Cymraeg

Cynulliad Cenedlaethol CymruNational Assembly for Wales · Cyfarfod llawnPlenary sitting

Dydd Mercher 16 Chwefror 2000

Wednesday 16 February 2000

DechreuoddMet 14:00 · Daeth i benRose 17:37

Gweld y Cofnod (PDF)View the Record (PDF)

Heb ei wirio â llaw etoNot yet checked by hand

CynnwysContents

  1. 3Cwestiynau i’r Prif Ysgrifennydd ar Ddatblygu EconomaiddQuestions to the First Secretary on Economic Development
    1. 3Amcan 1 (Rôl Partneriaethau mewn Negodiadau)Objective 1 (Involvement of Partnerships in Negotiations)
    2. 4Hybu Cyfleoedd Gwaith i Ddinasyddion Anabl yng NghymruPromoting Employment Opportunities for Disabled Citizens in Wales
    3. 7Map Amcan 2 (De-ddwyrain Powys)Objective 2 Map (South-east Powys)
    4. 9Cyflenwyr Cymreig i Marks & SpencerWelsh Suppliers to Marks & Spencer
  2. 12Cwestiynau i’r Ysgrifennydd CyllidQuestions to the Finance Secretary
    1. 12Diwygio Fformwla BarnettReforming the Barnett Formula
    2. 14Gostwng Lefel Trethi CyngorReducing the Level of Council Taxes
    3. 17Diwygio Fformwla Barnett (Ymchwil)Revision of the Barnett Formula (Research)
    4. 18Y Swyddfa FfioeddFees Office
    5. 19Cyllid Llywodraeth LeolLocal Government Finance
  3. 19Datganiad ar Adroddiad WaterhouseStatement on the Waterhouse Report
  4. 43Cymeradwyo Canllawiau CynllunioApproval of Planning Guidance 1 bleidlais1 vote
  5. 47Dirprwyo Swyddogaethau’r Trydydd Gorchymyn Trosglwyddo SwyddogaethauDelegation of Functions of the Third Transfer of Functions Order 1 bleidlais1 vote
  6. 52Cynnig TrefniadolProcedural Motion 1 bleidlais1 vote
  7. 53Polisi Trafnidiaeth Integredig i GymruIntegrated Transport Policy for Wales 1 bleidlais1 vote

PleidleisiauVotes

PleidlaisVoteO blaidForYmatalAbstainYn erbynAgainstCanlyniadResult
Cymeradwyo Canllawiau CynllunioApproval of Planning Guidance
CynnigMotion2900DerbyniwydAdopted
Dirprwyo Swyddogaethau’r Trydydd Gorchymyn Trosglwyddo SwyddogaethauDelegation of Functions of the Third Transfer of Functions Order
CynnigMotion2900DerbyniwydAdopted
Cynnig TrefniadolProcedural Motion
Cynnig trefniadolProcedural motion3100DerbyniwydAdopted
Polisi Trafnidiaeth Integredig i GymruIntegrated Transport Policy for Wales
CynnigMotion3400DerbyniwydAdopted

TrafodionProceedings

Cyfarfu’r Cynulliad am 2 p.m. gyda’r Llywydd yn y Gadair.

The Assembly met at 2 p.m. with the Presiding Officer in the Chair.

Cwestiynau i’r Prif Ysgrifennydd ar Ddatblygu Economaidd

Questions to the First Secretary on Economic Development

Dafydd Elis-Thomas Y Llywydd siaradwyd yn Gymraeg t. 3

Dafydd Elis-Thomas The Presiding Officer spoken in Welsh p. 3

Galwaf ar yr Ysgrifennydd Datblygu Economaidd, sydd hefyd yn Brif Ysgrifennydd.

I call the Secretary for Economic Development, who is also the First Secretary.

Amcan 1 (Rôl Partneriaethau mewn Negodiadau)

Objective 1 (Involvement of Partnerships in Negotiations)

C1 Dafydd Wigley siaradwyd yn Gymraeg t. 3

Q1 Dafydd Wigley spoken in Welsh p. 3

A wnaiff Rhodri Morgan ddatganiad ynghylch rôl gyfredol partneriaethau gorllewin Cymru a’r Cymoedd yn negodiadau Amcan 1? (OAQ3591)

Will Rhodri Morgan make a statement on the current involvement of the west Wales and the Valleys partnerships in the Objective 1 negotiations? (OAQ3591)

Rhodri Morgan Y Prif Ysgrifennydd siaradwyd yn Gymraeg t. 3

Rhodri Morgan The First Secretary spoken in Welsh p. 3

Mae’r trafodaethau gyda’r Comisiwn Ewropeaidd yn digwydd ar ddwy lefel. Mae un tîm bach yn arwain trafodaethau manwl gyda’r Comisiwn ac mae grŵp ehangach o bartneriaethau yn delio â’r cwestiynau mawr, mwy strategol. Mae aelodau o bartneriaethau gorllewin Cymru a’r Cymoedd yn cymryd rhan ar y ddwy lefel.

The discussions with the European Commission are taking place on two levels. One small team leads detailed discussions with the Commission and a wider group of partnerships deals with the larger, more strategic questions. Members of the west Wales and Valleys partnerships take part on both levels.

Dafydd Wigley siaradwyd yn Gymraeg t. 3

Dafydd Wigley spoken in Welsh p. 3

Bydd Rhodri Morgan yn ymwybodol bod rhai o’r partneriaethau hyn wedi gwneud cwynion sylweddol, sydd yn mynd yn ôl cyn belled â mis Tachwedd diwethaf, eu bod yn cael eu hanwybyddu yn y broses o baratoi ar gyfer Amcan 1 yn dilyn diddymu’r tasglu Ewropeaidd. Pan sonia am gysylltu ac ymgynghori â’r partneriaethau, at bwy yn union y mae’n cyfeirio? A yw’r cyrff y mae’n cyfeirio atynt yn rhan ffurfiol o’r bartneriaeth honedig?

Rhodri Morgan will be aware that some of these partnerships have made significant complaints, which go back as far as last November, that they are being ignored in the process of preparing for Objective 1, following the dissolution of the European taskforce. When he refers to contacting and consulting with the partnerships, to whom is he referring? Are these bodies to which he refers a formal part of the alleged partnership?

Rhodri Morgan Y Prif Ysgrifennydd siaradwyd yn Gymraeg t. 3

Rhodri Morgan The First Secretary spoken in Welsh p. 3

Maent yn rhan o’r broses. Y swyddogion a’r ysgrifenyddion sydd yn dilyn y broses. Ychydig iawn sydd yn digwydd heb i’r cwestiwn neu’r datblygiad diweddaraf gael ei osod gerbron naill ai’r tîm bach sydd yn delio â’r cwestiynau manwl neu’r tîm ehangach sydd yn delio â chwestiynau strategol.

They are part of the process. It is the officials and secretaries who pursue the process. Little happens without the most recent question or development being presented either to the small team that deals with the detailed questions or to the larger team that deals with strategic questions.

Alun Cairns spoken in English p. 3

Alun Cairns siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 3

Following the comments made by the Welsh Conservative Party leader yesterday when he exposed the hotline to be somewhat of a failure, would the First Secretary acknowledge the views of the business community that the Government is dragging its feet on the implementation of Objective 1 because of a lack of match funds for the projects?

Yn dilyn y sylwadau a wnaethpwyd gan arweinydd Plaid Geidwadol Gymru ddoe pan ddatgelodd fod y llinell gymorth yn dipyn o fethiant, a fyddai’r Prif Ysgrifennydd yn cydnabod barn y gymuned fusnes bod y Llywodraeth yn llusgo’i thraed ar weithredu Amcan 1 oherwydd diffyg arian cyfatebol ar gyfer y prosiectau?

Rhodri Morgan The First Secretary spoken in English p. 4

Rhodri Morgan Y Prif Ysgrifennydd siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 4

No, that is not the case. I have already written to the leader of the Conservative group in the Assembly apologising for the failure of the out-of-hours answerphone service, which usually operates. Tragically, it did not operate when Nick Bourne tested it. I have apologised for that, and I hope that he has received my letter of apology by now. The failure of the answerphone service is not connected in any way with what Alun Cairns considers to be the lack of business representation. I explained the process of getting the private sector involved in local partnerships yesterday. Local authorities initiate those partnerships but once that initiative is taken and contact is made with the private sector in those local areas, it is vital that neither the council nor the private and voluntary sectors consider having a stake that is greater than one third. That is taking place but the private sector will come in one step behind the local authority.

Na, nid yw hynny’n wir. Yr wyf eisoes wedi ysgrifennu at y grŵp Ceidwadol yn y Cynulliad yn ymddiheuro bod y gwasanaeth peiriant ateb tu-allan-i-oriau-gwaith, sydd yn gweithio fel arfer, wedi methu. Yn anffodus, nid oedd yn gweithio pan roddodd Nick Bourne gynnig arno. Yr wyf wedi ymddiheuro am hynny, a gobeithiaf ei fod wedi derbyn fy llythyr ymddiheuro erbyn hyn. Nid oes a wnelo methiant y gwasanaeth peiriant ateb o gwbl â’r hyn y mae Alun Cairns yn ei ystyried yn ddiffyg cynrychiolaeth busnes. Eglurais y broses o gynnwys y sector preifat mewn partneriaethau lleol ddoe. Awdurdodau lleol sydd yn sefydlu’r partneriaethau hyn ond unwaith y mae’r cam cyntaf wedi’i gymryd ac y llunnir cyswllt â’r sector preifat yn yr ardaloedd lleol hynny, mae’n hanfodol nad yw’r cyngor na’r sectorau preifat a gwirfoddol yn ystyried bod â buddiant sydd yn fwy nag un rhan o dair. Mae hyn yn digwydd ond bydd y sector preifat yn dod i mewn un cam ar ôl yr awdurdod lleol.

Dafydd Elis-Thomas The Presiding Officer spoken in English p. 4

Dafydd Elis-Thomas Y Llywydd siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 4

Question 2 has been withdrawn.

Mae Cwestiwn 2 wedi ei dynnu’n ôl.

Hybu Cyfleoedd Gwaith i Ddinasyddion Anabl yng Nghymru

Promoting Employment Opportunities for Disabled Citizens in Wales

Q3 Richard Edwards spoken in English p. 4

C3 Richard Edwards siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 4

What plans does Rhodri Morgan have to promote employment opportunities for disabled citizens in Wales? (OAQ3566)

Pa gynlluniau sydd gan Rhodri Morgan i hybu cyfleoedd gwaith dinasyddion anabl Cymru? (OAQ3566)

Rhodri Morgan The First Secretary spoken in English p. 4

Rhodri Morgan Y Prif Ysgrifennydd siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 4

I take a great deal of interest in this topic. I recently attended a business breakfast with Centrica—I almost called it British Gas, which shows my age. That meeting was to help launch, jointly with the Department for Employment and Education, a special New Deal initiative on the employment of people with disabilities and care responsibilities in Centrica’s huge call centre in Cardiff. It was interesting to see how the New Deal can be used to promote suitable employment opportunities. Call centres and other telecommunication businesses can be adapted fairly simply so that people with a range of disabilities can be employed. It was also beneficial for the 2,000 people without disabilities working at Centrica in Cardiff to see those opportunities. That is the type of initiative that we need to promote wider opportunities. Having said that, responsibility for this matter remains primarily with the Department for Employment and Education in London. I am pleased that David Blunkett appointed, in consultation with Alun Michael, Dr Kevin Fitzpatrick as the Disability Rights Commissioner for Wales. He is one of 14 commissioners for the UK as a whole. That was also a major step forward. Promoting employment opportunities, although primarily not a matter for us, is one that we all support.

Mae gennyf lawer iawn o ddiddordeb yn y pwnc hwn. Yn ddiweddar euthum i frecwast busnes gyda Centrica—bu bron imi ei alw’n Nwy Prydain, sydd yn dangos fy oed. Cyfarfod oedd hwnnw i helpu i lansio, ar y cyd â’r Adran Addysg a Chyflogaeth, gynllun arbennig dan y Fargen Newydd ar gyflogi pobl ag anableddau a chyfrifoldebau gofalu yng nghanolfan alwadau enfawr Centrica yng Nghaerdydd. Diddorol oedd gweld sut y gellir defnyddio’r Fargen Newydd i hyrwyddo cyfleoedd gwaith addas. Gellir addasu canolfannau galwadau a busnesau telegyfathrebu eraill yn weddol hawdd fel y gellir cyflogi pobl ag amrywiaeth o anableddau. Yr oedd yn fuddiol hefyd i’r 2,000 o bobl heb anableddau sydd yn gweithio i Centrica yng Nghaerdydd weld y cyfleoedd hynny. Dyna’r math o gynllun sydd ei angen arnom i hybu cyfleoedd ehangach. Ar ôl dweud hynny, yr Adran Addysg a Chyflogaeth yn Llundain sydd yn dal yn bennaf gyfrifol am y mater hwn. Yr wyf yn falch i David Blunkett, ar ôl ymgynghori ag Alun Michael, benodi Dr Kevin Fitzpatrick yn Gomisiynydd Hawliau Anabledd dros Gymru. Un o 14 comisiynydd i’r DU gyfan ydyw. Yr oedd hynny hefyd yn gam mawr ymlaen. Mae hybu cyfleoedd cyflogi, er nad yw’n fater i ni yn bennaf, yn un y mae pawb ohonom yn ei gefnogi.

Richard Edwards spoken in English p. 5

Richard Edwards siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 5

Thank you, Rhodri, for undertaking those steps. As you know, the majority of Welsh businesses are micro and that is certainly the case in Pembrokeshire. The employment provisions of the Disability Discrimination Act 1995 do not apply to businesses employing less than 10 people. The Act’s scope in Wales is, therefore, minimal. What positive steps will, or can, you take to broaden the Act’s application so that disabled citizens in Wales can benefit from more job opportunities?

Diolch ichi, Rhodri, am gymryd y camau hynny. Fel y gwyddoch, micro-fusnesau yw mwyafrif busnesau Cymru ac mae hynny yn sicr yn wir yn Sir Benfro. Nid yw darpariaethau cyflogi Deddf Gwahaniaethu ar Sail Anabledd 1995 yn berthnasol i fusnesau sydd yn cyflogi llai na 10 o bobl. Ychydig iawn o le sydd, felly, i’r Ddeddf gael effaith yng Nghymru. Pa gamau cadarnhaol fyddwch chi, neu allwch chi, eu cymryd i ehangu cwmpas y Ddeddf fel y câi dinasyddion anabl yng Nghymru fwy o gyfleoedd gwaith?

Rhodri Morgan The First Secretary spoken in English p. 5

Rhodri Morgan Y Prif Ysgrifennydd siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 5

I am glad that you said ‘can’ as we cannot change that law to remove the exemption for firms employing 10 people or less. However, we can play a promoting role and ensure that employers throughout Wales realise that the employment of people with disabilities is good for employee morale and their human resources policies and that the employing company is not penalised or disadvantaged in any way. It also helps to introduce a large workforce to the problems encountered by people with disabilities. That is important. We support the DfEE on this. We must promote the rights of people with disabilities, so that potential employers realise that they are missing out if they do not employ the normal quota of people with disabilities. We must also support the DfEE, which has promoted widening employment opportunities for people with disabilities and has established their civil rights through the Disability Rights Commission.

Yr wyf yn falch ichi ddweud ‘allwch’ gan na allwn newid y gyfraith i ddileu’r esgusodiad i gwmnïau sydd yn cyflogi 10 neu lai o bobl. Fodd bynnag, gallwn gyflawni rôl hyrwyddo a sicrhau bod cyflogwyr ledled Cymru yn sylweddoli bod cyflogi pobl ag anableddau yn dda i forâl gweithwyr a’u polisïau adnoddau dynol ac nad yw’r cwmni cyflogi yn cael ei gosbi na’i roi dan anfantais mewn unrhyw ffordd. Mae hefyd yn help i gyflwyno i weithlu mawr y problemau a wynebir gan bobl ag anableddau. Mae hynny’n bwysig. Cefnogwn yr Adran Addysg a Chyflogaeth ar hyn. Rhaid inni hyrwyddo hawliau pobl ag anableddau, fel bod darpar gyflogwyr yn sylweddoli eu bod ar eu colled drwy beidio â chyflogi’r cwota arferol o bobl ag anableddau. Rhaid inni hefyd gefnogi’r Adran Addysg a Chyflogaeth, sydd wedi hyrwyddo ehangu’r cyfleoedd gwaith i bobl ag anableddau ac wedi sefydlu eu hawliau sifil drwy’r Comisiwn Hawliau Anabledd.

Owen John Thomas siaradwyd yn Gymraeg t. 6

Owen John Thomas spoken in Welsh p. 6

Mae llawer o bobl sydd yn colli gwaith oherwydd anabledd yn dioddef wedyn o iselder ysbryd. Pa drefniadau sydd gan y Llywodraeth i gefnogi cyrff gwirfoddol er mwyn iddynt gynorthwyo pobl felly i ailgyfeirio a dychwelyd i fyd gwaith?

Many people who lose work because of disability suffer afterwards from depression. What arrangements do the Government have to support voluntary bodies so that they can help such people to redirect and return to the world of work?

Rhodri Morgan Y Prif Ysgrifennydd siaradwyd yn Gymraeg t. 6

Rhodri Morgan The First Secretary spoken in Welsh p. 6

Mae’n bwysig cynorthwyo pobl drwy grwpiau gwirfoddol. Dylai’r grwpiau hynny gynnwys, yn bennaf, bobl ag anabledd a’r bobl sydd â’r cyfrifoldeb uniongyrchol—teuluol neu fel arall—dros helpu’r bobl hynny. Dyna’r bobl sydd yn deall y problemau. Hoffwn glywed gan Owen John Thomas neu eraill os oes ganddynt fanylion ynglŷn â grwpiau sydd wedi cael anhawster i sicrhau cymorth o’r sector cyhoeddus—o ran meddyginiaeth neu rywbeth arall—a fyddai’n cynorthwyo pobl ag anabledd i ddychwelyd i fyd gwaith. Gwelwn wedyn beth y gallwn ei wneud.

It is important to support people through voluntary groups. Those groups should mainly include people with disabilities and those that have direct responsibility—family or otherwise—for helping those people. They are the people who understand the problems. I would like to hear from Owen John Thomas or others if they have details of groups that have had difficulties in securing support from the public sector—in terms of medicine or anything else—that would help people with disabilities back into the world of work. We will see then what we can do.

David Melding spoken in English p. 6

David Melding siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 6

The unemployment rate has fallen again this month, and we seem to be entering an age where we will again have full employment. Will you take every active measure possible to ensure that disabled citizens are not excluded from this most worthy aspiration, and could we start with the Assembly and Assembly sponsored public bodies?

Mae’r gyfradd diweithdra wedi disgyn eto’r mis hwn, ac mae’n ymddangos ein bod yn cychwyn ar oes pan geir cyflogaeth lawn eto. A wnewch chi gymryd pob cam posibl i sicrhau nad yw dinasyddion anabl yn cael eu hallgáu o’r dyhead clodwiw hwn, a beth am ddechrau gyda’r Cynulliad a chyrff cyhoeddus a noddir gan y Cynulliad?

Rhodri Morgan The First Secretary spoken in English p. 6

Rhodri Morgan Y Prif Ysgrifennydd siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 6

I could not agree more. The number of jobs available in Wales has risen by some 20,000 during the past year, if I recall correctly. That improves the chances of those otherwise left at the back of the queue. People with certain disabilities fear the extent to which they are not only left at the back of the queue, but are left permanently at the back of the queue, regardless of its length. Physical disability is less of a problem now than when muscle power was an essential concomitant to your work chances. Now that using muscle power is no longer part of the typical working day, it is easier to cope with employment or workplace adaptation needs for people with many disabilities—not for all kinds, but for many. I hope that there will be less of a problem these days in ensuring that people with disabilities can play a full part in the rising employment opportunities available to the rest of the population.

Cytunaf yn llwyr. Mae nifer y swyddi sydd ar gael yng Nghymru wedi codi tua 20,000 dros y flwyddyn ddiwethaf, os cofiaf yn iawn. Mae hynny’n gwella cyfleoedd y rheini a gâi eu gadael ar gefn y gwt fel arall. Mae pobl â rhai anableddau yn ofni i’r graddau y cânt eu gadael nid yn unig ar gefn y gwt, ond ar gefn y gwt yn barhaol, waeth pa mor hir ydyw. Mae anabledd corfforol yn llai o broblem yn awr na phan oedd bôn braich yn elfen hanfodol yn eich gobaith o gael gwaith. Gan nad yw bôn braich mwyach yn rhan o’r diwrnod gwaith arferol, mae’n haws ymdopi â’r angen i addasu cyflogaeth neu weithle ar gyfer pobl â llu o anableddau—nid i bob math, ond i lawer. Gobeithiaf y bydd llai o broblem y dyddiau hyn i sicrhau y gall pobl ag anableddau chwarae rhan lawn yn y cyfleoedd gwaith cynyddol sydd ar gael i weddill y boblogaeth.

Map Amcan 2 (De-ddwyrain Powys)

Objective 2 Map (South-east Powys)

Q4 Kirsty Williams spoken in English p. 7

C4 Kirsty Williams siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 7

Will Rhodri Morgan revise his recommendation to exclude south-east Powys from the Objective 2 map? (OAQ3534)

A wnaiff Rhodri Morgan adolygu’i argymhelliad i eithrio de-ddwyrain Powys o fap Amcan 2? (OAQ3534)

Rhodri Morgan The First Secretary spoken in English p. 7

Rhodri Morgan Y Prif Ysgrifennydd siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 7

No. As I explained to you in my letter of 29 November, the coverage in Powys focused on areas that were less prosperous as shown by economic activity, employment and other social indicators. We were restricted in Wales to a total population limit of 272,200 for the Objective 2 map coverage. As a result, every theoretically justifiable claim could not be met. South-east Powys will be eligible for transitional funding from its previous Objective 5b status, as well as funding under the Objective 3 programme. The European Commission has now approved the UK map in principle, and it is time to take the programme forward to maximise the benefit to Wales without further delay.

Na wnaf. Fel yr eglurais wrthych yn fy llythyr 29 Tachwedd, canolbwyntiai’r map ym Mhowys ar ardaloedd llai llewyrchus, fel y dangosir gan weithgaredd economaidd, cyflogaeth a dangosyddion cymdeithasol eraill. Cyfyngwyd ni yng Nghymru i uchafswm poblogaeth o 272,200 ar gyfer map Amcan 2. O ganlyniad, nid oedd modd bodloni pob hawl y gellid ei gyfiawnhau mewn theori. Bydd de-ddwyrain Powys yn gymwys i gael cyllid trosiannol o’i statws Amcan 5b blaenorol, yn ogystal â chyllid dan raglen Amcan 3. Mae’r Comisiwn Ewropeaidd wedi cymeradwyo map y DU mewn egwyddor erbyn hyn, ac mae’n bryd bwrw ymlaen â’r rhaglen i sicrhau’r budd mwyaf posibl i Gymru heb oedi pellach.

Kirsty Williams spoken in English p. 7

Kirsty Williams siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 7

Do you not agree that communities like Talgarth deserve Objective 2 status? It is an area of high unemployment, which has experienced a number of job losses recently and relies heavily on a hard-pressed agricultural sector. Are you also aware of the exciting developments that are happening at Talgarth, and the work in progress at the newly purchased hospital? Those are the kind of projects that could have greatly benefited from Objective 2 money, but whose future will now be endangered because of your inability or lack of willingness to revise the map.

Onid ydych chi’n cytuno bod cymunedau fel Talgarth yn haeddu statws Amcan 2? Mae’n ardal o ddiweithdra uchel, sydd wedi wynebu nifer o golledion swyddi yn ddiweddar ac mae’n dibynnu’n drwm ar sector amaethyddol sydd dan bwysau mawr. A ydych chi hefyd yn ymwybodol o’r datblygiadau cyffrous sydd yn digwydd yn Nhalgarth, a’r gwaith sydd ar y gweill ar yr ysbyty sydd newydd ei brynu? Dyna’r math o brosiectau a fyddai wedi elwa’n fawr o arian Amcan 2, ond y peryglir eu dyfodol bellach oherwydd eich anallu neu’ch diffyg parodrwydd i adolygu’r map.

Rhodri Morgan The First Secretary spoken in English p. 7

Rhodri Morgan Y Prif Ysgrifennydd siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 7

Kirsty cannot have it both ways. She is either saying that Talgarth is not a land flowing with milk and honey or she is saying that it is—I am not sure. If she has a specific, exciting project in Talgarth in mind that may help to release the economic potential of that area, there is every reason to suppose that that would be a prime candidate for transitional funding under Objective 2. If she is arguing that Talgarth is one of the poorest areas in Powys and is poorer than those that have been included in the Objective 2 map, I would like to hear from her. If she is suggesting that Talgarth, or any other part of south-east Powys should be included, she must tell me which other areas on the Objective 2 map should be removed.

Ni all Kirsty ei chael hi bob ffordd. Mae hi un ai’n dweud nad yw Talgarth yn wlad sydd yn llifeirio o laeth a mêl neu mae’n dweud ei bod—nid wyf yn siŵr. Os oes ganddi brosiect penodol, cyffrous mewn golwg yn Nhalgarth a allai helpu i ryddhau potensial economaidd yr ardal, mae pob rheswm i dybio y byddai’n ymgeisydd da iawn am gyllid trosiannol dan Amcan 2. Os yw hi’n dadlau bod Talgarth yn un o ardaloedd tlotaf Powys a’i bod yn dlotach na’r rheini sydd wedi eu cynnwys ar fap Amcan 2, hoffwn glywed ganddi. Os yw’n awgrymu y dylai Talgarth, neu unrhyw ran arall o dde-ddwyrain Powys gael ei chynnwys, rhaid iddi ddweud wrthyf pa ardal eraill ar fap Amcan 2 y dylid eu tynnu oddi arno.

Nick Bourne spoken in English p. 8

Nick Bourne siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 8

As well as the importance of fighting for Objective 2 status for south-east Powys and Barry, which, listening to the First Secretary may already be a lost battle, would he agree that implementation of Objectives 1 and 2 and the provision of information is vital? I accept that you have sent me a response that I have not yet received on the mystery phonecall—it is no doubt in the system. In response to my in-hours phone-call to the hotline asking for further information on implementation, I received the single programming document. It has 242 pages and was rejected as inept and lacking in vision. If this is going out to businesses and to community leaders, is not the real mystery how will it help them apply for funds? The answer is that it will not. How will we put that right?

Yn ogystal â phwysigrwydd ymladd am statws Amcan 2 i dde-ddwyrain Powys a’r Barri, sydd, o wrando ar y Prif Ysgrifennydd yn frwydr wedi ei cholli’n barod efallai, a fyddai’n cytuno bod rhoi Amcanion 1 a 2 ar waith a darparu gwybodaeth yn hanfodol bwysig? Yr wyf yn derbyn ichi anfon ymateb ataf ar yr alwad ffôn ddirgel er nad wyf wedi ei dderbyn eto—yn y system mae ef, mae’n siŵr. Mewn ymateb i’m galwad ffôn o-fewn-oriau-gwaith i’r llinell gymorth yn gofyn am wybodaeth bellach am weithredu, derbyniais y ddogfen raglennu sengl. Ceir ynddi 242 o dudalennau ac fe’i gwrthodwyd fel dogfen anfedrus heb weledigaeth ynddi. Os yw hon yn mynd allan i fusnesau ac arweinwyr cymunedau, onid y gwir ddirgelwch yw sut y bydd yn eu helpu i ymgeisio am gyllid? Yr ateb yw na fydd. Sut byddwn ni’n unioni hynny?

Rhodri Morgan The First Secretary spoken in English p. 8

Rhodri Morgan Y Prif Ysgrifennydd siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 8

I cannot anticipate whether he will be happy with my explanation on that point, which is also covered in my letter to him. Regarding the supply of documentation—for which he may or may not have asked—there are only two documents available at the moment. One is the information leaflet, of which we have printed 100,000 copies, and the other is the single programming document. That document has not been rejected—that would be too strong a word to use—but the initial response of the Commission has been to make multifarious criticisms of it. This is not any different to what you would expect at this stage of a five-month-long negotiating process. There is no alternative at present to those two documents. He may believe that we should produce another document halfway through. He would, of course, have received a different response to an individual query about a specific project. As he was asking a political question, those are the only two documents that are available to politicians who are not referring to a particular project.

Ni allaf ragweld a fydd yn hapus â’m hesboniad ar y pwynt hwnnw, yr ymdrinnir ag ef hefyd yn fy llythyr ato. O ran cyflenwi dogfennau—efallai iddo ofyn am hynny ac efallai ddim—nid oes ond dwy ddogfen ar gael ar hyn o bryd. Un yw’r daflen wybodaeth, yr argraffwyd 100,000 copi ohoni, a’r llall yw’r ddogfen raglennu sengl. Nid yw’r ddogfen honno wedi ei gwrthod—byddai hynny’n air rhy gryf i’w ddefnyddio—ond ymateb cyntaf y Comisiwn oedd ei beirniadu mewn sawl dull a modd. Nid yw hynny’n wahanol i’r hyn y byddech yn ei ddisgwyl ar y cam hwn mewn proses drafod bum mis o hyd. Nid oes dewis arall ar wahân i’r ddwy ddogfen yma ar hyn o bryd. Efallai ei fod yn credu y dylem gynhyrchu dogfen arall hanner ffordd drwy’r broses. Wrth gwrs, byddai wedi derbyn ymateb gwahanol i gwestiwn unigol am brosiect penodol. Gan ei fod yn gofyn cwestiwn gwleidyddol, y rhain yw’r unig ddwy ddogfen sydd ar gael i wleidyddion nad ydynt yn cyfeirio at brosiect penodol.

Cyflenwyr Cymreig i Marks & Spencer

Welsh Suppliers to Marks & Spencer

Q5 Jane Davidson spoken in English p. 9

C5 Jane Davidson siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 9

Can Rhodri Morgan give details of how the Assembly is able to support the Welsh companies that supply Marks & Spencer? (OAQ3585)

A all Rhodri Morgan roi manylion sut y gall y Cynulliad gefnogi’r cwmnïau Cymreig hynny sydd yn cyflenwi Marks & Spencer? (OAQ3585)

Rhodri Morgan The First Secretary spoken in English p. 9

Rhodri Morgan Y Prif Ysgrifennydd siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 9

I assume, Jane, that you refer to companies on the clothing side of the Marks & Spencer supply chain rather than food suppliers or others. I also assume that you want me to cover companies like Bairdwear that are in difficulties because of the loss of Marks & Spencer contracts, as well as those that might wish to take over some of those contracts if they are lucky enough to get on the Marks & Spencer supply-list.

Yr wyf yn tybio, Jane, eich bod yn cyfeirio at gwmnïau ar ochr ddillad cadwyn gyflenwi Marks & Spencer yn hytrach na chyflenwyr bwyd nac eraill. Tybiaf hefyd eich bod am imi ymdrin â chwmnïau fel Bairdwear sydd yn cael anawsterau am iddynt golli contractau Marks & Spencer, yn ogystal â’r rheini a fyddai am ymgymryd â rhai o’r contractau dan sylw pe baent yn ddigon lwcus i gael eu derbyn ar restr gyflenwi Marks & Spencer.

As regards Bairdwear’s difficulties, which I believe will end up in a court of law, we are trying to assist employees in all the usual ways in which we assist major redundancies. Redundancy notices have been issued by Bairdwear. I believe that they expire on 20 April and that up to 1,000 people could lose their jobs, although we believe that a small number will be saved. The situation for at least three-quarters of those jobs, however, does not look optimistic. The training and enterprise councils and the Department for Education and Employment will be involved in the redundancies on a massive scale. These will be in most of south Wales where there are Bairdwear factories at present, in some two months’ time.

O ran anawsterau Bairdwear, y credaf yr ânt i lys barn yn y pen draw, yr ydym yn ceisio helpu’r gweithwyr yn y ffyrdd arferol fel a wnawn i gynorthwyo pan geir nifer fawr o ddiswyddiadau. Mae rhybuddion diswyddo wedi eu rhoi gan Bairdwear. Credaf eu bod yn dod i ben ar 20 Ebrill ac y gallai hyd at 1,000 o bobl golli eu swyddi, er ein bod yn credu y caiff nifer fach eu harbed. Nid yw’r sefyllfa i dri chwarter o leiaf o’r swyddi hynny, fodd bynnag, yn edrych yn obeithiol. Bydd y cynghorau hyfforddi a menter a’r Adran Addysg a Chyflogaeth yn ymdrin â’r diswyddiadau ar raddfa enfawr. Digwydd hyn ar draws de Cymru lle mae yna ffatrïoedd Bairdwear ar hyn o bryd, ymhen rhyw ddeufis.

As for those companies that might be—or in one case, is—interested in taking over some of the Marks & Spencer contracts, regional selective assistance is available, as is training assistance by the TECs. Assistance is also available from the WDA. It wants to locate the business close to where the existing employees live, but possibly not on the Bairdwear site. A wide range of assistance is available and we encourage firms in the clothing industry, especially those with skills in lingerie—where we are losing jobs with Bairdwear—to make themselves known to the official side of the Assembly’s industry department.

O ran y cwmnïau hynny a foi—neu mewn un achos, sydd—â diddordeb mewn ymgymryd â rhai o gontractau Marks & Spencer, mae cymorth dethol rhanbarthol ar gael, ynghyd â chymorth hyfforddi gan y CHMau. Mae cymorth ar gael hefyd gan Awdurdod Datblygu Cymru. Mae am leoli’r busnes yn agos at y fan lle mae’r gweithwyr presennol yn byw, ond o bosibl nid ar safle Bairdwear. Mae ystod eang o gymorth ar gael ac anogwn gwmnïau yn y diwydiant dillad, yn enwedig y rheini sydd â sgiliau ym maes dillad isaf—lle’r ydym yn colli swyddi gyda Bairdwear—i roi gwybod amdanynt eu hunain i ochr swyddogol adran diwydiant y Cynulliad.

Jane Davidson spoken in English p. 10

Jane Davidson siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 10

Do you share the concern of Assembly Members who raised this issue that companies like Bairdwear were restricted in their contract to work only for Marks & Spencer? They have done so for 30 years, operating in deprived areas of Wales and now, through no fault of their own, are losing out. Therefore, are you, as First Secretary, prepared to encourage the Assembly to support the campaign being run by the General and Municipal Boilermakers Union on behalf of workers in those companies? The campaign aims to encourage the public to make their views known to Marks & Spencer that we want to keep jobs for firms like theirs in Britain and particularly in Wales.

Ydych chi’n rhannu pryder Aelodau’r Cynulliad a gododd y mater hwn fod cwmnïau fel Bairdwear wedi eu cyfyngu yn eu contract i weithio i Marks & Spencer yn unig? Gwnaethant hynny am 30 mlynedd, gan weithredu mewn ardaloedd difreintiedig o Gymru ac yn awr, heb fod unrhyw fai arnynt hwy, maent ar eu colled. A ydych chi, felly, fel Prif Ysgrifennydd yn barod i annog y Cynulliad i gefnogi’r ymgyrch sydd yn cael ei chynnal gan Undeb y Gwneuthurwyr Bwyleri Bwrdeistrefol a Chyffredinol ar ran gweithwyr yn y cwmnïau hynny? Nod yr ymgyrch yw annog y cyhoedd i leisio eu barn wrth Marks & Spencer ein bod am gadw swyddi cwmnïau fel eu rhai hwy ym Mhrydain ac yng Nghymru yn arbennig.

Rhodri Morgan The First Secretary spoken in English p. 10

Rhodri Morgan Y Prif Ysgrifennydd siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 10

I am grateful for that further definition of the question. I met senior representatives of the GMB in south Wales on Monday to discuss the looming Bairdwear crisis. It seems that none of the big three Marks & Spencer suppliers, Coats Viyella, Dewhirst and one other—the name of which I cannot remember—are interested in taking over the Bairdwear business as we had hoped at one time. The GMB is running an effective campaign, but I do not know whether or not it will change Marks & Spencer’s mind. There have been senior management changes in Marks & Spencer and I hope to be meeting representatives from the company soon to discuss its side of the issue.

Yr wyf yn ddiolchgar am y diffiniad pellach ar y cwestiwn. Cyfarfûm ag uwch gynrychiolwyr o’r Undeb yn ne Cymru ddydd Llun i drafod yr argyfwng sydd ar warthaf Bairdwear. Mae’n ymddangos nad oes yr un o dri chyflenwr mawr Marks & Spencer, Coats Viyella, Dewhirst ac un arall—na allaf gofio ei enw—â diddordeb mewn ymgymryd â busnes Bairdwear fel y gobeithiem ar un adeg. Mae’r Undeb yn cynnal ymgyrch effeithiol, ond ni wn a wnaiff newid meddwl Marks & Spencer ai peidio. Cafwyd newidiadau ymysg uwch reolwyr Marks & Spencer a gobeithiaf gwrdd â chynrychiolwyr o’r cwmni yn fuan i drafod eu hochr hwy o hyn.

Brian Hancock spoken in English p. 10

Brian Hancock siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 10

You mentioned the five factories that will close in April, with the loss of 1,000 jobs. Do you share my concern that, although the Objective 1 single programming document is expected to be approved by the European Commission in April, it will take time for this strategy to be developed to enable workers to get assistance and secure their skills—so that they are not lost—and to ensure that their labour in the market and in the communities is not lost?

Sonioch am y pum ffatri a fydd yn cau fis Ebrill, gan golli 1,000 o swyddi. Ydych chi’n rhannu fy mhryder i y bydd, er y disgwylir i ddogfen raglennu sengl Amcan 1 gael ei chymeradwyo gan y Comisiwn Ewropeaidd ym mis Ebrill, yn cymryd amser i’r strategaeth hon gael ei datblygu i alluogi gweithwyr i gael cymorth a diogelu eu sgiliau—fel na chollir mohonynt—ac i sicrhau na chollir eu llafur o’r farchnad ac o’r cymunedau?

Rhodri Morgan The First Secretary spoken in English p. 10

Rhodri Morgan Y Prif Ysgrifennydd siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 10

Yes, I share those objectives completely. Sewing skills are highly specialised skills, particularly in the area of lingerie. That is one of the reasons why the lingerie industry has not declined in the way that the rest of the clothing industry in the UK has over the last 25 years. It has done well to hold the fort. Those skills, if they were lost, would be difficult to replace. When Objective 1 funding becomes available in April, or thereabouts, it is likely that all manner of assistance, via Objective 1, could be used to upgrade those skills where necessary, and to encourage people to form their own co-operatives or companies to try to utilise those skills. There is probably a niche market somewhere even if it is not with Marks & Spencer. If the skills are there and a method can be found of obtaining funding from the new development fund bank, via Objective 1, then there is a chance of saving the jobs concerned and utilising those special skills. It would also save the wealth creation process that is available to us in the Objective 1 areas, which includes the areas where there are currently Bairdwear factories.

Ydwyf, yr wyf yn rhannu’r amcanion hynny yn llwyr. Mae sgiliau gwnïo yn sgiliau arbenigol iawn, yn enwedig ar ddillad isaf. Dyna un o’r rhesymau pam nad yw’r diwydiant dillad isaf wedi dirywio yn yr un ffordd â gweddill y diwydiant dillad yn y DU dros y 25 mlynedd diwethaf. Gwnaeth yn dda i gadw ei le. Byddai’r sgiliau hyn, pe caent eu colli, yn anodd i’w cael eto. Pan ddaw cyllid Amcan 1 ar gael tua mis Ebrill, yn fras, mae’n debyg y gellid defnyddio pob math o gymorth, drwy Amcan 1, i wella’r sgiliau hynny lle bo angen, ac annog pobl i ffurfio eu mentrau cydweithredol neu eu cwmnïau eu hunain i geisio defnyddio’r sgiliau hynny. Mae’n debyg bod marchnad arbenigol yn rhywle hyd yn oed os nad Marks & Spencer yw honno. Os yw’r sgiliau yno ac y gellir canfod ffordd o gael cyllid oddi wrth fanc newydd y gronfa ddatblygu, drwy Amcan 1, yna mae gobaith o arbed y swyddi dan sylw a defnyddio’r sgiliau arbennig hyn. Byddai hefyd yn achub y broses creu cyfoeth sydd ar gael inni mewn ardaloedd Amcan 1, sydd yn cynnwys yr ardaloedd lle mae ffatrïoedd Bairdwear ar hyn o bryd.

Carwyn Jones spoken in English p. 11

Carwyn Jones siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 11

There is a Bairdwear factory in my constituency at Pyle. I have written to Bairdwear on two occasions asking for a meeting to discuss the situation. I have yet to receive any acknowledgement or reply. The first letter was sent at the beginning of December. Would you join me in stressing to Bairdwear how important it is to keep elected representatives informed of what is going on and also to stress that it should at least give elective representatives the courtesy of a reply?

Mae ffatri Bairdwear yn fy etholaeth i yn y Pîl. Ysgrifennais at Bairdwear ar ddau achlysur yn gofyn am gyfarfod i drafod y sefyllfa. Nid wyf eto wedi derbyn cydnabyddiaeth nac ateb. Anfonwyd y llythyr cyntaf ddechrau Rhagfyr. A wnewch chi ymuno â mi i bwysleisio wrth Bairdwear mor bwysig yw hi bod cynrychiolwyr etholedig yn cael gwybod beth sydd yn digwydd a hefyd bwysleisio y dylid o leiaf fod yn ddigon cwrtais i ymateb i gynrychiolwyr etholedig?

Rhodri Morgan The First Secretary spoken in English p. 11

Rhodri Morgan Y Prif Ysgrifennydd siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 11

I would commend that course to Bairdwear. The company was initially communicative. Then it had a switch of strategy in favour of legal redress. It did not have a contract with Marks & Spencer. It may have been advised that it could argue that Marks & Spencer had let it down. I do not want to argue the principles of a legal case. I am not a lawyer and you are, Carwyn. You understand these matters better than I do. It is important, however, that Bairdwear, even if it wishes to take the legal route and omit political campaigning, should have the courtesy of treating Assembly Members as democratically elected representatives of its employees. The same courtesy should be applied to the general community affected by a factory closure.

Byddwn yn argymell y cwrs hwnnw i Bairdwear. Ar y dechrau yr oedd y cwmni yn barod i gyfathrebu. Yna newidiodd ei strategaeth o blaid iawn cyfreithiol. Nid oedd ganddo gontract gyda Marks & Spencer. Efallai iddo gael cyngor y gallai ddadlau bod Marks & Spencer wedi ei adael i lawr. Nid wyf am ddadlau egwyddorion achos cyfreithiol. Nid cyfreithiwr mohonof fel yr ydych chi, Carwyn. Yr ydych yn deall y materion hyn yn well na mi. Mae’n bwysig, fodd bynnag, bod Bairdwear, hyd yn oed os ydyw am ddilyn y llwybr cyfreithiol ac ymwrthod ag ymgyrchu gwleidyddol, â’r cwrteisi i drin Aelodau’r Cynulliad fel cynrychiolwyr a etholwyd yn ddemocrataidd dros ei weithwyr. Dylid arddel yr un cwrteisi tuag at y gymuned gyffredinol yr effeithir arni drwy gau ffatri.

Peter Rogers spoken in English p. 12

Peter Rogers siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 12

I apologise that this question is about Welsh produce. It concerns the forestry and fencing stakes. We have three large contracts in north Wales at the moment. We have 22 miles of roadway. We are importing fencing—

Ymddiheuraf fod y cwestiwn hwn am gynnyrch o Gymru. Mae’n ymwneud â choedwigaeth a pholion ffensio. Mae gennym dri chontract mawr yng ngogledd Cymru ar hyn o bryd. Mae gennym 22 milltir o ffyrdd. Yr ydym yn mewnforio ffensys—

Dafydd Elis-Thomas The Presiding Officer spoken in English p. 12

Dafydd Elis-Thomas Y Llywydd siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 12

Order. Although I am an occasional visitor to Culverhouse Cross, I have never discovered fencing posts there. This question is about Marks & Spencer.

Trefn. Er fy mod yn ymwelydd achlysurol â Chroes Cwrlwys, nid wyf erioed wedi darganfod polion ffensio yno. Cwestiwn am Marks & Spencer yw hwn.

Peter Rogers spoken in English p. 12

Peter Rogers siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 12

I have apologised for that. I wanted to make absolutely clear that we—

Yr wyf wedi ymddiheuro am hynny. Yr oeddwn am ei gwneud yn gwbl glir ein bod—

Dafydd Elis-Thomas The Presiding Officer spoken in English p. 12

Dafydd Elis-Thomas Y Llywydd siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 12

Order. I suggest that you find another opportunity during our many procedures to bring up the issue of forestry. You have my sympathy as there are many forests near where I live. I am sure that you will find other means of presenting this—

Trefn. Awgrymaf eich bod yn canfod cyfle arall yn ystod ein gweithdrefnau lluosog i godi pwnc coedwigaeth. Cydymdeimlaf â chi gan fod llawer o goedwigoedd yn agos at y fan lle’r wyf fi’n byw. Yr wyf yn siŵr y gwnewch chi ganfod ffordd arall o gyflwyno hyn—

Peter Rogers spoken in English p. 12

Peter Rogers siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 12

I realise that it is an important—

Sylweddolaf ei fod yn bwysig—

Dafydd Elis-Thomas The Presiding Officer spoken in English p. 12

Dafydd Elis-Thomas Y Llywydd siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 12

Order. This is not an appropriate use of question time. If Members have visitors in the gallery, then they should find a way of ensuring that they raise issues in another way.

Trefn. Nid yw hyn yn ddefnydd priodol o’r sesiwn cwestiynau. Os oes gan Aelodau ymwelwyr yn yr oriel, yna dylent ganfod ffordd o sicrhau eu bod yn codi materion mewn ffordd arall.

Cwestiynau i’r Ysgrifennydd Cyllid

Questions to the Finance Secretary

Diwygio Fformwla Barnett

Reforming the Barnett Formula

Q1 Michael German spoken in English p. 12

C1 Michael German siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 12

What discussions has the Finance Secretary recently had regarding the possibility of reforming the Barnett formula or replacing it with a new financing formula? (OAQ3580)

Pa drafodaethau a gafodd yr Ysgrifennydd Cyllid yn ddiweddar ynghylch posibilrwydd diwygio Fformwla Barnett neu osod fformwla cyllido newydd yn ei le? (OAQ3580)

Edwina Hart The Finance Secretary spoken in English p. 12

Edwina Hart Yr Ysgrifennydd Cyllid siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 12

I assume you are referring to official discussions at Treasury level. I have had no official discussions on this matter.

Tybiaf eich bod yn cyfeirio at drafodaethau swyddogol ar lefel y Trysorlys. Nid wyf wedi cael unrhyw drafodaethau swyddogol ar y mater hwn.

Michael German spoken in English p. 13

Michael German siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 13

Given that the Treasury Committee that examined the Barnett formula in its conclusion called for the work to be updated, is it not the case that we should be moving forward in discussion with the Treasury? One of the conclusions of the Treasury’s earlier work was that we need to work towards a needs based formula. Given that Wales would have nothing to fear from a needs based formula, is it not time to put pressure on the Treasury and update previous work on this formula which is sadly lacking and needed in Wales?

O gofio bod Pwyllgor y Trysorlys a archwiliodd fformwla Barnett wedi galw yn ei gasgliadau am i’r gwaith gael ei ddiweddaru, onid yw hi’n wir y dylem fod yn symud ymlaen drwy trafod â’r Trysorlys? Un o gasgliadau gwaith cynharach y Trysorlys oedd bod angen inni weithio tuag at fformwla sydd yn seiliedig ar anghenion. O gofio na fyddai gan Gymru ddim i’w ofni gan fformwla seiliedig ar anghenion, onid yw hi’n bryd rhoi pwysau ar y Trysorlys a diweddaru’r gwaith blaenorol ar y fformwla hon sydd yn ddiffygiol iawn ac y mae ei hangen yng Nghymru?

Edwina Hart spoken in English p. 13

Edwina Hart siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 13

I have not had official discussions. However, there are ongoing informal discussions on this and other areas and I am looking at the nature of the Barnett formula. It is appropriate that I keep this at the forefront of my mind at all times. I monitor it closely and I am aware of Assembly Members’ concerns on the Barnett formula. I am bearing this in mind for future discussions. I am not certain at this stage whether I want to undertake all the work necessary for a different mechanism.

Nid wyf wedi cael trafodaethau ffurfiol. Fodd bynnag, mae trafodaethau anffurfiol parhaus ar hyn a meysydd eraill ac yr wyf yn edrych ar natur fformwla Barnett. Mae’n briodol fy mod yn cadw hyn ar flaen fy meddwl bob amser. Yr wyf yn ei fonitro’n agos ac yr wyf yn ymwybodol o bryderon Aelodau’r Cynulliad am fformwla Barnett. Yr wyf yn ei gadw mewn cof ar gyfer trafodaethau i’r dyfodol. Nid wyf yn sicr ar hyn o bryd a wyf am ymgymryd â holl waith sydd ei angen am fecanwaith gwahanol.

Dafydd Wigley spoken in English p. 13

Dafydd Wigley siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 13

I urge the Finance Secretary to get the mechanism moving to ensure that the homework is done. When she is clear about the budgetary process she can get to grips with the Treasury on this central issue. Does she understand that studies that have been undertaken show that, on a needs basis, Wales requires around 9 per cent of additional spending compared to England on those matters that fall within the block? Yet, we are only getting 6 per cent compared to 22 per cent over the average for Scotland. Wales’s position has deteriorated since 1978. The European Union has recognised our increased needs. The Barnett formula must be adjusted to do the same.

Anogaf yr Ysgrifennydd Cyllid i symud y mecanwaith er mwyn sicrhau y gwneir y gwaith cartref. Pan fydd hi’n glir ynglŷn â’r broses gyllidebol gall fynd i’r afael â’r Trysorlys ar y mater canolog hwn. A yw hi’n deall bod yr astudiaethau a wnaethpwyd yn dangos, ar sail anghenion, fod ar Gymru angen tua 9 y cant o wariant ychwanegol o’i chymharu â Lloegr ar y materion hynny sydd yn dod oddi mewn i’r bloc? Eto i gyd, nid ydym ond yn cael 6 y cant o’i gymharu â 22 y cant uwchlaw’r cyfartaledd i’r Alban. Mae sefyllfa Cymru wedi dirywio er 1978. Mae’r Undeb Ewropeaidd wedi cydnabod bod ein hanghenion wedi cynyddu. Rhaid addasu fformwla Barnett i wneud yr un peth.

Edwina Hart spoken in English p. 13

Edwina Hart siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 13

I am aware of the work that has been undertaken to look at the effect of the Barnett formula on Wales. I am also aware of Scotland’s position. I am engaged in discussions on the comprehensive spending review and structural funds, the latter being close to all of our hearts. I am concentrating on those areas. I will note your comments and try to respond positively to these issues in the next few weeks.

Yr wyf yn ymwybodol o’r gwaith a wnaethpwyd i edrych ar effaith fformwla Barnett ar Gymru. Yr wyf hefyd yn ymwybodol o sefyllfa’r Alban. Yr wyf â rhan mewn trafodaethau ar yr adolygiad cynhwysfawr o wariant a’r cronfeydd strwythurol, gyda’r olaf yn agos at galonnau pawb ohonom. Yr wyf yn canolbwyntio ar y meysydd hynny. Nodaf eich sylwadau a cheisiaf ymateb yn gadarnhaol i’r materion hyn dros yr wythnosau nesaf.

Glyn Davies spoken in English p. 14

Glyn Davies siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 14

I have a note of caution in the form of a question. Does the Finance Secretary agree that we have to be careful whenever we discuss changes to the Barnett formula? The advantage of that formula at the moment is that it works automatically and prevents the grasping hands of the Treasury from having an effect on the money that Wales receives. I have heard numerous reports that many in the Treasury feel that Wales gets more than its fair share of money already. My note of caution is for you to be careful that you do not make things worse rather than better.

Mae gennyf nodyn o rybudd ar ffurf cwestiwn. A yw’r Ysgrifennydd Cyllid yn cytuno bod yn rhaid inni fod yn ofalus wrth drafod newidiadau i fformwla Barnett? Mantais y fformwla honno ar hyn o bryd yw ei bod yn gweithio’n awtomatig ac yn atal dwylo trachwantus y Trysorlys rhag effeithio ar yr arian y mae Cymru yn ei dderbyn. Clywais droeon fod llawer yn y Trysorlys yn teimlo bod Cymru yn cael mwy na’i rhan deg yn barod. Fy nodyn i o rybudd yw i chi fod yn ofalus rhag gwneud pethau’n waeth yn hytrach nag yn well.

Edwina Hart spoken in English p. 14

Edwina Hart siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 14

I have always stated in the Chamber that the Barnett formula must be subject to an ongoing review. We are aware of the complexities of British political life and the effect that reopening discussion on the Barnett formula could have on other devolved areas of the United Kingdom. In that context, I understand your caution. I must also be aware of my responsibility in this administration to secure the best available deal for the people of Wales. It is incumbent upon us all to have a watching brief on the Barnett formula.

Yr wyf wastad wedi datgan yn y Siambr bod yn rhaid i fformwla Barnett gael ei hadolygu’n barhaus. Yr ydym yn ymwybodol o gymhlethdodau bywyd gwleidyddol Prydain a’r effaith y gallai ailagor y drafodaeth ar fformwla Barnett ei chael ar ardaloedd datganoledig eraill y Deyrnas Unedig. Yn y cyd-destun hwnnw, deallaf eich rhybudd. Rhaid hefyd imi fod yn ymwybodol o’m cyfrifoldeb yn y weinyddiaeth hon i sicrhau’r fargen orau sydd ar gael i bobl Cymru. Mae’n ddyletswydd ar bawb ohonom gadw llygad ar fformwla Barnett.

Gostwng Lefel Trethi Cyngor

Reducing the Level of Council Taxes

Q2 Nick Bourne spoken in English p. 14

C2 Nick Bourne siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 14

Will Edwina Hart make money available out of the Assembly’s budget to reduce the level of council taxes in Wales? (OAQ3571)

A wnaiff Edwina Hart ddarparu arian o gyllideb y Cynulliad i ostwng lefel trethi cyngor yng Nghymru? (OAQ3571)

Edwina Hart spoken in English p. 14

Edwina Hart siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 14

That question was addressed in my budget statement last Wednesday.

Ymdriniwyd â’r cwestiwn hwn yn fy natganiad ar y gyllideb ddydd Mercher diwethaf.

Nick Bourne spoken in English p. 14

Nick Bourne siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 14

In Edwina Hart’s view, what level of council tax increase is acceptable for pensioners who live in her Gower constituency?

Yn nhyb Edwina Hart, pa lefel o gynnydd yn y dreth gyngor sydd yn dderbyniol i bensiynwyr sydd yn byw yn ei hetholaeth hi yng Ngŵyr?

Edwina Hart spoken in English p. 14

Edwina Hart siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 14

Council tax increase is a matter for local government. I have received several representations from my constituents about the council tax level. I have also received several representations about other levels of increase in services. There is concern, but local government has received a good settlement. It is therefore up to local government to do what it can with its budget in terms of the council tax settlement.

Mater i lywodraeth leol yw codiadau’r dreth gyngor. Derbyniais sawl sylw gan f’etholwyr ynglŷn â lefel y dreth gyngor. Yr wyf hefyd wedi derbyn sawl sylw am lefelau cynnydd eraill mewn gwasanaethau. Mae yna bryder, ond mae llywodraeth leol wedi cael setliad da. Mater i lywodraeth leol felly yw gwneud yr hyn a all gyda’i chyllideb o safbwynt setliad y dreth gyngor.

Pauline Jarman spoken in English p. 15

Pauline Jarman siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 15

Although the budget provided for some positive improvements, it did not provide for the additional £85 million for Objective 1 nor the additional money for the damping mechanism. The Plaid Cymru group therefore abstained from voting on the budget and the local government settlement. Given that the problems of local government funding are not simply related to a new formula but to the need for more money, what assurance can you give that the new arrangements for next year will not merely result in different winners and losers?

Er bod y gyllideb wedi darparu rhai gwelliannau cadarnhaol, ni wnaeth ddarparu’r £85 miliwn ychwanegol ar gyfer Amcan 1 na’r arian ychwanegol ar gyfer y mecanwaith lleddfu. Ymatalodd grŵp Plaid Cymru felly rhag pleidleisio ar y gyllideb a’r setliad i lywodraeth leol. O gofio nad yw problemau cyllido llywodraeth leol yn ymwneud yn unig â fformwla newydd ond â’r angen am fwy o arian, pa sicrwydd y gallwch chi ei roi nad creu enillwyr a chollwyr gwahanol yn unig a wna’r trefniadau newydd ar gyfer y flwyddyn nesaf?

Edwina Hart spoken in English p. 15

Edwina Hart siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 15

I am aware of the concerns on this issue, particularly those of the Environment and Local Government Committee and the local government representatives present in the Chamber. These are concerns about the overall relationship between the Assembly and local government and about the need to properly fund local services, which are accountable to local people. Like you, Pauline, I am concerned that a formula, however good it may be, will always result in winners and losers. Even though we will try to deal with rurality and urban deprivation issues through the new formula, it might not be absolutely to the point. I am aware, as I indicated in my budget statement, that there will be pressures on local government. This is a matter that the Secretary for the Environment and Local Government has raised with me already. He has concerns about local government funding in the future. I am sure that that will be part of his bid in the comprehensive spending review process. It is also something that I fully understand.

Yr wyf yn ymwybodol o’r pryderon ar y mater hwn, yn enwedig bryderon Pwyllgor yr Amgylchedd a Llywodraeth Leol a’r cynrychiolwyr llywodraeth leol sydd yn bresennol yn y Siambr. Mae yna bryderon ynglŷn â’r berthynas rhwng y Cynulliad a llywodraeth leol yn gyffredinol ac am yr angen i gyllido gwasanaethau lleol, sydd yn atebol i bobl leol, yn briodol. Fel chi, Pauline, yr wyf innau’n poeni y bydd fformwla, pa mor dda bynnag ydyw, wastad yn creu enillwyr a chollwyr. Er y byddwn yn ceisio delio ag ystyriaethau cefn gwlad ac amddifadedd trefol drwy’r fformwla newydd, efallai na fydd yn ateb y diben yn llwyr. Yr wyf yn ymwybodol, fel y nodais yn fy natganiad ar y gyllideb, y bydd yna bwysau ar lywodraeth leol. Mae hwn yn fater y mae Ysgrifennydd yr Amgylchedd a Llywodraeth Leol wedi ei godi gyda mi yn barod. Mae ganddo bryderon am gyllid llywodraeth leol yn y dyfodol. Yr wyf yn siŵr y bydd hynny’n rhan o’i gais ym mhroses yr adolygiad cynhwysfawr o wariant. Yr wyf yn ei ddeall yn llwyr.

Alun Cairns spoken in English p. 15

Alun Cairns siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 15

What recommendations would the Finance Secretary make to senior citizens, who have received a 75p per week increase in their old age pensions, compared with the burden of the enormous bill which results from council tax changes?

Pa argymhellion fyddai’r Ysgrifennydd Cyllid yn eu gwneud i’r henoed, sydd wedi derbyn codiad o 75c yr wythnos yn eu pensiynau, o’i gymharu â baich y bil enfawr sydd yn deillio o newidiadau yn y dreth gyngor?

Edwina Hart spoken in English p. 16

Edwina Hart siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 16

I tend not to advise my seniors, because I am far more respectful than that.

Yr wyf yn tueddu i beidio â chynghori pobl hŷn na mi, gan fod gennyf lawer mwy o barch na hynny.

Peter Black spoken in English p. 16

Peter Black siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 16

I am sure that the Finance Secretary is aware that, as councils start to set their budgets for the next financial year during the next fortnight, many will be forced to make severe cuts in services outside the core services of education and social services. Does she accept that, in general, councils are underfunded in terms of those other services? Will she undertake, if money becomes available in the next financial year, to try to direct additional money to the local government settlement?

Yr wyf yn siŵr bod yr Ysgrifennydd Cyllid yn ymwybodol y bydd llawer o gynghorau, wrth iddynt ddechrau gosod eu cyllideb ar gyfer y flwyddyn ariannol nesaf dros y pythefnos nesaf, yn cael eu gorfodi i dorri’n llym ar wasanaethau tu allan i wasanaethau craidd addysg a’r gwasanaethau cymdeithasol. A yw hi’n derbyn bod cynghorau, yn gyffredinol, yn cael rhy ychydig o gyllid tuag at y gwasanaethau hynny. A wnaiff hi addo, os bydd arian ar gael yn y flwyddyn ariannol nesaf, i geisio cyfeirio arian ychwanegol at y setliad i lywodraeth leol?

Edwina Hart spoken in English p. 16

Edwina Hart siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 16

If you feel that there are any services, outside the core services, that require further consideration, Peter, I will be delighted to receive representations on those, along with representations from the Environment and Local Government Committee. Many councils have indicated that they have problems within their existing budgets, but they must look carefully at what they provide and how they provide it.

Os teimlwch fod gwasanaethau, y tu allan i’r gwasanaethau craidd, sydd yn haeddu ystyriaeth bellach, Peter, byddwn wrth fy modd o dderbyn sylwadau ar y rheini, ynghyd â sylwadau gan Bwyllgor yr Amgylchedd a Llywodraeth Leol. Mae llawer o gynghorau wedi nodi bod ganddynt broblemau yn eu cyllidebau presennol, ond rhaid iddynt edrych yn ofalus ar yr hyn y maent yn ei ddarparu a sut y maent yn ei ddarparu.

Brian Gibbons spoken in English p. 16

Brian Gibbons siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 16

Do you agree that the review of allocations for local government should also be informed by the review of the formula for allocation to health services in Wales, not least because both formulas seem to be failing to allocate resources to the areas of greatest need?

A ydych chi’n cytuno y dylai adolygiad y dyraniadau i lywodraeth leol gael ei oleuo gan adolygiad y fformwla ddyrannu ar gyfer y gwasanaethau iechyd yng Nghymru, nid leiaf am fod y ddwy fformwla yn methu, yn ôl pob tebyg, â dyrannu adnoddau i’r meysydd lle mae’r angen mwyaf?

Edwina Hart spoken in English p. 16

Edwina Hart siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 16

Yes. There are fundamental problems with both formulas, but that is always the case. No formula provides a perfect outcome for every Assembly Member, local authority or health authority. When looking at these formulas, we must consider the Assembly’s views on rurality and social deprivation and ensure that they are properly integrated into the formula to achieve a better balance. Therefore, I agree with that.

Ydw. Mae problemau sylfaenol gyda’r ddwy fformwla, ond mae hynny’n wir bob amser. Nid oes fformwla sydd yn rhoi canlyniad perffaith i bob Aelod o’r Cynulliad, awdurdod lleol neu awdurdod iechyd. Wrth edrych ar y fformwlâu hyn, rhaid inni ystyried barn y Cynulliad ar gefn gwlad ac amddifadedd cymdeithasol a sicrhau y cânt eu hintegreiddio’n briodol i mewn i’r fformwla er mwyn cael gwell cydbwysedd. Yr wyf, felly, yn cytuno â hynny.

I understand that the health formula was discussed in the Health and Social Services Committee today and I do not want to pre-empt the Committee’s discussions. However, I would like to hear its representations if they are appropriate to my role as Finance Secretary. There has been a lot of work on getting a fair and clearly worked out local government formula. It is important that we see how that formula will work in practice and that it can make a difference to communities.

Deallaf i’r fformwla iechyd gael ei thrafod yn y Pwyllgor Iechyd a Gwasanaethau Cymdeithasol heddiw ac nid wyf am achub y blaen ar drafodaethau’r Pwyllgor. Fodd bynnag, hoffwn glywed ei sylwadau os ydynt yn berthnasol i’m rôl fel Ysgrifennydd Cyllid. Gwnaethpwyd llawer o waith ar gael fformwla deg sydd wedi ei gweithio’n glir ar gyfer llywodraeth leol. Mae’n bwysig ein bod yn gweld sut y gall y fformwla honno weithio yn ymarferol ac y gall wneud gwahaniaeth i gymunedau.

Diwygio Fformwla Barnett (Ymchwil)

Revision of the Barnett Formula (Research)

Q3 David Melding spoken in English p. 17

C3 David Melding siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 17

Will the administration commission research into the revision of the Barnett formula and the consequent effect on the block grant? (OAQ3561)

A fydd y weinyddiaeth yn comisiynu ymchwil i ddiwygio fformwla Barnett a’r effeithiau a gaiff hynny ar y grant bloc? (OAQ3561)

Edwina Hart spoken in English p. 17

Edwina Hart siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 17

To consider the effect on the block grant of the revision of the Barnett formula would require us to commission a full study of relevant spending needs. I have no plans to do so at the moment, as I have indicated to Michael German, but I will keep the matter under review. As I mentioned earlier, it is an issue to which I might return after the recess and comment further.

Er mwyn ystyried yr effaith ar y grant bloc o adolygu fforwmla Barnett byddai’n rhaid inni gomisiynu astudiaeth lawn o’r anghenion gwariant perthnasol. Nid oes gennyf gynlluniau i wneud hynny ar hyn o bryd, fel y dywedais wrth Michael German, ond byddaf yn parhau i adolygu’r mater. Fel y soniais yn gynharach, mae’n fater y dof yn ôl ato efallai ar ôl y gwyliau i wneud sylwadau pellach arno.

David Melding spoken in English p. 17

David Melding siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 17

Do you agree that Wales is in danger of suffering a double whammy—no needs-led assessment or Objective 1 match funding?

A ydych chi’n cytuno bod Cymru mewn perygl o gael aflwydd dwbl—dim asesiad ar sail angen na chyllid cyfatebol tuag at Amcan 1?

Edwina Hart spoken in English p. 17

Edwina Hart siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 17

We have sufficient funding for the first year of structural funds, as you would expect me to say. I am confident that the First Secretary and I will ensure sufficient funding for the rest of the programme.

Mae gennym gyllid digonol ar gyfer blwyddyn gyntaf y cronfeydd strwythurol, fel y byddech yn disgwyl imi ddweud. Yr wyf yn hyderus y bydd y Prif Ysgrifennydd a minnau yn sicrhau cyllid digonol ar gyfer gweddill y rhaglen.

Cynog Dafis siaradwyd yn Gymraeg t. 17

Cynog Dafis spoken in Welsh p. 17

Mae Plaid Cymru yn herio datganiad Glyn Davies bod Cymru yn derbyn mwy na’i chyfran o fformwla Barnett. Nid ydym yn cytuno. A ydych yn cytuno bod rhaid inni ystyried y mater hwn yng nghyd-destun polisïau ariannol eraill y Llywodraeth, fel lefelau llog, cryfder y bunt, trethiant, gwariant cyhoeddus isel ac Amcan 1? Mae’r cyfan yn niweidiol i economi Cymru. A ydych yn fodlon ymuno â ni i berswadio’r Llywodraeth Lafur yn Llundain i newid cyfeiriad yn radical er mwyn sicrhau bod Cymru yn cael bargen deg—nid yn fwy, na gwell, ond teg—a bod fformwla Barnett yn cael ei hystyried yn y cyd-destun hwnnw?

Plaid Cymru challenges Glyn Davies’s statement that Wales receives more than its share from the Barnett formula. We do not agree. Do you agree that we must consider this matter in the context of the Government’s other financial policies, such as interest rates, the strength of the pound, taxation, low public expenditure and Objective 1? They are all harmful to Wales’s economy. Are you willing to join us to persuade the Labour Government in London to radically change direction to ensure that Wales gets a fair bargain—not more, or better, but fair—and that the Barnett formula is considered in that context?

Edwina Hart spoken in English p. 18

Edwina Hart siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 18

In the wider context of that question, I understand the Assembly’s concerns about the Barnett formula and I will undertake further work to consider them. That is important. We need only look at the benefits of the UK Government’s financial policies in terms of the fall in jobless totals and related issues, which benefit parts of Wales. There was another announcement today that a new call centre will be established in Merthyr Tydfil. I responded positively to your point about the Barnett formula earlier.

Yng nghyd-destun ehangach y cwestiwn hwnnw, yr wyf yn deall pryderon y Cynulliad am fformwla Barnett a byddaf yn ymgymryd â gwaith pellach er mwyn eu hystyried. Mae hynny’n bwysig. Nid oes angen inni ond edrych ar fanteision polisïau ariannol Llywodraeth y DU o ran y gostyngiad yn y niferoedd sydd heb waith a materion cysylltiol, sydd o fudd i rannau o Gymru. Cafwyd cyhoeddiad arall heddiw fod canolfan alwadau newydd i’w sefydlu ym Merthyr Tudful. Ymatebais yn llawn i’ch pwynt ar fformwla Barnett yn gynharach.

Y Swyddfa Ffioedd

Fees Office

Q4 Alison Halford spoken in English p. 18

C4 Alison Halford siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 18

What is the cost of running the Fees Office? (OAQ3572) [R]

Beth yw cost rhedeg y Swyddfa Ffioedd? (OAQ3572) [R]

Edwina Hart spoken in English p. 18

Edwina Hart siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 18

The cost, including indirect costs, is £172,000.

£172,000 yw’r gost, gan gynnwys costau anuniongyrchol.

Alison Halford spoken in English p. 18

Alison Halford siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 18

Are you aware that the Fees Office’s procedures are now so complicated that training on how to submit claims is being considered for Members’ support staff? Do you agree that such training will incur its own costs, and will you consider auditing the Fees Office with a view to simplifying procedures, therefore keeping costs down?

A ydych chi’n ymwybodol bod trefniadau’r Swyddfa Ffioedd mor gymhleth erbyn hyn fel bod hyfforddiant ar sut i gyflwyno ceisiadau yn cael ei ystyried i staff cefnogi’r Aelodau? A ydych chi’n cytuno y bydd hyfforddiant o’r fath yn achosi costau ynddo’i hun, ac a wnewch chi ystyried archwilio’r Swyddfa Ffioedd er mwyn symleiddio’r trefniadau, gan gadw costau i lawr drwy hynny?

Edwina Hart spoken in English p. 18

Edwina Hart siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 18

I note your comments, but I am not placed to answer your question. Any concerns about the management of the Fees Office and the nature of forms are administrative matters. However, other Members have also asked me about the nature of forms, and I will certainly investigate this. I will speak with the appropriate officials and, if necessary, place a reply in the Library outlining my findings. If Members have specific concerns in that area, they can approach me and I will place their concerns in the system.

Nodaf eich sylwadau, ond nid wyf mewn sefyllfa i ateb eich cwestiwn. Materion gweinyddol yw unrhyw bryderon ynglŷn â rheoli’r Swyddfa Ffioedd a natur y ffurflenni. Fodd bynnag, mae Aelodau eraill hefyd wedi fy holi ynglŷn â natur y ffurflenni, a byddaf yn sicr yn ymchwilio i hyn. Byddaf yn siarad â’r swyddogion priodol ac, os bydd raid, yn rhoi ateb yn y Llyfrgell yn amlinellu fy nghasgliadau. Os oes gan Aelodau bryderon penodol yn y maes hwn, gallant gysylltu â mi a rhoddaf eu pryderon yn y system.

Cyllid Llywodraeth Leol

Local Government Finance

Q5 Christine Humphreys spoken in English p. 19

C5 Christine Humphreys siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 19

If more money becomes available during the financial year, will Edwina Hart consider increasing local government finance? (OAQ3573)

Os bydd mwy o arian ar gael yn ystod y flwyddyn ariannol, a fydd Edwina Hart yn ystyried cynyddu’r cyllid i lywodraeth leol? (OAQ3573)

Edwina Hart spoken in English p. 19

Edwina Hart siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 19

As I said on 8 February, I will consider whether there is scope to assist local government if resources become available during the next financial year. I will be minded to consider the needs of local authorities, particularly in relation to housing, on which the Environment and Local Government Committee has spent a lot of time.

Fel y dywedais ar 8 Chwefror, byddaf yn ystyried a oes lle i helpu llywodraeth leol os bydd adnoddau ar gael yn ystod y flwyddyn ariannol nesaf. Byddaf yn barod i ystyried anghenion awdurdodau lleol, yn enwedig ynglŷn â thai, maes y mae Pwyllgor yr Amgylchedd a Llywodraeth Leol wedi treulio llawer o amser arno.

Christine Humphreys spoken in English p. 19

Christine Humphreys siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 19

If money becomes available, will you consider directing some of that money towards the huge shortfall in most local authorities’ highways budgets? We are receving reports from all constituencies about pothole problems. The local government budget cannot cope with the present situation.

Os bydd arian ar gael, a wnewch chi ystyried cyfeirio peth o’r arian hwnnw tuag at y diffyg enfawr yng nghyllidebau priffyrdd y rhan fwyaf o awdurdodau lleol? Yr ydym yn clywed gan bob etholaeth am broblemau gyda thyllau ar y ffyrdd. Ni all cyllideb llywodraeth leol ymdopi â’r sefyllfa fel y mae.

Edwina Hart spoken in English p. 19

Edwina Hart siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 19

I am aware of the concerns about potholes. I held a pensioners’ meeting in my constituency last night and one subject raised was potholes in the Gowerton and Pen-clawdd area. I am aware of the concerns about roads and so on. However, the only concern that I have received is on housing. Obviously, if representations were made to me by the Assembly Secretary and the Committee, I would be minded to listen if any further funds became available during the year. However, if any further funds were available they would be finite in terms of what we could do. It is positive that we have an issue to which we could all agree we could place additional money.

Yr wyf yn ymwybodol o’r pryderon am dyllau. Cynhaliais gyfarfod i bensiynwyr yn fy etholaeth neithiwr ac un mater a godwyd oedd y tyllau yn ardal Tre-gŵyr a Phen-clawdd. Yr wyf yn ymwybodol o’r pryderon am ffyrdd ac ati. Fodd bynnag, yr unig ofid a dderbyniais oedd yn ymwneud â thai. Mae’n amlwg, pe câi sylwadau eu cyflwyno imi gan Ysgrifennydd y Cynulliad a’r Pwyllgor, y byddwn yn barod i wrando pe bai mwy o arian ar gael yn ystod y flwyddyn. Fodd bynnag, pe bai mwy o arian ar gael byddai terfynau ar yr hyn y gallem ei wneud. Mae’n dda bod gennym bwnc y gallem i gyd gytuno y gallem roi arian ychwanegol tuag ato.

Datganiad ar Adroddiad Waterhouse

Statement on the Waterhouse Report

Jane Hutt The Secretary for Health and Social Services spoken in English p. 19

Jane Hutt Yr Ysgrifennydd Iechyd a Gwasanaethau Cymdeithasol siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 19

Andrew Davies announced yesterday that the report of the north Wales child abuse tribunal’s inquiry had been presented to Parliament by the Secretary of State for Wales. There will be a full debate on this in due course. Today I will make a relatively brief statement on the report and our proposals for handling the issues that it raises. I made a similar statement to the Health and Social Services Committee this morning, and I hope that the Committee members will bear with me if I repeat much of what I said for the benefit of the Assembly.

Cyhoeddodd Andrew Davies ddoe fod adroddiad ymchwiliad tribiwnlys cam-drin plant gogledd Cymru wedi ei gyflwyno i’r Senedd gan Ysgrifennydd Gwladol Cymru. Ceir dadl lawn arno maes o law. Heddiw byddaf yn gwneud datganiad cymharol fyr ar yr adroddiad a’n cynigion ni i fynd i’r afael â’r materion a godir ganddo. Gwneuthum ddatganiad tebyg i’r Pwyllgor Iechyd a Gwasanaethau Cymdeithasol y bore yma, a gobeithiaf y bydd aelodau’r Pwyllgor yn amyneddgar pe byddwn yn ailadrodd llawer o’r hyn a ddywedais er budd y Cynulliad.

I know that all Assembly Members will have been appalled by what this report states about the treatment of children and young people at the hands of adults who were supposed to be caring for them. It illustrates all too graphically how the care system at all levels has failed young people in the past. In Committee this morning, I paid tribute to the courage of those who felt able to relive their harrowing experiences in giving evidence to the tribunal. The report contains extensive comment on and criticism of the management of care services for children who live away from their families. Among the organisations which are responsible for the wellbeing of children in care it includes the local authorities, the former Welsh Office and the Social Services Inspectorate for Wales. The report contains over 90 conclusions and over 70 recommendations, ranging over the whole spectrum of care issues—training, planning, regulation, inspection and management, complaints systems and advocacy. Above all, the report shows that we must make a greater effort to listen to children and young people and to act on their concerns. The voices and opinions of the children themselves must become central to their care. Systems must be in place at all levels to ensure that those voices can be heard. We also need to ensure that staff can raise concerns without fear of reprisal or intimidation. Complaints must be investigated properly.

Gwn fod holl Aelodau’r Cynulliad wedi eu brawychu gan yr hyn a ddywed yr adroddiad am y ffordd y cafodd plant a phobl ifanc eu trin gan oedolion a oedd i fod i ofalu amdanynt. Mae’n darlunio yn rhy llachar o lawer sut y mae’r system ofal ar bob lefel wedi methu yn ei dyletswydd tuag at bobl ifanc yn y gorffennol. Yn y Pwyllgor y bore yma, talais deyrnged i ddewrder y rheini a deimlai y gallent ail-fyw eu profiadau dirdynnol er mwyn rhoi tystiolaeth i’r tribiwnlys. Ceir sylwadau a beirniadaeth helaeth yn yr adroddiad ar y modd y rheolir gwasanaethau gofal i blant sydd yn byw ar wahân i’w teuluoedd. Ymysg y cyrff sydd yn gyfrifol am les plant mewn gofal mae’n cynnwys yr awdurdodau lleol, y Swyddfa Gymreig gynt ac Arolygiaeth Gwasanaethau Cymdeithasol Cymru. Mae’r adroddiad yn cynnwys dros 90 o gasgliadau a thros 70 o argymhellion, yn rhychwantu holl sbectrwm materion gofal—hyfforddiant, cynllunio, rheoleiddio, arolygu a rheoli, systemau cwyno ac eiriolaeth. Yn anad dim, dengys yr adroddiad fod yn rhaid inni wneud mwy o ymdrech i wrando ar blant a phobl ifanc a gwneud rhywbeth am eu pryderon. Rhaid i leisiau a barn y plant eu hunain ddod yn ganolog i’w gofal. Rhaid sefydlu systemau ar bob lefel i sicrhau bod y lleisiau hynny yn cael eu clywed. Mae angen hefyd inni sicrhau bod staff yn gallu lleisio pryderon heb ofni dial na bygythiadau. Rhaid ymchwilio’n briodol i gwynion.

Our responsibility is to act on the tribunal’s findings and to ensure that the present and future systems provide the best safeguards that we can devise to protect children in care and to promote their wellbeing. I call on all local authority members throughout Wales to join us in this renewed commitment to our shared responsibility for these children.

Ein cyfrifoldeb ni yw gweithredu ar ganfyddiadau’r tribiwnlys a sicrhau bod systemau’r presennol a systemau’r dyfodol yn darparu’r mesurau diogelu gorau y gallwn eu dyfeisio i amddiffyn plant mewn gofal a hybu eu lles. Galwaf ar bob aelod o awdurdodau lleol ar hyd a lled Cymru i ymuno â ni i ymroi o’r newydd i gyflawni ein cydgyfrifoldeb tuag at y plant hyn.

The Secretary of State for Wales emphasised that our first priority is to assure ourselves, as far as possible, that people who abused children are not in a position to do so now. Those individuals named in evidence who are still working in one of the successor local authorities in north Wales have been traced and risk-assessed. However, given the time-span covered by the report there are a number of individuals against whom findings are made in the report who are no longer working for the successor local authorities and whose current whereabouts are unknown. We must establish the whereabouts of these individuals to ensure that they do not pose a risk to children or to other vulnerable groups.

Pwysleisiodd Ysgrifennydd Gwladol Cymru mai ein blaenoriaeth gyntaf yw sicrhau ein hunain, hyd y gallwn, nad yw pobl a fu’n cam-drin plant mewn sefyllfa i wneud hynny’n awr. Mae’r unigolion hynny a enwyd mewn tystiolaeth sydd yn dal i weithio yn un o awdurdodau lleol olynol gogledd Cymru wedi’u holrhain a’u hasesu o safbwynt risg. Fodd bynnag, o gofio’r cyfnod amser a rychwantir gan yr adroddiad mae nifer o unigolion y ceir canfyddiadau yn eu herbyn yn yr adroddiad nad ydynt mwyach yn gweithio i’r awdurdodau lleol olynol ac na wyddys ym mhle maent ar hyn o bryd. Rhaid inni ganfod ym mhle mae’r unigolion hyn i sicrhau nad ydynt yn peri risg i blant na grwpiau eraill hawdd eu niweidio.

The Government and the Assembly have therefore taken immediate action. The Department of Health has extended the consultancy service index, which is an advisory service for England and Wales whereby employers can check the suitability of those they propose to employ in any childcare post. The service notes the names of those who have received convictions and who at the time of conviction are, or were, in childcare work. It also notes the names of people formerly in such work who have been dismissed or have resigned in certain circumstances. This index has been extended to permit the inclusion of names on the list rather than following referral by an employer. The Secretary of State for Health has announced that a number of individuals named in the report, who have been convicted for offences against children or against whom the tribunal has made a finding of having harmed children or being unsuitable to work with children, are to be included on the extended index on a temporary basis with immediate effect. This is an interim measure pending representations by those individuals which will be carefully considered by the Secretary of State for Health before deciding whether they should be included in the extended index on a permanent basis.

Mae’r Llywodraeth a’r Cynulliad felly wedi gweithredu’n syth. Mae’r Adran Iechyd wedi ehangu mynegai’r gwasanaeth ymgynghorol, sef gwasanaeth cyngori ar gyfer Cymru a Lloegr lle y gall cyflogwyr ymchwilio i addasrwydd y rheini y maent yn bwriadu eu cyflogi mewn unrhyw swydd gofal plant. Mae’r gwasanaeth yn nodi enwau’r rhai sydd wedi eu dyfarnu’n euog ac sydd, neu a oedd, ar adeg y dyfarniad mewn gwaith gofal plant. Mae hefyd yn nodi enwau pobl a fu gynt mewn gwaith o’r fath sydd wedi eu diswyddo neu wedi ymddiswyddo dan amgylchiadau penodol. Ehangwyd y mynegai i ganiatáu cynnwys enwau ar y rhestr yn hytrach nag wedi iddynt gael eu cyfeirio gan gyflogwr. Cyhoeddodd yr Ysgrifennydd Gwladol dros Iechyd fod nifer o unigolion a enwyd yn yr adroddiad, a gafwyd yn euog o droseddau yn erbyn plant neu y mae’r tribiwnlys wedi canfod iddynt niweidio plant neu eu bod yn anaddas i weithio gyda phlant, i gael eu cynnwys ar y mynegai estynedig ar sail dros dro ar unwaith. Mesur interim yw hwn hyd nes y bydd yr unigolion hynny wedi cyflwyno’u hachos a chaiff eu sylwadau eu hystyried yn ofalus gan yr Ysgrifennydd Gwladol dros Iechyd cyn penderfynu a ddylid eu cynnwys yn y mynegai estynedig ar sail barhaol.

The Assembly and the Department of Health are also taking immediate steps to establish the current whereabouts of the 28 individuals named in the report who have been convicted of offences against children or against whom the tribunal has made a finding of having harmed children or being unsuitable to work with children but whose current whereabouts are unknown. We have written to all chief executives of health authorities, NHS trusts and local authorities in England and Wales asking them to check their employment records immediately to verify whether those individuals are currently working with children or other vulnerable groups within their authorities. Any authority in which such individuals are found to be working will be required to inform us quickly of this fact and of the action which the authority proposes to take. The report has been sent to all local authorities, police authorities, health authorities, NHS trusts, voluntary sector bodies, area child protection committees and other bodies that have a key role in the protection of children. That will enable checks to be made where appropriate. Greater numbers of the summary report have also been issued to ensure that the report’s messages are widely read.

Mae’r Cynulliad a’r Adran Iechyd hefyd yn cymryd camau ar unwaith i sefydlu ym mhle yn union ar hyn o bryd y mae’r 28 unigolyn a enwir yn yr adroddiad a ddyfarnwyd yn euog o droseddau yn erbyn plant neu y mae’r tribiwnlys wedi canfod iddynt niweidio plant neu eu bod yn anaddas i weithio gyda phlant ond na wyddys ym mhle maent ar hyn o bryd. Yr ydym wedi ysgrifennu at brif weithredwyr pob awdurdod iechyd, ymddiriedolaeth yr NHS ac awdurdod lleol yng Nghymru a Lloegr gan ofyn iddynt archwilio eu cofnodion cyflogi ar unwaith i gadarnhau a yw’r unigolion hynny yn gweithio gyda phlant neu grwpiau eraill hawdd eu niweidio o fewn eu hawdurdodau ar hyn o bryd. Lle canfyddir bod unigolion o’r fath yn gweithio, bydd gofyn i’r awdurdod roi gwybod inni yn gyflym gan nodi pa gamau y mae’r awdurdod yn bwriadu eu cymryd. Mae’r adroddiad wedi ei anfon at bob awdurdod lleol, awdurdod heddlu, awdurdod iechyd, ymddiriedolaeth yr NHS, corff y sector gwirfoddol, pwyllgor amddiffyn plant rhanbarthol a chyrff eraill sydd â rôl allweddol er amddiffyn plant. Yn sgîl hyn gellir gwneud archwiliadau lle bo hynny’n briodol. Hefyd cyhoeddwyd mwy o gopïau o’r adroddiad cryno i sicrhau bod negeseuon yr adroddiad yn cael eu darllen yn eang.

The report’s scale is vast and we need time to consider its recommendations in detail. The task of implementing the necessary improvement is equally huge but we start from a strong base. The tribunal itself recognises that there have been significant changes over the last decade and that further improvements are planned. The Children Act 1989 and the Protection of Children Act 1999 are already law. The Care Standards Bill and the Children (Leaving Care) Bill anticipate many of the tribunal’s recommendations. The Protection of Children Act 1999 will bring the consultancy service index and the equivalent Department for Education and Employment list 1999 into a single statutory index, and all regulated childcare employers will be obliged to refer to it in recruiting new staff. The Care Standards Bill will introduce improved arrangements for independent regulation and inspection of social services. It will establish new bodies in England and Wales, the national care standards commission and the care standards inspectorate, to regulate local authorities, voluntary and private sector services. They will have powers to inspect all children’s homes, including those with fewer than four children, fostering agencies, voluntary adoption agencies, residential family centres and welfare arrangements in boarding schools. In England and Wales they will include children’s rights directors who will ensure that any allegations of harm or abuse are thoroughly investigated and that the views of children in care are properly taken into account. The Bill will also establish the general social care council and the care council for Wales, which will set out enforceable codes of conduct and practice for all social care employees. They will set standards and regulate the workforce, helping to ensure that staff obtain the training and qualifications they need.

Mae cwmpas yr adroddiad yn enfawr ac mae angen amser arnom i ystyried ei argymhellion yn fanwl. Mae’r dasg o roi’r gwelliannau angenrheidiol ar waith yr un mor enfawr ond yr ydym yn dechrau o seiliau cadarn. Mae’r tribiwnlys ei hun yn cydnabod y bu newidiadau sylweddol dros y degawd diwethaf a bod gwelliannau pellach yn yr arfaeth. Mae Deddf Plant 1989 a Deddf Amddiffyn Plant 1999 yn gyfreithiau eisoes. Mae’r Mesur Safonau Gofal a’r Mesur Plant (yn Gadael Gofal) yn rhagweld llawer o argymhellion y tribiwnlys. Bydd Deddf Amddiffyn Plant 1999 yn llunio un mynegai statudol o fynegai’r gwasanaeth ymgynghorol a rhestr gyfatebol yr Adran Addysg a Chyflogaeth 1999, a bydd yn rhaid i bob cyflogwr gofal plant a reoleiddir gyfeirio ato wrth recriwtio staff newydd. Bydd y Mesur Safonau Gofal yn cyflwyno gwell trefniadau i reoleiddio ac arolygu’r gwasanaethau cymdeithasol yn annibynnol. Bydd yn sefydlu cyrff newydd yng Nghymru a Lloegr, y comisiwn safonau gofal cenedlaethol a’r arolygiaeth safonau gofal, i reoleiddio gwasanaethau’r awdurdodau lleol a’r sectorau gwirfoddol a phreifat. Bydd ganddynt y grym i arolygu pob cartref plant, gan gynnwys y rheini sydd â llai na phedwar o blant, asiantaethau maethu, asiantaethau mabwysiadu gwirfoddol, canolfannau teulu preswyl a threfniadau lles mewn ysgolion preswyl. Yng Nghymru a Lloegr byddant hefyd yn cynnwys cyfarwyddwyr hawliau plant a fydd yn sicrhau yr ymchwilir yn drylwyr i unrhyw honiadau o niwed neu gam-drin a bod barn plant mewn gofal yn cael ei hystyried yn briodol. Bydd y Mesur hefyd yn sefydlu’r cyngor gofal cymdeithasol cyffredinol a’r cyngor gofal i Gymru, a fydd yn cyflwyno codau ymddygiad ac ymarfer gorfodadwy i bob gweithiwr gofal cymdeithasol. Byddant yn pennu safonau ac yn rheoleiddio’r gweithlu, gan helpu i sicrhau bod staff yn cael yr hyfforddiant a’r cymwysterau y mae eu hangen arnynt.

In Wales we are already taking action to ensure, as far as we can, that children are safe in care. In particular, the Assembly is committed to establishing an independent children’s commissioner for Wales. We have introduced the Children First programme to improve the quality of local authority children’s services in Wales, which is supported by substantial additional resources; £5 million was added to the revenue support grant baseline from 1999 to 2000. We expect one third of the proposed £51 million increase in spending on social services in Wales, which was announced for 2000-01, to be spent on children services. In the light of this report, we are making available a further £2 million for central support for children’s services by local authorities. This will now total £3.5 million in 2000-01.

Yng Nghymru yr ydym eisoes yn gweithredu i sicrhau, cyn belled ag y medrwn, fod plant yn ddiogel mewn gofal. Yn benodol, mae’r Cynulliad wedi ymrwymo i sefydlu comisiynydd plant annibynnol i Gymru. Yr ydym wedi cyflwyno’r rhaglen Plant yn Gyntaf i wella ansawdd gwasanaethau plant awdurdodau lleol Cymru, a rhoddwyd adnoddau ychwanegol sylweddol yn gefn i hynny; ychwanegwyd £5 miliwn at linell sylfaen y grant cynnal refeniw rhwng 1999 a 2000. Disgwyliwn i draean y cynnydd arfaethedig o £51 miliwn mewn gwariant ar y gwasanaethau cymdeithasol yng Nghymru, a gyhoeddwyd ar gyfer 2000-01, gael ei wario ar wasanaethau plant. Yng ngoleuni’r adroddiad hwn, yr ydym yn darparu £2 filiwn ychwanegol tuag at gefnogaeth ganolog i wasanaethau plant gan awdurdodau lleol. Bydd hyn bellach yn werth £3.5 miliwn yn 2000-01.

New national foster care standards and a code of practice on recruitment and training of foster care carers have been introduced. Revised guidance on working together to protect children from abuse and neglect will be published in the next few weeks. We will publish shortly a practice guide on the investigation of allegations of abuse of looked-after children made against a professional or carer. We consulted last year on new proposals to improve the education of looked-after children. We are looking at the future of advocacy services for children in care in Wales. In the meantime, we continue to fund organisations such as Voices from Care, which represent young people with experience in the care system. These initiatives take us some way towards the improvements that the tribunal recommends. However, their report makes significant new recommendations. We must consider what further changes we need to introduce in Wales.

Cyflwynwyd safonau gofal maeth cenedlaethol newydd a chod ymarfer ar recriwtio a hyfforddi gofalwyr maeth. Caiff canllawiau diwygiedig ar gydweithio i amddiffyn plant rhag camdriniaeth ac esgeulustra eu cyhoeddi yn yr wythnosau nesaf. Cyn bo hir byddwn yn cyhoeddi canllawiau ymarfer ar ymchwilio i honiadau o gam-drin plant dan ofal a wneir yn erbyn gweithiwr proffesiynol neu ofalwr. Y llynedd buom yn ymgynghori ynghylch cynigion newydd i wella addysg plant dan ofal. Yr ydym yn ystyried dyfodol gwasanaethau eiriol i blant mewn gofal yng Nghymru. Yn y cyfamser, yr ydym yn parhau i gyllido cyrff fel Voices from Care, sydd yn cynrychioli pobl ifanc gyda phrofiad o’r system ofal. Mae’r cynlluniau hyn yn mynd rhywfaint o’r ffordd tuag at y gwelliannau a argymhellir gan y tribiwnlys. Fodd bynnag, mae eu hadroddiad yn gwneud argymhellion newydd o bwys. Rhaid inni ystyried pa newidiadau pellach y mae angen inni eu cyflwyno yng Nghymru.

I said that I would explain how we propose to handle the report within the Assembly. I have had discussions with the other party spokespersons about this. Our initial view is that the Health and Social Services Committee should have an early opportunity to discuss the tribunal’s findings and recommendations. This will begin at its meeting on 8 March. We propose that there should then be a Plenary. That will ensure that the Assembly will have the benefit of the Committee’s considered views to inform its deliberations. We will be better placed to reach consensus about key issues and how we should tackle them.

Dywedais y byddwn yn egluro sut y bwriadwn ymdrin â’r adroddiad o fewn y Cynulliad. Yr wyf wedi trafod hyn â llefarwyr y pleidiau eraill. Ein barn gychwynnol yw y dylai’r Pwyllgor Iechyd a Gwasanaethau Cymdeithasol gael cyfle buan i drafod canfyddiadau ac argymhellion y tribiwnlys. Bydd hyn yn dechrau yn ei gyfarfod ar 8 Mawrth. Awgrymwn y dylid cynnal Cyfarfod Llawn wedyn. Bydd hynny’n sicrhau bod y Cynulliad yn gallu manteisio ar farn hyddysg y Pwyllgor i oleuo ei drafodaethau. Byddwn mewn gwell sefyllfa i gyrraedd cysyniad ar faterion allweddol a sut y dylem ymdrin â hwy.

In view of the report’s recommendations on education, the Pre-16 Education Committee will also have a key part to play in formulating the Assembly’s response. It is sad to reflect that, although the tragic events described by the tribunal occurred in Wales, they were far from unique to Wales. Members may be aware that there are currently numerous police investigations underway in other parts of the UK into allegations of abuse in similar settings. Many of the issues can be addressed directly by the Assembly, but other issues, including the need for any new primary legislation will need to be considered at the UK level. This work will be co-ordinated by the Government’s ministerial taskforce on children’s safeguards, of which I am a member. That group has its next meeting on 13 March. An action plan on the tribunal’s report will be its main item of business.

Yn sgîl argymhellion yr adroddiad ar addysg, bydd gan y Pwyllgor Addysg Cyn-16 ran allweddol i’w chwarae hefyd wrth lunio ymateb y Cynulliad. Trist yw gorfod ystyried, er mai yng Nghymru y digwyddodd y pethau echrydus a ddisgrifiwyd gan y tribiwnlys, eu bod ymhell o fod yn unigryw i Gymru. Efallai fod yr Aelodau’n gwybod bod sawl ymchwiliad ar waith gan yr heddlu mewn rhannau eraill o’r DU i honiadau o gam-drin mewn sefydliadau tebyg. Gall y Cynulliad fynd i’r afael â llawer o’r materion yn uniongyrchol, ond mae angen ystyried materion eraill, gan gynnwys yr angen am ddeddfwriaeth sylfaenol newydd, ar lefel y DU. Cydlynir y gwaith hwn gan dasglu gweinidogol y Llywodraeth ar fesurau i ddiogelu plant, yr wyf yn aelod ohono. Mae’r grŵp hwn yn cyfarfod nesaf ar 13 Mawrth. Cynllun i weithredu ar adroddiad y tribiwnlys fydd ei brif eitem o waith.

In conclusion, this report is a shocking indictment of the care system over the past few decades. We will learn the lesson it teaches and move on. The report will have a major influence on future public policy on the care of vulnerable children. I welcome its publication. I know that every Member of the Assembly will join with me in promising that we will do everything within our power to ensure that the appalling events described in the report are never repeated and that, in the future, children are safe in care in Wales. Above all, our attention is firmly on the children and young people who have been abused and suffered as a result of being in care. This is a significant day for the Assembly. This issue requires our full concentration—not just today and in the coming weeks—but as an ongoing responsibility for all of us to our most vulnerable children in Wales.

I gloi, mae’r adroddiad hwn yn feirniadaeth lem o’r system ofal dros y degawdau diwethaf. Dysgwn y wers a geir ohono a symud ymlaen. Bydd yr adroddiad yn ddylanwad o bwys ar bolisi cyhoeddus y dyfodol o ran gofalu am blant bregus eu sefyllfa. Croesawaf ei gyhoeddi. Gwn y bydd pob Aelod o’r Cynulliad yn ymuno â mi i addo y gwnawn bopeth a allem i sicrhau na chaiff y digwyddiadau arswydus a ddisgrifir yn yr adroddiad eu hailadrodd fyth eto ac y bydd plant yn ddiogel mewn gofal yng Nghymru yn y dyfodol. Yn anad dim, hoeliwn ein sylw ar y plant a’r bobl ifanc sydd wedi eu cam-drin ac sydd wedi dioddef yn sgîl bod mewn gofal. Mae hwn yn ddiwrnod pwysig i’r Cynulliad. Mae’r mater hwn yn hawlio ein sylw llawn—nid dim ond heddiw a thros yr wythnosau nesaf—ond fel cyfrifoldeb parhaus ar bawb ohonom tuag at y plant hawsaf i’w niweidio yng Nghymru

Dafydd Elis-Thomas The Presiding Officer spoken in English p. 25

Dafydd Elis-Thomas Y Llywydd siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 25

Thank you, Jane. We will debate this subject at a later stage. However, in view of its importance, I propose to call all Members who have indicated a wish to raise an issue or import a comment.

Diolch ichi, Jane. Byddwn yn trafod y pwnc hwn eto. Fodd bynnag, oherwydd ei bwysigrwydd, bwriadaf alw ar bob Aelod sydd wedi nodi ei fod am godi mater neu fynegi sylw.

Helen Mary Jones spoken in English p. 25

Helen Mary Jones siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 25

I begin by thanking Jane Hutt for the statement and for the open and co-operative way in which she and the Government of Wales are dealing with this difficult matter. I echo her thanks to Sir Ronald Waterhouse and his team and, above all, to the witnesses who have been courageous enough to relive their appalling experiences, with the aim of ensuring that others are protected in future. To thank them with words is not enough; we must repay their courage with action.

Dechreuaf drwy ddiolch i Jane Hutt am y datganiad a’r ffordd agored a chydweithredol y mae hi a Llywodraeth Cymru yn delio â’r mater anodd hwn. Hoffwn adleisio ei diolch i Syr Ronald Waterhouse a’i dîm ac, yn anad dim, i’r tystion a fu’n ddigon dewr i ail-fyw eu profiadau dirdynnol, gyda’r nod o sicrhau y caiff eraill eu hamddiffyn yn y dyfodol. Nid yw diolch iddynt ar air yn ddigon; rhaid inni ad-dalu eu dewrder drwy weithredu.

Nobody reading the report can fail to be deeply moved by the horrendous catalogue of abuse that it details. Even more alarming perhaps is the systematic nature of that abuse and the systematic failure of all the systems that should have prevented it. It may never be possible for us to prevent isolated incidents of abuse in the care system, although that must be our aim. However, we can and must act urgently to implement these recommendations to establish systems that ensure that all children in care in Wales are protected. There can be no higher priority for our Assembly.

Ni all neb sydd yn darllen yr adroddiad beidio â chael ei effeithio’n ddwfn gan y catalog brawychus o gam-drin a ddisgrifir. Mwy dychrynllyd fyth efallai yw natur systematig y cam-drin a methiant systematig yr holl systemau a ddylai fod wedi ei atal. Efallai na fydd modd byth inni atal digwyddiadau unigol o gam-drin yn y system ofal, er bod rhaid inni anelu at hynny. Fodd bynnag, fe allwn, ac mae’n rhaid inni, symud ar frys i weithredu’r argymhellion hyn i sefydlu systemau a fydd yn sicrhau bod pob plentyn mewn gofal yng Nghymru yn cael ei amddiffyn. Ni allai fod blaenoriaeth uwch i’n Cynulliad.

We in Plaid Cymru—The Party of Wales are already drawing up our detailed response to the recommendations with Westminster colleagues, and we look forward to working with the Government of Wales and those in the Assembly and elsewhere to move this agenda forward. This afternoon, I will refer to a handful of specific matters.

Yr ydym ni ym Mhlaid Cymru—The Party of Wales eisoes yn llunio ein hymateb manwl i’r argymhellion gyda’n cyd-aelodau yn San Steffan, ac edrychwn ymlaen at weithio gyda Llywodraeth Cymru a phobl yn y Cynulliad ac mewn mannau eraill i symud yr agenda hon yn ei blaen. Y prynhawn yma, byddaf yn cyfeirio at ddyrnaid o faterion penodol.

The need for a children’s commissioner for Wales, first called for by Plaid Cymru—The Party of Wales in 1993, is now universally agreed and accepted. Waterhouse makes plain that the commissioner must have powers to investigate individual complaints as well as to work at a policy level. Therefore, the commissioner must have statutory powers and we call on the Westminster Government to make legislative time available for this purpose urgently.

Mae pawb bellach yn cytuno ac yn derbyn bod angen comisiynydd plant i Gymru, y galwyd amdano gyntaf gan Blaid Cymru—The Party of Wales yn 1993. Fe’i gwneir yn glir gan Waterhouse bod yn rhaid i’r comisiynydd fod â phwerau i ymchwilio i gwynion unigol yn ogystal ag i weithio ar lefel polisi. Felly, rhaid i’r comisiynydd fod â phwerau statudol a galwn ar Lywodraeth San Steffan i ddarparu amser deddfwriaethol i’r diben hwn ar frys.

We envisage a link between the advisory board recommended by Waterhouse and the commissioner’s work, and look forward to developing this approach further through the Health and Social Services Committee, as Jane Hutt outlined. We wholeheartedly endorse the recommendations for a children’s complaints officer at every local authority level and for a national network of advocacy schemes. Such services in Wales are patchy at present and, sadly, where good practice exists, it is often threatened by funding difficulties.

Yr ydym yn rhagweld dolen gyswllt rhwng y bwrdd cynghori a argymhellir gan Waterhouse a gwaith y comisiynydd, ac edrychwn ymlaen at ddatblygu’r drefn hon ymhellach drwy’r Pwyllgor Iechyd a Gwasanaethau Cymdeithasol, fel yr amlinellodd Jane Hutt. Yr ydym yn cefnogi’n llwyr yr argymhellion am swyddog cwynion plant ar lefel pob awdurdod lleol a rhwydwaith cenedlaethol o gynlluniau eiriol. Clytiog yw’r gwasanaethau o’r fath yng Nghymru ar hyn o bryd ac, yn anffodus, lle ceir ymarfer da, mae dan fygythiad yn aml oherwydd anawsterau cyllido.

That brings me to resources. The extra £2 million that Jane Hutt announced today is welcome and we appreciate the Government of Wales finding that money so quickly. However, the cost of full implementation will greatly exceed that figure. We cannot ask our hard-pressed local authorities to find these resources, nor will it be easy to find them within the block grant. We urge the Government of Wales to raise the Waterhouse recommendations in its negotiations with the Treasury on the comprehensive spending review and seek extra funding to enable full implementation.

Daw hynny â mi at adnoddau. Mae’r £2 filiwn ychwanegol a gyhoeddodd Jane Hutt heddiw i’w groesawu a gwerthfawrogwn fod Llywodraeth Cymru wedi canfod yr arian hwnnw mor gyflym. Fodd bynnag, bydd cost gweithredu’r argymhellion yn llawn yn llawer uwch na’r ffigur hwn. Ni allwn ofyn i’n hawdurdodau lleol, sydd dan bwysau’n barod, ganfod yr adnoddau hyn, ac ni fydd ychwaith yn hawdd i’w canfod o fewn y grant bloc. Anogwn Lywodraeth Cymru i godi argymhellion Waterhouse wrth iddynt drafod â’r Trysorlys ar yr adolygiad cynhwysfawr o wariant a cheisio cyllid ychwanegol i allu gweithredu’r argymhellion yn llawn.

There is much else that we will wish to say at a later date about the recommendations. We look forward to further debate in the Committee, the Assembly and in Westminster, where we may seek to amend some aspects of the Care Standards Bill and the Children (Leaving Care) Bill if necessary, specifically to prevent the withdrawal of social security benefits from care leavers. That would be a retrograde step.

Mae llawer mwy y byddwn am ei ddweud eto am yr argymhellion. Edrychwn ymlaen at ddadl bellach yn y Pwyllgor, y Cynulliad ac yn San Steffan, lle y byddwn efallai yn ceisio newid rhai agweddau ar y Mesur Safonau Gofal a’r Mesur Plant (yn Gadael Gofal) os bydd angen, yn benodol i atal tynnu budd-daliadau nawdd cymdeithasol oddi ar y rhai sydd yn gadael gofal. Byddai hynny’n gam yn ôl.

I cannot close without paying tribute to the hundreds of staff across Wales who work tirelessly to care for and support some of our most damaged and vulnerable children in children’s homes across the country. Waterhouse draws our attention to the fact that these staff are too often undervalued, undertrained and underpaid. We must act urgently to address this matter and to ensure that the best quality staff are attracted and retained in this challenging but rewarding work.

Ni allaf orffen heb dalu teyrnged i’r cannoedd o staff ar draws Cymru sydd yn gweithio’n ddiflino i ofalu am a chynnal rhai o’n plant mwyaf bregus, sydd wedi eu niweidio fwyaf, mewn cartrefi plant ar draws y wlad. Mae Waterhouse yn tynnu ein sylw at y ffaith nad yw’r gweithwyr hyn yn aml yn cael eu gwerthfawrogi, eu hyfforddi na’u talu’n ddigonol. Rhaid inni weithredu ar fyrder i roi sylw i’r mater hwn a sicrhau bod staff o’r ansawdd gorau yn cael eu denu a’u cadw yn y gwaith anodd ond gwerth chweil hwn.

Perhaps the worst thing about the Waterhouse report is that so much of it is not new. We have had reports and recommendations before, and much has changed for the better. However, sadly, much has not changed and we can never afford to be complacent. We must take action, though due consideration is essential. We must have consistency of service and accountability across Wales. Most importantly, children must have independent people to whom they can turn, and we must listen to the children. This must never happen again.

Efallai mai’r peth gwaethaf am adroddiad Waterhouse yw bod cymaint ynddo nad yw’n newydd. Yr ydym wedi cael adroddiadau ac argymhellion o’r blaen, ac mae llawer wedi newid er gwell. Fodd bynnag, yn drist iawn, mae llawer heb newid ac ni allwn byth fod yn hunanfodlon. Rhaid inni weithredu, er bod pwyso a mesur priodol yn holl bwysig. Rhaid wrth gysondeb o ran gwasanaeth ac atebolrwydd ar draws Cymru. Yn fwyaf pwysig, rhaid wrth bobl annibynnol y gallai plant droi atynt, a rhaid inni wrando ar y plant. Rhaid i hyn beidio â digwydd byth eto.

David Melding spoken in English p. 27

David Melding siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 27

On behalf of the Conservative group in the Assembly, I welcome the publication of Sir Ronald Waterhouse’s report, but note its devastating findings. I particularly endorse the need for an independent children’s commissioner—the first recommendation that Waterhouse makes. I also join the other parties in stressing the need for that to be on a statutory basis. That now has all-party support. I hope we can get Westminster to legislate very soon. A children’s complaints officer in every social services authority and clear procedures to support whistle-blowers are much needed. How often some of these abuse cases came to the attention of some people but were not followed through should not go unremarked. These people were either not treated seriously or were even subject to disciplinary procedures themselves. We clearly need guidelines.

Ar ran y grŵp Ceidwadol yn y Cynulliad, croesawaf gyhoeddiad adroddiad Syr Ronald Waterhouse, ond nodaf ei ganfyddiadau deifiol. Ategaf yn arbennig yr angen am gomisiynydd plant annibynnol—yr argymhelliad cyntaf a wneir gan Waterhouse. Ymunaf hefyd â’r pleidiau eraill i bwysleisio’r angen am i hynny fod ar sail statudol. Bellach mae pob plaid yn cefnogi hynny. Gobeithiaf y gallwn gael San Steffan i ddeddfu’n fuan iawn. Mae mawr angen swyddog cwynion plant ym mhob awdurdod gwasanaethau cymdeithasol a threfniadau clir yn gefn i’r rhai sydd yn seinio rhybudd. Ni ddylem anghofio mor aml y daeth rhai o’r achosion cam-drin hyn i sylw rhai pobl ond na ddilynwyd y peth i’w ben draw. Un ai ni chafodd y bobl hyn eu cymryd o ddifrif neu bu’n rhaid iddynt hwythau fynd drwy drefn ddisgyblu hyd yn oed. Mae’n amlwg bod angen canllawiau arnom.

Regular visits by social workers to looked-after children is another important reform. Many of these children were left isolated for months and months, years and years. The abuse was made possible by the lack of care and attention in some areas by staff who were responsible for managing and supervising the services. A national review of the pay, status and career development of social care staff and social workers is another prime recommendation made by Sir Ronald Waterhouse. I endorse that. For too long, the status of social workers has been downplayed. Their treatment by society does not reflect the high-standing nature of their profession or the, at best, excellent standards that they uphold. Social work is a difficult profession. It needs us, as politicians, to say how much we value the profession and what a centre of excellence it is, when at its best. That requires a revision of current pay structures.

Mae ymweliadau rheolaidd gan weithwyr cymdeithasol â phlant dan ofal yn ddiwygiad pwysig arall. Gadawyd llawer o’r plant hyn wedi eu hynysu am fisoedd a misoedd, blynyddoedd a blynyddoedd. Gwnaethpwyd y cam-drin yn bosibl gan ddiffyg gofal a sylw mewn rhai ardaloedd gan staff a oedd yn gyfrifol am reoli a goruchwylio’r gwasanaethau. Mae adolygiad cenedlaethol o gyflog, statws a datblygiad gyrfaol staff gofal cymdeithasol a gweithwyr cymdeithasol yn un arall o brif argymhellion Syr Ronald Waterhouse. Cymeradwyaf hynny. Bychanwyd statws gweithwyr cymdeithasol yn rhy hir. Nid yw’r ffordd y mae cymdeithas yn eu trin yn adlewyrchu natur bwysig eu proffesiwn na’r safonau rhagorol y maent yn eu harddel, ar eu gorau. Mae gwaith cymdeithasol yn broffesiwn anodd. Mae angen i ni’r gwleidyddion ddweud gymaint yr ydym yn ei werthfawrogi a’r fath ganolfan ragoriaeth ydyw, ar ei orau. Mae hynny’n golygu adolygu’r strwythurau cyflog presennol.

Sir Ronald Waterhouse calls for better training for councillors to support them in their role and responsibilities as ‘good parents’. That is another area to which I want to draw attention. That was a clear failing in north Wales. As we co-operate with social services authorities, we must emphasise the important role of councillors—particularly those involved with the direct supervision of social services—in visiting homes and taking an interest in care issues. That should not be lost now that there is no statutory requirement for a specific social services committee.

Mae Syr Ronald Waterhouse yn galw am well hyfforddiant i gynghorwyr i’w cynnal yn eu rôl a’u cyfrifoldebau fel ‘rhieni da’. Dyna faes arall yr hoffwn dynnu sylw ato. Yr oedd methiant amlwg yn hyn o beth yng ngogledd Cymru. Wrth inni gydweithredu ag awdurdodau’r gwasanaethau cymdeithasol, rhaid inni bwysleisio rôl bwysig cynghorwyr—yn enwedig y rheini sydd yn ymwneud â goruchwylio’r gwasanaethau cymdeithasol yn uniongyrchol—yn ymweld â chartrefi ac yn ymddiddori mewn materion gofal. Ni ddylid colli hynny gan nad oes gofyniad statudol bellach am bwyllgorau gwasanaethau cymdeithasol penodol.

The report spans the period between 1974 and the early 1990s. It found that vulnerable children were systematically let down by the care system. We must reflect on that. These were not isolated examples of abuse; the failure was systematic. Some advances have occurred and the report highlights the positive impact of developments such as the Children’s Act 1989. The Assembly is currently implementing reforms on the regulation and inspection of social care. We must ensure that these reforms adequately incorporate the Waterhouse report’s recommendations. I join Jane in saying that the Health and Social Services Committee must look at and debate this report thoroughly, as well as the Assembly debating it in Plenary. I am sure that there will be all-party support for this task and for the priority that we must give it. We must guarantee that the recommendations are accomplished and that the good practice identified by Waterhouse is made commonplace throughout Wales.

Mae’r adroddiad yn cwmpasu’r cyfnod rhwng 1974 a’r 1990au cynnar. Canfu i’r system ofal esgeuluso plant hawdd eu niweidio yn systematig. Rhaid inni feddwl am hynny. Nid enghreifftiau ynysig o gam-drin mo’r rhain; yr oedd y methiant yn systematig. Cafwyd rhai camau ymlaen ac mae’r adroddiad yn tanlinellu effaith bositif datblygiadau fel Deddf Plant 1989. Mae’r Cynulliad wrthi ar hyn o bryd yn diwygio’r ffordd o reoleiddio ac arolygu gofal cymdeithasol. Rhaid inni sicrhau bod y diwygiadau hyn yn ymgorffori argymhellion adroddiad Waterhouse yn ddigonol. Ymunaf â Jane drwy ddweud bod yn rhaid i’r Pwyllgor Iechyd a Gwasanaethau Cymdeithasol edrych ar yr adroddiad hwn a’i drafod yn drylwyr, yn ogystal â’r Cynulliad yn ei drafod mewn Cyfarfod Llawn. Yr wyf yn siŵr y bydd cefnogaeth o bob plaid i’r dasg hon ac i’r flaenoriaeth y mae’n rhaid ei rhoi iddi. Rhaid inni warantu bod yr argymhellion yn cael eu cyflawni a bod yr ymarfer da a nodir gan Waterhouse yn dod yn gyffredin ledled Cymru.

I pay particular tribute to the 259 complainants, of whom 129 gave oral evidence. Their experiences were traumatic and have caused long-lasting harm. None of us can doubt the further damage that repeating those experiences to a court tribunal has caused. We have a great debt of gratitude to pay to these people for their act of generosity in reliving those harsh and damaging experiences. As looked after children, they were vulnerable and could have expected the best quality care and protection from society. They did not receive it; they were lost in care. We must ensure that no future generation suffers their miserable plight.

Talaf deyrnged arbennig i’r 259 o achwynwyr, y rhoddodd 129 ohonynt dystiolaeth lafar. Yr oedd eu profiadau yn drawmatig ac maent wedi achos niwed hirbarhaol. Ni all neb ohonom amau’r difrod pellach a achoswyd wrth ailadrodd y profiadau hynny i dribiwnlys llys. Mae gennym ddyled fawr o ddiolch i’w thalu i’r bobl hyn am eu haelioni i ail-fyw’r profiadau llym a niweidiol hynny. Fel plant dan ofal, yr oeddent yn hawdd i’w niweidio a byddent wedi disgwyl gofal ac amddiffyniad o’r ansawdd gorau gan gymdeithas. Ni chawsont hynny; yr oeddent ar goll mewn gofal. Rhaid inni sicrhau na fydd yr un genhedlaeth eto yn dioddef fel y gwnaethant hwy.

Kirsty Williams spoken in English p. 29

Kirsty Williams siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 29

On behalf of the Liberal Democrat group, I thank Jane Hutt for her statement and for bringing this long awaited report to the Assembly. I also express my group’s thanks to the Waterhouse team for its effort. I want to pay tribute to the victims of abuse who had the courage and strength to give evidence and to recount the horrendous treatment and abuse they had endured. Without their courage, it would not have been possible to produce this powerful report. It makes harrowing reading. We in this Chamber cannot begin to imagine the terror, despair and pain that these already vulnerable children must have experienced. These children spoke out and were ignored. They asked for help and were given none. They ran away again and again and were taken back for more abuse without a question being asked.

Ar ran grŵp y Democratiaid Rhyddfrydol, diolchaf i Jane Hutt am ei datganiad ac am ddod â’r adroddiad hwn y bu hir ddisgwyl amdano gerbron y Cynulliad. Mynegaf ddiolch fy ngrŵp hefyd i dîm Waterhouse am ei ymdrech. Hoffwn dalu teyrnged i’r rhai a gam-driniwyd a gafodd y dewrder a’r nerth i roi tystiolaeth a sôn am y driniaeth a’r gamdriniaeth echrydus a ddioddefwyd ganddynt. Heb eu dewrder, ni fyddai’n bosibl llunio’r adroddiad grymus hwn. Mae’n frawychus i’w ddarllen. Ni allwn ni yn y Siambr hon ddechrau dychmygu’r ofn, yr anobaith a’r boen a ddioddefwyd gan y plant hyn oedd eisoes yn fregus. Codasant eu lleisiau ac anwybyddwyd hwy. Gofynasant am help ond ni roddwyd dim. Rhedasant i ffwrdd dro ar ôl tro ac aed â hwy yn ôl i gael eu cam-drin eto heb godi cwestiwn.

We have a duty to ensure that everything possible is done to study and implement the recommendations of the Waterhouse report. Those recommendations are numerous and wide-ranging but I will highlight a few. The first recommendation is to establish a children’s commissioner for Wales. The Liberal Democrats have fought for this for a long time. The Health and Social Services Committee has already begun work on this matter. The position of children’s commissioner needs to be a powerful one. It needs teeth to get things done on behalf of children in Wales. That can only be achieved by giving that role and that office statutory powers. I repeat the calls of David Melding and Helen Mary Jones that legislative time has to be found in Westminster to ensure that that happens.

Mae gennym ddyletswydd i sicrhau y gwneir popeth a ellir ei wneud i astudio a gweithredu’r argymhellion yn adroddiad Waterhouse. Mae’r argymhellion hynny’n niferus ac eang eu cwmpas ond tynnaf sylw at ychydig ohonynt. Yr argymhelliad cyntaf yw sefydlu comisiynydd plant i Gymru. Mae’r Democratiaid Rhyddfrydol wedi ymladd am hyn ers amser maith. Mae’r Pwyllgor Iechyd a Gwasanaethau Cymdeithasol eisoes wedi dechrau gweithio ar y mater. Rhaid i safle’r comisiynydd plant fod yn rymus. Mae angen dannedd arno fel bod pethau’n cael eu gwneud ar ran plant yng Nghymru. Dim ond drwy roi pwerau statudol i’r rôl honno ac i’r swydd honno y gellir cyflawni hynny. Ategaf alwadau David Melding a Helen Mary Jones bod yn rhaid canfod amser deddfu yn San Steffan i sicrhau bod hyn yn digwydd.

I welcome the emphasis in the report on checks and training for staff involved in caring for children, and the calls for better remuneration for their work. We should value the work of social workers more than we have done in the past. I echo Helen Mary’s sentiments on the provision of advocacy services for young people. These young people in north Wales had no independent person to whom to turn. Everybody was involved in the system. There was no independent voice to listen to their calls for help. We need to ensure that good practice is widespread. There are some excellent children advocacy projects in Wales; we need to ensure that they are extended throughout the country.

Croesawaf y pwyslais yn yr adroddiad ar archwiliadau a hyfforddiant i’r staff y mae a wnelont â gofalu am blant, a’r galwadau am well tâl am eu gwaith. Dylem roi mwy o werth ar waith gweithwyr cymdeithasol nag a wnaethom yn y gorffennol. Ategaf sylwadau Helen Mary ar ddarparu gwasanaethau eiriol ar gyfer pobl ifanc. Nid oedd gan y bobl ifanc hyn yng ngogledd Cymru neb annibynnol i droi ato. Yr oedd pawb yn rhan o’r system. Nid oedd llais annibynnol i wrando ar eu galwadau am help. Mae angen inni sicrhau bod ymarfer da yn beth cyffredin. Ceir rhai prosiectau eiriol rhagorol i blant yng Nghymru; mae angen inni sicrhau eu bod yn cael eu hymestyn ar hyd a lled y wlad.

David mentioned whistle-blowing. Last night I spent time with the one individual who spoke out strongly and was attacked personally and professionally for doing so. We need to ensure that staff can operate in a sense of security and that they will be protected and supported if they speak out when they feel that something is wrong. We need to look radically at management performance in social services departments across Wales. As we begin to digest and understand the consequences of this report, a number of issues become apparent. We cannot be complacent. We cannot say that that was then, but that this is now, and things have changed. There has been a great deal of improvement, but we must remember that some of the incidents of abuse in this report happened only a few years ago, in the early 1990s. This was not just a problem of the 1970s or 1980s. It was not a problem of long ago. It was a very recent problem. We must be vigilant and guarantee that these things are not happening now. We must not think that this is a story for today and that, once the recommendations are implemented, we have dealt, done and dispensed with child abuse. We need to return to this again and again, constantly reviewing and updating our protection proposals.

Soniodd David am seinio rhybudd. Treuliais amser neithiwr gyda’r un unigolyn a gododd ei lais yn gryf ac yr ymosodwyd yn bersonol a phroffesiynol arno am wneud hynny. Mae angen inni sicrhau bod staff yn gallu gweithredu gan deimlo’n ddiogel ac y cânt eu hamddiffyn a’u cefnogi os codant eu llais pan fyddant yn teimlo bod rhywbeth o’i le. Mae angen inni edrych yn radical ar berfformiad rheoli mewn adrannau gwasanaethau cymdeithasol ar draws Cymru. Wrth inni ddechrau treulio a deall canlyniadau’r adroddiad hwn, daw nifer o faterion i’r amlwg. Ni allwn fod yn hunanfodlon. Ni allwn ddweud mai yn y gorffennol oedd hyn, ond bod pethau wedi newid erbyn hyn. Cafwyd gwelliannau sylweddol, ond rhaid inni gofio mai dim ond ychydig o flynyddoedd yn ôl, yn y 1990au cynnar, y digwyddodd rhai o’r digwyddiadau cam-drin yn yr adroddiad. Nid dim ond problem y 1970au a’r 1980au oedd hon. Nid problem o gyfnod maith yn ôl. Yr oedd yn broblem ddiweddar iawn. Rhaid inni fod yn wyliadwrus a gwarantu nad yw’r pethau hyn yn digwydd yn awr. Rhaid inni beidio â meddwl mai stori ar gyfer heddiw yw hon ac, unwaith y bydd yr argymhellion wedi eu rhoi ar waith, ein bod wedi delio a gorffen â cham-drin plant a’i waredu. Mae angen inni ddod yn ôl at hyn dro ar ôl tro, gan adolygu a diweddaru ein cynigion amddiffyn yn barhaus.

As a society, we need to look at ourselves and how we value children and young people. We must look at how we treat them, listen to them and take note of what they tell us. As a society, we have been bad at doing that. It is important that we recognise that this report is not only about social services. It uncovers evidence of serious abuse of pupils and young patients as well as those in care. As Sir Ronald Waterhouse says, our response should not be interpreted narrowly. There are lessons to be learnt and safeguards to be put in place in schools and in the NHS, as well as in local authority care. It is no good tightening up one part of the system if other children’s services are left weak and exposed. If we do that, the abusers will simply establish themselves in those weak areas.

Fel cymdeithas, rhaid inni edrych arnom ein hunain a pha werth a roddwn ar blant a phobl ifanc. Rhaid inni edrych ar y ffordd yr ydym yn eu trin, gwrando arnynt a nodi’r hyn a ddywedant wrthym. Fel cymdeithas, ni lwyddom i wneud hynny. Mae’n bwysig ein bod yn cydnabod nad adroddiad am y gwasanaethau cymdeithasol yn unig ydyw. Mae’n dadlennu tystiolaeth am gam-drin difrifol ar ddisgyblion a chleifion ifanc yn ogystal â’r rhai mewn gofal. Fel y dywed Syr Ronald Waterhouse, ni ddylem ddehongli ein hymateb yn gul. Mae gwersi i’w dysgu a mesurau diogelwch i’w sefydlu mewn ysgolion ac yn yr NHS, yn ogystal ag yng ngofal yr awdurdodau lleol. Nid oes diben tynhau un rhan o’r system os gadewir gwasanaethau plant eraill yn wan a noeth. Os gwnawn ni hynny, bydd y rhai sydd yn cam-drin yn sefydlu’u hunain yn y meysydd gwan hynny.

In the last 24 hours, I have listened to and engaged in conversations with some of those who suffered abuse. It is obvious that they have little confidence in our ability as authority figures, and who can blame them? They have little confidence in our ability to make changes and to act, to pursue those still at large and to implement the Waterhouse recommendations. We failed those individuals 20 years ago. We cannot and must not fail them again today.

Dros y 24 awr ddiwethaf, yr wyf wedi gwrando ar a sgwrsio â rhai o’r bobl a gafodd eu cam-drin. Mae’n amlwg nad oes ganddynt fawr o hyder yn ein gallu ni fel ffigyrau o awdurdod, a phwy all eu beio? Prin yw eu hyder yn ein gallu i wneud newidiadau ac i weithredu, i fynd ar ôl y rhai sydd yn dal yn rhydd a rhoi argymhellion Waterhouse ar waith. Methom yn ein dyletswydd tuag at yr unigolion hynny 20 mlynedd yn ôl. Ni allwn a rhaid inni beidio â methu eto heddiw.

Gareth Jones siaradwyd yn Gymraeg t. 31

Gareth Jones spoken in Welsh p. 31

Hoffwn dalu teyrnged i bawb sydd wedi ymwneud â’r adroddiad hwn ac sydd wedi sicrhau bod y cyhoedd yn cael yr holl wybodaeth ynglŷn â’r achosion trist hyn sydd wedi digwydd yn ystod y blynyddoedd diwethaf. Diolchaf am y cyfle i ddweud gair a gobeithiaf roi rhyw oleuni gwahanol ar natur yr adroddiad. Yr wyf am dynnu eich sylw at un pwynt yn arbennig.

I pay tribute to all those who have been involved with this report and who have ensured that the public receive all the information on these sad events that have occurred over the past years. I am grateful for the opportunity to say a few words and I hope to shed a different light on the nature of the report. I wish to draw your attention to one specific point.

Datganaf ddiddordeb yn gyntaf. Myfi oedd un o’r pum person proffesiynol a benodwyd ym Mehefin 1991 gan Bwyllgor Diogelu Plant Ardal Clwyd i ddarparu trosolwg ar yr achosion o gam-drin plant yn un o gartrefi’r awdurdod, sef Cartrefle ym Mrychdyn. Pan ddarllenwch adroddiad Waterhouse, gwelwch gyfeiriad at y trosolwg hwn o dan yr is-bennawd ‘Ymholiad Cartrefle’. Cofnodwyd yr achos yn drylwyr. Paratowyd y trosolwg yn 1991 a chafodd ei gyflwyno yn Chwefror 1992. Mae wyth mlynedd ers hynny. Daethom i’r casgliad bod hanes gofal plant yn y cartref hwnnw yn drychinebus.

I will first declare an interest. I was one of five professional people appointed in June 1991 by the Clwyd Area Child Protection Committee to give an overview of the child abuse cases in one of the authority’s homes, Cartrefle in Broughton. When you read the Waterhouse report, you will see a reference to this overview under the sub-heading ‘The Cartrefle Inquiry’. The case was thoroughly recorded. The overview was prepared in 1991 and presented in February 1992. That was eight years ago. We concluded that childcare in that home was disastrous.

Mae paragraff 15.19 yn y crynodeb o’r adroddiad sydd ger ein bron heddiw yn cadarnhau’r hyn a sywleddolwyd gennym yn 1991.

Paragraph 15.19 of the report summary that is before us today confirms what we realised in 1991.

‘Wrth wraidd y broblem roedd staffio anaddas ond pwysleisiwyd rhychwant eang o fethiannau eraill…Roedd canlyniadau’r holl fethiannau hyn yn peri niwed mawr i’r plant unigol, llawer ohonynt â phroblemau dwys’.

‘At the root of the problem was unsuitable staffing but there was a wide spectrum of other failures…The consequences of all these failings were highly damaging to the individual children, many with serious problems’.

Yr oedd y methiannau hynny yn bodoli yn 1991. Maent wedi’u rhestru yn yr adroddiad a gyhoeddwyd bryd hynny. Mae’r holl newidiadau y dymunem eu cyflwyno—y gwelliannau y cyfeiriodd Jane atynt—yn cael eu hargymell yn yr adroddiad. Soniai’r adroddiad am ddiffyg hyfforddiant, cynllunio ac arolygiadau. Nid oedd neb y gallai plant droi atynt. Nid oedd ganddynt hyder nac ymddiriedaeth yn neb. Soniai’r adroddiad am yr angen i gloriannu addasrwydd neu anaddasrwydd pobl a geisiai am swyddi. Soniai am ddiffyg goruchwyliaeth, whistle-blowing a’r angen am system eiriolaeth.

Those failings existed in 1991. They are listed in the report that was published at the time. All the changes that we wished to introduce—the improvements to which Jane referred—were recommended in the report. The report referred to a lack of training, planning and reviews. There were no people to whom children could turn. They had no confidence or trust in anyone. The report mentioned the need to assess suitability or unsuitability of job applicants. It mentioned lack of supervision, whistle-blowing and the need for a system of advocacy.

Mae’r cyfan yn adroddiad 1991. Mae’n bosibl i’r materion gael eu crybwyll cyn hynny. Paratowyd adroddiadau mewnol. Y broblem yw i’r adroddiadau hynny gael eu gadael i hel llwch ar silffoedd heb weld golau dydd oherwydd y system. Mae hwn yn bwynt holl bwysig ac fe gyfeirir ato yn adroddiad Waterhouse. Nid wyf innau’n cael unrhyw foddhad o ddarllen yn adroddiad Waterhouse bod trosolwg y panel yr oeddwn yn aelod ohono wedi cyflwyno, ‘argymhellion ardderchog’. Mae’r geiriau hynny wedi eu cynnwys yn yr adroddiad. Yr hyn sydd yn drychinebus yw na chyhoeddwyd yr adroddiad a baratowyd gennym yn ei gyfanrwydd bryd hynny. Byddai hynny wedi helpu i ddatrys problemau ac wedi osgoi’r cam-drin pellach a ddigwyddodd ac sydd yn parhau i ddigwydd i blant.

It is all in the 1991 report. These matters may have been mentioned before then. Internal reports had been prepared. The problem is that these reports were left to gather dust on the shelves and never saw the light of day because of the system. This is a crucial point and there is reference to it in the Waterhouse report. It gives me no pleasure to read in the Waterhouse report that the overview of the panel of which I was a member had presented ‘excellent recommendations’. Those words are included in the report. What is tragic is that the report that we prepared was not published in its entirety at that time. That would have helped to solve problems and avoid the further abuse of children that happened and continues to happen.

Fel y gŵyr pawb, ataliwyd ymholiad fy mhanel innau i Gartrefle ynghyd ag adroddiad diweddarach Jillings. Mae’r system wedi methu. Os oes gan unrhyw un ddiddordeb mewn gweld sut mae’r system neu’r sefydliad yn gallu glastwreiddio casgliadau o bwys fel eu bod yn troi’n ddiwerth, darllenwch dudalennau 476 i 478 o’r adroddiad. Gellir gweld sut y mae’r argymhellion positif ac ardderchog yn cael eu newid a’u glastwreiddio i’w cyflwyno mewn adroddiad syml ac aneffeithiol i’r Pwyllgor Iechyd a Gwasanaethau Cymdeithasol. Mae’r adroddiad yn canolbwyntio yn unig ar hyfforddiant a materion tebyg. Mae hyn yn anhygoel, ond darllenwch drosoch eich hunain. Byddwch yn cytuno â mi.

As everyone knows, my panel’s inquiry into the Cartrefle home was stopped, together with the later Jillings report. The system has failed. If anyone is interested to see how the system or the establishment can water down important conclusions so that they become worthless, they should read pages 476 to 478 of the report. One can see how positive and excellent recommendations are changed and watered down to be presented in a simple and ineffective report to the Health and Social Services Committee. The report concentrates only on training and similar matters. This is incredible, but read it for yourselves. You will agree with me.

Cyflwynwyd adroddiadau o’r blaen ac yr oeddwn yn gysylltiedig ag un ohonynt. Yr hyn a ddigwyddodd oedd i’r cwmni yswiriant ymyrryd a rhybuddio y byddai parhau ag ymholiadau yn arwain at bethau eraill. Daeth rhybudd hefyd o du Gwasanaeth Erlyn y Goron i fod yn ofalus. Dyna sut y mae’r system yn gafael ac yn cloi. Mae hynny’n golygu methiant wrth geisio symud ymlaen. Er tegwch i’r adroddiad hwn, rhoddir sylw i’r oedi hwnnw yn ei gasgliadau, a welir ym mhennod 55, paragraff 44. Nid yw’r adroddiad yn beio hen Gyngor Sir Clwyd am yr oedi ac am fethu â chyhoeddi, ond gwneir un argymhelliad pwysig:

Reports have been presented previously, and I was involved with one. What happened was that the insurance company intervened to warn that continuing with inquiries would lead to other things. The Crown Prosecution Service also gave out a warning to be careful. That is how the system takes hold and locks. This means failure in trying to progress. In fairness to this report, attention is paid to that stalling in its conclusions, which is seen in chapter 55, paragraph 44. The report does not blame the old Clwyd County Council for stalling and for failing to publish, but makes one important recommendation:

‘Mae’n ddymunol y dylai Comisiwn y Gyfraith ystyried y materion cyfreithiol sydd yn codi mewn perthynas â chynnal ymholiadau tebyg a gychwynnwyd gan awdurdodau lleol neu gyrff cyhoeddus eraill a chyhoeddi adroddiadau ar ymholiadau o’r fath’.

‘It is desirable that the Law Commission should consider the legal issues that arise in relation to the conduct of inquiries of a similar kind initiated by local authorities or other public bodies and publication of the reports of such inquiries’.

Mae ymholiadau ac adroddiadau yn dangos bod yr awydd i wella a datrys wedi bodoli. Fodd bynnag, ni chyflwynwyd, ac ni lwyddodd y cyfryw adroddiadau oherwydd bygythiadau gan bobl megis y cwmnïau yswiriant. Hoffwn ichi ystyried y pwynt hwnnw yn ddwys. Mae’n ofynnol i Gomisiwn y Gyfraith archwilo hyn, neu fel arall ni fyddwn yn symud ymlaen. Pe baem wedi cael yr adroddiad yn ei gyfanrwydd wyth mlynedd yn ôl, gellid bod wedi osgoi rhagor o dristwch, o ddagrau ac o gam-drin plant. Yr oedd y plant yn chwilio am ofal ond methasom â rhoi hynny iddynt.

Inquiries and reports show that a desire to improve and solve has existed. However, those reports were not published and were therefore not successful, because of threats from people such as the insurance companies. I would like you to consider that point seriously. It is necessary for the Law Commission to examine this, otherwise we will not progress. If we had had the report in its entirety eight years ago, we could have avoided further sadness, tears and child abuse. The children were looking for care and we failed to give them that.

Rod Richards spoken in English p. 34

Rod Richards siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 34

I have one point to make to the Secretary for Health and Social Services, in addition to the points made by earlier speakers. I will not rehearse those points because I cannot disagree with or fault anything that has been said.

Mae gennyf un pwynt i’w wneud i’r Ysgrifennydd Iechyd a Gwasanaethau Cymdeithasol, yn ychwanegol at pwyntiau’r siaradwyr blaenorol. Nid ailadroddaf y pwyntiau hynny oherwydd ni allaf anghytuno na gweld dim o’i le ar unrhyw beth a ddywedwyd.

While the Secretary for Health and Social Services and her colleagues in Cardiff and Whitehall will want to take forward the recommendations made in the Waterhouse report, it should be borne in mind that the people who committed these crimes against young people, generally called paedophiles, suffer from a sickness for which there is no known effective treatment. It is not a matter of these people being evil. I urge Jane Hutt to consider the Waterhouse recommendations as the starting point of a process to protect our children. I also urge her to listen to the remarks made by the Home Secretary and the former First Secretary on amending the Mental Health Act 1999 so that those who suffer from this sickness and cannot be treated effectively may be sectioned under a future amended health act. It is important to do that in addition to implementing the Waterhouse recommendations because those recommendations only deal with the symptoms of the problem and the evil. I hope that she and her colleagues will take a more lateral view of the issue and also examine some of the causes.

Er y bydd yr Ysgrifennydd Iechyd a Gwasanaethau Cymdeithasol a’i chydweithwyr yng Nghaerdydd a San Steffan am fwrw ymlaen â’r argymhellion yn adroddiad Waterhouse, dylid cofio bod y bobl a droseddodd fel hyn yn erbyn pobl ifanc, a elwir yn bedoffilyddion fel arfer, yn dioddef o salwch na wyddom am driniaeth effeithiol ar ei gyfer. Nid mater o bobl ddrwg mo hwn. Anogaf Jane Hutt i ystyried argymhellion Waterhouse fel man cychwyn i broses i amddiffyn ein plant. Anogaf hi hefyd i wrando ar y sylwadau a wnaethpwyd gan yr Ysgrifennydd Cartref a’r cyn-Brif Ysgrifennydd ar ddiwygio Deddf Iechyd Meddwl 1999 fel y bydd modd anfon y rhai sydd yn dioddef o’r salwch hwn, na ellir eu trin yn effeithiol, i ysbyty’r meddwl o dan ddeddf iechyd meddwl wedi’i diwygio yn y dyfodol. Mae’n bwysig gwneud hynny yn ogystal â rhoi argymhellion Waterhouse ar waith oherwydd nid yw’r argymhellion ond yn delio â symptomau’r broblem a’r drwg. Gobeithiaf y bydd hi a’i chyd-aelodau yn edrych ar y mater yn fwy ochrol ac yn ystyried rhai o’r achosion hefyd.

Christine Humphreys spoken in English p. 34

Christine Humphreys siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 34

It is difficult to add to what has already been said because the concerns that we have all shared over many years have been expressed so well today. On the report, I welcome in particular the reference to the commissioner’s duty to present an annual report. I believe that that annual report will have to come to the Assembly. If it does, that means that the buck stops here. We must accept that responsibility, not just for the children who suffered in north Wales, but for those who could suffer throughout Wales. What has come to light in north Wales is probably the tip of the iceberg. I am sure that similar situations occur all over Wales and England. It is our duty to stamp them out in Wales.

Mae’n anodd ychwanegu at yr hyn a ddywedwyd eisoes oherwydd bod y pryderon a rannwyd gan bawb ohonom dros flynyddoedd lawer wedi eu mynegi mor dda heddiw. O ran yr adroddiad, croesawaf yn arbennig y cyfeiriad at ddyletswydd y comisiynydd i gyflwyno adroddiad blynyddol. Credaf y bydd yn rhaid i’r adroddiad blynyddol ddod gerbron y Cynulliad. Os felly, mae’n golygu mai yma y bydd y cyfrifoldeb pennaf. Rhaid inni dderbyn y cyfrifoldeb hwnnw, nid dim ond dros y plant sydd wedi dioddef yng ngogledd Cymru, ond dros y rhai a allai ddioddef ledled Cymru. Mae’n debyg bod llawer mwy i hyn na’r wybodaeth sydd wedi dod i’r amlwg yng ngogledd Cymru. Yr wyf yn siŵr y ceir sefyllfaoedd tebyg ledled Cymru a Lloegr. Ein dyletswydd ni yw cael gwared â hwy yng Nghymru.

Janet Ryder spoken in English p. 35

Janet Ryder siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 35

I emphasise some of Gareth Jones’s points. Over the years, many recommendations have been made on changes in children’s services. Many local authorities will state that they are complying with those changes and for many that is the case. There have been great changes in the delivery of children’s services. However, as more recommendations for changes are to be put forward, we need to take a thorough audit, county by county, of all the recommendations that have come forward and assess how each county has implemented them. We must do that in order to give the public confidence in children’s services.

Hoffwn bwysleisio rhai o bwyntiau Gareth. Dros y blynyddoedd, gwnaethpwyd llawer o argymhellion i newid gwasanaethau plant. Bydd llawer o awdurdodau lleol yn dweud eu bod yn cydymffurfio â’r newidiadau hynny ac i lawer mae hynny’n wir. Cafwyd newidiadau mawr yn y ffordd y cyflwynir gwasanaethau plant. Fodd bynnag, wrth i fwy o argymhellion o blaid newid gael eu cyflwyno, mae angen inni gynnal archwiliad trylwyr, fesul sir, o’r holl argymhellion a gyflwynwyd ac asesu sut y mae pob sir wedi eu gweithredu. Rhaid inni wneud hynny er mwyn ennyn ffydd y cyhoedd yn y gwasanaethau plant.

To echo Helen Mary, many recommendations will have financial implications for local government. As they come forward, they must be funded fully or councils will have to consider cutting back on adult services, which is not acceptable.

I adleisio Helen Mary, bydd i lawer o’r argymhellion oblygiadau ariannol i lywodraeth leol. Wrth iddynt gael eu cyflwyno, rhaid eu cyllido’n llawn neu bydd yn rhaid i’r cynghorau ystyried torri’n ôl ar wasanaethau oedolion, nad yw’n dderbyniol.

Gwenda Thomas siaradwyd yn Gymraeg ac yn Saesneg t. 35

Gwenda Thomas spoken in Welsh and English p. 35

Diolchaf i Jane Hutt am wneud datganiad, am yr ail waith heddiw, ar adroddiad syfrdanol Waterhouse. Talaf deyrnged i bawb a gyfrannodd i alluogi cyhoeddi’r adroddiad hwn.

in Welsh I thank Jane Hutt for making a statement, for the second time today, on the shocking report by Waterhouse. I pay tribute to everyone who contributed to enable the publication of this report.

In January 1999, there were 191 children in care in Neath Port Talbot local authority on 1 January 2000, there were 218. Those figures are sobering, indicating that even in the wake of Waterhouse there will always be a need to be vigilant. Perpetrators of abuse are devious and determined. All settings giving access to children and young people must be safe. We cannot be complacent. However, improvements have been made of late. Having had the opportunity to speak on this matter in the Health and Social Services Committee this morning, I will only mention one improvement here, which I consider extremely important, namely, that residential settings have become smaller. In this context, I pay tribute to foster carers. We must recognise, support and reward foster carers, who provide the overwhelming majority of placements for children in care in authorities throughout Wales. Without their efforts, it would be impossible for local authorities to discharge their duties. Foster care must also be safe and free from unscrupulous individuals. We must always be careful not to undermine foster carers through our public comments. They have a difficult task and we must not create an unfair climate of suspicion. Foster parents to come forward to be assessed, trained, supported and valued if the children in care are to be safeguarded. We must not unwisely or unfairly criticise foster carers by implication and association. Children with special communication needs, who are cared for away from home, are especially vulnerable. Particular emphasis should be placed on ensuring that their rights are safeguarded.

yn Saesneg Ym mis Ionawr 1999, yr oedd 191 o blant mewn gofal yn awdurdod lleol Castell Nedd Port Talbot, ar 1 Ionawr 2000 yr oedd 218. Mae’r ffigurau hyn yn rhai difrifol, gan ddangos hyd yn oed ar ôl Waterhouse y bydd angen bod yn wyliadwrus bob amser. Mae’r rhai sydd yn cam-drin yn gyfrwys a phenderfynol. Rhaid i bob sefydliad lle gellir cael cysylltiad â phlant a phobl ifanc fod yn ddiogel. Ni allwn fod yn hunanfodlon. Fodd bynnag, cafwyd gwelliannau’n ddiweddar. Ar ôl cael y cyfle i siarad ar y mater yn y Pwyllgor Iechyd a Gwasanaethau Cymdeithasol y bore yma, ni wnaf ond sôn am un gwelliant yma sydd, yn fy marn i, yn eithriadol bwysig, sef bod sefydliadau preswyl wedi mynd yn llai. Yn y cyd-destun hwn, talaf deyrnged i ofalwyr maeth. Rhaid inni gydnabod, cefnogi a gwobrwyo gofalwyr maeth, sydd yn darparu’r mwyafrif llethol o leoliadau i blant mewn gofal mewn awdurdodau ledled Cymru. Heb eu hymdrechion hwy, byddai’n amhosibl i’r awdurdodau lleol gyflawni eu dyletswyddau. Rhaid i ofal maeth hefyd fod yn ddiogel ac yn rhydd rhag unigolion diegwyddor. Rhaid inni fod yn ofalus bob amser i beidio â thanseilio gofalwyr maeth drwy ein sylwadau cyhoeddus. Mae ganddynt dasg anodd a rhaid inni beidio â chreu hinsawdd annheg o amheuaeth. Mae angen i ofalwyr maeth ddod ymlaen i gael eu hasesu, eu hyfforddi, eu cefnogi a’u gwerthfawrogi os yw’r plant mewn gofal i gael eu diogelu. Rhaid inni beidio â beirniadu gofalwyr maeth yn annoeth neu’n annheg drwy ensyniad a chysylltiad. Mae plant ag anghenion cyfathrebu arbennig, y gofelir amdanynt oddi cartref, yn arbennig o hawdd i’w niweidio. Dylid rhoi pwyslais arbennig ar sicrhau y diogelir eu hawliau.

Elin Jones siaradwyd yn Gymraeg t. 36

Elin Jones spoken in Welsh p. 36

Rhoddaf sylw ar un mater sydd yn effeithio ar fy etholaeth i. Cyfeiriwyd at Gyfarwyddwr Gwasanaethau Cymdeithasol Cyngor Sir Ceredigion yn adroddiad Waterhouse. Prysuraf i ddweud nad oes unrhyw honiad o drais yn ei erbyn yn bersonol. Siaradais â Phrif Weithredwr Cyngor Sir Ceredigion ynglŷn â’r mater difrifol hwn cyn y Cyfarfod Llawn y prynhawn yma. Mae’r Cyfarwyddwr Gwasanaethau Cymdeithasol dan sylw adref o’i waith ar hyn o bryd o dan gyngor meddygol. Nid yw’r cyngor sir wedi derbyn copi o’r adroddiad eto. Bydd y cyngor yn ymateb yn ffurfiol cyn gynted ag y bydd wedi gweld yr adroddiad yn yr oriau neu ddyddiau nesaf.

I will refer to one matter that affects my constituency. Reference was made to the Social Services Director of Ceredigion County Council in the Waterhouse report. I hasten to add that there was no mention of violence concerning him personally. I spoke to Ceredigion County Council’s Chief Executive about this serious matter before this afternoon’s Plenary. The Social Services Director in question is, at present, absent from his work on medical advice. The county council has not yet received a copy of the report. The council will respond formally as soon as it has seen a copy in the next hours or days.

Gofynnaf i Jane Hutt drafod â Chyngor Sir Ceredigion yn fuan iawn fel y gallwn weithredu ar y cyd, yn briodol a synhwyrol, er mwyn cynnal hyder pobl a phlant Ceredigion yng ngwasanaeth gofal eu sir.

I ask Jane Hutt to hold discussions with Ceredigion County Council very soon so that we can work together, appropriately and sensibly, to uphold the confidence of the people and children of Ceredigion in their county’s care service.

Alun Pugh spoken in English p. 37

Alun Pugh siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 37

Some people named in the Waterhouse report have now disappeared and tracing exercises are underway. I ask that names are cross checked through national insurance numbers on the computers of the inland revenue and through the driver and vehicle licencing agency to ensure that all those individuals are properly traced and do not travel within a million miles of children.

Mae rhai o’r bobl a enwyd yn adroddiad Waterhouse wedi diflannu erbyn hyn ac mae gwaith ar y gweill i’w holrhain. Gofynnaf am i’r enwau gael eu croesgyfeirio drwy rifau yswiriant gwladol ar gyfrifiaduron cyllid y wlad a thrwy’r asiantaeth trwyddedu gyrwyr a cherbydau i sicrhau y deuir o hyd i’r holl unigolion hynny ac nad ydynt yn teithio o fewn miliwn milltir i blant.

Karen Sinclair spoken in English p. 37

Karen Sinclair siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 37

All that has been said will now lead to comprehensive measures that will prevent these things from reoccurring. On a point that Jane raised on the registering of names, I hope that she will ensure that the voluntary sector is not overlooked and that we do not just look at people in paid employment. The voluntary sector should also be scrutinised to ensure that there are no loopholes that would enable these people to escape.

Bydd y cyfan sydd wedi ei ddweud yn arwain at fesurau cynhwysfawr a fydd yn atal y pethau hyn rhag digwydd eto. Ar bwynt a gododd Jane ynglŷn â chofrestru enwau, gobeithiaf y bydd yn sicrhau nad yw’r sector gwirfoddol yn cael ei anwybyddu ac mai nid ar bobl mewn gwaith cyflog yn unig y byddwn yn edrych. Dylid hefyd archwilio’r sector gwirfoddol i sicrhau nad oes unrhyw fylchau a fyddai’n galluogi’r bobl hyn i ddianc.

Richard Edwards spoken in English p. 37

Richard Edwards siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 37

I thank Jane for what must have been a difficult statement to make. Frankly, no words can fully convey the sense of shame and horror we must all share at the appalling way our society has betrayed these innocent young people. We feel shame and horror at the abuse by people in positions of trust and authority, at the negligence and callous disregard of those charged with responsibility for the care system and at the complicity of every citizen in allowing and enabling a culture to evolve where the most vulnerable in our midst—young people for whom we all act in loco parentis through the state—are accorded so little care and respect. It is a comment on our society as a whole, not on most of the dedicated staff who work with little reward in the care system.

Diolch i Jane am ddatganiad a oedd yr wyf yn siŵr yn un anodd i’w wneud. Mewn gwirionedd, nid oes geiriau i gyfleu’n llawn yr ymdeimlad o gywilydd ac arswyd y mae’n rhaid i bawb ohonom ei rannu ynglŷn â’r ffordd frawychus y mae ein cymdeithas wedi bradychu’r bobl ifanc ddiniwed hyn. Teimlwn gywilydd ac arswyd ynglŷn â’r cam-drin gan bobl mewn swyddi ac iddynt ymddiriedaeth ac awdurdod, ynglŷn ag esgeulustra a difrawder y rhai oedd yn gyfrifol am y system ofal ac ynglŷn â rhan pob dinesydd wrth ganiatáu a galluogi diwylliant i ddatblygu lle câi cyn lleied o ofal a pharch ei roi i’r rhai mwyaf bregus yn ein mysg—pobl ifanc y mae pawb ohonom yn gweithredu in loco parentis drostynt drwy’r wladwriaeth. Mae’n sylw ar ein cymdeithas gyfan, nid ar y rhan fwyaf o’r staff ymroddgar sydd yn gweithio heb fawr o gydnabyddiaeth yn y system ofal.

I cannot conceive anything more outrageous or heartbreaking than the manner in which so many lives have been shattered by our collective failure to protect young vulnerable people. I believe that the twin objectives of any well-meaning politician are to enable and to protect. Protecting the most vulnerable and needy takes precedence, with all that it entails in resource allocation and revenue raising. If you cannot protect, you will never enable. If we cannot protect the most vulnerable and needy—and we have patently failed to do so, as this report indicates in the most shocking and harrowing way—we have no earthly right to call ourselves a civilised society.

Ni allaf ddychmygu dim byd mwy gwarthus na thorcalonnus na’r ffordd y mae cynifer o fywydau wedi eu dryllio gan ein methiant torfol i amddiffyn pobl ifanc hawdd eu niweidio. Tybiaf mai dau amcan unrhyw wleidydd da ei fwriad yw galluogi ac amddiffyn. Amddiffyn y rhai mwyaf bregus a mwyaf anghenus yw’r flaenoriaeth bennaf, gyda’r cyfan y mae hynny’n ei olygu o ran dyrannu adnoddau a chodi refeniw. Os na allwch chi amddiffyn, wnewch chi fyth alluogi. Os na allwn amddiffyn y rhai mwyaf bregus a mwyaf anghenus—ac yr ydym wedi methu’n amlwg, fel y dengys yr adroddiad hwn yn y ffordd fwyaf dychrynllyd a dirdynnol—nid oes gennym ddim hawl i alw ein hunain yn gymdeithas wâr.

Jane Davidson spoken in English p. 38

Jane Davidson siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 38

I join with other Members in paying tribute to the people who gave evidence. Like other Members, I have met several of them. That experience is extremely traumatic for them and for people like us. They have discussed their experiences with us and others in their communities as well as with the tribunal.

Ymunaf â’r Aelodau eraill i dalu teyrnged i’r bobl a roddodd dystiolaeth. Fel Aelodau eraill, yr wyf wedi cwrdd â sawl un ohonynt. Mae’r profiad yn un trawmatig iddynt hwy a phobl fel ninnau. Maent wedi trafod eu problemau â ni ac eraill yn eu cymunedau yn ogystal â’r tribiwnlys.

This report is Wales’s shame, but also its opportunity. The 1997 Utting report, ‘People Like Us’, had a clever title. It shows that not only those in care, but abusers, are people like us. One of the greatest difficulties in tackling these kinds of issues is that abusers and children in care do not look any different. That is why the Assembly must concentrate on the regulatory aspects to ensure that abusers cannot get into our systems. I will mention three points, which I gave in evidence to the Utting review. I am pleased to see them as recommendations in the Waterhouse report.

Mae’r adroddiad hwn yn warth ar Gymru, ond hefyd yn gyfle. Yr oedd gan adroddiad Utting 1997 deitl clyfar, sef, ‘Pobl Fel Ni’. Dengys mai pobl fel ni yw’r sawl, nid yn unig sydd mewn gofal, ond hefyd y sawl sydd yn cam-drin. Un o’r anawsterau pennaf wrth fynd i’r afael â’r mathau yma o faterion yw nad yw’r camdrinwyr na’r plant mewn gofal yn edrych yn wahanol. Dyna pam y mae’n rhaid i’r Cynulliad ganolbwyntio ar yr agweddau rheoleiddiol i sicrhau na all camdrinwyr fynd i mewn i’n systemau. Cyfeiriaf at dri phwynt, a roddais mewn tystiolaeth i adolygiad Utting. Yr wyf yn falch o’u gweld fel argymhellion yn adroddiad Waterhouse.

First, on advocacy. It is crucial that young people who have something to say about the system of which they are part have opportunities for advocacy. I suggest that, wherever possible, those opportunities are undertaken independently. They should be funded through local government but undertaken separately so that people can feel confident of independence.

Yn gyntaf, ar eiriolaeth. Mae’n hanfodol bod cyfleoedd eiriolaeth ar gael i bobl ifanc sydd â rhywbeth i’w ddweud am y system y maent yn rhan ohoni. Pa le bynnag y mae hynny’n bosibl, awgrymaf y dylai’r cyfleoedd hynny gael eu darparu’n annibynnol. Dylid eu cyllido drwy lywodraeth leol ond eu darparu ar wahân fel y gall pobl deimlo’n hyderus eu bod yn annibynnol.

Secondly, local government is in loco parentis to children in care. That is an extremely important issue and is not only a matter for the Health and Social Services Committee or the Pre-16 Education Committee. It is also a matter for local government and the Partnership Council. We must ensure that, as we accept our democratic responsibility in this Chamber, local government accepts fully its democratic responsibility in the 22 chambers across Wales.

Yn ail, mae llywodraeth leol in loco parentis i blant mewn gofal. Mae hwnnw’n fater eithriadol o bwysig ac nid mater i’r Pwyllgor Iechyd a Gwasanaethau Cymdeithasol neu’r Pwyllgor Addysg Cyn-16 yn unig mohono. Mae hefyd yn fater i lywodraeth leol a’r Cyngor Partneriaeth. Rhaid inni sicrhau, fel y derbyniwn ein cyfrifoldeb democrataidd yn y Siambr hon, fod llywodraeth leol yn llwyr dderbyn ei chyfrifoldeb democrataidd yn y 22 siambr ledled Cymru.

Thirdly—and this is much more difficult—we must increase the status of residential social workers. I agree with Gwenda that smaller settings are much better. However, we are all used to media responses over the last few years. When I started working in the Welsh Local Government Association about four years ago, all authorities in Wales had children’s homes. Now many do not. However, we still have the same numbers of children in care. People who work in those systems have been derided and degraded. It has been assumed that, if you are a residential social worker, you have an impure motive. We must ensure that we use the opportunity of this report to highlight the fact that 99.9 per cent of residential social workers have an extraordinary commitment to trying to look after children and ensuring that they have the chances that they have not had before.

Yn drydydd—ac mae hyn yn llawer anoddach—rhaid inni wella statws gweithwyr cymdeithasol preswyl. Cytunaf â Gwenda fod sefydliadau llai yn llawer gwell. Fodd bynnag, yr ydym i gyd wedi arfer ag ymateb y cyfryngau dros y blynyddoedd diwethaf. Pan ddechreuais weithio yng Nghymdeithas Llywodraeth Leol Cymru tua phedair blynedd yn ôl, yr oedd gan bob awdurdod yng Nghymru gartrefi plant. Erbyn hyn, mae llawer heb gartrefi. Fodd bynnag, mae gennym yr un niferoedd o blant mewn gofal o hyd. Mae’r bobl sydd yn gweithio yn y systemau hynny wedi cael eu gwawdio a’u diraddio. Rhagdybiwyd, os gweithiwr cymdeithasol preswyl ydych, fod eich cymhelliad yn amhûr. Rhaid inni sicrhau ein bod yn defnyddio’r adroddiad hwn yn gyfle i amlygu’r ffaith bod 99.9 y cant o weithwyr cymdeithasol preswyl ag ymroddiad neilltuol i geisio gofalu am blant a sicrhau eu bod yn cael y cyfleoedd na chawsant mohonynt cynt.

I am pleased that the Daily Post and The Western Mail have devoted a large amount of coverage to this report today, presenting it to people across Wales. I want everywhere in Britain to learn these lessons from Wales. Let us use the work that has gone into the Waterhouse report. Not many people will read it because of its sheer volume. People like us must read it because we must be informed to make recommendations for the future.

Yr wyf yn falch bod y Daily Post a The Western Mail wedi neilltuo llawer iawn o sylw i’r adroddiad hwn heddiw, gan ei gyflwyno i bobl ledled Cymru. Yr wyf am i bobman ym Mhrydain ddysgu’r gwersi hyn gan Gymru. Gadewch inni ddefnyddio’r gwaith a aeth i mewn i adroddiad Waterhouse. Ni fydd llawer o bobl yn ei ddarllen oherwydd ei faint. Rhaid i bobl fel ni ei ddarllen oherwydd rhaid inni feddu ar yr wybodaeth i wneud argymhellion ar gyfer y dyfodol.

Jane Hutt spoken in English p. 39

Jane Hutt siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 39

I am glad that we have had the opportunity to have this short debate. I know that we will give this matter fuller attention in the Health and Social Services Committee, the Pre-16 Education Committee and the Assembly in Plenary. I thank all the speakers for their strong support for this statement.

Yr wyf yn falch inni gael y cyfle i gynnal y ddadl fer hon. Gwn y byddwn yn rhoi sylw llawnach i’r mater yn y Pwyllgor Iechyd a Gwasanaethau Cymdeithasol, y Pwyllgor Addysg Cyn-16 a’r Cynulliad mewn Cyfarfod Llawn. Diolchaf i’r holl siaradwyr am eu cefnogaeth gref i’r datganiad.

I will clarify a few points for your benefit. The backing for an independent children’s commissioner is clear. Helen Mary Jones, David Melding and Kirsty Williams’s points about the need for the commissioner to have teeth and for the post to be on a statutory basis, form a clear statement by this Assembly. You are right, Christine, to stress that we need mechanisms, such as an annual report from the commissioner. The post must have credibility among children and young people and clout with the public bodies and institutions that need to respond—not just the Assembly. The commissioner must be independent and we must recognise that this is not just a matter for north Wales, but for Wales as a whole and the rest of the UK.

Yr wyf am egluro rhai pwyntiau ichi. Mae’r gefnogaeth i gomisiynydd plant annibynnol yn amlwg. Mae pwyntiau Helen Mary Jones, David Melding a Kirsty Williams am yr angen i’r comisiynydd fod â dannedd ac am i’r swydd fod ar sail statudol, yn llunio datganiad clir gan y Cynulliad hwn. Yr ydych yn iawn, Christine, i bwysleisio bod angen mecanweithiau arnom, megis adroddiad blynyddol gan y comisiynydd. Rhaid i’r swydd fod â hygrededd ymysg plant a phobl ifanc a dylanwad ar y cyrff cyhoeddus a’r sefydliadau y mae angen iddynt ymateb—nid dim ond y Cynulliad. Rhaid i’r comisiynydd fod yn annibynnol a rhaid inni gydnabod mai nid mater i ogledd Cymru yn unig mo hwn, ond i Gymru gyfan a gweddill y DU.

David mentioned whistle-blowers having been treated badly in the past. The Government’s proposals for modernising local government recognise the need for local councils to adopt whistle-blowing procedures in line with the recommendations in the Nolan report. The Local Government Bill, which is currently before Parliament, places a duty on local authorities to adopt an employee’s code. In Wales, such a code should be prepared by the Partnership Council. That goes back to our responsibility with local government, in consultation with the Welsh Local Government Association and trade unions. It would be appropriate for the model employee’s code to include whistle-blowing procedures. We must ensure that that is high up on the Partnership Council’s agenda. A voluntary whistle-blowing code has been drawn up for local police and fire authorities and endorsed by the local government associations in England and Wales. That could form the basis of the new statutory code. However, many local authorities already have such codes in place.

Soniodd David am y rhai sydd yn seinio rhybudd a’u bod wedi eu trin yn wael yn y gorffennol. Mae cynigion y Llywodraeth ar gyfer moderneiddio llywodraeth leol yn cydnabod yr angen i gynghorau lleol fabwysiadu trefniadau seinio rhybudd yn unol â’r argymhellion yn adroddiad Nolan. Mae’r Mesur Llywodraeth Leol, sydd gerbron y Senedd ar hyn o bryd, yn gosod dyletswydd ar awdurdodau lleol i fabwysiadu cod i weithwyr. Yng Nghymru, y Cyngor Partneriaeth a ddylai baratoi cod o’r fath. Mae hynny’n mynd yn ôl at ein cyfrifoldeb gyda llywodraeth leol, drwy ymgynghori â Chymdeithas Llywodraeth Leol Cymru a’r undebau llafur. Byddai’n briodol i’r cod enghreifftiol i weithwyr gynnwys trefniadau seinio rhybudd. Rhaid inni sicrhau bod hynny’n uchel ar agenda’r Cyngor Partneriaeth. Lluniwyd cod seinio rhybudd gwirfoddol i’r awdurdodau heddlu a thân lleol a’i gadarnhau gan y cymdeithasau llywodraeth leol yng Nghymru a Lloegr. Gallai fod yn sail i’r cod statudol newydd. Fodd bynnag, mae llawer o’r awdurdodau lleol wedi rhoi codau o’r fath ar waith yn barod.

I turn to Members’ points about the status of people who work in this sector. Too many staff are still unqualified. Considerable work has been done in England and Wales to encourage training in social care, but Jane Davidson and others are right to say that people in the residential care sector have been degraded and have not had the status, recognition, pay, training or support that they should have had. The Care Standards Bill will give the new care council stronger powers to regulate providers of social work training and to prevent unsuitable people from entering the workforce. We should be moving forward with a well trained, qualified workforce. We have a training support programme in Wales for 2000-01 and, subject to final approval, there will be an increase of expenditure of £400,000 from last year in the training support programme. For that programme, we have set targets for all officers in charge of children’s homes to hold an appropriate qualification by 30 September 2000, all deputies by 30 September 2002 and 85 per cent of residential childcare assistants by September 2003. A new post-qualifying award is being developed, which covers complex childcare work in all settings, including fieldwork, and which will be available in early 2000. We are increasingly securing qualifications as a result of investment in training. We have not discussed this before. These priorities must be brought to budgetary and resource discussions. The Care Standards Bill and the children first programme will help raise the profile of children’s services and social services in general. I hope that is a commitment across the board.

Trof at bwyntiau’r Aelodau ynglŷn â statws bobl sydd yn gweithio yn y sector hwn. Mae gormod o’r staff yn dal heb gymwysterau. Gwnaethpwyd cryn lawer o waith yng Nghymru a Lloegr i annog hyfforddiant mewn gofal cymdeithasol, ond mae Jane Davidson ac eraill yn iawn i ddweud bod pobl yn y sector gofal preswyl wedi cael eu diraddio ac nad ydynt wedi cael y statws, y gydnabyddiaeth, y tâl, yr hyfforddiant na’r gefnogaeth y dylent fod wedi eu cael. Bydd y Mesur Safonau Gofal yn rhoi pwerau cryfach i’r cyngor gofal newydd i reoleiddio darparwyr hyfforddiant gwaith cymdeithasol ac i atal pobl anaddas rhag ymuno â’r gweithlu. Dylem fod yn symud ymlaen gyda gweithlu sydd wedi ei hyfforddi’n dda, a chanddo gymwysterau da. Mae gennym raglen cefnogaeth hyfforddi yng Nghymru ar gyfer 2000-01 ac, yn amodol ar gymeradwyaeth derfynol, ceir cynnydd o £400,000 yn y gwariant o’r flwyddyn ddiwethaf ar y rhaglen cefnogaeth hyfforddi. Ar gyfer y rhaglen honno, yr ydym wedi gosod targedau y dylai’r holl swyddogion â gofal dros gartrefi plant fod â chymhwyster priodol erbyn 30 Medi 2000, pob dirprwy erbyn 30 Medi 2002 ac 85 y cant o gynorthwywyr gofal plant preswyl erbyn Medi 2003. Mae dyfarniad ôl-gymhwyso newydd yn cael ei ddatblygu, sydd yn ymdrin â gwaith gofal plant cymhleth ym mhob sefydliad, gan gynnwys gwaith maes, a bydd ar gael yn gynnar yn 2000. Yr ydym yn sicrhau mwy a mwy o gymwysterau yn sgîl buddsoddi mewn hyfforddiant. Ni thrafodasom hyn o’r blaen. Rhaid dod â’r blaenoriaethau hyn i drafodaethau ar y gyllideb ac adnoddau. Bydd y Mesur Safonau Gofal a’r rhaglen plant yn gyntaf yn help i godi proffil gwasanaethau plant a gwasanaethau cymdeithasol yn gyffredinol. Gobeithiaf fod hynny’n ymrwymiad drwyddo draw.

Thank you, Gareth for your contribution on your involvement in Clwyd. Many reports have been written in the past. We know that some councillors in north Wales have taken the lead as far as children are concerned and have spoken out, often for their concerns to fall on deaf ears. We must remember Sir William Utting’s review, as Jane Davidson said, which was an important response to the findings in north Wales, and as a result of which we have a number of new measures. Performance management in social services is a key part of the new White Paper, ‘Building for the Future’. I stress David’s words that social workers have been at the sharp-end of abuse and criticism. We must ensure that people want to go into social work and that they will be valued and respected. That goes back to Gwenda’s point about the role of foster carers.

Diolch ichi, Gareth, am eich cyfraniad ar eich gwaith yng Nghlwyd. Ysgrifennwyd nifer o adroddiadau yn y gorffennol. Gwyddom fod rhai cynghorwyr yng ngogledd Cymru wedi arwain y ffordd, o ran plant, ac wedi codi eu lleisiau, gyda’u pryderon yn disgyn ar glustiau byddar yn aml. Rhaid inni gofio adolygiad Syr William Utting, fel y dywedodd Jane Davidson, a oedd yn ymateb pwysig i’r canfyddiadau yng ngogledd Cymru, ac o’i herwydd mae gennym nifer o fesurau newydd. Mae rheoli perfformiad yn y gwasanaethau cymdeithasol yn rhan allweddol o’r Papur Gwyn newydd, ‘Adeiladu ar gyfer y Dyfodol’. Ategaf eiriau David bod gweithwyr cymdeithasol wedi cael eu difrïo a’u beirniadu. Rhaid inni sicrhau bod pobl am fynd i faes gwaith cymdeithasol ac y cânt eu gwerthfawrogi a’u parchu. Mae hynny’n mynd yn ôl at bwynt Gwenda ynglŷn â rôl gofalwyr maeth.

In Wales at present we have 3,500 young people in care, but we only have 32 children’s homes. The majority of those young people, therefore, are in foster care. We must send out a message today that we value foster carers’ work. They have guidelines and guidance on their status, criteria and vetting—that is vital, but we must also recognise the role that they play.

Yng Nghymru ar hyn o bryd mae gennym 3,500 o bobl ifanc mewn gofal, ond dim ond 32 o gartrefi sydd gennym. Mae mwyafrif y bobl ifanc hyn, felly, mewn gofal maeth. Rhaid inni gyhoeddi’r neges heddiw ein bod yn gwerthfawrogi gwaith gofalwyr maeth. Mae ganddynt ganllawiau ac arweiniad ar eu statws, meini prawf ac ar archwilio’u hanes—mae hynny’n holl bwysig, ond rhaid inni hefyd gydnabod y rôl y maent yn ei chwarae.

It is important that I take your points, Rod, back to the inter-ministerial taskforce that I will attend in London, as there are many issues relating to the Home Office and to other legislation. I am grateful for your comments. The former First Secretary was involved in these matters in his role in the Home Office and I will also discuss those issues with him. Christine also drew attention to those points.

Mae’n bwysig fy mod yn mynd â’ch pwyntiau chi, Rod, yn ôl i’r tasglu rhyng-weinidogol a fynychaf yn Llundain, gan fod llawer o faterion sydd yn berthnasol i’r Swyddfa Gartref ac i ddeddfwriaeth arall. Yr wyf yn ddiolchgar am eich sylwadau. Bu’r cyn-Brif Ysgrifennydd yn gysylltiedig â’r materion hyn yn ei rôl yn y Swyddfa Gartref a thrafodaf y materion hyn ag yntau hefyd. Tynnodd Christine sylw at y pwyntiau yna hefyd.

It is important, Elin, that we move forward carefully on your point. The Ceredigion County Council director of social services was named in the context of failure in duty to protect children. The report has been sent to all chief executives, and we have talked to the chief executive of Ceredigion County Council today. The relevant sections of the report, relating to the director of social services, were faxed to him this morning. As you suggested, I will undertake to work with the authority on the basis that they take appropriate action concerning the naming of this individual. Thank you for bringing that to my attention.

Mae’n bwysig, Elin, ein bod yn symud ymlaen yn ofalus ar eich pwynt chi. Enwyd cyfarwyddwr gwasanaethau cymdeithasol Cyngor Sir Ceredigion yng nghyd-destun methu yn y ddyletswydd i amddiffyn plant. Anfonwyd yr adroddiad at bob prif weithredwr, ac yr ydym wedi siarad â phrif weithredwr Cyngor Sir Ceredigion heddiw. Ffacsiwyd rhannau perthnasol yr adroddiad, sydd yn cyfeirio at gyfarwyddwr y gwasanaethau cymdeithasol, ato y bore yma. Fel yr awgrymwch, byddaf yn gweithio gyda’r awdurdod ar y sail eu bod yn cymryd camau priodol yn sgîl enwi’r unigolyn hwn. Diolch ichi am ddod â’r mater i’m sylw.

I believe, Alun, that we must make cross-references. I will take your suggestions to the inter-ministerial taskforce. I have been informed, Karen, that the list of 28 named individuals is going to key voluntary organisations. People are now aware that the arrangements introduced under the Protection of Children Act 1999 will come into force in the summer so that anybody employing anyone in childcare must consult that register, which will include the List 99 for people in education as well as the consultancy index that I mentioned earlier. Key voluntary organisations that are registered childcare providers must also apply to that. I assure you that the list of 28 names will go to voluntary organisations.

Credaf, Alun, fod yn rhaid inni wneud croesgyfeiriadau. Af â’ch awgrymiadau i’r tasglu rhyng-weinidogol. Fe’m hysbyswyd, Karen, fod y rhestr o’r 28 unigolyn a enwyd yn mynd i’r mudiadau gwirfoddol allweddol. Mae pobl yn ymwybodol erbyn hyn y bydd y trefniadau a gyflwynwyd o dan Ddeddf Amddiffyn Plant 1999 yn dod i rym yn yr haf fel y bydd unrhyw un sydd yn cyflogi rhywun mewn gofal plant yn gorfod defnyddio’r gofrestr, a fydd yn cynnwys y Rhestr 99 i bobl mewn addysg yn ogystal â’r mynegai ymgynghorol y cyfeiriais ato’n gynharach. Rhaid i fudiadau gwirfoddol allweddol sydd hefyd yn ddarparwyr gofal plant cofrestredig droi ati hefyd. Rhoddaf sicrwydd ichi y bydd y rhestr o’r 28 enw yn mynd i fudiadau gwirfoddol.

Karen Sinclair a gododd—

Karen Sinclair rose—

Dafydd Elis-Thomas The Presiding Officer spoken in English p. 43

Dafydd Elis-Thomas Y Llywydd siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 43

Order. This is a statement.

Trefn. Datganiad yw hwn.

Jane Hutt spoken in English p. 43

Jane Hutt siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 43

I will clarify any questions that you have later, Karen.

Egluraf unrhyw gwestiynau sydd gennych yn ddiweddarach, Karen.

Yes, Jane Davidson, advocacy is vital. We must give status to advocacy—not just giving them money but listening to them. Advocacy can be token unless we recognise that they have a role to play and that we must listen to them. I am sure that the Health and Social Services Committee will wish to consider how we support advocacy schemes in Wales and how we give them proper status, in detail. In relation to local government, in loco parentis is a major issue. I wrote to every councillor soon after I became the Secretary for Health and Social Services about their role and their responsibility to looked-after children in their care. This must also be an issue for the partnership council and we must work together in following this through.

Ydy, Jane Davidson, mae eiriolaeth yn hanfodol. Rhaid inni roi statws i eiriolaeth—nid dim ond rhoi arian iddynt ond gwrando arnynt. Gall eiriolaeth fod yn ddim ond symbol oni chydnabyddwn fod ganddynt rôl i’w chwarae a bod yn rhaid inni wrando arnynt. Yr wyf yn siŵr y bydd y Pwyllgor Iechyd a Gwasanaethau Cymdeithasol am ystyried yn fanwl sut y gallwn gefnogi cynlluniau eiriol yng Nghymru a sut mae rhoi statws priodol iddynt. Yng nghyd-destun llywodraeth leol, mae in loco parentis yn fater o bwys. Ysgrifennais at bob cynghorydd yn fuan ar ôl dod yn Ysgrifennydd Iechyd a Gwasanaethau Cymdeithasol am eu rôl a’u cyfrifoldeb am ofalu am blant yn eu gofal. Rhaid i hwn hefyd fod yn fater i’r cyngor partneriaeth a rhaid inni weithio gyda’n gilydd i ddatblygu hyn.

I will finish with Richard Edwards’s words. If we cannot protect our young people we cannot enable them and we have no earthly right to call ourselves civilised. As public representatives, as has been said today, this is a responsibility that all Assembly Members will take on board following this discussion. It will be closely monitored by the Health and Social Services Committee. We will develop the plans and implement the independent children’s commissioner. All of us in this Chamber will take this seriously.

Yr wyf am orffen gyda geiriau Richard Edwards. Os na allwn amddiffyn ein pobl ifanc ni allwn eu galluogi hwy ac nid oes gennym ddim hawl o gwbl i alw’n hunain yn waraidd. Fel cynrychiolwyr cyhoeddus, fel a ddywedwyd heddiw, mae hwn yn gyfrifoldeb y bydd pob Aelod o’r Cynulliad yn rhoi sylw iddo ar ôl y drafodaeth hon. Caiff ei fonitro’n fanwl gan y Pwyllgor Iechyd a Gwasanaethau Cymdeithasol. Datblygwn y cynlluniau ac yn sefydlu’r comisiynydd plant annibynnol. Bydd pawb ohonom yn y Siambr hon yn cymryd hyn o ddifrif.

Cymeradwyo Canllawiau Cynllunio

Approval of Planning Guidance

Peter Law spoken in English p. 43

Peter Law siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 43

I propose that

Cynigiaf fod

Peter Law (continued) spoken in English p. 44

Peter Law (parhad) siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 44

The Code Of Conduct for Assembly Members and the Code of Conduct for members of the Planning Decision Panel were laid in the Table Office on 2 February 2000.

Gosodwyd y Cod Ymddygiad ar gyfer Aelodau’r Cynulliad a’r Cod Ymddygiad ar gyfer Aelodau’r Panel Penderfyniadau Cynllunio yn y Swyddfa Gyflwyno ar 2 Chwefror 2000

This is a procedural matter. Last month the Assembly agreed that the Standing Orders be amended to allow certain planning decisions to be made by Planning Decision Committees. That was a groundbreaking exercise. It will show a lead to the rest of the UK. The motion asks you to adopt two codes of conduct: one applies to the members of the Planning Decision Panel from which the Planning Decision Committees will be drawn; the second applies to Assembly Members. These codes set out advice on how we should behave when we are involved in or have an interest in a planning matter. It is important that we do not behave or appear to behave in a way that could prejudice the integrity of the Assembly’s decision. That could lead to the decision being challenged in the courts. More importantly, it would lead to a loss of public confidence in how these matters are dealt with by the Assembly.

Mater o drefn yw hwn. Y mis diwethaf cytunodd y Cynulliad i newid Rheolau Sefydlog i ganiatáu i rai penderfyniadau cynllunio gael eu gwneud gan Bwyllgorau Penderfyniadau Cynllunio. Torrodd hynny dir newydd. Bydd yn dangos arweiniad i weddill y DU. Mae’r cynnig yn gofyn ichi fabwysiadu dau god ymddygiad: un sydd yn berthnasol i aelodau’r Panel Penderfyniadau Cynllunio, y llunnir y Pwyllgorau Penderfyniadau Cynllunio o’u plith; a’r ail yn berthnasol i Aelodau’r Cynulliad. Mae’r codau hyn yn rhoi cyngor ar sut y dylem ymddwyn pan fo gennym ran neu fuddiant mewn mater cynllunio. Mae’n bwysig nad ydym yn ymddwyn nac yn ymddangos fel pe baem yn ymddwyn mewn ffordd a allai niweidio uniondeb penderfyniad y Cynulliad. Gallai hynny arwain at herio’r penderfyniad yn y llysoedd. Yn fwy pwysig, byddai’n peri i’r cyhoedd golli ffydd yn y ffordd y mae’r Cynulliad yn delio â’r materion hyn.

As the codes state, our aim is to ensure that the parties involved in a planning case that comes before the Assembly for determination are dealt with properly, fairly and justly. Nobody would dispute that. However, there will be times when conflicts of interests arise: for example, when our role as representatives of our constituents conflicts with that of taking a planning decision. Standing Orders provide that, in such cases, members of the Planning Decision Panel may not take part in that decision. We need clear guidance on what we can do on behalf of our constituents as a case goes through the stages of the planning system.

Fel y dywed y codau, ein nod yw sicrhau bod y partïon sydd yn gysylltiedig ag achos cynllunio a ddaw i’w benderfynu gerbron y Cynulliad yn cael eu trin yn briodol, yn deg ac yn gyfiawn. Ni fyddai neb yn anghytuno â hynny. Fodd bynnag, bydd adegau pan fydd gwrthdaro buddiannau yn codi; er enghraifft, pan fydd ein rôl fel cynrychiolwyr ein hetholwyr yn gwrthdaro â’n rôl gwneud penderfyniad cynllunio. Yn ôl y Rheolau Sefydlog, mewn achosion o’r fath, ni chaiff aelodau’r Panel Penderfyniadau Cynllunio gymryd rhan yn y penderfyniad hwnnw. Mae angen arweiniad clir arnom ar yr hyn y gallwn ei wneud ar ran ein hetholwyr wrth i achos fynd drwy gamau’r system gynllunio.

Similar considerations also apply to Assembly Members who are not involved in the decision-making processes. It is vital to the integrity of the new arrangements that no improper influence is brought to bear on the decision makers in the Assembly and that the process is seen to be open and fair. The codes have been agreed by the Standards Committee. I believe that they are sensible and will ensure that the Assembly deals with planning cases fairly and is seen to be doing so. I ask Members to support the motion.

Mae ystyriaethau tebyg yn berthnasol hefyd i Aelodau’r Cynulliad nad oes ganddynt ran yn y prosesau penderfynu. Mae’n holl bwysig i uniondeb y trefniadau newydd na ddylanwadir yn amhriodol ar y rhai sydd yn llunio penderfyniadau yn y Cynulliad a bod y broses yn amlwg yn agored a theg. Cytunodd y Pwyllgor Safonau ar y codau. Credaf eu bod yn synhwyrol ac y byddant yn sicrhau bod y Cynulliad yn delio ag achosion cynllunio yn deg ac y gellir gweld ei fod yn gwneud hynny. Gofynnaf i’r Aelodau gefnogi’r cynnig.

Janet Davies spoken in English p. 45

Janet Davies siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 45

I welcome both codes of conduct. It is important for Members to realise that, as members of a Planning Decision Committee, they have a quasi judicial role. Planning applications can involve a lot of money for some people. They, possibly, involve the altering of a way of life for local communities. Pressures will be brought to bear on members of the Planning Decision Committee and on other Members. Having been chair of a planning committee, I know what those pressures can be. You receive hundreds of individual letters, glossy brochures from developers and continual late night phone calls, sometimes getting you up at 1 a.m. Local pressure groups nearly always genuinely represent local views. However, occasionally they can have an unsavoury relationship with the developer.

Croesawaf y ddau god ymddygiad. Mae’n bwysig bod Aelodau’n sylweddoli, fel aelodau o’r Pwyllgor Penderfyniadau Cynllunio, fod ganddynt rôl lled-farnwrol. Gall ceisiadau cynllunio olygu llawer o arian i rai pobl. O bosibl, maent yn golygu newid ffordd o fyw i gymunedau lleol. Caiff pwysau ei ddwyn ar aelodau’r Pwyllgor Penderfyniadau Cynllunio ac ar Aelodau eraill. A minnau wedi bod yn gadeirydd pwyllgor cynllunio, gwn sut bwysau a geir. Mae rhywun yn derbyn cannoedd o lythyrau unigol, llyfrynnau sglein oddi wrth ddatblygwyr a galwadau ffôn di-rif yn hwyr y nos, yn eich codi weithiau am 1 a.m. Mae carfanau pwyso lleol bron bob amser yn cynrychioli safbwyntiau lleol dilys. Fodd bynnag, weithiau gallant ddatblygu perthynas amheus â’r datblygwr.

Assembly Members will be grateful for the codes that have been put forward. We are more distant from the applications than local councillors, but the applications that come to us will be particularly controversial. There will be applications on which we are the final arbiter unless someone embarks on a costly legal case. Therefore, we must be careful to whom we speak about these applications. I am pleased to see that Members will not be sitting on Planning Decision Committees for their own constituency or region. It is important that Members can represent the views of their constituents without affecting the impartiality of a committee. There is an onus on Members to read these codes and to understand them and to appreciate that planning applications at times can be difficult to handle. Plaid Cymru will support this motion.

Bydd Aelodau’r Cynulliad yn ddiolchgar am y codau a gyflwynwyd. Yr ydym ymhellach oddi wrth y ceisiadau na chynghorwyr lleol, ond bydd y ceisiadau a ddaw atom ni yn arbennig o ddadleuol. Bydd ceisiadau lle mai ni fydd y canolwr terfynol oni bai bo rhywun yn dwyn achos cyfreithiol costus. Felly, rhaid inni fod yn ofalus â phwy yr ydym yn siarad am y ceisiadau hyn. Yr wyf yn falch na fydd Aelodau’n eistedd ar y Pwyllgorau Penderfyniadau Cynllunio dros eu hetholaeth na’u rhanbarth eu hunain. Mae’n bwysig bod Aelodau’n gallu cynrychioli barn eu hetholwyr heb effeithio ar gymeriad diduedd pwyllgor. Mae cyfrifoldeb ar Aelodau i ddarllen y codau hyn a’u deall a sylweddoli y gall ceisiadau cynllunio ar adegau fod yn anodd i ymdrin â hwy. Bydd Plaid Cymru’n cefnogi’r cynnig hwn.

Sue Essex spoken in English p. 46

Sue Essex siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 46

I commend Janet’s wise words. I have chaired a planning committee for many years and realise the intense pressure under which people can be placed at times. There are obviously winners and losers with planning applications and the stakes can be high. As Peter said, we are embarking on something new. We must monitor this and see how things go.

Cefnogaf eiriau doeth Janet. Yr wyf wedi cadeirio pwyllgor cynllunio am flynyddoedd lawer a sylweddolaf y pwysau dirfawr sydd ar bobl ar adegau. Yn amlwg, mae rhywrai’n ennill ac eraill yn colli mewn ceisiadau cynllunio a gall llawer iawn fod yn y fantol. Fel y dywedodd Peter, yr ydym yn dechrau ar rywbeth newydd. Rhaid inni fonitro hyn a gweld sut mae pethau’n mynd.

I want to draw Members’ attention to the code of conduct for the lucky Members who do not have the privilege of being on this panel. As Janet said, I hope that you will all read this. It would be difficult for us if Members made statements of opinion or points and then tried to secure support from other Members who may be on the panel. The ultimate embarrassment would be if the nine of us—or 10, including whoever it is—had committed ourselves and made a statement on a planning application and then were barred from sitting on any planning decision panel. As Janet said, this places a responsibility on everyone to give careful thought to constituents’ letters on planning and so on. We could well be in a situation where, inadvertently, people who are eligible to sit on the panel could have passed an opinion and therefore be seen to be in a prejudicial situation.

Hoffwn dynnu sylw’r Aelodau at y cod ymddygiad i’r Aelodau lwcus na chawsant y fraint o fod ar y panel hwn. Fel y dywedodd Janet, gobeithiaf y bydd pawb ohonoch yn darllen hwn. Byddai’n anodd inni pe bai Aelodau’n datgan barn neu bwyntiau ac yna’n ceisio sicrhau cefnogaeth gan Aelodau eraill a allai fod ar y panel. Yr embaras eithaf fyddai pe bai’r naw ohonom—neu’r 10, gan gynnwys pwy bynnag—wedi ymrwymo a gwneud datganiad ar gais cynllunio a’n bod wedyn yn cael ein hatal rhag gwasanaethu ar unrhyw banel penderfyniadau cynllunio. Fel y dywedodd Janet, rhydd hyn gyfrifoldeb ar bawb i ystyried llythyrau etholwyr ar faterion cynllunio ac ati yn ofalus. Gallem yn hawdd fod mewn sefyllfa lle gallai pobl sydd yn gymwys i wasanaethu ar y panel fod wedi datgan barn, yn ddiofal, a bod eu sefyllfa felly yn ymddangos yn niweidiol.

I thank Peter and the staff who have worked hard to draw this together. We have our second planning training session tomorrow when we will try a case. We will see how that works.

Diolchaf i Peter a’r staff sydd wedi gweithio’n galed i ddod â hyn at ei gilydd. Cawn ein hail sesiwn hyfforddiant cynllunio yfory pan fyddwn yn rhoi achos ar brawf. Cawn weld sut gwnaiff weithio.

Peter Law The Secretary for the Environment and Local Government spoken in English p. 46

Peter Law Ysgrifennydd yr Amgylchedd a Llywodraeth Leol siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 46

I thank Janet and Sue for their words of wisdom. They both have long experience of local government, and any Member who has experience of local government will appreciate their advice. Everyone must remember that the onus here is on the Member, as Janet underlined. We need to bear that in mind.

Diolchaf i Janet a Sue am eu geiriau doeth. Mae ganddynt ill dwy brofiad hir o lywodraeth leol, a bydd unrhyw Aelod sydd â phrofiad o lywodraeth leol yn gwerthfawrogi eu cyngor. Rhaid i bawb gofio bod y cyfrifoldeb yma ar yr Aelod, fel y pwysleisiodd Janet. Mae angen inni gofio hynny.

We have decided to do things differently in Wales and there will be much interest in how we deal with planning cases. It is vital that we are not open to criticism or challenge. The codes of conduct provide advice and guidance that will help us to avoid that. The codes are meant as help and not as a straitjacket. The Counsel General will be pleased to advise any Member who has any doubt as to what he or she should do in order to comply with the codes. It is important that Members remember that.

Yr ydym wedi penderfynu gwneud pethau’n wahanol yng Nghymru a bydd cryn ddiddordeb yn y ffordd yr ydym yn delio â cheisiadau cynllunio. Mae’n holl bwysig nad ydym yn agored i feirniadaeth na sialens. Rhydd y codau ymddygiad gyngor ac arweiniad i’n helpu i osgoi hynny. Diben y codau yw ein helpu, nid ein clymu. Bydd y Cwnsler Cyffredinol yn falch o roi cyngor i unrhyw Aelod sydd yn ansicr ynghylch yr hyn y dylai ef neu hi ei wneud er mwyn cydymffurfio â’r codau. Mae’n bwysig i’r Aelodau gofio hynny.

Cynnig Peter Law t. 47

Motion Peter Law p. 47

DerbyniwydAdopted O blaidFor 29 YmatalAbstain 0 Yn erbynAgainst 0

Derbyniwyd y cynnig.

Motion adopted.

Sut y pleidleisiodd yr AelodauHow Members voted
O blaidFor (29)
  • Mick Bates
  • Peter Black
  • Rosemary Butler
  • Alun Cairns
  • Andrew Davies
  • Geraint Davies
  • Janet Davies
  • Ron Davies
  • Richard Edwards
  • Sue Essex
  • Val Feld
  • Michael German
  • William Graham
  • John Griffiths
  • Christine Gwyther
  • Brian Hancock
  • Ann Jones
  • Carwyn Jones
  • Elin Jones
  • Ieuan Wyn Jones
  • Peter Law
  • David Lloyd
  • Alun Michael
  • Tom Middlehurst
  • Jenny Randerson
  • Janet Ryder
  • Karen Sinclair
  • Gwenda Thomas
  • Kirsty Williams

Dirprwyo Swyddogaethau’r Trydydd Gorchymyn Trosglwyddo Swyddogaethau

Delegation of Functions of the Third Transfer of Functions Order

Andrew Davies The Business Secretary spoken in English p. 47

Andrew Davies Y Trefnydd siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 47

I propose that

Cynigiaf fod

Andrew Davies The Business Secretary (continued) spoken in English p. 48

Andrew Davies Y Trefnydd (parhad) siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 48

Paragraph (1) does not apply to any function which the Assembly is precluded from delegating.

Nid yw paragraff (1) yn gymwys i unrhyw swyddogaeth y mae'r Cynulliad wedi'i atal rhag ei dirprwyo.

Members will recall our debate in June last year on delegating to the First Secretary functions transferred to the Assembly by the first transfer of functions Order. The purpose of this motion is to seek your agreement to the functions contained in the latest transfer Order: the National Assembly for Wales (Transfer of Functions) Order 2000, which was approved by the Assembly on 25 January, and the Potatoes Originating in Egypt (Amendment) (Wales) Regulations 2000, made by the Assembly on 16 January. They have been delegated in the same manner.

Bydd yr Aelodau’n cofio ein dadl ym mis Mehefin y llynedd yn dirprwyo i’r Prif Ysgrifennydd swyddogaethau a drosglwyddwyd i’r Cynulliad gan y Gorchymyn trosglwyddo swyddogaethau cyntaf. Diben y cynnig hwn yw ceisio eich cytundeb i’r swyddogaethau sydd wedi eu cynnwys yn y Gorchymyn trosglwyddo diweddaraf: Gorchymyn Cynulliad Cenedlaethol Cymru (Trosglwyddo Swyddogaethau) 2000, a gymeradwywyd gan y Cynulliad ar 25 Ionawr, a Rheoliadau Tatws sy’n Deillio o’r Aifft (Diwygio) (Cymru) 2000, a wnaethpwyd gan y Cynulliad ar 16 Ionawr. Maent wedi eu dirprwyo yn yr un modd.

The delegation will be made in the knowledge that those functions will be further delegated to the appropriate Assembly Secretaries and, where necessary, to staff. As with the first delegation the motion encompasses not only functions directly transferred by the transfer Order but also functions to be conferred in subordinate legislation made by the Assembly under the transferred powers.

Fe’u dirprwyir gan wybod y bydd y swyddogaethau hyn yn cael eu dirprwyo ymhellach i Ysgrifenyddion priodol y Cynulliad a, lle bo angen, i’r staff. Fel gyda’r dirprwyo cyntaf, mae’r cynnig yn cwmpasu nid yn unig swyddogaethau a drosglwyddwyd yn uniongyrchol gan y Gorchymyn trosglwyddo ond hefyd swyddogaethau a roddwyd mewn is-ddeddfwriaeth a wnaethpwyd gan y Cynulliad dan bwerau a drosglwyddwyd.

Members will remember in the debate on 25 January that the transfer Order was a tidying up exercise, which affects more than 70 pieces of legislation covering functions which were previously undertaken by the Welsh Office, but which were omitted from the first transfer Order. As the Order is so wide ranging, rather than being asked to consider each enactment individually, it makes sense to seek your agreement to the delegation of those functions en bloc.

Bydd yr Aelodau’n cofio o’r ddadl ar 25 Ionawr mai mater o dacluso oedd y Gorchymyn trosglwyddo, sydd yn effeithio ar dros 70 o ddarnau o ddeddfwriaeth yn ymdrin â swyddogaethau yr ymgymerai’r Swyddfa Gymreig â hwy gynt, ond a adawyd allan o’r Gorchymyn trosglwyddo cyntaf. Gan fod y Gorchymyn mor eang ei gwmpas, yn hytrach na gofyn ichi ystyried pob darn o ddeddfwriaeth yn unigol, mae’n synhwyrol ceisio eich cytundeb i ddirprwyo’r swyddogaethau gyda’i gilydd.

The Potatoes Regulations 2000 were made in order to implement a European Community decision lifting a total ban on Egyptian ware potatoes. That ban was imposed last year because of the continued prevalence of the plant disease, potato brown rot. Although a total ban has been lifted, the effect of the European Union’s decision is to only allow the import of Egyptian potatoes from designated pest-free areas, ensuring that trade continues with reasonable safeguards.

Gwnaethpwyd Rheoliadau Tatws 2000 er mwyn gweithredu penderfyniad gan y Gymuned Ewropeaidd i godi gwaharddiad llwyr ar werthu tatws o’r Aifft. Gosodwyd y gwaharddiad y llynedd gan fod clefyd llwydni tatws yn dal mor gyffredin. Er bod y gwaharddiad llwyr wedi ei godi, effaith penderfyniad yr Undeb Ewropeaidd yw caniatáu mewnforio tatws dim ond o ardaloedd o’r Aifft sydd wedi eu dynodi’n rhai di-glefyd, gan sicrhau y parheir i fasnachu gyda mesurau diogelwch rhesymol.

Ieuan Wyn Jones spoken in English p. 49

Ieuan Wyn Jones siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 49

I have indicated to the Business Secretary that we will not oppose this transfer Order, which I am sure will give him comfort, after the events of the last few weeks. Nevertheless, it is important and there are two issues that we must consider. First, there is a continual lack of clarity for many Assembly Members as to the exact powers that have been transferred to the Assembly through the transfer of functions Order and secondly, as to how the powers delegated are being used. I ask the Business Secretary, in giving our support to this transfer Order, if greater clarity could be given—particularly to backbench Members—as to the extent of the Assembly’s powers contained in the transfer Orders, because it is a complicated procedure to obtain this information. Will he also agree that it would be useful, occasionally, to have a debate on how the First Secretary, and other Assembly Secretaries, are exercising the functions delegated to them? It is important to remember that these powers are delegated by the Assembly, as a body, to the Executive. It is important for the openness and transparency of our proceedings in the Assembly that we have a report back on how these powers are exercised.

Yr wyf wedi datgan wrth y Trefnydd na fyddwn yn gwrthwynebu’r Gorchymyn trosglwyddo hwn, a fydd yn gysur iddo yr wyf yn siŵr, ar ôl digwyddiadau’r wythnosau diwethaf. Serch hynny, mae’n bwysig ac mae dau fater y mae’n rhaid inni eu hystyried. Yn gyntaf, mae llawer o Aelodau’r Cynulliad yn dal yn aneglur ynglŷn â’r union bwerau sydd wedi eu trosglwyddo i’r Cynulliad drwy’r Gorchymyn trosglwyddo swyddogaethau ac, yn ail, ynglŷn â sut y defnyddiwyd y pwerau a ddirprwywyd. Gofynnaf i’r Trefnydd, wrth roi ein cefnogaeth i’r Gorchymyn trosglwyddo hwn, a ellir egluro’n well—yn enwedig i Aelodau’r meinciau cefn—faint o bwerau’r Cynulliad sydd wedi eu cynnwys yn y Gorchmynion trosglwyddo, oherwydd bod y drefn i gael gafael ar yr wybodaeth hon yn gymhleth. A fyddai hefyd yn cytuno mai da o beth, ar adegau, fyddai cael dadl ar sut y mae’r Prif Ysgrifennydd, ac Ysgrifenyddion eraill y Cynulliad, yn arfer y swyddogaethau a ddirprwywyd iddynt? Mae’n bwysig cofio mai pwerau a ddirprwyir gan y Cynulliad, fel corff, i’r Weithrediaeth yw’r rhain. Mae’n bwysig o ran natur agored a thryloyw ein trafodion yn y Cynulliad ein bod yn cael adroddiad yn ôl ar sut y defnyddir y pwerau hyn.

Michael German spoken in English p. 49

Michael German siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 49

I do not want to comment on Egyptian brown rot, but I will make some comments about the transfer of functions Orders and the consequences of how they are executed. I agree with Ieuan that we need some clarity on this matter. It may come as a surprise to many people in Wales to know that we cannot even define the size of our road signs, because of the way that legislation is carried out. If you want to know what you can do in Wales, under the legislation that has been transferred to us, you must ask a lawyer. I know, as do many people here, that if you ask two lawyers a question, you get two different views. If you ask three lawyers, you might get three views. However, no one has yet catalogued—and this is a surprise to me—the exact powers of this Assembly and how they can be carried out. The reason for that is because only sections of the powers under the Acts have been transferred, not the whole subject. This has created—as we have discussed before—almost a zigzag line in each of these subject areas, where we do not know what has been transferred and what has not. Is it workable to break up Acts of Parliament so that the Assembly has sub-clause powers but not full-clause powers? We must address that question. It is completely different in Scotland because its Parliament can make any subordinate legislation in the areas of competence transferred to it. In our debate on the Queen’s Speech, Ron Davies said that there is a progression towards proper powers, which we must consider.

Nid wyf am sôn am lwydni’r Aifft, ond hoffwn wneud rhai sylwadau am y Gorchmynion trosglwyddo swyddogaethau a chanlyniadau’r modd y’u cyflawnir. Cytunaf â Ieuan fod angen eglurder arnom ar y mater hwn. Efallai y byddai’n syndod i lawer o bobl Cymru wybod na allwn hyd yn oed ddiffinio maint ein harwyddion ffyrdd, oherwydd y ffordd y caiff deddfwriaeth ei chyflawni. Os ydych am wybod beth y gallwch ei wneud yng Nghymru, dan y ddeddfwriaeth a drosglwyddwyd inni, rhaid ichi ofyn i gyfreithiwr. Gwn, fel llawer o bobl yma, y cewch chi ddwy farn wahanol os gofynnwch chi gwestiwn i ddau gyfreithiwr. Os gofynnwch i dri chyfreithiwr, efallai y cewch dair barn. Fodd bynnag, nid oes neb eto wedi catalogio—ac mae hyn yn fy synnu—union bwerau’r Cynulliad a sut y gellir eu rhoi ar waith. Y rheswm am hynny yw mai dim ond adrannau o’r pwerau dan y Deddfau sydd wedi’u trosglwyddo, nid y mater cyfan. Mae hyn wedi creu—fel y trafodasom o’r blaen—linell igam-ogam bron ym mhob un o’r meysydd hyn, lle na wyddom beth sydd wedi ei drosglwyddo a beth nas trosglwyddwyd. A yw’n ymarferol datgymalu Deddfau Seneddol fel bod gan y Cynulliad bwerau is-gymalau ond nid pwerau cymalau llawn? Rhaid inni ddelio â’r cwestiwn hwn. Mae’n gwbl wahanol yn yr Alban oherwydd gall ei Senedd lunio is-ddeddfwriaeth yn y meysydd awdurdod a drosglwyddwyd iddi. Yn ein dadl ar Araith y Frenhines, dywedodd Ron Davies fod dilyniant tuag at bwerau gwirioneddol, a rhaid inni ystyried hynny.

Over 400 Acts and over 2,000 statutory instruments have been transferred to us. Nobody has yet catalogued those statutory instruments and the powers within them. Three hundred of the 400 Acts contain statutory instruments where powers are shared. Therefore, it is not only a question of knowing what the Assembly can do on its own. Many of those powers are shared with a Prime Minister in Whitehall. I presume—and I would like some clarity on this, and perhaps the Business Secretary can tell us—that when these matters are debated and discussed by the Assembly, if they come to a Plenary session, that they must also be signed by a Minister somewhere else. Or does the Minister in London take the lead? I would like to know what happens.

Mae dros 400 o Ddeddfau a thros 2,000 o offerynnau statudol wedi eu trosglwyddo inni. Nid oes neb wedi catalogio’r offerynnau statudol hyn a’r pwerau ynddynt hyd yma. Mae tri chant o’r 400 o Ddeddfau yn cynnwys offerynnau statudol lle rhennir pwerau. Felly, nid cwestiwn yn unig o wybod beth y gall y Cynulliad ei wneud ar ei ben ei hun mohono. Rhennir llawer o’r pwerau hyn gyda Phrif Weinidog yn San Steffan. Tybiaf—a hoffwn eglurhad ar hyn, ac efallai y gall y Trefnydd ddweud wrthym—pan fo’r materion hyn yn cael eu trin a’i trafod gan y Cynulliad, os dônt i Gyfarfod Llawn, fod yn rhaid iddynt gael eu llofnodi hefyd gan Weinidog yn rhywle arall. Neu ai’r Gweinidog yn Llundain sydd yn arwain? Hoffwn wybod beth sydd yn digwydd.

This whole area requires clarity. We must consider how the powers have been transferred to us. There was logic in transferring the powers of the Secretary of State for Wales en bloc. That logic was reasonable because it made it simple for people to understand. However, the consequence of that is that we are continually torn on where we can make decisions for ourselves. Perhaps now is the time for us to ask the fundamental questions about how the statutory instruments and sub-clauses have been transferred to us and whether we should seek the ‘whole concept’ approach, that is, that we can make subordinate legislation under the head Acts, because the subordinate legislation powers that we now have are limited.

Mae angen egluro’r holl faes yn hyn o beth. Rhaid inni ystyried sut mae’r pwerau wedi eu trosglwyddo inni. Yr oedd rhesymeg mewn trosglwyddo pwerau Ysgrifennydd Gwladol Cymru yn eu crynswth. Yr oedd y rhesymeg honno’n rhesymol oherwydd ei bod yn syml i bobl ei ddeall. Fodd bynnag, canlyniad hynny yw ein bod yn ansicr o hyd pa bryd y gallwn wneud penderfyniadau drosom ein hunain. Efallai mai nawr yw’r amser inni ofyn y cwestiynau sylfaenol am sut y mae’r offerynnau statudol a’r is-gymalau wedi eu trosglwyddo inni ac a ddylem geisio’r patrwm ‘cysyniad cyfan’, hynny yw, y gallwn wneud is-ddeddfwriaeth dan y prif Ddeddfau, oherwydd bod y pwerau sydd gennym ar hyn o bryd i wneud is-ddeddfwriaeth yn gyfyngedig.

I would welcome an opportunity for that debate. Perhaps the Business Secretary would consider bringing forward a debate on Assembly powers. The purpose of that debate would not be to seek the great growth in powers that many in this Chamber would desire, but to consider the issues relating to our current powers and how the Assembly carries out its administrative powers. We have been giving the impression that we are carrying out Executive-type functions, largely to do with how we spend and allocate money. However, we could do much more with our legislative powers if there was clarity and a more fulsome and complete approach towards them.

Byddwn yn croesawu cyfle i gynnal y ddadl honno. Efallai y byddai’r Trefnydd yn ystyried cyflwyno dadl ar bwerau’r Cynulliad. Diben y ddadl honno fyddai, nid ceisio cynnydd mawr yn y pwerau y byddai llawer yn y Siambr hon yn ei chwennych, ond ystyried y materion sydd yn berthnasol i’n pwerau presennol a sut y mae’r Cynulliad yn gweithredu ei bwerau gweinyddol. Rhoddwyd inni’r argraff ein bod yn cyflawni swyddogaethau o’r math y byddai Gweithrediaeth yn ymdrin â hwy, yn bennaf yn ymwneud â sut yr ydym yn gwario ac yn dyrannu arian. Fodd bynnag, gallem wneud llawer mwy gyda’r pwerau deddfwriaethol pe bai yna eglurder ac agwedd iachach a mwy cyflawn tuag atynt.

Andrew Davies spoken in English p. 51

Andrew Davies siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 51

I thank Ieuan and Mike for their approach on this matter, although I am disappointed that Mike did not want to debate potato brown rot. He could have saved me several hours reading a briefing on that. The Assembly’s functions is a highly complex matter, and one about which there is clearly a lack of understanding among Members. I agree to consider this matter and come back to the Business Committee on ways of developing the understanding of the process, possibly including a briefing for Members. I agree to report back to the Business Committee on how we can address the issue of understanding the powers at our disposal.

Diolchaf i Ieuan a Mike am y ffordd y maent wedi ymdrin â’r mater hwn, er fy mod yn siomedig nad oedd Mike am drafod llwydni ar datws. Gallai fod wedi arbed rhai oriau o ddarllen papur ar hynny imi. Mae swyddogaethau’r Cynullid yn fater cymhleth iawn, ac un y mae’n amlwg bod diffyg ddealltwriaeth ymysg yr Aelodau yn ei gylch. Cytunaf i ystyried y mater hwn a dod yn ôl i’r Pwyllgor Busnes ar ffyrdd o ddatblygu dealltwriaeth o’r broses, o bosibl gan gynnwys cyfarwyddyd i’r Aelodau. Cytunaf i adrodd yn ôl i’r Pwyllgor Busnes ar sut y gallwn fynd i’r afael â’r mater o ddeall y pwerau sydd ar gael inni.

Cynnig Andrew Davies t. 51

Motion Andrew Davies p. 51

DerbyniwydAdopted O blaidFor 29 YmatalAbstain 0 Yn erbynAgainst 0

Derbyniwyd y cynnig.

Motion adopted.

Sut y pleidleisiodd yr AelodauHow Members voted
O blaidFor (29)
  • Mick Bates
  • Peter Black
  • Rosemary Butler
  • Alun Cairns
  • Christine Chapman
  • Andrew Davies
  • Geraint Davies
  • Janet Davies
  • Ron Davies
  • Richard Edwards
  • Sue Essex
  • Val Feld
  • Michael German
  • William Graham
  • John Griffiths
  • Christine Gwyther
  • Alison Halford
  • Brian Hancock
  • Ann Jones
  • Carwyn Jones
  • Ieuan Wyn Jones
  • Peter Law
  • David Lloyd
  • Alun Michael
  • Jenny Randerson
  • Janet Ryder
  • Karen Sinclair
  • Rhodri Glyn Thomas
  • Kirsty Williams

Cynnig Trefniadol

Procedural Motion

Dafydd Elis-Thomas The Presiding Officer spoken in English p. 52

Dafydd Elis-Thomas Y Llywydd siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 52

To allow the debate on integrated transport policy to take place, I have allowed the Business Secretary to move a procedural motion under Standing Order No. 6.16, to disapply the requirement for five days’ notice under Standing Order No. 6.12.

I ganiatáu i’r ddadl ar bolisi trafnidiaeth integredig fynd rhagddi, yr wyf wedi caniatáu i’r Trefnydd roi cynnig trefniadol gerbron dan Reol Sefydlog Rhif 6.16, sydd yn rhoi heibio’r gofyniad am bum niwrnod o rybudd dan Reol Sefydlog Rhif 6.12.

Andrew Davies The Business Secretary spoken in English p. 52

Andrew Davies Y Trefnydd siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 52

I propose that

Cynigiaf

Cynnig trefniadol Andrew Davies t. 52

Procedural motion Andrew Davies p. 52

DerbyniwydAdopted O blaidFor 31 YmatalAbstain 0 Yn erbynAgainst 0

Derbyniwyd y cynnig.

Motion adopted.

Sut y pleidleisiodd yr AelodauHow Members voted
O blaidFor (31)
  • Mick Bates
  • Peter Black
  • Rosemary Butler
  • Alun Cairns
  • Christine Chapman
  • Andrew Davies
  • Geraint Davies
  • Janet Davies
  • Ron Davies
  • Richard Edwards
  • Sue Essex
  • Val Feld
  • Michael German
  • William Graham
  • John Griffiths
  • Christine Gwyther
  • Alison Halford
  • Brian Hancock
  • Ann Jones
  • Carwyn Jones
  • Ieuan Wyn Jones
  • Peter Law
  • David Lloyd
  • Alun Michael
  • Jenny Randerson
  • Janet Ryder
  • Karen Sinclair
  • Owen John Thomas
  • Rhodri Glyn Thomas
  • Kirsty Williams
  • Phil Williams

Polisi Trafnidiaeth Integredig i Gymru

Integrated Transport Policy for Wales

Peter Law The Secretary for the Environment and Local Government spoken in English p. 53

Peter Law Ysgrifennydd yr Amgylchedd a Llywodraeth Leol siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 53

I propose that

Cynigiaf fod

Peter Law The Secretary for the Environment and Local Government (continued) spoken in English p. 54

Peter Law Ysgrifennydd yr Amgylchedd a Llywodraeth Leol (parhad) siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 54

This is an important debate. In recognition of the hiatus between the original tabling of the motion to debate transport and our Plenary debate today, the motion has been re-cast to reflect the amendments tabled to the original motion. I thank colleagues for agreeing to this approach.

Mae hon yn ddadl bwysig. Gan gydnabod y bwlch rhwng y cynnig i drafod trafnidiaeth a gyflwynwyd yn wreiddiol a’n dadl yn y Cyfarfod Llawn yma heddiw, mae’r cynnig wedi ei ailwampio i adlewyrchu’r gwelliannau a gyflwynwyd i’r cynnig gwreiddiol. Diolchaf i’m cyd-aelodau am gytuno i hynny.

Transport is one of our top priorities. There have been three short debates in Plenary on transport issues and we have had extensive discussion in the Environment and Local Government Committee. I believe that there is common ground among Members that transport has a key role in taking forward policies on social inclusion and sustainable development. In this debate, which will no doubt range across all the issues, I will set out the vision that we have discussed in our Committee meetings.

Trafnidiaeth yw un o’n blaenoriaethau pennaf. Cafwyd tair dadl fer mewn Cyfarfodydd Llawn ar faterion trafnidiaeth a bu trafod helaeth ym Mhwyllgor yr Amgylchedd a Llywodraeth Leol. Credaf fod tir cyffredin rhwng yr Aelodau fod i drafnidiaeth rôl allweddol wrth symud polisïau ar gynhwysiant cymdeithasol a datblygu cynaliadwy yn eu blaenau. Yn y ddadl hon, a fydd mae’n siŵr yn cwmpasu’r holl ystyriaethau, byddaf yn cyflwyno’r weledigaeth a drafodasom yng nghyfarfodydd y Pwyllgor.

In essence, we seek to deliver a transport system that is safe, efficient, clean and fair; one that is integrated both within and between different types of transport so that journeys can be planned effectively. The system should be integrated with the land use planning system, with a view to reducing the need to travel and to support development where there is a range of travel choices available. The transport system should take account of the environment, it should support our policies for education, health and wealth creation, and help to make a fairer and more inclusive society.

Yn ei hanfod, yr ydym am sefydlu system drafnidiaeth sydd yn ddiogel, effeithlon, glân a theg; un sydd yn integredig o fewn, a rhwng gwahanol fathau o drafnidiaeth fel y gellir cynllunio teithiau’n effeithiol. Dylai’r system gael ei hintegreiddio gyda’r system cynllunio defnydd tir, i geisio lleihau’r angen i deithio ac i gefnogi datblygiad lle mae amrywiaeth o ddewisiadau teithio ar gael. Dylai’r system drafnidiaeth ystyried yr amgylchedd, dylai gefnogi ein polisïau o safbwynt addysg, iechyd a chreu cyfoeth, a helpu i lunio cymdeithas decach a mwy cynhwysol.

In ‘A Better Wales’, we propose that by 2010, at the latest, much improved public transport and cycle-way provision will result in about one in four of us commuting to work, compared with around one in five today. We have also set our sights on rail carrying a higher proportion of freight.

Yn ‘Gwell Cymru’, cynigiwn y bydd trafnidiaeth gyhoeddus llawer gwell a mwy o lwybrau beicio yn golygu, erbyn 2010 fan hwyraf, mai tua un o bob pedwar ohonom fydd yn cymudo i’r gwaith, o’i gymharu â thua un o bob pump heddiw. Yr ydym hefyd am i’r rheilffyrdd gario cyfran uwch o nwyddau.

The first key theme in ‘A Better Wales’ is delivering better opportunities for learning. Everyone has a right to education when they are young and that opportunity for education and training should be available throughout our lives. However, for many, this opportunity is denied by their circumstances. They are excluded as much as by where they live as by other factors. The availability of public transport can sometimes make a real difference, allowing access to education and training opportunities.

Y thema allweddol gyntaf yn ‘Gwell Cymru’ yw sicrhau gwell cyfleoedd dysgu. Mae gan bawb hawl i addysg pan fônt yn ifanc a dylai’r cyfle hwnnw i gael addysg a hyfforddiant fod ar gael gydol ein hoes. Fodd bynnag, i lawer, mae eu hamgylchiadau yn eu hamddifadu o’r cyfle hwn. Mae’r lle maent yn byw ynddo yn eu cau allan lawn gymaint â ffactorau eraill. Gall trafnidiaeth gyhoeddus wneud gwahaniaeth gwirioneddol weithiau, gan ganiatáu mynediad i gyfleoedd addysg a hyfforddiant.

The second key theme in ‘A Better Wales’ is action to deliver a better, stronger economy. Good transport links bring business closer to the market, expand its pool of labour and can expand its business base. We can make Welsh businesses world players, but, in the majority of cases, businesses will still need to transport their raw materials and the finished product. Developing an integrated transport system, improving transport networks and tackling congestion will bring real savings and tangible benefits.

Yr ail thema allweddol yn ‘Gwell Cymru’ yw gweithredu i sicrhau gwell a chryfach economi. Daw cysylltiadau trafnidiaeth da â busnes yn nes i’r farchnad, mae’n ehangu’r gronfa lafur a gall ehangu ei sylfaen busnes. Gallwn roi busnesau Cymru ar lwyfan y byd, ond, yn y mwyafrif o achosion, bydd angen o hyd i fusnesau gludo eu deunyddiau crai a’r cynnyrch gorffenedig. Bydd datblygu system drafnidiaeth integredig, gan wella’r rhwydweithiau trafnidiaeth a mynd i’r afael â thagfeydd yn dod ag arbedion gwirioneddol a phendant yn ei sgîl.

Brian Hancock spoken in English p. 55

Brian Hancock siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 55

You mentioned the magic words, when you referred to integrated transport and rail and moving passengers with freight. Do you agree that promoting fully integrated transport, with a mix of bus, car and rail, would be an ideal project that could help people? This proposal of integrated transport, from Ebbw Vale to Newport, and Cardiff via Islwyn, would be an ideal project for Objective 1 funding.

Crybwyllasoch y geiriau hud, wrth gyfeirio at integreiddio trafnidiaeth a’r rheilffyrdd a symud teithwyr gyda nwyddau. A ydych chi’n cytuno y bydd hyrwyddo trafnidiaeth sydd wedi ei hintegreiddio’n llwyr, gyda chymysgedd o fysiau, ceir a rheilffyrdd, yn brosiect delfrydol a allai helpu pobl? Byddai’r prosiect hwn ar drafnidiaeth integredig, o Lynebwy i Gasnewydd, a Chaerdydd drwy Islwyn, yn brosiect delfrydol ar gyfer arian Amcan 1.

Peter Law spoken in English p. 55

Peter Law siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 55

I agree, Brian. I am grateful to you for raising that point. It is one of my ambitions—and I know that the Committee supports it—to see the reintroduction of the passenger rail service from Ebbw Vale and Abertillery to Cardiff and Newport and also, to see the reintroduction of the passenger rail service on the Vale of Glamorgan line. We are getting closer to achieving that. Objective 1 funding could be used as far as the Ebbw Vale to Cardiff line is concerned. I welcome that and I am sure that you will pursue that strongly, as it has an impact on your constituency.

Yr wyf yn cytuno, Brian. Yr wyf yn ddiolchgar ichi am godi’r pwynt. Mae’n uchelgais i mi—a gwn fod y Pwyllgor o’i blaid—i weld y gwasanaeth trenau teithwyr o Lynebwy ac Abertyleri i Gaerdydd a Chasnewydd yn cael ei ailsefydlu a, hefyd, gweld ailgyflwyno gwasanaeth i deithwyr ar hyd lein Bro Morgannwg. Yr ydym yn dod yn nes at wireddu hynny. Gellid defnyddio arian Amcan 1 cyn belled ag y mae lein Glynebwy i Gaerdydd yn y cwestiwn. Croesawaf hynny ac yr wyf yn siŵr y byddwch yn mynd ar ei drywydd yn ddygn, gan ei fod yn effeithio ar eich etholaeth.

The third theme for Assembly action concerns better health and wellbeing. Ill-health is often a consequence of a spiral of deprivation. The contribution of a good transport system towards providing accessibility to education, training and jobs is clearly relevant. We are committed to the promotion and enhancement of road safety and speed reduction in conjunction with our integrated transport policy.

Mae’r drydedd thema i’r Cynulliad weithredu arni yn ymwneud â gwell iechyd a lles. Mae afiechyd yn aml yn deillio o amddifadedd cynyddol. Mae cyfraniad system drafnidiaeth dda o ran dod ag addysg, hyfforddiant a swyddi o fewn cyrraedd i bobl yn amlwg yn berthnasol. Yr ydym wedi ymrwymo i hybu a gwella diogelwch y ffyrdd a gostwng cyflymder law yn llaw â’n polisi trafnidiaeth integredig.

Tackling congestion and related pollution through promoting more and better public transport, and promoting provision for cycling and walking as alternatives to the car for short journeys is a key factor in tackling social exclusion, supporting economic growth and creating healthier lifestyles. Transport is only part of the picture, but it is an important part of the overall solution.

Mae mynd i’r afael â thagfeydd a’r llygredd sydd yn deillio o hynny drwy hybu mwy o drafnidiaeth gyhoeddus o safon uwch, a hybu darpariaeth ar gyfer beicio a cherdded fel dewisiadau yn lle defnyddio’r car ar gyfer siwrneiau byr yn ffactor allweddol wrth fynd i’r afael ag allgáu cymdeithasol, hybu twf economaidd a chreu ffyrdd iachach o fyw. Dim ond un rhan o’r darlun yw trafnidiaeth, ond mae’n rhan bwysig o’r ateb drwyddo draw.

We want more and better public transport services to be provided so that buses and trains, particularly, become even more attractive and realistic alternatives to the private car for more journeys. The Transport Bill underlines the importance of bus and rail services—

Yr ydym am weld mwy o wasanaethau trafnidiaeth gyhoeddus, o safon uwch, yn cael eu darparu fel y bydd bysiau a threnau, yn arbennig, yn dod yn fwy deniadol fyth fel dewis realistig yn lle’r car preifat ar gyfer mwy o teithiau. Mae’r Mesur Trafnidiaeth yn tanlinellu pwysigrwydd gwasanaethau bws a thrên—

Geraint Davies spoken in English p. 56

Geraint Davies siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 56

Do you agree, Peter, that as regards integrated transport, it is important to have through-ticketing, so that people can buy one ticket to cover their journeys whether they travel on a bus or train, whichever is most convenient? It is expensive if you swap buses and then travel on a train. Is it not important that you encourage the various co-operatives to come together and draw up an integrated policy of through-ticketing?

Ydych chi’n cytuno, Peter, o ran trafnidiaeth integredig, ei bod hi’n bwysig cael tocynnau o-un-pen-i’r-llall, fel y gall pobl brynu un tocyn ar gyfer eu taith pa un yr ydynt yn teithio ar fws neu drên, pa un bynnag sydd yn fwyaf hwylus? Mae’n ddrud os ydych yn newid bysiau ac yna’n teithio ar drên. Onid yw hi’n bwysig eich bod yn annog y gwahanol gwmnïau cydweithredol i ddod at ei gilydd i lunio polisi integredig i ddarparu tocynnau o-un-pen-i’r-llall?

Peter Law spoken in English p. 56

Peter Law siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 56

That is important and I totally support it. I know that the Committee also holds that view. We must pursue that as part of an integrated transport policy. There are examples, and, in fact, in one of the recent franchise bids that I considered for rail—I am sure that others will say the same—there is a particular reference to through-ticketing throughout Wales. It is the way forward.

Mae hynny’n bwysig ac yr wyf yn ei gefnogi’n llwyr. Gwn fod y Pwyllgor hefyd o’r un farn. Rhaid inni fynd ar ôl hynny fel rhan o bolisi trafnidiaeth integredig. Ceir enghreifftiau ac, yn wir, yn un o’r ceisiadau a ystyriais yn ddiweddar am fasnachfraint reilffordd—yr wyf yn siŵr y bydd eraill yn dweud yr un peth—cyfeirir yn benodol at docynnau o-un-pen-i’r-llall ledled Cymru. Dyma’r ffordd ymlaen.

The Transport Bill will take the agenda for delivering integrated transport forward. Provision includes the establishment of the SRA, placing local authority local transport plans on a statutory basis, the introduction of a wide range of new powers for local authorities, entering into quality partnerships and contracts for buses, and the introduction of road user charging and workplace parking levy schemes.

Bydd y Mesur Trafnidiaeth yn symud yr agenda i wireddu trafnidiaeth integredig yn ei blaen. Mae’r ddarpariaeth yn cynnwys sefydlu’r Awdurdod Rheilffyrdd Strategol, rhoi cynlluniau trafnidiaeth awdurdodau lleol ar sail statudol, cyflwyno ystod eang o bwerau newydd i’r awdurdodau lleol, ymuno mewn partneriaethau answadd a chontractau bysiau, a chyflwyno system o godi tâl ar ddefnyddwyr y ffyrdd a chynlluniau toll barcio yn y gweithle.

These new powers will reinforce the policies and actions already taking place in Wales and will better enable transport to play a direct role in delivering the key themes for action in ‘A Better Wales’.

Bydd y pwerau newydd hyn yn atgyfnerthu’r polisïau a’r camau gweithredu sydd eisoes ar waith yng Nghymru ac yn galluogi trafnidiaeth i chwarae rhan uniongyrchol er gwireddu’r prif themâu i’w rhoi ar waith yn ‘Gwell Cymru’.

The Assembly has already made its views clear and they are reflected in today’s motion. We have approached the Secretary of State for Wales asking for further consideration of the Assembly’s view that it should appoint a representative to the SRA and that the Transport Bill should include an enabling power, allowing the Assembly to establish passenger transport authorities in Wales if it wishes. We have also relayed the Assembly’s views on the operation of the SRA, and the proposal that if a single passenger rail franchise is negotiated for Wales, then the Assembly should have the power to direct the SRA in line with the current provisions in the Bill for the Scottish Executive. We are still pursuing these changes with the Secretary of State. The Select Committee on Welsh Affairs will examine the impact of the Bill on Wales and they are aware of our views on these issues.

Mae’r Cynulliad eisoes wedi datgan ei farn yn glir ac adlewyrchir hynny yn y cynnig heddiw. Yr ydym wedi cysylltu ag Ysgrifennydd Gwladol Cymru yn gofyn am ystyriaeth bellach i farn y Cynulliad y dylai benodi cynrychiolydd i’r Awdurdod Rheilffyrdd Strategol ac y dylai’r Mesur Trafnidiaeth gynnwys grym galluogi, yn caniatáu i’r Cynulliad sefydlu awdurdodau trafnidiaeth teithwyr yng Nghymru os yw’n dymuno. Yr ydym hefyd wedi cyfleu barn y Cynulliad ar weithrediad yr Awdurdod Rheilffyrdd Strategol, a’r cynnig y dylai’r Cynulliad, os cytunir ar un fasnachfraint trenau teithwyr i Gymru, fod â’r grym i gyfarwyddo’r Awdurdod Strategol yn unol â’r darpariaethau cyffredinol yn y Mesur ar gyfer Gweithrediaeth yr Alban. Yr ydym yn dal i geisio’r newidiadau hyn gyda’r Ysgrifennydd Gwladol. Bydd y Pwyllgor Dethol ar Faterion Cymreig yn ystyried effaith y Mesur ar Gymru ac maent yn ymwybodol o’n barn ar y materion hyn.

Putting to one side the formal and statutory basis for our locus, the Assembly should recognise the significant progress achieved already in presenting our case. The shadow SRA, as Members are aware, is already looking at proposals in the new round of replacement rail franchises, and has made clear that it wishes to work closely with the Assembly. An SRA representative has met the Environment and Local Government Committee to hear Members’ views, and there will be regular and constructive dialogue in the future. I particularly welcome the SRA’s intention to consider the needs of Wales on its own merits. A Wales-based franchise, covering services other than the ones provided by First Great Western and Virgin West Coast, would provide a clear identity. If the concept is cost effective and delivers enhanced services, we should support any such bid to the SRA, but we will need to see the details before reaching a final view.

A rhoi sail ffurfiol a statudol ein sefyllfa o’r neilltu, dylai’r Cynulliad gydnabod bod camau sylweddol wedi eu cymryd yn barod o ran cyflwyno ein hachos. Fel y gŵyr yr Aelodau, mae’r Awdurdod Strategol cysgodol eisoes yn edrych ar gynigion yn y cylch newydd o fasnachfreintiau rheilffordd newydd, ac mae wedi dangos yn glir ei fod am weithio’n agos gyda’r Cynulliad. Mae cynrychiolydd yr Awdurdod wedi cwrdd â Phwyllgor yr Amgylchedd a Llywodraeth Leol i glywed barn yr Aelodau, a cheir deialog reolaidd ac adeiladol yn y dyfodol. Croesawaf yn arbennig fwriad yr Awdurdod i ystyried anghenion Cymru ar ei haeddiant ei hun. Byddai masnachfraint i Gymru, yn cynnwys gwasanaethau ar wahân i’r rhai a ddarperir gan First Great Western a Virgin West Coast, yn rhoi hunaniaeth glir. Os yw’r syniad yn gost effeithiol ac yn cynnig gwell gwasanaethau, dylem gefnogi unrhyw gais o’r fath i’r Awdurdod, ond bydd angen inni weld y manylion cyn llunio barn derfynol.

Public transport is especially important in remote parts of Wales, but the numbers of paying passengers and the distances involved mean that the particular needs of rural communities often require less traditional public transport solutions. That is why community transport has a vital part to play in complementing conventional modes in rural Wales, and why we are providing £150,000 over three years to fund the post of a Welsh rural transport worker and a telephone advice line. I am delighted that he is based in Caernarfon, which makes a change. He is doing an excellent job throughout rural Wales. This is a first class initiative and the community transport association can be very pleased of that. In addition, we are also providing £250,000 in the current financial year under the Welsh Rural Transport Grant scheme to support community transport projects tailored to local needs in rural Wales. I am pleased that the Assembly is not the only organisation which recognises the role of community transport, and I welcome the National Lottery Charities Board’s decision to provide £9 million over three years to support community transport projects in Wales.

Mae trafnidiaeth gyhoeddus yn neilltuol o bwysig yn rhannau diarffordd Cymru, ond mae niferoedd y teithwyr sydd yn talu a’r pellterau a deithir yn golygu bod angen atebion trafnidiaeth gyhoeddus llai traddodiadol yn aml i anghenion penodol cymunedau gwledig. Dyna pam y mae gan drafnidiaeth gymunedol ran holl bwysig i’w chwarae i ategu’r dulliau confensiynol yng nghefn gwlad Cymru, a pham yr ydym yn darparu £150,000 dros dair blynedd i gyllido swydd gweithiwr trafnidiaeth wledig i Gymru a llinell ffôn i roi cyngor. Yr wyf wrth fy modd ei fod wedi ei leoli yng Nghaernarfon, am newid. Mae’n gwneud gwaith rhagorol ar hyd a lled Cymru wledig. Mae hwn yn gynllun rhagorol a gall y gymdeithas trafnidiaeth gymunedol ymfalchïo yn hynny. Yn ogystal, yr ydym yn darparu £250,000 yn y flwyddyn ariannol gyfredol dan gynllun Grant Trafnidiaeth Wledig Cymru i gefnogi prosiectau trafnidiaeth gymunedol wedi eu teilwra i anghenion lleol yng nghefn gwlad Cymru. Yr wyf yn falch nad y Cynulliad yw’r unig gorff sydd yn cydnabod rôl trafnidiaeth gymunedol, a chroesawaf benderfyniad Bwrdd Elusennau’r Loteri Genedlaethol i ddarparu £9 miliwn dros dair blynedd i gynorthwyo prosiectau trafnidiaeth gymunedol yng Nghymru.

Good communications are central to our aim of improving the transport network, taking people to and from work, and goods and services to and from markets. Ensuring accessibility for people in communities is only a part of the story. Our transport system also needs to provide efficient and sustainable access for new and growing businesses in Wales. Partnerships have been established between the Assembly, the WDA, freight operators and local authorities to develop quality freight partnerships. The WDA has also commissioned a major new study of the scope for expanding rail freight traffic in mid and north Wales, and another study to examine the opportunity of developing rail freight opportunities on the south Wales line to the west Wales ports.

Mae cysylltiadau da yn ganolog i’n nod o wella’r rhwydwaith trafnidiaeth, yn cludo pobl i’r gwaith ac oddi yno, a nwyddau a gwasanaethau i farchnadoedd ac oddi yno. Dim ond rhan o’r stori yw sicrhau bod y gwasanaethau o fewn cyrraedd i bobl mewn cymunedau. Mae angen hefyd i’n system drafnidiaeth gynnig mynediad effeithlon a chynaliadwy i fusnesau newydd a rhai sydd yn tyfu yng Nghymru. Sefydlwyd partneriaethau rhwng y Cynulliad, y WDA, cwmnïau cludo nwyddau ac awdurdodau lleol i ddatblygu partneriaethau cludo nwyddau o safon. Mae’r WDA hefyd wedi comisiynu astudiaeth fawr newydd ar y posibiliadau o ehangu cludiant nwyddau ar y rheilffyrdd yng nghanolbarth a gogledd Cymru, ac astudiaeth arall i ystyried a ellid datblygu cyfleoedd i gludo nwyddau ar reilffordd de Cymru i borthladdoedd gorllewin Cymru.

We already have success to report in the way that businesses in Wales have found shifting their freight from road to rail to be commercially viable. Over 80 per cent of all bulk freight transported in south Wales is carried by rail. We now need to build on this and extend the range of goods carried, achieve better links with our ports on north and south coasts and encourage inward investment to support rail centred developments that will provide jobs and security to the communities in which they are sited.

Gallwn sôn am lwyddiant yn barod yn y ffordd y mae busnesau yng Nghymru wedi cael trosglwyddo cludiant nwyddau oddi ar y ffyrdd i’r rheilffyrdd yn hyfyw yn fasnachol. Cludir dros 80 y cant o’r holl nwyddau sydd yn cael eu swmp-gludo yn ne Cymru ar y rheilffyrdd. Mae angen bellach inni adeiladu ar hyn ac ehangu ystod y nwyddau a gludir, gwella’r cysylltiadau â’n porthladdoedd ar arfordir y gogledd a’r de ac annog mewnfuddsoddiad ar ddatblygiadau sydd yn dibynnu ar y rheilffyrdd, a fydd yn darparu swyddi a sicrwydd i’r cymunedau lle lleolir hwy.

In developing a prosperous economy in Wales, we must not overlook the role that aviation can play. The UK Government has commissioned a series of regional air services studies to help inform the development of aviation policy for the next 30 years. The Assembly is playing a full part in that exercise, and one of the aims of that policy will be to maximise the contribution that Welsh airports can make to local and regional economies.

Wrth ddatblygu economi llewyrchus yng Nghymru rhaid inni beidio ag anwybyddu’r rhan y gall awyrennau ei chwarae. Mae Llywodraeth y DU wedi comisiynu cyfres o astudiaethau ar wasanaethau hedfan rhanbarthol i helpu i oleuo datblygiad polisi ym maes hedfan dros y 30 mlynedd nesaf. Mae’r Cynulliad yn chwarae rhan lawn yn hynny, ac un nod i’r polisi hwnnw fydd cynyddu i’r eithaf y cyfraniad y gall meysydd awyr Cymru ei wneud tuag at economïau lleol a rhanbarthol.

However, we must recognise that the majority of journeys, by people and freight, will continue to be made by road and by car. The road network is the only transport network available over much of Wales. We are investing in making the best use of the network we have, and we are investing in small scale and safety improvements. Transport policy has moved away from the traditional automatic response to congestion of building more roads, but, in some circumstances, new or improved roads remain the best answer. We need to ensure that traffic does not destroy communities, by improving alignments, introducing traffic calming and, in some instances, by passing communities altogether. We also need to ensure that access to development areas is efficient and effective, taking heavy goods vehicles away from communities wherever possible. I was pleased to announce yesterday that I have agreed the core elements of the trunk road investment programme for the coming financial year. Among the more modest schemes we will undertake are an improvement of the at-grade junction of the A55 at Penmaenmawr, a small bypass of Tafarn y Gelyn on the A494 and the first stage of the improvement of the A483 north of Builth Wells at Bryn Sadwrn.

Fodd bynnag, rhaid inni gydnabod y bydd mwyafrif y teithiau, gan bobl a nwyddau, yn parhau i gael eu gwneud ar y ffyrdd ac yn y car. Y rhwydwaith ffyrdd yw’r unig rwydwaith trafnidiaeth sydd ar gael dros rannau helaeth o Gymru. Yr ydym yn buddsoddi i wneud y defnydd gorau o’r rhwydwaith sydd gennym, ac yr ydym yn buddsoddi mewn gwelliannau bychan a gwelliannau diogelwch. Mae polisi trafnidiaeth wedi symud oddi wrth yr ymateb awtomatig traddodiadol i dagfeydd o adeiladu mwy o ffyrdd ond, dan rai amgylchiadau, ffyrdd newydd neu well ffyrdd yw’r ateb gorau o hyd. Mae angen inni sicrhau nad yw traffig yn dinistrio cymunedau, drwy wella llinell ffyrdd, cyflwyno mesurau i dawelu traffig ac, mewn rhai achosion, drwy osgoi cymunedau yn gyfan gwbl. Mae angen hefyd inni sicrhau bod mynediad i ardaloedd datblygu yn effeithlon ac effeithiol, gan gadw cerbydau nwyddau trwm allan o gymunedau pa le bynnag y mae hynny’n bosibl. Yr oeddwn yn falch o gyhoeddi ddoe fy mod wedi cytuno ar elfennau craidd y rhaglen buddsoddi mewn cefnffyrdd am y flwyddyn ariannol nesaf. Ymysg y cynlluniau gweddol fychain y byddwn yn ymgymryd â hwy mae gwella cyffordd wastad ar yr A55 ym Mhenmaen-mawr, ffordd fechan i osgoi Tafarn y Gelyn ar yr A494 a rhan gyntaf y gwelliant i’r A483 i’r gogledd o Lanfair ym Muallt ym Mryn Sadwrn.

Funding constraints limit my scope to start larger schemes within the next financial year. However, I have managed to identify sufficient funds to enable a start, late in the year, on the A477 Sageston Redberth bypass, which was put on hold pending the outcome of the corridor study into the A40 and A477 west of St Clears. This will be an important scheme bearing in mind the difficulties experienced by people in that area. I know that it has been welcomed warmly by the local community. That study has now reported and confirmed the need to improve the A477 at single carriageway standard. Therefore, I am reinstating the scheme into the short-term programme. The A477 links the east-west corridor in south Wales to the port of Pembroke and Ireland and is a Trans European Road Network route. This scheme will continue the recent efforts to improve road links in south-west Wales. The Carmarthen and Fishguard bypasses have been widely welcomed.

Mae cyfyngiadau cyllid yn cyfyngu ar fy ngallu i ddechrau ar gynlluniau mwy yn y flwyddyn ariannol nesaf. Fodd bynnag, yr wyf wedi llwyddo i ganfod digon o arian i allu dechrau, yn hwyr yn y flwyddyn, ar ffordd osgoi Sageston Redberth ar yr A477, a oedwyd hyd nes y byddai canlyniad yr astudiaeth goridor i’r A40 a’r A477 i’r gorllewin o Sanclêr yn hysbys. Bydd hwn yn gynllun pwysig o gofio’r anawsterau a wynebir gan bobl yr ardal. Gwn fod y gymuned leol yn ei groesawu’n gynnes. Cafwyd adroddiad ar yr astudiaeth erbyn hyn gan gadarnhau’r angen i wella’r A477 i safon ffordd gerbydau un-lôn. Yr wyf, felly, yn ailgynnwys y cynllun yn rhaglen y tymor byr. Mae’r A477 yn cysylltu coridor y dwyrain-gorllewin yn ne Cymru â phorthladd Penfro ac Iwerddon ac mae’n llwybr Rhwydwaith Ffyrdd Traws Ewropeaidd. Bydd y cynllun yn barhad o’r ymdrechion diweddar i wella’r cysylltiadau ffyrdd yn ne-orllewin Cymru. Cafodd ffyrdd osgoi Caerfyrddin ac Abergwaun groeso eang.

I also confirm that the Robeston Wathan bypass is being reinstated into the forward programme as a dual carriageway. I am upset to see that all Members for that area have left the Chamber. These schemes underline our commitment to combating peripherality, improving the network and dealing with safety problems in communities on the main network. I also confirmed the first phase of the £250 million, A465 Heads of Valley dualling scheme and the A470 Dolwyddelan to Pont yr Afanc, Lledr Valley phase 2 scheme would remain in our short-term programme, with contracts planned to be let in 2002. I know that they will be welcomed within areas that have suffered from social exclusion for so long.

Cadarnhaf hefyd fod ffordd osgoi Robeston Wathan yn cael ei hailgynnwys yn rhaglen y dyfodol fel ffordd ddeuol. Mae’n flin gennyf weld fod holl Aelodau’r ardal honno wedi gadael y Siambr. Mae’r cynlluniau hyn yn pwysleisio ein hymrwymiad i beidio â gadael i leoliad ymylol fod yn llestair, i wella’r rhwydwaith a delio â phroblemau diogelwch mewn cymunedau ar y prif rwydwaith. Cadarnheais hefyd y byddai cam cyntaf y cynllun £250 miliwn i ddeuoli ffordd Blaenau’r Cymoedd yr A465 a chynllun cam 2 yr A470 Dolwyddelan i Bont yr Afanc, Dyffryn Lledr yn aros yn ein rhaglen tymor byr, gyda’r bwriad o osod contractau yn 2002. Gwn y cânt eu croesawu mewn ardaloedd sydd wedi eu hallgáu o gymdeithas gyhyd.

Our policy is about providing real travel choices to the people of Wales: choices for the significant number of households in Wales without access to a car—over 32 per cent, according to the April 1991 figures—and supporting the responsible use of cars by those who do. I was pleased that the budget planning round resulted in extra resources for the trunk road programme and the transport grant, which demonstrates recognition of the role improved transport can play in creating a more inclusive society and a stronger economy. I am grateful to the Finance Secretary for her understanding on that matter.

Hanfod ein polisi ni yw rhoi dewisiadau teithio gwirioneddol i bobl Cymru: dewisiadau i’r nifer sylweddol o aelwydydd yng Nghymru nad oes car ar gael iddynt—dros 32 y cant, yn ôl ffigurau Ebrill 1991—a chefnogi defnyddio ceir yn gyfrifol gan y rhai sydd â char ar gael iddynt. Yr oeddwn yn falch i gylch cynllunio’r gyllideb arwain at adnoddau ychwanegol i’r rhaglen gefnffyrdd a’r grant trafnidiaeth, sydd yn gydnabyddiaeth o’r rhan y gall gwell trafnidiaeth ei chwarae o ran creu cymdeithas fwy cynhwysol ac economi cryfach. Yr wyf yn ddiolchgar i’r Ysgrifennydd Cyllid am ei dealltwriaeth o’r mater hwn.

Therefore, I was able to approve a wide range of local authority projects for 2000-01 in my announcement last week. These will support significant progress in delivering integrated transport and contribute to the delivery of the Assembly’s objectives of combating social exclusion and deprivation, promoting better health and quality of life together with providing for a stronger economy. Local authorities have a key role in implementing these policies and their local transport plans will determine the course of future investment.

O’r herwydd, bu modd i mi gymeradwyo ystod eang o brosiectau awdurdodau lleol ar gyfer 2000-01 yn fy nghyhoeddiad yr wythnos diwethaf. Byddant yn fodd i gymryd camau sylweddol tuag at sicrhau trafnidiaeth integredig ac yn cyfrannu at wireddu amcanion y Cynulliad i frwydro yn erbyn allgáu cymdeithasol ac amddifadedd, hyrwyddo gwell iechyd ac ansawdd bywyd ynghyd â darparu ar gyfer economi cryfach. Mae gan awdurdodau lleol rôl allweddol wrth roi’r polisïau hyn ar waith a’u cynlluniau trafnidiaeth hwy fydd yn llywio’r cwrs buddsoddi yn y dyfodol.

I was pleased to announce that I am supporting a start of construction in 2000-01 on the improved access to the Wrexham Industrial Estate scheme in north Wales and the Cwm bypass in south Wales. These two schemes will provide a significant boost for the local economy of both areas. I also announced a preparation cost support for 10 other road schemes. Many of these will be candidates for Objective 1 support from the next financial year to assist with their funding for construction. I am keen to see the A497 Abererch to Llanystumdwy scheme in Gwynedd started once resources are available. This scheme is important to the tourist economy of the area and will also address safety problems. I assure Members that I will pursue every opportunity to gain Objective 1 funding to get these schemes under way as soon as possible because we have an opportunity in front of us which we must not miss.

Yr oeddwn yn falch o gyhoeddi fy mod yn cefnogi dechrau ar y gwaith o adeiladu gwell ffordd fynediad i Ystâd Ddiwydiannol Wrecsam yng ngogledd Cymru a ffordd osgoi Cwm yn ne Cymru yn 2000-01. Bydd y ddau gynllun yn hwb mawr i economi lleol y ddwy ardal. Cyhoeddais hefyd gefnogaeth tuag at gostau paratoi 10 o gynlluniau ffyrdd eraill. Bydd llawer o’r rhain yn ymgeiswyr am gefnogaeth Amcan 1 o’r flwyddyn ariannol nesaf ymlaen i’w cynorthwyo gyda chyllid adeiladu. Yr wyf yn awyddus i weld cynllun yr A497 Aber-erch i Lanystumdwy yn dechrau yng Ngwynedd pan fydd yr adnoddau ar gael. Mae hwn yn gynllun pwysig i economi twristiaeth yr ardal a bydd hefyd yn ymdrin â phroblemau diogelwch. Gallaf sicrhau’r Aelodau yr af ar drywydd pob cyfle i ennill arian Amcan 1 i roi’r cynlluniau hyn ar waith cyn gynted â phosibl oherwydd bod cyfle o’n blaenau na ddylem ei golli ar unrhyw gyfrif.

It is clear that we need to approach transport problems holistically. Therefore, I have decided to concentrate the majority of the transport grant resources, in the next financial year, on integrated transport packages—£22 million is double what was made available in the last settlement. That will go towards supporting 24 projects in the next year. This will enable authorities to proceed at pace with their existing projects and to undertake new schemes. I attempted to ensure that the range of needs across Wales are covered in what I believe was a comprehensive settlement for local authorities.

Mae’n amlwg bod angen inni ymdrin â phroblemau trafnidiaeth yn gyfannol. Yr wyf, felly, wedi penderfynu neilltuo mwyafrif adnoddau’r grant trafnidiaeth, yn y flwyddyn ariannol nesaf, at becynnau trafnidiaeth integredig—mae £22 miliwn yn ddwbl yr hyn a ddarparwyd yn y setliad diwethaf. Bydd hynny’n mynd tuag at gefnogi 24 o brosiectau yn y flwyddyn nesaf. Bydd yn galluogi awdurdodau i fwrw ymlaen yn gyflym gyda’u prosiectau cyfredol ac ymgymryd â chynlluniau newydd. Ceisiais sicrhau bod ystod yr anghenion ar draws Cymru yn cael sylw yn yr hyn sydd, fe gredaf, yn setliad cynhwysfawr i awdurdodau lleol.

As part of my announcement, I was delighted to be able to build on the investment in the successful Safe Routes to School initiative. This has been important in promoting healthier lifestyle habits for school children and in combating urban congestion presented by the school escort trip. I support 14 projects this year with an allocation of £1.4 million, a 75 per cent increase on resources made available under the last settlement.

Fel rhan o’m cyhoeddiad, yr oeddwn wrth fy modd o allu adeiladu ar y buddsoddiad yn y fenter lwyddiannus Ffyrdd Diogel i’r Ysgol. Bu hyn o bwys yn hyrwyddo arferion byw iachach i blant ysgol a threchu’r tagfeydd a geir mewn ardaloedd trefol wrth i bobl hebrwng plant i’r ysgol. Cefnogaf 14 prosiect eleni gyda dyraniad o £1.4 miliwn, cynnydd o 75 y cant ar yr adnoddau a ddarparwyd o dan y setliad diwethaf.

This initiative will play an important part in helping authorities reverse the upward trend in car use for the journey to school. Through transport policies like this we are also helping to improve the nation’s health. Work on safe routes to schools is being co-ordinated with the work that the Assembly’s Health Promotion Division is doing on healthy schools. This is an excellent example of joined-up government bringing together health, education and transport resources to tackle an issue which is important to all three agendas. Transport can, and is making a difference and contributing to delivering our objectives under ‘A Better Wales’.

Bydd y fenter hon yn chwarae rhan bwysig er helpu awdurdodau i wrthdroi’r duedd gynyddol i ddefnyddio ceir ar gyfer y daith i’r ysgol. Drwy bolisïau trafnidiaeth fel hyn yr ydym hefyd yn helpu i wella iechyd y genedl. Mae’r gwaith ar ffyrdd diogel i’r ysgol yn cael ei gydlynu â’r gwaith y mae Adran Hybu Iechyd y Cynulliad yn ei wneud ar ysgolion iach. Dyma enghraifft ragorol o lywodraeth gydgysylltiedig yn dod ag adnoddau iechyd, addysg a thrafnidiaeth ynghyd i ymdrin â mater sydd o bwys i’r tair agenda. Gall trafnidiaeth wneud gwahaniaeth a chyfrannu tuag at gyflawni ein hamcanion dan ‘Gwell Cymru’, ac mae yn gwneud hynny.

Janet Ryder spoken in English p. 63

Janet Ryder siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 63

I welcome the proposals before us today. It shows the extent to which Plaid Cymru’s policies on transport are influencing Assembly policies. The creation of a Passenger Transport Authority for Wales, a single rail franchise for Wales and the appointment by the Assembly of the Welsh representative to the Strategic Rail Authority have all been proposed by Plaid Cymru. Most important is the devolution to the Assembly of all powers and funding necessary to deliver an integrated transport policy in Wales. This is a major shift in policy, something which Plaid Cymru—The Party of Wales has advocated for many years and is to be welcomed. Why is it so important? The management and co-ordination of transport in Wales is inadequate to meet the needs of the country in the new millennium. The co-ordination of such a vital part of the economic and social infrastructure is a sad commentary on the lack of basic management planning of the economy over the last 40 years.

Croesawaf y cynigion ger ein bron heddiw. Mae’n dangos gymaint yw dylanwad polisïau trafnidiaeth Plaid Cymru ar bolisïau’r Cynulliad. Mae creu Awdurdod Trafnidiaeth Teithwyr i Gymru, un fasnachfraint reilffordd i Gymru a bod y Cynulliad i benodi cynrychiolydd Cymru i’r Awdurdod Rheilffyrdd Strategol i gyd wedi eu cynnig gan Blaid Cymru. Yr elfen bwysicaf yw datganoli i’r Cynulliad yr holl bwerau a’r cyllid sydd eu hangen i gyflawni polisi trafnidiaeth integredig yng Nghymru. Mae hyn yn newid mawr mewn polisi, rhywbeth y mae Plaid Cymru—The Party of Wales wedi ei gymell ers blynyddoedd lawer ac mae i’w groesawu. Pam y mae mor bwysig? Mae rheolaeth a chydlyniad trafnidiaeth yng Nghymru yn annigonol i ddiwallu anghenion y wlad yn y mileniwm newydd. Mae cydlyniad rhan mor allweddol o’r seilwaith economaidd a chymdeithasol yn arwydd truenus o’r diffyg cynllunio rheolaeth sylfaenol ar yr economi dros y 40 mlynedd diwethaf.

Transport integration does not exist in Wales. The bus industry is an anarchic free-for-all refereed by the transport commissioners. Decisions on the rail industry are made outside Wales by bodies not accountable to Wales. The road building programme is one of dither and indecision and lacks any sensible long-term strategy. The Welsh Office has been in existence for 40 years but we still cannot organise a decent road link between north and south Wales. No other country in the European Union has such a poorly organised trunk road system.

Nid oes trafnidiaeth integredig yng Nghymru. Ysgarmes anarchaidd gyda’r comisiynwyr trafnidiaeth yn refarî arni yw’r diwydiant bysiau. Penderfynir ar y diwydiant rheilffyrdd y tu allan i Gymru gan gyrff nad ydynt yn atebol i Gymru. Tin-droi a methu â phenderfynu sydd yn nodweddu’r rhaglen adeiladu ffyrdd ac nid oes strategaeth synhwyrol hirdymor. Bu’r Swyddfa Gymreig mewn bodolaeth ers 40 mlynedd ond ni allwn ni drefnu cyswllt ffordd digonol rhwng gogledd a de Cymru o hyd. Nid oes yr un wlad arall yn yr Undeb Ewropeaidd â system gefnffyrdd sydd wedi ei threfnu mor wael.

The Assembly, with a small amount of common sense, can make a significant difference. The use of public transport in Wales is in decline or stagnating because transport planning is poor. Given some basic co-ordination and simple planning, revenues will increase and pay for improvements.

Gyda dogn bychan o synnwyr cyffredin, gall y Cynulliad wneud gwahaniaeth sylweddol. Mae’r defnydd o drafnidiaeth gyhoeddus yng Nghymru yn dirywio neu’n ddigyfnewid am fod y drafnidiaeth yn cael ei chynllunio’n wael. Gydag ychydig o gydlynu sylfaenol a chynllunio syml, bydd y refeniw’n cynyddu ac yn talu am welliannau.

The Transport Bill by the end of its progress through Parliament must sufficiently provide for the needs of Wales to enable us to achieve an integrated transport policy. The objectives that we would set for this would be the protection of the environment and improvement in safety; providing adequate communications with markets in Britain and Europe; strengthening national unity and the Welsh economy through internal connections, particularly between north and south; and the integration of different transport modes, favouring public transport and limiting road traffic. A fully integrated policy must consider four main relationships: between transport and land use; between public and private transport; between motorised and non-motorised—walking and cycling—forms of transport; and within public transport itself.

Erbyn i’r Mesur Trafnidiaeth ddod i ben ei daith drwy’r Senedd rhaid iddo ddarparu’n ddigonol ar gyfer anghenion Cymru i’n galluogi i lunio polisi trafnidiaeth integredig. Yr amcanion y byddem ni’n eu pennu ar gyfer hyn fyddai amddiffyn yr amgylchedd a gwella diogelwch; darparu cysylltiadau digonol â marchnadoedd ym Mhrydain ac Ewrop; cryfhau undod cenedlaethol ac economi Cymru drwy gysylltiadau mewnol, yn enwedig rhwng y gogledd a’r de; ac integreiddio gwahanol ddulliau cludiant, gan ffafrio trafnidiaeth gyhoeddus a chyfyngu ar draffig ar y ffyrdd. Bydd yn rhaid i bolisi sydd wedi ei integreiddio’n llawn ystyried pedair prif berthynas: rhwng trafnidiaeth a defnydd tir; rhwng trafnidiaeth gyhoeddus a phreifat; rhwng dulliau trafnidiaeth â motor a heb fotor—cerdded a beicio; ac o fewn trafnidiaeth gyhoeddus ei hun.

There is also the crucial task of shifting the emphasis onto public transport to encourage people to change from using the car. To achieve this we must reduce train journey times, improve bus services and their quality, improve traffic management, giving buses a priority and invest in waiting facilities, interchanges and information provision. To achieve an integrated transport policy, we must also see integration between investment in road and rail—infrastructure and rolling stock; buses, through terminals and vehicles; public transport interchanges; pedestrian walking and cycling facilities; physical and fiscal traffic management and public transport fare and service levels.

Tasg holl bwysig arall yw newid y pwyslais fel ei fod ar drafnidiaeth gyhoeddus, i annog pobl i newid o ddefnyddio’r car. I gyflawni hyn rhaid inni gwtogi’r amseroedd teithio trenau, gwella gwasanaethau bysiau a’u hansawdd, gwella’r rheolaeth ar draffig, rhoi blaenoriaeth i fysiau a buddsoddi mewn cyfleusterau disgwyl, cyfnewidfeydd a darparu gwybodaeth. Er mwyn gwireddu polisi trafnidiaeth integredig, rhaid wrth integreiddio hefyd rhwng buddsoddi mewn ffyrdd a rheilffyrdd—seilwaith a threnau; bysiau, gorsafoedd drwodd a cherbydau; cyfnewidfeydd trafnidiaeth gyhoeddus; cyfleusterau cerdded a beicio; rheolaeth ffisegol ac ariannol dros draffig a phrisiau tocynnau a lefelau gwasanaeth trafnidiaeth gyhoeddus.

For the integration of spending, we must have a single policy and budgetary authority: a co-ordinating body for all modes of transport, and operational level co-ordinating bodies to achieve seamless interchange between modes, within modes, between modes and land use and human activities.

Er mwyn integreiddio’r gwariant, rhaid wrth un awdurdod polisi a chyllid: corff cydlynu ar gyfer pob dull trafnidiaeth, a chyrff cydlynu ar lefel weithredol i sicrhau cyfnewid di-dor rhwng dulliau trafnidiaeth, o fewn dulliau, rhwng dulliau a defnydd tir a gweithgareddau dynol.

The Assembly does not have the necessary powers to achieve this. That is why further functions must be devolved to the Assembly to enable it to implement policy. There must also be changes to the Transport Bill. A small amendment to section 9 of the Transport Act 1968 to enable the Assembly to become a passenger transport authority is needed. This would work with local authorities, through regional boards, to promote integrated transport. Along with this, Wales’s share of train service subsidy—about £100 million—should be transferred to the Assembly’s budget to ensure that these moneys are spent in Wales. The proposal before us incorporates this. There must also be a decision to design a franchise of all rail services in Wales, apart from the Intercity routes, based on Wales and the marches.

Nid oes gan y Cynulliad y pwerau angenrheidiol i gyflawni hyn. Dyna pam y mae’n rhaid datganoli swyddogaethau pellach i’r Cynulliad i’w alluogi i roi polisïau ar waith. Rhaid hefyd newid y Mesur Trafnidiaeth. Mae angen gwelliant bach i adran 9 Deddf Drafnidiaeth 1968 i alluogi’r Cynulliad i ddod yn awdurdod trafnidiaeth teithwyr. Byddai’n gweithio gyda’r awdurdodau lleol, drwy fyrddau rhanbarthol, i hyrwyddo trafnidiaeth integredig. Ynghyd â hyn, dylid trosglwyddo cyfran Cymru o gymhorthdal y gwasanaeth trenau—tua £100 miliwn—i gyllideb y Cynulliad i sicrhau bod yr arian yn cael ei wario yng Nghymru. Mae’r cynnig ger ein bron yn ymgorffori hyn. Rhaid penderfynu hefyd i gynllunio masnachfraint i holl wasanaethau rheilffordd Cymru, ar wahân i’r llwybrau Intercity, ar sail Cymru a’r gororau.

There will be difficult choices to make in any transport policy. We must consider how best to create a fast connection between north and south Wales; how to improve communications between the south Wales Valleys and the capital city; how to improve connections with the west and how to improve services from Wales to major local destinations in England such as Manchester, Birmingham and Bristol. We must also change the culture of car users by persuading them to convert to public transport and that using the bus, cycling or walking is fashionable. It also requires investment in good quality, high frequency public transport, supported by priority schemes on bus routes, good quality, comfortable interchanges from car, rail and bus. The experience of other European member states indicates a need to invest in public transport before introducing parking restrictions and road pricing. The aim of local transport plans must be to achieve road traffic reduction. However, it is unacceptable for Assembly civil servants to produce a report that simply copies the Department of the Environment, Transport and the Regions.

Mewn unrhyw bolisi trafnidiaeth, rhaid gwneud penderfyniadau anodd. Rhaid inni ystyried y ffordd orau o greu cyswllt cyflym rhwng gogledd a de Cymru; sut mae gwella’r cysylltiadau rhwng Cymoedd de Cymru a’r brifddinas; sut mae gwella cysylltiadau â’r gorllewin a sut mae gwella’r gwasanaethau o Gymru i’r prif gyrchfannau lleol yn Lloegr megis Manceinion, Birmingham a Bryste. Rhaid inni hefyd newid meddylfryd y rhai sydd yn defnyddio’r car drwy eu perswadio i newid i drafnidiaeth gyhoeddus a bod defnyddio’r bws, beicio neu gerdded yn ffasiynol. Rhaid hefyd wrth fuddsoddiad mewn trafnidiaeth gyhoeddus o ansawdd uchel, sydd yn rhedeg yn fynych, gyda chynlluniau blaenoriaeth ar lwybrau bysiau a chyfnewidfeydd cyfforddus, o ansawdd uchel rhwng ceir, trenau a bysiau. Dengys profiad aelod wladwriaethau eraill Ewrop fod angen buddsoddi mewn trafnidiaeth gyhoeddus cyn cyflwyno cyfyngiadau parcio a thollau ffordd. Rhaid sicrhau mai lleihau’r traffig ar y ffyrdd yw nod sylfaenol cynlluniau trafnidiaeth leol. Fodd bynnag, nid yw’n dderbyniol i weision sifil y Cynulliad gynhyrchu adroddiad sydd yn gwneud dim ond efelychu Adran yr Amgylchedd, Trafnidiaeth a’r Rhanbarthau.

We must remember however, that congestion remains mainly an urban problem and because of the rural nature of much of Wales, we must sensitively create a core road network, not just a north and south link, but a figure of eight network with good north-south and east-west links to markets and sources. We need good links from the centre of Wales, either to the A40, A48, M4 corridor or the A55 expressway. This will assist movement into and out of areas such as Ceredigion, north Carmarthenshire and Gwynedd. However, the emphasis must be put on the development of public transport. Where rail transport is unavailable in the short term, developing high quality bus services would achieve the desired levels of transfer from car to public transport. This should be encouraged and should be part of the all-Wales rail franchise put forward to the Strategic Rail Authority.

Rhaid inni gofio, fodd bynnag, mai problem drefol yw tagfeydd ar y cyfan a chan fod cymaint o Gymru yn wledig ei natur, rhaid inni greu rhwydwaith ffyrdd craidd mewn modd sensitif, nid dim ond cyswllt rhwng gogledd a de, ond rhwydwaith ar ffurf ffigur wyth gyda chysylltiadau gogledd-de a dwyrain-gorllewin da â chanolfannau a ffynonellau. Mae angen cysylltiadau da arnom o ganol Cymru, un ai i’r A40, yr A48, coridor yr M4 neu wibffordd yr A55. Bydd hyn yn cynorthwyo symudiadau i mewn ac allan o ardaloedd fel Ceredigion, gogledd Sir Gaerfyrddin a Gwynedd. Fodd bynnag, rhaid rhoi’r pwyslais ar ddatblygu trafnidiaeth gyhoeddus. Lle nad oes trafnidiaeth reilffordd ar gael yn y tymor byr, byddai datblygu gwasanaethau bws o ansawdd uchel yn cyflawni’r lefelau gofynnol o drosglwyddo o’r car i drafnidiaeth gyhoeddus. Dylid annog hyn a dylai fod yn rhan o’r fasnachfraint reilffordd Cymru-gyfan a gyflwynir i’r Awdurdod Rheilffyrdd Strategol.

Recent proposals for an improved and integrated rail coach system for Wales are a start. However, with European support it can go further. The Valleys lines can be converted to electrified light rail, as in Manchester, Sheffield, Birmingham and many other places. Cardiff Bay could be introduced into this network. Electrified rail extensions can be made from Ebbw Vale to Newport, Swansea, along the mainline and the Vale of Glamorgan to give the south Wales conurbation the best rail system in Britain. The use of European funding on the Dublin rail system is an example.

Mae’r cynigion diweddar am system integredig o drenau a bysiau i Gymru yn fan gychwyn. Fodd bynnag, gyda chefnogaeth o Ewrop gall fynd ymhellach. Gellir trosi rheilffyrdd y Cymoedd yn rheilffyrdd ysgafn wedi eu trydaneiddio, fel ym Manceinion, Sheffield, Birmingham a llawer lle arall. Gellid cynnwys Bae Caerdydd yn y rhwydwaith. Gellir ymestyn rheilffyrdd wedi’u trydaneiddio o Lynebwy i Gasnewydd, Abertawe, ar hyd y brif lein a Bro Morgannwg i roi i glymdrefi de Cymru y system reilffyrdd orau ym Mhrydain. Mae defnyddio nawdd Ewropeaidd ar system reilffyrdd Dulyn yn enghraifft.

Linked to this, the passenger transport authority could franchise bus routes to avoid useless duplication, impose higher standards and ensure through ticketing with all bus and rail services. Bus companies would bid to run transport in Wales for a defined time only. The franchise would include the support of marginal and experimental services as part of the franchise commitment, as happens now with rail companies. A similar system operates successfully in London. European money could be used to improve bus information for all passengers, to build bus-only networks, to double or treble peak time capacity and to pay for new or improved transport interchanges.

Ynghlwm wrth hyn, gallai’r awdurdod trafnidiaeth teithwyr fasnachfreinio llwybrau bysiau i osgoi dyblygu di-fudd, gorfodi safonau uwch a sicrhau tocynnau o-un-pen-i’r-llall gyda’r holl wasanaethau bws a thrên. Byddai cwmnïau bysiau yn gwneud cais i gynnal trafnidiaeth yng Nghymru am gyfnod penodol yn unig. Byddai’r fasnachfraint yn cynnwys cynnal gwasanaethau ymylol ac arbrofol fel rhan o ymrwymiad y fasnachfraint, fel sydd yn digwydd yn awr gyda chwmnïau rheilffordd. Mae system debyg yn gweithio’n llwyddiannus yn Llundain. Gellid defnyddio arian Ewropeaidd i wella gwybodaeth am fysiau i’r holl deithwyr, i greu rhwydweithiau bysiau-yn-unig, i ddyblu neu dreblu’r maint y gellir ei gludo ar adegau brig ac i dalu am gyfnewidfeydd trafnidiaeth newydd neu well.

If Wales is to compete globally in the next 20 years, it needs a high quality public transport system to make the country more attractive for inward investors and to improve the return for Welsh business. Good quality transport is fundamental to the success of the Welsh economy and is one of the areas where the Assembly can make a difference.

Os yw Cymru i gystadlu’n fyd-eang yn yr 20 mlynedd nesaf, mae arni angen system drafnidiaeth gyhoeddus o ansawdd uchel i wneud y wlad yn fwy deniadol i fewnfuddsoddwyr ac i wella’r enillion i fusnesau Cymru. Mae trafnidiaeth o ansawdd da yn hanfodol i lwyddiant economi Cymru ac mae’n un maes lle gall y Cynulliad wneud gwahaniaeth.

William Graham spoken in English p. 67

William Graham siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 67

I give you the compliments and apologies of our transport spokesman. Unfortunately, he is unavoidably detained. The integrated transport system is a laudable concept. Every country should offer its citizens the opportunity to use travel networks that are modern, efficient and effective. Variety is of immense importance and citizens should have the choice of using public or private transport that is of equal quality. We greatly welcome the major programme of road improvements that was recently announced and we will support further necessary schemes.

Rhoddaf ichi gyfarchion ac ymddiheuriadau ein llefarydd trafnidiaeth. Yn anffodus, mae amgylchiadau tu hwnt i’w reolaeth wedi ei ddal yn ôl. Mae system drafnidiaeth integredig yn syniad canmoladwy. Dylai pob gwlad gynnig y cyfle i’w dinasyddion ddefnyddio rhwydweithiau teithio sydd yn fodern, effeithlon ac effeithiol. Mae amrywiaeth yn eithriadol o bwysig a dylai dinasyddion allu dewis defnyddio trafnidiaeth gyhoeddus neu breifat o ansawdd cydradd. Mawr groesawn y rhaglen sylweddol o welliannau ffordd a gyhoeddwyd yn ddiweddar a byddwn yn cefnogi cynlluniau eraill angenrheidiol.

However, we view with some trepidation the results of the Environment and Local Government Committee’s discussions this morning. Many of the proposals in the motion before us today will only serve to punish car users. This may achieve equality but, as a result of these proposals, the car will become as unattractive and inefficient as public transport is at present. Integrated transport will, apparently, only work if cars are priced from the roads. Public transport would then mysteriously and miraculously become a suitable alternative form of carriage.

Fodd bynnag, gyda pheth anesmwythder yr ystyriwn ganlyniadau trafodaethau’r Pwyllgor yr Amgylchedd a Llywodraeth Leol y bore yma. Ni fydd llawer o’r awgrymiadau yn y cynnig ger ein bron heddiw yn gwneud dim ond cosbi defnyddwyr ceir. Efallai y ceir cydraddoldeb drwy hynny ond, o ganlyniad i’r cynigion hyn, bydd y car yn mynd mor anneniadol ac aneffeithiol ag yw trafnidiaeth gyhoeddus ar hyn o bryd. Yn ôl pob golwg, dim ond os caiff ceir eu prisio oddi ar y ffyrdd y gwnaiff trafnidiaeth integredig weithio. Deuai trafnidiaeth gyhoeddus wedyn mewn rhyw ffordd ddirgel a gwyrthiol yn ddull amgen addas o gludiant.

We place considerable emphasis on the third clause in the motion and look forward to further clarification by the Assembly Secretary on how it will be implemented. It is difficult to explain the logic of road charging in the congested areas of Wales. Congestion is caused when the demand on an arterial route is too high. The obvious solution is to provide alternatives in terms of modes of transport or roads. Road charging would simply increase the price of the only viable option for many people. I doubt that charging commuters to sit in traffic jams will be a politically expedient measure. Road charging need not only apply to towns and cities. A question mark sits over the situation in rural areas, which are neither attacked nor protected by the White Paper, ‘Transporting Wales into the Future’. Road charging in areas where there is no public transport infrastructure would further serve to unravel this ill-conceived programme.

Rhoddwn gryn bwyslais ar drydydd cymal y cynnig ac edrychwn ymlaen at eglurhad pellach gan Ysgrifennydd y Cynulliad ar sut y’i rhoddir ar waith. Mae’n anodd egluro rhesymeg codi tâl am ddefnyddio’r ffyrdd yn ardaloedd prysuraf Cymru. Achosir tagfeydd pan fo’r galw ar ffordd brifwythiennol yn rhy uchel. Yr ateb amlwg yw darparu dewisiadau amgen o ran dulliau trafnidiaeth neu ffyrdd. Ni fyddai codi tâl am ddefnyddio’r ffyrdd yn gwneud dim ond codi pris yr unig ddewis hyfyw i lawer o bobl. Mae’n amheus gennyf a fydd codi ar gymudwyr i eistedd mewn tagfeydd traffig yn fesur doeth yn wleidyddol. Nid dim ond mewn trefi a dinasoedd y codir tâl o reidrwydd. Mae amheuaeth ynghylch y sefyllfa mewn ardaloedd gwledig, nad ymosodir arnynt na’u hamddiffyn yn y Papur Gwyn, ‘Cludo Cymru i Mewn i’r Dyfodol’. Ni fyddai codi tâl mewn ardaloedd lle nad oes seilwaith trafnidiaeth gyhoeddus ond yn chwalu’r rhaglen annoeth hon ymhellach.

We do not need to discuss plans and proposals to demonstrate the Labour Government’s contempt for the road user. Since May 1997, the level of tax on fuel has increased at an alarming rate. Regrettably, this has not been matched by investment in road infrastructure or public transport.

Nid oes angen inni drafod cynlluniau a chynigion i ddangos dirmyg y Llywodraeth Lafur tuag at ddefnyddwyr y ffordd. Er mis Mai 1997, mae lefel y dreth ar danwydd wedi cynyddu’n frawychus. Yn anffodus, ni fu buddsoddiad cyfatebol yn y seilwaith ffyrdd na thrafnidiaeth gyhoeddus.

The Strategic Rail Authority must focus on the requirements and opinions of Wales. Since Harold Wilson’s Labour Government implemented Dr Beeching’s recommendations, Welsh rail links run almost entirely from east to west, which raises pertinent questions about the need for a Welsh strategic rail authority. However, it seems that the Assembly has no power to appoint the Welsh representative to the SRA. Does this mean that the Government does not take the SRA seriously, or does it simply have a low opinion of our Assembly? We strongly urge that at least one member be appointed by the Assembly. What purpose does the Assembly have if not to further the cause of Wales and choose the representatives of our principality? This is yet another example of Welsh voices being ignored by Millbank and Westminster.

Rhaid i’r Awdurdod Rheilffyrdd Strategol ganolbwyntio ar ofynion a barn Cymru. Ers i Lywodraeth Lafur Harold Wilson roi argymhellion Dr Beeching ar waith, mae cysylltiadau rheilffordd Cymru yn rhedeg bron yn gyfan gwbl o’r dwyrain i’r gorllewin, sydd yn codi cwestiynau perthnasol am yr angen am awdurdod rheilffyrdd strategol i Gymru. Fodd bynnag, ymddengys nad oes gan y Cynulliad y grym i benodi’r cynrychiolydd o Gymru i’r Awdurdod. A yw hyn yn golygu nad yw’r Llywodraeth yn cymryd yr Awdurdod o ddifrif, ynteu ai barn isel sydd ganddi o’n Cynulliad? Anogwn yn gryf y penodir o leiaf un aelod gan y Cynulliad. Pa ddiben sydd i’r Cynulliad onid yw i hybu achos Cymru a dewis cynrychiolwyr ein tywysogaeth? Dyma enghraifft arall eto o Millbank a San Steffan yn anwybyddu lleisiau Cymru.

I welcome the commitment given to build upon the last Government’s excellent record in traffic accident reduction. Over the period 1985 to 1996, there was a 51 per cent reduction in the number of people injured on Welsh roads. If this commitment is to be matched by action, it will mean introducing tough measures to reduce speed limits on dangerous roads, to monitor and punish speeding motorists and to continue to develop a sustainable anti-drink-and-drive policy, together with an effective drug testing scheme, which is currently unavailable.

Croesawaf yr addewid a roddwyd i adeiladu ar record ragorol y Llywodraeth ddiwethaf yn gostwng lefel damweiniau traffig. Dros y cyfnod 1985 i 1996, cafwyd gostyngiad o 51 y cant yn nifer y bobl a anafwyd ar ffyrdd Cymru. Os bwriedir gweithredu yn unol â’r addewid hwn, bydd yn golygu cyflwyno mesurau llym i ostwng cyfyngiadau cyflymder ar ffyrdd peryglus, monitro a chosbi modurwyr sydd yn goryrru a pharhau i ddatblygu polisi cynaliadwy yn erbyn yfed a gyrru, ynghyd â chynllun effeithiol i brofi am gyffuriau, nad yw ar gael yn awr.

A transport policy linked with planning policy remains a recipe for chaos. Reducing car parking spaces through planning policy and excessive pricing will allow the same problems that have occurred at a major tourist attraction centre—namely the Dome—which is inaccessible by private car, except by chauffeured limousine.

Mae polisi trafnidiaeth sydd ynghlwm wrth bolisi cynllunio yn parhau i fod yn ffordd sicr o gawlio pethau. Bydd lleihau nifer y lleoedd parcio drwy bolisïau cynllunio a phrisiau rhy uchel yn caniatáu’r un problemau ag sydd wedi digwydd mewn atyniad twristiaeth mawr—sef y Gromen—na ellir ei gyrraedd mewn car preifat, ac eithrio mewn limwsîn â chauffeur.

As a party, we are disappointed by the half-thought-out measures before us. Motorists already pay far too much in taxation and should be spared further taxation increases until there are significant improvements in public transport. We are disgusted that the car is taxed as a luxury when, for so many people, it is a necessity. In the rural areas of Wales, the car remains the only suitable means of transport.

Fel plaid, yr ydym yn siomedig yn y polisïau o’n blaenau sydd ag ôl diffyg meddwl arnynt. Mae modurwyr eisoes yn talu llawer gormod o dreth a dylid eu harbed rhag codiadau treth pellach hyd nes y ceir gwelliannau sylweddol mewn trafnidiaeth gyhoeddus. Yr ydym yn gwaredu bod y car yn cael ei drethu fel moethusrwydd pan fo, i gynifer o bobl, yn anghenraid. Yn ardaloedd gwledig Cymru, y car yw’r unig ddull addas o drafnidiaeth o hyd.

The Welsh Conservative Party does not believe that there will be any significant improvement in public transport in Wales. When Cardiff has an undisciplined and poorly connected public transport network, what hope is there for Lampeter, Denbigh or Builth Wells once cars have been priced from our roads?

Nid yw Plaid Geidwadol Cymru yn credu y ceir unrhyw welliant sylweddol mewn trafnidiaeth gyhoeddus yng Nghymru. Pan fo Caerdydd â rhwydwaith trafnidiaeth gyhoeddus ac iddo ddiffyg disgyblaeth a chysylltiadau gwael, pa obaith sydd yna i Lanbedr Pont Steffan, Dinbych neu Lanfair ym Muallt ar ôl i geir gael eu prisio oddi ar ein ffyrdd?

Peter Black spoken in English p. 69

Peter Black siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 69

The reform of the Welsh transport system is perhaps one of the biggest challenges facing the national Assembly. Those of us who serve on the Environment and Local Government Committee have been immersed in the problem from day one when three thick volumes landed on our desks, followed by more booklets, discussion papers, missives and submissions. That disabused any notions I had that we were a paperless Assembly.

Efallai mai diwygio’r system drafnidiaeth yw un o’r sialensiau mwyaf sydd yn wynebu’r Cynulliad Cenedlaethol. Mae’r rheini ohonom sydd yn gwasanaethu ar Bwyllgor yr Amgylchedd a Llywodraeth Leol wedi bod at ein clustiau yn y broblem o’r diwrnod cyntaf pan laniodd tair cyfrol drwchus ar ein desgiau, gyda mwy o lyfrynnau, papurau trafod, llythyrau swyddogol a chyflwyniadau yn eu sgîl. Dadrithiodd hynny fi rhag unrhyw syniad oedd gennyf ein bod yn Gynulliad di-bapur.

I am pleased that the motion has been revised to take account of all the amendments that were submitted to the original. That is a clear sign that we are to be more inclusive and seek a common policy platform on which to take this Assembly forward.

Yr wyf yn falch bod y cynnig wedi ei ddiwygio i gydnabod yr holl welliannau a gyflwynwyd i’r gwreiddiol. Mae hynny’n arwydd clir ein bod yn mynd i fod yn fwy cynhwysol a cheisio llwyfan polisi cyffredin er mwyn symud y Cynulliad hwn yn ei flaen.

For those who think that an integrated transport policy is anti-car, we must make it clear that no realistic integrated transport policy can afford to be anti-car if it is to gain universal acceptance or work properly. We need to work with car owners to persuade them, not direct them, to cut their car journeys.

I’r rhai sydd yn meddwl bod polisi trafnidiaeth integredig yn elyniaethus i’r car, rhaid inni ei gwneud yn glir na all polisi trafnidiaeth integredig realistig fforddio bod yn elyniaethus at y car os yw i gael ei dderbyn yn gyffredinol neu i weithio’n iawn. Mae angen inni weithio gyda pherchenogion ceir i’w perswadio, nid i’w cyfarwyddo, i ddefnyddio llai ar eu ceir.

Everybody agrees that the transport system in Wales is inadequate and underfunded. Whether we feel that there should be better public transport or that the Government should be offering more help to car drivers, I am sure that we all agree that congestion is a problem, that prices are too high and that it is impossible to get around Wales easily.

Mae pawb yn cytuno bod y system drafnidiaeth yng Nghymru yn annigonol a heb gyllid digonol. Pa un yr ydym yn teimlo y dylai fod yna well trafnidiaeth gyhoeddus neu y dylai’r Llywodraeth fod yn cynnig mwy o help i yrwyr ceir, yr wyf yn siŵr bod pawb ohonom yn cytuno bod tagfeydd yn broblem, bod prisiau’n rhy uchel a’i bod yn amhosibl teithio o amgylch Cymru yn hawdd.

Improving public transport services alone is not enough to encourage people to use public transport. Services need to be integrated so that a complete journey can be made by public transport. If trains do not meet buses and buses miss aeroplanes, the service will not be used. Proper integration is the key to getting people off the roads and onto public transport. A reliable integrated public transport network is also the key to improving social inclusion, the environment, the economy and quality of life.

Nid yw gwella gwasanaethau trafnidiaeth gyhoeddus ynddo’i hun yn ddigon i annog pobl i ddefnyddio trafnidiaeth gyhoeddus. Mae angen integreiddio gwasanaethau fel y gellir gwneud taith gyfan ar drafnidiaeth gyhoeddus. Os nad yw trenau’n cwrdd â bysiau a bod bysiau’n methu awyrennau, ni ddefnyddir y gwasanaeth. Integreiddio manwl yw’r allwedd i gael pobl oddi ar y ffyrdd ac ar drafnidiaeth gyhoeddus. Rhwydwaith trafnidiaeth gyhoeddus integredig a dibynadwy yw’r allwedd hefyd i wella cynhwysiant cymdeithasol, yr amgylchedd, yr economi ac ansawdd bywyd.

One of the most important problems of the public transport network in Wales is the lack of north-south links. At the moment, it is quicker and easier to get from Cardiff to London than from Cardiff to north Wales. At the start of the twenty-first century, this is a ridiculous situation. Once we have received the local transport plans from Welsh councils, we must develop national traffic reduction targets and encourage green transport. An important part of this is providing a suitable alternative to car travel. That does not just mean providing a bus, but providing a bus that goes where people want to go at a time when they want to travel, and looking at the journey as a whole.

Un o broblemau pwysicaf y rhwydwaith trafnidiaeth gyhoeddus yng Nghymru yw’r diffyg cysylltiadau rhwng y gogledd a’r de. Ar hyn o bryd, mae’n gyflymach ac yn haws mynd o Gaerdydd i Lundain nag o Gaerdydd i ogledd Cymru. Ar ddechrau’n unfed ganrif ar hugain, mae hon yn sefyllfa chwerthinllyd. Cyn gynted ag y derbyniwn y cynlluniau trafnidiaeth leol oddi wrth gynghorau Cymru, rhaid inni ddatblygu targedau cenedlaethol ar leihau traffig ac annog trafnidiaeth werdd. Mae darparu dewis addas yn lle teithio yn y car yn rhan bwysig o hyn. Nid dim ond darparu bws a olygir gan hynny, ond darparu bws sydd yn mynd i’r man y mae pobl am fynd iddo ar adeg pan fônt am deithio, ac edrych ar y daith yn ei chyfanrwydd.

It is important that we lobby hard for the Assembly to be able to implement transport policies in line with its political programme and to be allowed to take control over distributing public money away from bodies in Wales. To undertake those responsibilities, we must get necessary funds from the UK Government. However, there must not be a transfer of money from local authorities to the Assembly. Councils are already strapped for cash to deal with local transport problems. That has to be borne in mind if, or when, we set up a passenger transport authority. There must be a partnership. Ideally, developments should be funded by new money rather than money that is recycled within Wales.

Mae’n bwysig ein bod yn lobïo’n gryf am i’r Cynulliad allu gweithredu polisïau trafnidiaeth sydd yn unol â’i raglen wleidyddol a’i fod yn cael cymryd drosodd y cyfrifoldeb am ddosbarthu arian cyhoeddus oddi wrth gyrff yng Nghymru. I ymgymryd â’r cyfrifoldebau hyn, rhaid inni gael y cyllid angenrheidiol gan Lywodraeth y DU. Fodd bynnag, rhaid peidio â throsglwyddo arian oddi wrth gynghorau lleol i’r Cynulliad. Mae’r cynghorau eisoes yn brin o arian i ddelio â phroblemau trafnidiaeth lleol. Rhaid cofio hynny os, neu pan, y sefydlwn ni awdurdod trafnidiaeth teithwyr. Rhaid wrth bartneriaeth. Yn ddelfrydol, dylid cyllido datblygiadau drwy arian newydd yn hytrach nag arian sydd yn cael ei ailgylchu yng Nghymru.

The Liberal Democrats have long worked to encourage integrated and sustainable forms of transport. In William Graham’s earlier speech, I noted that he believes that we are pursuing anti-car policies. We must not advocate ‘carmageddon’: a nightmare scenario involving an ever-increasing circle of congestion, new roads and more congestion that is unsustainable, even in the short term. That explains the decision of the majority of the Environment and Local Government Committee this morning on the M4 extension near Newport.

Mae’r Democratiaid Rhyddfrydol wedi gweithio’n hir i annog dulliau trafnidiaeth integredig a chynaliadwy. Yn araith William Graham yn gynharach, nodais ei fod ef yn credu ein bod yn mynd ar ôl polisïau sydd yn elyniaethus i’r car. Rhaid peidio ag annog ‘carmagedon’: sefyllfa hunllefus gyda chylch dieflig o dagfeydd, ffyrdd newydd a mwy o dagfeydd, nad yw’n gynaliadwy hyd yn oed yn y tymor byr. Mae hynny’n egluro penderfyniad y mwyafrif ar Bwyllgor yr Amgylchedd a Llywodraeth Leol y bore yma ar estyniad yr M4 ger Casnewydd.

We sympathise with the suggestion that public transport should be in place to provide an alternative to cars before pricing them off the road. The best way forward is to cut road tax rather than tax on fuel to benefit those who need to use their cars because they have no alternative. That would discourage those who use their cars for long and short distance travel.

Cydymdeimlwn â’r awgrym y dylid sefydlu trafnidiaeth gyhoeddus fel dewis amgen yn lle ceir cyn eu prisio oddi ar y ffyrdd. Y ffordd orau ymlaen yw torri treth car yn hytrach na’r dreth ar danwydd er budd y rheini sydd yn defnyddio’u ceir am nad oes dewis arall ar gael iddynt. Byddai hynny’n annog y rhai sydd yn defnyddio’u ceir ar gyfer teithiau hir a byr i beidio â defnyddio’u ceir.

However, there are special circumstances in rural areas where buses are rare and people are dependent on their cars. We must look at that sympathetically. For example, we should try to utilise cleaner dual powered vehicles and devise transport policies that fit in with those special circumstances.

Fodd bynnag, mae amgylchiadau arbennig mewn ardaloedd gwledig lle mae bysiau yn brin a phobl yn ddibynnol ar eu ceir. Rhaid inni edrych yn garedig ar hynny. Er enghraifft, dylem geisio defnyddio cerbydau glanach â phŵer deuol a dyfeisio polisïau trafnidiaeth sydd yn gweddu i’r amgylchiadau arbennig hynny.

If we are to be able to effect real change in Welsh public transport, more power must be transferred to us from Westminster. We are quite rightly seeking the ability to set up a passenger transport authority for Wales, if we consider that necessary. That authority would include all forms of public transport not just trains. It would give us the necessary power to achieve the integration we need. We also need the single franchise for the Welsh train network that has been dangled so enticingly before us, and the power to direct the Strategic Rail Authority as to how that franchise is delivered.

Er mwyn inni allu cyflawni newid gwirioneddol yn nhrafnidiaeth gyhoeddus Cymru, rhaid trosglwyddo mwy o rym inni o San Steffan. Yr ydym yn gwbl briodol yn ceisio’r hawl i sefydlu awdurdod trafnidiaeth teithwyr i Gymru, os ystyriwn fod angen hyn angenrheidiol. Byddai’r awdurdod hwnnw yn cynnwys pob math o drafnidiaeth gyhoeddus, nid dim ond trenau. Byddai’n rhoi inni y grym angenrheidiol i gyflawni’r integreiddio sydd ei angen arnom. Mae arnom hefyd angen y fasnachfraint sengl sydd wedi ei siglo mor ddeniadol o’n blaenau, a’r grym i gyfarwyddo’r Awdurdod Rheilffyrdd Strategol ynglŷn â sut y mae’r fasnachfraint honno i gael ei chyflenwi.

There must be more than just warm words. We are in a better position than the UK Government to determine what is best for Wales, and to achieve what the people of Wales want. That is why I am pleased that we are in so much agreement, as is demonstrated by this motion, on what needs to be done.

Rhaid wrth fwy na dim ond geiriau cynnes. Yr ydym mewn gwell sefyllfa na Llywodraeth y DU i benderfynu beth sydd orau i bobl Cymru, ac i gyflawni’r hyn y mae pobl Cymru ei eisiau. Dyna pam yr wyf yn falch ein bod yn cytuno i’r fath raddau, fel y dengys y cynnig hwn, ar yr hyn y mae angen ei wneud.

Sue Essex spoken in English p. 72

Sue Essex siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 72

As I said in Plenary yesterday when I presented the Environment and Local Government Committee’s report, integrated transport has been given a particular emphasis in the Committee because it is so important to the health, welfare, economy and environment of Wales. I am delighted that we are discussing this matter this afternoon. The title of the debate is integrated transport. The discussion has widened into other aspects of transport, but I will focus on integrated transport.

Fel y dywedais yn y Cyfarfod Llawn ddoe wrth gyflwyno adroddiad Pwyllgor yr Amgylchedd a Llywodraeth Leol, rhoddodd y Pwyllgor bwyslais arbennig ar drafnidiaeth integredig gan fod hynny mor bwysig i iechyd, lles, economi ac amgylchedd Cymru. Yr wyf wrth fy modd ein bod yn trafod y mater y prynhawn yma. Trafnidiaeth integredig yw teitl y ddadl. Mae’r drafodaeth wedi ymledu i agweddau eraill ar drafnidiaeth, ond byddaf yn canolbwyntio ar drafnidiaeth integredig.

Integration means integrating roads and public transport, including such services as park and ride and transfer from one mode of transport to another. It means integrating within those forms of transport so that people can move from buses to rail, to cycling, walking, light rapid transit trams or whatever. It also means looking at the interface with land use and activity, which has not been given adequate consideration in the past. We must develop plans that will enable people to make integrated journeys in a more convenient and easier way. To echo Geraint’s point, integration is also about the services associated with transport: ticketing, information, all those services that make life easier for the transport user. I will look at those issues.

Mae integreiddio yn golygu integreiddio ffyrdd a thrafnidiaeth gyhoeddus, gan gynnwys gwasanaethau fel parcio a theithio a throsglwyddo o un dull trafnidiaeth i ddull arall. Mae’n golygu integreiddio o fewn y dulliau cludiant hyn fel y gall pobl symud o fysiau i’r rheilffordd, i feicio, cerdded, tramiau cyflym ysgafn neu beth bynnag. Mae hefyd yn golygu edrych ar y rhyngwyneb rhwng defnydd tir a gweithgarwch, rhywbeth nas ystyriwyd yn ddigonol yn y gorffennol. Rhaid inni ddatblygu cynlluniau a fydd yn galluogi pobl i wneud teithiau integredig mewn ffordd fwy hwylus a haws. I ategu pwynt Geraint, mae integreiddio hefyd yn cynnwys y gwasanaethau sydd ynghlwm wrth drafnidiaeth: tocynnau, gwybodaeth, yr holl wasanaethau hynny sydd yn hwyluso bywyd i’r teithiwr. Edrychaf ar y materion hyn.

I am pleased to say that, at last, we have a Government that is committed to promoting integrated transport. That is so important because it offers a different vision for the future from that of the last 20 or 30 years. As a child, which was before Jonathan Morgan’s time, I can remember the fifties—

Yr wyf yn falch o ddweud bod gennym, o’r diwedd, Lywodraeth sydd wedi ymrwymo i hyrwyddo trafnidiaeth integredig. Mae hynny mor bwysig oherwydd ei fod yn cynnig gweledigaeth ar gyfer y dyfodol sydd yn wahanol i weledigaeth yr 20 neu’r 30 mlynedd diwethaf. Fel plentyn, cyn amser Jonathan Morgan, gallaf gofio’r pum degau—

Jonathan Morgan spoken in English p. 73

Jonathan Morgan siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 73

That was well before my time.

Yr oedd hynny ymhell cyn fy amser i.

Sue Essex spoken in English p. 73

Sue Essex siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 73

We had nice traffic routes, wonderful railways, bus routes and trams, which gave us an excellent public transport system throughout the United Kingdom. The situation has changed because people have become so used to using their cars. Cars are wonderful when you are using them but not so wonderful when everyone else is using theirs also and clogging up the roads around you. As Peter Black eloquently said, we are not in a situation to be against the car because in many parts of Wales, particularly rural areas, it is the only transport option available. However, we do not want a situation where our transport options are so limited that we do not have the ability to transfer from car to public transport and are faced with his vision of ‘carmageddon’, or ‘kêrmageddon’, as we would say in Cardiff. I recommend that people read Ben Elton’s Gridlock.

Yr oedd gennym lwybrau traffig braf, rheilffyrdd rhagorol, llwybrau bysiau a thramiau, a roddai system drafnidiaeth gyhoeddus ardderchog inni ledled y Deyrnas Unedig. Mae’r sefyllfa wedi newid am fod pobl wedi arfer gymaint â defnyddio’u ceir. Mae ceir yn wych pan mai chi sy’n eu defnyddio ond ddim mor wych pan fo pawb arall yn defnyddio’u ceir hwy hefyd gan dagu’r ffyrdd o’ch cwmpas. Fel y dywedodd Peter Black yn huawdl, nid ydym mewn sefyllfa i fod yn erbyn y car oherwydd mewn llawer rhan o Gymru, yn enwedig ardaloedd gwledig, dyna’r unig opsiwn trafnidiaeth sydd ar gael. Fodd bynnag, nid ydym am gyrraedd sefyllfa lle mae ein hopsiynau trafnidiaeth mor gyfyngedig fel na allwn newid o’r car i drafnidiaeth gyhoeddus a’n bod yn dod wyneb yn wyneb â’i weledigaeth ef o ‘garmagedon’, neu ‘gêrmagedon’, fel y byddem yn dweud yng Nghaerdydd. Byddwn yn cymell pobl i ddarllen Gridlock gan Ben Elton.

In order to ensure that that does not happen, we must have a vision. I become very disappointed when I hear people say that we cannot do this, we cannot do that, we cannot stop people from using their cars. If we want to do it, then we can. We can ensure that people have a choice to use their cars when it suits them, but also to use good, convenient and cheap public transport or to ride bikes in safety. If we have the vision and the will, we can achieve that.

Er mwyn sicrhau nad yw hynny’n digwydd, rhaid inni gael gweledigaeth. Byddaf yn siomedig iawn wrth glywed pobl yn dweud na allwn wneud hyn, na allwn wneud y llall, na allwn atal pobl rhag defnyddio’u ceir. Os ydym am ei wneud, yna fe allwn. Gallwn sicrhau bod gan bobl ddewis i ddefnyddio’u ceir pan fo hynny’n ateb y diben, ond hefyd i ddefnyddio trafnidiaeth gyhoeddus dda, hwylus a rhad neu reidio beic yn ddiogel. Os yw’r weledigaeth a’r ewyllys gennym, gallwn gyflawni hynny.

What powers and ability does the Assembly have to make this radical change and realise our vision? It has become apparent to the Environment and Local Government Committee, and perhaps has been apparent to Peter Law for some time, that our powers have up to now been quite limited. We are dependent on the private sector to deliver on public transport, particularly since the privatisation of the railways into companies such as Railtrack and Atocs. We also have private bus companies. The provision of the public transport system has been fragmented during the past few years, which makes life more difficult. We are also dependent on local councils and what they can achieve on the ground to provide roads,—we still need roads for car users and buses—routes for cyclists and to deliver in their localities. We must target at a local level in order to make a difference.

Pa bwerau a gallu sydd gan y Cynulliad i wneud y newid radical hwn a gwireddu ein gweledigaeth? Mae wedi dod yn amlwg i Bwyllgor yr Amgylchedd a Llywodraeth Leol, ac efallai iddo fod yn amlwg i Peter Law ers peth amser, fod y pwerau a fu gennym hyd yma yn weddol gyfyngedig. Yr ydym yn ddibynnol ar y sector preifat i gael y maen i’r wal o ran trafnidiaeth gyhoeddus, yn enwedig ers preifateiddio’r rheilffyrdd yn gwmnïau fel Railtrack ac Atocs. Mae gennym hefyd gwmnïau bysiau preifat. Dros y blynyddoedd diwethaf darniwyd y system drafnidiaeth gyhoeddus a ddarperir, sydd yn gwneud bywyd yn fwy anodd. Yr ydym hefyd yn ddibynnol ar gynghorau lleol a’r hyn y gallant ei gyflawni ar lawr gwlad i ddarparu ffyrdd,—mae angen ffyrdd arnom o hyd ar gyfer defnyddwyr ceir a bysiau—llwybrau i feicwyr ac i gael y maen i’r wal yn eu broydd. Rhaid inni dargedu yn lleol er mwyn gwneud gwahaniaeth.

However, we have some weapons in our armoury. We provide funding and, as Peter Law said, this year we have placed an emphasis on placing money into integrated transport schemes and innovative schemes such as Safe Routes to School. I am pleased to see that Peter has made that shift. He listens to us. This will be an incentive for local authorities to put what they want into practice. We are introducing local transport plans brought forward by this Government. They will be a major means of delivering changes on the ground, linking in with unitary development plans. Thanks to Dai Lloyd, we had a meeting with the Women’s Institute last night. The WI is involved with local transport fora and local Agenda 21 groups. These groups are important in rural areas to ensure that schemes work locally and complement community transport schemes.

Fodd bynnag, mae gennym rai arfau yn ein storfa. Yr ydym yn darparu cyllid ac, fel y dywedodd Peter Law, eleni yr ydym wedi rhoi pwyslais ar neilltuo arian at gynlluniau trafnidiaeth integredig a chynlluniau arloesol fel Ffyrdd Diogel i’r Ysgol. Yr wyf yn falch i Peter newid y pwyslais. Mae’n gwrando arnom. Bydd hynny yn gymhelliad i awdurdodau lleol i roi’r hyn y maent yn ei ddymuno ar waith. Yr ydym yn cyflwyno cynlluniau trafnidiaeth lleol a sefydlwyd gan y Llywodraeth hon. Byddant yn gyfrwng pwysig i gyflawni newidiadau ar lawr gwlad, gan gyd-gysylltu â’r cynlluniau datblygu unedol. Diolch i Dai Lloyd, cawsom gyfarfod â Sefydliad y Menywod neithiwr. Mae’r Sefydliad yn cyfrannu at fforymau trafnidiaeth lleol a grwpiau Agenda 21 lleol. Mae’r grwpiau hyn yn bwysig mewn ardaloedd gwledig wrth sicrhau bod cynlluniau’n gweithio’n lleol ac yn ategu cynlluniau trafnidiaeth gymunedol.

It has become clear that we need extra powers. I am glad to say that the vehicle to achieve that—the bus, if you like—came along in the form of the Transport Bill. That is a major opportunity for us to get the powers we need to deliver integrated transport in Wales. The clauses on the Order Paper show what we require and I am pleased that we have a degree of agreement on this. It is essential that we persuade, or encourage, our Members of Parliament on this and let them know that this is a real opportunity for change.

Daeth yn amlwg bod angen pwerau ychwanegol arnom. Yr wyf yn falch o ddweud i’r cyfrwng er cyflawni hynny—y bws, os hoffwch chi—ymddangos ar ffurf y Mesur Trafnidiaeth. Mae’n gyfle o bwys inni i gael y pwerau sydd eu hangen arnom i sicrhau trafnidiaeth integredig yng Nghymru. Dengys y cymalau ar y Papur Trefn yr hyn sydd ei angen arnom ac yr wyf yn falch ein bod yn cytuno i raddau ar hyn. Mae’n hanfodol ein bod yn perswadio, neu’n annog, ein Haelodau Seneddol ar hyn ac yn gadael iddynt wybod bod hwn yn gyfle gwirioneddol am newid.

On a personal note, I was a member of the Welsh Transport Advisory Group that Peter Hain established some years ago. In the early days we were all overcome with depression because it seemed as though turning public and integrated transport around was an insoluble problem. Two years later, I feel more optimistic. One of the reasons for optimism is that the Assembly is working together with others and grappling with this, trying to make a difference. We have the Transport Bill and as the franchises are coming up we have a major opportunity to change things, as Peter has said. People ask ‘What is your vision, where will the Assembly take us?’ I would like to see an integrated transport system in Wales that compares to that of many countries on the continent of Europe, where the integration is assumed, with no question of whether we can get from A to B by public transport. It would give us a better quality of life. It would give a huge increase in accessibility for many members of our community who do not have access to a car, who want to have a job in order to be involved in economic life. That would help to combat issues of social exclusion. It would boost both the economy and the environment. I am pleased that we have had this debate this afternoon. After all the worries about where we are going, in transport we have optimism that I hope we can fulfil.

Ar nodyn personol, yr oeddwn yn aelod o Grŵp Cynghori Cymru ar Drafnidiaeth a sefydlwyd gan Peter Hain rai blynyddoedd yn ôl. Yn y dyddiau cynnar llethwyd pawb ohonom gan ddigalondid oherwydd iddi ymddangos fel pe bai gweddnewid trafnidiaeth gyhoeddus ac integredig yn broblem na ellid ei datrys. Ddwy flynedd yn ddiweddarach, teimlaf yn fwy gobeithiol. Un o’r rhesymau am hynny yw bod y Cynulliad yn cydweithio ag eraill ac yn ymafael â hyn, gan geisio gwneud gwahaniaeth. Mae’r Mesur Trafnidiaeth gennym a chan fod y masnachfreintiau i’w hadnewyddu mae gennym gyfle mawr i newid pethau, fel y dywedodd Peter. Mae pobl yn gofyn ‘Beth yw eich gweledigaeth, i ble y bydd y Cynulliad yn ein tywys?’ Hoffwn weld system drafnidiaeth integredig yng Nghymru sydd yn cymharu â systemau llawer o wledydd cyfandir Ewrop, lle cymerir integreiddio yn ganiataol, heb unrhyw gwestiwn a yw’n bosibl mynd o A i B ar drafnidiaeth gyhoeddus. Byddai’n gwella ansawdd ein bywydau. Byddai’n cynyddu hygyrchedd yn enfawr i lawer o aelodau ein cymuned nad oes car ar gael iddynt, sydd am gael gwaith er mwyn bod yn rhan o fywyd economaidd. Byddai hynny’n helpu i wrthsefyll allgáu cymdeithasol. Byddai’n hwb i’r economi a’r amgylchedd. Yr wyf yn falch inni gael y ddadl hon y prynhawn yma. Ar ôl yr holl ofid am ble yr ydym yn mynd, ym maes trafnidiaeth mae gennym optimistiaeth y gallwn ei wireddu, gobeithio.

Ann Jones spoken in English p. 75

Ann Jones siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 75

I am pleased to contribute to this debate on integrated transport. We must determine a way in which we intend to plan a more closely integrated, more responsive and higher quality transport network across Wales, suitable for the needs of the twenty-first and not the nineteenth century. Westminster is in the process of passing a comprehensive and visionary Transport Bill that will revolutionise the way in which transport is funded and delivered. Our resolution and debate seeks to ensure that the measures contained in that Bill will create the framework which will allow the Assembly to plan solutions for transport problems faced by people in Wales. Welsh solutions to Welsh problems.

Yr wyf yn falch o gyfrannu at y ddadl hon ar drafnidiaeth integredig. Rhaid inni bennu sut yr ydym yn bwriadu cynllunio rhwydwaith trafnidiaeth uwch ei ansawdd, mwy abl i ymateb ac wedi ei integreiddio’n well ar draws Cymru, sydd yn addas i anghenion yr unfed ganrif ar hugain ac nid y bedwaredd ar bymtheg. Mae San Steffan yn y broses o basio Mesur Trafnidiaeth cynhwysfawr a llawn gweledigaeth a fydd yn chwyldroi’r ffordd o gyllido a chyflenwi trafnidiaeth. Mae ein penderfyniad a’n dadl ni yn ceisio sicrhau y bydd cynnwys y Mesur yn creu fframwaith a fydd yn caniatáu i’r Cynulliad gynllunio atebion i’r problemau trafnidiaeth a wynebir gan bobl Cymru. Atebion Cymreig i broblemau Cymreig.

One of the issues of close concern to myself and other colleagues from north Wales is the difficulties in travelling between north and south Wales. By road it is tough, whether you go through the middle of the country or skirt into England and come back. It is a tiring journey. By rail it is only a little better. Whoever wins the new contract after the present franchise expires, I hope we will get cast-iron guarantees of improvements of the north-south services. The Assembly, along with the rest of the UK, has to come to terms with how we can improve a fragmented and privately owned rail network that has suffered from decades of under-investment. We can rationalise the function of our rail network and bring any investment needed. We cannot undo privatisation, but we can alter the nature of the franchise. The strategic rail authority, soon to be put on a statutory foundation, will hammer out these franchise agreements with the train operators that will allow them the long-term stability which they require to obtain return on their investment. In return, the SRA will demand detailed and enforceable commitments to improve the convenience for passengers.

Un mater o bryder mawr i mi a chyd-aelodau eraill o ogledd Cymru yw’r anawsterau wrth deithio rhwng gogledd a de Cymru. Mae’n galed ar y ffordd, pa un yr ydych yn mynd drwy ganol y wlad neu’n troi am Loegr a dod yn eich ôl. Mae’n daith flinedig. Dim ond mymryn gwell yw’r rheilffordd. Pwy bynnag sydd yn ennill y contract newydd ar ôl i’r fasnachfraint bresennol ddod i ben, gobeithiaf y cawn ymrwymiadau cwbl bendant i wella’r gwasanaethau rhwng y gogledd a’r de. Rhaid i’r Cynulliad, ynghyd â gweddill y DU, ganfod atebion i sut mae gwella rhwydwaith rheilffyrdd darniog, mewn dwylo preifat, sydd wedi dioddef degawdau o ddiffyg buddsoddi. Gallwn resymoli swyddogaeth ein rhwydwaith rheilffyrdd a chyflwyno unrhyw fuddsoddiad sydd ei angen. Ni allwn ddadwneud preifateiddio, ond gallwn newid natur y fasnachfraint. Bydd yr awdurdod rheilffyrdd strategol, sydd i’w roi ar sylfaen statudol yn fuan, yn taro bargen gyda’r cwmnïau trenau ar y cytundebau masnachfraint hyn a fydd yn rhoi iddynt y sefydlogrwydd tymor hir sydd ei angen arnynt i wneud elw ar eu buddsoddiad. Bydd yr awdurdod rheilffyrdd strategol, yn ei dro, yn mynnu ymrwymiadau manwl a gorfodadwy i wneud pethau’n fwy hwylus i deithwyr.

We need to upgrade our rail connections for sound economic reasons. One of the key factors which deters investment in Wales is accessibility. We need to show businesses that it is possible to travel to London, Manchester or Edinburgh conveniently, not only from Gwent or Alyn and Deeside but also from Caernarfon or the Vale of Clwyd. Good transport is the key to our economic ambition. That is why I welcome the announcement made last month that the Assembly, in partnership with Railtrack, is investing over £1 million over the next couple of years in improving the north coast main line. Nobody who has travelled this line questions the need for that service to be greatly improved. Wales is a rural country and therefore will always be fairly reliant on the car. Cars will inevitably remain a serious option for many journeys. It is puerile to describe the Government’s road congestion and traffic reduction strategies as anti-car. However, we must recognise that many people who live in rural areas do not necessarily have access to cars—pensioners, children and others can be seriously socially excluded by difficulties they face in travelling to and from their friends, shops or other social amenities. I reject the dogma of both those we would force the car off the road and equally those who see road building as the only answer to every transport problem. We need greater choice—genuine choice for all. Real choice requires high quality public transport as well as roads on which you can move. Real choice also means safe cycle-ways and safe routes to schools. I welcome Peter’s decision to put more money into safer routes to schools. Measures such as this can make a difference to people’s lives in Wales.

Mae angen inni wella ein cysylltiadau rheilffyrdd am resymau economaidd da. Un o’r ffactorau allweddol sydd yn cadw buddsoddiad allan o Gymru yw hygyrchedd. Mae angen inni ddangos i fusnesau ei bod yn bosibl teithio i Lundain, Manceinion neu Gaeredin yn hwylus, nid yn unig o Went neu Alun a Glannau Dyfrdwy ond hefyd o Gaernarfon neu Ddyffryn Clwyd. Trafnidiaeth dda yw’r allwedd i’n huchelgais economaidd. Dyna pam yr wyf yn croesawu’r cyhoeddiad a wnaethpwyd fis diwethaf fod y Cynulliad, mewn partneriaeth â Railtrack, yn buddsoddi dros £1 miliwn dros y ddwy flynedd nesaf i wella prif lein arfordir y gogledd. Nid oes neb sydd wedi teithio ar y lein hon yn amau bod angen gwella’r gwasanaeth yn ddirfawr. Gwlad wledig yw Cymru ac felly bydd bob amser yn weddol ddibynnol ar y car. Bydd ceir yn anochel yn parhau’n opsiwn difrifol am lawer o deithiau. Mae’n blentynnaidd disgrifio strategaethau’r Llywodraeth i leihau tagfeydd a thraffig ar y ffyrdd fel rhywbeth gelyniaethus i’r car. Fodd bynnag, rhaid inni gydnabod nad oes car ar gael o reidrwydd i lawer o bobl sydd yn byw mewn ardaloedd gwledig—gall pensiynwyr, plant ac eraill gael eu cau allan yn ddifrifol o gymdeithas gan yr anawsterau y maent yn eu hwynebu o ran teithio i weld eu ffrindiau, i’r siopau neu i gyfleusterau cymdeithasol eraill. Gwrthodaf ddogma nid yn unig y rhai a fyddai am orfodi’r car oddi ar y ffordd ond hefyd y rhai sydd yn gweld adeiladu ffyrdd fel yr unig ateb i bob problem drafnidiaeth. Mae angen mwy o ddewis arnom—dewis gwirioneddol i bawb. Mae dewis gwirioneddol yn golygu trafnidiaeth gyhoeddus o ansawdd uchel yn ogystal â ffyrdd y gallwch symud arnynt. Mae dewis gwirioneddol hefyd yn golygu llwybrau beicio diogel a ffyrdd diogel i’r ysgol. Croesawaf benderfyniad Peter i roi mwy o arian at lwybrau mwy diogel i’r ysgol. Gall mesurau fel hyn wneud gwahaniaeth i fywydau pobl yng Nghymru.

One of the top priorities for transport planning in Wales is to ensure that all communities are served by regular, reliable bus services. The economies of these services are such that they cannot be left to the market. The effect on rural services of bus transport deregulation under the Tories was catastrophic. I am sorry to say that, gents. There are not many of you here.

Un o flaenoriaethau pennaf cynllunio trafnidiaeth yng Nghymru yw sicrhau bod gan bob cymuned wasanaethau bws dibynadwy a rheolaidd. Mae economeg y gwasanaethau hyn yn golygu na ellir eu gadael i’r farchnad. Yr oedd effaith dadreoleiddio trafnidiaeth bws ar wasanathau gwledig dan y Torïaid yn drychinebus. Mae’n ddrwg gennyf ddweud hynny, foneddigion. Nid oes llawer ohonoch yma.

Jonathan Morgan spoken in English p. 77

Jonathan Morgan siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 77

Where are your colleagues?

Ble mae eich cyd-aelodau chithau?

Dafydd Elis-Thomas The Presiding Officer spoken in English p. 77

Dafydd Elis-Thomas Y Llywydd siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 77

Order. We should not get into a debate about who is here and who is not.

Trefn. Ni ddylem fynd i drafod pwy sydd yma a phwy nad ydynt yma.

Ann Jones spoken in English p. 77

Ann Jones siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 77

Even in a semi-rural constituency such as my own, almost two-thirds of my constituents do not have the use of a private car or even access to one. Local authorities in rural Wales have made great efforts to keep at least the bones of a service alive to connect rural areas, but the financial pressures on councils are great—services are often so poor that they are little used. We get a gradual vicious circle of low uptake necessitating greater subsidy and service cutbacks.

Hyd yn oed mewn etholaeth led-wledig fel fy un i, nid oes gan ddwy ran o dair o’r etholwyr gar preifat i’w ddefnyddio na modd cael gafael ar un. Mae’r awdurdodau lleol yng nghefn gwlad Cymru wedi ymdrechu’n fawr i gynnal ysgerbwd o wasanaeth o leiaf yn ddolen gyswllt rhwng ardaloedd gwledig, ond mae’r pwysau ariannol ar gynghorau yn fawr—mae’r gwasanaethau yn aml mor wael fel nad ydynt prin yn cael eu defnyddio. Cawn gylch dieflig graddol o nifer isel o deithwyr yn golygu mwy o gymhorthdal a thorri’n ôl ar y gwasanaeth.

Our road networks are not equipped to cope with the consequences of total dependence on the private car. The problem becomes exacerbated in summer when tourists wish to experience our wonderful countryside, but all too often spend hours in traffic jams winding down narrow lanes. Such congestion is bad for the environment, bad for health, bad for my temper, and bad for businesses.

Nid yw ein rhwydweithiau ffyrdd yn gymwys i ymdopi â chanlyniadau dibyniaeth lwyr ar geir preifat. Mae’r broblem yn waeth yn yr haf pan fo twristiaid am brofi ein cefn gwlad odidog, ond yn rhy aml o lawer maent yn treulio oriau mewn tagfeydd traffig yn araf ddirwyn ar hyd lonydd cul. Mae tagfeydd o’r fath yn ddrwg i’r amgylchedd, yn ddrwg i iechyd, yn ddrwg i’m tymer i ac yn ddrwg i fusnesau.

I would like to see a public transport policy aimed at nurturing the creation of a living, working countryside that is not overrun by traffic and where people without access to cars are not left isolated. We also need intelligent transport planning between the partners that are responsible for providing services, in rural and urban areas. We must draw on the experience of people on large housing estates where bus services exist, but which do not sometimes meet people’s needs. It is no good providing a bus service for a mother with a young family that gets the child to school five minutes after the bell has rung. We must ensure some sort of planning.

Hoffwn weld polisi trafnidiaeth gyhoeddus sydd yn ceisio meithrin cefn gwlad fyw, llawn gwaith nad yw’n boddi mewn traffig a lle nad yw pobl sydd heb gar yn cael eu hynysu. Mae angen cynllunio deallus arnom hefyd rhwng y partneriaid trafnidiaeth sydd yn gyfrifol am ddarparu gwasanaethau, mewn ardaloedd gwledig a threfol. Rhaid inni fanteisio ar brofiad pobl ar ystadau tai mawr lle mae gwasanaethau bws yn bodoli, ond nad ydynt weithiau yn diwallu anghenion pobl. Nid oes diben darparu gwasanaeth bws i fam â theulu ifanc sydd yn cyrraedd yr ysgol bum munud ar ôl i’r gloch ganu. Rhaid sicrhau rhyw fath o gynllunio.

Traditional bus services are the cornerstone of transport, but they are not the be-all and end-all. We also need to be innovative and to experiment. Taxi-buses, post-buses, dial-a-ride, car-sharing, community transport and taxi connections to buses will all be required in outlying communities if we are to make access to transport a reality.

Gwasanaethau bws traddodiadol yw conglfaen trafnidiaeth, ond nid hwy yw’r unig elfen. Mae angen hefyd inni fod yn arloesol ac arbrofi. Bydd angen bysiau-tacsi, bysiau’r-post, ffonio-am-reid, rhannu-ceir, trafnidiaeth gymunedol a chysylltiadau tacsi i gwrdd â’r bws mewn cymunedau anghysbell os ydym i wneud mynediad i drafnidiaeth yn realiti.

Integrated transport means the convenience of the car where necessary but increasingly combined with an upgraded public transport system, to provide a real alternative. It means a door-to-door service, by car or public transport, or the two together. It entails integrated information and ticketing and bringing services to people more often, rather than forcing them to go out in search of those services. It also means thinking in a joined-up way, whether we are formulating economic policy, making proposals in local government or planning new homes, shops or workplaces.

Mae trafnidiaeth integredig yn golygu hwylustod y car lle bo raid ond fwyfwy wedi ei gyfuno â system drafnidiaeth gyhoeddus sydd wedi ei gwella, fel dewis amgen gwirioneddol. Mae’n golygu gwasanaeth o-ddrws-i-ddrws, mewn car neu ar drafnidiaeth gyhoeddus, neu’r ddau gyda’i gilydd. Mae’n golygu gwybodaeth a thocynnau integredig a dod â gwasanaethau at y bobl yn amlach, yn hytrach na’u gorfodi hwy i fynd i chwilio am y gwasanaethau. Mae hefyd yn golygu meddwl mewn ffordd gyfunedig, wrth lunio polisi economaidd, gwneud cynigion mewn llywodraeth leol neu gynllunio cartrefi, siopau neu weithleoedd newydd.

I want a transport system where integration means convenience, a single ticket, convenient connections, comfortable journeys and guaranteed to deliver me the passenger where I want to go on time. I see no reason why we should not in future be able to buy a single ticket on the telephone or by e-mail—if I could work out how to do that—which would allow us to travel long distance door-to-door. A cab could pick us up from home, take us to a bus stop, then on to the train with either a cab or a bus-ride at the other end—a door-to-door service. Our goal should be clear, as others have said. It is to give Wales a transport system to rival the best in Europe. It is an opportunity and a challenge for rail and bus operators, for travel agents and cab companies and for the public and private sectors to work together. A challenge, I hope, that we will all work together to achieve.

Yr wyf am gael system drafnidiaeth lle mae integreiddio’n golygu hwylustod, un tocyn, cysylltiadau hwylus, teithiau cyfforddus sydd yn gwarantu y byddaf fi, y teithiwr, yn cyrraedd y man yr wyf am fynd iddo ar amser. Ni welaf pam na ddylem yn y dyfodol allu prynu un tocyn ar y ffôn neu drwy e-bost—pe gallwn i ddeall sut mae gwneud hynny—a fyddai’n caniatáu inni deithio’n bell o-ddrws-i-ddrws. Gallai tacsi ein codi o’r tŷ, mynd â ni i arosfa fysisu, yna ymlaen at y trên gyda thaith mewn tacsi neu fws y pen arall—gwasanaeth o-ddrws-i-ddrws. Dylai ein nod fod yn glir, fel y dywedodd eraill, sef rhoi i Gymru system drafnidiaeth gyda’r gorau yn Ewrop. Mae’n gyfle ac yn her i gwmnïau rheilffyrdd a bysiau, i gwmnïau teithio a chwmnïau tacsis ac i’r sectorau cyhoeddus a phreifat i weithio gyda’i gilydd. Mae’n her, gobeithio, y byddwn oll yn gweithio gyda’n gilydd i’w chyflawni.

Owen John Thomas siaradwyd yn Gymraeg ac yn Saesneg t. 79

Owen John Thomas spoken in Welsh and English p. 79

Llongyfarchaf Peter Law ar ei arweiniad yn y maes hwn. Dywedir bod wythnos yn gyfnod hir mewn gwleidyddiaeth—ac mae’r weledigaeth hon yn gyfarwydd iawn i’r rhai hynny ohonom sydd wedi credu yng nghenedl y Cymry ers blynyddoedd.

in Welsh I congratulate Peter Law on his leadership in this field. It is said that a week is a long time in politics—and this vision is very familiar to those of us who have believed in the Welsh nation for years.

I also welcome the harmony and agreement that has been expressed by Members of all parties on this subject. That bodes well for the future of transport in Wales. As we move towards the formation of an integrated transport policy for Wales and beyond that to its implementation, we could learn much by addressing the immediate needs of the compact yet challenging area of Cardiff Bay.

yn Saesneg Croesawaf hefyd y cytgord a’r ymateb cytûn a fynegwyd gan Aelodau o bob plaid ar y pwnc hwn. Mae hynny’n argoeli’n dda ar gyfer dyfodol trafnidiaeth yng Nghymru. Wrth inni symud tuag at lunio polisi trafnidiaeth integredig i Gymru ac wedi hynny i’w roi ar waith, gallem ddysgu llawer drwy roi sylw i anghenion ardal fechan ond heriol Bae Caerdydd, lle mae angen atebion ar unwaith.

Most, if not all, of the transport problems that face other urban areas in Wales are encapsulated on the Assembly’s doorstep. Here there are exciting developments that require much co-ordination and considerable skill and understanding to control efficiently the movement of thousands of people and vehicles in and out of this small patch. Therefore, setting up the Cardiff Bay transport study group presents a great opportunity to create an integrated transport system that could become an exemplar for Wales, and perhaps the first patch in the national transport quilt.

yn Saesneg Mae’r rhan fwyaf, os nad yr holl broblemau trafnidiaeth a wynebir gan ardaloedd trefol eraill o Gymru wedi eu crynhoi ar riniog y Cynulliad. Yma ceir datblygiadau cyffrous ac mae angen llawer o gydlynu a chryn sgil a chrebwyll i reoli symudiadau miloedd o bobl a cherbydau i mewn ac allan o’r llain bychan hwn yn effeithlon. Mae sefydlu grŵp astudiaeth drafnidiaeth Bae Caerdydd felly yn gyfle rhagorol i greu system drafnidiaeth integredig a allai fod yn batrwm i Gymru, a hwyrach yn glwt cyntaf yn y cwilt trafnidiaeth cenedlaethol.

Those of us who have seen photographs of the web-like network of railways that carried thousands of truckloads of coal daily into this small area to link up with ships and then return empty to the Valleys might regard the daily integration of scores of buses and trains as a piece of cake. Is the achievement of the pioneers of the nineteenth century beyond the scope of the planners of the twenty-first century? If we can succeed in weaving the first patch in this corner of Wales, the lessons learned can help to weave a pattern from Cardiff Bay to Colwyn Bay and from Bro Taf to Bro Teifi.

yn Saesneg Efallai y byddai’r rheini ohonom sydd wedi gweld lluniau o’r rhwydwaith rheilffyrdd tebyg i we corryn a gludai filoedd o lwythi o lo i mewn i’r ardal fechan hon yn feunyddiol i gwrdd â’r llongau a dychwelyd yn wag wedyn i’r Cymoedd yn ystyried nad oes dim byd haws nag integreiddio dwsinau o fysiau a threnau bob dydd. A yw llwyddiannau arloeswyr y bedwaredd ganrif ar bymtheg tu hwnt i allu cynllunwyr yr unfed ganrif ar hugain? Os gallwn ni lwyddo i wau’r clwt cyntaf yn y gornel hon o Gymru, gall y gwersi a ddysgwyd helpu i wau patrwm o Fae Caerdydd i Fae Colwyn ac o Fro Taf i Fro Teifi.

Ar ôl cyfarfod hir yn y Siambr, gallai Aelodau o Glwyd ac o Wynedd ddal tram trydan y tu allan i ddrws y Cynulliad ac yna neidio ar drên modern—seren wib Cymru—i fynd â hwy i Wrecsam erbyn 8 p.m., i Fangor erbyn 9 p.m. ac i Gaergybi chwarter awr yn ddiweddarach.

in Welsh Following a long session in the Chamber, Members from Clwyd and Gwynedd could catch an electric tram outside the Assembly door and then jump onto a modern train—Wales’s shooting star—to take them to Wrexham by 8 p.m., Bangor by 9 p.m. and Holyhead a quarter of an hour later.

It is also the newness of the bay area—combined with our own presence and the potential of the railway versus the demands made by the growth of car travel—that makes this an ideal laboratory for the development of a successful integrated transport system. Cardiff Bay Development Corporation, Cardiff City and County Council and other interested parties have completely failed to provide adequate public transport to an area which they have been too keen to dub ‘Europe’s most exciting waterfront development’. They have talked of achieving a balance of 50-50 between public transport and the private car in the bay area. The fact is that well over 90 per cent of journeys to the bay are at present made by car. This results in unauthorised parking and unacceptable road congestion and pollution. Given that many visitors to the bay area belong to the business community and travel to Cardiff by train, it is absurd that no direct link exists between Cardiff’s central station and the bay.

yn Saesneg Newydd-deb ardal y bae—ynghyd â’n presenoldeb ni a photensial y rheilffordd o’i gymharu â’r galwadau sydd yn deillio o’r twf yn nefnydd y car—sydd yn gwneud hwn yn labordy delfrydol ar gyfer datblygu system drafnidiaeth integredig lwyddiannus. Mae Corfforaeth Datblygu Bae Caerdydd, Cyngor Dinas a Sir Caerdydd a chyrff eraill cyfrannog wedi methu’n llwyr â darparu trafnidiaeth gyhoeddus ddigonol i ardal y buont yn rhy awyddus i’w alw’n ‘ddatblygiad glan-y-dŵr mwyaf cyffrous Ewrop’. Maent wedi sôn am daro cydbwysedd 50-50 rhwng trafnidiaeth gyhoeddus a’r car preifat yn ardal y bae. Y gwir yw bod tipyn mwy na 90 y cant o deithiau i’r bae yn cael eu gwneud yn y car ar hyn o bryd. Mae hyn yn arwain at barcio heb ganiatâd a thagfeydd a llygredd annerbyniol ar y ffyrdd. O gofio bod llawer o’r ymwelwyr â’r bae yn perthyn i’r gymuned fusnes ac yn teithio i Gaerdydd ar y trên, mae’n wirion nad oes cyswllt uniongyrchol rhwng gorsaf canol Caerdydd a’r bae.

On arriving at Cardiff Bay station, those brave souls who choose to travel here by train find an almost total lack of decent pavements leading to this building. The entire ethos is hostile to the pedestrian. The road system is designed almost exclusively around the motorist. What will happen when more office, shopping and leisure developments occupy the land that is currently used for parking?

yn Saesneg Wedi cyrraedd gorsaf Bae Caerdydd, mae’r dewrion hynny sydd yn dewis teithio yma ar y trên yn canfod nad oes prin ddim palmentydd yn arwain at yr adeilad hwn. Mae’r naws trwyddo draw yn elyniaethus i’r cerddwr. Mae’r system ffyrdd wedi ei chynllunio’n gyfan gwbl bron ar gyfer y modurwr. Beth fydd yn digwydd pan fydd mwy o ddatblygiadau swyddfa, siopa a hamdden yn llenwi’r tir a ddefnyddir i barcio ar hyn o bryd?

Integrated transport, like charity, begins at home. If we, with our particular interest in the bay, cannot succeed in creating a decent system to get ourselves here, what right do we have to plan for other parts of Wales? What credibility will our efforts have?

yn Saesneg Mae trafnidiaeth integredig, fel haelioni, yn dechrau gartref. Os na allwn ni, gyda’n diddordeb arbennig yn y bae, lwyddo i greu system resymol i gyrraedd yma, pa hawl sydd gennym i gynllunio ar gyfer rhannau eraill o Gymru? Pa hygrededd fydd i’n hymdrechion?

Our growing reliance on the car, combined with our lack of faith in public transport, has stifled our ability to find creative solutions to problems that other countries and cities have tackled with imagination and vigour. The interlocking of a synchronised system involving footpaths, cycle routes, water taxis, electric trams, trains, buses and park-and-ride centres is exciting and diverse.

yn Saesneg Mae ein dibyniaeth gynyddol ar y car, ynghyd â’n diffyg ffydd mewn trafnidiaeth gyhoeddus, wedi mygu ein gallu i ganfod atebion creadigol i broblemau y mae gwledydd a dinasoedd eraill wedi ymdrin â hwy â dychymyg ac egni. Mae plethu system gydamserol o lwybrau troed, llwybrau beicio, tacsis dŵr, tramiau trydan, trenau, bysiau a chanolfannau parcio a mynd ar drafnidiaeth gyhoeddus yn gyffrous ac amrywiol.

The newness of the Assembly and the busyness of the bay offer a unique opportunity to place special emphasis on alternative forms of travel, not simply to solve Cardiff’s immediate problems, but to develop ideas that can transform transport throughout Wales.

yn Saesneg Mae newydd-deb y Cynulliad a phrysurdeb y bae yn cynnig cyfle unigryw i roi pwyslais arbennig ar ddulliau teithio amgen, nid yn unig i ddatrys problemau cyfredol Caerdydd, ond i ddatblygu syniadau a allai weddnewid trafnidiaeth ledled Cymru.

Christine Chapman spoken in English p. 81

Christine Chapman siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 81

I welcome this debate and the opportunity to reflect on some of the issues with which the Assembly needs to get to grips. I will focus on the difficulties faced by rail users in Valley areas. We all suffer from poor transport throughout Wales, but as I represent a Valley constituency I will highlight this today.

Croesawaf y ddadl hon a’r cyfle i bwyso a mesur rhai o’r materion y mae angen i’r Cynulliad fynd i’r afael â hwy. Canolbwyntiaf ar yr anawsterau a wynebir gan ddefnyddwyr trenau yn ardaloedd y Cymoedd. Mae pawb ohonom yn dioddef o drafnidiaeth wael ledled Cymru, ond gan fy mod yn cynrychioli etholaeth yn y Cymoedd, yr wyf am amlygu hynny heddiw.

Valley Lines has recently been plagued by poor reports on punctuality, reliability and so on. It has been among the worst rail operators in the country for much of the recent past and recently received an E grade performance, which is the worst available. These grades are based on reliability and punctuality.

Mae Valley Lines wedi dod dan y lach yn ddiweddar mewn adroddiadau yn beirniadu prydlondeb, dibynadwyedd ac ati. Bu’n un o’r cwmnïau trenau gwaethaf yn y wlad drwy lawer o’r cyfnod diweddar a rhoddwyd gradd perfformiad E iddo’n ddiweddar, y gwaethaf posibl. Seilir y graddau hyn ar ddibynadwyedd a phrydlondeb.

There is a big problem in the Valley areas. In the Cynon Valley, there is a high level of households with no car ownership. The figure is now probably 50 per cent. The Cynon Valley has an ageing population, as do other Valley areas. These people rely heavily on a punctual and reliable public transport service. Valley Lines is failing on both counts. It is not only failing its passengers, but also its investors. By consistently performing to levels below that which is needed to stop season ticket discounts, it continually has to bail itself out to pay passengers for poor service. It is a catch-22 situation, as paying out for delays means less money for investment and service improvement.

Mae problem fawr yn ardaloedd y Cymoedd. Yng Nghwm Cynon, ceir lefel uchel o aelwydydd nad ydynt yn berchen car. Mae’n debyg bod y ffigwr yn 50 y cant erbyn hyn. Mae poblogaeth Cwm Cynon yn heneiddio, yr un fath ag ardaloedd eraill o’r Cymoedd. Mae’r bobl hyn yn dibynnu’n drwm ar wasanaeth trafnidiaeth gyhoeddus prydlon a dibynadwy. Mae Valley Lines yn methu ar y naill a’r llall. Nid yn unig y mae’n siomi ei gwsmeriaid, mae hefyd yn siomi ei fuddsoddwyr. Drwy berfformio’n gyson islaw’r lefelau sydd yn ofynnol er mwyn atal gostyngiadau ar docynnau tymor, mae’n gorfod achub ei groen yn barhaus drwy dalu’r teithwyr am wasanaeth gwael. Mae’n sefyllfa heb ymwared, gan fod talu am wasanaethau hwyr yn golygu llai o arian ar gyfer buddsoddi a gwella’r gwasanaeth.

Valley Lines says that part of the reason for its low performance figures is the rise in the level of sickness among the train crew. I do not know what is behind these statistics. I am aware that there are stresses and strains in modern life. Train drivers have problems with people making life difficult for them, by leaving items on the track for example. Trains are regularly pelted with debris such as sticks and stones. There have even been incidents in the Cynon Valley where airguns have been fired at trains. I am not unsympathetic to the plight of the train crews, but we need to address these problems head on. Allowing service standards to slip because of this is not good enough.

Dywed Valley Lines mai rhan o’r rheswm am ei ffigurau perfformiad isel yw’r cynnydd yn y lefel salwch ymysg y criw. Ni wn i beth sydd tu cefn i’r ystadegau hyn. Gwn fod yna pwysau a straen mewn bywyd modern. Caiff gyrwyr trenau broblemau gyda phobl yn gwneud bywyd yn anodd iddynt, drwy adael pethau ar y cledrau, er enghraifft. Caiff trenau eu pledu â phethau fel brigau a cherrig yn rheolaidd. Cafwyd digwyddiadau yng Nghwm Cynon hyd yn oed lle taniwyd gynnau awyr at drenau. Mae gennyf gydymdeimlad â chriwiau’r trenau, ond mae angen wynebu’r problemau hyn yn gadarn. Nid yw’n ddigon da caniatáu i safonau’r gwasanaeth ddirywio oherwydd hyn.

The people of the Cynon Valley and other valleys who are served by this company deserve a reliable and punctual train service. I have no doubt that fans travelling to the Wales versus Italy rugby match at the Millennium Stadium on Saturday will, as always, have to endure crowded trains and inflated prices. Friends and family have informed me of incidents when trains going to Cardiff have to race past stations as they are too full. This is not acceptable. This is a twenty-first century rail network and things are not happening as we would like.

Mae pobl Cwm Cynon a’r cymoedd eraill a wasanaethir gan y cwmni hwn yn haeddu gwasanaeth trên dibynadwy a phrydlon. Nid oes gennyf unrhyw amheuaeth y bydd cefnogwyr yn teithio i gêm rygbi Cymru yn erbyn yr Eidal yn Stadiwm y Mileniwm ddydd Sadwrn yn gorfod dioddef trenau gorlawn a phrisiau chwyddedig, fel arfer. Mae ffrindiau a theulu wedi dweud wrthyf am ddigwyddiadau pan fo trenau sydd yn mynd i Gaerdydd yn gorfod rasio heibio i orsafoedd am eu bod yn rhy llawn. Nid yw hyn yn dderbyniol. Rhwydwaith rheilffordd yr unfed ganrif ar hugain yw hwn ac nid yw pethau’n gweithio fel y byddem yn dymuno.

I am often asked, as are all of us I am sure, about the late night services into Cardiff. Our capital city is a shining example of new Wales. However, if my Cynon Valley constituents want a night out in Cardiff they must rely on private transport or taxis. Otherwise, they must return home at 8 p.m. It is, therefore, not much of a night out.

Gofynnir i mi yn aml, fel pawb ohonom yr wyf yn siŵr, am wasanaethau hwyr y nos i Gaerdydd. Mae ein prifddinas yn enghraifft ddisglair o’r Gymru newydd. Fodd bynnag, os yw fy etholwyr yng Nghwm Cynon am gael noson allan yng Nghaerdydd, rhaid iddynt ddibynnu ar drafnidiaeth breifat neu dacsis. Fel arall, rhaid iddynt fynd adref am 8 p.m. Nid yw, felly, yn llawer o noson allan.

Why are people in the Valleys denied the opportunity to join in the cultural life of the capital? We are now proud of our capital, which has an ever-expanding choice of restaurants and pubs. All of this is alien to evening visitors from the Valley areas as the last train to Aberdare leaves Cardiff at 8.20 p.m. or 7.57 p.m. from the bay. Again, that is not acceptable. Why is there no provision at night? Valley Lines needs to get this right.

Pam y gwadir i bobl y Cymoedd y cyfle i ymuno ym mywyd diwylliannol ein prifddinas? Yr ydym bellach yn ymfalchïo yn ein prifddinas, sydd â dewis o dai bwyta a thafarnau sydd yn cynyddu’n barhaus. Mae hyn oll yn ddieithr i ymwelwr min nos o’r Cymoedd am fod y trên olaf i Aberdâr yn gadael Caerdydd am 8.20 p.m. neu 7.57 p.m. o’r bae. Eto, nid yw hynny’n dderbyniol. Pam nad oes darpariaeth gyda’r nos? Mae angen i Valley Lines gael hyn yn iawn.

As Sue Essex mentioned, improved services are essential if people in the Valley areas are to take advantage of Objective 1 and the new economy. Refurbishment work is being undertaken at stations throughout the Cynon Valley and the service is improving slowly. I am pleased about that, but it is not happening fast enough. The people of the south Wales Valleys deserve a reliable and punctual rail service now. Finally, I ask that the Assembly takes these views on board in the franchise negotiations.

Fel y soniodd Sue Essex, mae gwell gwasanaethau’n hanfodol os yw pobl yn y Cymoedd i fanteisio ar Amcan 1 a’r economi newydd. Mae gwaith adnewyddu yn cael ei wneud ar orsafoedd ledled Cwm Cynon ac mae’r gwasanaeth yn gwella’n araf. Yr wyf yn falch o hynny, ond nid yw’n digwydd yn ddigon cyflym. Mae pobl Cymoedd de Cymru yn haeddu gwasanaeth rheilffordd dibynadwy a phrydlon yn awr. Yn olaf, gofynnaf i’r Cynulliad gydnabod y safbwyntiau hyn yn y negodiadau masnachfraint.

Carwyn Jones spoken in English p. 83

Carwyn Jones siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 83

I am glad that we have agreed that a passenger transport authority is a good thing for Wales. I am also glad that the idea of a single rail franchise is being seriously considered. The Welsh rail network will not benefit from being considered a rural outpost of a largely urban network centred around the cities of the Midlands and the north-west of England. The argument often used against the single rail franchise is that Wales is not an integrated railway area. The example of Scotrail is often used to illustrate that. However, Scottish railways run over the border to England. There are cross-border services. The only difference between services in Wales and services in Scotland is the borderline. If local authorities along the border felt left out of a single franchise, that could be addressed by consulting with those counties to bring them on board. I am sure that that would be preferable to being run from further away.

Yr wyf yn falch inni gytuno bod awdurdod trafnidiaeth teithwyr yn beth da i Gymru. Yr wyf yn falch hefyd fod y syniad o un fasnachfraint reilffordd yn cael ei ystyried o ddifrif. Ni fydd rhwydwaith rheilffyrdd Cymru yn elwa o gael ei ystyried yn gangen wledig ar gyrion rhwydwaith trefol mawr wedi ei ganoli ar ddinasoedd canolbarth a gogledd orllewin Lloegr. Y ddadl a ddefnyddir yn aml yn erbyn un fasnachfraint yw nad yw Cymru yn ardal integredig o ran y rheilffyrdd. Defnyddir Scotrail fel enghraifft yn aml i ddangos hynny. Fodd bynnag, mae rheilffyrdd yr Alban yn rhedeg dros y ffin i Loegr. Mae yna wasanaethau traws-ffiniol. Yr unig wahaniaeth rhwng gwasanaethau yng Nghymru a gwasanaethau yn yr Alban yw’r ffin. Pe bai’r awdurdodau lleol ar hyd y ffin yn teimlo eu bod wedi eu gadael allan o un fasnachfraint, gellid delio â hynny drwy ymgynghori â’r siroedd hynny i’w cynnwys. Yr wyf yn siŵr y byddai hynny’n well na chael eu rhedeg o ymhellach i ffwrdd.

There are two points that need to be made about transport. In order to make transport attractive to people, there have to be as many through journeys and through-ticketing systems as possible. It is well known that if people have to change a number of times, they will not use public transport. To get from Bridgend to the Cardiff Bay station, one must change twice. That puts many people off. There is a direct train—I travel on it—that comes in the morning. I urge that the light rail link is in place before the railway embankment in the bay disappears. If the embankment goes without the direct rail link being in place, I doubt that we will ever see it built.

Mae angen gwneud dau bwynt am drafnidiaeth. Er mwyn gwneud trafnidiaeth yn ddeniadol i bobl, rhaid wrth gymaint o deithiau drwodd a thocynnau o-un-pen-i’r-llall â phosibl. Gwyddom na fydd pobl yn defnyddio trafnidiaeth gyhoeddus os oes rhaid iddynt newid sawl gwaith. I fynd o Ben-y-bont ar Ogwr i orsaf Bae Caerdydd, rhaid newid ddwywaith. Mae llawer o bobl yn anhapus â hynny. Mae yna drên uniongyrchol—byddaf i’n teithio arno—sydd yn dod yn y bore. Yr wyf yn annog sefydlu’r cyswllt trên ysgafn cyn i arglawdd y rheilffordd yn y bae ddiflannu. Os aiff yr arglawdd heb fod y cyswllt trên uniongyrchol wedi ei godi, yr wyf yn amheus a gaiff ei godi byth.

It is also important that we publicise through-ticketing. During the Assembly elections, a member of the public asked in a hustings session whether I would support the idea of a through-ticket system from Cardiff to Porthcawl, with people changing at Bridgend and catching a bus to Porthcawl. I was able to give a 100 per cent answer because I knew that the service was already in place. Unfortunately, it was not publicised. No one knew about it or understood that you could buy a ticket to go from Cardiff to Porthcawl. The publicity was inadequate. We must address that.

Mae’n bwysig hefyd ein bod yn rhoi cyhoeddusrwydd i docynnau o-un-pen-i’r-llall. Yn ystod etholiadau’r Cynulliad, gofynnodd aelod o’r cyhoedd mewn hustyngau a fyddwn yn cefnogi system docynnau o-un-pen-i’r-llall o Gaerdydd i Borth-cawl, gyda phobl yn newid ym Mhen-y-bont ar Ogwr ac yn dal bws i Borthcawl. Gallwn roi ateb 100 y cant oherwydd gwyddwn fod y gwasanaeth yn bodoli’n barod. Yn anffodus, nid oedd cyhoeddusrwydd iddo. Nid oedd neb yn gwybod amdano nac yn deall y gallech brynu tocyn i fynd o Gaerdydd i Borth-cawl. Yr oedd y cyhoeddusrwydd yn annigonol. Rhaid inni fynd i’r afael â hynny.

Cardiff Wales Airport is not far from here. The airport can be of economic help to the whole of south Wales. The difficulty is getting there. The roads are poor and the railway link is non-existent. An argument often used is that the airport does not attract enough passengers to justify improving the transport links to it. I reject that. The airport cannot attract passengers because the transport links are so poor. If we improved the road and rail links, Cardiff Wales Airport could easily outstrip its nearest rival in Bristol, where the transport links are even worse.

Nid yw Maes Awyr Cymru Caerdydd yn bell o’r fan hon. Gall y maes awyr fod o fudd economaidd i dde Cymru gyfan. Yr anhawster yw ei gyrraedd. Mae’r ffyrdd yn wael ac nid oes cyswllt rheilffordd. Dadl a ddefnyddir yn aml yw nad yw’r maes awyr yn denu digon o deithwyr i gyfiawnhau gwella’r cysylltiadau trafnidiaeth iddo. Gwrthodaf hynny. Ni all y maes awyr ddenu teithwyr am fod y cysylltiadau trafnidiaeth mor wael. Pe baem yn gwella’r cysylltiadau ffordd a rheilffordd, gall Maes Awyr Cymru Caerdydd ragori’n hawdd ar ei gystadleuydd agosaf ym Mryste, lle mae’r cysylltiadau trafnidiaeth yn waeth fyth.

Wales needs a cheap, clean and reliable transport system. That means trains and buses that run on time and that have clean windows out of which people can see. That is a novelty on some buses and trains. When people get on a bus, their teeth and bones should not rattle because the suspension and shock absorbers are almost non-existent. We must address passenger comfort as well as price and reliability.

Mae ar Gymru angen system drafnidiaeth rad, glân a dibynadwy. Mae hynny’n golygu trenau a bysiau sydd yn rhedeg ar amser ac sydd â ffenestri glân, y gall pobl weld allan ohonynt. Mae hynny’n beth anarferol ar rai bysiau a threnau. Pan fydd pobl yn mynd ar fws, ni ddylai eu dannedd a’u hesgyrn ysgwyd am fod yr hongiad a’r siocleddfwyr yn gwbl aneffeithiol bron. Rhaid inni roi sylw i gysur y teithwyr yn ogystal â phris a dibynadwyedd.

If we consider a single rail franchise and an integrated transport policy using rail, bus and any other form of transport that we think is appropriate, our success will be to say that the end of the line is a geographical fact and not a financial or psychological concept.

Os byddwn yn ystyried un fasnachfraint reilffordd a pholisi trafnidiaeth integredig sydd yn defnyddio rheilffyrdd, bysiau ac unrhyw ddull trafnidiaeth eraill sydd yn briodol yn ein barn, bydd llwyddiant yn golygu gallu dweud mai ffaith ddaearyddol yw diwedd y lein, nid cysyniad ariannol na seicolegol.

Janet Davies spoken in English p. 85

Janet Davies siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 85

People who use buses usually do so because they are too young to drive, too poor to be able to afford a car or because they are physically or mentally unable to drive. Buses are often uncomfortable and dirty and the seats are too hard and small. This discriminates against those groups of people. Something must be done about the comfort of bus services. I am pleased that new buses cater for disabled people, but we should be able to travel in comfort on them. When you travel on a bus from Llanharry, where I live, to Cardiff, you nearly hit the roof as you get bumped along on that service.

Mae’r bobl sydd yn defnyddio bysiau yn gwneud hynny fel arfer am eu bod yn rhy ifanc i yrru, yn rhy dlawd i allu fforddio car neu am eu bod yn anabl yn gorfforol neu’n feddyliol i yrru. Mae bysiau yn aml yn anghyfforddus a budr a’r seddau’n rhy galed a bach. Mae hynny’n gwahaniaethu ar gam yn erbyn y grwpiau hynny o bobl. Rhaid gwneud rhywbeth am gyfforddusrwydd gwasanaethau bws. Yr wyf yn falch bod bysiau newydd yn darparu ar gyfer pobl anabl, ond dylem allu teithio arnynt yn gyfforddus, Wrth deithio ar fws o Lanhari, lle’r wyf i’n byw, i Gaerdydd, yr ydych bron â tharo’r to wrth ichi gael eich cloncian ar hyd y daith.

I hope that whoever wins the single rail franchise can prove beforehand that it can provide an effective and efficient service. Trains that do not turn up, turn up late or are filthy dirty do more damage than anything else to the concept of an integrated transport system. Railtrack has a responsibility here. If it does not have the structure in place, the franchise holder will be at a distinct disadvantage.

Gobeithiaf y bydd pwy bynnag sydd yn ennill y fasnachfraint reilffordd sengl yn gallu profi ymlaen llaw y gall ddarparu gwasanaeth effeithiol ac effeithlon. Mae trenau nad ydynt yn rhedeg, sydd yn rhedeg yn hwyr neu sydd yn faw i gyd yn gwneud mwy o ddifrod na dim i’r syniad o system drafnidiaeth integredig. Mae gan Railtrack gyfrifoldeb yma. Os nad yw’r strwythur wedi ei sefydlu ganddo, bydd deilydd y fasnachfraint yn wynebu anfantais sylweddol.

I will give a plug to two proposed railway stations at Brackla and Llanharan. Llanharan station was making a slight profit when Dr Beeching closed it down. The population there has increased recently, and I am sure that it would be a profitable station if it was re-opened.

Yr wyf am roi hys-bys i ddwy orsaf reilffordd arfaethedig ym Mracla a Llanharan. Yr oedd gorsaf Llanharan yn gwneud elw bach pan gaewyd hi gan Dr Beeching. Mae’r boblogaeth yno wedi cynyddu’n ddiweddar, ac yr wyf yn siŵr y byddai’n orsaf broffidiol pe câi ei hailagor.

Mick Bates spoken in English p. 85

Mick Bates siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 85

Many interesting points have been made during this debate. I would like to mention some issues. While I welcome the road improvements that Peter announced, east-west roads in Wales seem to be overlooked. This is particularly true in Objective 2 areas, as it appears that Objective 1 areas will have the major part of the investment.

Gwnaethpwyd llawer o bwyntiau diddorol yn ystod y ddadl hon. Hoffwn sôn am rai o’r materion. Tra’n croesawu’r gwelliannau ffordd a gyhoeddodd Peter, mae ffyrdd dwyrain-gorllewin fel pe baent yn cael eu hanwybyddu yng Nghymru. Mae hyn yn arbennig o wir mewn ardaloedd Amcan 2, gan ei bod yn ymddangos mai ardaloedd Amcan 1 fydd yn cael rhan helaethaf y buddsoddiad.

We must have an integrated vision towards developing community transport. The provision of public transport for passengers other than school children is inevitably a poor compromise of last resort between the desires of a small number of people with no other means of transport and the limited resources with which rural councils can support non-commercial bus services. Inevitably, there is too much compromise and much money is wasted for little satisfaction.

Rhaid wrth gweledigaeth integredig tuag at ddatblygu trafnidiaeth gymunedol. Yn anochel, cyfaddawd gwael yn niffyg dim arall rhwng dymuniadau nifer fechan o bobl heb ddull arall o deithio a’r adnoddau cyfyngedig sydd gan gynghorau gwledig i helpu gwasanaethau bws anfasnachol yw’r ddarpariaeth trafnidiaeth gyhoeddus i deithwyr ar wahân i blant ysgol. Mae’n anorfod bod gormod o gyfaddawdu a llawer o arian yn cael ei wastraffu heb fawr o foddhad.

In these circumstances, the end result of rural mobility could be achieved much more cost-effectively with far greater effect if the councils gave local communities the resources to provide personalised transport in their area. The existing systems of ad hoc voluntary cars, dial-a-ride and community transport schemes should be developed and widely publicised to become the public transport services in areas with no commercial bus operations. This, as a well-established route, would be innovative in Wales. Given that the national lottery has put aside £9 million, this is an achievable goal.

Dan yr amgylchiadau hyn, gellid gwireddu’r nod o symudoledd yng nghefn gwlad yn llawer mwy cost effeithiol a chan ateb y diben yn well pe bai’r cynghorau yn rhoi i gymunedau lleol yr adnoddau i ddarparu trafnidiaeth bersonoledig yn eu hardal. Dylid datblygu’r systemau presennol ad hoc o geir gwirfoddol, ffonio am reid a chynlluniau trafnidiaeth gymunedol i ddod yn wasanaethau trafnidiaeth gyhoeddus mewn ardaloedd heb fawr ddim gwasanaethau bws masnachol, a’u hysbysebu’n eang. Byddai hynny, fel cyfrwng sydd wedi hen ennill ei blwyf, yn torri tir newydd yng Nghymru. O gofio bod y loteri genedlaethol wedi neilltuo £9 miliwn, mae hwn yn nod cyraeddadwy.

We have heard about the publicity of routes. We should develop a one-stop shop with a single phone number through which people could access all available transport in their areas. I was pleased to hear Peter mention that there was such a scheme, but that scheme also needs publicity. Given these things, the Assembly can reduce social exclusion and be proud of an integrated and sustainable transport system in Wales.

Clywsom am y cyhoeddusrwydd i lwybrau. Dylem ddatblygu siop dan-yr-unto gydag un rhif ffôn i’w ddefnyddio gan bobl i gyrchu at yr holl drafnidiaeth sydd ar gael yn eu hardaloedd. Yr oeddwn yn falch o glywed Peter yn crybwyll bod yna gynllun o’r fath, ond mae angen cyhoeddusrwydd ar y cynllun hwnnw hefyd. Ar sail hyn oll, gall y Cynulliad leihau allgáu cymdeithasol ac ymfalchïo mewn system drafnidiaeth integredig a chynaliadwy yng Nghymru.

Peter Law The Secretary for the Environment and Local Government spoken in English p. 86

Peter Law Ysgrifennydd yr Amgylchedd a Llywodraeth Leol siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 86

This is an important debate and I am grateful to all those who have taken part. It would be impossible for me to respond to each individual point. Much of what we all want to achieve will take time and resources, but we are moving positively in the right direction. Janet Ryder spoke about working in partnership. We all know that this happens on a regular basis. Working in partnership is important in working towards this integrated transport policy, particularly through the Committee.

Mae hon yn ddadl bwysig ac yr wyf yn ddiolchgar i bawb sydd wedi cymryd rhan. Byddai’n amhosibl imi ymateb i bob pwynt unigol. Bydd llawer o’r pethau y mae pawb ohonom am eu cyflawni yn cymryd amser ac adnoddau, ond yr ydym yn symud yn bositif i’r cyfeiriad iawn. Soniodd Janet Ryder am weithio mewn partneriaeth. Gŵyr pawb ohonom fod hyn yn digwydd yn rheolaidd. Mae gweithio mewn partneriaeth yn bwysig wrth weithio tuag at y polisi trafnidiaeth integredig hwn, yn enwedig drwy’r Pwyllgor.

I appreciate the contributions by Members of all parties. Many of you have mentioned the north-south train link. I am interested in the Babtie Group’s report on general transport links which the Assembly will receive shortly. The enhancement of rail services is constantly on my mind and I have regular discussions on the subject. I ask you to trust me on that and perhaps we may have some good news in the future. It is important.

Gwerthfawrogaf y cyfraniadau gan Aelodau o bob plaid. Soniodd llawer ohonoch am y cyswllt trên gogledd-de. Mae gennyf ddiddordeb yn adroddiad Grŵp Babtie, a ddaw i’r Cynulliad cyn bo hir, ar gysylltiadau trafnidiaeth gyhoeddus. Mae gwella’r gwasanaethau trên ar fy meddwl yn barhaus a chaf drafodaethau rheolaidd ar y pwnc. Gofynnaf ichi ymddiried ynof yn hynny o beth ac efallai y bydd gennym newydd da ichi yn y dyfodol. Mae’n bwysig.

That brings me to franchise renegotiations. So many of today’s comments have impinged on the franchise renegotiations. Some of you will know that one company is giving a presentation tonight and those who can, should go and ask questions. I hope other companies involved in these franchises will hold similar presentations. It is important that the Assembly is recognised in this way. We should have high quality bus services, to which we have referred. Our transport authorities are working hard to try to produce those sort of proposals, but there is a limited budget, even with the increase that I have given. It takes time, but train operating companies are considering integrating their services with bus services and by working together, we can achieve a lot throughout Wales. That is another way in which the franchise bid will be important for Wales.

Daw hynny â mi at ailnegodi ar y masnachfreintiau. Mae cynifer o’r sylwadau heddiw wedi cyfeirio at hynny. Bydd rhai ohonoch yn gwybod bod un cwmni yn rhoi cyflwyniad heno ac i’r rheini a all fynd, ewch a gofynnwch gwestiynau. Gobeithiaf y bydd cwmnïau eraill sydd a wnelont â’r masnachfreintiau hyn yn cynnal cyflwyniadau tebyg. Mae’n bwysig cydnabod y Cynulliad fel hyn. Dylai fod gennym wasanaethau bws o ansawdd uchel, fel y cyfeiriwyd atynt eisoes. Mae ein hawdurdodau trafnidiaeth yn gweithio’n galed i geisio llunio’r math yma o gynigion, ond cyfyngedig yw’r gyllideb, hyd yn oed gyda’r cynnydd a roddais. Mae’n cymryd amser, ond mae’r cwmnïau trenau yn ystyried integreiddio eu gwasanaethau gyda gwasanaethau bws a, thrwy weithio gyda’n gilydd, gallwn gyflawni llawer ledled Cymru. Dyna ffordd arall y bydd cais y fasnachfraint yn bwysig i Gymru.

I was grateful for William Graham’s positive approach. I said yesterday, William, that we would have a mature approach here today and I noticed it immediately. I am particularly grateful that you welcomed my proposals on roads. Road charges are different in Wales to those in England. Powers here will be discretionary and schemes will need to have the Assembly’s approval. We must look carefully at any such schemes that are brought forward by transport authorities.

Yr oeddwn yn ddiolchgar am agwedd gadarnhaol William Graham. Dywedais ddoe, William, y dylem fod ag agwedd aeddfed yma heddiw a sylwais ar hynny’n syth. Yr wyf yn arbennig o ddiolchgar ichi am groesawu fy nghynigion ar ffyrdd. Mae taliadau ar ffyrdd yn wahanol yng Nghymru i’r rheini yn Lloegr. Pwerau dewisol a geir yma a bydd yn rhaid cael cymeradwyaeth y Cynulliad i gynlluniau. Rhaid inni edrych yn ofalus ar gynlluniau o’r fath a gyflwynir gan yr awdurdodau trafnidiaeth.

I have asked for this Assembly to have the power to appoint a member on the Strategic Rail Authority, which is currently being pursued with the UK Government.

Yr wyf wedi gofyn am i’r Cynulliad hwn gael y grym i benodi aelod i’r Awdurdod Rheilffyrdd Strategol, ac mae hynny’n destun trafod gyda Llywodraeth y DU ar hyn o bryd.

Peter Black mentioned north-south links. The leader of the Opposition has left the Chamber now and I wanted to tell him that I have just announced another improvement on the A470, Llywydd. He is always not in the Chamber when I want to tell him about such announcements. The Tŷ Nant to north Maentwrog is a small improvement, but how many times have we all travelled over the bridge with traffic lights on it? That scheme was costed at £2.7 million and is just about to start, so we are moving forward with another scheme on the A470. These are positive schemes, making a difference in terms of the north-south link.

Soniodd Peter Black am gysylltiadau gogledd-de. Mae arweinydd yr Wrthblaid wedi gadael y Siambr erbyn hyn ac yr oeddwn am ddweud wrtho fy mod newydd gyhoeddi gwelliant arall ar yr A470, Lywydd. Nid yw wastad yn y Siambr pan fyddaf am ddweud wrtho am gyhoeddiadau o’r fath. Gwelliant bach fydd yr un o Dŷ Nant i ogledd Maentwrog, ond sawl gwaith mae pob un ohonom wedi teithio dros y bont gyda goleuadau traffig arni? Costiwyd y cynllun yn £2.7 miliwn ac mae ar fin cychwyn, felly yr ydym yn bwrw ymlaen â chynllun arall ar yr A470. Mae’r rhain yn gynlluniau cadarnhaol, yn gwneud gwahaniaeth o safbwynt y cyswllt gogledd-de.

We would all be concerned about the possibility of carmageddon, as Peter Black mentioned. The Assembly is not against car ownership, but car dependency. Surely that is the point? The car remains an important transport mode in our integrated transport policy. Many issues need to be considered. Mick Bates asked if the east-west roads are being overlooked. They are not. You write to me regularly, Mick, in fact you are one of my best correspondents, so let me know about where you are concerned. You did not mention that I am also dealing with the north-south links for you, about which you often write to me. I try to help you by implementing as many small schemes as I can on the important road that runs up through Welshpool towards Oswestry. Let me know if you know of cases there, but a vehicle per day is crucial on some of these roads and some have more travelling on them than others.

Byddai pawb ohonom yn bryderus am y posibilrwydd o garmagedon, fel y soniodd Peter Black. Nid yw’r Cynulliad yn erbyn bod yn berchen ar gar, ond bod yn ddibynnol arno. Onid dyna’r pwynt? Mae’r car yn dal yn gyfrwng trafnidiaeth pwysig yn ein polisi trafnidiaeth integredig. Rhaid ystyried llawer o faterion. Gofynnodd Mick Bates a yw ffyrdd dwyrain-gorllewin yn cael eu hanwybyddu. Nac ydynt. Yr ydych yn ysgrifennu ataf yn rheolaidd, Mick, yn wir chi yw un o’m gohebwyr gorau, felly rhowch wybod imi am ble yr ydych yn poeni. Ni sonioch fy mod hefyd yn delio â’r cysylltiadau gogledd-de ar eich rhan, yr ydych yn ysgrifennu’n aml ataf amdanynt. Ceisiaf eich helpu drwy roi cynifer o gynlluniau bach ar waith ag y medraf ar y ffordd bwysig sydd yn rhedeg i fyny drwy’r Trallwng tuag at Groesoswallt. Rhowch wybod imi os gwyddoch am achosion yno, ond rhaid cael un cerbyd y dydd ar rai o’r ffyrdd hyn ac mae mwy yn teithio ar rai nag eraill.

The problems facing the transport systems in Wales are clear to us all. The Confederation of British Industry has recently stated that poor transport infrastructure is the major problem for business across the UK. This is particularly the case in Wales. We have a major task ahead of us to bring our transport infrastructure up to scratch. We must also address the level of services available on the infrastructure. We need determination to identify our objectives and to persevere while short-term action takes us in the right direction. It will take time to change people’s attitudes and for infrastructure improvements to be delivered.

Mae’r problemau sydd yn wynebu’r systemau trafnidiaeth yng Nghymru yn amlwg i bawb ohonom. Dywedodd Cyd-ffederasiwn Diwydiant Prydain yn ddiweddar mai seilwaith trafnidiaeth gwael yw’r broblem bennaf i fusnes ar draws y DU. Mae hynny’n arbennig o wir yng Nghymru. Mae gennym dasg fawr o’n blaenau i wella’n seilwaith trafnidiaeth at y safon. Rhaid hefyd inni roi sylw i’r lefel o wasanaethau sydd ar gael ar y seilwaith. Rhaid inni fod yn benderfynol i nodi ein hamcanion a dyfalbarhau tra bo gweithredu yn y tymor byr yn mynd â ni i’r cyfeiriad cywir. Fe gymer amser i newid agweddau pobl ac i wella’r seilwaith.

I welcome the Committee’s recent decision to undertake a policy review of public transport networks in Wales. We are fortunate in that we have a professional—Sue Essex—to chair that Committee. She spoke from the heart today. She speaks as a former member of the Welsh Transport Advisory Group who knows far more than me about the integration of transport. I would be the first to admit that because we have in this Chamber a woman who played a major part in reopening the Valley lines in Glamorgan. That is one of the most visionary things that any authority ever did. I realise that daily. The lines are not of the standard I want them to be, Christine—you are right—but they are there. Those who have no railway at all appreciate what it is to have one. We can benefit from the good work that has been done in reopening those lines and integrating our transport systems. That is why I appreciate Sue Essex’s approach. The South Wales Integrated Fast Transit, the Transport Integration in the Gwent Economic Region and the south-west Wales Integrated Transport Consortia—these important consortia of local authorities—are moving forward to further integrate transport on a day-to-day basis. Developments do not stop there. I recently met representatives from a train company that is involved in a similar development with Wrexham, Powys and Conwy to enhance the rail service in north and mid Wales. That is why I have doubled the amount of money for integrated transport packages from £11 million to £22 million this year.

Croesawaf benderfyniad diweddar y Pwyllgor i gynnal adolygiad polisi o’r rhwydweithiau trafnidiaeth gyhoeddus yng Nghymru. Yr ydym yn ffodus bod gennym rywun proffesiynol—Sue Essex—i gadeirio’r Pwyllgor hwnnw. Siaradodd o’r galon heddiw. Mae’n siarad fel cyn aelod o Grŵp Cynghori Cymru ar Drafnidiaeth sydd yn gwybod llawer mwy na mi am integreiddio trafnidiaeth. Y fi fyddai’r cyntaf i gyfaddef hynny oherwydd bod gennym yn y Siambr hon fenyw a chwaraeodd ran flaenllaw mewn ailagor llinellau’r Cymoedd ym Morgannwg. Dyma un o’r pethau a mwyaf o weledigaeth yn perthyn iddo a wnaeth unrhyw awdurdod erioed. Sylweddolaf hynny bob dyd. Nid yw’r llinellau i’r safon y byddwn yn ei dymuno, Christine—yr ydych yn iawn—ond maent yno. Mae’r rheini sydd heb reilffordd o gwbl yn gwerthfawrogi beth yw cael un. Gallwn elwa o’r gwaith da a wnaethpwyd yn ailagor y llinellau hyn ac yn integreiddio ein systemau trafnidiaeth. Dyna pam yr wyf yn gwerthfawrogi agwedd Sue Essex. Mae Cludiant Cyflym Integredig De Cymru, Integreiddio Trafnidiaeth yn Rhanbarth Economaidd Gwent a Chonsortia Trafnidiaeth Integredig de orllewin Cymru—y consortia pwysig hyn o awdurdodau lleol—yn symud ymlaen i integreiddio trafnidiaeth ymhellach yn feunyddiol. Nid dyna ddiwedd y datblygiadau. Yn ddiweddar cyfarfûm â chwmni trenau sydd yn ymwneud â datblygiad tebyg yn Wrecsam, Powys a Chonwy i wella’r gwasanaeth rheilffyrdd yng ngogledd a chanolbarth Cymru. Dyna pam yr wyf wedi dyblu’r arian i becynnau trafnidiaeth integredig o £11 miliwn i £22 miliwn eleni.

If we have the will, we can achieve much. It is important that we pursue those extra powers. As Ann Jones said, the Transport Bill provides us with a framework to create the accessibility that we want to achieve. One example is the development of the A497 between Abererch and Llanystumdwy. That development should be given your support—that is another thing you missed, Ieuan. It is important because it concerns a community that needs to be opened up. Although I cannot start that scheme at the moment, I recognise how important it is to people in Gwynedd.

Os yw’r ewyllys gennym, gallwn gyflawni llawer. Mae’n bwysig ein bod yn mynd ar ôl y pwerau ychwanegol. Fel y dywedodd Ann Jones, mae’r Mesur Trafnidiaeth yn rhoi inni fframwaith i greu’r hygyrchedd yr ydym am ei wireddu. Un enghraifft yw datblygu’r A497 rhwng Aber-erch a Llanystumdwy. Dylech roi eich cefnogaeth i’r datblygiad—dyna beth arall ichi ei fethu, Ieuan. Mae’n bwysig am ei fod a wnelo â chymuned y mae angen ei hagor i’r tu allan. Er na allaf ddechrau’r cynllun ar hyn o bryd, yr wyf yn cydnabod mor bwysig yw i bobl yng Ngwynedd.

Congestion is our enemy. If it makes Ann bad tempered, it is a definitely an enemy of mine. Owen John Thomas mentioned Cardiff Bay and the transport study group. That is an important example and I would pleased if that experience was used in the important work that we will carry out for the whole of Wales. My concern is delivering quality to the whole of Wales. As far as I am concerned, the old tradition of a ‘that will do’ approach to Valley lines will not be the case from now on. Carwyn Jones was right to say that we must take the opportunity in this refranchising exercise to negotiate the right deal. We need quality and a punctual, reliable rail service. We want accessibility for people, with later and more frequent trains, not just one train per hour with the last one leaving at 8 p.m. That leaves people isolated. That is why the franchise renegotiation is so important. Members must attend these meetings and question the people who want to run these services so that we can make a positive input, as we already have through the Committee. This is very important.

Tagfeydd yw ein gelyn. Os ydynt yn gwneud i Ann golli ei thymer, mae’n sicr yn elyn i minnau. Soniodd Owen John Thomas am Fae Caerdydd a grŵp yr astudiaeth drafnidiaeth. Mae honno’n enghraifft bwysig a byddwn yn falch pe bai’r profiad hwnnw yn cael ei ddefnyddio yn y gwaith pwysig y byddwn yn ei wneud ar ran Cymru gyfan. Yr hyn yr wyf am ei wneud yw sicrhau ansawdd drwy Gymru gyfan. O’m rhan innau, ni fydd hen draddodiad yr agwedd ‘mi wnaiff y tro’ tuag at linellau’r Cymoedd yn dderbyniol mwyach. Yr oedd Carwyn Jones yn iawn i ddweud bod yn rhaid inni achub ar y cyfle wrth adnewyddu’r masnachfreintiau i drafod a chytuno ar y pecyn iawn. Mae arnom angen ansawdd a gwasanaeth trenau prydlon, dibynadwy. Yr ydym am gael hygyrchedd i bobl, gyda threnau hwyrach ac amlach, nid dim ond un trên yr awr gyda’r olaf yn gadael am 8 p.m. Mae hynny’n ynysu pobl. Dyna pam y mae trafodaethau’r masnachfreintiau mor bwysig. Rhaid i’r Aelodau ddod i’r cyfarfodydd a holi’r bobl sydd am gynnal y gwasanaethau hyn fel y gallwn wneud cyfraniad positif, fel a wnaethom eisoes drwy’r Pwyllgor. Mae’n bwysig iawn.

I have noted your comments about Llanharan station, Janet. Janice Gregory has drawn my attention to this problem many times. You have a colleague who is fighting for the same issue. The design work money has already been allocated for Llanharan station and, in the future, I hope that we will see the development of Llanharan station.

Nodais eich sylwadau am orsaf Llanharan, Janet. Mae Janice Gregory wedi tynnu fy sylw at y broblem hon lawer gwaith. Mae gennych gyd-aelod sydd yn ymladd dros yr un mater. Mae’r arian tuag at y gwaith dylunio wedi ei ddyrannu’n barod i orsaf Llanharan ac, yn y dyfodol, gobeithiaf y gwelwn orsaf Llanharan yn cael ei datblygu.

All these points give us the opportunity to draw together and analyse the information and views from a wide range of interested parties, including each of the Assembly’s Regional Committees. This will ensure that the review takes account of the range of transport problems in each region. We are already pursuing a range of policies that are boosting public transport. By 2002, pensioners in Wales will be guaranteed free travel on buses for the first time. That is an important election commitment that we have acted upon. In April, we will have a national, multimodal, public transport information system—accessible by a single telephone number, Mick—with internet access to follow. On behalf of the Assembly, I have contributed almost £400,000 to the capital start-up costs of this scheme. It is very important for Wales.

Mae’r holl bwyntiau hyn yn rhoi’r cyfle inni i gasglu a dadansoddi gwybodaeth a safbwyntiau gan ystod eang o rai sydd â diddordeb, gan gynnwys pob un o Bwyllgorau Rhanbarth y Cynulliad. Bydd hyn yn sicrhau bod yr adolygiad yn ystyried rhychwant y problemau trafnidiaeth ym mhob rhanbarth. Yr ydym eisoes yn mynd ar drywydd ystod o bolisïau sydd yn hybu trafnidiaeth gyhoeddus. Erbyn 2002, bydd cael teithio’n rhad ac am ddim ar fysiau wedi ei warantu i bensiynwyr Cymru am y tro cyntaf. Mae hynny’n addewid etholiadol pwysig yr ydym wedi gweithredu arno. Fis Ebrill, bydd gennym system wybodaeth genedlaethol ac aml-ddull ar gyfer trafnidiaeth gyhoeddus—y cysylltir â hi drwy un rhif ffôn, Mick—gyda mynediad dros y rhyngrwyd i ddilyn. Yr wyf wedi cyfrannu bron i £400,000 tuag at gostau sefydlu’r cynllun hwn. Mae’n bwysig iawn i Gymru.

During the summer I expect to establish a pilot smart card scheme in Caerphilly. Edwina Hart, the Finance Secretary, has already announced that the Assembly will provide up to £600,000 next year in support of that pilot scheme. We are carrying out important developments for Wales, while you chat away among yourselves. We have provided £5 million a year under the bus subsidy grant scheme to boost the number and raise the standard of subsidised local bus services throughout Wales, increasing the provision of socially necessary bus services by more than 60 per cent. The Order to continue this for the next financial year was approved yesterday. This funding is important for elderly people, especially in rural communities. My announcement on transport grant allocations last week is further evidence of our commitment to give positive support to ensure that transport improvements will happen.

Yn ystod yr haf bwriadaf sefydlu cynllun peilot cerdyn clyfar yng Nghaerffili. Mae Edwina Hart, yr Ysgrifennydd Cyllid, eisoes wedi cyhoeddi y bydd y Cynulliad yn darparu hyd at £600,000 y flwyddyn nesaf yn gefn i’r cynllun peilot. Yr ydym yn ymgymryd â datblygiadau pwysig dros Gymru, tra’r ydych chi’n sgwrsio ymysg eich gilydd. Yr ydym wedi darparu £5 miliwn y flwyddyn dan y cynllun grant cymhorthdal bysiau i hybu’r nifer a chodi safon gwasanaethau bws lleol ar gymhorthdal ledled Cymru, gan gynyddu darpariaeth y gwasanaethau bws y mae angen cymdeithasol amdanynt o fwy na 60 y cant. Cymeradwywyd y Gorchymyn i barhau â hyn yn y flwyddyn ariannol nesaf ddoe. Mae’r cyllid hwn yn bwysig i’r henoed, yn enwedig mewn cymunedau gwledig. Mae fy nghyhoeddiad ar ddyraniadau’r grant trafnidiaeth yr wythnos diwethaf yn dystiolaeth bellach o’n hymrwymiad i roi cefnogaeth bositif i sicrhau y ceir gwelliannau trafnidiaeth.

Rhodri Glyn Thomas spoken in English p. 91

Rhodri Glyn Thomas siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 91

I have missed my bus.

Yr wyf wedi colli fy mws.

Dafydd Elis-Thomas The Presiding Officer spoken in English p. 91

Dafydd Elis-Thomas Y Llywydd siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 91

It is getting on a bit.

Mae hi’n mynd yn hwyr.

Peter Law spoken in English p. 91

Peter Law siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 91

I will finish now. I thank Members for their support today. I have no doubt that you will support this in the interests of Wales, which is why I have decided to relieve you from the next six pages of my speech. However, it was such an important issue.

Fe orffennaf yn awr. Diolchaf i’r Aelodau am eu cefnogaeth heddiw. Nid oes gennyf unrhyw amheuaeth y byddwch yn cefnogi hyn er budd Cymru, a dyna pam yr wyf wedi penderfynu peidio â thraddodi chwe thudalen nesaf fy araith. Fodd bynnag, yr oedd yn fater mor bwysig.

Dafydd Elis-Thomas Y Llywydd siaradwyd yn Gymraeg t. 91

Dafydd Elis-Thomas The Presiding Officer spoken in Welsh p. 91

Galwaf bleidlais ar y cynnig ar bolisi trafnidiaeth integredig i Gymru.

I call for a vote on the motion on an integrated transport policy for Wales.

Cynnig Peter Law t. 92

Motion Peter Law p. 92

DerbyniwydAdopted O blaidFor 34 YmatalAbstain 0 Yn erbynAgainst 0

Derbyniwyd y cynnig.

Motion adopted.

Sut y pleidleisiodd yr AelodauHow Members voted
O blaidFor (34)
  • Mick Bates
  • Peter Black
  • Nick Bourne
  • Alun Cairns
  • Christine Chapman
  • Cynog Dafis
  • Andrew Davies
  • Janet Davies
  • Richard Edwards
  • Sue Essex
  • Val Feld
  • Michael German
  • Brian Gibbons
  • William Graham
  • John Griffiths
  • Christine Gwyther
  • Alison Halford
  • Brian Hancock
  • Christine Humphreys
  • Ann Jones
  • Carwyn Jones
  • Elin Jones
  • Ieuan Wyn Jones
  • Peter Law
  • David Lloyd
  • David Melding
  • Jonathan Morgan
  • Alun Pugh
  • Jenny Randerson
  • Janet Ryder
  • Gwenda Thomas
  • Owen John Thomas
  • Rhodri Glyn Thomas
  • Kirsty Williams

Dafydd Elis-Thomas Y Llywydd siaradwyd yn Gymraeg t. 92

Dafydd Elis-Thomas The Presiding Officer spoken in Welsh p. 92

Daw hyn â busnes heddiw i ben. Byddwn yn ailymgynnull, ar ôl yr hanner tymor, ar 29 Chwefror. Diolch yn fawr i’r Aelodau, yn arbennig am y drafodaeth ar fater difrifol y datganiad ar gam-drin plant.

That brings today’s business to an end. We will reconvene, after the recess, on 29 February. Thanks to the Members, especially for the debate on the serious matter of the statement on child abuse.

Daeth y cyfarfod i ben am 5.37 p.m.

The session ended at 5.37 p.m.