record, no member of the Welsh Conservative group was guilty of improper conduct—[Interruption.]

Ymhellach i’r pwynt o drefn hwn, ailddatganaf a chymeradwyaf y sylwadau a wnaed. Er mwyn i bawb gael gwybod, ni fu’r un aelod o grŵp Ceidwadwyr Cymru yn euog o ymddygiad amhriodol—[Torri ar draws.]

Dafydd Elis-Thomas The Presiding Officer spoken in English p. 41

Dafydd Elis-Thomas Y Llywydd siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 41

Order. I have indicated that I do not wish for this point of order to become an opportunity to air issues that are more appropriately and properly considered by a full investigation.

Trefn. Yr wyf wedi nodi nad wyf yn dymuno i’r pwynt o drefn hwn fynd yn gyfle i wyntyllu materion y byddai’n fwy priodol a chywir eu hystyried drwy ymchwiliad llawn.

William Graham spoken in English p. 41

William Graham siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 41

For the record, I confirm that no member of the Welsh Conservative group used any documentation improperly and, in this particular instance, was unaware of its existence until it arrived.

Er mwyn i bawb gael gwybod, cadarnhaf na wnaeth yr un aelod o grŵp Ceidwadwyr Cymru ddefnyddio unrhyw ddogfen yn amhriodol ac, yn yr achos penodol hwn, ni wyddai’r un ohonynt am ei bodolaeth hyd nes iddi gyrraedd.

Carwyn Jones The Business Minister spoken in English p. 42

Carwyn Jones Y Trefnydd siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 42

Further to that point of order, I have absolutely no idea what the Welsh Conservative spokesman was trying to say. He said that no document was used improperly—that is not a denial of leaking the document. The people of Wales and we in the Chamber can draw our own inference from the Welsh Conservative spokesman’s remarks. I will report this matter to the Committee on Standards of Conduct.

Ymhellach i’r pwynt o drefn hwnnw, nid oes gennyf unrhyw syniad o gwbl beth y mae llefarydd Ceidwadwyr Cymru yn ceisio’i ddweud. Dywedodd na ddefnyddiwyd yr un ddogfen yn amhriodol—nid gwadu datgelu’r ddogfen yw hynny. Gall pobl Cymru a ni yn y Siambr ddod i’n casgliad ein hun am sylwadau llefarydd Ceidwadwyr Cymru. Gwnaf adrodd y mater hwn i’r Pwyllgor Safonau Ymddygiad.

William Graham spoken in English p. 42

William Graham siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 42

Further to this point of order, to clarify the matter for the Business Minister, I have spoken to the Conservative member of the Audit Committee and I repeat: the documentation was not disclosed by any member of this group. I hope that that is sufficiently clear.

Ymhellach i’r pwynt o drefn hwn, er mwyn egluro’r mater i’r Trefnydd, yr wyf wedi siarad â’r aelod Ceidwadol o’r Pwyllgor Archwilio a dywedaf eto: ni ddatgelwyd y ddogfen gan unrhyw aelod o’r grŵp hwn. Gobeithiaf fod hynny’n ddigon eglur.

Dafydd Elis-Thomas The Presiding Officer spoken in English p. 42

Dafydd Elis-Thomas Y Llywydd siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 42

Order. I want to conclude this now, because I do not believe that it is appropriate for the Assembly to hold this kind of discussion in public; it only adds to the difficulties in which we find ourselves as a result of what has happened. I am grateful to the Business Minister and to the Members who have spoken, in particular the Chair of the Audit Committee, who has clearly set out his position. It is our custom to deal with matters involving the Committee on Standards of Conduct in private, rather than in Plenary.

Trefn. Dymunaf ddod â hyn i ben yn awr, gan na chredaf ei bod yn briodol i’r Cynulliad gynnal trafodaeth o’r math hwn yn gyhoeddus; nid yw ond yn ychwanegu at y trafferthion sydd gennym o ganlyniad i’r hyn a ddigwyddodd. Yr wyf yn ddiolchgar i’r Trefnydd ac i’r Aelodau a siaradodd, yn enwedig Cadeirydd y Pwyllgor Archwilio, sydd wedi datgan ei safbwynt yn eglur. Ein harfer yw delio â materion sy’n ymwneud â’r Pwyllgor Safonau Ymddygiad yn breifat, yn hytrach nag yn y Cyfarfod Llawn.

Cynnig Cyfansawdd: Cymeradwyo Gorchmynion

Composite Motion: Approval of Orders

Dafydd Elis-Thomas Y Llywydd siaradwyd yn Gymraeg t. 42

Dafydd Elis-Thomas The Presiding Officer spoken in Welsh p. 42

O dan Reol Sefydlog Rhif 22.25, ni chynhelir dadl ar y cynnig hwn.

Under Standing Order No. 22.25, this motion is not subject to debate.

Carwyn Jones Y Trefnydd siaradwyd yn Gymraeg t. 42

Carwyn Jones The Business Minister spoken in Welsh p. 42

Cynigiaf fod

I propose that

DerbyniwydAdopted O blaidFor 46 YmatalAbstain 0 Yn erbynAgainst 0

Derbyniwyd y cynnig.

Motion carried.

Sut y pleidleisiodd yr AelodauHow Members voted
O blaidFor (46)
  • Lorraine Barrett
  • Mick Bates
  • Peter Black
  • Eleanor Burnham
  • Rosemary Butler
  • Christine Chapman
  • Cynog Dafis
  • Jane Davidson
  • Andrew Davies
  • David Davies
  • Glyn Davies
  • Janet Davies
  • Jocelyn Davies
  • Sue Essex
  • Delyth Evans
  • Michael German
  • William Graham
  • Janice Gregory
  • John Griffiths
  • Brian Gibbons
  • Alison Halford
  • Edwina Hart
  • Jane Hutt
  • Ann Jones
  • Carwyn Jones
  • David Ian Jones
  • Elin Jones
  • Gareth Jones
  • Helen Mary Jones
  • Peter Law
  • Huw Lewis
  • David Lloyd
  • Val Lloyd
  • Tom Middlehurst
  • Jonathan Morgan
  • Rhodri Morgan
  • Lynne Neagle
  • Alun Pugh
  • Jenny Randerson
  • Peter Rogers
  • Janet Ryder
  • Karen Sinclair
  • Gwenda Thomas
  • Rhodri Glyn Thomas
  • Dafydd Wigley
  • Kirsty Williams

Cymeradwyo Rheoliadau Dyfroedd Arwyneb (Pysgod) (Dosbarthu) (Diwygio) 2003

Approval of the Surface Waters (Fishlife) (Classification) (Amendment) Regulations 2003

Sue Essex The Minister for Environment spoken in English p. 44

Sue Essex Y Gweinidog dros yr Amgylchedd siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 44

I propose that

Cynigiaf fod

Dafydd Elis-Thomas Y Llywydd siaradwyd yn Gymraeg t. 44

Dafydd Elis-Thomas The Presiding Officer spoken in Welsh p. 44

Nid oes siaradwyr, felly symudwn i bleidlais.

There are no speakers, therefore we will move to a vote.

DerbyniwydAdopted O blaidFor 45 YmatalAbstain 0 Yn erbynAgainst 0

Derbyniwyd y cynnig.

Motion carried.

Sut y pleidleisiodd yr AelodauHow Members voted
O blaidFor (45)
  • Lorraine Barrett
  • Mick Bates
  • Peter Black
  • Eleanor Burnham
  • Rosemary Butler
  • Christine Chapman
  • Jane Davidson
  • Andrew Davies
  • David Davies
  • Geraint Davies
  • Glyn Davies
  • Janet Davies
  • Jocelyn Davies
  • Sue Essex
  • Delyth Evans
  • Michael German
  • William Graham
  • Janice Gregory
  • John Griffiths
  • Brian Gibbons
  • Alison Halford
  • Edwina Hart
  • Jane Hutt
  • Ann Jones
  • Carwyn Jones
  • David Ian Jones
  • Elin Jones
  • Gareth Jones
  • Peter Law
  • Huw Lewis
  • David Lloyd
  • Val Lloyd
  • Tom Middlehurst
  • Rhodri Morgan
  • Lynne Neagle
  • Alun Pugh
  • Jenny Randerson
  • Peter Rogers
  • Janet Ryder
  • Karen Sinclair
  • Gwenda Thomas
  • Owen John Thomas
  • Rhodri Glyn Thomas
  • Dafydd Wigley
  • Kirsty Williams

Cymeradwyo Newid Dros Dro i Reol Sefydlog Rhif 22

Approval of a Temporary Change to Standing Order No. 22

Carwyn Jones Y Trefnydd siaradwyd yn Gymraeg t. 45

Carwyn Jones The Business Minister spoken in Welsh p. 45

Cynigiaf fod

I propose that

Dafydd Elis-Thomas Y Llywydd siaradwyd yn Gymraeg t. 45

Dafydd Elis-Thomas The Presiding Officer spoken in Welsh p. 45

Mae angen mwyafrif o ddwy ran o dair i bleidleisio o blaid y cynnig iddo gael ei dderbyn. Gwelaf nad oes neb am siarad ar y cynnig, felly galwaf bleidlais.

A two-thirds majority vote in favour is needed for this motion to be carried. I see that there are no speakers on the motion, therefore I call for a vote.

Cynnig NDM1448 Carwyn Jones t. 45

Motion NDM1448 Carwyn Jones p. 45

DerbyniwydAdopted O blaidFor 42 YmatalAbstain 0 Yn erbynAgainst 0

Derbyniwyd y cynnig.

Motion carried.

Sut y pleidleisiodd yr AelodauHow Members voted
O blaidFor (42)
  • Lorraine Barrett
  • Mick Bates
  • Peter Black
  • Eleanor Burnham
  • Rosemary Butler
  • Christine Chapman
  • Jane Davidson
  • Andrew Davies
  • David Davies
  • Geraint Davies
  • Glyn Davies
  • Janet Davies
  • Jocelyn Davies
  • Sue Essex
  • Delyth Evans
  • Michael German
  • William Graham
  • Janice Gregory
  • John Griffiths
  • Brian Gibbons
  • Edwina Hart
  • Jane Hutt
  • Ann Jones
  • Carwyn Jones
  • David Ian Jones
  • Elin Jones
  • Gareth Jones
  • Peter Law
  • Huw Lewis
  • David Lloyd
  • Val Lloyd
  • Tom Middlehurst
  • Rhodri Morgan
  • Lynne Neagle
  • Alun Pugh
  • Jenny Randerson
  • Peter Rogers
  • Janet Ryder
  • Karen Sinclair
  • Rhodri Glyn Thomas
  • Dafydd Wigley
  • Kirsty Williams

Cymeradwyo’r Gorchymyn Siroedd wedi’u Cadw (Newid Ffiniau) (Cymru) 2003

Approval of the Preserved Counties (Amendment to Boundaries) (Wales) Order 2003

Edwina Hart The Finance Minister spoken in English p. 46

Edwina Hart Y Gweinidog Cyllid siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 46

I propose that

Cynigiaf fod

Edwina Hart The Finance Minister (continued) spoken in English p. 46

Edwina Hart Y Gweinidog Cyllid (parhad) siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 46

I propose that

Cynigiaf fod

Janet Davies spoken in English p. 47

Janet Davies siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 47

For those who are wondering, the preserved counties are those operated by the Lords Lieutenant and the High Sheriffs. The brief of Lords Lieutenant is to represent the Queen in her provinces, or, in our case, her principality. They are most obvious when escorting her when she visits her subjects in those areas. However, they also have a more significant role: they report on the activities of her subjects in such backwaters as ours, and formal meetings are held at least annually in some exotic or perhaps just medieval palaces.

Er mwyn y rhai sy’n meddwl tybed beth ydynt, y siroedd wedi’u cadw yw’r rhai a weithredir gan yr Arglwydd Raglawiaid a’r Uchel Siryfion. Maes gorchwyl Arglwydd Raglawiaid yw cynrychioli’r Frenhines yn ei thaleithiau, neu, yn ein hachos ni, ei thywysogaeth. Maent yn amlycaf pan ydynt yn ei hebrwng ar ei hymweliadau â’i deiliaid yn yr ardaloedd hynny. Fodd bynnag, mae rôl bwysicach iddynt hefyd: adroddant ar weithgareddau ei deiliaid mewn mannau diarffordd fel ein hun ni, a chynhelir cyfarfodydd ffurfiol unwaith y flwyddyn o leiaf mewn palasau ecsotig, neu ganoloesol o bosibl.

One can imagine how it was in the time of Elizabeth I, when intelligence on an incipient rebellion in the marches or on the activities of a Catholic spy would have been crucial. Imagine the heavily guarded secret meetings, held in oak-panelled rooms. In those days, the fastest carrier was a horse and rider; today we have almost instant transmission of information, not only throughout the United Kingdom, but throughout the world.

Gall rhywun ddychmygu sut yr oedd yn oes Elisabeth I, pan fyddai hysbysrwydd am gychwyn gwrthryfel yn y gororau neu am weithgareddau ysbïwr Catholig yn hollbwysig. Dychmygwch y cyfarfodydd cyfrinachol dan warchod, mewn ystafelloedd â phaneli derw. Yn y dyddiau hynny, y cludwr cyflymaf oedd ceffyl a marchog; heddiw gallwn drosglwyddo gwybodaeth ar unwaith bron, nid yn unig ledled y Deyrnas Unedig, ond ledled y byd.

This system was material in ensuring the submission of the Welsh people throughout the centuries—

Yr oedd y system hon yn bwysig wrth sicrhau ufudd-dod y Cymry drwy’r canrifoedd—

David Davies spoken in English p. 47

David Davies siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 47

Point of order.

Pwynt o drefn.

Dafydd Elis-Thomas The Presiding Officer spoken in English p. 47

Dafydd Elis-Thomas Y Llywydd siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 47

Order. I will call a point of order when Janet Davies completes her speech, which I find educative.

Trefn. Galwaf bwynt o drefn wedi i Janet Davies orffen ei haraith, yr wyf yn ei chael yn un addysgiadol.

Janet Davies spoken in English p. 47

Janet Davies siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 47

One could view this system as charming, if archaic, or as outdated and unnecessary or, perhaps, as an insult to the many people who run government throughout the UK, whether they are civil servants, council officers, politicians, or the people who work hard in Assembly sponsored public bodies or voluntary organisations. What is little realised is the hidden power that lies beneath government and civil society, power that is largely unseen and is greater than the power of the Assembly or its Government. Surely, in a democracy, such power should lie with elected bodies.

Gallai rhywun ystyried y system hon yn un hudolus, os hynafaidd, neu’n un hen-ffasiwn a diangen neu, efallai, yn sarhad ar y nifer fawr o bobl sy’n rhedeg llywodraeth ledled y DU, boed hwy’n weision sifil, yn swyddogion cyngor, yn wleidyddion, neu’n rhai sy’n gweithio’n galed mewn cyrff cyhoeddus a noddir gan y Cynulliad neu mewn cyrff gwirfoddol. Prin y sylweddolir y pŵer cudd sy’n sail i lywodraeth a chymdeithas sifil, pŵer sy’n anweledig gan mwyaf ac yn fwy na phŵer y Cynulliad neu’i Lywodraeth. Mewn democratiaeth, siawns nad gan gyrff etholedig y dylai pŵer o’r fath fod.

Some time ago, I looked up who the Lords Lieutenant were, because I thought that I had a subjective impression that they were preponderantly upper class, or even aristocratic, people. I wanted to disprove my ideas, but I failed. Even in Wales, which is the most egalitarian of the four countries of the United Kingdom, my impressions were confirmed, despite one or two notable exceptions.

Beth amser yn ôl, edrychais i weld pwy oedd yr Arglwydd Raglawiaid, gan fy mod yn credu fy mod dan argraff oddrychol mai rhai o’r dosbarth uchaf, neu rai uchelwrol hyd yn oed, oeddent gan mwyaf. Yr oeddwn am wrthbrofi fy syniadau, ond methais. Hyd yn oed yng Nghymru, y fwyaf cydraddol o bedair gwlad y Deyrnas Unedig, cadarnhawyd yr argraffiadau a oedd gennyf, er gwaethaf un neu ddau o eithriadau nodedig.

That concern can be addressed over time. What cannot be addressed under the Government of Wales Act 1998 is the existence of such an outdated system. I remember trying to explain it to an Oberbürgermeister from a town in southern Germany. He was mystified, but thrilled to meet such an important person. He had no doubts about where power lay in quaint old Britain.

Gellir rhoi sylw i’r pryder hwnnw dros amser. Yr hyn na ellir rhoi sylw iddo dan Ddeddf Llywodraeth Cymru 1998 yw bodolaeth system mor hen-ffasiwn. Cofiaf geisio ei hegluro i Oberbürgermeister o dref yn ne’r Almaen. Yr oedd mewn penbleth, ond wrth ei fodd o gyfarfod â rhywun mor bwysig. Nid oedd ganddo unrhyw amheuon o ran lle yr oedd y pŵer ym Mhrydain hen a hynod.

This motion concerns the preserved counties’ boundaries. The archaic system of establishment control that operates through these boundaries is even odder than Orders on Egyptian potatoes and spider crabs.

Mae’r cynnig hwn yn ymwneud â ffiniau siroedd wedi’u cadw. Mae’r system hynafaidd o reolaeth gan y sefydliad sy’n gweithredu drwy’r ffiniau hyn yn hynotach hyd yn oed na Gorchmynion ar datws o’r Aifft a chrancod heglog.

David Davies spoken in English p. 48

David Davies siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 48

Point of order. I cannot see what any of that had to do with the debate on preserved boundaries. That seemed to be a jackanory account of The Lord of the Rings.

Pwynt o drefn. Ni allaf weld beth a oedd a wnelo hynny o gwbl â’r ddadl ar ffiniau wedi’u cadw. Yr oedd hynny’n ymddangos yn ddisgrifiad o The Lord of the Rings ar gyfer plant.

Dafydd Elis-Thomas The Presiding Officer spoken in English p. 48

Dafydd Elis-Thomas Y Llywydd siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 48

I can assure David Davies that, if the matter were out of order—even at this late stage in our Assembly proceedings—it would not pass the attention of my advisers or myself. That was—and still is—a debate about preserved matters.

Gallaf sicrhau David Davies, pe na fuasai’r mater mewn trefn—hyd yn oed ar yr adeg hwyr hon yn ein trafodion fel Cynulliad—na fyddai wedi osgoi sylw fy nghynghorwyr neu finnau. Yr oedd honno—ac mae’n dal i fod—yn ddadl am faterion a gadwyd.

William Graham spoken in English p. 48

William Graham siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 48

Before I discuss this motion, I will counter some of Janet Davies’s remarks, which were an extraordinary attack on people who are, in reality, volunteers who do sterling work throughout our counties, not only in Wales but throughout the United Kingdom. They hold posts of honour, on a voluntary basis, and they have no real power, despite what Janet Davies said. They are invited to carry out duties, which, as far as I am aware, they do with the greatest dignity and respect.

Cyn imi drafod y cynnig, gwrthwynebaf rai o sylwadau Janet Davies, a oedd yn ymosodiad rhyfeddol ar rai sydd, mewn gwirionedd, yn wirfoddolwyr a wnaiff waith rhagorol ym mhob un o’n siroedd, nid yn unig yng Nghymru ond ledled y Deyrnas Unedig. Maent yn dal swyddi mygedol, a hynny’n wirfoddol, ac nid oes ganddynt bŵer gwirioneddol, er gwaethaf yr hyn a ddywedodd Janet Davies. Fe’u gwahoddir i gyflawni dyletswyddau a dyna wnânt gyda’r parch a’r urddas mwyaf, hyd y gwn i.

The Welsh Conservatives will vote against this motion, not because we believe that the commission did not conduct the review adequately, but because its conclusions are at odds with the evidence submitted.

Bydd Ceidwadwyr Cymru yn pleidleisio yn erbyn y cynnig hwn, nid am ein bod yn credu na chynhaliodd y comisiwn yr adolygiad yn ddigonol, ond am fod ei gasgliadau’n groes i’r dystiolaeth a gyflwynwyd.

Edwina Hart The Finance Minister spoken in English p. 49

Edwina Hart Y Gweinidog Cyllid siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 49

I will first refer to the Welsh Conservatives, who will oppose these proposals. They suggested that Conwy should be transferred to Clwyd and that Caerphilly should be included in Mid Glamorgan. The commission considered the representations in full, and decided that Caerphilly should be included in Gwent, because, although Caerphilly has an affinity to Merthyr Tydfil, it has closer ties with the Rhymney area, including Tredegar and Ebbw Vale, which are in the preserved county of Gwent. Gwent police and health authority have jurisdiction in the unitary authority of Caerphilly, and the local authority itself is in favour of being included in Gwent. I have asked local government officials to consider these issues, so that the necessary parliamentary work can be undertaken.

Cyfeiriaf yn gyntaf at Geidwadwyr Cymru, a fydd yn gwrthwynebu’r cynigion hyn. Awgrymasant y dylid trosglwyddo Conwy i Glwyd ac y dylid cynnwys Caerffili ym Morgannwg Ganol. Gwnaeth y comisiwn ystyried y sylwadau a gafodd yn llawn, a phenderfynu y dylid cynnwys Caerffili yng Ngwent, oherwydd, er bod gan Gaerffili gyswllt â Merthyr Tudful, mae ganddi gysylltiadau agosach ag ardal Rhymni, gan gynnwys Tredegar a Glynebwy, sydd yn sir gadwedig Gwent. Mae gan heddlu ac awdurdod iechyd Gwent awdurdodaeth yn awdurdod unedol Caerffili, ac mae’r awdurdod lleol ei hun o blaid ei gynnwys yng Ngwent. Yr wyf wedi gofyn i swyddogion llywodraeth leol ystyried y materion hyn, fel y gellir ymgymryd â’r gwaith seneddol sydd ei angen.

Cynnig NDM1449 Edwina Hart t. 49

Motion NDM1449 Edwina Hart p. 49

DerbyniwydAdopted O blaidFor 31 YmatalAbstain 8 Yn erbynAgainst 5

Derbyniwyd y cynnig.

Motion carried.

Sut y pleidleisiodd yr AelodauHow Members voted
O blaidFor (31)
  • Lorraine Barrett
  • Mick Bates
  • Peter Black
  • Eleanor Burnham
  • Rosemary Butler
  • Christine Chapman
  • Jane Davidson
  • Andrew Davies
  • Sue Essex
  • Delyth Evans
  • Michael German
  • Brian Gibbons
  • Janice Gregory
  • John Griffiths
  • Alison Halford
  • Brian Hancock
  • Edwina Hart
  • Jane Hutt
  • Ann Jones
  • Carwyn Jones
  • Peter Law
  • Huw Lewis
  • Val Lloyd
  • Tom Middlehurst
  • Rhodri Morgan
  • Lynne Neagle
  • Alun Pugh
  • Jenny Randerson
  • Karen Sinclair
  • Gwenda Thomas
  • Kirsty Williams
YmatalAbstain (8)
  • Geraint Davies
  • Jocelyn Davies
  • Elin Jones
  • Gareth Jones
  • David Lloyd
  • Janet Ryder
  • Owen John Thomas
  • Rhodri Glyn Thomas
Yn erbynAgainst (5)
  • David Davies
  • Glyn Davies
  • William Graham
  • David Ian Jones
  • Peter Rogers

Cynnig NDM1450 Edwina Hart t. 50

Motion NDM1450 Edwina Hart p. 50

DerbyniwydAdopted O blaidFor 30 YmatalAbstain 8 Yn erbynAgainst 3

Derbyniwyd y cynnig.

Motion carried.

Sut y pleidleisiodd yr AelodauHow Members voted
O blaidFor (30)
  • Lorraine Barrett
  • Mick Bates
  • Peter Black
  • Eleanor Burnham
  • Rosemary Butler
  • Christine Chapman
  • Jane Davidson
  • Sue Essex
  • Delyth Evans
  • Michael German
  • Brian Gibbons
  • Janice Gregory
  • John Griffiths
  • Alison Halford
  • Brian Hancock
  • Edwina Hart
  • Jane Hutt
  • Ann Jones
  • Carwyn Jones
  • Peter Law
  • Huw Lewis
  • Val Lloyd
  • Tom Middlehurst
  • Rhodri Morgan
  • Lynne Neagle
  • Alun Pugh
  • Jenny Randerson
  • Karen Sinclair
  • Gwenda Thomas
  • Kirsty Williams
YmatalAbstain (8)
  • Geraint Davies
  • Jocelyn Davies
  • Elin Jones
  • Gareth Jones
  • David Lloyd
  • Janet Ryder
  • Owen John Thomas
  • Rhodri Glyn Thomas
Yn erbynAgainst (3)
  • Glyn Davies
  • William Graham
  • David Ian Jones

Cymeradwyo Rheoliadau’r Comisiwn Gwella Iechyd (Swyddogaethau) 2003

Approval of the Commission for Health Improvement (Functions) Regulations 2003

Jane Hutt The Minister for Health and Social Services spoken in English p. 51

Jane Hutt Y Gweinidog dros Iechyd a Gwasanaethau Cymdeithasol siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 51

I propose that

Cynigiaf fod

Dafydd Elis-Thomas Y Llywydd siaradwyd yn Gymraeg t. 51

Dafydd Elis-Thomas The Presiding Officer spoken in Welsh p. 51

Gwelaf nad oes siaradwyr ar y cynnig hwn, felly symudwn yn syth i bleidlais.

I see that there are no speakers on this motion, so we will move directly to a vote.

DerbyniwydAdopted O blaidFor 46 YmatalAbstain 0 Yn erbynAgainst 0

Derbyniwyd y cynnig.

Motion carried.

Sut y pleidleisiodd yr AelodauHow Members voted
O blaidFor (46)
  • Lorraine Barrett
  • Mick Bates
  • Peter Black
  • Eleanor Burnham
  • Rosemary Butler
  • Christine Chapman
  • Jane Davidson
  • Andrew Davies
  • Geraint Davies
  • Glyn Davies
  • Janet Davies
  • Jocelyn Davies
  • Sue Essex
  • Delyth Evans
  • Michael German
  • William Graham
  • Janice Gregory
  • John Griffiths
  • Brian Gibbons
  • Christine Gwyther
  • Alison Halford
  • Brian Hancock
  • Edwina Hart
  • Jane Hutt
  • Ann Jones
  • Carwyn Jones
  • David Ian Jones
  • Elin Jones
  • Gareth Jones
  • Peter Law
  • Huw Lewis
  • David Lloyd
  • Val Lloyd
  • Tom Middlehurst
  • Rhodri Morgan
  • Lynne Neagle
  • Alun Pugh
  • Jenny Randerson
  • Peter Rogers
  • Janet Ryder
  • Karen Sinclair
  • Gwenda Thomas
  • Owen John Thomas
  • Rhodri Glyn Thomas
  • Dafydd Wigley
  • Kirsty Williams

Cymeradwyo Cod Cyfarwyddyd i Awdurdodau Lleol ar Ddyrannu Llety a Digartrefedd

Approval of the Code of Guidance for Local Authorities on Allocation of Accommodation and Homelessness

Dafydd Elis-Thomas The Presiding Officer spoken in English p. 52

Dafydd Elis-Thomas Y Llywydd siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 52

I have selected amendments 1 and 2 in the name of Jonathan Morgan to NDM1453.

Yr wyf wedi dethol gwelliannau 1 a 2 yn enw Jonathan Morgan i NDM1453.

Edwina Hart The Finance Minister spoken in English p. 52

Edwina Hart Y Gweinidog Cyllid siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 52

I propose that

Cynigiaf fod

Edwina Hart The Finance Minister (continued) spoken in English p. 52

Edwina Hart Y Gweinidog Cyllid (parhad) siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 52

I propose that

Cynigiaf fod

Edwina Hart The Finance Minister (continued) spoken in English p. 52

Edwina Hart Y Gweinidog Cyllid (parhad) siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 52

This motion has been tabled to give Members the opportunity to consider the Code of Guidance on Allocation of Accommodation and Homelessness for Local Authorities, and also to agree to the code of guidance being given statutory status under Standing Order No. 27. The Assembly Government has the power to issue guidance to local authorities to assist in the exercise of its functions relating to the allocation of accommodation, homelessness, and the prevention of homelessness. As a result of the recent changes to allocations and homelessness legislation made by the Homelessness Act 2002, the Assembly Government needed to revise its existing statutory guidance. The revised guidance reflects the amendments made by the Homelessness Act 2002 and also the priority need Order, which came into effect on 1 March 2001. It explains how local authorities should meet their responsibilities when providing allocation and homelessness services. The guidance also reflects the policy positions established in previous consultations, such as that by the Homelessness Commission, and the Lettings Sounding Board. The revised code of guidance was issued for consultation in October 2002 to a wide range of voluntary and statutory agencies working with the social housing sector. The consultation period expired on 17 January, and 14 responses were received. Additional discussions took place on the guidance at a consultation event in Swansea in January, where debate focused on creating joined-up solutions at the local level.

Cyflwynwyd y cynnig hwn er mwyn rhoi cyfle i Aelodau ystyried y Cod Cyfarwyddyd ar Ddyrannu Llety a Digartrefedd i Awdurdodau Lleol, a hefyd i gytuno i roi statws statudol i’r cod cyfarwyddyd o dan Reol Sefydlog Rhif 27. Mae gan Lywodraeth y Cynulliad bŵer i roi cyfarwyddyd i awdurdodau lleol i’w helpu i gyflawni eu swyddogaethau o ran dyrannu llety, digartrefedd, ac atal digartrefedd. O ganlyniad i’r newidiadau diweddar i ddeddfwriaeth ar ddyrannu a digartrefedd a wnaed drwy’r Ddeddf Digartrefedd 2002, yr oedd angen i Lywodraeth y Cynulliad adolygu ei chyfarwyddyd statudol presennol. Mae’r cyfarwyddyd diwygiedig yn adlewyrchu’r newidiadau a wnaed drwy’r Ddeddf Digartrefedd 2002 a hefyd y Gorchymyn angen blaenoriaethol, a ddaeth i rym ar 1 Mawrth 2001. Mae’n egluro sut y dylai awdurdodau lleol gyflawni eu cyfrifoldebau wrth ddarparu gwasanaethau dyrannu a digartrefedd. Mae’r cyfarwyddyd hefyd yn adlewyrchu’r safbwyntiau polisi a bennwyd mewn ymgynghoriadau blaenorol, fel hwnnw gan y Comisiwn Digartrefedd, a’r Seinfwrdd Gosod Tai. Dosbarthwyd y cod cyfarwyddyd diwygiedig ar gyfer y broses ymgynghori yn Hydref 2002 i amrediad eang o asiantaethau gwirfoddol a statudol sy’n gweithio gyda’r sector tai cymdeithasol. Daeth y cyfnod ymgynghori i ben ar 17 Ionawr, a daeth 14 ymateb i law. Cafwyd trafodaethau ychwanegol ar y cyfarwyddyd mewn digwyddiad ymgynghori yn Abertawe yn Ionawr, lle yr oedd y trafod yn canolbwyntio ar greu atebion cydgysylltiedig ar lefel leol.

Local Government and Housing Committee members considered an earlier draft of the code of guidance on 29 January. Officials noted the observations raised by the Committee, and addressed these in the final version before you today. The code of guidance provides detailed technical guidance needed or requested by local authorities—indeed, this is one area where the Assembly Government has been asked to provide an even more prescriptive framework. I am pleased to report that the code of guidance has been favourably received by the statutory and voluntary sectors.

Gwnaeth aelodau’r Pwyllgor Llywodraeth Leol a Thai ystyried drafft cynharach o’r cod cyfarwyddyd ar 29 Ionawr. Nododd swyddogion y sylwadau a fynegwyd gan y Pwyllgor, a rhoddwyd sylw iddynt yn y fersiwn terfynol sydd ger eich bron heddiw. Mae’r cod cyfarwyddyd yn cynnig cyfarwyddyd technegol manwl y mae ar awdurdodau lleol ei angen neu y gwnaethant gais amdano—yn wir, dyma un maes lle y gofynnwyd i Lywodraeth y Cynulliad ddarparu fframwaith mwy cyfarwyddol byth. Yr wyf yn falch o adrodd bod y cod cyfarwyddyd wedi cael derbyniad ffafriol gan y sectorau statudol a gwirfoddol.

I reject amendment 1 tabled by Jonathan Morgan. As I have already indicated, officials have extensively consulted with independent organisations across all sectors, and there has been ample opportunity for them to respond to the consultation process. Representatives from voluntary organisations sit on the homelessness strategies working group. I also reject amendment 2 tabled by Jonathan Morgan. The Assembly Government recognises the existing pressures on local authority housing stock, and has recently made secondary legislation reducing the maximum discount limit on right to buy properties, which has come into effect. The Assembly Government will only be able to review the need for additional resources in the light of the local homelessness strategies in September this year. I ask Members to support the motions.

Gwrthodaf welliant 1 a gyflwynwyd gan Jonathan Morgan. Fel y nodais eisoes, mae swyddogion wedi ymgynghori’n helaeth â chyrff annibynnol yn yr holl sectorau, a chawsant ddigon o gyfle i ymateb i’r broses ymgynghori. Mae cynrychiolwyr cyrff gwirfoddol yn eistedd ar y gweithgor strategaethau digartrefedd. Yr wyf hefyd yn gwrthod gwelliant 2 a gyflwynwyd gan Jonathan Morgan. Mae Llywodraeth y Cynulliad yn cydnabod y pwysau sydd ar stoc dai yr awdurdodau lleol ar hyn o bryd, a gwnaeth is-ddeddfwriaeth yn ddiweddar sy’n gostwng terfyn y disgownt mwyaf ar dai lle y mae hawl i brynu, a daeth honno i rym. Ni fydd Llywodraeth y Cynulliad ond yn gallu adolygu’r angen am adnoddau ychwanegol yng ngoleuni’r strategaethau digartrefedd lleol ym mis Medi eleni. Gofynnaf i Aelodau gefnogi’r cynigion.

William Graham spoken in English p. 54

William Graham siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 54

I propose the following amendments to NDM1453 in the name of Jonathan Morgan. Amendment 1: add a new point at the end of the motion:

Cynigiaf y gwelliannau canlynol i NDM1453 yn enw Jonathan Morgan. Gwelliant 1: ychwanegu pwynt newydd ar ddiwedd y cynnig:

William Graham (continued) spoken in English p. 54

William Graham (parhad) siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 54

I propose amendment 2: add a new point at the end of the motion:

Cynigiaf gwelliant 2: ychwanegu pwynt newydd ar ddiwedd y cynnig:

William Graham (continued) spoken in English p. 54

William Graham (parhad) siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 54

The code of guidance is, in many ways, a missed opportunity, in that it details procedures of good office practice. The need for such a comprehensive code either indicates the failure of our local authorities to implement good office practices, or the failure of the Welsh Assembly Government to ensure uniformity of procedures throughout Wales. We all recognise that being homeless must be the worst level of social exclusion and deprivation. The code of guidance assesses how the problem should have been administered, and outlines the good management practices that support the administrative process. The introduction to this code clearly specifies the reliance on good management practice and informs local authorities that the code is not a substitute for legislation, that they need to be familiar with the statutory provisions and that they need to keep in touch with appropriate developments.

Cyfle a gollwyd yw’r cod cyfarwyddyd hwn, ar lawer ystyr, i’r graddau ei fod yn rhestru gweithdrefnau o arferion swyddfa da. Mae’r angen am god mor gynhwysfawr un ai’n dangos methiant ar ran ein hawdurdodau lleol i roi arferion swyddfa da ar waith, neu fethiant gan Lywodraeth Cynulliad Cymru i sicrhau gweithdrefnau unffurf ledled Cymru. Yr ydym oll yn cydnabod mai digartrefedd yw’r math gwaethaf o amddifadedd ac allgáu cymdeithasol. Mae’r cod cyfarwyddyd yn asesu sut y dylesid gweinyddu’r broblem, ac yn disgrifio’r arferion rheoli da sy’n cynnal y broses weinyddu. Mae’r rhagymadrodd i’r cod hwn yn nodi’n eglur y ddibyniaeth ar arferion rheoli da ac yn hysbysu awdurdodau lleol nad yw’r cod yn cymryd lle deddfwriaeth, bod angen iddynt fod yn gyfarwydd â’r darpariaethau statudol ac y dylent gadw mewn cysylltiad â datblygiadau perthnasol.

The Welsh Conservative group has continually outlined the diminishing role of local authorities in providing homes for people in Wales. We have demonstrated their inefficiency in housing management, particularly—

Mae grŵp Ceidwadwyr Cymru wedi disgrifio’n barhaus y rôl leihaol sydd gan awdurdodau lleol wrth ddarparu cartrefi ar gyfer pobl yng Nghymru. Yr ydym wedi dangos eu bod yn aneffeithlon wrth reoli tai, yn enwedig—

Peter Black spoken in English p. 55

Peter Black siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 55

I am fascinated by the Conservative amendment deploring the decrease in local authority homes, given that it was your party that introduced the right to buy scheme. How do you reconcile that amendment with the policy in your manifesto, published yesterday, to extend the right to buy scheme around Wales?

Fe’m cyfareddwyd gan y gwelliant o eiddo’r Ceidwadwyr sy’n gresynu at y gostyngiad yn nifer y cartrefi awdurdod lleol, o gofio mai’ch plaid chi a gyflwynodd y cynllun hawl i brynu. Sut yr ydych yn cysoni’r gwelliant hwnnw â’r polisi yn eich maniffesto, a gyhoeddwyd ddoe, i ymestyn y cynllun hawl i brynu ledled Cymru?

William Graham spoken in English p. 55

William Graham siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 55

I will deal with your question in my comments.

Ymdriniaf â’ch cwestiwn yn fy sylwadau.

The main housing provider in Wales is the independent sector. It continues to react to the demand for housing and to meet the aspirations of the majority of tenants who seek to own their own home. In answer to Peter Black’s question, the homes sold by local authorities across Wales have not disappeared: many are let to tenants and many are owner-occupied. They have not disappeared.

Y prif ddarparwr tai yng Nghymru yw’r sector annibynnol. Deil i ymateb i’r galw am dai ac i gyflawni dyheadau’r rhan fwyaf o denantiaid sy’n ceisio dod yn berchen ar eu cartrefi. Er mwyn ateb cwestiwn Peter Black, nid yw’r cartrefi a werthwyd gan awdurdodau lleol ledled Cymru wedi diflannu: caiff llawer eu gosod i denantiaid a’r perchnogion sy’n meddianu llawer ohonynt. Nid ydynt wedi diflannu.

Peter Black spoken in English p. 55

Peter Black siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 55

Is it not the case that one reason why people have difficulty in finding a house, particularly when they are in difficulties or suffering from social exclusion, is because there are no adequate homes available to rent?

Onid yw’n wir mai un o’r rhesymau pam y mae pobl yn ei chael yn anodd dod o hyd i dŷ, yn enwedig os ydynt mewn trafferthion neu’n dioddef gan allgáu cymdeithasol, yw nad oes cartrefi digonol ar gael i’w rhentu?

William Graham spoken in English p. 55

William Graham siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 55

I agree with your point, but many Welsh local authorities have a large number of homes that are unavailable to homeless people or to anyone else. You will know that vast numbers of houses in local authority ownership in Cardiff are empty and not available to rent.

Cytunaf â’r pwynt a wnaethoch, ond mae gan lawer o awdurdodau lleol yng Nghymru nifer fawr o gartrefi nad ydynt ar gael i bobl ddigartref nac i neb arall. Gwyddoch fod niferoedd mawr o dai sy’n eiddo i’r awdurdod lleol yng Nghaerdydd yn wag ac nad ydynt ar gael i’w gosod ar rent.

Janet Ryder spoken in English p. 55

Janet Ryder siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 55

I am bemused by your persistence in insisting that you can pursue a right-to-buy policy without curtailing an authority’s ability to offer rented accommodation. You have not explained that fully in answer to Peter Black’s question. There is a difference between what you are trying to achieve through the amendment and what you say in your manifesto.

Yr wyf mewn penbleth ynghylch y ffaith eich bod yn dal i fynnu y gellir dilyn polisi hawl-i-brynu heb leihau gallu awdurdod i gynnig llety ar osod. Ni wnaethoch egluro hynny’n llawn wrth ateb cwestiwn Peter Black. Mae gwahaniaeth rhwng yr hyn y ceisiwch ei gyflawni drwy’r gwelliant a’r hyn a ddywedwch yn eich maniffesto.

William Graham spoken in English p. 56

William Graham siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 56

The manifesto is clear. You will know that, during our period in Government, huge sums of money were allocated from local authorities to registered social landlords to provide the sort of housing that we are discussing today. [Interruption.] I will not pursue that point further.

Mae’r maniffesto’n glir. Gwyddoch fod symiau mawr o arian wedi’u dyrannu oddi wrth awdurdodau lleol i landlordiaid cymdeithasol cofrestredig yn ystod ein cyfnod mewn Llywodraeth i ddarparu’r math o dai yr ydym yn eu trafod heddiw. [Torri ar draws.] Ni ddilynaf y pwynt hwnnw ymhellach.

If we are to tackle homelessness we should not look backwards and attempt to fit the homeless into a diminishing number of properties. We should not handcuff local authorities. We must provide social housing through registered social landlords. That is the aim in ‘Better Homes for People in Wales’, which we have endorsed.

Os ydym i fynd i’r afael â digartrefedd, ni ddylem edrych yn ôl a cheisio ffitio’r digartref i nifer lai o dai. Ni ddylem gloffrwymo awdurdodau lleol. Rhaid inni ddarparu tai cymdeithasol drwy landlordiaid cymdeithasol cofrestredig. Dyna’r nod yn ‘Cartrefi Gwell i Bobl Cymru’, a gymeradwywyd gennym.

The homeless in rural Wales deserve more than to be dismissed with a comment in the homelessness strategy, stating that:

Mae’r digartref yng Nghymru wledig yn haeddu mwy na’u hwfftio gan sylw yn y strategaeth ddigartrefedd, sy’n datgan:

‘the Assembly Government will support the development of good practice in the provision of homelessness services in rural areas.’

bydd Llywodraeth y Cynulliad yn cefnogi’r gwaith o ddatblygu arferion da wrth ddarparu gwasanaethau digartrefedd mewn ardaloedd gwledig.

I acknowledge that the Minister has brought forward measures in the Assembly that will hopefully help to reduce those significant problems in rural areas. Local authorities and this administration have failed to deliver improvements to our housing stock. The supply of new housing for low-income families has fallen by a third. That has a major impact in Wales because of the disproportionate number of people on lower incomes. In fact, 8.7 per cent of all Welsh housing stock fails to meet the decent homes standard, which affects the vulnerable.

Cydnabyddaf fod y Gweinidog wedi rhoi mesurau gerbron yn y Cynulliad a fydd o gymorth, gobeithio, i leihau’r problemau sylweddol hynny mewn ardaloedd gwledig. Mae awdurdodau lleol a’r weinyddiaeth hon wedi methu â chyflawni gwelliannau yn ein stoc dai. Mae’r cyflenwad o dai newydd ar gyfer teuluoedd ar incwm isel wedi gostwng o un rhan o dair. Caiff hynny effaith fawr yng Nghymru am fod y nifer o bobl ar incwm is yn uwch na’r cyfartaledd. Mewn gwirionedd, mae 8.7 y cant o’r stoc dai gyfan yng Nghymru’n is na’r safon ar gyfer tai gweddus, sy’n effeithio ar rai sy’n agored i niwed.

Local authorities in Wales currently spend less on social housing than they did in 1999 and, although there has been an increase during the last two years, it fails to make up for the reduction in the first two years of this Assembly. We note, with concern, that the number of evictions is increasing and, although the code of guidance outlines procedures for dealing with anti-social behaviour, it reflects on the problem without promoting a solution. The strategy talks through the problems, but fails to deliver policies to resolve the matter. We need to ensure that, together, we plan for integrated developments that incorporate the provision of additional social housing. We wish to increase the choice available to those seeking social housing and a better standard of accommodation, and encourage people to become fully integrated in our communities.

Ar hyn o bryd, mae awdurdodau lleol yng Nghymru’n gwario llai ar dai cymdeithasol nag yr oeddent yn 1999 ac, er y bu cynnydd yn y ddwy flynedd diwethaf, mae’n methu â gwneud iawn am y gostyngiad yn nwy flynedd cyntaf y Cynulliad hwn. Nodwn, yn bryderus, fod cynnydd yn nifer yr achosion o ddadfeddiannu ac, er bod y cod cyfarwyddyd yn disgrifio gweithdrefnau ar gyfer delio ag ymddygiad gwrthgymdeithasol, mae’n ystyried y broblem heb gynnig ateb. Mae’r strategaeth yn trafod y problemau, ond metha â chynnig polisïau i ddatrys y mater. Rhaid inni sicrhau ein bod yn cynllunio, gyda’n gilydd, ar gyfer datblygiadau integredig sy’n cynnwys darparu tai cymdeithasol ychwanegol. Dymunwn sicrhau bod mwy o ddewis ar gael i’r rhai sy’n ceisio tai cymdeithasol a bod safon y llety’n uwch, a chymell pobl i integreiddio’n llawn yn ein cymunedau.

Janet Ryder spoken in English p. 57

Janet Ryder siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 57

Can you confirm that we are having two debates on this issue and that this debate is on the guidance issued to local authorities?

A allwch gadarnhau ein bod yn cael dwy ddadl ar y pwnc hwn a bod y ddadl hon yn un am y cyfarwyddyd a roddwyd i awdurdodau lleol?

Edwina Hart The Finance Minister spoken in English p. 57

Edwina Hart Y Gweinidog Cyllid siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 57

Yes.

Gallaf.

Janet Ryder spoken in English p. 57

Janet Ryder siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 57

Thank you for clarifying that, Minister.

Diolch i chi am egluro hynny, Weinidog.

As was said in Committee, this guidance sets the parameters within which local authorities will operate this homelessness strategy and their allocation strategies. However, I will raise two concerns; I know that they have been raised in Committee, but they persist. The first is that homeless people and those living in refuges, particularly women, should be made aware that they have a choice of accommodation. They are not obliged to take the first place offered to them; it is often not suitable for their needs. Housing officials need to be trained to raise awareness of that guidance among those seeking accommodation. Secondly, we must consider joint waiting lists between housing associations and councils. We do not want to face the problem of people waiting on a council list without having also applied to the local housing association. One housing list would counter that problem.

Fel y dywedwyd yn y Pwyllgor, y cyfarwyddyd hwn sy’n pennu’r paramedrau y bydd awdurdodau’n cadw atynt wrth weithredu’r strategaeth ddigartrefedd hon a’u strategaethau dyrannu. Fodd bynnag, tynnaf sylw at ddau bryder; gwn eu bod wedi’u codi yn y Pwyllgor, ond maent yn parhau. Y cyntaf yw y dylai pobl ddigartref a’r rhai sy’n byw mewn llochesau, yn enwedig menywod, gael eu hysbysu bod ganddynt ddewis o lety. Nid ydynt yn gorfod derbyn y lle cyntaf a gynigir iddynt; yn aml, nid yw’n addas i’w anghenion. Rhaid hyfforddi swyddogion tai i hybu ymwybyddiaeth o’r cyfarwyddyd hwnnw ymysg y rhai sy’n ceisio llety. Yn ail, rhaid inni ystyried rhestrau aros ar y cyd rhwng cymdeithasau tai a chynghorau. Nid ydym am wynebu’r broblem o gael pobl yn disgwyl ar restr cyngor a hwythau heb ymgeisio hefyd i’r gymdeithas dai leol. Byddai un rhestr dai yn fodd i ddatrys y broblem honno.

That leads me to speak to the Tory amendments. We will discuss the delivery of the homelessness strategy in the next debate. It is difficult to deliver initiatives such as this without working with partners, but I wonder at the involvement of independent providers. We are talking mainly about accommodation for homeless people, not executive flats built on greenfield sites. People need good-quality housing. I have found that independent providers offer houses of multiple occupation with living standards that are not always that high. Plaid Cymru is happy to work with the independent sector to develop an adequately strong licensing scheme, which would ensure good-quality accommodation across all sectors, whether via independent providers, housing associations, or local authorities. Some independent providers have not given the sector a good reputation, and we would like to see those few people—or perhaps not so few—dealt with.

Mae hynny’n fy arwain i siarad ar destun gwelliannau’r Torïaid. Gwnawn drafod y dull o gyflawni’r strategaeth digartrefedd yn y ddadl nesaf. Anodd yw cyflawni mentrau o’r fath heb weithio gyda phartneriaid, ond yr wyf yn amheus ynghylch y rhan a gymer darparwyr annibynnol. Yr ydym yn sôn yn bennaf am lety ar gyfer pobl ddigartref, nid fflatiau moethus a godir ar safleoedd tir glas. Mae ar bobl angen tai o ansawdd da. Cefais fod darparwyr annibynnol yn cynnig tai amlfeddiant â safonau byw nad ydynt bob amser mor uchel â hynny. Mae Plaid Cymru yn fodlon gweithio gyda’r sector annibynnol i ddatblygu cynllun trwyddedu digon cadarn, a fyddai’n sicrhau llety o ansawdd da ym mhob sector, boed hynny drwy ddarparwyr annibynnol, cymdeithasau tai, neu awdurdodau lleol. Mae rhai darparwyr annibynnol nad ydynt wedi rhoi enw da i’r sector, a hoffem weld camau i ddelio â’r ychydig bobl hynny—neu fwy nag ychydig, o bosibl.

On amendment 2 in the name of Jonathan Morgan, there has been a decrease in social housing and Plaid Cymru deplores the lack of expenditure on it. However, as Peter Black said, this matter goes back to the sell-off of council housing that led to the stock shortage. Who started that policy and who would not let capital receipts be used for new build? The blame falls squarely at the feet of the Conservative Party. It is hypocritical of them to talk about a lack of social housing when one of their main policies—one that they continue to pursue—restricts the availability of social housing.

Ynghylch gwelliant 2 yn enw Jonathan Morgan, bu gostyngiad yn nifer y tai cymdeithasol ac mae Plaid Cymru yn gresynu at y diffyg gwario ar hynny. Fodd bynnag, fel y dywedodd Peter Black, mae’r mater hwn yn deillio o’r gwerthu a fu ar dai cyngor a arweiniodd at y prinder stoc. Pwy a sefydlodd y polisi hwnnw a phwy na chaniatâi ddefnyddio derbyniadau cyfalaf i adeiladu tai newydd? Mae’r bai bai cyfan am hyn ar y Blaid Geidwadol. Rhagrith ar eu rhan yw sôn am ddiffyg tai cymdeithasol tra bo un o’u prif bolisïau—un y maent yn dal i’w ddilyn—yn cyfyngu ar nifer y tai cymdeithasol sydd ar gael.

Eleanor Burnham spoken in English p. 58

Eleanor Burnham siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 58

The Welsh Liberal Democrats are pleased to support this motion, as we should do everything in our power to reduce homelessness, which perpetuates social exclusion and deprivation. It is fundamental that local authorities establish their homelessness strategies to tackle this unacceptable situation. It is important that homeless people contribute to local strategy development.

Mae Democratiaid Rhyddfrydol Cymru yn falch o gefnogi’r cynnig hwn, gan y dylem wneud pob dim yn ein gallu i leihau digartrefedd, sy’n parhau amddifadedd ac allgáu cymdeithasol. Mae’n hollbwysig bod awdurdodau lleol yn sefydlu eu strategaethau digartrefedd er mwyn ymdrin â’r sefyllfa annerbyniol hon. Mae’n bwysig bod pobl ddigartref yn cyfrannu at ddatblygu strategaeth leol.

The Assembly Government recommends the development of community housing agreements, and good advice is a cornerstone of the prevention of homelessness. Good advice should be accompanied by appropriate assistance, including advocacy services. Local authorities and registered social landlords must be allowed the flexibility to respond to their customers’ needs at community and estate level. The ultimate goal should be more accessible services that are sensitive to the needs of all homeless groups.

Mae Llywodraeth y Cynulliad yn argymell y dylid datblygu cytundebau tai cymunedol, ac mae cyngor da yn gonglfaen ar gyfer atal digartrefedd. Dylai cymorth priodol, gan gynnwys gwasanaethau eirioli, gyd-fynd â chyngor da. Rhaid rhoi hyblygrwydd i awdurdodau lleol a landlordiaid cymdeithasol cofrestredig fel y gallant ymateb i anghenion eu cwsmeriaid ar lefel y gymuned a’r ystâd. Y nod briodol yn y pen draw yw sicrhau gwasanaethau mwy hygyrch sy’n ymatebol i anghenion pob grŵp o bobl ddigartref.

Edwina Hart The Finance Minister spoken in English p. 59

Edwina Hart Y Gweinidog Cyllid siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 59

I will concentrate on the issues relating to the technical guidance and the Orders. William made a point about regulation in general, but local authorities requested this technical guidance. It is one instance of them wanting more regulation. Following discussion in Committee, we will send a loose-leaf binder to local authorities. Revisions are always made to such Orders, and so new regulations can simply be placed in the binder, with a note showing the date of revision.

Gwnaf ganolbwyntio ar y materion sy’n ymwneud â’r cyfarwyddyd technegol a’r Gorchmynion. Gwnaeth William bwynt am reoleiddio’n gyffredinol, ond awdurdodau lleol a ofynnodd am y cyfarwyddyd technegol hwn. Dyma un achos lle yr oeddent am gael mwy o reoleiddio. Yn dilyn trafodaethau’r Pwyllgor, byddwn yn anfon casys cadw â dalennau rhydd i awdurdodau lleol. Gwneir newidiadau i Orchmynion o’r fath yn ddieithriad, felly gellir rhoi rheoliadau newydd yn y cas, gyda nodyn i ddangos dyddiad y newid.

On Janet’s point, affording women in refuges a choice of accommodation is an issue, and raising awareness of that choice will require particular training. There will be issues arising from stock transfer. I hope that our work in north and south Wales on lettings policies and our work in the social housing market between housing associations and local authorities will have a positive impact on people’s ability to choose the type of accommodation in which they want to live. I commend the regulations to Members.

Ynghylch y pwynt a wnaeth Janet, mae cynnig dewis o lety i fenywod mewn llochesau’n fater sy’n codi, a bydd angen hyfforddiant penodol er mwyn hybu ymwybyddiaeth o’r dewis hwnnw. Bydd materion yn codi o drosglwyddo’r stoc. Hyderaf y bydd ein gwaith yn y De a’r Gogledd ar bolisïau gosod a’n gwaith yn y farchnad dai cymdeithasol rhwng cymdeithasau tai ac awdurdodau lleol yn cael effaith gadarnhaol ar allu pobl i ddewis y math o lety y dymunant fyw ynddo. Cymeradwyaf y rheoliadau i Aelodau.

Gwelliant 1 William Graham t. 59

Amendment 1 William Graham p. 59

GwrthodwydRejected O blaidFor 3 YmatalAbstain 0 Yn erbynAgainst 27

Gwrthodwyd y gwelliant.

Amendment rejected.

Sut y pleidleisiodd yr AelodauHow Members voted
O blaidFor (3)
  • Andrew Davies
  • William Graham
  • David Ian Jones
Yn erbynAgainst (27)
  • Lorraine Barrett
  • Peter Black
  • Eleanor Burnham
  • Rosemary Butler
  • Jane Davidson
  • Geraint Davies
  • Brian Gibbons
  • Janice Gregory
  • John Griffiths
  • Christine Gwyther
  • Alison Halford
  • Brian Hancock
  • Edwina Hart
  • Jane Hutt
  • Ann Jones
  • Peter Law
  • David Lloyd
  • Val Lloyd
  • Tom Middlehurst
  • Rhodri Morgan
  • Alun Pugh
  • Janet Ryder
  • Karen Sinclair
  • Owen John Thomas
  • Rhodri Glyn Thomas
  • Dafydd Wigley
  • Phil Williams

Gwelliant 2 William Graham t. 60

Amendment 2 William Graham p. 60

GwrthodwydRejected O blaidFor 3 YmatalAbstain 0 Yn erbynAgainst 31

Gwrthodwyd y gwelliant.

Amendment rejected.

Sut y pleidleisiodd yr AelodauHow Members voted
O blaidFor (3)
  • Glyn Davies
  • William Graham
  • David Ian Jones
Yn erbynAgainst (31)
  • Lorraine Barrett
  • Peter Black
  • Eleanor Burnham
  • Rosemary Butler
  • Jane Davidson
  • Andrew Davies
  • Geraint Davies
  • Sue Essex
  • Michael German
  • Brian Gibbons
  • Janice Gregory
  • John Griffiths
  • Christine Gwyther
  • Brian Hancock
  • Edwina Hart
  • Jane Hutt
  • Ann Jones
  • Peter Law
  • Huw Lewis
  • David Lloyd
  • Val Lloyd
  • Tom Middlehurst
  • Rhodri Morgan
  • Alun Pugh
  • Jenny Randerson
  • Janet Ryder
  • Karen Sinclair
  • Owen John Thomas
  • Rhodri Glyn Thomas
  • Dafydd Wigley
  • Phil Williams

Cynnig NDM1453 Edwina Hart t. 60

Motion NDM1453 Edwina Hart p. 60

DerbyniwydAdopted O blaidFor 37 YmatalAbstain 0 Yn erbynAgainst 0

Derbyniwyd y cynnig.

Motion carried.

Sut y pleidleisiodd yr AelodauHow Members voted
O blaidFor (37)
  • Lorraine Barrett
  • Peter Black
  • Eleanor Burnham
  • Rosemary Butler
  • Jane Davidson
  • Andrew Davies
  • Geraint Davies
  • Glyn Davies
  • Sue Essex
  • Delyth Evans
  • Michael German
  • William Graham
  • Janice Gregory
  • John Griffiths
  • Brian Gibbons
  • Christine Gwyther
  • Alison Halford
  • Brian Hancock
  • Edwina Hart
  • Jane Hutt
  • Ann Jones
  • David Ian Jones
  • Peter Law
  • Huw Lewis
  • David Lloyd
  • Val Lloyd
  • Tom Middlehurst
  • Rhodri Morgan
  • Lynne Neagle
  • Alun Pugh
  • Jenny Randerson
  • Janet Ryder
  • Karen Sinclair
  • Owen John Thomas
  • Rhodri Glyn Thomas
  • Dafydd Wigley
  • Phil Williams

Cynnig NDM1454 Edwina Hart t. 61

Motion NDM1454 Edwina Hart p. 61

DerbyniwydAdopted O blaidFor 39 YmatalAbstain 0 Yn erbynAgainst 0

Derbyniwyd y cynnig.

Motion carried.

Sut y pleidleisiodd yr AelodauHow Members voted
O blaidFor (39)
  • Lorraine Barrett
  • Mick Bates
  • Peter Black
  • Eleanor Burnham
  • Rosemary Butler
  • Jane Davidson
  • Andrew Davies
  • Geraint Davies
  • Glyn Davies
  • Janet Davies
  • Sue Essex
  • Delyth Evans
  • Michael German
  • William Graham
  • Janice Gregory
  • John Griffiths
  • Brian Gibbons
  • Christine Gwyther
  • Alison Halford
  • Brian Hancock
  • Edwina Hart
  • Jane Hutt
  • Ann Jones
  • David Ian Jones
  • Peter Law
  • Huw Lewis
  • David Lloyd
  • Val Lloyd
  • Tom Middlehurst
  • Rhodri Morgan
  • Lynne Neagle
  • Alun Pugh
  • Jenny Randerson
  • Janet Ryder
  • Karen Sinclair
  • Owen John Thomas
  • Rhodri Glyn Thomas
  • Dafydd Wigley
  • Phil Williams

Daeth y Dirprwy Lywydd i’r Gadair am 3.52 p.m.

The Deputy Presiding Officer took the Chair at 3.52 p.m.

Strategaeth Ddigartrefedd Genedlaethol

National Homelessness Strategy

John Marek The Deputy Presiding Officer spoken in English p. 62

John Marek Y Dirprwy Lywydd siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 62

I have selected amendments 1, 3, 4 and 5 in the name of Jonathan Morgan and amendment 2 in the name of Jocelyn Davies.

Yr wyf wedi dethol gwelliannau 1, 3, 4 a 5 yn enw Jonathan Morgan a gwelliant 2 yn enw Jocelyn Davies.

Edwina Hart The Finance Minister spoken in English p. 62

Edwina Hart Y Gweinidog Cyllid siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 62

I propose that

Cynigiaf fod

Edwina Hart The Finance Minister (continued) spoken in English p. 62

Edwina Hart Y Gweinidog Cyllid (parhad) siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 62

The Assembly Government is committed to providing good quality homes for people who are unable to buy or rent in the private sector or cannot afford to do so. Clearly, local authorities have a key role to play in this. In their leadership role, they must ensure that there is adequate affordable housing locally and must strategically manage homelessness within their areas of operation. In their service provider role, local authorities must also improve lettings services to people who need affordable housing and assist those who are homeless.

Mae Llywodraeth y Cynulliad wedi ymrwymo i ddarparu tai o ansawdd da ar gyfer pobl na allant brynu neu rentu yn y sector preifat neu sy’n methu â fforddio gwneud hynny. Mae’n amlwg bod rôl allweddol yn hyn o beth i awdurdodau lleol. Yn eu rôl fel arweinydd, rhaid iddynt sicrhau bod digon o dai fforddiadwy yn lleol a rhaid iddynt reoli digartrefedd yn strategol yn eu hardaloedd gweithredu. Yn ogystal â hynny, yn eu rôl fel darparwr gwasanaethau, rhaid i awdurdodau lleol wella eu gwasanaethau gosod ar gyfer pobl y mae arnynt angen tai fforddiadwy a helpu’r rhai sy’n ddigartref.

We recognise the considerable pressures on many local authorities’ housing stock, but we need clearer information on local needs. The Assembly Government will review the need for additional resources once the local authorities have completed their local homelessness reviews and strategies.

Yr ydym yn cydnabod y pwysau mawr sydd ar stoc dai llawer o awdurdodau lleol, ond mae arnom angen gwybodaeth eglurach am anghenion lleol. Bydd Llywodraeth y Cynulliad yn adolygu’r angen am adnoddau ychwanegol wedi i’r awdurdodau lleol gwblhau eu hadolygiadau a’u strategaethau digartrefedd lleol.

Those in housing need, who are unable to access affordable housing, represent some of society’s most excluded people. We are therefore committed to empowering people in housing need to secure appropriate accommodation and to supporting that as much as possible. It must also be accommodation of their own choosing. Our short-term target is to eliminate the need for anyone to sleep rough. Our long-term aim is to ensure that high-quality housing is available for all.

Mae pobl sydd mewn angen o ran tai, na allant gael tai fforddiadwy, ymysg y rhai sydd wedi’u hallgáu fwyaf o gymdeithas. Gan hynny, yr ydym wedi ymrwymo i alluogi pobl sydd mewn angen o ran tai i sicrhau llety addas ac i roi cymaint o gymorth ag y bo modd ar gyfer hynny. Rhaid iddo hefyd fod yn llety o’u dewis. Ein targed tymor-byr yw dileu’r angen i neb gysgu allan. Ein targed tymor-hir yw sicrhau bod tai o ansawdd da ar gael i bawb.

Members are familiar with the recommendations made by the Homelessness Commission, of which there were 91 in all. As a direct result of a recommendation made by the commission, the Assembly Government produced a draft national strategy on homelessness, which was issued for consultation in May 2002. We received 29 responses to that consultation paper, from both statutory and voluntary organisations. The Assembly Government sponsored a major conference in January to focus debate on future priorities and to fine-tune our strategic approach.

Mae Aelodau’n gyfarwydd â’r argymhellion a wnaed gan y Comisiwn Digartrefedd, yr oedd cyfanswm o 91 ohonynt. O ganlyniad i argymhelliad gan y comisiwn, lluniodd Llywodraeth y Cynulliad strategaeth genedlaethol ddrafft ar ddigartrefedd, a ddosbarthwyd ar gyfer ymgynghori ym Mai 2002. Cawsom 29 o ymatebion i’r papur ymgynghori hwnnw, oddi wrth gyrff statudol a gwirfoddol. Noddodd Llywodraeth y Cynulliad gynhadledd bwysig yn Ionawr i ganolbwyntio’r drafodaeth ar flaenoriaethau ar gyfer y dyfodol ac i fanwl gyweirio ein strategaeth.

The draft strategy was reported to the Local Government and Housing Committee in April 2002, before it was issued for consultation. In addition, the strategy has been drafted in consultation with the homelessness strategies working group, which is a national advisory group that includes representation from the Welsh Local Government Association and other practitioners.

Rhoddwyd adroddiad ar y strategaeth ddrafft i’r Pwyllgor Llywodraeth Leol a Thai yn Ebrill 2002, cyn ei dosbarthu ar gyfer ymgynghori. Yn ogystal â hynny, mae’r strategaeth wedi’i drafftio drwy ymgynghori â’r gweithgor strategaethau digartrefedd, sy’n grŵp ymgynghorol cenedlaethol ac yn cynnwys cynrychiolwyr o Gymdeithas Llywodraeth Leol Cymru ac ymarferwyr eraill.

As Members know, Assembly Government policy is guided by three principal themes—sustainability, equality and tackling social disadvantage. Each of these themes underlies the development of this strategy—housing must be sustainable or people may become homeless, fair access to housing and related services will help to prevent and alleviate homelessness, and tackling homelessness addresses one of the main aspects of social disadvantage.

Fel y gŵyr Aelodau, mae polisi Llywodraeth y Cynulliad yn seiliedig ar dair prif thema—cynaliadwyedd, cydraddoldeb a mynd i’r afael ag anfantais gymdeithasol. Mae pob un o’r themâu hyn yn sail i’r gwaith o ddatblygu’r strategaeth—rhaid i dai fod yn gynaliadwy neu gallai pobl ddod yn ddigartref, bydd mynediad teg i dai a gwasanaethau cysylltiedig yn helpu i atal a lliniaru digartrefedd, ac mae’r gwaith o ymdrin â digartrefedd yn fodd i fynd i’r afael ag un o’r agweddau pennaf ar anfantais gymdeithasol.

Quite simply, the strategy sets out the Assembly Government’s objectives and indicates how we might achieve them. I am concerned to ensure that the strategy is implemented as effectively as possible, although much will depend upon the efforts of local organisations. The homelessness strategies working group will continue to scrutinise the development and implementation of the strategy closely, and regular progress reports will be provided to the Local Government and Housing Committee.

Yn gwbl syml, mae’r strategaeth yn nodi amcanion Llywodraeth y Cynulliad ac yn dangos sut y gallem eu cyflawni. Mae’n bwysig gennyf sicrhau y caiff y strategaeth ei gweithredu mor effeithiol ag y bo modd, er y bydd llawer yn dibynnu ar ymdrechion cyrff lleol. Bydd y gweithgor strategaethau digartrefedd yn parhau i graffu’n fanwl ar y gwaith o ddatblygu a gweithredu’r strategaeth, a darperir adroddiadau gwaith rheolaidd ar gyfer y Pwyllgor Llywodraeth Leol a Thai.

You will notice that the final version of the strategy has an action plan, which lists the Assembly Government’s commitments and sets out what actions we will take towards meeting them, and by when. That action plan will be constantly reviewed and it covers up to 18 months.

Byddwch yn sylwi bod fersiwn terfynol y strategaeth yn cynnwys cynllun gweithredu, sy’n rhestru ymrwymiadau Llywodraeth y Cynulliad ac yn nodi’r camau a gymerwn i’w cyflawni, ac erbyn pa bryd. Adolygir y cynllun gweithredu’n barhaus ac mae’n cynnwys cyfnod o hyd at 18 mis.

As to the amendments, I reject amendment 1. The Assembly Government seeks endorsement for the national strategy to demonstrate cross-party support. I reject amendment 2, as I do not have responsibility for most of the organisations, but officials will be working with those organisations to support its implementation. I also reject amendment 3. The Assembly Government has undertaken several measures to tackle rural homelessness, such as support for low-cost home ownership, and funding rural initiatives. The strategy recognises the particular issues around rural homelessness and commits the Assembly Government to supporting the development of good practice in providing access to services in those areas.

Ar y gwelliannau, gwrthodaf welliant 1. Mae Llywodraeth y Cynulliad yn ceisio cymeradwyaeth i’r strategaeth genedlaethol er mwyn dangos cefnogaeth drawsbleidiol. Gwrthodaf welliant 2, gan nad wyf yn gyfrifol am y rhan fwyaf o’r cyrff, ond bydd swyddogion yn gweithio gyda’r cyrff hynny er mwyn ategu’r gwaith o’i gweithredu. Gwrthodaf welliant 3 hefyd. Mae Llywodraeth y Cynulliad wedi ymgymryd â sawl mesur i fynd i’r afael â digartrefedd gwledig, fel cymorth ar gyfer perchnogaeth gost-isel ar dai, a chyllido mentrau gwledig. Mae’r strategaeth yn cydnabod y materion penodol sy’n ymwneud â digartrefedd gwledig ac yn rhwymo Llywodraeth y Cynulliad i gynorthwyo yn y gwaith o ddatblygu arferion da wrth ddarparu mynediad i wasanaethau yn yr ardaloedd hynny.

On amendment 4, the Homelessness Commission debated homelessness targets. It advised the Assembly Government that those targets should only be adopted after the necessary information becomes available in 2003-04. That approach is clearly reflected in the strategy.

Ar welliant 4, trafododd y Comisiwn Digartrefedd dargedau digartrefedd. Ei gyngor i Lywodraeth y Cynulliad oedd na ddylid ond mabwysiadu’r targedau hynny ar ôl cael y wybodaeth angenrheidiol yn 2003-04. Mae’r dull hwnnw o weithredu wedi’i adlewyrchu’n amlwg yn y strategaeth.

I reject amendment 5. The UK Government has issued a White Paper and a Bill that contains a range of measures to tackle anti-social behaviour. The Assembly Government supports those proposals.

Gwrthodaf welliant 5. Mae Llywodraeth y DU wedi cyhoeddi Papur Gwyn a Mesur sy’n cynnwys amryw o gamau gweithredu i fynd i’r afael ag ymddygiad gwrthgymdeithasol. Mae Llywodraeth y Cynulliad yn cefnogi’r cynigion hynny.

I therefore commend the strategy to Members and I trust that we will have a good discussion on this important issue.

Gan hynny, cymeradwyaf y strategaeth i’r Aelodau a hyderaf y cawn drafodaeth dda ar y pwnc pwysig hwn.

William Graham spoken in English p. 65

William Graham siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 65

I propose the following amendments in the name of Jonathan Morgan. Amendment 1: delete ‘resolves to adopt’ and replace with ‘acknowledges’.

Cynigiaf y gwelliannau canlynol yn enw Jonathan Morgan. Gwelliant 1: dileu ‘penderfynu mabwysiadu’r’ a rhoi ‘cydnabod y’ yn ei le.

William Graham (continued) spoken in English p. 65

William Graham (parhad) siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 65

I propose amendment 3: add a new point at the end of the motion:

Cynigiaf welliant 3: ychwanegu pwynt newydd ar ddiwedd y cynnig:

William Graham (continued) spoken in English p. 65

William Graham (parhad) siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 65

I propose amendment 4: add a new point at the end of the motion:

Cynigiaf welliant 4: ychwanegu pwynt newydd ar ddiwedd y cynnig:

William Graham (continued) spoken in English p. 65

William Graham (parhad) siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 65

I propose amendment 5: add a new point at the end of the motion:

Cynigiaf welliant 5: ychwanegu pwynt newydd ar ddiwedd y cynnig:

William Graham (continued) spoken in English p. 65

William Graham (parhad) siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 65

I will comment on matters raised by the Minister. The Homelessness Commission made some 91 recommendations. We welcome the fact that a large majority of those are incorporated in the strategy. There has been a large measure of cross-party support on this important issue. We acknowledge that the Welsh Assembly Government has made great strides in making money available to combat this major element of social exclusion.

Gwnaf sylwadau ar faterion a godwyd gan y Gweinidog. Gwnaeth y Comisiwn Digartrefedd ryw 91 o argymhellion. Croesawn y ffaith bod y rhan helaethaf ohonynt wedi’u cynnwys yn y strategaeth. Bu llawer iawn o gefnogaeth ar draws y pleidiau ar y mater pwysig hwn. Cydnabyddwn fod Llywodraeth Cynulliad Cymru wedi cymryd camau bras o ran darparu arian i wrthweithio’r elfen bwysig hon o allgáu cymdeithasol.

We reiterate our remarks about the independent sector, and I support comments made in the previous debate regarding landlords who do not meet the required standard. We fully support licensing houses in multiple occupation. We regret that some local authorities have yet to implement adequate and rigorous inspection of such properties.

Yr ydym yn ailddatgan ein sylwadau am y sector annibynnol, a chefnogaf sylwadau yn y ddadl flaenorol ynghylch landlordiaid nad ydynt yn cyrraedd y safon ofynnol. Yr ydym yn llwyr o blaid trwyddedu tai amlfeddiant. Mae’n ofid inni bod rhai awdurdodau lleol nad ydynt eto wedi dechrau arolygu tai o’r fath yn ddigonol ac yn drwyadl.

We commend the Minister’s work on the low-cost homes strategy, but we regret that more was not done sooner, bearing in mind that there were existing provisions in some of the previous local government Acts.

Cymeradwywn waith y Gweinidog ar y strategaeth cartrefi cost isel, ond mae’n ofid inni na wnaed rhagor yn gynt, gan gofio bod darpariaethau yn rhai o’r Deddfau llywodraeth leol blaenorol eisoes.

Will the Minister monitor the results of those targets, which will come out this year and next? We regret that that has been delayed yet again. Admittedly, that was discussed in Committee, but I would have much preferred to have seen those targets implemented at an earlier stage so that we could see what was being done.

A wnaiff y Gweinidog fonitro canlyniadau’r targedau hynny a ddaw allan eleni a’r flwyddyn nesaf? Mae’n ofid inni bod hynny wedi’i ohirio eto byth. Rhaid cyfaddef bod hynny wedi’i drafod yn y Pwyllgor, ond buasai’n well o lawer gennyf fod wedi gweld y targedau hynny’n cael eu rhoi ar waith yn gynharach fel y gallem weld beth a oedd yn cael ei wneud.

I pay tribute to the Deputy Minister for Local Government, who has done a great deal of work to make people aware of this issue, which for many years has lain in the background—

Talaf deyrnged i’r Dirprwy Weinidog dros Lywodraeth Leol, a wnaeth lawer iawn o waith i hybu ymwybyddiaeth o’r mater hwn, a fu yn y cefndir am flynyddoedd lawer—

Peter Law spoken in English p. 66

Peter Law siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 66

Thanks to the Tories.

Diolch i’r Torïaid.

William Graham spoken in English p. 66

William Graham siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 66

That remark was predictable. Vast sums of money were made available for local authority housing by successive Conservative Governments. No other party has built so many council houses throughout the United Kingdom.

Yr oedd y sylw hwnnw i’w ddisgwyl. Darparwyd symiau anferth o arian ar gyfer tai awdurdodau lleol gan y naill Lywodraeth Geidwadol ar ôl y llall. Ni chododd yr un blaid arall gynifer o dai cyngor ledled y Deyrnas Unedig.

Janet Ryder spoken in English p. 66

Janet Ryder siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 66

I propose the following amendment in the name of Jocelyn Davies. Amendment 2: add at the end of the motion:

Cynigiaf y gwelliant canlynol yn enw Jocelyn Davies. Gwelliant 2: ychwanegu ar ddiwedd y cynnig:

Janet Ryder (continued) spoken in English p. 66

Janet Ryder (parhad) siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 66

I am afraid that the Minister does not think that we need to work closely with others to achieve this strategy. The National Assembly would find it hard to achieve it on its own. It must work in partnership with local authorities, housing associations and with organisations such as Shelter. Anyone can become homeless. No-one can claim that we do not need a homelessness strategy. It is upsetting to think that, at the beginning of the twenty-first century, there are still at least 50,000 people in Wales who experience homelessness. Few would disagree that we desperately need this strategy. However a strategy on paper needs to become reality. This body cannot make it a reality on its own. Only by working with partners in local government, housing associations and bodies like Shelter, can we make it a reality.

Mae arnaf ofn nad yw’r Gweinidog yn credu bod angen inni gydweithio’n agos ag eraill i gyflawni’r strategaeth hon. Byddai’r Cynulliad Cenedlaethol yn ei chael yn anodd ei chyflawni ar ei ben ei hun. Rhaid iddo weithio mewn partneriaeth ag awdurdodau lleol, cymdeithasau tai a chyda chyrff fel Shelter. Gall unrhywun ddod yn ddigartref. Ni all neb honni nad oes arnom angen strategaeth ddigartrefedd. Testun gofid, ar ddechrau’r unfed ganrif ar hugain, yw bod o leiaf 50,000 o bobl o hyd yng Nghymru sy’n profi digartrefedd. Ychydig a anghytunai nad oes arnom daer angen y strategaeth hon. Er hynny, rhaid gwireddu’r strategaeth sydd ar bapur. Ni all y corff hwn ei gwireddu ar ei ben ei hun. Dim ond drwy weithio gyda phartneriaid mewn llywodraeth leol, cymdeithasau tai a chyrff fel Shelter, y gallwn ei gwireddu.

Although the Minister said that the action plan will be a rolling programme that will change, will she consider introducing performance indicators? When local authorities draw up their homelessness strategies, how will we know whether they are working on them? Authorities may draw up these strategies, but there are concerns about how effectively they will implement them. At some point, will the Minister consider reviewing the strategies and measure to what extent they have been developed?

Er bod y Gweinidog wedi dweud mai rhaglen dreigl fydd y cynllun gweithredu ac y bydd yn newid, a wnaiff ystyried cyflwyno dangosyddion perfformiad? Pan yw awdurdodau lleol yn llunio eu strategaethau digartrefedd, sut y byddwn yn gwybod a ydynt yn gweithio arnynt? Gall awdurdodau lunio’r strategaethau hyn, ond mae pryderon o ran pa mor effeithiol y byddant yn eu gweithredu. Ar ryw adeg, a wnaiff y Gweinidog ystyried adolygu’r strategaethau a mesur i ba raddau y maent wedi’u datblygu?

On the Tories’ amendments 1, 3, 4, 5, I am pleased that they now acknowledge the existence of rural homelessness. I recently attended meetings with some of their candidates in the forthcoming election who denied the existence of homelessness and stated that they had never seen anyone sleeping on the streets. I hope that the Tories here will inform their candidates that homelessness exists in rural areas. Young people in rural areas need somewhere to sleep as much as young people in urban areas. To return to what we said in the previous debate, given that so many social housing units have been sold and have not been replaced, it is difficult for local authorities to house homeless people.

Ynghylch gwelliannau’r Torïaid 1, 3, 4, 5, yr wyf yn falch eu bod bellach yn cydnabod bodolaeth digartrefedd gwledig. Bûm mewn cyfarfodydd yn ddiweddar â rhai o’u hymgeiswyr yn yr etholiad sydd i ddod a wadai fod digartrefedd yn bod gan ddatgan na welsant neb erioed yn cysgu ar y stryd. Gobeithiaf y bydd y Torïaid sydd yma yn hysbysu eu hymgeiswyr bod digartrefedd yn bodoli mewn ardaloedd gwledig. Mae ar bobl ifanc mewn ardaloedd gwledig angen rhywle i gysgu i’r un graddau â phobl ifanc mewn ardaloedd trefol. Gan fynd yn ôl at yr hyn a ddywedasom yn y ddadl flaenorol, gan fod cynifer o unedau tai cymdeithasol wedi’u gwerthu a dim wedi’u codi yn eu lle, mae’n anodd i awdurdodau lleol gartrefu pobl ddigartref.

On amendment 5, which relates to policies to combat anti-social behaviour, we all want to tackle that in our housing estates, but will this homelessness strategy tighten up tenancy regulations, which often lead to homelessness? Will it support and develop counselling and debt advice services? Will it develop credit unions and programmes such as Home Start to support desperate families when they get into trouble and to prevent them from slipping into homelessness?

Ynghylch gwelliant 5, sy’n ymwneud â pholisïau i wrthweithio ymddygiad gwrthgymdeithasol, yr ydym oll am fynd i’r afael â hynny ar ein hystadau tai, ond a fydd y strategaeth ddigartrefedd hon yn tynhau rheoliadau tenantiaeth, sy’n aml yn arwain at ddigartrefedd? A fydd yn cynnal ac yn datblygu cynghori a gwasanaethau cyngor ar ddyled? A fydd yn datblygu undebau credyd a rhaglenni fel Cefnogaeth Gartref i gynorthwyo teuluoedd sydd ar ben eu tennyn pan ânt i drafferthion a’u hatal rhag mynd yn ddigartref?

It is difficult to identify the high number of homeless people who are the hidden homeless. For example, those young people who are not registered as being homeless but who often sleep on friends’ floors or sofas. It is one matter to implement a strategy that deals with homelessness that presents itself and another to encourage the full identification of homelessness. However, we cannot get away from the fact that we desperately need a homelessness strategy and that the challenge is huge. A quarter of a million people in Wales live in unfit and potentially dangerous properties. Thousands of people are in mortgage arrears and 100,000 are on a six-month let. Half of the children in Wales are living on low incomes and a third live below the poverty line. The average life expectancy for those who live in decent homes is 79; for the homeless, it is 47. Those statistics speak for themselves. No-one doubts that we need a good homelessness strategy, but it must become a reality. I am glad that the Minister has made a commitment today to looking at the needs, as local authorities identify them, because we have to start putting our budgets where our strategies are.

Anodd yw canfod y nifer uchel o bobl ddigartref sydd yn bobl ddigartref cudd. Er enghraifft, y bobl ifanc hynny nad ydynt wedi eu hymgofrestru’n ddigartref ond sy’n aml yn cysgu ar lawr neu soffa eu ffrindiau. Un peth yw rhoi strategaeth ar waith sy’n delio â digartrefedd sy’n ei gyflwyno ei hun a pheth arall yw hyrwyddo adnabyddiaeth lawn o ddigartrefedd. Er hynny, ni allwn osgoi’r ffaith bod arnom daer angen strategaeth ddigartrefedd a bod yr her yn un anferth. Mae chwarter miliwn o bobl yng Nghymru’n byw mewn tai anaddas a rhai a allai fod yn beryglus. Mae gan filoedd o bobl ôl-ddyledion morgais ac mae 100,000 yn rhentu am chwe mis ar y tro. Mae hanner y plant yng Nghymru’n byw ar incymau isel ac mae traean ohonynt yn byw o dan y llinell dlodi. Y disgwyliad oes ar gyfer y rhai sy’n byw mewn cartrefi gweddus yw 79; yn achos y digartref, mae’n 47. Mae’r ystadegau hynny’n siarad drostynt eu hun. Nid oes neb yn amau nad oes arnom angen strategaeth ddigartrefedd dda, ond rhaid ei gwireddu. Yr wyf yn falch bod y Gweinidog wedi ymrwymo heddiw i ystyried yr anghenion, fel y mae awdurdodau lleol yn eu nodi, oherwydd rhaid inni ddechrau rhoi ein cyllidebau yn yr un man â’n strategaethau.

Peter Law spoken in English p. 68

Peter Law siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 68

I regret that amendments have been tabled to this motion. This is a serious matter on which we should be united. We should not play party politics with this. We should look back to when we were voted into office in 1999 and we should certainly look back to 1997 when we would hear the Conservative echo of ‘What homelessness?’ They never looked behind Marks and Spencer or noticed people sleeping rough in doorways.

Mae’n ofid imi bod gwelliannau wedi’u cyflwyno i’r cynnig hwn. Mae hyn yn fater difrifol y dylem fod yn gytûn arno. Ni ddylem chwarae gwleidyddiaeth plaid â hyn. Dylem edrych yn ôl at yr adeg y cawsom ein hethol i lywodraeth yn 1999 ac, yn sicr, dylem edrych yn ôl at 1997 pan glywem yr adlais o ‘Pa ddigartrefedd?’ gan y Ceidwadwyr. Ni fyddent byth yn edrych y tu ôl i siop Marks and Spencer nac yn sylwi ar bobl yn cysgu allan ar ben drysau.

When the Assembly was established, the homelessness budget was £500,000. The Minister increased that to £4.7 million in four years, which reflects positively how the Government is working to tackle this serious form of social exclusion. It is the worst type of social exclusion. It is all very well for us to pontificate about it, but many of us have never experienced it. However, you can always find out more, and I recommend that you go down the road to the Huggett centre, the Salvation Army hostel, or visit some of the night shelters in your areas, whether they be in Swansea, Cardiff, Rhyl, or Wrexham. I have visited such shelters and the people who run them do a marvellous job; we owe them a great debt of gratitude. They are there for our homeless people when they need help. This strategy is right because, to my knowledge, it is the first to tackle this important subject. It transcends all boundaries. People have said that it does not cover rural areas—it does on page 23, so I do not know where that idea came from. Does where you are make any difference? Homelessness is homelessness. That is the principle behind this document. If you are homeless, you need help, and that is why I support the strategy, and I commend the Minister and the Government for bringing it forward.

Pan sefydlwyd y Cynulliad, y gyllideb ar gyfer digartrefedd oedd £500,000. Mae’r Gweinidog wedi codi hynny i £4.7 miliwn mewn pedair blynedd, ac mae hynny’n adlewyrchu’n dda ar y modd y mae’r Llywodraeth yn gweithio i fynd i’r afael â’r math difrifol hwn o allgáu cymdeithasol. Dyma’r math gwaethaf o allgáu cymdeithasol. Mae’n ddigon hawdd inni ddoethinebu yn ei gylch, ond mae llawer ohonom heb ei brofi. Fodd bynnag, mae modd ichi ddysgu rhagor amdano, ac yr wyf yn argymell y dylech fynd i lawr yr heol i ganolfan Huggett, hostel Byddin yr Iachawdwriaeth, neu ymweld â rhai o’r llochesau nos yn eich ardaloedd, boed hwy yn Abertawe, Caerdydd, y Rhyl, neu Wrecsam. Yr wyf fi wedi ymweld â llochesau o’r fath ac mae’r bobl sy’n eu rhedeg yn gwneud gwaith ardderchog; yr ydym yn ddyledus iawn iddynt. Maent ar gael i’n pobl ddigartref pan fo arnynt angen cymorth. Mae’r strategaeth hon yn iawn oherwydd, hyd y gwn i, dyma’r un gyntaf sy’n ymdrin â’r pwnc pwysig hwn. Mae’n codi uwchlaw pob ffin. Dywed rhai nad yw’n ymdrin ag ardaloedd gwledig—gwnaiff hynny ar dudalen 23, felly ni wn o ble y daeth y syniad hwnnw. A oes gwahaniaeth ym mhle’r ydych yn byw? Digartrefedd yw digartrefedd. Dyna egwyddor sylfaenol y ddogfen hon. Os ydych yn ddigartref, mae arnoch angen cymorth, a dyna pam y cefnogaf y strategaeth, a chanmolaf y Gweinidog a’r Llywodraeth am ei dwyn gerbron.

I record my thanks to all those who worked on the Homeless Commission—they did a great job. I must even mention Peter Black. I must recognise these efforts today. He will not find tomorrow morning’s meeting of the Local Government and Housing Committee so easy. The fact is, however, that everyone on that Committee did a good job, because they worked in partnership. One of the keystones of the document is working in partnership for the good of people who need help, and that must be the way forward. This is not only one person’s problem or crisis—everyone has a duty to help these people. Our homeless people require what this strategy promotes, which is the opportunity to ensure the greatest possible provision of accommodation with warmth, safety and care. It is right to support this strategy and there is no need for division, because this policy is groundbreaking and is important in the provision of social justice for people who suffer the worst type of social exclusion. I commend it.

Rhof ar gof a chadw fy niolch i bawb a weithiodd ar Gomisiwn y Digartref—gwnaethant waith gwych. Rhaid imi sôn am Peter Black, hyd yn oed. Rhaid imi gydnabod ei ymdrechion heddiw. Ni fydd cyfarfod y Pwyllgor Llywodraeth Leol a Thai fore yfory yr un mor hawdd iddo. Fodd bynnag, y gwir amdani yw bod pawb ar y Pwyllgor hwnnw wedi gwneud gwaith da, gan eu bod wedi gweithio mewn partneriaeth. Un o gonglfeini’r ddogfen yw gweithio mewn partneriaeth er lles pobl y mae arnynt angen cymorth, a dyna’r ffordd ymlaen, yn sicr. Nid problem neu argyfwng i un person yn unig yw hwn—mae pawb dan ddyletswydd i helpu’r bobl hyn. Mae ar ein pobl ddigartref eisiau’r hyn y mae’r strategaeth hon yn ei chynnig, sef y cyfle i sicrhau’r ddarpariaeth fwyaf posibl o lety sy’n rhoi cynhesrwydd, diogelwch a gofal. Mae’n iawn cefnogi’r strategaeth hon ac nid oes angen ymrannu, gan fod y polisi hwn yn arloesol ac yn bwysig o ran rhoi cyfiawnder cymdeithasol i rai sy’n dioddef gan y math gwaethaf o allgáu cymdeithasol. Fe’i cymeradwyaf.

Geraint Davies spoken in English p. 70

Geraint Davies siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 70

I have several concerns about homelessness. First, there is a need to prevent people from becoming homeless. We must provide appropriate and adequate support to tenants and vulnerable people and help them to acquire debt management and other essential life skills. There is an example of good practice in my constituency. Rhondda housing association, with Assembly funding, offers 120 hours of professional support to tenants every week to equip them with such skills, to help them to avoid debt or facing the threat of evictions or restraint of goods by bailiffs.

Mae gennyf sawl pryder ynghylch digartrefedd. Yn gyntaf, mae angen atal pobl rhag mynd yn ddigartref. Rhaid inni ddarparu cymorth priodol a digonol i denantiaid a rhai sy’n agored i niwed a’u helpu i ddysgu rheoli dyledion a sgiliau byw hollbwysig eraill. Mae enghraifft o arfer da yn fy etholaeth i. Mae cymdeithas dai y Rhondda, gyda chyllid gan y Cynulliad, yn cynnig 120 awr o gymorth proffesiynol i denantiaid bob wythnos i ddysgu sgiliau o’r fath iddynt, i’w helpu i osgoi dyled neu wynebu bygythiad dadfeddiannu neu atafaelu eiddo gan feilïaid.

Secondly, will the Minister enlighten us as to the current provision for former members of the armed forces? I have come across an example of a voluntary sector plan to establish an eight-bed centre specifically to address the needs of homeless ex-service people, but the local authority has said that there is no need for it. In light of the fact that the Assembly has granted ex-service people priority status, will the Minister tell us whether she agrees that no such need exists?

Yn ail, a wnaiff y Gweinidog ein goleuo ynghylch y ddarpariaeth bresennol ar gyfer cyn-aelodau o’r lluoedd arfog? Deuthum ar draws enghraifft o gynllun gan y sector gwirfoddol i sefydlu canolfan ac ynddi wyth o welyau, yn benodol er mwyn diwallu anghenion cyn-filwyr digartref, ond mae’r awdurdod lleol wedi dweud nad oes angen amdani. Yng ngolwg y ffaith bod y Cynulliad wedi rhoi statws blaenoriaethol i gyn-filwyr, a wnaiff y Gweinidog ddweud wrthym a yw’n cytuno nad oes angen o’r fath?

Thirdly, on opportunities for education and training for homeless people, the strategy states that

Yn drydydd, ynghylch cyfleoedd ar gyfer addysg a hyfforddiant i bobl ddigartref, dywed y strategaeth

‘The Assembly Government will assist ELWa in researching gaps in provision of training in basic pre-vocational and employment skills, which is appropriate to homeless people.’

Bydd Llywodraeth y Cynulliad yn cynorthwyo ELWa i ymchwilio i fylchau yn y ddarpariaeth o hyfforddiant mewn sgiliau cyn-alwedigaethol a chyflogaeth sylfaenol, sy’n briodol i bobl ddigartref.

I welcome this commitment, but I want to know more about the present situation. Will the Minister give details of any current training and education provision for the homeless?

Croesawaf yr ymrwymiad hwn, ond hoffwn wybod mwy am y sefyllfa bresennol. A wnaiff y Gweinidog roi manylion am unrhyw ddarpariaeth addysg a hyfforddiant a geir ar hyn o bryd ar gyfer y digartref?

Finally, I have concerns about the treatment of prisoners leaving remand. They have also been allocated priority needs status by the Assembly. Will the Minister clarify with whom the responsibility lies to provide accommodation for these newly released prisoners? Is it the responsibility of the individual’s home authority—the place of residence prior to entering prison—or of the local authority in which the prison is situated? If it is the latter, does the Minister recognise the increased financial burdens placed on those local authorities with prisons? What funding measures has this Government taken to ensure that these local authorities are able to fulfil their responsibilities adequately?

Yn olaf, mae gennyf bryderon ynghylch triniaeth carcharorion sy’n gadael y ddalfa. Cawsant hwythau statws anghenion blaenoriaethol gan y Cynulliad. A wnaiff y Gweinidog egluro gan bwy y mae’r cyfrifoldeb am ddarparu llety i garcharorion sydd newydd eu rhyddhau? Ai cyfrifoldeb awdurdod lleol yr unigolyn ydyw—y man preswyl cyn mynd i’r carchar—neu’r awdurdod lleol lle y mae’r carchar? Os mai’r olaf ydyw, a yw’r Gweinidog yn cydnabod y beichiau ariannol mwy sydd ar yr awdurdodau lleol hynny lle y mae carcharau? Pa gamau a gymerodd y Gweinidog o ran cyllido i sicrhau bod yr awdurdodau lleol hynny’n gallu cyflawni eu dyletswyddau’n ddigonol?

The real test of the Assembly’s commitment to tackling homelessness will come in the autumn, when each local authority will prepare its own strategy on homelessness. Only then will we know what gaps in service provision exist, what changes are needed and, crucially, what funding is required. To tackle homelessness, we need a commitment, from whatever government is in power, to fund those strategies to the full.

Ceir y gwir brawf ar ymrwymiad y Cynulliad i fynd i’r afael â digartrefedd yn yr hydref, pan fydd pob awdurdod lleol yn paratoi ei strategaeth ei hun ar ddigartrefedd. Dim ond bryd hynny y cawn wybod pa fylchau a geir yn y ddarpariaeth gwasanaethau, pa newidiadau sydd eu hangen ac, yn hollbwysig, pa gyllid sy’n ofynnol. Er mwyn ymdrin â digartrefedd, rhaid inni wrth ymrwymiad, gan ba bynnag lywodraeth sydd mewn grym, i gyllido’r strategaethau hynny’n llawn.

Dafydd Wigley siaradwyd yn Gymraeg t. 71

Dafydd Wigley spoken in Welsh p. 71

Yr wyf yn siarad am y tro olaf, mae’n debyg, yn y Cynulliad hwn, ac mae’r pwnc hwn yn agos at fy nghalon. Yr oedd yn fy mhoeni pan wnes fy araith gyntaf yn Nhŷ’r Cyffredin bron i 30 mlynedd yn ôl. Mae digartrefedd yn parhau yn broblem yn yr ardaloedd diwydiannol a dinesig, ac yn yr ardaloedd gwledig. Mae natur y broblem weithiau yn amrwyio o ardal i ardal, ac mae’r atebion posibl hefyd yn amrywio. Fodd bynnag, mae’r argyfwng i’r unigolyn yr un mor ddwys.

I speak for probably the last time in this Assembly, and this subject is close to my heart. It concerned me when I made my maiden speech in the House of Commons almost 30 years ago. Homelessness remains a problem in the industrial and urban areas, and in rural areas. The nature of the problem can vary from area to area, and the possible solutions also vary. However, the crisis for the individual is just as serious.

Rhoddaf sylw arbennig i’r sefyllfa yn yr ardaloedd gwledig, ond cydnabyddaf y broblem aruthrol—a phroblem fwy o ran nifer—sy’n bodoli yn yr ardaloedd trefol ac yn ein Cymoedd. Fodd bynnag, mae problemau mawr yng nghefn gwlad hefyd, fel y cydnabu’r Gweinidog. Mewn llawer ardal, mae’n amhosibl i bobl ifanc ar incwm cyffredin brynu tai. Mae’r tai wedi’u prisio y tu hwnt i’w cyrraedd. Er bod y cynllun prynu cartref, a gyflwynwyd gan y Llywodraeth, wedi helpu mewn rhai ardaloedd, mae ardaloedd eraill lle na all y cynllun hwnnw wneud llawer o argraff oherwydd bod cost y tai uwchben y rhicyn.

I will pay special attention to the situation in the rural areas, but I acknowledge the huge problem—and the greater problem in terms of numbers—which exists in the urban areas and in our Valleys. However, there are also great problems in rural areas, as the Minister acknowledged. In many areas, it is impossible for young people on an average income to buy houses. The houses are priced beyond their reach. Although the homebuy scheme, which the Government introduced, has helped in some areas, there are other areas where that scheme cannot make much of an impression because the cost of the houses is above the threshold.

Mae angen felly ddarparu tai i’w prynu neu i’w rhentu yn yr ardaloedd hyn. Mae’n bosibl bod angen newid rheoliadau cynllunio i ganiatáu datblygu’r hyn sydd wedi digwydd eisoes yn y Peak District yn Lloegr, sef marchnad dai leol, gyda phrisiau is, sy’n ei gwneud yn bosibl i bobl allu byw o fewn eu cynefin.

We therefore need to provide houses to buy or to rent in those areas. It is possible that a change to planning regulations is needed to allow the development of a system already in place in the Peak District in England, namely a local housing market, with lower prices, which makes it possible for people to live in their locality.

Cyfeiriaf at un broblem arall, yn dilyn sylwadau ardderchog Geraint Davies. Mae tynged grŵp arall o bobl hefyd yn fy mhoeni, sef y bobl anffodus sy’n ymwneud â chyffuriau. Yn aml, collant eu cartrefi am resymau dealladwy. Weithiau, gwerthant bopeth yn eu cartrefi, a dônt yn ddigartref o ganlyniad. Mae’r broblem yn gwaethygu a’r sbeiral yn parhau. Yr oedd rhaglen arbennig o dda ar S4C rai misoedd yn ôl am ddigartrefedd yng Nghaernarfon. Derbyniodd y rhaglen gyndabyddiaeth mewn fforwm Brydeinig oherwydd y modd yr oedd yn tynnu sylw at ddigartrefedd ymhlith y rhai sy’n ymwneud â chyffuriau, hyd yn oed mewn trefi fel Caernarfon a Bangor. Rhaid inni, fel cymdeithas wâr, fynd i’r afael â’r broblem hon. Gobeithiaf y byddwn yn adeiladu ar y strategaeth hon, a darparu’r adnoddau angenrheidiol, os ydym am ddatrys y problemau hyn.

I will refer to one other problem, following Geraint Davies’s excellent comments. The fate of another group of people concerns me, namely those unfortunate people who are involved with drugs. Often, they lose their home for understandable reasons. Sometimes, they sell everything in their homes, and become homeless as a result. The problem worsens and the downward spiral continues. There was an excellent programme on S4C a few months ago about homelessness in Caernarfon. It was acknowledged in a British forum because of the way it drew attention to homelessness among those who are involved in drugs, even in towns such as Caernarfon and Bangor. As a civilised society, we must address this problem. I hope that we will build upon this strategy, and provide the resources necessary if we are to solve these problems.

Wrth gloi, diolchaf i’m cyd-Aelodau, o bob plaid, am eu caredigrwydd a’u cydweithrediad dros y pedair blynedd diwethaf. Bu’n fraint cael bod yn Aelod o’r corff etholedig cenedlaethol Cymreig cyntaf ers canrifoedd. Wrth ffarwelio â’r Cynulliad, dymunaf yn dda i’r Aelodau newydd fis nesaf. Mawr obeithiaf y byddant hwy, fel finnau, am weld y Cynulliad yn troi’n Senedd go iawn, gyda hawliau deddfu a llais dros Gymru o fewn yr Undeb Ewropeaidd. Deuparth gwaith yw ei ddechrau, ac fe allwn hawlio ein bod, dros y pedair blynedd diwethaf, o leiaf wedi dechrau ar y sialens aruthrol o sefydlu cyfundrefn ddemocrataidd Gymreig, a fydd yn esgor ar well dyfodol i’n cenedl.

To conclude, I thank my colleagues, from all parties, for their kindness and co-operation over the past four years. It has been an honour to be part of the first elected national Welsh body for centuries. In saying farewell to the Assembly, I wish the new Assembly Members well next month. I very much hope that they will want, as I do, to see the Assembly become a real Parliament, with legislative powers and a voice for Wales within the European Union. Work begun is half done, and we can claim that we have, over the past four years, at least begun to face the huge challenge of establishing a Welsh democratic system, which will result in a better future for our nation.

Peter Black The Deputy Minister for Local Government spoken in English p. 72

Peter Black Y Dirprwy Weinidog dros Lywodraeth Leol siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 72

Tackling homelessness is not just about bricks and mortar. One or two contributors have missed that essential truth. It is about the level of support to those who have been rehoused; it is about affordable rented housing, coupled with help with day-to-day living and substance misuse—as Dafydd Wigley outlined—and other problems. The Conservative Government sold off cheap housing and failed to recognise that homelessness existed in Wales. It underfunded services and abolished the duty of local councils to rehouse certain groups of people. The local homelessness strategy, and the Welsh Assembly Government’s work over the last year or so, has started to put that right and demonstrates that local homelessness strategies are the best way to tackle homelessness. Local councils know the problems and what must be done to tackle them. It is easy to set targets, but they are pointless if they will not be achieved. The right support and accommodation must be in place, and the problems must be understood. That must be done locally, but once it is in place, targets can be set. Until we have support and accommodation—specialist accommodation in some instances—and resources in place, according to local need, then to set targets would be a meaningless exercise. We owe it to homeless people not to enter into meaningless exercises, but to deal with the problems meaningfully. Plaid Cymru discussed targets and ensuring that they are fully implemented, and its amendment proposes that we should, effectively, tell councils that they must deal with the problem. I am sure that local councils around Wales understand that there is a problem, and they are dealing with it. They are willing to work with the Welsh Assembly Government to put it right. Prescription is not the answer. We cannot, as the Welsh Assembly Government, tell local councillors what to do. It is the same old story: we should not be trying to prescribe how councils should go about their business, as Plaid implies in its amendment.

Mae ymdrin â digartrefedd yn golygu mwy nag adeiladau’n unig. Mae un neu ddau o’r cyfranwyr wedi methu’r gwir hanfodol hwnnw. Mae’n ymwneud â graddau’r cymorth a roddir i’r rhai a ailgartrefwyd; mae’n ymwneud â thai rhent fforddiadwy, ynghyd â chymorth ar gyfer byw o ddydd i ddydd a chamddefnyddio sylweddau—fel yr amlinellwyd gan Dafydd Wigley—a phroblemau eraill. Gwerthodd y Llywodraeth Geidwadol dai rhad a methu â chydnabod bod digartrefedd yn bodoli yng Nghymru. Tanariannai wasanaethau a diddymodd y ddyletswydd a oedd ar gynghorau lleol i ailgartrefu rhai grwpiau o bobl. Mae’r strategaeth ddigartrefedd leol, a gwaith Llywodraeth Cynulliad Cymru dros y flwyddyn ddiwethaf, fwy neu lai, wedi dechrau cywiro hynny a dengys hynny mai strategaethau digartrefedd lleol yw’r modd gorau i fynd i’r afael â digartrefedd. Mae cynghorau lleol yn adnabod y problemau ac yn gwybod beth sy’n rhaid ei wneud i ymdrin â hwy. Hawdd yw gosod targedau, ond nid oes diben iddynt os na chyrhaeddir hwy. Rhaid cynnig y cymorth a’r llety priodol, a rhaid deall y problemau. Rhaid gwneud hynny’n lleol, ond ar ôl eu rhoi ar waith, gellir gosod targedau. Hyd nes y gallwn gynnig cymorth a llety—llety arbenigol mewn rhai achosion—ac adnoddau, yn ôl anghenion lleol, ymarfer diystyr fyddai gosod targedau. Mae gennym ddyletswydd i bobl ddigartref i beidio ag ymgymryd ag ymarferion diystyr, a dylem ymdrin â’r problemau mewn modd ystyrlon. Trafododd Plaid Cymru dargedau a’r angen i sicrhau y caent eu gweithredu’n llawn ac mae ei gwelliant yn cynnig, i bob pwrpas, y dylem ddweud wrth gynghorau bod rhaid iddynt ddelio â’r broblem. Yr wyf yn sicr bod cynghorau lleol ledled Cymru’n deall bod problem, ac maent yn delio â hi. Maent yn barod i weithio gyda Llywodraeth Cynulliad Cymru i’w chywiro. Nid cyfarwyddo mo’r ateb. Ni allwn, fel Llywodraeth Cynulliad Cymru, ddweud wrth gynghorwyr lleol beth y dylent ei wneud. Yr un hen gân ydyw: ni ddylem geisio pennu sut y dylai cynghorau fynd ynghylch eu gwaith, fel yr awgryma Plaid Cymru yn ei gwelliant.

The Welsh Assembly Government has an excellent record in dealing with homelessness in urban and rural areas. We have increased funding sevenfold since 1999 and have funded many new schemes, including one in Swansea that I visited a few weeks ago, called Drws Agored. The project, recently opened by the Minister, aims to get young people out of bed and breakfast accommodation. We have introduced the first national homelessness strategy. We have also introduced education schemes to teach young people about the dangers of homelessness and have invested a vast amount of additional money and resources into dealing with substance misuse in Wales. Despite the catalogue of woe that we heard from Janet Ryder, the Government has put its money where its strategy is and takes this issue seriously. Plaid is offering us woe and no solutions; the Government is offering action, resources and help. If I were homeless, I know which I would prefer.

Mae gan Lywodraeth Cynulliad Cymru record ragorol o ran delio â digartrefedd mewn ardaloedd trefol a gwledig. Yr ydym wedi cynyddu’r cyllid seithwaith ers 1999 ac wedi cyllido llawer o gynlluniau newydd, gan gynnwys un yn Abertawe yr ymwelais ag ef ychydig wythnosau’n ôl, o’r enw Drws Agored. Mae’r prosiect, a agorwyd yn ddiweddar gan y Gweinidog, yn ceisio symud pobl ifanc o lety gwely a brecwast. Yr ydym wedi cyflwyno’r strategaeth ddigartrefedd genedlaethol gyntaf. Yr ydym hefyd wedi cyflwyno cynlluniau addysg i addysgu pobl ifanc ynghylch peryglon digartrefedd ac wedi buddsoddi llawer o arian ac adnoddau ychwanegol er mwyn ymdrin â chamddefnyddio sylweddau yng Nghymru. Er gwaethaf y rhestr o wae a glywsom gan Janet Ryder, mae’r Llywodraeth wedi rhoi arian i gefnogi ei strategaeth ac mae’n cymryd y mater hwn o ddifrif. Mae Plaid Cymru yn cynnig gwae, a dim atebion: mae’r Llywodraeth yn cynnig gweithredu, adnoddau a chymorth. Pe bawn i’n ddigartref, gwn pa un a fyddai’n well gennyf.

Gwelliant 1 William Graham t. 74

Amendment 1 William Graham p. 74

GwrthodwydRejected O blaidFor 3 YmatalAbstain 0 Yn erbynAgainst 35

Gwrthodwyd y gwelliant.

Amendment rejected.

Sut y pleidleisiodd yr AelodauHow Members voted
O blaidFor (3)
  • William Graham
  • Brian Hancock
  • David Ian Jones
Yn erbynAgainst (35)
  • Lorraine Barrett
  • Mick Bates
  • Peter Black
  • Rosemary Butler
  • Christine Chapman
  • Andrew Davies
  • Geraint Davies
  • Janet Davies
  • Richard Edwards
  • Sue Essex
  • Delyth Evans
  • Michael German
  • Brian Gibbons
  • Janice Gregory
  • John Griffiths
  • Christine Gwyther
  • Alison Halford
  • Edwina Hart
  • Jane Hutt
  • Ann Jones
  • Peter Law
  • David Lloyd
  • Val Lloyd
  • Tom Middlehurst
  • Lynne Neagle
  • Alun Pugh
  • Jenny Randerson
  • Janet Ryder
  • Karen Sinclair
  • Gwenda Thomas
  • Owen John Thomas
  • Rhodri Glyn Thomas
  • Dafydd Wigley
  • Kirsty Williams
  • Phil Williams

Gwelliant 2 Janet Ryder t. 75

Amendment 2 Janet Ryder p. 75

GwrthodwydRejected O blaidFor 11 YmatalAbstain 0 Yn erbynAgainst 25

Gwrthodwyd y gwelliant.

Amendment rejected.

Sut y pleidleisiodd yr AelodauHow Members voted
O blaidFor (11)
  • Geraint Davies
  • Janet Davies
  • William Graham
  • Brian Hancock
  • David Ian Jones
  • David Lloyd
  • Janet Ryder
  • Owen John Thomas
  • Rhodri Glyn Thomas
  • Dafydd Wigley
  • Phil Williams
Yn erbynAgainst (25)
  • Lorraine Barrett
  • Mick Bates
  • Peter Black
  • Eleanor Burnham
  • Rosemary Butler
  • Andrew Davies
  • Richard Edwards
  • Sue Essex
  • Michael German
  • Brian Gibbons
  • Janice Gregory
  • John Griffiths
  • Christine Gwyther
  • Edwina Hart
  • Jane Hutt
  • Ann Jones
  • Peter Law
  • Val Lloyd
  • Tom Middlehurst
  • Lynne Neagle
  • Alun Pugh
  • Jenny Randerson
  • Karen Sinclair
  • Gwenda Thomas
  • Kirsty Williams

Gwelliant 3 William Graham t. 75

Amendment 3 William Graham p. 75

GwrthodwydRejected O blaidFor 11 YmatalAbstain 0 Yn erbynAgainst 28

Gwrthodwyd y gwelliant.

Amendment rejected.

Sut y pleidleisiodd yr AelodauHow Members voted
O blaidFor (11)
  • Geraint Davies
  • Janet Davies
  • William Graham
  • Brian Hancock
  • David Ian Jones
  • David Lloyd
  • Janet Ryder
  • Owen John Thomas
  • Rhodri Glyn Thomas
  • Dafydd Wigley
  • Phil Williams
Yn erbynAgainst (28)
  • Lorraine Barrett
  • Mick Bates
  • Peter Black
  • Eleanor Burnham
  • Rosemary Butler
  • Christine Chapman
  • Andrew Davies
  • Richard Edwards
  • Sue Essex
  • Delyth Evans
  • Michael German
  • Brian Gibbons
  • Janice Gregory
  • John Griffiths
  • Christine Gwyther
  • Alison Halford
  • Edwina Hart
  • Jane Hutt
  • Ann Jones
  • Peter Law
  • Val Lloyd
  • Tom Middlehurst
  • Lynne Neagle
  • Alun Pugh
  • Jenny Randerson
  • Karen Sinclair
  • Gwenda Thomas
  • Kirsty Williams

Gwelliant 4 William Graham t. 76

Amendment 4 William Graham p. 76

GwrthodwydRejected O blaidFor 2 YmatalAbstain 9 Yn erbynAgainst 29

Gwrthodwyd y gwelliant.

Amendment rejected.

Sut y pleidleisiodd yr AelodauHow Members voted
O blaidFor (2)
  • William Graham
  • David Ian Jones
YmatalAbstain (9)
  • Geraint Davies
  • Janet Davies
  • Brian Hancock
  • David Lloyd
  • Janet Ryder
  • Owen John Thomas
  • Rhodri Glyn Thomas
  • Dafydd Wigley
  • Phil Williams
Yn erbynAgainst (29)
  • Lorraine Barrett
  • Mick Bates
  • Peter Black
  • Eleanor Burnham
  • Rosemary Butler
  • Christine Chapman
  • Jane Davidson
  • Andrew Davies
  • Richard Edwards
  • Sue Essex
  • Delyth Evans
  • Michael German
  • Brian Gibbons
  • Janice Gregory
  • John Griffiths
  • Christine Gwyther
  • Alison Halford
  • Edwina Hart
  • Jane Hutt
  • Ann Jones
  • Peter Law
  • Val Lloyd
  • Tom Middlehurst
  • Lynne Neagle
  • Alun Pugh
  • Jenny Randerson
  • Karen Sinclair
  • Gwenda Thomas
  • Kirsty Williams

Gwelliant 5 William Graham t. 77

Amendment 5 William Graham p. 77

GwrthodwydRejected O blaidFor 2 YmatalAbstain 0 Yn erbynAgainst 37

Gwrthodwyd y gwelliant.

Amendment rejected.

Sut y pleidleisiodd yr AelodauHow Members voted
O blaidFor (2)
  • William Graham
  • David Ian Jones
Yn erbynAgainst (37)
  • Lorraine Barrett
  • Mick Bates
  • Peter Black
  • Rosemary Butler
  • Christine Chapman
  • Jane Davidson
  • Andrew Davies
  • Geraint Davies
  • Janet Davies
  • Richard Edwards
  • Sue Essex
  • Delyth Evans
  • Michael German
  • Brian Gibbons
  • Janice Gregory
  • John Griffiths
  • Christine Gwyther
  • Alison Halford
  • Brian Hancock
  • Edwina Hart
  • Jane Hutt
  • Ann Jones
  • Peter Law
  • David Lloyd
  • Val Lloyd
  • Tom Middlehurst
  • Lynne Neagle
  • Alun Pugh
  • Jenny Randerson
  • Janet Ryder
  • Karen Sinclair
  • Gwenda Thomas
  • Owen John Thomas
  • Rhodri Glyn Thomas
  • Dafydd Wigley
  • Kirsty Williams
  • Phil Williams

Cynnig NDM1455 Edwina Hart t. 77

Motion NDM1455 Edwina Hart p. 77

DerbyniwydAdopted O blaidFor 40 YmatalAbstain 0 Yn erbynAgainst 0

Derbyniwyd y cynnig.

Motion carried.

Sut y pleidleisiodd yr AelodauHow Members voted
O blaidFor (40)
  • Lorraine Barrett
  • Mick Bates
  • Peter Black
  • Eleanor Burnham
  • Rosemary Butler
  • Christine Chapman
  • Jane Davidson
  • Andrew Davies
  • Geraint Davies
  • Janet Davies
  • Richard Edwards
  • Sue Essex
  • Delyth Evans
  • Michael German
  • William Graham
  • Janice Gregory
  • John Griffiths
  • Brian Gibbons
  • Christine Gwyther
  • Alison Halford
  • Brian Hancock
  • Edwina Hart
  • Jane Hutt
  • Ann Jones
  • David Ian Jones
  • Peter Law
  • David Lloyd
  • Val Lloyd
  • Tom Middlehurst
  • Lynne Neagle
  • Alun Pugh
  • Jenny Randerson
  • Janet Ryder
  • Karen Sinclair
  • Gwenda Thomas
  • Owen John Thomas
  • Rhodri Glyn Thomas
  • Dafydd Wigley
  • Kirsty Williams
  • Phil Williams

Cynnig Trefniadol

Procedural Motion

John Marek The Deputy Presiding Officer spoken in English p. 78

John Marek Y Dirprwy Lywydd siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 78

In accordance with Standing Order No. 34.5, the Presiding Officer has agreed to allow a motion to suspend Standing Order No. 5.4 to be proposed without notice.

Yn unol â Rheol Sefydlog Rhif 34.5, mae’r Llywydd wedi cytuno i ganiatáu rhoi cynnig gerbron heb rybudd i atal Rheol Sefydlog Rhif 5.4.

Carwyn Jones The Business Minister spoken in English p. 78

Carwyn Jones Y Trefnydd siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 78

I propose that

Cynigiaf fod

John Marek The Deputy Presiding Officer spoken in English p. 78

John Marek Y Dirprwy Lywydd siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 78

There are no speakers, therefore I call for a vote on the motion. I remind Members that a two-thirds majority vote in favour is required for the motion to be carried.

Nid oes siaradwyr, felly galwaf am bleidlais ar y cynnig. Yr wyf yn atgoffa Aelodau bod angen pleidlais o fwyafrif o ddwy ran o dair o’i blaid os yw’r cynnig i gael ei dderbyn.

DerbyniwydAdopted O blaidFor 38 YmatalAbstain 0 Yn erbynAgainst 0

Derbyniwyd y cynnig.

Motion carried.

Sut y pleidleisiodd yr AelodauHow Members voted
O blaidFor (38)
  • Lorraine Barrett
  • Mick Bates
  • Peter Black
  • Eleanor Burnham
  • Rosemary Butler
  • Christine Chapman
  • Jane Davidson
  • Andrew Davies
  • Geraint Davies
  • Janet Davies
  • Richard Edwards
  • Sue Essex
  • Delyth Evans
  • Michael German
  • William Graham
  • Janice Gregory
  • John Griffiths
  • Brian Gibbons
  • Christine Gwyther
  • Alison Halford
  • Brian Hancock
  • Edwina Hart
  • Jane Hutt
  • Ann Jones
  • David Ian Jones
  • Peter Law
  • Val Lloyd
  • Tom Middlehurst
  • Lynne Neagle
  • Alun Pugh
  • Jenny Randerson
  • Janet Ryder
  • Karen Sinclair
  • Gwenda Thomas
  • Owen John Thomas
  • Rhodri Glyn Thomas
  • Dafydd Wigley
  • Phil Williams

Datblygu Cynaliadwy

Sustainable Development

John Marek The Deputy Presiding Officer spoken in English p. 79

John Marek Y Dirprwy Lywydd siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 79

I have selected amendments 1 and 3 in the name of Jocelyn Davies and amendment 4 in the name of Jonathan Morgan. I have not selected amendment 2.

Yr wyf wedi dethol gwelliannau 1 a 3 yn enw Jocelyn Davies a gwelliant 4 yn enw Jonathan Morgan. Nid wyf wedi dethol gwelliant 2.

Sue Essex The Minister for Environment spoken in English p. 79

Sue Essex Y Gweinidog dros yr Amgylchedd siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 79

I propose that

Cynigiaf fod

Phil Williams siaradwyd yn Gymraeg t. 80

Phil Williams spoken in Welsh p. 80

Cynigiaf y gwelliannau canlynol yn enw Jocelyn Davies. Gwelliant 1: dileu ‘croesawu’ a rhoi ‘nodi’ yn ei le.

I propose the following amendments in the name of Jocelyn Davies. Amendment 1: delete ‘welcomes’ and replace with ‘notes’.

Phil Williams (parhad) siaradwyd yn Gymraeg t. 80

Phil Williams (continued) spoken in Welsh p. 80

Cynigiaf welliant 3. Dileu popeth ar ôl ‘19 Mawrth 2003’ a rhoi yn ei le:

I propose amendment 3. Delete all after ‘19 March 2003’ and replace with:

Phil Williams (parhad) siaradwyd yn Gymraeg t. 80

Phil Williams (continued) spoken in Welsh p. 80

Fis yn ôl, bûm mewn seminar ym Mrwsel ar ddatblygu cynaliadwy a drefnwyd gan Ganolfan Ewropeaidd Cymru. Dechreuaf gyda’r newyddion da. Yr oedd y neuadd yn llawn, gyda chynrychiolwyr o lawer o ranbarthau Ewrop yno. Mae’n amlwg eu bod wedi clywed am ein rhwymedigaeth i ddatblygu cynaliadwy. Mae’r un neges wedi dod o Johannesburg. Mae’n bwysig cydnabod nifer y bobl drwy’r byd sy’n meddwl am Gymru fel arweinydd yn y maes hwn. Mae arnom gyfrifoldeb dirfawr. Y cwestiwn yw: a yw Cymru yn llwyddo fel arweinydd? Mae amcanion y Llywodraeth yn dda, ond a yw’n cyflawni’r amcanion yn ddigon cyflym? Dyna pam mae’r adroddiad hwn yn bwysig.

A month ago, I attended a seminar in Brussels on sustainable development organised by the Wales European Centre. I will start with the good news. The hall was packed, with representatives from many European regions present. It is clear that they had heard of our commitment to sustainable development. The same message has come from Johannesburg. It is important to acknowledge the number of people throughout the world who regard Wales as a leader in this field. A great responsibility rests on our shoulders. The question is: is Wales succeeding as a leader? The Government’s objectives are admirable, but is it achieving those objectives quickly enough? That is why this report is important.

Y mater pwysicaf i mi, wrth gwrs, yw cynhesu byd-eang. Faint o welliant ydym wedi ei gyflawni er 1999? Yn ôl yr adroddiad, yr oedd allyriant carbon diocsid yn parhau i godi’n gyflym ar ôl 1999, ond, yn anffodus, nid oes ffigurau wedi 2000. Fis yn ôl, rhoddais groeso cynnes i ddatganiad bod y Llywodraeth yn cefnogi targed o sicrhau 4 TWh bob blwyddyn o ffynonellau ynni amgen erbyn 2010. Mae hynny’n ardderchog. Serch hynny, yn ôl yr adroddiad, mae canran y trydan sy’n dod o ffynonellau cynaliadwy wedi disgyn rhwng 1999 a 2001. Mae Cymru yn aros o hyd am nodyn cyngor technegol 8 i roi cyngor ar ddatblygu ynni amgen.

The most important issue for me, of course, is global warming. How much of an improvement have we achieved since 1999? According to the report, carbon dioxide emissions continued to increase sharply after 1999, but, unfortunately, there are no figures after 2000. A month ago, I warmly welcomed the announcement that the Government supports a target of ensuring 4 TWh a year from alternative energy sources by 2010. That is excellent. However, according to the report the percentage of electricity from sustainable sources fell between 1999 and 2001. Wales is still waiting for technical advice note 8 to give guidance on developing alternative energy.

Mae technoleg gwybodaeth yn fater arall sy’n bwysig i mi. Yn un sesiwn ym Mrwsel, canolbwyntiwyd ar TG fel rhan hanfodol o ddatblygu cynaliadwy, ac, yr wythnos diwethaf, yr oedd TeleRegions Network yn trafod yr un pwnc. Drwy TG, mae’n bosibl lleihau lefelau traffig a hefyd sicrhau dyfodol pentrefi cefn gwlad. Dyna gynaliadwyedd amgylcheddol, cymdeithasol ac economaidd.

Information technology is another matter that is important to me. One session in Brussels concentrated on IT as an essential part of sustainable development, and, last week, the TeleRegions Network debated the same subject. Through IT, it is possible to reduce traffic and also to ensure the future of rural villages. That is environmental, social and economic sustainability.

Unwaith yn rhagor, mae amcanion Cymru Ar-lein yn ardderchog, ond dros y pedair blynedd diwethaf, mae’r bwlch rhwng Cymru a Lloegr o ran mynediad i fand eang wedi tyfu. Yn dechnegol, peth syml yw rhoi mynediad band eang i 80 y cant o bobl Cymru erbyn 2004. Mae digon o arian i wneud y gwaith; mae £28 miliwn ar gael mewn grantiau Amcan 1 i ddatblygu isadeiledd technoleg gwybodaeth. Fodd bynnag, hyd yn hyn, ni wariwyd ceiniog ohono. Dyna wir fesur o flaenoriaethau’r Llywodraeth. Nid oes teimlad o frys ynglŷn â phynciau hollbwysig datblygu cynaliadawy.

Once again, Cymru Ar-lein’s objectives are excellent, but over the last four years, the gap between England and Wales in terms of access to broadband has widened. Technically, providing broadband access to 80 per cent of the people of Wales by 2004 is simple. There is enough money to do the work; £28 million is available in Objective 1 grants to develop information technology infrastructure. However, to date, not a penny of that money has been spent. That is the true measure of the Government’s priorities. There is no sense of urgency on vital sustainable development issues.

I grynhoi, mae pob Aelod yn falch o’r egwyddor datblygu cynaliadwy a geir yn Neddf Llywodraeth Cymru 1998, ac yr ydym i gyd yn cefnogi amcanion y Llywodraeth, ond bu ei pherfformiad dros bedair blynedd gyntaf y Cynulliad yn siomedig. Fel y dywedodd yr hen sant, ‘Dduw, gwna fi’n bur, ond nid eto.’

In summary, every Member is proud of the sustainable development principle in the Government of Wales Act 1998, and we all support the Government’s objectives, but its performance over the first four years of the Assembly has been disappointing. As the saint said, ‘God make me pure, but not yet.’

Felly, ni allaf roi croeso cynnes i’r adroddiad hwn. Gobeithiaf y bydd y Llywodraeth newydd, ar ôl 1 Mai, yn gwneud yn well.

Therefore, I cannot warmly welcome this report. I hope that the new Government, after 1 May, will do better.

John Marek The Deputy Presiding Officer spoken in English p. 81

John Marek Y Dirprwy Lywydd siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 81

In the absence of the Conservatives, does anybody else wish to propose amendment 4? I see that nobody does, and, therefore, we shall move on.

Yn absenoldeb y Ceidwadwyr, a oes rhywun arall sy’n dymuno cynnig gwelliant 4? Gwelaf nad oes neb ac, felly, symudwn ymlaen.

Eleanor Burnham spoken in English p. 81

Eleanor Burnham siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 81

I bow to the intellectual superiority of Professor Phil Williams. I do not know now whether I should say that I believe that Wales is developing a strong, international sustainable development role. I intended to say so, and have done so now, but who knows. I believe that we are at the forefront, posing key questions, and are in a relatively strong position to access the new global best practice to which Phil alluded, and thus able to keep Wales at the cutting edge of sustainable development.

Ymostyngaf i ragoriaeth ddeallusol yr Athro Phil Williams. Ni wn yn awr a ddylwn ddweud fy mod yn credu bod Cymru’n datblygu rôl gryf a rhyngwladol mewn datblygu cynaliadwy. Bwriadaswn ddweud hynny, ac yr wyf wedi gwneud hynny’n awr, ond pwy a ŵyr. Credaf ein bod yn y rheng flaen, yn codi cwestiynau allweddol, a’n bod mewn sefyllfa gymharol gryf i allu cael yr arfer gorau byd-eang newydd y cyfeiriodd Phil ato, a thrwy hynny allu cadw Cymru ar y blaen o ran datblygu cynaliadwy.

We must not be complacent, and I hope that the Minister agrees that we should diligently support sustainable development and should not have a penny-pinching approach to it. It is not a one-off event; it is an evolving cultural change. The Assembly’s sustainable development scheme was developed two and a half years ago and some appropriate internal and external strategies and structures are now being established. Internally, we have the Cabinet sub-committee, and the Assembly’s sustainable development co-ordinating group, which includes Chairs of Subject Committees and all-party spokespersons. However, we must meet and beef-up what we have been trying to do. I commend the external establishment of an independent sustainable development forum for Wales, which, hopefully, will help to map the path towards sustainable development and become a catalyst for change in all sectors of society in Wales.

Rhaid inni beidio â bod yn ddifater, a gobeithiaf fod y Gweinidog yn cytuno y dylem gefnogi datblygu cynaliadwy’n gydwybodol ac na ddylem fod yn grintachlyd yn ei gylch. Nid digwyddiad unigryw ydyw; mae’n newid mewn arferion sy’n datblygu. Datblygwyd cynllun datblygu cynaliadwy’r Cynulliad ddwy flynedd a hanner yn ôl ac mae rhai strategaethau a fframweithiau mewnol ac allanol priodol yn cael eu sefydlu’n awr. Yn fewnol, mae gennym is-bwyllgor y Cabinet, grŵp cydlynu datblygu cynaliadwy’r Cynulliad, sy’n cynnwys Cadeiryddion Pwyllgorau Pwnc a llefaryddion yr holl bleidiau. Fodd bynnag, rhaid inni gyflawni a rhoi cig am esgyrn yr hyn y buom yn ceisio’i wneud. Cymeradwyaf sefydlu fforwm datblygu cynaliadwy annibynnol i Gymru’n allanol, a fydd, gobeithio, yn helpu i fapio’r llwybr tuag at ddatblygu cynaliadwy ac yn gatalydd i newid ym mhob sector o gymdeithas yng Nghymru.

I also welcome the establishment of Wales Social Partners Unit Ltd to aid consultation, the integration tool, which is an innovative development for use in designing polices, the spatial plan and the ecological footprint. Such developments are a sound beginning. Cultural change requires long-term development, and I hope that the Assembly will continue, on its return in May, to beef-up all sustainable development policies.

Yr wyf hefyd yn croesawu sefydlu Uned Partneriaid Cymdeithasol Cymru Cyf i fod o gymorth mewn ymgynghori, yr offeryn integreiddio, sy’n ddatblygiad arloesol i’w ddefnyddio wrth lunio polisïau, y cynllun gofodol a’r ôl troed ecolegol. Mae datblygiadau o’r fath yn ddechrau cadarn. Mae newid mewn arferion yn gofyn datblygu tymor-hir, a gobeithiaf y bydd y Cynulliad yn parhau, ar ôl dychwelyd ym mis Mai, i atgyfnerthu ei holl bolisïau datblygu cynaliadwy.

Sue Essex The Minister for Environment spoken in English p. 82

Sue Essex Y Gweinidog dros yr Amgylchedd siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 82

It is interesting to see that we have a Tory-free Chamber at the moment—[ASSEMBLY MEMBERS: ‘Oh.’] Perhaps that will be sustained in future. It shows the level of interest that the Conservatives have in sustainable development; we should all remember that.

Diddorol yw sylwi bod gennym Siambr heb Dorïaid ar hyn o bryd—[AELODAU’R CYNULLIAD: ‘O.’] Efallai y bydd hynny’n parhau yn y dyfodol. Dengys y maint o ddiddordeb sydd gan y Ceidwadwyr mewn datblygu cynaliadwy; dylem oll gofio hynny.

Last week, I introduced the report and outlined the approach that we have been taking, giving real-life examples of the changes that we are bringing about, and I explained why I did not support the amendments. As Eleanor said, this is about changing culture. Last week, Rhodri Glyn Thomas said that he wanted to see increased and faster progress. He welcomed certain schemes but complained that sustainable development was not sufficiently mainstreamed. He seemed to be complaining that we were aiming to achieve growth. Sustainable development does not mean sackcloth and ashes, stopping growth, or saying goodbye to new jobs. I am proud that employment in Wales is rising. That makes us more sustainable in terms of economic, social and environmental progress, not less.

Yr wythnos diwethaf, cyflwynais yr adroddiad a disgrifio’r dull gweithredu y buom yn ei ddilyn, gan roi enghreifftiau ymarferol o’r newidiadau yr ydym yn eu hachosi, ac eglurais pam nad oeddwn o blaid y gwelliannau. Fel y dywedodd Eleanor, mae hyn yn ymwneud â newid arferion. Yr wythnos diwethaf, dywedodd Rhodri Glyn Thomas ei fod am weld cynnydd cyflymach a mwy. Croesawodd rai cynlluniau ond cwynodd nad oedd datblygu cynaliadwy wedi’i roi yn ddigonol yn y brif ffrwd. Ymddangosai ei fod yn cwyno ein bod yn ceisio sicrhau twf. Nid yw datblygu cynaliadwy’n golygu sachliain a lludw, atal twf, neu ffarwelio â swyddi newydd. Yr wyf yn falch bod cyflogaeth yng Nghymru ar gynnydd. Mae hynny’n peri ein bod yn fwy cynaliadwy o ran cynnydd economaidd, cymdeithasol ac amgylcheddol, nid llai.

As for the criticism that progress is not fast enough, that misses the point completely. We are learning to do something new. We are trying to put sustainable development at the heart of Government. We do not have models or templates from elsewhere that we merely have to implement. We are moving forward step by step, doing whatever we can, whenever we can, within our powers and resources. We do not get everything 100 per cent right the first time, all the time. I always make that clear.

Am y feirniadaeth nad yw’r cynnydd yn ddigon cyflym, mae honno’n methu’r pwynt yn llwyr. Yr ydym yn dysgu gwneud rhywbeth newydd. Yr ydym yn ceisio rhoi datblygu cynaliadwy ar ganol Llywodraeth. Nid oes gennym fodelau neu batrymau o fannau eraill nad oes ond gofyn inni eu rhoi ar waith. Yr ydym yn symud ymlaen fesul cam, gan wneud beth bynnag a allwn, pryd bynnag y gallwn, o fewn ein pwerau a’n hadnoddau. Ni chawn bopeth yn gwbl gywir y tro cyntaf bob amser. Yr wyf yn egluro hynny bob tro.

Rhodri Glyn Thomas spoken in English p. 83

Rhodri Glyn Thomas siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 83

I accept what you are saying, Minister. I said in my speech last week that I know that you as a Minister are committed to sustainable development and I know what you are trying to achieve. However, sustainable development in Wales must be holistic and cross-cutting in order to work. The danger at the moment is that we have individual schemes, rather than an overall, holistic and cross-cutting approach to sustainable development.

Yr wyf yn derbyn yr hyn a ddywedwch, Weinidog. Dywedais yn fy araith yr wythnos diwethaf fy mod yn gwybod eich bod chi fel Gweinidog wedi ymrwymo i ddatblygu cynaliadwy a gwn beth yr ydych yn ceisio’i gyflawni. Er hynny, rhaid i ddatblygu cynaliadwy yng Nghymru fod yn gyfannol a thrawsbynciol er mwyn llwyddo. Y perygl ar hyn o bryd yw mai cynlluniau unigol sydd gennym, yn hytrach nag agwedd gyffredinol, gyfannol a thrawsbynciol at ddatblygu cynaliadwy.

Sue Essex spoken in English p. 83

Sue Essex siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 83

I understand that, but the situation has changed. What you say is based on old information. Consider what Eleanor mentioned: the appraisal tours, the Cabinet sub-committee and so on. When previously would NHS Estates, with Jane Hutt, have come before that sub-committee to consider how it can respond to sustainable development? When previously would we have had a business and environment report such as that Andrew Davies has produced recently? We are getting there. The worst that we could do in Wales is to put our heads down and say that we are not moving fast enough and not doing enough. We must proceed step by step—I believe that passionately. We cannot solve matters overnight. This requires a great change in thinking and in culture. It would be entirely wrong to think that we could just snap our fingers and make those important changes at once.

Yr wyf yn deall hynny, ond mae’r sefyllfa wedi newid. Mae’r hyn a ddywedwch yn seiliedig ar hen wybodaeth. Ystyriwch yr hyn y soniodd Eleanor amdano: y teithiau gwerthuso, is-bwyllgor y Cabinet ac yn y blaen. Pa bryd cyn hyn y byddai Ystadau’r GIG, gyda Jane Hutt, wedi dod gerbron yr is-bwyllgor hwnnw i ystyried sut y gall ymateb i ddatblygu cynaliadwy? Pa bryd cyn hyn y caem adroddiad ar fusnes a’r amgylchedd fel yr un a luniodd Andrew Davies yn ddiweddar? Yr ydym yn cyrraedd y nod. Y peth gwaethaf y gallem ei wneud yng Nghymru yw gostwng ein pennau a dweud nad ydym yn symud yn ddigon cyflym nac yn gwneud digon. Rhaid inni fynd ymlaen fesul cam—credaf hynny’n angerddol. Ni allwn ddatrys pethau dros nos. Mae hyn yn gofyn newid mawr o ran meddwl ac arferion. Cwbl anghywir fyddai credu y gallem roi clec ar y bawd a gwneud y newidiadau pwysig hynny ar unwaith.

Christine Chapman spoken in English p. 84

Christine Chapman siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 84

You mentioned the cross-cutting nature of sustainable development. Do you also welcome the fact that the Objective 1 programme monitoring committee requested a progress report on sustainable development at its last meeting? We had an excellent discussion in that meeting—Phil Williams will remember it. Much needs to be done, as you said. Sustainable development is new for Wales, but we recognise the progress that has been made in Objective 1 schemes. There are many examples of good practice out there. However, we cannot be complacent; the programme monitoring committee certainly is not, and we want to see more progress.

Gwnaethoch sôn am natur drawsbynciol datblygu cynaliadwy. A ydych hefyd yn croesawu’r ffaith bod pwyllgor monitro rhaglen Amcan 1 wedi gofyn am adroddiad gwaith ar ddatblygu cynaliadwy yn ei gyfarfod diwethaf? Cawsom drafodaeth ragorol yn y cyfarfod hwnnw—bydd Phil Williams yn ei chofio. Mae llawer i’w wneud, fel y dywedasoch. Mae datblygu cynaliadwy’n beth newydd yng Nghymru, ond cydnabyddwn y cynnydd a wnaed mewn cynlluniau Amcan 1. Mae llawer o enghreifftiau o arferion da yn y maes. Er hynny, ni allwn fod yn ddifater; nid yw’r pwyllgor monitro rhaglen yn ddifater, yn sicr, ac yr ydym am weld rhagor o gynnydd.

Sue Essex spoken in English p. 84

Sue Essex siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 84

That is exactly right. We are making progress, monitoring what we are doing and making adjustments where we can. If we can do that by means of Objective 1 schemes—which are essentially about economic development—and have an understanding at the grass-roots level of decision-making, then I am positive and optimistic about the outcomes.

Mae hynny’n hollol gywir. Yr ydym yn gwneud cynnydd, gan fonitro’r hyn a wnawn a gwneud newidiadau lle y gallwn. Os gallwn wneud hynny drwy gyfrwng cynlluniau Amcan 1—sy’n ymwneud â datblygu cynaliadwy, yn y bôn—ac os oes dealltwriaeth ar y lefel penderfynu leol, teimlaf yn gadarnhaol ac yn obeithiol ynghylch y canlyniadau.

Eleanor Burnham spoken in English p. 84

Eleanor Burnham siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 84

It seems to me that it is up to the Assembly to encourage local authorities, such as the one featured in the media a few weeks ago—I think that it was Gwynedd Council—which has decided to use Spanish slate on the roofs of the buildings that it is in charge of. Surely we should be considering the sustainable development of slate quarries in north Wales?

Ymddengys i mi mai lle’r Cynulliad yw rhoi anogaeth i awdurdodau lleol, fel yr un a gafodd sylw yn y cyfryngau ychydig wythnosau’n ôl—credaf mai Cyngor Gwynedd ydoedd—a benderfynodd ddefnyddio llechi o Sbaen ar doeau adeiladau y mae’n gyfrifol amdanynt. Siawns na ddylem ystyried datblygu chwareli llechi’r Gogledd mewn modd cynaliadwy?

Sue Essex spoken in English p. 84

Sue Essex siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 84

Local government is key in taking this programme forward. That is why the compact with local government is important. I cannot comment on Eleanor’s example; there is a state aids issue with regard to procuring slate. However, we are carefully considering local procurement, because sourcing materials locally makes sense in terms of transport and its impact on the environment.

Mae llywodraeth leol yn allweddol wrth fwrw ymlaen â’r rhaglen hon. Dyna pam y mae’r cytundeb â llywodraeth leol yn bwysig. Ni allaf wneud sylw am yr enghraifft a gynigiodd Eleanor; mae mater yn codi o ran cymhorthion gwladol wrth gaffael llechi. Fodd bynnag, yr ydym yn ystyried caffael lleol yn ofalus, gan fod cael defnyddiau’n lleol yn gwneud synnwyr o ran cludiant a’i effaith ar yr amgylchedd.

Whatever we do—and I say this to Rhodri Glyn—we must take people with us. This is not about dictating from the top. It is about showing leadership, not dictating from the top. Sustainable development means combining a strategic overview with people’s everyday concerns. Like Phil Williams, I have been in politics for a long time and I have learned that you must take people with you. We are not in an age when we can impose matters on people. We must get them to understand the situation and commit to those decisions in their hearts and minds. We must proceed step by step to change the culture—we must accept that that will be the case in Wales. Over the last three and a half years—almost four years—we have come an enormously long way.

Beth bynnag a wnawn—a dywedaf hyn wrth Rhodri Glyn—rhaid inni fynd â’r bobl gyda ni. Nid yw hyn yn fater o orchymyn o’r pen uchaf. Mae’n ymwneud â dangos arweiniad, nid gorchymyn o’r pen uchaf. Mae datblygu cynaliadwy’n golygu cyfuno trosolwg strategol a phryderon pob dydd pobl. Fel Phil Williams, bûm mewn gwleidyddiaeth am gyfnod hir ac yr wyf wedi dysgu bod rhaid ichi fynd â phobl gyda chi. Nid ydym yn byw mewn oes pan allwn orfodi pethau ar bobl. Rhaid inni gael ganddynt ddeall y sefyllfa ac ymrwymo i’r penderfyniadau hynny yn eu calonnau a’u meddyliau. Rhaid inni fynd ymlaen fesul cam i newid arferion—rhaid inni dderbyn mai felly y bydd yng Nghymru. Dros y tair blynedd a hanner diwethaf—ymron i bedair blynedd—yr ydym wedi dod yn bell iawn.

I will give way to Brian. Do not tell me; you are going to talk about canals, Brian.

Ildiaf i Brian. Gadewch imi ddyfalu; yr ydych am sôn am gamlesi, Brian.

Brian Hancock spoken in English p. 85

Brian Hancock siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 85

No. What you say is important. To make sustainable development work, we need a sustainable economy. You know my feelings about the three-legged stool. It has the legs of the economy, education, and the environment. However, we must ensure that business and the environment work together—[Interruption.] Actually, the three-legged stool stays quite stable as long as you keep it together and do not lose your head as some people do—and their seats, probably. The important point is that business and the environment must work together. We must also, somehow pump-prime industry to think in terms of sustainable development and the way it uses materials in the future. Two examples of that would be recycled paper and—

Nac ydwyf. Mae’r hyn a ddywedwch yn bwysig. Er mwyn peri i ddatblygu cynaliadwy lwyddo, mae arnom angen economi gynaliadwy. Gwyddoch beth yw fy nheimladau am y stôl deircoes. Mae iddi goesau ar ffurf yr economi, addysg, a’r amgylchedd. Fodd bynnag, rhaid inni sicrhau bod busnes a’r amgylchedd yn gweithio gyda’i gilydd—[Torri ar draws.] A dweud y gwir, mae’r stôl deircoes yn sefyll yn eithaf sefydlog cyhyd â’ch bod yn ei dal wrth ei gilydd ac nid yn colli’ch pen fel y gwnaiff rhai—a’u seddau, yn ôl pob tebyg. Y pwynt pwysig yw bod rhaid i fusnes a’r amgylchedd weithio gyda’i gilydd. Rhaid inni hefyd, rywsut, ysgogi diwydiant i feddwl yng nghyd-destun datblygu cynaliadwy a’r modd y defnyddia ddefnyddiau yn y dyfodol. Dwy enghraifft o hynny yw papur a ailgylchwyd a—

John Marek The Deputy Presiding Officer spoken in English p. 85

John Marek Y Dirprwy Lywydd siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 85

Order. You cannot use two examples, Brian. This is not a speech; it is an intervention.

Trefn. Ni chewch ddefnyddio dwy enghraifft, Brian. Nid araith yw hon; ymyriad ydyw.

Sue Essex spoken in English p. 86

Sue Essex siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 86

I have quoted ad nauseam examples of where business and the needs of the environment have come together dramatically in Wales. There are examples at the strategic level, in the work that Andrew Davies has done, and that the Welsh Development Agency is now doing. The ARENA Network and the Green Dragon awards have been enormously successful in Wales. Small and medium-sized enterprises are being established as a result, particularly in the waste sector. The challenge posed by waste is being used to provide job opportunities. We are getting that right. What you mention is in place, Brian. I champion that at every possible opportunity. This is about integrated government. The Assembly Cabinet has taken sustainable development to heart and is working it through.

Yr wyf wedi dyfynnu enghreifftiau hyd syrffed o achosion lle y daeth busnes ac anghenion yr amgylchedd at ei gilydd mewn modd trawiadol yng Nghymru. Mae enghreifftiau ar y lefel strategol, yn y gwaith a wnaeth Andrew Davies, ac a wnaiff Awdurdod Datblygu Cymru’n awr. Bu Rhwydwaith ARENA a gwobrau’r Ddraig Werdd yn llwyddiannus dros ben yng Nghymru. Sefydlir busnesau bach a chanolig eu maint o ganlyniad i hynny, yn enwedig yn y sector gwastraff. Mae’r her a gynigir gan wastraff yn cael ei defnyddio i ddarparu cyfleoedd gwaith. Yr ydym yn llwyddo yn hynny o beth. Mae’r hyn y soniwch amdano wedi’i roi ar waith, Brian. Dadleuaf dros hynny ar bob cyfle posibl. Mae hyn yn ymwneud â llywodraeth integredig. Mae Cabinet y Cynulliad yn cymryd datblygu cynaliadwy o ddifrif ac mae’n ei roi ar waith.

It is not just about big, headline-grabbing schemes and trampling on people’s legitimate concerns. If the public does not recognise that there are hard choices to be made—it will be difficult at times, and people’s rights must be respected—they do not understand sustainable development. This is about the social dimension, education, and working with people in the real world. ‘Get real’ is the appropriate phrase, because there are no magic wands. It is a matter of setting a direction, working your way through, admitting mistakes when you make them, but also celebrating your successes. It is important to celebrate successes.

Nid yw’n ymwneud â chynlluniau mawr sy’n cipio’r penawdau a sathru ar bryderon dilys pobl. Os nad yw’r cyhoedd yn cydnabod bod angen cymryd dewisiadau anodd—bydd yn anodd ar brydiau, a rhaid parchu hawliau pobl—nid ydynt yn deall datblygu cynaliadwy. Mae hyn yn ymwneud â’r agwedd gymdeithasol, addysg, a gweithio gyda phobl yn y byd go-iawn. ‘Byddwch o ddifrif’ yw’r ymadrodd priodol, oherwydd nid oes unrhyw hudlathau y gellir eu chwifio. Mae’n fater o bennu cyfeiriad, gweithio’ch ffordd drwodd, cyfaddef eich camgymeriadau pan wnewch rai, ond hefyd ddathlu’ch llwyddiannau. Mae’n bwysig dathlu llwyddiannau.

Phil Williams is committed to the development of renewable energy and a reduction in greenhouse gas emissions. I share his sense of urgency. However, sustainability is about thinking in the long term. It is about putting the proper foundations of decision-making in place and putting the capacity in now. I make no apologies about the fact that technical advice note 8 is taking time to produce. It is a groundbreaking piece of work. There is only one other place in the world doing this work as we are doing it in Wales, I believe. Once we have that policy base in place, it will make decision-making much easier. It will send out strong messages to the industry on renewable energy. That is the base from which Wales can expand in the way that we want it to do.

Mae Phil Williams wedi ymrwymo i’r gwaith o ddatblygu ynni adnewyddadwy a lleihau gollyngiadau o nwyon tŷ gwydr. Rhannaf yr ymdeimlad o frys sydd ganddo. Serch hynny, mae cynaliadwyedd yn golygu meddwl yn y tymor hir. Mae’n ymwneud â gosod y seiliau priodol ar gyfer penderfyniadau a chreu’r capasiti’n awr. Nid ymddiheuraf o gwbl am y ffaith ei bod yn cymryd amser i lunio nodyn cyngor technegol 8. Mae’n waith arloesol. Dim ond un lle arall yn y byd sy’n gwneud y gwaith hwn fel yr ydym ni’n ei wneud yng Nghymru, yr wyf yn credu. Wedi inni osod y sylfaen bolisi honno, bydd penderfynu’n llawer haws. Bydd yn cyfleu negeseuon pendant i’r diwydiant am ynni adnewyddadwy. Dyna’r sylfaen y gall Cymru ehangu ohoni fel y dymunwn iddi wneud.

There are many examples of progress; I will not take up Members’ time by listing them all. They include the Tir Gofal scheme, for which a large number of people are signing up—the list is open today—and a huge number of people are already taking part in it. We are also looking at how health trusts are working, and how we develop social housing. Excellent, innovative work is being done in the Assembly. We also have public transport initiatives, such as that on demand-responsive transport that I opened the week before last with Tom Middlehurst in Flintshire, which puts transport at the heart of people’s lives. We have a good success story to tell.

Mae llawer o enghreifftiau o gynnydd; ni chymeraf amser Aelodau drwy eu rhestru i gyd. Yn eu plith y mae cynllun Tir Gofal, y mae nifer fawr o bobl yn ymuno ag ef—mae’r rhestr yn agor heddiw—ac mae nifer fawr iawn yn cymryd rhan ynddo eisoes. Yr ydym hefyd yn ystyried sut y mae ymddiriedolaethau iechyd yn gweithio, a sut yr ydym yn datblygu tai cymdeithasol. Gwneir gwaith arloesol, rhagorol yn y Cynulliad. Yn ogystal â hynny, mae gennym fentrau trafnidiaeth gyhoeddus, fel yr un ar drafnidiaeth sy’n ymateb i’r galw a agorais yr wythnos cyn diwethaf gyda Tom Middlehurst yn Sir y Fflint, sy’n rhoi trafnidiaeth yng nghanol bywydau pobl. Mae gennym stori o lwyddiant i’w hadrodd.

Finally, who would have thought a few years ago, Phil, that you would be in Brussels—I was not there, but would have dearly loved to have been—in a packed room celebrating what we have done, and sharing the way that we will go forward? Who would have thought that our First Minister, Rhodri Morgan, would be at San Sebastian following the Gauteng declaration, talking to regions from across the world, from developed and undeveloped countries, about our experiences of learning together? This is about learning to live differently and to live together. We can celebrate that.

Yn olaf, pwy a gredai ychydig flynyddoedd yn ôl, Phil, y byddech chi ym Mrwsel—nid oeddwn yno, ond buaswn wrth fy modd o gael bod—mewn ystafell orlawn yn dathlu’r hyn a wnaethom, a rhoi gwybod am y modd yr awn ymlaen? Pwy a gredai y byddai ein Prif Weinidog, Rhodri Morgan, yn San Sebastian ar ôl datganiad Gauteng, yn siarad â rhanbarthau o bob man yn y byd, o wledydd datblygedig ac annatblygedig, am ein profiadau o ddysgu gyda’n gilydd? Mae hyn yn ymwneud â dysgu i fyw’n wahanol ac i fyw gyda’n gilydd. Gallwn ddathlu hynny.

Gwelliant 1 Phil Williams t. 87

Amendment 1 Phil Williams p. 87

GwrthodwydRejected O blaidFor 9 YmatalAbstain 0 Yn erbynAgainst 26

Gwrthodwyd y gwelliant.

Amendment rejected.

Sut y pleidleisiodd yr AelodauHow Members voted
O blaidFor (9)
  • Geraint Davies
  • Glyn Davies
  • Janet Davies
  • Brian Hancock
  • David Lloyd
  • Janet Ryder
  • Owen John Thomas
  • Rhodri Glyn Thomas
  • Phil Williams
Yn erbynAgainst (26)
  • Lorraine Barrett
  • Mick Bates
  • Eleanor Burnham
  • Rosemary Butler
  • Christine Chapman
  • Jane Davidson
  • Andrew Davies
  • Sue Essex
  • Delyth Evans
  • Michael German
  • Janice Gregory
  • John Griffiths
  • Christine Gwyther
  • Alison Halford
  • Edwina Hart
  • Jane Hutt
  • Peter Law
  • Huw Lewis
  • Val Lloyd
  • Tom Middlehurst
  • Rhodri Morgan
  • Lynne Neagle
  • Alun Pugh
  • Jenny Randerson
  • Karen Sinclair
  • Gwenda Thomas

Ni ddetholwyd gwelliant 2.

Amendment 2 was not selected.

Gwelliant 3 Phil Williams t. 88

Amendment 3 Phil Williams p. 88

GwrthodwydRejected O blaidFor 9 YmatalAbstain 0 Yn erbynAgainst 25

Gwrthodwyd y gwelliant.

Amendment rejected.

Sut y pleidleisiodd yr AelodauHow Members voted
O blaidFor (9)
  • Geraint Davies
  • Glyn Davies
  • Janet Davies
  • Brian Hancock
  • David Lloyd
  • Janet Ryder
  • Owen John Thomas
  • Rhodri Glyn Thomas
  • Phil Williams
Yn erbynAgainst (25)
  • Lorraine Barrett
  • Mick Bates
  • Eleanor Burnham
  • Rosemary Butler
  • Christine Chapman
  • Jane Davidson
  • Andrew Davies
  • Sue Essex
  • Delyth Evans
  • Michael German
  • Janice Gregory
  • John Griffiths
  • Christine Gwyther
  • Alison Halford
  • Edwina Hart
  • Jane Hutt
  • Peter Law
  • Huw Lewis
  • Val Lloyd
  • Tom Middlehurst
  • Rhodri Morgan
  • Lynne Neagle
  • Alun Pugh
  • Jenny Randerson
  • Karen Sinclair

Ni chynigiwyd gwelliant 4.

Amendment 4 was not proposed.

DerbyniwydAdopted O blaidFor 25 YmatalAbstain 7 Yn erbynAgainst 2

Derbyniwyd y cynnig.

Motion carried.

Sut y pleidleisiodd yr AelodauHow Members voted
O blaidFor (25)
  • Lorraine Barrett
  • Mick Bates
  • Eleanor Burnham
  • Rosemary Butler
  • Christine Chapman
  • Glyn Davies
  • Andrew Davies
  • Sue Essex
  • Delyth Evans
  • Michael German
  • Janice Gregory
  • John Griffiths
  • Christine Gwyther
  • Alison Halford
  • Edwina Hart
  • Peter Law
  • Huw Lewis
  • Val Lloyd
  • Tom Middlehurst
  • Rhodri Morgan
  • Lynne Neagle
  • Alun Pugh
  • Jenny Randerson
  • Karen Sinclair
  • Gwenda Thomas
YmatalAbstain (7)
  • Geraint Davies
  • Janet Davies
  • Brian Hancock
  • Janet Ryder
  • Owen John Thomas
  • Rhodri Glyn Thomas
  • Phil Williams
Yn erbynAgainst (2)
  • Jane Davidson
  • Jane Hutt

Adroddiad y Pwyllgor Diwylliant ar Gymryd Rhan mewn Chwaraeon

The Culture Committee’s Report on Participation in Sport

Rhodri Glyn Thomas siaradwyd yn Gymraeg t. 89

Rhodri Glyn Thomas spoken in Welsh p. 89

Cynigiaf fod

I propose that

Rhodri Glyn Thomas (parhad) siaradwyd yn Gymraeg t. 89

Rhodri Glyn Thomas (continued) spoken in Welsh p. 89

Mae’n bleser gennyf gyflwyno’r adroddiad hwn ar ran y Pwyllgor Diwylliant. Dyma adolygiad polisi’r Pwyllgor ar gymryd rhan mewn chwaraeon ac ymarfer corff yng Nghymru ac mae’r adroddiad yn ganlyniad i ymarfer ymgynghori helaeth, a oedd yn cynnwys nifer o gyrff chwaraeon, awdurdodau lleol a grwpiau targed penodol. Bwriad yr adolygiad oedd ystyried lefelau isel cymryd rhan yng Nghymru a sut i’w cynyddu.

It is a pleasure to present this report on behalf of the Culture Committee. This is the Committee’s policy review on participation in sport and physical exercise in Wales and the report is the result of an extensive consultation exercise, which included many sporting bodies, local councils and specific target groups. The aim of the review was to consider the low levels of participation in Wales and how to increase them.

Diolchaf i aelodau’r Pwyllgor am ymgymryd â’r arolwg hwn ac am wneud hynny mewn modd cydwybodol. Diolchaf iddynt hefyd am eu presenoldeb yn ystod y ddwy flynedd a hanner y bu’r Pwyllgor mewn bodolaeth a’u cyfraniad i’r holl waith a gyflawnwyd. Ystyriaf yr adroddiadau yn waith eithriadol o bwysig ar ran ein Pwyllgorau Pwnc. Diolchaf hefyd i’r ysgrifenyddiaeth am ei chyfraniad amhrisiadwy o ran dwyn yr holl dystiolaeth ynghyd a’i chyflwyno mewn adroddiad a fydd o werth, gobeithio, o ran llunio polisi yn y Cynulliad wedi’r etholiad ar 1 Mai. Diolchaf i’r unigolion a’r mudiadau a gyflwynodd dystiolaeth inni yn ystod yr arolwg hwn.

I thank Committee members for undertaking this review and for doing so conscientiously. I also thank them for their attendance during the Committee’s two and a half years in existence and for their contribution to all the work undertaken. I consider the reports to be exceptionally important work on behalf of our Subject Committees. I also thank the secretariat for its invaluable contribution in terms of bringing all the evidence together and presenting it in a report that, I hope, will be valuable in terms of policy-making in the Assembly following the election on 1 May. I thank the individuals and organisations that submitted evidence to us during this review.

O ran themâu allweddol yr adroddiad, mae’n amlwg y byddai cymryd rhan mewn chwaraeon neu ymarfer corff yn llesol i iechyd y cyhoedd yng Nghymru. Byddai’n fodd o osgoi llawer o afiechydon y mae’r cyhoedd yng Nghymru yn dioddef ohonynt. Mae ymarfer corff yn helpu i leihau’r perygl o glefyd y galon, gordewdra, rhai mathau o ganser, yr ail fath o glefyd y siwgr, anafiadau sy’n gysylltiedig â’r broses o heneiddio a phroblemau iechyd meddwl. Nid ydym yn sôn am chwaraeon yn unig ond hefyd am wneud 30 munud o ymarfer corff cymedrol, megis cerdded, bum gwaith yr wythnos. Dyna a argymhellir fel lefel sydd o fudd i iechyd pobl. Yr ydym hefyd yn annog y broses o addysgu pobl yn ifanc i ymarfer gan y bydd yn golygu y byddant yn parhau i wneud hynny drwy gydol eu bywydau.

In terms of the report’s key themes, it is clear that participation in sport and physical exercise would be beneficial to the health of the public in Wales. It would be a way of avoiding many diseases suffered by members of the public in Wales. Physical exercise assists in reducing the risk of heart disease, obesity, some types of cancers, type 2 diabetes, injuries linked to the ageing process and mental health problems. We are not only talking about sport but also about doing 30 minutes of moderate physical exercise, such as walking, five times per week. That is the recommended level that will benefit people’s health. We also encourage the process of educating people at a young age to exercise because it will mean that they will continue to do so throughout their lives.

Gall chwaraeon ac ymarfer corff fod yn llesol i’n cymunedau. Mae tystiolaeth y gall ostwng lefel troseddau ac ymddygiad gwrthgymdeithasol, ac mae’n galluogi pobl i fod yn rhan o gymdeithas gan hybu cynhwysiant cymdeithasol.

Sport and physical exercise can be beneficial to our communities. There is evidence that it can reduce crime and anti-social behaviour, and it enables people to be part of society, thereby increasing social inclusion.

Yn ystod yr arolwg hwn, darganfu’r Pwyllgor fod cyfraddau cymryd rhan mewn chwaraeon ac ymarfer corff yng Nghymru yn is na chyfraddau gweddill y Deyrnas Unedig a llawer o wledydd eraill. Sylweddolasom hefyd eu bod yn is ymhlith menywod na dynion, ymhlith rhai grwpiau lleiafrifol ethnig a grwpiau sy’n dioddef amddifadedd cymdeithasol, a’u bod yn gostwng gydag oedran. Bu inni ddarganfod bod diffyg o ran cyfleusterau a phersonél, a nodwyd hefyd ddiffygion penodol o ran gwirfoddolwyr a chyfleusterau, megis darparu bysiau i gludo pobl i ganolfannau hamdden. Gwelwyd bod problem o ran cost mynediad i gyfleusterau, a diffyg o ran hybu’r cyfleusterau hynny. Bu cyfyngiadau hefyd o ran amser.

During this review, the Committee found that participation rates in sport and physical exercise were lower in Wales than in the rest of the United Kingdom and many other countries. We also realised that they were lower among women than men, among certain ethnic minority and socially disadvantaged groups, and that they decreased with age. We discovered a shortage of facilities and personnel, and noted specific deficiencies in terms of volunteers and facilities, such as providing buses to take people to leisure centres. We saw that there was a problem in terms of entrance fees to facilities, and that there were difficulties in terms of promoting them. There were also time constraints.

O ran menywod yn cymryd rhan mewn chwaraeon, gwelwyd fod diffyg o ran cefnogaeth o fewn yr amgylchedd deuluol, bod cyfyngiadau amser, a bod menywod yn pryderu am eu diogelwch personol mewn canolfannau chwaraeon.

On women’s participation in sport, we noted a lack of support within the family environment, there were time constraints, and women were concerned about their personal safety in sports centres.

O ran pobl ifanc, yr oedd diffygion yn y cwricwlwm o ran cyflwyno’r cyfle i wneud gwahanol fathau o chwaraeon ac ymarfer corff; yr oedd diffyg amrywiaeth yn y chwaraeon a gynigir yn ein hysgolion; a diffyg cyfle a chymorth i’r sawl nad oedd yn serennu ym maes chwaraeon. Yr oedd popeth yn iawn i’r sawl a oedd yn cyrraedd y tîm cyntaf, ond i’r sawl nad oedd yn cyrraedd y lefel honno, cyfyngedig oedd y cyfleoedd.

In terms of young people, the curriculum had shortcomings in providing opportunities to take part in different types of sport and physical education; there was a lack of variety in the sports taught in our schools; and a lack of opportunity and support to those who did not excel in sports. If a pupil was selected for the first team, everything was fine, but for those who did not reach that level, the opportunities were limited.

O ran pobl ag anabledd, gwelwyd diffyg trafnidiaeth gyhoeddus i’w cludo i gyfleusterau lleol. Prin oedd y staff mewn canolfannau a hyfforddwyd yn briodol i’w cynorthwyo, ac nid oedd ganddynt wybodaeth gyffredinol am y cyfleusterau ar gael.

With regard to disabled people, there was insufficient public transport to take people to local facilities. There was a shortage of appropriately trained staff to assist them, and there was a lack of awareness of the facilities available.

Yr oedd diffyg croeso i bobl o leiafrifoedd ethnig, a diffyg hyfforddiant i staff ar sut i ddelio â’u gofynion. Hefyd, o ran pobl hŷn, gwelwyd diffygion cyfle a diffygion hysbysebu’r cyfleusterau a oedd ar gael.

People from ethnic minorities felt unwelcome, and staff were not trained on how to deal with their needs. Also, in terms of older people, there was a lack of opportunity and inadequate promotion of the available facilities.

I grwpiau yn dioddef o amddifadedd cymdeithasol, yr oedd cost yn broblem, nid oedd anogaeth iddynt, a theimlent nad oedd croeso iddynt mewn rhai canolfannau a chlybiau.

Cost was a problem for socially disadvantaged groups; there was no encouragement for them and they did not feel welcome in some centres and clubs.

Argymhellion yr adroddiad yn gyffredinol yw bod y Pwyllgor am weld ffocws ehangach ar ymarfer corff; mwy o gyswllt rhwng y meysydd sy’n gorgyffwrdd â chwaraeon, fel iechyd, addysg a llywodraeth leol; mwy o gydweithio gydag awdurdodau lleol i wella ansawdd cyfleusterau a mynediad iddynt; a chais i’r Gweinidog lunio cynllun gweithredu i gynyddu nifer y gwirfoddolwyr a gweithgareddau gwirfoddol. Yr ydym am iddi ystyried cynigion hyfforddi Cyngor Chwaraeon Cymru, ac ystyried cynnwys datblygu strategaeth hyfforddi yn y prif strategaeth chwaraeon.

The report’s recommendations in general are that the Committee wants to see a broader focus on physical exercise; more links with areas that overlap with sport, such as health, education and local government; more collaboration with local authorities to improve the standards of, and access to, facilities; and wants the Minister to produce an action plan to increase the number of volunteers and voluntary activities. We want her to consider the Sports Council for Wales’s proposals for coaching, and consider including the development of a coaching strategy in the main strategy for sport.

Dylai Cyngor Chwaraeon Cymru weithio gydag awdurdodau lleol a chymdeithasau menywod er mwyn sicrhau gwybodaeth ynglŷn â’r strwythurau a’r cyfleusterau sydd ar gael. Galwn am ystyriaeth o’r manteision i iechyd y cyhoedd, a galwn ar Gyngor Chwaraeon Cymru i weithio gyda’r Comisiwn Cyfle Cyfartal, awdurdodau lleol a chymdeithasau chwaraeon i ddatblygu cynllun gweithredu sy’n sicrhau y caiff y rhwystrau i fynediad pobl o gymunedau lleiafrifol i ymarfer corff a chwaraeon eu dileu.

The Sports Council for Wales should work with local authorities and women’s associations to ensure that there is information about the structures and facilities available. We call for consideration of the benefits to public health, and call on the Sports Council for Wales to work with the Equal Opportunities Commission, local authorities and sports associations to develop an action plan to ensure that barriers to access to physical exercise and sport for people from minority communities be abolished.

Teimlwn, ar ôl bron i flwyddyn o astudio’r maes, bod nifer o feysydd lle y gellid sicrhau bod cyfleusterau ar gael yn amlach, a bod mwy o gyfle i bobl gymryd rhan. Gobeithiwn i’r Gweinidog, wrth iddi baratoi ei strategaeth chwaraeon, gymryd sylw o brif argymhellion y Pwyllgor hwn.

We feel, after nearly a year of studying this subject, that there are many areas where we could ensure that facilities are available more often, and that there is more opportunity for people to participate. We hope that the Minister, as she prepares her sports strategy, takes note of this Committee’s main recommendations.

Diolchaf eto i bawb a gyfrannodd at y broses hon. Diolchaf yn arbennig i Marie Knox a’i thîm yn Ysgrifenyddiaeth y Pwyllgorau, sydd wedi gwneud gwaith gwych wrth baratoi’r adroddiad hwn. Gobeithiwn y caiff yr adroddiad dderbyniad gwresog gan Gynulliad Cenedlaethol Cymru ac y bydd y Gweinidog a fydd yn gyfrifol am ddiwylliant ar ôl yr etholiad ar 1 Mai yn defnyddio’i ganfyddiadau wrth ddatblygu polisïau.

Once again, I thank everyone who contributed to this process. I especially thank Marie Knox and her team in the Committee Secretariat, for their excellent work in preparing this report. We hope that the report will be warmly received by the National Assembly for Wales, and that the Minister responsible for culture after the election on 1 May will use its findings when developing policies.

Alison Halford spoken in English p. 92

Alison Halford siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 92

Thank you, Rhodri Glyn, for leading the Culture Committee so well. The Committee’s report goes a long way towards outlining the barriers to participation in sport in Wales, and will make the Minister’s work on her sports strategy that much easier. As Jane Hutt’s healthy and active lifestyles taskforce reported, and as Rhodri Glyn mentioned, some 50 per cent of adults in Wales are overweight—I confess that I am among that unhappy band, and the situation is getting worse—and 17 per cent are obese. There is, therefore, a strong need for a sports strategy in Wales.

Diolch i chi, Rhodri Glyn, am arwain y Pwyllgor Diwylliant mor dda. Mae adroddiad y Pwyllgor yn cyfrannu’n helaeth at amlinellu’r rhwystrau rhag cymryd rhan mewn chwaraeon yng Nghymru, a bydd yn hwyluso rywfaint ar waith y Gweinidog ar ei strategaeth chwaraeon. Fel yr adroddodd tasglu Jane Hutt ar ffyrdd o fyw iach a heini, ac fel y soniodd Rhodri Glyn, mae tua 50 y cant o oedolion yng Nghymru dros eu pwysau—cyfaddefaf fy mod yn un o’r fintai aflawen honno ac mae’r sefyllfa’n gwaethygu—ac mae 17 y cant yn ordew. Gan hynny, mae angen dybryd am strategaeth chwaraeon yng Nghymru.

Increasing participation in sport by women and by my favourite set of people, older people, is one of my key concerns. Women’s sport is influenced by a myriad of different issues. However, the barriers to participation are clear. Media images of sport that portray gender bias dissuade women from pursuing such sports as rugby, football and cricket. Women want to play these sports. Even women’s participation in traditional women’s sports, such as netball, is decreased because public provision for netball is far less than for men’s sports, forcing women to travel further to reach appropriate facilities, which are often crowded, dirty, ill-equipped and do not meet the demands of modern women. This is why I strongly support the need for leisure centres to have crèches, more private changing facilities and, vitally, a well-lit car park equipped with closed circuit television. During our review, these were three ‘hot button’ issues and all women felt that these facilities were missing at leisure centres.

Peri i fwy o fenywod, a mwy o’m hoff garfan o bobl, rhai hŷn, gymryd rhan mewn chwaraeon yw un o’r pethau sy’n bwysicaf gennyf. Mae myrdd o wahanol faterion yn dylanwadu ar chwaraeon i fenywod. Fodd bynnag, mae’r rhwystrau rhag cymryd rhan yn amlwg. Mae delweddau o chwaraeon yn y cyfryngau sy’n dangos rhagfarn yn ôl rhyw yn troi menywod oddi wrth ddilyn chwaraeon fel rygbi, pêl-droed a chriced. Mae menywod am gymryd rhan yn y chwaraeon hyn. Mae llai o fenywod yn cymryd rhan yn y chwaraeon sy’n draddodiadol ymysg menywod, fel pêl-rwyd, hyd yn oed, am fod y ddarpariaeth gyhoeddus ar gyfer pêl-rwyd yn llai o lawer na hynny ar gyfer chwaraeon dynion, ac mae hynny’n gorfodi menywod i deithio’n bellach er mwyn cyrraedd cyfleusterau addas, sy’n aml yn orlawn, yn fudr, yn wael o ran eu cyfarpar ac yn is na gofynion y fenyw fodern. Dyna pam y credaf yn gryf y dylai canolfannau hamdden fod â meithrinfeydd, cyfleusterau newid mwy preifat ac, yn hollbwysig, maes parcio â digon o olau gyda theledu cylch caeëdig. Yn ystod ein hadolygiad, y rhain oedd y tri mater amlwg ac yr oedd yr holl fenywod yn teimlo bod y cyfleusterau hyn yn eisiau mewn canolfannau hamdden.

I also believe that funding should not be limited to conventional sport. Our key goal is for women to have an active lifestyle by taking part in something that they enjoy. Aerobics has been phenomenally popular over the last few years, and we should support it as a fun and inexpensive way to keep fit.

Yr wyf hefyd yn credu na ddylid cyfyngu cyllid i chwaraeon confensiynol. Y brif nod sydd gennym yw sicrhau y caiff menywod ffordd o fyw heini drwy gymryd rhan mewn rhywbeth sy’n rhoi pleser iddynt. Bu aerobeg yn rhyfeddol o boblogaidd dros y blynyddoedd diwethaf, a dylem ei chefnogi fel modd hwyliog a rhad i gadw’n heini.

The need for an active lifestyle does not stop as you get older. Unfortunately, there remains a belief that sport is not appropriate for older people. Fortunately, this report lays that silly belief to rest. Whether you are eight or 80, an active lifestyle is vital. I am sure that the Government will act on the Committee’s support for Finland’s ‘fit for life’ campaign, which saw participation in exercise by people aged between 40 and 60 rocket by almost 50 per cent. Those people’s hearts and so on improved as a result.

Nid yw’r angen am ffordd o fyw heini’n dod i ben wrth ichi heneiddio. Gwaetha’r modd, mae cred o hyd nad yw chwaraeon yn addas i bobl hŷn. Yn ffodus, mae’r adroddiad hwn yn rhoi terfyn ar y gred wirion honno. Pa un a ydych yn wyth neu’n 80 oed, mae ffordd o fyw heini’n hollbwysig. Yr wyf yn sicr y bydd y Llywodraeth yn cymryd camau ar sail cefnogaeth y Pwyllgor i’r ymgyrch cadw’n heini gydol oes yn y Ffindir, a arweiniodd at gynnydd o ymron i 50 y cant yn y nifer rhwng 40 a 60 oed a gymerai ran mewn ymarfer. Bu gwelliant o ganlyniad i hynny yng nghalonnau’r bobl hynny ac yn eu hiechyd yn gyffredinol.

I pay a warm tribute to all my colleagues on the Committee—it was great fun. I pay particular tribute to the Committee’s secretariat, especially the stand-in clerk, Marie Knox, who worked tremendously hard to bring this interesting review to a successful conclusion. We have enjoyed our work on sport. I wish the post-election Committee every success. During this review, we have listened to a whole range of stimulating evidence. We know that there are challenges facing sport in Wales, but this report goes a long way towards ensuring that we get it right.

Talaf deyrnged wresog i’m holl gyd-aelodau ar y Pwyllgor—yr oedd yn llawer o hwyl. Talaf deyrnged yn benodol i ysgrifenyddiaeth y Pwyllgor, yn enwedig y dirprwy glerc, Marie Knox, a weithiodd yn galed dros ben i gwblhau’r adolygiad diddorol hwn yn llwyddiannus. Yr ydym wedi mwynhau ein gwaith ar chwaraeon. Dymunaf bob llwyddiant i’r Pwyllgor a ddaw ar ôl yr etholiad. Yn ystod yr adolygiad hwn, yr ydym wedi gwrando ar amrywiaeth eang o dystiolaeth ddiddorol. Gwyddom fod heriau’n wynebu chwaraeon yng Nghymru, ond mae’r adroddiad hwn yn cyfrannu’n helaeth at sicrhau ein bod yn ei gael yn iawn.

Owen John Thomas siaradwyd yn Gymraeg t. 94

Owen John Thomas spoken in Welsh p. 94

Dros y pedair blynedd diwethaf, daethom yn gyfarwydd â derbyn adroddiadau ac adolygiadau dros 100 tudalen o hyd. Yr oeddwn yn falch mai dim ond 50 tudalen yw hyd yr adroddiad hwn. Mae’n dwt a chlir, a chroesawaf hynny. Hoffwn weld adroddiadau byrrach, sy’n haws i’w darllen a’u dadansoddi.

Over the past four years, we have become accustomed to receiving reports and reviews that are over 100 pages in length. I was pleased that this report is only 50 pages long. It is clear and concise, and I welcome that. I would like to see shorter reports, which are easier to read and analyse.

Fel y dywedwyd eisoes, tynnir sylw yn yr adroddiad at grwpiau—megis menywod, pobl ifanc, lleiafrifoedd ethnig, pobl anabl a phobl mewn ardaloedd difreintiedig—sy’n cymryd llai o ran mewn chwaraeon na phobl eraill. Tynnir sylw at y ffaith bod angen creu dewis ehangach er mwyn denu mwy o bobl i gymryd rhan mewn chwaraeon.

As has already been said, attention is drawn in the report to groups—such as women, young people, ethnic minorities, disabled people and people in disadvantaged areas—who participate less in sport than do others. Attention is drawn to the fact that a wider choice must be offered in order to attract more people to participate in sport.

Fodd bynnag, mae problemau sy’n rhwystro llwyddiant a chynnydd yn y maes hwn, a rhaid inni oresgyn y rhwystrau hynny. Er enghraifft, ceir diffyg adnoddau mewn ysgolion, yn arbennig mewn ysgolion cynradd—diffyg neuaddau penodedig ar gyfer ymarfer corff, diffyg caeau chwarae mewn ysgolion yng nghanol dinasoedd, diffyg staff sy’n hyderus i roi gwersi ymarfer corff, diffyg ystafelloedd newid, diffyg amser pan fo’n rhaid teithio mewn bws i chwarae pêl-droed a diffyg arian i logi cae pob wythnos. Mae hyn i gyd yn costio. Mae’n hawdd tynnu sylw at y materion hyn, ond mae’n bwysig bod y Pwyllgor Diwylliant a’r Pwyllgor Addysg a Dysgu Gydol Oes yn cydweithio er mwyn sicrhau bod mwy o arian ar gael ar gyfer ysgolion er mwyn creu’r adnoddau a sicrhau bod rhaglenni chwaraeon yn cael eu cynnal ym mhob ysgol.

However, there are problems that stand in the way of success and progress in this field, and we must remove those barriers. For example, there is a shortage of resources in schools, particularly in primary schools—a shortage of dedicated halls for physical education, a shortage of playing fields in city centre schools, a shortage of staff who are confident in giving PE lessons, a shortage of changing rooms, a lack of time because children must travel by bus to play football and a shortage of money to hire a playing field every week. All this costs money. It is easy to draw attention to these issues, but it is important for the Culture Committee and the Education and Lifelong Learning Committee to work together to ensure that more funding is made available for schools to create the facilities that are required to deliver sports programmes in every school

Nid oes gofyniad statudol i fynnu bod awdurdodau lleol yn gwario arian ar chwaraeon, sy’n golygu na fyddant yn ariannu ymarfer corff a gweithgareddau hamdden pan fo’n ofynnol rhoi sylw i anghenion eraill, fel tai.

There is no statutory requirement that local authorities spend money on sport, which means that they will not fund physical education and leisure activities when they are required to address other needs, such as housing.

Un o brif argymhellion y tasglu ymarfer corff ar gyfer ysgolion—a sefydlwyd bron i dair blynedd yn ôl ym Mai 2000—oedd gwneud addysg gorfforol yn bwnc craidd yng nghwricwlwm ysgolion. Mae sawl blwyddyn wedi mynd heibio ers gwneud yr argymhelliad hwnnw, ond ni wnaethpwyd unrhyw beth yn ei gylch. Ni wn os yw hynny’n esiampl o ddiffyg pwerau’r Cynulliad, ond mae’n drist nad ydym yn gweithredu’r argymhelliad hwnnw naill ai drwy ddiffyg ewyllys neu drwy ddiffyg deddfwriaeth.

One of the main recommendations of the school PE taskforce—which was established nearly three years ago in May 2000—was to make PE a core subject in the school curriculum. Many years have passed since that recommendation was made, but nothing has been done about it. I do not know whether that is another example of the inadequacy of Assembly powers, but it is sad that we have not implemented that recommendation either through a lack of will or through a lack of legislation.

I gloi, trof at bwysigrwydd chwaraeon i ddyfodol y genedl. Soniodd nifer o Aelodau am bwysigrwydd chwaraeon yng nghyd-destun iechyd, ond fel y mae’r adolygiad yn ei ddweud, mae chwaraeon yn rhan allweddol o wead ein cymunedau a phe bai mwy o adnoddau ar gael i bobl ifanc gymryd rhan mewn chwaraeon yn ystod yr haf a’r gaeaf, byddai llawer llai o droseddu. Adlewyrchir hynny mewn sawl adroddiad. Mae hefyd yn bwysig ein bod yn cyflawni hyn o’r gwaelod i fyny. Er enghraifft, byddai darparu mwy o arian i ysgolion ar gyfer ymarfer corff yn sicrhau y byddai’r disgyblion yn gallu gwneud ymarfer corff yn well, ac yn chwarae rygbi o well safon.

In closing, I turn to the importance of sport to the future of the nation. Many Members have already mentioned the importance of sport in the context of health, but as the review states, sport is a vital part of the fabric of our communities and if more resources were made available for young people to participate in sports during the summer and winter, there would be far less criminal activity. Many reports have shown that to be the case. It is also important that we do this from the bottom up. For example, providing more money for schools would ensure that the pupils would be better at physical activity, and would play rugby to a higher standard.

Wrth greu canolfan ragoriaeth ar y cyd rhwng Cymdeithas Peldroed Cymru ac Undeb Rygbi Cymru byddem yn gallu darparu caeau ymarfer ac adnoddau hyfforddi er mwyn magu doniau ein timau cenedlaethol o dan 21 ac o dan 16. Byddem yn gallu dal ein pennau yn uchel fel Cymry a sicrhau bod gennym chwaraewyr a fyddai’n gallu cystadlu yn erbyn timau gorau’r byd.

By creating a joint centre of excellence between the Football Association of Wales and the Welsh Rugby Union, we could provide training pitches and facilities to develop the talents of our under 21 and under 16 national teams. We could then hold our heads up high as Welsh people and be proud of players able to compete against the best teams in the world.

Rosemary Butler spoken in English p. 96

Rosemary Butler siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 96

It is clear from reading the report that many good initiatives are in place in Wales. We must ensure that the higher standard is spread across the country. The report highlights the Sports Council for Wales and its work. The sports council is held in high regard across Britain and Elite Cymru is a European model of best practice. The report recognises the huge involvement of local authorities, which we should never forget. We must ensure that facilities are accessible, affordable and, as Alison said, of the highest possible standard. However, although it is a good report, it must be considered to be interim. We only had a short time in which to consider it and, in that space of time, we did a good job. However, we have not received the input of the Health and Social Services Committee and the Education and Lifelong Learning Committee, which is important. We need to apply the example of peripatetic teachers in music—they are the norm. Why cannot that be the case in sport and PE?

Mae’n amlwg wrth ddarllen yr adroddiad fod llawer o fentrau da ar waith yng Nghymru. Rhaid inni sicrhau y caiff y safon uwch ei lledaenu ar draws y wlad. Mae’r adroddiad yn tynnu sylw at Gyngor Chwaraeon Cymru a’i waith. Mae parch mawr at y cyngor chwaraeon ledled Prydain ac mae Elite Cymru yn fodel o arfer da Ewropeaidd. Mae’r adroddiad yn cydnabod y rhan enfawr a gymerir gan awdurdodau lleol, ac ni ddylem byth anghofio hynny. Rhaid inni sicrhau bod cyfleusterau’n hygyrch, yn fforddiadwy ac, fel y dywedodd Alison, yn rhai sydd o’r safon uchaf posibl. Serch hynny, er ei fod yn adroddiad da, rhaid ei ystyried yn un dros dro. Dim ond cyfnod byr a gawsom i’w ystyried ac, yn y cyfnod hwnnw, gwnaethom waith da. Fodd bynnag, ni chawsom fewnbwn gan y Pwyllgor Iechyd a Gwasanaethau Cymdeithasol a’r Pwyllgor Addysg a Dysgu Gydol Oes, ac mae’n bwysig cael hynny. Dylem gymhwyso’r enghraifft o athrawon cerdd teithiol—dyna’r norm. Pam na all hynny ddigwydd mewn chwaraeon ac addysg gorfforol?

Sport and physical activity is truly inclusive. I have always considered sport to be a great leveller. When you see a team playing on a pitch, the players’ backgrounds are never known—they could be rich or poor. It is important that we ensure that everyone across Wales has the opportunity to participate in sports. Many Members mentioned cost and investing money. I do not see this as a cost to the nation; it is a true investment in the people. I look forward to seeing the other reports in the Assembly’s next session.

Mae chwaraeon a gweithgaredd corfforol yn wirioneddol gynhwysol. Yr wyf bob amser yn ystyried bod chwaraeon yn wastatäwr mawr. Pan welwch dîm yn chwarae ar gae, ni wyddys beth yw cefndir y chwaraewyr—gallent fod yn gefnog neu’n dlawd. Mae’n bwysig inni sicrhau bod pawb ledled Cymru’n cael cyfle i gymryd rhan mewn chwaraeon. Cyfeiriodd llawer o Aelodau at gost a buddsoddi arian. Ni welaf fod hyn yn gost i’r genedl; mae’n fuddsoddiad gwirioneddol mewn pobl. Edrychaf ymlaen at weld yr adroddiadau eraill yn sesiwn nesaf y Cynulliad.

Geraint Davies spoken in English p. 96

Geraint Davies siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 96

I congratulate the Committee on this important report. Sport activities and health improvement are important in breaking the chain between poverty, deprivation and ill health. The earlier we start, and the earlier we teach people good health habits, the more likely they are to follow those habits throughout their lifetimes, and the more likely they are to pass them on to other people. I am proud to say that a Rhondda Cynon Taf County Borough Council initiative will offer free use of council sports facilities to children and young people during the forthcoming Easter holidays. The innovative free swimming plus programme will offer a variety of sports activities and swimming for 16-year-olds and under, free of charge at council pools and sports centres. I warmly welcome Rhodri Morgan’s announcement of free swimming in 10 local authorities for the Easter holidays, but I am proud to say that Rhondda Cynon Taf has taken its programme a step further. It is unique in Wales, and it offers not only free swimming, but also all other sports activities provided by leisure centres, including team sports, such as basketball, netball and football, which promote a social aspect.

Llongyfarchaf y Pwyllgor ar yr adroddiad pwysig hwn. Mae gweithgareddau chwaraeon a gwella iechyd yn bwysig o ran torri’r cyswllt rhwng tlodi, amddifadedd ac iechyd gwael. Gorau po gyntaf y dechreuwn ac y dysgwn arferion iechyd da i bobl, gan y byddant yn fwy tebygol wedyn o ddilyn yr arferion hynny gydol eu hoes, ac o’u trosglwyddo i bobl eraill. Yr wyf yn falch o ddweud y bydd menter gan Gyngor Bwrdeistref Sirol Rhondda Cynon Taf yn cynnig defnydd am ddim o gyfleusterau chwaraeon y cyngor i blant a phobl ifanc yn ystod gwyliau’r Pasg sydd ar ddod. Bydd y rhaglen arloesol o nofio a mwy am ddim yn cynnig amryw o weithgareddau chwaraeon a nofio i rai 16 mlwydd oed a llai, yn rhad ac am ddim ym mhyllau nofio a chanolfannau chwaraeon y cyngor. Yr wyf yn croesawu’n fawr y cyhoeddiad gan Rhodri Morgan o nofio am ddim mewn 10 awdurdod lleol ar gyfer gwyliau’r Pasg, ond yr wyf yn falch o ddweud bod Rhondda Cynon Taf wedi mynd â’i raglen gam ymhellach. Mae’n unigryw yng Nghymru ac, yn ogystal â nofio am ddim, mae’n cynnig yr holl weithgareddau chwaraeon eraill a ddarperir gan ganolfannau hamdden, gan gynnwys chwaraeon tîm, fel pêl-fasged, pêl-rwyd a phêl-droed, sydd yn hyrwyddo agwedd gymdeithasol.

We suffer from high rates of ill health in the Valleys, and we must do all that we can to encourage good exercise and healthy lifestyles for all. What better way is there to do that than by giving all our youngsters the chance to participate in sports activities free of charge? Children enjoying their school holidays, who might ordinarily be unable to take advantage of sports facilities for financial reasons, will now have plenty of time to delight in the free swimming and numerous sporting activities that have been planned.

Yr ydym yn dioddef gan gyfraddau uchel o iechyd gwael yn y Cymoedd, a rhaid inni wneud popeth a allwn i hybu ymarfer da a ffyrdd o fyw iach i bawb. Pa ffordd well o wneud hynny na thrwy roi cyfle i’n holl bobl ifanc gymryd rhan mewn gweithgareddau chwaraeon yn rhad ac am ddim? Bellach, bydd plant sy’n mwynhau eu gwyliau ysgol, na allent fanteisio ar gyfleusterau chwaraeon fel arfer am resymau ariannol, yn cael digon o amser i gael pleser mewn nofio rhad ac am ddim a’r nifer fawr o weithgareddau chwaraeon a gynlluniwyd.

Glyn Davies spoken in English p. 97

Glyn Davies siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 97

I congratulate the Chair of the Committee on the interesting, and sometimes colourful, way that he has chaired it. He has kept our attention throughout. I apologise that I have not been able to participate as much as I would have liked on this particular item because I have been troubled by a degree of ill health. I am sorry about that because I have always been a sports fanatic, recognising that it can provide a tremendous amount of enjoyment to young people. It has underpinned my social life, and lately, I have understood its contribution to good health in Wales. That is how we must see sport in the future. Personal fitness has been hugely important to me, and it was crucial to my recovery from the operation that I underwent just before Christmas. Yesterday, I was particularly proud of myself—I am sometimes proud of myself—for being able to run three miles to help the McMillan nurses launch their colon cancer awareness month in Cardiff, just 12-and-a-half weeks after undergoing fairly major surgery. [Applause.]

Llongyfarchaf Gadeirydd y Pwyllgor ar ei ddull diddorol, a lliwgar weithiau, o’i gadeirio. Hoeliodd ein sylw drwy gydol yr amser. Ymddiheuraf am na fu modd imi gymryd cymaint o ran ag y dymunaswn yn yr eitem benodol hon gan imi gael fy mlino gan rywfaint o iechyd gwael. Mae’n flin gennyf am hynny gan fy mod yn un selog dros chwaraeon erioed, ac yn sylweddoli y gallant roi llawer iawn o fwynhad i bobl ifanc. Buont yn sylfaen i’m bywyd cymdeithasol ac, yn ddiweddar, yr wyf wedi deall eu cyfraniad at iechyd da yng Nghymru. Dyna sut y dylem weld chwaraeon yn y dyfodol. Bu ffitrwydd personol yn bwysig dros ben i mi, ac yr oedd yn hollbwysig yn fy adferiad ar ôl y llawdriniaeth a gefais ychydig cyn y Nadolig. Ddoe, yr oeddwn yn falch iawn ohonof fy hun—fel y byddaf weithiau—am allu rhedeg tair milltir i helpu nyrsys McMillan i lansio eu mis ymwybyddiaeth o ganser y coluddyn mawr yng Nghaerdydd, a hynny dim ond 12 wythnos a hanner ar ôl cael llawdriniaeth eithaf mawr. [Cymeradwyaeth.]

Words, of which there are many good ones in this strategy, are not enough—we must translate them into action. I have, on many occasions, raised the issue of having a gym in the National Assembly. It is all very well talking about encouraging people to participate in sport, but it is appalling that a building like this, where so many people have lifestyles that make it difficult for them to participate in sport, does not have a gym.

Nid yw geiriau, y ceir llawer iawn o rai da yn y strategaeth hon, yn ddigon—rhaid inni eu troi’n weithredoedd. Yr wyf wedi codi’r mater o gael campfa yn y Cynulliad Cenedlaethol lawer gwaith. Digon hawdd yw sôn am annog pobl i gymryd rhan mewn chwaraeon, ond mae’n warthus nad oes campfa mewn adeilad fel hwn, lle y mae gan gynifer o bobl ffyrdd o fyw sy’n ei gwneud yn anodd iddynt gymryd rhan mewn chwaraeon.

Lorraine Barrett a gododd—

Lorraine Barrett rose—

Glyn Davies spoken in English p. 98

Glyn Davies siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 98

In a moment. I do not mean a glossy, St David’s hotel type gym. I am talking about somewhere where people can go to exercise during the half an hour they manage to find during a busy day.

Mewn eiliad. Nid campfa foethus o’r math a geir yng ngwesty Dewi Sant sydd gennyf dan sylw. Yr wyf yn sôn am rywle y gall pobl fynd iddo i ymarfer yn ystod yr hanner awr y llwyddant i’w gael yn ystod diwrnod prysur.

Lorraine Barrett spoken in English p. 98

Lorraine Barrett siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 98

Do you therefore look forward to the time when we have a new debating chamber, when this room could be turned into a gym?

Felly a ydych yn edrych ymlaen at yr adeg y cawn siambr ddadlau newydd, pan ellid troi’r ystafell hon yn gampfa?

Glyn Davies spoken in English p. 98

Glyn Davies siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 98

If the Assembly is unwise enough to go forward with the new building, then this particular room would be useful as a gymnasium.

Os yw’r Cynulliad mor annoeth â mynd ymlaen â’r adeilad newydd, byddai’r ystafell benodol hon yn ddefnyddiol fel campfa.

Eleanor Burnham spoken in English p. 98

Eleanor Burnham siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 98

Do you not believe that a swimming pool—which we would not expect the people of Wales to pay for—as opposed to a gym, would be better? Swimming pools are far healthier, because people can cause themselves great harm in gyms.

Oni chredwch y byddai pwll nofio—na ddisgwyliem i bobl Cymru dalu amdano—yn well, yn hytrach na champfa? Mae pyllau nofio’n iachach o lawer, oherwydd gall pobl beri niwed mawr iddynt eu hun mewn campfeydd.

Glyn Davies spoken in English p. 98

Glyn Davies siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 98

I can do no more than say that that was a typical Liberal Democrat intervention. I want to move on, but I will take one more intervention.

Y cwbl y gallaf ei ddweud yw mai ymyriad nodweddiadol gan y Democratiaid Rhyddfrydol oedd hwnnw. Dymunaf symud ymlaen, ond gwnaf dderbyn un ymyriad arall.

Brian Gibbons spoken in English p. 98

Brian Gibbons siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 98

Do you agree that there are many opportunities for people to exercise in this building, if only they walked regularly up and down the stairs instead of using the lifts, as so many people do?

A gytunwch fod llawer o gyfleoedd i bobl ymarfer yn yr adeilad hwn, pe na fyddent ond yn cerdded i fyny ac i lawr y grisiau yn lle defnyddio’r lifftiau, fel y gwnaiff cynifer?

Glyn Davies spoken in English p. 99

Glyn Davies siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 99

That was a constructive suggestion from Brian Gibbons, which I heartily endorse.

Yr oedd hwnnw’n awgrym adeiladol gan Brian Gibbons, ac fe’i cymeradwyaf yn galonnog.

I want to criticise the Minister. In terms of sport, the Minister’s performance has not been all that it should have been. There was an article in Wales on Sunday this week, which many of you will have read, which was quite fair, as I do not think that the Minister has given the appropriate priority to sport. If the Conservatives are swept to power on 1 May, and I were lucky enough to become the Minister responsible for sport, I can reassure the people of Wales that sport would be given a much higher priority in the investments and activities of the National Assembly.

Dymunaf feirniadu’r Gweinidog. Yng nghyd-destun chwaraeon, ni fu perfformiad y Gweinidog gystal ag y dylai fod. Bu erthygl yn Wales on Sunday yr wythnos hon, y bydd llawer ohonoch wedi’i darllen, a oedd yn eithaf teg, gan na chredaf fod y Gweinidog wedi rhoi blaenoriaeth briodol i chwaraeon. Os caiff y Ceidwadwyr eu hysgubo i lywodraeth ar 1 Mai, a phe byddwn i’n ddigon ffodus i ddod yn Weinidog a oedd yn gyfrifol am chwaraeon, gallaf sicrhau pobl Cymru y câi chwaraeon flaenoriaeth uwch o lawer ym muddsoddiadau a gweithgareddau’r Cynulliad Cenedlaethol.

There are a few more points where I think that the Minister has failed and I am not only saying these things because there will soon be an election and I want to emphasise the Minister’s failings. There can be no doubt that, during her tenure of office, she has not delivered that which she should have. I want to touch on a few examples. One is the share of lottery funding that Wales receives. The Minister agrees with us, but she has not delivered Wales’s rightful share. This morning a headmaster who has a good project in his school telephoned me. He told me that new opportunities fund money is not being spent. It is being held up, and again the Minister is not delivering. The earlier Liberal Democrat intervention typified what we often hear from the Minister—much talk of rather silly ideas that are not practical. Delivery is nil and the people of Wales should take the opportunity to ensure that we are not burdened by this sort of Minister in the future.

Mae ychydig yn rhagor o bwyntiau lle y credaf fod y Gweinidog wedi methu ac nid wyf ond yn dweud y pethau hyn am fod etholiad gerllaw ac am fy mod am bwysleisio diffygion y Gweinidog. Nid oes dwywaith, yn ystod ei chyfnod yn ei swydd, nad yw wedi cyflawni’r hyn a ddylasai. Dymunaf gyfeirio at ychydig o enghreifftiau. Un ohonynt yw’r gyfran o’r cyllid loteri a gaiff Cymru. Mae’r Gweinidog yn cytuno â ni, ond nid yw wedi sicrhau’r gyfran y dylai Cymru ei chael. Y bore yma cefais alwad teleffon gan bennaeth ysgol sydd â phrosiect da yn ei ysgol. Dywedodd wrthyf nad yw arian y gronfa cyfleoedd newydd yn cael ei wario. Mae’n cael ei ddal yn ôl, ac unwaith eto nid yw’r Gweinidog yn mynd â’r maen i’r wal. Yr oedd yr ymyriad cynharach gan un o’r Democratiaid Rhyddfrydol yn nodweddiadol o’r hyn a glywn gan y Gweinidog—llawer o sôn am syniadau braidd yn wirion ac anymarferol. Ni chyflawnir dim a dylai pobl Cymru achub ar y cyfle i sicrhau na chawn ein llethu gan y math hwn o Weinidog yn y dyfodol.

Jenny Randerson The Minister for Culture, Sport and the Welsh Language spoken in English p. 99

Jenny Randerson Y Gweinidog dros Ddiwylliant, Chwaraeon a’r Gymraeg siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 99

Despite Glyn’s cheap shots I suggest that ‘this sort of Minister’ probably means that, in his eyes, we should not have a female Minister for sport. The boys in the Tory group probably think that a man would do better. Despite that cheap and unpleasant shot, which I think is beneath you Glyn—

Er gwaethaf yr ergydion diraddiol gan Glyn, awgrymaf mai’r hyn y mae ‘y math hwn o Weinidog’ yn ei olygu, yn ôl pob tebyg, yw, yn ei olwg ef, na ddylem gael menyw yn Weinidog dros chwaraeon. Mae’n debyg bod y bechgyn yn y grŵp Torïaidd yn credu y gwnâi dyn yn well. Er gwaethaf yr ergyd ddiraddiol ac annymunol honno, na chredaf ei bod yn deilwng ohonoch, Glyn—

Glyn Davies a gododd—

Glyn Davies rose—

Jenny Randerson spoken in English p. 100

Jenny Randerson siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 100

No. I am not taking an intervention from you.

Na. Ni dderbyniaf ymyriad gennych.

Glyn Davies spoken in English p. 100

Glyn Davies siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 100

Then you should not make such stupid comments.

Os felly, ni ddylech wneud sylwadau mor dwp.

Jenny Randerson spoken in English p. 100

Jenny Randerson siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 100

You should not make comments like that.

Ni ddylech wneud sylwadau fel hwnnw.

John Marek The Deputy Presiding Officer spoken in English p. 100

John Marek Y Dirprwy Lywydd siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 100

Order.

Trefn.

Jenny Randerson spoken in English p. 100

Jenny Randerson siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 100

As a Committee, we have worked constructively and effectively together and I thank the Chair and Committee members, for their important work in scoping a fundamentally important task, which will be addressed in the next Assembly. That task is to maximise the contribution that sport, physical activity and active recreation make to wellbeing in Wales across its many dimensions, which are reflected in all ministerial portfolios. The Committee has recognised this reality and has opted for a cross-cutting, integrated approach. Over several months, the Welsh Assembly Government has been working towards a strategic response, and that work is largely completed. While it would be inappropriate for me to consult publicly during the period of purdah, the election period, I am confident that the ground has been prepared for radical thinking and action.

Fel Pwyllgor, yr ydym wedi gweithio’n adeiladol ac yn effeithiol gyda’n gilydd a diolchaf i’r Cadeirydd ac aelodau’r Pwyllgor am eu gwaith pwysig wrth gwmpasu gorchwyl hanfodol bwysig, a gaiff sylw yn y Cynulliad nesaf. Y gorchwyl hwnnw yw amlhau cyfraniad chwaraeon, gweithgaredd corfforol ac adloniant gweithredol i bob agwedd ar les yng Nghymru, a adlewyrchir y mhortffolios yr holl Weinidogion. Mae’r Pwyllgor wedi cydnabod y gwirionedd hwn ac wedi dewis dull gweithredu integredig a thrawsbynciol. Dros sawl mis, bu Llywodraeth Cynulliad Cymru yn gweithio i roi ymateb strategol, ac mae’r gwaith hwnnw wedi’i gwblhau i raddau helaeth. Er y byddai’n amhriodol imi ymgynghori’n gyhoeddus yn ystod y cyfnod o neilltuaeth, cyfnod yr etholiad, yr wyf yn ffyddiog bod y tir wedi’i fraenaru ar gyfer meddwl a gweithredu radical.

Today, I will discuss some of the basic principles.

Heddiw, trafodaf rai o’r egwyddorion sylfaenol.

Brian Hancock spoken in English p. 100

Brian Hancock siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 100

Minister, you are talking about radical action, and Rosemary mentioned peripatetic assistance. In this radical situation, will you consider supporting the coaches and trainers of various sports so that they can get time off work, if they needed it, to up their skills, to be able to provide those sports throughout Wales?

Weinidog, yr ydych yn sôn am weithredu radical, a chyfeiriodd Rosemary at gymorth gan athrawon teithiol. Yn y sefyllfa radical hon, a wnewch ystyried cynorthwyo hyfforddwyr gwahanol chwaraeon fel y gallant gael amser o’u gwaith, os oes arnynt angen hynny, i wella eu sgiliau, er mwyn gallu darparu’r chwaraeon hynny ledled Cymru?

Jenny Randerson spoken in English p. 101

Jenny Randerson siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 101

I am conscious of the need to develop more time and resources for coaches. Halfway through last year I asked the Sports Council for Wales to produce a strategy on coaching, for which I am waiting. I hope that additional money will be available for that—it has been earmarked. The vision for the future is simple—an active, healthy and inclusive world where sports, physical activity and active recreation provide a common platform for endeavour, participation, achievement and fun, which binds communities and the nation. It foresees a world in which sustainable use of the outstanding environment of Wales enhances our confidence in ourselves and our place in the world.

Yr wyf yn ymwybodol o’r angen i ddatblygu mwy o amser ac adnoddau ar gyfer hyfforddwyr. Hanner ffordd drwy’r flwyddyn ddiwethaf gofynnais i Gyngor Chwaraeon Cymru lunio strategaeth ar hyfforddi, ac yr wyf yn disgwyl amdani. Gobeithiaf y bydd arian ychwanegol ar gael ar gyfer hynny—mae wedi’i glustnodi. Mae’r weledigaeth ar gyfer y dyfodol yn un syml—byd gweithgar, iach a chynhwysol lle y mae chwaraeon, gweithgaredd corfforol ac adloniant gweithredol yn cynnig llwyfan cyffredin ar gyfer ymdrechu, cyfranogi, cyflawni a hwyl, sy’n asio cymunedau a’r genedl. Rhagwelir byd lle y bydd defnydd cynaliadwy o amgylchedd eithriadol Cymru’n atgyfnerthu hyder ynom ni’n hunain a’n lle yn y byd.

John Griffiths spoken in English p. 101

John Griffiths siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 101

Will you encourage Members to set a personal example as the Assembly football team did last year when it played against the Houses of Parliament as a precursor to the community shield? Another tournament is planned for this year when the Scottish Parliament and, I hope, the Northern Ireland Assembly will also take part. Will you encourage Assembly Members to participate in such activities, to set personal examples, and to show their commitment in a practical way? Finally, will you encourage us all to canvass and distribute leaflets as energetically as possible, so that if re-elected, we return fitter and more able to play football in August?

A wnewch annog Aelodau i osod esiampl bersonol fel y gwnaeth tîm pêl-droed y Cynulliad y llynedd pan chwaraeodd yn erbyn y Senedd cyn ymgiprys am darian y gymuned? Bwriedir cynnal twrnamaint arall eleni pan fydd Senedd yr Alban ac, yr wyf yn gobeithio, Cynlliad Gogledd Iwerddon yn cymryd rhan hefyd. A wnewch annog Aelodau o’r Cynulliad i gymryd rhan mewn gweithgareddau o’r fath, i osod esiampl bersonol, ac i ddangos eu hymrwymiad yn ymarferol? Yn olaf, a wnewch ein hannog i gyd i ganfasio a dosbarthu taflenni mor egnïol ag y bo modd, fel y dychwelwn, pe cawn ein hailethol, yn fwy heini ac abl i chwarae pêl-droed yn Awst?

Jenny Randerson spoken in English p. 101

Jenny Randerson siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 101

I am sure that we will all be much fitter when we return, and I always encourage physical activity. We must be more physically active. The Committee has emphasised health, and the health gains are tremendous. By investing in being more active, we can avoid hundreds of premature deaths each year and improve our quality of life. Building on the existing GP referral schemes is one way to achieve this. We need active citizens to deliver long-term prosperity, which is linked to physical activity as it is to health. Not only do health and fitness form part of any sensible definition of wellbeing, but healthy people are more productive and more confident.

Yr wyf yn sicr y byddwn oll yn fwy heini pan ddychwelwn, ac yr wyf bob amser yn cymell gweithgaredd corfforol. Rhaid inni fod yn fwy heini. Mae’r Pwyllgor wedi rhoi pwys ar iechyd, ac mae’r cynnydd mewn iechyd yn aruthrol. Drwy fuddsoddi i fod yn fwy gweithgar, gallwn osgoi cannoedd o farwolaethau cynamserol bob blwyddyn a gwella ansawdd ein bywyd. Datblygu’r cynlluniau atgyfeirio presennol sydd gan feddygon teulu yw un modd i gyflawni hynny. Mae arnom angen dinasyddion gweithgar i sicrhau ffyniant tymor-hir, sy’n gysylltiedig â gweithgaredd corfforol yn ogystal ag iechyd. Nid yn unig y mae iechyd a ffitrwydd yn rhan o unrhyw ddiffiniad synhwyrol o les, ond mae pobl iach yn fwy cynhyrchiol a hyderus hefyd.

From the economic studies that underpin the Department for Culture, Media and Sport’s report, ‘Game Plan’, we know that a 10 per cent improvement in levels of physical activity among Welsh adults would—as a conservative estimate—contribute more than £100 million to the Welsh economy every year. Over time, I want to see dynamic sports and leisure industries contributing thousands of additional jobs to the Welsh economy. Free access to swimming facilities in leisure centres this Easter and throughout Wales in the summer is a start. I want to ensure that we provide young people with a much wider level of free entry to sports facilities. Wales needs to maximise the synergy between sport, physical activity and the environment in a sustainable way. [Interruption.] I cannot take any more interventions. Mountain bike ranges are making a new and exciting contribution. Let us have more of them. Wales needs its people to be more sports-literate to acquire the best generic set of sports skills, the necessary physical toolkit and qualifications for children and young people. We need more active communities, and those are most desperately required in the areas of greatest social exclusion and deprivation.

Yn ôl yr astudiaethau economaidd sy’n sail i adroddiad yr Adran dros Ddiwylliant, y Cyfryngau a Chwaraeon, ‘Game Plan’, gwyddom y byddai gwelliant o 10 y cant yn lefelau gweithgaredd corfforol ymysg oedolion yng Nghymru’n cyfrannu—ar amcangyfrif ceidwadol—fwy na £100 miliwn i economi Cymru bob blwyddyn. Dros amser, dymunaf weld cyfrannu miloedd o swyddi ychwanegol i economi Cymru drwy ddiwydiannau chwaraeon a hamdden deinamig. Mae mynediad am ddim i gyfleusterau nofio mewn canolfannau hamdden y Pasg hwn a ledled Cymru yn yr haf yn fan cychwyn. Dymunaf sicrhau ein bod yn cynnig mynediad rhad ac am ddim i bobl ifanc i ddewis ehangach o gyfleusterau chwaraeon. Rhaid i Gymru sicrhau’r synergedd cynaliadwy mwyaf posibl rhwng chwaraeon, gweithgaredd corfforol a’r amgylchedd. [Torri ar draws.] Ni allaf dderbyn rhagor o ymyriadau. Mae meysydd reidio beiciau mynydd yn cynnig cyfraniad newydd a chyffrous. Gadewch inni gael rhagor ohonynt. Mae ar Gymru angen i’w phobl fod yn fwy hyddysg mewn chwaraeon fel y gallant sicrhau’r set generig orau o sgiliau chwaraeon, y gallu corfforol angenrheidiol a chymwysterau ar gyfer plant a phobl ifanc. Mae arnom angen cymunedau mwy gweithgar, ac mae’r gofyn amdanynt yn fwyaf taer yn yr ardaloedd lle ceir yr allgáu cymdeithasol a’r amddifadedd mwyaf.

Eleanor Burnham a gododd—

Eleanor Burnham rose—

Jenny Randerson spoken in English p. 102

Jenny Randerson siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 102

I am sorry. I cannot take any more interventions. Sport can make such a difference. The free swimming initiative, first piloted in Glasgow, had much more effect in the most deprived community.

Mae’n ddrwg gennyf. Ni allaf dderbyn rhagor o ymyriadau. Gall chwaraeon wneud cymaint o wahaniaeth. Cafodd y fenter nofio am ddim gyntaf, a ragbrofwyd yn Glasgow, fwy o effaith o lawer yn y gymuned fwyaf difreintiedig.

We need more systematic and sustainable success in the sports that matter most to us. We are a small country, but we need to think big. We need to consider the impact that Mark Hughes and the Wales football team has on the morale of our country. We need to look at the effect that Colin Jackson’s sustained success has had on us. We need not accept peripheral status. We are a small country and we need to win big.

Mae arnom angen llwyddiant mwy systematig a chynaliadwy yn y chwaraeon sydd bwysicaf i ni. Gwlad fach ydym, ond rhaid inni fod yn uchelgeisiol. Rhaid inni ystyried yr effaith a gaiff Mark Hughes a thîm pêl-droed Cymru ar forâl ein gwlad. Rhaid inni ystyried yr effaith a fu arnom o ganlyniad i lwyddiant cyson Colin Jackson. Nid oes rhaid inni dderbyn statws ymylol. Gwlad fach ydym a rhaid inni fod yn uchelgeisiol.

Rosemary mentioned the importance of local authorities. We will need to consider the future structure of sport in Wales. The recent quinquennial review confirmed the need for a sports council, but levelled serious challenges at that sports council. Some fundamental issues and questions have to be addressed about the way it operates. It must operate in partnership and embrace the change that devolution has brought. The reviewers said that the sports council was at a crossroads. The council needs to take that into account and embrace the future. There are tremendous opportunities in sport. We need to think more broadly, fund more broadly and develop broader, systematic objectives. The sports council will be part of the jigsaw of funding. Funding for free swimming went directly to local authorities and we need to encourage them along the way of sports participation as well.

Cyfeiriodd Rosemary at bwysigrwydd awdurdodau lleol. Bydd yn rhaid inni ystyried strwythur chwaraeon yng Nghymru yn y dyfodol. Gwnaeth yr adolygiad pum mlynedd diweddar gadarnhau’r angen am gyngor chwaraeon, ond cynigiodd heriau difrifol i’r cyngor chwaraeon hwnnw. Rhaid ymdrin â rhai materion a chwestiynau sylfaenol ynghylch ei ddull o weithredu. Rhaid iddo weithredu mewn partneriaeth a chofleidio’r newid a ddaeth yn sgîl datganoli. Dywedodd yr adolygwyr fod y cyngor chwaraeon ar groesffordd. Rhaid i’r cyngor ystyried hynny a chroesawu’r dyfodol. Mae cyfleoedd aruthrol mewn chwaraeon. Rhaid inni fod yn fwy eangfrydig, a chyllido’n fwy eang a datblygu amcanion systematig ac ehangach. Bydd y cyngor chwaraeon yn rhan o’r jig-so cyllido. Aeth y cyllid ar gyfer nofio am ddim yn syth i awdurdodau lleol a rhaid inni eu hannog hwythau i hybu cymryd rhan mewn chwaraeon hefyd.

We need sport and physical and active recreation at the heart of Welsh life and at the forefront of Government policy, making it integral and complementary, making a radical difference to the way we live and see ourselves and, importantly, how the rest of the world sees us.

Rhaid inni sicrhau bod chwaraeon ac adloniant corfforol a gweithredol ar ganol bywyd Cymru ac yn flaenllaw ym mholisi Llywodraeth, gan ei wneud yn rhywbeth hanfodol ac chyflenwol sy’n gwneud gwahaniaeth radical i’n ffordd o fyw a’r modd y gwelwn ni ein hun ac, yn bwysig, y modd y mae gweddill y byd yn ein gweld.

Rhodri Glyn Thomas siaradwyd yn Gymraeg t. 103

Rhodri Glyn Thomas spoken in Welsh p. 103

Diolchaf i bawb am ymateb mor gadarnhaol i’r adroddiad hwn. Yr wyf yn falch o weld bod ganddo gefnogaeth eang. Soniodd Alison am yr angen inni edrych ar y cyfleoedd sydd gan fenywod i gymryd rhan mewn ymarfer corff a chwaraeon. Mae hynny’n eithriadol o bwysig. Soniodd Owen John Thomas am rai o ddiffygion y system bresennol, a chredaf fod cyfle gwirioneddol i fireinio’r ddarpariaeth er mwyn cynnig mwy o fynediad i bobl a’u galluogi i gymryd rhan.

I thank everyone for responding so positively to this report. I am pleased to see that it is widely supported. Alison mentioned the need for us to look at opportunities for women to participate in physical exercise and sports. This is exceedingly important. Owen John Thomas remarked on some of the deficiencies in the present system, and I think that there is a real opportunity to fine tune the provision in order offer increased access to people and enable them to participate.

Ann Jones spoken in English p. 103

Ann Jones siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 103

On the point of women participating in sport, will you join me in condemning the Football Association of Wales, which is yet again stopping young girls from excelling in the sport? We had the same situation with Caroline Hume, from my constituency, whose case we fought and won. She won the Denbighshire sportsperson of the year award playing mixed football. Should not the FAW join the twenty-first century and allow mixed football?

Ynghylch menywod sy’n cymryd rhan mewn chwaraeon, a wnewch ymuno â mi i gollfarnu Cymdeithas Bêl-droed Cymru, sydd unwaith eto’n atal merched ifanc rhag rhagori mewn chwaraeon? Cawsom yr un sefyllfa yn achos Caroline Hume, o’m hetholaeth i, y gwnaethom bledio ei hachos ac ennill. Enillodd wobr chwaraewr y flwyddyn Sir Ddinbych drwy chwarae pêl-droed cymysg. Oni ddylai Cymdeithas Bêl-droed Cymru ddod i’r unfed ganrif ar hugain a chaniatáu pêl-droed cymysg?

Rhodri Glyn Thomas spoken in Welsh and English p. 104

Rhodri Glyn Thomas siaradwyd yn Gymraeg ac yn Saesneg t. 104

It seems that the FAW is not in the twentieth century, let alone the twenty-first. I endorse Ann’s remarks. It is important that young women have the opportunity to excel. A number of good women’s football teams compete at a high level,

yn Saesneg Ymddengys nad yw Cymdeithas Bêl-droed Cymru yn yr ugeinfed ganrif, heb sôn am yr unfed ganrif ar hugain. Ategaf sylwadau Ann. Mae’n bwysig bod menywod ifanc yn cael cyfle i ragori. Mae nifer o dimau pêl-droed menywod yn cystadlu ar lefel uchel.

Yr wyf yn synnu braidd na soniodd Owen John Thomas am bêl fas yn ei gyfraniad. Cyfeiriodd at bêl fas yn y Pwyllgor, a mynnu bod cyfeiriad at bêl fas yn yr adroddiad. Soniodd Rosemary am rôl yr awdurdodau lleol ac am bwysigrwydd cynnwys y Pwyllgor Addysg a Dysgu Gydol Oes a’r Pwyllgor Iechyd a Gwasanaethau Cymdeithasol yn y broses hon. Yr wyf wedi ysgrifennu atynt a thynnu eu sylw at yr adroddiad, a mawr obeithiaf y byddant, wedi 1 Mai, yn ystyried yr adroddiad a gweld sut y gallant gyfrannu at y broses. Nid adroddiad unwaith ac am byth yw hwn, sy’n aros yn yr unfan. Yr wyf yn gobeithio y bydd yn datblygu ac y bydd cyfraniadau ato.

in Welsh I am somewhat surprised that Owen John Thomas did not mention baseball in his contribution. He referred to baseball in the Committee, and insisted on a reference to it in the report. Rosemary mentioned the role of local authorities and the importance of including the Education and Lifelong Learning Committee and the Health and Social Services Committee in this process. I have written to them and drawn their attention to the report, and I hope that, after 1 May, they will consider the report and see how they can contribute to the process. This report is not set in stone. I hope that it will develop and that there will be further contributions to it.

Eleanor Burnham siaradwyd yn Gymraeg t. 104

Eleanor Burnham spoken in Welsh p. 104

Sut y dylem ei ddefnyddio i annog pobl ifanc i beidio â bod yn ddiog?

How should we use it to encourage young people to stop being couch potatoes?

Rhodri Glyn Thomas siaradwyd yn Gymraeg t. 104

Rhodri Glyn Thomas spoken in Welsh p. 104

Mae’r adroddiad yn pwysleisio’r angen i addysgu pobl ifanc ynglŷn â manteision bywyd iach, a hefyd i sicrhau bod cyfleoedd yn yr ysgolion, drwy’r cwricwlwm cenedlaethol, i blant a phobl ifanc gymryd rhan mewn ymarfer corff. Wrth i’r Pwyllgor baratoi’r adroddiad, pwysleisiodd Owen John Thomas eto ei brofiad fel dirprwy brifathro mewn ysgol gynradd; nid yw’r cyfleusterau, yn aml, i’w cael yn y fath ysgolion i ganiatáu i blant gael y cyfleoedd gorau ar gyfer chwaraeon. Mae’n bwysig ein bod yn ystyried hynny hefyd. Yr wyf yn gobeithio y bydd cyfle i ddatblygu’r adroddiad hwn a chynnwys mwy o sylwadau ynddo. Mae manteision iechyd ac addysg iddo.

The report emphasises the need to educate young people about the benefits of a healthy lifestyle, and to ensure opportunities in schools, through the national curriculum, for children and young people to participate in physical activities. As the Committee prepared the report, Owen John Thomas again emphasised his experience as a deputy head in a primary school; the facilities often do not exist in such schools to allow children the best opportunities for sports. It is important that we consider that too. I hope that there will be an opportunity to develop this report and include more comments in it. There are health and education benefits to this.

John Griffiths spoken in English p. 104

John Griffiths siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 104

In respect of developing the report, it questions whether national teams’ successes feed into mass participation in sport. There seems to be much anecdotal evidence of this aspect. The success of the national side under Mark Hughes is getting the kids out, playing football on the streets and on the playing fields. Is there any further research on that matter?

Gyda golwg ar ddatblygu’r adroddiad, mae’r adroddiad yn gofyn a yw llwyddiannau timau cenedlaethol yn cyfrannu at gymryd rhan torfol mewn chwaraeon. Ymddengys bod llawer o dystiolaeth anecdotaidd am yr agwedd hon. Mae llwyddiant y tîm cenedlaethol dan Mark Hughes yn peri i blant ddod allan i chwarae pêl-droed ar y strydoedd a’r caeau chwarae. A oes unrhyw ymchwil bellach ar y mater hwnnw?

Rhodri Glyn Thomas spoken in Welsh and English p. 105

Rhodri Glyn Thomas siaradwyd yn Gymraeg ac yn Saesneg t. 105

Phil Williams did much research into the effect of the fortune of the national teams on the Welsh economy. If you have a chat with Phil later on, he will be able to explain it all to you. However, it is important in terms of the nation’s confidence. We all wholeheartedly support the Welsh team’s efforts under Mark Hughes’s leadership. Because of the impending election, I refused a ticket to Saturday’s game so that I could canvas in Carmarthen East and Dinefwr: but I will certainly be at the next game. We are all confident that the national team will succeed in its endeavours to reach Portugal, and some of us should, perhaps, be in Portugal to support the team when it arrives.

yn Saesneg Gwnaeth Phil Williams lawer o ymchwil i effaith hynt y timau cenedlaethol ar economi Cymru. Os cewch sgwrs â Phil yn ddiweddarach, bydd yn gallu egluro’r cwbl i chi. Fodd bynnag, mae’n bwysig o ran hyder y genedl. Yr ydym oll yn llwyr gefnogi ymdrechion tîm Cymru dan arweiniad Mark Hughes. Oherwydd yr etholiad sydd gerllaw, gwrthodais docyn i’r gêm ddydd Sadwrn er mwyn gallu canfasio yn Nwyrain Caerfyrddin a Dinefwr: ond byddaf yn sicr o fod yn y gêm nesaf. Yr ydym oll yn ffyddiog y bydd y tîm cenedlaethol yn llwyddo yn ei ymdrechion i gyrraedd Portiwgal, a dylai rhai ohonom, efallai, fod ym Mhortiwgal i gefnogi’r tîm pan fydd yn cyrraedd.

Soniodd Geraint Davies am y prosiect pwysig yn Rhondda Cynon Taf sydd yn sicrhau mynediad rhad ac am ddim i gyfleusterau chwaraeon i bobl ifanc yn ystod y gwyliau, ac mae awdurdodau lleol eraill yn awr yn dilyn yr un patrwm. Cysylltodd Geraint y prosiect hwn ag iechyd y cyhoedd yng nghwm Rhondda, sydd yn bwysig.

in Welsh Geraint Davies spoke of the important project in Rhondda Cynon Taf, which ensures free access to sports facilities for young people during the holidays, and other local authorities are now following its example. Geraint linked this project with the health of the public in the Rhondda valley, which is important.

Dechreuodd Glyn â geiriau caredig am fy nghadeiryddiaeth, a wnaeth imi boeni gan fod cic fel arfer y tu ôl i eiriau caredig Glyn, ond y Gweinidog a gafodd y cic yn hytrach na fi y tro hwn. Mae Glyn yn ymgorfforiad o bwysigrwydd ymarfer corff. Yr ydym i gyd yn llawen ei fod wedi gwella mor gyflym ar ôl ei driniaeth, ac mae hynny i’w briodoli, i raddau helaeth, i’r ffaith y bu’n cymryd rhan mewn chwaraeon ar hyd y blynyddoedd. Yr oedd yn chwarae rygbi yn y Canolbarth ac mae’r cleisiau a’r creithiau i’w gweld o hyd ar gyrff y bobl a oedd yn chwarae yn ei erbyn yn y dyddiau hynny. Fodd bynnag, credaf fod beirniadaeth Glyn o’r Gweinidog yn amhriodol heddiw. Beth bynnag fo’r gwahaniaethau rhyngof fi a’r Gweinidog o ran gwleidyddiaeth, mae wedi ymateb i adroddiadau a gwaith y Pwyllgor mewn ffordd gynhwysol, a gobeithio bod aelodau’r Pwyllgor yn cytuno ein bod wedi llwyddo i gael deialog effeithiol, greadigol ac adeiladol gyda’r Gweinidog. Mae eisoes wedi ymateb yn gadarnhaol i’n harolwg o’r Gymraeg, ac mae wedi rhoi pob arwydd o ymateb yn gadarnhaol i’r adroddiad hwn hefyd.

in Welsh Glyn Davies began with kind words about my chairship, which worried me because, usually, there is a kick behind Glyn’s kind words, but the Minister received the kick rather than me this time. Glyn embodies the importance of physical activity. We are all pleased that he has recovered so quickly after his treatment, and that is largely due to the fact that he has participated in sports for so many years. He used to play rugby in mid Wales and the bruises and scars can still be seen on the bodies of those who played against him over those years. However, I believe that Glyn’s criticism of the Minister was inappropriate today. Whatever the political differences between the Minister and I, she has responded to the Committee’s reports and work in an inclusive manner, and I hope that Committee members agree that we have succeeded in having an effective, creative and constructive dialogue with the Minister. She has already responded positively to our review of the Welsh language, and shows every sign of reacting positively to this report too.

Glyn Davies spoken in English p. 106

Glyn Davies siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 106

While it is good that the Committee works constructively—and we always have—is it not the job of opposition parties to oppose and, perhaps, criticise the Minister in the Chamber when you think it appropriate?

Er ei bod yn dda bod y Pwyllgor yn gweithio’n adeiladol—ac yr ydym yn gwneud hynny erioed—onid gwaith gwrthbleidiau yw gwrthwynebu ac, efallai, feirniadu’r Gweinidog yn y Siambr pan gredwch fod hynny’n briodol?

Rhodri Glyn Thomas siaradwyd yn Gymraeg t. 106

Rhodri Glyn Thomas spoken in Welsh p. 106

Mae’r pwynt wedi’i wneud ac mae wedi’i gofnodi. Fel Cadeirydd y Pwyllgor yr wyf yn ceisio bod yn gymodlon. Gwnaeth Brian Gibbons bwynt defnyddiol ynglŷn â gweithgareddau ymarferol a syml y gallwn i gyd eu gwneud, fel defnyddio grisiau. Gwnaeth Glyn bwynt pwysig ynglŷn â champfeydd, sydd yn bwysig, nid yn unig o ran ein hiechyd, ond efallai o ran helpu pobl i ganolbwyntio a sicrhau bod eu meddyliau yn effro i ymateb yn gyflym i ddatganiadau a thrafodaethau yn y Siambr. Soniodd Brian Hancock am amser i hyfforddi, ac mae adnoddau i hyfforddwyr hefyd yn bwysig. Yr oedd John yn ein hannog i gyd—ac ymunaf ag ef—i ganfasio yn y modd mwyaf brwdfrydig gallwn er mwyn sicrhau, beth bynnag fo’r canlyniadau, y byddwn i gyd yn heini ar ôl 1 Mai.

The point has been made and it is on record. As Chair of the Committee, I am trying to be conciliatory. Brian Gibbons made a useful point about the practical and simple activities that we can all do, such as using stairs. Glyn made an important point about gymnasiums, which are not only important in terms of health, but could also help with concentration and ensuring that people’s minds are alert to respond quickly to statements and discussions in the Chamber. Brian Hancock spoke of time for training, and training resources are also important. John encouraged us all—and I join him—to canvass in the most enthusiastic manner possible to ensure that, whatever the results, we are all fit after 1 May.

Cynnig NDM1456 Rhodri Glyn Thomas t. 106

Motion NDM1456 Rhodri Glyn Thomas p. 106

DerbyniwydAdopted O blaidFor 28 YmatalAbstain 0 Yn erbynAgainst 0

Derbyniwyd y cynnig.

Motion carried.

Sut y pleidleisiodd yr AelodauHow Members voted
O blaidFor (28)
  • Lorraine Barrett
  • Mick Bates
  • Eleanor Burnham
  • Rosemary Butler
  • Christine Chapman
  • Geraint Davies
  • Glyn Davies
  • Sue Essex
  • Delyth Evans
  • Michael German
  • William Graham
  • John Griffiths
  • Brian Gibbons
  • Alison Halford
  • Brian Hancock
  • Ann Jones
  • Gareth Jones
  • Huw Lewis
  • Val Lloyd
  • Tom Middlehurst
  • Lynne Neagle
  • Alun Pugh
  • Jenny Randerson
  • Janet Ryder
  • Karen Sinclair
  • Owen John Thomas
  • Rhodri Glyn Thomas
  • Phil Williams

John Marek The Deputy Presiding Officer spoken in English p. 107

John Marek Y Dirprwy Lywydd siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 107

That brings today’s proceedings to a close.

Daw hynny â chyfarfod heddiw i ben.

Daeth y cyfarfod i ben am 5.23 p.m.

The session ended at 5.23 p.m.