Cynulliad Cenedlaethol CymruNational Assembly for Wales · Cyfarfod llawnPlenary sitting
Dydd Mercher 6 Tachwedd 2002
Wednesday 6 November 2002
CynnwysContents
- 3Datganiad gan y LlywyddStatement by the Presiding Officer
- 3Cwestiynau i’r Gweinidog dros Ddiwylliant, Chwaraeon a’r GymraegQuestions to the Minister for Culture, Sport and the Welsh Language
- 15Cwestiynau i Ddirprwy Brif Weinidog Cymru a’r Gweinidog dros Ddatblygu Gwledig a Chymru DramorQuestions to the Deputy First Minister and Minister for Rural Development and Wales Abroad
- 26Pwynt o DrefnPoint of Order
- 27Cwestiynau i’r TrefnyddQuestions to the Business Minister
- 35Pwynt o DrefnPoint of Order
- 35Cynnig Cyfansawdd: Cymeradwyo GorchmynionComposite Motion: Approval of Orders 1 bleidlais1 vote
- 37Cymeradwyo Cyllideb Derfynol y CynulliadApproval of the Assembly’s Final Budget 1 bleidlais1 vote
- 66Pwynt o DrefnPoint of Order
- 66Dadl o dan Reol Sefydlog Rhif 29: Is-ddeddfwriaeth o dan Ddeddf yr Amgylchedd 1995Debate under Standing Order No. 29: Subordinate Legislation under the Environment Act 1995 4 o bleidleisiau4 votes
- 89Dadl FerShort Debate
PleidleisiauVotes
| PleidlaisVote | O blaidFor | YmatalAbstain | Yn erbynAgainst | CanlyniadResult |
|---|---|---|---|---|
| Cynnig Cyfansawdd: Cymeradwyo GorchmynionComposite Motion: Approval of Orders | ||||
| Cynnig cyfansawdd NDM1200Composite motion NDM1200 | 41 | 0 | 0 | DerbyniwydAdopted |
| Cymeradwyo Cyllideb Derfynol y CynulliadApproval of the Assembly’s Final Budget | ||||
| Cynnig NDM1201Motion NDM1201 | 29 | 12 | 10 | DerbyniwydAdopted |
| Dadl o dan Reol Sefydlog Rhif 29: Is-ddeddfwriaeth o dan Ddeddf yr Amgylchedd 1995Debate under Standing Order No. 29: Subordinate Legislation under the Environment Act 1995 | ||||
| Gwelliant 1Amendment 1 | 20 | 0 | 30 | GwrthodwydRejected |
| Gwelliant 3Amendment 3 | 20 | 0 | 30 | GwrthodwydRejected |
| Gwelliant 4Amendment 4 | 20 | 0 | 30 | GwrthodwydRejected |
| Cynnig NDM1167Motion NDM1167 | 20 | 0 | 30 | GwrthodwydRejected |
TrafodionProceedings
Cyfarfu’r Cynulliad am 2 p.m. gyda’r Llywydd yn y Gadair.
The Assembly met at 2 p.m. with the Presiding Officer in the Chair.
Datganiad gan y Llywydd
Statement by the Presiding Officer
Dafydd Elis-Thomas Y Llywydd siaradwyd yn Gymraeg t. 3
Dafydd Elis-Thomas The Presiding Officer spoken in Welsh p. 3
Gyda thristwch mawr cyhoeddir marwolaeth James Mithan. Bu farw neithiwr, 5 Tachwedd, yn dilyn damwain ffordd. Ymunodd James â Swyddfa’r Llywydd yn Ionawr 2001 i weithio fel swyddog gwybodaeth a dehongli yn y gwasanaethau addysg a gwybodaeth i’r cyhoedd. Ym mis Ionawr eleni, ymunodd â gwasanaeth ymchwil yr Aelodau yn y Llyfrgell ym mae Caerdydd. Cydymdeimlwn fel Cynulliad yn ddwys â theulu a ffrindiau James. Fel arwydd o barch, penderfynais ostwng y baneri ar yr adeilad hwn am weddill y dydd.
With great sadness, the death of James Mithan is announced. He died last night, 5 November, following a road accident. James joined the Presiding Office in January 2001 to work as an information and interpretation officer in the public information and education services. In January this year, he joined the Members’ research service in the Library in Cardiff bay. We send our deepest condolences as an Assembly to James’s family and friends. As a mark of respect, I decided that the flags on this building should fly at half-mast for the remainder of the day.
Cwestiynau i’r Gweinidog dros Ddiwylliant, Chwaraeon a’r Gymraeg
Questions to the Minister for Culture, Sport and the Welsh Language
Doniau Newydd mewn Chwaraeon
Young Talent in Sport
Pa gamau y mae’r Gweinidog wedi eu cymryd i feithrin doniau newydd mewn chwaraeon? (OAQ19989)
What actions has the Minister taken to nurture young talent in sport? (OAQ19989)
Jenny Randerson The Minister for Culture, Sport and the Welsh Language spoken in English p. 3
Jenny Randerson Y Gweinidog dros Ddiwylliant, Chwaraeon a’r Iaith Gymraeg siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 3
The Welsh Assembly Government’s policy on developing young talent in Wales is based on the Elite Cymru and Coach Cymru schemes. Run by the Sports Council for Wales, these schemes aim to provide support services for developing individual talent. I am pleased to say that Wales is performing better than ever before on the international stage in a wide range of sports.
Mae polisi Llywodraeth Cynulliad Cymru ar ddatblygu doniau newydd yng Nghymru yn seiliedig ar gynlluniau Elite Cymru a Coach Cymru. Cyngor Chwaraeon Cymru sy’n rhedeg y cynlluniau hyn, a’u nod yw darparu gwasanaethau cymorth ar gyfer datblygu doniau unigol. Yr wyf yn falch o ddweud bod Cymru yn perfformio’n well nag erioed o’r blaen ar y llwyfan rhyngwladol mewn amrywiaeth eang o chwaraeon.
A ydych yn cydnabod potensial clybiau bechgyn a merched yng Nghymru i ddefnyddio chwaraeon i helpu wrth ddenu pobl ifanc yn ôl i addysg? A wnewch chi gefnogi mentrau sy’n ceisio gwneud hynny?
Do you recognise the potential of boys and girls clubs in Wales to use sport to attract young people back into education? Will you support initiatives that endeavour to do this?
I recognise the potential of a number of institutions, including boys and girls clubs. Youth clubs, dedicated sports clubs, and so on, have an important role in ensuring that young people remain in the mainstream of society and that they live a healthy lifestyle. Motivating young people via sport is important, and that is recognised by many of the Sports Council for Wales’s lottery schemes.
Yr wyf yn cydnabod potensial nifer o sefydliadau, gan gynnwys clybiau bechgyn a merched. Mae gan glybiau ieuenctid, clybiau chwaraeon penodedig, ac ati, rôl bwysig wrth sicrhau bod pobl ifanc yn parhau i aros ym mhrif ffrwd y gymdeithas a’u bod yn byw’n iach. Mae’n bwysig annog pobl ifanc drwy chwaraeon, ac mae llawer o gynlluniau loteri Cyngor Chwaraeon Cymru yn cydnabod hynny.
You mentioned the criteria governing the sport council’s administration of the Sportlot fund. Will you join me in congratulating a group in Coelbren—an isolated community at the top of the Swansea valley—which has put together an impressive bid to develop a sports field and sports changing facilities? The community is developing sporting opportunities for young people who find it difficult to travel to existing facilities in that area.
Soniasoch am y meini prawf sy’n rheoli dull y cyngor chwaraeon o weinyddu’r gronfa Sportlot. A ymunwch â mi wrth longyfarch grŵp yn y Coelbren—cymuned ynysig ym mhen uchaf cwm Tawe—sydd wedi creu cais nodedig i ddatblygu maes chwarae a chyfleusterau newid ar gyfer chwaraeon? Mae’r gymuned yn datblygu cyfleoedd chwaraeon ar gyfer pobl ifanc sy’n ei chael yn anodd i deithio i gyfleusterau presennol yn yr ardal honno.
I draw Members’ attention to two types of sports council money and new opportunities fund money. First, there is the community chest fund, which does not even require the completion of an application form—it is the simplest means of sports council funding that communities can access. Secondly, there is the ambitious new opportunities fund programme, of £48.5 million, which is being spent largely in schools, but only on facilities that are open to the community. That is an important development. Bringing communities back into schools is an important part of both community and sport development.
Tynnaf sylw’r Aelodau at ddau fath o arian y cyngor chwaraeon ac arian y gronfa cyfleoedd newydd. Yn gyntaf, y gronfa gymunedol, nad oes angen cwblhau ffurflen gais ar ei chyfer hyd yn oed—dyma’r ffordd symlaf i gymunedau gael mynediad i arian y cyngor chwaraeon. Yn ail, mae’r rhaglen cronfa cyfleoedd newydd uchelgeisiol, o £48.5 miliwn, sy’n cael ei wario mewn ysgolion yn bennaf, ond dim ond ar gyfleusterau sy’n agored i’r gymuned. Mae hynny’n ddatblygiad pwysig. Mae ailgyflwyno cymunedau i mewn i ysgolion yn rhan bwysig o ddatblygiad cymunedau ac o ddatblygiad chwaraeon.
In the Sports Council for Wales’ latest publication, which I received this morning, the chief executive refers to inadequate allocation of time for physical education, lack of PE specialists, insufficient up-to-date training for PE teachers and inadequate PE facilities in primary schools. Do you support his call for every primary school pupil to receive two hours per week of physical education?
Yng nghyhoeddiad diweddaraf Cyngor Chwaraeon Cymru, a dderbyniais y bore yma, mae’r prif weithredwr yn cyfeirio at ddyraniad annigonol o amser ar gyfer addysg gorfforol, diffyg arbenigwyr addysg gorfforol, hyfforddiant annigonol nad yw’n gyfoes ar gyfer athrawon addysg gorfforol a chyfleusterau addysg gorfforol annigonol mewn ysgolion cynradd. A gefnogwch ei gais y dylai pob disgybl ysgol gynradd gael dwy awr o addysg gorfforol yr wythnos?
Those comments relate to the evidence given as part of the taskforce on PE and sports provision in primary schools, which was chaired by the sports council. The Minister for Education and Lifelong Learning has taken the taskforce’s report on board because, as you will be aware, these are issues for her. She has allocated £0.5 million in the current year for a pilot project, and yesterday, I believe, she announced funding of £5 million over three years to take these issues forward. That financial commitment demonstrates the Welsh Assembly Government’s determination to take these issues seriously.
Mae’r sylwadau hynny’n ymwneud â’r dystiolaeth a roddwyd yn rhan o’r tasglu ar addysg gorfforol a darpariaeth chwaraeon mewn ysgolion cynradd, a gadeiriwyd gan y cyngor chwaraeon. Mae’r Gweinidog dros Addysg a Dysgu Gydol Oes wedi ystyried adroddiad y tasglu oherwydd, fel y byddwch yn ymwybodol, materion iddi hi yw’r rhain. Mae hi wedi neilltuo £0.5 miliwn yn ystod y flwyddyn gyfredol ar gyfer prosiect peilot, a ddoe, fe gredaf, cyhoeddodd £5 miliwn dros dair blynedd i ddatblygu’r materion hyn. Mae’r ymrwymiad ariannol hwnnw’n dangos bod Llywodraeth Cynulliad Cymru yn benderfynol o gymryd y materion hyn o ddifrif.
Llong Ganoloesol, Casnewydd
Medieval Ship, Newport
How has the Minister reflected the importance of the medieval ship discovered in Newport in her efforts to ensure its preservation? (OAQ19998) [R]
Sut y mae’r Gweinidog wedi adlewyrchu pwysigrwydd y Llong Ganoloesol a ddarganfuwyd yng Nghasnewydd, yn ei hymdrechion i sicrhau ei bod yn cael ei chadw? (OAQ19998) [R]
Although this issue has cross-cutting interest, it is primarily of interest to the culture portfolio because the ship was found underneath a theatre and arts centre development that is receiving arts council lottery funding. The ship, as you will know, is unique. It is an ocean-going vessel dating from the fifteenth century, and is a vital part of our maritime heritage. That is why the Finance Minister announced Assembly funding of up to £3.5 million to safely remove, preserve and display the ship in a basement under the foyer of the Newport theatre where it was found.
Er bod y mater hwn yn un o ddiddordeb trawsbynciol, y portffolio diwylliannol sydd â’r diddordeb pennaf ynddo oherwydd i’r llong gael ei darganfod o dan ddatblygiad theatr a chanolfan gelfyddydau sy’n cael arian y loteri gan gyngor y celfyddydau. Mae’r llong yn unigryw, fel y gwyddoch. Mae’n llong gefnforol sy’n dyddio o’r bymthegfed ganrif, ac mae’n rhan hanfodol o’n treftadaeth forwrol. Dyna pam y cyhoeddodd y Gweinidog Cyllid dros £3.5 miliwn i symud, diogelu ac arddangos y llong yn ddiogel mewn islawr o dan gyntedd theatr Casnewydd lle cafodd ei darganfod.
An announcement yesterday stated that the excavation of this vessel continues to reveal unique features; that increases the historical significance of this find. The ship’s national importance is recognised. The proposed facilities to exhibit the ship will be much bigger than the arts centre currently being constructed on the site. How does the Minster intend to ensure that the whole ship is preserved and then displayed in a building that reflects its importance?
Mewn cyhoeddiad ddoe nodwyd bod y gwaith o gloddio’r llong hon yn parhau i ddatgelu nodweddion unigryw; mae hynny’n cynyddu pwysigrwydd hanesyddol y darganfyddiad hwn. Cydnabyddir pwysigrwydd cenedlaethol y llong. Bydd y cyfleusterau arfaethedig ar gyfer arddangos y llong yn llawer mwy na’r ganolfan gelfyddydau sy’n cael ei hadeiladu ar y safle ar hyn o bryd. Sut mae’r Gweinidog yn bwriadu sicrhau bod y llong gyfan yn cael ei chadw ac yna ei harddangos mewn adeilad sy’n adlewyrchu ei phwysigrwydd?
It is important for me to repeat that I am involved with this matter because the ship was found on that particular site. The latest news that I have about the regular site meetings is that the ship is now out of the ground. The contractors will shortly excavate its bow and stern and, if anything is found, it will be removed under the supervision of the Glamorgan-Gwent Archaeological Trust. The stern was destroyed by later riverside defences and the bow simply disintegrated over the centuries. Other decisions will be made by my colleague, Sue Essex, Cadw: Welsh Historic Monuments and Newport City Council.
Mae’n bwysig imi ailadrodd fy mod yn ymwneud â’r mater hwn oherwydd i’r llong gael ei darganfod ar y safle arbennig hwnnw. Y newyddion diweddaraf sydd gennyf am y cyfarfodydd rheolaidd ar y safle yw bod y llong allan o’r ddaear bellach. Bydd y contractwyr yn cloddio ei blaen a’i starn ac, os caiff unrhyw beth ei ddarganfod, caiff ei symud o dan oruchwyliaeth Ymddiriedolaeth Archeolegol Morgannwg-Gwent. Dinistriwyd y starn gan amddiffynfeydd glan yr afon diweddarach, a dadfeiliodd y blaen dros y canrifoedd. Gwneir penderfyniadau eraill gan fy nghyd-Aelod, Sue Essex, Cadw: Henebion Cymru a Chyngor Dinas Casnewydd.
I am glad that William has raised this issue; it is exciting to see the ship in situ. I thank the Minister for taking the lead in ensuring that the Assembly was able to allocate some funding for its excavation. I hope that you will co-ordinate that role to ensure that, if more money is required, you can persuade your fellow Ministers to allocate it.
Yr wyf yn falch i William godi’r mater hwn; mae’n gyffrous gweld y llong yn ei lle. Diolchaf i’r Gweinidog am gymryd yr arweiniad i sicrhau bod y Cynulliad yn gallu neilltuo rhywfaint o arian ar gyfer y gwaith cloddio. Gobeithio y byddwch yn cydlynu’r rôl honno i sicrhau, os bydd angen rhagor o arian, y gallwch ddarbwyllo eich cyd Weinidogion i’w neilltuo.
The Assembly has acted with commendable speed. I was determined from the start for us to find the time for the ship’s excavation, and I am grateful to the Finance Minister for her speedy work in ensuring that money was made available via Newport City Council. Any further implications will have to be taken on board if and when any further developments arise that might lead us to reconsider our strategy.
Dylid cymeradwyo’r Cynulliad am weithio mor gyflym. Yr oeddwn yn benderfynol o’r cychwyn inni gael yr amser i gloddio’r llong, ac yr wyf yn ddiolchgar i’r Gweinidog Cyllid am ei gwaith cyflym i sicrhau bod arian ar gael drwy Gyngor Dinas Casnewydd. Bydd yn rhaid ystyried unrhyw oblygiadau eraill os a phan y bydd unrhyw ddatblygiadau pellach yn codi a allai beri inni ailystyried ein strategaeth.
Minister, do you agree that, to judge the potential of the Newport ship, a fair comparison may be made with the medieval trading ships in Roskilde, Denmark? They are effective tourist attractions, remembering that they are the prize exhibits in a museum displaying other historical material. Will you continue your efforts to ensure that the exciting potential of this find is fully realised to benefit the economy of Newport in future?
Weinidog, a gytunwch, er mwyn penderfynu ar botensial llong Casnewydd, y gellid gwneud cymhariaeth deg â’r llongau masnach canoloesol yn Roskilde, Denmarc? Maent yn atyniadau effeithiol i dwristiaid, o gofio mai hwy yw’r prif atyniad mewn amgueddfa sy’n arddangos deunydd hanesyddol arall. A barhewch â’ch ymdrechion i sicrhau y caiff potensial cyffrous y darganfyddiad hwn ei wireddu’n llawn er budd economi Casnewydd yn y dyfodol?
This ship is not only important in terms of our culture and heritage but also as a potentially important tourism attraction for Newport. It may be useful for Members to know that Newport City Council has approached the Heritage Lottery Fund concerning the potential for an assistance grant.
Mae’r llong hon yn bwysig nid yn unig o ran ein diwylliant a’n treftadaeth ond mae hefyd yn atyniad i dwristiaid a allai fod yn bwysig i Gasnewydd. Efallai y bydd yn ddefnyddiol i’r Aelodau wybod bod Cyngor Dinas Casnewydd wedi cysylltu â Chronfa Treftadaeth y Loteri ynghylch y posibilrwydd o gael grant cymorth.
Y Diwydiant Ffilm yng Nghymru
The Welsh Film Industry
Will the Minister make a statement on the Welsh film industry? (OAQ19944)
A wnaiff y Gweinidog ddatganiad ar y diwydiant ffilmiau yng Nghymru? (OAQ19944)
Film is a vibrant and growing industry in Wales. The Wales Screen Commission, which I will officially launch this month, continues to promote Wales as a competitive film location. The commission is a constituent part of Sgrîn, which continues to work with all key partners in developing and nurturing the film sector. Work on establishing a film, television and new media fund, which would further support the film industry, is well underway.
Mae’r diwydiant ffilmiau yn ddiwydiant bywiog sy’n tyfu yng Nghymru. Mae Comisiwn Sgrîn Cymru, y byddaf yn ei lansio’n swyddogol y mis hwn, yn parhau i hyrwyddo Cymru fel lleoliad cystadleuol ar gyfer ffilmiau. Mae’r comisiwn yn rhan o gyfansoddiad Sgrîn, sy’n parhau i weithio â phob partner allweddol wrth ddatblygu a meithrin y sector ffilmiau. Mae gwaith ar sefydlu cronfa ffilmiau, teledu a chyfryngau newydd, a fyddai o gymorth pellach i’r diwydiant ffilmiau, yn prysur fynd rhagddo.
The film fund is particularly important if we are to encourage Wales to develop its film industry, and as a venue for film. Can you give a timescale as to when that film fund will be up and running?
Mae’r gronfa ffilmiau yn arbennig o bwysig os ydym am annog Cymru i ddatblygu ei diwydiant ffilmiau, ac fel lleoliad ar gyfer ffilmiau. A allwch ddweud wrthym pryd y bydd y gronfa ffilmiau honno wedi ei sefydlu?
We are in the process of applying for Objective 1 money. It is difficult to predict precisely, but I hope to be able to make an announcement sometime in the spring.
Yr ydym yn y broses o wneud cais am arian Amcan 1. Mae’n anodd rhagweld yn union, ond gobeithio y gallaf wneud datganiad rywbryd yn y gwanwyn.
Sir Alan Parker, chairman of the UK’s Film Council, yesterday made a major speech on the problems facing the UK film industry and outlined a strategy for its future. In Wales, S4C has pioneered film production in recent years and has done much to develop an indigenous industry. With the prospect of new film studios coming to Llanilid, near Llanharan—thanks to the efforts of Rhondda Cynon Taf County Borough Council—what aid can the Assembly Government provide to ensure that Wales plays a creative role in this project?
Gwnaeth Syr Alan Parker, cadeirydd Cyngor Ffilm y DU, araith bwysig ddoe ar y problemau sy’n wynebu diwydiant ffilmiau’r DU ac amlinellodd strategaeth ar gyfer ei ddyfodol. Yng Nghymru, mae S4C wedi torri tir newydd o ran cynhyrchu ffilmiau yn ystod y blynyddoedd diwethaf a gwnaed llawer i ddatblygu diwydiant cynhenid. Gyda’r posibilrwydd y bydd stiwdios ffilmiau newydd yn dod i Lanilid, ger Llanharan—diolch i ymdrechion Cyngor Bwrdeistref Sirol Rhondda Cynon Taf—pa gymorth y gall Llywodraeth y Cynulliad ei ddarparu i sicrhau bod Cymru’n chwarae rôl greadigol yn y prosiect hwn?
You should already know that the Assembly Government has been closely involved from the first stages of this exciting project, and is closely considering the wide range of aid available. There will undoubtedly be assistance for the project concept once the film fund is up and running. We are also working with the higher education sector to ensure that training and skills are available to match the exciting capital development proposed.
Dylech wybod eisoes bod Llywodraeth y Cynulliad wedi chwarae rhan fawr yn y prosiect cyffrous hwn o’i gamau dechreuol, a’i bod yn ystyried yn fanwl yr amrywiaeth eang o gymorth sydd ar gael. Heb os bydd cymorth ar gyfer cysyniad y prosiect unwaith y bydd y gronfa ffilmiau wedi ei sefydlu. Yr ydym hefyd yn gweithio â’r sector addysg uwch i sicrhau bod hyfforddiant a sgiliau ar gael i gyfateb â’r datblygiad cyfalaf cyffrous arfaethedig.
The Minister will be familiar with many of the programmes broadcast over the last week or so to commemorate S4C’s twentieth anniversary. In seeking credibility in its uncertain days, S4C made specific efforts to create Welsh films, with Welsh actors and strong Welsh themes, with the aim of winning Oscars. What consideration has the Minister given to urging S4C and other film makers in Wales to revisit such an agenda to win Oscars and gain as much credibility for Wales as possible?
Bydd y Gweinidog yn gyfarwydd â llawer o’r rhaglenni a ddarlledwyd dros yr wythnos diwethaf i ddathlu pen-blwydd S4C yn 20 oed. Wrth geisio ennill hygrededd mewn amser ansicr yn ei hanes, gwnaeth S4C ymdrechion penodol i greu ffilmiau Cymreig, gydag actorion Cymreig a themâu Cymreig cryf, gyda’r nod o ennill Oscars. Pa ystyriaeth y mae’r Gweinidog wedi ei rhoi i annog S4C a gwneuthurwyr ffilmiau eraill yng Nghymru i roi cynnig arall ar agenda o’r fath i ennill Oscars ac ennill cymaint o hygrededd ag sy’n bosibl ar gyfer Cymru?
S4C continues to follow that agenda. For example, it was a prime mover in presenting work at the cartoon forum in north Wales in September, and Sali Mali is currently nominated in the British Academy Children’s Film and Television Awards. It is competing with Bob the Builder, Andy Pandy and Eddy and the Bear. Two other S4C cartoons are also nominated, namely, Bad Baby Amy and Sir Gawain and the Green Knight. Therefore, we have a strong set of programmes to contribute to the competition.
Mae S4C yn parhau i ddilyn yr agenda honno. Er enghraifft, yr oedd yn un o’r prif gyfranwyr wrth gyflwyno gwaith yn y fforwm cartwnau yn y Gogledd ym mis Medi, ac ar hyn o bryd mae Sali Mali wedi cael ei enwebu yng Ngwobrau Ffilmiau a Theledu i Blant yr Academi Brydeinig. Mae’n cystadlu â Bob the Builder, Andy Pandy ac Eddy and the Bear. Enwebwyd dau o gartwnau eraill S4C hefyd, sef Bad Baby Amy a Sir Gawain and the Green Knight. Felly, mae gennym set gryf o raglenni i gyfrannu i’r gystadleuaeth.
Pêl-droed yng Nghymru
Welsh Football
Can the Minister outline recent developments with regard to Welsh football? (OAQ19975)
A wnaiff y Gweinidog amlinellu’r datblygiadau diweddar mewn perthynas â phêl droed yng Nghymru? (OAQ19975)
As well as celebrating Wales’s famous victory over Italy, I recently received the Football Forum’s final report, and have been considering its recommendations on the structure and funding of football development in Wales. It is a thoughtful and constructive report that merits an enthusiastic and significant Government response. I will make an announcement to this effect soon.
Yn ogystal â dathlu buddugoliaeth enwog Cymru dros yr Eidal, yn ddiweddar derbyniais adroddiad terfynol y Fforwm Pêl-droed, a bûm yn ystyried ei argymhellion ar sdrwythur y gwaith o ddatblygu pêl-droed yng Nghymru a’r modd y caiff ei ariannu. Mae’n adroddiad ystyriol ac adeiladol sy’n haeddu ymateb brwdfrydig a sylweddol gan y Llywodraeth. Gwnaf ddatganiad ar hyn yn fuan.
In light of the recent success of our national football team, have you had any discussions with the Football Association of Wales about the potential for an increased income, which could be used, for example, to fund ground improvements or youth football developments?
O ystyried llwyddiant diweddar ein tîm pêl-droed cenedlaethol, a gawsoch unrhyw drafodaethau â Chymdeithas Pêl-droed Cymru ynghylch y posibilrwydd o gynnydd mewn incwm, y gellir ei ddefnyddio, er enghraifft, i ariannu gwelliannau i gaeau pêl droed neu ddatblygiadau pêl droed i ieuenctid?
It is important to remember that the Wales team has made a staggering leap up the FIFA rankings. Wales now stands at 61, having climbed 39 places in the last few months, which is more than any other team. This means that more money is coming into Wales through takings at the gates. It is important that the FAW is able to use this in several ways, for example, to help improve the grounds of League of Wales clubs, which was covered by the Football Forum report. Work is also needed in other areas, such as youth development. One must bear in mind the different strands of football when making funding decisions.
Mae’n bwysig cofio bod tîm Cymru wedi gwneud naid anferthol i fyny rhestr FIFA. Mae Cymru yn y 61ain safle ar hyn o bryd, wedi dringo 39 safle yn ystod y misoedd diwethaf, sy’n fwy nag unrhyw dîm arall. Golyga hyn bod mwy o arian yn dod i mewn i Gymru yn sgîl yr elw a wneir o brisiau wrth y clwydi. Mae’n bwysig y gall Cymdeithas Pêl-droed Cymru ddefnyddio’r arian hwn mewn sawl ffordd, er enghraifft, i helpu i wella caeau clybiau Cynghrair Cymru, a gwmpaswyd gan adroddiad y Fforwm Pêl-droed. Mae angen gwaith mewn meysydd eraill hefyd, fel datblygu ieuenctid. Rhaid cofio meysydd gwahanol pêl-droed wrth wneud penderfyniadau ariannu.
On youth development, I am sure that we were all delighted with Wales’s result. All of those players started off as youth players. Michael Owen, for example—who is now a striker for the finest team in the premiership league, but not, unfortunately, for the best international side—began his career with north Wales juniors. He would not have got where he is today had it not been for the volunteers who assisted him in his career. Thousands of volunteers give up as much time as they can to support the game in Wales. They need support in terms of training and money. What does the Assembly Government propose to do to foster these volunteers who play such an important part in Welsh football?
O ran datblygu ieuenctid, yr wyf yn siŵr bod pawb ohonom wrth ein boddau â chanlyniad Cymru. Dechreuodd pob un o’r chwaraewyr hynny fel chwaraewyr ieuenctid. Er enghraifft, dechreuodd Michael Owen—sydd erbyn hyn yn flaenwr ar gyfer tîm gorau’r uwch gynghrair, ond nid, yn anffodus, ar gyfer y tîm rhyngwladol gorau—ei yrfa gyda thîm iau gogledd Cymru. Ni fyddai wedi bod mor llwyddiannus oni bai am y gwirfoddolwyr a’i cynorthwyodd gyda’i yrfa. Mae miloedd o wirfoddolwyr yn rhoi cymaint ag y gallant o’u hamser i gynorthwyo’r gêm yng Nghymru. Mae angen cymorth arnynt o ran hyfforddiant ac arian. Beth y bwriada Llywodraeth y Cynulliad ei wneud i feithrin y gwirfoddolwyr hynny sy’n chwarae rhan mor bwysig ym mhêl-droed Cymru?
I agree with you about the importance of volunteers. For example, there are over 1,000 registered football referees in Wales, and over 10,000 registered coaches. That illustrates the scale of voluntary commitment to the game, which is so important. The Coach Cymru scheme assists with the development and training of coaches. The consideration I have given to fostering coaches and referees will be apparent from my future announcement.
Cytunaf â chi o ran pwysigrwydd gwirfoddolwyr. Er enghraifft, mae dros 1,000 o ddyfarnwyr pêl droed cofrestredig yng Nghymru, a thros 10,000 o hyfforddwyr cofrestredig. Mae hynny’n dangos graddfa’r ymrwymiad gwirfoddol tuag at y gêm, sydd mor bwysig. Mae cynllun Coach Cymru yn cynorthwyo â’r gwaith o ddatblygu a hyfforddi hyfforddwyr. Bydd yr ystyriaeth a roddais i feithrin hyfforddwyr a dyfarnwyr yn amlwg o’r datganiad a wnaf yn y dyfodol.
Are you aware that many people in Wales, including myself, much prefer football to rugby—it helps that we are good at football, and that two of the current team come from my constituency. How can you influence the Welsh media’s manic obsession with rugby, at which we are hopeless, and get them to focus more attention on a game—[Interruption.]
A ydych yn ymwybodol bod yn well gan lawer o bobl Cymru, a minnau yn eu plith, bêl-droed na rygbi—mae’r ffaith ein bod yn cael hwyl ar bêl-droed yn helpu, a bod dau aelod o’r tîm presennol yn dod o’m hetholaeth i. Sut y gallwch ddylanwadu ar obsesiwn gwallgof y cyfryngau yng Nghymru â rygbi, gêm yr ydym yn anobeithiol ynddi, a’u cael i ganolbwyntio rhagor o sylw ar gêm—[Torri ar draws.]
Dafydd Elis-Thomas The Presiding Officer spoken in English p. 10
Dafydd Elis-Thomas Y Llywydd siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 10
Order. Every Member is allowed to express his point of view.
Trefn. Mae gan bod Aelod hawl i ddatgan ei farn.
Shall I repeat the final part, Jenny, to stir things up a little bit more?
A hoffech imi ailadrodd y rhan olaf, Jenny, er mwyn cynhyrfu’r dyfroedd ymhellach?
We have a unique national ability to be divisive. I would not want to pitch football against rugby, although I wish our national rugby side were as successful as our national football side. There is nothing like success for changing the media’s focus. Twice the number of people watched the last football game against Italy on BBC2 than watched the England versus Macedonia game, which was being played at the same time. Five million people watched Wales beat Italy. The media measures success in terms of viewing figures and takes it as a sign of where its commitment should be. I think that the press will follow suit.
Mae gennym allu cenedlaethol unigryw i beri rhwyg. Ni fyddwn am ddewis rhwng pêl-droed a rygbi, er byddai’n dda gennyf petai ein tîm rygbi cenedlaethol mor llwyddiannus â’n tîm pêl-droed cenedlaethol. Nid oes dim yn debyg i lwyddiant am newid ffocws y cyfryngau. Gwyliodd dwywaith cymaint o bobl y gêm bêl-droed ddiwethaf yn erbyn yr Eidal ar BBC2 na’r nifer a wyliodd gêm Lloegr yn erbyn Macedonia, a oedd yn cael ei chwarae ar yr un pryd. Gwyliodd 5 miliwn o bobl Gymru yn curo’r Eidal. Mae’r cyfryngau’n mesur llwyddiant yn nhermau ffigurau gwylio ac maent yn derbyn hynny fel arwydd o beth y dylent ymrwymo iddo. Credaf y bydd y wasg yn eu dilyn.
Bydd y Gweinidog yn ymwybodol bod FIFA wedi newid ei feddwl a gwrthod rhoi’r hawl i Mark Hughes ddefnyddio’r rheol pedwar diwrnod i dynnu carfan Cymru ynghyd ar nos Sadwrn cyn gêm gystadleuol yn erbyn Azerbaijan. A wnaiff y Gweinidog ysgrifennu at FIFA i fynegi siom at y penderfyniad hwn, ac i sicrhau y caiff y rheol pedwar diwrnod ei gweithredu ym mhob un o gemau Cymru sy’n weddill yn rowndiau rhagbrofol Ewrop, beth bynnag fo dymuniadau clybiau prif gynghrair Lloegr?
The Minister will be aware that FIFA has changed its mind and refused Mark Hughes the right to invoke the four-day rule to bring the Welsh squad together on the Saturday before the competitive match against Azerbaijan. Will the Minister write to FIFA to express disappointment at this decision, and to ensure that the four-day rule is invoked before all remaining Wales games in the European qualifying rounds, regardless of the wishes of the English premier league clubs?
That is an important issue. The rationale for the decision is that that international window of time was designated for friendly matches, for which a country can only demand players 48 hours in advance. I am waiting to see whether an appeal will be launched, because it would not be right to act at this stage. However, I would consider the kind of action to which you referred if an appeal fails or is not launched. One wonders whether FIFA would have reacted similarly if the manager of Italy or Germany had made a similar request. It is important that the players’ clubs bear in mind that the success of all national teams within the United Kingdom is vital to the lifeblood of the game, and is important to players’ motivation. FIFA’s decision will lead to frustration on the part of players.
Mae hwnnw’n fater pwysig. Y rhesymeg y tu ôl i’r penderfyniad yw y pennwyd y cyfnod rhyngwladol hwnnw o amser ar gyfer gemau cyfeillgar, a dim ond 48 awr ymlaen llaw y gall gwlad alw ar chwaraewyr ar eu cyfer. Yr wyf yn aros i weld a fydd apêl, oherwydd ni fyddai’n briodol gweithredu ar yr adeg hon. Fodd bynnag, byddwn yn ystyried y math o gamau y cyfeiriasoch atynt pe byai apêl yn methu neu pe na byai’n cael ei chyflwyno. Tybiaf a fyddai FIFA wedi ymateb yn yr un modd pe bai rheolwr yr Eidal neu’r Almaen wedi gwneud cais tebyg. Mae’n bwysig bod y chwaraewyr yn cofio bod llwyddiant yr holl dimau cenedlaethol yn y Deyrnas Unedig yn hanfodol ar gyfer enaid y gêm, ac mae’n bwysig i gymhelliant y chwaraewyr. Bydd penderfyniad FIFA yn arwain at rwystredigaeth ar ran y chwaraewyr.
Do you agree that Assembly Members should set an example by taking part in sport? A recent encouraging development in Welsh football was the formation of the Assembly football team, whose debut game saw a creditable second-half fight back from a 2-0 half-time deficit to a 2-2 draw against the House of Commons team in a keenly contested and rugged encounter. Will you join me, as captain, in commending my team mates and the courageous Welsh Members of Parliament who defected to our side in the face of considerable hostility from their Westminster colleagues?
A gytunwch y dylai Aelodau’r Cynulliad osod esiampl drwy gymryd rhan mewn chwaraeon? Un o’r datblygiadau calonogol diweddar mewn pêl-droed yng Nghymru oedd ffurfio tîm pêl-droed y Cynulliad, y gwelwyd ymdrech gymeradwy ganddynt yn ail hanner eu gêm gyntaf o fod yn colli 2-0 ar ddiwedd yr hanner cyntaf i sgôr cyfartal o 2-2 yn erbyn tîm Tŷ’r Cyffredin mewn brwydr frwd a chaled. A ymunwch â mi, fel capten, i longyfarch aelodau’r tîm a’r Aelodau Seneddol dewr o Gymru a gefnogodd ein hochr ni yn wyneb cryn elyniaeth gan eu cyd-aelodau yn San Steffan?
I join in your congratulations and draw a parallel in terms of the size of the pool of players from which you had to choose. There is a parallel between the size of Wales and the size of Italy and the size of the Assembly and the House of Commons, which has a bigger pool of players. I thought for one terrible moment that you were going to ask me to referee next time.
Ymunaf â chi i longyfarch y tîm a thynnaf gymhariaeth o ran maint y gronfa o chwaraewyr yr oedd gennych i ddewis ohonynt. Mae cyfatebiaeth rhwng maint Cymru a maint yr Eidal a maint y Cynulliad a Thŷ’r Cyffredin, sydd â chronfa fwy o chwaraewyr. Yr oeddwn yn meddwl am un funud ofnadwy eich bod yn mynd i ofyn imi fod yn ddyfarnwr yn y gêm nesaf.
Nofio
Swimming
Will the Minister make a statement on the promotion of swimming in Wales? (OAQ19958)
A wnaiff y Gweinidog ddatganiad ar hybu nofio yng Nghymru? (OAQ19958)
What discussions has the Minister had regarding the provision of a 50m swimming pool in north Wales? (OAQ19957)
Pa drafodaethau y mae’r Gweinidog wedi eu cael ynghylch darparu pwll nofio 50m yng ngogledd Cymru? (OAQ19957)
Wales has a unique opportunity to promote swimming as a result of the new national 50m swimming pool facility that is being built in Swansea. The pool, which costs £10.5 million, is due to be completed early next year and will provide a world-class facility for elite performers, while also making extensive provision for students and the wider community. I have not had any discussions regarding the provision of a 50m pool in north Wales. Prior to the construction of the pool in Swansea, all local authorities were invited to bid for the development. Bids were received from Swansea, Cardiff and Newport only.
Mae gan Gymru gyfle unigryw i hybu nofio o ganlyniad i’r cyfleuster pwll nofio 50m cenedlaethol newydd sy’n cael ei adeiladu yn Abertawe. Disgwylir i’r pwll, sy’n costio £10.5 miliwn, gael ei gwblhau yn gynnar y flwyddyn nesaf a bydd yn darparu cyfleuster o’r radd flaenaf ar gyfer y perfformwyr gorau, tra hefyd yn gwneud darpariaeth helaeth ar gyfer myfyrwyr a’r gymuned ehangach. Nid wyf wedi cael unrhyw drafodaethau o ran darparu pwll 50m yn y Gogledd. Cyn adeiladu’r pwll yn Abertawe, gwahoddwyd pob awdurdod lleol i wneud cais am y datblygiad. Derbyniwyd ceisiadau gan Abertawe, Caerdydd a Chasnewydd yn unig.
We discussed ‘Well Being in Wales’ in the Health and Social Services Committee today. Does the Minister agree that swimming is a means by which we can introduce people to exercise and therefore help them to improve their health?
Trafodwyd ‘Lles yng Nghymru’ yn y Pwyllgor Iechyd a Gwasanaethau Cymdeithasol heddiw. A yw’r Gweinidog yn cytuno y gallwn ddefnyddio nofio i gyflwyno pobl i ymarfer corff ac felly eu helpu i wella eu hiechyd?
A dedicated band of swimmers in north Wales has to travel long distances to compete or train in a 50m pool. Will the Minister consider discussing the provision of a 50m pool in north Wales with the Sports Council for Wales? That would benefit the local economy and would motivate more people to take up swimming and to represent their country and would be good for north Wales and the country as a whole.
Mae’n rhaid i fand ymroddedig o nofwyr yn y Gogledd deithio pellteroedd mawr i gystadlu neu hyfforddi mewn pwll 50m. A wnaiff y Gweinidog ystyried trafod darparu pwll 50m yn y Gogledd â Chyngor Chwaraeon Cymru? Byddai hynny o fudd i’r economi lleol a byddai’n ysgogi rhagor o bobl i ddechrau nofio a chynrychioli eu gwlad a byddai o fudd i’r Gogledd a’r wlad yn gyffredinol.
I agree that swimming is important for health. It is a good all-round exercise, and is particularly accessible to people with disabilities who are not able to take up most other forms of exercise.
Cytunaf fod nofio’n bwysig i iechyd. Mae hefyd yn ymarfer corff da yn gyffredinol, ac mae’n arbennig o hygyrch i bobl ag anableddau nad ydynt yn gallu gwneud y rhan fwyaf o ffurfiau eraill ar ymarfer corff.
The sports council has identified the need for a 25m training pool in north Wales and will investigate a location soon. I will write to you with more details about this important matter when I have had a chance to talk to the council about its reasons for deciding on a 25m pool rather than a 50m one. I am aware that the council’s rationale is that a 25m pool is adequate for most training purposes and perfectly acceptable.
Mae’r cyngor chwaraeon wedi nodi’r angen i gael pwll hyfforddi 25m yn y Gogledd a byddant yn ymchwilio i leoliad yn fuan. Ysgrifennaf atoch gyda rhagor o fanylion ynghylch y mater pwysig hwn pan fyddaf wedi cael cyfle i siarad â’r cyngor am ei resymau dros benderfynu ar bwll 25m yn hytrach nag un 50m. Yr wyf yn ymwybodol mai rhesymeg y cyngor yw bod pwll 25m yn ddigonol ar gyfer y rhan fwyaf o ddibenion hyfforddi a’i fod yn hollol dderbyniol.
Dylid canmol nifer o awdurdodau lleol am eu hymdrechion i gynnal a chadw eu pyllau nofio, oherwydd gall fod yn anodd a chostus gwneud hynny. Mae nifer o unigolion a chyrff yn ymwneud â nofio, gan gynnwys ysgolion—ac, o ganlyniad, y Gweinidog dros Addysg a Dysgu Gydol Oes, noder—awdurdodau lleol, clybiau nofio, Cymdeithas Nofio Amatur Cymru a Chyngor Chwaraeon Cymru. Sut y gellir datblygu strategaeth effeithiol i hybu nofio pan fo cymaint o gyrff yn rhan o’r cynllunio a phan fo datblygiadau newydd—megis y rhai ym Mangor a Llandudno—yn dibynnu ar gymorthdaliadau annigonol a mympwyol Sportlot? Mae angen gweledigaeth a strategaeth glir gan y Cynulliad er mwyn cydlynu cynllunio.
Several local authorities should be congratulated on their efforts to maintain their swimming pools, as it can be a difficult and expensive task. Many individuals and organisations are involved in swimming, including schools—and, as a result, the Minister for Education and Lifelong Learning—local authorities, swimming clubs, the Welsh Amateur Swimming Association and the Sports Council for Wales. How can an effective strategy to promote swimming be developed when so many organisations are involved in the planning process and when new developments—such as those in Bangor and Llandudno—are dependent upon inadequate and arbitrary Sportlot grants? The Assembly must provide a clear vision and strategy to co-ordinate development.
I take issue with what you said, Gareth. Sportlot grants are not arbitrary. In the larger scheme of things, we may think that there is an inadequate amount of money to be distributed. That is because, unfortunately, income from the lottery—which is a UK issue—is falling because people are not going out to buy tickets. However, the decisions are not arbitrary; there are clear criteria to be met.
Anghytunaf â’r hyn a ddywedasoch, Gareth. Nid yw grantiau Sportlot yn fympwyol. O ran y darlun ehangach, gallwn gredu bod swm annigonol o arian i’w ddosbarthu. Mae hyn o ganlyniad i’r ffaith anffodus bod incwm o’r loteri—sy’n fater ar gyfer y DU—yn gostwng oherwydd nad yw pobl yn prynu tocynnau. Fodd bynnag, nid yw’r penderfyniadau yn fympwyol; mae angen cwrdd â meini prawf penodol.
I also disagree with your remarks about the approach to swimming. The Welsh Amateur Swimming Association is making excellent progress on a development strategy. It recognises clubs with a charter mark and has a clear path mapped out. It is working in partnership. For example, the Swansea pool development is a partnership between the University of Wales, Swansea, the City and County of Swansea Council and the sports council. That is not a case of too many bodies being involved: it is working in partnership to produce the goods.
Anghytunaf hefyd â’ch sylwadau ynghylch yr ymagwedd tuag at nofio. Mae Cymdeithas Nofio Amatur Cymru yn gwneud cynnydd ardderchog ar strategaeth ddatblygu. Mae’n cydnabod clybiau â nod siarter ac mae llwybr clir wedi ei nodi. Mae’n gweithio mewn partneriaeth. Er enghraifft, mae datblygiad pwll Abertawe yn waith i’r bartneriaeth rhwng Prifysgol Cymru, Abertawe, Cyngor Dinas a Sir Abertawe a’r cyngor chwaraeon. Nid yw’n achos o ormod o gyrff yn cymryd rhan: mae’n enghraifft o weithio mewn partneriaeth er mwyn cyrraedd y nod.
The Minister may be aware that Flintshire County Council has recently decided to provide a replacement swimming facility in Buckley, in my constituency. Do you agree that it would be a lost opportunity if we did not take advantage of that chance to ask the sports council to enter into discussions with Flintshire County Council and consider whether that new facility can embrace its ambitions by providing a 25m training pool in my constituency?
Efallai fod y Gweinidog yn ymwybodol bod Cyngor Sir y Fflint yn ddiweddar wedi penderfynu darparu cyfleuster nofio newydd ym Mwcle, yn fy etholaeth i. A gytunwch y byddai cyfle’n cael ei golli pe na baem yn manteisio ar y cyfle hwnnw i ofyn i’r cyngor chwaraeon gynnal trafodaethau â Chyngor Sir y Fflint ac ystyried pa un a all y cyfleuster newydd hwnnw fodloni ei ofynion drwy ddarparu pwll hyfforddi 25m yn fy etholaeth i?
I am happy to take that message to the sports council. I know that Flintshire County Council was originally refused a grant for the upgrade of Buckley swimming pool. There were issues about the location and about refurbishment of the existing pool versus a new location. The location of the new 25m pool must be discussed widely with local authorities in north Wales.
Yr wyf yn fodlon trosglwyddo’r neges honno i’r cyngor chwaraeon. Gwn y gwrthodwyd grant yn wreiddiol i Gyngor Sir y Fflint ar gyfer uwchraddio pwll nofio Bwcle. Yr oedd problemau o ran y lleoliad ac adnewyddu’r pwll presennol o gymharu â’r lleoliad newydd. Mae’n rhaid trafod lleoliad y pwll 25m newydd yn eang gydag awdurdodau lleol yn y Gogledd.
Swimming facilities in Cardiff have not recovered from the Empire Pool’s being demolished to make way for the Millennium Stadium. Talk of a possible replacement has come to nothing. There has been talk of a possible Cardiff bay sports village, but that project seems clouded in confusion. Will you outline progress on this project in your negotiations with Cardiff County Council? How will the lack of a 50m pool in Cardiff be rectified?
Nid oes digon o gyfleusterau nofio o hyd yng Nghaerdydd wedi dymchwel yr Empire Pool i wneud lle i Stadiwm y Mileniwm. Nid yw’r sôn am bwll newydd wedi dwyn ffrwyth. Bu sôn am bentref chwaraeon posibl ym mae Caerdydd, ond ymddengys bod llawer o gymhlethdod yn gysylltiedig â’r prosiect hwnnw. A wnewch chi amlinellu’r cynnydd ar y prosiect hwn yn eich negodiadau gyda Chyngor Sir Caerdydd? Sut y gellir unioni’r ffaith nad oes pwll 50m yng Nghaerdydd?
I was one of those who protested strongly against the demolition of the Empire Pool. It is regrettable that progress on this issue has not been swifter. It has been clouded by the issue of the sports village, which seemed always about to come to fruition. I believe that there has been some progress on that lately. The Sports Council for Wales is in negotiations with Cardiff County Council about one, possibly two, locations for a swimming pool and financial investment in the pool. However, it is uncertain whether that pool will be a 50m one.
Yr oeddwn i yn un o’r rhai a brotestiodd yn chwyrn yn erbyn dymchwel yr Empire Pool. Gresyn na ddigwyddodd cynnydd ar y mater hwn yn gyflymach. Mae yng nghysgod mater y pentref chwaraeon, a oedd bob amser yn ymddangos fel ei fod ar fin dwyn ffrwyth. Credaf y gwnaed rhywfaint o gynnydd ar hynny’n ddiweddar. Mae Cyngor Chwaraeon Cymru wrthi’n negodi gyda Chyngor Sir Caerdydd ynghylch un lleoliad, neu ddau o bosibl, ar gyfer pwll nofio a buddsoddiad ariannol yn y pwll. Fodd bynnag, mae’n ansicr a fydd y pwll hwnnw yn un 50m.
O ran pwysigrwydd datblygu cyfleoedd i gyfranogi mewn chwaraeon, a yw’r Gweinidog yn cytuno mai un o’r elfennau pwysicaf o ran nofio yw bod plant ysgolion cynradd ymhob rhan o Gymru, ac yn enwedig mewn ardaloedd gwledig, yn cael cyfle i ddysgu nofio,? Wrth benderfynu ar strategaeth ar byllau nofio, a wnaiff gyd-weithio â chynghorau sirol Cymru i sicrhau y diwellir gofynion?
In terms of the importance of developing opportunities to participate in sports, does the Minister agree that one of the most important factors, with regard to swimming, is that primary school children throughout Wales, and particularly in rural areas, have the opportunity to learn to swim? In deciding on a strategy on swimming pools, will she co-operate with county councils in Wales to ensure that demand is met?
The sports council has undertaken interesting research in the last few years into the location of swimming pools in Wales. We have a good spread of pools in most areas and the £5 million announced by Jane Davidson for school sports will assist with access to pools for primary school children. Local authorities are a key part of the jigsaw in terms of our vision for sport. They provide an important percentage of the total funding that goes toward sports development. Obviously, there are curriculum issues and transport issues. However, some excellent learn-to-swim schemes operate in schools in Wales, which is not just important for health, but for safety also.
Mae’r cyngor chwaraeon wedi ymgymryd â gwaith ymchwil diddorol yn ystod yr ychydig flynyddoedd diwethaf ar leoliad pyllau nofio yng Nghymru. Mae gennym byllau ar hyd a lled y rhan fwyaf o ardaloedd a bydd y £5 miliwn a gyhoeddwyd gan Jane Davidson ar gyfer chwaraeon mewn ysgolion yn cynorthwyo gyda’r cyfleoedd sydd ar gael i blant ysgolion cynradd ddefnyddio pyllau nofio. Mae awdurdodau lleol yn rhan allweddol o’r jig-so o ran ein gweledigaeth ar gyfer chwaraeon. Maent yn darparu canran bwysig o gyfanswm yr arian sy’n mynd tuag at ddatblygu chwaraeon. Yn amlwg, mae materion sy’n ymwneud â’r cwricwlwm ac â thrafnidiaeth. Fodd bynnag, mae gan rai ysgolion yng Nghymru gynlluniau dysgu nofio rhagorol, sy’n bwysig nid yn unig ar gyfer iechyd, ond ar gyfer diogelwch hefyd.
Cwestiynau i Ddirprwy Brif Weinidog Cymru a’r Gweinidog dros Ddatblygu Gwledig a Chymru Dramor
Questions to the Deputy First Minister and Minister for Rural Development and Wales Abroad
Ffermwyr Sir Ddinbych
Denbighshire Farmers
Will the Minister make a statement on the benefits that Farming Connect has brought to farmers in Denbighshire? (OAQ19935)
A wnaiff y Gweinidog ddatganiad ar y buddiannau sydd wedi dod i ffermwyr Sir Ddinbych yn sgil Cyswllt Ffermio? (OAQ19935)
Michael German The Deputy First Minister and Minister for Rural Development and Wales Abroad spoken in English p. 16
Michael German Y Dirprwy Brif Weinidog a’r Gweinidog dros Ddatblygu Gwledig a Chymru Dramor siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 16
Farming Connect was launched in September 2001 to provide a comprehensive package of support to assist farming families. In Denbighshire, 281 farmers have inquired about the services available under Farming Connect, 178 farm business development plans have been initiated and 87 business plans completed.
Lansiwyd Cyswllt Ffermio ym mis Medi 2001 i ddarparu pecyn cynhwysfawr o gymorth i gynorthwyo teuluoedd sy’n ffermio. Yn Sir Ddinbych, mae 281 o ffermwyr wedi holi ynghylch y gwasanaethau sydd ar gael o dan Cyswllt Ffermio, sefydlwyd 178 o gynlluniau datblygu busnes ar ffermydd a chwblhawyd 87 o gynlluniau busnes.
I welcome that news. Do you agree that, as farmers must now consider business plans and, in some cases, diversification, they could play a vital role in the development of food co-operatives to provide food for our communities? Is there not great potential for farmers to become influential partners in the establishment of food co-operatives? Will you urge that this be undertaken with the support of business grants and set-up grants such as those available under Farming Connect?
Croesawaf y newyddion hwnnw. A gytunwch, gan fod yn rhaid i ffermwyr bellach ystyried cynlluniau busnes ac, mewn rhai achosion, arallgyfeirio, y gallant chwarae rhan hanfodol yn y gwaith o ddatblygu cwmnïau bwyd cydweithredol i ddarparu bwyd ar gyfer ein cymunedau? Onid oes potensial ardderchog i ffermwyr ddod yn bartneriaid dylanwadol wrth sefydlu cwmnïau bwyd cydweithredol? A bwysleisiwch y dylid gwneud hyn gyda chymorth grantiau busnes a grantiau sefydlu busnesau fel y rhai sydd ar gael o dan Cyswllt Ffermio?
Funding is available to farmers who wish to co-operate and develop in this way. I am aware of the Rhyl food co-operative, which brings fresh food to people on deprived estates in your constituency. I commend the Countryside Alliance for its work in developing these food co-operatives. Our officials will visit Cumbria on 14 and 15 November to see the scheme in full, and I hope to report back on how I can further support these schemes across Wales.
Mae arian ar gael i ffermwyr sy’n dymuno cydweithredu a datblygu yn y ffordd hon. Yr wyf yn ymwybodol o gwmni bwyd cydweithredol y Rhyl, sy’n darparu bwyd ffres ar gyfer pobl ar ystadau difreintiedig yn eich etholaeth chi. Cymeradwyaf y Gynghrair Cefn Gwlad am ei gwaith wrth ddatblygu’r cwmnïau bwyd cydweithredol hyn. Bydd ein swyddogion yn ymweld â Chymbria ar 14 a 15 Tachwedd i weld y cynllun cyfan, a gobeithiaf adrodd yn ôl ar sut y gallaf gynorthwyo’r cynlluniau hyn ymhellach ledled Cymru.
Many farmers in Denbighshire have submitted plans for redeveloping redundant farm buildings on the advice of Farming Connect. Those who farm on the border between the areas governed by Denbighshire County Council and Conwy County Borough Council are experiencing problems, as the two authorities have different planning policies. What discussions have you had with those county councils about resolving this problem?
Ar ôl derbyn cyngor gan Cyswllt Ffermio, mae llawer o ffermwyr yn Sir Ddinbych wedi cyflwyno cynlluniau ar gyfer ailddatblygu adeiladau fferm gwag. Mae’r rhai hynny sy’n ffermio ar y ffin rhwng yr ardaloedd a reolir gan Gyngor Sir Dinbych a Chyngor Bwrdeistref Sirol Conwy yn cael anawsterau oherwydd bod gan y ddau awdurdod bolisïau cynllunio gwahanol. Pa drafodaethau a gawsoch gyda’r cynghorau sir hynny ynghylch datrys y broblem hon?
My colleague, Sue Essex, is responsible for planning matters. The advice given to farmers by Farming Connect facilitators and consultants on issues such as planning and highways is crucial. I have asked that all consultants be given adequate and appropriate training on local authorities’ planning guidance on farms and surrounding developments. I hope that a new leaflet on planning guidance for farmers, which is currently being prepared, will help people to understand the process. Planning can be a barrier to creating new enterprises on farms. However, Farming Connect can be of assistance, and I have put processes in train to that end.
Fy nghyd-Weinidog, Sue Essex, sy’n gyfrifol am faterion cynllunio. Mae’r cyngor a roddir i ffermwyr drwy hwyluswyr ac ymgynghorwyr Cyswllt Ffermio ar faterion fel cynllunio a phriffyrdd yn hanfodol. Yr wyf wedi gofyn am i’r holl ymgynghorwyr gael hyfforddiant digonol a phriodol ar ganllawiau cynllunio awdurdodau lleol ar ffermydd a datblygiadau cyfagos. Gobeithio y bydd taflen newydd ar ganllawiau cynllunio i ffermwyr, sy’n cael ei pharatoi ar hyn o bryd, yn helpu pobl i ddeall y broses. Gall cynllunio fod yn rhwystr i greu mentrau newydd ar ffermydd. Fodd bynnag, gall Cyswllt Ffermio fod o gymorth, ac yr wyf wedi rhoi prosesau ar waith i’r perwyl hwnnw.
Mewnforion Cig Anghyfreithlon
Illegal Meat Imports
What steps has the Minister taken to control illegal meat imports? (OAQ19925)
Pa gamau y mae’r Gweinidog wedi eu cymryd i reoli mewnforion cig anghyfreithlon? (OAQ19925)
This is not a devolved function, as you know, Glyn. The UK Government is making progress on the components of the action plan, which was announced in March, and the Welsh Assembly Government is fully engaged in that work. I will shortly be launching a bilingual version of the ‘Don’t Bring Back More Than You Bargained For!’ leaflet for travellers. Copies will be sent to all travel agents in Wales, so that they can be distributed to travellers before they leave the country.
Nid yw hon yn swyddogaeth a ddatganolwyd, fel y gwyddoch, Glyn. Mae Llywodraeth y DU yn gwneud cynnydd ar gynnwys y cynllun gweithredu, a gyhoeddwyd ym mis Mawrth, ac mae Llywodraeth Cynulliad Cymru yn cymryd rhan lawn yn y gwaith hwnnw. Cyn hir byddaf yn lansio fersiwn ddwyieithog o’r daflen ‘Don’t Bring Back More Than You Bargained For!’ ar gyfer teithwyr. Anfonir copïau at bob asiantaeth deithio yng Nghymru, er mwyn eu dosbarthu i deithwyr cyn iddynt adael y wlad.
I ask this question to you as a contributor to the UK Government’s stance on this. I fully support your action to raise awareness; no one can argue with that. However, what action are you calling for in terms of checking illegal meat imports and controlling the situation, not just raising awareness?
Gofynnaf y cwestiwn hwn i chi fel un sy’n cyfrannu at sefyllfa Llywodraeth y DU ar hyn. Cefnogaf yn llwyr eich gweithredoedd i godi ymwybyddiaeth; ni all unrhyw un anghytuno â hynny. Fodd bynnag, pa gamau gweithredu yr ydych chi am eu gweld o ran gwirio mewnforion cig anghyfreithlon a rheoli’r sefyllfa, yn hytrach na dim ond codi ymwybyddiaeth?
We take this issue seriously in Wales. HM Customs and Excise has confirmed that no meat, fish or dairy products entered Welsh ports last year from outside the European Union. The majority of products that entered Wales from within the European Union came from Ireland. I met the Irish Minister for Agriculture and Food, Joe Walsh, to emphasise the need for security measures for products that are transited through Ireland. I received a satisfactory response from him. Customs and Excise has also confirmed that it only made two seizures in Wales this year, both of which were meat in passengers’ luggage at Cardiff international airport. I will continue to press the UK Government on the matter; I understand that it has allocated £3 million of new money this year, £5 million next year and £10 million the following year, to deal with illegal imports.
Cymerwn y mater hwn o ddifrif yng Nghymru. Mae Tollau Tramor a Chartref EM wedi cadarnhau na ddaeth unrhyw gig, pysgod na chynnyrch llaeth drwy borthladdoedd Cymru y llynedd o’r tu allan i’r Undeb Ewropeaidd. Daeth y rhan fwyaf o’r cynnyrch a ddaeth i Gymru o’r tu fewn i’r Undeb Ewropeaidd o Iwerddon. Cyfarfûm â’r Gweinidog yn Iwerddon sy’n gyfrifol am amaethyddiaeth a bwyd, Joe Walsh, i bwysleisio’r angen am fesurau diogelwch ar gyfer cynnyrch a gludir drwy Iwerddon. Cefais ymateb boddhaol ganddo. Mae Tollau Tramor a Chartref hefyd wedi cadarnhau mai dim ond dau atafaeliad a wnaeth yng Nghymru eleni, ac yr oedd y ddau yn achos o ganfod cig ym magiau teithwyr ym maes awyr rhyngwladol Caerdydd. Byddaf yn parhau i roi pwysau ar Lywodraeth y DU ar y mater; deallaf ei bod wedi dyrannu £3 miliwn o arian newydd eleni, £5 miliwn ar gyfer y flwyddyn nesaf a £10 miliwn ar gyfer y flwyddyn ganlynol, i ymdrin â mewnforion anghyfreithlon.
Do you agree that the publication of an annual report by the UK Government on the action taken to prevent the introduction of diseases into Wales and England will help stem the tide of illegal meat imports and reduce the chance of future outbreaks of foot and mouth disease, which cause such devastation?
A gytunwch y bydd y ffaith bod Llywodraeth y DU am gyhoeddi adroddiad blynyddol ar y camau a gymerwyd i atal cyflwyno afiechydon i Gymru a Lloegr yn helpu i rwystro’r don o fewnforion cig anghyfreithlon ac i ostwng y posibilrwydd o achosion o glwy’r traed a’r genau yn y dyfodol, sy’n arwain at gymaint o ddifrod?
I will issue a written statement later today on the response to the foot and mouth disease inquiries. The 2002-03 action plan, which was launched by the UK Government last March, aims to strengthen local authorities’ enforcement powers and improve intelligence gathering. The new money that I have mentioned will help to minimise the risks associated with meat that is illegally or erroneously imported into the country. A study is currently being undertaken into the risks of illegally imported meat, the results of which should be available towards the end of the year.
Byddaf yn cyhoeddi datganiad ysgrifenedig yn ddiweddarach heddiw ar yr ymateb i’r ymchwiliadau i glwy’r traed a’r genau. Nod cynllun gweithredu 2002-03, a lansiwyd gan Lywodraeth y DU ddiwedd mis Mawrth, yw cryfhau pwerau gorfodi awdurdodau lleol a gwella’r broses o gasglu gwybodaeth. Bydd yr arian newydd y soniais amdano yn helpu i leihau’r risgiau sy’n gysylltiedig â chig a gaiff ei fewnforio i’r wlad yn anghyfreithlon neu ar gam. Cynhelir astudiaeth ar hyn o bryd i risgiau mewnforion cig anghyfreithlon, a dylai’r canlyniadau fod ar gael tua diwedd y flwyddyn.
Cytunaf â Glyn Davies fod angen archwilio cig. A oes gennych strategaeth i sicrhau nad yw cig anghyfreithlon yn cyrraedd Cymru, neu ai ar hap a damwain y caiff mewnforion o’r fath eu darganfod?
I agree with Glyn Davies that meat must be checked. Do you have a strategy to ensure that illegal meat does not reach Wales, or is it by accident that such imports are detected?
As I have said, this is not a devolved function and I do not have any powers in this regard. However, I am anxious to use the Welsh Assembly Government’s engagement to ensure that we take all action possible to minimise the risk from meat that is illegally imported into this country. Since January, it is illegal to import any meat into the United Kingdom from outside the European Union. That significant change was brought about with the European Commission’s consent. I have already outlined the action that will be taken in ports. I have also raised this issue with the airlines that fly out of Wales and with Cardiff international airport. I will also deal with travel agents, as I said earlier.
Fel y dywedais, nid yw hon yn swyddogaeth a ddatganolwyd ac nid oes gennyf unrhyw bwerau yn hyn o beth. Fodd bynnag, yr wyf yn awyddus i ddefnyddio cysylltiad Llywodraeth Cynulliad Cymru i sicrhau ein bod yn cymryd pob cam posibl i leihau’r risg o gig a gaiff ei fewnforio’n anghyfreithlon i’r wlad hon. Ers mis Ionawr, mae’n anghyfreithlon mewnforio unrhyw gig i mewn i’r Deyrnas Unedig o’r tu allan i’r Undeb Ewropeaidd. Cyflwynwyd y newid sylweddol hwnnw gyda chaniatâd y Comisiwn Ewropeaidd. Yr wyf eisoes wedi amlinellu’r camau a gymerir mewn porthladdoedd. Yr wyf hefyd wedi codi’r mater hwn gyda’r cwmnïau awyrennau sy’n hedfan o Gymru a chyda maes awyr rhyngwladol Caerdydd. Byddaf hefyd yn ymdrin ag asiantaethau teithio, fel y soniais yn gynharach.
I understand that the procurement of illegal meat imports and stopping it at the ports is not a devolved matter. However, as a devolved institution with its own procurement policies, could we not introduce a policy on not bringing in meat, particularly with spinal cord attached to it? We must stop meat coming in by means of an intervention. Could we not issue guidelines in our procurement policy that no such meat should be brought into Wales?
Deallaf nad yw caffael mewnforion cig anghyfreithlon a’i atal yn y porthladdoedd yn fater a ddatganolwyd. Fodd bynnag, fel sefydliad datganoledig gyda’i bolisïau caffael ei hun, oni allem gyflwyno polisi ar wrthod derbyn cig, yn enwedig cig â llinyn y cefn ynddo? Mae’n rhaid inni rwystro cig rhag cael ei fewnforio drwy ymyriad. Oni allem gyhoeddi canllawiau fel rhan o’n polisi caffael na ddylid dod ag unrhyw gig o’r fath i Gymru?
You cannot procure illegal meat. That would be inappropriate. Policing the meat entering this country is not a matter for the National Assembly. It is a matter for HM Customs and Excise. I understand that recommendations will be made in light of the response to the foot and mouth inquiries, which will be issued by the Government later this afternoon.
Ni allwch gaffael cig anghyfreithlon. Byddai hynny’n amhriodol. Nid mater i’r Cynulliad Cenedlaethol yw rheoli’r cig a ddaw i’r wlad hon. Mater i Dollau Tramor a Chartref EM yw hyn. Deallaf y gwneir argymhellion yn sgîl yr ymateb i ymchwiliadau clwy’r traed a’r genau, a gyhoeddir gan y Llywodraeth yn ddiweddarach y prynhawn yma.
Cynllun Cyswllt Ffermio
Farming Connect Scheme
A wnaiff y Gweinidog ddatganiad ar y cynllun Cyswllt Ffermio? (OAQ20011)
Will the Minister make a statement on the Farming Connect scheme? (OAQ20011)
Farming Connect was launched in September 2001 to provide a comprehensive package of support to assist farming families. It has proved to be a popular initiative. By the end of September 2002, the Farming Connect service centre had received 4,757 inquiries about the service, with 4,635 requests for the key element of the initiative, namely the farm business development plan.
Lansiwyd Cyswllt Ffermio ym Medi 2001 i ddarparu pecyn cynhwysfawr o gymorth i gynorthwyo teuluoedd sy’n ffermio. Mae’n fenter boblogaidd erbyn hyn. Erbyn diwedd Medi 2002, yr oedd canolfan gwasanaeth Cyswllt Ffermio wedi derbyn 4,757 o ymholiadau am y gwasanaeth, gyda 4,635 o geisiadau am elfen allweddol y fenter, sef y cynllun datblygu busnesau ffermio.
Mae capasiti prosesu yn rhan bwysig o Cyswllt Ffermio. A ydych yn ymwybodol mai dim ond un lladd-dy sydd yn lladd gwartheg yn yr hen Sir Ddyfed, a dim ond caniatâd i ladd 20 o wartheg yr wythnos sydd ganddo? Er hyn, mae gan y cynllun dros 30 mis ddau ladd-dy yn y Gorllewin. Nid oes capasiti, felly, i ladd gwartheg ffermwyr organig a thraddodiadol er mwyn eu gwerthu i gigyddion lleol ac mewn marchnadoedd ffermwyr. Mae hyn yn gweithio’n erbyn eich strategaeth i ychwanegu gwerth yn lleol. Pa gynlluniau y gallwch eu hyrwyddo i gynyddu’r capasiti lladd gwartheg yn y Gorllewin?
Processing capacity is an important part of Farming Connect. Are you aware that there is only one cattle slaughterhouse in the former county of Dyfed, and that it is only permitted to slaughter 20 cattle a week? However, the over-30-months scheme uses two slaughterhouses in west Wales. There is not enough capacity, therefore, to slaughter the cattle reared by organic and traditional farmers and, as a result, they are unable to supply local butchers and farmers’ markets. That runs counter to your strategy to add value locally. What schemes can you promote to increase slaughtering capacity in west Wales?
Significant funding is available for meat processing. I would encourage any group of farmers or companies to come forward with proposals, and they will be considered in light of the business plan. If it can be demonstrated that the proposals would result in a viable concern, with Government support, I would be only too pleased to recommend that they get it.
Mae swm sylweddol o arian ar gael ar gyfer prosesu cig. Byddwn yn annog unrhyw grŵp o ffermwyr neu gwmnïau i gyflwyno cynigion, a chânt eu hystyried yng ngoleuni’r cynllun busnes. Os gellir dangos y byddai’r cynigion yn arwain at fusnes hyfyw, gyda chymorth y Llywodraeth, byddwn yn fwy na pharod i argymell y dylent gael yr arian hwnnw.
Farming Connect has preferential intervention rates for farmers under the age of 40. Have your officials carried out a breakdown of statistics to discover how many younger farmers have applied to Farming Connect? If that has not been done, could you ensure that it is done so that, if certain younger farmers are not taking advantage of those preferential rates, we can target the initiave at them?
Mae Cyswllt Ffermio yn cynnig cyfraddau ymyrraeth gwell i ffermwyr o dan 40 oed. A yw eich swyddogion wedi dadansoddi’r ystadegau i ganfod faint o ffermwyr iau sydd wedi gwneud cais i Cyswllt Ffermio? Os na wnaethpwyd hynny, a allech chi sicrhau y’i gwneir er mwyn inni allu targedu’r fenter at unrhyw ffermwyr iau nad ydynt yn manteisio ar y cyfraddau gwell hynny?
I cannot give you precise figures. However, the anecdotal evidence—and I met the chief executive of Wales Young Farmers’ Clubs yesterday—is that young farmers are taking up this opportunity in increasing numbers and know that they have the opportunity of preferential treatment. We must try to ensure an age balance in our rural communities. I made an announcement earlier about support for young entrepreneurs in rural areas. That will assist in this, as will the additional support through Farming Connect. I hope that the age balance study that will be issued shortly will lead to recommendations on further actions that we can take to ensure that we create and maintain business opportunities for young people in rural areas.
Ni allaf ddarparu’r union ffigurau ichi. Fodd bynnag, dengys y dystiolaeth anecdotaidd—a chyfarfûm â phrif weithredwr Clybiau Ffermwyr Ifanc Cymru ddoe—fod nifer gynyddol o ffermwyr ifanc yn achub ar y cyfle hwn gan wybod bod ganddynt gyfle i gael triniaeth arbennig. Rhaid inni geisio sicrhau cydbwysedd oedran yn ein cymunedau gwledig. Gwneuthum gyhoeddiad yn gynharach am gymorth i entrepreneuriaid ifanc mewn ardaloedd gwledig. Bydd hynny o gymorth yn hyn o beth, felly hefyd y cymorth ychwanegol drwy Cyswllt Ffermio. Gobeithiaf y bydd yr astudiaeth o gydbwysedd oedran a gyhoeddir yn fuan yn arwain at argymhellion ar gyfer camau gweithredu pellach y gallwn eu cymryd i sicrhau ein bod yn creu ac yn cynnal cyfleoedd busnes i bobl ifanc mewn ardaloedd gwledig.
I congratulate you, Minister, on a scheme that has done so much for the consultancy industry. How much money has been pumped into the consultancy industry and spent on consultants as a result of this scheme? Has it ever occurred to you to emulate the success of this scheme by setting up something similar that could help farmers? Perhaps you could call it consultancy connect.
Hoffwn eich llongyfarch, Weinidog, ar gynllun sydd wedi bod yn fuddiol iawn i’r diwydiant ymgynghori. Faint o arian sydd wedi cael ei arllwys i mewn i’r diwydiant hwnnw ac a wariwyd ar ymgynghorwyr o ganlyniad i’r cynllun hwn? A feddylioch erioed y gellid efelychu llwyddiant y cynllun hwn drwy sefydlu cynllun tebyg a allai helpu ffermwyr? Efallai y gallech ei alw’n gyswllt ymgynghori.
I take that as an expression of support for Farming Connect. If it is not, and the Conservatives do not support Farming Connect, they ought to stand up and say so. If the Conservatives think that the provision of advice to people should not be developed by using consultants—and I thought that the Conservatives were in favour of using the private sector—and that we should not provide support in that way, then clearly they do not believe in providing support for farmers. If you provide advice, you do it through the private sector, by means of consultants. I do not understand the logic of the question.
Cymeraf hynny fel datganiad o gefnogaeth i Cyswllt Ffermio. Os nad hynny mohono, ac os nad yw’r Ceidwadwyr yn cefnogi Cyswllt Ffermio, dylent godi ar eu traed a datgan hynny. Os cred y Ceidwadwyr na ddylid datblygu’r cyngor a ddarperir i bobl drwy ddefnyddio ymgynghorwyr—ac yr oeddwn o’r farn bod y Ceidwadwyr o blaid defnyddio’r sector preifat—ac na ddylem ddarparu cymorth yn y fath fodd, yna yn amlwg ni chredant y dylid darparu cymorth i ffermwyr. Os darparwch gyngor, fe wnewch hynny drwy’r sector preifat, drwy gyfrwng ymgynghorwyr. Nid wyf yn deall rhesymeg y cwestiwn.
Y Sector Organig
The Organic Sector
What action is the Minister taking to support the organic sector in Wales? (OAQ20013)
Pa gamau y mae’r Gweinidog yn eu cymryd i noddi’r sector organig yng Nghymru? (OAQ20013)
I was pleased to announce in last month’s budget statement that I would be introducing new payments for organic stewardship. Officials are currently preparing the detail of the new scheme, including the level at which payment rates will be set, although I have previously stated that it will be no less than that set in England. The scheme will open later next year, subject to the approval of the European Commission. I will make a more detailed announcement in due course. The new scheme is in addition to continuing financial support for organic conversion through the organic farming scheme and free organic advice from Organic Centre Wales in Aberystwyth.
Yr oeddwn yn falch o gyhoeddi yn y datganiad ar y gyllideb fis diwethaf y byddwn yn cyflwyno taliadau newydd ar gyfer stiwardiaeth organig. Mae swyddogion wrthi ar hyn o bryd yn paratoi manylion y cynllun newydd, gan gynnwys lefel y cyfraddau talu, er imi ddatgan eisoes na fydd yn is na’r lefel a bennwyd yn Lloegr. Bydd y cynllun yn agor yn ddiweddarach y flwyddyn nesaf, yn amodol ar gymeradwyaeth y Comisiwn Ewropeaidd. Gwnaf gyhoeddiad manylach maes o law. Mae’r cynllun newydd yn ychwanegol at gymorth ariannol parhaus ar gyfer addasu organig drwy’r cynllun ffermio organig a chyngor organig am ddim gan Ganolfan Organig Cymru, Aberystwyth.
I welcome the Assembly Government’s support for the organic sector in Wales. What more can be done to persuade supermarkets to source more organic products from Welsh producers?
Croesawaf gefnogaeth Llywodraeth y Cynulliad i’r sector organig yng Nghymru. Beth yn rhagor y gellir ei wneud i ddarbwyllo archfarchnadoedd i archebu mwy o gynnyrch organig gan gynhyrchwyr o Gymru?
The number of organic products being sold in supermarkets is increasing. Unfortunately, much of those products are sourced from outside the UK. We must try to break into that market by establishing proper support mechanisms for the supply chain so that we can compete.
Mae nifer y cynnyrch organig a werthir mewn archfarchnadoedd yn cynyddu. Yn anffodus, daw llawer o’r cynnyrch hynny o’r tu allan i’r DU. Rhaid inni geisio cael troedle yn y farchnad honno drwy sefydlu dulliau cymorth priodol o fewn y gadwyn gyflenwi er mwyn inni allu cystadlu.
Issues of the regularity of organic produce and timeliness in its delivery require more co-operative action. I was pleased to meet representatives of Graig Farm Organics from Powys this week. It is a leading example of a company promoting co-operative ventures among organic farmers and delivering to key customers. We need to encourage such ventures, which I am prepared to support whenever possible.
Mae angen gweithredu mewn ffordd fwy cydweithredol ar faterion rheoleidd-dra cynnyrch organig a’i ddarparu ar adeg briodol. Yr oeddwn yn falch o gyfarfod â chynrychiolwyr Graig Farm Organics o Bowys yr wythnos hon. Mae’n enghraifft flaenllaw o gwmni sy’n hyrwyddo mentrau cydweithredol ymhlith ffermwyr organig gan ddarparu cynnyrch i gwsmeriaid allweddol. Mae angen inni annog mentrau o’r fath, yr wyf yn barod i’w cefnogi pryd bynnag y bo’n bosibl.
You may be aware that two Welsh cheesemakers were recently named as joint winners of an organic cheese award. As the Minister responsible for Wales abroad, will you consider marketing these excellent cheeses in your new Assembly embassies once they have been opened?
Efallai y byddwch yn ymwybodol i ddau wneuthurwr caws o Gymru gael eu henwi yn ddiweddar fel cyd-enillwyr gwobr caws organig. Fel y Gweinidog sy’n gyfrifol am Gymru dramor, a ystyriwch farchnata’r cawsiau ardderchog hyn yn llysgenadaethau newydd y Cynulliad unwaith y cânt eu hagor?
The interesting point behind the snide comment was that companies in Wales currently do not have the capacity to market themselves widely abroad. Most companies in Wales are too small to market themselves without support. That is why the cheese manufacturers of Wales have come together and are working with distributors throughout the European Union and beyond. Cheese is one of Wales’s great products and its manufacture should be greatly encouraged. South Caernarfon Creameries has done a great deal to promote cheese exports. However, we must also support smaller manufacturers by helping them to break into the export market in giving them the opportunity to work with other companies. The Cheesemakers Association Wales was established with that in mind.
Y pwynt diddorol y tu ôl i’r sylw coeglyd oedd nad oes gan gwmnïau yng Nghymru y gallu i farchnata eu hunain yn eang dramor ar hyn o bryd. Mae’r rhan fwyaf o gwmnïau yng Nghymru yn rhy fach i farchnata eu hunain heb gymorth. Dyna pam bod gweithgynhyrchwyr caws Cymru wedi dod ynghyd gan gydweithio gyda dosbarthwyr ledled yr Undeb Ewropeaidd a thu hwnt. Mae caws yn un o gynhyrchion gorau Cymru a dylid annog ei weithgynhyrchu. Bu Hufenfa De Arfon yn weithgar iawn wrth hyrwyddo allforion caws. Fodd bynnag, rhaid inni hefyd gefnogi gweithgynhyrchwyr llai drwy eu helpu i ymuno â’r farchnad allforio drwy roi’r cyfle iddynt gydweithio â chwmnïau eraill. Dyna un o’r rhesymau dros sefydlu Cymdeithas Gwneuthurwyr Caws Cymru.
Cwmni Gwin Cydweithredol
Welsh Wine Co-operative
Have any plans been developed to establish a Welsh wine co-operative? (OAQ20030)
A oes cynlluniau wedi eu datblygu i sefydlu cwmni gwin cydweithredol yng Nghymru? (OAQ20030)
The Welsh Assembly Government will consider any applications for support under the marketing development scheme from producer groups that wish to carry out feasibility studies. A Welsh Wine Association has been established under the auspices of the Welsh Development Agency’s speciality foods programme. Members of that association must assess their options for adopting a co-operative structure.
Bydd Llywodraeth Cynulliad Cymru yn ystyried unrhyw geisiadau am gymorth o dan y cynllun datblygu marchnata gan grwpiau cynhyrchu sydd am gynnal astudiaethau dichonoldeb. Sefydlwyd Cymdeithas Gwin Cymru o dan raglen bwydydd arbenigol Awdurdod Datblygu Cymru. Rhaid i aelodau’r gymdeithas honno asesu eu hopsiynau ar gyfer mabwysiadu sdrwythur cydweithredol.
Thank you, Minister, for that encouraging answer. Do you agree that it is a great pity that Wales no longer has a winery? It means that all the grapes produced here go to England for processing. If we had a winery at the centre of a co-operative, we could have an estate-produced brand. That would encourage us to aspire to produce wine of a much higher quality.
Diolch, Weinidog, am yr ateb calonogol hwnnw. A gytunwch ei bod yn siom fawr nad oes gan Gymru windy bellach? Golyga hynny fod yr holl rawnwin a gynhyrchir yma yn mynd i Loegr i’w prosesu. Pe bai gennym windy yn ganolbwynt i gwmni cydweithredol, gallem sefydlu brand a gynhyrchir ar ystad. Byddai hynny’n ein hannog i anelu at gynhyrchu gwin o ansawdd llawer uwch.
I am not certain about the concept of an estate-produced wine. However, nearly all Welsh winemakers use a company based in England to blend wine. The challenge for us is to develop a fully Welsh wine sector. I am sure that you will join me in that challenge.
Nid wyf yn siŵr am y cysyniad o win a gynhyrchir ar ystad. Fodd bynnag, mae ymron pob gwneuthurwr gwin yng Nghymru yn defnyddio cwmni sydd wedi ei leoli yn Lloegr i gymysgu gwin. Yr her sy’n ein hwynebu yw datblygu sector gwin sy’n gwbl Gymreig. Yr wyf yn siŵr yr ymunwch â mi yn yr her honno.
I agree that establishing a co-operative for Welsh wine that would promote and support the Taste of Wales initiative would be an excellent idea. Do you agree that establishing a similar group to promote and support Welsh beer would also be desirable?
Cytunaf y byddai sefydlu cwmni cydweithredol ar gyfer gwin Cymreig a fyddai’n hyrwyddo ac yn cefnogi’r fenter Blas ar Gymru yn syniad ardderchog. A gytunwch y byddai sefydlu grŵp tebyg i hyrwyddo a chefnogi cwrw Cymreig hefyd yn ddymunol?
Y Rheol 20 Diwrnod
20-day Rule
Will the Minister make a statement on the scientific evidence to continue the 20-day rule? (OAQ20024) [R]
A wnaiff y Gweinidog ddatganiad ar y dystiolaeth wyddonol i barhau â’r rheol 20 niwrnod? (OAQ20024) [R]
The current biosecurity and movement regime is based on veterinary and scientific advice. The 20-day standstill is currently considered to be the best way of controlling and protecting against the rapid spread of undetected disease. The conclusions were endorsed by the Royal Society and Lessons Learned inquiries, which recommended that movement restrictions should remain in place until the results of detailed cost-benefit analysis and disease risk assessments are available.
Mae’r drefn bioddiogelwch a symud gyfredol yn seiliedig ar gyngor milfeddygol a gwyddonol. Ar hyn o bryd, ystyrir mai’r rheol 20 diwrnod yw’r ffordd orau o reoli ac amddiffyn yn erbyn lledaeniad cyflym clefydau heb eu canfod. Cymeradwywyd y casgliadau gan un o ymchwiliadau’r Gymdeithas Frenhinol ac ymchwiliad y Gwersi a Ddysgwyd, a argymhellodd y dylai’r cyfyngiadau ar symud barhau hyd nes bod canlyniadau’r dadansoddiad cost a budd a’r asesiadau risgiau o glefydau ar gael.
It is a shame that you do not understand that the scientific evidence on continuing the 20-day rule is flawed. The rule is causing economic problems within the industry, heightened by the Assembly’s failure to pay the sheep annual premium. You promised in Committee that payments, from this year, would be paid in one block, starting on 15 October. Farmers in England, Scotland and Northern Ireland have received their payments. Not paying this premium is causing severe hardship in the industry. Will you give an assurance that you will not make a similar excuse to the one made by one of your spokespersons in today’s Daily Post, namely that there has been no delay and that a payment window means farmers in Wales could be paid anytime up to 31 March? You know that that is incorrect. Will you, therefore, correct it and ensure that Welsh farmers are paid immediately?
Mae’n drueni nad ydych yn deall bod y dystiolaeth wyddonol ar barhau â’r rheol 20 diwrnod yn ddiffygiol. Mae’r rheol yn achosi problemau economaidd o fewn y diwydiant, a waethygir gan fethiant y Cynulliad i dalu’r premiwm blynyddol defaid. Fe addawoch yng nghyfarfodydd y Pwyllgor y byddai taliadau, o eleni ymlaen, yn cael eu talu mewn un bloc, gan ddechrau ar 15 Hydref. Mae ffermwyr yn Lloegr, yr Alban a Gogledd Iwerddon wedi derbyn eu taliadau. Mae peidio â thalu’r premiwm hwn yn achosi caledi difrifol yn y diwydiant. A roddwch sicrwydd na fyddwch yn gwneud esgus tebyg i’r un a wnaethpwyd gan un o’ch llefarwyr yn y Daily Post heddiw, sef na fu unrhyw oedi a bod cyfnod talu yn golygu y gellid talu ffermwyr yng Nghymru ar unrhyw adeg hyd at 31 Mawrth? Gwyddoch nad yw hynny’n wir. Felly, a wnewch chi unioni’r sefyllfa a sicrhau y telir ffermwyr yng Nghymru ar unwaith?
I am afraid that I must correct you. The statement made in the Daily Post is not incorrect. The payment window for sheep annual premium payments is the period from 16 October 2002 to 31 March 2003. That is a fact. We have invested £16 million in a new computer system, work on which has been ongoing since 1998. The work is close to conclusion, but the transition from one system to another is causing a delay in payments. However, I am assured that all payments, except for the less favoured area payments, will be made this month. As you will appreciate, Peter, payments in the past have been made in three parts at different times during the payment window. This year, it will be paid as one lump sum. The LFA payment will follow. While it is the case that we are awaiting final verification and conclusion of work on the computer system—I am sure you would not want the system to cause us to have to repay money to Europe—payments will be made and farmers will be better off this year because they will receive a lump sum.
Yn anffodus, rhaid imi eich cywiro. Nid yw’r datganiad a wnaed yn y Daily Post yn anghywir. Mae’r cyfnod talu ar gyfer taliadau premiwm blynyddol defaid yn rhedeg o 16 Hydref 2002 hyd at 31 Mawrth 2003. Mae hynny’n ffaith. Buddsoddwyd £16 miliwn gennym mewn system gyfrifiadurol newydd, y bu gwaith yn mynd rhagddo arni ers 1998. Mae’r gwaith yn tynnu at y terfyn, ond mae’r broses o drosglwyddo o un system i un arall yn achosi oedi wrth dalu. Fodd bynnag, cefais sicrwydd y gwneir yr holl daliadau, ac eithrio taliadau’r ardaloedd llai ffafriol, y mis hwn. Fel y byddwch yn gwerthfawrogi, Peter, gwnaed taliadau yn y gorffennol mewn tair rhan ar wahanol adegau yn ystod y cyfnod talu. Eleni, fe’i telir fel un cyfandaliad. Bydd y taliadau ardaloedd llai ffafriol yn dilyn. Er ein bod yn dal i aros am ddilysiad terfynol a diwedd y gwaith ar y system gyfrifiadurol—yr wyf yn siŵr na fyddech am i’r system achosi inni orfod ad-dalu arian i Ewrop—gwneir taliadau a bydd ffermwyr yn well eu byd eleni gan y byddant yn derbyn cyfandaliad.
Dafydd Elis-Thomas The Presiding Officer spoken in English p. 25
Dafydd Elis-Thomas Y Llywydd siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 25
Order. You have asked one supplementary question, and that is all you are permitted.
Trefn. Yr ydych wedi gofyn un cwestiwn atodol, a dyna’r cyfan a ganiateir ichi.
I welcome your comments on the sheep annual premium scheme. Do you agree that, if the Assembly had full powers over animal health issues, we would have been able to follow the Scottish example and implement a less restrictive regime in terms of livestock trading?
Croesawaf eich sylwadau ar y cynllun premiwm blynyddol defaid. A gytunwch, pe byddai gan y Cynulliad bwerau llawn dros faterion yn ymwneud ag iechyd anifeiliaid, y byddem wedi gallu dilyn enghraifft yr Alban a gweithredu trefn llai cyfyngol yn nhermau masnachu da byw?
The Scottish Parliament’s powers enabled it to move in a different direction from England and Wales. Seeking full powers over animal health issues would have to be a decision of the National Assembly. It is important that we seek the devolution of animal health powers, and I am pleased that efforts to this end are ongoing.
Galluogodd pwerau Senedd yr Alban iddi symud i wahanol gyfeiriad o’i chymharu â Chymru a Lloegr. Byddai’n rhaid i’r Cynulliad Cenedlaethol benderfynu a ydyw am wneud cais am bwerau llawn dros faterion yn ymwneud ag iechyd anifeiliaid. Mae’n bwysig inni geisio datganoli pwerau sy’n ymwneud ag iechyd anifeiliaid, ac yr wyf yn falch bod ymdrechion i’r perwyl hwn yn mynd rhagddynt.
Mae eich ymateb i’r ddau bwnc a gododd Peter Rogers yn rhyfeddol. Cyfeiriodd at y rheol 20 diwrnod, sydd yn gwneud gwaith ffermwyr yng Nghymru bron yn amhosibl, ac at daliadau premiwm blynyddol defaid. Yr ydych yn sefyll ger ein bron yn gwbl hunanfodlon heb ddeall yr argyfwng sy’n wynebu’r diwydiant amaethyddiaeth. Ni ddylech feio system gyfrifiadurol nac ychwaith ddiffyg pŵer. A wnewch chi ddangos ychydig o ewyllys gwleidyddol a gwneud rhywbeth dros ffermwyr ac amaethyddiaeth yng Nghymru?
Your response to both issues raised by Peter Rogers is astonishing. He referred to the 20-day rule, which is making it almost impossible for farmers to conduct their business, and to the sheep annual premium payments. You stand before us in a self-satisfied manner without realising the extent of the crisis facing the agriculture industry. You should not blame a computer system or lack of powers. Will you show at least some political will and do something to help farmers and agriculture in Wales?
I understand that you do not accept the Lessons Learned inquiry or the Royal Society report. I regret the fact that you consider that all the evidence placed before you is suspect. I have explained why we have not been able to make the SAPS payments. We cannot change the situation at the moment, but I have indicated when payments will be made. However, the situation is better than last year because farmers will receive one big payment rather than three smaller payments. Therefore, technically, farmers will be better off than they were last year.
Yr wyf ar ddeall nad ydych yn derbyn adroddiad ymchwiliad y Gwersi a Ddysgwyd nac adroddiad y Gymdeithas Frenhinol. Gresynaf eich bod yn amau’r holl dystiolaeth a gyflwynwyd ger eich bron. Eglurais pam na lwyddasom i wneud taliadau’r cynllun premiwm blynyddol defaid. Ni allwn newid y sefyllfa ar hyn o bryd, ond nodais pryd y gwneir taliadau. Fodd bynnag, mae’r sefyllfa yn well na’r llynedd gan y bydd ffermwyr yn derbyn un taliad mawr yn hytrach na thri thaliad llai. Felly, mewn gwirionedd, bydd ffermwyr yn well eu byd o’i gymharu â’r llynedd.
You may be aware that your colleague, Lord Livsey of Talgarth, is actively supporting an amendment to the Animal Health Bill that would render the 20-day rule irrelevant. Do you think that he is deluded?
Efallai y byddwch yn ymwybodol bod eich cyd-aelod, yr Arglwydd Livsey o Dalgarth, yn cefnogi’n frwd gwelliant i’r Mesur Iechyd Anifeiliaid a fyddai’n golygu y byddai’r rheol 20 diwrnod yn amherthnasol. A yw’n twyllo ei hun yn eich barn chi?
The amendment to which I think you refer is on the transfer of powers to the Assembly. I have just answered the question about how the Assembly’s powers will allow us to act differently. You know that at present our position must be the same as that of England. However, I am pleased to the note the Conservatives’ approval of further devolution of powers to Wales. I note that and hope you voice this opinion strongly next year.
Mae’r gwelliant y cyfeiriwch ato, fe gredaf, yn ymwneud â throsglwyddo pwerau i’r Cynulliad. Yr wyf newydd ateb y cwestiwn ynglŷn â sut y bydd pwerau’r Cynulliad yn ein galluogi i weithredu mewn ffordd wahanol. Gwyddoch ar hyn o bryd bod yn rhaid i’n sefyllfa fod yn unol â sefyllfa Lloegr. Fodd bynnag, yr wyf yn falch nodi bod y Ceidwadwyr o blaid datganoli pwerau pellach i Gymru. Nodaf hynny a gobeithiaf y byddwch yn datgan y farn hon ar goedd y flwyddyn nesaf.
Pwynt o Drefn
Point of Order
Pwynt o drefn. Cyfeiriodd y Dirprwy Brif Weinidog a’r Gweinidog dros Ddatblygu Gwledig a Chyrmu Dramor at ddatganiad ar yr ymchwiliad i glwy traed a’r genau. Nid yw’r datganiad hwnnw ar agenda Cyfarfod Llawn heddiw. Beth yw eich barn ynghylch priodoldeb cyhoeddi datganiad heddiw yn hytrach na’i wneud yn y Siambr?
Point of order. The Deputy First Minister and Minister for Rural Development and Wales Abroad referred to a statement on the investigation into foot and mouth disease. That statement is not on the agenda of today’s Plenary. What is your view on the propriety of publishing a statement today, rather than making it in the Chamber today?
Dafydd Elis-Thomas Y Llywydd siaradwyd yn Gymraeg t. 27
Dafydd Elis-Thomas The Presiding Officer spoken in Welsh p. 27
Mae’r Cod i’r Gweinidogion yn cyfeirio at y mater pwysig hwn. Mae cymal 3.1—datganiadau a chyhoeddiadau Gweinidogion y Cynulliad—yn datgan:
The Ministerial Code refers to this important matter. Clause 3.1—Assembly ministerial statements and announcemts—states that:
‘Pan fydd y Cynulliad yn eistedd, bydd y Gweinidogion am gadw mewn cof awydd y Cynulliad i’r cyhoeddiadau pwysicaf ar bolisi’r Cynulliad gael eu gwneud, yn y lle cyntaf, yn y Cynulliad.’
‘When the Assembly is in session, Ministers will want to bear in mind the desire of the Assembly that the most important announcements of the Assembly’s policy should be made, in the first instance, in the Assembly.’
Sylwais fod datganiad ar agenda Tŷ’r Cyffredin.
I noticed that there is a statement on the House of Commons order paper.
Cwestiynau i’r Trefnydd
Questions to the Business Minister
Cyfrinachedd Masnachol
Commercial Confidentiality
A wnaiff y Gweinidog ddatganiad ar ddefnyddio cyfrinachedd masnachol fel rheswm dros beidio â rhyddhau gwybodaeth ar ddatblygiadau yn y sector cyhoeddus? (OAQ20055)
Will the Minister make a statement on using commercial confidentiality as a reason for not releasing information on developments in the public sector? (OAQ20055)
Carwyn Jones Y Trefnydd siaradwyd yn Gymraeg t. 27
Carwyn Jones The Business Minister spoken in Welsh p. 27
Ymdriniwn â phob cais am wybodaeth ar sail yr achos unigol. Gwnawn eithriadau lle bo’n briodol.
We deal with every request for information on the basis of individual merit. We make exceptions where appropriate.
Mae glynu at gyfrinachedd masnachol a dal ar wybodaeth bwysig ynghylch adeiladu ysgol ar safle halogedig yn Llandudno a oedd yn perthyn i’r awdurdod lleol—ac yn dal i berthyn iddo hyd y gwn i—wedi achosi amheuon, tyndra a drwgdeimlad diangen ymhlith trigolion y dref. A oes unrhyw gyfiawnhad i awdurdod lleol beidio â rhyddhau a rhannu gwybodaeth am eiddo cyhoeddus? Onid yw hyn yn sarhad ar hawliau dynol ac yn gwbl groes i un o egwyddorion pennaf y Cynulliad, sef bod yn agored ac yn dryloyw, ac onid yw’n groes i ofynion y Ddeddf Rhyddid Gwybodaeth 2000?
Adhering to commercial confidentiality and retaining important information about building a school on contaminated land in Llandudno that belonged to the local authority—and still does as far as I know—has caused scepticism, tension and unnecessary animosity among townspeople. Is there any justification for a local authority not to release and share information about public property? Is this not an affront to human rights and contrary to one of the Assembly’s main principles of openness and transparency and is it not contrary to the requirements of the Freedom of Information Act 2000?
Ar ryddid gwybodaeth, y mae’r Cynulliad ymhell o flaen Lloegr a’r mwyafrif o wledydd eraill Ewrop. Dan rai amgylchiadau ni ellir rhyddhau gwybodaeth am nifer o wahanol resymau yn ymwneud â chyfrinachedd masnachol. Fodd bynnag, ar y sefyllfa yn Llandudno, yr ydym wedi ceisio rhyddhau cymaint o fanylion â phosibl fel bod bobl yn ymwybodol o’r hyn sydd yn digwydd.
In terms of freedom of information, the Assembly is way ahead of England and the majority of other European countries. In some circumstances information cannot be released for various reasons related to commercial confidentiality. However, on the situation in Llandudno, we have endeavoured to release as much information as possible so that people are aware of what is going on.
Byddwch yn gwybod, Gareth, fod y Cynulliad wedi hysbysu’r cyngor lleol o’i bryderon ynglŷn â rhai agweddau ar y prosiect. Os oes gan y cyngor reswm dros beidio â rhyddhau gwybodaeth oherwydd cyfrinachedd masnachol, dylech godi hynny gyda’r cyngor.
You will know, Gareth, that the Assembly has informed the local council of its concerns regarding some aspects of the project. If the council has a reason not to release information because of commercial confidentiality, you should raise that with the council.
On proposals to build schools on contaminated land, do you agree that matters of commercial confidentiality should not restrict the public availability of information on the pollution on that land, on what would constitute necessary remediation and on other issues of public safety?
Ar gynigion i adeiladu ysgolion ar dir halogedig, a gytunwch na ddylai materion o gyfrinachedd masnachol gyfyngu ar y wybodaeth sydd ar gael i’r cyhoedd am y llygredd ar y tir hwnnw, am beth fyddai’n gyfystyr ag unioni angenrheidiol ac am faterion eraill o ddiogelwch cyhoeddus?
That is a fair comment. Under no circumstances would it be correct to use commercial confidentiality to hide a particular site’s difficulties, or the effect of a particular site on the health of the users. That is not the intention of the commercial confidentiality exemption, nor is it the reason why it is applied.
Mae hynny’n bwynt teg. Ni fyddai’n briodol, o dan unrhyw amgylchiadau, i ddefnyddio cyfrinachedd masnachol i guddio anawsterau safle penodol, nac effaith safle penodol ar iechyd y defnyddwyr. Nid dyna fwriad yr eithriad cyfrinachedd masnachol, na’r rheswm dros ddefnyddio ychwaith.
Should not the full details of an environmental or health impact study undertaken by a private company in pursuit of a planning application be made available to those who may object to that planning application? This is not done at present.
Oni ddylai manylion llawn astudiaeth o’r effaith ar yr amgylchedd neu ar iechyd a gynhaliwyd gan gwmni preifat wrth geisio cais cynllunio fod ar gael i’r rheini a allai wrthwynebu’r cais cynllunio hwnnw? Ni wneir hyn ar hyn o bryd.
Without knowing of a particular case where that has happened, it is difficult to comment. Each case is treated and assessed individually.
Heb wybod am achos penodol lle y digwyddodd hynny, mae’n anodd gwneud sylwadau. Caiff pob achos ei drin a’i asesu yn unigol.
Value for money is chief among the measures considered when contemplating PFI. Part of that analysis is the calculation of the public sector comparator. Is there a case for publishing details of the public sector comparator calculation once a PFI end scheme has been decided upon?
Gwerth am arian yw un o’r prif ystyriaethau wrth bwyso a mesur a ddylid defnyddio’r fenter cyllid preifat. Rhan o’r dadansoddiad hwnnw yw cyfrifo’r cymharydd sector cyhoeddus. A oes achos dros gyhoeddi manylion cyfrifiad y cymharydd sector cyhoeddus unwaith y penderfynir defnyddio PFI?
I will consider whether that matter can be taken further. The Government’s and the Assembly’s standpoint is that information will be released unless it would cause substantial harm to the public interest.
Byddaf yn ystyried a ellid mynd â’r mater hwnnw ymhellach. Safbwynt y Cynulliad a’r Llywodraeth yw y caiff gwybodaeth ei rhyddhau oni fyddai’n peri niwed sylweddol i fudd y cyhoedd.
Llifogydd yn Sir Fynwy
Flooding in Monmouthshire
What discussion has the Minister had with Minister for Environment about giving Assembly Members on the Environment, Planning and Transport Committee access to the pre-feasibility study into flooding in Monmouthshire? (OAQ20037)
Pa drafodaethau y mae’r Gweinidog wedi eu cael â’r Gweinidog dros yr Amgylchedd ynghylch caniatáu i Aelodau Pwyllgor yr Amgylchedd, Cynllunio a Trafnidiaeth weld yr astudiaeth a wnaed cyn yr astudiaeth ddichonoldeb i lifogydd yn Sir Fynwy? (OAQ20037)
That is a matter for the Minister to consider in light of the advice that she receives from the Government’s officers and legal advisers.
Mae hynny’n fater i’r Gweinidog ei ystyried yng ngoleuni’r cyngor a gaiff gan swyddogion a chynghorwyr cyfreithiol y Llywodraeth.
You are the Minister for Open Government. After many enquiries, I finally saw that document, but not without trying extremely hard. Over the coming months, many more such documents will be produced and it is right that Assembly Members representing people in the areas affected should be able to see those documents as soon as they reach the Assembly. Is that not what open Government is about?
Chi yw’r Gweinidog dros Lywodraeth Agored. Ar ôl llawer o ymholiadau, gwelais y ddogfen honno o’r diwedd, ond bu’n rhaid imi ymdrechu’n daer. Dros y misoedd nesaf, cynhyrchir llawer mwy o ddogfennau o’r fath ac mae’n wir y dylai Aelodau’r Cynulliad sy’n cynrychioli pobl yn yr ardaloedd yr effeithir arnynt allu gweld y dogfennau hynny cyn gynted ag y byddant yn cyrraedd y Cynulliad. Onid dyna yw Llywodraeth agored?
If you have the document, I fail to see your complaint.
Os oes gennych y ddogfen, ni allaf ddeall pam eich bod yn cwyno.
All Committees help make policy in the National Assembly, which is committed to open government. However, in both the Economic Development Committee, in connection with the report on operating aids, and the Environment, Planning and Transport Committee, in connection with the estimated cost of proposed trunk roads, as David Davies has found, there was considerable difficulty and unnecessary delay in obtaining data that should be easily and freely available. What guidelines do you set that, on occasions, prevent Ministers from freely sharing data relevant to policy making with Committee members?
Mae pob Pwyllgor yn helpu i lunio polisïau yn y Cynulliad Cenedlaethol, sy’n ymrwymedig i lywodraeth agored. Fodd bynnag, yn y Pwyllgor Datblygu Economaidd, o ran yr adroddiad ar gymhorthion gweithredu, ac ym Mhwyllgor yr Amgylchedd, Cynllunio a Thrafnidiaeth, o ran cost amcangyfrifedig cefnffyrdd arfaethedig, fel y canfu David Davies, bu anhawster sylweddol ac oedi diangen wrth gael gafael ar wybodaeth a ddylai fod ar gael yn rhwydd ac yn ddidrafferth. Pa ganllawiau a osodir gennych sydd, ar adegau, yn rhwystro Gweinidogion rhag rhannu’n ddidrafferth gydag aelodau’r Pwyllgorau wybodaeth sy’n berthnasol i lunio polisïau?
I would be grateful if you would provide me with detailed information so that I can investigate the matter further. You have raised the matter generally, but if you feel that specific complaints need to be addressed, then I am willing to take the matter up.
Byddwn yn ddiolchgar pe gallech roi gwybodaeth fanwl imi er mwyn imi allu ymchwilio i’r mater ymhellach. Yr ydych wedi codi’r mater yn gyffredinol, ond os teimlwch fod angen ymdrin â chwynion penodol, yr wyf yn fodlon ymgymryd â’r mater.
Llywodraeth Agored
Open Government
Sut y byddwch yn mesur cyrhaeddiad y Llywodraeth wrth anelu at lywodraeth agored? (OAQ19964)
How will you measure the government’s achievements in aiming towards open government? (OAQ19964)
Mae ein Cod Ymarfer ar Ganiatáu i’r Cyhoedd Weld Gwybodaeth yn amlinellu ein hegwyddorion. Bydd y cynnydd yn niddordeb pobl Cymru a’u dealltwriaeth o lywodraeth yn dangos i ba raddau yr ydym wedi llwyddo.
Our Code of Practice on Public Access to Information sets out the principles by which we operate. The increase in the people of Wales’s interest and their understanding of government will be the measure of our success.
Ddoe, ar 5 Tachwedd, mewn llythyr dyddiedig 24 Hydref, cawsom y newyddion i Lywodraeth San Steffan wrthod argymhelliad unfrydol y Cynulliad y dylai Dydd Gŵyl Dewi fod yn ŵyl gyhoeddus. Derbyniasom y wybodaeth honno mewn llythyr yn hytrach nag ar ffurf datganiad gan y Cabinet. Ysgrifennwyd y llythyr gan Paul Murphy, at ein Prif Weinidog—ei weithred olaf fel Ysgrifennydd Gwladol Cymru, mae’n debyg. Pam mae Llywodraeth agored y Cynulliad wedi celu’r wybodaeth cyhyd?
Yesterday, on 5 November, in a letter dated 24 October, we heard that the Westminster Government had rejected the Assembly’s unanimous recommendation that St David’s Day be a public holiday. We received that information by letter rather than by way of a Cabinet statement. The letter was written by Paul Murphy to the First Minister—probably his last act as Secretary of State for Wales. Why has the open Government of the Assembly held back this information for so long?
Ni welaf fod hynny’n broblem. Y peth pwysicaf yw bod pobl yn gwybod ateb Llywodraeth y Deyrnas Unedig ar y mater hwn, ac mae’n fater y mae’n rhaid i’r Cynulliad a’i Lywodraeth ei ystyried. Ni fu inni geisio gelu’r llythyr hwn. Mae wedi ei ryddhau ac mae angen peth amser i ryddhau llythyr i’r cyhoedd. Ni welaf broblem ynglŷn â hynny.
I see no problem with that. What is important is that people are aware of the United Kingdom Government’s decision on this matter, and it is a matter that the Assembly and its Government must consider. This letter has not been suppressed in any way. It has been released, and it takes time for a letter to be made public. I see no problem with that.
Will you consider making it a requirement on the Assembly and its sponsored public bodies to produce a local procurement document each year so that we can examine the levels of local procurement?
A wnewch chi ystyried ei gwneud yn ofynnol i’r Cynulliad a’r cyrff cyhoeddus a noddir ganddo gynhyrchu dogfen gaffael leol bob blwyddyn er mwyn inni allu archwilio lefelau caffael lleol?
That is an interesting suggestion. If I remember correctly, it is possible for local authorities, ASPBs and the Assembly to avoid European procurement rules if the value of the contract is below £5,000. That has been known for some months. It is not a tremendous amount of money, but other European countries, although not avoiding the procurement rules, deal with several small contracts. For example, an education authority might have a separate contract for the supply of potatoes, cauliflower, meat and so on. That is how they get around the European procurement rules. This is being taken up by the Deputy First Minister and Minister for Rural Development and Wales Abroad. I think it is an interesting suggestion.
Dyna awgrym ddiddorol. Os cofiaf yn iawn, mae’n bosibl i awdurdodau lleol, Cyrff Cyhoeddus a Noddir gan y Cynulliad a’r Cynulliad osgoi rheolau caffael Ewropeaidd os bydd gwerth y contract yn is na £5,000. Bu hynny’n hysbys ers rhai misoedd. Nid yw’n swm mawr iawn o arian, ond mae gwledydd Ewropeaidd eraill, er nad ydynt yn osgoi’r rheolau caffael, yn ymdrin â sawl contract bach. Er enghraifft, gallai awdurdod addysg gael contract ar wahân ar gyfer cyflenwi tatws, blodfresych, cig ac ati. Dyna’r ffordd y maent yn osgoi rheolau caffael Ewrop. Mae’r Dirprwy Brif Weinidog a’r Gweinidog dros Ddatblygu Gwledig a Chymru Dramor yn ymgymryd â hyn. Credaf fod yr awgrym yn un diddorol.
In line with the principles of open government that you so often highlight, will you agree to open up the task and finish group appointment system, and advertise vacancies, or are you satisfied with the closed-shop appointment system that currently exists?
Yn unol ag egwyddorion llywodraeth agored, a amlygir gennych mor aml, a gytunwch i wneud system benodi grwpiau gorchwyl a gorffen yn un agored, a hysbysebu swyddi gwag, neu a ydych yn fodlon â’r system benodi gaeëdig sy’n bodoli ar hyn o bryd?
It is ironic to hear a Conservative talk about a closed-shop appointment system, when, for so many years in Wales, the primary requirement of their system—[ASSEMBLY MEMBERS: ‘Answer the question.’] They do not like the truth do they? The primary requirement of being appointed to a quango was to lose a Westminster seat. The irony of that is stunning to everyone who is not blinded by illogic.
Mae’n eironig clywed Ceidwadwr yn siarad am system benodi gaeëdig, pan, am gymaint o flynyddoedd yng Nghymru, mai prif ofyniad eu system—[AELODAU’R CYNULLIAD: ‘Atebwch y cwestiwn.’] Nid ydynt yn hoff o’r gwir, nac ydynt? Y prif ofyniad i gael eich penodi i gwango oedd colli sedd yn San Steffan. Mae eironi hynny’n rhyfeddu pawb na chânt eu dallu gan afresymeg.
Task and finish group members are chosen via Nolan principles, and every effort is made to make the appointments as balanced as possible. However, they are often made up of people who are appointed by organisations outside the National Assembly, and we must ensure that those organisations are equally aware of the open government principles that we now have in Wales, which we did not have for so long.
Dewisir aelodau’r grwpiau gorchwyl a gorffen ar sail egwyddorion Nolan, a gwneir pob ymdrech i sicrhau bod y penodiadau mor gytbwys â phosibl. Fodd bynnag, yn aml maent yn cynnwys pobl a benodir gan sefydliadau y tu allan i’r Cynulliad Cenedlaethol, a rhaid inni sicrhau bod y sefydliadau hynny yr un mor ymwybodol o’r egwyddorion llywodraeth agored sydd gennym ni yng Nghymru bellach, egwyddorion nad oedd gennym am gyfnod mor hir.
Will you accept the congratulations given yesterday by a researcher from Ottawa, who was amazed by the amount of information that is available in the public domain on the National Assembly and how it works?
A dderbyniwch y llongyfarchiadau ddoe gan ymchwilydd o Ottawa, a oedd wedi ei syfrdanu gan faint o wybodaeth sydd ar gael i’r cyhoedd ar y Cynulliad Cenedlaethol a sut y mae’n gweithio?
I am heartened to hear such comments from someone who works in another system of government. It illustrates how open our system of government is. We will seek to ensure that the system is improved over the course of time, but we must realise that we are far ahead of the game by comparison to many other countries.
Mae’n codi fy nghalon i glywed sylwadau o’r fath gan rywun sy’n gweithio mewn system lywodraethu arall. Dengys pa mor agored yw ein system lywodraethu ni. Ceisiwn sicrhau bod y system yn cael ei gwella gyda threigl amser, ond rhaid inni sylweddoli ein bod ar flaen y gad o gymharu â llawer o wledydd eraill.
Cwestiynau’r Cynulliad
Assembly Questions
Pa arweiniad fyddwch yn ei roi i’ch cyd-Aelodau o’r Cabinet ar faterion yn ymwneud ag ateb cwestiynau’r Cynulliad? (OAQ19962)
What guidance do you give your Cabinet colleagues on matters relating to answering Assembly questions? (OAQ19962)
Nid fy lle i yw cynghori fy nghyd-Weinidogion ar y ffordd i ateb cwestiynau. Mae’r Cod i’r Gweinidogion ar gael i’r diben hwnnw.
It is not for me to advise my Cabinet colleagues on answering questions. The Ministerial Code is available for that purpose.
Yr wyf wedi derbyn sawl ateb yn ddiweddar nad oedd yn ateb fy nghwestiynau. Er enghraifft, gwrthododd y Gweinidog dros Iechyd a Gwasanaethau Cymdeithasol wneud datganiad ar berfformiad Cyngor Dinas Caerdydd pan oedd adroddiadau yn y cyfryngau ar y problemau â’i adran gwasanaethau cymdeithasol. Bu i’r Gweinidog dros yr Amgylchedd hefyd osgoi ateb cwestiynau anodd ynghylch cyllido cynllun ULTra ym mae Caerdydd. Onid diben llywodraeth agored yw lledaenu gwybodaeth yn hytrach na’i chuddio?
I have received several replies recently that did not answer my questions. For example, the Minister for Health and Social Services refused to make a statement on the performance of Cardiff City Council when the media was reporting problems in its social services department. The Minister for Environment also refused to answer difficult questions on funding the ULTra scheme in Cardiff bay. Is not the purpose of open government to disseminate information rather than suppress it?
Ni dderbyniaf fod Gweinidogion wedi ceisio atal manylion rhag cael eu lledaenu i Aelodau nac i’r cyhoedd. Efallai y byddai’n help pe byddech yn gofyn cwestiynau mwy cul.
I do not accept that Ministers have tried to prevent the circulation of details to Members or to the public. It may be helpful if you were to ask more focused questions.
My question relates to the tardiness of responses to Assembly questions, rather than the lack of response. What procedures do you have for monitoring that system? If you have such a system, can it be extended to correspondence? I wrote to the Minister for Economic Development regarding the Jones Brothers of Ruthin on 16 July, and received a response on 17 October. I also wrote a letter on Elizabeth the Chef Ltd in Aberystwyth on 4 October; I sent a reminder on 23 October and have still not received a response. Do you have a system for dealing with this sort of delay, which impedes us in our duties?
Mae fy nghwestiwn yn ymwneud ag arafwch yr ymatebion i gwestiynau’r Cynulliad, yn hytrach na’r diffyg ymateb. Pa weithdrefnau sydd gennych ar gyfer monitro’r system honno? Os oes gennych system o’r fath, a ellir ei hymestyn i ohebiaeth? Ysgrifennais at y Gweinidog dros Ddatblygu Economaidd o ran y Brodyr Jones o Rhuthun ar 16 Gorffennaf, a derbyniais ymateb ar 17 Hydref. Ysgrifennais lythyr hefyd ar Elizabeth the Chef Cyf yn Aberystwyth ar 4 Hydref, anfonais nodyn atgoffa ar 23 Hydref ac nid wyf wedi cael ymateb o hyd. A oes gennych system ar gyfer ymdrin ag oedi o’r fath, sy’n ein rhwystro rhag cyflawni ein dyletswyddau?
There are guidelines as to the timescale within which correspondence is supposed to be answered. Ministers generally adhere to those guidelines. However, there may be occasions when the timescale for answer is extended; I will investigate the specific examples you have given me.
Mae canllawiau o ran y cyfnod y dylid ateb gohebiaeth. Yn gyffredinol, mae Gweinidogion yn glynu at y canllawiau hynny. Fodd bynnag, gallai fod adegau pan estynnir y cyfnod ar gyfer ateb; byddaf yn ymchwilio i’r enghreifftiau penodol a roddwyd gennych.
Dafydd Elis-Thomas The Presiding Officer spoken in English p. 33
Dafydd Elis-Thomas Y Llywydd siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 33
I see that David Davies is not present to ask question 5, (OAQ19961). It will be transferred for written answer.
Gwelaf nad yw David Davies yn bresennol i ofyn cwestiwn 5, (OAQ19961). Caiff ei drosglwyddo i’w ateb yn ysgrifenedig.
Datganiadau’r Cabinet
Cabinet Statements
How many Cabinet statements are made outside Plenary time? (OAQ20040)
Faint o ddatganiadau’r Cabinet sy’n cael eu gwneud y tu allan i amser Cyfarfodydd Llawn? (OAQ20040)
There are no figures on the number of statements made in the Chamber compared to written statements. However, Ministers are mindful of the need to make the most important Government policy announcements in the Chamber, whenever possible and when there is time available to do so. Announcements that cannot be accommodated within Plenary time are made via other means, such as written statements, or in Subject Committees.
Nid oes unrhyw ffigurau ar nifer y datganiadau a wnaethpwyd yn y Siambr o’u cymharu â datganiadau ysgrifenedig. Fodd bynnag, mae’r Gweinidogion yn ymwybodol o’r angen i wneud y cyhoeddiadau pwysicaf o ran polisïau’r Llywodraeth yn y Siambr, pryd bynnag y bo’n bosibl a phryd bynnag y bydd amser ar gael i wneud hynny. Gwneir cyhoeddiadau na ellir eu cynnwys o fewn amser Cyfarfodydd Llawn drwy gyfrwng arall, megis datganiadau ysgrifenedig, neu mewn Pwyllgorau Pwnc.
I am astonished that the Government does not keep a record of how many Cabinet statements are made in the Chamber—where they can be properly scrutinised by Assembly Members—and how many are made in or just before recess because Ministers cannot be bothered to make them in Plenary. To give a classic example, the Minister for Education and Lifelong Learning has, on more than one occasion, issued written statements first to the press, and secondly to Assembly Members via the intranet, when those statements could have easily been made in the Chamber so that Members of all parties could quiz her on them. Should you not keep a record and publish it to ensure that we can hold the Government to account in the usual way?
Yr wyf yn synnu nad yw’r Llywodraeth yn cadw cofnod o faint o ddatganiadau’r Cabinet a wneir yn y Siambr—lle y gall Aelodau’r Cynulliad graffu arnynt yn briodol—a faint a wneir yn ystod toriad neu ychydig cyn toriad am nad yw Gweinidogion am drafferthu eu gwneud mewn Cyfarfod Llawn. I roi enghraifft nodweddiadol, mae’r Gweinidog dros Addysg a Dysgu Gydol Oes, ar fwy nag un achlysur, wedi cyhoeddi datganiadau ysgrifenedig i’r wasg yn gyntaf, ac yn ail i Aelodau’r Cynulliad drwy’r fewnrwyd, pan allai’r datganiadau hynny yn hawdd fod wedi eu gwneud yn y Siambr er mwyn i Aelodau o bob plaid ei holi yn eu cylch. Oni ddylech gadw cofnod a’i gyhoeddi i sicrhau y bydd y Llywodraeth yn atebol yn y modd arferol?
Statements can be made orally in Plenary, or can be issued in written form. The important issue is that those statements are made. There are a number of reasons why statements are sometimes delayed or are issued in written form. There is plenty of opportunity to scrutinise Ministers, not only in the Chamber, but also in Subject Committees, where any number of questions can be asked on any statements that have been made.
Gellir gwneud datganiadau ar lafar mewn Cyfarfod Llawn, neu gellir eu cyhoeddi’n ysgrifenedig. Y peth pwysig yw bod y datganiadau hynny’n cael eu gwneud. Mae nifer o resymau pam y bydd oedi cyn gwneud datganiadau weithiau neu pam y cânt eu cyhoeddi ar ffurf ysgrifenedig. Mae digon o gyfle i graffu ar Weinidogion, nid yn unig yn y Siambr ond mewn Pwyllgorau Pwnc hefyd, lle y gellir gofyn y nifer a fynner o gwestiynau ar unrhyw ddatganiadau a wnaethpwyd.
Are you prepared to consider the different practices of different Ministers? You do not know how many statements are made, but some Ministers make statements regularly. The Minister for Health and Social Services sometimes brings matters before us in oral statements that could be decided upon executively. However, as Jonathan Morgan said, the Minister for Education and Lifelong Learning makes statements on important funding decisions outside Plenary when there is a light agenda. Will you, as Minister for Open Government, undertake to monitor your colleagues’ practices so that we can at least ensure consistency, if not good practice?
A ydych yn barod i ystyried arferion gwahanol Gweinidogion gwahanol? Ni wyddoch faint o ddatganiadau a wneir, ond mae rhai Gweinidogion yn gwneud datganiadau yn rheolaidd. Weithiau, mae’r Gweinidog dros Iechyd a Gwasanaethau Cymdeithasol yn cyflwyno materion ger ein bron mewn datganiadau llafar y gellid penderfynu arnynt yn weithredol. Fodd bynnag, fel y dywedodd Jonathan Morgan, mae’r Gweinidog dros Addysg a Dysgu Gydol Oes yn gwneud datganiadau ar benderfyniadau ariannu pwysig y tu allan i’r Cyfarfodydd Llawn pan fydd yr agenda’n ysgafn. A fyddwch chi, fel y Gweinidog dros Lywodraeth Agored, yn ymgymryd â’r gwaith o fonitro arferion eich cyd-Aelodau er mwyn inni allu sicrhau cysondeb o leiaf, os nad arfer da?
The Minister for Education and Lifelong Learning is being singled out unfairly. She wished to make her last statement orally in Plenary, but there was insufficient time to do so. That should be made clear—it was not her fault. Decisions are taken as to how statements are made, and that is a matter for each Minister, bearing in mind the amount of time that is available in Plenary. We try to bring as many statements as possible before Plenary, but there are reasons why that cannot be done from time to time.
Cyfeirir at y Gweinidog dros Addysg a Dysgu Gydol Oes yn annheg. Yr oedd yn awyddus i wneud ei datganiad olaf ar lafar mewn Cyfarfod Llawn, ond nid oedd digon o amser iddi wneud hynny. Dylid gwneud hynny’n glir—nid hi oedd ar fai. Gwneir penderfyniadau o ran y ffordd y gwneir datganiadau, a mater i bob Gweinidog yw hynny, gan gadw mewn cof faint o amser sydd ar gael mewn Cyfarfodydd Llawn. Ceisiwn gyflwyno cynifer o ddatganiadau â phosibl gerbron y Cyfarfod Llawn, ond mae rhesymau pam na ellir gwneud hynny o bryd i’w gilydd.
Pwynt o Drefn
Point of Order
Point of order. I raise this under Standing Order No. 6.3. It relates to the Minister’s response to my supplementary question on why the Cabinet chose to appoint people to task and finish groups rather than advertise those posts. The Minister highlighted that those appointments were subject to Nolan principles. In answer to a written Assembly question, the First Minister advised me that the posts were not subject to the Nolan principles. There is an inconsistency there. Is it not now time that the Minister opened up the appointments to task and finish groups and advertised them in line with the principles of open government?
Pwynt o drefn. Codaf hwn o dan Reol Sefydlog Rhif 6.3. Mae’n ymwneud ag ymateb y Gweinidog i’m cwestiwn atodol ar pam y dewisodd y Cabinet benodi pobl ar grwpiau gorchwyl a gorffen yn hytrach na hysbysebu’r swyddi hynny. Nododd y Gweinidog fod y penodiadau hynny yn seiliedig ar egwyddorion Nolan. Mewn ateb i gwestiwn ysgrifenedig, fe’m cynghorwyd gan y Prif Weinidog nad oedd y swyddi yn seiliedig ar egwyddorion Nolan. Mae hynny’n anghyson. Onid yw bellach yn amser i’r Gweinidog wneud y penodiadau i grwpiau gorchwyl a gorffen yn broses agored a’u hysbysebu yn unol ag egwyddorion llywodraeth agored?
Dafydd Elis-Thomas The Presiding Officer spoken in English p. 35
Dafydd Elis-Thomas Y Llywydd siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 35
That is not directly a matter for me. I am sure that the Minister will have heard your point and consider whether it is appropriate to write to you. If that were to happen, I am sure that such correspondence would be published.
Nid yw hynny’n fater i mi yn uniongyrchol. Yr wyf yn siŵr y clywodd y Gweinidog eich pwynt ac y bydd yn ystyried a yw’n briodol ysgrifennu atoch. Pe bai hynny’n digwydd, yr wyf yn siŵr y byddai gohebiaeth o’r fath yn cael ei chyhoeddi.
Cynnig Cyfansawdd: Cymeradwyo Gorchmynion
Composite Motion: Approval of Orders
Carwyn Jones The Business Minister spoken in English p. 35
Carwyn Jones Y Trefnydd siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 35
I propose that
Cynigiaf fod
Dafydd Elis-Thomas Y Llywydd siaradwyd yn Gymraeg t. 36
Dafydd Elis-Thomas The Presiding Officer spoken in Welsh p. 36
O dan Reol Sefydlog Rhif 22.25, ni chynhelir dadl ar y cynnig hwn.
Under Standing Order No. 22.25, this motion is not subject to debate.
Cynnig cyfansawdd NDM1200 Carwyn Jones t. 36
Composite motion NDM1200 Carwyn Jones p. 36
DerbyniwydAdopted O blaidFor 41 YmatalAbstain 0 Yn erbynAgainst 0
Derbyniwyd y cynnig.
Motion carried.
Sut y pleidleisiodd yr AelodauHow Members voted
O blaidFor (41)
- Lorraine Barrett
- Mick Bates
- Peter Black
- Nick Bourne
- Eleanor Burnham
- Rosemary Butler
- Alun Cairns
- Jane Davidson
- Andrew Davies
- Geraint Davies
- Janet Davies
- Richard Edwards
- Sue Essex
- Delyth Evans
- Michael German
- William Graham
- Janice Gregory
- John Griffiths
- Brian Gibbons
- Alison Halford
- Brian Hancock
- Edwina Hart
- Jane Hutt
- Ann Jones
- Carwyn Jones
- David Ian Jones
- Elin Jones
- Helen Mary Jones
- Peter Law
- Huw Lewis
- David Lloyd
- Val Lloyd
- David Melding
- Tom Middlehurst
- Jonathan Morgan
- Rhodri Morgan
- Janet Ryder
- Karen Sinclair
- Gwenda Thomas
- Rhodri Glyn Thomas
- Kirsty Williams
Cymeradwyo Cyllideb Derfynol y Cynulliad
Approval of the Assembly’s Final Budget
Dafydd Elis-Thomas Y Llywydd siaradwyd yn Gymraeg t. 37
Dafydd Elis-Thomas The Presiding Officer spoken in Welsh p. 37
Cyn imi alw’r Gweinidog i gynnig y cynnig, yr wyf wedi gosod amserlen dynn ar y ddadl hon i amddiffyn y busnes sydd i’w ddilyn, gan gynnwys y ddadl fer, wrth ystyried y newidiadau i’r Rheolau Sefydlog ddoe. Bydd y Gweinidog a’r Llywodraeth yn cael y 15 munud arferol, caiff prif lefaryddion y pleidiau eraill bum munud, a chaiff y gweddill ohonoch dri munud i siarad.
Before I call the Minister to propose the motion, I have set a tight timetable on this debate to protect the business which follows, including the short debate, in light of yesterday’s changes to Standing Orders. The Minister and the Government will have the usual 15 minutes, the main spokespersons of the other parties will have five minutes, and the rest of you will have three minutes in which to speak.
Edwina Hart The Finance Minister spoken in English p. 37
Edwina Hart Y Gweinidog Cyllid siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 37
I propose that
Cynigiaf fod
Edwina Hart The Finance Minister (continued) spoken in English p. 37
Edwina Hart Y Gweinidog Cyllid (parhad) siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 37
I am pleased to present my final budget proposals for the three years to 2005-06. I have also taken careful note of the comments received in correspondence from Chairs of the Subject Committees, which have been discussing the draft budget proposals for the past two or three weeks. I am pleased that reactions have, by and large, been positive and I shall return to some of the specific points raised in a moment. The budget papers will be completed later today, when I issue a table reconciling the changes made in the final budget with the draft budget, plus a table listing the additional allocations of end-year flexibility for 2003-04.
Mae’n dda gennyf gyflwyno fy nghynigion cyllideb terfynol ar gyfer y tair blynedd hyd at 2005–06. Yr wyf hefyd wedi nodi’n ofalus y sylwadau a dderbyniwyd mewn gohebiaeth gan Gadeiryddion y Pwyllgorau Pwnc, a fu’n trafod cynigion y gyllideb ddrafft am y pythefnos i dair wythnos diwethaf. Yr wyf yn falch bod yr ymateb wedi bod, ar y cyfan, yn gadarnhaol a dychwelaf at rai o’r pwyntiau penodol a godwyd mewn munud. Cwblheir papurau’r gyllideb yn ddiweddarach heddiw pan fyddaf yn cyhoeddi tabl yn cysoni’r newidiadau a wnaed yn y gyllideb derfynol â’r gyllideb ddrafft, ynghyd â thabl yn rhestru’r dyraniadau ychwanegol o hyblygrwydd diwedd blwyddyn ar gyfer 2003–04.
Daeth William Graham i’r Gadair am 3.11 p.m.
William Graham took the Chair at 3.11 p.m.
Edwina Hart The Finance Minister (continued) spoken in English p. 38
Edwina Hart Y Gweinidog Cyllid (parhad) siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 38
In my statement on the draft budget, I gave a clear commitment about the priority that this Government attaches to tackling the problem of drug and alcohol misuse. That is my main theme for today’s debate. It is not a subject for ill-considered policy announcements and soundbites; it is a real problem requiring comprehensive solutions that have been developed with those dealing with the problems on the ground. This is a strong partnership in Wales. I also announced a new fund for community safety and, as part of those proposals, I underlined that we would support the three south Wales police forces in their efforts to tackle the influx of class-A drugs into Wales. I said that I had been looking hard at what could be done to improve the availability of treatment across Wales, and that I would make further announcements about it today.
Yn fy natganiad ar y gyllideb ddrafft rhoddais addewid pendant am y flaenoriaeth y mae’r Llywodraeth hon yn ei rhoi i fynd i’r afael â phroblem camddefnyddio cyffuriau ac alcohol. Dyna fy mhrif thema ar gyfer dadl heddiw. Nid yw’n bwnc ar gyfer cyhoeddiadau polisi nas ystyriwyd yn ddoeth a datganiadau bachog; mae’n broblem wirioneddol sy’n gofyn am atebion llawn a ddatblygwyd gyda’r rhai sy’n ymdrin â’r problemau ar lawr gwlad. Mae hon yn bartneriaeth gref yng Nghymru. Hefyd, cyhoeddais gronfa newydd ar gyfer diogelwch cymunedol ac, fel rhan o’r cynigion hyn, tanlinellais y byddem yn cefnogi tri gwasanaeth heddlu’r De yn eu hymdrechion i fynd i’r afael â’r mewnlif o gyffuriau dosbarth-A i Gymru. Dywedais fy mod wedi bod yn edrych yn fanwl ar yr hyn y gellid ei wneud i wella argaeledd triniaeth ledled Cymru, ac y buaswn yn gwneud cyhoeddiadau eraill heddiw.
Will you give way?
A ildiwch?
No, I do not intend to give way in this speech.
Na wnaf, nid wyf yn bwriadu ildio yn yr araith hon.
The initial findings of a report into the demands and availability of treatment and rehabilitation services across Wales have highlighted stark variations between areas. Some have long waiting lists, which deters those seeking help. Preliminary research indicates that there has been a significant increase in problematic substance misusers in Wales since 1996.
Mae canfyddiadau cychwynnol yr adroddiad ar y galw am driniaeth a’i hargaeledd ac am wasanaethau ailsefydlu ledled Cymru wedi tanlinellu amrywiadau eithriadol rhwng ardaloedd. Mae gan rai restrau aros hir, sy’n atal y rheini sy’n chwilio am gymorth. Dengys ymchwil ragarweiniol fod cynnydd sylweddol mewn camddefnyddwyr sylweddau problematig yng Nghymru ers 1996.
I have already announced my plans for restructuring drug and alcohol action teams, which are responsible for ensuring that our substance misuse strategy is delivered across Wales. My plan is for the Assembly to take control of those teams. However, it is clear that the new structures cannot deliver the improvement and consistency in services required without significant additional funds, which is why, today, I am announcing increases in the amounts of money available for treatment for the next three years. The national health service currently spends around £12 million per annum on treatment for substance misusers, but expenditure and demand across Wales is currently mismatched. I therefore intend to ring-fence that element of NHS funding.
Yr wyf eisoes wedi cyhoeddi fy nghynlluniau ar gyfer ailsdrwythuro timau gweithredu cyffuriau ac alcohol, sy’n gyfrifol am sicrhau bod ein strategaeth camddefnyddio sylweddau yn cael ei chyflwyno ledled Cymru. Fy nghynllun i yw y bydd y Cynulliad yn gyfrifol am y timau hynny. Fodd bynnag, mae’n glir na all y sdrwythurau newydd gyflwyno’r gwelliant a’r cysondeb mewn gwasanaethau sy’n angenrheidiol heb arian ychwanegol sylweddol, a dyna pam yr wyf heddiw yn cyhoeddi cynnydd yn y symiau arian sydd ar gael ar gyfer triniaethau am y tair blynedd nesaf. Mae’r gwasanaeth iechyd gwladol ar hyn o bryd yn gwario £12 miliwn y flwyddyn ar drin camddefnyddwyr sylweddau ond nid yw’r gwariant a’r galw ledled Cymru yn cyfateb ar hyn o bryd. Felly bwriadaf glustnodi’r elfen hon o wariant y GIG.
In relation to the drug and alcohol initiatives budget, which currently stands at £3.4 million, I am allocating an additional £3 million for next year, £6 million for 2004-05 and £9 million for 2005-06. For next year, that additional funding will allow us to set up the equivalent of five additional community drug and alcohol action teams across Wales. That means more community psychiatric nurses, more support staff and more time for general practitioners to prescribe substitute medication. In turn, that will also allow over 1,000 more people to access community detoxification services. That area will then expand in the following two years in line with the increase in funding. I will also consider the availability of and demand for bed spaces for residential detoxification and rehabilitation treatment, and will address any shortages.
Mewn perthynas â chyllideb mentrau cyffuriau ac alcohol, sydd yn £3.4 miliwn ar hyn o bryd, yr wyf yn dyrannu £3 miliwn ychwanegol ar gyfer y flwyddyn nesaf, £6 miliwn ar gyfer 2004-05 a £9 miliwn ar gyfer 2005–06. Ar gyfer y flwyddyn nesaf bydd yr arian ychwanegol hynny yn caniatáu inni sefydlu nifer sy’n gyfwerth â phum tîm gweithredu cyffuriau ac alcohol cymunedol ychwanegol ledled Cymru. Golyga hyn fwy o nyrsys seiciatrig cymunedol, mwy o staff cymorth a mwy o amser i feddygon teulu ragnodi meddyginiaeth yn lle sylweddau. Yn eu tro, bydd hynny hefyd yn caniatáu i dros 1,000 yn fwy o bobl gael mynediad i wasanaethau dadwenwyno cymunedol. Caiff y maes hwn wedyn ei ymestyn yn y ddwy flynedd nesaf yn unol â’r cynnydd mewn ariannu. Byddaf hefyd yn ystyried yr argaeledd a’r galw am welyau ar gyfer triniaeth dadwenwyno preswyl a thriniaeth ailsefylu, a byddaf yn mynd i’r afael ag unrhyw brinderau.
There is clear evidence—reinforced by the social exclusion unit report ‘Reducing re-offending by ex-prisoners’ published last May—to show that people who can access accommodation on their release from jail and are given other support are far less likely to reoffend. In my draft budget, I announced increases in provision for the housing budget, and I intend for some of those additional resources to provide halfway house accommodation for prisoners on release from jail, with particular regard to those with a substance misuse problem.
Mae tystiolaeth eglur—a atgyfnerthir gan adroddiad yr uned allgáu cymdeithasol ‘Lleihau aildroseddu gan gyn-garcharorion’ a gyhoeddwyd fis Mai diwethaf—i ddangos bod pobl sy’n gallu cael llety ar ôl eu rhyddhau o’r carchar ac sy’n derbyn cymorth arall yn llai tebygol o lawer o aildroseddu. Yn fy nghyllideb ddrafft, cyhoeddais gynnydd yn narpariaeth y gyllideb tai, a bwriadaf i beth o’r adnoddau ychwanegol hyn ddarparu tai hanner ffordd ar gyfer carcharorion pan gânt eu rhyddhau o’r carchar, gan roi ystyriaeth arbennig i’r rheini sydd â phroblem camddefnyddio sylweddau.
The increase in the drug and alcohol initiative budget, which I am announcing today, will also be used to provide support for prisoners with substance misuse problems on their release from prison. Many prisoners who were successful in kicking their habit while in jail soon slip back to their old habits on release because of the lack of follow-up support, and they end up back in an endless cycle of reoffending. I therefore intend to provide local support workers to target this group in each of the new drug and alcohol action team areas. Further support will also be provided within prisons. To assist the community safety partnerships with the cost of developing new statutory local substance misuse plans, next year, I will make a one-off payment of £20,000 to each of them.
Bydd y cynnydd yn y gyllideb menter cyffuriau ac alcohol, yr wyf yn ei chyhoeddi heddiw, yn cael ei ddefnyddio hefyd i gefnogi carcharorion sydd â phroblemau camddefnyddio sylweddau pan gânt eu rhyddhau o’r carchar. Mae llawer o’r carcharorion a fu’n llwyddiannus yn rhoi’r gorau i’w harfer tra yn y carchar yn llithro’n ôl i’w hen batrwm ar ôl eu rhyddhau gan nad oes cefnogaeth ddilynol ar gael, a dychwelant at gylch diderfyn o aildroseddu. Felly bwriadaf ddarparu gweithwyr cymorth lleol i dargedu’r grŵp hwn ym mhob un o ardaloedd y timau gweithredu cyffuriau ac alcohol newydd. Darperir cymorth pellach hefyd o fewn carchardai. Byddaf yn gwneud un taliad o £20,000 i bob partneriaeth diogelu’r gymuned y flwyddyn nesaf i gynorthwyo â chost datblygu cynlluniau camddefnyddio sylweddau lleol statudol newydd.
I recognise that parts of north Wales have a drug problem, and have considered how to assist the various agencies there. The problems stem from the easy access to the area for drug dealers from large conurbations over the border, such as Liverpool and Manchester. The problem is most acute in Rhyl, which attracts substance misusers from over the border because of the old seaside accommodation, which is now used for multiple occupation. For next year, I am therefore allocating £88,000 of end-year flexibility resource to the Rhyl policing priority area. These resources will be used to support capital expenditure on such matters as surveillance equipment, mobile closed circuit television units and youth diversion projects. This will complement the activities undertaken as part of the Home Office’s communities against drugs programme.
Cydnabyddaf fod gan rannau o’r Gogledd broblem gyffuriau, ac yr wyf wedi ystyried sut y gellir cynorthwyo’r asiantaethau amrywiol yno. Mae’r problemau’n deillio o hygyrchedd hawdd yr ardal i werthwyr cyffuriau o ddinasoedd mawr dros y ffin, megis Lerpwl a Manceinion. Mae’r broblem ar ei gwaethaf yn Y Rhyl, sy’n denu camddefnyddwyr sylweddau o dros y ffin oherwydd yr hen lety glan môr, a ddefnyddir bellach ar gyfer amlfeddiant. Ar gyfer y flwyddyn nesaf, yr wyf felly’n dyrannu £88,000 o adnodd hyblygrwydd diwedd blwyddyn i ardal flaenoriaeth plismona Y Rhyl. Caiff yr adnoddau hyn eu defnyddio i gynnal gwariant cyfalaf ar faterion megis offer gwyliadwriaeth, unedau symudol teledu cylch cyfyng a phrosiectau arallgyfeirio ieuenctid. Bydd hyn yn ategu’r gweithgareddau yr ymgymerir â hwy fel rhan o raglen cymunedau yn erbyn cyffuriau y Swyddfa Gartref.
Evidence shows that there is a significant correlation between alcohol and drug misuse and violence in relationships. For that reason, funding has already been provided for the core costs of Welsh Women’s Aid and the Black Association of Women Step Out. I now intend to provide additional funds to develop further initiatives to tackle domestic violence in Wales. In particular, I want to ensure that the good projects, which we know work, are taken forward. I am also aware that the Assembly’s working group on domestic violence is keen to ensure that we take a strategic approach and develop new initiatives. These aims cannot be achieved without new resources. I will therefore provide an additional £1 million for each of the three years to tackle this disturbing problem.
Dengys tystiolaeth fod cydberthyniad sylweddol rhwng y camddefnydd o alcohol a chyffuriau a thrais mewn cydberthnasau. Am y rheswm hwn, darparwyd ariannu eisoes ar gyfer costau craidd Cymorth i Fenywod Cymru a’r Black Association of Women Step Out. Yn awr, bwriadaf ddarparu arian ychwanegol i ddatblygu mentrau pellach i fynd i’r afael â thrais yn y cartref yng Nghymru. Yn arbennig, yr wyf am sicrhau bod prosiectau da, y gwyddom eu bod yn gweithio, yn cael eu datblygu. Yr wyf hefyd yn ymwybodol bod gweithgor y Cynulliad ar drais yn y cartref yn awyddus i sicrhau ein bod yn mabwysiadu ymagwedd strategol ac yn datblygu mentrau newydd. Ni ellir cyflawni’r nodau hyn heb adnoddau newydd. Byddaf felly yn darparu £1 filiwn ychwanegol ar gyfer pob un o’r tair blynedd i fynd i’r afael â’r broblem ysgytwol hon.
Turning to other matters, there are several changes to these final draft proposals compared with the draft budget. I do not propose to list them all but, for example, we are providing an additional £200,000 per annum for three years to support the Wales Trades Union Congress’ learning services in support of the contribution it makes to widening access to lifelong learning. We are allocating over £1.4 million extra to the Coalfields Regeneration Trust in 2004-05 and 2005-06 and £1.5 million to the Forestry Commission next year in support of Objective 1 projects and related activities. There are also several other projects that do not necessarily feature in the budget itself, where I propose to make provision from end-year flexibility, or to return to them in my supplementary budget in March.
I droi at faterion eraill, mae llawer o newidiadau i’r cynigion drafft terfynol hyn o gymharu â’r gyllideb ddrafft. Nid yw’n fwriad gennyf eu rhestru i gyd ond, er enghraifft, yr ydym yn rhoi £200,000 y flwyddyn yn ychwanegol am dair blynedd i gefnogi gwasanaethau dysgu Cyngres yr Undebau Llafur Cymru i gefnogi’r cyfraniad a wna i ehangu mynediad i ddysgu gydol oes. Yr ydym yn dyrannu dros £1.4 miliwn yn ychwanegol i Ymddiriedolaeth Adfywio’r Meysydd Glo yn 2004–05 a 2005–06, a £1.5 miliwn i’r Comisiwn Coedwigaeth y flwyddyn nesaf i gefnogi cynlluniau Amcan 1 a gweithgareddau cysylltiedig. Ceir hefyd sawl prosiect arall nad ydynt o reidrwydd yn ymddangos yn y gyllideb ei hun, lle y bwriadaf wneud darpariaeth o’r hyblygrwydd diwedd blwyddyn, neu ddychwelyd atynt yn fy nghyllideb atodol ym mis Mawrth.
An example of this is the Environment, Planning and Transport Committee’s review of local biodiversity action plans. Another example is a joint working party with the Welsh Local Government Association on free access to local authority leisure centres for children and young people during school holidays. Assembly Members will recall that, in my draft budget, I announced the formation of the working group, which will report to Ministers before Christmas. In addition, possible financial implications arise from the Committee’s report on the Assembly’s obligations on biodiversity, which I will also address once that report is made available and I know the Minister’s views.
Enghraifft o hyn yw adolygiad Pwyllgor yr Amgylchedd, Cynllunio a Thrafnidiaeth ar gynlluniau gweithredu bioamrywiaeth. Enghraifft arall yw cyd-weithgor â Chymdeithas Llywodraeth Leol Cymru ar fynediad am ddim i ganolfannau hamdden awdurdodau lleol i blant a phobl ifanc yn ystod gwyliau ysgol. Bydd Aelodau’r Cynulliad yn cofio, fy mod yn fy nghyllideb ddrafft wedi cyhoeddi y byddai gweithgor yn cael ei ffurfio a fydd yn adrodd yn ôl i Weinidogion cyn y Nadolig. Yn ychwanegol, mae goblygiadau ariannol posibl yn codi o adroddiad y Pwyllgor ar oblygiadau’r Cynulliad ar fioamrywiaeth, y byddaf yn mynd i’r afael â hwy cyn gynted ag y bydd yr adroddiad ar gael a phan fyddaf yn gwybod barn y Gweinidogion.
On comments from Subject Committees, I emphasise that I have taken careful note of the Education and Lifelong Learning Committee’s representations on grants for education support and training and I will consider the financial implications that flow from the comprehensive review of GEST by March 2003 following further consideration of the programme by the Committee later this week. At this point, I add that there has been further Cabinet discussion on the Assembly’s location strategy since I included provision for this within the central administration main expenditure group in my draft budget. I am pleased to announce that we have identified a preferred site for the first of the new offices in Merthyr Tydfil. Work will begin during the coming financial year on the development of an office for around 300 Assembly staff. I expect the office to be ready for occupation by the end of 2004 and to be followed by similar developments in mid-west Wales and north Wales.
O ran sylwadau gan y Pwyllgorau Pwnc, pwysleisiaf fy mod wedi nodi’n fanwl sylwadau a wnaed gan y Pwyllgor Addysg a Dysgu Gydol Oes ar grantiau ar gyfer cymorth a hyfforddiant addysg a byddaf yn ystyried y goblygiadau ariannol sy’n llifo o’r adolygiad cynhwysfawr o GEST erbyn Mawrth 2003 yn dilyn ystyriaeth bellach o’r rhaglen gan y Pwyllgor yn ddiweddarach yr wythnos hon. Yn y fan hon, ychwanegaf y cynhaliwyd trafodaeth bellach yn y Cabinet ar strategaeth lleoliad y Cynulliad gan i mi gynnwys darpariaeth ar gyfer hyn o fewn prif grŵp gwariant y weinyddiaeth ganolog yn fy nghyllideb ddrafft. Mae’n bleser gennyf gyhoeddi ein bod wedi dynodi safle ddewisol ar gyfer y cyntaf o’r swyddfeydd newydd ym Merthyr Tudful. Bydd y gwaith yn dechrau yn ystod y flwyddyn ariannol nesaf ar ddatblygu swyddfeydd ar gyfer 300 o staff y Cynulliad. Disgwyliaf i’r swyddfa fod ar gael i’w defnyddio erbyn diwedd 2004 ac yn dilyn hyn ceir datblygiadau tebyg yng nghanol Gorllewin Cymru ac yn y Gogledd.
Another example of a project in this category is Clwyd Theatr Cymru. We are in discussions with Flintshire County Council and the Arts Council of Wales to find a mechanism for releasing the theatre from its debt to the local authority. This is proving an onerous and unfair financial burden on the local authority as well as potentially jeopardising the future of the theatre. The Assembly has an obligation to act in such circumstances where centres of national importance are concerned. The Minister for Culture, Sport and the Welsh Language and I will act on this once we are satisfied with the viability of the theatre’s revenue funding in the medium to long term.
Enghraifft arall o brosiect yn y categori hwn yw Clwyd Theatr Cymru. Yr ydym mewn trafodaethau gyda Chyngor Sir y Fflint a Chyngor Celfyddydau Cymru i ddod o hyd i ffordd o ryddhau’r theatr o’i dyled i’r awdurdod lleol. Mae hyn yn profi’n faich ariannol trwm ac annheg ar yr awdurdod lleol ac o bosibl yn peryglu dyfodol y theatr. Mae gan y Cynulliad ddyletswydd i weithredu mewn amgylchiadau o’r fath lle mae canolfannau o bwys cenedlaethol yn y fantol. Bydd y Gweinidog dros Ddiwylliant, Chwaraeon a’r Gymraeg a minnau yn gweithredu ar hyn pan fyddwn yn fodlon ar hyfywedd ariannu refeniw y theatr yn y tymor canolig i’r hirdymor.
I have also asked my officials to review the position on funding Assembly sponsored public bodies in relation to the implementation of equal pay for 2003-04 onwards. It has become clear that there are potentially significant differences across the full ranges of ASPBs in relation to the financial implications of implementing equal pay. We therefore need to review the position carefully to ensure that any allocation of additional resources is done on the basis of need and equity, taking full account of the efficiency gains that I expect ASPBs to realise.
Yr wyf hefyd wedi gofyn i’m swyddogion adolygu’r sefyllfa o ran ariannu cyrff cyhoeddus a noddir gan y Cynulliad mewn perthynas â gweithredu tâl cyfartal ar gyfer 2003–04 ac ymlaen. Daeth yn amlwg fod gwahaniaethau sylweddol posibl ar draws yr ystod lawn o GCNC mewn perthynas â goblygiadau ariannol gweithredu tâl cyfartal. Felly mae angen inni adolygu’r sefyllfa yn ofalus i sicrhau bod unrhyw ddyraniad o adnoddau ychwanegol i’w gyflwyno yn ôl angen a thegwch, gan roi ystyriaeth lwyr i’r buddiannau effeithlonrwydd y disgwyliaf i’r CCNC eu gwireddu.
I conclude by returning to the two major issues that have been raised during the budget planning round. On further education pay, the Minister for Education and Lifelong Learning announced on 24 October funding of £9 million to be made available for the next financial year. To avoid doubt, this sum will be ring-fenced within our budget for 2003-04. It will form part of the pay deal aimed at eliminating the lower points on the pay band and reducing the overall number of pay points that currently exist. The longer-term intention is to bring the pay of further education lecturers in Wales in line with the main pay scales of school teachers. That is in line with our previous commitments.
Deuaf i ben drwy ddychwelyd at ddau fater pwysig a godwyd yn ystod cylch cynllunio’r gyllideb. O ran addysg bellach, cyhoeddodd y Gweinidog dros Addysg a Dysgu Gydol Oes ar 24 Hydref y bydd £9 miliwn ar gael ar gyfer y flwyddyn ariannol nesaf. I osgoi amheuaeth, caiff y swm hwn ei glustnodi o fewn ein cyllideb ar gyfer 2003–04. Bydd yn rhan o’r cytundeb tâl sydd â’r nod o ddileu y pwyntiau isaf ar y band tâl a lleihau’r nifer cyffredinol o bwyntiau tâl sy’n bodoli ar hyn o bryd. Y bwriad tymor hwy yw cysoni tâl darlithwyr addysg bellach yng Nghymru â phrif raddfeydd tâl athrawon ysgol. Mae hyn yn unol â’n hymrwymiadau blaenorol.
I have also agreed, with the Minister for Health and Social Services, an additional package of capital expenditure for community hospitals, the ambulance trust and other projects that total some £11 million for 2003-04, nearly £21 million for 2004-05, and over £34 million for 2005-06. Jane Hutt will shortly announce full details of the schemes that will be funded, but the final budget proposal includes the necessary additional resources for all these projects.
Yr wyf hefyd wedi cytuno, gyda’r Gweinidog dros Iechyd a Gwasanaethau Cymdeithasol, ar becyn ychwanegol o wariant cyfalaf ar gyfer ysbytai cymunedol, yr ymddiriedolaeth ambiwlans a phrosiectau eraill sy’n gwneud cyfanswm o tua £11 miliwn ar gyfer 2003–04, bron £21 miliwn ar gyfer 2004–05, a thros £34 miliwn ar gyfer 2005–06. Bydd Jane Hutt yn cyhoeddi manylion llawn y cynlluniau a gaiff eu hariannu yn fuan, ond mae cynigion y gyllideb derfynol yn cynnwys yr adnoddau ychwanegol angenrheidiol ar gyfer yr holl brosiectau hyn.
To sum up, I will return to the core message of my speech on 15 October. This budget is about investment in effective public services and delivering results through reform. The two go hand in hand and underpin the Government’s long-term strategy to build a sustainable future for Wales, combining prosperity with social justice. I trust that the Assembly will support this final budget.
I gloi, dychwelaf at neges graidd fy araith ar 15 Hydref. Mae a wnelo’r gyllideb hon â buddsoddi mewn gwasanaethau cyhoeddus effeithiol a chyflwyno canlyniadau drwy ddiwygio. Mae’r ddau yn mynd law yn llaw ac yn ategu strategaeth hirdymor y Llywodraeth i adeiladu dyfodol cynaliadwy i Gymru, gan gyfuno ffyniant gyda chyfiawnder cymdeithasol. Hyderaf y bydd y Cynulliad yn cefnogi’r gyllideb derfynol hon.
Daeth y Llywydd i’r Gadair am 3.26 p.m.
The Presiding Officer took the Chair at 3.26 p.m.
During the debate on the draft budget, Plaid Cymru criticised the lack of clarity in the presentation of the budget. We said that the lack of clarity would make it difficult to scrutinise how budgets were being used and would allow Ministers to announce and re-announce money in the run up to the election in May. In other words, that it was obviously an election budget. That has proved true because, despite repeated requests from colleagues and myself, this final budget is not any clearer. As I said in the previous debate, it is the duty of an open government to provide details that enable proper scrutiny of its work.
Yn ystod y ddadl ar y gyllideb ddrafft, beirniadodd Plaid Cymru y diffyg eglurder wrth gyflwyno’r gyllideb. Dywedasom y byddai’r diffyg eglurder yn ei gwneud yn anodd craffu ar y modd y defnyddid cyllidebau a byddai’n caniatáu i Weinidogion gyhoeddi ac ailgyhoeddi arian yn y cyfnod yn arwain at yr etholiad ym Mai. Mewn geiriau eraill, ei bod yn amlwg yn gyllideb etholiad. Profodd hynny’n gywir oherwydd er gwaethaf ceisiadau mynych gan gyd-Aelodau a minnau, nid yw’r gyllideb derfynol hon fymryn eglurach. Fel y dywedais yn y ddadl flaenorol, mae dyletswydd ar lywodraeth agored i ddarparu manylion fel y gellir craffu’n briodol ar ei gwaith.
Too many of these budget lines remain vague and ambiguous. Following the draft budget, we were told to expect a series of announcements from each Minister, clarifying their budgets. Were these announcements made to Committees, where due scrutiny could take place? No. Over the last fortnight, in typical old Labour style, Ministers have made a series of announcements about multi-million pound budgets in their portfolios, not to the Assembly or even to Committees, but to the press. Our call for clarity has not been heeded.
Mae llawer gormod o linellau’r gyllideb hon yn niwlog ac amhendant. Yn dilyn y gyllideb ddrafft dywedwyd wrthym y gallem ddisgwyl cyfres o gyhoeddiadau gan bob Gweinidog, yn esbonio’u cyllidebau. A wnaed y cyhoeddiadau hyn i’r Pwyllgorau, lle y gellid craffu’n briodol? Naddo. Dros y pythefnos diwethaf, yn arddull nodweddiadol yr hen Lafur, gwnaeth Gweinidogion nifer o gyhoeddiadau am gyllidebau gwerth miliynau ar filiynau o bunnoedd yn eu portffolios, nid i’r Cynulliad, na hyd yn oed i’r Pwyllgorau, ond i’r wasg. Ni chymerwyd sylw o’n galwad am eglurder.
Plaid Cymru also called for new money to be made available to develop detox and rehabilitation facilities to treat drug users. One reason why we voted against that budget was the lack of new money in that regard. I am pleased that the Government has given in to pressure from Plaid Cymru and has changed its plans. The additional £18 million for drug and alcohol initiatives should have been included in the draft budget. It was not, but thanks to Geraint Davies’s work on behalf of his constituents in the Rhondda in highlighting this issue as a Government failure, the Government has now come forward with a new package of money.
Galwodd Plaid Cymru am arian newydd i ddatblygu cyfleusterau dadwenwyno ac ailsefydlu i drin defnyddwyr cyffuriau. Un rheswm pam y gwnaethom bleidleisio yn erbyn y gyllideb honno oedd y diffyg arian newydd o ran hynny. Yr wyf yn falch bod y Llywodraeth wedi ildio i bwysau gan Blaid Cymru a’i bod wedi newid ei chynlluniau. Dylid bod wedi cynnwys yr £18 miliwn ychwanegol ar gyfer mentrau cyffuriau ac alcohol yn y gyllideb ddrafft. Ni chafodd ei chynnwys, ond diolch i Geraint Davies a’i waith ar ran ei etholwyr yn y Rhondda yn tynnu sylw at y mater hwn fel methiant ar ran y Llywodraeth, mae’r Llywodraeth yn awr wedi cyflwyno pecyn newydd o arian.
Furthermore, £3 million was announced last week for administrative support in schools, which was included in the draft budget. However, since then, there has been a further and rather cynical cut of £1.6 million to teacher restructuring costs. That is, it is a £1.6 million cut if you use New Labour counting methods. The true figure is probably £4.6 million. It depends on how the figures are calculated and presented. It is certainly true that £4.6 million has disappeared from teacher restructuring; it is being masked as a lesser cut by adding £3 million for administrative support. However, the money for administrative support appeared in the draft budget, so where has that £4.6 million gone?
At hynny, cyhoeddwyd £3 miliwn yr wythnos diwethaf ar gyfer cymorth gweinyddol mewn ysgolion, a gafodd ei gynnwys yn y gyllideb ddrafft. Fodd bynnag, ers hynny, bu toriad pellach a braidd yn sinigaidd o £1.6 miliwn i gostau ailsdrwythuro athrawon. Hynny yw, mae’n doriad o £1.6 miliwn os defnyddiwch ddulliau cyfrif Llafur Newydd. Mae’r ffigur gwirioneddol fwy na thebyg yn £4.6 miliwn. Mae’n dibynnu sut y caiff y ffigurau eu cyfrif a’u cyflwyno. Mae’n berffaith wir bod £4.6 miliwn wedi diflannu o ailsdrwythuro athrawon, caiff ei guddio fel toriad llai drwy ychwanegu £3 miliwn ar gyfer cymorth gweinyddol. Fodd bynnag, ymddangosodd yr arian ar gyfer cymorth gweinyddol yn y gyllideb ddrafft, felly i ble’r aeth y £4.6 miliwn?
No, your Minister did not give way, so neither will I. [ASSEMBLY MEMBERS: ‘Oh’]
Na wnaf, ni wnaeth eich Gweinidog ildio, felly ni wnaf innau chwaith. [AELODAU’R CYNULLIAD: ‘O!’]
Dafydd Elis-Thomas The Presiding Officer spoken in English p. 45
Dafydd Elis-Thomas Y Llywydd siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 45
Order. Janet Ryder is not giving way.
Trefn. Nid yw Janet Ryder yn ildio.
This is New Labour counting, and the type of New Labour counting that led the Labour-dominated Treasury Committee in Westminster to detect and criticise the accounting trickery of Gordon Brown. It said that spending figures should never be presented in such an opaque fashion again. That lesson has not been learnt in Wales by this Liberal-led Labour administration.
Dull cyfrif Llafur Newydd yw hwn, a’r math o gyfrif Llafur Newydd a arweiniodd Pwyllgor y Trysorlys yn San Steffan a reolir gan Lafur i ganfod a beirniadu dichellwaith cyfrifo Gordon Brown. Dywedodd na ddylai ffigurau gwariant byth eto gael eu cyflwyno mewn dull mor aneglur. Ni ddysgwyd y wers hon yng Nghymru gan y weinyddiaeth Lafur hon a arweinir gan y Rhyddfrydwyr.
The Minister for Economic Development yesterday announced £260 million for an innovation action plan. However, in answer to a question from Dafydd Wigley, that decreased to £25 million of new money. Gordon Brown infamously produced a phoney total by rolling up the annual increases so that the first year rise was counted three times and the second year’s rise twice. Look at the baseline figures and annual predicted changes in this budget and you will see that this Minister went to the same school of accountancy. That tactic, once identified, led to a great deal of cynicism and suspicion. It is sad that an administration that prides itself on being open and accountable should choose to follow the same path. It is sad, but not surprising, because, after all, this is Labour—old or New.
Cyhoeddodd y Gweinidog dros Ddatblygu Economaidd £260 miliwn ddoe ar gyfer cynllun gweithredu arloesol. Fodd bynnag, mewn ateb i gwestiwn gan Dafydd Wigley gostyngodd hynny i £25 miliwn o arian newydd. Yn warthus, cynhyrchodd Gordon Brown gyfanswm ffug drwy godi’r cynnydd blynyddol fel bod cynnydd y flwyddyn gyntaf yn cael ei gyfrif deirgwaith a chynnydd yr ail flwyddyn ddwy waith. Edrychwch ar y ffigurau gwaelodlin a’r newidiadau blynyddol a ragwelir yn y gyllideb hon ac fe welwch fod y Gweinidog hwn wedi mynd i’r un ysgol gyfrifyddiaeth. Arweiniodd y dacteg hon, unwaith y cafodd ei nodi, at gryn sinigiaeth a drwgdybiaeth. Trueni bod gweinyddiaeth sy’n ymfalchïo mewn bod yn agored ac atebol yn dewis dilyn yr un llwybr. Mae’n drueni, ond nid yw’n syndod, oherwydd, wedi’r cyfan dyma yw Llafur—hen neu Newydd.
Plaid Cymru highlighted one other major policy area where it felt that new money should be made available: housing. I asked if there would be extra money to create better homes for people in Wales; to develop a new approach for providing homes for older people; to tackle the mountain of repairs; and to develop new schemes to help young people in areas where they cannot afford to buy their own homes. New money is needed to build new, quality rented accommodation to replace housing that is lost through the right-to-buy scheme. Again, the answer was ‘no’.
Tynnodd Plaid Cymru sylw at un maes polisi pwysig arall lle y teimlodd y dylai arian newydd fod ar gael: tai. Gofynnais a fyddai arian ychwanegol ar gael i greu gwell cartrefi i bobl Cymru; i ddatblygu ymagwedd newydd tuag at ddarparu cartrefi i’r henoed; i fynd i’r afael a’r tomen o waith atgyweirio; ac i ddatblygu cynlluniau newydd i gynorthwyo pobl ifanc mewn ardaloedd lle na allant fforddio prynu eu tai eu hunain. Mae angen arian newydd i greu cartrefi ar rent newydd o safon yn lle tai sy’n cael eu colli drwy’r cynllun hawl i brynu. Unwaith eto, yr ateb oedd ‘na’.
Only last week, the Minister refused to acknowledge that a housing crisis exists in many communities. She has washed her hands of the situation, has left it to local government to find a solution, and has said that it already has the necessary finances. She has refused to acknowledge that the situation is grave and requires the Assembly to show true leadership.
Dim ond yr wythnos diwethaf, gwrthododd y Gweinidog gydnabod bod argyfwng tai yn bodoli mewn llawer cymuned. Mae hi wedi golchi’u dwylo o’r sefyllfa, wedi ei gadael hi i lywodraeth leol ddod o hyd i ateb, ac wedi dweud bod yr arian angenrheidiol ganddo eisoes. Mae wedi gwrthod cydnabod bod y sefyllfa yn ddifrifol a bod yn rhaid i’r Cynulliad ddangos gwir arweiniad.
The overall spend on housing services will reduce over the next three years, from £507 million to £471 million by 2006. The need for investment in affordable homes has never been greater.
Bydd y gwariant cyffredinol ar wasanaethau tai yn gostwng dros y tair blynedd nesaf, o £507 miliwn i £471 miliwn erbyn 2006. Ni fu’r angen am fuddsoddiad mewn cartrefi fforddiadwy erioed yn fwy.
Will you give way?
A ildiwch?
No. In the foreword to the Assembly’s housing strategy, ‘Better Homes for People in Wales’, the Minister wrote:
Na wnaf. Yn y rhagair i strategaeth tai’r Cynulliad, ‘Cartrefi Gwell i Bobl Cymru’, ysgrifennodd y Gweinidog:
‘The call for additional funding in order to realise our aspirations is heard’.
‘Nid yw’r alwad am gyllid ychwanegol i wireddu ein gobeithion yn syrthio ar glustiau byddar’.
However, the November issue of Cartref, the housing associations magazine, comments that the call is:
Fodd bynnag, gwna rhifyn Tachwedd o Cartref, cylchgrawn y cymdeithasau tai, y sylw fod yr alwad:
‘heard, perhaps, but obviously not heeded’.
yn cael ei chlywed, efallai, ond mae’n amlwg na wrandawyd arni.
It is obvious that providing people with a decent home is not one of the Minister’s priorities. However, giving the Secretary of State for Wales an extra £1 million is. In the debate on the draft budget I asked whether this Government is using—
Mae’n amlwg nad yw darparu cartrefi o safon i bobl yn un o flaenoriaethau’r Gweinidog. Fodd bynnag, mae rhoi £1 filiwn ychwanegol i Ysgrifennydd Gwladol Cymru yn flaenoriaeth. Yn y ddadl ar y gyllideb ddrafft gofynnais a oedd y Llywodraeth hon yn defnyddio—
Dafydd Elis-Thomas The Presiding Officer spoken in English p. 46
Dafydd Elis-Thomas Y Llywydd siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 46
Order. Your time is up.
Trefn. Mae eich amser ar ben.
Well, follow that. I welcome the Minister’s budget. Despite that churlish and predictable response from Plaid Cymru, this is good news for Wales. No matter how hard Plaid Cymru tries to denigrate it, it is a budget for growth. Many organisations throughout Wales will receive funding as a result of this budget, and I am certain that they will welcome it.
Wel, beth gallaf ei ddweud. Croesawaf gyllideb y Gweinidog. Er gwaethaf yr ymateb crintachlyd a rhagweladwy gan Blaid Cymru, mae hwn yn newyddion da i Gymru. Waeth faint bydd Plaid Cymru yn brwydro i’w dilorni, mae’n gyllideb ar gyfer tŵf. Bydd llawer o sefydliadau ledled Cymru yn derbyn arian o ganlyniad i’r gyllideb hon, ac yr wyf yn siŵr y byddant yn ei chroesawu.
Minister, the announcement today that gave me particular pleasure was that on Clwyd Theatr Cymru, which is, I am pleased to acknowledge, being supported by the Minister for Culture, Sport and the Welsh Language, Jenny Randerson. I welcome the decision to pay off the theatre’s debt, which largely resulted from factors beyond its control. The debt has been a millstone around the theatre’s neck for a long time and has inhibited its ability to develop an effective programme on behalf of the people of Wales. It is important that this money is paid to the theatre, perhaps administered by the Arts Council of Wales. The money should be paid directly to the theatre through the normal arts council routes. It can then be seen to be a matter for the theatre to deal with repaying the debt it owes to Flintshire County Council. This action will wipe the slate clean for the theatre. However, in the short term, it is important that this action should not reduce the revenue budget stream that the theatre currently enjoys. It is important to allow the theatre to make a fresh start and respond to the growing demands of what is, in effect, a national institution.
Weinidog, y cyhoeddiad a roddodd fwyaf o bleser i mi heddiw oedd yr un am Clwyd Theatr Cymru, sydd, yr wyf yn falch i’w gydnabod, yn cael ei chefnogi gan y Gweinidog dros Ddiwylliant Chwaraeon a’r Gymraeg, Jenny Randerson. Croesawaf y penderfyniad i dalu dyled y theatr sydd wedi deillio yn bennaf o ffactorau y tu hwnt i’w rheolaeth. Bu’r ddyled hon fel maen melin am wddf y theatr ers amser maith, ac mae wedi llesteirio ei gallu i ddatblygu rhaglen effeithiol ar ran pobl Cymru. Mae’n bwysig bod yr arian hwn yn cael ei dalu i’r theatr, wedi ei weinyddu efallai gan Gyngor Celfyddydau Cymru. Dylai’r arian gael ei dalu yn uniongyrchol i’r theatr drwy sianelau arferol cyngor y celfyddydau. Yna gellir ei ystyried yn fater i’r theatr ymdrin ag ad-dalu’r ddyled sydd arni i Gyngor Sir y Fflint. Bydd y gweithredu hyn yn gyfle i’r theatr ddechrau o’r newydd. Fodd bynnag, yn y tymor byr, mae’n bwysig nad yw’r weithred hon yn lleihau ffrwd y gyllideb refeniw y mae’r theatr yn ei mwynhau ar hyn o bryd. Mae’n bwysig caniatáu i’r theatr ddechrau o’r newydd ac ymateb i’r galw cynyddol ar yr hyn sydd, i bob pwrpas, yn sefydliad cenedlaethol.
However, there are pressures on Flintshire County Council, as it makes a disproportionate contribution to the theatre’s budget. I ask the respective Ministers to give early consideration to how to relieve Flintshire County Council of some of those funding responsibilities. I realise that that may not be possible in the short term, but it is not unreasonable to expect a funding package to sustain the theatre in 2004-05. I seek assurance from Ministers that they will do all that they can to ensure stability in the theatre’s finances in future to address some of the issues that concern Flintshire County Council. The announcement is good news and I appreciate the commitment of the Finance Minister and the Minister for Culture in recognising the theatre’s important contribution to cultural life in Wales.
Fodd bynnag, mae pwysau ar Gyngor Sir y Fflint gan ei fod yn gwneud cyfraniad anghyfartal i gyllideb y theatr. Gofynnaf i’r Gweinidogion perthnasol roi ystyriaeth fuan i’r modd y gellir rhyddhau Cyngor Sir y Fflint o rai o’r cyfrifoldebau ariannu hynny. Sylweddolaf nad yw hyn yn bosibl efallai yn y tymor byr, ond nid yw’n afresymol disgwyl pecyn ariannu i gynnal y theatr yn 2004–05. Ceisiaf sicrwydd gan y Gweinidogion y gwnânt bopeth yn eu gallu i sicrhau sefydlogrwydd yn sefyllfa ariannol y theatr yn y dyfodol i fynd i’r afael â rhai o’r problemau sy’n pryderu Cyngor Sir y Fflint. Mae’r cyhoeddiad yn newyddion da a gwerthfawrogaf ymrwymiad y Gweinidog Cyllid a’r Gweinidog dros Ddiwylliant wrth gydnabod cyfraniad pwysig y theatr i fywyd diwylliannol Cymru.
In her draft budget proposals last month, the Finance Minister announced that health was her highest priority. She has reiterated that today. Health was the ostensible winner in the draft budget as it was allocated £110 million over and above the original expenditure. To criticise expenditure on health is similar to criticising motherhood and apple pie; it is just not done. However, additional expenditure on health is not an end in itself, which it is in danger of becoming under this administration. The NHS structural changes in Wales have been almost universally condemned, not only by opposition parties in the Assembly, but, perhaps even more importantly since the draft budget was announced, by Mr Bryan Mitchell, who is responsible for overseeing the restructuring process. His memo to the First Minister makes it clear that restructuring is likely to result in administrative chaos, that a reformed service may not work properly and that the costs of the exercise are still unknown. It is certain that there will be many more bureaucrats and probably no extra medical staff.
Yng nghynigion ei chyllideb ddrafft fis diwethaf, dywedodd y Gweinidog Cyllid mai iechyd oedd ei blaenoriaeth uchaf. Ailadroddodd hynny heddiw. Iechyd i bob golwg oedd yr enillydd yn y gyllideb ddrafft gan fod £110 miliwn yn fwy na’r gwariant gwreiddiol wedi ei ddyrannu iddo. Mae beirniadu gwariant ar iechyd yn debyg i feirniadu bod yn fam a tharten afalau; mae’n rhywbeth nad ydych yn ei wneud. Fodd bynnag, nid yw gwariant ychwanegol ar iechyd yn ddiben ynddo’i hun, sef rhywbeth y mae perygl iddo fod o dan y weinyddiaeth hon. Beirniadwyd newidiadau sdrwythurol y GIG yng Nghymru gan bawb bron, nid yn unig gan y gwrthbleidiau yn y Cynulliad, ond efallai’n bwysicach ers i’r gyllideb ddrafft gael ei chyhoeddi, gan Mr Bryan Mitchell, sy’n gyfrifol am oruchwylio’r broses ailsdrwythuro. Mae ei femo i’r Prif Weinidog yn nodi’n glir fod ailsdrwythuro yn debyg o arwain at anhrefn weinyddol, na fydd gwasanaeth diwygiedig efallai’n gweithio’n iawn ac nad yw costau’r ymarfer yn hysbys o hyd. Mae’n sicr y bydd llawer mwy o fiwrocratiaid ond dim staff meddygol ychwanegol siŵr o fod.
Last month’s waiting list figures—covering the quietest period of the year—make disturbing reading. Against that background, the Finance Minister’s invitation to Derek Wanless to review the sorry state of the NHS in Wales—
Mae rhestrau aros fis diwethaf—sy’n cwmpasu cyfnod tawelaf y flwyddyn—yn peri pryder. Yn erbyn y cefndir hwnnw, mae gwahoddiad y Gweinidog Cyllid i Derek Wanless adolygu cyflwr truenus y GIG yng Nghymru—
Is David aware that the Minister gave a clear commitment at the Health and Social Services Committee meeting that the management costs of restructuring would not be greater than the present costs of the health service and that the process will be monitored by the National Audit Office? You seem to be making a great deal of fuss over nothing.
A yw David yn ymwybodol bod y Gweinidog wedi rhoi addewid eglur yng nghyfarfod y Pwyllgor Iechyd a Gwasanaethau Cymdeithasol na fyddai’r costau ailsdrwythuro yn fwy na chostau presennol y gwasanaeth iechyd ac y caiff y broses ei monitro gan y Swyddfa Archwilio Genedlaethol? Mae’n ymddangos eich bod yn gwneud mor a mynydd o ddim.
I am aware of the Minister’s commitment, but Derek Wanless has been asked to review the state of the NHS; that is a wise decision. However, against that background, I question the wisdom of simply pumping more money into restructuring and shoring up what is clearly a declining service without getting the fundamentals right first.
Yr wyf yn ymwybodol o addewid y Gweinidog, ond gofynnwyd i Derek Wanless adolygu cyflwr y GIG; mae hynny’n benderfyniad doeth. Fodd bynnag, yn erbyn y cefndir hwnnw, yr wyf yn amau doethineb gwario rhagor o arian ar ailsdrwythuro a chynnal yr hyn sy’n amlwg yn wasanaeth sy’n dirywio heb gael y sylfeini yn iawn yn gyntaf.
I repeat the concern that I voiced last month about the depletion in reserves. The draft budget noted that these had been reduced from £141 million to £90 million. The final budget sees them reduced further to £72 million. In her statement last month—
Ailadroddaf y pryder a fynegais fis diwethaf am y gostyngiad yn yr arian wrth gefn. Nododd y gyllideb ddrafft eu bod wedi eu gostwng o £141 miliwn i £90 miliwn. Yn ôl y gyllideb derfynol, fe’u gostyngir ymhellach i £72 miliwn. Yn ei datganiad fis diwethaf—
David is obviously new to the Assembly. If he had checked last year’s budget, he would have noticed that there was only £24 million in reserves. Therefore, they have been increased and not decreased. Does he accept those figures?
Mae David yn amlwg yn newydd i’r Cynulliad. Pe bai wedi gwirio cyllideb y llynedd, byddai wedi sylwi mai £24 miliwn yn unig oedd yn y cronfeydd wrth gefn. Felly, maent wedi cynyddu ac nid gostwng. A yw’n derbyn y ffigurau hynny?
There has been a reduction in the spending line, which is clear from the figures before us.
Bu gostyngiad yn y llinell wario, sy’n amlwg o’r ffigurau sydd ger ein bron.
The Minister also made a commitment that no good project requiring structural funding
Gwnaeth y Gweinidog ymrwymiad hefyd na fyddai unrhyw brosiect da yr oedd angen arian sdrwythurol arno yn
‘will fail for lack of either match funding or public expenditure survey cover’.
‘methu oherwydd diffyg cyllid cyfatebol neu arian o’r arolwg gwariant cyhoeddus’.
She makes it clear that she is prepared to have further recourse to the reserves if necessary. The current level of reserves does not provide adequately for a major contingency such as foot and mouth disease, jobs losses such as those at Corus or—heaven forbid—a combination of similar disasters. It also takes no account of the possibility of the UK Government reducing funding in future comprehensive spending reviews given the likelihood of lower than forecast economic growth, which might pull the rug from under Assembly spending plans.
Gwna hi’n eglur ei bod yn barod i droi eto at y cronfeydd wrth gefn os bydd angen. Nid yw lefel gyfredol y cronfeydd wrth gefn yn darparu’n ddigonol ar gyfer digwyddiad annisgwyl o bwys megis clwy’r traed a’r genau, colli swyddi fel y rheini yn Corus neu—y nefoedd a’n gwaredo—gyfuniad o drychinebau tebyg. Hefyd, nid yw’n ystyried y posibilrwydd y bydd Llywodraeth y DU yn gostwng y cyllid mewn adolygiadau cynhwysfawr o wariant yn y dyfodol o gofio bod twf economaidd llai na’r disgwyl yn debygol, a allai danseilio cynlluniau gwariant y Cynulliad.
I welcome the additional spending on the drug and alcohol initiative, which is desperately needed. I am glad that the Minister has decided to make that extra funding available. I hope that extra funding will also become available for north Wales, where, as you have acknowledged, there is a severe problem, not only in Rhyl, but also in areas such as Colwyn Bay and Holyhead.
Croesawaf y gwariant ychwanegol ar y fenter cyffuriau ac alcohol, y mae angen mawr amdano. Yr wyf yn falch bod y Gweinidog wedi penderfynu sicrhau bod yr arian ychwanegol hwnnw ar gael. Gobeithiaf y bydd arian ychwanegol hefyd ar gael i’r Gogledd, lle y mae problem ddifrifol, fel y gwnaethoch gydnabod, nid yn unig yn y Rhyl, ond hefyd mewn ardaloedd megis Bae Colwyn a Chaergybi.
There is an apparent reduction from £61 million to £15 million in the spending line for elderly and long-term care. However, I am sure that there is a simple explanation for that. Will the Minister indicate whether or not the private sector will benefit from that? Will she also explain the additional £1 million—almost 28 per cent expenditure—in the budget for the office of the Secretary of State for Wales? That information has been announced since the appointment of the new Secretary of State. Given that he is also the Minister for Europe, I would have thought that there could have been some economies of scale.
Ymddengys bod gostyngiad o £61 miliwn i £15 miliwn yn y llinell wario ar gyfer gofal i’r henoed a gofal hirdymor. Fodd bynnag, yr wyf yn siŵr bod esboniad syml i hynny. A wnaiff y Gweinidog ddangos a fydd y sector preifat yn elwa ar hynny ai peidio? A wnaiff hi hefyd esbonio yr £1 filiwn ychwanegol—bron 28 y cant o wariant—yng nghyllideb swyddfa Ysgrifennydd Gwladol Cymru? Cyhoeddwyd y wybodaeth honno ers penodiad y Gweinidog Gwladol newydd. O gofio ei fod hefyd yn Weinidog dros Ewrop, byddwn yn tybio y byddai rhywfaint o arbedion maint.
We discussed the key issues of this budget when we debated the draft budget three weeks ago. I said then that the key themes were tackling poverty, deprivation and ill health. Those themes have been reinforced in the final tables before us today, with a welcome additional £18 million over three years, which will be dedicated to tackling drug and alcohol abuse. The important issue in respect of this money is that it has been allocated following a thorough review of current provision in Wales.
Trafodwyd prif faterion y gyllideb hon gennym pan gawsom y ddadl ar y gyllideb ddrafft dair wythnos yn ôl. Dywedais bryd hynny mai’r prif themâu oedd mynd i’r afael â thlodi, amddifadedd ac afiechyd. Ategwyd y themâu hynny yn y tablau terfynol ger ein bron heddiw, gyda £18 miliwn ychwanegol, dros dair blynedd, sydd i’w groesawu, a fydd yn cael ei roi’n llwyr i fynd i’r afael â chamddefnyddio cyffuriau ac alcohol. Y mater pwysig o ran yr arian hwn yw iddo gael ei ddyrannu yn dilyn adolygiad drwyadl o’r ddarpariaeth gyfredol yng Nghymru.
We are familiar with the regular stories of tragic death from substance misuse. I have even visited schools in which teachers wrestle with, among many other problems, the impact that parents’ heroin addiction has on the education of their children. I am aware of the shortage of dedicated detoxification beds and the need to invest in community detoxification facilities.
Yr ydym yn gyfarwydd â’r straeon cyson am farwolaethau trasig o ganlyniad i gamddefnyddio sylweddau. Yr wyf hyd yn oed wedi ymweld ag ysgolion lle mae athrawon yn ymgodymu, ymhlith llawer o broblemau eraill, â’r effaith y mae rhieni sy’n gaeth i heroin yn ei chael ar addysg eu plant. Yr wyf yn ymwybodol o’r prinder gwelyau dadwenwyno a glustnodwyd a’r angen i fuddsoddi mewn cyfleusterau dadwenwyno cymunedol.
There has been lack of leadership on this issue for some time; that is why I welcome the way in which the Minister has so quickly got to grips with the many problems surrounding this issue. She has ensured that money be made available not only to plug gaps, but to effectively provide the extra capacity that is needed to reduce future tragic drug-related deaths and to get more people into treatment more quickly.
Bu diffyg arweinyddiaeth ar y mater hwn am beth amser; dyna pam yr wyf yn croesawu’r modd y mae’r Gweinidog wedi mynd i’r afael mor gyflym â’r problemau lu sy’n gysylltiedig â’r mater hwn. Mae wedi sicrhau y bydd arian yn cael ei roi nid yn unig i lanw bylchau, ond i ddarparu’r capasiti ychwanegol sydd ei angen yn effeithiol er mwyn lleihau nifer y marwolaethau trasig sy’n gysylltiedig â chyffuriau yn y dyfodol a rhoi triniaeth yn gynt i fwy o bobl.
I also welcome the money to tackle drug abuse. Do you think that more money would be available for detoxification and rehabilitation if a commitment had been made to fund Operation Tarian back in July? Instead of the Home Office fully funding that scheme, we are picking up the bill. As a consequence, other services and the people of Wales are suffering.
Yr wyf innau hefyd yn croesawu’r arian i fynd i’r afael â chamddefnyddio cyffuriau. A gredwch y byddai rhagor o arian ar gael ar gyfer dadwenwyno ac ailsefydlu pe bai ymrwymiad wedi ei roi i ariannu Ymgyrch Tarian yn ôl ym mis Gorffennaf? Yn lle bod y Swyddfa Gartref yn ariannu’r cynllun hwnnw’n llawn, yr ydym ni yn talu’r bil. O ganlyniad, mae gwasanaethau eraill a phobl Cymru yn dioddef.
You just cannot win, can you? Clearly, the commitment to Operation Tarian is important; it is important that we tackle the causes of drug abuse and the people who deal in drugs. I welcome the £500,000 for each of the next three years that the Home Office is putting into that. I also welcome the Minister’s commitment to try to supplement it, and to support the police if necessary. The fact that we are working with detoxification facilities and with the police to tackle drug-related crime sends a message across Wales that not only will we not tolerate drug abuse, but that we are prepared to treat its victims as people who have health problems, ensuring that they have proper treatment facilities.
Ni allwch ennill, allwch chi? Mae’n amlwg bod ymrwymiad Ymgyrch Tarian yn bwysig; mae’n bwysig ein bod yn mynd i’r afael ag achosion o gamddefnyddio cyffuriau a’r bobl sy’n gwerthu cyffuriau. Croesawaf y £500,000 ar gyfer pob un o’r tair blynedd nesaf y mae’r Swyddfa Gartref yn ei roi at hwnnw. Hefyd, croesawaf ymrwymiad y Gweinidog i geisio ei ategu ac i gynorthwyo’r heddlu os bydd angen. Mae’r ffaith ein bod yn gweithio gyda chyfleusterau dadwenwyno a chyda’r heddlu i fynd i’r afael â throseddau sy’n gysylltiedig â chyffuriau yn cyfleu neges ledled Cymru nid yn unig na wnawn oddef camddefnyddio cyffuriau ond ein bod yn barod i drin y rhai sy’n dioddef o’i herwydd fel pobl sydd â phroblemau iechyd, gan sicrhau y cânt gyfleusterau triniaeth addas.
Before I was interrupted, I was about to say that I welcome the fact that the money is to be spent throughout Wales, particularly in the north, and that it goes hand in hand with money for the police. We should note that there is also £2.6 million in the budget for safer communities. The amount of money that is being provided for ex-prisoners is in line with the recommendations of the Homelessness Commission. We must help ex-prisoners to avoid re-offending and ensure they are not only rehoused and given jobs, but that their drug problems are dealt with when they return to the community.
Cyn i rywun dorri ar fy nhraws, yr oeddwn ar fin dweud fy mod yn croesawu’r ffaith y caiff arian ei wario ledled Cymru, yn arbennig yn y Gogledd, a’i fod yn mynd law yn llaw gydag arian i’r heddlu. Dylem nodi fod £2.6 miliwn hefyd yn y gyllideb ar gyfer cymunedau diogelach. Mae’r swm o arian a ddarperir ar gyfer cyn-garcharorion yn unol ag argymhellion Comisiwn y Digartref. Mae’n rhaid inni gynorthwyo cyn-garcharorion i beidio ag aildroseddu a sicrhau nid yn unig eu bod yn cael eu hailgartrefu ac yn cael swyddi, ond yr ymdrinnir â’u problemau cyffuriau pan ddychwelant i’r gymuned.
I welcome the ring-fencing of the £9 million given to ELWa for further education pay, the extra money for school buildings and the £60 million for the Assembly learning grant, all of which underlines the Government’s commitment to education and the proper resourcing of the sector.
Croesawaf y £9 miliwn a glustnodwyd i’w roi i ELWa ar gyfer cyflogau addysg bellach, yr arian ychwanegol ar gyfer adeiladau ysgolion a’r £60 miliwn ar gyfer grant dysgu’r Cynulliad y maent i gyd yn tanlinellu ymrwymiad y Llywodraeth i addysg a rhoi’r adnoddau priodol i’r sector.
The extra money for health is also welcome, and demonstrates how the Assembly Government seeks to put long-term resources into building the capacity of the national health service in Wales so as to meet the health needs of the people of Wales.
Mae’r arian ychwanegol ar gyfer iechyd i’w groesawu hefyd, ac mae’n dangos sut y mae Llywodraeth y Cynulliad yn ceisio sicrhau adnoddau hirdymor ar gyfer cynyddu capasiti y gwasanaeth iechyd gwladol yng Nghymru er mwyn diwallu anghenion iechyd pobl Cymru.
As Janet Ryder did not take my intervention earlier, I will now mention her line on housing. She underlined the bottom line of the housing budget when she said that there has been a reduction, but she failed to note that she had included the money that had been put in for housing rent subsidies, which, of course, is demand-led managed expenditure. Provision has been made so that, if money is needed for that, the Treasury will provide it. The figures that Janet gave are false and do not support her argument.
Gan na dderbyniodd Janet Ryder fy ymyriad yn gynharach, gwnaf sylw ar ei hagwedd ar dai yn awr. Tanlinellodd waelodlin y gyllideb dai pan ddywedodd fod gostyngiad wedi bod, ond methodd â nodi ei bod wedi cynnwys yr arian a neilltuwyd ar gyfer cymorthdaliadau rhent tai sydd, wrth gwrs, yn wariant wedi ei reoli a gaiff ei lywio yn ôl y galw. Gwnaed darpariaeth ar gyfer hyn ac os bydd angen arian ar gyfer hynny, bydd y Trysorlys yn ei ddarparu. Mae’r ffigurau a roddodd Janet yn rhai ffug ac nid ydynt yn ategu ei dadl.
Having listened to David Ian Jones and having read the letter in The Western Mail yesterday, I notice that some confusion exists about the reserves. The reserves have grown from £24 million last year to £72 million this year, while extra investments of over £250 million have been put into key services in addition to any end-year flexibility that does not appear in the tables. That is a major accomplishment, for which the Minister should be congratulated. The Government has already dealt with crises such as the Corus job losses, foot and mouth disease and flooding, with lesser reserves. The Conservatives are clearly still in John Redwood mode and would rather store the money and give it back than spend it on key services.
Ar ôl gwrando ar David Ian Jones a darllen y llythyr yn The Western Mail ddoe, sylwaf fod peth dryswch yn bodoli ynghylch y cronfeydd wrth gefn. Mae’r cronfeydd wrth gefn wedi tyfu o £24 miliwn y llynedd i £72 miliwn eleni, tra bod buddsoddiadau ychwanegol o dros £250 miliwn wedi eu rhoi i wasanaethau allweddol yn ychwanegol at unrhyw hyblygrwydd diwedd blwyddyn nad yw’n ymddangos yn y tablau. Mae hynny’n gryn gamp y dylid llongyfarch y Gweinidog arni. Mae’r Llywodraeth eisoes wedi ymdrin ag argyfyngau megis colli swyddi Corus, clwy traed a’r genau a llifogydd, gyda llai o gronfeydd wrth gefn. Mae’r Ceidwadwyr yn gweithredu fel John Redwood o hyd a byddai’n well ganddynt storio’r arian a’i roi’n ôl yn hytrach na’i wario ar wasanaethau allweddol.
In the time available, I will concentrate on two aspects of the health budget—elderly and long-term care and the GP contract. In the original draft, the budget line for elderly and long-term care was to be increased by £12.4 million. The budget is now being reduced by £33.8 million. Will the Minister clarify that? Where has the money gone? It may have been sucked in somewhere else, but I cannot see where. Given the crisis in care home provision, it is a matter of vital importance to many of our constituents.
Yn yr amser sydd ar gael, canolbwyntiaf ar ddwy agwedd ar y gyllideb iechyd—gofal i’r henoed a gofal hirdymor a’r cytundeb meddygon teulu. Yn y drafft gwreiddiol, yr oedd y llinell gyllideb i’w chynyddu £12.4 miliwn. Mae’r gyllideb yn awr yn cael ei gostwng £33.8 miliwn. A wnaiff y Gweinidog esbonio hynny? I ble’r aeth yr arian? Efallai iddo gael ei sugno i fewn rywle arall, ond ni allaf weld ymhle. O gofio’r argyfwng yn y ddarpariaeth gofal cartref, mae’n fater o bwys mawr i lawer o’n hetholwyr.
You referred to care homes. Do you accept that decreasing the budget endangers councils such as Carmarthenshire, which is trying to keep elderly care homes within the county’s responsibility, and that that could lead to the closure of care homes?
Gwnaethoch gyfeirio at gartrefi gofal. A ydych yn derbyn bod gostwng y gyllideb yn peryglu cynghorau megis Caerfyrddin sydd yn ceisio cadw cartrefi gofal i’r henoed o fewn cyfrifoldeb y sir, ac y gallai hynny arwain at gau cartrefi gofal?
Yes. We have seen care homes closing around the country in recent months. A crisis in care home provision remains. With around 1,000 people occupying hospital beds who should be in beds elsewhere, and bearing in mind other crises in home care services, it is vital that elderly and long-term care receives the priority that it deserves. Addressing waiting lists means addressing bed capacity issues across the board. Social care is inextricably linked to the health service. The big idea in the NHS should be to increase the capacity to treat more people—more beds and more staff—not to restructure the NHS for the sixth time in 13 years. We need definite planned increases in bed numbers and nursing numbers and a coherent long-term strategy to address bed capacity across all sectors, including residential, local authority—
Ydwyf. Gwelsom gartrefi gofal yn cau ledled y wlad yn y misoedd diwethaf. Mae argyfwng o hyd yn y ddarpariaeth ar gyfer cartrefi gofal. Gyda tua 1,000 o bobl mewn gwelyau ysbyty a ddylai fod mewn gwelyau mewn mannau eraill a chan gofio argyfyngau eraill mewn gwasanaethau gofal cartref, mae’n hollbwysig bod gofal i’r henoed a gofal hirdymor yn cael y flaenoriaeth a haedda. Mae mynd i’r afael â rhestrau aros yn golygu mynd i’r afael a materion capasiti gwelyau ar draws y bwrdd. Mae cyswllt anorfod rhwng gofal cymdeithasol â’r gwasanaeth iechyd. Yn y GIG, y syniad mawr yw y dylid cynyddu’r capasiti i drin mwy o bobl—mwy o welyau a mwy o staff—nid i ailsdrwythuro’r GIG am y chweched tro mewn 13 mlynedd. Mae angen cynyddu nifer y gwelyau a nifer y nyrsys mewn ffordd bendant ac wedi ei gynllunio a chreu strategaeth gydlynol hirdymor i fynd i’r afael â chapasiti gwelyau ar draws pob sector, gan gynnwys y sector preswyl, awdurdod lleol—
Are you aware that some staff in the University Hospital of Wales work 22-hour shifts, have two hours off, and are then asked to work again?
A ydych yn ymwybodol bod rhai o’r staff yn Ysbyty Prifysgol Cymru yn gweithio sifftiau 22 awr, yn cael dwy awr yn rhydd, ac yna gofynnir iddynt weithio eto?
I was not aware of that fact, but everybody is now.
Nid oeddwn yn ymwybodol o’r ffaith honno, ond gŵyr pawb yn awr.
We need a coherent strategy to address bed capacity across all sectors—residential homes, private nursing homes and the NHS. It must be about increasing capacity, not about restructuring. Where are the restructuring costs in this budget anyway? I do not see a dedicated budget line for that, and we are still awaiting a dedicated budget line for the ambulance trust.
Mae angen strategaeth gydlynol arnom i fynd i’r afael â chapasiti gwelyau ar draws pob sector—cartrefi preswyl, cartrefi nyrsio preifat a’r GIG. Rhaid ymdrin â chynyddu capasiti, nid ag ailsdrwythuro. Ble mae’r costau ailsdrwythuro yn y gyllideb hon beth bynnag? Ni welaf linell gyllideb benodedig ar gyfer hynny, ac yr ydym yn dal i ddisgwyl am linell gyllideb benodedig ar gyfer yr ymddiriedolaeth ambiwlans.
Finally, the new GP contract kicks in next April. I am grateful to the Minister for her recent clarification that £20 million has been set aside for this. However, experts predict that the colossal impact—
I gloi, daw’r cytundeb meddygon teulu newydd i rym fis Ebrill nesaf. Yr wyf yn ddiolchgar i’r Gweinidog am ei heglurhad diweddar fod £20 miliwn wedi ei neilltuo ar gyfer hyn. Fodd bynnag, mae arbenigwyr yn rhagweld y bydd yr effaith anferthol—
Dafydd Elis-Thomas The Presiding Officer spoken in English p. 54
Dafydd Elis-Thomas Y Llywydd siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 54
Order. Your time is up.
Trefn. Daeth eich amser i ben.
This budget shows the partnership between Westminster and the Assembly continuing to deliver for the people of Wales. Once again, it is up to the Assembly to show that it can use these extra resources wisely, effectively and responsibly to benefit the people of Wales, in accordance with our declared priorities. People across Wales will see the benefits of this increased funding. It will improve public services, economic development, community regeneration and so on. Our strategies are about social justice, and we must ensure that mainstream funding is applied to support particular initiatives, such as Communities First, that primarily deal with community regeneration.
Dengys y gyllideb hon fod y bartneriaeth rhwng San Steffan a’r Cynulliad yn parhau i ddarparu ar gyfer pobl Cymru. Unwaith eto, rhaid i’r Cynulliad ddangos y gall ddefnyddio yr adnoddau ychwanegol hyn yn ddarbodus, yn effeithiol a chyfrifol fel eu bod o fudd i bobl Cymru, yn unol â’n blaenoriaethau hysbys. Bydd pobl ledled Cymru yn gweld buddiannau’r arian ychwanegol hwn. Bydd yn gwella gwasanaethau cyhoeddus, datblygu economaidd, adfywiad cymunedol ac yn y blaen. Mae a wnelo ein strategaethau â chyfiawnder cymdeithasol, a rhaid inni sicrhau bod yr arian prif ffrwd yn cael ei gymhwyso i gefnogi mentrau arbennig, megis Cymunedau yn Gyntaf, sy’n ymdrin yn bennaf ag adfywiad cymunedol.
Much else is happening in Newport. A Gwent clinical school is proposed, to build on the long established expertise at the Royal Gwent Hospital, Newport. This, again, will benefit Newport, but it will also benefit Wales. I want to see speedy movement on capital provision so that contracts can be arranged and the building acquired quickly given next autumn’s considerable increase in student numbers. Also, I support the extra funding for the Gwent Police. I met with Gwent police at the beginning of this week, and they were supportive of Edwina’s announcement—they realised how important and effective it was. These are many of the aspects that stress the importance and the value of this current budget.
Mae llawer o bethau eraill yn digwydd yng Nghasnewydd. Cynigir sefydlu ysgol glinigol yng Ngwent, i ddatblygu’r arbenigedd hirsefydlog yn Ysbyty Brenhinol Gwent, Casnewydd. Bydd hyn, unwaith eto, o fudd i Gasnewydd, ond bydd o fudd i Gymru hefyd. Yr wyf am i gyfalaf gael ei ddarparu’n gyflym fel y gellir trefnu contractau a phrynu’r adeilad yn gyflym o ystyried y cynnydd yn y nifer o fyfyrwyr yn ystod yr hydref y flwyddyn nesaf. Yn ogystal, cefnogaf yr arian ychwanegol ar gyfer Heddlu Gwent. Cyfarfûm â swyddogion heddlu Gwent ar ddechrau’r wythnos hon, ac yr oeddent yn gefnogol iawn i gyhoeddiad Edwina—gwnaethant sylweddoli pa mor bwysig ac effeithiol ydoedd. Dyma lawer o’r agweddau sy’n pwysleisio pwysigrwydd a gwerth y gyllideb bresennol hon.
We all know that there is a limited amount of money in the pot. My concern is not how much money is spent overall, but how it is spent—or rather, misspent. We know about the £30 million for a new Assembly building, the £20 million for a monorail and the millions for embassies, gay outreach workers, Gypsy welfare officers and any other politically correct cause that my colleagues may wish to mention. However, I am particularly concerned at the latest revelation that ex-prisoners will be bribed with taxpayers’ money to stay out of trouble. I well recall that, only last week, a Member chastised me on the subject of people who commit acts of violence based on race or sexuality, and I agreed with her that such acts are despicable. However, I have a solution that I hope will find favour with colleagues. People who carry out such acts of violence should be locked up in prison and kept there until they have learnt their lesson. Under the terms of this budget, Members are voting for such people to be locked away for as short a period as possible and, on release, given all sorts of money and handouts that could be better spent elsewhere in Wales. Give us a budget that recognises the serious problems in Wales with the health service, education and the lack of transport. Stop spending on this politically correct nonsense.
Gŵyr pob un ohonom fod arian cyfyngedig ar gael. Ni phryderaf ynghylch faint o arian a gaiff ei wario yn gyffredinol, ond sut y caiff ei wario—neu ei gamwario, yn hytrach. Gwyddom am y £30 miliwn ar gyfer adeilad newydd y Cynulliad, yr £20 miliwn ar gyfer trên un gledren a’r miliynau ar gyfer llysgenadaethau, gweithwyr allgyrch hoyw, swyddogion lles y Sipsiwn ac unrhyw achos arall sy’n wleidyddol gywir y bydd fy nghyd-Aelodau am eu crybwyll o bosibl. Fodd bynnag, pryderaf yn benodol am y datgeliad diweddaraf y caiff cyn-garcharorion eu llwgrwobrwyo ag arian trethdalwyr i beidio â mynd i helynt. Cofiaf yn dda mai dim ond yr wythnos diwethaf y cefais fy nghosbi gan Aelod mewn perthynas â phobl sy’n cyflawni trais ar sail hil neu rywioldeb, a chytunais â hi fod gweithredoedd o’r fath yn ffiaidd. Fodd bynnag, mae ateb gennyf a gobeithio y bydd fy nghyd-Aelodau yn ei gefnogi. Dylid cloi pobl sy’n cyflawni trais o’r fath yn y carchar gan eu cadw yno hyd nes eu bod wedi dysgu eu gwers. O dan delerau’r gyllideb hon, mae’r Aelodau yn pleidleisio dros gadw pobl o’r fath yn y carchar am gyn lleied o amser â phosibl, gan roi pob math o arian iddynt pan gânt eu rhyddhau y gellid ei wario’n well rywle arall yng Nghymru. Rhowch gyllideb inni sy’n cydnabod y problemau difrifol yng Nghymru o ran y gwasanaeth iechyd, addysg a diffyg trafnidiaeth. Peidiwch â gwario arian ar y nonsens gwleidyddol gywir hwn.
I welcome the budget, which delivers on our priorities throughout Wales. The large increases to improve the national health service, the extra money for our schools and the new money to help communities become safer all show that this budget is focused on Labour’s priorities of putting public services first. The increases are possible because of the close partnership between Welsh Labour in the Assembly and a UK Labour Government, which has ensured that Wales now has its biggest budget ever.
Croesawaf y gyllideb, sy’n gwneud gwahaniaeth o ran ein blaenoriaethau ledled Cymru. Mae’r cynnydd sylweddol i wella’r gwasanaeth iechyd gwladol, yr arian ychwanegol ar gyfer ein hysgolion a’r arian newydd i helpu cymunedau i fod yn fwy diogel oll yn dangos bod y gyllideb hon yn canolbwyntio ar flaenoriaethau’r Blaid Lafur, sef rhoi gwasanaethau cyhoeddus yn gyntaf. Mae’r cynnydd yn bosibl oherwydd y bartneriaeth agos rhwng Llafur Cymru yn y Cynulliad a Llywodraeth Lafur y DU, sydd wedi sicrhau bod gan Gymru ei chyllideb fwyaf erioed.
On the themes of the Finance Minister’s statement, I warmly welcome the £88,000 that she has awarded to Rhyl’s policing priority area. This will help to address the problem of drugs and associated crimes in the Rhyl area. I also welcome the additional money for anti-drug and alcohol measures across Wales. This money will help the police to target middle-range dealers and provide paths out of drug dependency for local youngsters.
O ran themâu datganiad y Gweinidog Cyllid, croesawaf yr £88,000 a roddodd i ardal flaenoriaeth plismona’r Rhyl. Bydd hyn yn helpu i ymdrin â’r broblem o gyffuriau a throseddau sy’n gysylltiedig â hwy yn ardal y Rhyl. Croesawaf hefyd yr arian ychwanegol ar gyfer mesurau gwrth-gyffuriau a gwrth-alcohol ledled Cymru. Bydd yr arian hwn yn helpu’r heddlu i dargedu gwerthwyr ystod ganolig a bydd yn helpu pobl ifanc leol i ddianc rhag dibyniaeth ar gyffuriau.
Returning to the policing priority area of Rhyl’s west end, it will now be easier for the partnership in that area to tackle some of the issues raised by the Crime Concern report. It will ensure that the police can concentrate on and deal with anti-social behaviour in those areas. They can now tackle the abandoned cars, the graffiti, truancy and other anti-social behaviour problems that the local community rightly regards as important to quality of life and a sense of security. It shows the practical effect of the policing priority status in terms of a rigorous identification of the problems in Rhyl, and an evidence-based approach to pull in the resources required for effective action. The community of the west end of Rhyl will be heartened by the Minister’s announcement and by her generosity. Like the budget as a whole, this funding demonstrates the Labour-led Assembly’s commitment to building stronger communities that work in partnership with a strong Government and modern, decent public services, to build a better future for the people of Wales.
Gan ddychwelyd at ardal flaenoriaeth plismona ochr orllewinol y Rhyl, bydd bellach yn haws i’r bartneriaeth yn yr ardal honno fynd i’r afael â rhai o’r materion a godwyd gan adroddiad Crime Concern. Bydd yn sicrhau y gall yr heddlu ganolbwyntio ar yr ymddygiad gwrthgymdeithasol yn yr ardaloedd hynny a delio ag ef. Gallant bellach fynd i’r afael â phroblem ceir a gaiff eu gadael, y graffiti, triwantiaeth a’r problemau eraill o ran ymddygiad gwrthgymdeithasol y mae’r gymuned leol yn eu hystyried yn bwysig i ansawdd bywyd ac ymdeimlad o ddiogelwch, a hynny’n briodol. Dengys effaith ymarferol statws blaenoriaeth plismona o ran nodi’r problemau yn y Rhyl yn drwyadl, ac ymagwedd yn seiliedig ar dystiolaeth i gael yr adnoddau angenrheidiol er mwyn gweithredu’n effeithiol. Caiff cymuned ochr orllewinol y Rhyl ei chalonogi gan gyhoeddiad y Gweinidog a’i haelioni. Fel y gyllideb gyfan, dengys yr arian hwn ymrwymiad y Cynulliad o dan arweiniad y Blaid Lafur i ddatblygu cymunedau cryfach sy’n gweithio mewn partneriaeth â Llywodraeth gref a gwasanaethau cyhoeddus modern da, i ddatblygu dyfodol gwell i bobl Cymru.
I begin by disassociating myself wholeheartedly from the remarks that David Davies made a moment ago. It is about time that David learnt that he will not get the attention he wants by gratuitously attacking groups in the community that are not here to defend themselves. The press and even his right-wing constituency will become bored by it. I believe that most Members would support the relatively modest amounts of money in this budget that are being made available to combat discrimination against those who have suffered centuries of discrimination.
Dechreuaf drwy fy natgysylltu fy hun yn llwyr oddi wrth y sylwadau a wnaethpwyd gan David Davies funud yn ôl. Mae’n hen bryd i David ddysgu na chaiff y sylw a ddymuna drwy ymosod heb reswm ar grwpiau yn y gymuned nad ydynt yma i amddiffyn eu hunain. Bydd hyn yn diflasu’r wasg a’i etholaeth asgell dde hyd yn oed. Credaf y byddai’r rhan fwyaf o’r Aelodau yn cefnogi’r symiau arian cymharol fach yn y gyllideb hon a neilltuir i wrthsefyll camwahaniaethu yn erbyn y rhai sydd wedi dioddef canrifoedd o gamwahaniaethu.
David Davies a gododd—
David Davies rose—
I will not give way, David; I have heard enough from you this afternoon, and I do not suppose that I am alone in that.
Nid ildiaf, David; yr wyf wedi clywed digon gennych y prynhawn yma, ac ni chredaf mai fi yw’r unig un sy’n meddwl felly.
I will refer briefly to three strands in the education budget. The Minister has already mentioned the grants for educational support and training, and I am heartened to hear that this will be kept under review. However, cutting £2,850,000, as proposed in the draft and the final budget, concerns the Education and Lifelong Learning Committee. Can the Minister confirm whether the Minister for Education and Lifelong Learning asked her to restore this budget line after the Committee asked her to do so? If the Finance Minister decided not to restore that line, will she explain her reasons, and will she commit herself to restoring the money in full, if recommended in the forthcoming review?
Cyfeiriaf yn fras at dri llinyn y gyllideb addysg. Mae’r Gweinidog eisoes wedi crybwyll y grantiau ar gyfer cymorth a hyfforddiant addysgol, ac mae’r ffaith y caiff hyn ei adolygu’n barhaus yn fy nghalonogi. Fodd bynnag, mae’r Pwyllgor Addysg a Dysgu Gydol Oes yn pryderu ynghylch y gostyngiad o £2,850,000, fel y cynigiwyd yn y gyllideb ddrafft a’r gyllideb derfynol. A all y Gweinidog gadarnhau a ofynnodd y Gweinidog dros Addysg a Dysgu Gydol Oes iddi adfer y llinell gyllideb hon ar ôl i’r Pwyllgor ofyn iddi wneud hynny? Os penderfynodd y Gweinidog Cyllid beidio ag adfer y llinell honno, a eglura ei rhesymau, ac a ymrwyma i adfer yr arian yn llawn, os caiff ei argymell yn yr adolygiad arfaethedig?
The Minister also referred to the additional funding in the ELWa budget, which is to be targeted at closing the pay gap between further education and school staff. This is welcome, but I am concerned that this money could get swallowed up in routine additional pay costs, such as inflation. I understand that it is to be ring-fenced, and I am pleased that the Minister has reiterated that today. However, if it is ring-fenced for pay costs, and routine pay costs then eat it up, we will be no better off. I would welcome the Minister’s comments on that.
Cyfeiriodd y Gweinidog hefyd at yr arian ychwanegol yng nghyllideb ELWa, i’w dargedu i leihau’r bwlch rhwng cyflog staff addysg bellach a staff ysgolion. Croesewir hyn, ond pryderaf y gallai’r arian hwn gael ei lyncu mewn costau cyflogau ychwanegol arferol, megis chwyddiant. Deallaf y bwriedir ei glustnodi, ac mae’n dda gennyf fod y Gweinidog wedi ailadrodd hynny heddiw. Fodd bynnag, os caiff ei glustnodi i dalu costau cyflogau a’i defnyddio wedyn i dalu costau cyflogau arferol, ni fyddwn yn well ein byd. Byddwn yn croesawu sylwadau’r Gweinidog ar hynny.
Finally, the Minister will be aware of, but has not commented on, the fact that there is still no transparent budget under the education heading for delivering Government action in response to the education recommendations of the Culture Committee’s report into the future of the Welsh language. Grave concerns were raised in Committee about this. Will the Minister explain this continuing serious gap? In Committee, the Minister for Education and Lifelong Learning tried to explain this away as mainstreaming, saying that that work would be built into all budgets. This would be acceptable, but the Finance Minister is as aware as I am that there is a world of difference between mainstreaming and inactivity and invisibility. Will the Minister respond to that?
I gloi, bydd y Gweinidog yn ymwybodol o’r ffaith nad oes cyllideb dryloyw o hyd o dan addysg ar gyfer cyflwyno camau’r Llywodraeth mewn ymateb i argymhellion adroddiad y Pwyllgor Diwydiant i ddyfodol yr iaith Gymraeg o ran addysg, ond ni chynigiodd sylwadau arno. Codwyd pryderon difrifol am hyn yng nghyfarfod y Pwyllgor. A eglura’r Gweinidog y bwlch difrifol parhaus hwn? Yng nghyfarfod y Pwyllgor, ceisiodd y Gweinidog dros Addysg a Dysgu Gydol Oes honni mai prif-ffrydio oedd hyn, gan nodi y byddai’r gwaith hwnnw yn rhan o bob cyllideb. Byddai hynny’n dderbyniol, ond mae’r Gweinidog Cyllid mor ymwybodol â minnau bod gwahaniaeth sylweddol rhwng prif-ffrydio a diffyg gweithredu ac anweledigrwydd. A ymateba’r Gweinidog i hynny?
I thank the Minister for her welcome and effective budget. It addresses the main problem that we all want to see solved, namely, how we improve our public services. There is no doubt that this is a mammoth task. We all want a reduction in poverty, deprivation and ill health in Wales. My Conservative colleagues may criticise this budget, but as the party of low taxation, the Conservatives were responsible for the under-resourcing of public services. Let us not forget that.
Diolchaf i’r Gweinidog am ei chyllideb effeithiol sydd i’w chroesawu. Mae’n ymdrin â’r brif broblem y mae pob un ohonom am iddi gael ei datrys, sef, sut y gwellwn ein gwasanaethau cyhoeddus. Yn ddiamau, mae hon yn dasg anferth. Mae pob un ohonom am weld llai o dlodi, amddifadedd ac afiechyd yng Nghymru. Gall fy nghyd-Aelodau Ceidwadol feirniadu’r gyllideb hon, ond fel y blaid sydd o blaid trethiant isel, yr oedd y Ceidwadwyr yn gyfrifol am beidio â rhoi digon o adnoddau i wasanaethau cyhoeddus. Ni ddylem anghofio hynny.
I will briefly address some of the challenges faced by rural Wales in relation to this debate. As yet, I have heard little mention of how extra funding has gone into rural Wales. I believe that people in rural areas would welcome many aspects of this budget, but they would also make some challenges. I was listening intently when you mentioned that the Forestry Commission has received £1.5 million. I would welcome more details on that funding because, as you know, I believe that the biomass industry in Wales has great potential in that it would provide employment as well as fulfilling the requirements of sustainable development in Wales. However, I cannot find the funding line in the rural budget for running the Forestry Commission, despite the fact that we now have full responsibility for it.
Ymdriniaf yn fras â rhai o’r heriau a wynebir gan Gymru wledig mewn perthynas â’r ddadl hon. Hyd yma, nid wyf wedi clywed llawer am sut y gwariwyd arian ychwanegol ar Gymru wledig. Credaf y byddai pobl mewn ardaloedd gwledig yn croesawu llawer o agweddau ar y gyllideb hon, ond byddent hefyd yn ei herio. Yr oeddwn yn gwrando yn ofalus pan wnaethoch grybwyll bod y Comisiwn Coedwigaeth wedi cael £1.5 miliwn. Byddwn yn croesawu mwy o fanylion am yr arian hwnnw gan fy mod yn credu, fel y gwyddoch, fod potensial sylweddol gan y diwydiant bio-más yng Nghymru o ran darparu cyflogaeth yn ogystal â bodloni gofynion datblygu cynaliadwy yng Nghymru. Fodd bynnag, ni allaf ddod o hyd i’r llinell ariannu yn y gyllideb wledig ar gyfer rhedeg y Comisiwn Coedwigaeth, er bod gennym gyfrifoldeb llwyr drosto erbyn hyn.
The demands of rural recovery have been well met but I ask the Minister, as I have asked the First Minister and the Deputy First Minister and Minister for Rural Development and Wales Abroad, to reconsider the Tir Mynydd funding. Tir Mynydd is a socio-economic payment that is vital for the hill farmers that farm 80 per cent of Wales. It has been suggested that this payment should be reduced. It would not be appropriate to reduce this vital support payment to hill farmers at this time. We must re-examine this and ensure that the current level of spending on Tir Mynydd is maintained.
Bodlonwyd gofynion gwaith adfer gwledig yn dda ond gofynnaf i’r Gweinidog, fel y gofynnais i’r Prif Weinidog a’r Dirprwy Brif Weinidog a’r Gweinidog dros Ddatblygu Gwledig a Chymru Dramor, ailystyried arian Tir Mynydd. Taliad economaidd-gymdeithasol yw Tir Mynydd sy’n hanfodol i’r ffermwyr mynydd sy’n ffermio 80 y cant o Gymru. Awgrymwyd y dylid lleihau’r taliad hwn. Ni fyddai’n briodol lleihau’r taliad cymorth hanfodol hwn i ffermwyr mynydd ar hyn o bryd. Rhaid inni ailarchwilio hyn a sicrhau bod y gwariant presennol ar Dir Mynydd yn parhau.
Gareth Jones a gododd—
Gareth Jones rose—
I do not have time to give way. This should be guaranteed until at least the implementation of the mid-term review of the common agricultural policy. Returning to the issue of long-term funding, more thought should be given to a budget line for our citizens advice bureaux in Wales. The Government carries a great social responsibility and the citizens advice bureaux have done tremendous work for the voluntary sector. I know that the Minister is aware of that work, but there are issues of long-term funding that should be addressed.
Nid oes amser gennyf i ildio. Dylid sicrhau hyn o leiaf tan ar ôl i’r adolygiad canol tymor o’r polisi amaethyddol cyffredinol gael ei weithredu. Gan ddychwelyd at fater arian hirdymor, dylid rhoi rhagor o ystyriaeth i linell gyllideb ar gyfer ein canolfannau cynghori yng Nghymru. Mae gan y Llywodraeth lawer o gyfrifoldeb cymdeithasol ac mae’r canolfannau cynghori wedi gwneud gwaith aruthrol ar gyfer y sector gwirfoddol. Gwn fod y Gweinidog yn ymwybodol o’r gwaith hwnnw, ond mae materion ynghylch arian hirdymor y dylid ymdrin â hwy.
Having considered the budget, my big worry about my industry—and I am sure that the Minister will be pleased to know this—is that no amount of money will sort out the agricultural industry. However, we must ensure that the money in the budget is being spent. I am worried that the money is not being spent by this Assembly Government. I ask for consideration to be given in the budget in terms of investing extra resources into facilities to process the difficult European funding grants that are available and the funding that comes directly from the Assembly.
Ar ôl ystyried y gyllideb, yr hyn sy’n peri’r pryder mwyaf imi am fy niwydiant—ac yr wyf yn siŵr y bydd y Gweinidog yn falch o wybod hyn—yw na fydd unrhyw swm o arian yn datrys problemau’r diwydiant amaethyddol. Fodd bynnag, rhaid inni sicrhau y caiff yr arian yn y gyllideb ei wario. Pryderaf na chaiff yr arian ei wario gan y Llywodraeth Cynulliad hon. O ran y gyllideb, gofynnaf inni ystyried buddsoddi adnoddau ychwanegol mewn cyfleusterau i brosesu grantiau cyllid Ewropeaidd anodd sydd ar gael a’r arian sy’n dod yn uniongyrchol o’r Cynulliad.
I do not decry the fact that the Minister for Rural Development does not understand the industry. I understand that he should have advisers to explain it to him. I understand that many of the delays in the correspondence are not the result of a lack of facilities to answer these letters, but of the fact that he does not know how to answer them because of technical problems involved.
Ni fychanaf y ffaith nad yw’r Gweinidog dros Ddatblygu Gwledig yn deall y diwydiant. Deallaf y dylai fod ganddo gynghorwyr i’w egluro iddo. Deallaf nad diffyg cyfleusterau i ateb y llythyrau hyn sy’n gyfrifol am lawer o’r oedi yn yr ohebiaeth, ond y ffaith na ŵyr sut i’w hateb oherwydd y problemau technegol sy’n gysylltiedig â hynny.
We should be investing extra money into training and I have addressed this matter before in several amendments. Agriculture is a difficult subject to understand. We have cut training down to the bare minimum. Young people, who could man divisional offices, are not being trained. We now have problems that we have never seen before. I have already highlighted one of those today, namely the mess that we have got into with the sheep annual premium scheme. That is a vital system for supporting sheep farmers. I listened to the Minister state that the Welsh farmer would be better off because he or she would be paid in one sum. The Minister does not realise that the SAPS payment has always been paid in three instalments, starting in July and followed by a second payment in October. Those payments would have included the supplementary payments of the hill livestock compensatory allowance on less-favoured land.
Dylem fuddsoddi arian ychwanegol mewn hyfforddiant ac yr wyf wedi ymdrin â’r mater hwn o’r blaen mewn nifer o welliannau. Mae amaethyddiaeth yn bwnc anodd i’w ddeall. Yr ydym wedi lleihau hyfforddiant i’r lleiaf posibl. Ni chaiff pobl ifanc, a allai redeg swyddfeydd rhanbarthol, eu hyfforddi. Mae gennym broblemau yn awr nas gwelwyd erioed o’r blaen. Yr wyf eisoes wedi amlygu un o’r rhain heddiw, sef y llanastr sydd gennym o ran y cynllun premiwm blynyddol defaid. Dyna system hanfodol i gefnogi ffermwyr defaid. Gwrandewais ar y Gweinidog yn nodi y byddai ffermwyr o Gymru ar eu hennill oherwydd y caent eu talu mewn un swm. Ni sylweddola’r Gweinidog fod y taliad cynllun premiwm blynyddol defaid bob amser wedi ei dalu mewn tair rhan, yn dechrau ym mis Gorffennaf a chyda’r ail daliad ym mis Hydref. Byddai’r taliadau hynny wedi cynnwys taliadau atodol y lwfans iawndal da byw tir uchel ar dir llai ffafriol.
He now states that farmers are better off because they will get one payment. However, in an article in the Daily Post, one of his officials states that the window is being extended until April. I ask for assurance from someone in the Assembly that this matter will be addressed. The extensification scheme is a mess. There were six check dates, on what was a vital form of funding. However, when farmers missed one or two of those check dates, the whole scheme was disallowed until one farmer had included a recorded delivery note. That is why you are now paying out, not from the European fund, but the Assembly’s fund. I am not asking for more money, but for farmers to get the funds to which they are entitled.
Mae bellach yn nodi bod ffermwyr ar eu hennill oherwydd y cânt un taliad. Fodd bynnag, mewn erthygl yn y Daily Post, mae un o’i swyddogion yn nodi y caiff y cyfnod ei ymestyn tan fis Ebrill. Gofynnaf am sicrwydd gan rywun yn y Cynulliad yr ymdrinnir â’r mater hwn. Mae’r cynllun dad-ddwysáu yn llanastr. Cafwyd chwe dyddiad prawf, ar yr hyn a oedd yn ffurf hanfodol ar ariannu. Fodd bynnag, pan fethodd ffermwyr un neu ddau o’r dyddiadau prawf hynny, gwaharddwyd y cynllun cyfan hyd nes i un ffermwr gynnwys nodyn dosbarthiad cofnodedig. Dyna pam yr ydych yn talu yn awr o gronfa’r Cynulliad, yn hytrach na’r gronfa Ewropeaidd. Nid wyf yn gofyn am fwy o arian, ond i’r ffermwyr gael yr arian y mae’r hawl ganddynt iddo.
I am a great admirer of the Finance Minister. However, Mick Bates asks a great deal of her and shows a lack of faith in his colleague, the Minister for Rural Development, who has failed dismally to do anything about the Tir Mynydd scheme and is now asking the Finance Minister to resolve the problem for him. That is asking a great deal from the budget lines as they stand. Mick Bates should, perhaps, have spoken to the Minister for Rural Development before raising this with the Finance Minister.
Yr wyf yn edmygu’r Gweinidog Cyllid. Fodd bynnag, mae Mick Bates yn mynnu llawer ganddi ac yn dangos diffyg ymddiriedaeth yn ei gyd-Aelod, y Gweinidog dros Ddatblygu Gwledig, sydd wedi methu’n llwyr â gwneud unrhyw beth am y cynllun Tir Mynydd ac sydd bellach yn gofyn i’r Gweinidog Cyllid ddatrys y broblem ar ei ran. Mae hynny’n mynnu llawer gan linellau’r gyllideb fel y maent ar hyn o bryd. Efallai y dylai Mick Bates fod wedi siarad â’r Gweinidog dros Ddatblygu Gwledig cyn codi’r mater gyda’r Gweinidog Cyllid.
As I understand the situation, there is £20 million in the budget line for the general practitioner contracts. Does the Minister accept what several experts state, that, if you were to consider the full ramifications of introducing the GP contract, that figure could be as high as £280 million? How does the Minister expect the health service to deal with the £260 million shortfall? Is money available in the budget to address that shortfall?
Fel y deallaf innau’r sefyllfa, mae £20 miliwn yn y llinell gyllideb ar gyfer contractau meddygon teulu. A dderbynia’r Gweinidog yr hyn a nodir gan nifer o arbenigwyr, sef, pe ystyrid canlyniadau llawn cyflwyno’r contract ar gyfer meddygon teulu, y gallai’r ffigur hwnnw fod mor uchel â £280 miliwn? Sut mae’r Gweinidog yn disgwyl i’r gwasanaeth iechyd ddelio â’r diffyg o £260 miliwn? A oes arian ar gael yn y gyllideb i ymdrin â’r diffyg hwnnw?
Fel llefarydd Plaid Cymru ar ddatblygu cynaliadwy—pwnc y mae gennych ddiddordeb mawr ynddo—a ydych yn rhannu fy mhryder fod llai o arian yn y gyllideb hon ar gyfer materion hollbwysig atal llifogydd ac amddiffyn arfordirol? Dylem ystyried goblygiadau hynny o ddifrif.
As the Plaid Cymru spokesperson on sustainable development—a subject that is of great interest to you—do you share my concern that there is less money in this budget for the key areas of flood prevention and coastal protection? We should seriously consider the implications of that.
Rhannaf y pryder hwnnw. Mae peidio â buddsoddi mewn atal trychinebau yn dacteg beryglus, gan ei bod yn llawer drutach delio â’r canlyniadau. Edrychaf ymlaen at ymateb y Gweinidog Cyllid i’r pwynt hwnnw.
I share that concern. Not investing in disaster prevention is a dangerous tactic, as addressing the consequences is much more expensive. I look forward to hearing the Finance Minister’s response to that point.
Trof yn awr at y gyllideb addysg. Yn ei adolygiad o’r Gymraeg mewn addysg, nododd y Pwyllgor Addysg a Dysgu Gydol Oes bod angen aildrefnu’r system er mwyn sicrhau safle’r Gymraeg, a buddsoddi’n helaeth mewn addysg feithrin er mwyn creu continwwm addysgiadol, gan fwydo oddi ar hynny yn yr ysgolion cynradd ac uwchradd ac mewn addysg bellach ac uwch. Ni allaf weld arian ar gyfer hynny yn y gyllideb. Dim ond drwy’r gyfundrefn addysg y gallwn gynyddu’r nifer o siaradwyr Cymraeg ac felly gynyddu’r canran o bobl Cymru sy’n medru’r iaith, ac y mae angen buddsoddiad helaeth i sicrhau hynny. A wnaeth y Gweinidog dros Addysg a Dysgu Gydol Oes gais arbennig i’r Gweinidog Cyllid i gynnwys swm o arian penodol ar gyfer y gwaith hwnnw yn y gyllideb?
I now turn to the education budget. In its review of the Welsh language in education, the Education and Lifelong Learning Committee noted that the system needs to be reorganised to ensure the status of the Welsh language, and that substantial investment is required in early years education in order to create an educational continuum, which would feed into primary and secondary education, as well as further and higher education. There seems to be no money for that in the budget. The education system is our only hope if we are to increase the number of Welsh speakers in Wales and thus increase the percentage of the population that can speak the language, and substantial investment is required to achieve that. Did the Minister for Education and Lifelong Learning make a special request to the Finance Minister that a specific sum of money for that work be included in the budget?
I support the Minister’s final budget, which brings much good news. It is a budget for all the people of Wales. It is awful to listen to David Davies making comments on behalf of the poll tax crew, after what they did to Wales. I cannot understand why the Conservative group does not take him to task and discipline him because of his comments on disadvantaged minorities. The group should be ashamed that he makes such comments. As Helen Mary said, it is a disgrace to the Conservative Party. If Iain Duncan Smith were listening, he would probably resign on the strength of it. The Conservative Party is where it is today because of such comments. People do not forget, and that is why the Conservatives do not have a parliamentary seat in Wales. That is also why they only have one Assembly seat—that of Monmouth—and eight lottery winners.
Cefnogaf gyllideb derfynol y Gweinidog, sy’n rhoi llawer o newyddion da. Cyllideb i bawb yng Nghymru ydyw. Mae’n ofnadwy gwrando ar David Davies yn cynnig sylwadau ar ran criw treth y pen, ar ôl yr hyn a wnaethant yng Nghymru. Ni allaf ddeall pam nad yw’r grŵp Ceidwadol yn dweud y drefn wrtho ac yn ei ddisgyblu yn sgîl ei sylwadau ar leiafrifoedd o dan anfantais. Dylai’r ffaith y gwna sylwadau o’r fath godi cywilydd ar y grŵp. Fel y dywedodd Helen Mary, mae’n gywilydd i’r Blaid Geidwadol. Pe byddai Iain Duncan Smith yn gwrando, mae’n debyg y byddai’n ymddiswyddo o’i herwydd. Mae’r Blaid Geidwadol yn y sefyllfa bresennol oherwydd sylwadau o’r fath. Nid yw pobl yn anghofio, a dyna pam nad oes gan y Ceidwadwyr Aelod Seneddol yng Nghymru. Dyna pam mai dim ond un Aelod Cynulliad sydd ganddynt hefyd—sef Mynwy—ac wyth unigolyn sydd wedi ennill y loteri.
As one of the lottery winners, I seem to remember that a lottery winner was First Secretary for some time and gave you a seat in the Cabinet. Are you condemning the system and the place that it secured for you in the Cabinet?
Fel un o’r rhai a enillodd y loteri, cofiaf mai rhywun a enillodd y loteri oedd Prif Weinidog Cymru am gyfnod ac a roddodd le i chi yn y Cabinet. A ydych yn condemnio’r system a’r lle a sicrhaodd i chi yn y Cabinet?
I have never supported the lottery system. I am grateful to you, as you have said several times that my place in the Cabinet was reasonably justified. I hope that you stick by that.
Ni chefnogais y system loteri erioed. Yr wyf yn ddiolchgar ichi, gan eich bod wedi dweud sawl gwaith fod cyfiawnhad rhesymol dros fy lle i yn y Cabinet. Gobeithiaf y glynwch wrth hynny.
This budget increases opportunities for people in terms of health, transport, education and local government. You must recognise that it has been applauded throughout Wales. Three new hospitals will be built in Wales as a result of this budget—I am delighted that one of those hospitals will be in my constituency. There is also extra money for roads and the highways network; money which is long overdue. Record amounts of money are being given to the health service. All this is possible because we are working in partnership with the UK Government and because of the record amounts allocated in the comprehensive spending review. Although you do not like to hear it, this is the result of the Labour UK Government and the Labour-led Government of Wales working together for the good of the people of Wales.
Mae’r gyllideb hon yn cynyddu’r cyfleoedd i bobl o ran iechyd, trafnidiaeth, addysg a llywodraeth leol. Rhaid ichi gydnabod ei bod wedi ei chanmol ledled Cymru. Caiff tri ysbyty newydd eu hadeiladu yng Nghymru o ganlyniad i’r gyllideb hon—yr wyf wrth fy modd y bydd un o’r ysbytai hynny yn fy etholaeth i. Mae arian ychwanegol hefyd i ffyrdd a’r rhwydwaith priffyrdd, y bu hir ddisgwyl amdano. Rhoddir y symiau arian mwyaf erioed i’r gwasanaeth iechyd. Mae hyn i gyd yn bosibl gan ein bod yn gweithio mewn partneriaeth â Llywodraeth y DU ac oherwydd y symiau mwyaf erioed a ddyrannwyd yn yr adolygiad cynhwysfawr o wariant. Er nad ydych yn hoffi clywed amdano, dyma ganlyniad cydweithio rhwng Llywodraeth Lafur y DU a Llywodraeth Cymru o dan arweiniad y Blaid Lafur er budd pobl Cymru.
This is a good news budget for the people of Wales. I compliment the Minister, as she has listened to the people and has targeted minorities, deprived communities and those who are discriminated against. She should be proud of that. We want to make changes: that is the purpose of the Assembly and devolution. There is no room for the Conservative Party’s out-of-date philosophy in the Assembly.
Dyma gyllideb o newyddion da i bobl Cymru. Canmolaf y Gweinidog, gan ei bod wedi gwrando ar y bobl ac wedi targedu lleiafrifoedd, cymunedau difreintiedig a’r rhai y gwahaniaethir yn eu herbyn. Dylai fod yn falch o hynny. Yr ydym am newid pethau: dyna ddiben y Cynulliad a datganoli. Nid oes lle i athroniaeth amherthnasol y Blaid Geidwadol yn y Cynulliad.
Edwina Hart The Finance Minister spoken in English p. 62
Edwina Hart Y Gweinidog Cyllid siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 62
In light of the discussion on the reserve position in the preliminary and the final budget, it might be helpful if I issued a note to Members to clarify the situation. Peter Black has set matters straight in today’s debate and in that on the preliminary budget. I am concerned that there is much false information on the reserve position, when the truth is that our reserves are higher than ever in years 2 and 3.
Yng ngoleuni’r drafodaeth am y sefyllfa o ran cronfeydd wrth gefn yn y gyllideb ragarweiniol a’r gyllideb derfynol, byddai’n ddefnyddiol pe byddwn yn anfon nodyn i’r Aelodau i egluro’r sefyllfa. Mae Peter Black wedi unioni’r sefyllfa yn y ddadl heddiw ac yn y ddadl ar y gyllideb ragarweiniol. Pryderaf fod llawer o wybodaeth anghywir ynghylch y sefyllfa o ran cronfeydd wrth gefn, er bod ein cronfeydd wrth gefn, mewn gwirionedd, yn uwch nag erioed o’r blaen ym mlynyddoedd 2 a 3.
Janet Ryder and the Tories’ opposition spokesperson should do their homework and look at the Government of Wales Act 1998 before raising the issue of the Secretary of State for Wales’s settlement as part of the budget debate. Janet also seems to have forgotten my speech during the debate on the preliminary budget, as she stated what a wonderful job I have done in responding to Plaid Cymru’s requests for drugs funding. During that speech, I said:
Dylai Janet Ryder a llefarydd gwrthblaid y Torïaid wneud eu gwaith cartref ac edrych ar Ddeddf Llywodraeth Cymru 1998 cyn codi mater setliad Ysgrifennydd Gwladol Cymru fel rhan o’r ddadl ar y gyllideb. Ymddengys hefyd i Janet anghofio fy araith yn ystod y ddadl ar y gyllideb ragarweiniol, oherwydd iddi nodi fy mod wedi gwneud gwaith da wrth ymateb i geisiadau Plaid Cymru am arian ar gyfer gwasanaethau cyffuriau. Yn ystod yr araith honno, dywedais:
‘Since taking over responsibility for substance misuse in Wales, I have been looking hard at what can be done to improve the availability of treatment services across Wales. I have now received a report on the demand and availability of services. I am considering this report alongside the responses to the consultation on the future structure of the drug and alcohol teams across Wales. I will make an announcement on resources for treatment services in my final budget’.
‘Ers ymgymryd â’r cyfrifoldeb dros gamddefnyddio sylweddau yng Nghymru, yr wyf wedi bod yn edrych yn fanwl ar yr hyn y gellir ei wneud i wella argaeledd triniaeth ledled Cymru. Yr wyf bellach wedi derbyn adroddiad am y galw am wasanaethau a’u hargaeledd. Yr wyf yn ystyried yr adroddiad hwn ochr yn ochr â’r ymatebion i’r ymgynghoriad ar sdrwythur timau alcohol a chyffuriau ledled Cymru yn y dyfodol. Byddaf yn gwneud cyhoeddiad am yr adnoddau i wasanaethau triniaeth yn fy nghyllideb derfynol’.
This has been a Government initiative from the start; it has nothing to do with the opposition’s cries for additional funding. Unlike the opposition, I do not deal in soundbite politics; I am only interested in reality and changing people’s lives. If David Davies knew anything about the situation as regards drugs, he would not have made the comments that he made today. The police and others involved tell me that I must tackle the issue of reoffending and keep people away from drugs—
Bu hon yn un o fentrau’r Llywodraeth o’r cychwyn cyntaf; nid oes a wnelo dim â galwadau’r gwrthbleidiau am arian ychwanegol. Yn wahanol i’r gwrthbleidiau, nid wyf yn ymwneud â gwleidyddiaeth datganiadau bachog; realiti a newid bywydau pobl yw’r unig bethau y mae gennyf ddiddordeb ynddynt. Pe byddai David Davies yn gwybod unrhyw beth am y sefyllfa o ran cyffuriau, ni fyddai wedi gwneud y sylwadau a wnaeth heddiw. Mae’r heddlu a phobl eraill sy’n gysylltiedig â’r broblem yn dweud wrthyf fod yn rhaid imi fynd i’r afael â phroblem aildroseddu a sicrhau nad yw pobl yn dod i gysylltiad â chyffuriau—
David Davies a gododd—
David Davies rose—
Dafydd Elis-Thomas The Presiding Officer spoken in English p. 63
Dafydd Elis-Thomas Y Llywydd siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 63
Order. The Minister is not giving way.
Trefn. Nid yw’r Gweinidog yn ildio.
You do not understand these issues. It is clear—
Nid ydych yn deall y materion hyn. Mae’n amlwg—
David Davies a gododd—
David Davies rose—
Dafydd Elis-Thomas The Presiding Officer spoken in English p. 64
Dafydd Elis-Thomas Y Llywydd siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 64
Order. The Minister is replying to the debate and cannot give way because of the amount of material before her, which I can see from here.
Trefn. Mae’r Gweinidog yn ymateb i’r ddadl ac ni all ildio oherwydd yr holl ddeunydd sydd o’i blaen, y gallaf ei weld o’r fan hon.
Some Members have complained about a lack of transparency. The budget figures are completely transparent. I was amazed to hear the comments about elderly and long-term care. Anyone can see from the budget—if they have read the paperwork—that there has been a transfer of funds to the revenue support grant settlement. That is as clear as the nose on my face.
Mae rhai Aelodau wedi cwyno am ddiffyg tryloywder. Mae ffigurau’r gyllideb yn hollol dryloyw. Yr oeddwn yn synnu clywed y sylwadau am ofal i’r henoed a gofal hirdymor. Gall unrhyw un weld o’r gyllideb—os darllenodd y gwaith papur—fod arian wedi ei drosglwyddo i setliad y grant cynnal refeniw. Mae hynny mor amlwg â golau dydd.
Mick Bates mentioned forestry. A forestry main expenditure group is included in the paperwork, and this indicates our spending. We have made commitments for the Wales woodland strategy and other issues, including Forestry Commission plans. Forestry is important, and more money has been allocated at the request of the Deputy First Minister and Minister for Rural Development and Wales Abroad.
Crybwyllodd Mick Bates goedwigaeth. Caiff prif grŵp gwariant coedwigaeth ei gynnwys yn y gwaith papur, ac mae hyn yn nodi ein gwariant. Gwnaethom ymrwymiadau ar gyfer strategaeth coetir Cymru a materion eraill, gan gynnwys cynlluniau’r Comisiwn Coedwigaeth. Mae coedwigaeth yn bwysig, a dyrannwyd mwy o arian ar gais y Dirprwy Brif Weinidog a’r Gweinidog dros Ddatblygu Gwledig a Chymru Dramor.
Janet mentioned housing, and Peter Black has explained the housing budget figures. Tom Middlehurst asked about Clwyd Theatr Cymru. Jenny Randerson and I are concerned about this; we must address the debt issue, but we must also address the wider issue of theatre in Wales. We are mindful of your comments, Tom. Jenny and I are considering the payment made via the Arts Council of Wales to clear the debt. I hope that that reassures you. I reassure all Members that Jenny and I are discussing wider issues involving the theatre in Wales. It has been noted that the revenue issues must be addressed before 2004-05.
Crybwyllodd Janet dai, ac mae Peter Black wedi egluro ffigurau’r gyllideb tai. Gofynnodd Tom Middlehurst ynghylch Clwyd Theatr Cymru. Mae Jenny Randerson a minnau yn pryderu ynghylch hyn; rhaid inni ymdrin â’r broblem dyledion, ond rhaid inni ymdrin hefyd â’r mater ehangach o theatr yng Nghymru. Yr ydym yn ymwybodol o’ch sylwadau, Tom. Mae Jenny a minnau yn ystyried y taliad a wnaed drwy Gyngor Celfyddydau Cymru i dalu’r ddyled. Gobeithiaf fod hynny yn tawelu’ch meddwl. Sicrhaf bob Aelod fod Jenny a minnau yn trafod materion ehangach ynglŷn â’r theatr yng Nghymru. Nodwyd bod rhaid ymdrin â’r materion refeniw cyn 2004-05.
I agree with David Ian Jones that, in terms of health, putting money in is not an end in itself. That is why we considered the Wanless report and its recommendations for the health and social care agenda. It is important to recognise that we have not thrown money into health for no reason. There are specific projects—
Cytunaf â David Ian Jones nad yw dyrannu arian yn ddiben ynddo’i hun, o ran iechyd. Dyna pam y gwnaethom ystyried adroddiad Wanless a’i argymhellion ar gyfer yr agenda iechyd a gofal cymdeithasol. Mae’n bwysig cydnabod nad ydym wedi rhoi arian i iechyd heb reswm. Mae prosiectau penodol—
Dafydd Elis-Thomas The Presiding Officer spoken in English p. 65
Dafydd Elis-Thomas Y Llywydd siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 65
Order. I am afraid that your time is up, Minister. Please wind up.
Trefn. Mae’n ddrwg gennyf ond daeth eich amser i ben, Weinidog. A fyddech cystal â dirwyn i ben.
I urge Members to support the budget.
Anogaf yr Aelodau i gefnogi’r gyllideb.
Cynnig NDM1201 Edwina Hart t. 65
Motion NDM1201 Edwina Hart p. 65
DerbyniwydAdopted O blaidFor 29 YmatalAbstain 12 Yn erbynAgainst 10
Derbyniwyd y cynnig.
Motion carried.
Sut y pleidleisiodd yr AelodauHow Members voted
O blaidFor (29)
- Lorraine Barrett
- Mick Bates
- Peter Black
- Eleanor Burnham
- Rosemary Butler
- Christine Chapman
- Jane Davidson
- Andrew Davies
- Sue Essex
- Delyth Evans
- Michael German
- Brian Gibbons
- Janice Gregory
- John Griffiths
- Alison Halford
- Edwina Hart
- Jane Hutt
- Ann Jones
- Carwyn Jones
- Peter Law
- Huw Lewis
- Val Lloyd
- Tom Middlehurst
- Rhodri Morgan
- Lynne Neagle
- Jenny Randerson
- Karen Sinclair
- Gwenda Thomas
- Kirsty Williams
YmatalAbstain (12)
- Geraint Davies
- Janet Davies
- Brian Hancock
- Elin Jones
- Gareth Jones
- Helen Mary Jones
- David Lloyd
- Janet Ryder
- Owen John Thomas
- Rhodri Glyn Thomas
- Dafydd Wigley
- Phil Williams
Yn erbynAgainst (10)
- Nick Bourne
- Alun Cairns
- David Davies
- Glyn Davies
- Richard Edwards
- William Graham
- David Ian Jones
- David Melding
- Jonathan Morgan
- Peter Rogers
Pwynt o Drefn
Point of Order
Point of order. I voted incorrectly on the budget. [Laughter.]
Pwynt o drefn. Ni phleidleisiais yn gywir ar y gyllideb. [Chwerthin.]
Dadl o dan Reol Sefydlog Rhif 29: Is-ddeddfwriaeth o dan Ddeddf yr Amgylchedd 1995
Debate under Standing Order No. 29: Subordinate Legislation under the Environment Act 1995
Dafydd Elis-Thomas Y Llywydd siaradwyd yn Gymraeg t. 66
Dafydd Elis-Thomas The Presiding Officer spoken in Welsh p. 66
Bydd Geraint Davies yn cynnig y ddadl hon. Hoffwn atgoffa’r Aelodau, yn ôl Rheol Sefydlog Rhif 6.3(v) a basiwyd ddoe, bydd yn rhaid cychwyn y ddadl fer am 5 p.m. Credaf fod digon o amser i alw pawb sydd am siarad, ac i Geraint gloi’r ddadl, heb gyfyngu hyd areithiau ymhellach.
Geraint Davies will propose this debate. I remind Members that according to Standing Order No. 6.3(v), which was adopted yesterday, we must begin the short debate at 5 p.m. I believe that we have sufficient time to call all those who wish to speak, and for Geraint to close the debate without placing additional restrictions on the length of speeches.
Yr wyf wedi dethol gwelliannau 1 a 3 yn enw Geraint Davies, a gwelliannau 2 a 4 yn enw Jonathan Morgan.
I have selected amendments 1 and 3 in the name of Geraint Davies, and amendments 2 and 4 in the name of Jonathan Morgan.
Cynigiaf fod
I propose that
Cynigiaf y gwelliannau canlynol yn fy enw i. Gwelliant 1: Ym mhwynt 1, dileu’r geiriau: ‘gollyngiadau o nwyon tirlenwi’, a rhoi yn eu lle:
I propose the following amendments in my name. Amendment 1: in point 1, delete the words: ‘emissions from landfill gas flaring’ and replace with:
Cynigiaf welliant 3. Ym mhwynt 2, dileu’r geiriau:
I propose amendment 3. In point 2, delete the words:
Geraint Davies (parhad) siaradwyd yn Gymraeg ac yn Saesneg t. 67
Geraint Davies (continued) spoken in Welsh and English p. 67
Ni fyddaf yn derbyn unrhyw ymyriad ond gobeithiaf ateb unrhyw sylwadau a chwestiynau wrth gloi’r ddadl.
in Welsh I will not be accepting any interventions but I hope to answer any comments and questions in closing the debate.
This proposal has two main objectives. First, to gather information relating to the composition of gaseous emissions from landfill sites and flares, and secondly to put this information to good use as part of a public health study that will assess the effects of exposure to emissions from landfill sites. I have agreed to the Presiding Officer’s request that I split the amendment that I originally tabled into two separate amendments to facilitate debate and voting. The amendments tabled in my name broaden the scope of my original proposal in two ways. In the original proposal, only landfill gas flaring was to be monitored, but after further research I concluded that it was appropriate to call for monitoring to encompass all gaseous emissions from landfill sites, not only flaring. I also felt it appropriate to specify that a public health study would be the most effective way to assess the information gathered.
yn Saesneg Mae i’r cynnig hwn ddau brif amcan. Yn gyntaf, i gasglu gwybodaeth yn ymwneud â chyfansoddiad gollyngiadau nwyol o safleoedd tirlenwi a ffagliadau ac yn ail i roi’r wybodaeth hon at ddefnydd da fel rhan o astudiaeth iechyd cyhoeddus a fydd yn asesu effaith bod mewn cysylltiad â gollyngiadau o safleoedd tirlenwi. Yr wyf wedi cytuno i gais y Llywydd i rannu’r gwelliant a gyflwynais yn wreiddiol yn ddau welliant ar wahân i hwyluso’r ddadl a’r pleidleisio. Mae’r gwelliannau a gyflwynwyd yn fy enw i yn ymestyn cwmpas fy nghynnig gwreiddiol mewn dwy ffordd. Yn y cynnig gwreiddiol, dim ond nwy tirlenwi fyddai’n cael ei fonitro, ond ar ôl ymchwil bellach, deuthum i’r casgliad ei fod yn briodol mynnu bod y monitro yn ymgorffori pob gollyngiad nwyol o safleoedd tirlenwi, nid ffagliadau yn unig. Teimlais hefyd ei fod yn briodol nodi mai astudiaeth iechyd cyhoeddus fyddai’r ffordd fwyaf effeithiol o asesu’r wybodaeth a gasglwyd.
Concerning the amendments tabled by the Conservatives, I reject amendment 2 in principle. Monitoring communities close to landfill sites is a fundamental aspect of these proposals—it is their health and safety that concerns us. However, I am prepared to support amendment 4, as what it proposes is implicit in amendment 3. Therefore, I ask Members to support amendments 1, 3 and 4 and to reject amendment 2.
yn Saesneg O ran y gwelliannau a gyflwynwyd gan y Ceidwadwyr, gwrthodaf welliant 2 mewn egwyddor. Mae monitro cymunedau yn agos at safleoedd tirlenwi yn agwedd sylfaenol ar y cynigion hyn—yr hyn sy’n bwysig i ni yw eu hiechyd a’u diogelwch. Fodd bynnag, yr wyf yn barod i gefnogi gwelliant 4, gan fod yr hyn y mae’n ei gynnig ymhlyg yng ngwelliant 3. Felly, gofynnaf i’r Aelodau gefnogi gwelliannau 1, 3 a 4 a gwrthod gwelliant 2.
The need for this proposed legislation is summed up in the recommendation from the Institute of Environment and Health’s exposure and toxicological review from the Nantygwyddon report:
yn Saesneg Crynhoir yr angen am y ddeddfwriaeth hon a gynigir yn argymhellion adolygiad Sefydliad yr Amgylchedd ac Iechyd o’r cyswllt â nwyon a’u tocsicoleg o adroddiad Nantygwyddon:
‘It is recommended that a full programme of air quality monitoring be undertaken… Developing a fuller picture of the air quality in the area should allow a more robust assessment to be made as to whether living in the vicinity of the site poses any excess risk to health.’
yn Saesneg Argymhellir y dylid ymgymryd â rhaglen lawn i fonitro ansawdd yr aer…Drwy gael darlun mwy cyflawn o ansawdd aer yr ardal, dylem allu asesu’n fwy cadarn pa un ai a yw byw yn gyfagos i’r safle yn achosi risg mwy na’r cyffredin i iechyd.
There are several pertinent points here. First of all, a need for air quality monitoring to take place is widely recognised by environmental health experts. The Purchon report into Nantygwyddon underlined that fact. It noted that knowledge is usually lacking as to whether—and to what extent—local residents near a waste site are exposed to substances that may be emitted from the site.
yn Saesneg Mae sawl pwynt perthnasol yma. Yn gyntaf, cydnabyddir yn gyffredinol gan arbenigwyr ym maes iechyd amgylcheddol fod angen monitro ansawdd yr aer. Pwysleisiodd adroddiad Purchon ar Nantygwyddon y ffaith honno. Nododd nad oes digon o wybodaeth fel arfer ynglŷn â sut—ac i ba raddau—y mae pobl sy’n byw ger safle gwastraff yn wynebu perygl yn sgîl sylweddau a ollyngir o’r safle.
It further states that Rhondda Cynon Taf council was not in a position to assess whether the site contributed to ill health due to the lack of meaningful local air quality data.
yn Saesneg  yn ei flaen i nodi nad oedd cyngor Rhondda Cynon Taf mewn sefyllfa i asesu a oedd y safle yn cyfrannu at afiechyd gan nad oedd data ystyrlon ar ansawdd yr aer lleol ar gael.
Secondly, the exposure and toxicological review argues that data on air quality should be collected throughout the communities surrounding landfill sites and not only on-site. There is no statutory requirement at present for monitoring emissions from landfill sites or flare within near-by communities. This is one of the most fundamental aspects of this proposal.
yn Saesneg Yn ail, dadleua’r adolygiad o gyswllt â nwyon a’u tocsicoleg y dylai’r data ar ansawdd yr aer gael ei gasglu yn y cymunedau o amgylch y safleoedd tirlenwi ac nid ar y safle yn unig. Nid oes unrhyw ofyniad statudol ar hyn o bryd i fonitro gollyngiadau o safleoedd tirlenwi neu ffagliadau o fewn cymunedau cyfagos. Dyma un o’r agweddau mwyaf sylfaenol ar y cynnig hwn.
If we aim to ensure the health and safety of residents in the area then surely we must accept that monitoring within the community, and not only on the site itself, is crucial. Monitoring must be independent and must be seen to be independent. The community should be involved and must have full confidence in the process. The monitoring should also be site-specific and take into account external conditions such as topography, climate and the nature of the waste accepted. Thirdly, the review also suggests that the data collected should then be used to assess the risks posed to the health of people who live in those communities.
yn Saesneg Os anelwn at sicrhau iechyd a diogelwch trigolion yn yr ardal yna rhaid inni dderbyn bod monitro o fewn y gymuned, ac nid ar y safle yn unig, yn hollbwysig. Rhaid i’r gwaith monitro fod yn annibynnol a rhaid iddo gael ei ystyried yn rhywbeth annibynnol. Dylai’r gymuned fod yn rhan o’r broses a rhaid sicrhau bod ganddynt bob ffydd ynddi. Dylai’r monitro hefyd fod yn benodol i’r safle a dylai ystyried amodau allanol megis y dopograffeg, yr hinsawdd a natur y gwastraff a dderbynnir. Yn drydydd, mae’r adolygiad yn awgrymu hefyd y dylai’r data a gesglir gael ei ddefnyddio wedyn i asesu’r risgiau i iechyd y bobl sy’n byw yn y cymunedau hynny.
Public concern about landfill emissions has increased in light of recent evidence linking landfill sites with adverse health effects, including birth defects. The fears about and perceived risks of Nantygwyddon are well documented and we have the dedicated campaigners of Rhondda Against Nantygwyddon Tip to thank for that. However, as David Purchon noted, information was not available to help to assess the risks.
yn Saesneg Mae pryder y cyhoedd ynghylch gollyngiadau tirlenwi wedi cynyddu yng ngoleuni tystiolaeth ddiweddar yn cysylltu safleoedd tirlenwi ag effeithiau iechyd andwyol, gan gynnwys namau geni. Rhoddwyd llawer o sylw i’r ofnau am Nantygwyddon a’r risgiau cydnabyddedig ac i ymgyrchwyr ymroddedig Rhondda Against Nantygwyddon Tip y mae’r diolch am hynny. Fodd bynnag, fel y nododd David Purchon, nid oedd gwybodaeth ar gael i helpu asesu’r risgiau.
Our proposal would address that. The information would be relevant to the work of the visitors from the Agency for Toxic Substances and Disease Registry in America who are in Rhondda this week and whose brief is to advise on future health studies to be carried out for the communities surrounding Nantygwyddon. It would also be relevant for the rest of Wales. Rhondda Cynon Taf County Borough Council has started to address the issue and has begun a programme of air quality monitoring. However, that work is being done voluntarily. We need to ensure that air quality monitoring around landfill sites is mandatory and done throughout Wales.
yn Saesneg Byddai ein cynnig yn ymdrin â hynny. Byddai’r wybodaeth yn berthnasol i waith ymwelwyr o’r Asiantaeth ar gyfer Sylweddau Gwenwynig a’r Gofrestrfa Clefydau yn America sydd yn y Rhondda yr wythnos hon. Eu briff yw rhoi cyngor ar astudiaethau iechyd i’w cynnal yn y dyfodol yn y cymunedau o amgylch Nantygwyddon. Byddai’n berthnasol hefyd i weddill Cymru. Mae Cyngor Bwrdeistref Sirol Rhondda Cynon Taf wedi dechrau mynd i’r afael â’r mater hwn ac wedi dechrau rhaglen o fonitro ansawdd yr aer. Fodd bynnag, gwneir y gwaith hwnnw yn wirfoddol. Rhaid inni sicrhau bod monitro ansawdd yr aer o amgylch safleoedd tirlenwi yn orfodol ac y’i cyflawnir ledled Cymru.
One of the most important things that we must do is demonstrate that we have learned the lessons of Nantygwyddon. This proposed legislation is a chance to continue the work that has started in Rhondda since the closure of the tip and to extend it to the whole of the Wales and to place it on a statutory footing.
yn Saesneg Un o’r pethau pwysicaf y mae’n rhaid inni ei wneud yw dangos ein bod wedi dysgu gwersi yn sgîl Nantygwyddon. Mae’r ddeddfwriaeth a gynigir yn gyfle i barhau â’r gwaith a ddechreuodd yn y Rhondda ers i’r domen gau a’i ymestyn i Gymru gyfan a’i roi ar sail statudol.
Some of you will be aware that certain guidelines and directives already make provision for air quality monitoring. My colleague, Janet Davies, will speak in more detail about why the current provisions are inadequate and why further Assembly legislation is necessary.
yn Saesneg Bydd rhai ohonoch yn ymwybodol fod rhai canllawiau a chyfarwyddebau eisoes yn darparu ar gyfer monitro ansawdd aer. Bydd fy nghyd-Aelod, Janet Davies, yn sôn yn fanylach am y rhesymau dros annigonolrwydd y darpariaethau presennol a pham bod angen deddfwriaeth bellach yn y Cynulliad.
The Assembly should use its powers to the full whenever possible and as soon as possible to improve the lives of those whom we represent. We have the power to act in a way that will benefit all affected communities in Wales. By supporting and adopting this proposal today, we will send out a clear signal that the National Assembly for Wales is ready to listen to the concerns of those communities and, more importantly, to take the necessary action to address those very real concerns. Please support the motion and amendments 1, 3 and 4.
yn Saesneg Dylai’r Cynulliad ddefnyddio ei bwerau i’r eithaf lle bo hynny’n bosibl a chyn gynted â phosibl i wella bywydau’r bobl hynny a gynrychiolwn. Mae gennym y pŵer i weithredu mewn ffordd a fydd yn fanteisiol i bob cymuned yr effeithir arni yng Nghymru. Drwy gefnogi a mabwysiadu’r cynnig hwn heddiw, dangoswn yn glir fod Cynulliad Cenedlaethol Cymru yn barod i wrando ar bryderon y cymunedau hynny ac, yn bwysicach, i gymryd y camau angenrheidiol i fynd i’r afael â’r pryderon gwirioneddol hynny. Cefnogwch y cynnig a gwelliannau 1, 3 a 4.
I propose the following amendments in the name of Jonathan Morgan. Amendment 2: in point 1, delete the words:
Cynigiaf y gwelliannau canlynol yn enw Jonathan Morgan. Gwelliant 2: ym mhwynt 1, dileu’r geiriau:
I propose amendment 4. In point 2, insert after ‘sites’:
Cynigiaf welliant 4. Ym mhwynt 2, rhoi’r canlynol ar ôl ‘safleoedd’:
We support today’s debate. Geraint, I understand your concerns about amendment 2. We tabled it because we felt that by doing so we might be able to clarify your proposal. I wanted to discuss it with you beforehand. If you feel that the amendment adds nothing, then I am happy to withdraw it.
Cefnogwn ddadl heddiw. Geraint, deallaf eich pryderon ynghylch gwelliant 2. Fe’i cyflwynwyd gennym am ein bod yn teimlo y gallem, drwy wneud hynny, egluro eich cynnig. Yr oeddwn am ei drafod gyda chi ymlaen llaw. Os teimlwch nad yw’r gwelliant yn ychwanegu dim, yna yr wyf yn fodlon ei dynnu yn ôl.
There is consensus across all political parties that one of the biggest environmental problems that we face is how to deal with waste disposal. The potential dangers of bad practice were vividly highlighted by the recent investigation into the Nantygwyddon landfill site. Like most people, I always believed that waste disposal by incineration was the process most likely to cause damage to the environment and that landfill, while not sustainable in the long term, was not as harmful to the environment per se. I have had to revisit that view since the investigation into the Nantygwyddon landfill site. I have visited several incinerators and learned that, if they are properly managed, emissions are negligible—I use the word ‘incinerators’ advisedly because nobody likes to use that word anymore; they are now called waste-to-energy units. However, as we have discovered, badly managed landfill sites can cause air pollution, contamination of the water table and can lead to problems with vermin, odours and possibly even health problems for residents in the vicinity. For all those reasons, I believe that Members should support the motion.
Mae pob plaid wleidyddol yn cytuno mai un o’r problemau amgylcheddol mwyaf a wynebwn yw sut i ddelio â gwaredu gwastraff. Amlygwyd peryglon posibl arfer gwael yn glir gan yr ymchwiliad diweddar i safle tirlenwi Nantygwyddon. Fel y rhan fwyaf o bobl, credais bob amser mai gwaredu gwastraff drwy ei losgi oedd y broses a oedd yn fwyaf tebygol o achosi niwed i’r amgylchedd ac nad oedd tirlenwi, er nad yw’n gynaliadwy yn yr hirdymor, mor niweidiol i’r amgylchedd ynddo’i hun. Bu’n rhaid imi ailystyried y farn honno ers yr ymchwiliad i safle tirlenwi Nantygwyddon. Yr wyf wedi ymweld â sawl llosgydd ac wedi dysgu bod y gollyngiadau, os cânt eu rheoli’n briodol, yn fach iawn—defnyddiaf y gair ‘llosgydd’ yn ddoeth oherwydd nid oes neb yn hoffi defnyddio’r gair hwnnw bellach; fe’u gelwir yn unedau troi gwastraff yn ynni erbyn hyn. Fodd bynnag, fel y darganfuom, gall safleoedd tirlenwi a reolir yn wael achosi llygredd aer, gall lygru’r lefel drwythiad a gall arwain at broblemau gyda fermin, arogleuon a hyd yn oed broblemau iechyd i drigolion yn y cyffiniau. Am yr holl resymau hynny, credaf y dylai’r Aelodau gefnogi’r cynnig.
In the longer term, we must think realistically about how to deal with the enormous amount of waste that each of us generates. Unfortunately, there is a tendency to criticise landfill and incineration without offering clear alternatives. Everyone agrees, in theory, that we should encourage more re-use and recycling of materials. However, it is tempting for us to offer that as a catch-all response to questions about how waste should be dealt with. The reality is that no country in the world can deal with all of its waste using those methods. Much more could be done to encourage greener methods of waste disposal, but even if we could achieve a turnaround in the current policy, there will always be a certain amount of waste that will need to be either incinerated or placed in landfill sites. We must do everything possible to minimise the health risks of these processes. As a result of poor practice in the past, incineration still has a bad reputation. I visited a waste-to-energy plant a few years ago on the Isle of Wight. I was impressed by the fact that it is independently monitored on a regular basis and emits less pollution than would be found on the pavement of any high street.
Yn y tymor hwy, rhaid inni feddwl yn realistig am sut i ddelio â’r swm sylweddol o wastraff y mae pob un ohonom yn ei gynhyrchu. Yn anffodus, tueddir i feirniadu tirlenwi a llosgi heb gynnig dewisiadau amgen clir. Cytuna pawb, mewn egwyddor, y dylem annog pobl i ailddefnyddio ac ailgylchu deunyddiau yn fwy. Fodd bynnag, mae’n demtasiwn inni gynnig hynny fel ymateb cyffredinol i gwestiynau am y modd y dylid ymdrin â gwastraff. Y realiti yw na all unrhyw wlad yn y byd ddelio â’i holl wastraff gan ddefnyddio’r dulliau hynny. Gellid gwneud llawer mwy i annog dulliau gwyrddach o waredu gwastraff, ond hyd yn oed pe baem yn gallu gwyrdroi’r polisi cyfredol, bydd rhywfaint o wastraff y bydd angen naill ai ei losgi neu ei roi mewn safleoedd tirlenwi o hyd. Rhaid inni wneud popeth posibl i leihau risgiau iechyd y prosesau hyn. O ganlyniad i arferion gwael yn y gorffennol, mae gan y broses losgi enw gwael o hyd. Ymwelais â gwaith troi gwastraff yn ynni ychydig flynyddoedd yn ôl ar Ynys Wyth. Fe’m trawyd gan y ffaith ei fod yn cael ei fonitro’n annibynnol yn rheolaidd a’i fod yn gollwng llai o lygredd nag a welir ar balmant unrhyw stryd fawr.
The use of landfill has traditionally been seen as being less polluting than other methods, but the reasons for believing that are now less valid. The motion is about achieving a measure of consistency in how waste disposal processes are regulated. It is a measure that will reassure the public, while reminding us of the important commitment to find cleaner methods of waste disposal. I urge Members to support the motion, and I thank Plaid Cymru for its support for amendment 4.
Yn draddodiadol, ystyriwyd y defnydd o dirlenwi fel rhywbeth a oedd yn achosi llai o lygredd na dulliau eraill, ond mae’r rhesymau dros gredu hynny yn llai dilys erbyn hyn. Mae’r cynnig yn ymwneud â chyflawni rhywfaint o gysondeb yn y modd y rheoleiddir prosesau gwaredu gwastraff. Bydd y mesur hwn yn tawelu meddyliau’r cyhoedd, tra’n ein hatgoffa o’r ymrwymiad pwysig i ganfod dulliau glanach o waredu gwastraff. Anogaf yr Aelodau i gefnogi’r cynnig, a diolchaf i Blaid Cymru am gefnogi gwelliant 4.
Sue Essex The Minister for Environment spoken in English p. 71
Sue Essex Y Gweinidog dros yr Amgylchedd siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 71
I acknowledge that the motion is founded on concern about the possible long-term effects on the health of communities living close to landfill sites. I share this concern, which is reflected in the growing amount of environmental and health research. In taking issues forward, it is important that we are guided by what this research and the environmental and health issues tell us. In outlining the Government’s position, I will explain the current regulatory regime and the actions being taken to gain evidence that may lead us to change it. I will suggest a possible course of action in the light of evidence as it becomes available. Further regulation is unlikely to be the most appropriate action at present.
Cydnabyddaf fod y cynnig yn seiliedig ar bryder ynghylch yr effeithiau hirdymor posibl ar iechyd cymunedau sy’n byw yn agos at safleoedd tirlenwi. Rhannaf y pryder hwn a adlewyrchir yn yr ymchwil gynyddol ar yr amgylchedd ac iechyd. Wrth ddatblygu materion, mae’n bwysig inni gael ein harwain gan yr hyn y mae’r ymchwil a’r materion amgylcheddol ac iechyd yn ei ddweud wrthym. Wrth amlinellu safbwynt y Llywodraeth, egluraf y drefn reoliadol gyfredol a’r camau a gymerir i gael tystiolaeth a all ein harwain i’w newid. Awgrymaf ffordd bosibl o weithredu yng ngoleuni tystiolaeth wrth iddi ddod ar gael. Nid yw’n debygol mai rhagor o reoliadau yw’r ffordd fwyaf priodol o symud ymlaen ar hyn o bryd.
The make-up of landfill gas can be complex, depending on the materials deposited on site. However, the main components are methane, which forms roughly between two-thirds and nine-tenths of the total volume, and carbon dioxide. Therefore, the bulk of emissions are of concern because of their climate-change effect. The main component which is of concern in terms of health is hydrogen sulphide. Typically, this may only present in minute quantities in landfill sites—perhaps one part in 50,000. Trace organic gases make up a very small proportion of the total gas, normally less than 1 per cent. However, there can be between 50 and 200 of these trace gases in the gas, depending on the waste intake. Landfill sites are varied in character and in the materials they receive.
Gall cyfansoddiad nwy tirlenwi fod yn gymhleth, gan ddibynnu ar y deunyddiau a adewir ar y safle. Fodd bynnag, methan, sy’n ffurfio’n fras rhwng dwy ran o dair a naw rhan o ddeg o gyfanswm y cyfaint, a charbon diocsid yw’r prif elfennau. Felly mae’r rhan fwyaf o’r gollyngiadau yn broblem gan eu bod yn effeithio ar yr hinsawdd. Y brif elfen sy’n achosi pryder o ran iechyd yw hydrogen sylffid. Yn nodweddiadol, efallai mai dim ond mewn symiau bach iawn y bydd hwn yn bresennol mewn safleoedd tirlenwi—efallai un rhan o 50,000. Mae nwyon organig hybrin yn ffurfio rhan fach iawn o gyfanswm y nwy, llai nag 1 y cant fel arfer. Fodd bynnag, gall rhwng 50 a 200 o’r nwyon hybrin hyn fod yn y nwy, gan ddibynnu ar y gwastraff a dderbynnir. Mae safleoedd tirlenwi yn amrywio o ran eu natur a’r deunyddiau a dderbyniant.
Our understanding of the potential connection between landfill emissions and their possible effects on human health is hampered by the different content of sites and the different ways in which emissions may travel from the site to the surrounding area. Although we have reasonable information on the major components of landfill gas—methane and carbon dioxide—our knowledge of the effects of the 200 or so gases emitted at trace concentrations is poor. There is a large body of research underway, aimed at addressing these fundamental questions. Until the results of this work are known, we are unlikely to be able to provide definitive evidence to address the questions being posed.
Rhwystrir ein dealltwriaeth o’r cysylltiad posibl rhwng gollyngiadau tirlenwi a’u heffeithiau posibl ar iechyd pobl gan y cynnwys gwahanol a geir mewn safleoedd a’r ffyrdd gwahanol y gall gollyngiadau deithio o’r safle i’r ardal gyfagos. Er bod gennym wybodaeth resymol am brif elfennau nwy tirlenwi—methan a charbon diocsid—mae ein gwybodaeth o effeithiau’r tua 200 o nwyon a ollyngir mewn crynoadau hybrin yn wael. Mae llawer iawn o ymchwil ar y gweill, sy’n anelu at ymdrin â’r cwestiynau sylfaenol hyn. Hyd nes y bydd canlyniadau’r gwaith hwn yn hysbys, mae’n annhebyg y gallwn ddarparu tystiolaeth bendant i ymdrin â’r cwestiynau a ofynnir.
All Members are familiar with the Nantygwyddon investigation. The Government fully endorses the recommendations made by the Environment, Transport and Planning Committee. Some of those recommendations require further study to inform us, not only about Nantygwyddon, but possibly about landfill sites in general. As Geraint said, coincidentally, a team of American health specialists are in Wales this week to assist the Wales Centre for Health in providing advice to the Welsh Assembly Government on taking forward the health recommendations of the Nantygwyddon investigation. Those specialists will provide a written report to the centre within the next month.
Mae pob Aelod yn gyfarwydd ag ymchwiliad Nantygwyddon. Mae’r Llywodraeth yn cymeradwyo’r argymhellion a wnaed gan Bwyllgor yr Amgylchedd, Trafnidiaeth a Chynllunio yn llawn. Mae angen astudiaeth bellach ar rai o’r argymhellion er mwyn ein hysbysu, nid yn unig am Nantygwyddon, ond o bosibl am safleoedd tirlenwi yn gyffredinol. Fel y dywedodd Geraint, gyda llaw, mae tîm o arbenigwyr iechyd o America yng Nghymru yr wythnos hon i helpu Canolfan Iechyd Cymru i ddarparu cyngor i Lywodraeth Cynulliad Cymru ar ddatblygu argymhellion iechyd ymchwiliad Nantygwyddon. Bydd yr arbenigwyr hynny yn rhoi adroddiad ysgrifenedig i’r ganolfan o fewn y mis nesaf.
I turn to the regulatory base for monitoring landfill emissions and tackling air pollution. We are moving forward in monitoring air quality and pollution. There have been two important developments in the last few years. One is the monitoring of emissions at landfill sites, and the second, to which Geraint’s motion primarily refers, covers the more general monitoring of air quality in local authority areas. I will consider the first development—
Trof at y sylfaen reoleiddio ar gyfer monitro gollyngiadau tirlenwi a mynd i’r afael â llygredd aer. Yr ydym yn datblygu’r broses o fonitro ansawdd aer a llygredd. Bu dau ddatblygiad pwysig yn yr ychydig flynyddoedd diwethaf. Un ohonynt oedd monitro gollyngiadau ar safleoedd tirlenwi a’r ail, y cyfeiria cynnig Geraint ato’n bennaf, oedd monitro ansawdd aer mwy cyffredinol mewn ardaloedd awdurdodau lleol. Ystyriaf y datblygiad cyntaf—
Mick Bates a gododd—
Mick Bates rose—
Sorry, Mick, I would like to continue with my speech a little longer.
Mae’n ddrwg gennyf, Mick, hoffwn barhau â’m haraith am ychydig yn fwy.
It is important to recognise and acknowledge that there has been a significant change in the regulatory control of emissions from landfill sites. Required regulatory controls for gas monitoring are contained in the landfill regulations introduced this year. These regulations implement the European landfill directive that is already addressing many of the issues raised in Geraint’s motion. To back these regulations, the Environment Agency is developing technical guidance on emissions standards for all aspects of gas emissions from landfill sites in order to implement the landfill directive. The directive requires gas treatment to be carried out in a manner that minimises risk to human health and environmental damage and deterioration. The Environment Agency guidance will include flares and gas engines, and will set standards for installation.
Mae’n bwysig cydnabod y bu newid sylweddol yn rheolaeth reoliadol gollyngiadau o safleoedd tirlenwi. Cynhwysir y rheolaethau rheoliadol sy’n ofynnol ar gyfer monitro nwy yn y rheoliadau tirlenwi a gyflwynwyd eleni. Mae’r rheoliadau hyn yn gweithredu’r gyfarwyddeb tirlenwi Ewropeaidd sydd eisoes yn ymdrin â llawer o’r materion a godwyd yng nghynnig Geraint. I gefnogi’r rheoliadau hyn, mae Asiantaeth yr Amgylchedd yn datblygu canllawiau technegol ar safonau gollyngiadau ar gyfer pob agwedd ar ollyngiadau nwy o safleoedd tirlenwi er mwyn gweithredu’r gyfarwyddeb tirlenwi. Mae’r gyfarwyddeb yn ei gwneud yn ofynnol i nwy gael ei drin mewn modd sy’n lleihau’r risg i iechyd pobl a difrod a dirywiad amgylcheddol. Bydd canllawiau Asiantaeth yr Amgylchedd yn cynnwys ffagliadau a pheiriannau nwy, a bydd yn gosod safonau ar gyfer eu gosod.
You referred to the Environment Agency’s monitoring of air quality in communities. I am aware that there is one piece of portable monitoring equipment in Wales. Will you encourage the agency to buy another piece of portable equipment to aid the gathering of data that will enable us to answer questions about air quality in communities near landfill sites where there are emissions?
Cyfeiriasoch at y modd y mae Asiantaeth yr Amgylchedd yn monitro ansawdd aer mewn cymunedau. Yr wyf yn ymwybodol bod un darn o gyfarpar monitro cludadwy yng Nghymru. A wnewch chi annog yr asiantaeth i brynu darn arall o gyfarpar cludadwy er mwyn hwyluso’r gwaith o gasglu data a fydd yn ein galluogi i ateb cwestiynau am ansawdd aer mewn cymunedau sy’n agos at safleoedd tirlenwi lle ceir gollyngiadau?
I will respond to that important point when I address the issue of monitoring ambient air quality.
Ymatebaf i’r pwynt pwysig hwnnw pan fyddaf yn ymdrin â mater monitro ansawdd aer amgylchol.
The Environment Agency will shortly publish best practice guidance for landfill gas flaring, which addresses monitoring requirements. The agency will consult widely over the next two months on six technical draft guidance documents that further address landfill gas. The European landfill directive has led to change and much greater and much needed monitoring of landfill sites.
Bydd Asiantaeth yr Amgylchedd yn cyhoeddi canllawiau arferion gorau yn fuan ar gyfer nwyon tirlenwi, sy’n ymdrin â gofynion monitro. Bydd yr asiantaeth yn ymgynghori’n eang yn ystod y ddau fis nesaf ar chwe dogfen canllawiau drafft technegol sy’n ymdrin ymhellach â nwy tirlenwi. Mae’r gyfarwyddeb tirlenwi Ewropeaidd wedi arwain at newid a llawer mwy o waith monitro safleoedd tirlenwi yr oedd ei angen yn ddirfawr.
The second regulatory base is the measurement of air quality in the vicinity of landfill sites. Progress has been made in this regard. The air quality strategy published in 2000 sets out standards and objectives to improve ambient air quality. Local authorities are required to assess ambient air quality for seven main pollutants which are of health concern. These pollutants have been identified. Where the strategy’s objectives are unlikely to be achieved, a local authority must declare an air quality management area and draw up an action plan. Local authorities are required to consider all sources of relevant pollutants, including landfill sites. Three local authorities in Wales have declared air quality management areas. I am sure that Members would agree, to pick up Mick’s point, that responding to the concerns of communities in terms of air quality is a major function of local authorities. Cardiff County Council and the City and County of Swansea Council have declared air management areas for nitrogen dioxide, which is a pollutant from road traffic sources. Neath Port Talbot County Borough Council has done likewise for particulates from industrial and road traffic sources. No local authority in Wales has declared an action area or intends to do so on the basis of landfill gas emissions. Geraint referred to the voluntary air quality monitoring programme in Rhondda Cynon Taff, and I believe that all local authorities in Wales should decide on priorities in this regard.
Yr ail sylfaen reoliadol yw mesur ansawdd aer yng nghyffiniau safleoedd tirlenwi. Gwnaed cynnydd yn hyn o beth. Mae’r strategaeth ansawdd aer a gyhoeddwyd yn 2000 yn nodi safonau ac amcanion i wella ansawdd aer amgylchol. Mae’n ofynnol i awdurdodau lleol asesu ansawdd aer amgylchol ar gyfer saith prif llygrydd sydd o risg i iechyd. Nodwyd y llygryddion hyn. Pan na fydd yn debygol y cyflawnir amcanion y strategaeth, rhaid i awdurdod lleol ddatgan ardal rheoli ansawdd aer a llunio cynllun gweithredu. Mae’n ofynnol i awdurdodau lleol ystyried pob ffynhonnell o lygryddion perthnasol, gan gynnwys safleoedd tirlenwi. Mae tri awdurdod lleol yng Nghymru wedi datgan ardaloedd rheoli ansawdd aer. Yr wyf yn siŵr y byddai’r Aelodau yn cytuno, i ailafael ym mhwynt Mick, fod ymateb i bryderon cymunedau o ran ansawdd aer yn un o brif ddyletswyddau awdurdodau lleol. Mae Cyngor Sir Caerdydd a Chyngor Dinas a Sir Abertawe wedi datgan ardaloedd rheoli aer ar gyfer nitrogen diocsid, sy’n llygrydd o ffynonellau traffig ffordd. Gwnaeth Cyngor Bwrdeistref Sirol Castell-nedd Port Talbot yr un peth ar gyfer gronynnau o ffynonellau diwydiannol a thraffig ffordd. Nid oes unrhyw awdurdod lleol yng Nghymru wedi datgan ardal weithredu nac yn bwriadu gwneud hynny ychwaith ar sail gollyngiadau o nwy tirlenwi. Cyfeiriodd Geraint at y rhaglen monitro ansawdd aer wirfoddol yn Rhondda Cynon Taf, a chredaf y dylai pob awdurdod lleol yng Nghymru benderfynu ar flaenoriaethau yn hyn o beth.
We are consulting on revisions to the statutory guidance to local authorities in order to keep them abreast of developments, and guidance workshops were commissioned recently to evaluate this work. I make a commitment, in the same spirit as I approached Nantygwyddon, to revisit the guidance should technical information—
Yr ydym yn ymgynghori ar ddiwygiadau i’r canllawiau statudol i awdurdodau lleol er mwyn eu hysbysu’n rheolaidd am ddatblygiadau, a chomisiynwyd gweithdai cyfarwyddyd yn ddiweddar i werthuso’r gwaith hwn. Yr wyf yn ymrwymo, yn yr un ysbryd ag yr ymdriniais â Nantygwyddon, i ailystyried y canllawiau os bydd y wybodaeth dechnegol—
Brian Hancock a gododd—
Brian Hancock rose—
I would like to finish this point, Brian, as it is complicated and needs to be made now. I am sure you will have an opportunity to contribute later.
Hoffwn orffen y pwynt hwn, Brian, gan ei fod yn gymhleth ac mae angen ei wneud yn awr. Yr wyf yn siŵr y cewch gyfle i gyfrannu’n ddiweddarach.
I will revisit the guidance should technical information require us to strengthen it to deal with landfill emissions. Revised statutory guidance, issued by the Assembly, would largely secure the intention behind Geraint’s motion.
Ailystyriaf y canllawiau os bydd y wybodaeth dechnegol yn ei gwneud yn ofynnol inni eu cryfhau i ddelio â gollyngiadau tirlenwi. Byddai canllawiau statudol diwygiedig, a gyhoeddir gan y Cynulliad, yn cadarnhau’r bwriad y tu ôl i gynnig Geraint i raddau helaeth.
I turn to current and relevant research. We all understand that the issues raised by Geraint are of growing concern. The expanding environmental health agenda focuses on emissions from landfill sites and their potential health consequences. At present, there is insufficient information available to enable the Environment Agency to be specific, but it is carrying out commissioned research into landfill gas emissions and controls.
Trof at ymchwil gyfredol a pherthnasol. Yr ydym oll yn deall bod y materion a godwyd gan Geraint yn achosi pryder cynyddol. Mae agenda iechyd yr amgylchedd yn cynyddu ac yn canolbwyntio ar ollyngiadau o safleoedd tirlenwi a’u canlyniadau posibl o ran iechyd. Ar hyn o bryd, nid oes digon o wybodaeth ar gael i alluogi Asiantaeth yr Amgylchedd i fod yn benodol, ond mae’n cynnal ymchwil wedi ei chomisiynu i ollyngiadau a rheolaethau nwy tirlenwi.
Dafydd Elis-Thomas The Presiding Officer spoken in English p. 75
Dafydd Elis-Thomas Y Llywydd siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 75
Order. You have had eight minutes.
Trefn. Cawsoch wyth munud.
Do you want me to sum up? I thought that I had more time.
A ydych am imi grynhoi? Credais fod gennyf fwy o amser.
Dafydd Elis-Thomas The Presiding Officer spoken in English p. 76
Dafydd Elis-Thomas Y Llywydd siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 76
No, you have eight minutes during an hour’s debate.
Na, cewch wyth munud yn ystod dadl awr.
In conclusion, regulatory requirements on operators and local authorities are in place. Guidance is being prepared by the Environment Agency and research is ongoing. It would be discourteous to the American specialists working on the Nantygwyddon recommendations to take any action until we know what their conclusions are. Once we have those conclusions, you have my guarantee that we will take them seriously, and they will be made available to Members.
I gloi, mae gofynion rheoliadol ar weithredwyr ac awdurdodau lleol ar waith. Paratoir canllawiau gan Asiantaeth yr Amgylchedd ac mae ymchwil yn mynd rhagddi. Byddai’n anghwrtais i’r arbenigwyr Americanaidd sy’n gweithio ar argymhellion Nantygwyddon pe baem yn cymryd unrhyw gamau hyd cyn y gwyddom beth yw eu casgliadau. Unwaith y bydd y casgliadau hynny gennym, gwarantaf y byddwn yn eu cymryd o ddifrif, ac y byddant ar gael i’r Aelodau.
Geraint raised some of the points I wish to make, and I will further explain why Plaid Cymru thinks that the present legislative situation is inadequate and why our proposal will improve the control of emissions and the information that would be available, particularly to health professionals.
Cododd Geraint rai o’r pwyntiau y dymunaf eu gwneud, ac egluraf ymhellach pam y cred Plaid Cymru fod y sefyllfa ddeddfwriaethol bresennol yn annigonol a pham y bydd ein cynnig yn gwella’r rheolaeth dros ollyngiadau a’r wybodaeth a fyddai ar gael, yn arbennig i weithwyr proffesiynol ym maes iechyd.
The fact that we do not know fully the effects of trace gases is not an argument against this proposed legislation. The European landfill directive, which came into effect on 5 June this year, includes a range of regulatory controls over landfill sites that must be applied to new and existing landfill. Many of these controls reflect those already put in place through the waste management licensing regime under the Environmental Protection Act 1990. The directive introduces key changes, including the separation of landfill into three types and ending the current practice of co-disposal by 2004; the requirement to treat most waste before landfill; a ban on the use of landfills for certain waste, including liquid waste and waste which, in the conditions of landfill, is explosive, corrosive, oxidising, highly inflammable or flammable, and the introduction of waste acceptance criteria setting out types or characteristics of waste that can go to each class of landfill.
Nid yw’r ffaith na wyddom yn llawn am effeithiau nwyon hybrin yn ddadl yn erbyn y ddeddfwriaeth arfaethedig hon. Mae’r gyfarwyddeb tirlenwi Ewropeaidd, a ddaeth i rym ar 5 Mehefin eleni, yn cynnwys ystod o reolaethau rheoliadol dros safleoedd tirlenwi y mae’n rhaid eu cymhwyso i safleoedd tirlenwi newydd a rhai sy’n bodoli eisoes. Adlewyrcha llawer o’r rheolaethau hyn y rhai sydd eisoes ar waith drwy’r gyfundrefn drwyddedu rheoli gwastraff o dan Ddeddf Diogelu’r Amgylchedd 1990. Mae’r gyfarwyddeb yn cyflwyno newidiadau allweddol, gan gynnwys rhannu tirlenwi yn dri math a therfynu’r arfer presennol o gydwaredu erbyn 2004; y gofyniad i drin y rhan fwyaf o wastraff cyn ei anfon i safle tirlenwi; gwaharddiad ar ddefnyddio safleoedd tirlenwi ar gyfer rhai mathau o wastraff, gan gynnwys gwastraff hylifol a gwastraff sydd, o dan amodau tirlenwi, yn ffrwydrol, yn gyrydol, yn ocsideiddiol, yn fflamadwy neu’n llosgadwy iawn, a chyflwyno meini prawf derbyn gwastraff gan nodi’r mathau o wastraff neu nodweddion y gwastraff a all fynd i bob dosbarth tirlenwi.
Landfill sites are considered as installations, therefore the landfill directive is being implemented using the integrated pollution prevention and control regime, which has additional requirements to the landfill directive and has more provisions for standards for emissions. Landfill gas flares are operated under the IPPC regime. The single integrated permit that will be issued to landfill sites will be under this regime and will incorporate conditions reflecting the landfill directive and the IPPC regime. The 2002 regulations include provisions for existing landfill. It sets up a procedure for operators of landfill sites that are operational after 16 July 2002 to bring their operations into compliance with the relevant requirements of these regulations. Sites that cannot comply will have to close, with the rest being granted new permits as soon as possible within a transitional period to 31 March 2007—four and a half years from now.
Ystyrir safleoedd tirlenwi yn osodiadau, felly caiff y gyfarwyddeb tirlenwi ei gweithredu gan ddefnyddio’r gyfundrefn atal a rheoli llygredd integredig, sydd â gofynion ychwanegol i’r gyfarwyddeb tirlenwi ac sydd â mwy o ddarpariaethau ar gyfer safonau ar gyfer gollyngiadau. Gweithredir ffagliadau nwy tirlenwi o dan y gyfundrefn IPPC. Daw’r caniatâd integredig unigol a gaiff ei gyflwyno i safleoedd tirlenwi o dan y gyfundrefn hon a bydd yn ymgorffori amodau sy’n adlewyrchu’r gyfarwyddeb tirlenwi a’r gyfundrefn IPPC. Mae rheoliadau 2002 yn cynnwys darpariaethau ar gyfer safleoedd tirlenwi presennol. Sefydla weithdrefn ar gyfer gweithredwyr safleoedd tirlenwi sy’n weithredol ar ôl 16 Gorffennaf 2002 i sicrhau bod eu gweithrediadau yn cydymffurfio â gofynion perthnasol y rheoliadau hyn. Bydd yn rhaid i safleoedd na allant gydymffurfio â hyn gau, a rhoddir caniatâd newydd i’r gweddill cyn gynted â phosibl o fewn cyfnod trosiannol hyd at 31 Mawrth 2007—bedair blynedd a hanner o nawr.
Statutory monitoring of communities within a proximate zone of landfill sites is an important element of our proposal. At present, there is no statutory requirement to monitor emissions from landfill or flares within communities. The monitoring requirements in the IPPC regime and landfill directive do not detail where monitoring should take place. Provisions for monitoring some chemicals in landfill sites are in transition for old sites until 2007. The legislation we propose would use the powers of the National Assembly for Wales now in order to assess the risk to public health and address public concern. Why wait for the transitional period to 2007, when we could use the Assembly’s powers to assess possible risks to the health of the people of Wales? Why not get ahead of the game? We all remember the fridges fiasco, which is still with us.
Mae monitro cymunedau’n statudol gerllaw safleoedd tirlenwi yn elfen bwysig o’n cynnig. Ar hyn o bryd, nid oes unrhyw ofyniad statudol i fonitro gollyngiadau o safleoedd tirlenwi neu ffagliadau o fewn cymunedau. Nid yw’r gofynion monitro yn y gyfundrefn IPPC a’r gyfarwyddeb tirlenwi yn crybwyll yn fanwl lle y dylid cynnal y gwaith monitro. Mae darpariaethau ar gyfer monitro rhai cemegion mewn safleoedd tirlenwi yn y cyfnod trosi ar gyfer hen safleoedd tan 2007. Byddai’r ddeddfwriaeth a gynigiwn yn defnyddio pwerau Cynulliad Cenedlaethol Cymru yn awr er mwyn asesu’r risg i iechyd y cyhoedd ac ymdrin â phryder y cyhoedd. Pam aros am y cyfnod trosiannol hyd at 2007, pan gallem ddefnyddio pwerau’r Cynulliad i asesu’r risgiau posibl i iechyd pobl Cymru? Pam na ellir achub y blaen? Cofia pob un ohonom am ffiasgo’r oergelloedd, sydd gennym o hyd.
The IPPC directive has provisions for monitoring and setting standards for emissions of landfill gases. However, it is also in a transitional period until 2007. There is also lack of clarity, as the Environment Agency is still awaiting advice from the Department for Environment, Food and Rural Affairs on how this will happen. Some within the industry will do their best to implement best practice quickly, but some may not. The Minster referred to the Environment Agency’s interim internal technical guidance entitled ‘Best Practice Flaring of Landfill Gas’, which is due to be updated and is expected shortly. However, this document only contains guidance notes for internal use, although it is open to private operators. Our main argument is that this is only guidance, and its provisions do not have statutory requirements.
Mae gan y gyfarwyddeb IPPC ddarpariaethau ar gyfer monitro a gosod safonau ar gyfer gollyngiadau o nwyon tirlenwi. Fodd bynnag, mae hefyd mewn cyfnod trosiannol tan 2007. Ceir diffyg eglurdeb hefyd, gan fod Asiantaeth yr Amgylchedd yn dal i aros am gyngor gan Adran yr Amgylchedd, Bwyd a Materion Gwledig ar y modd y bydd hyn yn digwydd. Bydd rhai o fewn y diwydiant yn gwneud eu gorau i weithredu arferion gorau yn gyflym, ond efallai na fydd eraill. Cyfeiriodd y Gweinidog at ganllawiau technegol mewnol interim Asiantaeth yr Amgylchedd o’r enw ‘Best Practice Flaring of Landfill Gas’, a gaiff ei ddiweddaru cyn bo hir ac a ddisgwylir yn fuan. Fodd bynnag, dim ond nodiadau canllaw ar gyfer defnydd mewnol sydd yn y ddogfen hon, er ei bod yn agored i weithredwyr preifat. Ein prif ddadl yw mai canllawiau yn unig yw’r rhain, ac nid oes gan ei darpariaethau ofynion statudol.
The Welsh Liberal Democrats sympathise greatly with this motion. No-one doubts that public concern about landfill emissions remains high, particularly in north Wales. It is appropriate for the Assembly to respond and make clear its commitment to address the issues as soon as possible. However, I agree with the Minster for Environment that it would be premature to vote for this motion, which addresses a complicated issue, while information is still being gathered. I am assured that this issue will continue to be at the forefront of her mind as the evidence is gathered. The Minister has always taken a robust line on this issue in the past, including in relation to the recent matter of Ysgol John Bright, which I hope is now resolved. That is why the Assembly Government commissioned three reports to examine the evidence of the air quality around landfill sites.
Mae Democratiaid Rhyddfrydol Cymru yn cydymdeimlo’n fawr â’r cynnig hwn. Nid oes neb yn amau bod y cyhoedd yn pryderu llawer ynghylch gollyngiadau tirlenwi o hyd, yn arbennig yn y Gogledd. Mae’n briodol i’r Cynulliad ymateb ac addo ymdrin â’r materion cyn gynted â phosibl. Fodd bynnag, cytunaf â’r Gweinidog dros yr Amgylchedd y byddai’n rhy gynnar i bleidleisio dros y cynnig hwn, sy’n ymdrin â mater cymhleth, tra bod y wybodaeth yn cael ei chasglu o hyd. Fe’m sicrheir y bydd y mater hwn ar flaen ei meddwl o hyd wrth i’r dystiolaeth gael ei chasglu. Mae’r Gweinidog wedi arddel barn gadarn ar y mater hwn yn y gorffennol, gan gynnwys mewn perthynas â mater diweddar Ysgol John Bright, sydd bellach wedi ei ddatrys gobeithio. Dyna pam y comisiynodd Llywodraeth y Cynulliad dri adroddiad i archwilio tystiolaeth ansawdd yr aer o amgylch safleoedd tirlenwi.
Yn anffodus, nid yw mater Ysgol John Bright wedi ei ddatrys. Ni all Llywodraeth Cymru ar hyn o bryd ond gofyn a fyddai rhyw fonitro o bosibl. Nid oes gorfodaeth ar yr awdurdod i ymateb yn bositif. Yn hynny o beth y mae’r anhawster a’r bygythiad i’r dyfodol.
Unfortunately, the matter of Ysgol John Bright has not been resolved. As things stand, the Government of Wales can only ask if some monitoring will take place. The authority is not obliged to respond positively. That is where the future difficulties and threat lie.
Eleanor Burnham siaradwyd yn Gymraeg ac yn Saesneg t. 78
Eleanor Burnham spoken in Welsh and English p. 78
Yr wyf yn cytuno â’r hyn a ddywedwch, i raddau. Fodd bynnag, daethom â’r mater gerbron y Gweinidog, ac mae wedi ei ailystyried gyda’r Gweinidog dros Iechyd a Gwasanaethau Cymdeithasol. Felly, yr ydym wedi gwneud cymaint ag y gallwn ar hyn o bryd.
in Welsh I concur with that to some extent. However, we have brought the matter before the Minister, and she has reconsidered it with the Minister for Health and Social Services. Therefore, we have accomplished as much as we can at the present time.
The first of the reports looks specifically at the Nantygwyddon site. The other two are being prepared by the Environment Agency and look at landfill sites across England and Wales and monitoring ambient air quality through the use of mobile equipment. I am pleased to note that more units may become available if capacity remains an issue. It is imperative to introduce preventative measures designed to address the issues identified from the evidence once it is gathered. That is why it is important to respond to the evidence in a timely fashion rather than impose potentially unnecessary regulations on local authorities, which might have to be changed in the light of more facts. The Welsh Liberal Democrats believe that possible exposure to air pollution is an issue for everybody, not just communities around landfill sites. Appropriate resources must be targeted at priority areas and must be needs-based. We do not want additional, unnecessary regulations, but we do want to see appropriate action taken as quickly as possible, as promised by the Minister.
yn Saesneg Mae’r cyntaf o’r adroddiadau yn edrych yn benodol ar safle Nantygwyddon. Mae’r ddau arall yn cael eu paratoi gan Asiantaeth yr Amgylchedd ac yn edrych ar safleoedd tirlenwi ledled Cymru a Lloegr ac ar fonitro ansawdd aer amgylchol drwy ddefnyddio cyfarpar symudol. Mae’n bleser gennyf nodi y bydd mwy o unedau ar gael efallai os bydd capasiti yn parhau i fod yn broblem. Mae’n hanfodol cyflwyno mesurau ataliol a gynllunnir i ymdrin â’r materion a nodwyd o’r dystiolaeth unwaith y caiff ei chasglu. Dyna pam mae’n bwysig ymateb i’r dystiolaeth mewn modd amserol yn hytrach na gosod rheoliadau diangen o bosibl ar awdurdodau lleol, y bydd yn rhaid eu newid efallai yng ngoleuni mwy o ffeithiau. Cred Democratiaid Rhyddfrydol Cymru fod dod i gysylltiad posibl â llygredd aer yn broblem i bawb, nid i gymunedau o amgylch safleoedd tirlenwi yn unig. Rhaid targedu adnoddau priodol at ardaloedd blaenoriaethol a rhaid iddynt fod ar sail anghenion. Nid ydym am gael rheoliadau ychwanegol, diangen, ond yr ydym am weld camau priodol yn cael eu cymryd mor gyflym â phosibl fel yr addawodd y Gweinidog.
Mae’r pwynt yr wyf am ei bwysleisio yn ymwneud â monitro sefyllfa a all fod yn beryglus ac yn fygythiol i iechyd a diogelwch. Unig rym y Cynulliad yw dyheu, gofyn ac ymbil ar yr awdurdod lleol i fonitro. Mae Geraint Davies am sicrwydd y bydd monitro fel y cawn wybod wedyn a oes bygythiad o gwbl. Gallwn fesur hynny ac osgoi pa fygythiad bynnag i iechyd. Mae cymaint yn dibynnu ar ewyllys da yn hytrach na grym ac awdurdod y Llywodraeth i sicrhau bod monitro gofalus. Dyna pam y dylech gefnogi’r cynnig ger eich bron.
The point that I want to stress concerns monitoring a situation that could be hazardous and threatening to health and safety. The Assembly’s only power is to seek, ask and beg the local authority to undertake monitoring. Geraint Davies wants an assurance that monitoring will take place so that we will then know if there is any threat. We can measure that and avoid any threat to health that may exist. So much depends on good will, rather than the power and authority of the Government to ensure that careful monitoring takes place. That is why you should support the motion before you.
Landfill is a major issue in my constituency. In the west of my constituency, landfill sites are never far from the headlines. Ironically, my local authority, Neath Port Talbot County Borough Council, which the Minister mentioned, took the lead in setting up a waste management facility, which included an incineration capacity. That in turn gave rise to another range of problems. My constituents are concerned about health problems arising from landfill and air quality. Also, my constituency frequently finds itself in the media spotlight for being at the wrong end of the league table in terms of air quality throughout the United Kingdom. However, those league tables give scant credit to the progress that our local authority has made in improving the overall air quality in the Neath Port Talbot. The good work continues.
Mae tirlenwi yn fater o bwys yn fy etholaeth i. Yn ardal orllewinol fy etholaeth, mae’r safleoedd tirlenwi yn aml yn destun sylw yn y wasg. Yn eironig, achubodd fy awdurdod lleol, Cyngor Bwrdeistref Sirol Castell-nedd Port Talbot, y soniodd y Gweinidog amdano, y blaen drwy sefydlu cyfleuster rheoli gwastraff, a oedd yn cynnwys y gallu i losgi gwastraff. Yn ei dro, arweiniodd hynny at ystod arall o broblemau. Mae fy etholwyr yn gofidio am broblemau iechyd sy’n deillio o safleoedd tirlenwi ac ansawdd aer. Hefyd, daw fy etholaeth yn aml i sylw’r wasg am fod ar ben anghywir tabl y gynghrair o ran ansawdd aer ledled y Deyrnas Unedig. Fodd bynnag, prin bod y tablau cynghrair hynny yn cydnabod y cynnydd a wnaeth ein hawdurdod lleol wrth wella ansawdd aer cyffredinol Castell-nedd Port Talbot. Mae’r gwaith da yn parhau.
On Geraint’s motion, it is important to acknowledge that there is widespread concern about a perceived pollution risk, particularly in relation to waste management facilities in my constituency. Equally, there is much concern about a wide range of industrial processes in my constituency, and less concern, surprisingly, about transport emissions, even though they are one of the greatest risks to health. There is a need for greater public awareness of that. Our local authorities have a responsibility to monitor the pollution emerging from all of these potential sources. I am concerned about Geraint’s amendments. If we point out a specific area as requiring mandatory monitoring at this particular stage, the other issues to which we have referred may become less important. Local authorities have a mandatory obligation to ensure an overall level of air quality. In my constituency, that commitment to overall air quality is of utmost importance. It is our local authority’s duty to ensure that air quality in the Neath Port Talbot area is properly monitored. If the air quality does not meet a sufficient standard, then the authority must take appropriate action.
O ran cynnig Geraint, mae’n bwysig cydnabod bod pryder cyffredinol ynglŷn â risg gydnabyddedig o lygredd, yn arbennig mewn perthynas â chyfleusterau rheoli gwastraff yn fy etholaeth. Yn yr un modd, mae llawer o bryder am ystod eang o brosesau diwydiannol yn fy etholaeth, a llai o bryder, yn rhyfeddol, am ollyngiadau trafnidiaeth, er eu bod yn un o’r risgiau mwyaf i iechyd. Mae angen mwy o ymwybyddiaeth ymhlith y cyhoedd o hynny. Mae gan ein hawdurdodau lleol gyfrifoldeb dros fonitro’r llygredd a ddaw o’r holl ffynonellau posibl hyn. Pryderaf ynghylch gwelliannau Geraint. Os nodwn faes penodol y mae angen ei fonitro’n orfodol ar yr adeg benodol hon, efallai y daw’r materion eraill y cyfeiriasom atynt yn llai pwysig. Mae gan awdurdodau lleol ddyletswydd orfodol i sicrhau lefel gyffredinol o ansawdd aer. Yn fy etholaeth, mae’r ymrwymiad hwnnw i ansawdd aer cyffredinol yn hollbwysig. Dyletswydd ein hawdurdod lleol yw sicrhau y caiff ansawdd aer yn ardal Castell-nedd Port Talbot ei fonitro’n briodol. Os nad yw’r ansawdd aer yn cyrraedd safon ddigonol, yna rhaid i’r awdurdod gymryd y camau priodol.
If we are suggesting that there is a need to monitor gas emissions from landfill sites, the evidence that they constitute a significant health risk at this particular stage is limited. As the Minister said, the main emitting gases are carbon dioxide and methane. They are potent greenhouse gases, but there is no substantive evidence to suggest that they constitute a health risk. It concerns me that undue significance will be given to that one factor when there are many other areas of concern in my constituency, and when we have such a broad-based campaign to improve the quality of air in the Neath Port Talbot area.
Os awgrymwn fod angen monitro gollyngiadau nwyon o safleoedd tirlenwi, mae’r dystiolaeth eu bod yn gyfystyr â risg sylweddol i iechyd ar yr adeg arbennig hon yn gyfyngedig. Fel y dywedodd y Gweinidog, y prif nwyon sy’n gollwng yw carbon diocsid a methan. Maent yn nwyon tŷ gwydr cryf, ond nid oes tystiolaeth gadarn i awgrymu eu bod yn gyfystyr â risg i iechyd. Pryderaf y rhoddir gormod o bwys ar yr un ffactor hwnnw tra bod llawer o feysydd eraill yn achosi pryder yn fy etholaeth, a phan fo gennym ymgyrch mor eang i wella ansawdd aer yn ardal Castell-nedd Port Talbot.
Monitoring is important, but it must not only be used to ensure good air quality and a good environment; the public must be reassured. The results of that monitoring should be more accessible to the public, and that must be worked on. In other words, this information must not be hidden away on a website where you have to be an internet geek to succeed in getting that information. The principles that Geraint have outlined have merit, but they need further thought, particularly to address areas such as my constituency, where there is widespread concern about a wide range of air quality issues.
Mae monitro yn bwysig, ond ni ddylid ei ddefnyddio i sicrhau ansawdd aer da ac amgylchedd da yn unig; rhaid tawelu meddyliau’r cyhoedd. Dylai canlyniadau’r monitro hwnnw fod yn fwy hygyrch i’r cyhoedd, a rhaid gweithio ar hynny. Hynny yw, ni ddylid cuddio’r wybodaeth hon ar wefan lle mae’n rhaid ichi fod yn athrylith ar y rhyngrwyd i lwyddo i gael y wybodaeth honno. Mae’r egwyddorion a amlinellodd Geraint yn haeddu clod, ond mae angen eu hystyried ymhellach. Yn benodol, mae angen ymdrin ag ardaloedd megis fy etholaeth i, lle mae pryder cyffredinol ynghylch ystod eang o faterion sy’n ymwneud ag ansawdd aer.
I thank Geraint for raising this important subject. Like me, I am sure that he receives many representations about the effects of landfill on people’s health. Trecatti, our biggest landfill site, is a continuing cause of concern to the people of Merthyr, and Dowlais in particular, where the effects are felt the most. I agree with the general point of this debate and the wider concern about the impact of landfill sites on health and communities. These are the issues that concern most of the people in my constituency. I recognise and share their desire to see the end of landfill sites, specifically at Trecatti. However, on the specific issue that Geraint raised, I am concerned that an opportunity has been missed. As the Minister explained, much of what Geraint talked about is already ongoing, and there are more far-reaching and wider implications to this debate. Different issues could have been better addressed. I have a particular interest in developing a policy of good neighbour agreements in Wales, which were introduced by the Scottish Parliament, in terms of landfill and opencast schemes. Plaid Cymru has energetically undermined that approach in my constituency. We have heard much sweet reason from Plaid Cymru today, but that is not reflected locally.
Diolchaf i Geraint am godi’r pwnc pwysig hwn. Fel minnau, mae’n siŵr ei fod yn cael llawer o sylwadau ynghylch effeithiau tirlenwi ar iechyd pobl. Mae Trecatti, ein safle tirlenwi mwyaf, yn achos pryder parhaus i bobl Merthyr, a Dowlais yn arbennig, lle y teimlir yr effeithiau fwyaf. Cytunaf â phwynt cyffredinol y ddadl hon a’r pryder ehangach am effaith safleoedd tirlenwi ar iechyd a chymunedau. Mae’r rhain yn faterion sy’n pryderu’r rhan fwyaf o’r bobl yn fy etholaeth. Yr wyf yn cydnabod ac yn rhannu eu dymuniad i weld diwedd safleoedd tirlenwi, yn benodol yn Nhrecatti. Fodd bynnag, o ran y mater penodol a gododd Geraint, pryderaf fod cyfle wedi ei golli. Fel yr eglurodd y Gweinidog, mae llawer o’r hyn y soniodd Geraint amdano eisoes yn mynd rhagddo, ac mae mwy o oblygiadau pellgyrhaeddol ac ehangach i’r ddadl hon. Gellid bod wedi ymdrin yn well â materion gwahanol. Mae gennyf ddiddordeb penodol mewn datblygu polisi o gytundebau cymdogion da yng Nghymru, a gyflwynwyd gan Senedd yr Alban, o ran cynlluniau tirlenwi a mwyngloddio brig. Mae Plaid Cymru wedi ymdrechu’n gryf i danseilio’r ymagwedd honno yn fy etholaeth. Clywsom lawer o resymu sebonllyd gan Blaid Cymru heddiw, ond ni chaiff hynny ei adlewyrchu’n lleol.
As long as landfill sites continue to be needed, we must secure the best possible terms for local residents. We cannot enforce terms on the operating companies without significant legislative changes, but, where possible, we should encourage voluntary agreements. These can range from agreements over the times of day when lorries deliver, and so on, to agreements for community investment projects, which has worked successfully in Merthyr. I look forward to Geraint’s comments on that.
Cyhyd â bod angen am safleoedd tirlenwi, rhaid inni sicrhau’r telerau gorau posibl i drigolion lleol. Ni allwn orfodi telerau ar y cwmnïau gweithredu heb newidiadau deddfwriaethol sylweddol, ond, lle bo hynny’n bosibl, dylem annog cytundebau gwirfoddol. Gall y rhain amrywio o gytundebau ynghylch yr adegau o’r dydd y mae lorïau’n dosbarthu gwastraff, ac yn y blaen, i gytundebau ar gyfer prosiectau buddsoddi yn y gymuned, sydd wedi gweithio’n llwyddiannus ym Merthyr. Edrychaf ymlaen at sylwadau Geraint ar hynny.
Over the last three years, I have worked with local residents in my constituency on a range of landfill issues. We are beginning to see a difference. The shared aim in the community is still to see the site closed. However, until that happens, people want to work with the company and with the Environment Agency to ensure that improvements are made. It is disappointing to see, occasionally, some politicians parachute themselves into Merthyr and raise false hopes about public inquiries and the immediate closure of the Trecatti site. They would have more credibility if they worked with the residents on the days when the cameras are not there. For some people, the primary concern has not been solving the problems of waste disposal, but making people afraid—afraid of landfill, of incineration, and of whichever waste disposal option you take, depending on where you are in Wales. It is the worst kind of opportunist politics, creating alarm when we should be promoting dialogue.
Dros y tair blynedd diwethaf, yr wyf wedi gweithio gyda thrigolion lleol yn fy etholaeth ar ystod o faterion tirlenwi. Yr ydym yn dechrau gweld gwahaniaeth. Y nod a rennir yn y gymuned o hyd yw gweld y safle’n cau. Fodd bynnag, hyd nes y digwydd hynny, mae pobl am weithio gyda’r cwmni a chydag Asiantaeth yr Amgylchedd i sicrhau y gwneir gwelliannau. Mae’n siomedig gweld, o bryd i’w gilydd, rai gwleidyddion yn mynd i Ferthyr ac yn codi gobeithion ffug am ymchwiliadau cyhoeddus a chau safle Trecatti ar unwaith. Byddai ganddynt fwy o hygrededd pe baent yn gweithio gyda’r trigolion ar y dyddiau pan nad yw’r camerâu yno. I rai pobl, nid datrys problemau gwaredu gwastraff fu’r pwys mwyaf, ond codi ofn ar bobl—ofn tirlenwi, ofn llosgi, a pha opsiwn gwaredu gwastraff bynnag a gymerwch, yn dibynnu ar ble yr ydych yng Nghymru. Dyma’r math gwaethaf o wleidyddiaeth fanteisgar, sy’n codi braw pan ddylem fod yn hyrwyddo deialog.
I will not be satisfied until Trecatti and all other landfill sites in Wales are closed. There are concerns about the health impacts of these sites. There is still some way to go before people are convinced that the monitoring arrangements in place—
Ni fyddaf yn fodlon hyd nes y caiff Trecatti a phob safle tirlenwi arall yng Nghymru eu cau. Mae pryderon am effeithiau iechyd y safleoedd hyn. Erys rhywfaint i’w wneud o hyd cyn y bydd pobl wedi eu hargyhoeddi bod y trefniadau monitro ar waith—
Phil Williams a gododd—
Phil Williams rose—
Dafydd Elis-Thomas The Presiding Officer spoken in English p. 82
Dafydd Elis-Thomas The Presiding Officer siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 82
Order. Because of the structure of this Chamber, Huw, you cannot see that Phil Williams is trying to intervene.
Y Llywydd: Trefn. Oherwydd sdrwythur y Siambr hon, Huw, ni allwch weld bod Phil Williams yn ceisio ymyrryd.
Do you not regard asking for an inquiry to be the responsible action of people representing that area, Huw? There are fears, and there have been problems, which have been ignored over many years. I resent any suggestion that pressing for an objective inquiry is in any way opportunistic and not instead representing the legitimate concerns of the people who have been forced to live in Dowlais.
Onid ystyriwch fod gofyn am ymchwiliad yn weithred gyfrifol ar ran y bobl sy’n cynrychioli’r ardal honno, Huw? Mae pryderon, a bu problemau, a chawsant eu hanwybyddu dros lawer o flynyddoedd. Gwrthodaf unrhyw awgrym fod pwyso am ymchwiliad gwrthrychol mewn unrhyw ffordd yn fanteisgar ac nid hytrach yn cynrychioli pryderon go iawn y bobl a orfodwyd i fyw yn Nowlais.
You are welcome to resent it, Phil. However, Plaid Cymru has followed the line of least resistance in my constituency. Calling for an inquiry is easy—it is simple to say that and to rally the support of the opposition and promote alarm in the community by calling for it.
Mae croeso ichi ei wrthod, Phil. Fodd bynnag, mae Plaid Cymru wedi mabwysiadu ymagwedd y gwrthsafiad lleiaf yn fy etholaeth i. Mae galw am ymchwiliad yn hawdd—mae’n hawdd dweud hynny a galw am gefnogaeth yr wrthblaid a chodi braw yn y gymuned drwy ofyn amdano.
The alarm is there.
Mae’r braw yno.
Dafydd Elis-Thomas The Presiding Officer spoken in English p. 83
Dafydd Elis-Thomas Y Llywydd siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 83
Order. We cannot have further debate. We have had one intervention. I believe that Huw Lewis is about to conclude his speech with, no doubt, a suitable flourish.
Trefn. Ni allwn gael dadl bellach. Cawsom un ymyriad. Credaf fod Huw Lewis ar fin dod â’i araith i ben gyda diweddglo blodeuog addas, mae’n siŵr gennyf.
I was flourishing. You have thrown me off my pitch, Presiding Officer.
Yr oeddwn yn blodeuo. Yr ydych wedi fy nrysu, Lywydd.
There is some way to go before people are convinced that the monitoring arrangements in place are sufficient. That is accepted. Ultimately, we must move away from our reliance on landfill. The waste strategy is a huge step in that direction, with ambitious yet achievable targets for recycling. The move away from landfill must be planned, and funding for it must be delivered. We must reduce the impact on people’s health as far as possible. This debate could have been an opportunity to contribute to that discussion. Unfortunately, Plaid Cymru has, as usual, missed the point.
Mae peth ffordd i fynd cyn y bydd pobl yn argyhoeddedig bod y trefniadau monitro sydd ar waith yn ddigonol. Derbynnir hynny. Yn y pen draw, rhaid inni symud i ffwrdd o’n dibyniaeth ar dirlenwi. Mae’r strategaeth gwastraff yn gam enfawr i’r cyfeiriad hwnnw, gyda thargedau uchelgeisiol ond cyraeddadwy ar gyfer ailgylchu. Rhaid cynllunio’r cam i ffwrdd oddi wrth dirlenwi a rhaid darparu’r arian ar ei gyfer. Rhaid inni leihau’r effaith ar iechyd pobl gymaint â phosibl. Gallai’r ddadl hon fod wedi bod yn gyfle i gyfrannu at y drafodaeth honno. Yn anffodus, mae Plaid Cymru, fel arfer, wedi camddeall.
I also believe that the proposed legislation is pre-emptive. The Minister for Environment has shown that regulations are in place to cover our existing knowledge. Before we introduce further regulation, we must be sure of the facts. To this end, further research is under way, and information is being collected. Sue has already given us details of this research, some of which is happening as a result of our own investigation and report on Nantygwyddon. Recognised experts, such as those from the American Agency for Toxic Substances and Disease Registry, are gathering additional evidence in the Nantygwyddon area. It is due to report back in a few weeks’ time. As a responsible Government, it is imperative that we respond to the information and the evidence. It would be irresponsible to pre-empt the results of this research.
Credaf hefyd fod y ddeddfwriaeth arfaethedig yn rhagataliol. Dangosodd y Gweinidog dros yr Amgylchedd fod rheoliadau ar waith i gwmpasu ein gwybodaeth bresennol. Cyn inni gyflwyno rheoliadau eraill, rhaid i’r ffeithiau fod yn gadarn. I’r perwyl hwn, gwneir rhagor o ymchwil a chesglir gwybodaeth. Mae Sue eisoes wedi rhoi manylion yr ymchwil hon inni, y mae rhywfaint ohoni’n digwydd o ganlyniad i’n hymchwiliad ein hunain a’r adroddiad ar Nantygwyddon. Mae arbenigwyr cydnabyddedig, megis y rhai o’r American Agency for Toxic Substances and Disease Registry, yn casglu tystiolaeth ychwanegol yn ardal Nantygwyddon. Disgwylir iddynt gyflwyno adroddiad mewn ychydig wythnosau. Fel Llywodraeth gyfrifol, mae’n hanfodol ein bod yn ymateb i’r wybodaeth a’r dystiolaeth. Byddai’n anghyfrifol achub y blaen ar ganlyniadau’r ymchwil hon.
Yet again, Plaid Cymru claims that it has the monopoly on caring and concern. It does not. There are landfill sites in my area. I am concerned about this, and want to get it right, as do other Members who have landfill sites in their areas. However, as responsible decision-makers, we must be careful not to pre-empt investigations that are still taking place. We are doing all that we can to increase our knowledge. We can then introduce purpose-made statutory guidance based on facts, not fear. That is important.
Unwaith eto, honna Plaid Cymru fod ganddi’r monopoli ar ofal a phryder. Nid oes ganddi. Mae safleoedd tirlenwi yn fy ardal i. Gofidiaf am hyn, ac yr wyf am wneud pethau’n iawn, fel y mae Aelodau eraill sydd â safleoedd tirlenwi yn eu hardaloedd hwy. Fodd bynnag, fel pobl gyfrifol sy’n gwneud penderfyniadau, rhaid inni fod yn ofalus i beidio ag achub y blaen ar ymchwiliadau sy’n mynd rhagddynt o hyd. Yr ydym yn gwneud ein gorau i gynyddu ein gwybodaeth. Yna gallwn gyflwyno canllawiau statudol a luniwyd i’r pwrpas yn seiliedig ar ffeithiau, ac nid ar ofn. Mae hynny’n bwysig.
That statutory guidance is an alternative to the legislative route proposed by Geraint Davies. Through section 88.1 of the Environment Act 1995, the Assembly can issue statutory guidance to local authorities on the exercise of their responsibilities in this regard. Statutory means statutory. Under section 88.2, the Act requires local authorities to have regard to this guidance when carrying out and undertaking the relevant duties. This is the most sensible way forward. It is quicker, more inclusive, and more easily applied and amended, if need be, than the secondary legislation proposed. I support Sue’s approach of taking action based on evidence.
Mae’r canllawiau statudol yn ddewis amgen i’r llwybr deddfwriaethol a gynigiwyd gan Geraint Davies. Drwy adran 88.1 Deddf yr Amgylchedd 1995, gall y Cynulliad gyhoeddi canllawiau statudol i awdurdodau lleol ar ymarfer eu cyfrifoldebau yn hyn o beth. Mae statudol yn golygu statudol. O dan adran 88.2, mae’r Ddeddf yn ei gwneud yn ofynnol i awdurdodau lleol ystyried y canllawiau hyn wrth gyflawni ac ymgymryd â’r dyletswyddau perthnasol. Dyma’r ffordd fwyaf synhwyrol ymlaen. O’i chymharu â’r is-ddeddfwriaeth a gynigiwyd, mae’n gyflymach, yn fwy cynhwysol, ac, os bydd angen, gellir ei chymhwyso a’i newid yn haws. Cefnogaf ymagwedd Sue, sef gweithredu ar sail tystiolaeth.
I thank everyone who has contributed to the debate. It has been a useful exercise. I am disappointed, however, that the Government will not support the motion. David Davies mentioned the benefits of incineration. I cannot agree with that. The answer is to greatly expand our present recycling facilities.
Diolchaf i bawb a gyfrannodd at y ddadl. Bu’n ymarfer defnyddiol. Yr wyf yn siomedig, fodd bynnag, na wnaiff y Llywodraeth gefnogi’r cynnig. Soniodd David Davies am fanteision llosgi. Ni allaf gytuno â hynny. Yr ateb yw ehangu ein cyfleusterau ailgylchu presennol yn helaeth.
I agree that we must re-use and recycle. However, we cannot deal with all our waste that way.
Cytunaf fod yn rhaid inni ailddefnyddio ac ailgylchu. Fodd bynnag, ni allwn ddelio â’n holl wastraff yn y ffordd honno.
Thank you for that clarification, David, and for withdrawing amendment 2. Sue mentioned the complexity of emissions from landfill sites. That is why we want to monitor them, to see exactly what is being emitted. Methane and carbon dioxide constitute the large part of most emissions, but there are other, more dangerous chemicals released that we should consider. Monitoring should be tailored for each individual landfill site, depending on its problems.
Diolch ichi am yr eglurhad hwnnw, David, ac am dynnu gwelliant 2 yn ôl. Soniodd Sue am gymhlethdod y gollyngiadau o safleoedd tirlenwi. Dyna pam yr ydym am eu monitro, er mwyn gweld yn union beth sydd yn cael ei ollwng. Mae’r rhan fwyaf o ollyngiadau yn cynnwys methan a charbon diocsid yn bennaf, ond rhyddheir cemegion eraill, mwy peryglus y dylem eu hystyried. Dylai gwaith monitro gael ei deilwra i bob safle tirlenwi unigol, yn dibynnu ar ei broblemau.
We would welcome the American Agency for Toxic Substances and Disease Registry to Rhondda. However, it will have to work on evidence. This is about gathering evidence to make proposals. The Assembly and, specifically, the Environment, Planning and Transport Committee, spent 18 months investigating Nantygwyddon. We came up with conclusions, which we should operate. We should not rely on the Americans to tell us what to do. The landfill directive will not be fully functional until 2007, as Janet said. We cannot afford to wait four and a half years until it is fully implemented. On monitoring air quality for other sources of pollution, that is good. We must monitor where we have problems with traffic and other industrial processes. However, it should be in addition to that, not in place of it.
Byddem yn croesawu’r American Agency for Toxic Substances and Disease Registry i’r Rhondda. Fodd bynnag, bydd yn rhaid iddi weithio ar dystiolaeth. Mae a wnelo hynny â chasglu tystiolaeth ar gyfer gwneud cynigion. Treuliodd y Cynulliad ac, yn benodol, Pwyllgor yr Amgylchedd, Cynllunio a Thrafnidiaeth, 18 mis yn ymchwilio i Nantygwyddon. Daethom i gasgliadau y dylem weithredu arnynt. Ni ddylem ddibynnu ar yr Americaniaid i ddweud wrthym beth i’w wneud. Ni fydd y gyfarwyddeb tirlenwi yn llawn weithredol tan 2007, fel y dywedodd Janet. Ni allwn fforddio aros pedair blynedd a hanner nes y bydd wedi ei gweithredu’n llawn. O ran monitro ansawdd aer ar gyfer ffynonellau eraill o lygredd, mae hynny’n beth da. Rhaid inni fonitro lle mae gennym broblemau gyda thraffig a phrosesau diwydiannol eraill. Fodd bynnag, dylai fod yn ychwanegol at hynny ac nid yn ei le.
Janet mentioned the landfill directive, to which I have already referred. Eleanor Burnham said that our proposal was premature. It is not. We need evidence on which to base our health studies. That is what David Purchon said. We did not have enough evidence to link problems to health studies in Nantygwyddon. Gareth Jones mentioned the need for mandatory powers. We have had enough guidance. The Environment Agency has had a poor record in implementing mandatory issues, let alone guidance. We need power behind this. Brian Gibbons also mentioned the monitoring of industrial processes. However, our proposal is in addition to, not in place of that.
Soniodd Janet am y gyfarwyddeb tirlenwi, y cyfeiriais ati eisoes. Dywedodd Eleanor Burnham fod ein cynnig yn gynamserol. Nid ydyw. Mae angen tystiolaeth arnom er mwyn seilio ein hastudiaethau iechyd arni. Dyna a ddywedodd David Purchon. Nid oedd gennym ddigon o dystiolaeth i gysylltu’r problemau â’r astudiaethau iechyd yn Nantygwyddon. Soniodd Gareth Jones am yr angen am bwerau gorfodol. Cawsom ddigon o ganllawiau. Bu gan Asiantaeth yr Amgylchedd record wael o weithredu materion gorfodol, heb sôn am ganllawiau. Mae angen grym y tu ôl i hyn. Soniodd Brian Gibbons hefyd am fonitro prosesau diwydiannol. Fodd bynnag, mae ein cynnig yn ychwanegol at hynny, ac nid yn ei le.
Huw Lewis mentioned Trecatti. Rhondda Cynon Taf County Borough Council is leading the way on recycling. It has an ambitious recycling programme. This year it will recycle 10 per cent of its waste—up from 0 per cent a few years ago—and we are expanding on that quickly. That is the way forward. Karen said that we are being pre-emptive—we are not. We want to get the facts so that we can make the best decisions for the future. That is what this is about. We need to ensure statutory powers.
Soniodd Huw Lewis am Drecatti. Mae Cyngor Bwrdeistref Sirol Rhondda Cynon Taf yn arwain o ran ailgylchu. Mae ganddo raglen ailgylchu uchelgeisiol. Eleni bydd yn ailgylchu 10 y cant o’i wastraff—sydd wedi codi o 0 y cant ychydig flynyddoedd yn ôl—ac yr ydym yn ehangu hynny’n gyflym. Dyna’r ffordd ymlaen. Dywedodd Karen ein bod yn rhagataliol—nid ydym. Yr ydym am gael y ffeithiau fel y gallwn wneud y penderfyniadau gorau ar gyfer y dyfodol. Dyna a wnelo hyn ag ef. Mae angen inni sicrhau pwerau statudol.
That was the point I was trying to make. [Interruption.] I am standing up—that is a first, is it not?
Dyna’r pwynt yr oeddwn yn ceisio ei wneud. [Torri ar draws.] Yr wyf yn sefyll—tybiaf na ddigwyddodd hynny o’r blaen?
Dafydd Elis-Thomas The Presiding Officer spoken in English p. 86
Dafydd Elis-Thomas Y Llywydd siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 86
Order. Members are entitled to sit or stand, as they wish. It does not require comments from other Members.
Trefn. Mae gan yr Aelodau yr hawl i eistedd neu sefyll, fel y dymunant. Nid oes angen sylwadau gan Aelodau eraill.
The point that we were trying to make was that facts need to be collected first.
Y pwynt yr oeddem yn ceisio ei wneud oedd bod angen casglu’r ffeithiau yn gyntaf.
The point is that if we had had these facts in Nantygwyddon, the investigation would not have occurred. That is why we want to ensure that monitoring takes place. We need to have facts before we can make decisions. That is what this proposal is about.
Y gwir yw na fyddai’r ymchwiliad wedi digwydd, pe bai’r ffeithiau hyn gennym yn Nantygwyddon. Dyna pam yr ydym am sicrhau monitro. Mae angen ffeithiau arnom cyn y gallwn wneud penderfyniadau. Dyna sydd wrth wraidd y cynnig hwn.
To conclude, we need better information on which to base public health studies. There is an acknowledged need to monitor gases from landfill sites. The principle has been agreed time and again. There can be no rational argument against it. We have the power now to implement a statutory obligation to ensure that monitoring takes place. We do not need to wait to see what may or may not transpire from future legislation. Health risks associated with landfill gas emissions are serious. The Assembly has the opportunity this afternoon to tackle the issue. Let us not shy away from accepting our responsibilities.
I gloi, mae angen gwell gwybodaeth arnom i seilio astudiaethau iechyd y cyhoedd arni. Mae angen cydnabyddedig am fonitro nwyon o safleoedd tirlenwi. Cytunwyd ar yr egwyddor dro ar ôl tro. Ni ellir dadlau yn rhesymegol yn ei herbyn. Mae’r pŵer gennym yn awr i weithredu ymrwymiad statudol i fonitro. Nid oes angen inni aros i weld beth a ddaw neu na ddaw o ddeddfwriaeth y dyfodol. Mae’r peryglon i iechyd sy’n gysylltiedig â gollyngiadau nwy tirlenwi yn ddifrifol. Mae gan y Cynulliad gyfle y prynhawn yma i fynd i’r afael â’r broblem. Ni ddylem wingo rhag derbyn ein cyfrifoldebau.
Gwelliant 1 Geraint Davies t. 86
Amendment 1 Geraint Davies p. 86
GwrthodwydRejected O blaidFor 20 YmatalAbstain 0 Yn erbynAgainst 30
Gwrthodwyd y gwelliant.
Amendment rejected.
Sut y pleidleisiodd yr AelodauHow Members voted
O blaidFor (20)
- Nick Bourne
- Alun Cairns
- David Davies
- Geraint Davies
- Glyn Davies
- Janet Davies
- William Graham
- Brian Hancock
- Elin Jones
- Gareth Jones
- Helen Mary Jones
- David Lloyd
- David Melding
- Jonathan Morgan
- Peter Rogers
- Janet Ryder
- Owen John Thomas
- Rhodri Glyn Thomas
- Dafydd Wigley
- Phil Williams
Yn erbynAgainst (30)
- Lorraine Barrett
- Mick Bates
- Peter Black
- Eleanor Burnham
- Rosemary Butler
- Christine Chapman
- Jane Davidson
- Andrew Davies
- Richard Edwards
- Sue Essex
- Delyth Evans
- Michael German
- Brian Gibbons
- Janice Gregory
- John Griffiths
- Alison Halford
- Edwina Hart
- Jane Hutt
- Ann Jones
- Carwyn Jones
- Peter Law
- Huw Lewis
- Val Lloyd
- Tom Middlehurst
- Rhodri Morgan
- Lynne Neagle
- Jenny Randerson
- Karen Sinclair
- Gwenda Thomas
- Kirsty Williams
Tynnwyd gwelliant 2 yn ôl.
Amendment 2 withdrawn.
Gwelliant 3 Geraint Davies t. 87
Amendment 3 Geraint Davies p. 87
GwrthodwydRejected O blaidFor 20 YmatalAbstain 0 Yn erbynAgainst 30
Gwrthodwyd y gwelliant
Amendment rejected.
Sut y pleidleisiodd yr AelodauHow Members voted
O blaidFor (20)
- Nick Bourne
- Alun Cairns
- David Davies
- Geraint Davies
- Glyn Davies
- Janet Davies
- William Graham
- Brian Hancock
- Elin Jones
- Gareth Jones
- Helen Mary Jones
- David Lloyd
- David Melding
- Jonathan Morgan
- Peter Rogers
- Janet Ryder
- Owen John Thomas
- Rhodri Glyn Thomas
- Dafydd Wigley
- Phil Williams
Yn erbynAgainst (30)
- Lorraine Barrett
- Mick Bates
- Peter Black
- Eleanor Burnham
- Rosemary Butler
- Christine Chapman
- Jane Davidson
- Andrew Davies
- Richard Edwards
- Sue Essex
- Delyth Evans
- Michael German
- Brian Gibbons
- Janice Gregory
- John Griffiths
- Alison Halford
- Edwina Hart
- Jane Hutt
- Ann Jones
- Carwyn Jones
- Peter Law
- Huw Lewis
- Val Lloyd
- Tom Middlehurst
- Rhodri Morgan
- Lynne Neagle
- Jenny Randerson
- Karen Sinclair
- Gwenda Thomas
- Kirsty Williams
Gwelliant 4 David Davies t. 88
Amendment 4 David Davies p. 88
GwrthodwydRejected O blaidFor 20 YmatalAbstain 0 Yn erbynAgainst 30
Gwrthodwyd y gwelliant.
Amendment rejected.
Sut y pleidleisiodd yr AelodauHow Members voted
O blaidFor (20)
- Nick Bourne
- Alun Cairns
- David Davies
- Geraint Davies
- Glyn Davies
- Janet Davies
- William Graham
- Brian Hancock
- Elin Jones
- Gareth Jones
- Helen Mary Jones
- David Lloyd
- David Melding
- Jonathan Morgan
- Peter Rogers
- Janet Ryder
- Owen John Thomas
- Rhodri Glyn Thomas
- Dafydd Wigley
- Phil Williams
Yn erbynAgainst (30)
- Lorraine Barrett
- Mick Bates
- Peter Black
- Eleanor Burnham
- Rosemary Butler
- Christine Chapman
- Jane Davidson
- Andrew Davies
- Richard Edwards
- Sue Essex
- Delyth Evans
- Michael German
- Brian Gibbons
- Janice Gregory
- John Griffiths
- Alison Halford
- Edwina Hart
- Jane Hutt
- Ann Jones
- Carwyn Jones
- Peter Law
- Huw Lewis
- Val Lloyd
- Tom Middlehurst
- Rhodri Morgan
- Lynne Neagle
- Jenny Randerson
- Karen Sinclair
- Gwenda Thomas
- Kirsty Williams
Cynnig NDM1167 Geraint Davies t. 88
Motion NDM1167 Geraint Davies p. 88
GwrthodwydRejected O blaidFor 20 YmatalAbstain 0 Yn erbynAgainst 30
Gwrthodwyd y cynnig.
Motion rejected.
Sut y pleidleisiodd yr AelodauHow Members voted
O blaidFor (20)
- Nick Bourne
- Alun Cairns
- David Davies
- Geraint Davies
- Glyn Davies
- Janet Davies
- William Graham
- Brian Hancock
- Elin Jones
- Gareth Jones
- Helen Mary Jones
- David Lloyd
- David Melding
- Jonathan Morgan
- Peter Rogers
- Janet Ryder
- Owen John Thomas
- Rhodri Glyn Thomas
- Dafydd Wigley
- Phil Williams
Yn erbynAgainst (30)
- Lorraine Barrett
- Mick Bates
- Peter Black
- Eleanor Burnham
- Rosemary Butler
- Christine Chapman
- Jane Davidson
- Andrew Davies
- Richard Edwards
- Sue Essex
- Delyth Evans
- Michael German
- Brian Gibbons
- Janice Gregory
- John Griffiths
- Alison Halford
- Edwina Hart
- Jane Hutt
- Ann Jones
- Carwyn Jones
- Peter Law
- Huw Lewis
- Val Lloyd
- Tom Middlehurst
- Rhodri Morgan
- Lynne Neagle
- Jenny Randerson
- Karen Sinclair
- Gwenda Thomas
- Kirsty Williams
Dadl Fer
Short Debate
Ynni Niwclear—Ein Hunig Ddewis yn y Dyfodol?
Nuclear Energy—Our Only Future Option?
I will allow David Davies and John Griffiths to speak in this debate.
Caniatâf i David Davies a John Griffiths siarad yn y ddadl hon.
Sitting in this Chamber for seven hours a week for the past three and a half years can induce an unrealistic view of other people’s concerns. It can lead us to think that everybody accepts the same parameters in policy making as we do. The closer people get to the action, the more difficult it becomes for them to look beyond that and consider anything in a fresh way. Worse still is the failure to understand that many people will be pulled along by the views of forceful organisations that are against government, sometimes to the detriment of rational decision-making.
Mae eistedd yn y Siambr hon am saith awr yr wythnos am y tair blynedd a hanner ddiwethaf yn peri ichi ffurfio barn afrealistig am bryderon pobl eraill. Gall ein harwain i gredu bod pawb yn derbyn yr un ffiniau o ran llunio polisïau ag y gwnawn ni. Yr agosaf y mae pobl at y sefyllfa, yr anoddaf ydyw iddynt edrych y tu hwnt i hynny ac ystyried unrhyw beth o’r newydd. Gwaeth na hynny yw’r methiant i ddeall y bydd llawer o bobl yn mynd gyda’r llif o farnau’r sefydliadau grymus sy’n gwrthwynebu’r Llywodraeth, a hynny weithiau ar draul gwneud penderfyniadau rhesymegol.
Hear, hear.
Clywch, clywch.
I hope that I will not be seen as backing previous speakers on that point.
Gobeithio na chaf fy ystyried fel un sy’n cefnogi siaradwyr blaenorol ar y pwynt hwnnw.
One of the most important spheres of current political action concerns the environment and the dangers posed to the continued existence of life on earth by global warming. The problem of houses being flooded on the banks of the Severn and Taff rivers is peanuts compared to what will be happening in 20 years’ time if the Government does not take the lead and plan for change. Developing a balanced policy must be the priority.
Un o’r meysydd pwysicaf o weithredu gwleidyddol cyfredol yw’r un sy’n ymwneud â’r amgylchedd a’r peryglon i barhad bywyd ar y ddaear yn sgîl cynhesu byd eang. Pitw iawn yw’r broblem o dai yn dioddef llifogydd ar lannau afon Hafren ac afon Taf o gymharu â’r hyn fydd yn digwydd ymhen 20 mlynedd os na fydd y Llywodraeth yn cymryd yr arweiniad ac yn cynllunio ar gyfer newid. Rhaid rhoi blaenoriaeth i ddatblygu polisi cytbwys.
Over the last few days, I have been reading books published during the past 40 years that have influenced thinking on environmental issues. Alarm bells started ringing in the 1960s. Some of the issues raised then have been partly dealt with, such as ensuring better heat conservation in buildings. However, the fact that cars are more efficient has been offset by the huge increase in their numbers. Other changes have also taken place. Aneurin Bevan once described the UK as a lump of coal. Now we only have access to that resource through open cast mining. Many things have changed, but the big issues have not been resolved.
Dros yr ychydig ddyddiau diwethaf, yr wyf wedi bod yn darllen llyfrau a gyhoeddwyd yn ystod y 40 mlynedd diwethaf sydd wedi dylanwadau ar feddylfryd pobl o ran materion amgylcheddol. Yr oedd yr arwyddion yn dechrau ymddangos yn y 1960au. Ymdriniwyd yn rhannol â rhai o’r materion a godwyd bryd hynny, fel sicrhau gwell dulliau o gadw gwres mewn adeiladau. Fodd bynnag, mae’r ffaith bod cynnydd enfawr yn nifer y ceir yn gwrthweithio’r ffaith eu bod yn fwy effeithlon. Mae newidiadau eraill wedi digwydd hefyd. Disgrifiodd Aneurin Bevan y DU unwaith fel talp o lo. Bellach dim ond drwy fwyngloddio glo brig y gallwn gael gafael ar yr adnodd hwnnw. Mae llawer o bethau wedi newid, ond nid yw’r materion o bwys wedi cael eu datrys.
Fundamental concerns about the environment are just as important in the twenty-first century as they were to forward thinkers in the second half of the twentieth century. Three major world summits have been held—in Rio, Kyoto and Johannesburg—that have raised the profile of the dangers that we face. Targets have been set and agreed upon to reduce carbon dioxide production. Developed countries are currently only scraping by because developing countries have such low rates of energy use and carbon dioxide output. People in developed countries, such as those within the European Union and, to a greater extent, the United States of America, have lifestyles that depend on exploiting the fact that others use less energy. I am not suggesting that it is easy for developed countries to cut back on energy use: if people are forced to lower their standard of living massive protests will endanger civilisation. That is an unpalatable and indefensible fact. Therefore, developed countries must find ways of maintaining an acceptable standard of life while producing energy and maintaining communication with a much-reduced reliance on finite resources.
Mae pryderon sylfaenol ynglŷn â’r amgylchedd yr un mor bwysig yn yr unfed ganrif ar hugain ag yr oeddent i bobl eangfrydig yn ail hanner yr ugeinfed ganrif. Cynhaliwyd tair uwchgynhadledd y byd—yn Rio, Kyoto a Johannesburg—sydd wedi codi proffil y peryglon a wynebwn. Gosodwyd targedau i leihau faint o garbon deuocsid a gynhyrchir a chytunwyd arnynt. Dim ond crafu i gyrraedd y targedau y mae gwledydd datblygedig ar hyn o bryd gan fod y defnydd o ynni a’r carbon deuocsid a gynhyrchir mewn gwledydd sy’n datblygu mor isel. Mae ffyrdd o fyw pobl mewn gwledydd datblygedig, fel y rheini o fewn yr Undeb Ewropeaidd ac, i raddau helaethach, Unol Daleithiau America, yn dibynnu ar ecsbloetio’r ffaith bod gwledydd eraill yn defnyddio llai o ynni. Nid wyf yn awgrymu ei bod yn hawdd i wledydd datblygedig dorri ar y defnydd o ynni: os caiff pobl eu gorfodi i ostwng eu safonau byw bydd protestiadau enfawr yn peryglu gwareiddiad. Nid yw hon yn ffaith ddymunol ac ni ellir ei hamddiffyn. Felly, mae’n rhaid i wledydd datblygedig ddod o hyd i ffyrdd o gynnal safon byw derbyniol tra’n cynhyrchu ynni ac yn parhau i gyfathrebu drwy ddibynnu llawer llai ar adnoddau meidraidd.
In Wales, we cannot make all the decisions that we need to make, but we have been given devolved power for sustainable development in the Government of Wales Act 1998. We use relatively high levels of energy and natural resources. Therefore, we need to implement all the powers available to us to reduce the use of natural resources and to re-use them.
Yng Nghymru, ni allwn wneud yr holl benderfyniadau y mae angen inni eu gwneud, ond rhoddwyd pŵer datganoledig inni ar gyfer datblygiad cynaliadwy drwy Ddeddf Llywodraeth Cymru 1998. Defnyddiwn lefelau cymharol uchel o ynni ac adnoddau naturiol. Felly, mae angen inni weithredu’r holl bwerau sydd ar gael inni er mwyn lleihau’r defnydd o adnoddau naturiol a’u hailddefnyddio.
This debate is about electricity generation rather than wider environmental issues, which would include the argument about transport. Planning ahead with regard to building power stations is necessary, particularly given their long lifespan. Fossil fuels are a finite resource. They cause global warming and their extraction is often dangerous, unpleasant and destructive to the environment. Access to coal involves opening new open cast coal sites, or extending existing ones. That is not ideal for people living in areas where sites are based. Continuing to generate electricity from coal is becoming more unlikely. As power stations come to the end of their lives, building new stations, which contribute to global warming and which are largely dependent on imports, cannot be the way forward.
Mae’r ddadl hon yn ymwneud â chynhyrchu ynni yn hytrach na materion amgylcheddol ehangach, a fyddai’n cynnwys y ddadl ynghylch trafnidiaeth. Mae angen cynllunio ymlaen llaw ar gyfer adeiladu gorsafoedd ynni, yn arbennig o gofio pa mor hir y maent yn parhau. Mae tanwydd ffosiledig yn adnoddau meidraidd. Maent yn achosi cynhesu byd-eang ac mae’r broses o’u hechdynnu yn aml yn beryglus, yn annymunol ac yn dinistrio’r amgylchedd. Mae cael gafael ar lo yn golygu agor glofeydd glo brig newydd, neu ehangu’r rhai presennol. Nid yw hynny’n ddelfrydol i’r bobl sy’n byw yn yr ardaloedd lle y lleolir y safleoedd. Mae parhau i gynhyrchu trydan o lo yn dod yn fwyfwy annhebygol. Wrth i orsafoedd ynni ddod i ddiwedd eu hoes, nid adeiladu rhai newydd, sy’n cyfrannu at yr effaith tŷ gwydr ac sy’n ddibynnol iawn ar fewnforion, yw’r ffordd ymlaen.
Natural gas generating stations are being used more frequently and they are cleaner than coal-fired power stations. However, given that cheap natural gas will not be available for much longer, the use of such stations should perhaps be reserved to service peak requirements.
Defnyddir gorsafoedd sy’n cynhyrchu nwy naturiol yn amlach ac maent yn lanach na gorsafoedd ynni sy’n cael eu rhedeg ar lo. Fodd bynnag, o gofio na fydd nwy naturiol rhad ar gael am lawer hwy, efallai y dylid cadw’r defnydd o orsafoedd o’r fath ar gyfer adegau pan fydd y galw ar ei uchaf.
Nuclear power is another major electricity generator and is, in some ways, a tempting option as it does not contribute to global warming. It can provide employment in rural areas and enough energy for our needs. In Wales, there is a low accident rate associated with nuclear power compared with the rate of people killed and injured in colliery accidents. Nuclear power has been seen—and is still seen by many influential people—as essential for the future of developed and developing countries. In its early days, nuclear power generation was seen as the answer to everyone’s dreams. Why, therefore, is there a question mark at the end of the title of this debate? First, nuclear energy must be set in the right context. Many reactors are coming to the end of their lives, as are coal power stations. There have been terrifying accidents at nuclear power stations in other countries, which have had long-term effects. The accident at Seven Mile Island in the USA could have been much worse and it highlighted the need for rigorous control. Chernobyl was a disaster waiting to happen because of poorly designed reactors and a lack of maintenance and control. These accidents have left serious doubts about the widespread, long-term safe operation of nuclear reactors.
Cynhyrchydd trydan pwysig arall yw ynni niwclear ac, ar rai agweddau, mae’n opsiwn atyniadol gan nad yw’n cyfrannu at gynhesu byd-eang. Gall ddarparu cyflogaeth mewn ardaloedd gwledig a digon o ynni ar gyfer ein hanghenion. Yng Nghymru, isel yw’r gyfradd ddamweiniau sy’n gysylltiedig ag ynni niwclear o gymharu â chyfradd y bobl a gaiff eu lladd a’u hanafu mewn damweiniau mewn glofeydd. Ystyriwyd ynni niwclear fel rhywbeth sy’n hanfodol ar gyfer dyfodol gwledydd datblygedig a gwledydd sy’n datblygu—ac mae llawer o bobl yn parhau i’w ystyried felly. Yn ei ddyddiau cynnar, ystyriwyd mai ynni niwclear oedd yr ateb i freuddwydion pawb. Pam, felly, bod gofynnod ar ddiwedd teitl y ddadl hon? Yn gyntaf, rhaid rhoi ynni niwclear yn y cyd-destun cywir. Mae llawer o adweithyddion yn dod i ddiwedd eu hoes, fel y gwna gorsafoedd ynni glo. Bu damweiniau brawychus mewn gorsafoedd ynni niwclear mewn gwledydd eraill, sydd wedi cael effeithiau hirdymor. Gallai’r ddamwain yn Seven Mile Island yn UDA fod wedi bod yn llawer gwaeth ac amlygodd yr angen am reolaeth lem. Yr oedd Chernobyl yn drychineb y rhagwelwyd y byddai’n digwydd oherwydd adweithyddion o gynllun gwael a diffyg cynnal a chadw a rheolaeth. Mae’r damweiniau hyn wedi gadael amheuon difrifol ynghylch gweithrediad diogel hirdymor adweithyddion niwclear ar raddfa eang.
Protecting nuclear plants from terrorist attacks is also an important issue. How can anyone be sure that an aeroplane will not be flown deliberately into a nuclear power station? Their vulnerability can lead to a severe reduction in the liberty and freedom of citizens as authoritarian measures of protection are introduced.
Mae diogelu gweithfeydd niwclear rhag ymosodiadau terfysgol hefyd yn fater pwysig. Sut y gall unrhyw un fod yn siŵr na chaiff awyren ei hedfan yn fwriadol i mewn i orsaf ynni niwclear? Gall eu sefyllfa fregus arwain at leihad sylweddol mewn hawliau a rhyddid dinasyddion yn sgîl cyflwyno mesurau diogelwch awdurdodaidd.
Generating nuclear power is currently not flexible for peak demand. This summer, spent radioactive fuel was shuttled back and forth across the world to Sellafield. However, the greatest problem with regard to nuclear power is dealing with highly radioactive waste products, some of which remain dangerous for 20,000 years. How can anyone guarantee the safe storage of such waste for that length of time? Despite the title of this debate, I do not believe that anyone can reasonably consider nuclear power to be a safe option for the future.
Ar hyn o bryd nid yw cynhyrchu ynni niwclear yn hyblyg ar gyfer adegau pan fo’r galw ar ei uchaf. Yr haf hwn, cafodd tanwydd ymbelydrol ei anfon yn ôl ac ymlaen ar draws y byd i Sellafield. Fodd bynnag, y broblem fwyaf o ran ynni niwclear yw ymdrin â chynnyrch gwastraff sydd yn ymbelydrol iawn, ac mae peth ohono yn parhau i fod yn beryglus am 20,000 o flynyddoedd. Sut y gall unrhyw un warantu storio gwastraff o’r fath yn ddiogel am gymaint â hynny o amser? Er gwaethaf teitl y ddadl hon, ni chredaf y gall unrhyw un yn rhesymol ystyried ynni niwclear fel dewis diogel ar gyfer y dyfodol.
An alternative to nuclear power is renewable electricity generation, from sun, wind, wave, tidal, hydro, waste gases and biomass sources. The mix of sources can vary between countries and areas. These sources are renewable and they do not use up finite resources. They are clean and, apart from biomass, they do not produce carbon dioxide as a waste product—however, that can be balanced against new production. Unlike nuclear power, they leave no long-term legacy of waste and they do not need particular protection from the threat of terrorist action, which has associated implications for civil liberties. They can be used in small, decentralised plants and the technology needed for their use is more adaptable for developing countries. Nevertheless, they do have their detractors as they have some disadvantages. There is doubt, for example, about whether they can provide enough power for future needs. For example, we would need 4,000 onshore and 30,000 offshore turbines in the UK to provide for all our energy needs from wind energy. A mix of sources is preferable. In terms of nuclear power, the equivalent would be to build 50 new reactors in the UK. However, neither wind power nor nuclear power adapt well to peak use.
Dewis amgen yn lle ynni niwclear yw cynhyrchu trydan adnewyddadwy, drwy gyfrwng yr haul, y gwynt, tonnau, y llanw, dŵr, nwyon gwastraff a ffynonellau biomas. Gall y gymysgedd o ffynonellau amrywio rhwng gwledydd ac ardaloedd. Mae’r ffynonellau hyn yn adnewyddadwy ac nid ydynt yn defnyddio adnoddau meidraidd. Maent yn lân ac, ar wahân i fiomas, nid ydynt yn cynhyrchu carbon deuocsid fel cynnyrch gwastraff—fodd bynnag, gellir cydbwyso hynny yn erbyn y cynnyrch newydd. Yn wahanol i ynni niwclear, nid ydynt yn gadael etifeddiaeth hirdymor o wastraff ac nid oes angen eu diogelu’n benodol rhag y bygythiad o weithredoedd terfysgol, sydd â goblygiadau i hawliau sifil. Gellir eu defnyddio mewn gweithfeydd bychan, datganoledig a gellir addasu’r dechnoleg sydd ei hangen ar gyfer eu defnyddio yn well ar gyfer gwledydd sy’n datblygu. Serch hynny, mae gwrthwynebwyr iddynt gan fod iddynt rai anfanteision. Mae amheuaeth, er enghraifft, ynghylch a allant ddarparu digon o ynni ar gyfer anghenion y dyfodol. Er enghraifft, byddai angen 4,000 o dyrbinau ar y tir a 30,000 o dyrbinau alltraeth arnom yn y DU i ddarparu ar gyfer ein holl anghenion ynni o ynni’r gwynt. Cymysgedd o ffynonellau sydd orau. O ran ynni niwclear, yr hyn fyddai’n gyfystyr â hynny fyddai adeiladu 50 o adweithyddion newydd yn y DU. Fodd bynnag, nid yw ynni’r gwynt nac ynni niwclear yn addasu’n dda i adegau pan fo’r galw ar ei uchaf.
People will always pick holes in planning applications for power stations: buildings need to connect to the national grid; hydro-electricity harnesses and alters natural watercourses, and in order to use tidal power, large barrages need to be built, which means large-scale quarrying. Tidal lagoons seem to be a good option if they are economically sound. Wave power requires structures to be built at sea, while using photovoltaic cells to extract solar energy is extremely expensive. Solar panels also have limited use in wet, temperate countries such as Wales. The quantities of waste gases produced will be reduced when we reduce our waste production, which is another important part of environmental management.
Bydd pobl bob amser yn gweld beiau mewn ceisiadau cynllunio ar gyfer gorsafoedd ynni: mae angen cysylltu’r adeiladau â’r rhwydwaith cenedlaethol; mae trydan dŵr yn harneisio ac yn newid cyrsiau dŵr naturiol, ac er mwyn defnyddio ynni’r llanw, mae angen adeiladu morgloddiau mawr, sy’n golygu chwarelu ar raddfa fawr. Ymddengys fod lagwnau llanw yn opsiwn da os ydynt yn economaidd gadarn. Mae angen adeiladu sdrwythurau yn y môr ar gyfer ynni’r tonnau, tra bod defnyddio celloedd ffotofoltaidd i gael ynni haul yn gostus iawn. Yn ogystal, cyfyngedig yw’r defnydd y gellir ei wneud o baneli haul mewn gwledydd gwlyb, tymherus fel Cymru. Caiff swm y nwy gwastraff a gynhyrchir ei leihau pan fyddwn yn lleihau’r gwastraff a gynhyrchwn, sydd yn rhan bwysig arall o reoli’r amgylchedd.
There are often huge protests whenever wind power is suggested as an alternative option. There were demands that wind turbines should be offshore rather than onshore, which was followed by vigorous protests against offshore windfarms. Sometimes, there are valid reasons not to build windfarms in a particular place, but many of the allegations—of noise, bird injuries and deaths, and the latest allegation that a windfarm five miles out at sea will ruin the surf and stop people from surfing—are not valid. Windfarms will always have a visual impact and there should be a limit on the number that can be seen from any one place. We must carefully consider the potential damage and problems of each type of energy generation. Windfarms leave no residual waste or contamination.
Yn aml gwelir protestiadau enfawr pan awgrymir ynni’r gwynt fel dewis amgen. Yr oedd galw am leoli tyrbinau gwynt alltraeth yn hytrach nac ar y tir, a ddilynwyd gan brotestiadau grymus yn erbyn ffermydd gwynt ar y tir. Weithiau, mae rhesymau dilys dros beidio ag adeiladu ffermydd gwynt mewn man arbennig, ond mae llawer o’r honiadau—sŵn, adar yn cael eu hanafu ac yn marw, a’r honiad diweddaraf y byddai fferm wynt bum milltir allan i’r môr yn difetha’r ewyn ac yn atal pobl rhag syrffio—nad ydynt yn ddilys. Bydd ffermydd gwynt bob amser yn cael effaith weledol a dylid cyfyngu ar y nifer y gellir eu gweld o unrhyw un lle. Rhaid inni ystyried yn ofalus y niwed posibl a phroblemau pob dull o gynhyrchu ynni. Nid yw ffermydd gwynt yn gadael unrhyw wastraff gweddilliol na llygredd.
Renewable energy that delivers to an area near the production point most of the time is more efficient. It empowers local communities and acts against central authoritarian tendencies. In the 1980s, thousands of millions of pounds were invested into researching the uses and extraction of oil and nuclear energy, but virtually nothing was spent on renewable energy options. Inevitably, that means that renewable energy options have a lot of ground to make up before becoming as economically efficient as they are environmentally sound.
Mae ynni adnewyddadwy sy’n darparu ar gyfer ardal sy’n agos at y man cynhyrchu yn fwy effeithlon y rhan fwyaf o’r amser. Mae’n ymrymuso cymunedau lleol ac yn gweithredu yn erbyn tueddiadau awdurdodol canolog. Yn yr 1980au, buddsoddwyd miloedd o filiynau o bunnoedd er mwyn ymchwilio i’r defnydd o olew a’r dull o’i echdynnu ac ynni niwclear, ond gwariwyd y nesaf peth i ddim ar opsiynau ynni adnewyddadwy. Yn anochel, golyga hynny fod gan opsiynau ynni adnewyddadwy lawer o ffordd i fynd cyn dod mor effeithlon yn economaidd ag y maent o ran cadernid amgylcheddol.
A programme of using only one type of renewable energy is not sensible. Any country needs a mix-and-match selection and anyone who opposes renewable energy needs to carefully consider what they are doing. Some developments are unacceptable, but to oppose them in principle, or because they will alter a favourite vista, is extremely short-sighted. No government should contemplate the alternative of generating electricity too expensive for many people to use, or in too short a supply for industry to function. A mix of renewable sources to generate electricity with a back-up of natural gas and pump storage schemes for peak demand seems to be the best option.
Nid yw rhaglen o ddefnyddio un math o ynni adnewyddadwy yn unig yn synhwyrol. Mae angen cymysgedd ar unrhyw wlad ac mae angen i unrhyw un sy’n gwrthwynebu ynni adnewyddadwy ystyried yr hyn a wnânt yn ofalus. Mae rhai datblygiadau yn annerbyniol, ond mae eu gwrthwynebu mewn egwyddor, neu oherwydd y byddant yn newid hoff olygfa, yn hynod o fyrweledol. Ni ddylai unrhyw lywodraeth ystyried y dewis amgen o gynhyrchu trydan sydd yn rhy ddrud i lawer o bobl ei ddefnyddio, neu nad oes digon o gyflenwad i ddiwydiant weithredu. Ymddengys mai’r dewis gorau yw cymysgedd o ffynonellau adnewyddadwy i greu trydan gyda nwy naturiol wrth gefn a chynlluniau storio pwmp ar gyfer adegau pan fo’r galw ar ei uchaf.
I congratulate Janet Davies on her thoughtful contribution to this afternoon’s short debate. I wanted to pick up on her point about people’s reactions to any detrimental effect on their standard of living—even if it meant an improvement in standards in the third world. We all genuinely want to see standards of living improve in third world countries, but I am reminded of the understandable outrage whenever we hear of companies moving their operations to eastern European or north African countries, even though such developments are of great benefit to the people of those countries.
Llongyfarchaf Janet Davies ar ei chyfraniad ystyrlon i’r ddadl fer y prynhawn yma. Yr oeddwn am fynd ar drywydd ei phwynt ynghylch ymateb pobl i unrhyw effaith andwyol ar eu safon byw—hyd yn oed os yw’n golygu gwella safonau yn y trydydd byd. Yr ydym oll o ddifrif am weld safonau byw yn gwella yng ngwledydd y trydydd byd, ond caf fy atgoffa o’r dicter dealladwy pryd bynnag y clywn am gwmnïau yn symud eu gweithrediadau i wledydd yn nwyrain Ewrop neu ogledd Affrica, er bod datblygiadau o’r fath o fudd mawr i bobl y gwledydd hynny.
Before discussing nuclear power stations, Janet made a few points in their favour: they create infinitely sustainable energy, and do not create any emissions or contribute to the greenhouse effect. However, I appreciate her safety concerns, in particular, the idea of a plane crashing into a nuclear power station or another accident of that kind. Authorities say that stations could withstand an aeroplane collision, but I hope that we will never have to find out whether or not that is true.
Cyn trafod gorsafoedd ynni niwclear, gwnaeth Janet ychydig o bwyntiau o’u plaid: maent yn creu ynni adnewyddadwy anfeidraidd, ac nid ydynt yn creu unrhyw ollyngiadau nac yn cyfrannu at yr effaith tŷ gwydr. Fodd bynnag, gwerthfawrogaf ei phryderon ynghylch diogelwch, yn arbennig, y syniad o awyren yn gwrthdaro â gorsaf ynni niwclear neu ddamwain arall o’r fath. Dywed yr awdurdodau y gallai gorsafoedd wrthsefyll gwrthdrawiad ag awyren, ond gobeithio na fydd yn rhaid imi byth ddarganfod a yw hynny’n wir ai peidio.
The problem with wave and wind power is that they also carry an environmental cost—ask anyone who lives next door to a windfarm. Similarly, the proposal to block off the River Severn to create wave power would have a terrible environmental impact on the immediate area of the Severn levels.
Y broblem gydag ynni tonnau ac ynni’r gwynt yw bod cost amgylcheddol yn gysylltiedig â hwy hefyd—gofynnwch i unrhyw un sy’n byw drws nesaf i fferm wynt. Yn yr un modd, byddai’r cynnig i flocio Afon Hafren er mwyn creu ynni tonnau yn cael effaith amgylcheddol ofnadwy ar ardal gwastadeddau Hafren.
The title of today’s short debate ended with a question mark, and that remains in my mind. Knowing that I would speak on this topic today, I spoke to staff at BNFL, who agreed to allow any Members to visit a nuclear power station should we wish to in future. I will let you know.
Mae gofynnod ar ddiwedd teitl y ddadl fer heddiw, ac erys hwnnw yn fy nghof. Gan wybod y byddem yn siarad ar y pwnc hwn heddiw, siaradais â staff yn BNFL, a gytunodd i ganiatáu i unrhyw Aelodau ymweld â gorsaf ynni niwclear be baem yn dymuno gwneud hynny yn y dyfodol. Rhoddaf wybod ichi.
Dafydd Elis-Thomas The Presiding Officer spoken in English p. 95
Dafydd Elis-Thomas Y Llywydd siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 95
Order. You have had your minute, David.
Trefn. Yr ydych wedi cael eich munud, David.
I also congratulate Janet on tabling this debate. These are important and difficult issues that need a good airing, and it is a good subject for a short debate. In the short time available to me, I will reinforce one of Janet’s points, namely the difficult question of how to deal with nuclear waste. To date, nobody has suggested a satisfactory solution and many people have rightly highlighted the fact that we are storing up terrible problems for countless future generations if we continue to use nuclear power. Unless and until somebody finds a satisfactory solution to how we deal with nuclear waste, in weighing up the balance of nuclear power and other forms of energy, we must be reluctant to continue with nuclear power.
Yr wyf innau hefyd am longyfarch Janet am gyflwyno’r ddadl hon. Mae’r rhain yn faterion pwysig ac anodd y mae angen eu gwyntyllu’n dda, ac mae’n bwnc da ar gyfer dadl fer. Yn yr amser byr sydd ar gael imi, cadarnhaf un o bwyntiau Janet, sef y cwestiwn anodd o sut i ymdrin â gwastraff niwclear. Hyd yma, nid oes unrhyw un wedi awgrymu ateb boddhaol ac mae llawer o bobl wedi amlygu’r ffaith, a hynny’n briodol, ein bod yn cronni problemau ofnadwy ar gyfer sawl un o genedlaethau’r dyfodol os byddwn yn parhau i ddefnyddio ynni niwclear. Oni bai a hyd nes y bydd rhywun yn dod o hyd i ateb boddhaol i’r ffordd o ddelio â gwastraff niwclear, gan bwyso a mesur ynni niwclear a ffurfiau eraill o ynni, rhaid inni fod yn amharod i barhau ag ynni niwclear.
Andrew Davies The Minister for Economic Development spoken in English p. 96
Andrew Davies Y Gweinidog dros Ddatblygu Economaidd siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 96
This has been a thoughtful debate, and I have listened carefully to the points raised. I welcome the opportunity to respond.
Bu hon yn ddadl ystyrlon, a gwrandewais yn ofalus ar y pwyntiau a godwyd. Croesawaf y cyfle i ymateb.
Wales has an important contribution to make to the debate on energy generation and the options available to us, not least because of our extensive coastline of over 1,000 miles—we can contribute to the future generation of energy, and I welcome today’s debate. Given the wide range of opportunities and options available to Wales and the rest of the UK, it is immediately clear that nuclear power is not our only option.
Mae gan Cymru gyfraniad pwysig i’w wneud i’r ddadl ar gynhyrchu ynni a’r opsiynau sydd ar gael inni, yn bennaf oherwydd ein harfordir eang o fwy na 1,000 o filltiroedd —gallwn gyfrannu at gynhyrchu ynni yn y dyfodol, a chroesawaf y ddadl heddiw. O gofio’r ystod eang o gyfleoedd ac opsiynau sydd ar gael i Gymru a gweddill y DU, mae’n amlwg ar unwaith nad ynni niwclear yw ein hunig ddewis.
When considering our options for future energy generation, we must consider the issue of bulk generation from a low-carbon source. On the one hand, nuclear power offers an almost zero carbon source of electricity on a huge scale, combined with a relative security of supply. However, we must also address the issue—as several Members mentioned—of the possible high costs and long-term waste problems connected with nuclear generation, as well as potential security issues.
Wrth ystyried ein hopsiynau ar gyfer cynhyrchu ynni yn y dyfodol, mae’n rhaid inni ystyried y mater o swmp gynhyrchu o ffynhonnell sy’n isel mewn carbon. Ar un llaw, mae ynni niwclear yn cynnig ffynhonnell o drydan nad yw’n cynnwys bron ddim carbon ar raddfa fawr, ynghyd â sicrwydd cymharol o ran y cyflenwad. Fodd bynnag, rhaid inni hefyd ymdrin—fel y soniodd sawl Aelod—â’r mater o gostau uchel o bosibl a phroblemau gwastraff hir dymor sy’n gysylltiedig â chynhyrchu niwclear, yn ogystal â’r materion diogelwch posibl.
Do you agree that we should make much greater use of our renewable energy resource potential in Wales for both present and future generations?
A gytunwch y dylem wneud defnydd llawer mwy o’n potensial o ran adnoddau ynni adnewyddadwy yng Nghymru ar gyfer y cenedlaethau presennol a chenedlaethau’r dyfodol?
Very much so. I will outline that potential.
Yn sicr. Amlinellaf y potensial hwnnw.
Nuclear power currently produces around 25 per cent of the UK’s electricity. In Wales, 22 per cent comes from our only operational nuclear plant at Wylfa, in Anglesey. As Janet Davies noted, we must acknowledge that output from existing nuclear power stations will start to decline as they reach the end of their commercial lives. That will increase greenhouse gas emissions. Experts suggest that atmosphere concentrations of carbon dioxide must be kept below 550 parts per million if we are to avoid disastrous consequences, particularly from rising sea levels and changing ocean currents. If electricity production continues as it is currently, that critical limit will be exceeded by 2050 or earlier. Carbon dioxide concentrations will rapidly rise thereafter in a non-reversible way over the next decades—the so-called energy/carbon challenge. That situation can only be avoided by increased levels of energy efficiency and much cleaner energy production.
Ar hyn o bryd mae ynni niwclear yn cynhyrchu tua 25 y cant o drydan y DU. Yng Nghymru, daw 22 y cant o’n hunig waith niwclear gweithredol yn yr Wylfa, ar Ynys Môn. Fel y nododd Janet Davies, rhaid inni gydnabod y bydd allbwn o orsafoedd ynni niwclear presennol yn dechrau dirywio wrth iddynt ddod i ddiwedd eu hoes fasnachol. Bydd hynny’n cynyddu eu gollyngiadau o nwyon tŷ gwydr. Awgryma arbenigwyr bod yn rhaid i grynodiadau carbon deuocsid yn yr atmosffer gael eu cadw’n is na 550 rhan fesul miliwn os ydym am osgoi canlyniadau trychinebus, yn arbennig o ganlyniad i lefel y môr yn codi a newid yng ngherrynt y cefnfor. Os bydd y broses o gynhyrchu trydan yn parhau fel ag y mae, bydd y lefelau yn mynd y tu hwnt i’r terfyn hollbwysig hwnnw erbyn 2050 neu ynghynt. Bydd y crynodiadau carbon deuocsid yn cynyddu’n gyflym wedi hynny mewn ffordd na ellir ei gwyrdroi dros y degawdau nesaf—yr her ynni/carbon bondigrybwyll. Dim ond drwy lefelau uwch o effeithlonrwydd ynni a chynhyrchu ynni llawer glanach y gellir osgoi’r sefyllfa honno.
Taking up John Griffiths’s point, do you not agree that the most irresponsible feature of the nuclear power option is that, in terms of nuclear waste, we are effectively mortgaging the safety of future generations? That can neither be a sustainable nor a moral policy option.
Gan fynd ar drywydd pwynt John Griffiths, oni chytunwch mai nodwedd fwyaf anghyfrifol yr opsiwn ynni niwclear, yn nhermau gwastraff niwclear, yw ein bod fwy neu lai yn rhoi pris ddiogelwch cenedlaethau’r dyfodol? Ni all hwnnw fod yn opsiwn cynaliadwy nac yn opsiwn polisi moesol.
I agree. Ensuring the long-term disposal and safe-keeping of nuclear waste is fundamental to allay public concerns and fears about the safety of nuclear energy. I will refer to that as I continue.
Cytunaf. Mae sicrhau gwaredu gwastraff niwclear yn y tymor hir a’i gadw’n ddiogel yn sylfaenol i leddfu pryderon ac ofnau’r cyhoedd ynghylch diogelwch ynni niwclear. Cyfeiriaf at hynny wrth imi barhau.
The Royal Commission on Environmental Pollution has proposed that the UK should adopt a strategy that puts the UK on a path to reduce current levels of carbon dioxide emissions by 60 per cent by 2050. It is clear that, if we are to have an impact on global warming, we must find cleaner sources of energy. That is already recognised in our corporate strategy, ‘Plan for Wales 2001’, in which we highlight our desire for Wales to become a global showcase for clean energy.
Mae’r Comisiwn Brenhinol ar Lygredd Amgylcheddol wedi cynnig y dylai’r DU fabwysiadu strategaeth sy’n rhoi’r DU ar y trywydd i leihau lefelau presennol gollyngiadau o garbon deuocsid 50 y cant erbyn 2050. Mae’n amlwg, os ydym am ddylanwadu ar gynhesu byd-eang, bod yn rhaid inni ddod o hyd i ffynonellau ynni glanach. Cydnabyddir hynny eisoes yn ein strategaeth gorfforaethol, ‘Cynllun i Gymru 2001’, lle yr amlygwn ein dyhead i Gymru ddod yn esiampl fyd-eang ar gyfer ynni glân.
Renewable energy, as illustrated by the Economic Development Committee in its study, has considerable potential economic benefits for Wales, and is at the heart of the Assembly Government’s commitment to a sustainable future for our country. Renewable energy will also be vital to the development of future energy policy through the UK Government’s White Paper on energy, currently in preparation. We have been working closely with colleagues in Whitehall on the final paper.
Mae gan ynni adnewyddadwy, fel y dangosir gan y Pwyllgor Datblygu Economaidd yn ei astudiaeth, gryn fanteision economaidd posibl i Gymru, a dyma sydd wrth wraidd ymrwymiad Llywodraeth y Cynulliad i ddyfodol cynaliadwy ein gwlad. Bydd ynni adnewyddadwy hefyd yn hollbwysig i ddatblygu polisi ynni yn y dyfodol drwy Bapur Gwyn Llywodraeth y DU ar ynni, sydd wrthi’n cael ei baratoi. Buom yn cydweithio’n agos gyda’n cyd-aelodau yn Whitehall ar y papur terfynol.
Nuclear power is not the only electricity source that does not produce carbon dioxide. We can significantly reduce our carbon dioxide emissions if we pay more serious attention to energy efficiency in our homes, offices, factories, leisure centres and so on.
Nid ynni niwclear yw’r unig ffynhonnell o drydan nad yw’n cynhyrchu carbon deuocsid. Gallwn leihau ein gollyngiadau carbon deuocsid yn sylweddol os ystyriwn o ddifrif effeithlonrwydd ynni yn ein cartrefi, swyddfeydd, ffatrïoedd, canolfannau hamdden ac ati.
The creation of the Carbon Trust in Wales is driving forward the advantages of energy efficiency measures in several ways: first, by deploying dedicated client managers working with companies to identify, develop and exploit energy efficiency technologies in Wales; secondly, by promoting innovation and research and development through the product life cycle; thirdly, implementing a low-carbon innovation programme, action energy site visits, and technical support to business; and finally, by providing enhanced capital allowances and a low-interest loan scheme, design advice and an action energy helpline.
Mae creu’r Ymddiriedolaeth Carbon yng Nghymru yn hybu manteisio mesurau effeithlonrwydd ynni mewn sawl ffordd: yn gyntaf, drwy ddefnyddio rheolwyr cleient penodedig sy’n gweithio gyda chwmnïau i nodi, datblygu a manteisio i’r eithaf ar dechnolegau effeithlonrwydd ynni yng Nghymru; yn ail, drwy hyrwyddo arloesedd ac ymchwil a datblygu drwy gylch bywyd y cynnyrch; yn drydydd, gweithredu rhaglen arloesol carbon-isel, cynnal ymweliadau â safleoedd ynni, a chymorth technegol i fusnesau; ac yn olaf, drwy ddarparu lwfansau cyfalaf gwell a chynllun benthyciadau llog isel, cymorth o ran dylunio a llinell gymorth ynni.
As I said in April this year in my statement on energy, Wales has the opportunity to be a global showcase for clean energy production, and to develop a significant indigenous generating and supply industry in the new renewable energy technologies. We already significantly contribute to onshore wind electricity generation. We have 15 major windfarms with an installed capacity of 153 megawatts. We are therefore already playing a significant role in UK terms, but we have the geography, climate and resources to do far more.
Fel y dywedais ym mis Ebrill eleni yn fy natganiad ar ynni, mae gan Gymru y cyfle i fod yn esiampl fyd-eang o ran cynhyrchu ynni glân, a datblygu diwydiant cynhyrchu a chyflenwi sylweddol cynhenid yn y technolegau ynni adnewyddadwy newydd. Yr ydym eisoes yn cyfrannu’n sylweddol tuag at gynhyrchu trydan gwynt ar y tir. Mae gennym 15 o ffermydd gwynt mawr gyda chapasiti o 153 megawat. Yr ydym felly eisoes yn chwarae rhan allweddol yn nhermau’r DU, ond mae gennym y ddaearyddiaeth, yr hinsawdd a’r adnoddau i wneud llawer mwy.
Wales’s estuaries and extensive coastline of over 1,000 miles, provide a wealth of potential for offshore energy generation technologies, which have a significant role to play in future energy generation. We hope that offshore generation will feature strongly in future energy policies for Wales. We are working closely with the UK Government to develop a strategic framework for the offshore wind energy industry. The three proposed offshore windfarms in Welsh waters are a major and progressive first step towards further developing the renewable energy sector in Wales.
Mae aberoedd ac arfordir helaeth Cymru o fwy na 1,000 o filltiroedd, yn gyfoeth o botensial ar gyfer technolegau cynhyrchu ynni alltraeth, sydd â rhan sylweddol i’w chwarae mewn cynhyrchu ynni yn y dyfodol. Gobeithiwn y bydd cynhyrchu ynni alltraeth yn nodwedd gref o bolisïau ynni’r dyfodol ar gyfer Cymru. Yr ydym yn gweithio’n agos gyda Llywodraeth y DU i ddatblygu fframwaith strategol ar gyfer y diwydiant ynni gwynt alltraeth. Mae’r tair fferm wynt alltraeth arfaethedig yn nyfroedd Cymru yn gam cyntaf blaengar o bwys tuag at ddatblygu’r sector ynni adnewyddadwy yng Nghymru ymhellach.
I am pleased that the North Hoyle project, for example, has received the necessary consents. It appears that it will be the first of the 18 demonstration sites to be developed on a UK basis, and the nearby Rhyl Flats site also looks promising. If global climate change and renewable energy targets require us to bring forward other potential offshore schemes, Wales has the geographical advantage of being able to provide the locations for tidal stream, wave, and tidal barrage technologies to be developed also. The Welsh Development Agency will work closely with companies to develop supply chain clusters to serve this emerging new industry.
Yr wyf yn falch bod prosiect North Hoyle er enghraifft, wedi cael y caniatâd angenrheidiol. Ymddengys mai dyma fydd y cyntaf o’r 18 safle arddangos i’w datblygu yn y DU, ac mae safle cyfagos Gwastadeddau’r Rhyl hefyd yn edrych yn addawol. Os bydd newid yn hinsawdd y byd a thargedau ynni adnewyddadwy yn peri inni orfod cynnig cynlluniau alltraeth eraill posibl, mae gan Gymru’r fantais ddaearyddol o allu darparu’r lleoliadau ar gyfer datblygu technolegau llif y llanw, tonnau a morglawdd llanw hefyd. Bydd Awdurdod Datblygu Cymru yn gweithio’n agos gyda chwmnïau i ddatblygu clystyrau cadwyn gyflenwi i wasanaethu’r diwydiant newydd hwn.
Biomass energy production also has the potential to flourish. The woodland development and biomass strategy group’s action plan was discussed and agreed in Plenary. My colleague, the Deputy First Minister and Minister for Rural Development and Wales Abroad, is in the process of setting up a ministerial steering group to take the action plan forward.
Mae cynhyrchu ynni biomas hefyd yn meddu ar y potensial i ffynnu. Trafodwyd cynllun gweithredu grŵp strategaeth datblygu coetir a biomas a chytunwyd arni yn y Cyfarfod Llawn. Mae fy nghyd-Aelod, y Dirprwy Brif Weinidog a’r Gweinidog dros Ddatblygu Gwledig a Chymru Dramor, yn y broses o sefydlu grŵp llywio o weinidogion i ddatblygu’r cynllun gweithredu.
In Wales, the main mature renewable energy technologies that have the potential to contribute to our aims are: onshore wind energy, offshore wind energy, hydro power, biomass, active solar heating, photovoltaics, tidal power, wave power and energy-from-waste technologies. In the short to medium term, onshore wind energy, biomass, hydro power, photovoltaics and active solar heating offer the best opportunities for implementation and industry development. We hope that it will be possible to achieve our target of 20 per cent of energy production being from renewable energy sources by 2020. In the longer term, that percentage could be far more, especially from marine sources.
Yng Nghymru, y prif dechnolegau ynni adnewyddadwy aeddfed sydd â’r potensial i gyfrannu at ein hamcanion yw: ynni’r gwynt ar y tir, ynni’r gwynt alltraeth, ynni dŵr, biomas, gwresogi drwy’r haul, ffotofoltedd, ynni’r llanw, ynni tonnau a thechnolegau creu ynni o wastraff. Yn y tymor byr i’r tymor canolig, ynni’r gwynt ar y tir, biomas, ynni dŵr, ffotofoltedd a gwresogi drwy’r haul sy’n cynnig y cyfleoedd gorau ar gyfer gweithredu’r technolegau a datblygu’r diwydiant. Gobeithiwn y bydd yn bosibl cyflawni ein targed o gynhyrchu 20 y cant o ynni o ffynonellau ynni adnewyddadwy erbyn 2020. Yn y tymor hwy, gallai’r ganran honno fod yn llawer uwch, yn arbennig o ffynonellau morol.
However, to say that any form of power generation has no environmental impact is to ignore the evidence. All generating stations have environmental consequences. The vigorous debate on wind power and the long-standing studies into the Severn barrage all demonstrate that. That is one reason why we are discussing with the UK Government transferring legislative powers over electricity generation to Wales. The UK Government is considering our proposal. However, this is a complex issue. Any decision by the UK Government will need to take full account of the wider impact of any transfer of powers on wider UK energy policy, and on the integrated energy system and market. It therefore requires careful and finally balanced consideration.
Fodd bynnag, anwybyddu’r dystiolaeth yw dweud na chaiff unrhyw ffurf o gynhyrchu ynni unrhyw effaith amgylcheddol. Mae goblygiadau amgylcheddol i bob gorsaf cynhyrchu ynni. Mae’r ddadl fywiog ar ynni’r gwynt a’r astudiaethau maith i forglawdd Hafren oll yn dangos hynny. Dyna un rheswm pam ein bod yn trafod trosglwyddo pwerau deddfwriaethol dros gynhyrchu trydan i Gymru gyda Llywodraeth y DU. Mae Llywodraeth y DU yn ystyried ein cynnig. Fodd bynnag, mae hwn yn fater cymhleth. Bydd angen i unrhyw benderfyniad gan Lywodraeth y DU ystyried yn llawn effaith ehangach trosglwyddo pŵer ar bolisi ynni ehangach y DU, ac ar system a marchnad ynni integredig. Felly mae’n gofyn am ystyriaeth ofalus a chytbwys.
In considering the future development of energy policy, it is essential to take account of the fact that, even if renewable energy targets are achieved, the bulk of electricity generated will, for the foreseeable future, be from conventional sources. In Wales, there is great potential for the cleaner utilisation of fossil fuels. Highly efficient gas-fired power stations provide a relatively clean source of generation, and as the UK’s offshore resources decline, the role of liquefied natural gas as a fuel source will become more important in the next decade.
Wrth ystyried datblygu polisi ynni yn y dyfodol, mae’n hanfodol ystyried y ffaith, hyd yn oed os cyflawnir targedau ynni adnewyddadwy, bydd y rhan fwyaf o’r trydan a gynhyrchir, yn y dyfodol agos, yn dod o ffynonellau traddodiadol. Yng Nghymru, mae potensial mawr ar gyfer defnyddio tanwydd ffosiledig mewn ffordd lanach. Mae gorsafoedd ynni nwy tra effeithlon yn ffynhonnell gymharol lân o gynhyrchu ynni, ac wrth i adnoddau alltraeth y DU ddiflannu, bydd rôl nwy naturiol hylifol fel ffynhonnell o danwydd yn dod yn bwysicach yn ystod y degawd nesaf.
The Milford Haven waterway offers huge potential for the importation of LNG, not just into Wales but the whole of the UK. In addition, significant gas reserves off the Pembrokeshire coast can be tapped. Also, Wales has abundant coal reserves, and the coal-fired power station at Aberthaw is the major source of electricity generation in south Wales. The life-span of the station could be extended by the installation of flue-gas desulphurisation technology. Advanced technology to reduce most emissions from a new coal-fired power station to the level of those of a gas-fired power station may also have considerable potential.
Mae i ddyfrffordd Aberdaugleddau botensial mawr ar gyfer mewnforio nwy naturiol hylifol, i’r DU gyfan yn ogystal â Chymru. Yn ogystal, gellir defnyddio cronfeydd nwy sylweddol oddi ar arfordir Sir Benfro. Hefyd, mae digonedd o gronfeydd glo yng Nghymru, ac mae’r orsaf ynni glo yn Aberddawan yn brif ffynhonnell cynhyrchu trydan yn ne Cymru. Gellid ymestyn oes yr orsaf drwy osod technoleg dadswlffwreiddio nwy ffliw. Mae’n bosibl bod cryn botensial hefyd i dechnoleg uwch i leihau’r rhan fwyaf o ollyngiadau o orsaf ynni glo newydd i lefel y gollyngiadau o orsaf ynni nwy.
The role of carbon sequestration is less certain, particularly in revitalising the role of coal and hydrogen fuels, which is of significance for vehicles. Both have enormous potential but are extremely complex. For example, a hydrogen economy may well require much cleaner electricity production than is currently envisaged. The lights must stay on. Those in Wales who suffered power cuts during the recent storms can attest to the problems of being without power. However, we must balance our insatiable demand for energy against the threat of global warming. Energy efficiency measures, highly efficient gas-fired power stations, and the development of the renewable energy industry all have important parts to play in achieving our sustainable development ambitions. Those colleagues who have visited the General Electric power station under construction at Baglan bay—the best in the world—will know that it will be hugely efficient compared to previous models. It is clear from what I have said so far that in Wales we have a wealth of options and an exciting opportunity to make a valuable contribution to energy generation.
Mae rôl ynysu carbon yn llai sicr, yn arbennig o ran adfywio rôl tanwydd glo a hydrogen, sy’n arwyddocaol ar gyfer cerbydau. Mae potensial mawr i’r ddau ond maent yn hynod gymhleth. Er enghraifft, efallai y bydd angen dull llawer glanach o gynhyrchu trydan ar economi hydrogen nag a ragwelir ar hyn o bryd. Rhaid i’r golau aros ynghyn. Gall y rheini yng Nghymru a ddioddefodd doriadau yn eu trydan yn ystod y stormydd diweddar dystio i’r problemau o fod heb bŵer. Fodd bynnag, rhaid inni gydbwyso ein galw am ynni, na ellir ei ddiwallu, yn erbyn y bygythiad o gynhesu byd-eang. Mae gan fesurau effeithlonrwydd ynni, gorsafoedd ynni nwy tra effeithlon, a datblygiad y diwydiant ynni adnewyddadwy oll ran bwysig i’w chwarae er mwyn gwireddu ein dyheadau o ran datblygiad cynaliadwy. Bydd y cyd-Aelodau hynny sydd wedi ymweld â gorsaf ynni General Electric sydd wrthi’n cael ei hadeiladu ym Mae Baglan—y gorau yn y byd—yn gwybod y bydd yn hynod o effeithlon o gymharu â modelau blaenorol. Mae’n amlwg o’r hyn a ddywedais hyd yma bod gennym gyfoeth o opsiynau yng Nghymru a chyfle cyffrous i wneud cyfraniad gwerthfawr i gynhyrchu ynni.
The cost of producing electricity from nuclear power stations is difficult to establish. The Performance and Innovation Unit’s recent report predicts that the cost of new nuclear generation will range from 2.5p to 4p per kilowatt in 2020. Nuclear power seems likely to remain much more expensive than fossil fuel generation. In Wales, we have an 800 MW nuclear power station, which is not only a major source of electricity but also of well-paid jobs in Anglesey. Some estimates indicate that Wylfa power station is responsible for 25 per cent of the gross domestic product per capita for the whole of Anglesey. That becomes higher still if we take into account the strong link between Wylfa and Anglesey Aluminium Metal Ltd, which is another, if not the, major employer on the island. The costs and benefits of nuclear power are by no means clear-cut. However, the main focus of public concern over nuclear power is, quite rightly, the unsolved problem of long-term nuclear waste disposal coupled to perceptions of nuclear power stations’ vulnerability to accidents and attack. Any Government move to advance the use of nuclear power to produce a low-carbon and indigenous source of electricity would need widespread public acceptance. Logically, this would only happen if progress were made in dealing with the problem of waste.
Mae’r gost o gynhyrchu trydan o orsafoedd ynni niwclear yn anodd i’w phennu. Mae adroddiad diweddar yr Uned Perfformiad ac Arloesedd yn rhagweld y bydd y gost o gynhyrchu ynni niwclear newydd yn amrywio o 2.5c i 4c fesul cilowat yn 2020. Mae’n debygol y bydd ynni niwclear yn parhau i fod yn llawer mwy costus na chynhyrchu ynni drwy danwydd ffosiledig. Yng Nghymru, mae gennym orsafoedd ynni niwclear 800 MW, sydd yn nid yn unig yn brif ffynhonnell trydan ond hefyd yn brif ffynhonnell swyddi â chyflogau da ar Ynys Môn. Dengys rhai amcangyfrifon bod gorsaf ynni’r Wylfa yn gyfrifol am 25 y cant o’r cynnyrch mewnwladol crynswch y pen ar gyfer Ynys Môn gyfan. Aiff hynny’n uwch os ystyriwn y cyswllt cryf rhwng yr Wylfa ac Alwminiwm Môn Cyf, sydd yn gyflogwr mawr arall ar yr ynys, os nad y mwyaf. Nid yw costau a manteision ynni niwclear yn syml o bell ffordd. Fodd bynnag, prif ffocws pryder y cyhoedd ynghylch ynni niwclear, a hynny’n briodol, yw problem gwaredu gwastraff niwclear yn y tymor hir, sydd heb ei datrys, ynghyd â’r canfyddiadau bod gorsafoedd ynni niwclear yn agored i ddamweiniau ac ymosodiadau. Byddai’n rhaid i unrhyw gam gan y Llywodraeth i gynyddu’r defnydd o ynni niwclear i greu ffynhonnell o drydan gynhenid na fyddai’n cynhyrchu llawer o garbon gael ei dderbyn yn gyffredinol gan y cyhoedd. Yn rhesymegol, dim ond pe gwnaed cynnydd wrth ddelio â’r broblem gwastraff y byddai hyn yn digwydd.
Undoubtedly, this is a period of great and significant change in developing an energy policy for future generations. The question posed in this debate is, ‘is nuclear power the only option?’ I hope that I have amply demonstrated that the answer must be ‘no’. There are a number of renewable and sustainable energy options available to us in Wales that must be vigorously pursued. We must maintain a close and careful understanding of the nuclear generation of power. However, to regard it as the only option is a mistake. By taking the actions that I have outlined this afternoon, we are determined that it should not become so.
Yn ddi-os, mae hwn yn gyfnod o newid mawr ac arwyddocaol o ran datblygu polisi ynni ar gyfer cenedlaethau’r dyfodol. Y cwestiwn yn y ddadl hon yw, ‘ai ynni niwclear yw’r unig ddewis?’ Gobeithiaf fy mod wedi dangos yn ddigonol mai ‘nage’ yw’r ateb. Mae sawl dewis o ynni adnewyddadwy a chynaliadwy ar gael inni yng Nghymru a rhaid inni fynd ar drywydd y rheini yn frwd. Rhaid inni sicrhau dealltwriaeth fanwl a gofalus o’r dull niwclear o gynhyrchu ynni. Fodd bynnag, mae’n gamgymeriad ei ystyried fel yr unig ddewis. Drwy gymryd y camau a amlinellais y prynhawn yma, yr ydym yn benderfynol nad hwn fydd yr unig ddewis.
In conclusion, the First Minister and I will host a Welsh energy summit for the major Welsh generators and key industry players later this month. This will be an excellent and timely opportunity to discuss the key issues facing the industry. I hope, therefore, that Wales will continue to make an important contribution to this ongoing and significant energy debate.
I gloi, bydd y Prif Weinidog a minnau yn cynnal uwchgynhadledd ynni Cymru ar gyfer prif gynhyrchwyr ynni Cymru a phrif gyfranogwyr y diwydiant yn ddiweddarach y mis hwn. Bydd hwn yn gyfle gwych ac amserol i drafod y materion allweddol sy’n wynebu’r diwydiant. Gobeithiaf, felly, y bydd Cymru yn parhau i wneud cyfraniad pwysig i’r ddadl barhaus ac arwyddocaol hon ar ynni.
Daeth y cyfarfod i ben am 5.31 p.m.
The session ended at 5.31 p.m.