Cymraeg

Cynulliad Cenedlaethol CymruNational Assembly for Wales · Cyfarfod llawnPlenary sitting

Dydd Iau 1 Tachwedd 2001

Thursday 1 November 2001

DechreuoddMet 09:05 · Daeth i benRose 12:58

Gweld y Cofnod (PDF)View the Record (PDF)

Heb ei wirio â llaw etoNot yet checked by hand

CynnwysContents

  1. 3Cwestiynau i’r Gweinidog dros Iechyd a Gwasanaethau CymdeithasolQuestions to the Minister for Health and Social Services
    1. 3Camddefnyddio SylweddauSubstance Misuse
    2. 5Y Campws Meddygol ym MangorThe Medical Campus at Bangor
    3. 7Y Frwydr yn erbyn MRSAThe Battle against MRSA
    4. 8Trin CataractauCataract Treatment
    5. 10Cyfleusterau Ysbytai PreifatPrivate Hospital Facilities
    6. 11Rôl Partneriaethau Cyhoeddus-Preifat/Mentrau Cyllid Preifat yn y Sector IechydThe Role of Public-Private Partnerships/Private Finance Initiatives in the Health Sector
    7. 12Gwella Amserau Ymateb AmbiwlansauImproving Ambulance Response Times
  2. 13Cwestiynau i’r Gweinidog dros Addysg a Dysgu Gydol OesQuestions to the Minister for Education and Lifelong Learning
    1. 13Canlyniadau Arholiadau TGAUGCSE Examination Results
    2. 15Rhaglen Beilot ar gyfer y Fagloriaeth GymreigThe Welsh Baccalaureate’s Pilot Programme
    3. 17Dysgu’r Anthem Genedlaethol mewn YsgolionTeaching the Welsh National Anthem in Schools
    4. 18Rhoi Terfyn ar Gyhoeddi Tablau PerfformiadEnding the Publication of Performance Tables
    5. 20Morâl Staff yn y Sector Addysg BellachStaff Morale in the Further Education Sector
    6. 22Ail Ysgol Uwchradd Gymraeg yn AbertaweA Second Welsh Secondary School for Swansea
  3. 23Cwestiynau i Bwyllgor y TŷQuestions to the House Committee
    1. 23Swyddfa Bost yn Nhŷ CrucywelA Post Office within Crickhowell House
    2. 25Derbyniadau a Lywyddir gan Aelodau’r CynulliadAdvertisement of Assembly Member Hosted Receptions
    3. 25Ystafell ar Gyfer Myfyrdod neu AddoliadA Room for Reflection or Worship
    4. 27Gwasanaethau ar Gael ar Fewnrwyd y SeneddAccess to Services Offered by the Parliamentary Intranet Service
    5. 29Ailgylchu Gwastraff a gynhyrchir yn Nhŷ CrucywelRecycling of Waste from Crickhowell House
    6. 29Cwynion am y FfreuturComplaints about the Canteen
    7. 30Asesiadau Iechyd a DiogelwchHealth and Safety Assessments
  4. 32Pwyntiau o DrefnPoints of Order
  5. 34Datganiad ar Dechnoleg Band LlydanStatement on Broadband Technology
  6. 56Datganiad ar Ddiogelwch wrth Ddringo MynyddoeddStatement on Mountain Climbing Safety
  7. 64Datganiad ar y Bwrdd Ymgynghorol Anableddau DysguStatement on the Learning Disabilities Advisory Board
  8. 79Pwyntiau o DrefnPoints of Order
  9. 84Adroddiadau Blynyddol Cadeiryddion y Pwyllgorau RhanbarthThe Annual Reports of the Chairs of the Regional Committees 1 bleidlais1 vote
  10. 92Dadl FerShort Debate
    1. 92Undebau CredydCredit Unions

PleidleisiauVotes

PleidlaisVoteO blaidForYmatalAbstainYn erbynAgainstCanlyniadResult
Adroddiadau Blynyddol Cadeiryddion y Pwyllgorau RhanbarthThe Annual Reports of the Chairs of the Regional Committees
Cynnig NDM812Motion NDM8122700DerbyniwydAdopted

TrafodionProceedings

Cyfarfu’r Cynulliad am 9.05 a.m. gyda’r Llywydd yn y Gadair.

The Assembly met at 9.05 a.m. with the Presiding Officer in the Chair.

Cwestiynau i’r Gweinidog dros Iechyd a Gwasanaethau Cymdeithasol

Questions to the Minister for Health and Social Services

Camddefnyddio Sylweddau

Substance Misuse

Q1 Alison Halford spoken in English p. 3

C1 Alison Halford siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 3

What progress has been made in tackling substance misuse in Wales? (OAQ13239)

Sut mae’r gwaith ar gamddefnyddio sylweddau yng Nghymru yn mynd yn ei flaen? (OAQ13239)

Jane Hutt The Minister for Health and Social Services spoken in English p. 3

Jane Hutt Y Gweinidog dros Iechyd a Gwasanaethau Cymdeithasol siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 3

The Welsh substance misuse strategy was launched last year following extensive development, and consultation with experts from all the relevant services in Wales. I have established a new advisory panel on substance misuse, and enhanced the Assembly’s ability to support and advise those working in the area of substance misuse by bringing the Welsh drug and alcohol unit into the Assembly. The strategy is being delivered locally by five drug and alcohol action teams in Wales.

Lansiwyd strategaeth camddefnyddio sylweddau Cymru y llynedd yn dilyn datblygiad helaeth, ac ymgynghori ag arbenigwyr o’r holl wasanaethau perthnasol yng Nghymru. Yr wyf wedi sefydlu panel ymgynghorol newydd ar gamddefnyddio sylweddau, ac wedi gwella gallu’r Cynulliad i roi cymorth a chyngor i’r rhai sy’n gweithio ym maes camddefnyddio sylweddau drwy ddod ag uned cyffuriau ac alcohol Cymru o dan adain y Cynulliad. Cyflwynir y strategaeth yn lleol gan bum tîm gweithredu cyffuriau ac alcohol yng Nghymru.

Alison Halford spoken in English p. 3

Alison Halford siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 3

I congratulate you on all your initiatives. Notwithstanding, heroin use in Wales has unexpectedly increased over the past few months and drug charities report a rise in heroin use from four to 84 cases a year. Catherine Zeta Jones recently claimed that it is easier to get drugs than beer in parts of Wales. Drugs Aid states that it is increasingly difficult to find detox beds. It is known that once an addict is turned away, he or she may never apply for help again. Can you assure me that treatment, where possible, will be immediately available and comprehensive?

Hoffwn eich llongyfarch ar bob un o’ch mentrau. Er hynny, mae nifer y bobl sy’n defnyddio heroin yng Nghymru wedi cynyddu’n annisgwyl yn ystod y misoedd diwethaf ac mae elusennau cyffuriau yn nodi cynnydd yn y defnydd o heroin o bedwar i 84 achos y flwyddyn. Honnodd Catherine Zeta Jones yn ddiweddar ei bod yn haws cael cyffuriau na chwrw mewn rhai rhannau o Gymru. Mae Drugs Aid yn datgan bod dod o hyd i welyau dadwenwyno yn anos. Gwyddys unwaith y caiff rhywun sy’n gaeth i gyffuriau ei wrthod, na fydd ef neu hi’n debygol o wneud cais am help eto. A allwch fy sicrhau y bydd triniaeth, lle y bo’n bosibl, ar gael ar unwaith ac yn gynhwysfawr?

Jane Hutt spoken in English p. 3

Jane Hutt siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 3

This is a serious matter, particularly for our young people. We have substantially increased direct Assembly expenditure on drug and alcohol initiatives. The £500,000 additional funding in last week’s draft budget to support drug rehabilitation and treatment services is of key importance. Clearly that means detox beds and the residential and rehabilitation projects that we support in Wales. It also means the community detox projects that are being developed by the voluntary sector. I assure you that this is an issue that we are all addressing seriously, particularly the increased use of heroin.

Mae hwn yn fater difrifol, yn arbennig i’n pobl ifanc. Yr ydym wedi cynyddu gwariant uniongyrchol y Cynulliad ar fentrau cyffuriau ac alcohol yn sylweddol. Mae’r swm ychwanegol o £500,000 yng nghyllideb ddrafft yr wythnos diwethaf i gefnogi gwasanaethau adsefydlu a thriniaeth ar gyfer cyffuriau yn allweddol bwysig. Yn amlwg, golyga hynny welyau dadwenwyno a’r prosiectau preswyl ac adsefydlu a gefnogwn yng Nghymru. Golyga hefyd y prosiectau dadwenwyno cymunedol a ddatblygir gan y sector gwirfoddol. Rhoddaf sicrwydd i chi ein bod oll yn ymdrin â’r mater hwn yn ddifrifol, yn arbennig yr achosion cynyddol o ddefnyddio heroin.

David Davies spoken in English p. 4

David Davies siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 4

Is it not a paradox that, on the one hand, you are happy to spend millions of pounds discouraging people from smoking and, on the other, your colleagues in the Westminster Government are moving towards legalising soft drugs? Also, if this is a serious matter, as you claim, can you tell us where your Cabinet colleagues are?

Onid yw’n baradocs eich bod, ar un llaw, yn fodlon gwario miliynau o bunnoedd yn annog pobl i beidio ag ysmygu, ac ar y llaw arall, bod eich cyd-Aelodau yn Llywodraeth San Steffan yn symud tuag at gyfreithloni cyffuriau meddal? Hefyd, os yw’r mater hwn yn un difrifol, fel yr honnwch, a allwch ddweud wrthym beth yw barn eich cyd-Aelodau yn y Cabinet?

Jane Hutt spoken in English p. 4

Jane Hutt siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 4

You know, David, that the reclassification of cannabis is a matter for the Home Office. It will be reclassified from a class B to a class C drug, which is different from decriminalisation or legalisation. Cannabis will remain a controlled drug and its use a criminal offence. We must concentrate on the key issue, and that is Alison’s point about heroine use; we should target our attention on tackling that scourge of young people in Wales.

Gwyddoch, David, mai mater i’r Swyddfa Gartref yw ailddosbarthu canabis. Caiff ei ailddosbarthu o gyffur dosbarth B i gyffur dosbarth C, sy’n wahanol i gyfreithloni. Bydd canabis yn parhau i fod yn gyffur dan reolaeth ac mae’n drosedd i’w ddefnyddio. Rhaid inni ganolbwyntio ar y mater allweddol, sef pwynt Alison ynglŷn â defnyddio heroin; dylem roi ein holl sylw i’r gwaith o fynd i’r afael â’r pla hwnnw ymhlith pobl ifanc yng Nghymru.

John Griffiths spoken in English p. 4

John Griffiths siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 4

The regulations and national minimum standards for care homes for younger adults will create considerable challenges for the six registered residential care homes in Wales specialising in substance misuse. Building work, for example, will be costly. Will you investigate this situation and how we may assist the care providers to overcome these difficulties?

Bydd y rheoliadau a’r isafswm safonau cenedlaethol ar gyfer cartrefi gofal i oedolion iau yn gryn her i’r chwe chartref gofal preswyl cofrestredig yng Nghymru sy’n arbenigo mewn camddefnyddio sylweddau. Bydd y gwaith adeiladu, er enghraifft, yn ddrud. A wnewch chi ymchwilio i’r sefyllfa hon a sut y gallwn gynorthwyo’r darparwyr gofal i oresgyn yr anawsterau hyn?

Jane Hutt spoken in English p. 4

Jane Hutt siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 4

Under our grant scheme we support a number of residential rehabilitation centres in Wales. The national minimum standards that have been out to consultation under the Care Standards Act 2000 are a matter for concern for all the residential units in Wales, in all the care sectors. However, this is a consultation exercise concerning what we can achieve in partnership with the care sector. It is about the longer term, as well as the short-term standards that we must achieve. I can assure you that we will consult closely to ensure that our services are not affected.

O dan ein cynllun grant, cefnogwn nifer o ganolfannau adsefydlu preswyl yng Nghymru. Mae’r isafswm safonau cenedlaethol yr ymgynghorwyd arnynt o dan Ddeddf Safonau Gofal 2000 yn destun pryder i bob un o’r unedau preswyl yng Nghymru, ym mhob un o’r sectorau gofal. Fodd bynnag, ymarfer ymgynghori yw hwn sy’n ymwneud â’r hyn y gallwn ei gyflawni mewn partneriaeth â’r sector gofal. Mae’n ymwneud â’r tymor hwy, yn ogystal â’r safonau byrdymor y mae’n rhaid inni eu cyflawni. Gallaf eich sicrhau y byddwn yn ymgynghori’n agos i sicrhau nad effeithir ar ein gwasanaethau.

Jocelyn Davies spoken in English p. 5

Jocelyn Davies siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 5

Point of order. Here we are in Plenary and no Ministers are present except for one. There is no Minister for Assembly Business—

Pwynt o drefn. Yr ydym yma mewn Cyfarfod Llawn ac nid oes Gweinidog yn bresennol ac eithrio un. Nid oes Trefnydd—

Dafydd Elis-Thomas The Presiding Officer spoken in English p. 5

Dafydd Elis-Thomas Y Llywydd siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 5

Order. I will take points of order arising from questions immediately after questions.

Trefn. Byddaf yn nodi’r pwyntiau o drefn sy’n deillio o’r cwestiynau yn syth ar ôl y cwestiynau.

Y Campws Meddygol ym Mangor

The Medical Campus at Bangor

C2 Ieuan Wyn Jones Arweinydd yr Wrthblaid siaradwyd yn Gymraeg t. 5

Q2 Ieuan Wyn Jones Arweinydd yr Wrthblaid spoken in Welsh p. 5

A wnaiff y Gweinidog ddatganiad byr ar ddatblygiad y campws meddygol ym Mangor? (OAQ13540)

Q2 The Leader of the Opposition (Ieuan

Wyn Jones): Will the Minister make a brief statement on the development of the medical campus at Bangor? (OAQ13540)

Jane Hutt spoken in English p. 5

Jane Hutt siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 5

A draft business case for the north Wales clinical school will be submitted to the Assembly shortly. A high-level strategy group will consider it and make final recommendations to me on future medical education research in Wales in the new year.

Caiff achos busnes drafft ar gyfer ysgol glinigol gogledd Cymru ei gyflwyno i’r Cynulliad yn fuan. Bydd grŵp strategaeth lefel uchel yn ei ystyried ac yn gwneud argymhellion terfynol imi ar yr ymchwil i addysg feddygol yng Nghymru yn y dyfodol yn y flwyddyn newydd.

Ieuan Wyn Jones siaradwyd yn Gymraeg t. 5

Ieuan Wyn Jones spoken in Welsh p. 5

Tybiais y dywedech fod gweddill y Cabinet i fyny’r grisiau yn penderfynu’n derfynol ar safle’r campws meddygol ym Mangor. Fodd bynnag, a wnewch chi gadarnhau bod angen sicrhau bod darpariaeth ar gael—a honno’n ddarpariaeth sydd yn cydlynu’r hyn sy’n digwydd ym Mangor, yng Nghaerdydd ac yn Wrecsam—fel bod Cymru’n cael y gwasanaeth gorau i hyfforddi meddygon a nyrsys? A wnewch chi gadarnhau hefyd mai un o’r blaenoriaethau, o safbwynt yr hyfforddiant hwnnw, yw sicrhau bod nifer o feddygon yn cael eu hyfforddi drwy gyfrwng y Gymraeg, gan fod cymaint o brinder o feddygon sy’n medru’r Gymraeg yng Nghymru wledig?

I thought that you would say that the rest of the Cabinet was upstairs making the final decision on the site of the medical campus in Bangor. However, will you confirm that we need to ensure that provision is available—and that that provision co-ordinates what is happening in Bangor, in Cardiff, and in Wrexham—so that Wales receives the best training service for doctors and nurses? Will you also confirm that one of the priorities, in terms of that training, is to ensure that a number of doctors are trained through the medium of Welsh, since there is such a shortage of doctors who can speak Welsh in rural Wales?

Jane Hutt spoken in English p. 5

Jane Hutt siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 5

The University of Wales, Bangor, with the North East Wales Institute of Higher Education and local NHS trusts, already makes a significant contribution to training medical undergraduates in Wales, as you know. An important strategic alliance has been established between Bangor, NEWIHE, and the three trusts to develop this and to ensure that they approach this expansion on a united front across north Wales. Clearly, this will be important for the increase in medical students that we want to achieve over the next two years. We need an additional 400 medical students in training. This will be helped by the all-Wales— [CONSERVATIVE ASSEMBLY MEMBERS: ‘Mike German saves the day.’]

Mae Prifysgol Cymru, Bangor, ynghyd ag Athrofa Addysg Uwch Gogledd Ddwyrain Cymru (NEWIHE) ac ymddiriedolaethau NHS lleol, eisoes yn gwneud cyfraniad sylweddol i hyfforddi israddedigion meddygol yng Nghymru, fel y gwyddoch. Sefydlwyd cynghrair strategol bwysig rhwng Bangor, NEWIHE, a’r tair ymddiriedolaeth i ddatblygu hyn a sicrhau eu bod yn mynd i’r afael â’r ehangu hwn drwy fod yn unedig ledled gogledd Cymru. Yn amlwg, bydd hyn yn bwysig i gyflawni’r cynnydd mewn myfyrwyr meddygol yr ydym am ei weld yn ystod y ddwy flynedd nesaf. Mae angen 400 o fyfyrwyr meddygol ychwanegol dan hyfforddiant arnom. Cynorthwyir hyn gan— [AELODAU CEIDWADOL Y CYNULLIAD: ‘Mae Mike German yn achub y dydd.’]

Dafydd Elis-Thomas The Presiding Officer spoken in English p. 6

Dafydd Elis-Thomas Y Llywydd siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 6

Order.

Trefn.

Jane Hutt spoken in English p. 6

Jane Hutt siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 6

On Ieuan’s point on Welsh-speaking students and doctors—which is important for north Wales—if we have more students who are able to train in north Wales as well as work there after qualifying, then we will achieve our objective.

Ynglŷn â phwynt Ieuan am fyfyrwyr a meddygon sy’n siarad Cymraeg—sy’n bwysig i ogledd Cymru—os bydd gennym fwy o fyfyrwyr a all hyfforddi yng ngogledd Cymru yn ogystal â gweithio yno ar ôl graddio, yna byddwn yn cyflawni ein hamcan.

Dafydd Elis-Thomas The Presiding Officer spoken in English p. 6

Dafydd Elis-Thomas Y Llywydd siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 6

I call Brian Gibbons and remind him that this question is about Bangor.

Galwaf ar Brian Gibbons ac yr wyf am ei atgoffa mai cwestiwn ynglŷn â Bangor yw hwn.

Brian Gibbons spoken in English p. 6

Brian Gibbons siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 6

I thought it was about medical students.

Credais ei fod yn ymwneud â myfyrwyr meddygol.

Dafydd Elis-Thomas The Presiding Officer spoken in English p. 6

Dafydd Elis-Thomas Y Llywydd siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 6

It is about the medical campus in Bangor.

Mae’n ymwneud â’r campws meddygol ym Mangor.

Brian Gibbons spoken in English p. 6

Brian Gibbons siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 6

What role do think the medical campus in Bangor will play in achieving your target of doubling the number of medical students in Wales within the next few years?

Pa rôl fydd gan y campws meddygol ym Mangor o ran cyflawni eich targed i ddyblu nifer y myfyrwyr meddygol yng Nghymru o fewn y blynyddoedd nesaf?

Jane Hutt spoken in English p. 6

Jane Hutt siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 6

As I have already said, this is about the expansion of medical education throughout Wales. Bangor is key to that, as is NEWIHE and other institutions in Wales. The clinical school in Swansea will open soon. The students are already on board, which is important. We must remember that there is already a great deal of expertise in Bangor. The recently announced chair of cancer services is important there. Bangor’s international reputation in psychology is also key and I was pleased to recently launch the child and adolescent mental health strategy at the University of Wales, Bangor.

Fel y dywedais eisoes, mae hyn yn ymwneud ag ehangu addysg feddygol ledled Cymru. Mae Bangor yn allweddol i hynny, yn ogystal â NEWIHE a sefydliadau eraill yng Nghymru. Bydd yr ysgol glinigol yn Abertawe yn agor cyn hir. Mae’r myfyrwyr eisoes yn rhan ohoni, ac mae hynny’n bwysig. Rhaid inni gofio bod llawer o arbenigedd ym Mangor eisoes. Mae’r cadeirydd ar gyfer gwasanaethau canser, a gyhoeddwyd yn ddiweddar, yn bwysig yno. Mae enw da rhyngwladol Bangor ym maes seicoleg hefyd yn allweddol ac yr oedd yn bleser gennyf lansio’r strategaeth iechyd meddwl ar gyfer plant a phobl ifanc ym Mhrifysgol Cymru, Bangor yn ddiweddar.

Y Frwydr yn erbyn MRSA

The Battle against MRSA

Q3 Gwenda Thomas spoken in English p. 7

C3 Gwenda Thomas siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 7

What measures are being taken to ensure that hospitals in Wales are winning the battle against methicillin resistant staphylococcus aureus? (OAQ13241)

Pa fesurau sy’n cael eu cymryd i sicrhau bod ysbytai Cymru yn ennill y frwydr yn erbyn MRSA? (OAQ13241)

Jane Hutt spoken in English p. 7

Jane Hutt siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 7

The NHS plan states that hygiene will be given a high priority in hospitals so that hospital acquired infections, including MRSA, are reduced. It is now a key management responsibility to ensure that hygiene and infection control become embedded in training, induction and operational procedures at all staff levels. A number of initiatives are now encouraging and supporting effective infection control.

Mae cynllun yr NHS yn nodi y rhoddir blaenoriaeth uchel i hylendid mewn ysbytai er mwyn gostwng nifer yr heintiau a geir mewn ysbytai, yn cynnwys MRSA. Cyfrifoldeb allweddol y rheolwyr bellach yw sicrhau y daw hylendid a rheoli heintiau yn rhan hanfodol o’r hyfforddiant, y rhaglen sefydlu a’r gweithdrefnau rheoli i staff ar bob lefel. Mae nifer o fentrau bellach yn annog ac yn cefnogi dulliau effeithiol o reoli heintiau.

Gwenda Thomas spoken in English p. 7

Gwenda Thomas siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 7

Will you explain what is being done to help those in the frontline?

A wnewch chi egluro’r hyn sy’n cael ei wneud i helpu’r rhai yn y rheng flaen?

Jane Hutt spoken in English p. 7

Jane Hutt siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 7

It is important that NHS trusts have their own infection-control policies and procedures. In January, all trusts were instructed to undertake an audit to consider their policies and procedures on the identification of possible risk in terms of infection control. It is also important that we look at leadership at ward level. We are considering stopping outsourcing and bringing cleaning back under the direct management of the NHS thereby ending competitive tendering of trusts and focusing on results.

Mae’n bwysig bod gan ymddiriedolaethau’r NHS eu polisïau a’u gweithdrefnau eu hunain ar gyfer rheoli heintiau. Ym mis Ionawr, rhoddwyd cyfarwyddyd i bob ymddiriedolaeth i gynnal archwiliad ac ystyried eu polisïau a’u gweithdrefnau ar gyfer nodi risg posibl o ran rheoli heintiau. Mae hefyd yn bwysig inni ystyried arweinyddiaeth ar lefel wardiau. Yr ydym yn ystyried atal defnyddio ffynonellau allanol a dod â’r broses o lanhau yn ôl o dan reolaeth uniongyrchol yr NHS gan roi diwedd ar dendro cystadleuol yr ymddiriedolaethau a chanolbwyntio ar ganlyniadau.

David Lloyd siaradwyd yn Gymraeg t. 7

David Lloyd spoken in Welsh p. 7

Pwynt pwysig arall yw sicrhau nyrsio rhwystrol digonol. A wnaiff y Gweinidog neilltuo’r adnoddau angenrheidiol i sicrhau’r math hwnnw o nyrsio ym mhob ysbyty yng Nghymru?

Another important point is ensuring adequate barrier nursing. Will the Minister earmark the necessary resources for that kind of nursing in every hospital in Wales?

Jane Hutt spoken in English p. 7

Jane Hutt siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 7

People are being light-hearted on this sunny autumn day: I heard some laughter. We have set aside resources. It is important that the infection-control nurses lead on infection control. We have put additional money into trusts this year to ensure that those nurses have up-to-date equipment. We are also funding extra training and ensuring that money has been allocated to decontamination and sterilisation procedures, which is also a part of combating MRSA.

Mae pobl yn siriol iawn ar y diwrnod heulog hwn o hydref: clywais rywfaint o chwerthin. Yr ydym wedi neilltuo adnoddau. Mae’n bwysig bod y nyrsys sy’n rheoli heintiau yn arwain y broses o reoli heintiau. Yr ydym wedi rhoi arian ychwanegol i ymddiriedolaethau eleni i sicrhau bod gan y nyrsys hynny yr offer diweddaraf. Yr ydym hefyd yn ariannu hyfforddiant ychwanegol ac yn sicrhau bod arian wedi’i ddosbarthu i weithdrefnau diheintio a sterileiddio, sydd hefyd yn rhan o’r broses o gael gwared ar MRSA.

Janice Gregory spoken in English p. 8

Janice Gregory siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 8

The control of MRSA is important. The use of disposable equipment in tonsillectomy operations, in particular, has helped to combat it. However, do you share my concern that because there is not enough equipment available to trusts, operations are being delayed and young children are being affected by those delays?

Mae rheoli MRSA yn bwysig. Mae defnyddio offer tafladwy mewn llawdriniaethau tonsilectomi, yn arbennig, wedi helpu i’w atal. Fodd bynnag, a ydych yn rhannu fy mhryder ynglŷn â’r ffaith y caiff llawdriniaethau eu gohirio a bod yr oedi yn effeithio ar blant ifanc am nad oes digon o offer ar gael i’r ymddiriedolaethau?

Jane Hutt spoken in English p. 8

Jane Hutt siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 8

The important microbiological ideal on sterilisation and decontamination is that single-use instruments are used. There is an UK-wide issue in relation to tonsillectomies, which has affected us. Single-use instruments have been supplied, but there have been difficulties with the implementation of such procedures, which is reflected, unfortunately, in the fact that people are having to wait for their tonsillectomies. However, the matter is being addressed.

Y ddelfryd feicrobiolegol ar gyfer sterileiddio a diheintio yw y defnyddir offer y gellir eu defnyddio unwaith yn unig. Mae mater sy’n berthnasol i’r DU gyfan ynglŷn â thonsilectomïau, sydd wedi effeithio arnom. Cyflenwyd offer y gellir eu defnyddio unwaith yn unig, ond cafwyd anawsterau wrth weithredu gweithdrefnau o’r fath, a adlewyrchir, yn anffodus, gan y ffaith bod yn rhaid i bobl aros am eu tonsilectomïau. Fodd bynnag, ymdrinnir â’r mater.

Trin Cataractau

Cataract Treatment

Q4 Huw Lewis spoken in English p. 8

C4 Huw Lewis siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 8

Will the Minister make a statement on the provision of services for cataract treatment in north Bro Taf? (OAQ13379)

A wnaiff y Gweinidog ddatganiad ar y gwasanaethau a ddarperir yng ngogledd Bro Taf i drin cataractau? (OAQ13379)

Jane Hutt spoken in English p. 8

Jane Hutt siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 8

Cataract services in north Bro Taf are provided by Pontypridd and Rhondda NHS Trust consultants working in north Glamorgan and Pontypridd and Rhondda NHS Trust sites. Services for Bro Taf are also provided by the opthalmic centre at Bridgend.

Darperir gwasanaethau cataractau yng ngogledd Bro Taf gan feddygon ymgynghorol Ymddiriedolaeth NHS Pontypridd a’r Rhondda sy’n gweithio yn safleoedd Ymddiriedolaethau NHS gogledd Morgannwg a Phontypridd a’r Rhondda. Darperir gwasanaethau ar gyfer Bro Taf gan y ganolfan offthalmig ym Mhen-y-bont ar Ogwr hefyd.

Huw Lewis spoken in English p. 8

Huw Lewis siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 8

I welcome the investment made in the treatment of cataracts, and, in particular, your commitment to reducing waiting lists and times in this regard.

Croesawaf y buddsoddiad a wnaethpwyd o ran trin cataractau, ac, yn arbennig, eich ymrwymiad i ostwng y rhestrau a’r amseroedd aros yn hyn o beth.

However, are you aware that in my constituency referrals for people with cataracts is still a serious problem? The severity of the problem has been described by some professionals in the local health service as the worst in Wales. Will you look at ensuring rates of early diagnosis and an improvement in the rate of referrals?

Fodd bynnag, a ydych yn ymwybodol bod cyfeirio pobl sydd â chataractau yn dal i fod yn broblem ddifrifol yn fy etholaeth i? Disgrifiwyd difrifoldeb y broblem gan rai pobl broffesiynol yn y gwasanaeth iechyd lleol fel y gwaethaf yng Nghymru. A wnewch chi ystyried sicrhau cyfraddau ar gyfer diagnosis cynnar a gwella’r gyfradd cyfeirio pobl?

Jane Hutt spoken in English p. 9

Jane Hutt siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 9

As you know the Assembly made £500,000 available last year for eye care initiatives to reduce cataract waiting times. Around £100,000 of that money was invested by Bro Taf health authority. We recognise the issues that have arisen in north Bro Taf and in the North Glamorgan NHS Trust, therefore an extra cataract list has been set up for north Glamorgan at the treatment centre in Bridgend. Furthermore, locum arrangements have been made to ensure a net increase in consultants in the short term. A fourth opthalmologist has been appointed in the area to start at the end of the year. That will help with the growing number of patients who need those cataract operations.

Fel y gwyddoch, sicrhaodd y Cynulliad fod £500,000 ar gael y llynedd ar gyfer mentrau gofal llygaid i ostwng yr amseroedd aros ar gyfer trin cataractau. Buddsoddwyd oddeutu £100,000 o’r arian hwnnw gan awdurdod iechyd Bro Taf. Cydnabyddwyd y materion sydd wedi codi yng ngogledd Bro Taf ac yn Ymddiriedolaeth NHS Gogledd Morgannwg, ac, o ganlyniad, lluniwyd rhestr cataractau ychwanegol ar gyfer gogledd Morgannwg yn y ganolfan driniaeth ym Mhen-y-bont ar Ogwr. Ar ben hynny, gwnaethpwyd trefniadau locwm i sicrhau cynnydd net yn nifer y meddygon ymgynghorol yn y byrdymor. Penodwyd pedwerydd offthalmolegydd yn yr ardal i ddechrau ar ddiwedd y flwyddyn. Bydd hynny’n helpu gyda’r nifer cynyddol o gleifion y mae angen llawdriniaethau cataractau arnynt.

William Graham spoken in English p. 9

William Graham siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 9

Minister, I am sure you agree that Cheltenham is a charming town, with its regency architecture and its fine race course, but why are my constituents having to go there for cataract operations? Why are resources not adequately provided in Wales?

Weinidog, yr wyf yn siŵr y cytunwch fod Cheltenham yn dref ddymunol, gyda’i phensaernïaeth raglywiaethol a’i chwrs rasio gwych, ond pam bod yn rhaid i’m hetholwyr fynd yno i gael llawdriniaethau cataract? Pam na ddarperir adnoddau digonol yng Nghymru?

Jane Hutt spoken in English p. 9

Jane Hutt siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 9

Resources are adequately provided throughout Wales, but it is clear that boundaries should not get in the way of providing the best possible treatment to your patients, and I am sure that is what they would think in your area. I can assure you that those services are available inside Wales, and on our borders.

Darperir adnoddau digonol ledled Cymru, ond mae’n amlwg na ddylai ffiniau rwystro’r gwaith o ddarparu’r driniaeth orau bosibl i’ch cleifion, ac yr wyf yn siŵr mai dyna fyddai eu barn yn eich ardal chi. Gallaf eich sicrhau bod y gwasanaethau hynny ar gael o fewn Cymru, ac ar y gororau.

Geraint Davies spoken in English p. 9

Geraint Davies siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 9

Prince Charles Hospital has an excellent record for treating cardiac patients, in that the door-to-needle time for treatment giving thrombolytic drugs is much shorter there than in other hospitals in Wales. What measures are you taking to ensure that that good practice is spread throughout the hospitals of Wales?

Mae gan Ysbyty’r Tywysog Siarl enw da ar gyfer trin cleifion ag afiechydon y galon, ac mae’r amser o’r drws i’r nodwydd ar gyfer triniaeth sy’n rhoi cyffuriau thrombolytig yn llawer byrrach yno nag mewn ysbytai eraill yng Nghymru. Pa fesurau yr ydych yn eu cymryd i sicrhau y lledaenir arferion da drwy ysbytai Cymru?

Jane Hutt spoken in English p. 10

Jane Hutt siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 10

I am glad to hear that positive comment about the excellent work done in Prince Charles Hospital. That is the sort of practice that we want to spread throughout Wales. Some hospitals will take the lead in excellence, and others will be part of a partnership in delivering the services.

Yr wyf yn falch o glywed y sylw positif hwnnw ynglŷn â’r gwaith ardderchog a wneir yn Ysbyty’r Tywysog Siarl. Dyna’r math o arfer yr ydym am ei ledaenu ledled Cymru. Bydd rhai ysbytai yn arwain y gad o ran rhagoriaeth, a bydd eraill yn rhan o bartneriaeth wrth ddarparu’r gwasanaethau.

Cyfleusterau Ysbytai Preifat

Private Hospital Facilities

Q5 Owen John Thomas spoken in English p. 10

C5 Owen John Thomas siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 10

Can the Minister make a statement on the NHS use of private hospital facilities? (OAQ13552)

A wnaiff y Gweinidog ddatganiad ar y defnydd a wneir gan yr NHS o gyfleusterau ysbytai preifat? (OAQ13552)

Jane Hutt spoken in English p. 10

Jane Hutt siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 10

The NHS only uses private hospital facilities where this supplements existing NHS facilities, and either extends the range of services available to patients, or speeds access to them. It will not do so in a way that prejudices NHS services, or undermines their long-term capacity, or sustainability.

Bydd yr NHS ond yn defnyddio cyfleusterau ysbytai preifat pan fydd hyn yn ychwanegu at gyfleusterau presennol yr NHS, ac naill ai’n ymestyn ystod y gwasanaethau sydd ar gael i gleifion, neu’n cyflymu mynediad iddynt. Ni fydd yn gwneud hynny mewn ffordd sy’n niweidio gwasanaethau’r NHS, neu’n tanseilio eu capasiti neu eu cynaliadwyedd hirdymor.

Owen John Thomas spoken in English p. 10

Owen John Thomas siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 10

In addition to the NHS’s increasing use of private hospital facilities, considerable numbers of patients are being forced into debt to pay for private treatment. The extent of this use is a measure of the national health service’s increasing failure to meet people’s needs. How are you monitoring this trend?

Yn ogystal â defnydd cynyddol yr NHS o gyfleusterau ysbytai preifat, gorfodir nifer sylweddol o gleifion i fynd i ddyled i dalu am driniaeth breifat. Mae’r graddau y defnyddir triniaeth breifat yn fesur o fethiant cynyddol y gwasanaeth iechyd gwladol i ddiwallu anghenion pobl. Sut yr ydych yn monitro’r duedd hon?

Jane Hutt spoken in English p. 10

Jane Hutt siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 10

I dispute that. We have a low capacity for private hospital treatment in Wales—we have only seven private hospitals, compared with over 400 in England. We must ensure that people can have treatment in the NHS, and I am doing that by, for example, putting £12 million into addressing orthopaedic waiting times. However, we also use the private sector on occasion through the NHS, which pays for the treatment so that people do not have to meet the cost from their own pocket. The NHS exists to provide publicly funded treatment, which is free at the point of use.

Anghytunaf â hynny. Mae gennym gapasiti isel ar gyfer triniaeth mewn ysbytai preifat yng Nghymru—dim ond saith ysbyty preifat sydd gennym, o’i gymharu â dros 400 yn Lloegr. Rhaid inni sicrhau y gall pobl gael triniaeth yn yr NHS, ac yr wyf yn gwneud hynny drwy, er enghraifft, roi £12 miliwn i ymdrin ag amseroedd aros orthopedig. Fodd bynnag, defnyddiwn y sector preifat ar adegau hefyd drwy’r NHS, sy’n talu am y driniaeth er mwyn sicrhau nad oes rhaid i bobl dalu’r gost o’u pocedi eu hunain. Mae’r NHS yn bodoli i ddarparu triniaeth a ariennir gan arian cyhoeddus, sydd yn rhad ac am ddim.

David Melding spoken in English p. 10

David Melding siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 10

Do you agree that we should not have ideological objections to using the independent and private sector to deliver national health services, and that it is appropriate to use their capacity, as long as we do not charge the patients who receive those services?

A gytunwch na ddylem wrthwynebu’n ideolegol y syniad o ddefnyddio’r sector annibynnol a phreifat i ddarparu gwasanaethau iechyd gwladol, a’i fod yn briodol defnyddio eu capasiti, ar yr amod na chodwn dâl ar y cleifion sy’n cael y gwasanaethau hynny?

Jane Hutt spoken in English p. 11

Jane Hutt siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 11

I agree. That is what we are doing, and that was the tone of my answer.

Cytunaf. Dyna beth yr ydym yn ei wneud, a dyna oedd byrdwn fy ateb.

Rôl Partneriaethau Cyhoeddus-Preifat/Mentrau Cyllid Preifat yn y Sector Iechyd

The Role of Public-Private Partnerships/Private Finance Initiatives in the Health Sector

Q6 Pauline Jarman spoken in English p. 11

C6 Pauline Jarman siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 11

Will the Minister make a brief statement on the role of public-private partnerships/private finance initiatives in the health sector in Wales? (OAQ13532)

A wnaiff y Gweinidog ddatganiad byr ar rôl partneriaethau cyhoeddus preifat/mentrau cyllid preifat yn y sector iechyd yng Nghymru? (OAQ13532)

Jane Hutt spoken in English p. 11

Jane Hutt siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 11

The private finance initiative has been used, where appropriate, for several years in the NHS in Wales to complement the public funding of schemes. Projects have included several combined energy management schemes, staff residences, and the Chepstow Community Hospital. Two projects currently in progress are Neath Port Talbot Hospital, and St David’s Hospital in Cardiff.

Defnyddiwyd y fenter cyllid preifat (PFI), lle y bo’n briodol, am sawl blwyddyn yn yr NHS yng Nghymru i ategu’r broses o ddefnyddio arian cyhoeddus ar gyfer cynlluniau. Mae’r prosiectau wedi cynnwys sawl cynllun rheoli ynni cyfunol, cartrefi staff, ac Ysbyty Cymuned Cas-gwent. Dau brosiect sydd ar waith ar hyn o bryd yw Ysbyty Castell-nedd a Phort Talbot ac Ysbyty Dewi Sant yng Nghaerdydd.

Pauline Jarman spoken in English p. 11

Pauline Jarman siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 11

Can you confirm that the new hospital in Rhondda, and the Porthmadog community hospital, will receive direct capital investment from the Assembly? If that is the case, can we welcome the end of Labour’s expensive and exploitative PFI experiment in Wales?

A allwch gadarnhau y bydd yr ysbyty newydd yn y Rhondda, ac ysbyty cymuned Porthmadog, yn cael buddsoddiad cyfalaf uniongyrchol gan y Cynulliad? Os felly, a allwn groesawu diwedd yr arbrawf PFI drud ac ymelwol gan Lafur yng Nghymru?

Jane Hutt spoken in English p. 11

Jane Hutt siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 11

As Rhodri Morgan said in Plenary on Tuesday, following Edwina Hart’s draft budget statement last week, we intend to publicly fund the next two hospitals that are on the stocks, namely Rhondda and Porthmadog. I am pleased to confirm that that is the way forward for those two hospitals.

Fel y dywedodd Rhodri Morgan yn y Cyfarfod Llawn ddydd Mawrth, yn dilyn datganiad Edwina Hart ar y gyllideb ddrafft yr wythnos diwethaf, yr ydym yn bwriadu defnyddio arian cyhoeddus i ariannu’r ddau ysbyty sydd ar y gweill, sef yr ysbytai yn y Rhondda a Phorthmadog. Yr wyf yn falch o gadarnhau mai dyma’r ffordd ymlaen ar gyfer y ddau ysbyty hyn.

Jonathan Morgan spoken in English p. 11

Jonathan Morgan siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 11

Do you agree that, instead of reverting to the dark ages—as Plaid Cymru—The Party of Wales seems to want the Assembly to do—PFI provides an excellent opportunity for public service provision in Wales to ensure a large amount of capital investment through the private sector. The private sector should be encouraged to have involvement in a real partnership with the Assembly to ensure that more money gets into these vital public service provisions.

A gytunwch fod PFI, yn hytrach na dychwelyd i’r oesoedd tywyll—fel yr ymddengys y mae Plaid Cymru—The Party of Wales am i’r Cynulliad ei wneud—yn darparu cyfle gwych i wasanaethau cyhoeddus yng Nghymru sicrhau swm mawr o fuddsoddiad cyfalaf drwy’r sector preifat. Dylid annog y sector preifat i gymryd rhan mewn partneriaeth wirioneddol â’r Cynulliad i sicrhau y rhoddir mwy o arian i’r gwasanaethau cyhoeddus hanfodol hyn.

Jane Hutt spoken in English p. 12

Jane Hutt siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 12

I have sought to achieve, and have achieved in the draft budget this year, an extension of the public funding of our capital provision in Wales. I have also ensured that public benefit is at the forefront of any public-private partnerships in Wales.

Ceisiais gyflawni, a llwyddais i gyflawni yn y gyllideb ddrafft eleni, estyniad o’r arian cyhoeddus a roddir i’n darpariaeth gyfalaf yng Nghymru. Yr wyf hefyd wedi sicrhau bod lles y cyhoedd yn rheng flaen unrhyw bartneriaethau cyhoeddus-preifat yng Nghymru.

Gwella Amserau Ymateb Ambiwlansau

Improving Ambulance Response Times

Q7 Peter Law spoken in English p. 12

C7 Peter Law siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 12

What action is the Minister taking to improve ambulance response times across Wales? (OAQ13248)

Pa gamau y mae’r Gweinidog yn eu cymryd i wella amserau ymateb ambiwlansau Cymru? (OAQ13248)

Jane Hutt spoken in English p. 12

Jane Hutt siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 12

The emergency ambulance service is funded by health authorities, and there are periodic discussions between the health authorities and the Ambulance Trust for Wales about performance issues. The 10 rapid-response vehicles purchased directly through Assembly funding have all been in action since the summer and are contributing towards the performance on immediately life-threatening cases. The NHS plan performance management task and finish group is considering the overall management performance of the ambulance service.

Ariennir y gwasanaeth ambiwlans brys gan awdurdodau iechyd, a cheir trafodaethau rheolaidd rhwng yr awdurdodau iechyd ac Ymddiriedolaeth Ambiwlans Cymru ynglŷn â materion yn ymwneud â pherfformiad. Bu’r 10 cerbyd ymateb cyflym a brynwyd yn uniongyrchol drwy arian y Cynulliad ar waith ers yr haf ac maent yn cyfrannu at y gwaith o ymateb i achosion sy’n peryglu bywydau. Mae grŵp gorchwyl a gorffen rheoli perfformiad cynllun yr NHS yn ystyried perfformiad rheoli cyffredinol y gwasanaeth ambiwlans.

Peter Law spoken in English p. 12

Peter Law siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 12

Will the Minister intervene in the disgraceful situation in my constituency of Blaenau Gwent—which is, sadly, the health blackspot of Wales—where the emergency response times are the slowest across the country at present? Remarkably, two rapid-response vehicles were withdrawn by the ambulance trust a few months ago. The chief executive of the ambulance trust, who is supposed to manage this operation, recently blamed the National Assembly for the life-threatening situations that have arisen from the trust’s lack of resources.

A wnaiff y Gweinidog ymyrryd yn y sefyllfa warthus yn fy etholaeth i, Blaenau Gwent—sydd, yn anffodus, yn un o’r ardaloedd gwaethaf o ran iechyd yng Nghymru—lle y ceir yr amseroedd arafaf yn y wlad ar gyfer ymateb i alwadau brys? Yn rhyfeddol, tynnwyd dau gerbyd ymateb cyflym yn ôl gan yr ymddiriedolaeth ambiwlans ychydig fisoedd yn ôl. Yn ddiweddar, bu i brif weithredwr yr ymddiriedolaeth ambiwlans, a ddylai reoli hyn, feio’r Cynulliad Cenedlaethol am y sefyllfaoedd sy’n peryglu bywydau a ddeilliodd o ddiffyg adnoddau yr ymddiriedolaeth.

Jane Hutt spoken in English p. 12

Jane Hutt siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 12

I am surprised at that response. The ambulance trust visited the Assembly last week and I announced a further £3.6 million to go directly to the trust to help it improve its performance management. It must know that that is direct funding and that we expect it to deliver.

Mae’r ymateb hwnnw’n fy synnu. Ymwelodd yr ymddiriedolaeth ambiwlans â’r Cynulliad yr wythnos diwethaf a chyhoeddais y byddai £3.6 miliwn ychwanegol yn mynd yn uniongyrchol i’r ymddiriedolaeth i’w helpu i wella ei dull o reoli perfformiad. Rhaid ei bod yn gwybod mai arian uniongyrchol yw hwn a’n bod yn disgwyl iddi gyflawni hynny.

Geraint Davies spoken in English p. 13

Geraint Davies siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 13

That £3.6 million was capital funding to replace ageing ambulances. The sum of £8.7 million in revenue money is needed to attain the target that this Government set, which is to respond to 75 per cent of calls within eight minutes. That target was supposed to be achieved this year. When will the £8.7 million be available to the ambulance trust so that it can achieve a target set by you?

Arian cyfalaf i gael ambiwlansau newydd yn lle hen rai oedd y £3.6 miliwn hwnnw. Mae angen y swm o £8.7 miliwn yn arian refeniw i gyrraedd y targed a osododd y Llywodraeth hon, sef i ymateb i 75 y cant o alwadau o fewn wyth munud. Dylai’r targed hwnnw fod wedi’i gyrraedd eleni. Pryd bydd yr £8.7 miliwn ar gael i’r ymddiriedolaeth ambiwlans er mwyn iddi allu cyflawni targed a osodwyd gennych?

Jane Hutt spoken in English p. 13

Jane Hutt siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 13

As I said at the beginning, the ambulance trust is funded by health authorities and trusts. Health authorities increased their funding to the trust last year. The money that we have directly given has gone to capital services, as you said, but we must ensure that the health authorities, while they are in charge, increase their funding to improve performance.

Fel y dywedais ar y dechrau, ariennir yr ymddiriedolaeth ambiwlans gan awdurdodau iechyd ac ymddiriedolaethau. Cyfrannodd awdurdodau iechyd fwy o arian i’r ymddiriedolaeth y llynedd. Mae’r arian a roddwyd yn uniongyrchol gennym wedi mynd i wasanaethau cyfalaf, fel y dywedasoch, ond rhaid inni sicrhau bod awdurdodau iechyd, tra byddant yn gyfrifol, yn cyfrannu mwy o arian i wella perfformiad.

Brian Gibbons spoken in English p. 13

Brian Gibbons siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 13

I am sure the Minister will remember that Geraint made the same point in the Health and Social Services Committee last week. I looked at the report on which that figure is based. Do you agree that the amount—almost £10 million—includes actual capital expenditure and not revenue expenditure exclusively, as Geraint said?

Yr wyf yn siŵr y bydd y Gweinidog yn cofio i Geraint wneud yr un pwynt yn y Pwyllgor Iechyd a Gwasanaethau Cymdeithasol yr wythnos diwethaf. Edrychais ar yr adroddiad y seilir y ffigur hwnnw arno. A gytunwch fod y swm—ymron i £10 miliwn—yn cynnwys gwariant cyfalaf gwirioneddol ac nid gwariant refeniw yn unig, fel y dywedodd Geraint?

Jane Hutt spoken in English p. 13

Jane Hutt siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 13

The people in the ambulance services work hard under pressure. They are improving their targets and making great progress with the extra investment from the National Assembly for Wales.

Mae’r bobl yn y gwasanaethau ambiwlans yn gweithio’n galed o dan bwysau. Maent yn gwella eu targedau ac yn gwneud cynnydd mawr gyda’r buddsoddiad ychwanegol gan Gynulliad Cenedlaethol Cymru.

Cwestiynau i’r Gweinidog dros Addysg a Dysgu Gydol Oes

Questions to the Minister for Education and Lifelong Learning

Canlyniadau Arholiadau TGAU

GCSE Examination Results

Q1 Glyn Davies spoken in English p. 13

C1 Glyn Davies siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 13

Will the Minister make a statement on general certificate of secondary education examination results in respect of the Welsh language in Wales? (OAQ13392)

A wnaiff y Gweinidog ddatganiad ynghylch canlyniadau arholiadau tystysgrif gyffredinol addysg uwchradd o ran y Gymraeg yng Nghymru? (OAQ13392)

Jane Davidson The Minister for Education and Lifelong Learning spoken in English p. 14

Jane Davidson Y Gweinidog dros Addysg a Dysgu Gydol Oes siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 14

This year’s results will not be ready for release until 12 November.

Ni fydd canlyniadau eleni yn barod i’w rhyddhau tan 12 Tachwedd.

Glyn Davies spoken in English p. 14

Glyn Davies siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 14

Two headmasters have raised with me an issue of great concern to them. Some schools are entering Welsh language students for examinations and courses that are inappropriately low for them, for the sole purpose of achieving higher results. That is damaging to the pupils and to the future of the Welsh language. The likelihood of their being able to speak the language afterwards is greatly lessened. Will you investigate how extensive this practice is and ensure that it ceases?

Mae dau bennaeth wedi tynnu fy sylw at fater sydd o bwys mawr iddynt hwy. Mae rhai ysgolion yn rhoi myfyrwyr iaith Gymraeg i sefyll arholiadau a chyrsiau sydd yn anaddas o isel ar eu cyfer, a’r unig reswm dros hyn yw er mwyn cael canlyniadau uwch. Mae hynny yn niweidiol i’r myfyrwyr ac i ddyfodol y Gymraeg. Mae’r tebygolrwydd y byddant yn gallu siarad yr iaith ar ôl hynny yn cael ei leihau yn sylweddol. A wnewch chi ymchwilio i ba mor eang yw’r arfer hwn a sicrhau y daw i ben?

Jane Davidson spoken in English p. 14

Jane Davidson siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 14

If you write to me on behalf of the schools concerned, I will take the matter on board. It is vital that we have confidence in our examination system and the qualifications achieved.

Os ysgrifennwch ataf ar ran yr ysgolion dan sylw, rhoddaf sylw i’r mater. Mae’n hanfodol bod gennym hyder yn ein system arholi a’r cymwysterau a gyflawnir.

John Griffiths spoken in English p. 14

John Griffiths siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 14

Given that Welsh language tuition in areas such as Newport is more problematic than in other areas of Wales because there are fewer Welsh-speaking teachers to draw on locally and less Welsh is spoken in the community, will you consider providing assistance to local education authorities in such areas to help overcome those difficulties?

O ystyried bod addysgu drwy gyfrwng y Gymraeg mewn ardaloedd megis Casnewydd yn fwy problematig nag mewn rhannau eraill o Gymru oherwydd bod llai o athrawon lleol sy’n siarad Cymraeg a llai o Gymraeg yn cael ei siarad yn y gymuned, a ystyriwch roi cymorth i awdurdodau addysg lleol mewn ardaloedd o’r fath er mwyn helpu i oresgyn yr anawsterau hynny?

Jane Davidson spoken in English p. 14

Jane Davidson siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 14

We already provide substantial extra money to recruit and train Welsh-medium teachers, and we will continue to support that. As you are probably aware, the Education and Lifelong Learning Committee is about to undertake its own review of Welsh-medium education. I will seriously consider the recommendations that come out of that review.

Yr ydym eisoes yn rhoi arian ychwanegol sylweddol i recriwtio a hyfforddi athrawon drwy gyfrwng y Gymraeg, a byddwn yn parhau i gefnogi hynny. Fel y gwyddoch mae’n siŵr, mae’r Pwyllgor Addysg a Dysgu Gydol Oes ar fin ymgymryd â’i adolygiad ei hun o addysg drwy gyfrwng y Gymraeg. Byddaf yn ystyried o ddifrif yr argymhellion fydd yn deillio o’r adolygiad hwnnw.

Brian Hancock spoken in English p. 14

Brian Hancock siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 14

Will you consider Welsh-medium schools that supply Welsh-medium education for more than one local authority? Their capitation money—their pots of gold—is based on their pupil numbers, but their capital costs are based purely on one of the authorities. A typical school is Ysgol Gyfun Gwynllyw, which serves five local education authorities but only receives capital from the Torfaen authority.

A wnewch chi ystyried ysgolion cyfrwng Cymraeg sy’n cyflenwi addysg drwy gyfrwng y Gymraeg i fwy nag un awdurdod lleol? Mae eu harian y pen—eu tomenydd o aur—yn seiliedig ar niferoedd eu disgyblion, ond mae eu costau cyfalaf yn gwbl seiliedig ar un o’r awdurdodau. Ysgol nodweddiadol yw Ysgol Gyfun Gwynllyw, sy’n gwasanaethu pump o awdurdodau addysg lleol ond sydd yn derbyn cyfalaf gan awdurdod Torfaen yn unig.

Jane Davidson spoken in English p. 15

Jane Davidson siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 15

The current arrangement is that all schools are the responsibility of their local education authority in terms of capital costs. The LEA then enters into arrangements with other LEAs regarding the amount of money per pupil that is allocated to those schools. We have no intention of changing that arrangement at the moment.

Y trefniant presennol yw mai’r awdurdod addysg lleol sy’n gyfrifol am bob ysgol o ran costau cyfalaf. Yna mae’r AALl yn gwneud trefniadau gydag awdurdodau eraill o ran y swm o arian fesul disgybl a ddyrennir i’r ysgolion hynny. Nid ydym yn bwriadu newid y trefniant hwnnw ar hyn o bryd.

Rhaglen Beilot ar gyfer y Fagloriaeth Gymreig

The Welsh Baccalaureate’s Pilot Programme

Q2 Janet Davies spoken in English p. 15

C2 Janet Davies siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 15

What incentives are offered to schools and colleges that are considering taking part in the pilot programme of the Welsh baccalaureate? (OAQ13522)

Pa gymhellion sy’n cael eu cynnig i ysgolion a cholegau sy’n ystyried bod yn rhan o’r rhaglen beilot ar gyfer y fagloriaeth Gymreig? (OAQ13522)

Jane Davidson spoken in English p. 15

Jane Davidson siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 15

The Welsh baccalaureate gives schools and colleges the opportunity to participate in an exciting, innovative development. The Welsh Joint Education Committee will provide close support and training for schools and colleges, including finance for co-ordinators and the release of staff for training. The WJEC will also provide dedicated materials and information technology.

Mae’r fagloriaeth Gymreig yn rhoi cyfle i ysgolion a cholegau gyfranogi mewn datblygiad cyffrous ac arloesol. Bydd Cyd-bwyllgor Addysg Cymru yn rhoi cymorth ac hyfforddiant manwl i ysgolion a cholegau, yn cynnwys arian ar gyfer cydlynwyr ac i ryddhau staff ar gyfer hyfforddiant. Bydd CBAC hefyd yn darparu deunyddiau a thechnoleg gwybodaeth.

Janet Davies spoken in English p. 15

Janet Davies siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 15

The model developed by the WJEC is made up, almost entirely, of existing qualifications, such as A-levels, AS-levels, general national vocational qualifications and general certificates of secondary education, which leaves it open to the weaknesses identified in curriculum 2000. What convinces you that this is likely to be a winning format?

Mae’r model a ddatblygwyd gan y cyd-bwyllgor wedi ei lunio, bron yn gyfan gwbl, o gymwysterau presennol, megis Safon Uwch, Uwch Gyfrannol, cymwysterau galwedigaethol cenedlaethol cyffredinol a thystysgrif gyffredinol addysg uwchradd, sydd yn ei adael yn agored i’r gwendidau a nodwyd yng nghwricwlwm 2000. Beth sy’n eich argyhoeddi y bydd hwn yn debygol o fod yn fformat llwyddiannus?

Jane Davidson spoken in English p. 15

Jane Davidson siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 15

What convinces me that it is likely to be a winning format is that the WJEC put in a successful tender and the Welsh baccalaureate fully complies with the baccalaureate model. This means that a curriculum for upper secondary education used as a school leaving examination may be used as a qualification for admission to higher education, entry to employment and a foundation for lifelong learning. It is a programme of study which constitutes a broad and balanced curriculum, containing a compulsory core element offering learners a common experience in addition to optional or elective elements. Also, many schools and colleges in Wales are keen to sign up to this pilot.

Yr hyn sy’n fy argyhoeddi y bydd yn debygol o fod yn fformat llwyddiannus yw i CBAC gyflwyno tender llwyddiannus a bod y fagloriaeth Gymreig yn cydymffurfio’n llawn â’r model bagloriaeth. Golyga hyn y gellir defnyddio cwricwlwm addysg uwchradd uwch a ddefnyddir fel arholiad gadael ysgol fel cymhwyster ar gyfer cael mynediad i addysg uwch, cyflogaeth ac fel sylfaen ar gyfer dysgu gydol oes. Mae’n rhaglen astudio sy’n cynnwys cwricwlwm eang a chytbwys, yn cynnwys elfen graidd orfodol yn cynnig profiad cyffredin i ddysgwyr yn ogystal ag elfennau dewisol. Yn ogystal, mae nifer o ysgolion a cholegau yng Nghymru yn awyddus i gymryd rhan yn y cynllun peilot hwn.

Mick Bates spoken in English p. 16

Mick Bates siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 16

I join you, Minister, in welcoming this innovative approach to education and the formation of a Welsh baccalaureate. Can you assure us, however, that there will be sufficient funds, so that schools taking part will not suffer as a result of their desire to further the quality of the education provided?

Ymunaf â chi, Weinidog, wrth groesawu’r ymagwedd arloesol hon tuag at addysg a chreu’r fagloriaeth Gymreig. A allwch roi sicrwydd inni, fodd bynnag, y bydd arian digonol ar gael, fel na fydd ysgolion sy’n cymryd rhan yn dioddef o ganlyniad i’w hawydd i wella ansawdd yr addysg a ddarperir?

Jane Davidson spoken in English p. 16

Jane Davidson siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 16

That is a helpful point. In my main answer, I skated over this issue. However, the pilot scheme will provide sufficient finance to support the release of a Welsh baccalaureate co-ordinator for each institution; provide sufficient finance for the release of all teachers and lecturers involved in project working groups or taking part in the in-service training programme; provide institutions, free of charge, with materials developed for the course; establish an information and commucications technology intranet for participating institutions to share materials; meet all additional assessments and examination fees; and provide particular support for teachers acting as personal tutors, including a training programme. This is a fully funded pilot scheme and the most exciting opportunity for post-16 education that we have ever had in Wales.

Mae hwnnw’n bwynt defnyddiol. Yn fy mhrif ateb prin y cyffyrddais â’r mater hwn. Fodd bynnag, bydd y cynllun peilot yn rhoi arian digonol i ryddhau cydlynwyr y fagloriaeth Gymreig, un ar gyfer pob sefydliad; darparu digon o arian ar gyfer rhyddhau pob athro a darlithydd sy’n cymryd rhan mewn gweithgorau project neu’r rhaglen hyfforddiant mewn swydd; darparu deunyddiau a ddatblygwyd ar gyfer y cwrs i sefydliadau yn rhad ac am ddim; sefydlu mewnrwyd technoleg gwybodaeth a chyfathrebu er mwyn i sefydliadau sy’n cyfranogi rannu deunyddiau; diwallu ffioedd pob asesiad ychwanegol ac arholiadau; a rhoi cefnogaeth benodol i athrawon sy’n gweithio fel tiwtoriaid personol, yn cynnwys rhaglen hyfforddi. Mae hwn yn gynllun peilot sydd wedi ei ariannu’n llawn a dyma’r cyfle mwyaf cyffrous ar gyfer addysg ôl-16 oed yr ydym erioed wedi ei gael yng Nghymru.

Nick Bourne The Leader of the Welsh Conservatives spoken in English p. 16

Nick Bourne Arweinydd Ceidwadwyr Cymru siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 16

Minister, was not the approach of your predecessor, Rosemary Butler, the right one? She would have nothing to do with this titty nonsense, which has only been brought in because of a Liberal Democrat fad. How much will it cost to introduce the Welsh baccalaureate, and what about the ongoing costs? How many rural schools could be saved with that money?

Weinidog, onid oedd ymagwedd eich rhagflaenydd, Rosemary Butler, yn gywir? Nid oedd yn fodlon cael dim i’w wneud â’r nonsens hwn, sydd ond wedi ei gyflwyno oherwydd chwiw’r Democratiaid Rhyddfrydol. Faint fydd yn ei gostio i gyflwyno’r fagloriaeth Gymreig, a beth am y costau parhaus? Sawl ysgol wledig allai gael ei hachub gyda’r arian hwnnw?

Jane Davidson spoken in English p. 16

Jane Davidson siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 16

I absolutely reject your analysis. We have always considered establishing the Welsh baccalaureate, and we consolidated that in the partnership agreement. I have long been a supporter of ensuring that we widen the opportunities for young people in Wales, and I will continue to support that.

Gwrthodaf eich dadansoddiad yn llwyr. Yr ydym bob amser wedi ystyried sefydlu’r fagloriaeth Gymreig, a chadarnhawyd hynny yn y cytundeb partneriaeth. Yr wyf wedi cefnogi sicrhau ein bod yn ehangu’r cyfleoedd ar gyfer pobl ifanc yng Nghymru ers tro byd a byddaf yn parhau i gefnogi hynny.

Dysgu’r Anthem Genedlaethol mewn Ysgolion

Teaching the Welsh National Anthem in Schools

C3 Gwenda Thomas siaradwyd yn Gymraeg t. 17

Q3 Gwenda Thomas spoken in Welsh p. 17

Pa wybodaeth sydd gan y Gweinidog ynghylch i ba raddau y caiff yr anthem genedlaethol ei dysgu mewn ysgolion yng Nghymru? (OAQ13366)

What information does the Minister have on the extent of the teaching of the Welsh national anthem in Welsh schools? (OAQ13366)

Jane Davidson siaradwyd yn Gymraeg t. 17

Jane Davidson spoken in Welsh p. 17

Nid yw’r Cynulliad fel arfer yn casglu gwybodaeth ynghylch dysgu’r anthem genedlaethol yn ysgolion Cymru. Mater i athrawon unigol ydyw yn y bôn, ond fe ddylai’r Cwricwlwm Cymreig gynnig digonedd o gyfleoedd i ddysgu’r anthem.

The Assembly does not normally collect information about teaching the national anthem in schools in Wales. This is essentially a matter for individual teachers but the Curriculum Cymreig should provide ample opportunity to learn the national anthem.

Yn ôl adroddiad Estyn ar y Cwricwlwm Cymreig, a gyhoeddwyd yn gynharach eleni, yr oedd athrawon mewn nifer o ysgolion yn teimlo bod dyfnhau ymwybyddiaeth eu disgyblion o ddiwylliant Cymru a’u Cymreictod yn gyfraniad pwysig at eu datblygiad personol a chymdeithasol. Da o beth yw hynny yn fy marn i.

The Estyn report on the Curriculum Cymreig published earlier this year indicated that teachers from a number of schools felt that an increased awareness of Welsh culture and identity was an important contribution to pupils’ personal and social development. That is a good thing in my opinion.

Gwenda Thomas spoken in English p. 17

Gwenda Thomas siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 17

I am sure that you remember, as I do, the former Secretary of State for Wales, John Redwood, and his attempt at singing the national anthem, which made him look like Parker, the Thunderbirds puppet.

Yr wyf yn siŵr y cofiwch, fel y cofiaf i, cyn Ysgrifennydd Gwladol Cymru, John Redwood, a’i ymgais i ganu’r anthem genedlaethol, a wnaeth iddo ymddangos fel Parker, y pyped yn Thunderbirds.

Dafydd Elis-Thomas The Presiding Officer spoken in English p. 17

Dafydd Elis-Thomas Y Llywydd siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 17

Order. The question is about teaching the national anthem in schools in Wales. As far as I am aware, the former Secretary of State for Wales did not attend any school in Wales.

Trefn. Mae’r cwestiwn yn ymwneud â dysgu’r anthem genedlaethol yn ysgolion Cymru. Cyhyd ag y gwn, ni fynychodd cyn Ysgrifennydd Gwladol Cymru unrhyw ysgol yng Nghymru.

Gwenda Thomas spoken in English p. 17

Gwenda Thomas siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 17

The important issue is that people in public life must show a commitment. John Redwood’s commitment to Wales was, and still is, questioned in Wales. Do you agree that people feel excluded socially if they are unable to join in the singing because they have not had the opportunity to learn the words?

Y mater pwysig yw bod yn rhaid i bobl mewn bywyd cyhoeddus ddangos ymrwymiad. Yng Nghymru, cwestiynwyd ymrwymiad John Redwood i Gymru ac mae hynny’n wir o hyd. A gytunwch fod pobl yn teimlo eu bod yn cael eu heithrio yn gymdeithasol os na allant ymuno yn y canu am na chawsant y cyfle i ddysgu’r geiriau?

Jane Davidson spoken in English p. 18

Jane Davidson siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 18

I am grateful for the Presiding Officer’s intervention. A common requirement for all national curriculum subjects is that pupils should be given opportunities to develop and apply knowledge and understanding of the cultural, economic, environmental, historic and linguistic characteristics of Wales. The national anthem encompasses all of those.

Yr wyf yn ddiolchgar i’r Llywydd am ei ymyrraeth. Gofyniad cyffredin ar gyfer pob un o bynciau’r cwricwlwm cenedlaethol yw y dylid rhoi cyfleoedd i ddisgyblion ddatblygu a defnyddio gwybodaeth a dealltwriaeth o nodweddion diwylliannol, economaidd, amgylcheddol, hanesyddol ac ieithyddol Cymru. Mae’r anthem genedlaethol yn ymgorffori pob un o’r rheini.

Certain subjects afford more opportunities for teaching the national anthem than do others. For example, the requirements for teaching music to five to 14-year-olds specifically refer to performing, appraising and listening to the music of Wales, as well as a wider range of music.

Mae rhai pynciau yn cynnig mwy o gyfleoedd ar gyfer dysgu’r anthem genedlaethol nag eraill. Er enghraifft, mae’r gofynion ar gyfer dysgu cerddoriaeth i blant rhwng pump a 14 oed yn cyfeirio’n benodol at berfformio, gwerthuso a gwrando ar gerddoriaeth Cymru, yn ogystal ag ystod ehangach o gerddoriaeth.

Peter Rogers spoken in English p. 18

Peter Rogers siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 18

Does Jane agree that the best way to teach the anthem to students is to ensure their participation in sports and school eisteddfodau? If so, is it possible to secure free school trips to major sporting events when our national team is playing?

A gytuna Jane mai’r ffordd orau o ddysgu’r anthem i fyfyrwyr yw sicrhau eu cyfranogiad mewn chwaraeon ac eisteddfodau ysgol? Os felly, a yw’n bosibl sicrhau teithiau ysgol yn rhad ac am ddim i brif ddigwyddiadau chwaraeon pan fydd ein tîm cenedlaethol yn chwarae?

Jane Davidson spoken in English p. 18

Jane Davidson siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 18

The national anthem belongs to everyone in Wales, and it is of use not only in school but also outside. We encourage all opportunities for its teaching.

Mae’r anthem genedlaethol yn perthyn i bawb yng Nghymru, ac mae’n ddefnyddiol nid yn unig yn yr ysgol ond hefyd y tu allan. Yr ydym yn annog pob cyfle i’w dysgu.

Rhoi Terfyn ar Gyhoeddi Tablau Perfformiad

Ending the Publication of Performance Tables

Q4 Lynne Neagle spoken in English p. 18

C4 Lynne Neagle siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 18

Will the Minister make a statement on ending the publication of performance tables for secondary schools in Wales? (OAQ13403)

A wnaiff y Gweinidog ddatganiad ynghylch rhoi terfyn ar gyhoeddi tablau perfformiad ar gyfer ysgolion uwchradd Cymru? (OAQ13403)

Jane Davidson spoken in English p. 18

Jane Davidson siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 18

The decision to discontinue the publication of secondary schools performance information was taken after full and thorough public consultation, which reinforced what we already knew about these divisive and harmful tables. However, schools will continue to publish their own results, and the Assembly will continue to monitor and publish local education authority and all-Wales results.

Gwnaethpwyd y penderfyniad i roi’r gorau i gyhoeddi gwybodaeth am berfformiad ysgolion uwchradd ar ôl ymgynghoriad cyhoeddus cyflawn a thrylwyr, a atgyfnerthodd yr hyn yr oeddem eisoes yn ei wybod am y tablau niweidiol hyn a oedd yn achosi rhwyg. Fodd bynnag, bydd yr ysgolion yn parhau i gyhoeddi eu canlyniadau eu hunain, a bydd y Cynulliad yn parhau i fonitro a chyhoeddi canlyniadau’r awdurdodau addysg lleol a chanlyniadau Cymru gyfan.

Lynne Neagle spoken in English p. 19

Lynne Neagle siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 19

Your decision seems to have been widely welcomed by many education sector workers, but are you aware of concerns, which I share, that parents will find information harder to obtain? What guarantees can you give, and what steps will you take to ensure that parents, particularly those from deprived communities, are not disadvantaged by the change and that they will receive the information they need?

Ymddengys fod eich penderfyniad wedi ei groesawu’n eang gan nifer o weithwyr yn y sector addysg, ond a ydych yn ymwybodol o bryderon, yr wyf fi yn eu rhannu, y bydd rhieni yn ei chael yn anos i gael gwybodaeth? Pa sicrwydd y gallwch ei roi, a pha gamau y byddwch yn eu cymryd i sicrhau na fydd rhieni, yn enwedig y rhai o gymunedau difreintiedig, o dan anfantais oherwydd y newid ac y byddant yn derbyn y wybodaeth sydd ei hangen arnynt?

Jane Davidson spoken in English p. 19

Jane Davidson siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 19

One of our reasons for taking this route is that we wanted to ensure that parents, in choosing a school—and we are particularly keen that they be encouraged to choose the local school to strengthen its community role—would continue to have access to results. We are developing a proforma across Wales, so that the results will be presented uniformly. That means that schools can consider results in a more informed context and parents can make decisions based not only on crude examination results but also on what else the school offers in the community.

Un o’n rhesymau dros ddewis y trywydd hwn yw ein bod eisiau sicrhau bod rhieni, wrth ddewis ysgol—ac yr ydym yn awyddus iawn eu bod yn cael eu hannog i ddewis yr ysgol leol i gryfhau ei rôl gymunedol—yn parhau i gael mynediad i ganlyniadau. Yr ydym yn datblygu ffurflen ar gyfer Cymru gyfan, fel y bydd y canlyniadau yn cael eu cyflwyno’n unffurf. Golyga hynny y gall ysgolion ystyried canlyniadau mewn cyd-destun mwy hysbys a gall rhieni wneud penderfyniadau yn seiliedig nid yn unig ar ganlyniadau arholiadau moel ond hefyd ar beth arall y mae’r ysgol yn ei gynnig yn y gymuned.

Pauline Jarman spoken in English p. 19

Pauline Jarman siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 19

What advice is available to schools that want to use their results as marketing tools to compete in the recruitment of pupils?

Pa gyngor sydd ar gael i ysgolion sydd am ddefnyddio eu canlyniadau fel dyfeisiau marchnata i gystadlu wrth recriwtio disgyblion?

Jane Davidson spoken in English p. 19

Jane Davidson siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 19

At present, schools can use their results for that purpose. However, I hope that a school would use more than just its results when competing in the recruitment of pupils. What is needed is a philosophy that there should be a community dimension to schooling, that a school should offer much more to its community than just its results.

Ar hyn o bryd, gall ysgolion ddefnyddio eu canlyniadau i’r perwyl hwnnw. Fodd bynnag, gobeithiaf y byddai ysgol yn defnyddio mwy na’i chanlyniadau yn unig wrth gystadlu yn y broses o recriwtio disgyblion. Yr hyn sydd ei angen yw athroniaeth sy’n dweud y dylai fod yna ddimensiwn cymunedol i ysgol, y dylai ysgol gynnig llawer mwy i’w chymuned na dim ond ei chanlyniadau.

Jonathan Morgan spoken in English p. 19

Jonathan Morgan siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 19

Why is the Government treating parents throughout Wales as idiots? It is obviously doing so, as it does not provide all the information so that parents can compare schools. The Minister need not take these decisions; she should allow parents to take them. She should trust parents—as David Melding is saying beside me—to make informed decisions based on results, information and comparisons between schools. Parents are more than able and willing to make those decisions. What have you got to hide?

Pam mae’r Llywodraeth yn trin rhieni ledled Cymru fel ynfydion? Mae’n amlwg yn gwneud hynny, gan nad yw’n darparu’r holl wybodaeth i alluogi rhieni i gymharu ysgolion. Nid oes angen i’r Gweinidog wneud y penderfyniadau hyn; dylai adael i’r rhieni eu gwneud. Dylai ymddiried mewn rhieni—fel y dywed David Melding wrth fy ochr—i wneud penderfyniadau hyddysg yn seiliedig ar ganlyniadau, gwybodaeth a chymharu ysgolion. Mae rhieni yn fwy na chymwys a pharod i wneud y penderfyniadau hynny. Beth sydd gennych i’w guddio?

Jane Davidson spoken in English p. 20

Jane Davidson siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 20

I have nothing to hide. We are ensuring that all parents continue to have access to their local school’s results. Jonathan has missed the point that of the 378 responses to the consultation exercise, almost none—including those of parents—indicated a desire to retain his Government’s system, as it was harmful and divisive. Parents in Wales should consider their local school in the round. They should consider its service to the community and how its results improve year on year. They are free to compare the school’s results with those of other schools, but they should compare all aspects. As Jonathan said, parents are able and willing to support their children’s education. We should encourage them to do so properly by considering the whole context of the school.

Nid oes gennyf ddim i’w guddio. Yr ydym yn sicrhau bod pob rhiant yn parhau i gael mynediad i ganlyniadau eu hysgol leol. Mae Jonathan wedi methu’r pwynt: o’r 378 ymateb i’r ymarfer ymgynghori, ni nododd neb bron—yn cynnwys rhieni—ddyhead i gadw system ei Lywodraeth ef, gan ei fod yn niweidiol ac yn achosi rhwyg. Dylai rhieni yng Nghymru ystyried eu hysgol leol yn y rownd. Dylent ystyried ei gwasanaeth i’r gymuned a sut mae ei chanlyniadau yn gwella o flwyddyn i flwyddyn. Mae pob rhyddid iddynt gymharu canlyniadau’r ysgol gyda chanlyniadau ysgolion eraill, ond dylent gymharu pob agwedd. Fel y dywedodd Jonathan, mae rhieni yn gymwys i gefnogi addysg eu plant ac yn barod i wneud hynny. Dylem eu hannog i wneud hynny yn gywir drwy ystyried cyd-destun llawn yr ysgol.

Morâl Staff yn y Sector Addysg Bellach

Staff Morale in the Further Education Sector

Q5 Jocelyn Davies spoken in English p. 20

C5 Jocelyn Davies siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 20

Will the Minister make a statement on staff morale in the further education sector? (OAQ13515)

A wnaiff y Gweinidog ddatganiad ynghylch morâl staff yn y sector addysg bellach? (OAQ13515)

Jane Davidson spoken in English p. 20

Jane Davidson siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 20

I declare an interest. As my husband is a further education lecturer and a member of the executive committee of the National Association of Teachers in Further and Higher Education, I know much about staff morale in the further education sector.

Jane Davidson Datganaf fuddiant. Gan fod fy ngŵr yn ddarlithydd addysg bellach ac yn aelod o bwyllgor gwaith Cymdeithas Genedlaethol Athrawon Addysg Uwch ac Addysg Bellach, yr wyf yn gwybod llawer am forâl staff yn y sector addysg bellach.

The further education sector plays a vital role in our aims for lifelong learning in Wales. Those aims cannot be achieved without the continued commitment of staff. Many factors affect the morale and commitment of staff, not least pay. It is therefore important that staff be fairly rewarded for the commitment that they show and the success that they achieve. To this end, I provided an additional £3.17 million to Education and Learning Wales earlier this year to help meet prospective pressures on costs in the FE sector. It is for individual governing bodies to determine, in their particular circumstances, what levels of pay are affordable and to make offers to staff accordingly.

Mae’r sector addysg bellach yn chwarae rôl allweddol yn ein nodau ar gyfer dysgu gydol oes yng Nghymru. Ni ellir cyflawni’r nodau hynny heb ymrwymiad parhaus y staff. Mae nifer o ffactorau yn effeithio ar forâl ac ymrwymiad y staff, yn arbennig y cyflog. Felly mae’n bwysig bod staff yn cael eu gwobrwyo’n deg am yr ymrwymiad a ddangosant a’r llwyddiant a gyflawnant. I’r perwyl hwn, darparais £3.17 miliwn ychwanegol i Dysgu ac Addysgu Cymru yn gynharach eleni i helpu i ddiwallu’r pwysau posibl ar gostau yn y sector addysg bellach. Cyfrifoldeb cyrff llywodraethu unigol yw penderfynu, yn eu hamgylchiadau penodol, pa lefelau cyflog y gellir eu fforddio ac i wneud cynigion i’r staff yn unol â hynny.

Jocelyn Davies spoken in English p. 21

Jocelyn Davies siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 21

I am glad that you mentioned pay. At all levels, the quality of education depends on the quality of teaching. Further education lecturers in Wales are paid substantially less than their English counterparts and substantially less than teachers. Do you agree that that is a barrier to raising standards? Does it also go against our commitment to equality of opportunity?

Yr wyf yn falch eich bod wedi sôn am gyflog. Ar bob lefel, mae ansawdd yr addysg yn dibynnu ar ansawdd yr addysgu. Mae darlithwyr addysg bellach yng Nghymru ar gyflogau tipyn llai na’u cymheiriaid yn Lloegr ac yn sylweddol llai nag athrawon. A gytunwch fod hynny yn rhwystr rhag codi safonau? A yw hefyd yn groes i’n hymrwymiad i gyfle cyfartal?

Jane Davidson spoken in English p. 21

Jane Davidson siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 21

As I said, an additional £3.17 million was made available for pay last year, in the first such decision by the Assembly. Although the Assembly does not want to be prescriptive, we expect each institution, in negotiation, to determine a fair, equitable and affordable pay settlement. At yesterday’s meeting of the Education and Lifelong Learning Committee, members decided that they should go back to the Minister for Finance, Local Government and Communities to discuss the matter in the context of this year’s budget.

Fel y dywedais, rhyddhawyd £3.17 miliwn ychwanegol ar gyfer cyflogau y llynedd, yn y penderfyniad cyntaf o’i fath gan y Cynulliad. Er nad yw’r Cynulliad am fod yn gyfarwyddol, disgwyliwn i bob sefydliad, drwy negodiadau, bennu setliad cyflog teg, cyfartal a fforddiadwy. Yng nghyfarfod y Pwyllgor Addysg a Dysgu Gydol Oes ddoe, penderfynodd yr aelodau y dylent fynd yn ôl at y Gweinidog Cyllid, Llywodraeth Leol a Chymunedau i drafod y mater yng nghyd-destun cyllideb eleni.

Tom Middlehurst spoken in English p. 21

Tom Middlehurst siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 21

Does the Minister agree that increasing skills and knowledge is crucial if we are to achieve our ambitious goals for economic growth in Wales? In recognition of lecturers’ key role, which the Minister has acknowledged, will she intervene urgently to ask the Association of Colleges to address the inherent unfairness of the pay offer that it has made to lecturers in Wales, which is morale-sapping compared with the offers made to lecturers in England? It is an affront to lecturers in Wales that the association should seek to drive down pay in Wales, while their English colleagues receive better offers.

A yw’r Gweinidog yn cytuno bod cynyddu sgiliau a gwybodaeth yn hanfodol os ydym am gyflawni ein nodau uchelgeisiol ar gyfer twf economaidd yng Nghymru? Wrth nodi rôl allweddol darlithwyr, y mae’r Gweinidog wedi ei chydnabod, a wnaiff ymyrryd ar fyrder i ofyn i Gymdeithas y Colegau fynd i’r afael â’r annhegwch cynhenid o ran y cynnig cyflog a wnaeth i ddarlithwyr yng Nghymru, sydd yn ergyd i forâl o’i gymharu â’r cynigion a wnaethpwyd i ddarlithwyr yn Lloegr? Mae’n sarhad ar ddarlithwyr yng Nghymru bod y gymdeithas yn anelu at ostwng cyflogau yng Nghymru, tra bod eu cydweithwyr yn Lloegr yn derbyn gwell cynigion.

Jane Davidson spoken in English p. 21

Jane Davidson siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 21

This is a difficult issue: because the previous Conservative Government set up colleges as independent institutions, there are no proper negotiating bases on a national scale. However, I will ask ELWa for advice on ways to improve standards and performance across the board among post-16 providers, especially as regards human resources policy and personnel practice. I have a meeting scheduled with the National Association of Teachers in Further and Higher Education and FFORWM, which is the Association of Further Education Colleges in Wales, and will report back to the Committee on 14 November. This is a serious issue.

Mae hwn yn fater anodd: oherwydd bod y Llywodraeth Geidwadol flaenorol wedi sefydlu colegau fel sefydliadau ar wahân, nid oes seiliau negodi cywir ar raddfa genedlaethol. Fodd bynag, byddaf yn gofyn i ELWa am gyngor ar ffyrdd o wella safonau a pherfformiad yn gyffredinol ymysg darparwyr ôl-16, yn enwedig o ran polisi adnoddau dynol ac ymarfer personél. Mae gennyf gyfarfod wedi ei drefnu gyda Chymdeithas Genedlaethol Athrawon Addysg Bellach ac Addysg Uwch a FFORWM, sef Cymdeithas Colegau Addysg Bellach Cymru, a bydd yn cyflwyno adroddiad i’r Pwyllgor ar 14 Tachwedd. Mae hwn yn fater difrifol.

Ail Ysgol Uwchradd Gymraeg yn Abertawe

A Second Welsh Secondary School for Swansea

Q6 Alun Cairns spoken in English p. 22

C6 Alun Cairns siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 22

Will the Minister make a statement on whether or not she plans to support a private finance initiative bid for a second Welsh secondary school for Swansea? (OAQ13360)

A wnaiff y Gweinidog ddatganiad ynghylch pa un a yw’n bwriadu cefnogi cais menter cyllid preifat i godi ail ysgol uwchradd Gymraeg yn Abertawe? (OAQ13360)

Jane Davidson spoken in English p. 22

Jane Davidson siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 22

I understand that Swansea local education authority is consulting on three options for the future of Welsh-medium secondary provision in the county. None of these options contains any reference to a PFI bid for funding to support the building of a second Welsh-medium secondary school in Swansea. The issue is therefore academic.

Deallaf fod awdurdod addysg lleol Abertawe yn ymgynghori ar dri opsiwn ar gyfer dyfodol darpariaeth addysg uwchradd cyfrwng Cymraeg yn y sir. Nid oes un o’r opsiynau hyn yn cynnwys unrhyw gyfeiriad at gais menter cyllid preifat (PFI) am arian i gefnogi adeiladu ail ysgol uwchradd Gymraeg yn Abertawe. Felly nid yw’r mater yn berthnasol.

Alun Cairns spoken in English p. 22

Alun Cairns siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 22

Does the Minister agree that all pupils deserve the opportunities provided by excellent facilities in schools? She mentioned the options for relocating Ysgol Gyfun Gŵyr. Does the Minister accept that all of those options include the Penlan site? Will she confirm that the dilapidated state of that site would be wholly inappropriate for Welsh-medium education? Will she support a PFI bid when the opportunity arises?

A gytuna’r Gweinidog bod pob disgybl yn haeddu’r cyfleoedd a ddarperir gan gyfleusterau ardderchog mewn ysgolion? Crybwyllodd yr opsiynau ar gyfer adleoli Ysgol Gyfun Gŵyr. A dderbynia’r Gweinidog fod pob un o’r opsiynau hynny yn cynnwys safle Penlan? A wnaiff gadarnhau bod cyflwr adfeiliedig y safle hwnnw yn gyfan gwbl anaddas ar gyfer addysg trwy gyfrwng y Gymraeg? A wnaiff gefnogi cais PFI pan fydd y cyfle yn codi?

Jane Davidson spoken in English p. 22

Jane Davidson siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 22

As I have just said, Swansea LEA has no ambition to make a PFI bid. The question of supporting such a bid is therefore academic. I cannot talk about individual schools because, when there are objections to proposals for individual schools, those proposals then come to me, as Minister, in a quasi-judicial capacity, for determination.

Fel y dywedais, nid oes gan AALl Abertawe unrhyw uchelgais i wneud cais PFI. Felly mae’r cwestiwn o gefnogi cais o’r fath yn amherthnasol. Ni allaf drafod ysgolion unigol oherwydd, pan fo gwrthwynebiadau i gynigion ar gyfer ysgolion unigol, daw’r cynigion hynny ataf fi, fel y Gweinidog, mewn rhinwedd lled-farnwrol, i’w penderfynu.

David Lloyd siaradwyd yn Gymraeg t. 22

David Lloyd spoken in Welsh p. 22

Datganaf fuddiant fel rhiant y mae ei blant yn mynychu dwy o ysgolion Abertawe—gan gynnwys Ysgol Gyfun Gŵyr—ac fel aelod o Gyngor Dinas a Sir Abertawe.

I declare an interest as a parent whose children attend two of Swansea’s schools—including Ysgol Gyfun Gŵyr—and as a member of Swansea City and County Council.

A wnaiff Jane bwyso ar Gyngor Dinas a Sir Abertawe i ddatblygu strategaeth hirdymor i ymdopi â’r galw cynyddol am addysg drwy gyfrwng y Gymraeg yn y sir? Ni fu gennym, ac nid yw’n debygol y cawn ni, strategaeth o’r fath.

Will Jane press Swansea City and County Council to develop a long-term strategy to deal with the increasing demand for Welsh-medium education in the county? We have not had, and are unlikely to have, such a strategy.

Jane Davidson spoken in English p. 23

Jane Davidson siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 23

On the issue of capital, the Assembly has an enormous amount of extra capital funding, which is available for each local authority to use on school buildings over the next few years. Local authorities are legally obliged to ensure that they provide sufficient Welsh-medium education provision. These matters are properly in the hands of the local authority in question.

O ran cyfalaf, mae gan y Cynulliad swm enfawr o arian cyfalaf ychwanegol, sydd ar gael i bob awdurdod lleol i’w ddefnyddio ar adeiladau ysgol dros y blynyddoedd nesaf. Mae’n ofyniad cyfreithiol i awdurdodau lleol sicrhau eu bod yn darparu addysg ddigonol drwy gyfrwng y Gymraeg. Mae’r materion hyn yn nwylo’r awdurdod lleol dan sylw, a hynny’n briodol.

Cwestiynau i Bwyllgor y Tŷ

Questions to the House Committee

Swyddfa Bost yn Nhŷ Crucywel

A Post Office within Crickhowell House

Q1 William Graham spoken in English p. 23

C1 William Graham siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 23

May we have statement on the establishment of a post office within Crickhowell House? (OAQ13384)

A gawn ddatganiad ar sefydlu cangen o swyddfa’r post yn Nhŷ Crucywel? (OAQ13384)

John Marek The Deputy Presiding Officer spoken in English p. 23

John Marek Y Dirprwy Lywydd siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 23

Agreement has been reached with the Post Office for a sub-post office to be established on the ground floor of the Assembly building in Cardiff Bay. Arrangements are still being finalised and the opening date will depend on delivery and installation of Post Office information technology systems. I expect a limited service to be available prior to Christmas and a fully operational service in the new year. We anticipate that the service will initially operate between 12.00 p.m. and 2.00 p.m. from Tuesday to Thursday. An e-mail will be circulated to all occupants of the building prior to the facility opening.

Cytunwyd â Swyddfa’r Post y caiff is-swyddfa bost ei sefydlu ar lawr gwaelod adeilad y Cynulliad ym Mae Caerdydd. Nid yw’r trefniadau wedi’u cwblhau eto a bydd y dyddiad agor yn dibynnu ar dderbyn a gosod systemau technoleg gwybodaeth Swyddfa’r Post. Disgwyliaf y bydd gwasanaeth cyfyngedig ar gael cyn Nadolig ac y bydd y gwasanaeth yn llawn weithredol yn y flwyddyn newydd. Disgwyliwn i’r gwasanaeth fod ar gael rhwng 12.00 p.m. a 2.00 p.m. ar y dechrau o ddydd Mawrth i ddydd Iau. Caiff neges e-bost ei hanfon at bawb sy’n gweithio yn yr adeilad cyn i’r gwasanaeth ddechrau.

William Graham spoken in English p. 23

William Graham siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 23

Does this mean that there will be a reduction in the number of rooms available for the use of Members, particularly those of party business managers?

A olyga hyn y bydd llai o ystafelloedd ar gael at ddefnydd yr Aelodau, yn enwedig ystafelloedd rheolwyr busnes y pleidiau?

John Marek The Deputy Presiding Officer spoken in English p. 23

John Marek Y Dirprwy Lywydd siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 23

There will be a reduction, but we believe that we will manage. I am grateful to party business managers for adjusting their use of rooms in the fairly limited space that we have in Crickhowell House. We are sure that we will be able to manage the reduction and provide the post office facility at the same time.

Bydd llai o ystafelloedd ar gael, ond credwn y byddwn yn ymdopi â hyn. Yr wyf yn ddiolchgar i reolwyr busnes y pleidiau am addasu eu defnydd o ystafelloedd yn y lle gweddol gyfyngedig sydd gennym yn Nhŷ Crucywel. Yr ydym yn siŵr y gallwn lwyddo i leihau nifer yr ystafelloedd sydd ar gael a darparu swyddfa bost ar yr un pryd.

Rosemary Butler spoken in English p. 24

Rosemary Butler siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 24

I congratulate you, Deputy Presiding Officer, on finding room for this post office. It is important. Can you assure me that you will also find a permanent room for the Welsh language tutor for Assembly Members? We never know where our Welsh lessons will be held. Now that you have managed to find room for the post office, can you please find a permanent room for Welsh lessons?

Hoffwn eich llongyfarch, Ddirprwy Lywydd, ar neilltuo ystafell ar gyfer y swyddfa bost hon. Mae’n bwysig. A allwch roi sicrwydd imi y byddwch yn neilltuo ystafell barhaol ar gyfer y tiwtor sy’n dysgu Cymraeg i Aelodau’r Cynulliad hefyd? Ni wyddom byth ble y caiff ein gwersi Cymraeg eu cynnal. Gan eich bod wedi llwyddo i neilltuo ystafell ar gyfer y swyddfa bost, a fyddech cystal â neilltuo ystafell barhaol ar gyfer y gwersi Cymraeg?

John Marek The Deputy Presiding Officer spoken in English p. 24

John Marek Y Dirprwy Lywydd siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 24

Finding a room for the post office depended on the four party business managers, whose goodwill enabled us to secure that facility. The Welsh tutor uses a private dining room at the moment. As a result of your comments, Rosemary, I will speak to her and, if necessary, take the matter to the House Committee in order to rectify any shortcomings in provision.

Yr oedd neilltuo ystafell ar gyfer y swyddfa bost yn dibynnu ar reolwyr busnes y pedair plaid, a thrwy eu hewyllys da hwy fe sicrhawyd y cyfleuster hwnnw. Mae’r tiwtor Cymraeg yn defnyddio ystafell fwyta breifat ar hyn o bryd. O ganlyniad i’ch sylwadau, Rosemary, byddaf yn siarad â hi ac, os bydd angen, byddaf yn codi’r mater ym Mhwyllgor y Tŷ er mwyn unioni unrhyw ddiffygion yn y ddarpariaeth.

Brian Hancock spoken in English p. 24

Brian Hancock siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 24

I support Rosemary’s comments regarding our Welsh tutor, who must feel like a nomad at times. I congratulate you on the post office. In the Assembly’s first months, I raised the question of post and sub-post office services. We must remember that it is a service to Members, staff and visitors. Will you ensure that a full range of services will be available, including the provision of road vehicle taxation on behalf of the Driver and Vehicle Licensing Agency?

Cefnogaf sylwadau Rosemary ynglŷn â thiwtor ein gwersi Cymraeg, sy’n teimlo fel crwydryn ar adegau, mae’n siŵr. Hoffwn eich llongyfarch ar y swyddfa bost. Yn y misoedd cyntaf ar ôl sefydlu’r Cynulliad, codais fater gwasanaethau swyddfeydd post ac is-swyddfeydd post. Rhaid inni gofio mai gwasanaeth i’r Aelodau, y staff ac ymwelwyr yw hwn. A wnewch chi sicrhau y bydd amrywiaeth lawn o wasanaethau ar gael, gan gynnwys y gallu i dalu treth cerbydau’r ffordd ar ran yr Asiantaeth Trwyddedu Gyrwyr a Cherbydau?

Dafydd Elis-Thomas The Presiding Officer spoken in English p. 24

Dafydd Elis-Thomas Y Llywydd siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 24

We expect to provide the following services: express guaranteed mail; parcel stamps; pre-paid postage; redirection of mail; business banking via Girobank, personal banking on behalf of a number of high street banks and building societies; travel insurance; bureau de change; health care in the European Union countries and E111 forms; and matters related to that list. In addition we will investigate whether the post office will be able to license vehicles. There are problems with that because of Post Office rules, but there are ways around them.

Bwriadwn ddarparu’r gwasanaethau canlynol: post sy’n sicr o gyrraedd yn gyflym; stampiau parseli, amlenni rhagdaledig; ailgyfeirio post; gwasanaethau bancio i fusnesau drwy Girobank, gwasanaethau bancio personol ar ran nifer o’r prif fanciau a chymdeithasau adeiladu; yswiriant teithio; bureau de change; gofal iechyd yng ngwledydd yr Undeb Ewropeaidd a ffurflenni E111; a materion sy’n ymwneud â’r rhestr honno. Yn ogystal, byddwn yn ymchwilio i weld a fydd y swyddfa bost yn gallu trwyddedu cerbydau. Mae problemau ynghlwm wrth hynny oherwydd rheolau Swyddfa’r Post, ond gallwn eu datrys.

Brian Hancock a gododd—

Brian Hancock rose—

Dafydd Elis-Thomas The Presiding Officer spoken in English p. 25

Dafydd Elis-Thomas Y Llywydd siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 25

Order. Brian, you have had one supplementary and you have shown a visual aid.

Trefn. Yr ydych wedi cael un cwestiwn atodol, Brian, ac yr ydych wedi dangos cymorth gweledol.

Derbyniadau a Lywyddir gan Aelodau’r Cynulliad

Advertisement of Assembly Member Hosted Receptions

Q2 Richard Edwards spoken in English p. 25

C2 Richard Edwards siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 25

Can the Committee consider public advertisement of Assembly Member hosted receptions at the National Assembly for Wales on the plasma screen in the Assembly milling area? (OAQ13388)

A all y Pwyllgor ystyried hysbysebu derbyniadau a lywyddir gan Aelodau’r Cynulliad yng Nghynulliad Cenedlaethol Cymru ar y sgrîn blasma sydd yn Neuadd y Cynulliad? (OAQ13388)

I need to use my visual aid.

Mae angen imi ddefnyddio fy nghymorth gweledol.

John Marek The Deputy Presiding Officer spoken in English p. 25

John Marek Y Dirprwy Lywydd siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 25

Assembly Member hosted receptions in the Assembly can be advertised on the rolling plasma screen if Members provide a short description of the event in Welsh and English to Presiding Office staff before the end of the day preceding the event.

Gellir hysbysebu derbyniadau a lywyddir gan Aelodau’r Cynulliad yn y Cynulliad ar y sgrîn blasma symudol os rhydd yr Aelodau ddisgrifiad byr o’r digwyddiad yn Gymraeg a Saesneg i Swyddfa’r Llywydd cyn diwedd y diwrnod cyn y digwyddiad.

Richard Edwards spoken in English p. 25

Richard Edwards siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 25

Thank you for your response and I look forward to this positive development.

Diolch am eich ymateb ac edrychaf ymlaen at y datblygiad cadarnhaol hwn.

Ystafell ar Gyfer Myfyrdod neu Addoliad

A Room for Reflection or Worship

Q3 Jonathan Morgan spoken in English p. 25

C3 Jonathan Morgan siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 25

What progress has been made in establishing a room for reflection or worship within the National Assembly building? (OAQ13389)

Pa gamau a gymerwyd i neilltuo ystafell ar gyfer myfyrdod neu addoliad yn adeilad y Cynulliad Cenedlaethol? (OAQ13389)

Dafydd Elis-Thomas The Presiding Officer spoken in English p. 25

Dafydd Elis-Thomas Y Llywydd siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 25

I refer to the answer that I gave your colleague, David Melding, on 12 July 2001. I can add nothing further. No-one has approached me with a suggestion for allocating a particular room, and we are all dependent on the Executive for progress on the construction of the new building.

Cyfeiriaf at yr ateb a roddodd eich cyd-Aelod, David Melding, ar 12 Gorffennaf 2001. Ni allaf ychwanegu dim ato. Nid oes neb wedi dod ataf i awgrymu neilltuo ystafell benodol ac mae pob un ohonom yn dibynnu ar y Weithrediaeth i gymryd camau o ran adeiladu’r adeilad newydd.

Jonathan Morgan spoken in English p. 25

Jonathan Morgan siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 25

I am disappointed with that reply. It is not in the spirit of what was expressed many months ago or, particularly when we were establishing this building, when we were told that a room for reflection or worship would be provided. It seems that you can find a room for a post office but not one for quiet reflection.

Mae’r ateb hwnnw wedi’m siomi. Nid yw’n gydnaws â’r hyn a fynegwyd sawl mis yn ôl neu, yn benodol pan oeddem yn sefydlu’r adeilad hwn, pan ddywedwyd wrthym y byddai ystafell yn cael ei neilltuo ar gyfer myfyrdod neu addoliad. Ymddengys eich bod yn gallu neilltuo ystafell ar gyfer swyddfa bost ond ni allwch neilltuo ystafell ar gyfer myfyrdod tawel.

John Marek The Deputy Presiding Officer spoken in English p. 26

John Marek Y Dirprwy Lywydd siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 26

Let me remind you of what I said on 12 July. I said that I appreciated the value of such a room for quiet contemplation, and that the House Committee had considered the matter—

Gadewch imi eich atgoffa o’r hyn a ddywedais ar 12 Gorffennaf. Dywedais imi werthfawrogi gwerth ystafell o’r fath ar gyfer myfyrdod tawel, a bod Pwyllgor y Tŷ wedi ystyried y mater —

Dafydd Elis-Thomas The Presiding Officer spoken in English p. 26

Dafydd Elis-Thomas Y Llywydd siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 26

Order. I would appreciate some quiet contemplation in this Chamber.

Trefn. Byddwn yn gwerthfawrogi ychydig o fyfyrdod tawel yn y Siambr hon.

John Marek The Deputy Presiding Officer spoken in English p. 26

John Marek Y Dirprwy Lywydd siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 26

The House Committee considered the matter and accepted it in principle. I said that consideration would be given to making space available once the new building is open. Meanwhile, if Members have any suggestions as to where we can locate a room for contemplation here, then I would welcome them. I have not received any suggestions so far.

Ystyriwyd y mater gan Bwyllgor y Tŷ ac fe’i derbyniwyd mewn egwyddor. Dywedais y byddem yn ystyried neilltuo lle ar ôl agor yr adeilad newydd. Yn y cyfamser, os bydd unrhyw awgrymiadau gan yr Aelodau ynglŷn â pha ystafell yn yr adeilad hwn y gallem ei neilltuo ar gyfer myfyrdod, yna byddwn yn eu croesawu. Ni chefais unrhyw awgrymiadau hyd yma.

Lorraine Barrett spoken in English p. 26

Lorraine Barrett siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 26

John, do you agree that, if the Conservatives supported the new debating Chamber project, then we could have a room for reflection? Meanwhile, if they would like to come to my office and listen to a nice and relaxing Classic FM CD, they are more than welcome.

John, a gytunwch y gallem gael ystafell ar gyfer myfyrdod pe bai’r Ceidwadwyr yn cefnogi prosiect y Siambr ddadlau newydd? Yn y cyfamser, os hoffent ddod i’m swyddfa i wrando ar gryno ddisg Classic FM ymlaciol hyfryd, mae croeso iddynt wneud hynny.

John Marek The Deputy Presiding Officer spoken in English p. 26

John Marek Y Dirprwy Lywydd siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 26

There is some inescapable logic in your comment, Lorraine, but it is a matter for the Conservative Party.

Mae rhyw fath o resymeg anochel yn yr hyn a ddywedasoch, Lorraine, ond mater i’r Blaid Geidwadol yw hwnnw.

David Lloyd siaradwyd yn Gymraeg t. 26

David Lloyd spoken in Welsh p. 26

I ymddifrifoli, a fyddai John yn cytuno bod materion ysbrydol neu fyfyrdod yn rhan annatod o’n bywydau beunyddiol ac y dylai, felly, lywio ein hymddygiad bob dydd yn y Cynulliad? Ni allwn gyfyngu ein hymddygiad ysbrydol i un ystafell.

On a more serious note, would John agree that spiritual matters and contemplation are an integral part of our daily lives and should therefore guide our everyday conduct in the Assembly? We cannot restrict our spiritual conduct to one room.

John Marek The Deputy Presiding Officer spoken in English p. 26

John Marek Y Dirprwy Lywydd siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 26

I agree and, despite the exchanges, it is a serious matter. The House Committee wants to provide a room for contemplation as soon as it can find a location for it.

Cytunaf ac, er gwaethaf y sylwadau, mae’n fater difrifol. Mae Pwyllgor y Tŷ am neilltuo ystafell ar gyfer myfyrdod cyn gynted ag y gall ddod o hyd i leoliad ar ei chyfer.

Janice Gregory spoken in English p. 27

Janice Gregory siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 27

John, do you share my concern and disappointment that, after all the representations made to House Committee members on personal banking facilities for Members, the Conservatives are pouring scorn this morning on the Committee’s decision and the hard work that went into finding a room for the post office?

John, a rannwch fy mhryder a’m siom bod y Ceidwadwyr, ar ôl yr holl sylwadau a wnaethpwyd i aelodau Pwyllgor y Tŷ ynglŷn â chyfleusterau bancio i’r Aelodau, y bore yma yn dirmygu penderfyniad y Pwyllgor a’r gwaith caled a wnaethpwyd i neilltuo ystafell ar gyfer swyddfa bost?

Dafydd Elis-Thomas The Presiding Officer spoken in English p. 27

Dafydd Elis-Thomas Y Llywydd siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 27

Order. I am sure that all personal banking happens quietly, but this question is about a quiet room.

Trefn. Yr wyf yn siŵr y cyflawnir pob gwasanaeth bancio personol mewn ffordd dawel, ond mae’r cwestiwn hwn yn ymwneud ag ystafell dawel.

Alun Cairns spoken in English p. 27

Alun Cairns siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 27

I hope to provide a constructive suggestion. The Deputy Presiding Officer knows of the disappointment of the rest of the Chamber that the First Minister holds two posts as Minister for Economic Development and First Minister. Could we therefore use the Minister for Economic Development’s empty room for reflection? [CONSERVATIVE ASSEMBLY MEMBERS: ‘Hear, hear.’]

Gobeithiaf gynnig awgrym adeiladol. Gŵyr y Dirprwy Lywydd am siomedigaeth gweddill y Siambr fod dwy swydd gan Brif Weinidog Cymru sef y Gweinidog dros Ddatblygu Economaidd a’r Prif Weinidog. A allem felly ddefnyddio ystafell wag y Gweinidog dros Ddatblygu Economaidd yn ystafell ar gyfer myfyrdod? [AELODAU CEIDWADOL O’R CYNULLIAD: ‘Clywch, clywch.’]

Dafydd Elis-Thomas The Presiding Officer spoken in English p. 27

Dafydd Elis-Thomas Y Llywydd siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 27

Order. I must maintain some semblance of order. We will move on.

Trefn. Rhaid imi sicrhau bod rhyw fath o drefn. Gadewch inni symud ymlaen.

Gwasanaethau ar Gael ar Fewnrwyd y Senedd

Access to Services Offered by the Parliamentary Intranet Service

Q4 Alison Halford spoken in English p. 27

C4 Alison Halford siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 27

What progress has been made in making available within the Assembly a computer with access to the full breadth of services offered by the parliamentary intranet service, not including the parliamentary online information system? (OAQ13383)

Pa gamau a gymerwyd i neilltuo cyfrifiadur o fewn y Cynulliad a all gynnig holl ystod y gwasanaethau sydd ar gael ar fewnrwyd y Senedd, ac eithrio system gwybodaeth seneddol ar-lein? (OAQ13383)

John Marek The Deputy Presiding Officer spoken in English p. 27

John Marek Y Dirprwy Lywydd siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 27

As I mentioned in my reply to your previous question on 22 March, the main concern affecting access to this service is the House of Commons’ need to maintain the security of its system.

Fel y crybwyllais yn fy ateb i’ch cwestiwn blaenorol ar 22 Mawrth, y prif bryder o ran mynediad i’r gwasanaeth hwn yw angen Tŷ’r Cyffredin i sicrhau bod ei system yn ddiogel.

Access to the service was one of several matters discussed by the Presiding Office at a meeting with colleagues from the House of Commons in July. Before we proceeded with the technical aspects, the House of Commons sought assurance that only authorised members of Assembly staff would be allowed access to its system and that such access would be monitored. The Assembly subsequently provided written confirmation and the Presiding Office is now working with the House of Commons to finalise the arrangements.

Mynediad i’r gwasanaeth hwn oedd un o nifer o faterion a drafodwyd gan Swyddfa’r Llywydd mewn cyfarfod gyda chyd-aelodau o Dŷ’r Cyffredin ym mis Gorffennaf. Cyn bwrw ymlaen â’r agweddau technegol, gofynnodd Tŷ’r Cyffredin am sicrhad mai dim ond aelodau awdurdodedig o staff y Cynulliad fyddai’n cael mynediad i’w system ac y byddem yn monitro mynediad o’r fath. Wedi hynny, cadarnhaodd y Cynulliad hynny’n ysgrifenedig ac mae Swyddfa’r Llywydd wrthi’n cydweithio â Thŷ’r Cyffredin i gwblhau’r trefniadau.

Alison Halford spoken in English p. 28

Alison Halford siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 28

Progress is being made. However, if further access to the parliamentary intranet service is allowed, I remind you that my staff in Delyn need a printer system that does not crash all the time. It disrupts the work of a busy constituency office and the system can crash as often as six times a month. When can we have an assurance that the Assembly’s computer system will match the reliability of that in another place?

Mae’r gwaith yn mynd rhagddo. Fodd bynnag, os caniateir mynediad pellach i’r gwasanaethau sydd ar gael ar fewnrwyd y Senedd, fe’ch atgoffaf fod angen i’m staff yn Nelyn gael system agraffu nad yw’n methu drwy’r amser. Mae’n amharu ar waith swyddfa etholaethol brysur a gall y system fethu gymaint â chwe gwaith y mis. Pryd y cawn sicrwydd y bydd system gyfrifiadurol y Cynulliad mor ddibynadwy â system mewn lle arall?

John Marek The Deputy Presiding Officer spoken in English p. 28

John Marek Y Dirprwy Lywydd siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 28

We need to be careful before we compare our system with that of the House of Commons, which is much newer but was, until recently, inefficient. That is a slightly different question. Access to the House of Commons’ intranet will only be possible via the Library in Crickhowell House. However, as I have said before, if you have any problems, or if your assistant has problems in the constituency office, come to see me and we will do all that we can to sort them out.

Mae angen inni fod yn ofalus cyn inni gymharu ein system ni â system Tŷ’r Cyffredin, sy’n fwy newydd ond a oedd, tan yn ddiweddar, yn aneffeithlon. Mae’r cwestiwn hwnnw ychydig yn wahanol. Dim ond drwy Lyfrgell Tŷ Crucywel y bydd yn bosibl cael mynediad i fewnrwyd Tŷ’r Cyffredin. Fodd bynnag, fel y dywedais o’r blaen, os bydd unrhyw broblemau gennych, neu os bydd unrhyw broblemau gan eich cynorthwy-ydd yn y swyddfa etholaethol, dylech ddod i’m gweld a gwnawn bopeth o fewn ein gallu i geisio eu datrys.

John Griffiths spoken in English p. 28

John Griffiths siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 28

As regards information and communications technology, will the House Committee consider getting better translation headphones for use in Committees? There are health concerns about the effects of radiation on the brain and the current headphones may not be the best in that regard. My concern was increased in this Chamber recently when David Davies sounded measured, balanced and reasonable—[Laughter.]

O ran technoleg gwybodaeth a chyfathrebu, a fydd Pwyllgor y Tŷ yn ystyried cael clustffonau cyfieithu gwell i’w defnyddio mewn Pwyllgorau? Mae pryderon iechyd am effeithiau ymbelydredd ar yr ymennydd ac efallai nad y clustffonau presennol yw’r rhai gorau yn hynny o beth. Yr oeddwn yn fwy pryderus byth yn y Siambr hon yn ddiweddar pan oedd David Davies yn swnion’n bwyllog, ystyriol a rhesymol—[Chwerthin.]

Dafydd Elis-Thomas The Presiding Officer spoken in English p. 28

Dafydd Elis-Thomas Y Llywydd siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 28

Order. I do not know what the problem is with questions this morning, but this question is not about headphones. I am sure that the Deputy Presiding Officer will note your comment.

Trefn. Ni wn beth sy’n bod ar y cwestiynau y bore yma, ond nid yw’r cwestiwn hwn yn ymwneud â chlustffonau. Yr wyf yn siŵr y bydd y Dirprwy Lywydd yn nodi eich sylwadau.

Ailgylchu Gwastraff a gynhyrchir yn Nhŷ Crucywel

Recycling of Waste from Crickhowell House

Q5 Peter Black spoken in English p. 29

C5 Peter Black siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 29

How much of the waste generated in Crickhowell House is recycled? (OAQ13386)

Faint o’r gwastraff a gynhyrchir yn Nhŷ Crucywel sy’n cael ei ailgylchu? (OAQ13386)

John Marek The Deputy Presiding Officer spoken in English p. 29

John Marek Y Dirprwy Lywydd siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 29

Approximately 22 per cent of waste, by weight, is recycled by us at source. The remaining 78 per cent is collected by Cardiff City and County Council, but I understand that the recycling figures for that waste leave something to be desired.

Caiff tua 22 y cant o wastraff, yn ôl pwysau, ei ailgylchu gennym o’r cychwyn. Caiff y 78 y cant arall ei gasglu gan Gyngor Dinas a Sir Caerdydd, ond deallaf fod y ffigurau ailgylchu ar gyfer y gwastraff hwnnw ymhell o fod yn foddhaol.

Peter Black spoken in English p. 29

Peter Black siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 29

Could a proper analysis be made of the waste we generate in Crickhowell House and an attempt be made to increase the amount recycled, by providing additional receptacles for different types of waste, thus separating that waste at source and sparing Cardiff City and County Council the burden of removing it?

A ellid dadansoddi’r gwastraff a gynhyrchir yn Nhŷ Crucywel mewn ffordd briodol a cheisio sicrhau bod mwy o wastraff yn cael ei ailgylchu, drwy roi biniau ychwanegol ar gyfer mathau gwahanol o wastraff, er mwyn gwahanu’r gwastraff o’r cychwyn fel nad oes yn rhaid i Gyngor Dinas a Sir Caerdydd ei gasglu?

John Marek The Deputy Presiding Officer spoken in English p. 29

John Marek Y Dirprwy Lywydd siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 29

There is a commitment to try to increase recycling by 2 per cent each year, which we are actively pursuing. However, that depends upon all of us ensuring that recyclable materials are placed in the proper receptacles.

Yr ydym wedi ymrwymo i geisio cynyddu’r hyn a ailgylchir 2 y cant bob blwyddyn, ac yr ydym yn ceisio cyflawni hyn. Fodd bynnag, mae hynny’n dibynnu ar sicrhau bod pawb ohonom yn rhoi deunyddiau y gellir eu hailgylchu yn y biniau cywir.

Cwynion am y Ffreutur

Complaints about the Canteen

Q6 Nick Bourne spoken in English p. 29

C6 Nick Bourne siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 29

On average, how many complaints does the canteen receive in a month? (OAQ13385)

Ar gyfartaledd, faint o gwynion y mae’r ffreutur yn eu derbyn bob mis? (OAQ13385)

John Marek The Deputy Presiding Officer spoken in English p. 29

John Marek Y Dirprwy Lywydd siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 29

No formal written complaints have been received over the past year. On average, four complaints a month are made in person in the canteen.

Ni dderbyniwyd unrhyw gwynion ysgrifenedig ffurfiol yn ystod y flwyddyn ddiwethaf. Ar gyfartaledd, gwneir pedair cwyn y mis i’r ffreutur yn uniongyrchol.

Nick Bourne spoken in English p. 29

Nick Bourne siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 29

You are aware of concerns across the Chamber about hospitality offered in the National Assembly, at least before Lorraine made her kind offer of private hospitality to the background of Classic FM. I shall see her later about that. [Laughter.] We were told today by our resident epicurean on the catering sub-committee, David Melding, that the chair of that sub-committee, Edwina Hart, exploded at the last meeting over concerns about range and quality in the canteen. Not seeing her here today, I am worried that that might be literally true. We have excellent staff in the canteen, but can you assure us that there will be a greater range and better quality of food in future, so that we can bring people here as guests?

Yr ydych yn ymwybodol o’r pryderon ar draws y Siambr am y lletygarwch a gynigir yn y Cynulliad Cenedlaethol, o leiaf cyn i Lorraine fod mor garedig â chynnig lletygarwch preifat gyda Classic FM yn y cefndir. Af i’w gweld yn ddiweddarach am hynny. [Chwerthin.] Dywedwyd wrthym heddiw gan ein hepiciwriad preswyl ar yr is-bwyllgor arlwyo, David Melding, i gadeirydd yr is-bwyllgor hwnnw, Edwina Hart, ffrwydro yn y cyfarfod diwethaf ynglŷn â phryderon am amrywiaeth ac ansawdd bwyd y ffreutur. Gan nad wyf yn ei gweld yma heddiw, pryderaf y gallai hynny fod yn llythrennol wir. Mae gennym staff ardderchog yn y ffreutur, ond a allwch roi sicrwydd inni y bydd amrywiaeth gwell a bwyd o ansawdd gwell yn y dyfodol, fel y gallwn wahodd pobl yma?

John Marek The Deputy Presiding Officer spoken in English p. 30

John Marek Y Dirprwy Lywydd siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 30

I agree with your aims and the progress that you would like to see in having a wider range available in the canteen. In the first instance it is a matter for the catering sub-committee and its chair, Edwina. I know that she takes a great interest in these matters. Since April 2001 there has been a comment book in the canteen and I urge Members to write their comments there, rather than making them verbally, so that there is a record and trail of suggestions that can be accessed by the catering sub-committee.

Cytunaf â’ch nodau a’r cynnydd yr hoffech ei weld o ran sicrhau bod amrywiaeth ehangach o fwyd ar gael yn y ffreutur. Mater i’r is-bwyllgor arlwyo a’i gadeirydd, Edwina, ydyw yn y lle cyntaf. Gwn ei bod yn ymddiddori llawer yn y materion hyn. Ers Ebrill 2001, bu llyfr sylwadau yn y ffreutur ac anogaf yr Aelodau i ysgrifennu eu sylwadau ynddo, yn hytrach na’u nodi ar lafar, fel bod cofnod o awgrymiadau ar gael, y gall yr is-bwyllgor arlwyo eu darllen.

If Members have any suggestions apart from comments about what is served in the canteen, members of the catering sub-committee and the House Committee would be grateful to receive them.

Os bydd gan yr Aelodau unrhyw awgrymiadau ar wahân i sylwadau am y bwyd sydd ar gael yn y ffreutur, byddai aelodau o’r is-bwyllgor arlwyo a Phwyllgor y Tŷ yn ddiolchgar i’w cael.

David Davies spoken in English p. 30

David Davies siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 30

I am concerned about the so-called theme days that take place in the canteen. I do not wish to be a killjoy, but it seems to me that if there are visiting parties of business people, who may be thinking about investing in your constituency, it is somewhat inappropriate to have people walking around as if they have just come off the set of Mother Goose or Widow Twanky.

Pryderaf am y diwrnodau thema bondigrybwyll a gynhelir yn y ffreutur. Nid wyf am ddifetha’r hwyl, ond ymddengys imi ei fod braidd yn amhriodol bod pobl yn cerdded o amgylch fel petaent newydd adael set Mother Goose neu Widow Twanky pan fydd grwpiau o bobl busnes yn ymweld â ni, pobl a allai fod yn ystyried buddsoddi yn eich etholaeth.

John Marek The Deputy Presiding Officer spoken in English p. 30

John Marek Y Dirprwy Lywydd siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 30

I will not comment on that. It is a matter for the individual Member. There is a difference—which is appreciated by the chair of the catering sub-committee—between the service that the Members want provided, and that provided for the staff. There may be differential costs, but the catering sub-committee is going to explore this matter.

Ni ddywedaf ddim am hynny. Mater i’r Aelod unigol ydyw. Mae gwahaniaeth—a ddeellir gan gadeirydd yr is-bwyllgor arlwyo—rhwng y gwasanaeth y mae’r Aelodau am ei gael, a’r gwasanaeth a ddarperir i’r staff. Efallai fod costau gwahaniaethol, ond bydd yr is-bwyllgor arlwyo yn archwilio’r mater hwn.

Asesiadau Iechyd a Diogelwch

Health and Safety Assessments

Q7 David Melding spoken in English p. 30

C7 David Melding siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 30

Will the Committee make a statement on the extent and frequency of health and safety assessments in the National Assembly for Wales? (OAQ13534)

A wnaiff y Pwyllgor ddatganiad ar fanylder yr asesiadau iechyd a diogelwch a gynhelir yng Nghynulliad Cenedlaethol Cymru a pha mor aml y maent yn cael eu cynnal? (OAQ13534)

John Marek The Deputy Presiding Officer spoken in English p. 31

John Marek Y Dirprwy Lywydd siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 31

The Presiding Office is commencing a rolling annual programme—[Interruption.]

Mae Swyddfa’r Llywydd yn dechrau rhaglen dreigl flynyddol—[Torri ar draws.]

Dafydd Elis-Thomas The Presiding Officer spoken in English p. 31

Dafydd Elis-Thomas Y Llywydd siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 31

Order. I know that there is a relaxed atmosphere this morning, for some inexplicable reason, but we should listen to the Deputy Presiding Officer’s excellent words at all times.

Trefn. Gwn fod awyrgylch hamddenol y bore yma am ryw reswm na ellir ei esbonio, ond dylem wrando ar eiriau gwych y Dirprwy Lywydd bob amser.

John Marek The Deputy Presiding Officer spoken in English p. 31

John Marek Y Dirprwy Lywydd siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 31

The Presiding Office is commencing a rolling annual programme of monthly health and safety assessments and inspections of individual floors and sections of the Assembly buildings in Cardiff Bay this month. The inspections will be carried out by the health and safety officer, accommodation staff, maintenance staff and a representative of the civil service trade unions. Any necessary remedial actions that might be identified will be implemented as soon as possible. I congratulate you, David, on your serendipity.

Mae Swyddfa’r Llywydd yn dechrau rhaglen dreigl flynyddol o asesiadau ac archwiliadau iechyd a diogelwch o loriau ac adrannau unigol adeiladau’r Cynulliad ym Mae Caerdydd y mis hwn. Caiff yr archwiliadau eu cynnal gan y swyddog iechyd a diogelwch, staff adeiladau ac ystafelloedd, staff cynnal a chadw a chynrychiolydd undebau llafur y gwasanaeth sifil. Caiff unrhyw gamau sydd eu hangen i wella’r sefyllfa eu cymryd cyn gynted â phosibl. Hoffwn eich llongyfarch, David, ar eich serendipedd.

David Melding spoken in English p. 31

David Melding siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 31

You may know that many of the lavatories in this building have doors to the anterooms, which open against the doors to the lavatories proper. Therefore, when people ingress and egress the lavatories, they are at great risk of serious physical injury. Do you agree that to be squashed in a lavatory’s narthex would be a catastrophe and an indignity?

Efallai y gwyddoch fod gan lawer o’r toiledau yn yr adeilad hwn ddrysau sy’n arwain at y rhagystafelloedd, sy’n agor yn erbyn y drysau i’r toiledau eu hunain. Felly, pan fydd pobl yn mynd i mewn ac allan o’r toiledau, maent mewn perygl mawr o gael niwed corfforol difrifol. A gytunwch y byddai’n drychineb ac yn warth pe baech yn cael eich gwasgu mewn narthecs toiled?

John Marek The Deputy Presiding Officer spoken in English p. 31

John Marek Y Dirprwy Lywydd siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 31

I shall have this matter examined, but there are other considerations, such as fire precautions. However, subject to that, I will consider what can be done.

Byddaf yn sicrhau y caiff y mater hwn ei archwilio, ond mae pethau eraill i’w hystyried, megis rhagofalon tân. Fodd bynnag, yn amodol ar hynny, byddaf yn ystyried yr hyn y gellir ei wneud.

Brian Hancock spoken in English p. 31

Brian Hancock siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 31

On health and safety assessments, will you provide Members with instruction in health and safety management for their staff?

O ran yr asesiadau iechyd a diogelwch, a fyddwch yn rhoi hyfforddiant i’r Aelodau ynglŷn â rheoli iechyd a diogelwch eu staff?

John Marek The Deputy Presiding Officer spoken in English p. 31

John Marek Y Dirprwy Lywydd siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 31

Members have to take responsibility for their own staff, but it is right that facilities be made available, such as health and safety courses, for Members who wish to attend them. I will see if that can be organised. On Assembly staff, the law is obeyed in the building and health and safety monitoring exists.

Rhaid i’r Aelodau fod yn gyfrifol am eu staff eu hunain, ond mae’n briodol sicrhau bod cyfleusterau ar gael, megis cyrsiau iechyd a diogelwch, ar gyfer yr Aelodau sydd am eu mynychu. Byddaf yn gweld a ellir trefnu hynny. O ran staff y Cynulliad, gweithredir yn ôl y gyfraith yn yr adeilad a chaiff materion iechyd a diogelwch eu monitro.

Pwyntiau o Drefn

Points of Order

Peter Black spoken in English p. 32

Peter Black siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 32

Point of order. In some councils, if a member’s mobile phone rings, the guilty party is required to make a donation to the mayor’s charity. Given that a phone rang to my right during questions earlier, will you consider introducing a similar system here?

Pwynt o drefn. Mewn rhai cynghorau, mae’n rhaid i unrhyw aelod y mae ei ffôn symudol yn canu yn ystod cyfarfod, wneud rhodd i elusen y maer. O gofio i ffôn ddechrau canu wrth fy ochr dde yn ystod y cwestiynau yn gynharach, a wnewch chi ystyried cyflwyno system debyg yma?

Dafydd Elis-Thomas The Presiding Officer spoken in English p. 32

Dafydd Elis-Thomas Y Llywydd siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 32

I did not hear anything.

Ni chlywais ddim byd.

David Davies spoken in English p. 32

David Davies siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 32

Further to that point of order, I agree with Peter Black. It is an excellent idea and as one of the guilty parties, although not on this occasion, I would be happy to start the ball rolling.

Ymhellach i’r pwynt hwnnw o drefn, cytunaf â Peter Black. Mae’n syniad rhagorol ac fel un o’r rhai a dramgwyddodd, er nid ar yr achlysur hwn, byddwn yn fwy na pharod i wthio’r cwch i’r dŵr.

Dafydd Elis-Thomas The Presiding Officer spoken in English p. 32

Dafydd Elis-Thomas Y Llywydd siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 32

No, that is not appropriate. That is clear in our agreed procedure in the Chamber, which is on the Chamberweb, and which the Assembly has accepted. Encouraging charitable donations for breaking the order of this Assembly is inappropriate. I take a stern view of these matters.

Na, nid yw hynny’n briodol. Mae gweithdrefn y Siambr y cytunwyd arni, sydd ar we’r Siambr, yn eglur o ran hynny ac mae’r Cynulliad wedi ei derbyn. Mae’n amhriodol annog rhoddion elusennol am fynd yn groes i drefn y Cynulliad hwn. Yr wyf yn llym ar faterion o’r fath.

Ieuan Wyn Jones spoken in English p. 32

Ieuan Wyn Jones siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 32

Point of order. I am sure that you will have noticed that when Jane Hutt answered questions at the beginning of the session not one other Minister was present. Do you regard that as a gross discourtesy to the Assembly, bearing in mind, as I am sure you do, that the Protocol on Conduct in the Chamber states that Members are encouraged to attend Plenary Sessions and should try to give priority to these? Will you remind them of that duty? We do not expect all Cabinet Ministers to be here, but it was embarrassing that although four former Ministers were present, not one current Minister was. Furthermore, when Jane Hutt was answering questions, no-one in charge of Government business was present, therefore had a question been asked on the conduct of Government business, who would have been in charge? It raises a serious question. When the Minister for Assembly Business is not present and no other Minister is present other than the one being questioned, who is then in charge of Government business? Given those circumstances, would it now be appropriate for Andrew Davies to make a statement on that?

Pwynt o drefn. Yr wyf yn siŵr y byddwch wedi sylwi nad oedd yr un Gweinidog arall yn bresennol pan atebodd Jane Hutt gwestiynau ar ddechrau’r Cyfarfod. A ydych o’r farn fod hynny’n anghwrteisi mawr i’r Cynulliad, o gofio, fel yr ydych, mae’n siŵr, fod y Protocol ar Ymddygiad yn y Siambr yn nodi bod yr Aelodau yn cael eu hannog i fynychu’r Cyfarfodydd Llawn ac y dylent geisio rhoi blaenoriaeth iddynt? A wnewch chi eu hatgoffa o’r ddyletswydd honno? Nid oes disgwyl i bob Gweinidog o’r Cabinet fod yn bresennol, ond yr oedd y ffaith mai dim ond pedwar cyn-Weinidog oedd yn bresennol, a dim un o’r Gweinidogion cyfredol, yn gywilyddus. At hynny, pan oedd Jane Hutt yn ateb cwestiynau, nid oedd neb â chyfrifoldeb dros fusnes y Llywodraeth yn bresennol, felly pe bai un o’r Aelodau wedi gofyn cwestiwn ynghylch busnes y Llywodraeth, pwy fyddai wedi bod yn gyfrifol? Cyfyd cwestiwn difrifol. Pan nad yw’r Trefnydd yn bresennol nac unrhyw Weinidog arall heblaw’r un sy’n ateb cwestiynau, pwy felly sy’n gyfrifol am fusnes y Llywodraeth? O ystyried yr amgylchiadau hynny, a fyddai’n briodol yn awr i Andrew Davies wneud datganiad ar hyn?

Dafydd Elis-Thomas The Presiding Officer spoken in English p. 33

Dafydd Elis-Thomas Y Llywydd siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 33

Members are encouraged to attend Plenary sessions in our codes of conduct and protocols. That applies to all Assembly Members and I would encourage attendance. I will not comment on a particular Plenary session because there are occasions when all of us have other business to attend to. On the running of Government business in this Chamber, as far as my office and the Cabinet Secretariat are concerned, we have what I hope is a good relationship with all the party business managers, but particularly with the business manager of the governing coalition. We need that relationship to maintain the order of business. I have no difficulty with that relationship. The Minister for Assembly Business has heard this point of order. It is clear that the leader of the opposition is planning for government, as leaders of the opposition always do, and is already laying down the parameters for his business manager’s constant presence on the government bench.

Anogir yr Aelodau i fynychu Cyfarfodydd Llawn yn ein codau a’n protocolau sy’n ymwneud ag ymddygiad. Mae’n berthnasol i bob Aelod o’r Cynulliad ac anogaf yr Aelodau yn hynny o beth. Ni wnaf sylwadau ar Gyfarfod Llawn unigol am fod adegau pan fo busnes arall gan bawb ohonom. O ran rhedeg busnes y Llywodraeth yn y Siambr hon, mae gan fy swyddfa i ac Ysgrifenyddiaeth y Cabinet berthynas dda, gobeithio, â rheolwyr busnes y pleidiau, ond yn arbennig gyda threfnydd y glymblaid lywodraethol. Mae angen y berthynas honno arnom i gynnal trefn y busnes. Nid oes unrhyw anawsterau yn y berthynas honno o’m rhan i. Clywodd y Trefnydd y pwynt hwn o drefn. Mae’n amlwg bod arweinydd yr wrthblaid yn paratoi at fod mewn llywodraeth, fel y gwna pob arweinydd gwrthblaid, a’i fod eisoes yn dweud y drefn am sut y bydd ei drefnydd yntau bob amser yn bresennol ar fainc y llywodraeth.

Glyn Davies spoken in English p. 33

Glyn Davies siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 33

Further to this point of order, Llywydd, I understand that in another political institution, when the front bench is unprotected, it is the practice for other members in the Chamber to take over that position. On a previous occasion, no Minister at all was present. At least we had one Minister present today. Would it be in order for me to move into the First Minister’s seat when no Ministers are here?

Ymhellach i’r pwynt hwnnw o drefn, Lywydd, deallaf ei fod yn arferol mewn sefydliad gwleidyddol arall i aelodau eraill yn y Siambr fynd i eistedd ar y fainc flaen pan fo’n wag. Ar achlysur arall, nid oedd yr un Gweinidog yn bresennol. Yr oedd un Gweinidog o leiaf yn bresennol heddiw. A fyddai mewn trefn i mi symud i sedd Prif Weinidog Cymru pan na fo’r Gweinidogion yn bresennol?

Dafydd Elis-Thomas The Presiding Officer spoken in English p. 33

Dafydd Elis-Thomas Y Llywydd siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 33

From my recollection of Westminster, I do not think that it is a practice; it is usually a political stunt.

Os cofiaf drefn San Steffan yn iawn, ni chredaf ei fod yn arferiad. Rhyw fath o ystryw wleidyddol ydyw gan amlaf.

Datganiad ar Dechnoleg Band Llydan

Statement on Broadband Technology

Andrew Davies The Minister for Assembly Business spoken in English p. 34

Andrew Davies Y Trefnydd siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 34

Last week, the First Minister and I announced an initiative to help develop a broadband network to support lifelong learning in Wales. Today, I wish to give you the details behind that major announcement.

Yr wythnos diwethaf, cyhoeddodd Prif Weinidog Cymru a minnau fenter i helpu i ddatblygu rhwydwaith band llydan er mwyn cefnogi dysgu gydol oes yng Nghymru. Heddiw hoffwn roi’r manylion ichi ynglŷn â’r cyhoeddiad pwysig hwnnw.

The Assembly will provide £18.4 million this year, and £6 million in subsequent years, to stimulate the creation of a broadband lifelong learning network in Wales. It will build upon existing public sector infrastructure to provide high-speed network connections and internet access to libraries, schools and information and communications technology learning centres throughout Wales.

Bydd y Cynulliad yn darparu £18.4 miliwn eleni a £6 miliwn mewn blynyddoedd dilynol, i ysgogi’r gwaith o greu rhwydwaith dysgu gydol oes band llydan yng Nghymru. Bydd yn adeiladu ar seilwaith y sector cyhoeddus sy’n bodoli eisoes er mwyn cynnig cysylltiadau rhwydwaith cyflym iawn a mynediad i’r rhyngrwyd mewn llyfrgelloedd, ysgolion a chanolfannau technoleg gwybodaeth a chyfathrebu ledled Cymru.

A sum of £8.5 million this financial year will fund the provision of a core network, which will deliver a point of presence in each local authority. A further £4 million per year will be provided to maintain this facility.

Caiff £8.5 miliwn y flwyddyn ariannol hon ei ddefnyddio i ariannu rhwydwaith craidd, a fydd yn darparu pwynt derbyn ym mhob awdurdod lleol. Caiff £4 miliwn arall y flwyddyn ei ddarparu i gynnal y cyfleuster hwn.

Local authorities will retain responsibility for their network infrastructure. They will ensure that schools, libraries and ICT learning centres are linked into the lifelong learning access point. Support of up to £10 million over three years will be available from the next financial year to assist local authorities in upgrading their existing network infrastructure. That includes the £2.6 million that we will receive from the Department of Trade and Industry. It will complement funding already provided from new opportunities funds and ICT for Learning funding. Over the next two years, local authority unsupported credit approvals can be added to that.

Yr awdurdodau lleol fydd yn gyfrifol o hyd am seilwaith eu rhwydwaith. Byddant yn sicrhau bod ysgolion, llyfrgelloedd a chanolfannau dysgu TGCh wedi’u cysylltu â phwynt mynediad dysgu gydol oes. Bydd hyd at £10 miliwn o gymorth ar gael dros dair blynedd o’r flwyddyn ariannol nesaf i helpu’r awdurdodau lleol i uwchraddio seilwaith eu rhwydweithiau presennol. Mae hynny yn cynnwys y swm o £2.6 miliwn a gawn oddi wrth yr Adran Masnach a Diwydiant. Bydd y swm hwnnw yn ychwanegol at yr arian sydd eisoes ar gael o’r cronfeydd cyfleoedd newydd ac arian TGCh ar gyfer Dysgu. Yn ystod y ddwy flynedd nesaf, gellir ychwanegu cymeradwyaethau credyd diateg awdurdodau lleol at hynny.

Local authorities will also be provided with £9.9 million this financial year to purchase multimedia equipment for classrooms, such as data projectors and electronic whiteboards. That will allow the benefits of broadband to be felt where it matters—in the classroom. It is in addition to the ICT equipment funding already made available to local authorities through the Assembly’s ‘ICT for Learning’ strategy.

Darperir £9.9 miliwn i’r awdurdodau lleol yn ystod y flwyddyn ariannol hon hefyd er mwyn iddynt brynu offer amlgyfrwng, megis taflunyddion data a byrddau gwyn electronig, ar gyfer ystafelloedd dosbarth. Bydd hynny yn fodd i fanteisio i’r eithaf ar fand llydan yn y lle pwysicaf—yr ystafell ddosbarth. Bydd y swm hwn yn ychwanegol at yr arian am offer TGCh sydd eisoes ar gael i’r awdurdodau lleol drwy strategaeth y Cynulliad ar ‘TGCh ar gyfer Dysgu’.

The Assembly will also provide £2 million to ensure the all-important ongoing support and training for users of the lifelong learning network. This will be matched by a further £2 million from Education and Learning Wales.

Bydd y Cynulliad hefyd yn darparu £2 filiwn i sicrhau bod y cymorth a’r hyfforddiant holl bwysig i ddefnyddwyr y rhwydwaith dysgu gydol oes yn parhau. Bydd Dysgu ac Addysgu Cymru yn rhoi £2 filiwn arall i gyfateb â hynny.

For the more technically-minded among us, we are looking for the backbone to deliver 100 megabyte capacity to each local authority. Primary schools should receive around 2 MB and secondary schools 8 MB. I cannot give absolute figures ahead of the network design and procurement exercise, which we will undertake in conjunction with local authorities.

Er gwybodaeth i’r rhai ohonom sydd â thuedd at dechnoleg, ein gobaith yw y bydd y rhwydwaith sylfaenol yn darparu 100 o fegabeitiau i bob awdurdod lleol gan ddarparu tua 2 fegabeit i ysgolion cynradd ac 8 megabeit i ysgolion uwchradd. Ni allaf roi’r union ffigurau cyn i’r broses o gynllunio a phrynu’r rhwydwaith ddechrau. Byddwn yn ymgymryd â’r broses honno mewn cydweithrediad â’r awdurdodau lleol.

Welsh Networking Limited is the new name for the former South Wales and North Wales Metropolitan Area Network and brings further and higher education together. We will work with ELWa and WNL to procure services to form the main backbone of the network. Agreements will be made with each local authority on how and when they will connect each school, and how best to deploy the multimedia equipment. Officials will also work up the support and development framework with ELWa and other key organisations. A workshop for local authorities in Wales has already been arranged in conjunction with Syniad for 6 November.

Rhwydweithio Cymru Cyfyngedig yw’r enw newydd ar Rwydwaith Metropolitan De Cymru a Gogledd Cymru ac mae’n dwyn ynghyd addysg bellach ac addysg uwch. Byddwn yn gweithio gydag ELWa a Rhwydweithio Cymru Cyfyngedig i brynu’r gwasanaethau a fydd yn asgwrn cefn y rhwydwaith. Deuir i gytundeb â phob un o’r awdurdodau lleol ar sut a phryd y bydd yn cysylltu â’r ysgolion a’r ffordd orau o ddefnyddio’r offer amlgyfrwng. Bydd y swyddogion hefyd yn datblygu’r fframwaith cymorth a datblygu ar y cyd ag ELWa a sefydliadau allweddol eraill. Trefnwyd gweithdy eisoes ar gyfer awdurdodau lleol yng Nghymru mewn cydweithrediad â Syniad ar 6 Tachwedd.

This is the first step towards what will be a multi-faceted approach in delivering broadband capability throughout Wales. Last week, colleagues asked me why we had allegedly removed the commitment to aggregate public sector broadband from the national economic development strategy. Let me reinforce the points I made then. Cymru Ar-lein, which was approved by the Assembly in July, makes our commitment clear. I will quote from the executive summary, which states our commitment to ensuring that

Dyma’r cam cyntaf tuag at ffordd amlochrog o ddarparu manteision band llydan ledled Cymru. Yr wythnos diwethaf, gofynnodd fy nghyd-Aelodau imi esbonio pam bod yr ymrwymiad i gyfuno’r galw am fand llydan yn y sector cyhoeddus wedi’i ddileu, yn ôl eu honiad hwy, o’r strategaeth datblygu economaidd genedlaethol. Pwysleisiaf y pwyntiau a wneuthum bryd hynny. Mae Cymru Ar-lein, a gymeradwywyd gan y Cynulliad ym mis Gorffennaf yn nodi ein hymrwymiad yn glir. Dyfynnaf o’r crynodeb gweithredol, sy’n nodi ein hymrwymiad i sicrhau bod:

‘Wales gets the broadband infrastructure it needs, by working to aggregate public sector demand and so stimulate demand for advanced telecommunication services, influencing the UK government and other UK institutions’.

‘Cymru’n cael y seilwaith band eang y mae ei angen, trwy weithio i gyfuno galw’r sector cyhoeddus ac felly ysgogi’r galw am wasanaethau telathrebu uwch, gan ddylanwadu ar lywodraeth y DU a sefydliadau eraill yn y DU’.

That may sound familiar to colleagues. It is a central commitment of this administration, after all. That was the text that had been allegedly deleted from the national economic development strategy. That commitment had already been publicly made. We replaced that text with clear evidence of what we had done to make it so, through the establishment of a lifelong learning network, which the First Minister and I announced last week. That announcement clearly demonstrates that we are no longer simply saying that we will aggregate demand; we are aggregating demand. This progressive programme will not only ensure that the public sector gets the best possible value for money, it will also mean more broadband services being taken up earlier. This increase in demand should stimulate the market, making competition more viable in Wales. This is a highly complex and substantial undertaking. The needs and starting points of organisations such as schools, local authorities, hospitals, libraries, social services and GP practices are different and require correspondingly different, appropriate approaches. Although it will take time, we will do what we can to accelerate the process. That is why we announced our first significant step in aggregating demand and addressing the broader network needs of all public sector locations in Wales.

Efallai bod hynny’n canu cloch gyda’m cyd-Aelodau. Wedi’r cyfan mae’n un o ymrwymiadau canolog y weinyddiaeth hon. Dyna’r geiriau yr honnwyd iddynt gael eu dileu o’r strategaeth datblygu economaidd genedlaethol. Mae’r ymrwymiad hwnnw eisoes ar goedd. Yn lle’r geiriau hynny, rhoesom dystiolaeth glir o’r hyn a wnaethom i wireddu’r gosodiad hwnnw, drwy sefydlu rhwydwaith dysgu gydol oes, a gyhoeddwyd gan Brif Weinidog Cymru a minnau yr wythnos diwethaf. Dengys y cyhoeddiad hwnnw yn glir nad dweud y byddwn yn cyfuno’r galw yr ydym bellach; yr ydym wrthi’n cyfuno’r galw. Bydd y rhaglen flaengar hon yn sicrhau nid yn unig y caiff y sector cyhoeddus y gwerth gorau posibl am ei arian ond bydd hefyd yn fodd i bobl gael gwasanaethau band llydan yn gynharach. Dylai’r galw ychwanegol hwn ysgogi’r farchnad, gan sicrhau y bydd mwy o gystadleuaeth yn bosibl yng Nghymru. Dyma ymrwymiad cymhleth a sylweddol dros ben. Mae anghenion a man cychwyn sefydliadau megis ysgolion, awdurdodau lleol, ysbytai, llyfrgelloedd, gwasanaethau cymdeithasol a meddygfeydd yn wahanol a bydd angen ymateb iddynt mewn ffordd wahanol. Er y cymer hyn amser, byddwn yn gwneud popeth o fewn ein gallu i gyflymu’r broses. Dyna pam ein bod wedi cyhoeddi’r cam pwysig cyntaf tuag at gyfuno’r galw a mynd i’r afael ag anghenion ehangach pob lleoliad sector cyhoeddus yng Nghymru o ran y rhwydwaith.

Why do we feel that broadband is important enough to warrant investing large amounts of time, money and effort, and making it a key part of our national economic development strategy? It is for many of the reasons that I gave when I presented Cymru Ar-Lein in the summer. Broadband facilities are about infrastructure. We need good, appropriately priced infrastructure to allow businesses to use information and communications technology and e-commerce to grow and to innovate. We need it to attract new businesses to Wales and to keep the ones that are already here. We need it in the public sector to allow all aspects of government and public service in Wales—be it local government, ASPBs such as the Wales Tourist Board, ELWa and the Welsh Development Agency, or ourselves—to deliver effective electronic government services. We need it to ensure that our citizens have the best opportunities to develop new skills, to work where they choose and not to feel excluded by a digital divide. Without an affordable state-of-the-art communications infrastructure, Wales will not prosper. With such an infrastructure, one of the most important building blocks for prosperity is in place.

Pam y credwn bod band llydan yn ddigon pwysig i gyfiawnhau neilltuo cryn dipyn o amser, arian ac ymdrech iddo, a’i wneud yn rhan allweddol o’n strategaeth datblygu economaidd genedlaethol? Mae’n bwysig am lawer o’r rhesymau a roddais pan gyflwynais Cymru Ar-Lein yn ystod yr haf. Seilwaith sydd wrth wraidd cyfleusterau band llydan. Mae angen seilwaith da am y pris cywir arnom, a seilwaith sy’n galluogi busnesau i ddefnyddio technoleg gwybodaeth a chyfathrebu ac e-fasnach er mwyn iddynt dyfu ac arloesi. Mae angen iddo ddenu busnesau newydd i Gymru a chadw’r rhai sydd yma eisoes. Mae angen iddo alluogi’r sector cyhoeddus ym mhob agwedd ar lywodraeth a’r gwasanaethau cyhoeddus yng Nghymru—boed hynny mewn llywodraeth leol, cyrff cyhoeddus a noddir gan y Cynulliad megis Bwrdd Croeso Cymru, ELWa ac Awdurdod Datblygu Cymru, neu yn y Cynulliad ei hun—i ddarparu gwasanaethau’r Llywodraeth yn electronig ac effeithiol. Mae ei angen arnom i sicrhau y caiff ein dinasyddion y cyfle gorau i ddatblygu sgiliau newydd, i weithio lle bynnag y mynnont ac i beidio â theimlo eu bod wedi eu hallgáu oherwydd rhaniad digidol. Heb seilwaith cyfathrebu fforddiadwy cyfoes, ni fydd Cymru yn ffynnu. Drwy gyflwyno seilwaith o’r fath, bydd un o’r meini congl pwysicaf ar gyfer ffyniant yn ei le.

This initiative puts us ahead of the game in the UK and in many parts of Europe. It is another example of Wales demonstrating that it can be a small, clever country. However, the Assembly cannot deliver this alone. It requires concerted effort from all our public sector and private sector partners to make this happen effectively. Broadband is one part of the story. The other is ensuring that services are available to make the best use of this facility. It is rather like working with suppliers to ensure that there is a supply of cars once we have built the motorway. I am talking here about developing content as well as developing services. Content includes the rich cultural and heritage content being developed as part of the ‘Gathering the Jewels’ project, led by the National Library of Wales; the advanced telemedicine support facilities; and multimedia digital education material—for example, that being developed by BBC Wales—which allows anyone to learn and understand more quickly and easily, wherever they are located.

Drwy’r fenter hon yr ydym ar y blaen i’r DU ac i sawl rhan o Ewrop. Mae’n enghraifft arall o Gymru yn dangos y gall fod yn wlad fach glyfar. Fodd bynnag, ni all y Cynulliad gyflawni hyn ar ei ben ei hun. Mae’n gofyn am ymdrech ar y cyd gan bob un o’n partneriaid yn y sector cyhoeddus a’r sector preifat er mwyn sicrhau y cyflawnir hyn yn effeithiol. Dim ond hanner y stori yw band llydan. Mae angen sicrhau hefyd fod gwasanaethau ar gael i wneud y defnydd gorau o’r cyfleuster hwn. I raddau, mae’r un peth â gweithio gyda chyflenwyr i sicrhau bod cyflenwad o geir ar gael ar ôl inni adeiladu’r briffordd. Sôn yma am ddatblygu cynnwys yn ogystal â datblygu gwasanaethau yr wyf. Fel rhan o’r cynnwys y mae’r deunydd diwylliannol a threftadol cyfoethog sy’n cael ei ddatblygu fel rhan o brosiect Llyfrgell Genedlaethol Cymru, ‘Gathering the Jewels’; y cyfleusterau cymorth telafeddygaeth ddatblygedig; y deunydd addysg digidol amlgyfrwng—er enghraifft, y deunydd y mae BBC Cymru yn ei ddatblygu—sy’n galluogi pawb i ddysgu a deall yn gyflymach ac yn haws, lle bynnag y bônt.

I have two strong messages to deliver today. First, the Assembly sees the availability of affordable broadband services as crucial to the future economic prosperity of Wales. We will have a multi-faceted approach to stimulate supply and demand to help ensure that that comes about in Wales. Secondly, I made the comparison earlier that motorways and roads are of limited use without cars; I therefore urge teachers, librarians, information specialists, content developers and providers—as well as users—to think about how improvements can be made through the use of broadband. That can be difficult if you have never experienced the benefits of broadband. Experience aids understanding. I have therefore asked my officials to prepare a programme of demonstrations, in conjunction with other partner organisations, that will show leading applications for various user groups. That should stimulate people’s vision of what can be achieved.

Mae gennyf ddwy neges gref i’w cyfleu heddiw. Yn gyntaf, ym marn y Cynulliad mae argaeledd gwasanaethau band llydan fforddiadwy yn hanfodol i ffyniant economaidd Cymru yn y dyfodol. Byddwn yn mynd ati i ysgogi cyflenwad a galw er mwyn helpu i sicrhau y daw hynny i Gymru mewn sawl ffordd. Yn ail, gwneuthum gymhariaeth yn gynharach mai prin yw’r defnydd y gellir ei wneud o briffyrdd a ffyrdd heb geir; felly anogaf athrawon, llyfrgellwyr, arbenigwyr ym maes gwybodaeth, datblygwyr cynnwys a darparwyr—yn ogystal â’r defnyddwyr—i feddwl sut y gellir gwneud gwelliannau drwy ddefnyddio band llydan. Gall fod yn anodd os nad ydych erioed wedi gweld manteision band llydan. Drwy brofiad y ceir dealltwriaeth. Felly gofynnais i’m swyddogion baratoi rhaglen o sesiynau arddangos, mewn cydweithrediad â sefydliadau partneriaid eraill, a fydd yn dangos y prif ddefnyddiau ar gyfer grwpiau gwahanol o ddefnyddwyr. Dylai hynny ysgogi gweledigaeth pobl o’r hyn y gellir ei gyflawni.

Dafydd Elis-Thomas The Presiding Officer spoken in English p. 38

Dafydd Elis-Thomas Y Llywydd siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 38

Before I call Phil Williams—and this is not a reflection on Phil—I remind Assembly Members of our best practice on statements, namely, that I will call, as agreed, one speaker from each party group who will be allowed a succinct preamble, and perhaps a series of questions, but not too many. After each group’s contributions, we will continue with individual questions as if they were supplementary questions during questions to Ministers.

Cyn imi alw ar Phil Williams—ac nid yw hyn yn adlewyrchu ar Phil—hoffwn atgoffa Aelodau’r Cynulliad o’n harfer gorau ar ddatganiadau, sef y galwaf ar un siaradwr, fel y cytunwyd, o bob grŵp plaid. Caiff y siaradwr roi rhagymadrodd byr a gofyn cyfres efallai o gwestiynau, ond nid gormod. Ar ôl cyfraniad pob grŵp, parhawn â’r cwestiynau unigol fel pe baent yn gwestiynau atodol yn ystod cwestiynau i’r Gweinidogion.

Phil Williams spoken in English p. 38

Phil Williams siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 38

Andrew, I agree with your statement, that without an affordable communication infrastructure, Wales will not prosper. However, reading over the Record of Proceedings, I see that I have rarely had an answer to any question I have asked on information and communication technology. It is a technical subject, and I sometimes wonder whether you have always understood the question, so today I will concentrate on money.

Andrew, cytunaf â’ch datganiad na fydd Cymru yn ffynnu oni fydd ganddi seilwaith cyfathrebu fforddiadwy. Fodd bynnag, ar ôl darllen Cofnod y Trafodion, gwelaf mai anaml y cefais ateb i unrhyw gwestiwn a ofynnais ar dechnoleg gwybodaeth a chyfathrebu. Mae’n bwnc technegol, a chredaf weithiau nad ydych wedi deall y cwestiwn bob amser, felly heddiw canolbwyntiaf ar arian.

There has been much talk of £18.4 million for broadband provision. Yesterday a paper discussed by the Economic Development Committee referred to,

Bu cryn sôn am y £18.4 miliwn a ddarperir ar gyfer band llydan. Ddoe cyfeiriodd papur a drafodwyd gan y Pwyllgor Datblygu Economaidd at:

‘an £18.4 million investment package from the Assembly to speed up the introduction of high speed broadband internet services’.

Will you confirm that your statement today implies that only £8.5 million is available for broadband provision to connect schools, and that the remaining £9.9 million is for ephemeral classroom equipment, and that there is no money for investment in a permanent broadband network throughout Wales?

A wnewch chi gadarnhau bod eich datganiad heddiw yn awgrymu mai dim ond £8.5 miliwn sydd ar gael ar gyfer darparu band llydan i gysylltu ysgolion, a bod y £9.9 miliwn sy’n weddill ar gyfer offer byrhoedlog i’r ystafell ddosbarth ac nad oes unrhyw arian i fuddsoddi mewn rhwydwaith band llydan parhaol ledled Cymru?

You also mention £10 million over three years for local authorities. Do you agree, therefore, that we are talking about an investment of some £12 million a year, and that that is inadequate for bridging the gap in connectivity which is building up between Wales and the UK, and between the UK and the rest of Europe. I almost weep when I hear you say that this puts us ahead of the game in the UK and many parts of Europe. We are way behind, as I know from personal experience. Will you explain why, 22 months into Objective 1, no use has yet been made of up to £53 million of Objective 1 funding under priority 2, measure 1 for ICT infrastructure, in order to bridge that gap? I have raised this issue time and again, and made a pest of myself in the Objective 1 Programme Monitoring Committee, Plenary and in the Economic Development Committee. Will you explain why you, as Minister, have done so little to utilise a sum of money which, according to your statement today, is more than five years’ provision? This money could make a difference, but it is only after prolonged nagging and pressure that at last, almost reluctantly, we are getting some moves to use it. It must be a top priority.

Soniwch hefyd am £10 miliwn i’r awdurdodau lleol dros dair blynedd. A gytunwch, felly, ein bod yn sôn am fuddsoddiad o ryw £12 miliwn y flwyddyn, a bod hynny’n annigonol i bontio’r bwlch o ran cysylltedd sy’n datblygu rhwng Cymru a’r DU, a rhwng y DU a gweddill Ewrop. Wylaf bron pan glywaf fod hyn, meddech chi, yn ein rhoi ar y blaen yn y DU ac mewn sawl rhan o Ewrop. Yr ydym ymhell ar ei hôl hi, fel y gwn o brofiad personol. A eglurwch pam, rhyw 22 mis ar ôl i Amcan 1 ddechrau, na ddefnyddiwyd hyd at £53 miliwn o arian Amcan 1 o dan flaenoriaeth 2, mesur 1 ar gyfer seilwaith TGCh er mwyn pontio’r bwlch hwnnw? Yr wyf wedi codi’r mater hwn dro ar ôl tro. Bûm yn boendod yn y Pwyllgor Monitro Rhaglen Amcan 1, mewn Cyfarfodydd Llawn ac yn y Pwyllgor Datblygu Economaidd. A eglurwch pam eich bod chi, fel Gweinidog, wedi gwneud cyn lleied i ddefnyddio swm o arian sydd, yn ôl eich datganiad heddiw, yn fwy na phum mlynedd o ddarpariaeth? Gallai’r arian hwnnw wneud gwahaniaeth, ond dim ond ar ôl imi achwyn a phwyso dro ar ôl tro yr ydym, o’r diwedd, a hynny o anfodd braidd, yn gweld rhyw ymgais i’w ddefnyddio. Rhaid iddo fod yn brif flaenoriaeth.

I welcome the aim of providing 2 megabytes to primary schools, and 8 megabytes to secondary schools. You said you cannot be clear on exact figuers, but those seem to be good as initial targets. The question, however, is how and when? At present there is no provision for delivering a 2 megabyte bandwidth to any subscriber more than 3 kilometres from a broadband exchange. Does your statement imply a commitment to providing the appropriate network of asymmetric digital subscriber line exchanges? That is perhaps what you mean when you explained local provision. Does it also imply a commitment to laying optic fibre to each school, including the primary schools in rural areas? I welcomed the statement that was, not allegedly, but actually, removed from the national economic development strategy

Croesawaf y nod o ddarparu 2 fegabeit i ysgolion cynradd, ac 8 megabeit i ysgolion uwchradd. Dywedasoch na allwch fod yn fanwl gywir ynglŷn â’r ffigurau, ond ymddengys imi y gwnaiff y rheini y tro fel targedau cychwynnol. Fodd bynnag, y cwestiwn yw sut a phryd? Ar hyn o bryd nid oes darpariaeth ar gyfer cyflwyno lled band 2 fegabeit i unrhyw danysgrifiwr nad yw dros 3 kilometr o’r gyfnewidfa band llydan. A yw eich datganiad yn awgrymu ymrwymiad i ddarpariaeth llinell danysgrifio ddigidol anghymesur? Ai hynny sydd gennych mewn golwg pan wnaethoch egluro darpariaeth leol. A yw’n awgrymu hefyd ymrwymiad i osod ffibr optig ym mhob ysgol, gan gynnwys yr ysgolion cynradd mewn ardaloedd gwledig? Croesawais y datganiad a ddilëwyd, yn wirioneddol, nid yn honedig, o’r strategaeth datblygu economaidd genedlaethol.

Dafydd Elis-Thomas The Presiding Officer spoken in English p. 40

Dafydd Elis-Thomas Y Llywydd siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 40

Order. This is almost a speech.

Trefn. Mae hon bron â bod yn araith.

Phil Williams spoken in English p. 40

Phil Williams siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 40

Does your statement imply a commitment to providing the optic fibre—and I welcome the fact that there is no longer any reference to wireless communication—with an estimated total cost of between £100 million and £200 million? If so, with your present budget, when do you expect to give full broadband communication to all of the primary and secondary schools of Wales?

A yw eich datganiad yn awgrymu ymrwymiad i ddarparu ffibr optig—a chroesawaf y ffaith nad oes cyfeiriad bellach at gyfathrebu di-wifren—am gost amcangyfrifedig o rhwng £100 miliwn a £200 miliwn? Os felly, o gofio’ch cyllideb bresennol, pryd y disgwyliwch ddarparu dull cyfathrebu band llydan llawn i bob ysgol gynradd ac ysgol uwchradd yng Nghymru?

Andrew Davies spoken in English p. 40

Andrew Davies siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 40

Whenever I listen to Phil Williams and Plaid Cymru Members, I think that they would welcome any good-news story with a negative response [Interuption.].

Bob tro y gwrandawaf ar Phil Williams ac aelodau Plaid Cymru, credaf y byddent yn croesawu unrhyw newyddion da drwy ymateb yn negyddol [Torri ar draws.].

It was made clear in my statement—of which you have a written copy in front of you, Phil—that of the £18.4 million, £8.5 million is being used to provide points of presence in each local authority and £9.9 million is being given to local authorities for the provision of multimedia equipment in schools. However, as I said in my statement, it is no use having infrastructure if you do not have the means to deliver to the schools. This is all part of a package. Schools must have the ability to use content and that means having multimedia equipment. I cannot see any contradiction there, and I am perplexed by your failure to understand that.

Yr oedd yn eglur yn fy natganiad—y mae copi ysgrifenedig ohono o’ch blaen, Phil—fod swm o £8.5 miliwn o’r £18.5 miliwn yn cael ei ddefnyddio i ddarparu mannau cyswllt ym mhob awdurdod lleol a bod swm o £9.9 miliwn yn cael ei roi i’r awdurdodau lleol i ddarparu offer amlgyfrwng mewn ysgolion. Fodd bynnag, fel y dywedais yn fy natganiad, nid oes diben cael seilwaith os nad oes modd darparu band llydan i’r ysgolion. Mae hyn oll yn rhan o’r pecyn. Rhaid bod ysgolion yn gallu defnyddio’r cynnwys ac mae hynny yn golygu offer amlgyfrwng. Ni allaf weld unrhyw beth anghyson yno, ac mae’r ffaith nad ydych yn deall hynny yn fy nrysu.

This is a complex programme. We are working with local authorities. It is for each authority—following our negotiations with them—to decide how the programme will be implemented. Some local authorities and some schools have access to the internet and broadband infrastructure. That is precisely why we need to discuss and negotiate with local authorities, to ensure that we do not duplicate or add to existing provision. That is exactly what we are saying. This is a process of negotiation with our partners in the public sector network.

Mae hon yn rhaglen gymhleth. Yr ydym yn gweithio gyda’r awdurdodau lleol. Yr awdurdodau—yn dilyn ein negodiadau gyda hwy—fydd yn penderfynu sut y caiff y rhaglenni eu rhoi ar waith. Mae gan rai awdurdodau lleol a rhai ysgolion fynediad i’r rhyngrwyd a seilwaith band llydan. Dyna pam bod angen inni drafod a negodi gyda’r awdurdodau lleol, i sicrhau nad ydym yn dyblygu’r ddarpariaeth gyfredol neu’n ychwanegu ati. Dyna yn union yr hyn yr ydym yn ei ddweud. Mae hon yn broses o negodi gyda’n partneriaid yn rhwydwaith y sector cyhoeddus.

I know that Phil is obsessed with this issue and feels that every school, community facility, and business park should be provided with optic fibre. That may not be absolutely necessary. Broadband can be delivered in a variety of ways. I know that Phil does not agree, so we will just have to agree to disagree. William Graham, who is not present at the moment, asked me a question last week about the use of satellites. It may be that, in remote locations, satellite is the appropriate means of delivering broadband. It may be a wireless method, such as the multi-agency rural area network project as part of Llwybr/Pathway. It may be that we will use a variety of methods to deliver broadband. However, having fibre optic fire cables to every school and facility in Wales is unrealistic. The Department of Trade and Industry is currently commissioning a study that will suggest, I believe, that to do what you ask would cost £5 billion. In Wales, it would amount to hundreds of millions of pounds and that may not be necessary or appropriate.

Gwn fod y mater hwn yn obsesiwn gan Phil a’i fod yn teimlo y dylid darparu ffibr optig i bob ysgol, cyfleuster cymuned a pharc busnes. Efallai nad oes rhaid gwneud hynny. Gellir darparu band llydan mewn amryw ffyrdd. Gwn nad yw Phil yn cytuno, felly bydd yn rhaid inni gytuno i anghytuno yn hynny o beth. Gofynnodd William Graham, nad yw’n bresennol ar hyn o bryd, gwestiwn imi yr wythnos diwethaf ynglŷn â’r defnydd o loerennau. Mae’n bosibl mai lloeren yw’r ffordd addas o ddarparu band llydan mewn lleoliadau anghysbell. Efallai mai dull di-wifren, megis prosiect rhwydwaith amlasiantaeth ardal wledig fel rhan o gynllun Llwybr fydd yn ateb y diben. Efallai y defnyddiwn sawl dull o ddarparu band llydan. Fodd bynnag, nid yw darparu ceblau ffibr optig i bob ysgol a chyfleuster yng Nghymru yn realistig. Mae’r Adran Masnach a Diwydiant wrthi’n comisiynu astudiaeth a fydd yn awgrymu, fe gredaf, y byddai’n costio £5 biliwn i gyflawni’r hyn yr ydych yn ei awgrymu. Yng Nghymru, byddai’n golygu cannoedd o filiynau o bunnau ac efallai na fyddai’n angenrheidiol nac yn addas.

Phil said that we are behind Europe. I have been careful to say that we are behind some areas of Europe. I have been open, when discussing this matter during Assembly questions and debates, in saying that some parts of Europe are ahead of us—particularly Scandinavia. In Sweden, 66 per cent of the population has access to the internet. We cannot match those parts of Europe, but in my role of president of TeleRegions Network I know that in comparison with other parts of Europe, we are ahead of the game.

Dywedodd Phil ein bod ar ei hôl hi o’n cymharu ag Ewrop. Bûm yn agored i ddweud ein bod ar ei hôl hi o gymharu â rhai ardaloedd yn Ewrop. Bûm yn ofalus, wrth drafod y mater hwn yn ystod sesiynau holi a dadleuon yn y Cynulliad, gan ddweud bod rhai rhannau o Ewrop ar y blaen inni—yn enwedig gwledydd Llychlyn. Yn Sweden, mae gan 66 y cant o’r boblogaeth fynediad i’r rhyngrwyd. Ni allwn gystadlu â’r rhannau hynny o Ewrop, ond yn rhinwedd fy swydd fel llywydd y Rhwydwaith TeleRanbarthau gwn ein bod, o’n cymharu â rhannau eraill o Ewrop, ar y blaen.

The administration also feels that this package provides a platform that puts us ahead of the game in many parts of England and in Scotland and the north of Ireland. As a devolved administration, we are working together with our public sector partners to deliver a major step forward in the Cymru Ar-lein vision of having a public sector network which, through aggregating demand, stimulates demand for telecommunications and allows the people whom we represent in this Chamber to have access to modern communications technology. We may disagree on issues, Phil, but I hope you agree that this is a major step forward. Even Plaid Cymru, I hope, will welcome it.

Mae’r weinyddiaeth hefyd o’r farn bod y pecyn hwn yn ein galluogi i fod ar y blaen i sawl rhan o Loegr a’r Alban a gogledd Iwerddon. Fel gweinyddiaeth ddatganoledig, yr ydym yn gweithio gyda’n partneriaid yn y sector cyhoeddus i gymryd cam mawr ymlaen o ran gweledigaeth Cymru Ar-lein sef sefydlu rhwydwaith sector cyhoeddus a fydd, drwy gyfuno’r galw, yn ysgogi’r galw am delathrebu ac yn galluogi pobl yr ydym yn eu cynrychioli yn y Siambr hon i gael mynediad i dechnoleg gyfathrebu gyfoes. Efallai ein bod yn anghytuno ar rai materion, Phil, ond gobeithiaf y byddwch yn cytuno bod hwn yn gam mawr ymlaen. Bydd hyd yn oed Plaid Cymru, gobeithio, yn ei groesawu.

Peter Law spoken in English p. 42

Peter Law siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 42

I must admit that I am a bit steam-powered and therefore find much of this discussion beyond me. It is a bit technological.

Rhaid imi gyfaddef fy mod yn byw yn oes y grym ager ac felly mae llawer o’r drafodaeth hon y tu hwnt imi. Mae braidd yn dechnegol.

Alun Cairns spoken in English p. 42

Alun Cairns siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 42

Not only that is beyond you.

Nid dim ond hynny sydd y tu hwnt i chi.

Peter Law spoken in English p. 42

Peter Law siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 42

Well, I will tell you this: steam burns. It is important that the Tories know that.

Wel, dywedaf hyn wrthych: mae ager yn llosgi. Mae’n bwysig i’r Torïaid wybod hynny.

This matter is important for Wales, and I compliment Andrew and the Government on their announcement. If we are to play a part in the knowledge-based economy, this is a building block for the prosperity of Wales in the future.

Mae’r mater hwn yn bwysig i Gymru, a llongyfarchaf Andrew a’r Llywodraeth ar eu cyhoeddiad. Er mwyn inni chwarae rhan yn yr economi wybodaeth, mae hwn yn gonglfaen i ffyniant Cymru yn y dyfodol.

Blaenau Gwent suffers very much from the effects of a digital divide. Many of our young people—students particularly—apart from being socially excluded, feel dispossessed as far as this subject is concerned. I warmly welcome what this will mean for my constituency and other areas in the digital divide throughout Wales. Developing broadband for education, industry, local government and commerce is vital. Our constituency offices will, perhaps, benefit from this in future. However, I will not be happy until it is in everyone’s home. We must aim for that. I note that the technology will be demonstrated. I also notice that you did not mention BT in your statement. I wonder whether it is contributing financially to this or whether all its money went on the retirement of its chief executive yesterday; it would be interesting to find out. Where will the demonstrations take place? Will they take place throughout Wales, so that everyone can learn about this exciting new proposal, which we all look forward to and welcome?

Mae Blaenau Gwent yn dioddef cryn dipyn oherwydd y rhaniad digidol. Mae llawer o’n pobl ifanc—myfyrwyr yn arbennig—yn ogystal â’u bod wedi eu hallgáu’n gymdeithasol, yn teimlo’n amddifad o ran y pwnc hwn. Croesawaf yn frwd yr hyn a olyga i’m hetholaeth ac ardaloedd eraill sy’n dioddef oherwydd y rhaniad digidol ledled Cymru. Mae datblygu band llydan ym maes addysg, diwydiant, llywodraeth leol a masnach yn hanfodol. Bydd ein swyddfeydd etholaethol, o bosibl, yn elwa ar hyn yn y dyfodol. Fodd bynnag, ni fyddaf yn fodlon nes y bydd ar gael yng nghartrefi pawb. Rhaid inni anelu at hynny. Nodaf y caiff y dechnoleg ei harddangos. Nodaf hefyd na soniwyd am BT yn eich datganiad. Tybed a yw’n cyfrannu’n ariannol at hyn neu a yw wedi gwario ei holl arian ar ei brif weithredwr a ymddeolodd ddoe; byddai’n ddiddorol gwybod. Ble y caiff y sesiynau arddangos eu cynnal? A gânt eu cynnal ledled Cymru, fel y gall pawb ddysgu am y cynnig cyffrous newydd hwn, yr ydym oll yn ei groesawu ac yn edrych ymlaen ato?

Andrew Davies spoken in English p. 43

Andrew Davies siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 43

You made some valid points about the communities that we represent, some of which are economically and socially deprived. We are ensuring that the benefits of modern telecommunications are rolled out to these areas. A problem that we have in Wales is that the demand for telecommunications is relatively weak compared with other parts of the UK. I understand, for example, that Wales accounts for only 1 per cent of BT’s market at a UK level, which demonstrates that the private sector demand for telecommunications is weak. That is one reason why the public sector and the Assembly should take a lead, and that has been universally acknowledged by everyone who contributed to the Cymru Ar-lein policy-making process. They agreed with our strategy and they agreed that we should take a lead. We are stepping into the breach. We know that the private sector in your constituency and others is not a viable market and therefore we must step into the breach.

Gwnaethoch rai pwyntiau dilys ynglŷn â’r cymunedau yr ydym yn eu cynrychioli, y mae rhai ohonynt yn ddifreintiedig yn economaidd ac yn gymdeithasol. Yr ydym yn sicrhau y caiff yr ardaloedd hyn fanteisio i’r eithaf ar ddulliau telathrebu cyfoes. Un broblem sydd gennym yng Nghymru yw bod y galw am delathrebu yn gymharol wan o gymharu â rhannau eraill o’r DU. Deallaf, er enghraifft, mai dim ond 1 y cant o farchnad BT ar lefel y DU sydd yng Nghymru, sy’n dangos bod y galw am delathrebu yn y sector preifat yn wan. Dyna un rheswm pam y dylai’r sector cyhoeddus a’r Cynulliad gymryd yr awenau, ac mae pawb a gyfrannodd at y broses o lunio polisi Cymru Ar-lein wedi cydnabod hynny. Cytunwyd ar ein strategaeth a chytunwyd mai ni ddylai gymryd yr awenau. Yr ydym yn camu i’r adwy. Gwyddom nad yw’r sector preifat yn eich etholaeth chi ac mewn etholaethau eraill yn farchnad ymarferol ac felly rhaid inni gamu i’r adwy.

Phil Williams asked about the use of Objective 1 funding. Dafydd Wigley asked me a similar question last week. Objective 1 is a long programme. It will take more than a year. We have worked with the WDA on the report on broadband infrastructure in Wales, which it commissioned as a result of the consultants’ analysis and we will jointly manage its implementation plan. We hope that it will be published soon. The WDA might well take a lead on using Objective 1 funding for precisely this purpose. It is not something that we would do on our own. We would consult our other partners, such as local authorities and, perhaps, BT or other telecommunications providers. We are not saying that we will not use it, but we must use it in a considered way. We must base it on the research commissioned by the WDA.

Gofynnodd Phil Williams ynglŷn â’r defnydd o arian Amcan 1. Gofynnodd Dafydd Wigley gwestiwn tebyg wrthyf yr wythnos diwethaf. Mae Amcan 1 yn rhaglen hir. Bydd yn cymryd mwy na blwyddyn. Yr ydym wedi cydweithio â’r WDA ar yr adroddiad ar seilwaith band llydan yng Nghymru, a gomisiynwyd ganddo o ganlyniad i ddadansoddiadau’r ymgynghorwyr a byddwn yn rheoli ei gynllun gweithredu ar y cyd. Gobeithiwn y caiff ei gyhoeddi cyn bo hir. Mae’n bosibl y gallai’r WDA gymryd yr awenau o ran defnyddio arian Amcan 1 at yr union ddiben hwn. Nid yw’n rhywbeth y byddem yn ei wneud ar ein pennau ein hunain. Byddem yn ymgynghori â’n partneriaid, megis awdurdodau lleol ac, efallai, BT neu ddarparwyr telathrebu eraill. Nid dweud yr ydym na fyddwn yn ei ddefnyddio, ond rhaid inni ei ddefnyddio mewn ffordd ystyriol. Rhaid inni sicrhau ei fod yn seiliedig ar yr ymchwil a gomisiynwyd gan y WDA.

Alun Cairns spoken in English p. 43

Alun Cairns siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 43

I welcome this statement as a first step on a long road, in terms of bridging the digital divide and the gap between us and the rest of Europe. You mentioned that we are ahead of some parts of Europe. I trust that those are not the former eastern block countries, such as the Czech Republic and Poland, and that we are in line with some of the more developed parts of the European Union.

Croesawaf y datganiad hwn fel cam cyntaf ar hyd ffordd hir, o ran pontio’r rhaniad digidol a’r bwlch sydd rhyngom ni a gweddill Ewrop. Gwnaethoch grybwyll ein bod ar y blaen i rai rhannau o Ewrop. Hyderaf nad gwledydd yr hen floc dwyreiniol, megis y Weriniaeth Tsiec a Gwlad Pwyl, yw’r rheini a’n bod yn cyfateb â rhai o rannau mwy datblygedig yr Undeb Ewropeaidd.

Members have already mentioned timescales. This is a dynamic environment. If we are slow in terms of procurement and in putting the broadband links in place, the megabyte provision will be dated in no time at all and we will need to upgrade and invest even greater sums of money in a relatively short time: will the Minister address that point?

Mae’r Aelodau eisoes wedi crybwyll amserlenni. Mae hwn yn amgylchedd deinamig. Os ydym yn araf o ran prynu a sefydlu’r cysylltiadau band llydan, bydd y ddarpariaeth megabeit yn hen ffasiwn yn fuan iawn a bydd angen inni uwchraddio a buddsoddi hyd yn oed mwy o arian o fewn cyfnod cymharol fyr: a wnaiff y Gweinidog ymdrin â’r pwynt hwnnw?

Much has been said about aggregating public sector demand, but little has been said about delivery. I made the point in yesterday’s Economic Development Committee meeting about aggregating public sector demand. However, using the networks delivered by the private sector would reduce the costs to private sector users in some of the remote parts of Wales. That is what we must do. I hope—because it is not clear from your statement—that we are not building exclusive public sector links, effectively setting up competition to companies such as BT or NTL. I hope that we will use their networks and work with them, so that if we need a link to west Wales, we can ask them to deliver it. We could then reduce the costs of private sector operators in those areas.

Dywedwyd llawer am gyfuno’r galw yn y sector cyhoeddus, ond ni ddywedwyd llawer am y ffordd o’i gyflwyno. Gwneuthum y pwynt yng nghyfarfod y Pwyllgor Datblygu Economaidd a gynhaliwyd ddoe ynglŷn â chyfuno’r galw yn y sector cyhoeddus. Fodd bynnag, byddai defnyddio’r rhwydweithiau a gyflwynir gan y sector preifat yn lleihau’r costau i ddefnyddwyr yn y sector preifat mewn rhai rhannau anghysbell yng Nghymru. Dyna’r hyn y mae’n rhaid inni ei wneud. Gobeithiaf—gan nad yw’n glir o’ch datganiad—nad ydym yn datblygu cysylltiadau â’r sector cyhoeddus yn unig, gan sefydlu cystadleuaeth i’r cwmnïau megis BT neu NTL i bob pwrpas. Gobeithiaf y byddwn yn defnyddio eu rhwydweithiau ac yn cydweithio â hwy, fel y gallwn ofyn iddynt ddatblygu cysylltiad â’r Gorllewin, pe bai angen un arnom. Gallem wedyn leihau costau gweithredwyr y sector preifat yn yr ardaloedd hynny.

Our need to work with local authorities was mentioned. The National Assembly has invested much money into upgrading the facilities available to local authorities, such as video-conferencing. However, I am unsure how many of those facilities are used in negotiations and consultations. One local authority chief executive expressed concern to me that so much money had been spent on the facilities, but they were so little used.

Crybwyllwyd yr angen i gydweithio ag awdurdodau lleol. Mae’r Cynulliad Cenedlaethol wedi buddsoddi llawer o arian i uwchraddio’r cyfleusterau sydd ar gael i awdurdodau lleol, megis cyfleusterau fideo-gynadledda. Fodd bynnag, nid wyf yn siŵr faint o’r cyfleusterau hynny a ddefnyddir mewn negodiadau ac ymgynghoriadau. Mynegodd prif weithredwr un awdurdod lleol bryder imi fod cymaint o arian wedi’i wario ar y cyfleusterau, ond nad oeddent yn cael eu defnyddio lawer.

Andrew Davies spoken in English p. 44

Andrew Davies siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 44

Thank you for welcoming this statement. I am glad that you recognise its importance. We will discuss and negotiate its timescale with local authority officials. Wales already has a variety of provision, so we are unable to provide a fixed timescale. However, we will hold discussions with local authority officials, as we are working in partnership with them.

Diolch am groesawu’r datganiad hwn. Mae’n dda gennyf eich bod yn cydnabod ei bwysigrwydd. Byddwn yn trafod a negodi’r amserlen gyda swyddogion yr awdurdodau lleol. Mae gan Gymru ddarpariaeth amrywiol eisoes, felly ni allwn roi amserlen benodedig. Fodd bynnag, byddwn yn trafod â swyddogion yr awdurdodau lleol, gan ein bod yn gweithio mewn partneriaeth â hwy.

On the private sector, we are working on an infrastructure with Welsh Networking Limited, the successor to the North and South Wales Metropolitan Area Network, basically, the further and higher education sector. We will provide funding to establish that, but private sector telecommunications companies will fund the services. They will provide for how the system works. It will be a partnership with the private sector, which is a matter for open procurement and competition. One of Wales’s largest problems is lack of competition; there is largely monopoly provision. Through that private sector partnership, we aim to open up the telecommunications market and make it more competitive. I am sure that you would welcome that, Alun. It is the only way to reduce costs for us, schools and other service users.

O ran y sector preifat, yr ydym yn cydweithio â Rhwydweithio Cymru Cyfyngedig, sef yr, enw newydd ar Rwydwaith Ardal Fetropolitanaidd De Cymru a Gogledd Cymru, hynny yw y sector addysg bellach ac addysg uwch, i ddatblygu seilwaith. Byddwn yn rhoi arian i sefydlu hynny, ond bydd cwmnïau telathrebu’r sector preifat yn ariannu’r gwasanaethau. Byddant yn sicrhau bod y system yn weithredol. Bydd yn bartneriaeth â’r sector preifat, sydd a wnelo â phrynu a chystadlu agored. Un o broblemau mwyaf Cymru yw diffyg cystadleuaeth: ceir darpariaeth fonopoli yn bennaf. Drwy’r bartneriaeth honno â’r sector preifat, anelwn at agor y farchnad delathrebu gan sicrhau ei bod yn fwy cystadleuol. Yr wyf yn siŵr y byddech yn croesawu hynny, Alun. Dyna’r unig ffordd o leihau costau i ni, i ysgolion ac i ddefnyddwyr eraill y gwasanaethau.

I agree with your third point on video-conferencing. We have not trumpeted the fact that we, I believe, have the most extensive video-conferencing network in the UK. However, not enough people use it. I have used video-conferencing in some of my meetings, but we must encourage local authorities and others, as well as Assembly Members and officials, to make more use of it. Video-conferencing is largely dependent on broadband. The more we use video-conferencing, the greater the demand for broadband. The more broadband technology is used, the sooner the cost will come down.

Cytunaf â’ch trydydd pwynt o ran fideo-gynadledda. Nid ydym wedi datgan y ffaith bod gennym ni, yn fy marn i, y rhwydwaith fideo-gynadledda mwyaf helaeth yn y DU. Fodd bynnag, nid yw digon o bobl yn ei ddefnyddio. Yr wyf wedi defnyddio fideo-gynadledda mewn rhai o’m cyfarfodydd, ond rhaid inni annog awdurdodau lleol ac eraill, ynghyd ag Aelodau a swyddogion y Cynulliad, i’w ddefnyddio yn amlach. Mae fideo-gynadledda yn dibynnu ar dechnoleg band llydan i raddau helaeth. Po fwyaf y defnyddiwn fideo-gynadledda, gyntaf y bydd y gost yn gostwng.

Michael German spoken in English p. 45

Michael German siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 45

Andrew’s statement is an important step and I welcome it. Yesterday, we heard that one of our greatest difficulties in Wales is that companies wishing to work in areas not connected to the ‘main line’ find it difficult to get a price that matches those in other parts of the country. When we are trying to encourage small communities to survive throughout Wales, that does not help. One of the crucial issues raised in the debate on the Welsh language was the need for high-quality jobs in remoter areas. Therefore, finding a good pricing policy for small and medium-sized companies, allowing them a discount, is crucial. I welcome the provision of additional money to the Welsh Development Agency, enabling it to bulk purchase the funding and to act as a wholesaler. I have questions on that subject. Will the arrangement with the WDA provide a uniform pricing mechanism across Wales? Will it be possible, as a result of this, for the access to broadband to be at a reasonable, quotable price throughout Wales? What are the legal hoops that we must jump through to enable that to happen? If the WDA is to act as a wholesaler, legal measures may need to be taken.

Mae datganiad Andrew yn gam pwysig ac fe’i croesawaf. Ddoe, clywsom mai un o’n hanawsterau mwyaf yng Nghymru yw bod y cwmnïau sydd am weithio mewn ardaloedd nad ydynt yn gysylltiedig â’r ‘brif linell’ yn ei chael hi’n anodd cael pris sy’n cyfateb â phrisiau mewn rhannau eraill o’r wlad. Pan geisiwn hybu parhad cymunedau bach ledled Cymru, nid yw hynny o gymorth. Un o’r materion hanfodol a godwyd yn y ddadl ar yr iaith Gymraeg oedd yr angen am swyddi o safon mewn ardaloedd mwy anghysbell. Felly, mae’n hanfodol cael polisi prisio da i gwmnïau bach a chanolig eu maint, gan ganiatáu iddynt gael gostyngiad. Croesawaf y ffaith fod arian ychwanegol wedi’i roi i Awdurdod Datblygu Cymru, gan ei alluogi i ddefnyddio’r arian i swmp brynu ac i weithredu fel cyfanwerthwr. Mae cwestiynau gennyf ar y mater hwnnw. A fydd y trefniadau â’r WDA yn sicrhau dull prisio unffurf ledled Cymru? A fydd yn bosibl, o ganlyniad i hyn, sicrhau bod mynediad i dechnoleg band llydan ar gael am bris dyfynadwy rhesymol ledled Cymru? Beth yw’r rhwystrau cyfreithiol y mae’n rhaid inni eu goresgyn er mwyn sicrhau bod hynny’n digwydd? Os gweithreda’r WDA fel cyfanwerthwr, efallai y bydd angen cymryd camau cyfreithiol.

On the new European legislation on unbundling the local loop, that new law affects former monopoly-holding telecommunications companies such as BT. It has taken away their sole control over the local loop, which is the last few metres of copper wire extending from local exchanges to homes and businesses. How is that law being followed in Wales? It is part of the process of creating a competitive environment. Do you foresee that we will be able to open up that last local loop in the near future, particularly to those communities in Wales where we want to provide high-quality jobs?

O ran y ddeddfwriaeth Ewropeaidd newydd i wahanu’r ddolen leol, mae’r ddeddf newydd honno yn effeithio ar yr hen gwmnïau telathrebu a oedd â rheolaeth lwyr dros y farchnad megis BT. Mae wedi dileu eu rheolaeth lwyr dros y ddolen leol, sef yr ychydig fetrau olaf o wifren gopr sy’n ymestyn o’r cyfnewidfeydd lleol i gartrefi a busnesau. Sut y cydymffurfir â’r ddeddf hon yng Nghymru? Mae’n rhan o’r broses o greu amgylchedd cystadleuol. A ragwelwch y byddwn yn gallu agor y ddolen leol olaf honno yn y dyfodol agos, yn enwedig i’r cymunedau hynny yng Nghymru lle yr ydym am ddarparu swyddi o safon?

Andrew Davies spoken in English p. 46

Andrew Davies siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 46

Many of these are regulatory issues that affect the whole of the UK, not just Wales. Unbundling the local loop is vital. It is no good providing broadband to an exchange if there is no competition, or people cannot access those services—the last mile, as you said. We have discussed this with British Telecom and others, and I am waiting for an updated report on the situation in Wales. Once I receive that, I will write to you and share that information.

Mae llawer o’r materion hyn yn faterion rheoleiddiol sy’n effeithio ar y DU gyfan, nid Cymru yn unig. Mae’n hanfodol gwahanu’r ddolen leol. Nid oes diben darparu band llydan i gyfnewidfa os nad oes cystadleuaeth, neu os na all pobl ddefnyddio’r gwasanaethau hynny—y filltir olaf, fel y dywedasoch. Yr ydym wedi trafod hyn gyda British Telecom ac eraill, ac yr wyf yn aros am yr adroddiad diweddaraf ar y sefyllfa yng Nghymru. Ar ôl imi gael hwnnw, byddaf yn ysgrifennu atoch i rannu’r wybodaeth honno.

On the pricing of provision, we need to open up competition as widely as possible. We feel that we have done that through this innovative and creative solution to providing broadband. The public sector, working together through Welsh Networking Limited and the local authorities, will open up that competition and, we hope, will drive down prices. On uniform pricing, that is a regulatory issue and we will address it. We hope that through WNL—to reinforce your first point about capacity for businesses—there will be surplus capacity, which we will then be able, for example, to feed into business parks. When I was in Bangor recently, I was keen that, for example, Parc Menai would have access to surplus capacity through this solution. It has to be public and private provision.

O ran prisio’r ddarpariaeth, mae angen inni sicrhau bod y gystadleuaeth mor eang â phosibl. Credwn ein bod wedi gwneud hynny drwy’r ateb arloesol a chreadigol hwn i ddarparu technoleg band llydan. Bydd y sector cyhoeddus, gan weithio ar y cyd drwy Rwydweithio Cymru Cyfyngedig a’r awdurdodau lleol, yn gwneud y gystadleuaeth honno yn agored a bydd, gobeithio, yn sicrhau bod prisiau yn gostwng. O ran prisiau unffurf, mae hwn yn fater rheoleiddiol a byddwn yn ymdrin ag ef. Gobeithiwn, drwy Rwydwaith Cymru Cyfyngedig—bwysleisio eich pwynt cyntaf am gapasiti ar gyfer busnesau—y bydd capasiti dros ben, ac y byddwn wedyn yn gallu ei drosglwyddo i’r parciau busnes. Pan ymwelais â Bangor yn ddiweddar, er enghraifft, yr oeddwn yn awyddus i Barc Menai, drwy hyn, fanteisio ar y cyfle i ddefnyddio’r capasiti dros ben. Rhaid iddi fod yn ddarpariaeth gyhoeddus a phreifat.

Companies and businesses in Wales also need to have access to broadband. However, not all companies need it. Many of the companies and organisations that I have visited in rural areas, the area of this year’s Eisteddfod for example, are quite happy with the dial-up provision. That is all they need. However, for others, particularly those with a large amount of data to be processed, and multimedia, and so forth, broadband is important. I will come back to you on pricing, and give you more detailed feedback in a letter.

Mae angen i gwmnïau a busnesau yng Nghymru gael mynediad i dechnoleg band llydan hefyd. Fodd bynnag, nid oes ei angen ar bob cwmni. Mae llawer o’r cwmnïau a’r sefydliadau yr wyf wedi ymweld â hwy mewn ardaloedd gwledig, er enghraifft ardal yr Eisteddfod eleni, yn fodlon ar y ddarpariaeth ddeialu. Dyna’r unig beth sydd ei angen arnynt. Fodd bynnag, mae band llydan yn bwysig i eraill, yn arbennig i’r rhai sydd am brosesu llawer o ddata, a’r amlgyfryngau, ac ati. Rhoddaf ateb ichi o ran prisiau yn nes ymlaen, a byddaf yn rhoi adborth manylach ichi mewn llythyr.

Dafydd Elis-Thomas The Presiding Officer spoken in English p. 47

Dafydd Elis-Thomas Y Llywydd siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 47

The usual 30 minutes allowed for a statement has expired. However, I am sure that the Minister would welcome further short questions given Members’ interest in this matter.

Mae’r 30 munud arferol a ganiateir ar gyfer datganiad wedi dod i ben. Fodd bynnag, yr wyf yn siŵr y byddai’r Gweinidog yn croesawu cwestiynau byr pellach o ystyried diddordeb yr Aelodau yn y mater hwn.

Rhodri Glyn Thomas siaradwyd yn Gymraeg t. 47

Rhodri Glyn Thomas spoken in Welsh p. 47

Diolch am ymestyn yr amser, Lywydd. Yr ydym oll yn croesawu’r fenter hon. Mae’n fuddsoddiad pwysig yn ein hysgolion. Yr ydym ni sydd yn feidrol o ran gallu yn ddiolchgar i Andrew am rannu ei wybodaeth a’i feistrolaeth o’r maes hwn gyda ni, ac yn ymddiheuro fod pobl fel Phil Williams a minnau weithiau’n cael anhawster i ddeall cymhlethdodau’r maes hwn.

Thank you for extending the time, Presiding Officer. We all welcome this initiative. It is an important investment in our schools. We who are mere mortals in terms of ability are grateful to Andrew for sharing his knowledge and mastery of this subject with us, and apologise that people such as Phil Williams and I sometimes have difficulty in understanding the complexities of this subject.

Fe wnaethoch sôn fod hyn yn ein gosod mewn sefyllfa fanteisiol fel gwlad o ran technoleg band llydan. Mae fy narlleniad i o adroddiad y Gymdeithas Cydweithrediad a Datblygiad Economaidd—ac efallai fy mod wedi ei gamddeall—yn ein gosod ychydig yn uwch na Gwlad Pwyl, a thua gwaelod y rhestr o wledydd Ewrop o ran ein defnydd o dechnoleg band llydan. Noda adroddiad diweddar y WDA mai Cymru—fel rhanbarth neu wlad yn y Deyrnas Unedig—yw’r isaf o holl ranbarthau a gwledydd y DU. Pam felly y dywedwch ein bod ar y blaen? Y gwir yw ein bod yn ceisio dal i fyny â phawb arall, a bod yn rhaid inni wneud defnydd o arian Amcan 1. Mae’r ffaith eich bod yn dweud bod gennym ddigon o amser, bod gennym saith mlynedd—

You mentioned that this places us in an advantageous position as a country in terms of broadband technology. My reading of the Organisation for Economic Co-operation and Development’s report—and maybe I have misunderstood it—places us slightly above Poland, and near the bottom of the league of European countries in our use of broadband technology. The WDA’s recent report notes that Wales—as a region or a country in the United Kingdom—is placed lowest of all the UK’s regions and countries. Why then do you say that we are in the lead? The truth is that we are trying to catch up with everybody else, and that we must make use of Objective 1 funding. The fact that you say that we have enough time, that we have seven years—

Dafydd Elis-Thomas Y Llywydd siaradwyd yn Gymraeg t. 48

Dafydd Elis-Thomas The Presiding Officer spoken in Welsh p. 48

Cynigiaf air o gyngor i Rhodri, ac unrhyw Aelodau eraill. Nid yw brawddeg yn dechrau gyda’r geiriau, ‘mae’r ffaith’ yn gwestiwn. Gosodiad ydyw. Carwn i Aelodau ofyn cwestiynau yn hytrach na gwneud gosodiadau yn ystod datganiadau. Byddai cwestiwn yn dechrau ‘onid yw hi’n ffaith’, er enghraifft.

I offer a word of advice to Rhodri, and any other Members. A sentence beginning with the words,‘The fact that’ is not a question. It is an assertion. I ask Members to ask questions rather than make assertions during statements. A question would begin ‘is it not a fact’, for example.

Andrew Davies spoken in English p. 48

Andrew Davies siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 48

Being patronised by Rhodri Glyn is always a pleasure. This administration has been frank in acknowledging that Wales is near the bottom of the league compared with the rest of the UK, and most parts of Europe, in terms of existing broadband provision. We have said that. That is pointed out in Cymru Ar-lein. I have said it myself, as has the First Minister and others.

Mae bob amser yn bleser imi gael fy nhrin yn nawddoglyd gan Rhodri Glyn. Bu’r weinyddiaeth hon yn onest wrth gydnabod bod Cymru tua gwaelod y rhestr o’i chymharu â gweddill y DU, a’r rhan fwyaf o Ewrop, o ran y ddarpariaeth band llydan bresennol. Dywedasom hynny. Fe’i nodir yn y ddogfen Cymru Ar-lein. Yr wyf wedi’i ddweud fy hunan, ac mae Prif Weinidog Cymru ac eraill wedi’i ddweud.

This announcement will allow us to dramatically improve the provision in Wales. There is no contradiction in those two points. You talked about an analysis of previous or current provision. I am talking about last week’s significant plans, which will provide an innovative solution, and put Wales further up the league of accessibility to modern telecommunications infrastructure. There is absolutely no contradiction in the two positions.

Bydd y cyhoeddiad hwn yn caniatáu inni wella’r ddarpariaeth yng Nghymru yn sylweddol. Nid yw’r ddau bwynt hynny yn groes i’w gilydd. Soniasoch am ddadansoddi’r ddarpariaeth flaenorol neu’r ddarpariaeth bresennol. Yr wyf yn sôn am gynlluniau arwyddocaol yr wythnos diwethaf, a fydd yn datrys y sefyllfa mewn ffordd arloesol, gan sicrhau bod Cymru yn uwch ar y rhestr o ran hygyrchedd i seilwaith telathrebu modern. Nid yw’r ddau safbwynt yn groes i’w gilydd o gwbl.

Alison Halford spoken in English p. 48

Alison Halford siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 48

You are to be congratulated on your serious work on this matter. However, I wish that we could have closer cross-party collaboration, because there are experts in the other parties in the Assembly.

Dylid eich llongyfarch ar eich gwaith difrifol yn y mater hwn. Fodd bynnag, hoffwn pe byddai’n bosibl sicrhau bod y pleidiau yn cydweithio’n agosach, gan fod arbenigwyr yn y pleidiau eraill yn y Cynulliad.

A small business in Delyn will have to pay a minimum of £55 a month of small-business tariff, plus £150 installation costs. That is quite a lot of money for a small business. What will you say to these small businesses which are on tight margins?

Bydd yn rhaid i fusnes bach yn Nelyn dalu cyfradd busnesau bach o £55 y mis ar y lleiaf, yn ogystal â chostau sefydlu o £150. Mae hynny’n gryn dipyn o arian i fusnes bach. Beth a ddywedwch wrth y busnesau bach hyn y mae’n fain arnynt yn ariannol?

Andrew Davies spoken in English p. 49

Andrew Davies siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 49

From the figures you quote, may I take it that that is the existing provision for private-sector companies?

O’r ffigurau a ddyfynnwch, a allaf dybio mai dyna’r ddarpariaeth bresennol ar gyfer cwmnïau yn y sector preifat?

Alison Halford spoken in English p. 49

Alison Halford siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 49

That is the cheapest tariff.

Dyna’r gyfradd rataf.

Dafydd Elis-Thomas The Presiding Officer spoken in English p. 49

Dafydd Elis-Thomas Y Llywydd siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 49

Order.

Trefn.

Andrew Davies spoken in English p. 49

Andrew Davies siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 49

I am sorry, I was seeking clarification.

Mae’n ddrwg gennyf, yr oeddwn yn gofyn am eglurhad.

Dafydd Elis-Thomas The Presiding Officer spoken in English p. 49

Dafydd Elis-Thomas Y Llywydd siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 49

Order. There is no such thing as clarification in the middle of a statement; clarifications may be given in a debate, but not during a statement.

Trefn. Ni ellir gofyn am eglurhad yng nghanol datganiad; gellir rhoi eglurhad mewn dadl, ond nid yn ystod datganiad.

Andrew Davies spoken in English p. 49

Andrew Davies siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 49

That is the existing tariff. I accept what you tell me as being the position in your constituency. That is the point that I am making: there is little competition at the moment, and access to broadband and other advanced telecommunication systems is prohibitively expensive for many companies—small and larger companies. We aim to open up competition through our work such as establishing a lifelong-learning network and the work we plan to do with the Welsh Development Agency, and other partner organisations. We hope that that will open up competition. Competition in this area, as in others, almost inevitably leads to lower unit costs. That must be good for companies, if they are to compete in an increasingly global market. I hope, over time, that we will be able to reduce costs to companies, schools and other users of these services.

Dyna’r gyfradd bresennol. Derbyniaf mai’r hyn a nodwch yw’r sefyllfa yn eich etholaeth chi. Dyna’r pwynt yr wyf yn ei wneud: nid oes llawer o gystadleuaeth ar hyn o bryd, ac mae mynediad i dechnoleg band llydan a systemau telathrebu uwch eraill yn rhy ddrud i lawer o gwmnïau—cwmnïau bach a chwmnïau mwy. Ein nod yw gwneud y gystadleuaeth yn agored drwy ein gwaith megis sefydlu rhwydwaith dysgu gydol oes a’r gwaith y bwriadwn ei wneud ar y cyd ag Awdurdod Datblygu Cymru, a sefydliadau partner eraill. Gobeithiwn y bydd hynny’n gwneud y gystadleuaeth yn agored. Mae bron yn anochel bod cystadleuaeth yn y maes hwn, fel mewn meysydd eraill, yn arwain at gostau uned llai. Rhaid bod hynny’n dda i gwmnïau, os bwriadant gystadlu mewn marchnad fyd-eang sy’n tyfu. Gobeithiaf, dros gyfnod o amser, y gallwn leihau’r costau i gwmnïau, ysgolion a defnyddwyr eraill y gwasanaethau hyn.

Glyn Davies spoken in English p. 49

Glyn Davies siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 49

I have heard what you have said about our position on video-conferencing. My experience is that it is difficult, and things often go wrong. We are all familiar with using it. What steps will you take to assess the experiences of Members and staff, and what will you do to improve them?

Yr wyf wedi clywed yr hyn a ddywedasoch am ein safbwynt o ran technoleg fideo-gynadledda. Yn fy mhrofiad i, mae’n anodd ac mae rhywbeth yn aml yn mynd o’i le. Yr ydym yn gyfarwydd â’i defnyddio. Pa gamau a gymerwch i asesu profiadau’r Aelodau a’r staff, a beth fyddwch yn ei wneud i’w gwella?

Andrew Davies spoken in English p. 50

Andrew Davies siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 50

I take on board your point about our internal systems, which we constantly review. We need to examine that with officials. If you have specific issues, let me know and I will take them up with officials. We need to raise awareness of what is available. Video-conferencing can be an invaluable tool: for example, it can cut down on a four or five hour journey, which has a huge benefit in time and cost, and also environmentally by reducing car use. Video-conferencing is suitable for communicating and holding meetings, but it is not always appropriate. Many people prefer face-to-face contact. If there are difficulties in the present network, I will feed your experience into improving it.

Derbyniaf eich pwynt am ein systemau mewnol, yr ydym yn eu hadolygu’n gyson. Mae angen inni archwilio’r mater hwnnw gyda’n swyddogion. Os bydd materion penodol gennych, rhowch wybod imi a byddaf yn eu trafod gyda’n swyddogion. Mae angen inni godi ymwybyddiaeth o’r hyn sydd ar gael. Gall fideo-gynadledda fod yn adnodd gwerthfawr: er enghraifft, gellir ei ddefnyddio yn lle taith o bedair neu bump awr, a gall hyn fod yn fanteisiol iawn o ran amser a chost, ac yn fanteisiol hefyd yn amgylcheddol drwy leihau’r defnydd o geir. Mae fideo-gynadledda yn addas at ddibenion cyfathrebu a chynnal cyfarfodydd, ond nid yw’n briodol bob amser. Mae’n well gan lawer o bobl gysylltu â rhywun wyneb-yn-wyneb. Os ceir anawsterau yn y rhwydwaith presennol, byddaf yn defnyddio eich profiad i’w wella.

To return to broadband, once we have that better infrastructure and the bandwidth for video-conferencing, we hope that many of the problems will be eliminated. Broadband will enable the development of video-conferencing facilities.

I ddychwelyd at dechnoleg band llydan, ar ôl inni sefydlu’r seilwaith gwell hwnnw a’r ystod ar gyfer fideo-gynadledda, gobeithiwn y caiff llawer o’r problemau eu datrys. Bydd technoleg band llydan yn sicrhau y gall cyfleusterau fideo-gynadledda gael eu datblygu.

Brian Gibbons spoken in English p. 50

Brian Gibbons siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 50

I am sure that you know that it is almost 20 years to the month since the IBM PC was launched. The collapse of the personal computer manufacturing sector in recent months shows that the era of the stand-alone PC is virtually over. The timing of this initiative is vital. Will you clarify what is meant by local authorities delivering a point of presence? I am not sure what it means; I realise that it is a complex subject. I also want clarification on what you mean by local authorities retaining responsibility for their network infrastructure. When you mention infrastructure, are you talking about the actual cable underground? If the local authority is to retain responsibility for that semi-hardware, there may be opportunities to also deal with issues of market failure, which will inevitably happen in our most needy and peripheral communities.

Yr wyf yn siŵr eich bod yn gwybod i gyfrifiadur personol IBM gael ei lansio bron 20 mlynedd yn ôl i’r mis hwn. Dengys dirywiad y sector gweithgynhyrchu cyfrifiaduron personol fod oes y cyfrifiadur personol annibynnol bron ar ben. Mae amseriad y fenter hon yn hanfodol. A wnewch chi egluro yr hyn a olygir gan awdurdodau lleol yn cyflwyno pwynt derbyn? Nid wyf yn siŵr beth yw ei ystyr; sylweddolaf fod hwn yn bwnc cymhleth. Hoffwn ichi egluro hefyd beth a olygwch pan ddywedwch y bydd awdurdodau lleol yn parhau i fod yn gyfrifol am eu seilwaith rhwydwaith hwy. Pan grybwyllwch seilwaith, a ydych yn siarad am y ceblau o dan y ddaear? Os mai’r awdurdod lleol fydd yn parhau i fod yn gyfrifol am y lled-galedwedd honno, efallai y bydd cyfleoedd hefyd i ddelio â materion o ran methiant y farchnad, a fydd yn digwydd yn anochel yn ein cymunedau sydd â’r angen mwyaf a’n cymunedau mwyaf ymylol.

Andrew Davies spoken in English p. 51

Andrew Davies siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 51

You made an interesting point when you said that IBM launched its first PC 20 years ago. That demonstrates the rate of technological change. In our new debating Chamber, our screens and facilities may be different. We may not even have fixed points, we may have mobile or handheld devices, I do not know. Technology is changing so quickly that we must address these issues constantly. On points of presence, we will deliver what could be called a big pipe to each of the 22 local authorities, which will enable access to the WNL network if they do not already have it. It will then be up to each local authority—which is the other point you made—to develop the physical infrastructure, which is the wiring, fibre or whatever the local authorities choose as their own infrastructure. Many have already done that. When I visited the Eisteddfod in Denbighshire, a computer manager told me about the infrastructure already in place in the local authority. That is why we are not being prescriptive about how we deliver this. It is a matter of working with local authorities. If they already have infrastructure, or schools already have multimedia equipment, then there is no point in adding to that and we may consider other priorities. We must make maximum use of our investment. Each local authority will decide, in terms of their own procurement, which telecommunications provider or installer they will use to establish networks and links with schools. It will be up to local authorities to negotiate with the provider on how that will be done.

Gwnaethoch bwynt diddorol pan ddywedasoch i IBM lansio ei gyfrifiadur personol cyntaf 20 mlynedd yn ôl. Dengys hynny pa mor gyflym y mae technoleg yn newid. Yn ein Siambr ddadlau newydd, mae’n bosibl y bydd sgriniau a chyfleusterau gwahanol gennym. Efallai na fydd gennym bwyntiau sefydlog hyd yn oed, efallai mai dyfeisiau symudol neu ddyfeisiau a ddelir yn y llaw fydd gennym, ni wn. Mae technoleg yn newid mor gyflym fel bod yn rhaid inni ymdrin â’r materion hyn drwy’r amser. O ran mannau cyswllt, byddwn yn darparu’r hyn y gellid ei alw’n bibell fawr i bob un o’r 22 awdurdod lleol, a fydd yn eu galluogi i gael mynediad i rwydwaith Rhwydweithio Cymru Cyfyngedig os nad oes mynediad ganddynt iddo eisoes. Cyfrifoldeb pob awdurdod lleol—sef y pwynt arall a wnaethoch—fydd datblygu’r seilwaith ffisegol, sef y gwifrau, y ffibrau neu beth bynnag arall y bydd yr awdurdodau yn ei ddewis ar gyfer eu seilwaith eu hun. Mae llawer ohonynt wedi gwneud hynny eisoes. Pan ymwelais â’r Eisteddfod yn Sir Ddinbych, dywedodd rheolwr cwmni cyfrifiaduron wrthyf am y seilwaith sydd eisoes wedi’i sefydlu yn yr awdurdod lleol. Dyna pam nad ydym yn gyfarwyddol ynglŷn â’r modd y cyflawnwn hyn. Mae’n ymwneud â chydweithio ag awdurdodau lleol. Os oes seilwaith eisoes ganddynt, neu os oes offer amlgyfrwng eisoes gan ysgolion, yna nid oes diben ychwanegu at hynny a gallwn ystyried blaenoriaethau eraill. Rhaid inni sicrhau y gwnawn y defnydd gorau o’n buddsoddiad. Bydd pob awdurdod lleol yn penderfynu, o ran eu proses brynu eu hunain, pa ddarparwr neu osodwr telathrebu y byddant yn ei ddefnyddio i sefydlu rhwydweithiau a chysylltiadau ag ysgolion. Cyfrifoldeb yr awdurdod lleol fydd negodi gyda’r darparwr ar sut i wneud hynny.

Geraint Davies spoken in English p. 51

Geraint Davies siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 51

I concur with Peter Law’s views. E-commerce was one of the great hopes for regeneration in places such as Rhondda and the Valleys. We suffer from poor physical communications and broadband offered the hope that that problem could be eliminated and equality given to those areas. What priority in terms of broadband will you give to places such as the Valleys, which need the most regeneration and economic investment?

Yr wyf yn cyd-weld â safbwyntiau Peter Law. E-fasnach oedd un o’r gobeithion mawr o ran adfywio lleoedd megis y Rhondda a’r Cymoedd. Yr ydym yn dioddef oherwydd cysylltiadau ffisegol gwael a chynigiodd band llydan y gobaith y gellid dileu’r broblem honno a sicrhau cydraddoldeb i’r ardaloedd hynny. Pa flaenoriaeth o ran band llydan a gaiff lleoedd megis y Cymoedd gennych, lle y mae’r angen mwyaf am adfywio a buddsoddiad economaidd?

Andrew Davies spoken in English p. 52

Andrew Davies siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 52

You are right. That is why we have made this announcement and made the provision of broadband in the public sector network the top priority in our Cymru Ar-Lein information technology strategy for Wales. It is precisely because of the historic deprivation and de-industrialisation that the areas you mentioned have experienced, that leaders of the public sector must step into the breach and provide this kind of provision. I agree entirely on that. We need to provide the infrastructure, but we must also ensure that our companies—small ones in particular; most companies in Wales are small—are aware of the possibilities that are available through e-commerce. That is why we are pleased that through Objective 1, British Telecom with partners such as the Wales Trade Union Congress and others, has set up OpportunitE Wales, which is a major programme to help small companies make the most of information and communications technology. It will make them aware of the potential and the opportunities of broadband, and explain the impact on their business and how they could use electronic communication to trade electronically. So it is not just about providing infrastructures; it is about providing support, mentoring and training for small companies.

Yr ydych yn gywir. Dyna pam y gwnaethom y cyhoeddiad hwn gan sicrhau mai darpariaeth band llydan yn rhwydwaith y sector cyhoeddus fydd y brif flaenoriaeth yn ein strategaeth technoleg gwybodaeth Cymru Ar-Lein. Oherwydd yr amddifadedd a’r broses ddad-ddiwydiannu yn yr ardaloedd a grybwyllwyd gennych, rhaid i arweinwyr y sector cyhoeddus gamu i’r adwy gan sicrhau darpariaeth o’r fath. Cytunaf â hynny’n llwyr. Mae angen inni ddarparu’r seilwaith, ond rhaid inni sicrhau hefyd bod ein cwmnïau—cwmnïau bach yn arbennig; mae’r rhan fwyaf o gwmnïau Cymru’n fach—yn ymwybodol o’r posibiliadau sydd ar gael drwy e-fasnach. Dyna pam ein bod yn falch bod British Telecom, drwy Amcan 1, a chyda phartneriaid megis Cyngres Undebau Llafur Cymru ac eraill, wedi sefydlu OpportunitE Wales, sef rhaglen o bwys i helpu cwmnïau bach i fanteisio i’r eithaf ar dechnoleg gwybodaeth a chyfathrebu. Bydd yn sicrhau eu bod yn ymwybodol o botensial a chyfleoedd band llydan, gan egluro’r effaith a gaiff ar eu busnes a sut y gallent ddefnyddio cysylltiadau electronig i fasnachu’n electronig. Felly, nid yw’n ymwneud â darparu seilwaith yn unig; mae a wnelo â rhoi cymorth, gwaith mentora a hyfforddiant i gwmnïau bach.

It is also about skills. Ensuring that pupils, students and adults have access to the skills that they will need to make the most of ICT is a major priority of ‘Cymru Ar-lein.’ Training is central. By building the lifelong learning network, we feel that we are providing the means by which the people whom we represent will be able to make the most of these opportunities.

Mae a wnelo â sgiliau hefyd. Mae sicrhau bod gan ddisgyblion, myfyrwyr ac oedolion fynediad i’r sgiliau y bydd eu hangen arnynt i fanteisio i’r eithaf ar TGCh yn un o brif flaenoriaethau ‘Cymru Ar-lein’. Mae hyfforddiant wrth wraidd y strategaeth honno. Drwy ddatblygu’r rhwydwaith dysgu gydol oes, credwn ein bod yn sicrhau y bydd y bobl a gynrychiolwn yn gallu manteisio i’r eithaf ar y cyfleoedd hyn.

Alun Pugh spoken in English p. 52

Alun Pugh siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 52

I welcome this statement. It is good news for education and business throughout Wales. Do you agree that every Assembly Member needs to understand what broadband technology can do, which is not the case at the moment? An excellent way of doing this would not be a one-off demonstration, but rather a permanent broadband connection to Members’ offices to replace the current slow and unreliable connections.

Croesawaf y datganiad hwn. Mae’n newyddion da i fyd addysg a busnes ledled Cymru. A gytunwch fod angen i bob Aelod o’r Cynulliad ddeall yr hyn y gall technoleg band llydan ei wneud, nad yw’n wir ar hyn o bryd? Nid cyflwyniad unigol fyddai’r ffordd orau o wneud hyn, ond cysylltiad parhaol â band llydan yn swyddfeydd yr Aelodau yn lle’r cysylltiadau araf ac annibynadwy presennol.

The uptake of existing Assembly-financed ADSL technology is disappointing. How do you intend to stimulate demand, especially from the small and medium-sized business sector?

Mae nifer y cwmnïau sy’n dechrau defnyddio technoleg llinell danysgrifio ddigidol anghymesur bresennol (ADSL) a ariennir gan y Cynulliad yn peri siom. Sut y bwriadwch ysgogi’r galw amdani, yn enwedig yn y sector busnesau bach a chanolig eu maint?

Andrew Davies spoken in English p. 53

Andrew Davies siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 53

You are right to say that Assembly Members have a role to play in terms of demonstrating the benefits of this technology. We are doing that already. I know that I will be accused of being complacent, but, when I attended the recent TeleRegions Network conference in Valencia, I was able to say that the Assembly, compared with other European political bodies, is at the cutting edge in its use of ICT. We do not say that loudly enough. The Assembly, in the way it does business, is a model of how to use the latest technology. I take your comments on board. If Members would find it useful, I could arrange for demonstrations to be made to them collectively or in party groups—whichever they feel appropriate. We could then demonstrate what this means in real terms.

Yr ydych yn gywir i ddweud bod gan Aelodau’r Cynulliad rôl i’w chwarae o ran dangos manteision y dechnoleg hon. Yr ydym eisoes yn gwneud hynny. Gwn y caf fy nghyhuddo o fod yn hunanfodlon, ond, pan fynychais gynhadledd ddiweddar y Rhwydwaith TeleRanbarthau yn Valencia, yr oeddwn yn gallu dweud bod y Cynulliad, o’i gymharu â chyrff gwleidyddol Ewropeaidd eraill, ar flaen y gad o ran ei ddefnydd o TGCh. Nid ydym yn pwysleisio hynny ddigon. Mae’r Cynulliad, yn y ffordd y mae’n cynnal busnes, yn fodel o’r ffordd orau o ddefnyddio’r dechnoleg ddiweddaraf. Derbyniaf eich sylwadau. Pe byddai o gymorth i’r Aelodau, gallwn drefnu cyflwyniadau ar gyfer pob un ohonynt gyda’i gilydd neu fesul plaid—beth bynnag fyddai’n briodol, yn eu barn hwy. Gallem wedyn ddangos beth mae hyn yn ei olygu mewn gwirionedd.

There is an accessibility issue. My office has an ISDN connection, and has reasonable provision. However, I am aware that other Members have problems. We must build on what Rhodri and I announced last week in terms of the public sector network. By rolling that out, and including the Assembly as a key area, we will improve our own systems. The Assembly has a key role to play.

Rhaid inni ystyried hygyrchedd. Mae cysylltiad ISDN a darpariaeth resymol gan fy swyddfa i. Fodd bynnag, yr wyf yn ymwybodol bod Aelodau eraill yn cael problemau. Rhaid inni weithredu ar yr hyn a gyhoeddwyd gan Rhodri a minnau yr wythnos diwethaf o ran rhwydwaith y sector cyhoeddus. Drwy gyflwyno hynny, a thrwy gynnwys y Cynulliad fel maes allweddol, byddwn yn gwella ein systemau ein hunain. Mae gan y Cynulliad rôl allweddol i’w chwarae.

How to deal with ADSL is partly a matter for the private sector and the telecom companies. The Assembly must help to foster competition in the market and ensure that there are telecom companies other than BT and the one or two others at present. That is the only way to ensure a better and faster provision.

Mater i’r sector preifat a’r cwmnïau telathrebu yn rhannol yw’r ffordd yr ymdrinnir ag ADSL. Rhaid i’r Cynulliad helpu i hybu cystadleuaeth yn y farchnad a sicrhau bod cwmnïau telathrebu eraill heblaw BT a’r un neu ddau gwmni arall a geir ar hyn o bryd. Dyna’r unig ffordd o sicrhau darpariaeth well a chyflymach.

Brian Hancock spoken in English p. 54

Brian Hancock siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 54

There was an article in the business section of yesterday’s The Western Mail on the new partnership between BT, Cisco and Dell. Their scheme consists of five e-commerce packages for small and medium-sized businesses. It strikes me that this could be an Objective 1 programme and could be of real benefit throughout Wales. Did you know about this development, were you involved in it, and if not, why not? Have you had any discussions with Consignia about extending the use of its horizon programme, which is used by all post offices in Wales? You can create—

Cafwyd erthygl yn adran fusnes The Western Mail ddoe ar y bartneriaeth newydd rhwng BT, Cisco a Dell. Mae eu cynllun yn cynnwys pum pecyn e-fasnach i fusnesau bach a chanolig eu maint. Ymddengys i mi y gallai’r cynllun hwn fod yn rhaglen Amcan 1 ac y gallai fod o fudd gwirioneddol ledled Cymru. A wyddoch am y datblygiad hwn, a fuoch yn gysylltiedig ag ef, ac os naddo, pam lai? A gawsoch unrhyw drafodaethau gyda Consignia am ehangu’r defnydd o’i raglen gorwelion, a ddefnyddir gan bob swyddfa bost yng Nghymru? Gallwch greu—

Dafydd Elis-Thomas The Presiding Officer spoken in English p. 54

Dafydd Elis-Thomas Y Llywydd siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 54

Order. We have almost reached the end of the time allocated for the statement and you have asked four questions.

Trefn. Yr ydym bron â chyrraedd diwedd yr amser a neilltuwyd ar gyfer y datganiad ac yr ydych wedi gofyn pedwar cwestiwn.

Andrew Davies spoken in English p. 54

Andrew Davies siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 54

I was aware of the development by BT, Cisco and Dell. If the private sector provides a service, that is fine. However, in many parts of Wales, people will turn to the public sector lead organisations, such as Business Connect, for support. That is particularly true of small companies that want advice on how to make the most of ICT. I do not see that as a problem, because companies have a choice, which, in many areas, they did not previously have. That is why the OpportunitE Wales programme was set up. On Consignia, I met with its senior members in Wales and my officials will have further meetings with it. We are hopeful that we can work together. Consignia has a good system, which I hope to see demonstrated soon. There will be a demonstration of broadband in St David’s Centre over the next weeks, which I will attend. We need to identify good practice and work with it, whether it be in the private or public sectors. We do not claim a monopoly on knowledge or best practice. Where we can, we will learn from others and we will work with them in partnership.

Yr oeddwn yn ymwybodol o’r datblygiad gan BT, Cisco a Dell. Mae’n wych os darperir gwasanaeth gan y sector preifat. Fodd bynnag, mewn sawl rhan o Gymru, bydd pobl yn troi am gymorth at brif sefydliadau y sector cyhoeddus, megis Cyswllt Busnes. Mae hynny’n arbennig o wir am gwmnïau bach sydd am gael cyngor ar sut i fanteisio i’r eithaf ar TGCh. Nid ystyriaf fod hynny’n broblem, gan fod dewis gan y cwmnïau, nad oedd ganddynt o’r blaen, mewn llawer o ardaloedd. Dyna’r rheswm dros sefydlu OpportunitE Wales. O ran Consignia, cyfarfûm ag uwch aelodau ei staff yng Nghymru a bydd fy swyddogion yn cynnal cyfarfodydd eraill â hwy. Gobeithiwn y gallwn gydweithio. Mae system dda gan Consignia, y gobeithiaf y gellir ei harddangos cyn bo hir. Bydd sesiwn arddangos o dechnoleg band llydan yng Nghanolfan Dewi Sant dros yr ychydig wythnosau nesaf, a byddaf yn mynd yno. Mae angen inni nodi arfer da a chydymffurfio ag ef, boed yn y sector preifat neu’r sector cyhoeddus. Nid ydym yn honni mai dim ond ni sy’n meddu ar wybodaeth neu arfer gorau. Lle y gallwn, byddwn yn dysgu gan eraill ac yn cydweithio â hwy mewn partneriaeth.

Dafydd Elis-Thomas The Presiding Officer spoken in English p. 54

Dafydd Elis-Thomas Y Llywydd siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 54

The final, concise question is from Rosemary Butler.

Rosemary Butler sy’n gofyn y cwestiwn cryno olaf.

Rosemary Butler spoken in English p. 55

Rosemary Butler siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 55

I am always concise, Presiding Officer. I congratulate the Minister on this initiative. However, was an audit undertaken of the equipment or facilities already available in local government, given that we are talking about the public sector? You need a strategy to implement this, but that will be difficult given the varying systems throughout Wales. Information and communications technology money is always difficult to spend. When I was in charge of the ICT budget for education, it was not spent in the year in which we wished it to be spent. I still receive letters from governors in Wales asking how they can move forward ICT development for their teachers. A flexible approach is needed. I agree with Alun Pugh that we need a seminar for Members so that we can understand how good this news is—my grasp of what you are discussing is different from Phil Williams’s. I ask that you do that so that we can help with missionary work in our constituencies.

Yr wyf bob amser yn gryno, Lywydd. Hoffwn longyfarch y Gweinidog ar y fenter hon. Fodd bynnag, a gynhaliwyd archwiliad o’r offer neu’r cyfleusterau sydd eisoes ar gael mewn llywodraeth leol, o ystyried ein bod yn trafod y sector cyhoeddus? Bydd angen strategaeth arnoch i weithredu hyn, ond bydd hynny’n anodd o ystyried y systemau gwahanol a geir ledled Cymru. Mae bob amser yn anodd gwario’r arian a neilltuwyd ar gyfer technoleg gwybodaeth a chyfathrebu. Pan oeddwn yn gyfrifol am y gyllideb TGCh ym maes addysg, ni chafodd ei gwario yn y flwyddyn yr oeddem am iddi gael ei gwario. Yr wyf yn dal i gael llythyron gan lywodraethwyr yng Nghymru yn gofyn sut y gallant ddatblygu TGCh ar gyfer eu hathrawon. Mae angen ymagwedd hyblyg. Cytunaf ag Alun Pugh fod angen seminar i’r Aelodau fel y gallwn ddeall pa mor dda yw’r newyddion hwn—mae fy nealltwriaeth o’r hyn a drafodwch yn wahanol i ddealltwriaeth Phil Williams. Gofynnaf ichi wneud hynny fel y gallwn helpu i ledaenu’r newyddion da hwn yn ein hetholaethau.

Andrew Davies spoken in English p. 55

Andrew Davies siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 55

We are all pioneers, so perhaps we are all missionaries too. Provision by local authorities varies considerably across Wales. Many local authorities are advanced in their use of ICT and in the delivery of services; others are less advanced, if I can put it that way. That is why we are not being prescriptive. We are not saying that one size fits all. It is a matter of working with local authorities on how they implement this programme. Yesterday, I had a meeting with the information technology representatives of the mid-Wales partnership. They made a presentation, most of which was superfluous, because we were already delivering what they requested through my announcement last week. Clearly, we are providing what local authorities and the educational sector desperately want. They are looking to the Assembly to lead on this and have welcomed what we are doing.

Mae pob un ohonom yn arloeswyr, felly efallai fod pob un ohonom yn genhadon hefyd. Mae darpariaeth awdurdodau lleol yn amrywio’n sylweddol ledled Cymru. Mae llawer o awdurdodau lleol ar y blaen o ran eu defnydd o TGCh a’r gwasanaethau a ddarperir; mae awdurdodau eraill ar eu hôl hi, os gallaf ei ddweud yn y ffordd honno. Dyna pam nad ydym yn gyfarwyddol. Nid ydym yn dweud bod un ffordd yn addas i bawb. Mae’n ymwneud â chydweithio ag awdurdodau lleol o ran y ffordd y gweithredant y rhaglen hon. Ddoe, cyfarfûm â chynrychiolwyr technoleg gwybodaeth partneriaeth y Canolbarth. Gwnaethant gyflwyniad, yr oedd y rhan fwyaf ohono’n ddiangen, gan ein bod eisoes yn cyflawni’r hyn yr oeddent yn gofyn amdano yn sgîl y cyhoeddiad a wneuthum yr wythnos diwethaf. Mae’n amlwg ein bod yn darparu’r hyn y mae ar yr awdurdodau lleol a’r sector addysg angen dybryd amdano. Maent yn dibynnu ar y Cynulliad i gymryd yr awenau yn hyn o beth ac maent wedi croesawu’r hyn a wnawn.

On implementation, it is a matter for each local authority to negotiate, because their demands will be different. We will be working with them closely on the implementation of this provision. I mentioned the meeting arranged with them and Syniad next week. It will be a big step forward in terms of implementation. I accept your point on the provision of seminars and presentations. My officials will discuss with Members and party business managers the best way to do that. We will do whatever Members consider to be most appropriate.

O ran gweithredu, rhaid i bob awdurdod lleol negodi hyn, oherwydd bydd eu gofynion yn wahanol. Byddwn yn cydweithio’n agos â hwy i gyflawni’r ddarpariaeth hon. Soniais am y cyfarfod gyda hwy a chyda Syniad sydd wedi’i drefnu ar gyfer yr wythnos nesaf. Bydd hwn yn gam mawr ymlaen o ran y broses weithredu. Derbyniaf eich pwynt ynglŷn â darparu seminarau a chyflwyniadau. Bydd fy swyddogion yn trafod y ffordd orau o wneud hynny gyda’r Aelodau a rheolwyr busnes y pleidiau. Byddwn yn gwneud beth bynnag sy’n briodol ym marn yr Aelodau.

Datganiad ar Ddiogelwch wrth Ddringo Mynyddoedd

Statement on Mountain Climbing Safety

Jenny Randerson The Minister for Culture, Sports and the Welsh Language spoken in English p. 56

Jenny Randerson Y Gweinidog dros Ddiwylliant, Chwaraeon a’r Gymraeg siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 56

Alun Pugh opened a debate in February this year entitled ‘Death in the Mountains’. Since that debate the subject of safety when participating in outdoor activities has generated much interest and publicity. Only last weekend two men were seriously injured after suffering separate accidents while climbing on Glyder Fawr, in the Ogwen valley.

Agorodd Alun Pugh ddadl ym mis Chwefror eleni o’r enw ‘Marwolaethau yn y Mynyddoedd’. Ers y ddadl honno mae mater diogelwch wrth gymryd rhan mewn gweithgareddau awyr agored wedi creu llawer o ddiddordeb a chyhoeddusrwydd. Penwythnos diwethaf anafwyd dau ddyn yn ddifrifol ar ôl damweiniau gwahanol wrth ddringo ar Luder Fawr, yn nyffryn Ogwen.

Recently we heard reports of the trial and acquittal of a scout leader, who was in charge of a group of scouts, one of whom was 10-year-old Jonathan Atwell, who fell and tragically lost his life in October 1999. Following the trial there have been press reports involving organisations associated with outdoor pursuit activities, which criticised the Scout Association and questioned whether the changes that it has made to its regulations following this incident go far enough. Furthermore, I understand that Jonathan’s parents are considering legal action.

Yn ddiweddar, clywsom adroddiadau am arweinydd grŵp o sgowtiaid, a safodd ei brawf ac a gafwyd yn ddieuog yn dilyn marwolaeth un ohonynt sef bachgen 10 mlwydd oed, Jonathan Atwell, a syrthiodd i’w farwolaeth yn drasig ym mis Hydref 1999. Yn dilyn y treial, bu adroddiadau yn y wasg am sefydliadau sy’n gysylltiedig â gweithgareddau awyr agored, a feirniadodd Gymdeithas y Sgowtiaid a chwestiynu a oedd y newidiadau a wnaeth i’w rheoliadau yn dilyn y digwyddiad hwn wedi mynd yn ddigon pell. Ar ben hynny, deallaf fod rhieni Jonathan yn ystyried cymryd camau cyfreithiol.

Some issues have been addressed. The adventure activities licensing scheme was introduced following a canoeing incident at Lyme Bay in March 1993, when four teenagers died. The licensing scheme was set up by the Government to regulate private companies operating adventure trips for young people. However, it does not cover all activities offered by the voluntary sector, such as scout and youth organisations. The next review of the licensing scheme is in 2002 and one of the key issues identified is the regulation of the voluntary sector. I am keen to consider how to take forward other associated issues.

Ymdriniwyd â rhai o’r materion. Cyflwynwyd y cynllun trwyddedu gweithgareddau antur yn dilyn digwyddiad canŵio yn Lyme Bay ym Mawrth 1993, pan fu farw pedwar o bobl ifanc yn eu harddegau. Sefydlwyd y cynllun trwyddedu gan y Llywodraeth i reoleiddio cwmnïau preifat sy’n trefnu teithiau antur i bobl ifanc. Fodd bynnag, nid yw’n cwmpasu pob gweithgaredd a gynigir gan y sector gwirfoddol, fel cymdeithas y sgowtiaid a sefydliadau ieuenctid. Cynhelir yr arolwg nesaf o’r cynllun trwyddedu yn 2002 ac un o’r prif faterion a nodwyd yw rheoleiddio’r sector gwirfoddol. Yr wyf yn awyddus i ystyried sut i ddatblygu materion cysylltiedig eraill.

In May this year I convened a meeting with interested parties to discuss safety standards in outdoor activities. The meeting included representatives from the Wales Tourist Board, Antur Cymru, the British Mountaineering Council, the National Trust, the Adventure Activities Licensing Authority, the Countryside Council for Wales, the Wales Mountain Leader Training Board and the Sports Council for Wales. A constructive discussion took place and, as a result of the meeting, I have held further discussions with the Sports Council for Wales about the possibility of establishing a forum to look into promoting and educating the public on outdoor activity safety measures in Wales. I am also seeking the views of the outdoor pursuits group, which is made up of representatives from governing bodies in sport involved in outdoor pursuit activities in Wales, and which works closely with the Sports Council for Wales.

Ym mis Mai eleni gelwais gyfarfod â phartïon sydd â diddordeb i drafod safonau diogelwch mewn gweithgareddau awyr agored. Yr oedd y cyfarfod yn cynnwys cynrychiolwyr Bwrdd Croeso Cymru, Antur Cymru, Cyngor Mynydda Prydain, yr Ymddiriedolaeth Genedlaethol, Awdurdod Trwyddedu Gweithgareddau Antur, Cyngor Cefn Gwlad Cymru, Bwrdd Hyfforddi Arweinwyr Mynydd Cymru a Chyngor Chwaraeon Cymru. Cynhaliwyd trafodaeth adeiladol, ac o ganlyniad i’r cyfarfod, cynhaliais drafodaethau pellach â Chyngor Chwaraeon Cymru ynghylch y posibilrwydd o sefydlu fforwm i ystyried hyrwyddo ac addysgu’r cyhoedd ar fesurau diogelwch mewn gweithgareddau awyr agored yng Nghymru. Ceisiaf hefyd farn y grŵp gweithgareddau awyr agored, sy’n cynnwys cynrychiolwyr cyrff llywodraethu mewn chwaraeon sy’n gysylltiedig â gweithgareddau awyr agored yng Nghymru, ac sy’n gweithio’n agos gyda Chyngor Chwaraeon Cymru.

Weather forecasts are vital when people consider whether to take part in outdoor pursuits. Inquiries made via the Cardiff weather centre reveal that weather forecast services in Wales, which are offered through the meteorological office, are all chargeable.

Mae rhagolygon y tywydd yn holl bwysig pan fydd pobl yn ystyried pa un ai i gymryd rhan mewn gweithgareddau awyr agored ai peidio. Datgela ymholiadau a wneir drwy’r ganolfan dywydd yng Nghaerdydd y codir tâl am wasanaethau rhagolygon y tywydd yng Nghymru, a gynigir drwy’r swyddfa fetereolegol.

It is widely accepted that the element of danger, which is inherent in many adventure sports, is a significant attraction for many participants. However, I am sure that we all agree that we must take positive action to help to reduce the number of accidents and to ensure that adequate information is available to those who participate in outdoor activities, such as mountaineering, canoeing, hill walking and water sports. Even written messages strategically located at access points are considered useful. Safety messages should not attempt to frighten or shock, but should take a bold and informative stance, perhaps through questioning the person’s competence to do what he or she plans.

Yn gyffredinol, derbynnir bod yr elfen o berygl, sy’n gynhenid mewn llawer o chwaraeon antur, yn atyniad mawr i lawer o gyfranogwyr. Fodd bynnag, yr wyf yn siŵr y byddai pawb cyn cytuno bod yn rhaid inni gymryd camau cadarnhaol i helpu i leihau nifer y damweiniau a sicrhau bod gwybodaeth ddigonol ar gael i’r rhai sy’n cymryd rhan mewn gweithgareddau awyr agored, fel mynydda, canŵio, cerdded mynyddoedd a chwaraeon dŵr. Ystyrir hyd yn oed negeseuon ysgrifenedig wedi’u lleoli’n strategol mewn mannau mynediad yn ddefnyddiol. Ni ddylai negeseuon diogelwch geisio dychryn na rhoi braw, ond dylent fod yn glir ac yn cyfleu gwybodaeth, efallai drwy gwestiynu gallu’r unigolyn i wneud yr hyn sy’n fwriad ganddo ef neu ganddi hi i’w wneud.

In taking this work forward it is important to learn from elsewhere. A recent report on strategies for improving mountain safety, prepared by the University of Strathclyde, reported that the accident rate has fallen in Scotland, because more people are aware of the various hazards and are more skilled in dealing with any hazards that they encounter. The decrease in accidents is due to improved dissemination of information.

Wrth fwrw ymlaen â’r gwaith hwn mae’n bwysig dysgu o fannau eraill. Mewn adroddiad diweddar ar strategaethau i wella diogelwch ar y mynyddoedd, a baratowyd gan Brifysgol Ystrad Clud, nodwyd bod y gyfradd ddamweiniau wedi gostwng yn yr Alban, am fod mwy o bobl yn ymwybodol o’r peryglon amrywiol ac yn fwy abl i ddelio ag unrhyw beryglon a wynebant. Mae’r gostyngiad mewn damweiniau yn deillio o’r gallu i ledaenu gwybodaeth yn well.

I want to establish a multi-agency approach involving not only some of our Assembly sponsored public bodies but other interested parties involved in outdoor activities that can make a valuable contribution.

Yr wyf am sefydlu ymagwedd aml-asiantaeth sydd nid yn unig yn cynnwys rhai o’n cyrff cyhoeddus a noddir gan y Cynulliad ond partïon eraill sydd â diddordeb sy’n gysylltiedig â gweithgareddau awyr agored a all wneud cyfraniad gwerthfawr.

Outdoor pursuits can be fun and rewarding, but parents want assurances that good practice is being followed. In the main, it is. However, we must promote safety and safety measures so that outdoor pursuits can be enjoyed to the full and the number of accidents reduced to the minimum.

Gall gweithgareddau awyr agored fod yn hwyl a gwerthfawr, ond mae rhieni am gael sicrwydd bod arfer da yn cael ei arddel. Ar y cyfan, fe gaiff ei arddel. Fodd bynnag, rhaid inni hyrwyddo diogelwch a mesurau diogelwch, fel y gellir mwynhau gweithgareddau awyr agored i’r eithaf a gostwng nifer y damweiniau gymaint â phosibl.

Dafydd Wigley siaradwyd yn Gymraeg t. 58

Dafydd Wigley spoken in Welsh p. 58

Diolchaf i’r Gweinidog am y datganiad hwn, sydd yn dod yn weddol fuan ar ôl achos llys. Yr wyf yn siŵr ein bod ni i gyd yn cydymdeimlo â theulu Jonathan Atwell, ar ôl y drychineb a ddigwyddodd yn fy etholaeth i. Mae’n drist bod digwyddiadau fel hyn, rhai yn fwy difrifol na’i gilydd, yn digwydd bron bob blwyddyn. Rhaid inni fynd i’r afael â’r mater. Rhaid inni ddysgu gwersi’r drychineb hon ac ystyried sut y gallwn osgoi damweiniau o’r math.

I thank the Minister for this statement, which comes relatively soon after a court case. I am sure that we all sympathise with Jonathan Atwell’s family, after the tragedy that occurred in my constituency. It is sad that such events, some more serious than others, occur almost every year. We must tackle the issue. We must learn lessons from this tragedy and consider how we can avoid such accidents.

Ceir gwahaniaeth rhwng darparu ar gyfer diogelwch oedolion a phlant. Os bydd oedolion yn penderfynu peryglu eu hunain wrth ymgymryd â gweithgaredd hamdden, gan wybod yr holl ffeithiau, gallant wneud hynny. Efallai y bydd damwain yn digwydd, a byddai hynny’n anffodus. Mae’n fater llawer mwy difrifol pan fydd rhywun yn ystyried mynd â phlant ar daith, gan y caiff penderfyniadau eu gwneud ar ran y plant, a gallai hynny arwain at golli bywydau.

There is a difference between providing for the safety of adults and children. If adults decide, knowing all the facts, to put themselves in danger when undertaking a leisure pursuit, they can do so. Perhaps an accident will occur, and that would be unfortunate. It is a far more serious matter when someone considers taking children on a trip, because decisions are made on behalf of those children, which could lead to loss of life

Mae gan gymdeithas gyfrifoldeb i sicrhau fframwaith polisi sy’n gwarchod plant yn y fath sefyllfa. Wrth wneud hynny, ni ddylwn ddychryn plant a phobl ifanc rhag dringo’r mynyddoedd, gan fod gweithgareddau awyr agored fel dringo a cherdded yn rhan werthfawr o’u haddysg a’u datblygiad. Rhaid creu polisïau mewn modd cyfrifol, a rhaid i blant a phobl ifanc dyfu gan ddysgu bod peryglon ar y mynyddoedd, yn ogystal â mwynhad mawr.

Society has a responsibility to provide a policy framework that protects children under such circumstances. In doing so, we should not frighten children and young people from climbing the mountains, as open-air activities such as climbing and walking are a valuable part of their education and development. We must create policies in a responsible manner, and children and young people must grow up learning that there are dangers on mountains, as well as great enjoyment.

Cysylltais â mudiad Urdd Gobaith Cymru, sy’n trefnu gweithgareddau mynydda. Deallais gan yr Urdd na fyddai yn caniatáu i unrhyw un arwain grŵp heb gymwysterau, a bod gan y mudiad broses o asesu risg ar gyfer pob gweithgarwch ar y mynydd. Mae hyfforddi arweinyddion yn costio tua £300 y tro. Os ydym am ddatblygu cyfundrefn sy’n gofyn am hyfforddi pawb sy’n arwain pobl ifanc ar fynyddoedd, oni ddylem hefyd gyllido neu ran-gyllido’r fath gostau?

I contacted Urdd Gobaith Cymru, an organisation that organises mountaineering activities. The Urdd told me that it would not allow any unqualified person to lead a group, and that it also has a risk assessment process for every mountain activity. Training for leaders cost around £300 a time. If we are to develop a regime requiring the training of all children’s group leaders, should we not also fund or part-fund such costs?

Gobeithiaf, yn y trafodaethau a gynhelir, y bydd meddwl o ddifrif ynglŷn â sut y gall pawb sy’n cerdded a dringo mynyddoedd dderbyn yr wybodaeth lawnaf bosibl ar yr hyfforddiant a’r cyrsiau sydd ar gael. Er enghraifft, cynigir cyrsiau ardderchog gan ganolfan Plas y Brenin, sydd yn gallu para hyd at wythnos. Mae angen wynebu’r costau hynny. Rhaid inni fel Cynulliad arwain, ac yn y cyd-destun hwnnw, croesawaf ddatganiad heddiw.

I hope that, in the discussions taking place, serious consideration will be given to how all mountain climbers and walkers can receive the fullest possible information on the training and courses available. For example, the Plas y Brenin centre offers excellent courses, which can last up to a week. We must face those costs. We as an Assembly must lead and, in that context, I welcome today’s statement.

Jenny Randerson spoken in English p. 59

Jenny Randerson siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 59

I am sure that everyone here shares my horror at the events involving Jonathan Atwell and the scouts’ activities on Snowdon that day. Dafydd’s points referred to both adults and children. Adults are not necessarily fully aware of the facts, as you suggest. Adults do ignorant, foolish things, and we could do much to provide additional information, particularly as part of our approach to tourism in Wales. Adults walking or visiting mountains and hills would then be in a much safer position than currently, at least sometimes. However, it is children’s safety that we must consider in most detail.

Yr wyf yn siŵr bod pawb yma yn rhannu fy arswyd ynghylch yr hyn a ddigwyddodd i Jonathan Atwell a’r sgowtiaid ar yr Wyddfa y diwrnod hwnnw. Cyfeiriodd pwyntiau Dafydd at oedolion a phlant. Nid yw oedolion o reidrwydd yn llwyr ymwybodol o’r ffeithiau, fel yr awgrymwch. Mae oedolion yn gwneud pethau gwirion, ffôl a gallem wneud llawer i ddarparu mwy o wybodaeth, yn arbennig fel rhan o’n hymagwedd tuag at dwristiaeth yng Nghymru. Byddai oedolion sy’n cerdded neu’n ymweld â mynyddoedd a bryniau wedyn mewn sefyllfa fwy diogel o lawer nag y maent ar hyn o bryd, o leiaf weithiau. Fodd bynnag, i ddiogelwch plant y mae’n rhaid rhoi’r sylw pennaf.

Children are vulnerable, and we expect them, as part of good practice, to obey instructions on such a trip. We ask them to place themselves entirely in the hands of the adults leading the activity. However, we also want to emphasise that outdoor activity is good for the health, as well as being interesting and fun.

Mae plant yn ddiamddiffyn, a disgwyliwn iddynt, fel rhan o arfer da, ufuddhau i gyfarwyddiadau ar daith o’r fath. Gofynnwn iddynt ymddiried yn llwyr yn yr oedolion sy’n arwain y gweithgaredd. Fodd bynnag, yr ydym am bwysleisio hefyd bod gweithgareddau awyr agored yn dda i iechyd, yn ogystal â bod yn ddiddorol a llawn hwyl.

Dafydd raised the costs of courses and training. We must take account of those costs in the review of voluntary sector funding. We considered that earlier this year in relation to the child protection legislation. Several matters are affecting the voluntary sector. Dafydd might find it useful to know that the Adventure Activities Licensing Authority is considering the possibility of a non-statutory approval scheme, and making a self-assessment and guidance pack available to voluntary organisations to plug the gap that currently exists in relation to voluntary activity.

Cododd Dafydd fater costau cyrsiau a hyfforddiant. Rhaid inni ystyried y costau hynny yn yr adolygiad o arian y sector gwirfoddol. Ystyriwyd hynny gennym yn gynharach eleni o ran y ddeddfwriaeth diogelu plant. Mae sawl mater sy’n effeithio ar y sector gwirfoddol. Efallai y byddai’n ddefnyddiol i Dafydd wybod bod yr Awdurdod Trwyddedu Gweithgareddau Antur yn ystyried y posibilrwydd o gynllun cymeradwyo anstatudol, a llunio pecyn hunan asesu ac arweiniad ar gyfer sefydliadau gwirfoddol i lenwi’r blwch sy’n bodoli ar hyn o bryd o ran gweithgareddau gwirfoddol.

Alun Pugh siaradwyd yn Gymraeg ac yn Saesneg t. 60

Alun Pugh spoken in Welsh and English p. 60

Yn gyntaf, diolchaf i’r Gweinidog am ei datganiad. Gall oedolion wneud eu penderfyniadau drostynt eu hunain, ond mae gan y rhai sy’n arwain grwpiau o blant gyfrifoldebau arbennig. Dylai pawb sy’n arwain grwpiau o blant ar y mynyddoedd fod â chymwysterau priodol. Mae safonau ar gyfer arweinwyr mynydd a hoffwn pe bai pawb yn glynu wrthynt.

in Welsh First, I thank the Minister for her statement. Adults can make their own decisions, but those who lead groups of children have special responsibilities. All those who lead groups of children on the mountains should have relevant qualifications. There are standards for mountain leaders and I would like to see everyone adhering to them.

Were it not for the excellent work of the Royal Air Force and volunteer mountain rescue teams, there would have been three more fatalities in Snowdonia last weekend. Adults participating in mountain sports must recognise that there is an inherent risk in these activities. As winter approaches, many people will attempt to walk up mountains such as Snowdon, woefully ill-equipped for the conditions that they will encounter on the summits. I press the Minister on the need for specialist weather forecasts. Those forecasts are currently chargeable at premium rates, and the Meteorological Office will not consent to their free distribution, despite their vital role as regards safety. The shipping forecast is widely distributed free of charge as a safety aid to mariners. Hill users of all types, including upland farmers, should receive a similar service. Will the Minister discuss this with the UK Government? I am pleased that the Minister is considering the need for a Welsh mountain safety forum. The expertise exists in Wales to reduce the death and injury toll, and we should use that expertise.

yn Saesneg Oni bai am waith rhagorol yr Awyrlu Brenhinol a’r timau achub mynydd gwirfoddol, byddai tri pherson arall wedi marw yn Eryri y penwythnos diwethaf. Rhaid i oedolion sy’n cymryd rhan mewn chwaraeon mynydd gydnabod bod risg gynhenid ynghlwm wrth y gweithgareddau hyn. Wrth i’r gaeaf agosáu, bydd llawer o bobl yn ceisio cerdded mynyddoedd fel yr Wyddfa, heb yr offer angenrheidiol ar gyfer yr amodau a wynebant ar y copaon. Pwysaf ar y Gweinidog fod angen rhagolygon tywydd arbenigol. Codir cyfraddau premiwm am y rhagolygon hynny ar hyn o bryd ac ni fydd y Swyddfa Fetereolegol yn cytuno i’w dosbarthu am ddim, er gwaethaf eu rôl holl bwysig o ran diogelwch. Dosberthir rhagolygon tywydd y môr yn eang am ddim fel cymorth diogelwch i forwyr. Dylai pobl sy’n defnyddio’r bryniau a’r mynyddoedd, gan gynnwys ffermwyr yr ucheldir, gael gwasanaeth tebyg. A wnaiff y Gweinidog drafod hyn â Llywodraeth y DU? Yr wyf yn falch bod y Gweinidog yn ystyried a oes angen fforwm diogelwch mynyddoedd Cymru. Mae’r arbenigedd ar gael yng Nghymru i leihau nifer y bobl sy’n marw ac yn cael anafiadau, a dylem ddefnyddio’r arbenigedd hwnnw.

Jenny Randerson spoken in English p. 61

Jenny Randerson siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 61

I am grateful that Alun has placed this topic on our agenda, not only by way of his short debate in February but also by requesting an emergency statement a few weeks ago. One key issue that we must discuss on a UK level is whether next year’s review of the licensing procedures includes—or leads to the inclusion—of the voluntary sector. Even if it is decided that it is not appropriate to include the voluntary sector, there is still much work that we can do in Wales. We should aim to create a climate of public opinion that makes it unacceptable for voluntary organisations taking young people on adventure activities not to have appropriately qualified leaders. We must raise public awareness on this issue.

Yr wyf yn ddiolchgar bod Alun wedi rhoi’r pwnc hwn ar ein hagenda, nid yn unig drwy gyfrwng ei ddadl fer ym mis Chwefror ond hefyd drwy ofyn am ddatganiad brys rai wythnosau yn ôl. Un mater allweddol y mae’n rhaid inni ei drafod ar lefel y DU yw a yw adolygiad y flwyddyn nesaf o’r gweithdrefnau trwyddedu yn cynnwys—neu’n arwain at gynnwys—y sector gwirfoddol. Hyd yn oed os penderfynir nad yw’n briodol cynnwys y sector gwirfoddol, mae llawer o waith eto y gallwn ei wneud yng Nghymru. Dylem geisio creu hinsawdd o farn gyhoeddus sy’n ei gwneud yn annerbyniol i sefydliadau gwirfoddol fynd â phobl ifanc ar weithgareddau antur heb arweinwyr cymwys priodol. Rhaid inni godi ymwybyddiaeth y cyhoedd ar y mater hwn.

Alun attended the first meeting of the group that I mentioned in my statement. A second meeting will be held, now that we have made progress on information. I am aware of the cost implications of weather forecasting. I have spent the last few months trying to find a solution to that. It is a UK level issue, and I will take it up at the appropriate level in the near future. At our next meeting, I hope that we will make progress towards establishing a mountain safety forum.

Mynychodd Alun gyfarfod cyntaf y grŵp y soniais amdano yn fy natganiad. Caiff ail gyfarfod ei gynnal, gan ein bod bellach wedi cael mwy o wybodaeth. Yr wyf yn ymwybodol o oblygiadau cost rhoi rhagolygon y tywydd. Treuliais yr ychydig fisoedd diwethaf yn ceisio dod o hyd i ateb i hynny. Mater ar lefel y DU ydyw, ac fe’i codaf ar y lefel briodol yn y dyfodol agos. Yn ein cyfarfod nesaf, gobeithiaf y byddwn wedi mynd rhywfaint o’r ffordd tuag at sefydlu fforwm diogelwch mynyddoedd.

Jonathan Morgan spoken in English p. 61

Jonathan Morgan siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 61

This is an important subject. When one considers the incredible landscape that we have in Wales, and when you compare its beauty with that of other European states, it is understandable why so many individuals and groups want to experience it through a variety of outdoor activities. However, there is a considerable risk and responsibility involved in enjoying the landscape. It is fitting that Alun Pugh has raised this subject in the Chamber and that we discuss it today. I agree that there is a need to assess how the voluntary sector can be regulated. However, does the Minister agree that we must achieve a balance, that is, offering safety without discouraging participation? That is not an easy balance to achieve, but we must aim towards it. We know of the risks involved in some activities, and we understand the need for safety. However, we do not want to discourage young people or adults who want to lead groups from participating in outdoor activities.

Mae hwn yn bwnc pwysig. Pan ystyrir y dirwedd anhygoel sydd gennym yng Nghymru a phan gymharwch ei harddwch â harddwch gwledydd eraill yn Ewrop, gallwn ddeall pam mae cymaint o unigolion a grwpiau am gael profiad ohono drwy amrywiaeth o weithgareddau awyr agored. Fodd bynnag, mae cryn risg a chyfrifoldeb ynghlwm wrth fwynhau’r dirwedd. Mae’n briodol i Alun Pugh godi’r pwnc hwn yn y Siambr ac inni ei drafod heddiw. Cytunaf fod angen asesu sut y gellir rheoleiddio’r sector gwirfoddol. Fodd bynnag, a gytuna’r Gweinidog fod yn rhaid inni gael cydbwysedd, hynny yw, cynnig diogelwch heb ddiflasu pobl rhag cymryd rhan? Nid yw hynny’n gydbwysedd hawdd i’w gyflawni, ond rhaid inni anelu tuag ato. Gwyddom am y risgiau sydd ynghlwm wrth rai o’r gweithgareddau, a deallwn fod angen diogelwch. Fodd bynnag, nid ydym am ddiflasu pobl ifanc ac oedolion rhag arwain grwpiau i gymryd rhan mewn gweithgareddau awyr agored.

A wide range of organisations are involved in the discussions over safety standards. Could this group be widened to include the emergency services? Those services have much expertise on safety matters, and it would be fitting to include them in further discussions.

Mae ystod eang o sefydliadau yn gysylltiedig â’r trafodaethau ar safonau diogelwch. A ellid ehangu’r grŵp hwn i gynnwys y gwasanaethau brys? Mae gan y gwasanaethau hynny gryn arbenigedd ar faterion diogelwch, a byddai’n briodol eu cynnwys mewn trafodaethau pellach.

Jenny Randerson spoken in English p. 62

Jenny Randerson siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 62

Jonathan’s last point is a good idea. I will bear it in mind during future discussions. At our last meeting we discussed the role of the emergency services, but the services were not represented.

Mae pwynt diwethaf Jonathan yn syniad da. Cadwaf hynny mewn cof yn ystod trafodaethau yn y dyfodol. Yn ein cyfarfod diwethaf trafodasom rôl y gwasanaethau brys, ond ni chynrychiolwyd y gwasanaethau.

I agree with Jonathan on the attraction of the landscape. Research shows that the majority of visitors come to Wales for the countryside. It is important, for their safety and for our economy, that they enjoy the countryside and come back. As part of that, we must provide them with a safe experience.

Cytunaf â Jonathan ynglŷn ag atyniad y dirwedd. Dengys ymchwil y daw’r mwyafrif o ymwelwyr i Gymru oherwydd y cefn gwlad. Mae’n bwysig, er mwyn eu diogelwch ac er mwyn ein heconomi, eu bod yn mwynhau cefn gwlad ac yn dychwelyd. Fel rhan o hynny, rhaid inni roi profiad diogel iddynt.

I also agree, as I mentioned in my statement, that safety information should not be frightening. We should not frighten people away from participating. I regret that the great deal of appropriate publicity given to the case of the young scout Jonathan Atwell, put people off going to the mountains and discouraged parents from entrusting their children to participate in such activities. We must contribute towards rebuilding that trust. We must also encourage people to volunteer. There are many reasons why teachers and voluntary organisation leaders find it increasingly difficult to give the required commitment. There is nothing better to encourage confidence than to know that you have the appropriate qualifications to do a task properly. We must provide a structure and a climate that encourages volunteers to gain all the appropriate qualifications. We must also encourage parents to check that group leaders have the necessary qualifications. That should build confidence. Wales can offer wonderful experiences to young people.

Cytunaf hefyd, fel y soniais yn fy natganiad, na ddylai gwybodaeth am ddiogelwch beri ofn. Ni ddylem ddychryn pobl fel na fyddant yn cymryd rhan. Gresynaf fod yr holl gyhoeddusrwydd priodol a roddwyd i’r sgowt ifanc Jonathan Atwell, wedi golygu bod pobl wedi cadw draw o’r mynyddoedd ac wedi annog rhieni i beidio â gadael i’w plant gymryd rhan mewn gweithgareddau o’r fath. Rhaid inni gyfrannu at ailadeiladu’r ymddiriedaeth honno. Rhaid inni annog pobl hefyd i wirfoddoli. Mae sawl rheswm pam mae athrawon ac arweinwyr sefydliadau gwirfoddol yn ei chael hi’n gynyddol anodd i roi’r ymrwymiad sy’n ofynnol. Nid oes dim yn well i annog hyder na gwybod bod gennych y cymwysterau priodol i gyflawni’r dasg yn gywir. Rhaid inni ddarparu strwythur a hinsawdd sy’n annog gwirfoddolwyr i ennill yr holl gymwysterau priodol. Rhaid inni annog rhieni hefyd i sicrhau bod gan arweinwyr grwpiau y cymwysterau angenrheidiol. Dylai hynny fagu hyder. Gall Cymru gynnig profiadau gwych i bobl ifanc.

Mick Bates spoken in English p. 63

Mick Bates siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 63

We are all grateful to Alun Pugh for raising this issue. I welcome the Minister’s multi-agency approach. As she knows, I expect to see more visitors to the countryside this year, particularly given the new Countryside Bill, which gives greater access to the countryside. I have stated many times that wardens should patrol such areas at all times. As part of their duties, the wardens could undergo the training that was described earlier and thus be of great assistance to visitors, who often only come for the day and decide to go walking in the hills. The Countryside Council for Wales and the national parks may be able to employ wardens, or attract volunteers, who would have the necessary skills to give advice, especially when the weather changes quickly, as it often does on the hills. Will the Minister make that suggestion to the forum?

Yr ydym oll yn ddiolchgar i Alun Pugh am godi’r mater hwn. Croesawaf ymagwedd amlasiantaeth y Gweinidog. Fel y gŵyr, disgwyliaf weld llawer mwy o bobl yn ymweld â chefn gwlad eleni, yn arbennig o gofio’r Mesur Cefn Gwlad newydd, sy’n rhoi mwy o fynediad i gefn gwlad. Yr wyf wedi nodi sawl gwaith y dylai wardeiniaid warchod ardaloedd o’r fath ar bob adeg. Fel rhan o’u dyletswyddau, gallai’r wardeiniaid gael yr hyfforddiant a ddisgrifiwyd yn gynharach ac felly gallant fod o gymorth mawr i ymwelwyr, a ddaw am y dydd yn unig yn aml a phenderfynu mynd i gerdded y mynyddoedd. Efallai y bydd Cyngor Cefn Gwlad Cymru a’r parciau cenedlaethol yn gallu cyflogi wardeiniaid, neu ddenu gwirfoddolwyr, a fyddai’n meddu ar y sgiliau angenrheidiol i roi cyngor, yn enwedig pan fydd y tywydd yn newid yn gyflym, fel y gwna yn aml ar y mynyddoedd. A wnaiff y Gweinidog gyflwyno’r awgrym hwnnw i’r fforwm?

Jenny Randerson spoken in English p. 63

Jenny Randerson siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 63

As Mick lives in and represents a rural area, he is well aware of these issues. His idea about wardens is interesting. I will raise that issue at the next meeting as a possibility for further development. It would have training and funding implications. It is also an appropriate issue to discuss with the national parks.

Gan fod Mick yn byw mewn ardal wledig ac yn ei chynrychioli, mae’n ymwybodol iawn o’r materion hyn. Mae ei syniad ynglŷn â wardeiniaid yn ddiddorol. Codaf y mater hwnnw yn y cyfarfod nesaf fel rhywbeth i’w ddatblygu ymhellach. Byddai iddo oblygiadau o ran hyfforddi ac ariannu. Mae’n fater priodol hefyd i’w drafod â’r parciau cenedlaethol.

David Davies siaradwyd yn Gymraeg t. 63

David Davies spoken in Welsh p. 63

Fel cyn-aelod o’r sgowtiaid, cytunaf fod yr hyn a ddigwyddodd yn drychineb fawr. Fodd bynnag, a yw’r Gweinidog yn cytuno bod Cymdeithas y Sgowtiaid yn gwneud gwaith da a phwysig yn ein cymunedau?

As a former member of the scouts, I agree that what happened was a great tragedy. However, does the Minister agree that the Scout Association does good and important work in our communities?

Jenny Randerson spoken in English p. 64

Jenny Randerson siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 64

I agree. I was only too pleased when my son became a keen and enthusiastic scout. He was a member for many years. The recent events are unfortunate in terms of their effect on scouting. However, it is important that the Scout Association takes on board fully the lessons that it must learn from this and becomes part of the modern raft of voluntary sector organisations working with young people. It has to take on board fully the modern approach to safety when working with children.

Cytunaf. Yr oeddwn yn falch pan ddaeth fy mab yn sgowt brwdfrydig. Bu’n aelod am flynyddoedd lawer. Mae’r digwyddiadau diweddar yn anffodus o ran eu heffaith ar Gymdeithas y Sgowtiaid. Fodd bynnag, mae’n bwysig bod Cymdeithas y Sgowtiaid yn ystyried y gwersi y mae’n rhaid iddi eu dysgu o hyn ac yn dod yn rhan o’r cylch modern o sefydliadau o fewn y sector gwirfoddol sy’n gweithio gyda phobl ifanc. Mae’n rhaid iddi ystyried yn llawn yr ymagwedd fodern tuag at ddiogelwch wrth weithio gyda phlant.

Brian Hancock spoken in English p. 64

Brian Hancock siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 64

I declare an interest, as an ex-Queen’s scout and as a health and safety consultant, in view of my involvement in risk assessment, particularly post-Lyme Bay, when schools have had to carry out risk assessments. Anybody working with young people must have police checks. Therefore, we ought to consider making people post a risk assessment on any trip—whether a warden entering a mountain range or someone canoeing.

Datganaf fuddiant, fel un o gyn-sgowtiaid y Frenhines ac fel ymgynghorydd iechyd a diogelwch, o gofio’r gwaith a wnaf gydag asesu risgiau, yn arbennig, yn sgîl Lyme Bay, pan fu’n rhaid i ysgolion gynnal asesiadau risg. Rhaid i’r heddlu sicrhau bod pawb sy’n gweithio gyda phobl ifanc yn addas i wneud hynny. Felly, dylem ystyried gorfodi pobl i lunio asesiad risg ar unrhyw daith—boed hynny’n warden yn mynd i fynydda neu rywun yn canŵio.

Jenny Randerson spoken in English p. 64

Jenny Randerson siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 64

The Health and Safety Executive recently set up the adventure activities industry advisory committee, which is considering risk assessment. The Committee is in its early stages, but it is looking beyond its present work at risk assessment. There is a lot of work to be done. I mentioned in my statement that we can learn from elsewhere. The parallels with Scotland are not total, but there are parallels. The Scottish adventure activities forum runs a pilot scheme looking at voluntary organisations. The combination of voluntary activity and the HSE committee’s consideration of risk assessment should provide the sort of ideas for a way forward that will make a real difference.

Yn ddiweddar, sefydlodd yr Awdurdod Gweithredol Iechyd a Diogelwch bwyllgor ymgynghorol y diwydiant gweithgareddau antur, sy’n ystyried asesiadau risg. Megis dechrau y mae’r Pwyllgor, ond mae’n edrych y tu hwnt i’w waith presennol ar asesu risg. Mae llawer o waith i’w wneud. Nodais yn fy natganiad y gallem ddysgu o fannau eraill. Ni ellir cyffelybu’n llwyr â’r Alban ond mae cyffelybiaethau. Mae fforwm gweithgareddau antur yr Alban yn gweithredu cynllun peilot sy’n edrych ar sefydliadau gwirfoddol. Wrth gyfuno gweithgaredd gwirfoddol ac ystyriaeth pwyllgor yr Awdurdod Gweithredol Iechyd a Diogelwch o asesu risg, dylai’r math o syniadau ar gyfer y ffordd ymlaen gael eu codi a byddant yn gwneud gwahaniaeth gwirioneddol.

Datganiad ar y Bwrdd Ymgynghorol Anableddau Dysgu

Statement on the Learning Disabilities Advisory Board

Jane Hutt The Minister for Health and Social Services spoken in English p. 64

Jane Hutt Y Gweinidog dros Iechyd a Gwasanaethau Cymdeithasol siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 64

Thank you for giving me the opportunity to make a statement about the proposed framework for services for people with learning disabilities in Wales, which is currently out for consultation.

Diolch i chi am roi’r cyfle imi wneud datganiad ar y fframwaith arfaethedig ar gyfer gwasanaethau i bobl ag anableddau dysgu yng Nghymru, yr ydym yn ymgynghori arno ar hyn o bryd.

The all-Wales mental handicap strategy was launched in 1983. It sought to enable people with learning disabilities to enjoy the full range of life opportunities and choices in their communities, to develop independence and self-respect, and to receive additional help and support from the communities in which they live and from professional services in developing their maximum potential. The strategy was reviewed in the 1990s, and updated guidance was issued in 1994, but the essential principles behind the 1983 strategy were sustained. The strategy continues to provide a path for the Assembly to follow.

Lansiwyd strategaeth anfanteision meddyliol Cymru gyfan yn 1983. Ceisiodd alluogi pobl ag anableddau dysgu i fwynhau’r ystod lawn o gyfleoedd a dewisiadau bywyd yn eu cymunedau, i ddatblygu annibyniaeth a hunan-barch, ac i gael cymorth a chefnogaeth ychwanegol gan y cymunedau y maent yn byw ynddynt a chan wasanaethau proffesiynol wrth ddatblygu eu potensial i’r eithaf. Adolygwyd y strategaeth yn y 1990au, a chyhoeddwyd arweiniad wedi’i ddiweddaru yn 1994, ond cadwyd at yr egwyddorion hanfodol a oedd wrth wraidd strategaeth 1983. Mae’r strategaeth yn parhau i ddarparu llwybr i’r Cynulliad ei ddilyn.

The challenge for the National Assembly is: how can we help people with learning disabilities to achieve inclusion and self-fulfilment? It will require us to look beyond the provision and quality of health and social services, to encompass, for example, education, training, housing, leisure, employment and economic policies. It will require us to ensure that policy and programme development across a range of Assembly responsibilities takes full account of the particular needs and aspirations of people with learning disabilities. We must value and welcome the contribution that these people can make to their community.

Dyma’r her i’r Cynulliad Cenedlaethol: sut y gallwn helpu pobl ag anableddau dysgu i gael eu cynnwys ac i wireddu eu potensial? Bydd angen inni edrych y tu hwnt i ddarpariaeth ac ansawdd gwasanaethau iechyd a chymdeithasol, i ymgorffori, er enghraifft, addysg, hyfforddiant, tai, hamdden, cyflogaeth a pholisïau economaidd. Bydd angen inni sicrhau bod datblygu polisïau a rhaglenni ar draws ystod o gyfrifoldebau’r Cynulliad yn ystyried yn llawn anghenion a dyheadau penodol pobl ag anableddau dysgu. Rhaid inni werthfawrogi a chroesawu’r cyfraniad y gall y bobl hyn ei wneud i’w cymunedau.

In December 1999, the Assembly established an external learning disability advisory group to draw up proposals for a framework for services for people with learning disabilities. The aim was to produce clear information on the services and support that people with learning disabilities, their families and carers could call upon. The advisory group was chaired by Dr Oliver Russell from the Norah Fry Research Centre, and its membership was widely drawn from the NHS, local government and representatives from the Standing Conference of Voluntary Organisations for People with a Learning Disability in Wales (SCOVO), Mencap Cymru, All Wales People First and the All Wales Forum of Parents and Carers.

Yn Rhagfyr 1999, sefydlodd y Cynulliad grŵp ymgynghorol allanol ar anableddau dysgu i lunio cynigion ar fframwaith ar gyfer gwasanaethau i bobl ag anableddau dysgu. Y nod oedd cynhyrchu gwybodaeth glir am y gwasanaethau a’r gefnogaeth y gallai pobl ag anableddau dysgu, eu teuluoedd a’u gofalwyr alw arnynt. Cadeiriwyd y grŵp ymgynghorol gan Dr Oliver Russell o Ganolfan Ymchwil Norah Fry, ac yr oedd cynrychiolaeth eang ymhlith ei aelodau o’r NHS, llywodraeth leol a chynrychiolwyr o Gynhadledd Sefydlog y Sefydliadau Gwirfoddol ar gyfer Pobl ag Anabledd Dysgu yng Nghymru (SCOVO), Mencap Cymru, Rhoi Pobl yn Gyntaf Cymru Gyfan a Fforwm Rhieni a Gofalwyr Cymru Gyfan.

The advisory group also established smaller working groups, drawing in a further wide range of interested parties to help it in its work. Importantly, the advisory group also established focus groups across Wales comprising people with learning disabilities as well as their families and carers. The advisory group initially sought views and ideas from these focus groups about what should be included in the framework for services and then asked them whether the draft proposals that it had developed reflected their needs.

Sefydlodd y grŵp ymgynghorol weithgorau bach hefyd, gan gynnwys ystod ehangach o bartïon â diddordeb i’w helpu yn ei waith. Yn bwysig, sefydlodd y grŵp ymgynghorol grwpiau ffocws hefyd ledled Cymru yn cynnwys pobl ag anableddau dysgu yn ogystal â’u teuluoedd a’u gofalwyr. Ar y cychwyn, ceisiodd y grŵp ymgynghorol safbwyntiau a syniadau’r grwpiau ffocws hyn ynglŷn â’r hyn y dylid ei gynnwys yn y fframwaith ar gyfer gwasanaethau ac yna gofynnwyd iddynt a oedd y cynigion drafft a ddatblygwyd ganddo yn adlewyrchu eu hanghenion.

The advisory group’s final report, which was submitted to me earlier this summer, is a comprehensive and thoughtful document. I thank Dr Oliver Russell and the other members of the group for all their hard work in producing this report. The report, ‘Fulfilling the Promises’, provides a comprehensive assessment of the progress made in implementing the strategy and sets out the challenges for the future. The group acknowledges the great progress that has been made in reforming the nature of residential services, day services, domiciliary services and family support. However, it states that the provision across Wales is uneven. The advisory group does not believe that the vision set out in the 1983 strategy has been fully realised, and it set out its proposals and priorities for achieving its vision for services for 2010. The advisory group believes that its proposals will develop more accessible, responsive, and person-centred services and support than ever before, and provide a greater commitment to partnership, workforce training and Best Value.

Mae adroddiad terfynol y grŵp ymgynghorol, a gyflwynwyd imi yn gynharach yr haf hwn, yn ddogfen gynhwysfawr ac ystyrlon. Diolchaf i Dr Oliver Russell ac aelodau eraill y grŵp am eu holl waith caled wrth gynhyrchu’r adroddiad hwn. Darpara’r adroddiad, ‘Fulfilling the Promises’, asesiad cynhwysfawr o’r cynnydd a wnaethpwyd wrth weithredu’r strategaeth a noda’r heriau ar gyfer y dyfodol. Mae’r grŵp yn cydnabod y cynnydd mawr a wnaethpwyd wrth ddiwygio natur gwasanaethau preswyl, gwasanaethau dydd, gwasanaethau cartref a chefnogaeth deuluol. Fodd bynnag, noda fod y ddarpariaeth ledled Cymru yn anghyson. Ni chred y grŵp ymgynghorol fod y weledigaeth a nodwyd yn strategaeth 1983 wedi ei gwireddu’n llawn, a nododd ei gynigion a’i flaenoriaethau ar gyfer gwireddu ei weledigaeth ar gyfer gwasanaethau yn 2010. Cred y grŵp ymgynghorol y bydd ei gynigion yn datblygu gwasanaethau a chefnogaeth sy’n fwy hygyrch, ymatebol, yn canolbwyntio’n fwy ar y person nag erioed o’r blaen, gan ddarparu ymrwymiad mwy i bartneriaeth, hyfforddi’r gweithlu a Gwerth Gorau.

We are now consulting on the advisory group’s report and proposals. The consultation started in September and will run until January 2002. This will give people with learning disabilities, their families and carers, statutory authorities and all other interested organisations sufficient opportunity to absorb the advisory group’s proposals, to reflect on them, and to present their considered views and comments. We have distributed over 1,000 copies of the full advisory group report and have, in consultation with SCOVO and All Wales People First, prepared and distributed a more accessible version of the report. These documents are also available on the Assembly’s website. To assist the consultation process, the Assembly has also provided additional money to the All Wales Forum of Parents and Carers and SCOVO to enable them to hold consultation meetings.

Yr ydym wrthi ar hyn o bryd yn ymgynghori ar adroddiad a chynigion y grŵp ymgynghorol. Dechreuodd yr ymgynghoriad ym Medi a bydd yn parhau tan Ionawr 2002. Rhydd hyn ddigon o gyfle i bobl ag anableddau dysgu, eu teuluoedd a’u gofalwyr, awdurdodau statudol a phob sefydliad arall â diddordeb i ymgorffori cynigion y grŵp ymgynghorol, i fyfyrio yn eu cylch ac i gyflwyno eu safbwyntiau a’u sylwadau ystyriol. Dosbarthwyd dros 1,000 o gopïau o adroddiad llawn y grŵp ymgynghorol a pharatowyd a dosbarthwyd, drwy ymgynghori â SCOVO a Rhoi Pobl yn Gyntaf Cymru Gyfan, fersiwn mwy hygyrch o’r adroddiad. Mae’r dogfennau hyn ar gael hefyd ar wefan y Cynulliad. I gynorthwyo’r broses ymgynghorol, mae’r Cynulliad wedi rhoi arian ychwanegol i Fforwm Rhieni a Gofalwyr Cymru Gyfan a SCOVO i’w galluogi i gynnal cyfarfodydd ymgynghori.

The advisory group’s report estimates that combined health and social services expenditure on learning disability services in 1999-2000 in Wales was about £193 million. This is a higher expenditure proportionately than in England or Scotland. However, the important issue is the quality of outcomes and life experiences for people with learning disabilities.

Mae adroddiad y grŵp ymgynghorol yn amcangyfrif mai tua £193 miliwn oedd gwariant cyfunol iechyd a gwasanaethau cymdeithasol ar wasanaethau anableddau dysgu yn 1999-2000 yng Nghymru. Mae hwn yn wariant uwch na Lloegr neu’r Alban. Fodd bynnag, yr hyn sy’n bwysig yw ansawdd y canlyniadau a phrofiadau bywyd i bobl ag anableddau dysgu.

Next year, in the light of the report and the consultation responses, we will need to decide what action to take on the development of policies that affect the lives of people with learning disabilities, and identify key priorities for action, together with a timescale. Meanwhile, I draw the advisory group’s report to the attention of all Assembly Members and invite them to respond.

Y flwyddyn nesaf, yng ngoleuni’r adroddiad a’r ymatebion i’r ymgynghoriad, bydd angen inni benderfynu pa gamau i’w cymryd ar ddatblygu polisïau sy’n effeithio ar fywydau pobl ag anableddau dysgu, a nodi blaenoriaethau allweddol ar gyfer gweithredu, ynghyd ag amserlen. Yn y cyfamser, tynnaf sylw Aelodau’r Cynulliad at adroddiad y grŵp ymgynghorol a’u gwahodd i ymateb.

We will have to reach decisions that will affect the lives of all people with learning disabilities, their families, and their carers. Let us ensure that those decisions are fully and properly informed. That is the responsibility and duty we owe to people with learning disabilities in Wales.

Bydd yn rhaid inni ddod i benderfyniadau a fydd yn effeithio ar fywydau pawb sydd ag anabledd dysgu, eu teuluoedd, a’u gofalwyr. Gadewch inni sicrhau y caiff y penderfyniadau hynny yn llawn a chywir. Dyna’r cyfrifoldeb a’r ddyletswydd sydd arnom i bobl ag anableddau dysgu yng Nghymru.

Cynog Dafis siaradwyd yn Gymraeg t. 67

Cynog Dafis spoken in Welsh p. 67

Mae gennyf rai sylwadau a chwestiynau. Yn gyntaf, llongyfarchaf y grŵp ar ei waith trwyadl. Mae wedi gosod amcanion uchelgeisiol ar sail yr hawl i bobl ag anableddau dysgu gael eu trin:

I have some comments and questions. First, I congratulate the group on its thorough work. It has set ambitious objectives, based on the right of people with learning disabilities to be treated as:

‘yn ddinasyddion llawn, cyfartal o ran statws a gwerth â dinasyddion eraill o’r un oed.’

‘full citizens equal in status and value to other citizens of the same age’.

Er hynny, mae’r adroddiad yn nodi:

However, the report notes that:

‘bydd angen buddsoddiad ychwanegol sylweddol eto er mwyn cwrdd â newidiadau demograffig a’r cynigion sydd yn yr Adroddiad.’

‘further considerable additional investment will be required to meet demographic changes and the proposals in this Report.’

Pryd y bydd y Gweinidog yn gwybod faint o fuddsoddiad ychwanegol y bydd ei angen, a phryd y bydd yn rhoi gwybod i’r Cynulliad? A yw’n credu y bydd modd darparu’r cyllid ychwanegol hwnnw, a thros ba gyfnod? A yw’n cytuno bod y galw hwn am adnoddau yn ddadl arall dros fynnu setliad ariannol i’r Cynulliad sy’n cyfateb i anghenion Cymru?

When will the Minister know how much additional investment will be needed, and when will she inform the Assembly? Does she believe that it will be possible to provide that additional funding, and over what period? Does she agree that this demand for resources is another argument for insisting on a financial settlement for the Assembly that corresponds to the needs of Wales?

Gŵyr y Gweinidog bod tystiolaeth Mencap yn dangos bod safon y ddarpariaeth yn amrywio’n fawr ar draws Cymru. A oes cynlluniau i sicrhau bod llawer mwy o gysondeb rhwng yr awdurdodau lleol, a bod lefel y ddarpariaeth yn cael ei chodi?

The Minister knows that Mencap’s evidence shows that the standard of provision varies greatly across Wales. Are there plans to ensure a much greater consistency between local authorities, and that the level of provision is increased?

Cyfeiria’r adroddiad at yr angen i sicrhau cyfle i bobl ag anableddau dysgu symud o addysg i gyflogaeth. Beth yw ei bwriadau yn y maes hwnnw? Gan ei bod wedi cynnal trafodaethau â’r Gweinidog Addysg a Dysgu Gydol Oes ynglŷn â sicrhau profiad gwaith i fyfyrwyr ag anableddau dysgu mewn ysgolion a cholegau fel ffordd i baratoi at y byd gwaith, fe fydd yn ymwybodol, efallai, o waith Mencap yn y maes hwn, megis prosiect Pathway yn y De-ddwyrain.

The report refers to the need to ensure that people with learning disabilities have an opportunity to move from education to employment. What are her intentions in that area? As she has had discussions with the Minister for Education and Lifelong Learning with regard to ensuring that students with learning disabilities in schools and colleges have work experience as a way of preparing for the world of work, she will, perhaps, be aware of Mencap’s work in this area, such as the Pathway project in south-east Wales.

Yr oeddwn yn falch o weld bod hawl pobl ag anableddau dysgu i benderfynu drostynt eu hunain yn un o bedair egwyddor y ddogfen. A yw’n derbyn grym dadl mudiad Fair Choice ynglŷn â’r hawl honno? A fydd yn gwarantu y perchir yr hawl honno os bydd rhywun yn awyddus i fyw mewn cymuned bentrefol fel cymuned mudiad Rudolf Steiner yn Rhandir-mwyn? A yw’n derbyn ei bod yn annerbyniol fod rhieni’n gorfod brwydo’n hir a chaled, a mynd i gyfraith ambell waith, i ennill yr hawl honno i’w plant? A wnaiff sicrhau y rhoddir cyfarwyddyd clir i adrannau’r gwasanaethau cymdeithasol i barchu’r hawl i ddewis, ac na ddylai unrhyw ragfarnau ideolegol gan bobl broffesiynol fod yn drech na’r hawl honno? Yr wyf yn ei hannog i ymweld â’r gymuned bentrefol yn Rhandir-mwyn, a’r lleoedd cysylltiedig yn Llangadog a’r cyffiniau, er mwyn iddi werthfawrogi’r gwaith ysbrydoledig a wneir yn y lleoedd hynny.

I was pleased to see that the right of people with learning disabilities to decide for themselves is one of the document’s four principles. Does she accept the force of the Fair Choice movement’s argument about that right? Will she guarantee that that right will be respected if someone wishes to live in a village community, such as that of the Rudolf Steiner movement in Rhandir-mwyn? Does she accept that it is unacceptable that parents must battle long and hard—instigating legal proceedings in some cases—to gain that right for their children? Will she ensure that social services departments are given clear directions on respecting the right to choose, and that no ideological prejudice by professional people should over-ride that right? I urge her to visit the village community in Rhandir-mwyn, and the associated locations in Llangadog and the Llangadog area, so that she can appreciate the inspired work being done in these places.

Jane Hutt spoken in English p. 69

Jane Hutt siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 69

I agree that the advisory group has carried out thorough work, and has produced an ambitious and comprehensive agenda. The purpose of the advisory group was to take forward the principles of the 1983 all-Wales strategy—which was far-sighted in its policy, ambitions, and outlines—into the twenty-first century. The way in which we do this, and the resources needed are critical. The advisory group has estimated that to implement their proposals in full would require £120 million additional resources over the first three years, rising yearly over the remaining 10-year period. Therefore this is a key issue for the whole Assembly. As you said, it is not only relevant to health and social services, but to all of our policy areas, including life-long learning, supported housing, and all of the options and arrangements that we need to make available for people with learning disabilities. Of course we need to consider how the outcomes of this consultation would be implemented over a 10-year period, and the Assembly must return to this issue to deal with budget preparation.

Cytunaf fod y grŵp ymgynghorol wedi cyflawni gwaith trylwyr, ac wedi cynhyrchu agenda uchelgeisiol a chynhwysfawr. Pwrpas y grŵp ymgynghorol oedd datblygu egwyddorion strategaeth Cymru gyfan 1983—a oedd yn bellgyrhaeddol yn ei pholisi, dyheadau, a’i brasluniau—yn yr unfed ganrif ar hugain. Mae’r modd y gwnawn hyn, a’r adnoddau sydd eu hangen yn holl bwysig. Amcangyfrifodd y grŵp ymgynghorol y byddai angen £120 miliwn yn ychwanegol o ran adnoddau dros y tair blynedd cyntaf, gan godi bob blwyddyn dros y cyfnod 10 mlynedd a oedd yn weddill, i weithredu eu cynigion yn llawn. Felly mae hwn yn fater allweddol i’r Cynulliad cyfan. Fel y dywedasoch, nid i iechyd a gwasanaethau cymdeithasol yn unig y mae’n berthnasol, ond i bob un o’n meysydd polisi, gan gynnwys dysgu gydol oes, tai a gynorthwyir, a phob un o’r opsiynau a’r trefniadau y mae angen inni sicrhau eu bod ar gael i bobl ag anableddau dysgu. Wrth gwrs mae angen inni ystyried sut y câi canlyniadau’r ymgynghoriad hwn eu gweithredu dros gyfnod o 10 mlynedd, a rhaid i’r Cynulliad ddychwelyd at y mater hwn i ddelio â pharatoi’r gyllideb.

We are looking for a strategic all-Wales approach to opportunities and rights—and in many ways Wales led the way with its all-Wales strategy. However, we must also recognise that we are putting out 17 service priorities, and a service framework which we would expect our partners to abide by when commissioning and arranging their services. The advisory group was representative as it included a range of organisations, as well as the statutory sector, and as such it was able to consider issues on the kinds of options required by people with learning disabilities. I have visited, and have contact with many people who use such community facilities as you describe, and I know that that is an important choice in people’s lives, as it provides the continuity that they and their families need. Therefore we must take those issues on board, and I know that consultation will address that.

Yr ydym yn edrych am ymagwedd strategol Cymru gyfan tuag at gyfleoedd a hawliau—ac mewn sawl ffordd mae Cymru wedi bod ar flaen y gad gyda’i strategaeth Cymru gyfan. Fodd bynnag, rhaid inni gydnabod hefyd ein bod yn cyflwyno 17 o flaenoriaethau o ran gwasanaethau, a fframwaith gwasanaeth y disgwyliem i’n partneriaid lynu wrtho pan fyddant yn comisiynu ac yn trefnu eu gwasanaethau. Yr oedd y grŵp ymgynghorol yn gynrychioliadol gan ei fod yn cynnwys ystod o sefydliadau, yn ogystal â’r sector statudol, ac fel y cyfryw yr oedd yn gallu ystyried materion am y mathau o opsiynau sydd eu hangen ar bobl ag anableddau dysgu. Ymwelais, ac yr wyf mewn cysylltiad â llawer o bobl sy’n defnyddio cyfleusterau cymunedol fel y disgrifiwch, a gwn ei fod yn ddewis pwysig ym mywydau pobl, gan ei fod yn darparu’r parhad sydd ei angen arnynt hwy a’u teuluoedd. Felly, rhaid inni ystyried y materion hynny, a gwn y bydd yr ymgynghori yn ymdrin â hynny.

Karen Sinclair spoken in English p. 70

Karen Sinclair siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 70

While I welcome your statement today on this excellent document, I want to highlight a couple of areas, which I feel are important if we intend to fulfil promises. In recent years, after the all-Wales strategy moneys, we have seen a reduction in moneys identified with the provision for learning disabilities, specifically within local authorities. We must ensure that there is a significant long-term financial investment, clearly identified and protected, to ensure that we meet the needs of an increased number of people with learning disabilities. More babies with profound disabilities are surviving due to increased medical care, and we need to ensure that we provide for them so that their lives can be as full and as dignified as possible. People with learning disabilities live longer now than in the past, and while this must be applauded, it has cost implications. I urge you to identify and protect such moneys at the outset.

Er fy mod yn croesawu eich datganiad heddiw ar y ddogfen ragorol hon, yr wyf am bwysleisio rhai meysydd y teimlaf eu bod yn bwysig os ydym yn bwriadu cyflawni addewidion. Dros y blynyddoedd diwethaf, ar ôl arian strategaeth Cymru gyfan, gwelsom ostyngiad yn yr arian a nodwyd gyda’r ddarpariaeth ar gyfer anableddau dysgu, yn benodol o fewn awdurdodau lleol. Rhaid inni sicrhau bod buddsoddiad ariannol hirdymor sylweddol ar gael, wedi’i nodi’n glir a’i ddiogelu, er mwyn sicrhau ein bod yn diwallu anghenion y nifer gynyddol o bobl ag anableddau dysgu. Mae mwy o fabanod ag anableddau difrifol yn goroesi oherwydd gwell gofal meddygol, ac mae angen inni sicrhau ein bod yn darparu ar eu cyfer hwy fel y gallant fyw eu bywydau mor llawn ac urddasol â phosibl. Mae pobl ag anableddau dysgu yn byw yn hwy yn awr nag yr oeddent yn y gorffennol, ac er bod yn rhaid canmol hyn, mae iddo oblygiadau o ran costau. Fe’ch anogaf i nodi a diogelu arian o’r fath o’r cychwyn cyntaf.

It is also imperative, in my opinion, to separate advocacy provision from service provision, financially, in order to protect the integrity and impartiality of advocates. This is the only way to ensure protection of the rights of individuals. I urge you, therefore, to ensure that there is a clear separation, and would like your views on this.

Yn fy marn i, mae’n hanfodol hefyd ein bod yn gwahanu darpariaeth eiriolaeth oddi wrth ddarpariaeth gwasanaeth, yn ariannol, er mwyn diogelu cywirdeb a didueddrwydd eiriolwyr. Dyma’r unig ffordd o sicrhau y diogelir hawliau unigolion. Fe’ch anogaf, felly, i sicrhau bod gwahaniad clir, a hoffwn glywed eich barn ar hynny.

Lastly, I would like to emphasise that ongoing monitoring of service provision is imperative to the protection of the rights of people with learning disabilities, who cannot protect or represent their rights for themselves.

Yn olaf, hoffwn bwysleisio fod monitro darpariaeth gwasanaeth yn barhaus yn hanfodol i ddiogelu hawliau pobl ag anableddau dysgu, na allant ddiogelu na chynrychioli eu hawliau eu hunain.

Jane Hutt spoken in English p. 70

Jane Hutt siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 70

Those are important points. I said in my statement that we are spending £193 million from the Health and Social Services budget on learning disabilities in Wales. There has been a different arrangement, of which you will be aware, in that we are transferring the disability grant resources into the revenue support grant. I have discussed that issue with the All Wales Forum of Parents and Carers. It relates to the Assembly’s direct grant to local authorities to support community-based services for people with learning disabilities That total sum is £28 million a year. We are, with the support of the University of York, considering ways in which we can look at the remainder of the resources in terms of a methodology to move it into the revenue support grant. Discussions must take place involving local government and the Assembly that take on board the concerns of parents and carers about the resources at the community-based level. Much of our resources is going into the resettlement programme. Last year, the Assembly made an additional £25 million over three years available for the resettlement programmes. That will enable the completion of the Hensol hospital resettlement of some 80 people. There is a comprehensive resettlement plan for Bryn y Neuadd, which did not exist when the National Assembly came into being.

Mae’r rheini’n bwyntiau pwysig. Dywedais yn fy natganiad ein bod yn gwario £193 miliwn o’r gyllideb Iechyd a Gwasanaethau Cymdeithasol ar anableddau dysgu yng Nghymru. Fe fu trefniant gwahanol, y byddwch yn ymwybodol ohono, yn yr ystyr ein bod yn trosglwyddo’r adnoddau ar gyfer grant anabledd i’r grant cynnal refeniw. Trafodais y mater hwnnw gyda Fforwm Rhieni a Gofalwyr Cymru Gyfan. Mae’n ymwneud â grant uniongyrchol y Cynulliad i awdurdodau lleol er mwyn cynnal gwasanaethau cymunedol i bobl ag anableddau dysgu. Mae hynny’n gyfanswm o £28 miliwn y flwyddyn. Yr ydym, gyda chefnogaeth Prifysgol Efrog, yn ystyried ffyrdd o edrych ar weddill yr adnoddau o ran methodoleg i’w symud i’r grant cynnal refeniw. Rhaid cynnal trafodaethau gyda llywodraeth leol a bydd y Cynulliad yn ystyried pryderon rhieni a gofalwyr ynglŷn â’r adnoddau ar lefel gymunedol. Defnyddir llawer o’n hadnoddau yn y rhaglen adleoli. Y llynedd, sicrhaodd y Cynulliad fod £25 miliwn ychwanegol dros dair blynedd ar gael i’r rhaglenni adleoli. Bydd hynny’n golygu y gellir cwblhau rhaglen adleoli sy’n cynnwys tua 80 o bobl yn ysbyty Hensol. Mae cynllun adleoli cynhwysfawr ar gyfer Bryn y Neuadd, nad oedd yn bodoli pan ddaeth y Cynulliad Cenedlaethol i fodolaeth.

That is a costly part of the learning disabilities expenditure. We must ensure that we will provide robust community services and that we improve in terms of the unevenness that has been identified throughout Wales. Some of that is monitored and comes up through our social services joint reviews, which consider learning disabilities as part of their remit and audit. We must ensure throughout Wales that we are not just developing minimum standards, but the best practice through partnership. The strategy will help us do that.

Mae hynny’n rhan gostus o’r gwariant ar anableddau dysgu. Rhaid inni sicrhau y darparwn wasanaethau cymunedol cadarn ac y byddwn yn gwella o ran yr anghysondeb a nodwyd ledled Cymru. Caiff rhywfaint o hynny ei fonitro a daw i’r golwg yn adolygiadau ar y cyd y gwasanaethau cymdeithasol, sy’n ystyried anableddau dysgu fel rhan o’u cylch gwaith a’u harchwiliad. Rhaid inni sicrhau nad ydym yn datblygu isafswm safonau yn unig ledled Cymru, ond yr arfer gorau drwy bartneriaeth. Bydd y strategaeth yn ein helpu i wneud hynny.

We are also putting £500,000 into the core activities of key organisations in the voluntary sector, which are important in driving forward our policy agenda. I recently announced £185,000 for Mencap Cymru. That is for the development of its independent support and information service.

Yr ydym hefyd yn buddsoddi £500,000 yng ngweithgareddau craidd sefydliadau allweddol yn y sector gwirfoddol, sy’n bwysig er mwyn hyrwyddo ein hagenda polisi. Cyhoeddais yn ddiweddar fod £185,000 ar gael i Mencap Cymru i ddatblygu ei wasanaeth cefnogi a gwybodaeth annibynnol.

That brings us to advocacy, which is key and is one of the service priorities in this strategy. Independent advocacy must be a key to the future for an inclusive society where the rights of people with learning disabilities are respected. We must evaluate what we currently have in terms of access to advocacy and develop and regulate it on a national basis. We should examine citizen advocacy, self-advocacy and paid advocacy so that it is not dependent on the goodwill of some voluntary organisations. We should also take into account the disability rights taskforce report. Advocacy is key and I am glad that Karen raised this matter today.

Daw hynny â ni at eiriolaeth, sy’n allweddol ac yn un o flaenoriaethau gwasanaeth yn y strategaeth hon. Rhaid i eiriolaeth annibynnol fod yn allwedd i’r dyfodol ar gyfer cymdeithas gynhwysol lle y perchir hawliau pobl ag anableddau dysgu. Rhaid inni werthuso’r hyn sydd gennym ar hyn o bryd o ran manteisio ar wasanaeth eirioli a’i ddatblygu a’i reoleiddio ar sail genedlaethol. Dylem archwilio eiriolaeth dinasyddion, hunaneiriolaeth ac eiriolaeth â thâl fel nad yw’n ddibynnol ar ewyllys da rhai o’r sefydliadau gwirfoddol. Dylem ystyried adroddiad y tasglu ar hawliau anabledd hefyd. Mae eiriolaeth yn holl bwysig ac yr wyf yn falch bod Karen wedi codi’r mater hwn heddiw.

David Melding spoken in English p. 72

David Melding siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 72

The Welsh Conservative Party warmly welcomes this consultation document on learning disabilities and how to improve services for that client group. Reference was rightly made to the 1983 strategy. It is rather humbling to remember that when you read social care reference books, often the only entry under Wales is the 1983 strategy. It was ground breaking, but in many ways we have perhaps not provided other examples of best practice. I hope that devolution allows us to develop other examples of best practice. However, there is a need to extend our vision because we have far wider horizons for the twenty-first century than we had in the early 1980s when assessors were often appalled at the inadequacy of these services, which lead to a new approach. I therefore welcome the comprehensive nature of this consultation document and all the subjects that it seeks to address: employment, recreation, housing, health, education and so on.

Mae Plaid Geidwadol Cymru yn croesawu’r ddogfen ymgynghorol hon ar anableddau dysgu a sut i wella gwasanaethau i’r grŵp hwnnw o gleientiaid. Cyfeiriwyd yn briodol at strategaeth 1983. Teimlaf braidd yn ddiymhongar pan gofiaf mai’r unig gofnod yn aml ar gyfer Cymru mewn cyfeirlyfrau gofal cymdeithasol yw strategaeth 1983. Yr oedd yn torri tir newydd, ond mewn sawl ffordd efallai nad ydym wedi darparu enghreifftiau eraill o arfer gorau. Gobeithiaf y bydd datganoli yn caniatáu inni ddatblygu enghreifftiau eraill o arfer gorau. Fodd bynnag, mae angen inni ymestyn ein gweledigaeth gan fod gennym orwelion ehangach o lawer ar gyfer yr unfed ganrif ar hugain nag oedd gennym yn yr 1980au cynnar pan oedd aseswyr yn aml yn synnu at annigonolrwydd y gwasanaethau hyn, a arweiniodd at ymagwedd newydd. Croesawaf felly natur gynhwysfawr y ddogfen ymgynghorol hon a’r holl bynciau y mae’n ceisio ymdrin â hwy: cyflogaeth, hamdden, tai, iechyd, addysg ac yn y blaen.

On the consultation process, it is right that we have this opportunity to question you on the statement and make any responses we wish to the document. However, it is the responses of the service users that are crucial. I commend the work of the Standing Conference of Voluntary Organisations for People with a Learning Disability in Wales in enabling carers and users to respond to these consultation exercises. I was heartened to see that an accessible version of the report is available. I have not seen it, but I will make it my business to do so. That version indicates new and good practice.

O ran y broses ymgynghorol, mae’n briodol bod gennym y cyfle hwn i’ch holi ar y datganiad ac i wneud unrhyw ymatebion y dymunwn eu gwneud i’r ddogfen. Fodd bynnag, ymatebion y defnyddwyr gwasanaeth sy’n holl bwysig. Canmolaf waith Cynhadledd Sefydlog y Sefydliadau Gwirfoddol i Bobl ag Anabledd Dysgu yng Nghymru wrth alluogi gofalwyr a defnyddwyr i ymateb i’r ymarferion ymgynghori hyn. Fe’m calonogwyd i weld bod fersiwn hygyrch o’r adroddiad ar gael. Nid wyf wedi ei weld ond gwnaf yn siŵr fy mod yn ei weld. Mae’r fersiwn hwnnw yn nodi arfer newydd a da.

I emphasise the following from my experience of these issues, that is the need for person-centred planning. To remove the jargon, the idea that the plan should meet the needs of the person, rather than the person being squeezed into a plan based on the resources recognition of the need for accessible health services. People who suffer from Down’s syndrome often have cardiac complications when they reach early middle age. In the past, our services have not been responsive to that group.

Pwysleisiaf y canlynol o’m profiad o’r materion hyn, hynny yw yr angen am gynllunio sy’n canolbwyntio ar y person. I ddileu’r jargon, y syniad y dylai’r cynllun ddiwallu anghenion y person, yn hytrach na’r person yn cael ei wasgu i mewn i gynllun yn seiliedig ar gydnabod yr adnoddau sydd eu hangen ar gyfer gwasanaethau iechyd hygyrch. Yn aml mae gan bobl sy’n dioddef o syndrom Down gymhlethdodau’r galon pan gyrhaeddant ganol oed cynnar. Yn y gorffennol, ni fu ein gwasanaethau yn ymatebol i’r grŵp hwnnw.

I commend the work of the learning disability advisory group in drafting this paper. I emphasise the need to consider the overall amount of resources and how they will be delivered. A shift will be required. I am relaxed about local authorities having this responsibility, if they do spend the money. However, we must consider ringfencing if there is much leakage from the allocation to local authorities.

Canmolaf waith y grŵp ymgynghorol ar anableddau dysgu wrth ddrafftio’r papur hwn. Pwysleisiaf yr angen i ystyried cyfanswm cyffredinol yr adnoddau a sut y cânt eu cyflwyno. Bydd angen newid. Yr wyf yn ddigon bodlon i’r awdurdodau lleol gael y cyfrifoldeb hwn, os gwariant yr arian. Fodd bynnag, rhaid inni ystyried neilltuo arian penodol os defnyddir llawer o’r arian a ddyrennir i awdurdodau lleol.

Jane Hutt spoken in English p. 73

Jane Hutt siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 73

The all-Wales strategy of 1983 was groundbreaking. It predated devolution and showed what Wales could achieve. Unfortunately, as with many other groundbreaking initiatives, it was introduced as a result of inadequacy. One thinks of the Ely hospital situation. The Government of the day and the then Secretary of State for Wales, Nicholas Edwards, acted and an all-Wales strategy was created. As David said, that strategy is mentioned in the textbooks. But we must not leave our provision there, though, as I have said consistently, it builds on those sound principles and moves us to the wider horizons of the twenty-first century. We acknowledge that we are making progress. We have a plan for the resettlement programme, which was key in the early days of the all-Wales strategy.

Torrodd strategaeth Cymru gyfan 1983 dir newydd. Fe’i lluniwyd cyn datganoli a dangosodd yr hyn y gallai Cymru ei gyflawni. Yn anffodus, fel gyda chymaint o fentrau arloesol eraill, fe’i cyflwynwyd o ganlyniad i annigonolrwydd. Mae rhywun yn meddwl am sefyllfa ysbyty Trelái. Gweithredodd y Llywodraeth ac Ysgrifennydd Gwladol Cymru ar y pryd, Nicholas Edwards, a chrëwyd strategaeth Cymru gyfan. Fel y dywedodd David, sonnir am y strategaeth honno yn y gwerslyfrau. Ond ni ddylem adael ein darpariaeth yno, er, fel y dywedais droeon, mae’n adeiladu ar yr egwyddorion cadarn hynny ac yn ein symud i orwelion ehangach yr unfed ganrif ar hugain. Rhaid inni gydnabod ein bod yn gwneud cynnydd. Mae gennym gynllun ar gyfer y rhaglen adleoli, a oedd yn allweddol yn nyddiau cynnar strategaeth Cymru gyfan.

We must ensure that the most important people involved in the consultation will be the service users, namely those with learning disabilities, their carers and their families. I am delighted that we can help SCOVO and the all-Wales forum for parents and carers. The Assembly is giving money to organisations to help them consult on this. It is no good to expect them to use their own resources, which are already stretched. The responses of groups of people and organisations will be key.

Rhaid inni sicrhau mai’r bobl bwysicaf yn yr ymgynghoriad fydd y defnyddwyr gwasanaeth, sef y rheini ag anableddau dysgu, eu gofalwyr a’u teuluoedd. Yr wyf yn falch ein bod yn gallu helpu SCOVO a fforwm rhieni a gofalwyr Cymru gyfan. Mae’r Cynulliad yn rhoi arian i sefydliadau i’w helpu i ymgynghori ar hyn. Ni waeth heb â disgwyl iddynt ddefnyddio eu hadnoddau eu hunain, sydd eisoes o dan bwysau mawr. Bydd ymatebion y grwpiau o bobl a’r sefydliadau yn allweddol.

David made important points about the person-centred approach. The group recognises that the care assessment arrangements introduced under the National Health Service and Community Care Act 1990 are not sufficiently needs-led. We must return to the person-centred approach, the individual planning approach, which puts the person at the centre, and remove the jargon. We must recognise that we must plan for their health needs for the duration of their lives. In particular, we have to plan for the health needs of adults with learning disabilities. Many people are born with learning disabilities which only become more pressing and in need of attention in later life.

Gwnaeth David bwyntiau pwysig ynglŷn â’r ymagwedd sy’n canolbwyntio ar y person. Bu i’r grŵp gydnabod nad yw’r trefniadau asesu gofal a gyflwynwyd o dan Ddeddf y Gwasanaeth Iechyd Gwladol a Gofal Cymunedol 1990 wedi’u harwain yn ddigonol gan anghenion. Rhaid inni ddychwelyd at yr ymagwedd sy’n canolbwyntio ar y person, yr ymagwedd cynllunio ar gyfer yr unigolyn, sy’n rhoi’r person yn y canol, ac yn dileu’r jargon. Rhaid inni gydnabod bod yn rhaid inni gynllunio ar gyfer eu hanghenion iechyd ar hyd eu hoes. Yn arbennig, rhaid inni gynllunio ar gyfer anghenion iechyd oedolion ag anableddau dysgu. Caiff llawer o bobl eu geni ag anableddau dysgu sydd ond yn dod yn fwy o broblem ac angen sylw arnynt yn ddiweddarach.

We must ensure that resources are effectively allocated and distributed. That must be done in partnership, with social services taking the lead. A key question in the advisory group’s report is how we can ensure that the outcomes are positive and reflect our investment. I am sure that this will be the subject of vigorous debate in the consultation. We must take it forward.

Rhaid inni sicrhau y caiff adnoddau eu dyrannu a’u dosbarthu’n effeithiol. Rhaid gwneud hynny mewn partneriaeth, gyda gwasanaethau cymdeithasol yn arwain y blaen. Un o’r cwestiynau allweddol yn adroddiad y grŵp ymgynghorol yw sut y gallwn sicrhau bod y canlyniadau yn gadarnhaol ac yn adlewyrchu ein buddsoddiad. Yr wyf yn siŵr y bydd hyn yn destun dadl rymus yn yr ymgynghoriad. Rhaid inni weithredu ar hynny.

Mick Bates spoken in English p. 74

Mick Bates siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 74

The Welsh Liberal Democrats welcome the advisory group’s report. The group’s membership has a comprehensive breadth of experience and expertise, as can be seen in the nature of the report. It is wide-ranging and detailed and presents the Assembly with a comprehensive plan for services and support for people with learning disabilities, to ensure that they can lead a full life in their communities and realise their potential. The report is impressive in its scope. The service framework is detailed and provides for all services and support. It encompasses not only NHS services and social services but also education, training, employment, life skills and housing. The Welsh Liberal Democrats welcome all priorities set out in the report and take on board the report’s stated view that they should all be pursued in parallel. However, I will make some comments on the report.

Croesawa Democratiaid Rhyddfrydol Cymru adroddiad y grŵp ymgynghorol. Mae gan aelodau’r grŵp brofiad ac arbenigedd helaeth, fel y gellir gweld yn ôl natur yr adroddiad. Mae’n bellgyrhaeddol ac yn fanwl ac yn rhoi cynllun cynhwysfawr i’r Cynulliad ar gyfer gwasanaethau a chefnogaeth i bobl ag anableddau dysgu, er mwyn sicrhau y gallant fyw bywyd llawn yn eu cymunedau a gwireddu eu potensial. Mae’r adroddiad yn drawiadol yn ei gwmpas. Mae’r fframwaith gwasanaethau yn fanwl ac yn darparu ar gyfer pob gwasanaeth a chymorth. Ymgorffora wasanaethau’r NHS a gwasanaethau cymdeithasol yn ogystal ag addysg, hyfforddiant, cyflogaeth, sgiliau bywyd a thai. Croesawa Democratiaid Rhyddfrydol Cymru yr holl flaenoriaethau a nodir yn yr adroddiad gan ystyried barn ddatganedig yr adroddiad y dylid gweithredu ar bob un ohonynt yn gyfartal. Fodd bynnag, gwnaf rai sylwadau ar yr adroddiad.

First, I want to highlight the recommendation that the target for resettlement of people with learning disabilities from long-stay hospitals and the closure of these hospitals should be brought forward from 2010 to 2006.

Yn gyntaf, yr wyf am amlygu’r argymhelliad y dylid dwyn y targed ar gyfer adleoli pobl ag anableddau dysgu o ysbytai arhosiad hir a chau’r ysbytai hyn ymlaen o 2010 i 2006.

My colleague, Kirsty Williams, who chairs the all-party resettlement monitoring group, has long campaigned for this. She also insisted that the partnership agreement should include a pledge on the resettlement of people with learning disabilities into their communities. I recognise that the Minister has done much good work on this, initially by securing £30 million to be spent over three years, and then an extra £25 million for community resettlement. It is through her commitment, as well as that of staff in hospitals, the community sector and voluntary organisations such as SCOVO and Mencap, that 2006 is now a viable target. We therefore urge the Minister to carefully consider setting 2006 as the new target for the closure of the remaining learning disability hospitals.

Mae fy nghyd-Aelod, Kirsty Williams, sy’n cadeirio’r grŵp monitro pob plaid ar adleoli, wedi ymgyrchu ers tro am hyn. Mynnodd hefyd y dylai’r cytundeb partneriaeth gynnwys addewid ynglŷn ag adleoli pobl ag anableddau dysgu yn eu cymunedau. Cydnabyddaf i’r Gweinidog wneud llawer o waith da ar hyn, i ddechrau drwy sicrhau £30 miliwn i’w wario dros dair blynedd, ac yna £25 miliwn ychwanegol ar gyfer adleoli cymunedol. Mae 2006 yn darged posibl erbyn hyn o ganlyniad i’w hymrwymiad hi, yn ogystal ag ymrwymiad staff mewn ysbytai, y sector cymunedol a sefydliadau gwirfoddol fel SCOVO a Mencap. Felly anogwn y Gweinidog i ystyried gosod 2006 fel y targed newydd ar gyfer cau yr ysbytai anableddau dysgu sy’n weddill.

There is also a recommendation that the Assembly should set targets to increase the number of people in the social care workforce in Wales with the appropriate qualifications in this important work. Sixty thousand people are employed in social care in Wales, including the voluntary and private sectors. Over 80 per cent of those people do not have the appropriate qualifications. The report suggests that, by 2005, all social care managers and 50 per cent of the social care workforce providing the services, should have an appropriate qualification. The Welsh Liberal Democrats urge the Minister to seriously consider this recommendation and, if practical and achievable, to ensure its implementation.

Mae argymhelliad hefyd y dylai’r Cynulliad osod targedau i gynyddu nifer y bobl yn y gweithlu gofal cymdeithasol yng Nghymru sy’n meddu ar y cymwysterau priodol yn y gwaith pwysig hwn. Cyflogir 60,000 o bobl ym maes gofal cymdeithasol yng Nghymru, gan gynnwys y sectorau gwirfoddol a phreifat. Nid oes gan dros 80 y cant o’r bobl hynny y cymwysterau priodol. Awgryma’r adroddiad y dylai pob rheolwr gofal cymdeithasol a 50 y cant o’r gweithlu gofal cymdeithasol sy’n darparu’r gwasanaethau feddu ar gymhwyster priodol erbyn 2005. Mae Democratiaid Rhyddfrydol Cymru yn annog y Gweinidog i ystyried yr argymhelliad hwn o ddifrif ac, os bydd yn ymarferol ac yn gyflawnadwy, i sicrhau y caiff ei weithredu.

On funding, there is more work to be done on establishing a flexible mechanism to allow local authorities to deal with special housing needs. There are many heartbreaking cases where there is plenty of goodwill but insufficient funding to refurbish or build homes to cater for the needs of families that often have more than one child with special needs as well as other children. Will the Minister ensure better co-ordination between departments to ensure that this funding will be forthcoming? Work co-ordination is also needed to ensure continuity of funding for the pre-16 and post-16 courses. There is often a breakdown in funding and I am sure that the Minister would wish to press all organisations to work together to ensure that the education and training services do not collapse due to lack of funding.

O ran ariannu, mae llawer mwy o waith i’w wneud ar sefydlu dull hyblyg o ganiatáu i awdurdodau lleol ddelio ag anghenion arbennig o ran tai. Mae sawl achos torcalonnus lle mae digon o ewyllys da ond dim digon o arian i adnewyddu neu adeiladu cartrefi i ddiwallu anghenion teuluoedd sydd yn aml â mwy nag un plentyn ag anghenion arbennig yn ogystal â phlant eraill. A wnaiff y Gweinidog sicrhau gwell cyd-gysylltiad rhwng adrannau i sicrhau y daw’r arian hwn? Mae angen cyd-gysylltu o ran gwaith hefyd er mwyn sicrhau y bydd arian ar gael ar gyfer cyrsiau cyn-16 ac ôl-16. Yn aml mae prinder arian ac yr wyf yn siŵr y byddai’r Gweinidog am bwyso ar bob sefydliad i weithio gyda’i gilydd i sicrhau nad yw’r gwasanaethau addysg a hyfforddiant yn methu oherwydd diffyg arian.

Finally, I welcome the recommendation for a centrally-funded advocacy service. I will raise this point with the Minister at the ‘Think Positive’ day in Builth Wells. Will the Minister ensure that such a service will always give patients a full range of options, particularly those who are to receive electro-convulsive therapy?

Yn olaf, croesawaf yr argymhelliad ar gyfer gwasanaeth eirioli wedi’i ariannu’n ganolog. Byddaf yn codi’r pwynt hwn gyda’r Gweinidog yn ystod y diwrnod ‘Meddwl yn Gadarnhaol’ yn Llanfair ym Muallt. A wnaiff y Gweinidog sicrhau y bydd gwasanaeth o’r fath yn rhoi ystod lawn o opsiynau i gleifion bob amser, yn arbennig y rhai a fydd yn cael therapi electrogynhyrfol.

Jane Hutt spoken in English p. 76

Jane Hutt siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 76

I thank Mick for his remarks. The advisory group is comprehensive and has produced an extremely good piece of work. On the resettlement programme, we are making progress. The Hensol Hospital resettlement programme had come to a full-stop. The £30 million and the extra £25 million over three years has enabled that to move forward. We anticipate that the Hensol Hospital resettlement programme will be completed by 2004, and the Bryn-y-Neuadd Hospital programme by 2006. Resettlement plans must be based on the needs of the individuals who are to be resettled, particularly when there are complex needs, which takes time and planning. The key point is that the money is available. Having visited Bryn-y-Neuadd before and after the announcement of £25 million, the latter occasion was far more positive because they knew that they were on their way and the resettlement would be achieved. The money is there, but the planning needs to be done. As I am sure that Kirsty Williams would know, there is a commitment to speed up the process; if the money and planning is ready, it will take place as quickly as possible.

Diolchaf i Mick am ei sylwadau. Mae’r grŵp ymgynghorol yn gynhwysfawr ac wedi cynhyrchu darn o waith arbennig o dda. O ran y rhaglen adleoli, yr ydym yn gwneud cynnydd. Yr oedd rhaglen adleoli Ysbyty Hensol wedi dod i ben yn llwyr. Mae’r £30 miliwn a’r £25 miliwn ychwanegol dros dair blynedd wedi galluogi hynny i symud ymlaen. Rhagwelwn y caiff rhaglen adleoli Ysbyty Hensol ei chwblhau erbyn 2004, a rhaglen Ysbyty Bryn-y-Neuadd erbyn 2006. Rhaid seilio cynlluniau adleoli ar anghenion yr unigolion a gaiff eu hadleoli, yn arbennig pan fydd ganddynt anghenion cymhleth, sy’n golygu amser a gwaith cynllunio. Y pwynt allweddol yw bod yr arian ar gael. Ymwelais â Bryn-y-Neuadd cyn ac ar ôl cyhoeddi bod £25 miliwn ar gael, a bu’r ymweliad olaf yn llawer mwy cadarnhaol gan eu bod yn gwybod eu bod ar eu ffordd ac y byddai’r gwaith adleoli yn cael ei gyflawni. Mae’r arian yno ond mae angen cynllunio. Fe wyddai Kirsty Williams, mae’n siŵr, fod ymrwymiad i gyflymu’r broses; os yw’r arian ar gael a’r gwaith cynllunio yn barod, bydd yn digwydd mor gyflym â phosibl.

Several important issues have been raised, including lifelong learning and appropriate housing in the community. We do not have enough appropriate housing at present, although we have taken great strides on this, working with registered social landlords in Wales and local authorities. This is a key issue for housing policy in terms of the supported housing programme. We must ensure that resources are provided for this in relation to the resettlement programme and to the future options of people with learning disabilities who may wish to move into different accommodation as their needs change. Advocacy, as we have mentioned, is key to the rights of people with learning disabilities. We must ensure that it is independent, robust, well funded and not a one-off. It must be sustainable for people with learning disabilities. Your points sum up many of the key objectives of the new advisory group’s plan, which we must implement.

Codwyd sawl mater pwysig, gan gynnwys dysgu gydol oes a thai addas yn y gymuned. Nid oes gennym ddigon o dai addas ar hyn o bryd, er inni gymryd camau breision mewn perthynas â hyn, gan weithio gyda landlordiaid cymdeithasol cofrestredig yng Nghymru ac awdurdodau lleol. Mae hwn yn fater allweddol ar gyfer polisi tai o ran y rhaglen tai a gynorthwyir. Rhaid inni sicrhau y darperir adnoddau ar gyfer hyn mewn perthynas â’r rhaglen adleoli ac â dewisiadau a fydd gan bobl ag anableddau dysgu yn y dyfodol a fydd am symud efallai i lety gwahanol wrth i’w hanghenion newid. Mae eiriolaeth, fel y soniwyd gennym, yn allweddol i hawliau pobl ag anableddau dysgu. Rhaid inni sicrhau ei bod yn annibynnol, cadarn, wedi’i hariannu’n dda ac nad yw’n enghraifft unigol. Rhaid iddi fod yn gynaliadwy i bobl ag anableddau dysgu. Mae eich pwyntiau yn crynhoi llawer o amcanion allweddol cynllun newydd y grŵp ymgynghorol, y mae’n rhaid inni eu gweithredu.

Dafydd Wigley siaradwyd yn Gymraeg t. 77

Dafydd Wigley spoken in Welsh p. 77

Fel un a fu’n ymwneud yn agos â strategaeth 1983, croesawaf y ffaith eich bod wedi talu teyrnged i Nicholas Edwards. Talaf innau deyrnged iddo hefyd. Efallai mai dyna’r peth gorau a wnaeth pan oedd yn Ysgrifennydd Gwladol dros Gymru. Croesawaf adroddiad Dr Oliver Russell, ond gofynnaf i Jane ddysgu’r gwersi a gododd o weithredu strategaeth 1983. Yn aml, yn arbennig yn yr ardaloedd blaengar, sef—os cofiaf yn iawn—Ynys Môn, Arfon a’r Rhondda, ar ôl i’r cyfnod ddod i ben yr oedd dirywiad.

As one who was closely involved with the 1983 strategy, I welcome the fact that you paid tribute to Nicholas Edwards. I also pay tribute to him. It was possibly the best thing that he did when he was Secretary of State for Wales. I welcome Dr Oliver Russell’s report, but I ask Jane to learn the lessons that arose from implementing the 1983 strategy. Often, in the vanguard areas in particular, namely—if I remember correctly—Anglesey, Arfon and Rhondda, there was a decline after the period ended.

Mae’n allweddol bwysig bod adnoddau tymor hir, fel y cyfeirir atynt ym mharagraff 1.4 o’r adroddiad, i sicrhau’r rhaglen. Ategaf a chefnogaf y pwynt am eiriolaeth. Mae’r ddarpariaeth yn rheidrwydd ym mhob rhan o Gymru fel bod gan bobl eu hawliau. Heb hynny, mae perygl i bobl golli allan. Yn olaf, ein rôl ni fel Cynulliad yw cydlynu’r hyn sydd yn digwydd, i fonitro a chadw llygad ar ddatblygiadau i sicrhau bod y gwasanaethau hyn a’r ddarpariaeth ar gael ym mhob rhan o Gymru.

It is vital that there are long-term resources, as referred to in paragraph 1.4 of the report, to secure the programme. I endorse and support the point about advocacy. That provision is a necessity in every part of Wales so that people have their rights. Without that, there is a danger that people will lose out. Finally, it is our role as an Assembly to co-ordinate what goes on, to monitor and keep an eye on developments to ensure that these services and provisions are available in all parts of Wales.

Jane Hutt spoken in English p. 77

Jane Hutt siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 77

We must learn lessons from the implementation of the All-Wales Mental Handicap Strategy. In terms of the issue of vanguard areas, decline and some of the unevenness of provision that has developed, we must consider how we distribute the resources. As I said earlier, half of the grant resources were transferred to the revenue support in 1997-8. We are now consulting on the best way to distribute the other half of resources, but it has resulted in some unevenness in the way services have developed. We must ensure that there are robust partnerships at local level, which include the service users. That leads on to your next point about advocacy. If we are going to plan for a national framework in Wales—which is what this is—local decision making, influenced by the people who use those services, with provision that can be guaranteed in terms of all of the service priorities that we have set, we must be clear about the guidance that we produce for local authorities. We must discuss with them and their partners how we implement it. Advocacy is key, but it goes back to the point of how we enable service users to influence policy development across the board. This is perhaps where we are progressing from the 1983 strategy. I hope that we have done a great deal in the Assembly to send this strong message that policy should be influenced by the people who use the services.

Rhaid inni ddysgu gwersi o weithredu’r Strategaeth Anfanteision Meddyliol i Gymru Gyfan. O ran ardaloedd blaengar, dirywiad a pheth o’r ddarpariaeth anghyson sydd wedi datblygu, rhaid inni ystyried sut i ddosbarthu’r adnoddau. Fel y dywedais yn gynharach, trosglwyddwyd hanner yr adnoddau grant i’r rhaglen cynnal refeniw yn 1997-98. Yr ydym yn ymgynghori yn awr ar y ffordd orau o ddosbarthu hanner arall yr adnoddau, ond mae wedi arwain at rywfaint o anghysondeb yn y ffordd y datblygodd gwasanaethau. Rhaid inni sicrhau bod partneriaethau cadarn ar lefel leol, sy’n cynnwys y defnyddwyr gwasanaeth. Mae hynny’n arwain at eich pwynt nesaf ynglŷn ag eiriolaeth. Os ydym i gynllunio fframwaith cenedlaethol yng Nghymru—a dyma yw hyn—proses o wneud penderfyniadau yn lleol, wedi ei dylanwadu gan y bobl sy’n defnyddio’r gwasanaethau hynny, gyda darpariaeth y gellir ei gwarantu o ran yr holl flaenoriaethau gwasanaeth a osodwyd gennym, rhaid inni fod yn glir ynglŷn â’r arweiniad a gynhyrchwn i awdurdodau lleol. Rhaid inni drafod y modd y gweithredwn hwn gyda hwy a’u partneriaid. Mae eiriolaeth yn allweddol, ond yn y bôn mae’n golygu’r modd y gall defnyddwyr gwasanaethau ddylanwadu ar ddatblygiad polisi yn gyffredinol. Efallai mai dyma lle y gallwn weld datblygiad ers strategaeth 1983. Gobeithiaf ein bod wedi gwneud llawer iawn yn y Cynulliad i gyfleu’r neges gref hon y dylai polisi gael ei ddylanwadu gan y bobl sy’n defnyddio’r gwasanaethau.

Gwenda Thomas spoken in English p. 78

Gwenda Thomas siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 78

I welcome the report of the Learning Disability Advisory Group and congratulate the members of the group on having produced a report that is comprehensive, easy to read and to understand. I commend your commitment to developing a service framework. I also welcome your response to Cynog Dafis’s reference to the residential centre at Rhandir-mwyn and to people’s right of choice. Referring to the report and the section on setting, priorities and targets, will you confirm that one priority for supporting children and families will be to clearly identify, as soon as possible, responsibility for administering medication during school hours?

Croesawaf adroddiad y Grŵp Ymgynghorol ar Anableddau dysgu a hoffwn longyfarch aelodau’r grŵp ar gynhyrchu adroddiad sy’n gynhwysfawr, yn hawdd i’w ddarllen a’i ddeall. Cymeradwyaf eich ymrwymiad i ddatblygu fframwaith gwasanaeth. Croesawaf eich ymateb hefyd i gyfeiriad Cynog Dafis at y ganolfan breswyl yn Rhandir-mwyn ac i hawl pobl i ddewis. Gan gyfeirio at yr adroddiad a’r adran ar osod targedau a blaenoriaethau, a gadarnhewch mai un flaenoriaeth ar gyfer cynnal plant a theuluoedd fydd nodi’n glir, cyn gynted â phosibl, pwy sy’n gyfrifol am roi meddyginiaeth yn ystod oriau ysgol?

Jane Hutt spoken in English p. 78

Jane Hutt siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 78

You have bought that issue to my attention in another setting. The administration is taking this issue forward prior to the results of the consultation.

Daethoch â’r mater hwnnw i’m sylw ar adeg arall. Mae’r weinyddiaeth yn gweithredu ar y mater hwn cyn canlyniadau’r ymgynghoriad.

Dafydd Elis-Thomas The Presiding Officer spoken in English p. 78

Dafydd Elis-Thomas Y Llywydd siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 78

The motion to approve The Prescribed Waste Wales (No.2) Regulations has been withdrawn.

Tynnwyd y cynnig i gymeradwyo Rheoliadau Gwastraff Rhagnodedig Cymru (Rhif 2) yn ôl.

Pwyntiau o Drefn

Points of Order

Nick Bourne spoken in English p. 79

Nick Bourne siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 79

Point of order. I have given the Minister involved, namely the Minister for Education and Lifelong Learning, advance notice of this point of order. It relates to answers to written questions, in particular a question that I tabled on 22 October, which should have received a response on 26 October, asking when she intended to announce a rural schools policy. I received a response this morning, informing me that she intended to do so on 31 October. It is a two sentence response. I do not understand why I did not have an immediate response. I am not suggesting that this is a conspiracy, but such a question could have received an immediate response. I do not understand why these questions are being answered late repeatedly when the answers are only passing on simple pieces of information.

Pwynt o drefn. Yr wyf wedi rhoi rhybudd ymlaen llaw o’r pwynt hwn o drefn i’r Gweinidog perthnasol, sef y Gweinidog dros Addysg a Dysgu Gydol Oes. Mae’n ymwneud ag atebion i gwestiynau ysgrifenedig, ac yn benodol i gwestiwn a gyflwynais ar 22 Hydref, y dylwn fod wedi cael ymateb iddo ar 26 Hydref, a ofynnodd pryd yr oedd yn bwriadu cyhoeddi polisi ysgolion gwledig. Cefais ateb y bore yma, gan roi gwybod imi ei bod yn bwriadu gwneud hynny ar 31 Hydref. Ateb dwy frawddeg ydyw. Ni ddeallaf pam na chefais ateb ar unwaith. Nid wyf yn awgrymu mai cynllwyn yw hwn, ond gallai cwestiwn o’r fath fod wedi cael ateb ar unwaith. Ni ddeallaf pam y caiff y cwestiynau hyn eu hateb yn hwyr yn rheolaidd pan mai dim ond trosglwyddo gwybodaeth syml sydd ei angen.

Dafydd Elis-Thomas The Presiding Officer spoken in English p. 79

Dafydd Elis-Thomas Y Llywydd siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 79

I am grateful for the advance notice that I was given of this point of order; it enables me to provide a brief, but specific response. I am sure Members will recall that on 17 July, the Assembly in Plenary approved a new edition of the guidelines affecting written questions, following discussion in the Business Committee. Those guidelines are available to Members, who will know that, under Standing Order No. 6.34, a question must be tabled at least five days before it is due to be answered. That does not prevent more notice from being given—for example if a Member wishes an answer to be given on a particular day. Where Members do not express a preferred date for answer, or express a preference for too early a date, the Table Office will put the question down for answer five days after the day of tabling. In the case of a question tabled less than eight days before it is due to be answered, it is sometimes impossible for an answer to be given on the due day. In such cases, Ministers have undertaken to provide an answer within 8 days. This may in rare cases be a ‘holding’ answer.

Yr wyf yn ddiolchgar am y rhybudd a gefais ymlaen llaw am y pwynt hwn o drefn; mae’n fy ngalluogi i roi ateb cryno penodol. Yr wyf yn siŵr y bydd yr Aelodau yn cofio i’r Cynulliad gymeradwyo mewn Cyfarfod Llawn ar 17 Gorffennaf rifyn newydd o’r canllawiau sy’n effeithio ar gwestiynau ysgrifenedig, yn dilyn trafodaeth yn y Pwyllgor Busnes. Mae’r canllawiau hynny ar gael i’r Aelodau, a fydd yn gwybod, o dan Reol Sefydlog Rhif 6.34, fod yn rhaid cyflwyno cwestiwn o leiaf pum niwrnod gwaith cyn y caiff ei ateb. Nid yw hynny’n golygu na ellir rhoi mwy o rybudd—er enghraifft os yw Aelod yn dymuno derbyn ateb erbyn dyddiad penodol. Os nad yw Aelodau’n dweud eu bod yn dymuno ateb erbyn dyddiad penodol neu nad ydynt yn dymuno ateb yn rhy fuan, bydd y Swyddfa Gyflwyno yn cyflwyno’r cwestiwn i’w ateb bum niwrnod gwaith wedi’r diwrnod y’i cyflwynwyd. Os caiff cwestiwn ei gyflwyno o fewn wyth diwrnod cyn y disgwylir iddo gael ei ateb, mae’n amhosibl weithiau ei ateb erbyn y diwrnod hwnnw. Os digwydd hynny, mae Gweinidogion wedi ymrwymo i ddarparu ateb o fewn yr wyth diwrnod. Dyma a elwir, mewn achosion arbennig o’r fath, yn ateb ‘a ddelir’.

In terms of this written question, the eight-day rule, the 26 October being the fifth day and 31 October being the eighth day, was met in the letter. However—

O ran y cwestiwn ysgrifenedig hwn, cydymffurfiwyd â’r rheol wyth diwrnod yn y llythyr, gan mai 26 Hydref oedd y pumed diwrnod a chan mai 31 Hydref oedd yr wythfed diwrnod. Fodd bynnag—

Nick Bourne spoken in English p. 80

Nick Bourne siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 80

With respect, Llywydd, that rule was not met.

Gyda phob parch, Lywydd, ni chydymffurfiwyd â’r rheol honno.

Dafydd Elis-Thomas The Presiding Officer spoken in English p. 80

Dafydd Elis-Thomas Y Llywydd siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 80

My understanding is that the answer was given on 31 October.

Deallaf i’r ateb gael ei roi ar 31 Hydref.

Nick Bourne spoken in English p. 80

Nick Bourne siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 80

I received the letter this morning.

Y bore yma y cefais y llythyr.

Dafydd Elis-Thomas The Presiding Officer spoken in English p. 80

Dafydd Elis-Thomas Y Llywydd siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 80

In which case, I will investigate this further. I see that the Government does not wish to comment.

Felly, byddaf yn ymchwilio ymhellach i’r mater hwn. Gwelaf nad yw’r Llywodraeth am ddweud unrhyw beth ar y mater.

Alun Pugh spoken in English p. 80

Alun Pugh siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 80

Point of order. I raise it under Standing Order No. 6.1. On Tuesday, Assembly Members were addressed by our Prime Minister, but I discovered yesterday that the public was not admitted to the public gallery for this important event. It is unacceptable that the Welsh public is locked out of its Assembly. We all know of the inadequate nature of this building, even if it comes as a shock to some London journalists who clearly need to get out more. However, at times of great pressure for space in the gallery, there must always be room for the Welshman or woman who wants to see or hear in person what is being done in its National Assembly. Will you make a statement to the Assembly on this matter next week? The Prime Minister is doing a great job for Wales and Britain; he deserves to be seen and heard.

Pwynt o drefn. Codaf y pwynt hwn o dan Reol Sefydlog Rhif 6.1. Ddydd Mawrth, anerchwyd Aelodau’r Cynulliad gan Brif Weinidog y DU, ond cefais wybod ddoe na chaniatawyd i’r cyhoedd ddod i’r oriel gyhoeddus ar gyfer y digwyddiad pwysig hwn. Nid yw’n dderbyniol bod pobl Cymru yn cael eu gwahardd rhag dod i mewn i’w Cynulliad hwy. Gŵyr pob un ohonom nad yw’r adeilad hwn yn ddigonol, hyd yn oed os bydd y ffaith honno yn syfrdanu rhai newyddiadurwyr o Lundain, y mae’n amlwg bod angen iddynt fynd allan fwy. Fodd bynnag, pan fydd lle yn brin iawn yn yr oriel, rhaid bod lle bob amser i Gymro neu Gymraes sydd am glywed yn uniongyrchol yr hyn a wneir yn y Cynulliad Cenedlaethol. A wnewch ddatganiad i’r Cynulliad ar y mater hwn yr wythnos nesaf? Mae Prif Weinidog y DU yn gwneud gwaith ardderchog i Gymru a Phrydain; mae’n haeddu cael ei weld a’i glywed.

Dafydd Elis-Thomas The Presiding Officer spoken in English p. 80

Dafydd Elis-Thomas Y Llywydd siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 80

I will not make a statement next week; I will make it now for the convenience of the Assembly, but I will return to it if further matters come to light. The meeting that was addressed by the Prime Minister of the UK on Tuesday was not a formal meeting of the Assembly in session, which was clear to everyone at the time. The Prime Minister was here as the First Minister’s guest and I was pleased to welcome him and, as Presiding Officer, to chair the session formally with party leaders’ consent. However, it was not a session of the Assembly. For that reason, the public gallery was not full of the public as would usually have been the case. I understand that there were discussions with No.10 Downing Street and it did not expect the public to be present but was content for Assembly staff to occupy the public gallery seats that were not occupied by the press. I am sure that Assembly Members do not object to our staff having had the opportunity to be here. The public session of the Assembly began just after 2 p.m. as normal, and the public was admitted.

Ni wnaf ddatganiad yr wythnos nesaf; fe’i gwnaf yn awr er hwylustod y Cynulliad, ond dychwelaf ato os bydd materion pellach yn dod wrth law. Nid oedd y cyfarfod a anerchwyd gan Brif Weinidog y DU ddydd Mawrth yn un o Gyfarfodydd Llawn ffurfiol y Cynulliad, a oedd yn amlwg i bawb ar y pryd. Yr oedd Prif Weinidog y DU wedi cael ei wahodd gan Brif Weinidog Cymru ac yr oedd yn bleser gennyf ei groesawu a chadeirio’r sesiwn yn ffurfiol gyda chaniatâd arweinwyr y pleidiau, fel y Llywydd. Fodd bynnag, nid oedd yn un o Gyfarfodydd Llawn y Cynulliad. Oherwydd hynny, nid oedd yr oriel gyhoeddus yn llawn o aelodau’r cyhoedd fel y byddai’n wir fel arfer. Deallaf i’r mater hwn gael ei drafod gyda Rhif 10, Stryd Downing, ac nad oedd yn disgwyl i’r cyhoedd fod yn bresennol ond yn fodlon i staff y Cynulliad fod yn seddi’r oriel gyhoeddus lle nad oedd aelodau’r wasg yn eistedd. Yr wyf yn siŵr nad yw Aelodau’r Cynulliad yn gwrthwynebu’r ffaith bod ein staff wedi cael y cyfle i fod yma. Dechreuodd cyfarfod cyhoeddus y Cynulliad ychydig ar ôl 2 p.m. fel arfer, a chaniatawyd i’r cyhoedd ddod i mewn.

Nick Bourne spoken in English p. 81

Nick Bourne siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 81

Further to that point of order, and to be helpful, perhaps it would be appropriate for Alun Pugh to take the matter up with No.10 Downing Street to see why it did not want the public present.

Ymhellach i’r pwynt hwnnw o drefn, ac er mwyn bod o gymorth, efallai y byddai’n briodol i Alun Pugh godi’r mater gyda Rhif 10 Stryd Downing i weld pam nad oedd am i’r cyhoedd fod yn bresennol.

Dafydd Elis-Thomas The Presiding Officer spoken in English p. 81

Dafydd Elis-Thomas Y Llywydd siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 81

Order. There were confidential discussions with the First Minister’s office, to which I am not party. However, there were certainly discussions with my office on matters concerning this building and its security. The lesson for the future is that we need a public gallery that can accommodate the public and any visitors.

Trefn. Cafwyd trafodaethau cyfrinachol gyda swyddfa Prif Weinidog Cymru, nad wyf yn rhan ohonynt. Fodd bynnag, mae’n sicr y cafwyd trafodaethau â’m swyddfa ynglŷn â materion ynghylch yr adeilad a’i ddiogelwch. Y wers i’w dysgu ar gyfer y dyfodol yw bod angen oriel gyhoeddus arnom gyda digon o le i’r cyhoedd ag unrhyw ymwelwyr.

Peter Rogers spoken in English p. 81

Peter Rogers siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 81

Point of order. I raise this under Standing Order No. 7.2, which relates to the rules of debate. In responding to my speech on Tuesday, the Minister for Rural Affairs said:

Pwynt o drefn. Codaf y pwynt hwn o dan Reol Sefydlog Rhif 7.2, sy’n ymwneud â rheolau dadlau. Wrth ymateb i’m haraith ddydd Mawrth, dywedodd y Gweinidog dros Faterion Gwledig:

‘Sometimes when Peter asks me to act, I can help, but sometimes what he asks me to do is illegal’.

‘Weithiau, pan ofynna Peter imi weithredu, gallaf helpu, ond weithiau mae’n gofyn imi wneud rhywbeth anghyfreithlon’.

Although I am always keen for the Minister to interpret rules fairly and flexibly in the interest of Welsh farming, I regard it as discourteous and totally untrue for the Minister to imply that, as an Assembly Member, I would ask him to pursue an activity that would constitute a criminal or civil offence. Should he not have been asked to reflect on his use of language?

Er fy mod bob amser yn awyddus i’r Gweinidog ddehongli’r rheolau mewn ffordd deg a hyblyg er budd diwydiant ffermio Cymru, ystyriaf fod y Gweinidog yn anghwrtais ac yn gwbl anghywir pan ensyniodd, y byddwn, fel Aelod o’r Cynulliad, yn gofyn iddo fynd ar drywydd gweithgaredd a fyddai’n dramgwydd troseddol neu dramgwydd sifil. Oni ddylid fod wedi gofyn iddo ystyried y ffordd y mae’n defnyddio iaith?

Dafydd Elis-Thomas The Presiding Officer spoken in English p. 82

Dafydd Elis-Thomas Y Llywydd siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 82

I have studied the Record of Proceedings and it might have been more felicitous for the Minister to have used the term ‘unlawful’, in the sense of it being beyond his powers in terms of the Assembly’s activity, rather than ‘illegal’. I will ask him to consider this matter further when he reads these remarks.

Yr wyf wedi astudio Cofnod y Trafodion ac efallai y byddai wedi bod yn fwy priodol i’r Gweinidog ddefnyddio’r gair ‘unlawful’, yn yr ystyr fod y mater y tu hwnt i’w bwerau o ran gweithgarwch y Cynulliad, yn hytrach na’r gair ‘illegal’. Gofynnaf iddo ystyried y mater hwn ymhellach pan fydd yn darllen y sylwadau hyn.

Peter Rogers spoken in English p. 82

Peter Rogers siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 82

On what are you basing the suggestion that he should use the term ‘unlawful’?

Ar ba sail yr awgrymwch y dylai ddefnyddio’r gair ‘unlawful’?

Dafydd Elis-Thomas The Presiding Officer spoken in English p. 82

Dafydd Elis-Thomas Y Llywydd siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 82

The term ‘unlawful’, in the sense of being beyond the Assembly’s powers, has been used regularly in our debates. It is not the same as the allegation of a criminal offence. I am trying to make that helpful distinction. If I am being obfuscatory rather than helpful, I will revisit the matter. The Minister in question may care to read this in the Record, and if he wishes to take it further, he can raise a point of order at a later date. I am grateful to Peter for giving me notice of this matter.

Defnyddiwyd y gair ‘unlawful’, sef bod y mater y tu hwnt i bwerau’r Cynulliad, yn rheolaidd yn ein dadleuon. Nid yw yr un peth â honiad o dramgwydd troseddol. Ceisiaf fod o gymorth wrth wahaniaethu rhwng y ddau beth. Os wyf yn drysu’r sefyllfa yn hytrach na bod o gymorth, ailystyriaf y mater. Efallai y bydd y Gweinidog dan sylw am ddarllen y sylwadau hyn yn y Cofnod, ac os bydd am fynd â’r mater ymhellach, gall godi pwynt o drefn yn ddiweddarach. Yr wyf yn ddiolchgar i Peter am roi rhybudd imi o’r mater hwn.

Rhodri Glyn Thomas siaradwyd yn Gymraeg t. 82

Rhodri Glyn Thomas spoken in Welsh p. 82

Pwynt o drefn. Codaf hyn o dan Reol Sefydlog Rhif 6.11 ar ddatganiadau Gweinidogion. Yn y datganiad ar y band llydan yng Nghymru, datganwyd:

Point of order. I raise this under Standing Order No. 6.11 on Ministers’ statements. The statement on broadband in Wales stated:

‘the initiative puts us ahead of the game in the UK and Europe.’

Mae diffyg cysondeb amlwg o ystyried bod y datganiad hwn yn awr yn llygad y cyhoedd, a bod y Gweinidog wedi cydnabod, mewn ateb i gwestiwn ar adroddiadau’r Gymdeithas Cydweithrediad a Datblygiad Economaidd ac Awdurdod Datblygu Cymru, ein bod ymhell y tu ôl i’r gêm yng Nghymru. A wnewch chi ofyn iddo ystyried y frawddeg honno a’i thynnu allan o’i ddatganiad rhag camarwain y cyhoedd ynghylch y sefyllfa honno?

There is an obvious lack of consistency, given that this statement is now in the public domain and that the Minister acknowledged, in answer to a question on reports by the Organisation for Economic Co-operation and Development and the Welsh Development Agency, that we are far behind the game in Wales. Will you ask him to consider that sentence and withdraw it from his statement as it may mislead the public on that situation?

Dafydd Elis-Thomas Y Llywydd siaradwyd yn Gymraeg t. 82

Dafydd Elis-Thomas The Presiding Officer spoken in Welsh p. 82

Nid yw cynnwys datganiadau Gweinidogion yn fater i mi cyn belled â’u bod mewn trefn. Mae Rhodri wedi cael cyfle i dynnu sylw at yr hyn y mae yn ei ystyried yn anghysondeb. Yr wyf yn sicr y bydd y cyhoedd a’r Gweinidog yn myfyrio ar yr hyn a ddywedodd.

The content of Ministers’ statements is not a matter for me as long as they are in order. Rhodri has had an opportunity to draw attention to what he considers is an inconsistency. I am certain that the public and the Minister will reflect on what he said.

Alun Cairns spoken in English p. 82

Alun Cairns siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 82

Point of order. I raise this under Standing Order No. 6.34, which relates to the tabling and answering of written Assembly questions. On 18 October, I tabled three written questions to the First Minister and the Economic Development Minister relating to the number of engagements that were accepted and rejected by the Economic Development Minister and First Minister since 6 July. They were due to be answered on 25 October. I have chased responses to them on several occasions, but I am still waiting. I received a formal response last night that the information was in the Minister’s private office awaiting clearance. That is clearly outside the timescale.

Pwynt o drefn. Codaf y pwynt hwn o dan Reol Sefydlog Rhif 6.34, sy’n ymwneud â chyflwyno ac ateb cwestiynau ysgrifenedig y Cynulliad. Ar 18 Hydref, cyflwynais dri chwestiwn ysgrifenedig i Brif Weinidog Cymru a’r Gweinidog dros Ddatblygu Economaidd ynglŷn â nifer yr ymrwymiadau sydd wedi’u derbyn a’u gwrthod ers 6 Gorffennaf. Dylwn fod wedi cael yr atebion ar 25 Hydref. Yr wyf wedi ceisio cael yr atebion sawl tro, ond yr wyf yn parhau i aros amdanynt. Cefais ateb ffurfiol neithiwr fod yr wybodaeth yn swyddfa breifat y Gweinidog yn aros i gael ei hawdurdodi. Mae’n amlwg nad yw hynny o fewn yr amserlen benodedig.

Dafydd Elis-Thomas The Presiding Officer spoken in English p. 83

Dafydd Elis-Thomas Y Llywydd siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 83

My response to this is similar to my earlier response to Nick Bourne. I will investigate this further. It falls within the agreed Assembly guidance on answering questions. I will investigate the detail of the dates and will respond to you.

Mae fy ateb i’r pwynt hwn yn debyg i’m hateb cynharach i Nick Bourne. Byddaf yn ymchwilio ymhellach i’r mater hwn. Mae’n dod o fewn canllawiau’r Cynulliad y cytunwyd arnynt ar ateb cwestiynau. Ymchwiliaf i fanylion y dyddiadau ac ymatebaf ichi.

Carwyn Jones The Minister for Rural Affairs spoken in English p. 83

Carwyn Jones Y Gweinidog dros Faterion Gwledig siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 83

Further to Peter Roger’s point of order, I did not catch what was just said, Llywydd, but I made the following comments on Tuesday. I said that I could not comment on any individual case and that there were times when Peter Rogers made requests for me to act, some of which I could assist with, some of which, if assistance were rendered would be illegal.

Ymhellach i bwynt Peter Rogers o drefn, ni chlywais yr hyn yr ydych newydd ei ddweud, Lywydd, ond gwneuthum y sylwadau canlynol ddydd Mawrth. Dywedais na allwn ddweud unrhyw beth am unrhyw achos unigol a phan ofynnai Peter imi weithredu, gallwn helpu weithiau, ond weithiau byddai’r cymorth y gofynnai amdano yn anghyfreithlon, neu ‘illegal’ yn Saesneg.

I heard what was said today about the use of the word ‘unlawful’. I will therefore adopt the word ‘unlawful’ and stand by what I said.

Clywais yr hyn a ddywedwyd heddiw am y defnydd o’r gair ‘unlawful’. Felly, byddaf yn mabwysiadu’r gair ‘unlawful’ gan gadw at yr hyn a ddywedais.

Dafydd Elis-Thomas The Presiding Officer spoken in English p. 83

Dafydd Elis-Thomas Y Llywydd siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 83

I am grateful to the Minister.

Yr wyf yn ddiolchgar i’r Gweinidog.

Nick Bourne spoken in English p. 83

Nick Bourne siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 83

Point of order. With regard to today’s proceedings, can we have a guide as to what will be the likely time of close of business?

Pwynt o drefn. O ran y trafodion heddiw, a allwch roi gwybod inni yn fras faint o’r gloch mae’r busnes yn debygol o ddod i ben?

Dafydd Elis-Thomas The Presiding Officer spoken in English p. 83

Dafydd Elis-Thomas Y Llywydd siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 83

I wish I knew. [Laughter.]

Byddai’n dda gennyf innau wybod. [Chwerthin.]

Daeth y Dirpwy Lywydd i’r Gadair am 12.10 p.m.

The Deputy Presiding Officer took the Chair at 12.10 p.m.

John Marek The Deputy Presiding Officer spoken in English p. 84

John Marek Y Dirprwy Lywydd siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 84

I do not know either. If we were to dispense with the next business, then we would still be late because I must allow half an hour for the short debate. I realise that the motion on the Annual Reports of the Chairs of the Regional Committees is important and I do not want to circumscribe debate on it. However, I appeal for short speeches lasting one or two minutes, if possible. If Members feel they have an important matter to raise, they may have five minutes and I will not seek to curtail them. However, I appeal for short speeches. I will take speeches from the Chairs of the Regional Committees first, and then any other speakers.

Ni wn innau ychwaith. Pe byddem yn hepgor y busnes nesaf, yna byddem yn dal i fod yn hwyr oherwydd bod yn rhaid imi ganiatáu hanner awr ar gyfer y ddadl fer. Sylweddolaf fod y cynnig ar Adroddiadau Blynyddol Cadeiryddion y Pwyllgorau Rhanbarth yn bwysig ac nid wyf am gyfyngu ar y ddadl arno. Fodd bynnag, erfyniaf arnoch i wneud areithiau byr a fydd ond yn parhau munud neu ddwy, lle y bo’n bosibl. Os bydd yr Aelodau yn credu bod ganddynt fater pwysig i’w godi, gallant siarad am bum munud ac ni cheisiaf gwtogi ar eu hareithiau. Fodd bynnag, erfyniaf arnoch i wneud areithiau byr. Cawn areithiau Cadeiryddion y Pwyllgorau Rhanbarth yn gyntaf, ac wedyn unrhyw siaradwyr eraill.

Adroddiadau Blynyddol Cadeiryddion y Pwyllgorau Rhanbarth

The Annual Reports of the Chairs of the Regional Committees

Ann Jones spoken in English p. 84

Ann Jones siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 84

I propose that

Cynigiaf fod

Ann Jones (continued) spoken in English p. 84

Ann Jones (parhad) siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 84

I will heed your remarks about being brief, given that the annual report of the North Wales Regional Committee is a comprehensive account of the views and issues considered by the Committee. During my year as Chair, the Committee members and I tried to improve public participation in the Committee and considered how the Assembly is perceived in north Wales. We worked hard to improve public attendance; we sent invitations to a wider range of organisations across north Wales and, in particular, to local grass-roots bodies. We dramatically improved our publicity arrangements and, as a result, attendance increased. Some 200 people attended the last meeting that I chaired—we even had to delay the start of the meeting to allow everyone to come in.

Byddaf yn talu sylw i’ch sylwadau am fod yn gryno, o ystyried bod adroddiad blynyddol Pwyllgor Rhanbarth y Gogledd yn adroddiad cynhwysfawr o’r safbwyntiau a’r materion a ystyriwyd gan y Pwyllgor. Yn ystod fy mlwyddyn fel Cadeirydd, ceisiodd aelodau’r Pwyllgor a minnau wella’r rhan y mae’r cyhoedd yn ei chwarae yn y Pwyllgor gan ystyried yr amgyffrediad o’r Cynulliad yn y Gogledd. Buom yn gweithio’n galed i wella faint o bobl sy’n dod; anfonwyd gwahoddiadau at amrywiaeth ehangach o sefydliadau ledled y Gogledd ac, yn benodol, i gyrff lleol ar lawr gwlad. Gwnaethom wella’n sylweddol ein trefniadau cyhoeddusrwydd ac, o ganlyniad, daeth mwy o bobl. Daeth tua 200 o bobl i’r cyfarfod diwethaf a gadeiriwyd gennyf—bu’n rhaid inni oedi hyd yn oed cyn dechrau’r cyfarfod i alluogi pawb i ddod i mewn.

By increasing public participation we have recognised that the Committee is a vital link between north Wales and the Assembly. More than two-thirds of the North Wales Regional Committee’s meetings allows for public participation. We also try to follow up on issues with the Ministers and Subject Committees. In view of the First Minster’s responsibility for co-ordinating policy in north Wales, he was issued with a standing invitation to attend all Committee meetings. Rhodri attended three meetings, in Porthmadog, Holyhead and Rhyl, and held open question sessions. They were immensely popular with the public and I thank Rhodri for holding them.

Drwy gynyddu nifer y cyhoedd sy’n cymryd rhan, yr ydym wedi cydnabod bod y Pwyllgor yn gyswllt hanfodol rhwng y Gogledd a’r Cynulliad. Mae mwy na dwy ran o dair o gyfarfodydd Pwyllgor Rhanbarth y Gogledd yn caniatáu i’r cyhoedd gymryd rhan. Yr ydym hefyd yn ceisio mynd ar drywydd materion gyda’r Gweinidogion a’r Pwyllgorau Pwnc. Yn sgîl cyfrifoldeb Prif Weinidog Cymru am gydgysylltu polisi yn y Gogledd, rhoddwyd gwahoddiad sefydlog iddo fynychu pob un o gyfarfodydd y Pwyllgor. Daeth Rhodri i dri chyfarfod, ym Mhorthmadog, Caergybi a’r Rhyl, a chynhaliodd sesiynau holi agored. Yr oeddent yn boblogaidd iawn gyda’r cyhoedd a diolchaf i Rhodri am eu cynnal.

Finally, I pay tribute to the Committee’s clerk, Adrian Crompton, and to Howell Rees and Menna Williams who assisted and guided me throughout the year—sometimes with a little frustration. I also thank the other team members: the translators, ushers, and technicians, without whom the Committee would not have been able to function in north Wales.

Yn olaf, talaf deyrnged i glerc y Pwyllgor, Adrian Crompton, ac i Howell Rees a Menna Williams sydd wedi’m cynorthwyo a’m tywys drwy’r flwyddyn—gyda chryn rwystredigaeth weithiau. Diolchaf hefyd i’r aelodau eraill o’r tîm: y cyfieithwyr, y tywyswyr, a’r technegwyr, na fyddai’r Pwyllgor wedi gallu gweithredu yn y Gogledd hebddynt.

John Marek The Deputy Presiding Officer spoken in English p. 85

John Marek Y Dirprwy Lywydd siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 85

I am grateful to you, Ann, for only taking two minutes.

Yr wyf yn ddiolchgar ichi, Ann, am gymryd dau funud yn unig.

Elin Jones siaradwyd yn Gymraeg t. 85

Elin Jones spoken in Welsh p. 85

Yr wyf yn falch o’r cyfle i gyflwyno adroddiad blynyddol Pwyllgor Rhanbarth y Canolbarth dros y cyfnod y bûm yn Gadeirydd. Bydd Aelodau’n ymwybodol o’r ffaith bod Pwyllgor Rhanbarth y Canolbarth yn ymdrin â’r ardal ddaearyddol fwyaf eang—40 y cant o dirwedd Cymru, ond 8 y cant o boblogaeth Cymru. Dim ond wyth aelod, mewn egwyddor, sydd gan y Pwyllgor, ond mewn gwirionedd saith aelod sydd ganddo, gan fod y Llywydd yn un o’r aelodau hynny. Er bod poblogaeth yr ardal yn fach, mae’n unigryw ac, yn ystod y flwyddyn ddiwethaf, cafodd ei tharo’n galed gan argyfwng clwy’r traed a’r genau gan mai amaethyddiaeth a thwristiaeth yw prif ddiwydiannau’r ardal honno.

I am pleased to have the opportunity to present the annual report of the Mid Wales Regional Committee for the period that I was Chair. Members will be aware that the Mid Wales Regional Committee deals with the largest geographical area—40 per cent of Wales’s land surface but only 8 per cent of the population. There are only eight Committee Members in principle, but only seven in practice as the Presiding Officer is one of those members. Although the area has a small population, it is unique and, during the last year, it has been hard hit by the foot and mouth disease crisis, as agriculture and tourism are that area’s main industries.

Yn ystod y flwyddyn, cynhaliodd y Pwyllgor bum cyfarfod, a chanslwyd un arall oherwydd argyfwng clwy’r traed a’r genau. Teithiodd y Pwyllgor ar draws yr ardal ddaearyddol eang o’r Bala i Ystradgynlais. Trafodwyd sawl pwnc a chlywyd tystiolaeth nifer o brif chwaraewyr y Canolbarth, gan gynnwys y WDA, Awdurdod Iechyd Dyfed Powys, Cyngor Ieuenctid Cymru, Urdd Gobaith Cymru, Cyngor Cefn Gwlad Cymru ac Asiantaeth yr Amgylchedd.

During the year, the Committee held five meetings, with another cancelled due to the foot and mouth disease crisis. The Committee travelled across the broad geographical area from Bala to Ystradgynlais. Many subjects were discussed and evidence was given by a number of key players in mid Wales, including the WDA, Dyfed Powys Health Authority, the Wales Youth Agency, Urdd Gobaith Cymru, the Countryside Council for Wales and the Environment Agency.

Trafodasom faterion o bryder lleol: er enghraifft, awyrennau’n hedfan yn isel, problemau yn ymwneud â phobl ifanc mewn ardaloedd gwledig, cadw ysgolion bach gwledig ar agor a ffermydd gwynt yng Ngheredigion, sydd bob amser yn bwnc dadleuol.

We discussed matters of local concern: for example, low flying aircraft, problems relating to young people in rural areas, keeping small rural schools open and wind farms in Ceredigion, which is always a controversial matter.

Datblygodd y Pwyllgor ei ddull o ymdrin â materion yn ystod y flwyddyn. Ar y cychwyn, bu inni ganolbwyntio ar graffu nifer o gyrff cyhoeddus. Erbyn y diwedd, yr oeddem yn chwarae rhan amlycach yn natblygiad polisi yn y meysydd y mae’r Pwyllgorau Pwnc yn eu hystyried.

The Committee developed its method of dealing with issues during the year. At the beginning, we concentrated on scrutinising a number of public bodies. By the end, we played a more prominent role in policy development in the areas that the Subject Committees are responsible for.

Wrth gloi, cymeraf y cyfle i ddiolch i’r rhai sydd yn gwasanaethu’r Pwyllgor, yn arbennig y clercod, ac i’m cyd-Aelodau ar y Pwyllgor.

In closing, I take the opportunity to thank those who serve the Committee, the clerks in particular, and my colleagues on the Committee.

Alun Cairns spoken in English p. 86

Alun Cairns siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 86

As the former Chairman of the South West Wales Regional Committee, it is a great pleasure to speak in this brief debate. I start by acknowledging the role and support of the clerk, Jane Westlake, and the deputy clerk, Claire Morris, in aiding me to run and organise the Committee meetings.

Fel cyn Gadeirydd Pwyllgor Rhanbarth y De-orllewin, mae’n bleser mawr gennyf siarad yn y ddadl gryno hon. Dechreuaf drwy gydnabod rôl a chymorth y clerc, Jane Westlake, a’r dirprwy glerc, Claire Morris, wrth fy helpu i gynnal a threfnu cyfarfodydd y Pwyllgor.

The theme that I set about to achieve, following my nomination as comrade Chair at a meeting in Newcastle Emlyn, was the involvement of young people. Therefore, I am grateful for the contributions of my former school, Ysgol Gyfun Ystalyfera, and of Ysgol Gyfun Ddwyieithog y Preseli and Fishguard High School in meetings held in Pembrokeshire. We discussed a wide range of issues from health improvement programmes, the Assembly review of procedure, Education and Learning Wales, the Culture Committee’s review of the Welsh language, and the waste management strategy.

Y thema y ceisiais ei chyflawni, ar ôl cael fy enwebu’n gymrawd Gadeirydd mewn cyfarfod yng Nghastellnewydd Emlyn, oedd cynnwys pobl ifanc. Felly, yr wyf yn ddiolchgar am gyfraniadau fy nghyn ysgol, Ysgol Gyfun Ystalyfera, ac Ysgol Gyfun Ddwyieithog y Preseli ac Ysgol Uwchradd Abergwaun mewn cyfarfodydd a gynhaliwyd yn Sir Benfro. Trafodwyd amrywiaeth eang o faterion o raglenni gwella iechyd, yr adolygiad o weithdrefnau gan y Cynulliad, Dysgu ac Addysgu Cymru, adolygiad y Pwyllgor Diwylliant o’r Gymraeg, a’r strategaeth rheoli gwastraff.

One thing that I hope will develop as a result of the Assembly review of procedure, which has been expressed in this debate—and that is what these reviews lead into—is the role of the Regional Committees. It is important that the role of the Regional Committees is formalised regarding their input into the administration’s policy-making.

Un o’r pethau y gobeithiaf y bydd yn cael ei ddatblygu o ganlyniad i’r adolygiad o weithdrefnau gan y Cynulliad, a fynegwyd yn y ddadl hon—a dyna’r hyn a ddaw yn sgîl yr adolygiadau hyn—yw rôl y Pwyllgorau Rhanbarth. Mae’n bwysig y caiff rôl y Pwyllgorau Rhanbarth ei ffurfioli ynglŷn â’u rhan ym mhroses gwneud penderfyniadau ar bolisïau’r weinyddiaeth.

Many people took the time to prepare presentations for the South West Wales Regional Committee meetings. We listened to them, questioned and probed the evidence and then presented succinct, effective papers to the administration and to the respective Minister. We are always told to judge the administration on outcomes. It would be nice to hear positive feedback or otherwise on the results of the Regional Committees’ input.

Cymerodd llawer o bobl yr amser i baratoi cyflwyniadau ar gyfer cyfarfodydd Pwyllgor Rhanbarth y De-orllewin. Bu inni wrando arnynt, eu holi ac edrych yn fanwl ar y dystiolaeth, gan gyflwyno papurau effeithiol, cryno wedyn i’r weinyddiaeth ac i’r Gweinidog perthnasol. Dywedir wrthym bob amser i farnu’r weinyddiaeth yn ôl canlyniadau. Byddai’n braf cael adborth cadarnhaol neu unrhyw fath arall o adborth ar ganlyniadau cyfraniad y Pwyllgorau Rhanbarth.

I pay tribute to Peter Black, who chaired the South West Wales Regional Committee during its first year, and wish Rhodri Glyn Thomas well as Chairman during the forthcoming year. It has been a pleasure to work with you all.

Talaf deyrnged i Peter Black, a gadeiriodd Bwyllgor Rhanbarth y De-orllewin yn ystod ei flwyddyn gyntaf, a dymunaf yn dda i Rhodri Glyn Thomas fel Cadeirydd yn ystod y flwyddyn i ddod. Bu’n bleser cydweithio â phob un ohonoch.

Peter Black spoken in English p. 87

Peter Black siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 87

Despite chairing the South West Wales Regional Committee during the first year of the Assembly, I learnt my harshest lesson as a member of the South East Wales Regional Committee, because, at the one and only meeting I missed last year, they made me Chair. The moral of this story is that all Members should seek to improve their own attendance at Regional Committee meetings. The Committee report has, of course, been tabled and Members can read it. However, I want to add some brief personal comments.

Er gwaethaf y ffaith imi gadeirio Pwyllgor Rhanbarth y De-orllewin yn ystod blwyddyn gyntaf y Cynulliad, dysgais y wers galetaf fel aelod o Bwyllgor Rhanbarth y De-ddwyrain, oherwydd cefais fy mhenodi’n Gadeirydd yn ystod yr unig gyfarfod pan nad oeddwn yn bresennol y llynedd. Moeswers y stori hon yw y dylai pob Aelod geisio gwella eu presenoldeb eu hunain yng nghyfarfodydd y Pwyllgorau Rhanbarth. Mae adroddiad y Pwyllgor wedi’i gyflwyno, wrth gwrs, a gall yr Aelodau ei ddarllen. Fodd bynnag, hoffwn ychwanegu rhai sylwadau personol cryno.

The South East Wales Regional Committee met six times last year. A conscious decision was made to get away from civic centres and to go out into the community. The only obstacle to this was the size of the Committee, which ruled out a number of venues that may have accommodated other Regional Committees. In the venues that we used, there were problems with the seating arrangements because AMs and those making presentations needed to see each other without having their backs to the audience.

Cyfarfu Pwyllgor Rhanbarth y De-ddwyrain chwe gwaith y llynedd. Gwnaethpwyd penderfyniad ymwybodol i beidio â defnyddio canolfannau dinesig ond i fynd i’r gymuned. Yr unig rwystr i hyn oedd maint y Pwyllgor, a’i gwnaeth yn amhosibl inni ddefnyddio nifer o’r lleoliadau y gallai Pwyllgorau Rhanbarth eraill fod wedi’u defnyddio. Yn y lleoliadau a ddefnyddiwyd gennym, cafwyd problemau o ran y trefniadau eistedd gan fod angen i’r Aelodau a’r rheini a oedd yn gwneud cyflwyniadau weld ei gilydd heb fod eu cefnau tuag at y gynulleidfa.

I remember the venue at Chepstow where we were strung along a long room. As Chair, I had problems seeing the presenters at the far end of the room, never mind being able to communicate and interact with the audience. That raises fundamental issues about the size of the South East Wales Regional Committee and how a body of that size can successfully interact with communities. On the plus side, it was my impression that audiences grew steadily throughout the year, which is confirmed by the official figures. I hope that that continues. The more people that we can get along to these Committees, the better we will do our job of being the Assembly’s eyes and ears, and of giving people an opportunity to put their views to us.

Cofiaf y lleoliad yng Nghas-gwent pan oeddem yn eistedd ar hyd ystafell hir. Fel Cadeirydd, cefais anawsterau i weld y cyflwynwyr ar ben arall yr ystafell, heb sôn am allu cyfathrebu a rhyngweithio â’r gynulleidfa. Mae hynny’n codi cwestiynau hanfodol am faint Pwyllgor Rhanbarth y De-ddwyrain a sut y gall corff o’r maint hwnnw ryngweithio â chymunedau yn llwyddiannus. I fod yn gadarnhaol, cefais yr argraff fod y gynulleidfa wedi tyfu’n gyson drwy’r flwyddyn, a gadarnheir gan y ffigurau swyddogol. Gobeithiaf y bydd hynny’n parhau. Po fwyaf o bobl y gallwn eu hannog i fynd i’r Pwyllgorau hyn, y gorau y byddwn yn cyflawni ein tasg o fod yn llygaid a chlustiau’r Cynulliad, ac o roi i bobl y cyfle i leisio eu barn.

We took active steps to involve audiences in the Committee’s discussions. Public question time, or the open mike session, was moved to the start of meetings while I was Chair, and I sought to elicit questions and comments from the audience as well as Members during evidence sessions. The increasing use of themed meetings tied into the Assembly’s agenda and consultations was successful in improving audience interaction and attendance. For example, in the session on the waste management strategy contributors were able to get responses from the Assembly Minister and officials as well as Members.

Cymerwyd camau i gynnwys y gynulleidfa yn nhrafodaethau’r Pwyllgor. Symudwyd y cyfnod cwestiynau cyhoeddus, neu’r sesiwn meicroffon, i ddechrau’r cyfarfodydd tra fy mod yn Gadeirydd, a cheisiais ysgogi cwestiynau a sylwadau gan y gynulleidfa ynghyd â’r Aelodau yn ystod sesiynau tystiolaeth. Llwyddodd y defnydd cynyddol o gyfarfodydd â thema yn gysylltiedig ag agenda a gwaith ymgynghori’r Cynulliad i wella’r broses o ryngweithio â’r gynulleidfa a phresenoldeb. Er enghraifft, yn ystod y sesiwn ar y strategaeth rheoli gwastraff, gallai’r cyfranogwyr gael atebion gan Weinidog y Cynulliad a swyddogion yn ogystal â’r Aelodau.

The Assembly Review of Procedure Committee is considering the role of Regional Committees. I support its initial conclusions that Regional Committees should be advocates for their regions. We still have some way to go on that, but that provision for Regional Committees to take reports to Plenary and/or Subject Committees will be one way of achieving that aim and give their meetings more teeth. It makes sense to debate those sorts of reports rather than to go through the motions in discussing annual reports in Plenary each year. Although the Regional Committees’ annual reports will still be important in assessing how well those Committees are doing, debating time would be better spent considering the need for a medical school in north Wales, for example, or other similar issues.

Mae Pwyllgor Adolygu Gweithdrefn y Cynulliad yn ystyried rôl y Pwyllgorau Rhanbarth. Cefnogaf ei gasgliadau cychwynnol y dylai’r Pwyllgorau Rhanbarth eirioli dros eu rhanbarthau. Erys cryn dipyn i’w wneud o ran hynny, ond bydd y ddarpariaeth honno sy’n galluogi’r Pwyllgorau Rhanbarth i gyflwyno adroddiadau mewn Cyfarfodydd Llawn neu/ac i’r Pwyllgorau Pwnc yn un ffordd o gyflawni’r nod hwnnw ac i sicrhau bod mwy o rym gan eu cyfarfodydd. Gwna synnwyr i gynnal dadl ar y mathau hynny o adroddiadau yn hytrach na gorfod trafod adroddiadau blynyddol mewn Cyfarfodydd Llawn bob blwyddyn. Er y bydd adroddiadau blynyddol y Pwyllgorau Rhanbarth yn dal i fod yn bwysig wrth asesu perfformiad y Pwyllgorau hynny, byddai’n well defnyddio amser dadlau yn ystyried yr angen am ysgol feddygol yn y Gogledd, er enghraifft, a materion tebyg eraill.

Finally, I convey my thanks to the South East Wales Regional Committee for its support this year, to the Committee Secretariat for all its hard work, and to all those who came to meetings and contributed to them.

Yn olaf, hoffwn ddiolch i Bwyllgor Rhanbarth y De-ddwyrain am ei gefnogaeth eleni, hoffwn ddiolch i Ysgrifenyddion y Pwyllgor am eu holl waith caled, a hoffwn ddiolch i bob un a ddaeth i’r cyfarfodydd ac a gyfrannodd atynt.

Alison Halford spoken in English p. 89

Alison Halford siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 89

The North Wales Regional Committee meetings show devolution at its best. We must congratulate Ann Jones, who has chaired fascinating and wide-ranging presentations. The North Wales Regional Committee can also claim credit for ensuring that the public was able to participate as much as possible. We chose a model used by North Wales Police in its consultative groups. The fact that the public was able to address Assembly Members, as well as Rhodri Morgan, who has made a huge commitment to come up to these Committee meetings, is wonderful. That people are able to talk to us and we to listen to them is far more useful than having Assembly Members banging on about their own wonderful work.

Dengys cyfarfodydd Pwyllgor Rhanbarth y Gogledd y broses ddatganoli ar ei gorau. Rhaid inni longyfarch Ann Jones, sydd wedi cadeirio cyflwyniadau diddorol ac eang eu cwmpas. Gall Pwyllgor Rhanbarth y Gogledd hawlio’r clod hefyd am sicrhau bod y cyhoedd yn gallu cymryd rhan gymaint â phosibl. Dewiswyd model a ddefnyddir gan Heddlu Gogledd Cymru yn ei grwpiau ymgynghorol. Mae’r ffaith bod y cyhoedd yn gallu siarad ag Aelodau’r Cynulliad, yn ogystal â Rhodri Morgan, sydd wedi gwneud ymrwymiad enfawr i ddod i gyfarfodydd y Pwyllgor hwn, yn ardderchog. Mae’r ffaith bod pobl yn gallu siarad â ni a’n bod ni yn gallu gwrando arnynt hwy yn llawer mwy defnyddiol na chlywed Aelodau’r Cynulliad yn mynd ymlaen ac ymlaen am eu gwaith gwych eu hunain.

Ann Jones has taken the Committee forward. We have had some wonderful attendance figures. Rhyl was probably the biggest meeting; it broke all records. Ann has deftly handled some fairly difficult and challenging members of the public who wanted to say more than they wanted to say. Finally, Ann has also ensured that people with hearing or visual disabilities have always been able to participate fully. The North Wales Regional Committee meetings are an enormous asset to this Government, and we all deserve a pat on the back.

Mae Ann Jones wedi sicrhau bod y Pwyllgor yn datblygu. Cawsom rai ffigurau presenoldeb ardderchog. Mae’n siŵr mai’r cyfarfod yn y Rhyl oedd yr un mwyaf; torrodd bob record. Mae Ann wedi trin rhai aelodau o’r cyhoedd a oedd braidd yn anodd ac yn heriol a oedd am ddweud mwy nag yr oeddent am ddweud mewn ffordd fedrus. Yn olaf, mae Ann wedi sicrhau hefyd bod pobl ag anableddau clywed neu weld wedi gallu cymryd rhan lawn bob amser. Mae cyfarfodydd Pwyllgor Rhanbarth y Gogledd yn ased enfawr i’r Llywodraeth hon, ac mae pob un ohonom yn haeddu cael ein llongyfarch.

Helen Mary Jones siaradwyd yn Gymraeg ac yn Saesneg t. 90

Helen Mary Jones spoken in Welsh and English p. 90

Fel un sydd yn enwog am fod yn gwbl bleidiol bob amser ac am ddilyn polisi plaid, mae’n bleser gennyf y prynhawn yma siarad o safbwynt personol.

in Welsh As one who is notorious for always being on-message and following the party line, it is a pleasure this afternoon to talk from a personal point of view.

Mae’r adroddiadau hyn yn dangos bod llawer o waith da yn cael ei wneud yn y Pwyllgorau Rhanbarth. Fel aelod o Bwyllgor Rhanbarth yr wyf yn gwerthfawrogi llawer o’r gwaith sy’n digwydd. Mae’n gadarnhaol bod y Pwyllgorau Rhanbarth yn dod â’r Cynulliad yn agosach at gymunedau ledled Cymru, a gwerthfawrogaf yn fawr y sesiynau meicroffon.

in Welsh These reports show that much good work is being done in the Regional Committees. As a member of a Regional Committee I appreciate much of the work that goes on. It is positive that the Regional Committees bring the Assembly closer to communities throughout Wales, and I very much appreciate the open mike sessions.

Fodd bynnag, yr wyf yn poeni bod bodolaeth y Pwyllgorau Rhanbarth yn torri ar draws un o brif ddyletswyddau’r Cynulliad, sef uno a chryfhau Cymru fel cenedl. Mae ein cymuned genedlaethol yn gymuned o gymunedau. Cyfoeth ein gwlad yw ei hamrywiaeth ond, yn hanesyddol, yr ydym wedi tueddu i ganolbwyntio’n ormodol ar yr hyn sy’n ein gwahanu, yn hytrach na’r hyn sy’n ein huno.

in Welsh However, I am concerned that the existence of the Regional Committees cuts across one of the Assembly’s main duties, namely to unify and strengthen Wales as a nation. Our national community is a community of communities. Our country’s wealth lies in its diversity but, historically, we have tended to concentrate too much on what divides us, rather than what unites us.

Os credwn yr hyn a ddywed rhai, yn enwedig yn y wasg, nid yw gogledd Cymru yn ymddiried yn y De, mae’r de-orllewin yn gwrthod cydweithio gydag Abertawe, nid yw pobl y Canolbarth yn ymddiried yn neb, ac mae’r byd a’r betws yn casáu Caerdydd, druan. Mewn difrif, pa mor aml y cawn glywed bod penderfyniadau’r Cynulliad yn cael eu trafod? Mae arnaf ofn mai’r meddylfryd yw, yn enwedig wrth ichi fynd ymhellach o Gaerdydd, ‘nid ydynt yn deall, mae Caerdydd yn bell i ffwrdd’. Mae Caerdydd yn bell o Gaernarfon, Caersws, Ceredigion a Thrimsaran lle’r wyf i’n byw. Ond nid yw hanner mor bell â Llundain.

in Welsh If we believe what some people say, particularly in the press, north Wales does not trust south Wales, south-west Wales refuses to co-operate with Swansea, people from mid-Wales do not trust anybody, and all and sundry hate poor Cardiff. Seriously, how often do we hear that Assembly decisions are discussed? I am afraid that the mindset, particularly the further from Cardiff you go, is, ‘they don’t understand, Cardiff is a long way away’. Cardiff is far from Caernarfon, Caersws, Ceredigion and Trimsaran, where I live. But it is not half as far as London.

A yw bodolaeth y Pwyllgorau Rhanbarth yn cynnal y fath agwedd, sy’n ein gwahanu? Os ydym am fynd â’r Cynulliad yn nes at bobl Cymru, oni fyddai’n fwy synhwyrol cynnal cyfarfodydd Pwyllgorau Pwnc yn y rhanbarthau yn fwy cyson?

in Welsh Does not the existence of Regional Committees serve to perpetuate such a divisive attitude? If we want to take the Assembly closer to the people of Wales, would it not be more sensible to hold Subject Committee meetings in the regions more regularly?

Canmolaf y gwaith da a wneir dan gadeiryddiaeth Richard Edwards ym Mhwyllgor yr Amgylchedd, Cynllunio a Thrafnidiaeth. Yr ydym yn cwrdd yn gyson yn rhanbarthau Cymru.

in Welsh I commend the good work being done under the chairmanship of Richard Edwards in the Environment, Planning and Transport Committee. We regularly meet in the regions of Wales.

Oni ddylem wneud mwy o ddefnydd o ymweliadau Gweinidogion i wrando ar bobl yn ogystal â gwneud cyhoeddiadau pwysig? Oni ddylem ystyried mynd â Chyfarfodydd Llawn y Cynulliad Cenedlaethol i’r rhanbarthau? Gallem ganiatáu’r un sesiynau meicroffon, a’r un math o fynediad. Yna, gallai pobl Cymru gael llais uniongyrchol ar lefel y Cynulliad, lle y gallwn wneud penderfyniadau.

in Welsh Should we not make more use of Ministers’ visits to listen to people as well as make important announcements? Should we not consider taking National Assembly Plenary sessions out to the regions? We could allow the same open mike sessions, and the same type of access. The people of Wales could then have a direct voice at Assembly level, where decisions can be taken.

Mae’n hollbwysig, pan godir pwyntiau, fod ffordd gyson a chynhwysfawr o fwydo’r pwyntiau hynny’n ôl at Bwyllgorau Pwnc, y Llywodraeth a’r Cynulliad drwy’r flwyddyn, yn ogystal â thrwy’r adroddiadau blynyddol.

in Welsh It is vital, when points are raised, that there is a consistent and comprehensive way of feeding those points back to Subject Committees, the Government and the Assembly throughout the year, as well as through the annual reports.

Ar ddyfodol Pwyllgorau Rhanbarth, credaf y dylem ystyried geiriau Giraldus Cambrensis yn y ddeuddegfed ganrif:

in Welsh On the future of Regional Committees, I believe that we should consider the words of Giraldus Cambrensis in the twelfth century:

‘If they could but unite, nothing could defeat them.’

Do the Regional Committees unite us or perpetuate division? I know what I think.

yn Saesneg A yw’r Pwyllgorau Rhanbarth yn ein huno neu a ydynt yn parhau i’n gwahanu? Gwn fy marn i.

Gwenda Thomas siaradwyd yn Gymraeg t. 91

Gwenda Thomas spoken in Welsh p. 91

Talaf deyrnged i Alun Cairns am ei gadeiryddiaeth o Bwyllgor Rhanbarth y De-orllewin dros y flwyddyn ddiwethaf. Yr wyf yn siŵr bod gennym oll atgofion cynnes am Val Feld, a sut y byddai’n ei bryfocio mewn ffordd ddymunol a derbyniol. Credaf ei bod yn iawn inni gofio hynny heddiw wrth drafod yr adroddiad blynyddol.

I pay tribute to Alun Cairns for his chairmanship of the South West Wales Regional Committee over the past year. I am sure that we all have fond memories of Val Feld, and how she would bait him in a pleasant and acceptable way. I believe that it is right for us to remember that today when debating the annual report.

A yw Alun yn cytuno ei bod yn annoeth cyfyngu cwestiynau’r cyhoedd yn ystod y sesiwn meicroffon i thema’r cyfarfod? Gallai hynny olygu nad yw’r cyfarfodydd mor agored ag y gallent fod i’r cyhoedd fynegi barn a chynnig cyngor ar faterion lleol a chenedlaethol. Gallai hyn, fel y dywed Helen Mary, bellhau’r Pwyllgor oddi wrth y bobl.

Does Alun agree that it is unwise to restrict the public’s questions during open mike sessions to the meeting’s theme? That could result in the meetings not being as open as they could for the public to express its views and offer advice on local and national matters. That could, as Helen Mary says, distance the Committee from the people.

DerbyniwydAdopted O blaidFor 27 YmatalAbstain 0 Yn erbynAgainst 0

Derbyniwyd y cynnig.

Motion carried.

Sut y pleidleisiodd yr AelodauHow Members voted
O blaidFor (27)
  • Lorraine Barrett
  • Peter Black
  • Alun Cairns
  • Geraint Davies
  • Janet Davies
  • Richard Edwards
  • Sue Essex
  • Michael German
  • William Graham
  • Alison Halford
  • Brian Hancock
  • Ann Jones
  • Elin Jones
  • Helen Mary Jones
  • Peter Law
  • Huw Lewis
  • Val Lloyd
  • Tom Middlehurst
  • Jonathan Morgan
  • Rhodri Morgan
  • Lynne Neagle
  • Peter Rogers
  • Janet Ryder
  • Karen Sinclair
  • Gwenda Thomas
  • Owen John Thomas
  • Phil Williams

Dadl Fer

Short Debate

Undebau Credyd

Credit Unions

Ann Jones spoken in English p. 92

Ann Jones siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 92

I have received requests from Huw Lewis, David Melding, Mick Bates and Owen John Thomas to make brief contributions to this debate.

Yr wyf wedi derbyn ceisiadau gan Huw Lewis, David Melding, Mick Bates ac Owen John Thomas i wneud cyfraniadau byr i’r ddadl hon.

I declare an interest as a member of the Clwyd Coast Credit Union. I am proud to be a member and to have been involved in establishing that credit union. It was formed in 1997 and now boasts 1,000 members. It employs two part-time administrative staff, who are supported by a strong team of 35 volunteers. The Clwyd Coast Credit Union has come a long way since its inception, some five years ago. It has achieved much for our community. It has acquired new skills for its volunteers and it is now on the brink of taking up new premises—ironically, a former building society—in a prominent location in Rhyl. Its path has not always been smooth. It has faced lows such as being asked for rates by the local authority, even as it struggled to establish itself. However, it has also had highs because it has benefited from Assembly funding via the Wales Co-operative Centre, and it has received Objective 1 funding.

Datganaf fuddiant fel aelod o Undeb Credyd Arfordir Clwyd. Yr wyf yn falch o fod yn aelod ac o gael cyfle i gymryd rhan yn y broses o sefydlu’r undeb credyd hwnnw. Fe’i sefydlwyd yn 1997 ac mae ganddo 1,000 o aelodau erbyn hyn. Mae’n cyflogi dau aelod o staff gweinyddol rhan amser, a gefnogir gan dîm cryf o 35 o wirfoddolwyr. Mae Undeb Credyd Arfordir Clwyd wedi datblygu’n helaeth ers ei greu, tua phum mlynedd yn ôl. Mae wedi cyflawni llawer i’n cymuned. Mae wedi galluogi ei wirfoddolwyr i feithrin sgiliau newydd ac mae ar fin symud i eiddo newydd—yn eironig, hen gymdeithas adeiladu—mewn lleoliad amlwg yn y Rhyl. Ni fu’r llwybr bob amser yn esmwyth. Mae wedi wynebu cyfnodau anodd megis yr adeg pan ofynnodd yr awdurdod lleol am drethi, hyd yn oed wrth iddo ymdrechu i sefydlu ei hun. Fodd bynnag, mae hefyd wedi cael cyfnodau da oherwydd ei fod wedi elwa ar arian gan y Cynulliad drwy Ganolfan Gydweithredol Cymru, ac mae wedi derbyn arian Amcan 1.

As I draw the advertisement for the Clwyd Coast Credit Union to an end, my credit union now finds itself in a stable position. At present, there are 47 credit unions in Wales serving a membership of 15,000 people. In Britain as a whole, there are more than 700 credit unions, with some 300,000 members and assets approaching £200 million. These figures sound impressive, but in fact they show that less than 1 per cent of the population are members of a credit union. That figure does not compare well with the 45 per cent membership in Ireland. Our strategic plan, ‘Betterwales.com’, states that by March 2003 we want:

Wrth imi gloi’r hysbyseb i Undeb Credyd Arfordir Clwyd, mae fy undeb credyd yn sefydlog erbyn hyn. Ar hyn o bryd, ceir 47 undeb credyd yng Nghymru sy’n gwasanaethu aelodaeth o 15,000 o bobl. Ym Mhrydain gyfan, ceir dros 700 o undebau credyd, gyda thua 300,000 o aelodau ac asedau o tua £200 miliwn. Mae’r ffigurau hyn yn swnio’n drawiadol, ond mewn gwirionedd maent yn dangos bod llai nag 1 y cant o’r boblogaeth yn aelodau o undeb credyd. Nid yw’r ffigur hwnnw’n cymharu’n dda â’r aelodaeth o 45 y cant a geir yn Iwerddon. Ceir datganiad yn ein cynllun strategol, ‘Gwellcymru.com, sy’n dweud ein bod am sicrhau, erbyn Mawrth 2003:

‘A more effective credit union movement to become a major contributor to economic growth and tackling disadvantage as part of the Objective 1 programme.’

‘Bydd mudiad undebau credyd mwy effeithiol yn cyfrannu’n helaeth at dwf economaidd a mynd i’r afael ag anfantais fel rhan o raglen Amcan 1.’

Edwina Hart set us an even more precise target last year. Announcing a £3.8 million package for the credit union movement, she declared that the Assembly aimed to see credit union membership treble by 2003. I welcomed that statement then, and I am happy to re-affirm my support today and acknowledge the efforts being undertaken by the Westminster Government to help credit unions develop and flourish across the United Kingdom. Increasing credit union membership from 12,000 to 40,000 in Wales in just three years is ambitious, but we are right to drive this forward because the rewards are substantial.

Pennodd Edwina Hart darged manylach fyth inni y llynedd. Gan gyhoeddi pecyn o £3.8 miliwn ar gyfer y mudiad undebau credyd, datganodd fod y Cynulliad yn anelu at weld aelodaeth undebau credyd yn treblu erbyn 2003. Croesewais y datganiad hwnnw bryd hynny, ac yr wyf yn fwy na pharod i ailddatgan fy nghefnogaeth heddiw a chydnabod ymdrechion Llywodraeth San Steffan i helpu undebau credyd i ddatblygu a ffynnu ar draws y Deyrnas Unedig. Mae cynyddu aelodaeth undebau credyd o 12,000 i 40,000 yng Nghymru mewn dim ond tair blynedd yn uchelgeisiol, ond mae’n briodol inni ddatblygu hyn am fod y manteision yn sylweddol.

I will consider three general themes in relation to credit unions: the way credit unions link into the Assembly’s wider agenda for tackling poverty; the support currently provided to the credit union movement in Wales; and the way forward for Welsh credit unions. Credit unions play a vital role in helping to address the problems of social exclusion faced by people in our communities. Many of these people do not stand a chance of getting a bank account or credit rating for a loan and are forced to seek the type of financial arrangements that make those of us who can comfortably seek loans through traditional methods cringe—that is, borrowing from loan sharks. We see those loan sharks in our poorest communities, and in others too. They have huge signs offering instant cash with flexible repayment rates. However, we all know the reality that, once in the clutches of some of these financial dealers, the spiral tends to be downwards, further into despair, often with disastrous consequences for the individual.

Byddaf yn ystyried tair prif thema mewn cysylltiad ag undebau credyd: y cyswllt rhwng undebau credyd ag agenda ehangach y Cynulliad ar gyfer mynd i’r afael â thlodi; y cymorth a ddarperir ar hyn o bryd i’r mudiad undebau credyd yng Nghymru; a’r ffordd ymlaen i undebau credyd Cymru. Mae undebau credyd yn chwarae rôl hollbwysig wrth geisio helpu i fynd i’r afael â phroblemau allgáu cymdeithasol a wynebir gan bobl yn ein cymunedau. Nid oes unrhyw obaith gan nifer o’r bobl hyn o gael cyfrif banc neu statws credyd ar gyfer benthyciad ac mae’n rhaid iddynt geisio sicrhau’r math o drefniadau ariannol sy’n gwneud i’r rhai ohonom a all gael benthyciadau’n rhwydd drwy’r dulliau traddodiadol wingo—hynny yw, benthyg gan fenthycwyr diegwyddor. Gwelwn y benthycwyr diegwyddor hyn yn ein cymunedau tlotaf, ac mewn rhai eraill hefyd. Mae ganddynt arwyddion anferth yn cynnig arian parod ar unwaith a chyfraddau ad-dalu hyblyg. Fodd bynnag, gwyddom oll mai’r sefyllfa wirioneddol yw unwaith y bydd pobl yng nghrafangau rhai o’r bobl ariannol hyn, fod eu sefyllfa’n dueddol o waethygu ymhellach i anobaith, gan greu canlyniadau trychinebus i’r unigolyn.

Credit unions offer such individuals an opportunity—the first time that many will have had that opportunity—to participate in a sensible loan agreement and decent financial arrangements. This is not to suggest that credit unions are, or should be seen as, some sort of financial social services. They are not, and they are certainly not charities. Credit unions are run on the basis of one member, one vote. They offer local, community-based financial services, owned and controlled by the members who directly benefit from them. The purpose of credit unions is to provide access to affordable credit. They promote a regular savings culture that embraces even the smallest deposit and they work to improve the financial knowledge of their members through their educational programmes. Credit unions are based around their members’ financial needs. Some members will need a saving facility while others will need to borrow. Thus, credit unions help to match those members’ saving needs to other members’ credit needs.

Mae undebau credyd yn cynnig cyfle i unigolion o’r fath—y cyfle cyntaf i nifer ohonynt—gyfranogi mewn cytundeb benthyg synhwyrol a threfniadau ariannol priodol. Nid yw hyn yn awgrymu bod undebau credyd yn rhyw fath o wasanaethau cymdeithasol ariannol, ac ni ddylid eu hystyried felly. Nid hynny mohonynt, ac nid ydynt ychwaith yn elusennau. Caiff undebau credyd eu rhedeg ar sail un aelod, un bleidlais. Cynigiant wasanaethau ariannol lleol yn y gymuned, ac maent yn eiddo i’r aelodau sy’n cael budd uniongyrchol ohonynt ac yn eu rheoli. Pwrpas undebau credyd yw darparu mynediad i gredyd fforddiadwy. Maent yn hyrwyddo diwylliant cynilo rheolaidd sy’n croesawu hyd yn oed y blaendal lleiaf er mwyn gwella gwybodaeth ariannol eu haelodau drwy eu rhaglenni addysgol. Mae undebau credyd yn canolbwyntio ar anghenion ariannol eu haelodau. Bydd angen cyfleuster cynilo ar rai aelodau tra bydd eraill am fenthyca. Felly, mae undebau credyd yn helpu i gydweddu anghenion cynilo’r aelodau hynny ag anghenion credyd aelodau eraill.

When trying to envisage the benefits that credit unions can bring, it may help to look at the difference inside a particular community. For example, 500 people, each with a £1,000 loan from a home credit company, would spend £775,000 on credit over a 31-week period. The same loan over a 26-week period with a credit union would cost those 500 people just £515,725. A local authority making a capital investment of £250,000 to establish a credit union would, within six months, have helped to keep more than £259,000 in that community, making a real improvement to the financial position of the local people, local businesses and the local economy, not just in the short-term, but for the long-term and for years to come.

Wrth geisio dychmygu’r manteision a ddaw yn sgîl undebau credyd, efallai y byddai’n fanteisiol edrych ar wahaniaeth o fewn cymuned benodol. Er enghraifft, byddai 500 o bobl, gyda benthyciad o £1,000 yr un gan gwmni credyd cartref, yn gwario £775,000 ar gredyd dros gyfnod o 31 wythnos. Byddai’r un benthyciad dros gyfnod o 26 wythnos gydag undeb credyd yn costio dim ond £515,725 i’r 500 o bobl hynny. Byddai awdurdod lleol sy’n gwneud buddsoddiad cyfalaf o £250,000 i sefydlu undeb credyd, o fewn chwe mis wedi helpu i gadw dros £259,000 yn y gymuned honno, gan wneud gwelliant gwirioneddol i sefyllfa ariannol y bobl leol, busnesau lleol a’r economi leol, nid yn y tymor byr yn unig, ond hefyd yn yr hirdymor ac mewn blynyddoedd i ddod.

Credit unions offer excellent services and real savings to their members across Wales. The tragedy is that too few people in Wales have access to a credit union and that too many credit unions fail to expand their membership. The mutual basis of credit unions is important, but potential members need to see proper premises, proper security and properly trained staff if a credit union is to succeed. The Westminster Government is working on this, with the regulation of credit unions being brought under the Financial Services Authority. The Government is also committed to establishing a central services organisation for credit unions.

Mae undebau credyd yn cynnig gwasanaethau rhagorol ac arbedion gwirioneddol i’w haelodau ledled Cymru. Y drychineb yw na all digon o bobl yng Nghymru gael y cyfle i fanteisio ar undeb credyd a bod gormod o undebau credyd yn methu ag ehangu eu haelodaeth. Mae sail cydfuddiannol undebau credyd yn bwysig, ond mae angen i ddarpar aelodau weld eiddo priodol, diogelwch priodol a staff wedi eu hyfforddi’n briodol os yw undeb credyd am lwyddo. Mae Llywodraeth San Steffan yn gweithio ar hyn, gyda’r Awdurdod Gwasanaethau Ariannol yn gyfrifol am reoleiddio undebau credyd. Mae’r Llywodraeth hefyd yn ymrwymedig i sefydlu sefydliad gwasanaethau canolog ar gyfer undebau credyd.

Assistance available to credit unions in Wales at present comes from a variety of sources. I have already mentioned the £3.8 million from the Assembly, and there are other Assembly programmes that can tie into credit union developments. For example, Wrexham is using some of its People in Communities funding to try to persuade local people to think about joining a credit union. Other sources of finance are the lottery and even the high street banks, many of which offer services such as free banking. One of the most important sources of support, sometimes in cash but more often in kind, is the local authority. Despite highlighting the problems that my credit union faced in its early days, it is only fair to make clear that many local authorities aid credit unions. They assist them with the provision of premises, equipment and training and sometimes by offering relief from business rates under a hardship grant.

Ar hyn o bryd, daw’r cymorth sydd ar gael i undebau credyd yng Nghymru o sawl ffynhonnell. Yr wyf eisoes wedi crybwyll y £3.8 miliwn gan y Cynulliad, ac mae gan y Gynulliad raglenni eraill a all gysylltu â datblygiadau’r undebau credyd. Er enghraifft, mae Wrecsam yn defnyddio rhywfaint o’i arian Pobl mewn Cymunedau i geisio darbwyllo pobl leol i ystyried ymuno ag undeb credyd. Ffynonellau ariannu eraill yw’r loteri a hyd yn oed fanciau’r stryd fawr, gyda nifer ohonynt yn cynnig gwasanaethau fel bancio am ddim. Un o’r ffynonellau cymorth pwysicaf, weithiau mewn arian parod ond yn amlach mewn da, yw’r awdurdod lleol. Er gwaethaf amlygu’r problemau a wynebodd fy undeb credyd yn ei ddyddiau cynnar, mae ond yn deg esbonio’n glir fod nifer o awdurdodau lleol yn cynorthwyo undebau credyd. Maent yn eu cynorthwyo drwy ddarparu eiddo, offer a hyfforddiant ac weithiau drwy gynnig rhyddhad rhag trethi busnes o dan grant caledi.

I understand that in Scotland it is intended to issue guidance to all local authorities that 100 per cent rate relief should be granted to credit unions. I would welcome the First Minister’s views on introducing similar guidance in Wales. Some local authorities in Wales employ development officers to provide training and other help for local credit unions. Other local authorities are considering drawing up bids under Objective 1 and Objective 2 funding. Sadly, however, not all local authorities in Wales are yet as enlightened regarding the support that they lend to credit unions. That is why I was glad last week to see the publication of a pamphlet by the Local Government Association entitled ‘Changing Credit Unions’. This contains best-practice case studies on credit unions and also advises local authorities to support credit unions as well-capitalised financial businesses capable of earning credibility and confidence in communities. We must emphasise this message in Wales.

Yn yr Alban, deallaf mai’r bwriad yw rhoi arweiniad i bob awdurdod lleol y dylid rhoi rhyddhad treth o 100 y cant i undebau credyd. Byddwn yn croesawu cael barn y Prif Weinidog ar gyflwyno arweiniad tebyg yng Nghymru. Mae rhai awdurdodau lleol yng Nghymru yn cyflogi swyddogion datblygu i ddarparu hyfforddiant a mathau eraill o help i undebau credyd lleol. Mae awdurdodau lleol eraill yn ystyried llunio ceisiadau o dan nawdd Amcan 1 ac Amcan 2. Fodd bynnag, yn anffodus, nid yw pob awdurdod lleol yng Nghymru wedi derbyn gwybodaeth am y cymorth y gallant ei roi i undebau credyd. Dyna pam yr oeddwn yn falch o weld pamffled gan y Gymdeithas Llywodraeth Leol yn cael ei gyhoeddi yr wythnos diwethaf o’r enw ‘Changing Credit Unions’. Mae hwn yn cynnwys astudiaethau achos arfer gorau ar undebau credyd ac hefyd yn rhoi cyngor i awdurdodau lleol ar sut i gefnogi undebau credyd fel busnesau ariannol â chyfalaf sylweddol sy’n gallu ennyn hygrededd a hyder mewn cymunedau. Rhaid inni bwysleisio’r neges hon yng Nghymru.

The Scottish Parliament has demonstrated political and actual support for credit unions. All members and staff of the Scottish Parliament can now join a capital credit union. I understand that some time ago the Minister for Finance, Local Government and Communities asked her officials to explore the possibility of enabling the Assembly to join a credit union or establish our own. Pressing ahead with an Assembly credit union will send a clear signal to all those volunteers who help to sustain the credit union movement of the importance that we attach to their role in Wales. It will give a lead to other public and private companies to show that workplace credit unions can be self-financing, successful and popular with employees.

Mae Senedd yr Alban wedi dangos cefnogaeth wleidyddol a gwirioneddol i undebau credyd. Erbyn hyn, gall pob aelod ac aelodau o staff Senedd yr Alban ymuno ag undeb credyd cyfalaf. Deallaf fod y Gweinidog dros Gyllid, Llywodraeth Leol a Chymunedau wedi gofyn beth amser yn ôl i’w swyddogion ymchwilio i’r posibilrwydd o alluogi’r Cynulliad i ymuno ag undeb credyd neu i sefydlu un ei hun. Bydd bwrw ymlaen ag undeb credyd y Cynulliad yn anfon neges glir i’r holl wirfoddolwyr hynny sy’n helpu i gynnal y mudiad undebau credyd ynghylch pwysigrwydd eu rôl yng Nghymru. Rhydd esiampl i gwmnïau cyhoeddus a phreifat eraill i ddangos y gall undebau credyd yn y gweithle fod yn hunan-ariannol, llwyddiannus a phoblogaidd gyda chyflogeion.

We are making a real difference to the credit union movement in Wales. Over the next five years the benefits of our present investment are that 500 more volunteers will be recruited, 1,200 people will receive accredited training, 1,800 will receive support through financial exclusion projects, 50 businesses will be supported, and over 70 jobs will be created. We need to build on that progress. The Wales Co-operative Centre has been, and will remain, a key partner in our drive to develop credit unions across Wales.

Yr ydym yn gwneud gwahaniaeth gwirioneddol i’r mudiad undebau credyd yng Nghymru. Dros y pum mlynedd nesaf gwelwn mai manteision ein buddsoddiad presennol yw y caiff 500 yn fwy o wirfoddolwyr eu recriwtio, bydd 1,200 o bobl yn derbyn hyfforddiant achrededig, bydd 1,800 yn derbyn cymorth drwy brosiectau allgáu ariannol, rhoddir cymorth i 50 o fusnesau a chaiff dros 70 o swyddi eu creu. Mae angen inni adeiladu ar y cynnydd hwnnw. Mae Canolfan Gydweithredol Cymru wedi bod, a bydd yn parhau i fod, yn bartner allweddol yn ein hymgyrch i ddatblygu undebau credyd ledled Cymru.

I ask the First Minister to consider the potential advantages of following Scotland by taking direct responsibility ourselves. Through the Scottish credit union partnership, the Scottish Executive is taking lead responsibility for supporting new credit unions and helping established unions to expand and improve. Following this route would be welcomed by our credit unions. I realise, Rhodri, that this is a major step, and that it would need careful consideration and consultation.

Gofynnaf i’r Prif Weinidog ystyried manteision posibl dilyn ôl troed yr Alban drwy gymryd cyfrifoldeb uniongyrchol ein hunain. Drwy bartneriaeth undeb credyd yr Alban, Gweithrediaeth yr Alban sydd â’r prif gyfrifoldeb dros gefnogi undebau credyd newydd a helpu undebau sefydledig i ehangu a gwella. Byddai ein hundebau credyd yn croesawu dilyn y llwybr hwn. Sylweddolaf, Rhodri, fod hyn yn gam mawr, ac y byddai angen ystyried ac ymgynghori ar y mater hwn yn ofalus.

I mentioned briefly the central services organisation, which would offer all credit unions better rates of return on deposits and would also provide training and development, helping the unions to become more professional in their outlook. There has been wide consultation on the central services organisation, and it would make sense if it could be established at around the same time that the Financial Services Authority takes over the regulation of credit unions.

Soniais yn fyr am y sefydliad gwasanaethau canolog, a fyddai’n cynnig cyfraddau ad-dalu gwell i’r holl undebau credyd ar flaendaliadau ac a fyddai hefyd yn darparu hyfforddiant a datblygiad, gan helpu’r undebau i fabwysiadu agwedd fwy proffesiynol. Ymgynghorwyd yn helaeth ar y sefydliad gwasanaethau canolog, a byddai’n gwneud synnwyr pe gellid ei sefydlu tua’r un pryd ag y bydd yr Awdurdod Gwasanaethau Ariannol yn cymryd yr awennau i reoleiddio’r undebau credyd.

In conclusion, Deputy Prime Minister—I mean Deputy Presiding Officer; I was hoping that you would give me an extra minute for that Freudian slip—I hope that Members will agree that credit unions have an increasingly important role to play in our drive to reduce financial and social exclusion in Wales. I thank all the dedicated volunteers across Wales, who staff credit unions, not least the 35 in my union that help to look after my finances and offer me a friendly cup of tea. The volunteers carry out immensely valuable work, not only for their members but also for local businesses and the local economy. They truly are champions of their communities. I look forward to seeing the credit union movement in Wales develop and flourish, bringing with it its unique, mutual approach to many people, who today lack an equitable access to financial services.

I gloi, Ddirprwy Brif Weinidog—Ddirprwy Lywydd mae’n ddrwg gennyf; yr oeddwn yn gobeithio y byddech yn rhoi munud ychwanegol imi am y llithriad Freudaidd hwnnw—gobeithiaf y bydd yr Aelodau’n cytuno bod gan undebau credyd rôl gynyddol bwysig i’w chwarae yn ein hymgyrch i leihau allgáu ariannol a chymdeithasol yng Nghymru. Hoffwn ddiolch i’r holl wirfoddolwyr ymroddedig ledled Cymru, sy’n staffio’r undebau credyd, yn arbennig y 35 yn fy undeb i sy’n helpu i ofalu am fy arian ac sy’n cynnig paned gyfeillgar imi. Mae’r gwaith a wna’r gwirfoddolwyr yn werthfawr iawn, nid yn unig i’w haelodau ond hefyd i fusnesau lleol a’r economi leol. Maent yn bencampwyr gwirioneddol yn eu cymunedau. Edrychaf ymlaen i weld y mudiad undebau credyd yng Nghymru yn datblygu a ffynnu, gan gyflwyno ei ymagwedd gydfuddiannol unigryw i lawer o bobl, nad oes ganddynt fynediad cyfartal i wasanaethau ariannol ar hyn o bryd.

Huw Lewis spoken in English p. 98

Huw Lewis siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 98

I thank Ann for choosing the subject of credit unions for her short debate. I congratulate her on an informative and important contribution to their progress in becoming stable, established fixtures of Welsh civic society.

Hoffwn ddiolch i Ann am ddewis pwnc undebau credyd ar gyfer ei dadl fer. Hoffwn ei llongyfarch ar ei chyfraniad addysgiadol a phwysig i’w datblygiad tuag at ddod yn rhan sefydlog a sefydledig o gymdeithas ddinesig Cymru.

The benefits to deprived communities of thriving credit unions have been ably described by Ann. I know that she will agree, however, that the credit union movement is not simply a poor man’s bank. The Republic of Ireland leads the way with a strong, established credit union movement embedded in almost every community and serving everyone, not just those on lower incomes, although, of course, it mainly serves them. In Ireland, the credit union movement is as much involved in supporting and investing in local businesses as in individual savings and borrowings.

Rhoddodd Ann ddisgrifiad effeithiol o fanteision undebau credyd ffyniannus i gymunedau difreintiedig. Gwn y bydd yn cytuno, fodd bynnag, nad banc i bobl dlawd yn unig yw’r mudiad undebau credyd. Mae Gweriniaeth Iwerddon ar flaen y gad, gyda mudiad undebau credyd cryf a sefydledig ym mhob cymuned bron sy’n gwasanaethu pawb nid dim ond y rhai ar incwm is, er, wrth gwrs, mai hwy y mae’n ei wasanaethu’n bennaf. Yn Iwerddon, mae’r mudiad undebau credyd yn cyfrannu cymaint at y gwaith o gefnogi a buddsoddi mewn busnesau lleol ag a wna mewn cynilion a benthyciadau unigol.

Ann is right to point out that in Scotland too—

Yr oedd Ann yn gywir i bwysleisio y gwelwyd yn yr Alban—

John Marek The Deputy Presiding Officer spoken in English p. 98

John Marek Y Dirprwy Lywydd siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 98

Order. Huw, you may continue, but you have run over time, which means that other Members will not be allowed to speak.

Trefn. Huw, gallwch barhau, ond yr ydych wedi mynd y tu hwnt i’ch amser, sy’n golygu na fydd amser i Aelodau eraill siarad.

Huw Lewis spoken in English p. 98

Huw Lewis siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 98

I thought I had two minutes.

Yr oeddwn yn meddwl bod gennyf ddwy funud.

John Marek The Deputy Presiding Officer spoken in English p. 98

John Marek Y Dirprwy Lywydd siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 98

No, you have one minute. You may finish your sentence.

Na, mae gennych un funud. Gallwch orffen eich brawddeg.

Huw Lewis spoken in English p. 98

Huw Lewis siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 98

Ann is also right to point out that in Scotland too progress has been faster, because it has been driven from the top. We have lessons to learn from those experiences.

Yr oedd Ann yn gywir i bwysleisio y gwelwyd cynnydd llawer cynt yn yr Alban, am mai o’r brig y cafodd ei lywio. Mae gennym wersi i’w dysgu o’r profiadau hynny.

David Melding spoken in English p. 98

David Melding siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 98

I also commend Ann Jones on an excellent subject, debate and speech. I only wish my colleague, Alun Cairns, was here to learn what an excellent use of the market system this particular co-operative enterprise is. I am a member of the Co-operative Bank and one of my bank accounts is with it. However, I will not say anything about its services. Credit unions can provide excellent competitive services to a range of people who sometimes cannot access high street banking services. They can access loans, in particular, but also get rates of return on their savings at a higher level than is often available on the high street. It is a lesson to us all and I hope that we can find ways to encourage the growth of this sector.

Hoffwn innau gymeradwyo Ann Jones hefyd ar bwnc, dadl ac araith wych. Trueni nad yw fy nghyd-Aelod, Alun Cairns, yma i ddysgu defnydd pa mor wych o system y farchnad yw’r fenter gydfuddiannol hon. Yr wyf yn aelod o’r Banc Cydweithredol ac mae gennyf un o’m cyfrifon banc gyda’r banc hwnnw. Fodd bynnag, ni ddywedaf ddim am ei wasanaethau. Gall undebau credyd ddarparu gwasanaethau cystadleuol gwych i amrywiaeth o bobl na allant weithiau gael mynediad i wasanaethau bancio’r stryd fawr. Gallant gael mynediad i fenthyciadau, yn arbennig, ond gallant hefyd gael cyfraddau elw ar eu cynilion ar lefel uwch na’r hyn sydd ar gael yn aml ar y stryd fawr. Mae’n wers inni i gyd a gobeithiaf y gallwn ganfod ffyrdd o annog twf yn y sector hwn.

Mick Bates spoken in English p. 99

Mick Bates siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 99

Congratulations, Ann, for bringing this debate forward. As someone from Montgomeryshire, which is home to, perhaps, one of the great founders of the co-operative principle, Robert Owen, I believe that this principle is at the heart of regenerating and empowering our communities. These financial co-operatives are an excellent means of tackling financial and social exclusion. This is particularly true in rural areas, where the closure of banks, the demutualisation of building societies and their rationalisation leads to fewer opportunities for people to manage their finances.

Llongyfarchiadau, Ann, am gyflwyno’r ddadl hon. Fel rhywun sy’n dod o Sir Drefaldwyn, sy’n gartref i un o sylfaenwyr enwog yr egwyddor gydweithredol, mae’n debyg, Robert Owen, credaf fod yr egwyddor hon wrth wraidd y broses o adfywio ein cymunedau a rhoi’r gallu iddynt weithredu. Mae’r sefydliadau ariannol cydweithredol hyn yn ffordd wych o fynd i’r afael ag allgáu ariannol a chymdeithasol. Mae hyn yn arbennig o wir mewn ardaloedd gwledig, lle mae achosion o fanciau’n cau, cymdeithasau adeiladu’n rhoi’r gorau i fod yn gymdeithasau cydfuddiannol a lleihad yn eu niferoedd wedi arwain at lai o gyfleoedd i bobl reoli eu materion ariannol.

A great strength of the credit union is that money stays in the local community. In Montgomeryshire, we have a thriving credit union thanks to the efforts of a lady called Rina Clark, who has led the way. Newtown is twinned with Michaelstown in the Republic of Ireland. Through its influence, and by setting low interest rates to get rid of the loan sharks, I hope that we can progress from only providing financial assistance to individuals, to providing financial assistance to businesses. There are many micro-businesses in rural areas which would benefit greatly from the support of their credit union.

Un o gryfderau mawr yr undeb credyd yw bod arian yn aros yn y gymuned leol. Yn Sir Drefaldwyn, mae gennym undeb credyd ffyniannus o ganlyniad i ymdrechion gwraig o’r enw Rina Clark, sydd wedi arwain y ffordd yn hyn o beth. Gefeillwyd y Drenewydd â Michaelstown yng Ngweriniaeth Iwerddon. Drwy ddylanwad y dref hon, a thrwy bennu cyfraddau llog isel er mwyn cael gwared ar y benthycwyr diegwyddor, gobeithiaf y gallwn symud ymlaen o ddarparu cymorth ariannol i unigolion yn unig i ddarparu cymorth ariannol i fusnesau hefyd. Mae llawer o feicro-fusnesau mewn ardaloedd gwledig a fyddai’n elwa’n fawr ar gymorth eu hundeb credyd.

Long live the principle. I urge the First Minister to create a community investment authority, which would further empower our communities and control their finances.

Hir oes i’r egwyddor honno. Anogaf y Prif Weinidog i greu awdurdod buddsoddi cymunedol, a fyddai’n rhoi mwy o awdurdod i’n cymunedau reoli eu materion ariannol.

Owen John Thomas siaradwyd yn Gymraeg t. 100

Owen John Thomas spoken in Welsh p. 100

Llongyfarchaf Ann am gyflwyno’r ddadl hon. Datganaf fy aelodaeth o undeb credyd Plaid Cymru a diolchaf i’r gwirfoddolwyr, sef Alun Jobbins, John Daniels a Dai Payne, am ei reoli.

I congratulate Ann for bringing this debate forward. I declare my membership of Plaid Cymru’s credit union and I thank the volunteers, namely Alun Jobbins, John Daniels and Dai Payne, for managing it.

Yr oeddwn yn falch o glywed bod Huw Lewis am weld mwy o bwerau i Gymru er mwyn inni fod yn debycach i Iwerddon a’r Alban ac er mwyn cryfhau undebau credyd.

I was pleased to hear that Huw Lewis wants more powers for Wales so that we can be more like Ireland and Scotland and to strengthen credit unions

Cyfeiriodd Ann at drethi busnes. Mae nifer o undebau credyd yn llogi swyddfeydd ac yn derbyn ad-daliad o 50 y cant ar drethi busnes, tra bod eraill yn cael dim byd yn ôl. Mewn ambell ardal caiff undebau credyd ad-daliad llawn. Mae siopau elusennau ym mhob ardal yn derbyn ad-daliad llawn. O gofio bod undebau credyd yn gwasanaethu ein cymunedau mwyaf difreintiedig, a yw Ann yn cytuno y dylai pob awdurdod lleol roi ad-daliad llawn iddynt? A ydyw’n fodlon cefnogi ymgyrch i sicrhau y bydd hynny’n digwydd?

Ann referred to business rates. Many credit unions rent offices and receive a 50 per cent rebate on business rates, while others do not receive any rebate. In some areas credit unions receive a full rebate. Charity shops in all areas receive a full rebate. Given that credit unions serve our most disadvantaged communities, does Ann agree that all local authorities should give them a full rebate? Is she prepared to support a campaign to ensure that that happens?

Rhodri Morgan Prif Weinidog Cymru siaradwyd yn Gymraeg ac yn Saesneg t. 100

Rhodri Morgan The First Minister spoken in Welsh and English p. 100

Yr wyf am longyfarch Ann am ddewis pwnc pwysig a delfrydol ar gyfer y ddadl fer.

in Welsh I congratulate Ann on choosing an important and ideal subject for the short debate.

This matter concerns us all and there is huge potential for expansion in Wales, given that we are so far behind. Ireland has invested hugely in credit unions and about 45 per cent of its population are members. Wales is far behind in this respect. Strangely enough, in the USA, a country which is big in commercial banking, about 33 per cent of people participate in credit unions. Scotland also has a comparatively high participation rate—possibly because of the number of people with an Irish catholic background in central Scotland. However, until recently, Wales and England have not seen the great advantages of credit unions.

yn Saesneg Mae’r mater hwn o bwys inni i gyd, ac mae cyfle aruthrol i’w ehangu yng Nghymru, o ystyried ein bod cymaint ar ei hôl hi yn hyn o beth. Mae Iwerddon wedi buddsoddi llawer mewn undebau credyd ac mae tua 45 y cant o’i phoblogaeth yn aelodau. Mae Cymru ymhell ar ei hôl hi yn hyn o beth. Yr hyn sy’n rhyfedd yw, yn UDA, gwlad lle mae i fancio masnachol le amlwg, mae tua 33 y cant o’r bobl yn aelodau o undebau credyd. Mae gan yr Alban gyfradd gyfranogi gymharol uchel hefyd—o bosibl oherwydd nifer y bobl sydd â chefndir catholig o dras Gwyddelig yng nghanolbarth yr Alban. Fodd bynnag, hyd yn ddiweddar, nid yw Cymru a Lloegr wedi gweld manteision amlwg undebau credyd.

This subject commands support across party divides in the Assembly. There is no party divide on the importance of credit unions and of giving a boost to the principle. We recognise that Wales is starting from a long way behind, as only about 1 per cent of the population uses credit unions, compared with Ireland’s 45 per cent. We want to see that figure grow rapidly in Wales. We have set national targets, which we will support with grants, to increase the number of participants from 12,000 to 36,000; to double the number of volunteers to 1,000; and to provide training for 1,200 members—all within three years. These are reasonable targets, even though they may appear high. However, given that we are starting from such a low base, they are by no means unachievable. This work is supported and steered by the Wales Co-operative Centre, of which I was a founder director some 20 years ago. I am pleased that the centre has diversified into this field, as well as many others. It is an ideal mechanism for supporting the expansion of the credit union movement that we are all agreed upon.

yn Saesneg Mae’r pwnc hwn yn haeddu cefnogaeth trawsbleidiol yn y Cynulliad. Nid oes rhaniad rhwng y pleidiau o ran pwysigrwydd undebau credyd a rhoi hwb i’r egwyddor honno. Cydnabyddwn fod Cymru’n dechrau ymhell ar ei hôl hi, gan mai dim ond tua 1 y cant o’r boblogaeth sy’n defnyddio undebau credyd, o’i gymharu â 45 y cant yn Iwerddon. Yr ydym am weld y ffigur hwnnw’n cynyddu’n gyflym yng Nghymru. Pennwyd targedau cenedlaethol gennym, y byddwn yn eu cefnogi gyda grantiau, i gynyddu nifer y cyfranogwyr o 12,000 i 36,000; dyblu nifer y gwirfoddolwyr i 1,000; a darparu hyfforddiant i 1,200 o aelodau—oll o fewn tair blynedd. Mae’r rhain yn dargedau rhesymol, er eu bod efallai yn ymddangos yn uchel. Fodd bynnag, o ystyried ein bod cymaint ar ei hôl hi, mae’n bosibl i ni eu cyflawni. Cefnogir a llywir y gwaith hwn gan Ganolfan Gydweithredol Cymru, yr oeddwn yn un o’i chyfarwyddwyr adeg ei sefydlu tua 20 mlynedd yn ôl. Yr wyf yn falch o weld bod y ganolfan wedi arallgyfeirio i’r maes hwn, yn ogystal â nifer o feysydd eraill. Mae’n ffordd ddelfrydol o gefnogi’r broses o ehangu’r mudiad undebau credyd yr ydym oll yn gytûn arno.

Scotland is perhaps the most obvious comparator, with 120,000 credit union members. A short time into the effort to increase the number of members from 12,000 to 36,000, membership in Wales has almost reached 18,000. Ideally, in comparison with Scotland, we should have 80,000, not 18,000, members. So although the figure is increasing, we have a long way to go. However, we are investing more money than Scotland—£3.5 million, compared with the Scottish Parliament’s £1.5 million. That is perhaps a token of the advantages of Objective 1 status. It also shows that we are willing to support the credit union movement in a way that is disproportionate to Scotland in terms of the amount of money invested. However, perhaps Scotland has less to worry about because it already has power within the movement; credit unions are well built into its traditions. We are trying to create a tradition almost from scratch.

yn Saesneg Efallai mai’r Alban yw’r cymharydd amlycaf, gyda 120,000 o bobl yno’n aelodau o undebau credyd. Dyddiau cynnar yw hi yn yr ymdrech i gynyddu nifer yr aelodau o 12,000 i 36,000, ond eisoes mae’r aelodaeth yng Nghymru bron â chyrraedd 18,000. Yn ddelfrydol, o gymharu â’r Alban, dylai fod gennym 80,000 o aelodau, nid 18,000. Felly, er bod y ffigur yn cynyddu, mae gennym lawer o waith o’n blaenau. Fodd bynnag, yr ydym yn buddsoddi mwy o arian na’r hyn a fuddsoddir gan yr Alban—£3.5 miliwn o’i gymharu â £1.5 miliwn gan Senedd yr Alban. Efallai fod hynny yn un o fanteision statws Amcan 1. Dengys hefyd ein bod yn barod i gefnogi’r mudiad undebau credyd mewn ffordd anghymesur â’r Alban o ran swm yr arian a fuddsoddir. Fodd bynnag, efallai bod gan yr Alban lai i boeni yn ei gylch oherwydd bod ganddi bŵer eisoes o fewn y mudiad; mae undebau credyd wedi hen sefydlu yn ei thraddodiadau. Yr ydym ni yn ceisio creu traddodiad o ddim bron.

I will explore some of the problems that arise in relation to the credit union movement, so that Members can see where the administration stands on this. Do you want more credit unions or larger credit unions? That is a difficult issue. The administration’s inclination, having taken advice from the Wales Co-operative Centre, is not to expand the number of credit unions. It is better to amalgamate some of the credit unions and make them big and strong. When I think of credit unions, I frequently reflect on the remarkable works of John Hume, the recently retired leader of the Social and Democratic Labour Party. You may have seen him interviewed in depth on television recently. When he was asked about his greatest achievement during his long career in politics, he said that it was setting up the Derry Credit Union. When asked as to whether that was more important than the peace process, he said that it was. Derry is a poor town of 60,000 people—the Northern Ireland equivalent of Merthyr Tydfil, but much more deprived—and yet there is £40 million in the Derry Credit Union, and 27,000 members, which is half of the town’s population. It is a huge achievement, which John Hume ranks higher than the peace process because he knows that what he created will go on forever, from strength to strength. All of us would like to be able to make such a boast at the end of a long career—that if you were to retire tomorrow, you would know the extent of the community involvement and backing, and the sheer financial muscle power that that body now has. John Hume said that if he could choose the words on his gravestone he would want to see on it, ‘I set up the Derry Credit Union’.

yn Saesneg Fe archwiliaf rai o’r problemau sy’n gysylltiedig â’r mudiad undebau credyd, er mwyn i’r Aelodau weld beth yw safbwynt y weinyddiaeth ar y mater hwn. A ydych am gael mwy o undebau credyd neu undebau credyd mwy? Mae hynny’n fater anodd. Ar ôl derbyn cyngor gan Ganolfan Gydweithredol Cymru, mae’r weinyddiaeth yn dueddol o gredu na ddylid ehangu nifer yr undebau credyd. Byddai’n well cyfuno rhai o’r undebau credyd a’u gwneud yn fawr a chryf. Wrth ystyried undebau credyd, yr wyf yn aml yn meddwl am waith aruthrol John Hume, cyn-arweinydd y Blaid Lafur Gymdeithasol a Democrataidd a ymddeolodd yn ddiweddar. Efallai ichi ei weld yn cael ei gyfweld yn fanwl yn ddiweddar ar y teledu. Pan ofynnwyd iddo beth oedd ei gyflawniad mwyaf yn ystod ei yrfa hir mewn gwleidyddiaeth, dywedodd mai sefydlu Undeb Credyd Derry oedd hynny. Pan ofynnwyd iddo a oedd hynny’n bwysicach na’r broses heddwch, dywedodd ei fod. Mae Derry yn dref dlawd gyda 60,000 o drigolion—ateb Gogledd Iwerddon i Ferthyr Tudful, ond yn llawer mwy difreintiedig—ac eto mae £40 miliwn yn Undeb Credyd Derry, a 27,000 o aelodau, sef hanner poblogaeth y dref. Mae’n gyflawniad aruthrol, sydd, ym marn John Hume yn bwysicach na’r broses heddwch am y gŵyr y bydd yr hyn a grëodd yn parhau am byth, ac yn mynd o nerth i nerth. Byddai pob un ohonom yn hoffi gallu brolio hynny ar ddiwedd gyrfa hir—hynny yw pe byddech yn ymddeol yfory, byddech yn ymwybodol o faint cyfranogiad a chefnogaeth y gymuned, a’r pŵer ariannol mawr sydd gan y corff hwnnw erbyn hyn. Dywedodd John Hume pe gallai ddewis ei eiriau ei hun i roi ar ei garreg fedd yna byddai am weld y geiriau, ‘Sefydlais Undeb Credyd Derry’ arni.

That is a strong argument in favour of larger credit unions rather than more of them. They should not be increased in number, but amalgamated. That is currently a big issue for us in Cardiff, as we have eight or nine credit unions. Is it a good idea to base them on the neighbourhoods, or is better to amalgamate them, getting more professional support, and making them more able to train volunteers? You lose some of that neighbourhood identification, if it is the Ely and District Credit Union, for example, or the Llanishen and District Credit Union. However, is it better in the end to keep that identity or is it better to relinquish that in favour of the greater strength that comes with increased professionalism, larger sums of money, and, therefore, the ability to recycle the savings more effectively?

yn Saesneg Mae honno’n ddadl gref o blaid undebau credyd mwy yn hytrach na mwy ohonynt. Ni ddylid cynyddu eu nifer, ond yn hytrach eu cyfuno. Mae hyn yn fater pwysig inni yma yng Nghaerdydd, am fod gennym wyth neu naw undeb credyd. A yw’n syniad da eu sylfaenu ar y cymdogaethau, neu a yw’n well eu cyfuno gan sicrhau mwy o gymorth proffesiynol, a’u gwneud yn fwy abl i hyfforddi gwirfoddolwyr? Fe gollwch rywfaint o hunaniaeth y gymdogaeth honno, os mai Undeb Credyd Trelái a’r Cylch ydyw, er enghraifft, neu Undeb Credyd Llanisien a’r Cylch. Fodd bynnag, a yw’n well yn y pen draw cadw’r hunaniaeth hwnnw neu a yw’n well diddymu hynny o blaid y cryfder cynyddol a ddaw yn sgîl mwy o broffesiynoldeb, symiau mwy o arian ac felly, y gallu i ailgylchu’r arbedion yn fwy effeithiol?

Huw Lewis talked about the purpose of credit unions. Do they provide banking for those without bank accounts? Do they provide for the people that the banks do not want—people whose credit ratings are low? Much strength comes to the credit union movement because they are located in neighbourhoods or small towns where banks have withdrawn, and in council estates where banks have never existed. Or, should we try to de-stigmatise and disassociate these unions from being banking for the poor? In Ireland there is no association with poverty: everybody belongs to a credit union. There is an Irish barristers’ credit union and an Irish accountants’ credit union—perhaps there is an Irish bankers’ credit union, although that might sound paradoxical. Everybody belongs to a credit union: the middle classes, the upper classes, the lower classes and the welfare-dependent. That is an issue for us to address. Do we try to disassociate it from the concept of deprivation, or try to see it as something that is primarily for people who are outside the conventional attractions of being able to walk into a bank and open an account? We must try to decide.

yn Saesneg Soniodd Huw Lewis am bwrpas undebau credyd. A ydynt yn darparu cyfleuster bancio i’r rhai heb gyfrifon banc? A ydynt yn gwasanaethu’r bobl nad yw’r banciau eu heisiau—pobl â statws credyd isel? Daw llawer o gryfder i’r mudiad undebau credyd oherwydd eu bod wedi eu lleoli mewn cymdogaethau neu drefi bach lle mae banciau wedi cau, ac mewn ystadau tai lle nad yw banciau erioed wedi bodoli. Neu, a ddylem geisio cael gwared ar enw drwg a chysylltiad yr undebau hyn â bancio ar gyfer pobl dlawd? Yn Iwerddon ni cheir unrhyw gyswllt â thlodi: mae pawb yn aelod o undeb credyd. Ceir undeb credyd i fargyfreithwyr ac undeb credyd i gyfrifwyr yn Iwerddon—efallai bod undeb credyd i fancwyr yn Iwerddon, er y gallai hynny swnio’n baradocsaidd. Mae pawb yn perthyn i undeb credyd: y dosbarth canol, y dosbarth uwch a’r dosbarth is a phobl sy’n ddibynnol ar fudd-daliadau. Mae hynny’n fater y dylem fynd i’r afael ag ef. A ydym am geisio ei ddatgysylltu o’r cysyniad o amddifadedd, neu a ydym am ei ystyried fel rhywbeth a anelir yn bennaf at bobl sydd y tu allan i’r atyniadau confensiynol o allu cerdded i mewn i fanc ac agor cyfrif? Rhaid inni geisio penderfynu.

I do not think that you can forget entirely that it is associated with people who are not attractive to the commercial banks. As Ann said earlier, the great attraction to the administration of supporting credit unions is that it puts the loan sharks out of business, which is extremely important and which we strongly support. Secondly, it is at the heart of any idea of community empowerment. You can tell a community to take control of its own financial destiny, to not be picked off one-by-one by the loan sharks, to put its money together into a co-operative recycling facility, to trust each other, to undergo the professional training, and to get involved in the voluntary capacity. They will be amazed by the extent to which an area can take control of its own destiny, and build stronger bonds between the people in the area.

yn Saesneg Ni chredaf y gallwn anghofio’n llwyr ei fod yn gysylltiedig â phobl nad ydynt yn ddeniadol i’r banciau masnachol. Fel y dywedodd Ann yn gynharach, un fantais fawr i’r weinyddiaeth o gefnogi undebau credyd yw bod hyn yn diddymu busnes benthycwyr diegwyddor, sy’n bwysig iawn ac sy’n cael ein cefnogaeth lwyr. Yn ail, mae wrth wraidd unrhyw syniad o roi awdurdod i gymuned. Gallwch ddweud wrth gymuned i gymryd rheolaeth dros ei thynged ariannol ei hun, i beidio â chael ei denu fesul un gan y benthycwyr diegwyddor, i roi ei harian ynghyd mewn cyfleuster ailgylchu cydfuddianol, i ymddiried yn ei gilydd, i gael hyfforddiant proffesiynol ac i ddod yn rhan o swyddogaeth wirfoddol. Cânt eu synnu gan y graddau y gall ardal reoli ei thynged ei hun, ac adeiladu cysylltiadau cryfach rhwng y bobl yn yr ardal.

This community empowerment based on a well tried and trusted model such as the credit union is an exciting concept. I know that a credit union in south London collapsed recently and had to be bailed out. That will be seen as a setback to the movement and will not make it as easy to sell. However, that is extremely rare because most people would not dare to let down their neighbours in that way. You will always get one example—one a decade, or one in a large country like Great Britain—but other than that, you get high standards of probity by investing in the willingness of people to build a stronger community. It is good for them and is enlightened self-interest. Based on the principle of co-operation, credit unions are important in terms of building greater strength in our communities, in particular those that are less well off, or more isolated geographically, as Mick Bates indicated, or socially by being large, edge-of-town council estates like Ely in my constituency and its equivalents in towns that many of you represent. There are specific advantages to credit unions, which is why we invested Objective 1 money in them.

yn Saesneg Mae’r broses hon o roi awdurdod i’r gymuned yn seiliedig ar fodel dibynadwy yr undeb credyd yn gysyniad cyffrous. Gwn i undeb credyd yn ne Llundain fynd i’r wal yn ddiweddar a bu’n rhaid rhoi cymorth iddo. Caiff hynny ei ystyried fel rhwystr i’r mudiad ac ni fydd mor hawdd i’w werthu. Fodd bynnag, mae hynny’n ddigwyddiad prin iawn oherwydd ni fyddai’r rhan fwyaf o bobl yn meiddio siomi eu cymdogion yn y ffordd yma. Bydd un enghraifft o hyd—unwaith mewn degawd, neu un mewn gwlad fawr fel Prydain—ond ar wahân i hynny, cewch safonau uchel o onestrwydd drwy fuddsoddi ym mharodrwydd pobl i adeiladu cymuned gryfach. Mae’n llesol ac o fudd mawr iddynt. Yn seiliedig ar yr egwyddor o gydweithredu, mae undebau credyd yn bwysig yn nhermau creu mwy o gryfder yn ein cymunedau, yn arbennig y rhai llai ffyniannus, neu sydd wedi’u hynysu’n ddaearyddol, fel yr awgrymodd Mick Bates, neu’n gymdeithasol drwy fod yn ystadau cyngor mawr ar gyrion y dref fel Trelái yn fy etholaeth i a lleoedd tebyg yn y trefi y mae nifer ohonoch yn eu cynrychioli. Mae i undebau credyd fanteision penodol, a dyna pam ein bod wedi buddsoddi arian Amcan 1 ynddynt.

Ann addressed some points to me on rate relief and her belief that there is more specific guidance for local authorities in Scotland. That is not the case. There is no such guidance and there is no immediate plans to issue any. The grass always seems greener on the other side of the hill. However, as we understand it, the Scottish Executive will not be issuing guidance to the Scottish local authorities. If that information is out-of-date or wrong, I would be pleased to hear from Ann, or Abcol, or any of the other credit union professional bodies.

yn Saesneg Esboniodd Ann rai o’r pwyntiau cymorth treth imi a’i chred bod mwy o ganllawiau penodol ar gael i awdurdodau lleol yn yr Alban. Nid yw hynny’n wir. Nid oes canllawiau o’r fath ac nid oes unrhyw fwriad i gyhoeddi rhai yn y dyfodol agos. Man gwyn man draw. Fodd bynnag, deallwn na fydd Gweithrediaeth yr Alban yn cyhoeddi canllawiau i awdurdodau lleol yr Alban. Os yw’r wybodaeth hon yn hen neu’n anghywir, hoffwn glywed gan Ann, neu Abcol, neu gan unrhyw un o gyrff proffesiynol yr undebau credyd.

The Executive regards the question of discretionary rate relief as a matter primarily for each local authority to determine. We would commend the idea to them, but not by way of guidance. They must decide whether to give discretionary rate relief to credit unions on their premises. That is our position. In every other way we are investing a great deal of money into trying to expand the credit union movement feasibly and as fast as training can be undertaken and the message can be put across to individuals.

yn Saesneg Mae’r Weithrediaeth yn ystyried fod y mater o gymorth treth dewisol yn fater y dylai pob awdurdod lleol unigol benderfynu arno. Byddem yn cymeradwyo’r syniad iddynt, ond nid drwy ganllawiau. Rhaid iddynt hwy benderfynu a ydynt am roi cymorth treth dewisol i undebau credyd ar eu heiddo. Dyna yw ein barn ni. Yr ydym yn buddsoddi swm sylweddol o arian ym mhob ffordd arall i geisio ehangu’r mudiad undebau credyd yn ymarferol a chyn gynted ac y gellir ymgymryd â’r hyfforddiant a chyfleu’r neges i unigolion.

We urge the people of Wales that, regardless of class or social background, or whether they have a bank account or could not get one, to get involved with the credit union movement. They will find it enormously valuable, and it will help to build a strong neighbourhood in their area. It is one of the best things with which people can become involved and is a key part of the social economy. Objective 1 has an important role to develop the social economy through a credit union movement. If, in 10 years’ time, we get anywhere near the huge achievements of the Irish or Scottish credit union movements, I think that the four political parties in the Assembly would consider it an enormous feather in our cap—the democratic combination of the Assembly, the people of Wales and the credit union movement, which can do so much to build the bridges between people of all classes and recycle savings and keep them in the community in a way that is not possible by any other method.

yn Saesneg Anogwn bobl Cymru, waeth beth fo’u cefndir o ran dosbarth neu gefndir cymdeithasol, neu pa un ai a oes ganddynt gyfrif banc ai peidio neu os na allant gael un, i ddod yn rhan o’r mudiad undebau credyd. Bydd yn hynod fuddiol iddynt, a bydd yn helpu i adeiladu cymdogaeth gref yn eu hardal. Mae’n un o’r pethau gorau y gall pobl gymryd rhan ynddo ac mae’n rhan allweddol o’r economi gymdeithasol. Mae gan Amcan 1 rôl bwysig i’w chwarae wrth ddatblygu’r economi gymdeithasol drwy’r mudiad undebau credyd. Os gallwn, ymhen 10 mlynedd, gyflawni hanner cyflawniadau aruthrol mudiadau undebau credyd Iwerddon neu’r Alban, credaf y byddai pedair plaid wleidyddol y Cynulliad yn ystyried hynny’n bluen yn ein cap—cyfuniad democrataidd o’r Cynulliad, pobl Cymru a’r mudiad undebau credyd, a all wneud cymaint i greu pontydd rhwng pobl o bob dosbarth ac ailgylchu arbedion a’u cadw yn y gymuned mewn ffordd nad yw’n bosibl drwy unrhyw ddull arall.

John Marek The Deputy Presiding Officer spoken in English p. 105

John Marek Y Dirprwy Lywydd siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 105

That brings today’s proceedings to a close.

Daw hyn â chyfarfod heddiw i ben.

Daeth y cyfarfod i ben am 12.58 p.m.

The session ended at 12.58 p.m.