Cymraeg

Cynulliad Cenedlaethol CymruNational Assembly for Wales · Cyfarfod llawnPlenary sitting

Dydd Mercher 28 Mehefin 2000

Wednesday 28 June 2000

DechreuoddMet 14:00 · Daeth i benRose 17:31

Gweld y Cofnod (PDF)View the Record (PDF)

Heb ei wirio â llaw etoNot yet checked by hand

CynnwysContents

  1. 3Datganiad gan y Dirprwy LywyddStatement by the Deputy Presiding Officer
  2. 3Cwestiynau i’r Ysgrifennydd Addysg a PhlantQuestions to the Secretary for Education and Children
    1. 3Strategaeth ar gyfer Ysgolion GwledigA Strategy for Rural Schools
    2. 6Gwerslyfrau ac Adnoddau Eraill (Y Cwricwlwm Cenedlaethol)Textbooks and Other Resources (The National Curriculum)
    3. 9Papur Gwyrdd ar Ariannu YsgolionGreen Paper on School Funding
  3. 11Cwestiynau i’r Ysgrifennydd Amaethyddiaeth a Datblygu GwledigQuestions to the Secretary for Agriculture and Rural Development
    1. 11Dosbarthiad y Gweithlu yng Nghefn GwladRural Workforce Classification
    2. 13Nod Ansawdd CymreigWelsh Quality Standard Mark
    3. 15Polisi Amaeth a Chefn Gwlad yng NghymruAgriculture and Rural Policy in Wales
  4. 17Pwyntiau o DrefnPoints of Order
  5. 23Cymeradwyo Gorchymyn Cynulliad Cenedlaethol Cymru (Trosglwyddo Swyddogaethau) (Amrywio) 2000 (Rhan 2 y Gorchymyn yn dibynnu arGymeradwyaeth Seneddol)
  6. 23Approval of The National Assembly for Wales (Transfer of Functions)(Variations) Order 2000 (Part 2 Order subject to Parliamentary Approval) 1 bleidlais1 vote
  7. 29Y Pwyllgorau RhanbarthThe Regional Committees 2 o bleidleisiau2 votes
  8. 55Yr Iaith GymraegThe Welsh Language
  9. 76Cynnig TrefniadolProcedural Motion 1 bleidlais1 vote
  10. 79Dadl Fer: Awdurdod Iechyd Bro TafShort Debate: Bro Taf Health Authority

PleidleisiauVotes

PleidlaisVoteO blaidForYmatalAbstainYn erbynAgainstCanlyniadResult
Approval of The National Assembly for Wales (Transfer of Functions)(Variations) Order 2000 (Part 2 Order subject to Parliamentary Approval)
CynnigMotion4600DerbyniwydAdopted
Y Pwyllgorau RhanbarthThe Regional Committees
Gwelliant 1Amendment 13644DerbyniwydAdopted
CynnigMotion4130DerbyniwydAdopted
Cynnig TrefniadolProcedural Motion
Cynnig trefniadolProcedural motionDrwy ddangos dwyloShow of handsDerbyniwydAdopted

TrafodionProceedings

Cyfarfu’r Cynulliad am 2 p.m. gyda’r Dirprwy Lywydd yn y Gadair.

The Assembly met at 2 p.m. with the Deputy Presiding Officer in the Chair.

Datganiad gan y Dirprwy Lywydd

Statement by the Deputy Presiding Officer

Jane Davidson The Deputy Presiding Officer spoken in English p. 3

Jane Davidson Y Dirprwy Lywydd siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 3

I call the National Assembly for Wales to order. Members will be aware that we are pressed for time this afternoon, and I therefore ask Members to be brief in making their contributions. I do not intend to impose a time limit at this stage, but we may have to specify appropriate timings during the session, depending on the flow of business.

Galwaf Gynulliad Cenedlaethol Cymru i drefn. Bydd Aelodau’n ymwybodol fod amser yn brin y prynhawn yma, a gofynnaf felly i Aelodau fod yn gryno wrth wneud eu cyfraniadau. Ni fwriadaf osod terfyn amser ar hyn o bryd, ond efallai y bydd yn rhaid inni bennu amseriadau priodol yn ystod y sesiwn, yn dibynnu ar lif y busnes.

Cwestiynau i’r Ysgrifennydd Addysg a Phlant

Questions to the Secretary for Education and Children

Jane Davidson The Deputy Presiding Officer spoken in English p. 3

Jane Davidson Y Dirprwy Lywydd siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 3

Since Owen John Thomas, David Melding and Alun Cairns are absent, I call on Christine Humphreys to ask question 4.

Gan fod Owen John Thomas, David Melding ac Alun Cairns yn absennol, galwaf ar Christine Humphreys i ofyn cwestiwn 4.

Strategaeth ar gyfer Ysgolion Gwledig

A Strategy for Rural Schools

Q4 Christine Humphreys spoken in English p. 3

C4 Christine Humphreys siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 3

Does the Secretary for Education and Children have any plans to announce a strategy for rural schools? (OAQ6042)

A oes gan yr Ysgrifennydd Addysg a Phlant unrhyw gynlluniau i gyhoeddi strategaeth ar gyfer ysgolion gwledig? (OAQ6042)

Rosemary Butler The Secretary for Education and Children spoken in English p. 3

Rosemary Butler Yr Ysgrifennydd Addysg a Phlant siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 3

I accept the importance of rural schools to their communities. However, the provision of schools is a matter for local authorities, which are best placed to make decisions on local issues. Through their school organisational plans, they need to assess supply and demand for school places.

Derbyniaf bwysigrwydd ysgolion gwledig i’w cymunedau. Fodd bynnag, mater i awdurdodau lleol yw darparu ysgolion, gan mai hwy sydd yn y sefyllfa orau i wneud penderfyniadau ar faterion lleol. Drwy eu cynlluniau trefniadaeth ysgolion, mae angen iddynt asesu’r cyflenwad a’r galw am leoedd ysgol.

Christine Humphreys spoken in English p. 3

Christine Humphreys siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 3

Rural schools in England enjoy support from the small school support fund set up by the Department for Education and Employment. This is in addition to the role played by the local education authorities, which are often under increasing pressure to close small schools in the face of mounting costs and budget cuts. Do you agree that in light of the large number of rural schools in Wales and their importance to the communities that they serve, the Assembly should develop a national policy to protect small and rural schools in Wales before these valuable rural community assets are lost?

Mae ysgolion gwledig yn Lloegr yn mwynhau cefnogaeth o’r gronfa gynnal ysgolion bychain a sefydlwyd gan yr Adran Addysg a Chyflogaeth. Mae hyn yn ychwanegol at y rôl a gymerir gan yr awdurdodau addysg lleol, sydd yn aml dan bwysau cynyddol i gau ysgolion bychain yn wyneb costau cynyddol a thoriadau cyllideb. Yn wyneb y nifer fawr o ysgolion gwledig yng Nghymru a’u pwysigrwydd i’r cymunedau a wasanaethant, a gytunwch y dylai’r Cynulliad ddatblygu polisi cenedlaethol i warchod ysgolion bach a gwledig yng Nghymru cyn i’r asedau gwerthfawr hyn i gymunedau gwledig gael eu colli?

Rosemary Butler spoken in English p. 4

Rosemary Butler siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 4

It is obviously a highly emotive issue and quite rightly so. However, the small schools initiative in England is different from what happens in Wales. In England a small school is classed as a school with 200 pupils. If that was the case in Wales, almost every primary school would be classed as a small school. I have to consider the educational value of what is being proposed if there are proposals to alter and amend schools. The local authority must consider the other issue to which you referred: the community activities and the value of the school in that particular community.

Mae’n amlwg yn fater sydd yn ysgogi teimladau cryf, a digon teg yw hynny. Fodd bynnag, mae’r cynllun ysgolion bychain yn Lloegr yn wahanol i’r hyn sydd yn digwydd yng Nghymru. Yn Lloegr ysgol fach yw ysgol â 200 o ddisgyblion. Os mai dyna oedd yr achos yng Nghymru, byddai bron bob ysgol gynradd wedi’i dosbarthu’n ysgol fach. Mae’n rhaid imi ystyried gwerth addysgol yr hyn a gynigir os oes cynigion i newid a diwygio ysgolion. Rhaid i’r awdurdod lleol ystyried y mater arall y cyfeiriasoch ato: sef gweithgareddau’r gymuned a gwerth yr ysgol yn y gymuned arbennig honno.

Nick Bourne spoken in English p. 4

Nick Bourne siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 4

It causes great resentment among parents that they do not have a real say when there is a school closure decision. The merger of Bwlch-y-groes and Tegryn schools in Pembrokeshire has resulted in the closure of Bwlch-y-groes. Will you consider the importance of a rural schools strategy and setting out guidelines nationally so that we know the national position and involve parents more?

Mae’n achosi cryn ddrwgdeimlad ymhlith rhieni nad oes ganddynt lais gwirioneddol pan benderfynir cau ysgol. O ganlyniad i gyfuno ysgolion Bwlch-y-groes a Thegryn yn Sir Benfro, caewyd Bwlch-y-groes. A ystyriwch bwysigrwydd strategaeth ysgolion gwledig a gosod canllawiau cenedlaethol er mwyn inni gael gwybod y sefyllfa genedlaethol a chynnwys rhieni yn fwy?

Rosemary Butler spoken in English p. 4

Rosemary Butler siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 4

The decision to close, amalgamate or alter schools is a local authority decision. It then goes out to consultation. If there are any objections, then it comes to the Assembly for a decision and the Assembly delegates the decision to myself. I assure you that I do not make these decisions lightly and that I consider them carefully. I ensure that I have all the information and I ask for more information if necessary. Since I have been in this post, Cilgerran and Manordeifi schools in Pembrokeshire have amalgamated into one school. I recently made a decision to close Bwlch-y-groes and Tegryn and amalgamate the two schools on a new school site at Tegryn. The decision was welcomed by some, but not by others. It was not an easy decision to make, but I made it. From an educational point of view, those children will be served better in a school with good facilities.

Penderfyniad awdurdod lleol yw’r penderfyniad i gau, cyfuno neu newid ysgolion. Eir allan i ymgynghori arno wedyn. Os ceir unrhyw wrthwynebiad, yna daw i’r Cynulliad i’w benderfynu ac mae’r Cynulliad yn dirprwyo’r penderfyniad hwnnw i mi. Fe’ch sicrhaf na wnaf y penderfyniadau hyn yn ysgafn ac y rhoddaf ystyriaeth ofalus iddynt. Gwnaf yn siŵr fod yr holl wybodaeth gennyf a gofynnaf am ragor o wybodaeth os oes angen. Ers imi fod yn y swydd hon, cyfunwyd ysgolion Cilgerran a Manordeifi yn Sir Benfro yn un ysgol. Gwneuthum benderfyniad yn ddiweddar i gau Bwlch-y-groes a Thegryn ac uno’r ddwy ysgol ar safle ysgol newydd yn Nhegryn. Croesawyd y penderfyniad gan rai rai, ond nid gan eraill. Nid oedd yn benderfyniad hawdd i’w wneud, ond fe’i gwneuthum. O safbwynt addysgol, caiff y plant hynny well darpariaeth mewn ysgol â chyfleusterau da.

Nick Bourne spoken in English p. 5

Nick Bourne siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 5

And the strategy?

A’r strategaeth?

Rosemary Butler spoken in English p. 5

Rosemary Butler siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 5

As I said earlier, such a decision should be made at the local level. However, as you are aware, the Pre-16 Education Committee is undertaking a review of surplus and unfilled places. That is starting in the autumn and will continue until the spring. It will provide interesting information. It was interesting that schools in urban rather than rural areas represented the majority of spare and unfilled places in the initial trawl. Therefore, that issue needs to be considered throughout Wales. We must differentiate between surplus places and unfilled places.

Fel y dywedais yn gynharach, penderfyniad a ddylai gael ei wneud ar lefel leol ydyw. Fodd bynnag, fel y gwyddoch, mae’r Pwyllgor Addysg Cyn-16 yn cynnal adolygiad o leoedd dros ben a lleoedd heb eu llenwi. Bydd hynny’n dechrau yn yr hydref ac yn parhau tan y gwanwyn. Bydd yn darparu gwybodaeth ddiddorol. Yr oedd yn ddiddorol mai ysgolion mewn ardaloedd trefol yn hytrach na gwledig oedd yn y mwyafrif o leoedd dros ben pan wnaethpwyd y chwiliad cyntaf am leoedd dros ben a heb eu llenwi. Felly, dylid ystyried y mater drwy Gymru gyfan. Rhaid inni wahaniaethu rhwng lleoedd dros ben a lleoedd heb eu llenwi.

Richard Edwards spoken in English p. 5

Richard Edwards siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 5

Both the schools that you mentioned are in my constituency, Preseli Pembrokeshire. As you know, I have been calling for a rural schools strategy since I was elected to the Assembly. It is a matter of national interest and not for the local authority concerned. Rural communities have more in common with each other than they necessarily have with other communities, whatever local authority area they happen to be in. I urge you, Rosemary, to think again about having a dedicated rural schools strategy for Wales.

Mae’r ddwy ysgol a enwyd gennych yn f’etholaeth i, Preseli Sir Benfro. Fel y gwyddoch, bûm yn galw am strategaeth ysgolion gwledig ers imi gael fy ethol i’r Cynulliad. Mae’n fater o ddiddordeb cenedlaethol ac nid i’r awdurdod lleol dan sylw yn unig. Mae gan gymunedau gwledig fwy yn gyffredin â’i gilydd nag sydd ganddynt o reidrwydd â chymunedau eraill, ym mha ardal awdurdod lleol bynnag y digwyddant fod. Fe’ch anogaf, Rosemary, i feddwl eto ynghylch cael strategaeth ysgolion gwledig benodol i Gymru.

Rosemary Butler spoken in English p. 5

Rosemary Butler siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 5

As I mentioned, the work to be undertaken by the Pre-16 Education Committee will be interesting. Guidelines could come from that. We could issue guidelines to local authorities about what they should take into account when they make decisions. We have powers devolved from Westminster and I do not think that we have any right to take from local authorities powers that are already devolved to them. I feel strongly about that. When we have the figures and when our work is completed next spring we can create guidelines. That means that the same standards and guidelines will be taken into account when alterations are made to schools across Wales. I strongly believe that it is for local authorities to make those decisions.

Fel y soniais, bydd y gwaith a wneir gan y Pwyllgor Addysg Cyn-16 yn ddiddorol. Gallai canllawiau ddeillio o hynny. Gallem gyhoeddi canllawiau i awdurdodau lleol ynghylch beth y dylent ei ystyried wrth wneud penderfyniadau. Mae gennym bwerau wedi eu datganoli o San Steffan ac ni chredaf fod gennym unrhyw hawliau i gymryd pwerau oddi wrth awdurdodau lleol sydd eisoes wedi’u datganoli iddynt. Teimlaf yn gryf am hynny. Pan fydd y ffigurau gennym a’n gwaith wedi’i gwblhau y gwanwyn nesaf, gallwn greu canllawiau. Mae hynny’n golygu y caiff yr un safonau a chanllawiau eu hystyried pan wneir newidiadau i ysgolion ar hyd a lled Cymru. Credaf yn gryf mai mater i awdurdodau lleol yw gwneud y penderfyniadau hynny.

Elin Jones siaradwyd yn Gymraeg t. 6

Elin Jones spoken in Welsh p. 6

A fyddai’r Ysgrifennydd yn barod, wrth ystyried canllawiau, i edrych nid yn unig ar gostau rhedeg ysgol wledig ond hefyd ar rôl yr ysgol wledig honno a’i hadeilad yn y gymuned?

Would the Secretary be willing, when considering guidelines, to look not only at the costs of running a rural school but also at the role of that rural school and its building in the community?

Rosemary Butler spoken in English p. 6

Rosemary Butler siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 6

Costs come into consideration and I ask for information on the school’s role in the community. At present, it is a decision for the local authority and community. I assume that they would take on board the school’s role in the community and its possible value to that community. The work that I mentioned will return to the Assembly to be debated in Plenary. We can then draft guidelines and move forward. As Assembly Members, I hope that you talk to your local authorities about the community value of these rural schools before those authorities make their decisions.

Mae costau’n cael eu hystyried a gofynnaf am wybodaeth am rôl yr ysgol yn y gymuned. Ar hyn o bryd, penderfyniad i’r awdurdod lleol a’r gymuned ydyw. Yr wyf yn cymryd y byddent yn ystyried rôl yr ysgol yn y gymuned a’i gwerth posibl i’r gymuned honno. Daw’r gwaith a grybwyllais yn ôl i’r Cynulliad i’w ddadlau mewn Cyfarfod Llawn. Bryd hynny gallwn lunio canllawiau a symud ymlaen. Fel Aelodau o’r Cynulliad, gobeithiaf y byddwch yn siarad â’ch awdurdodau lleol ynglŷn â gwerth cymunedol unrhyw rai o’r ysgolion gwledig hyn cyn i’r awdurdodau hynny wneud eu penderfyniadau.

Jane Davidson The Deputy Presiding Officer spoken in English p. 6

Jane Davidson Y Dirprwy Lywydd siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 6

As Owen John Thomas is now present, we will take question 1.

Gan fod Owen John Thomas yn bresennol bellach, cymerwn gwestiwn 1.

Gwerslyfrau ac Adnoddau Eraill (Y Cwricwlwm Cenedlaethol)

Textbooks and Other Resources (The National Curriculum)

Q1 Owen John Thomas spoken in Welsh and English p. 6

C1 Owen John Thomas siaradwyd yn Gymraeg ac yn Saesneg t. 6

What action is Rosemary Butler taking to ensure the availability of textbooks and other resources required by teachers to meet the specific needs of the national curriculum in Wales? (OAQ6038)

yn Saesneg Beth mae Rosemary Butler yn ei wneud i sicrhau bod gwerslyfrau ac adnoddau eraill gofynnol ar gael i athrawon i gwrdd ag anghenion penodol y cwricwlwm cenedlaethol yng Nghymru? (OAQ6038)

Diolch, Ddirprwy Lywydd, am fod mor hael â chaniatáu imi ofyn fy nghwestiwn.

in Welsh Thank you, Deputy Presiding Officer, for being so kind in allowing me to ask my question.

Nick Bourne a gododd—

Nick Bourne rose—

Jenny Randerson a gododd—

Jenny Randerson rose—

Jane Davidson The Deputy Presiding Officer spoken in English p. 6

Jane Davidson Y Dirprwy Lywydd siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 6

Order. Any points of order will be taken after questions.

Trefn. Cymerir unrhyw bwyntiau o drefn ar ôl y cwestiynau.

Nick Bourne spoken in English p. 6

Nick Bourne siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 6

This is contrary to our usual procedure on questions. If Members have missed—

Mae hyn yn groes i’n trefn arferol ar gwestiynau. Os yw Aelodau wedi colli—

Jenny Randerson spoken in English p. 6

Jenny Randerson siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 6

Yesterday—

Ddoe—

Jane Davidson The Deputy Presiding Officer spoken in English p. 7

Jane Davidson Y Dirprwy Lywydd siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 7

Order. I took advice from the office and was told that this is what we have done previously. [ASSEMBLY MEMBERS: ‘No.’] Order. We will take points of order after questions.

Trefn. Cymerais gyngor gan y swyddfa a dywedwyd wrthyf mai dyma a wnaethom o’r blaen. [AELODAU’R CYNULLIAD: ‘Na.’] Trefn. Cymerwn bwyntiau o drefn ar ôl y cwestiynau.

Rosemary Butler spoken in English p. 7

Rosemary Butler siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 7

This is an important point. A wide range of material already exists. In addition, as part of its Assembly remit, ACCAC, the Qualifications, Curriculum and Assessment Authority for Wales, commissions Welsh-medium and bilingual classroom materials. The current commissioning strategy extends to 2003 and covers all aspects of the curriculum in Wales.

Mae hwn yn bwynt pwysig. Mae amrediad eang o ddeunydd yn bodoli eisoes. Yn ogystal, fel rhan o’r cylch gwaith a roddwyd iddo gan y Cynulliad, mae ACCAC, Awdurdod Cymwysterau, Cwricwlwm ac Asesu Cymru, yn comisiynu deunyddiau Cymraeg a dwyieithog i’r ystafell ddosbarth. Mae’r strategaeth gomisiynu gyfredol yn ymestyn hyd at 2003 ac yn ymdrin â holl agweddau’r cwricwlwm yng Nghymru.

Owen John Thomas spoken in English p. 7

Owen John Thomas siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 7

While ACCAC’s leaders spend much of their time running back and forth to London to seek the advice and follow the lead of the equivalent English body, the Qualifications and Curriculum Authority, does Rosemary Butler agree that it is unlikely that the schools of Wales will ever get textbooks and resources to meet their distinctive needs? Will she remind ACCAC that its function is to give national guidance, not to replicate the English national curriculum in Wales?

Tra bo arweinwyr ACCAC yn treulio llawer o’u hamser yn rhedeg yn ôl a blaen i Lundain i geisio cyngor a dilyn arweiniad y corff Seisnig cyfatebol, yr Awdurdod Cymwysterau a Chwricwlwm, a ydyw Rosemary Butler yn cytuno ei bod yn annhebygol y caiff ysgolion Cymru fyth werslyfrau ac adnoddau i gwrdd â’u hanghenion arbennig? A wnaiff hi atgoffa ACCAC mai ei swyddogaeth yw rhoi arweiniad cenedlaethol, ac nid atgynhyrchu’r cwricwlwm cenedlaethol Seisnig yng Nghymru?

Rosemary Butler spoken in English p. 7

Rosemary Butler siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 7

I dispute your suggestion that ACCAC leaders are riding up and down on the train to London to get advice from England. [Interruption.] I am sorry, Deputy Presiding Officer. It is difficult to continue due to the noise in the Chamber.

Gwrthodaf eich awgrym fod arweinwyr ACCAC yn teithio i fyny ac i lawr ar y trên i Lundain i gael cyngor o Loegr. [Torri ar draws.] Mae’n ddrwg gennyf, Ddirprwy Lywydd. Mae’n anodd mynd ymlaen oherwydd y sŵn yn y Siambr.

Jane Davidson The Deputy Presiding Officer spoken in English p. 7

Jane Davidson Y Dirprwy Lywydd siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 7

Order. Please allow the Secretary to respond.

Trefn. Caniatewch i’r Ysgrifennydd ymateb, os gwelwch yn dda.

Rosemary Butler spoken in English p. 7

Rosemary Butler siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 7

If good work is being done on either side of the border, it should be taken on board. Owen John Thomas’s suggestion that we are only following slavishly in English footsteps is incorrect. Much good work has been done—Owen John Thomas is shaking his head but I disagree entirely with him—to provide high quality resources for teaching the Curriculum Cymreig in Wales. This year, £1.3 million is available in ACCAC’s commissioning programme. The work that it commissions is only carried out following consultation with needs identification panels. This ensures that teachers in Wales can indicate where there may be holes in the provision. ACCAC then fills those holes.

Os oes gwaith da’n cael ei wneud ar y naill ochr i’r ffin neu’r llall, dylid manteisio arno. Mae awgrym Owen John Thomas mai dim ond dilyn yn slafaidd yn ôl traed Lloegr yr ydym yn anghywir. Mae llawer o waith da wedi’i wneud—mae Owen John Thomas yn ysgwyd ei ben ond anghytunaf yn llwyr ag ef—i ddarparu adnoddau o ansawdd uchel ar gyfer dysgu’r Cwricwlwm Cymreig yng Nghymru. Eleni, mae £1.3 miliwn ar gael yn rhaglen gomisiynu ACCAC. Dim ond ar ôl ymgynghori â phanelau adnabod anghenion y cyflawnir y gwaith a gomisiynir ganddo. Mae hyn yn sicrhau y gall athrawon yng Nghymru ddangos ble mae bylchau yn y ddarpariaeth o bosibl. Wedyn bydd ACCAC yn llenwi’r bylchau hynny.

William Graham spoken in English p. 8

William Graham siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 8

Can the Secretary assure us that sufficient funds will be made available to ensure that necessary teaching aids are available to all schools in Wales, especially for teaching the new A level syllabus in September?

A all yr Ysgrifennydd roi sicrwydd inni y darperir arian digonol i sicrhau bod cymhorthion dysgu angenrheidiol ar gael i bob ysgol yng Nghymru, yn enwedig ar gyfer dysgu’r maes llafur Safon Uwch newydd ym mis Medi?

Rosemary Butler spoken in English p. 8

Rosemary Butler siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 8

As Chair of the Pre-16 Education Committee, William will be aware that we have put additional money into education in Wales to take into account the additional burdens that schools are taking on. As far as I am aware, sufficient resources are available for teaching the new curriculum from September.

Fel Cadeirydd y Pwyllgor Addysg Cyn-16, bydd William yn ymwybodol ein bod wedi rhoi arian ychwanegol i mewn i addysg yng Nghymru er mwyn cydnabod y beichiau ychwanegol y mae ysgolion yn ymgymryd â hwy. Hyd y gwn i, mae digon o adnoddau ar gael ar gyfer dysgu’r cwricwlwm newydd o fis Medi ymlaen.

Jenny Randerson spoken in English p. 8

Jenny Randerson siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 8

Schools need up-to-date laboratory facilities as well as other resources. In the past, money has gone from the Assembly to local authorities for the provision of laboratories. What follow-up work occurs to ensure that what is envisaged when the grants are given is carried out, and carried out to Best Value standards?

Mae ar ysgolion angen y cyfleusterau labordy diweddaraf yn ogystal ag adnoddau eraill. Yn y gorffennol, rhoddodd y Cynulliad arian i awdurdodau lleol ar gyfer darparu labordai. Pa ddilyniant sydd yn digwydd er mwyn sicrhau y cyflawnir yr hyn a ragwelwyd wrth roi’r grantiau, a’i gyflawni i safonau Gwerth Gorau?

Rosemary Butler spoken in English p. 8

Rosemary Butler siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 8

It is important that people get the right resources—not only books and information technology equipment, but laboratories in particular. If money for laboratories has been given through a grant, officials within the department will follow that up to ensure that the grant has been spent on that particular project. However, if money for laboratories comes out of the rate support grant, which is the general fund that goes to local authorities, it is up to local authorities to decide how they spend that. Let me know if you have examples. Anecdotal evidence is good for storytelling but it does not make for good follow-ups. I want hard facts. If you have hard facts, let me know.

Mae’n bwysig i bobl gael yr adnoddau iawn—nid dim ond llyfrau ac offer technoleg gwybodaeth, ond labordai yn arbennig. Os rhoddwyd arian ar gyfer labordai drwy grant, bydd swyddogion o fewn yr adran yn ei arolygu ac yn sicrhau bod y grant wedi’i wario ar y prosiect arbennig hwnnw. Fodd bynnag, os daw arian ar gyfer labordai allan o’r grant cynnal y dreth, sef y cyllid cyffredinol a aiff i awdurdodau lleol, mater i’r awdurdodau lleol yw penderfynu sut y maent am wario hwnnw. Rhowch wybod imi os oes gennych enghreifftiau. Mae tystiolaeth anecdotaidd yn dda ar gyfer straeon ond nid yw’n arwain at ddilyniant da. Mae arnaf eisiau ffeithiau caled. Os oes gennych ffeithiau caled, rhowch wybod imi.

Jane Davidson The Deputy Presiding Officer spoken in English p. 8

Jane Davidson Y Dirprwy Lywydd siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 8

As David Melding is now present, we will take question 2.

Gan fod David Melding yn bresennol erbyn hyn, cymerwn gwestiwn 2.

Papur Gwyrdd ar Ariannu Ysgolion

Green Paper on School Funding

Q2 David Melding spoken in English p. 9

C2 David Melding siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 9

Will Rosemary Butler outline the contribution that the administration will make to the forthcoming Department of the Environment, Transport and the Regions Green Paper on school funding? (OAQ6141)

A wnaiff Rosemary Butler amlinellu’r cyfraniad y bydd y weinyddiaeth yn ei wneud at Bapur Gwyrdd Adran yr Amgylchedd, Trafnidiaeth a’r Rhanbarthau ar ariannu ysgolion? (OAQ6141)

Rosemary Butler spoken in English p. 9

Rosemary Butler siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 9

The DETR expect to publish a Green Paper that will cover a range of local government finance issues. The paper could include options for developing the management of school funding. Peter Law is co-ordinating work on this broad policy area within the Assembly and is developing proposals that are tailored to the needs and circumstances of Wales. There will be separate and wide consultation in Wales on these proposals, which will run through to the autumn.

Mae Adran yr Amgylchedd, Trafnidiaeth a’r Rhanbarthau yn disgwyl cyhoeddi Papur Gwyrdd a fydd yn ymdrin ag amrediad o faterion cyllid llywodraeth leol. Gallai’r papur gynnwys opsiynau ar gyfer datblygu rheolaeth ar ariannu ysgolion. Mae Peter Law yn cyd-drefnu gwaith ar y maes polisi bras hwn o fewn y Cynulliad ac yn datblygu cynigion sydd wedi’u teilwrio i anghenion ac amgylchiadau Cymru. Bydd ymgynghori eang ac ar-wahân yng Nghymru ar y cynigion hyn a fydd yn parhau hyd ar yr hydref.

David Melding spoken in English p. 9

David Melding siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 9

Is the Secretary concerned that a top priority would be to establish separate funding streams for schools and local education authorities so that as much education money as possible gets to the chalk face?

A yw’r Ysgrifennydd yn awyddus i roi blaenoriaeth uchel i sefydlu ffrydiau cyllido ar-wahân ar gyfer ysgolion ac awdurdodau addysg lleol fel bod cymaint o arian addysg ag sydd yn bosibl yn cyrraedd y rheng flaen?

Rosemary Butler spoken in English p. 9

Rosemary Butler siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 9

First, we must ensure that those of us in the Pre-16 Education, Schools and Early Learning Committee get a big chunk of the Assembly budget. That is a plug to Edwina Hart to ensure that we receive the money to distribute in the first place. It is important that our strategy is to develop strategies in the Assembly, and then to have local authorities deliver those policies. I am convinced that the best way to do so is to ensure that local authorities as strategic bodies at local level distribute to schools. In Wales we do not pay money directly to schools, except for specific projects for which they apply, and funding under the grants for education support and training programme. I expect that to continue.

Yn gyntaf, rhaid inni sicrhau y caiff y rheini ohonom sydd ar y Pwyllgor Addysg Cyn-16, Ysgolion ac Addysg Gynnar ddarn mawr o gyllideb y Cynulliad. Dyna daro’r post i Edwina Hart glywed er mwyn iddi sicrhau ein bod yn derbyn yr arian i’w ddosbarthu yn y lle cyntaf. Mae’n bwysig mai ein strategaeth yw datblygu strategaethau yn y Cynulliad, ac wedyn sicrhau bod awdurdodau lleol yn gweithredu’r polisïau hynny. Yr wyf yn argyhoeddedig mai’r ffordd orau i wneud hyn yw sicrhau bod yr awdurdodau lleol fel cyrff strategol ar lefel leol yn dosbarthu i’r ysgolion. Yng Nghymru ni thalwn arian yn uniongyrchol i ysgolion, ac eithrio ar gyfer prosiectau penodol y gwnânt gais amdanynt, ac arian dan y rhaglen grantiau cynnal addysg a hyfforddiant. Disgwyliaf i hynny barhau.

Gareth Jones siaradwyd yn Gymraeg t. 9

Gareth Jones spoken in Welsh p. 9

Mae’n hen bryd inni edrych eto ar y broses o ariannu ysgolion. A oes unrhyw obaith y gwnewch gefnu ar y drefn Thatcheraidd o gyllido ein hysgolion yn ôl rhifau, a mabwysiadu cyfundrefn sydd yn seiliedig ar wir anghenion addysgol, megis y cwricwlwm a’r anghenion hynny sydd yn deillio o gyflwr difreintiedig llawer o’n cymunedau, ac felly cartrefi ein plant yng Nghymru?

It is high time that we looked again at the process of funding schools. Is there any hope that you will turn your back on the Thatcherite method of funding schools according to numbers, and adopt a system that is based on real educational needs, such as the curriculum and the needs that arise out of the deprived condition of many of our communities, and therefore the homes of our children in Wales?

Rosemary Butler spoken in English p. 10

Rosemary Butler siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 10

That is a good point. It is important to ensure that children who live in deprived communities receive the best possible education. The Assembly is committed to that and it is a top priority in the ‘Betterwales.com’ document. I still believe that it is up to local authorities to decide how to fund their local schools. They know what the circumstances are on the ground. As has been reported, there is a large disparity between schools in different areas and even within different authorities in terms of the amount that schools receive per pupil. That needs to be addressed. We must take into account the fact that authorities have to consider the fact that they are in a rural or urban area. Local authorities are best placed to decide how much each school should receive per pupil. I want to ensure that however much the school receives, that money is spent in the best possible way. We must ensure that we have strategies to enable local authorities to do that.

Mae hynny’n bwynt da. Mae’n bwysig sicrhau bod plant sydd yn byw mewn cymunedau difreintiedig yn cael yr addysg orau bosibl. Mae’r Cynulliad wedi ymrwymo i hynny ac mae’n un o’r prif flaenoriaethau yn y ddogfen ‘Gwellcymru.com’. Yr wyf yn dal i gredu mai mater i awdurdodau lleol yw penderfynu sut i ariannu’u hysgolion lleol. Gwyddant beth yw’r amgylchiadau ar lawr gwlad. Fel yr adroddwyd, mae gwahaniaeth mawr rhwng ysgolion mewn gwahanol ardaloedd a hyd yn oed o fewn gwahanol awdurdodau o ran y swm a dderbynia ysgolion fesul disgybl. Mae angen rhoi sylw i hynny. Rhaid inni gofio bod yn rhaid i awdurdodau ystyried y ffaith eu bod mewn ardal wledig neu drefol. Awdurdodau lleol sydd yn y sefyllfa orau i benderfynu faint y dylai pob ysgol ei dderbyn fesul disgybl. Mae arnaf fi eisiau sicrhau y caiff yr arian ei wario yn y ffordd orau bosibl, faint bynnag a gaiff yr ysgol. Rhaid inni sicrhau bod gennym strategaethau i alluogi awdurdodau lleol i wneud hynny.

Jenny Randerson spoken in English p. 10

Jenny Randerson siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 10

I am sure that you are aware that there is still a funding gap between England and Wales in average expenditure per pupil. Are you confident that next year, when we have the comprehensive spending review and look at the next budgetary round, you will have closed the gap entirely and will be able to give pupils in Wales the standard of education that they deserve?

Yr wyf yn siŵr eich bod yn ymwybodol bod bwlch cyllid yn dal i fodoli rhwng Lloegr a Chymru mewn gwariant fesul disgybl ar gyfartaledd. A ydych yn hyderus y byddwch, erbyn y flwyddyn nesaf, pan gawn yr adolygiad cynhwysfawr o wariant ac edrych ar y cylch cyllideb nesaf, wedi cau’r bwlch yn llwyr ac y byddwch yn gallu rhoi i ddisgyblion yng Nghymru y safon o addysg a haeddant?

Rosemary Butler spoken in English p. 10

Rosemary Butler siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 10

Did you say the difference between Wales and England?

A ddywedasoch y gwahaniaeth rhwng Cymru a Lloegr?

Jenny Randerson siaradwyd yn Gymraeg t. 10

Jenny Randerson spoken in Welsh p. 10

Yes.

Do.

Rosemary Butler spoken in English p. 10

Rosemary Butler siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 10

Your interpretation of the figures is interesting. If you take out the inner London authorities from the total, you will find that schools in Wales are funded on a par with, if not better than, schools in England. Therefore, it depends on what figures you put in the pot. I want to ensure that schools in Wales get as big a slice of our budget as is possible. According to the information that I have, the suggestion that schools in England receive more money than Wales is not accurate.

Mae eich dehongliad o’r ffigurau’n ddiddorol. Os tynnwch awdurdodau Llundain fewnol allan o’r cyfanswm, fe welwch fod ysgolion yng Nghymru’n cael eu hariannu’n gyfartal ag ysgolion yn Lloegr, os nad yn well. Felly, mae’n dibynnu pa ffigurau a roddwch i mewn i’r pot. Yr wyf am sicrhau bod ysgolion yng Nghymru’n cael y darn mwyaf o’n cyllideb ag sydd yn bosibl. Yn ôl yr wybodaeth sydd gennyf, nid yw’r awgrym bod ysgolion yn Lloegr yn derbyn mwy o arian na rhai yng Nghymru yn gywir.

Jane Davidson The Deputy Presiding Officer spoken in English p. 11

Jane Davidson Y Dirprwy Lywydd siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 11

Alun Cairns’s question 3 will be transferred for written answer.

Caiff cwestiwn 3 gan Alun Cairns ei drosglwyddo ar gyfer ateb ysgrifenedig.

Cwestiynau i’r Ysgrifennydd Amaethyddiaeth a Datblygu Gwledig

Questions to the Secretary for Agriculture and Rural Development

Dosbarthiad y Gweithlu yng Nghefn Gwlad

Rural Workforce Classification

Q1 Janet Ryder spoken in English p. 11

C1 Janet Ryder siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 11

On average, what percentage of the rural workforce can be classified as being seasonal? (OAQ6076)

Ar gyfartaledd, pa ganran o’r gweithlu yng nghefn gwlad sydd â gwaith tymhorol? (OAQ6076)

Christine Gwyther The Secretary for Agriculture and Rural Development spoken in English p. 11

Christine Gwyther Yr Ysgrifennydd Amaethyddiaeth a Datblygu Gwledig siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 11

It is difficult to obtain a definite figure for this because figures for seasonal employment fall below the reliability threshold of the labour force survey. The winter 1999-2000 survey estimates that on average there are about 23,000 non-permanent employees in rural Wales. This figure includes seasonal and casual employment, agency temping, fixed contracts and other non-permanent work.

Mae’n anodd cael ffigur pendant ar hyn am fod ffigurau cyflogaeth dymhorol yn syrthio o dan y trothwy dibynadwyedd yn yr arolwg o’r gweithlu. Amcangyfrifa arolwg gaeaf 1999-2000 fod rhyw 23,000 o weithwyr amharhaol ar gyfartaledd yng nghefn gwlad Cymru. Mae’r ffigur hwn yn cynnwys gwaith tymhorol ac achlysurol, gwaith asiantaeth dros-dro, contractau penodol a gwaith arall amharhaol.

Janet Ryder spoken in English p. 11

Janet Ryder siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 11

That is quite a high figure. In an area such as north Wales, thousands of people are dependent on seasonal employment, which is linked to the tourist industry. As the Secretary for Agriculture and Rural Development, you have an obvious interest and responsibility for the development of such a vital industry as tourism in rural Wales, along with other issues.

Mae hynny’n ffigur eithaf uchel. Mewn ardal fel gogledd Cymru, mae miloedd o bobl yn ddibynnol ar waith tymhorol, sydd yn gysylltiedig â’r diwydiant twristiaid. Fel Ysgrifennydd Amaethyddiaeth a Datblygu Gwledig, mae gennych ddiddordeb a chyfrifoldeb amlwg dros ddatblygu diwydiant mor allweddol â thwristiaeth yn y Gymru wledig, ynghyd â materion eraill.

Jane Davidson The Deputy Presiding Officer spoken in English p. 11

Jane Davidson Y Dirprwy Lywydd siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 11

Order. Could we have a question, please?

Trefn. A gawn gwestiwn, os gwelwch yn dda?

Janet Ryder spoken in English p. 11

Janet Ryder siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 11

Yes. If this rural approach is taken up by other Cabinet Secretaries and absorbed into their portfolios, as the Secretary for Agriculture and Rural Development could you tell me how the Cabinet intends to ensure that any strategy for the development of rural tourism produces economic and social benefits for communities throughout Wales?

Cewch. Os mabwysiedir yr agwedd wledig hon gan Ysgrifenyddion Cabinet eraill, a’i chynnwys yn eu portffolios, fel Ysgrifennydd Amaethyddiaeth a Datblygu Gwledig a allech ddweud wrthyf sut y bwriada’r Cabinet sicrhau bod unrhyw strategaeth ar gyfer datblygu twristiaeth cefn gwlad yn cynhyrchu budd economaidd a chymdeithasol i gymunedau ledled Cymru?

Christine Gwyther spoken in English p. 12

Christine Gwyther siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 12

I will try to tease out an answer from that question. It is interesting that those 23,000 non-permanent employees to whom I referred represent 7.4 per cent of the workforce in rural Wales. That compares favourably with the figure for Wales as a whole, which includes 7.5 per cent in industrial Wales. Rural Wales is doing slightly better than industrial Wales on this issue. That surprised me even though I come from a rural area. In my experience, the sort of work that the Wales Tourist Board has been doing and continues to do will be the most important factor in extending the season for seasonal employees. We are talking about work to extend the tourist season.

Ceisiaf dynnu ateb allan o’r cwestiwn hwnnw. Mae’n ddiddorol fod y 23,000 o weithwyr amharhaol hynny a grybwyllais yn cynrychioli 7.4 y cant o’r gweithlu yng nghefn gwlad Cymru. Mae hynny’n cymharu’n ffafriol â’r ffigur ar gyfer Cymru yn ei chyfanrwydd, sydd yn cynnwys 7.5 y cant yn y Gymru ddiwydiannol. Mae’r Gymru wledig yn gwneud fymryn yn well na’r Gymru ddiwydiannol yn y mater hwn. Synnodd hynny fi, er fy mod yn dod o ardal wledig. Yn fy mhrofiad i, y math o waith y mae Bwrdd Croeso Cymru wedi bod yn ei wneud ac yn parhau i’w wneud fydd y ffactor pwysicaf o blaid ymestyn y tymor i weithwyr tymhorol. Sôn yr ydym am waith i ymestyn y tymor twristiaid.

Christine Chapman spoken in English p. 12

Christine Chapman siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 12

On the workforce in rural areas, do you agree that Stephen Byers’s announcement today to boost the role of rural post offices will safeguard the jobs of many workers in rural areas and further ensure that local communities will not lose vital services as they did during the 1980s and early 1990s?

O ran y gweithlu mewn ardaloedd gwledig, a ydych yn cytuno y bydd cyhoeddiad Stephen Byers heddiw i hybu rôl swyddfeydd post gwledig yn diogelu swyddi llawer o weithwyr mewn ardaloedd gwledig ac yn sicrhau ymhellach na fydd cymunedau gwledig yn colli gwasanaethau hanfodol fel y gwnaethant yn ystod y 1980au a’r 1990au cynnar?

Christine Gwyther spoken in English p. 12

Christine Gwyther siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 12

I agree. I listened to Stephen Byers’s announcement this morning and was impressed. It makes a great deal of sense to use post office premises for other purposes, where possible. Any moves in that direction are very welcome, not just to save the jobs of those who run the post office but to keep the facility alive in rural and some urban areas.

Cytunaf. Gwrandewais ar gyhoeddiad Stephen Byers y bore yma a gwnaeth argraff ffafriol arnaf. Mae’n gwneud llawer o synnwyr defnyddio adeiladau swyddfeydd post ar gyfer dibenion eraill, lle bo modd. Croesewir yn fawr unrhyw symudiadau i’r cyfeiriad hwnnw, nid dim ond i arbed swyddi’r rheini sydd yn rhedeg y swyddfa bost ond hefyd i gadw’r cyfleuster yn fyw mewn ardaloedd gwledig a rhai ardaloedd trefol.

Glyn Davies spoken in English p. 12

Glyn Davies siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 12

Do you accept that in many industries seasonal workers are vital to the industry’s success? Do you accept the need to ensure that regulation is not introduced that would discourage the employment of seasonal workers is not introduced except, of course, to ensure that they are properly resident in the country?

A ydych yn derbyn, mewn sawl diwydiant, fod gweithwyr tymhorol yn allweddol i lwyddiant y diwydiant? A ydych yn derbyn yr angen i sicrhau na chyflwynir rheolau a fyddai’n llesteirio cyflogi gweithwyr tymhorol ac eithrio, wrth gwrs, i sicrhau eu bod yn drigolion priodol yn y wlad?

Christine Gwyther spoken in English p. 13

Christine Gwyther siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 13

That can be a problem in some areas especially when people park temporary caravans where authorities would rather they did not. Seasonal work is a way of life in rural Wales and every opportunity should be taken to explore the difficulties before they arise. Half way through the potato picking season, or whatever, is too late.

Gall hynny fod yn broblem mewn rhai ardaloedd, yn enwedig lle bydd pobl yn parcio carafanau dros-dro mewn mannau lle byddai’n well gan yr awdurdodau iddynt beidio â gwneud. Mae gwaith tymhorol yn ffordd o fyw yng nghefn gwlad Cymru a dylid manteisio ar bob cyfle i ymchwilio i’r anawsterau cyn iddynt godi. Mae hanner ffordd drwy’r tymor codi tatws, neu beth bynnag, yn rhy hwyr.

Nod Ansawdd Cymreig

Welsh Quality Standard Mark

C2 Owen John Thomas siaradwyd yn Gymraeg t. 13

Q2 Owen John Thomas spoken in Welsh p. 13

A oes gan Christine Gwyther gynlluniau i fabwysiadu nod ansawdd Cymreig tebyg i’r British Farm Standard? (OAQ6053)

Does Christine Gwyther have any plans to introduce a Welsh quality standard mark similar to the British Farm Standard? (OAQ6053)

Christine Gwyther spoken in English p. 13

Christine Gwyther siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 13

A Welsh quality standard mark is one of the options being considered in the branding study currently being carried out for the Welsh Development Agency as part of the agri-food strategy. The study report is expected in the autumn.

Mae nod ansawdd Cymreig yn un o’r opsiynau sydd yn cael ei ystyried yn yr astudiaeth frandio sydd yn cael ei gwneud ar hyn o bryd ar ran Awdurdod Datblygu Cymru fel rhan o’r strategaeth fwyd-amaeth. Disgwylir adroddiad yr astudiaeth yn yr hydref.

Owen John Thomas siaradwyd yn Gymraeg t. 13

Owen John Thomas spoken in Welsh p. 13

A gytunwch fod y potensial i farchnata cynnyrch cig Cymru yn dibynnu ar ein gallu i frandio a labelu ein cynnyrch yn effeithiol? A wnewch felly ystyried estyn y nod ansawdd i gynnwys cynnyrch bwyd Cymru yn gyffredinol? A wnewch greu fforwm i ddod â ffermwyr a chynhyrchwyr bwyd eraill at ei gilydd i hybu eu cynnyrch?

Do you agree that the potential to market Welsh meat produce depends on our ability to brand and label our produce effectively? Will you therefore consider extending the standard mark to include Welsh food produce in general? Will you create a forum to bring farmers and other food producers together to promote their produce?

Christine Gwyther spoken in English p. 13

Christine Gwyther siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 13

That forum already exists in the agri-food partnership. The issue has been discussed extensively within that partnership. We have also talked about it in the Committee and in discussions that Rhodri Glyn Thomas and myself have had with retailers and processors. The last thing that we would want is to lose our Welsh identity in terms of selling not only our meat, but other particularly Welsh produce such as cheese. There is a UK-wide brand—the red tractor logo—which the National Farmers Union introduced. That is a quality mark. We are considering how we can incorporate our own quality mark, which would be particularly Welsh. We know that that sells produce.

Mae’r fforwm hwnnw’n bodoli eisoes yn y bartneriaeth fwyd-amaeth. Trafodwyd y mater yn helaeth o fewn y bartneriaeth honno. Yr ydym wedi siarad amdano hefyd yn y Pwyllgor ac mewn trafodaethau a gafodd Rhodri Glyn Thomas a mi gyda mân-werthwyr a phroseswyr. Y peth olaf y byddem ei eisiau yw colli’n hunaniaeth Gymreig yn nhermau gwerthu, nid yn unig ein cig ond cynnyrch arbennig o Gymreig arall megis caws. Mae brand ar gael i’r DU gyfan—logo’r tractor coch—a gyflwynwyd gan Undeb Cenedlaethol yr Amaethwyr. Mae hwnnw’n nod ansawdd. Yr ydym yn ystyried sut y gallwn ymgorffori’n nod ansawdd ein hunain, a fyddai’n benodol Gymreig. Gwyddom fod hynny’n gwerthu cynnyrch.

Michael German spoken in English p. 14

Michael German siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 14

I thank you on behalf of all the parties for meeting us this morning. Thank you for your willingness to discuss how to further the Assembly’s stance on genetically modified crops. On high standards for Welsh agriculture, do you agree that despite the best efforts of external forces to undermine the Assembly’s precautionary proposals on GM crops policy, it would provide a magnificent marketing opportunity and high quality standards for a hard-pressed farming community? Can you reassure the Assembly that you will redouble your efforts to find all means possible to ensure that this aspiration is turned into reality?

Diolch ichi ar ran y pleidiau i gyd am gyfarfod â ni y bore yma. Diolch am eich parodrwydd i drafod sut i symud ymlaen â safiad y Cynulliad ar gnydau a addaswyd yn enetig. Ar safonau uchel i amaethyddiaeth Gymreig, a ydych yn cytuno y byddai, er gwaethaf ymdrechion gorau grymoedd allanol i danseilio cynigion rhagofalgar y Cynulliad ar bolisi cnydau GM, yn cynnig cyfle marchnata ardderchog a safonau ansawdd uchel i gymuned ffermio sydd dan gryn bwysau? A allwch sicrhau’r Cynulliad y gwnewch ailddyblu’ch ymdrechion i ganfod pob modd posibl i sicrhau y troir y dyhead hwn yn realiti?

Christine Gwyther spoken in English p. 14

Christine Gwyther siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 14

We must be clear about what that aspiration is and what the reality could be. It has been stated clearly in this Chamber, in the Committee and in this morning’s meeting—where we had a good round table discussion, and I would be happy to do that again at a later stage as and when we need to—that it is not possible to have a GM-free Wales. That does not mean that we should not redouble our efforts to have as restrictive a policy as possible on GM crop production in Wales. The Executive has taken that on board. I thank the people who came to this morning’s meeting for the co-operative spirit in which the meeting was conducted. It is the first time that such a disparate group, including officials, lawyers, Friends of the Earth and politicians, have discussed the issues that matter. It was a good way forward and I was glad to be able to issue that invitation.

Rhaid inni fod yn glir ynghylch beth yw’r dyhead hwnnw a beth allai’r realiti fod. Dywedwyd yn glir yn y Siambr hon, yn y Pwyllgor ac yng nghyfarfod y bore yma—lle cawsom drafodaeth dda o amgylch y bwrdd, a byddwn yn hapus i wneud hynny eto rywbryd yn y dyfodol yn ôl yr angen—nad yw’n bosibl cael Cymru rydd o gnydau GM. Nid yw hynny’n golygu na ddylem ailddyblu’n hymdrechion i gael polisi sydd yn cyfyngu gymaint ag sydd yn bosibl ar gynhyrchu cnydau GM yng Nghymru. Mae’r Weithrediaeth yn llawn dderbyn hynny. Diolchaf i’r bobl a ddaeth i gyfarfod y bore yma am yr ysbryd cydweithredol a fu i’r cyfarfod. Dyma’r tro cyntaf i griw mor amrywiol, yn cynnwys swyddogion, cyfreithwyr, Cyfeillion y Ddaear a gwleidyddion, drafod y materion sydd o bwys. Yr oedd yn ffordd dda ymlaen ac yr oeddwn yn falch o allu rhoi’r gwahoddiad hwnnw.

Peter Rogers spoken in English p. 14

Peter Rogers siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 14

I welcome your reply to the question on branding and a quality mark for Welsh produce. How can you guarantee that imported meat that comes into this country and is processed and packed here does not also get the same logo?

Croesawaf eich ateb i’r cwestiwn ar frandio a nod ansawdd i gynnyrch Cymru. Sut allwch warantu nad yw cig a fewnforiwyd i mewn i’r wlad yma a’i brosesu a’i bacio yma ddim yn cael yr un logo?

Christine Gwyther spoken in English p. 14

Christine Gwyther siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 14

The quality mark that we will be talking about will include the same kind of restrictions as those of the farm assured Welsh livestock. We would not want to go any lower than that. One interesting point about the red tractor that the NFU in England and Wales are promoting is that it can be used by anybody in Europe. That is slightly disappointing but it does not necessarily mean that it might not be a good marketing tool. A peculiarly Welsh symbol would be less likely to be used by other people.

Bydd y nod ansawdd y byddwn yn sôn amdano’n cynnwys yr un math o gyfyngiadau ag oedd ar y da byw Cymreig a warantwyd ar y fferm. Ni fyddem eisiau mynd ddim is na hynny. Un pwynt diddorol am y tractor coch sydd yn cael ei hybu gan yr NFU yn Lloegr a Chymru yw y gall unrhyw un yn Ewrop ei ddefnyddio. Mae hynny ychydig yn siomedig, ond nid yw’n golygu o reidrwydd nad ydyw efallai’n arf marchnata da. Byddai symbol arbennig o Gymreig yn llai tebygol o gael ei ddefnyddio gan bobl eraill.

Polisi Amaeth a Chefn Gwlad yng Nghymru

Agriculture and Rural Policy in Wales

C3 Cynog Dafis siaradwyd yn Gymraeg t. 15

Q3 Cynog Dafis spoken in Welsh p. 15

A yw Christine Gwyther wedi cynnal trafodaethau gyda’r Gweinidog Amaeth, Pysgodfeydd a Bwyd ynghylch cyfeiriad polisi amaeth a chefn gwlad yng Nghymru? (OAQ6152)

Has Christine Gwyther held discussions with the Minister for Agriculture, Fisheries and Food regarding the direction of agriculture and rural policy in Wales? (OAQ6152)

Christine Gwyther spoken in English p. 15

Christine Gwyther siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 15

That is such a general question that it could almost be called a friendly one, but we will see when the supplementary is asked. I have regular meetings with Nick Brown and the agriculture ministers of the other devolved administrations on a range of issues, including the general direction of agriculture and rural policy.

Mae hwnnw’n gwestiwn mor gyffredinol, bron na ellid ei alw’n gwestiwn cyfeillgar, ond cawn weld pan ofynnir y cwestiwn ategol. Byddaf yn cyfarfod yn rheolaidd â Nick Brown a gweinidogion amaeth y gweinyddiaethau datganoledig eraill ar amrediad o faterion, yn cynnwys cyfeiriad cyffredinol amaethyddiaeth a pholisi cefn gwlad.

Cynog Dafis siaradwyd yn Gymraeg t. 15

Cynog Dafis spoken in Welsh p. 15

Gŵyr Christine Gwyther gystal â minnau y bydd y broses o ddiwygio’r polisi amaethyddol cyffredin yn parhau. Sut y bydd hi a gweinyddiaeth Llywodraeth Cymru yn sicrhau y clywir llais Cymru yn y broses honno? Dywed Nick Brown a Tony Blair eu bod yn ffafrio’r farchnad rydd a thorri yn ôl ar gymorth ariannol i amaethyddiaeth. Golyga lles Cymru ar y llaw arall bolisi amaethyddol cyffredin a fyddai’n cydnabod yr angen am gymorth ariannol sylweddol er mwyn sicrhau buddiannau cymdeithasol ac amgylcheddol. Pa waith y mae ei hadran hi yn ei wneud i ddiffinio safbwynt Cymreig mewn perthynas â diwygio pellach ar y polisi amaethyddol cyffredin a sut y mae hi’n sicrhau y clywir y llais Cymreig hwnnw ym Mrwsel ac yn Strasbourg?

Christine Gwyther knows as well as I do that the process of reforming the common agricultural policy will continue. How will she and the administration of the Government of Wales ensure that Wales’s voice is heard in that process? Nick Brown and Tony Blair say that they favour the free market and cutting back on financial aid to agriculture. The welfare of Wales on the other hand means a common agricultural policy that would recognise the need for substantial financial aid in order to secure social and environmental interests. What work is her department doing to define a Welsh stance in relation to further reform of the common agricultural policy, and how does she ensure that that Welsh voice will be heard in Brussels and in Strasbourg?

Christine Gwyther spoken in English p. 15

Christine Gwyther siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 15

It is the policy of all European Union member states to cut down on subsidy eventually. That is also the policy of most farmers because they want money to be directed in ways that will specifically help them, such as cutting down on red tape and ensuring a freer market across the European Union. However, we must be careful about how quickly we move to such a state and it is my perception that in Wales we must protect the subsidies that we know are vital for the people working in rural Wales. The one that is currently under discussion is the sheep meat regime—the sheep annual premium. At our last UK agriculture ministers meeting, I pressed the case for Wales that there should be as little change in the premium as possible. That proposal is now being taken forward to the Cabinet Office by Nick Brown on the recommendations of Northern Ireland and Scotland as well as my own. The devolved administrations made their views clearly known on this. There could be a proposal from the Commission in September to change the sheep meat regime, but that proposal, when it comes, could state that they are prepared to keep the status quo. That is certainly what I would prefer.

Polisi holl aelod-wladwriaethau’r Undeb Ewropeaidd yw cwtogi cymhorthdal yn y pen draw. Dyna bolisi’r rhan fwyaf o ffermwyr hefyd oherwydd mae arnynt hwy eisiau cyfeirio arian mewn ffyrdd a fydd yn eu helpu hwy’n benodol, megis lleihau biwrocratiaeth a sicrhau marchnad fwy rhydd ar draws yr Undeb Ewropeaidd. Fodd bynnag, rhaid inni fod yn ofalus ynghylch pa mor gyflym y symudwn at gyflwr o’r fath ac yr wyf fi o’r farn fod yn rhaid i ni yng Nghymru warchod y cymorthdaliadau y gwyddom eu bod yn hanfodol i’r bobl sydd yn gweithio yng nghefn gwlad Cymru. Y drefn ar gyfer cig defaid, sef y premiwm defaid blynyddol, yw’r un sydd dan sylw ar hyn o bryd. Yn ein cyfarfod diwethaf o weinidogion amaeth y DU, pwysleisiais achos Cymru y dylid cael cyn lleied o newid yn y premiwm ag sydd yn bosibl. Mae’r cynnig hwnnw yn awr yn cael ei ddwyn ymlaen i Swyddfa’r Cabinet gan Nick Brown, nid yn unig ar f’argymhellion i, ond ar rai Gogledd Iwerddon a’r Alban hefyd. Mynegodd y gweinyddiaethau datganoledig eu barn ar hyn yn glir. Gallai cynnig ddod o’r Comisiwn ym mis Medi i newid y drefn gig defaid, ond gallai’r cynnig hwnnw, pan ddaw, ddweud eu bod yn barod i gadw’r sefyllfa fel y mae. Dyna’n sicr beth fyddai fy newis i.

Nick Bourne spoken in English p. 16

Nick Bourne siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 16

Are you aware that, as well as the deep concern in Wales, there is also deep concern in other parts of the UK that a switch to a hectare system of LFA support will lead to a substantial redistribution of aid affecting the viability of several traditional LFA farms? Are you happy that the Tir Mynydd proposal is consistent with the EU’s objective of contributing to the maintenance of a viable rural community?

A ydych yn ymwybodol fod pryder dwys, nid yn unig yng Nghymru ond mewn rhannau eraill o’r DU, y byddai newid i system o gymorth LFA ar sail hectarau yn arwain at ailddosbarthiad cymorth sylweddol, gan effeithio ar hyfywdra llawer o ffermydd LFA traddodiadol? A ydych yn hapus bod y cynnig Tir Mynydd yn gyson â nod yr UE o gyfrannu at gynnal cymuned wledig hyfyw?

Christine Gwyther spoken in English p. 16

Christine Gwyther siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 16

It is another nice question. The European Commission’s picture of a viable rural community does not always consider individual units within that community. I take on board the spirit behind that question, because it is important that we consider the impact on individuals as well as on the whole fabric of rural life. The Tir Mynydd scheme is the first one throughout the UK to go to the Commission. We were extremely disappointed that when it came back they would not accept a headage-based payment, no matter how cleverly it was dressed up as something else. The same reply has been given to various EU member states, including Eire. I take Eire as quite a potent signal, because our experience over several years has been that, of all the member states, Eire is best at getting its proposals through, whatever they may be. I am sure that Rhodri Morgan has seen a few going through from Eire that surprised him. Having said that, the reform scheme that we have presented includes two important caveats. There must be a safety net and a tier system. The Commission is still considering those two points. It is a political imperative for us to press those points because without those important parts of our proposal, people will suffer. I take on board what you said. We must protect our new revised proposal.

Cwestiwn difyr arall. Nid yw darlun y Comisiwn Ewropeaidd o gymuned wledig hyfyw bob amser yn ystyried unedau unigol o fewn y gymuned honno. Derbyniaf yr ysbryd y tu ôl i’r cwestiwn hwnnw, oherwydd mae’n bwysig ein bod yn ystyried yr effaith ar unigolion yn ogystal ag ar holl ffabrig bywyd cefn gwlad. Y cynllun Tir Mynydd yw’r cyntaf drwy’r DU gyfan i fynd gerbron y Comisiwn. Yr oeddem yn hynod o siomedig pan ddaeth yn ôl nad oeddent yn fodlon derbyn tâl seiliedig ar niferoedd da byw, ni waeth pa mor glyfar y’i gwisgid fel rhywbeth arall. Rhoddwyd yr un ateb i amryw o aelod-wladwriaethau’r UE, gan gynnwys Iwerddon. Cymeraf Iwerddon fel arwydd eithaf cryf, oherwydd ein profiad dros sawl blwyddyn yw mai Iwerddon yw’r orau o’r holl aelod-wladwriaethau am gael ei chynigion drwodd, beth bynnag a fônt. Yr wyf yn siŵr bod Rhodri Morgan wedi gweld ambell beth yn mynd drwodd o Iwerddon a’i synnodd. Wedi dweud hynny, mae’r cynllun diwygio yr ydym ni wedi’i gyflwyno’n cynnwys dau gafeat pwysig. Rhaid cael rhwyd diogelwch a system haenau. Mae’r Comisiwn yn dal i ystyried y ddau bwynt hynny. Mae’n rheidrwydd gwleidyddol inni bwyso ar y pwyntiau hynny oherwydd heb y rhannau pwysig hynny o’n cynnig, bydd pobl yn dioddef. Derbyniaf beth a ddywedasoch. Rhaid inni warchod ein cynnig diwygiedig newydd.

Mick Bates spoken in English p. 17

Mick Bates siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 17

In your meeting with the Ministry of Agriculture, Fisheries and Food, what actions have you taken to influence the comprehensive spending review in order to increase our agriculture budget, particularly to reach your target for organic growth in Wales, which requires an extra £46 million?

Yn eich cyfarfod gyda’r Weinyddiaeth Amaethyddiaeth, Pysgodfeydd a Bwyd, beth ydych chi wedi’i wneud i ddylanwadu ar yr adolygiad cynhwysfawr o wariant er mwyn cynyddu’n cyllideb amaeth, yn arbennig i gyrraedd eich targed ar gyfer twf organig yng Nghymru, sydd angen £46 miliwn yn ychwanegol?

Christine Gwyther spoken in English p. 17

Christine Gwyther siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 17

Direct negotiations on the CSR are a matter for the Finance Secretary and the First Secretary. However, in the last 12 months, Wales has been very successful in its dealings with MAFF because we have received two packages from the Treasury that have benefited Wales enormously. On less favoured area payments, I have pressed the case for Wales to receive as much as we have received in the last two years, which is the extra £12.2 million. We will have to wait until later in the summer to discover how we get on.

Mater i’r Ysgrifennydd Cyllid a’r Prif Ysgrifennydd yw negodiadau uniongyrchol ar yr adolygiad cynhwysfawr o wariant. Fodd bynnag, yn y 12 mis diwethaf, bu Cymru’n llwyddiannus iawn yn ei thrafodaethau â’r WAPB oherwydd cawsom ddau becyn gan y Trysorlys a fu o fantais enfawr i Gymru. Ar daliadau i ardaloedd llai ffafriol, yr wyf wedi pwyso’r achos i Gymru gael cymaint ag a gawsom yn y ddwy flynedd ddiwethaf, sef y £12.2 miliwn ychwanegol. Bydd yn rhaid inni aros tan yn ddiweddarach yn yr haf i weld a lwyddwn.

Pwyntiau o Drefn

Points of Order

Mick Bates spoken in English p. 17

Mick Bates siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 17

Point of order. I place on record my displeasure under Standing Order No. 6.14 that amendment 4 in my name was not voted on in yesderday’s hunting debate. I have requested a meeting with the Presiding Officer to see what can be done to rectify the situation because I cannot understand why my amendment was rendered obsolete following earlier votes. I would appreciate your ruling.

Pwynt o drefn. Hoffwn gofnodi fy anniddigrwydd dan Reol Sefydlog Rhif 6.14 na phleidleisiwyd ar welliant 4 o’m heiddo yn y ddadl ddoe ar hela. Yr wyf wedi gofyn am gyfarfod gyda’r Llywydd i weld beth y gellir ei wneud i gywiro’r sefyllfa oherwydd ni allaf ddeall pam y barnwyd fod fy ngwelliant i wedi’i ddisodli yn dilyn pleidleisiau blaenorol. Byddwn yn gwerthfawrogi’ch dyfarniad.

Jane Davidson The Deputy Presiding Officer spoken in English p. 17

Jane Davidson Y Dirprwy Lywydd siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 17

This should not be regarded as a point of order because it queries the Presiding Officer’s handling of business. It would be more appropriate to address this to him personally. However, I will respond for the purpose of clarification. Mick Bates raised this issue informally with the Presiding Officer following yesterday’s session, which has given me the opportunity to consider the decision. The decision not to take a vote on Mick Bates’s amendment 4 was properly taken for two reasons. Firstly, by agreeing amendments 1 and 2, the Assembly decided that the Government of Wales request Her Majesty’s Government to allow any decision on hunting with dogs to be taken in Wales by the Assembly. By removing the three clauses in the Conservatives’ motion which supported hunting, the Assembly voted for a provision which contained no points for or against hunting. It was considered that—the words ‘in addition’ notwithstanding—Mick Bates’s amendment 4 supplemented the pro-hunting clauses that had been removed.

Ni ddylid edrych ar hyn fel pwynt o drefn oherwydd mae’n cwestiynu dull y Llywydd o ymdrin â busnes. Byddai’n fwy priodol cyfeirio hyn ato ef yn bersonol. Fodd bynnag, fe wnaf ymateb er mwyn eglurder. Cododd Mick Bates y mater hwn yn anffurfiol gyda’r Llywydd ar ôl sesiwn ddoe, felly yr wyf wedi cael cyfle i ystyried y penderfyniad. Yr oedd y penderfyniad i beidio â chymryd pleidlais ar welliant 4 Mick Bates yn briodol am ddau reswm. Yn gyntaf, drwy gytuno ar welliannau 1 a 2, penderfynodd y Cynulliad fod Llywodraeth Cymru’n gofyn i Lywodraeth Ei Mawrhydi ganiatáu i unrhyw benderfyniad ar hela â chŵn gael ei wneud yng Nghymru gan y Cynulliad. Drwy ddileu’r tri chymal yng nghynnig y Ceidwadwyr a gefnogai hela, pleidleisiodd y Cynulliad dros ddarpariaeth nad oedd yn cynnwys unrhyw bwyntiau o blaid nac yn erbyn hela. Barnwyd fod gwelliant 4 Mick Bates—er gwaethaf y geiriau ‘yn ogystal’—yn ategu’r cymalau o blaid hela a oedd wedi’u dileu.

Secondly, Mick Bates’s amendment 4 does not, on another viewpoint, relate to the motion since it is a request to the Assembly to consider the establishment of a body and not a request to Her Majesty’s Government as set out in the main motion. The Presiding Officer would have given consideration as to whether a vote should have been taken if the amendment had been reached.

Yn ail, nid yw gwelliant 4 Mick Bates, o safbwynt arall, yn berthnasol i’r cynnig gan mai cais ydyw ar i’r Cynulliad ystyried sefydlu corff ac nid cais i Lywodraeth Ei Mawrhydi fel a amlinellir yn y prif gynnig. Byddai’r Llywydd wedi ystyried a ddylasid cymryd pleidlais pe cyraeddasid y gwelliant.

Ieuan Wyn Jones spoken in English p. 18

Ieuan Wyn Jones siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 18

My point of order falls into two parts and I have notified the Business Secretary. Firstly, I will address comments made by the Secretary of State for Wales, Paul Murphy this morning on the Assembly’s vote on hunting yesterday. As I understand, the vote did not call on the Assembly to have primary legislative powers, as some of us would argue, but actually called on the Government to frame legislation in such a way that would allow the Assembly greater flexibility to introduce secondary legislation. This morning, Paul Murphy said that he would ignore the Assembly’s view. As the custodian of Assembly Members’ interests, I ask you, Deputy Presiding Officer, does not Paul Murphy’s refusal to consider that vote raise fundamental constitutional issues? How can the Secretary of State for Wales ignore the Assembly’s democratic will? That is my first point.

Mae fy mhwynt o drefn i’n rhannu’n ddwy ran ac yr wyf wedi hysbysu’r Trefnydd. Yn gyntaf, cyfeiriaf at sylwadau a wnaethpwyd gan Ysgrifennydd Gwladol Cymru, Paul Murphy y bore yma ar bleidlais y Cynulliad ar hela ddoe. Yn ôl a ddeallaf i, nid oedd y bleidlais yn galw am i’r Cynulliad gael pwerau deddfu sylfaenol, fel y dadleuai rhai ohonom, ond galwai yn wir ar i’r Llywodraeth fframio deddfwriaeth yn y fath fodd ag i ganiatáu mwy o hyblygrwydd i’r Cynulliad gael cyflwyno deddfwriaeth eilaidd. Y bore yma, dywedodd Paul Murphy y byddai’n anwybyddu barn y Cynulliad. Fel ceidwad buddiannau Aelodau’r Cynulliad, gofynnaf i chi, Ddirprwy Lywydd, onid yw gwrthodiad Paul Murphy i ystyried y bleidlais honno’n codi cwestiynau cyfansoddiadol sylfaenol? Sut all Ysgrifennydd Gwladol Cymru anwybyddu ewyllys democrataidd y Cynulliad? Dyna fy mhwynt cyntaf.

My second point is linked to that, because we have been waiting since the Assembly’s inception for the publication of the review of its decisions and how the Executive intends to implement them. For some reason, that review has been considerably delayed and we would welcome your views, Jane, on when it is likely to be published.

Mae fy ail bwynt yn gysylltiedig â hynny, oherwydd yr ydym yn aros ers dechreuad y Cynulliad am gyhoeddi’r adolygiad o’i benderfyniadau a sut y bwriada’r Weithrediaeth eu gweithredu. Am ryw reswm, bu cryn oedi ar yr adolygiad hwnnw, a chroesawem eich sylwadau, Jane, ynghylch pa bryd y mae’n debygol o gael ei gyhoeddi.

Jenny Randerson spoken in English p. 19

Jenny Randerson siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 19

Further to that point of order. I share Ieuan’s concern about Paul Murphy’s words. I would be pleased if you would consider the situation in relation to the protocol that we have agreed with the Secretary for State for Wales, because it could be against the spirit of that protocol, if not against the wording of it.

Ymhellach i’r pwynt hwnnw o drefn. Yr wyf innau’n rhannu pryder Ieuan ynghylch geiriau Paul Murphy. Byddwn yn falch pe baech yn ystyried y sefyllfa mewn perthynas â’r protocol y cytunasom arno gydag Ysgrifennydd Gwladol Cymru, oherwydd gallai fod yn groes i ysbryd y protocol hwnnw, os nad yn groes i’w eiriad.

Nick Bourne spoken in English p. 19

Nick Bourne siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 19

Further to that point of order. This is the latest in a long line of instances where the administration—and by extension the Secretary of State for Wales—has chosen to ignore the Assembly’s resolutions. It is against the spirit of devolution. This issue is the latest example; others include a statutory cap on councillors’ allowances and a Wales free from genetically modified crops. It is incumbent on the Secretary of State for Wales to take account of what we have said and give a considered opinion, rather than the sort of knee-jerk reaction that we saw yesterday, which was intemperate in the extreme.

Ymhellach i’r pwynt hwnnw o drefn. Dyma’r ddiweddaraf mewn rhes hir o achlysuron lle mae’r weinyddiaeth—a thrwy estyniad, Ysgrifennydd Gwladol Cymru—wedi dewis anwybyddu penderfyniadau’r Cynulliad. Mae’n groes i ysbryd datganoli. Y mater hwn yw’r enghraifft ddiweddaraf; mae eraill yn cynnwys terfyn statudol ar lwfansau cynghorwyr a Chymru rydd o gnydau a addaswyd yn enetig. Rhaid i Ysgrifennydd Gwladol Cymru ystyried yr hyn yr ydym wedi’i ddweud a rhoi barn ar sail ei ystyriaeth, yn hytrach na’r math o adwaith byrbwyll a welsom ddoe, a oedd yn eithriadol o anghymedrol.

Jane Davidson The Deputy Presiding Officer spoken in English p. 19

Jane Davidson Y Dirprwy Lywydd siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 19

As the Presiding Officer announced two weeks ago, the Office of the Presiding Officer has produced a legal digest of resolutions and posted them to the intranet. How these have been addressed is a matter for the Executive.

Fel y cyhoeddodd y Llywydd bythefnos yn ôl, mae Swyddfa’r Llywydd wedi llunio crynhoad cyfreithiol o benderfyniadau ac wedi’u postio i’r fewnrwyd. Mater i’r Weithrediaeth yw sut yr ymdriniwyd â’r rhain.

Rhodri Morgan The First Secretary spoken in English p. 19

Rhodri Morgan Y Prif Ysgrifennydd siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 19

I am grateful to be able to speak further to Ieuan Wyn Jones’s point of order. I am at a slight disadvantage because I did not hear Paul Murphy’s words. However, my understanding is that he made a clear distinction between representing the Assembly’s views to Her Majesty’s Government and indicating whether he agreed with them. It would be possible for him to represent the Assembly’s views without indicating that he agreed with them. It must be taken into account that we have a minority administration here, which is a Labour Government, and a Labour-appointed Secretary of State for Wales in Her Majesty’s Government, which may not always be the case. Something might happen over the next 20 or 30 years. We do not know. I do not usually call on aid from spirits from the deep and ask them what if John Redwood was to return as Secretary of State for Wales, unless I am trying to frighten unruly children back to bed. However, you must still allow for a situation where the same party is not in control in Westminster as that which forms our administration. I believe that that was what Paul Murphy meant. He does not have to agree with the view in order to represent it to the UK Cabinet as the Assembly’s resolution.

Yr wyf yn ddiolchgar am gael siarad ymhellach ar bwynt o drefn Ieuan Wyn Jones. Yr wyf dan ychydig o anfantais oherwydd na chlywais eiriau Paul Murphy. Fodd bynnag, fy nealltwriaeth i yw iddo wahaniaethu’n glir rhwng cyflwyno barn y Cynulliad i Lywodraeth Ei Mawrhydi a nodi a oedd ef yn cytuno â hi. Byddai’n bosibl iddo gyfleu sylwadau’r Cynulliad heb ddweud ei fod yn cytuno â hwy. Rhaid cymryd i ystyriaeth fod gennym weinyddiaeth leiafrifol yma, sydd yn Llywodraeth Lafur, ac Ysgrifennydd Gwladol i Gymru yn Llywodraeth Ei Mawrhydi sydd wedi’i benodi gan Lafur, ac nad dyna sut y bydd hi o reidrwydd am byth. Gallai rhywbeth ddigwydd yn ystod yr 20 neu 30 mlynedd nesaf. Ni wyddom. Ni fyddaf fel arfer yn galw am gymorth gan ysbrydion o’r dyfnderoedd i’w holi beth petai John Redwood yn dychwelyd fel Ysgrifennydd Gwladol Cymru, oni bai fy mod yn ceisio dychryn plant anystywallt yn ôl i’w gwelyau. Fodd bynnag, mae’n rhaid ichi ganiatáu o hyd ar gyfer sefyllfa lle nad yr un blaid sydd yn rheoli yn San Steffan ag sydd yn ffurfio’n gweinyddiaeth ni. Credaf mai dyna yr oedd Paul Murphy yn ei feddwl. Nid oes raid iddo gytuno â’r farn er mwyn ei chynrychioli yng Nghabinet y DU fel penderfyniad y Cynulliad.

Andrew Davies The Business Secretary spoken in English p. 20

Andrew Davies Y Trefnydd siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 20

I want to comment on Ieuan’s second point about the Executive’s response to motions that have been accepted by the Assembly. As Ieuan should know, my officials published a notice that was made available to Members not long after the Presiding Officer announced his website. That notice highlighted the Assembly’s decisions and gave a chapter and verse on each one. The Executive was asked to take action on 66 motions and was able to demonstrate that we had taken action or were in the process of implementing them. There were a further 17 motions that did not call on the Executive to act, but called on others such as Subject Committees, to do so. Therefore, we are mindful of the Assembly’s decisions. We have accepted the points that have been made and have made that information available to all Assembly Members, as you will note if you look back through your e-mails.

Hoffwn wneud sylw ar ail bwynt Ieuan ynghylch ymateb y Weithrediaeth i gynigion a dderbyniwyd gan y Cynulliad. Fel y dylai Ieuan wybod, cyhoeddodd fy swyddogion hysbysiad a oedd ar gael i Aelodau yn fuan wedi i’r Llywydd gyhoeddi ei wefan. Yr oedd yr hysbysiad hwnnw’n rhoi sylw i benderfyniadau’r Cynulliad ac yn rhoi pennod ac adnod ar bob un. Gofynnwyd i’r Weithrediaeth weithredu ar 66 o gynigion a gallwyd dangos ein bod wedi cymryd camau neu yn y broses o’u gweithredu. Yr oedd 17 o gynigion pellach nad oedd yn galw ar y Weithrediaeth i weithredu, ond a oedd yn galw am weithredu gan eraill, fel y Pwyllgorau Pwnc. Felly, yr ydym yn rhoi sylw i benderfyniadau’r Cynulliad. Yr ydym wedi derbyn y pwyntiau a wnaethpwyd ac wedi sicrhau bod yr wybodaeth honno ar gael i holl Aelodau’r Cynulliad, fel y sylwch os edrychwch yn ôl drwy’ch e-bost.

David Davies spoken in English p. 20

David Davies siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 20

Point of order. I wrote to the Office of the Presiding Officer several weeks ago to ask whether the pro-sterling group, Business for Sterling, could hold an exhibition in the milling area. I was informed that that would not be possible, despite the fact that European Commission leaflets on display in the milling area a week before exalted the so-called virtues of the euro. I was told that it would not be possible for Business for Sterling to do that because it is a political organisation. I accepted the ruling because it is important to accept rulings from the Office of the Presiding Officer. However, I was disappointed to see the Cymru-Cuba organisation in the milling area today. Whether or not one agrees with its views is irrelevant; it makes controversial political statements. One leaflet implies that the Cuban American National Foundation

Pwynt o drefn. Ysgrifennais at Swyddfa’r Llywydd rai wythnosau yn ôl i ofyn a gâi’r grŵp o blaid y bunt, ‘Business for Sterling’, gynnal arddangosfa yn y neuadd. Dywedwyd wrthyf na fyddai hynny’n bosibl, er gwaethaf y ffaith fod taflenni’r Comisiwn Ewropeaidd a oedd ar ddangos yn y neuadd wythnos ynghynt yn canu clodydd honedig yr ewro. Dywedwyd wrthyf na fyddai’n bosibl i ‘Business for Sterling’ wneud hynny am ei fod yn gorff gwleidyddol. Derbyniais y dyfarniad am ei bod yn bwysig derbyn dyfarniadau gan Swyddfa’r Llywydd. Fodd bynnag, yr oeddwn yn siomedig o weld mudiad Cymru-Cuba yn y neuadd heddiw. Boed rhywun yn cytuno â’i farn ai peidio, y mae’n gwneud datganiadau gwleidyddol dadleuol. Mae un daflen yn dweud fod Sefydliad Cenedlaethol Cuba America

‘has been responsible for numerous acts of terrorism, murder and sabotage against Cuba. CANF and its Bacardi backers are part of a web of conspiracy against Cuba involving other rightwing Cuban exiles, US politicians and the CIA.’

‘wedi bod yn gyfrifol am nifer o weithredoedd o derfysgaeth, llofruddiaeth a sabotage yn erbyn Cuba. Mae CANF a’i gefnogwyr Bacardi yn rhan o we o gynllwyn yn erbyn Cuba sydd yn cynnwys alltudion asgell-dde eraill o Guba, gwleidyddion yr Unol Daleithiau a’r CIA.’

Given that the Ambassador of the United States of America, Philip Lader, was our guest in the Assembly and many of us will be guests of the American Embassy at a garden party later this month—[ASSEMBLY MEMBERS: ‘Oh.’]—not necessarily myself, I hasten to add—it is a disgrace that an organisation is allowed to make comments about American politicians and companies in this country—respectable companies, such as Bacardi, which generates employment and revenue—and yet an organisation that merely believes that keeping sterling would be good is not allowed to have a stand in the milling area.

O ystyried y bu Llysgennad Unol Daleithiau America, Philip Lader, yma yn westai inni yn y Cynulliad ac y bydd llawer ohonom yn westeion yn Llysgenhadaeth America mewn garddwest yn ddiweddarach y mis yma—[AELODAU’R CYNULLIAD: ‘O.’]—nid y fi o reidrwydd, brysiaf i ychwanegu—mae’n gywilydd fod sefydliad yn cael gwneud sylwadau am wleidyddion Americanaidd ac am gwmnïau yn y wlad hon—cwmnïau parchus, fel Bacardi, sydd yn creu cyflogaeth a refeniw—ac eto na chaniateir i sefydliad sydd yn credu dim ond y byddai cadw’r bunt yn beth da gael stondin yn y neuadd.

If there is to be consistency, Business for Sterling should be allowed to have a stand. The rules must apply to all regardless. If we are to have political organisations, that is fair enough. Cymru—Cuba is entitled to its views, although they are wrong. Its representatives met schoolchildren in the milling area. They told me earlier that Cuba was a democratic country and that the people of Cuba want Fidel Castro. I merely ask for one rule for all and for you to revisit the decision not to allow Business for Sterling to have a stand in the milling area.

Os ydym am gael cysondeb, dylid caniatáu i ‘Business for Sterling’ gael stondin. Rhaid i’r rheolau fod yr un fath i bawb. Os ydym am gael mudiadau gwleidyddol, mae hynny’n ddigon teg. Mae gan Gymru—Cuba hawl i’w farn, er ei bod yn anghywir. Cyfarfu ei gynrychiolwyr â phlant ysgol yn y neuadd. Dywedasant wrthyf yn gynharach fod Cuba’n wlad ddemocrataidd a bod pobl Cuba eisiau Fidel Castro. Dim ond gofyn yr wyf am un rheol i bawb ac ichi ailystyried y penderfyniad i beidio â chaniatáu i ‘Business for Sterling’ gael stondin yn y neuadd.

Alun Cairns spoken in English p. 21

Alun Cairns siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 21

Further to that point of order—

Ymhellach i’r pwynt hwnnw o drefn—

Jane Davidson The Deputy Presiding Officer spoken in English p. 21

Jane Davidson Y Dirprwy Lywydd siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 21

Order. I cannot accept comments further to that point of order by a Member of the same party.

Trefn. Ni allaf dderbyn sylwadau ymhellach i’r pwynt hwnnw o drefn gan Aelod o’r un blaid.

Nick Bourne spoken in English p. 21

Nick Bourne siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 21

You had two comments on a point of order from Labour earlier.

Cawsoch ddau sylw ar bwynt o drefn gan Lafur yn gynharach.

Jane Davidson The Deputy Presiding Officer spoken in English p. 22

Jane Davidson Y Dirprwy Lywydd siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 22

That was because the Executive was responding to the point of order.

Yr oedd hynny oherwydd bod y Weithrediaeth yn ymateb i’r pwynt o drefn.

The Cymru-Cuba exhibition was agreed by the Presiding Officer on 12 June 2000. It is concerned with health centres, hospitals and ambulance appeals for Cuba. It is an exhibition for charitable purposes, not a political one. If you have any other—

Cytunwyd i’r arddangosfa Cymru-Cuba gan y Llywydd ar 12 Mehefin 2000. Mae’n ymwneud â chanolfannau iechyd, ysbytai ac apeliadau ambiwlans i Guba. Arddangosfa i ddibenion elusennol, nid gwleidyddol, ydyw. Os oes gennych unrhyw—

Nick Bourne spoken in English p. 22

Nick Bourne siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 22

This is ridiculous, Jane.

Mae hyn yn chwerthinllyd, Jane.

Jane Davidson The Deputy Presiding Officer spoken in English p. 22

Jane Davidson Y Dirprwy Lywydd siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 22

When I respond to a point of order, please allow me to finish. If you have further representations that you wish to make to the Presiding Officer about any other exhibition, you are free to do so.

Pan ymatebaf i bwynt o drefn, gadewch imi orffen os gwelwch yn dda. Os oes gennych sylwadau pellach y dymunwch eu gwneud i’r Llywydd am unrhyw arddangosfa arall, mae croeso ichi wneud.

Nick Bourne spoken in English p. 22

Nick Bourne siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 22

Point of order. On the handling of questions this afternoon. I realise that you took advice, but we need consistency when questions are missed. It is unfair. Yesterday, Cynog Dafis was not here for question 1 and he was not subsequently called. Today, Owen John Thomas missed question 1; he came in later and was still called. We need consistency of practice. I suggest that, if somebody is not here when their question is called, it is inappropriate for them to be called later. Otherwise, we will face problems of people arriving much later, having missed their questions, and disrupting the order. We need consistency and I would like you to rule on this now so that we know what the future practice will be.

Pwynt o drefn. Ar y modd y deliwyd â chwestiynau y prynhawn yma. Yr wyf yn sylweddoli y cymerasoch gyngor, ond mae arnom angen cysondeb wrth hepgor cwestiynau. Mae’n annheg. Ddoe, nid oedd Cynog Dafis yma ar gyfer cwestiwn 1 ac ni chafodd ei alw wedyn. Heddiw, collodd Owen John Thomas gwestiwn 1; daeth i mewn yn ddiweddarach a chafodd ei alw. Mae angen cysondeb ymarfer. Awgrymaf i, os nad yw rhywun yma pan elwir eu cwestiwn, ei bod yn amhriodol eu galw yn ddiweddarach. Fel arall, fe wynebwn broblemau gyda phobl yn cyrraedd yn llawer hwyrach, wedi colli eu cwestiynau, ac yn tarfu ar y drefn. Mae angen cysondeb, a hoffwn ichi ddyfarnu ar hyn yn awr er mwyn inni gael gwybod beth fydd yr arfer am y dyfodol.

Jenny Randerson spoken in English p. 22

Jenny Randerson siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 22

Further to that point of order. I share Nick’s concern about that. It is important that we have a ruling today and that we stick to it. My preference is—although it would be sad if I were to be late one day and miss my question—for you to rule that, if people are not here, they do not have the opportunity to return to their questions. Otherwise, there is a chance that the dignity of proceedings will be undermined by the fact that we will be happy to turn up late.

Ymhellach i’r pwynt hwnnw o drefn. Rhannaf bryder Nick ynglŷn â hynny. Mae’n bwysig ein bod yn cael dyfarniad heddiw a’n bod yn glynu ato. Fy newis i—er y byddai’n drist pe bawn i’n hwyr ryw ddydd ac yn colli fy nghwestiwn—yw ichi ddyfarnu os nad yw pobl yma, na chânt y cyfle i ddychwelyd at eu cwestiynau. Fel arall, mae siawns y tanseilir urddas ein trafodaethau gan y ffaith y byddwn yn hapus i gyrraedd yn hwyr.

Cynog Dafis siaradwyd yn Gymraeg t. 23

Cynog Dafis spoken in Welsh p. 23

Ymhellach i’r pwynt o drefn hwnnw, mea culpa, ond er mwyn cael pethau yn glir, cefais gynnig ddoe i ofyn fy nghwestiwn er fy mod i’n hwyr. Yn anffodus roeddwn wedi gadael fy nodiadau yn f’ystafell a methais â manteisio ar y cyfle.

Further to that point of order, mea culpa, but to clarify matters, I received an offer yesterday to ask my question although I was late. Unfortunately I had left my notes in my room and I failed to take advantage of the opportunity.

Jane Davidson The Deputy Presiding Officer spoken in English p. 23

Jane Davidson Y Dirprwy Lywydd siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 23

Thank you for that helpful clarification. There was a particular reason why I allowed the questions to be taken today. Those who printed out copies of the questions earlier this morning would have seen that the questions were in reverse order. The questions to the Secretary for Agriculture and Rural Development were printed first and the questions to the Secretary for Education and Children printed second. On that basis, on this singular occasion, I felt that it was appropriate that, since Members might have thought that the agenda reflected the order in which the Assembly questions were placed on our intranet, I should revert and allow those people whose questions were at the front of the agenda to have the opportunity to ask the question. However, more generally, there is a danger in being kind to latecomers in that it removes the incentive for people to be in this Chamber in good time. In future, if somebody is not here for their question and there are no technological problems, we should take questions in the order on the agenda and if somebody is not here they should lose their question. I hope that you consider that ruling to be helpful.

Diolch am yr eglurhad buddiol hwnnw. Yr oedd rheswm arbennig pam y caniateais i’r cwestiynau gael eu cymryd heddiw. Byddai’r rheini a allbrintiodd gopïau o’r cwestiynau’n gynharach y bore yma wedi gweld bod y cwestiynau’n rhedeg tuag yn ôl. Daeth y cwestiynau i’r Ysgrifennydd Amaethyddiaeth a Datblygu Gwledig allan gyntaf a’r cwestiynau i’r Ysgrifennydd Addysg a Phlant yn ail. Ar y sail honno, dim ond am y tro hwn, gan y gallasai Aelodau gredu fod yr agenda’n adlewyrchu’r drefn y gosodwyd cwestiynau’r Cynulliad ynddi ar ein mewnrwyd, meddyliais y byddai’n briodol imi ganiatáu i’r bobl hynny oedd â’u cwestiynau ar ben yr agenda gael y cyfle i ofyn eu cwestiwn. Fodd bynnag, yn fwy cyffredinol, y mae perygl o fod yn garedig wrth hwyrddyfodiaid gan fod hynny’n dileu’r cymhelliad i bobl gyrraedd y Siambr hon mewn da bryd. Yn y dyfodol os na fydd rhywun yma ar gyfer eu cwestiwn ac os nad oes problemau technolegol dylem gymryd y cwestiynau yn y drefn ar yr agenda a dylai’r sawl sydd yn absennol golli eu cwestiwn. Gobeithio y teimlwch fod y dyfarniad hwnnw’n ddefnyddiol.

Cymeradwyo Gorchymyn Cynulliad Cenedlaethol Cymru (Trosglwyddo Swyddogaethau) (Amrywio) 2000 (Rhan 2 y Gorchymyn yn dibynnu ar

Gymeradwyaeth Seneddol)

Approval of The National Assembly for Wales (Transfer of Functions)

(Variations) Order 2000 (Part 2 Order subject to Parliamentary Approval)

Rosemary Butler The Secretary for Education and Children spoken in English p. 23

Rosemary Butler Yr Ysgrifennydd Addysg a Phlant siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 23

I propose that

Cynigiaf fod

Rosemary Butler The Secretary for Education and Children (continued) spoken in English p. 24

Rosemary Butler Yr Ysgrifennydd Addysg a Phlant (parhad) siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 24

The variations of the Transfer of Functions Order 1999 will allow the National Assembly and the Secretary of State for Education and Employment to exercise concurrently the powers under section 218(6) of the Education Reform Act 1988 to bar or restrict employment in the education sector. Historically, the powers to bar or restrict a person’s employment in the education service in England and Wales were exercised exclusively by a dedicated unit in the Department for Education and Employment. Given the unit’s expertise and specialist knowledge they have continued to operate on our behalf since the powers in respect of Wales were transferred to the Assembly under the Transfer of Functions Order 1999.

Bydd yr amrywiadau ar Orchymyn Trosglwyddo Swyddogaethau 1999 yn caniatáu i’r Cynulliad Cenedlaethol a’r Ysgrifennydd Gwladol dros Addysg a Chyflogaeth arfer yn gydredol y grymoedd dan adran 218(6) Deddf Diwygio Addysg 1988 i wahardd neu gyfyngu cyflogaeth yn y sector addysg. Yn hanesyddol, arferwyd y grymoedd i wahardd neu gyfyngu ar gyflogi person yn y gwasanaeth addysg yng Nghymru a Lloegr gan uned benodol yn unig yn yr Adran Addysg a Chyflogaeth. Oherwydd arbenigedd a gwybodaeth arbenigol yr uned maent wedi parhau i weithredu ar ein rhan ers i’r grymoedd yng nghyswllt Cymru gael eu trosglwyddo i’r Cynulliad dan Orchymyn Trosglwyddo Swyddogaethau 1999.

Recently, however, the legal basis of the agreement between the Assembly and the Department for Education and Employment has been re-examined and has been found to be wanting. We therefore have to find a sound, acceptable, alternative solution to ensure that consideration will be given to all cases which may result in the person being barred from the education sector or have their employment restricted in England and Wales. We need to find an early solution. The Department for Education and Employment continues to bar or restrict people from relevant employment in England who are not barred or restricted in Wales. There is comfort the fact in that the names of these people continue to be added to List 99 and they can therefore be accessed and checked by potential employers. However, Welsh cases in the pipeline have been put on hold until a solution can be found that will not put into doubt the validity of the bar or restriction. We need to ensure that the people involved are not allowed the opportunity to get back into employment in education through the back door.

Yn ddiweddar, fodd bynnag, ailarchwiliwyd sail gyfreithiol y cytundeb rhwng y Cynulliad a’r Adran Addysg a Chyflogaeth a chanfod ei fod yn ddiffygiol. Felly mae’n rhaid inni ganfod ateb arall cadarn, derbyniol i sicrhau y rhoddir ystyriaeth i bob achos a all arwain at wahardd neu gyfyngu cyflogaeth rhywun yn y sector addysg yng Nghymru a Lloegr fel ei gilydd. Mae angen canfod ateb buan. Mae’r Adran Addysg a Chyflogaeth yn parhau i wahardd neu gyfyngu pobl rhag cyflogaeth berthnasol yn Lloegr a hwythau heb eu gwahardd na’u cyfyngu yng Nghymru. Y mae cysur yn y ffaith fod enwau’r bobl hyn yn dal i gael eu hychwanegu at Restr 99 ac y gall darpar gyflogwyr felly gael yr wybodaeth berthnasol. Fodd bynnag, mae achosion Cymreig sydd yn yr arfaeth wedi’u dal yn ôl hyd nes gellir cael ateb na fydd yn bwrw amheuaeth ar ddilysrwydd y gwaharddiad neu’r cyfyngiad. Mae angen sicrhau na chaniateir cyfle i’r bobl hyn ddod yn ôl i mewn i swydd ym myd addysg drwy’r drws cefn.

The variation Order offers an immediate solution. It will again allow the Secretary of State for Education and Employment to exercise the barring and restricting functions for both England and Wales and the dedicated unit in the Department for Education and Employment will be able to move forward straight away to tackle the outstanding Welsh cases. The Assembly will retain the power to bar and restrict employment in Wales and nothing will be given away. That is important. We can give reasoned consideration to whether or how we wish to administer the powers in the future in the safe knowledge that no people are slipping through the net. The Order before us is largely a technical measure needed only to solve a technical problem, albeit one of substance. In doing so, it does nothing to remove or dilute the Assembly’s current powers and does not alter the principle that the Assembly should have the functions that were previously the responsibility of the Secretary of State for Wales. The Order provides only for the powers in section 218(6) of the Education Reform Act 1998, which will be exercised concurrently by the Assembly and the Secretary of State for Education and Employment.

Mae’r Gorchymyn amrywio’n cynnig ateb yn syth. Bydd yn caniatáu eto i’r Ysgrifennydd Gwladol dros Addysg a Chyflogaeth arfer y swyddogaethau gwahardd a chyfyngu dros Gymru a Lloegr fel ei gilydd a bydd yr uned benodol yn yr Adran Addysg a Chyflogaeth yn gallu symud ymlaen yn syth i fynd i’r afael â’r achosion Cymreig sydd wedi’u dal yn ôl. Bydd y Cynulliad yn cadw’r grym i wahardd a chyfyngu ar gyflogaeth yng Nghymru ac ni chaiff dim ei ildio. Mae hynny’n bwysig. Gallwn roi ystyriaeth resymedig i’r cwestiwn a ydym am weinyddu’r grymoedd yn y dyfodol ac, os ydym, sut, gan wybod i sicrwydd nad oes neb yn llithro drwy’r rhwyd. Mesur technegol i raddau helaeth yw’r Gorchymyn ger ein bron nad oes ond ei angen i ddatrys problem dechnegol, er bod honno’n un sylweddol. Wrth wneud hyn, ni wneir dim i ddwyn na glastwreiddio grymoedd cyfredol y Cynulliad ac ni newidir yr egwyddor y dylai’r Cynulliad gael y swyddogaethau a oedd gynt yn gyfrifoldeb Ysgrifennydd Gwladol Cymru. Darpara’r Gorchymyn ddim ond ar gyfer y grymoedd yn adran 218(6) Deddf Diwygio Addysg 1998, a weithredir yn gydredol gan y Cynulliad a’r Ysgrifennydd Gwladol dros Addysg a Chyflogaeth.

This Order is not Assembly subordinate legislation; it is the responsibility of the UK Government. Nevertheless, section 22(4)(b) of the Government of Wales Act 1998 requires the Assembly to approve the Order before it can be made. If the Assembly does so, the Order will then be considered by both Houses of Parliament before being made by the Privy Council at the earliest opportunity. This Order should not be seen as contentious. It does no more than allow the Assembly to ensure that barring or restricting people from employment in education in Wales can proceed as before. It is in no one’s interest to let these people, who should be caught by regulations, slip back into employment through the back door. I hope that we can unanimously support this Order.

Nid deddfwriaeth sydd yn ddarostyngedig i’r Cynulliad yw’r Gorchymyn hwn; mae’n gyfrifoldeb Llywodraeth y DU. Serch hynny, dan adran 22(4)(b) Deddf Llywodraeth Cymru 1998, rhaid i’r Cynulliad gymeradwyo’r Gorchymyn cyn y gellir ei wneud. Os gwna’r Cynulliad hynny, yna ystyrir y Gorchymyn gan ddau Dŷ’r Senedd cyn ei lunio gan y Cyfrin Gyngor ar y cyfle cyntaf. Ni ddylid gweld y Gorchymyn hwn fel un dadleuol. Ni wna ddim mwy na chaniatáu i’r Cynulliad sicrhau y gall gwahardd neu gyfyngu ar gyflogaeth pobl mewn addysg yng Nghymru fynd rhagddo fel cynt. Nid yw o fudd i neb ganiatáu i’r bobl hyn, a ddylai gael eu dal gan reoliadau, sleifio yn ôl i mewn i gyflogaeth drwy’r drws cefn. Gobeithio y gallwn gefnogi’r Gorchymyn hwn yn unfrydol.

Gareth Jones siaradwyd yn Gymraeg t. 25

Gareth Jones spoken in Welsh p. 25

Yr wyf yn gofyn am eglurhad yn bennaf, Ysgrifennydd. Mae’r offeryn yn cyfeirio at wahardd unigolion ar sail feddygol ac addysgol. Beth fydd y berthynas rhwng yr offeryn a Chyngor Addysgu Cyffredinol Cymru, sydd yn cael ei sefydlu ar hyn o bryd ac a fydd, yn ôl a ddeallaf, yn cadw cofrestr hefyd? Beth fydd y berthynas rhwng y ddau?

I am primarily asking for clarification, Secretary. The instrument refers to prohibiting individuals on medical and educational grounds. What will be the relationship between the instrument and the General Teaching Council for Wales, which is being established at the moment and which, I understand, will also keep a register? What will be the relationship between them?

Michael German spoken in English p. 25

Michael German siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 25

First, I declare my interest as a registered teacher. I repeat, as there may be other teachers in the Assembly who also need to declare their interest, that I declare my interest as a registered teacher. That will also be a registration to the General Teaching Council for Wales.

Yn gyntaf, yr wyf yn datgan buddiant fel athro cofrestredig. Ailadroddaf, gan y gall fod athrawon eraill yn y Cynulliad sydd angen datgan buddiant hefyd, fy mod yn datgan buddiant fel athro cofrestredig. Byddaf yn gofrestredig hefyd gyda Chyngor Addysgu Cyffredinol Cymru.

The question that has just been raised is relevant to this. If, as is my understanding, the General Teaching Council for Wales will have the right to prohibit people from being members of it on many of the grounds stated in the Order before us, why is the power not transferred wholly to the National Assembly? You referred in your statement to England and Wales—and the sensibleness of this piece of legislation is not in doubt, because it is in all our interests and those of our children—but I wonder how it is managed in Scotland? Clearly, one would not wish teachers from England or Wales who fall under category D because they are not suitable to work with children, to work in Scotland. Presumably they would not be able to do that. There is clearly a need for an interrelationship between all parts of the United Kingdom on this matter.

Mae’r cwestiwn sydd newydd ei godi yn berthnasol i hyn. Os, fel y deallaf fi, y bydd gan Gyngor Addysgu Cyffredinol Cymru yr hawl i wahardd pobl rhag bod yn aelodau ohono ar lawer o’r seiliau a nodir yn y Gorchymyn ger ein bron, pam na chaiff y grym ei drosglwyddo’n llwyr i’r Cynulliad Cenedlaethol? Cyfeiriasoch yn eich datganiad at Gymru a Lloegr—ac nid oes amheuaeth ynglŷn â doethineb y darn hwn o ddeddfwriaeth, gan ei fod er ein budd ni oll a budd ein plant—ond tybed sut y’i rheolir yn yr Alban? Yn amlwg, ni fyddai neb yn dymuno i athrawon o Gymru a Lloegr a roddwyd yng nghategori D oherwydd nad ydynt yn addas i weithio gyda phlant, gael gweithio yn yr Alban. Mae’n debyg na fyddent yn gallu gwneud hynny. Yn amlwg mae angen rhyng-berthynas rhwng holl rannau’r Deyrnas Unedig ar y mater hwn.

I fail to see, given that we have a General Teaching Council for Wales, why we need to operate this concurrently with the Secretary of State. It may be, as you indicated, that the National Assembly can designate any teacher as unsuitable to work with children. If that is the case, we then, presumably, have to pass it over to the Secretary of State for Education and Employment in London. That leads to confusion. I would not want those in these categories, particularly those in category D, to fall through the net because of that back and forth administrative relationship. Given that we have a register for all teachers in Wales through the General Teaching Council for Wales, it seems to me that using the General Teaching Councils for Scotland, England, Northern Ireland and Wales to maintain a register might be more effective. Therefore, perhaps you could explain, when responding, how that relationship will work and why we have to work concurrently.

Ni allaf weld, gan fod gennym Gyngor Addysgu Cyffredinol Cymru, pam y mae angen inni weithredu hyn yn gydredol â’r Ysgrifennydd Gwladol. Efallai, fel y dywedasoch, y gall y Cynulliad Cenedlaethol enwi unrhyw athro fel un anaddas i weithio gyda phlant. Os felly, wedyn mae’n debyg fod yn rhaid inni basio’r mater drosodd i’r Ysgrifennydd Gwladol dros Addysg a Chyflogaeth yn Llundain. Mae hynny’n arwain at ddryswch. Ni fyddwn am i bobl yn y categorïau hyn, yn enwedig gategori D, syrthio drwy’r rhwyd oherwydd y berthynas ôl-a-blaen honno. Gan fod gennym gofrestr i holl athrawon Cymru yng Nghyngor Addysgu Cyffredinol Cymru, mae’n ymddangos i mi y gallai fod yn fwy effeithiol defnyddio Cynghorau Dysgu Cyffredinol yr Alban, Lloegr, Gogledd Iwerddon a Chymru i gynnal cofrestr. Felly, efallai y gallech egluro, wrth ymateb, sut y bydd y berthynas honno’n gweithio a pham y mae’n rhaid inni weithio’n gydredol.

There is a problem with much of our legislation. The figures are roughly as follows: of the powers sent to the Assembly, 3,000 are subordinate legislation and 2,000 operate concurrently with Whitehall ministers. That is part of our problem. Two-thirds of the time that we want to do something we must check with ministers in London. I worry that this might be one of those cases and that it would lead to further confusion and perhaps a lack of clarity. However, we could achieve that clarity by using the new general council and our own system.

Mae problem gyda llawer o’n deddfwriaeth. Mae’r ffigurau’n fras fel a ganlyn: o’r grymoedd a anfonwyd i’r Cynulliad, mae 3,000 yn ddeddfwriaeth isradd a 2,000 yn gweithredu’n gydredol gyda gweinidogion Whitehall. Dyna ran o’n problem. Dwy o bob tair gwaith y byddwn am wneud rhywbeth mae’n rhaid inni ofyn i weinidogion yn Llundain. Yr wyf yn poeni y gallai hwn fod yn un o’r achosion hynny ac y byddai’n arwain at fwy o ddryswch ac efallai ddiffyg eglurder. Fodd bynnag, gallem sicrhau’r eglurder hwnnw drwy ddefnyddio’r cyngor cyffredinol newydd a’n system ni’n hunain.

Rosemary Butler spoken in English p. 27

Rosemary Butler siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 27

Those were important points, including Gareth’s about how people can be excluded on medical grounds, incompetence, fraud, drug abuse, criminal records, a raft of things. However, we are not just talking about teachers here, but about anybody who works in the education system or in a school. The general teaching council is not up and running yet; it will be running from next September. What we have here, Mike, is a short-term solution to something that could cause us problems. No one has fallen through the net yet and we must ensure that it does not happen. We thought that we had a good system, but the legal bods decided that there could be cause for appeal. This is a double safety net for the moment. As I said in my preamble, it will give us time to consider exactly what we want to do, in conjunction with the general teaching council, once that has been set up. You asked about our concurrent powers. That is the best way of dealing with the situation at the moment. We need to ensure that cross-border issues with Ireland and Scotland are taken on board, but I understand that List 99 is available to everyone in the UK. In taking on board your concerns this afternoon, I am asking you to support this resolution because it is a way forward which will give us time. We can take one or two years to decide what we want to do, in the safe knowledge that no-one is going to slip through the net in the short term.

Yr oedd y rheini’n bwyntiau pwysig, yn cynnwys pwynt Gareth ynghylch sut y gellir gwahardd pobl am resymau meddygol, anallu, twyll, camddefnyddio cyffuriau, hanes troseddol, pob math o bethau. Fodd bynnag, nid sôn am athrawon yn unig yr ydym yma, ond am unrhyw un sydd yn gweithio yn y system addysg neu mewn ysgol. Nid yw’r cyngor dysgu cyffredinol ar ei draed eto; bydd yn gweithredu o fis Medi nesaf ymlaen. Beth sydd gennym yma, Mike, yw ateb tymor byr i rywbeth a allai achosi problemau inni. Nid oes neb wedi syrthio drwy’r rhwyd eto a rhaid inni sicrhau na ddigwydd hynny. Yr oeddem yn meddwl fod gennym system dda, ond penderfynodd y cyfreithwyr y gallai fod achos dros apêl. Mae hwn yn rhwyd diogelwch dwbl am y tro. Fel y dywedais yn fy rhagymadrodd, bydd yn rhoi amser inni ystyried yn union beth yr ydym am ei wneud, yng nghyswllt y cyngor dysgu cyffredinol, unwaith y bydd wedi’i sefydlu. Holasoch am ein grymoedd cydredol. Dyna’r ffordd orau o ddelio â’r sefyllfa ar hyn o bryd. Mae angen inni sicrhau y rhoddir sylw i faterion trawsffiniol gydag Iwerddon a’r Alban, ond deallaf fod Rhestr 99 ar gael i bawb yn y DU. Wrth dderbyn eich pryderon y prynhawn yma, yr wyf yn gofyn ichi gefnogi’r penderfyniad hwn gan ei fod yn ffordd ymlaen a fydd yn rhoi amser inni. Gallwn gymryd blwyddyn neu ddwy i benderfynu beth yr ydym am ei wneud, gan wybod yn sicr nad oes neb yn mynd i lithro drwy’r rhwyd yn y tymor byr.

Jane Davidson The Deputy Presiding Officer spoken in English p. 27

Jane Davidson Y Dirprwy Lywydd siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 27

I call for a vote on the motion.

Galwaf am bleidlais ar y cynnig.

Jenny Randerson spoken in English p. 27

Jenny Randerson siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 27

As we are voting, I should declare that I am a registered teacher. It is important that we make this clear.

Gan ein bod yn pleidleisio, dylwn ddatgan fy mod yn athrawes gofrestredig. Mae’n bwysig ein bod yn gwneud hyn yn glir.

Jane Davidson The Deputy Presiding Officer spoken in English p. 28

Jane Davidson Y Dirprwy Lywydd siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 28

I ask all those who are registered teachers to stand up and we shall record their names.

Gofynnaf i bawb sydd yn athrawon cofrestredig sefyll a chofnodir eu henwau.

Mick Bates, Christine Chapman, Cynog Dafis, Andrew Davies, Ron Davies, Sue Essex, Michael German, Christine Humphreys, Gareth Jones, Jenny Randerson, Janet Ryder and Owen John Thomas rose.

Mick Bates, Christine Chapman, Cynog Dafis, Andrew Davies, Ron Davies, Sue Essex, Michael German, Christine Humphreys, Gareth Jones, Jenny Randerson, Janet Ryder ac Owen John Thomas a gododd.

Cynnig Rosemary Butler t. 28

Motion Rosemary Butler p. 28

DerbyniwydAdopted O blaidFor 46 YmatalAbstain 0 Yn erbynAgainst 0

Derbyniwyd y cynnig.

Motion adopted.

Sut y pleidleisiodd yr AelodauHow Members voted
O blaidFor (46)
  • Lorraine Barrett
  • Mick Bates
  • Peter Black
  • Nick Bourne
  • Rosemary Butler
  • Christine Chapman
  • Cynog Dafis
  • Andrew Davies
  • Geraint Davies
  • Glyn Davies
  • Jocelyn Davies
  • Ron Davies
  • Richard Edwards
  • Sue Essex
  • Delyth Evans
  • Val Feld
  • Michael German
  • Brian Gibbons
  • William Graham
  • Janice Gregory
  • John Griffiths
  • Alison Halford
  • Brian Hancock
  • Edwina Hart
  • Christine Humphreys
  • Jane Hutt
  • Pauline Jarman
  • Ann Jones
  • Carwyn Jones
  • Elin Jones
  • Gareth Jones
  • Ieuan Wyn Jones
  • Peter Law
  • David Lloyd
  • David Melding
  • Tom Middlehurst
  • Rhodri Morgan
  • Alun Pugh
  • Jenny Randerson
  • Janet Ryder
  • Karen Sinclair
  • Gwenda Thomas
  • Owen John Thomas
  • Rhodri Glyn Thomas
  • Kirsty Williams
  • Phil Williams

Y Pwyllgorau Rhanbarth

The Regional Committees

Jane Davidson The Deputy Presiding Officer spoken in English p. 29

Jane Davidson Y Dirprwy Lywydd siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 29

I need to restrict this debate to just under an hour, in order to protect the debate on the Welsh language. Regional Committee Chairs have been allocated five minutes each to speak on behalf of their Committees and I will attempt to call as many incoming Chairs and other speakers as possible. I ask you to keep your contributions brief.

Mae arnaf angen cyfyngu’r ddadl hon i ychydig o dan awr, er mwyn gwarchod y ddadl ar yr iaith Gymraeg. Dyrannwyd pum munud yr un i Gadeiryddion y Pwyllgorau Rhanbarth siarad ar ran eu Pwyllgorau a cheisiaf alw cynifer o Gadeiryddion newydd a siaradwyr eraill ag sydd yn bosibl. Gofynnaf ichi gadw’ch cyfraniadau’n gryno.

Andrew Davies The Business Secretary spoken in English p. 29

Andrew Davies Y Trefnydd siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 29

I propose that

Cynigiaf fod

Christine Humphreys siaradwyd yn Gymraeg t. 29

Christine Humphreys spoken in Welsh p. 29

Cynigiaf welliant 1. Ychwaneger ar y diwedd:

I propose amendment 1. Add at the end:

Christine Humphreys (parhad) siaradwyd yn Gymraeg ac yn Saesneg t. 29

Christine Humphreys (continued) spoken in Welsh and English p. 29

Wrth gynnig fy ngwelliant, hoffwn egluro fy safbwynt diweddar ar waith y Pwyllgorau Rhanbarth.

in Welsh In proposing my amendment, I would like to explain my recent viewpoint on the Regional Committees’ work.

I want to make it clear that neither my recent comments concerning the North Wales Regional Committee, nor my amendment, are intended as criticism of the Committee Members or the officials who serve it. My comments were, and are, intended to highlight the weaknesses in the Committee’s constitution, and all other Regional Committees, and how the lack of powers vested in them make them less relevant to life in those regions of Wales than they should be.

yn Saesneg Hoffwn ei gwneud yn glir na fwriedir fy sylwadau diweddar ynghylch Pwyllgor Rhanbarth y Gogledd, na’m gwelliant, fel beirniadaeth o Aelodau’r Pwyllgor na’r swyddogion sydd yn ei wasanaethu. Bwriad fy sylwadau oedd, ac yw, tynnu sylw at y gwendidau yng nghyfansoddiad y Pwyllgor, a’r holl Bwyllgorau Rhanbarth eraill, a’r modd y mae’r diffyg pwerau a freiniwyd ynddynt yn eu gwneud yn llai perthnasol i fywyd yn y rhanbarthau hynny o Gymru nag y dylent fod.

During the last 12 months, the North Wales Regional Committee has had interesting meetings. It has listened to presentations. However, with the exception of the sustainability roadshow, and the Objective 1 meeting, it has been able to do little with the information provided, apart from write to Assembly Committees. As far as I am aware—and I stand to be corrected on this—no responses from Standing Committees have been reported to the North Wales Regional Committee.

yn Saesneg Yn ystod y 12 mis diwethaf, cafodd Pwyllgor Rhanbarth y Gogledd gyfarfodydd diddorol. Gwrandawodd ar gyflwyniadau. Fodd bynnag, ac eithrio’r sioe deithiol ar gynaliadwyedd, a’r cyfarfod Amcan 1, ychydig iawn y gallodd ei wneud gyda’r wybodaeth a roddwyd, ar wahân i ysgrifennu at Bwyllgorau’r Cynulliad. Hyd y gwn i—ac yr wyf yn agored i’m cywiro ar hyn—ni chafodd unrhyw atebion gan Bwyllgorau Sefydlog eu hadrodd i Bwyllgor Rhanbarth y Gogledd.

I recently met someone who made a presentation to the Committee and his disappointment in and frustration at our lack of powers was clear. He said,

yn Saesneg Cyfarfûm â rhywun yn ddiweddar a wnaeth gyflwyniad i’r Pwyllgor ac yr oedd ei siom a’i rwystredigaeth gyda’n diffyg pwerau yn amlwg. Meddai,

‘I made my presentation and you listened politely, but that is all you were able to do. You were listening in a vacuum, because you have not done anything with all the information that I gave you.’

yn Saesneg ‘Gwneuthum fy nghyflwyniad a gwrandawsoch yn gwrtais, ond dyna’r cwbl yr oeddech yn gallu’i wneud. Yr oeddech yn gwrando mewn gwactod, oherwydd nid ydych wedi gwneud dim gyda’r holl wybodaeth a roddais ichi.’

The Committees are an obvious example of democracy at work and on show. People are pleased to see the Committees in their area and grateful for the opportunity to voice their opinions. However, having had 12 months experience of how our Committees work, it is right that we should pause and take stock. We should go through a system of self-assessment. We expect it from other people. We should be prepared to do it ourselves.

yn Saesneg Mae’r Pwyllgorau’n enghraifft amlwg o ddemocratiaeth ar waith ac yno i bawb ei gweld. Mae pobl yn falch o weld y Pwyllgorau yn eu hardal ac yn ddiolchgar am y cyfle i leisio’u barn. Fodd bynnag, a ninnau wedi cael 12 mis o brofiad o’r modd y mae’n Pwyllgorau’n gweithio, mae’n iawn inni gamu’n ôl a chymryd stoc. Dylem fynd drwy system o hunan-asesu. Disgwyliwn hynny gan bobl eraill. Dylem fod yn barod i’w wneud ein hunain.

In north Wales, we have a special responsibility. I believe that I am correct in saying that under the Government of Wales Act 1998, the North Wales Regional Committee is the only committee that the Assembly is under a statutory obligation to create. Members of the three other Regional Committees could decide today to recommend that their Committees be disbanded, but not so the North Wales Regional Committee. It must exist.

yn Saesneg Yng ngogledd Cymru, mae gennym gyfrifoldeb arbennig. Credaf fy mod yn gywir pan ddywedaf mai Pwyllgor Rhanbarth y Gogledd yw’r unig bwyllgor y mae rheidrwydd statudol ar y Cynulliad i’w greu dan Ddeddf Llywodraeth Cymru 1998. Gallai Aelodau’r tri Phwyllgor Rhanbarth arall benderfynu heddiw eu bod am argymell diddymu’u Pwyllgorau, ond nid felly Bwyllgor Rhanbarth y Gogledd. Rhaid iddo fodoli.

The drafters of the Act were obviously aware of the deep fears in north Wales that once the Assembly was established in Cardiff, north Wales’ voices would have difficulty in making themselves heard. To a certain extent, this is true, although all Members for north Wales are working hard to raise the Assembly’s profile. We attempt to ensure that north Wales’s views are voiced in Assembly Committees and in the Chamber.

yn Saesneg Yr oedd drafftwyr y Ddeddf yn amlwg yn ymwybodol o’r ofnau dwys yng ngogledd Cymru unwaith y byddai’r Cynulliad wedi’i sefydlu yng Nghaerdydd, y byddai’n anodd i leisiau gogledd Cymru gael eu clywed. I ryw raddau, mae hyn yn wir, er bod Aelodau gogledd Cymru i gyd yn gweithio’n galed i godi proffil y Cynulliad. Ceisiwn sicrhau bod barn gogledd Cymru yn cael ei lleisio ym Mhwyllgorau’r Cynulliad ac yn y Siambr.

What is lacking, however, is the Committee’s ability to adopt a strategic approach to north Wales’s problems. We need to forge closer links with the North Wales Economic Forum and we need to find solutions to some of the problems that appear to be insurmountable. For example, in north Wales, perhaps in common with other areas, there is the issue of people with learning disabilities, specifically autism. We have already had a short debate on the situation faced by staff, parents and Denbighshire County Council, at Ysgol Plas Bron Dyffryn. In north Wales, we have the longest waiting list; those residents with learning disabilities should have been moved from Bryn-y-Neuadd years ago. Parents of autistic children are finding it increasingly difficult to get the respite care that they need. Elderly parents of autistic adults have difficulty making arrangements for the care of their children and are concerned about what will happen after their deaths.

yn Saesneg Y diffyg, fodd bynnag, yw gallu’r Pwyllgor i feithrin agwedd strategol at broblemau gogledd Cymru. Mae angen inni greu cysylltiadau agosach gyda Fforwm Economaidd Gogledd Cymru ac mae angen inni ganfod atebion i rai o’r problemau sydd yn ymddangos yn rhai amhosibl eu datrys. Er enghraifft, yng ngogledd Cymru, yn gyffredin efallai ag ardaloedd eraill, ceir problemau pobl ag anableddau dysgu, yn enwedig awtistiaeth. Yr ydym eisoes wedi cael dadl fer ar y sefyllfa a wynebir gan staff, rhieni a Chyngor Sir Ddinbych yn Ysgol Plas Bron Dyffryn. Yn ngogledd Cymru y mae’r rhestr aros hiraf; dylai’r preswylwyr hynny ag anableddau dysgu fod wedi’u symud o Fryn-y-Neuadd flynyddoedd yn ôl. Mae rhieni plant awtistig yn ei chael hi’n fwyfwy anodd cael y gofal seibiant sydd ei angen arnynt. Mae rhieni oedrannus i blant awtistig yn cael anhawster gwneud trefniadau i ofalu am eu plant ac maent yn poeni am beth fydd yn digwydd wedi iddynt farw.

These are issues that have an impact on both the Pre-16 Education Committee and the Health and Social Services Committee. I would argue that neither of these Committees has the time, with their already packed agendas, to consider a strategic answer to what is essentially a north Wales problem. There are plenty of experts in north Wales who could and would suggest answers to these problems. The Committee needs to have the power and resources to take evidence, produce a report, suggest solutions and forward it to the relevant Committees.

yn Saesneg Dyma faterion sydd yn effeithio ar y Pwyllgor Addysg Cyn-16 a’r Pwyllgor Iechyd a Gwasanaethau Cymdeithasol. Byddwn i’n dadlau nad oes gan y naill na’r llall o’r Pwyllgorau hyn yr amser, gyda’u hagendâu sydd eisoes yn llawn dop, i ystyried ateb strategol i broblem sydd yn ei hanfod yn perthyn i ogledd Cymru. Mae digonedd o arbenigwyr yng ngogledd Cymru a allai awgrymu atebion i’r problemau hyn, ac a fyddai’n fodlon gwneud hynny. Mae angen i’r Pwyllgor gael y grym a’r adnoddau i dderbyn tystiolaeth, llunio adroddiad, awgrymu atebion a’i anfon ymlaen i’r Pwyllgorau perthnasol.

In north Wales, we also need to take responsibility for, and involve ourselves in, those issues that relate specifically to us, although they have wider implications. One north Wales chief executive, with whom I spoke recently, is surprised that the North Wales Regional Committee has not discussed the Waterhouse report and, more importantly, has not called in officers from all the north Wales local authorities to detail the changes that they have implemented since the report’s publication and report our findings to the Assembly. There are other issues but time prevents me from detailing them.

yn Saesneg Yng ngogledd Cymru, mae angen inni hefyd gymryd cyfrifoldeb, a gwneud rhywbeth, am y materion hynny sydd a wnelont yn benodol â ni, er bod iddynt oblygiadau ehangach. Mae un prif weithredwr yng ngogledd Cymru, y bûm yn siarad ag ef yn ddiweddar, yn synnu nad yw Pwyllgor Rhanbarth y Gogledd wedi trafod adroddiad Waterhouse ac, yn bwysicach, ei fod heb alw swyddogion i mewn o holl awdurdodau lleol gogledd Cymru i roi manylion am y newidiadau a wnaethant ers cyhoeddi’r adroddiad, gan adrodd ein canfyddiadau i’r Cynulliad. Mae materion eraill ond mae amser yn fy rhwystro rhag manylu arnynt.

As I said earlier, my amendment will have resource implications. Our Committee clerks are only asked to dedicate one-tenth of their time to their Regional Committee work. This time allocation would need to be increased if reports were to be written. Twelve months ago, we in this Assembly were called pioneers. Twelve months’ experience means that we have to take stock and be brutally frank with ourselves and accept that the present situation needs strengthening. History would consider us timid pioneers if we were satisfied with the status quo.

yn Saesneg Fel y dywedais yn gynharach, bydd oblygiadau adnoddau i’n gwelliant. Gofynnir i’n clercod Pwyllgor roi dim ond degfed rhan o’u hamser i’w gwaith gyda’r Pwyllgorau Rhanbarthol. Byddai angen cynyddu’r dyraniad amser hwn os am ysgrifennu adroddiadau. Ddeuddeng mis yn ôl, galwyd ni yn y Cynulliad hwn yn arloeswyr. Mae deuddeng mis o brofiad yn golygu fod yn rhaid inni gymryd stoc a bod yn gignoeth o onest gyda ni’n hunain a derbyn fod angen cryfhau’r sefyllfa bresennol. Arloeswyr gwangalon fyddem yn llygaid hanes pe baem yn fodlon ar y sefyllfa fel y mae.

Gareth Jones siaradwyd yn Gymraeg t. 32

Gareth Jones spoken in Welsh p. 32

Mae’n bleser gennyf gyflwyno adroddiad ar flwyddyn gyntaf Pwyllgor Rhanbarth y Gogledd. Dymunaf ddiolch i’m cyd-Aelodau ar y Pwyllgor am fy ethol yn Gadeirydd yn ystod blwyddyn hanesyddol bwysig i bob un ohonom sydd yn gwerthfawrogi a chroesawu’r trawsnewid democrataidd a ddaeth yn sgîl sefydlu’r Cynulliad Cenedlaethol.

It is my pleasure to present a report on the first year of North Wales Regional Committee. I wish to thank my colleagues on the Committee for electing me as Chair during a historic year for each one of us who appreciates and welcomes the democratic transformation that has occurred with the establishment of the National Assembly.

Mae’n briodol ac yn ddyletswydd arnaf i ddiolch i’m cyd-Aelodau am eu hynawsedd a’u cydweithrediad yn ystod y flwyddyn ddiwethaf. Drwy gydweithio, yr ydym wedi llwyddo i ymdrin â materion o bwys mewn modd cynhwysol a di-duedd. Beth bynnag fo barn pobl Cymru am lwyddiannau neu aflwyddiannau’r Cynulliad Cenedlaethol yn y dyddiau cynnar hyn, mae’r Pwyllgorau Rhanbarth, fel y cadarnha’r adroddiadau sydd i law, yn ymgorffori’r hyn sydd orau yng ngwleidyddiaeth Cymru heddiw, sef cydweithio trawsbleidiol cynhwysol sydd yn hyrwyddo egwyddorion sylfaenol megis cyfle cyfartal, gorchfygu tlodi a datblygiad cynaliadwy. Dyna sut y gosodwyd pethau. Yr wyf wedi gwrando ar yr hyn a ddywedodd Christine a hoffwn gyffwrdd â hynny hefyd.

It is appropriate and incumbent on me to thank my colleagues for their cordiality and co-operation over the past year. Through collaboration we have succeeded in dealing with important issues in an inclusive and impartial way. Whatever the opinion of the people of Wales about the successes or otherwise of the National Assembly in these early days, the Regional Committees, as the reports that we have to hand confirm, embody the best of Welsh politics today, namely cross-party, inclusive co-operation that promotes fundamental principles such as equal opportunity, overcoming poverty and sustainable development. That is how things have been set out. I have listened carefully to what Christine said and I wish to touch on that also.

Mae sawl peth yn gyffredin i’r adroddiadau sydd ger ein bron, er enghraifft gwerthfawrogiad y cyhoedd o’r cyfle i gael mynychu cyfarfodydd a chael dweud eu dweud, i ymgyfranogi a holi a mynegi safbwyntiau, ac ati. Mae hynny i gyd yn bwysig. Mae’n rhan holl bwysig o’r drefn a’r broses ddemocrataidd y mae Christine yn cyfeirio atynt. Digon cyffelyb oedd natur y testunau a’r materion a drafodwyd gan y Pwyllgorau Rhanbarth. Mae’r pryderon yn debyg hefyd. Mae pryder ynghylch maint y cynulleidfaoedd, presenoldeb yr Aelodau, amlder y cyfarfodydd, y modd o ddewis a chytuno ar raglen waith ac, yn bennaf efallai, yr hyn sydd yn poeni Christine a nifer o Aelodau eraill, sef effeithiolrwydd a pherthnasedd y Pwyllgorau i’r rhanbarthau. Nid wyf yn gwadu hynny. Yr wyf yn derbyn bod problem a sialens. Mae nifer o Aelodau’n cytuno bod diffyg ffocws a dilyniant i drafodaethau’r Pwyllgorau, sydd yn tanseilio eu gwerth a hyd yn oed yn cwestiynu bodolaeth y Pwyllgorau hyn. Mae’r pwyntiau hyn i gyd wedi’u cofnodi a’u gwyntyllu. Nid oes angen imi ymhelaethu ar hynny. Yr wyf yn derbyn bod diffygion ac yr ydym i gyd yn gwybod beth ydynt. Y mae proses ddemocrataidd, ond mae fel pe bai’n gorffen ar ôl cyflwyno’r negeseuon neu’r cyflwyniadau. Y dilyniant sydd o bwys, ac yn y fan honno y mae’r pryderon a’r gwendid.

Many points are common to the reports before us, for example the public’s appreciation of the opportunity to attend meetings and have their say, to participate and ask questions and express views, and so on. All of that is important. It is an all-important part of the democratic system and process to which Christine refers. The nature of the topics and issues that were discussed by the Regional Committees was quite similar. The concerns are also similar. There is concern about the size of the audiences, the attendance of Members, the frequency of meetings, the means of selecting and deciding on a work programme and, primarily perhaps, that which worries Christine and many other Members, namely the effectiveness and relevance of the Committees to the regions. I do not deny that. I accept that there are problems and challenges. Many Members agree that there is a lack of focus and follow-up to the Committees’ discussions, which undermines their value and even calls into question the existence of these Committees. All of these points have been noted and aired. I do not need to expand on that. I accept that there are deficiencies and we all know what they are. There is a democratic process, but it seems to finish after the messages or presentations have been given. It is the follow-up that counts and it is there that the concerns and weakness lie.

Mae un gwahaniaeth pwysig, fel y cyfeiriodd Christine, rhwng Pwyllgor Rhanbarth y Gogledd a gweddill y Pwyllgorau Rhanbarth. Mae cyfeiriad at Bwyllgor Rhanbarth y Gogledd yn Neddf Llywodraeth Cymru, sydd yn rhoi grym statudol iddo. Fel y deallaf, y rheswm pennaf, iddo gael ei gynnwys oedd i warchod buddiannau’r Gogledd rhag ofn i’r De gymryd drosodd a bod manteision economaidd a gwelliannau o bob math yn dod i dde Cymru ac nid i’r Gogledd.

There is one important difference, as Christine said, between the North Wales Regional Committee and the other Regional Committees. The North Wales Regional Committee is referred to in the Government of Wales Act, which gives it statutory force. As I understand it, the main reason for including it was to safeguard the North’s interests in case the South should take over and that economic advantages and all kinds of improvements would come to south Wales and not to the North.

Fel y gwyddom, mae hynny’n annhebygol. Fodd bynnag, mae camargraffiadau a cham-negeseuon weithiau yn achosi canfyddiadau o’r fath—fod y Gogledd ar ei golled. Mae gan y Pwyllgor rôl allweddol i dawelu meddyliau ac adeiladu pontydd. Ni fu’r canfyddiad hwn yn destun trafod gennym yn ein Pwyllgorau, ond mae’n deg dweud o bryd i’w gilydd fod yr ymdeimlad bod y Gogledd ar ei golled o dan wyneb y trafodaethau. Ni ddaeth hynny erioed yn amlwg yn ein trafodaethau er y gwnaethpwyd sylwadau ar hyn.

As we know, that is unlikely. Sometimes, however, misimpressions and wrong messages cause such perceptions—that the North is losing out. The Committee has a key role in putting people’s minds at rest and in building bridges. We have not discussed this perception in our Committees, but it is fair to say that from time to time this feeling the North is losing out is under the surface of the discussions. It never came to the fore in our discussions although comments were made on this.

Cafodd yr ymdeimlad hwnnw sylw yn y wasg yn ddiweddar, yn ogystal ag yn y Siambr hon. Mae’n anodd perswadio pobl nad oes problem gogledd-de yng Nghymru. Ceir tlodi ac amddifadedd ym mhob cwr o’n gwlad—yng nghefn gwlad Conwy fel yn ninas Caerdydd, gyda’r breintiedig a’r difreintiedig yn byw yn yr un gymuned. Mae’n broblem genedlaethol a dylem ei datrys fel cenedl. Mae dyletswydd ar Bwyllgor Rhanbarth y Gogledd i sicrhau tegwch i gymunedau’r Gogledd. Sut y cyflawnwn hynny yw’r sialens. Byddai ymgecru agored rhwng Aelodau’r De a’r Gogledd yn gwbl wrthgynhyrchiol ac annerbyniol ac yn siŵr o arwain at raniadau niweidiol—dyna’r peth olaf yr ydym ei eisiau yn y Gymru gyfoes. Nid mater dibwys mohono, a da oedd clywed y Trefnydd yn dweud yn ddiweddar y dylid rhoi sylw i unrhyw gamddealltwriaeth neu gamganfyddiad fod cymunedau’r gogledd o dan anfantais o’u cymharu â rhanbarthau eraill o Gymru. Yr wyf yn siŵr y medrwn roi sylw i’r mater hwnnw ac yr oeddwn yn falch o glywed hynny.

This feeling has been aired in the press recently, as well as in this Chamber. It is difficult to persuade people that there is no north-south problem in Wales. Poverty and deprivation are in every corner of our country—in rural Conwy as in the city of Cardiff, with the privileged and the underprivileged living in the same community. It is a national problem and we should try to resolve it as a nation. The North Wales Regional Committee is duty-bound to ensure equity for the North’s communities. How we accomplish that is the challenge. Open bickering between the Members of the North and South would be totally counterproductive and unacceptable and would be bound to lead to damaging splits—that is the last thing that we want in contemporary Wales. It is not a trivial matter and it was good to hear the Business Secretary say recently that any misunderstanding or misperception that the communities of the north are disadvantaged compared to Wales’s other regions should be addressed. I am sure that we can address that issue and I was pleased to hear that.

Yr unig ffordd ymlaen, felly, yw sicrhau y lledaenir y negeseuon cywir a sicrhau bod y cyhoedd yn cael cyfleoedd real i ymgyfranogi yng ngweithgareddau’r Cynulliad, a’u bod, fel ninnau, yn dod i ddeall y posibiliadau a’r cyfyngiadau sydd ar y Cynulliad a bod eu disgwyliadau yn realistig a chyraeddadwy. Gyda’r ewyllys gorau yn y byd, pa welliannau bynnag y dymunem eu gweld i ennill ymddiriedaeth pobl y Gogledd yn y Cynulliad a’r broses ddemocrataidd, fe’n cyfyngir gan ddau beth o bwys mewn perthynas â Phwyllgorau Rhanbarth a’u datblygiad. Yn gyntaf, rôl ymgynghorol ac nid gweithredol sydd iddynt ac mae hynny wedi ei sefydlu. Ni fedrwn newid hynny ar hyn o bryd. Yn ail, mae diffyg adnoddau yn y Cynulliad ac o bosibl diffyg angen neu ddyhead i’w datblygu’n rymoedd gweithredol dylanwadol.

The only way forward, therefore, is to ensure that the right messages are disseminated and that the public has real opportunities to participate in the Assembly’s activities and that they, like ourselves, come to understand the possibilities and the restrictions upon the Assembly and that their expectations are realistic and attainable. With the best will in the world, whichever improvements that we would wish to see to win the trust of the people of the North in the Assembly and the democratic process, we are restricted by two important things in relation to Regional Committees and their development. First, they have an advisory rather than an executive role, which has been established. We cannot change that at present. Second, we lack the resources in the Assembly and possibly the need or the aspiration to develop them into influential executive powers.

Mae’r ddau ffactor ymarferol hynny, felly, yn dylanwadu’n drwm ar welliant rhif 1 Christine Humphreys. Maent yn rhwystrau i unrhyw newid sylweddol yn rôl y Pwyllgorau Rhanbarth yn y dyfodol agos. Mae pwynt cyntaf y gwelliant—rhoi iddynt y gallu i gymryd tystiolaeth—yn sicr o arwain at gost ychwanegol sylweddol. Efallai y byddai gan Christine fwy i’w ddweud ar hynny y tu allan i’r Siambr. Byddai’n ychwanegu at y gost ac yr wyf yn amheus, er mor dderbyniol y byddai hynny, a ddylai’r Pwyllgor Rhanbarth ddilyn y llwybr hwnnw.

Those two practical factors, therefore, have a heavy bearing on Christine Humphreys’s amendment 1. They are obstacles to any substantial change in the Regional Committees’ role in the near future. The amendment’s first point—establishing an ability to take evidence—is bound to lead to substantial additional cost. Perhaps Christine would have more to say about that outside the Chamber. It would add to the cost and I am doubtful, however desirable it would be, whether the Regional Committee should follow that path.

Er yr amheuaeth honno, yr ydym yn gefnogol i’r gwelliant yn gyffredinol. Cytunaf fod lle pendant i atgyfnerthu’r broses o wrando ar gyflwyniadau a sicrhau bod eu negeseuon yn cael sylw haeddiannol yn y Pwyllgorau Pwnc, y ceir adborth a bod yr Ysgrifennydd Cynulliad perthnasol yn cymryd sylw o’r mater. Dyna’r dyhead a’r gofyn. Mae’n bwysig fod y cylch democrataidd yn gyflawn a bod aelodau’r cyhoedd yn teimlo eu bod yn cyfrannu o ddifrif at y broses ddemocrataidd a’u bod yn rhan o’r broses honno.

Despite that doubt, we generally support the amendment. I agree that there is definite scope to strengthen the process of listening to presentations and ensuring that their messages receive the attention that they deserve in Subject Committees, that there is feedback and that the relevant Assembly Secretary pays attention to the matter. That is the desire and request. It is important that the democratic cycle is complete and that members of the public feel that they are seriously contributing to and are a part of the democratic process and that they are part of that process.

I gloi, cynigiaf un neu ddau o sylwadau a wnâi lawer i dawelu meddyliau pobl y Gogledd pan fyddant yn teimlo’n ynysig a bod y Cynulliad yn amherthnasol i’w bywydau. Yn gyntaf, da o beth fyddai i’r Prif Ysgrifennydd ymweld o bryd i’w gilydd â chyfarfodydd y Pwyllgorau Rhanbarth. Byddai hynny yn ychwanegu at hygrededd, statws ac agosatrwydd y Cynulliad yng ngolwg y rhai a fydd yn mynychu ac yn cymryd rhan yn y cyfarfodydd hynny. Byddai’n bwynt adeiladol ac yr wyf yn sicr y bydd y Prif Ysgrifennydd yn ystyried hynny.

To close, I offer one or two comments that would go a long way towards putting the minds of the people of the North at rest when they feel isolated and that the Assembly is irrelevant to their lives. First, it would be a good thing for the First Secretary to visit the Regional Committees from time to time. That would add to the credibility, status and proximity of the Assembly in the eyes of those attending and participating in those meetings. That would be a constructive point that I am sure that the First Secretary will consider.

Yn ail, gan fod rôl y Pwyllgorau Rhanbarth yn un ymgynghorol, oni ddylem sicrhau bod y Pwyllgorau Pwnc, sef y rhai â grym o ddifrif, yn cyfarfod y tu allan i Gaerdydd yn achlysurol? Gwn y byddai cost ychwanegol ynghlwm wrth hynny, ond ni fyddai’n golygu gornewid i’r gyfundrefn bresennol. Mae Pwyllgor yr Amgylchedd, Cynllunio a Thrafnidiaeth a’r Pwyllgor Addysg a Hyfforddiant Ôl-16 eisoes wedi cyfarfod yn y rhanbarthau.

Secondly, as the Regional Committees’ role is an advisory one, should we not ensure that the Subject Committees, which have the real power, meet outside Cardiff on occasion? I know that there would be an additional cost attached to that, but it would not mean a significant change in the present system. The Environment, Planning and Transport Committee and the Post-16 Education and Training Committee have already met in the regions.

Sefydlwyd y Cynulliad ar egwyddorion mawr ac ar bartneriaeth rhwng y sectorau cyhoeddus, preifat a gwirfoddol. Os nad awn allan i ledaenu’r egwyddorion hynny, mae perygl i bobl Cymru feddwl mai rhywbeth ar gyfer Caerdydd yn unig yw’r Pwyllgorau. Mae’r Pwyllgorau Rhanbarth yn ceisio lledaenu’r negeseuon, ond gwan yw’r cenhadu ar hyn o bryd. Rhaid atgyfnerthu rôl y Pwyllgorau Rhanbarth gyda gweithdrefnau mwy dychmygus a chyffrous. Dylem fynd allan i’r rhanbarthau i gynnal cyfarfodydd o’r Pwyllgorau sydd yn dylanwadu’n uniongyrchol ac yn creu polisïau a fydd, gobeithiwn, yn gwella ansawdd bywyd pobl Cymru, boed yn y De neu yn y Gogledd.

This Assembly has been established on great principles and on partnership between the private, voluntary and public sectors. If we do not go out to disseminate those principles, there is a risk that the people of Wales will think that the Committees are for Cardiff only. The Regional Committees try to disseminate the messages, but the missionary work is weak at the moment. We must reinforce the role of the Regional Committees with more imaginative and exciting procedures. We should go out to the regions to hold meetings of the Committees that directly influence and create policies that will, we hope, improve the quality of life of the people of Wales, whether in the South or in the North.

Glyn Davies spoken in English p. 36

Glyn Davies siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 36

I have been proud to be Chairman of the Mid Wales Regional Committee during its first year. I welcomed the establishment of Regional Committees because they take the Assembly to different parts of Wales and that is extremely important. I was pleased to be appointed as its first Chairman. In general, the Committee has worked well despite one concern that Christine Humphreys mentioned, although I do not feel as negatively about it.

Ymfalchïaf imi fod yn Gadeirydd Pwyllgor Rhanbarth y Canolbarth yn ystod ei flwyddyn gyntaf. Croesewais sefydlu Pwyllgorau Rhanbarth am eu bod yn mynd â’r Cynulliad i wahanol rannau o Gymru ac mae hynny’n eithriadol o bwysig. Yr oeddwn yn falch o gael fy mhenodi’n Gadeirydd cyntaf iddo. Yn gyffredinol, mae’r Pwyllgor wedi gweithio’n dda er gwaethaf un pryder a grybwyllwyd gan Christine Humphreys, er nad wyf i’n teimlo mor negyddol yn ei gylch.

The Mid Wales Regional Committee is small. The maximum number of members is eight, which can cause difficulties. One of its members is Dafydd Elis-Thomas, who, because of his position as Llywydd, has not taken up his seat although he was present at a successful meeting at Ysgol y Moelwyn in Blaenau Ffestiniog. It has also been difficult for two other Members: Alun Michael because of his time-consuming position as First Secretary and Nick Bourne since being elected leader of the Conservative group.

Pwyllgor bach yw Pwyllgor Rhanbarth y Canolbarth. Wyth yw’r nifer mwyaf o aelodau, a all achosi anawsterau. Un o’i aelodau yw Dafydd Elis Thomas, sydd, oherwydd ei safle fel Llywydd, heb gymryd ei sedd er iddo fod yn bresennol mewn cyfarfod llwyddiannus yn Ysgol y Moelwyn ym Mlaenau Ffestiniog. Bu’n anodd hefyd i ddau Aelod arall: Alun Michael oherwydd yr amser a gymerwyd gan ei swydd fel Prif Ysgrifennydd, a Nick Bourne ers cael ei ethol yn arweinydd y grŵp Ceidwadol.

I will say—while Rhodri Morgan is out of the Chamber, because the last thing I want to do is wind him up as I sometimes get a reaction—that although Alun Michael was extremely busy, he attended the Committee. The last Committee meeting was only a few days before he left the Assembly, but he came up to Blaenau Ffestiniog to attend it and by doing so he made a real commitment to the concept of the Regional Committee, for which I applaud him.

Dywedaf—tra bod Rhodri Morgan allan o’r Siambr oherwydd y peth olaf sydd arnaf eisiau’i wneud yw ei bryfocio gan fy mod weithiau’n cael adwaith—er bod Alun Michael yn hynod o brysur, mynychodd y Pwyllgor. Dim ond ychydig ddyddiau cyn iddo adael y Cynulliad yr oedd y cyfarfod Pwyllgor diwethaf, ond daeth i fyny i Flaenau Ffestiniog i’w fynychu ac wrth wneud hynny gwnaeth ymrwymiad gwirioneddol i gysyniad y Pwyllgor Rhanbarth, ac am hynny fe’i cymeradwyaf.

I have enjoyed chairing and, in part, an informal, participative and open style has influenced proceedings. I like meetings to be held in places of which the public are aware and not tucked away in some council office. One of our meetings in Welshpool is still being discussed because of the presence of the smart, grey-coated ushers on the street outside the Corn Exchange. The court meets in that building and the people of Welshpool still believe that those grey jackets are a fancy new uniform for impressive barristers. That was a general view that was circulating in the town.

Yr wyf wedi mwynhau cadeirio, ac i raddau, dylanwadwyd ar ein trafodion gan arddull anffurfiol, cyfranogol ac agored. Hoffaf gynnal cyfarfodydd mewn mannau y gŵyr y cyhoedd amdanynt ac nid o’r neilltu mewn rhyw swyddfa gyngor. Mae sôn o hyd am un o’n cyfarfodydd yn y Trallwng oherwydd presenoldeb yr hebryngwyr urddasol yn eu cotiau llwyd ar y stryd y tu allan i’r Gyfnewidfa Ŷd. Yn yr adeilad hwnnw y bydd y llys yn cyfarfod ac mae pobl y Trallwng yn dal i gredu mai gwisg newydd ffansi i fargyfreithwyr pwysig yw’r cotiau llwyd hynny. Dyna farn gyffredinol a oedd ar led yn y dref.

We have covered a range of issues from various bodies. The Mid Wales Partnership, Dyfed Powys Health Authority, the Brecon Beacons National Park, the North Wales Police Authority, the Wales Tourist Board and the Environment Agency have all spoken to us in excellent meetings. We did a great deal of preparatory work. One feature of the Committee’s meetings is the public presentations at the end, which are important and involve individuals and local organisations presenting their views to the Committee. Occasionally, that turned out to be slightly controversial. Had we had transcripts of the meetings instead of minutes, it would have been much more dangerous, because we have occasionally verged on being libellous.

Yr ydym wedi trafod amrediad o faterion gan amryfal gyrff. Mae Partneriaeth y Canolbarth, Awdurdod Iechyd Dyfed Powys, Parc Cenedlaethol Bannau Brycheiniog, Awdurdod Heddlu Gogledd Cymru, Bwrdd Croeso Cymru ac Asiantaeth yr Amgylchedd i gyd wedi’n hannerch mewn cyfarfodydd ardderchog. Gwnaethom lawer iawn o waith paratoi. Un o nodweddion cyfarfodydd y Pwyllgor yw’r cyflwyniadau cyhoeddus ar y diwedd, sydd yn bwysig ac yn rhoi lle i unigolion a sefydliadau lleol gyflwyno’u barn i’r Pwyllgor. Weithiau bu hynny ychydig yn ddadleuol. Pe baem ni wedi cael trawsgriptiau o’r cyfarfodydd yn lle cofnodion, buasai’n llawer mwy peryglus, oherwydd yr ydym ar adegau wedi ymylu ar fod yn enllibus.

Like other Committees, we have held two roadshows on Objective 1 and sustainable development. Those were particularly successful and point towards how Regional Committees can develop in future. That success should be noted.

Fel Pwyllgorau eraill, cynaliasom ddwy sioe deithiol ar Amcan 1 a datblygu cynaliadwy. Yr oedd y rhain yn arbennig o lwyddiannus ac yn dangos y ffordd y gall Pwyllgorau Rhanbarth ddatblygu yn y dyfodol. Dylid nodi’r llwyddiant hwnnw.

We dealt with several economic issues that are hugely important in rural Wales and we will return to those regularly. We considered the extra cost involved in delivering health care in rural areas and crime reduction. We also looked at farming, which is a major issue to which we will regularly return. During this year, we have dealt with one aspect of farming: the Welsh organic food sector, but there are several others to which we will also return. Transport in mid Wales is also a significant issue for the Committee.

Deliasom â sawl mater economaidd sydd yn aruthrol o bwysig yn y Gymru wledig a deuwn yn ôl at y rheini’n rheolaidd. Ystyriasom y gost ychwanegol o ddarparu gofal iechyd mewn ardaloedd gwledig a lleihau troseddu. Edrychwyd ar ffermio hefyd, sydd yn fater pwysig y byddwn yn dychwelyd ato’n rheolaidd. Yn ystod y flwyddyn hon, trafodasom un agwedd ar ffermio: sef y sector bwyd organig Cymreig, ond mae sawl agwedd arall y dychwelwn atynt hefyd. Mae trafnidiaeth yn y Canolbarth hefyd yn fater o bwys i’r Pwyllgor.

I have one concern about how we feedback to the Assembly. I have no doubt that the Assembly going out and connecting with the community has worked well by announcing that we are in different parts of Wales, are a representation of all parties, and that we want to liaise. It has worked very well in mid Wales. However, how we feedback to the Assembly is relevant here. I understand Christine Humphreys’s point; Gareth Jones made the same point. We all feel the same. It has arisen in our discussions and because we all agree, we may find a way of addressing that over the next 12 months. I hope that we do. That is how Committees must develop.

Mae gennyf un pryder ynghylch y modd y rhoddwn adborth i’r Cynulliad. Nid oes gennyf unrhyw amheuaeth fod mynd allan a chysylltu â’r cyhoedd wedi gweithio’n dda i’r Cynulliad drwy gyhoeddi ein bod mewn gwahanol rannau o Gymru, yn cynrychioli’r pleidiau i gyd, a bod arnom eisiau cydweithio. Mae wedi gweithio’n dda iawn yn y Canolbarth. Fodd bynnag, mae sut y rhoddwn adborth i’r Cynulliad yn berthnasol yma. Deallaf bwynt Christine Humphreys; gwnaeth Gareth Jones yr un pwynt. Yr ydym i gyd yn teimlo’r un fath. Mae wedi codi yn ein trafodaethau a chan ein bod i gyd yn cytuno, efallai y canfyddwn ffordd o roi sylw i hynny yn y 12 mis nesaf. Gobeithiaf y gwnawn. Dyna sut y mae’n rhaid i Bwyllgorau ddatblygu.

Before you threaten me with the time, Deputy Presiding Officer, I will end my speech. I thank Assembly Members for their support and the administrative staff who have been magnificent. It has been a pleasure to serve as Chair of the Mid Wales Regional Committee in its first year.

Cyn ichi fy mygwth gyda’r amser, Ddirprwy Lywydd, fe ddiweddaf fy araith. Diolch i Aelodau’r Cynulliad am eu cefnogaeth ac i’r staff gweinyddol a fu’n wych. Bu’n bleser gwasanaethu fel Cadeirydd Pwyllgor Rhanbarth y Canolbarth yn ei flwyddyn gyntaf.

Jane Davidson The Deputy Presiding Officer spoken in English p. 38

Jane Davidson Y Dirprwy Lywydd siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 38

That was spot on five minutes.

Yr oedd hynny’n bum munud union.

Peter Black spoken in English p. 38

Peter Black siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 38

Like the previous Committee Chairs who spoke, I thank the Assembly and my Committee, the South West Wales Regional Committee, for the opportunity to chair it and for their support throughout the year. We sought to act as the Assembly’s eyes and ears in south-west Wales and we were quite successful in doing so.

Fel y Cadeiryddion Pwyllgorau a siaradodd o’m blaen, diolchaf innau i’r Cynulliad a’m Pwyllgor, sef Pwyllgor Rhanbarth y De-orllewin, am y cyfle i’w gadeirio ac am eu cefnogaeth drwy gydol y flwyddyn. Ceisiasom weithredu fel llygaid a chlustiau’r Cynulliad yn y de-orllewin, a buom yn eithaf llwyddiannus yn hynny o beth.

I want to go through some of the issues and discuss how we conducted Committee meetings in south-west Wales. We are committed to partnership, as is the Assembly. We sought to deal with that practically by inviting the South West Wales Economic Forum to every meeting and giving it a role, involving it in the meetings and allowing it to make presentations. That was a valuable role and acted as a bridge between the Assembly and key players in the local economy.

Hoffwn fynd drwy rai o’r materion a thrafod sut y cynaliasom gyfarfodydd y Pwyllgor yn y de-orllewin. Yr ydym wedi ymrwymo i bartneriaeth, fel y Cynulliad ei hun. Ceisiasom ddelio â hynny’n ymarferol drwy wahodd Fforwm Economaidd De-orllewin Cymru i bob cyfarfod a rhoi rôl iddo, ei gynnwys yn y cyfarfodydd a chaniatáu iddo wneud cyflwyniadau. Yr oedd hynny’n rôl werthfawr a weithredodd fel pont rhwng y Cynulliad a chwaraewyr allweddol yn yr economi lleol.

We also sought to maximise public involvement in our meetings, by beginning them with an open microphone session. We tried to give answers in the meetings, where possible, to give a greater sense of public involvement and arranged for written replies if required. We encouraged members of the public to make one-minute contributions before Assembly Members after each group of presentations, otherwise there would not have been time for them. This worked well and ensured greater public interest in proceedings. We also tried to involve local schools, four of which were represented at the last meeting in Swansea.

Ceisiasom hefyd gael y cyfranogiad mwyaf posibl o du’r cyhoedd yn ein cyfarfodydd, drwy eu cychwyn gyda sesiwn meicroffon agored. Ceisiasom roi atebion yn y cyfarfodydd, lle’r oedd hynny’n bosibl, i roi mwy o deimlad o gyfranogiad i’r cyhoedd, a threfnwyd atebion ysgrifenedig yn ôl y galw. Anogasom aelodau’r cyhoedd i wneud cyfraniadau un-munud ger bron Aelodau’r Cynulliad ar ôl pob grŵp o gyfraniadau, neu fel arall ni fuasai amser ar eu cyfer. Gweithiodd hyn yn dda gan sicrhau mwy o ddiddordeb ymysg y cyhoedd yn ein gweithgareddau. Ceisiasom hefyd gynnwys ysgolion lleol, ac yr oedd cynrychiolaeth o bedair ohonynt yn y cyfarfod diwethaf yn Abertawe.

Our early meetings were held in council chambers, but we have tried to get into as many communities as possible and have varied the venues accordingly. We have used community halls and social clubs. The informal structures of the venues has helped to encourage participation. We have aimed to ensure full independent access for all, including wheelchair users and have sought to consult with local disabled access groups on the suitability of venues. We have not always got it right, but we are getting there.

Cynhaliwyd ein cyfarfodydd cynnar mewn siambrau cyngor, ond yr ydym wedi ceisio mynd i gymaint o gymunedau ag sydd yn bosibl ac wedi amrywio’r mannau cyfarfod yn unol â hynny. Defnyddiwyd neuaddau cymuned a chlybiau cymdeithasol. Mae adeiledd anffurfiol y canolfannau wedi helpu i annog pobl i gymryd rhan. Yr ydym wedi anelu at sicrhau mynediad annibynnol llawn i bawb, gan gynnwys defnyddwyr cadeiriau olwyn, ac wedi ceisio ymgynghori â grwpiau mynediad i’r anabl yn lleol ynghylch addasrwydd canolfannau. Nid ydym wedi taro deuddeg bob tro, ond yr ydym ar y trywydd iawn.

Like other Committees, we have discussed a wide range of issues, including two discussions on Objective 1, with another scheduled for the next meeting on 14 July. We have looked at infrastructure, tourism, education and training, sustainable development, health, the role of the voluntary sector and public transport. The best meetings were those that focused in depth on subjects such as Objective 1, sustainable development and transport. The meeting on the second medical school was also successful. In those instances, there has been a direct link between what the Committee has to say and what it hears, and with the Assembly Subject Committee and Secretary. It has been part of a wider consultation and discussion within the Assembly and, therefore, becomes more relevant and immediate.

Fel Pwyllgorau eraill, yr ydym wedi trafod amrediad eang o bynciau, gan gynnwys dwy drafodaeth ar Amcan 1, gydag un arall i ddigwydd yn y cyfarfod nesaf ar 14 Gorffennaf. Yr ydym wedi edrych ar isadeiledd, twristiaeth, addysg a hyfforddiant, datblygu cynaliadwy, iechyd, rôl y sector gwirfoddol a thrafnidiaeth gyhoeddus. Y cyfarfodydd gorau fu’r rheini a ganolbwyntiodd mewn dyfnder ar bynciau fel Amcan 1, datblygiad cynaliadwy a thrafnidiaeth. Yr oedd y cyfarfod ynghylch yr ail ysgol feddygol yn llwyddiannus hefyd. Yn yr achosion hynny, bu cyswllt uniongyrchol rhwng yr hyn sydd gan y Cynulliad i’w ddweud a’r hyn a glyw, a chyda’r Pwyllgor Pwnc a’r Ysgrifennydd yn y Cynulliad. Bu’n rhan o ymgynghori a thrafod ehangach o fewn y Cynulliad ac, felly, mae’n fwy perthnasol ac uniongyrchol.

It is for those reasons that I believe, as Christine Humphreys states in her amendment, that Regional Committees must be strengthened. I would support Regional Committees being able to put reports onto the agendas of Subject Committees, with recommendations if necessary. I also believe that the relevance of Regional Committees could be improved if they fulfilled a scrutiny role when there are regional dimensions to policies. They could take evidence, for example, on how well regional planning fora are working and make recommendations to the Environment, Planning and Transport Committee. I am sure that there are other such examples.

Dyna’r rhesymau pam y credaf, fel y dywed Christine Humphreys yn ei gwelliant, fod yn rhaid cryfhau’r Pwyllgorau Rhanbarth. Byddwn i’n cefnogi bod Pwyllgorau Rhanbarth yn gallu rhoi adroddiadau ar agendâu Pwyllgorau Pwnc, gydag argymhellion os oes angen. Credaf hefyd y gellid gwella perthnasedd Pwyllgorau Rhanbarth pe baent yn cyflawni rôl archwilio pan fo agweddau rhanbarthol i bolisïau. Gallent gymryd tystiolaeth, er enghraifft, ar ba mor dda y mae fforymau cynllunio rhanbarthol yn gweithio a gwneud argymhellion i Bwyllgor yr Amgylchedd, Cynllunio a Thrafnidiaeth. Yr wyf yn siŵr bod enghreifftiau eraill tebyg.

This would involve more than one meeting a term, more clerical support and a greater commitment to Regional Committees by the Assembly. The choice is a stark one. We either allow Regional Committees to evolve in this way, give them more clout and make them more relevant, or we consign them to be no more than talking shops, paying lip service to consultations, letting their reports and conclusions drift into limbo. That is an important aspect.

Byddai hyn yn gofyn am fwy nag un cyfarfod y tymor, mwy o gymorth clerigol a mwy o ymrwymiad i’r Pwyllgorau Rhanbarth gan y Cynulliad. Mae’r dewis yn un moel. Un ai caniatawn i Bwyllgorau Rhanbarth esblygu fel hyn, gan roi mwy o rym iddynt a’u gwneud yn fwy perthnasol, neu fe’u condemniwn i fod yn ddim mwy na siopau siarad, yn rhoi sylw arwynebol i ymgyngoriadau, yn gadael i’w hadroddiadau a’u casgliadau suddo i bwll diwaelod. Mae hynny’n agwedd bwysig.

Val Feld spoken in English p. 40

Val Feld siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 40

I commend you, Peter, on the way in which you have chaired and organised the South West Wales Regional Committee. We would all say that you have been able to develop openness and accessibility in a way with which we are delighted. I have been a strong supporter of regional committees as the eyes and ears of the Assembly. However, we have a dilemma between either taking the Regional Committees out frequently or taking Subject Committees out. Do you think that there is a real question as to whether taking the Subject Committees around Wales rather than holding more meetings of the Regional Committees would be more effective in ensuring participation?

Llongyfarchiadau, Peter, ar y modd yr ydych wedi cadeirio a threfnu Pwyllgor Rhanbarth y De-orllewin. Byddai pawb ohonom yn dweud eich bod wedi gallu datblygu trefn agored a hygyrch mewn modd sydd wrth ein bodd. Bûm yn gefnogwr cryf i bwyllgorau rhanbarth fel llygaid a chlustiau’r Cynulliad. Fodd bynnag, mae gennym gyfyng gyngor rhwng naill ai fynd â’r Pwyllgorau Rhanbarth allan yn aml neu fynd â Phwyllgorau Pwnc allan. A ydych yn cytuno y byddai mynd â’r Pwyllgorau Pwnc o gwmpas Cymru yn hytrach na chynnal mwy o gyfarfodydd o’r Pwyllgorau Rhanbarth yn fwy effeithiol o ran sicrhau cyfranogiad?

Peter Black spoken in English p. 41

Peter Black siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 41

I cannot answer that. I am giving a personal view. We were asked to include ideas in this debate about the way forward. I thought that the joint meeting on Objective 1 with your Committee, Val, was constructive and helpful. I will support Subject and Regional Committees holding joint meetings if they feel that there is a relevant agenda on which that could be done. That is something that should be examined.

Ni allaf ateb hynny. Yr wyf yn rhoi barn bersonol. Gofynnwyd inni gynnwys syniadau yn y ddadl hon ynglŷn â’r ffordd ymlaen. Yr oeddwn yn meddwl fod y cyd-gyfarfod ar Amcan 1 gyda’ch Pwyllgor chi, Val, yn adeiladol a buddiol. Cefnogaf gynnal cyd-gyfarfodydd rhwng Pwyllgorau Pwnc a Rhanbarth os teimlant fod agenda berthnasol y gellid gwneud hynny arni. Dyna rywbeth y dylid edrych arno.

To conclude, from the point of view of the South West Wales Regional Committee, and the South East Wales Regional Committee, of which I am a member, I think that we have made a good start. We must build on that by giving the Regional Committees more strength. I thank the Assembly for the opportunity to be the first Chair of this Committee. I wish every success to my successor, who will be elected at the next meeting.

I gloi, o safbwynt Pwyllgor Rhanbarth y De-orllewin, a Phwyllgor Rhanbarth y De-ddwyrain, yr wyf fi’n aelod ohono, credaf ein bod wedi gwneud dechrau da. Rhaid inni adeiladu ar hynny drwy roi mwy o nerth i’r Pwyllgorau Rhanbarth. Diolchaf i’r Cynulliad am y cyfle i fod yn Gadeirydd cyntaf y Pwyllgor hwn. Dymunaf bob llwyddiant i fy olynydd, a etholir yn y cyfarfod nesaf.

Carwyn Jones siaradwyd yn Gymraeg ac yn Saesneg t. 41

Carwyn Jones spoken in Welsh and English p. 41

Dechreuaf drwy ddiolch i aelodau’r Pwyllgor a’m hetholodd i’r Gadair. Diolch hefyd i bawb a ddadleuodd yng nghyfarfodydd y Pwyllgor mewn modd cydweithredol ac am ysbryd y ddadl.

in Welsh I start by thanking the Committee members who elected me to the Chair. I also thank everyone who has debated during the Committee’s meetings in a co-operative manner and for the spirit of the debate.

Mae gan y Pwyllgorau Rhanbarth rôl bwysig i’w chwarae yng ngwaith y Cynulliad Cenedlaethol. Eu rôl swyddogol yw cynghori’r Cynulliad ar faterion sydd yn effeithio ar ranbarthau ac ar effaith polisïau’r Cynulliad ar yr ardaloedd hynny. Mae’n bwysig ystyried y modd y mae’r Pwyllgorau yn cyflawni eu rôl. Y peth pwysicaf a wnaeth y Pwyllgorau Rhanbarth yw mynd â’r Cynulliad at y bobl a buont yn gyfrwng i dynnu’r Cynulliad yn agosach at bobl Cymru. Ni chredaf fod unrhyw bwyllgor yn San Steffan nac Ewrop wedi teithio gymaint â’n Pwyllgorau Rhanbarth.

in Welsh The Regional Committees have an important role to play in the National Assembly’s work. Their official role is to advise the Assembly on matters that affect the regions and on the effects of Assembly policies in those areas. It is important to consider how the Committees fulfil their role. The most important thing that the Regional Committees have done is to take the Assembly to the people and to act as a means to draw the Assembly closer to the people of Wales. I do not think that any committee in Westminster or Europe has travelled as extensively as our Regional Committees.

Mae Pwyllgor Rhanbarth y De-ddwyrain yn cynnwys ardal sydd yn ymestyn o Gas-gwent yn y dwyrain i’r Pîl a Mynyddcynffig ym Mhen-y-bont ar Ogwr. Mae’n mynd mor bell i’r gogledd â blaenau’r Cymoedd ac i lawr i’r arfordir. Mae hwn yn rhanbarth mawr sydd yn cynnwys hanner economi Cymru. Y tu mewn i’r rhanbarth, ceir llawer o wahaniaethau rhwng ardaloedd cyfoethog a thlawd, yn enwedig yng nghymunedau’r Cymoedd.

in Welsh The South East Wales Regional Committee covers an area that reaches from Chepstow in the east to Pyle and Kenfig Hill in Bridgend. It goes as far to the north as the heads of the Valleys and down to the coast. This is a large region, which includes half of Wales’s economy. Within the region, there are many differences between rich and poor areas, particularly in the Valley communities.

Yn ystod ein dadl ar rôl y Pwyllgorau Rhanbarth, flwyddyn yn ôl ymron, trafodwyd a ddylai Pwyllgor Rhanbarth y De-ddwyrain rannu’n ddau, neu efallai dri, is-bwyllgor. Yr wyf yn falch ein bod wedi cael un Pwyllgor. Mae rhanbarth de-ddwyrain Cymru yn endid naturiol. Cafwyd llawer o sôn ar y dechrau y byddai’r Pwyllgor yn rhy fawr, gan ei fod yn cynnwys hanner yr Aelodau cenedlaethol. Fodd bynnag, nid yw hynny wedi achosi problemau.

in Welsh During our debate on the role of the Regional Committees, nearly a year ago, we discussed whether the South East Wales Regional Committee should divide into two, or maybe three, sub-committees. I am pleased that we had one Committee. The south-east Wales region is a natural entity. There was much talk at the beginning that the Committee would be too big, as it includes half of the national Members. However, that has not caused problems.

One of the things that we adopted during the first year of the Committee was a themed approach to all Committee meetings. That enables Members to consider a particular issue in depth, rather than consider several different issues insufficiently. So far, that approach has enabled us to cover a range of issues, such as the economy, transport, health, education and training. It has worked well and has given the Committee the opportunity to tackle some of the real issues affecting the region. We have considered how to develop a stronger service sector, how to address the problem of commuting into Cardiff, the links between deprivation and ill-health and the problem of poor adult literacy and numeracy. We have also held two roadshow events, jointly with Subject Committees, on sustainable development and Objective 1.

yn Saesneg Un o’r pethau cyntaf inni ei fabwysiadu yn ystod blwyddyn gyntaf y Pwyllgor oedd cael thema i bob cyfarfod Pwyllgor. Mae hynny’n galluogi Aelodau i ystyried mater arbennig mewn dyfnder, yn hytrach nag ystyried sawl mater gwahanol yn annigonol. Hyd yma, mae’r system honno wedi’n galluogi i drafod amrediad o faterion, megis yr economi, trafnidiaeth, iechyd, addysg a hyfforddiant. Mae wedi gweithio’n dda ac wedi rhoi cyfle i’r Pwyllgor fynd i’r afael â rhai o’r gwir faterion sydd yn effeithio ar y rhanbarth. Yr ydym wedi ystyried sut i ddatblygu sector gwasanaeth cryfach, beth i’w wneud ynghylch problem cymudo i Gaerdydd, y cysylltiadau rhwng difreintiad a iechyd gwael a phroblem llythrennedd a rhifedd gwael mewn oedolion. Yr ydym wedi cynnal dwy sioe deithiol hefyd, ar y cyd â Phwyllgorau Pwnc, ar ddatblygiad cynaliadwy ac Amcan 1.

It is vital that the Committee travels throughout the region as much as possible so that people see the Assembly at work. We have been to seven of the 10 unitary authority council chambers in Wales. That has been important to show people that we are willing to travel and it has given us the tremendous benefit of acquiring a marvellous knowledge of the council chambers in Wales and, more importantly, how to get to them. I am sure that Jenny, when she takes over as Chair, will want to continue the peripatetic nature of our meetings. We have also established links with key partners in the region—the economic forum and the transportation forum. Those bodies have found it invaluable to come to Committee meetings and give presentations.

yn Saesneg Mae’n holl bwysig fod y Pwyllgor yn teithio drwy’r rhanbarth gymaint ag y gall er mwyn i bobl weld y Cynulliad wrth ei waith. Buom i saith o’r 10 siambr cyngor awdurdod unedol yng Nghymru. Bu hynny’n bwysig er mwyn dangos i bobl ein bod yn fodlon teithio ac mae wedi rhoi’r budd mawr inni o ddod i adnabod siambrau cynghorau yng Nghymru yn dda iawn ac, yn bwysicach, gwybod sut i’w cyrraedd. Pan gymer Jenny y Gadair yr wyf yn siŵr y bydd hi’n awyddus i barhau natur deithiol ein cyfarfodydd. Yr ydym hefyd wedi sefydlu cysylltiadau gyda phartneriaid allweddol yn y rhanbarth—y fforwm economaidd a’r fforwm trafnidiaeth. Bu’n hynod werthfawr i’r cyrff hynny gael dod i gyfarfodydd Pwyllgor a rhoi cyflwyniadau.

Several of my co-Chairs referred to the open mike sessions at meetings, where the public can put questions to the Committee. That is a unique feature of the Regional Committees. In the South East Wales Regional Committee, if people ask a question that cannot be answered at the time, we ask them to write it down and they receive a written answer from the appropriate Assembly Secretary. That shows how interested people are and how important it is to tell them that they can engage with the Regional Committee and get answers to questions that they ask at meetings.

yn Saesneg Cyfeiriodd nifer o’m cyd-Gadeiryddion at y sesiynau meic agored mewn cyfarfodydd, lle gall y cyhoedd holi’r Pwyllgor. Mae hynny’n nodwedd unigryw i’r Pwyllgorau Rhanbarth. Ym Mhwyllgor Rhanbarth y De-ddwyrain, os gofynnir cwestiwn na ellir ei ateb ar y pryd, gofynnwn i’r holwr ei ysgrifennu ar bapur a chânt ateb ysgrifenedig gan yr Ysgrifennydd Cynulliad priodol. Dyna ddangos gymaint o ddiddordeb sydd gan bobl ac mor bwysig ydyw dweud wrthynt y gallant gyfathrebu â’r Pwyllgor Rhanbarth a chael atebion i gwestiynau a ofynnant mewn cyfarfodydd.

Attendance at the meetings has fluctuated over the year. We are lucky in that our quorum has always been exceeded. Public attendance has been good. It has risen from single figures, and topped 100 on one occasion in Newport. I hope that a more stable pattern will emerge as publicity and public awareness of Committee meetings increase. Some of the fluctuations were a result of competing attractions. For example, when we were in Merthyr Tydfil, we competed with the first game of the Rugby World Cup. We were bound to lose that competition. On Members, there have been good attenders at Committee meetings but some have not been as diligent in their attendance as others. I will not name them—they know who they are, and they are not in the Chamber at the moment.

yn Saesneg Cafwyd niferoedd amrywiol i fynychu’r cyfarfodydd dros y flwyddyn. Yr ydym yn ffodus ein bod wedi bod dros ein cworwm bob tro. Bu presenoldeb y cyhoedd yn dda. Cododd o ffigurau sengl, a bu dros 100 un waith yng Nghasnewydd. Gobeithiaf y gwelwn batrwm mwy sefydlog yn datblygu wrth i gyhoeddusrwydd ac ymwybyddiaeth y cyhoedd o gyfarfodydd Pwyllgor gynyddu. Achoswyd rhai o’r amrywiadau gan atyniadau cystadleuol. Er enghraifft, pan oeddem ym Merthyr Tudful, yr oeddem yn cystadlu â gêm agoriadol Cwpan Rygbi’r Byd. Yr oeddem yn rhwym o golli’r ornest honno. O ran Aelodau, bu presenoldeb rhai mewn cyfarfodydd Pwyllgor yn ardderchog ond ni fu rhai mor deyrngar eu presenoldeb ag eraill. Ni wnaf eu henwi—gwyddant pwy ydynt, ac nid ydynt yn y Siambr ar hyn o bryd.

In summary, the South East Wales Regional Committee provides a crucial link between the National Assembly and local communities within that region. Most importantly, we have developed the necessary links with key partners in the region, and steps have been taken to encourage an increased level of public participation. I take on board what other Chairs have said on feedback and reporting. So far, we have laid the ground on establishing the links. We now need to work out what we do from now on and how we feed back to the Assembly. There may be some scope in working with some of the regional organisations such as the transport forum, the planning forum and so on—

yn Saesneg I gloi, mae Pwyllgor Rhanbarth y De-ddwyrain yn darparu dolen gyswllt allweddol rhwng y Cynulliad Cenedlaethol a chymunedau lleol o fewn y rhanbarth hwnnw. Yn bwysicaf oll, yr ydym wedi datblygu’r cysylltiadau angenrheidiol â phartneriaid allweddol yn y rhanbarth, a chymerwyd camau i annog mwy o gyfranogiad gan y cyhoedd. Yr wyf yn derbyn yr hyn a ddywedodd Cadeiryddion eraill am adborth ac adroddiadau. Hyd yma, yr ydym wedi braenaru’r tir wrth sefydlu’r cysylltiadau. Yn awr mae angen inni feddwl beth yr ydym am ei wneud o hyn allan a sut y rhoddwn adborth i’r Cynulliad. Fe all fod lle i weithio gyda rhai o’r sefydliadau rhanbarthol fel y fforwm trafnidiaeth, y fforwm cynllunio ac yn y blaen—

Janice Gregory spoken in English p. 44

Janice Gregory siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 44

Do you agree that the South East Wales Regional Committee has noted several times that the publicity for that Committee should have been better. People in south-east Wales would then know that the Committee was meeting in their area. Had they known that, they would have attended.

A gytunwch fod Pwyllgor Rhanbarth y De-ddwyrain wedi nodi sawl gwaith y dylasai’r cyhoeddusrwydd i’r Pwyllgor hwnnw fod yn well. Wedyn byddai pobl yn ne-ddwyrain Cymru’n gwybod fod y Pwyllgor yn cwrdd yn eu hardal. Pe baent wedi gwybod hynny, byddent wedi dod.

Carwyn Jones spoken in English p. 44

Carwyn Jones siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 44

That is correct. One of the things that we have done is get publicity out as early as possible. Unfortunately, this has not always been covered in the local or national press. The people in the press office on the fourth floor who are listening to this should take note.

Mae hynny’n gywir. Un o’r pethau a wnaethom oedd anfon cyhoeddusrwydd allan mor gynnar â phosibl. Yn anffodus, ni roddwyd sylw iddo bob amser yn y wasg leol na chenedlaethol. Dylai’r bobl yn swyddfa’r wasg ar y pedwerydd llawr sydd yn gwrando ar hyn gymryd sylw.

We need to consider ways in which to work with these partners and develop a reporting mechanism to produce reports and conduct inquiries to feed back to the Assembly. The Regional Committees should follow that direction in the future. A formal way of reporting back on a regional basis is needed.

Mae angen inni ystyried ffyrdd i weithio gyda’r partneriaid hyn a datblygu mecanwaith adrodd i lunio adroddiadau a chreu ymholiadau i’w bwydo’n ôl i’r Cynulliad. Dylai’r Pwyllgorau Rhanbarth fynd i’r cyfeiriad hwnnw yn y dyfodol. Mae angen ffordd ffurfiol o adrodd yn ôl ar sail ranbarthol.

It has been a privilege to chair the Committee in its first year. I am sure that Jenny—when she takes over—will build on the achievements that we have had to date and will continue to develop our role. We identified a number of weaknesses in the first year that will need to be rectified in the second year. I thank the officials who provided tremendous support during the past year and made my job easy. I remember the meeting in Newport where there were around 30 presentations to go through at 30 minutes each. Martin Stephenson brought cards with numbers on them for people to be counted down according to the time they had left to finish their presentations. I thank the members of the Committee for their support and co-operation throughout the year. It has been an easy Committee to chair. We have not argued too much. I wish Jenny as my successor all the best. I hope that the Committee members are as kind to you as they were to me.

Bu’n fraint cadeirio’r Pwyllgor yn ei flwyddyn gyntaf. Yr wyf yn siŵr y bydd Jenny—pan gymer yr awenau—yn adeiladu ar yr hyn a gyflawnwyd gennym hyd yn hyn ac yn parhau i ddatblygu’n rôl. Nodwyd nifer o wendidau yn ein blwyddyn gyntaf y bydd angen eu cywiro yn yr ail flwyddyn. Diolch i’r swyddogion a roddodd gefnogaeth wych yn ystod y flwyddyn ddiwethaf ac a wnaeth fy ngwaith i’n hawdd. Cofiaf y cyfarfod yng Nghasnewydd pan oedd angen mynd drwy ryw 30 o gyflwyniadau 30 munud yr un. Daeth Martin Stephenson â chardiau gyda rhifau arnynt i bobl gael eu cyfrif i lawr yn ôl yr amser a oedd ar ôl ganddynt i orffen eu cyflwyniadau. Diolchaf i aelodau’r Pwyllgor am eu cefnogaeth a’u cydweithrediad drwy’r flwyddyn. Bu’n Bwyllgor hawdd ei gadeirio. Nid ydym wedi ffraeo gormod. Dymunaf bob hwyl i Jenny fel olynydd imi. Gobeithiaf y bydd aelodau’r Pwyllgor mor garedig wrthych ag y buont wrthyf fi.

Jane Davidson The Deputy Presiding Officer spoken in English p. 45

Jane Davidson Y Dirprwy Lywydd siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 45

We have a little over 10 minutes left for this debate and we have five speakers. I would be grateful if you would be brief in your comments.

Mae gennym ychydig dros 10 munud ar ôl ar gyfer y ddadl hon ac mae gennym bum siaradwr. Byddwn yn ddiolchgar pe baech yn gryno gyda’ch sylwadau.

Elin Jones siaradwyd yn Gymraeg t. 45

Elin Jones spoken in Welsh p. 45

Mae tri phwynt byr gennyf i’w cyfrannu i’r drafodaeth hon. Mae dau bwynt yn deillio o’r ffaith fy mod ar fin cael fy enwebu a gobeithio fy ethol fel Cadeirydd Pwyllgor Rhanbarth y Canolbarth ac mae’r trydydd pwynt yn deillio o’r ffaith fy mod yn byw yng nghanolbarth Cymru.

I have three short points to contribute to this debate. Two points arise from the fact that I am about to be nominated and hopefully elected as Chair of the Mid Wales Regional Committee and the third point arises from the fact that I live in mid Wales.

Yn gyntaf, er mwyn sicrhau bod Pwyllgorau Rhanbarth yn gynhyrchiol, mae’n holl bwysig bod agenda unrhyw gyfarfod yn cael ei lenwi ag eitemau y mae rheswm dros eu cynnwys. Nid yw’n dderbyniol meddwl am bwnc ac yna meddwl am gyrff i’w gwahodd i’r Pwyllgor i drafod y pwnc. Mae’n bwysig fod pwrpas i unrhyw drafodaeth. Un defnydd buddiol o amser y Pwyllgorau fyddai iddynt feithrin a miniogi’u rôl mewn archwilio gwaith y cyrff cenedlaethol mewn gwahanol ranbarthau. Mae angen trafod gwaith a buddsoddiad cyrff megis Cyngor Celfyddydau Cymru a’r WDA mewn gwahanol ranbarthau. Byddai’n briodol bwydo unrhyw gasgliadau o’r drafodaeth hon i’r Ysgrifennydd Cynulliad perthnasol.

First, to ensure that Regional Committees are productive, it is vital that the agenda of any meeting is filled with items that are there for a reason. It is not acceptable to think of a topic and then think of bodies to invite to the Committee to discuss the topic. It is important that any debate has a purpose. One beneficial use of the Committees’ time would be for them to foster and hone their role in examining the work of the national bodies in different regions. The work and investment of bodies such as the Arts Council of Wales and the WDA in different regions needs to be discussed. It would be appropriate to feed any conclusions from this discussion back to the relevant Assembly Secretary.

Yn ail, mae angen clymu gwaith y Pwyllgorau Rhanbarth i mewn i waith y Pwyllgorau Pwnc a’r Cynulliad Cenedlaethol. Un o gyfarfodydd mwyaf buddiol Pwyllgor Rhanbarth y Canolbarth oedd trafod yr ymgynghoriad ar ddatblygu cynaliadwy. Rhaid edrych am gyfleon i wneud hyn yn gynyddol. Fodd bynnag, pan fo Pwyllgor Pwnc yn cynnal arolwg penodol o unrhyw faes polisi, nid yw’n briodol i’r Pwyllgor Rhanbarth gymryd tystiolaeth yn y rhanbarth ar y maes polisi hwnnw. Yn hytrach, dylid annog y Pwyllgorau Pwnc i gyfarfod yn y rhanbarthau, fel y gwnaeth y Pwyllgor Addysg a Hyfforddiant Ôl-16 pan drafodwyd yr adolygiad diwylliant. Yr oedd hynny yn fuddiol a rhoddodd flas i’r Pwyllgor o weithgaredd diwylliannol ar hyd a lled Cymru.

Secondly, we need to tie in the work of the Regional Committees with the work of the Subject Committees and the National Assembly. One of the Mid Wales Regional Committee’s most beneficial meetings was discussing the consultation on sustainable development. We must look for opportunities to do this on an increasing basis. However, when a Subject Committee undertakes a specific review of any policy area, it is not appropriate for the Regional Committee to take evidence in the region on that policy area. Rather, the Subject Committees should be encouraged to meet in the regions, as the Post-16 Education and Training Committee did when the culture review was discussed. That was beneficial and gave the Committee a taste of cultural activity throughout Wales.

Yn olaf, hoffwn ymateb i’r drafodaeth ddiweddar ar y Gogledd, a’r sylwadau a honiadau bod y Cynulliad yn anwybyddu’r ardal hon. Teimlaf yn gyfforddus yn gwneud sylwadau ar y pwnc gan fy mod yn byw yn Aberystwyth, sydd byth yn siŵr ai perthyn i’r De neu’r Gogledd y mae—os yw’r fath greadigaethau â de a gogledd yn bodoli yn lle cyntaf. Yr wyf hefyd yn gyfarwydd â dadleuon ‘de yn erbyn gogledd’ yn fy etholaeth. Mae cwyno parhaus gan drigolion Aberteifi yn y De bod Aberystwyth yn y Gogledd yn cael y sylw a’r datblygu i gyd.

Finally, I would like to respond to the recent discussion on the North and the comments and allegations that the Assembly ignores this area. I feel comfortable in commenting on the subject because I live in Aberystwyth, which is never sure whether it belongs to the South or to the North—if such creations as south and north exist in the first place. I am also familiar with ‘south versus north’ arguments in my constituency. There is constant complaining from Cardigan’s residents in the South that Aberystwyth in the North gets all the attention and development.

Rôl y Cynulliad Cenedlaethol yw trin pob ardal yng Nghymru yn deg a’n nod yw targedu adnoddau i’n hardaloedd mwyaf anghenus. Mae’r gwaith hwnnw wedi dechrau o fewn rhaglen Amcan 1 yn y gorllewin a’r Cymoedd. Mae hyd yn oed y ffin honno yn annigonol, gan fod cymunedau difreintiedig i’w cael y tu allan i ardal Amcan 1 yn y dwyrain.

The National Assembly’s role is to treat each region in Wales fairly and our aim is to target resources at our areas of greatest need. That work has already begun within the Objective 1 programme in the west and the Valleys. Even that divide is inadequate, since there are disadvantaged communities outside the Objective 1 area in the east.

Mae’n rhaid inni sicrhau nad yw’r Pwyllgorau Rhanbarth yn ddyfeisiadau i rannu Cymru a gosod un rhanbarth yn erbyn un arall, neu un rhanbarth yn erbyn y tri arall. Gelynion datganoli a’r Cynulliad Cenedlaethol sydd eisiau hyrwyddo rhaniadau. Clywais un gwrthwynebydd llym i ddatganoli i Gymru yn dadlau unwaith nad Cynulliad Cenedlaethol oedd ei angen arnom, ond fforwm drafod i’r Gogledd ac i’r De. Wedyn byddai Cymru wedi rhannu am byth. Dylai pob cefnogwr y Cynulliad Cenedlaethol gadw mewn cof geiriau’r bardd Maya Angelou:

We must ensure that the Regional Committees are not devices by which to split Wales and set one region against another, or one region against the three others. It is the enemies of devolution and the National Assembly who want to promote such divides. I heard one vehement opposer of devolution to Wales argue once that we did not need a National Assembly, but a discussion forum for the North and for the South. Then Wales would be divided forever. Each supporter of the National Assembly should bear in mind the words of the poet Maya Angelou:

‘We are more alike than we are unalike.’

Edwina Hart The Finance Secretary spoken in English p. 46

Edwina Hart Yr Ysgrifennydd Cyllid siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 46

I concur with some of Elin’s comments. Regional Committees are integral to the whole of the Assembly’s workings. Regional Committee meetings are also some of the most enjoyable events that I attend. There are useful debates, genuine discussion and contributions from the floor. People can see the Assembly working on their doorstep. Schoolchildren and various interest groups attend. It is nice when members of the public can ask questions and get answers from bodies that are giving presentations to us, which, if they wrote to those bodies, they would otherwise never dream of getting. That shows democracy in action. It is our window on Wales, and Wales’s window on the Assembly.

Yr wyf yn cyd-fynd â rhai o sylwadau Elin. Mae Pwyllgorau Rhanbarth yn integrol i holl waith y Cynulliad. Cyfarfodydd Pwyllgorau Rhanbarth hefyd yw rhai o’r achlysuron yr wyf yn mwynhau eu mynychu fwyaf. Ceir dadleuon buddiol, gwir drafodaeth a chyfraniadau o’r llawr. Gall pobl weld y Cynulliad yn gweithio ar eu stepen drws. Mae plant ysgol a gwahanol grwpiau diddordeb yn eu mynychu. Mae’n braf pan gaiff aelodau’r cyhoedd ofyn cwestiynau a chael atebion gan gyrff sydd yn rhoi cyflwyniadau inni, atebion na fyddent yn breuddwydio eu cael fel arall petaent yn ysgrifennu at y cyrff hynny. Mae hynny’n dangos democratiaeth ar waith. Dyna’n ffenestr ar Gymru, a ffenestr Cymru ar y Cynulliad.

However, it is important that we develop the role of the Regional Committees. They have a useful role and purpose. Peter alluded to the planning forum issues. They are important, as are arts and culture issues. The Regional Committees have a valuable role to play by perhaps collecting information from groups and feeding it to the various central Committees. We have enormous opportunity, when consulting on the development of various policies, to use Regional Committees as a testing ground almost for consultation, and then to feed that information into the main Committee.

Fodd bynnag, mae’n bwysig ein bod yn datblygu rôl y Pwyllgorau Rhanbarth. Mae ganddynt rôl a phwrpas defnyddiol. Soniodd Peter am faterion y fforwm cynllunio. Maent yn bwysig, fel y mae materion celfyddydau a diwylliant. Mae gan y Pwyllgorau Rhanbarth rôl bwysig i’w chwarae efallai wrth gasglu gwybodaeth gan grwpiau a’i bwydo i’r gwahanol Bwyllgorau canolog. Mae gennym gyfle enfawr, wrth ymgynghori ar ddatblygiad gwahanol bolisïau, i ddefnyddio Pwyllgorau Rhanbarth fel maes profi o fath ar gyfer ymgynghori, cyn bwydo’r wybodaeth i’r prif Bwyllgor.

It is also important that Subject Committees travel. There is no dilemma about that, Val. The only dilemma is how much we are prepared to pay for democracy. It is important that Regional Committees and Subject Committees can travel to show that we are interested in all parts of Wales. I have been particularly pleased about the attendance of school students at our Regional Committee meetings. That has been helpful. There is more that we could do to engage with young people more systematically. There is the success of the Young Voice/Llais Ifanc project. We can perhaps build on that, using Regional Committees to establish even better links with the education sectors.

Mae’n bwysig hefyd i Bwyllgorau Pwnc deithio. Nid oes cyfyng gyngor ynghylch hynny, Val. Yr unig gyfyng gyngor yw faint yr ydym yn barod i’w dalu am ddemocratiaeth. Mae’n bwysig i Bwyllgorau Rhanbarth a Phwyllgorau Pwnc allu teithio er mwyn dangos fod gennym ddiddordeb ym mhob rhan o Gymru. Yr wyf wedi bod yn arbennig o falch o weld myfyrwyr ysgol yng nghyfarfodydd ein Pwyllgorau Rhanbarth. Bu hynny’n fuddiol. Gallem wneud mwy i ymwneud â phobl ifanc mewn modd mwy systemataidd. Mae gennym lwyddiant y prosiect Llais Ifanc/Young Voice. Efallai y gallwn adeiladu ar hwnnw, gan ddefnyddio Pwyllgorau Rhanbarth i sefydlu cysylltiadau gwell fyth gyda’r sectorau addysg.

I also pay tribute to Peter, who has been an excellent Chair. With a light hand, he has managed to get us through all our business with good humour. I hope that the subsequent Chair can do the same.

Talaf deyrnged hefyd i Peter, a fu’n Gadeirydd ardderchog. Gyda llaw ysgafn, llwyddodd i’n llywio drwy’n holl fusnes mewn hwyliau da. Gobeithiaf y bydd y Cadeirydd nesaf yn gallu gwneud yr un modd.

David Lloyd siaradwyd yn Gymraeg t. 47

David Lloyd spoken in Welsh p. 47

Nid af dros y pwyntiau a wnaethpwyd eisoes. Yr wyf yn un o’r Aelodau hynny sydd â mandad deuol gan fy mod yn aelod o Bwyllgor Rhanbarth y De-orllewin a Phwyllgor Rhanbarth y De-ddwyrain. Mae tyndra’n bodoli, fel y soniwyd eisoes, gyda’n gwaith etholaethol. Ar ddau ddydd Gwener dilynol yr ydym mewn gwahanol gyfarfodydd Pwyllgor Rhanbarth, un yn y de-orllewin ac wedyn un yn y de-ddwyrain yr wythnos ganlynol. Mae hynny yn esgor ar bwysau ychwanegol o ran sut yr ydym yn trefnu ein gwaith etholaethol. Dylem ystyried y tyndra hwnnw.

I will not go over the points already made. I am one of those Members with a dual mandate as I am a member of the South West Wales Committee and of the South East Wales Regional Committee. Tension exists, as has already been mentioned, with our consituency work. On two subsequent Fridays we are in different Regional Committee meetings, one in the south-west, and then one in the south-east the following week. That creates additional pressures on how we arrange our constituency work. We should consider that tension.

Yr wyf innau hefyd yn llongyfarch Peter ar y modd y mae wedi cadeirio Pwyllgor Rhanbarth y De-orllewin. Mae’r sesiynau meicroffon agored wedi bod yn arbennig o lwyddiannus. Dylem hyrwyddo defnydd ohonynt. Mae gan y cyhoedd broblem gyda’r Cynulliad o hyd ac mae’r Pwyllgorau Rhanbarth yn agwedd gref, gyhoeddus ar ein gweithgareddau. Felly, dylem hyrwyddo rhagor o ryngweithio a sesiynau cwestiwn gyda’r cyhoedd, a rhoi mwy o ryddid i’r cyhoedd fod yn rhan o’r cyfarfod. Eisteddais ar ddau Bwyllgor Rhanbarth a fu’n trafod iechyd yn unig yn Llanelli a’r Barri. Ni ddaeth llawer o ddilyniant o hynny. Fel aelod o’r Pwyllgor Iechyd a Gwasanaethau Cymdeithasol, byddai’n well gennyf weld y Pwyllgor hwnnw yn cyfarfod mewn gwahanol ardaloedd o Gymru. Felly, dylai fod dilyniant i’r hyn a drafodasom yn y Pwyllgor Iechyd a Gwasanaethau Cymdeithasol mewn gwahanol ardaloedd o Gymru.

I also congratulate Peter on how he has chaired the South West Wales Regional Committee. The open mike sessions have been especially successful. We should promote the use of them. The public still has a problem with the Assembly and the Regional Committees are a strong, public aspect of our activities. Therefore, we should promote more interaction and question sessions with the public, and give more freedom to the public to become part of the meeting. I sat on two Regional Committees that only discussed health in Llanelli and Barry. There has not been much follow-up from that. As a member of the Health and Social Services Committee, I would prefer that Committee to meet in different parts of Wales. Therefore, there should be follow-up to what we have discussed in the Health and Social Services Committee in the different areas of Wales.

Christine Chapman spoken in English p. 48

Christine Chapman siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 48

I will make two general points about the operation of the Regional Committees. I know that I am repeating, but I want to reinforce what people have said. I welcome these reports and appreciate the Committees’ work. I have enjoyed being a member of the South East Wales Regional Committee. However, I continue to be disappointed with many aspects of the Committees. As Carwyn mentioned, I want to discuss the Members’ attendance. Eight Members sent their apologies to the February meeting of the South East Wales Regional Committee and nine Members sent their apologies to the meeting on 9 March. However, at the last meeting in Rhondda Cynon Taff, 15 Members did not attend. Those are startling figures. I am sure that they had a good reason but I think it is worth mentioning today. We need to address that quickly. How can we hope to engage with the wider public at these meetings—an effective and positive aspect of the Regional Committees—when there is such a low turnout?

Gwnaf ddau bwynt cyffredinol am weithrediad y Pwyllgorau Rhanbarth. Gwn fy mod yn ailadrodd, ond yr wyf eisiau ategu’r hyn y mae pobl wedi’i ddweud. Croesawaf yr adroddiadau hyn a gwerthfawrogaf waith y Pwyllgorau. Yr wyf wedi mwynhau bod yn aelod o Bwyllgor Rhanbarth y De-ddwyrain. Fodd bynnag, parhaf i fod yn siomedig â sawl agwedd ar y Pwyllgorau. Fel y soniodd Carwyn, hoffwn drafod presenoldeb Aelodau. Anfonodd wyth Aelod eu hymddiheuriadau i gyfarfod mis Chwefror Pwyllgor Rhanbarth y De-ddwyrain ac anfonodd naw Aelod eu hymddiheuriadau i’r cyfarfod ar 9 Mawrth. Fodd bynnag, yn y cyfarfod diwethaf yn Rhondda Cynon Taf, yr oedd 15 Aelod yn absennol. Mae’r rheini’n ffigurau dychrynllyd. Yr wyf yn siŵr fod ganddynt reswm da ond credaf ei fod yn werth ei grybwyll heddiw. Y mae angen inni roi sylw i hynny ar fyrder. Sut y gallwn obeithio cyfathrebu â’r cyhoedd yn ehangach yn y cyfarfodydd hyn—agwedd effeithiol a chadarnhaol ar y Pwyllgorau Rhanbarth—pan y mae bresenoldeb mor isel?

Secondly, I want to discuss the engagement with the public. Part of the devolution process has been that the people of Wales feel closer to us as politicians. Carwyn made that point and someone mentioned it to me in an area I visited a few weeks ago. That is the benefit of having an Assembly. Many debates in this Chamber have looked at new ways of approaching policy-making in Wales, which is about making politics relevant to the man, woman or child in the street. The Regional Committees have an even greater potential to do that. It is about engaging people in the democratic process.

Yn ail, hoffwn drafod y cyfathrebu gyda’r cyhoedd. Rhan o’r broses ddatganoli yw fod pobl Cymru wedi dod i deimlo’n agosach atom ni wleidyddion. Soniodd Carwyn am hynny a chrybwyllodd rhywun y peth wrthyf mewn ardal yr ymwelais â hi ychydig wythnosau’n ôl. Dyna fudd o gael Cynulliad. Mae llawer o ddadleuon yn y Siambr hon wedi edrych ar ffyrdd newydd o lunio polisi yng Nghymru, a hynny’n seiliedig ar wneud gwleidyddiaeth yn berthnasol i’r dyn, y fenyw neu’r plentyn yn y stryd. Mae gan y Pwyllgorau Rhanbarth botensial mwy fyth i wneud hynny. Mater o roi rhan i bobl yn y broses ddemocrataidd ydyw.

I echo what Janice, Edwina and Carwyn have said about publicity. These meetings are publicised, but we could do much more. It is not just about putting advertisements in newspapers, but encouraging people to participate. That is vital. We have had good open mike sessions when the public have been present. The debate is worthwhile when the public turn up, and reinforces our culture of openness and transparency. The Regional Committees have generally been an excellent way forward but we can do much more.

Adleisiaf yr hyn a ddywedodd Janice, Edwina a Carwyn am gyhoeddusrwydd. Rhoddir cyhoeddusrwydd i’r cyfarfodydd hyn, ond gallem wneud llawer mwy. Nid dim ond mater o roi hysbysebion mewn papurau newydd ydyw, ond o annog pobl i gyfranogi. Mae hynny’n holl bwysig. Cawsom sesiynau meic agored da pan fu’r cyhoedd yn bresennol. Mae’r ddadl yn werth chweil pan ddaw’r cyhoedd i’r cyfarfodydd, ac mae’n atgyfnerthu’n diwylliant agored a thryloyw. Bu’r Pwyllgorau Rhanbarth yn gyffredinol yn gam rhagorol ymlaen ond gallwn wneud llawer mwy.

Karen Sinclair spoken in English p. 49

Karen Sinclair siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 49

I will be brief because I know that time is short. I thank Gareth as the Chair of the North Wales Regional Committee during the first year. We were breaking new ground and there was no role model. The first year was the start of an evolutionary process for the Regional Committees. Christine has attempted to crystallise the possibilities for the way forward. Therefore, I support Christine’s amendment. However, there are resource problems. Some of us in the Labour group have talked with our Committee Clerk about the possibilities for ways forward along similar lines to what you have proposed today Christine. We will have certain resource problems in carrying forward and achieving what we want to achieve, and I say that while sitting behind Edwina. We will make a difference and become more relevant as people realise and accept what we are doing and see how we start to give feedback to the Assembly in a relevant way. Then they will see tangible evidence of the fact that they have spoken to us and given evidence and that we have conveyed their opinions, not simply on an individual basis—we all do that as AMs—but as a Committee and a collective team that represents our region whatever our political colour. We sit and listen, and we must be able to give relevant feedback to the relevant Committees. I support Christine’s amendment.

Byddaf yn gryno oherwydd gwn fod amser yn brin. Diolchaf i Gareth fel Cadeirydd Pwyllgor Rhanbarth y Gogledd yn ystod y flwyddyn gyntaf. Yr oeddem yn torri tir newydd ac nid oedd model rôl. Y flwyddyn gyntaf oedd dechrau’r broses esblygol i’r Pwyllgorau Rhanbarth. Mae Christine wedi ceisio crisialu’r posibiliadau ar gyfer y ffordd ymlaen. Felly, cefnogaf welliant Christine. Fodd bynnag, mae problemau adnoddau. Mae rhai ohonom yn y grŵp Llafur wedi siarad â’n Clerc Pwyllgor ynglŷn â’r posibiliadau ar gyfer ffyrdd ymlaen ar hyd llinellau tebyg i’r hyn yr ydych wedi’i gynnig heddiw, Christine. Bydd gennym rai problemau o ran adnoddau wrth symud ymlaen a chyflawni’r hyn y dymunwn ei gyflawni, a dywedaf hynny a minnau’n eistedd tu ôl i Edwina. Dechreuwn wneud gwahaniaeth a dod yn fwy perthnasol wrth i bobl sylweddoli a derbyn yr hyn yr ydym yn ei wneud a gweld sut y byddwn yn dechrau rhoi adborth i’r Cynulliad mewn ffordd berthnasol. Wedyn gwelant dystiolaeth bendant o’r ffaith eu bod wedi siarad â ni ac wedi rhoi tystiolaeth a’n bod wedi cyfleu eu barn, nid yn unig ar sail unigol—bydd pawb ohonom yn gwneud hynny beth bynnag fel Aelodau’r Cynulliad—ond fel Pwyllgor a thîm cyfunol sydd yn cynrychioli’n rhanbarth beth bynnag fo’n lliw gwleidyddol. Eisteddwn a gwrandawn, a rhaid inni allu rhoi adborth perthnasol i’r Pwyllgorau perthnasol. Cefnogaf welliant Christine.

Andrew Davies spoken in English p. 50

Andrew Davies siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 50

I welcome today’s opportunity to debate the work of Regional Committees. The Business Committee has discussed this and it felt that the Assembly as a whole needed to address it, which is why I tabled today’s debate. I also concur with the thanks that everyone has expressed to Gareth, Peter, Carwyn and Glyn for chairing the Regional Committees in their first year.

Croesawaf y cyfle heddiw i drafod gwaith y Pwyllgorau Rhanbarth. Mae’r Pwyllgor Busnes wedi trafod hwn a theimlai fod angen i’r Cynulliad yn ei gyfanrwydd roi sylw iddo, sef paham y cyflwynais y ddadl heddiw. Hoffwn ategu’r diolch a fynegwyd gan bawb i Gareth, Peter, Carwyn a Glyn am gadeirio’r Pwyllgorau Rhanbarth yn eu blwyddyn gyntaf.

We have heard a lot about the Committees’ work and many views about their future direction. I want to pick up on this last point in my closing remarks, namely, how we should develop the role of these Committees. I will consider the importance of their role.

Clywsom lawer am waith y Pwyllgorau a sawl barn ynghylch eu cyfeiriad i’r dyfodol. Hoffwn ymhelaethu ar y pwynt hwn yn fy sylwadau cloi, sef, sut y dylem ddatblygu rôl y Pwyllgorau hyn. Ystyriaf bwysigrwydd eu rôl.

The Assembly must represent, and be seen to represent, every part of Wales. Comments that the Assembly is failing to help particular areas have been a cause of considerable concern to Members of all political parties. I thank Gareth Jones for picking up on the points that I made when answering the First Secretary’s questions recently. I said that if there is a perception—and I said at the time that I thought it was a false perception—that the Assembly is not serving all parts of Wales, then we all have a role to play in countering that.

Rhaid i’r Cynulliad gynrychioli pob rhan o Gymru, a chael ei weld yn gwneud hynny. Mae sylwadau bod y Cynulliad heb fod o unrhyw gymorth i ardaloedd penodol wedi achosi cryn bryder i Aelodau o bob plaid wleidyddol. Diolchaf i Gareth Jones am gyfeirio at y pwyntiau a wneuthum wrth ateb cwestiynau’r Prif Ysgrifennydd yn ddiweddar. Dywedais, os oes canfyddiad—a dywedais ar y pryd fy mod yn credu mai canfyddiad di-sail ydoedd—nad yw’r Cynulliad yn gwasanaethu pob rhan o Gymru, yna mae gennym oll rôl i’w chwarae i wrthbrofi hynny.

We must remember Wales’s history. We have a long history of being more than ready to fall out among ourselves rather than pull together to face challenges. There are no longer Marcher Lords on our boundaries, but we are now part of a global economy in which even large nations struggle to make their voices heard. The Assembly provides us with a vehicle, for the first time, to present and create a united and outward-looking Wales. We must not spoil, or give up, that opportunity.

Rhaid inni gofio hanes Cymru. Mae gennym hanes hir o fod yn fwy na pharod i gecru ymysg ein gilydd yn hytrach na chyd-dynnu i wynebu her. Nid oes Arglwyddi Mers mwyach ar ein gororau, ond yr ydym bellach yn rhan o economi byd-eang, lle mae hyd yn oed y gwledydd mawr yn gorfod brwydro i sicrhau y clywir eu llais. Mae’r Cynulliad yn darparu cerbyd inni, am y tro cyntaf, i gyflwyno a chreu Cymru unedig sydd â’i golygon tuag allan. Rhaid inni beidio â difetha nac ildio’r cyfle hwnnw.

The Assembly is physically based in Cardiff—and as a Member for Swansea you know how much that grieves me—but its 60 Members provide a level of local representation for all parts of Wales that has never been seen before. Public scrutiny of local issues is substantially higher than under the old Welsh Office. We are held to account by locally-elected politicians.

Mae’r Cynulliad wedi’i leoli yn gorfforol yng Nghaerdydd—ac fel Aelod dros Abertawe gwyddoch gymaint o loes yw hynny imi—ond mae ei 60 Aelod yn cynnig lefel o gynrychiolaeth leol i bob rhan o Gymru nas gwelwyd erioed o’r blaen. Mae sylw cyhoeddus i faterion lleol yn sylweddol fwy nag o dan yr hen Swyddfa Gymreig. Cawn ein dal i gyfrif gan wleidyddion a etholir yn lleol.

As an institution, we must do all we can to demonstrate that we are working effectively for all of Wales. I echo Elin Jones’s point that we must treat all parts of Wales equitably. That was a well made point.

Fel sefydliad, rhaid inni wneud popeth a allwn i ddangos ein bod yn gweithio’n effeithiol dros Gymru i gyd. Adleisiaf bwynt Elin Jones fod yn rhaid inni roi chwarae teg i bob rhan o Gymru. Gwnaethpwyd y pwynt hwnnw’n dda.

The Regional Committees have an important part to play in providing tangible evidence of the Assembly’s interest in each region of Wales. From my own experience on the South West Wales Regional Committee—as Business Secretary it is the only public committee on which I play a political role—there has been an active and healthy willingness among organisations and institutions in our region to engage with the Assembly. That has also been true of individual citizens.

Mae gan y Pwyllgorau Rhanbarth ran bwysig i’w chwarae yn darparu tystiolaeth bendant o ddiddordeb y Cynulliad ym mhob rhanbarth o Gymru. O’m profiad i fy hun ar Bwyllgor Rhanbarth y De-orllewin—fel Trefnydd dyna’r unig bwyllgor cyhoeddus lle chwaraeaf rôl wleidyddol—bu parodrwydd byw ac iach ymhlith cyrff a sefydliadau yn ein rhanbarth i ymwneud â’r Cynulliad. Bu hynny’n wir am ddinasyddion unigol hefyd.

The issue of Regional Committees took up a large amount of the National Assembly Advisory Group’s time. I am pleased to see that three Committee members are back in the Chamber. There was a considerable, intense and wide-ranging discussion in the NAAG about the role of Subject Committees. The fact that that discussion took place may well reflect a lack of clarity about the role and purpose of Regional Committees, with which we still struggle.

Treuliodd Grŵp Cynghori’r Cynulliad Cenedlaethol lawer o amser ar fater Pwyllgorau Rhanbarth. Mae’n dda gennyf weld fod tri o aelodau’r Pwyllgor yn ôl yn y Siambr. Cafwyd trafodaeth sylweddol, frwd ac eang ei chwmpas yn y Grŵp Cynghori ynglŷn â rôl Pwyllgorau Rhanbarth. Efallai’n wir fod y ffaith i’r drafodaeth honno ddigwydd yn adlewyrchu diffyg eglurder ynghylch rôl a phwrpas Pwyllgorau Rhanbarth, yr ydym yn dal i ymgodymu ag ef.

While a good start has been made in using the Committees to consult regionally on issues such as European funding and sustainable development, there are also some lessons to be learnt and areas that require improvement.

Er y gwnaethpwyd dechreuad da drwy ddefnyddio’r Pwyllgorau i ymgynghori’n rhanbarthol ar faterion fel arian Ewropeaidd a datblygu cynaliadwy, mae rhai gwersi i’w dysgu a mannau lle mae angen gwella hefyd.

On developing the role of the Regional Committees, in the light of this debate, I want several issues to be discussed further on a cross-party basis so that we can strengthen our presence in all the regions of Wales. We must pursue three themes in particular. First, we must consider how the Committees can have a more specific role in advising on issues where the regional input is important. This would help to make the Regional Committees’ influence on the work of the Cabinet, the Assembly and the Subject Committees more tangible and, possibly, more focused. As Rosemary Butler informed me earlier, she was unaware that the North Wales Regional Committee had discussed autism. She had not seen any evidence or submissions from that meeting. There are clearly lessons to be learnt about how the Regional Committees can feed information into the system and into our decision-making processes. However, we must be careful that we do not cut across other roles or create needless duplication in doing this at.

Ar ddatblygu rôl y Pwyllgorau Rhanbarth, yng ngoleuni’r ddadl hon, hoffwn sawl mater gael ei trafod ymhellach ar draws y pleidiau fel y gallwn gryfhau’n presenoldeb yn holl ranbarthau Cymru. Rhaid inni fynd ar ôl tair thema yn arbennig. Yn gyntaf, rhaid inni ystyried sut y gall y Pwyllgorau gael rôl fwy penodol o gynghori ar faterion lle mae’r mewnbwn rhanbarthol yn bwysig. Byddai hyn yn helpu gwneud dylanwad y Pwyllgorau Rhanbarth ar waith y Cabinet, y Cynulliad a’r Pwyllgorau Pwnc yn fwy sylweddol ac, o bosibl, yn fwy canolbwyntiol. Fel y dywedodd Rosemary Butler wrthyf yn gynharach, nid oedd hi’n ymwybodol fod Pwyllgor Rhanbarth y Gogledd wedi trafod awtistiaeth. Nid oedd wedi gweld unrhyw dystiolaeth na chyflwyniadau o’r cyfarfod hwnnw. Yn amlwg mae gwersi i’w dysgu ynghylch sut y gall y Pwyllgorau Rhanbarth fwydo gwybodaeth i mewn i’r system ac i’n prosesau o wneud penderfyniadau. Fodd bynnag, rhaid inni ofalu na fyddwn yn torri ar draws rolau eraill nac yn creu dyblygu diangen wrth wneud hynny.

Gareth Jones siaradwyd yn Gymraeg t. 52

Gareth Jones spoken in Welsh p. 52

Er gwybodaeth ac eglurhad, ni chredaf i Bwyllgor Rhanbarth y Gogledd wyntyllu na thrafod awtistiaeth o gwbl. Efallai fod gan Christine fwy o wybodaeth nag sydd gennyf fi fel Cadeirydd.

For information and clarification, I do not believe that the North Wales Regional Committee aired or discussed autism at all. Perhaps Christine Humphreys has more information than I have as Chair.

Christine Humphreys spoken in English p. 52

Christine Humphreys siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 52

I feel that we should discuss that issue as we have not yet done so.

Teimlaf y dylem drafod y mater hwnnw gan nad ydym wedi gwneud hynny eto.

Andrew Davies spoken in English p. 52

Andrew Davies siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 52

I stand corrected. As I proposed in the Business Committee, one answer would be to tie the work of the Regional Committees much closer with the Subject Committees’ forward agenda. This could lead to some agreed joint working on issues. It could include the evidence-taking role that Christine Humphreys envisages in her amendment, but it would have to fall short of formal reports. The Committees do not meet sufficiently frequently to steer the production of those reports or any others. If Christine is comfortable with the idea of these being more along the lines of written feedback and input, I do not see a problem in supporting her amendment.

Derbyniaf fy nghywiro. Fel y cynigiais yn y Pwyllgor Busnes, un ateb fyddai clymu gwaith y Pwyllgorau Rhanbarth yn llawer nes at agenda’r Pwyllgorau Pwnc i’r dyfodol. Gallai hyn arwain at gytuno ar rywfaint o gydweithio ar faterion. Gallai gynnwys y rôl o gymryd tystiolaeth a ragwelir gan Christine Humphreys yn ei gwelliant, ond ni fyddai’n mynd cyn belled ag adroddiadau ffurfiol. Nid yw’r Pwyllgorau’n cyfarfod yn ddigon aml i lywio cynhyrchiad yr adroddiadau hynny nac unrhyw rai eraill. Os yw Christine yn gyfforddus gyda’r syniad o gael y rhain yn fwy ar linellau adborth a mewnbwn ysgrifenedig, ni welaf broblem o ran cefnogi ei gwelliant.

Secondly, we must consider the relationship between the Committees and the public bodies working in their areas. While there has been much useful discussion, the precise relationships and the input from the Committees into the policy-making framework for those bodies has been unclear. We must make that input much more transparent as part of our planning cycles, but without making it cumbersome.

Yn ail, rhaid inni ystyried y berthynas rhwng y Pwyllgorau a’r cyrff cyhoeddus sydd yn gweithio yn eu hardaloedd. Tra cafwyd llawer o drafod buddiol, bu’r union berthynas a’r mewnbwn gan y Pwyllgorau i’r fframwaith llunio polisïau ar gyfer y cyrff hynny yn aneglur. Rhaid inni wneud y mewnbwn hwnnw’n llawer mwy tryloyw fel rhan o’n cylchoedd cynllunio, ond heb ei wneud yn drwsgl.

Thirdly, I agree that we should consider how we use the Committees to engage people locally. The various consultation events have been useful, and we must consider how we can increase their value. We should look for imaginative ways of getting local opinion into the Committees, considering how and where we hold meetings and, as many Members noted, how they are publicised. We must then be clear about how the Assembly uses that input.

Yn drydydd, cytunaf y dylem ystyried sut y defnyddiwn y Pwyllgorau i gynnwys pobl yn lleol. Bu’r amryfal ddigwyddiadau ymgynghori yn ddefnyddiol, a rhaid inni ystyried sut y gallwn gynyddu eu gwerth. Dylem edrych am ffyrdd dychmygus o fwydo barn leol i’r Pwyllgorau, ystyried sut a ble y cynhaliwn gyfarfodydd ac, fel y nododd sawl Aelod, sut y rhoddir cyhoeddusrwydd iddynt. Wedyn rhaid inni fod yn glir ynghylch sut y mae’r Cynulliad yn defnyddio’r mewnbwn hwnnw.

I am pleased that I had the opportunity to respond to this debate and to express my views. The role of Regional Committees is a matter for the Assembly to decide. It will be for the Chairs to reflect on these issues, and the others raised in this debate, as they consider their programmes for the next year. I am convinced that the success of the Regional Committees is vital to the Assembly’s credibility. I will continue to work with the Chairs and the Business Committee to help to develop a clearer way ahead, demonstrating how we work for every part of Wales.

Yr wyf yn falch imi gael y cyfle i ymateb i’r ddadl hon ac i fynegi fy marn. Mater i’r Cynulliad ei benderfynu yw rôl y Pwyllgorau Rhanbarth. Caiff y Cadeiryddion feddwl am y cwestiynau hyn, ac eraill a godwyd yn y ddadl hon, wrth iddynt ystyried eu rhaglenni am y flwyddyn nesaf. Yr wyf yn argyhoeddedig bod llwyddiant y Pwyllgorau Rhanbarth yn hanfodol i hygrededd y Cynulliad. Parhaf i weithio gyda’r Cadeiryddion a’r Pwyllgor Busnes i helpu datblygu ffordd gliriach ymlaen, gan arddangos y modd yr ydym yn gweithio dros bob rhan o Gymru.

Gwelliant 1 Christine Humphreys t. 53

Amendment 1 Christine Humphreys p. 53

DerbyniwydAdopted O blaidFor 36 YmatalAbstain 4 Yn erbynAgainst 4

Derbyniwyd y gwelliant.

Amendment adopted.

Sut y pleidleisiodd yr AelodauHow Members voted
O blaidFor (36)
  • Lorraine Barrett
  • Mick Bates
  • Peter Black
  • Nick Bourne
  • Alun Cairns
  • Christine Chapman
  • Andrew Davies
  • David Davies
  • Geraint Davies
  • Glyn Davies
  • Richard Edwards
  • Delyth Evans
  • Michael German
  • Janice Gregory
  • Christine Gwyther
  • Alison Halford
  • Brian Hancock
  • Edwina Hart
  • Christine Humphreys
  • Ann Jones
  • Carwyn Jones
  • Gareth Jones
  • Ieuan Wyn Jones
  • Huw Lewis
  • David Melding
  • Tom Middlehurst
  • Lynne Neagle
  • Alun Pugh
  • Jenny Randerson
  • Peter Rogers
  • Janet Ryder
  • Karen Sinclair
  • Gwenda Thomas
  • Owen John Thomas
  • Kirsty Williams
  • Phil Williams
YmatalAbstain (4)
  • Jocelyn Davies
  • Elin Jones
  • Helen Mary Jones
  • David Lloyd
Yn erbynAgainst (4)
  • Cynog Dafis
  • William Graham
  • Rod Richards
  • Rhodri Glyn Thomas

Cynnig Andrew Davies t. 55

Motion Andrew Davies p. 55

DerbyniwydAdopted O blaidFor 41 YmatalAbstain 3 Yn erbynAgainst 0

Derbyniwyd y cynnig wedi’i ddiwygio.

Amended motion adopted.

Sut y pleidleisiodd yr AelodauHow Members voted
O blaidFor (41)
  • Lorraine Barrett
  • Mick Bates
  • Peter Black
  • Nick Bourne
  • Alun Cairns
  • Christine Chapman
  • Andrew Davies
  • David Davies
  • Geraint Davies
  • Glyn Davies
  • Jocelyn Davies
  • Richard Edwards
  • Delyth Evans
  • Michael German
  • William Graham
  • Janice Gregory
  • Christine Gwyther
  • Alison Halford
  • Brian Hancock
  • Edwina Hart
  • Christine Humphreys
  • Ann Jones
  • Carwyn Jones
  • Elin Jones
  • Gareth Jones
  • Helen Mary Jones
  • Ieuan Wyn Jones
  • Huw Lewis
  • David Lloyd
  • David Melding
  • Tom Middlehurst
  • Lynne Neagle
  • Alun Pugh
  • Jenny Randerson
  • Peter Rogers
  • Janet Ryder
  • Karen Sinclair
  • Gwenda Thomas
  • Owen John Thomas
  • Kirsty Williams
  • Phil Williams
YmatalAbstain (3)
  • Rod Richards
  • Rhodri Glyn Thomas
  • Cynog Dafis

Yr Iaith Gymraeg

The Welsh Language

Jane Davidson Y Dirprwy Lywydd siaradwyd yn Gymraeg t. 55

Jane Davidson The Deputy Presiding Officer spoken in Welsh p. 55

Symudwn ymlaen at y ddadl ar yr iaith Gymraeg. Fel un sydd yn dysgu’r iaith, yr wyf yn falch o gadeirio’r ddadl hon.

We move on to the debate on the Welsh language. As someone who is learning the language, I am pleased to chair this debate.

Yr wyf wedi dethol y gwelliannau canlynol: gwelliant 1 yn enw Cynog Dafis a gwelliant 5 yn enw Elin Jones, gwelliannau 2, 3 a 4 yn enw Jonathan Morgan a gwelliannau 6, 7, 8 a 9 yn enw Christine Humphreys.

I have selected the following amendments: amendment 1 in the name of Cynog Dafis and amendment 5 in the name of Elin Jones, amendments 2, 3 and 4 in the name of Jonathan Morgan and amendments 6, 7, 8 and 9 in the name of Christine Humphreys.

Tom Middlehurst The Secretary for Post-16 Education and Training spoken in English p. 56

Tom Middlehurst Yr Ysgrifennydd Addysg a Hyfforddiant Ôl-16 siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 56

I propose that

Cynigiaf fod

Tom Middlehurst The Secretary for Post-16 Education and Training (continued) spoken in English p. 56

Tom Middlehurst Yr Ysgrifennydd Addysg a Hyfforddiant Ôl-16 (parhad) siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 56

I regret that, unlike more successful students in this Chamber and despite the valiant efforts of my Welsh tutor, I have not yet made sufficient progress to enable me to address you in Welsh this afternoon. I am one of 80 per cent of Welsh people, who, while we take pride in the language and wish it to flourish, are not yet lucky enough to be able to speak it. However, I assure you that being a Welsh learner has given me a deeper understanding of the language’s place in Wales today.

Gresynaf nad wyf, yn wahanol i fyfyrwyr mwy llwyddiannus yn y Siambr hon ac er gwaethaf ymdrechion glew fy nhiwtor Cymraeg, wedi llwyddo eto i ddysgu digon i’m galluogi i’ch cyfarch yn y Gymraeg y prynhawn yma. Yr wyf fi’n un o’r 80 y cant o Gymry sydd, er ein bod yn ymfalchïo yn yr iaith ac yn dymuno iddi ffynnu, heb fod yn ddigon ffodus eto i’w medru hi. Fodd bynnag, fe’ch sicrhaf fod bod yn ddysgwr wedi rhoi dealltwriaeth ddyfnach imi o le’r iaith yng Nghymru heddiw.

That kind of understanding is as important as learning the language because the goodwill of the 80 per cent toward the cause of the language is crucial. The language must not divide Wales; it must not divide east from west or incomer from Welsh born. It amazes me that there have been calls in a prominent newspaper, the Daily Post, for my own county, Flintshire, to turn its back on Wales and to reject the language, on the basis of an article written by a so-called academic with roots in Buckley who now lives and works in Manchester. It is vital that the Assembly continues to build on the consensus for bilingualism that exists across Wales.

Mae’r math hwnnw o ddealltwriaeth cyn bwysiced â dysgu’r iaith oherwydd mae ewyllys da’r 80 y cant tuag at achos yr iaith yn allweddol. Rhaid i’r iaith beidio â rhannu Cymru; rhaid iddi beidio â chreu mur rhwng dwyrain a gorllewin na rhwng newydd-ddyfodiad a Chymro cynhenid. Fe’m syfrdanwyd o weld galwadau mewn papur newydd amlwg, Daily Post, am i’m sir fy hun, Sir y Fflint, droi ei chefn ar Gymru a gwrthod yr iaith, ar sail erthygl a ysgrifennwyd gan academydd honedig sydd â’i wreiddiau ym Mwcle ac sydd bellach yn byw ac yn gweithio ym Manceinion. Mae’n holl bwysig bod y Cynulliad yn dal i adeiladu ar y consensws o blaid dwyieithrwydd sydd yn bodoli ar draws Cymru.

An approach that loses the north or south-east will not succeed. Let us remember that many famous Welshmen—for example, Daniel Owen, the greatest novelist of the Welsh language—belong to Mold and Flintshire and that the first Welsh-medium secondary school, Ysgol Glan Clwyd was established by the old Flintshire county council in Rhyl in 1956. Such was the vision and commitment of Flintshire at that time. The same commitment exists within the local education authority in Flintshire, which is at the forefront of language development in schools.

Ni fydd ymagwedd sydd yn colli’r gogledd neu’r de-ddwyrain yn llwyddo. Boed inni gofio bod llawer o Gymry enwog—er enghraifft, Daniel Owen, nofelydd mwyaf yr iaith Gymraeg—yn perthyn i’r Wyddgrug a Sir y Fflint ac y sefydlwyd yr ysgol uwchradd Gymraeg gyntaf, Ysgol Glan Clwyd, gan hen gyngor Sir y Fflint yn y Rhyl yn 1956. Dyna fesur y weledigaeth a’r ymroddiad a berthynai i Sir y Fflint bryd hynny. Ceir yr un ymroddiad o fewn yr awdurdod addysg lleol yn Sir y Fflint, sydd ar flaen y gad ym maes datblygu iaith mewn ysgolion.

Today’s debate is about the language, not the Welsh Language Board. However, I begin by putting on record my high estimation of its work. The board’s successes reflect how it has been led ably, first by John Elfed Jones, then by Dafydd Elis-Thomas and, today, by Rhodri Williams. As an executive body under the Assembly, the board is something of a bridge that connects the energy of the wider language movement with the support of the Labour administration and the Assembly. Bridges can be places where people meet and where valuable new ideas are born. The Board has a good record for generating new ideas.

Dadl am yr iaith, nid am Fwrdd yr Iaith Gymraeg, sydd gennym heddiw. Fodd bynnag, dechreuaf drwy roi ar gof a chadw fy mharch mawr i’w waith. Mae llwyddiannau’r bwrdd yn adlewyrchu’r modd y’i harweiniwyd yn abl, yn gyntaf gan John Elfed Jones, wedyn gan Dafydd Elis Thomas a heddiw gan Rhodri Williams. Fel corff gweithredol o dan y Cynulliad, mae’r bwrdd yn rhyw fath o bont sydd yn cysylltu egni’r mudiad iaith ehangach â chefnogaeth y weinyddiaeth Lafur a’r Cynulliad. Gall pontydd fod yn lleoedd lle bydd pobl yn cyfarfod a lle genir syniadau newydd gwerthfawr. Mae gan y Bwrdd record dda am gynhyrchu syniadau newydd.

The Assembly will have other opportunities to focus in detail on the Welsh Language Board and its work. The board is in the first group of Assembly sponsored public bodies to be covered under the new quinquennial review programme. The Subject Committee will shortly be invited to comment on the terms of reference for the review of the board before Edwina Hart and I commission it. The review will study all aspects of the board’s remit and its efficiency and effectiveness. The review will be completed this financial year and the draft report will be considered in detail by the Committee before the Cabinet reaches a view on its conclusions and recommendations.

Caiff y Cynulliad gyfleoedd eraill i ganolbwyntio’n fanwl ar Fwrdd yr Iaith Gymraeg a’i waith. Mae’r bwrdd yn y grŵp cyntaf o gyrff cyhoeddus a noddir gan y Cynulliad a ddaw o dan y rhaglen adolygu pum mlynedd newydd. Cyn hir gwahoddir y Pwyllgor Pwnc i roi sylwadau ar y cylch gorchwyl ar gyfer adolygu’r bwrdd cyn i Edwina Hart a minnau ei gomisiynu. Bydd yr adolygiad yn astudio holl agweddau cylch gwaith y bwrdd a’i effeithiolrwydd a’i effeithlonrwydd. Caiff yr adolygiad ei gwblhau yn y flwyddyn ariannol hon a chaiff yr adroddiad drafft ei ystyried yn fanwl gan y Pwyllgor cyn i’r Cabinet ffurfio barn ar ei gasgliadau a’i argymhellion.

I support amendment 2 in the name of Jonathan Morgan. The Welsh Language Board has made its mark since its establishment on a statutory basis in 1993. For example, in the public sector, around 140 Welsh language schemes have now been approved by the Welsh Language Board. Those include all types of bodies, from councils and health bodies, colleges and courts to government departments and agencies. This demonstrates that the Welsh Language Act 1993 is an effective piece of legislation.

Cefnogaf welliant 2 yn enw Jonathan Morgan. Mae Bwrdd yr Iaith Gymraeg wedi ennill bri ers ei sefydlu ar sail statudol yn 1993. Er enghraifft, yn y sector cyhoeddus, mae tua 140 o gynlluniau iaith Gymraeg bellach wedi’u cymeradwyo gan Fwrdd yr Iaith Gymraeg. Mae’r rheini yn cynnwys pob math o gyrff, o gynghorau a chyrff iechyd, colegau a llysoedd i adrannau ac asiantaethau llywodraeth. Dengys hyn fod Deddf yr Iaith Gymraeg 1993 yn ddarn effeithiol o ddeddfwriaeth.

The establishment of the S4C television channel was also a watershed in the fortunes of the language. S4C is the envy of many. Around 37 hours per week of Welsh language broadcasting is provided on analogue transmissions and around 84 hours per week on digital. Few other minority languages receive so much exposure in the popular media. I acknowledge, before I am reminded, that it was a Conservative Government that established S4C, the Welsh Language Act 1993 and the Welsh Language Board and included Welsh in the national curriculum. Some Members may think that it has taken too long for the Assembly to hold a general debate on the language, others may feel that this reflects a new maturity in our politics based on a wide consensus for bilingualism. I do not want to take up too much time in this debate because I want to hear the visions of other Members for the language. I draw attention to the significant advances made for the language in the first year of devolution. In ‘Betterwales.com’, the Assembly has outlined a groundbreaking policy objective and I sometimes feel that no-one has noticed, but I thank Cynog Dafis for amendment 1, which reassures me that that is not the case.

Yr oedd sefydlu sianel deledu S4C hefyd yn benllanw yn nhynged yr iaith. Mae S4C yn destun eiddigedd i lawer. Darperir tua 37 awr yr wythnos o ddarlledu Cymraeg ar drosglwyddiadau analog a thua 84 awr yr wythnos ar deledu digidol. Prin yw’r ieithoedd lleiafrifol eraill sydd yn cael cymaint o le yn y cyfryngau poblogaidd. Cydnabyddaf, cyn i neb f’atgoffa, mai Llywodraeth Geidwadol a sefydlodd S4C, Deddf yr Iaith Gymraeg 1993 a Bwrdd yr Iaith Gymraeg, ac a gynhwysodd y Gymraeg yn y cwricwlwm cenedlaethol. Dichon fod rhai Aelodau’n meddwl iddi gymryd gormod o amser i’r Cynulliad gynnal dadl gyffredinol ar yr iaith, teimla eraill efallai fod hyn yn adlewyrchu aeddfedrwydd newydd yn ein gwleidyddiaeth yn seiliedig ar gonsensws eang o blaid dwyieithrwydd. Nid oes arnaf eisiau cymryd gormod o amser yn y ddadl hon oherwydd mae arnaf eisiau clywed gweledigaethau Aelodau eraill ar gyfer yr iaith. Tynnaf sylw at y camau sylweddol ymlaen a gymerwyd dros yr iaith ym mlwyddyn gyntaf datganoli. Yn ‘Gwellcymru.com’ mae’r Cynulliad wedi amlinellu nod polisi sydd yn torri tir newydd, a theimlaf weithiau nad oes neb wedi sylwi, ond diolchaf i Cynog Dafis am welliant 1, sydd yn fy sicrhau nad yw hynny’n wir.

The Assembly’s strategic aim is to stabilise the number of Welsh speakers and to sustain the growth in the number of young Welsh speakers. We have said that we want more Welsh speakers overall by 2010 and the Subject Committee has resolved that the creation of a bilingual Wales is ‘an achievable national aim’. No Westminster Government ever set out to achieve such unambiguous goals for bilingualism in Wales. The Assembly has set out its belief that the language has a future. Let us remember that, in every decade of the twentieth century, the proportion of Welsh speakers in the population was lower at its close than at its beginning. A reverse in that pattern will be a stunning achievement. The most far-reaching step taken for Welsh in the first year of devolution has been the full implementation of the national curriculum requirement for Welsh at key stage 4 in non-Welsh speaking schools. I support Rosemary Butler’s determination to achieve that.

Nod strategol y Cynulliad yw sefydlogi nifer y siaradwyr Cymraeg a chynnal y twf yn y nifer o siaradwyr Cymraeg ifanc. Yr ydym wedi dweud ein bod eisiau cynyddu nifer cyffredinol y siaradwyr Cymraeg erbyn 2010 ac mae’r Pwyllgor Pwnc wedi penderfynu bod creu Cymru ddwyieithog yn ‘nod cenedlaethol cyraeddadwy’. Nid anelodd unrhyw Lywodraeth yn San Steffan erioed at sicrhau amcanion mor ddiamwys ar gyfer dwyieithrwydd yng Nghymru. Mae’r Cynulliad wedi amlinellu ei gred fod gan yr iaith ddyfodol. Boed inni gofio fod cyfran y siaradwyr Cymraeg yn y boblogaeth ym mhob un o ddegawdau’r ugeinfed ganrif yn llai ar ddiwedd y degawd nag ar ei gychwyn. Bydd gwrthdroi’r duedd honno’n gamp syfrdanol. Y cam mwyaf pellgyrhaeddol a gymerwyd dros y Gymraeg ym mlwyddyn gyntaf datganoli fu gweithredu’n llawn y gofyniad yn y cwricwlwm cenedlaethol am gyflwyno’r Gymraeg yng nghyfnod allweddol 4 mewn ysgolion di-Gymraeg. Cefnogaf benderfyniad Rosemary Butler i sicrhau hynny.

We all know how much progress young people can make in grasping subjects in those early years between 14 and 16 years of age. That is why we, as an administration, want all children in Wales to benefit from continuing with Welsh at this stage. We have resisted calls to divide east from west over the language and we stated that in our manifesto commitment. For that reason, I reject Jonathan Morgan’s amendment 3. I am surprised that his party still opposes that policy. If that opposition ever became Assembly policy, it would deprive thousands of Welsh children of the opportunity to become bilingual and it would seriously undermine progress that is currently being made—

Gwyddom oll faint o gynnydd y gall pobl ifanc ei wneud o ran deall pynciau yn y blynyddoedd cynnar hynny rhwng 14 ac 16 mlwydd oed. Dyna pam yr ydym, fel gweinyddiaeth, am i holl blant Cymru elwa o barhau gyda’r Gymraeg yn y cyfnod hwn. Yr ydym wedi sefyll yn erbyn galwadau am rannu’r dwyrain oddi wrth y gorllewin ar fater yr iaith a dywedasom hynny yn ein hymrwymiad maniffesto. Am y rheswm hwnnw, gwrthodaf welliant 3 Jonathan Morgan. Synnaf fod ei blaid ef yn dal i wrthwynebu’r polisi hwnnw. Pe bai’r gwrthwynebiad hwnnw byth yn dod yn bolisi Cynulliad, byddai’n amddifadu miloedd o blant Cymru o’r cyfle i fod yn ddwyieithog a byddai’n tanseilio’n ddifrifol y cynnydd sydd yn digwydd ar hyn o bryd—

David Davies spoken in English p. 59

David Davies siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 59

For the purpose of accuracy, it would not deprive anyone of the opportunity because we have never suggested taking the opportunity away from any school in Wales. Will you get the facts right? There is a big difference between having an opportunity to learn Welsh and having a policy of forcing people at 14 to learn it. The two words are different and I would expect the Secretary for Post-16 Education and Training to understand the simple difference between those words.

Er mwyn cywirdeb, ni fyddai’n amddifadu neb o’r cyfle gan nad ydym erioed wedi awgrymu dwyn y cyfle i ffwrdd oddi wrth unrhyw ysgol yng Nghymru. A wnewch roi’r ffeithiau’n gywir? Mae gwahaniaeth mawr rhwng cael cyfle i ddysgu Cymraeg a chael polisi o orfodi pobl i’w ddysgu’n 14 oed. Mae’r ddau air yn wahanol a byddwn yn disgwyl i’r Ysgrifennydd Addysg a Hyfforddiant Ôl-16 ddeall y gwahaniaeth syml rhwng y geiriau hynny.

Tom Middlehurst spoken in English p. 60

Tom Middlehurst siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 60

I firmly believe that the Welsh language should be part of compulsory education up to 16, which is why I am determined to support Rosemary Butler’s initiatives and recognise the importance of doing so if we are going to create a bilingual Wales within the foreseeable future.

Credaf yn gadarn y dylai’r Gymraeg fod yn rhan o addysg orfodol hyd at 16 oed, a dyna pam yr wyf yn benderfynol o gefnogi mentrau Rosemary Butler a chydnabod pwysigrwydd gwneud hynny os ydym am greu Cymru ddwyieithog o fewn y dyfodol rhagweladwy.

I welcomed the British Government’s signature of the European charter for minority languages in St David’s Day week. In fact, the range of measures in place to support Welsh already more than meet the charter’s requirements. It shows that the language policy in Wales measures up extremely well against the European yardstick as well as the domestic one. Plans for the Government’s signature of this charter have been in place since before devolution. I gave Subject Committee members full details of the 52 charter commitments on which I expect the British Government to be able to notify the Council of Europe when the charter is ratified later this year.

Croesewais weithred Llywodraeth Prydain yn llofnodi’r siarter Ewropeaidd dros ieithoedd lleiafrifol yn wythnos Dydd Gŵyl Dewi. Yn wir, mae’r mesurau sydd yn eu lle i gefnogi’r Gymraeg eisoes yn fwy nag ateb gofynion y siarter. Dengys fod y polisi iaith yng Nghymru’n cymharu’n eithriadol o dda â’r gofynion Ewropeaidd yn ogystal â rhai’r wlad hon. Yr oedd y cynlluniau i’r Llywodraeth lofnodi’r siarter hon yn eu lle cyn datganoli. Rhoddais fanylion llawn i’r Pwyllgor Pwnc am y 52 o ymrwymiadau siarter y disgwyliaf i Lywodraeth Prydain allu eu hysbysu i Gyngor Ewrop pan gadarnheir y siarter yn ddiweddarach eleni.

The charter will put the weight of an international treaty behind our policies for Welsh. I have also explained to the Committee that it will be possible for the UK to add to its charter commitments over time to reflect fully the development in policy.

Bydd y siarter yn rhoi pwysau cytundeb rhyngwladol y tu cefn i’n polisïau ar gyfer y Gymraeg. Yr wyf wedi egluro i’r Pwyllgor hefyd y bydd modd i’r DU ychwanegu at ei hymrwymiadau siarter dros amser i adlewyrchu’n llawn y datblygiad mewn polisi.

I said earlier that the Welsh Language Board is well placed to generate or lend its backing to new initiatives and ideas. The mentrau iaith, or language initiatives, are a clear example. Early after my appointment, I decided to give mentrau iaith a boost. I was pleased to have the support of other parties in my bid for additional resources, which was in turn supported by my colleague, Edwina Hart. It enabled the Welsh Language Board to increase by 43 per cent its grants for mentrau iaith this year. New mentrau are being set up in Caerphilly and in Neath and Port Talbot. The board is funding new workers for other mentrau across Wales. Mentrau are a practical means of investing in linguistic self-confidence at grass roots level. They are appropriate to different areas and needs within Wales. In November last year, I helped my own menter in Flintshire launch a Welsh speaking day at Broughton shopping centre. I went on to Porthmadog to see Menter Gwynedd and to meet representatives of mentrau from across Wales. Different approaches are needed to reflect the different needs of communities across Wales. The underlying concept of community language planning, which was developed by the Welsh Language Board and its partners, is valid across the country.

Dywedais yn gynharach fod Bwrdd yr Iaith Gymraeg mewn sefyllfa dda i gynhyrchu neu gefnogi mentrau a syniadau newydd. Mae’r mentrau iaith yn enghraifft glir. Yn fuan ar ôl fy mhenodi, penderfynais roi hwb i’r mentrau iaith. Yr oeddwn yn falch o gael cefnogaeth pleidiau eraill yn fy nghais am adnoddau ychwanegol, a gefnogwyd yn ei dro gan fy nghyd-Aelod, Edwina Hart. Galluogodd Fwrdd yr Iaith Gymraeg i gynyddu ei grantiau i fentrau iaith eleni 43 y cant. Mae mentrau newydd yn cael eu sefydlu yng Nghaerffili ac yng Nghastell-nedd a Phort Talbot. Mae’r bwrdd yn ariannu gweithwyr newydd i fentrau eraill ledled Cymru. Mae mentrau’n fodd ymarferol o fuddsoddi mewn hunan-hyder ieithyddol ar lefel llawr gwlad. Maent yn briodol i wahanol ardaloedd ac anghenion o fewn Cymru. Ym mis Tachwedd y llynedd, cynorthwyais fy menter fy hun yn Sir y Fflint i lansio diwrnod siarad Cymraeg yng nghanolfan siopa Brychdyn. Euthum ymlaen i Borthmadog i weld Menter Gwynedd ac i gyfarfod â chynrychiolwyr mentrau o bob rhan o Gymru. Mae angen gwahanol ddulliau o weithredu i adlewyrchu gwahanol anghenion cymunedau ledled Cymru. Mae cysyniad gwaelodol cynllunio iaith cymunedol, a ddatblygwyd gan Fwrdd yr Iaith Gyrmaeg a’i bartneriaid, yn ddilys ledled y wlad.

Glyn Davies spoken in English p. 61

Glyn Davies siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 61

How long are you going to continue? You have taken 15 minutes of the debate and many of us want to speak.

Am ba hyd yr ydych yn bwriadu parhau? Yr ydych wedi cymryd 15 munud o’r ddadl ac mae nifer ohonom yn dymuno siarad.

Tom Middlehurst spoken in English p. 61

Tom Middlehurst siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 61

This is an important debate—

Mae hon yn ddadl bwysig—

Glyn Davies spoken in English p. 61

Glyn Davies siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 61

We also believe that it is important.

Yr ydym ninnau’n credu ei bod yn bwysig hefyd.

Tom Middlehurst spoken in English p. 61

Tom Middlehurst siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 61

Will you allow me to answer your question? This is an important debate and we must do justice to it. It is important that we reflect on some of the Welsh Language Board’s important initiatives to support the development of the language. I therefore reject your comments.

A wnewch ganiatáu imi ateb eich cwestiwn? Mae hon yn ddadl bwysig a rhaid inni wneud cyfiawnder â hi. Mae’n bwysig ein bod yn ystyried rhai o fentrau pwysig Bwrdd yr Iaith Gymraeg i gefnogi datblygiad yr iaith. Felly gwrthodaf eich sylwadau.

I support Christine Humphreys’s amendments 6 and 7. Community initiatives are central to sustaining and promoting the language on the ground: in community centres, in playgroups and on the high street. The Welsh Language Board has put a great deal of energy into dialogue with the private, public and voluntary sectors in order to maximise the opportunities for individuals to use, read and hear Welsh in their own communities. This is part of the board’s remit from the Assembly.

Cefnogaf welliannau 6 a 7 gan Christine Humphreys. Mae mentrau cymunedol yn ganolog i gynnal a hyrwyddo’r iaith ar lawr gwlad: mewn canolfannau cymuned, mewn cylchoedd meithrin ac ar y stryd fawr. Mae Bwrdd yr Iaith Gymraeg wedi rhoi llawer o egni i mewn i ddeialog gyda’r sectorau preifat, cyhoeddus a gwirfoddol er mwyn cynyddu’r cyfleoedd i unigolion ddefnyddio, darllen a chlywed y Gymraeg yn eu cymunedau eu hunain. Dyma ran o’r cylch gwaith a roddodd y Cynulliad i’r bwrdd.

My policy priorities for the next year or so are to bring forward a new Welsh language scheme for the Assembly in the conduct of its business, bring forward new subordinate legislation—

Fy mlaenoriaethau polisi am y flwyddyn nesaf yn fras yw cyflwyno cynllun iaith Gymraeg newydd i’r Cynulliad yn y modd y mae’n cynnal ei fusnes, cyflwyno is-ddeddfwriaeth newydd—

Rod Richards a gododd—

Rod Richards rose—

Tom Middlehurst spoken in English p. 61

Tom Middlehurst siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 61

I will not give way. As I was saying, my policy priorities are to add to the list of public bodies that are subject to the Welsh Language Act 1993, address the findings of the quinquennial review of the Welsh Language Board and consider how the board might contribute further to delivering the Assembly’s language objectives as set out in ‘Betterwales.com’. On the last point, the task of setting the Board’s remit has been greatly assisted by the work of the Subject Committees. The Board submitted to the Committee a wide-ranging paper, describing possible future projects. The Committee questioned the Board thoroughly on those and supported the Board’s thinking. I welcome the paper as a guide to determining the future work of the Board within the resources allocated by the Assembly from year to year. I intend to honour that commitment when I set future remits for the Board.

Nid wyf am ildio. Fel yr oeddwn yn dweud, fy mlaenoriaethau polisi yw ychwanegu at y rhestr o gyrff cyhoeddus a ddaw dan Ddeddf yr Iaith Gymraeg 1993, rhoi sylw i ganfyddiadau’r adolygiad pum mlynedd o Fwrdd yr Iaith Gymraeg ac ystyried sut y gallai’r bwrdd gyfrannu ymhellach i gyflawni amcanion iaith y Cynulliad fel y’u hamlinellwyd yn ‘Gwellcymru.com’. Ar y pwynt olaf, cyfrannwyd yn fawr at y dasg o osod cylch gwaith y Bwrdd gan waith y Pwyllgorau Pwnc. Cyflwynodd y Bwrdd bapur eang ei faes i’r Pwyllgor, yn disgrifio prosiectau posibl i’r dyfodol. Holodd y Pwyllgor y Bwrdd yn drwyadl ar y rheini a chefnogodd syniadaeth y Bwrdd. Croesawaf y papur fel arweiniad i bennu gwaith y Bwrdd yn y dyfodol o fewn yr adnoddau a ddyrennir gan y Cynulliad o flwyddyn i flwyddyn. Bwriadaf anrhydeddu’r ymrwymiad hwnnw pan bennaf gylchoedd gwaith i’r Bwrdd yn y dyfodol.

I reject Jonathan Morgan’s amendment 4 because I want to endorse and underscore the Committee’s resolution, not simply note it.

Gwrthodaf welliant 4 gan Jonathan Morgan am fy mod eisiau cadarnhau a thanlinellu penderfyniad y Pwyllgor, nid dim ond ei nodi.

Rod Richards a gododd—

Rod Richards rose—

Jane Davidson The Deputy Presiding Officer spoken in English p. 62

Jane Davidson Y Dirprwy Lywydd siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 62

He is not giving way. In the interests of time, could the Secretary wind up?

Nid yw’n ildio. Er mwyn amser, a allai’r Ysgrifennydd ddirwyn i ben?

Tom Middlehurst spoken in English p. 62

Tom Middlehurst siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 62

I will deal with the amendments. Elin Jones proposed amendment 5 on the future work of the Committee. I support the amendment but the Committee will determine the timing of such a review, perhaps in the context of the outcome of the quinquennial review. The Welsh language scheme will be seen by the Subject Committees, and the draft Welsh language scheme for the Assembly will be seen by the Committees and the Assembly. I do not want to pre-empt that debate at this stage.

Deliaf â’r gwelliannau. Cynigiodd Elin Jones welliant 5 ar waith y Pwyllgor yn y dyfodol. Cefnogaf y gwelliant ond bydd y Pwyllgor yn penderfynu ar amseriad y cyfryw adolygiad, efallai yng nghyd-destun canlyniad yr adolygiad pum mlynedd. Gwelir y cynllun iaith Gymraeg gan y Pwyllgorau Pwnc, a chaiff y cynllun iaith Gymraeg drafft i’r Cynulliad ei weld gan y Pwyllgorau a’r Cynulliad. Nid oes arnaf eisiau achub y blaen ar y ddadl honno ar hyn o bryd.

The language is a cross-cutting issue. That is reflected in decisions taken by other Assembly Secretaries. I have already referred to Rosemary Butler’s policy on Welsh in education. Peter Law has ensured that performance in delivering bilingual services is part of the new performance review management frameworks.

Mae’r iaith yn fater croestoriadol. Adlewyrchir hynny mewn penderfyniadau a wnaethpwyd gan Ysgrifenyddion Cynulliad eraill. Yr wyf eisoes wedi cyfeirio at bolisi Rosemary Butler ar y Gymraeg mewn addysg. Mae Peter Law wedi sicrhau bod perfformiad o ran cyflwyno gwasanaethau dwyieithog yn rhan o’r fframweithiau rheoli newydd ar gyfer adolygu perfformiad.

Jane Davidson The Deputy Presiding Officer spoken in English p. 63

Jane Davidson Y Dirprwy Lywydd siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 63

Is there any part of your speech that you can include in your wind-up? I have asked Members to be brief. Your contribution has been 15 minutes so far.

A oes unrhyw ran o’ch araith y gallwch ei chynnwys yn eich araith gloi? Yr wyf wedi gofyn i Aelodau fod yn gryno. Mae’ch cyfraniad wedi cymryd 15 munud hyd yma.

Tom Middlehurst spoken in English p. 63

Tom Middlehurst siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 63

I will deal with the amendments, which are the most important thing. First, amendment 8 by Christine Humphreys, who is anxious to give the Post-16 Education and Training Committee the task of considering the need for a new Welsh language act. I do not see the need for this and cannot accept the amendment. There is plenty of mileage in the present Welsh Language Act 1993 and scope for further initiative. There are calls from some in the language movement for new legislation. Most of the demands relate to the extension of the current Act to the private sector. I do not support those calls. I will deal with that more fully when I wind up.

Deliaf â’r gwelliannau, sef y peth pwysicaf. Yn gyntaf, gwelliant 8 gan Christine Humphreys, sydd yn awyddus i roi i’r Pwyllgor Addysg a Hyfforddiant Ôl-16 y dasg o ystyried yr angen am ddeddf iaith Gymraeg newydd. Ni welaf yr angen am hyn ac ni allaf dderbyn y gwelliant. Mae digon o ddarpariaeth yn y Ddeddf Iaith Gymraeg 1993 bresennol a lle i fentro ymhellach. Ceir galwadau gan rai yn y mudiad iaith am ddeddfwriaeth newydd. Mae’r rhan fwyaf o’r galwadau’n ymwneud ag estyn y Ddeddf bresennol i gynnwys y sector preifat. Ni chefnogaf y galwadau hynny. Deliaf â hynny’n llawnach wrth ddirwyn i ben.

Finally, on amendment 9 about the future of the London Welsh School. I understand that there is much sympathy for the school’s situation, which I share that sympathy. It is not an issue that has been created by actions of Government or the Assembly. Nonetheless, in the spirit of the amendment, while not accepting necessarily that the Department for Education and Employment can be heavily criticised for its situation, I want to see what can be done and I am willing to write to the Secretary of State for Education and Employment about the future of the school. I will leave it at that and seek to deal with the issues raised in debate.

Yn olaf, ar welliant 9 am ddyfodol Ysgol Gymraeg Llundain. Deallaf fod llawer o gydymdeimlad tuag at sefyllfa’r ysgol a rhannaf y cydymdeimlad hwnnw. Nid yw’n fater a grëwyd gan weithredoedd y Llywodraeth na’r Cynulliad. Serch hynny, yn ysbryd y gwelliant, er na dderbynnir o reidrwydd y gellir beirniadu’r Adran Addysg a Chyflogaeth yn hallt am ei safiad, yr wyf yn awyddus i weld beth y gellir ei wneud ac yn fodlon ysgrifennu at yr Ysgrifennydd Gwladol dros Addysg a Chyflogaeth ynglŷn â dyfodol yr ysgol. Fe’i gadawaf ar hynny a cheisiaf ddelio â’r materion a godir yn ystod y ddadl.

Jane Davidson The Deputy Presiding Officer spoken in English p. 63

Jane Davidson Y Dirprwy Lywydd siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 63

I will be calling the Secretary for Post-16 Education and Training again at 4.45 p.m. and therefore the debate has to take place between now and then.

Byddaf yn galw ar yr Ysgrifennydd Addysg a Hyfforddiant Ôl-16 eto am 4.45 p.m. ac felly mae’n rhaid i’r ddadl ddigwydd rhwng yn awr a’r amser hwnnw.

Ieuan Wyn Jones spoken in English p. 63

Ieuan Wyn Jones siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 63

Point of order. Is the Secretary for Post-16 Education and Training getting another quarter of an hour to wind up?

Pwynt o drefn. A gaiff yr Ysgrifennydd Addysg a Hyfforddiant Ôl-16 chwarter awr arall i ddirwyn i ben?

Jane Davidson The Deputy Presiding Officer spoken in English p. 63

Jane Davidson Y Dirprwy Lywydd siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 63

No, the Secretary for Post-16 Education and Training is getting around four minutes to wind up at the end of the session because we then have nine votes on the amendments and a vote on the motion, amended or as it stands. I need to protect the short debate and I am therefore allocating one minute per vote on the amendments, which I hope Members will find appropriate.

Na, caiff yr Ysgrifennydd Addysg a Hyfforddiant Ôl-16 ryw bedwar munud i ddirwyn i ben ar ddiwedd y sesiwn oherwydd wedyn mae gennym naw pleidlais ar y gwelliannau a phleidlais ar y cynnig, wedi’i ddiwygio neu fel y mae’n sefyll. Mae arnaf angen gwarchod y ddadl fer ac felly yr wyf yn clustnodi un munud i bob pleidlais, a fydd yn briodol gan bob Aelod, gobeithio.

Ieuan Wyn Jones spoken in English p. 64

Ieuan Wyn Jones siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 64

Further to that point of order, we have waited 12 months for this debate. It seems most unfair that the Secretary for Post-16 Education and Training has taken 20 minutes to open and we have less than half an hour for contributions from Members.

Ymhellach i’r pwynt hwnnw o drefn, yr ydym wedi aros 12 mis am y ddadl hon. Mae’n ymddangos yn annheg dros ben fod yr Ysgrifennydd Addysg a Hyfforddiant Ôl-16 wedi cymryd 20 munud i agor y ddadl a bod gennym lai na hanner awr ar gyfer cyfraniadau gan Aelodau.

Jane Davidson The Deputy Presiding Officer spoken in English p. 64

Jane Davidson Y Dirprwy Lywydd siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 64

I will reflect on that point of order and I will ask the Presiding Officer with a view to the next meeting. I remind Members that we are wasting debating time. I would like to call Cynog Dafis.

Mi feddyliaf am y pwynt hwnnw o drefn a gofynnaf i’r Llywydd gyda golwg ar y cyfarfod nesaf. Atgoffaf Aelodau ein bod yn gwastraffu amser dadlau. Hoffwn alw ar Cynog Dafis.

Nick Bourne spoken in English p. 64

Nick Bourne siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 64

Further to that point of order, your handling of the debate, Deputy Presiding Officer, will mean that half the debate will have been taken up by one Member.

Ymhellach i’r pwynt hwnnw o drefn, bydd y modd yr ydych wedi ymdrin â’r ddadl, Ddirprwy Lywydd, yn golygu y bydd hanner y ddadl wedi’i gymryd gan un Aelod.

Jane Davidson The Deputy Presiding Officer spoken in English p. 64

Jane Davidson Y Dirprwy Lywydd siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 64

You may put any concerns that you have in writing to the Office of the Presiding Officer and your concerns will be answered accordingly. I am calling Cynog Dafis because I want this debate to take place.

Cewch roi unrhyw bryderon sydd gennych mewn ysgrifen i Swyddfa’r Llywydd ac atebir eich pryderon yn sgîl hynny. Yr wyf yn galw ar Cynog Dafis gan fy mod eisiau i’r ddadl hon ddigwydd.

Cynog Dafis siaradwyd yn Gymraeg t. 64

Cynog Dafis spoken in Welsh p. 64

Cynigiaf welliant 1. Ychwaneger fel pwynt 1 newydd ac ailrifo’n unol â hynny:

I propose amendment 1. Add as new point 1 and renumber accordingly:

Cynog Dafis (parhad) siaradwyd yn Gymraeg t. 64

Cynog Dafis (continued) spoken in Welsh p. 64

Cynigiaf hefyd welliant 5 yn enw Elin Jones. Dilëer ‘ac’ ar ddiwedd pwynt 2. Ychwaneger fel pwynt newydd ac ailrifo’n unol â hynny:

I also propose amendment 5 in the name of Elin Jones. Delete ‘and’ at the end of point 2. Add as new point and renumber accordingly:

Cynog Dafis (continued) spoken in Welsh and English p. 65

Cynog Dafis (parhad) siaradwyd yn Gymraeg ac yn Saesneg t. 65

It occurred to me that in speaking for my party on Welsh language policy I might deliver my one and only speech in the Assembly in the English language. Thus I might make the point, I said to myself, that one of the worst things that can happen to a language is for it to be used solely or primarily to talk about itself or to be used tokenistically now and then for the opening remarks or the concluding flourish, not for the meat and technicalities. It also occurred to me that this was one debate in which I would not want to hurt anybody’s feelings. So I decided against my original intention. At this point I will give up the bit of tokenism and my attempt for a soundbite on Radio Wales or English-language TV and revert to the language I decided many years ago to make my first-choice language. For the Welsh language to survive, which means to grow vigorously, increasing numbers of people will need to make that choice.

yn Saesneg Fe’m trawodd y gallwn, wrth siarad ar ran fy mhlaid ar bolisi iaith Gymraeg, draddodi fy unig araith erioed yn y Cynulliad drwy’r iaith Saesneg. Drwy hynny, gallwn wneud y pwynt, meddwn wrthyf fy hun, mai un o’r pethau gwaethaf a all ddigwydd i iaith yw iddi gael ei defnyddio’n unig neu’n bennaf i siarad amdani hi’i hun neu ei defnyddio’n docenistaidd yn awr ac yn y man ar gyfer y sylwadau agoriadol neu’r tamaid blodeuog i gloi, ac nid ar gyfer y cig a’r pwyntiau technegol. Fe’m trawodd hefyd fod hon yn un ddadl lle na fyddwn am frifo teimladau neb. Felly penderfynais yn erbyn fy mwriad gwreiddiol. Ar y pwynt yma fe roddaf heibio fy nhipyn toceniaeth a’m hymgais i gael soundbite ar Radio Wales neu deledu Saesneg a throi’n ôl at yr iaith y penderfynais flynyddoedd lawer yn ôl ei gwneud yn iaith fy newis cyntaf. Er mwyn i’r Gymraeg fyw, sef tyfu’n egnïol, bydd angen i niferoedd cynyddol o bobl wneud y dewis hwnnw.

Croesawaf y ffaith ein bod o’r diwedd yn cael trafodaeth ar ein hiaith genedlaethol yn y Cynulliad Cenedlaethol. Gresynaf fod y ddadl hon yn cael ei chwtogi oherwydd gwastraffu amser a chan fod y ddadl flaenorol wedi mynd ymlaen yn rhy hir.

in Welsh I welcome the fact that we are at last having a debate on our national language in our National Assembly. I regret that this debate is being cut short because of time wasting and because the previous debate went on too long.

Er gwaethaf naws hunanlongyfarchiadol y pwynt cyntaf, croesawaf eiriad y cynnig, yn enwedig pwynt 2 sydd yn cyfeirio at y penderfyniad a basiwyd drwy fwyafrif mawr yn y Pwyllgor Addysg a Hyfforddiant Ôl-16 ar 16 Chwefror. Cyn troi at y penderfyniad hwnnw, dywedaf air am welliant 1 yn fy enw i sydd yn cyfeirio at eiriau yn y datganiad o weledigaeth ar ddechrau dogfen ‘Gwellcymru.com’. Mae’r geiriau hynny’n dangos bod meithrin manteision dwyieithrwydd yn un o brif amcanion cytunedig y Cynulliad ac felly mae’n rhaid inni fod o ddifrif.

in Welsh Despite the self-congratulatory air of the first point, I welcome the wording of the motion, especially point 2 which refers to the resolution passed by a large majority in the Post-16 Education and Training Committee on 16 February. Before turning to that resolution, I will say a word on amendment 1 in my name that refers to words in the mission statement at the beginning of the ‘Betterwales.com’ document. Those words show that fostering the benefits of bilingualism is one of the Assembly’s major agreed objectives and therefore we must take this seriously.

Mae hynny’n cael ei bwysleisio yng ngeiriad y penderfyniad y cyfeiriwyd ato ym mhwynt 2. Mae’r cynnig heddiw yn gofyn i ni gadarnhau ein bod yn cefnogi’n daer y nod o greu Cymru ddwyieithog fel nod cenedlaethol cyraeddadwy ac yn dymuno gweld gweithredu strategaeth effeithiol er mwyn sicrhau y gwireddir y nod hwn.

in Welsh That is emphasised in the wording of the resolution referred to in point 2. The motion today asks us to confirm that we fervently support the aim of creating a bilingual Wales as an achievable national aim and that we wish to see the implementation of an effective strategy in order to ensure that this aim is achieved.

Rhwng un peth a’r llall felly—ac yn enwedig ar ôl pasio’r cynnig hwn heddiw—bydd ymrwymiad cryf Llywodraeth Cymru, a’r Cynulliad cyfan, i greu dyfodol llewyrchus i’r iaith Gymraeg yn glir.

in Welsh Between one thing and another therefore—and especially after passing this motion today—the strong commitment of the Government of Wales, and of the whole Assembly, to create a bright future for the Welsh language will be clear.

Y cam nesaf yw deall beth mae hynny’n ei olygu, a gadewch i ni ddeall nad bach o gamp fydd cyrraedd y nod. Y term technegol i ddisgrifio’r gamp hon yw ‘gwrthdroi shifft iaith’, term a ddyfeisiwyd gan y disglair Joshua Fishman.

in Welsh The next step is to understand what that means, and let us understand that achieving that goal will be no mean feat. The technical term to describe this feat is ‘reversal of language shift’, a term devised by the brilliant Joshua Fishman.

Mae shifft iaith yn broses sydd yn gyfarwydd iawn yn y byd modern, sef symud o ddefnydd arferol o un iaith, drwy gyfnod o ddwyieithrwydd, i ddefnydd arferol o iaith arall. Mae’n broses sydd wedi digwydd dro ar ôl tro, proses sydd, ar ôl iddi ddechrau, yn magu ei momentwm ei hunan. Digwyddodd yng nghymoedd y De yn y ganrif ddiwethaf ac mae’n digwydd o hyd mewn rhai lleoedd. Mae’r sawl sydd yn credu bod dyfodol y Gymraeg yn ddiogel yn twyllo ei hunan; mae’r sawl sydd yn datgan hynny yn gyhoeddus yn twyllo pobl eraill.

in Welsh Language shift is a process that is very familiar in the modern world, of moving from the habitual use of one language, through a period of bilingualism, to the habitual use of another language. It is a process that has occurred time and time again, a process which, having started, creates its own momentum. It happened in the south Wales valleys in the last century and it is still happening in some places. Those who believe that the future of Welsh is safe are deceiving themselves; those who declare publicly that it is safe deceive other people.

Ar y llaw arall, y newyddion da yw bod momentwm y shifft wedi arafu, ac i ryw raddau yn cael ei wrthdroi. Mae’r iaith i’w chlywed erbyn hyn ar wefusau plant a phobl ifanc lle na chafodd ei chlywed ers dwy neu dair cenhedlaeth. Mae bywiogrwydd diwylliannol, sydd yn nodweddu’r byd Cymraeg ar lawer ystyr, yn ddigon o ryfeddod. Mae hynny’n golygu bod sail i adeiladu arni.

in Welsh On the other hand, the good news is that the momentum of the shift has decelerated, and to some degree is being reversed. The language can now be heard on the lips of children and young people in places where it has not been heard for two or three generations. The cultural vitality, which characterises the Welsh-speaking world in many senses, is a wonder in itself. That means that there is a foundation on which to build.

Mae geiriau’r cynnig, ‘creu Cymru ddwyieithog’, yn golygu adfywio’r Gymraeg. Mae hynny’n golygu sefydlu cylch rhinweddol lle bydd mwyfwy o bobl yn defnyddio’r Gymraeg fwyfwy o’r amser, a hynny’n creu mwyfwy o fomentwm o blaid yr iaith. Sut mae rhoi cylch rhinweddol felly ar waith?

in Welsh The words of the motion, ‘creating a bilingual Wales’, mean revitalising the Welsh language. That means setting up a virtuous circle where increasing numbers of people will use Welsh for an increasing amount of time, which will create an increasing momentum in favour of the language. How can such a virtuous circle be activated?

Cyfeiriaf at bedwar ffactor angenrheidiol. Yn gyntaf, mae’n rhaid bod cydsyniad cenedlaethol a chymdeithasol o blaid y fath anturiaeth. Mae’r dystiolaeth yn awgrymu bod y cydsyniad yn bod ar raddfa sylweddol yng Nghymru. Mae’n glir ei fod yn bod yn y Cynulliad a chroesawaf yn fawr eiriau Tom Middlehurst ar hyn.

in Welsh I will refer to four essential factors. First, there must be a national and social consensus in favour of such an exploit. The evidence suggests that such a consensus exists to a significant degree in Wales. It is clear that it exists in the Assembly and I greatly welcome Tom Middlehurst’s words on this.

Yn ail, mae angen ewyllys wleidyddol gadarn i roi’r polisïau yn eu lle, i roi grym i’r cydsyniad. Mae eto i’w weld a oes gan Lywodraeth Cymru ewyllys felly. Nid yw’r ffaith ein bod wedi gorfod aros tan heddiw am y ddadl gyntaf ar y pwnc yn argoeli’n dda. Eto, mae geiriad y cynnig heddiw a’r ffaith ein bod yn cael y ddadl o’r diwedd yn rhoi lle i ni obeithio.

in Welsh Second, there is a need for a strong political will to put the policies in place, to give strength to that consensus. It remains to be seen whether the Government of Wales has such a will. The fact that we have had to wait until today for the first debate on the subject does not augur well. Yet, the wording of the motion today and the fact that we are having this debate at last gives us grounds for hope.

Yn drydydd ac yn bedwerydd, mae’n rhaid cael strategaeth ac adnoddau. Mae penderfyniad y Pwyllgor, a ymgorfforir yn y cynnig heddiw, yn dweud bod

in Welsh Third and fourth, there must be a strategy and resources. The Committee’s descision, which is incorporated in today’s motion, says that

‘gwireddu tasg mor uchelgeisiol â chreu Cymru gyfan gwbl ddwyieithog yn golygu llunio strategaeth gydlynol yn seiliedig ar dargedau o’r math a ddisgrifiwyd yn nogfen y bwrdd’.

in Welsh ‘implementing such an ambitious task as creating a completely bilingual Wales means drawing up a coherent strategy based on targets such as those described in the board’s document’.

Cyfeirio y mae at ddogfen Bwrdd yr Iaith Gymraeg a gyflwynwyd i’r Pwyllgor Addysg a Hyfforddiant Ôl-16. Paratowyd y ddogfen honno i ymateb i gais gan y Pwyllgor. Penderfynodd y Pwyllgor ei chroesawu fel cyfraniad pwysig i’r dasg o lunio strategaeth er mwyn sicrhau adfywiad yr iaith Gymraeg a chreu Cymru ddwyieithog.

in Welsh This refers to the Welsh Language Board’s document that was presented to the Post-16 Education and Training Committee. That document was prepared in response to a request by the Committee. The Committee decided to welcome it as an important contribution to the task of drawing up a strategy to ensure the revival of the Welsh language and creation of a bilingual Wales.

Mae’n ddogfen eithriadol o bwysig; yr ymdrech gyntaf, mae’n debyg, i osod yn fanwl raglen o weithredu ar draws nifer o feysydd, gyda thargedau penodol ar gyfer y cyfnod hyd at 2005, a disgrifiad o ymhlygiadau ariannol hynny, rhyw £10 miliwn dros chwe blynedd. Ynddi mae pwyslais arbennig ar addysg fel sylfaen y cyfan oll, o addysg yn y blynyddoedd cynnar—

in Welsh It is an exceptionally important document; probably the first attempt to set out in detail a programme of activity across a number of areas, with specific targets for the period up to 2005, and a description of the financial implications of that, some £10 million over six years. In it there is a particular emphasis on education as the foundation for everything else, from early years education—

David Lloyd siaradwyd yn Gymraeg t. 67

David Lloyd spoken in Welsh p. 67

A ydych yn ymwybodol o sefyllfa drychinebus addysg drwy gyfrwng y Gymraeg yn Abertawe?

Are you aware of the parlous state of Welsh-medium education in Swansea?

Cynog Dafis siaradwyd yn Gymraeg t. 68

Cynog Dafis spoken in Welsh p. 68

Derbyniais lythyron ynglŷn â’r mater hwnnw. Credaf fod Abertawe yn enghraifft dda o’r angen i sicrhau bod corff canolog sydd yn meddu ar y grym, yr adnoddau a’r dannedd i ofalu bod strategaethau a chynlluniau iaith mewn addysg yn cael eu gweithredu heb gael eu gohirio’n barhaus.

I have received letters concerning this matter. I believe that Swansea is a good example of the need to ensure that there is a central body which has the power, the resources and the teeth to oversee that the language strategies and schemes in education are implemented without being perpetually postponed.

Mae pwyslais mawr ar addysg yn nogfen y bwrdd. Nid oes amser yn awr i fanylu, dim ond nodi y byddai rhoi’r strategaeth sydd yn nogfen y bwrdd ar waith yn creu sylfaen ar gyfer adfywiad a normaleiddio dwyieithrwydd nas gwelsom erioed o’r blaen. Pe bai Llywodraeth Cymru, a’r Cynulliad y tu cefn iddi, yn gweithredu’r strategaeth honno, byddai’n ennill parch, nid yn unig yng Nghymru ond ym mhobman lle mae dwyieithrwydd yn ddelfryd ac yn destun astudiaeth.

There is a great emphasis on education in the board’s document. There is no time now to go into detail, only to note that implementing the strategy in the board’s document would lay the foundation for a revitalisation and normalisation of bilingualism that we have never seen before. If the Government of Wales, with the Assembly’s backing, implemented this strategy, it would win respect, not only in Wales but in all places where bilingualism is an ideal and a subject of study.

Cefnogaf welliant Elin Jones yn naturiol. Fodd bynnag, rhaid peidio â defnyddio ei gwelliant fel rheswm i ohirio gweithredu. Mae digon yn y ddogfen strategol i roi cychwyn egnïol i’r broses y mae ‘Gwellcymru.com’ a’r cynnig hwn heddiw yn ymrwymo iddo. Mae’r strategaeth yn bodoli i raddau yn barod. Golyga hynny adnoddau ac mae’r trafodaethau ar y gyllideb yn rhoi cyfle i’w darparu. Deallaf fod lle i fod yn optimistaidd am yr adolygiad cynhwysfawr o wariant. Rhaid sicrhau bod yr iaith yn cael ei chyfran deg o adnoddau ychwanegol er mwyn rhoi grym i’r strategaeth.

I support Elin Jones’s amendment naturally. However, we must not use her amendment as a reason to delay action. There is enough in the document to give a vigorous impetus to the process that ‘Betterwales.com’ and today’s motion commits us to. The strategy to an extent exists already. That means resources and the discussions on the budget give the opportunity to provide them. I understand that there is room to be optimistic about the comprehensive spending review. We must ensure that the language has its fair share of extra resources to give the strategy power.

Mae gan y Cynulliad ymrwymiad i sicrhau bod y ddwy thema, cyfle cyfartal a datblygu cynaliadwy, yn faterion trawsbynciol llorweddol. Dylai hyrwyddo dwyieithrwydd berthyn i’r un categori. Nid rhywbeth ynysedig yw iaith. Mae’n treiddio i bob agwedd ar fywyd. Mae gennym gyfle heddiw i roi cychwyn ar anturiaeth bwysig a chyffrous dros ben. Gobeithiaf y byddwn fel Cynulliad, fel gwlad, cenedl ac fel pobl yn bachu ar y cyfle hwnnw. Nid oes unrhyw beth mwy cyffrous y gallem ei wneud.

The Assembly has a commitment to ensure that the two themes of equal opportunities and sustainable development are cross-cutting, horizontal issues. Promoting bilingualism should belong to the same category. Language is not an isolated matter. It penetrates all aspects of life. We have an opportunity today to start an important and exciting course of action. I hope that we as an Assembly, as a country, nation and a people will grab that opportunity. There is nothing more exciting that we could possibly do.

Alun Cairns siaradwyd yn Gymraeg t. 68

Alun Cairns spoken in Welsh p. 68

Cynigiaf welliant 2 yn enw Jonathan Morgan. Ar ddechrau’r cynnig, ychwaneger pwynt 1 newydd ac aildrefnu’r pwyntiau sydd yn dilyn:

I propose amendment 2 in the name of Jonathan Morgan. At beginning of motion, insert new point 1 and reorder subsequent points:

Alun Cairns (parhad) siaradwyd yn Gymraeg t. 69

Alun Cairns (continued) spoken in Welsh p. 69

Cynigiaf welliant 3 yn enw Jonathan Morgan. Ym mhwynt 1, dileer y cymal cyntaf.

I propose amendment 3 in the name of Jonathan Morgan. In point 1, delete the first clause.

Alun Cairns (parhad) siaradwyd yn Gymraeg t. 69

Alun Cairns (continued) spoken in Welsh p. 69

Cynigiaf welliant 4 yn enw Jonathan Morgan. Ym mhwynt 2, dileer ‘cadarnhau’ a rhoi ‘nodi’ yn ei le.

I propose amendment 4 in the name of Jonathan Morgan. In point 2, delete ‘endorses’ and replace with ‘notes’.

Alun Cairns (parhad) siaradwyd yn Gymraeg t. 69

Alun Cairns (continued) spoken in Welsh p. 69

Mae’n bleser cymryd rhan yn y ddadl hon heddiw am ddau reswm. Yn gyntaf, er mwyn cadarnhau safbwynt Plaid Geidwadol Cymru ar yr iaith a’i chefnogaeth iddi ac i ddatblygu’r ddadl ymhellach er mwyn sicrhau dyfodol llewyrchus i’r iaith. Yr ail reswm yw er mwyn adlewyrchu llwyddiant yr iaith dros yr 20 mlynedd diwethaf. Am ryw reswm, nid yw cyfraniad Plaid Geidwadol Cymru wedi cael ei gydnabod dros y blynyddoedd. Yn 1993, cawsom y Ddeddf Iaith a roes gefnogaeth swyddogol i’r iaith Gymraeg drwy sefydlu Bwrdd yr Iaith Gymraeg yn statudol. Diolchaf i Lywydd y Cynulliad am ei waith fel cyn-Gadeirydd Bwrdd yr Iaith Gymraeg yn ogystal â’i ragflaenydd, John Elfed Jones, a’r Cadeirydd presennol, Rhodri Williams.

It is a pleasure to participate in this debate for two reasons. First, to affirm the viewpoint of the Welsh Conservative Party on the Welsh language and our support for it and to develop the debate further to ensure a prosperous future for the language. The second reason is to reflect the success of the language over the last 20 years. For some reason, the Welsh Conservative Party’s contribution has not been acknowledged over the years. In 1993, we had the Welsh Language Act, which gave official support to the Welsh language through the statutory establishment of the Welsh Language Board. I thank the Assembly’s Presiding Officer for his work as the former Chair of the Welsh Language Board, as well as his predecessor, John Elfed Jones, and the present Chair, Rhodri Williams.

Cafwyd y Ddeddf Darlledu 1981 a roes S4C i’r Cymry yn lle pedwaredd sianel Saesneg fel gweddill y Deyrnas Unedig. Daeth sicrwydd i ddyfodol S4C yn Neddf Darlledu 1990 a sicrhaodd £75 miliwn ar gyfer y dyfodol mewn termau real. Ar ben hyn, cyflwynwyd yr iaith i’n hysgolion fel rhan annatod o’r cwricwlwm cenedlaethol.

We had the Broadcasting Act 1981 that gave S4C to the Welsh nation instead of a fourth English channel like the rest of the United Kingdom. The future of S4C was assured in the Broadcasting Act 1990, which provided £75 million for the future in real terms. Additionally, the Welsh language was introduced into our schools as an integral part of the national curriculum.

Wrth i ni drafod llwyddiant diweddar yr iaith, gobeithiaf y bydd pob Aelod yn fodlon derbyn y sylfaen a gafodd ei chreu dan y Llywodraeth Geidwadol. Diolchaf i’r Ysgrifennydd am nodi hynny yn gynharach. Nid yw cyfraniad y Blaid Geidwadol a’i chefnogaeth i’r iaith o dan unrhyw fath o amheuaeth.

As we discuss the recent successes of the language, I hope that every Member will accept the foundation that was laid by the Conservative Government. I thank the Secretary for stating that earlier. The Conservative Party’s contribution and support for the Welsh language is in no doubt.

Diolchaf hefyd yn swyddogol i’r Arglwydd Roberts am ei gyfraniad, pan oedd yn Weinidog yn y Swyddfa Gymreig, i’r Deddfau y soniais amdanynt eisoes. Dyna’r sylfaen sydd gennym. Ein dyletswydd yw hybu’r iaith ymhellach. Mae rhai yn galw am Ddeddf Iaith newydd a fyddai’n gorfodi cwmnïau sydd yn gweithio yng Nghymru i gyflwyno polisïau dwyieithog. Byddai unrhyw fath o orfodaeth yn arwain at ganlyniad negyddol yn y tymor hir ar ein polisïau a’n bwriad unol o weld yr iaith yn cael ei mabwysiadu gan fwyafrif pobl Cymru. Annog unigolion a chwmnïau yw’r unig ateb synhwyrol. Wrth gael eu hannog, mae llawer o gwmnïau yn profi lles marchnata drwy bolisi dwyieithog.

I also officially thank Lord Roberts for his contribution, when he was a Minister in the Welsh Office, to the Acts to which I have referred. That is our foundation. It is our responsibility to promote the language further. Some are calling for a new Welsh Language Act that would force businesses that work in Wales to introduce bilingual policies. Any kind of enforcement would lead to a negative result in the long term on our policies and our joint intention of seeing the language being adopted by the majority of Wales’s people. Encouraging companies and individuals is the only sensible answer. As they are encouraged, many companies experience the marketing benefits of a bilingual policy.

Yr wyf yn ymwybodol o sawl cwmni preifat sydd yn hysbysebu am reolwyr gan ddweud bod y gallu i siarad Cymraeg yn fanteisiol i gyflawni cyfrifoldebau’r swydd. Fodd bynnag, daeth y cwmnïau hynny i’r canlyniad hwnnw drwy ddewis ac am resymau busnes. Wrth gwrs, mae’n debygol na fyddai’r polisi hwnnw yn synhwyrol mewn rhai ardaloedd megis Sir Fynwy a Sir y Fflint. Fodd bynnag, penderfyniadau’r cwmnïau fyddai hynny. Mae rhai cyfundrefnau yn ceisio gwthio’r iaith ar bobl nad ydynt yn hollol barod i’w derbyn. Yr unig ffordd o newid agweddau pobl yw drwy anogaeth a thrwy ddeall parodrwydd neu ddiffyg parodrwydd i ddysgu ac i—

I am aware of several private companies that advertise for managers by saying that the ability to speak Welsh is advantageous to fulfil the responsibilities of that post. However, the companies came to that conclusion through choice and for business reasons. Of course, it is likely that that policy would not be sensible in some areas such as Monmouthshire and Flintshire. However, that would be the companies’ decision. Some systems are trying to force the language onto people who are not quite ready to accept it. The only way to change people’s attitudes is through encouragement and through understanding the willingness or lack of willingness to learn and to—

Gareth Jones siaradwyd yn Gymraeg t. 70

Gareth Jones spoken in Welsh p. 70

A gytunwch fod yr ysgolion y cyfeiriwch atynt, sydd yn cael trafferthion oherwydd diffyg adnoddau, wedi cael o leiaf bum mlynedd o rybudd i baratoi ar gyfer y diwrnod pan fyddai’r Gymraeg yn orfodol i rai dros 14 mlwydd oed?

Do you agree that the schools to which you refer, which have difficulties due to lack of resources, have had at least five years’ warning to prepare for the day when the Welsh language would be compulsory for those over 14-years-old?

Alun Cairns siaradwyd yn Gymraeg t. 70

Alun Cairns spoken in Welsh p. 70

Fel y gŵyr Gareth, mae defnydd o’r Gymraeg yn orfodol yn y sector cyhoeddus. Yn y sector preifat, mae’n bwysig inni gael ein gweld yn annog cwmnïau yn hytrach na’u gorfodi. Byddai hynny’n gwahardd busnesau o Gymru ac ni fyddai’n cyfrannu at godi cyfoeth y wlad. Bydd y farchnad rydd yn dangos manteision marchnata polisïau dwyieithog. Bydd agweddau unigolion yn newid wrth iddynt weld y cyfleoedd ychwanegol ar gyfer swyddi a chyfoeth. Yn ychwanegol at hynny, gan fod yr iaith yn rhan annatod o’r cwricwlwm cenedlaethol, ni fydd unrhyw unigolyn yn gadael yr ysgol heb unrhyw gefndir yn yr iaith. Mae’n bwysig rhoi cyfle i ddisgyblion a rhieni ddewis. Dim ond drwy annog pobl a chyfeirio arian at hynny y gallwn newid agweddau disgyblion a rhieni.

As Gareth knows, the use of the Welsh language is compulsory in the public sector. In the private sector, it is important that we are seen to be encouraging companies rather than compelling them. That would ban businesses from Wales and it would not contribute to increasing the country’s wealth. The free market will show the marketing advantages of bilingual policies. Individuals’ attitudes will change as they see the additional opportunities for jobs and wealth. In addition to that, as the language is an integral part of the national curriculum, no individual will leave school without any background in the language. It is important to give pupils and parents the opportunity to choose. It is only by encouraging people and directing money towards that that we can change parents’ and pupils’ attitudes.

Ieuan Wyn Jones a gododd—

Ieuan Wyn Jones rose—

Alun Cairns siaradwyd yn Gymraeg t. 71

Alun Cairns spoken in Welsh p. 71

Mae amser yn brin a gwn fod Dafydd Dafis a Glyn eisiau cyfrannu at y ddadl. Gan eu bod wedi gwneud yr ymdrech i ddysgu Cymraeg, hoffwn roi cymaint o gyfle â phosibl iddynt. Gallwn gymryd Dafydd Dafis fel enghraifft. Pe bai Dafydd wedi cael ei orfodi i ddysgu Cymraeg, naill ai yn yr ysgol yng nghyfnod allweddol 4 neu wedi cael ei ethol i’r Cynulliad, yr wyf yn siŵr, o’i adnabod, y byddai ei agwedd wedi bod yn gwbl wahanol.

Time is scarce and I know that David Davies and Glyn want to contribute to the debate. As they have attempted to learn Welsh, I would like to give them as much opportunity as possible. We can take David Davies as an example. If David had been forced to learn Welsh, either in school in key stage 4 or after being elected to the Assembly, I am sure that, knowing him, his attitude would have been completely different.

David Davies siaradwyd yn Gymraeg ac yn Saesneg t. 71

David Davies spoken in Welsh and English p. 71

Mae cael cyfle’n bwysig.

in Welsh Having an opportunity is important.

We will only have a positive attitude towards the Welsh language if we have a policy of choice and opportunity.

yn Saesneg Dim ond drwy gael polisi o ddewis a chyfle y sicrhawn agwedd gadarnhaol tuag at yr iaith Gymraeg.

Alun Cairns siaradwyd yn Gymraeg t. 71

Alun Cairns spoken in Welsh p. 71

Cytunaf.

I agree.

David Lloyd siaradwyd yn Gymraeg t. 71

David Lloyd spoken in Welsh p. 71

Mae dysgu Cymraeg yn sgil y gallwch ei dysgu fel unrhyw sgil arall. Mae David yn brawf o hynny. Mae’n sgil fel y sgil o ddefnyddio’r cyfrifiaduron hyn sydd o’n blaenau. Nid oes unrhyw un yn cwyno bod hynny’n cael ei wthio i lawr ein cyrn gyddfau, er nad yw’r dewis o beidio â’u defnyddio gennym. Mae’n sgil y gallwn ei dysgu, fel dysgu Cymraeg. Rhaid i Alun gofio hynny.

Learning Welsh is a skill that you can learn, like any other skill. David is proof of that. It is a skill like the skill of using these computers in front of us. No one complains that that is being stuffed down our throats, although we do not have the choice of not using them. It is a skill that we can learn, like learning Welsh. Alun must remember that.

Alun Cairns siaradwyd yn Gymraeg t. 71

Alun Cairns spoken in Welsh p. 71

Derbyniaf fod dysgu Cymraeg yn sgil. Fodd bynnag, rhaid inni gydnabod y pwysau sydd ar bobl yn y byd modern. Oherwydd nad oes unrhyw un wedi ei orfodi i fynychu’r dosbarth Cymraeg yn y Cynulliad, mae’r awyrgylch yn gwbl wahanol. Mae hyn yn rhoi cyfle inni gymeradwyo Dafydd, Glyn a Mike German ar eu hymdrechion i ddysgu’r iaith. Nid yw’n hawdd, yn enwedig o ystyried pwysau bywyd modern.

I accept that learning Welsh is a skill. However, we must acknowledge the pressures that people are under in the modern world. Because no-one has been forced to attend the Welsh class in the Assembly, the atmosphere is entirely different. This gives us an opportunity to applaud David, Glyn and Mike German on their attempts to learn the language. It is not easy, especially considering the pressures of modern life.

Gobeithiaf y bydd Aelodau’n cefnogi gwelliant 3 yn enw Jonathan Morgan. Bydd Plaid Geidwadol Cymru yn cefnogi pob gwelliant heblaw am welliant 8 yn enw Christine Humphreys. Nid oes unrhyw rinwedd mewn cael Deddf Iaith newydd. Byddai’n arwain at orfodi pobl a chwmnïau yn hytrach na’u hannog. Byddai hynny’n arwain at ymateb negyddol ac yn ailffurfio’r hen brotestiadau a dadleuon a niweidiodd yr iaith yn y gorffennol.

I hope that Members will support amendment 3 in the name of Jonathan Morgan. The Welsh Conservative Party will support all amendments apart from amendment 8 in the name of Christine Humphreys. There is no virtue in having a new Language Act. It would lead to forcing people and companies rather than encouraging them. That would lead to a negative response and would recreate the old protests and arguments that damaged the language in the past.

Christine Humphreys siaradwyd yn Gymraeg t. 72

Christine Humphreys spoken in Welsh p. 72

Cynigiaf welliant 6. Ychwaneger pwynt newydd ar ddiwedd y cynnig:

I propose amendment 6. Add a new point at the end of the motion:

Christine Humphreys (parhad) siaradwyd yn Gymraeg t. 72

Christine Humphreys (continued) spoken in Welsh p. 72

Cynigiaf welliant 7. Ychwaneger pwynt newydd ar ddiwedd y cynnig:

I propose amendment 7. Add a new point at the end of the motion:

Christine Humphreys (parhad) siaradwyd yn Gymraeg t. 72

Christine Humphreys (continued) spoken in Welsh p. 72

Cynigiaf welliant 8. Ychwaneger pwynt newydd ar ddiwedd y cynnig:

I propose amendment 8. Add a new point at the end of the motion:

Christine Humphreys (parhad) siaradwyd yn Gymraeg t. 72

Christine Humphreys (continued) spoken in Welsh p. 72

Cynigiaf welliant 9. Ychwaneger pwynt newydd ar ddiwedd y cynnig:

I propose amendment 9. Add a new point at the end of the motion:

Christine Humphreys (parhad) siaradwyd yn Gymraeg t. 72

Christine Humphreys (continued) spoken in Welsh p. 72

Byddaf yn gryno oherwydd bod fy llais yn llai swynol nag arfer ac oherwydd y gwn fod cynifer o Aelodau am gyfrannu at y ddadl, yn enwedig y rhai sydd wedi neu wrthi’n dysgu Cymraeg.

I will be brief as my voice is less sonorous than usual and because I know that so many Members want to contribute to the debate, especially those who have learnt or are learning Welsh.

Mae gwelliant 8 yn achosi pryder i rai Aelodau. Gofynnaf iddynt edrych yn fanwl ar ei eiriad. Nid yw’r Ddeddf bresennol yn rhoi statws swyddogol i’r Gymraeg, rhywbeth y ceisiodd Geraint Howells ac eraill ei ychwanegu at Ddeddf 1993 pan aeth drwy Dŷ’r Arglwyddi. Nid yw’r Ddeddf bresennol yn rhoi sylw i’r sector preifat nac i’r gwasanaethau hanfodol a breifateiddiwyd, fel trydan a dŵr. Ni ragwelodd llunwyr y Ddeddf y chwyldro technolegol, sydd yn golygu bod mwy a mwy o bobl yn gwneud eu busnes ar y ffôn neu drwy’r rhyngrwyd ac yn methu â defnyddio’r Gymraeg. Pwynt sylfaenol arall yw bod pobl yn colli’r cyfle i gael gwasanaeth yn y Gymraeg wrth i ganghennau lleol banciau gau ac i gwmnïau o’r tu allan i’r wlad ddarparu gwasanaethau yng Nghymru. Mae’r gwelliant hwn yn ceisio rhoi cyfle i’r Pwyllgor drafod hyn ac ystyried a ydym angen Deddf Iaith newydd ac a oes angen inni gynnwys pwyntiau penodol mewn Deddf o’r fath.

Amendment 8 causes concern to some Members. I ask them to carefully examine its wording. The existing Act does not give the Welsh language official status, something that Geraint Howells and others tried to add to the 1993 Act when it went through the House of Lords. The existing Act does not pay attention to the private sector or to the essential privatised services, such as electricity and water. Those who formed the Act did not foresee the technological revolution, which has led to more and more people carrying out their business over the telephone or through the internet and being unable to use the Welsh language. Another fundamental point is that people lose the opportunity to have service in Welsh as local branches of banks close and companies from outside the country provide services in Wales. This amendment tries to give the Committee an opportunity to discuss this and to consider whether we need a new Welsh Language Act and whether we need to include specific points in such an Act.

Cyn dod at welliannau pobl eraill, mae’n ddiddorol nodi geiriau ein Prif Ysgrifennydd—yr wyf yn siŵr nad yw eisiau eu clywed—yn Nhŷ’r Cyffredin ar 15 Gorffennaf 1993, pan oedd mesur iaith y Ceidwadwyr yn cael ei drafod.

Before coming to other people’s amendments, it is interesting to note the words of our First Secretary—I am sure that he does not want to hear them—in the House of Commons on 15 July 1993, when the Conservatives’ language bill was discussed.

‘We shall be abstaining tonight because we hope to have the opportunity before long to do the job properly. That will be done when we revisit the question of a Welsh language bill, when we are in Government.’

Rhodri, mae’r amser wedi dod. Mae Llafur yn Llywodraethu yn Llundain ac yng Nghaerdydd, felly dyma eich cyfle i ddechrau’r broses, os yw’r Cynulliad yn dymuno gwneud hynny.

Rhodri, the time has come. Labour is in Government in London and in Cardiff, so this is your chance to begin the process, if the Assembly wishes to do so.

Er fy mod yn cynnig gwelliant 9, bydd Mike German, os caiff y cyfle, yn siarad ar hynny. Cefnogwn welliant 1 Cynog Dafis, gwelliant 5 Elin Jones a gwelliant 3 yn enw Jonathan Morgan, ond nid gwelliannau 2 a 4 yn ei enw.

Although I am proposing amendment 9, Mike German, if he is given the opportunity, will speak on that. We support Cynog Dafis’s amendment 1, Elin Jones’s amendment 5 and amendment 3 in the name of Jonathan Morgan, but not amendments 2 and 4 in his name.

John Griffiths spoken in English p. 74

John Griffiths siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 74

I wonder how they cope in Papua New Guinea, where there is a population of about 4.5 million and around 740 languages. The difficulties surrounding language issues must feature largely in their deliberations. As far as Wales is concerned, I welcome the fact that the language has ceased to be a political football. Long may that continue to be the case in the Assembly. I will say a few words about the situation in what is considered to be an anglicised area of Wales, Newport, where I was born and brought up. I have found mixed feelings among local people in Newport on this issue, and the situation is not as many people would expect it to be.

Tybed sut y maent yn ymdopi yn Papua New Guinea, lle mae poblogaeth o ryw 4.5 miliwn a rhyw 740 o ieithoedd. Mae’n siŵr fod yr anawsterau ynghylch materion iaith yn cael lle blaenllaw yn eu trafodaethau. O ran Cymru, croesawaf y ffaith nad yw’r iaith mwyach yn bêl-droed wleidyddol. Hir y parhaed hynny yn y Cynulliad. Dywedaf air neu ddau am y sefyllfa yn yr hyn a ystyrir yn ardal seisnigedig Cymru, sef Casnewydd, lle y cefais fy ngeni a’m magu. Yr wyf wedi canfod teimladau cymysg ymhlith pobl leol yng Nghasnewydd ar y mater hwn, ac nid yw’r sefyllfa fel y disgwyliai llawer o bobl iddi fod.

There is negativity and suspicion toward the language but there is also a strong feeling of being deprived of rightful heritage and of not being taught Welsh at school. That has often come across to me. My friends and I have never felt anglicised when supporting any sporting team in the world playing against England. That is common throughout the Newport area and reflects its feeling of Welsh identity. In my own schooling, the only Welsh tuition that I received involved learning the anthem for some royal visit or another. As I recall, we were taught that Monmouthshire, as it then was, including Newport, was in a strange hybrid position of being neither in Wales nor in England. That is historical nonsense and an awful message to give to schoolchildren seeking some sense of belonging and identity.

Ceir teimladau negyddol a drwgdybiaeth tuag at yr iaith ond ceir hefyd deimlad cryf o fod wedi’n hamddifadu o’n hetifeddiaeth gyfiawn ac o fod heb gael dysgu Cymraeg yn yr ysgol. Mae hynny wedi’i drosglwyddo i mi yn aml. Ni theimlodd fy ffrindiau a mi yn seisnigedig erioed wrth gefnogi unrhyw dîm chwaraeon yn y byd sydd yn chwarae yn erbyn Lloegr. Mae hynny’n gyffredin drwy ardal Casnewydd i gyd ac mae’n adlewyrchu ei hymdeimlad o hunaniaeth Gymreig. Pan oeddwn i yn yr ysgol, yr unig hyfforddiant Cymraeg a gefais oedd wrth ddysgu’r anthem ar gyfer rhyw ymweliad brenhinol neu’i gilydd. Fel y cofiaf, fe’n dysgwyd fod Sir Fynwy, fel yr oedd bryd hynny, gan gynnwys Casnewydd, mewn sefyllfa ddeuryw od o beidio â pherthyn i Gymru na Lloegr. Dwli hanesyddol yw hynny a neges ofnadwy i’w rhoi i blant ysgol sydd yn chwilio am ryw ymdeimlad o berthyn a hunaniaeth.

Cultural identity is important to a sense of belonging, a sense of a place in the world and is a base from which to build. The Assembly has already had a deep impact and can continue to encourage a stronger, more cohesive Welsh identity across Wales, which would benefit Newport. The Welsh language in English and Welsh-medium schools is an important part of that. I support wholeheartedly the process of teaching Welsh in schools.

Mae hunaniaeth ddiwylliannol yn bwysig i ymdeimlad o berthyn, ymdeimlad o le yn y byd, ac mae’n sylfaen i adeiladu arni. Mae’r Cynulliad eisoes wedi cael effaith fawr a gall barhau i hybu hunaniaeth gryfach, fwy cydlynol ledled Cymru, a fyddai’n llesol i Gasnewydd. Mae’r iaith Gymraeg mewn ysgolion Cymraeg a Saesneg yn rhan bwysig o hynny. Cefnogaf yn frwd y broses o ddysgu Cymraeg mewn ysgolion.

I realise that time is short and therefore I have omitted about two-thirds of my contribution. Like many others in the Assembly, I am learning to speak Welsh and I am determined to continue with that process and make many contributions in Welsh in the future.

Sylweddolaf fod amser yn brin ac felly yr wyf wedi hepgor dau draean o’m cyfraniad. Fel llawer o rai eraill yn y Cynulliad, yr wyf yn dysgu siarad Cymraeg ac yr wyf yn benderfynol o barhau gyda’r broses honno a gwneud llawer o gyfraniadau yn y Gymraeg yn y dyfodol.

Michael German siaradwyd yn Gymraeg t. 75

Michael German spoken in Welsh p. 75

Fel un sydd yn dysgu’r Gymraeg, hoffwn siarad am welliant 4 yn enw Jonathan Morgan. Mae’r gwelliant hwn yn cynnig dileu’r cyfeiriad at gyflwyno’r Gymraeg yn ysgolion cyfrwng Saesneg Cymru. Mae’n drueni bod y Ceidwadwyr yn credu bod dysgu un iaith yn cadw rhywun rhag mynd i’r afael â ieithoedd eraill. Mae fel pe baent yn credu mai dim ond ychydig o le sydd ym mhennau pobl ac y byddai iaith newydd yn gwthio allan unrhyw ieithoedd sydd yno’n barod. Dyna yw fy mhwynt i heddiw; mae tystiolaeth yn dangos ei bod yn haws i bobl ddwyieithog ddysgu trydedd a phedwaredd iaith. Yn anffodus, ar hyn o bryd, mae’r nifer o ddisgyblion sydd yn dewis astudio ieithoedd modern tramor yn gostwng yn ysgolion Cymru a Lloegr. Ni fyddai ceisio gwaredu’r Gymraeg fel pwnc gorfodol yn gwella’r sefyllfa honno. Mae’r Democratiaid Rhyddfrydol yn credu mewn Cymru ddwyieithog fel cam at Gymru amlieithog. Dyna paham y byddwn yn pleidleisio yn erbyn y gwelliant negyddol hwn.

As a Welsh learner, I would like to speak about amendment 4 in the name of Jonathan Morgan. This amendment suggests deleting the reference to introducing the Welsh language in English-medium schools in Wales. It is a shame that the Conservatives believe that learning one language prevents people from tackling other languages. It is as if they believe that there is only limited space in people’s heads and that learning a new language would push out any languages already there. That is my point today; evidence suggests that bilingual people find it easier to learn a third and fourth language. Unfortunately, at present, the number of pupils choosing to study modern foreign languages is decreasing in schools in England and Wales. Trying to get rid of the Welsh language as a compulsory subject would not help that situation. The Liberal Democrats believe in a bilingual Wales as a step towards a multilingual Wales. That is why we will vote against this negative amendment.

Hoffwn sôn yn fyr am hanes Ysgol Gymraeg Llundain. Cafodd ei sefydlu yn 1955, a hi yw’r unig ysgol Gymraeg ei chyfrwng y tu allan i Gymru. Fodd bynnag, ar ddiwedd y tymor hwn, bydd rhaid i’r ysgol adael ei safle presennol yng nghapel Cymraeg Willesden Green gan fod yr adeilad wedi ei werthu. Nid oes gan yr ysgol ddigon o arian i dalu am safle newydd ac nid yw’n derbyn unrhyw arian oddi wrth yr awdurdod addysg lleol. Mae ei goroesiad yn dibynnu ar roddion rhieni a’r gymuned Gymraeg yn Llundain a Chymru.

I will briefly refer to the history of the London Welsh School. It was established in 1955 and is the only Welsh-medium school outside Wales. However, at the end of this term, the school will have to leave its present location in the Willesden Green Welsh chapel because the building has been sold. The school does not have enough money for a new site and does not receive any money from the local education authority. Its survival depends on donations by the parents and the Welsh community in London and in Wales.

Yn ddiweddar, gwnaeth yr ysgol gais am gymorth oddi wrth y Llywodraeth, ond, er mwyn derbyn y cymorth hwnnw, byddai’n rhaid iddi ddysgu Saesneg fel rhan o gwricwlwm cenedlaethol Lloegr. Ar hyn o bryd mae’n dilyn cwricwlwm cenedlaethol Cymru. Byddai dilyn cwricwlwm Lloegr yn tanseilio nod yr ysgol, sef annog defnydd o’r iaith Gymraeg ymhlith y gymuned Gymraeg yn Llundain. Fel arfer, teg yw mynnu bod ysgolion yn Lloegr yn dilyn cwricwlwm Lloegr. Fodd bynnag, fel yr unig ysgol Gymraeg yn Llundain, mae hon yn haeddu triniaeth arbennig.

Recently, the school applied for assistance from the Government, but, in order to receive that assistance, it would have to teach English as part of the national curriculum in England. At present it follows the national curriculum of Wales. Following the national curriculum of England would undermine the school’s aim, which is to encourage use of the Welsh language among the Welsh community in London. It is usually fair to insist that schools in England follow the English curriculum. However, as the only Welsh school in London, this one deserves special treatment.

Yr wyf yn eich annog i gefnogi gwelliant 9 yn enw Christine Humphreys.

I urge you to support amendment 9 in the name of Christine Humphreys.

David Davies siaradwyd yn Gymraeg ac yn Saesneg t. 76

David Davies spoken in Welsh and English p. 76

Mae’r Blaid Geidwadol yn cefnogi’r iaith Gymraeg bob amser. Pwysig yw cofio nad yw llawer o bobl, yn enwedig mewn ardaloedd fel Sir Fynwy, yn hapus gyda dysgu’r Gymraeg fel pwnc gorfodol yn yr ysgolion i blant dros 14 mlwydd oed. Pwysig yw canolbwyntio ar ddysgu’r iaith i blant sydd eisiau dysgu’r iaith.

in Welsh The Conservative Party supports the Welsh language at all times. It is important to remember that many people, especially in areas such as Monmouthshire, are not happy with the teaching of Welsh as a compulsory subject in schools to children over the age of 14. It is important to concentrate on teaching the language to children who wish to learn it.

You will never create goodwill towards the Welsh language through compulsory policies. It will only be created through a policy of opportunity and choice.

yn Saesneg Ni wnewch fyth greu ewyllys da tuag at yr iaith Gymraeg drwy bolisïau gorfodol. Dim ond drwy bolisi o gyfle a dewis y’i crëir.

Cynnig Trefniadol

Procedural Motion

Ieuan Wyn Jones siaradwyd yn Gymraeg t. 76

Ieuan Wyn Jones spoken in Welsh p. 76

Cynigiaf fod

I propose that

Ieuan Wyn Jones (parhad) siaradwyd yn Gymraeg t. 76

Ieuan Wyn Jones (continued) spoken in Welsh p. 76

Gan fod nifer o bobl eisiau cyfrannu at y ddadl hon, credaf fod consensws yn y Siambr y dylid sicrhau bod y ddadl yn gallu parhau. A ydych yn derbyn y cynnig trefniadol hwn er mwyn sicrhau bod y ddadl yn parhau am hanner awr arall, fel bod yr holl bleidleisiau wedi eu bwrw erbyn 5.30 p.m.?

Due to the fact that many people wish to contribute to this debate, I believe that there is a consensus in the Chamber to ensure that the debate is allowed to continue. Do you accept this procedural motion, in order to ensure that the debate continues for another half an hour, so that all the votes have been cast by 5.30 p.m.?

Rod Richards siaradwyd yn Gymraeg t. 76

Rod Richards spoken in Welsh p. 76

Cefnogaf gais Ieuan Wyn Jones.

I support Ieuan Wyn Jones’s request.

Jane Davidson The Deputy Presiding Officer spoken in English p. 76

Jane Davidson Y Dirprwy Lywydd siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 76

Our Standing Orders dictate that a procedural motion takes precedence over all other business. Ieuan Wyn Jones has spoken in favour of the procedural motion to allow an extra half an hour for the debate. That half an hour would not be added today. The extra half an hour or time will be allocated to the debate. Is any Member opposed to allocating extra time for this debate? I am allowed to take one Member in opposition to the debate before putting the proposition to the vote. Nick Bourne, are you speaking in opposition to the proposal?

Mae’n Rheolau Sefydlog yn mynnu bod cynnig trefniadol yn cael blaenoriaeth dros bob busnes arall. Mae Ieuan Wyn Jones wedi siarad o blaid y cynnig trefniadol i ganiatáu hanner awr arall ar gyfer y ddadl. Ni châi’r hanner awr hwnnw ei ychwanegu heddiw. Caiff yr hanner awr neu’r amser ychwanegol ei ddyrannu i’r ddadl. A oes unrhyw Aelod yn gwrthwynebu clustnodi amser ychwanegol ar gyfer y ddadl hon? Yr wyf yn cael cymryd un Aelod sydd yn gwrthwynebu’r ddadl cyn rhoi’r cynnig i bleidlais. Nick Bourne, ydych chi’n siarad yn erbyn y cynnig?

Nick Bourne spoken in English p. 77

Nick Bourne siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 77

I am speaking in opposition to your proposal, and in support of Ieuan’s that it should be added today.

Yr wyf yn siarad yn erbyn eich cynnig, ac o blaid cynnig Ieuan y dylid ychwanegu’r amser heddiw.

Jane Davidson The Deputy Presiding Officer spoken in English p. 77

Jane Davidson Y Dirprwy Lywydd siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 77

The procedural motions, as I have said, should take precedence over all other business. One Member is allowed to speak in favour of the motion, and one to speak against it. The proposition will then be put to the vote. The proposition is for the continuation, or the adjournment, of debate after the period of time allocated to any individual item of business has expired, in accordance with Standing Order No. 6.18. A Member may propose that the debate on a motion be allowed to continue for a specified period on that day or adjourned to another day.

Dylai cynigion trefniadol, fel y dywedais, gael blaenoriaeth dros bob busnes arall. Caniateir i un Aelod siarad o blaid y cynnig, ac un i siarad yn ei erbyn. Wedyn rhoddir y cynnig i bleidlais. Y cynnig yw y dylid parhau, neu ohirio, y ddadl ar ôl diwedd y cyfnod a neilltuwyd ar gyfer unrhyw gynnig unigol, yn unol â Rheol Sefydlog Rhif 6.18. Caiff Aelod gynnig y dylid caniatáu i’r ddadl ar gynnig barhau am gyfnod penodol y diwrnod hwnnw neu ei gohirio tan ddiwrnod arall.

Ieuan Wyn Jones siaradwyd yn Gymraeg t. 77

Ieuan Wyn Jones spoken in Welsh p. 77

Hoffwn ei gwneud yn glir fy mod yn gofyn am hanner awr ychwanegol heddiw. Gofynnaf ichi dderbyn hynny.

I would like to clarify that I am asking for an additional half-hour today. I am asking you to accept that.

Jane Davidson The Deputy Presiding Officer spoken in English p. 77

Jane Davidson Y Dirprwy Lywydd siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 77

I would like to make it clear, before I accept this proposal, that Standing Order No. 6.18 goes on to state that it should only be accepted if the Presiding Officer is satisfied that to do so would not be an abuse of the Assembly’s procedures or cause excessive delay. The Presiding Officer has always made it clear that debates will not continue beyond 5.30 p.m. It would be impossible, due to the short debate, for this debate to continue today. I am prepared to accept the proposal that the debate is adjourned to continue at another time. Does anybody want to speak against that proposition?

Hoffwn ei gwneud yn glir, cyn imi dderbyn y cynnig hwn, fod Rheol Sefydlog Rhif 6.18 yn mynd yn ei flaen i ddweud na ddylid ond ei dderbyn os yw’r Llywydd yn fodlon na fyddai gwneud hynny’n camddefnyddio gweithdrefnau’r Cynulliad nac yn achosi gormod o oedi. Mae’r Llywydd bob amser wedi dweud yn glir na fydd dadleuon yn mynd ymlaen wedi 5.30 p.m. Byddai’n amhosibl, oherwydd y ddadl fer, i’r ddadl hon barhau heddiw. Yr wyf yn barod i dderbyn y cynnig y dylid gohirio’r ddadl i’w pharhau rywbryd eto. A oes ar unrhyw un eisiau siarad yn erbyn y cynnig hwnnw?

Andrew Davies The Business Secretary spoken in English p. 77

Andrew Davies Y Trefnydd siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 77

The Welsh language is an important issue. However, the debates on the Objective 1 single programming document and the new Assembly building were equally important. We have not had sufficient time to consider many other important issues. I am concerned that one issue is being singled out. [ASSEMBLY MEMBERS: ‘We have done this before.’]

Mae’r iaith Gymraeg yn fater pwysig. Fodd bynnag, yr oedd y dadleuon ar Amcan 1, y ddogfen rhaglennu sengl ac adeilad newydd y Cynulliad yr un mor bwysig. Ni chawsom ddigon o amser i ystyried nifer o faterion eraill. Yr wyf yn bryderus fod un mater yn cael sylw arbennig. [AELODAU’R CYNULLIAD: ‘Yr ydym wedi gwneud hyn o’r blaen.’]

Jane Davidson The Deputy Presiding Officer spoken in English p. 78

Jane Davidson Y Dirprwy Lywydd siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 78

Order. Will Members speak one at time?

Trefn. A wnaiff Aelodau siarad un ar y tro?

Andrew Davies spoken in English p. 78

Andrew Davies siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 78

The Presiding Officer has made it clear on more than one occasion that he is not prepared, as we have heard from the Deputy Presiding Officer today, to extend the Plenary session beyond 5.30 p.m., therefore we are wasting our time. I will consider tabling more time for this debate. However, some of the amendments refer to the Subject Committees, therefore the issue will return to Plenary for a final discussion. If it is adjourned today, I will have to consider when there will be sufficient time in Plenary to reschedule the debate and whether it will take place before the summer constituency weeks or in the autumn. I cannot give a commitment at present as to when it will be rescheduled, in view of business that has already been agreed by the Assembly in the three-week business statement. Members must be aware of that.

Mae’r Llywydd wedi datgan yn glir ar fwy nag un achlysur nad ydyw’n barod, fel y clywsom gan y Dirprwy Lywydd heddiw, i ymestyn y Cyfarfod Llawn y tu hwnt i 5.30 p.m., felly yr ydym yn gwastraffu’n hamser. Ystyriaf neilltuo mwy o amser i’r ddadl hon. Fodd bynnag, mae rhai o’r gwelliannau’n cyfeirio at y Pwyllgorau Pwnc, felly daw’r mater yn ôl i’r Cyfarfod Llawn i’w drafod yn derfynol. Os caiff ei ohirio heddiw, bydd yn rhaid imi ystyried pryd y bydd digon o amser mewn Cyfarfod Llawn i ailgynnal y ddadl a pha un ai y bydd yn digwydd cyn wythnosau etholaeth yr haf neu yn yr hydref. Ni allaf roi ymrwymiad ar hyn o bryd ynghylch pa bryd y caiff ei aildrefnu, yn wyneb busnes a gytunwyd eisoes gan y Cynulliad yn y datganiad busnes tair wythnos. Rhaid i Aelodau fod yn ymwybodol o hynny.

Michael German spoken in English p. 78

Michael German siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 78

I would like clarification of Standing Order No. 6.18. My understanding is that this debate, under your ruling, would be adjourned. You would not take the vote and the matter would be adjourned to another day to be determined. The votes on the nine amendments would take place on that day.

Hoffwn eglurhad o Reol Sefydlog Rhif 6.18. Fy nealltwriaeth i yw y byddai’r ddadl hon, dan eich rheolaeth chi, yn cael ei gohirio. Ni fyddech yn cymryd y bleidlais a châi’r mater ei ohirio tan ddiwrnod arall i’w benderfynu. Byddai’r pleidleisio ar y naw gwelliant yn digwydd ar y diwrnod hwnnw.

Jane Davidson The Deputy Presiding Officer spoken in English p. 78

Jane Davidson Y Dirprwy Lywydd siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 78

That is correct.

Mae hynny’n gywir.

Ieuan Wyn Jones siaradwyd yn Gymraeg t. 78

Ieuan Wyn Jones spoken in Welsh p. 78

Deallaf bwynt Andrew. Os gall roi addewid inni y daw yn ôl yn fuan gyda datganiad ynglŷn â phryd y gallwn gynnal gweddill y ddadl, derbyniaf eich dyfarniad.

I understand Andrew’s point. If he can promise us that he will come back soon with a statement on when we can hold the rest of the debate, I will accept your ruling.

Glyn Davies spoken in English p. 78

Glyn Davies siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 78

I ask for clarification. Ieuan Wyn Jones asked that the debate be continued for half an hour. If we continue it, it should be for longer than that.

Gofynnaf am eglurhad. Gofynnodd Ieuan Wyn Jones am i’r ddadl gael ei pharhau am hanner awr. Os ydym am ei pharhau, dylai fod am fwy o amser na hynny.

Jane Davidson The Deputy Presiding Officer spoken in English p. 78

Jane Davidson Y Dirprwy Lywydd siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 78

That is helpful. I am happy to accept Ieuan Wyn Jones’s proposal and to adjourn the debate to allow more time for proper discussion. I strongly support the Business Secretary putting it on the agenda as soon as possible and giving it more time. I am not prepared to accept the proposal to extend the time today. Discussion about extending Assembly time must be a Standing Orders issue. I am not prepared to extend time today, because I consider that that would be an abuse of the Assembly’s procedures.

Mae hynny o gymorth. Yr wyf yn fodlon derbyn cynnig Ieuan Wyn Jones a gohirio’r ddadl er mwyn caniatáu mwy o amser i drafod yn iawn. Cefnogaf yn gryf y dylai’r Trefnydd ei rhoi ar yr agenda cyn gynted ag y bo modd a rhoi mwy o amser iddi. Nid wyf yn barod i dderbyn y cynnig i ymestyn yr amser heddiw. Rhaid i drafodaeth ynghylch ymestyn amser y Cynulliad fod yn fater ynghylch y Rheolau Sefydlog. Nid wyf yn barod i ymestyn yr amser heddiw, oherwydd credaf y byddai hynny’n gamddefnydd o weithdrefnau’r Cynulliad.

In the interests of proper procedure, I ask if 10 Members support the proposal that the Business Secretary finds more time for this debate on another day.

Er mwyn dilyn y weithdrefn yn iawn, gofynnaf a oes 10 Aelod yn cefnogi’r cynnig ar i’r Trefnydd ganfod mwy o amser ar gyfer y ddadl hon ar ddiwrnod arall.

I see that they do.

Gwelaf fod.

We must now vote on whether all Members are content for the Business Secretary to find time as soon as possible to further debate these important Welsh language issues on another day.

Rhaid inni bleidleisio yn awr ar a yw’r Aelodau i gyd yn fodlon i’r Trefnydd ganfod amser cyn gynted ag y bo modd i drafod ymhellach y materion pwysig hyn ynglŷn â’r iaith Gymraeg ar ddiwrnod arall.

Cynnig trefniadol Ieuan Wyn Jones t. 79

Procedural motion Ieuan Wyn Jones p. 79

DerbyniwydAdopted Drwy ddangos dwyloShow of hands

Derbyniwyd y cynnig.

Motion adopted.

Jane Davidson The Deputy Presiding Officer not named in the Record spoken in English p. 79

Jane Davidson Y Dirprwy Lywydd heb ei enwi yn y Cofnod siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 79

Therefore, we will not continue the debate today. I have a list of those who have indicated that they wish to speak in the debate and it will be kept in the Office of the Presiding Officer.

Felly, ni barhawn y ddadl heddiw. Mae gennyf restr o’r rheini sydd wedi nodi eu bod yn awyddus i siarad yn y ddadl, ac fe’i cedwir yn Swyddfa’r Llywydd.

Dadl Fer: Awdurdod Iechyd Bro Taf

Short Debate: Bro Taf Health Authority

Jenny Randerson spoken in English p. 79

Jenny Randerson siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 79

I am pleased to be able to speak on the short debate. For a few months, I thought my luck had run out.

Yr wyf yn falch o gael siarad ar y ddadl fer. Am rai misoedd, yr oeddwn yn meddwl fod fy lwc wedi dod i ben.

I turn to the serious issue that I chose as the topic of my short debate. This is an opportunity for an in-depth look at why there are so many problems in the NHS in Wales and Bro Taf is an acute example of them. I do not intend to apportion blame this afternoon, but to highlight problems and their causes. I chose the title ‘Bro Taf Health Authority’ because the health authority is the paymaster of the trust that delivers the health care and the Assembly is the paymaster of the health authorities.

Trof at y mater difrifol a ddewisais yn destun i’m dadl fer. Mae hwn yn gyfle i edrych o ddifrif ar pam y ceir cymaint o broblemau yn yr NHS yng Nghymru, ac mae Bro Taf yn enghraifft eithafol ohonynt. Nid wyf yn bwriadu beio neb y prynhawn yma, ond, yn hytrach, amlygu problemau a’u hachosion. Dewisais y pennawd ‘Awdurdod Iechyd Bro Taf’ am mai’r awdurdod iechyd yw tâl-feistr yr ymddiriedolaeth sydd yn darparu’r gofal iechyd a’r Cynulliad yw tâl-feistr yr awdurdodau iechyd.

I hope that it will become obvious during the debate that the problems are long-standing and intractable. Throwing money at the problems would help, but only in the longer term when more beds are provided and more staff are trained. The bonanza from the budget will take a long time to take effect and reverse the trend. Above all, prolonged and sustained investment is needed in new buildings and training new staff.

Gobeithiaf y daw’n amlwg yn ystod y ddadl fod y problemau’n hirsefydlog ac yn anodd eu trin. Byddai taflu arian at y problemau o gymorth, ond dim ond yn y tymor hwy pan fydd mwy o welyau wedi’u darparu a mwy o staff wedi’u hyfforddi. Bydd yr arian mawr o’r gyllideb yn cymryd amser maith i ddangos effaith a gwrthdroi’r duedd. Yn anad dim, mae angen buddsoddiad hir a chyson mewn adeiladau newydd a hyfforddi staff newydd.

What I say will inevitably be something of a series of snapshots. One cannot possibly give a comprehensive rundown of the health problems in Bro Taf in quarter of an hour. The information I am presenting has been drawn from a combination of published statistics, minutes of meetings and a picture given to me by people who work in the Bro Taf area and are patients there. As an Assembly Member representing Cardiff Central, my examples will largely relate to Cardiff. I hope that Christine Chapman, Geraint Davies and David Melding, who have indicated that they wish to speak, will take the opportunity to add examples from their own constituencies. By choosing this topic I am not suggesting that there has been mismanagement in Bro Taf Health Authority. I have not come across that accusation in my research. The problem is that the authority is financially overstretched. For example, the Cardiff and Vale NHS Trust has a long-standing deficit of, I think, about £3.5 million this year.

Mae’n anochel mai cyfres o luniau sydyn i raddau fydd yr hyn a ddywedaf. Ni allai neb roi dadansoddiad cynhwysfawr o’r problemau iechyd ym Mro Taf mewn chwarter awr. Mae’r wybodaeth a gyflwynaf wedi’i thynnu o gyfuniad o ystadegau cyhoeddedig, cofnodion cyfarfodydd a darlun a roddwyd imi gan bobl sydd yn gweithio yn ardal Bro Taf ac sydd yn gleifion yno. Fel Aelod Cynulliad yn cynrychioli Canol Caerdydd, bydd a wnelo fy enghreifftiau i raddau helaeth â Chaerdydd. Gobeithiaf y gwnaiff Christine Chapman, Glyn Davies a David Melding, sydd wedi nodi eu bod yn dymuno siarad, gymryd y cyfle i ychwanegu enghreifftiau o’u hetholaethau eu hunain. Wrth ddewis y pwnc hwn nid wyf yn awgrymu y bu camreoli yn Awdurdod Iechyd Bro Taf. Ni ddeuthum ar draws y cyhuddiad hwnnw yn fy ymchwil. Y broblem yw fod yr awdurdod wedi’i orymestyn yn ariannol. Er enghraifft, mae gan Ymddiriedolaeth NHS Caerdydd a’r Fro ddiffyg hirsefydlog o, fe dybiaf, tua £3.5 miliwn eleni.

Bro Taf has the longest waiting lists in Wales. The latest figures, released today, show that there are 18,964 people on its inpatient waiting list, 25 per cent of whom have been waiting more than a year for treatment. Some 35.5 per cent of outpatients wait more than six months for treatment. The figures for Wales as a whole once again show a rise in the numbers of people waiting for treatment. In Bro Taf, the inpatient waiting list has risen by 46 cases and the number of inpatients waiting for over a year has risen by 125 cases. The waiting list for outpatients increased by 1,341 cases—a 3 per cent increase. There was a staggering 6.5 per cent increase—860 cases—in outpatients waiting more than six months for treatment.

Gan Bro Taf y mae’r rhestri aros hwyaf yng Nghymru. Mae’r ffigurau diweddaraf, a gyhoeddwyd heddiw, yn dangos bod 18,964 o bobl ar ei restr aros i gleifion mewnol, 25 y cant ohonynt yn aros ers dros flwyddyn am driniaeth. Bydd tua 35.5 y cant o gleifion allanol yn aros dros chwe mis am driniaeth. Mae’r ffigurau ar gyfer Cymru gyfan unwaith eto’n dangos cynnydd yn y nifer o bobl sydd yn aros am driniaeth. Ym Mro Taf, bu cynnydd o 46 achos yn rhestr aros y cleifion mewnol a chynnydd o 125 achos yn nifer y cleifion mewnol sydd yn aros ers dros flwyddyn. Cynyddodd y rhestr aros i gleifion allanol o 1,341 o achosion—cynnydd o 3 y cant. Bu cynnydd anhygoel o 6.5 y cant—860 o achosion—yn nifer y cleifion allanol sydd yn aros ers dros chwe mis am driniaeth.

One in 10 people over the age of 20 living in the Bro Taf Health Authority area is on a NHS waiting list. A significantly greater percentage of the population is on the outpatient waiting list in the Bro Taf area than in other areas in Wales. Even more significantly, proportionally more Bro Taf patients wait longer for treatment than patients elsewhere in Wales. It is important to point out here that the difference between Bro Taf and the rest of Wales has arisen in the last few years. There is also the waiting list for the waiting list; in Bro Taf that list is atrocious.

Mae un o bob 10 o drigolion ardal Awdurdod Iechyd Bro Taf sydd dros 20 mlwydd oed ar un o restrau aros yr NHS. Mae canran arwyddocaol fwy o’r boblogaeth ar y rhestr aros i gleifion allanol yn ardal Bro Taf nag mewn unrhyw ardal arall yng Nghymru. Hyd yn oed yn fwy arwyddocaol, mae mwy o gleifion Bro Taf ar gyfartaledd yn aros yn hwy am driniaeth na chleifion mewn rhannau eraill o Gymru. Mae’n bwysig nodi yma fod y gwahaniaeth rhwng Bro Taf a gweddill Cymru wedi cynyddu yn yr ychydig flynyddoedd diwethaf. Ceir hefyd y rhestr aros am y rhestr aros; ym Mro Taf mae’r rhestr honno’n warthus.

So the picture we have for Wales—and remember that Wales is worse than England—is a particularly acute one in Bro Taf. Why? When we consider Wales as a whole, one answer is that, pro rata, the population per specialist is much less in England than in Wales. The worst waiting list in Bro Taf is for orthopaedic services. That accounts for about half of the long waits for treatment in Bro Taf. In the Cardiff and Vale NHS Trust, this service is concentrated in Llandough Hospital. There are over 5,500 patients waiting for their first orthopaedic appointment, which often takes about two years to achieve. In addition, there are a further 4,000 patients who have had their first appointment and are waiting for their operation.

Felly mae’r darlun sydd gennym yng Nghymru—a chofier fod Cymru’n waeth na Lloegr—yn un arbennig o wael ym Mro Taf. Pam? Pan ystyriwn Gymru gyfan, un ateb yw fod y boblogaeth am bob arbenigwr, pro rata, yn llawer llai yn Lloegr nag yng Nghymru. Am wasanaethau orthopedig y mae’r rhestr aros waethaf ym Mro Taf. Mae honno’n cyfrif am tua hanner yr arosiadau hir am driniaeth ym Mro Taf. Yn Ymddiriedolaeth NHS Caerdydd a’r Fro, mae’r gwasanaeth hwn wedi’i ganoli yn Ysbyty Llandochau. Mae dros 5,500 o gleifion yn aros am eu hapwyntiad orthopedig cyntaf, sydd yn aml yn cymryd tua dwy flynedd i’w gael. Yn ogystal, mae tua 4,000 o gleifion ar ben hynny sydd wedi cael eu hapwyntiad cyntaf ac sydd yn aros am eu llawdriniaeth.

That is the longest waiting list in Wales and one of the worst in the UK. The average wait is four years and can be as long as seven. These are largely elderly patients, though not necessarily so, waiting in considerable pain, sometimes in agony. One young man, aged 22, has already been waiting five years and has been told that the earliest date for his operation will be the end of 2002. The pain and misery that these waiting times represent cannot be overstated. I have spoken in this Chamber before of a constituent who was told that she had to wait at least two years for the replacement of her previous hip replacement, which had collapsed because the cement used was faulty. She went on holiday abroad, the hip collapsed totally and she had to be brought home by air ambulance. Even then, she had to lie in hospital for six weeks before having her operation.

Dyna’r rhestr aros hwyaf yng Nghymru ac un o’r gwaethaf yn y DU. Pedair blynedd yw’r amser aros ar gyfartaledd, a gall fod cyhyd â saith mlynedd. Cleifion oedrannus yw llawer o’r rhain, er nad pob un, yn aros mewn cryn boen, ac mewn poen arteithiol weithiau. Mae un dyn ifanc 22 oed wedi bod yn aros am bum mlynedd yn barod ac wedi cael gwybod mai’r dyddiad cynharaf ar gyfer ei lawdriniaeth fydd diwedd 2002. Ni ellir gorbwysleisio’r boen a’r dioddefaint a gynrychiolir gan yr amserau aros hyn. Yr wyf wedi siarad yn y Siambr hon o’r blaen am wraig yn fy etholaeth a gafodd wybod y byddai’n rhaid iddi aros o leiaf ddwy flynedd am glun newydd yn lle’r un a gawsai o’r blaen, a oedd wedi torri oherwydd fod y sment a ddefnyddiwyd yn ddiffygiol. Aeth ar wyliau tramor, torrodd y glun yn llwyr a bu’n rhaid ei chludo adref mewn ambiwlans awyr. Hyd yn oed wedyn, bu raid iddi orwedd yn yr ysbyty am chwe wythnos cyn cael ei llawdriniaeth.

Why is it so bad? When the Prince of Wales Hospital in Rhydlafar closed, it was agreed that at least the equivalent number of beds would be provided at Llandough hospital. However, only one ward was opened, compared to the previous two. Eighteen months passed before the second ward was opened. By then, the list had built up. Even now, of the 57 orthopaedic beds provided, only 29 are protected for orthopaedic use only. When there is a medical emergency and there are no spare medical beds, an orthopaedic bed is used. For example, two weeks ago, 17 of the 57 orthopaedic beds were occupied by non-orthopaedic patients. Orthopaedic patients suffer because there is an insufficient number of medical beds. In the same week, five operations were cancelled. That happened in the middle of summer; what on earth is the situation during the winter crisis? In this case, there is a knock-on effect. The problem lies with the shortage of medical beds. Appointing new staff will not solve that problem. Ironically, last year, Cardiff and District Community NHS Trust fulfilled its contract with Bro Taf Health Authority and completed the maximum number of orthopaedic operations that it was contracted to provide. Yet, the waiting list continued to grow month by month. It is being funded for too few operations.

Pam mae’r sefyllfa mor ddrwg? Pan gaewyd Ysbyty Tywysog Cymru yn Rhydlafar, cytunwyd y darperid o leiaf yr un nifer o welyau yn ysbyty Llandochau. Fodd bynnag, dim ond un ward a agorwyd, o gymharu â’r ddwy flaenorol. Aeth deunaw mis heibio cyn agor yr ail ward. Erbyn hynny, yr oedd y rhestr wedi tyfu. Hyd yn oed yn awr, o’r 57 gwely orthopedig sydd ar gael, dim ond 29 sydd wedi’u cadw ar gyfer defnydd orthopedig yn unig. Pan geir argyfwng meddygol ac nad oes dim gwelyau meddygol sbâr ar gael, defnyddir gwely orthopedig. Er enghraifft, bythefnos yn ôl, yr oedd 17 o’r 57 gwely orthopedig wedi’u cymryd gan gleifion ar wahân i gleifion orthopedig. Mae cleifion orthopedig yn dioddef am nad oes digon o welyau meddygol. Yn yr un wythnos, canslwyd pum llawdriniaeth. Digwyddodd hynny yng nghanol yr haf; beth ar y ddaear yw’r sefyllfa yn ystod argyfwng y gaeaf? Yn yr achos hwn, ceir effaith gynyddol. Prinder gwelyau meddygol yw’r broblem. Ni fydd penodi staff newydd yn datrys y broblem honno. Yn eironig, y llynedd, cyflawnodd Ymddiriedolaeth NHS Cymuned Caerdydd a’r Cylch ei chontract gydag Awdurdod Iechyd Bro Taf a chwblhaodd yr uchafswm o lawdriniaethau orthopedig yr oedd dan gontract i’w darparu. Eto, dal i dyfu fis ar ôl mis a wnaeth y rhestr aros. Mae’n cael ei hariannu i ddarparu rhy ychydig o lawdriniaethau.

Perhaps the saddest statistic is that 24 children in the Bro Taf area have been waiting over two years for operations of all sorts. Many of those are for kidney-related problems. If treated early, those operations are relatively routine and straightforward. However, if patients have to wait as long as two years, they can develop serious surgical problems, which necessitate dialysis and even transplants. We are creating people who will become dependent on the NHS throughout their lives because they had to wait too long.

Efallai mai’r ystadegyn tristaf yw bod 24 o blant yn ardal Bro Taf yn aros ers dros ddwy flynedd am lawdriniaethau o bob math. Mae llawer o’r rhain ar gyfer problemau gyda’r arennau. O gael triniaeth gynnar, mae’r llawdriniaethau hynny’n gymharol syml ac arferol. Fodd bynnag, os oes raid i gleifion aros gyhyd â dwy flynedd, gallant ddatblygu problemau llawfeddygol difrifol, nes bod angen dialysis a hyd yn oed drawsblaniadau. Yr ydym yn creu pobl a fydd yn ddibynnol ar yr NHS drwy gydol eu hoes oherwydd iddynt orfod aros yn rhy hir.

The paediatric unit at the University Hospital of Wales is inadequate. I agree with the Conservatives on that, and I am sorry that only one of them is here to hear me. We need a children’s hospital in Wales. The University Hospital of Wales is the only dedicated paediatric facility in Wales. However, there is no dedicated paediatric operating theatre, there are not enough high dependency beds, the layout of the unit makes it difficult for nurses to supervise children properly, the roof leaks and it is freezing cold in winter. It would cost about £3.5 million to replace that unit. I urge you, Jane, to find that money. It is scandalous that it must be raised through voluntary donations. The poor facilities have a knock-on effect on staffing. A paediatric cardiac surgeon left last year to work in England because of the poor conditions. As a result of the staff shortage, children and their families have had to travel to England for serious operations.

Mae’r uned bediatrig yn Ysbyty Prifysgol Cymru’n annigonol. Cytunaf gyda’r Ceidwadwyr ar hynny, ac mae’n ddrwg gennyf mai dim ond un ohonynt sydd yma i’m clywed. Mae arnom angen ysbyty plant yng Nghymru. Ysbyty Prifysgol Cymru yw’r unig gyfleuster penodol ar gyfer pediatreg yng Nghymru. Fodd bynnag, nid oes yno theatr lawdriniaeth bediatrig arbennig, nid oes digon o welyau dibyniaeth uchel, mae cynllun yr uned yn ei gwneud hi’n anodd i nyrsys oruchwylio plant yn iawn, mae’r to’n gollwng ac mae’n ofnadwy o oer yn y gaeaf. Byddai’n costio tua £3.5 miliwn i gael uned newydd yn lle honno. Erfyniaf arnoch, Jane, i ganfod yr arian hwnnw. Mae’n sgandal fod yn rhaid ei godi drwy gyfraniadau gwirfoddol. Caiff y cyfleusterau gwael effaith yn eu tro ar staffio. Gadawodd llawfeddyg cardiaidd pediatrig y llynedd i fynd i weithio i Loegr oherwydd yr amodau gwael. O ganlyniad i’r prinder staff, mae plant a’u teuluoedd wedi gorfod teithio i Loegr am lawdriniaethau difrifol.

The total budget for cardiology has not taken account of the growth—which we could call the natural growth—in cardiac problems. The University Hospital of Wales needs an additional surgeon, theatre staff and eight more beds. However, there is another problem. There is no space for those extra beds. Therefore, money alone will not solve that problem. The Cardiff and District area has lost 990 beds in the 10 years from 1988 to 1998. As a result, there are 2.32 beds per 1,000 of the population in this area, compared with 2.66 beds per 1,000 in the rest of Wales. The reduction has been too great. We need spare beds for emergencies. If more beds cannot be provided, bed-blocking must be tackled.

Nid yw cyfanswm y gyllideb ar gyfer cardioleg wedi cymryd i ystyriaeth y twf—y gellid ei alw’n dwf naturiol—mewn problemau cardiaidd. Mae Ysbyty Prifysgol Cymru angen llawfeddyg ychwanegol, staff theatr ac wyth gwely arall. Fodd bynnag, mae problem arall. Nid oes lle i’r gwelyau ychwanegol hynny. Felly, ni wnaiff arian ar ei ben ei hun ddatrys y broblem honno. Mae ardal Caerdydd a’r Cylch wedi colli 990 o welyau yn y 10 mlynedd o 1988 i 1998. O ganlyniad, mae 2.32 o welyau i bob 1,000 o’r boblogaeth yn yr ardal hon, o’i gymharu â 2.66 o welyau i bob 1,000 yng ngweddill Cymru. Bu’r lleihad yn ormod. Mae arnom angen gwelyau sbâr ar gyfer argyfyngau. Os na ellir darparu mwy o welyau, rhaid mynd i’r afael â phroblem blocio gwelyau.

There is an appalling waiting list for wheelchairs supplied by the clinic in Rookwood Hospital. There are over 4,000 people on the waiting list and some people have been housebound for two years. One of my constituents, who is 92 years old, is number 2,000 on that waiting list. That is farcical and tragic. Ambulance response times, which are the second worst in Wales, cannot be blamed on Bro Taf directly. However, queuing at hospitals because of insufficient staff to deal with patients as they arrive leads to further delays.

Mae rhestr aros ofnadwy am gadeiriau olwyn a ddarperir gan y clinig yn Ysbyty Coed y Brain. Mae dros 4,000 o bobl ar y rhestr aros ac mae rhai pobl yn gaeth i’w tai ers dwy flynedd. Mae un o f’etholwyr, sydd yn 92 mlwydd oed, yn rhif 2,000 ar y rhestr aros honno. Mae hynny’n wirion bost ac yn drasig. Ni ellir beio Bro Taf yn uniongyrchol am amserau ymateb ambiwlans, sydd yr ail waethaf yng Nghymru. Fodd bynnag, mae ciwio mewn ysbytai oherwydd nad oes digon o staff i ddelio â chleifion wrth iddynt gyrraedd yn arwain at ragor o oedi.

Finally, 27 per cent of nursing vacancies in Wales are at the University Hospital of Wales and 35 per cent of NHS complaints in Wales are about treatment undertaken under the auspices of Bro Taf Health Authority. This is a catalogue of shame. The NHS has been under-funded for many years and we hoped that Labour would reverse the situation. Unfortunately, there has been a dramatic increase in waiting lists. You can liken the NHS to a giant oil tanker. It takes a long time to turn it around and change direction. You can pour money in but it will take several years before you can build the new hospitals, train the new staff and make a real difference. Bro Taf Health Authority is a suitable case for treatment, but please do not put it on a waiting list.

Yn olaf, mae 27 y cant o’r swyddi nyrsio gwag yng Nghymru yn Ysbyty Prifysgol Cymru ac mae 35 y cant o gwynion am yr NHS yng Nghymru yn gwynion am driniaeth a wnaethpwyd dan nawdd Awdurdod Iechyd Bro Taf. Dyma gatalog o gywilydd. Tan-ariannwyd yr NHS ers blynyddoedd lawer ac yr oeddem wedi gobeithio y byddai Llafur yn gwrthdroi’r sefyllfa. Yn anffodus, bu cynnydd dramatig mewn rhestrau aros. Gallwch gyffelybu’r NHS i dancer olew mawr. Mae’n cymryd amser hir i’w droi a newid ei gyfeiriad. Gallwch arllwys arian i mewn ond cymer flynyddoedd lawer cyn y gallwch adeiladu’r ysbytai newydd, hyfforddi’r staff newydd a gwneud gwahaniaeth go iawn. Mae Awdurdod Iechyd Bro Taf yn achos addas ar gyfer triniaeth, ond da chi peidiwch â’i roi ar restr aros.

The complex problems that I have outlined mean that people living in the Bro Taf area—which includes many of the poorest communities with some of the greatest social and health problems in Wales—face waiting lists and a lack of facilities. We, in the Assembly, should be ashamed of this.

Mae’r problemau cymhleth a amlinellais yn golygu fod pobl sydd yn byw yn ardal Bro Taf—sydd yn cynnwys llawer o’r cymunedau tlotaf gyda rhai o’r problemau iechyd a chymdeithasol mwyaf yng Nghymru—yn wynebu rhestrau aros a diffyg cyfleusterau. Dylai fod gennym ni, yn y Cynulliad, gywilydd o hyn.

Christine Chapman spoken in English p. 84

Christine Chapman siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 84

I want to make a point on the massive health inequalities faced, not only by those in the Bro Taf area, but also between areas in the authority. The North Glamorgan NHS Trust area, as Huw Lewis and myself have stated on many occasions, has some of the highest levels of health inequalities in Europe. Yet, Simon Jones, the Chair of Bro Taf Health Authority, says that the number of complaints he receives from individuals in that area, are among the lowest. That is the point. The people who live in areas with the greatest levels of inequalities, the poorest levels of service delivery and the least range of services, are traditionally those who do not speak up. That is highlighted by Dr Julian Tudor Hart’s ‘inverse care law’.

Hoffwn wneud pwynt ynghylch yr anghysonderau iechyd anferth a wynebir nid yn unig gan bobl yn ardal Bro Taf, ond hefyd rhwng ardaloedd o fewn yr awdurdod. Mae gan ardal Ymddiriedolaeth NHS Gogledd Morgannwg, fel y mae Huw Lewis a mi wedi dweud lawer gwaith, rai o’r lefelau uchaf o anghysonderau iechyd yn Ewrop. Eto, dywed Simon Jones, Cadeirydd Awdurdod Iechyd Bro Taf, fod y nifer o gwynion y mae’n eu cael gan unigolion yn yr ardal honno ymhlith yr isaf. Dyna’r pwynt. Y bobl sydd yn byw yn yr ardaloedd gyda’r lefelau mwyaf o annhegwch, y lefelau gwaelaf o gyflwyniad gwasanaeth a’r amrediad lleiaf o wasanaethau yw’r rheini sydd yn draddodiadol yn fwyaf cyndyn o godi llais. Amlygir hynny gan ‘ddeddf gofal gwrthdro’ Dr Julian Tudor Hart.

People in my constituency do not always speak up to demand change and better health. The reasons for this are numerous, but it is clear that the situation must change. We must change people’s aspirations in the poorer parts of Bro Taf, from being resigned to poor health and poorer services to aspiring to better health and demanding services. We need to give these people a voice. If they will not speak up themselves, those of us who represent them must do so in any way possible. The health establishments must also be responsive and innovative in the way that they listen and take on board people’s concerns.

Ni fydd pobl yn fy etholaeth i bob amser yn codi’u llais i fynnu newid a gwell iechyd. Mae’r rhesymau dros hyn yn niferus, ond mae’n amlwg fod yn rhaid i bethau newid. Rhaid inni newid dyheadau pobl yn rhannau tlotaf Bro Taf, o fod yn barod i dderbyn iechyd gwael a gwasanaethau gwaelach i fod yn dyheu am well iechyd a mynnu gwasanaethau. Mae angen rhoi llais i’r bobl hyn. Os na wnânt siarad drostynt eu hunain, rhaid i’r rheini ohonom sydd yn eu cynrychioli wneud hynny mewn unrhyw fodd posibl. Rhaid i’r sefydliadau iechyd hefyd fod yn ymatebol ac yn arloesol yn y modd y gwrandawant ac y rhoddant sylw i bryderon pobl.

Since last May, I have highlighted the inequalities in mental healthcare in Cynon Valley. Last week, I raised the issue of diabetes care and, more recently, I heard about the inequalities in multiple sclerosis care in the North Glamorgan NHS Trust area. In Cynon Valley, there is also the issue of GP provision. In the future, there will be a shortage of GPs, unless there are swift interventions.

Ers mis Mai diwethaf, yr wyf wedi tynnu sylw at yr anghydraddoldebau mewn gofal iechyd meddwl yng Nghwm Cynon. Yr wythnos diwethaf, codais gwestiwn gofal clefyd siwgr ac, yn fwy diweddar, clywais am yr anghyfartalrwydd mewn gofal sglerosis ymledol yn ardal Ymddiriedolaeth NHS Gogledd Morgannwg. Yng Nghwm Cynon, mae problem gyda’r ddarpariaeth meddygon teulu hefyd. Yn y dyfodol, bydd prinder meddygon teulu, oni wneir rhywbeth yn fuan.

I will try to be positive, because we all want to do the best for healthcare in Wales, and in areas like Bro Taf, where there are many inequalities. As a result of the increased health budget, and the fact that the Assembly is making a difference, Bro Taf has started to tackle the health inequalities, for example, in the North Glamorgan NHS Trust area. However, there is still a long way to go. I am pleased that Jane Hutt will review the health formula. That will go a long way.

Ceisiaf fod yn gadarnhaol, oherwydd bod pob un ohonom eisiau gwneud y gorau dros ofal iechyd yng Nghymru, ac mewn ardaloedd fel Bro Taf, lle mae sawl anghydraddoldeb. O ganlyniad i’r cynnydd yn y gyllideb iechyd, a’r ffaith fod y Cynulliad yn gwneud gwahaniaeth, mae Bro Taf wedi dechrau mynd i’r afael â’r anghydraddoldebau iechyd, er enghraifft, yn ardal Ymddiriedolaeth NHS Gogledd Morgannwg. Fodd bynnag, mae ffordd bell i fynd o hyd. Yr wyf yn falch y bydd Jane Hutt yn adolygu’r fformwla iechyd. Bydd hynny’n gam mawr.

If we want a well Wales and not a sick Wales, we need to encourage our residents to have high aspirations. They must demand health and frontline services that are up to standard. They must demand basic services in their own areas. They should be confident that the Assembly will continue to tackle the root causes of ill health.

Os ydym eisiau Cymru iach ac nid Cymru sâl, mae angen inni annog ein trigolion i anelu’n uchel. Rhaid iddynt fynnu gwasanaethau iechyd a rheng flaen sydd yn cyrraedd y safon. Rhaid iddynt fynnu gwasanaethau sylfaenol yn eu hardaloedd eu hunain. Dylent fod yn hyderus y bydd y Cynulliad yn parhau i fynd i’r afael ag achosion gwaelodol iechyd gwael.

Geraint Davies spoken in English p. 85

Geraint Davies siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 85

Bro Taf faces major problems and challenges as the biggest health authority in Wales, not least in addressing the health divide. It has not received a fair distribution of resources for many years. It looks forward to the review of the formula for allocating resources so that it can receive a fairer distribution, particularly in the North Glamorgan NHS Trust area, as Christine said.

Mae Bro Taf yn wynebu problemau a sialensiau mawr fel yr awdurdod iechyd mwyaf yng Nghymru, a chau’r bwlch iechyd yw un o’r rhai mwyaf. Ni dderbyniodd ddosbarthiad adnoddau teg ers blynyddoedd. Mae’n edrych ymlaen at adolygu’r fformwla ar gyfer dyrannu adnoddau fel y gall gael dosbarthiad tecach, yn enwedig yn ardal Ymddiriedolaeth NHS Gogledd Morgannwg, fel y dywedodd Christine.

In the Rhondda, we await news of the replacement hospital in Llwynypia. That has been promised for over 20 years and we hope that we will not have to wait much longer.

Yn y Rhondda yr ydym yn disgwyl am newyddion am yr ysbyty newydd yn Llwynypia. Addawyd hwnnw ers dros 20 mlynedd a gobeithiwn na fydd yn rhaid inni aros llawer mwy.

I emphasise that primary care will address the health divide most of all. Bro Taf faces great difficulties in establishing primary care facilities in its deprived areas. That is due to the low commercial rental values. It is a catch 22 situation. It is a deprived area with low commercial rental values, and, therefore, it cannot have facilities to alleviate the deprivation. In England, there is a facility to increase rental values, which makes these schemes viable. We need that scheme in Wales as soon as possible. I hope that the administration can bring that scheme forward quickly because there are terrible conditions in some Valley surgeries. It is about time that they were renovated.

Pwysleisiaf mai gofal sylfaenol a wnaiff fwyaf i fynd i’r afael â’r bwlch iechyd. Mae Bro Taf yn wynebu anawsterau mawr i sefydlu cyfleusterau gofal sylfaenol yn ei ardaloedd difreintiedig. Y gwerthoedd rhent masnachol isel sydd i gyfrif am hynny. Mae’n sefyllfa catch 22. Mae’n ardal ddifreintiedig gyda gwerthoedd rhent masnachol isel, ac felly, ni all gael cyfleusterau i liniaru’r difreintiad. Yn Lloegr, mae cyfleuster i gynyddu gwerthoedd rhent, sydd yn gwneud y cynlluniau hyn yn hyfyw. Yr ydym angen y cynllun hwnnw yng Nghymru cyn gynted ag y bo modd. Gobeithiaf y gall y weinyddiaeth ddod â’r cynllun hwnnw ymlaen yn fuan oherwydd mae amodau ofnadwy mewn rhai meddygfeydd yn y Cymoedd. Mae’n hen bryd eu hadnewyddu.

David Melding spoken in English p. 86

David Melding siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 86

Deputy Presiding Officer, Jenny made some strong and telling points this afternoon. I thank her for bringing these matters to the attention of the Assembly. I want to remark briefly on the challenge of reorganising mental health services, which is being engaged with some level of success by Bro Taf Health Authority. This area has long been ignored. I am pleased to see this issue being tackled with some vigour. Politicians of all parties have to be responsible and accept that this will mean the closure of old, inappropriate hospitals and units, many of which go back to the early years of the last century. We must commit resources for new hospitals and safe environments that aid recovery. We should aim for an age when acute mental health beds are one of the best facilities in the NHS. When patients recover and can be moved into the community to be close to their families, we need to ensure that the appropriate community psychiatric teams are in place. I am pleased that the health authority has plans for this. We must be vigilant that the resources will follow very soon.

Ddirprwy Lywydd, gwnaeth Jenny bwyntiau cryf a pherthnasol y prynhawn yma. Diolchaf iddi am ddod â’r materion hyn i sylw’r Cynulliad. Hoffwn sôn yn fyr am yr her o ad-drefnu gwasanaethau iechyd meddwl, y mae Awdurdod Iechyd Bro Taf yn ei wneud gyda rhyw radd o lwyddiant. Anwybyddwyd y maes hwn ers tro byd. Yr wyf yn falch o weld yr ymdrinnir â’r mater hwn â chryn egni. Rhaid i wleidyddion o bob plaid fod yn gyfrifol a derbyn y bydd hyn yn golygu cau hen ysbytai ac unedau amhriodol, llawer ohonynt yn dyddio’n ôl i flynyddoedd cynnar y ganrif ddiwethaf. Rhaid inni ymrwymo adnoddau ar gyfer ysbytai newydd ac amgylcheddau diogel sydd yn helpu adferiad. Dylem anelu at oes pan fydd gwelyau iechyd meddwl aciwt yn un o’r cyfleusterau gorau yn yr NHS. Pan fydd cleifion yn gwella ac y gellir eu symud i’r gymuned er mwyn bod yn agos at eu teuluoedd, mae angen inni sicrhau bod y timau seiciatryddol cymunedol priodol yn eu lle. Yr wyf yn falch fod gan yr awdurdod iechyd gynlluniau ar gyfer hyn. Rhaid inni fod yn wyliadwrus i sicrhau y daw’r adnoddau’n fuan iawn.

Alun Pugh spoken in English p. 87

Alun Pugh siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 87

As Deputy Secretary for Health and Social Services, I respond on behalf of the Government of Wales. I congratulate Jenny on winning the draw for the short debate again. If I had her luck, I might consider buying a National Lottery ticket.

Fel Dirprwy Ysgrifennydd Iechyd a Gwasanaethau Cymdeithasol, ymatebaf ar ran Llywodraeth Cymru. Llongyfarchaf Jenny ar ennill y tocyn i gyflwyno’r ddadl fer eto. Petai ei lwc hi gennyf fi, efallai yr ystyriwn brynu tocyn Loteri Cenedlaethol.

Bro Taf Health Authority covers a quarter of the population of Wales. This, and the fact that it covers the capital and the Assembly's home, means that its activities are rarely out of the public eye. The staff are hard-working professionals who deserve our support as well as additional resources. Loose talk along the lines of a catalogue of shame destroys staff morale. I ask you to withdraw that remark and the accompanying press release.

Mae Awdurdod Iechyd Bro Taf yn gyfrifol am iechyd chwarter poblogaeth Cymru. Mae hyn, a’r ffaith ei fod yn weithredol yn y brifddinas a chartref y Cynulliad, yn golygu nad yw ei weithgareddau allan o lygad y cyhoedd yn aml. Mae’r staff yn bobl broffesiynol weithgar sydd yn haeddu’n cefnogaeth yn ogystal ag adnoddau ychwanegol. Mae siarad llac am bethau fel catalog o gywilydd yn distrywio ysbryd y staff. Gofynnaf ichi dynnu’r sylw hwnnw’n ôl ynghyd â’r datganiad i’r wasg a gyhoeddwyd gydag ef.

Like the other health authorities, Bro Taf has produced a health improvement plan. It analyses health and health service issues and sets out the way ahead. The document demonstrates the diversity of the health authority area. Tables comparing the various areas within Bro Taf show marked differences on several important fronts including age structure, teenage conception rates, death rates, causes of death, hospitalisation and prescribing rates.

Fel yr awdurdodau iechyd eraill, mae Bro Taf wedi llunio cynllun gwella iechyd. Mae’n dadansoddi materion iechyd a’r gwasanaeth iechyd ac yn amlinellu’r ffordd ymlaen. Mae’r ddogfen yn arddangos yr amrywiaeth a geir yn ardal yr awdurdod iechyd. Mae tablau sydd yn cymharu’r gwahanol ardaloedd o fewn Bro Taf yn dangos gwahaniaethau amlwg ar sawl agwedd bwysig gan gynnwys strwythur oedran, cyfraddau geni ymhlith yr arddegau, cyfraddau marwolaeth, achosion marwolaeth, cyfraddau mynd i’r ysbyty a chyfraddau presgripsiwn.

Huw Lewis spoken in English p. 87

Huw Lewis siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 87

This is relevant to your comments. I am anxious that you convey to the Assembly Secretary and the Cabinet an issue that has been touched on here. Without a fair funding formula for the NHS in Wales, inequalities in health provision, which we have discussed this afternoon, will continue. The northern end of the Bro Taf Health Authority area has the worst health and disease in Wales. We need a system in which resources are allocated according to sickness instead of the present system in which resources are just based on a head count. You could think of Bro Taf as a microcosm of Wales, with enormous inequalities within its boundaries.

Mae hyn yn berthnasol i’ch sylwadau. Yr wyf yn awyddus ichi gyfleu i’r Ysgrifennydd Cynulliad a’r Cabinet fater y cyffyrddwyd arno yma. Heb fformwla ariannu teg i’r NHS yng Nghymru, bydd anghydraddoldebau mewn darpariaeth iechyd, y trafodasom y prynhawn yma, yn parhau. Pen gogleddol Awdurdod Iechyd Bro Taf sydd â’r iechyd a’r afiechyd gwaethaf yng Nghymru. Yr ydym angen system lle dyrennir adnoddau yn ôl salwch yn hytrach na’r system bresennol lle darperir adnoddau ar sail cyfrif pennau yn unig. Gallech feddwl am Fro Taf fel microcosm o Gymru, gydag anghydraddoldebau mawr o fewn ei ffiniau.

The current increases in NHS spending are a great achievement for Labour. I congratulate the Government of Wales. However, without a fair formula, the increases in spending will perversely increase the inequality of health provision as funding will be allocated according to existing structures and not to reflect sickness. We must accelerate the implementation of a fair funding formula for the NHS because without that, we will stoke up inequality instead of combating it. We also need to address inequalities on a sub-health authority basis; beneath the level of health authorities because Bro Taf advertises the fact that it is not being combated at present.

Mae’r codiadau presennol yng ngwariant yr NHS yn gamp fawr i Lafur. Llongyfarchaf Lywodraeth Cymru. Fodd bynnag, heb fformwla deg, bydd y cynyddion mewn gwariant yn groes i’r graen yn cynyddu anghydraddoldeb gwariant ar iechyd wrth i arian gael ei ddyrannu yn ôl strwythurau sydd yn bodoli ac nid mewn modd sydd yn adlewyrchu salwch. Rhaid inni gyflymu’r gwaith o weithredu fformwla ariannu deg i’r NHS oherwydd heb hynny, byddwn yn hyrwyddo anghydraddoldeb yn lle ei ymladd. Mae angen inni fynd i’r afael hefyd ag anghyfartaleddau ar lefel is nag awdurdodau iechyd gan fod Bro Taf yn hysbysebu’r ffaith nad yw hyn yn cael ei wneud ar hyn o bryd.

Alun Pugh spoken in English p. 88

Alun Pugh siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 88

Huw made several valid points. Fair funding is essential if we are to tackle the serious and huge health inequalities in Wales. That is why Professor Townsend made inequality a central theme in his funding review. You make an important point about the distribution of funds within health authorities as well as among them. However, the timescale is already tight. I cannot give you an assurance that we can accelerate that timescale this afternoon. The interim findings are due to be presented to the Health and Social Services Committee later this year.

Gwnaeth Huw sawl pwynt dilys. Mae ariannu teg yn hanfodol os ydym am fynd i’r afael â’r anghydraddoldebau iechyd anferth a difrifol yng Nghymru. Dyna pam gosododd Athro Townsend anghydraddoldeb yn thema ganolog yn ei adolygiad o gyllid. Gwnewch bwynt pwysig ynglŷn â dosbarthiad arian o fewn awdurdodau iechyd yn ogystal â rhyngddynt. Fodd bynnag, mae’r amser eisoes yn brin. Ni allaf roi sicrwydd ichi y gallwn gyflymu’r broses y prynhawn yma. Mae’r canfyddiadau interim i gael eu cyflwyno i’r Pwyllgor Iechyd a Gwasanaethau Cymdeithasol yn ddiweddarach eleni.

There are some serious social, economic and other inequalities that characterise Bro Taf. The South East Wales Regional Committee has discussed the cause and nature of these inequalities. Their roots are deep in society. There are social, economic, environmental and lifestyle issues, as well as those relating to the availability and accessibility of services. Tackling such deep-rooted problems requires good information, broad community involvement, commitment, action and, yes, money. I was pleased that the Liberal Democrats acknowledged the bonanza of additional funding—their words not mine—for the NHS in Wales. However such deep-seated problems are not susceptible to short-term solutions and cannot be addressed by quick fix initiatives. However, I take issue with you in that they are not intractable.

Mae rhai anghydraddoldebau cymdeithasol, economaidd ac eraill difrifol sydd yn nodweddiadol o Fro Taf. Mae Pwyllgor Rhanbarth y De-ddwyrain wedi ystyried natur ac achos yr anghydraddoldebau hyn. Mae eu gwreiddiau’n ddwfn mewn cymdeithas. Mae yma faterion cymdeithasol, economaidd, amgylcheddol a ffordd-o-fyw, yn ogystal â rhai’n ymwneud ag argaeledd a hygyrchedd gwasanaethau. I ymdrin â phroblemau sydd wedi gwreiddio mor ddwfn mae angen gwybodaeth dda, cyfranogiad cymunedol eang, ymrwymiad, gweithredu ac, ie, arian. Yr oeddwn yn falch fod y Democratiaid Rhyddfrydol wedi cydnabod yr arian mawr ychwanegol—eu geiriau hwy, nid fy rhai i—i’r NHS yng Nghymru. Fodd bynnag, nid yw problemau sydd wedi gwreiddio mor ddwfn yn rhai a ddatrysir gan atebion tymor byr. Fodd bynnag, nid wyf yn cytuno na ellir gwneud dim amdanynt.

Kirsty Williams spoken in English p. 89

Kirsty Williams siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 89

Do you accept that it is vital that any increased investment in the NHS is on a recurrent basis? By putting money in this year but not letting health authorities and trusts know whether that money will be available again next year, you will not solve the problems. Sustained, planned investment will truly tackle the health inequalities and the waiting list problems that have been outlined today, not quick fix, one-off waiting list initiatives that distort clinical priorities.

A ydych yn cytuno ei bod yn holl bwysig i unrhyw fuddsoddiad ychwanegol yn y NHS fod ar sail reolaidd? Drwy roi arian i mewn eleni ond peidio â gadael i awdurdodau ac ymddiriedolaethau iechyd wybod a fydd yr arian hwnnw ar gael eto’r flwyddyn nesaf, ni wnewch ddatrys y problemau. Buddsoddiad cyson, cynlluniedig yw’r gwir ateb i’r problemau gydag anghyfartaleddau iechyd a rhestrau aros a amlinellwyd heddiw, nid atebion sydyn, tymor byr i leihau rhestrau aros, sydd yn llurgunio blaenoriaethau clinigol.

Alun Pugh spoken in English p. 89

Alun Pugh siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 89

I agree. That is why the Labour Party is committed to increasing resources year on year for the health service.

Cytunaf. Dyna pam y mae’r Blaid Lafur wedi ymrwymo i gynyddu adnoddau flwyddyn ar ôl blwyddyn i’r gwasanaeth iechyd.

David Lloyd spoken in English p. 89

David Lloyd siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 89

Even after the so-called bonanza, the UK’s expenditure on health as a percentage of its GDP is 7.6 per cent. That is way below the European average. It has increased from 6.9 per cent to 7.6 per cent, but it is hardly a bonanza and still well below the European average.

Hyd yn oed ar ôl yr arian mawr bondigrybwyll, 7.6 y cant yw gwariant y DU ar iechyd fel canran o’i chynnyrch mewnwladol crynswth. Mae hynny ymhell o dan y cyfartaledd drwy Ewrop. Mae wedi cynyddu o 6.9 y cant i 7.6 y cant, ond prin ei fod yn arian mawr ac mae’n dal i fod ymhell o dan gyfartaledd Ewrop.

Alun Pugh spoken in English p. 89

Alun Pugh siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 89

The health authority has indicated that work on the health improvement plan is continuing and that it will continue to work with partners to secure further joint agreement on the key priorities for April 2001. However, there is already progress on key areas. These are mental health services, David, children’s services, cancer, cardiovascular disease, primary care development—to which I will return in a minute—acute services, and our expectations regarding waiting times and lists. That list strongly reflects our priorities for Wales. The health improvement plan identifies the development work that the authority is planning in each of these areas. It sets out the improvements that those in Bro Taf can expect, including a start on equity of access to equivalent and comparable primary care services throughout the area; an increase in the number of people receiving orthopaedic treatment and a reduction in those waiting for inpatient or day care treatment.

Mae’r awdurdod iechyd wedi nodi fod gwaith ar y cynllun gwella iechyd yn parhau ac y bydd yn parhau i weithio gyda phartneriaid i sicrhau cyd-gytundeb pellach ar y blaenoriaethau allweddol ar gyfer Ebrill 2001. Fodd bynnag, y mae eisoes gynnydd ar feysydd allweddol. Y rhain yw gwasanaethau iechyd meddwl, David, gwasanaethau plant, canser, clefyd cardiofasgwlaidd, datblygu iechyd sylfaenol —y deuaf yn ôl ato mewn munud—gwasanaethau llym, a’n disgwyliadau parthed amserau a rhestrau aros. Mae’r rhestr honno’n adlewyrchu’n gryf ein blaenoriaethau ar gyfer Cymru. Mae’r cynllun gwella iechyd yn nodi’r gwaith datblygu y mae’r awdurdod yn ei gynllunio ym mhob un o’r meysydd hyn. Mae’n amlinellu’r gwelliannau y gall pobl ym Mro Taf eu disgwyl, gan gynnwys dechrau gweithio tuag at fynediad teg at wasanaethau gofal sylfaenol cyfwerth a chymharol drwy’r ardal gyfan; cynnydd yn y nifer o bobl a gaiff driniaeth orthopedig; a lleihad yn y niferoedd sydd yn aros am driniaeth fel cleifion mewnol neu ofal dydd.

The document also refers to the work of the health authority and the trusts in jointly developing a three-year action and investment plan for the management of waiting lists and times. It concentrates on long-term agreements and commitments, managing emergency pressures, clinical effectiveness, hospital capacity, a long-term assessment of demand for hospital services and closer working with GPs to manage waiting lists. Earlier I mentioned the need for enhanced levels of investment in the NHS in Wales. This year health authorities in Wales received £2.2 billion. That is an overall cash increase of £196 million, some 9.4 per cent on 1999-2000. Of this, £567 million was allocated to Bro Taf Health Authority, an increase of £52 million on the previous year. Bro Taf received the highest cash uplift of all the Welsh health authorities in 2000-01, some 11 per cent.

Cyfeiria’r ddogfen hefyd at waith yr awdurdod iechyd a’r ymddiriedolaethau yn cyd-ddatblygu cynllun gweithredu a buddsoddi tair blynedd ar gyfer rheoli rhestrau ac amserau aros. Mae’n canolbwyntio ar gytundebau ac ymrwymiadau tymor hir, rheoli pwysau argyfwng, effeithiolrwydd clinigol, cynhwysedd ysbytai, asesiad tymor hir o’r galw am wasanaethau ysbyty a gweithio’n agosach gyda meddygon teulu i reoli rhestrau aros. Yn gynharach crybwyllais yr angen am lefelau uwch o fuddsoddi yn yr NHS yng Nghymru. Eleni derbyniodd awdurdodau iechyd yng Nghymru £2.2 biliwn. Dyna gynnydd ariannol cyffredinol o £196 miliwn, rhyw 9.4 y cant ar 1999-2000. O hyn, dyrannwyd £567 miliwn i Awdurdod Iechyd Bro Taf, cynnydd o £52 miliwn ar y flwyddyn flaenorol. Bro Taf a gafodd y cynnydd ariannol mwyaf o holl awdurdodau iechyd Cymru yn 2000-01, sef rhyw 11 y cant.

Under a previous administration, the capital programme and central funding of specialised facilities were cut back. That prevented the NHS from investing in new build facilities, more beds, community facilities and theatres. It also stopped the expansion of key services such as cardiac, critical care, plastic surgery and cancer services. Under capacity and long waiting lists were the inevitable result. In March, my colleague Jane Hutt announced a package of capital schemes totalling £53 million to be funded from the Assembly’s capital modernisation fund and the sale of surplus estate. Some of the schemes included are the development of a £12 million mental illness unit to serve the Rhondda and Taff Ely area and £8 million to tackle health and safety issues and to improve the building at Prince Charles Hospital in Merthyr Tydfil. On my recent visit to the brand new Royal Glamorgan Hospital, I was impressed with the new facilities, although I was less impressed with the number of patients and visitors smoking outside. Nearly 2,000 smoking deaths occur every year in the Bro Taf Health Authority area as a direct result of smoking-related diseases. We should all be pleased that work on the new community hospital to serve western Cardiff—St. David’s—started on 15 May.

Dan weinyddiaeth flaenorol, cwtogwyd y rhaglen gyfalaf a chyllid canolog i gyfleusterau arbenigol. Ataliodd hynny yr NHS rhag buddsoddi mewn cyfleusterau adeiladu o’r newydd, mwy o welyau, cyfleusterau cymunedol a theatrau. Ataliodd hefyd ehangu gwasanaethau allweddol fel gwasanaethau cardiaidd, gofal critigol, llawfeddygaeth blastig a chanser. Diffyg llefydd a rhestrau aros hir oedd y canlyniad anochel. Ym mis Mawrth, cyhoeddodd fy nghyd-Aelod Jane Hutt becyn o gynlluniau cyfalaf gwerth cyfanswm o £53 miliwn i’w hariannu o gronfa foderneiddio cyfalaf y Cynulliad ac o werthu tir ac adeiladau sydd yn weddill i ofynion. Ymhlith y cynlluniau a gynhwyswyd mae datblygiad uned salwch meddwl £12 miliwn i wasanaethu ardal Rhondda a Thaf Elái ac £8 miliwn i fynd i’r afael â materion iechyd a diogelwch ac i wella’r adeilad yn Ysbyty’r Tywysog Charles ym Merthyr Tudful. Ar f’ymweliad diweddar ag Ysbyty Brenhinol newydd sbon Morgannwg, cefais argraff dda o’r cyfleusterau newydd, er na wnaeth y nifer o gleifion ac ymwelwyr a oedd yn ysmygu’r tu allan argraff gystal. Mae bron i 2,000 o bobl yn marw bob blwyddyn yn ardal Awdurdod Iechyd Bro Taf o ganlyniad uniongyrchol i afiechydon sydd yn gysylltiedig ag ysmygu. Dylem i gyd fod yn falch fod gwaith ar yr ysbyty cymunedol newydd i wasanaethu gorllewin Caerdydd—Ysbyty Dewi Sant—wedi dechrau ar 15 Mai.

The Assembly is making use of the flexibilities under the NHS (Primary Care) Act 1997 to explore new ways of delivering primary care. There is evidence to suggest that the current rules and regulations governing GPs and dentists are too restrictive. This legislation provides an opportunity to try out different models and structures for delivering those services. I hear Geraint loud and clear on that and the Government of Wales is committed to adopting a flexible approach. The aim will be to deliver services that better reflect the needs of the practice population. A pilot scheme might be particularly effective in tackling health inequality, especially in communities that do not have access to the level and quality of service that we wish to see. I am pleased that there has been a good response in the Bro Taf area to the Assembly’s request for expressions of interest in this initiative. Christine Chapman is right—we need to raise people’s aspirations in areas such as the Cynon Valley. I am pleased that an additional three health visitors have been recruited recently in North Glamorgan NHS Trust.

Mae’r Cynulliad yn defnyddio’r hyblygrwydd dan Ddeddf yr NHS (Gofal Sylfaenol) 1997 i ymchwilio i ffyrdd newydd o gyflwyno gofal cynradd. Mae tystiolaeth i awgrymu fod y rheolau a’r rheoliadau cyfredol ar feddygon teulu a deintyddion yn rhy gyfyngus. Mae’r ddeddfwriaeth hon yn cynnig cyfle i roi cynnig ar wahanol fodelau a strwythurau ar gyfer cyflwyno’r gwasanaethau hynny. Clywaf Geraint yn glir ar y pwnc hwnnw ac mae Llywodraeth Cymru wedi ymrwymo i fod yn hyblyg. Y nod fydd cyflwyno gwasanaethau sydd yn adlewyrchiad gwell o anghenion poblogaeth y practis. Gallai cynllun peilot fod yn arbennig o effeithiol o ran mynd i’r afael ag anghydraddoldeb iechyd, yn enwedig mewn cymunedau sydd heb fynediad at y lefel a’r ansawdd gwasanaeth y dymunwn ei weld. Yr wyf yn falch y cafwyd ymateb da yn ardal Bro Taf i gais y Cynulliad am fynegiadau o ddiddordeb yn y fenter hon. Mae Christine Chapman yn llygad ei lle—mae angen codi dyheadau pobl mewn ardaloedd fel Cwm Cynon. Yr wyf yn falch fod tri ymwelydd iechyd ychwanegol wedi’u penodi’n ddiweddar yn Ymddiriedolaeth NHS Gogledd Morgannwg.

Waiting lists in Bro Taf are among the highest in Wales, but the problems are not uniform. For example, waiting lists for inpatients, as we would expect, are virtually non-existent at Velindre NHS Trust. Cardiff and District Community NHS Trust has the highest percentage of patients waiting over 12 months for inpatient treatment, while North Glamorgan NHS Trust has some of the lowest. North Glamorgan saw the largest rise in inpatient waiting lists between April last year and April this year, but the outpatient waiting list fell by 3 per cent. The inpatient waiting list in North Glamorgan NHS Trust is concentrated in certain areas, such as trauma and orthopaedics. In Cardiff and District Community and in Pontypridd and Rhondda NHS Trusts it is concentrated in general surgery as well as trauma and orthopaedics.

Mae rhestrau aros ym Mro Taf ymhlith yr uchaf yng Nghymru, ond nid yw’r problemau’n unffurf. Er enghraifft, nid oes nemor ddim rhestr aros i gleifion mewnol yn Ymddiriedolaeth NHS Felindre, yn unol â’r disgwyl. Gan Ymddiriedolaeth NHS Cymuned Caerdydd a’r Cylch y mae’r ganran uchaf o gleifion sydd yn gorfod aros dros 12 mis am driniaeth fel cleifion mewnol, tra bod Ymddiriedolaeth NHS Gogledd Morgannwg ymhlith yr isaf. Gogledd Morgannwg a welodd y cynnydd mwyaf mewn rhestrau aros cleifion mewnol rhwng Ebrill y llynedd ac Ebrill eleni, ond cwympodd rhestr aros cleifion allanol 3 y cant. Mae rhestr aros y cleifion mewnol yn Ymddiriedolaeth NHS Gogledd Morgannwg wedi’i chanoli mewn rhai meysydd, fel trawma ac orthopedeg. Yn Ymddiriedolaethau NHS Cymuned Caerdydd a’r Cylch a Phontypridd a’r Rhondda mae wedi’i chanoli mewn llawfeddygaeth gyffredinol yn ogystal â thrawma ac orthopedeg.

In Bro Taf, the problems with the inpatient waiting list are concentrated in two specialities—general surgery and orthopaedics, which contain 50 per cent of the total waiting list and 73 per cent of the longwaiters. The reasons for this are well understood. First, under-investment in previous years. Second, the impact of an ageing population. Finally, decisions to extend treatment to those previously not considered suitable as a result of experience and developing techniques. We are now in a position to start addressing these deep-seated and neglected problems and deliver shorter waiting lists and faster treatment times.

Ym Mro Taf, mae’r problemau gyda rhestr aros y cleifion mewnol wedi’u canoli mewn dau faes arbenigol—llawfeddygaeth gyffredinol ac orthopedeg, sydd yn cynnwys 50 y cant o’r rhestr aros gyfan a 73 y cant o’r arhoswyr hir. Deellir y rhesymau dros hyn yn dda. Yn gyntaf, tan-fuddsoddi mewn blynyddoedd blaenorol. Yn ail, effaith poblogaeth sydd yn heneiddio. Yn olaf, penderfyniadau i estyn triniaeth i rai nad ystyriwyd eu bod yn addas o’r blaen o ganlyniad i brofiad a datblygu technegau. Yr ydym bellach mewn sefyllfa i ddechrau rhoi sylw i’r problemau hyn sydd wedi gwreiddio’n ddwfn ac a esgeuluswyd hyd yma, gan gwtogi rhestrau aros a chyflymu amserau triniaeth.

An orthopaedic project group has been set up within Bro Taf Health Authority in response to concerns that orthopaedic services, as currently configured, cannot meet the demands of the local population. This project will develop a strategy and action plan for sustainable improvement in orthopaedic provision. The project will aim to provide longer-term solutions to ensure that any benefits from short-term initiatives are maintained and strengthened. Long-term solutions to the problems in orthopaedics are a requirement of the £40 million made available this year to tackle waiting lists and long waiting times. I am pleased to note that Cardiff and District Community NHS Trust has been able to recruit two new orthopaedic consultants and to make permanent the post of one of their long-term locums.

Sefydlwyd grŵp prosiect orthopedig o fewn Awdurdod Iechyd Bro Taf mewn ymateb i bryderon na all gwasanaethau orthopedig, fel y maent wedi’u trefnu ar hyn o bryd, gwrdd â gofynion y boblogaeth leol. Bydd y prosiect hwn yn datblygu strategaeth a chynllun gweithredu ar gyfer gwelliant cynaliadwy yn y ddarpariaeth orthopedig, Nod y prosiect fydd darparu atebion mwy hirdymor i sicrhau y caiff unrhyw fudd a ddeillia o fentrau tymor byr ei gynnal a’i gryfhau. Mae atebion tymor hir i’r problemau mewn orthopedeg yn un o ofynion y £40 miliwn a ddarparwyd eleni i fynd i’r afael â rhestrau aros ac amserau aros hir. Yr wyf yn falch o nodi fod Ymddiriedolaeth NHS Cymuned Caerdydd a’r Cylch wedi llwyddo i recriwtio dau ymgynghorydd orthopedig newydd ac i wneud swydd un o’u dirprwy feddygon tymor hir yn swydd barhaol.

On cardiac services, the Specialised Health Services Commission for Wales undertakes the commissioning of specialist cardiac surgery on behalf of all five health authorities. Following their review, Jane Hutt has already provided an additional £1.5 million to ease the severest pressures on these services this year. In May, the Government of Wales allocated over £40 million to health communities to tackle unacceptably long waiting lists and times. Health authorities have collectively agreed to reduce to around 65,000 the number on the inpatient and day case waiting list—a reduction of 15,000. Bro Taf Health Authority’s contribution to this will be to cut their waiting list to around 16,500. It has also agreed to cut to 5,000 the number of patients waiting more than six months for non-orthopaedic first outpatient treatment. Bro Taf received £9.8 million to help to meet these targets and to ensure that organisations can meet inevitable pressures this winter. The money has been made available against explicit commitments and the chief executive of Bro Taf will be accountable for progress against these targets. In taking this forward, Bro Taf has been looking to a variety of approaches, such as initiatives in many surgical areas, developing clinical networks, additional support for primary care and speeding access to hospital diagnostic services. In addition, a further £6 million is proposed to enable the health authority to meet other Assembly priorities.

Ar wasanaethau cardiaidd, bydd Comisiwn Gwasanaeth Iechyd Arbenigol Cymru’n ymgymryd â chomisiynu llawfeddygaeth gardiaidd arbenigol ar ran y pum awdurdod iechyd. Yn sgîl eu hadolygiad, mae Jane Hutt eisoes wedi darparu £1.5 miliwn ychwanegol i leddfu’r pwysau gwaethaf ar y gwasanaethau hyn eleni. Ym mis Mai, dyrannodd Llywodraeth Cymru dros £40 miliwn i gymunedau iechyd i fynd i’r afael â rhestrau ac amserau aros annerbyniol o hir. Mae awdurdodau iechyd ar y cyd wedi cytuno i gwtogi’r nifer ar restr aros cleifion mewnol a gofal dydd i ryw 65,000—gostyngiad o 15,000. Cyfraniad Awdurdod Iechyd Bro Taf i hyn fydd torri eu rhestr aros i ryw 16,500. Cytunodd hefyd i gwtogi i 5,000 nifer y cleifion sydd yn aros am fwy na chwe mis am driniaeth cyntaf i gleifion allanol nad yw’n orthopedig. Cafodd Bro Taf £9.8 miliwn i helpu cyrraedd y targedau hyn a sicrhau y gall sefydliadau ymateb i bwysau anochel y gaeaf yma. Darparwyd yr arian ar sail ymrwymiadau penodol a bydd prif weithredwr Bro Taf yn atebol am y modd y cyflawnir y targedau hyn. Wrth fynd â hyn ymlaen, mae Bro Taf wedi edrych ar sawl dull o weithio, fel mentrau mewn sawl maes llawfeddygol, datblygu rhwydweithiau clinigol, cefnogaeth ychwanegol i ofal sylfaenol a hwyluso mynediad at wasanaethau diagnostig ysbytai. Ar ben hynny, cynigir £6 miliwn pellach i alluogi’r awdurdod iechyd i gwrdd â blaenoriaethau eraill y Cynulliad.

The Government of Wales has given the service the resources needed to tackle waiting lists and times and emergency pressures. I expect it to meet the targets that it has agreed.

Mae Llywodraeth Cymru wedi rhoi i’r gwasanaeth yr adnoddau angenrheidiol i fynd i’r afael â rhestrau ac amserau aros a phwysau argyfwng. Disgwyliaf iddo gyrraedd y targedau y cytunodd arnynt.

Jane Davidson The Deputy Presiding Officer spoken in English p. 93

Jane Davidson Y Dirprwy Lywydd siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 93

That concludes business for today. I thank Members.

Dyna ddiwedd busnes am heddiw. Diolch i’r Aelodau.

Daeth y cyfarfod i ben am 5.31 p.m.

The session ended at 5.31 p.m