Cymraeg

Cynulliad Cenedlaethol CymruNational Assembly for Wales · Cyfarfod llawnPlenary sitting

Dydd Mawrth 6 Mehefin 2000

Tuesday 6 June 2000

DechreuoddMet 14:00 · Daeth i benRose 17:27

Gweld y Cofnod (PDF)View the Record (PDF)

Heb ei wirio â llaw etoNot yet checked by hand

CynnwysContents

  1. 3Datganiad gan y LlywyddStatement by the Presiding Officer
  2. 3Cwestiynau i’r Prif YsgrifennyddQuestions to the First Secretary
    1. 3Polisïau’r Cynulliad (Gogledd Cymru)Assembly Policies (North Wales)
    2. 5Rôl Cynrychiolaeth Swyddfa Ewropeaidd CymruRole of the Representation of the Wales European Office
    3. 7Rhoi Penderfynu Trawsbynciol ar waith yn y CynulliadImplementation of Cross-cutting Decision Making in the Assembly
    4. 10Trafodaethau gyda’r Dirprwy Brif WeinidogDiscussions with the Deputy Prime Minister
    5. 13Rôl Pwyllgor Materion Ewropeaidd y Cynulliad (Y Pedwar Mis Nesaf)Role of the Assembly’s Committee on European Affairs (The Next Four Months)
    6. 15Newidiadau i Gabinet y Cynulliad cyn Toriad yr HafChanges to the Assembly Cabinet before the Summer Recess
    7. 17Polisïau’r Cynulliad ar Dlodi ac Allgáu CymdeithasolAssembly Policies on Poverty and Social Exclusion
  3. 20Cwestiwn BrysUrgent Question
    1. 20Tir Mynydd
  4. 31Pwynt o DrefnPoint of Order
  5. 32Datganiad BusnesBusiness Statement
  6. 35Y Loteri GenedlaetholThe National Lottery 7 o bleidleisiau7 votes

PleidleisiauVotes

PleidlaisVoteO blaidForYmatalAbstainYn erbynAgainstCanlyniadResult
Y Loteri GenedlaetholThe National Lottery
Gwelliant 1Amendment 15000DerbyniwydAdopted
Gwelliant 2Amendment 25010DerbyniwydAdopted
Gwelliant 3Amendment 329220DerbyniwydAdopted
Gwelliant 4Amendment 45100DerbyniwydAdopted
Gwelliant 5Amendment 55100DerbyniwydAdopted
Gwelliant 6Amendment 65100DerbyniwydAdopted
Cynnig wedi’i ddiwygioAmended motion5200DerbyniwydAdopted

TrafodionProceedings

Cyfarfu’r Cynulliad am 2 p.m. gyda’r Llywydd yn y Gadair.

The Assembly met at 2 p.m. with the Presiding Officer in the Chair.

Datganiad gan y Llywydd

Statement by the Presiding Officer

Dafydd Elis-Thomas Y Llywydd siaradwyd yn Gymraeg t. 3

Dafydd Elis-Thomas The Presiding Officer spoken in Welsh p. 3

Ysgrifennodd y Prif Ysgrifennydd ataf i nodi y byddai’n absennol oherwydd ei fod ar waith pwysig yn Ne Cymru Newydd. Felly, o dan Reol Sefydlog Rhif 6.3A, croesawaf y Trefnydd i ateb cwestiynau yn ei le.

The First Secretary wrote to me to note that he would be absent because he is engaged in important work in New South Wales. Therefore, under Standing Order No. 6.3A, I welcome the Business Secretary to answer questions on his behalf.

Cwestiynau i’r Prif Ysgrifennydd

Questions to the First Secretary

Polisïau’r Cynulliad (Gogledd Cymru)

Assembly Policies (North Wales)

Q1 Peter Rogers spoken in English p. 3

C1 Peter Rogers siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 3

What plans does the First Secretary have to develop a strategy to ensure that north Wales is at the forefront of Assembly policies? (OAQ5466)

Pa gynlluniau sydd gan y Prif Ysgrifennydd i ddatblygu strategaeth i sicrhau bod rhan flaenllaw i ogledd Cymru ym mholisïau’r Cynulliad? (OAQ5466)

Andrew Davies The Business Secretary spoken in English p. 3

Andrew Davies Y Trefnydd siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 3

Before I answer Peter’s question, it is appropriate, on behalf of Rhodri Morgan, the leader of our party in Wales, to pay tribute to Dafydd Wigley. We wish him the best of luck in his retirement as party leader. He has made a significant contribution to Welsh politics. It is appropriate that we recognise that.

Cyn imi ateb cwestiwn Peter, mae’n briodol, ar ran Rhodri Morgan, arweinydd ein plaid yng Nghymru, talu teyrnged i Dafydd Wigley. Dymunwn bob lwc iddo wrth iddo ymddeol fel arweinydd ei blaid. Gwnaeth gyfraniad sylweddol i wleidyddiaeth Cymru. Mae’n briodol inni gydnabod hynny.

This administration’s aim is to ensure that all parts of Wales are fully represented in the Assembly’s policies. Our particular support is given to areas of social and economic need. North Wales has a dedicated Assembly economic office in Colwyn Bay, a divisional office in Caernarfon and benefits from targeted work on the Welsh food strategy. Furthermore, a significant part of north Wales is included in the Objective 1 area. That project will swing into action in a month or so. The First Secretary visited north Wales last week to launch the first industrial project to be assisted from the Wales innovation fund—GH Engineering Robotics, a robotics company in Conwy—and attended the Urdd National Eisteddfod in Llandudno.

Nod y weinyddiaeth hon yw sicrhau bod pob rhan o Gymru wedi ei chynrychioli’n llawn ym mholisïau’r Cynulliad. Rhoddwn gefnogaeth arbennig i ardaloedd mewn angen cymdeithasol ac economaidd. Mae gan ogledd Cymru swyddfa economaidd unswydd o eiddo’r Cynulliad ym Mae Colwyn, swyddfa ranbarthol yng Nghaernarfon ac mae’n elwa o waith a dargedwyd ar strategaeth fwyd Cymru. Yn ogystal, mae rhan sylweddol o ogledd Cymru wedi ei chynnwys yn yr ardal Amcan 1. Bydd y prosiect hwnnw yn bwrw iddi ymhen tua mis. Ymwelodd y Prif Ysgrifennydd â gogledd Cymru yr wythnos diwethaf i lansio’r prosiect diwydiannol cyntaf i gael ei gynorthwyo o gronfa arloesi Cymru—GH Engineering Robotics, cwmni roboteg yng Nghonwy—a mynychodd Eisteddfod Genedlaethol yr Urdd yn Llandudno.

Peter Rogers spoken in English p. 4

Peter Rogers siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 4

In Ynys Môn, the proposed Beaumaris marina development has received widespread acclaim from as far away as Brussels and from the partnership of Welsh bodies. It has been described as one of the best-prepared schemes for Objective 1 funding. Is it true that the only way that the Assembly can find to discriminate against that scheme and against north Wales is to have it called in, in far away Cardiff, on dubious planning grounds?

Yn Ynys Môn, mae’r datblygiad marina arfaethedig ym Miwmares wedi derbyn canmoliaeth eang o gyn belled â Brwsel a chan y bartneriaeth o gyrff yng Nghymru. Fe’i disgrifiwyd fel un o’r cynlluniau a baratowyd orau ar gyfer arian Amcan 1. A yw’n wir mai’r unig fodd y gall y Cynulliad ei ganfod i wahaniaethu yn erbyn y cynllun hwnnw ac yn erbyn gogledd Cymru yw peri iddo gael ei alw i mewn, yng Nghaerdydd bell, ar sail cynllunio amheus?

Andrew Davies spoken in English p. 4

Andrew Davies siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 4

It would be inappropriate for me to comment on planning applications and the Assembly’s role in them.

Byddai’n amhriodol imi wneud sylw ar geisiadau cynllunio a rôl y Cynulliad ynddynt.

Gareth Jones siaradwyd yn Gymraeg t. 4

Gareth Jones spoken in Welsh p. 4

O ystyried y nifer o benderfyniadau negyddol sydd wedi effeithio ar gymaint o fudiadau a diwydiannau yn y Gogledd yn ddiweddar, er enghraifft lleihau arian i theatrau a chanolfannau cynghori, y sefyllfa ym Mrychdyn a lleihau grant swyddfa Awdurdod Datblygu Cymru, sut y byddai’r Prif Ysgrifennydd yn egluro wrth drigolion y Gogledd fod eu hardal yn cael sylw teilwng wrth i’r Llywodraeth wneud penderfyniadau?

Considering the number of negative decisions that have affected so many organisations and industries in the North recently, for example reducing funding to theatres and citizens advice bureaux, the situation in Broughton and reducing the Welsh Development Agency office’s grant, how would the First Secretary explain to the residents of the North that their area receives worthy consideration as the Government makes decisions?

Andrew Davies spoken in English p. 4

Andrew Davies siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 4

I reject categorically the underlying assumption in your question that this administration, or the Assembly, is downplaying north Wales. In my answer on behalf of the First Secretary, I made it clear that north Wales is an integral part of Wales and receives as much consideration as west, east or south Wales. That must be our stance as an Assembly and as an administration. I reject wholeheartedly the underlying assumption of your question.

Gwrthodaf yn ddiamod y rhagdybiaeth sylfaenol yn eich cwestiwn bod y weinyddiaeth hon, neu’r Cynulliad, yn bychanu gogledd Cymru. Yn fy ateb ar ran y Prif Ysgrifennydd, rhoddais ar ddeall fod gogledd Cymru’n rhan annatod o Gymru ac yn derbyn cymaint o ystyriaeth â gorllewin, dwyrain neu dde Cymru. Hwnnw yw’r safbwynt y mae’n rhaid inni wrtho fel Cynulliad ac fel gweinyddiaeth. Gwrthodaf yn llwyr ragdybiaeth sylfaenol eich cwestiwn.

Nick Bourne spoken in English p. 4

Nick Bourne siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 4

Today, the Welsh Industrial Development Advisory Board is meeting to consider help for Broughton, north Wales, again. Can you give an undertaking that the Labour Cabinet in Wales will ensure that jobs are safeguarded at the plant and that, unlike a few months ago, the Labour Party will not let Broughton or its employees down?

Heddiw, mae Bwrdd Ymgynghorol Datblygu Diwydiannol Cymru yn cyfarfod i ystyried cymorth i Frychdyn, gogledd Cymru, eto. A allwch roi sicrwydd y bydd y Cabinet Llafur yng Nghymru’n sicrhau y caiff swyddi eu diogelu yn y gwaith hwnnw ac, yn wahanol i ychydig fisoedd yn ôl, na fydd y Blaid Lafur yn siomi Brychdyn na’i weithwyr?

Andrew Davies spoken in English p. 5

Andrew Davies siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 5

There is a question later on the agenda regarding Broughton and BAE Systems. I reject wholeheartedly the assumption that lies behind your question, Nick. This Labour administration and the Westminster Labour Government have not let the workers of Broughton or the people of north Wales down. We reject that wholeheartedly.

Mae cwestiwn yn ddiweddarach ar yr agenda ynghylch Brychdyn a BAE Systems. Gwrthodaf yn llwyr y rhagdybiaeth sydd y tu ôl i’ch cwestiwn, Nick. Nid yw’r weinyddiaeth Lafur hon na’r Llywodraeth Lafur yn San Steffan wedi siomi gweithwyr Brychdyn na phobl gogledd Cymru. Gwrthodwn hynny’n llwyr.

Christine Humphreys spoken in English p. 5

Christine Humphreys siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 5

I must inform you of the feeling in north Wales that the Assembly has little relevance there. People are increasingly losing faith in it. Do you envisage a more enhanced role for the North Wales Regional Committee in north Wales so that we can deal with the problems of people there in a more structured way?

Rhaid imi’ch hysbysu am y teimlad yng ngogledd Cymru nad oes i’r Cynulliad fawr o berthnasedd yno. Mae pobl yn colli ffydd ynddo fwyfwy. A ragwelwch rôl ehangach i Bwyllgor Rhanbarthol Gogledd Cymru yng ngogledd Cymru fel y gallwn ddelio â phroblemau’r bobl sydd yno yn fwy strwythurol?

Andrew Davies spoken in English p. 5

Andrew Davies siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 5

It is a matter of concern if any part of Wales feels neglected or let down. As I said earlier, that applies to all parts of Wales. If it is a common perception, we must address that, as an Assembly and as an administration. It is a matter for the Assembly to decide whether to give greater or enhanced powers to any of the Regional Committees. If there is a perception by people in north Wales that they are badly done by and that the Assembly does not address their needs, it is an erroneous perception. However, if people feel like that, we must address that issue as an institution.

Mae’n destun pryder os yw unrhyw ran o Gymru’n teimlo iddi gael ei hesgeuluso neu ei siomi. Fel y dywedais yn gynharach, mae hynny’n wir am bob rhan o Gymru. Os yw’n ganfyddiad cyffredin, rhaid inni roi sylw i hynny, fel Cynulliad ac fel gweinyddiaeth. Mae’n fater i’r Cynulliad benderfynu pa un a yw’n dymuno rhoi pwerau ychwanegol neu fwy i unrhyw un o’r Pwyllgorau Rhanbarthol. Os oes canfyddiad gan bobl yng ngogledd Cymru eu bod yn cael cam ac nad yw’r Cynulliad yn rhoi sylw i’w hanghenion, mae’n ganfyddiad cyfeiliornus. Fodd bynnag, os yw pobl yn teimlo felly, rhaid inni roi sylw i’r mater hwnnw fel sefydliad.

Rôl Cynrychiolaeth Swyddfa Ewropeaidd Cymru

Role of the Representation of the Wales European Office

C2 David Lloyd siaradwyd yn Gymraeg t. 5

Q2 David Lloyd spoken in Welsh p. 5

A wnaiff y Prif Ysgrifennydd ddatganiad ar rôl cynrychiolaeth Swyddfa Ewropeaidd Cymru ym Mrwsel? (OAQ5468)

Will the First Secretary make a statement on the role of the representation of the Wales European Office in Brussels? (OAQ5468)

Gan fod y Prif Ysgrifennydd yn absennol eto, a wnaiff Andrew Davies ddatganiad?

As the First Secretary is absent again, will Andrew Davies make a statement?

Dafydd Elis-Thomas Y Llywydd siaradwyd yn Gymraeg t. 5

Dafydd Elis-Thomas The Presiding Officer spoken in Welsh p. 5

Mae’n briodol gofyn y cwestiwn fel y cyflwynwyd ef, heb ychwanegu ato, hyd yn oed mewn sefyllfa fel hon.

It is appropriate to ask the question as it was tabled, without adding to it, even in a situation like this.

Andrew Davies spoken in English p. 6

Andrew Davies siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 6

The National Assembly’s first diplomatic representative, Desmond Clifford, is in post and is actively setting up the National Assembly’s office in Brussels. A second official, who will also be permanently based there, will join him shortly. Our office will work closely with the United Kingdom representation, UKREP, in Brussels. The task will be to monitor European developments that are important to Wales and to ensure that Assembly officials can advise the Assembly and its Cabinet of those developments so as to achieve greater understanding in Brussels of the distinctive nature of Welsh needs. Our office will also work closely with the Wales European Centre, with which it will share offices.

Mae cynrychiolydd diplomyddol cyntaf y Cynulliad Cenedlaethol, Desmond Clifford, yn ei swydd ac mae wrthi’n sefydlu swyddfa’r Cynulliad Cenedlaethol ym Mrwsel. Bydd ail swyddog, a leolir yno’n barhaol hefyd, yn ymuno ag ef cyn hir. Bydd ein swyddfa’n gweithio’n agos â chynrychiolaeth y Deyrnas Unedig, UKREP, ym Mrwsel. Y dasg fydd monitro datblygiadau Ewropeaidd sydd o bwys i Gymru a sicrhau y gall swyddogion y Cynulliad hysbysu’r Cynulliad a’i Gabinet am y datblygiadau hynny er mwyn cael mwy o ddealltwriaeth ym Mrwsel o natur neilltuol anghenion Cymru. Bydd ein swyddfa’n gweithio’n agos hefyd â Chanolfan Ewropeaidd Cymru, y bydd yn rhannu swyddfeydd â hi.

David Lloyd siaradwyd yn Gymraeg t. 6

David Lloyd spoken in Welsh p. 6

A ydych yn cytuno bod gallu Swyddfa Ewropeaidd Cymru i weithio dros fuddiannau Cymru ym Mrwsel yn gyfyngedig, gan mai dau berson yn unig a fydd yn gweithio yno? A ydych yn cytuno bod hynny’n annigonol a bod yn rhaid i’r gynrychiolaeth dyfu yn y dyfodol wrth i’r berthynas rhwng Cymru a’r Undeb Ewropeaidd ddatblygu ac esblygu?

Do you agree that the Wales European Office’s ability to work for Wales’s interests in Brussels is limited, as only two people will work there? Do you agree that that is insufficient and that the representation must increase in future as the relationship between Wales and the European Union develops and evolves?

Andrew Davies spoken in English p. 6

Andrew Davies siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 6

Our relationship with Europe, the European Union and the European Commission is important. At this stage, we are establishing the relationship through our office and the Wales European Centre, which we recently joined. There are Assembly representatives on the WEC board. We must establish the relationship before we discuss its development. We must learn to walk before we can run. There may be a case to review those arrangements, but they must first be established.

Mae ein perthynas ag Ewrop, yr Undeb Ewropeaidd a’r Comisiwn Ewropeaidd yn bwysig. Ar hyn o bryd, yr ydym yn sefydlu’r berthynas drwy ein swyddfa a Chanolfan Ewropeaidd Cymru, yr ymunasom â hi’n ddiweddar. Mae cynrychiolwyr o’r Cynulliad ar fwrdd Canolfan Ewropeaidd Cymru. Rhaid inni sefydlu’r berthynas cyn inni drafod ei datblygiad. Rhaid inni ddysgu cerdded cyn y gallwn redeg. Efallai y bydd dadl dros adolygu’r trefniadau hynny, ond rhaid eu sefydlu’n gyntaf.

Glyn Davies spoken in English p. 6

Glyn Davies siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 6

Will Andrew Davies guarantee that all Members, of whatever party, will have the same degree of open access to the WEC office and its officers?

A wnaiff Andrew Davies warantu y caiff yr holl Aelodau, o ba bynnag blaid, yr un graddau o fynediad agored i swyddfa Canolfan Ewropeaidd Cymru a’i swyddogion?

Andrew Davies spoken in English p. 6

Andrew Davies siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 6

We elected members to the WEC board recently. Each party is represented by full or alternate members. The underlying assumption of our membership is that all political parties and their members will have access to decisions made by WEC.

Etholasom aelodau i fwrdd Canolfan Ewropeaidd Cymru yn ddiweddar. Cynrychiolir pob plaid gan aelodau llawn neu rai wrth gefn. Rhagdybiaeth sylfaenol ein haelodaeth yw y bydd yr holl bleidiau gwleidyddol a’u haelodau’n cael mynediad at benderfyniadau a wneir gan Ganolfan Ewropeaidd Cymru.

Ieuan Wyn Jones siaradwyd yn Gymraeg t. 7

Ieuan Wyn Jones spoken in Welsh p. 7

Gellid annog Aelodau’r Cynulliad, os ydynt yn ymweld â Brwsel, i ymweld â swyddfa’r Cynulliad yno er mwyn cael yr wybodaeth ddiweddaraf ynglŷn â datblygiadau a fyddai’n effeithio ar Gymru.

Assembly Members could be encouraged, if visiting Brussels, to visit the Assembly’s office there to obtain the latest information on developments that would affect Wales.

A yw Andrew yn credu y byddai’n beth da pe byddai’r swyddfa ym Mrwsel, o bryd i’w gilydd, yn anfon adroddiad i Aelodau o’r Cynulliad yn amlinellu’r math o faterion a fyddai’n codi yn y dyfodol a allai effeithio ar eu gwaith? Bydd y math hwnnw o wybodaeth yn bwysig os ydym am wneud y defnydd gorau o’n swyddfa ym Mrwsel.

Does Andrew believe that it would be a good thing if the office in Brussels were to send a report to Assembly Members, periodically, outlining the type of issues arising in the future that could affect their work? That type of information will be important if we are to make the best use of our office in Brussels.

Andrew Davies spoken in English p. 7

Andrew Davies siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 7

The Business Committee has considered the Assembly’s relationship with Europe, the European Commission and with WEC and UKREP. I agree that it would be useful for Members to visit the office and WEC whenever they are in Brussels. The Committee on European Affairs visited earlier this year. The idea that the office could report to the Assembly is worthy of consideration. I am sure that our representative, Des Clifford, would be more than happy to see old faces in Brussels. As many Members will know, he is a frequent visitor to the Assembly and is not based in Brussels permanently. This is very much a question of building a dialogue and a relationship.

Mae’r Pwyllgor Busnes wedi ystyried perthynas y Cynulliad ag Ewrop, y Comisiwn Ewropeaidd a chyda Chanolfan Ewropeaidd Cymru a Chynrychiolaeth y DU. Cytunaf y byddai’n ddefnyddiol i’r Aelodau ymweld â’r swyddfa a Chanolfan Ewropeaidd Cymru pryd bynnag y maent ym Mrwsel. Ymwelodd y Pwyllgor Materion Ewropeaidd yn gynharach eleni. Mae’r syniad y gallai’r swyddfa adrodd i’r Cynulliad yn deilwng o ystyriaeth. Yr wyf yn sicr y byddai ein cynrychiolydd, Des Clifford, yn fwy na hapus i weld hen wynebau ym Mrwsel. Fel y gŵyr llawer o’r Aelodau, mae’n ymweld â’r Cynulliad yn aml ac nid yw wedi ei leoli ym Mrwsel yn barhaol. Mae hyn yn fater o adeiladu deialog a pherthynas i raddau helaeth.

Rhoi Penderfynu Trawsbynciol ar waith yn y Cynulliad

Implementation of Cross-cutting Decision Making in the Assembly

Q3 Pauline Jarman spoken in English p. 7

C3 Pauline Jarman siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 7

Will the First Secretary make a statement on his commitment to setting up new institutional mechanisms which implement cross-cutting decision making in the Assembly? (OAQ5473)

A wnaiff y Prif Ysgrifennydd ddatganiad ar ei ymrwymiad i sefydlu mecanweithiau sefydliadol newydd sydd yn rhoi penderfynu trawsbynciol ar waith yn y Cynulliad? (OAQ5473)

Andrew Davies spoken in English p. 7

Andrew Davies siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 7

We are committed to joined-up government and to considering cross-cutting decision making. We have already established mechanisms for promoting that cross-cutting decision making. Those mechanisms range from the Committee on Equality of Opportunity and the Committee on European Affairs to the guidance issued by the Finance Secretary for this year’s budget round. Further proposals will come before the Assembly shortly, including final versions of the sustainable development scheme, which has received widespread commendation for the way it has been working. The voluntary sector scheme and the children and young people strategy will also come before the Assembly. Those mechanisms should establish the Assembly as an exemplar of modern Government.

Yr ydym wedi ymrwymo i lywodraeth gydgysylltiedig ac i ystyried penderfynu trawsbynciol. Yr ydym eisoes wedi sefydlu mecanweithiau ar gyfer hybu’r penderfynu trawsbynciol hwnnw. Mae’r mecanweithiau hynny’n amrywio o’r Pwyllgor Cyfle Cyfartal a’r Pwyllgor Materion Ewropeaidd i’r arweiniad a roddwyd gan yr Ysgrifennydd Cyllid ar gyfer cylch y gyllideb y flwyddyn hon. Daw cynigion pellach gerbron y Cynulliad cyn hir, gan gynnwys fersiynau terfynol y cynllun datblygu cynaliadwy, a gafodd ganmoliaeth eang oherwydd y modd y bu’n gweithio. Bydd y cynllun sector gwirfoddol a’r strategaeth plant a phobl ifanc hefyd yn dod gerbron y Cynulliad. Dylai’r mecanweithiau hynny sefydlu’r Cynulliad fel enghraifft o Lywodraeth fodern.

Pauline Jarman spoken in English p. 8

Pauline Jarman siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 8

Cross-cutting issues are in danger of becoming marginalised by the main Subject Committees because of the workload of those Committees. Therefore, what mechanisms have you considered to ensure that every policy decision is made within the framework of sustainable development?

Mae materion trawsbynciol mewn perygl o gael eu gwthio i’r cyrion gan y prif Bwyllgorau Pwnc oherwydd llwyth gwaith y Pwyllgorau hynny. Felly, pa fecanweithiau a ystyriasoch i sicrhau y gwneir pob penderfyniad polisi oddi mewn i fframwaith datblygu cynaliadwy?

Andrew Davies spoken in English p. 8

Andrew Davies siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 8

Your question is significant. We all recognise inside, if not always outside, the Assembly the pressure of the workload undertaken by the Subject Committees. Cross-cutting themes are central to the way in which the Cabinet and officials aim to do business. Every cross-cutting theme has a Cabinet champion with the responsibility of driving that agenda forward and ensuring that decision making is truly cross-cutting. We want to ensure that those themes are mainstreamed into policy development and not marginalised.

Mae eich cwestiwn yn bwysig. Yr ydym oll yn cydnabod oddi mewn i’r Cynulliad, os nad y tu allan iddo bob amser, bwysau’r llwyth gwaith yr ymgymerir ag ef gan y Pwyllgorau Pwnc. Mae themâu trawsbynciol yn ganolog i’r modd y mae’r Cabinet a swyddogion am weithredu. Mae gan bob thema drawsbynciol ei chefnogwr Cabinet a chanddo’r cyfrifoldeb dros hybu’r agenda honno a sicrhau bod penderfynu’n wirioneddol drawsbynciol. Dymunwn sicrhau y caiff y themâu hynny eu gosod ym mhrif ffrwd datblygu polisi ac nid eu gwthio i’r cyrion.

Dafydd Wigley siaradwyd yn Gymraeg t. 8

Dafydd Wigley spoken in Welsh p. 8

Diolchaf i Andrew am ei eiriau caredig ar ddechrau’r cyfarfod. Diolchaf hefyd i Aelodau eraill o bob plaid sydd wedi ysgrifennu ataf. Y newyddion drwg yw na fyddaf yn diflannu o’r sedd hon am rai wythnosau hyd nes y bydd olynydd. Bryd hynny, byddaf yn eistedd y tu ôl i’r postyn—y sedd draddodiadol ar gyfer arweinydd sydd yn diflannu.

I thank Andrew for his kind words at the beginning of the session. I also thank other Members from every party who have written to me. The bad news is that I will not disappear from this seat for some weeks until a successor is found. I will then sit behind the pillar—the traditional seat for a leader who disappears.

Dilynaf ateb Andrew eiliad yn ôl am y ddogfen ymgynghorol ar y dangosyddion datblygiad cynaliadwy. Rhoddodd Rhodri Morgan arwydd rai wythnosau yn ôl y byddai’r ddogfen honno yn ymddangos o fewn pythefnos. A wnewch chi roi’r dyddiad pan dderbyniwn y ddogfen honno?

I follow Andrew’s answer a second ago about the consultation document on the sustainable development indicators. Rhodri Morgan gave an indication some weeks ago that that document would appear within a fortnight. Will you give the date on which we will receive that document?

Andrew Davies spoken in English p. 9

Andrew Davies siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 9

I cannot comment on the precise timing. However, I will consult with the First Secretary on his return and with my colleague, Christine Gwyther, who is driving forward cross-cutting issues on sustainable development, and come back to you with a firm date. On that issue, I spoke to many organisations and institutions outside the Assembly who are full of praise for the way in which the Assembly and its sustainable development unit have carried out the consultation process. Those groups consist of environmental and green groups, local authorities and many others. They see the consultation process as a welcome development and appreciate the way in which we have approached it. They also say that it is far in advance of the way in which other administrations in the UK are attacking the issue of sustainable development. I will return with a firm date.

Ni allaf wneud sylw ar yr union amseriad. Fodd bynnag, fe ymgynghoraf â’r Prif Ysgrifennydd wedi iddo ddychwelyd a chyda’m cyd-Aelod, Christine Gwyther, sydd yn hybu materion trawsbynciol ar ddatblygu cynaliadwy, ac fe ddof yn ôl atoch gyda dyddiad pendant. Ar y mater hwnnw, siaradais â llawer o gyrff a sefydliadau oddi allan i’r Cynulliad sydd yn llawn clod i’r modd y cyflawnodd y Cynulliad a’i uned datblygu cynaliadwy y broses ymgynghori. Mae’r grwpiau hynny’n cynnwys grwpiau amgylcheddol a gwyrdd, awdurdodau lleol a llawer o rai eraill. Gwelant y broses ymgynghori’n ddatblygiad i’w groesawu a gwerthfawrogant y modd yr ydym wedi ymgymryd â hi. Dywedant hefyd ei bod ymhell ar y blaen i’r modd y mae gweinyddiaethau eraill yn y DU yn mynd i’r afael â mater datblygu cynaliadwy. Byddaf yn dychwelyd â dyddiad pendant.

Christine Chapman spoken in English p. 9

Christine Chapman siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 9

Do you agree that, in promoting our cross-cutting theme of equality of opportunity and, in particular, the enhancement of the status of women in Wales, little is done to further our aims when a Member of this Assembly described the Greenham Common women—who deserve to be respected for their brave actions—as con artists and dropouts? Does that language not perpetuate the inequality that the Conservative Party epitomises but which we are determined to remove?

A gytunwch, wrth hybu ein thema drawsbynciol o gyfle cyfartal ac, yn enwedig, hybu statws menywod yng Nghymru, mai ychydig a wneir i hyrwyddo ein nodau pan ddisgrifia Aelod o’r Cynulliad hwn fenywod Comin Greenham—sydd yn teilyngu parch am eu gweithredoedd dewr—fel hocedwyr a gwrthgilwyr? Onid yw’r ieithwedd honno’n parhau’r anghydraddoldeb y mae’r Blaid Geidwadol yn ei ymgorffori ond yr ydym ni’n benderfynol o’i ddileu?

Andrew Davies spoken in English p. 9

Andrew Davies siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 9

Yes.

Ydyw.

We have been beseeched in the Business Committee to make our answers briefer. Christine Chapman summed up the feelings of many Assembly Members in highlighting the contemptuous attitude that the Conservatives take towards not only this institution but to the work of the brave women of Greenham Common.

Erfyniwyd arnom yn y Pwyllgor Busnes i fyrhau ein hatebion. Crynhôdd Christine Chapman deimladau llawer o Aelodau o’r Cynulliad wrth dynnu sylw at yr ymagwedd ddilornus sydd gan y Ceidwadwyr nid yn unig at y sefydliad hwn ond at waith menywod dewr Comin Greenham.

Kirsty Williams spoken in English p. 10

Kirsty Williams siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 10

Do you recall that, on 3 November 1999, the Assembly voted to review all of its funding for voluntary bodies? That decision has major cross-cutting implications. What is being done to ensure that the review is being carried out in a co-ordinated fashion in all areas?

A gofiwch fod y Cynulliad, ar 3 Tachwedd 1999, wedi pleidleisio i adolygu’r cwbl o’i gyllid i gyrff gwirfoddol? Mae goblygiadau trawsbynciol mawr i’r penderfyniad hwnnw. Beth sydd yn cael ei wneud i sicrhau y cyflawnir yr adolygiad mewn modd cydlynol ym mhob maes?

Andrew Davies spoken in English p. 10

Andrew Davies siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 10

I do not know the details of that. However, I will make enquiries and get back to you on it.

Ni wn fanylion hynny. Fodd bynnag, fe wnaf ymholiadau a deuaf yn ôl atoch ar hynny.

Trafodaethau gyda’r Dirprwy Brif Weinidog

Discussions with the Deputy Prime Minister

Q4 Janet Ryder spoken in English p. 10

C4 Janet Ryder siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 10

What discussions has the First Secretary had with the Deputy Prime Minister to co-ordinate action on issues of common interest with local authorities in areas bordering Wales? (OAQ5476)

Pa drafodaethau a gafodd y Prif Ysgrifennydd â’r Dirprwy Brif Weinidog i gydlynu camau gweithredu ar faterion o ddiddordeb cyffredin gydag awdurdodau lleol mewn ardaloedd sydd yn ffinio ar Gymru? (OAQ5476)

Andrew Davies spoken in English p. 10

Andrew Davies siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 10

The First Secretary has had no such discussions with the Deputy Prime Minister. Welsh local authorities bordering England liaise closely with neighbouring authorities in England on matters of common interest.

Ni chafodd y Prif Ysgrifennydd drafodaethau o’r fath â’r Dirprwy Brif Weinidog. Mae awdurdodau lleol yng Nghymru sydd ar y ffin â Lloegr yn cysylltu’n agos ag awdurdodau cyfagos yn Lloegr ar faterion o ddiddordeb cyffredin.

Janet Ryder spoken in English p. 10

Janet Ryder siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 10

I am sure that you will agree that the Assembly can have relations with Europe and concordats with other UK Government departments. However, important issues of public interest and often of great public concern exist where our appropriate counterpart is the local authority. One example of that is BAE Systems in Broughton. BAE is a major employer in north Wales but also in Cheshire and the Wirral. If the Assembly were to look favourably on a BAE application for grant aid, might we not want to discuss with the local authorities in those areas what contributions they might be able to make towards it? We might also want to suggest that they make representations to the Deputy Prime Minister, who is also Minister for the English regions, regarding such a contribution. What plans do you have to hold talks with Mr Prescott and our neighbours in England about mechanisms or agreements for issues of joint interest?

Yr wyf yn sicr y byddwch yn cytuno y gall y Cynulliad gael cysylltiadau ag Ewrop a choncordatau ag adrannau eraill yn Llywodraeth y DU. Fodd bynnag, ceir materion pwysig sydd o ddiddordeb i’r cyhoedd ac, yn aml, o bryder mawr i’r cyhoedd mai awdurdod lleol yw ein cyfatebydd priodol. Un enghraifft o hynny yw BAE Systems ym Mrychdyn. Mae BAE yn gyflogwr o bwys yng ngogledd Cymru ond hefyd yn Swydd Gaer a Chilgwri. Pe bai’r Cynulliad yn bleidiol i gais BAE am gymorth grant, oni fyddem efallai’n dymuno trafod â’r awdurdodau lleol yn yr ardaloedd hynny yr hyn y byddent o bosibl yn gallu ei gyfrannu tuag ato? Efallai y byddem hefyd yn dymuno awgrymu eu bod yn cyflwyno sylwadau i’r Dirprwy Brif Weinidog, sydd hefyd yn Weinidog dros ranbarthau Lloegr mewn perthynas â chyfraniad o’r fath. Pa gynlluniau sydd gennych i gynnal trafodaethau â Mr Prescott a’n cymdogion yn Lloegr, ynghylch mecanweithiau neu gytundebau ar gyfer materion o gyd-ddiddordeb?

Andrew Davies spoken in English p. 11

Andrew Davies siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 11

In my reply, I said that there had been no such discussions with the Deputy Prime Minister. However, that does not mean that there has been no discussion between officials. Regular meetings take place between officials of the Assembly’s Planning Division and its equivalent in the north-west regional office of the Department of the Environment, Transport and the Regions, to discuss matters of common interest such as planning, economic development and so on. There are many urgent issues for you and others living in north-east Wales and those discussions are ongoing.

Yn fy ateb, dywedais na fu trafodaethau o’r fath â’r Dirprwy Brif Weinidog. Fodd bynnag, ni olyga hynny na fu unrhyw drafodaeth rhwng swyddogion. Ceir cyfarfodydd rheolaidd rhwng swyddogion o Is-adran Gynllunio’r Cynulliad a’r hyn sydd yn cyfateb iddi yn swyddfa ranbarthol gogledd-orllewin Adran yr Amgylchedd, Trafnidiaeth a’r Rhanbarthau, er mwyn trafod materion o ddiddordeb cyffredin megis cynllunio, datblygu economaidd ac ati. Mae llawer o faterion brys i chi ac eraill sydd yn byw yng ngogledd-ddwyrain Cymru ac mae’r trafodaethau hynny’n mynd rhagddynt.

Michael German spoken in English p. 11

Michael German siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 11

The Deputy Prime Minister is responsible for the planting of genetically modified crops in Flintshire, in breach of the concordat between his department and the Assembly. We had a debate on genetic modification in this Chamber less than two weeks ago and the Assembly’s views and beliefs were clearly expressed. Will you define what the Cabinet meant when its official spokesman told the media, while we were debating genetic modification, that Assembly motions are merely aspirations?

Mae’r Dirprwy Brif Weinidog yn gyfrifol am blannu cnydau a addaswyd yn enetig yn Sir y Fflint, yn groes i’r concordat rhwng ei adran a’r Cynulliad. Cawsom ddadl ar addasu genetig yn y Siambr hon lai na phythefnos yn ôl a mynegwyd safbwyntiau a chredoau’r Cynulliad yn glir. A wnewch ddiffinio’r hyn a olygai’r Cabinet pan ddywedodd ei lefarydd swyddogol wrth y cyfryngau, tra yr oeddem yn trafod addasu genetig, mai dim ond dyheadau yw cynigion y Cynulliad?

Andrew Davies spoken in English p. 11

Andrew Davies siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 11

Decisions made by the Assembly on matters within its powers are the Assembly’s intention and will be acted upon. If we make decisions on matters outside our powers, those decisions are aspirations only. We must remember that. That is all that I can say in response.

Penderfyniadau a wneir gan y Cynulliad ar faterion sydd oddi mewn i’w bwerau yw bwriad y Cynulliad a gweithredir arnynt. Os penderfynwn ar faterion sydd y tu hwnt i’n pwerau, dyheadau’n unig yw’r penderfyniadau hynny. Rhaid inni gofio hynny. Dyna’r cwbl y gallaf ei ddweud mewn ymateb.

Rod Richards spoken in English p. 11

Rod Richards siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 11

I was interested to note that the First Secretary is in New South Wales. Can the Business Secretary tell the Assembly whether the First Secretary has plans to visit Cheshire in England, where some 38 per cent of the BAE Systems’ workforce, formerly at Broughton, now work? Does the Government recognise that that 38 per cent of the workforce do not have a political mechanism by which to make representations to the First Secretary, who holds their future in his hands? Does the Government recognise the constitutional problem of people in England being affected by decisions in Wales, where they do not have political representation?

Yr oedd yn ddiddorol gennyf nodi bod y Prif Ysgrifennydd yn Ne Cymru Newydd. A all y Trefnydd ddweud wrth y Cynulliad a oes gan y Prif Ysgrifennydd gynlluniau i ymweld â Swydd Gaer yn Lloegr, lle y mae tua 38 y cant o weithlu BAE Systems, a oedd cynt ym Mrychdyn, bellach yn gweithio? A yw’r Llywodraeth yn cydnabod nad oes gan y 38 y cant hwnnw o’r gweithlu fecanwaith gwleidyddol y gallant gyflwyno sylwadau drwyddo i’r Prif Ysgrifennydd, sydd yn dal eu dyfodol yn ei ddwylo? A yw’r Llywodraeth yn cydnabod y broblem gyfansoddiadol o bobl yn Lloegr yn cael eu heffeithio gan benderfyniadau yng Nghymru, lle nad oes ganddynt gynrychiolaeth wleidyddol?

Andrew Davies spoken in English p. 12

Andrew Davies siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 12

The First Secretary can only make decisions on matters within the powers delegated to the Assembly and to himself. The development of Broughton or anywhere else in Wales is close to his heart. The assumption that the First Secretary has neglected those duties is erroneous. Rhodri Morgan has been vigorous in promoting industrial development, particularly at Broughton, and has encouraged the creation of jobs there. I reject out of hand the assumption that he is somehow neglecting the people of north Wales.

Ni all y Prif Ysgrifennydd ond gwneud penderfyniadau ar faterion sydd oddi mewn i’r pwerau a ddirprwywyd i’r Cynulliad ac iddo ef. Mae datblygiad Brychdyn neu unrhyw le arall yng Nghymru yn agos i’w galon. Mae’r rhagdybiaeth bod y Prif Ysgrifennydd wedi esgeuluso’r dyletswyddau hynny yn gyfeiliornus. Bu Rhodri Morgan wrthi’n egnïol yn hybu datblygu diwydiannol, yn enwedig ym Mrychdyn, ac anogodd greu swyddi yno. Gwrthodaf ar unwaith y rhagdybiaeth ei fod rywsut yn esgeuluso pobl gogledd Cymru.

David Davies siaradwyd yn Gymraeg ac yn Saesneg t. 12

David Davies spoken in Welsh and English p. 12

Ar ran y grŵp Ceidwadol, yr wyf hefyd yn dymuno’n dda i Dafydd Wigley.

in Welsh On behalf of the Conservative group, I also wish Dafydd Wigley well.

Does Andrew agree that local authorities in border regions are becoming concerned about the businesses in those areas that find it difficult to compete with businesses across the border? Unlike businesses in England, businesses in Wales receive no transitional business tax relief unless they are very small, with a rateable value of less than £20,000. What will he do to tackle that imbalance and the difficulty that Welsh businesses in border areas and other parts of Wales find in competing with businesses in England?

yn Saesneg A yw Andrew yn cytuno bod awdurdodau lleol yn rhanbarthau’r ffin yn dechrau pryderu am y busnesau yn yr ardaloedd hynny sydd yn ei chael yn anodd cystadlu â busnesau ar ochr arall y ffin? Yn wahanol i fusnesau yn Lloegr, nid yw busnesau yng Nghymru’n derbyn gostyngiad treth busnes trosiannol oni bai eu bod yn fach iawn, gyda gwerth ardrethol o lai na £20,000. Beth a wnaiff i fynd i’r afael â’r anghydbwysedd hwnnw a’r anhawster y mae busnesau Cymreig yn ardaloedd y ffin a rhannau eraill o Gymru yn ei gael wrth gystadlu â busnesau yn Lloegr?

Andrew Davies spoken in English p. 12

Andrew Davies siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 12

We must consider those issues and address them, where we have the power to do so. If businesses in Wales are at a disadvantage, and if such an imbalance exists, we must consider it and seek to redress the imbalance.

Rhaid inni ystyried y materion hynny a rhoi sylw iddynt, lle y mae gennym y pŵer i wneud hynny. Os yw busnesau yng Nghymru dan anfantais, ac os ceir anghydbwysedd o’r fath, rhaid inni ei ystyried a cheisio unioni’r anghydbwysedd.

Glyn Davies spoken in English p. 12

Glyn Davies siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 12

You had better tell Peter Law that.

Byddai’n well ichi ddweud hynny wrth Peter Law.

Peter Law spoken in English p. 12

Peter Law siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 12

You can ask me a question tomorrow.

Cewch ofyn cwestiwn i mi yfory.

Dafydd Elis-Thomas The Presiding Officer spoken in English p. 13

Dafydd Elis-Thomas Y Llywydd siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 13

Order. It is not tomorrow yet.

Trefn. Nid yw’n yfory eto.

Rôl Pwyllgor Materion Ewropeaidd y Cynulliad (Y Pedwar Mis Nesaf)

Role of the Assembly’s Committee on European Affairs (The Next Four Months)

C5 Cynog Dafis siaradwyd yn Gymraeg t. 13

Q5 Cynog Dafis spoken in Welsh p. 13

A wnaiff y Prif Ysgrifennydd ddatganiad ar rôl Pwyllgor Materion Ewropeaidd y Cynulliad yn ystod y pedwar mis nesaf? (OAQ5472)

Will the First Secretary make a statement on the role of the Assembly’s Committee on European Affairs during the next four months? (OAQ5472)

Andrew Davies spoken in English p. 13

Andrew Davies siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 13

The role of the Committee is set out in the Standing Orders. It is not a matter for the Executive or the Cabinet. Members of the Committee are due to discuss its future role in a meeting on 8 June. There will be a debate in Plenary on matters related to the European Union on 27 June.

Nodir rôl y Pwyllgor yn y Rheolau Sefydlog. Nid yw’n fater i’r Weithrediaeth nac i’r Cabinet. Mae aelodau o’r Pwyllgor i fod i drafod ei rôl yn y dyfodol mewn cyfarfod ar 8 Mehefin. Bydd dadl yn y Cyfarfod Llawn ar faterion sydd yn ymwneud â’r Undeb Ewropeaidd ar 27 Mehefin.

Cynog Dafis siaradwyd yn Gymraeg t. 13

Cynog Dafis spoken in Welsh p. 13

Gan dderbyn y pwynt mai’r Pwyllgor sydd yn penderfynu, a yw Andrew Davies yn derbyn bod anfodlonrwydd ymysg rhai o aelodau’r Pwyllgor ynglŷn â’i waith hyd yn hyn? A yw’n cytuno bod y cysylltiad rhwng y Cynulliad a’r Undeb Ewropeaidd yn allweddol i’n dyfodol ac i Gymru o ran ymateb i ddatblygiadau polisi’r Undeb a’u haddasu i Gymru, ac wrth geisio dylanwadu ar bolisi’r Undeb i hyrwyddo lles Cymru? Sut y mae Andrew Davies a’r Prif Ysgrifennydd yn gweld rôl y Pwyllgor Materion Ewropeaidd yn datblygu i sicrhau bod y ddwy dasg hynny yn cael eu cyflawni’n effeithiol? A oes ganddynt dargedau ar gyfer cyflawni’r newidiadau hynny?

Accepting the point that the Committee decides, does Andrew Davies accept that there is dissatisfaction among some Committee members regarding its work to date? Does he agree that the link between the Assembly and the European Union is crucial to our future and to Wales in terms of responding to the Union’s policy developments and adapting them for Wales, and in trying to influence the Union’s policy to promote the benefit of Wales? How do Andrew Davies and the First Secretary see the role of the Committee on European Affairs developing to ensure that those two tasks are accomplished effectively? Do they have targets for achieving those changes?

Andrew Davies spoken in English p. 13

Andrew Davies siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 13

I am not a member of the Committee on European Affairs. However, if there is dissatisfaction among members of the Committee about how it is working, it is their responsibility to address those issues and discuss the remit and working of the Committee. As I said in response to Dai Lloyd about relations with Europe and the European Union, these are early days and we are establishing a relationship with the European Union. The Business Committee, as your business manager will confirm, has discussed this issue many times, considering how we can influence European legislation and directives, for example, at an early stage. That is one of the reasons why we have established a diplomatic representative in Europe and joined the board of the Wales European Centre. However, it is a matter for members of the Committee and political parties represented on it to raise concerns and to seek to ensure that the Committee addresses those concerns.

Nid wyf yn aelod o’r Pwyllgor Materion Ewropeaidd. Fodd bynnag, os oes anfodlonrwydd ymysg aelodau’r Pwyllgor am y modd y mae’n gweithio, eu cyfrifoldeb hwy yw rhoi sylw i’r materion hynny a thrafod cylch gwaith a gweithrediad y Pwyllgor. Fel y dywedais wrth ymateb i Dai Lloyd am gysylltiadau ag Ewrop a’r Undeb Ewropeaidd, dyddiau cynnar yw’r rhain ac yr ydym yn sefydlu perthynas â’r Undeb Ewropeaidd. Mae’r Pwyllgor Busnes, fel y bydd eich rheolwr busnes yn cadarnhau, wedi trafod y mater hwn lawer gwaith, gan ystyried sut y gallwn ddylanwadu ar ddeddfwriaeth a chyfarwyddebau Ewropeaidd, er enghraifft, yn gynnar yn y broses. Dyna un o’r rhesymau pam y sefydlasom gynrychiolydd diplomyddol yn Ewrop ac ymuno â bwrdd Canolfan Ewropeaidd Cymru. Fodd bynnag, mater i aelodau’r Pwyllgor a’r pleidiau gwleidyddol a gynrychiolir arno yw codi pryderon a cheisio sicrhau bod y Pwyllgor yn rhoi sylw i’r pryderon hynny.

Jonathan Morgan spoken in English p. 14

Jonathan Morgan siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 14

Is the Business Secretary aware of the European Commission’s recently announced communications strategy, which is aimed at promoting understanding about the enlargement of the European Union, focusing on politicians, organisations and business leaders in the member states? Is the Executive aware of that strategy and what plans does it have to debate it in the Assembly and in Committee?

A yw’r Trefnydd yn ymwybodol o strategaeth gyfathrebu’r Comisiwn Ewropeaidd a gyhoeddwyd yn ddiweddar, sydd yn ceisio hybu dealltwriaeth ynghylch ehangu’r Undeb Ewropeaidd, gan ganolbwyntio ar wleidyddion, cyrff ac arweinwyr busnes yn yr aelod wladwriaethau? A yw’r Weithrediaeth yn ymwybodol o’r strategaeth honno a pha gynlluniau sydd ganddi i gael dadl arni yn y Cynulliad ac yn y Pwyllgor?

Andrew Davies spoken in English p. 14

Andrew Davies siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 14

We are aware of the strategy. We have nothing planned in terms of scheduling a business meeting. It may be appropriate for the Committee on European Affairs to consider this issue.

Yr ydym yn ymwybodol o’r strategaeth. Nid ydym wedi cynllunio unrhyw beth o ran amserlennu cyfarfod busnes. Gallai fod yn briodol i’r Pwyllgor Materion Ewropeaidd ystyried y mater hwn.

Mick Bates spoken in English p. 14

Mick Bates siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 14

As a party, we too are concerned about the effectiveness of the Committee on European Affairs. We are extremely concerned about the flow of information. We want to hear what you, as Business Secretary, and the First Secretary, are doing to improve that flow of information, given that this administration has made so many mistakes, particularly in agriculture. We are in the middle of a crisis over genetically modified organisms.

Fel plaid, yr ydym ninnau hefyd yn bryderus ynghylch effeithiolrwydd y Pwyllgor Materion Ewropeaidd. Yr ydym yn bryderus tu hwnt ynghylch y llif o wybodaeth. Dymunwn glywed beth yr ydych chi, fel Trefnydd, a’r Prif Ysgrifennydd, yn ei wneud i wella’r llif gwybodaeth hwnnw, o ystyried bod y weinyddiaeth hon wedi gwneud cynifer o gamgymeriadau, yn enwedig mewn amaethyddiaeth. Yr ydym ar ganol argyfwng ynghylch organebau a addaswyd yn enetig.

Andrew Davies spoken in English p. 14

Andrew Davies siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 14

You will not be surprised, Mick, if I disagree with the fundamental assumption behind your question, which is that this administration is failing to provide information or give a lead. Once again I say, as in response to Cynog’s original question, that it is not a matter for the Executive or Cabinet how the Committee on European Affairs runs its business. It is a matter for the Committee and the Assembly.

Ni fyddwch yn synnu, Mick, os anghytunaf â’r rhagdybiaeth sylfaenol y tu ôl i’ch cwestiwn, sef bod y weinyddiaeth hon yn methu â darparu gwybodaeth neu roi arweiniad. Dywedaf unwaith eto, fel yn fy ymateb i gwestiwn gwreiddiol Cynog, nad mater i’r Weithrediaeth nac i’r Cabinet yw’r modd y mae’r Pwyllgor Materion Ewropeaidd yn cynnal ei fusnes. Mae’n fater i’r Pwyllgor ac i’r Cynulliad.

Newidiadau i Gabinet y Cynulliad cyn Toriad yr Haf

Changes to the Assembly Cabinet before the Summer Recess

C6 Rhodri Glyn Thomas siaradwyd yn Gymraeg t. 15

Q6 Rhodri Glyn Thomas spoken in Welsh p. 15

A oes gan y Prif Ysgrifennydd fwriad i wneud newidiadau i Gabinet y Cynulliad cyn toriad yr haf? (OAQ5474)

Does the First Secretary have proposals to make changes to the Assembly Cabinet before the summer recess? (OAQ5474)

Andrew Davies spoken in English p. 15

Andrew Davies siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 15

The powers of the First Secretary have been delegated to me in his absence. Taking his place in Australia would be a tempting prospect.

Dirprwywyd pwerau’r Prif Ysgrifennydd i mi yn ei absenoldeb. Byddai cymryd ei le yn Awstralia yn syniad deniadol.

Speculation and rumour are the small change of the media on the fringes of any democratic system, but are rarely, if ever, related to fact. As laid down in Standing Order No. 2.4, the First Secretary will inform the Assembly of any changes to the Cabinet.

Mae dyfalu a sïon yn fanion yn y cyfryngau ar ymylon unrhyw system ddemocrataidd, ond anaml, os byth, y bydd cysylltiad rhyngddynt a’r gwir. Fel y nodir yn Rheol Sefydlog Rhif 2.4, bydd y Prif Ysgrifennydd yn hysbysu’r Cynulliad am newidiadau i’r Cabinet.

Rhodri Glyn Thomas siaradwyd yn Gymraeg t. 15

Rhodri Glyn Thomas spoken in Welsh p. 15

Mae’n gwestiwn amserol a pherthnasol, gan fod y Prif Ysgrifennydd a’r Ysgrifennydd Datblygu Economaidd unwaith eto yn absennol o’r Siambr hon ar ryw draethell bell yn Awstralia. A yw Andrew yn derbyn bod hynny yn creu anfodlonrwydd yn y Cynulliad? Yn ogystal, a yw’n derbyn bod y penderfyniad i gynyddu nifer y Pwyllgorau o chwech i saith yn creu problemau gweinyddol mawr yn y Cynulliad? Er y deallwn fod y Prif Ysgrifennydd yn cael trafferth wrth wneud penderfyniadau, a allai brysuro â’r penderfyniadau hyn er hwyslustod i’r Cynulliad?

It is a timely and relevant question, as the First Secretary and the Secretary for Economic Development is once again absent from this Chamber on some far-flung beach in Australia. Does Andrew accept that that creates dissatisfaction in the Assembly? In addition, does he accept that the decision to increase the number of Committees from six to seven creates great administrative problems in the Assembly? Although we understand that the First Secretary has difficulty in making decisions, could he make these decisions quickly for the Assembly’s convenience?

Andrew Davies spoken in English p. 15

Andrew Davies siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 15

When I first saw Rhodri Glyn Thomas’s question I thought that maybe his concern was more about his own position in view of the leadership battle that is about to engulf his own party. Rhodri Morgan is a very effective First Secretary and Secretary for Economic Development. If he were not undertaking official visits to European countries such as France a few weeks ago or to Australia now, he would be criticised for being parochial and insular. The last time he went I was questioned by a member of your party on this issue. Is it the position of your party that the First Secretary should not undertake these tours abroad and therefore promote Wales throughout the European Union and the wider world? Rhodri has made it clear—as is laid out in our Standing Orders—that if there are any changes to be made to the Cabinet which might have an impact on Subject Committees, he will inform the Assembly of his decision at the earliest opportunity.

Pan welais gwestiwn Rhodri Glyn Thomas gyntaf credais ei fod efallai’n pryderu’n fwy am ei sefyllfa ei hun yng ngolwg y frwydr arweinyddiaeth sydd ar fin traflyncu ei blaid ei hun. Mae Rhodri Morgan yn Brif Ysgrifennydd ac Ysgrifennydd Datblygu Economaidd effeithiol iawn. Pe na bai’n ymgymryd ag ymweliadau swyddogol â gwledydd Ewropeaidd fel Ffrainc ychydig wythnosau’n ôl neu ag Awstralia yn awr, fe’i cyhuddid o fod yn blwyfol ac yn ynysig. Y tro diwethaf yr aeth fe’m holwyd gan aelod o’ch plaid ar y mater hwn. Ai safbwynt eich plaid yw na ddylai’r Prif Ysgrifennydd ymgymryd â’r teithiau tramor hyn ac felly hyrwyddo Cymru ledled yr Undeb Ewropeaidd a’r byd y tu hwnt? Mae Rhodri wedi rhoi ar ddeall—fel y nodir yn ein Rheolau Sefydlog—os oes unrhyw newidiadau i’w gwneud i’r Cabinet a allai effeithio ar Bwyllgorau Pwnc, y bydd yn hybysu’r Cynulliad am ei benderfyniad ar y cyfle cyntaf.

William Graham spoken in English p. 16

William Graham siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 16

Are you concerned that one of the most pressing issues is the separation of the post of First Secretary and Secretary for Economic Development?

A ydych yn bryderus mai un o’r materion mwyaf brys yw gwahanu swydd y Prif Ysgrifennydd a’r Ysgrifennydd Datblygu Economaidd?

Andrew Davies spoken in English p. 16

Andrew Davies siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 16

No.

Nac ydwyf.

Jenny Randerson spoken in English p. 16

Jenny Randerson siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 16

I was pleased to hear you say that the First Secretary would inform us about any changes to the Cabinet. Do you agree that there is a need to review the practice by which Cabinet Secretaries frequently make announcements to the media first about policy or decisions and then take them to Committees for discussion? Do you also agree that it is a counterproductive practice and that unless announcements are genuinely urgent they should be made known to the relevant Committee members first?

Yr oeddwn yn falch o’ch clywed yn dweud y byddai’r Prif Ysgrifennydd yn ein hysbysu am unrhyw newidiadau i’r Cabinet. A gytunwch fod angen adolygu’r arfer lle y bydd Ysgrifenyddion Cabinet yn aml yn gwneud cyhoeddiadau i’r cyfryngau’n gyntaf am bolisi neu benderfyniadau ac wedyn yn mynd â hwy i Bwyllgorau i’w trafod? A gytunwch hefyd ei fod yn arfer gwrthgynhyrchiol ac oni bai fod cyhoeddiadau ar frys gwirioneddol y dylid rhoi gwybod amdanynt i’r aelodau Pwyllgor perthnasol yn gyntaf?

Andrew Davies spoken in English p. 16

Andrew Davies siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 16

Once again, I would not agree with the underlying assumption that my colleagues are doing this as a regular practice. My colleagues regularly make statements in Plenary about major policy issues. On a whole raft of policy areas and a range of issues, my colleagues regularly discuss decisions and policy issues with the Chairs and members of the relevant Subject Committees. Whenever possible, we work with all the other political parties and their spokespeople. In the Assembly’s first year, the record has been commendable. It is in marked contrast to the workings of other institutions, particularly Westminster.

Unwaith eto, ni chytunwn â’r rhagdybiaeth sylfaenol bod fy nghyd-Aelodau yn gwneud hyn fel arfer rheolaidd. Mae fy nghyd-Aelodau yn gwneud datganiadau’n rheolaidd yn y Cyfarfod Llawn ynghylch materion polisi o bwys. Ar lu o feysydd polisi ac amrediad o faterion, mae fy nghyd-Aelodau yn trafod penderfyniadau a materion polisi yn rheolaidd â Chadeiryddion ac aelodau’r Pwyllgorau Pwnc perthnasol. Pryd bynnag y bo modd, gweithiwn gyda’r holl bleidiau gwleidyddol eraill a’u llefaryddion. Ym mlwyddyn gyntaf y Cynulliad, bu’r record yn ganmoladwy. Mae’n gwbl wahanol i weithrediadau sefydliadau eraill, yn enwedig San Steffan.

Polisïau’r Cynulliad ar Dlodi ac Allgáu Cymdeithasol

Assembly Policies on Poverty and Social Exclusion

Q7 Brian Gibbons spoken in English p. 17

C7 Brian Gibbons siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 17

Will the First Secretary make a statement on the priorities of the Assembly’s policies on poverty and social exclusion? (OAQ5478)

A wnaiff y Prif Ysgrifennydd ddatganiad ar flaenoriaethau polisïau’r Cynulliad ar dlodi ac allgáu cymdeithasol? (OAQ5478)

Andrew Davies spoken in English p. 17

Andrew Davies siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 17

Tackling social disadvantage is one of the three major themes which is set out in ‘Betterwales.com’. This strategic plan emphasises our commitment to developing a better quality of life in our most deprived communities. Poverty is at the heart of social disadvantage. In March, we launched an extensive and comprehensive consultation exercise on our proposals for Communities First, a new approach to long-term community regeneration in Wales. We are receiving a great deal of positive reaction to this proposal, which we will turn into firm proposals in the autumn. They will be debated in Plenary and in Subject Committees. A key factor in addressing poverty is sustained economic regeneration, which is everyone’s priority for action.

Mynd i’r afael ag anfantais gymdeithasol yw un o’r tair thema fawr a gyflwynir yn ‘Gwellcymru.com’. Mae’r cynllun strategol hwn yn pwysleisio ein hymrwymiad i ddatblygu gwell ansawdd bywyd yn ein cymunedau mwyaf difreintiedig. Tlodi sydd wrth graidd anfantais gymdeithasol. Ym Mawrth, lansiasom ymarfer ymgynghori helaeth a chynhwysfawr ar ein cynigion ar gyfer Cymunedau’n Gyntaf, dull newydd o ymdrin ag adfywio cymunedol tymor hir yng Nghymru. Yr ydym yn derbyn llawer iawn o ymateb cadarnhaol i’r cynnig hwn, y byddwn yn ei droi’n gynigion pendant yn yr hydref. Fe’u trafodir yn y Cyfarfod Llawn ac yn y Pwyllgorau Pwnc. Un ffactor allweddol wrth ymdrin â thlodi yw adfywio economaidd cynaledig, sydd yn flaenoriaeth gweithredu gan bawb.

Brian Gibbons spoken in English p. 17

Brian Gibbons siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 17

Do you agree that one of the key objectives behind this flagship policy, Communities First, is to address social deprivation and exclusion throughout Wales, whether it is in rural, urban or valleys communities. The success of the programme must be underpinned by an allocation formula that is clearly focused on social and economic deprivation.

A gytunwch mai un o’r amcanion allweddol y tu ôl i’r polisi blaengar hwn, Cymunedau’n Gyntaf, yw ymdrin ag amddifadedd ac allgáu cymdeithasol ledled Cymru, boed mewn cymunedau gwledig, trefol neu rai’r cymoedd. Rhaid ategu llwyddiant y rhaglen drwy fformwla ddyrannu sydd yn canolbwyntio’n eglur ar amddifadedd cymdeithasol ac economaidd.

Andrew Davies spoken in English p. 17

Andrew Davies siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 17

This administration administers for the whole of Wales, not for particular parts of Wales but for all parts, be they rural or urban, in north, south, east or west. That is our underlying principle and philosophy. As you rightly said, we must address the underlying causes of social deprivation. In terms of a formula for the allocation of resources, the Objective 1 programme is a major opportunity for us in Wales over the next seven years to help attack the fundamental and underlying causes of social deprivation and poverty in Wales.

Mae’r weinyddiaeth hon yn gweinyddu ar gyfer Cymru gyfan, nid ar gyfer rhannau penodol o Gymru, ond ar gyfer pob rhan, boed hwy’n wledig neu’n drefol, yn y gogledd, y de, y dwyrain neu’r gorllewin. Dyna’n hegwyddor a’n hathroniaeth sylfaenol. Fel y dywedasoch yn gywir, rhaid inni roi sylw i achosion sylfaenol amddifadedd cymdeithasol. O ran fformwla ar gyfer dyrannu adnoddau, mae’r rhaglen Amcan 1 yn gyfle mawr i ni yng Nghymru dros y saith mlynedd nesaf i helpu i ymosod ar achosion gwaelodol a sylfaenol amddifadedd cymdeithasol a thlodi yng Nghymru.

I live in one of the poorest communities in Swansea and the third poorest community in Wales. I am here to represent my constituents’ interests and to make a difference to the people whose lives are blighted by long-term poverty and social disadvantage. We share that aim.

Yr wyf yn byw yn un o’r cymunedau tlotaf yn Abertawe a’r gymuned drydedd dlotaf yng Nghymru. Yr wyf yma i gynrychioli buddiannau fy etholwyr ac i wneud gwahaniaeth i’r bobl yr andwyir eu bywydau gan dlodi tymor hir ac anfantais gymdeithasol. Rhannwn y nod honno.

Helen Mary Jones spoken in English p. 18

Helen Mary Jones siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 18

What is being done to ensure that the Westminster Government’s policy of getting people off benefits and into work does not just shift those people into low paid work and continue the cycle of poverty, which appears to be happening? I ask the Government of Wales to consider two matters. First, to reconsider the issue of a national benefits uptake project for Wales to ensure that the poorest people in our communities who cannot work get the benefits to which they are entitled. Secondly, will you consider discussing with your colleagues in Westminster the impact that the Access to Justice Act 1999 is having on advice services in Wales, particularly some of the smaller advice services specialising in offering advice on benefits to the disabled and to people from black and ethnic minority communities?

Beth sydd yn cael ei wneud i sicrhau nad yw polisi Llywodraeth San Steffan o fynd â phobl oddi ar fudd-daliadau ac i waith ddim ond yn symud y bobl hynny i waith a thâl isel ac yn parhau’r cylch tlodi, sef yr hyn sydd yn digwydd yn ôl pob golwg? Gofynnaf i Lywodraeth Cymru ystyried dau fater. Yn gyntaf, ailystyried mater prosiect derbyn budd-daliadau cenedlaethol i Gymru i sicrhau bod y bobl dlotaf yn ein cymunedau na allant weithio yn cael y budd-daliadau y mae ganddynt hawl iddynt. Yn ail, a wnewch ystyried trafod gyda’ch cydweithwyr yn San Steffan yr effaith mae Deddf Mynediad i Gyfiawnder 1999 yn ei chael ar wasanaethau cynghori yng Nghymru, yn enwedig rhai o’r gwasanaethau cynghori llai sydd yn arbenigo ar gynnig cyngor ar fudd-daliadau i’r anabl ac i bobl o gymunedau lleiafrifoedd du ac ethnig?

Andrew Davies spoken in English p. 18

Andrew Davies siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 18

We have a commitment, not only in this administration but across all parties in the Assembly, to tackle the underlying problems of poverty and social disadvantage. We are working with the Westminster Government through schemes such as the minimum wage, the working families’ tax credit and the New Deal that has been spectacularly successful in addressing the issues, particularly of youth unemployment. I agree that it is of no benefit to substitute low income on unemployment to low income in employment. We are all agreed that we want to create in Wales a prosperous economy based on high skill, high value-added jobs. On the specific questions about a national benefits uptake and negotiations and discussions with colleagues in Westminster on the Access to Justice Act 1999, I take those issues on board and I will address them with Rhodri Morgan and colleagues and get back to you.

Mae gennym ymrwymiad, nid yn unig yn y weinyddiaeth hon ond ar draws yr holl bleidiau yn y Cynulliad, i fynd i’r afael â phroblemau sylfaenol tlodi ac anfantais gymdeithasol. Yr ydym yn gweithio gyda Llywodraeth San Steffan drwy gynlluniau fel yr isafswm cyflog, y credyd treth i deuluoedd mewn gwaith a’r Fargen Newydd a fu’n hynod o lwyddiannus wrth fynd i’r afael â’r materion, yn enwedig diweithdra ieuenctid. Cytunaf nad yw o unrhyw fudd i gyfnewid incwm isel heb waith am incwm isel mewn gwaith. Yr ydym oll yn gytûn ein bod yn dymuno creu economi ffyniannus yng Nghymru sydd yn seiliedig ar swyddi â medrau uchel a gwerth ychwanegol uchel. Ar y cwestiynau penodol am brosiect derbyn budd-daliadau cenedlaethol a negodiadau a thrafodaethau â chydweithwyr yn San Steffan ar Ddeddf Mynediad i Gyfiawnder 1999, ystyriaf y materion hynny a rhoddaf sylw iddynt gyda Rhodri Morgan a’m cyd-Aelodau a deuaf yn ôl atoch.

Peter Black spoken in English p. 19

Peter Black siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 19

Do you accept that poor health and poor housing are major factors in social exclusion? How does the Government of Wales plan to tackle the appalling record of the national health service in Wales on waiting times, which are increasing, and also the underinvestment in housing in Wales?

A dderbyniwch fod iechyd gwael a thai gwael yn ffactorau o bwys mewn allgáu cymdeithasol? Sut y mae Llywodraeth Cymru’n bwriadu ymdrin â record warthus y gwasanaeth iechyd gwladol yng Nghymru ar amseroedd aros, sydd yn cynyddu, a hefyd y tanfuddsoddi mewn tai yng Nghymru?

Andrew Davies spoken in English p. 19

Andrew Davies siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 19

I agree about the effect of poor health. For example, a working class man in my constituency will live on average five years less than a professional man who lives in a prosperous, middle-class area. That is unacceptable in a civilised society. We must address the underlying issues, not only of poverty but also related issues of health inequality.

Cytunaf am effaith iechyd gwael. Er enghraifft, bydd dyn o’r dosbarth gweithiol yn fy etholaeth yn byw bum mlynedd yn llai ar gyfartaledd na dyn proffesiynol sydd yn byw mewn ardal lewyrchus, ddosbarth canol. Mae hynny’n annerbyniol mewn cymdeithas wâr. Rhaid inni ymdrin â’r materion sylfaenol, nid y rhai sydd yn ymwneud â thlodi’n unig ond hefyd materion cysylltiedig anghydraddoldeb iechyd.

This administration and the Westminster Government are addressing the issues of chronic underfunding of the health service, a legacy bequeathed to us by 18 years of Conservative rundown of the health service. We are putting substantial extra resources into tackling the chronic underfunding of the health service in Wales. In my constituency in Swansea, and the area that Peter represents, this administration has written off the debt of the Swansea NHS Trust. We are also looking at major funding throughout Wales. These issues must be addressed. My colleague, Jane Hutt, and others from the devolved administrations were in London yesterday with Alan Milburn looking at these issues. A great deal of useful work was undertaken in looking at how these chronic issues, which were bequeathed to us by the previous administration, can be addressed and turned around. These are long-term, fundamental structural problems that must be addressed. They can not be addressed through short-term fixes.

Mae’r weinyddiaeth hon a Llywodraeth San Steffan yn rhoi sylw i faterion tanariannu hirfaith yn y gwasanaeth iechyd, rhodd a adawyd i ni gan 18 mlynedd o wanhau’r gwasanaeth iechyd gan y Ceidwadwyr. Yr ydym yn rhoi adnoddau ychwanegol sylweddol i ymdrin â thanariannu hirfaith y gwasanaeth iechyd yng Nghymru. Yn fy etholaeth i yn Abertawe, a’r ardal a gynrychiola Peter, mae’r weinyddiaeth hon wedi dileu dyled Ymddiriedolaeth NHS Abertawe. Yr ydym hefyd yn ystyried ariannu helaeth ledled Cymru. Rhaid ymdrin â’r materion hyn. Yr oedd fy nghyd-Aelod, Jane Hutt, ac eraill o’r gweinyddiaethau datganoledig yn Llundain ddoe gydag Alan Milburn yn edrych ar y materion hyn. Ymgymerwyd â llawer iawn o waith buddiol wrth edrych ar y modd y gellir ymdrin â’r materion hirfaith hyn, a adawyd i ni gan y weinyddiaeth flaenorol, a’u gwrthdroi. Mae’r rhain yn broblemau strwythurol sylfaenol, tymor hir y mae’n rhaid ymdrin â hwy. Ni ellir ymdrin â hwy drwy atebion tymor byr.

Richard Edwards spoken in English p. 19

Richard Edwards siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 19

I echo the earlier point about a national benefits take-up campaign. The Assembly could take a leading role in this and I endorse Helen Mary Jones’s point. I ask the Executive to consider this matter seriously as a major way of addressing poverty in Wales.

Adleisiaf y pwynt cynharach am ymgyrch derbyn budd-daliadau genedlaethol. Gallai’r Cynulliad gymryd rôl arweiniol ar hyn ac ategaf bwynt Helen Mary Jones. Gofynnaf i’r Weithrediaeth ystyried y mater hwn o ddifrif fel dull pwysig o ymdrin â thlodi yng Nghymru.

Andrew Davies spoken in English p. 20

Andrew Davies siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 20

I agree, Richard. The unit that has been established to increase uptake of benefits in my local authority area has been very successful. The amount of extra money received by people on low incomes has made a significant contribution to their lives, as well as having an impact on the local economy. It is something that we could consider seriously, by working with our Westminster and local authority colleagues to see how this issue can be taken forward.

Cytunaf, Richard. Bu’r uned a sefydlwyd i gynyddu derbyniad budd-daliadau yn fy ardal awdurdod lleol i yn llwyddiannus iawn. Mae’r swm o arian ychwanegol a dderbyniwyd gan bobl ar incwm isel wedi cyfrannu’n sylweddol at eu bywydau, yn ogystal â chael effaith ar yr economi leol. Mae’n rhywbeth y gallem ei ystyried o ddifrif, drwy weithio gyda’n cydweithwyr yn San Steffan ac mewn awdurdodau lleol i weld sut y gellir bwrw ymlaen â’r mater hwn.

Cwestiwn Brys

Urgent Question

Tir Mynydd

Glyn Davies spoken in English p. 20

Glyn Davies siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 20

Will the Secretary for Agriculture and Rural Development make a statement about the future of Tir Mynydd? (EAQ5796)

A wnaiff yr Ysgrifennydd Amaethyddiaeth a Datblygu Gwledig ddatganiad am ddyfodol Tir Mynydd? (EAQ5796)

Christine Gwyther The Secretary for Agriculture and Rural Development spoken in English p. 20

Christine Gwyther Yr Ysgrifennydd Amaethyddiaeth a Datblygu Gwledig siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 20

Under the European Council’s rural development regulation, member states are required to move to an area-based support system for their less favoured areas. However, funding for the new scheme will be based on the historic share that Wales receives. There is no risk of resources leaking out of Wales. Quite the contrary. I was delighted to be able to secure additional funding for the less favourable areas as announced at the Prime Minister’s agriculture summit on 30 March. The sum of £50 million will be added to the new scheme throughout the UK and will be paid out in the spring of 2001. Of this additional sum, an extra £12.2 million will be paid to Welsh farmers.

O dan reoliad datblygu gwledig Cyngor Ewrop, mae’n ofynnol i aelod wladwriaethau symud at system gymorth sydd yn seiliedig ar arwynebedd ar gyfer eu hardaloedd llai ffafriol. Fodd bynnag, bydd y cyllid ar gyfer y cynllun newydd yn seiliedig ar y gyfran hanesyddol y mae Cymru’n ei derbyn. Nid oes unrhyw berygl i adnoddau ddiferu o Gymru. I’r gwrthwyneb yn wir. Yr oeddwn yn falch iawn o allu sicrhau arian ychwanegol i’r ardaloedd llai ffafriol fel y cyhoeddwyd yn uwchgyfarfod amaethyddiaeth y Prif Weinidog ar 30 Mawrth. Ychwanegir y swm o £50 miliwn at y cynllun newydd ledled y DU ac fe’i telir yng ngwanwyn 2001. O’r swm ychwanegol hwn, telir £12.2 miliwn yn ychwanegol i ffermwyr yng Nghymru.

We have always recognised that the move to an area-based system would be difficult for some, as it will result in winners and losers. That is why our original proposals retained a link with payments calculated on headage. The clear message from the European Commission, however, is that this kind of scheme is not acceptable to it, either here or in other member states. The high stocking levels of many farmers in the less favoured areas means that a switch from payments per head to payments per hectare will hit them hard. On the other hand, those with lightly stocked holdings will be gainers. We have made no secret of our concerns about the significant redistributive effects of area payments. We consulted widely last year on the less favoured area reforms and our concerns were made clear at all times. We underlined the problem in discussing the reforms with the Agriculture and Rural Development Committee, the farming unions and other interested parties.

Yr ydym yn cydnabod erioed y byddai symud at system yn seiliedig ar arwynebedd yn anodd i rai, gan y bydd yn creu enillwyr a chollwyr. Dyna pam yr oedd ein cynigion gwreiddiol yn cadw cysylltiad â thaliadau a gyfrifir fesul pen. Y neges glir o’r Comisiwn Ewropeaidd, fodd bynnag, yw nad yw cynllun o’r math hwn yn dderbyniol ganddo, naill ai yma neu mewn aelod wladwriaethau eraill. Mae lefelau stocio uchel llawer o ffermwyr yn yr ardaloedd llai ffafriol yn golygu y bydd newid o daliadau fesul pen i daliadau fesul hectar yn eu bwrw’n galed. Ar y llaw arall, bydd y rhai â ffermydd â stoc isel ar eu hennill. Nid ydym wedi celu ein pryderon ynghylch yr effeithiau ailddosbarthu sylweddol taliadau ar sail arwynebedd. Ymgyngorasom yn helaeth y llynedd ar ddiwygiadau’r ardaloedd llai ffafriol a mynegwyd ein pryderon yn glir bob amser. Tanlinellasom y broblem wrth drafod y diwygiadau â’r Pwyllgor Amaethyddiaeth a Datblygu Gwledig, yr undebau ffermio ac eraill sydd â buddiant.

The proposed new scheme, known as Tir Mynydd, which was submitted to the Commission in December, reflected the consultations that we held throughout the previous year. It comprises of three elements: the first element is an area-based payment derived from stocking levels; the second element is an area payment per hectare of forage land and the third element is an environmental top-up payment for those who farm in certain clearly defined and sustainable ways. This approach was discussed with the other UK agriculture departments and, in common with them, we felt it could be justified within the terms of the rural development regulation, although we explained to the Agriculture and Rural Development Committee that the first element, which is the area-based payment derived from stocking levels, was at the margins of what was likely to be acceptable to the Commission. The Commission’s response was that the first element was unacceptable, while the other two were acceptable. Its reaction to our proposals is not unique to our less favoured area scheme—Scotland, England and Northern Ireland have all experienced the same reaction to the similar proposals that they have submitted. The Commission’s view is consistent throughout the European Union. Sweden’s rural development plan, which was due to be considered formally by the EU agricultural structures and rural development (STAR) committee this week, prior to formal approval, has been blocked because its less favoured areas scheme contains a headage element.

Yr oedd y cynllun newydd arfaethedig, o’r enw Tir Mynydd, a gyflwynwyd i’r Comisiwn yn Rhagfyr, yn adlewyrchu’r ymgyngoriadau a gynaliasom gydol y flwyddyn flaenorol. Mae’n cynnwys tair elfen: yr elfen gynaf yw taliad ar sail arwynebedd sydd yn deillio o lefelau stocio; yr ail elfen yw taliad arwynebedd fesul hectar o dir porthiant a’r drydedd elfen yw taliad amgylcheddol ychwanegol i’r rhai sydd yn ffermio drwy ddulliau cynaliadwy penodol a ddiffinnir yn eglur. Trafodwyd y dull gweithredu hwn ag adrannau amaethyddiaeth eraill y DU ac, fel hwythau, teimlem y gellid ei gyfiawnhau oddi mewn i delerau’r rheoliad datblygu gwledig, er inni egluro i’r Pwyllgor Amaethyddiaeth a Datblygu Gwledig fod yr elfen gyntaf, sef y taliad ar sail arwynebedd sydd yn deillio o lefelau stocio, ar ymylon yr hyn a fyddai’n debygol o fod yn dderbyniol gan y Comisiwn. Ymateb y Comisiwn oedd bod yr elfen gyntaf yn annerbyniol, tra bo’r ddwy arall yn dderbyniol. Nid yw ei ymateb i’n cynigion yn unigryw i’n cynllun ardaloedd llai ffafriol ni—mae’r Alban, Lloegr a Gogledd Iwerddon oll wedi profi’r un ymateb i’r cynigion tebyg a gyflwynasant. Mae barn y Comisiwn yn gyson ledled yr Undeb Ewropeaidd. Mae cynllun datblygu gwledig Sweden, a oedd i fod i’w ystyried yn ffurfiol gan bwyllgor strwythurau amaethyddol a datblygu gwledig yr UE yr wythnos yma, cyn ei gymeradwyo’n ffurfiol, wedi cael ei rwystro oherwydd bod ei gynllun ardaloedd llai ffafriol yn cynnwys elfen fesul pen.

We are dealing with this issue in a very open way. After reporting the situation to the Agriculture and Rural Development Committee on 17 May, discussions have been held with the farming unions, the Hill Farming Advisory Sub-Committee and the agriculture spokespeople from all parties. We shared with them detailed modelling and showed how different options would affect the distribution of money between farmers and the numbers of winners and losers.

Yr ydym yn ymdrin â’r mater hwn mewn modd agored iawn. Ar ôl adrodd am y sefyllfa i’r Pwyllgor Amaethyddiaeth a Datblygu Gwledig ar 17 Mai, cynhaliwyd trafodaethau â’r undebau ffermio, yr Is-bwyllgor Ymgynghorol ar Ffermio Mynydd a llefaryddion amaethyddiaeth yr holl bleidiau. Rhanasom â hwy fodelu manwl a dangos sut y byddai gwahanol ddewisiadau’n effeithio ar ddosbarthiad yr arian ymysg ffermwyr a niferoedd yr enillwyr a’r collwyr.

In framing an area-based scheme we have examined all the possibilities and tried in particular to cushion the effect on those who are hit hardest by the change. I need to make it crystal clear today that there is no possible scheme that can avoid significant change because of the wide variation in farming practices and, in particular, stocking densities across Wales. Arguing for the status quo is pointless. Farming unions must realise this and not raise needless fears among farmers based on some of the approaches that we have modelled and shared with them openly and that have then been discarded because they are not workable. There is a lot of misinformation.

Wrth lunio cynllun ar sail arwynebedd yr ydym wedi edrych ar yr holl bosibiliadau ac yn arbennig wedi ceisio lleddfu’r effaith ar y rhai a gaiff eu bwrw galetaf gan y newid. Rhaid imi roi ar ddeall yn gwbl glir heddiw nad oes cynllun dichonol a all osgoi newid sylweddol oherwydd yr amrywiad eang mewn arferion ffermio ac, yn enwedig, trwch stocio ar draws Cymru. Nid oes diben dadlau dros y sefyllfa bresennol. Rhaid i undebau ffermio sylweddoli hyn a pheidio â chodi ofnau diangen ymysg ffermwyr ar sail rhai o’r dulliau gweithredu yr ydym wedi eu modelu a’u rhannu’n agored â hwy ac sydd wedi eu gwrthod wedyn am nad ydynt yn ymarferol. Mae llawer o gamwybodaeth.

Our approach has been discussed with the agriculture spokespeople of all parties in the Assembly and I am meeting them tonight to discuss this further. We propose an area-based scheme in which excessive gains are reduced by tapering payments to the most extensive farms and in which immediate gains and losses are tempered by the operation of a safety net, which will allow the new scheme to be phased in over four years. It is not ideal but it will, at least, allow some time for farmers to adapt to the new scheme. We have negotiated intensively with the Commission and we are making good progress in persuading it, despite its initial reservations, that such a scheme is acceptable under the regulations. As in many other areas, Wales is in the lead on this, not only in the UK but across the European Union.

Trafodwyd ein dull o weithredu gyda llefaryddion amaethyddiaeth yr holl bleidiau yn Cynulliad hwn a byddaf yn cyfarfod â hwy heno i drafod hyn ymhellach. Cynigiwn gynllun ar sail arwynebedd lle y lleiheir enillion gormodol drwy dapro taliadau i’r ffermydd helaethaf a lle y cymedrolir enillion a cholledion uniongyrchol drwy weithredu rhwyd diogelwch, a fydd yn caniatáu cyflwyno’r cynllun newydd yn raddol dros bedair blynedd. Nid yw’n ddelfrydol ond bydd, o leiaf, yn rhoi rhywfaint o amser i ffermwyr ymaddasu i’r cynllun newydd. Yr ydym wedi negodi’n drylwyr â’r Comisiwn ac yr ydym yn gwneud cynnydd da wrth ei berswadio, er gwaethaf ei amheuon ar y dechrau, fod cynllun o’r fath yn dderbyniol o dan y rheoliadau. Fel mewn llawer maes arall mae Cymru ar y blaen ar hyn, nid yn unig yn y DU ond ledled yr Undeb Ewropeaidd.

This is the best deal that we can obtain and, despite its disadvantages, we must accept it. Not accepting it would risk a prolonged and ultimately fruitless debate with the Commission on proposals that we know are unacceptable to them. It would risk delaying the approval of the rural development plan for Wales on which our long-term plans for Welsh agriculture depend and, perhaps more significantly for us at present, we would risk the delay of less favoured area payments, which are due early next year.

Hon yw’r fargen orau y gallwn ei chael ac, er gwaethaf ei hanfanteision, rhaid inni ei derbyn. Byddai peidio â’i derbyn yn creu’r perygl o ddadl hirfaith ac ofer yn y pen draw â’r Comisiwn ar gynigion y gwyddom eu bod yn annerbyniol iddynt. Byddai’n creu perygl o ohirio cymeradwyo’r cynllun datblygu gwledig i Gymru y mae ein cynlluniau tymor hir ar gyfer amaethyddiaeth Cymru yn dibynnu arno ac, yn bwysicach efallai i ni ar hyn o bryd, byddem yn creu perygl o ohirio taliadau ardaloedd llai ffafriol, sydd i’w talu’n gynnar y flwyddyn nesaf.

Glyn Davies spoken in English p. 23

Glyn Davies siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 23

Like almost every farmer in Wales, I declare a general interest when speaking about hill farm support schemes. The farmers in Wales are angry—perhaps hopping mad would be a better description—with some justification, in my view. The hill support scheme, recently renamed Tir Mynydd, has been a financial lifeline for Welsh farmers for 50 years. Since the Berlin Summit demanded change there has been concern within the industry.

Fel bron bob ffermwr yng Nghymru, datganaf fuddiant cyffredinol wrth siarad am gynlluniau cymorth i ffermydd mynydd. Mae’r ffermwyr yng Nghymru’n ddig—efallai y byddai cynddeiriog yn well disgrifiad—gyda rhywfaint o gyfiawnhad, yn fy marn i. Bu’r cynllun cymorth i dir uchel, a ailenwyd yn ddiweddar yn Tir Mynydd, yn rhaff achub ariannol i ffermwyr yng Nghymru ers 50 mlynedd. Ers i Uwchgynhadledd Berlin fynnu newid bu pryder oddi mewn i’r diwydiant.

During 1999, you told us that the National Assembly, through its Agriculture and Rural Development Committee, carried out a huge consultation exercise throughout Wales. Every rural organisation participated and a huge amount of work was done by all of them and by the Assembly and its Members. Our rural development plan was prepared on the basis of this work , which was presented on time last December. Farmers in Wales have filled in their forms applying for support on the basis of what is contained in this plan. Unelected Brussels bureaucrats waited five months and then threw our scheme out. What will the Welsh Government do about this? The issue is more important to Wales than to any other part of Britain because of how much hill area there is. Will it condemn the lack of leadership shown by the UK Agriculture Minister, Nick Brown? Will it condemn the appalling action by an arrogant, bullying Brussels bureaucracy, which has flown in the face of every democratic principle that we know in effectively dismissing the Assembly’s view? Along with the European Union, you are in the dock on this issue. We want you to show that the Government is prepared to go back to Brussels and show that it has some backbone and fight for Welsh agriculture.

Yn ystod 1999, dywedasoch wrthym fod y Cynulliad Cenedlaethol, drwy ei Bwyllgor Amaethyddiaeth a Datblygu Gwledig, wedi cyflawni ymarfer ymgynghori anferth ledled Cymru. Cymerodd bob mudiad gwledig ran a chyflawnwyd gwaith enfawr gan bob un ohonynt a chan y Cynulliad a’i Aelodau. Paratowyd ein cynllun datblygu gwledig ar sail y gwaith hwn, a gyflwynwyd mewn pryd fis Rhagfyr diwethaf. Mae ffermwyr yng Nghymru wedi cwblhau eu ffurflenni i ymgeisio am gymorth ar sail yr hyn a geir o fewn y cynllun hwn. Arhosodd biwrocratiaid anetholedig ym Mrwsel bum mis ac yna taflasant ein cynllun allan. Beth a wnaiff Llywodraeth Cymru am hynny? Mae’r mater yn bwysicach i Gymru nag i unrhyw ran arall o Brydain oherwydd bod cymaint o arwynebedd o dir mynydd. A wnaiff gollfarnu’r diffyg arweinyddiaeth a amlygwyd gan Weinidog Amaethyddiaeth y DU, Nick Brown? A wnaiff gollfarnu’r weithred warthus gan fiwrocratiaeth drahaus, ormesol ym Mrwsel, a aeth yn erbyn pob egwyddor ddemocrataidd y gwyddom amdani wrth anwybyddu barn y Cynulliad i bob pwrpas? Yr ydych chi, ynghyd â’r Undeb Ewropaidd, yn y doc ar y mater hwn. Dymunwn ichi ddangos bod y Llywodraeth yn barod i ddychwelyd i Frwsel a dangos bod ganddi rywfaint o asgwrn cefn ac ymladd dros amaethyddiaeth yng Nghymru.

Christine Gwyther spoken in English p. 24

Christine Gwyther siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 24

I assume that there was a question in there somewhere. I also assume that the only question that you want me to answer is at what stage, if any, politicians should go to Brussels. Officials in my department have been working hard, for longer than the last couple of weeks, to put together proposals that we think the Commission will accept. Those proposals include a safety net and, if there is to be any thumping on tables as happened following Glyn’s contribution, it should be if and when that safety net proposal is not considered appropriate by Brussels and the Commission. I hope that that will not happen because of the careful work that has gone on behind the scenes on this matter. If it happened, I would visit Brussels and I would expect every member of the Agriculture and Rural Development Committee to be with me. It is my fervent hope that the Commission will accept our revised proposal with the tapering and the safety net so that we can protect smaller farmers in the long term and also protect losers in the short term.

Cymeraf fod cwestiwn yno yn rhywle. Cymeraf hefyd mai’r unig gwestiwn y dymunwch imi ei ateb yw pa bryd, os o gwbl, y dylai gwleidyddion fynd i Frwsel. Bu swyddogion yn fy adran yn gweithio’n galed, am fwy na’r ychydig wythnosau diwethaf, i lunio cynigion y credwn y bydd y Comisiwn yn eu derbyn. Mae’r cynigion hynny’n cynnwys rhwyd diogelwch ac, os oes unrhyw ddyrnu ar fyrddau i fod fel y bu wedi cyfraniad Glyn, dylai ddigwydd os a phan nad ystyrir y cynnig hwnnw am rwyd diogelwch yn briodol gan Frwsel a’r Comisiwn. Gobeithiaf na fydd hynny’n digwydd oherwydd y gwaith gofalus a aeth ymlaen yn y cefndir ar y mater hwn. Pe digwyddai, byddwn yn ymweld â Brwsel a byddwn yn disgwyl i bob aelod o’r Pwyllgor Amaethyddiaeth a Datblygu Gwledig ddod gyda mi. Fy ngobaith taer yw y bydd y Comisiwn yn derbyn ein cynnig diwygiedig gyda’r tapro a’r rhwyd diogelwch fel y gallwn ddiogelu ffermwyr llai yn y tymor hir a hefyd ddiogelu collwyr yn y tymor byr.

Rhodri Glyn Thomas siaradwyd yn Gymraeg t. 24

Rhodri Glyn Thomas spoken in Welsh p. 24

Diolchaf i Christine am ymateb i’r cwestiwn brys hwn. Mae’r mater hwn yn poeni nifer helaeth o ffermwyr yng Nghymru, fel y dywedodd Glyn eisoes. Mae’r taliadau hyn yn berthnasol i 80 y cant o dirwedd Cymru ac maent yn ymwneud â nifer helaeth o ffermydd a ffermwyr a’u bywoliaeth. Mae gofid gwirioneddol fod y fywoliaeth honno dan fygythiad oherwydd y newidiadau hyn. Yr wyf yn falch o glywed am y rhwyd diogelwch a’r trafodaethau ynglŷn ag ef. Derbyniaf y bydd unrhyw newid yn golygu y bydd rhai pobl yn ennill ac eraill yn colli.

I thank Christine for responding to this urgent question. This issue worries a substantial number of farmers in Wales, as Glyn has already said. These payments are relevant to 80 per cent of Wales’s topography and they touch upon a substantial number of farms and farmers and their livelihoods. There is a real fear that that livelihood is under threat because of these changes. I am pleased to hear about the safety net and the discussions about it. I accept that any change will mean that some people gain and that others lose.

A gawn sicrwydd ein bod yn trafod yr un swm o arian ag o’r blaen ac mai mater o ddosbarthu’r swm hwnnw yn wahanol sydd dan sylw ar hyn o bryd? A gawn sicrwydd hefyd fod yr adran, a Christine fel yr Ysgrifennydd Amaethyddiaeth a Datblygu Gwledig, wedi sicrhau na fydd y rhai a fydd yn colli yn colli’n ormodol yn y tymor byr a bod cyfle iddynt addasu i’r newidiadau hyn? A gawn sicrwydd pellach fod buddiannau Cymru yn cael sylw digonol yn y mater hwn?

May we receive an assurance that we are discussing the same amount of money as previously and that it is a matter of distributing that sum differently that is in question at the moment? May we also receive an assurance that the department, and Christine as Secretary for Agriculture and Rural Development, has ensured that those who will lose out will not do so excessively in the short term and that there will be an opportunity for them to adapt to these changes? May we receive further assurance that Wales’s interests are paid adequate attention in this issue?

Mae’r mater hwn o’r pwys mwyaf i Gymru. Nid yw mor bwysig i Loegr, gan ein bod yn sôn am 18 y cant o dirwedd Lloegr ac 80 y cant o dirwedd Cymru. A gawn sicrwydd fod buddiannau Cymru yn cael eu hamddiffyn yn ddigonol yma, yn enwedig o feddwl ymlaen llaw am y trafodaethau ynglŷn â’r drefn ddefaid yn y dyfodol? A gawn sicrwydd fod y Cynulliad, a Christine fel yr Ysgrifennydd Amaethyddiaeth a Datblygu Gwledig, yn sicrhau bod llais Cymru a llais y diwydiant yng Nghymru yn cael ei glywed yn glir? O wneud hynny, sicrhaf Christine y caiff gefnogaeth lwyr y Pwyllgor Amaethyddiaeth a Datblygu Gwledig.

This issue is of the greatest importance to Wales. It is not as important to England, as we are talking about 18 per cent of England’s topography and 80 per cent of Wales’s topography. May we receive an assurance that Wales’s interests are adequately defended here, especially when thinking forward to the future discussions on the sheep regime? May we receive an assurance that the Assembly, and Christine as the Secretary for Agriculture and Rural Development, ensures that Wales’s voice and that of the industry in Wales will be clearly heard? If that is done, I assure Christine that she will receive the full support of the Agriculture and Rural Development Committee.

Christine Gwyther spoken in English p. 25

Christine Gwyther siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 25

Rhodri is talking about the rural development regulation in which the Assembly is the negotiating body for Wales. Therefore, we do not go through the UK Ministers for Tir Mynydd and other aspects of the rural development plan. We do the negotiating ourselves. The rest of the UK is waiting for us to succeed in getting this safety net imposed. It is not only important for Wales. It is also important for Scotland, as it is made up of nearly 85 per cent less favoured areas. Scotland is watching our progress with interest and trepidation, because if it does not work for us it will not work for it either. The most important thing that we can do over the next week or so is to work through our new proposals and ensure that the Commission takes them on board. I am hopeful that the work that our officials has done will be enough to persuade the Commission that it can accept the proposals.

Mae Rhodri yn sôn am y rheoleiddio datblygu gwledig lle y mae’r Cynulliad yn gorff negodi dros Gymru. Felly, nid ydym yn mynd drwy Weinidogion y DU ar gyfer Tir Mynydd ac agweddau eraill ar y cynllun datblygu gwledig. Ni ein hunain sydd yn negodi. Mae gweddill y DU yn disgwyl inni lwyddo i gael gosod y rhwyd diogelwch hon. Nid yw’n bwysig i Gymru’n unig. Mae hefyd yn bwysig i’r Alban, gan fod tua 85 y cant ohoni’n ardaloedd llai ffafriol. Mae’r Alban yn gwylio ein cynnydd gyda diddordeb ac anesmwythyd, oherwydd os nad yw’n gweithio i ni, ni fydd yn gweithio iddo ef ychwaith. Y peth pwysicaf y gallwn ei wneud dros yr wythnos nesaf fwy neu lai yw gweithio drwy ein cynigion newydd a sicrhau bod y Comisiwn yn eu derbyn. Yr wyf yn obeithiol y bydd y gwaith a wnaeth ein swyddogion yn ddigon i ddarbwyllo’r Comisiwn y gall dderbyn y cynigion.

Mick Bates spoken in English p. 26

Mick Bates siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 26

In discussing the Tir Mynydd scheme, Christine, you have totally misjudged the industry’s mood. It currently finds your lack of a political voice in Brussels extremely disappointing. The stated aim of the European Union is that these payments are to keep our hill farms viable. I have seen no evidence to suggest that the revised scheme will keep our Welsh hill farms viable. Every hill farmer—12,000 farms receive this payment—wants to see you in Brussels fighting our corner. I asked you this question more than two weeks ago, and I hoped that you might have gone there and taken others with you, rather than leave it to officials. However, you have failed to do that so far. I hope that you will go there to fight on behalf of our industry.

Wrth drafod y cynllun Tir Mynydd, Christine, yr ydych wedi llwyr gamfarnu teimlad y diwydiant. Ar hyn o bryd mae’n cael eich diffyg llais gwleidyddol ym Mrwsel yn siomedig tu hwnt. Y nod a ddatganwyd gan yr Undeb Ewropeaidd yw mai diben y taliadau hyn yw cadw ein ffermydd mynydd yn hyfyw. Ni welais unrhyw dystiolaeth i awgrymu y bydd y cynllun diwygiedig yn cadw ein ffermydd mynydd yng Nghymru’n hyfyw. Mae pob ffermwr mynydd—mae 12,000 o ffermydd yn derbyn y taliad hwn—yn dymuno eich gweld ym Mrwsel yn ymladd ar ein rhan. Gofynnais y cwestiwn hwn i chi dros bythefnos yn ôl, a gobeithiais y byddech efallai wedi mynd yno a mynd ag eraill gyda chi, yn hytrach na gadael hyn i’r swyddogion. Fodd bynnag, yr ydych wedi methu gwneud hynny hyd yn hyn. Gobeithiaf y byddwch yn mynd yno i ymladd ar ran ein diwydiant.

It is interesting that the Tories have found a new sympathy for this. After all, they cut the payments by 25 per cent. I am concerned that these proposals will put the future viability of over 3,000 businesses at stake. Why did we go through so much consultation when the regulation—article 15—was well known to you and your officials? That consultation, which arrived at a satisfactory conclusion, and which was acceptable to all parts of the industry, has now been thrown out of the window by the European Commission, whom you have not met, by officials who obviously did not have the information, who then wrongly advised you. Is this really the case? Did you, or the officials, have the information after all that consultation, which gave rise to this scheme that has now been rejected? On what grounds will you act to ensure that none of our hill farmers lose any of this vital payment?

Mae’n ddiddorol bod y Torïaid wedi dod o hyd i gydymdeimlad newydd â hyn. Wedi’r cyfan, torasant y taliadau o 25 y cant. Yr wyf yn bryderus y bydd y cynigion hyn yn peryglu hyfywedd 3,000 o fusnesau yn y dyfodol. Pam yr aethom drwy gymaint o ymgynghori pan oedd y rheoliad—erthygl 15—yn gyfarwydd iawn i chi a’ch swyddogion? Mae’r ymgynghoriad hwnnw, a ddaeth i gasgliad boddhaol, ac a oedd yn dderbyniol i bob rhan o’r diwydiant, bellach wedi ei luchio drwy’r ffenestr gan y Comisiwn Ewropeaidd, na chyfarfuasoch ag ef, gan swyddogion y mae’n amlwg nad oedd yr wybodaeth ganddynt, a’ch cynghorodd yn anghywir wedyn. Ai felly y mae mewn gwirionedd? A oeddech chi, neu’r swyddogion, yn meddu ar yr wybodaeth ar ôl yr holl ymgynghori hwnnw, a arweiniodd at y cynllun hwn sydd wedi ei wrthod yn awr? Ar ba sail y byddwch yn gweithredu er mwyn sicrhau na fydd yr un o’n ffermwyr mynydd yn colli dim o’r taliad holl bwysig hwn?

Christine Gwyther spoken in English p. 26

Christine Gwyther siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 26

There were a few questions in there—I will try to tease them out, Mick. It is important to remember that our officials have not advised us incorrectly. We were continuously informed that the scheme, as we had agreed it, would be pushing at the margins of the Commission’s tolerance. As it is, we have ended up in the same position as all other member states, in that any system that is not purely area-based is unacceptable to the Commission. That is unfortunate, but it is a fact of life. We have worked hard to prepare a safety net, which we will include in our new proposal to the Commission, and it is vital that we agree that safety net. We need to put our energies into that—not just for us, but for the other parts of the UK that are coming in behind us, because we got our proposal in first, some weeks before they did. It is important that we put all our energies into that. I can only reiterate that we were not wrongly advised. In fact, in the Agriculture and Rural Development Committee—at all stages of this consultation—we were told that we were pushing at the margins of what the Commission might accept. The Hill Farming Advisory Committee was also aware of that, as were the unions.

Yr oedd ychydig o gwestiynau yn y fan honno—ceisiaf eu didoli, Mick. Mae’n bwysig cofio nad yw ein swyddogion wedi ein cynghori’n anghywir. Fe’n hysbyswyd yn barhaus y byddai’r cynllun, fel yr oeddem wedi cytuno arno, yn gwasgu ar derfynau goddefgarwch y Comisiwn. Fel y mae, yr ydym wedi diweddu yn yr un sefyllfa â’r holl aelod wladwriaethau eraill, i’r graddau bod unrhyw system nad yw’n gwbl seiliedig ar arwynebedd yn annerbyniol gan y Comisiwn. Mae hynny’n anffodus, ond mae’n un o ffeithiau bywyd. Gweithiasom yn galed i baratoi rhwyd diogelwch, y byddwn yn ei chynnwys yn ein cynnig newydd i’r Comisiwn, ac mae’n holl bwysig inni gytuno ar y rhwyd diogelwch honno. Mae angen inni roi ein hegni i hynny—nid er ein mwyn ni’n unig, ond er mwyn rhannau eraill y DU sydd yn ein dilyn, oherwydd cyflwynasom ein cynnig yn gyntaf, rai wythnosau o’u blaen hwy. Mae’n bwysig inni roi ein holl egni i hynny. Ni allaf ond ailddatgan na chawsom ein cynghori’n anghywir. Mewn gwirionedd, yn y Pwyllgor Amaethyddiaeth a Datblygu Gwledig—ar bob cam o’r ymgynghoriad hwn—dywedwyd wrthym ein bod yn gwasgu ar ymylon yr hyn y gallai’r Comisiwn ei dderbyn. Yr oedd y Pwyllgor Ymgynghorol Ffermio Mynydd yn ymwybodol o hynny hefyd, yn ogystal â’r undebau.

Peter Rogers spoken in English p. 27

Peter Rogers siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 27

This scheme was designed and agreed upon, after a long consultation, for Welsh farmers. The problem that you have now is that it is being rejected and we have three weeks to find another scheme. You are telling us today that you believe—from the unions and from the people to whom you are talking—that you are persuading them that we can form another scheme. I can assure you that you are being misinformed. You mentioned it to us three weeks ago in Committee. I went to London to speak to the National Farmers Union (in London). I met representatives from Scotland and all the farming unions in Wales and I have met other farmers as well. They are absolutely vehement that this scheme cannot be accepted. There is no way, in a timescale of three weeks, that you will be able to sell such a scheme to the Welsh farmers. You know very well that the message wherever you go is that you must go to Brussels with the other union people of England, Ireland and Scotland, to tell Brussels that we cannot accept changing a scheme in such a short timescale. We already have another instance with sites of special scientific interest, where money is not forthcoming for that scheme because Brussels has turned it down, one day from the end of the consultation period. They put forward new proposals and, in the last week, they were turned down. We cannot carry on with these decisions. I ask you to go to Brussels and represent Welsh farmers and gain some satisfaction for them.

Dyfeisiwyd y cynllun hwn a chytunwyd arno, ar ôl ymgynghori maith, ar gyfer ffermwyr yng Nghymru. Y broblem sydd gennych yn awr yw ei fod yn cael ei wrthod ac mae gennym dair wythnos i ddod o hyd i gynllun arall. Yr ydych yn dweud wrthym heddiw eich bod yn credu—o’r undebau ac o’r bobl yr ydych yn siarad â hwy—eich bod yn eu darbwyllo y gallwn lunio cynllun arall. Gallaf eich sicrhau eich bod yn cael eich camarwain. Fe’i crybwyllasoch i ni dair wythnos yn ôl yn y Pwyllgor. Euthum i Lundain i siarad ag Undeb Cenedlaethol y Ffermwyr (yn Llundain). Cyfarfûm â chynrychiolwyr o’r Alban a’r holl undebau ffermio yng Nghymru a chyfarfûm â ffermwyr eraill hefyd. Maent yn gwbl daer na ellir derbyn y cynllun hwn. Nid oes modd, oddi mewn i amserlen o dair wythnos, ichi allu gwerthu cynllun o’r fath i ffermwyr yng Nghymru. Gwyddoch o’r gorau mai’r neges pa le bynnag yr ewch yw bod rhaid ichi fynd i Frwsel gyda phobl eraill yr undebau yn Lloegr, Iwerddon a’r Alban, i ddweud wrth Frwsel na allwn dderbyn newid cynllun oddi mewn i amserlen mor fyr. Mae gennym achos arall eisoes gyda safleoedd o ddiddordeb gwyddonol arbennig, lle nad yw arian yn dod ar gyfer y cynllun hwnnw oherwydd bod Brwsel wedi ei wrthod, un diwrnod cyn diwedd y cyfnod ymgynghori. Cyflwynasant gynigion newydd ac, yn yr wythnos olaf, gwrthodwyd y rhai hynny. Ni allwn barhau â’r penderfyniadau hyn. Gofynnaf ichi fynd i Frwsel a chynrychioli ffermwyr Cymru ac ennill rhyw foddhad iddynt.

Christine Gwyther spoken in English p. 28

Christine Gwyther siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 28

You, Peter, are one of the four agriculture spokespeople who will work on our proposals. It is the European Commission whom we must persuade. That is the most important work that any one of us can do over the next few weeks. I urge you to put all your energy into doing so. We cannot afford to let our safety net fall.

Chi, Peter, yw un o’r pedwar llefarydd amaethyddiaeth a fydd yn gweithio ar ein cynigion. Y Comisiwn Ewropeaidd yw’r un y mae’n rhaid inni ei ddarbwyllo. Dyna’r gwaith pwysicaf y gall unrhyw un ohonom ei wneud dros yr wythnosau nesaf. Fe’ch anogaf i roi’ch holl egni i wneud hynny. Ni allwn fforddio gadael i’n rhwyd diogelwch ddisgyn.

Brian Gibbons spoken in English p. 28

Brian Gibbons siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 28

There is no doubt that farmers in less favoured areas and hill farmers have one of the lowest levels of income in Wales. It would be fantastic if the issues raised now were to achieve a substantial change in that situation. Unfortunately, the issues we are dealing with will not achieve that fundamental change. We are still tinkering at the edges. I hope that the way people are speaking here, in particular about Tir Mynydd, represents a significant change in our attitude towards the role of farmers in rural Wales as custodians of the countryside. This is the key way forward and, by recognising that we are moving towards the role of farmers as custodians of the countryside and developing off-farm, rural economic development, people will get a decent standard of living in rural Wales.

Nid oes dwywaith mai gan ffermwyr mewn ardaloedd llai ffafriol a ffermwyr mynydd y mae un o’r lefelau incwm isaf yng Nghymru. Byddai’n wych pe bai’r materion a godwyd yn awr yn sicrhau newid sylweddol yn y sefyllfa honno. Gwaetha’r modd, ni fydd y materion yr ydym yn ymdrin â hwy’n cyflawni’r newid sylfaenol hwnnw. Yr ydym yn dal i dincro ar yr ymylon. Hyderaf fod y modd y mae pobl yn siarad yma, yn enwedig ynghylch Tir Mynydd, yn dangos newid sylweddol yn ein hagwedd tuag at rôl ffermwyr yng nghefn gwlad Cymru fel gwarcheidwaid cefn gwlad. Dyma’r ffordd allweddol ymlaen a, drwy gydnabod ein bod yn symud tuag at rôl ffermwyr fel gwarcheidwaid cefn gwlad a datblygu datblygiad economaidd gwledig ar wahân i ar ffermydd, bydd pobl yn cael safon byw weddus yng nghefn gwlad Cymru.

Kirsty Williams spoken in English p. 28

Kirsty Williams siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 28

As Member for the largest single rural constituency in the Assembly, I remind Christine why this scheme was first developed: to help farmers who work in some of the most challenging areas of Wales, where it is most difficult to make a living. This comes at a time when small family farms can least afford to put up with these changes—safety net or not—with stock prices at rock bottom. Perhaps she can give us some bright ideas on how these farms will get rid of stock. Businesses that have planned on the basis of this scheme now find themselves having to draw up new plans. Where does she expect them to divest themselves of this stock?

Fel yr Aelod dros yr etholaeth wledig unigol fwyaf yn y Cynulliad, atgoffaf Christine pam y datblygwyd y cynllun hwn gyntaf: i helpu ffermwyr sydd yn gweithio yn rhai o’r ardaloedd anoddaf yng Nghymru, lle y mae’n fwyaf anodd gwneud bywoliaeth. Daw hyn ar adeg pan yw ffermydd teuluol bach yn lleiaf galluog i oddef y newidiadau hyn—rhwyd diogelwch neu beidio—gyda phrisiau stoc ar eu hisaf. Efallai y gall hi roi ychydig o syniadau gwych inni ynghylch y modd y bydd y ffermydd hyn yn cael gwared â stoc. Mae busnesau a gynlluniodd ar sail y cynllun hwn bellach yn gorfod gwneud cynlluniau newydd. Ym mhle y mae’n disgwyl iddynt gael gwared â’r stoc hwn?

With reference to Brian’s comments, have you any bright ideas on how we can make a living from the farms? If you live, as my family does, halfway up a mountain in the Breacon Beacons, in a national park, the opportunities for diversification are few and far between. Given the reports that some 3,000 fewer integrated administration and control system application forms have been received by the Llandrindod Wells field office this year, does it not worry you that more people are leaving the industry and that farms are becoming larger—basically ranches—and that that has a knock-on effect on Wales’s rural economy as a whole? When farmers make money, rural areas make money. If you are not successful in going back to Brussels and renegotiating this scheme, there will be more farmers out of business and less wealth and prosperity in rural communities.

A chyfeirio at sylwadau Brian, a oes gennych unrhyw syniadau gwych ynghylch y modd y gallwn wneud bywoliaeth o’r ffermydd? Os ydych yn byw, fel y mae fy nheulu i, hanner y ffordd i fyny mynydd ym Mannau Brycheiniog, mewn parc cenedlaethol, prin iawn yw’r cyfleoedd i amrywiaethu. O ystyried yr adroddiadau bod tua 3,000 yn llai o ffurflenni cais system gweinyddu a rheoli integredig wedi eu derbyn gan swyddfa faes Llandrindod eleni, onid yw’n peri gofid i chi bod mwy o bobl yn gadael y diwydiant a bod ffermydd yn mynd yn fwy—yn ranshis yn y bôn—a bod hynny’n cael effaith gynyddol ar economi wledig Cymru yn ei chyfanrwydd? Pan yw ffermwyr yn ennill arian, mae ardaloedd gwledig yn ennill arian. Os nad ydych yn llwyddiannus wrth fynd yn ôl i Frwsel ac ailnegodi’r cynllun hwn, bydd mwy o ffermwyr allan o fusnes a llai o gyfoeth a ffyniant mewn cymunedau gwledig.

Christine Gwyther spoken in English p. 29

Christine Gwyther siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 29

The first thing we must remember is that we are still talking about the same envelope of money coming to rural Wales and the less favoured areas. We are talking about the redistribution of the money within the individual farms. Some of the proposals that I will be discussing openly with the agriculture spokespeople include tapering, which will ameliorate the effects of this redistribution among those smaller farms. We are all concerned because they are family farms, which are the backbone of the countryside, and because they spend their money locally and create jobs for other people.

Y peth cyntaf y mae’n rhaid inni ei gofio yw ein bod yn dal i sôn am yr un amlennaid o arian yn dod i gefn gwlad Cymru a’r ardaloedd llai ffafriol. Yr ydym yn sôn am ailddosbarthu’r arian oddi mewn i’r ffermydd unigol. Mae rhai o’r cynigion y byddaf yn eu trafod yn agored â’r llefaryddion amaethyddiaeth yn cynnwys tapro, a fydd yn lleddfu effeithiau’r ailddosbarthu hwn ymysg y ffermydd llai hynny. Yr ydym oll yn bryderus oherwydd eu bod yn ffermydd teuluol, sydd yn asgwrn cefn i gefn gwlad, ac am eu bod yn gwario eu harian yn lleol ac yn creu swyddi i bobl eraill.

Coming back to Brian’s point: yes, economic development off-farm is important, as is economic development on-farm. We must work hard to ensure that our farmers can make money. I will use this occasion, with your permission, Llywydd, to comment on some of the media interest during the recess in a written Assembly question. I reiterate that gross domestic product is not the only wealth indicator or economic indicator that we discuss. There are many others. We must not only talk about agriculture, but also the rural economy in the round if we are to have a future

Gan ddychwelyd at bwynt Brian: ydyw, mae datblygu economaidd ar wahân i ffermydd yn bwysig, fel y mae datblygu economaidd ar ffermydd. Rhaid inni weithio’n galed i sicrhau y gall ein ffermwyr wneud arian. Defnyddiaf yr achlysur hwn, gyda’ch caniatâd, Lywydd, i wneud sylw ar rywfaint o’r diddordeb yn y cyfryngau yn ystod y toriad mewn cwestiwn ysgrifenedig y Cynulliad. Ailddatganaf nad cynnyrch mewnwladol crynswth yw’r unig ddangosydd cyfoeth neu ddangosydd economaidd a drafodwn. Mae llawer o rai eraill. Rhaid inni beidio â sôn am amaethyddiaeth yn unig, ond hefyd am yr economi wledig yn ei chyfanrwydd os ydym i gael dyfodol.

Jane Davidson spoken in English p. 30

Jane Davidson siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 30

I have no interest to declare, direct or otherwise, in this debate other than my interest on behalf of constituents. Farming is not just a rural issue. There are some 200 farms in my constituency, and there are probably farms in every constituency in Wales. There is Forest Farm in Cardiff North. Therefore, this matter affects the whole of Wales. Listening to some of today’s questions, it strikes me that we have constant difficulty when the Assembly tables proposals that we, farming unions and farmers solidly support, and after a while, those proposals are rejected by the European Commission. Is it possible for Assembly Members to have a copy of the Commission’s response to the Assembly about why this proposal has been rejected? If there is absolutely no hope of proceeding with the existing scheme, we must look for other arrangements, but we must understand the Commission’s rejection.

Nid oes gennyf fuddiant i’w ddatgan, boed yn uniongyrchol neu fel arall, yn y ddadl hon heblaw am fy niddordeb ar ran fy etholwyr. Nid mater gwledig yn unig yw ffermio. Mae tua 200 o ffermydd yn fy etholaeth, ac mae’n debyg bod ffermydd ym mhob etholaeth yng Nghymru. Ceir Fferm Fforest yng Ngogledd Caerdydd. Felly, mae’r mater hwn yn effeithio ar Gymru gyfan. Wrth wrando ar rai o’r cwestiynau heddiw, mae’n fy nharo bod gennym anhawster o hyd pan fo’r Cynulliad yn cyflwyno cynigion yr ydym ni, yr undebau ffermio a’r ffermwyr yn eu cefnogi’n gadarn, ac ar ôl ychydig, gwrthodir y cynigion hynny gan y Comisiwn Ewropeaidd. A oes modd i Aelodau’r Cynulliad gael copi o ymateb y Comisiwn i’r Cynulliad ynghylch pam y gwrthodwyd y cynnig hwn? Os nad oes gobaith o gwbl symud ymlaen â’r cynllun presennol, rhaid inni chwilio am drefniadau eraill, ond rhaid inni ddeall gwrthodiad y Comisiwn.

I ask you to look, particularly in terms of the arrangements that the Assembly is considering through the Committee, at the needs of smaller farms, such as those on the edges of valleys where there is an intensive stock production but in a smaller area because of the nature of its terrain. This will ensure that those farms, particularly those in severely disadvantaged areas, do not disproportionately lose out. My constituency may not be seen as a farming constituency, but the top of every hill in it is farmed and there are many of them. I would like to keep it that way.

Gofynnaf ichi edrych, yn enwedig o ran y trefniadau y mae’r Cynulliad yn eu hystyried drwy’r Pwyllgor, ar anghenion ffermydd llai, fel y rhai ar gyrion cymoedd lle y ceir cynhyrchu stoc dwys ond ar arwynebedd llai oherwydd natur y tirwedd. Bydd hyn yn sicrhau na fydd y ffermydd hynny, yn enwedig y rheini mewn ardaloedd dan anfantais ddifrifol, yn cael colled anghyfartal. Efallai nad ystyrir fy etholaeth yn etholaeth ffermio, ond amaethir pen pob bryn ynddi ac mae llawer ohonynt. Hoffwn ei chadw felly.

Christine Gwyther spoken in English p. 31

Christine Gwyther siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 31

The tapering proposal that I mentioned will help farmers in your consituency, Kirsty’s and others. Members are welcome to have the Commission’s response. It is written in Euro-speak and contains 100 questions, nine of which relate specifically to Tir Mynydd. The document contains some questions that have been answered by our officials in extensive meetings with Commission officials, but it can be made available to you.

Bydd y cynnig tapro a grybwyllais yn helpu ffermwyr yn eich etholaeth chi, yn un Kirsty ac mewn eraill. Mae croeso i Aelodau gael ymateb y Comisiwn. Fe’i hysgrifennwyd mewn iaith fiwrocrataidd Ewropeaidd ac mae’n cynnwys 100 o gwestiynau, naw ohonynt yn ymwneud yn benodol â Tir Mynydd. Mae’r ddogfen yn cynnwys rhai cwestiynau a atebwyd gan ein swyddogion mewn cyfarfodydd maith gyda swyddogion y Comisiwn, ond gellir ei darparu i chi.

Pwynt o Drefn

Point of Order

Karen Sinclair spoken in English p. 31

Karen Sinclair siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 31

Point of order. A couple of weeks ago, you said that clocks would be installed to assist in limiting the time for Members’ speeches. When will the clocks be installed and will you publish clear guidelines so that Members understand when and why there is a time restriction?

Pwynt o drefn. Rai wythnosau’n ôl, dywedasoch y câi clociau eu gosod i gynorthwyo wrth gyfyngu ar yr amser ar gyfer areithiau’r Aelodau. Pa bryd y gosodir y clociau ac a wnewch gyhoeddi canllawiau eglur fel bod yr Aelodau’n deall pa bryd a pham y mae cyfyngiad amser?

Dafydd Elis-Thomas The Presiding Officer spoken in English p. 31

Dafydd Elis-Thomas Y Llywydd siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 31

The reason for introducing a time restriction is clear: it is because of the length of speeches, questions and answers. This matter has arisen several times recently. I cannot say when the clocks will be installed, but it will be before the summer recess so that we can have a trial period of the new clocks before returning in September. There is a clear line on this matter, which is laid down in Standing Order No. 7.3 on the length of speeches. More importantly, it is stated in the code of conduct on Members speaking in debate that unless it is ruled otherwise, the standard time limit will be five minutes. That has not been either self-imposed or imposed by the chair regularly. The Presiding Officer may direct Members who exceed the limit to stop speaking. Point two of the code of conduct emphasises the importance of giving advance notice of the wish to speak, so that it is easier to prepare in terms of time. There has been a tendency recently for Members not to notify in advance, which makes the time limit imposition difficult.

Mae’r rheswm dros gyflwyno cyfyngiad amser yn amlwg: mae oherwydd hyd areithiau, cwestiynau ac atebion. Mae’r mater hwn wedi codi sawl gwaith yn ddiweddar. Ni allaf ddweud pa bryd y gosodir y clociau, ond bydd cyn toriad yr haf fel y gallwn gael cyfnod prawf ar y clociau newydd cyn dychwelyd ym Medi. Mae safbwynt eglur ar hyn, a nodir yn Rheol Sefydlog Rhif 7.3 ar hyd areithiau. Yn bwysicach na hynny, nodir yn y côd ymddygiad am Aelodau’n siarad mewn dadl mai’r terfyn amser arferol, oni ddyfernir fel arall, fydd pum munud. Nid yw hynny wedi ei hunanosod na’i orfodi drwy’r gadair yn rheolaidd. Caiff y Llywydd gyfarwyddo Aelodau sydd yn mynd heibio i’r cyfyngiad i orffen siarad. Mae pwynt dau o’r côd ymddygiad yn pwysleisio pwysigrwydd rhoi rhybudd ymlaen llaw am y dymuniad i siarad, fel ei bod yn haws paratoi o ran amser. Bu tuedd yn ddiweddar i Aelodau beidio â rhoi gwybod ymlaen llaw, sydd yn ei gwneud yn anodd gosod terfyn amser.

I asked the Business Committee to consider this matter and it had an initial debate this morning, which will be referred back to the party groups. I hope that we can have a maximum of self-discipline in this matter. When the stop-clocks are operating—there will be four of them—they will carry the time of day and also the time that the speaker has already taken up. I understand that they can be set up from zero or down to zero, depending on the preference. That will mean that the time taken up by every Member will be visible to all Assembly Members and to the public. I hope that, as a result of having a clear and visible time limiting system that will be controlled from this desk, Members will be clear on the parameters.

Gofynnais i’r Pwyllgor Busnes ystyried y mater hwn a chafodd ddadl ddechreuol y bore yma, a gyfeirir yn ôl at y grwpiau plaid. Gobeithiaf y gallwn gael yr hunanddisgyblaeth fwyaf posibl yn y mater hwn. Pan yw’r stopglociau’n gweithredu—bydd pedwar ohonynt—byddant yn dangos yr awr o’r dydd a hefyd yr amser a ddefnyddiodd y siaradwr eisoes. Deallaf fod modd eu gosod i ddechrau ar sero neu i ddod i lawr i sero, yn ôl y dymuniad. Bydd hynny’n golygu y bydd yr amser a gymerwyd gan bob Aelod yn weladwy i holl Aelodau’r Cynulliad ac i’r cyhoedd. Gobeithiaf, o ganlyniad i gael system cyfyngu amser glir a gweladwy a reolir o’r ddesg hon, y bydd y paramedrau’n eglur i’r Aelodau.

Datganiad Busnes

Business Statement

Andrew Davies The Business Secretary spoken in English p. 32

Andrew Davies Y Trefnydd siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 32

Before I give the next three weeks’ Plenary business statement, I inform Members of changes made to this week’s business. You will know that debate on the Nant-y-gwyddon landfill site was tabled for this afternoon. It was hoped that the Assembly would have been able to agree a resolution today to instigate an investigation into the site under section 40 of the Government of Wales Act 1998. Such an investigation would involve the participation of the Environment, Planning and Transport Committee taking evidence. For this reason, it was felt that the support of the other parties was required to endorse this proposal. Sue Essex and I felt that agreement on this had been secured, which is why I scheduled it for debate today. Unfortunately, further discussions between parties needed to take place but could not occur until this week. That is why I was unable to table a resolution for discussion today. Those discussions have now been held and it has been agreed that there should be an investigation. I will therefore table a necessary motion as soon as possible. I told the Business Committee this morning that I hoped to do this tomorrow for debate next Wednesday or the following Tuesday, 20 June.

Cyn imi roi datganiad busnes y Cyfarfod Llawn am y tair wythnos nesaf, hysbysaf yr Aelodau am y newidiadau a wnaethpwyd i fusnes yr wythnos hon. Gwyddoch fod y ddadl ar safle tirlenwi Nant-y-gwyddon wedi ei chyflwyno ar gyfer y prynhawn yma. Gobeithiwyd y buasai’r Cynulliad wedi gallu cytuno ar benderfyniad heddiw i gychwyn ymchwiliad i’r safle o dan adran 40 o Ddeddf Llywodraeth Cymru 1998. Byddai ymchwiliad o’r fath yn golygu cyfranogiad gan Bwyllgor yr Amgylchedd, Cynllunio a Thrafnidiaeth drwy iddo dderbyn tystiolaeth. Am y rheswm hwn, teimlwyd bod angen cefnogaeth y pleidiau eraill i gadarnhau’r cynnig hwn. Teimlai Sue Essex a minnau bod cytundeb wedi ei sicrhau ar hyn, a dyna pam y’i hamserlennais ar gyfer dadl heddiw. Gwaetha’r modd, yr oedd angen trafodaethau pellach rhwng pleidiau ond ni allai hynny ddigwydd tan yr wythnos hon. Dyna pam na allwn gyflwyno cynnig i’w drafod heddiw. Mae’r trafodaethau hynny wedi eu cynnal bellach a chytunwyd y dylid cael ymchwiliad. Byddaf felly’n cyflwyno cynnig angenrheidiol cyn gynted ag y bo modd. Dywedais wrth y Pwyllgor Busnes y bore yma fy mod yn gobeithio gwneud hyn yfory ar gyfer dadl ddydd Mercher nesaf neu’r dydd Mawrth canlynol, 20 Mehefin.

Business on Tuesday 13 June and Wednesday 14 June is as I reported before last week’s recess. On Tuesday 20 June there will be a debate on a motion tabled by the Liberal Democrats and a debate on the Local Road Safety Grants 2000-01 Special Grant Report. There will also be seven resolutions to approve the following items of subordinate legislation: the Colours in Food (Amendment) (Wales) Regulations 2000, the Disabled Persons (Badges for Motor Vehicles) (Wales) Regulations 2000, the Local Authorities’ Traffic Orders (Exemption for Disabled Persons) (Wales) Regulations 2000, the Education (National Curriculum) (Modern Foreign Languages) (Wales) Order 2000, the Foundation Subject (Amendment) (Wales) Order 2000, the Children (Protection from Offenders) (Amendment) (Wales) Regulations 2000 and the British Wool Marketing Scheme (Amendment) Order 2000. That is a Part 2 Order subject to parliamentary approval. Business on Wednesday 21 June is as I reported before the recess.

Mae’r busnes ddydd Mawrth 13 Mehefin a dydd Mercher 14 Mehefin fel y’i hadroddais cyn toriad yr wythnos diwethaf. Ddydd Mawrth 20 Mehefin bydd dadl ar gynnig a gyflwynwyd gan y Democratiaid Rhyddfrydol a dadl ar Adroddiad Grant Arbennig Grantiau ar gyfer Diogelwch ar y Ffyrdd yn Lleol 2000-01. Hefyd bydd saith cynnig i gymeradwyo’r eitemau canlynol o is-ddeddfwriaeth: Rheoliadau Lliwiau Mewn Bwyd (Diwygio) (Cymru) 2000, Rheoliadau Personau Anabl (Bathodynnau ar gyfer Cerbydau Modur) (Cymru) 2000, Rheoliadau Gorchmynion Traffig Awdurdodau Lleol (Esemptiadau ar gyfer Personau Anabl) (Cymru) 2000, Gorchymyn Addysg (Y Cwricwlwm Cenedlaethol) (Ieithoedd Tramor Modern) (Cymru) 2000, Gorchymyn Pwnc Sylfaen (Diwygio) (Cymru) 2000, Rheoliadau Plant (Eu Hamddiffyn rhag Troseddwyr) (Diwygio) (Cymru) 2000 a Gorchymyn Cynllun Marchnata Gwlân Prydeinig (Diwygio) 2000. Gorchymyn Rhan 2 yw hwnnw sydd yn amodol ar gymeradwyaeth y Senedd. Mae’r busnes ddydd Mercher 21 Mehefin fel yr adroddais cyn y toriad.

On Tuesday 27 June there will be a debate on a motion tabled by the Conservative Party, a debate on the Committee on European Affairs’s annual report and a motion to approve the Air Quality (Wales) Regulations 2000. On Wednesday 28 June there will be a debate on the Regional Committees and, as previously reported, a debate on the Welsh language.

Ddydd Mawrth 27 Mehefin bydd dadl ar gynnig a gyflwynwyd gan y Blaid Geidwadol, dadl ar adroddiad blynyddol y Pwyllgor Materion Ewropeaidd a chynnig i gymeradwyo Rheoliadau Ansawdd Aer (Cymru) 2000. Ddydd Mercher 28 Mehefin bydd dadl ar y Pwyllgorau Rhanbarthol ac, fel yr adroddwyd yn flaenorol, dadl ar yr iaith Gymraeg.

Nick Bourne spoken in English p. 33

Nick Bourne siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 33

I wish to comment on the Nant-y-gwyddon landfill site. I listened to what the Business Secretary said and I realise that the matter was discussed in the Business Committee this morning. However, it does not appear to have been discussed at any earlier stage among the parties that it should be dropped from the business statement endorsed in this Chamber. I am angry that the first I heard about this was from the Rhondda against the Nant-y-gwyddon Tip group. Those people are extremely concerned about the situation. They wrote to me. I thought that they must have got it wrong that this debate had been dropped. I conferred with the Presiding Officer’s office and they also knew nothing about it. Can you tell us who was consulted before this was dropped from the agenda? You did not consult our business manager. When will the debate be reinstituted? It is not in the business statement at the moment. However, I understand from what you said that the wording is agreed, therefore it could be reinstituted. It is important that these people have a proper chance to air their grievances and a proper opportunity for a full inquiry. We spend a lot of time discussing issues that do not really matter. This matters, and I feel angry that is has dropped out of what was an agreed business statement without proper consultation with the Assembly.

Dymunaf wneud sylw ar safle tirlenwi Nant-y-gwyddon. Gwrandewais ar yr hyn a ddywedodd y Trefnydd a sylweddolaf fod y mater wedi ei drafod yn y Pwyllgor Busnes y bore yma. Fodd bynnag, nid ymddengys fod trafod wedi bod o gwbl cyn hynny ymysg y pleidiau y dylid ei ollwng o’r datganiad busnes a gadarnhawyd yn y Siambr hon. Yr wyf yn ddig mai’r cyntaf a glywais am hyn oedd oddi wrth grŵp Rhondda yn erbyn Tomen Nant-y-gwyddon. Mae’r bobl hynny’n bryderus dros ben am y sefyllfa. Ysgrifenasant ataf. Credais eu bod yn sicr o fod wedi camddeall bod y ddadl hon wedi ei gollwng. Ymgynghorais â swyddfa’r Llywydd ac ni wyddent hwythau ddim amdano ychwaith. A allwch ddweud wrthym pwy yr ymgynghorwyd â hwy cyn gollwng hyn o’r agenda? Nid ymgyngorasoch â’n rheolwr busnes. Pa bryd yr ailgyflwynir y ddadl? Nid yw yn y datganiad busnes ar hyn o bryd. Fodd bynnag, deallaf o’r hyn a ddywedasoch fod y geiriad wedi ei gytuno, felly gellid ei hailgyflwyno. Mae’n bwysig i’r bobl hyn gael cyfle priodol i wyntyllu eu cwynion a chyfle priodol ar gyfer ymchwiliad llawn. Treuliwn lawer o amser yn trafod materion nad ydynt o bwys gwirioneddol. Mae hyn o bwys, a theimlaf yn ddig ei fod wedi ei ollwng o’r hyn a oedd yn ddatganiad busnes cytunedig heb ymgynghori priodol â’r Cynulliad.

Andrew Davies spoken in English p. 34

Andrew Davies siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 34

I agree with your point about addressing this issue quickly and soon. That was our commitment as an administration. Sue Essex and I have discussed this on a number of occasions, primarily with the business manager and other Members of Plaid Cymru, who tabled the original no-named-day motion many months ago. I regret the fact that it has taken a long time to reach Plenary. We had to agree on the motion with Plaid Cymru because it was tabled by it and therefore had to be discussed with that party. If an agreement on the motion was not possible, the administration felt that it was inappropriate to table the motion before further discussions. Those discussions have now taken place and we are confident that we have agreed a way forward. The motion and the supporting document that will be tabled will address the urgent serious concerns of the people who live close to the Nant-y-gwyddon tip, along with the wider concerns about waste management in Wales.

Cytunaf â’ch pwynt am roi sylw’n gyflym ac yn fuan i’r mater hwn. Dyna oedd ein hymrwymiad fel gweinyddiaeth. Mae Sue Essex a minnau wedi trafod hyn ar sawl achlysur, yn bennaf gyda rheolwr busnes ac Aelodau eraill o Blaid Cymru, a gyflwynodd y cynnig heb ddyddiad gwreiddiol sawl mis yn ôl. Mae’n ofid imi ei fod wedi cymryd amser hir i gyrraedd y Cyfarfod Llawn. Yr oedd yn rhaid inni gytuno ar y cynnig gyda Phlaid Cymru am ei fod wedi ei gyflwyno ganddi hi ac felly yr oedd yn rhaid ei drafod gyda’r blaid honno. Os na fyddai modd cytuno ar y cynnig, teimlai’r weinyddiaeth mai amhriodol fyddai cyflwyno’r cynnig cyn cael trafodaethau pellach. Mae’r trafodaethau hynny wedi digwydd bellach ac yr ydym yn ffyddiog ein bod wedi cytuno ar ffordd ymlaen. Bydd y cynnig a’r ddogfen ategol a gaiff ei chyflwyno yn ymdrin â phryderon brys difrifol y bobl sydd yn byw yn agos i domen Nant-y-gwyddon, ynghyd â’r pryderon ehangach ynghylch rheoli gwastraff yng Nghymru.

Although this is not the time to discuss the pros and cons of the proposal, as an administration we feel that the proposal for an Assembly investigation will be an innovative way to address the concerns of local people. I think that this will receive wide support. We believe that it will make a significant contribution towards developing a waste management strategy for Wales. We regret the delay and wish that it had not happened in this way. However, the debate will be held next Wednesday, or on the following Tuesday, as I reported to the Business Committee today. We will inform all the business managers as soon as we know on which day it will be held.

Er nad dyma’r adeg i drafod manteision ac anfanteision y cynnig, teimlwn fel gweinyddiaeth y bydd y cynnig ar gyfer ymchwiliad gan y Cynulliad yn fodd arloesol i ymdrin â phryderon pobl leol. Credaf y bydd hyn yn derbyn cefnogaeth eang. Credwn y bydd yn cyfrannu’n sylweddol at ddatblygu strategaeth rheoli gwastraff i Gymru. Mae’n ddrwg gennym am yr oedi a byddai’n dda gennym pe na bai wedi digwydd fel hyn. Fodd bynnag, cynhelir y ddadl ddydd Mercher nesaf, neu ar y dydd Mawrth canlynol, fel yr adroddais i’r Pwyllgor Busnes heddiw. Byddwn yn rhoi gwybod i’r holl reolwyr busnes cyn gynted ag y gwyddom ar ba ddiwrnod y’i cynhelir.

Y Loteri Genedlaethol

The National Lottery

Dafydd Elis-Thomas The Presiding Officer spoken in English p. 35

Dafydd Elis-Thomas Y Llywydd siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 35

I have selected amendments 1, 4 and 5 in the name of Elin Jones, amendments 2 and 3 in the name of Jonathan Morgan and amendment 6 in the name of Christine Humphreys.

Yr wyf wedi dethol gwelliannau 1, 4 a 5 yn enw Elin Jones, gwelliannau 2 a 3 yn enw Jonathan Morgan a gwelliant 6 yn enw Christine Humphreys.

Tom Middlehurst The Secretary for Post-16 Education and Training spoken in English p. 35

Tom Middlehurst Yr Ysgrifennydd Addysg a Hyfforddiant Ôl-16 siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 35

I propose that

Cynigiaf fod

Tom Middlehurst The Secretary for Post-16 Education and Training (continued) spoken in English p. 35

Tom Middlehurst Yr Ysgrifennydd Addysg a Hyfforddiant Ôl-16 (parhad) siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 35

In light of this, the National Assembly encourages the lottery distributing organisations to continue to allocate their funds to support the major goals of the National Assembly as set out in ‘Betterwales .com’.

Yng ngoleuni hyn, mae’r Cynulliad Cenedlaethol yn annog y sefydliadau sydd yn dosbarthu’r loteri i barhau i ddyrannu’u cyllid i gefnogi prif amcanion y Cynulliad Cenedlaethol fel y’u nodir yn ‘Gwellcymru.com’.

I am pleased to open the debate on the distribution of lottery funds in Wales. Lottery distribution impacts upon many facets of life in Wales, such as health, education and the environment, in addition to the arts, sport, charities, heritage and the millennium celebrations. A number of amendments have been tabled and I will deal with these during my speech.

Yr wyf yn falch o agor y ddadl ar ddosbarthu cyllid loteri yng Nghymru. Mae dosbarthiad y loteri yn effeithio ar lawer agwedd ar fywyd yng Nghymru, fel iechyd, addysg a’r amgylchedd, yn ogystal â’r celfyddydau, chwaraeon, elusennau, treftadaeth a dathliadau’r mileniwm. Cyflwynwyd nifer o welliannau ac ymdriniaf â’r rhain yn ystod fy araith.

Wales has benefited greatly from the National Lottery. We have landmark projects such as the Millennium Stadium and the National Botanic Garden. It is hard to imagine that either of these world class projects would have been developed without lottery funding, and we in Wales would have been deprived of their enormous contribution to our national life. We should not concentrate solely on large capital projects. The lottery is about people, as well as bricks and mortar. Large-scale projects have their place but equally, if not more, important are the thousands of lottery grants given to community groups across Wales to support a vast array of projects.

Mae Cymru wedi elwa’n fawr o’r Loteri Genedlaethol. Mae gennym brosiectau tirnod fel Stadiwm y Mileniwm a’r Ardd Fotanegol Genedlaethol. Mae’n anodd dychmygu y byddai’r naill neu’r llall o’r prosiectau hyn o safon fyd-eang wedi ei ddatblygu heb gyllid loteri, a byddem ni yng Nghymru wedi ein hamddifadu o’u cyfraniad aruthrol i’n bywyd cenedlaethol. Ni ddylem ganolbwyntio ar brosiectau cyfalaf mawr yn unig. Mae’r loteri’n ymwneud â phobl, yn ogystal ag adeiladau. Mae i brosiectau mawr eu lle ond yr un mor bwysig, os nad yn bwysicach, yw’r miloedd o grantiau loteri a roddwyd i grwpiau cymunedol ledled Cymru er mwyn cefnogi casgliad anferth o brosiectau.

As the motion states, it is vital that the Assembly works in partnership with the lottery distributors in Wales to ensure that they allocate grants in line with the major themes set out in ‘Betterwales.com’: tackling social disadvantage, providing equality of opportunity and promoting lifelong learning. That already happens, and the lottery distributors want to join with us to realise the Assembly’s long-term aims. My meetings with lottery distributors have shown that there is a shared will to work in support of our strategic objectives.

Fel y dywed y cynnig, mae’n holl bwysig i’r Cynulliad weithio mewn partneriaeth â’r dosbarthwyr loteri yng Nghymru er mwyn sicrhau eu bod yn dyrannu grantiau’n unol â’r prif themâu a nodir yn ‘Gwellcymru.com’: mynd i’r afael ag anfantais gymdeithasol, darparu cyfle cyfartal a hybu dysgu gydol oes. Mae hynny’n digwydd eisoes, ac mae’r dosbarthwyr loteri’n dymuno ymuno â ni i gyflawni nodau tymor hir y Cynulliad. Mae’r cyfarfodydd a gefais â’r dosbarthwyr loteri wedi dangos bod cydewyllys i weithio er mwyn ein hamcanion strategol.

Amendment 2 by Jonathan Morgan and amendment 6 by Christine Humphreys raise additionality—

Mae gwelliant 2 Jonathan Morgan a gwelliant 6 Christine Humphreys yn codi ychwanegedd—

Helen Mary Jones spoken in English p. 36

Helen Mary Jones siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 36

In the context of equality of opportunity, are you content with the percentage of lottery funding given to communities with high percentages of black and ethnic minority members and, particularly, to black and ethnic minority community groups? There is serious concern that money does not reach those people.

Yng nghyd-destun cyfle cyfartal, a ydych yn fodlon ar ganran y cyllid loteri a roddir i gymunedau sydd â chanrannau uchel o’u haelodau o leiafrifoedd du ac ethnig ac, yn enwedig, i grwpiau cymunedol lleiafrifoedd du ac ethnig? Mae pryder difrifol nad yw arian yn cyrraedd y bobl hynny.

Tom Middlehurst spoken in English p. 36

Tom Middlehurst siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 36

I share those concerns. I hope that one of this debate’s principle objectives is to engage with lottery distributors to ensure that funds reach less well off areas, the socially deprived and socially disadvantaged. I hope to deal with that in greater detail later.

Rhannaf y pryderon hynny. Gobeithiaf mai un o brif amcanion y ddadl hon yw cysylltu â’r dosbarthwyr loteri er mwyn sicrhau bod cyllid yn cyrraedd ardaloedd llai cefnog, y rhai a amddifadwyd yn gymdeithasol a’r rhai dan anfantais gymdeithasol. Gobeithiaf ymdrin yn fanylach â hynny’n ddiweddarach.

Returning to amendments 2 and 6, additionality is a fundamental principle on which the lottery is based. To have the best effect, lottery funds should complement existing expenditure. That is recognised, for example, in the New Opportunities Fund’s policy directions. I am happy to support these two amendments.

Gan ddychwelyd at welliannau 2 a 6, mae ychwanegedd yn egwyddor sylfaenol y seiliwyd y loteri arni. Er mwyn cael yr effaith orau, dylai cyllid loteri gydategu gwariant sydd yn bodoli eisoes. Cydnabyddir hynny, er enghraifft, yng nghyfarwyddiadau polisi’r Gronfa Cyfleoedd Newydd. Yr wyf yn falch o gefnogi’r ddau welliant hyn.

Gareth Jones siaradwyd yn Gymraeg t. 37

Gareth Jones spoken in Welsh p. 37

Wrth gyfeirio at gyfle cyfartal, gadewch inni gofio’r hyn sydd y tu ôl i’r loteri. Weithiau, mae pobl na allant fforddio prynu tocynnau yn gwneud hynny. Oherwydd na allant fforddio’r arian hwnnw, a ydych yn credu bod hynny’n achosi mwy o allgáu cymdeithasol yng Nghymru?

When referring to equal opportunity, let us remember what is behind the lottery. Sometimes, people who cannot afford to buy tickets do so. Because they cannot afford that money, do you believe that that causes more social exclusion in Wales?

Tom Middlehurst spoken in English p. 37

Tom Middlehurst siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 37

That is a superbly tenuous link to the issue that I raised. I accept fully that, in dealing with resources that have become available via the lottery, we must tackle those issues head on. We must ensure that communities benefit directly from their contributions, whether individually or collectively. I do not purchase lottery tickets but that is another issue. I am sure that there are many people like me. That does not detract from wanting to see lottery funds supporting worthwhile community projects.

Mae hynny’n gysylltiad gwych o denau â’r mater a godais. Derbyniaf yn llawn, wrth ddelio ag adnoddau sydd ar gael bellach drwy’r loteri, fod rhaid i ni fynd i’r afael yn syth â’r materion hynny. Rhaid inni sicrhau bod cymunedau’n elwa’n uniongyrchol o’u cyfraniadau, boed yn unigol neu ar y cyd. Nid wyf yn prynu tocynnau loteri ond mater arall yw hynny. Yr wyf yn sicr bod llawer o bobl debyg i mi. Nid yw hynny’n lleihau’r dymuniad i weld cyllid loteri yn cefnogi prosiectau cymunedol buddiol.

There are many examples of schemes benefiting and enriching the day-to-day lives of many thousands of people throughout Wales. There is a vast range of projects, from the renovation of urban parks, village halls, community centres and places of worship to the sponsorship of the Oscar-nominated S4C film, Solomon a Gaenor. I could list many more but time prevents me. In total, some £472.5 million has been committed in lottery grants in Wales so far, covering more than 5,500 projects.

Mae llawer o enghreifftiau o gynlluniau sydd yn gwneud lles ac yn cyfoethogi bywydau beunyddiol miloedd lawer o bobl ledled Cymru. Mae amrediad anferth o brosiectau, o adnewyddu parciau trefol, neuaddau pentref, canolfannau cymunedol ac addoldai i noddi ffilm S4C Solomon a Gaenor a enwebwyd ar gyfer Oscar. Gallwn restru llawer mwy ond nid oes digon o amser. Rhoddwyd cyfanswm o tua £472.5 miliwn mewn grantiau loteri yng Nghymru hyd yn hyn, gan gwmpasu mwy na 5,500 o brosiectau.

Janet Ryder a gododd—

Janet Ryder rose—

Tom Middlehurst spoken in English p. 37

Tom Middlehurst siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 37

I would like to proceed. Maybe you could ask questions during the debate.

Hoffwn fynd ymlaen. Efallai y gallech ofyn cwestiynau yn ystod y ddadl.

The scale of this funding makes it proper for the Assembly to debate lottery distribution. I hope that Members will have a full opportunity to participate today. Members will note from the motion that the distribution of funds concerns us today. Matters concerning the Millennium Dome and the new franchise to operate the lottery are to be dealt with by the Department for Culture, Media and Sport. We should not allow those issues to detract from this debate. DCMS is in the lead on those issues and has statutory responsibility for them. That is why I cannot support Jonathan Morgan’s amendment 3 on the Millennium Dome. Concern has been raised about funding the dome, but the extra funding granted recently will not affect New Opportunities Fund initiatives in Wales, such as after-school clubs and health projects. Their funding is secure. Future initiatives and the sums of money that will be allocated to them are still being considered by the UK Government.

Mae maint y cyllid hwn yn ei gwneud yn briodol i’r Cynulliad drafod dosbarthu’r loteri. Gobeithiaf y caiff yr Aelodau gyfle llawn i gymryd rhan heddiw. Bydd yr Aelodau’n nodi o’r cynnig mai dosbarthu cyllid sydd yn cael ein sylw heddiw. Mae materion sydd yn ymwneud â Dôm y Mileniwm a’r fasnachfraint newydd i weithredu’r loteri i’w delio â hwy gan yr Adran dros Ddiwylliant, y Cyfryngau a Chwaraeon. Ni ddylem adael i’r materion hynny dynnu oddi wrth y ddadl hon. Yr Adran dros Ddiwylliant, y Cyfryngau a Chwaraeon sydd yn arwain ar y materion hynny a hi sydd a chyfrifoldeb statudol drostynt. Dyna pam na allaf gefnogi gwelliant 3 Jonathan Morgan ar Ddôm y Mileniwm. Mynegwyd pryder ynghylch ariannu’r dôm, ond ni fydd y cyllid ychwanegol a roddwyd yn ddiweddar yn effeithio ar fentrau’r Gronfa Cyfleoedd Newydd yng Nghymru, fel clybiau ar ôl ysgol a phrosiectau iechyd. Mae eu cyllid yn ddiogel. Mae mentrau ar gyfer y dyfodol a’r symiau o arian a ddyrennir iddynt yn cael eu hystyried o hyd gan Lywodraeth y DU.

Ieuan Wyn Jones spoken in English p. 38

Ieuan Wyn Jones siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 38

Can you justify spending £700 million on the dome?

A allwch gyfiawnhau gwario £700 miliwn ar y dôm?

Tom Middlehurst spoken in English p. 38

Tom Middlehurst siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 38

I cannot justify that. The Millennium Commission is responsible for that decision. My personal view is that the money could have been better spent elsewhere—I make no apologies for saying that. But the decisions on individual lottery projects are made independently of Government. I cannot and will not comment on specific lottery decisions that Members may raise during this debate. They are matters for the National Lottery Charities Board and are designed to secure independent decisions based solely on a project’s validity.

Ni allaf gyfiawnhau hynny. Comisiwn y Mileniwm sydd yn gyfrifol am y penderfyniad hwnnw. Fy marn bersonol yw y gallesid bod wedi gwario’r arian yn well mewn mannau eraill—ni ymddiheuraf o gwbl am ddweud hynny. Ond gwneir y penderfyniadau ar brosiectau loteri unigol yn annibynnol ar y Llywodraeth. Ni allaf ac ni wnaf wneud sylw ar benderfyniadau loteri penodol y gallai Aelodau eu codi yn ystod y ddadl hon. Maent yn faterion i Fwrdd Elusennau’r Loteri Genedlaethol ac fe’u dyfeisiwyd i sicrhau penderfyniadau annibynnol wedi eu seilio’n gyfan gwbl ar ddilysrwydd y prosiect.

The National Lottery was originally set up under the National Lottery Act 1993. This Act founded the first five good causes—heritage, charities, sports, arts and the millennium celebrations. The National Lottery Act 1998 set up the sixth good cause—the New Opportunities Fund—that carries out initiatives agreed by Government in health, education and environment. Elin Jones’s amendment 4 calls upon the distributors to develop approaches to the distribution of funds that will ensure sustainable benefits. I am pleased to see our themes—as set out in ‘Betterwales.com’—reflected in that amendment. Sustainability is fundamental to ensuring that lottery money brings lasting benefits and contributes to building stronger and more prosperous communities. I therefore support Elin’s amendment 4.

Sefydlwyd y Loteri Genedlaethol yn wreiddiol o dan Ddeddf y Loteri Genedlaethol 1993. Y Ddeddf hon a sefydlodd y pum achos da cyntaf—treftadaeth, elusennau, chwaraeon, celfyddydau a dathliadau’r mileniwm. Deddf y Loteri Genedlaethol 1998 a sefydlodd y chweched achos da—y Gronfa Cyfleoedd Newydd—sydd yn cyflawni mentrau a gytunwyd gan y Llywodraeth mewn iechyd, addysg a’r amgylchedd. Mae gwelliant 4 Elin Jones yn galw ar y dosbarthwyr i ddatblygu dulliau o ddosbarthu cyllid a fydd yn sicrhau manteision cynaliadwy. Yr wyf yn falch o weld ein themâu—fel y’u nodir yn ‘Gwellcymru.com’—wedi eu hadlewyrchu yn y gwelliant hwnnw. Mae cynaliadwyedd yn holl bwysig er mwyn sicrhau bod arian loteri yn dod â manteision parhaol ac yn cyfrannu at adeiladu cymunedau cryfach a mwy llewyrchus. Yr wyf felly’n cefnogi gwelliant 4 Elin.

Sustainability is important, and I will dwell on it for a moment. We must remember that lottery funds support new projects and new opportunities. Time-limited funding is crucial to ensure that the funding stream does not become silted up, thereby reducing money available in the future for projects. In many projects where there are revenue implications, sustainability is an important factor. We must ensure that the lottery distributors take a realistic and robust view of projects to ensure that they really will be sustainable when their award ends. We must also recognise that there is a wider responsibility for local government and other organisations to consider their role in projects and how they may help achieve sustainability.

Mae cynaliadwyedd yn bwysig, ac ymdroaf gyda hynny am eiliad. Rhaid inni gofio bod cyllid loteri’n cefnogi prosiectau newydd a chyfleoedd newydd. Mae cyllid â therfyn amser yn holl bwysig er mwyn sicrhau nad yw’r ffrwd ariannu’n llenwi â llaid, gan leihau’r arian sydd ar gael yn y dyfodol ar gyfer prosiectau. Mewn llawer o brosiectau lle y mae goblygiadau refeniw, mae cynaliadwyedd yn ffactor pwysig. Rhaid inni sicrhau bod y dosbarthwyr loteri’n bwrw golwg ymarferol a chadarn ar brosiectau er mwyn sicrhau y byddant yn gynaliadwy mewn gwirionedd pan ddaw eu dyfarniad i ben. Rhaid inni gydnabod hefyd bod cyfrifoldeb ehangach ar lywodraeth leol a chyrff eraill i ystyried eu rôl mewn prosiectau a sut y gallant helpu i sicrhau cynaliadwyedd.

Janet Ryder spoken in English p. 39

Janet Ryder siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 39

You mentioned sustainability and grants to small community groups. I declare an interest as chair of a community group that has made an application for a lottery bid and has been successful—we are pleased about that. What is unsustainable, however, to many small groups is the sheer amount of paperwork that comes out after you have been successful, to ensure that you get that grant. How will you address that? No group will argue with the fact that everything must be carefully monitored and regulated and watched. However, it is getting to the stage now where many small groups need the full time help of a solicitor to go through these contracts, which can be two or three inches thick. That is not sustainable for small community groups, and if the lotteries are going to continue helping those small community groups you must do something to look at that burden of paperwork. Yes, they must be monitored, but in a way that is sustainable for the small groups themselves because many of those groups are put off applying.

Soniasoch am gynaliadwyedd a grantiau i grwpiau cymunedol bach. Datganaf fuddiant fel cadeirydd grŵp cymunedol a gyflwynodd gais am gynnig loteri ac a fu’n llwyddiannus—yr ydym yn falch o hynny. Yr hyn sydd yn anghynaliadwy i lawer o grwpiau bach, fodd bynnag, yw holl swm y gwaith papur sydd yn dod allan ar ôl ichi lwyddo, i sicrhau eich bod yn cael y grant hwnnw. Sut y byddwch yn ymdrin â hynny? Ni fydd yr un grŵp yn anghytuno bod rhaid i bopeth gael ei fonitro a’i reoleiddio a’i wylio’n ofalus. Fodd bynnag, mae wedi cyrraedd man yn awr lle y mae ar lawer o grwpiau bach angen cymorth llawn amser gan gyfreithiwr i fynd drwy’r contractau hyn, sydd yn gallu bod yn ddwy neu dair modfedd o drwch. Nid yw hynny’n gynaliadwy i grwpiau cymunedol bach, ac os yw’r loterïau i barhau i helpu’r grwpiau cymunedol bach hynny rhaid ichi wneud rhywbeth i edrych ar y baich hwnnw o waith papur. Oes, rhaid iddynt gael eu monitro, ond mewn modd sydd yn gynaliadwy i’r grwpiau bach eu hunain oherwydd mae llawer o’r grwpiau hynny’n cael eu troi oddi ar ymgeisio.

Tom Middlehurst spoken in English p. 40

Tom Middlehurst siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 40

I will certainly consider mechanisms to ensure that we do not disadvantage small groups within communities. I am aware of the criticisms of the bureaucracy and the administration that are attached to lottery bids. It is important that we address those issues, and I intend to do so with the lottery distributors to see whether we can make it easier for individual community groups to successfully bid for funding.

Byddaf yn sicr yn ystyried mecanweithiau er mwyn sicrhau nad ydym yn rhoi grwpiau bach oddi mewn i gymunedau o dan anfantais. Yr wyf yn ymwybodol o’r feirniadaeth ar y fiwrocratiaeth a’r weinyddiaeth sydd ynghlwm wrth cheisiadau loteri. Mae’n bwysig inni roi sylw i’r materion hynny, a bwriadaf wneud hynny gyda’r dosbarthwyr loteri i weld a oes modd inni ei gwneud yn haws i grwpiau cymunedol unigol ymgeisio’n llwyddiannus am gyllid.

It is important that we work with local government and other organisations to consider their role in projects. Considerable work is done by the voluntary sector in supporting the preparation and submission of lottery bids and in the eventual operation of those projects. The support of the voluntary sector is not enough. We need to provide mechanism support through other means. I will explore those possibilities with potential partners.

Mae’n bwysig inni weithio gyda llywodraeth leol a chyrff eraill er mwyn ystyried eu rôl mewn prosiectau. Cyflawnir gwaith sylweddol gan y sector gwirfoddol wrth roi cymorth i baratoi a chyflwyno ceisiadau loteri ac yng ngweithrediad y prosiectau hynny yn y pen draw. Nid yw cefnogaeth y sector gwirfoddol yn ddigon. Mae angen inni ddarparu cymorth mecanwaith drwy ddulliau eraill. Byddaf yn ymchwilio i’r posibiliadau hynny gyda phartneriaid posibl.

I turn to the structure of distribution in Wales. There are six lottery distributors in Wales, four of which are UK distribution bodies sponsored by the Department of Culture, Media and Sport—the National Lottery Charities Board, the Heritage Lottery Fund, the Millennium Commission and the New Opportunities Fund. The Department of Culture, Media and Sport issues policy and financial direction to these bodies but we in Wales are able to issue separate guidelines if we choose. We have an opportunity today to consider those issues. All these UK bodies, with the exception of the Millennium Commission which is winding down, have offices in Wales and have either completed or are in the process of completing separate and distinctive strategic plans for Wales. We also have two Welsh-based distributors which are Assembly sponsored public bodies; the Sports Council for Wales and the Arts Council of Wales. They do this through Sportlot and Arts for All. Both of them distribute lottery funds in line with policy directions issued by the Assembly. They work closely with local communities. Sportlot has offices across Wales, in Deeside, Cardiff and Carmarthen and also has regional committees to support that activity. That may be a model of good practice that other lottery distributors might want to consider. We would want to consider building upon the best practice that exists.

Trof at y strwythur dosbarthu yng Nghymru. Mae chwe dosbarthwr loteri yng Nghymru, pedwar ohonynt yn gyrff dosbarthu’r DU a noddir gan yr Adran Diwylliant, y Cyfryngau a Chwaraeon—Bwrdd Elusennau’r Loteri Genedlaethol, Cronfa Dreftadaeth y Loteri, Comisiwn y Mileniwm a’r Gronfa Cyfleoedd Newydd. Mae’r Adran Diwylliant, y Cyfryngau a Chwaraeon yn rhoi cyfarwyddyd polisi a chyllidol i’r cyrff hyn ond gallwn ni yng Nghymru roi canllawiau ar wahân os dewiswn. Mae gennym gyfle heddiw i ystyried y materion hynny. Mae gan holl gyrff y DU swyddfeydd yng Nghymru, ac eithrio Comisiwn y Mileniwm sydd yn dod i ben, ac maent un ai wedi cwblhau neu wrthi’n cwblhau cynlluniau strategol penodol ar wahân i Gymru. Mae gennym hefyd ddau ddosbarthwr a leolir yng Nghymru sydd yn gyrff cyhoeddus a noddir gan y Cynulliad, sef Cyngor Chwaraeon Cymru a Chyngor Celfyddydau Cymru. Gwnânt hyn drwy Sportlot a’r Celfyddydau i Bawb. Mae’r ddau ohonynt yn dosbarthu cyllid loteri yn unol â chyfarwyddiadau polisi a roddir gan y Cynulliad. Gweithiant yn agos gyda chymunedau lleol. Mae gan Sportlot swyddfeydd ledled Cymru, yng Nglannau Dyfrdwy, Caerdydd a Chaerfyrddin ac mae ganddo bwyllgorau rhanbarthol hefyd i gynnal y gweithgaredd hwnnw. Efallai bod hynny’n batrwm o arfer da y byddai dosbarthwyr loteri eraill am ei ystyried efallai. Dymunem ystyried adeiladu ar yr arfer gorau sydd yn bod.

How can we turn the current situation into the maximum advantage for the people of Wales? You will agree that we must ensure that lottery funding is used most effectively. That means that money should be spent on those areas that need it most, on the basis of programmes that are relevant to Wales and in support of the Assembly’s wider aims and objectives. I expect these considerations to provide the framework for the determination of the lottery distribution bodies’ policy. In my recent meetings with the distributors I was pleased and impressed by their enthusiasm for working with the Assembly. They have shown me that they are aware of Welsh interest. It is upon that enthusiasm and awareness that we must begin to work.

Sut y gallwn droi’r sefyllfa bresennol er y budd mwyaf posibl i bobl Cymru? Byddwch yn cytuno bod rhaid inni sicrhau y caiff cyllid loteri ei ddefnyddio yn y modd mwyaf effeithiol. Golyga hynny y dylid gwario arian ar y meysydd hynny y mae arnynt ei angen fwyaf, ar sail rhaglenni sydd yn berthnasol i Gymru ac er mwyn nodau ac amcanion ehangach y Cynulliad. Disgwyliaf i’r ystyriaethau hyn ddarparu’r fframwaith i benderfynu polisi’r cyrff dosbarthu loteri. Yn y cyfarfodydd a gefais yn ddiweddar â’r dosbarthwyr, yr oeddwn yn falch ac yn edmygus o’u brwdfrydedd dros weithio gyda’r Cynulliad. Dangosasant i mi eu bod yn ymwybodol o fuddiant Cymru. Ar y brwdfrydedd a’r ymwybyddiaeth honno y mae’n rhaid inni ddechrau gweithio.

Elin Jones’s amendment 1 suggests that we call upon the distributors to target areas of social disadvantage. I ensure you that I have raised this with the distributors and that it is already happening. Distributors have the ability to target particular areas for grant applications and if that does not succeed they can actively solicit bids. That is a positive development. I am happy, therefore, to accept Elin’s amendment.

Mae gwelliant 1 Elin Jones yn awgrymu ein bod yn galw ar y dosbarthwyr i dargedu ardaloedd o anfantais gymdeithasol. Fe’ch sicrhaf fy mod wedi codi hyn gyda’r dosbarthwyr a’i fod yn digwydd eisoes. Mae’r gallu gan ddosbarthwyr i dargedu ardaloedd penodol ar gyfer ceisiadau grant ac os nad yw hyn yn llwyddo gallant ofyn am geisiadau yn weithredol. Mae hynny’n ddatblygiad cadarnhaol. Yr wyf yn falch, felly, o dderbyn gwelliant Elin.

Christine Humphreys’s amendment 6 proposes that the end of the motion be expanded to include a statement to ensure that the lottery funds are distributed equitably. I accept this amendment and I am certain that the distributors would also. I will use two examples to demonstrate how we can ensure that the lottery distributors are working with the Assembly. First, the Heritage Lottery Fund. As I explained, this distributor makes awards for heritage, environment and conservation projects. In 1999-2000 nearly £7 million was awarded by the Wales Office. This is a considerable amount of money that provides a significant contribution to the preservation of our heritage. In the context of the UK Heritage Lottery Fund’s strategic plan, the Wales Office has produced a specific framework document covering Wales and responding to the unique requirements of Wales. I endorse that approach as a sound first step in joint working.

Mae gwelliant 6 Christine Humphreys yn awgrymu ehangu diwedd y cynnig i gynnwys datganiad i sicrhau y caiff y cyllid loteri ei ddosbarthu’n deg. Derbyniaf y gwelliant hwn ac yr wyf yn sicr y gwnâi’r dosbarthwyr hefyd. Defnyddiaf ddwy enghraifft i ddangos sut y gallwn sicrhau bod y dosbarthwyr loteri’n gweithio gyda’r Cynulliad. Yn gyntaf, Cronfa Dreftadaeth y Loteri. Fel yr eglurais, mae’r dosbarthwr hwn yn rhoi dyfarniadau ar gyfer prosiectau treftadaeth, yr amgylchedd a chadwraeth. Yn 1999-2000 dyfarnwyd bron £7 miliwn gan Swyddfa Cymru. Mae hyn yn gryn swm o arian sydd yn cyfrannu’n sylweddol at gadw ein treftadaeth. Yng nghyd-destun cynllun strategol Cronfa Dreftadaeth Loteri y DU, mae Swyddfa Cymru wedi llunio dogfen fframwaith benodol sydd yn ymwneud â Chymru ac yn ymateb i anghenion unigryw Cymru. Cefnogaf y dull gweithredu hwnnw fel cam cyntaf cadarn mewn gweithio ar y cyd.

To make the best of the complementality of lottery and Assembly funding we must ensure that the links between the Assembly and distributing bodies are set out clearly. This will be either through the preparation of specific plans for Wales or, in other cases, through our powers in determining who is appointed to represent our interests on UK committees and boards. This is particularly important when we look at my second example, the New Opportunities Fund. You will all be aware of the New Opportunities Fund and the range of good work it has been promoting in the areas of health, environment and education. When the Millennium Commission is wound up, the money will be re-directed to the New Opportunities Fund. This will make it the most significant of the lottery bodies, receiving a third of all available funding. In cash terms, this will be around £500 million a year across the UK and about £33 million in Wales.

Er mwyn gwneud y gorau o gyflenwoldeb cyllid loteri a chyllid Cynulliad rhaid inni sicrhau bod y cysylltiadau rhwng y Cynulliad a’r cyrff dosbarthu wedi eu nodi’n eglur. Gwneir hyn un ai drwy baratoi cynlluniau penodol i Gymru neu, mewn achosion eraill, drwy ein pwerau wrth benderfynu pwy a benodir i gynrychioli ein buddiannau ar bwyllgorau a byrddau’r DU. Mae hyn yn arbennig o bwysig pan edrychwn ar yr ail enghraifft sydd gennyf, y Gronfa Cyfleoedd Newydd. Byddwch yn ymwybodol o’r Gronfa Cyfleoedd Newydd a’r amrediad o waith da a hyrwyddodd ym meysydd iechyd, yr amgylchedd ac addysg. Pan ddaw Comisiwn y Mileniwm i ben, ailgyfeirir yr arian i’r Gronfa Cyfleoedd Newydd. Drwy hynny, ef fydd y pwysicaf o’r cyrff loteri, gan dderbyn un rhan o dair o’r holl gyllid sydd ar gael. Yn nhermau arian, bydd hyn tua £500 miliwn y flwyddyn ledled y DU a thua £33 miliwn yng Nghymru.

We have always participated fully in the joint work with the Department for Culture, Media and Sport and others in formulating the policy directions. Members will be aware of some of the initiatives, for example healthy living centres, the cancer care and treatment initiative, green spaces and sustainable communities and the out of school childcare and learning initiatives. These are laudable and widely supported. However, we must begin to set our own priorities to support the Assembly’s aims and objectives. Furthermore, are the levels of funding allocated to each one in proportion in terms of the needs of Wales? These are decisions that we must take here in Wales. In future, we must widen our range of approach. The overall vision of UK priorities has had its place in the first major wave of lottery funded activity. It may still do from time to time in the future. However, there should now be increasing scope for core strategic direction of lottery funds to reflect our own policies and needs in Wales. This will require a different response to, and support from, the lottery distributors. That response, and the funding that they make available in Wales, is of significant importance.

Yr ydym yn cymryd rhan lawn erioed yn y gwaith ar y cyd â’r Adran Diwylliant, y Cyfryngau a Chwaraeon ac eraill wrth lunio’r cyfarwyddiadau polisi. Bydd yr Aelodau’n ymwybodol o rai o’r mentrau, er enghraifft, canolfannau byw’n iach, y fenter gofal a thriniaeth canser, mannau glas a chymunedau cynaliadwy a’r mentrau gofal plant a dysgu y tu allan i’r ysgol. Mae’r rhain yn ganmoladwy ac mae cefnogaeth eang iddynt. Fodd bynnag, rhaid inni ddechrau pennu ein blaenoriaethau ein hunain er mwyn ategu nodau ac amcanion y Cynulliad. Ymhellach, a yw’r lefelau o gyllid a ddyrennir i bob un yn gymesur o ran anghenion Cymru? Mae’r rhain yn benderfyniadau y bydd yn rhaid inni eu gwneud yma yng Nghymru. Yn y dyfodol, rhaid inni ehangu amrediad ein dull o weithredu. Yr oedd lle i’r weledigaeth gyffredinol o flaenoriaethau’r DU yn y don fawr gyntaf o weithgaredd a ariannwyd gan y loteri. Efallai y bydd eto o bryd i’w gilydd yn y dyfodol. Fodd bynnag, dylai fod cyfle cynyddol yn awr i gyfarwyddo strategol craidd ar gyllid loteri er mwyn adlewyrchu ein polisïau a’n hanghenion ni yng Nghymru. Bydd hyn yn gofyn ymateb a chefnogaeth wahanol gan ddosbarthwyr loteri. Mae’r ymateb hwnnw, a’r cyllid a ddarparant yng Nghymru, o bwys sylweddol.

As well as being able to determine core priorities for expenditure, there is a further issue that we must keep in view. Wales must always receive its fair share of the available funds. This is clearly a more complex matter than simply saying that the people of Wales spend so much on tickets and that is what they must get back. We all know that half of the money spent on the lottery is given out in prizes. After the tax, Camelot’s operating costs, amounting to 5p in the pound, and the retailers’ costs of 5p in the pound have been met there is 28p left for distribution to good causes. From this, we must ensure that the allocation mechanism between the component parts of the UK is fair and objective. In amendment 5, Elin proposes that the motion should be changed to ensure that we seek to maximise the funds that are available to distributors in Wales. It goes without saying that my colleagues and I continually fight to ensure that the Assembly receives its full share of available funding. I will tell you how I am doing that in a moment. I agree with Elin and will therefore readily support amendment 5.

Yn ogystal â gallu penderfynu blaenoriaethau craidd ar gyfer gwariant, mae mater pellach y mae’n rhaid inni gadw golwg arno. Rhaid i Gymru bob amser dderbyn ei chyfran deg o’r cyllid sydd ar gael. Mae’n amlwg bod hyn yn fater mwy cymhleth na dweud yn syml bod pobl Cymru’n gwario hyn a hyn ar docynnau ac mai hynny y dylent ei gael yn ôl. Gwyddom oll fod hanner yr arian a werir ar y loteri yn cael ei roi mewn gwobrau. Ar ôl talu treth, costau gweithredu Camelot, sydd yn dod i 5c yn y bunt, a chostau’r adwerthwyr o 5c yn y bunt, mae 28c ar ôl i’w ddosbarthu i achosion da. O hynny, rhaid inni sicrhau bod y dull dyrannu rhwng rhannau cyfansawdd y DU yn deg ac yn wrthrychol. Yng ngwelliant 5, mae Elin yn awgrymu y dylid newid y cynnig i sicrhau ein bod yn ceisio amlhau’r cyllid sydd ar gael i ddosbarthwyr yng Nghymru. Nid oes angen dweud bod fy nghydweithwyr a minnau’n ymladd o hyd i sicrhau bod y Cynulliad yn derbyn ei gyfran lawn o’r cyllid sydd ar gael. Dywedaf wrthych sut yr wyf yn gwneud hynny ymhen eiliad. Cytunaf ag Elin a byddaf felly’n barod i gefnogi gwelliant 5.

I have concerns about the amount of money that we receive to fund arts and sport in Wales. The Department for Culture, Media and Sport has now agreed that it will undertake a fundamental review of the basis on which our percentage share is calculated. At the moment, Wales receives only 5 per cent of funds for arts and 4.5 per cent for sport. That compares with 6.5 per cent for the New Opportunities Fund and 6.5 per cent for the National Lottery Charities Board. We will participate fully and robustly in the review that is currently taking place. I want to establish a common basis on which Wales receives its share of funds. That basis must take account of more than population numbers. It must recognise the levels of socio-economic deprivation and social disadvantage, lower levels of good health and the distinctive environmental needs that we have in Wales.

Mae gennyf bryderon ynghylch y swm o arian a dderbyniwn i ariannu’r celfyddydau a chwaraeon yng Nghymru. Mae’r Adran Diwylliant, y Cyfryngau a Chwaraeon yn cytuno’n awr y bydd yn ymgymryd ag adolygiad sylfaenol o’r sail y cyfrifir ein cyfran ganrannol arni. Ar hyn o bryd, nid yw Cymru ond yn derbyn 5 y cant o’r cyllid ar gyfer y celfyddydau a 4.5 y cant ar gyfer chwaraeon. Mae hynny’n cymharu â 6.5 y cant ar gyfer y Gronfa Cyfleoedd Newydd a 6.5 y cant ar gyfer Bwrdd Elusennau’r Loteri Genedlaethol. Byddwn yn cymryd rhan lawn a chadarn yn yr adolygiad sydd yn digwydd ar hyn o bryd. Dymunaf sefydlu sail gyffredin ar gyfer y gyfran o gyllid y mae Cymru’n ei derbyn. Rhaid i’r sail honno roi ystyriaeth i bethau eraill yn ogystal â nifer y boblogaeth. Rhaid iddi gydnabod y lefelau o amddifadedd cymdeithasol-economaidd ac anfantais gymdeithasol, lefelau is o iechyd da a’r anghenion amgylcheddol neilltuol sydd gennym yng Nghymru.

Pauline Jarman spoken in English p. 44

Pauline Jarman siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 44

Can I pick up on a point that you made earlier and have repeated now? You listed the sums of money that are taken from players’ money before it is distributed by the organisations. I think that you will agree that the operators of the National Lottery must operate in a socially responsible way. You said earlier that you do not buy lottery tickets and you are obviously not a gambling person by instinct. The Assembly must fully acknowledge the serious issue that the National Lottery represents a significant part of the UK gaming market. How confident can you be that players on a low income do not spend disproportionately to their income and that gambling addiction is not encouraged? What is being done to eliminate excessive play and to ensure that individuals and communities are not impoverished?

A gaf ddilyn pwynt a wnaethoch yn gynharach a’i ailadrodd yn awr? Rhestrasoch y symiau o arian a gymerir o arian y chwaraewyr cyn ei ddosbarthu gan y cyrff. Credaf y byddwch yn cytuno bod rhaid i weithredwyr y Loteri Genedlaethol weithredu mewn modd cymdeithasol gyfrifol. Dywedasoch yn gynharach nad ydych yn prynu tocynnau loteri ac mae’n amlwg nad ydych yn hapchwaraewr wrth reddf. Rhaid i’r Cynulliad lwyr gydnabod y mater difrifol bod y Loteri Genedlaethol yn cynrychioli rhan helaeth o’r farchnad hapchwarae yn y DU. Pa mor ffyddiog y gallwch fod nad yw chwaraewyr ar incwm isel yn gwario’n anghymesur â’u hincwm ac na hybir dibyniaeth ar hapchwarae? Beth a wneir i ddileu chwarae gormodol a sicrhau na chaiff unigolion a chymunedau eu tlodi?

Tom Middlehurst spoken in English p. 44

Tom Middlehurst siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 44

It is extremely difficult for anybody in authority to try to regulate the amount of money that people spend on a particular activity. People choose to spend money on the lottery. They want to try to buy a chance to win. I acknowledge that gambling is a problem in society, but it does not only relate to the lottery. It relates to many other activities. No Government or politician could regulate how people spend their money.

Mae’n anodd dros ben i unrhyw un mewn awdurdod geisio rheoleiddio’r swm o arian y mae pobl yn ei wario ar weithgaredd penodol. Mae pobl yn dewis gwario arian ar y loteri. Dymunant geisio prynu cyfle i ennill. Cydnabyddaf fod hapchwarae’n broblem mewn cymdeithas, ond nid yw’n ymwneud â’r loteri yn unig. Mae’n ymwneud â llawer o weithgareddau eraill. Ni allai’r un Llywodraeth neu wleidydd reoleiddio sut y mae pobl yn gwario eu harian.

To return to my earlier comments about needs in Wales, I am concerned about the low take-up of grant in some areas of Wales. This was highlighted in the coalfield report, which was published yesterday by the Department for Culture, Media and Sport. It is a valuable contribution to the subject and has some direct application in Wales, considering our history. I want to follow up that work in the proposed working group. I see this as a much wider issue. Other parts of the country also have a low take-up of lottery grants. Although some areas have been deindustrialised through the ending of steelmaking or slate production, we must not forget the problems of rural communities or seaside towns. I intend to raise these issues with the distributing bodies. It is crucial that we do so. I welcome the initiative and Chris Smith’s announcement on the coalfields issue.

A dychwelyd at fy sylwadau cynharach am anghenion Cymru, pryderaf ynghylch y derbyniad isel o grantiau mewn rhai ardaloedd yng Nghymru. Tynnwyd sylw at hyn yn yr adroddiad ar feysydd glo, a gyhoeddwyd ddoe gan yr Adran Diwylliant, y Cyfryngau a Chwaraeon. Mae’n gyfraniad gwerthfawr i’r pwnc ac mae rhywfaint ohono’n uniongyrchol berthnasol i Gymru, o ystyried ein hanes. Dymunaf ddilyn y gwaith hwnnw yn y gweithgor arfaethedig. Gwelaf hyn yn fater ehangach o lawer. Ceir derbyniad isel o grantiau loteri mewn rhannau eraill o’r wlad. Er bod rhai ardaloedd wedi eu dad-ddiwydiannu drwy orffen gwneud dur neu gynhyrchu llechi, rhaid inni beidio ag anghofio problemau cymunedau gwledig neu drefi glan môr. Bwriadaf godi’r materion hyn gyda’r cyrff dosbarthu. Mae’n holl bwysig inni wneud hynny. Croesawaf y fenter a chyhoeddiad Chris Smith ar fater y meysydd glo.

The National Lottery has already funded a lot of good work in Wales. We must not get too hung-up on the flagship schemes, although they are important in putting Wales on the national and international maps. We must remember the hundreds, if not thousands, of small grants to communities and small organisations that have made a difference to real lives. I want to continue and to improve those schemes by ensuring that the Assembly and the lottery distributors work together. We must use the money to best effect to ensure that we make the biggest difference and that Wales gets its fair share of available resources.

Mae’r Loteri Genedlaethol eisoes wedi ariannu llawer o waith da yng Nghymru. Rhaid inni beidio â gwirioni gormod ar y cynlluniau mawreddog, er eu bod yn bwysig wrth roi Cymru ar y mapiau cenedlaethol a rhyngwladol. Rhaid inni gofio’r cannoedd, os nad miloedd, o grantiau bach i gymunedau a mudiadau bach a wnaeth wahaniaeth i fywydau go iawn. Dymunaf barhau a gwella’r cynlluniau hynny drwy sicrhau bod y Cynulliad a’r dosbarthwyr loteri yn gweithio gyda’i gilydd. Rhaid inni ddefnyddio’r arian yn y modd mwyaf effeithiol er mwyn sicrhau y gwnawn y gwahaniaeth mwyaf a bod Cymru’n cael ei chyfran deg o’r adnoddau sydd ar gael.

Elin Jones spoken in English p. 45

Elin Jones siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 45

I propose amendment 1. At the end of the first clause, add

Cynigiaf welliant 1. Ar ddiwedd y cymal cyntaf, ychwaneger

Elin Jones (continued) spoken in English p. 45

Elin Jones (parhad) siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 45

I propose amendment 4. At the end of the second clause, remove the full stop and add

Cynigiaf welliant 4. Tynner yr atalnod llawn o ddiwedd yr ail gymal ac ychwanegu

Elin Jones (continued) spoken in English p. 45

Elin Jones (parhad) siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 45

I propose amendment 5. In the last paragraph, add after ‘National Assembly’

Cynigiaf welliant 5. Yn y paragraff olaf, ychwaneger ar ôl ‘Cynulliad Cenedlaethol’

Elin Jones (continued) spoken in Welsh and English p. 46

Elin Jones (parhad) siaradwyd yn Gymraeg ac yn Saesneg t. 46

I welcome the debate today and welcome also many of the Secretary for Post-16 Education and Training’s comments. I support the content of amendments 2 and 3 in the name of Jonathan Morgan and amendment 6 in the name of Christine Humphreys. However, I am struck by the audacity of the Welsh Conservative Party in amendment 3. Did they think that we would forget that the dome was a Tory initiative in the first place?

yn Saesneg Croesawaf y ddadl heddiw a chroesawaf hefyd lawer o sylwadau’r Ysgrifennydd Addysg a Hyfforddiant Ôl-16. Cefnogaf gynnwys gwelliannau 2 a 3 yn enw Jonathan Morgan a gwelliant 6 yn enw Christine Humphreys. Fodd bynnag, fe’m trawir gan ddigywilydd-dra Plaid Geidwadol Cymru yng ngwelliant 3. A gredent y byddem yn anghofio bod y dôm yn fenter Dorïaidd yn y lle cyntaf?

The underlying problem with the dome is that it was a bad idea in the first place. How could anybody have thought that an entertainment monstrosity constructed in the south-east of England could be of any benefit or of any millennial interest to communities in the rest of the UK? It is of little interest to many people. More importantly, it is well outside the reach of affordability for many people. Travel costs and entry costs have proven far too expensive for many individuals and families. The dome was conceived by civil servants, politicians, focus groups and big business in the south-east of England. It is still being paid for today by those who buy lottery tickets every week in Blackwood, Cardigan and Wrexham. It has received a total subsidy to date of around £700 million. It would be worthwhile for the Welsh Conservative Party—if they were here and not out buying their mid-week lottery ticket—to pause for thought before jumping on their high horse in the next Assembly building debate and consider how many children’s hospitals could have been paid for with £700 million of lottery public subsidy for the dome.

yn Saesneg Y broblem sylfaenol gyda’r dôm yw ei fod yn syniad gwael yn y lle cyntaf. Sut y gallai neb gredu y gallai erchyllter adloniant a godwyd yn ne-ddwyrain Lloegr fod o unrhyw fudd neu o unrhyw ddiddordeb milflwyddol i gymunedau yng ngweddill y DU? Nid yw o fawr ddiddordeb i lawer o bobl. Yn bwysicach, mae ymhell y tu hwnt i allu llawer o bobl ei fforddio. Mae costau teithio a chostau mynediad wedi profi’n rhy ddrud o lawer i lawer o unigolion a theuluoedd. Meddyliwyd am y dôm gan weision sifil, gwleidyddion, grwpiau ffocws a byd masnach yn ne-ddwyrain Lloegr. Telir amdano o hyd heddiw gan y rhai sydd yn prynu tocynnau loteri bob wythnos yn y Coed Duon, Aberteifi a Wrecsam. Derbyniodd gyfanswm o gymhorthdal hyd yn hyn o tua £700 miliwn. Byddai’n fuddiol i Blaid Geidwadol Cymru—pe baent yma ac nid allan yn prynu eu tocyn loteri ganol wythnos—aros a meddwl cyn mynd ar gefn eu ceffyl yn y ddadl nesaf ar adeilad y Cynulliad ac ystyried pa nifer o ysbytai plant y gallesid talu amdanynt â £700 miliwn o gymhorthdal cyhoeddus y loteri i’r dôm.

Nid oes amheuaeth bod y loteri wedi bod yn sbardun a ffynhonnell ariannol bwysig i gynlluniau ar hyd a lled Cymru: cynlluniau mawr megis Stadiwm y Mileniwm, yr Ardd Fotaneg Genedlaethol a’r ganolfan gelfyddydau newydd yn Aberystwyth. Bu llawer o gynlluniau bach hefyd: neuaddau pentrefi, clybiau chwaraeon ac ysgolion meithrin. Ar yr wyneb ymddengys bod y loteri yn gaffaeliad mawr i gymunedau Cymru.

in Welsh There is no doubt that the lottery has been an important catalyst and source of finance for schemes throughout Wales: large schemes such as the Millennium Stadium, the National Botanic Gardens and the new arts centre in Aberystwyth. There have been many small schemes also: village halls, sports clubs and nursery schools. Superficially it appears that the lottery has been a great asset to Wales’s communities.

Fodd bynnag, o dan yr wyneb mae’r stori yn wahanol. Dengys y patrwm o ddosrannu adnoddau’r loteri yn glir mai’r ardaloedd cyfoethocaf yng Nghymru a dderbyniodd y rhan helaethaf o arian y loteri, a’r ardaloedd tlotaf a dderbyniodd y ganran leiaf. Yn hytrach na gwasgaru arian yn gyfartal drwy Gymru, llwyddodd y loteri i ychwanegu at y gwahaniaethau rhwng y cyfleusterau a’r gwasanaethau sydd ar gael yn ein hardaloedd mwyaf breintiedig a rhai ein hardaloedd lleiaf breintiedig.

in Welsh However, the story is different under the surface. The pattern of distributing lottery resources shows clearly that the wealthiest areas of Wales received the greatest share of lottery money, and the poorest areas received the smallest percentage. Instead of spreading the money equally through Wales, the lottery succeeded in adding to the differences between the facilities and services available in our most privileged areas and those of our least privileged areas.

Mae hyn yn digwydd wrth i ymchwil ddangos mai’r bobl sydd â’r incwm isaf sydd yn gwario’r ganran uchaf o’u hincwm ar docynnau loteri. Ceir ailddosbarthu incwm o’r tlawd i’r cyfoethocaf, ac o’r ardaloedd mwyaf difreintiedig i’r rhai mwyaf breintiedig. Dywedodd yr Ysgrifennydd yn ei gyflwyniad nad yw’n prynu tocyn loteri. Nid oes angen mwy o arian ar rywun sydd yn ennill £60,000 yn barod, ond mae angen y cyfle am fwy o arian ar rywun sydd yn ennill £6,000 y flwyddyn. Dyna pam mai’r tlawd sydd yn prynu tocynnau loteri ac nid Ysgrifenyddion y Cynulliad.

in Welsh This is happening when research shows that the people with the lowest income spend the highest percentage of their income on lottery tickets. There is a redistribution of income from the poor to the wealthiest people, and from the most disadvantaged areas to the most privileged. The Secretary said in his introduction that he does not buy a lottery ticket. Someone who already earns £60,000 does not need more money, but someone who earns £6,000 a year does need the chance of more money. That is why it is the poor who buy lottery tickets and not Assembly Secretaries.

Mae ffigurau’r Adran Diwylliant, Cyfryngau a Chwaraeon ar wasgaru arian loteri yng Nghymru yn frawychus. O gronfa’r mileniwm dyfarnwyd £73 miliwn hyd yn hyn i ardal awdurdod lleol Caerdydd a £5,000 yn unig i Flaenau Gwent. Dyfarnwyd £35 miliwn i Sir Gaerfyrddin a £5,000 i Ferthyr Tudful ac i Ynys Môn. Mae rhai o gynlluniau mawr cronfa’r mileniwm yn gynlluniau strategol cenedlaethol sydd i fod o fudd i Gymru gyfan. Bydd yn ddiddorol monitro faint o bobl Blaenau Gwent a fydd yn ymweld â’r gerddi botaneg a faint o bobl Ynys Môn a fydd yn ymweld â Chanolfan y Mileniwm yng Nghaerdydd.

in Welsh The Department of Culture, Media and Sport’s figures on the distribution of lottery money in Wales are startling. From the millennium fund £73 million has been awarded to Cardiff’s local authority area and only £5,000 to Blaenau Gwent. Carmarthenshire was awarded £35 million and £5,000 to Merthyr Tydfil and Anglesey. Some of the large schemes from the millennium fund are national strategic schemes for the benefit of the whole of Wales. It will be interesting to monitor how many people from Blaenau Gwent will visit the botanic gardens and how many people from Anglesey will visit the Millennium Centre in Cardiff.

Byddai dosraniad arian y mileniwm yn fwy derbyniol pe na fyddai’r un patrwm yn bodoli ym meysydd eraill y loteri. Yn anffodus, yr un patrwm sydd yn amlwg yn arian y loteri o ran y celfyddydau, chwaraeon, treftadaeth a’r elusennau: £1 miliwn o gronfa’r elusennau i Flaenau Gwent, £13 miliwn i Gaerdydd ac £8 miliwn i Bowys. £500,000 o gronfa’r celfyddydau i Ferthyr Tudful, a £30 miliwn i Gaerdydd a £14 miliwn i Gasnewydd. Dim ond £200,000 o’r gronfa chwaraeon i Flaenau Gwent tra bo £11 miliwn wedi’u dyfarnu i Gaerdydd.

in Welsh The millennium money allocations would be more acceptable if the same pattern did not exist in other areas of the lottery. Unfortunately, the same pattern is evident in lottery money in the arts, sport, heritage and charities: £1 million from the charities fund for Blaenau Gwent, £13 million for Cardiff and £8 million for Powys. £500,000 from the arts fund for Merthyr Tydfil, and £30 million for Cardiff and £14 million for Newport. Only £200,000 from the sports fund for Blaenau Gwent while £11 million was awarded to Cardiff.

Mae’r ffigurau hyn yn dorcalonnus. Pan drafodasom ddangosyddion allgáu cymdeithasol yn y siambr hon yn y gorffennol, gwelsom Flaenau Gwent a Merthyr Tudful ar frig tablau’r gwahanol fesurau o allgáu cymdeithasol. Heddiw mae ffigurau’r loteri yn dangos bod Blaenau Gwent a Merthyr Tudful, a chymunedau difreintiedig lu eraill, yn derbyn llawer yn is na’r cyfartaledd o fuddsoddiad y loteri.

in Welsh These figures are heartbreaking. When we discussed social exclusion indicators in this chamber in the past, we saw that Blaenau Gwent and Merthyr Tydfil were at the top of the tables of the different measures of social exclusion. Today the lottery figures show that Blaenau Gwent and Merthyr Tydfil, and many other disadvantaged communities, receive much less than the average lottery investment.

Rhaid i ddosbarthwyr arian y loteri edrych o ddifrif ar gywiro’r anghyfartaledd hwn. Mae’n rhaid iddynt wneud hyn mewn modd blaenweithgar gan wahaniaethu o blaid y cymunedau hynny sydd heb dderbyn eu dogn o fuddsoddiad y loteri. Yr oeddwn i’n falch o glywed sylwadau cadarnhaol yr Ysgrifennydd wrth iddo sôn am hyn. Rhaid cydnabod bod rhai o ddosbarthwyr y loteri eisoes yn cydnabod bod angen gwneud y gwaith hwn. Mae datganiad bwriad gan Fwrdd Elusennau’r Loteri, yn eu cynllun strategol i Gymru, sydd yn dweud bod rhaid rhoi grantiau i helpu bodloni anghenion y bobl hynny sydd o dan yr anfantais fwyaf yn y gymdeithas a gwella ansawdd bywyd yn y gymuned.

in Welsh Those who distribute the lottery funds must look seriously at rectifying this inequality. They must do this in a proactive way, discriminating in favour of those communities who have not received their fair share of lottery investment. I was pleased to hear the Secretary’s positive comments when talking about this. We must acknowledge that some of those who distribute lottery funds have already acknowledged that this work needs to be done. There is a statement of intent by the Lottery Charities Board, in their strategic plan for Wales, that states that grants must be given to help meet the needs of those people who suffer the greatest deprivation in society and to improve quality of life in the community.

Rhaid erbyn hyn edrych ar dargedu ardaloedd penodol; hoffwn weld ystyriaeth yn cael ei rhoi i ganran uwch o grant ar gael mewn rhai ardaloedd lle mae cyllid cyfatebol yn anodd i’w canfod. Mae hyd yn oed 100 y cant o grant ar gael mewn rhai achlysuron. Dylai’r loteri, o bosibl o gronfa’r elusennau, ariannu swyddogion amser llawn i weithio mewn rhai awdurdodau lleol i ddatblygu cynlluniau ar gyfer gwario arian y loteri mewn partneriaeth â chymunedau lleol, grwpiau gwirfoddol a’r awdurdod lleol. Dylai hwn fod yn fuddsoddiad tymor hir. Ni ddylai arwain at greu cynlluniau anghynaliadwy dros nos, ond yn hytrach at gynlluniau sydd yn berthnasol i’r cymunedau hynny ac yn deillio o brofiad ac anghenion y bobl leol. Ni allwn adael i anghydraddoldeb y system bresennol barhau lawer yn hwy. Rhaid i ddosbarthwyr arian y loteri ystyried gwahaniaethu cadarnhaol o blaid gwario arian mewn ardaloedd difreintiedig.

in Welsh We must now look at targeting specific areas; I would like to see consideration being given to a higher percentage of grant being available in some areas where the matching finance is difficult to find. Even 100 per cent grant is available in some cases. The lottery, possibly from the charities’ fund, should finance full-time officials to work in some local authorities to develop plans for spending lottery money in partnership with local communities, voluntary groups and local authorities. This should be a long-term investment. It should not lead to creating unsustainable plans overnight, but rather to schemes that are relevant to those communities and arise from the experience and needs of the local people. We cannot allow the present system’s inequity to continue much longer. The distributors of lottery funds must consider positive discrimination in favour of spending money in disadvantaged areas.

Gwenda Thomas siaradwyd yn Gymraeg t. 49

Gwenda Thomas spoken in Welsh p. 49

Mae rhestr gennyf o ffigurau sydd yn dangos sut y dosbarthwyd arian y loteri yn ystod pum mlynedd cyntaf ei hoes. Mae’n dangos bod Ceredigion wedi derbyn £13 miliwn o’r £26 miliwn a wariwyd ar docynnau. A dderbyniodd Ceredigion ormod o arian?

I have a list of figures that shows how lottery money has been distributed during its first five years. It shows that Ceredigion has received £13 million of the £26 million spent on tickets. Has Ceredigion received too much money?

Elin Jones siaradwyd yn Gymraeg ac yn Saesneg t. 49

Elin Jones spoken in Welsh and English p. 49

Ni allwch ddisgwyl imi ymateb i ffigurau nad wyf wedi eu gweld. Nid wyf yn mynd i ddweud bod Ceredigion wedi derbyn gormod. Cyfeiriais at gynllun mawr Canolfan y Celfyddydau yn Aberystwyth. Croesawaf y gyfran sylweddol o gronfa’r mileniwm a dderbyniodd y cynllun hwn. Fodd bynnag, hoffwn weld gwell cydraddoldeb drwy Gymru, a dyna fu byrdwn fy araith hyd yn hyn.

in Welsh You cannot expect me to respond to figures that I have not seen. I will not say that Ceredigion has received too much. I referred to the major scheme at the Aberystwyth Arts Centre. I welcome the substantial proportion that this scheme received from the millennium fund. However, I would like to see a better equity throughout Wales, and that has been the theme of my speech so far.

Mae anghydraddoldeb o fewn y Deyrnas Unedig, yn ogystal â Chymru. Cyfeiriodd yr Ysgrifennydd at hyn eioes. Bwriad elfen achosion da y loteri yw sicrhau bod arian yn cael ei ailddosbarthu gan yr Adran Diwylliant, y Cyfryngau a Chwaraeon i’r ardaloedd difreintiedig. Mae hyn yn golygu dosbarthu arian gan ddefnyddio fformwla sydd yn ystyried amddifadedd economaidd a chymdeithasol yr ardaloedd tlotaf, sydd yn cynnwys Cymru. Mae dau o ddosbarthwyr arian y loteri yn gwneud hyn eisoes. Cynigir 6.5 y cant o arian Bwrdd Elusennau’r Loteri Genedlaethol a’r Gronfa Cyfleoedd Newydd i Gymru. Rhaid sicrhau bod y cronfeydd eraill yn derbyn yr un ganran. Ar hyn o bryd, nid yw Cyngor Celfyddydau Cymru ond yn derbyn 5 y cant o gronfa celfyddydau’r loteri a Chyngor Chwaraeon Cymru yn derbyn tua 4.5 y cant o’r gronfa chwaraeon. Mae hyn yn llai na chanran Cymru o boblogaeth y Deyrnas Unedig. Dylai’r Ysgrifennydd bwyso ar yr Adran Diwylliant, y Cyfryngau a Chwaraeon i sicrhau bod Cymru’n derbyn y ganran haeddiannol ym mhob achos ac ym mhob maes dosbarthu arian y loteri. Yr oeddwn yn falch o glywed yr Ysgrifennydd yn ymrwymo i wneud hynny.

in Welsh There is inequity in the United Kingdom, as well as in Wales. The Secretary has already referred to this. The aim of the lottery’s charitable element is to ensure that money is redistributed by the Department for Culture, Media and Sport to the disadvantaged areas. This means allocating money using a formula that considers economic and social deprivation in the poorest areas, which include Wales. Two of the lottery distributors already do this. The National Lottery Charities Board and the New Opportunities Fund offer 6.5 per cent of their money to Wales. We must ensure that other funds receive the same percentage. At the moment, the Arts Council of Wales only receives 5 per cent from the lottery arts fund and the Sports Council for Wales receives approximately 4.5 per cent from the sports fund. That is less than the Welsh percentage of the population of the United Kingdom. The Secretary should put pressure on the Department for Culture, Media and Sport to ensure that Wales gets the percentage that is due in all cases and in all areas of lottery distribution. I was pleased to hear the Secretary make a commitment to do so.

Hoffwn glywed barn yr Ysgrifennydd ar newidiadau i’r corff sydd yn rhedeg y loteri, sef Camelot. Daw cytundeb Camelot i redeg y loteri i ben ym Medi 2001, a disgwyliwn glywed pwy a fydd wedi ennill y cytundeb cyn diwedd Mehefin. Cwmni preifat yw Camelot ac mae ceiniog o bob punt a werir ar y loteri yn elw i’w gyfranddalwyr. Mae elw Camelot o’r loteri rhwng £50 miliwn a £70 miliwn y flwyddyn, sydd yn debyg i’r cyfanswm y mae Cymru’n ei dderbyn o’r loteri.

in Welsh I would like to hear the Secretary’s views on changes to the body that runs the lottery, Camelot. Camelot’s contract to run the lottery will come to an end in September 2001, and we expect to hear who will have won the contract before the end of June. Camelot is a private company and a penny of every pound spent on the lottery is profit for its shareholders. Camelot’s annual profit from the lottery is between £50 million and £70 million, which is similar to the sum that Wales receives from the lottery.

Un o addewidion maniffesto’r Blaid Lafur yn 1997 oedd cynnig y cytundeb nesaf i redeg y loteri i gwmni elusennol—un na fyddai’n gwneud elw i gyfranddalwyr. Erbyn hyn, mae Comisiwn y Loteri yn ystyried ceisiadau o gwmnïau preifat yn ogystal â chwmnïau elusennol. Annerbyniol fyddai gweld cwmni preifat yn ennill y cytundeb eto ac yn gosod buddiannau cyfranddalwyr yr un mor flaenllaw â buddiannau cymunedau mwyaf difreintiedig ein gwlad. Atgoffaf yr Ysgrifennydd, a’i blaid, o addewid maniffesto’r Blaid Lafur yn 1997:

in Welsh One of the Labour Party’s manifesto commitments in 1997 was to offer the next contract to run the lottery to a charitable company—one that would not make a profit for shareholders. The Lottery Commission is currently considering applications from private companies as well as from charitable companies. It will be unacceptable if a private company wins the contract again and considers the interests of shareholders as important as the interests of our country’s most disadvantaged communities. I remind the Secretary, and his party, of the Labour Party’s manifesto commitment in 1997:

‘Because the Lottery is a monopoly intended to serve the public interest, it must be administered efficiently and economically. When the current contract runs out, Labour will seek an efficient non-for profit operator to ensure that the maximum funds go to good causes.’

yn Saesneg ‘Am fod y Loteri’n fonopoli y bwriedir iddi wasanaethu’r buddiant cyhoeddus, rhaid ei gweinyddu’n effeithlon ac yn ddarbodus. Pan ddaw’r contract cyfredol i ben, bydd Llafur yn chwilio am weithredwr effeithlon nad yw’n ceisio elw er mwyn sicrhau y bydd y cyllid mwyaf posibl yn mynd at achosion da.’

Gwendid cynyddol amlwg y loteri yw’r angen i gefnogi cynlluniau sydd yn gynaliadwy yn y tymor hir. Ceir enghreifftiau lu o gynlluniau sydd wedi eu hariannu am dair blynedd gan y loteri yn methu â chael hyd i ffynonellau cyllido eraill ar ddiwedd y cyfnod hwnnw. Rhaid iddynt wedyn ddiwygio eu cynlluniau er mwyn denu arian loteri eto. Mae’r broses hon yn ddiffygiol ac mae angen i ddosbarthwyr loteri ailystyried sut i gynllunio gyda’r rhai sydd yn cyflwyno ceisiadau hir-dymor. Mae angen inni ystyried a ddylwn ymestyn y rheol tair blynedd i bum mlynedd er enghraifft, yn enwedig yn rhai o’n hardaloedd mwyaf difreintiedig.

in Welsh An increasingly obvious weakness in the lottery is the need to support schemes that are sustainable in the long term. There are numerous examples of schemes funded for three years by the lottery that have failed to find other funding sources at the end of that period. They must then revise their schemes to attract lottery money again. This process is defective and lottery distributors must reconsider how to plan with those making long-term applications. We must consider whether to extend the three-year rule to five years for example, particularly in some of our most deprived areas.

Hoffwn i’r Pwyllgor Addysg a Hyfforddiant Ôl-16 glustnodi amser i drafod rhai o’r materion pwysig sydd ynghlwm wrth ddyrannu arian loteri yng Nghymru, a chynnal trafodaethau gyda dosbarthwyr arian y loteri. Mae’r Ysgrifennydd Addysg a Hyfforddiant Ôl-16 yn cael trafodaethau o’r math ar hyn o bryd a bydd yn briodol hefyd i’r Pwyllgor ei wneud. Dylai materion i drafod cynnwys yr angen i wasgaru adnoddau yn gyfartal a thargedu ardaloedd sydd wedi derbyn llai na’u haeddiant; sicrhau gwariant loteri ar gynlluniau cynaliadwy tymor hir a rhoi pwysau ar yr Adran Diwylliant, y Cyfryngau a Chwaraeon i sicrhau bod Cymru’n derbyn ei chyfran haeddiannol o’r gacen loteri.

in Welsh I would like the Post-16 Education and Training Committee to earmark time to discuss some of the important matters relating to the allocation of lottery money in Wales, and hold discussions with lottery money distributors. The Secretary for Post-16 Education and Training is having such discussions at present and it would also be appropriate for the Committee to do so. Issues for discussion should include the need to spread resources evenly and target areas that have received less than they deserve; ensuring lottery expenditure on long-term sustainable schemes and putting pressure on the Department for Culture, Media and Sport to ensure that Wales receives its fair share of the lottery cake.

Gwn pa mor fodlon bydd Cadeirydd y Pwyllgor Addysg a Hyfforddiant Ôl-16 i glywed fod angen cynnwys mwy o faterion ar amserlen y Pwyllgor, ond credaf fod materion pwysig yn codi sydd angen trafodaeth fanylach na’r cyfle sydd gennym y prynhawn yma.

in Welsh I know how pleased the Chair of the Post-16 Education and Training Committee will be to hear that more issues need to be included on the Committee’s agenda, but I believe that important matters have been raised that need more detailed discussion than we have afforded them this afternoon.

Jonathan Morgan spoken in English p. 51

Jonathan Morgan siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 51

I propose amendment 2. After the first clause, insert

Cynigiaf welliant 2. Ar ôl y cymal cyntaf, rhodder

Jonathan Morgan (continued) spoken in English p. 51

Jonathan Morgan (parhad) siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 51

I also propose amendment 3. After the first clause, insert

Cynigiaf hefyd welliant 3. Ar ôl y cymal cyntaf, rhodder

Jonathan Morgan (continued) spoken in English p. 51

Jonathan Morgan (parhad) siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 51

I welcome the opportunity to debate the role and future of the National Lottery. Nobody would dispute that the lottery has proved to be a remarkable success within its six-year lifetime. Rarely has a Government act proved so popular among the public, as is evident every week by the millions of pounds worth of ticket sales. In many respects, the sceptics have been proved wrong. They said that the lottery would be a passing fad and would fizzle out within a few years. Doomsayers said that charity fundraising would be decimated.

Croesawaf y cyfle i drafod rôl a dyfodol y Loteri Genedlaethol. Ni fyddai neb yn dadlau nad yw’r loteri wedi profi’n llwyddiant hynod o fewn chwe blynedd ei hoes. Anaml y profodd gweithred gan y Llywodraeth mor boblogaidd ymysg y cyhoedd, fel y gwelir bob wythnos drwy’r gwerth miliynau o bunnoedd o docynnau a werthir. Ar lawer cyfrif, profwy yr amheuwyr yn anghywir. Dywedasant mai chwiw dros dro fyddai’r loteri ac y byddai’n mynd i’r gwellt o fewn ychydig flynyddoedd. Dywedodd y proffwydi gwae y byddai codi arian gan elusennau yn chwilfriw.

Rhodri Glyn Thomas spoken in English p. 52

Rhodri Glyn Thomas siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 52

Do you believe that the fact that so many people buy lottery tickets is a sign of the lottery’s success or a sign of desperation from people who are suffering? This government, like the previous one, decided to cut income tax, so services to these people have been decimated. They are now using lottery funds to make up for the services that should be provided by the state through a system that ensures that those who can contribute do so and that those who need the services receive them.

A gredwch fod y ffaith bod cynifer yn prynu tocynnau loteri’n arwydd o lwyddiant y loteri ynteu’n arwydd o anobaith gan bobl sydd yn dioddef? Penderfynodd y llywodraeth hon, fel yr un flaenorol, dorri treth incwm, felly mae gwasanaethau i’r bobl hyn wedi eu chwalu. Maent bellach yn defnyddio cyllid loteri i wneud iawn am y gwasanaethau y dylai’r wladwriaeth eu darparu drwy system sydd yn sicrhau bod y rhai a all gyfrannu’n gwneud hynny a bod y rhai y mae arnynt angen y gwasanaethau yn eu derbyn.

Jonathan Morgan spoken in English p. 52

Jonathan Morgan siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 52

People do not buy lottery tickets out of desperation. They buy lottery tickets because of the fantasy of one day winning a large sum of money. I am sure that many of us buy lottery tickets. In relation to ticket sales and where the money is spent, the lottery is a success. My colleague, Nick Bourne, will say more about additionality later on.

Nid yw pobl yn prynu tocynnau loteri oherwydd anobaith. Prynant docynnau loteri oherwydd y freuddwyd o ennill swm mawr o arian ryw ddiwrnod. Yr wyf yn sicr bod llawer ohonom yn prynu tocynnau loteri. Mewn perthynas â gwerthiant tocynnau a lle y gwerir yr arian, mae’r loteri’n llwyddiant. Bydd fy nghyd-Aelod, Nick Bourne, yn dweud rhagor am ychwanegedd yn ddiweddarach.

It was a great temptation when the Bill was before the House of Commons under the last Conservative Government to use money from the lottery to put into cash-funded services such as the NHS and education. The process and principle of additionality is important and has been adhered to.

Yr oedd yn demtasiwn mawr pan oedd y Mesur gerbron Tŷ’r Cyffredin o dan y Llywodraeth Geidwadol ddiwethaf i ddefnyddio arian o’r loteri i’w roi i wasanaethau a gyllidir ag arian fel yr NHS ac addysg. Mae proses ac egwyddor ychwanegedd yn bwysig a glynwyd wrtho.

I will talk about the success of the National Lottery. There have been considerable successes in Wales and across the United Kingdom. I am proud that the Conservative Government established the lottery and we should be proud that a Conservative Government helped to make it a success. I would like to highlight many of the opportunities that have been provided, some of which have been outlined by the Secretary earlier. The Government established five good causes: the Arts Council for Wales’s lottery fund; the heritage lottery fund; the sports fund; the Millennium Commission and the charities fund. To the Government’s credit, there have been additions: the New Opportunities Fund and the national endowment for science, technology and arts. In support of what the Labour Government has done by adding to the Conservative Government’s successes, these causes have made a tremendous impact in Wales and across the UK. You only have to look at the Millennium Stadium, the National Botanic Gardens, the proposed Olympic Swimming Pool in Swansea—although I want it to be in Cardiff—and the proposed Millennium Centre. Those visible projects have grabbed the headlines, but equally important is the myriad of small projects that have started with the aid of lottery funds. Those small, unsung projects make an impact in local communities. They often only need £2,000 grant to make a difference and they do make a difference in the shape of a new community centre, the renovation of an historic parish church or an after-school club. The lottery has achieved a great deal on a micro level, and in a short space of time.

Siaradaf am lwyddiant y Loteri Genedlaethol. Bu llwyddiannau sylweddol yng Nghymru a ledled y Deyrnas Unedig. Yr wyf yn falch bod y Llywodraeth Geidwadol wedi sefydlu’r loteri a dylem ymfalchïo bod Llywodraeth Geidwadol wedi helpu i’w gwneud yn llwyddiant. Hoffwn dynnu sylw at lawer o’r cyfleoedd a ddarparwyd, y disgrifiwyd rhai ohonynt gan yr Ysgrifennydd yn gynharach. Sefydlodd y Llywodraeth bum achos da: cronfa loteri Cyngor Celfyddydau Cymru; cronfa dreftadaeth y loteri; y gronfa chwaraeon, Comisiwn y Mileniwm a’r gronfa elusennau. Er clod i’r Llywodraeth, bu ychwanegiadau: y Gronfa Cyfleoedd Newydd a’r gwaddol cenedlaethol ar gyfer gwyddoniaeth, technoleg a’r celfyddydau. Er cefnogi’r hyn a wnaeth y Llywodraeth Lafur drwy ychwanegu at lwyddiannau’r Llywodraeth Geidwadol, mae’r achosion hyn wedi cael effaith aruthrol yng Nghymru a ledled y DU. Nid oes ond rhaid ichi edrych ar Stadiwm y Mileniwm, yr Ardd Fotanegol Genedlaethol, y Pwll Nofio Olympaidd arfaethedig yn Abertawe—er y byddai’n well gennyf pe bai yng Nghaerdydd—a’r Ganolfan Mileniwm arfaethedig. Mae’r prosiectau gweladwy hynny wedi cipio’r penawdau, ond yr un mor bwysig yw’r myrdd o brosiectau bach a ddechreuodd gyda chymorth cyllid loteri. Mae’r prosiectau bach, disylw hynny yn cael effaith mewn cymunedau lleol. Yn aml nid oes arnynt angen grant o ond £2,000 i wneud gwahaniaeth ac maent yn gwneud gwahaniaeth ar ffurf canolfan gymunedol newydd, adnewyddu eglwys blwyf hanesyddol neu glwb ar ôl ysgol. Mae’r loteri wedi cyflawni llawer iawn ar lefel fach, ac o fewn cyfnod byr.

The highest profile project is the Millennium Dome, which brings me to my amendment. It was to be the flagship of the Millennium Commission and a worthy landmark to mark the Millennium. Michael Heseltine gave it a provisional go-ahead in 1996 leaving the final decision, which addresses Elin Jones’s criticism, to the incoming Government in 1997. Heseltine originally intended the dome to be akin to an Expo, or a great exhibition. The intention was to resurrect the spirit of the Festival of Britain in 1951. I accept that we started it and any criticism for that, but the Labour Government turned it into something that was not originally intended. Therein lies the difference. Therefore, if Elin Jones wishes to criticise the exhibitions in the dome, she should address the people on the front bench here and in the House of Commons.

Y prosiect amlycaf yw Dôm y Mileniwm, a ddaw â mi at fy ngwelliant. Yr oedd i fod yn brif orchest Comisiwn y Mileniwm ac yn dirnod teilwng i nodi’r Mileniwm. Rhoddodd Michael Heseltine rwydd hynt amodol iddo yn 1996 gan adael y penderfyniad terfynol, sydd yn ymdrin â beirniadaeth Elin Jones, i’r Llywodraeth a ddaeth i rym yn 1997. Yn wreiddiol yr oedd Heseltine yn bwriadu i’r dôm fod yn debyg i Expo, neu arddangosfa fawr. Y bwriad oedd adfer ysbryd Gŵyl Prydain yn 1951. Derbyniaf mai ni a’i dechreuodd ac unrhyw feirniadaeth am hynny, ond y Llywodraeth Lafur a’i trodd yn rhywbeth gwahanol i’r bwriad gwreiddiol. Yn y fan honno y mae’r gwahaniaeth. Felly, os yw Elin Jones yn dymuno beirniadu’r arddangosfeydd yn y dôm, dylai siarad â’r bobl ar y fainc flaen yma ac yn Nhŷ’r Cyffredin.

Following the election of the Labour Government, the new cabinet decided to give this project the green light. In a fateful decision, it was handed over to Peter Mandelson. Tony Blair’s ‘sultan of spin’ was nominated to turn the dome from a great exhibition into a grand display of New Labour in action. Indeed, we are told that Tony Blair said that he wanted the dome and its content to be

Ar ôl ethol y Llywodraeth Lafur, penderfynodd y cabinet newydd roi rhwydd hynt i’r prosiect hwn. Drwy benderfyniad tyngedfennol, fe’i trosglwyddwyd i Peter Mandelson. Enwebwyd ‘swltan troelli’ Tony Blair i droi’r dôm o fod yn arddangosfa fawr i fod yn sioe fawr o Lafur Newydd ar waith. Yn wir, dywedir wrthym bod Tony Blair wedi dweud ei fod yn dymuno i’r dôm a’i gynnwys fod yn

‘the first paragraph of my next election manifesto.’

‘baragraff cyntaf fy maniffesto etholiad nesaf.’

Following Mandelson’s appointment, the project was dogged by political interference. Stephen Bailey resigned as creative director in 1998 as a result of political interference saying that

Ar ôl penodi Mandelson, dilynwyd y prosiect gan ymyrraeth wleidyddol. Ymddiswyddodd Stephen Bailey o fod yn gyfarwyddwr creadigol yn 1998 o ganlyniad i ymyrraeth wleidyddol gan ddweud bod

‘there is a total mismatch between the creative impulse and the political impulse. The whole way in which it is being run is pure East Germany.’

‘camgymhariad llwyr rhwng yr ysgogiad creadigol a’r ysgogiad gwleidyddol. Mae’r holl ffordd o’i redeg yn union fel Dwyrain yr Almaen.’

That is a damning indictment of the management of the dome before it was even opened. We must consider the extent of political involvement and interference in future projects and the potential damage. We do not want a repeat of the Millennium Dome, which gives us an androgynous figure with no distinguishing features and a Body Zone that can cope as well with queues as Jane Hutt’s health service. It is a mind-numbing combination of the bland and the politically correct. No wonder the public is giving it a wide berth. Mandelson said that it would attract more than 12 million visitors, it turns out that it will attract less than seven million.

Mae hynny’n gyhuddiad damniol o reolaeth y dôm hyd yn oed cyn ei agor. Rhaid inni ystyried graddau’r cysylltiad a’r ymyrraeth wleidyddol mewn prosiectau yn y dyfodol a’r niwed posibl. Ni ddymunwn weld ailadrodd Dôm y Mileniwm, sydd yn rhoi inni ffigwr androgynaidd heb unrhyw nodweddion gwahaniaethol a Chylchfa’r Corff sydd yn gallu ymdopi gystal â rhesi ag y mae gwasanaeth iechyd Jane Hutt. Mae’n gyfuniad syrffedus o ddiflasrwydd a chywirdeb gwleidyddol. Nid oes ryfedd bod y cyhoedd yn cadw’n ddigon pell oddi wrtho. Dywedodd Mandelson y byddai’n denu mwy na 12 miliwn o ymwelwyr. Ceir yn y diwedd y bydd yn denu llai na saith miliwn.

Delyth Evans spoken in English p. 54

Delyth Evans siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 54

You have spent the last five minutes talking about a project that is not in Wales and has little bearing on anything going on in Wales. Will you focus on issues affecting the people of Wales?

Treuliasoch y pum munud ddiwethaf yn sôn am brosiect nad yw yng Nghymru ac sydd ag ond ychydig o gysylltiad â dim sydd yn mynd ymlaen yng Nghymru. A wnewch ganolbwyntio ar faterion sydd yn effeithio ar bobl Cymru?

Jonathan Morgan spoken in English p. 54

Jonathan Morgan siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 54

I will focus on the way in which money has been thrown at the dome. The extra £30 million comes from the Millennium Commission, which will ultimately have a damaging impact on the New Opportunities Fund, which the Government believes will achieve much in Wales. The damage will be done because if the £30 million that the Government provided towards the dome, as well as the £100 million above the cap that the Conservative Government put on this project, is not repaid, the New Opportunities Fund will lose out on £130 million. I am not convinced that the dome will be in a position to repay the £130 million. The damage to the New Opportunities Fund will have ramifications in Wales.

Canolbwyntiaf ar y modd y taflwyd arian at y dôm. Daw’r £30 miliwn ychwanegol o Gomisiwn y Mileniwm, a gaiff effaith andwydol yn y pen draw ar y Gronfa Cyfleoedd Newydd, y mae’r Llywodraeth yn credu y bydd yn cyflawni llawer yng Nghymru. Gwneir y difrod oherwydd os nad ad-delir y £30 miliwn a ddarparodd y Llywodraeth i’r dôm, yn ogystal â’r £100 miliwn uwchben y terfyn a osododd y Llywodraeth Geidwadol ar y prosiect hwn, bydd y Gronfa Cyfleoedd Newydd yn colli £130 miliwn. Nid wyf wedi fy argyhoeddi y bydd y dôm mewn sefyllfa i ad-dalu’r £130 miliwn. Caiff y difrod i’r Gronfa Cyfleoedd Newydd ganlyniadau yng Nghymru.

It is clear that this dome is New Labour’s dome and New Labour’s failure. If the Millennium Commission cannot repay the £130 million, and I do not think that it will be in a position to do so, it will deprive future projects of money. After-school clubs will not be established and work will not be undertaken because lottery money has to support a white elephant in London. I am disappointed that the Welsh Labour Government will not support my amendment, given John Prescott’s comment in July 1997:

Mae’n amlwg mai dôm Llafur Newydd yw’r dôm hwn a methiant Llafur Newydd. Os na all Comisiwn y Mileniwm ad-dalu’r £130 miliwn, ac ni chredaf y bydd mewn sefyllfa i wneud hynny, bydd yn mynd ag arian oddi ar brosiectau’r dyfodol. Ni sefydlir clybiau ar ôl ysgol ac nid ymgymerir â gwaith am fod rhaid i arian loteri gynnal eliffant gwyn yn Llundain. Yr wyf yn siomedig na wnaiff Llywodraeth Lafur Cymru gefnogi fy ngwelliant, o ystyried sylw John Prescott yng Ngorffennaf 1997:

‘if we can’t make this work, we’re not much of a Government’.

‘os na allwn beri i hwn weithio, nid ydym fawr o Lywodraeth’.

I will allow Members to draw their own conclusions.

Gadawaf i’r Aelodau ddod i’w casgliadau eu hunain.

We support Elin Jones’s amendments and the notion that the lottery should help to tackle social exclusion and that Wales should maximise the amount that it receives from the lottery. We also support Christine Humphreys amendment, which also stresses the importance of additionality and the equitable distribution of lottery resources across the nation.

Cefnogwn welliannau Elin Jones a’r syniad y dylai’r loteri helpu i fynd i’r afael ag allgáu cymdeithasol ac y dylai Cymru dderbyn y swm mwyaf posibl o’r loteri. Yr ydym hefyd yn cefnogi gwelliant Christine Humphreys, sydd hefyd yn pwysleisio pwysigrwydd ychwanegedd a dosbarthu adnoddau loteri yn deg ar draws y wlad.

I will reiterate our support for the motion. The lottery has been a success despite minor problems and a major one standing in London. It has provided Wales with a magnificent centrepiece for the rugby world cup and for future matches and it has provided landmark projects. Equally important, it has given every club and association in Wales an opportunity to make a difference to their locality and community. We need to consolidate and build on that achievement in the future. We cannot ignore the scandalous mishandling of the dome and the money that it has taken away from projects in Wales and throughout the UK. Although, the Welsh Conservatives support the lottery and its good work, we believe that this Assembly should recognise the tremendous damage done by this Government supported by the Labour Government in Wales.

Ailddatganaf ein cefnogaeth i’r cynnig. Bu’r loteri’n llwyddiant er gwaethaf mân broblemau ac un fawr sydd yn sefyll yn Llundain. Mae wedi darparu canolbwynt gwych i Gymru ar gyfer cwpan rygbi’r byd ac ar gyfer gemau yn y dyfodol ac wedi darparu prosiectau tirnod. A’r un mor bwysig, mae wedi rhoi cyfle i bob clwb a chymdeithas yng Nghymru wneud gwahaniaeth yn ei ardal a’i gymuned. Mae angen inni gadarnhau ac adeiladu ar y cyflawniad hwnnw yn y dyfodol. Ni allwn anwybyddu’r camdrafod cywilyddus o’r dôm a’r arian a gymerwyd oddi wrth brosiectau yng Nghymru a ledled y DU. Er bod y Ceidwadwyr Cymreig yn cefnogi’r loteri a’i gwaith da, credwn y dylai’r Cynulliad hwn gydnabod y niwed aruthrol a wnaethpwyd gan y Llywodraeth hon gyda chefnogaeth y Llywodraeth Lafur yng Nghymru.

Christine Humphreys spoken in English p. 56

Christine Humphreys siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 56

I propose amendment 6. Insert at the end of the motion

Cynigiaf welliant 6. Ar ddiwedd y cynnig rhodder

Christine Humphreys (continued) spoken in English p. 56

Christine Humphreys (parhad) siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 56

It is obvious that the lottery’s lure is virtually universal. The odds are terrible at 14 million to one, yet some of us, excluding the Secretary for Post-16 Education and Training of course, still religiously trail to the corner shop every Wednesday and Saturday in the hope that those six numbers will change our lives. I am as guilty as everybody else because every Saturday, I use the same six numbers, week in, week out, knowing that I could be on that plane to the Caribbean by Sunday morning if Lady Luck were to smile favourably on me.

Mae’n amlwg bod swyn y loteri yn gyffredinol bron. Mae’r ods o 14 miliwn i un yn ofnadwy, ac eto mae rhai ohonom, heb gynnwys yr Ysgrifennydd Addysg a Hyfforddiant Ôl-16 wrth gwrs, yn dal i droedio’n ddeddfol i siop y gornel bob dydd Mercher a dydd Sadwrn yn y gobaith y bydd y chwe rhif hynny’n newid ein bywydau. Yr wyf yr un mor euog â phawb oherwydd bob dydd Sadwrn defnyddiaf yr un chwe rhif, wythnos ar ôl wythnos, gan wybod y gallwn fod ar yr awyren honno i’r Caribî erbyn bore Sul pe bai Meistres Ffawd yn gwenu’n ffafriol arnaf.

I am not the only dreamer. Every week, millions of people across Wales spend millions of pounds on the National Lottery. We weekly gamblers know that the odds are long, but we can take comfort from the fact that the majority of money generated by the lottery will be invested in good causes across the UK, causes from which we hope the most needy and vulnerable will benefit.

Nid myfi yw’r unig freuddwydiwr. Bob wythnos, mae miliynau o bobl ledled Cymru’n gwario miliynau o bunnoedd ar y Loteri Genedlaethol. Yr ydym ni hapchwaraewyr wythnosol yn gwybod bod yr ods yn hir, ond gallwn ymgysuro yn y ffaith y bydd y rhan fwyaf o’r arian a gynhyrchir gan y loteri’n cael ei fuddsoddi mewn achosion da ledled y DU, achosion y gobeithiwn y bydd y rhai mwyaf anghenus a’r rhai mwyaf agored i niwed yn elwa ohonynt.

That money can and does make a difference. In Wales, we spend hundreds of millions of pounds on the lottery every year. It is fair that Wales should get a substantial proportion of that cash back in the form of lottery grants to help our most deprived communities and most worthy causes. However, Gareth Jones and Elin Jones have already indicated the irony of those communities that suffer from high levels of poverty and unemployment spending the most on lottery tickets. Since the lottery’s inception, around £33.236 million has been spent in the Rhondda, £32.615 million in Blaenau Gwent and £33.270 million in Merthyr Tydfil and Rhymney. It is obvious that the power of the dream carries even more weight in communities such as these.

Mae modd i’r arian hwnnw wneud gwahaniaeth ac mae’n gwneud hynny. Yng Nghymru, gwariwn gannoedd o filiynau o bunnoedd ar y loteri bob blwyddyn. Mae’n deg y dylai Cymru gael cyfran sylweddol o’r arian hwnnw’n ôl ar ffurf grantiau loteri i helpu ein cymunedau mwyaf difreintiedig a’n hachosion teilyngaf. Fodd bynnag, mae Gareth Jones ac Elin Jones eisoes wedi nodi’r eironi mai’r cymunedau hynny sydd yn dioddef gan lefelau uchel o dlodi a diweithdra sydd yn gwario’r mwyaf ar docynnau loteri. Ers dechrau’r loteri, gwariwyd tua £33.236 miliwn yn y Rhondda, £32.615 miliwn ym Mlaenau Gwent a £33.270 miliwn ym Merthyr Tudful a Rhymni. Mae’n amlwg bod pŵer y freuddwyd yn fwy dylanwadol byth mewn cymunedau fel y rhain.

The cumulative total for lottery spending in Wales until November 1999 was £1.3 billion. The return in terms of the amount of money the National Lottery distributors then give to Wales is £1 for every £3.44 spent on the lottery in tickets. Ironically, in some of the poorest communities the return is disproportionately low in relation to the needs of those communities. In Aberavon, for example, the return is only £1 for every £9.64 spent on the lottery. A balance must be redressed. My amendment calls for the equal distribution of lottery funds throughout Wales to ensure that the communities that will benefit most from lottery funding receive their fair share.

Cyfanswm cronnol y gwariant ar y loteri yng Nghymru hyd Dachwedd 1999 oedd £1.3 biliwn. Yr enillion o ran swm yr arian y mae dosbarthwyr y Loteri Genedlaethol yn ei roi wedyn i Gymru yw £1 am bob £3.44 a werir ar y loteri ar ffurf tocynnau. Yn eironig, yn rhai o’r cymunedau tlotaf mae’r enillion yn anghymesur o isel o’u cymharu ag anghenion y cymunedau hynny. Yn Aberafan, er enghraifft, nid yw’r enillion ond yn £1 am bob £9.64 a werir ar y loteri. Rhaid unioni’r fantol. Mae fy ngwelliant yn galw am ddosbarthu cyfartal o gyllid loteri ledled Cymru er mwyn sicrhau y bydd y cymunedau a fydd yn elwa fwyaf o gyllid loteri yn derbyn eu cyfran deg.

I believe that lottery funding should be additional to and not instead of Government funding. Under no circumstances should lottery moneys be used to underpin missing Government expenditure. I sought to make that clear in my amendment.

Credaf y dylai cyllid loteri fod yn ychwanegol at gyllid Llywodraeth ac na ddylai gymryd ei le. Ni ddylid defnyddio arian loteri o dan unrhyw amgylchiadau i gynnal gwariant Llywodraeth sydd ar goll. Ceisiais wneud hynny’n eglur yn fy ngwelliant.

The National Lottery Charities Board has many objectives that revolve around community involvement. They complement the Communities First initiative in Betterwales.com and the team Wales approach that the document advocates. The Liberal Democrats believe strongly in the importance of the community and the role that it has to play and we welcome this approach.

Mae gan Fwrdd Elusennau’r Loteri Genedlaethol lawer o amcanion sydd yn ymwneud â chyfraniad y gymuned. Maent yn cydategu’r fenter Cymunedau’n Gyntaf yn Gwellcymru.com a’r dull tîm Cymru o weithredu a gefnogir gan y ddogfen. Mae’r Democratiaid Rhyddfrydol yn credu’n gryf ym mhwysigrwydd y gymuned a’r rôl y mae’n rhaid iddi ei chwarae a chroesawn y dull hwn o weithredu.

The Heritage Lottery Fund is charged with the protection of the relics of our historical past and has had considerable success around coastal and rural Wales. However, the Liberal Democrats share the HLF’s concerns that there is insufficient take-up of funds in coalfields and other industrialised areas in Wales, to which Tom referred. This is where a considerable section of Wales’s industrial heritage is held and it is important to preserve it before it suffers irreversible neglect. Perhaps there is a need for an additional promotion of the Heritage Lottery Fund among local authorities and supporting groups. Perhaps there should be additional help during the application submission process, as Janet Ryder said. Perhaps local authorities in these areas need to be encouraged to do more to attract heritage lottery funding. It should be noted that past failures to provide sufficient revenue grants to keep capital projects open or running at optimum levels may be the reason behind the low take-up of heritage lottery funding now.

Mae Cronfa Dreftadaeth y Loteri wedi ei hymddiried â’r gwaith o ddiogelu olion ein gorffennol hanesyddol a chafodd gryn lwyddiant o gwmpas arfordir a chefn gwlad Cymru. Fodd bynnag, mae’r Democratiaid Rhyddfrydol yn rhannu pryderon Cronfa Dreftadaeth y Loteri nad oes digon o dderbyniad o gyllid mewn meysydd glo ac ardaloedd diwydiannol eraill yng Nghymru, y cyfeiriodd Tom atynt. Dyma’r mannau lle y delir cyfran sylweddol o dreftadaeth ddiwydiannol Cymru ac mae’n bwysig ei chadw cyn iddi ddioddef esgeulustod di-droi’n-ôl. Efallai fod angen hyrwyddo ychwanegol ar Gronfa Dreftadaeth y Loteri ymysg awdurdodau lleol a grwpiau cefnogol. Efallai y dylid rhoi cymorth ychwanegol yn ystod y broses o gyflwyno cais, fel y dywedodd Janet Ryder. Efallai bod angen annog awdurdodau lleol yn yr ardaloedd hyn i wneud mwy i ddenu cyllid loteri treftadaeth. Dylid nodi mai methiant yn y gorffennol i ddarparu digon o grantiau refeniw i gadw prosiectau cyfalaf ar agor neu’n rhedeg ar y lefelau uchaf yw’r rheswm o bosibl y tu ôl i’r derbyniad isel o gyllid loteri treftadaeth yn awr.

The strategy does not appear to indicate whether the heritage lottery funding applies to contemporary buildings. It does say that ecclesiastical buildings dominate applications. It is not only ecclesiastical buildings that reflect the heritage of Wales although, coming from north Wales, I should not really say that. In the south Wales valleys, for instance, many commercial premises represent Wales’s historic development. The Italian cafés that spread throughout south Wales are a case in point. There are many notable examples of art deco cafés, which should be preserved. If these commercial buildings are not already covered and promoted under heritage lottery funding, they should be included.

Nid ymddengys fod y strategaeth yn nodi a yw cyllid treftadaeth loteri’n berthnasol i adeiladau cyfoes. Dywed mai ar gyfer adeiladau eglwysig y mae’r rhan fwyaf o’r ceisiadau. Nid adeiladau eglwysig yn unig sydd yn adlewyrchu treftadaeth Cymru er na ddylwn ddweud hynny mewn gwirionedd, a minnau’n hanu o ogledd Cymru. Yng nghymoedd de Cymru, er enghraifft, mae llawer o adeiladau masnachol yn adlewyrchu datblygiad hanesyddol Cymru. Mae’r caffis Eidalaidd a ymledodd ledled de Cymru’n enghraifft o hynny. Mae llawer o enghreifftiau nodedig o gaffis art deco, y dylid eu cadw. Os nad yw’r adeiladau masnachol hyn yn cael eu cynnwys a’u hyrwyddo eisoes o dan gyllid loteri treftadaeth, dylid eu cynnwys.

The Heritage Lottery Fund is one of the vital underpinning funding mechanisms to preserve Welsh national heritage and develop heritage skills and tourism within Wales. Full use should be made of these. The lottery provides an important source of income to many bodies across Wales, but we must ensure that those funds are distributed in a fair and appropriate manner. The Government must live up to its obligations and provide Wales with the Government money to which it is entitled. Lottery funding is not a substitute; it is an added bonus. In light of all this, I ask you to support my amendments.

Cronfa Dreftadaeth y Loteri yw un o’r dulliau ariannu sylfaenol holl bwysig i gadw treftadaeth genedlaethol Cymru a datblygu medrau treftadaeth a thwristiaeth oddi mewn i Gymru. Dylid gwneud defnydd llawn o’r rhain. Mae’r loteri’n darparu ffynhonnell bwysig o incwm i lawer o gyrff ledled Cymru, ond rhaid inni sicrhau y caiff y cyllid hwnnw ei ddosbarthu’n deg ac yn briodol. Rhaid i’r Llywodraeth gyflawni ei rhwymedigaethau a rhoi i Gymru’r arian Llywodraeth y mae ganddi hawl iddo. Nid yw cyllid loteri yn rhywbeth sydd i gymryd ei le; mae’n fonws ychwanegol. Yng ngoleuni hyn oll, gofynnaf ichi gefnogi fy ngwelliannau.

Cynog Dafis siaradwyd yn Gymraeg ac yn Saesneg t. 59

Cynog Dafis spoken in Welsh and English p. 59

Cyfaddeddaf nad wyf o blaid y loteri er gwaethaf popeth sydd wedi cael ei ddweud y prynhawn yma. Pan oeddwn yn Aelod Seneddol, pleidleisiais yn erbyn rhoi ail-ddarlleniad i’r Mesur a greodd y loteri. Ni allwn gymeradwyo penderfyniad y Llywodraeth Dorïaidd i ddefnyddio gamblo yn hytrach na threthiant fel modd o godi arian at amcanion cyhoeddus. Yr unig ddadl a welais o blaid hynny oedd ei fod yn gwladoli rhan o’r diwydiant gamblo, os gwladoli yw’r term cywir, gan mai cwmni preifat sydd yn rhedeg y loteri.

in Welsh I admit that I am not in favour of the lottery despite everything that has been said this afternoon. When I was a Member of Parliament, I voted against the second reading for the Bill that created the lottery. I could not approve the Conservative Government’s decision to use gambling rather than taxation as a way of raising money for public objectives. The only argument in its favour was that it nationalised part of the gambling industry, if nationalised is the correct term, because a private company runs the lottery.

Mae modd creu system drethiant sydd yn ail-ddosbarthu cyfoeth i helpu’r difreintiedig a chreu cymdeithas fwy cyfartal. Mae gennym system ar hyn o bryd sydd yn cyflawni hynny i ryw raddau. Nid yw’n berffaith. Pan sefydlwyd y loteri, yr oedd hi’n hawdd gweld y byddai’n gweithio o chwith. Y difreintiedig a’r tlawd sydd yn cyfrannu fwyaf tuag ato a hwythau sydd yn cael eu denu gan yr hype ar nos Sadwrn gan obeithio am waredigaeth o’u tlodi. Ni wn beth sydd yn denu Christine Humphreys ac fe ddylai hi wybod nad yw’r bookie byth yn colli.

in Welsh A system of taxation can be created that redistributes wealth to help the underprivileged and create a more equal society. We have a system at the moment that achieves that to some extent. It is not perfect. When the lottery was established, it was easy to envisage that it would work the wrong way. The underprivileged and the poor contribute most towards it and it is they who are attracted by the Saturday night hype hoping for an escape from their poverty. I do not know what attracts Christine Humphreys and she should know that the bookie never loses.

Y bobl sydd yn rhoi fwyaf i’r loteri sydd yn derbyn leiaf oddi wrtho. Y grymus a’r galluog sydd yn gwybod yn well o lawer sut i odro’r cronfeydd er eu budd eu hunain ac yn ystod y blynyddoedd cynnar ddod o hyd i arian cyfatebol i’r pwrpas hwnnw. Y sectorau cymdeithasol a’r ardaloedd daearyddol mwyaf breintiedig a enillodd ar y dechrau. Dygodd y Tŷ Opera Brenhinol, y Tate Bankside, Neuadd Albert, a phrynu papurau Churchill 21 y cant o’r holl arian achosion da yn y flwyddyn gyntaf. Mae’r dôm yn barhad o’r gwario grotèsg hwnnw. Gwerthfawrogaf welliant 3 Jonathan Morgan i’r perwyl hwnnw er nad wyf yn cyd-weld â llawer o ddim byd arall a ddywedodd y prynhawn yma.

in Welsh The people who contribute most to the lottery receive the least from it. The powerful and the able know far better how to milk these funds for their own benefit. In the early years they found match funding for that purpose. The most privileged social sectors and geographical areas won in the beginning. The Royal Opera House, the Tate Bankside, the Albert Hall and the Churchill papers took 21 per cent of all the money for good causes in the first year. The dome is a continuation of this grotesque expenditure. I appreciate Jonathan Morgan’s amendment 3 to that end although I do not agree with much of anything else that he said this afternoon.

Fodd bynnag, yr wyf yn falch o’r newid pwyslais a chyfeiriad sydd wedi digwydd. Nid yw’n bosibl gwneud gormod i sicrhau bod y cymunedau sydd â’r angen mwyaf ac sydd yn cyfrannu fwyaf tuag at y loteri o’r herwydd yn ennill fwyaf oddi wrtho.

in Welsh However, I am pleased about the change of direction and emphasis that has happened. It is not possible to do too much to ensure that the most needy communities who contribute the most to the lottery can benefit most from it.

Soniodd Elin Jones am ddatganiad bwriad Bwrdd Elusennau y Loteri Genedlaethol ac mae’n werth ei ddyfynnu. Eu bwriad yw rhoi grantiau

in Welsh Elin Jones mentioned the National Lottery Charities Board’s statement of intent and it is worth quoting. It is its intention to give grants

‘i helpu i gwrdd ag anghenion y bobl hynny sydd dan yr anfantais fwyaf mewn cymdeithas a gwella ansawdd bywyd yn y gymuned’.

in Welsh ‘to meet the needs of those at greatest disadvantage in society and to improve the quality of life in the community’.

Mae’r datganiad hwnnw i’w groesawu a chanmolaf y cynllun strategol yn ei gyfanrwydd. Nid y gronfa elusennau yn unig a ddylai wneud hynny. Croesawaf yr awgrym i gefnogi prif amcanion y Cynulliad fel y’i gwelir yn ‘Gwellcymru.com’. Nid wyf am or-ganmol y ddogfen yn ei chyfanrwydd. Fodd bynnag, yr ydym wedi cymeradwyo’r gwerthoedd agoriadol. Mae angen i’r holl gronfeydd fynd ati gyda phartneriaid eraill i sicrhau bod cymunedau a grwpiau llai breintiedig yn cael eu cymell a’u helpu i ddyfeisio prosiectau a gwneud ceisiadau. Mae angen y cymorth rhagweithredol hwnnw ar hyd yr amser i alluogi pobl sydd o dan anfantais i gynnig prosiectau.

in Welsh This statement is to be welcomed and I praise the whole strategic plan. It is not only the charity funds that should do that. I welcome the proposal to support the major goals of the Assembly as seen in ‘Betterwales.com’. I do not want to overpraise the document in its entirety. However, we have commended the opening values. All of these funds must join forces with other partners to ensure that the less privileged communities and groups are encouraged and aided to create projects and make applications. Proactive, permanent participation is needed to enable disadvantaged people to propose projects.

Croesawaf yr argymhellion gwerthfawr sydd yn yr adroddiad Celfyddydau ac Adfywiad a ddaeth o gynhadledd a gynhaliwyd yn Abertawe ar ddiwylliant a’r cymunedau dan nawdd Rowntree. Mae nifer o argymhellion ymarferol, gwerthfawr i’w cael yn yr adroddiad hwnnw ar sut i ddefnyddio arian i bwrpas y celfyddydau mewn perthynas ag adfywio cymunedau dan anfantais.

in Welsh I welcome the valuable recommendations in the Arts and Regeneration report that emerged from a conference held in Swansea on culture and the communities under the sponsorship of Rowntree. Many valuable, practical recommendations are contained in that report on how to use money for the arts in relation to regenerating disadvantaged communities.

Mae pob cyfiawnhad dros ddynesiad strategol a chysylltu prosiectau a blaenoriaethau prif ffrwd cyhoeddus. Fodd bynnag, nid oes unrhyw gyfiawnhad dros ddefnyddio arian loteri yn hytrach na gwariant cyhoeddus. Mae angen gwariant cyhoeddus ychwanegol er mwyn sicrhau bod grwpiau difreintiedig yn gallu manteisio ar y gwariant hwnnw. Oni bai bod gwariant cyhoeddus digonol, prif ffrwd, mae’r ffaith fod arian loteri yn gyfyngedig i gyfnod o dair blynedd yn creu problemau difrifol. Mae perygl mai grwpiau gwell eu byd a fydd yn elwa o’r Gronfa Cyfleodd Newydd am mai hwy fydd yn gallu cadw prosiectau i fynd ar ôl cael yr arian loteri cychwynnol. Mae sylwadau ar y Gronfa Cyfleoedd Newydd yn datgan bod 90 y cant o’r grantiau cylch cyntaf ar gyfer cyfleusterau gofal plant ar ôl oriau ysgol, ar gyfer cyflogau. Eto, mae disgwyl i’r cynlluniau hynny fod yn hunangynhaliol ar ôl blwyddyn—a dyfynnaf—

in Welsh There is every justification for a strategic approach and linking projects with mainstream public priorities. However, there is no justification for using lottery money as a substitute for public expenditure. Extra public expenditure is needed to ensure that disadvantaged groups are able to benefit from that expenditure. Without sufficient, mainstream public expenditure, the fact that lottery money has a three-year limited cycle creates serious problems. There is a danger that other better off groups will benefit from the New Opportunities Fund because they are able to keep projects going after receiving the initial lottery funding. Comments on the New Opportunities Fund state that 90 per cent of the first round grants for after school childcare facilities is for salaries. Again, those schemes are expected to be self-supporting after a year—and I quote—

‘through a combination of Government and parental contributions’.

yn Saesneg ‘drwy gyfuniad o gyfraniadau Llywodraeth a chyfraniadau rhieni’.

Felly, cyfraniadau gan rieni sydd i gadw’r prosiect i fynd ar ôl y flwyddyn gyntaf. Nid oes eisiau dweud mai dim ond ardaloedd lle y gall rhieni gyfrannu a fydd yn elwa ar y cynlluniau o dan y Gronfa Cyfleoedd Newydd oni bai fod cyllid cyhoeddus arall ar gael iddynt.

in Welsh Therefore, parental contributions are to keep the projects going after the first year. It does not need to be said that only those areas where parents can contribute will benefit from such schemes under the New Opportunities Fund unless other public funding is available to them.

Yn ystod ymchwiliad y Pwyllgor Addysg Ôl-16 i’r celfyddydau a diwylliant, daethom ar draws enghreifftiau droeon o brosiectau a oedd yn anghynaliadwy ar ôl i’r trallwysiad dechreuol o arian ddod i ben. Mae angen llawer mwy o ddisgyblaeth—dywedodd Tom Middlehurst hyn eisoes—wrth ddyfarnu symiau mawr i brosiectau mawreddog sydd yn gallu mynd i drafferthion wedyn. Mae sawl enghraifft o hynny.

in Welsh During the Post-16 Education and Training Committee’s review of arts and culture, we came across examples again and again of projects that could not be sustained once the initial tranfusion of money ended. We need much more discipline—Tom Middlehurst already said this—when awarding large sums of money to prestigious projects that can get into difficulties later. There are several examples of that.

Mae angen cyllid cyhoeddus digonol, parhaol i warchod gwasanaethau sylfaenol y celfyddydau. Mae’n anfoddhaol bod pob math o brosiectau newydd yn cael eu creu oherwydd arian y loteri, ond bod gwasanaethau sydd wedi’u sefydlu ers blynyddoedd ac yn parhau’n werthfawr yn cael trafferth i gadw i fynd. Mae anghydbwysedd rhwng y prosiectau newydd ychwanegol a’r anghenion sylfaenol sydd yn cael eu hamddifadu o arian.

in Welsh Sufficient and continual public funding is needed to safeguard basic arts services. It is unsatisfactory that all kinds of new projects are created because of the lottery money, but services that have been in place for years and continue to be valuable have trouble keeping going. There is an imbalance between the new, additional projects and the basic needs that are being starved of money.

Mae’n werth nodi bod y budd sydd yn dod o wario symiau cymharol fach ar brosiectau celfyddydol mewn ardaloedd anfanteisiedig yn gallu bod yn sylweddol. Cefais y fraint yn ddiweddar o ymweld â’r Rhondda yng nghwmni’r ymgynghorydd i’r Pwyllgor Addysg a Hyfforddiant Ôl-16 ar bolisi diwylliant a’r celfyddydau. Ymwelasom â chynllun Penrhys, a phrosiect o’r enw Valleys Kids, sydd yn enghraifft berffaith o symiau cymharol fach o arian yn cael effaith fendithiol ar ansawdd bywyd pobl ifanc ymyleiddiedig mewn ardaloedd felly. Mae eisiau cymell y sawl sydd yn darparu cyllid o’r cronfeydd hyn, gan gynnwys y rhai yn y celfyddydau, i feddwl mwy yn y cyfeiriad hwnnw er mwyn inni gael y fendith fwyaf posibl o’r arian.

in Welsh It is worth noting that the benefit that comes from spending relatively small sums on arts projects in disadvantaged areas can be considerable. I had the privilege recently of visiting the Rhondda in the company of the adviser to the Post-16 Education and Training Committee on arts and culture policy. We visited the Penrhys scheme, and a project entitled Valleys Kids, which is a perfect example of relatively small sums of money having a beneficial effect on the quality of life of young marginalised people in such areas. We need to encourage those who provide money from these funds, including those in the arts, to think more and more in that direction so that we can have the greatest possible benefit from the money.

Mae eisiau i benderfyniadau yng Nghymru adlewyrchu ein gwerthoedd. Mae lle ambell waith i wario arian ar adfer plastai ac adeiladau crand, a hyd yn oed, ond nid yn rhy aml, i wneud gwelliannau i gastell, os bydd hynny o les economaidd ac yn rhoi pleser i’r werin bobl. Fodd bynnag, mae angen hefyd i dreftadaeth y werin bobl gael ei gwerthfawrogi a’i harddangos â balchder. Dylai bwrdd Cronfa Dreftadaeth y Loteri fynd ati i ddangos mai ymdrech ac anturiaeth y werin bobl sydd yn destun balchder i ni’r Cymry, nid gwŷr bonheddig yn eu tai mawr.

in Welsh Decisions in Wales need to reflect our values. There is a place sometimes to spend money on restoring mansions and grand buildings and, even, though not too often, to make improvements to a castle, if it would be of economic benefit and give pleasure to ordinary people. However, the heritage of ordinary people also needs to be appreciated and exhibited with pride. The board of the Heritage Lottery Fund should undertake to show that it is the endeavours and adventures of ordinary people that are a matter of pride for us Welsh people, not gentry in their mansions.

Yr wyf yn falch o weld bod bwrdd Cronfa Dreftadaeth y Loteri yn sôn yn awr am gynyddu pwyslais ar yr hyn y mae yn ei alw yn

in Welsh I am also pleased to see that the Heritage Lottery Fund board is now talking about increasing the emphasis on what it calls

‘non-tangible elements of the heritage of Wales’.

yn Saesneg ‘elfennau anniriaethol o dreftadaeth Cymru’.

Mae hynny’n cynnwys yr iaith Gymraeg fel elfen allweddol o’n treftadaeth a’n diwylliant. Yr wyf yn hynod o falch o weld hynny ac edrychaf ymlaen at weld ffrwyth y symudiad hwnnw.

in Welsh That includes the Welsh language as a key element of our heritage and culture. I am very pleased to see that and look forward to seeing the fruits of that move.

Mewn perthynas â’r gronfa hon, mae’n destun pryder fod Cymru’n elwa rhy ychydig o’r gronfa dreftadaeth. Dim ond 4.4 y cant o’r arian sydd yn dod i Gymru, o gymharu â 12 y cant sydd yn mynd i’r Alban. Gallech feddwl bod gan yr Alban fwy o dreftadaeth nag sydd gennym ni yng Nghymru. Y rheswm, efallai, yw’r methiant i dynnu o’r gyfran o’r gronfa ar gyfer prosiectau dros £1 miliwn. Nid ydym wedi llwyddo i wneud hynny yng Nghymru. Mae’r Pwll Mawr ym Mlaenafon yn eithriad, gan fod £5 miliwn wedi mynd yno. Mae’n rhaid inni wella ar hyn. Yn ddelfrydol, dylai Cymru fod yn gallu cael ei rhan a defnyddio’r cyllid ar gyfer prosiectau o’r maint sydd yn ein siwtio ni. Ni ddylem gael ein clymu gan y ffaith fod pot o arian ar gyfer prosiectau dros £1 miliwn yn unig.

in Welsh In relation to this fund, it is a matter of concern that Wales does not benefit sufficiently from the heritage fund. Only 4.4 per cent of the money comes to Wales, compared with the 12 per cent that goes to Scotland. You would think that Scotland has more heritage than we do in Wales. The reason, perhaps, is the failure to draw from the share of the fund for projects over £1 million. We have not succeded in doing that in Wales. Big Pit in Blaenavon is an exception, as £5 million has gone there. We must improve on this. Ideally, Wales should receive its share and use the funding for projects of a size that suits us. We should not be tied by the fact that there is a pot of money for projects over £1 million only.

Dechreuais drwy ddweud nad wyf yn frwd dros y loteri. Nid wyf erioed wedi bod mor ddwl â phrynu tocyn. Fodd bynnag, mae’r loteri gennym ac ni waeth inni wneud y gorau ohoni, i adlewyrchu ein gwerthoedd a’n blaenoriaethau i greu cymdeithas sydd yn fwy cyfartal, nid yn llai cyfartal, ac i gryfhau ein strategaethau cenedlaethol.

in Welsh I began by saying that I am not keen on the lottery. I have never been foolish enough to buy a ticket. However, we have the lottery and we might as well make the best of it, to reflect our values and priorities of creating a society that is more equitable, not less, and to strengthen our national strategies.

Nick Bourne spoken in English p. 63

Nick Bourne siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 63

Listening to Plaid Cymru Members, I began to wonder whether they were in favour of the National Lottery or not. I sense a dichotomy in their views. They sounded a little like Ebenezer Scrooge or Victor Meldrew. They like the good things that are done with lottery money but they do not like people betting. Betting existed before the National Lottery. There is nothing new about it. In fact, it was deregulated by a Labour Government. I am not being critical, just pointing out that betting existed before the lottery. I seem to recall such things as the football pools, premium bonds and so on. There is nothing new in this.

Wrth wrando ar Aelodau Plaid Cymru, dechreuais feddwl tybed a oeddent o blaid y Loteri Genedlaethol ai peidio. Synhwyraf ddeuoliaeth yn eu barn. Yr oeddent yn swnio braidd fel Ebenezer Scrooge neu Victor Meldrew. Hoffant y pethau da a wneir ag arian loteri ond nid ydynt yn hoffi bod pobl yn betio. Yr oedd betio’n bod cyn y Loteri Genedlaethol. Nid oes dim newydd yn ei gylch. Mewn gwirionedd, fe’i dadreoleiddiwyd gan Lywodraeth Lafur. Nid wyf yn bod yn feirniadol, dim ond nodi bod betio’n bod cyn y loteri. Yr wyf yn rhyw gofio pethau fel y pyllau pêl droed, bondiau premiwm ac yn y blaen. Nid oes dim newydd yn hyn.

Janet Davies spoken in English p. 63

Janet Davies siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 63

We all agree that there is nothing new in betting. However, the problem with the National Lottery is that it is institutionalised state betting, which disadvantages poorer people and redirects money towards the better off. That is the crunch and that is Plaid Cymru’s position.

Yr ydym oll yn cytuno nad oes dim newydd mewn betio. Fodd bynnag, y broblem gyda’r Loteri Genedlaethol yw ei bod yn fetio gwladol sefydliadol, sydd yn rhoi pobl dlotach dan anfantais ac yn ailgyfeirio arian tuag at y rhai gwell eu byd. Dyna’r peth tyngedfennol a dyna safbwynt Plaid Cymru.

Nick Bourne spoken in English p. 64

Nick Bourne siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 64

Thank you for clarifying that. I will come to the issue of equity and distribution later. We will support Christine Humphreys’s amendment 6, which takes care of that issue to some extent. There is a point here to discuss, but as long as it is established that the general principle is welcome, then at least we know where Plaid Cymru sits on this issue. It is only right that we recognise, as Jonathan Morgan eloquently said, that the lottery has done much good, even in rural areas. Elin Jones rightly said that more could be done in rural areas, but we need to recognise that many of the large projects will, of necessity, be in the larger cities. You cannot have a millennium stadium in a small village; that would not make sense. However, much good has been done for small youth clubs, groups of disadvantaged people and organisations, and help has been given to village halls and so on. We should occasionally give ourselves a pat on the back for what we do well. We could have more equitable distribution of these projects and I welcome that suggestion, but the lottery has done an immense amount of good.

Diolch i chi am egluro hynny. Dof at fater tegwch a dosbarthu’n ddiweddarach. Byddwn yn cefnogi gwelliant 6 Christine Humphreys, sydd yn gofalu am y mater hwnnw i ryw raddau. Mae pwynt yma i’w drafod, ond cyhyd ag y cadarnheir bod yr egwyddor gyffredinol yn dderbyniol, yna o leiaf y gwyddom ym mhle y mae Plaid Cymru yn eistedd ar y mater hwn. Nid yw ond yn iawn inni gydnabod, fel y dywedodd Jonathan Morgan yn huawdl, fod y loteri wedi gwneud llawer o les, hyd yn oed mewn ardaloedd gwledig. Yr oedd Elin Jones yn gywir wrth ddweud y gellid gwneud mwy mewn ardaloedd gwledig, ond mae angen inni gydnabod y bydd llawer o’r prosiectau mawr, o reidrwydd, yn y dinasoedd mwy. Ni allwch gael stadiwm mileniwm mewn pentref bach; ni fyddai synnwyr yn hynny. Fodd bynnag, gwnaethpwyd llawer o les i glybiau ieuenctid bach, grwpiau o bobl dan anfantais a mudiadau, a rhoddwyd cymorth i neuaddau pentref ac yn y blaen. Dylem ein llongyfarch ein hunain weithiau am yr hyn a wnawn yn dda. Gallem gael dosbarthu tecach ar y prosiectau hyn a chroesawaf yr awgrym hwnnw, ond mae’r loteri wedi gwneud lles mawr iawn.

I will focus on a few main issues. One is the dome, which has been much talked about. Delyth might say that it has been talked about too much, but it is relevant in that it siphons off money to London from the rest of the country. Initially, it was a Conservative idea, but we must be clear that only the present Labour Government can stop it now. I hope that comments will be made on that. It is a black hole; money disappears into that project, which is very different from what was originally envisaged. As Jonathan Morgan mentioned, the Prime Minister said that this is a matter on which the Labour Government should be judged and that he would be happy were that the case. I would also be happy if that were the case, because it will mean that he will lose in spades when the General Election is called—although I suspect that that will happen anyway.

Canolbwyntiaf ar ychydig o’r prif faterion. Un ohonynt yw’r dôm, y bu llawer o sôn amdano. Gallai Delyth ddweud bod gormod o sôn wedi bod amdano, ond mae’n berthnasol i’r graddau ei fod yn tynnu arian i Lundain oddi wrth weddill y wlad. Ar y dechrau, syniad y Ceidwadwyr ydoedd, ond rhaid inni fod yn glir mai ond y Llywodraeth Lafur bresennol a all ei atal yn awr. Gobeithiaf y gwneir sylwadau ar hynny. Mae’n dwll du; mae arian yn diflannu i’r prosiect hwnnw, sydd yn wahanol iawn i’r hyn a ragwelwyd yn wreiddiol. Fel y dywedodd Jonathan Morgan, dywedodd y Prif Weinidog fod hyn yn fater y dylid barnu’r Llywodraeth Lafur arno ac y byddai’n fodlon pe digwyddai hynny. Byddwn innau’n fodlon pe digwyddai hynny, oherwydd bydd yn golygu y bydd yn colli’n ddrwg pan elwir yr Etholiad Cyffredinol—er fy mod yn amau y bydd hynny’n digwydd beth bynnag.

On the equity argument, we need to consider fair distribution of the resources in the United Kingdom and in Wales. That is true. However, what concerns me, and what I wish to talk about most, is the principle of additionality. We need to reaffirm the original principle—it is in the legislation—that the money going to the various funds will be additional to public spending. That has always been a clear principle of the National Lottery, at least until recently. Yesterday Alan Milburn talked about a percentage of lottery funding going towards funding the health service. That is wrong and I hope that Tom Middlehurst will say so when he replies to the debate.

Ynghylch y ddadl ar degwch, mae angen inni ystyried dosbarthu teg o’r adnoddau yn y Deyrnas Unedig ac yng Nghymru. Mae hynny’n wir. Fodd bynnag, yr hyn sydd o bwys i mi, a’r hyn y dymunaf sôn amdano fwyaf, yw egwyddor ychwanegedd. Mae angen inni ailddatgan yr egwyddor wreiddiol—mae yn y ddeddfwriaeth—y bydd yr arian sydd yn mynd i’r gwahanol gronfeydd yn ychwanegol at wariant cyhoeddus. Bu hynny’n egwyddor amlwg ar gyfer y Loteri Genedlaethol erioed, hyd yn ddiweddar o leiaf. Ddoe soniodd Alan Milburn am ganran o gyllid loteri yn mynd tuag at ariannu’r gwasanaeth iechyd. Mae hynny’n anghywir a gobeithiaf y bydd Tom Middlehurst yn dweud hynny pan yw’n ymateb i’r ddadl.

I also pick up on what the First Secretary said in a Cabinet meeting about the New Opportunities Fund. The most recently published Cabinet minutes state:

Crybwyllaf hefyd yr hyn a ddywedodd y Prif Ysgrifennydd mewn cyfarfod o’r Cabinet am y Gronfa Cyfleoedd Newydd. Mae’r cofnodion Cabinet diweddaraf a gyhoeddwyd yn datgan:

‘The money could also be used as match funding for Objective 1 projects’.

‘Gellid defnyddio’r arian hefyd fel cyllid cyfatebol ar gyfer prosiectau Amcan 1’.

I hope not. We have been assured that this sort of money should not be used for Objective 1 projects. Additionality is an important principle and we must re-establish it today. That is why we support all the amendments to the motion, with particular emphasis on additionality.

Gobeithiaf na wneir hynny. Fe’n sicrhawyd na ddylid defnyddio’r math hwn o arian ar gyfer prosiectau Amcan 1. Mae ychwanegedd yn egwyddor bwysig a rhaid inni ei hailsefydlu heddiw. Dyna pam y cefnogwn yr holl welliannau i’r cynnig, gyda phwyslais arbennig ar ychwanegedd.

In conclusion, the National Lottery has achieved much good. However, it could do better. That is why people like us must debate and establish principles to guide it along different lines. It could be more equitable and the principle of additionality must be restated. I welcome the openness of Cabinet minutes because we can read those comments by the First Secretary. Sadly, he is not here to defend himself, and the person who shares his job is not here at the moment. However, I hope that Tom Middlehurst will be able to take up this point with the First Secretary. I quote the minutes again:

I derfynu, mae’r Loteri Genedlaethol wedi cyflawni llawer o ddaioni. Fodd bynnag, gallai wneud yn well. Dyna pam y mae’n rhaid i rai fel ni drafod a sefydlu egwyddorion i’w harwain ar hyd llwybrau gwahanol. Gallai fod yn decach a rhaid ailddatgan egwyddor ychwanegedd. Croesawaf natur agored cofnodion y Cabinet oherwydd gallwn ddarllen y sylwadau hynny gan y Prif Ysgrifennydd. Gwaetha’r modd, nid yw yma i’w amddiffyn ei hun, ac nid yw’r un sydd yn rhannu ei swydd yma ar y funud. Fodd bynnag, gobeithiaf y bydd Tom Middlehurst yn gallu codi’r pwynt hwn gyda’r Prif Ysgrifennydd. Dyfynnaf o’r cofnodion eto:

‘The money could also be used as match funding for Objective 1 projects.’

‘Gellid defnyddio’r arian hefyd fel cyllid cyfatebol ar gyfer prosiectau Amcan 1’

Alison Halford spoken in English p. 66

Alison Halford siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 66

We all accept that lottery funding has the potential to assist in delivering the Assembly’s major goals: improving learning opportunities, building a stronger economy and helping disadvantaged communities. Tom was honest and made useful points. He also mentioned shortcomings. However, we must ensure that the bodies responsible for allocating lottery funding in Wales do so sympathetically to our goals. We must see an end to the habitual practice of awarding grants to large projects in capital cities. I will not mention the dreaded dome.

Yr ydym oll yn derbyn bod potensial mewn cyllid loteri i gynorthwyo wrth wireddu prif nodau’r Cynulliad: gwella cyfleoedd dysgu, adeiladu economi gryfach a helpu cymunedau sydd dan anfantais. Yr oedd Tom yn onest a gwnaeth bwyntiau buddiol. Soniodd hefyd am ddiffygion. Fodd bynnag, rhaid inni sicrhau bod y cyrff sydd yn gyfrifol am ddyrannu cyllid loteri yng Nghymru’n gwneud hynny mewn cydymdeimlad â’n nodau. Rhaid inni weld diwedd ar yr arfer defodol o ddyfarnu grantiau i brosiectau mawr mewn prifddinasoedd. Ni chrybwyllaf y dôm ofnadwy.

My constituency—Delyn, in north Wales—has received awards well below the national average, while London and, to an extent, Cardiff have benefited from the biggest grants. This is not a north-south Wales divide; it is the truth. The three Cardiff constituencies have received 26 times more money than Delyn.

Mae fy etholaeth i—Delyn, yng ngogledd Cymru—wedi derbyn dyfarniadau sydd ymhell islaw’r cyfartaledd cenedlaethol, tra elwodd Llundain ac, i ryw raddau, Caerdydd ar y grantiau mwyaf. Nid rhaniad rhwng y de a’r gogledd yw hwn; y gwir ydyw. Mae tair etholaeth Caerdydd wedi derbyn 26 gwaith mwy o arian na Delyn.

David Melding spoken in English p. 66

David Melding siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 66

As a Member who represents Cardiff, do you accept that people all over Wales benefit from a project like the millennium stadium? It is not only the people of Cardiff who go to watch Wales play rugby.

Fel Aelod sydd yn cynrychioli Caerdydd, a ydych yn derbyn bod pobl ledled Cymru’n elwa o brosiect fel Stadiwm y Mileniwm? Nid pobl Caerdydd yw’r unig rai a â i weld Cymru’n chwarae rygbi.

Alison Halford spoken in English p. 66

Alison Halford siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 66

I accept that more goes to the South than to the North.

Derbyniaf fod mwy yn mynd i’r De nag i’r Gogledd.

I welcome Chris Smith’s recent announcement on measures to ensure that coalfield areas receive extra grants to compensate for the shortfall in previous years. I am happy that Flintshire will be included in that programme. However, as Tom admitted, Wales’s sports and arts councils are under-funded by the lottery in comparison with England. The Arts Council of England receives 14 times more money that its Welsh equivalent. Sport England receives 19 times more than the Sports Council for Wales. That is uneven and cannot be right and fair to the people of Wales. A little gem of a theatre in Delyn is £900,000 in debt, despite meeting its box office targets. I plead for lottery funding to bail it out.

Croesawaf ddatganiad diweddar Chris Smith ar fesurau i sicrhau bod ardaloedd meysydd glo’n derbyn grantiau ychwanegol i wneud iawn am y diffyg mewn blynyddoedd blaenorol. Yr wyf yn falch y bydd Sir y Fflint wedi ei chynnwys yn y rhaglen honno. Fodd bynnag, fel y cyfaddefodd Tom, mae cynghorau chwaraeon a chelfyddydau Cymru wedi eu tanariannu gan y loteri o’u cymharu â Lloegr. Mae Cyngor Celfyddydau Lloegr yn derbyn 14 gwaith mwy o arian na’i gymar yng Nghymru. Mae Sport England yn derbyn 19 gwaith mwy na Chyngor Chwaraeon Cymru. Mae hynny’n anghyson ac ni all fod yn iawn ac yn deg i bobl Cymru. Mae gem fach o theatr yn Nelyn mewn dyled o £900,000, er ei bod wedi cyrraedd ei thargedau swyddfa docynnau. Apeliaf am gyllid loteri i’w hachub.

We must make our voices and priorities heard for all the people of Wales. We must ensure that we, the elected representatives of the people of Wales, are represented on the allocating bodies. I want to ensure that the right people make the right decisions. The appointment procedure leaves much to be desired. That is not a real criticism but it must be addressed. The New Opportunities Fund board graciously allows one place for a Welsh representative. That post was held by Jane Hutt. However, when she was elected, she resigned and the vacancy has existed for a year. Appointing a replacement is a matter for Chris Smith, who also consults the First Secretary. However, to date, regrettably, there has been no consultation with Assembly Members on the appointee.

Rhaid inni sicrhau y clywir ein lleisiau a’n blaenoriaethau gan holl bobl Cymru. Rhaid inni sicrhau y’n cynrychiolir ni, gynrychiolwyr etholedig pobl Cymru, ar y cyrff dyrannu. Dymunaf sicrhau bod y bobl iawn yn gwneud y penderfyniadau iawn. Mae llawer o le i wella ar y weithdrefn benodi. Nid yw honno’n feirniadaeth wirioneddol ond rhaid rhoi sylw iddi. Mae bwrdd y Gronfa Cyfleoedd Newydd mor haelionus â chaniatáu un lle i gynrychiolydd o Gymru. Daliwyd y swydd honno gan Jane Hutt. Fodd bynnag, pan y’i hetholwyd, ymddiswyddodd ac mae’r swydd yn wag ers blwyddyn. Mae penodi un yn ei lle yn fater i Chris Smith, sydd hefyd yn ymgynghori â’r Prif Ysgrifennydd. Fodd bynnag, hyd yn hyn, gwaetha’r modd, ni fu ymgynghori ag Aelodau’r Cynulliad ar yr un a benodir.

On 21 February, having written to a New Opportunities Fund officer in Wales, I received a letter saying that the short-listing had begun for appointing a Welsh board member. Yet, three and a half months later, the Assembly has yet to receive any information, movement or consultation on this appointment. If we are not allowed to be represented, it is no wonder that there are inconsistencies in where money goes. If we are to ensure that the interests of the people of Wales are expressed on the New Opportunities Fund board and to the other allocating bodies, we must begin by ensuring that our representative is appointed in an open and transparent manner and soon. Naturally, I support the aims and principles of the motion. Let us remember that the New Opportunities Fund is a Labour concept, and Welsh Labour should congratulate itself for having a part in that. However, we need to get a move on, get our representative on the board and ensure that north Wales receives a little bit more or as much as south Wales.

Ar 21 Chwefror, ar ôl ysgrifennu at swyddog o’r Gronfa Cyfleoedd Newydd yng Nghymru, derbyniais lythyr yn dweud bod y rhestr fer wedi dechrau cael ei llunio ar gyfer penodi aelod bwrdd o Gymru. Eto, dri mis a hanner yn ddiweddarach, nid yw’r Cynulliad eto wedi derbyn unrhyw wybodaeth, symud neu ymgynghori ar y penodiad hwn. Os na chaniateir cynrychiolaeth i ni, nid oes ryfedd bod anghysonderau o ran y lleoedd y mae’r arian yn mynd iddynt. Os ydym i sicrhau bod buddiannau pobl Cymru wedi eu mynegi ar fwrdd y Gronfa Cyfleoedd Newydd ac i’r cyrff dyrannu eraill, rhaid inni ddechrau drwy sicrhau bod ein cynrychiolydd wedi ei benodi mewn modd agored a thryloyw ac yn fuan. Wrth gwrs, cefnogaf nodau ac egwyddorion y cynnig. Gadewch inni gofio mai cysyniad Llafur yw’r Gronfa Cyfleoedd Newydd, ac y dylai Llafur Cymru ei longyfarch ei hun am gael rhan yn hynny. Fodd bynnag, rhaid inni roi troed arni, cael ein cynrychiolydd ar y bwrdd a sicrhau bod gogledd Cymru’n derbyn ychydig mwy neu gymaint â de Cymru.

Peter Black spoken in English p. 67

Peter Black siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 67

When I read the motion on today’s agenda, I thought that it was a bit thin. Even with the substance that is provided by the amendments, it seems to me that we are talking about many things that, although they directly affect Wales, the Assembly is not in a position to directly influence, other than by exhortation to the Westminster Government and the various lottery funding bodies.

Pan ddarllenais y cynnig ar yr agenda ar gyfer heddiw, credais ei fod braidd yn ddisylwedd. Hyd yn oed gyda’r sylwedd a roddir gan y gwelliannau, ymddengys i mi ein bod yn sôn am lawer o bethau, er eu bod yn effeithio ar Gymru’n uniongyrchol, nad yw’r Cynulliad mewn sefyllfa i ddylanwadu arnynt yn uniongyrchol, heblaw drwy annog Llywodraeth San Steffan a’r gwahanol gyrff cyllid loteri.

To be parochial to an extent, I am concerned, as are many other Members, about the way in which lottery funding is distributed around Wales. I represent the South Wales West region, which consists of seven constituencies. When you look at the amount of money that those seven constituencies have received in grants and compare it against the amount that is spent by my constituents on lottery tickets on a weekly basis, the seven constituencies are all in the bottom half of the league table that can be drawn up to compare them with other constituencies. There are huge discrepancies in terms of the amount spent by the lottery in each constituency per head of population. Of the seven constituencies, Swansea West has received grants of £108.75 per head of population. The award of the 50 metre swimming pool has enhanced that a little. Aberavon received £42.57 per head between 1994 and 1998. Bridgend received a little over £41 per head, Neath received about £40 per head, Gower received £39 per head and Ogmore received £35.88 per head. Swansea East, the constituency in which I live, only received £19.80 per head. By comparison, Cardiff is the biggest gainer from lottery grants, as has already been pointed out. I know that there are many reasons for that. Cardiff Central received nearly £60 million in grants in the same period. That is a total of over £700 per head.

A bod yn blwyfol i ryw raddau, yr wyf yn bryderus, fel y mae llawer o Aelodau eraill, ynghylch y modd y dosberthir cyllid loteri o amgylch Cymru. Cynrychiolaf ranbarth Gorllewin De Cymru, sydd yn cynnwys saith etholaeth. Pan edrychwch ar swm yr arian a dderbyniodd y saith etholaeth hynny mewn grantiau a’i gymharu â’r swm a werir gan fy etholwyr ar docynnau loteri yn wythnosol, mae’r saith etholaeth i gyd yn hanner gwaelod y tabl cynghrair y gellir ei lunio i’w cymharu ag etholaethau eraill. Mae anghysonderau enfawr o ran y swm a werir gan y loteri ym mhob etholaeth fesul pen o’r boblogaeth. O’r saith etholaeth, mae Gorllewin Abertawe wedi derbyn grantiau o £108.75 y pen o’r boblogaeth. Mae dyfarnu’r pwll nofio 50 medr wedi gwella hynny ychydig. Derbyniodd Aberafan £42.57 y pen rhwng 1994 a 1998. Derbyniodd Pen-y-bont ar Ogwr ychydig dros £41 y pen, derbyniodd Castell-nedd tua £40 y pen, derbyniodd Gŵyr £39 y pen a derbyniodd Ogwr £35.88 y pen. Ni dderbyniodd Dwyrain Abertawe, yr etholaeth lle’r wyf yn byw, ond £19.80 y pen. O’i gymharu, Caerdydd sydd wedi ennill fwyaf o grantiau loteri, fel y nodwyd eisoes. Gwn fod llawer o resymau am hynny. Derbyniodd Canol Caerdydd bron £60 miliwn mewn grantiau yn yr un cyfnod. Mae hynny’n gyfanswm o dros £700 y pen.

Jenny Randerson a gododd—

Jenny Randerson rose—

Peter Black spoken in English p. 68

Peter Black siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 68

I knew that Jenny was going to stand up.

Gwyddwn y byddai Jenny yn codi ar ei thraed.

Jenny Randerson spoken in English p. 68

Jenny Randerson siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 68

Do you accept that well over £50 million of that money went towards one project, the Millennium Stadium, which could hardly be said to be a project built as a local project for the people of Cardiff Central?

A dderbyniwch fod ymhell dros £50 miliwn o’r arian hwnnw wedi mynd tuag at un prosiect, Stadiwm y Mileniwm, na ellid o’r braidd ei alw’n brosiect a adeiladwyd fel prosiect lleol ar gyfer pobl Canol Caerdydd?

Peter Black spoken in English p. 69

Peter Black siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 69

Of course, the Millennium Stadium also benefits the other constituencies in Cardiff.

Wrth gwrs, mae Stadiwm y Mileniwm o fudd i’r etholaethau eraill yng Nghaerdydd hefyd.

Jenny Randerson spoken in English p. 69

Jenny Randerson siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 69

Have you ever been there?

A fuoch yno erioed?

Peter Black spoken in English p. 69

Peter Black siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 69

I have been there. It is worth recording that the Daily Post, I think, reported that £84 million of the income from the Rugby World Cup came to the Cardiff area, whereas less than £1 million benefited the rest of Wales. Although I accept that the Millennium Stadium in Cardiff is a national stadium for the benefit of Wales, in economic terms the money does not go outside of Cardiff to any great extent.

Bûm yno. Mae’n werth cofnodi bod y Daily Post, yr wyf yn credu, wedi adrodd bod £84 miliwn o’r incwm o Gwpan Rygbi’r Byd wedi dod i ardal Caerdydd, tra oedd gweddill Cymru lai na £1 filiwn ar ei ennill. Er fy mod yn derbyn bod Stadiwm y Mileniwm yng Nghaerdydd yn stadiwm cenedlaethol er budd Cymru, yn nhermau economaidd nid yw’r arian yn mynd y tu allan i Gaerdydd i unrhyw raddau mawr.

David Melding spoken in English p. 69

David Melding siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 69

When you talk about the income brought in by an event such as the World Cup, the people employed in those events come from a wide area in south Wales at least. The whole Welsh economy is improved by such an event. You are engaged in a facile analysis.

Pan soniwch am yr incwm a ddaw i mewn drwy ddigwyddiad fel Cwpan y Byd, daw’r bobl a gyflogir yn y digwyddiadau hynny o ardal eang yn ne Cymru o leiaf. Caiff holl economi Cymru ei gwella drwy ddigwyddiad o’r fath. Yr ydych yn ymgymryd â dadansoddiad arwynebol.

Peter Black spoken in English p. 69

Peter Black siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 69

I shall look up ‘facile analysis’ later. The analysis may be skin-deep in many respects. It is a serious point that a major project has come to the capital city. No one is saying that the capital city does not deserve major projects, because like Flintshire, Delyn, Swansea, Pembrokeshire and any other part of Wales, it should bid for those projects. However, the benefits do not spread as widely as people like to believe. Although, it may well pull in people from outside Cardiff and offer them employment, those benefits tend to stop outside a certain radius around the Millennium Stadium.

Chwiliaf am ‘dadansoddiad arwynebol’ yn ddiweddarach. Efallai fod y dadansoddiad yn arwynebol ar lawer ystyr. Mae’n bwynt difrifol bod prosiect mawr wedi dod i’r brifddinas. Nid oes neb yn dweud nad yw’r brifddinas yn haeddu prosiectau mawr, oherwydd fel Sir y Fflint, Delyn, Abertawe, Sir Benfro ac unrhyw ran arall o Gymru, dylai ymgeisio am y prosiectau hynny. Fodd bynnag, nid yw’r manteision yn ymledu mor eang ag y mae rhai’n hoffi credu. Er ei bod yn bosibl iawn ei fod yn tynnu pobl i mewn o’r tu allan i Gaerdydd ac yn cynnig gwaith iddynt, mae’r manteision hynny’n tueddu i ddod i ben y tu hwnt i ryw gylch o gwmpas Stadiwm y Mileniwm.

When one considers how much money is spent per head in each constituency, one sees that some areas of Wales are doing better than others. Cardiff South and Penarth, where we are at the moment, has had a huge amount of public investment in terms of the Cardiff Bay development. I am not singling out Cardiff for any reason other than the fact that the statistics show that more money is being spent in this part of Wales. Cardiff South and Penarth receives £550 per head from lottery funding. These statistics show that there are still huge inequalities in Wales in terms of the distribution of lottery money. What is worse is that the areas that receive the least are those with higher levels of deprivation, which qualify for Objective 1 assistance. There is an urgent need to re-evaluate—

Pan yw rhywun yn ystyried faint o arian a werir y pen ym mhob etholaeth, gwelir bod rhai ardaloedd o Gymru’n gwneud yn well na’i gilydd. Mae De Caerdydd a Phenarth, lle’r ydym yn awr, wedi cael swm anferth o fuddsoddi cyhoeddus ar ffurf datblygiad Bae Caerdydd. Nid wyf yn dewis Caerdydd am unrhyw reswm heblaw’r ffaith fod yr ystadegau’n dangos bod mwy o arian yn cael ei wario yn y rhan hon o Gymru. Mae De Caerdydd a Phenarth yn derbyn £550 y pen o gyllid loteri. Dengys yr ystadegau hyn fod anghydraddoldebau mawr yng Nghymru o hyd o ran dosbarthu arian loteri. Yr hyn sydd waeth yw mai’r ardaloedd sydd yn derbyn y lleiaf yw’r rhai â lefelau amddifadedd uwch, sydd yn gymwys i dderbyn cymorth Amcan 1. Mae taer angen ailgloriannu—

Christine Chapman spoken in English p. 70

Christine Chapman siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 70

You raised the point about poorer areas not accessing lottery grants. Do you agree that the organisations that award grants should adopt a more innovative approach to supporting those areas, helping them to access more of those grants?

Codasoch y pwynt ynghylch ardaloedd tlotach yn peidio â chael mynediad i grantiau loteri. A gytunwch y dylai’r cyrff sydd yn dyfarnu grantiau fabwysiadu dull mwy arloesol o gefnogi’r ardaloedd hynny, gan eu helpu i gael mynediad i fwy o’r grantiau hynny?

Peter Black spoken in English p. 70

Peter Black siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 70

I agree. I was coming to that. I will finish my point and then answer your question.

Cytunaf. Yr oeddwn yn dod at hynny. Gorffennaf fy mhwynt ac ateb eich cwestiwn wedyn.

There is an urgent need to re-evaluate the way that lottery grants are paid to make applying simpler and to provide more timely advice to organisations and groups as to what they can bid for and how to go about it. Above all, the lottery boards themselves need to take notice of the National Assembly’s policies and ensure that they seek to distribute money to the areas in most need.

Mae taer angen ailgloriannu’r modd y telir grantiau loteri er mwyn symleiddio ymgeisio a rhoi cyngor mwy amserol i fudiadau a grwpiau ynghylch yr hyn y gallant ymgeisio amdano a sut i fynd yn ei gylch. Yn fwy na dim, mae angen i’r byrddau loteri eu hunain sylwi ar bolisïau’r Cynulliad Cenedlaethol a sicrhau eu bod yn ceisio dosbarthu arian i’r ardaloedd mwyaf anghenus.

Concern has been expressed about lottery funding replacing core funding. I share that concern. I was involved in at least one lottery bid with my local community centre. I was horrified at the amount of paperwork and the number of obstacles put in the way of a small volunteer group. We managed to negotiate that with much assistance from the local council. We received the money and built the extension to the community centre. The amount of paperwork, red tape and responsibility that is placed on the shoulders of voluntary groups, particularly in delivering the larger projects, can deter people from applying for lottery funding. It can lead to lottery applications being aborted or not being as successful as they should be.

Mynegwyd pryder ynghylch cyllid loteri’n cymryd lle cyllid craidd. Rhannaf y pryder hwnnw. Yr oeddwn yn gysylltiedig ag o leiaf un cais loteri gyda fy nghanolfan gymuned leol. Arswydais at faint y gwaith papur a nifer y rhwystrau a roddwyd yn ffordd grŵp bach o wirfoddolwyr. Llwyddasom i negodi hynny gyda llawer o gymorth oddi wrth y cyngor lleol. Derbyniasom yr arian ac adeiladu’r estyniad i’r ganolfan gymuned. Mae swm y gwaith papur, y fiwrocratiaeth a’r cyfrifoldeb a roddir ar ysgwyddau grwpiau gwirfoddol, yn enwedig wrth wireddu’r prosiectau mwy, yn gallu cadw pobl rhag ymgeisio am gyllid loteri. Gall arwain at roi’r gorau i geisiadau loteri neu eu rhwystro rhag llwyddo fel y dylent.

Coming back to the point about core funding, I am engaged in trying to attract lottery funding to fund youth outreach workers in my constituency—

A dychwelyd at y pwynt am gyllid craidd, yr wyf wrthi yn ceisio denu cyllid loteri i ariannu gweithwyr allanol ieuenctid yn fy etholaeth—

Janet Ryder spoken in English p. 71

Janet Ryder siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 71

I return to your point about volunteers applying for grants. As it is volunteering week, do you agree that it is a heavy responsibility on volunteers to complete the forms and monitor the projects? Unless we address this problem, we deter people from volunteering. We must consider this problem seriously and quickly.

Dychwelaf at eich pwynt am wirfoddolwyr yn ymgeisio am grantiau. Gan mai wythnos gwirfoddoli ydyw, a gytunwch fod llenwi’r ffurflenni a monitro’r prosiectau’n gyfrifoldeb trwm ar wirfoddolwyr? Os nad ymdriniwn â’r broblem hon, byddwn yn cadw pobl rhag gwirfoddoli. Rhaid inni ystyried y broblem hon o ddifrif ac yn fuan.

Peter Black spoken in English p. 71

Peter Black siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 71

I agree. Janet mirrored the points that I made. Volunteers are deterred by the process of applying for lottery grants. Voluntary groups want the money. They want to go ahead with projects. However, the amount of red tape, conditions and pre-conditions that many of those groups must meet and the responsibility of managing the project can cause them problems. It can lead them to feel that they cannot give the time, commitment and dedication that they previously felt that they could give to projects. I hope that we can address that. It is incumbent on local councils, particularly, to provide support to volunteer groups in navigating through the mass of red tape to achieve a successful lottery grant. It is, after all, in their interests to see money being invested in their areas. I hope that many councils will take that on board, adding to the councils that already provide that support.

Cytunaf. Adlewyrchodd Janet y pwyntiau a wneuthum i. Cedwir pobl rhag gwirfoddoli gan y broses o ymgeisio am grantiau loteri. Mae ar grwpiau gwirfoddol eisiau’r arian. Dymunant fynd ymlaen â phrosiectau. Fodd bynnag, mae maint y fiwrocratiaeth, yr amodau a’r rhagamodau y mae’n rhaid i lawer o’r grwpiau hynny eu cyflawni a’r cyfrifoldeb o reoli’r prosiect yn gallu peri problemau iddynt. Gall eu harwain i deimlo na allant roi’r amser, yr ymrwymiad a’r ymroddiad y teimlent eu bod yn gallu eu rhoi i brosiectau o’r blaen. Gobeithiaf y gallwn roi sylw i hynny. Mae’n ddyletswydd ar gynghorau lleol, yn enwedig, ddarparu cymorth i grwpiau gwirfoddol wrth chwilio’r ffordd drwy’r holl fiwrocratiaeth i lwyddo i gael grant loteri. Wedi’r cwbl, mae er budd iddynt weld arian yn cael ei fuddsoddi yn eu hardaloedd. Gobeithiaf y bydd llawer o gynghorau’n derbyn hynny, gan ychwanegu at y cynghorau sydd eisoes yn darparu’r cymorth hwnnw.

I mentioned the project in which I am involved. We are trying to raise money for youth outreach workers in my area. It is a fundamental need if we are to engage with young people to try to get them off street corners and into useful work, in which they feel they have a part. That involves them in a consultative role and empowers them. That funding should be supplied by local councils and by the National Assembly. To an extent, it is being done, but local councils do not have that money. Therefore, people turn to the lottery.

Crybwyllais y prosiect yr wyf yn gysylltiedig ag ef. Yr ydym yn ceisio codi arian ar gyfer gweithwyr ieuenctid allanol yn fy ardal. Mae’n angen sylfaenol os ydym i gysylltu â phobl ifanc er mwyn ceisio eu cael oddi ar gorneli strydoedd ac i waith buddiol, y teimlant fod ganddynt ran ynddo. Mae hynny’n eu cynnwys mewn rôl ymgynghorol ac yn eu galluogi. Dylai’r cyllid hwnnw gael ei ddarparu gan gynghorau lleol a chan y Cynulliad Cenedlaethol. I raddau, gwneir hynny, ond nid yw’r arian hwnnw gan gynghorau lleol. Felly, mae pobl yn troi at y loteri.

Delyth Evans siaradwyd yn Gymraeg t. 72

Delyth Evans spoken in Welsh p. 72

Bu cryn drafod ar annhegwch yn nosbarthiad yr arian loteri. Derbyniaf y pwynt hwnnw. Mae hynny’n wir. Fodd bynnag, mae hefyd yn adlewyrchu diffyg dealltwriaeth neu, efallai, ddiffyg cydnabyddiaeth o’r modd y mae’r broses o ddosbarthu arian yn gweithio. Nid wyf yma i amddiffyn y cronfeydd loteri, ond, mewn swydd arall, gweithiais i helpu awdurdodau lleol i gyflwyno ceisiadau ar gyfer y loteri. Felly, gwn rywbeth am y maes hwn.

There has been much discussion about unfairness in the distribution of lottery funding. I accept that point. That is true. However, it also reflects a lack of understanding or, perhaps, a lack of acknowledgement of the way in which the process of distributing money works. I am not here to defend the lottery funds, but, in another job, I worked to help local authorities to submit applications to the lottery. Therefore, I know something about this area.

Mae cronfeydd loteri yn dibynnu ar natur a safon y ceisiadau a dderbynnir. Ni ellir dosbarthu arian ond ar sail y ceisiadau a dderbynnir. Felly, os na dderbynnir ceisiadau teilwng gan ardal, ni all y ffynonellau loteri roi arian i’r ardaloedd hynny. Mae’n bwysig ein bod yn deall hynny pan ydym yn beirniadu’r ffordd y mae’r arian yn cael ei ddosbarthu.

Lottery funds depend on the nature and standard of the applications received. Money can only be distributed on the basis of the applications received. Therefore, if no worthy applications are received from an area, the lottery sources cannot give money to those areas. It is important that we understand that when we criticise the way in which the money is distributed.

Wrth sôn am sut yr ydym am wella’r system, mae’n bwysig sylweddoli mai un o rinweddau’r loteri, fel y mae’n gweithio ar hyn o bryd, yw ei bod yn ymateb i ddyheadau a phrosiectau’r cymunedau. Ei rhinwedd yw nad yw penderfyniadau yn cael eu gwneud yn ganolog. Ni ddosberthir arian ar sail penderfyniad canolog; daw’r penderfyniadau o’r cymunedau. Os ydym yn sôn am wella’r system, mae’n bwysig nad ydym yn colli hynny. Mae’n bwysig ein bod yn cadw’r egwyddor mai’r cymunedau sydd yn cyflwyno ceisiadau.

In talking about how we want to improve the system, it is important to realise that one of the virtues of the lottery, as it currently operates, is that it responds to the aspirations and projects of the communities. Its virtue is that decisions are not made centrally. Money is not distributed on the basis of a central decision; decisions come from the communities. If we are talking about improving the system, it is important that we do not lose that. It is important that we retain the principle that it is the communities that submit applications.

Un o’r pethau pwysicaf y gall Aelodau o’r Cynulliad ei wneud, fel cynrychiolwyr ein cymunedau, yw helpu grwpiau i gynhyrchu ceisiadau teilwng. Dyna’r ffordd i sicrhau bod yr arian yn cael ei ddosbarthu’n well, gan adlewyrchu’n decach y tlodi yn ein cymunedau.

One of the most important things that Assembly Members can do, as representatives of our communities, is to help groups to produce worthy applications. That is the way to ensure better distribution of the money, which better reflects the poverty in our communities.

Croesawaf syniad Elin Jones. Efallai y gallai’r Loteri Genedlaethol anfon swyddogion i gymunedau i’w helpu i ddod â’u syniadau at ei gilydd a gwella safon eu ceisiadau. Nid ydym am i arian cyhoeddus gael ei wario ar gynigion annheilwng. Nid dyna’r ffordd ymlaen.

I welcome Elin Jones’s idea. Perhaps the National Lottery could send officials to communities to help them bring together their ideas and improve the standard of their applications. We do not want public money to be spent on undeserving bids. That is not the way forward.

Mae gennym rôl, fel cynrychiolwyr ein cymunedau, i annog awdurdodau lleol a grwpiau yn ein cymunedau i ddatblygu prosiectau yn yr ardaloedd hynny.

We have a role, as the representatives of our communities, to encourage local authorities and groups in our communities to develop projects in those areas.

Janice Gregory spoken in English p. 73

Janice Gregory siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 73

As we have heard, the National Lottery has become an integral part of the lives of many people throughout the United Kingdom. The money that the lottery generates for good causes has become a vital element in the regeneration of parts of Wales. As others have mentioned, blue ribbon schemes, such as the Millennium Stadium, have brought jobs and an elevated, positive perception of Wales throughout the world. I applaud the grand scale of the project. For a country the size of Wales to have one of the best stadiums in the world can only help our attempts to break away from the old stereotypical images of our country. However, while funding for such projects is to be welcomed, perhaps it is the right time to re-evaluate the funding allocation priorities of the National Lottery Commission to give assistance and regenerate deprived areas through smaller community-based projects, as others have said. That is why I welcome Chris Smith’s announcement, outlining the establishment of a new team to tackle imbalances and a campaign to encourage more applications from areas of low take-up. A scheme where successful bidders help would-be applicants to put forward plans is to be established and the matched funding requirement from areas to which fewer grants have been made will be reduced.

Fel y clywsom, daeth y Loteri Genedlaethol yn rhan annatod o fywydau llawer o bobl ledled y Deyrnas Unedig. Daeth yr arian y mae’r loteri yn ei greu ar gyfer achosion da yn elfen holl bwysig yn adfywiad rhannau o Gymru. Fel y dywedodd eraill, mae cynlluniau rhuban glas, fel Stadiwm y Mileniwm, wedi dod â swyddi a chanfyddiad cadarnhaol, uwch o Gymru ledled y byd. Canmolaf faint mawreddog y prosiect. Mae’r ffaith fod gan wlad o faint Cymru un o’r stadia gorau yn y byd yn sicr o helpu ein hymdrechion i ddianc oddi wrth yr hen ddelweddau ystrydebol o’n gwlad. Fodd bynnag, tra bo cyllid i’r fath brosiectau i’w groesawu, efallai mai hon yw’r adeg iawn i ailgloriannu blaenoriaethau dyrannu cyllid Comisiwn y Loteri Genedlaethol er mwyn rhoi cymorth ac adfywio ardaloedd difreintiedig drwy brosiectau llai yn y gymuned, fel y dywedodd eraill. Dyna pam y croesawaf gyhoeddiad Chris Smith, yn amlinellu sefydlu tîm newydd i fynd i’r afael ag anghydbwysedd ac ymgyrchu i hybu mwy o geisiadau oddi wrth ardaloedd lle y mae cyfranogiad isel. Mae cynllun lle y mae ymgeiswyr llwyddiannus yn helpu darpar ymgeiswyr i gyflwyno cynlluniau i’w sefydlu a gostyngir y gofyniad am gyllid cyfatebol mewn ardaloedd y rhoddwyd llai o grantiau iddynt.

There is a perception among my constituents—rightly or wrongly—that the areas of higher social deprivation in Wales do not receive a fair slice of the lottery pie. That situation is all the more perplexing when you consider that areas of social deprivation in Wales are the highest contributors to the lottery fund through ticket sales and are the areas that require regeneration most urgently. I apologise, Llywydd, for repeating what others have said. It irritates me greatly, but those of us who represent deprived communities must make these points.

Mae canfyddiad ymysg fy etholwyr—yn gam neu’n gymwys—nad yw’r ardaloedd lle ceir amddifadedd cymdeithasol uwch yng Nghymru’n derbyn darn teg o deisen y loteri. Mae’r sefyllfa honno’n peri mwy fyth o benbleth pan ystyriwch mai ardaloedd lle ceir amddifadedd cymdeithasol yng Nghymru yw’r cyfranwyr mwyaf i gronfa’r loteri drwy werthiant tocynnau ac mai’r rhain yw’r ardaloedd y mae’r angen taeraf am eu hadfywio. Ymddiheuraf, Lywydd, am ailadrodd yr hyn a ddywedodd eraill. Mae’n fy nghythruddo’n fawr, ond rhaid i’r rhai ohonom sydd yn cynrychioli cymunedau difreintiedig wneud y pwyntiau hyn.

Since the inception of the National Lottery in the mid-1990s, my constituents in Ogmore—we all throw around statistics—have contributed in excess of £13 million from ticket purchases. The National Lottery Commission has awarded grants in Ogmore that total less than £3 million. It does not take a mathematician to recognise that socially deprived areas that cannot secure blue ribbon projects such as the Millennium Stadium are suffering from inequality of funding that could be interpreted as grossly unfair. In my opinion, it is grossly unfair.

Ers sefydlu’r Loteri Genedlaethol ganol y 1990au, mae fy etholwyr yn Ogwr—yr ydym oll yn lluchio ystadegau—wedi cyfrannu mwy na £13 miliwn drwy brynu tocynnau. Mae Comisiwn y Loteri Genedlaethol wedi dyfarnu grantiau i Ogwr sydd yn dod i gyfanswm o lai na £3 miliwn. Nid oes angen mathemategydd i gydnabod bod ardaloedd cymdeithasol ddifreintiedig na allant sicrhau prosiectau rhuban glas fel Stadiwm y Mileniwm yn dioddef anghydraddoldeb mewn ariannu y gellid ei ddehongli fel rhywbeth ofnadwy o annheg. Yn fy marn i, mae’n ofnadwy o annheg.

Like others, I am concerned about the sustainability of lottery projects in areas of high deprivation. There is a need to consider the possibility of providing further support funding to projects after the initial start-up grant. That would enable more stable long-term development in constituencies such as mine. Another development that I would like to see is the lottery employing regional representatives who would be responsible for identifying grant opportunities and would facilitate the application process, and thus ensure that all areas are throwing their hat into the ring for funding.

Fel eraill, pryderaf ynghylch cynaliadwyedd prosiectau loteri mewn ardaloedd difreintiedig iawn. Mae angen ystyried y posibiliad o ddarparu cyllid cymorth pellach i brosiectau ar ôl y grant sefydlu cychwynnol. Byddai hynny’n galluogi datblygu tymor hir mwy sefydlog mewn etholaethau fel fy un i. Datblygiad arall yr hoffwn ei weld yw’r loteri yn cyflogi cynrychiolwyr rhanbarthol a fyddai’n gyfrifol am ddynodi cyfleoedd am grantiau ac a fyddai’n hwyluso’r broses ymgeisio, a thrwy hynny sicrhau bod pob ardal yn rhoi cynnig ar gael cyllid.

In conclusion, I feel that fair and equitable lottery funding for smaller less media-friendly community-based projects is overdue. Hopefully, this shift of emphasis, when allied with Objective 1 funding, can lead to a much brighter future for socially deprived areas like the constituency that I represent.

I derfynu, teimlaf ei bod yn hen bryd cael cyllid loteri teg a chyfiawn i brosiectau llai yn y gymuned nad ydynt mor ddeniadol i’r cyfryngau. Gobeithiaf y bydd y symud pwyslais hwn, o’i gysylltu â chyllid Amcan 1, yn gallu arwain at ddyfodol mwy llewyrchus o lawer i ardaloedd cymdeithasol ddifreintiedig fel yr etholaeth a gynrychiolaf fi.

Phil Williams spoken in English p. 74

Phil Williams siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 74

Of all the different aspects of lottery funding, the one that concerns me is funding the arts from lottery money via the Arts Council of Wales, which is answerable to the Assembly. Almost a year ago, at a briefing meeting for Assembly Members by the Arts Council, I queried the uneven distribution of funds between the different areas of Wales with so much of the money going, for example, to Cardiff. At the time, I was told that, whereas traditional funding of the arts in Wales was overwhelmingly directed to a few prestigious projects such as the Welsh National Opera, the imbalance would be corrected in the allocation of lottery grants. Over the subsequent year, we have received regular reports on the lottery grants allocated by the Arts Council. It will be no surprise that I concentrated on the heads of the Valleys, with special attention to Blaenau Gwent. The results of my search have been disappointing. Less than 0.1 per cent of the total has been allocated to organisations in Blaenau Gwent; and Merthyr Tydfil and Caerphilly do little better. Not only has the allocation of lottery grants failed to redress the imbalance, it has reinforced it.

O’r holl agweddau gwahanol ar gyllid loteri, yr un sydd yn peri pryder i mi yw ariannu’r celfyddydau o gyllid loteri drwy Gyngor Celfyddydau Cymru, sydd yn atebol i’r Cynulliad. Bron flwyddyn yn ôl, mewn cyfarfod briffio ar gyfer Aelodau’r Cynulliad gan Gyngor y Celfyddydau, holais ynghylch y dosbarthu anghyfartal o gyllid rhwng gwahanol ardaloedd Cymru, gyda chymaint o’r arian yn mynd, er enghraifft, i Gaerdydd. Bryd hynny, dywedwyd wrthyf, er bod yr ariannu traddodiadol ar gyfer y celfyddydau yng Nghymru wedi ei gyfeirio’n llethol at ychydig o brosiectau uchel eu bri fel Opera Genedlaethol Cymru, y byddai’r anghydbwysedd yn cael ei gywiro wrth ddyrannu grantiau loteri. Dros y flwyddyn ddilynol, derbyniasom adroddiadau rheolaidd ar y grantiau loteri a ddyrannwyd gan Gyngor y Celfyddydau. Ni fydd yn syndod imi ganolbwyntio ar flaenau’r Cymoedd, gan roi sylw arbennig i Flaenau Gwent. Bu canlyniadau fy chwilio’n siomedig. Dyrannwyd llai na 0.1 y cant o’r cyfanswm i fudiadau ym Mlaenau Gwent; ac nid yw Merthyr Tudful a Chaerffili’n gwneud yn fawr gwell. Nid yn unig y mae’r dyraniad o grantiau loteri wedi methu ag unioni’r anghydbwysedd, mae wedi ei atgyfnerthu.

I do not have a long data set and I cannot comment on the quality of applications in the Valleys compared with applications from Cardiff. Throughout my life, the Valleys have sustained the best of Welsh cultural tradition, especially the musical tradition. When I was a schoolboy in Bargoed, I was secretly envious of classmates from Tredegar because Tredegar was such a cultural centre. Joan Hammond sang there and Leon Goosens played there. My closest friend took up the oboe as a result. A few weeks ago, during a chat, the vice-president of the European Union, Neil Kinnock, who was one of those school mates from Tredegar, added another name—Gigli sang there. We could not match that in Bargoed but I remember Stuart Burrows and Margaret Price singing in Bargoed central hall.

Nid oes gennyf set ddata hir ac ni allaf wneud sylw ar ansawdd y ceisiadau yn y Cymoedd o’i gymharu â cheisiadau o Gaerdydd. Gydol fy oes, mae’r Cymoedd wedi cynnal y gorau o draddodiad diwylliannol Cymru, yn enwedig y traddodiad cerddorol. Pan oeddwn yn fachgen ysgol ym Margoed, yr oeddwn yn gyfrinachol eiddigeddus o’m cyd-ddisgyblion dosbarth o Dredegar am fod Tredegar yn gymaint o ganolfan ddiwylliannol. Canodd Joan Hammond yno a chwaraeodd Leon Goosens yno. Dechreuodd fy ffrind agosaf ganu’r obo o ganlyniad. Ychydig wythnosau’n ôl, yn ystod sgwrs, ychwanegodd is-lywydd yr Undeb Ewropeaidd, Neil Kinnock, a oedd yn un o’r ffrindiau ysgol hynny o Dredegar, enw arall—canodd Gigli yno. Ni allem gystadlu â hynny ym Margoed ond cofiaf Stuart Burrows a Margaret Price yn canu yn neuadd ganolog Bargoed.

It is sad that the modern equivalents, such as Pavarotti, Carreras or Domingo, never sing in Tredegar. It is equally sad that the Bargoed central hall is no longer available for concerts. However, the underlying musical tradition is still strong because of the enormous effort of some individuals. One of the pleasures of being an Assembly Member is the invitations to concerts in Blaenau Gwent. I have heard four superb choirs and I must name them all: the Tredegar Orpheus, Abertillery Orpheus, Tremaryon Singers and the Abertillery Ladies Choir. The Tredegar Town Band is European champion and includes the world champion trombonist. Each concert, held at a large leisure centre, was a sell-out. That culture lies at the foundation of the success of our prestigious projects. I am old enough to remember Zoe Cresswell from Brithdir singing in ‘Carmen’ with the Welsh National Opera in the 1940s. It came out of that tradition. We have a duty to sustain that tradition, which is of a high standard.

Mae’n drist nad yw’r rhai sydd yn cyfateb iddynt heddiw, fel Pavarotti, Carreras neu Domingo, byth yn canu yn Nhredegar. Mae yr un mor drist nad yw neuadd ganolog Bargoed ar gael bellach ar gyfer cyngherddau. Fodd bynnag, mae’r traddodiad cerddorol sylfaenol yn gryf o hyd oherwydd ymdrech aruthrol rhai unigolion. Un o’r pleserau o fod yn Aelod o’r Cynulliad yw’r gwahoddiadau i gyngherddau ym Mlaenau Gwent. Clywais bedwar côr gwych a rhaid imi enwi pob un ohonynt: Côr Orffews Tredegar, Côr Orffews Abertyleri, Cantorion Tremaryon a Chôr Merched Abertyleri. Band Tref Tredegar yw’r pencampwr Ewropeaidd ac mae’n cynnwys pencampwr y byd ar y trombôn. Gwerthwyd pob tocyn i’r holl gyngherddau, a gynhaliwyd mewn canolfan hamdden fawr. Y diwylliant hwnnw sydd wrth wraidd llwyddiant ein prosiectau uchel eu bri. Yr wyf yn ddigon hen i gofio Zoe Cresswell o’r Brithdir yn canu yn ‘Carmen’ gydag Opera Genedlaethol Cymru yn y 1940au. Daeth o’r traddodiad hwnnw. Mae gennym ddyletswydd i gynnal y traddodiad hwnnw, sydd o safon uchel.

We have suffered for a long time from an elitist administration of the arts. The National Lottery gives us an opportunity to redress the balance. Let us, as an Assembly, ensure that we take that opportunity.

Yr ydym yn dioddef ers talwm o weinyddu elitaidd o’r celfyddydau. Mae’r Loteri Genedlaethol yn rhoi cyfle inni adfer cydbwysedd. Gadewch i ni, fel Cynulliad, sicrhau yr achubwn ar y cyfle hwnnw.

John Griffiths spoken in English p. 76

John Griffiths siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 76

I will begin with a few remarks about the Millennium Dome. As David Melding mentioned facile analysis, I would apply that to Jonathan Morgan’s rewriting of history to try to exonerate the last Conservative Government of blame as far as this is concerned. The incoming Labour Government faced a difficult decision because of the money that had already been committed to the project. The whole project was ill-conceived from the beginning. It was the previous Conservative Government that initiated it. We should recognise that.

Dechreuaf ag ychydig o sylwadau am Ddôm y Mileniwm. Gan i David Melding sôn am ddadansoddi arwynebol, cymhwyswn hynny at Jonathan Morgan yn ailysgrifennu hanes i geisio esgusodi’r Llywodraeth Geidwadol ddiwethaf o fai yn hyn o beth. Yr oedd y Llywodraeth Lafur a ddaeth i rym yn wynebu penderfyniad anodd oherwydd yr arian a oedd eisoes wedi ei neilltuo ar gyfer y prosiect. Yr oedd y prosiect wedi ei lunio’n wael o’r dechrau. Y Llywodraeth Geidwadol flaenorol a’i cychwynnodd. Dylem gydnabod hynny.

I make no apologies for returning to the main theme of many speakers, which is the regressive nature of the National Lottery and the fact that it is a tax on the poor. The position of Newport East is incredibly stark. That constituency contributed approximately £68 million to the National Lottery to the end of last year, which is over a third greater than the contribution of any other constituency in Wales. For that level of support, the return in lottery grants was £1.5 million. That is by far the lowest amount across Wales. It is an amazingly stark and indefensible position, given that Newport East contains some of the most deprived communities in Wales.

Nid ymddiheuraf am ddychwelyd at brif thema llawer o siaradwyr, sef natur atchweliadol y Loteri Genedlaethol a’r ffaith ei bod yn dreth ar y tlodion. Mae sefyllfa Dwyrain Casnewydd yn anhygoel o drawiadol. Cyfrannodd yr etholaeth honno tua £68 miliwn at y Loteri Genedlaethol hyd ddiwedd y llynedd, sydd yn fwy nag un rhan o dair yn fwy na chyfraniad unrhyw etholaeth arall yng Nghymru. Am y lefel honno o gefnogaeth, yr adenillion mewn grantiau loteri oedd £1.5 miliwn. Hwnnw yw’r swm isaf o lawer ledled Cymru. Mae’n sefyllfa syfrdanol o drawiadol ac anamddiffynadwy, o ystyried bod Dwyrain Casnewydd yn cynnwys rhai o’r cymunedau mwyaf difreintiedig yng Nghymru.

I have written to the various lottery distributors many times and have received no positive response in terms of making real progress on these issues. I recognise that Newport as a whole has done better and I welcome the fact that there will be a new arts centre in the next couple of years, which will benefit the people of Newport and the wider area. However, the position of Newport East is indefensible even when including and considering that. It must be addressed. For every £1 spent, the meagre return to the people of Newport East has been a little over two pence. Given that the Assembly has a commitment to social inclusion as a great cross-cutting theme, this state of affairs cannot be allowed to continue.

Ysgrifennais at y gwahanol ddosbarthwyr loteri lawer gwaith ac ni dderbyniais unrhyw ymateb cadarnhaol o ran gwneud cynnydd gwirioneddol ynghylch y materion hyn. Cydnabyddaf fod Casnewydd yn ei chyfanrwydd wedi gwneud yn well a chroesawaf y ffaith y bydd canolfan gelfyddydau newydd ymhen ychydig flynyddoedd, a fydd o les i bobl Casnewydd a’r ardal ehangach. Fodd bynnag, mae sefyllfa Dwyrain Casnewydd yn anamddiffynadwy hyd yn oed gan gynnwys ac ystyried hynny. Rhaid rhoi sylw i hynny. Am bob £1 a wariwyd, yr enillion pitw i bobl Dwyrain Casnewydd oedd ychydig dros ddwy geiniog. O ystyried bod y Cynulliad wedi ymrwymo i gynhwysiant cymdeithasol fel thema drawsbynciol fawr, ni ellir caniatáu i’r sefyllfa hon barhau.

From the beginning, I had grave reservations about the lottery and I still do. Like Tom and Cynog, I have never bought a ticket. I support them morally on that. I had reservations that have been reinforced by the way it has operated. The advent of scratch cards did not alleviate those concerns because they are addictive. Those who are most deprived and least able to afford scratch cards contribute the most. Cynog mentioned that lottery money funded the Churchill papers. I add to that the famous English public school, which received a substantial amount for a leisure facility. The use to which some lottery funding has been put is beyond belief and against a background of those in the most deprived communities contributing the most.

Yr oedd gennyf amheuon mawr ynghylch y loteri o’r dechrau ac maent gennyf o hyd. Fel Tom a Cynog, ni phrynais docyn erioed. Fe’u cefnogaf yn foesol ar hynny. Yr oedd gennyf amheuon a atgyfnerthwyd drwy’r modd y gweithredodd. Ni leddfwyd y pryderon hynny gan ddyfodiad y cardiau crafu oherwydd gall pobl fynd yn gaeth iddynt. Y rhai sydd yn fwyaf difreintiedig ac â’r gallu lleiaf i fforddio cardiau crafu sydd yn cyfrannu’r mwyaf. Soniodd Cynog fod arian loteri wedi ariannu papurau Churchill. Ychwanegaf at hynny yr ysgol fonedd enwog yn Lloegr, a dderbyniodd swm sylweddol ar gyfer cyfleuster hamdden. Mae’r modd y defnyddiwyd rhywfaint o gyllid loteri y tu hwnt i grediniaeth a hynny ar gefndir lle y mae’r rheini yn y cymunedau mwyaf difreintiedig yn cyfrannu’r mwyaf.

Bids for lottery funding from the most deprived communities suffer from the lack of what is termed ‘community capacity’. Those communities with the sharpest elbows and the best contacts prosper from the availability of lottery funds. Five years later, Chris Smith, the Secretary for Culture, Media and Sport, has realised the need to advise lottery money distributors that they must make more effort to direct money to deprived areas. Special action teams are required to draw up smaller scale bids from these deprived communities; greater flexibility will be allowed in how bids are judged and there will be a relaxation of the requirement for partnership funding. In Barnsley, Yorkshire, £3 million has been allocated from lottery funds before an application has been submitted. Teams will be sent into Barnsley to encourage applications and help with complex documentation, which, as we know, has been a problem. The process must be simplified, especially for small organisations. In the light of Chris Smith’s announcements and my general points, I ask Tom to tell us what initiatives he will develop in Wales and what requirements he will have of lottery distributors as to how they will take this forward in Wales.

Mae’r ceisiadau am gyllid loteri o’r cymunedau mwyaf difreintiedig yn dioddef o ddiffyg yr hyn a elwir yn ‘allu cymunedol’. Y cymunedau hynny sydd â’r penelinoedd llymaf a’r cysylltiadau gorau sydd yn elwa o argaeledd cyllid loteri. Bum mlynedd yn ddiweddarach, mae Chris Smith, yr Ysgrifennydd dros Ddiwylliant, y Cyfryngau a Chwaraeon, wedi sylweddoli’r angen i ddweud wrth ddosbarthwyr arian loteri bod yn rhaid iddynt ymdrechu’n fwy i gyfeirio arian at ardaloedd difreintiedig. Mae’n ofynnol i dimau gweithredu arbennig wneud ceisiadau llai oddi wrth y cymunedau difreintiedig hyn; caniateir mwy o hyblygrwydd yn y modd y dyfernir ynghylch ceisiadau ac ystwythir y gofyniad am gyllid partneriaeth. Yn Barnsley, Swydd Efrog, dyrannwyd £3 miliwn o gyllid loteri cyn i gais gael ei gyflwyno. Anfonir timau i Barnsley i annog ceisiadau a helpu gyda dogfennaeth gymhleth, a fu’n broblem, fel y gwyddom. Rhaid symleiddio’r broses, yn enwedig ar gyfer mudiadau bach. Yng ngoleuni cyhoeddiadau Chris Smith a’m sylwadau cyffredinol, gofynnaf i Tom ddweud wrthym pa fentrau y bydd yn eu datblygu yng Nghymru a beth fydd ei ofynion ar ddosbarthwyr loteri ynghylch y modd y bwriant ymlaen â hyn yng Nghymru.

Richard Edwards spoken in English p. 78

Richard Edwards siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 78

Having listened to John, I have realised that perhaps my brief contribution is not quite as off-message as I feared, so I am grateful to you, John. My problem with the lottery, Llywydd, is that it is, by definition, inequitable. I welcome the grant allocation review and the fact that socially disadvantaged areas will be targeted more. I should think so.

Ar ôl gwrando ar John, sylweddolais nad yw fy nghyfraniad byr efallai mor bell oddi wrth y neges ag yr ofnwn, felly yr wyf yn ddiolchgar i chi, John. Y pryder sydd gennyf â’r loteri, Lywydd, yw ei bod, drwy ddiffiniad, yn annheg. Croesawaf yr adolygiad ar ddyrannu grantiau a’r ffaith y caiff ardaloedd dan anfantais gymdeithasol eu targedu’n fwy. Felly y dylai fod.

Preseli Pembrokeshire constituents have spent over £29 million on lottery tickets in the past five years. They have received under £7 million in lottery grants. Other constituencies in the Objective 1 area have far worse rates of return. This is redistribution in reverse; taking far more than giving to the poorest communities. I maintain that it is blatantly exploiting the poorest communities where there is the least capacity, as John said. This is where I get really off-message: surely the advantage of a system of direct taxation, to fair minded people at least, is that it is progressive. It takes from those who have and gives to those who do not have. Most forms of indirect taxation, including the lottery, are regressive. If I sound a bit atavistic, so be it. I regret that it has become orthodox to iniquitously raise substantial amounts of public expenditure, additional or not, instead of through a fair system of taxation.

Mae etholwyr Preseli Sir Benfro wedi gwario dros £29 miliwn ar docynnau loteri yn y pum mlynedd diwethaf. Derbyniasant o dan £7 miliwn mewn grantiau loteri. Mae gan etholaethau eraill yn yr ardal Amcan 1 gyfraddau adennill gwaeth o lawer. Mae hyn yn ailddosbarthu o chwith; cymryd llawer mwy na’r hyn a roddir i’r cymunedau tlotaf. Daliaf ei bod yn ymelwa’n ddigywilydd ar y cymunedau tlotaf lle y mae’r lleiaf o allu, fel y dywedodd John. Dyma lle y byddaf yn mynd yn bell iawn oddi wrth y neges. Tybed nad mantais system treth uniongyrchol, ym marn pobl deg o leiaf, yw ei bod yn flaengar. Mae’n cymryd oddi ar y rhai a chanddynt ddigon ac yn rhoi i rai nad oes ganddynt ddim. Mae’r rhan fwyaf o’r ffurfiau ar dreth anuniongyrchol, gan gynnwys y loteri, yn atchweliadol. Os swniaf braidd yn atafiaethol, boed felly. Gofidiaf ei bod bellach yn uniongred godi symiau sylweddol o wariant cyhoeddus, boed ychwanegol neu fel arall, mewn modd anghyfiawn yn hytrach na drwy system drethiant deg.

Alun Pugh spoken in English p. 79

Alun Pugh siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 79

Perhaps I can also be a little off-message. I was in the teaching profession when the National Lottery started. I taught a statistics class and probability is a standard topic for all beginners in statistics. Students would ask me about strategies for the lottery. My reply was simple: dream about winning the lottery but do not buy a ticket. Buying a ticket makes no difference to your chances of winning the jackpot at any level of statistical significance. The slogan ‘it could be you’ is a triumph of marketing over numeracy. If you must gamble you can get better odds in a casino. You can even get better odds from the one-armed bandits in Station Road in Colwyn Bay. However, we know that many people buy lottery tickets, partly in the hope that they will win but knowing that when they lose the money goes to some good cause.

Efallai y caf finnau fynd ychydig oddi wrth y neges. Yr oeddwn yn athro pan ddechreuodd y Loteri Genedlaethol. Dysgwn ddosbarth ystadegaeth ac mae tebygolrwydd yn bwnc safonol i bawb sydd yn dechrau mewn ystadegaeth. Byddai myfyrwyr yn fy holi ynghylch strategaethau ar gyfer y loteri. Yr oedd fy ateb yn syml: breuddwydiwch am ennill y loteri ond peidiwch â phrynu tocyn. Nid yw prynu tocyn yn gwneud gwahaniaeth i’ch siawns o ennill y jacpot ar unrhyw lefel o arwyddocâd ystadegol. Mae’r slogan ‘efallai mai chi fydd hi’ yn fuddugoliaeth gan farchnata dros rifogrwydd. Os oes rhaid ichi hapchwarae gallwch gael gwell ods mewn casino. Gallwch gael gwell ods hyd yn oed ar un o’r lladron unfraich yn Station Road ym Mae Colwyn. Fodd bynnag, gwyddom fod llawer yn prynu tocynnau loteri, yn rhannol yn y gobaith y byddant yn ennill ond gan wybod, pan gollant, fod yr arian yn mynd at ryw achos da.

I want to discuss the distribution of good cause money. We can all cite good projects that lottery funds have supported. Many are small-scale projects such as the new community drama facilities at Ysgol Brynhyfryd in Ruthin. Some of the bigger projects also represent money wisely invested. The second biggest millennium-funded project has been the creation of the UK national cycle network and I would regard that as an exemplar scheme. It is good for the environment, for health and for our children. It is a pity that the Millennium Commission’s work has been dominated by the dome. John Griffiths was right to point out that this was launched by the Conservatives and perhaps Tarzan’s tent rather than the Millennium Dome would probably be a better name for it. I wish my colleagues had cancelled the project when they had the chance but I understand why they did not. The cancellation costs at that time must have been very high.

Dymunaf drafod dosbarthu arian achosion da. Gallwn oll gyfeirio at brosiectau da y mae cyllid loteri wedi eu cefnogi. Mae llawer yn brosiectau bach fel y cyfleusterau drama cymunedol newydd yn Ysgol Brynhyfryd yn Rhuthun. Mae rhai o’r prosiectau mwy hefyd yn dangos buddsoddi doeth ar arian. Yr ail fwyaf o’r prosiectau a ariannwyd o gronfa’r mileniwm oedd creu rhwydwaith seiclo cenedlaethol y DU ac ystyriwn hynny’n batrwm o gynllun. Mae’n dda i’r amgylchedd, i iechyd ac i’n plant. Mae’n drueni bod gwaith Comisiwn y Mileniwm wedi ei ddominyddu gan y dôm. Yr oedd John Griffiths yn iawn i nodi bod hyn wedi ei lansio gan y Ceidwadwyr ac efallai y byddai pabell Tarzan yn hytrach na Dôm y Mileniwm yn well enw arno. Byddai’n dda gennyf pe bai fy nghydweithwyr wedi diddymu’r prosiect pan oedd cyfle ganddynt ond deallaf pam na wnaethant. Rhaid bod y costau diddymu bryd hynny’n uchel iawn.

Jonathan Morgan spoken in English p. 80

Jonathan Morgan siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 80

Bearing in mind some of the concerns that have been raised this afternoon by Alun Pugh, Richard Edwards, and John Griffiths, and I suspect shared by other Members who will not speak, will they support the amendment that we have tabled to ensure that no more additional money is spent on the Millennium Dome? You condemn the £30 million that was spent because it could be spent in other areas such as good causes and not propping up a white elephant that you want to abolish.

O gofio rhai o’r pryderon a godwyd y prynhawn yma gan Alun Pugh, Richard Edwards a John Griffiths, ac a rennir yr wyf yn amau gan Aelodau eraill na fyddant yn siarad, a wnânt gefnogi’r gwelliant a gyflwynasom i sicrhau na werir mwy o arian ychwanegol ar Ddôm y Mileniwm? Yr ydych yn collfarnu’r £30 miliwn a wariwyd am y gellid ei wario mewn meysydd eraill fel achosion da ac nid yn cynnal eliffant gwyn yr ydych oll am ei ddileu.

Alun Pugh spoken in English p. 80

Alun Pugh siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 80

I have a problem with the technical accuracy of that amendment but I will abstain this afternoon. I hope that the latest £29 million injected into the dome is the last payout and that there will be no more before the shutters are pulled down in December. Lottery funding in Wales should follow the Assembly’s strategic aims: sustainability, combating social exclusion and building healthier communities. Our socially disadvantaged communities are disproportionately heavily purchasers of lottery tickets so it is doubly right that we concentrate lottery-funded projects in these areas. We need to be robust with projects and organisations that do not actively support our aims.

Yr wyf yn amau cywirdeb technegol y gwelliant hwnnw ond byddaf yn ymatal y prynhawn yma. Gobeithiaf mai’r £29 miliwn diweddaraf a chwistrellwyd i’r dôm yw’r taliad olaf ac na fydd rhagor cyn cau’r siop yn Rhagfyr. Dylai cyllid loteri yng Nghymru ddilyn nodau strategol y Cynulliad: cynaliadwyedd, ymladd allgáu cymdeithasol ac adeiladu cymunedau iachach. Mae ein cymunedau sydd o dan anfantais gymdeithasol yn prynu nifer anghymesur o uchel o docynnau loteri felly mae’n iawn am ddau reswm inni grynhoi prosiectau a ariannir gan y loteri yn yr ardaloedd hynny. Mae angen inni ymdrin yn gadarn â phrosiectau a mudiadau nad ydynt yn gweithio tuag at ein nodau.

As an example, I am disappointed that the Wales Millennium Centre is happy to accept lottery and Assembly money but has refused to accept best practice guidelines on smoking. The management seem happy to subject customers, employees and the young people who will live there to the well-documented, cancer-causing hazards of tobacco smoke, the number one cause of premature death in Wales. However, if we can get substantial sums into our disadvantaged communities then maybe, just maybe, someone could persuade me that lotteries do not systematically transfer money from the poor to the well-off.

Er enghraifft, yr wyf yn siomedig bod Canolfan Mileniwm Cymru’n fodlon derbyn arian loteri ac arian y Cynulliad ond ei bod wedi gwrthod derbyn canllawiau arfer gorau ar ysmygu. Ymddengys fod y rheolwyr yn fodlon gorfodi cwsmeriaid, gweithwyr a’r bobl ifanc a fydd yn byw yno i fod yn agored i beryglon hysbys canserachosol mwg tybaco, sef prif achos marwolaeth gynamserol yng Nghymru. Fodd bynnag, os gallwn fynd â symiau sylweddol i gymunedau sydd dan anfantais yna efallai, dim ond efallai, y gallai rhywun fy narbwyllo nad yw loterïau’n trosglwyddo arian yn systematig o’r tlawd i’r cyfoethog.

Jenny Randerson spoken in English p. 80

Jenny Randerson siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 80

I agree with many Members who have spoken this afternoon. It is important that we should look at the way in which lottery funding is distributed. It should go to the poorer communities: you might be surprised to hear me say that in view of the number of people who have taken the opportunity this afternoon to suggest that all the money goes to Cardiff—I am sorry, Cardiff Central—and it is some kind of mecca. However, Cardiff has four of the ten most deprived wards in Wales and it is not a rich area. Let us look at some of the statistics in detail. Cardiff had a 15 per cent success rate in applications in the National Lottery Charities Boards’s main grants compared with Carmarthenshire that had a 42 per cent success rate. Someone mentioned the importance of helping with applications earlier and there is a need for people and organisations in Cardiff to have help with applications. Expenditure from that fund per head in Cardiff over a four-year period was £20.20. This compares badly with expenditure in Powys, which was £53.61. Therefore, we are not getting a good deal in Cardiff from that main grant sector. I support the idea that we ought to get more. From the small grants, Cardiff got the princely sum of 16p per head and we were fourth from the bottom of the national league table for Wales for the amount per head of the population. I will give you one example, which is the list of the constituency-based grants—a sort of health warning on statistics.

Cytunaf â llawer o’r Aelodau a siaradodd y prynhawn yma. Mae’n bwysig inni edrych ar y modd y dosbarthir cyllid loteri. Dylai fynd i’r cymunedau tlotach: efallai y byddwch yn synnu o’m clywed yn dweud hynny yng ngolwg y nifer o bobl a achubodd ar y cyfle y prynhawn yma i awgrymu bod yr holl arian yn mynd i Gaerdydd—mae’n ddrwg gennyf, Canol Caerdydd—a’i fod yn rhyw fath o Fecca. Fodd bynnag, yng Nghaerdydd y mae pedair o’r deg ward fwyaf difreintiedig yng Nghymru ac nid yw’n ardal gyfoethog. Gadewch inni edrych ar rai o’r ystadegau’n fanwl. Cafodd Caerdydd gyfradd llwyddiant o 15 y cant yn y ceisiadau ar gyfer prif grantiau Bwrdd Elusennau’r Loteri Genedlaethol o’i chymharu â Sir Gaerfyrddin a gafodd gyfradd llwyddiant o 42 y cant. Soniodd rhywun am bwysigrwydd helpu gyda cheisiadau’n gynharach ac mae angen cymorth ar bobl a mudiadau yng Nghaerdydd wrth iddynt wneud ceisiadau. Yr oedd y gwariant y pen o’r gronfa honno yng Nghaerdydd dros gyfnod o bedair blynedd yn £20.20. Mae hyn yn cymharu’n wael â gwariant ym Mhowys, sef £53.61. Felly, nid ydym yn cael bargen dda yng Nghaerdydd o’r prif sector grantiau hwnnw. Cefnogaf y syniad y dylem gael mwy. O’r grantiau bach, derbyniodd Caerdydd y swm anrhydeddus o 16c y pen ac yr oeddem yn bedwerydd o waelod y tabl cynghrair cenedlaethol i Gymru o ran y swm fesul pen o’r boblogaeth. Rhoddaf un enghraifft ichi, sef y rhestr o grantiau’n seiliedig ar etholaethau—rhyw fath o rybudd iechyd ar ystadegau.

The constituency list that I am holding is the one for Cardiff Central. There are 41 grants listed here, of which only 11 go to genuine constituency organisations. Four go to organisations that are not in the constituency and have been wrongly placed, 14 go to all-Wales organisations, and 12 go to organisations that cover at least the whole of Cardiff, some of them the whole of south Wales. That tells you how you can get lies, damned lies and statistics.

Y rhestr etholaeth sydd gennyf yn fy llaw yw’r un ar gyfer Canol Caerdydd. Rhestrir 41 o grantiau yma ac, o blith y rhain, dim ond 11 sydd yn mynd i fudiadau etholaeth gwirioneddol. Â pedwar i fudiadau nad ydynt yn yr etholaeth ac a leolwyd yn anghywir, â 14 i fudiadau Cymru gyfan, a 12 i fudiadau sydd yn cynnwys o leiaf y cyfan o Gaerdydd, a rhai ohonynt y cyfan o dde Cymru. Dywed hynny wrthych sut y gallwch gael celwyddau, celwyddau felltith ac ystadegau.

Too much time has been spent this afternoon worrying about where the money is going—everyone quite rightly feels that their pot, their area, their patch does not get enough—and not enough time considering the real problems. One final, real issue that we should tackle is the fact that the Sportlot money that we get in Wales is a fixed percentage every year. We need a couple of years’ money just to pay for Swansea’s swimming pool. That means that the rest of Wales gets virtually nothing for several years. It is time that we re-negotiated on a UK level to ensure that we have a much more flexible approach in Wales to the percentage of the total cake that we get from the Sportlot money and that it is, overall, a much larger slice of the cake.

Treuliwyd gormod o amser y prynhawn yma yn poeni ynghylch i ble y mae’r arian yn mynd—yn gwbl briodol mae pawb yn teimlo nad yw ei bot, ei ardal, ei lecyn yn cael digon—a dim digon o amser yn ystyried y problemau gwirioneddol. Un mater olaf, gwirioneddol y dylem ymdrin ag ef yw’r ffaith bod yr arian Sportlot a gawn yng Nghymru yn ganran wedi’i gosod bob blwyddyn. Mae arnom angen arian ychydig o flynyddoedd dim ond i dalu am bwll nofio Abertawe. Golyga hynny fod gweddill Cymru’n cael bron ddim am sawl blwyddyn. Mae’n bryd inni ailnegodi ar lefel y DU er mwyn sicrhau y cawn ymagwedd fwy hyblyg o lawer yng Nghymru at y ganran o’r deisen gyfan a gawn o arian Sportlot a’i fod, at ei gilydd, yn ddarn llawer mwy o’r deisen.

Finally, a warning. We should recognise the difference between the prestige arts companies that are of regional or national importance from the local bread and butter, day to day lottery grants that do so much to help our constituents. I agree wholeheartedly with Delyth that we need to help the smaller and poorer groups to fill in the forms and take a more proactive attitude to encouraging them to apply for money.

Yn olaf, rhybudd. Dylem gydnabod y gwahaniaeth rhwng y cwmnïau celfyddydau uchel eu bri sydd o bwys rhanbarthol neu genedlaethol a’r grantiau loteri beunyddiol, bara menyn lleol sydd yn gwneud cymaint i helpu ein hetholwyr. Cytunaf yn llwyr â Delyth bod angen inni helpu’r grwpiau llai a thlotach i lenwi’r ffurflenni a bod yn fwy rhagweithiol ynghylch eu hannog i ymgeisio am arian.

Tom Middlehurst spoken in English p. 82

Tom Middlehurst siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 82

I thank Assembly colleagues for their valuable contributions to today’s debate. We have a clear understanding of who distributes lottery funds in Wales and the sort of schemes that have been supported hitherto. I have listened with great interest to the debate. Many common themes run through Members’ contributions. Equality of access to lottery funds, simplifying the application process, the barriers to taking up grants, positive action in support of deprived communities to ensure that they get a fair share and a fair crack of the whip, and sustainability are among the important issues that many Members have raised.

Diolchaf i’m cyd-Aelodau Cynulliad am eu cyfraniadau gwerthfawr i’r ddadl heddiw. Mae gennym ddealltwriaeth glir am bwy sydd yn dosbarthu cyllid loteri yng Nghymru a’r math o gynlluniau a gefnogwyd hyd yn hyn. Gwrandewais gyda diddordeb mawr ar y ddadl. Mae llawer o themâu cyffredin yn rhedeg drwy gyfraniadau’r Aelodau. Mae cydraddoldeb mynediad i gyllid loteri, symleiddio’r broses ymgeisio, y rhwystrau rhag derbyn grantiau, gweithredu cadarnhaol i gefnogi cymunedau difreintiedig i sicrhau eu bod yn cael cyfran deg a chyfle teg, a chynaliadwyedd ymysg y materion pwysig y mae llawer o’r Aelodau wedi eu codi.

John Griffiths asked what actions I proposed to take as a consequence of today’s debate. In anticipation of the likely contributions from Assembly Members, I am convening an early meeting of the lottery distributors to see how they can connect with the Assembly’s views as expressed in the Chamber today and how we can deliver on those major issues and themes that so many of you have identified so fully and eloquently this afternoon. That will be actioned quickly. I also want to look at what we can do at the other end of the spectrum—that is the strategic approach, working with the lottery distributors—to assist potential bidders to secure a successful outcome to their particular lottery bid. I want to work with our potential partners, particularly with local government. I intend to hold early discussions with the Welsh Local Government Association on developing a structure in Wales that can assist the process locally. There are other potential partners with whom we can work locally but the Welsh Local Government Association and the lottery distributors can help us significantly in addressing some of the deficiencies that have been identified in the way we deal with lottery applications.

Gofynnodd John Griffiths am y camau y bwriadaf eu cymryd o ganlyniad i’r ddadl heddiw. Gan ddisgwyl y cyfraniadau tebygol gan Aelodau’r Cynulliad, yr wyf yn cynnull cyfarfod buan o’r dosbarthwyr loteri i weld sut y gallant gysylltu â barn y Cynulliad fel y’i mynegwyd yn y Siambr heddiw a sut y gallwn fynd â’r maen i’r wal ar y materion a’r themâu pwysig y mae cynifer ohonoch wedi eu nodi mor llawn a huawdl y prynhawn yma. Gweithredir ar hynny’n fuan. Dymunaf hefyd edrych ar yr hyn y gallwn ei wneud ym mhen arall y sbectrwm—sef y dull gweithredu strategol, gweithio gyda’r dosbarthwyr loteri—i gynorthwyo darpar ymgeiswyr i sicrhau canlyniad llwyddiannus i’w cais loteri penodol. Hoffwn gydweithio â’n darpar bartneriaid, ac â llywodraeth leol yn arbennig. Bwriadaf gynnal trafodaethau buan gyda Chymdeithas Llywodraeth Leol Cymru ar ddatblygu strwythur yng Nghymru sydd yn gallu cynorthwyo’r broses yn lleol. Mae darpar bartneriaid eraill y gallwn weithio gyda hwy’n lleol ond gall Cymdeithas Llywodraeth Leol Cymru a’r dosbarthwyr loteri roi cymorth sylweddol i ni wrth ymdrin â rhai o’r diffygion a ddynodwyd yn y modd y deliwn â cheisiadau loteri.

There have been many contributions from Members and I cannot deal with them individually in the time allocated. I say to Elin that this Assembly Secretary was previously a man of modest means. I took a decision five years ago to spend my money in what I thought was a better way than purchasing lottery tickets. You are right to say that I have never been a gambler. There is only one winner, as Cynog said, and that is the bookie. I have never done the football pools either. That is my position.

Bu llawer o gyfraniadau gan yr Aelodau ac ni allaf ddelio â hwy’n unigol yn yr amser a ddyrannwyd. Dywedaf wrth Elin fod yr Ysgrifennydd Cynulliad hwn o’r blaen ar incwm cymedrol. Penderfynais bum mlynedd yn ôl wario fy arian mewn modd y credwn ei fod yn well na phrynu tocynnau loteri. Yr ydych yn iawn wrth ddweud na fûm erioed yn hapchwaraewr. Nid oes ond un enillydd, fel y dywedodd Cynog, a’r bwci yw hwnnw. Ni wneuthum y pyllau pêl droed erioed ychwaith. Dyna fy safbwynt.

I accept that the statistics identify possible major distortions between areas, but there is an old saying about damned lies and statistics. Statistics need to be pored over. Some of the major allocations to projects will distort those figures in any one year. I acknowledge readily that that should not detract from our determination to ensure that we get a fairer and better allocation of lottery funding across Wales, with particular regard to the needs of deprived communities and with emphasis on ensuring that we take positive action to secure equality of opportunity for all people in Wales.

Derbyniaf fod yr ystadegau’n dangos gwyrdroadau mawr posibl rhwng ardaloedd, ond mae hen ddywediad am gelwyddau felltith ac ystadegau. Mae angen myfyrio uwchben ystadegau. Bydd rhai o’r dyraniadau mawr i brosiectau’n gwyrdroi’r ffigurau hynny mewn unrhyw flwyddyn unigol. Yr wyf yn barod i gydnabod na ddylai hynny dynnu oddi wrth ein penderfyniad i sicrhau y cawn ddyraniad tecach a gwell o gyllid loteri ledled Cymru, gan roi sylw arbennig i anghenion cymunedau difreintiedig a chyda phwyslais ar sicrhau ein bod yn cymryd camau cadarnhaol i sicrhau cyfle cyfartal i bawb yng Nghymru.

Elin mentioned the licence. That is a matter for the National Lottery Commission and not directly for Government. The commission has a requirement to protect players’ interest and not to encourage excessive gambling—you will be interested to see how it addresses that issue. It is also obliged to act with due propriety—you would expect it to do that—and to maximise the funds available for good causes. I look forward with interest to the decision on the round being considered.

Soniodd Elin am y drwydded. Mae hynny’n fater i Gomisiwn y Loteri Genedlaethol ac nid i’r Llywodraeth yn uniongyrchol. Mae gofyniad ar y comisiwn i warchod buddiant y chwaraewyr ac i beidio ag annog hapchwarae gormodol—bydd o ddiddordeb ichi weld sut y mae’n ymdrin â’r mater hwnnw. Mae dyletswydd arno hefyd i weithredu â gwedduster priodol—disgwyliech iddo wneud hynny—a sicrhau bod y cyllid mwyaf posibl ar gael i achosion da. Edrychaf ymlaen gyda diddordeb at y penderfyniad ar y cylch sydd o dan ystyriaeth.

Jonathan’s obsession with the dome detracts from the importance of our debate and the opportunities that we have to make better use of the available funds in Wales. I gave you my view on the dome, but there are 1.5 million advance bookings and the figure is growing by the day. The general reaction of people who visit the dome is positive. I speak with authority because I have asked many people about it. Jonathan’s speech was marred by his obsession with the dome. We should concentrate on the issues and the opportunities that we have in Wales to make better use of lottery funds.

Mae obsesiwn Jonathan â’r dôm yn tynnu oddi wrth bwysigrwydd ein dadl a’r cyfleoedd sydd gennym i wneud gwell defnydd o’r cyllid sydd ar gael yng Nghymru. Rhoddais ichi fy marn ar y dôm, ond mae 1.5 miliwn o archebion ymlaen llaw ac mae’r ffigur yn cynyddu’n feunyddiol. Mae ymateb cyffredinol y rhai sydd yn ymweld â’r dôm yn gadarnhaol. Siaradaf ag awdurdod oherwydd holais nifer o bobl yn ei gylch. Amharwyd ar araith Jonathan gan ei obsesiwn â’r dôm. Dylem ganolbwyntio ar y materion a’r cyfleoedd sydd gennym yng Nghymru i wneud gwell defnydd o gyllid loteri.

I readily agree with Christine Humphreys’s contribution and the argument for fair allocation of resources. She mentioned that some people are driven to buy lottery tickets by a dream rather than by an obsession with gambling. That is their personal choice.

Cytunaf yn barod â chyfraniad Christine Humphreys a’r ddadl dros ddyrannu adnoddau’n deg. Dywedodd fod rhai’n cael eu gyrru i brynu tocynnau loteri gan freuddwyd yn hytrach nag obsesiwn â hapchwarae. Eu dewis personol yw hynny.

Cynog took a principled position in Parliament but he acknowledges that the lottery is here to stay and that we must make best use of the funds in Wales. He emphasised sustainability. Nick Bourne asked again about the additional funds that have been allocated to the Millennium Dome. In Wales we have had 12 per cent of Millennium Commission funding, which is a significant chunk. He mentioned the important issue of Objective 1 funding. The use of lottery funds will be in addition to any Government funds that are made available. I see no problem in using lottery funds as leverage against raising Objective 1 funding.

Cymerodd Cynog safbwynt egwyddorol yn y Senedd ond y mae’n cydnabod bod y loteri yma i aros a bod yn rhaid inni wneud y defnydd gorau o’r cyllid yng Nghymru. Pwysleisiodd gynaliadwyedd. Gofynnodd Nick Bourne eto ynghylch y cyllid ychwanegol a ddyrannwyd i Ddôm y Mileniwm. Yng Nghymru cawsom 12 y cant o gyllid Comisiwn y Mileniwm, sydd yn ddarn sylweddol. Soniodd am fater pwysig cyllid Amcan 1. Bydd y defnydd o gyllid loteri’n ychwanegol at unrhyw gyllid Llywodraeth a ddarperir. Ni welaf anhawster mewn defnyddio cyllid loteri fel trosol i godi cyllid Amcan 1.

Alison Halford raised the issue of the membership of the New Opportunities Fund. I ensure her that that process is on the First Secretary’s desk, with a recommendation for a Welsh member for the New Opportunities Fund in the UK.

Cododd Alison Halford fater aelodaeth o’r Gronfa Cyfleoedd Newydd. Fe’i sicrhaf fod y broses ar ddesg y Prif Ysgrifennydd, gydag argymhelliad ar gyfer aelod o Gymru i’r Gronfa Cyfleoedd Newydd yn y DU.

Other contributions will be covered in general comments about the big issues, which are sustainability, positive action to support bids from deprived areas in promotion of equality of opportunity, a strategic approach by the lottery distributors, better support for potential bidders and fairer allocation of lottery funds. I will convene an early meeting of the distributors to discuss the decisions that you make today and I will have early discussions with the Welsh Local Government Association on how we can build a more effective partnership to support the communities that it serves as readily as we do.

Ymdrinnir â chyfraniadau eraill mewn sylwadau cyffredinol am y materion mawr, sef cynaliadwyedd, camau cadarnhaol i gefnogi ceisiadau o ardaloedd difreintiedig er mwyn hybu cyfle cyfartal, dull gweithredu strategol gan y dosbarthwyr loteri, gwell cefnogaeth i ymgeiswyr posibl a dyrannu tecach o gyllid loteri. Byddaf yn cynnull cyfarfod buan o’r dosbarthwyr i drafod y penderfyniadau a wnewch heddiw a chaf drafodaethau buan â Chymdeithas Llywodraeth Leol Cymru ynghylch y modd y gallwn adeiladu partneriaeth fwy effeithiol i gefnogi’r cymunedau y mae’n eu gwasanaethu mor barod ag yr ydym ni.

Gwelliant 1 Elin Jones t. 85

Amendment 1 Elin Jones p. 85

DerbyniwydAdopted O blaidFor 50 YmatalAbstain 0 Yn erbynAgainst 0

Derbyniwyd y gwelliant.

Amendment adopted.

Sut y pleidleisiodd yr AelodauHow Members voted
O blaidFor (50)
  • Lorraine Barrett
  • Mick Bates
  • Peter Black
  • Nick Bourne
  • Rosemary Butler
  • Christine Chapman
  • Cynog Dafis
  • Jane Davidson
  • David Davies
  • Geraint Davies
  • Glyn Davies
  • Janet Davies
  • Jocelyn Davies
  • Richard Edwards
  • Delyth Evans
  • Michael German
  • Brian Gibbons
  • William Graham
  • Janice Gregory
  • John Griffiths
  • Christine Gwyther
  • Alison Halford
  • Brian Hancock
  • Christine Humphreys
  • Jane Hutt
  • Pauline Jarman
  • Ann Jones
  • Carwyn Jones
  • Elin Jones
  • Gareth Jones
  • Helen Mary Jones
  • Ieuan Wyn Jones
  • Peter Law
  • David Lloyd
  • John Marek
  • David Melding
  • Tom Middlehurst
  • Jonathan Morgan
  • Lynne Neagle
  • Alun Pugh
  • Jenny Randerson
  • Peter Rogers
  • Janet Ryder
  • Karen Sinclair
  • Gwenda Thomas
  • Owen John Thomas
  • Rhodri Glyn Thomas
  • Dafydd Wigley
  • Kirsty Williams
  • Phil Williams

Gwelliant 2 Jonathan Morgan t. 86

Amendment 2 Jonathan Morgan p. 86

DerbyniwydAdopted O blaidFor 50 YmatalAbstain 1 Yn erbynAgainst 0

Derbyniwyd y gwelliant.

Amendment adopted.

Sut y pleidleisiodd yr AelodauHow Members voted
O blaidFor (50)
  • Lorraine Barrett
  • Mick Bates
  • Peter Black
  • Nick Bourne
  • Rosemary Butler
  • Christine Chapman
  • Cynog Dafis
  • Jane Davidson
  • Andrew Davies
  • David Davies
  • Geraint Davies
  • Glyn Davies
  • Janet Davies
  • Jocelyn Davies
  • Richard Edwards
  • Delyth Evans
  • Michael German
  • Brian Gibbons
  • William Graham
  • Janice Gregory
  • John Griffiths
  • Christine Gwyther
  • Alison Halford
  • Brian Hancock
  • Christine Humphreys
  • Pauline Jarman
  • Ann Jones
  • Carwyn Jones
  • Elin Jones
  • Gareth Jones
  • Helen Mary Jones
  • Ieuan Wyn Jones
  • Peter Law
  • David Lloyd
  • John Marek
  • David Melding
  • Tom Middlehurst
  • Jonathan Morgan
  • Lynne Neagle
  • Alun Pugh
  • Jenny Randerson
  • Peter Rogers
  • Janet Ryder
  • Karen Sinclair
  • Gwenda Thomas
  • Owen John Thomas
  • Rhodri Glyn Thomas
  • Dafydd Wigley
  • Kirsty Williams
  • Phil Williams
YmatalAbstain (1)
  • Jane Hutt

Gwelliant 3 Jonathan Morgan t. 87

Amendment 3 Jonathan Morgan p. 87

DerbyniwydAdopted O blaidFor 29 YmatalAbstain 22 Yn erbynAgainst 0

Derbyniwyd y gwelliant.

Amendment adopted.

Sut y pleidleisiodd yr AelodauHow Members voted
O blaidFor (29)
  • Mick Bates
  • Peter Black
  • Nick Bourne
  • Cynog Dafis
  • David Davies
  • Geraint Davies
  • Glyn Davies
  • Janet Davies
  • Jocelyn Davies
  • Michael German
  • William Graham
  • Brian Hancock
  • Christine Humphreys
  • Pauline Jarman
  • Elin Jones
  • Gareth Jones
  • Helen Mary Jones
  • Ieuan Wyn Jones
  • David Lloyd
  • David Melding
  • Jonathan Morgan
  • Jenny Randerson
  • Peter Rogers
  • Janet Ryder
  • Owen John Thomas
  • Rhodri Glyn Thomas
  • Dafydd Wigley
  • Kirsty Williams
  • Phil Williams
YmatalAbstain (22)
  • Lorraine Barrett
  • Rosemary Butler
  • Christine Chapman
  • Jane Davidson
  • Andrew Davies
  • Richard Edwards
  • Delyth Evans
  • Brian Gibbons
  • Janice Gregory
  • John Griffiths
  • Christine Gwyther
  • Alison Halford
  • Jane Hutt
  • Ann Jones
  • Carwyn Jones
  • Peter Law
  • John Marek
  • Tom Middlehurst
  • Lynne Neagle
  • Alun Pugh
  • Karen Sinclair
  • Gwenda Thomas

Gwelliant 4 Elin Jones t. 87

Amendment 4 Elin Jones p. 87

DerbyniwydAdopted O blaidFor 51 YmatalAbstain 0 Yn erbynAgainst 0

Derbyniwyd y gwelliant.

Amendment adopted.

Sut y pleidleisiodd yr AelodauHow Members voted
O blaidFor (51)
  • Lorraine Barrett
  • Mick Bates
  • Peter Black
  • Nick Bourne
  • Rosemary Butler
  • Christine Chapman
  • Cynog Dafis
  • Jane Davidson
  • Andrew Davies
  • David Davies
  • Geraint Davies
  • Glyn Davies
  • Janet Davies
  • Jocelyn Davies
  • Richard Edwards
  • Delyth Evans
  • Michael German
  • Brian Gibbons
  • William Graham
  • Janice Gregory
  • John Griffiths
  • Christine Gwyther
  • Alison Halford
  • Brian Hancock
  • Christine Humphreys
  • Jane Hutt
  • Pauline Jarman
  • Ann Jones
  • Carwyn Jones
  • Elin Jones
  • Gareth Jones
  • Helen Mary Jones
  • Ieuan Wyn Jones
  • Peter Law
  • David Lloyd
  • John Marek
  • David Melding
  • Tom Middlehurst
  • Jonathan Morgan
  • Lynne Neagle
  • Alun Pugh
  • Jenny Randerson
  • Peter Rogers
  • Janet Ryder
  • Karen Sinclair
  • Gwenda Thomas
  • Owen John Thomas
  • Rhodri Glyn Thomas
  • Dafydd Wigley
  • Kirsty Williams
  • Phil Williams

Gwelliant 5 Elin Jones t. 88

Amendment 5 Elin Jones p. 88

DerbyniwydAdopted O blaidFor 51 YmatalAbstain 0 Yn erbynAgainst 0

Derbyniwyd y gwelliant.

Amendment adopted.

Sut y pleidleisiodd yr AelodauHow Members voted
O blaidFor (51)
  • Lorraine Barrett
  • Mick Bates
  • Peter Black
  • Nick Bourne
  • Rosemary Butler
  • Christine Chapman
  • Cynog Dafis
  • Jane Davidson
  • Andrew Davies
  • David Davies
  • Geraint Davies
  • Glyn Davies
  • Janet Davies
  • Jocelyn Davies
  • Richard Edwards
  • Delyth Evans
  • Michael German
  • Brian Gibbons
  • William Graham
  • Janice Gregory
  • John Griffiths
  • Christine Gwyther
  • Alison Halford
  • Brian Hancock
  • Christine Humphreys
  • Jane Hutt
  • Pauline Jarman
  • Ann Jones
  • Carwyn Jones
  • Elin Jones
  • Gareth Jones
  • Helen Mary Jones
  • Ieuan Wyn Jones
  • Peter Law
  • David Lloyd
  • John Marek
  • David Melding
  • Tom Middlehurst
  • Jonathan Morgan
  • Lynne Neagle
  • Alun Pugh
  • Jenny Randerson
  • Peter Rogers
  • Janet Ryder
  • Karen Sinclair
  • Gwenda Thomas
  • Owen John Thomas
  • Rhodri Glyn Thomas
  • Dafydd Wigley
  • Kirsty Williams
  • Phil Williams

Gwelliant 6 Christine Humphreys t. 89

Amendment 6 Christine Humphreys p. 89

DerbyniwydAdopted O blaidFor 51 YmatalAbstain 0 Yn erbynAgainst 0

Derbyniwyd y gwelliant.

Amendment adopted.

Sut y pleidleisiodd yr AelodauHow Members voted
O blaidFor (51)
  • Lorraine Barrett
  • Mick Bates
  • Peter Black
  • Nick Bourne
  • Rosemary Butler
  • Christine Chapman
  • Cynog Dafis
  • Jane Davidson
  • Andrew Davies
  • David Davies
  • Geraint Davies
  • Glyn Davies
  • Janet Davies
  • Jocelyn Davies
  • Richard Edwards
  • Delyth Evans
  • Michael German
  • Brian Gibbons
  • William Graham
  • Janice Gregory
  • John Griffiths
  • Christine Gwyther
  • Alison Halford
  • Brian Hancock
  • Christine Humphreys
  • Jane Hutt
  • Pauline Jarman
  • Ann Jones
  • Carwyn Jones
  • Elin Jones
  • Gareth Jones
  • Helen Mary Jones
  • Ieuan Wyn Jones
  • Peter Law
  • David Lloyd
  • John Marek
  • David Melding
  • Tom Middlehurst
  • Jonathan Morgan
  • Lynne Neagle
  • Alun Pugh
  • Jenny Randerson
  • Peter Rogers
  • Janet Ryder
  • Karen Sinclair
  • Gwenda Thomas
  • Owen John Thomas
  • Rhodri Glyn Thomas
  • Dafydd Wigley
  • Kirsty Williams
  • Phil Williams

Cynnig wedi’i ddiwygio Tom Middlehurst t. 91

Amended motion Tom Middlehurst p. 91

DerbyniwydAdopted O blaidFor 52 YmatalAbstain 0 Yn erbynAgainst 0

Derbyniwyd y cynnig wedi'i ddiwygio.

Amended motion adopted.

Sut y pleidleisiodd yr AelodauHow Members voted
O blaidFor (52)
  • Lorraine Barrett
  • Mick Bates
  • Peter Black
  • Nick Bourne
  • Rosemary Butler
  • Christine Chapman
  • Cynog Dafis
  • Jane Davidson
  • Andrew Davies
  • David Davies
  • Geraint Davies
  • Glyn Davies
  • Janet Davies
  • Jocelyn Davies
  • Richard Edwards
  • Sue Essex
  • Delyth Evans
  • Michael German
  • Brian Gibbons
  • William Graham
  • Janice Gregory
  • John Griffiths
  • Christine Gwyther
  • Alison Halford
  • Brian Hancock
  • Christine Humphreys
  • Jane Hutt
  • Pauline Jarman
  • Ann Jones
  • Carwyn Jones
  • Elin Jones
  • Gareth Jones
  • Helen Mary Jones
  • Ieuan Wyn Jones
  • Peter Law
  • David Lloyd
  • John Marek
  • David Melding
  • Tom Middlehurst
  • Jonathan Morgan
  • Lynne Neagle
  • Alun Pugh
  • Jenny Randerson
  • Peter Rogers
  • Janet Ryder
  • Karen Sinclair
  • Gwenda Thomas
  • Owen John Thomas
  • Rhodri Glyn Thomas
  • Dafydd Wigley
  • Kirsty Williams
  • Phil Williams

Dafydd Elis-Thomas Y Llywydd siaradwyd yn Gymraeg t. 92

Dafydd Elis-Thomas The Presiding Officer spoken in Welsh p. 92

Dyna ddiwedd busnes heddiw. Diolchaf i’r Aelodau am eu cydweithrediad.

That is the end of today’s business. I thank Members for their co-operation.

Daeth y cyfarfod i ben am 5.27 p.m.

The session ended at 5.27 p.m.