Cymraeg

Cynulliad Cenedlaethol CymruNational Assembly for Wales · Cyfarfod llawnPlenary sitting

Dydd Mawrth 27 Chwefror 2001

Tuesday 27 February 2001

DechreuoddMet 14:00 · Daeth i benRose 17:34

Gweld y Cofnod (PDF)View the Record (PDF)

Heb ei wirio â llaw etoNot yet checked by hand

CynnwysContents

  1. 3Teyrnged i’r Arglwydd Cledwyn o BenrhosTribute to Lord Cledwyn of Penrhos
  2. 5Cwestiynau i Brif Weinidog CymruQuestions to the First Minister
    1. 5Buddiannau DeddfwriaetholLegislative Interests
    2. 7Isadeiledd Effeithlon yng NghymruAn Efficient Welsh Infrastructure
    3. 8Goblygiadau Polisi Ewropeaidd i GymruThe Implications of European Policy for Wales
    4. 10System Amddiffyn Taflegrau Genedlaethol yr Unol DaleithiauThe US National Missile Defence System
    5. 12Datblygu PolisïauPolicy Development
    6. 16Mynd i’r Afael ag Anfantais GymdeithasolTackling Social Disadvantage
    7. 17Adroddiad yr Archwilydd Cyffredinol ar y CynulliadThe Auditor General’s Report on the Assembly
    8. 19Gweinidogion Cabinet y CynulliadThe Assembly’s Cabinet Ministers
    9. 21Pwysigrwydd Cymru Iach a ChynaliadwyThe Importance of a Healthy and Sustainable Wales
    10. 22Swyddi Ychwanegol yng Ngorllewin Cymru a’r Cymoedd erbyn 2003Extra Jobs in West Wales and the Valleys by 2003
    11. 24Datganiad ar Glwy’r Traed a’r GenauStatement on Foot and Mouth Disease
  3. 44Datganiad BusnesBusiness Statement
  4. 45Cymeradwyo Gorchymyn Personau Digartref (Angen Blaenoriaethol) (Cymru) 2001Approval of the Homeless Persons (Priority Need) (Wales) Order 2001 2 o bleidleisiau2 votes
  5. 59Cymeradwyo Gorchymyn Deddf Llywodraeth Leol a Thai 1989 (Cyfathrebu Electronig) (Cymru) 2001Approval of the Local Government and Housing Act 1989 (Electronic Communications) (Wales) Order 2001 2 o bleidleisiau2 votes
  6. 64Cynnig Cyfansawdd: Cymeradwyo Gorchmynion DrafftComposite Motion: Approval of Draft Orders 1 bleidlais1 vote
  7. 65Cynnig TrefniadolProcedural Motion 1 bleidlais1 vote
  8. 67Cymeradwyo Rheoliadau’r Cynllun Taliadau Anarddwys 2001Approval of the Extensifcation Payment Scheme Regulations 2001 1 bleidlais1 vote
  9. 68Y Strategaeth Sgiliau SylfaenolThe Basic Skills Strategy 5 o bleidleisiau5 votes
  10. 95Cymeradwyo Adroddiad Grant Arbennig Diogelwch FfyrddApproval of the Road Safety Special Grant Report 1 bleidlais1 vote
  11. 101Cynnig TrefniadolProcedural Motion 1 bleidlais1 vote
  12. 102Cynnig TrefniadolProcedural Motion 1 bleidlais1 vote

PleidleisiauVotes

PleidlaisVoteO blaidForYmatalAbstainYn erbynAgainstCanlyniadResult
Cymeradwyo Gorchymyn Personau Digartref (Angen Blaenoriaethol) (Cymru) 2001Approval of the Homeless Persons (Priority Need) (Wales) Order 2001
CynnigMotion3800DerbyniwydAdopted
CynnigMotion3800DerbyniwydAdopted
Cymeradwyo Gorchymyn Deddf Llywodraeth Leol a Thai 1989 (Cyfathrebu Electronig) (Cymru) 2001Approval of the Local Government and Housing Act 1989 (Electronic Communications) (Wales) Order 2001
CynnigMotion3600DerbyniwydAdopted
CynnigMotion3600DerbyniwydAdopted
Cynnig Cyfansawdd: Cymeradwyo Gorchmynion DrafftComposite Motion: Approval of Draft Orders
Cynnig cyfansawddComposite motion3600DerbyniwydAdopted
Cynnig TrefniadolProcedural Motion
Cynnig trefniadolProcedural motion3600DerbyniwydAdopted
Cymeradwyo Rheoliadau’r Cynllun Taliadau Anarddwys 2001Approval of the Extensifcation Payment Scheme Regulations 2001
CynnigMotion3600DerbyniwydAdopted
Y Strategaeth Sgiliau SylfaenolThe Basic Skills Strategy
Gwelliant 1Amendment 151028GwrthodwydRejected
Gwelliant 2Amendment 24300DerbyniwydAdopted
Gwelliant 3Amendment 311032GwrthodwydRejected
Gwelliant 4Amendment 411032GwrthodwydRejected
Cynnig wedi’i ddiwygioAmended motion4200DerbyniwydAdopted
Cymeradwyo Adroddiad Grant Arbennig Diogelwch FfyrddApproval of the Road Safety Special Grant Report
CynnigMotion3800DerbyniwydAdopted
Cynnig TrefniadolProcedural Motion
Cynnig trefniadolProcedural motion3700DerbyniwydAdopted
Cynnig TrefniadolProcedural Motion
Cynnig trefniadolProcedural motion3600DerbyniwydAdopted

TrafodionProceedings

Cyfarfu’r Cynulliad am 2 p.m. gyda’r Llywydd yn y Gadair

The Assembly met at 2 p.m. with the Presiding Officer in the Chair

Teyrnged i’r Arglwydd Cledwyn o Benrhos

Tribute to Lord Cledwyn of Penrhos

Dafydd Elis-Thomas Y Llywydd siaradwyd yn Gymraeg t. 3

Dafydd Elis-Thomas The Presiding Officer spoken in Welsh p. 3

Galwaf ar Brif Weinidog Cymru i arwain y teyrngedau i’n diweddar gyfaill, yr Arglwydd Cledwyn o Benrhos. Byddaf wedyn yn gofyn i’r Cynulliad sefyll mewn coffadwriaeth, o gofio y cynhelir y gwasanaeth angladdol ar yr un adeg â’r cyfarfod hwn.

I call on the First Minister to lead the tributes to our late friend, Lord Cledwyn of Penrhos. I will then ask the Assembly to stand in remembrance, bearing in mind that the funeral service is being held at the same time as this meeting.

Rhodri Morgan Prif Weinidog Cymru siaradwyd yn Gymraeg t. 3

Rhodri Morgan The First Minister spoken in Welsh p. 3

Diolch am y cyfle i dalu teyrnged i’r Arglwydd Cledwyn, a fu farw yr wythnos diwethaf. Heddiw yw diwrnod ei angladd ac, er tristwch yr achlysur, yr wyf yn falch o gael y fraint o siarad amdano a bod y Cynulliad yn gallu talu teyrnged iddo heddiw. Bu Cledwyn fyw i weld gwireddu rhan o’i weledigaeth, sef y Cynulliad. Braint i mi, felly, fel ail Brif Weinidog y Cynulliad, yw talu teyrnged i ail Ysgrifennydd Gwladol Cymru. Yr oeddwn yn was sifil ifanc yn ystod cyfnod yr Arglwydd Cledwyn fel Ysgrifennydd Gwladol rhwng 1966 ac 1968, ac yn un o’i edmygwyr yn ystod ei yrfa wleidyddol. Yr wyf yn falch, felly, fod y Cynulliad wedi ei sefydlu, fel bod y corff hwn yn gallu talu teyrnged i un o gewri gwleidyddol Cymru yn ail hanner yr ugeinfed ganrif.

Thank you for the opportunity to pay tribute to Lord Cledwyn, who passed away last week. His funeral is being held today and, despite the sadness of the occasion, I am pleased to have the honour of speaking about him and that the Assembly can pay tribute to him today. Cledwyn lived to see part of his vision realised, namely the Assembly. I am honoured, therefore, as the Assembly’s second First Minister, to pay tribute to the second Secretary of State for Wales. I was a junior civil servant during Lord Cledwyn’s time as Secretary of State between 1966 and 1968, and was one of his admirers during his political career. I am pleased, therefore, that the Assembly has been established, so that this body can pay tribute to one of Wales’s political giants during the second half of the twentieth century.

Yr oedd yn ddyn a garai ei ynys, ei fro, ei etholaeth a’i blaid, ac yr oedd ei gariad at Gymru yn fwy na 100 y cant. Rhan o’i weledigaeth oedd gweld Cymru’n cymryd ei lle fel cenedl ar y map gwleidyddol. Wrth sefydlu’r Cynulliad felly, gwireddwyd yr elfen honno o’i weledigaeth a’i ymgyrch yn ystod ei yrfa wleidyddol. Yr wyf yn falch o’r cyfle i dalu teyrnged iddo ef a’i weledigaeth. Hebddo, ni fyddwn yn sefyll yn y fan hon ac ni fyddai’r Cynulliad yn cwrdd heddiw.

He was a man who loved his island, his community, his constituency and his party, and his love for Wales was greater than 100 per cent. Part of his vision was to put Wales on the political map as a nation in its own right. The establishment of the Assembly therefore was the realisation of his vision and campaign during his political career. I am pleased to have the opportunity to pay tribute to him and to his vision. Without him, I would not be standing here and the Assembly would not be in session today.

Dafydd Elis-Thomas Y Llywydd siaradwyd yn Gymraeg t. 3

Dafydd Elis-Thomas The Presiding Officer spoken in Welsh p. 3

Yn absenoldeb Aelod Seneddol Ynys Môn ac Arweinydd yr Wrthblaid, sydd yn mynychu’r angladd, gofynnaf i Dafydd Wigley barhau â’r teyrngedau.

In the absence of the Member of Parliament for Ynys Môn and Leader of the Opposition, who is attending the funeral, I ask Dafydd Wigley to continue the tributes.

Dafydd Wigley siaradwyd yn Gymraeg t. 4

Dafydd Wigley spoken in Welsh p. 4

Byddwch chi, Lywydd, fel minnau, yn cofio am garedigrwydd Cledwyn Hughes pan y’n hetholwyd yn Aelodau Seneddol am y tro cyntaf yn 1974, a’r modd y bu iddo ein helpu i gyfarwyddo â Thŷ’r Cyffredin. Yr oedd yn gymeriad annwyl, ac yn ddyn a weithiai’n galed dros Gymru ac Ynys Môn.

You, Presiding Officer, like myself, will remember Cledwyn Hughes’s kindness when we were first elected to Parliament in 1974, and the way he helped us to become accustomed to the House of Commons. He was a much loved character who worked hard for Wales and Anglesey.

Bu’n Ysgrifennydd Gwladol, a chynorthwyodd â’r gwaith o sefydlu’r Swyddfa Gymreig, fel y soniodd Rhodri. Cynorthwyodd wrth osod seiliau cyfundefn llywodraeth Gymreig. Yr oedd ganddo weledigaeth ar sawl lefel, gan gynnwys cynulliad cenedlaethol—senedd, yn wir—i Gymru. Siom mawr iddo oedd canlyniad refferendwm 1979, ond da o beth ei fod wedi byw yn ddigon hir i allu cyfrannu at newid yr hinsawdd, a sicrhau’r sefydliad sydd gennym erbyn hyn.

He was Secretary of State, and helped to establish the Welsh Office, as Rhodri mentioned. He helped to lay the foundations of the system of Welsh government. His vision spanned several levels, including the establishment of a national assembly—indeed a parliament—for Wales. The 1979 referendum result was a great disappointment to him, but fortunately he lived long enough to be able to contribute to the change in climate, and secure the institution that we have now.

Gweithiai Cledwyn yn ddi-baid dros Brifysgol Cymru a oedd yn agos at ei galon. Iddo ef mae’r diolch bod prifysgol ffederal yn parhau i fodoli yng Nghymru a’n bod yn gallu adeiladu ar hynny.

Cledwyn worked ceaselessly for the University of Wales, which was close to his heart. It is thanks to him that a federal university still exists in Wales, and that we can build on that.

Bu’n Weinidog Amaethyddiaeth, Pysgodfeydd a Bwyd ac yr oedd parch mawr iddo gan y diwydiant amaethyddol. Mae’n eironi mawr y prynhawn yma, wrth gladdu Cledwyn, fod newyddion trist o Ynys Môn.

He was Minister of Agriculture, Fisheries and Food and earned a great deal of respect within the agricultural industry. It is a great irony this afternoon, as Cledwyn is buried, that there is sad news from Anglesey.

Brwydrai dros bopeth da yn ein traddodiadau. Mae’n golled enfawr. Yr ydym yn cydymdeimlo â Jean, yr Arglwyddes Cledwyn, ac â’r teulu ar yr achlysur hwn. Yr oedd yn Gymro mawr, cymwynaswr mawr, a gŵr y byddwn ni, yn wlad ac yn genedl, yn cofio’n hir amdano.

He fought for all that is good in our traditions. It is an enormous loss. Our sympathy goes out to Jean, Lady Cledwyn, and to the family at this time. He was a great Welshman, a great benefactor, and a man whom we, as a country and a nation, will not forget.

Nick Bourne The Leader of the Welsh Conservatives spoken in English p. 4

Nick Bourne Arweinydd Ceidwadwyr Cymru siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 4

I first became aware of Cledwyn Hughes’s political influence when I was a student at Aberystwyth where he—generations before—had been a student and a lawyer, like myself and Carwyn Jones at the same department. He was held in great affection at Aberystwyth and, as Dafydd Wigley mentioned, he retained a lifelong association, and affection for, the university. He served with great distiction as Secretary of State for Wales and as Minister of Agriculture, and later as the Labour leader in the House of Lords. He, more than anyone else, summed up the adage that he who would be a leader should be a bridge. Above all, he was a man of Wales and a man of Ynys Môn. Today our thoughts are with his family and friends as he is buried.

Deuthum yn ymwybodol o ddylanwad gwleidyddol Cledwyn Hughes gyntaf pan oeddwn yn fyfyriwr yn Aberystwyth lle y bu ef—genedlaethau ynghynt—yn fyfyriwr ac yn gyfreithiwr, fel minnau a Carwyn Jones yn yr un adran. Perchid ef yn fawr yn Aberystwyth ac, fel y crybwyllodd Dafydd Wigley, cadwodd gysylltiad â’r brifysgol drwy gydol ei oes, ac yr oedd hithau yn agos at ei galon yntau. Gwasanaethodd â rhagoriaeth fel Ysgrifennydd Gwladol Cymru a Gweinidog dros Amaethyddiaeth, ac yn ddiweddarach fel arweinydd y blaid Lafur yn Nhŷ’r Cyffredin. Ef, yn anad neb arall, a grynhodd yr hen ddihareb a fo ben bid bont. Yn bennaf oll, Cymro a Monwysionyn ydoedd. Heddiw, cydymdeimlwn â’i deulu a’i ffrindiau wrth iddo gael ei gladdu.

Dafydd Elis-Thomas Y Llywydd siaradwyd yn Gymraeg t. 5

Dafydd Elis-Thomas The Presiding Officer spoken in Welsh p. 5

Mynegaf innau fy nghydymdeimlad â Jean, Harry ac Ann fel hen gyfaill i’r teulu. Mae colli Cledwyn yn ddiwedd ar fath arbennig o wleidyddiaeth yng Nghymru yn y Blaid Lafur, ac yng ngogledd Cymru. Er hynny, fel y dywedwyd eisoes, mae’r wleidyddiaeth honno, gwleidyddiaeth Cledwyn, yn para’n fyw yn y Cynulliad. Dyna’r deyrnged fwyaf y gallwn ei thalu iddo.

As an old friend of the family, I too express my sympathy to Jean, Harry and Ann. The loss of Cledwyn is the end of a special type of politics in Wales, in the Labour Party and in north Wales. However, as has already been said, those politics, Cledwyn’s politics, live on in the Assembly. That is the greatest tribute that we can pay to him.

Gofynnaf ichi sefyll mewn coffadwriaeth.

I ask you to stand in remembrance.

Safodd AELODAU’R CYNULLIAD am funud

o dawelwch.

ASSEMBLY MEMBERS stood for a minute’s silence.

Cwestiynau i Brif Weinidog Cymru

Questions to the First Minister

Buddiannau Deddfwriaethol

Legislative Interests

C1 Dafydd Wigley siaradwyd yn Gymraeg t. 5

Q1 Dafydd Wigley spoken in Welsh p. 5

A yw Prif Weinidog Cymru wedi cael unrhyw drafodaethau gydag Ysgrifennydd Gwladol Cymru ynghylch buddiannau deddfwriaethol y Cynulliad sydd yn cystadlu â rhai Llywodraeth y DU? (OAQ9884)

Has the First Minister had any discussions with the Secretary of State for Wales regarding competing legislative interests between the National Assembly for Wales and the UK Government? (OAQ9884)

Rhodri Morgan Prif Weinidog Cymru siaradwyd yn Gymraeg t. 5

Rhodri Morgan The First Minister spoken in Welsh p. 5

Yr wyf yn cynnal trafodaethau rheolaidd ag Ysgrifennydd Gwladol Cymru am fanwl faterion gwahanol, gan gynnwys buddiannau deddfwriaethol Cynulliad Cenedlaethol Cymru. Fodd bynnag, nid wyf yn siŵr am y gair ‘cystadlu’ oherwydd bod y fathemateg yn weddol syml. Yn flynyddol mae Araith y Frenhines yn cynnwys rhyw 25 o Fesurau gwahanol ac yr ydym yn cystadlu â thua 22 o adrannau gwahanol. Rhyw un Mesur i bob adran a gewch o fewn cyfundrefn San Steffan ac efallai un i’r Cynulliad, efallai cymaint â dau ambell flwyddyn, megis adrannau eraill. Mae’r fathemateg yn eglur i bawb.

I hold regular discussions with the Secretary of State for Wales about various detailed issues, including the National Assembly for Wales’s legislative interests. However, I am not sure about the word ‘competing’ because the mathematics is fairly simple. Every year in the Queen’s Speech there are some 25 different Bills and about 22 different departments with which we compete. You will have about one Bill for each department within the Westminster system, and perhaps one for the Assembly, perhaps as many as two some years, as is the case with other departments. The mathematics is clear to everybody.

Dafydd Wigley siaradwyd yn Gymraeg t. 6

Dafydd Wigley spoken in Welsh p. 6

Yr hyn a oedd gennyf dan sylw wrth gyfeirio at fuddiannau sydd yn cystadlu yw pwy sydd â’r cyfrifoldeb, o ran y camau deddfwriaethol sydd yn aml yn angenrheidiol.

In referring to competing interests I was asking who has responsibility, in terms of the legislative processes that are often necessary.

Yng nghyd-destun datblygiadau yr wythnos hon ynghylch clwy’r traed a’r genau, a yw’r Prif Weinidog yn sicr ymhle y mae cyfrifoldeb deddfwriaethol yn gorwedd —o safbwynt deddfwriaeth sylfaenol ac yn arbennig deddfwriaeth eilaidd—o ran y pwerau a’r camau y mae angen eu cymryd i ymdrin â’r sefyllfa ddifrifol sydd wedi datblygu? Mae Cymru a’r ardaloedd gwledig yn arbennig yn edrych i’r Cynulliad Cenedlaethol i weithredu’n fuan i warchod rhag sgîl-effeithiau clwy’r traed a’r genau ac mae angen inni wybod beth yn union yw’n pwerau.

In the context of this week’s developments in relation to the outbreak of foot and mouth disease, is the First Minister certain as to where legislative responsibility lies—with regard to primary legislation and especially secondary legislation—in terms of the powers and the steps needed to get to grips with the serious situation that has arisen? Wales, and rural areas in particular, look to the National Assembly to act quickly to protect against the consequences of foot and mouth disease and we need to know exactly what are our powers.

Rhodri Morgan Prif Weinidog Cymru siaradwyd yn Gymraeg t. 6

Rhodri Morgan The First Minister spoken in Welsh p. 6

Mae dewis ambell waith. Gall Dafydd neu unrhyw un arall ofyn cwestiynau mwy manwl i Carwyn pan wnaiff ei ddatganiad i’r Cynulliad y prynhawn yma. Mae dewis ambell waith rhwng gwneud pethau ar y cyd neu ar wahân ar yr un pryd, gyda Chymru a Lloegr yn llunio deddfwriaeth eilaidd gyda’n gilydd ond ninnau yn ei gwneud dros Gymru, neu ei llunio ar gyfer Lloegr a Chymru fel yn y cyfnod cyn datganoli. Os oes angen, gall Carwyn ateb y cwestiynau’n fwy manwl yn nes ymlaen. Yn ôl yr hyn a ddeallaf am y broses, gwneuthum y penderfyniad y bore yma i lunio ein deddfwriaeth ein hunain ynghylch gwahardd y cyhoedd rhag symud o gwmpas yng nghefn gwlad rhag ofn y byddent yn lledu’r clefyd.

There is a choice sometimes. Dafydd or anyone else can ask more specific questions to Carwyn when he makes his statement to the Assembly this afternoon. There is a choice sometimes between doing things jointly or acting simultaneously but independently of each other, with Wales and England making secondary legislation together but us doing so for Wales, or doing so on an England and Wales basis as in the pre-devolution period. If need be, Carwyn can answer those questions in greater detail later. As far as I understand the process, the decision was made this morning to make our own legislation to ban the public from moving around the countryside in case they spread the disease.

Gwenda Thomas spoken in English p. 6

Gwenda Thomas siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 6

In your discussions with the Secretary of State for Wales, will you welcome the announcement on the new arrangements for enhancing the pensions of miners whose disability led to early retirement?

Yn eich trafodaethau gydag Ysgrifennydd Gwladol Cymru, a wnewch chi groesawu’r cyhoeddiad ar y trefniadau newydd ar gyfer cynyddu pensiynau glowyr y mae eu hanabledd wedi arwain at ymddeoliad cynnar?

Rhodri Morgan The First Minister spoken in English p. 6

Rhodri Morgan Prif Weinidog Cymru siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 6

Yes, I will. That is a long-standing deficiency, in that the shorter your working life the less your ability to build up your pension entitlement. A worker’s pension entitlement should not be penalised as a result of disability. The health side is taken care of by another personal injury procedure, the giant court case that is the largest in British legal history. The pension entitlement is an entirely different matter. I am pleased that £400 million will be set aside to make good the shortfall in people’s pension provision because of their shortened working lives in the coal mining industry.

Gwnaf. Mae hynny’n ddiffyg sydd wedi bodoli ers amser maith, sef y lleiaf yw eich bywyd gwaith y lleiaf yw eich gallu i gronni eich hawl i bensiwn. Ni ddylid cosbi hawl gweithiwr i bensiwn o ganlyniad i anabledd. Gofelir am iechyd gan weithdrefn anaf personol arall, yr achos llys mwyaf yn hanes cyfreithiol Prydain. Mae’r hawl i bensiwn yn fater cwbl wahanol. Yr wyf yn falch y neilltuir £400 miliwn i unioni’r diffyg ym mhensiynau pobl oherwydd i’w bywydau gwaith gael eu cwtogi yn y diwydiant glo.

Isadeiledd Effeithlon yng Nghymru

An Efficient Welsh Infrastructure

C2 Cynog Dafis siaradwyd yn Gymraeg t. 7

Q2 Cynog Dafis spoken in Welsh p. 7

Sut y gwnaiff Prif Weinidog Cymru barhau i gadw cydbwysedd rhwng y galw am isadeiledd effeithlon yng Nghymru a datblygu cynaliadwy a chynhwysiant cymdeithasol? (OAQ9888)

How will the First Minister continue to balance the competing demands of an efficient Welsh infrastructure with sustainable development and social inclusion? (OAQ9888)

Rhodri Morgan Prif Weinidog Cymru siaradwyd yn Gymraeg t. 7

Rhodri Morgan The First Minister spoken in Welsh p. 7

Defnyddiodd Cynog a Dafydd y gair ‘cystadlu’. Efallai bod cystadlu yn obsesiwn gan Dafydd a Cynog ac eraill yn eu plaid heddiw. Ni welwn fod cystadleuaeth rhwng y galw am isadeiledd effeithlon yng Nghymru a datblygu cynaliadwy a chynhwysiant cymdeithasol.

Cynog and Dafydd used the word ‘compete’. Maybe competition is an obsession of Dafydd’s and Cynog’s and others in their party today. We do not see competition between the demands of an efficient Welsh infrastructure with sustainable development and social inclusion.

Cynog Dafis siaradwyd yn Gymraeg t. 7

Cynog Dafis spoken in Welsh p. 7

Ni welaf y gair ‘cystadlu’ yng nghwestiwn Dafydd Wigley nac ychwaeth yn fy nghwestiwn i. ‘Cydbwysedd’ yw’r gair yn fy nghwestiwn i.

I do not see the word ‘compete’ in Dafydd Wigley’s question nor in mine. ‘Cydbwysedd’, which translates as ‘balance’, is the word in my question.

A yw’r Prif Weinidog yn derbyn yr angen i bob sefydliad cenedlaethol gydweithio o blaid datblygu cynaliadwy? Byddai hynny’n cael ei hwyluso pe bai’n cael ei gynnwys yn ffurfiol yn eu cyfrifoldebau. Mae pwyslais y ddeddfwriaeth a sefydlodd Cyngor Cefn Gwlad Cymru yn gyfan gwbl ar warchod y tirwedd, hyrwyddo hamdden a diogelu bio-amrywiaeth. Efallai bod hynny’n esbonio agwedd negyddol y cyngor tuag at ddatblygiadau newydd. A fyddai’r Prif Weinidog yn ystyried ychwanegu hyrwyddo datblygu cynaliadwy at gyfrifoldebau Cyngor Cefn Gwlad Cymru, gan fod hawl gan y Cynulliad i wneud hynny?

Does the First Minister accept the need for every national institution to co-operate on issues of sustainable development? That would be facilitated if it were formally included among their responsibilities. The legislation that established the Countryside Council for Wales concentrates solely on conserving the landscape, promoting leisure and safeguarding biodiversity. Perhaps that explains the council’s negative attitude towards new developments. Would the First Minister consider adding the promotion of sustainable development to the responsibilities of the Countryside Council for Wales, since the Assembly is entitled to do so?

Rhodri Morgan Prif Weinidog Cymru siaradwyd yn Gymraeg t. 7

Rhodri Morgan The First Minister spoken in Welsh p. 7

Mae’n ddrwg gennyf am y gair ‘cystadlu’ ond y mae yn fersiwn Saesneg—er nad efallai yn fersiwn Cymraeg—gwestiynau Dafydd a Cynog a ddarllenais cyn cael y cyfieithiad.

I am sorry about the word ‘compete’ but it is in the English version—although perhaps not in the Welsh version—of Dafydd and Cynog’s questions, which I read before receiving the translation.

Sylwedd cwestiwn Cynog oedd a oes gwrthdaro rhwng y cysyniad o ddatblygu cynaliadwy a holl gwestiwn effeithlondeb ein hisadeiledd yn yr ystyr economaidd. Os yw Cynog am ofyn cwestiwn ynghylch melinau gwynt a Chyngor Cefn Gwlad Cymru, mae’n fwy priodol gofyn i Sue Essex nag i minnau. A yw Cynog yn honni bod Cyngor Cefn Gwlad Cymru yn defnyddio’i hawliau a’i ddyletswyddau mewn modd nad yw ef yn meddwl llawer ohono oherwydd ei fod yn credu bod y cyngor yn ffrwyno’r diwydiant melinau gwynt? Cwestiwn i Sue Essex yw hwnnw, nid i mi. Os oes cwestiwn ehangach na hynny, ni ddylem siarad am ddyletswyddau Cyngor Cefn Gwlad Cymru yn unig. Mae’r cyngor yn defnyddio’i hawl i warchod cefn gwlad Cymru yn erbyn yr hyn y mae’n ei ystyried yn fygythiad neu’n ymyrraeth i fywyd gwyllt a bywyd naturiol cefn gwlad Cymru. Mater i’r broses gynllunio wedyn yw setlo’r gystadleuaeth, os oes cystadleuaeth, ynglŷn â melinau gwynt mewn ardaloedd gwledig eithriadol o hardd. Mewn nifer o esiamplau eraill, nid oes cystadleuaeth rhwng y gamp o sicrhau gwell isadeiledd, mwy o dyfiant economaidd a datblygu cynaliadwy.

The substance of Cynog’s question was whether there is any conflict between the concept of sustainable development and the whole question of the efficiency of our infrastructure in economic terms. If Cynog wishes to ask a question about windmills and the Countryside Council for Wales, it would be more appropriate to address it to Sue Essex than myself. Is Cynog claiming that the Countryside Council for Wales uses its rights and duties in a way that he does not think much of because he feels that the council is holding the windmill industry back? That is a question for Sue Essex, not for me. If there is a broader question here, we should not only be talking about the Countryside Council for Wales’s duties. The council uses its right to protect the Welsh countryside against what it considers to be a threat or disruption to the wildlife and natural life of the Welsh countryside. It is then a matter for the planning process to settle the dispute, if there is such a dispute, regarding windmills in rural areas of outstanding beauty. In many other examples, there is no question of a dispute between the feat of securing a better infrastructure, more economic growth and sustainable development.

Goblygiadau Polisi Ewropeaidd i Gymru

The Implications of European Policy for Wales

Q3 Nick Bourne spoken in English p. 8

C3 Nick Bourne siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 8

What recent discussions has the First Minister had with the Home Office about the implications for Wales of European policy on people seeking asylum in member states? (OAQ9893)

O ran ei oblygiadau i Gymru, pa drafodaethau y mae Prif Weinidog Cymru wedi eu cael yn ddiweddar gyda’r Swyddfa Gartref ynghylch y polisi Ewropeaidd ar bobl sydd yn ceisio lloches yn yr aelod wladwriaethau? (OAQ9893)

Rhodri Morgan The First Minister spoken in English p. 8

Rhodri Morgan Prif Weinidog Cymru siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 8

We have been trying to find out what European policy you might be talking about. We are not aware of a European policy on asylum seekers. This is a matter for the Home Office, rather than the Assembly, and there does not appear to be a European policy, unless you mean the Geneva Convention.

Yr ydym wedi bod yn ceisio darganfod pa bolisi Ewropeaidd y gallech fod yn sôn amdano. Nid ydym yn ymwybodol o bolisi Ewropeaidd ar geiswyr lloches. Mae hyn yn fater i’r Swyddfa Gartref, yn hytrach na’r Cynulliad, ac nid ymddengys bod polisi Ewropeaidd, oni bai eich bod yn golygu Cytundeb Genefa.

Nick Bourne spoken in English p. 8

Nick Bourne siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 8

I do mean the Geneva Convention, but I am also concerned about the Home Office implications. It is not a devolved issue, but the draft concordat with the Home Office provides for early consultation with the National Assembly, which did not happen in relation to the matter of housing failed asylum seekers in Cardiff prison. Will you give an assurance that the draft concordat will be signed shortly—perhaps you can give a date on that—and that when it is signed we will be properly involved in these discussions?

Yr wyf yn golygu Cytundeb Genefa, ond yr wyf hefyd yn bryderus ynghylch y goblygiadau i’r Swyddfa Gartref. Nid yw hyn yn fater a ddatganolwyd, ond mae’r concordat drafft gyda’r Swyddfa Gartref yn caniatáu ymgynghoriad cynnar gyda’r Cynulliad Cenedlaethol, ac ni ddigwyddodd hyn mewn perthynas â’r mater o geiswyr lloches yng ngharchar Caerdydd na ddaethpwyd o hyd i dai ar eu cyfer. A wnewch chi sicrhau y caiff y concordat drafft ei arwyddo’n fuan—efallai y gallwch roi dyddiad—ac y cawn ein cynnwys yn briodol yn y trafodaethau hyn unwaith y bydd wedi’i arwyddo?

Rhodri Morgan The First Minister spoken in English p. 9

Rhodri Morgan Prif Weinidog Cymru siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 9

I can give you that assurance. It will be signed shortly. The key point is that some people believe that there is a European policy relating to the Schengen agreement. The UK is not a signatory of the Schengen agreement. Therefore, there is no method by which if you enter one European country you have gained entry to all other European countries. That is true for countries inside the Schengen agreement area, but it is not true for the UK. Aside from the Geneva Convention, which has an obligation to having a proper system of accepting appeals and the humane treatment of people pending hearings and appeals, and all the other usual defences of human rights that one would expect in the Geneva Convention, there is no other European policy. However, I can give you an assurance that the concordat with the Home Office will be signed shortly.

Gallaf roi’r sicrwydd hwnnw i chi. Caiff ei lofnodi cyn bo hir. Y pwynt allweddol yw y cred rhai pobl fod polisi Ewropeaidd yn ymwneud â chytundeb Schengen. Nid yw’r DU yn un o lofnodwyr cytundeb Schengen. Felly, nid oes unrhyw ddull lle y gallwch gael mynediad i bob gwlad Ewropeaidd arall os cewch fynediad i un wlad Ewropeaidd. Mae hynny’n wir am wledydd y tu mewn i ardal Cytundeb Schengen, ond nid yw’n wir am y DU. Ar wahân i Gytundeb Genefa, sydd â rhwymedigaeth i gael system briodol o dderbyn apeliadau a thrin pobl mewn modd dynol tra’n aros am wrandawiadau ac apeliadau, a’r holl amddiffynfeydd hawliau dynol arferol y byddai rhywun yn ei ddisgwyl yng Nghytundeb Genefa, nid oes polisi Ewropeaidd arall. Fodd bynnag, gallaf eich sicrhau y caiff y concordat gyda’r Swyddfa Gartref ei arwyddo yn fuan.

Peter Black spoken in English p. 9

Peter Black siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 9

Will you confirm that the Assembly’s concerns about housing failed asylum seekers in Cardiff prison have been passed on to the Home Office, as well as the concerns that have been expressed particularly by local government about how asylum seekers are being dispersed around Wales and the apparent lack of co-ordination between the Home Office and local government on this issue?

A wnewch chi gadarnhau y cafodd pryderon y Cynulliad ynghylch ceiswyr lloches yng ngharchar Caerdydd na ddaethpwyd o hyd i dai ar eu cyfer eu trosglwyddo i’r Swyddfa Gartref, yn ogystal â’r pryderon a fynegwyd gan lywodraeth leol ynghylch sut y caiff ceiswyr lloches eu gwasgaru o amgylch Cymru a’r diffyg cydlyniad rhwng y Swyddfa Gartref a llywodraeth leol ar y mater hwn?

Rhodri Morgan The First Minister spoken in English p. 9

Rhodri Morgan Prif Weinidog Cymru siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 9

Although we are not directly responsible for this, we have made our feelings known fairly strongly following the debate here about unused capacity in the remand wing of Cardiff prison. The basic responsibility for this, held by the Home Office, is then carried on by the National Asylum Seekers Service, which is a Home Office department, and it deals directly with Welsh local authorities. Local authorities have formed a consortium led by Newport County Borough Council, representing all Welsh local authorities with the exception of Cardiff. Cardiff is a kind of one-council consortium that has its own policy. We expect there to be a modest dispersal of asylum seekers into Wales where there is suitable infrastructure—whether religious or economic—to cope with their requirements during the next year.

Er nad ydym yn uniongyrchol gyfrifol am hyn, yr ydym wedi cyfleu ein teimladau’n eithaf cryf yn dilyn y ddadl yma ynghylch y lle nas defnyddir yn adain remand carchar Caerdydd. Caiff y cyfrifoldeb dros hyn, a ddelir gan y Swyddfa Gartref, ei barhau gan y Gwasanaeth Ceiswyr Lloches Cenedlaethol, sydd yn un o adrannau’r Swyddfa Gartref, ac mae’n delio’n uniongyrchol ag awdurdodau lleol yng Nghymru. Mae awdurdodau lleol wedi ffurfio consortiwm o dan arweiniad Cyngor Bwrdeistref Sirol Casnewydd, yn cynrychioli pob awdurdodau lleol yng Nghymru ac eithrio Caerdydd. Mae Caerdydd yn fath o gonsortiwm un-cyngor gyda’i bolisi ei hun. Disgwyliwn y caiff ceiswyr lloches eu gwasgaru’n gymedrol yng Nghymru lle ceir isadeiledd addas—boed yn grefyddol neu’n economaidd—i ymdopi â’u gofynion yn ystod y flwyddyn nesaf.

System Amddiffyn Taflegrau Genedlaethol yr Unol Daleithiau

The US National Missile Defence System

C4 Rhodri Glyn Thomas siaradwyd yn Gymraeg t. 10

Q4 Rhodri Glyn Thomas spoken in Welsh p. 10

A yw Prif Weinidog Cymru wedi cael trafodaethau gydag Ysgrifennydd Gwladol Cymru ynghylch system amddiffyn taflegrau genedlaethol yr Unol Daleithiau, son of star wars, a’i goblygiadau i Gymru? (OAQ9874)

Has the First Minister had any discussions with the Secretary of State for Wales regarding son of star wars, the US national missile defence system, and its implications for Wales? (OAQ9874)

Rhodri Morgan Prif Weinidog Cymru siaradwyd yn Gymraeg t. 10

Rhodri Morgan The First Minister spoken in Welsh p. 10

Nag ydwyf. Nid wyf wedi trafod y mater hwn gyda’r Arlywydd Bush nag unrhyw un arall [AELODAU CEIDWADOL Y CYNULLIAD: ‘O.’] Mae William Hague wedi gwneud hynny—yn rhy gyflym yn fy marn i. Clywais am y berthynas arbennig rhwng Prydain Fawr a’r Unol Daleithiau, ond ni chredaf ei bod yn addas i arweinydd plaid, fel William Hague, geisio crafu ei ffordd i fod yn ffefryn gydag Arlywydd newydd yr Unol Daleithiau drwy ddweud—

No. I have not discussed this issue with President Bush nor anyone else [CONSERVATIVE ASSEMBLY MEMBERS: ‘Oh.’] William Hague has done so—too quickly in my view. I have heard of the special relationship between Great Britain and the United States, but I do not think that it is right for a party leader, such as William Hague, to try and crawl into the new President of the United States’ favour by saying—

Dafydd Elis-Thomas Y Llywydd siaradwyd yn Gymraeg t. 10

Dafydd Elis-Thomas The Presiding Officer spoken in Welsh p. 10

Trefn, Brif Weinidog, Nid yw’r cwestiwn yn sôn am y Blaid Geidwadol.

Order, First Minister. This question does not concern the Conservative Party.

Rhodri Morgan Prif Weinidog Cymru siaradwyd yn Gymraeg t. 10

Rhodri Morgan The First Minister spoken in Welsh p. 10

Yr wyf yn derbyn hynny. Ond yr oeddwn am wneud y gymhariaeth. Nid wyf wedi cynnig bod safleoedd yn dod yn rhan o’r system y mae Bush, yn ôl y sôn, eisiau ei sefydlu, fel y gwnaeth William Hague ar ran Prydain Fawr gyfan.

I accept that. However, I wanted to make the comparison. I have not proposed to make any sites part of the system that Bush, allegedly, wishes to establish, as William Hague did on behalf of the whole of Great Britain.

Rhodri Glyn Thomas siaradwyd yn Gymraeg t. 10

Rhodri Glyn Thomas spoken in Welsh p. 10

Nid yw’r cwestiwn yn ymwneud â’r Arlywydd Bush chwaith. Gofynnais gwestiwn ynglŷn â’r trafodaethau gydag Ysgrifennydd Gwladol Cymru. Yr wyf am atgoffa’r Prif Weinidog am y ddadl ddiweddar ar y mater yn Nhŷ’r Arglwyddi. Dywedodd Syr Charles Guthrie fod y system hon yn arbennig o ddrudfawr ac os oeddem am ddod yn rhan ohoni, byddai’n rhaid penderfynu beth i’w hepgor. Gallaf eich sicrhau y bydd Plaid Cymru yn gwrthwynebu unrhyw ymgais i ddod yn rhan o’r system hon a bydd y polisi hwn yn rhan o’n maniffesto. Sut y mae’r Prif Weinidog yn bwriadu cynnal traddodiad cyfoethog Cymru o wrthwynebu’r math hwn o arfogi, a gyhoeddwyd yn glir yn y datganiad ar Gymru ddi-niwclear?

This question has nothing to do with President Bush either. I asked about the discussions with the Secretary of State for Wales. I will remind the First Minister that there was a debate on this issue in the House of Lords recently. Sir Charles Guthrie said that this system would be particularly costly and if we were to become a part of it, we would have to decide what to exclude. I assure you that Plaid Cymru will reject any efforts to become a part of this system. How does the First Minister intend to support Wales’s proud tradition of opposing such armament, which was clearly declared in the statement on a nuclear-free Wales?

Rhodri Morgan Prif Weinidog Cymru siaradwyd yn Gymraeg t. 11

Rhodri Morgan The First Minister spoken in Welsh p. 11

Ni allaf ond ailadrodd yn gliriach yr hyn a ddywedais eisoes. Nid wyf yn bwriadu gwneud cynnig ar ran Cymru a ddywed fod gennym safleoedd a fyddai’n addas ar gyfer y system newydd y mae’r Arlywydd Bush, yn ôl y sôn, am ei chyflwyno ar ran yr Unol Daleithiau. Efallai y bydd angen safleoedd yn Greenland a Phrydain Fawr ar gyfer dilyn trywydd ar y system radar. Hyd y gwn i, nid ydynt wedi gorffen cynllunio’r system ac felly ni wyddant eto a oes angen tir neu adeiladau y tu allan i’r Unol Daleithiau. Nid yw’r cwestiwn hwn yn codi heddiw. Pe bai’n codi, hyd y gwyddom, ni fyddai galwad am gyfleusterau o’r fath yng Nghymru.

I can only repeat more clearly what I have already said. I do not intend to make any proposals on behalf of Wales to say that we have sites that would be suitable for the new system that President Bush allegedly wishes to introduce on behalf of the United States. He may need sites in Greenland and in Britain to track the radar system. As far as I know, they have not finished designing the system and they do not know yet whether they will need any land or buildings outside the United States. The question does not arise today. If it were to arise, as far as we know, there would be no call for such facilities in Wales.

Jonathan Morgan spoken in English p. 11

Jonathan Morgan siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 11

Do you agree that we must not take lessons on our national security from members of political parties who have close allegiances with organisations that wanted to disarm Britain at the height of the cold war?

A gytunwch na ddylem gael ein dysgu ar ein diogelwch cenedlaethol gan aelodau o bleidiau gwleidyddol sydd â chysylltiadau agos gyda sefydliadau a oedd yn awyddus i ddiarfogi Prydain ar anterth y rhyfel oer?

Rhodri Morgan The First Minister spoken in English p. 11

Rhodri Morgan Prif Weinidog Cymru siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 11

Regardless of people’s views about disarmament, the question is about the meaning of the special relationship. The Conservatives must be aware that people were sickened by the sight of William Hague trying to crawl his way into the favour of the new administration. There was no need for it; it was premature. He was not in a position to do anything about it and we do not know whether facilities will be needed in Wales or even the UK.

Er gwaethaf barn pobl ynghylch diarfogi, mae’r cwestiwn yn ymwneud ag ystyr y berthynas arbennig. Rhaid bod y Ceidwadwyr yn ymwybodol bod pobl wedi hen alaru gweld William Hague yn ceisio crafu ei ffordd i ffafriaeth y weinyddiaeth newydd. Nid oedd angen hynny; yr oedd yn gynamserol. Nid oedd mewn sefyllfa i wneud unrhyw beth am y sefyllfa ac ni wyddom a fydd angen cyfleusterau yng Nghymru neu hyd yn oed y DU.

Dafydd Elis-Thomas The Presiding Officer spoken in English p. 11

Dafydd Elis-Thomas Y Llywydd siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 11

Order. The First Minister is not responsible for the Leader of the Opposition in Westminster.

Trefn. Nid yw Prif Weinidog Cymru yn gyfrifol am Arweinydd yr Wrthblaid yn San Steffan.

Rod Richards spoken in English p. 11

Rod Richards siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 11

Will you ask the Secretary of State for Wales to inform the Prime Minister of the widespread support in this Assembly for President Bush’s policy on son of star wars? If you were to count the Prime Minister’s support in the Labour Party and the Conservative support in the Chamber, son of star wars would have a majority. Will you ask the Secretary of State to convey that to the Prime Minister?

A wnewch chi ofyn i Ysgrifennydd Gwladol Cymru hysbysu’r Prif Weinidog o’r gefnogaeth eang yn y Cynulliad hwn i bolisi’r Arlywydd Bush ar fab ‘star wars’? Pe baech yn cyfrif cefnogaeth y Prif Weinidog yn y Blaid Lafur a chefnogaeth y Ceidwadwyr yn y Siambr, byddai gan fab ‘star wars’ fwyafrif. A ofynnwch i’r Ysgrifennydd Gwladol gyfleu hynny i’r Prif Weinidog?

Rhodri Morgan The First Minister spoken in English p. 12

Rhodri Morgan Prif Weinidog Cymru siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 12

Son of star wars has not yet been designed. Therefore, we have no idea what its implications could be for Europe. To use what is, perhaps, an inappropriate pun, you have, once again, jumped the gun. I am afraid that that is what I would expect from you. We are waiting to know—I have criticised other politicians for not doing so—what facilities will be required outside the US and whether that will have any implications for Wales and this Assembly. Rod seems to want this to have implications for Wales so that he can leap in there and say, ‘yes, yes have your facilities here, there or elsewhere in Wales’. We do not know whether the system requires any facilities outside the US because it has not been designed yet. What is the point of making these overtures to President Bush as the leader of your former party has done already?

Nid yw mab ‘star wars’ wedi’i gynllunio eto. Felly, nid oes gennym unrhyw syniad beth fydd ei oblygiadau i Ewrop. Gan ddefnyddio hen ymadrodd, yr ydych, unwaith eto, wedi rhoi’r cert o flaen y ceffyl. Mae’n debyg mai dyna y byddwn yn ei ddisgwyl gennych chi. Yr ydym yn aros i wybod—yr wyf wedi beirniadu gwleidyddion eraill am beidio â gwneud hynny—pa gyfleusterau fyddai ar gael y tu allan i’r UD ac a fyddai unrhyw oblygiadau i Gymru a’r Cynulliad hwn. Ymddengys bod Rod yn awyddus y bydd goblygiadau i Gymru yn sgîl hyn fel y gall neidio i mewn a dweud, ‘gallwch, gallwch gael eich cyfleusterau yma, acw neu rywle arall yng Nghymru.’ Ni wyddom a yw’r system yn gofyn am unrhyw gyfleusterau y tu allan i’r DU gan nad yw wedi’i chynllunio eto. Beth yw’r pwynt agor trafodaethau ag Arlywydd Bush fel y gwnaeth arweinydd eich cyn blaid chi eisoes?

Datblygu Polisïau

Policy Development

Q5 Helen Mary Jones spoken in English p. 12

C5 Helen Mary Jones siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 12

What steps has the First Minister taken to ensure that forward planning plays an essential role in the Assembly’s policy development? (OAQ9881)

Sut mae Prif Weinidog Cymru wedi mynd ati i sicrhau bod cynllunio at y dyfodol yn chwarae rhan hanfodol yn y gwaith o ddatblygu polisïau’r Cynulliad? (OAQ9881)

Rhodri Morgan The First Minister spoken in English p. 12

Rhodri Morgan Prif Weinidog Cymru siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 12

This matter has been raised many times. I made a statement on it in Plenary on 21 November 2000. It was also discussed in Plenary on 14 December 2000 during the debate on the programme for Government, which reflects the legislative programme and the non-legislative Plenary work programme for the National Assembly up to July 2001. Plans can be rendered less relevant by external events such as the outbreak of foot and mouth disease, the floods or the Corus announcement. Never has there been a period in Welsh politics when Harold Macmillan’s famous statement about ‘events, dear boy, events’ has been more relevant than over the last few months, as external events for which you cannot plan suddenly overtake the politics of the day.

Codwyd y mater hwn droeon. Gwneuthum ddatganiad arno yn y Cyfarfod Llawn ar 21 Tachwedd 2000. Fe’i trafodwyd hefyd yn y Cyfarfod Llawn ar 14 Rhagfyr 2000 yn ystod y ddadl ar raglen waith y Llywodraeth, sydd yn adlewyrchu’r rhaglen ddeddfwriaethol a rhaglen waith anneddfwriaethol y Cyfarfod Llawn ar gyfer y Cynulliad Cenedlaethol hyd at Orffennaf 2001. Gall digwyddiadau allanol wneud cynlluniau’n llai perthnasol fel yr achos o glwy’r traed a’r genau, y llifogydd neu gyhoeddiad Corus. Ni fu erioed gyfnod yn hanes gwleidyddiaeth Cymru pan fu datganiad enwog Harold Macmillan ynglŷn ag ‘events, dear boy, events’ yn fwy perthansol na thros yr ychydig fisoedd diwethaf, gan fod digwyddiadau allanol na allwch gynllunio ar eu cyfer yn goddiweddyd gwleidyddiaeth y dydd.

Helen Mary Jones spoken in English p. 13

Helen Mary Jones siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 13

In light of recent events and today’s announcement about the continuing pay gap between women and men in Wales, what is the Executive doing in the forward planning process to ensure that that pay gap, particularly in the public sector, for which the Assembly has a great responsibility, is closed in the medium term?

Yng ngoleuni digwyddiadau diweddar a’r cyhoeddiad heddiw ynghylch y bwlch cyflog parhaus rhwng merched a dynion yng Nghymru, beth y mae’r Weithrediaeth yn ei wneud yn y broses flaengynllunio i sicrhau y caeir y bwlch cyflog hwnnw, yn arbennig yn y sector cyhoeddus, y mae gan y Cynulliad gyfrifoldeb mawr drosto, yn y tymor canolig?

Rhodri Morgan The First Minister spoken in English p. 13

Rhodri Morgan Prif Weinidog Cymru siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 13

Equal pay for equal work and work of equal worth is a major issue, particularly for an area such as Wales, which has moved rapidly from being dependent on traditionally-male heavy industry to a much more diverse economic pattern. Helen Mary mentioned the public sector. There are longstanding legal cases between speech therapists and the national health service. Speech therapists—a profession that is overwhelmingly female—are trying to demonstrate that they are paid far lower than other professions. For example, the work of psychologists, who tend to be male, is similar but the pay may be three times higher than that of speech therapists. This is a major issue for the public sector. However, in Wales’s case, the speed with which the transition from a male-dominated employment pattern to a 50:50 situation, or even one that is slightly over-balanced towards women, has placed huge stresses and strains on pay systems and on society at large.

Mae cyflog cyfartal am waith cyfartal a gwaith o werth cyfartal yn fater pwysig, yn arbennig i ardal fel Cymru, sydd wedi symud yn eithaf cyflym o fod yn ddibynnol ar ddiwydiant trwm a oedd yn waith a wnaethpwyd gan ddynion yn draddodiadol i batrwm economaidd llawer mwy amrywiol. Crybwyllodd Helen Mary y sector cyhoeddus. Mae achosion cyfreithiol hirfaith rhwng therapyddion lleferydd a’r gwasanaeth iechyd gwladol. Mae therapyddion lleferydd—proffesiwn lle mae’r mwyafrif llethol yn ferched—yn ceisio dangos y cânt gyflogau llawer is na phroffesiynau eraill. Er enghraifft, mae gwaith seicolegwyr, sydd yn tueddu i fod yn ddynion, yn debyg ond gall y cyflog fod dair gwaith yn uwch na therapyddion lleferydd. Mae hwn yn fater pwysig i’r sector cyhoeddus. Fodd bynnag, yn achos Cymru, mae cyflymder y newid o batrwm cyflogaeth a oedd yn wrywaidd yn bennaf i sefyllfa 50:50, neu hyd yn oed un sydd ag ychydig o orduedd tuag at ferched, wedi rhoi cryn bwysau a straen ar y systemau talu ac ar gymdeithas yn gyffredinol.

Kirsty Williams spoken in English p. 13

Kirsty Williams siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 13

Do you agree that forward planning is also vital in establishing good relationships with our partners in government in Wales, especially local government? Are you concerned that projects are sometimes jeopardised because of a lack of early forward planning and communication by the Assembly? For instance, Powys County Council was not made aware of Extending Entitlement money until after the major budget planning process had started. As a result, that project will not receive all of the money that the Assembly was prepared to allocate to it.

A gytunwch fod blaengynllunio hefyd yn hanfodol wrth sefydlu cysylltiadau da gyda’n partneriaid yn y llywodraeth yng Nghymru, yn enwedig llywodraeth leol? A yw’n peri pryder ichi fod prosiectau’n cael eu peryglu oherwydd diffyg blaengynllunio cynnar a chyfathrebu gan y Cynulliad? Er enghraifft, ni wnaethpwyd Cyngor Sir Powys yn ymwybodol o arian Ymestyn Hawliau tan ar ôl i’r broses cynllunio cyllideb fawr ddechrau. O ganlyniad, ni fydd y prosiect hwnnw yn derbyn yr holl arian yr oedd y Cynulliad yn barod i’w ddyrannu iddo.

Rhodri Morgan The First Minister spoken in English p. 14

Rhodri Morgan Prif Weinidog Cymru siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 14

I agree with the principle that local government is one of our partners. In general, it possibly works better in Wales than in other parts of the United Kingdom. Local government is genuinely our partner in Wales and we see it as an equal partner in delivering health and social services. A hallmark of the new health policy is that it tries to break down the sometimes artificial distinction between health and social services. It is a tragedy if problems arise because a local authority did not receive information in sufficient time to submit a bid. I would be grateful if Kirsty could give me more details of that in writing. I will then take the matter up with the appropriate officials to find out why Powys County Council did not receive the information in time.

Cytunaf â’r egwyddor bod llywodraeth leol yn un o’n partneriaid. Yn gyffredinol, mae, o bosibl, yn gweithio’n well yng Nghymru nag mewn rhannau eraill o’r Deyrnas Unedig. Llywodraeth leol mewn gwirionedd yw ein partner yng Nghymru ac fe’i gwelwn fel partner cyfartal wrth gyflwyno iechyd a gwasanaethau cymdeithasol. Un o nodweddion y polisi iechyd newydd yw ei fod yn ceisio cael gwared ar y gwahaniaeth, sydd yn artiffisial weithiau, rhwng iechyd a gwasanaethau cymdeithasol. Mae’n drasiedi os oes problemau’n codi gan na chafodd awdurdod lleol wybodaeth mewn da bryd i gyflwyno cynnig. Byddwn yn ddiolchgar pe gallai Kirsty roi mwy o fanylion i mi am hynny yn ysgrifenedig. Yna byddaf yn codi’r mater gyda’r swyddogion priodol er mwyn darganfod pam na chafodd Cyngor Sir Powys yr wybodaeth mewn pryd.

Nick Bourne spoken in English p. 14

Nick Bourne siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 14

Forward planning of rural development policies is also vital. What representations has the administration made about New Labour’s policy on small and rural post offices and automated credit transfer, which is killing off many post offices throughout rural Wales, as Members will be aware? Also, what progress has been made on the small schools initiative, to which reference is made in the partnership document?

Mae blaengynllunio polisïau datblygu gwledig hefyd yn holl bwysig. Pa sylwadau a wnaeth y weinyddiaeth ynghylch polisi Llafur Newydd ar swyddfeydd post bach a gwledig a throsglwyddiad credyd awtomataidd, sydd yn lladd nifer o swyddfeydd post ledled Cymru wledig, fel y bydd yr Aelodau yn ymwybodol? Hefyd, pa gynnydd a wnaethpwyd ar y fenter ysgolion bach, y cyfeirir ati yn y ddogfen bartneriaeth?

Rhodri Morgan The First Minister spoken in English p. 14

Rhodri Morgan Prif Weinidog Cymru siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 14

I will write to Nick regarding progress on the small schools initiative. There is much close working on the post offices issue between Assembly officials and officials in the Department of Trade and Industry who are involved in experiments to give rural post offices a role in assisting the process of e-government and assisting the public to learn to use e-commerce when necessary to make it much easier to apply for driving licences and pensions and to make benefits queries. The pilot experiment for the extension of rural post offices is currently being carried out in Leicestershire, as it contains a good range of urban areas, large outlying council estates, suburban areas and quite remote rural areas, although not as remote as some in Wales. That pilot is ongoing and we will closely observe it to see what lessons we can learn in terms of using e-business to conduct business between the public and government. There are also lessons to be learnt through individual learning accounts, in terms of using rural post office facilities to teach people how to use a computer. That is good for the post office, good for the retention of post offices in rural areas and good for the individuals who benefit from it.

Byddaf yn ysgrifennu at Nick ynghylch y cynnydd ar y fenter ysgolion bach. Gwneir llawer o waith manwl ar fater y swyddfeydd post rhwng swyddogion y Cynulliad a swyddogion yn yr Adran Masnach a Diwydiant sydd yn cymryd rhan mewn arbrofion i roi rôl i swyddfeydd post gwledig gynorthwyo yn y broses o e-lywodraeth a chynorthwyo’r cyhoedd i ddysgu i ddefnyddio e-fasnach pan fo angen er mwyn ei gwneud yn llawer haws i wneud cais am drwyddedau gyrru a phensiynau ac i wneud ymholiadau am fudd-daliadau. Mae’r arbrawf peilot ar gyfer ehangu swyddfeydd post gwledig yn cael ei gynnal yn Swydd Gaerlŷr ar hyn o bryd, gan ei bod yn cynnwys ystod dda o ardaloedd trefol, ystadau cyngor mawr ar gyrion y dref, ardaloedd maestrefol ac ardaloedd gwledig eithaf anghysbell, ond nid mor anghysbell â rhai rhannau o Gymru. Mae’r peilot hwnnw yn parhau a byddwn yn ei oruchwylio’n fanwl i weld pa wersi y gallwn eu dysgu o ran defnyddio e-fusnes i gynnal busnes rhwng y cyhoedd a’r llywodraeth. Mae yna hefyd wersi i’w dysgu drwy gyfrifon dysgu unigol, yn nhermau defnyddio cyfleusterau swyddfeydd post gwledig i ddysgu pobl sut i ddefnyddio cyfrifiadur. Mae hynny’n dda ar gyfer swyddfa’r post, yn dda er mwyn cadw swyddfeydd post mewn ardaloedd gwledig ac yn dda i’r unigolion sydd yn elwa ohono.

Nick Bourne spoken in English p. 15

Nick Bourne siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 15

Thank you for your comments on the post offices. I am grateful that you will write to me on the schools policy, which is vital and mentioned in the partnership agreement. However, what is particularly vital is the fact that we need national guidelines on size and some sort of cushion when a closure is announced, because if a school closure is in the pipeline in less than four years, it creates a blight and parents understandably do not want to send their children to that school.

Diolch am eich sylwadau ar y swyddfeydd post. Yr wyf yn ddiolchgar y byddwch yn ysgrifennu ataf ar y polisi ysgolion, sydd yn holl bwysig ac a grybwyllir yn y cytundeb partneriaeth. Fodd bynnag, yr hyn sydd yn arbennig o bwysig yw’r ffaith bod angen canllawiau cenedlaethol ar faint arnom a rhyw fath o glustog pan gyhoeddir bod ysgol yn cau, oherwydd os bwriedir cau ysgol mewn llai na phedair blynedd, mae’n creu malltod ac nid yw rhieni am anfon eu plant i’r ysgol honno, a hynny’n ddealladwy.

Rhodri Morgan The First Minister spoken in English p. 15

Rhodri Morgan Prif Weinidog Cymru siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 15

The rural schools issue is a difficult one because it is ultimately up to the local authority to decide on the best way to deliver the national curriculum. As soon as the Government goes down the road of having a national curriculum—and the Government that Nick supported is responsible for that—it loses a degree of flexibility, which tends to disadvantage the small, rural school. Consequently, the big issue for the local authority is whether that school can deliver the national curriculum. Sometimes local authorities decide that a particular school cannot do so and must therefore be merged with another school. That is the fundamental problem, which has occurred since around 1987. We can issue guidelines, but ultimately the local authorities make the decisions as to whether they can guarantee parents that individual schools can deliver the national curriculum.

Mae ysgolion gwledig yn fater anodd oherwydd yn y pen draw cyfrifoldeb yr awdurdod lleol yw penderfynu ar y ffordd orau o gyflwyno’r cwricwlwm cenedlaethol. Cyn gynted ag y bydd y Llywodraeth yn dechrau dilyn y trywydd o gael cwricwlwm cenedlaethol—a’r Llywodraeth y gwnaeth Nick ei chefnogi sydd yn gyfrifol am hynny—mae’n colli rhywfaint o hyblygrwydd, sydd yn tueddu i roi ysgolion bach, gwledig o dan anfantais. O ganlyniad, y mater pwysig i’r awdurdod lleol yw a all yr ysgol honno gyflwyno’r cwricwlwm cenedlaethol. Weithiau bydd awdurdodau lleol yn penderfynu na all ysgol benodol wneud hynny a bod yn rhaid iddi felly gael ei huno ag ysgol arall. Dyna’r broblem sylfaenol, sydd wedi digwydd ers tua 1987. Gallwn gyhoeddi canllawiau, ond, yn y pen draw, awdurdodau lleol sydd yn penderfynu a allant warantu i rieni y gall ysgolion unigol gyflwyno’r cwricwlwm cenedlaethol.

Mynd i’r Afael ag Anfantais Gymdeithasol

Tackling Social Disadvantage

Q6 Jocelyn Davies spoken in English p. 16

C6 Jocelyn Davies siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 16

Will the First Minister make a statement on how the Assembly has succeeded in tackling social disadvantage as outlined in ‘Betterwales.com’? (OAQ9885)

A wnaiff Prif Weinidog Cymru ddatganiad ar sut mae’r Cynulliad wedi llwyddo i fynd i’r afael ag anfantais gymdeithasol fel y’i amlinellwyd yn ‘Gwellcymru.com’? (OAQ9885)

Rhodri Morgan The First Minister spoken in English p. 16

Rhodri Morgan Prif Weinidog Cymru siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 16

The timing of your question is inconvenient given that we will be discussing this in Plenary, as you may know, when we debate the social inclusion annual report on 8 March.

Mae amseriad eich cwestiwn yn anghyfleus o gofio y byddwn yn trafod hyn yn y Cyfarfod Llawn, fel y gwyddoch o bosibl, pan fyddwn yn cael dadl ar adroddiad blynyddol cynhwysiant cymdeithasol ar 8 Mawrth.

Jocelyn Davies spoken in English p. 16

Jocelyn Davies siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 16

Social disadvantage is increasing with the loss of 5,000 jobs in Wales since 1 January. Last week, you said that you could not do anything about those losses. Who do you think would be able to do so?

Mae anfantais gymdeithasol yn cynyddu yn sgîl colli 5,000 o swyddi yng Nghymru ers 1 Ionawr. Yr wythnos diwethaf, dywedasoch na allech wneud unrhyw beth am y colledion hynny. Pwy yn eich barn chi fyddai’n gallu gwneud hynny?

Rhodri Morgan The First Minister spoken in English p. 16

Rhodri Morgan Prif Weinidog Cymru siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 16

I am not responsible for The Western Mail’s headlines. That was a completely absurd headline. What I said was that neither the President of the United States—if I can mention that politician—nor the Prime Minister of Britain, nor I could guarantee that, while we were the politicians in charge of the administration, no factory would close down. There were no quotation marks around that headline, which I hope that you will have noticed. If you consider the economy, there are over 4,000 more jobs in Wales now than there were 12 months ago. That is because there have been 8,000 net job losses in manufacturing, which is more than outweighed by the creation of around 12,000 non-manufacturing jobs in areas such as the service industry, construction and so on. I am sure that you will join me in welcoming the fact that there are around 5,000 more jobs in Wales now than there were 12 months ago.

Nid fi sydd yn gyfrifol am benawdau The Western Mail. Yr oedd hynny’n bennawd cwbl hurt. Yr hyn a ddywedais oedd na allai Arlywydd yr Unol Daleithiau—os gallaf grybwyll y gwleidydd hwnnw—na Phrif Weinidog Prydain, na minnau warantu na fyddai unrhyw ffatri yn cau tra byddem yn wleidyddion â gofal dros y weinyddiaeth. Nid oedd dyfynnodau o amgylch y pennawd hwnnw, a gobeithiaf ichi sylwi ar hynny. Os ystyriwch yr economi, mae mwy na 4,000 yn fwy o swyddi yng Nghymru yn awr nag yr oedd 12 mis yn ôl. Mae hynny oherwydd y collwyd 8,000 o swyddi mewn gweithgynhyrchu, ac mae creu tua 12,000 o swyddi nad ydynt yn swyddi gweithgynhyrchu mewn meysydd fel y diwydiant gwasanaeth, adeiladu ac ati wedi mwy na gwrthbwyso hynny. Yr wyf yn siŵr yr ymunwch â mi i groesawu’r ffaith bod tua 5,000 yn fwy o swyddi yng Nghymru yn awr nag yr oedd 12 mis yn ôl.

Val Feld spoken in English p. 16

Val Feld siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 16

Will you join me in welcoming the Child Poverty Action Group’s report published yesterday, which estimated that Labour’s tax and benefits policies will have halved child poverty in five years? Do you agree that it is important that this work on income at central Government level is complemented by a sustained investment in education, health and social services and housing, as is planned in our Communities First programme?

A wnewch chi ymuno â mi i groesawu adroddiad y Grŵp Gweithredu ar Dlodi ymhlith Plant a gyhoeddwyd ddoe, sydd yn amcangyfrif y bydd polisïau treth a budd-daliadau Llafur wedi hanneru tlodi ymhlith plant mewn pum mlynedd? A gytunwch ei bod yn bwysig bod y gwaith hwn ar incwm ar lefel Llywodraeth ganolog yn cael ei ategu gan fuddsoddiad parhaus mewn addysg, iechyd a gwasanaethau cymdeithasol a thai, fel y cynllunir yn ein rhaglen Rhoi Cymunedau yn Gyntaf?

Rhodri Morgan The First Minister spoken in English p. 17

Rhodri Morgan Prif Weinidog Cymru siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 17

I am grateful for that observation because it is important that we are aware that the less well-off a region or small nation is in the UK’s family of nations, the more significant items like the statutory minimum wage, the working families tax credit or the child tax credit become. You are not eligible for the latter if you earn over £40,000 per year. There are far fewer people in Wales who earn more than that and who will, therefore, not benefit from it than there are in the south-east of England. All those measures tend to have a regional bias towards the less well-off parts of the UK, above all north-east England, Wales and Northern Ireland.

Yr wyf yn ddiolchgar am y sylw hwnnw oherwydd mae’n bwysig ein bod yn ymwybodol po waethaf ei byd yw rhanbarth neu genedl fechan yn nheulu cenhedloedd y DU, y mwyaf o bwys a roddir ar eitmau fel yr isafswm cyflog statudol, y credyd treth i deuluoedd sydd yn gweithio neu’r credyd treth i blant. Nid ydych yn gymwys i dderbyn yr olaf os ydych yn ennill dros £40,000 y flwyddyn. Mae llawer llai o bobl yng Nghymru yn ennill mwy na hynny, ac na fyddant, felly, yn elwa ohono, nag yn ne-ddwyrain Lloegr. Mae gan yr holl fesurau hynny duedd ranbarthol tuag at rannau o’r DU sydd yn llai cefnog, sef gogledd-ddwyrain Lloegr, Cymru a Gogledd Iwerddon yn bennaf.

Adroddiad yr Archwilydd Cyffredinol ar y Cynulliad

The Auditor General’s Report on the Assembly

Q7 William Graham spoken in English p. 17

C7 William Graham siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 17

Will the First Minister make a statement on discussions he has held with the Secretary of State for Wales concerning the Auditor General’s report on the National Assembly for Wales? (OAQ9876)

A wnaiff Prif Weinidog Cymru ddatganiad ar unrhyw drafodaethau y mae wedi’u cael gydag Ysgrifennydd Gwladol Cymru ynghylch adroddiad yr Archwilydd Cyffredinol ar Gynulliad Cenedlaethol Cymru? (OAQ9876)

Rhodri Morgan The First Minister spoken in English p. 17

Rhodri Morgan Prif Weinidog Cymru siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 17

I have not discussed this matter with the Secretary of State for Wales, but it is a relevant question as the Audit Committee will be taking evidence on the Auditor General’s report on 29 March. As soon as the Committee submits its report to me, under provisions of Standing Order No.12, the Cabinet has 28 days in which to lay a formal response before the Assembly. I am pleased that the Auditor General gave the accounts an unqualified opinion and I am sure that Members will welcome that.

Nid wyf wedi trafod y mater hwn gydag Ysgrifennydd Gwladol Cymru, ond mae’n gwestiwn perthnasol gan y bydd y Pwyllgor Archwilio yn cymryd tystiolaeth ar adroddiad yr Archwilydd Cyffredinol ar 29 Mawrth. Cyn gynted ag y bydd y Pwyllgor yn cyflwyno ei adroddiad i mi, o dan ddarpariaethau Rheol Sefydlog Rhif 12, mae gan y Cabinet 28 diwrnod i gyflwyno ymateb ffurfiol gerbron y Cynulliad. Yr wyf yn falch y rhoddodd yr Archwilydd Cyffredinol farn ddiamod ar y cyfrifon ac yr wyf yn siŵr y bydd yr Aelodau yn croesawu hynny.

William Graham spoken in English p. 17

William Graham siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 17

Do you agree that the Secretary of State for Wales and yourself are responsible for ensuring that the correct image rather than the wrong impression of Wales is portrayed to the rest of the world? Do you also agree that you should both show that you have a clear plan to tackle the issues that arise from reports such as that of the Auditor General and, perhaps more particularly, the report concerning Flintshire County Council?

A gytunwch fod Ysgrifennydd Gwladol Cymru a chithau yn gyfrifol am sicrhau y caiff y ddelwedd gywir o Gymru ei chyfleu i weddill y byd yn hytrach na’r argraff anghywir? A gytunwch hefyd y dylai’r ddau ohonoch ddangos bod gennych gynllun pendant i fynd i’r afael â’r materion sydd yn deillio o adroddiadau fel adroddiad yr Archwilydd Cyffredinol ac, efallai yn fwy penodol, yr adroddiad ynghylch Cyngor Sir y Fflint?

Rhodri Morgan The First Minister spoken in English p. 18

Rhodri Morgan Prif Weinidog Cymru siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 18

I am not sure that I should discuss the Flintshire County Council issue because that is a different area of the Auditor General’s work. We cannot be held responsible for that report’s content. However, I know that Edwina Hart had lengthy discussions with Flintshire County Council about its contents and recommendations. As regards the Auditor General’s reports on the Assembly in its first year, namely 1999-00, it was a unique year, given the transfer of functions to the Assembly and the need to prepare part-year accounts for the old Welsh Office and for the Assembly. A conversion to a resource accounting basis also took place in the same year. In light of those additional difficulties I am more than pleased that the Auditor General gave us a pretty clean bill of health.

Nid wyf yn siŵr a ddylwn drafod mater Cyngor Sir y Fflint gan fod hynny’n faes gwahanol o waith yr Archwilydd Cyffredinol. Ni ellir ein dal yn gyfrifol am gynnwys yr adroddiad hwnnw. Fodd bynnag, gwn fod Edwina Hart wedi cael trafodaethau maith gyda Chyngor Sir y Fflint ynghylch ei gynnwys a’i argymhellion. O ran adroddiadau’r Archwilydd Cyffredinol ar y Cynulliad yn ei flwyddyn gyntaf, sef 1999-00, yr oedd yn flwyddyn unigryw, o gofio y trosglwyddwyd swyddogaethau i’r Cynulliad a’r angen i baratoi cyfrifon am ran o’r flwyddyn ar gyfer yr hen Swyddfa Gymreig ac ar gyfer y Cynulliad. Digwyddodd newid i sail cyfrifo adnoddau hefyd yn yr un flwyddyn. Yng ngoleuni’r anawsterau ychwanegol hynny yr wyf yn fwy na balch i’r Archwilydd Cyffredinol ein cymeradwyo.

Karen Sinclair spoken in English p. 18

Karen Sinclair siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 18

Following your discussions with the Secretary of State for Wales, are you able to clarify that there has been no underspend of the Welsh block grant? Do you agree that the media has misunderstood the difference between the Welsh block grant and the various demand-led benefit and subsidies expenditure?

Yn dilyn eich trafodaethau gydag Ysgrifennydd Gwladol Cymru, a allwch gadarnhau na fu unrhyw danwario ar grant bloc Cymru? A gytunwch fod y cyfryngau wedi camddeall y gwahaniaeth rhwng grant bloc Cymru a’r amrywiol wariant ar fudd-daliadau a chymorthdaliadau yn seiliedig ar alw?

Rhodri Morgan The First Minister spoken in English p. 18

Rhodri Morgan Prif Weinidog Cymru siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 18

Yes. I am sure that this matter will surface in a future Auditor General’s report, but it is a simple issue. An allegation has been irresponsibly flung around that we returned £41 million voluntarily to the Treasury in a John Redwood manner. That is unbelievable given that the matter was put to bed effectively by Edwina Hart in July 2000. That £41 million was never in our budget. It could never have been spent on hospitals, schools or anything else. It passes through our budget as sheep annual premium or as housing benefit claims paid to claimants in local authorities. It is not part of the block grant and cannot be spent on anything else. The budget was passed and we never had that £41 million from Brussels or from the Treasury in London. I believe that Plaid Cymru knew that before they made the allegation. It was an absurd attempt to divert attention from the Simon Glyn scandal.

Gwnaf. Yr wyf yn siŵr y daw’r mater hwn i’r amlwg mewn adroddiad gan yr Archwilydd Cyffredinol yn y dyfodol, ond mae’n fater syml. Taflwyd cyhuddiad yn anghyfrifol atom ein bod wedi dychwelyd £41 miliwn yn wirfoddol i’r Trysorlys fel y gwnaeth John Redwood. Mae hynny’n anghredadwy o gofio y rhoddwyd pen ar y mater, fwy neu lai, gan Edwina Hart ym mis Gorffennaf 2000. Nid oedd y £41 miliwn hwnnw erioed yn ein cyllideb. Ni ellid byth bod wedi’i wario ar ysbytai, ysgolion nag unrhyw beth arall. Aiff drwy ein cyllideb wrth i bremiwm blynyddol defaid neu geisiadau budd-dâl tai gael eu talu i geiswyr mewn awdurdodau lleol. Nid yw’n rhan o’r grant bloc ac ni ellir ei wario ar unrhyw beth arall. Cymeradwywyd y gyllideb ac ni chawsom erioed y £41 miliwn hwnnw o Frwsel neu gan y Trysorlys yn Llundain. Credaf y gwyddai Plaid Cymru hynny cyn iddynt wneud y cyhuddiad. Yr oedd yn ymdrech hurt i geisio tynnu sylw oddi ar sgandal Simon Glyn.

Janet Davies spoken in English p. 19

Janet Davies siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 19

I will return to the question and ask a supplementary on that rather than on superfluous issues. Given that this Assembly building is for the Government and Parliament for Wales, of Wales, and in Wales, do you believe that it is appropriate for you to hold discussions with the Secretary of State for Wales, as opposed to keeping him informed of the National Assembly’s decisions, its policy steering group and project boards, apart perhaps from allowing him to choose the colour of new paint for his office?

Dychwelaf at y cwestiwn a gofynnaf gwestiwn atodol ar hynny yn hytrach nag ar faterion arwynebol. O gofio mai adeilad ar gyfer Llywodraeth a Senedd i Gymru, o Gymru ac yng Nghymru yw’r Cynulliad hwn, a gredwch ei bod yn briodol ichi gynnal trafodaethau gydag Ysgrifennydd Gwladol Cymru, yn hytrach na’i hysbysu o benderfyniadau’r Cynulliad Cenedlaethol, ei grŵp llywio polisi a’i fyrddau prosiect, ar wahân i ganiatáu iddo ddewis lliw paent newydd ar gyfer ei swyddfa, o bosibl?

Rhodri Morgan The First Minister spoken in English p. 19

Rhodri Morgan Prif Weinidog Cymru siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 19

That is correct. In my answer to William Graham, I did not say that I had had any discussions with the Secretary of State for Wales on this matter. I do not disagree with anything that you said, Janet, and perhaps that you should have listened to the exchange between William and myself, rather than cast aspersions on Karen Sinclair’s question.

Mae hynny’n gywir. Yn fy ateb i William Graham, ni ddywedais i mi gael unrhyw drafodaethau gydag Ysgirfennydd Gwladol Cymru ar y mater hwn. Nid anghytunaf ag unrhyw beth a ddywedasoch, Janet, ac efallai y dylech fod wedi gwrando ar y sgwrs rhwng William a minnau, yn hytrach na bwrw sen ar gwestiwn Karen Sinclair.

Dafydd Elis-Thomas The Presiding Officer spoken in English p. 19

Dafydd Elis-Thomas Y Llywydd siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 19

Question 8 has been withdrawn.

Tynnwyd cwestiwn 8 yn ôl.

Gweinidogion Cabinet y Cynulliad

The Assembly’s Cabinet Ministers

Q9 Alun Cairns spoken in English p. 19

C9 Alun Cairns siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 19

Will the First Minister make a statement on whether he sets targets for, and achievement by, the Ministers in the Assembly Cabinet? (OAQ9891)

A wnaiff Prif Weinidog Cymru ddatganiad ar a yw’n gosod targedau ar gyfer y Gweinidogion yng Nghabinet y Cynulliad, ac a yw’r Gweinidogion yn eu cyflawni? (OAQ9891)

Rhodri Morgan The First Minister spoken in English p. 19

Rhodri Morgan Prif Weinidog Cymru siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 19

Disentangling the somewhat tortured grammar in your question, Alun, Cabinet Government is a collective process rather than an individual one. My colleagues and I take decisions together and abide by them.

Gan ddatgymalu’r ramadeg ystumiedig braidd yn eich cwestiwn, Alun, proses dorfol yw Llywodraeth Gabinet yn hytrach na phroses unigol. Gwna fy nghy-Aelodau a minnau benderfyniadau ar y cyd a glynwn atynt.

Alun Cairns spoken in English p. 19

Alun Cairns siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 19

I am grateful for that response. One of the key targets that you set was the commitment to reduce NHS waiting lists by 15,000 by March 2001. Do you believe that will be achieved? If not, why, and what action will you take against the Minister if she fails?

Yr wyf yn ddiolchgar am yr ymateb hwnnnw. Un o’r targedau allweddol a bennwyd gennych oedd yr ymrwymiad i gyflawni gostyngiad o 15,000 yn rhestrau aros yr NHS erbyn Mawrth 2001. A gredwch y cyflawnir hynny? Os na, pam, a pha gamau a gymerwch yn erbyn y Gweinidog os metha?

Rhodri Morgan The First Minister spoken in English p. 20

Rhodri Morgan Prif Weinidog Cymru siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 20

It is too early to say that. We await figures for the last two months. As I have said to Nick Bourne, I accept that there is less time to hit the target. However, this is not about individual target setting and penalising Ministers who do not hit targets. This is about collective decision making. That is why I give you the opportunity—as I give to the general public in Wales and elsewhere—to read the Cabinet minutes. You are not given that privilege elsewhere. If you look at those minutes you will see that all the decisions are referred to as collective decisions. We do not refer to arguments between Jane and Jane about who should receive more money in health or education. It is a matter for collective Cabinet decision-making. It is not like being in Lloyds Bank where the manager gives clerks targets for loans and low recovery and so on. It is a matter of collective Cabinet responsibility.

Mae’n rhy gynnar i ddweud hynny. Yr ydym yn aros am ffigurau ar gyfer y ddau fis diwethaf. Fel y dywedais wrth Nick Bourne, derbyniaf fod llai o amser i gwrdd â’r targed. Fodd bynnag, nid yw hyn yn ymwneud â phennu targedau unigol a chosbi Gweinidogion nad ydynt yn cwrdd â thargedau. Mae’n ymwneud â chymryd penderfyniadau ar y cyd. Dyna pam y rhoddaf gyfle i chi—yn ogystal â’r cyhoedd yng Nghymru a mannau eraill—ddarllen cofnodion y Cabinet. Ni roddir y fraint honno mewn mannau eraill. Os edrychwch ar y cofnodion hynny fe welwch y cyfeirir at bob penderfyniad fel penderfyniadau torfol. Ni chyfeiriwn at ddadleuon rhwng Jane a Jane ynghylch pwy ddylai dderbyn mwy o arian mewn iechyd neu addysg. Mae’n fater i’r Cabinet benderfynu arno ar y cyd. Nid yw fel bod ym Manc Lloyds lle mae’r rheolwr yn rhoi targedau i glercod ar gyfer benthyciadau ac adenillion isel ac ati. Mae’n gyfrifoldeb torfol i’r Cabinet.

Phil Williams spoken in English p. 20

Phil Williams siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 20

While I accept your earlier answer that you cannot take responsibility for every factory closure, we have had a depressing and unending sequence of closures. In assessing your performance as First Minister representing the collective responsibility of the Cabinet, do you accept that you have failed to impress upon the UK Government and the Treasury, in particular, the seriousness of the problems facing Welsh manufacturing industry as a result of the incompetitive parity of the pound?

Er y derbyniaf eich ateb cynharach na allwch gymryd cyfrifoldeb dros bob ffatri sydd yn cau, yr ydym wedi cael dilyniant torcalonnus a diddiwedd o weithfeydd yn cau. Wrth asesu eich perfformiad fel Prif Weinidog Cymru yn cynrychioli cyd gyfrifoldeb y Cabinet, a dderbyniwch eich bod wedi methu â chyfleu i Lywodraeth y DU a’r Trysorlys, yn arbennig, ddifrifoldeb y problemau sydd yn wynebu’r diwydiant gweithgynhyrchu yng Nghymru o ganlyniad i safle anghystadleuol y bunt?

Rhodri Morgan The First Minister spoken in English p. 20

Rhodri Morgan Prif Weinidog Cymru siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 20

That is a difficult and somewhat emotive oppositionist knee-jerk response, Phil. Rather than look at the newspapers of the last few weeks you should look at the figures, and the events of the 18 or 19 months of this Assembly’s existence since powers were transferred to it in July 1999. Although the announcements made in January and early February seem awful and manufacturing in Wales is having a tough time—I do not downplay that for a minute—and I agree that that is partially due to the weakness of the euro and the strength of the pound, the overall state of the economy in Wales is good. Employment has increased by some 5,000 over the past 12 months and unemployment is down by 5,000, using the Margaret Thatcher-type measure, or by 7,000 using the International Labour Organisation measure. That cannot be bad. The number of people in employment has increased by some 28,000 over the past two years. That is not the sign of a struggling economy. We are not in the bust phase of the old Tory boom and bust. If we were, I would be willing to talk about it. However, you do not portray the true state of the Welsh economy when you use a series of January headlines to describe it.

Mae hynny’n ymateb anodd ac eithaf emosiynol ddifeddwl sydd yn nodweddiadol gan wrthblaid, Phil. Yn hytrach nag edrych ar bapurau newydd dros yr ychydig wythnosau diwethaf dylech edrych ar y ffigurau, a’r digwyddiadau dros y 18 neu 19 mis o fodolaeth y Cynulliad hwn ers i bwerau gael eu trosglwyddo iddo fis Gorffennaf 1999. Er i’r cyhoeddiadau a wnaethpwyd fis Ionawr a dechrau Chwefror ymddangos yn ofnadwy a bod gweithgynhyrchu yng Nghymru yn mynd drwy gyfnod anodd—nid wyf yn bychanu hynny am eiliad—a chytunaf fod hynny’n rhannol oherwydd gwendid yr euro a chryfder y bunt, mae cyflwr cyffredinol yr economi yng Nghymru yn dda. Mae cyflogaeth wedi cynyddu ryw 5,000 dros y 12 mis diwethaf ac mae diweithdra wedi gostwng 5,000, os defnyddir mesur o fath Margaret Thatcher, neu 7,000 os defnyddir mesur y Mudiad Llafur Rhyngwladol. Ni all hynny fod yn ddrwg. Mae nifer y bobl mewn gwaith wedi cynyddu rhyw 28,000 dros y ddwy flynedd diwethaf. Nid yw hynny’n arwydd o economi sydd mewn trafferthion. Nid ydym yng ngham methiant hen ffyniant a methiant y Torïaid. Pe baem, byddwn yn barod i siarad amdano. Fodd bynnag, nid ydych yn cyfleu gwir gyflwr economi Cymru pan ddefnyddiwch gyfres o benawdau mis Ionawr i’w disgrifio.

Pwysigrwydd Cymru Iach a Chynaliadwy

The Importance of a Healthy and Sustainable Wales

Q10 Pauline Jarman spoken in English p. 21

C10 Pauline Jarman siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 21

Does the First Minister have any plans to increase the importance of a healthy and sustainable Wales through policy development and the co-ordination of cross-cutting issues? (OAQ9883)

A oes gan Brif Weinidog Cymru unrhyw gynlluniau i gynyddu pwysigrwydd Cymru iach a chynaliadwy drwy ddatblygu polisïau a chydlynu materion trawsbynciol? (OAQ9883)

Rhodri Morgan The First Minister spoken in English p. 21

Rhodri Morgan Prif Weinidog Cymru siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 21

Yes, and not repaying £41 million to the Treasury, because we never had it in the first place, is a part of that. We intend to distribute all the block money to the right sectors and invest it in producing a healthy, sustainable Wales. I am sure that you will agree on that, and not circulate stories, as your party leader has been doing, about what we have done with money that we never had. Policy development and co-ordination of cross-cutting issues, for example breaking down the artificial barriers between health, which is run by the Assembly, and the social services run by local government, is our way forward to produce a healthier, wealthier and smarter Wales.

Oes, ac mae peidio ag ad-dalu £41 miliwn i’r Trysorlys, gan nad oedd gennym yn y lle cyntaf, yn rhan o hynny. Yr ydym yn bwriadu dosbarthu’r holl arian bloc i’r sectorau cywir a’i fuddsoddi i gynhyrchu Cymru iach, gynaliadwy. Yr wyf yn siŵr y cytunwch ar hynny, a pheidio â lledaenu straeon, fel y gwnaeth arweinydd eich plaid, am yr hyn yr ydym wedi’i wneud gydag arian nad oedd gennym. Datblygu polisi a chydlynu materion trawsbynciol, er enghraifft, chwalu’r rhwystrau artiffisial rhwng iechyd, y mae’r Cynulliad yn gyfrifol amdano, a gwasanaethau cymdeithasol y mae llywodraeth leol yn gyfrifol amdanynt, yw ein ffordd ymlaen i gynhyrchu Cymru iachach, gyfoethocach a doethach.

Pauline Jarman spoken in English p. 21

Pauline Jarman siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 21

I am glad that you touched on money in your answer. A recent Joseph Rowntree Foundation report found that redistribution of wealth would have the greatest effect on health inequalities because it would improve the lives of the largest number of people and that over 11,500 deaths could be avoided by only a modest redistribution of wealth. The President of the Chartered Institute of Environmental Health unfortunately described this as a ‘Robin Hood’ policy. Does the redistribution of wealth play a major part in the Executive’s policy development in creating a healthy and sustainable Wales?

Yr wyf yn falch eich bod wedi crybwyll arian yn eich ateb. Darganfu adroddiad diweddar gan Sefydliad Joseph Rowntree mai ailddosbarthu cyfoeth fyddai’n cael yr effaith fwyaf ar anghydraddoldebau iechyd gan y byddai’n gwella bywydau y nifer fwyaf o bobl ac y gellid osgoi dros 11,500 o farwolaethau dim ond drwy ailddosbarthu cyfoeth yn gymedrol. Yn anffodus, disgrifiodd Llywydd Sefydliad Siartredig Iechyd yr Amgylchedd hyn fel polisi ‘Robin Hood’. A yw ailddosabrthu cyfoeth yn chwarae rhan amlwg yn natblygiad polisi’r Weithrediaeth wrth greu Cymru iach a chynaliadwy?

Rhodri Morgan The First Minister spoken in English p. 22

Rhodri Morgan Prif Weinidog Cymru siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 22

Where possible, it does. That is what Communities First is all about. However, we are not in charge of macro-economic or taxation policy. That is a matter for central Government and is not devolved to us, nor to Scotland or Northern Ireland. Where we can operate our budget constructively to redistribute wealth to the least well-off communities, we are doing so. That is what we have committed ourselves to, as far as I understand it, in approving the Communities First programme. I am grateful for the opportunity to restate on behalf of everybody in this Assembly, as far as I know, that we intend to include all communities in Wales, including 100 of the poorest communities via the Communities First programme.

Lle bynnag y bo’n bosibl, fe wna. Dyna yw pwrpas Rhoi Cymunedau’n Gyntaf. Fodd bynnag, nid ydym yn gyfrifol am bolisi macro-economaidd na threthiant. Mae hynny’n fater i Lywodraeth ganolog ac nid yw wedi’i ddatganoli i ni, nac i’r Alban na Gogledd Iwerddon. Lle gallwn weithredu ein cyllideb yn adeiladol i ailddosbarthu cyfoeth i gymunedau llai cefnog, yr ydym yn gwneud hynny. Dyma yr ydym wedi ymrwymo iddo, fel y deallaf, wrth gymeradwyo’r rhaglen Rhoi Cymunedau’n Gyntaf. Yr wyf yn ddiolchgar am y cyfle i ailnodi ar ran pawb yn y Cynulliad hwn, hyd y gwn, ein bod yn bwriadu cynnwys pob cymuned yng Nghymru, yn cynnwys 100 o’r cymunedau tlotaf drwy’r rhaglen Rhoi Cymunedau’n Gyntaf.

Swyddi Ychwanegol yng Ngorllewin Cymru a’r Cymoedd erbyn 2003

Extra Jobs in West Wales and the Valleys by 2003

C11 Geraint Davies siaradwyd yn Gymraeg t. 22

Q11 Geraint Davies spoken in Welsh p. 22

A wnaiff Prif Weinidog Cymru ddatganiad ar sefyllfa bresennol y gwaith o greu 34,000 o swyddi ychwanegol yng ngorllewin Cymru a’r Cymoedd erbyn 2003 fel sydd wedi ei nodi yn ‘Gwellcymru.com’? (OAQ9878)

Can the First Minister make a statement on current progress stated in ‘Betterwales.com’ of creating 34,000 additional jobs in west Wales and the Valleys by March 2003? (OAQ9878)

Rhodri Morgan Prif Weinidog Cymru siaradwyd yn Gymraeg t. 22

Rhodri Morgan The First Minister spoken in Welsh p. 22

Mae Geraint wedi rhoi ei fys ar un o’n problemau mwyaf pigog yng Nghymru, sef bod perfformiad yr economi yn golygu bod mwy o swyddi yn cael eu creu yng Nghymru, ond nid yn y lleoedd y mae eu hangen fwyaf. Er enghraifft, bu cynnydd mewn swyddi yng Nghymru o 28,000 yn y ddwy flynedd cyn Awst 2000. Yr oedd 32,000 o swyddi newydd yn nwyrain Cymru a gostyngiad o 5,000 yng nghyfanswm y swyddi yng ngorllewin Cymru a’r Cymoedd.

Geraint has put his finger on one of our most thorny problems in Wales, namely that the economy’s performance means that more jobs are being created in Wales, but not in the places where they are most needed. For example, there was an increase in jobs in Wales of 28,000 during the two years preceding August 2000. There were 32,000 new jobs in east Wales and a decrease of 5,000 jobs in west Wales and the Valleys.

Geraint Davies siaradwyd yn Gymraeg t. 22

Geraint Davies spoken in Welsh p. 22

A ydych yn cytuno bod gwella’r isadeiladedd yn hanfodol i greu swyddi, yn arbennig yn y Cymoedd? Pa gynlluniau sydd gennych i fuddsoddi adnoddau ychwanegol i greu’r gwelliannau hanfodol hyn?

Do you agree that improving infrastructure is essential to the creation of jobs, particularly in the Valleys? What plans do you have to invest additional resources to make these essential improvements?

Rhodri Morgan Prif Weinidog Cymru siaradwyd yn Gymraeg t. 23

Rhodri Morgan The First Minister spoken in Welsh p. 23

Mae hynny’n rhan o’r rhaglen. Ni allwch greu swyddi os nad yw’r isadeiledd o’r safon angenrheidiol. Mae’r diffiniad o beth yw’r elfennau mwyaf perthnasol o’r isadeiladedd wedi newid llawer. Yn y gorffennol, ffyrdd oedd yn allweddol ond yn awr mae gennym datblygiadau megis technoleg band eang. Fodd bynnag, yr ydym yn awyddus i sicrhau nad oes ardal yng Nghymru yn cael ei hepgor o’r isadeiledd traddodiadol neu o’r math technolegol diweddaraf.

That is part of the programme. You cannot create jobs if the infrastructure is not of the necessary standard. The definition of what the most relevant aspects of the infrastructure are has changed a great deal. In the past, roads were essential, but now there are developments such as broadband technology. However, we are eager to ensure that no area of Wales is left out in terms of traditional infrastructure or of the latest technological infrastructure.

Glyn Davies spoken in English p. 23

Glyn Davies siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 23

Does the First Minister agree that in important Assembly documents, such as the Assembly’s corporate plan or the national economic development strategy, the targets that we adopt for jobs and for gross domestic product should be realistic and genuine estimates of what is believed to be achievable?

A gytuna’r Prif Weinidog, yn nogfennau pwysig y Cynulliad, fel cynllun corfforaethol y Cynulliad neu’r strategaeth datblygu economaidd genedlaethol, y dylai’r targedau a fabwysiadwn ar gyfer swyddi ac ar gyfer cynnyrch mewnwladol crynswth fod yn amcangyfrifon realistig a dilys o’r hyn y credir y gellid ei gyflawni?

Rhodri Morgan The First Minister spoken in English p. 23

Rhodri Morgan Prif Weinidog Cymru siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 23

Yes. One problem is that the statisticians keep providing moving targets. As of this morning, the statisticians have reassessed the GDP per capita level in Wales in 1999 and, retrospectively, for 1998, as one percentage point higher than previously stated, although there was a downgrading of GDP per capita by some one percentage point only about seven or eight months ago. In addition, they tell us that a further revision of the statistics is due in April. Therefore, it is fair to say that we roughly know where we are. The figures might look slightly better this morning because of this revision for 1998 and 1999. We are now at 80.5 per cent instead of at 79.5 per cent of the UK average and are allegedly three percentage points higher in GDP per capita, relative to the UK average, than the north-east of England. On the other hand, that figure might be revised downwards again in the next couple of months, having only been revised downwards some six months ago. You do not know where you are at any one time, because statisticians keep playing around with the figures. These are not real movements in the economy, but revisions of the statistics. It leaves us in some difficulty. However, we know that we are at about 80 per cent of the average UK GDP per capita and we think that that we should be at 90 per cent in 10 year’s time. That seems a reasonable target to me.

Cytunaf. Un broblem yw bod yr ystadegwyr yn darparu targedau symudol. O’r bore yma, mae’r ystadegwyr wedi ailasesu lefel y CMC y pen yng Nghymru yn 1999 ac, yn adolygol, ar gyfer 1998, fel un pwynt canran yn uwch nag a nodwyd yn flaenorol, er yr israddiwyd CMC y pen un pwynt canran ddim ond ryw saith neu wyth mis yn ôl. Yn ogystal, dywedant wrthym y cynhelir adolygiad pellach o’r ystadegau ym mis Ebrill. Felly, mae’n deg dweud ein bod yn gwybod yn fras lle yr ydym. Efallai y bydd y ffigurau yn edrych ychydig yn well y bore yma oherwydd yr adolygiad hwn ar gyfer 1998 a 1999. Yr ydym bellach yn 80.5 y cant yn hytrach na 79.5 y cant o gyfartaledd y DU a thri phwynt canran yn uwch mewn CMC y pen yn ôl pob tebyg, o gymharu â chyfartaledd y DU, na gogledd-ddwyrain Lloegr. Ar y llaw arall, efallai yr adolygir y ffigur hwnnw tuag i lawr eto yn yr ychydig fisoedd nesaf, er iddo gael ei adolygu tuag i lawr dim ond rhyw chwe mis yn ôl. Ni wyddoch y sefyllfa ar unrhyw un adeg, gan fod yr ystadegwyr yn chwarae o gwmpas gyda’r ffigurau. Nid yw’r rhain yn symudiadau go iawn yn yr economi, ond adolygiadau o’r ystadegau. Mae’n creu peth anhawster inni. Fodd bynnag, gwyddom ein bod ar tua 80 y cant o CMC y pen y DU ar gyfartaledd a chredwn y dylem fod ar 90 y cant ymhen 10 mlynedd. Mae hynny’n ymddangos yn darged rhesymol i mi.

Datganiad ar Glwy’r Traed a’r Genau

Statement on Foot and Mouth Disease

Carwyn Jones The Minister for Rural Affairs spoken in English p. 24

Carwyn Jones Y Gweinidog dros Faterion Gwledig siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 24

As Members will know, the outbreak of foot and mouth disease is extremely serious and a real emergency. Consistent action is being taken across Britain to bring the disease under control. The state veterinary service is run by the Ministry of Agriculture, Fisheries and Food and covers the whole of Great Britain. It liaises closely with the National Assembly on its work in Wales. The SVS is following identical procedures in Wales to those being followed in England and Scotland. Since the outbreak was confirmed in Essex last week, the service has been methodically tracing the enormous number of contacts involved.

Fel y gŵyr yr Aelodau, mae’r achosion o glwy’r traed a’r genau yn ddifrifol iawn ac yn argyfwng gwirioneddol. Mae camau gweithredu cyson yn cael eu cymryd ledled Prydain er mwyn rheoli’r clwy hwn. Y Weinyddiaeth Amaethyddiaeth, Pysgodfeydd a Bwyd sydd yn rhedeg gwasanaeth milfeddygol y wladwriaeth ac mae’n cwmpasu Prydain gyfan. Cydweithia’n agos â’r Cynulliad Cenedlaethol ar ei waith yng Nghymru. Dilyna gwasanaeth milfeddygol y wladwriaeth yr un gweithdrefnau’n union yng Nghymru â’r rhai a ddilynir yn Lloegr a’r Alban. Ers y cadarnhawyd yr achos cyntaf yn Essex yr wythnos diwethaf, mae’r gwasanaeth wedi bod yn olrhain yn systematig y nifer enfawr o gysylltiadau.

Sixteen outbreaks of foot and mouth disease have been confirmed so far: 15 in England and now, unfortunately, one in Wales. The source of the outbreak appears to be the farm at Heddon on the Wall in Northumberland, which has featured prominently in the media. The disease has now been confirmed at the slaughterhouse on Anglesey. The animal involved was a lamb that originated in Yorkshire. Arrangements are being made for the slaughter of the livestock at the premises.

Cadarnhawyd un achos ar bymtheg o glwy’r traed a’r genau hyd yma: 15 yn Lloegr ac erbyn hyn, yn anffodus, un yng Nghymru. Ymddengys mai tarddiad yr achosion yw’r fferm yn Heddon on the Wall yn Northumberland, sydd wedi cael sylw amlwg yn y cyfryngau. Cadarnhawyd bod y clwy erbyn hyn yn y lladd-dy ar Ynys Môn. Yr anifail dan sylw oedd oen a ddaeth o Swydd Efrog. Gwneir trefniadau ar gyfer lladd yr anifeiliaid yn yr adeilad.

The disease has also been confirmed on a farm at Llancloudy, just across the border in Herefordshire. The resulting infected area declared crosses the border into Monmouthshire. Several urgent tracings are being investigated from these premises in Monmouthshire and Powys. Three reports of suspected disease are being urgently investigated in the area.

Cadarnhawyd y clwy hefyd ar fferm yn Llanllwydau, ar draws y ffin yn Swydd Henffordd. Mae’r ardal heintus a gadarnhawyd yn croesi’r ffin i Sir Fynwy. Mae proses archwilio frys i olrhain anifeiliaid yn cael ei chynnal o’r eiddo hyn yn Sir Fynwy a Phowys. Mae tri adroddiad o achosion tybiedig o’r clwy yn cael eu harchwilio ar fyrder yn yr ardal.

The incubation period for this particular strain of the disease varies according to the infective dose and the type of animal. The incubation period in pigs in Essex was as little as 36 hours. The period for cattle appears to be normally between four and five days. The incubation period for sheep is likely to be similar to that for cattle, although it could be 14 days and, in exceptional cases, as long as 21 days.

Mae cyfnod heintus ar gyfer y math arbennig hwn o’r clwy yn amrywio yn ôl y dos heintus a’r math o anifail. Yr oedd y cyfnod heintus ymhlith moch yn Essex cyn lleied â 36 awr. Ymddengys mai’r cyfnod ar gyfer gwartheg fel arfer yw rhwng pedwar a phum diwrnod. Mae’n debyg bod y cyfnod heintus i ddefaid yn debyg i’r cyfnod ar gyfer gwartheg, er y gallai fod yn 14 diwrnod ac, mewn achosion eithriadol, cyhyd â 21 diwrnod.

In the light of this, the steps taken last Friday to bar all movements of livestock throughout Great Britain were clearly necessary. I discussed the measure with Nick Brown on Friday and gave it my unequivocal support. The farming unions also support the prohibition of livestock movements. They understand that it is essential that if vets are to be able to catch up with the spread of the disease, they must identify and eradicate the disease in each location.

Yng ngoleuni hyn, yr oedd y camau a gymerwyd ddydd Gwener diwethaf i atal symud anifeiliaid yn llwyr trwy Brydain gyfan yn gwbl angenrheidiol. Trafodais y mesur gyda Nick Brown ddydd Gwener a rhoddais fy nghefnogaeth lwyr i hynny. Mae’r undebau ffermio hefyd yn cefnogi’r gwaharddiad rhag symud anifeiliaid. Deallant fod hyn yn angenrheidiol, oherwydd os yw'r milfeddygon am allu rheoli ymlediad y clwy, rhaid iddynt nodi a chael gwared ar y clwy ym mhob lleoliad.

I have taken a range of steps to support the state veterinary service’s action against the disease. Farm inspections have been stopped to avoid any risk of spreading infection. The Countryside Council for Wales, the Farming and Rural Conservation Agency, the Environment Agency, and the Forestry Commission have, similarly, stopped visits to farms. Guidance on reducing the risk of infection was issued last week to a wide range of organisations, and further guidance was issued yesterday. Agricultural colleges have been advised to shut.

Yr wyf wedi cymryd amryw o gamau i gefnogi camau gweithredu gwasanaeth milfeddygol y wladwriaeth yn erbyn y clwy. Gohiriwyd archwiliadau fferm er mwyn atal yr haint rhag lledu. Mae Cyngor Cefn Gwlad Cymru, yr Asiantaeth Ffermio a Chadwraeth Cefn Gwlad, Asiantaeth yr Amgylchedd a’r Comisiwn Coedwigaeth yn yr un modd, wedi rhoi’r gorau i ymweld â ffermydd. Cyhoeddwyd arweiniad ar leihau’r risg o ledu’r haint yr wythnos diwethaf i amrywiaeth eang o sefydliadau, a chyhoeddwyd arweiniad pellach ddoe. Cynghorwyd colegau amaethyddol i gau.

I met the farming unions on Friday to discuss the crisis, and we are working closely with them. Their support is greatly appreciated. The Agriculture Department and the state veterinary service kept me and farming union leaders fully updated throughout the weekend. An Assembly operations room has been established, staffed from 7.00 a.m. until 10.00 p.m. each day, to monitor the disease’s progress. A senior member of our Agriculture Department is in London working with senior officials in the Ministry of Agriculture, Fisheries and Food, to ensure effective communication, and to feed news that is appropriate and relevant to Wales.

Cyfarfûm â’r undebau ffermio ddydd Gwener i drafod yr argyfwng, ac yr ydym yn cydweithio’n agos â hwy. Gwerthfawrogwn eu cefnogaeth yn fawr. Sicrhaodd yr Adran Amaethyddiaeth a gwasanaeth milfeddygol y wladwriaeth fy mod i ac arweinwyr yr undebau ffermio yn derbyn yr wybodaeth ddiweddaraf dros y penwythnos. Sefydlwyd ystafell gweithrediadau yn y Cynulliad, wedi’i staffio rhwng 7.00 a.m. hyd 10.00 p.m. bob dydd i fonitro cynnydd y clwy. Mae uwch aelod ein Hadran Amaethyddiaeth yn Llundain yn gweithio ag uwch-swyddogion yn y Weinyddiaeth Amaethyddiaeth, Pysgodfeydd a Bwyd, er mwyn sicrhau cyfathrebu effeithiol, ac er mwyn bwydo’r newyddion sydd yn briodol a pherthnasol i Gymru.

No-one can underestimate the trauma that this new crisis represents for farmers. My message to them is this: adhere to the regulations—they are absolutely essential. It may be awkward, for instance if your sheep are away on tack, and are about to lamb, but if you break the ban on movements you are putting the future of the whole industry at risk. The ban is fully supported by your unions. Be vigilant, and report anything suspicious to your local animal health office. With your support, we can, and will, conquer the disease. If you have more general questions, you can ring the Assembly’s telephone helplines. These will be open from 7.00 a.m. to 10.00 p.m. during the week, and from 10.00 a.m. to 4.00 p.m. over the weekend. Details of these numbers have been issued today. In addition, there is a range of other telephone numbers that you can ring. These are all on the Assembly’s website. The farming unions are helping to publicise them. We have also issued a question and answer briefing to the farming unions, and we will keep this regularly updated. This will help the unions answer questions from their members. Local vets can also provide useful advice.

Ni all unrhyw un danbrisio’r trawma y mae’r argyfwng hwn yn ei olygu i ffermwyr. Fy neges iddynt yw hyn: glynwch at y rheoliadau—maent yn gwbl hanfodol. Gallai fod yn anodd, er enghraifft os yw eich defaid wedi’u tacio i ffwrdd o’r fferm, ac ar fin ŵyna, ond os byddwch yn torri’r gwaharddiad ar symud anifeiliaid yr ydych yn bygwth dyfodol y diwydiant cyfan. Mae eich undebau’n cefnogi’r gwaharddiad yn llwyr. Byddwch yn wyliadwrus, a rhowch wybod i’ch swyddog iechyd anifeiliaid lleol os gwelwch unrhyw beth amheus. Gyda’ch cefnogaeth chi, gallwn, a byddwn, yn goresgyn y clwy hwn. Os oes gennych gwestiynau mwy cyffredinol, gallwch ffonio llinellau cymorth y Cynulliad. Bydd y rhain ar agor o 7.00 a.m. i 10.00 p.m. yn ystod yr wythnos, ac o 10.00 a.m. i 4.00 p.m. dros y penwythnos. Cyhoeddwyd manylion y rhifau hyn heddiw. Yn ogystal, ceir amrywiaeth o rifau ffôn eraill y gallwch eu ffonio. Mae’r rhain ar wefan y Cynulliad. Mae’r undebau ffermio yn helpu i roi cyhoeddusrwydd iddynt. Yr ydym hefyd wedi cyhoeddi briff holi ac ateb i’r undebau ffermio, a byddwn yn diweddaru hwn yn rheolaidd. Bydd hyn yn helpu’r undebau i ateb cwestiynau gan eu haelodau. Gall milfeddygon lleol ddarparu cyngor defnyddiol hefyd.

In addition, I recognise the financial losses that the disease involves, not just for farmers but for food processors, other companies associated with the industry, and tourism. Full market value compensation will be available to farmers who have their livestock slaughtered as a consequence of the disease. I have also impressed upon Nick Brown that the current crisis reinforces still further the case for the full payment of agri-monetary compensation. I have also taken up with him the need to consider what happens to cattle that pass 30 months of age while the movement restriction is in force.

Yn ogystal, cydnabyddaf y colledion ariannol sydd ynghlwm â’r clwy hwn, nid yn unig i ffermwyr, ond i broseswyr bwyd, cwmnïau eraill sydd yn gysylltiedig â’r diwydiant, a thwristiaeth. Bydd iawndal llawn gwerth y farchnad ar gael i ffermwyr y bu’n rhaid lladd eu hanifeiliaid o ganlyniad i’r clwy. Pwysleisiais hefyd i Nick Brown bod yr argyfwng hwn yn atgyfnerthu ymhellach y ddadl dros sicrhau taliad llawn o iawndal amaeth-arianyddol. Trafodais gydag ef hefyd yr angen i ystyried beth sydd yn digwydd i wartheg sydd yn mynd y tu hwnt i 30 mis oed tra bo’r gwaharddiad symud mewn grym.

My message to the public is this: foot and mouth disease does not have public health implications. I am pleased that the public has heeded the message not to panic buy. The Government will maintain food supplies. As part of this, Nick Brown indicated yesterday that discussions are underway with the industry on whether it is possible to allow for some tightly controlled movement of livestock for slaughter, consistent with a rigorous approach to control of the disease. Assembly officials are taking part in those discussions.

Fy neges i’r cyhoedd yw hyn: nid oes gan glwy’r traed a’r genau oblygiadau i iechyd y cyhoedd. Yr wyf yn falch bod y cyhoedd wedi glynu at y neges i beidio â phrynu’n wyllt. Bydd y Llywodraeth yn cynnal cyflenwadau bwyd. Fel rhan o hyn, dywedodd Nick Brown ddoe bod trafodaethau eisoes ar waith gyda’r diwydiant i weld a fyddai’n bosibl caniatáu symud rhywfaint o anifeiliaid i’w lladd o dan reolaeth lem, a fyddai’n gyson â’r ymagwedd drylwyr a fabwysiadwyd i reoli’r clwy. Mae swyddogion y Cynulliad yn cymryd rhan yn y trafodaethau hynny.

Last Friday, I appealed to members of the public to stay away from agricultural land. Although many have taken that appeal to heart, there have been well-publicised examples of walkers going onto land where livestock is grazing. This is deeply irresponsible behaviour, as it risks spreading the disease. Officials have been in touch with the national parks, and they are taking all action possible to discourage people from going onto grazing land, in particular by closing car parks. In addition, an order is being made today under the Animal Health Act 1981 jointly by the National Assembly and the Ministry of Agriculture, Fisheries and Food. This order gives the power to the state veterinary service and local authority animal health inspectors to close public footpaths in the controlled area, which is currently England and Wales. I emphasise that the order is appropriate to, and has been born in, Wales. The order also gives power to local authorities in areas where there are confirmed cases of foot and mouth disease to make declarations prohibiting entry to areas identified in the declaration, except on public highways that are open to vehicular traffic. The same power is also given to local authorities that do not have confirmed cases in their areas, although the power is only exercisable in practice after consultation with MAFF vets. This order comes into effect today. It is a measure for which I pressed, and which was drawn up by National Assembly officials. I am pleased that Nick Brown recognised the arguments that I put to him to prove that this step was needed.

Apeliais ddydd Gwener diwethaf i’r cyhoedd gadw draw o dir amaethyddol. Er bod llawer o bobl wedi cymryd yr apêl honno o ddifrif, gwelwyd enghreifftiau amlwg o gerddwyr yn cerdded ar dir lle yr oedd anifeiliaid yn pori. Mae hyn yn ymddygiad cwbl anghyfrifol, gan ei fod yn peryglu’r posibilrwydd o ledu’r clwy. Cysylltodd swyddogion â pharciau cenedlaethol, ac maent yn cymryd yr holl gamau posibl i annog pobl i beidio â mynd ar dir pori, yn arbennig drwy gau meysydd parcio. Yn ogystal, gwneir gorchymyn heddiw o dan Ddeddf Iechyd Anifeiliaid 1981 ar y cyd rhwng y Cynulliad Cenedlaethol a’r Weinyddiaeth Amaethyddiaeth, Pysgodfeydd a Bwyd. Rhydd y gorchymyn hwn y pŵer i wasanaeth milfeddygol y wladwriaeth ac arolygwyr iechyd anifeiliaid awdurdodau lleol i gau llwybrau cyhoeddus yn yr ardal reoledig, sef Cymru a Lloegr ar hyn o bryd. Pwysleisiaf fod y gorchymyn yn briodol i, ac wedi deillio o Gymru. Rhydd y gorchymyn hefyd bŵer i awdurdodau lleol yn yr ardaloedd hynny y cadarnhawyd achosion o glwy’r traed a’r genau i wneud datganiadau sydd yn gwahardd mynediad i’r ardaloedd a nodwyd yn y datganiad, ac eithrio ar briffyrdd cyhoeddus sydd yn agored i gerbydau. Rhoddir yr un pŵer hefyd i awdurdodau lleol nad oes achosion a gadarnhawyd yn eu hardaloedd, er mai dim ond drwy ymgynghori â milfeddygon y Weinyddiaeth Amaethyddiaeth, Pysgodfeydd a Bwyd y gallant arfer y pŵer. Daw’r gorchymyn hwn i rym heddiw Mae’n fesur y pwysais amdano, ac a luniwyd gan swyddogion y Cynulliad Cenedlaethol. Yr wyf yn falch iawn y cydnabu Nick Brown y dadleuon a gyflwynais iddo i brofi bod angen cymryd y cam hwn.

Nick Brown has indicated that he is committed to identifying precisely how the outbreak was caused, and how we can ensure that it does not occur again. I support him fully in that, as do all Assembly Members. Many newspapers have been asking where the virus came from and people have been rushing to draw conclusions before all the facts are available. It is premature at this stage to try to work out where the virus originated. That is for another time. The immediate priority is to bring the outbreak under control, and staff are working flat out to achieve that objective.

Dywedodd Nick Brown ei fod yn ymrwymedig i ganfod yn union sut yr achoswyd y clwy, a sut y gallwn sicrhau na fydd yn digwydd eto. Fe’i cefnogaf yn llwyr yn hyn o beth, fel y gwna holl Aelodau’r Cynulliad. Mae nifer o bapurau newydd wedi gofyn o ble daeth y firws ac mae pobl wedi bod yn dod i gasgliadau byrbwyll eu hunain cyn i’r holl ffeithiau fod ar gael. Mae’n rhy gynnar ar hyn o bryd i geisio canfod o ble daeth y firws. Gwneir hynny eto. Y brif flaenoriaeth yn awr yw rheoli nifer yr achosion, ac mae staff yn gweithio’n ddi-baid i gyflawni’r nod hwnnw.

Elin Jones siaradwyd yn Gymraeg t. 28

Elin Jones spoken in Welsh p. 28

Yr ydym oll wedi ein siomi gan y cyhoeddiad fod clwy’r traed a’r genau wedi ei gadarnhau yn Ynys Môn ac yn y gororau yn Llanllwydau. Mae sôn hefyd ar y cyfryngau bod posibilrwydd o achos yn Llangybi ger Llanbedr Pont Steffan. Fel yr Aelod Cynulliad dros Geredigion, hoffwn wybod a oes unrhyw wybodaeth bellach ynghylch hynny.

We have all been saddened by the announcement that foot and mouth disease has been confirmed on Anglesey and in the marches at Llancloudy. There is also talk in the media that there is a possibility of a case in Llangybi near Lampeter. As the Assembly Member for Ceredigion, I would like to know whether there is any further information on that.

Mae hwn yn argyfwng drwy wledydd Prydain ac yr ydym oll wedi synnu pa mor gyflym ac eang y mae’r haint wedi lledu. Dywed hynny lawer wrthym am y patrwm o gludo a lladd anifeiliaid, o’i gymharu â’r argyfwng diwethaf yn 1967. Fodd bynnag, cwestiynau tymor hir yw’r rheini, a dylid eu trafod mewn man arall ar amser arall. Heddiw, canolbwyntiaf ar gwestiynau ynglŷn â’r argyfwng tymor byr. A yw Carwyn Jones a chadeirydd y Pwyllgor Amaethyddiaeth a Datblygu Gwledig, Glyn Davies, yn cytuno ei bod yn briodol inni gael trafodaeth fanwl a phwyllog ar yr argyfwng hwn yng nghyfarfod y Pwyllgor yfory?

This is a crisis for the whole of Britain and we are all surprised by how rapidly and extensively the disease has spread. That tells us a great deal about the pattern of transporting and slaughtering animals, compared to the last crisis in 1967. However, those are long-term questions and they should be discussed in another place at another time. I will concentrate today on questions on the short-term crisis. Would Carwyn Jones and the chair of the Agriculture and Rural Development Committee, Glyn Davies, agree that it is appropriate for us to have a detailed and measured debate on this crisis in the Committee meeting tomorrow?

Mae’r cyhoeddiad ynglŷn â chlwy’r traed a’r genau yn y Gaerwen yn siomedig. Pa gamau y mae’r Gweinidog yn eu cymryd i sicrhau nad yw’r haint hwn yn lledu o’r lladd-dy yn Ynys Môn? Er enghraifft, a fydd cerbydau’n cael eu diheintio ar y pontydd sydd yn cysylltu Ynys Môn a’r tir mawr? Mae hynny’n bwysig er mwyn rhwystro’r haint rhag lledu tu hwnt i Ynys Môn. Pa mor hir y bu’r anifail a oedd yn dioddef o’r clwy yn y lladd-dy? Faint o ffermwyr ac anifeiliaid a fu yn y lladd-dy yn y cyfamser? Mae hynny’n dylanwadu ar y posibilrwydd bod yr anifail wedi heintio anifeiliaid eraill yn Ynys Môn a thu hwnt.

The announcement regarding foot and mouth disease in Gaerwen is disappointing. What steps is the Minister taking to ensure that this disease does not spread from the abattoir in Anglesey? For example, will vehicles be disinfected on the bridges linking Anglesey to the mainland? That is important in order to stop the disease from spreading beyond Anglesey. For how long was the infected animal in the abattoir? How many farmers and animals have been in the abattoir in the interim? That increases the possibility that the animal infected other animals in Anglesey and beyond.

Croesawaf y Gorchymyn a fydd yn caniatáu i awdurdodau lleol gau llwybrau cyhoeddus. Gobeithiaf y byddant yn gwneud hynny ar unwaith ac y bydd pobl yn cydymffurfio â’r gwaharddiad. Arweinia hynny, wrth gwrs, at gwestiynau yn ymwneud â chost gweithredu a monitro’r gwaharddiad.

I welcome the Order that will allow local authorities to close public footpaths. I hope that they will do so immediately and that people will conform to the ban. That will, of course, lead to questions about the cost of implementing and monitoring the ban.

Cyfeiriodd y Gweinidog at y ffaith fod nifer o ddefaid a gwartheg yn cael eu tacio yn ystod y gaeaf oddi ar y fferm. Bydd y rhan fwyaf o’r cytundebau sydd yn ymwneud â hynny yn dod i ben ar 1 Mawrth a bydd yn rhaid dychwelyd yr anifeiliaid i’r ffermydd, yn enwedig defaid ar gyfer y tymor ŵyna. Os caiff y gwaharddiad ar symud anifeiliaid ei ymestyn o ddydd Gwener ymlaen, a fyddai’n bosibl rhoi trwyddedau arbennig i ffermwyr symud anifeiliaid yn ôl i’w ffermydd i sicrhau bod defaid yn ŵyna ar dir y fferm ac o dan ofal y ffermwyr?

The Minister referred to the fact that many sheep and cattle are tacked during the winter away from the farms. Most of the contracts in relation to that will expire on 1 March, and the animals will have to be returned to their farms, particularly sheep for the lambing season. If the ban on movement of animals is extended from Friday onwards, will it be possible to give special licences to farmers to move their animals back to their farms to ensure that sheep are able to lamb on the farm and under the farmer’s care?

Soniasoch yr wythnos diwethaf am y posibilrwydd o ganiatáu allforion o Gymru. Fodd bynnag, efallai na fydd hynny’n bosibl bellach oherwydd y cyhoeddiad ynglŷn ag Ynys Môn. Gan fod y Prif Weinidog wedi gofyn cwestiynau manwl ynglŷn â phwerau’r Cynulliad yn sgîl argyfwng clwy’r traed a’r genau, pa bwerau a fyddai’n eich galluogi i ganiatáu allforion o Gymru’n unig? Credaf fod y cyhoeddiad hwnnw wedi codi disgwyliadau ffermwyr a byddwn yn gwerthfawrogi manylion ynglŷn â phwerau’r Cynulliad yn hynny o beth.

You spoke last week about the possibility of allowing exports from Wales. However, perhaps that will not now be possible, given the announcement about Anglesey. As the First Minister asked specific questions about the Assembly’s powers in the wake of the foot and mouth disease crisis, under which powers would you be able to allow exports from Wales only? I believe that farmers’ expectations were raised by that announcement and we would appreciate details about the Assembly’s powers in that respect.

Cyfyd cwestiynau ynglŷn ag iawndal i ffermwyr yr effeithir arnynt yn uniongyrchol gan y clwy, i ffermwyr sydd yn colli marchnadoedd ac arnynt angen porthiant ychwanegol i gynnal yr anifeiliaid nad ydynt yn cyrraedd y marchnadoedd hynny, i ffermwyr â gwartheg sydd ar gyrraedd 30 mis oed, i’r lladd-dai a’u gweithwyr diwaith ac i’r gyrwyr lori sydd yn colli gwaith. Gwrthododd Nick Brown ddoe ymrwymo i iawndal eang. Fodd bynnag, cyhoeddodd Tony Blair neithiwr ar y BBC ei fod yn barod i ystyried darparu iawndal ehangach. Beth yw eich barn chi, fel Gweinidog yn Llywodraeth Cymru, ar fater iawndal ehangach i’r diwydiant yn sgîl yr argyfwng hwn

Questions have arisen about compensation for farmers directly affected by the disease, for farmers who have lost markets and who need additional feed to maintain animals that are not reaching those markets, for farmers whose cattle are drawing towards 30 months of age, for the abattoirs and their unemployed workers and for the lorry drivers who are losing work. Nick Brown yesterday refused to make a commitment to widespread compensation. However, Tony Blair last night announced on the BBC that he was willing to consider providing wider compensation. Where do you stand, as a Minister in the Government of Wales, on the issue of wider compensation for the industry in the wake of this crisis?

Wrth gloi estynnaf gefnogaeth Plaid Cymru i chi a’r Llywodraeth, yn dilyn y camau a gymerwyd gennych hyd yn hyn. Gobeithiaf y bydd pob plaid a pherson yng Nghymru yn ymdrin â’r mater hwn yn gyfrifol er mwyn inni sicrhau nad yw’r argyfwng yn ymestyn ymhellach.

In closing, I extend Plaid Cymru’s support to you and the Government, following the steps that you have taken to date. I hope that every party and person in Wales will deal with this issue responsibly to ensure that this crisis does not spread any further.

Carwyn Jones siaradwyd yn Gymraeg t. 30

Carwyn Jones spoken in Welsh p. 30

Gallaf gadarnhau nad oes achos wedi ei ganfod yn Nhregaron ac nad oes archwiliad yn cael ei gynnal yno ychwaith. Mae’n debyg fod y stori honno wedi dechrau oherwydd y bu cysylltiad rhwng Essex a fferm yn Nhregaron yr wythnos diwethaf. Fodd bynnag, profwyd nad oedd yr anifail yn dioddef o’r clwy. Pwysleisiaf nad oes achos yn cael ei archwilio yn Nhregaron ac, felly, nid yw’r stori’n wir.

I can confirm that no case has been diagnosed in Tregaron, nor is an investigation under way. That rumour probably started because there was a link between Essex and a farm in Tregaron last week. However, it was proven that the animals were not suffering from the disease. To reiterate, there is no case under investigation in Tregaron and, therefore, the rumour is unfounded.

O ran trafod y mater yfory, bydd yn rhaid i Glyn Davies, fel Cadeirydd y Pwyllgor Amaethyddiaeth a Datblygu Gwledig, ystyried hynny. Yr wyf wedi siarad ag ef a gwn ei fod yn awyddus i’w drafod yng nghyfarfod y Pwyllgor yfory. Rhaid ystyried yr hyn yr ydym yn mynd i’w wneud, ond byddai’n chwithig, o gofio’r argyfwng presennol, i beidio â thrafod y mater hwn yfory.

On the point about discussing the issue tomorrow, that is a matter for Glyn Davies, as Chair of the Agriculture and Rural Development Committee. I have spoken to him and he is keen for it to be discussed in Committee tomorrow. We must consider what we are going to do, but it would be strange, given the current crisis, were we not to discuss this matter tomorrow.

Yr ydym yn ceisio canfod pa mor hir y bu’r anifail â’r clwy yn y lladd-dy yn Ynys Môn. Gallaf gadarnhau y daeth yr anifail o Swydd Efrog. Bydd yn rhaid inni aros am ragor o wybodaeth wedi archwiliad y milfeddygon, sydd yn digwydd ar hyn o bryd. Ni fyddai’n iawn imi ddweud rhywbeth nas cadarnhawyd hyd yn hyn. Mae’n fater sydd o dan ystyriaeth. O ran trwyddedu, soniais eisoes am y problemau a wynebir gan ffermwyr wrth orfod symud defaid o un rhan o Gymru i ran arall neu hyd yn oed dros y ffin. Mae’n ffordd o ledu’r salwch yng Nghymru. Apeliaf ar bobl i beidio â symud defaid. Gofynnodd rhai ffermwyr a yw’n iawn i symud defaid ar hyn o bryd. Nid yw’n iawn. Byddai hynny’n fodd o ledu’r clwy ac mae’n bwysig nad ydym yn rhoi cyfle iddo ledu.

We are trying to establish how long the diseased animal was at the abattoir in Anglesey. I can confirm that the animal came from Yorkshire. We will have to wait for more information, following the vets’ investigation, which is currently underway. It would not be right for me to comment on something that remains unconfirmed. It is an issue that is under investigation. With regard to licensing, I have spoken about the problems faced by farmers having to move sheep from one part of Wales to another or even over the border. It is a way of spreading the disease in Wales. I appeal to people not to move sheep. Some farmers have asked whether it is acceptable to move sheep at the moment. It is not acceptable. That would be a means of spreading the disease and it is important that we do not give it a chance to spread.

Yr hyn a ddywedais am allforio yr wythnos diwethaf oedd pe na byddem yn cael achos wedi ei gadarnhau yng Nghymru ar ôl saith diwrnod, efallai y byddai’n bosibl inni fynd i’r Comisiwn Ewropeaidd a dweud nad oes yn rhaid inni yng Nghymru gael gwaharddiad ar allforio. Mae’r opsiwn hwnnw wedi mynd oherwydd bod gennym achos yng Nghymru.

What I said about exporting last week was that if we did not have a confirmed case in Wales after seven days, it might be possible for us to go to the European Commission and say that we in Wales did not need a ban on exporting. That option has gone because we have a case in Wales.

Gwnaeth Nick Brown Orchymyn i atal allforio o Brydain Fawr. Pe na byddai gennym broblem yng Nghymru byddai Nick Brown wedi dileu’r Gorchymyn yng Nghymru. Siaredais â Nick Brown ynghylch hyn a dywedodd pe na byddem yn cael achos yng Nghymru y byddai’n gefnogol i eithrio Cymru ac ardaloedd eraill o’r Deyrnas Unedig o’r gwaharddiad ar allforio. Mae cynseiliau ar gyfer hynny, yn enwedig gyda chlwy’r moch, fel y gwelsom yn yr haf pan oedd gwaharddiad yn Lloegr yn unig ac nid yn y Deyrnas Unedig i gyd. Siaredais â Nick Brown ynghylch hynny, ond yn awr mae gennym achos yng Nghymru.

Nick Brown made an Order to stop exports from Great Britain. If we did not have a problem in Wales Nick Brown would have removed the Order in relation to Wales. I spoke to Nick Brown about this and he said that if we did not have a case in Wales he would support the exemption of Wales and other areas of the United Kingdom from the ban on export. There are precedents for that, especially with classical swine fever, as we saw in the summer when there was a ban in England only and not in the whole of the United Kingdom. I spoke to Nick Brown about that but now we have a case in Wales.

O safbwynt iawndal, rhaid inni gyd gyfaddef fod hwn yn argyfwng difrifol i’r diwydiant. Bydd yn rhaid edrych ar y camau i’w cymryd yn awr. Rhaid inni weld pa fath o gymorth y gallwn ei roi, ac mae’n bwysig fod hynny’n digwydd ar raddfa Brydeinig oherwydd clwy Prydeinig yw hwn erbyn hyn. Edrychaf ymlaen at siarad â chymdogion o weddill Prydain Fawr er mwyn gweld lle yr ydym yn mynd o’r fan hon a pha fath o strwythur a fydd gennym yn ei le er mwyn rhoi cymorth i ffermwyr. Rhaid gweld pa opsiynau sydd gennym a byddaf am weld rhyw fath o strwythur i ddatrys y broblem hon mewn ffordd sydd yn rhoi digon o gymorth i ffermwyr Cymru. Rhaid inni edrych yn fanwl ar beth yn union y gallwn ei wneud.

With regard to compensation, we must all admit that this is a serious crisis for the industry. We will have to discuss where we go from here. We have to see what kind of assistance we can give, and it is important that that happens on a British level because this is now a British disease. I look forward to discussing this with colleagues from the rest of Great Britain to see where we go from here and what sort of structure we will have in place to assist farmers. We must see what options we have and I will want to see some sort of structure to solve this problem in a way that provides plenty of assistance to the farmers of Wales. We must look in great detail at what we can do.

Nick Bourne spoken in English p. 31

Nick Bourne siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 31

I thank the Minister for his statement. I pass on the regrets of Peter Rogers whose farm is only two miles away from the abattoir. We spoke last night and he thought it appropriate, rightly I think, that he did not come to the Assembly while the matter as to whether there was an outbreak there was still undecided. He is concerned about the devastating effect that this is having on his community. Minister, you have our total support in the action that you have so far taken and for whatever needs to be done in continuing that action. In particular, it is vital that walkers are discouraged from walking on farmland and into open countryside through the national parks. That it essential, you are right. This is such a virulent disease that that message needs to go out from this National Assembly on a united basis.

Diolchaf i’r Gweinidog am ei ddatganiad. Hoffwn gyfleu tristwch Peter Rogers gan fod ei fferm ond dwy filltir i ffwrdd o’r lladd-dy. Siaredais ag ef neithiwr a chredodd ei bod yn briodol, a chytunaf ag ef, iddo beidio â dod i’r Cynulliad nes y ceir penderfyniad a oes achos pendant yno ai peidio. Mae’n bryderus ynglŷn â’r effaith ddinistriol a gaiff hyn ar ei gymuned. Weinidog, cefnogwn y camau a gymerwyd gennych eisoes yn llwyr a beth bynnag y bydd angen ei wneud i barhau â’r camau hynny. Yn arbennig, y mae’n holl bwysig annog cerddwyr i beidio â cherdded ar dir fferm ac i mewn i gefn gwlad agored drwy’r parciau cenedlaethol. Mae hynny’n hanfodol, cytunaf â chi. Mae hwn yn glwy mor heintus fel bod angen cyfleu’r neges honno o’r Cynulliad Cenedlaethol hwn yn unedig.

I pose some questions on the compensation package that you mentioned in your statement to address the needs of affected farmers and others. Will the compensation package go beyond farmers? Food prices are affected, as has been noted by Plaid Cymru. Abattoirs are also affected, as is the tourism industry that you mentioned. You have urged Nick Brown to make available agri-monetary compensation. What is the prospect of drawing down that money, because that will be vital in any compensation package? I would be interested, as would other Members, to hear what the prospect is of that for our farmers in Wales.

Hoffwn godi rhai cwestiynau ynghylch y pecyn iawndal a grybwyllasoch yn eich datganiad ar gyfer mynd i’r afael ag anghenion ffermwyr ac eraill. A fydd y pecyn iawndal yn mynd y tu hwnt i ffermwyr? Effeithiwyd ar brisiau bwyd, fel y nodwyd gan Blaid Cymru. Effeithiwyd hefyd ar y lladd-dai, yn ogystal â’r diwydiant twristiaeth fel y crybwyllwyd gennych. Yr ydych wedi annog Nick Brown i sicrhau bod iawndal amaeth-arianyddol ar gael. Beth yw’r rhagolygon o gael gafael ar yr arian hwnnw, oherwydd bydd yn ran hanfodol o unrhyw becyn iawndal? Byddai gennyf ddiddordeb clywed, fel Aelodau eraill, beth yw’r rhagolygon o sicrhau hynny i’n ffermwyr yng Nghymru.

In relation to the abattoir in Gaerwen in Ynys Môn, it is vital—you touched upon this—that we know the timescale of the Yorkshire lamb’s arrival, whether it was confined to buildings or whether it was released into the paddock. Many farmers in north Wales, certainly in the Llanrwst area, who have spoken with Peter today are deeply concerned that they took animals from Gaerwen on Friday. They need to know the overlap period. Will you publish the schedule of the lamb’s arrival as soon as possible? That will put a lot of people’s minds at rest. Do you follow the point that I am making?

Mewn perthynas â’r lladd-dy yng Ngaerwen ar Ynys Môn, mae’n holl bwysig—soniasoch yn fyr am hyn—ein bod yn gwybod pryd y cyrhaeddodd yr oen o Swydd Efrog, a ph’un a oedd wedi’i gyfyngu i’r adeiladau neu a gafodd ei ryddhau i’r padog. Mae nifer o ffermwyr yng ngogledd Cymru, yn arbennig yn ardal Llanrwst, a siaradodd â Peter heddiw yn bryderus iawn eu bod wedi mynd ag anifeiliaid o Gaerwen ddydd Gwener. Mae angen iddynt wybod beth oedd y cyfnod gorgyffwrdd. A wnewch chi gyhoeddi’r amserlen sydd yn dynodi cyrhaeddiad yr oen cyn gynted â phosibl? Bydd hynny’n rhoi tawelwch meddwl i lawer o bobl. Ydych chi’n deall y pwynt y ceisiaf ei wneud?

Carwyn Jones spoken in English p. 32

Carwyn Jones siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 32

Yes.

Ydw.

Nick Bourne spoken in English p. 32

Nick Bourne siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 32

Clearly, it is a time bomb. One issue that you did not mention in the statement and that has not been mentioned so far, which is of concern to farmers’ unions and has been raised with me by farmers, is the alleged shortage of disinfectant. Will you comment on that? It is a concern because it is vital that we have stocks of disinfectant at the farm gate to deal with this situation. Rumours of shortages are circulating. I hope that you can allay people’s concerns.

Yn amlwg, mae hyn yn fom amser. Un mater na soniasoch amdano yn y datganiad ac nad ydych wedi sôn amdano hyd yma, sydd yn peri pryder i undebau ffermwyr ac a godwyd gyda mi gan ffermwyr, yw prinder honedig diheintydd. A wnewch sylw ar hynny? Mae’n peri pryder oherwydd mae’n holl bwysig bod gennym stociau o ddiheintydd wrth glwydi ffermydd i ddelio â’r sefyllfa hon. Mae sibrydion ar led ynghlych prinder. Gobeithiaf y gallwch leddfu pryderon pobl.

We support what you are seeking to do. It is important that a united national message goes out this afternoon. We look forward to the full investigation and the consequences and conclusions that we can draw from it. I am sure that this issue will be debated in the Agriculture and Rural Development Committee and discussed further in Plenary. In the meantime, you have our support, but I would be grateful if you could address the points that I have raised.

Cefnogwn yr hyn y ceisiwch ei wneud. Mae’n bwysig y cyflwynir neges genedlaethol unedig y prynhawn yma. Edrychwn ymlaen at yr ymchwiliad llawn a’r canlyniadau a’r casgliadau y gallwn eu tynnu ohono. Yr wyf yn sicr y trafodir y mater yn y Pwyllgor Amaethyddiaeth a Datblygu Gwledig a’i drafod ymhellach yn y Cyfarfod Llawn. Yn y cyfamser, yr ydym yn eich cefnogi, ond byddwn yn ddiolchgar pe gallech fynd i’r afael â’r pwyntiau a godais.

Carwyn Jones spoken in English p. 33

Carwyn Jones siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 33

An audit was carried out last week of stocks of disinfectant in the divisional offices. No shortages were detected. If there are localised problems, farmers can contact us to see how they might be resolved. Inevitably, in a situation such as this, people will fear that supplies are insufficient. Elin raised the point about disinfecting cars coming from Anglesey. I understand that the police are considering having cars drive through disinfected straw. That in itself is not enough to stop the spread of the disease because it could be spread in an airborne manner and easily cross the Menai Straits. It has been known in the past to travel up to 150 miles through the air. While we can enforce measures that may mitigate the spread of the disease, if it becomes airborne it will be more of a problem.

Cynhaliwyd archwiliad yr wythnos diwethaf o’r cyflenwadau o ddiheintyddion yn y swyddfeydd rhanbarthol. Ni chanfuwyd unrhyw brinder. Os ceir problemau lleol, gall ffermwyr gysylltu â ni i weld sut y gellid eu datrys. Yn anochel, mewn sefyllfa o’r fath, bydd pobl yn ofni na fydd cyflenwadau digonol. Cododd Elin y pwynt ynghylch diheintio ceir yn dod o Ynys Môn. Deallaf fod yr heddlu yn ystyried trefnu i geir yrru drwy wellt wedi’i ddiheintio. Nid yw hynny ynddo’i hun yn ddigon i atal y clwy rhag lledu oherwydd gallai ledu yn yr aer a gallai groesi Afon Menai yn hawdd. Yn y gorffennol gwyddom ei fod wedi teithio hyd at 150 milltir drwy’r awyr. Er y gallwn orfodi mesurau a allai arafu lledu’r clwy, os caiff ei gludo yn yr aer bydd yn fwy o broblem.

It would be wrong at this stage to suggest that there will be a giant compensation package. We have to make clear to people that there must be discussions about what will happen when the disease is brought under control and when it is eradicated. I recognise the difficulties that farmers face and the problems that there may be in building up the markets that have been lost as a result of this disease coming to Wales. I will convey these points strongly when I meet with colleagues from the rest of the United Kingdom. I am sure that they will say the same. We will wait and see what will be put together. The seriousness of the situation is not lost on me or on other UK Ministers.

Byddai’n anghywir ar hyn o bryd awgrymu y bydd pecyn iawndal enfawr ar gael. Rhaid inni esbonio’n glir i bobl y bydd yn rhaid cynnal trafodaethau ynghylch beth fydd yn digwydd pan gaiff y clwy ei reoli a phan gaiff ei ddiddymu. Cydnabyddaf yr anawsterau a wynebir gan ffermwyr a’r problemau a allai godi o ran ail-adeiladu’r marchnadoedd a gollwyd o ganlyniad i’r clwy hwn yn lledu i Gymru. Byddaf yn cyfleu’r pwyntiau hyn yn gryf pan fyddaf yn cwrdd â chyd-Aelodau o weddill y Deyrnas Unedig. Hyderaf y byddant o’r un farn â mi. Arhoswn i weld beth gaiff ei drefnu. Yr wyf i a gweddill Gweinidogion y DU yn llwyr ymwybodol o ddifrifoldeb y sefyllfa.

As for agri-monetary compensation, it should be paid. Nick Brown shares that view and he has raised the issue with the Treasury. That in itself is not enough to compensate farmers after the outbreak of foot and mouth disease, which is the greatest blow of all. I raised this with him last week and again yesterday when I met him in Brussels. He is aware of my views and I have no problem in making it clear that Welsh farmers need that money.

Mewn perthynas ag iawndal amaeth-arianyddol, credaf y dylid ei dalu. Mae Nick Brown yn yn rhannu’r farn honno a chododd y cwestiwn gyda’r Trysorlys. Nid yw hynny ynddo’i hun yn ddigon i ddigolledu ffermwyr ar ôl achosion o glwy’r traed a’r genau, sef yr ergyd fwyaf iddynt. Codais y mater hwn gydag ef yr wythnos diwethaf ac eto ddoe pan gyfarfûm ag ef ym Mrwsel. Mae’n ymwybodol o’m safbwyntiau ac nid oes gennyf broblem pwysleisio bod angen yr arian hwnnw ar ffermwyr Cymru.

On the communication of information, you raised the situation in Gaerwen. Clearly, farmers will want to know the timescale regarding the entry of this particular lamb into the abattoir and the contacts that were potentially made after that. As soon as that information is clear it will be made public. The dissemination of accurate information is extremely important. I will hold a press conference daily to brief people about the situation. That will stop ghost reports such as that farms in Tregaron are being examined. I have already mentioned the situation there. The dissemination of information is extremely important and I pay tribute to the media for its work in publicising the measures that had to be taken. I hope that that continues.

O ran cyfleu gwybodaeth, soniasoch am y sefyllfa yng Ngaerwen. Yn amlwg, bydd ffermwyr am wybod beth oedd yr amserlen o ran yr oen hwn yn cyrraedd y lladd-dy a’r cysylltiadau posibl a wnaethpwyd wedi hynny. Cyn gynted ag y bydd yr wybodaeth honno’n glir, fe’i cyflwynir i’r cyhoedd. Mae dosbarthu gwybodaeth gywir yn holl bwysig. Byddaf yn cynnal cynhadledd i’r wasg yn ddyddiol i hysbysu pobl am y sefyllfa. Bydd hynny yn atal ffug adroddiadau fel y rhai am ffermydd yn Nhregaron yn cael eu harchwilio. Crybwyllais y sefyllfa yno eisoes. Mae dosbarthu gwybodaeth yn holl bwysig a hoffwn dalu teyrnged i’r cyfryngau am ei waith yn rhoi cyhoeddusrwydd i’r mesurau y bu’n rhaid eu cymryd. Gobeithiaf y bydd hynny’n parhau.

Christine Gwyther spoken in English p. 34

Christine Gwyther siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 34

Thank you for your statement and for the hard work that you and the department have been doing at this dreadfully difficult time. You are right to concentrate on eradicating the disease throughout the UK. We all want to see Wales exporting again, but we must concentrate on containment and eradication now.

Diolch yn fawr i chi am eich datganiad ac am y gwaith caled yr ydych chi a’ch adran wedi’i wneud ar yr amser ofnadwy o anodd hwn. Yr oedd yn addas i chi ganolbwyntio ar ddiddymu’r clwy o’r DU gyfan. Yr ydym am weld Cymru yn allforio eto, ond rhaid inni ganolbwyntio ar gyfyngu a diddymu ar hyn o bryd.

A constituent phoned my office this morning to say that his neighbour’s sheep were straying onto his land. I often get calls like that; I imagine that if it were pigs that were straying, with the greater threat that they pose, he would be even more upset. However, he was still concerned that sheep were straying onto his land and asked what he could do about it. He rang the divisional office and was informed that it was beyond its control and that it had no powers to intervene. Is this true? If so, bearing in mind the movement restrictions that are in place at the moment, can we do anything to alleviate the problem of straying animals?

Ffoniodd un o’m hetholwyr fy swyddfa y bore yma i ddweud bod defaid ei gymydog yn crwydro ar ei dir. Yr wyf yn cael galwadau fel hynny yn aml; dychmygwch y sefyllfa pe bai moch wedi bod yn crwydro, a’r bygythiad mwy sydd ynghlwm â hwy, byddai wedi cynhyrfu llawer mwy. Fodd bynnag, yr oedd yn pryderu o hyd bod defaid yn crwydro ar ei dir a gofynnodd beth allai ei wneud am y peth. Ffoniodd y swyddfa ranbarthol ac fe’i hysbyswyd bod hyn y tu hwnt i’w rheolaeth ac nad oedd ganddi unrhyw bwerau i ymyrryd. A yw hyn yn wir? Os felly, gan gadw mewn cof y cyfyngiadau sydd mewn grym ar hyn o bryd o ran symud anifeiliaid, a allwn ni wneud unrhyw beth i leddfu’r broblem o anifeiliaid yn crwydro?

More generally—you referred to getting the message across earlier—will you write to all farmers to explain what they must do to safeguard their animals and those on neighbouring farms? The situation changes daily. Today it has changed hourly. We had grim news today. Surely there must be basic guidelines that we could send out that could be put in place whether a farmer is in an affected zone or not. How do we get the information that will help alleviate the problem to farmers?

Yn fwy cyffredinol—cyfeiriasoch at gyfleu’r neges yn gynharach—a fyddwch yn ysgrifennu at bob ffermwr i esbonio’r hyn y dylent ei wneud i ddiogelu eu hanifeiliaid a’r rhai ar ffermydd cyfagos? Mae’r sefyllfa’n newid yn ddyddiol. Heddiw mae wedi newid bob awr. Cawsom newyddion llym heddiw. Rhaid bod canllawiau sylfaenol y gallem eu dosbarthu y gellir eu rhoi ar waith pa un a yw ffermwr o fewn ardal yr effeithiwyd arni ai peidio. Sut gallwn ni gael gafael ar yr wybodaeth a fydd yn helpu i leddfu’r broblem i ffermwyr?

Carwyn Jones spoken in English p. 35

Carwyn Jones siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 35

I am concerned that the disease has been found in sheep. If it is discovered in hill sheep it will be far more difficult to control because sheep roam and know no boundaries. Where farmers have fences, it is their responsibility to mend those fences and keep them in good repair. However, you raise the wider question of what happens if the disease crosses into upland sheep farming areas. That would be a disaster; there is no other way of describing it. It is difficult to spot the symptoms in sheep—it is far easier in other animals. Sheep are renowned for their ability to get into every nook and cranny. It would be difficult to check them all. That is why we must ensure that we do as much as possible to ensure that the disease is contained. At the moment it is contained in an abattoir. That is better than if the disease were to be found in sheep on the hills. Where it is possible to stop sheep from straying by keeping fences in good repair, I appeal to people to do so and control the spread of the disease.

Yr wyf yn bryderus o glywed y canfuwyd y clwy mewn defaid. Os caiff ei ganfod mewn defaid mynydd bydd yn llawer anoddach i’w reoli oherwydd bod defaid yn crwydro ac nid ydynt yn ymwybodol o ffiniau. Pan fydd gan ffermwyr ffensys, eu cyfrifoldeb hwy yw atgyweirio’r ffensys hynny a’u cadw mewn cyflwr da. Fodd bynnag, codwch y cwestiwn ehangach sef beth fyddai’n digwydd pe bai’r clwy yn cyrraedd ardaloedd ffermio defaid mynyddig. Byddai hynny’n drychinebus, nid oes unrhyw ffordd arall o’i ddisgrifio. Mae’n anodd adnabod y symptomau mewn defaid—mae’n llawer haws mewn anifeiliaid eraill. Mae defaid yn enwog am eu gallu i gyrraedd pob twll a chornel. Byddai’n anodd archwilio pob un ohonynt. Dyna pam y mae’n rhaid inni wneud cymaint ag y gallwn i sicrhau y caiff y clwy ei reoli. Ar hyn o bryd, mae wedi’i reoli mewn lladd-dy. Mae hynny’n well na phe bai’r clwy yn cael ei ganfod mewn defaid ar y bryniau. Lle bynnag y bo’n bosibl atal defaid rhag crwydro drwy gadw’r ffensys mewn cyflwr da, erfyniaf ar bobl i wneud hynny ac i reoli lledu’r clwy.

The unions have raised the matter of writing to farmers. Letters would be ineffective because the situation changes so quickly. It takes time to send out about 250,000 letters. By that time the advice might well be obsolete. Another factor is that it could encourage the spread of the disease by sending postal vans to every farm in Wales. We do not want to encourage that and it may be ineffective anyway. I appeal to farmers to firstly contact the helpline if they have specific questions and secondly, to listen to the news every night to ensure that they are aware of the current situation. Letters would not be sufficiently quick, and—as you said—the situation changes hourly.

Mae’r undebau wedi codi’r mater o ysgrifennu at ffermwyr. Byddai llythyrau’n aneffeithiol oherwydd bod y sefyllfa’n newid mor gyflym. Mae’n cymryd amser i anfon tua 250,000 o lythyrau. Erbyn hynny, efallai y byddai’r cyngor wedi’i ddisodli gan gyngor arall. Ffactor arall yw y gallai annog y clwy i ledu drwy anfon faniau post i bob fferm yng Nghymru. Nid ydym am annog hynny ac efallai y byddai’n aneffeithiol beth bynnag. Apeliaf ar ffermwyr i gysylltu’n gyntaf â’r llinell gymorth os oes ganddynt gwestiynau penodol ac yn ail, i wrando ar y newyddion bob nos er mwyn sicrhau eu bod yn ymwybodol o’r sefyllfa gyfredol. Ni fyddai llythyrau’n ddigon cyflym, ac—fel y dywedasoch—mae’r sefyllfa’n newid bob awr.

Janet Ryder spoken in English p. 36

Janet Ryder siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 36

In your statement, you used the word ‘trauma’ in referring to the situation that faces farmers. That aptly sums up how farmers feel at the moment. You also mentioned the need to disinfect vehicles as they come on and off Anglesey. The press has reported responsibly so far, but the BBC web page today ran a story that supplies of disinfectant may run out. I am pleased that you answered that question. However, there are also fears that there may be a shortage of straw. Can you answer that? Have you considered that issue, to ensure that there is plenty of straw and disinfectant available, and not simply on the roads? Will you consider the situation in Holyhead?

Yn eich datganiad, defnyddiasoch y gair ‘trawma’ wrth gyfeirio at y sefyllfa sydd yn wynebu’r ffermwyr. Mae hynny’n ddisgrifiad addas o sut y mae ffermwyr yn teimlo ar hyn o bryd. Soniasoch hefyd am yr angen i ddiheintio cerbydau wrth iddynt fynd i Ynys Môn ac oddi yno. Cyflwynwyd adroddiadau cyfrifol hyd yma yn y wasg, ond yr oedd stori ar wefan y BBC heddiw yn dweud y gallai cyflenwadau diheintyddion ddod i ben. Yr wyf yn falch eich bod wedi ateb y cwestiwn hwnnw. Fodd bynnag, ceir pryderon hefyd y bydd prinder gwellt o bosibl. A allwch ateb hynny? A ydych wedi ystyried y mater hwnnw, sef sicrhau bod digon o wellt a diheintyddion ar gael, ac nid dim ond ar y ffyrdd? A wnewch chi ystyried y sefyllfa yng Nghaergybi?

You also mentioned the closure of public footpaths. We fully support your work on that. However, will you bear in mind that closing public footpaths and the policing of it, as more restriction Orders are brought in, will place an increasing burden on local authorities and the police? You may need to look at the resources available to help them carry out that work.

Soniasoch hefyd am gau llwybrau cyhoeddus. Yr ydym yn cefnogi eich gwaith ar hyn yn llwyr. Fodd bynnag, a wnewch chi gadw mewn cof y bydd cau llwybrau cyhoeddus a phlismona hynny, wrth i fwy o Orchmynion cyfyngu gael eu cyflwyno, yn gosod mwy o faich ar awdurdodau lleol a’r heddlu? Efallai y dylech edrych ar yr adnoddau sydd ar gael i’w helpu i wneud y gwaith hwnnw.

You also talked about introducing an information room. I was in the agriculture department in Caernarfon yesterday when the information room, help desk and telephone lines were set up. The response from officials was amazing and I take this opportunity to thank them for the work that they will carry out over the next few weeks. Many of them volunteered to work extra hours to operate the lines. They are the frontline officials. They will deal with questions from the public and from farmers. They made the point that information also needs to be sent directly to them. Where information from MAFF is sent to you and to Cardiff, can you ensure that it is also sent to the divisional offices so that they can answer the many queries that they receive?

Soniasoch hefyd am gyflwyno ystafell wybodaeth. Yr oeddwn yn yr adran amaethyddiaeth yng Nghaernarfon ddoe pan sefydlwyd yr ystafell wybodaeth, y ddesg gymorth a’r llinellau ffôn. Yr oedd ymateb y swyddogion yn wych a chymeraf y cyfle hwn i ddiolch iddynt am y gwaith a wnânt yn ystod yr ychydig wythnosau nesaf. Gwirfoddolodd nifer ohonynt i weithio oriau ychwanegol er mwyn gweithredu’r llinellau. Hwy yw’r swyddogion yn y llinell flaen. Byddant yn delio â chwestiynau gan y cyhoedd a chan ffermwyr. Dywedasant bod angen anfon yr wybodaeth hefyd yn uniongyrchol atynt. Pan anfonir gwybodaeth gan y Weinyddiaeth Amaethyddiaeth, Pysgodfeydd a Bwyd atoch chi ac i Gaerdydd, a wnewch chi sicrhau y caiff ei hanfon hefyd i’r swyddfeydd rhanbarthol er mwyn iddynt allu ateb yr ymholiadau niferus a dderbyniant?

I also want to reinforce people’s comments about being responsible. We all have a responsibility to ensure that this disease does not spread. This is an issue on the outskirts of small towns, villages and larger towns where people walk their dogs in the countryside. Everybody must be vigilant. I welcome the fact that you will give regular, updated news broadcasts on this to keep everybody, not just farmers, informed of the situation.

Hoffwn hefyd atgyfnerthu sylwadau pobl am fod yn gyfrifol. Mae gennym oll gyfrifoldeb i sicrhau nad yw’r clwy hwn yn lledu. Mae hyn yn fater ar gyrion trefi bach, pentrefi a threfi mwy lle mae pobl yn cerdded eu cŵn yn y wlad. Rhaid i bawb fod yn wyliadwrus. Croesawaf y ffaith y byddwch yn rhoi darllediadau newyddion cyfredol a rheolaidd er mwyn sicrhau bod pawb, nid dim ond y ffermwyr, yn ymwybodol o’r sefyllfa.

Carwyn Jones spoken in English p. 37

Carwyn Jones siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 37

If people are aware of shortages of straw or disinfectant, they must let us know about it as soon as possible. We are not currently aware of such a problem. With regard to disinfectant, the stocks were checked last week. If there are difficulties, people can ring the phone numbers provided.

Os bydd pobl yn ymwybodol o brinderau gwellt a diheintyddion, rhaid iddynt roi gwybod inni cyn gynted â phosibl. Nid ydym yn ymwybodol ar hyn o bryd o broblem o’r fath. O ran diheintyddion, archwiliwyd y cyflenwadau yr wythnos diwethaf. Os bydd anawsterau, gall pobl ffonio’r rhifau a ddarparwyd.

On the question of Holyhead, the abattoir in Gaerwen is close to the dual carriageway that runs through Angelsey. That may create problems in terms of the spread of the disease. I wish to be guided by the scientific advice of vetinarians, and where that advice indicates that the disease is in danger of spreading beyond the abattoir, action must be taken. However, the cruel nature of the disease is such that it can be spread in many ways. It can be spread on people’s feet. It can be spread on car tyres. It can be spread when people return from holiday, without them even knowing that they carry the virus. It can even be spread through the air, so that it can be spread from one country to another without any other contact. That is how virulent the disease is. It is particularly virulent in pigs, which is why they tend to be the originators of the illness.

Ynglŷn â Chaergybi, mae’r lladd-dy yng Ngaerwen yn agos at y ffordd ddeuol sydd yn rhedeg drwy Ynys Môn. Gallai hynny greu problemau o ran lledu’r clwy. Hoffwn gael fy arwain gan gyngor gwyddonol milfeddygon, a phan fo’r cyngor hwnnw’n awgrymu y gallai’r clwy ledu y tu hwnt i’r lladd-dy, bydd yn rhaid cymryd camau. Fodd bynnag, golyga natur greulon y clwy y gallai ledu mewn sawl ffordd. Gall ledu ar draed pobl. Gall ledu ar deiars ceir. Gall ledu pan fo pobl yn dychwelyd o’u gwyliau, heb iddynt wybod eu bod yn cario’r firws. Gall ledu drwy’r aer hyd yn oed, felly gall ledu o un wlad i’r llall heb unrhyw gyswllt arall. Dyna pa mor heintus yw’r clwy. Mae’n arbennig o heintus mewn moch, a dyna pam mai o blith moch yn aml y mae’r salwch yn deillio.

Last week, I was pleased to receive several e-mails and letters from ramblers groups that had decided not to go walking. That was responsible. Not everybody, of course, is a member of an organised walking group. We saw on television what happened over the weekend. That is not to be welcomed and it means that this Order must be introduced.

Yr oeddwn yn falch i dderbyn negeseuon e-bost a llythyrau yr wythnos diwethaf gan grwpiau cerdded a benderfynodd roi’r gorau i gerdded. Yr oedd hynny’n beth cyfrifol i’w wneud. Wrth gwrs, nid yw pawb yn aelod o grŵp cerdded trefnus. Gwelsom ar y teledu yr hyn a ddigwyddodd dros y penwythnos. Ni chroesawn hynny a golyga bod yn rhaid cyflwyno’r Gorchymyn hwn.

In terms of policing, as with any law, you rely on the vast majority of people keeping to it. If the vast majority of people break a law, it becomes almost impossible to police. However, with this Order in place, I am sure that people will understand that they can be fined for this offence. That will deter them. Most people in this country are law abiding. I am sure that once they see this Order they will understand the seriousness of the situation and will not want to break the law.

Yn nhermau plismona, fel gydag unrhyw gyfraith, gallwch ddibynnu ar y mwyafrif helaeth o bobl i lynu ati. Os bydd y mwyafrif helaeth o bobl yn torri’r gyfraith, bydd yn amhosibl bron i’w phlismona. Fodd bynnag, gyda’r Gorchymyn hwn mewn grym, yr wyf yn siŵr y bydd pobl yn deall y gellir eu dirwyo am y drosedd hon. Bydd hynny yn eu rhwystro. Mae’r rhan fwyaf o bobl yn y wlad hon yn parchu’r gyfraith a phan welant y Gorchymyn hwn byddant yn deall difrifoldeb y sefyllfa ac ni fyddant am dorri’r gyfraith.

Finally, as someone who has visited all the divisional offices and spent much time speaking to staff, I have always been impressed by the depth of support that is shown for farmers. I know that many farmers think that divisional offices are there to foil them. There are times when the relationship is difficult, because forms have been filled in incorrectly, and there are occasions when farmers feel frustrated. However, I have generally been impressed by the caring nature of the people who work in the divisional offices. I am not surprised that people gave their spare time to help to set up this monitoring room in Caernarfon. That is typical of most, if not all, the staff in divisional offices. I know that they are listening to this debate and they will hear your comments.

I gloi, fel rhywun sydd wedi ymweld â’r holl swyddfeydd rhanbarthol ac wedi treulio llawer o amser yn siarad â staff, y mae maint y gefnogaeth a ddangosir i’r ffermwyr yn aruthrol. Gwn fod nifer o ffermwyr o’r farn bod y swyddfeydd rhanbarthol yn bodoli i’w rhwystro. Ceir cyfnodau pan fo’r berthynas yn anodd, oherwydd bod ffurflenni wedi’u llenwi’n anghywir a cheir achosion pan fo’r ffermwyr yn teimlo’n rhwystredig. Fodd bynnag, mae natur gofalgar y bobl sydd yn gweithio yn y swyddfeydd rhanbarthol wedi creu argraff dda arnaf ar y cyfan. Ni synnaf y rhoddodd pobl o’u hamser hamdden i helpu i sefydlu’r ystafell fonitro yng Nghaernarfon. Mae hynny’n nodweddiadol o’r rhan fwyaf o’r staff, os nad pob un ohonynt, yn y swyddfeydd rhanbarthol. Gwn eu bod yn gwrando ar y ddadl hon ac y byddant yn clywed eich sylwadau.

Mick Bates spoken in English p. 38

Mick Bates siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 38

I declare an interest as a farmer. Thank you for your statement. I am pleased that we are not making political capital out of what is clearly a national disaster. This is a sad day and this grim news only adds to the pressure and depression that already exists in many parts of rural Wales. So far, 15 cases have been identified in Britain and it is sad to hear that a further case has been identified on Anglesey.

Datganaf fuddiant fel ffermwr. Diolch ichi am eich datganiad. Yr wyf yn falch nad ydym yn ceisio elwa’n wleidyddol yn sgîl rhywbeth sydd yn amlwg yn drychineb genedlaethol. Mae heddiw’n ddiwrnod trist ac mae’r newyddion llym hwn ond yn ychwanegu at y pwysau a’r iselder ysbryd sydd eisoes yn bodoli mewn nifer o ardaloedd gwledig yng Nghymru. Hyd yma, nodwyd 15 o achosion ym Mhrydain ac mae’n drist clywed y nodwyd achos arall yn Ynys Môn.

I am a member of an industry that has overcome many problems in recent years, and this is a killer blow to many of us. I fear, Minister, that we are looking at the end of livestock farming in many parts of the country. I am sure that our thoughts are with these farmers, their families and other rural businesses today—those at the frontline of this horrible crisis. I think of my own family, particularly my son who is trying to start a business. I also think about many of my neighbours, who are looking to the Assembly to take the lead. I am sure that all Assembly Members express their support to this industry and will ensure that the Minister and his Cabinet provide support to those affected by this crisis. We also think of our colleague, Peter Rogers. His farm has been affected and is now in an exclusion zone. It is a tragedy for all concerned.

Yr wyf yn aelod o ddiwydiant sydd wedi goresgyn nifer o broblemau yn ystod y blynyddoedd diwethaf, ac mae hyn yn ergyd farwol i lawer ohonom. Pryderaf, Weinidog, ein bod yn gweld diwedd ffermio anifeiliaid mewn sawl rhan o’r wlad. Nid oes angen dweud bod y ffermwyr hyn, eu teuluoedd a busnesau gwledig eraill yn ein meddyliau heddiw—y rhai sydd yn wynebu’r argyfwng ofnadwy hwn yn uniongyrchol. Meddyliaf am fy nheulu fy hun, yn arbennig fy mab sydd yn ceisio sefydlu ei fusnes ei hun. Meddyliaf hefyd am nifer o’m cymdogion, sydd yn edrych i’r Cynulliad gymryd yr arweiniad ar hyn. Yr wyf yn sicr bod holl Aelodau’r Cynulliad yn cefnogi’r diwydiant hwn ac yn sicrhau y bydd y Gweinidog a’i Gabinet yn darparu cymorth i’r rhai yr effeithiwyd arnynt gan yr argyfwng hwn. Cydymdeimlwn hefyd â’n cyd-Aelod, Peter Rogers. Effeithiwyd ar ei fferm ac mae bellach mewn ardal eithrio. Mae’n drasiedi i bawb sydd yn gysylltiedig â hyn.

I would like your assurance that you have sufficient resources and staff to stop this disease from spreading further. You have already answered some questions about not writing letters to farmers. You said that the unions will do that job and I am sure that they will do it well. However, not all farmers are union members. Do we have sufficient staff to identify the source of this disease, so that we may learn lessons for the future if, indeed, it came from imported food? I would also like to hear your view on vaccination against foot and mouth disease, which I have been asked about regularly. Why is the disease controlled with restrictions, quarantine and slaughter in this country?

Hoffwn gael eich sicrwydd bod gennych adnoddau a staff digonol i rwystro’r clwy hwn rhag lledu ymhellach. Yr ydych eisoes wedi ateb rhai cwestiynau ynghylch peidio ag ysgrifennu llythyrau at ffermwyr. Dywedasoch y byddai’r undebau’n gwneud hynny ac yr wyf yn sicr y gwnânt hynny’n dda. Fodd bynnag, nid yw pob ffermwr yn aelod o undeb. A oes digon o staff gennym i nodi ffynhonnell y clwy hwn, er mwyn inni ddysgu gwersi ar gyfer y dyfodol os, yn wir, y daeth o fwyd wedi’i fewnforio? Hoffwn eich barn hefyd am frechu yn erbyn clwy’r traed a’r genau, y mae pobl wedi gofyn i mi amdano’n rheolaidd. Pam y rheolir y clwy gyda chyfyngiadau, cwarantin a lladd anifeiliaid yn y wlad hon?

I am pleased that you have seen the need for licences to allow people who are not directly affected to sell livestock. I would like your assurance that those licences will soon be available and that all farmers who have stock to sell will not be further handicapped by having to keep livestock for so long. You mentioned the 30 months’ rule. However, there are many farmers with sheep to sell and, as you know, by the time those sheep are one year old, and have two teeth, their value is half what it was when they were classified as lambs.

Yr wyf yn falch eich bod wedi gweld yr angen am drwyddedau i ganiatáu i bobl nad effeithiwyd arnynt yn uniongyrchol i werthu eu hanifeiliaid. Hoffwn eich sicrwydd y bydd y trwyddedau hynny ar gael yn fuan ac na fydd gorfod cadw anifeiliad cyhyd yn llesteirio ymhellach yr holl ffermwyr sydd ag anifeiliaid i’w gwerthu. Soniasoch am y rheol 30 mis. Fodd bynnag, mae gan nifer o ffermwyr ddefaid i’w gwerthu ac, fel y gwyddoch, erbyn i’r defaid hynny fod yn flwydd oed, a bod ganddynt ddau ddant, mae eu gwerth wedi hanneru o’r swm yr oedd pan gawsant eu dosbarthu fel ŵyn.

I would also like to hear what you are doing to provide information to the Post Office, for example, about getting to farms, and especially to local authorities. I have seen the advice sent yesterday and the day before to local authorities, which was rather lengthy. It should be more concise, so that authorities can get on with the job of protecting their areas, particularly rural areas. I would also like to hear more about the farms affected in Powys. In view of the statement made by the Leader of the Welsh Conservatives, I hope that the investigation into when the diseased lamb arrived at Gaerwen is clear so that those farmers who had stock returned from that abattoir can be certain that they are not carrying the disease.

Hoffwn glywed hefyd beth yr ydych yn ei wneud i ddarparu gwybodaeth i Swyddfa’r Post, er enghraifft, ynghylch cyrraedd ffermydd, ac yn arbennig i awdurdodau lleol. Gwelais y cyngor a anfonwyd ddoe a’r diwrnod cynt i awdurdodau lleol, a oedd braidd yn hirfaith. Dylai fod yn fwy cryno, er mwyn i awdurdodau barhau â’u gwaith o ddiogelu eu hardaloedd, yn arbennig ardaloedd gwledig. Hoffwn glywed mwy hefyd am y ffermydd yr effeithiwyd arnynt ym Mhowys. Yng ngoleuni’r datganiad a wnaethpwyd gan Arweinydd Ceidwadwyr Cymru, gobeithiaf y bydd yr ymchwiliad i’r amser y cyrhaeddodd yr oen heintus Gaerwen yn glir er mwyn i’r ffermwyr hynny y dychwelwyd eu stoc o’r lladd-dy hwnnw fod yn sicr nad ydynt yn cario’r clwy.

Finally, I am sure that you have all our support. The Liberal Democrat group supports everything that has been done so swiftly. I hope that you will ensure that information is forthcoming to us at all occasions so that we may keep our constituents, and particularly those of our friends who are farmers, informed.

I gloi, hyderaf ein bod oll yn eich cefnogi. Mae grŵp y Democratiaid Rhyddfrydol yn cefnogi popeth a wnaethpwyd mor gyflym. Gobeithiaf y byddwch yn sicrhau y darperir gwybodaeth inni bob amser er mwyn inni allu hysbysu ein hetholwyr, ac yn arbennig ein cyfeillion sydd yn ffermwyr.

Carwyn Jones spoken in English p. 40

Carwyn Jones siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 40

There will come a time, when the disease has been eradicated, when we will consider how to reconstruct the industry. Today is not the time to elaborate on that. However, we have pursued many good policies for farmers in the National Assembly: Farming Connect, Tir Mynydd—getting the best for Wales from that scheme—and the school milk scheme for example. They will count for nothing if this disease gets a grip and spreads. Much damage has already been done. It will be important, once the disease is eradicated, that we consider many ways of ensuring that farming is able to reconstruct. Your point about farming potentially coming to an end in many parts of Wales is quite a serious threat and will have to be dealt with.

Daw amser, pan fydd y clwy wedi’i ddiddymu, pan fyddwn yn ystyried sut i ail-adeiladu’r diwydiant. Nid heddiw yw’r amser i ymhelaethu ar hynny. Fodd bynnag, yr ydym wedi trafod nifer o bolisïau da ar gyfer ffermwyr yn y Cynulliad Cenedlaethol: Cyswllt Ffermio, Tir Mynydd—sicrhau’r gorau i Gymru o’r cynllun hwnnw—a’r cynllun llaeth ysgol er enghraifft. Ni fyddant yn golygu unrhyw beth os bydd y clwy hwn yn cydio ac yn lledu. Gwnaethpwyd niwed sylweddol eisoes. Bydd yn bwysig, unwaith y diddymir y clwy, y byddwn yn ystyried nifer o ffyrdd i sicrhau y gellir ail-adeiladu’r diwydiant ffermio. Mae eich pwynt ynghylch y posibilrwydd o ffermio’n dod i ben mewn sawl rhan o Gymru’n fygythiad eithaf difrifol a bydd angen delio â hynny.

You mentioned many other matters. I have not told the unions to write to farmers, but it is important in a situation such as this that information circulates as quickly as possible. That means using electronic media rather than sending out letters. I cannot give an assurance that the disease will not spread. No-one on this planet can say that. Staff are working flat out, and their professionalism and dedication to their work is ensuring that the spread of the disease is minimised and that the day when the disease is checked and eradicated is coming closer. The source of the disease is in Northumberland. It is not a matter for us, but much work is being done there to identify the source of the outbreak. It is pointless to speculate at this stage as to what that source might be. There are many ways in which the infection could have spread to that farm. We must wait and see what results the investigations bring.

Soniasoch am sawl mater arall. Nid wyf wedi dweud wrth yr undebau i ysgrifennu at ffermwyr, ond mae’n bwysig mewn sefyllfa o’r fath y dosberthir gwybodaeth cyn gynted â phosibl. Golyga hynny ddefnyddio cyfrwng electronig yn hytrach nag anfon llythyrau. Ni allaf roi sicrwydd na fydd y clwy yn lledu. Ni all unrhyw un ar y blaned hon ddweud hynny. Mae staff yn gweithio’n ddi-baid, ac mae eu natur broffesiynol a’u hymrwymiad i’w gwaith yn sicrhau nad yw’r clwy yn lledu fawr ddim ac mae’r dydd pan ddiddymir y clwy yn nesáu. Mae ffynhonnell y clwy yn Northumberland. Nid mater i ni yw hynny, ond mae llawer o waith yn cael ei wneud i nodi ffynhonnell y clwy. Mae’n ddiwerth damcaniaethu ar hyn o bryd o ran lleoliad y ffynhonnell honno. Mae sawl ffordd y gallai’r haint fod wedi lledu i’r fferm honno. Rhaid inni aros a gweld beth fydd canlyniadau’r ymchwiliad.

You mentioned vaccination. Yesterday in Brussels, Nick Brown made the point that we value our usual status as a foot and mouth disease-free country. Other countries have to vaccinate. In vaccinating, they automatically lose that status, because the vaccine itself includes a mild form of the virus, which enables the animal to build up immunity. That is not the way that we wish to go. We have certain advantages in that Britain is an island and, as a result, it makes it easier for us to pursue a policy of eradication, therefore preserving a foot and mouth disease-free reputation, than going down the road of vaccination. On licences, the initial order prohibiting the movement of animals expires on Friday. The situation must be reviewed then. It is fair to say that it is impossible at this stage, without knowing what the progress of the disease will be, to say what will happen on Friday. I hope that we can consider introducing the licensing system as soon as is epidemiologically possible. Harold Wilson used to say that a week is a long time in politics—an hour is a long time in politics at the moment with the spread of this disease. We will have to see what happens then.

Soniasoch am frechiad. Ddoe ym Mrwsel, dywedodd Nick Brown ein bod yn gwerthfawrogi ein statws fel gwlad sydd yn rhydd o glwy’r traed a’r genau. Rhaid i wledydd eraill frechu. Wrth frechu, maent yn colli’r statws hwnnw yn awtomatig, oherwydd bod y brechiad ei hun yn cynnwys ffurf ysgafn ar y firws, sydd yn galluogi’r anifail i feithrin imiwnedd. Nid dyma’r llwybr yr ydym am ei ddilyn. Mae gennym rai manteision yn yr ystyr bod Prydain yn ynys ac, o ganlyniad, mae’n ei gwneud hi’n haws inni ddilyn polisi diddymu, gan gadw ein henw da fel gwlad sydd yn rhydd o glwy’r traed a’r genau, yn hytrach na mynd ar drywydd brechu. Ynghylch trwyddedau, daw’r gorchymyn cychwynnol sydd yn atal symud anifeiliaid i ben ddydd Gwener. Rhaid adolygu’r sefyllfa bryd hynny. Mae’n deg dweud ei bod yn amhosibl ar hyn o bryd, heb wybod beth fydd cynnydd y clwy, dweud beth fydd yn digwydd ddydd Gwener. Gobeithiaf y gallwn ystyried cyflwyno’r system drwyddedu cyn gynted ag y bo’n bosibl yn epidemiolegol. Arferai Harold Wilson ddweud bod wythnos yn amser hir mewn gwleidyddiaeth—mae awr yn amser hir mewn gwleidyddiaeth ar hyn o bryd gyda’r clwy hwn yn lledu. Bydd yn rhaid inni aros i weld beth fydd yn digwydd bryd hynny.

You mentioned the guidelines, and in many ways, the fact that you described them as being too lengthy is praiseworthy, but I accept your point on the need for them to be concise. We issued guidelines to many organisations on Thursday and further guidelines followed yesterday on what should be done to minimise the risk of spreading this disease.

Soniasoch am y canllawiau ac, mewn sawl ffordd, mae’r ffaith eich bod wedi’u disgrifio fel hirfaith yn ganmoladwy, ond derbyniaf eich pwynt y dylent fod yn gryno. Cyhoeddasom ganllawiau i nifer o sefydliadau ddydd Iau a chyflwynwyd canllawiau pellach ddoe ar yr hyn y dylid ei wneud i leihau’r risg y bydd y clwy hwn yn lledu.

You used the words, ‘farms infected in Powys’, but I have to caution you against such language as there are no confirmed cases of the disease in Powys, and I must emphasise that. Three cases are currently under investigation. The case in Gaerwen was confirmed, but others were cleared. They are suspect cases and we will have to wait and see the results of them, but there is no confirmation of infection in Powys or Gwent.

Defnyddiasoch eiriau fel ‘ffermydd yr effeithiwyd arnynt ym Mhowys’, ond dylwn eich rhybuddio rhag defnyddio iaith o’r fath gan na chadarnhawyd unrhyw achosion ym Mhowys, a rhaid imi bwysleisio hynny. Mae tri achos yn destun archwiliad ar hyn o bryd. Cadarnhawyd yr achos yng Ngaerwen, ond cliriwyd y gweddill. Achosion a amheuir ydynt a bydd yn rhaid inni aros i weld beth fydd eu canlyniadau, ond ni chadarnhawyd unrhyw achosion o’r haint ym Mhowys nac yng Ngwent.

Dafydd Elis-Thomas The Presiding Officer spoken in English p. 42

Dafydd Elis-Thomas Y Llywydd siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 42

I have allowed an additional 17 minutes for this statement because of its urgency.

Yr wyf wedi caniatáu 17 munud ychwanegol ar gyfer y datganiad hwn oherwydd ei natur brys.

Glyn Davies spoken in English p. 42

Glyn Davies siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 42

I declare an interest as a farmer. I am pleased to have the opportunity to contribute. The issue is too overwhelming for me to think of questions to ask. There are so many that have already been asked and answered. I will share with Members a farmer’s perspective on what is happening. In 1967, I had been the dairy herdsman at the family farm for around six years when the foot and mouth outbreak was confirmed at Oswestry, just 20 miles away from the farm. I remember the fear that it instilled in every farmer’s mind. The paranoia that we all felt led me to visit my livestock every hour, and even in the middle of the night. That is what farmers are going through today.

Datganaf fuddiant fel ffermwr. Yr wyf yn falch o gael y cyfle i gyfrannu. Mae’r mater mor aruthrol fel na allaf feddwl am gwestiynau i’w gofyn. Gofynnwyd ac atebwyd cymaint ohonynt eisoes. Rhannaf safbwynt ffermwr gyda’r Aelodau ar yr hyn sydd yn digwydd. Yn 1967, yr oeddwn wedi bod yn gowmon llaeth ar fferm y teulu ers tua chwe mlynedd pan gadarnhawyd achos o glwy’r traed a’r genau yng Nghroesoswallt, dim ond 20 milltir o’r fferm. Cofiaf yr ofn a gododd hyn ym meddwl pob ffermwr. Achosodd y paranoia yr oeddem oll yn ei deimlo imi ymweld â’m hanifeiliaid bob awr, a hyd yn oed yng nghanol y nos. Dyma beth mae’r ffermwyr yn ei wynebu heddiw.

My social life in 1967 was based around playing rugby football in the west Midlands and northern England. Many of my colleagues and friends were dairy farmers. I remember what happened to those people when their herds went down with foot and mouth disease and were subsequently slaughtered. On the first day, these farmers had a 24-hour a day job caring for their livestock, and then they had a lame cow. On the second day, all their livestock were slaughtered and incinerated in a public place on the farm and their life’s work destroyed. On the third day and for many days thereafter, all they would hear on their farms was the reverberating, eerie sound of silence in their buildings as they waited until they could do something about the matter.

Yr oedd fy mywyd cymdeithasol yn 1967 yn seiliedig ar chwarae rygbi yng ngorllewin Canolbarth Lloegr a gogledd Lloegr. Yr oedd nifer o’m cydweithwyr a’m cyfeillion yn ffermwyr llaeth. Cofiaf beth ddigwyddodd i’r bobl hynny pan ganfuwyd clwy’r traed a’r genau ar eu gyrroedd ac y cawsant eu difa o ganlyniad. Ar y diwrnod cyntaf, yr oedd yn rhaid i’r ffermwyr hyn ofalu am eu hanifeiliaid 24 awr y dydd, yna canfuwyd buwch gloff. Ar yr ail ddiwrnod, lladdwyd eu holl anifeiliaid a’u llosgi mewn lle cyhoeddus ar y fferm a dinistriwyd eu gwaith oes. Ar y trydydd diwrnod ac am ddyddiau lawer wedi hynny, y cyfan y byddent yn ei glywed ar eu ffermydd oedd sŵn diasbedain, iasoer y tawelwch yn eu hadeiladau wrth iddynt aros i weld a allant wneud unrhyw beth am y mater.

We know that almost half a million livestock were slaughtered in public in 1967. That was a massive problem for Britain. At some stage, there will have to be a full-scale debate in this Chamber on its full effects. I support the action that you have taken to deal with this. I will not criticise measures to deal with this crisis as being too draconian. I fully support your announcement today on closing public footpaths. I urge you to press local authorities not only to allow the closure of footpaths, but to encourage them and the press to go as far as they can to close down the countryside. People there are frightened about what this disease will do to their livelihoods.

Gwyddom y lladdwyd bron i hanner miliwn o anifeiliaid yn gyhoeddus yn 1967. Yr oedd hynny’n broblem enfawr i Brydain. Rhywbryd, bydd yn rhaid cynnal dadl gyfan yn y Siambr hon ar effeithiau llawn hyn. Cefnogaf y camau gweithredu a gymerasoch i ddelio â hyn. Ni feirniadaf fod y mesurau a gymerwyd i ddelio â’r argyfwng hwn yn rhy llym. Cefnogaf yn llwyr eich cyhoeddiad heddiw ar gau llwybrau cyhoeddus. Fe’ch anogaf yn gryf i ddarbwyllo awdurdodau lleol nid yn unig i gau llwybrau, ond i’w hannog hwy a’r wasg i fynd cyn belled â chau cefn gwlad yn llwyr. Mae pobl yn ofni beth gallai’r clwy hwn ei wneud i’w bywoliaeth.

I have arranged for someone with extensive veterinary knowledge to be present at tomorrow’s Agriculture and Rural Development Committee meeting to answer the inevitable questions, and we have allowed a significant amount of time to deal with that. Many issues relate to this matter, such as agri-monetary compensation and the control of imports that may or may not be linked to this outbreak. However, my memories of 1967 are such—and they have been awakened by what is happening now—that all I can do today is sympathise with all those who work in the farming industry across Britain, whom I know are living in a state of fear.

Trefnais i rywun sydd yn meddu ar wybodaeth filfeddygol helaeth i fod yn bresennol yng nghyfarfod y Pwyllgor Amaethyddiaeth a Datblygu Gwledig yfory i ateb y cwestiynau anochel, ac yr ydym wedi caniatáu swm sylweddol o amser i ddelio â hynny. Mae nifer o faterion yn gysylltiedig â’r mater hwn, fel iawndal amaeth-arianyddol a rheoli mewnforion a allai fod yn gysylltiedig â’r achosion hyn o’r clwy neu beidio. Fodd bynnag, golyga fy atgofion am 1967—a chawsant eu dihuno gan yr hyn sydd yn digwydd yn awr—mai’r cyfan y gallaf ei wneud yn awr yw cydymdeimlo â phawb sydd yn gweithio yn y diwydiant ffermio ledled Prydain, y gwn sydd yn byw mewn ofn.

Carwyn Jones spoken in English p. 43

Carwyn Jones siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 43

I re-emphasise Glyn’s point that the Order announced today gives exceptional powers to close public footpaths in exceptional times. That Order is not permanent, but needs to be enforced while this situation continues. I say to local authorities that the power is there to be used. It has not been given to them to be put on the shelf. I emphasise that it can be used responsibly under present circumstances. We all listened to what Glyn said about his experiences in 1967. Many questions remain unanswered, which are best dealt with at another time. The Assembly has done all that can be humanly and proportionally done to try to stop the spread of this disease. We may now be seeing the manifestation of the illness in animals that were moved before the ban was imposed when there was no way of identifying the disease, particularly in sheep, because of the long incubation period. The situation must be monitored closely in the next days and weeks. All we can do is wait and see, and hope that the containment and eradication of this disease is near.

Ailbwysleisiaf bwynt Glyn y rhydd y Gorchymyn a gyhoeddwyd heddiw bwerau eithriadol i gau llwybrau cyhoeddus mewn cyfnod eithriadol. Nid yw’r Gorchymyn hwnnw yn un parhaol, ond rhaid ei orfodi tra bod y sefyllfa hon yn parhau. Dywedaf wrth yr awdurdodau lleol bod y pwerau yno i’w defnyddio. Ni chawsant eu rhoi iddynt i’w rhoi ar y silff. Pwysleisiaf y gellir eu defnyddio’n gyfrifol o dan yr amgylchiadau cyfredol. Gwrandawsom oll ar yr hyn a ddywedodd Glyn am ei brofiadau yn 1967. Mae nifer o gwestiynau’n parhau heb eu hateb, a byddai’n well delio â’r rhain eto. Mae’r Cynulliad wedi gwneud popeth o fewn gallu dynol i geisio rhwystro’r clwy hwn rhag lledu. Efallai y gwelwn y salwch yn ymddangos mewn anifeiliaid a symudwyd cyn cyflwyno’r gwaharddiad pan nad oedd unrhyw ffordd o nodi’r clwy, yn arbennig mewn defaid, oherwydd y cyfnod heintus hir. Rhaid monitro’r sefyllfa yn ofalus yn ystod y dyddiau a’r wythnosau nesaf. Y cyfan y gallwn ei wneud yw aros a gweld, a gobeithio y gallwn reoli a diddymu’r clwy hwn yn fuan.

Datganiad Busnes

Business Statement

Andrew Davies The Minister for Assembly Business spoken in English p. 44

Andrew Davies Y Trefnydd siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 44

I announce changes to this week’s business. To accommodate this afternoon’s statement on foot and mouth disease given by my colleague Carwyn Jones, and with the agreement of the Business Committee, I propose to make the following changes to business today and Thursday. I am grateful for the agreement of my colleagues in the Business Committee to this. I propose to move the debate on the sustainable development action plan and the motion to approve the local transport scheme special grant report to Thursday, 1 March. To do this, I will move a procedural motion, in accordance with Standing Order No. 6.10. I will also propose a procedural motion to allow the proposal today of the no-named day motion, that was tabled on 22 February, to approve the Extensification Payments Regulations 2001. This is subordinate legislation made jointly by the Ministry of Agriculture, Fisheries and Food.

Cyhoeddaf newidiadau i fusnes yr wythnos hon. I roi lle i ddatganiad y prynhawn yma ar glwy’r traed a’r genau a roddir gan fy nghyd-Aelod Carwyn Jones, a chyda chytundeb y Pwyllgor Busnes, cynigiaf wneud y newidiadau canlynol i fusnes heddiw a dydd Iau. Yr wyf yn ddiolchgar bod fy nghyd-Aelodau yn y Pwyllgor Busnes wedi cytuno ar hyn. Cynigiaf symud y ddadl ar y cynllun gweithredu datblygu cynaliadwy a’r cynnig i gymeradwyo adroddiad grant arbennig y cynllun trafnidiaeth leol i ddydd Iau, 1 Mawrth. I wneud hyn, symudaf gynnig trefniadol, yn unol â Rheol Sefydlog Rhif 6.10. Cynigiaf gynnig trefniadol hefyd i ganiatáu cynnig heddiw y cynnig heb ddyddiad trafod, a gyflwynwyd ar 22 Chwefror, i gymeradwyo Rheoliadau Taliadau Anarddwys 2001. Mae hyn yn is-ddeddfwriaeth a wnaethpwyd ar y cyd gan y Weinyddiaeth Amaethyddiaeth, Pysgodfeydd a Bwyd.

On Thursday, 1 March, I propose to move a procedural motion under Standing Order No. 6.16 to reconvene the debate on the NHS strategy adjourned from Tuesday, 13 February. The debate on the Queen’s Speech has been moved forward to Tuesday, 13 March. I remind Members that the Taoiseach, Bertie Ahern will address the Assembly on Thursday after Helen Mary Jones’s short debate on the governance of Wales.

Ar ddydd Iau, 1 Mawrth, cynigiaf symud cynnig trefniadol o dan Reol Sefydlog Rhif 6.16 i aildrefnu’r ddadl ar strategaeth yr NHS a ohiriwyd ddydd Mawrth, 13 Chwefror. Symudwyd y ddadl ar Araith y Frenhines ymlaen i ddydd Mawrth, 13 Mawrth. Atgoffaf yr Aelodau y bydd y Taoiseach, Bertie Ahern yn annerch y Cynulliad ddydd Iau ar ôl dadl fer Helen Mary Jones ar lywodraethu Cymru.

On 6 March there will be a debate on the NHS human resource strategy, a debate in accordance with Standing Order No. 29 nominated by Christine Gwyther, and a debate on the Pre-16 Education Committee report on early years provision for three-year-olds. Business on 8 March will now also include a motion to approve the junior class size special grant report and a motion to approve the NHS (General Medical Services) (Amendment) (Wales) Regulations 2001. Business on 13 March is as reported last week, but now also includes the debate on the Queen’s Speech. On Thursday, 15 March there will be motions to consider and approve subordinate legislation on education. On Tuesday, 20 March there will be a debate on the Assembly’s information and communications technology strategy, a Plaid Cymru minority party debate and a composite motion to approve two items of subordinate legislation. On Thursday, 22 March, there will be a statement on the in-year transfers between main expenditure groups, a debate on the Sure Start programme special grant report and the children and young people special grant report, a Conservative minority party debate and a composite motion to approve items of subordinate legislation. I will reschedule Janice Gregory’s short debate on crime, which was adjourned from Thursday, 15 February, at the earliest opportunity.

Ar 6 Mawrth, bydd dadl ar strategaeth adnoddau dynol yr NHS, dadl yn unol â Rheol Sefydlog Rhif 29 a enwebwyd gan Christine Gwyther, a dadl ar adroddiad y Pwyllgor Addysg Cyn-16 ar ddarpariaeth y blynyddoedd cynnar ar gyfer plant teirblwydd. Bydd busnes 8 Mawrth bellach yn cynnwys hefyd gynnig i gymeradwyo’r adroddiad grant arbennig maint dosbarthiadau iau a chynnig i gymeradwyo Rheoliadau’r Gwasanaeth Iechyd Gwladol (Gwasanaethau Meddygol Cyffredinol) (Diwygio) (Cymru) 2001. Bydd busnes 13 Mawrth fel y nodwyd yr wythnos diwethaf, ond mae bellach yn cynnwys hefyd y ddadl ar Araith y Frenhines. Ddydd Iau, 15 Mawrth, bydd cynigion i ystyried a chymeradwyo’r is-ddeddfwriaeth ar addysg. Ddydd Mawrth, 20 Mawrth, bydd dadl ar strategaeth technoleg gwybodaeth a chyfathrebu’r Cynulliad, dadl plaid leiafrifol Plaid Cymru a chynnig cyfansawdd i gymeradwyo dau ddarn o is-ddeddfwriaeth. Ddydd Iau, 22 Mawrth, bydd datganiad ar y trosglwyddiadau yn ystod y flwyddyn rhwng y prif grwpiau gwariant, dadl ar adroddiad grant arbennig rhaglen Cychwyn Cadarn ac adroddiad grant arbennig plant a phobl ifanc, dadl plaid leiafrifol y Blaid Geidwadol a chynnig cyfansawdd i gymeradwyo darnau o is-ddeddfwriaeth. Aildrefnaf ddadl fer Janice Gregory ar droseddu, a ohiriwyd ddydd Iau, 15 Chwefror, cyn gynted â phosibl.

Finally, on the advice of the Business Committee this morning, the Deputy Presiding Officer has determined, in accordance with Standing Order No. 22.5, that the following items of subordinate legislation need not be referred to a Subject Committee. First, the National Health Service (Payments by Local Authorities to Health Authorities) (Prescribed Functions) (Wales) Regulations. Secondly, the National Health Service (Penalty Charge) (Wales) Regulations 2001. Thirdly, the Beef Labelling (Enforcement) (Wales) Regulations 2001. Fourthly, the Housing (Preservation of Right to Buy) (Amendment) (Wales) Regulations 2001. Arrangements will be made to post a copy of this statement to the intranet and the internet later today.

Yn olaf, ar gyngor y Pwyllgor Busnes y bore yma, penderfynodd y Dirprwy Lywydd, yn unol â Rheol Sefydlog Rhif 22.5, nad oes angen cyfeirio’r darnau canlynol o is-ddeddfwriaeth at Bwyllgor Pwnc. Yn gyntaf, Rheoliadau’r Gwasanaeth Iechyd Gwladol (Taliadau gan Awdurdodau Lleol i Awdurdodau Iechyd) (Swyddogaethau Rhagnodedig) (Cymru). Yn ail, Rheoliadau’r Gwasanaeth Iechyd Gwladol (Tâl Cosb) (Cymru) 2001. Yn drydydd, Rheoliadau Labelu Cig Eidion (Gorfodi) (Cymru) 2001. Yn bedwerydd, Rheoliadau Tai (Cadw’r Hawl i Brynu) (Diwygio) (Cymru) 2001. Gwneir trefniadau i anfon copi o’r datganiad hwn i’r fewnrwyd a’r rhyngrwyd yn ddiweddarach heddiw.

Dafydd Elis-Thomas Y Llywydd siaradwyd yn Gymraeg t. 45

Dafydd Elis-Thomas The Presiding Officer spoken in Welsh p. 45

A oes gwrthwynebiad i’r datganiad busnes? Gwelaf nad oes. A oes unrhyw sylwadau ar y datganiad busnes? Nid oes. Symudwn ymlaen, felly.

Are there any objections to the business statement? I see that there are none. Are there any comments on the business statement? There are none. We will therefore move on.

Derbyniwyd y datganiad busnes.

Business statement adopted.

Cymeradwyo Gorchymyn Personau Digartref (Angen Blaenoriaethol) (Cymru) 2001

Approval of the Homeless Persons (Priority Need) (Wales) Order 2001

Peter Black The Deputy Minister for Local Government spoken in English p. 45

Peter Black Y Dirprwy Weinidog dros Lywodraeth Leol siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 45

I propose that

Cynigiaf fod

Peter Black The Deputy Minister for Local Government (continued) spoken in English p. 46

Peter Black Y Dirprwy Weinidog dros Lywodraeth Leol (parhad) siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 46

I also propose that

Cynigiaf hefyd fod

Peter Black The Deputy Minister for Local Government (continued) spoken in English p. 46

Peter Black Y Dirprwy Weinidog dros Lywodraeth Leol (parhad) siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 46

The National Assembly has set out its long-term vision in ‘Betterwales.com’. That vision emphasises the unique and diverse identity of Wales and seeks to create a more prosperous society, served by effective and accessible public services, where communities’ views are heard. The three major themes of sustainable development, tackling social disadvantage, and equal opportunities, support this vision and influence how policies and budgets are developed for its work. That is demonstrated by the priority given to tackling homelessness and rough sleeping. The report ‘Rough Sleeping in Wales’, published by the Assembly last year, recommended that the categories of homeless people who are regarded as being in priority need of accommodation should be widened to include people sleeping rough.

Nododd y Cynulliad Cenedlaethol ei weledigaeth tymor hir yn ‘Gwellcymru.com’. Pwysleisia’r weledigaeth honno hunaniaeth unigryw ac amrywiol Cymru a cheisia greu cymdeithas fwy ffyniannus, a wasanaethir gan wasanaethau cyhoeddus effeithiol a hygyrch, lle y clywir barn y cymunedau. Cefnoga’r tair prif thema, sef datblygu cynaliadwy, mynd i’r afael ag anfantais gymdeithasol, a chyfle cyfartal, y weledigaeth hon a dylanwadant ar sut y datblygir polisïau a chyllidebau ar gyfer ei waith. Dangosir hynny gan y flaenoriaeth a roddir i fynd i’r afael â digartrefedd a chysgu ar y stryd. Argymhellodd yr adroddiad ‘Cysgu ar y Stryd yng Nghymru’, a gyhoeddwyd gan y Cynulliad y llynedd, y dylid ehangu’r categorïau o bobl ddigartref yr ystyrir bod angen blaenoriaethol llety arnynt i gynnwys pobl sydd yn cysgu ar y stryd.

The budget to support voluntary organisations on homelessness proposals for 2000-01 has been increased by over 75 per cent, from £1.05 million to £1.85 million, and a one-off allocation of £3.6 million has also been made available for local authorities to develop better strategic approaches to homelessness. In addition, further increases have been agreed for next year’s budget.

Cynyddwyd y gyllideb i gefnogi sefydliadau gwirfoddol ar gynigion digartrefedd ar gyfer 2000-01 fwy na 75 y cant, o £1.05 miliwn i £1.85 miliwn, a neilltuwyd dyraniad unigol o £3.6 miliwn ar gyfer awdurdodau lleol er mwyn iddynt ddatblygu ymagweddau strategol gwell tuag at ddigartrefedd. Yn ogystal, cytunwyd ar godiadau pellach ar gyfer cyllideb y flwyddyn nesaf.

The Housing Act 1996 defines homelessness and imposes duties on local housing authorities in relation to those who are homeless. A local authority’s main duty on homelessness is to secure accommodation, for those who are eligible, where applicants have a priority need for it by reason of their circumstances, and have not become homeless as a result of their own conduct.

Diffinia Deddf Tai 1996 ddigartrefedd a rhydd ddyletswyddau ar awdurdodau tai lleol mewn perthynas â phersonau digartref. Prif ddyletswydd awdurdod lleol ar ddigartrefedd yw sicrhau llety, ar gyfer y rheini sydd yn gymwys, lle bo angen blaenoriaethol ar yr ymgeiswyr oherwydd eu hamgylchiadau, a lle na ddaethant yn ddigartref o ganlyniad i’w hymddygiad eu hunain.

The Act requires local housing authorities to provide accommodation for those who are homeless, eligible for assistance, and in priority need. Currently, there are four categories of persons who have priority need. These are a pregnant woman or a person with whom she resides or might reasonably expect to reside; a person with whom dependant children reside or might reasonably be expected to reside; a person who is vulnerable as a result of old age, mental illness, handicap, physical disability or other special reason, or with whom such a person resides or might reasonably be expected to reside; and a person who is homeless or threatened with homelessness as a result of an emergency such as flood, fire or other disaster.

Mae’r Ddeddf yn ei gwneud yn ofynnol i awdurdodau tai lleol ddarparu llety ar gyfer personau digartref, sydd yn gymwys i gael cymorth, ac sydd ag angen blaenoriaethol. Ar hyn o bryd, mae pedwar categori o bobl sydd ag angen blaenoriaethol, sef menyw feichiog neu berson y mae’n byw gydag ef neu y gellid disgwyl yn rhesymol iddi fyw gydag ef; person y mae plant dibynnol yn byw gydag ef neu y gellid disgwyl yn rhesymol iddynt fyw gydag ef; person diamddiffyn oherwydd henaint, salwch y meddwl, anallu, anabledd corfforol neu reswm arbennig arall, neu rywun y mae person o’r fath yn byw gydag ef neu y gellid disgwyl yn rhesymol iddo fyw gydag ef; a pherson sydd yn ddigartref o ganlyniad i argyfwng megis llifogydd, tân neu drychineb arall.

The National Assembly has the power to add to those categories by Order, and on 20 June 2000 resolved to instruct the Assembly Secretary for Local Government and Housing to bring forward a draft Order to extend the categories of homeless people who are regarded as being in priority need of accommodation. The Order before us today encapsulates that instruction. It specifies five additional categories of people who should be deemed to be in priority need. These are: a care leaver or person at particular risk of sexual or financial exploitation, who is 18 years or over but under the age of 21; a 16 or 17-year-old; a person fleeing domestic violence or threatened domestic violence; a person homeless after leaving the armed forces; and a former prisoner who, after being released from custody, has no accommodation to which to return. These additional categories are recognised as including some of those most at risk from homelessness. Research has shown that the causes of sleeping rough are well-known and include leaving prison, mental illness, being in care, discharge from the armed forces and so on. We hope that these categories will incorporate the large number of people who are currently sleeping rough and provide a common duty for local authorities across Wales to treat these people’s needs as a when they come into contact with them.

Mae pŵer gan y Cynulliad Cenedlaethol i ychwanegu at y categorïau hynny drwy Orchymyn, ac ar 20 Mehefin 2000 penderfynodd gyfarwyddo Ysgrifennydd Llywodraeth Leol a Thai’r Cynulliad i gyflwyno Gorchymyn drafft i ehangu’r categorïau o bobl ddigartref yr ystyrir eu bod ag angen blaenoriaethol am lety. Mae’r Gorchymyn ger ein bron heddiw yn crynhoi’r cyfarwyddyd hwnnw. Noda pum categori ychwanegol o bobl y dylid ystyried fel pobl ag angen blaenoriaethol sef: rhywun sydd wedi gadael gofal neu rywun yn agored iawn i gael eu camddefnyddio’n rhywiol neu’n ariannol, sydd yn 18 mlwydd oed neu drosodd ond sydd o dan 21 oed; person 16 neu 17 mlwydd oed; rhywun sydd yn dianc rhag trais yn y cartref neu’r bygythiad o drais yn y cartref; person sydd yn ddigartref ar ôl gadael y lluoedd arfog; a chyn-garcharor nad oes llety ganddo y gall ddychwelyd iddo, ar ôl cael ei ryddhau o’r carchar. Cydnabyddir bod y categorïau ychwanegol hyn yn cynnwys rhai o’r bobl hynny sydd fwyaf agored i fod yn ddigartref. Dangosodd ymchwil fod achosion cysgu ar y stryd yn hysbys iawn a’u bod yn cynnwys gadael carchar, salwch meddwl, bod mewn gofal, cael eich rhyddhau o’r lluoedd arfog ac ati. Gobeithiwn y bydd y categorïau hyn yn ymgorffori’r nifer fawr o bobl sydd yn cysgu ar y stryd ar hyn o bryd ac yn darparu dyletswydd gyffredin ar awdurdodau lleol ledled Cymru i drin anghenion y bobl hyn pan ddônt mewn cysylltiad â hwy.

The report on rough sleeping by the social exclusion unit, published in 1998, concluded that around half of the homeless people on the streets have been in prison or on remand for some time for a wide range of reasons and circumstances. The extension of priority need to ex-offenders links with the National Assembly’s policies to reduce social exclusion and the risk of re-offending. Following the proposals to extend the priority need categories, a consultation paper was circulated in August 2000 and 33 responses were received. These responses welcomed the decision to press ahead with the extension of categories of priority need in Wales in advance of any action being taken in England.

Daeth yr adroddiad ar gysgu ar y stryd gan yr uned allgáu cymdeithasol, a gyhoeddwyd yn 1998, i’r casgliad bod tua hanner y bobl ddigartref ar y strydoedd wedi bod yn y carchar neu yn y ddalfa am beth amser oherwydd amrywiaeth eang o resymau ac amgylchiadau. Mae ehangu’r angen blaenoriaethol i gyn-droseddwyr yn cysylltu â pholisïau’r Cynulliad Cenedlaethol i leihau allgáu cymdeithasol a’r perygl o aildroseddu. Yn sgîl y cynigion i ehangu’r categorïau o angen blaenoriaethol, dosbarthwyd papur ymgynghorol yn Awst 2000 a derbyniwyd 33 o ymatebion. Croesawodd yr ymatebion hyn y penderfyniad i barhau â’r gwaith o ehangu’r categorïau o angen blaenoriaethol yng Nghymru cyn i unrhyw gamau gael eu cymryd yn Lloegr.

The motion before us today builds upon the National Assembly’s commitment to extending protection to 16 and 17-year-olds by strengthening the recognition that many such people are vulnerable, and by taking action to address the situation through legislation. The motion takes forward one target in the partnership agreement and the instruction has been matched with an increase in funding for the supported housing revenue grant programme to ensure that the necessary support is in place. It is difficult to establish the number of people in Wales who may benefit from the extension of priority need groups. Evidence has shown that the groups we are discussing today are disproportionately represented among people sleeping rough. That is why the UK Government has acknowledged the need to increase protection in its recent Green Paper on housing.

Datblyga’r cynnig sydd ger ein bron heddiw ymrwymiad y Cynulliad Cenedlaethol i ddiogelu pobl ifanc 16 a 17 mlwydd oed drwy gydnabod yn gynyddol y ffaith bod llawer o bobl o’r fath yn ddiamddiffyn, a thrwy gymryd camau i ymdrin â’r sefyllfa drwy gyflwyno deddfwriaeth. Datblyga’r cynnig un targed yn y cytundeb partneriaeth ac ategwyd y cyfarwyddyd gyda chynnydd yn yr arian i’r rhaglen grant refeniw tai â chymorth i sicrhau y rhoddir y cymorth angenrheidiol. Mae’n anodd darganfod nifer y bobl yng Nghymru a all gael budd oherwydd ehangu’r grwpiau o angen blaenoriaethol. Dangosodd tystiolaeth fod y grwpiau a drafodwn heddiw yn ganran anghymesur o’r bobl sydd yn cysgu ar y stryd. Dyna pam mae Llywodraeth y DU wedi cydnabod yr angen i’w diogelu’n fwy yn ei Phapur Gwyn diweddar ar dai.

While proposing reforms to the homelessness and allocations legislation, the Homes Bill that was introduced in the House of Commons in December 2000 did not transfer this commitment into legislation. The Assembly therefore has the opportunity to lead the way today by supporting this motion and putting this legislation in place ahead of England and the UK Government. By approving this motion, the National Assembly will send a clear message to the wider world, and will be seen to take the lead in providing the most vulnerable people in society with the deserved opportunity to receive the assistance that they should expect in Wales today. This is a key part of our social justice agenda and I am proud that the Liberal Democrats first raised it in the Assembly in a Plenary motion in June 2000.

Er y cynigiodd ddiwygiadau i’r ddeddfwriaeth digartrefedd a dyrannu, ni throsglwyddodd y Mesur Cartrefi a gyflwynwyd yn Nhŷ’r Cyffredin yn Rhagfyr 2000 yr ymrwymiad hwn i ddeddfwriaeth. Felly, mae’r cyfle gan y Cynulliad i achub y blaen heddiw drwy gefnogi’r cynnig hwn a thrwy sefydlu’r ddeddfwriaeth hon cyn Lloegr a Llywodraeth y DU. Drwy gymeradwyo’r cynnig hwn, anfona’r Cynulliad Cenedlaethol neges glir i’r byd ehangach, a gwelir ei fod yn achub y blaen drwy roi i’r bobl fwyaf diamddiffyn mewn cymdeithas y cyfle a haeddant i gael y cymorth y dylent ei ddisgwyl yng Nghymru heddiw. Dyma ran allweddol o’n hagenda cyfiawnder cymdeithasol ac yr wyf yn falch iddo gael ei godi yn gyntaf gan y Democratiaid Rhyddfrydol yn y Cynulliad mewn cynnig Cyfarfod Llawn ym Mehefin 2000.

The extension of the priority need groups is not the end of this. It is the first step in an ongoing task to encourage the development of corporate and multi-agency homelessness strategies. To that end, the recently established Homelessness Commission will play a major role. It will map current information on homelessness and sleeping rough in Wales and on existing and planned provisions and identify gaps and overlaps. The Commission will consider targets and outcomes for tackling homelessness and sleeping rough in Wales, as well as develop a model local authority homelessness strategy. It will report to the Local Government and Housing Committee in the autumn. This motion is a true example of legislation that is made in Wales and I commend it to you.

Nid yw ehangu’r grwpiau o angen blaenoriaethol yn ddiwedd hyn. Y cam cyntaf ydyw mewn tasg barhaus i annog y gwaith o ddatblygu strategaethau digartrefedd corfforaethol ac amlasiantaeth. I’r perwyl hwnnw, bydd y Comisiwn Digartrefedd a sefydlwyd yn ddiweddar yn chwarae rôl bwysig. Amlinella wybodaeth bresennol am ddigartrefedd a chysgu ar y stryd yng Nghymru ac am ddarpariaethau presennol ac arfaethedig a noda fylchau a gorgyffyrddiadau. Ystyria’r Comisiwn dargedau a chanlyniadau i fynd i’r afael â digartrefedd a chysgu ar y stryd yng Nghymru, a datblyga strategaeth digartrefedd awdurdod lleol fodel. Cyflwyna adroddiad i’r Pwyllgor Llywodraeth Leol a Thai yn yr hydref. Mae’r cynnig hwn yn enghraifft berffaith o ddeddfwriaeth a wneir yng Nghymru ac fe’i cymeradwyaf i chi.

Janet Davies spoken in English p. 49

Janet Davies siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 49

I welcome this legislation and commit Plaid Cymru’s support to it. Extending the categories of homelessness to include younger people, 16 to 18-year-olds, and, in particular, those leaving care, is important. Ever since I can remember, I have been concerned about people leaving care and seeming to be cast adrift in the world. I am pleased to see that this legislation deals with prisoners released from custody with no other accommodation and people fleeing from violence and harassment. As Peter said, this commitment was passed in Plenary on 20 June 2000. At that time, there was a commitment to introduce the legislation within four months. It has been eight months and it is regrettable that homeless people have had to put up with an extra four months of harsh winter weather.

Croesawaf y ddeddfwriaeth hon ac addawaf gefnogaeth Plaid Cymru iddi. Mae’n bwysig ehangu’r categorïau o ddigartrefedd i gynnwys pobl iau, pobl ifanc 16 i 18 mlwydd oed, ac, yn benodol, y rheini sydd yn gadael gofal. Ers y gallaf gofio, pryderais am bobl sydd yn gadael gofal sydd fel petaent ar goll ar eu pennau eu hunain yn ôl pob golwg yn y byd. Yr wyf yn falch o weld bod y ddeddfwriaeth hon yn delio â charcharorion y’u rhyddheir o’r carchar heb unrhyw lety arall ac â phobl sydd yn dianc rhag trais ac aflonyddwch. Fel y dywedodd Peter, pasiwyd yr ymrwymiad hwn mewn Cyfarfod Llawn ar 20 Mehefin 2000. Bryd hynny, cafwyd ymrwymiad i gyflwyno’r ddeddfwriaeth o fewn pedwar mis. Mae wyth mis wedi mynd heibio ac mae’n resynus y bu’n rhaid i bobl ddigartref ddioddef pedwar mis arall o dywydd garw’r gaeaf.

However, I welcome the Order on behalf of the Party of Wales. We also need a strategy to prevent homelessness occurring in the first place. We must support people leaving care, and we must improve conditions in the private rented sector, which can sometimes be satisfactory, but sometimes poor. We must provide access to quality advice services. If people receive help in deciding about housing, it can often assist in avoiding a situation where people are sleeping on the streets or in poor quality housing. Any expenditure on this will be worthwhile and economically effective. It will save on expenditure on health and education. However, we need to monitor its effects and the consequent extra demand on housing services. In particular, the local authorities must consider what extra resources they are likely to need. I would like to know whether there is a commitment to providing extra resources for this purpose.

Fodd bynnag, croesawaf y Gorchymyn ar ran Plaid Cymru. Mae angen strategaeth arnom hefyd i atal digartrefedd rhag digwydd yn y lle cyntaf. Rhaid inni roi cymorth i’r bobl sydd yn gadael gofal, a rhaid inni wella’r amodau yn y sector rhentu preifat, a all fod yn foddhaol weithiau, ond a all fod yn wael weithiau. Rhaid inni wella’r mynediad i wasanaethau cyngor o safon. Os caiff pobl gymorth wrth benderfynu ar dai, gall gynorthwyo yn aml i osgoi’r sefyllfa lle mae pobl yn cysgu ar y stryd neu mewn tai o ansawdd gwael. Bydd unrhyw wariant ar hyn yn werthfawr ac yn economaidd effeithiol. Bydd yn arbed gwariant ar iechyd ac addysg. Fodd bynnag, mae angen inni fonitro ei effeithiau a’r galw ychwanegol o ganlyniad ar wasanaethau tai. Yn benodol, rhaid i’r awdurdodau lleol ystyried pa adnoddau ychwanegol y mae’n debyg y bydd eu hangen arnynt. Hoffwn wybod a oes ymrwymiad i ddarparu adnoddau ychwanegol at y diben hwn.

As you know, the Assembly has set up a Homelessness Commission. It is regrettable that the commission is rather exclusive in its membership and does not include any Member of an opposition party. That is not the best way forward. Having said that, the commission exists and is beginning to tackle the difficulties that affect so many people. There is a spectrum of homelessness, from rough sleepers and hostel tenants to people in bed and breakfast establishments and people staying with relatives in overcrowded accommodation. The first step is being taken. I expect to see far more taken in future.

Fel y gwyddoch, sefydlodd y Cynulliad Gomisiwn Digartrefedd. Mae’n resynus bod aelodaeth y Comisiwn braidd yn ddethol ac nad yw’n cynnwys unrhyw Aelod o wrthblaid. Nid y ffordd orau ymlaen yw hynny. Ar ôl dweud hynny, mae’r comisiwn yn bodoli ac yn dechrau mynd i’r afael â’r anawsterau sydd yn effeithio ar gymaint o bobl. Mae amrediad eang o fathau o ddigartrefedd, o bobl sydd yn cysgu ar y stryd a thenantiaid hosteli i bobl mewn sefydliadau gwely a brecwast a phobl sydd yn aros gyda pherthnasau mewn llety gorlawn. Cymerir y cam cyntaf. Disgwyliaf weld llawer mwy o gamau yn y dyfodol.

Val Feld spoken in English p. 50

Val Feld siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 50

I am pleased to welcome this new duty on local authorities. It is an important step forward and homelessness campaigners have argued for it for many years. I am pleased that the first piece of ‘made in Wales’ legislation is on homelessness. I credit Peter Black for finding an opportunity to commit the Assembly to this through a Liberal Democrat debate. However, it is important to acknowledge that it was a Labour Party policy for many years and that it is also coming through in England. My colleague, Peter Law, consulted on introducing this and other measures on homelessness when he was Secretary for Local Government and Housing. I hope that Peter Black, in his response, will address the question of what happens now. Peter Black now chairs the Homelessness Commission. It is important that this is the beginning of a process that takes a radical look at our powers under the homelessness legislation. That legislation has existed since 1977. The years of Conservative Government led to retrenchment. It is now time to consider how we can use that legislation creatively in Wales. I hope that Peter Black, in his response, will address the issue of what guidance the Minister is proposing for local authorities on how to interpret these new duties. Under the old homelessness legislation we had a code of practice which was admissible in court, and which gave further substance to how the legal requirements would be interpreted.

Mae’n dda gennyf groesawu’r ddyletswydd newydd hon ar awdurdodau lleol. Mae’n gam pwysig ymlaen a dadleuodd ymgyrchwyr digartrefedd drosto ers blynyddoedd lawer. Yr wyf yn falch bod y darn cyntaf o ddeddfwriaeth ‘a wnaethpwyd yng Nghymru’ yn ymwneud â digartrefedd. Canmolaf Peter am ddod o hyd i gyfle i ymrwymo’r Cynulliad i hyn drwy ddadl y Democratiaid Rhyddfrydol. Fodd bynnag, mae’n bwysig cydnabod mai polisi’r Blaid Lafur ydoedd am flynyddoedd lawer ac fe’i cyflwynir yn Lloegr hefyd. Ymgynghorodd fy nghyd-Aelod, Peter Law, ynglŷn â chyflwyno’r mesur hwn a mesurau eraill ar ddigartrefedd pan oedd yn Ysgrifennydd Llywodraeth Leol a Thai. Gobeithiaf y bydd Peter Black, yn ei ateb, yn ymdrin â’r mater o’r hyn sydd yn digwydd yn awr. Peter Black yw cadeirydd y Comisiwn Digartrefedd bellach. Mae’n bwysig mai dechrau proses yw hyn sydd yn edrych yn radicalaidd ar ein pwerau o dan y ddeddfwriaeth digartrefedd. Bodolodd y ddeddfwriaeth honno ers 1977. Arweiniodd y blynyddoedd o Lywodraeth y Blaid Geidwadol at gwtogiadau. Mae’n bryd bellach i ystyried sut y gallwn ddefnyddio’r ddeddfwriaeth honno mewn ffordd greadigol yng Nghymru. Gobeithiaf y bydd Peter Black, yn ei ateb, yn ymdrin â’r mater o ba arweiniad y cynigia’r Gweinidog ar gyfer awdurdodau lleol ynglŷn â sut i ddehongli’r dyletswyddau newydd hyn. O dan yr hen ddeddfwriaeth digartrefedd, yr oedd cod ymarfer gennym a oedd yn dderbyniol yn y llys, ac a roddodd sylwedd pellach ar sut y câi’r gofynion cyfreithiol eu dehongli.

I welcome two of the duties, but the categories leave a great deal to be considered in terms of how they will be judged. One is the requirement to house people who are at risk of sexual or financial exploitation. That was one of the possible categories for housing under the old legislation and it leads to a great deal of difficulty in terms of what kind of evidence people must produce to a local authority to demonstrate that they are at risk. The second is people coming out of prison. You are correct in saying that the majority of people who are homeless on the streets are ex-prisoners. However, many of them go in and out of prison. There are questions for local authorities on how they will interpret that requirement. I would also like to know what will be suggested as appropriate accommodation. Sixteen and 17 year-olds are not well accommodated in bed and breakfast hotels. Peter Black knows that we have a major problem in Swansea, where young single homeless people are housed in bed and breakfast hotels and are at risk of exploitation. What measures are being put in place to provide suitable accommodation that will help people to get back on their feet?

Croesawaf ddwy o’r dyletswyddau, ond mae llawer i’w ystyried o hyd o ran sut y bernir y categorïau. Un mater yw’r gofyniad i roi llety i bobl sydd mewn perygl o gael eu camddefnyddio’n rhywiol neu’n ariannol. Un o’r categorïau posibl i gael llety oedd hynny o dan yr hen ddeddfwriaeth ac mae’n achosi llawer o anawsterau o ran pa fath o dystiolaeth y mae’n rhaid i bobl ei chyflwyno i awdurdod lleol i ddangos eu bod mewn perygl. Yr ail fater yw pobl sydd yn gadael y carchar. Yr ydych yn gywir pan ddywedwch mai cyn-garcharorion yw mwyafrif y bobl sydd yn ddigartref ar y strydoedd. Fodd bynnag, â llawer ohonynt i’r carchar sawl tro. Mae cwestiynau ar gyfer awdurdodau lleol o ran sut y dehonglant y gofyniad hwnnw. Hoffwn wybod hefyd am yr hyn a gaiff ei awgrymu fel llety priodol. Nid yw hosteli gwely a brecwast yn llety da i bobl ifanc 16 a 17 mlwydd oed. Gŵyr Peter Black fod problem fawr gennym yn Abertawe, lle y rhoddir llety i bobl ddigartref sengl ifanc mewn hosteli gwely a brecwast a lle y maent mewn perygl o gael eu camddefnyddio. Pa fesurau a sefydlir i ddarparu llety addas a fydd yn helpu pobl i adsefydlu?

In the Homelessness Commission that he chairs, I hope that Peter will consider the thorny question of intentionality—the get-out clause whereby local authorities can say that people have made themselves homeless by their own actions and are therefore not entitled to housing. That has been used in different ways over many years, often when housing is in short supply, to restrict the numbers of people who are housed because they are homeless. People deliberately making themselves homeless and putting themselves on the street is hard to imagine. However, this has become caught up with a great deal of case law. It is within our powers to tackle this. I hope that we will look at this radically as we start down this road, and use our powers under this legislation to provide protection for people who are homeless or at risk of homelessness in Wales.

Yn y Comisiwn Digartrefedd y mae’n ei gadeirio, gobeithiaf yr ystyria Peter y cwestiwn anodd o fwriadoldeb—yr esgus sydd gan awdurdodau lleol lle y gallant ddweud bod pobl yn ddigartref oherwydd eu gweithredoedd eu hunain ac felly nad ydynt yn gymwys i gael llety. Defnyddiwyd yr esgus hwnnw mewn ffyrdd gwahanol dros flynyddoedd lawer, yn aml pan fo tai yn brin, i gyfyngu ar nifer y bobl y rhoddir llety iddynt gan eu bod yn ddigartref. Mae’n anodd dychmygu pobl yn gwneud eu hunain yn ddigartref ac yn rhoi eu hunain ar y stryd yn bwrpasol. Fodd bynnag, bu hyn ynghlwm wrth gyfraith achos. Mae o fewn ein pwerau i fynd i’r afael â hyn. Gobeithiaf yr edrychwn ar hyn mewn ffordd radicalaidd wrth inni dechrau ar y trywydd hwn, ac y defnyddiwn ein pwerau o fewn y ddeddfwriaeth hon i ddiogelu pobl sydd yn ddigartref neu sydd mewn perygl o fod yn ddigartref yng Nghymru.

William Graham spoken in English p. 52

William Graham siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 52

As we did in Plenary on 20 June 2000, the Welsh Conservatives will support the motion to extend the categories of homeless people who have priority housing need. We recognise the change of heart shown by this administration in proposing today’s motion. Last June, it sought to amend an almost identically worded motion to merely acknowledge that these people were not often given the appropriate priority—

Fel y gwnaethom yn y Cyfarfod Llawn ar 20 Mehefin 2000, cefnoga Ceidwadwyr Cymru’r cynnig i ehangu’r categorïau o bobl ddigartref sydd ag angen blaenoriaethol am lety. Cydnabyddwn y ffaith bod y weinyddiaeth hon wedi newid ei meddwl wrth gynnig y cynnig heddiw. Fis Mehefin diwethaf, ceisiodd wella cynnig, â’r union eiriau bron, dim ond i gydnabod na roddir y flaenoriaeth briodol yn aml i’r bobl hyn—

Peter Black spoken in English p. 52

Peter Black siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 52

Do you accept that that was a different administration?

A dderbyniwch mai gweinyddiaeth wahanol oedd honno?

William Graham spoken in English p. 52

William Graham siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 52

Having failed to secure the Assembly’s agreement for such an amendment, it abstained on the vote.

Ar ôl methu â sicrhau cytundeb y Cynulliad ar gyfer gwelliant o’r fath, ymataliodd yn ystod y bleidlais.

The Welsh Conservatives have two observations that we ask Members to keep in mind. First, the more criteria that you designate as constituting a priority, the greater the number of people you are required to accommodate and the greater the demand placed on the limited resources available to meet priority need. In effect, this action may reduce the significance of being recognised as having a priority housing need. Secondly, we recognise that former prisoners who are homeless after being released from custody may require priority housing, especially if it allows them to secure employment or a stable lifestyle that reduces the possibility of re-offending. However, we must seek to ensure that, no matter how many categories of priority housing we define, we never convey the impression that crime pays.

Mae dau sylw gan Geidwadwyr Cymru y gofynnwn i’r Aelodau eu cadw mewn cof. Yn gyntaf, po fwyaf o feini prawf a bennwch fel blaenoriaeth, y mwyaf o bobl y mae’n ofynnol rhoi llety iddynt a’r galw mwyaf a roddir ar yr adnoddau cyfyngedig sydd ar gael i fodloni’r angen blaenoriaethol. Mewn gwirionedd, gall y weithred hon leihau arwyddocâd cael eich cydnabod fel rhywun ag angen blaenoriaethol am lety. Yn ail, cydnabyddwn y gall fod angen llety blaenoriaethol ar gyn-garcharorion sydd yn ddigartref ar ôl cael eu rhyddhau, yn enwedig os caniatâ iddynt ddiogelu cyflogaeth neu ffordd sefydlog o fyw sydd yn lleihau’r posibilrwydd o aildroseddu. Fodd bynnag, rhaid inni geisio sicrhau na roddwn byth yr argraff ei bod yn werth troseddu, waeth beth fo’r nifer o gategorïau o lety blaenoriaethol a ddiffiniwn.

The Welsh Conservatives will support this Order, which is an extension of the Housing Act 1996.

Cefnoga Ceidwadwyr Cymru’r Gorchymyn hwn, sef estyniad o Ddeddf Tai 1996.

Peter Law spoken in English p. 53

Peter Law siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 53

I welcome this important piece of legislation for Wales. All Members should support it. However, it would have come through the statute book after we had consulted on the housing strategy. That was the intention of the Labour Government at the time, when I was the Secretary for Local Government and Housing. It was overtaken by a vote in Plenary. There is no argument about the fact that this legislation is necessary.

Croesawaf y darn pwysig hwn o ddeddfwriaeth i Gymru. Dylai pob Aelod ei chefnogi. Fodd bynnag, byddai wedi dod drwy’r llyfr statud ar ôl inni ymgynghori ar y strategaeth tai. Dyna oedd bwriad y Llywodraeth Lafur ar y pryd, pan oeddwn yn Ysgrifennydd Llywodraeth Leol a Thai. Achubwyd y blaen arni gan bleidlais yn y Cyfarfod Llawn. Ni ellir dadlau dros y ffaith bod angen y ddeddfwriaeth hon.

I highlight the proud record of the previous Labour administration in Wales since the inception of the Assembly in tackling homelessness in Wales, which the Conservatives previously ignored by denying there was a problem. The administration has provided increasing resources to ensure that these people have an opportunity that they have never had before and which others take for granted. Homeless people need safety and comfort. This Order ensures that that is available and I welcome it.

Nodaf hanes clodwiw’r weinyddiaeth Lafur flaenorol yng Nghymru ers sefydliad y Cynulliad wrth fynd i’r afael â digartrefedd yng Nghymru, a anwybyddwyd yn flaenorol gan y Ceidwadwyr drwy wadu’r broblem. Darparodd y weinyddiaeth adnoddau cynyddol i sicrhau y caiff y bobl hyn gyfle na chawsant erioed o’r blaen ac y mae eraill yn ei gymryd yn ganiataol. Mae angen diogelwch a chysur ar bobl ddigartref. Sicrha’r Gorchymyn hwn bod hynny ar gael ac fe’i croesawaf.

I welcome the work of the Homelessness Commission, which Peter Black chairs. If it is any consolation to Janet, the Labour Party does not have a representative on the commission either. However, what is being done is important—

Croesawaf waith y Comisiwn Digartrefedd, a gadeirir gan Peter Black. Os bydd o unrhyw gysur i Janet, nid oes cynrychiolydd o’r Blaid Lafur ar y comisiwn ychwaith. Fodd bynnag, mae’r hyn a wneir yn bwysig—

Janet Davies spoken in English p. 53

Janet Davies siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 53

As Chair of the Local Government and Housing Committee, Gwenda Thomas is a member of the commission.

Fel Cadeirydd y Pwyllgor Llywodraeth Leol a Thai, mae Gwenda Thomas yn aelod o’r comisiwn.

Peter Law spoken in English p. 53

Peter Law siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 53

I withdraw my comment. I did not know that Gwenda was a member of the commission. That is an excellent move forward. I apologise to Gwenda.

Tynnaf fy sylw’n ôl. Ni wyddwn fod Gwenda yn aelod o’r comisiwn. Mae hynny’n gam ardderchog ymlaen. Ymddiheuraf i Gwenda.

However, it is important that we look at the big picture. In extending the categories for priority need, we are dealing with the people who need help within those categories. The people who work with the homeless, such as Cymdeithas Caer Las, the Salvation Army, the Huggard Centre, Cardiff Action for the Single Homeless and Shelter Cymru, receive, through this legislation, the support that we now give to local authorities to assist them in giving those people an opportunity to enjoy the safety and comfort that they deserve. It is an ongoing issue. As Val Feld says, it does not end here. She is right to counsel that. The situation needs to go forward. It needs to be monitored and further developed. However, it is appropriate that, with our support today, this will come into being on 1 March. It is a major step forward in tackling homelessness and we are ahead of England. I welcome that.

Fodd bynnag, mae’n bwysig edrych ar y darlun ehangach. Wrth ehangu’r categorïau angen blaenoriaethol, deliwn â’r bobl y mae angen help arnynt o fewn y categorïau hynny. Drwy’r ddeddfwriaeth hon, caiff y bobl sydd yn gweithio gyda phobl ddigartref, megis Cymdeithas Caer Las, Byddin yr Iachawdwriaeth, Canolfan Huggard, Gweithredu Caerdydd ar gyfer Pobl Ddigartref Sengl a Shelter Cymru, y cymorth a roddwn yn awr i awdurdodau lleol i’w cynorthwyo i roi cyfle i’r bobl hynny fwynhau’r diogelwch a’r cysur a haeddant. Fel y dywed Val Feld, nid y diwedd yw hwn. Mae hi’n gywir i ddweud hynny. Rhaid i’r sefyllfa fynd rhagddi. Mae angen ei monitro a’i datblygu ymhellach. Fodd bynnag, mae’n briodol y daw hyn i rym, gyda’n cefnogaeth heddiw, ar 1 Mawrth. Cam mawr ymlaen ydyw wrth inni fynd i’r afael â digartrefedd ac yr ydym o flaen Lloegr. Croesawaf hynny.

Peter Black The Deputy Minister for Local Government spoken in English p. 54

Peter Black Y Dirprwy Gweinidog dros Lywodraeth Leol siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 54

I thank everyone who has contributed to this debate. I begin with Peter Law, because I omitted to thank him in my opening speech for his work on homelessness. He referred to the Huggard Centre and I welcome people from that centre, who are in the public gallery today. It is important to note that.

Diolchaf i bawb a gyfrannodd at y ddadl hon. Dechreuaf gyda Peter Law, oherwydd imi beidio â diolch iddo yn fy araith agoriadol am ei waith ar ddigartrefedd. Cyfeiriodd at Ganolfan Huggard a chroesawaf y bobl o’r ganolfan honno sydd yn yr oriel gyhoeddus heddiw. Mae’n bwysig nodi hynny.

I will address some of the issues raised. Janet Davies asked why it has taken us so long to bring this issue back before the Assembly. She also asked many other questions. I must say that although Janet thanked and congratulated us on tabling this motion, it was a far from gracious congratulation. We need to welcome good news, instead of whining and finding excuses not to welcome it. When the motion was adopted on 20 June, there was a consultation period of eight weeks, which, with the summer recess, took us up to October 2000. That consultation had to be evaluated. It had to go to the Office of the Counsel General and through the usual legislative process. That is why it has taken us until now to bring this motion before the Assembly for debate. However, I must say that Janet’s assertion that because of the delay people have had to wait up to four months, during harsh winter weather, is bogus. That is not the case at all. Local councils have always had the discretion to rehouse vulnerable people. Local councils also have the power and ability to provide the necessary accommodation and support for people sleeping rough. Therefore, any suggestion that the delay has affected homeless people or people sleeping rough is false and I hope that we can reject that.

Ymdriniaf â rhai o’r materion a godwyd. Gofynnodd Janet Davies pam y cymerasom gymaint o amser cyn ailgyflwyno’r mater hwn gerbron y Cynulliad. Gofynnodd lawer o gwestiynau eraill hefyd. Er i Janet ddiolch inni a’n llongyfarch am gyflwyno’r cynnig hwn, rhaid imi ddweud nad oedd ei llongyfarchiadau yn raslon o bell ffordd. Mae angen inni groesawu newyddion da, yn lle cwyno a dod o hyd i esgusodion i beidio â’u croesawu. Pan fabwysiadwyd y cynnig ar 20 Mehefin, bu cyfnod ymgynghorol o wyth wythnos, a orffennodd yn Hydref 2000, gan gynnwys toriad yr haf. Yr oedd yn rhaid gwerthuso’r ymgynghoriad hwnnw. Yr oedd yn rhaid iddo fynd drwy Swyddfa’r Cwnsler Cyffredinol a’r broses ddeddfwriaethol arferol. Dyna pam y cymerodd hyd yma inni gyflwyno’r cynnig hwn gerbron y Cynulliad mewn dadl. Fodd bynnag, rhaid imi ddweud bod honiad Janet bod pobl wedi gorfod aros hyd at bedwar mis, yn ystod tywydd garw’r gaeaf, oherwydd yr oedi, yn anghywir. Nid yw hynny’n wir o gwbl. Bu disgresiwn bob amser gan gynghorau lleol i ailgartrefi pobl ddiamddiffyn. Mae’r pŵer a’r gallu gan gynghorau lleol i ddarparu’r llety a’r cymorth angenrheidiol ar gyfer pobl sydd yn cysgu ar y stryd. Felly, mae unrhyw awgrym yr effeithiodd yr oedi ar bobl ddigartref neu ar bobl sydd yn cysgu ar y stryd yn anghywir a gobeithiaf y gallwn wrthod hynny.

Janet also asked about the commitment for extra resources—

Gofynnodd Janet am yr ymrwymiad i roi adnoddau ychwanegol—

Janet Ryder spoken in English p. 55

Janet Ryder siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 55

You talked about councils’ responsibility for rehousing people. Councils also have a responsibility to offer advice and support to people who are homeless. I am sure that you would agree that that advice and support is desperately needed. I know that an audit of the kind of advice and support services offered throughout Wales is being conducted. That varies greatly throughout Wales. ‘Better Homes for People in Wales’ states that we will use that audit to help disseminate best practice. Do you agree that we need to go further than that? We need to actively help to develop those services, which can prevent people from becoming homeless in the first place. Once homeless people are rehoused, that new situation can be prevented from breaking down by giving them the support that they desperately need.

Soniasoch am gyfrifoldeb cynghorau dros ailgartrefi pobl. Mae cyfrifoldeb ar gynghorau hefyd i gynnig cyngor a chymorth i bobl ddigartref. Yr wyf yn siŵr y cytunech fod angen y cynghori a’r cymorth hwnnw yn ddybryd. Gwn y cynhelir archwiliad o’r math o wasanaethau cyngor a chymorth a gynigir ledled Cymru. Amrywia hynny’n fawr ledled Cymru. Noda ‘Cartrefi Gwell i Bobl Cymru’ y defnyddiwn yr archwiliad hwnnw i helpu i ledaenu’r arferion gorau. A gytunwch fod angen inni fynd ymhellach na hynny? Mae angen inni gymryd rhan frwd i helpu i ddatblygu’r gwasanaethau hynny, a all atal pobl rhag mynd yn ddigartref yn y lle cyntaf. Ar ôl ailgartrefi pobl ddigartref, gellir atal dirwyiad y sefyllfa newydd honno drwy roi iddynt y cymorth y mae ei angen dybryd arnynt.

Peter Black spoken in English p. 55

Peter Black siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 55

The audit report is due soon. A consistent approach across Wales to housing advice, support and rehousing people is essential. That is one reason why this legislation is before us today. I am reluctant to be prescriptive about how local councils carry out their work. We need to offer advice and guidance and allow local councils to find their own way within it. However, consistency is important.

Cyhoeddir adroddiad yr archwiliad cyn bo hir. Mae’n hanfodol bod ymagwedd gyson ledled Cymru tuag at gyngor a chymorth tai ac ailgartrefi pobl. Dyna un o’r rhesymau pam y mae’r ddeddfwriaeth hon ger ein bron heddiw. Yr wyf yn amharod gorchymyn i gynghorau lleol sut y dylent wneud eu gwaith. Mae angen inni gynnig cyngor ac arweiniad a chaniatáu i gynghorau lleol ddod o hyd i’w ffordd eu hunain oddi mewn. Fodd bynnag, mae’n bwysig bod yn gyson.

I was talking about the extra—

Siaradwn am yr adnoddau ychwanegol —

Gwenda Thomas spoken in English p. 55

Gwenda Thomas siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 55

Do you agree that in certain circumstances it would be important to include child protection issues in those guidelines?

A gytunwch y byddai’n bwysig cynnwys materion diogelu plant yn y canllawiau hynny, mewn rhai amgylchiadau?

Peter Black spoken in English p. 56

Peter Black siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 56

I will have to come back to you on that, Gwenda. Child protection issues are important when dealing with homeless people, particularly young people, as Val mentioned earlier.

Bydd yn rhaid imi ddod yn ôl atoch ynglŷn â hynny, Gwenda. Mae materion diogelu plant yn bwysig wrth ddelio â phobl ddigartref, yn enwedig pobl ifanc, fel y crybwyllodd Val yn gynharach.

On the commitment on extra resources, this issue was raised by Janet Davies and William Graham. The consultation paper pointed out the potential demands created by and cost implications of extending the categories for priority need. It was not easy to quantify. The best estimate was that an additional 250 people a year would become eligible for housing under the new arrangements. Perhaps up to 50 per cent of those may require supported housing to retain their tenancies. Funding for this is to be made available from agreed additions to the supported housing revenue grant programme for future years. I refer Janet to the budget statements, which show that that money is included. Janet Ryder’s point about support in housing is also important. I was going to refer to that at the end of my speech.

Ynglŷn â’r ymrwymiad i roi mwy o adnoddau, codwyd y mater hwn gan Janet Davies a William Graham. Nododd y papur ymgynghorol y gofynion posibl a grëir drwy ehangu’r categorïau angen blaenoriaethol, a’r goblygiadau o ran cost. Nid oedd yn hawdd eu mesur. Yr amcangyfrif gorau oedd y byddai 250 o bobl ychwanegol y flwyddyn yn dod yn gymwys i gael tai o dan y trefniadau newydd. Efallai y bydd angen tai â chymorth ar hyd at 50 y cant o’r rheini er mwyn cadw eu tenantiaethau. Bydd arian ar gael ar gyfer hyn drwy ychwanegiadau y cytunwyd arnynt i’r rhaglen grant refeniw tai a gynorthwyir. Cyfeiriaf Janet at ddatganiadau’r gyllideb, a ddengys y cynhwysir yr arian hwnnw. Mae pwynt Janet Ryder am gymorth o ran tai yn bwysig hefyd. Bwriedais gyfeirio at hynny ar ddiwedd fy araith.

Geraint Davies spoken in English p. 56

Geraint Davies siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 56

Do you agree that there is a need for more resources for people in hostels to be given training in life skills so that they can live independent lifestyles in the future?

A gytunwch fod angen mwy o adnoddau i roi hyfforddiant mewn sgiliau bywyd i bobl mewn hosteli fel y gallant fyw mewn ffordd annibynnol yn y dyfodol?

Peter Black spoken in English p. 56

Peter Black siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 56

Valuable work is going on in terms of providing life skills to people in hostels or other accommodation and who have been homeless. I recently witnessed the work of Swansea’s Cymdeithas Caer Las, and the Cyrenians, also in Swansea, provide valuable employment. I am sure that that happens elsewhere in Wales. The provision of life skills is important and we will support it. It has to form part of the overall package of support that we give to homeless people to help to rehabilitate them and return them to what we term normal society and accommodation.

Gwneir gwaith gwerthfawr o ran rhoi sgiliau bywyd i bobl mewn hosteli neu lety arall a phobl a fu’n ddigartref. Gwelais waith Cymdeithas Caer Las yn Abertawe yn ddiweddar, a darpara’r Cyreniaid, hefyd yn Abertawe, gyflogaeth werthfawr. Yr wyf yn siŵr y digwydd hynny mewn mannau eraill yng Nghymru. Mae’r gwaith o ddarparu sgiliau bywyd yn bwysig ac fe’i cefnogwn. Rhaid iddo fod yn rhan o’r pecyn cymorth cyfan a roddwn i bobl ddigartref i helpu i’w hailsefydlu a’u dychwelyd i’r hyn y galwn yn gymdeithas a llety arferol.

Janet Davies also made a point about the Homelessness Commission. She complained that there no opposition parties are represented on the Homelessness Commission. It was not put together as a party commission but as a task and finish group involving housing professionals. The only politicians on it are the Chair of the Health and Social Services Committee, because we thought that we needed that perspective, the Chair of the Local Government and Housing Committee—because we wanted to ensure that we fed back into those Committees the conclusions of the commission and encourage a two-way dialogue between the Committees—and myself who chaired it. I am sorry that Janet feels aggrieved by that but this is not a political committee. It is a commission of professionals who will make recommendations to Assembly Ministers and the Local Government and Housing Committee, at which point the politicians and the political parties will no doubt have their say.

Gwnaeth Janet Davies bwynt am y Comisiwn Digartrefedd hefyd. Cwynodd na chynrychiolir unrhyw wrthblaid ar y Comisiwn Digartrefedd. Nis sefydlwyd fel comisiwn plaid ond fel grŵp gorchwyl a gorffen yn cynnwys gweithwyr proffesiynol ym maes tai. Yr unig wleidyddion sydd yn aelodau yw Cadeirydd y Pwyllgor Iechyd a Gwasanaethau Cymdeithasol, oherwydd inni gredu bod angen y safbwynt hwnnw arnom, Cadeirydd y Pwyllgor Llywodraeth Leol a Thai—oherwydd inni ddymuno sicrhau ein bod yn rhoi adborth i’r Pwyllgorau hynny am gasgliadau’r comisiwn ac annog trafodaeth ddwy ffordd rhwng y Pwyllgorau—a minnau’n gadeirydd. Mae’n drueni bod Janet yn teimlo’n ddig am hynny ond nid pwyllgor gwleidyddol ydyw. Comisiwn o weithwyr proffesiynol ydyw a wna argymhellion i Weinidogion y Cynulliad a’r Pwyllgor Llywodraeth Leol a Thai, lle y bydd y gwleidyddion a’r pleidiau gwleidyddol yn dweud eu dweud yn ddiamau.

Val Feld raised important points; the most difficult of which to answer was what happens to the process now. The Commission is not looking at legislation but at support and guidance. There are no further proposals for future legislation at this stage. Only one other item of legislation was recommended in Paul Bevan’s report on sleeping rough and that related to support. It is worth noting that the Assembly is funding an interesting project in Bridgend, through section 180, with Bridgend County Borough Council and Shelter to draw up personal housing plans for homeless people to try to ensure that appropriate support is provided for each person. The commission will consider a range of issues and I hope that that will enable us to find a way forward and recognise that this is a process, and not the end of the process but the start of it, and that the extra resources that the partnership Government is putting forward with those recommendations will take us forward.

Cododd Val Feld bwyntiau pwysig; y pwynt anosaf i’w ateb oedd beth sydd yn digwydd i’r broses yn awr. Nid ystyria’r Comisiwn ddeddfwriaeth ond cymorth ac arweiniad. Ni chynigir rhagor o ddeddfwriaeth yn y dyfodol ar hyn o bryd. Dim ond un darn arall o ddeddfwriaeth a argymhellwyd yn adroddiad Paul Bevan ar gysgu ar y stryd ac yr oedd hynny’n ymwneud â chymorth. Mae’n werth nodi bod y Cynulliad yn ariannu prosiect diddorol ym Mhen-y-bont ar Ogwr, drwy adran 180, a bydd Cyngor Bwrdeistref Sirol Pen-y-bont ar Ogwr yn llunio cynlluniau tai personol ar gyfer pobl ddigartref er mwyn ceisio sicrhau y darperir y cymorth sydd yn briodol ar gyfer pob person. Ystyria’r comisiwn amrywiaeth o faterion a gobeithiaf y galluoga hynny inni ddod o hyd i ffordd ymlaen a chydnabod mai proses yw hon, ac nid diwedd y broses ond dechrau’r broses ydyw, ac y bydd yr adnoddau ychwanegol a gyflwyna’r Llywodraeth bartneriaeth gyda’r argymhellion hynny yn mynd â ni yn ein blaen.

Val referred to the code of practice. That will hopefully be considered as a result of the commission’s recommendation. We cannot prejudge that—

Cyfeiriodd Val at y cod ymarfer. Gobeithir y caiff hynny ei ystyried fel canlyniad i argymhelliad y comisiwn. Ni allwn ragfarnu hynny—

Dafydd Elis-Thomas The Presiding Officer spoken in English p. 57

Dafydd Elis-Thomas Y Llywydd siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 57

You have had 16 minutes in opening and closing this debate so far.

Cawsoch 16 munud i agor a chloi’r ddadl hon hyd yma.

Peter Black spoken in English p. 57

Peter Black siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 57

I apologise. I will wind up. We will monitor how this is implemented and will look at intentionality. If we need to take further action, I am sure that we will consider it. I commend this motion to you and ask you to support it.

Ymddiheuraf. Deuaf i ben. Monitrwn sut y’i gweithredir ac edrychwn ar fwriadoldeb. Os bydd angen inni gymryd camau pellach, yr wyf yn siŵr y’u hystyriwn. Cymeradwyaf y cynnig hwn ichi a gofynnaf ichi ei gefnogi.

Dafydd Elis-Thomas Y Llywydd siaradwyd yn Gymraeg t. 58

Dafydd Elis-Thomas The Presiding Officer spoken in Welsh p. 58

Pleidleisiwn yn awr ar egwyddor y Gorchymyn.

We will now vote on the principle of the Order.

Cynnig Peter Black t. 58

Motion Peter Black p. 58

DerbyniwydAdopted O blaidFor 38 YmatalAbstain 0 Yn erbynAgainst 0

Derbyniwyd y cynnig.

Motion adopted.

Sut y pleidleisiodd yr AelodauHow Members voted
O blaidFor (38)
  • Lorraine Barrett
  • Mick Bates
  • Peter Black
  • Rosemary Butler
  • Alun Cairns
  • Christine Chapman
  • Jane Davidson
  • Andrew Davies
  • Geraint Davies
  • Janet Davies
  • Jocelyn Davies
  • Sue Essex
  • Val Feld
  • Michael German
  • Brian Gibbons
  • William Graham
  • John Griffiths
  • Alison Halford
  • Brian Hancock
  • Jane Hutt
  • Ann Jones
  • Carwyn Jones
  • Helen Mary Jones
  • Peter Law
  • Huw Lewis
  • David Melding
  • Tom Middlehurst
  • Jonathan Morgan
  • Rhodri Morgan
  • Lynne Neagle
  • Jenny Randerson
  • Rod Richards
  • Janet Ryder
  • Karen Sinclair
  • Gwenda Thomas
  • Rhodri Glyn Thomas
  • Kirsty Williams
  • Phil Williams

Dafydd Elis-Thomas Y Llywydd siaradwyd yn Gymraeg t. 58

Dafydd Elis-Thomas The Presiding Officer spoken in Welsh p. 58

Pleidleisiwn yn awr ar y cynnig i gymeradwyo’r Gorchymyn.

We will now vote on the motion to approve the Order.

Cynnig Peter Black t. 58

Motion Peter Black p. 58

DerbyniwydAdopted O blaidFor 38 YmatalAbstain 0 Yn erbynAgainst 0

Derbyniwyd y cynnig.

Motion adopted.

Sut y pleidleisiodd yr AelodauHow Members voted
O blaidFor (38)
  • Lorraine Barrett
  • Mick Bates
  • Peter Black
  • Rosemary Butler
  • Alun Cairns
  • Christine Chapman
  • Jane Davidson
  • Andrew Davies
  • Geraint Davies
  • Janet Davies
  • Jocelyn Davies
  • Sue Essex
  • Val Feld
  • Michael German
  • Brian Gibbons
  • William Graham
  • Alison Halford
  • Brian Hancock
  • Jane Hutt
  • Ann Jones
  • Carwyn Jones
  • Helen Mary Jones
  • Peter Law
  • Huw Lewis
  • David Melding
  • Tom Middlehurst
  • Jonathan Morgan
  • Rhodri Morgan
  • Lynne Neagle
  • Jenny Randerson
  • Rod Richards
  • Janet Ryder
  • Karen Sinclair
  • Gwenda Thomas
  • Owen John Thomas
  • Rhodri Glyn Thomas
  • Kirsty Williams
  • Phil Williams

Cymeradwyo Gorchymyn Deddf Llywodraeth Leol a Thai 1989 (Cyfathrebu Electronig) (Cymru) 2001

Approval of the Local Government and Housing Act 1989 (Electronic Communications) (Wales) Order 2001

Andrew Davies The Minister for Assembly Business spoken in English p. 59

Andrew Davies Y Trefnydd siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 59

I propose that

Cynigiaf fod

Andrew Davies The Minister for Assembly Business (continued) spoken in English p. 59

Andrew Davies Y Trefnydd (parhad) siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 59

I also propose that

Cynigiaf hefyd fod

Andrew Davies The Minister for Assembly Business (continued) spoken in English p. 60

Andrew Davies Y Trefnydd (parhad) siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 60

Today’s Order will enable the housing revenue accounts subsidy annual determinations to be issued to local authorities electronically via the Assembly’s website and e-mail facilities. Under sections 80 (a) and 87 of the Local Government and Housing Act 1989, the Assembly must notify local housing authorities of housing revenue account subsidy determinations in writing and send copies of their determinations to the authorities. The proposed Order will amend those sections to allow such HRAS annual determinations to be issued to local authorities electronically via the Assembly’s website and e-mail facilities. The Order is made using powers given to the Assembly under the Electronic Communications Act 2000. It is envisaged that this is the first of a large number of Orders made under that Act in this age of electronic communications, changing the requirements for legislation to be signed, done in writing, witnessed and so on and to allow equivalent types of electronic communication and verification. Having such facilities available for use in Wales would be a useful and effective option. It gets rid of using paper, using time consuming procedures and allows the Assembly to be more effective in its procedures. The Order should come into force on 1 April 2001. The minor drafting points raised by the Legislation Committee will be dealt with before the regulations are signed by the Presiding Officer.

Galluoga’r Gorchymyn heddiw i’r penderfyniadau blynyddol ar gymhorthdal cyfrifon refeniw tai gael eu hanfon i awdurdodau lleol yn electronig drwy wefan a chyfleusterau e-bost y Cynulliad. O dan adrannau 80 (a) ac 87 Deddf Llywodraeth Leol a Thai 1989, rhaid i’r Cynulliad hysbysu awdurdodau tai lleol am y penderfyniadau ar gymhorthdal cyfrifon refeniw tai yn ysgrifenedig ac anfon copïau o’u penderfyniadau at yr awdurdodau. Diwygia’r Gorchymyn arfaethedig yr adrannau hynny i ganiatáu i benderfyniadau blynyddol cymhorthdal cyfrifon refeniw tai gael eu hanfon i awdurdodau lleol yn electronig drwy wefan a chyfleusterau e-bost y Cynulliad. Gwneir y Gorchymyn gan ddefnyddio pwerau a roddwyd i’r Cynulliad o dan Ddeddf Cyfathrebu Electronig 2000. Rhagwelir mai’r cyntaf yw hwn o nifer fawr o Orchmynion a wneir o dan y Ddeddf hon yn yr oes hon o gyfathrebu electronig, gan newid y gofynion o ran llofnodi deddfwriaeth, ei chyflwyno’n ysgrifenedig a’i hardystio ac ati ac i ganiatáu mathau cyfatebol o gyfathrebu a gwirio electronig. Byddai cael cyfleusterau o’r fath i’w defnyddio yng Nghymru yn opsiwn defnyddiol ac effeithiol. Caiff wared â defnyddio papur a chaniatâ i weithdrefnau’r Cynulliad fod yn fwy effeithiol. Dylai’r Gorchymyn ddod i rym ar 1 Ebrill 2001. Delir â’r mân bwyntiau drafftio a godwyd gan y Pwyllgor Deddfau cyn i’r Llywydd lofnodi’r rheoliadau.

Janet Davies spoken in English p. 61

Janet Davies siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 61

This change to the legislation is much needed by local government. It means that information about the housing revenue account subsidy will be transmitted to it electronically. It needs to know as soon as possible what the figures will be each year. These calculations are complex and confusing. Housing subsidy is a rip-off for the tenants. It is a wheeze thought up by the former Conservative government in the UK and is, without a doubt, deplored by our own dear homegrown Welsh Conservatives. It was criticised by the—

Mae angen y newid hwn i’r ddeddfwriaeth ar lywodraeth leol yn fawr. Golyga y trosglwyddir gwybodaeth am gymhorthdal y cyfrif refeniw tai iddi yn electronig. Mae angen iddi wybod cyn gynted â phosibl beth fydd y ffigurau bob blwyddyn. Mae’r cyfrifiadau hyn yn gymhleth ac yn peri dryswch. Mae’r cymhorthdal tai yn wastraff arian i’r tenantiaid. Syniad llywodraeth Geidwadol flaenorol y DU ydyw ac mae’n Ceidwadwyr Cymru annwyl ein hunain yn ddiamau yn ei resynu. Fe’i beirniadwyd gan—

Alun Cairns spoken in English p. 61

Alun Cairns siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 61

What?

Beth?

Janet Davies spoken in English p. 61

Janet Davies siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 61

I described you in flattering terms. It was criticised by the then Labour opposition in Westminster and has been continued by Labour since it came to power. It is all about negative subsidy, which has meant a clawback of rents to central government in recent years. That has happened in every council in Wales with the exception of Rhondda Cynon Taff, which receives a positive subsidy of a grand total of 42p per house, per week. However, the negative subsidy—a polite term for what this is—varies from just 50p per house, per week in Merthyr, to £3.70 in Blaenau Gwent, to £10.10 in Gwynedd, to the highest of £17.40 in the Vale of Glamorgan. I am sure that the wealthy citizens of Gibbonstown in Barry, and the agricultural workers of the rural Vale of Glamorgan find no problem in handing over that much rent a week to central government instead of it being spent on keeping their houses in good condition and up to modern standards.

Fe’ch disgrifiais â geiriau teg. Fe’i beirniadwyd gan yr wrthblaid Lafur ar y pryd yn San Steffan ac fe’i parhawyd gan y Blaid Lafur ers iddi ddod i rym. Mae’r cyfan yn ymwneud â chymhorthdal negyddol, a olygodd adennill rhenti i’r llywodraeth ganolog yn ystod y blynyddoedd diwethaf. Digwyddodd hynny ym mhob cyngor yng Nghymru ac eithrio Rhondda Cynon Taf, sydd yn cael cymhorthdal cadarnhaol o gyfanswm o 42c y tŷ, yr wythnos. Fodd bynnag, mae’r cymhorthdal negyddol—term cwrtais am yr hyn y mae—yn amrywio o ddim ond 50c y tŷ, yr wythnos ym Merthyr, i £3.70 ym Mlaenau Gwent, i £10.10 yng Ngwynedd, i’r uchaf sef £17.40 ym Mro Morgannwg. Yr wyf yn siŵr na chaiff trigolion cyfoethog Gibbonstown yn y Barri a’r gweithwyr amaethyddol yng nghefn gwlad Bro Morgannwg unrhyw broblem i roi cymaint o rent â hynny i’r llywodraeth ganolog yn lle ei gwario i gadw eu tai mewn cyflwr da ac i safonau modern.

Negative housing subsidy means that the Government claws back money from rents towards rent rebates. It has increased dramatically since 1990. It does not come from the Department of Social Security or from the revenue support grant or council tax, but out of the rent paid by poor people in Wales to help the very poorest. That is not my idea of Robin Hood, or socialism.

Golyga cymhorthdal tai negyddol fod y Llywodraeth yn adennill arian o renti i roi i ad-daliadau rhent. Cynyddodd yn sylweddol ers 1990. Ni ddaw o Adran Nawdd Cymdeithasol na’r grant cymorth refeniw na’r dreth gyngor, ond o’r rhent a delir gan bobl dlawd yng Nghymru i helpu’r tlotaf. Nid fy syniad i o Robin Hood, na sosialaeth, yw hynny.

The campaign being waged is called, quite rightly, daylight robbery—

Lladrad noeth a elwir yr ymgyrch hon, a hynny’n gwbl briodol—

Rod Richards siaradwyd yn Gymraeg t. 62

Rod Richards spoken in Welsh p. 62

Pwynt o drefn. Yr wyf wedi gwrando yn astud ar yr araith hon; yn fy marn i—a hoffwn arweiniad gennych, Lywydd—nid yw’r hyn y mae Janet yn ei ddweud yn berthnasol i’r Cynulliad gefnogi’r cynnig hwn.

Point of order. I have listened intently to this speech; in my opinion—and I would like your guidance on this, Presiding Officer—what Janet says is not relevant to the Assembly’s supporting this motion.

Dafydd Elis-Thomas Y Llywydd siaradwyd yn Gymraeg t. 62

Dafydd Elis-Thomas The Presiding Officer spoken in Welsh p. 62

Yr wyf yn ddiolchgar am y pwynt o drefn hwnnw. Fodd bynnag, hyd yn hyn mae Janet Davies yn trafod egwyddor y Gorchymyn.

I am grateful for that point of order. However, so far Janet has been discussing the principle of the Order.

Janet Davies spoken in English p. 62

Janet Davies siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 62

This daylight robbery lets the higher-rate income tax payer, such as ourselves, off the hook and strings the council rent payer up.

Mae’r lladrad noeth hwn yn achub croen talwyr treth incwm cyfradd uchel, megis ninnau, ac yn crogi talwyr rhent cyngor.

Our Welsh Government cannot act on that because it does not control its own purse strings. Its pocket money is doled out by the ‘grown-ups’ in Westminster and Whitehall. However, if this Government does not tell those grown-ups how wrong they are, and if it is not nagging them about Welsh priorities, it is high time that it began to do so.

Ni all ein Llywodraeth ein hunain yng Nghymru wneud unrhyw beth am hynny gan na reola ei phwrs ei hunan. Dosberthir ei arian poced gan yr ‘oedolion’ yn San Steffan a Whitehall. Fodd bynnag, os na ddywed y Llywodraeth hon wrth yr oedolion hynny pa mor anghywir ydynt, ac os nad yw’n eu hatgoffa drwy’r amser am flaenoriaethau Cymreig, mae’n hen bryd iddi ddechrau ei wneud.

Making the calculations too complex for most people to understand may, in the past, have been seen as a clever wheeze, but you cannot fool all of the people all of the time.

Efallai yr ystyriwyd gwneud y cyfrifiadau yn rhy gymhleth i’r rhan fwyaf o bobl eu deall yn syniad da yn y gorffennol, ond ni allwch dwyllo pawb bob amser.

Andrew Davies spoken in English p. 62

Andrew Davies siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 62

I have no doubt that my colleague Edwina Hart will respond to Janet’s points about housing revenue account subsidy, but I will say—returning to the principle of this Order—that we believe that this change will contribute to increasing the use of electronic communications in Assembly business. I am pleased to say that as the Minister with responsibility for e-commerce. It will lead to a more cost-effective, efficient and effective means of communication. Local authorities and other interested parties will be consulted before the option to issue determinations electronically is exercised. I therefore ask you to support the motion.

Nid amheuaf y bydd fy nghyd-Aelod Edwina Hart yn ymateb i bwyntiau Janet am gymhorthdal y cyfrif refeniw tai, ond dywedaf—i ddychwelyd i egwyddor y Gorchymyn hwn—y credwn y bydd y newid hwn yn cyfrannu at gynyddu’r defnydd o gyfathrebu electronig ym musnes y Cynulliad. Mae’n bleser gennyf ddweud hynny fel y Gweinidog sydd yn gyfrifol am e-fasnach. Arweinia at ffyrdd mwy cost-effeithiol, effeithlon ac effeithiol o gyfathrebu. Ymgynghorir ag awdurdodau lleol a phartïon perthnasol eraill cyn yr arferir yr opsiwn i anfon penderfyniadau yn electronig. Felly, gofynnaf ichi gefnogi’r cynnig.

Dafydd Elis-Thomas Y Llywydd siaradwyd yn Gymraeg t. 62

Dafydd Elis-Thomas The Presiding Officer spoken in Welsh p. 62

Pleidleisiwn yn awr ar egwyddor y Gorchymyn.

We will now vote on the principle of the Order.

Cynnig Andrew Davies t. 62

Motion Andrew Davies p. 62

DerbyniwydAdopted O blaidFor 36 YmatalAbstain 0 Yn erbynAgainst 0

Derbyniwyd y cynnig.

Motion adopted.

Sut y pleidleisiodd yr AelodauHow Members voted
O blaidFor (36)
  • Lorraine Barrett
  • Mick Bates
  • Peter Black
  • Rosemary Butler
  • Alun Cairns
  • Christine Chapman
  • Jane Davidson
  • Andrew Davies
  • Glyn Davies
  • Janet Davies
  • Jocelyn Davies
  • Sue Essex
  • Val Feld
  • Michael German
  • Brian Gibbons
  • William Graham
  • John Griffiths
  • Alison Halford
  • Brian Hancock
  • Jane Hutt
  • Ann Jones
  • Gareth Jones
  • Helen Mary Jones
  • Peter Law
  • Huw Lewis
  • David Melding
  • Jonathan Morgan
  • Rhodri Morgan
  • Lynne Neagle
  • Rod Richards
  • Janet Ryder
  • Karen Sinclair
  • Gwenda Thomas
  • Owen John Thomas
  • Kirsty Williams
  • Phil Williams

Dafydd Elis-Thomas Y Llywydd siaradwyd yn Gymraeg t. 63

Dafydd Elis-Thomas The Presiding Officer spoken in Welsh p. 63

Pleidleisiwn yn awr ar y cynnig i gymeradwyo’r Gorchymyn.

We will now vote on the motion to approve the Order.

Cynnig Andrew Davies t. 63

Motion Andrew Davies p. 63

DerbyniwydAdopted O blaidFor 36 YmatalAbstain 0 Yn erbynAgainst 0

Derbyniwyd y cynnig.

Motion adopted.

Sut y pleidleisiodd yr AelodauHow Members voted
O blaidFor (36)
  • Lorraine Barrett
  • Mick Bates
  • Peter Black
  • Rosemary Butler
  • Alun Cairns
  • Christine Chapman
  • Jane Davidson
  • Andrew Davies
  • Glyn Davies
  • Janet Davies
  • Jocelyn Davies
  • Sue Essex
  • Val Feld
  • Michael German
  • William Graham
  • John Griffiths
  • Alison Halford
  • Brian Hancock
  • Jane Hutt
  • Ann Jones
  • Gareth Jones
  • Helen Mary Jones
  • Peter Law
  • Huw Lewis
  • David Melding
  • Tom Middlehurst
  • Jonathan Morgan
  • Rhodri Morgan
  • Lynne Neagle
  • Rod Richards
  • Janet Ryder
  • Karen Sinclair
  • Gwenda Thomas
  • Owen John Thomas
  • Kirsty Williams
  • Phil Williams

Cynnig Cyfansawdd: Cymeradwyo Gorchmynion Drafft

Composite Motion: Approval of Draft Orders

Andrew Davies The Minister for Assembly Business spoken in English p. 64

Andrew Davies Y Trefnydd siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 64

I propose that

Cynigiaf fod

Andrew Davies The Minister for Assembly Business (continued) spoken in English p. 64

Andrew Davies Y Trefnydd (parhad) siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 64

approves the Highways Noise Payments (Moveable Homes) (Wales) Regulations 2001 laid in the Table Office on 24 January 2001; and

yn cymeradwyo Rheoliadau Taliadau Sŵn Priffyrdd (Cartrefi Symudol) (Cymru) 2001 a osodwyd yn y Swyddfa Gyflwyno ar 24 Ionawr 2001; ac

considers the report of the Legislation Committee which has not identified any matters for concern in the draft Order, the Highways Noise Payments (Moveable Homes) (Wales) Regulations 2001 laid in the Table Office on 6 February 2001.

yn ystyried adroddiad y Pwyllgor Deddfau, nad yw wedi nodi unrhyw faterion sydd yn peri pryder yn y Gorchymyn drafft, Rheoliadau Taliadau Sŵn Priffyrdd (Cartrefi Symudol) (Cymru) 2001 a osodwyd yn y Swyddfa Gyflwyno ar 6 Chwefror 2001.

Dafydd Elis-Thomas Y Llywydd siaradwyd yn Gymraeg t. 65

Dafydd Elis-Thomas The Presiding Officer spoken in Welsh p. 65

O dan Reol Sefydlog Rhif. 22.25, galwaf am bleidlais ar y cynnig hwn, nad yw’n destun dadl, yn syth.

Under Standing Order No. 22.25, I call for an immediate vote on this motion, which is not subject to debate.

Cynnig cyfansawdd Andrew Davies t. 65

Composite motion Andrew Davies p. 65

DerbyniwydAdopted O blaidFor 36 YmatalAbstain 0 Yn erbynAgainst 0

Derbyniwyd y cynnig.

Motion adopted.

Sut y pleidleisiodd yr AelodauHow Members voted
O blaidFor (36)
  • Lorraine Barrett
  • Mick Bates
  • Peter Black
  • Rosemary Butler
  • Alun Cairns
  • Christine Chapman
  • Jane Davidson
  • Andrew Davies
  • Glyn Davies
  • Janet Davies
  • Jocelyn Davies
  • Sue Essex
  • Val Feld
  • Michael German
  • Brian Gibbons
  • William Graham
  • John Griffiths
  • Alison Halford
  • Brian Hancock
  • Jane Hutt
  • Ann Jones
  • Gareth Jones
  • Helen Mary Jones
  • Peter Law
  • Huw Lewis
  • David Melding
  • Jonathan Morgan
  • Rhodri Morgan
  • Lynne Neagle
  • Rod Richards
  • Janet Ryder
  • Karen Sinclair
  • Gwenda Thomas
  • Owen John Thomas
  • Kirsty Williams
  • Phil Williams

Cynnig Trefniadol

Procedural Motion

Dafydd Elis-Thomas Y Llywydd siaradwyd yn Gymraeg t. 65

Dafydd Elis-Thomas The Presiding Officer spoken in Welsh p. 65

Fel y trafodwyd yn gynharach, galwaf yn awr ar y Trefnydd i gynnig cynnig trefniadol i ganiatáu cynnig heddiw gynnig heb ddyddiad trafod i gymeradwyo Rheoliadau’r Cynllun Taliadau Anarddwys 2001.

As discussed earlier, I now call the Minister for Assembly Business to propose a procedural motion to allow the proposal today of a no-named day motion to approve the Extensification Payment Scheme Regulations 2001.

Andrew Davies The Minister for Assembly Business spoken in English p. 66

Andrew Davies Y Trefnydd siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 66

I propose that

Cynigiaf fod

Dafydd Elis-Thomas Y Llywydd siaradwyd yn Gymraeg t. 66

Dafydd Elis-Thomas The Presiding Officer spoken in Welsh p. 66

Mae angen i 10 Aelod ddangos bod cefnogaeth inni symud ymlaen â’r cynnig trefniadol. Gwelaf fod 10 Aelod yn cefnogi hyn, felly awn ymlaen â’r bleidlais.

Ten Members must indicate that there is support for us to move forward with the procedural motion. I see that 10 Members support this, therefore we will proceed to a vote.

Cynnig trefniadol Andrew Davies t. 66

Procedural motion Andrew Davies p. 66

DerbyniwydAdopted O blaidFor 36 YmatalAbstain 0 Yn erbynAgainst 0

Derbyniwyd y cynnig.

Motion adopted.

Sut y pleidleisiodd yr AelodauHow Members voted
O blaidFor (36)
  • Lorraine Barrett
  • Mick Bates
  • Peter Black
  • Rosemary Butler
  • Alun Cairns
  • Christine Chapman
  • Jane Davidson
  • Andrew Davies
  • Glyn Davies
  • Janet Davies
  • Jocelyn Davies
  • Sue Essex
  • Delyth Evans
  • Val Feld
  • Michael German
  • Brian Gibbons
  • William Graham
  • John Griffiths
  • Alison Halford
  • Brian Hancock
  • Jane Hutt
  • Ann Jones
  • Gareth Jones
  • Helen Mary Jones
  • Peter Law
  • Huw Lewis
  • David Melding
  • Jonathan Morgan
  • Rhodri Morgan
  • Lynne Neagle
  • Rod Richards
  • Janet Ryder
  • Karen Sinclair
  • Gwenda Thomas
  • Kirsty Williams
  • Phil Williams

Cymeradwyo Rheoliadau’r Cynllun Taliadau Anarddwys 2001

Approval of the Extensifcation Payment Scheme Regulations 2001

Andrew Davies The Minister for Assembly Business spoken in English p. 67

Andrew Davies Y Trefnydd siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 67

I propose that

Cynigiaf fod

Cynnig Andrew Davies t. 67

Motion Andrew Davies p. 67

DerbyniwydAdopted O blaidFor 36 YmatalAbstain 0 Yn erbynAgainst 0

Derbyniwyd y cynnig.

Motion adopted.

Sut y pleidleisiodd yr AelodauHow Members voted
O blaidFor (36)
  • Lorraine Barrett
  • Mick Bates
  • Peter Black
  • Rosemary Butler
  • Alun Cairns
  • Jane Davidson
  • Andrew Davies
  • Glyn Davies
  • Janet Davies
  • Jocelyn Davies
  • Sue Essex
  • Delyth Evans
  • Val Feld
  • Michael German
  • Brian Gibbons
  • William Graham
  • John Griffiths
  • Alison Halford
  • Brian Hancock
  • Jane Hutt
  • Gareth Jones
  • Helen Mary Jones
  • Peter Law
  • Huw Lewis
  • David Melding
  • Tom Middlehurst
  • Jonathan Morgan
  • Rhodri Morgan
  • Lynne Neagle
  • Rod Richards
  • Janet Ryder
  • Karen Sinclair
  • Gwenda Thomas
  • Owen John Thomas
  • Kirsty Williams
  • Phil Williams

Daeth y Dirprwy Lywydd i’r Gadair am 4.25 p.m.

The Deputy Presiding Officer took the Chair at 4.25 p.m.

Y Strategaeth Sgiliau Sylfaenol

The Basic Skills Strategy

John Marek The Deputy Presiding Officer spoken in English p. 68

John Marek Y Dirprwy Lywydd siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 68

I have selected amendment 1 in the name of William Graham and amendments 2, 3 and 4 in the name of Jocelyn Davies.

Yr wyf wedi dethol gwelliant 1 yn enw William Graham a gwelliannau 2, 3 a 4 yn enw Jocelyn Davies.

Jane Davidson The Minister for Education and Lifelong Learning spoken in English p. 68

Jane Davidson Y Gweinidog dros Addysg a Dysgu Gydol Oes siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 68

I propose that

Cynigiaf fod

Jane Davidson The Minister for Education and Lifelong Learning (continued) spoken in English p. 68

Jane Davidson Y Gweinidog dros Addysg a Dysgu Gydol Oes (parhad) siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 68

We have a problem with basic skills in Wales. Too many children are at risk in their early years. Teachers of young children will tell you that as soon as they start school, some children are already at a disadvantage because they will not have socialised as much with children of their own age as their peers have done, and their parents will not have read to them. At the end of key stage 1, one in 10 of our children do not achieve a level that demonstrates good understanding, which is a basic skill. Around a quarter leave primary school at the end of key stage 2 ill-equipped for the more demanding secondary curriculum. One in three young people leave school with basic skills that are not good enough for employers—some 600,000 people in Wales. The problem continues into adulthood.

Mae gennym broblem o ran sgiliau sylfaenol yng Nghymru. Mae llawer gormod o blant yn agored i risg yn eu blynyddoedd cynnar. Bydd athrawon plant ifanc yn dweud wrthych y bydd rhai plant eisoes dan anfantais cyn gynted ag y maent yn dechrau yn yr ysgol am nad ydynt wedi cymdeithasu gymaint â phlant o’r un oedran o’i gymharu â’u cyfoedion, ac ni fydd eu rhieni wedi darllen yn uchel iddynt. Ar ddiwedd cyfnod allweddol 1, mae un o bob 10 o’n plant heb gyrraedd lefel sydd yn dangos dealltwriaeth dda, sydd yn sgil sylfaenol. Mae tua chwarter yn gadael yr ysgol gynradd ar ddiwedd cyfnod allweddol 2 heb feddu ar sgiliau ar gyfer y cwricwlwm uwchradd mwy ymestynnol. Mae un o bob tri person ifanc yn gadael yr ysgol â sgiliau sylfaenol nad ydynt yn ddigon da i gyflogwyr—tua 600,000 o bobl yng Nghymru. Mae’r broblem yn parhau wrth dyfu’n oedolyn.

What I have said so far paints a bleak picture. However, we must not let this cloud our progress and achievements so far. The targets that we set for education in 2000 were challenging. Some have been met or exceeded. The target for 11-year-olds was for 60 to 70 per cent to achieve level 4 or better on the national curriculum scale in core subjects. That target was met, with 71 per cent of 11-year-olds achieving level 4 or better in English and mathematics. Targets for 14-year-olds were just as challenging. Again, they were met. The number of adults on basic education courses continues to rise, as does our investment. These results are testament to the dedication of teachers, schools, colleges and local education authorities in addressing low levels of literacy and numeracy. They are also testament to the Assembly’s desire to tackle this important issue.

Mae’r hyn a ddywedais hyd yma yn rhoi darlun du. Fodd bynnag, rhaid inni beidio â gadael i hyn dynnu sylw oddi wrth ein cynnydd a’n cyflawniadau hyd yma. Yr oedd y targedau a bennwyd gennym ar gyfer addysg yn 2000 yn rhai ymestynnol. Cyflawnwyd rhai ohonynt a rhagorwyd ar rai eraill. Y targed ar gyfer plant 11 oed oedd bod 60 i 70 y cant yn cyrraedd lefel 4 neu’n well ar raddfa’r cwricwlwm cenedlaethol mewn pynciau craidd. Cyflawnwyd y targed hwnnw, gyda 71 y cant o blant 11 oed yn cyrraedd lefel 4 neu’n well yn Saesneg a mathemateg. Yr oedd y targedau ar gyfer plant 14 oed yr un mor ymestynnol. Unwaith eto, fe’u cyflawnwyd. Mae nifer yr oedolion ar gyrsiau addysg sylfaenol, a’n buddsoddiad ni, yn parhau i godi. Mae’r canlyniadau hyn yn dyst i ymroddiad athrawon, ysgolion, colegau ac awdurdodau addysg lleol wrth fynd i’r afael â lefelau isel o lythrennedd a rhifedd. Maent hefyd yn dyst i awydd y Cynulliad i fynd i’r afael â’r mater pwysig hwn.

The ability to read, write, and use numbers is essential, even for the most simple and common tasks, such as understanding a newspaper or a medicine bottle, checking change at the supermarket, helping children with their homework, or applying for a job. People who experience difficulty with literacy and numeracy face these problems every day of their lives. These are problems that can exclude them from their communities and sometimes even from their families. We want to enable all those who experience literacy and numeracy difficulties to look to a brighter future, where they no longer need to hide their problem. The cost to the individual is severe and is our main concern. There are other factors that must also be considered in any effective strategy.

Mae’r gallu i ddarllen, ysgrifennu a defnyddio rhifau yn hanfodol, hyd yn oed ar gyfer y tasgau mwyaf syml a chyffredin, fel deall papur newydd neu botel o ffisig, gwirio newid mewn archfarchnad, helpu plant gyda’u gwaith cartref, neu wneud cais am swydd. Mae pobl a gaiff anawsterau llythrennedd a rhifedd yn wynebu’r problemau hyn bob dydd. Mae’r rhain yn broblemau a all eu hallgáu o’u cymunedau ac weithiau hyd yn oed eu teuluoedd. Yr ydym am alluogi pawb sydd ag anawsterau llythrennedd a rhifedd i edrych ymlaen at ddyfodol mwy disglair, lle na fydd angen iddynt gelu eu problem. Mae’r unigolyn yn talu’n hallt a dyna ein prif bryder. Mae ffactorau eraill y mae’n rhaid eu hystyried hefyd mewn unrhyw strategaeth effeithiol.

People with basic skills problems often feel unable to contribute effectively to society. We know, for instance, that people with low levels of literacy and numeracy are also less likely to vote in elections. In terms of industry, employers increasingly need well-educated, trained and adaptable workforces. The ability to read, write and use numbers is an essential skill in most occupations. The estimated cost of the basic skills deficit to industry in Wales is approximately £588 million. That presents a big challenge for us.

Yn aml, teimla pobl â phroblemau sgiliau sylfaenol na allant gyfrannu’n effeithiol at gymdeithas. Gwyddom, er enghraifft, fod pobl sydd a chanddynt lefelau isel o lythrennedd a rhifedd hefyd yn llai tebygol o bleidleisio mewn etholiadau. O ran diwydiant, mae cyflogwyr yn chwilio am fwy o weithwyr hyblyg sydd wedi cael addysg dda a hyfforddiant. Mae’r gallu i ddarllen, ysgrifennu a defnyddio rhifau yn sgil hanfodol yn y rhan fwyaf o alwedigaethau. Amcangyfrifir bod y diffyg sgiliau sylfaenol yn costio tua £588 miliwn i ddiwydiant yng Nghymru. Mae hynny’n her fawr inni.

I turn to the amendments. I welcome the fact that all the amendments welcome and endorse the strategy. William Graham’s amendment 1 asks us to place emphasis on those who leave full-time education without basic skills. The strategy proposes a range of actions to tackle post-16 issues. I believe strongly that we must take a rounded view, tackling initiatives across the board, looking at early years along with primary and secondary schools. A new initiative for post-16 education that will be particularly important is the requirement of all organisations publicly-funded by ELWa to assess students’ literacy and numeracy skills in a co-ordinated way soon after entry. That will provide the necessary evidence for us to implement the strategy at post-16 level. I hope that it gives William confidence that, although I do not support amendment 1 so that it does not skew the strategy to concentrate on adults, we will take on board the concerns that he has identified in asking for that emphasis.

Trof at y gwelliannau. Croesawaf y ffaith fod pob un o’r gwelliannau yn croesawu ac yn cymeradwyo’r strategaeth. Mae gwelliant 1 William Graham yn gofyn inni roi pwyslais ar y rhai sydd yn gadael addysg amser llawn heb sgiliau sylfaenol. Cynigia’r strategaeth ystod o gamau i fynd i’r afael â materion ôl-16. Credaf yn gryf bod yn rhaid inni gymryd safbwynt cyffredinol, gan fynd i’r afael â mentrau ym mhob sector, gan edrych ar y blynyddoedd cynnar ynghyd â’r ysgolion cynradd ac uwchradd. Un fenter ar gyfer addysg ôl-16 a fydd yn arbennig o bwysig yw’r gofyniad i bob sefydliad a ariennir yn gyhoeddus gan ELWa asesu sgiliau llythrennedd a rhifedd myfyrwyr mewn ffordd gydlynus yn fuan ar ôl iddynt gael eu derbyn. Bydd hynny’n rhoi’r dystiolaeth angenrheidiol inni weithredu strategaeth ar lefel ôl-16. Er na chefnogaf welliant 1, fel na fo’n gwyrdroi’r strategaeth i ganolbwyntio ar oedolion, gobeithiaf allu tawelu pryderon William y byddwn yn ystyried y pryderon a nodwyd ganddo wrth ofyn am y pwyslais hwnnw.

I am happy to support Jocelyn Davies’s amendment 2. Significant improvement in the level of basic skills in Wales will contribute to greater social inclusion and the strategy identifies opportunities to integrate with Communities First proposals, and identifies issues surrounding poverty and social exclusion as root causes. Jocelyn Davies’s amendment 3 seeks to apply the recommendation of the Welsh Affairs Select Committee’s report into social exclusion in Wales as a means of improving basic skills. Many of the Committee’s recommendations and statements are of a broader nature than basic skills, and feature in our social inclusion action plan, which we will debate next week. I assure Jocelyn that our basic skills strategy will lead to more inclusiveness. However, it would be inappropriate to brigade it with all of the Committee’s findings, which could diminish its focus. Therefore, I do not support that amendment.

Yr wyf yn fodlon cefnogi gwelliant 2 Jocelyn Davies. Bydd gwelliannau sylweddol o ran lefel sgiliau sylfaenol yng Nghymru yn cyfrannu tuag at fwy o gynhwysiant cymdeithasol a noda’r strategaeth gyfleoedd i gyfuno â chynigion Rhoi Cymunedau’n Gyntaf, a materion sydd yn ymwneud â thlodi ac allgáu cymdeithasol fel achosion craidd. Ceisia gwelliant 3 Jocelyn Davies gymhwyso argymhelliad adroddiad y Pwyllgor Dethol ar Faterion Cymreig ar allgáu cymdeithasol yng Nghymru fel modd o wella sgiliau sylfaenol. Mae llawer o argymhellion a datganiadau’r Pwyllgor yn ehangach eu cwmpas na sgiliau sylfaenol, ac maent yn nodwedd o’n cynllun gweithredu ar gynhwysiant cymdeithasol, y cynhelir dadl arno yr wythnos nesaf. Sicrhaf Jocelyn y bydd ein strategaeth sgiliau sylfaenol yn arwain at fwy o gynhwysiant. Fodd bynnag, byddai’n amhriodol ei gynnwys â holl ganfyddiadau’r Pwyllgor, a allai leihau ei ffocws. Felly, ni chefnogaf y gwelliant hwnnw.

I have some difficulty with Jocelyn Davies’s amendment 4, which I do not support. While I accept that low levels of basic skills are present in disadvantaged communities—one of the key reasons why we must take action on basic skills in schools—I do not accept the premise of market-driven inequalities in statutory education. The causes of poor basic skills are complex, as the strategy acknowledges, and the actions we intend to take will address them positively.

Mae gwelliant 4 Jocelyn Davies yn peri peth anhawster imi, ac nid wyf yn ei gefnogi. Er fy mod yn derbyn bod lefelau isel o sgiliau sylfaenol mewn cymunedau difreintiedig—un o’r rhesymau allweddol pam bod yn rhaid inni weithredu ar sgiliau sylfaenol mewn ysgolion—ni dderbyniaf y syniad o anghydraddoldebau a yrrir gan y farchnad ym maes addysg statudol. Mae achosion sgiliau sylfaenol gwael yn gymhleth, fel y mae’r strategaeth yn ei gydnabod, a bydd y camau y bwriadwn eu cymryd yn mynd i’r afael â hwy mewn ffordd gadarnhaol.

In drawing up the basic skills strategy for Wales we considered Sir Claus Moser’s report on improving literacy and numeracy ‘A Fresh Start’, which sets out the blueprint to solving the problem in England. Although our needs are distinctive to Wales, that report has helped us focus more clearly on the problems and identify some of the solutions. However, it deals exclusively with the post-16 sector, which, in Wales, does not go far enough. We want to stop the problems starting. That is why we need a strategy that tackles this issue at all levels. We must not focus solely on adults; we must focus across the school system. Our vision is inclusive; to ensure that today’s younger generations and adults are freed from the constraints of literacy and numeracy difficulties. Our aim can be expressed simply as reducing the numbers of children, young people and adults who experience difficulty with reading, writing or using numbers. We must cover all ages, and we must not give the impression that children are not a priority for basic skills. There must be an emphasis on tackling the basic skills problems of children and adults. I firmly believe that that is the right approach and look forward to Members’ contributions to the debate.

Wrth lunio strategaeth sgiliau sylfaenol Cymru, ystyriasom adroddiad Syr Claus Moser ar wella llythrennedd a rhifedd, ‘A Fresh Start’, sydd yn nodi canllawiau ar gyfer datrys y broblem yn Lloegr. Er bod ein hanghenion yn unigryw i Gymru, mae’r adroddiad hwnnw wedi ein helpu i ganolbwyntio’n fwy clir ar y problemau a nodi rhai o’r atebion. Fodd bynnag, dim ond gyda’r sector ôl-16 a ymdrinia, nad yw, yng Nghymru, yn mynd yn ddigon pell. Yr ydym am atal y problemau rhag dechrau. Dyna pam bod angen inni gael strategaeth sydd yn mynd i’r afael â’r mater hwn ar bob lefel. Rhaid inni beidio â chanolbwyntio ar oedolion yn unig; rhaid inni ganolbwyntio ar draws y system ysgolion. Mae ein gweledigaeth yn un gynhwysol; er mwyn sicrhau y caiff cenedlaethau iau ac oedolion heddiw eu rhyddhau rhag cyfyngiadau oherwydd anawsterau llythrennedd a rhifedd. Gellir mynegi ein nod yn syml fel un sydd am leihau nifer y plant, pobl ifanc ac oedolion a gaiff anhawster darllen, ysgrifennu a defnyddio rhifau. Rhaid inni gwmpasu pob oedran, a rhaid inni beidio â rhoi’r argraff nad yw plant yn flaenoriaeth ar gyfer sgiliau sylfaenol. Rhaid bod pwyslais ar fynd i’r afael â phroblemau sgiliau sylfaenol plant ac oedolion. Credaf yn gryf mai hon yw’r ymagwedd gywir ac edrychaf ymlaen at gyfraniadau’r Aelodau yn y ddadl.

Jonathan Morgan spoken in English p. 72

Jonathan Morgan siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 72

I propose amendment 1 in the name of William Graham. Add new clause (b) and reorder subsequent clauses:

Cynigiaf welliant 1 yn enw William Graham. Ychwanegu cymal (b) newydd ac aildrefnu’r cymalau dilynol:

Jonathan Morgan (continued) spoken in English p. 72

Jonathan Morgan (parhad) siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 72

I welcome the opportunity to debate this important issue and congratulate the Minister on presenting the report to the Assembly. I am sure that the motion will gain all-party support. Although I do not wish to descend into a trite phrase, it is appalling that, in 2001, nearly 800,000 people in Wales have serious problems with basic skills, even though our country is part of the United Kingdom, which has the fourth largest economy in the world. Overcoming those problems will be a key challenge for the Assembly during the next 10 years. I have one warning: we have seen many strategies produced over the past couple of years in key skills and other areas of education and training deficiencies in Wales. Although these strategies line our bookcases well, we want them to do more than that. We want to see them being implemented, action plans being drawn from them and measures being brought forward as quickly as possible to tackle these difficult problems.

Croesawaf y cyfle i gael dadl ar y mater pwysig hwn a llongyfarchaf y Gweinidog ar gyflwyno’r adroddiad i’r Cynulliad. Yr wyf yn siŵr y caiff y cynnig gefnogaeth pob plaid. Er nad wyf am ddechrau ystrydebu, mae’n warthus, yn 2001, bod gan bron i 800,000 o bobl yng Nghymru broblemau difrifol o ran sgiliau sylfaenol, er bod ein gwlad yn rhan o’r Deyrnas Unedig, sydd yn bedwaredd o’r brig yn fyd-eang o ran maint ei heconomi. Bydd goresgyn y problemau hyn yn her allweddol i’r Cynulliad yn ystod y 10 mlynedd nesaf. Mae un rhybudd gennyf: gwelsom strategaethau lu yn cael eu llunio yn ystod yr ychydig flynyddoedd diwethaf ar sgiliau allweddol a diffygion mewn meysydd eraill o addysg a hyfforddiant yng Nghymru. Er bod y strategaethau hyn yn llenwi ein silffoedd, yr ydym am iddynt wneud mwy na hynny. Yr ydym am eu gweld yn cael eu rhoi ar waith, cynlluniau gweithredu yn cael eu llunio ohonynt a mesurau yn cael eu cyflwyno mor fuan â phosibl er mwyn mynd i’r afael â’r problemau anodd hyn.

I am pleased that the report flags up the problem of the link between truancy and poor basic skills, and also the link between those currently serving prison sentences and poor basic skills. One of the most disturbing statistics in the report is that two-thirds of prisoners in jails have problems with literacy and numeracy. If we are to tackle the problem of ex-prisoners re-offending, we must tackle the deficiency in literacy and numeracy among prisoners. That must be tackled within the prison service and earlier on. There is a vicious circle where children within the school sector become truants and then face a lack of skills. Unfortunately, many of them fall into trouble and some end up in prison. That vicious circle is difficult to break. The Assembly could have a great impact if it gets the measures right.

Yr wyf yn falch bod yr adroddiad yn nodi problem y cyswllt rhwng triwantiaeth a sgiliau sylfaenol gwael a’r cyswllt hefyd rhwng y rhai sydd yn y carchar ar hyn o bryd a sgiliau sylfaenol gwael. Un o’r ystadegau mwyaf brawychus yn yr adroddiad yw bod gan ddau o bob tri charcharor broblemau llythrennedd a rhifedd. Er mwyn inni fynd i’r afael â phroblem cyn-garcharorion yn troseddu drachefn, rhaid inni fynd i’r afael â’r diffyg llythrennedd a rhifedd ymhlith carcharorion. Rhaid mynd i’r afael â hynny o fewn y gwasanaeth carchardai a chyn hynny. Mae cylch anfad lle y daw plant ysgol yn driwantiaid ac yna i wynebu diffyg sgiliau. Yn anffodus, mae llawer ohonynt yn mynd i helynt ac mae rhai yn mynd i’r carchar. Mae’n anodd torri’r cylch anfad hwnnw. Gallai’r Cynulliad gael effaith fawr pe bai’n sicrhau bod ei fesurau’n gywir.

As the Minister explained, much is being done to deal with literacy and numeracy in the primary sector. However, the work seems to ease off by the first year of secondary school. The review of key stage 3 of the national curriculum will be paramount to improving the early years in the secondary school sector.

Fel yr eglurodd y Gweinidog, gwneir cryn dipyn i ymdrin â llythrennedd a rhifedd yn y sector cynradd. Fodd bynnag, ymddengys fod y gwaith yn lleihau erbyn blwyddyn gyntaf yr ysgol uwchradd. Bydd adolygiad cyfnod allweddol 3 y cwricwlwm cenedlaethol yn holl bwysig i wella’r blynyddoedd cynnar yn y sector ysgolion uwchradd.

I have a number of concerns about the report. It does not go far enough in highlighting in great detail the deficiencies in information technology capabilities, particularly among young people. Being capable of using a Sony PlayStation 2 does not make you capable of using a computer generally. It does not make a young person IT literate. The report refers in some detail to those from disadvantaged groups in society and to the link between poverty, poor parenting and poor basic skills, for example. IT literacy does not follow any traditional boundaries of class. Many young people from middle-class backgrounds leave school with poor IT skills. It hits young people and children from all walks of life. Many young people who leave schools in Wales and go on to university to pursue academic courses do not have the necessary IT skills to embark upon their university studies. Does the Minister have any plans to examine how IT can be further built into the existing curriculum at post-16 level and from key stage 3? A great deal of work needs to be done. Much of it is linked to the information communication technology report that will be debated in Plenary in two weeks time. However, much work needs to be done to cure some of these deficiencies.

Mae gennyf nifer o bryderon ynglŷn â’r adroddiad. Nid yw’n mynd yn ddigon pell i nodi’n fanwl y diffygion o ran galluoedd technoleg gwybodaeth, yn enwedig ymhlith pobl ifanc. Nid yw’r gallu i ddefnyddio Sony PlayStation 2 yn golygu eich bod yn gallu defnyddio cyfrifiadur yn gyffredinol. Ni olyga fod gan berson ifanc fedrau TG. Cyfeiria’r adroddiad yn fanwl at y rheini o grwpiau difreintiedig mewn cymdeithas a’r cyswllt rhwng tlodi, magu gwael a sgiliau sylfaenol gwael, er enghraifft. Nid yw medrau TG yn dilyn unrhyw ffiniau dosbarth traddodiadol. Mae llawer o bobl ifanc o gefndir dosbarth canol yn gadael yr ysgol gyda sgiliau TG gwael. Effeithia ar bobl ifanc a phlant o bob cefndir. Nid oes gan lawer o bobl ifanc yng Nghymru sydd yn gadael yr ysgol ac yn mynd ymlaen i’r brifysgol i ddilyn cyrsiau academaidd y sgiliau TG angenrheidiol er mwyn cychwyn ar eu hastudiaethau yn y brifysgol. A yw’r Gweinidog yn bwriadu archwilio sut y gellir cynnwys TG ymhellach yn y cwricwlwm presennol ar lefel ôl-16 ac o gyfnod allweddol 3 ymlaen? Mae angen gwneud cryn dipyn o waith. Mae llawer ohono yn gysylltiedig â’r adroddiad ar dechnoleg gwybodaeth a chyfathrebu y cynhelir dadl arno yn y Cyfarfod Llawn ymhen pythefnos. Fodd bynnag, mae angen gwneud cryn dipyn o waith i unioni rhai o’r diffygion hyn.

Much of the report’s detail refers to the role of parents and, in particular, how parents for whom literacy and numeracy is a problem and parents from socially disadvantaged backgrounds do not play their full role in assisting with the development and education of their children. This strategy and its proposals should not replace the role of parents, particularly those who do not empathise with their children’s predicament. Parents should, in particular, be encouraged to teach their children how to read at home. It is all very well to pick up the pieces and try to alleviate the problems at our end, but something must be done to address bad parenting because we cannot do that at this end. Something must be in place to address parenting problems from a parents’ perspective.

Cyfeiria llawer o fanylion yr adroddiad at rôl rhieni ac, yn arbennig, at y ffordd nad yw rhieni â phroblemau llythrennedd a rhifedd a rhieni o gefndir cymdeithasol ddifreintiedig yn chwarae rhan lawn i gynorthwyo datblygiad ac addysg eu plant. Ni ddylai’r strategaeth hon a’i chynigion ddisodli rôl y rhieni, yn enwedig y rhai nad ydynt yn cydymdeimlo â thrafferthion eu plant. Dylid annog rhieni, yn arbennig, i ddysgu eu plant sut i ddarllen gartref. Ni thycia i ni yn y Cynulliad fynd i’r adwy a cheisio lliniaru’r problemau yn unig; rhaid gwneud rhywbeth i fynd i’r afael â sgiliau rhieni gwael gan nad yw’n bosibl i ni fod yn rhieni. Rhaid rhoi rhywbeth ar waith a fydd yn mynd i’r afael â phroblemau â’r sgiliau hyn o safbwynt rhieni.

In some ways, this report may be a dreadful recognition that some parents do not support the their children’s development actively enough through educational means such as reading and other methods. Our amendment is fitting because it does not skew the motion, as the Minister put it, but highlights the concerns. The basic skills’ deficiencies are not confined to children and young people alone, but are certainly prevalent among many adults in Wales. Therefore, our amendment seeks to reinforce moves to improve adult literacy and numeracy. I would have liked the report to address a greater partnership between the public and private sectors. We know that the private sector has a role to play and that there is a need for on-the-job training. The further education sector has done pioneering work in supporting basic and key skills by working with companies and supporting employees who find that they have certain deficiencies. As we know, following the shake-up of the job market over the last few years, there is clearly no such thing as a job for life. The more that we can do to assist on-the-job training for staff, the greater the impact will be.

Mewn sawl ffordd, efallai bod yr adroddiad hwn yn cydnabod y ffaith erchyll nad yw rhai rhieni yn cefnogi datblygiad eu plant yn ddigon gweithredol drwy ddulliau addysgol megis darllen ac fel arall. Mae ein gwelliant yn un priodol am mai nodi’r pryderon a wna yn hytrach na gwyrdoi’r cynnig, fel y dywedodd y Gweinidog. Nid gan blant a phobl ifanc yn unig y mae diffyg sgiliau sylfaenol; mae’n sicr yn gyffredin ymhlith llawer o oedolion yng Nghymru. Felly, ceisia ein gwelliant ategu’r ymgais i wella llythrennedd a rhifedd ymhlith oedolion. Hoffwn pe bai’r adroddiad wedi mynd i’r afael â phartneriaeth fwy rhwng y sector cyhoeddus a’r sector preifat. Gwyddom fod rôl i’r sector preifat a bod angen hyfforddiant mewn swydd. Mae’r sector addysg bellach wedi arloesi yn ei waith ar ategu sgiliau sylfaenol ac allweddol drwy weithio gyda chwmnïau a chefnogi cyflogeion sydd yn canfod bod ganddynt ddiffygion penodol. Fel y gwyddom, yn sgîl y newidiadau mawr yn y farchnad swyddi yn ystod yr ychydig flynyddoedd diwethaf, yn amlwg nid oes y fath beth â swyddi am oes. Po fwyaf y gallwn gynorthwyo ym maes hyfforddiant mewn swydd i staff, mwyaf oll fydd yr effaith.

Gareth Jones siaradwyd yn Gymraeg t. 74

Gareth Jones spoken in Welsh p. 74

Cynigiaf y gwelliannau canlynol yn enw Jocelyn Davies. Gwelliant 2. Ychwaneger ar ddiwedd cymal (b):

I propose the following amendments in the name of Jocelyn Davies. Amendment 2. Insert at the end of clause (b):

Gareth Jones (parhad) siaradwyd yn Gymraeg t. 74

Gareth Jones (continued) spoken in Welsh p. 74

Cynigiaf welliant 3. Ychwaneger cymal newydd ar ôl cymal (b) ac aildrefnu yn unol â hynny:

I propose amendment 3. Insert new clause after clause (b) and re-order accordingly:

Gareth Jones (parhad) siaradwyd yn Gymraeg t. 75

Gareth Jones (continued) spoken in Welsh p. 75

Cynigiaf welliant 4. Ychwaneger cymal newydd ar ôl cymal (b) ac aildrefnu yn unol â hynny:

I propose amendment 4. Insert new clause after clause (b) and re-order accordingly:

Gareth Jones (parhad) siaradwyd yn Gymraeg t. 75

Gareth Jones (continued) spoken in Welsh p. 75

Y mae’r cynnig sydd ger ein bron heddiw a’r ddogfen a’r strategaeth i wella rhifedd a llythrennedd yng Nghymru yn cadarnhau ffaith drist ac annerbyniol fod gan 780,000 o bobl Cymru broblemau yn y meysydd hyn sydd yn eu rhwystro rhag byw bywydau llawn ac yn achosi iddynt gael eu hallgáu o gymdeithas. Y mae gwybodaeth a thystiolaeth o’r fath naill ai’n feirniadaeth ar ein cyfundrefn addysg neu y mae’n deillio’n uniongyrchol o broblemau cymdeithasol ac economaidd dwys neu y mae’n gyfuniad ohonynt oll.

The motion before us today and the document and strategy to improve numeracy and literacy in Wales confirm a sad and unacceptable fact that 780,000 of the people of Wales have problems in these areas that prevent them from living full lives and exclude them from society. Such evidence and information is either a condemnation of our education system, or it arises directly from deep economic and social problems, or it could be a combination of both.

Y mae’n hynod o drist gorfod derbyn bod y sefyllfa yng Nghymru, o bobman, yn waeth na’r hyn ydyw mewn gwledydd eraill. Y mae gan 24 y cant o oedolion Cymru broblemau llythrennedd a rhifedd o gymharu â 22 y cant yng ngweddill Prydain, 17 y cant yng Nghanada, 14 y cant yn yr Almaen a dim ond 7 y cant yn Sweden. Y mae’r sefyllfa yn ofnadwy, a dweud y lleiaf.

It is extremely sad to have to admit that the situation in Wales, of all places, is worse than in other countries. Twenty-four per cent of adults in Wales have literacy and numeracy problems compared with 22 per cent in the rest of Britain, 17 per cent in Canada, 14 per cent in Germany and only 7 per cent in Sweden. The situation is shocking, to say the least.

Felly, y mae’r her yn glir a chroesawaf ymrwymiad y Cynulliad i fynd i’r afael â’r broblem. Cytunaf â swm a sylwedd y strategaeth ond hoffwn dynnu sylw at rai agweddau sydd yn achosi rhywfaint o bryder gan fod y ddogfen weithiau’n darllen fel un sydd yn chwilio am strategaeth yn hytrach na datganiad pendant, diamwys o strategaeth i newid pethau er gwell.

Therefore, the challenge is clear and I welcome the Assembly’s commitment to tackle the problem. I agree with most of the strategy, but I draw attention to certain aspects that cause some concern because the document sometimes gives the impression that it is searching for a strategy rather than setting out a clearly stated and unambiguous strategy to improve the situation.

Fel y gwyddoch, cyflwynasom welliannau sydd yn canolbwyntio ar yr angen dybryd i ystyried diffygion mewn sgiliau sylfaenol yng Nghymru mewn perthynas ag anfanteision cymdeithasol. Y mae’n afrealistig ystyried diffygion sgiliau sylfaenol yn ynysig a dylai’r strategaeth gynnwys mesurau a fydd, nid yn unig yn mynd i’r afael â’r diffygion yn y sgiliau, ond yn cyfrannu at ddiddymu tlodi ar yr un pryd. Bydd fy nghyd-Aelod Rhodri Glyn Thomas yn siarad am y gwelliannau hynny.

As you know, we have tabled amendments that concentrate on the pressing need to consider the terrible deficiency in basic skills in Wales in relation to social disadvantage. It is unrealistic to consider basic skills’ deficiencies in isolation and the strategy should include measures that will not only tackle the deficiencies, but will also assist in eradicating poverty. My colleague, Rhodri Glyn Thomas will speak on those amendments.

Yn gyffredinol, cefnogwn welliant William Graham ond teimlwn hefyd y byddai’n annoeth canolbwyntio ar un grŵp neu oedran yn unig. Y mae’r strategaeth yn dadlau’n groyw dros ddull gweithredu eang a chytunaf â hynny ac, o ganlyniad, byddwn yn atal ein pleidlais ar y gwelliant hwnnw. Mae’n anodd penderfynu ar hyn o bryd a fydd £27 miliwn dros dair blynedd yn ddigon o ystyried maint y broblem ac nad yw’r strategaeth yn manylu ar gostau’r gwahanol fesurau arfaethedig. Mae hynny’n wendid. Yr ydym yn dadlau yn y tywyllwch ar hyn o bryd. Mawr obeithiaf y bydd y £27 miliwn yn wirioneddol ychwanegol ac y bydd y Gweinidog yn datgelu ei darddiad i ni.

Generally, we support William Graham’s amendment, but we also feel that it would be unwise to concentrate solely on a specific age or group. The strategy makes a strong case for a broad approach with which we agree and, as a result, we will abstain on that amendment. It is difficult to know at present whether £27 million over three years will be sufficient, bearing in mind the size of the problem and that the strategy does not detail the costs of the various measures proposed. That is a flaw. We are debating in the dark at the moment. I greatly hope that the £27 million is truly additional and that the Minister will disclose its source to us.

Da yw cydnabod y stamp Cymreig ar y strategaeth. Mae hynny’n holl bwysig o ystyried y sefyllfa ddwyieithog yng Nghymru. Peidiwn ag anghofio hynny. Mae’r sefyllfa ddwyieithog yn gofyn am adnoddau ychwanegol ac mae ganddi fwy o ofynion. Mawr obeithiaf na welwn unrhyw gloffni ac na fydd Cymru yn llusgo ar ôl Lloegr sydd eisoes wedi datgelu rhai mesurau a fydd ar gael yno. Er enghraifft, mae’r Llywodraeth yn bwriadu talu £10 yr wythnos yn ychwanegol i oedolion a fydd yn chwilio am waith os cytunant i fynychu cwrs sgiliau sylfaenol. Mae’r Llywodraeth yno hefyd am fuddsoddi miliynau o bunnoedd mewn math o ganolfannau MOT lle y caiff oedolion sefyll profion rhifedd a llythrennedd.

We are pleased to see that the strategy has a Welsh stamp. That is crucial considering the bilingual situation in Wales. Let us not forget that. The bilingual situation will require additional resources and makes greater demands. I greatly hope that we will not see any procrastination and that Wales will not lag behind England, which has already announced some measures that will be implemented there. For example, the Government intends to pay an extra £10 a week to adults seeking jobs if they agree to attend a basic skills course. The Government there will also invest millions of pounds in MOT-like centres where adults will be able to take numeracy and literacy tests.

Nid wyf am funud yn dweud y dylem efelychu’r hyn sydd yn digwydd yn Lloegr ond gobeithio y cawn weld yr un dull gweithredu dychmygus a phoblogaidd yng Nghymru. Er enghraifft, mae staff yn Lloegr eisoes wedi eu hyfforddi i ddysgu’r oedolyn ym mha ganolfan bynnag y dymuna, boed dafarn neu archfarchnad yn ogystal â’r coleg. Byddai’n rhaid inni gynnwys y capel yng Nghymru.

I am not for a minute saying that we should emulate what is happening in England, but I hope that we will see the same imaginative and populist approach in Wales. For example, staff in England have already been trained to teach adults at the centre of their choice, be it a pub or supermarket as well as the college. We would have to include the chapel in Wales.

Prin yw’r cyfeiriadau yn y ddogen at ddulliau unigryw a dychmygus. Braidd yn draddodiadol yw’r syniadaeth ynddi, sydd yn galw’n bennaf am adeiladu ar bolisïau sydd eisoes yn bodoli ac yn pwyso’n drwm ar gyfraniad cyrff diogel megis Estyn, Awdurdod Cymwysterau, Cwricwlwm ac Asesu Cymru ac ELWa. A yw’r cyrff hyn ac eraill yn debygol o ddatblygu polisïau cyffrous, atyniadol a chwyldroadol? Nid yw’r ddogfen yn ymhelaethu ar fesurau penodol, enghreifftiol hyd yn oed, felly mae’n anodd rhagweld pa mor effeithiol a llwyddiannus fydd y strategaeth i geisio diddymu anfanteision tlodi a gwella sgiliau sylfaenol ar yr un pryd.

There is little reference in the document to unique and imaginative approaches. Its ideology is rather traditional, calling mainly for building on policies that are already in existence and leaning heavily on the contribution of well-established organisations like Estyn, ACCAC and ELWa. Are these organisations, and others, likely to develop exciting, attractive and revolutionary policies? The document does not elaborate on, or even give examples of, specific measures, so it is difficult to predict how effective and successful the strategy will be in seeking to eradicate the disadvantages of poverty and improving basic skills at the same time.

Ychydig o syniadau newydd sydd o dan y pennawd ‘Blynyddoedd cynnar ac ysgolion’. Cyfeiriodd Jonathan at hyn. Hoffwn fod wedi gweld, yn enwedig yng ngoleuni adroddiadau diweddar Estyn, flaengaredd newydd sbon i gynnal a gwella’r dilyniant rhwng ysgolion cynradd ac uwchradd.

Few new ideas appear under the heading ‘Early years and schools’. Jonathan referred to this. In the light of Estyn’s recent reports, I would have liked to have seen brand new innovation to sustain and improve the progression from primary to secondary schools.

Mae’r ddau sector, ysgolion ac ôl-16, yn dibynnu’n helaeth—yn or-ddibynnol efallai—ar yr asiantaeth sgiliau sylfaenol i ddod ag atebion a mesurau effeithiol. Mae cyfraniad yr asiantaeth yn gonglfaen i’r strategaeth. Er enghraifft, gofynnir i’r asiantaeth ddatblygu rhaglenni hyfforddi athrawon fel y medrant ymdopi â’r dasg. Mae hynny’n dipyn o gamp. A oes gan yr asiantaeth adnoddau digonol ar gyfer y dasg?

The two sectors, schools and post-16, depend heavily—are overly dependent perhaps—on the basic skills agency in finding answers and effective measures. The agency’s contribution is a cornerstone of the strategy. For example, the agency is asked to develop teacher training programmes so that they can cope with the task. That is quite an achievement. Does the agency have sufficient resources to carry out that task?

John Marek The Deputy Presiding Officer spoken in English p. 77

John Marek Y Dirprwy Lywydd siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 77

You have had six minutes.

Yr ydych wedi cael chwe munud.

Gareth Jones siaradwyd yn Gymraeg t. 77

Gareth Jones spoken in Welsh p. 77

Gwnaf un neu ddau o bwyntiau pellach. Mae hon yn ddadl holl bwysig. Yr wyf yn falch fod y strategaeth yn cydnabod yr angen am flaengaredd ac ymchwil newydd. Synnaf nad oes cyfeiriad at y defnydd y gellid ei wneud o arian Amcan 1. Hefyd, pa gymariaethau a wnaethpwyd â gwledydd eraill i weld pa ragoriaethau y gallwn eu hefelychu?

I will make a further point or two. This is a crucial debate. I am pleased that the strategy acknowledges the need for new research and innovation. I am surprised that there is no reference to the use that can be made of Objective 1 money. Also, what comparisons have been made with other countries to identify successful schemes that we could emulate?

Dylid anelu’r strategaeth at yr unigolyn ac nid categorïau neu grwpiau. Mae gan bob unigolyn anghenion arbennig a diwallu’r anghenion hynny yw’r nod ac nid bodloni a diwallu targedau ac ystadegau cenedlaethol. Dyna pam y cytunaf gant y cant â dehongliad Susan Pember, cyfarwyddwraig uned strategaeth sgiliau sylfaenol oedolion Lloegr wrth sôn am ei strategaeth ar gyfer gwella rhifedd a llythrennedd, pan ddywed bod pob un o’r saith miliwn o bobl ar lefel wahanol, a bod cymaint o wahanol strategaethau ag sydd o ddysgwyr.

This strategy should be aimed at individuals and not categories or groups. Every individual has particular needs and meeting those needs is the aim, rather than reaching national targets and statistics. That is why I agree 100 per cent with Susan Pember, the director of the adult basic skills strategy unit in England, about its strategy for improving numeracy and literacy, when she said that there are seven million people all at a different level, and that there are as many different strategies as there are learners.

Ni fydd ond un syniad yn unig. Mawr obeithiwn y bydd yr un meddylfryd a gweledigaeth chwyldroadol ar droed yng Nghymru yn ystod y tair blynedd nesaf ac wedi hynny. Cawn weld.

There will not be just one idea. I greatly hope that the same mindset and revolutionary vision will be at work in Wales during the next three years and beyond. We shall see.

John Marek The Deputy Presiding Officer spoken in English p. 78

John Marek Y Dirprwy Lywydd siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 78

Gareth, I allowed a 50 per cent extension to your time.

Gareth, caniateais ichi gael estyniad o 50 y cant i’ch amser.

Ann Jones spoken in English p. 78

Ann Jones siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 78

In welcoming this new strategy to tackle the basic skills shortfall in Wales, I will use my contribution to talk about how we can help people who are economically inactive and socially excluded because of their lack of basic skills such as literacy and numeracy. Many of us take these skills for granted. I agree with previous speakers that it is unacceptable that there are thousands of adults in Wales who are unable to read, write or use numbers. That excludes them from reading a bus timetable or understanding household bills. One in five adults of working age cannot look up a plumber in the Yellow Pages or even read the instructions on a medicine bottle, as the Minister has said. Even more have trouble with numbers. One in four adults has difficulty calculating the change at a supermarket even if they can look at the whole length of the till receipt and make any sense out of it.

Wrth groesawu’r strategaeth newydd hon i fynd i’r afael â’r diffyg sgiliau sylfaenol yng Nghymru, defnyddiaf fy nghyfraniad i i siarad am y ffordd y gallwn helpu pobl sydd yn economaidd-anweithredol ac yn cael eu hallgáu’n gymdeithasol oherwydd eu diffyg sgiliau sylfaenol fel llythrennedd a rhifedd. Mae llawer ohonom yn cymryd y sgiliau hyn yn ganiataol. Cytunaf â siaradwyr blaenorol ei bod yn annerbyniol bod miloedd o oedolion yng Nghymru na fedrant ddarllen, ysgrifennu na defnyddio rhifau. Mae hynny yn eu hatal rhag darllen amserlen bysiau neu ddeall biliau’r cartref. Ni all un o bob pump o oedolion o oedran gwaith edrych am blymer yn y Yellow Pages neu hyd yn oed ddarllen y cyfarwyddiadau ar botel o ffisig, fel y dywedodd y Gweinidog. Caiff mwy fyth anhawster o ran rhifau. Mae un oedolyn o bob pedwar yn cael anhawster i gyfrifo’r newid mewn archfarchnad hyd yn oed lle y gallant edrych i lawr eu derbynneb a gwneud unrhyw synnwyr ohoni.

We all recognise the positive effects on earnings and job prospects from having better numeracy and literacy skills. Only half of adults with poor literacy skills have a job. Forty-nine out of 50 jobs are not available to people without the basic skills, who have not mastered the three 3R’s. Unless we turn around the shocking performance on skills levels, we do not stand a snowball’s chance in hell of hitting our ambitious targets for economic growth. Countries such as Hungary or the Czech Republic have lower wages than us, but they have a high skills base. People who lack the basic literacy and numeracy skills find it harder to train and are less likely to succeed and will disengage with any training programme. Therefore, a vital part of the policies for training an adult workforce is to ensure that people reach it with a good grounding in basic skills.

Cydnabyddwn oll yr effeithiau cadarnhaol ar enillion a rhagolygon gwaith o feddu ar well sgiliau rhifedd a llythrennedd. Dim ond hanner yr oedolion a chanddynt sgiliau llythrennedd gwael sydd mewn swydd. Ni fydd 49 o bob 50 o swyddi ar gael i bobl heb sgiliau sylfaenol, sydd heb feistroli sgiliau darllen, ysgrifennu a rhifyddeg. Oni allwn wella’r perfformiad ofnadwy o ran lefelau sgiliau, nid oes gobaith inni gyrraedd ein targedau uchelgeisiol ar gyfer twf economaidd. Mae gan wledydd megis Hwngari neu’r Weriniaeth Tsiec gyflogau is na ni, ond mae ganddynt sylfaen sgiliau uwch. Mae pobl nad ydynt yn meddu ar sgiliau llythrennedd a rhifedd sylfaenol yn ei chael yn anos dilyn hyfforddiant, maent yn llawer llai tebygol o lwyddo a byddant yn datgysylltu oddi wrth unrhyw raglen hyfforddiant. Felly, un rhan hanfodol o’r polisïau ar gyfer hyfforddi gweithlu o oedolion yw sicrhau y bydd pobl yn ei gyrraedd a chanddynt afael dda ar sgiliau sylfaenol.

That is why I make no apologies for my party’s determination to drive up standards in all our schools. Our focus on literacy and numeracy strategies at the primary school level and throughout the education system to raise our standards of education, will lead us to economic success. However, we also need to focus on the skills deficit among economically inactive young people and today’s adults.

Dyna pam nad ymddiheuraf am benderfyniad fy mhlaid i sicrhau safonau uwch ym mhob un o’n hysgolion. Bydd ein ffocws ar strategaethau llythrennedd a rhifedd mewn ysgolion cynradd ac ar draws y system addysg er mwyn codi ein safonau ym maes addysg, yn ein harwain at lwyddiant economaidd. Fodd bynnag, mae angen hefyd inni ganolbwyntio ar y diffyg sgiliau ymhlith pobl ifanc economaidd-anweithredol ac oedolion heddiw.

Lifelong learning needs to be more than a slogan. We need to make it a reality, starting with those who missed out the first time around. I welcome the Minister’s commitment to cut the number of adults with basic skills problems by at least 25 per cent by 2004. I hope that we can make even more dramatic progress. Our strategy must be complemented by other initiatives that increase access to jobs and training such as the New Deal, the New Connexions service, the University for Industry and the development of individual learning accounts. The advent of the National Council for Education and Training in Wales, in particular, gives us an opportunity to break with past failures and to review the services on offer to the lowest skilled.

Mae angen i ddysgu gydol oes fod yn fwy na slogan. Mae angen inni ei wireddu, gan ddechrau gyda’r rhai a gollodd eu cyfle cyntaf. Croesawaf ymrwymiad y Gweinidog i leihau nifer yr oedolion a chanddynt broblemau sgiliau sylfaenol 25 y cant o leiaf erbyn 2004. Gobeithiaf y gallwn wneud cynnydd mwy syfrdanol byth. Rhaid i’n strategaeth gael ei hategu gan fentrau eraill a fydd yn rhoi gwell mynediad i swyddi a hyfforddiant fel y Fargen Newydd, gwasanaeth Cysylltiadau Newydd, y Brifysgol i Ddiwydiant a datblygiad cyfrifon dysgu unigol. Mae dyfodiad Cyngor Cenedlaethol Cymru dros Addysg a Hyfforddiant, yn arbennig, yn rhoi cyfle inni gefnu ar fethiannau’r gorffennol ac adolygu’r gwasanaethau a gynigir i’r rhai â’r sgiliau isaf.

I speak today as somebody failed by the formal education system. My former headteacher would say that I failed the education system, and not because of the lack of teaching. I could not easily slot into the categories that my teachers wanted me to slot into. Therefore, I could not wait to leave school at 16, and I left with very few formal qualifications. I owe an enormous gratitude to the support and training that I received from the Fire Brigades’ Union. I was encouraged to attend Wortley Hall in Sheffield and then Northern College in Barnsley. Thanks to that support from the trade union movement, I feel lucky that I was given a second chance. However, many of my peers in that school year who had equal ability—it must have been a bad year—never had the chance to develop. That is why I am such a believer in the value of the Wales union learning fund for its ability to reach people who would otherwise be unlikely to access training and skills development.

Siaradaf heddiw fel rhywun a siomwyd gan y system addysgol ffurfiol. Dywedai fy nghyn-bennaeth mai fi a siomodd y system addysg, ac nid oherwydd diffyg addysgu. Ni ellid fy ngosod yn hawdd yn y categorïau yr oedd fy athrawon am fy ngosod ynddynt. Felly yr oeddwn yn ysu am adael yr ysgol yn 16 oed, a phan adawais, ychydig iawn o gymwysterau ffurfiol oedd gennyf. Mae arnaf ddyled enfawr i’r gefnogaeth a’r hyfforddiant a gefais gan Undeb y Brigadau Tân. Fe’m hanogwyd i fynychu Wortley Hall yn Sheffield ac yna Northern College yn Barnsley. Oherwydd y gefnogaeth honno gan y mudiad undebol, teimlaf yn ffodus imi gael ail gyfle. Fodd bynnag, ni chafodd llawer o blant yn yr un flwyddyn â mi yn yr ysgol honno, a oedd â’r un gallu—rhaid mai blwyddyn wael ydoedd—fyth gyfle i ddatblygu. Dyna pam fy mod yn credu’n fawr yng ngwerth cronfa ddysgu undebol Cymru am ei gallu i gyrraedd pobl na fyddent fel arall yn debygol o gael cyfle i dderbyn hyfforddiant a datblygu sgiliau.

The work done through the Wales union learning fund shows what can be achieved, not through heavy-handed intervention, but by the Assembly supporting best practice with the trade unions and their partners—often their company bosses—who are increasingly best placed to foster the learning culture at the workplace. The projects supported have ranged from basic skills to continuing professional development, and have achieved some impressive results. For example, the Amalgamated Engineering and Electrical Union, Wales TUC and British Aerospace in Broughton are working together in partnership to develop better skills for the workforce. It is accepted that the traditional route of developing better skills through a personnel department has not always been the best way to identify the basic skills and key issues, because of possible embarrassment to the workforce. Therefore, at British Aerospace, the Wales union learning fund has developed learning reps, shopfloor workers who have been trained in learning issues and who were able to act as advocates and promoters of learning within a trusted atmosphere.

Dengys y gwaith a wneir drwy gronfa ddysgu undebol Cymru yr hyn y gellir ei gyflawni, nid drwy ymyriad llawdrom, ond drwy drefnu i’r Cynulliad gefnogi arfer gorau gyda’r undebau llafur a’u partneriaid—yn aml penaethiaid eu cwmnïau—sydd yn fwyfwy tebygol o fod yn y sefyllfa orau i feithrin y diwylliant dysgu yn y gweithle. Amrywiodd y prosiectau a gefnogwyd o sgiliau sylfaenol i ddatblygu proffesiynol parhaus, a chawsant rai canlyniadau da iawn. Er enghraifft, mae Undeb Arunedig y Peirianwyr a’r Trydanwyr, Cyngres Undebau Llafur Cymru a British Aerospace ym Mrychdyn yn gweithio gyda’i gilydd mewn partneriaeth i ddatblygu gwell sgiliau ar gyfer y gweithlu. Derbynnir nad llwybr traddodiadol o ddatblygu gwell sgiliau drwy adran bersonél oedd y ffordd orau bob amser o nodi’r sgiliau sylfaenol a’r materion allweddol, am fod hynny o bosibl yn peri embaras i’r gweithlu. Felly, yn British Aerospace, datblygodd cronfa ddysgu undebol Cymru gynrychiolwyr dysgu, sef gweithwyr ffatri a gafodd hyfforddiant ym materion dysgu ac a oedd yn gallu gweithredu fel eiriolwyr a hyrwyddwyr dysgu o fewn amgylchedd o ymddiriedaeth.

In addition, the Wales union learning fund has supported a basic skills programme that has been so successful and identified such a degree of need that British Aerospace has now gone into partnership with Deeside College to improve these skills.

Yn ogystal, mae cronfa ddysgu undebol Cymru wedi cynnal rhaglen sgiliau sylfaenol mor llwyddiannus ac a nododd gymaint o angen bod British Aerospace wedi llunio partneriaeth gyda Choleg Glannau Dyfrdwy i wella’r sgiliau hyn.

In a world of change, learning and adapting is the key to success for individuals and for the whole country. The process starts with getting the basics right in education. We must concentrate on that. We are committed to creating a culture of lifelong learning with opportunities where people learn new skills and develop that knowledge throughout their life.

Mewn byd sydd yn newid, mae dysgu ac addasu yn allweddol i lwyddiant unigolion ac i’r wlad gyfan. Mae’r broses yn dechrau drwy sicrhau sylfeini cywir mewn addysg. Rhaid inni ganolbwyntio ar hynny. Yr ydym yn ymrwymedig i greu diwylliant o ddysgu gydol oes gyda chyfleoedd i bobl ddysgu sgiliau newydd a datblygu’r wybodaeth honno drwy gydol eu bywydau.

Rhodri Glyn Thomas spoken in Welsh and English p. 81

Rhodri Glyn Thomas siaradwyd yn Gymraeg ac yn Saesneg t. 81

I will refer to the issues raised in the Plaid Cymru’s amendments.

yn Saesneg Cyfeiriaf at y materion a godwyd yng ngwelliannau Plaid Cymru.

The strategy’s proposals are commendable. They aim to reduce barriers, enhance people’s motivation and rationalise basic skills provision and assessment across the board. However, amendment 2 gives greater attention to the fact that social disadvantage often leads directly to educational disadvantage for many people in Wales. The basic skills strategy includes a few references to the link between poor levels of basic skills and poverty, but they are often cursory and not incisive. I am, therefore, grateful that Jane Davidson has accepted this amendment. However, I am concerned that in refusing to adopt amendments 3 and 4, she is divorcing education and training from the economic and social environment. There are root social and economic causes for poor educational performance. These causes can bring the additional problems of lack of motivation, low self-esteem and disillusionment, which are further barriers to educational achievement.

yn Saesneg Mae cynigion y strategaeth yn glodwiw. Eu nod yw lleihau rhwystrau, gwella cymhelliant pobl ac ad-drefnu’r broses o ddarparu ac asesu sgiliau yn gyffredinol. Fodd bynnag, rhydd gwelliant 2 fwy o sylw i’r ffaith bod anfantais gymdeithasol yn aml yn arwain yn uniongyrchol at anfantais addysgol i lawer o bobl yng Nghymru. Mae’r strategaeth sgiliau sylfaenol yn cynnwys ychydig o gyfeiriadau at y cyswllt rhwng lefelau gwael o sgiliau sylfaenol a thlodi, ond maent yn aml yn arwynebol a heb fod yn dreiddgar. Felly yr wyf yn ddiolchgar bod Jane Davidson wedi derbyn y gwelliant hwn. Fodd bynnag, yr wyf yn pryderu ei bod, drwy wrthod mabwysiadu gwelliannau 3 a 4, yn datgysylltu addysg a hyfforddiant oddi wrth yr amgylchedd economaidd a chymdeithasol. Mae achosion craidd cymdeithasol ac economaidd dros berfformiad addysg gwael. Gall yr achosion hyn esgor ar broblemau ychwanegol diffyg cymhelliant, diffyg hunan-barch a dadrithiad, sydd yn rhwystrau pellach rhag cyrhaeddiad addysgol.

The people that this strategy aims to help are those whom the education system has failed because of a range of complex social reasons. Educationalists refer to individuals’ learning identities as the main determinant in educational attainment and participation in lifelong learning. Our learning identity is formed through social and family influences and through past influences of compulsory schooling.

yn Saesneg Y bobl y mae’r strategaeth hon yn anelu at eu helpu yw’r rhai a siomwyd gan y system addysgol oherwydd ystod o resymau cymdeithasol cymhleth. Cyfeiria addysgwyr at hunaniaethau dysgu unigolion fel y prif ffactor sydd yn pennu cyrhaeddiad addysgol a chyfranogiad mewn dysgu gydol oes. Lluniwyd hunaniaeth ddysgu pob un ohonom drwy ddylanwadau cymdeithasol a theuluol a thrwy ddylanwad addysg orfodol yn y gorffennol.

This strategy is a positive declaration of intent. However, in order to be fully effective it must be accompanied by wider measures to improve the learner identities of people with poor, basic skills, where in many cases, socio-economic factors are the major determinant.

yn Saesneg Mae’r strategaeth hon yn ddatganiad cadarnhaol o fwriad. Fodd bynnag, er mwyn bod yn gwbl effeithiol rhaid ei gweithredu ar y cyd â mesurau ehangach i wella hunaniaethau dysgu pobl â sgiliau sylfaenol gwael, a achosir yn aml gan ffactorau economaidd-cymdeithasol.

What kind of strategies do we mean? Plaid Cymru’s amendment 3

yn Saesneg Pa fath o strategaethau sydd gennym mewn golwg? Mae gwelliant 3 Plaid Cymru

‘supports the recommendations of the House of Commons Welsh Affairs Select Committee into social exclusion in Wales as a means of improving levels of basic skills’.

yn Saesneg ‘yn cefnogi argymhellion Pwyllgor Dethol ar Faterion Cymreig Tŷ’r Cyffredin ar allgáu cymdeithasol yng Nghymru fel modd i wella lefelau sgiliau sylfaenol’.

The benefits system is key, although it is not something that the Assembly can influence directly. According to the House of Commons Welsh Affairs Select Committee’s report on social exclusion in Wales,

yn Saesneg Mae’r system budd-daliadau yn allweddol, er nad yw’n rhywbeth y gall y Cynulliad ddylanwadu arno yn uniongyrchol. Yn ôl adroddiad Pwyllgor Dethol ar Faterion Cymreig Tŷ’r Cyffredin ar allgáu cymdeithasol yng Nghymru,

‘At present, the benefits system allows people to survive, but does not lift them out of poverty’.

The report states that

yn Saesneg Noda’r adroddiad

‘If the Government is to succeed in encouraging skill-building, it must increase the level of benefits available to those in training,’

And that the Committee recommends that

yn Saesneg A bod y Pwyllgor yn argymell bod

‘the Government introduce a system of tapering benefits for people moving into jobs or self-employment…’

That should be with possible added incentives for undertaking basic or further skills training. The report further states that the Committee asks the National Assembly

yn Saesneg Dylai hynny fod â chymhellion ychwanegol posibl ar gyfer ymgymryd â hyfforddiant sgiliau sylfaenol neu bellach. Noda’r adroddiad ymhellach fod y Pwyllgor yn gofyn i’r Cynulliad Cenedlaethol

‘to ensure that skills-building is at the heart of its Objective 1 strategy.’

I am sure that this view will be met with universal approval.

yn Saesneg Yr wyf yn siŵr y bydd pawb yn cymeradwyo’r farn hon.

The report continues by stating that the WDA and ELWa, the new council for training and education, could examine the examples of best practices in the provision of skills training that the Select Committee investigated during its study.

yn Saesneg Â’r adroddiad yn ei flaen drwy nodi y gallai’r WDA ac ELWa, sef y cyngor hyfforddiant ac addysg newydd, archwilio’r enghreifftiau o arferion gorau ym maes darparu hyfforddiant sgiliau yr ymchwiliwyd iddynt gan y Pwyllgor Dethol yn ystod ei astudiaeth.

The degree of variation in schools’ performance is worrying and unacceptable. However, current Government policy is geared towards embedding the competitive market ethos in education, which will only exacerbate the inequality in standards.

yn Saesneg Mae’r graddau o amrywiaeth ym mherfformiad ysgolion yn achos pryder ac yn annerbyniol. Fodd bynnag, mae polisi cyfredol y Llywodraeth wedi ei anelu at sicrhau bod ethos y farchnad gystadleuol yn rhan annatod o addysg, na fydd ond yn dwysáu’r anghydraddoldebau mewn safonau.

An article by Michael Prowse in The Financial Times on 27 January clearly stated that

yn Saesneg Nododd erthygl Michael Prowse yn The Financial Times ar 27 Ionawr yn eglur bod

‘Markets have many merits but uniformity of service quality is not one of them….The market has no interest in equality. What it tends to produce is a hierarchical ordering in which access to the best products and services…is reserved for those with the greatest means.’

We have a great difficulty. If we move towards a system in education and training that is geared towards selection, we must remember that selection also means rejection. The people we should be helping are those who are rejected.

yn Saesneg Mae gennym anhawster mawr. Os symudwn tuag at system o addysg a hyfforddiant sydd wedi ei hanelu at ddethol, rhaid inni gofio bod dethol hefyd yn golygu gwrthod. Y bobl y dylem fod yn eu helpu yw’r rhai a wrthodir.

Schools serving socially disadvantaged areas are, by and large, not best placed in this order of hierarchy. They struggle in the competitive market, which makes it increasingly difficult to maintain high standards in the education and training that they attempt to deliver.

yn Saesneg Nid yr ysgolion a wasanaetha ardaloedd sydd o dan anfantais gymdeithasol sydd yn y safle gorau, ar y cyfan, yn yr hierarchaeth hon. Cânt anhawster yn y farchnad gystadleuol, sydd yn ei gwneud yn fwyfwy anodd i sicrhau bod yr addysg a’r hyfforddiant y maent yn ceisio eu darparu o safon uchel.

Statistics produced by the Basic Skills Agency reveal that the lowest levels of numeracy and literacy exist, unsurprisingly, in the most socially deprived areas of Wales. Standards in education need to be assured for all if we are to make lasting, long-term inroads into the basic skills deficit in Wales.

yn Saesneg Nid oed ryfedd fod yr ystadegau a gyhoeddwyd gan yr Asiantaeth Sgiliau Sylfaenol yn dangos mai yn yr ardaloedd mwyaf cymdeithasol-ddifreintiedig yng Nghymru y mae’r lefelau isaf o rifedd a llythrennedd. Mae angen sicrhau safonau mewn addysg i bawb er mwyn inni wneud cynnydd parhaol, tymor hir o ran y diffyg sgiliau sylfaenol yng Nghymru.

Sylweddolaf fod amser yn brin ond mae gennyf un pwynt pwysig i’w wneud. A oes gan yr Asiantaeth Sgiliau Sylfaenol adnoddau digonol ar gyfer y dasg? Mae’n amhosibl dweud hynny nes y gwelwn fanylion a dyraniadau ariannol y strategaeth. Yn Lloegr, er enghraifft, sefydlwyd asiantaeth sgiliau sylfaenol ar gyfer oedolion yn unig. Mae angen uned gyffelyb yng Nghymru i gynnal gwaith ymchwil a dyfeisio mesurau effeithiol, Cymreig a dwyieithog.

in Welsh I realise that time is running out, but I have one important point to make. Does the Basic Skills Agency have sufficient resources for the task? We will not know until we see the strategy’s financial details and allocations. In England, for example, a basic skills agency for adults only has been established. We need a similar unit in Wales to conduct research work and devise effective, Welsh and bilingual measures.

Mae’r strategaeth yn rhoi pwyslais ar ddulliau asesu. Derbyniaf fod yn rhaid asesu, ond byddai’n gamgymeriad sylfaenol i or-fuddsoddi mewn profion yn hytrach nag asesiadau o’r gallu i ddefnyddio sgiliau.

in Welsh The strategy’s emphasis is on assesment methods. I accept that assessment must take place, but it would be a fundamental mistake to over-invest in tests rather than in assessments of the ability to use skills.

John Marek The Deputy Presiding Officer spoken in English p. 83

John Marek Y Dirprwy Lywydd siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 83

Order. Rhodri, you have had six minutes. Will you please wind up?

Trefn. Rhodri, yr ydych wedi cael chwe munud. A wnewch chi ddirwyn i ben os gwelwch yn dda?

Rhodri Glyn Thomas siaradwyd yn Gymraeg t. 83

Rhodri Glyn Thomas spoken in Welsh p. 83

Gall hynny fod yn asesiad dros gyfnod o amser yn hytrach nag un prawf neu arholiad. Yn aml, yr ydym yn sôn am bobl sydd wedi methu o fewn y system addysg. Mae’n bwysig ein bod yn anelu ein strategaeth tuag at y bobl hynny.

That could be an assessment over a period of time rather than one test or examination. We often talk of people who have failed within the education system. It is important that we aim our strategy at those people.

John Marek The Deputy Presiding Officer spoken in English p. 84

John Marek Y Dirprwy Lywydd siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 84

There are two more speakers. I would be grateful if they could take less than five minutes each. Otherwise, we will run into difficulties.

Mae dau siaradwr arall. Byddwn yn ddiolchgar pe gallent gymryd llai na phum munud yr un. Fel arall, cawn anawsterau.

Lorraine Barrett spoken in English p. 84

Lorraine Barrett siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 84

I did not mind Gareth Jones running over his allocated time as he has had an enforced absence from the Chamber. I welcome him back and hope he is on the road to recovery.

Nid oedd gwahaniaeth gennyf fod Gareth Jones wedi cael mwy na’i amser penodedig am nad oedd yn gallu bod yn y Siambr am gyfnod. Fe’i croesawaf yn ôl a gobeithiaf ei fod yn gwella.

I will discuss two obvious issues. First, how to help adults who have poor basic skills. Secondly, ensuring that all children in Wales get the best start in life before starting school. We must also ensure that, when they are in school, they access the best learning opportunities that we can provide. As Jonathan said, it is not acceptable for children in the twenty-first century to leave school without the most basic learning skills. Jonathan also mentioned poor parenting skills. Schemes such as Sure Start will help many children and their families to learn how to play. Although most of us take that for granted, unfortunately not all parents know how to play with their children in a stimulating, fun and educational way. I hope that we will implement the report on early years education provision when we discuss it in a few weeks time, although I do not want to pre-empt anything. That report was commissioned by the former Pre-16 Education, Schools and Early Learning Committee and is now being taken forward by the Education and Lifelong Learning Committee. All Members would agree that, by offering even a part-time place for three-year-olds, we will give children a good start in developing social and learning skills. Social skills are crucial to enabling children to develop and learn in a more formal way later on in their school life.

Trafodaf ddau fater amlwg. Yn gyntaf, sut i helpu oedolion â sgiliau sylfaenol gwael. Yn ail, sicrhau bod holl blant Cymru yn cael y cychwyn gorau mewn bywyd cyn dechrau yn yr ysgol. Rhaid inni hefyd sicrhau eu bod yn cael y cyfleoedd dysgu gorau posibl y gallwn eu rhoi iddynt pan fyddant yn yr ysgol. Fel y dywedodd Jonathan, nid yw’n dderbyniol i blant yn yr unfed ganrif ar hugain adael yr ysgol heb y sgiliau dysgu mwyaf sylfaenol. Soniodd Jonathan hefyd am sgiliau rhieni gwael. Bydd cynlluniau megis Cychwyn Cadarn yn helpu llawer o blant a’u teuluoedd i ddysgu sut i chwarae. Er bod y rhan fwyaf ohonom yn cymryd hynny’n ganiataol, yn anfoddus nid yw pob rhiant yn gwybod sut i chwarae â’u plant mewn ffordd ysgogol, hwyliog ac addysgol. Gobeithiaf y byddwn yn gweithredu’r adroddiad ar ddarpariaeth addysg blynyddoedd cynnar pan drafodwn ef ymhen ychydig wythnosau, er nad wyf am achub y blaen yn hynny o beth. Comisiynwyd yr adroddiad hwnnw gan y cyn Bwyllgor Addysg cyn 16-oed, Ysgolion ac Addysg Gynnar, a gweithredir arno erbyn hyn gan y Pwyllgor Addysg a Dysgu Gydol Oes. Byddai pob Aelod yn cytuno y byddwn yn rhoi cychwyn da i blant ddatblygu sgiliau cymdeithasol a dysgu drwy gynnig hyd yn oed lle rhan amser i blant teirblwydd. Mae sgiliau cymdeithasol yn holl bwysig er mwyn galluogi plant i ddatblygu a dysgu mewn ffordd fwy ffurfiol yn nes ymlaen yn yr ysgol.

Jane mentioned that adults with literacy problems are more unlikely to vote. On the day of the Assembly elections, I was approached by a friend who I have known since our children were in school together. It took a lot of guts on her part to tell me that she wanted me to accompany her to vote as she could not read. I took her to the polling clerk who assured her that he would place the cross against the name of the person for whom she wanted to vote, who happened to be me. It took a great deal of courage on her part to admit to someone she had known for 20 years that she could not read. She was very proud of the fact that she wrote on the ballot paper as well. We tend not to think about the basic things in life, which we take for granted.

Soniodd Jane fod oedolion â phroblemau llythrennedd yn llai tebygol o bleidleisio. Ar ddiwrnod etholiadau’r Cynulliad, cysylltodd ffrind â mi, yr wyf wedi ei hadnabod ers i’n plant fod yn yr ysgol gyda’i gilydd. Yr oedd yn rhaid iddi fagu plwc i ddweud wrthyf ei bod am imi fynd â hi i’r orsaf bleidleisio am nad oedd yn gallu darllen. Euthum â hi at glerc yr orsaf bleidleisio a’i sicrhaodd y byddai’n rhoi croes yn erbyn enw’r person yr hoffai bleidleisio drosto, sef fi, fel y mae’n digwydd. Yr oedd yn rhaid iddi fod ddewr iawn i gyfaddef i rywun yr oedd yn ei hadnabod ers 20 mlynedd na allai ddarllen. Yr oedd yn ymfalchïo’n fawr yn y ffaith iddi ysgrifennu ar y papur pleidleisio yn ogystal. Yr ydym yn tueddu i beidio â meddwl am y pethau sylfaenol mewn bywyd gan ein bod yn eu cymryd yn ganiataol.

I welcome the national campaign to raise awareness, which is set out in the strategy, as well as the effective improvement programme. As with the case of the friend that I mentioned, it is not easy to talk about this issue and, as a society, we do not talk openly about learning difficulties. Schemes, where adults can work with other adults or work within their families, can help them acknowledge that they have a problem and take action. I am sure that we would all welcome the family literacy and numeracy initiative. I have witnessed two good schemes in schools in my constituency. One in Penarth, where funding was provided for a community education teacher. She held a class every week with a small group of the school’s parents who had told the headteacher that they had literacy and numeracy difficulties and wanted to learn. The other scheme was at a primary school in St. Mellons, where six mothers worked with their children in the classroom. I was privileged to present certificates to the mothers and their children for succeeding in improving their reading skills. Any action taken to improve the reading, writing and arithmetic of our nation’s children and adults is to be welcomed. I welcome the strategy.

Croesawaf yr ymgyrch genedlaethol i godi ymwybyddiaeth, a amlinellir yn y strategaeth, ynghyd â’r rhaglen gwella effeithiol. Fel yn achos y ffrind a grybwyllais, nid yw’n hawdd siarad am y mater hwn ac, fel cymdeithas, nid ydym yn siarad yn agored am anawsterau dysgu. Gall cynlluniau, lle y gall oedolion weithio gydag oedolion eraill neu o fewn eu teuluoedd, eu helpu i gydnabod bod ganddynt broblem ac i weithredu i’w datrys. Yr wyf yn siŵr y byddem oll yn croesawu menter llythrennedd a rhifedd y teulu. Yr wyf wedi gweld dau gynllun da mewn ysgolion yn fy etholaeth i. Un ym Mhenarth, lle y darparwyd arian ar gyfer athro addysg gymunedol. Cynhaliodd ddosbarth bob wythnos gyda grŵp bach o rieni’r ysgol a ddywedodd wrth y pennaeth fod ganddynt anawsterau llythrennedd a rhifedd ac yr hoffent ddysgu. Yr oedd y cynllun arall mewn ysgol gynradd yn Llaneirwg, lle y gweithiai chwe mam gyda’u plant yn y dosbarth. Yr oedd yn fraint imi gyflwyno tystysgrifau i’r mamau a’u plant am lwyddo i wella eu sgiliau darllen. Rhaid croesawu unrhyw gamau i wella sgiliau darllen, ysgrifennu a rhifyddeg plant ac oedolion ein cenedl. Croesawaf y strategaeth.

Peter Black spoken in English p. 85

Peter Black siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 85

Education is the Liberal Democrats’ top priority. Education is the key to fulfilment, breaking out of poverty and social exclusion, and achievement. We welcome the adoption of a basic skills strategy because we recognise that basic skills such as numeracy and literacy are the key building blocks for educational achievement. We recognise that everybody will not be a super-achiever. Therefore, it is important to ensure that there is a basic standard of education that everyone can attain, irrespective of background or skill level.

Addysg yw prif flaenoriaeth y Democratiaid Rhyddfrydol. Mae addysg yn allweddol i gyflawniad, dianc rhag tlodi ac amgáu cymdeithasol, a chyrhaeddiad. Croesawn fabwysiadu’r strategaeth sgiliau sylfaenol am ein bod yn cydnabod bod sgiliau sylfaenol fel rhifedd a llythrennedd yn gonglfaen allweddol i gyrhaeddiad addysgol. Cydnabyddwn na all pawb gyflawni’n wych. Felly mae’n bwysig sicrhau bod safon sylfaenol o addysg y gall pawb ei chyrraedd, beth bynnag fo’u cefndir neu lefel eu sgiliau.

However, worthy aims are not enough. Financial backing is needed for such a strategy if it is to achieve results. Therefore, we welcome the fact that £27 million has been committed by the partnership Government to help boost the basic skills strategy over the next three years. This extra funding will help, for example, to support the development of local action plans and to strengthen the effectiveness of existing programmes.

Fodd bynnag, nid yw nodau clodwiw yn ddigon. Mae angen cefnogaeth ariannol er mwyn i strategaeth o’r fath gyrraedd y nod. Felly, croesawn y ffaith bod y Llywodraeth bartneriaeth wedi ymrwymo £27 miliwn i helpu i hybu’r strategaeth sgiliau sylfaenol dros y tair blynedd nesaf. Bydd yr arian ychwanegol hwn yn helpu, er enghraifft, i gynnal datblygiad cynlluniau gweithredu lleol ac atgyfnerthu effeithiolrwydd y cynlluniau sydd yn bodoli eisoes.

In recent years, progress has been made on boosting literacy and numeracy skills but we must not be complacent. There are still significant numbers of children in Wales who do not achieve the skills level expected for their age. Once they start to fall behind, particularly at an early age, helping them to catch up with their peers becomes a greater challenge. We see from the statistics available that, at secondary school level, the gap between those achieving the standards expected and those who are not, is wider than at earlier stages.

Yn ystod y blynyddoedd diwethaf, gwnaethpwyd cynnydd o ran hybu sgiliau llythrennedd a rhifedd ond rhaid inni beidio â bod yn hunanfodlon. Mae nifer sylweddol o blant o hyd yng Nghymru nad ydynt yn cyrraedd y lefel sgiliau a ddisgwylir am eu hoedran. Unwaith y byddant yn dechrau mynd ar ei hôl hi, yn enwedig pan fônt yn ifanc, daw’r broses o’u helpu i gyrraedd safon y plant eraill yn fwy o her. Gwelwn oddi wrth yr ystadegau sydd ar gael, fod y bwlch rhwng y rhai sydd yn cyflawni’r safonau a ddisgwylir a’r rhai nad ydynt yn eu cyrraedd, yn ehangach ar lefel ysgolion uwchradd nac yn y cyfnodau cynharach.

The strategy must aim to increase skills levels at all stages and I welcome that this has been recognised. We need to ensure that all children acquire decent basic skills from an early age at school. We also need to address the problems faced by those at later stages, whether at secondary school level or in adult life, who have not attained the expected standards. However, we cannot support amendment 1. It is true that we need to tackle illiteracy and innumeracy at all stages in life. However, our emphasis should be on those in the early stages of their education to ensure that they do not fall behind in acquiring those basic skills in the first place. Let us address adult illiteracy and innumeracy as part of an all-embracing strategy rather than as our main emphasis.

Rhaid i’r strategaeth anelu at godi lefelau sgiliau ym mhob cyfnod a chroesawaf y ffaith y cydnabuwyd hynny. Mae angen inni sicrhau bod pob plentyn yn meithrin sgiliau sylfaenol da o oedran cynnar yn yr ysgol. Mae angen hefyd inni fynd i’r afael â’r problemau a wynebir gan rai yn y cyfnodau diweddarach, boed yn yr ysgol uwchradd neu fel oedolion, nad ydynt wedi cyrraedd y safonau disgwyliedig. Fodd bynnag, ni allwn gefnogi gwelliant 1. Mae’n wir bod angen inni fynd i’r afael ag anllythrennedd ac anrhifogrwydd ar bob cyfnod mewn bywyd. Fodd bynnag, dylai ein pwyslais fod ar y rhai yng nghyfnodau cynnar eu haddysg er mwyn sicrhau nad ydynt yn mynd ar ei hôl hi wrth feithrin y sgiliau sylfaenol hynny yn y lle cyntaf. Gadewch inni fynd i’r afael ag anllythrennedd ac anrhifogrwydd fel rhan o strategaeth holl gynhwysol yn hytrach na rhoi ein prif bwyslais arnynt.

The Liberal Democrats support the proposed strategy. We welcome the extra funding, the emphasis on the development of local and national plans, the recognition that improving basic skills must be tied in with our fight against social exclusion and poverty, and the proposed introduction of new qualifications in basic skills for young people and adults.

Mae’r Democratiaid Rhyddfrydol yn cefnogi’r strategaeth arfaethedig. Croesawn yr arian ychwanegol, y pwyslais ar ddatblygu cynlluniau lleol a chenedlaethol, y gydnabyddiaeth bod rhaid cysylltu’r gwaith o wella sgiliau sylfaenol â’n brwydr yn erbyn allgáu cymdeithasol a thlodi, a’r bwriad i gyflwyno cymwysterau newydd mewn sgiliau sylfaenol i bobl ifanc ac oedolion.

John Marek The Deputy Presiding Officer spoken in English p. 87

John Marek Y Dirprwy Lywydd siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 87

Thank you, Peter, for keeping within the time limit.

Diolch yn fawr, Peter am gadw o fewn eich terfyn amser.

Jane Davidson The Minister for Education and Lifelong Learning spoken in English p. 87

Jane Davidson Y Gweinidog dros Addysg a Dysgu Gydol Oes siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 87

I thank all those who contributed to the debate. Jonathan mentioned the great impact this strategy could have. I like that idea. If we were to deliver on the kind of ambitions that we have in this strategy, I believe that the impact would not just be great, it would be huge. It would begin to affect not only basic skills and education training, but also the economy. That is why we need to take dramatic and drastic action in the way that we are proposing today.

Diolchaf i bawb a gyfrannodd at y ddadl. Soniodd Jonathan am yr effaith fawr y gallai’r strategaeth hon ei chael. Yr wyf yn hoffi’r syniad hwnnw. Pe baem yn cyflawni’r math o uchelgais sydd gennym yn y strategaeth hon, credaf y byddai’r effaith nid yn unig yn fawr iawn, ond yn anferth. Byddai’n dechrau effeithio nid yn unig ar sgiliau sylfaenol a hyfforddiant addysg, ond hefyd ar yr economi. Dyna pam bod angen inni gymryd camau dramatig ac eithafol yn y fath fodd ag y cynigiwn heddiw.

Our strategy to tackle the problem is based on partnership and we are not looking at establishing a bureaucratic, dead-weight basic skills agency in Wales to do this for us. We are looking at working with the basic skills agency and building partnerships between learners, parents, teachers, schools, colleges, local authorities, businesses, the wider community and the Assembly to achieve our aims. A number of Members have mentioned issues that are not contained in the strategy. When I worked with officials on the production of this strategy, I wanted to produce a clean and simple document that people could understand and support. I wanted something that we could build upon in order to develop other strategies that complement initiatives of this kind. It does not mention Objective 1, but clearly the new community consortia for education and training in the Objective 1 areas can consider the whole issue of developing initiatives that may be able to access European structural funds.

Mae ein strategaeth i fynd i’r afael â’r broblem yn seiliedig ar bartneriaeth ac nid ydym am sefydlu asiantaeth sgiliau sylfaenol fiwrocrataidd, feichus yng Nghymru i wneud hyn drosom. Anelwn at weithio gyda’r asiantaeth sgiliau sylfaenol ac adeiladu partneriaethau rhwng dysgwyr, rhieni, athrawon, ysgolion, colegau, awdurdodau lleol, busnesau, y gymuned ehangach a’r Cynulliad i gyflawni ein nodau. Soniodd sawl Aelod am y materion sydd heb eu cynnwys yn y strategaeth. Pan oeddwn yn gweithio gyda swyddogion i lunio’r strategaeth hon, yr oeddwn am lunio dogfen groyw a syml y gallai pobl ei deall a’i chefnogi. Yr oeddwn am gael rhywbeth y gallem adeiladu arno er mwyn datblygu strategaethau eraill sydd yn ategu mentrau o’r math hwn. Ni sonia am Amcan 1, ond mae’n amlwg y gall y consortia cymunedol newydd dros addysg a hyfforddiant o fewn ardaloedd Amcan 1 ystyried datblygu mentrau a all fanteisio ar arian o’r cronfeydd strwythurol Ewropeaidd.

It must not be a ‘strategy for a shelf’ as you say. That is why I want to keep it simple and focused so that we can turn to it and see that we have simple targets. We must be effective in delivering them and we must carry the people of Wales with us: parents, children and organisations.

Rhaid iddi beidio â bod yn ‘strategaeth silff’ fel y dywedwch. Dyna pam fy mod am ei chadw yn syml â ffocws iddi fel y gallwn droi ati a gweld bod gennym dargedau syml. Rhaid inni fod yn effeithiol wrth eu cyflawni a rhaid inni sicrhau cefnogaeth pobl Cymru: rhieni, plant a sefydliadau.

Activity will be focused on four key measures. One will be continuous promotion. Lorraine gave us a good example of how we take things for granted daily. We must continually promote the fact that these skills add value to people’s lives. They should not be ashamed if they have been let down by the education system. We need to show that we are creating systems in Wales that will support people to acquire these skills.

Bydd gweithgarwch yn canolbwyntio ar bedwar mesur allweddol. Hyrwyddo parhaus fydd un ohonynt. Rhoes Lorraine enghraifft dda o sut y cymerwn bethau yn ganiataol yn feunyddiol. Rhaid inni hyrwyddo’r ffaith yn barhaus bod y sgiliau hyn yn ychwanegu gwerth at fywydau pobl. Ni ddylent gywilyddio os cawsant eu siomi gan y system addysgol. Mae angen inni ddangos ein bod yn creu systemau yng Nghymru a fydd yn cefnogi pobl wrth feithrin y sgiliau hyn.

We must have action plans at a local and national level—

Rhaid inni gael cynlluniau gweithredu ar lefel leol a chenedlaethol—

Brian Hancock spoken in English p. 88

Brian Hancock siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 88

I remind you that on 24 October 2000 we passed a motion which was, if you like, my private member’s Bill on careers education in schools. It is high time for the draft regulations to come through. This is also an opportunity to put skills, economic development and CCETs together to help the people of Wales receive education and future employment. When will you introduce the regulations?

Fe’ch atgoffaf ar 24 Hydref 2000 inni basio cynnig, sef fy Mesur preifat Aelod, os mynnwch, ar addysg gyrfaoedd mewn ysgolion. Mae’n hen bryd i’r rheoliadau drafft gael eu cyflwyno. Mae hwn hefyd yn gyfle i rhoi sgiliau, datblygu economaidd a chonsortia cymunedol dros addysg a hyfforddiant at ei gilydd i helpu pobl Cymru i gael addysg a chyflogaeth yn y dyfodol. Pryd y byddwch yn cyflwyno’r rheoliadau?

Jane Davidson spoken in English p. 88

Jane Davidson siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 88

I asked the department last week when the regulations would be introduced. I hope I can bring you news shortly and I will write to you about that. You are right that the whole dimension about careers, advice and guidance and ensuring that these are available to the widest possible community is also crucial to this agenda.

Gofynnais i’r adran yr wythnos diwethaf pryd y byddai’r rheoliadau yn cael eu cyflwyno. Gobeithiaf y gallaf roi newyddion ichi cyn bo hir ac ysgrifennaf atoch ynglŷn â hynny. Yr ydych yn llygad eich lle i nodi bod yr holl ddimensiwn am yrfaoedd, cyngor ac arweiniad a sicrhau bod y rhain ar gael i’r gymuned ehangaf bosibl hefyd yn holl bwysig i’r agenda hon.

We will have action plans. We have the new literacy and numeracy qualifications to which Peter referred. We must tackle the issue of the economically inactive and I welcome Jonathan’s points about the links between truancy and prison. We have a new skills initiative in place that was announced on 14 February by the Westminster Government―prisons, of course, are a Home Office service―working with DfEE and the Assembly. Our extending entitlement initiative, which has already been considered, and is supported by all parties in the Assembly, also focuses on those who are not in education, employment and training. We have GEST money in place for disaffection. So we are not only considering what is in this document, but also a whole range of ways that we can bring these agendas together in this important area.

Bydd gennym gynlluniau gweithredu. Mae gennym y cymwysterau llythrennedd a rhifedd newydd y cyfeiriodd Peter atynt. Rhaid inni fynd i’r afael â phroblem y rhai sydd yn economaidd-anweithredol a chroesawaf bwyntiau Jonathan am y cysylltiadau rhwng triwantiaeth a’r carchar. Mae gennym fenter sgiliau newydd ar waith a gyhoeddwyd ar 14 Chwefror gan Lywodraeth San Steffan—mae carchardai, wrth gwrs, yn un o wasanaethau’r Swyddfa Gartref—yn gweithio gyda’r Adran Addysg a Chyflogaeth a’r Cynulliad. Mae ein menter ymestyn hawliau, a ystyriwyd eisoes, ac a gefnogir gan bob plaid yn y Cynulliad, yn canolbwyntio hefyd ar y rhai nad ydynt mewn addysg, cyflogaeth a hyfforddiant. Mae gennym arian GEST ar waith ar gyfer ymddieithrio. Felly yr ydym nid yn unig yn ystyried yr hyn sydd yn y ddogfen, ond hefyd ystod eang o ffyrdd y gallwn ddod â’r agendâu hyn at ei gilydd yn y maes pwysig hwn.

I join Lorraine in welcoming Gareth Jones back to the Chamber. I was disappointed, Gareth, that you were not here to question me as Minister for Education and Lifelong Learning. I am pleased to have you back today, therefore. The £27.3 million is new money, and was in the 2000 budget planning round. It will target new and innovative programmes in the areas of most need. You said that we were not looking for revolutionary moves. I am not sure that we need revolutionary initiatives, but we need to create a revolution in terms of this agenda. We need a revolution and we should all be giving our support to ensure that people feel capable of taking up these new challenges, and do not feel that the fact that they could not read or write previously cannot be addressed. We need to offer new opportunities and that is when CCETs will be most important.

Ymunaf â Lorraine wrth groesawu Gareth Jones yn ôl i’r Siambr. Yr oeddwn yn siomedig, Gareth, nad oeddech yma i’m holi fel y Gweinidog dros Addysg a Dysgu Gydol Oes. Yr wyf yn falch o’ch gweld yn ôl heddiw, felly. Arian newydd yw’r £27.3 miliwn, ac fe’i cynhwyswyd yng nghylch cynllunio cyllideb 2000. Bydd yn targedu rhaglenni newydd a dyfeisgar yn y meysydd lle bo’r angen mwyaf. Dywedasoch nad oeddem yn anelu at gamau chwyldroadol. Nid wyf yn siŵr bod angen mentrau chwyldroadol arnom, ond mae angen inni greu chwyldro o ran yr agenda hon. Mae angen chwyldro a dylem oll roi ein cefnogaeth i sicrhau bod pobl yn teimlo y gallant wynebu’r sialensau newydd hyn, ac na theimlant na ellir mynd i’r afael â’r ffaith na allent ddarllen neu ysgrifennu o’r blaen. Mae angen inni gynnig cyfleoedd newydd a dyna pryd y bydd y consortia cymunedol dros addysg a hyfforddiant yn fwyaf pwysig.

Lorraine mentioned Sure Start. I reject the notion that this is about poor parenting. The Basic Skills Agency’s experience in its surveys has been that most parents want to help. It is not about poor parenting, it is about parents not having the tools. We want to take that forward. Information technology was also mentioned. IT is a basic skill for the future and covers the whole education and training system. There will be a further debate on the impact of the ICT strategy shortly. I express concern at the way that you, Rhodri, handled the idea that I was explicitly rejecting and seeking to divorce education and training from the social inclusion agenda. I was disappointed for two reasons. First, there are many good proposals in the social inclusion report prepared by our colleagues in Westminster. However, it was a report for Westminster, which included issues on benefits, as you accurately described, but it was not a report for us in Wales. We would want to build on any of the useful lessons that come out of that report and we will consider it when the social inclusion agenda is debated shortly. I am also disappointed now that I understand what you meant by statutory market inequalities. We applied the basic skills test and could not find anybody in the Assembly who understood your amendment. That is because we do not believe in selection. Trying to use the red herring of selection in the basic skills debate was extraordinary. We believe in basic skills education that encompasses everybody who needs it in Wales.

Soniodd Lorraine am Gychwyn Cadarn. Gwrthodaf y syniad bod hyn yn ymwneud â magu gwael. Yn ôl profiad yr Asiantaeth Sgiliau Sylfaenol yn ei harolygon, yr oedd y rhan fwyaf o rieni am helpu. Nid yw’n ymwneud â magu gwael, mae’n ymwneud â’r ffaith nad oes gan rieni yr arfau. Yr ydym am fynd â hynny yn ei flaen. Soniwyd hefyd am dechnoleg gwybodaeth. Mae TG yn sgil sylfaenol ar gyfer y dyfodol ac yn cwmpasu’r holl system addysg a hyfforddiant. Bydd dadl bellach ar effaith y strategaeth TGCh cyn bo hir. Mynegaf bryder am y ffordd ichi, Rhodri, ymdrin â’r syniad fy mod yn gwahardd ac yn ceisio ysgaru addysg a hyfforddiant oddi wrth yr agenda cynhwysiant cymdeithasol. Yr oeddwn yn siomedig am ddau reswm. Yn gyntaf, mae llawer o gynigion da yn yr adroddiad ar gynhwysiant cymdeithasol a baratowyd gan ein cyd-Aelodau yn San Steffan. Fodd bynnag, adroddiad ar gyfer San Steffan ydoedd, gan gynnwys materion ar fudd-daliadau, fel y disgrifiwyd yn gywir gennych, ond nid oedd yn adroddiad inni yng Nghymru. Byddem am adeiladu ar unrhyw wersi defnyddiol a ddaw o’r adroddiad hwnnw ac fe’i hystyriwn pan gynhelir dadl ar yr agenda cynhwysiant cymdeithasol cyn bo hir. Yr wyf yn siomedig hefyd ar ôl imi ddeall yr hyn yr oeddech yn ei olygu wrth anghydraddoldebau statudol y farchnad. Defnyddiasom y prawf sgiliau sylfaenol ac ni allem ddod o hyd i unrhyw un yn y Cynulliad a oedd yn deall eich gwelliant. Y rheswm am hynny yw na chredwn mewn dethol. Yr oedd ceisio mynd ar ôl yr ysgyfarnog honno yn y ddadl ar sgiliau sylfaenol yn anhygoel. Credwn mewn addysg sgiliau sylfaenol sydd yn cynnwys pawb sydd ei hangen yng Nghymru.

John Marek The Deputy Presiding Officer spoken in English p. 90

John Marek Y Dirprwy Lywydd siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 90

I remind the Minister that you have had 16 minutes for your opening and closing speeches. We will run late and you will be blamed, not the Chair.

Atgoffaf y Gweinidog ichi gael 16 munud ar gyfer eich araith agoriadol a’ch araith i gloi. Byddwn yn rhedeg yn hwyr a chi a gaiff y bai, nid y Cadeirydd.

Rhodri Glyn Thomas spoken in English p. 90

Rhodri Glyn Thomas siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 90

I wonder whether Jane Davidson is a member of the same party as Tony Blair? Do you not believe in selection? Does the Labour Party not believe in selection?

Tybed a yw Jane Davidson yn aelod o’r un blaid â Tony Blair? Oni chredwch mewn dethol? Oni chred y Blaid Lafur mewn dethol?

Jane Davidson spoken in English p. 90

Jane Davidson siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 90

I have made it absolutely clear that the Labour Party in Wales is strongly in favour of a comprehensive system. We do not believe in selection. That has been said on a number of occasions in this Chamber. On something as important as basic skills, we should take electioneering out of the Chamber and get on with the job in Wales. This is a good start for an important strategy in Wales. I hope that Members continue to endorse the principles as they have done in today’s debate. I ask you to support the motion, including Jocelyn’s amendment 2 on social inclusion, and to reject the other amendments.

Nodais yn gwbl glir bod y Blaid Lafur yng Nghymru yn gryf o blaid system gyfun. Ni chredwn mewn dethol. Dywedwyd hynny ar sawl achlysur yn y Siambr hon. O ran rhywbeth mor bwysig â sgiliau sylfaenol, dylem ymwrthod ag ymgyrchu etholiadol yn y Siambr a bwrw iddi dros Gymru. Mae hwn yn ddechrau da ar gyfer strategaeth bwysig yng Nghymru. Gobeithiaf y bydd yr Aelodau’n parhau i gymeradwyo’r egwyddorion fel y gwnaethant yn y ddadl heddiw. Gofynnaf ichi gefnogi’r cynnig, gan gynnwys gwelliant 2 Jocelyn ar gynhwysiant cymdeithasol, a gwrthod y gwelliannau eraill.

John Marek The Deputy Presiding Officer spoken in English p. 90

John Marek Y Dirprwy Lywydd siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 90

Before we vote, the motion has sub paragraphs, (a), (b), (c), (d) and (e). On some printouts it was (a), (a), (b), (c) and (d). That is not correct. It is now correct on the Chamberweb screens.

Cyn inni bleidleisio, mae i’r cynnig is-baragraffau, (a), (b), (c), (d) a (e). Ar rai allbrintiau, cafwyd (a), (a), (b), (c), a (d). Nid yw hynny’n wir. Mae bellach yn gywir ar sgriniau Gwe’r Siambr.

Gwelliant 1 Jonathan Morgan t. 91

Amendment 1 Jonathan Morgan p. 91

GwrthodwydRejected O blaidFor 5 YmatalAbstain 10 Yn erbynAgainst 28

Gwrthodwyd y gwelliant.

Amendment rejected

Sut y pleidleisiodd yr AelodauHow Members voted
O blaidFor (5)
  • Alun Cairns
  • William Graham
  • David Melding
  • Jonathan Morgan
  • Rod Richards
YmatalAbstain (10)
  • Cynog Dafis
  • Geraint Davies
  • Jocelyn Davies
  • Brian Hancock
  • Gareth Jones
  • Helen Mary Jones
  • Janet Ryder
  • Owen John Thomas
  • Rhodri Glyn Thomas
  • Phil Williams
Yn erbynAgainst (28)
  • Lorraine Barrett
  • Mick Bates
  • Peter Black
  • Rosemary Butler
  • Christine Chapman
  • Jane Davidson
  • Andrew Davies
  • Janet Davies
  • Sue Essex
  • Delyth Evans
  • Val Feld
  • Michael German
  • Brian Gibbons
  • John Griffiths
  • Christine Gwyther
  • Alison Halford
  • Jane Hutt
  • Ann Jones
  • Carwyn Jones
  • Peter Law
  • Huw Lewis
  • Tom Middlehurst
  • Rhodri Morgan
  • Lynne Neagle
  • Jenny Randerson
  • Karen Sinclair
  • Gwenda Thomas
  • Kirsty Williams

Gwelliant 2 Gareth Jones t. 91

Amendment 2 Gareth Jones p. 91

DerbyniwydAdopted O blaidFor 43 YmatalAbstain 0 Yn erbynAgainst 0

Derbyniwyd y gwelliant.

Amendment adopted.

Sut y pleidleisiodd yr AelodauHow Members voted
O blaidFor (43)
  • Lorraine Barrett
  • Mick Bates
  • Peter Black
  • Rosemary Butler
  • Alun Cairns
  • Christine Chapman
  • Cynog Dafis
  • Jane Davidson
  • Andrew Davies
  • Geraint Davies
  • Janet Davies
  • Jocelyn Davies
  • Sue Essex
  • Delyth Evans
  • Val Feld
  • Michael German
  • Brian Gibbons
  • William Graham
  • John Griffiths
  • Christine Gwyther
  • Alison Halford
  • Brian Hancock
  • Jane Hutt
  • Ann Jones
  • Carwyn Jones
  • Gareth Jones
  • Helen Mary Jones
  • Peter Law
  • Huw Lewis
  • David Melding
  • Tom Middlehurst
  • Jonathan Morgan
  • Rhodri Morgan
  • Lynne Neagle
  • Jenny Randerson
  • Rod Richards
  • Janet Ryder
  • Karen Sinclair
  • Gwenda Thomas
  • Owen John Thomas
  • Rhodri Glyn Thomas
  • Kirsty Williams
  • Phil Williams

Gwelliant 3 Gareth Jones t. 92

Amendment 3 Gareth Jones p. 92

GwrthodwydRejected O blaidFor 11 YmatalAbstain 0 Yn erbynAgainst 32

Gwrthodwyd y gwelliant.

Amendment rejected.

Sut y pleidleisiodd yr AelodauHow Members voted
O blaidFor (11)
  • Cynog Dafis
  • Geraint Davies
  • Janet Davies
  • Jocelyn Davies
  • Brian Hancock
  • Gareth Jones
  • Helen Mary Jones
  • Janet Ryder
  • Owen John Thomas
  • Rhodri Glyn Thomas
  • Phil Williams
Yn erbynAgainst (32)
  • Lorraine Barrett
  • Mick Bates
  • Peter Black
  • Rosemary Butler
  • Alun Cairns
  • Christine Chapman
  • Jane Davidson
  • Andrew Davies
  • Sue Essex
  • Delyth Evans
  • Val Feld
  • Michael German
  • Brian Gibbons
  • William Graham
  • John Griffiths
  • Christine Gwyther
  • Alison Halford
  • Jane Hutt
  • Ann Jones
  • Carwyn Jones
  • Peter Law
  • Huw Lewis
  • David Melding
  • Tom Middlehurst
  • Jonathan Morgan
  • Rhodri Morgan
  • Lynne Neagle
  • Jenny Randerson
  • Rod Richards
  • Karen Sinclair
  • Gwenda Thomas
  • Kirsty Williams

Gwelliant 4 Gareth Jones t. 93

Amendment 4 Gareth Jones p. 93

GwrthodwydRejected O blaidFor 11 YmatalAbstain 0 Yn erbynAgainst 32

Gwrthodwyd y gwelliant.

Amendment rejected.

Sut y pleidleisiodd yr AelodauHow Members voted
O blaidFor (11)
  • Cynog Dafis
  • Geraint Davies
  • Janet Davies
  • Jocelyn Davies
  • Brian Hancock
  • Gareth Jones
  • Helen Mary Jones
  • Janet Ryder
  • Owen John Thomas
  • Rhodri Glyn Thomas
  • Phil Williams
Yn erbynAgainst (32)
  • Lorraine Barrett
  • Mick Bates
  • Peter Black
  • Rosemary Butler
  • Alun Cairns
  • Christine Chapman
  • Jane Davidson
  • Andrew Davies
  • Sue Essex
  • Delyth Evans
  • Val Feld
  • Michael German
  • Brian Gibbons
  • William Graham
  • John Griffiths
  • Christine Gwyther
  • Alison Halford
  • Jane Hutt
  • Ann Jones
  • Carwyn Jones
  • Peter Law
  • Huw Lewis
  • David Melding
  • Tom Middlehurst
  • Jonathan Morgan
  • Rhodri Morgan
  • Lynne Neagle
  • Jenny Randerson
  • Rod Richards
  • Karen Sinclair
  • Gwenda Thomas
  • Kirsty Williams

DerbyniwydAdopted O blaidFor 42 YmatalAbstain 0 Yn erbynAgainst 0

Derbyniwyd y cynnig wedi’i ddiwygio.

Amended motion adopted.

Sut y pleidleisiodd yr AelodauHow Members voted
O blaidFor (42)
  • Lorraine Barrett
  • Mick Bates
  • Peter Black
  • Rosemary Butler
  • Alun Cairns
  • Christine Chapman
  • Cynog Dafis
  • Jane Davidson
  • Andrew Davies
  • Geraint Davies
  • Janet Davies
  • Jocelyn Davies
  • Sue Essex
  • Delyth Evans
  • Val Feld
  • Michael German
  • William Graham
  • John Griffiths
  • Christine Gwyther
  • Alison Halford
  • Brian Hancock
  • Jane Hutt
  • Ann Jones
  • Carwyn Jones
  • Gareth Jones
  • Helen Mary Jones
  • Peter Law
  • Huw Lewis
  • David Melding
  • Tom Middlehurst
  • Jonathan Morgan
  • Rhodri Morgan
  • Lynne Neagle
  • Jenny Randerson
  • Rod Richards
  • Janet Ryder
  • Karen Sinclair
  • Gwenda Thomas
  • Owen John Thomas
  • Rhodri Glyn Thomas
  • Kirsty Williams
  • Phil Williams

Cymeradwyo Adroddiad Grant Arbennig Diogelwch Ffyrdd

Approval of the Road Safety Special Grant Report

Sue Essex The Minister for Environment spoken in English p. 95

Sue Essex Y Gweinidog dros yr Amgylchedd siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 95

I propose that

Cynigiaf fod

Sue Essex The Minister for Environment (continued) spoken in English p. 95

Sue Essex Y Gweinidog dros yr Amgylchedd (parhad) siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 95

This motion invites Members to approve payments to local authorities in the next financial year to support local road safety projects from a total budget of over £3 million. These payments to local authorities are classed as a special grant under the Local Government Finance Act 1988 and that is why I bring this before you today.

Mae’r cynnig hwn yn gwahodd Aelodau i gymeradwyo taliadau i awdurdodau lleol yn y flwyddyn ariannol nesaf i gynnal prosiectau diogelwch ffyrdd lleol o gyfanswm cyllideb o dros £3 miliwn. Dosberthir y taliadau hyn i awdurdodau lleol fel grant arbennig o dan Ddeddf Cyllid Llywodraeth Leol 1988 a dyna pam y cyflwynaf hyn ichi heddiw.

I introduced this grant to local authorities for the first time in the current financial year using additional financial resources made available to the Assembly by the Chancellor. The grant and the resources have been warmly welcomed by local authorities and road safety organisations and are viewed as an important boost to road safety projects and schemes throughout Wales. I was anxious for the grant to be allocated to allow local authorities to respond to the safety needs of their own communities. Some local authorities have been able to respond to long standing road safety problems using traffic management or engineering solutions. For others, the grant and resources have provided the opportunity to enhance their road safety education and publicity. We require all projects funded by this grant to be monitored and evaluated and, importantly, the expenditure must be additional to that already planned on road safety. I look forward to receiving the council’s report by June setting out the improvements to road safety within their areas as a result of the grant.

Cyflwynais y grant hwn i awdurdodau lleol am y tro cyntaf yn y flwyddyn ariannol gyfredol gan ddefnyddio adnoddau ariannol ychwanegol a ryddhawyd i’r Cynulliad gan y Canghellor. Croesawyd y grant a’r adnoddau yn gynnes gan awdurdodau lleol a sefydliadau diogelwch ffyrdd ac ystyrir eu bod yn hwb pwysig i brosiectau a chynlluniau diogelwch ffyrdd ledled Cymru. Yr oeddwn yn awyddus i’r grant gael ei ddyrannu i ganiatáu i awdurdodau lleol ymateb i anghenion diogelwch eu cymunedau eu hunain. Llwyddodd rhai awdurdodau lleol i ymateb i broblemau diogelwch ffyrdd hir-sefydledig gan ddefnyddio atebion rheoli traffig neu beirianneg. I eraill, darparodd y grant a’r adnoddau gyfle i wella eu haddysg a’u cyhoeddusrwydd diogelwch ffyrdd. Mae’n ofynnol gennym i bob prosiect a ariennir gan y grant hwn gael eu monitro a’u gwerthuso ac, yn bwysicach, rhaid i’r gwariant fod yn ychwanegol at y gwariant a gynlluniwyd eisoes ar ddiogelwch ffyrdd. Edrychaf ymlaen at dderbyn adroddiad y cyngor erbyn Mehefin yn nodi’r gwelliannau i ddiogelwch ffyrdd o fewn eu hardaloedd o ganlyniad i’r grant.

To date, some interesting projects have been introduced. If we look at education, Powys County Council, for example, took a play on a tour of local secondary schools, launched a pilot scheme for after-school clubs and undertook engineering work on 14 sites within the authority that have a bad accident record; Ceredigion County Council has purchased a mobile speed camera and the City and County of Swansea has conducted a survey of school patrol crossing points. You can see the variety of projects that local authorities have undertaken with this money.

Hyd yn hyn, cyflwynwyd rhai prosiectau diddorol. O ystyried addysg, aeth Cyngor Sir Powys, er enghraifft, â drama ar daith o amgylch ysgolion uwchradd lleol, lansiodd gynllun peilot ar gyfer clybiau ar ôl ysgol a chynhaliodd waith peirianneg ar 14 o safleoedd o fewn yr awdurdod sydd â chofnod damweiniau gwael; mae Cyngor Sir Ceredigion wedi prynu camera cyflymder symudol ac mae Dinas a Sir Abertawe wedi cynnal arolwg o bwyntiau croesi patrôl ysgol. Fe welwch yr amrywiaeth o brosiectau a gynhaliwyd gan awdurdodau lleol gyda’r arian hwn.

I would like to look at this grant in its wider context and make some points on road safety, which I consider to be one of my priorities. I know from the volume of letters that I receive that Members and their constituents take the same view. I have set up a working group on road safety to develop an implementation programme for road safety in Wales. The group includes representatives of local government, the Royal Society for the Prevention of Accidents, health interests, the police, Friends of the Earth, Sustrans and a community design consultant. It is developing a draft strategy that I will present to the Environment, Planning and Transport Committee on 4 April, prior to a full consultation exercise. I will bring the strategy to Plenary before the summer recess.

Hoffwn ystyried y grant hwn yn ei gyd-destun ehangach a chyflwyno rhai pwyntiau ar ddiogelwch ffyrdd, yr ystyriaf fel un o’m blaenoriaethau. Gwn o faint o lythyrau a dderbyniaf fod Aelodau a’u hetholwyr o’r un farn. Sefydlais weithgor ar ddiogelwch ffyrdd i ddatblygu rhaglen weithredu ar gyfer diogelwch ffyrdd yng Nghymru. Mae’r grŵp yn cynnwys cynrychiolwyr o lywodraeth leol, y Gymdeithas Frenhinol er Atal Damweiniau, buddiannau iechyd, yr heddlu, Cyfeillion y Ddaear, Sustrans ac ymgynghorydd dylunio cymunedol. Mae wrthi’n datblygu strategaeth ddrafft y byddaf yn ei chyflwyno i Bwyllgor yr Amgylchedd, Cynllunio a Thrafnidiaeth ar 4 Ebrill, cyn cynnal ymarfer ymgynghori llawn. Cyflwynaf y strategaeth i’r Cyfarfod Llawn cyn toriad yr haf.

It is vital that we are proactive in reducing road traffic casualties in Wales, and the trauma of road traffic accidents. The Great Britain road safety strategy, launched last year, set challenging targets for the next 10 years, including a 40 per cent reduction in people killed or seriously injured in road accidents, and a 50 per cent reduction in child deaths. Every child killed is a traumatic disaster for the families. The strategy also set a target of a 10 per cent reduction in slight casualties.

Mae’n hanfodol ein bod yn rhagweithiol wrth leihau damweiniau traffig ar y ffyrdd yng Nghymru, a’r trawma a achosir gan y damweiniau hyn. Gosododd strategaeth diogelwch ffyrdd Prydain Fawr, a lansiwyd y llynedd, dargedau heriol ar gyfer y 10 mlynedd nesaf, gan gynnwys gostyngiad o 40 y cant yn y bobl a leddir neu a anefir yn ddifrifol mewn damweiniau ar y ffyrdd, a gostyngiad o 50 y cant yn nifer y plant a leddir. Mae pob plentyn a leddir yn drychineb drawmatig i’r teuluoedd. Hefyd, gosododd y strategaeth darged o ostyngiad o 10 y cant mewn mân anafiadau.

I stress that local authorities have a key part to play in achieving the national casualty reduction targets, which have been addressed in safety strategies in councils’ local transport plans.

Pwysleisiaf fod gan awdurdodau lleol ran allweddol i’w chwarae wrth gyflawni’r targedau cenedlaethol ar gyfer gostwng anafiadau, yr ymdriniwyd â hwy eisoes mewn strategaethau diogelwch o fewn cynlluniau trafnidiaeth leol cynghorau.

The grant is about improving structures on the ground, but also, importantly, about the need to change attitudes. Publicity campaigns can influence attitudes and behaviour and create a climate where people understand and accept road safety measures. Programmes to educate children can be especially valuable, looking at awareness and safety skills. We are already seeing innovative work by local government. The grant gives local authorities the flexibility to put together the right package to enhance safety in their communities, to save lives and stop suffering.

Mae’r grant yn ymwneud â gwella strwythurau ar lawr gwlad, ond hefyd, yn bwysicach, yr angen i newid agweddau. Gall ymgyrchoedd cyhoeddusrwydd ddylanwadu ar agweddau ac ymddygiad a chreu hinsawdd lle mae pobl yn deall ac yn derbyn mesurau diogelwch ffyrdd. Gall rhaglenni i addysgu plant fod yn arbennig o werthfawr, gan edrych ar ymwybyddiaeth a sgiliau diogelwch. Yr ydym eisoes yn gweld gwaith arloesol gan lywodraeth leol. Rhydd y grant hyblygrwydd i awdurdodau lleol gynhyrchu’r pecyn cywir i wella diogelwch yn eu cymunedau, i achub bywydau ac i roi terfyn ar ddioddefaint.

In deciding how to allocate this budget, I have consulted with the Welsh Local Government Association. With its agreement I propose that the budget of over £3 million be allocated by a formula that is based 50 per cent on population and 50 per cent on the cost of non-pedestrian casualties on non-trunk roads. I also propose that each authority be allocated a minimum of 2.5 per cent of the total grant payable. The amount that each authority would be allocated under this mechanism is set out in annex A of the special grant report. These are significant sums to support our road safety targets. With the money that we will put forward over the next couple of years—this year in particular—I hope that everybody will support the motion.

Wrth benderfynu sut i ddyrannu’r gyllideb hon, ymgynghorais â Chymdeithas Llywodraeth Leol Cymru. Gyda’i chytundeb cynigiaf y dylid dyrannu’r gyllideb o dros £3 miliwn yn ôl fformwla sydd yn seiliedig 50 y cant ar boblogaeth a 50 y cant ar gost anafiadau nad ydynt i gerddwyr ar ffyrdd nad ydynt yn gefnffyrdd. Cynigiaf hefyd y dylid dyrannu isafswm o 2.5 y cant o gyfanswm y grant sydd yn daladwy i bob awdurdod. Nodir y swm a ddyrennid i bob awdurdod o dan y mecanwaith hwn yn atodiad A i’r adroddiad grant arbennig. Maent yn symiau sylweddol i gyflawni ein targedau diogelwch ffyrdd. Gyda’r arian y cyflwynwn dros yr ychydig flynyddoedd nesaf—eleni yn benodol—gobeithiaf y bydd pawb yn cefnogi’r cynnig.

Helen Mary Jones spoken in English p. 98

Helen Mary Jones siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 98

Briefly—time is pressing—I offer Plaid Cymru—The Party of Wales’s full support to this special grant report. The reduction in deaths and serious injuries resulting from road accidents in recent years is obviously welcome. However, as the Minister said, deaths and serious injuries from road accidents remain a major scourge in our communities. We welcome the investment to promote a further downward trend and we support the priority the Minister gives to this issue.

Yn gryno—mae ein hamser yn brin—cynigiaf gefnogaeth lawn Plaid Cymru—The Party of Wales i’r adroddiad grant arbennig hwn. Yn amlwg, croesewir y gostyngiad mewn marwolaethau ac anafiadau difrifol yn sgîl damweiniau ffyrdd yn ystod y blynyddoedd diwethaf. Fodd bynnag, fel y dywedodd y Gweinidog, erys marwolaethau ac anafiadau difrifol yn sgîl damweiniau ffyrdd yn broblem fawr yn ein cymunedau. Croesawn y buddsoddiad i hyrwyddo tuedd bellach ar i lawr a chefnogwn y flaenoriaeth a rydd y Gweinidog i’r mater hwn.

There are many excellent local initiatives. This funding will enable those to be developed. In the medium term, we hope that we can ensure that those local road safety initiatives, like safer routes to schools, are fully integrated in the national public transport strategy, which we hope will come into being after the Environment, Planning and Transport Committee’s inquiry is complete. One of the most effective ways to promote road safety is to reduce car use.

Ceir llawer o fentrau lleol ardderchog. Bydd yr arian hwn yn galluogi iddynt gael eu datblygu. Yn y tymor canolig, gobeithiwn y gallwn sicrhau y caiff y mentrau diogelwch ffyrdd lleol hynny, megis llwybrau mwy diogel i’r ysgol, eu hintegreiddio’n llawn i’r strategaeth trafnidiaeth gyhoeddus genedlaethol, a gynhyrchir, gobeithio, ar ôl i ymchwiliad Pwyllgor yr Amgylchedd, Cynllunio a Thrafnidiaeth gael ei gwblhau. Un o’r ffyrdd mwyaf effeithiol i hyrwyddo diogelwch ffyrdd yw lleihau’r defnydd o geir.

I commend this special grant report to the National Assembly.

Cymeradwyaf yr adroddiad grant arbennig hwn i’r Cynulliad Cenedlaethol.

William Graham spoken in English p. 98

William Graham siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 98

We greatly welcome the Minister’s initiative but I will make two points. The first point relates to child accidents. Members will be aware that this is a major cause of premature death. We must do better on this and we ask for greater help in educating children in schools about road safety.

Croesawn fenter y Gweinidog yn fawr ond hoffwn wneud dau bwynt. Mae’r pwynt cyntaf yn ymwneud â damweiniau yn cynnwys plant. Bydd yr Aelodau yn ymwybodol mai dyma un o brif achosion marwolaeth cynamserol. Rhaid inni wneud yn well ar hyn a gofynnwn am fwy o gymorth wrth addysgu plant mewn ysgolion am ddiogelwch ffyrdd.

Secondly, I ask for greater weighting in respect of assistance for rural communities. Looking at the published statistics, it is alarming to note that areas where there are longer stretches of road, but a paucity of population, have some of the highest numbers of people killed and seriously injured on our roads every year. In Powys, 160 people are killed or seriously injured on roads every year, compared to 24 in Swansea. The figures for Carmarthenshire and Monmouthshire are 172 and 108 respectively. That is a callous and unnecessary waste of life. The Welsh Conservatives greatly welcome the initiative and support the measure.

Yn ail, gofynnaf a ellid rhoi mwy o bwyslais ar gymorth i gymunedau gwledig. O edrych ar yr ystadegau cyhoeddedig, mae’n bryderus nodi mai yn yr ardaloedd lle ceir rhannau hwy o ffyrdd, ond prinder poblogaeth, y ceir rhai o’r niferoedd uchaf o bobl a leddir ac a anefir yn ddifrifol ar ein ffyrdd bob blwyddyn. Ym Mhowys, lleddir neu anefir 160 o bobl yn ddifrifol ar y ffyrdd bob blwyddyn, o’i gymharu â 24 yn Abertawe. Y ffigurau ar gyfer Sir Gaerfyrddin a Sir Fynwy yw 172 a 108 yn y drefn honno. Mae hynny’n wastraff didrugaredd a diangen o fywyd. Mae Ceidwadwyr Cymru yn croesawu’r fenter yn fawr ac yn cefnogi’r mesur.

Mick Bates spoken in English p. 99

Mick Bates siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 99

The Liberal Democrats support all these measures. I endorse William’s statement about rural areas. Is it possible, through the Minister’s group, to ensure that there is a co-ordinated approach to road safety, particularly in smaller communities? Often in those communities, the road is painted and then it is left and there is not a focus on the remaining road safety issues. The efforts of the police and the structural engineers, who can design the streets better and so on, should be co-ordinated. Other than that, this is commendable.

Mae’r Democratiaid Rhyddfrydol yn cefnogi’r holl fesurau hyn. Cymeradwyaf ddatganiad William ar ardaloedd gwledig. A yw’n bosibl, drwy grŵp y Gweinidog, i sicrhau y ceir ymagwedd gydlynol tuag at ddiogelwch ffyrdd, yn arbennig mewn cymunedau llai? Yn aml yn y cymunedau hynny, caiff y ffordd ei phaentio ac yna’i gadael ac ni cheir ffocws ar y materion diogelwch ffyrdd sydd yn weddill. Dylid cydlynu ymdrechion yr heddlu a’r peirianwyr strwythurol, a all ddylunio’r strydoedd yn well ac ati. Ar wahân i hynny, dylid cymeradwyo hyn.

Sue Essex The Minister for Environment spoken in English p. 99

Sue Essex Y Gweinidog dros yr Amgylchedd siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 99

I am glad that Members are in agreement. We can all unite on this issue to reduce the number of terrible road accidents. I will respond to a few points made by Members. William mentioned education. As I mentioned, many authorities are targeting education, with innovative schemes to get the message across to children. I want to give local authorities the freedom to consider how they can best use this grant for their communities. When we receive the reports in June, I can show Members the full spectrum of actions being taken.

Yr wyf yn falch fod yr Aelodau yn cytuno. Gallwn fod yn unfrydol ar y mater hwn er mwyn lleihau nifer y damweiniau ofnadwy ar y ffyrdd. Ymatebaf i rai pwyntiau a wnaethpwyd gan yr Aelodau. Crybwyllodd William addysg. Fel y crybwyllais, mae llawer o awdurdodau yn targedu addysg, gyda chynlluniau arloesol i gyfleu’r neges i blant. Hoffwn roi’r rhyddid i awdurdodau lleol ystyried y ffordd orau iddynt ddefnyddio’r grant hwn er budd eu cymunedau. Pan dderbyniwn yr adroddiadau ym Mehefin, gallaf ddangos sbectrwm llawn y camau gweithredu sydd ar waith i’r Aelodau.

William and Mick mentioned the rural aspect. This formula works on non-trunk roads. There is also a sum of money for considering the action we need to take on trunk roads, which are a problem in rural areas.

Crybwyllodd William a Mick yr agwedd wledig. Mae’r fformwla hon yn llwyddiannus ar ffyrdd nad ydynt yn gefnffyrdd. Mae swm o arian ar gael hefyd ar gyfer ystyried y camau gweithredu sydd angen inni eu cymryd ar gefnffyrdd, sydd yn broblem mewn ardaloedd gwledig.

The road safety strategy board’s report, which will come to Committee in April, should address co-ordination. Community design consultants are represented on the board, as they have done much work in examining rural communities where trunk roads cut through small hamlets or villages. It is important that the people living alongside those roads are not forgotten. Over the last few years, the number of accidents has been reduced. We must target this issue and continue to provide money and education to change public attitudes. Every life that we save is real value for money.

Dylai adroddiad bwrdd y strategaeth diogelwch ffyrdd, a gyflwynir i’r Pwyllgor fis Ebrill, ymdrin â chydlynu. Cynrychiolir ymgynghorwyr dylunio cymunedol ar y bwrdd, gan mai hwy sydd wedi gwneud llawer o’r gwaith wrth archwilio cymunedau lleol lle mae cefnffyrdd yn torri drwy bentrefannau neu bentrefi bach. Mae’n bwysig peidio ag anghofio’r bobl sydd yn byw wrth ymyl y ffyrdd hyn. Dros y blynyddoedd diwethaf, gostyngwyd nifer y damweiniau. Rhaid inni dargedu’r mater hwn a pharhau i ddarparu arian ac addysg i newid agweddau’r cyhoedd. Mae pob bywyd a achubwn yn werth gwirioneddol am arian.

John Marek The Deputy Presiding Officer spoken in English p. 100

John Marek Y Dirprwy Lywydd siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 100

I am grateful to the Assembly for being expeditious on this important matter.

Yr wyf yn ddiolchgar i’r Cynulliad am fod mor gyflym wrth drafod y mater pwysig hwn.

Cynnig Sue Essex t. 100

Motion Sue Essex p. 100

DerbyniwydAdopted O blaidFor 38 YmatalAbstain 0 Yn erbynAgainst 0

Derbyniwyd y cynnig.

Motion adopted.

Sut y pleidleisiodd yr AelodauHow Members voted
O blaidFor (38)
  • Lorraine Barrett
  • Mick Bates
  • Peter Black
  • Rosemary Butler
  • Alun Cairns
  • Christine Chapman
  • Andrew Davies
  • Geraint Davies
  • Janet Davies
  • Jocelyn Davies
  • Sue Essex
  • Val Feld
  • Michael German
  • William Graham
  • John Griffiths
  • Christine Gwyther
  • Alison Halford
  • Brian Hancock
  • Jane Hutt
  • Ann Jones
  • Carwyn Jones
  • Gareth Jones
  • Helen Mary Jones
  • Peter Law
  • Huw Lewis
  • David Melding
  • Tom Middlehurst
  • Jonathan Morgan
  • Lynne Neagle
  • Jenny Randerson
  • Rod Richards
  • Janet Ryder
  • Karen Sinclair
  • Gwenda Thomas
  • Owen John Thomas
  • Rhodri Glyn Thomas
  • Kirsty Williams
  • Phil Williams

Cynnig Trefniadol

Procedural Motion

John Marek The Deputy Presiding Officer spoken in English p. 101

John Marek Y Dirprwy Lywydd siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 101

I call the Minister for Assembly Business to propose a procedural motion to postpone the debate on the local transport services special grant report.

Galwaf ar y Trefnydd i gynnig cynnig trefniadol i ohirio’r ddadl ar adroddiad grant arbennig gwasanaethau trafnidiaeth lleol.

Andrew Davies The Minister for Assembly Business spoken in English p. 101

Andrew Davies Y Trefnydd siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 101

I propose that

Cynigiaf fod

John Marek The Deputy Presiding Officer spoken in English p. 101

John Marek Y Dirprwy Lywydd siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 101

Ten Members must show support in order for us to proceed with this motion. I see that that is the case. Under Standing Order No. 6.10, if 10 Members object, they may block this motion. Do 10 Members object? I see that they do not. We will therefore proceed to a vote.

Rhaid i 10 Aelod ddangos eu cefnogaeth er mwyn inni symud ymlaen â’r cynnig hwn. Gwelaf fod hynny’n wir. O dan Reol Sefydlog Rhif 6.10, os bydd 10 Aelod yn gwrthwynebu, gallant atal y cynnig hwn. A oes 10 Aelod yn gwrthwynebu? Gwelaf nad oes. Felly awn ymlaen i bleidlais.

DerbyniwydAdopted O blaidFor 37 YmatalAbstain 0 Yn erbynAgainst 0

Derbyniwyd y cynnig.

Motion adopted.

Sut y pleidleisiodd yr AelodauHow Members voted
O blaidFor (37)
  • Lorraine Barrett
  • Mick Bates
  • Peter Black
  • Rosemary Butler
  • Alun Cairns
  • Christine Chapman
  • Andrew Davies
  • Geraint Davies
  • Janet Davies
  • Jocelyn Davies
  • Sue Essex
  • Val Feld
  • Michael German
  • William Graham
  • John Griffiths
  • Christine Gwyther
  • Alison Halford
  • Brian Hancock
  • Jane Hutt
  • Ann Jones
  • Carwyn Jones
  • Gareth Jones
  • Peter Law
  • Huw Lewis
  • David Melding
  • Tom Middlehurst
  • Jonathan Morgan
  • Lynne Neagle
  • Jenny Randerson
  • Rod Richards
  • Janet Ryder
  • Karen Sinclair
  • Gwenda Thomas
  • Owen John Thomas
  • Rhodri Glyn Thomas
  • Kirsty Williams
  • Phil Williams

Cynnig Trefniadol

Procedural Motion

John Marek The Deputy Presiding Officer spoken in English p. 102

John Marek Y Dirprwy Lywydd siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 102

I call the Minister for Assembly Business to propose a procedural motion to postpone the debate on the sustainable development action plan.

Galwaf ar y Trefnydd i gynnig cynnig trefniadol i ohirio’r ddadl ar gynllun gweithredu datblygu cynaliadwy.

Andrew Davies The Minister for Assembly Business spoken in English p. 102

Andrew Davies Y Trefnydd siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 102

I propose that

Cynigiaf fod

John Marek The Deputy Presiding Officer spoken in English p. 102

John Marek Y Dirprwy Lywydd siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 102

Ten Members must indicate that there is support for us to move forward with the procedural motion. I see that they do. Do 10 Members object? I see that they do not, therefore we will proceed to a vote.

Rhaid i 10 Aelod ddangos eu cefnogaeth er mwyn inni symud ymlaen â’r cynnig trefniadol. Gwelaf eu bod yn gwneud hynny. A oes 10 Aelod yn gwrthwynebu? Gwelaf nad oes, felly awn ymlaen i bleidlais.

DerbyniwydAdopted O blaidFor 36 YmatalAbstain 0 Yn erbynAgainst 0

Derbyniwyd y cynnig.

Motion adopted.

Sut y pleidleisiodd yr AelodauHow Members voted
O blaidFor (36)
  • Lorraine Barrett
  • Mick Bates
  • Peter Black
  • Rosemary Butler
  • Alun Cairns
  • Christine Chapman
  • Andrew Davies
  • Geraint Davies
  • Janet Davies
  • Jocelyn Davies
  • Sue Essex
  • Val Feld
  • Michael German
  • William Graham
  • John Griffiths
  • Christine Gwyther
  • Alison Halford
  • Brian Hancock
  • Jane Hutt
  • Ann Jones
  • Carwyn Jones
  • Gareth Jones
  • Peter Law
  • Huw Lewis
  • David Melding
  • Tom Middlehurst
  • Jonathan Morgan
  • Lynne Neagle
  • Jenny Randerson
  • Rod Richards
  • Janet Ryder
  • Karen Sinclair
  • Gwenda Thomas
  • Rhodri Glyn Thomas
  • Kirsty Williams
  • Phil Williams

John Marek The Deputy Presiding Officer spoken in English p. 103

John Marek Y Dirprwy Lywydd siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 103

That brings today’s proceedings to a close.

Daw hynny â chyfarfod heddiw i ben.

Daeth y cyfarfod i ben am 5.34 p.m.

The session ended at 5.34 p.m.