Cymraeg

Cynulliad Cenedlaethol CymruNational Assembly for Wales · Cyfarfod llawnPlenary sitting

Dydd Mawrth 26 Tachwedd 2002

Tuesday 26 November 2002

DechreuoddMet 14:00 · Daeth i benRose 17:42

Gweld y Cofnod (PDF)View the Record (PDF)

Heb ei wirio â llaw etoNot yet checked by hand

CynnwysContents

  1. 3Datganiad gan y LlywyddStatement by the Presiding Officer
  2. 3Cwestiynau i’r Prif WeinidogQuestions to the First Minister
    1. 3AbergwaunFishguard
    2. 6Adsefydlu Pobl sy’n Gaeth i Gyffuriau ac AlcoholDrug and Alcohol Rehabilitation
    3. 8Canolfannau y Cynulliad DramorAssembly Overseas Centres
    4. 11Polisi AilgylchuRecycling Policy
    5. 13Cefnogi Hen Bobl a Phobl Fregus EraillSupporting Senior Citizens and Other Vunerable People
    6. 16Cynllun Pensiwn Allied Steel and WireAllied Steel and Wire Pension Scheme
    7. 17Adolygiadau o Awdurdodau LleolReviews of Local Authorities
    8. 20Canllawiau i WeinidogionGuidance to Ministers
    9. 21Dyfodol Swyddfeydd Post Trefol CymruThe Future of Urban Post Offices in Wales
    10. 24Is-Bwyllgor y Cabinet ar Blant a Phobl IfancChildren and Young People Cabinet Sub-Committee
  3. 25Datganiad ar ‘Cynllunio: Cyflawni dros Gymru’Statement on ‘Planning: Delivering for Wales’
  4. 42Datganiad BusnesBusiness Statement 1 bleidlais1 vote
  5. 45Penderfyniadau gan y Dirprwy Lywydd o dan Reol Sefydlog Rhif 22.5Determinations by the Deputy Presiding Officer under Standing Order No. 22.5 1 bleidlais1 vote
  6. 52Pwyntiau o DrefnPoints of Order
  7. 56Datganiad gan Ysgrifennydd Gwladol Cymru ar Araith y FrenhinesStatement by the Secretary of State for Wales on the Queen’s Speech
  8. 79Yr Amserlen Tri Mis Arfaethedig ar gyfer Busnes y CynulliadThe Proposed Three-month Timetable of Assembly Business 1 bleidlais1 vote
  9. 81Dadl Plaid Leiafrifol (Plaid Cymru)Minority Party Debate (Plaid Cymru) 3 o bleidleisiau3 votes
    1. 81Taliadau Premiwm Blynyddol DefaidSheep Annual Premium Payments 3 o bleidleisiau3 votes

PleidleisiauVotes

PleidlaisVoteO blaidForYmatalAbstainYn erbynAgainstCanlyniadResult
Datganiad BusnesBusiness Statement
CynnigMotion31022DerbyniwydAdopted
Penderfyniadau gan y Dirprwy Lywydd o dan Reol Sefydlog Rhif 22.5Determinations by the Deputy Presiding Officer under Standing Order No. 22.5
CynnigMotion32157DerbyniwydAdopted
Yr Amserlen Tri Mis Arfaethedig ar gyfer Busnes y CynulliadThe Proposed Three-month Timetable of Assembly Business
Cynnig NDM1224Motion NDM12244500DerbyniwydAdopted
Taliadau Premiwm Blynyddol DefaidSheep Annual Premium Payments
Gwelliant 1Amendment 129020DerbyniwydAdopted
Gwelliant 2Amendment 27041GwrthodwydRejected
Cynnig wedi’i ddiwygioAmended motion28020DerbyniwydAdopted

TrafodionProceedings

Cyfarfu’r Cynulliad am 2 p.m. gyda’r Llywydd yn y Gadair.

The Assembly met at 2 p.m. with the Presiding Officer in the Chair.

Datganiad gan y Llywydd

Statement by the Presiding Officer

Dafydd Elis-Thomas Y Llywydd siaradwyd yn Gymraeg t. 3

Dafydd Elis-Thomas The Presiding Officer spoken in Welsh p. 3

Croesawaf Ysgrifennydd Gwladol Cymru, Peter Hain, i’r Cynulliad. Cawn ddatganiad ganddo yn nes ymlaen.

I welcome the Secretary of State for Wales, Peter Hain, to the Assembly. We will hear a statement from him later on.

Cwestiynau i’r Prif Weinidog

Questions to the First Minister

Abergwaun

Fishguard

C1 Cynog Dafis siaradwyd yn Gymraeg t. 3

Q1 Cynog Dafis spoken in Welsh p. 3

Pa gynlluniau penodol sydd gan y Prif Weinidog i drefnu bod pecyn adfywhau cynhwysfawr yn cael ei baratoi i ddatrys problemau economaidd Abergwaun? (OAQ20503)

What specific plans does the First Minister have to arrange a comprehensive regeneration package to solve the economic problems of Fishguard? (OAQ20503)

Rhodri Morgan Y Prif Weinidog siaradwyd yn Gymraeg t. 3

Rhodri Morgan The First Minister spoken in Welsh p. 3

Mae Llywodraeth Cynulliad Cymru wedi ymrwymo i greu hinsawdd y gall busnesau ffynnu ynddi ym mhob rhan o Gymru, gan gynnwys Abergwaun. Cynhaliwyd cyfarfod ddydd Iau diwethaf rhwng y Gweinidog dros Ddatblygu Economaidd, Aelodau perthnasol a chynrychiolwyr y gweithlu yn Abergwaun i ddelio â’r problemau ac i ystyried pa fath o gynllun sydd ei angen ar economi gogledd Sir Benfro.

The Welsh Assembly Government is committed to creating a climate in which businesses can thrive in all parts of Wales, including Fishguard. A meeting was held last Thursday between the Minister for Economic Development, relevant Members and representatives of the Fishguard workforce to deal with the problems and consider what sort of scheme is needed for the north Pembrokeshire economy.

Cynog Dafis siaradwyd yn Gymraeg t. 3

Cynog Dafis spoken in Welsh p. 3

Byddwn yn trafod Aelodau perthnasol yn y man. Fodd bynnag, daeth y Gweinidog dros Ddatblygu Economaidd i Abergwaun hanner awr yn hwyr, yn waglaw, yn hunanfoddhaus a’i ben yn wag o unrhyw syniadau neu ddealltwriaeth o’r sefyllfa yno. Gofynnodd am i gynllun gweithredu gael ei baratoi erbyn diwedd mis Ionawr heb gynnig unrhyw help. A wnaiff y Prif Weinidog warantu y bydd adnoddau ar gael i wireddu pa gynllun gweithredu bynnag y cytunir arno i sicrhau y caiff Abergwaun gyfle i adfywio ar ôl ergydion y blynyddoedd diwethaf?

We will be discussing relevant Members shortly. However, the Minister for Economic Development arrived at Fishguard half an hour late, empty-handed, self-satisfied, clueless and with no understanding of the situation there. He asked for an action plan to be prepared by the end of January without offering any help. Will the First Minister guarantee that resources will be available to implement whatever action plan is agreed so that Fishguard has the opportunity to regenerate after the blows of recent years?

Rhodri Morgan Y Prif Weinidog siaradwyd yn Gymraeg t. 3

Rhodri Morgan The First Minister spoken in Welsh p. 3

Wrth gwrs mae hynny’n dilyn yn sgîl y problemau sydd yn gyfrifol am gau gwaith Dewhirst yng Ngwdig yn ystod y misoedd nesaf. Bydd angen cynllun i adfywio’r economi yno. Bydd yr hyn yr ydym yn ei baratoi yn berthnasol i broblemau’r ardal. Nid yw cwynion a beirniadaeth orbersonol Cynog yn deg. Mae llawer o syniadau yn cael eu crynhoi ac mae llawer yn cael ei baratoi ar gyfer adfywio’r economi ar ôl colli swyddi yn sgîl penderfyniadau cwmni Dewhirst. Mae diddordeb mawr yn y safle. Hyd y gwyddom, mae dau gwmni yn ystyried y posibilrwydd o ddefnyddio sgiliau’r bobl yn y diwydiant gwnïo yno, sydd yn gweithio yn awr neu a fu’n gweithio tan yn ddiweddar i Dewhirst. Mae dau gwmni yn dangos diddordeb. Gydag elfen o lwc, arian, grantiau ac yn y blaen, bydd un cwmni yn cymryd y safle. Os ydym yn llwyddo i ddenu cwmni i gyflogi’r bobl a gollodd eu swyddi, bydd pawb yn hapus. Os na allwn, bydd llawer o bethau eraill yn gorfod dilyn, gan gynnwys adeiladu marina yng Ngwdig.

Of course that follows as a result of the problems responsible for the closure of the Dewhirst factory in Goodwick in the coming months. A scheme will be needed to regenerate the economy there. What we are preparing will be relevant to the area’s problems. Cynog’s complaints and over-personal criticism are unfair. Many ideas are being collated and much is in preparation to regenerate the economy following the job losses caused by Dewhirst’s decisions. There is great interest in the site. To our knowledge, two companies are looking at the possibility of using local people’s skills in the clothing industry, who are currently working or have until recently worked for Dewhirst. Two companies are showing interest. With a little bit of luck, funding, grants and so on, one company will take over. If we succeed in attracting a company to employ the people who have lost their jobs, then everyone will be happy. If not, many other approaches will have to follow, including building a marina at Goodwick.

Richard Edwards spoken in English p. 4

Richard Edwards siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 4

I am grateful to the Minister for Ecoomic Development for attending a meeting I convened in Fishguard last Thursday, to which Cynog alluded, to listen to and discuss plans for local regeneration with local people. I also invited Cynog upon request, and he was constructive, although you would not think so to hear him today. However, five days is a long time in politics. Contrary to Cynog’s insinuation, are you aware that the spirit of the meeting was positive and determined and that local people are prepared to do something themselves about their predicament, but need and deserve the support and encouragement of the Assembly and its agencies?

Yr wyf yn ddiolchgar i’r Gweinidog dros Ddatblygu Economaidd am ddod i gyfarfod a gynullais yn Abergwaun ddydd Iau diwethaf, y cyfeiriodd Cynog ato, i wrando ar gynlluniau ar gyfer adfywio lleol a’u trafod gyda phobl leol. Estynnais wahoddiad i Cynog hefyd ar ei gais, a bu’n adeiladol, er na chredech hynny o wrando arno heddiw. Fodd bynnag, mae pum diwrnod yn gyfnod hir mewn gwleidyddiaeth. Yn groes i’r hyn a ensyniodd Cynog, a ydych yn ymwybodol bod ysbryd y cyfarfod yn gadarnhaol ac yn benderfynol a bod pobl leol yn barod i wneud rhywbeth eu hunain am eu trafferthion, ond bod arnynt angen cymorth ac anogaeth gan y Cynulliad a’i asiantaethau fel y maent yn haeddu?

Rhodri Morgan The First Minister spoken in English p. 4

Rhodri Morgan Y Prif Weinidog siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 4

Yes, indeed. We have been looking for that kind of spirit and are trying to support the ideas that emerge from the local community. There are many such ideas. Some involve self-employment, co-operative employment, new employers and new ideas, such as the marina that I mentioned. However, some of those ideas probably do not include the shopping list or strategy that Cynog mentioned when he last raised this issue. He seemed to think that moving the entrance to the local secondary school would somehow create jobs in Fishguard. That is absurd. You must not produce shopping lists and pretend that a shopping list is a strategy. Developing a strategy is the way to create new jobs in an area that has been hit badly by the withdrawal of its major private sector employer.

Ydwyf, yn wir. Buom yn chwilio am ysbryd o’r fath ac yr ydym yn ceisio cefnogi’r syniadau a ddaw o’r gymuned leol. Mae llawer o syniadau o’r fath. Mae rhai’n ymwneud â hunangyflogaeth, cyflogaeth gydweithredol, cyflogwyr newydd a syniadau newydd, fel y marina a grybwyllais. Fodd bynnag, mae’n debyg nad yw rhai o’r syniadau hynny’n cynnwys y rhestr siopa neu strategaeth y soniodd Cynog amdani y tro diwethaf iddo godi’r mater hwn. Ymddangosai ei fod yn credu y byddai symud mynedfa’r ysgol uwchradd leol rywsut yn creu swyddi yn Abergwaun. Mae hynny’n hurt. Ni ddylech ddangos rhestrau siopa a chymryd arnoch mai strategaeth yw rhestr siopa. Datblygu strategaeth yw’r modd i greu swyddi newydd mewn ardal a gafodd ergyd drwm am fod ei chyflogwr sector preifat mwyaf wedi tynnu allan.

Ieuan Wyn Jones Arweinydd yr Wrthblaid siaradwyd yn Gymraeg t. 5

Ieuan Wyn Jones The Leader of the Opposition spoken in Welsh p. 5

A yw’r Prif Weinidog yn derbyn y bydd y colledion swyddi gweithgynhyrchu yn Abergwaun a gorllewin Cymru yn ogystal â’r colledion yn Corus yn arwain at ostyngiad pellach yn lefel cynnyrch mewnwladol crynswth y pen Cymru o’i gymharu â gweddill Prydain?

Does the First Minister accept that the manufacturing job losses in Fishguard and west Wales as well as the job losses in Corus will lead to a further reduction in the level of gross domestic product per capita in Wales compared with the rest of Britain?

Rhodri Morgan Y Prif Weinidog siaradwyd yn Gymraeg t. 5

Rhodri Morgan The First Minister spoken in Welsh p. 5

Mae’n anodd dweud hynny cyn cyhoeddi’r ystadegau. O ran cyflogaeth, yr ydym yn gweithio ar ystadegau hyd at fis Medi 2002. Er ein bod wedi talu arian ychwanegol i fesur hyn, ni wyddom eto beth yw ein CMC y pen ar ôl 1999 o’i gymharu â Phrydain. Dangosodd yr ystadegau diweddaraf, ar gyfer 1999, cyn i’r Cynulliad gael ei sefydlu, fod CMC y pen Cymru yn 81.9 y cant o gyfartaledd y Deyrnas Unedig. Dyna oedd y sefyllfa cyn bodolaeth y Cynulliad. Ni wyddwn beth fydd yr ystadegau nesaf yn ei ddangos.

It is difficult to say that before the statistics are published. On employment, we are working on statistics that go up to September 2002. Although we have made additional funding available to measure this, we do not know yet what the per capita GDP is after 1999 compared with that of the UK. The latest statistics for 1999, prior to the Assembly’s inception, indicated that the GDP per capita in Wales was 81.9 per cent of the United Kingdom average. That was the situation before the Assembly came into existence. We do not know what the next set of statistics will show.

Ieuan Wyn Jones siaradwyd yn Gymraeg t. 5

Ieuan Wyn Jones spoken in Welsh p. 5

A welsoch sylwadau’r Athro Dylan Jones-Evans? Mae ef yn sicr y bydd y ffigurau nesaf yn dangos gostyngiad pellach yn lefel CMC y pen Cymru o’i gymharu â gweddill Prydain. Mae’n cynnig dadl syml. Dywed fod 19,000 o swyddi wedi eu colli mewn gweithgynhyrchu a bod y swyddi a ddaeth yn eu lle yn rhai rhan amser yn y sector gwasanaethau, lle y mae’r cyflogau gymaint yn llai. Mae Dylan Jones-Evans yn cymharu’r ffeithiau moel hynny â’r hyn y mae’r Gweinidog dros Ddatblygu Economaidd wedi ei wneud. Pryd dderbyniwch fod polisi Llywodraeth Cynulliad Cymru ar hyn o bryd yn arwain at ledu’r bwlch mewn ffyniant rhwng Cymru a gweddill Prydain yn hytrach na’i gau?

Have you seen the comments made by Professor Dylan Jones-Evans? He is certain that the next set of figures will show a further reduction in the per capita GDP in Wales compared with the rest of Britain. His argument is simple. He states that 19,000 jobs have been lost in manufacturing and that the jobs that have replaced them are part-time posts in the service sector where wages are much lower. Dylan Jones-Evans compares those bare facts with what the Minister for Economic Development has done. When will you accept that the Welsh Assembly Government’s current policy leads to a widening of the gap between Wales and the rest of Britain rather than narrowing it?

Rhodri Morgan Y Prif Weinidog siaradwyd yn Gymraeg t. 5

Rhodri Morgan The First Minister spoken in Welsh p. 5

Nid wyf yn sicr pa bwynt y mae’r Athro Dylan Jones-Evans yn ceisio ei wneud. Credaf ei fod yn camddeall natur yr ystadegau newydd a gyhoeddwyd yn dangos y ffigurau newydd—CMC y pen Cymru yn 81.9 y cant o gyfartaledd y DU—cyn sefydlu’r Cynulliad. Ni chredaf ei fod wedi deall y newidiadau yn yr ystadegau. Dyna’r hyn yr wyf yn ei ddeall yn ôl ein hystadegwyr ni. Ni ddylai athro economeg fyth ragdybio ystadegau—mae’n llawer doethach i aros nes bod yr ystadegau’n cael eu cyhoeddi.

I am not sure what point Professor Dylan Jones-Evans is trying to make. I think that he has misunderstood the nature of the new statistics—Wales’s per capita GDP at 81.9 per cent of the UK average—before the Assembly was established. I do not think that he has understood the changes in the statistics. That is what I understand from our statisticians. No professor of economics should ever try to anticipate figures—it is much wiser to wait until the figures are published.

O ran pa un a yw’r bwlch mewn ffyniant yn mynd yn fwy neu’n llai, y peth pwysig yw bod cyflogaeth wedi codi o 33,000 yn y flwyddyn o Fedi 2001 hyd at Fedi 2002. Dylai pawb, gan gynnwys arweinydd yr wrthblaid a’r Athro Dylan Jones-Evans, ymfalchïo yn y ffaith honno. Cyhoeddwyd yr ystadegau ac maent yn amserol gan eu bod yn cynnwys y cyfnod hyd at ddeufis yn ôl.

On whether the gap in prosperity is narrowing or widening, the important thing is that employment has increased by 33,000 in the year from September 2001 to September 2002. Everyone, including the leader of the opposition and Professor Dylan Jones-Evans, should take pride in that fact. The statistics have been published and they are timely because they go right up to two months ago.

Delyth Evans siaradwyd yn Gymraeg t. 6

Delyth Evans spoken in Welsh p. 6

A gytunwch, Brif Weinidog, fod tacteg Plaid Cymru o geisio beio’r Llywodraeth am bob problem sydd gan Abergwaun yn gwneud dim i helpu’r gymuned honno? A gytunwch hefyd fod ymdrechion y Gweinidog dros Ddatblygu Economaidd, Andrew Davies, i weithio mewn partneriaeth gyda’r gymuned leol er mwyn datblygu hyder a menter yn y gymuned—yn enwedig drwy geisio datblygu cysylltiadau gydag Iwerddon—yn cynnig llawer gwell dyfodol i drigolion yr ardal?

Do you agree, First Minister, that Plaid Cymu’s tactic of trying to blame the Government for all of Fishguard’s problems does nothing to assist the community there? Do you also agree that the efforts of the Minister for Economic Development, Andrew Davies, to work in partnership with the local community to develop confidence and enterprise in that community—particularly in trying to forge links with Ireland—offer a much better future for the people of the area?

Rhodri Morgan Y Prif Weinidog siaradwyd yn Gymraeg t. 6

Rhodri Morgan The First Minister spoken in Welsh p. 6

Dyna a geisiwn ei wneud. Ceisiwn ragweld pa fath o broblemau a fydd gennym pan fydd ffatri Dewhirst yn cau yn y flwyddyn newydd, ac ystyried sut y gallwn ail-greu swyddi mewn ardal fel Abergwaun. Cafodd nifer o syniadau eu crybwyll a’u hystyried yn y cyfarfod a gynhaliwyd yn Abergwaun. Mae’r sefyllfa yn eithaf calonogol. Er ei bod yn debygol y bydd bwlch cyn y bydd swyddi newydd yn cael eu creu, ni fydd yn para’n rhy hir.

That is what we are trying to do. We are trying to anticipate the problems that will arise when the Dewhirst factory closes in the new year, and consider how we can regenerate jobs in Fishguard. Many ideas were mentioned and considered at the meeting held in Fishguard. The situation is quite encouraging. Although there is likely to be a hiatus before new jobs are created, it will not last for long.

Adsefydlu Pobl sy’n Gaeth i Gyffuriau ac Alcohol

Drug and Alcohol Rehabilitation

Q2 Janice Gregory spoken in English p. 6

C2 Janice Gregory siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 6

What action is the First Minister’s Government taking to support drug and alcohol rehabilitation? (OAQ20489)

Pa gamau mae Llywodraeth y Prif Weinidog yn eu cymryd i gefnogi mesurau i adsefydlu pobl sy’n gaeth i gyffuriau ac alcohol? (OAQ20489)

Rhodri Morgan The First Minister spoken in English p. 7

Rhodri Morgan Y Prif Weinidog siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 7

My colleague, Edwina Hart, said in her budget statement that there would be an additional £3 million for next year, £6 million for 2004-05 and £9 million for 2005-06. This will impact on the number of places that will be made available. This money will allow over 1,000 more people to access community detoxification services.

Dywedodd fy nghyd-Weinidog, Edwina Hart, yn ei datganiad cyllideb y byddai £3 miliwn ychwanegol ar gyfer y flwyddyn nesaf, £6 miliwn ar gyfer 2004-05 a £9 miliwn ar gyfer 2005-06. Bydd hyn yn cael effaith ar nifer y lleoedd a ddarperir. Bydd yr arian hwn yn caniatáu i dros 1,000 yn fwy o bobl gael defnyddio’r gwasanaethau dadwenwyno cymunedol.

Janice Gregory spoken in English p. 7

Janice Gregory siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 7

You mentioned the £18 million that the Assembly Government is providing. Are you aware that the rapid access points initiative in the Bridgend area will receive £462,500 from seized criminal assets to help speed-up the referral process for high-risk drug users by providing rapid appointments for assessments, access to treatment, and, where necessary, a substitute prescribing service? Will you join me in welcoming this boost for drug treatment that has been given by the UK Government, and will you reaffirm your commitment to working in partnership with colleagues at Westminster to tackle this serious issue that is affecting our communities?

Gwnaethoch sôn am y £18 miliwn y mae Llywodraeth y Cynulliad yn ei ddarparu. A ydych yn ymwybodol y bydd y fenter pwyntiau mynediad cyflym yn ardal Pen-y-bont ar Ogwr yn cael £462,500 o asedau troseddol a atafaelwyd i’w helpu i gyflymu’r broses gyfeirio ar gyfer defnyddwyr cyffuriau sydd mewn perygl mawr drwy ddarparu apwyntiadau cyflym ar gyfer asesiadau, mynediad i driniaeth a, lle y bo angen, gwasanaeth rhagnodi yn lle’r un presennol? A wnewch ymuno â mi i groesawu’r hwb hwn i driniaeth gyffuriau gan Lywodraeth y DU, ac a wnewch ailddatgan eich ymrwymiad i weithio mewn partneriaeth â’ch cyd-Weinidogion yn San Steffan i fynd i’r afael â’r mater difrifol hwn sy’n effeithio ar ein cymunedau?

Rhodri Morgan The First Minister spoken in English p. 7

Rhodri Morgan Y Prif Weinidog siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 7

I will, and I welcome the allocation of money that has come from the seized assets of those who have been involved in the drug trade. The rapid access points initiative, which has been brought in over the past few years, is an extremely important initiative. Those who live in communities badly affected by the presence of drug abusers and drug dealers will welcome the fact that those seized assets will bring some benefit in the form of drug treatment. Over the past few years, the Government in Westminster has made constructive use of new powers, which will be welcomed by everyone in the communities affected.

Gwnaf, a chroesawaf ddyrannu’r arian a ddaeth o asedau atafaeledig y rhai a fu’n ymwneud â’r fasnach gyffuriau. Mae’r fenter pwyntiau mynediad cyflym, a gyflwynwyd dros y blynyddoedd diwethaf, yn fenter bwysig dros ben. Bydd y rhai sy’n byw mewn cymunedau yr effeithiwyd yn ddrwg arnynt gan bresenoldeb rhai sy’n camddefnyddio cyffuriau a gwerthwyr cyffuriau yn croesawu’r ffaith y bydd yr asedau atafaeledig hynny’n dod â rhyw fudd ar ffurf triniaeth gyffuriau. Dros y blynyddoedd diwethaf, mae’r Llywodraeth yn San Steffan wedi defnyddio pwerau newydd yn adeiladol, a chroesewir hynny gan bawb yn y cymunedau yr effeithiwyd arnynt.

William Graham spoken in English p. 7

William Graham siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 7

I am sure that you will join me in congratulating the Gwent, South Wales and Dyfed-Powys police forces on the success of Operation Corolla. A major success of this operation was how it gained the co-operation of community leaders to tackle drug problems. What measures are being introduced to ensure that such co-operation will be extended?

Yr wyf yn siŵr y gwnewch ymuno â mi i longyfarch heddluoedd Gwent, De Cymru a Dyfed-Powys ar lwyddiant Ymgyrch Corolla. Un o lwyddiannau mawr yr ymgyrch hon oedd y modd y sicrhaodd gydweithrediad arweinwyr cymunedol i fynd i’r afael â phroblemau cyffuriau. Pa fesurau a gyflwynir i sicrhau parhad cydweithrediad o’r fath?

Rhodri Morgan The First Minister spoken in English p. 8

Rhodri Morgan Y Prif Weinidog siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 8

I cannot give an undertaking as to whether such co-operation will be extended or not, as we are not directly responsible for police operational matters. However, I commend the point that William rightly highlighted, namely, that it is essential that community leaders work in co-operation with the police if we are to get rid of the drug menace. The involvement of community leaders is important to the success, or otherwise, of police operations. It has to come from the communities themselves: they must be determined to get rid of drug dealers.

Ni allaf roi ymrwymiad ynghylch ymestyn cydweithrediad o’r fath, gan nad ydym yn uniongyrchol gyfrifol am faterion gweithredol yr heddlu. Er hynny, cymeradwyaf y pwynt y tynnodd William sylw ato’n briodol, sef ei bod yn hollbwysig i arweinwyr cymunedol weithio mewn cydweithrediad â’r heddlu os ydym i gael gwared ar felltith cyffuriau. Mae cyfraniad arweinwyr cymunedol yn bwysig i lwyddiant, neu ddiffyg llwyddiant, gweithrediadau’r heddlu. Rhaid i hyn ddod oddi wrth y cymunedau eu hunain: rhaid iddynt fod yn benderfynol o gael gwared ar werthwyr cyffuriau.

Geraint Davies spoken in English p. 8

Geraint Davies siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 8

A major weakness of the drug and alcohol services in Wales is their fragmented nature. Do you agree that providing a seam-free service, where detoxification, rehabilitation and community support run into each other without a gap, is an essential priority for any drug and alcohol service? Such a service would be accessible to people without them having to wait the inordinate amount of time they have to wait at present.

Un o brif wendidau’r gwasanaethau alcohol a chyffuriau yng Nghymru yw eu bod yn ddigyswllt. A ydych yn cytuno bod darparu gwasanaeth di-fwlch, lle y mae dadwenwyno, ailsefydlu a chymorth cymunedol yn rhedeg i’w gilydd, yn flaenoriaeth hanfodol i unrhyw wasanaeth alcohol a chyffuriau? Byddai gwasanaeth o’r fath ar gael i bobl heb iddynt orfod disgwyl gormod o lawer o amser fel y maent ar hyn o bryd.

Rhodri Morgan The First Minister spoken in English p. 8

Rhodri Morgan Y Prif Weinidog siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 8

I approve of your use of the phrase ‘seam-free’ rather than seamless, Geraint, but I am not sure whether it is applicable to how we now work in Wales. Assembly funding for drug and alcohol initiatives will be deployed across Wales through the 22 community safety partnerships, which share the same boundaries as the 22 local authorities. There are also the four newly-established Assembly regional strategic co-ordination teams. In light of those co-ordination teams being set up, perhaps you should examine your overly gloomy attitude.

Cymeradwyaf eich defnydd o’r ymadrodd ‘di-fwlch’ yn hytrach na di-dor, Geraint, ond nid wyf yn sicr a yw’n berthnasol i’n dull o weithio yng Nghymru’n awr. Bydd cyllid y Cynulliad ar gyfer mentrau alcohol a chyffuriau’n cael ei roi ar waith ledled Cymru drwy’r 22 partneriaeth diogelwch cymunedol, sy’n cydffinio â’r 22 awdurdod lleol. Yn ogystal â hynny ceir y pedwar tîm cydlynu strategol rhanbarthol sydd newydd eu sefydlu gan y Cynulliad. Yng ngolwg y ffaith bod y timau cydlynu hynny wedi’u sefydlu, efallai y dylech gwestiynu’r agwedd ordywyll sydd gennych.

Dafydd Elis-Thomas The Presiding Officer spoken in English p. 8

Dafydd Elis-Thomas Y Llywydd siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 8

Question 3 (OAQ20496) has been withdrawn.

Mae cwestiwn 3 (OAQ20496) wedi’i dynnu yn ôl.

Canolfannau y Cynulliad Dramor

Assembly Overseas Centres

Q4 Jocelyn Davies spoken in English p. 8

C4 Jocelyn Davies siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 8

How will the new Assembly overseas centres consolidate existing Assembly sponsored public bodies, overseas offices? (OAQ20484)

Sut fydd Canolfanau y Cynulliad Dramor yn atgyfnerthu swyddfeydd tramor Cyrff Cyhoeddus a Noddir gan y Cynulliad? (OAQ20484)

Rhodri Morgan The First Minister spoken in English p. 9

Rhodri Morgan Y Prif Weinidog siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 9

It is not a matter of bringing more than one ASPB into one office; it is one particular ASPB, namely, the Welsh Development Agency and one subsidiary of the Assembly Government, namely, WalesTrade International. The WDA has around 12 offices overseas, and many of those existed when the Conservatives were in power, just in case we get some over-enthusiastic jumping up and down on the Conservative rows. However, the idea behind the Wales international centres, with the exception of the Brussels office, is to make use of every sensible opportunity for the WDA and Wales Trade International to co-locate.

Nid yw’n fater o ddod â mwy nag un corff cyhoeddus a noddir gan y Cynulliad i un swyddfa; mae’n un corff penodol a noddir gan y Cynulliad, sef Awdurdod Datblygu Cymru ac un o is-gyrff Llywodraeth y Cynulliad, sef MasnachCymru Rhyngwladol. Mae gan y WDA tua 12 swyddfa dramor, ac yr oedd llawer ohonynt yn bod pan oedd y Ceidwadwyr mewn grym, rhag ofn inni gael unrhyw neidio gorfrwdfrydig yn rhesi’r Ceidwadwyr. Fodd bynnag, y bwriad o ran canolfannau rhyngwladol Cymru, heblaw am swyddfa Brwsel, yw defnyddio pob cyfle synhwyrol i’r WDA a Masnach Cymru Rhyngwladol ymsefydlu ar y cyd.

Jocelyn Davies spoken in English p. 9

Jocelyn Davies siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 9

In order to judge whether there is maximum co-operation, will you make a statement on the mechanisms that currently exist to prevent duplication of work and costs?

Er mwyn barnu a geir y cydweithredu mwyaf posibl, a wnewch ddatganiad ar y mecanweithiau a geir ar hyn o bryd i atal dyblygu gwaith a chostau?

Rhodri Morgan The First Minister spoken in English p. 9

Rhodri Morgan Y Prif Weinidog siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 9

It is not about duplication but about the opportunity for multi-skilling and for using information and communications technology to ensure rapid access to tourism information. We are not proposing to establish Wales Tourist Board offices overseas. We will continue to rely on the British Tourist Authority to encourage tourists from overseas to visit this country and to expand our share of that market. However, through better use of ICT, anybody going into a Wales international centre who wants information about holidaying in Wales, or potential students who are thinking of studying in our excellent universities, would be able to use those ICT links to get access to tourism or higher education information.

Nid yw’n ymwneud â dyblygu ond â’r cyfle i luosi sgiliau a defnyddio technoleg gwybodaeth a chyfathrebu i sicrhau y gellir cael gwybodaeth twristiaeth yn gyflym. Nid ydym yn bwriadu sefydlu swyddfeydd Bwrdd Croeso Cymru dramor. Byddwn yn parhau i ddibynnu ar yr Awdurdod Twristiaeth Prydeinig i annog twristiaid tramor i ymweld â’r wlad hon ac i gynyddu ein rhan o’r farchnad honno. Fodd bynnag, drwy ddefnyddio TGCh yn well, byddai rhywun sy’n mynd i un o ganolfannau rhyngwladol Cymru sydd am gael gwybodaeth ynghylch treulio gwyliau yng Nghymru, neu ddarpar fyfyrwyr sy’n ystyried astudio yn ein prifysgolion rhagorol, yn gallu defnyddio cysylltiadau TGCh i gael gwybodaeth twristiaeth neu addysg uwch.

Christine Chapman spoken in English p. 9

Christine Chapman siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 9

Do you agree that we must be ambitious—unlike the Conservatives—about promoting the interests of Wales abroad and market Wales in countries such as the US, where businesses, individuals and organisations still unfortunately know little about Wales, as the Economic Development Committee discovered on its recent visit there? Do you also agree that it would be beneficial to the interests of Wales for the Assembly to build strong partnerships with Welsh societies across the US, which are already promoting our interests and culture?

A ydych yn cytuno bod rhaid inni fod yn uchelgeisiol—yn wahanol i’r Ceidwadwyr—ynghylch hyrwyddo buddiannau Cymru dramor a marchnata Cymru mewn gwledydd fel yr Unol Daleithiau, lle nad yw busnesau, unigolion a chyrff yn gwybod fawr ddim am Gymru o hyd, fel y darganfu’r Pwyllgor Datblygu Economaidd ar ei ymweliad yno’n ddiweddar? A ydych hefyd yn cytuno y byddai’n fuddiol i Gymru pe byddai’r Cynulliad yn meithrin partneriaethau cryf â chymdeithasau Cymreig ledled yr Unol Daleithiau, sydd eisoes yn hyrwyddo ein buddiannau a’n diwylliant?

Rhodri Morgan The First Minister spoken in English p. 10

Rhodri Morgan Y Prif Weinidog siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 10

Yes. Since we are not proposing to have embassies, we are not proposing to have ambassadors. However, unpaid ambassadors among the Welsh societies and communities, and prominent Welsh people in business or show business and so on, in the US in particular, will be valuable to us and we intend to recruit them.

Ydwyf. Gan nad ydym yn bwriadu cael llysgenadaethau, nid ydym yn bwriadu cael llysgenhadon. Er hynny, bydd llysgenhadon di-dâl o blith y cymdeithasau a’r cymunedau Cymreig, a Chymry amlwg mewn busnes neu fyd adloniant ac yn y blaen, yn yr Unol Daleithiau’n enwedig, yn werthfawr i ni a bwriadwn eu recriwtio.

Nick Bourne The Leader of the Welsh Conservatives spoken in English p. 10

Nick Bourne Arweinydd Ceidwadwyr Cymru siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 10

I have no problem with the WDA representing Wales abroad; as you said, the Conservatives set up many of its offices. However, my problem is with your press office’s billing of them as mini-embassies in a recent press briefing. I could name the official concerned, but I will not. However, I would be happy to tell you privately and there is a contemporaneous note of the conversation. What is the purpose of these mini-embassies, as they were called, if they are simply going to concentrate on trade and have nothing to do with the WTB? Why are we reinventing the wheel? There are WDA offices in the US, Singapore, Australia and Japan, where you are setting up these centres. Is this not just another example of a monstrous waste of money, just like the new Assembly building? Given the bungling incompetence on that project, what guarantee do we have that this will not go the same way? Why has it not been brought to the Assembly or to Committee for decision and why can we not see a budget so that we know it will not be exceeded?

Nid oes gennyf wrthwynebiad i’r WDA gynrychioli Cymru dramor; fel y dywedasoch, y Ceidwadwyr a sefydlodd lawer o’i swyddfeydd. Fodd bynnag, y gwrthwynebiad sydd gennyf yw bod eich swyddfa i’r wasg wedi eu galw’n llysgenadaethau bach mewn briffiad diweddar i’r wasg. Gallwn enwi’r swyddog dan sylw, ond ni wnaf. Fodd bynnag, byddwn yn falch o ddweud wrthych yn breifat a gwnaed nodyn o’r sgwrs ar y pryd. Beth yw diben y llysgenadaethau bach hyn, fel y’u galwyd, os na fyddant ond yn canolbwyntio ar fasnach ac yn peidio ag ymwneud â Bwrdd Croeso Cymru o gwbl? Pam yr ydym yn ailddyfeisio’r olwyn? Mae swyddfeydd gan y WDA yn yr Unol Daleithiau, Singapôr, Awstralia a Siapan, lle’r ydych yn sefydlu’r canolfannau hyn. Onid yw hyn yn un enghraifft arall o wastraff gwarthus o arian, yn union fel adeilad newydd y Cynulliad? O ystyried y bwnglera ar y prosiect hwnnw, pa sicrwydd sydd gennym na fydd hyn yn mynd i’r un cyfeiriad? Pam na ddaethpwyd â hyn i’r Cynulliad neu i Bwyllgor am benderfyniad a pham na allwn weld cyllideb fel y cawn wybod na werir mwy na hynny?

Rhodri Morgan The First Minister spoken in English p. 10

Rhodri Morgan Y Prif Weinidog siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 10

The only use of the expression mini-embassies has been by you and your party, Nick. If you want to talk about mini-embassies, then you must cost them, state their benefits and say why you are in favour of them, or against them. I do not know what your policy is. At one time, you want to set them up as an Aunt Sally so that you can attack them, but since nobody else has mentioned them, I do not understand your obsession with this subject. It is quite simple. As I said in my answer to Jocelyn’s earlier question, where there are benefits from co-locating WalesTrade International and the WDA, we shall do so, with the sole exception of the Brussels office. That office is different—it is more concerned with political representation, lobbying and other matters in relation to European institutions, but it is not a mini-embassy. However, all of the others are simply sensible co-locations for economic development and business purposes. It is time that you and your colleagues, and your friends in the press, got over this obsession with this question.

Chi a’ch plaid, Nick, yw’r unig rai sydd wedi defnyddio’r ymadrodd llysgenadaethau bach. Os ydych am sôn am lysgenadaethau bach, rhaid ichi eu prisio, datgan eu manteision a dweud pam yr ydych o’u plaid, neu yn eu herbyn. Ni wn beth yw’ch polisi. Ar un adeg, yr oeddech am eu gwneud yn gocyn hitio, ond gan nad oes neb arall wedi sôn amdanynt, nid wyf yn deall eich obsesiwn â’r pwnc hwn. Mae’n gwbl syml, fel y dywedais yn fy ateb i gwestiwn cynharach Jocelyn, lle y ceir manteision drwy leoli MasnachCymru Rhyngwladol a’r WDA yn yr un lle, gwnawn hynny, ac eithrio yn achos swyddfa Brwsel. Mae’r swyddfa honno’n wahanol—mae’n ymwneud yn fwy â chynrychiolaeth wleidyddol, lobïo a materion eraill sy’n ymwneud â sefydliadau Ewropeaidd, ond nid yw’n llysgenhadaeth fach. Fodd bynnag, mannau i’w rhannu’n synhwyrol i ddibenion datblygu economaidd a busnes yw’r lleill i gyd, a dim arall. Mae’n bryd i chi a’ch cyd-Aelodau, a’ch ffrindiau yn y wasg, anghofio eich obsesiwn â’r mater hwn.

Polisi Ailgylchu

Recycling Policy

Q5 Val Lloyd spoken in English p. 11

C5 Val Lloyd siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 11

Will the Minister make a statement about the Welsh Assembly Government’s recycling policy? (OAQ20480)

A wnaiff y Gweinidog ddatganiad ar bolisi ailgylchu Llywodraeth Cynulliad Cymru? (OAQ20480)

Rhodri Morgan The First Minister spoken in English p. 11

Rhodri Morgan Y Prif Weinidog siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 11

You will be aware of the all-Wales waste forum that was established to monitor the progress of the national waste strategy for Wales, ‘Wise About Waste’. The strategy was debated in Plenary on 23 October 2001 and it was published in June 2002. You will be aware of the problem: the European average for recycling is 20 per cent, while our average is 7 per cent; we must improve that.

Byddwch yn ymwybodol o’r fforwm gwastraff i Gymru gyfan a sefydlwyd i gadw golwg ar y cynnydd ar y strategaeth gwastraff genedlaethol i Gymru, ‘Yn Gall gyda Gwastraff’. Bu dadl ar y strategaeth mewn Cyfarfod Llawn ar 23 Hydref 2001 ac fe’i cyhoeddwyd ym mis Mehefin 2002. Byddwch yn ymwybodol o’r broblem: cyfartaledd gwledydd Ewrop ar gyfer ailgylchu yw 20 y cant, tra bo ein cyfartaledd ni’n 7 y cant; rhaid inni wella ar hynny.

Val Lloyd spoken in English p. 11

Val Lloyd siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 11

We must consider our own recycling policy, as it is important for us to set an example. I know that there is a policy in place and that we are encouraged to reduce, reuse and recycle. What specific measures have been put in place in Cathays park and Cardiff bay, and what incentives are used, to encourage and help staff at all levels to reduce and recycle office waste?

Rhaid inni ystyried ein polisi ailgylchu ein hunain, gan ei bod yn bwysig inni fod yn esiampl. Gwn fod polisi ar waith a bod anogaeth inni leihau, ailddefnyddio ac ailgylchu. Pa fesurau penodol a roddwyd ar waith ym mharc Cathays a bae Caerdydd, a pha anogaethau a ddefnyddir, i gymell a helpu staff ar bob lefel i leihau ac ailgylchu gwastraff swyddfa?

Rhodri Morgan The First Minister spoken in English p. 11

Rhodri Morgan Y Prif Weinidog siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 11

All Assembly offices, including this building, are encouraged to set targets for recycling paper, toner cartridges, old Christmas cards, spent fluorescent light tubes and all other office by-products. My understanding is that, during the year 2000–01, the Assembly recycled some 134,000 kg of paper, 400 kg of old Christmas cards, 104,500 plastic cups, 11,500 drink cans, 855 toner cartridges and 1,400 spent fluorescent light tubes. That is our record. However, we have not yet found a way of recycling old Tory allegations about embassies.

Mae holl swyddfeydd y Cynulliad, gan gynnwys yr adeilad hwn, yn cael eu hannog i osod targedau ar gyfer ailgylchu papur, cetris arlliw, hen gardiau Nadolig, tiwbiau fflworolau hysb a phob is-gynnyrch swyddfa arall. Yr wyf yn deall bod y Cynulliad, yn ystod y flwyddyn 2000-01, wedi ailgylchu tua 134,000 cilogram o bapur, 400 cilogram o hen gardiau Nadolig, 104,500 o gwpanau plastig, 11,500 o duniau diod, 855 o getris arlliw a 1,400 o diwbiau fflworolau hysb. Dyna ein record. Fodd bynnag, nid ydym eto wedi dod o hyd i fodd i ailgylchu hen gyhuddiadau Torïaidd am lysgenadaethau.

Janet Davies spoken in English p. 12

Janet Davies siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 12

Last week, First Minister, in a supplementary to a question on the Johannesburg summit, I raised the issue of recycling. I asked whether your Government was taking action to meet European landfill directives. I have checked your answer, and you said that you could not meet all proposals that came along—or words to that effect; I am as close to the quotation as I can be. Could you give me any assurance this week that the Government is working to meet European landfill directives?

Yr wythnos diwethaf, Brif Weinidog, mewn cwestiwn atodol i gwestiwn am uwchgynhadledd Johannesburg, codais fater ailgylchu. Gofynnais a oedd eich Llywodraeth yn cymryd camau i fodloni cyfarwyddebau tirlenwi Ewropeaidd. Yr wyf wedi gwirio’ch ateb, a dywedasoch na allech fodloni’r holl gynigion a ddaw—neu eiriau i’r perwyl hwnnw; yr wyf yn dyfynnu mor fanwl ag y gallaf. A allwch roi unrhyw sicrwydd imi’r wythnos hon fod y Llywodraeth yn gweithio i fodloni cyfarwyddebau tirlenwi Ewropeaidd?

Rhodri Morgan The First Minister spoken in English p. 12

Rhodri Morgan Y Prif Weinidog siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 12

Yes. My earlier point that we recycle 7 per cent of our waste and that Europe recycles 20 per cent is the other side of the coin. We have so many old quarries, old coal mines and oxbow lakes on our winding rivers as they flow to the sea, around Cardiff and so forth, that we have found it remarkably easy to continue the use of landfill for longer than most other European countries—and, indeed, than England—but we have also, gradually, reached the end of the road with regard to landfill. That is the reason, however, why our recycling percentages, to date, have been so low. We must now grasp the nettle—that is the basis for the national waste strategy for Wales—and try to encourage local authorities to use the new landfill tax credit constructively. We must gradually move away from the easy option—that is landfill, with all the associated problems of leachate percolating into water courses and so on—and on to generating less waste, and recycling the waste that is generated.

Gallaf. Y pwynt a wneuthum yn gynharach, sef ein bod yn ailgylchu 7 y cant o’n gwastraff ac Ewrop yn ailgylchu 20 y cant, yw ochr arall y geiniog. Mae gennym gynifer o hen chwareli, hen lofeydd ac ystumllynnoedd ar ein hafonydd trofaus ar eu ffordd i’r môr, o gwmpas Caerdydd ac yn y blaen, fel ein bod wedi’i chael yn hynod hawdd parhau i ddefnyddio tirlenwi’n hwy na’r rhan fwyaf o wledydd Ewropeaidd eraill—ac, yn wir, na Lloegr—ond yr ydym ninnau, yn raddol, wedi cyrraedd y pen o ran tirlenwi. Dyna’r rheswm, fodd bynnag, pam y bu ein canrannau ailgylchu cyn ised hyd yn hyn. Rhaid i ni fynd ati yn awr—dyna sail y strategaeth gwastraff genedlaethol i Gymru—a cheisio annog awdurdodau lleol i ddefnyddio’r credyd treth tirlenwi newydd yn adeiladol. Rhaid inni symud yn raddol oddi wrth y dewis hawdd—sef tirlenwi, gyda’r holl broblemau cysylltiedig o drwytholchion yn diferu i gyrsiau dŵr ac yn y blaen—a thuag at gynhyrchu llai o wastraff, ac ailgylchu’r gwastraff a gynhyrchir.

David Davies spoken in English p. 12

David Davies siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 12

By the middle of 2006 as a result of the EU landfill directive, each one of the 40 million tyres currently disposed of each year in this country, will have to be recycled. However, between 2 million and 5 million second-hand tyres are imported into this country every year—according to statistics produced by the Assembly Library. Do you agree that this is unacceptable? These are low-value tyres and, because they are second hand, they must be disposed of quickly. Effectively, they are somebody else’s problem that is being passed on to us. Will you investigate why we are getting so many millions of tyres from other European Union countries? The cost of disposing of them ultimately falls on the British taxpayer. If you cannot tell me, then perhaps you might discuss the issue with the Secretary of State for Wales.

Erbyn canol 2006, o ganlyniad i gyfarwyddeb tirlenwi’r UE, bydd yn rhaid ailgylchu pob un o’r 40 miliwn o deiars a waredir bob blwyddyn yn y wlad hon ar hyn o bryd. Fodd bynnag, mewnforir rhwng 2 filiwn a 5 miliwn o deiars ail-law i’r wlad hon bob blwyddyn—yn ôl ystadegau a gynhyrchwyd gan Lyfrgell y Cynulliad. A ydych yn cytuno bod hynny’n annerbyniol? Teiars rhad yw’r rhain a, gan eu bod yn ail-law, rhaid cael gwared â hwy’n gyflym. I bob pwrpas, problem rhywun arall ydyw sy’n cael ei throsglwyddo i ni. A wnewch ymchwilio i ganfod pam yr ydym yn derbyn cynifer o filiynau o deiars o wledydd eraill yr Undeb Ewropeaidd? Mae’r gost o’u gwaredu yn dod i ran y trethdalwr Prydeinig yn y pen draw. Os na allwch ddweud wrthyf, efallai y gallech drafod y mater gydag Ysgrifennydd Gwladol Cymru.

Rhodri Morgan The First Minister spoken in English p. 13

Rhodri Morgan Y Prif Weinidog siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 13

Presumably, there is consumer demand for certain types of retread or recut old tyres in this country, which does not exist in Germany or other European countries with higher standards of consumer protection; I am not absolutely certain. However, if there is an intra-European trade focused on the UK, it probably shows that we have a minor difference in standards on depth of tread, and so on, which means that people are able to get £5 for a tyre in this country when they could not get anything for it elsewhere, as the tyres would not be legal. I do not know, but I will investigate the issue with the Secretary of State for Trade and Industry, the Secretary of State for Environment, Food and Rural Affairs and with my colleague, Sue Essex.

Gellir cymryd bod galw gan ddefnyddwyr am rai mathau o hen deiars sydd wedi’u hailwadnu neu’u haildorri yn y wlad hon, nad yw’n bod yn yr Almaen neu wledydd Ewropeaidd eraill sydd â safonau uwch i warchod defnyddwyr; nid wyf yn gwbl sicr. Fodd bynnag, os oes masnach o fewn Ewrop sy’n canolbwyntio ar y DU, mae’n debyg bod hynny’n dangos bod gennym wahaniaeth bach o ran y safonau ar gyfer trwch gwadn, ac ati, sy’n golygu bod pobl yn gallu cael £5 am deiar yn y wlad hon tra na allent gael dim amdano yn unman arall, gan na fyddai’r teiars yn gyfreithlon. Nid wyf yn gwybod, ond ymchwiliaf i’r mater gyda’r Ysgrifennydd Gwladol dros Fasnach a Diwydiant, yr Ysgrifennydd Gwladol dros yr Amgylchedd, Bwyd a Materion Gwledig a chyda’m cyd-Weinidog, Sue Essex.

Cefnogi Hen Bobl a Phobl Fregus Eraill

Supporting Senior Citizens and Other Vunerable People

Q6 Ann Jones spoken in English p. 13

C6 Ann Jones siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 13

Will the Minister make a statement on policies aimed at supporting senior citizens and other vulnerable people over the winter months? (OAQ20476)

A wnaiff y Gweinidog ddatganiad ar y polisïau sydd wedi’u hanelu i gefnogi hen bobl a phobl fregus eraill dros y gaeaf? (OAQ20476)

Rhodri Morgan The First Minister spoken in English p. 13

Rhodri Morgan Y Prif Weinidog siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 13

We have a whole raft of policies that pertain to supporting senior citizens and other vulnerable people over the winter months. One such scheme—that has not as yet received enough attention—is the home energy efficiency scheme, which provides a grant for making homes warmer, better insulated and thus more energy efficient. The grant focuses on households with the greatest health risks, such as those in which older people live. The budget for the current year is just over £11 million, and the target is to install 3,100 central heating systems and to implement 16,000 insulation measures. In addition to the flu jabs programme and the activity on the part of the health service, this ensures that full attention is being given to supporting senior citizens and other vulnerable people. In Britain, unlike most northern European countries, the death rate among vulnerable people is higher in the winter months than it is in the summer months. The death rate in Sweden, where it is much colder, is exactly the same in winter as it is in summer; a lesson can be learnt from that. We must ensure that there are no excess winter deaths among the elderly and other vulnerable groups.

Mae gennym doreth o bolisïau sy’n ymwneud â chefnogi hen bobl a phobl eraill sy’n agored i niwed dros fisoedd y gaeaf. Un cynllun o’r fath—na roddwyd digon o sylw iddo eto—yw’r cynllun effeithlonrwydd ynni cartref, sy’n darparu grant i wneud cartrefi’n fwy cynnes a’u hinswleiddio’n well gan beri, drwy hynny, eu bod yn fwy effeithlon o ran ynni. Mae’r grant yn canolbwyntio ar gartrefi sydd â’r risgiau iechyd mwyaf, fel y rhai lle y mae pobl hŷn yn byw. Mae’r gyllideb ar gyfer y flwyddyn gyfredol ychydig dros £11 miliwn, a’r targed yw gosod 3,100 o systemau gwresogi canolog a rhoi 16,000 o fesurau inswleiddio ar waith. Yn ogystal â’r rhaglen brechu rhag y ffliw a’r gweithgaredd ar ran y gwasanaeth iechyd, mae hyn yn sicrhau y rhoddir pob sylw i gynorthwyo’r henoed ac eraill sy’n agored i niwed. Ym Mhrydain, yn wahanol i’r rhan fwyaf o wledydd gogledd Ewrop, mae’r gyfradd marwolaethau ymysg pobl sy’n agored i niwed yn uwch ym misoedd y gaeaf nag ydyw ym misoedd yr haf. Mae’r gyfradd marwolaethau yn Sweden, gwlad oerach o lawer, yn union yr un fath yn y gaeaf ag ydyw yn yr haf; gellir dysgu gwers oddi wrth hynny. Rhaid inni sicrhau nad oes gormod o farwolaethau yn y gaeaf ymysg yr henoed a grwpiau eraill sy’n agored i niwed.

Ann Jones spoken in English p. 14

Ann Jones siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 14

I attended a recent roadshow in my constituency called ‘Keep Well This Winter’. I was impressed by the number of agencies that were present to give advice to elderly constituents on how to keep well and warm this winter. Such campaigns help older people to take advantage of the many schemes available to them and they complement initiatives such as the £200 winter fuel payment allowance introduced by the Westminster Government and the Assembly’s home energy efficiency scheme. It is imperative that the take-up of those benefits and schemes continues to be highlighted. Can you assure me that such public information campaigns will continue and will be encouraged, to ensure that those who can receive benefits do so?

Yn ddiweddar, mynychais sioe deithiol yn fy etholaeth o’r enw ‘Cadwch yn Iach y Gaeaf Hwn’. Gwnaed argraff arnaf gan nifer yr asiantaethau a oedd yn bresennol i roi cyngor i etholwyr oedrannus ar sut i gadw’n iach ac yn gynnes y gaeaf hwn. Mae ymgyrchoedd o’r fath yn helpu pobl hŷn i fanteisio ar y nifer fawr o gynlluniau sydd ar gael iddynt ac maent yn ategu mentrau fel y lwfans tâl tanwydd gaeaf o £200 a gyflwynwyd gan Lywodraeth San Steffan a chynllun effeithlonrwydd ynni cartref y Cynulliad. Mae’n hollbwysig parhau i roi pwys ar annog pobl i fanteisio ar y budd-daliadau a’r cynlluniau hynny. A allwch fy sicrhau y bydd ymgyrchoedd hysbysrwydd cyhoeddus o’r fath yn parhau ac yn cael eu hannog, i sicrhau bod y rhai a all dderbyn budd-daliadau’n gwneud hynny?

Rhodri Morgan The First Minister spoken in English p. 14

Rhodri Morgan Y Prif Weinidog siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 14

The themes of the ‘Keep Well this Winter’ campaign are keep well, keep warm and keep safe; all three go together. It would be a major help if people could avoid falling over on ice, steps or pavements that are not well-paved. In addition, they should keep well by getting a flu jab, eating a balanced diet and taking appropriate exercise. Finally, they should keep warm by taking full advantage of the £200 tax-free winter fuel allowance and the home heating and insulation grants that are now available from the Assembly Government.

Themâu’r ymgyrch ‘Cadwch yn Iach y Gaeaf Hwn’ yw cadwch yn iach, cadwch yn gynnes a byddwch yn ofalus; mae’r tri pheth yn cyd-fynd. Byddai o gymorth mawr os gallai pobl osgoi disgyn ar rew, grisiau neu balmentydd sydd heb eu palmentu’n dda. Yn ogystal â hynny, dylent gadw’n iach drwy gael eu brechu rhag y ffliw, bwyta deiet cytbwys a gwneud ymarfer corff priodol. Yn olaf, dylent gadw’n gynnes drwy fanteisio’n llawn ar y lwfans tanwydd gaeaf di-dreth o £200 a’r grantiau gwresogi ac inswleiddio cartref sydd ar gael yn awr gan Lywodraeth y Cynulliad.

David Lloyd spoken in English p. 14

David Lloyd siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 14

Is the First Minister confident that the safety of our elderly and vulnerable people will not be compromised this winter as a result of the firefighters’ strike?

A yw’r Prif Weinidog yn ffyddiog na fydd diogelwch ein henoed a phobl sy’n agored i niwed yn cael ei beryglu y gaeaf hwn o ganlyniad i streic y diffoddwyr tân?

Rhodri Morgan The First Minister spoken in English p. 15

Rhodri Morgan Y Prif Weinidog siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 15

It is interesting to note that, so far, no evidence has emerged to show that the best efforts of the Green and Red Goddesses are not as good as the regular service provided by the full-time and retained firefighters. However, the likelihood is that such evidence will eventually emerge. There is no way that we can pretend that the alternative services provided by the three armed forces during the Fire Brigades Union strike can be as good as those on which we normally rely. So far, there does not appear to be an example in Wales, or anywhere else in the UK, of a death being attributable to the firefighters’ strike. Obviously, we all want that to continue to be the case for as long as the strike lasts. Therefore, we would like the strike to be brought to an early end with a proper settlement.

Diddorol yw nodi nad oes tystiolaeth, hyd yn hyn, i ddangos nad yw ymdrechion gorau’r Duwiesau Gwyrdd a Choch gystal â’r gwasanaeth arferol a ddarperir gan y diffoddwyr tân llawn amser a’r rhai wrth gefn. Fodd bynnag, mae’n debygol y ceir tystiolaeth o’r fath yn y pen draw. Ni allwn gymryd arnom y gall y gwasanaethau amgen a ddarperir gan y tri llu arfog yn ystod streic Undeb y Brigadau Tân fod cystal â’r rhai yr ydym yn dibynnu arnynt fel arfer. Hyd yn hyn, nid ymddengys fod enghraifft yng Nghymru, nag yn unman arall yn y DU, o farwolaeth y gellir ei phriodoli i streic y diffoddwyr tân. Wrth gwrs, yr ydym am i’r sefyllfa barhau felly cyhyd ag y bydd y streic yn parhau. Gan hynny, hoffem weld y streic yn dod i ben yn fuan gyda setliad priodol.

Nick Bourne spoken in English p. 15

Nick Bourne siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 15

Do you agree with the Westminster Government’s plans, as outlined in the Queen’s Speech, to introduce fines for local authorities that cannot provide accommodation for patients discharged from hospital? Alternatively, do you agree with me that those fines represent a stealth tax, introduced by the Labour Government to hide the truth about its devastating policy on social care? Thousands of care beds have been lost and there has been a fall in the registration of new homes, which has had a devastating knock-on effect on waiting lists in the national heath service; all of that is Labour’s fault.

A ydych yn cytuno â chynlluniau Llywodraeth San Steffan, fel y’u hamlinellwyd yn Araith y Frenhines, i gyflwyno dirwyon ar gyfer awdurdodau lleol na allant ddarparu llety ar gyfer cleifion a ryddheir o’r ysbyty? Fel arall, a ydych yn cytuno â mi fod y dirwyon hynny’n dreth lechwraidd, a gyflwynwyd gan y Llywodraeth Lafur i gelu’r gwir am ei pholisi dinistriol ar ofal cymdeithasol? Collwyd miloedd o welyau gofal a bu gostyngiad yn nifer y cartrefi newydd a gofrestrwyd, a gafodd sgîl-effaith ddifrifol ar restrau aros yn y gwasanaeth iechyd gwladol; bai Llafur yw hynny i gyd.

Rhodri Morgan The First Minister spoken in English p. 15

Rhodri Morgan Y Prif Weinidog siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 15

Your party gets the Nobel prize for beds lost in the NHS; if I were you, I would not go on too much about that issue. We have no proposals for penalising local authorities that fail to provide sufficient early discharge facilities. We are, however, providing the funding, which has increased from £5 million last year to £12 million this year, for so-called delayed transfers of care, which is bed-blocking under another name. We believe that more than doubling the sum of money available to local authorities should solve the problem of delayed transfers of care. However, there is always a problem at the end of the financial year, usually, when local authorities are unsure of how much money is left in their budgets. We hope that they will use that additional £12 million constructively to solve the problem.

Eich plaid chi sy’n cael y wobr Nobel am nifer y gwelyau a gollwyd yn y GIG; pe byddwn i yn eich lle chi, ni fyddwn yn mynd ymlaen ormod am hynny. Nid oes gennym unrhyw gynigion i gosbi awdurdodau lleol am fethu â darparu digon o gyfleusterau ar gyfer y rhai a ryddheir yn gynnar o’r ysbyty. Fodd bynnag, yr ydym yn darparu’r cyllid, sydd wedi cynyddu o £5 miliwn y llynedd i £12 miliwn eleni, ar gyfer yr hyn a elwir yn oedi wrth drosglwyddo gofal, neu flocio gwelyau. Credwn y dylai mwy na dyblu’r swm o arian sydd ar gael i awdurdodau lleol ddatrys y broblem o oedi wrth drosglwyddo gofal. Er hynny, mae problem bob amser, ar ddiwedd y flwyddyn ariannol fel arfer, pan fo awdurdodau lleol yn ansicr ynghylch faint o arian sy’n weddill yn eu cyllidebau. Gobeithiwn y byddant yn defnyddio’r £12 miliwn ychwanegol hwnnw’n adeiladol i ddatrys y broblem.

Cynllun Pensiwn Allied Steel and Wire

Allied Steel and Wire Pension Scheme

Q7 Owen John Thomas spoken in English p. 16

C7 Owen John Thomas siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 16

What discussions has the First Minister held recently about the wind-up of the Allied Steel and Wire pension scheme? (OAQ20485)

Pa drafodaethau y mae’r Prif Weinidog wedi eu cael yn ddiweddar ynghylch dod â chynllun pensiwn Allied Steel and Wire i ben? (OAQ20485)

Rhodri Morgan The First Minister spoken in English p. 16

Rhodri Morgan Y Prif Weinidog siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 16

I have held many such discussions—you were present at some of them. I have chaired meetings with Allied Steel and Wire’s receivers, Cardiff AMs and MPs and trade unions, in which we discussed all aspects of the effects of the closure, including the consequences on the pension fund and the deficiency in that fund.

Cefais sawl trafodaeth o’r fath—yr oeddech yn bresennol mewn rhai ohonynt. Yr wyf wedi cadeirio cyfarfodydd gyda derbynwyr Allied Steel and Wire, Aelodau Cynulliad ac Aelodau Seneddol Caerdydd ac undebau llafur, pan fu inni drafod pob agwedd ar effeithiau’r cau, gan gynnwys yr effeithiau ar y gronfa bensiwn a’r diffyg yn y gronfa honno.

Owen John Thomas spoken in English p. 16

Owen John Thomas siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 16

A recent disclosure by Plaid Cymru revealed that successive UK Governments have failed to implement European directive 80/987/EEC, by not making arrangements that would guarantee company pension trusts affected by insolvency. That emphasises the need for the National Assembly to form a view on important issues, even though they may not be devolved matters. As Wales’s First Minister, will you put the interests of Wales first by pressing the UK Government, regardless of its political identity, to fulfil its legal obligation by making arrangements guaranteeing full entitlements to pensions from company pension trusts, such as Allied Steel and Wire’s?

Mae datguddiad diweddar gan Blaid Cymru wedi dangos bod un Llywodraeth y DU ar ôl y llall wedi methu â gweithredu cyfarwyddeb Ewropeaidd 80/987/EEC, drwy beidio â gwneud trefniadau a fyddai’n gwarantu ymddiriedolaethau pensiwn cwmni a effeithiwyd gan fethdaliad. Mae hynny’n pwysleisio’r angen i’r Cynulliad Cenedlaethol ffurfio barn ar faterion pwysig, er nad ydynt o bosibl yn faterion a ddatganolwyd. Fel Prif Weinidog Cymru, a wnewch roi buddiannau Cymru’n gyntaf drwy bwyso ar Lywodraeth y DU, beth bynnag fo’i lliw gwleidyddol, i gyflawni ei hymrwymiad cyfreithiol drwy wneud trefniadau i warantu hawliadau llawn ar bensiynau o ymddiriedolaethau pensiwn cwmni, fel un Allied Steel and Wire?

Rhodri Morgan The First Minister spoken in English p. 16

Rhodri Morgan Y Prif Weinidog siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 16

Your use of the word ‘disclosure’ is wrong; one of Plaid Cymru’s Members of Parliament made an allegation. Even in his words, it would need to be tested by the courts to see whether there is any substance to it.

Mae’ch defnydd o’r gair ‘datguddiad’ yn anghywir; un o Aelodau Seneddol Plaid Cymru a wnaeth gyhuddiad. Fel y dywedodd ef hyd yn oed, byddai angen ei brofi gan y llysoedd i ganfod a oes unrhyw sylwedd iddo.

The Department for Work and Pensions takes a different view. It says that, in 1995, the European Commission assured it in writing that it was in compliance with the 1980 insolvency directive. In 2000, the European Commission decided to revisit the directive and a new directive was issued two months ago. It gave all member states until 2005 to comply with it. The Department for Work and Pensions remains confident that, even before the revised directive was issued at the end of September 2002, it was in compliance with the insolvency directive, including article 8. It is also confident that it is already in compliance with the new revised directive—we do not need to wait until 2005 to comply.

Mae barn yr Adran Gwaith a Phensiynau’n wahanol. Dywed fod y Comisiwn Ewropeaidd wedi rhoi sicrwydd iddi mewn ysgrifen, yn 1995, ei bod yn cydymffurfio â chyfarwyddeb methdaliad 1980. Yn 2000, penderfynodd y Comisiwn Ewropeaidd ailystyried y gyfarwyddeb a chyhoeddwyd cyfarwyddeb newydd ddau fis yn ôl. Rhoddodd hyd 2005 i’r holl aelod wladwriaethau gydymffurfio â hi. Mae’r Adran Gwaith a Phensiynau’n ffyddiog o hyd, fel yr oedd cyn cyhoeddi’r gyfarwyddeb ddiwygiedig ddiwedd Medi 2002 hyd yn oed, ei bod yn cydymffurfio â’r gyfarwyddeb methdaliad, gan gynnwys erthygl 8. Mae hefyd yn ffyddiog ei bod eisoes yn cydymffurfio â’r gyfarwyddeb ddiwygiedig newydd—nid oes rhaid inni ddisgwyl tan 2005 i gydymffurfio.

If there is a test case, I cannot predict its outcome—neither can you or your Plaid Cymru parliamentary colleague. We should not speculate on that and neither should we raise people’s hopes unduly. The Department for Work and Pensions is confident that it is already in compliance with the revised directive, even though it has another three years to comply.

Os bydd achos prawf, ni allaf broffwydo ei ganlyniad—ac ni allwch chi na’ch cyd-aelod o Blaid Cymru yn y Senedd wneud hynny ychwaith. Ni ddylem ddyfalu ynghylch hynny ac ni ddylem godi gobeithion pobl yn ormodol ychwaith. Mae’r Adran Gwaith a Phensiynau’n ffyddiog ei bod eisoes yn cydymffurfio â’r gyfarwyddeb ddiwygiedig, er bod ganddi dair blynedd arall i gydymffurfio.

Adolygiadau o Awdurdodau Lleol

Reviews of Local Authorities

Q8 Richard Edwards spoken in English p. 17

C8 Richard Edwards siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 17

What mechanisms are in place to ensure that local authorities in Wales respond effectively to independent reviews conducted into their service delivery? (OAQ20493)

Pa drefniadau sydd i’w cael i sicrhau bod awdurdodau lleol yng Nghymru yn ymateb yn effeithiol i adolygiadau annibynnol o’r gwasanaethau a ddarperir ganddynt? (OAQ20493)

Rhodri Morgan The First Minister spoken in English p. 17

Rhodri Morgan Y Prif Weinidog siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 17

If you are referring to independent reviews of social services departments in local authorities, Richard, then progress is monitored through the Social Services Inspectorate for Wales and the district auditor. After any joint review, the council must prepare an action plan that must be approved by the joint review team, namely the Audit Commission and the SSIW. There is then a formal handover meeting to agree how progress will be monitored.

Os ydych yn cyfeirio at adolygiadau annibynnol o adrannau gwasanaethau cymdeithasol mewn awdurdodau lleol, Richard, caiff y cynnydd ei fonitro drwy Arolygiaeth Gwasanaethau Cymdeithasol Cymru a’r archwilydd dosbarth. Ar ôl unrhyw adolygiad ar y cyd, rhaid i’r cyngor baratoi cynllun gweithredu y mae’n rhaid iddo gael ei gymeradwyo gan dîm yr adolygiad ar y cyd, sef y Comisiwn Archwilio ac Arolygiaeth Gwasanaethau Cymdeithasol Cymru. Wedyn bydd cyfarfod trosglwyddo ffurfiol i gytuno ar y dull o fonitro cynnydd.

Richard Edwards spoken in English p. 18

Richard Edwards siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 18

You must be psychic, First Minister. Are you aware that the recent joint review report into Pembrokeshire County Council’s dismal social services department called for an action plan fully involving users, carers, front-line staff and the voluntary sector, yet, on the very day that the report was published—before most interested persons were even aware of its contents—the council leader grandly declared that an action plan was already up and running? First Minister, given the political culture in the Kremlin on the Cleddau, where even Joe Stalin would be labelled a dangerous liberal let alone a local AM variously dismissed as an intemperate ranter and a loose cannon—they have not quite got around to questioning my parentage yet; not in public, anyway—what assurance can you give to the people of Pembrokeshire, particularly to the most vulnerable, that the council’s action plan will not be a contemptuous token gesture?

Rhaid eich bod yn seicig, Brif Weinidog. A ydych yn ymwybodol bod adroddiad yr adolygiad ar y cyd diweddar o adran gwasanaethau cymdeithasol alaethus Cyngor Sir Penfro wedi galw am gynllun gweithredu a fyddai’n cynnwys defnyddwyr, gofalwyr, staff rheng flaen a’r sector gwirfoddol, ac eto, ar yr union ddiwrnod y cyhoeddwyd yr adroddiad—cyn bod y rhan fwyaf o’r rhai cysylltiedig yn gwybod am ei gynnwys hyd yn oed—fod arweinydd y cyngor wedi datgan yn fawreddog bod cynllun gweithredu ar waith eisoes? Brif Weinidog, o ystyried y diwylliant gwleidyddol yn y Cremlin ar afon Cleddau, lle y câi hyd yn oed Jo Stalin ei alw’n rhyddfrydwr peryglus heb sôn am AC lleol a wfftiwyd a’i alw gan wahanol rai’n frygowthwr anghymedrol ac yn un byrbwyll ei dafod—nid ydynt wedi dechrau bwrw amheuaeth ar fy nghefndir teuluol eto; nid yn gyhoeddus, beth bynnag—pa sicrwydd y gallwch ei roi i bobl sir Benfro, yn enwedig y rhai mwyaf agored i niwed, na fydd cynllun gweithredu’r cyngor yn arwydd symbolaidd dirmygus?

Rhodri Morgan The First Minister spoken in English p. 18

Rhodri Morgan Y Prif Weinidog siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 18

Richard, I wish you would come off the fence and tell us what you really think of Pembrokeshire County Council. [Laughter.]

Richard, byddai’n dda gennyf pe deuech i lawr o ben y clawdd a dweud wrthym beth yr ydych yn ei feddwl o Gyngor Sir Penfro mewn gwirionedd. [Chwerthin.]

Let us be clear about the joint review’s findings; we must be fair to Pembrokeshire County Council. It was not a good outcome, but it was by no means the worst. The social services departments of four authorities in Wales received worse joint review report outcomes. Torfaen and Caerphilly county borough councils were put in the category of ‘not serving people well/uncertain prospects’ some time ago. Without saying anything against Caerphilly council, I am aware that Torfaen County Borough Council has since been engaged in a massive turn-around. ‘Not serving people well/poor prospects’ covers the Vale of Glamorgan and Cardiff councils—to make it clear that I am not making political comments. Rhondda Cynon Taf, Ceredigion, Merthyr Tydfil, Newport, and Conwy councils are in the same category as Pembrokeshire, namely, ‘serving some people well/uncertain prospects’. That is not good, but it could be worse. This is a fairly newly-published joint review, and I trust that the review mechanism and the follow-up mechanism will be effective.

Gadewch inni fod yn glir ynghylch canfyddiadau’r adolygiad ar y cyd; rhaid inni fod yn deg â Chyngor Sir Penfro. Nid oedd yn ganlyniad da, ond nid hwnnw oedd y gwaethaf o bell ffordd. Mae adrannau gwasanaethau cymdeithasol pedwar awdurdod yng Nghymru wedi cael canlyniadau gwaeth mewn adroddiadau adolygiad ar y cyd. Cafodd cynghorau bwrdeistref sirol Tor-faen a Chaerffili eu rhoi yn y categori ‘ddim yn gwasanaethu pobl yn dda/rhagolygon ansicr’ beth amser yn ôl. Heb ddweud dim yn erbyn cyngor Caerffili, yr wyf yn ymwybodol y bu trawsnewidiad anferthol yng Nghyngor Bwrdeistref Sirol Tor-faen ers hynny. Mae ‘ddim yn gwasanaethu pobl yn dda/rhagolygon ansicr’ yn cynnwys cynghorau Bro Morgannwg a Chaerdydd—i roi ar ddeall nad wyf yn gwneud sylwadau gwleidyddol. Mae cynghorau Rhondda Cynon Taf, Ceredigion, Merthyr Tudful, Casnewydd, a Chonwy yn yr un categori â sir Benfro, sef ‘yn gwasanaethu rhai pobl yn dda/rhagolygon ansicr’. Nid yw hynny’n dda, ond gallai fod yn waeth. Adolygiad ar y cyd a gyhoeddwyd yn weddol ddiweddar yw hwn, a hyderaf y bydd y mecanwaith adolygu a’r mecanwaith dilynol yn effeithiol.

Janet Ryder spoken in English p. 19

Janet Ryder siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 19

You have said that independent reviews are similar to district audit reports in that they often raise further questions. For example, the Flintshire district audit report raises many further questions. Not least of these are questions about the involvement of Government at all levels in the report and in consequent related actions. Do you agree that in such cases, there needs to be recourse to a public inquiry or judicial review so that we can be satisfied that all aspects of the matters raised have been fully investigated?

Yr ydych wedi dweud bod adolygiadau annibynnol yn debyg i adroddiadau archwiliad dosbarth i’r graddau eu bod yn aml yn codi cwestiynau pellach. Er enghraifft, mae adroddiad archwiliad dosbarth sir y Fflint yn codi llawer o gwestiynau pellach. Ymhlith y pwysicaf o’r rhain y mae cwestiynau am y rhan a gymer Llywodraeth ar bob lefel yn yr adroddiad ac mewn camau cysylltiedig o ganlyniad iddo. A gytunwch fod angen troi at ymchwiliad cyhoeddus neu adolygiad barnwrol, mewn achosion o’r fath, fel y gallwn fod yn fodlon bod pob agwedd ar y materion a godwyd wedi’i harchwilio’n llawn?

Rhodri Morgan The First Minister spoken in English p. 19

Rhodri Morgan Y Prif Weinidog siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 19

I do not know of allegations that the district auditor failed to fully investigate the matters to which you refer in Flintshire. I am aware that a tribunal will be held shortly, therefore it would be best for us all not to make any unwise comments. I will not say more than that. However, if you wish to raise any matters with me, or with Edwina Hart as the Minister with responsibility for local government, which would not affect the outcome of any tribunal proceedings, then you are free to do so.

Ni wn am unrhyw honiadau bod yr archwilydd dosbarth wedi methu ag ymchwilio’n llawn i’r materion y cyfeiriwch atynt yn sir y Fflint. Yr wyf yn ymwybodol y bydd tribiwnlys yn cael ei gynnal cyn hir, felly byddai’n well inni oll beidio â gwneud unrhyw sylwadau annoeth. Ni ddywedaf fwy na hynny. Fodd bynnag, os dymunwch godi unrhyw faterion gyda mi, neu gydag Edwina Hart fel y Gweinidog sydd â chyfrifoldeb dros lywodraeth leol, na fyddent yn effeithio ar ganlyniad unrhyw achos tribiwnlys, yr ydych yn rhydd i wneud hynny.

Jonathan Morgan spoken in English p. 19

Jonathan Morgan siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 19

You will be aware that this year’s inspection by Estyn into Cardiff County Council’s special educational needs provision for students in the city indicated that support for children with special educational needs was poor, and that the prospects for improvement were uncertain. Bearing in mind this rather damning indictment of Cardiff’s provision for children with special educational needs, how does the Government intend to monitor Cardiff’s performance in the future?

Byddwch yn ymwybodol bod yr arolygiad eleni gan Estyn o ddarpariaeth anghenion addysgol arbennig Cyngor Sir Caerdydd ar gyfer myfyrwyr yn y ddinas wedi dangos bod y cymorth i blant ag anghenion addysgol arbennig yn wael, a bod y rhagolygon ar gyfer gwella’n ansicr. Yng ngolwg y cyhuddiad braidd yn ddamniol hwn yn erbyn darpariaeth Caerdydd ar gyfer plant ag anghenion addysgol arbennig, sut y mae’r Llywodraeth yn bwriadu monitro perfformiad Caerdydd yn y dyfodol?

Rhodri Morgan The First Minister spoken in English p. 19

Rhodri Morgan Y Prif Weinidog siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 19

I do not have the information to hand, although I remember the publication of the report noting the poor and uncertain prospects verdict with regard to SEN provision in Cardiff. This is a technical point and I must be sure that we give you the latest information. Therefore, I will consult with the Minister for Education and Lifelong Learning, and will write to you.

Nid yw’r wybodaeth gennyf wrth law, er fy mod yn cofio cyhoeddi’r adroddiad a nododd y dyfarniad bod y ddarpariaeth anghenion addysgol arbennig yng Nghaerdydd yn wael a bod iddi ragolygon ansicr. Pwynt technegol yw hwn a rhaid imi sicrhau ein bod yn rhoi’r wybodaeth ddiweddaraf i chi. Felly, byddaf yn ymgynghori â’r Gweinidog dros Addysg a Dysgu Gydol Oes, ac yn ysgrifennu atoch.

Canllawiau i Weinidogion

Guidance to Ministers

C9 Dafydd Wigley siaradwyd yn Gymraeg t. 20

Q9 Dafydd Wigley spoken in Welsh p. 20

A yw’r Prif Weinidog wedi cyhoeddi unrhyw ganllawiau diweddar i’w Gabinet ynghylch arfer eu swyddogaethau fel Gweinidogion y Cabinet? (OAQ20477)

Has the First Minister issued any recent guidance to his Cabinet regarding the exercise of their functions as Cabinet Ministers? (OAQ20477)

Rhodri Morgan Y Prif Weinidog siaradwyd yn Gymraeg t. 20

Rhodri Morgan The First Minister spoken in Welsh p. 20

Mae’r Cod i’r Gweinidogion yn parhau i ddarparu canllawiau i Weinidogion ynghylch arfer eu swyddogaethau.

The Ministerial Code continues to provide guidance to Ministers on the exercise of their functions.

Dafydd Wigley siaradwyd yn Gymraeg t. 20

Dafydd Wigley spoken in Welsh p. 20

A wnewch ailystyried y pwynt hwn, yn arbennig yng nghyd-destun y cyfnod rhwng y flwyddyn newydd a’r etholiad ym mis Mai? Yn benodol, a wnewch atgoffa aelodau’r Cabinet i beidio â dod â darpar ymgeiswyr eu plaid i gyfarfodydd y maent yn eu mynychu, nid fel unigolion, ond yn rhinwedd eu haelodaeth o’r Cabinet? A wnewch eu hatgoffa hefyd i beidio â gwyro penderfyniadau, na dylanwadu ar benderfyniadau, ar ddatblygiadau posibl yn eu hetholaethau hwy, neu etholaethau sensitif eraill, ar draul etholaethau cyfagos?

Will you reconsider this point, especially in the conext of the period between the new year and May’s election? Specifically, will you remind Cabinet members not to bring their party’s prospective candidates to meetings that they attend, not as individuals, but by virtue of their membership of the Cabinet? Will you also remind them not to skew or influence decisions on possible developments in their constituencies, or other sensitive constituencies, at the expense of nearby constituencies?

Rhodri Morgan Y Prif Weinidog siaradwyd yn Gymraeg t. 20

Rhodri Morgan The First Minister spoken in Welsh p. 20

Nid wyf yn ymwybodol o unrhyw esiamplau o ymddygiad neu ymweliadau o’r fath. Os oes gennych esiamplau, byddai’n well pe baech yn ysgrifennu ataf.

I am not aware of any examples of that kind of behaviour or any such visits. If you have examples, it would be better if you wrote to me.

Kirsty Williams spoken in English p. 20

Kirsty Williams siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 20

In exercising your responsibilities for relations between Wales and the rest of the United Kingdom, what discussions have you had with colleagues in the Westminster Government on its proposals to reform mental health legislation? There is great disquiet in Wales among professionals, service users and carers about the draft Mental Health Bill, which is in stark contrast to the support that the adult mental health strategy, pursued by the Welsh Assembly Government, received from those groups.

Wrth arfer eich cyfrifoldebau dros gysylltiadau rhwng Cymru a gweddill y Deyrnas Unedig, pa drafodaethau a gawsoch â’ch cyd-Weinidogion yn Llywodraeth San Steffan ar ei chynigion i ddiwygio deddfwriaeth iechyd meddwl? Mae anesmwythyd mawr yng Nghymru ymysg gweithwyr proffesiynol, defnyddwyr gwasanaethau a gofalwyr ynghylch y Mesur Iechyd Meddwl drafft, sydd yn gwrthgyferbynnu’n llwyr â’r gefnogaeth gan y grwpiau hynny i’r strategaeth iechyd meddwl oedolion, a ddilynir gan Lywodraeth Cynulliad Cymru.

Rhodri Morgan The First Minister spoken in English p. 21

Rhodri Morgan Y Prif Weinidog siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 21

I am not sure to which measure you refer. Are you referring to the measure that was abandoned, but which had been mentioned as being likely to be included in the Queen’s Speech? One measure excited intense opposition among mental health professionals—it was expected to appear in the Queen’s Speech, but eventually did not, although I am not sure if it is there in draft form; I am not aware of that. If that measure has not been dropped but simply deferred and brought forward by another route for draft legislation during the year, the Government must address how the intense opposition is to be dissipated by changes to the Bill.

Nid wyf yn sicr at ba fesur y cyfeiriwch. A ydych yn cyfeirio at y mesur y rhoddwyd y gorau iddo, ond y soniwyd amdano fel un a oedd yn debygol o gael ei gynnwys yn Araith y Frenhines? Yr oedd un mesur yn ennyn gwrthwynebiad mawr iawn ymysg gweithwyr iechyd meddwl proffesiynol—yr oedd disgwyl iddo fod yn Araith y Frenhines, ond nid ydoedd yn y diwedd, er nad wyf yn sicr a ydyw yno ar ffurf drafft; nid wyf yn ymwybodol o hynny. Os nad yw’r mesur hwnnw wedi’i hepgor ac os nad yw ond yn cael ei ohirio a’i gyflwyno drwy ffordd arall ar gyfer deddfwriaeth ddrafft yn ystod y flwyddyn, bydd yn rhaid i’r Llywodraeth ystyried sut i chwalu’r gwrthwynebiad mawr hwnnw drwy newidiadau i’r Mesur.

Peter Rogers spoken in English p. 21

Peter Rogers siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 21

Has the First Minister issued any recent guidance to his Cabinet on the use of expletives in the Assembly Chamber?

A yw’r Prif Weinidog wedi cyhoeddi unrhyw ganllawiau diweddar i’w Gabinet ynghylch defnyddio rhegfeydd yn Siambr y Cynulliad?

Rhodri Morgan The First Minister spoken in English p. 21

Rhodri Morgan Y Prif Weinidog siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 21

None whatsoever, Peter. I apologise for putting you off your stroke during a speech you made last week. I also apologise to Kirsty, to whom I addressed the remarks. Perhaps that is as far as the matter should go.

Dim o gwbl, Peter. Ymddiheuraf am eich bwrw oddi ar eich echel yn ystod araith a wnaethoch yr wythnos diwethaf. Ymddiheuraf hefyd i Kirsty, y gwneuthum y sylwadau wrthi. Efallai y dylid gadael y mater yn y fan honno.

Dyfodol Swyddfeydd Post Trefol Cymru

The Future of Urban Post Offices in Wales

Q10 Brian Hancock spoken in English p. 21

C10 Brian Hancock siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 21

Will the First Minister make a statement on any recent meetings he has had with the Secretary of State for Wales regarding the future of urban post offices in Wales? (OAQ20481)

A wnaiff y Prif Weinidog ddatganiad ar unrhyw gyfarfodydd y mae wedi eu cael gydag Ysgrifennydd Gwladol Cymru ynghylch dyfodol swyddfeydd post trefol Cymru? (OAQ20481)

Rhodri Morgan The First Minister spoken in English p. 21

Rhodri Morgan Y Prif Weinidog siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 21

This subject has been discussed in meetings with the Secretary of State for Wales. I draw the Assembly’s attention to the announcement made some 10 days ago by Edwina Hart, the Finance Minister in launching the post office development fund to support post offices at risk of closure which serve deprived and isolated communities across Wales. I believe that funding of £2.5 million has been made available to support post offices under threat. Although I may be stretching the point in terms of urban post offices, Mike German made a similar announcement this morning as regards rural post offices.

Trafodwyd y mater hwn mewn cyfarfodydd gydag Ysgrifennydd Gwladol Cymru. Tynnaf sylw’r Cynulliad at y cyhoeddiad a wnaed tua 10 diwrnod yn ôl gan Edwina Hart, y Gweinidog Cyllid wrth lansio cronfa datblygu swyddfeydd post i gynorthwyo swyddfeydd post sydd mewn perygl o gau sy’n gwasanaethu cymunedau difreintiedig ac anghysbell ledled Cymru. Credaf fod cyllid o £2.5 miliwn wedi’i ddarparu i gynorthwyo swyddfeydd post sydd dan fygythiad. Er fy mod yn crwydro’n rhy bell oddi ar bwnc swyddfeydd post trefol o bosibl, gwnaeth Mike German gyhoeddiad tebyg y bore yma ynghylch swyddfeydd post gwledig.

Brian Hancock spoken in English p. 22

Brian Hancock siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 22

The Cabinet’s performance and innovation unit has defined what constitutes an urban and rural post office. An urban post office serves 10,000 or more inhabitants. In my constituency of Islwyn, there are 31 post offices, 48.4 per cent of which are rural, with the remainder being urban. This is a greater than expected number. In light of the announcement of £2.5 million over three years to support post offices under threat, will you increase the funding to provide a full share, through Barnett, of the £210 million being spent in England, which would amount to £10.5 million?

Mae uned perfformiad ac arloesedd y Cabinet wedi diffinio’r hyn yw swyddfa bost drefol a gwledig. Mae swyddfa bost drefol yn gwasanaethu 10,000 o drigolion neu fwy. Yn fy etholaeth i, Islwyn, mae 31 o swyddfeydd post, y mae 48.4 y cant ohonynt yn rhai gwledig, a’r gweddill yn rhai trefol. Mae hyn yn nifer fwy na’r disgwyl. Yng ngoleuni’r cyhoeddiad o £2.5 miliwn dros dair blynedd i gynorthwyo swyddfeydd post sydd dan fygythiad, a wnewch gynyddu’r cyllid i ddarparu cyfran lawn, drwy fformiwla Barnett, o’r £210 miliwn a werir yn Lloegr, a fyddai’n dod i £10.5 miliwn?

Rhodri Morgan The First Minister spoken in English p. 22

Rhodri Morgan Y Prif Weinidog siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 22

I am sure that Edwina Hart would be shocked to find you alleging that she has not provided the full share through Barnett. I do not think that you listened carefully to my answer, Brian, because I said that the £2.5 million relates to post offices in deprived and isolated parts of Wales. The fund was developed in partnership with the National Federation of Subpostmasters, Post Office Ltd, Postwatch Wales and the Department of Trade and Industry. This has been done, therefore, in careful consultation with all the stakeholders. No doubt you will able to gain further information about rural post offices from Mike German, following his formal announcement this morning.

Yr wyf yn siŵr y byddai Edwina Hart yn synnu’n fawr o’ch clywed yn honni nad yw wedi darparu’r gyfran lawn drwy fformiwla Barnett. Ni chredaf ichi wrando’n ofalus ar fy ateb, Brian, oherwydd dywedais fod y £2.5 miliwn yn ymwneud â swyddfeydd post mewn rhannau difreintiedig ac anghysbell o Gymru. Datblygwyd y gronfa mewn partneriaeth â Ffederasiwn Cenedlaethol yr Is-bostfeistri, Post Office Cyf, Postwatch Cymru a’r Adran Masnach a Diwydiant. Gwnaed hyn, felly, drwy ymgynghori’n ofalus â’r holl randdeiliaid. Mae’n sicr y byddwch yn gallu cael rhagor o wybodaeth am swyddfeydd post gwledig gan Mike German, ar ôl ei gyhoeddiad ffurfiol y bore yma.

Peter Black spoken in English p. 22

Peter Black siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 22

I welcome the additional money made available for urban post offices. However, do you accept that the new method of paying benefits and pensions from 1 April 2003 will pose a significant threat to every post office in Wales, and that it is important for post offices to encourage their customers to switch over to the cash-card method of payment in order to help keep post offices open and functioning? Will you make representations on behalf of the Assembly to the Department for Work and Pensions regarding the fact that it has insisted that post offices should not yet promote this method of payment to their customers?

Croesawaf yr arian ychwanegol a ddarparwyd ar gyfer swyddfeydd post trefol. Fodd bynnag, a ydych yn derbyn y bydd y dull newydd o dalu budd-daliadau a phensiynau o 1 Ebrill 2003 yn fygythiad mawr i bob swyddfa bost yng Nghymru, a’i bod yn bwysig i swyddfeydd post annog eu cwsmeriaid i droi at y dull cerdyn arian o dalu er mwyn helpu i gadw swyddfeydd post ar agor ac yn weithredol? A wnewch gyflwyno sylwadau ar ran y Cynulliad i’r Adran Gwaith a Phensiynau ynghylch y ffaith ei bod wedi mynnu na ddylai swyddfeydd post hyrwyddo’r dull talu hwn eto ymysg eu cwsmeriaid?

Rhodri Morgan The First Minister spoken in English p. 23

Rhodri Morgan Y Prif Weinidog siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 23

I had not heard that that is the case. The philosophy of ‘use it or lose it’ should be borne in mind when it comes to keeping post offices open. I commend villagers in Blaenplwyf, Ceredigion, for their efforts in taking over the village shop and post office, with some assistance from the Assembly and our agencies, in order to turn it into a viable hub of the community. Keeping hubs viable means utilising services to the full. You cannot force people to use post offices, but they are extremely valuable. The trouble is that people only appreciate their value after they have closed down, which is when they desperately want them to be opened again. If people have not made full use of post offices, they only have themselves to blame for their closure, although others may blame the pressure on post office funding arising from Postcomm’s recent proposals.

Nid oeddwn wedi clywed mai felly yr oedd. Dylid cofio’r athroniaeth ‘defnyddiwch hi neu collwch hi’ pan ddaw’n fater o gadw swyddfeydd post ar agor. Canmolaf bentrefwyr ym Mlaen-plwyf, Ceredigion, am eu hymdrechion wrth gymryd drosodd siop a swyddfa bost y pentref, gyda rhywfaint o gymorth gan y Cynulliad a’n hasiantaethau, er mwyn ei throi’n ganolbwynt hyfyw i’r gymuned. Mae cadw canolbwyntiau hyfyw’n golygu defnyddio gwasanaethau i’r eithaf. Ni allwch orfodi pobl i ddefnyddio swyddfeydd post, ond maent yn werthfawr dros ben. Y drafferth yw nad yw pobl ond yn sylweddoli eu gwerth wedi iddynt gau, a dyna pryd y maent yn daer am iddynt gael eu hailagor. Os nad yw pobl wedi llawn ddefnyddio swyddfeydd post, ni allant roi’r bai ar neb arall am eu cau, er y gallai eraill fwrw’r bai ar y pwysau ar gyllid swyddfeydd post oherwydd cynigion diweddar Postcomm.

David Ian Jones spoken in English p. 23

David Ian Jones siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 23

As you are aware, the Royal Mail intends to close some 300 urban sub-post offices in Wales. The offices due for closure have not yet been identified. I am sure you will appreciate that this is causing extreme anxiety to sub-postmasters and sub-postmistresses, who are unable to plan their futures. The sub-postmaster in Craig y Don, Llandudno, told me that he wants to invest £40,000 in his business to take it forward, but cannot do so until he knows whether or not his post office is to be closed. Do you agree that this state of affairs is unreasonable and unacceptable, and will you urge the Post Office to identify as soon as possible the sub-post offices earmarked for closure so that sub-postmasters and sub-postmistresses can get on with their lives?

Fel y gwyddoch, mae’r Post Brenhinol yn bwriadu cau tua 300 o is-swyddfeydd post trefol yng Nghymru. Nid yw’r swyddfeydd sydd i’w cau wedi’u henwi eto. Yr wyf yn sicr y byddwch yn gwerthfawrogi bod hyn yn peri pryder mawr iawn i is-bostfeistri ac is-bostfeistresi, na allant gynllunio eu dyfodol. Dywedodd yr is-bostfeistr yng Nghraig y Don, Llandudno, wrthyf ei fod yn dymuno buddsoddi £40,000 yn ei fusnes i’w ddatblygu, ond na all wneud hynny hyd nes y caiff wybod a yw ei swyddfa bost i’w chau ai peidio. A gytunwch fod y sefyllfa hon yn afresymol ac yn annerbyniol, ac a wnewch bwyso ar Swyddfa’r Post i enwi cyn gynted ag y bo modd yr is-swyddfeydd post a glustnodwyd i’w cau fel y gall is-bostfeistri ac is-bostfeistresi ailafael yn eu bywydau?

Rhodri Morgan The First Minister spoken in English p. 23

Rhodri Morgan Y Prif Weinidog siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 23

The preamble to your question was incorrect; it is Post Office Counters Ltd that intends to do this, not the Royal Mail, although they are both part of the Post Office. We are the first administration in the UK to launch a support scheme for post offices at risk of closure. I suppose that your point is that sub-postmasters cannot access the fund until they know whether or not they face closure. The success of the fund will depend on whether or not sub-postmasters propose enterprising and innovative applications for assistance. In the case of the post office that you mentioned, it is not yet clear whether it will face closure. I do not want to encourage the Post Office to accelerate the process whereby there is a threat of closures, although that will happen anyway. If sub-postmasters believe that their post offices are at risk of closure, they should inquire about the application form and have an enterprising, innovative scheme ready so that, if requried, they can access the £2.5 million fund announced by Edwina Hart.

Yr oedd y rhagymadrodd i’ch cwestiwn yn anghywir; Cownteri Swyddfa’r Post Cyf. sy’n bwriadu gwneud hyn, nid y Post Brenhinol, er bod y ddau ohonynt yn rhan o Swyddfa’r Post. Ni yw’r weinyddiaeth gyntaf yn y DU i lansio cynllun cymorth ar gyfer swyddfeydd post sydd mewn perygl o gau. Cymeraf mai’r pwynt sydd gennych yw na all is-bostfeistri gael at y gronfa hyd nes y gwyddant a fyddant yn cau ai peidio. Bydd llwyddiant y gronfa’n dibynnu ar pa un ai a fydd is-bostfeistri’n gwneud ceisiadau mentrus ac arloesol am gymorth ai peidio. Yn achos y swyddfa bost y cyfeiriasoch ati, nid yw’n glir eto a gaiff ei chau. Nid wyf am annog Swyddfa’r Post i gyflymu’r broses fel y bydd bygythiad i gau swyddfeydd post, er y bydd hynny’n digwydd beth bynnag. Os yw is-bostfeistri’n credu bod eu swyddfeydd post mewn perygl o gael eu cau, dylent holi am y ffurflen gais a pharatoi cynllun mentrus, arloesol fel y gallant gael at y gronfa o £2.5 miliwn a gyhoeddwyd gan Edwina Hart, os bydd angen.

Is-Bwyllgor y Cabinet ar Blant a Phobl Ifanc

Children and Young People Cabinet Sub-Committee

Q11 Gwenda Thomas spoken in English p. 24

C11 Gwenda Thomas siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 24

When did the children and young people Cabinet sub-committee last meet? (OAQ20501)

Pryd y cynhaliwyd cyfarfod diwethaf is-Bwyllgor y Cabinet ar blant a phobl ifanc? (OAQ20501)

Rhodri Morgan The First Minister spoken in English p. 24

Rhodri Morgan Y Prif Weinidog siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 24

It last met on 14 October this year and, as Max Boyce would say, I know because I was there.

Cyfarfu ddiwethaf ar 14 Hydref eleni ac, fel y dywedai Max Boyce, yr wyf yn gwybod gan fy mod yno.

Gwenda Thomas spoken in English p. 24

Gwenda Thomas siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 24

Will you seek to ensure that, at its next meeting, the sub-committee considers the importance of ensuring that Wales’s 22 local authorities have a consistent approach to corporate parenting?

A wnewch sicrhau y bydd yr is-bwyllgor, yn ei gyfarfod nesaf, yn ystyried y pwysigrwydd o sicrhau bod 22 awdurdod lleol Cymru’n cymryd agwedd gyson at fagu corfforaethol?

Rhodri Morgan The First Minister spoken in English p. 24

Rhodri Morgan Y Prif Weinidog siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 24

Yes. How we support parents—through Sure Start and during the period in which they might be communicating strongly with nurseries and playgroups—is important in terms of encouraging good parenting. Good parenting leads to children having happy childhoods, which, in turn, ensures that they grow up to be good citizens.

Gwnaf. Mae’r modd yr ydym yn cynorthwyo rhieni—drwy Cychwyn Cadarn ac yn ystod y cyfnod pan allent fod â chysylltiad cadarn â meithrinfeydd a grwpiau chwarae—yn bwysig o ran hybu arferion magu da. Mae arferion magu da’n peri y bydd plant yn cael plentyndod hapus, ac mae hynny, yn ei dro, yn sicrhau eu bod yn tyfu’n ddinasyddion da.

Jonathan Morgan spoken in English p. 24

Jonathan Morgan siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 24

I have supported the Government’s efforts to establish young people’s partnerships in local authority areas in Wales. Do you share my concern that, while the Minister for Education and Lifelong Learning has stipulated that a variety of people from the great and the good in society should be part of these partnerships, she has not stipulated that the partnerships should also include young people? Do you not find that bizarre?

Yr wyf wedi cefnogi ymdrechion y Llywodraeth i sefydlu partneriaethau pobl ifanc mewn ardaloedd awdurdod lleol yng Nghymru. A ydych yn bryderus fel minnau, er bod y Gweinidog dros Addysg a Dysgu Gydol Oes wedi mynnu y dylai amryw o blith mawrion cymdeithas fod yn rhan o’r partneriaethau hyn, nad yw wedi mynnu y bydd y partneriaethau’n cynnwys pobl ifanc hefyd? Onid ydych yn cael hynny’n beth rhyfedd?

Rhodri Morgan The First Minister spoken in English p. 24

Rhodri Morgan Y Prif Weinidog siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 24

I do not think that there is a shortage of young people getting involved in young people’s partnerships. The more we develop the great and the good of the future by involving them at the earliest possible stage, the better the prospects for Welsh citizenship in the future.

Nid wyf yn credu bod prinder o bobl ifanc sy’n cymryd rhan mewn partneriaethau pobl ifanc. Po fwyaf y datblygwn fawrion y dyfodol drwy eu cynnwys yn y cyfnod cynharaf posibl, gorau fydd y rhagolygon ar gyfer dinasyddiaeth Gymreig yn y dyfodol.

Helen Mary Jones spoken in English p. 25

Helen Mary Jones siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 25

Has the Cabinet sub-committee discussed the relationship between the Children’s Commissioner for Wales and the Welsh Assembly Government, in light of the letter sent by the Minister for Health and Social Services to a local authority some months ago stating that the commissioner’s recommendations carried no force? If that has not been discussed, will you undertake to discuss it or to review the issue, with a view to promoting a respectable approach to the views of the children’s commissioner by all levels of the Government of Wales?

A yw is-bwyllgor y Cabinet wedi trafod y berthynas rhwng Comisiynydd Plant Cymru a Llywodraeth Cynulliad Cymru, yng ngolwg y llythyr a anfonwyd gan y Gweinidog dros Iechyd a Gwasanaethau Cymdeithasol i awdurdod lleol rai misoedd yn ôl yn datgan nad oedd grym i argymhellion y comisiynydd? Os na thrafodwyd hynny, a wnewch ymgymryd i drafod neu adolygu’r mater, gyda golwg ar hyrwyddo ymagwedd barchus at farn y comisiynydd plant ym mhob lefel o Lywodraeth Cymru?

Rhodri Morgan The First Minister spoken in English p. 25

Rhodri Morgan Y Prif Weinidog siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 25

That is not a good description of the current situation. When local authorities in Wales have raised this issue with me, I have instructed them to treat recommendations made by the children’s commissioner respectfully, as you requested in your final plea. That does not mean that the children’s commissioner has mandatory powers over local authorities. The first half of your question seemed to imply that the children’s commissioner could insist that developments be stopped or that planning permission be amended. That was never envisaged when the post of children’s commissioner was established. Local authorities must respect the children’s commissioner, and I have asked them to do so. As far as I know, all local authorities in Wales follow that practice.

Nid yw hynny’n ddisgrifiad da o’r sefyllfa bresennol. Pan yw awdurdodau lleol yng Nghymru wedi codi’r mater hwn gyda mi, yr wyf wedi’u cyfarwyddo i drin argymhellion gan y comisiynydd plant gyda pharch, fel y gwnaethoch ofyn yn eich apêl olaf. Nid yw hynny’n golygu bod gan y comisiynydd plant bwerau gorfodol dros awdurdodau lleol. Yr oedd yn ymddangos bod rhan gyntaf eich cwestiwn yn awgrymu y gallai’r comisiynydd plant fynnu atal datblygiadau neu newid caniatâd cynllunio. Ni ragwelwyd hynny erioed pan sefydlwyd swydd comisiynydd plant. Rhaid i awdurdodau lleol barchu’r comisiynydd plant, ac yr wyf wedi gofyn iddynt wneud hynny. Hyd y gwn i, mae pob awdurdod lleol yng Nghymru’n dilyn yr arfer hwnnw.

Datganiad ar ‘Cynllunio: Cyflawni dros Gymru’

Statement on ‘Planning: Delivering for Wales’

Sue Essex The Minister for Environment spoken in English p. 25

Sue Essex Y Gweinidog dros yr Amgylchedd siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 25

The Assembly Government believes that a transparent, effective and imaginative planning system is essential for delivering our objectives in ‘Plan for Wales 2001’. Members will recall our planning consultation paper, ‘Planning: Delivering for Wales’, which was issued for consultation in January 2002. It is green in nature and in its cover, and sets out the Assembly’s aspirations to transform and improve the planning system in Wales. It identified a set of proposals under three main categories. The aim under the first category, policies and plans, was to make these, including the Wales spatial plan, national guidance and local land use plans, more integrated, strategic and inclusive. Under the second category, decision making and development control, the aim is to improve the efficiency and quality of decision-making and, under the third category of resources, we aim to assess what is needed to help bring about change. Proposals for reforming the planning systems in England were consulted on in parallel with our proposals for reform in Wales. Some of the proposals consulted upon were the same as those for England, and we will follow through on some of its changes, as announced by the Deputy Prime Minister in July. However, there are some significant differences, which reflect our particular circumstances and structures of governance. I have seriously considered the consultation responses received, and a report analysing the responses was discussed by the Environment, Planning and Transport Committee and is available on the Assembly’s website. In producing our ‘green paper’ and analysing responses, we have involved the Welsh planning forum, a stakeholder group that includes representatives from business and from public sector, voluntary and environmental bodies, and which will continue to help us take forward the Assembly Government’s programme for change. Our approach to these changes particularly depends on local government.

Mae Llywodraeth y Cynulliad yn credu bod system gynllunio dryloyw, effeithiol a llawn dychymyg yn hollbwysig i gyflawni ein hamcanion yn ‘Cynllun i Gymru 2001’. Bydd yr Aelodau’n cofio ein papur ymgynghori ar gynllunio, ‘Cynllunio: Cyflawni dros Gymru’, a gyhoeddwyd ar gyfer ymgynghori yn Ionawr 2002. Mae’n wyrdd o ran ei natur a’i glawr, ac mae’n nodi dyheadau’r Cynulliad i drawsnewid a gwella’r system gynllunio yng Nghymru. Nododd set o gynigion dan dri phrif gategori. Y nod dan y categori cyntaf, polisïau a chynlluniau, oedd peri i’r rhain, gan gynnwys cynllun gofodol Cymru, canllawiau cenedlaethol a chynlluniau defnydd tir lleol, fod yn fwy integredig, strategol a chynhwysol. Dan yr ail gategori, penderfynu a rheoli datblygu, y nod yw gwella ansawdd ac effeithlonrwydd y penderfynu a, dan y trydydd categori, sef adnoddau, bwriadwn asesu’r hyn sydd ei angen i helpu i beri newid. Ymgynghorwyd ar gynigion i ddiwygio’r systemau cynllunio yn Lloegr yn gyfochrog â’n cynigion ar gyfer diwygio yng Nghymru. Yr oedd rhai o’r cynigion yr ymgynghorwyd arnynt yr un fath â’r rhai ar gyfer Lloegr, a byddwn yn dilyn rhai o’i newidiadau, fel y cyhoeddodd y Dirprwy Brif Weinidog yng Ngorffennaf. Fodd bynnag, mae rhai gwahaniaethau pwysig, sy’n adlewyrchu ein hamgylchiadau penodol a’n strwythurau llywodraethu. Yr wyf wedi ystyried yr ymatebion i’r ymgynghoriad o ddifrif, a thrafodwyd adroddiad a oedd yn dadansoddi’r ymatebion gan Bwyllgor yr Amgylchedd, Cynllunio a Thrafnidiaeth ac mae ar gael ar wefan y Cynulliad. Wrth gynhyrchu ein ‘papur gwyrdd’ a dadansoddi’r ymatebion, yr ydym wedi cynnwys fforwm cynllunio Cymru, grŵp o randdeiliaid sy’n cynnwys cynrychiolwyr o fusnes ac o’r sector cyhoeddus, cyrff gwirfoddol ac amgylcheddol, ac a fydd yn parhau i’n helpu i fwrw ymlaen â rhaglen Llywodraeth y Cynulliad ar gyfer newid. Mae ein dull o ymdrin â’r newidiadau hyn yn dibynnu’n benodol ar lywodraeth leol.

To turn to the way forward, I am launching today a comprehensive programme of change, an outline of which you have seen on the Assembly website. Most of the reforms involve updating Assembly secondary legislation and reviewing policy, technical and procedural advice. There will be an opportunity to discuss this programme in the Environment, Planning and Transport Committee and with our partners in the near future. I am committed to working with the Welsh planning forum in drawing up details of the changes and their implementation.

Gan droi at y ffordd ymlaen, yr wyf heddiw’n lansio rhaglen newid gynhwysfawr, y gwelsoch amlinelliad ohoni ar wefan y Cynulliad. Mae’r rhan fwyaf o’r diwygiadau’n golygu diweddaru deddfwriaeth eilaidd y Cynulliad ac adolygu cyngor gweithdrefnol, technegol a pholisi. Bydd cyfle i drafod y rhaglen hon ym Mhwyllgor yr Amgylchedd, Cynllunio a Thrafnidiaeth a chyda’n partneriaid yn y dyfodol agos. Yr wyf wedi ymrwymo i weithio gyda fforwm cynllunio Cymru wrth baratoi manylion y newidiadau a’r dull o’u gweithredu.

The way forward will include: requiring local authorities to submit an annual report on their planning activity with regard to development plans and development control; working up the detail on regulations for new-style local authority development plans, including improving consultation processes and promoting collaborative working; the suggested integration of the ‘Minerals Planning Policy Wales’ and ‘Planning Policy Wales’; and a review of the processes involved in identifying and notifying departures from development plans and associated call-in policy.

Bydd y ffordd ymlaen yn cynnwys: mynnu bod awdurdodau lleol yn cyflwyno adroddiad blynyddol ar eu gweithgaredd cynllunio gyda golwg ar gynlluniau datblygu a rheoli datblygu; paratoi rheoliadau manwl ar gyfer cynlluniau datblygu awdurdod lleol o fath newydd, gan gynnwys gwella prosesau ymgynghori a hyrwyddo gweithio ar y cyd; yr awgrym i integreiddio ‘Polisi Cynllunio Mwynau Cymru’ a ‘Polisi Cynllunio Cymru’; ac adolygiad o’r prosesau sy’n ymwneud â chanfod a rhoi gwybod am wyriadau oddi wrth gynlluniau datblygu a pholisi galw i mewn yn gysylltiedig â hynny.

In terms of decision-making and development control, we are establishing a group to review the planning enforcement system and we will standardise and simplify processes across Wales for those who are applying for planning permission. We will also improve training for elected members who serve on planning committees, and expand and assist Planning Aid Wales—I am sure that most of you know of this voluntary organisation that supports community groups and so on—to help more communities access the planning system. We will also consult further on the effective scrutiny of applications in which local authorities have an interest.

Yng nghyd-destun penderfynu a rheoli datblygu, yr ydym yn sefydlu grŵp i adolygu’r system gorfodi cynllunio a gwnawn safoni a symleiddio prosesau ledled Cymru ar gyfer y rhai sy’n ymgeisio am ganiatâd cynllunio. Gwnawn hefyd wella’r hyfforddiant ar gyfer aelodau etholedig sy’n gwasanaethu ar bwyllgorau cynllunio, ac ehangu a helpu Cymorth Cynllunio Cymru—yr wyf yn siŵr bod y rhan fwyaf ohonoch yn gwybod am y corff gwirfoddol hwn sy’n cynorthwyo grwpiau cymunedol ac yn y blaen—i gynorthwyo mwy o gymunedau i ddefnyddio’r system gynllunio. Gwnawn ymgynghori ymhellach hefyd ar archwilio effeithiol ar geisiadau y mae gan awdurdodau lleol fuddiant ynddynt.

Some of the proposals require primary legislation, and we are working on this with the UK Government. We aim, first, to make the preparation of the Wales spatial plan a statutory duty for the Assembly and to give it statutory status in the planning process, secondly, to introduce local development plans in place of existing unitary and other development plans, and, thirdly, to improve the legislative framework for decision-making.

Mae rhai o’r cynigion yn gofyn deddfwriaeth sylfaenol, ac yr ydym yn gweithio ar hynny gyda Llywodraeth y DU. Ein bwriad, yn gyntaf, yw gwneud paratoi cynllun gofodol Cymru’n ddyletswydd statudol i’r Cynulliad ac i roi iddo statws statudol yn y broses gynllunio ac, yn ail, cyflwyno cynlluniau datblygu lleol yn lle’r cynlluniau datblygu unedol a’r cynlluniau datblygu eraill a geir ar hyn o bryd ac, yn drydydd, gwella’r fframwaith deddfwriaethol ar gyfer penderfynu.

The consultation process in England and Wales also involved parallel exercises on compulsory purchase and planning gain systems. The responses we received were similar to those received in England and referred to by the Deputy Prime Minister in July. He indicated that there would be a revision of policy guidance on planning obligations and a reform of compulsory purchase powers to provide better support to regeneration proposals.

Yr oedd y broses ymgynghori yng Nghymru a Lloegr hefyd yn cynnwys ymarferion cyfochrog ar systemau prynu gorfodol ac enillion cynllunio. Yr oedd yr ymatebion a gafwyd yn debyg i’r rhai a gafwyd yn Lloegr a chyfeiriodd y Dirprwy Brif Weinidog atynt yng Ngorffennaf. Nododd y byddid yn adolygu’r canllawiau polisi ar rwymedigaethau cynllunio ac yn diwygio pwerau prynu gorfodol i roi gwell cefnogaeth i gynigion adfywio.

Resources have been allocated in this year’s budget to support local planning authorities in the implementation of this reform package. However, funding is not the only, nor, necessarily, the most important, resource—I emphasise that. The people who work within the system are perhaps the most vital part of the equation. It is crucial that we retain and develop the skills of staff and elected members who work in planning. To progress that, we will work closely with the Royal Town Planning Institute, Syniad, the Welsh Local Government Association and educational institutions.

Dyrannwyd adnoddau yng nghyllideb y flwyddyn hon i helpu awdurdodau cynllunio lleol i weithredu’r pecyn diwygiadau hwn. Fodd bynnag, nid cyllid yw’r unig adnodd, na’r adnodd pwysicaf o reidrwydd—pwysleisiaf hynny. Y rhai sy’n gweithio o fewn y system yw’r rhan bwysicaf o’r hafaliad o bosibl. Mae’n hollbwysig ein bod yn cadw ac yn datblygu sgiliau staff ac aelodau etholedig sy’n gweithio mewn cynllunio. Er mwyn hyrwyddo hynny, byddwn yn cydweithio’n agos â’r Sefydliad Cynllunio Trefol Brenhinol, Syniad, Cymdeithas Llywodraeth Leol Cymru a sefydliadau addysgol.

During the consultation process, I appeared before the House of Commons Select Committee on Transport, Local Government and the Regions to answer questions on ‘Planning: Delivering for Wales’, and was gratified by its complimentary comments. I am confident that our programme for change is the best for Wales. Unfortunately, I do not have enough time today to go through the large number of changes listed on the website, and have therefore given you a few key highlights only. At the heart of these proposals is a culture change, designed to give planning the high and positive profile that is needed to improve quality of life in our communities, while accommodating development and change. However, the fundamental structure of how we deliver planning will remain in place.

Yn ystod y broses ymgynghori, ymddangosais gerbron Pwyllgor Dethol Tŷ’r Cyffredin ar Drafnidiaeth, Llywodraeth Leol a’r Rhanbarthau i ateb cwestiynau ar ‘Cynllunio: Cyflawni dros Gymru’, ac yr oedd yn braf clywed ei sylwadau canmoliaethus. Yr wyf yn ffyddiog mai ein rhaglen ni ar gyfer newid yw’r un orau i Gymru. Gwaetha’r modd, nid oes gennyf ddigon o amser heddiw i fynd drwy’r nifer fawr o newidiadau a restrwyd ar y wefan, ac yr wyf felly wedi tynnu’ch sylw at ychydig o’r materion allweddol yn unig. Yr hyn sydd wrth wraidd y cynigion hyn yw newid diwylliant, gyda’r bwriad o roi’r lle amlwg a chadarnhaol i gynllunio y mae ei angen i wella’r ansawdd bywyd yn ein cymunedau, gan ddarparu ar gyfer datblygu a newid. Fodd bynnag, bydd strwythur sylfaenol ein dull o weithredu cynllunio yn aros.

We will now concentrate on bringing forward the improvements shown in our programme on the website. The programme is ambitious and will be demanding to deliver. Delivering it requires sufficient financial resources, commitment from our partners, and a recognition of the important role of planning in securing our aims for Wales.

Canolbwyntiwn yn awr ar ddwyn gerbron y gwelliannau a ddangosir yn ein rhaglen ar y wefan. Mae’r rhaglen yn un uchelgeisiol a bydd yn gofyn llawer i’w chyflawni. Bydd ei chyflawni’n gofyn adnoddau ariannol digonol, ymrwymiad ar ran ein partneriaid, a chydnabyddiaeth i rôl bwysig cynllunio wrth sicrhau ein nodau ar gyfer Cymru.

Janet Davies spoken in English p. 28

Janet Davies siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 28

I welcome the statement. Planning is especially important in Wales because Wales is a green country, and I am pleased that the Minister has referred to green policies. A small part of Wales is a hotspot for development, but there is not enough happening in the rest of Wales to keep the population where it is. It is important to ensure a balance in that regard.

Croesawaf y datganiad hwn. Mae cynllunio’n arbennig o bwysig yng Nghymru am mai gwlad werdd yw Cymru, ac yr wyf yn falch bod y Gweinidog wedi cyfeirio at bolisïau gwyrdd. Mae rhan fach o Gymru’n fan poeth ar gyfer datblygu, ond nid oes digon yn digwydd yng ngweddill Cymru i gadw’r boblogaeth lle y mae. Mae’n bwysig inni sicrhau cydbwysedd yn hynny o beth.

Planning advice and guidelines, as the Minister said, are in acute need of reform, and while some advice will be the same as that in England, other advice needs to be specific to Wales because we have our own problems. Reviewing policy and technical and procedural advice is important, and there is an acute need for new definitions in some of the technical advice notes. For example, one technical note concerns decisions on sites of potential flooding and, until this is properly defined, there may be problems.

Fel y dywedodd y Gweinidog, mae taer angen diwygio cyngor a chanllawiau cynllunio, ac er y bydd peth o’r cyngor yr un fath ag yn Lloegr, mae cyngor arall y bydd yn rhaid iddo fod yn benodol ar gyfer Cymru am fod gennym ein problemau ein hunain. Mae’n bwysig adolygu polisi a chyngor technegol a gweithdrefnol, ac mae taer angen diffiniadau newydd yn rhai o’r nodiadau cyngor technegol. Er enghraifft, mae un nodyn technegol yn ymwneud â phenderfyniadau ar safleoedd lle y gellid cael llifogydd a, hyd nes y diffinnir hynny’n briodol, mae’n bosibl y ceir problemau.

The Minister referred to policy and plans. Plans have changed their titles over the years—the title of this plan is close to that of one of the original plans—but whatever they are called, the time it takes to produce them is worrying because, by the time they come into effect, they are already out of date, and new plans have to be considered. An enormous amount of time can be spent on producing plans. However, it is also important that notice is taken of the plans. There is no point in spending money and taking up incredible amounts of officials’ time to produce plans if they are ignored in decision-making and development control, as sometimes happens.

Cyfeiriodd y Gweinidog at bolisi a chynlluniau. Bu newid yn nheitlau cynlluniau dros y blynyddoedd—mae teitl y cynllun hwn yn debyg i deitl un o’r cynlluniau gwreiddiol—ond beth bynnag y’u gelwir, mae’r amser a gymer i’w cynhyrchu’n peri pryder oherwydd, erbyn iddynt ddod i rym, maent eisoes yn hen ffasiwn, a rhaid ystyried cynlluniau newydd. Gellir treulio amser maith iawn yn cynhyrchu cynlluniau. Fodd bynnag, mae hefyd yn bwysig cymryd sylw o’r cynlluniau. Nid oes diben gwario arian a chymryd oriau dirifedi o amser swyddogion i gynhyrchu cynlluniau os cânt eu hanwybyddu wrth wneud penderfyniadau a rheoli datblygu, fel sy’n digwydd weithiau.

The Minister has said that she is working with the United Kingdom Government on the Planning and Compulsory Purchase Bill to ensure that it addresses the needs of Wales. Will this cut across any of the reforms that the Assembly Government is planning? We must ensure that we are not left in a difficult position because a measure that will affect us adversely has been included in the Bill. On planning gain systems and compulsory purchase powers, will these meet the National Assembly Government’s aspirations for planning or will there be clashes? I look forward to the Wales spatial plan getting statutory status, as do many other Members.

Dywedodd y Gweinidog ei bod yn gweithio gyda Llywodraeth y Deyrnas Unedig ar y Mesur Cynllunio a Phrynu Gorfodol i sicrhau ei fod yn rhoi sylw i anghenion Cymru. A fydd hyn yn torri ar draws unrhyw un o’r diwygiadau y mae Llywodraeth y Cynulliad yn eu cynllunio? Rhaid inni sicrhau na chawn ein gadael mewn sefyllfa anodd am fod mesur a fydd yn effeithio er gwaeth arnom wedi’i gynnwys yn y Mesur. Ynghylch systemau enillion cynllunio a phwerau prynu gorfodol, a fydd y rhain yn gwireddu dyheadau Llywodraeth Cynulliad Cymru ar gyfer cynllunio neu a fydd gwrthdaro? Edrychaf ymlaen at weld cynllun gofodol Cymru’n cael statws statudol, fel y mae llawer o’r Aelodau eraill.

Finally, on speeding up the planning system, no-one wants the process to take longer than necessary. Probably all of us have submitted planning applications at some time, and it can be frustrating if they get held up. However, I believe that it is better to get development right rather than to rush a decision through for the sake of two or three weeks. I say that as a former chair of a planning committee that had the unenviable reputation of being the slowest in Wales to make decisions. However, that was good in that it meant that we made better decisions—

Yn olaf, ynghylch cyflymu’r system gynllunio, nid oes neb am i’r broses gymryd mwy o amser nag y bo’n rhaid. Mae’n debyg bod pob un ohonom wedi cyflwyno ceisiadau cynllunio ar ryw adeg neu’i gilydd, a gall beri rhwystredigaeth os cânt eu dal yn ôl. Er hynny, credaf mai gwell yw cael datblygu’n iawn yn hytrach na brysio penderfyniad er mwyn ennill pythefnos neu dair wythnos. Dywedaf hynny fel cyn gadeirydd pwyllgor cynllunio a oedd â’r enw annymunol o fod yn arafach na’r un arall yng Nghymru am wneud penderfyniadau. Fodd bynnag, yr oedd hynny’n beth da gan ei fod yn golygu ein bod yn gwneud gwell penderfyniadau—

Dafydd Elis-Thomas The Presiding Officer spoken in English p. 30

Dafydd Elis-Thomas Y Llywydd siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 30

Order. I have followed your career with great interest, including your time in planning, but I would like you to ask a question now.

Trefn. Yr wyf wedi dilyn eich gyrfa gyda diddordeb mawr, gan gynnwys eich amser mewn cynllunio, ond hoffwn ichi ofyn cwestiwn yn awr.

Janet Davies spoken in English p. 30

Janet Davies siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 30

I have asked several questions on the Planning and Compulsory Purchase Bill. That is what I would like the Minister to respond on.

Yr wyf wedi gofyn sawl cwestiwn ar y Mesur Cynllunio a Phrynu Gorfodol. Ar hynny yr hoffwn i’r Gweinidog ymateb.

Sue Essex spoken in English p. 30

Sue Essex siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 30

We have both worked on planning decisions in the past, albeit in different authorities. I thank you for your positive comments. You are right that Wales has varied planning situations. Some areas are hotspots for development, which is welcome in that it can mean jobs coming to those areas, but there are also rural areas where we must strike a fine balance between encouraging development and environmental protection.

Yr ydym ni’n dwy wedi gweithio ar benderfyniadau cynllunio yn y gorffennol, er mewn awdurdodau gwahanol. Diolchaf i chi am eich sylwadau cadarnhaol. Yr ydych yn iawn wrth ddweud bod gan Gymru sefyllfaoedd cynllunio amrywiol. Mae rhai ardaloedd yn fannau poeth ar gyfer datblygu, sy’n beth i’w groesawu oherwydd y gall hynny olygu bod swyddi’n dod i’r ardaloedd hynny, ond mae ardaloedd gwledig hefyd lle y mae’n rhaid inni sicrhau cydbwysedd rhwng hybu datblygu ac amddiffyn yr amgylchedd.

On planning advice and guidelines, I have in my hand the red and green—I am pleased with the colours—‘Planning Policy Wales’, which is an integrated document and was launched in March 2002. It has been warmly welcomed and I have received positive comments about it. Wales is different from England in this regard, as England is still in the process of preparing individual planning policies. Sustainable development is written in throughout the document, and the document is intended to complement the other plans and policies produced by the National Assembly. I am sure that it does so. You are right that the technical advice notes need updating. On the flood risk technical advice note, we have written to local authorities giving them interim guidance. However, we must ensure that the technical advice notes are up-to-date and correspond to this planning guidance. That is largely a matter of resources, but also of how we are doing that. For example, we are currently considering the TAN on renewable energy. It is important that we involve those with a direct interest and concern to ensure that the technical advice notes are right.

Ynghylch cyngor a chanllawiau cynllunio, yr wyf yn dal yn fy llaw y ‘Polisi Cynllunio Cymru’ coch a gwyrdd—yr wyf yn falch o’r lliwiau—sy’n ddogfen integredig a lansiwyd ym Mawrth 2002. Cafodd groeso cynnes ac yr wyf wedi cael sylwadau cadarnhaol yn ei gylch. Mae Cymru’n wahanol i Loegr yn hynny o beth, gan fod Lloegr yn dal i fod ar ganol paratoi polisïau cynllunio unigol. Mae datblygu cynaliadwy wedi’i ymgorffori drwy’r ddogfen, a bwriedir i’r ddogfen ategu’r cynlluniau a’r polisïau eraill a gynhyrchwyd gan y Cynulliad Cenedlaethol. Yr wyf yn siŵr ei bod yn gwneud hynny. Yr ydych yn iawn wrth ddweud bod angen diweddaru’r nodiadau cyngor technegol. Ynghylch y nodyn cyngor technegol ar y perygl o lifogydd, yr ydym wedi ysgrifennu at yr awdurdodau lleol gan roi canllawiau dros dro iddynt. Fodd bynnag, rhaid inni sicrhau bod y nodiadau cyngor technegol yn gyfoes ac yn cyfateb i’r canllawiau cynllunio hyn. Mae hynny’n fater o adnoddau i raddau helaeth, ond yn fater hefyd o’r modd yr ydym yn gwneud hynny. Er enghraifft, yr ydym yn ystyried y nodyn cyngor technegol ar ynni adnewyddadwy ar hyn o bryd. Mae’n bwysig inni gynnwys y rhai sydd â buddiant a diddordeb uniongyrchol er mwyn sicrhau bod y nodiadau cyngor technegol yn gywir.

In terms of the development plan system, how to produce quality documents and development plans promptly is always a conundrum. When I look at the data on progress on unitary development plans, I am not best pleased because although some authorities have done reasonably well, others have set targets way into the future. Sometimes there is a reason for that, but one of my main concerns is the lack of staff employed by local authorities to progress those plans. I point out to local authorities that having an up-to-date development plan is one of the best ways to attract development and inward investment, as it gives clear guidance to potential investors.

Ynghylch system y cynlluniau datblygu, mae bob amser yn anodd dod o hyd i fodd i gynhyrchu dogfennau a chynlluniau datblygu o ansawdd da’n brydlon. Pan edrychaf ar y data ar y cynnydd ar gynlluniau datblygu unedol, nid wyf mor fodlon ag y gallwn fod oherwydd er bod rhai awdurdodau wedi gwneud yn eithaf da, mae eraill wedi gosod targedau sydd ymhell yn y dyfodol. Mae rheswm dros hynny weithiau, ond un o’m prif bryderon yw prinder y staff a gyflogir gan awdurdodau lleol i hyrwyddo’r cynlluniau hynny. Yr wyf yn tynnu sylw awdurdodau lleol at y ffaith mai cael cynllun datblygu cyfoes yw un o’r dulliau gorau o ddenu datblygiadau a mewnfuddsoddi, gan ei fod yn rhoi canllawiau pendant i ddarpar fuddsoddwyr.

Although I cannot say exactly what proposals will be made under the proposed planning legislation included, as Janet said, in the Queen’s Speech, there will be no change to the principle of decisions on planning applications being taken in accordance with the development plan. The provisions of section 54(a) of the Town and Country Planning Act 1990 will remain. There has been close collaboration on the UK Bill. I thank the Assembly staff in the planning and legal divisions who have burned the midnight oil and worked hard over recent months on this. I am content that the provisions in the Bill reflect situations where there is a joint England and Wales interest and that it will also contain clauses that reflect the Wales-only requirements that we want.

Er na allaf ddweud yn union pa gynigion a wneir dan y ddeddfwriaeth cynllunio arfaethedig a gafwyd, fel y dywedodd Janet, yn Araith y Frenhines, ni fydd newid i’r egwyddor o wneud penderfyniadau ar geisiadau cynllunio’n unol â’r cynllun datblygu. Bydd darpariaethau adran 54(a) o Ddeddf Cynllunio Gwlad a Thref 1990 yn parhau. Bu cydweithio agos ar Fesur y DU. Diolchaf i staff y Cynulliad yn yr is-adran gynllunio a’r is-adran gyfreithiol sydd wedi llosgi’r gannwyll yn hwyr a gweithio’n galed iawn ar hyn dros y misoedd diweddar. Yr wyf yn fodlon bod y darpariaethau yn y Mesur yn adlewyrchu sefyllfaoedd lle y mae buddiant gan Gymru a Lloegr ar y cyd ac y bydd hefyd yn cynnwys cymalau sy’n adlewyrchu’r gofynion i Gymru’n unig yr ydym am eu cael.

I am glad that you endorse the Wales spatial plan: we are leading in this regard. I was glad to visit Paris—Nick Bourne will no doubt ask a question about that—the week before last. I was invited—I did not seek to go—to visit the city on world town planning day to speak to European planners about the Wales spatial plan. I will be pleased to see the provisions that I mentioned in the Bill.

Yr wyf yn falch eich bod yn cefnogi cynllun gofodol Cymru: yr ydym ar y blaen yn hynny o beth. Yr oeddwn yn falch o ymweld â Pharis—mae’n sicr y bydd Nick Bourne yn gofyn cwestiwn am hynny—yr wythnos cyn y ddiwethaf. Fe’m gwahoddwyd—ni wneuthum gais am fynd—i ymweld â’r ddinas ar ddiwrnod cynllunio trefol y byd i siarad â chynllunwyr Ewropeaidd am gynllun gofodol Cymru. Byddaf yn falch o weld y darpariaethau a grybwyllais yn y Mesur.

On your last point on speeding up responses to planning applications, we must get the right balance on this. If you have been on the receiving end of the planning system, as you said, and have waited for eight weeks for a decision on a planning application to build an extension, for example, you will know the frustration that applicants can feel. As you rightly said, the quality of decisions is important and we are considering the indicators as well as the speed of response. A good way of ensuring that a good decision is made speedily is to conduct pre-application discussions. If we can ensure good practice in this regard, particularly for more complicated applications, then the final process will be more streamlined and faster.

Ynghylch y pwynt olaf a wnaethoch am gyflymu ymatebion i geisiadau cynllunio, rhaid inni sicrhau’r cydbwysedd cywir ar hyn. Os yw’r system gynllunio wedi effeithio arnoch chi, fel y dywedasoch, a chithau wedi aros wyth wythnos am benderfyniad ar gais cynllunio i godi estyniad, er enghraifft, gwyddoch am y rhwystredigaeth y gall ymgeiswyr ei theimlo. Fel y dywedasoch, mae ansawdd penderfyniadau’n bwysig ac yr ydym yn ystyried y dangosyddion yn ogystal â’r cyflymder ymateb. Dull da o sicrhau y gwneir penderfyniad da’n gyflym yw cynnal trafodaethau cyn y cais. Os gallwn sicrhau arferion da yn hyn o beth, yn enwedig ar gyfer ceisiadau mwy cymhleth, bydd y broses derfynol yn symlach ac yn gynt.

Tom Middlehurst spoken in English p. 32

Tom Middlehurst siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 32

You will be aware that development proposals often attract a good deal of controversy and often have high profile campaigns attached to them. I am sure that all Members can think of many such examples in their constituencies. However, most applications proceed successfully due to the professionalism of local authority planning officers and the existence of credible and clear plans, which are underpinned by the democratic process. How will your proposals ensure that local authorities do not depart from their own plans, which they do on occasion and which creates concern and angst in our communities? Furthermore, how will your proposals improve the process to bring about more prompt decisions, as Janet mentioned, and, as a result, wider acceptance of those decisions?

Byddwch yn ymwybodol bod llawer iawn o ddadlau yn aml ynghylch cynigion datblygu a bod ymgyrchoedd amlwg iawn yn gysylltiedig â hwy’n aml. Yr wyf yn sicr y gall pob Aelod feddwl am lawer enghraifft o’r fath yn ei etholaeth. Fodd bynnag, mae’r rhan fwyaf o geisiadau yn mynd ymlaen yn llwyddiannus oherwydd proffesiynoldeb swyddogion cynllunio awdurdodau lleol ac am fod cynlluniau credadwy a chlir mewn bod, a ategir gan y broses ddemocrataidd. Sut y bydd eich cynigion yn sicrhau nad yw awdurdodau lleol yn gwyro oddi wrth eu cynlluniau eu hunain, fel y gwnânt ar brydiau, gan greu pryder a gofid yn ein cymunedau? At hynny, sut y bydd eich cynigion yn gwella’r broses er mwyn cael penderfyniadau mwy prydlon, fel y dywedodd Janet, ac, o ganlyniad i hynny, mwy o barodrwydd i dderbyn y penderfyniadau hynny?

Sue Essex spoken in English p. 32

Sue Essex siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 32

You are right to point out that most planning applications go through without controversy and are dealt with and consulted upon in a professional way. However, every so often, some applications inevitably lead to disagreement. Having up-to-date development plans is the best way to smooth that path, because then everyone is in the loop. Potential investors will have a clear idea of where developments are likely to be agreed and where they are not. The development plan is the starting point. Unitary development plans have taken a long time to develop. They have been unnecessarily complex and the procedures and processes involved can be lengthy and prone to considerable delays. That is not good for anyone and often results in applications that depart from development plans. In some cases, the development plans are many years old. We are trying to encourage a way forward through the new-style development plans, which will be much simpler and will concentrate on land use. We will expect local authorities to monitor them effectively and to make statements at the end of each year on how the development plans, including the development control side, are working. They will then know whether there is a need to modify part of the plan. Up to now, plans have tended to be reconsidered as a whole, and matters that perhaps do not need to be discussed again have been regurgitated. These proposals will allow local authorities to focus on those aspects of a plan that need to be changed and will ensure that plans are more up-to-date, which will be helpful.

Yr ydych yn iawn wrth nodi y caiff y rhan fwyaf o geisiadau cynllunio eu cytuno heb ddadlau a bod y dull o’u trafod ac ymgynghori arnynt yn broffesiynol. Er hynny, bob hyn a hyn, mae’n anochel bod rhai ceisiadau’n arwain at anghytuno. Cael cynlluniau datblygu cyfoes yw’r modd gorau i baratoi’r ffordd ar gyfer hynny, gan fod pawb wedi’u cynnwys drwy hynny. Bydd gan ddarpar fuddsoddwyr syniad pendant o’r mannau lle y mae’n debygol neu’n annhebygol y cytunir ar ddatblygiadau. Y cynllun datblygu yw’r man cychwyn. Mae cynlluniau datblygu unedol wedi datblygu dros amser maith. Buont yn gymhleth heb fod angen hynny ac mae’r gweithdrefnau a’r prosesau cysylltiedig yn gallu bod yn hir ac maent yn dueddol i arwain at oedi sylweddol. Nid yw hynny’n beth da i neb ac mae’n arwain yn aml at geisiadau sy’n gwyro oddi wrth gynlluniau datblygu. Mewn rhai achosion, mae’r cynlluniau datblygu’n bod ers blynyddoedd lawer. Yr ydym yn ceisio hyrwyddo ffordd ymlaen drwy’r math newydd o gynlluniau datblygu, a fydd yn symlach o lawer ac yn canolbwyntio ar ddefnydd tir. Byddwn yn disgwyl i awdurdodau lleol eu monitro’n effeithiol a gwneud datganiadau ar ddiwedd pob blwyddyn ar weithrediad y cynlluniau datblygu, gan gynnwys yr ochr rheoli datblygu. Byddant yn gwybod wedyn a oes angen addasu rhan o’r cynllun. Hyd yn hyn, tueddwyd i ailystyried cynlluniau yn eu cyfanrwydd, ac mae materion nad oedd angen eu haildrafod o bosibl wedi’u hailgodi. Bydd y cynigion hyn yn caniatáu i awdurdodau lleol ganolbwyntio ar yr agweddau hynny ar gynllun y mae angen eu newid ac yn sicrhau bod y cynlluniau’n fwy cyfoes, a bydd hynny o gymorth.

On departures from development plans, we will work with local government to prevent the large numbers of departures that occur now, because that undermines confidence in the system and is not the right way forward.

Ynghylch gwyriadau oddi wrth gynlluniau datblygu, byddwn yn gweithio gyda llywodraeth leol i atal y niferoedd mawr o wyriadau sy’n digwydd yn awr, gan fod hynny’n tanseilio’r hyder yn y system ac nid hynny yw’r ffordd iawn ymlaen.

David Davies spoken in English p. 33

David Davies siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 33

I agree that it is important that planning has a high priority and profile. It follows that we must get the balance between protecting the economy and protecting the environment right. I have a few questions in order to elaborate slightly on some of the points made in the document. First, on protecting the environment and the green belt, can you assure me that introducing local development plans in place of unitary development plans will prevent further inappropriate developments on greenfield sites? Unfortunately, we have seen far too many such developments over the past few years, which have contributed to flooding and other environmental problems.

Cytunaf ei bod yn bwysig i gynllunio gael blaenoriaeth uchel ac amlygrwydd. Gan hynny, rhaid inni sicrhau’r cydbwysedd cywir rhwng amddiffyn yr economi ac amddiffyn yr amgylchedd. Mae gennyf ychydig o gwestiynau er mwyn ymhelaethu ychydig ar rai o’r pwyntiau a wneir yn y ddogfen. Yn gyntaf, ynghylch amddiffyn yr amgylchedd a’r llain las, a allwch fy sicrhau y bydd cyflwyno cynlluniau datblygu lleol yn lle cynlluniau datblygu unedol yn atal datblygiadau amhriodol pellach ar safleoedd tir glas? Gwaetha’r modd, gwelsom ormod o lawer o ddatblygiadau o’r fath dros yr ychydig flynyddoedd diwethaf, ac maent wedi cyfrannu at lifogydd a phroblemau amgylcheddol eraill.

Secondly is the issue of consulting further on the effective scrutiny of applications in which local authorities have an interest. That has been of particular concern to those living in Newport and also in parts of north Wales, I believe, where local authorities have gone ahead with building schools on brownfield sites in what were thought to be inappropriate circumstances. The only way to ensure that we can have confidence in local authorities determining on planning applications in which they have an interest is if the National Assembly automatically calls in such applications for perusal.

Yn ail y mae’r mater o ymgynghori pellach ar archwilio effeithiol ar geisiadau y mae gan awdurdodau lleol fuddiant ynddynt. Mae hynny wedi peri pryder yn benodol i’r rhai sy’n byw yng Nghasnewydd a hefyd mewn rhannau o’r Gogledd, yr wyf yn credu, lle y mae awdurdodau lleol wedi bwrw ymlaen â chodi ysgolion ar safleoedd tir llwyd dan amgylchiadau y credid eu bod yn amhriodol. Yr unig fodd inni sicrhau y gallwn ymddiried mewn penderfyniadau gan awdurdodau lleol ar geisiadau cynllunio y mae ganddynt fuddiant ynddynt yw os yw’r Cynulliad Cenedlaethol yn galw ceisiadau o’r fath i fewn yn awtomatig i’w harchwilio.

Thirdly, on the reform of compulsory purchase powers, it is of great concern to me and, I suspect, many other Members, that, all too often, people who have lost their land as a result of a compulsory purchase order have to struggle for months and, in some cases, years to get the money that is rightfully theirs. It is unacceptable that the Government can take people’s property away from them and then not pay them on time. That is happening at the moment and I have raised this issue with you, Minister, on several occasions.

Yn drydydd, ynghylch diwygio pwerau prynu gorfodol, testun pryder mawr i mi ac, yr wyf yn amau, i lawer o Aelodau eraill, yw bod rhai a gollodd eu tir o ganlyniad i orchymyn prynu gorfodol yn rhy aml yn gorfod brwydro am fisoedd ac, mewn rhai achosion, flynyddoedd, i gael yr arian y mae ganddynt hawl iddo. Mae’n annerbyniol bod y Llywodraeth yn gallu mynd ag eiddo pobl oddi arnynt a pheidio â’u talu’n brydlon wedyn. Mae hynny’n digwydd ar hyn o bryd ac yr wyf wedi codi’r mater gyda chi, Weinidog, sawl gwaith.

Another issue that I have raised with you previously is the integration of ‘Minerals Planning Policy Wales’ and ‘Planning Policy Wales’. Will that make it more or less likely that quarrying will take place in areas of outstanding natural beauty? ‘Planning Policy Wales’ indicates that that should not happen, however, the mineral planning guidance suggests that it might in some cases.

Mater arall yr wyf wedi’i godi gyda chi o’r blaen yw integreiddio ‘Polisi Cynllunio Mwynau Cymru’ a ‘Polisi Cynllunio Cymru’. A fydd hynny’n ei gwneud yn fwy neu’n llai tebygol y bydd cloddio mewn ardaloedd o harddwch naturiol eithriadol? Mae ‘Polisi Cynllunio Cymru’ yn nodi na ddylai hynny ddigwydd ond, er hynny, mae’r canllawiau ar gynllunio mwynau yn awgrymu y gall ddigwydd mewn rhai achosion.

Finally, you spoke about the red and the green on the cover of your document. Protecting the coast and sea around Wales is also important, so we would also like to see a bit of blue on the cover. I have no intention of asking about your trip to Paris. I am sure that it was worthwhile. As you well know, I think that it is important that we embrace our European partners.

Yn olaf, gwnaethoch sôn am y coch a’r gwyrdd ar glawr eich dogfen. Mae amddiffyn yr arfordir a’r môr o amgylch Cymru’n bwysig hefyd, felly carem weld ychydig o las ar y clawr hefyd. Nid wyf yn bwriadu eich holi am eich taith i Baris. Yr wyf yn siŵr ei bod yn fuddiol. Fel y gwyddoch yn dda, credaf ei bod yn bwysig ein bod yn cofleidio ein partneriaid Ewropeaidd.

Sue Essex spoken in English p. 35

Sue Essex siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 35

I have always thought that you were a europhile, David. You have demonstrated that on many occasions.

Yr wyf wedi credu erioed eich bod yn ewrogarwr, David. Yr ydych wedi profi hynny lawer gwaith.

I will go through your points. The policy on green belts is in the document, which describes the policy base. In terms of local development plans, the change in title does not change the area covered. Therefore, Monmouthshire, your neck of the woods, will produce its local development plan in the same way that it has produced, or is in the process of producing, its unitary development plan. The Wales spatial plan, which Janet referred to, will provide the regional and sub-regional context in which such plans will work. That is what is missing at the moment. We do not have a strategy for the whole of Wales, nor do we have sufficient regional guidance underpinning that. That will be covered by the Wales spatial plan.

Af drwy’ch pwyntiau. Mae’r polisi ar leiniau glas yn y ddogfen, sy’n disgrifio’r sylfaen bolisi. Ar gynlluniau datblygu lleol, nid yw’r newid teitl yn newid yr ardal a gwmpasir. Felly, bydd sir Fynwy, eich rhan chi o’r wlad, yn cynhyrchu ei chynllun datblygu lleol yn yr un modd ag y cynhyrchodd, neu y mae ar ganol cynhyrchu, ei chynllun datblygu unedol. Bydd cynllun gofodol Cymru, y cyfeiriodd Janet ato, yn darparu’r cyd-destun rhanbarthol ac is-ranbarthol y bydd cynlluniau o’r fath yn gweithio oddi mewn iddo. Dyna’r hyn sydd ar goll ar hyn o bryd. Nid oes gennym strategaeth ar gyfer Cymru gyfan, ac nid oes gennym ddigon o ganllawiau rhanbarthol yn sail i hynny. Ymdrinnir â hynny yng nghynllun gofodol Cymru.

In terms of developments in which local authorities have an interest, I think that our approach will be different to that in England. I have tried to ensure that our consultation paper is evidence based. The issue of making the system fair and accountable has been raised with me over the years, both in local authorities and here. There is a generally-held view that where local authorities have an interest in developments, it should not automatically follow that they should determine upon them. I have therefore stuck with that proposal, which received some positive responses in consultation. How we do that will be discussed with local government. You cannot insist that every application in which a local authority has an interest be called in. Sometimes, the interest will be minor, and we would just be putting a major barrier to development into the system. Most developments will be worthwhile and will go ahead. However, we need a means of filtering out major proposals where there are serious concerns, and perhaps to put them through some form of a public hearing. I am inclined to follow that as the way forward. We will, however, discuss the issue with local authorities.

Ynghylch datblygiadau y mae gan awdurdodau lleol fuddiant ynddynt, credaf y bydd ein dull gweithredu’n wahanol i’r un yn Lloegr. Yr wyf wedi ceisio sicrhau bod ein papur ymgynghori’n seiliedig ar dystiolaeth. Mae’r mater o sicrhau bod y system yn deg ac yn atebol wedi’i godi gyda mi dros y blynyddoedd, mewn awdurdodau lleol ac yma. Mae barn gyffredin, lle y mae gan awdurdodau lleol fuddiant mewn datblygiadau, na ddylai ddilyn yn awtomatig eu bod hwy’n penderfynu arnynt. Felly yr wyf wedi glynu wrth y cynnig hwnnw, a gafodd rai ymatebion cadarnhaol yn yr ymgynghoriad. Trafodir sut y gwnawn hynny gyda llywodraeth leol. Ni ellir mynnu y caiff pob cais y mae gan awdurdod lleol fuddiant ynddo ei alw i mewn. Weithiau, bydd y buddiant yn un bach, ac ni fyddem ond yn codi rhwystr mawr rhag datblygu yn y system. Bydd y rhan fwyaf o ddatblygiadau’n fuddiol a byddant yn mynd ymlaen. Er hynny, mae arnom angen dull o ddidoli cynigion mawr lle y mae pryderon difrifol, a chael rhyw fath o wrandawiad cyhoeddus arnynt o bosibl. Yr wyf yn dueddol i ddilyn hynny fel y ffordd ymlaen. Serch hynny, trafodwn y pwnc â’r awdurdodau lleol.

When the Bill is laid, you will be able to see what the provisions on compulsory purchase are. There was widespread support in the consultation to remove the complications that you mentioned. We have inherited a compulsory purchase system that is years old and has all sorts of complications. The reforms will streamline the system and make life easier for your constituents and others.

Pan gyflwynir y Mesur, byddwch yn gallu gweld beth yw’r darpariaethau ar brynu gorfodol. Yr oedd cefnogaeth eang yn yr ymgynghoriad i ddileu’r cymhlethdodau y gwnaethoch eu crybwyll. Yr ydym wedi etifeddu system prynu gorfodol sy’n bod ers blynyddoedd ac sydd â phob math o gymhlethdodau. Bydd y diwygiadau’n symleiddio’r system ac yn gwneud bywyd yn haws i’ch etholwyr chi ac eraill.

I am not sure what you mean about the mineral guidance giving the green light to quarrying, David. I am rather confused by your remarks on that, but I will discuss that with you outside the Chamber. On the sea, I have no problem in making the cover a nice turquoise blue if that would be palatable to the Tories, but not a ‘true blue’.

Nid wyf yn sicr beth a olygwch wrth ddweud bod y canllawiau ar fwynau’n rhoi rhwydd hynt i gloddio, David. Mae’ch sylwadau am hynny’n peri penbleth imi braidd, ond trafodaf hynny â chi y tu allan i’r Siambr. Ynghylch y môr, nid oes gennyf wrthwynebiad i’r clawr fod yn wyrddlas dymunol os byddai hynny’n dderbyniol gan y Torïaid, ond nid yn ‘las torïaidd’.

Peter Black spoken in English p. 36

Peter Black siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 36

I also welcome this statement, the consultation process and the response to it. It is important that Wales is seen to be out in front, particularly compared to England, in determining its planning policy. The issues raised are pertinent to those that confront us daily as Assembly Members. I also welcome your comments on local authority applications. It is not practical to call in every local authority application. I have sat on planning committees that have had up to 20 applications, all relating to changes to council houses as part of an improvement scheme. It would be overly burdensome to call such applications in. However, we should consider some form of independent scrutiny or hearing for controversial local authority applications so that people can have confidence in the process and in its impartiality. The challenge is to make the planning process more transparent and open, and more easily understood by people who possibly only deal with it once or twice in their lifetime, as opposed to councillors who deal with it every week. On reforming unitary development plans and the change to local development plans, I would like to see those integrated with other local plans for which the local councils have responsibility, such as local transport plans, housing strategies, the community plan and so on. It is important that we not only make the planning process as simple and understandable as possible, but also reduce the burden on local authorities in terms of the number of plans that they must develop. We must ensure proper integration across all the subject areas that local authorities deal with, making sure that those plans work together and reach similar conclusions.

Croesawaf finnau’r datganiad hwn, y broses ymgynghori a’r ymateb iddi. Mae’n bwysig y gwelir bod Cymru ar y blaen, yn enwedig o’i chymharu â Lloegr, wrth benderfynu ar ei pholisi cynllunio. Mae’r materion a godwyd yn berthnasol i’r rhai sy’n ein hwynebu bob dydd fel Aelodau Cynulliad. Yr wyf hefyd yn croesawu’ch sylwadau am geisiadau gan awdurdodau lleol. Nid yw’n ymarferol galw i mewn bob cais gan awdurdod lleol. Yr wyf wedi eistedd ar bwyllgorau cynllunio a gafodd hyd at 20 o geisiadau, a phob un yn ymwneud â newidiadau i dai cyngor fel rhan o gynllun gwella. Byddai galw i mewn geisiadau o’r fath yn creu gormod o faich. Er hynny, dylem ystyried rhyw fath o archwilio annibynnol neu wrandawiad ar gyfer ceisiadau dadleuol gan awdurdodau lleol fel y gall pobl ymddiried yn y broses ac yn ei natur ddiduedd. Yr her yw gwneud y broses gynllunio’n fwy tryloyw ac agored, ac yn haws ei deall gan bobl na fyddant ond yn delio â hi unwaith neu ddwy yn ystod eu hoes efallai, yn hytrach na chynghorwyr sy’n delio â hi bob wythnos. Ynghylch diwygio cynlluniau datblygu unedol a throi at gynlluniau datblygu lleol, carwn weld eu hintegreiddio â chynlluniau lleol eraill y mae cynghorau lleol yn gyfrifol amdanynt, megis cynlluniau trafnidiaeth lleol, strategaethau tai, y cynllun cymunedol ac yn y blaen. Mae’n bwysig ein bod nid yn unig yn gwneud y broses gynllunio mor syml a hawdd ei deall ag y bo modd, ond ein bod hefyd yn lleihau’r baich ar awdurdodau lleol o ran nifer y cynlluniau y maent yn gorfod eu datblygu. Rhaid inni sicrhau integreiddio priodol rhwng yr holl feysydd pwnc y mae awdurdodau lleol yn delio â hwy, gan sicrhau bod y cynlluniau hynny’n gweithio gyda’i gilydd ac yn dod i gasgliadau tebyg.

I will raise a few issues. First, it is important that we consider health impact statements as part of the planning process, not only for a particular type of application, but whenever they are required across the whole process. I would be grateful for your views on that.

Codaf ychydig o faterion. Yn gyntaf, mae’n bwysig inni ystyried datganiadau effaith iechyd fel rhan o’r broses gynllunio, nid yn unig ar gyfer math penodol o gais, ond pryd bynnag y bo’u hangen drwy’r broses gyfan. Byddwn yn ddiolchgar o gael eich barn am hynny.

Some councillors feel restricted by the current planning application process. Because planning is a semi-judicial process, local authorities have adopted guidelines, which mean that councillors feel that they are not able to represent their constituents as they have done in the past, and thus feel constrained. I would be grateful if you could investigate how councillors could work more effectively within such regimes. Many councils have introduced such regimes in the last few years, mostly to protect themselves in the case of appeal.

Mae rhai cynghorwyr yn teimlo eu bod wedi’u cyfyngu gan y broses ceisiadau cynllunio bresennol. Gan fod cynllunio’n broses led-farnwrol, mae awdurdodau lleol wedi mabwysiadu canllawiau, sy’n golygu bod cynghorwyr yn teimlo na allant gynrychioli eu hetholwyr fel y gwnaethant yn y gorffennol, ac yn teimlo eu bod wedi’u cyfyngu o’r herwydd. Byddwn yn ddiolchgar pe gallech ymchwilio i ddarganfod sut y gallai cynghorwyr weithio’n fwy effeithiol o fewn cyfundrefnau o’r fath. Mae llawer o gynghorau wedi cyflwyno cyfundrefnau o’r fath yn y blynyddoedd diwethaf, i’w hamddiffyn eu hun rhag ofn y bydd apêl gan mwyaf.

Today’s statement is important. We have talked about renewable energy as part of our sustainable development agenda, and technical advice note 8 is due to be published soon. How does this planning guidance fit in with TAN 8, and when will the technical advice note be published?

Mae datganiad heddiw’n un pwysig. Yr ydym wedi sôn am ynni adnewyddadwy fel rhan o’n hagenda datblygu cynaliadwy, ac mae nodyn cyngor technegol 8 i’w gyhoeddi cyn hir. Sut y mae’r canllawiau cynllunio hyn yn cyd-fynd â nodyn cyngor technegol 8, a pha bryd y cyhoeddir y nodyn cyngor technegol?

Sue Essex spoken in English p. 37

Sue Essex siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 37

You raise several issues. I agree that local authority decisions must be impartial. As regards the new development plans, because the community plans have been put in place by local government, the planning system will be freed up. Many of the matters included in the unitary development plans will now be covered in community plans. That is important. Community plans are a major development in terms of the interface between local authorities and their communities. As you have said, all the different plans and policies must be integrated. Development must be integrated. In particular, planning and transport must be integrated for development to make sense.

Yr ydych wedi codi sawl mater. Cytunaf fod yn rhaid i benderfyniadau awdurdodau lleol fod yn ddiduedd. Ynghylch y cynlluniau datblygu newydd, gan fod y cynlluniau cymunedol wedi’u sefydlu gan lywodraeth leol, bydd y system gynllunio’n cael ei rhyddhau. Caiff llawer o’r materion a geir yn y cynlluniau datblygu unedol eu cynnwys bellach mewn cynlluniau cymunedol. Mae hynny’n bwysig. Mae cynlluniau cymunedol yn ddatblygiad o bwys o ran y rhyngwyneb rhwng awdurdodau lleol a’u cymunedau. Fel y dywedasoch, rhaid integreiddio’r holl gynlluniau a pholisïau gwahanol. Rhaid integreiddio datblygu. Yn benodol, rhaid integreiddio cynllunio a thrafnidiaeth er mwyn i ddatblygu wneud synnwyr.

The consultation document contains a huge number of proposals. One point about the plans is that when the announcement is made that the local authorities are to do this, they must agree a timescale with the Assembly and they must also show that they have a community participation programme. Consultation on the development plans will take place at the outset so that communities will know what the timescale is and how they are to be involved.

Mae’r ddogfen ymgynghori’n cynnwys nifer fawr o gynigion. Un pwynt am y cynlluniau yw y bydd awdurdodau lleol, pan gyhoeddir y byddant yn gwneud hyn, yn gorfod cytuno ar amserlen gyda’r Cynulliad a rhaid iddynt hefyd ddangos bod ganddynt raglen cyfranogiad cymunedol. Ymgynghorir ar y cynlluniau datblygu ar y dechrau fel y bydd cymunedau’n gwybod beth yw’r amserlen a sut y maent i gymryd rhan.

Planners in development control freeze when health impact statements are mentioned. As you know, we are carrying out research on health and planning. There have been many high profile issues, but it is important that that research is completed so that we have a firm basis on which to go forward before we act or announce that we or local authorities need to do this or that.

Mae gwaed cynllunwyr rheoli datblygu yn rhewi pan sonnir am ddatganiadau effaith iechyd. Fel y gwyddoch, yr ydym yn cynnal ymchwil ar iechyd a chynllunio. Bu llawer o faterion a gafodd sylw mawr, ond mae’n bwysig cwblhau’r ymchwil honno fel bod gennym sylfaen gadarn i weithredu arni cyn inni gymryd camau neu gyhoeddi bod angen i ni neu awdurdodau lleol wneud hyn ac arall.

There are councillors in my constituency who are worried about even opening their mouths to talk about planning applications outside of committee. We must reconsider this issue. As part of the members’ training, which we want to ensure is consistent across Wales, we can review the guidelines to establish whether they are appropriate or whether they are too restrictive.

Mae cynghorwyr yn fy etholaeth i sy’n petruso cyn agor eu ceg hyd yn oed i sôn am geisiadau cynllunio y tu allan i’r pwyllgor. Rhaid inni ystyried y mater hwn. Fel rhan o’r hyfforddiant i aelodau, yr ydym am sicrhau ei fod yn gyson ledled Cymru, gallwn adolygu’r canllawiau i ddarganfod a ydynt yn briodol neu a ydynt yn rhy gyfyngol.

Your last point was about renewable energy, which is very much in the news at the moment. TAN 8 has been progressing and much work has been done on it. However, it refers to onshore windfarms, it refers to renewable energy across the board, not just windfarms. Central Government has recently issued a statement on the possibility of offshore windfarm development. There have been several proposals for such developments to be located off Welsh shores. I am interested in central Government’s approach to this matter, as it offers a new way forward and a different approach to the one that we have taken in the past. I am pleased to say that we have already commissioned some research, particularly on the planning aspects, to help us decide how we might deal with this issue. I am sure that Andrew Davies, Edwina Hart and other interested Ministers will pick up on the scope for developing offshore wind energy to see where we can take this in Wales.

Yr oedd y pwynt olaf a wnaethoch yn ymwneud ag ynni adnewyddadwy, sy’n amlwg yn y newyddion ar hyn o bryd. Bu cynnydd ar nodyn cyngor technegol 8 a gwnaed llawer o waith arno. Fodd bynnag, mae’n cyfeirio at ffermydd gwynt atraeth, at ynni adnewyddadwy’n gyffredinol, nid at ffermydd gwynt yn unig. Mae’r Llywodraeth ganolog wedi cyhoeddi datganiad yn ddiweddar ar y posibilrwydd o ddatblygu ffermydd gwynt alltraeth. Bu sawl cynnig ar gyfer lleoli datblygiadau o’r fath oddi ar arfordir Cymru. Ymddiddoraf yn agwedd y Llywodraeth ganolog at y mater hwn, gan ei bod yn cynnig ffordd newydd ymlaen a dull gweithredu sy’n wahanol i’r un yr ydym wedi’i ddilyn yn y gorffennol. Yr wyf yn falch o ddweud ein bod eisoes wedi comisiynu rhywfaint o ymchwil, ar yr agweddau cynllunio’n benodol, i’n helpu i benderfynu sut y gallem ymdrin â’r mater hwn. Yr wyf yn siŵr y bydd Andrew Davies, Edwina Hart a Gweinidogion eraill sydd â diddordeb yn hyn yn dilyn y posibiliadau ar gyfer datblygu ynni gwynt o’r lan i weld sut y gallwn fwrw ymlaen â hyn yng Nghymru.

Dafydd Elis-Thomas The Presiding Officer spoken in English p. 39

Dafydd Elis-Thomas Y Llywydd siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 39

We are already over time on this statement, and there is an equally important statement to follow later. However, I am reluctant to allow only the main party spokespeople to ask questions. Therefore I will extend the time for this statement by five minutes, but I ask for short questions and, if possible, brief answers from the Minister, which may be followed up by extensive correspondence.

Yr ydym eisoes wedi defnyddio’r amser ar gyfer y datganiad hwn, ac mae datganiad sydd yr un mor bwysig i ddilyn yn ddiweddarach. Fodd bynnag, yr wyf yn anfodlon caniatáu i ddim ond prif lefaryddion y pleidiau ofyn cwestiynau. Gan hynny, estynnaf yr amser ar gyfer y datganiad hwn o bum munud, ond gofynnaf am gwestiynau byr ac atebion byr, os oes modd, gan y Gweinidog, y gellid gohebu’n helaeth yn eu cylch wedyn.

Elin Jones siaradwyd yn Gymraeg t. 39

Elin Jones spoken in Welsh p. 39

Yr ydych wedi sôn am gael gwared â chynlluniau datblygu unedol, a chroesawaf hynny, ond gofynnaf ichi ddefnyddio’ch pwerau presennol i gael gwared ar y cynllun unedol a adneuwyd gan Gyngor Sir Ceredigion. Mae’r cyngor wedi anwybyddu’ch canllawiau ar asesu’r angen lleol am dai, ac ar fin peryglu dyfodol y Gymraeg fel iaith gymunedol—

You mentioned abolishing the unitary development plans, and I welcome that, but I urge you to use your existing powers to abolish the current unitary plan deposited by Ceredigion County Council. The council has ignored your guidelines on assessing the local need for housing, and is about to endanger the future of the Welsh language as a community language—

Dafydd Elis-Thomas Y Llywydd siaradwyd yn Gymraeg t. 39

Dafydd Elis-Thomas The Presiding Officer spoken in Welsh p. 39

Trefn. A gawn gwestiwn? Gwyddom beth mae Ceredigion yn ei wneud.

Order. May we have a question? We know what Ceredigion is doing.

Elin Jones siaradwyd yn Gymraeg t. 39

Elin Jones spoken in Welsh p. 39

Yr wyf wedi ysgrifennu atoch yn ddiweddar ar y mater hwn, ond a wnewch edrych o ddifrif ar y cynllun unedol hwn, ac ystyried galw i mewn adran dai y cynllun?

I have written to you recently about this matter, but will you look seriously at this unitary plan, and consider calling in the housing section of the plan?

Sue Essex spoken in English p. 39

Sue Essex siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 39

I take your point, but I could not answer that now. I will speak to you afterwards.

Yr wyf yn derbyn eich pwynt, ond ni allaf ateb hynny’n awr. Siaradaf â chi wedyn.

Richard Edwards spoken in English p. 40

Richard Edwards siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 40

I welcome your statement, and look forward to scrutinising the proposals in Committee in the new year. I raise an issue relating to restricted rights of third party appeal, in particular for those cases involving local authorities where there is a conflict of interest—and some Members have already raised this—or a departure from the local plan. Do you agree that an important principle of public access and democratic accountability is involved here and that there is a noticeable deficit at present, which means that people feel powerless to challenge blatant abuse of power by local authorities—I mention no names—thus bringing the entire planning system into disrepute?

Croesawaf eich datganiad, ac edrychaf ymlaen at graffu ar y cynigion yn y Pwyllgor yn y flwyddyn newydd. Codaf fater sy’n ymwneud â’r cyfyngiad ar yr hawliau i apelio gan drydydd parti, yn enwedig yn yr achosion hynny sy’n gysylltiedig ag awdurdodau lleol lle y mae gwrthdaro buddiannau—ac mae rhai o’r Aelodau wedi codi hyn eisoes—neu wyro oddi wrth y cynllun lleol. A ydych yn cytuno bod egwyddor bwysig o ran mynediad cyhoeddus ac atebolrwydd democrataidd yn gysylltiedig â hyn a bod diffyg amlwg ar hyn o bryd, sy’n golygu bod pobl yn teimlo’n analluog i herio camarfer amlwg ar bŵer gan awdurdodau lleol—nid wyf yn enwi neb—gan ddwyn anfri ar y system gynllunio gyfan?

Sue Essex spoken in English p. 40

Sue Essex siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 40

To take your question back a stage, this relates to the whole issue of how you allow people to access information and to have a voice and representation in the system. One of our proposals is to allow objectors or commentators to speak in planning committees. We did that in Cardiff, when I was a member of the local authority there some time ago. That allows the public to raise points that must then be addressed by the planning committee. The public must have greater confidence in the system and know that their points are heard and taken into account. It is not just a matter of being heard, but about getting a response.

Gan fynd â’ch cwestiwn gam yn ôl, mae hyn yn ymwneud â’r holl fater o’r modd y caniateir i bobl weld gwybodaeth a chael llais a chynrychiolaeth yn y system. Un o’n cynigion yw caniatáu i wrthwynebwyr neu sylwebyddion siarad mewn pwyllgorau cynllunio. Gwnaem hynny yng Nghaerdydd, pan oeddwn yn aelod o’r awdurdod lleol yno gryn amser yn ôl. Mae hynny’n caniatáu i’r cyhoedd godi pwyntiau y mae’n rhaid i’r pwyllgor cynllunio eu trin wedyn. Rhaid i’r cyhoedd ymddiried yn fwy yn y system a gwybod bod eu pwyntiau’n cael eu clywed a’u hystyried. Nid mater o gael eich clywed yn unig ydyw, ond o gael ymateb.

I have already covered the two particular points that you mentioned. I have mentioned public confidence in the system in cases where local authorities make decisions on major planning issues in which they have an interest. I have stuck to the ideas that are presented in the consultation paper. I am worried about departures, and I spoke about that earlier this afternoon. Where there are significant departures from the development plan, public confidence in the system disappears. Development plans are approved and go through a public inquiry process. People have had a chance to air their views and a decision has been made. Part of the answer is to speed up the development plan process, but possibly the Assembly should also be more involved when departures occur. That would have resources implications, but nevertheless, it is important in terms of public confidence. Once a proper development plan system is in place, I hope that we will see fewer departures that are not justified.

Yr wyf eisoes wedi ymdrin â’r ddau bwynt penodol y gwnaethoch eu crybwyll. Yr wyf wedi sôn am ymddiriedaeth y cyhoedd yn y system mewn achosion lle y mae awdurdodau lleol yn penderfynu ar faterion cynllunio o bwys y mae ganddynt fuddiant ynddynt. Yr wyf wedi glynu wrth y syniadau a gyflwynir yn y papur ymgynghori. Yr wyf yn pryderu ynghylch gwyriadau, a siaredais am hynny’n gynharach y prynhawn yma. Pan fo gwyriadau mawr oddi wrth y cynllun datblygu, mae ymddiriedaeth y cyhoedd yn y system yn diflannu. Caiff cynlluniau datblygu eu cymeradwyo ac maent yn mynd drwy broses ymchwiliad cyhoeddus. Mae pobl wedi cael cyfle i wyntyllu eu barn a gwnaed penderfyniad. Rhan o’r ateb yw cyflymu proses y cynllun datblygu, ond efallai y dylai’r Cynulliad gymryd mwy o ran pan fo gwyriadau. Byddai goblygiadau yn hynny o ran adnoddau, ond er hynny, mae’n bwysig yng nghyd-destun ymddiriedaeth y cyhoedd. Ar ôl rhoi system cynlluniau datblygu briodol ar waith, gobeithiaf y gwelwn lai o wyriadau nad oes cyfiawnhad drostynt.

Brian Hancock spoken in English p. 41

Brian Hancock siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 41

I welcome the report and your comments on local authority plans. I have two questions. There is a start date for the review of technical advice notes, but when will it be completed, as this has gone on for a long time now? Secondly, will improvements from a review of planning indicators include some measure of sustainable development, and most importantly, will there be some measure of the balance struck between economic development and environmental protection, because both should be in a win-win situation?

Croesawaf yr adroddiad a’ch sylwadau am gynlluniau awdurdod lleol. Mae gennyf ddau gwestiwn. Mae dyddiad dechrau ar gyfer adolygiad y nodiadau cyngor technegol, ond pa bryd y’i cwblheir, gan ei fod yn mynd ymlaen ers cryn amser bellach? Yn ail, a fydd gwelliannau ar ôl adolygiad o ddangosyddion cynllunio’n cynnwys rhyw fesur o ddatblygu cynaliadwy, ac yn bwysicaf oll, a fydd rhyw fesur o’r cydbwysedd a geir rhwng datblygu economaidd ac amddiffyn yr amgylchedd, gan y dylai’r ddau fod ar eu hennill?

Sue Essex spoken in English p. 41

Sue Essex siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 41

On your second point, planning indicators will assess performance; Janet also raised this point. Sustainable development is included in the policy and local authorities should base their recommendations on individual planning applications on that. We have a large number of technical advice notes, which are in various states of review. The total number is around 21, and they cover a vast range of issues. One that I think Members will be interested in is TAN 20 on the Welsh language. We have recently updated it, but there are some concerns that it is not always fully appreciated and that there are difficulties with its interpretation. I have accepted that we need to consider best practice. Research is ongoing, with local government and the Welsh Language Board in tow, which, while it will not necessarily be a review of that technical advice note, will help us to draw up a best practice document. That will help potential developers, local authorities and communities to interpret the TAN.

Ynghylch yr ail bwynt a wnaethoch, bydd y dangosyddion cynllunio’n asesu perfformiad; cododd Janet y pwynt hwn hefyd. Mae datblygu cynaliadwy wedi’i gynnwys yn y polisi a dylai awdurdodau lleol seilio eu hargymhellion ar geisiadau cynllunio unigol ar hwnnw. Mae gennym nifer fawr o nodiadau cyngor technegol, sydd ar wahanol gamau o gael eu hadolygu. Mae tua 21 i gyd, ac maent yn ymdrin ag amrediad eang o faterion. Un ohonynt y credaf y bydd Aelodau’n ymddiddori ynddo yw nodyn cyngor technegol 20 ar y Gymraeg. Gwnaethom ei ddiweddaru’n ddiweddar, ond mae rhai pryderon nad yw’n cael ei lwyr werthfawrogi bob amser a bod anawsterau o ran ei ddehongli. Yr wyf wedi derbyn bod angen inni ystyried yr arfer gorau. Mae ymchwil yn mynd ymlaen, gyda llywodraeth leol a Bwrdd yr Iaith Gymraeg, na fydd o reidrwydd yn adolygiad o’r nodyn cyngor technegol hwnnw, ond a fydd yn ein helpu i baratoi dogfen o’r arfer gorau. Bydd hynny’n helpu darpar ddatblygwyr, awdurdodau lleol a chymunedau i ddehongli’r nodyn cyngor technegol hwnnw.

David Ian Jones spoken in English p. 41

David Ian Jones siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 41

Minister, I want to ask you briefly about your proposals for planning gain obligations. At the moment, they cost developers around £2 billion in the UK. The proposal in England, as I understand it, is that local authorities should be able to set a tariff and negotiate additional site-specific amounts. That would amount to a double whammy of additional taxation. The Confederation of British Industry has suggested that it would amount to a tax on regeneration. I hope that you can assure the Assembly that this move will not be replicated in Wales.

Weinidog, dymunaf eich holi’n fyr ynghylch eich cynigion ar gyfer ymrwymiadau enillion cynllunio. Ar hyn o bryd, maent yn costio tua £2 biliwn i ddatblygwyr yn y DU. Yr hyn a gynigir yn Lloegr, fel yr wyf fi’n ei ddeall, yw y dylai awdurdodau lleol allu osod tariff a negodi symiau ychwanegol ar gyfer safleoedd penodol. Byddai hynny’n gyfystyr ag ergyd ddwbl o drethiant ychwanegol. Mae Cydffederasiwn Diwydiant Prydain wedi awgrymu y byddai’n golygu treth ar adfywio. Gobeithiaf y gallwch sicrhau’r Cynulliad nad efelychir y cam hwnnw yng Nghymru.

Sue Essex spoken in English p. 42

Sue Essex siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 42

We are working on this with the UK Government. There is a strong view that we need a complementary system if Wales is not to be disadvantaged. Crucially, most developers whom I have dealt with recognise that planning gain is legitimate, although they may not always be 100 per cent delighted with it. As long as obligations are known early enough, they can be accounted for in the development proposals and business plans. In Wales, I would like this to be more up-front, raised at an early stage and associated with particular community benefits. Potential developers can then clearly understand the requirements, and can build them into their business plans. Transparency is vital and that is the thrust behind how I would like planning obligations to develop in Wales.

Yr ydym yn gweithio ar hyn gyda Llywodraeth y DU. Mae barn bendant bod arnom angen system gyfatebol, os nad yw Cymru i fod dan anfantais. Yr hyn sy’n hollbwysig yw bod y rhan fwyaf o’r datblygwyr yr wyf wedi delio â hwy’n cydnabod bod enillion cynllunio’n beth teg, er nad ydynt bob amser wrth eu bodd â hynny o bosibl. Os yw’r ymrwymiadau’n hysbys yn ddigon cynnar, gellir darparu ar eu cyfer yn y cynigion datblygu a’r cynlluniau busnes. Yng Nghymru, carwn i hyn ddigwydd fwy o flaen llaw, ac iddo gael ei godi’n gynnar a’i gysylltu â buddion penodol i’r gymuned. Wedyn gall darpar ddatblygwyr ddeall y gofynion yn glir, a’u hymgorffori yn eu cynlluniau busnes. Mae tryloywder yn hollbwysig ac i’r cyfeiriad hwnnw yr hoffwn weld ymrwymiadau cynllunio’n datblygu yng Nghymru.

Datganiad Busnes

Business Statement

Carwyn Jones The Business Minister spoken in English p. 42

Carwyn Jones Y Trefnydd siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 42

There are no changes to report to this week’s business. As for the next three weeks’ business, the draft statement is as shown on the Chamberweb under supporting documents, with the addition of the motions to elect the Chairs of the Committee on Equality of Opportunity and the Committee on European and External Affairs.

Nid oes newidiadau y dylid adrodd arnynt i fusnes yr wythnos hon. Am fusnes y tair wythnos nesaf, mae’r datganiad drafft fel y’i dangosir ar we’r Siambr dan ddogfennau ategol, ar ôl ychwanegu’r cynigion i ethol Cadeiryddion y Pwyllgor Cyfle Cyfartal a’r Pwyllgor Materion Ewropeaidd ac Allanol.

Dafydd Elis-Thomas Y Llywydd siaradwyd yn Gymraeg t. 42

Dafydd Elis-Thomas The Presiding Officer spoken in Welsh p. 42

A oes gwrthwynebiad i’r datganiad busnes? Gwelaf fod. A oes 10 Aelod yn gwrthwynebu? Gwelaf fod. Gofynnaf felly i’r Trefnydd gynnig bod y datganiad busnes yn cael ei gymeradwyo.

Is there an objection to the business statement? I see that there is. Do 10 Members object? I see that they do. Therefore, I call the Business Minister to propose that the business statement be approved.

Carwyn Jones siaradwyd yn Gymraeg t. 42

Carwyn Jones spoken in Welsh p. 42

Cynigiaf fod

I propose that

Helen Mary Jones spoken in English p. 43

Helen Mary Jones siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 43

Plaid Cymru—the Party of Wales objects to this business statement, because we have been repeatedly promised a debate on the Government’s response to Committee recommendations on the future of the Welsh language, particularly those on education. The Government may maintain that these issues have been debated at length in Committee and, indeed, they have been. However, it is essential that the Assembly have the opportunity to debate not just the issues, but the Government’s response to them. We believe that having a statement on the matter is inadequate. There is real concern, particularly regarding the recommendations on education and the Government’s response to them.

Mae Plaid Cymru—the Party of Wales yn gwrthwynebu’r datganiad busnes hwn, am ein bod wedi cael addewid dro ar ôl tro o ddadl ar ymateb y Llywodraeth i argymhellion y Pwyllgor ar ddyfodol y Gymraeg, yn enwedig y rhai ar addysg. Gall y Llywodraeth haeru bod y materion hyn wedi’u trafod yn hirfaith yn y Pwyllgor, ac mae hynny’n wir. Er hynny, mae’n hollbwysig bod y Cynulliad yn cael cyfle i drafod nid yn unig y materion dan sylw, ond ymateb y Llywodraeth iddynt. Credwn mai annigonol yw cael datganiad ar y mater. Mae pryder gwirioneddol, yn enwedig ynghylch yr argymhellion ar addysg ac ymateb y Llywodraeth iddynt.

For example, in contrast to the budget for culture, there is no additional money in the education budget to cover this extra expenditure, and the suspicion is that the Minister for Education and Lifelong Learning did not even ask for additional money. We are concerned, and much of the public is concerned, as are those in the education sector. The Assembly should have an opportunity to scrutinise the Minister for Education and Lifelong Learning in this regard. She seems anxious to avoid scrutiny, but we are not content to see her slither away again from explaining her commitment—or lack of it—to actioning the Committee’s recommendations. Therefore, we oppose this business statement, and may find ourselves forced to continue to oppose it until a debate is timetabled.

Er enghraifft, yn wahanol i’r gyllideb ar gyfer diwylliant, nid oes arian ychwanegol yn y gyllideb addysg ar gyfer y gwariant ychwanegol hwn, ac amheuir na wnaeth y Gweinidog dros Addysg a Dysgu Gydol Oes hyd yn oed ofyn am arian ychwanegol. Yr ydym yn bryderus, ac mae llawer o blith y cyhoedd yn bryderus, fel y mae’r rhai yn y sector addysg. Dylai’r Cynulliad gael cyfle i holi’r Gweinidog dros Addysg a Dysgu Gydol Oes yn fanwl am hyn. Ymddengys yn awyddus i beidio â chael ei holi, ond nid ydym yn fodlon ei gweld yn ymlithro i ffwrdd eto rhag egluro ei hymrwymiad—neu ddiffyg ymrwymiad—i roi argymhellion y Pwyllgor ar waith. Gan hynny, gwrthwynebwn y datganiad busnes hwn, ac efallai y cawn ein bod yn gorfod dal i’w wrthwynebu hyd nes y caiff dadl ei hamserlennu.

William Graham spoken in English p. 43

William Graham siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 43

I have two questions for the Business Minister. First, when will he arrange a debate with the Minister for Culture, Sport and the Welsh Language regarding the allocation of seats for sale at the Millennium Stadium? Secondly—and more importantly—when will the Minister for Economic Development make a statement on the concerns about the steel industry in south-east Wales? I refer particularly to the move, announced yesterday, of the Whitehead works to Llanwern and today’s surprising news that staff at the Corus works at Llanwern are seeking urgent talks with their trade union representatives in respect of a possible further slim-down there. A statement is urgently needed.

Gofynnaf ddau gwestiwn i’r Trefnydd. Yn gyntaf, pa bryd y gwnaiff drefnu dadl gyda’r Gweinidog dros Ddiwylliant, Chwaraeon a’r Gymraeg ynghylch dyrannu seddau yn Stadiwm y Mileniwm? Yn ail—ac yn bwysicach—pa bryd y gwnaiff y Gweinidog dros Ddatblygu Economaidd ddatganiad ar y pryderon ynghylch y diwydiant dur yn y De-ddwyrain? Cyfeiriaf yn benodol at symud gwaith Whitehead i Lanwern, a gyhoeddwyd ddoe, a’r newyddion syfrdanol heddiw bod staff yng ngwaith Corus yn Llanwern yn ceisio trafodaethau brys â’u cynrychiolwyr undeb llafur ynghylch y posibilrwydd o docio pellach yn y fan honno. Mae angen datganiad ar frys.

Alun Pugh spoken in English p. 44

Alun Pugh siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 44

I do not make an objection but a request, Carwyn. Will you liaise with the Deputy First Minister and Minister for Rural Development and Wales Abroad to schedule a statement on Tir Gofal? I have met several farmers recently who have raised issues concerning Tir Gofal, including the budget, the scoring system and, in particular, the issue of landowner consents, which has Wales-wide implications.

Nid gwrthwynebiad sydd gennyf, Carwyn, ond cais. A gysylltwch â’r Dirprwy Brif Weinidog a’r Gweinidog dros Ddatblygu Gwledig a Chymru Dramor i amserlennu datganiad ar Tir Gofal? Cyfarfûm â sawl ffermwr yn ddiweddar a gododd faterion ynghylch Tir Gofal, gan gynnwys y gyllideb, y system sgorio ac, yn benodol, rhoi cydsyniadau gan berchnogion tir, y mae iddo oblygiadau ledled Cymru.

Carwyn Jones spoken in English p. 44

Carwyn Jones siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 44

First, to answer Alun’s point—the Deputy First Minister and Minister for Rural Development and Wales Abroad will have heard your remarks. Concerning the second request that William Graham made, the Minister for Economic Development is in the Chamber and will consider that request. William Graham’s first request concerned, I think, the allocation of seats in the Millennium Stadium—

Yn gyntaf, i ateb y pwynt a wnaeth Alun—bydd y Dirprwy Brif Weinidog a’r Gweinidog dros Ddatblygu Gwledig a Chymru Dramor wedi clywed eich sylwadau. Ynghylch yr ail gais a wnaeth William Graham, mae’r Gweinidog dros Ddatblygu Economaidd yn y Siambr a gwnaiff ystyried y cais hwnnw. Yr oedd cais cyntaf William Graham yn ymwneud, yr wyf yn credu, â dyrannu seddau yn Stadiwm y Mileniwm—

William Graham spoken in English p. 44

William Graham siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 44

The Millennium Centre.

Canolfan y Mileniwm.

Carwyn Jones spoken in English p. 44

Carwyn Jones siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 44

I heard you say ‘stadium’. We obviously need clarification on that. However, there are no plans to make a statement on that. Concerning the Government’s response to the Welsh language review, there will be a statement tomorrow, and time for that statement has been extended. Following that statement, further consideration will be given to how Plenary may be consulted on that review in future. Finally, I am sure that objections to the business statement will continue until the election.

Fe’ch clywais yn dweud ‘stadiwm’. Mae’n amlwg bod arnom angen eglurhad ar hynny. Fodd bynnag, nid oes bwriad i wneud datganiad ar hynny. Ynghylch ymateb y Llywodraeth i’r adolygiad o’r Gymraeg, bydd datganiad yfory ac mae’r amser ar gyfer y datganiad hwnnw wedi’i estyn. Ar ôl y datganiad hwnnw, rhoddir ystyriaeth bellach i’r modd y gellir ymgynghori â’r Cyfarfod Llawn ar yr adolygiad hwnnw yn y dyfodol. Yn olaf, yr wyf yn siŵr y bydd y gwrthwynebiadau i’r datganiad busnes yn parhau tan yr etholiad.

Dafydd Elis-Thomas Y Llywydd siaradwyd yn Gymraeg t. 44

Dafydd Elis-Thomas The Presiding Officer spoken in Welsh p. 44

Galwaf am bleidlais.

I call for a vote.

Nick Bourne spoken in English p. 44

Nick Bourne siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 44

I request that the division bell be rung.

Gofynnaf am ganu cloch y bleidlais.

Dafydd Elis-Thomas The Presiding Officer spoken in English p. 44

Dafydd Elis-Thomas Y Llywydd siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 44

A request has been made for the bell to be rung. Under Standing Order No. 6.21, at least three Members must request that the bell be rung. Do three Members support the request? I see that they do. Clerk, please ring the bell.

Gwnaed cais am ganu cloch y bleidlais. O dan Reol Sefydlog Rhif 6.21, rhaid i o leiaf dri Aelod wneud cais am ganu cloch y bleidlais. A oes tri Aelod sy’n cefnogi’r cais? Gwelaf fod. Glerc, cenwch y gloch, os gwelwch yn dda.

Cynnig Carwyn Jones t. 45

Motion Carwyn Jones p. 45

DerbyniwydAdopted O blaidFor 31 YmatalAbstain 0 Yn erbynAgainst 22

Derbyniwyd y cynnig.

Motion carried.

Sut y pleidleisiodd yr AelodauHow Members voted
O blaidFor (31)
  • Lorraine Barrett
  • Mick Bates
  • Rosemary Butler
  • Christine Chapman
  • Jane Davidson
  • Andrew Davies
  • Ron Davies
  • Richard Edwards
  • Sue Essex
  • Delyth Evans
  • Michael German
  • Brian Gibbons
  • Janice Gregory
  • John Griffiths
  • Christine Gwyther
  • Alison Halford
  • Edwina Hart
  • Jane Hutt
  • Ann Jones
  • Carwyn Jones
  • Peter Law
  • Huw Lewis
  • Val Lloyd
  • Tom Middlehurst
  • Rhodri Morgan
  • Lynne Neagle
  • Alun Pugh
  • Jenny Randerson
  • Karen Sinclair
  • Gwenda Thomas
  • Kirsty Williams
Yn erbynAgainst (22)
  • Nick Bourne
  • Alun Cairns
  • Cynog Dafis
  • David Davies
  • Geraint Davies
  • Janet Davies
  • Jocelyn Davies
  • William Graham
  • Brian Hancock
  • David Ian Jones
  • Elin Jones
  • Gareth Jones
  • Helen Mary Jones
  • Ieuan Wyn Jones
  • David Lloyd
  • Jonathan Morgan
  • Peter Rogers
  • Janet Ryder
  • Owen John Thomas
  • Rhodri Glyn Thomas
  • Dafydd Wigley
  • Phil Williams

Penderfyniadau gan y Dirprwy Lywydd o dan Reol Sefydlog Rhif 22.5

Determinations by the Deputy Presiding Officer under Standing Order No. 22.5

Carwyn Jones The Business Minister spoken in English p. 45

Carwyn Jones Y Trefnydd siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 45

Following the Business Committee’s meeting this morning, the Deputy Presiding Officer determined that, under Standing Order No. 22.5, the following items of legislation need not be referred to a Subject Committee for extended consideration: the Genetically Modified Organisms (Deliberate Release) (Wales) Regulations 2002; the Inspection of Boarding Schools and Colleges (Powers and Fees) (Wales) Regulations 2002; the National Health Service (Pharmaceutical Services) and (General Medical Services) (Amendment) (Wales) Regulations 2002; the Welsh Administration Ombudsman (Jurisdiction) Order 2002; the Street Works (Inspection Fees) (Amendment) (Wales) Regulations 2002; the Air Quality (Amendment) (Wales) Regulations 2002; the Housing (Right to Acquire and Right to Buy) (Designated Rural Areas and Designated Regions) (Wales) Order 2003; the Health, Social Care and Well-being Strategies (Wales) Regulations 2003; the Local Health Boards (Establishment) (Wales) Order 2003; the Local Health Boards (Constitution, Membership and Procedures) (Wales) Regulations 2003; and the Local Health Boards (Functions) (Wales) 2003.

Ar ôl cyfarfod y Pwyllgor Busnes y bore yma, penderfynodd y Dirprwy Lywydd, o dan Reol Sefydlog Rhif 22.5, nad oes angen cyfeirio’r eitemau canlynol o ddeddfwriaeth i Bwyllgor Pwnc i’w hystyried yn helaethach: Rheoliadau Organeddau a Addaswyd yn Enetig (Eu Gollwng yn Fwriadol) (Cymru) 2002; Rheoliadau Arolygu Ysgolion a Cholegau Byrddio (Pwerau a Ffioedd) (Cymru) 2002; Rheoliadau’r Gwasanaeth Iechyd Gwladol (Gwasanaethau Fferyllol) a (Gwasanaethau Meddygol Cyffredinol) (Diwygio) (Cymru) 2002; Gorchymyn Ombwdsmon Gweinyddiaeth Cymru (Awdurdodaeth) 2002; Rheoliadau Gweithfeydd Stryd (Ffïoedd Archwilio) (Diwygio) (Cymru) 2002; Rheoliadau Ansawdd Aer (Diwygio) (Cymru) 2002; Gorchymyn Tai (Hawl i Gaffael a Hawl i Brynu) (Ardaloedd Gwledig Dynodedig a Rhanbarthau Dynodedig) (Cymru) 2003; Rheoliadau Strategaethau Iechyd, Gofal Cymdeithasol a Llesiant (Cymru) 2003; Gorchymyn Byrddau Iechyd Lleol (Sefydlu) (Cymru) 2003; Rheoliadau Byrddau Iechyd Lleol (Cyfansoddiad, Aelodaeth a Gweithdrefnau) (Cymru) 2003; a Rheoliadau’r Byrddau Iechyd Lleol (Swyddogaethau) 2003.

The Deputy Presiding Officer also determined, under Standing Order No. 22.5, that the Education Act 2002 (Commencement No. 1) (Wales) Order 2002 should be referred to the Education and Lifelong Learning Committee for extended consideration. Further to that determination, Presiding Officer, your office has been notified that it is my intention, under Standing Order No. 5.8, to object to the Deputy Presiding Officer’s determination that this Order be referred to the Committee for extended consideration. I put forward that objection now.

Penderfynodd y Dirprwy Lywydd hefyd, o dan Reol Sefydlog Rhif 22.5, y dylid cyfeirio Gorchymyn Deddf Addysg 2002 (Cychwyn Rhif 1) (Cymru) 2002 i’r Pwyllgor Addysg a Dysgu Gydol Oes i’w ystyried yn helaethach. Ymhellach i’r penderfyniad hwnnw, Lywydd, hysbyswyd eich swyddfa ei fod yn fwriad gennyf, o dan Reol Sefydlog Rhif 5.8, wrthwynebu penderfyniad y Dirprwy Lywydd y dylid cyfeirio’r Gorchymyn hwn i’r Pwyllgor i’w ystyried yn helaethach. Cyflwynaf y gwrthwynebiad hwnnw’n awr.

Dafydd Elis-Thomas Y Llywydd siaradwyd yn Gymraeg t. 46

Dafydd Elis-Thomas The Presiding Officer spoken in Welsh p. 46

Cafwyd gwrthwynebiad o dan Reol Sefydlog Rhif 5.8. A oes 10 Aelod yn gwrthwynebu’r penderfyniad ynglŷn â Gorchymyn Deddf Addysg 2002 (Cychwyn Rhif 1) (Cymru) 2002? Gwelaf fod 10 Aelod yn gwrthwynebu. Galwaf felly ar y Trefnydd i gynnig cynnig yn ffurfiol.

An objection has been made under Standing Order No. 5.8. Do 10 Members object to the determination regarding the Education Act 2002 (Commencement No. 1) (Wales) Order 2002? I see that there are. I therefore call the Business Minister to formally propose a motion.

Carwyn Jones The Business Minister spoken in English p. 46

Carwyn Jones Y Trefnydd siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 46

I propose that

Cynigiaf fod

Dafydd Elis-Thomas Y Llywydd siaradwyd yn Gymraeg t. 46

Dafydd Elis-Thomas The Presiding Officer spoken in Welsh p. 46

Caniateir i un Aelod o bob grŵp gwleidyddol siarad ar y cynnig hwn.

One Member of each party group may speak to this motion.

Jocelyn Davies spoken in English p. 46

Jocelyn Davies siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 46

Carwyn, I ask you to reconsider your objection to this Order being referred to the Education and Lifelong Learning Committee. You were present when we discussed this matter this morning. The Conservative group requested that the Order be referred to Committee because the group’s party business manager thought that there were policy considerations to be discussed in Committee. I looked at the record of the Plenary debate held on 16 October on the Education Act 2002. Plaid Cymru tabled an amendment to the motion requesting that all subordinate legislation flowing from this Act should receive full scrutiny by the Subject Committee. The Minister for Education and Lifelong Learning asked us to withdraw our amendment on that occasion, assuring us that all subordinate legislation would receive full scrutiny by the Committee—[Interruption.] She did. You can look it up in the Record of Proceedings. Now, following a request to refer legislation to the Subject Committee for scrutiny, we find that the Government objects to it.

Carwyn, gofynnaf ichi ailystyried eich gwrthwynebiad i gyfeirio’r Gorchymyn hwn i’r Pwyllgor Addysg a Dysgu Gydol Oes. Yr oeddech yn bresennol pan wnaethom drafod y mater hwn y bore yma. Gwnaeth y grŵp Ceidwadol gais am gyfeirio’r Gorchymyn i’r Pwyllgor am fod trefnydd busnes plaid y grŵp o’r farn bod ystyriaethau polisi i’w trafod yn y Pwyllgor. Yr wyf wedi edrych ar y cofnod o’r ddadl yn y Cyfarfod Llawn a gynhaliwyd ar 16 Hydref ar y Ddeddf Addysg 2002. Cyflwynodd Plaid Cymru welliant i’r cynnig yn gofyn am i’r holl is-ddeddfwriaeth a ddeilliai o’r Ddeddf hon gael ei harchwilio’n llawn gan y Pwyllgor Pwnc. Gofynnodd y Gweinidog dros Addysg a Dysgu Gydol Oes inni dynnu ein gwelliant yn ôl bryd hynny, gan ein sicrhau y caiff yr holl is-ddeddfwriaeth ei harchwilio’n llawn gan y Pwyllgor—[Torri ar draws.] Gwnaeth hynny. Gallwch chwilio am hynny yng Nghofnod y Trafodion. Yn awr, ar ôl cais i gyfeirio deddfwriaeth i’r Pwyllgor Pwnc i’w harchwilio, cawn fod y Llywodraeth yn gwrthwynebu hynny.

Jonathan Morgan spoken in English p. 47

Jonathan Morgan siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 47

This sets a dangerous precedent. The governing parties wish to disregard the determination that the Deputy Presiding Officer has made with regard to this Order. It sets a precedent in that, if the Government does not like what is happening in terms of scrutiny of secondary legislation, it can use its majority to reject it.

Mae hyn yn gosod cynsail beryglus. Mae’r pleidiau llywodraethol yn dymuno diystyru’r penderfyniad a wnaeth y Dirprwy Lywydd mewn cysylltiad â’r Gorchymyn hwn. Mae’n gosod cynsail oherwydd os nad yw’r Llywodraeth yn hoffi’r hyn sy’n digwydd o ran craffu ar ddeddfwriaeth eilaidd, gall ddefnyddio’i mwyafrif i’w wrthod.

I will explain why I feel that this legislation should be referred to the Subject Committee. I accept that this is a Commencement Order and that we cannot, in a strict sense, change the legislation, because it relates to an Act that applies to England and Wales. My particular concern with this Order relates to section 49 of the Education Act 2002. Section 49 removes an existing provision in section 91 of the Schools Standards and Framework Act 1998, which allows voluntary-aided schools that have a religious character, namely church or faith-based schools, to set their admissions policies to preserve the religious character of the school. The Education Act 2002 repeals the provision set out in section 91 of the Schools Standards and Framework Act 1998.

Egluraf pam y teimlaf y dylid cyfeirio’r ddeddfwriaeth hon i’r Pwyllgor Pwnc. Derbyniaf mai Gorchymyn Cychwyn yw hwn ac na allwn newid y ddeddfwriaeth, a bod yn fanwl, am ei bod yn ymwneud â Deddf sy’n berthnasol i Gymru a Lloegr. Mae’r pryder penodol sydd gennyf ynghylch y Gorchymyn hwn yn ymwneud ag adran 49 o’r Ddeddf Addysg 2002. Mae adran 49 yn dileu darpariaeth sy’n bodoli yn adran 91 o’r Ddeddf Safonau a Fframwaith Ysgolion 1998, sy’n caniatáu i ysgolion a gynorthwyir yn wirfoddol sydd â chymeriad crefyddol, sef ysgolion eglwys neu ysgolion sy’n seiliedig ar grefydd, bennu eu polisïau derbyn i ddiogelu cymeriad crefydd yr ysgol. Mae’r Ddeddf Addysg 2002 yn diddymu’r ddarpariaeth a nodir yn adran 91 o’r Ddeddf Safonau a Fframwaith Ysgolion 1998.

The commencement Order should be referred to Committee because the original Education Bill was quite different from the Act. Section 48 and schedule 4 to the original Bill seek to amend, not repeal, section 91 of the Schools Standards and Framework Act 1998 and was merely tweaking. Somewhere in the parliamentary process, the Government in Westminster changed its mind and, instead of merely amending a small part of section 91 of the School Standards and Framework Act 1998, decided to repeal it. My concern is that, when the Minister for Education and Lifelong Learning made her statement to Plenary in January of this year outlining the various changes to the Bill that had occurred during the Committee stages in the House of Commons, no reference was made to this change from what was the intention in the original draft of the Bill to what was in the Act when it received Royal Assent in July this year. The Minister did not inform us about that in Plenary or in Committee.

Dylid cyfeirio’r Gorchymyn cychwyn i’r Pwyllgor gan fod y Mesur Addysg gwreiddiol yn wahanol iawn i’r Ddeddf. Mae adran 48 ac atodlen 4 i’r Mesur gwreiddiol yn ceisio newid, nid diddymu, adran 91 o’r Ddeddf Safonau a Fframwaith Ysgolion 1998 ac nid oedd ond yn fân newid. Rywle yn y broses seneddol, gwnaeth y Llywodraeth yn San Steffan newid ei meddwl ac, yn hytrach na dim ond newid rhan fach o adran 91 o’r Ddeddf Safonau a Fframwaith Ysgolion 1998, penderfynodd ei diddymu. Y pryder sydd gennyf yw, pan wnaeth y Gweinidog dros Addysg a Dysgu Gydol Oes ei datganiad yn y Cyfarfod Llawn yn Ionawr eleni yn amlinellu’r gwahanol newidiadau i’r Mesur a fu yn ystod camau’r Pwyllgor yn Nhŷ’r Cyffredin, na chyfeiriwyd at y newid hwn oddi wrth yr hyn a fwriadwyd yn nrafft gwreiddiol y Mesur i’r hyn a oedd yn y Ddeddf pan gafodd Gydsyniad y Frenhines yng Ngorffennaf eleni. Ni roddodd y Gweinidog wybod inni am hynny yn y Cyfarfod Llawn neu yn y Pwyllgor.

Section 49 of the Education Act 2002 will completely destroy the ability of church schools in Wales, whether Catholic or Anglican, to set their admissions policies to preserve the religious character and Christian ethos of those schools. There is currently a proviso that gives those church schools 75 per cent protection and enables them to state in their admissions criteria that being part of the Christian community is almost a pre-requisite for attending that school. This new provision will cripple church schools in Wales, whether Catholic or Anglican, by preventing them from doing that. The Minister must explain to Committee what guidance she will bring into force next year on admissions policies for those schools because, from my reading of the Act, the admissions policies of church schools in Wales will be almost identical to those of maintained schools in Wales. Therefore, what difference will there be between church schools and maintained schools? This is dangerous. It is dangerous for our church schools and in terms of how the Government is handling this matter today, because the Assembly has not given this legislation proper scrutiny. The Minister did not inform us of this fundamental departure from the intention stated in section 48 and schedule 4 of the original Bill to what is in section 49 of the Act of Parliament as it currently stands. We were not informed of this in Plenary or Committee. The Education and Lifelong Learning Committee should consider the Order so that the Committee can learn what guidelines the Minister intends to produce next year on implementing these provisions. I object to the Government’s motion. It sets a dangerous precedent, and we should ensure that the Subject Committee scrutinises this Order as rigorously as possible.

Bydd adran 49 o’r Ddeddf Addysg 2002 yn llwyr ddinistrio gallu ysgolion yr eglwys yng Nghymru, boed hwy’n Gatholig neu’n Anglicanaidd, i osod eu polisïau derbyn i gadw cymeriad crefyddol ac ethos Cristnogol yr ysgolion hynny. Mae profiso ar hyn o bryd sy’n rhoi 75 y cant o amddiffyniad i’r ysgolion eglwys hynny ac yn eu galluogi i ddatgan yn eu meini prawf ar gyfer derbyn ei bod bron yn hanfodol bod yn rhan o gymuned Gristnogol er mwyn cael mynd i’r ysgol honno. Bydd y ddarpariaeth newydd hon yn andwyo ysgolion eglwys yng Nghymru, boed hwy’n Gatholig neu’n Anglicanaidd, drwy eu hatal rhag gwneud hynny. Rhaid i’r Gweinidog egluro i’r Pwyllgor pa gyfarwyddyd y bydd yn ei roi mewn grym y flwyddyn nesaf ar bolisïau derbyn ar gyfer yr ysgolion hynny oherwydd, yn ôl fy nehongliad i o’r Ddeddf, bydd polisïau derbyn ysgolion eglwys yng Nghymru bron yr un fath â rhai ysgolion cynaledig yng Nghymru. Felly, pa wahaniaeth a fydd rhwng ysgolion eglwys ac ysgolion cynaledig? Mae hyn yn beryglus. Mae’n beryglus i’n hysgolion eglwys ac o ran y modd y mae’r Llywodraeth yn trafod y mater hwn heddiw, oherwydd nid yw’r Cynulliad wedi archwilio’r ddeddfwriaeth hon yn briodol. Ni roddodd y Gweinidog wybod inni am y gwyriad sylfaenol hwn oddi wrth y bwriad a nodir yn adran 48 ac atodlen 4 y Mesur gwreiddiol i’r hyn a geir yn adran 49 o’r Ddeddf seneddol fel y mae’n awr. Ni chawsom wybod am hyn yn y Cyfarfod Llawn neu’r Pwyllgor. Dylai’r Pwyllgor Addysg a Dysgu Gydol Oes ystyried y Gorchymyn fel y gall y Pwyllgor gael gwybod pa ganllawiau y mae’r Gweinidog yn bwriadu eu cynhyrchu y flwyddyn nesaf ar weithredu’r darpariaethau hyn. Gwrthwynebaf gynnig y Llywodraeth. Mae’n gosod cynsail beryglus, a dylem sicrhau bod y Pwyllgor Pwnc yn archwilio’r Gorchymyn hwn mor drwyadl ag y bo modd.

Kirsty Williams spoken in English p. 49

Kirsty Williams siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 49

I regret that I was not present for the discussions in the Business Committee meeting this morning, but I have discussed the issue with the Business Minister, the Conservative Party’s business manager and the Liberal Democrats’ education spokesperson. I understand from talking to the Liberal Democrats’ education spokesperson that the Committee has had many opportunities to discuss issues relating to this legislation and that a list of proposed secondary legislation arising from this Act was put before the Committee. I sympathise with Committee members in that it is difficult to pick out individual measures from the extremely long lists of secondary legislation put before them. Also, given the constraints on Committee timetables, it is difficult to spend much time discussing legislation in Committee. However, I understand that the list was put before the Education and Lifelong Learning Committee, and that no request to discuss the legislation was identified at the time. I suggest that that was the place to draw attention to the need for further debate and scrutiny of secondary legislation. Also, an hour of Plenary time has been allocated later this term to discuss these issues.

Mae’n ddrwg gennyf nad oeddwn yn bresennol ar gyfer y trafodaethau yn y Pwyllgor Busnes y bore yma, ond yr wyf wedi trafod y mater gyda’r Trefnydd, trefnydd busnes y Blaid Geidwadol a llefarydd y Democratiaid Rhyddfrydol ar addysg. Deallaf ar ôl siarad â llefarydd y Democratiaid Rhyddfrydol ar addysg fod y Pwyllgor wedi cael llawer o gyfleoedd i drafod materion sy’n ymwneud â’r ddeddfwriaeth hon a bod rhestr o ddeddfwriaeth eilaidd arfaethedig sy’n deillio o’r Ddeddf hon wedi’i rhoi gerbron y Pwyllgor. Cydymdeimlaf ag aelodau’r Pwyllgor i’r graddau ei bod yn anodd didol mesurau unigol o’r rhestrau hir iawn o ddeddfwriaeth eilaidd a roddir ger eu bron. Hefyd, o ystyried y cyfyngiadau ar amserlenni Pwyllgor, mae’n anodd treulio llawer o amser yn trafod deddfwriaeth yn y Pwyllgor. Er hynny, deallaf fod y rhestr wedi’i rhoi gerbron y Pwyllgor Addysg a Dysgu Gydol Oes, ac na nodwyd cais i drafod y ddeddfwriaeth bryd hynny. Awgrymaf mai yn y fan honno y dylid bod wedi tynnu sylw at yr angen am ddadl a chraffu pellach ar ddeddfwriaeth eilaidd. Hefyd, mae awr o amser y Cyfarfod Llawn wedi’i neilltuo yn ddiweddarach y tymor hwn i drafod y materion hyn.

It is important to note that the legislation concerned is a commencement Order. Jonathan has said that his concerns are about what guidance the Minister will produce. There is nothing in the commencement Order to stop the Education and Lifelong Learning Committee discussing, in detail, any proposed guidance from the Minister for Education and Lifelong Learning. These are important issues, but now is not the time to undermine the entire process by asking for this commencement Order to go back—[ASSEMBLY MEMBERS: ‘What about scrutiny?’] You should have asked in Committee.

Mae’n bwysig nodi mai Gorchymyn cychwyn yw’r ddeddfwriaeth dan sylw. Dywedodd Jonathan fod ei bryderon yn ymwneud â pha gyfarwyddyd y bydd y Gweinidog yn ei gynhyrchu. Nid oes dim yn y Gorchymyn cychwyn i atal y Pwyllgor Addysg a Dysgu Gydol Oes rhag trafod, yn fanwl, unrhyw gyfarwyddyd arfaethedig oddi wrth y Gweinidog dros Addysg a Dysgu Gydol Oes. Materion pwysig yw’r rhain, ond nid hon yw’r adeg i danseilio’r holl broses drwy ofyn am roi’r Gorchymyn cychwyn hwn yn ôl—[AELODAU CYNULLIAD: ‘Beth am archwilio?’] Dylech fod wedi gofyn yn y Pwyllgor.

Carwyn Jones The Business Minister spoken in English p. 50

Carwyn Jones Y Trefnydd siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 50

It seems that the complaint is with the primary legislation, not the commencement Order. The legislation was first discussed in Chamber in January and received Royal Assent in July. Now the Tories have realised that they have made a mistake and have missed the bus. This legislation came before the Committee on 24 October, when Members were invited to comment and, as I understand it, bring forward proposals on which subordinate legislation to debate at the next Committee meeting. Nobody suggested debating this Order at the time; no comment was made about this legislation. On 7 November, Jonathan Morgan made four requests for extended consideration of secondary legislation; this Order was not included in those requests. After the Committee discussed those requests, he withdrew them.

Ymddengys fod y gŵyn yn ymwneud â’r ddeddfwriaeth sylfaenol, nid y Gorchymyn cychwyn. Trafodwyd y ddeddfwriaeth yn gyntaf yn y Siambr yn Ionawr a chafodd Gydsyniad y Frenhines yng Ngorffennaf. Mae’r Torïaid wedi sylweddoli bellach eu bod wedi gwneud camgymeriad ac wedi colli cyfle. Daeth y ddeddfwriaeth gerbron y Pwyllgor ar 24 Hydref, pan wahoddwyd yr Aelodau i wneud sylw ac, fel yr wyf fi’n ei ddeall, i ddwyn cynigion gerbron ynghylch pa is-ddeddfwriaeth y dylid ei thrafod yng nghyfarfod nesaf y Pwyllgor. Nid awgrymodd neb bryd hynny y dylid trafod y Gorchymyn hwn; ni wnaed unrhyw sylw am y ddeddfwriaeth hon. Ar 7 Tachwedd, gwnaeth Jonathan Morgan bedwar cais am ystyriaeth estynedig i ddeddfwriaeth eilaidd; nid oedd y Gorchymyn hwn wedi’i gynnwys yn y ceisiadau hynny. Wedi i’r Pwyllgor drafod y ceisiadau hynny, fe’u tynnodd yn ôl.

Despite the fact that this legislation has been before the Committee on no less than two occasions, nobody, on either occasion, asked for the legislation to be considered—

Er bod y ddeddfwriaeth hon wedi bod gerbron y Pwyllgor o leiaf ddwy waith, ni ofynnodd neb, y naill dro neu’r llall, am ystyried y ddeddfwriaeth—

Jonathan Morgan spoken in English p. 50

Jonathan Morgan siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 50

Will you give way?

A wnewch ildio?

Carwyn Jones spoken in English p. 50

Carwyn Jones siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 50

No; you have had plenty of say on this matter. In any event, there is a Plenary debate on this Order on 17 December, and an hour has been set aside for it. The Committee has been asked twice whether it wants to consider this Order, and on 17 December—

Na wnaf; cawsoch ddweud digon ar y mater hwn. Beth bynnag, bydd dadl yn y Cyfarfod Llawn ar y Gorchymyn hwn ar 17 Rhagfyr, a neilltuwyd awr ar ei chyfer. Gofynnwyd ddwywaith i’r Pwyllgor a oedd yn dymuno ystyried y Gorchymyn hwn, ac ar 17 Rhagfyr—

Jonathan Morgan spoken in English p. 50

Jonathan Morgan siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 50

Will you give way?

A wnewch ildio?

Dafydd Elis-Thomas The Presiding Officer spoken in English p. 50

Dafydd Elis-Thomas Y Llywydd siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 50

Order. The Minister is not giving way.

Trefn. Nid yw’r Gweinidog yn ildio.

Carwyn Jones spoken in English p. 50

Carwyn Jones siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 50

On 17 December, an hour has been allocated to debate this matter. The Order must be in place by that time for the Assembly to acquire the powers contained in the Act. You have missed the bus and you are taking this opportunity to try to catch it. Given that, in the interests of democracy, an hour has been set aside for the debate, the Government stands by its proposal to reverse the Deputy Presiding Officer’s determination.

Ar 17 Rhagfyr, mae awr wedi’i neilltuo i drafod y mater hwn. Rhaid i’r Gorchymyn fod ar waith erbyn hynny i’r Cynulliad gael y pwerau a geir yn y Ddeddf. Yr ydych wedi colli’ch cyfle ac yr ydych yn ceisio gwneud iawn am hynny’n awr. Gan fod awr wedi’i neilltuo ar gyfer y ddadl, er mwyn democratiaeth, mae’r Llywodraeth yn cadw at ei gynnig i wrthdroi penderfyniad y Dirprwy Lywydd.

Nick Bourne spoken in English p. 51

Nick Bourne siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 51

I request that the division bell be rung.

Gofynnaf am ganu cloch y bleidlais.

Dafydd Elis-Thomas The Presiding Officer spoken in Welsh and English p. 51

Dafydd Elis-Thomas Y Llywydd siaradwyd yn Gymraeg ac yn Saesneg t. 51

Order. I have not yet called for the vote.

yn Saesneg Trefn. Nid wyf wedi galw am y bleidlais eto.

Galwaf felly am bleidlais ar y cynnig bod penderfyniad y Dirprwy Lywydd yn cael ei wrthdroi. Mae cais wedi’i wneud i ganu’r gloch. O dan Reol Sefydlog Rhif 6.21, rhaid i o leiaf dri Aelod wneud cais i’r gloch gael ei chanu. A oes tri Aelod yn cefnogi’r cais? Gwelaf fod tri Aelod. Glerc, canwch y gloch.

in Welsh I therefore call for a vote on the proposal that the Deputy Presiding Officer’s determination be reversed. A request has been made for the bell to be rung. Under Standing Order No. 6.21, at least three Members must request that the bell be rung. Do three Members support the request? I see that they do. Clerk, please ring the bell.

Cynnig Carwyn Jones t. 51

Motion Carwyn Jones p. 51

DerbyniwydAdopted O blaidFor 32 YmatalAbstain 15 Yn erbynAgainst 7

Derbyniwyd y cynnig.

Motion carried.

Sut y pleidleisiodd yr AelodauHow Members voted
O blaidFor (32)
  • Lorraine Barrett
  • Mick Bates
  • Peter Black
  • Rosemary Butler
  • Christine Chapman
  • Jane Davidson
  • Andrew Davies
  • Ron Davies
  • Richard Edwards
  • Sue Essex
  • Delyth Evans
  • Michael German
  • Brian Gibbons
  • Janice Gregory
  • John Griffiths
  • Christine Gwyther
  • Alison Halford
  • Edwina Hart
  • Jane Hutt
  • Ann Jones
  • Carwyn Jones
  • Peter Law
  • Huw Lewis
  • Val Lloyd
  • Tom Middlehurst
  • Rhodri Morgan
  • Lynne Neagle
  • Alun Pugh
  • Jenny Randerson
  • Karen Sinclair
  • Gwenda Thomas
  • Kirsty Williams
YmatalAbstain (15)
  • Cynog Dafis
  • Geraint Davies
  • Janet Davies
  • Jocelyn Davies
  • Brian Hancock
  • Elin Jones
  • Gareth Jones
  • Helen Mary Jones
  • Ieuan Wyn Jones
  • David Lloyd
  • Janet Ryder
  • Owen John Thomas
  • Rhodri Glyn Thomas
  • Dafydd Wigley
  • Phil Williams
Yn erbynAgainst (7)
  • Nick Bourne
  • Alun Cairns
  • David Davies
  • William Graham
  • David Ian Jones
  • Jonathan Morgan
  • Peter Rogers

Pwyntiau o Drefn

Points of Order

Nick Bourne spoken in English p. 52

Nick Bourne siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 52

Point of order. This concerns the ministerial visit to Fishguard that the Member for Mid and West Wales, Cynog Dafis, referred to earlier. Following an earlier meeting across all communities that I had with Dewhirst workers and members of Fishguard town council, I had encouraged the Minister for Economic Development to visit the area. Notification then came through some five months after the workers had lost their jobs that a meeting was to be held at the Railwaymen’s Club, Fishguard. The residents and councillors of Fishguard were under the impression that all Assembly Members would be invited to the meeting. I understand that Cynog was invited at the last minute when he made it clear that he would attend anyway. The meeting was used as a Labour Party away day. All the publicity for the meeting included pictures of the prospective candidate for the local seat, the Minister, who is the local Assembly Member, and the local Member of Parliament. All Assembly Members should have been invited to the meeting and it should not have been used as an opportunity to advertise party political candidates in the forthcoming Assembly elections, as was clearly the case. The Minister should be deeply ashamed of himself. His behaviour was contrary to the Ministerial Code. He should apologise and undertake that it will not happen again.

Pwynt o drefn. Mae hyn yn ymwneud â’r ymweliad gweinidogol ag Abergwaun y gwnaeth yr Aelod dros Ganolbarth a Gorllewin Cymru, Cynog Dafis, gyfeirio ato’n gynharach. Ar ôl cyfarfod cynharach gyda’r holl gymunedau a gefais gyda gweithwyr Dewhirst ac aelodau o gyngor tref Abergwaun, yr oeddwn wedi annog y Gweinidog dros Ddatblygu Economaidd i ymweld â’r ardal. Daeth hysbysiad wedyn tua phum mis wedi i’r gweithwyr golli eu swyddi fod cyfarfod i’w gynnal yng Nghlwb y Dynion Rheilffordd, Abergwaun. Yr oedd trigolion a chynghorwyr Abergwaun dan yr argraff y câi holl Aelodau’r Cynulliad eu gwahodd i’r cyfarfod. Deallaf fod Cynog wedi cael gwahoddiad ar y funud olaf pan roddodd ar ddeall y byddai’n ymbresenoli yno beth bynnag. Defnyddiwyd y cyfarfod fel diwrnod oddi wrth y gwaith i’r Blaid Lafur. Yr oedd yr holl gyhoeddusrwydd i’r cyfarfod yn cynnwys lluniau o’r darpar ymgeisydd am y sedd leol, y Gweinidog, sef yr Aelod Cynulliad lleol, a’r Aelod Seneddol lleol. Dylai holl Aelodau’r Cynulliad fod wedi’u gwahodd i’r cyfarfod ac ni ddylai fod wedi’i ddefnyddio fel cyfle i hysbysebu ymgeiswyr gwleidyddol pleidiol yn yr etholiadau Cynulliad sy’n dynesu, fel y gwnaed yn amlwg. Rhag cywilydd i’r Gweinidog. Yr oedd ei ymddygiad yn groes i’r Cod Gweinidogol. Dylai ymddiheuro ac ymgymryd na fydd hyn yn digwydd eto.

Cynog Dafis a gododd—

Cynog Dafis rose—

Dafydd Elis-Thomas The Presiding Officer spoken in English p. 53

Dafydd Elis-Thomas Y Llywydd siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 53

There can be nothing further—[ASSEMBLY MEMBERS: ‘It is not a point of order.’] I am grateful to the assistant deputy presiding officers in various parts of the Chamber. I call Cynog.

Nid oes dim pellach—[AELODAU CYNULLIAD: ‘Nid pwynt o drefn ydyw.’] Yr wyf yn ddiolchgar i’r dirprwy lywyddion cynorthwyol mewn gwahanol rannau o’r Siambr. Galwaf ar Cynog.

Cynog Dafis siaradwyd yn Gymraeg t. 53

Cynog Dafis spoken in Welsh p. 53

Ymhellach i’r pwynt o drefn hwnnw, credaf y bu ymddygiad y Gweinidog yn y mater hwn yn gwbl amhriodol. Deallaf fod fforwm swyddi Abergwaun, a sefydlwyd o ganlyniad i ymdrechion gwŷr busnes lleol, wedi ei gwneud yn glir ei fod yn awyddus bod cynrychiolydd o bob plaid yn cael eu gwahodd i’r digwyddiad. Yn sicr, yr oedd disgwyl y byddai pob Aelod o’r Cynulliad wedi derbyn gwahoddiad. Mae’n hollol warthus imi orfod mynnu fy mod yn cael gwahoddiad ac na anfonwyd gwahoddiad i Nick Bourne na Glyn Davies, pan fo gwahoddiad arbennig wedi ei estyn i ymgeisydd lleol y Blaid Lafur yn etholiad y Cynulliad, oedd yn eistedd drws nesaf i Jackie Lawrence a Richard Edwards ar y noson. Wrth ddiolch i’r sawl a fynychodd y cyfarfod, credaf y diolchodd Jackie i bawb ond y sawl a fu fwyaf cyfrifol am drefnu’r digwyddiad. Mae angen rhoi arweiniad clir i Weinidogion na ddylent ymddwyn yn y modd hwn. Fel arall, nid ydynt yn addas i fod yn Weinidogion.

Further to that point of order, I believe that the Minister’s behaviour in this matter was totally inappropriate. I understand that the Fishguard jobs forum, which was established as a result of the efforts of local businessmen, has made it clear that it was anxious that a representative from every party received an invitation to the event. Certainly, it was expected that every Assembly Member would be invited. It is quite outrageous that I had to insist that I was invited and that Nick Bourne and Glyn Davies were not invited, when a special invitation was extended to the local Labour Party candidate for the Assembly election, who sat next to Jackie Lawrence and Richard Edwards on the night. When thanking those who attended the meeting, I think that Jackie thanked everyone except those most responsible for organising the event. Ministers should receive clear guidance that they should not behave in this way. Otherwise, they are not fit to be Ministers.

David Davies spoken in English p. 53

David Davies siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 53

Further to that point of order, I have often been in similar situations. Only this morning I received an e-mail informing me that Michael German was visiting Monmouth at 12 p.m. today. The message said that he apologised for the short notice and that the venue had only recently been confirmed. I spoke to the owners of the venue and the booking was confirmed last week. It is reprehensible that an Assembly Minister would seek to prevent the elected Assembly Member for Monmouth from attending meetings on matters of great importance.

Ymhellach i’r pwynt o drefn hwnnw, bûm mewn sefyllfaoedd tebyg yn aml. Fore heddiw cefais neges e-bost yn fy hysbysu bod Michael German yn ymweld â Mynwy am 12 p.m. heddiw. Yr oedd y neges yn dweud ei fod yn ymddiheuro am y rhybudd byr ac mai ond yn ddiweddar y cadarnhawyd y man cyfarfod. Siaredais â pherchnogion y man cyfarfod ac yr oedd y llogi wedi’i gadarnhau yr wythnos diwethaf. Mae’n resynus bod Gweinidog Cynulliad yn ceisio atal yr Aelod Cynulliad etholedig dros Fynwy rhag bod yn bresennol mewn cyfarfodydd ar faterion o bwys mawr.

Richard Edwards spoken in English p. 53

Richard Edwards siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 53

Me thinks they doth protest too much. Me thinks also that an election is pending. I took it upon myself to organise the meeting at Fishguard and I invited local parties to attend. Cynog asked to come along and I acceded to his request. There was no such request from Nick Bourne. Had there been such a request, I would have graciously acquiesced to it. That in itself is a comment on his moonlighting in the area and how little commitment he has to the people of Fishguard and north Pembrokeshire.

Tebygaf eu bod yn protestio gormod. Tebygaf hefyd fod etholiad yn agos. Ymgymerais i drefnu’r cyfarfod yn Abergwaun a gwahoddais rai lleol i fod yn bresennol. Gofynnodd Cynog am gael dod a chydsyniais i’w gais. Ni fu cais o’r fath gan Nick Bourne. Pe buasai cais o’r fath, byddwn wedi ei dderbyn yn raslon. Mae hynny ynddo’i hun yn dweud rhywbeth am ei nosweithio yn yr ardal a chyn lleied yw ei ymrwymiad i bobl Abergwaun a gogledd sir Benfro.

Andrew Davies The Minister for Economic Development spoken in English p. 54

Andrew Davies Y Gweinidog dros Ddatblygu Economaidd siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 54

For the record, I confirm that that was the position. I was invited by Richard Edwards, the local AM. I have received invitations from other Members concerning other issues; I have had meetings with Elin Jones about the closure of the Dewhirst factory in Cardigan. I attended purely in response to that, and to the concerns of the local AM. He represents his constituents conscientiously and successfully, unlike certain Members of the Conservative Party, whose absences were conspicuous.

Er mwyn y cofnod, cadarnhaf mai felly yr oedd. Fe’m gwahoddwyd gan Richard Edwards, yr AC lleol. Yr wyf wedi derbyn ceisiadau gan Aelodau eraill ynghylch materion eraill; cefais gyfarfodydd ag Elin Jones ynghylch cau ffatri Dewhirst yn Aberteifi. Bûm yn bresennol yn gyfan gwbl mewn ymateb i hynny, ac i bryderon yr AC lleol. Mae’n cynrychioli ei etholwyr yn gydwybodol ac yn llwyddiannus, yn wahanol i rai Aelodau o’r Blaid Geidwadol, yr oedd eu habsenoldeb yn amlwg.

Dafydd Elis-Thomas The Presiding Officer spoken in English p. 54

Dafydd Elis-Thomas Y Llywydd siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 54

Thank you for the prior notice on—

Diolch i chi am y rhybudd o flaen llaw ar—

David Davies a gododd—

David Davies rose—

Dafydd Elis-Thomas The Presiding Officer spoken in English p. 54

Dafydd Elis-Thomas Y Llywydd siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 54

You cannot have another point further to this point of order, David.

Ni allwch gael pwynt arall ymhellach i’r pwynt o drefn hwn, David.

I am grateful to the leader of the Welsh Conservatives for giving me advance notice of this point of order. That enabled me to establish that I ruled on this on 13 March 2001, for those of you who follow these matters, indicating that it was normal practice for Ministers to inform Members if they were visiting their constituencies. The First Minister then informed the Assembly that it was not the practice to inform regional Members. Points of order were raised at that time and I took the view then, and I still do, that although I regard all Members as equal in the Chamber, and as having equal privileges and rights as Members, it is not always possible—indeed it is probably impossible—for me to try to impose such courtesies on those outside the Assembly.

Yr wyf yn ddiolchgar i arweinydd Ceidwadwyr Cymru am roi rhybudd o flaen llaw imi am y pwynt o drefn hwn. Yr oedd hynny wedi fy ngalluogi i gadarnhau fy mod wedi dyfarnu ar hyn ar 13 Mawrth 2001, i’r rhai ohonoch sy’n dilyn y materion hyn, gan nodi ei bod yn arfer arferol i Weinidogion hysbysu Aelodau os oeddent yn ymweld â’u hetholaethau. Hysbysodd y Prif Weinidog y Cynulliad wedyn nad oedd yn arfer hysbysu Aelodau rhanbarthol. Codwyd pwyntiau o drefn ar y pryd a’m barn i bryd hynny, fel y mae o hyd, yw, er fy mod yn ystyried bod yr holl Aelodau’n gyfartal yn y Siambr, a bod ganddynt freintiau a hawliau cyfartal fel Aelodau, nad yw bob amser yn bosibl—yn wir, mae’n amhosibl yn ôl pob tebyg—imi geisio gorfodi cwrteisi o’r fath ar y rhai y tu allan i’r Cynulliad.

My preferred view is that all Assembly Members—both list and first-past-the-post Members—should, wherever possible, be involved in any public events in their constituencies. However, it is not a matter for me, but for the courtesy of Government Ministers. I suspect that the impending election will mean that there will be many meetings over the next five or six months involving many candidates throughout Wales.

Y safbwynt a ffafriaf yw y dylai pob Aelod o’r Cynulliad—Aelodau’r rhestrau a’r rhai cyntaf heibio i’r postyn—lle bynnag y bo modd, gymryd rhan mewn unrhyw ddigwyddiadau cyhoeddus yn eu hetholaethau. Fodd bynnag, nid yw’n fater i mi, ond i gwrteisi Gweinidogion y Llywodraeth. Yr wyf yn amau y bydd yr etholiad sydd ar ddod yn golygu y bydd llawer o gyfarfodydd dros y pump neu chwe mis nesaf a fydd yn cynnwys llawer o ymgeiswyr ledled Cymru.

Phil Williams spoken in English p. 55

Phil Williams siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 55

Point of order. I raise this under Standing Order No. 18. There have been recent discussions in the press about the inclusion in the Record of Proceedings of a sedentary intervention that prompted a response by the main speaker. The press also reported a suggestion by a Member that the Record of Proceedings should be amended. Standing Order No.18 is brief; could you clarify the criteria that are followed for including interventions in the Record of Proceedings and also clarify under what circumstances it might be amended for the final edited version?

Pwynt o drefn. Codaf hyn o dan Reol Sefydlog Rhif 18. Bu trafodaethau yn y wasg yn ddiweddar ynghylch cynnwys yng Nghofnod y Trafodion ymyriad gan rywun ar ei eistedd a gymhellodd ymateb gan y prif siaradwr. Yr oedd adroddiad yn y wasg hefyd am awgrym gan Aelod y dylid newid Cofnod y Trafodion. Mae Rheol Sefydlog Rhif 18 yn fyr; a allwch egluro’r meini prawf a ddilynir ar gyfer cynnwys ymyriadau yng Nghofnod y Trafodion ac egluro hefyd o dan ba amgylchiadau y gellid ei newid ar gyfer y fersiwn golygedig terfynol?

Dafydd Elis-Thomas The Presiding Officer spoken in English p. 55

Dafydd Elis-Thomas Y Llywydd siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 55

This matter was dealt with by the Deputy Presiding Officer at the time, and I agree with everything he said. I heard an apology on this today.

Ymdriniwyd â’r mater hwn gan y Dirprwy Lywydd ar y pryd, a chytunaf â phopeth a ddywedodd. Clywais ymddiheuriad ar hyn heddiw.

Interventions from a sedentary position are not normally included in the record, unless their inclusion is necessary to make sense of subsequent references in debate. That has always been the Assembly’s position and the Record of Proceedings has operated within that practice, which is normal Hansard practice worldwide. Members will respect the integrity of the official record and its outstanding editor in these matters.

Nid yw ymyriadau gan rywun ar ei eistedd yn cael eu cynnwys yn y cofnod fel arfer, oni bai fod rhaid eu cynnwys er mwyn gwneud synnwyr o gyfeiriadau yn y ddadl wedyn. Dyna yw safbwynt y Cynulliad erioed ac mae Cofnod y Trafodion wedi dilyn yr arfer hwnnw, sef arfer arferol Hansard ledled y byd. Bydd yr Aelodau’n parchu cywirdeb y cofnod swyddogol a’i olygydd rhagorol yn y materion hyn.

David Davies spoken in English p. 55

David Davies siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 55

Point of order. I raise this under Standing Order No. 7.8 on the use of courteous language. The First Minister has repeatedly accused my colleague and good friend, Nicholas Bourne, of being the only person to have used the term ‘embassies’, but in fact it was used by his own press officer, Ceri Parsons, on 18 September in an interview with Guy Adams of The Daily Telegraph.

Pwynt o drefn. Codaf hyn o dan Reol Sefydlog Rhif 7.8 ar ddefnyddio iaith gwrtais. Mae’r Prif Weinidog wedi cyhuddo fy nghyd-Aelod a’m cyfaill, Nicholas Bourne, dro ar ôl tro gan ddweud mai ef yw’r unig un a ddefnyddiodd y term ‘llysgenadaethau’, ond mewn gwirionedd fe’i defnyddiwyd gan ei swyddog y wasg ei hun, Ceri Parsons, ar 18 Medi mewn cyfweliad â Guy Adams o The Daily Telegraph.

Dafydd Elis-Thomas The Presiding Officer spoken in English p. 56

Dafydd Elis-Thomas Y Llywydd siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 56

This is not a point of order for me. We must move on.

Nid yw hyn yn bwynt o drefn i mi. Rhaid inni symud ymlaen.

Datganiad gan Ysgrifennydd Gwladol Cymru ar Araith y Frenhines

Statement by the Secretary of State for Wales on the Queen’s Speech

Peter Hain Ysgrifennydd Gwladol Cymru siaradwyd yn Gymraeg ac yn Saesneg t. 56

Peter Hain The Secretary of State for Wales spoken in Welsh and English p. 56

Diolch yn fawr, Lywydd; mae’n bleser mawr dod i’r Cynulliad fel Ysgrifennydd Gwladol Cymru.

in Welsh Thank you very much, Presiding Officer; it is a great pleasure to be in the Assembly as Secretary of State for Wales.

As a passionate devolutionist and co-ordinator of the 1997 referendum campaign, I am especially proud to address the National Assembly on the Queen’s Speech. There were long gloomy moments during the early hours of 19 September 1997, when we all doubted there would be an Assembly: until Carmarthen came through for us, on the back of the biggest ‘Yes’ vote in Neath—let us never forget that.

yn Saesneg Fel datganolwr brwdfrydig a chydlynydd ymgyrch refferendwm 1997, yr wyf yn arbennig o falch o gael annerch y Cynulliad Cenedlaethol ar Araith y Frenhines. Bu munudau tywyll hir yn ystod oriau mân 19 Medi 1997, pan oeddem oll yn amau a fyddai Cynulliad: hyd nes i Gaerfyrddin ddod i’r adwy, ar ôl y bleidlais fwyaf o’i blaid yng Nghastell-nedd—na foed inni fyth anghofio hynny.

We are in our fourth year of Welsh Assembly Government. It is four years since the Government began a constitutional revolution to empower the nations and regions of Britain; a constitutional revolution to decentralise decision-making and begin the process of creating a participatory democracy. I say ‘we’, and not ‘you’, because it really is ‘we’. We are a partnership and a strong one at that—a rock solid partnership between Westminster and Cardiff; between our two Cabinets and between Welsh Members of Parliament and Assembly Members.

yn Saesneg Yr ydym yn ein pedwaredd flwyddyn o Lywodraeth Cynulliad Cymru. Mae pedair blynedd ers i’r Llywodraeth gychwyn chwyldro cyfansoddiadol i alluogi cenhedloedd a rhanbarthau Prydain; chwyldro cyfansoddiadol i ddatganoli’r broses o wneud penderfyniadau a chychwyn y broses o greu democratiaeth gyfranogiadol. Dywedaf ‘ni’, ac nid ‘chi’, oherwydd ‘ni’ ydyw mewn gwirionedd. Partneriaeth ydym ac un gryf at hynny—partneriaeth gadarn fel y graig rhwng San Steffan a Chaerdydd; rhwng ein dau Gabinet a rhwng Aelodau Seneddol o Gymru ac Aelodau o’r Cynulliad.

I pay tribute to Paul Murphy for the work he did in cementing that partnership; I pledge to carry it forward. I also pay tribute to Rhodri Morgan, as the leader of Wales. Rhodri and I go back over thirty years to the struggle against apartheid. Since then, we have tramped more streets together in elections and by-elections across Britain than most people have had hot dinners. Alongside Ron Davies, Dafydd Wigley and Richard Livsey, we worked flat out together for a ‘Yes’ vote in the referendum.

yn Saesneg Talaf deyrnged i Paul Murphy am y gwaith a wnaeth wrth gryfhau’r bartneriaeth honno; addunedaf i fynd â hi yn ei blaen. Talaf deyrnged hefyd i Rhodri Morgan, fel arweinydd Cymru. Mae Rhodri a minnau’n adnabod ein gilydd ers dros 30 mlynedd ac adeg yr ymgyrch yn erbyn apartheid. Ers hynny, yr ydym wedi cerdded mwy o strydoedd gyda’n gilydd mewn etholiadau ac is-etholiadau ledled Prydain nag y gellid eu cofio. Ochr yn ochr â Ron Davies, Dafydd Wigley a Richard Livsey, gwnaethom weithio ein gorau glas gyda’n gilydd dros bleidlais ‘Ie’ yn y refferendwm.

Rhodri knows, and you can be sure, that as Secretary of State, I will do all that I can to support the Assembly and back Welsh Government. We want Wales’s new democracy to flourish and Wales’s new Government to triumph, which is why, when I was appointed Secretary of State, I pledged to work with the Assembly to build a world class Wales with a highly skilled, high-quality economy and top class public services. The Queen’s Speech takes us forward to achieve that objective. It takes forward our delivery on better health services, on more jobs and greater prosperity, on a stronger economy, on top-class education and training and on security from crime, harassment and yobbishness. To deliver these goals, Wales must think big and be bold: think big to be world class and think bold to achieve that. You have been bold—delivering policies that London has not done.

yn Saesneg Gŵyr Rhodri, a gallwch chi fod yn sicr, y byddaf yn gwneud popeth a allaf fel Ysgrifennydd Gwladol i gynorthwyo’r Cynulliad a chefnogi Llywodraeth Cymru. Yr ydym am i ddemocratiaeth newydd Cymru ffynnu ac am i Lywodraeth newydd Cymru lwyddo, a dyna pam, pan benodwyd fi’n Ysgrifennydd Gwladol, yr addunedais i weithio gyda’r Cynulliad i adeiladu Cymru o’r radd flaenaf gydag economi dra medrus o ansawdd da a gwasanaethau cyhoeddus o’r safon uchaf. Mae Araith y Frenhines yn mynd â ni yn ein blaen i gyrraedd yr amcan hwnnw. Mae’n hyrwyddo ein gallu i gyflawni o ran sicrhau gwell gwasanaethau iechyd, rhagor o swyddi a mwy o ffyniant, economi gryfach, addysg a hyfforddiant o’r safon orau a diogelwch rhag troseddu, aflonyddu ac ymddygiad iobaidd. Er mwyn cyrraedd y nodau hyn, rhaid i Gymru anelu’n uchel a bod yn fentrus: anelu’n uchel er mwyn bod gyda’r gorau yn y byd a mentro er mwyn cyflawni hynny. Buoch yn fentrus—gan gyflawni polisïau na wnaeth Llundain.

On health, you have secured lower prescription charges than in England and six weeks’ free home care. On education, you have abolished key stage 1 statutory testing in schools and piloted the Welsh baccalaureate for 16 to 19-year-olds, and you have provided the excellent Assembly Learning Grants to expand opportunities in higher and further education. On transport, you have secured free local bus travel for pensioners and disabled people.

yn Saesneg Ar iechyd, yr ydych wedi sicrhau taliadau presgripsiwn is nag yn Lloegr a chwe wythnos o ofal yn y cartref am ddim. Ar addysg, yr ydych wedi diddymu profion statudol cyfnod allweddol 1 mewn ysgolion ac wedi rhagbrofi’r fagloriaeth Gymreig ar gyfer rhai 16 i 19 mlwydd oed ac yr ydych wedi darparu Grantiau Dysgu rhagorol y Cynulliad i ehangu’r cyfleoedd mewn addysg bellach ac uwch. Ar drafnidiaeth, yr ydych wedi sicrhau teithio am ddim ar fysiau lleol i bensiynwyr a phobl anabl.

This is government in Wales delivering for the people of Wales. However, we must be aware that many pensioners delight in their free bus travel without realising that you have delivered it. Many parents appreciate free school milk for their youngsters without knowing that the Assembly is responsible. Therefore, we have a great deal more work to do in terms of communicating our successes.

yn Saesneg Dyma lywodraeth yng Nghymru’n cyflawni dros bobl Cymru. Fodd bynnag, rhaid inni fod yn ymwybodol bod llawer o bensiynwyr yn ymhyfrydu mewn teithio ar fysiau am ddim heb sylweddoli mai chi a’i cyflawnodd. Mae llawer o rieni’n gwerthfawrogi llaeth am ddim yn yr ysgol i’w plant heb wybod mai’r Cynulliad sy’n gyfrifol. Felly, mae gennym lawer iawn mwy o waith i’w wneud o ran rhoi gwybod am ein llwyddiannau.

We, the political class in Wales, namely MPs, AMs, councillors and the media too—because our journalists are also part of it—must always be alert to the risk that we turn off our voters in their thousands by seeming preoccupied with ourselves, not with them. We need to concentrate on policy rather than personality, on issues not incidents, on solutions not squabbles. We must concentrate on the big picture, not the small froth. Too often in Wales, we talk ourselves down when we should be talking ourselves up. We appear to lack self- confidence, when we have the talent to be the best. Far too often we act parochial, when we should be thinking big.

yn Saesneg Rhaid i ni, y dosbarth gwleidyddol yng Nghymru, sef Aelodau Seneddol, Aelodau Cynulliad, cynghorwyr a’r cyfryngau hefyd—gan fod ein newyddiadurwyr yn rhan ohono hefyd—fod yn effro bob amser i’r perygl ein bod yn diflasu ein pleidleiswyr wrth eu miloedd drwy ymddangos ein bod yn ymddiddori ynom ni’n hun ac nid ynddynt hwy. Rhaid inni ganolbwyntio ar bolisi yn hytrach na phersonoliaeth, ar faterion sy’n codi ac nid ar ddigwyddiadau, ar atebion ac nid ar gwerylon. Rhaid inni ganolbwyntio ar y darlun mawr, nid ar falu awyr. Yn rhy aml yng Nghymru, yr ydym yn ein bychanu ein hunain pan ddylem ein canmol ein hunain. Yr ydym yn ymddangos yn ddihyder, tra bo’r ddawn gennym i fod yn orau. Yn rhy aml o lawer yr ydym yn gweithredu’n blwyfol, pan ddylem anelu’n uchel.

We should be thinking big on issues like health, where you have already delivered massive increases in health spending, meaning more patients are being treated than ever before. You have delivered large increases in NHS staff, and you are delivering 10 new hospitals. That is an impressive contrast with the 70 hospitals that were shut down under the last Conservative Government in Wales between 1979 and 1997, not to mention the more than 8,000 general and acute beds that were lost—a reduction of over a third.

yn Saesneg Dylem anelu’n uchel ar faterion fel iechyd, lle’r ydych eisoes wedi sicrhau cynnydd aruthrol yn y gwariant ar iechyd, sy’n golygu bod mwy o gleifion yn cael eu trin nag erioed o’r blaen. Yr ydych wedi sicrhau cynnydd mawr yn nifer staff y GIG, ac yr ydych yn darparu 10 ysbyty newydd. Mae hynny’n wrthgyferbyniad trawiadol i’r 70 ysbyty a gaewyd dan y Llywodraeth Geidwadol ddiwethaf yng Nghymru rhwng 1979 a 1997, heb sôn am yr 8,000 a rhagor o welyau cyffredinol ac aciwt a gollwyd—gostyngiad o fwy nag un rhan o dair.

Tomorrow, I move the second reading of the Health (Wales) Bill, which increases patient power in terms of improving and running the NHS in Wales. You helped to shape this Bill, and I know that the Health and Social Services Committee played a vital role in the process of pre-legislative scrutiny. The Queen’s Speech has also seen the introduction of the Community Care (Delayed Discharges) Bill, which will ensure that Welsh local authorities provide important community care services to older people awaiting discharge from hospital. The Health and Social Care Bill establishes a new audit and inspection regime for healthcare and will be drafted to allow the Assembly the necessary freedom to exercise its powers under the devolution settlement to tailor priorities to Wales’s needs.

yn Saesneg Yfory, byddaf yn cynnig yr ail ddarlleniad o’r Mesur Iechyd (Cymru), sy’n rhoi mwy o bŵer i gleifion yng nghyd-destun gwella a rhedeg y GIG yng Nghymru. Gwnaethoch helpu i siapio’r Mesur hwn, a gwn fod y Pwyllgor Iechyd a Gwasanaethau Cymdeithasol wedi chwarae rôl hollbwysig yn y broses o archwilio cyn deddfu. Mae Araith y Frenhines hefyd wedi sicrhau cyflwyno’r Mesur Gofal Cymunedol (Gohirio Rhyddhau), a fydd yn sicrhau bod awdurdodau lleol yng Nghymru’n darparu gwasanaethau gofal cymunedol pwysig ar gyfer pobl hŷn sy’n disgwyl cael eu rhyddhau o’r ysbyty. Mae’r Mesur Iechyd a Gofal Cymdeithasol yn sefydlu cyfundrefn archwilio ac arolygu newydd ar gyfer gofal iechyd a chaiff ei ddrafftio er mwyn caniatáu’r rhyddid y mae ar y Cynulliad ei angen i arfer ei bwerau dan yr ardrefniant datganoli i addasu’r blaenoriaethau yn unol ag anghenion Cymru.

The Assembly Cabinet has made it clear that you will not follow the same path as the Government intends pursuing in England by, for example, the creation of foundation hospitals. Why should this be a problem? It is devolution in action. That is exactly why we campaigned so hard to win that referendum: to enable the people of Wales to meet the different needs and values of our nation in different ways from England. The same applies to the future of higher education funding, where I respect the position that the Welsh Cabinet has taken. However, I can assure you that the Government has taken no decision on top-up fees. We are reviewing the funding position, quite simply because, if we want world-class universities, we must find a way of funding them to a world-class standard. However, I passionately believe that any new policy, whether in England or in Wales, must not deny students from low or even middle-income backgrounds in Wales access to our best universities. It is also right that we are seriously considering whether we should still be treating 18-year-olds on the basis of their family background, rather than on the basis of being adults with an enhanced future earning potential. I am determined that Wales’s voice is heeded as the Government develops policy in this, as in all other, areas.

yn Saesneg Mae Cabinet y Cynulliad wedi rhoi ar ddeall na fyddwch yn dilyn yr un llwybr ag y mae’r Llywodraeth yn bwriadu ei ddilyn yn Lloegr, er enghraifft, drwy greu ysbytai sefydledig. Pam y dylai hynny beri problem? Datganoli ar waith ydyw. Dyna’n union pam y gwnaethom ymgyrchu mor galed i ennill y refferendwm hwnnw: i alluogi pobl Cymru i fodloni anghenion a gwerthoedd gwahanol ein cenedl mewn ffyrdd gwahanol i Loegr. Mae’r un peth yn wir am ddyfodol ariannu addysg uwch, lle y parchaf safbwynt Cabinet y Cynulliad. Fodd bynnag, gallaf eich sicrhau nad yw’r Llywodraeth wedi gwneud penderfyniad ar ffïoedd ychwanegol. Yr ydym yn adolygu’r sefyllfa o ran ariannu oherwydd, yn gwbl syml, os ydym am gael prifysgolion o’r radd flaenaf, rhaid inni ddod o hyd i fodd i’w hariannu at safon o’r radd flaenaf. Serch hynny, credaf yn angerddol na ddylai unrhyw bolisi newydd, boed yng Nghymru neu yn Lloegr, rwystro mynediad i fyfyrwyr o gefndiroedd incwm isel, neu ganolig hyd yn oed, yng Nghymru i’n prifysgolion gorau. Mae hefyd yn briodol ein bod yn ystyried o ddifrif a ddylem ddal i drin rhai 18 mlwydd oed ar sail eu cefndir teuluol, yn hytrach nag ar y sail eu bod yn oedolion sydd â’r gallu i gael enillion uwch yn y dyfodol. Yr wyf yn benderfynol y rhoddir sylw i lais Cymru wrth i’r Llywodraeth ddatblygu ei pholisi yn y maes hwn, ac ym mhob maes arall.

The Queen’s Speech is also dedicated to fighting lawlessness, disorder and anti-social behaviour. We have seen a 16 per cent reduction in recorded crime in Wales since 1997. Police numbers have risen by 600. Violence against the person, burglary and vehicle crimes are all down. However, people still do not feel secure enough. Proud Welsh communities, such as those that I represent, find themselves haunted and torn apart by drugs and anti-social behaviour. Many suffer the real fear of being mugged by those desperate for money for drugs, and of having their cars stolen to be driven recklessly around the streets. Therefore, we will continue to roll out and increase the range of fixed penalty notices, which were successfully piloted in north Wales. Through the Anti-Social Behaviour Bill, we will take action to tackle anti-social tenants; initiate a new drive to curb alcohol-related crime, including under-age drinking; take action to deal with damage to the environment such as graffiti and fly-tipping; and introduce new measures to tackle truancy. We will also extend anti-social behaviour orders to other offences, and I urge local crime and disorder reduction partnerships in Wales to take full advantage of these new tools in the fight against crime.

yn Saesneg Mae Araith y Frenhines yn ymroi hefyd i ymladd anghyfraith, anhrefn ac ymddygiad gwrthgymdeithasol. Gwelsom ostyngiad o 16 y cant yn nifer y troseddau a gofnodwyd yng Nghymru ers 1997. Mae 600 yn rhagor o heddweision. Mae gostyngiad hefyd mewn trais yn erbyn personau, byrgleriaeth a throseddau sy’n ymwneud â cherbydau. Er hynny, nid yw pobl yn teimlo’n ddigon diogel eto. Mae cymunedau gwych yng Nghymru, fel y rhai a gynrychiolaf fi, yn cael eu haflonyddu a’u chwalu gan gyffuriau ac ymddygiad gwrthgymdeithasol. Mae ar lawer o bobl wir ofn cael eu mygio gan rai a wnâi rywbeth i gael arian ar gyfer cyffuriau, a dwyn eu ceir i’w gyrru’n ddiofal ar hyd y strydoedd. Gan hynny, parhawn i ymestyn a chynyddu’r amrediad o rybuddion cosb benodol, a ragbrofwyd yn llwyddiannus yn y Gogledd. Drwy’r Mesur Ymddygiad Gwrthgymdeithasol, cymerwn gamau i ymdrin â thenantiaid gwrthgymdeithasol; cychwynnwn ymgyrch newydd i ffrwyno troseddu sy’n gysylltiedig ag alcohol, gan gynnwys yfed dan oed; cymerwn gamau i ddelio â difrod i’r amgylchedd fel graffiti a thaflu sbwriel; a chyflwynwn fesurau newydd i fynd i’r afael â thriwantiaeth. Byddwn hefyd yn ymestyn gorchmynion ymddygiad gwrthgymdeithasol i gynnwys troseddau eraill, ac anogaf y partneriaethau gostwng troseddu ac anhrefn lleol yng Nghymru i fanteisio’n llawn ar yr offer newydd hyn yn y frwydr yn erbyn troseddu.

The Criminal Justice and Sentencing Bill will help to re-balance the criminal justice system in Wales in favour of the victim as well as bringing in tougher sentences for violent and sexual offenders and extended supervision after they are released. The Courts Reform Bill will bring Welsh magistrates courts and Crown courts into a single criminal courts service and introduce tougher enforcement of fines, with new sanctions for non-payment, such as clamping of vehicles. However, none of our ambitious goals on health, on education or on tackling crime, and none of the Assembly Government’s vision, can be realised without ensuring that Wales remains prosperous and does not return to the dark days of high unemployment.

yn Saesneg Bydd y Mesur Cyfiawnder Troseddol a Dedfrydu yn helpu i ailfantoli’r system cyfiawnder troseddol yng Nghymru o blaid y dioddefwr yn ogystal â chyflwyno dedfrydau llymach ar gyfer troseddwyr treisgar a rhywiol a goruchwyliaeth estynedig ar ôl eu rhyddhau. Bydd Mesur Diwygio’r Llysoedd yn cynnwys llysoedd ynadon a llysoedd y Goron yng Nghymru mewn un gwasanaeth llysoedd troseddol ac yn cyflwyno gorfodaeth lymach ar ddirwyon, gyda sancsiynau newydd os na theilir hwy, fel clampio cerbydau. Fodd bynnag, ni ellir cyflawni’r un o’n nodau uchelgeisiol ar iechyd, ar addysg neu ar fynd i’r afael â throseddu, na dim o weledigaeth Llywodraeth y Cynulliad, heb sicrhau bod Cymru’n dal i ffynnu ac nad yw’n mynd yn ôl at ddyddiau du diweithdra uchel.

When we came to power in 1997, only 50p of every pound of public spending went on hospitals, schools and other public services. The other 50p went on debt and the costs of unemployment. Now, 80p is being invested in public services, with levels of public debt and unemployment at a historic low. This has created the space for the largest ever increase in government funding for Wales—year on year increases in the Assembly’s budget, pushing it from a little over £7 billion in 1998 to £10 billion now, and an incredible £12.5 billion in three years’ time. Therefore, in barely nine years of Labour Government, we will have nearly doubled the Welsh budget, ensuring that spending by the Government per head of population in Wales remains about 13 per cent above the UK average. This investment, combined with low mortgages and low inflation, has transformed the employment situation in Wales. Unemployment has been cut, with the claimant count down by over 40 per cent—the lowest level for 27 years. There are 33,000 more people back in work in Wales and long-term youth unemployment has been cut by 76 per cent. A world-class Wales also means backing business, and I am delighted that Welsh towns and cities already have some of the fastest growing economies in the United Kingdom. Newport, Cardiff and Swansea are among the cities and towns with the highest proportion of firms growing by more than 25 per cent last year.

yn Saesneg Pan ddaethom i rym yn 1997, dim ond 50c o bob punt o wariant cyhoeddus a âi at ysbytai, ysgolion a gwasanaethau cyhoeddus eraill. Âi’r 50c arall at dalu dyled a chostau diweithdra. Yn awr, buddsoddir 80c mewn gwasanaethau cyhoeddus, ac mae dyled gyhoeddus a diweithdra ar lefelau hanesyddol o isel. Hyn sydd wedi creu’r cyfle ar gyfer y cynnydd mwyaf erioed yn arian y llywodraeth i Gymru—codiadau yng nghyllideb y Cynulliad y naill flwyddyn ar ôl y llall, gan ei chodi o ychydig dros £7 biliwn yn 1998 i £10 biliwn yn awr, a’r swm anhygoel o £12.5 biliwn ymhen tair blynedd. Felly, mewn prin naw mlynedd o Lywodraeth Lafur, byddwn wedi bron â dyblu cyllideb Cymru, gan sicrhau bod y gwariant y pen gan y Llywodraeth yng Nghymru’n aros tua 13 y cant yn uwch na chyfartaledd y DU. Mae’r buddsoddiad hwn, ynghyd â morgeisi isel a chwyddiant isel, wedi trawsnewid y sefyllfa cyflogaeth yng Nghymru. Mae diweithdra wedi’i ostwng, ac mae nifer y rhai sy’n hawlio budd-dal dros 40 y cant yn is—yr isaf ers 27 mlynedd. Mae 33,000 yn fwy o bobl wedi dychwelyd i weithio yng Nghymru ac mae diweithdra tymor hir ymysg pobl ifanc wedi’i ostwng 76 y cant. Mae Cymru o’r radd flaenaf hefyd yn golygu cefnogi busnes, ac yr wyf wrth fy modd bod trefi a dinasoedd Cymru eisoes ymysg y rhai sydd â’r economïau cyflymaf eu twf yn y Deyrnas Unedig. Mae Casnewydd, Caerdydd ac Abertawe ymysg y trefi a’r dinasoedd sydd â’r gyfran fwyaf o fusnesau a dyfodd o fwy na 25 y cant y llynedd.

Other measures in the Queen’s Speech include the Local Government Bill, which will give councils greater flexibility in the use of their resources, and the Planning and Compulsory Purchase Bill, which will speed up and improve the planning system by reducing bureaucracy. Both Bills include significant Wales-only provisions negotiated by the Wales Office with other Government departments and the Assembly. Again, devolution in action; partnership in action.

yn Saesneg Mesurau eraill a geir yn Araith y Frenhines yw’r Mesur Llywodraeth Leol, a fydd yn rhoi mwy o hyblygrwydd i gynghorau wrth ddefnyddio eu hadnoddau, a’r Mesur Cynllunio a Phrynu Gorfodol a fydd yn cyflymu ac yn gwella’r system gynllunio drwy leihau biwrocratiaeth. Mae’r ddau Fesur yn cynnwys darpariaethau pwysig i Gymru’n unig a negodwyd gan Swyddfa Cymru gydag adrannau Llywodraeth eraill a’r Cynulliad. Unwaith eto, dyma ddatganoli ar waith; dyma bartneriaeth ar waith.

Similarly, the Licensing Bill, which introduces flexible opening hours, includes specific provisions for Wales to repeal the now outdated provision for costly and mischievous referenda on Sunday opening of licensed premises. Sunday opening is now well established and widely supported throughout Wales.

yn Saesneg Yn yr un modd, mae’r Mesur Trwyddedu, sy’n cyflwyno oriau agor hyblyg, yn cynnwys darpariaethau penodol i Gymru i ddiddymu’r ddarpariaeth hen ffasiwn ar gyfer refferenda drud a niweidiol ar agor adeiladau trwyddedig ar y Sul. Mae agor ar y Sul wedi’i hen sefydlu bellach ac fe’i cefnogir yn gyffredinol ledled Cymru.

Therefore, Llywydd, the Queen’s Speech will build on our significant achievements, but we know that there is much more to do. We need Wales to be the best: second best is no good. Second best means that jobs will flow to countries in eastern Europe and even further eastward, where labour costs are a fraction even of ours. Second best means that companies will look elsewhere for skills and investment locations. Therefore, we must stop at nothing to upgrade the skills of our entire population. We must stop at nothing to create a favourable environment for Welsh companies to grow and succeed, because they offer high-quality, high-tech products and services that the rest of the world wants to buy—not necessarily because they are the cheapest, but because they are the best.

yn Saesneg Felly, Lywydd, bydd Araith y Frenhines yn adeiladu ar sail ein cyflawniadau sylweddol, ond gwyddom fod llawer mwy i’w wneud. Mae arnom angen i Gymru fod yn orau: nid yw bod yn ail orau’n ddigon da. Mae bod yn ail orau’n golygu y bydd swyddi’n mynd i wledydd yn nwyrain Ewrop ac ymhellach byth i’r dwyrain, lle y mae’r costau llafur yn fach iawn hyd yn oed o’u cymharu â’n rhai ni. Mae bod yn ail orau’n golygu y bydd cwmnïau’n chwilio mewn mannau eraill am sgiliau a lleoliadau i fuddsoddi. Gan hynny, rhaid inni wneud popeth a allwn i uwchraddio sgiliau ein poblogaeth gyfan. Rhaid inni wneud popeth a allwn i greu amgylchedd ffafriol i gwmnïau Cymru gael tyfu a llwyddo, am eu bod yn cynnig cynhyrchion a gwasanaethau uwchdechnolegol a ansawdd da y mae gweddill y byd am eu prynu—nid o reidrwydd am mai hwy yw’r rhataf, ond am mai hwy yw’r gorau.

There’s always more that we can do to raise our game. A world-class Wales is one that is looking to the future, not facing the past; a Wales that is confident, outward-looking and punches above its weight; a nation with an emerging world-class capital city which, I hope, will be the Cultural Capital of Europe in 2008, because Cardiff has an outstanding bid.

yn Saesneg Mae rhagor y gallwn ei wneud bob amser i wella ein perfformiad. Mae Cymru o’r radd flaenaf yn un sy’n edrych tua’r dyfodol, nid yn wynebu’r gorffennol; Cymru sy’n hyderus, yn edrych tuag at allan ac yn cystadlu â’r goreuon; cenedl sydd â phrifddinas sy’n datblygu’n un o’r radd flaenaf a fydd, yr wyf yn gobeithio, yn Brifddinas Diwylliant Ewrop yn 2008, gan fod cais Caerdydd yn un rhagorol.

We have to raise our game in a way that also protects our own and special values in Wales: Welsh values of caring; Welsh values of family life; Welsh values of mutual co-operation and mutual respect; Welsh values of democracy; Welsh values of internationalism; and Welsh values of multi-racialism. Devolution has facilitated the political expression of a new common Welsh citizenship, based not upon an obsolete nationalism but upon social justice, inclusiveness, radicalism, internationalism and, above all, a strong commitment to community which, for me, is at the heart of our proud Welsh identity.

yn Saesneg Rhaid inni wella ein perfformiad mewn modd sydd hefyd yn diogelu ein gwerthoedd arbennig ein hun yng Nghymru: gwerthoedd Cymreig o ran gofalu; gwerthoedd Cymreig o ran bywyd teuluol; gwerthoedd Cymreig o ran cydweithredu â’n gilydd a pharch at ein gilydd; gwerthoedd Cymreig o ran democratiaeth; gwerthoedd Cymreig o ran rhyng-genedlaetholdeb; a gwerthoedd Cymreig o ran amlhiliaeth. Mae datganoli wedi hwyluso’r mynegiant gwleidyddol o ddinasyddiaeth Gymreig gyffredin, nad yw’n seiliedig ar genedlaetholdeb hen ffasiwn ond ar gyfiawnder cymdeithasol, cynwysoldeb, radicaliaeth, rhyng-genedlaetholdeb ac, yn fwy na dim, ymrwymiad cryf i gymuned sydd, yn fy marn i, wrth wraidd ein hunaniaeth anrhydeddus fel Cymry.

Diolch yn fawr, Lywydd. Diolch yn fawr i chi i gyd. [Cymeradwyaeth.]

in Welsh Thank you, Llywydd. Thank you all. [Applause.]

Ieuan Wyn Jones siaradwyd yn Gymraeg ac yn Saesneg t. 62

Ieuan Wyn Jones spoken in Welsh and English p. 62

Ysgrifennydd Gwladol, croeso cynnes ichi yma ar eich ymweliad swyddogol cyntaf yn eich swydd newydd. Ar un ystyr, fel y bu ichi ein hatgoffa heddiw, dychwelyd yr ydych, gan mai chi oedd un o is-Weinidogion yr hen Swyddfa Gymreig yn ystod yr ymgyrch ddatganoli ac ymgyrch etholiad 1999. Yr ydych yn gefnogwr brwd i’r syniad o senedd i Gymru, a hynny ers nifer o flynyddoedd. Felly, byddwch yn ymwybodol o wendidau setliad presennol y Cynulliad. Yr wyf yn siŵr, felly, y byddwch yn manteisio ar bob cyfle i ddarbwyllo aelodau eich plaid o bwysigrwydd symud ymlaen i senedd, a hynny’n fuan.

in Welsh Secretary of State, a warm welcome to you here on your first official visit in your new post. In one way, as you reminded us today, you are returning, as you were one of the junior Ministers in the former Welsh Office during the devolution campaign and the 1999 election campaign. You are a keen supporter of the idea of a parliament for Wales, and have been for many years. Therefore, you will be aware of the flaws in the Assembly’s current settlement. I am sure, therefore, that you will seize every opportunity to convince members of your party of the importance of moving towards a parliament as swiftly as possible.

Byddwn ninnau, fel plaid, yn rhoi ein tystiolaeth i gomisiwn Richard yn y flwyddyn newydd. Dymunaf bob llwyddiant ichi wrth geisio perswadio’r Blaid Lafur yng Nghymru i wneud yr un peth.

in Welsh As a party, we will submit our evidence to the Richard commission in the new year. I wish you well in trying to persuade the Labour Party in Wales to do the same.

Your role, Secretary of State, could be described as a bridge or, to use Blair-speak, you are Wales’s guy in Westminster. Some of your predecessors—I am sure you would agree—were far more Westminster’s voice in Wales. Over the next few months, you will need to build plenty of bridges—and I have heard you doing your best today, as well as previously, to build your bridges with the First Minister. After all, not so long ago, he was your second choice in a contest of two. You will also have to convince us here that you are putting Wales first.

yn Saesneg Gellid disgrifio’ch rôl, Ysgrifennydd Gwladol, fel pont neu, a defnyddio iaith Blair, chi yw dyn Cymru yn San Steffan. Yr oedd rhai o’ch rhagflaenwyr—yr wyf yn siŵr y cytunech—yn llais dros San Steffan yng Nghymru i raddau mwy o lawer. Dros y misoedd nesaf, bydd yn rhaid ichi godi llawer o bontydd—fe’ch clywais yn gwneud eich gorau heddiw, ac o’r blaen, o ran codi pontydd rhyngoch â Phrif Weinidog Cymru. Wedi’r cwbl, heb fod mor bell yn ôl â hynny, ef oedd eich ail ddewis mewn cystadleuaeth rhwng dau. Bydd yn rhaid ichi ein hargyhoeddi ni yma hefyd eich bod yn rhoi Cymru’n gyntaf.

We have had the rhetoric, now let us have the reality. There was precious little in the recent Queen’s Speech for Wales. I realise that you are not responsible for that, because you were catapulted into the job after the shock resignation of Estelle Morris—if only Ministers here had her self-knowledge and honesty. It is pretty poor fare, is it not? A totally unremarkable health Bill, and that is about it. The Government of Wales’s proposals for the NHS will put an end to a stable NHS in Wales. I do not know what it is with New Labour. In England, it wants to tear the guts out of a hospital service by ripping out the best bits to create foundation hospitals, and here in Wales it wants to cut the NHS into 22 tiny pieces, at a time when waiting lists are soaring.

yn Saesneg Cawsom y rhethreg, yn awr gadewch inni gael y realiti. Ychydig iawn a oedd yn yr Araith y Frenhines ddiweddar i Gymru. Sylweddolaf nad ydych yn gyfrifol am hynny, oherwydd fe’ch hyrddiwyd i’r swydd ar ôl ymddiswyddiad syfrdanol Estelle Morris—o na fyddai Gweinidogion yn y fan hon yn meddu ar ei hunanadnabyddiaeth a’i gonestrwydd hi. Mae’n ddarpariaeth eithaf gwael, onid yw? Mesur iechyd cwbl ddinod, a dyna’r cwbl bron. Bydd cynigion Llywodraeth Cymru ar gyfer y GIG yn rhoi terfyn ar GIG sefydlog yng Nghymru. Ni wn beth ydyw am Lafur Newydd. Yn Lloegr, mae am ddiberfeddu’r gwasanaeth ysbytai drwy rwygo allan y darnau gorau i greu ysbytai sefydledig, ac yma yng Nghymru mae am dorri’r GIG yn 22 darn bach, ar adeg pan yw’r rhestrau aros yn codi i’r entrychion.

Let us return to the content of the Queen’s Speech, which includes a weak little health Bill and what else? It is hardly the sort of stuff to be trumpeted as building a world-class Wales as you said in The Western Mail, Secretary of State. What happened to the proposals for the Assembly to be given direction over the Strategic Rail Authority so that it could get to grips with the chaos that passes for transport in Wales? Why was the housing ombudsman proposal scuppered? It would have protected the rights of those who were tenants of registered social landlords. What happened to the Bill to make St David’s Day a public holiday? Does Wales really feature on Westminster’s radar?

yn Saesneg Gadewch inni fynd yn ôl at gynnwys Araith y Frenhines, sy’n cynnwys Mesur iechyd bach gwan a beth arall? Prin mai hwn yw’r math o stwff y gellid datgan ei fod yn adeiladu Cymru o’r radd flaenaf fel y dywedasoch yn The Western Mail, Ysgrifennydd Gwladol. Beth a ddaeth o’r cynigion i roi’r Awdurdod Rheilffyrdd Strategol dan gyfarwyddyd y Cynulliad fel y gallai fynd i’r afael â’r anhrefn sy’n esgus dros drafnidiaeth yng Nghymru? Pam y trechwyd y cynnig am ombwdsmon tai? Byddai wedi diogelu hawliau’r rhai sy’n denantiaid i landlordiaid cymdeithasol cofrestredig. Beth a ddigwyddodd i’r Mesur i wneud Dydd Gŵyl Dewi’n ŵyl gyhoeddus? A yw San Steffan yn ymwybodol o Gymru mewn gwirionedd?

Secretary of State, you have insisted today that parts of the Queen’s Speech will impact on Wales. I am sure that before the Westminster Government became embroiled in the firefighters’ strike—a mess of its own making—the Cabinet had been hoping to spin its latest ‘tough-on-crime’ line. Some of the gimmicks in the speech can only have been dreamt up with an eye on the next day’s headlines. For example, we have seen proposals for a ban on the sale of spray paint and marker pens to under-18s, on-the-spot fines for dropping litter and chewing gum, and the withdrawal of housing benefit for unruly tenants.

yn Saesneg Ysgrifennydd Gwladol, yr ydych wedi haeru heddiw y bydd rhannau o Araith y Frenhines yn cael effaith ar Gymru. Yr wyf yn siŵr mai gobaith y Cabinet, cyn i Lywodraeth San Steffan gael ei maglu yn streic y diffoddwyr tân—llanastr a greodd ei hun—oedd cael sbinio ei pholisi ‘caled ar droseddu’ diweddaraf. Rhaid mai gyda golwg ar y penawdau trannoeth y meddyliwyd am rai o’r gimigau yn yr araith. Er enghraifft, gwelsom gynigion ar gyfer gwahardd gwerthu paent chwistrellu a phinnau marcio i rai dan 18 oed, dirwyon yn y fan a’r lle am ollwng ysbwriel a gwm cnoi, a pheidio â thalu budd-dal tai i denantiaid afreolus.

Do not get me wrong: crime and the fear of crime are big issues that blight Welsh communities, terrify old people and stigmatise the young. The problem is not the focus on crime, but the trivial and puerile way in which those issues are being addressed. When I read about all the new initiatives and crackdowns, I thought, ‘here we go again’. We have been here so many times before, from the Tories’ Dangerous Dogs Bill to New Labour’s three strikes and you are out proposals. They were all rushed through to show that the Government of the day was actually doing something, but were all just an attempt to grab headlines rather than grapple with the roots of the problems. Anti-social behaviour orders, drug abstinence orders and child curfews have all bitten the dust and were ill-thought out, inoperable and unused policies—all gimmicks, all spin, all useless.

yn Saesneg Peidiwch â’m camddeall: mae troseddu ac ofn troseddu’n faterion o bwys mawr sy’n bla ar gymunedau yng Nghymru, yn dychryn hen bobl ac yn gwarthnodi pobl ifanc. Nid y ffocws ar droseddu yw’r broblem, ond y dull pitw a phlentynnaidd o ymdrin â’r materion hynny. Pan ddarllenais am yr holl fentrau a chosbau newydd, yr hyn a ddaeth i’m meddwl oedd, ‘dyma ni eto’. Buom yn y sefyllfa hon gynifer o weithiau o’r blaen, o Fesur Cŵn Peryglus y Torïaid i gynigion tair ergyd ac allan Llafur Newydd. Gyrrwyd hwy i gyd drwodd ar frys i ddangos bod y Llywodraeth ar y pryd yn gwneud rhywbeth, ond nid oedd y cwbl yn ddim ond ymgais i fachu’r penawdau yn hytrach na mynd i’r afael â gwreiddiau’r problemau. Mae gorchmynion ymddygiad gwrthgymdeithasol, gorchmynion ymwrthod â chyffuriau a chyrffyw i blant i gyd wedi llyfu’r llawr ac yr oeddent yn bolisïau byrbwyll, anymarferol na ddefnyddiwyd—gimigau a sbin bob un, a’r cwbl yn ddiwerth.

Do you not agree, Secretary of State, that what we really need are well-thought-out measures that tackle the real causes of crime—poverty, ignorance and injustice? Do you not think that, rather than wasting time on spin and gimmicks, the Government here and in Westminster should spend time tackling the alarming drop in the GDP per capita of Wales, compared with the rest of the United Kingdom? Would not time be better spent tackling the fact that we have lost 19,000 jobs in manufacturing since 1999, and ensuring that economic prosperity goes to all areas of Wales and not just those that you mentioned today? No, Secretary of State, we do not want any more spin, gimmicks or stunts. We badly need real ideas, real answers and real money to tackle the poverty that Wales has suffered for far too long.

yn Saesneg Onid ydych yn cytuno, Ysgrifennydd Gwladol, mai’r hyn y mae arnom ei angen mewn gwirionedd yw mesurau tra ystyriol sy’n mynd i’r afael â gwir achosion troseddu—tlodi, anwybodaeth ac anghyfiawnder? Onid ydych yn credu mai’r hyn y dylai’r Llywodraeth yma ac yn San Steffan ei wneud, yn hytrach na gwastraffu amser ar sbin a gimigau, yw mynd i’r afael â’r gostyngiad brawychus yng nghynnyrch mewnwladol crynswth y pen Cymru, o’i gymharu â gweddill y Deyrnas Unedig? Onid gwell fyddai treulio amser yn ymateb i’r ffaith ein bod wedi colli 19,000 o swyddi mewn gweithgynhyrchu ers 1999, a sicrhau bod ffyniant economaidd yn cyrraedd pob rhan o Gymru ac nid yn unig y rhai y cyfeiriasoch atynt heddiw? Na, Ysgrifennydd Gwladol, nid ydym am gael rhagor o sbin, gimigau neu styntiau. Mae arnom daer angen syniadau go iawn, atebion go iawn ac arian go iawn i fynd i’r afael â’r tlodi a brofodd Cymru’n llawer rhy hir.

The Secretary of State for Wales The Secretary of State for Wales spoken in English p. 65

The Secretary of State for Wales Ysgrifennydd Gwladol Cymru siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 65

I thought that we in Westminster were the only ones who did not have a serious opposition. I will deal specifically with the points that Ieuan Wyn Jones raised. He says that there are weaknesses in the present devolution settlement. The Richard commission that was set up by the Assembly is considering that, and will report on it in due course. I assure him that the Welsh Labour Party, along with Welsh Labour Members of Parliament, will give evidence to that commission. However, we should not run down what the Assembly has achieved using its own powers. I have pointed out some of those achievements—it is not, of course, in his interests to acknowledge them. To do so, would be to acknowledge the success of the Assembly, now in its fourth year of government. Ieuan Wyn Jones says that the Queen’s Speech has done precious little for Wales. Let us test that statement against the reality—one Wales-only Bill. He pours scorn on that Bill, but it was mostly drafted by the Assembly. It was also subject to pre-legislative scrutiny, and improved by the Assembly. I thought he would be celebrating the Bill rather than running it down.

Yr oeddwn wedi tybio mai ni yn San Steffan oedd yr unig rai heb wrthblaid a oedd o ddifrif. Ymdriniaf yn benodol â’r pwyntiau a gododd Ieuan Wyn Jones. Dywed fod gwendidau yn y setliad datganoli presennol. Mae comisiwn Richard a sefydlwyd gan y Cynulliad yn ystyried hynny, a bydd yn adrodd arno yn ei dro. Yr wyf yn ei sicrhau y bydd Plaid Lafur Cymru, ynghyd ag Aelodau Seneddol Llafur Cymru, yn rhoi tystiolaeth i’r comisiwn hwnnw. Er hynny, ni ddylem fychanu’r hyn a gyflawnodd y Cynulliad drwy ddefnyddio’i bwerau ei hun. Yr wyf wedi tynnu sylw at rai o’r cyflawniadau hynny—wrth gwrs, nid yw er budd iddo ef eu cydnabod. Byddai gwneud hynny’n gysfystyr â chydnabod llwyddiant y Cynulliad, sydd bellach yn ei bedwaredd flwyddyn o lywodraeth. Dywed Ieuan Wyn Jones mai ychydig iawn a wnaeth Araith y Frenhines dros Gymru. Gadewch inni roi prawf ar y gosodiad hwnnw yn wyneb y gwirionedd—un Mesur i Gymru’n unig. Mae’n wfftio’r Mesur hwnnw, ond fe’i drafftiwyd gan y Cynulliad gan mwyaf. Cafodd ei archwilio hefyd cyn ei gyflwyno fel deddfwriaeth, a’i wella gan y Cynulliad. Yr oeddwn wedi tybio y byddai’n canmol y Mesur yn hytrach na lladd arno.

Four other Bills have specific Wales-only clauses and provisions: Licensing, Local Government, Planning and Compulsory Purchase, and Health and Social Care Reform. At least another nine Bills cover Wales in crucial areas. I am astonished that he pours such scorn on the Anti-Social Behaviour Bill. He may not care about anti-social behaviour in his constituency, but many Members of Parliament and Assembly Members—[Interruption.]

Mae pedwar Mesur arall yn cynnwys cymalau a darpariaethau penodol i Gymru’n unig: Trwyddedu, Llywodraeth Leol, Cynllunio a Phrynu Gorfodol a Diwygio Gofal Iechyd a Chymdeithasol. Mae o leiaf naw Mesur arall yn ymdrin â Chymru mewn meysydd hollbwysig. Yr wyf yn synnu’n fawr at ei ddirmyg o’r Mesur Ymddygiad Gwrthgymdeithasol. Efallai nad yw’n pryderu am ymddygiad gwrthgymdeithasol yn ei etholaeth ei hun, ond mae llawer o Aelodau Seneddol ac Aelodau Cynulliad—[Torri ar draws.]

Dafydd Elis-Thomas The Presiding Officer spoken in English p. 66

Dafydd Elis-Thomas Y Llywydd siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 66

Order. This is not a debate. This is a statement. I would be grateful if the Secretary of State’s replies were heard with the usual courtesy of the Assembly.

Trefn. Nid dadl yw hon. Datganiad ydyw. Byddwn yn ddiolchgar os gwrandewid ar atebion yr Ysgrifennydd Gwladol gyda chwrteisi arferol y Cynulliad.

The Secretary of State for Wales The Secretary of State for Wales spoken in English p. 66

The Secretary of State for Wales Ysgrifennydd Gwladol Cymru siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 66

He said that the Bill contains trivial and puerile matters. Taking action against sex-offenders and criminals—international and domestic—is not a trivial and puerile matter. It is a crucial matter.

Dywedodd fod y Mesur yn cynnwys materion dibwys a phlentynnaidd. Nid mater dibwys a phlentynnaidd yw cymryd camau yn erbyn troseddwyr rhyw a drwgweithredwyr—rhai rhyngwladol a domestig. Mae’n fater hollbwysig.

Gwenda Thomas siaradwyd yn Gymraeg ac yn Saesneg t. 66

Gwenda Thomas spoken in Welsh and English p. 66

Peter, mae’n bleser gennyf groesawu eich dyrchafiad i swydd Ysgrifennydd Gwladol Cymru; yr ydych wedi dangos ymrwymiad mawr i ddatganoli. Derbyniwyd y newyddion am eich dyrachfiad yn gynnes o fewn etholaeth Castell-nedd—etholaeth y mae’r ddau ohonom yn ei rhannu. Llongyfarchiadau a phob dymuniad da.

in Welsh Peter, it is a pleasure for me to welcome your promotion to the post of Secretary of State for Wales; you have shown great commitment to devolution. The news of your promotion was warmly welcomed within the constituency of Neath—the constituency that we share. Congratulations and best wishes.

Will you join me, Secretary of State, in welcoming the introduction of a Bill to improve international co-operation on tackling crime, and will you confirm that the Bill will cover paedophilia and the abuse of children through the misuse of the internet? The inclusion of these child protection measures would be consistent with the Labour Government’s commitment to prioritising children’s issues and would also be in keeping with the United Nations’ charter on the rights of the child.

yn Saesneg A wnewch ymuno â mi, Ysgrifennydd Gwladol, i groesawu cyflwyno Mesur i wella’r cydweithredu rhyngwladol ar ymladd troseddu, ac a wnewch gadarnhau y bydd y Mesur yn ymdrin â phedoffilia a cham-drin plant drwy gamddefnyddio’r rhyngrwyd? Byddai cynnwys y mesurau amddiffyn plant hynny’n gyson ag ymrwymiad y Llywodraeth Lafur i roi blaenoriaeth i faterion plant a byddai’n unol hefyd â siarter y Cenhedloedd Unedig ar hawliau’r plentyn.

The Secretary of State for Wales The Secretary of State for Wales spoken in English p. 66

The Secretary of State for Wales Ysgrifennydd Gwladol Cymru siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 66

Thank you, Gwenda. I can confirm that the Queen’s Speech contains legislation to tackle these issues. I refer, particularly, to the use of the internet by paedophiles, to trap and attract young children. This process of grooming children is evil and is specifically targeted in one of the Bills in the Queen’s Speech. I join with you in condemning this practice, and in welcoming the fact that we are about to legislate to make it illegal, so that we can clamp down on it.

Diolch i chi, Gwenda. Gallaf gadarnhau bod Araith y Frenhines yn cynnwys deddfwriaeth i fynd i’r afael â’r materion hynny. Cyfeiriaf, yn benodol, at ddefnyddio’r rhyngrwyd gan bedoffiliaid, i ddal a denu plant ifanc. Mae’r broses hon o baratoi plant yn ddrwg ac fe’i targedir yn benodol yn un o’r Mesurau yn Araith y Frenhines. Ymunaf â chi i gollfarnu’r arfer hwn, a chroesawu’r ffaith ein bod ar fin deddfu i’w wneud yn anghyfreithlon, fel y gallwn roi pen arno.

Nick Bourne spoken in English p. 66

Nick Bourne siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 66

I congratulate Peter Hain on his first official visit here as Secretary of State for Wales; I can understand the pride that he must feel. I hope that he will be present when we debate the Queen’s Speech because, although many will speak today, not all Members will be able to do so. Many will speak on another occasion and—unlike others previously—I am sure he would win plaudits if he attended our debate on the Queen’s Speech. That would be widely welcomed.

Llongyfarchaf Peter Hain ar ei ymweliad cyntaf yma fel Ysgrifennydd Gwladol Cymru; gallaf ddeall y balchder y mae’n sicr o’i deimlo. Gobeithiaf y bydd yn bresennol pan gawn ddadl ar Araith y Frenhines oherwydd, er y bydd llawer yn siarad heddiw, ni fydd pob Aelod yn gallu gwneud hynny. Bydd llawer yn siarad ar achlysur arall ac—yn wahanol i eraill o’r blaen—yr wyf yn siŵr y câi glod os deuai i’n dadl ar Araith y Frenhines. Byddai llawer yn croesawu hynny.

It was interesting to hear the Secretary of State speak about partnership; the First Minister looked relieved. However, I must correct Ieuan Wyn Jones: I do not think that Rhodri Morgan was Peter Hain’s second choice for First Minister, I think he was his third. I do not doubt, however, that the partnership can be built over a period of time.

Diddorol oedd clywed yr Ysgrifennydd Gwladol yn sôn am bartneriaeth; yr oedd golwg o ryddhad ar y Prif Weinidog. Fodd bynnag, rhaid imi gywiro Ieuan Wyn Jones; ni chredaf mai Rhodri Morgan oedd ail ddewis Peter Hain i fod yn Brif Weinidog, credaf mai ef oedd y trydydd. Er hynny, nid wyf yn amau na ellir meithrin y bartneriaeth dros gyfnod o amser.

The Secretary of State’s statement read a little like a party political broadcast for the Labour Party—after all, he is a Labour politician. I take issue with him on some of the figures he gave in relation to waiting lists. The position in Wales is dire; it is far worse than it is in England and far worse than it was in Wales five years ago. It has got worse, month after month, under the present First Minister, barring only one month. As I have previously said to the First Minister, we are losing beds in care homes at an accelerating rate. It is creating a problem, not just for the care homes or the individuals there—it is also having a dreadful knock-on effect on the national health service. I question whether the proposals in the Queen’s Speech will go any way towards addressing that issue.

Yr oedd datganiad yr Ysgrifennydd Gwladol yn swnio’n debyg braidd i ddarllediad gwleidyddol ar ran y Blaid Lafur—gwleidydd Llafur ydyw, wedi’r cwbl. Anghytunaf ag ef ar rai o’r ffigurau a roddodd am restrau aros. Mae’r sefyllfa yng Nghymru’n druenus; mae’n waeth o lawer nag yn Lloegr ac yn waeth o lawer nag yr oedd yng Nghymru bum mlynedd yn ôl. Mae wedi gwaethygu, fis ar ôl mis, dan y Prif Weinidog presennol, heblaw am un mis. Fel y dywedais o’r blaen wrth y Prif Weinidog, yr ydym yn colli gwelyau mewn cartrefi gofal yn gyflymach. Mae’n creu problem, nid yn unig i’r cartrefi gofal neu’r unigolion ynddynt—mae hefyd yn cael effaith ganlyniadol ofnadwy ar y gwasanaeth iechyd gwladol. Amheuaf a fydd y cynigion yn Araith y Frenhines yn cyfrannu o gwbl at ymdrin â’r mater hwnnw.

The Queen’s Speech seems to have been put together by a focus group. It may contain some good items—all Queen’s Speeches do. However, let us look at the record. Tony Blair told the Labour faithful at the party conference in Blackpool that the Government is at its best when it is at its boldest. There is little evidence of that in the Queen’s Speech. The hunting issue has been fudged; the euro has been dodged; the reform of the House of Lords has been skirted; mental health has been avoided; and the promised reform of an increasingly politicised Civil Service has been buried—and that is an urgent issue. Pension plans and top-up fees—quite possibly the most contentious issues of the coming months—have been kicked into the long grass with a heavy boot; there is nothing in the speech on them. What did make it into the Queen’s Speech was a hotchpotch of Bills that represent a missed opportunity to meet the needs of Britain and Wales. Of course, everyone in Wales wants to see the Government tackle spiralling crime and bring offenders to justice. However, the Government’s record on crime and anti-social behaviour makes it difficult to see how the law and order Bills announced in the Queen’s Speech are much more than an empty gesture. We have had 12 criminal justice Bills since 1997, and still we have a system in disarray: assaults and muggings are on the increase; five crimes are committed every second; and in 80 per cent of crimes recorded by the Police, the offender goes unpunished. The Anti-Social Behaviour Bill is aimed at tackling crimes such as graffiti, fly-tipping and vandalism; of course we support such measures, but the Government’s track record in these matters fails to inspire much confidence. It has promised 5,000 anti-social behaviour orders a year. This year, less than 200 have been issued in England and Wales. Only 25 have ever been used in Wales. This is symbolic of a Government that seeks to govern through initiative rather than a long-term, coherent strategy that is geared towards tackling the problem at its roots.

Mae’n ymddangos bod Araith y Frenhines wedi’i llunio gan grŵp ffocws. Efallai fod rhai eitemau da ynddi—fe’u ceir ym mhob Araith y Frenhines. Serch hynny, gadewch inni edrych ar yr hanes. Dywedodd Tony Blair wrth ffyddloniaid Llafur yng nghynhadledd y blaid yn Blackpool fod y Llywodraeth ar ei gorau pan yw’n fwyaf eofn. Prin yw’r dystiolaeth i hynny yn Araith y Frenhines. Osgowyd mater hela; gochelwyd rhag mater yr ewro; aed heibio i fater diwygio Tŷ’r Arglwyddi; osgowyd iechyd meddwl; a chladdwyd yr addewid i ddiwygio’r Gwasanaeth Sifil mwyfwy gwleidyddoledig—ac mae hwnnw’n fater brys. Mae cynlluniau pensiwn a ffïoedd ychwanegol—y materion mwyaf dadleuol yn y misoedd sydd i ddod, mae’n ddigon posibl—wedi’u bwrw o’r neilltu; nid oes dim yn yr araith amdanynt. Yr hyn a lwyddodd i gael lle yn Araith y Frenhines oedd cawl o Fesurau sy’n colli’r cyfle i ddiwallu anghenion Prydain a Chymru. Wrth gwrs, mae pawb yng Nghymru am weld y Llywodraeth yn mynd i’r afael â throseddu cynyddol a rhoi troseddwyr o flaen eu gwell. Fodd bynnag, mae record y Llywodraeth ar droseddu ac ymddygiad gwrthgymdeithasol yn peri ei bod yn anodd gweld bod y Mesurau cyfraith a threfn a gyhoeddwyd yn Araith y Frenhines yn fawr mwy nag ystum ofer. Cawsom 12 Mesur cyfiawnder troseddol ers 1997, ac mae gennym system sydd mewn anhrefn o hyd: mae ymosod a mygio ar gynnydd; cyflawnir pum trosedd bob eiliad; ac yn 80 y cant o’r troseddau a gofnodir gan yr Heddlu, nid yw’r troseddwr yn cael cosb. Bwriad y Mesur Ymddygiad Gwrthgymdeithasol yw ymdrin â throseddau fel graffiti, taflu sbwriel a fandaliaeth; yr ydym yn cefnogi mesurau o’r fath, wrth gwrs, ond nid yw record y Llywodraeth ar y materion hyn yn ennyn llawer o hyder. Addawodd 5,000 o orchmynion ymddygiad gwrthgymdeithasol y flwyddyn. Eleni, cyhoeddwyd llai na 200 yng Nghymru a Lloegr. Dim ond 25 a ddefnyddiwyd erioed yng Nghymru. Mae hyn yn symbolaidd o Lywodraeth sy’n ceisio llywodraethu drwy fentrau yn hytrach na strategaeth gydlynol, dymor hir a gyweiriwyd i fynd i’r afael â’r broblem wrth ei gwraidd.

The Government has fudged the hunting issue—although, why it appears on the Government’s agenda at all beggars belief. We are in the middle of the worst agricultural recession since the 1930s. Poor transport, inadequate broadband communications, pressures on village shops, pubs and sub-post offices all affect people’s ability to find work and an acceptable quality of life in the countryside. To concentrate on hunting, thereby criminalising thousands of our most law-abiding and responsible citizens—[Laughter.] I hope that people note who was laughing, because they certainly are law-abiding and responsible citizens drawn from communities that are still recovering from the effects of foot and mouth disease while—[Interruption.] The First Minister is speaking from a sedentary position again; he does not agree. While so many other problems beset the industry, he betrays a perverse sense of priorities.

Mae’r Llywodraeth wedi osgoi mater hela—er ei bod yn syfrdanol ei fod ar agenda’r Llywodraeth o gwbl. Yr ydym yng nghanol y dirwasgiad amaethyddol gwaethaf ers y 1930au. Mae trafnidiaeth wael, cyfathrebu band eang annigonol, pwysau ar siopau pentref, tafarnau ac is-swyddfeydd post i gyd yn effeithio ar allu pobl i ddod o hyd i waith a chael ansawdd bywyd derbyniol yng nghefn gwlad. Mae canolbwyntio ar hela, gan droseddoli miloedd o’n dinasyddion mwyaf deddfgarol a chyfrifol—[Chwerthin.] Gobeithiaf fod rhai’n nodi pwy a oedd yn chwerthin, gan eu bod yn sicr yn ddinasyddion deddfgarol a chyfrifol mewn cymunedau sy’n dal i ymadfer ar ôl effeithiau clwy’r traed a’r genau tra—[Torri ar draws.] Mae’r Prif Weinidog yn siarad ar ei eistedd eto; nid yw’n cytuno. Tra bo cynifer o broblemau eraill yn cau am y diwydiant, mae’n amlygu syniad gwrthnysig am flaenoriaethau.

In an insubstantial and sometimes malign offering by the Government, it is irksome yet somehow predictable that one Bill that has the right approach to improving our failing public services will not be adopted by the National Assembly. I refer to the Government’s plans for foundation hospitals, which do not go far enough in England, though the basic idea is right. Giving our patients a greater say in the delivery of services, trusting our doctors with more freedom and removing politicians from the NHS is the best way to raise standards in our health service and cut waiting lists, which are at a record high in Wales. Trusting our professionals, empowering our patients and removing daily control from politicians are ideas that strike against the socialist doctrine of command and control. Foundation hospitals will not, therefore, be appearing in Wales. This will ensure that our hospitals are left lagging behind, and that our patients will have to make do with being treated in a type of system that was dismantled in eastern Europe almost as soon as the communist regimes were overthrown. That is not an attack on the professionalism of doctors, nurses and consultants; quite the reverse, we should let them get on with running the system. One of the few promising Bills in the Queen’s Speech will, therefore, not be taken forward in Wales because socialist politicians do not have the ability to do what is patently necessary for the sake of the health service—take themselves out of it.

Mewn offrwm gan y Llywodraeth sy’n ansylweddol ac yn niweidiol mewn rhannau, diflas ond rhagweladwy rywsut yw bod un Mesur sy’n iawn yn ei agwedd at wella ein gwasanaethau cyhoeddus diffygiol na chaiff ei fabwysiadu gan y Cynulliad Cenedlaethol. Cyfeiriaf at gynlluniau’r Llywodraeth ar gyfer ysbytai sefydledig, nad ydynt yn mynd yn ddigon pell yn Lloegr, er bod y syniad yn iawn yn ei hanfod. Rhoi mwy o lais i’n cleifion yn y dull o ddarparu gwasanaethau, ymddiried mwy o ryddid i’n meddygon a thynnu gwleidyddion o’r GIG yw’r dull gorau o godi safonau yn ein gwasanaeth iechyd a lleihau rhestrau aros, sydd ar eu huchaf erioed yng Nghymru. Mae ymddiried yn ein gweithwyr proffesiynol, galluogi ein cleifion a thynnu rheolaeth feunyddiol oddi wrth wleidyddion yn syniadau sy’n mynd yn groes i’r athrawiaeth sosialaidd o orchymyn a rheoli. Felly, ni welir ysbytai sefydledig yng Nghymru. Bydd hyn yn sicrhau y caiff ein hysbytai eu gadael ar ôl, ac y bydd ein cleifion yn gorfod bodloni ar gael eu trin mewn system o fath a ddatgymalwyd yn nwyrain Ewrop bron cyn gynted ag y trechwyd y llywodraethau comiwnyddol. Nid ymosodiad ar broffesiynoldeb meddygon, nyrsys ac ymgynghorwyr yw hyn; i’r gwrthwyneb yn hollol, dylem adael iddynt fwrw ymlaen â rhedeg y system. Felly, ni fydd un o’r ychydig Fesurau addawol yn Araith y Frenhines yn cael ei weithredu yng Nghymru am nad yw gwleidyddion sosialaidd yn gallu gwneud yr hyn y mae’n amlwg y dylid ei wneud er mwyn y gwasanaeth iechyd—mynd a gadael iddo.

The rest of the Queen’s Speech was, by and large, a series of sticking-plaster solutions and frantic legislating by the Government, infringing civil liberties in a desperate attempt to drive up the number of guilty verdicts in our courts when the real task is to remove people from the conveyor belt of crime. It sought to criminalise responsible and law-abiding citizens. It is a Queen’s Speech of missed opportunities.

Yr oedd gweddill Araith y Frenhines, at ei gilydd, yn gyfres o atebion dros dro a deddfu gwyllt gan y Llywodraeth, gan dresmasu ar ryddid sifil mewn ymgais anobeithiol i gynyddu nifer yr euogfarnau yn ein llysoedd er mai’r gorchwyl y mae angen ei gyflawni mewn gwirionedd yw symud pobl oddi ar gludfelt troseddu. Ceisiodd droseddoli dinasyddion cyfrifol a deddfgarol. Araith y Frenhines sy’n llawn cyfleoedd a gollwyd yw hon.

There are few bold measures in the Queen’s Speech. Of course we welcome the removal of the requirement for referenda on licensing in Wales. However, it should offer much more to Wales. There should be attempts to slash red tape. Next year’s proposed national insurance rises will result in job losses. There are no bold measures for education to set teachers free to teach; only plans to introduce top-up fees for university students that will cut access to our top universities. We need bold measures to improve transport too. There is nothing on that in the Queen’s Speech besides the adoption of the Conservative idea of a rail accident investigation branch, which I certainly welcome. This is not Labour at its boldest; it is Labour at its blandest. It is the people of Wales who will suffer.

Mae ychydig o fesurau mentrus yn Araith y Frenhines. Wrth gwrs, yr ydym yn croesawu dileu’r gofyniad am refferenda ar drwyddedu yng Nghymru. Fodd bynnag, dylai gynnig llawer mwy i Gymru. Dylid ceisio torri biwrocratiaeth. Bydd y codiadau arfaethedig mewn yswiriant gwladol y flwyddyn nesaf yn arwain at golli swyddi. Nid oes mesurau mentrus ar gyfer addysg i ryddhau athrawon fel y cânt ddysgu; dim ond cynlluniau i gyflwyno ffïoedd ychwanegol ar gyfer myfyrwyr prifysgol a fydd yn rhwystro mynediad i’n prifysgolion gorau. Mae arnom angen mesurau mentrus i wella trafnidiaeth hefyd. Nid oes dim am hynny yn Araith y Frenhines heblaw am fabwysiadu’r syniad Ceidwadol o gangen ymchwilio i ddamweiniau rheilffordd, yr wyf yn sicr yn ei groesawu. Nid Llafur ar ei fwyaf beiddgar yw hyn, ond Llafur ar ei fwyaf diafael. Pobl Cymru fydd yn dioddef.

The Secretary of State for Wales The Secretary of State for Wales spoken in English p. 70

The Secretary of State for Wales Ysgrifennydd Gwladol Cymru siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 70

I thank Nick Bourne for his congratulations on my appointment; I am indeed proud. He asked if I would be present for your debate on the Queen’s Speech; discussions are being held at present to arrange for that to take place.

Diolchaf i Nick Bourne am fy llongyfarch ar fy mhenodi; yr wyf yn teimlo’n falch yn wir. Gofynnodd a fyddwn yn bresennol ar gyfer eich dadl ar Araith y Frenhines; cynhelir trafodaethau ar hyn o bryd i drefnu hynny.

On waiting lists, we do not deny that we inherited a dreadful situation in 1997 from the previous regime in Wales, and that it has been difficult turning it around. However, a great deal of progress has been made, with orthopaedic and cardiac cases for example, and Jane Hutt has taken that forward with support and funding, negotiated by the Secretary of State for Wales, from the Chancellor of the Exchequer; investment has reached record levels in the health service in Wales. More patients are being treated than ever before and many more staff are being recruited.

Ar restrau aros, nid ydym yn gwadu na wnaethom etifeddu sefyllfa ofnadwy yn 1997 gan y Llywodraeth flaenorol yng Nghymru, ac na fu’n anodd ei thrawsnewid. Fodd bynnag, gwnaed llawer iawn o gynnydd, gydag achosion orthopedig a chardïaidd er enghraifft, ac mae Jane Hutt wedi hyrwyddo hynny drwy roi cymorth a chyllid, a negodwyd gan Ysgrifennydd Gwladol Cymru, oddi wrth Ganghellor y Trysorlys; mae’r buddsoddi yn y gwasanaeth iechyd yng Nghymru ar ei fwyaf erioed. Mae mwy o gleifion yn cael eu trin nag erioed o’r blaen ac mae llawer iawn mwy o staff yn cael eu recriwtio.

Nick Bourne referred to pensions. A Green Paper on pensions will be published probably early next year, and that was indeed part of the Queen’s Speech. Also included was a review of higher education funding, to which I referred in my opening statement. He says that we are fudging hunting, but the Queen’s Speech included a Bill on hunting. The United Kingdom Parliament has voted in favour of a ban on hunting on several occasions, so it is quite right that Parliament should now be given the opportunity to decide what it wants to do on this matter. This is one in more than 20 Bills. He cannot really say that that gives priority to what he referred to as—if I am right—a peripheral issue.

Cyfeiriodd Nick Bourne at bensiynau. Cyhoeddir Papur Gwyrdd ar bensiynau ddechrau’r flwyddyn nesaf, yn ôl pob tebyg, ac yr oedd hynny’n rhan o Araith y Frenhines mewn gwirionedd. Yr oedd hefyd yn cynnwys adolygiad o gyllido addysg uwch, y cyfeiriais ato yn fy natganiad agoriadol. Dywed ein bod yn osgoi mater hela, ond yr oedd Araith y Frenhines yn cynnwys Mesur ar hela. Mae Senedd y Deyrnas Unedig wedi pleidleisio o blaid gwahardd hela ar sawl achlysur, felly mae’n gwbl briodol y dylid rhoi cyfle i’r Senedd yn awr i benderfynu beth y mae am ei wneud ar y mater hwn. Mae hyn yn un o fwy na 20 o Fesurau. Ni all ddweud mewn gwirionedd fod hynny’n rhoi blaenoriaeth i rywbeth a alwodd—os wyf yn gywir—yn fater ymylol.

Nick Bourne described broadband communications as inadequate; it is significant—and I am sure that Andrew Davies will echo this—that when I had a meeting with the chief executive officer of BT the other week, he said that the roll-out of broadband in Wales was better than anywhere else in Britain, and ahead of most other parts of Europe. He also said—and I thought that this was a significant commentary on the devolution settlement and how the Welsh Assembly Government is working—that he found it more productive to work with the Welsh Assembly Government on this matter than with any other level of government anywhere in Britain. That is a great tribute to the Cabinet’s work and, indeed, to the priority that it has given to broadband with the backing of the Assembly. I think that Nick Bourne ought to acknowledge that.

Dywedodd Nick Bourne fod cyfathrebu band eang yn annigonol; mae’n werth nodi—ac yr wyf yn sicr y bydd Andrew Davies yn ategu hyn—fod prif swyddog gweithredol BT wedi dweud, pan gefais gyfarfod ag ef yr wythnos o’r blaen, fod y band eang yn cael ei roi ar waith yn well yng Nghymru nag yn unman arall ym Mhrydain, ac yn gynt nag yn y rhan fwyaf o Ewrop. Dywedodd hefyd—a thybiais fod hyn yn sylw o bwys am y setliad datganoli a dull gweithredu Llywodraeth Cynulliad Cymru—ei fod yn ei chael yn fwy cynhyrchiol gweithio gyda Llywodraeth Cynulliad Cymru ar y mater hwn na chydag unrhyw lefel arall o lywodraeth yn unman ym Mhrydain. Mae hynny’n deyrnged fawr i waith y Cabinet ac, yn wir, i’r flaenoriaeth a roddodd i’r band eang gyda chefnogaeth y Cynulliad. Credaf y dylai Nick Bourne gydnabod hynny.

On foundation hospitals, I will add to what I said in my statement. The distinction between what we, as a Labour Government, are doing in Westminster, and what is being done by the Welsh Assembly Government on health policy, is that we are not going down the road that the Conservatives want to travel—that of increased privatisation and more cuts. That is the distinction between what is being pursued by the Westminster and Welsh Assembly Governments and the policies that Nick Bourne would advocate. Although he bemoans the fact that the Assembly’s Cabinet has decided not to pursue the option of foundation hospitals, that is exactly what devolution means. It means that the Assembly, the Cabinet and the Government can pursue different policies from those being pursued in London—Wales’s needs and values are different.

Ynghylch ysbytai sefydledig, ymhelaethaf ar yr hyn a ddywedais yn fy natganiad. Y gwahaniaeth rhwng yr hyn yr ydym ni, fel Llywodraeth Lafur, yn ei wneud yn San Steffan, a’r hyn a wneir gan Lywodraeth Cynulliad Cymru ar bolisïau iechyd, yw nad ydym yn dilyn yr un ffordd ag y mae’r Ceidwadwyr am ei dilyn—sef mwy o breifateiddio a rhagor o doriadau. Dyna’r gwahaniaeth rhwng yr hyn a geisir gan Lywodraethau San Steffan a Chynulliad Cymru a’r polisïau y byddai Nick Bourne yn dadlau drostynt. Er ei fod yn cwyno o achos y ffaith bod Cabinet y Cynulliad wedi penderfynu peidio â dilyn y dewis o ysbytai sefydledig, dyna’n union yr hyn y mae datganoli yn ei olygu. Mae’n golygu y gall y Cynulliad, y Cabinet a’r Llywodraeth ddilyn polisïau sy’n wahanol i’r rhai a ddilynir yn Llundain—mae anghenion a gwerthoedd Cymru’n wahanol.

Michael German The Leader of the Welsh Liberal Democrat Group spoken in English p. 72

Michael German Arweinydd Grŵp Democratiaid Rhyddfrydol Cymru siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 72

I welcome you as Secretary of State for Wales on behalf of the Welsh Liberal Democrats. Given the uneven devolution settlement, it will be a challenge for you to satisfy the ongoing demands of the National Assembly. Much of the Queen’s Speech is sensible. However, for the greater part, it a missed opportunity for Wales. The Welsh Liberal Democrats regret that it only contains one Wales-only Bill. We cannot abolish tuition fees in Wales, as the Rees report recommended, without primary legislation. We cannot abolish prescription charges for all, or reintroduce free dental checks for all without Westminster enacting the necessary primary legislation. We cannot introduce free personal care without primary legislation. The devolution settlement has left us dangling on Westminster’s apron strings, and we cannot even make St David’s Day a public holiday in Wales. That proposal has been put forward by the Welsh Assembly Government on two occasions. I note your remarks on the Richard commission, and I hope therefore, that you will support its conclusions through the Whitehall Government. That will be an essential process, to take forward the kind of changes that many of us want to see. We welcome the Health (Wales) Bill, which will be moved tomorrow. It retains and strengthens the role of community health councils in Wales; we campaigned for their creation, and remain staunchly in favour of them. Wales is right to steer its own path and keep its CHCs, which are highly valued by the local communities that they serve.

Fe’ch croesawaf fel Ysgrifennydd Gwladol Cymru ar ran Democratiaid Rhyddfrydol Cymru. O ystyried yr ardrefniant datganoli anghyfartal, bydd yn her ichi fodloni gofynion parhaus y Cynulliad Cenedlaethol. Mae llawer sydd yn Araith y Frenhines yn synhwyrol. Er hynny, cyfle a gollwyd ydyw i Gymru gan mwyaf. Gofid i Ddemocratiaid Rhyddfrydol Cymru yw mai dim ond un Mesur i Gymru’n unig sydd ynddi. Ni allwn ddiddymu ffïoedd dysgu yng Nghymru, fel yr argymhellodd adroddiad Rees, heb ddeddfwriaeth sylfaenol. Ni allwn ddiddymu taliadau presgripsiwn i bawb, neu ailgyflwyno archwiliadau deintyddol am ddim i bawb heb i San Steffan wneud y ddeddfwriaeth sylfaenol angenrheidiol. Ni allwn gyflwyno gofal personol am ddim heb ddeddfwriaeth sylfaenol. Mae’r ardrefniant datganoli wedi ein gadael ynghlwm wrth linyn ffedog San Steffan, ac ni allwn hyd yn oed wneud Dydd Gŵyl Dewi’n ŵyl gyhoeddus yng Nghymru. Mae Llywodraeth Cynulliad Cymru wedi cyflwyno’r cynnig hwnnw ar ddau achlysur. Nodaf eich sylwadau am gomisiwn Richard, a gobeithiaf, felly, y gwnewch gefnogi ei gasgliadau drwy Lywodraeth San Steffan. Bydd hynny’n broses hanfodol, i weithredu’r math o newidiadau y mae llawer ohonom am eu gweld. Croesawn y Mesur Iechyd (Cymru), a gynigir yfory. Mae’n cadw ac yn cryfhau rôl y cynghorau iechyd cymunedol yng Nghymru; gwnaethom ymgyrchu dros eu creu, ac yr ydym yn dal i fod yn gadarn o’u plaid. Mae’n iawn i Gymru ddilyn ei llwybr ei hun a chadw ei chynghorau iechyd cymunedol, a drysorir yn fawr gan y cymunedau lleol a wasanaethant.

While we welcome many of the criminal justice reforms, which seem to be the main thrust of the Queen’s Speech, some measures are profoundly illiberal. The Welsh Liberal Democrats do not support the restriction of jury trials, and neither should the National Assembly. On 19 December 2000, the Assembly carried an amendment, which stated that the restriction of jury trial was a serious erosion of civil liberty—that is still the case. The tightening of bail rules, with a presumption of custodial remand for class A drug users, is also an issue that causes disquiet. Dumping those people in jail as soon as possible is not the answer. We must ensure that rehabilitation centres are available to them while they are on bail. That would be more effective. The abolition of double jeopardy is a cause of great concern. We stressed in Westminster that we also strongly opposed making that change retrospective. The abolition of double jeopardy is deeply illiberal, and it gives powers to the police and the Crown Prosecution Service to hound people who have been found not guilty. If the police do their job and investigate cases thoroughly, there is no need to abolish double jeopardy. How many times will people be tried for the same crime—over and over until they crack up, or confess? That is why some measures must be thoroughly reviewed by Westminster as to whether they are liberal and just.

Er ein bod yn croesawu llawer o’r diwygiadau mewn cyfiawnder troseddol, sef prif fyrdwn Araith y Frenhines, yn ôl pob golwg, mae rhai mesurau’n dra anrhyddfrydol. Nid yw Democratiaid Rhyddfrydol Cymru’n cefnogi cyfyngu ar dreialon o flaen rheithgor, ac ni ddylai’r Cynulliad Cenedlaethol ychwaith. Ar 19 Rhagfyr 2000, derbyniodd y Cynulliad welliant, a ddatganai fod cyfyngu ar dreialon o flaen rheithgor yn ymosodiad difrifol ar ryddid sifil—ac mae hynny’n dal i fod yn wir. Mae tynhau’r rheolau mechnïaeth, gan ragdybio y bydd defnyddwyr cyffuriau dosbarth A yn cael eu cadw yn y ddalfa, yn fater sy’n peri anesmwythyd hefyd. Nid taflu’r bobl hynny i’r carchar cyn gynted ag y bo modd yw’r ateb. Rhaid inni sicrhau bod canolfannau ailsefydlu ar gael iddynt tra ydynt ar fechnïaeth. Byddai hynny’n fwy effeithiol. Mae diddymu’r gwaharddiad ar erlyniad dwbl yn peri pryder mawr hefyd. Gwnaethom bwysleisio yn San Steffan ein bod hefyd yn gadarn yn erbyn gwneud y newid hwnnw’n un ôl-weithredol. Mae diddymu’r gwaharddiad ar erlyniad dwbl yn dra anrhyddfrydol, ac mae’n rhoi pwerau i’r heddlu a Gwasanaeth Erlyn y Goron i erlid pobl a gafwyd yn ddieuog. Os yw’r heddlu’n gwneud eu gwaith ac yn ymchwilio i achosion yn drylwyr, nid oes angen dileu’r gwaharddiad ar erlyniad dwbl. Sawl gwaith y caiff pobl eu rhoi ar brawf am yr un trosedd—dro ar ôl tro nes eu bod yn torri, neu’n cyfaddef? Dyna pam y mae’n rhaid i San Steffan adolygu rhai o’r mesurau’n drwyadl i ganfod a ydynt yn rhyddfrydol ac yn gyfiawn.

Will you shed some light on the mental health Bill? There is much confusion as to whether there will be such a Bill in this parliamentary session. It was a notable omission from the Queen’s Speech on 13 November. However, Alan Milburn informed the House of Commons the next day that he would bring forward a Bill during this session. That begs the question as to why it was not in the Queen’s Speech. Is it becoming the Marie Celeste of the parliamentary session? Perhaps, Peter, you could clarify this ghostly affair for us. I note that the Law Society, the Royal College of Psychiatrists and the Mental Health Alliance expressed deep concerns about the draft Bill. Measures must be taken, and they must be improved. It is worrying that Alan Milburn seems intent on introducing what was widely viewed as a flawed piece of legislation when it was put out to consultation. Will you enlighten us on that matter?

A wnewch daflu rhywfaint o oleuni ar y Mesur iechyd meddwl? Mae llawer o ddryswch ynghylch a fydd Mesur o’r fath yn y sesiwn seneddol hon. Yr oedd yn drawiadol ei fod wedi’i hepgor o Araith y Frenhines ar 13 Tachwedd. Fodd bynnag, rhoddodd Alan Milburn wybod i Dŷ’r Cyffredin y diwrnod wedyn y byddai’n dwyn Mesur gerbron yn ystod y sesiwn hwn. Rhaid gofyn pam nad oedd yn Araith y Frenhines. Ai Marie Celeste y sesiwn seneddol fydd ef? Efallai y gallech egluro’r mater drychiolaethol hwn i ni, Peter. Nodaf fod Cymdeithas y Gyfraith, Coleg Brenhinol y Seiciatryddion a’r Gynghrair Iechyd Meddwl wedi mynegi pryderon mawr ynghylch y Mesur drafft. Rhaid cymryd camau, a rhaid eu gwella. Mae’n ofid bod Alan Milburn yn benderfynol, yn ôl pob golwg, o gyflwyno’r hyn a ystyriwyd gan lawer yn fesur diffygiol pan ddosbarthwyd ef ar gyfer ymgynghori. A wnewch ein goleuo ar y mater hwnnw?

I referred at the beginning to the uneven devolution settlement, and you referred to the Richard commission, which is looking in depth at the powers and structure of our National Assembly. Its report will be published shortly after the next election, and we will be giving our evidence to it soon. Your task will be to ensure that the commission’s recommendations are driven through Whitehall Government, and that time is found for them within the Westminster Government timetable. Many of us feel that this uneven devolution settlement causes great difficulty in many respects by not allowing us to do what we want to do.

Cyfeiriais ar y dechrau at yr ardrefniant datganoli anghyfartal, a gwnaethoch gyfeirio at gomisiwn Richard, sy’n edrych yn fanwl ar bwerau a strwythur ein Cynulliad Cenedlaethol. Cyhoeddir ei adroddiad yn fuan ar ôl yr etholiad nesaf, a byddwn yn rhoi ein tystiolaeth iddo cyn hir. Eich gwaith chi fydd sicrhau y caiff argymhellion y comisiwn eu gyrru drwy Lywodraeth Whitehall, ac y ceir amser ar eu cyfer yn amserlen Llywodraeth San Steffan. Mae llawer ohonom yn teimlo bod yr ardrefniant datganoli anghyfartal hwn yn peri trafferth mawr ar lawer ystyr drwy beidio â chaniatáu inni wneud yr hyn a ddymunwn.

The Secretary of State for Wales The Secretary of State for Wales spoken in English p. 74

The Secretary of State for Wales Ysgrifennydd Gwladol Cymru siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 74

On the issue that you began and ended with, namely, the devolution settlement, you invite me to support the conclusions of the Richard commission, when I do not even know what they will be. I will want to study carefully—as will other members of the United Kingdom Cabinet—the commission’s conclusions, and I will be giving evidence, as I am sure will many others. Let us wait and see what those conclusions are, and then decide where we go from there. Mike German should not run down the devolution settlement. It has achieved, as I mentioned in my statement, an enormous amount for Wales, including policies that have led to Assembly learning grants and free bus passes for pensioners, which have not been introduced in England. That is what we have been able to achieve through devolution. The people of Neath, whom Gwenda Thomas and I represent, are not preoccupied with the exact minutiae of the devolution settlement, they do not talk about it in the pubs of Neath every evening when they go for a pint; they are concerned about delivery and the difference that the Assembly makes to the quality of life in Wales. It has already made a huge difference, and it can make a greater difference with its existing powers. Carwyn Jones and Jane Hutt have stated in their evidence that their jobs as Ministers are proceeding perfectly adequately under existing powers. That is not to say that we cannot discuss how the future might evolve—of course we can; that is the purpose of the Richard commission, and I have a great deal of interest in, and sympathy with, this matter. We ought to put this in perspective. I said that we in the political class, including Members of Parliament in Westminster in the media bubble that we inhabit, seem to be talking to ourselves too much. It is vital that we talk about the issues, about the implementation and delivery of improvements on the ground, and the difference that that makes, rather than being preoccupied with structures and constitutions—not that there is not an issue to address there.

Ynghylch y mater y gwnaethoch sôn amdano ar y dechrau ac ar y diwedd, sef yr ardrefniant datganoli, yr ydych yn fy ngwahodd i gefnogi casgliadau comisiwn Richard, a minnau heb wybod beth fyddant. Byddaf am astudio casgliadau’r comisiwn yn ofalus—fel y bydd aelodau eraill o Gabinet y Deyrnas Unedig—a byddaf yn rhoi tystiolaeth, fel y bydd eraill, yr wyf yn siŵr. Gadewch inni ddisgwyl i weld beth fydd y casgliadau hynny, ac wedyn penderfynu i ble’r awn o’r fan honno. Ni ddylai Mike German fychanu’r ardrefniant datganoli. Fel y dywedais yn fy natganiad, mae wedi cyflawni llawer iawn dros Gymru, gan gynnwys polisïau sydd wedi arwain at grantiau dysgu’r Cynulliad a thocynnau bws am ddim i bensiynwyr, nad ydynt wedi’u cyflwyno yn Lloegr. Dyna’r hyn yr ydym wedi gallu’i gyflawni drwy ddatganoli. Nid yw pobl Castell-nedd, y mae Gwenda Thomas a minnau’n eu cynrychioli, yn ymgolli ym manylion yr ardrefniant datganoli, nid ydynt yn sôn amdano yn nhafarnau Castell-nedd bob nos pan ânt am ddiod; maent yn ymboeni ynghylch gweithredu a’r gwahaniaeth a wnaiff y Cynulliad i ansawdd bywyd yng Nghymru. Mae wedi gwneud gwahaniaeth aruthrol eisoes, a gall wneud gwahaniaeth mwy gyda’i bwerau presennol. Mae Carwyn Jones a Jane Hutt wedi dweud yn eu tystiolaeth bod eu swyddi fel Gweinidogion yn mynd ymlaen yn gwbl ddigonol o dan y pwerau presennol. Nid yw hynny’n gyfystyr â dweud na allwn drafod sut y gallai’r dyfodol ddatblygu—gallwn, wrth gwrs; dyna bwrpas comisiwn Richard, ac ymddiddoraf yn fawr yn y mater hwn ac yr wyf yn cydymdeimlo ag ef. Dylem roi hyn mewn persbectif. Dywedais ein bod ni yn y dosbarth gwleidyddol, gan gynnwys Aelodau Seneddol yn San Steffan yn y swigen cyfryngau yr ydym yn byw ynddi, yn ymddangos ein bod yn siarad ormod â ni’n hunain. Mae’n hollbwysig ein bod yn sôn am y materion sy’n codi, am weithredu a chyflawni gwelliannau yn y maes, a’r gwahaniaeth a wnaiff hynny, yn hytrach nag ymgolli mewn strwythurau a chyfansoddiadau—er nad wyf yn dweud nad oes mater sy’n gofyn sylw yn y fan honno.

On the St David’s Day issue, I recognise the strength of feeling behind the calls to make St David’s Day a bank holiday in Wales. However, the Government is concerned about the cost to business and the request that was made for a St David’s Day public holiday did not include an assessment of this issue—[Interruption.]

Ynghylch mater Dydd Gŵyl Dewi, yr wyf yn cydnabod bod teimladau cryf yn gefn i’r galwadau i wneud Dydd Gŵyl Dewi’n ŵyl banc yng Nghymru. Fodd bynnag, mae’r Llywodraeth yn bryderus ynghylch y gost i fusnes ac nid oedd y cais a wnaed am ŵyl gyhoeddus ar Ddydd Gŵyl Dewi yn cynnwys asesiad o’r mater hwnnw—[Torri ar draws.]

Dafydd Elis-Thomas The Presiding Officer spoken in English p. 75

Dafydd Elis-Thomas Y Llywydd siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 75

Order. I will not have this shouting and bawling, wherever it comes from in the Chamber.

Trefn. Ni oddefaf y gweiddi a’r bloeddio hwn, o ble bynnag y daw yn y Siambr.

The Secretary of State for Wales The Secretary of State for Wales spoken in English p. 75

The Secretary of State for Wales Ysgrifennydd Gwladol Cymru siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 75

Crime legislation is a complex matter and is difficult to get right. The legislation introduced has been designed to rebalance the legal system in favour of the victim, while taking account of the impact on civil liberties. A balance must be struck between the civil liberties of those being prosecuted and arrested, and the civil liberties of the victims of crime, whether they be victims of sexual offences, drug-related attacks, anti-social behaviour or crime in general. As a Government, we stand by the victims while protecting the civil liberties of all.

Mae deddfwriaeth ar droseddu’n fater cymhleth ac mae’n anodd ei gael yn iawn. Bwriad y ddeddfwriaeth a gyflwynwyd yw ailfantoli’r system gyfreithiol o blaid y dioddefwr, gan ystyried yr effaith ar ryddid sifil. Rhaid sicrhau cydbwysedd rhwng rhyddid sifil y rhai a gaiff eu herlyn a’u harestio, a rhyddid sifil y rhai sy’n dioddef gan droseddu, pa un a ydynt yn dioddef gan droseddau rhywiol, ymosodiadau sy’n ymwneud â chyffuriau, ymddygiad gwrthgymdeithasol neu droseddu’n gyffredinol. Fel Llywodraeth safwn gyda’r dioddefwyr gan amddiffyn rhyddid sifil pawb.

On the mental health Bill, Mike German asked if I can help him—I will do my best. The discussions surrounding the mental health Bill and the debate that has been generated is welcome because it helps the Government to frame the detailed clauses in a way that will be supported by Parliament. As Mike German said, Alan Milburn has stated that this will come forward in due course.

Ynghylch y Mesur iechyd meddwl, gofynnodd Mike German a allwn ei helpu—gwnaf fy ngorau. Mae’r trafodaethau ynghylch y Mesur iechyd meddwl a’r ddadl a gododd i’w croesawu gan fod hynny’n helpu’r Llywodraeth i lunio’r cymalau manwl mewn modd a gefnogir gan y Senedd. Fel y dywedodd Mike German, mae Alan Milburn wedi datgan y bydd hyn yn cael ei ddwyn gerbron gyda hyn.

Therefore, in short, I believe that the devolution settlement is settling down. It is only in its fourth year, and we should take it forward, improve implementation and delivery and continue to debate how it can be improved. I am open to discussion and ideas of a practical and constructive nature in that regard.

Felly, yn fyr, credaf fod yr ardrefniant datganoli’n ymsefydlogi. Nid yw ond yn ei bedwaredd flwyddyn, a dylem fwrw ymlaen ag ef, gwella’r gweithredu a’r darparu a dal i drafod sut y gellir ei wella. Yr wyf yn agored i drafodaeth a syniadau o natur ymarferol ac adeiladol yn hynny o beth.

Dafydd Elis-Thomas The Presiding Officer spoken in English p. 76

Dafydd Elis-Thomas Y Llywydd siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 76

I am reluctant to curtail questioning to the front row, but we are running late today. The Secretary of State has indicated his intention to act in accordance with Standing Order No. 6.5(vii) and will hopefully make himself available for a further debate, which I would welcome. I will therefore restrict this item to a further five minutes and ask all Members and the Minister to be as brief as possible to protect the time for today’s minority party debate.

Yr wyf yn gyndyn o gyfyngu’r holi i’r rhes flaen, ond yr ydym yn rhedeg yn hwyr heddiw. Mae’r Ysgrifennydd Gwladol wedi nodi ei fwriad i weithredu’n unol â Rheol Sefydlog Rhif 6.5(vii) a bydd yn trefnu ei fod ar gael, gobeithio, ar gyfer dadl bellach, a byddwn yn croesawu hynny. Gan hynny, cyfyngaf yr eitem hon i bum munud pellach a gofynnaf i’r holl Aelodau a’r Gweinidog fod mor gryno ag y bo modd i warchod yr amser ar gyfer y ddadl plaid leiafrifol heddiw.

David Lloyd spoken in English p. 76

David Lloyd siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 76

Does the Secretary of State share my disappointment at the missed opportunity to extend the scope of the Health (Wales) Bill, for example by banning smoking in certain appropriate public buildings and by exercising permissive powers to allow free personal care for the elderly? Plaid Cymru proposed these amendments to the Bill in the Health and Social Services Committee, but they fell. Does the Secretary of State share my disappointment at these omissions, which would have made a considerable contribution towards health and health promotion in Wales? What progress is being made on the extremely contentious draft Mental Health Bill, which excited universal opposition in Wales and which did not appear in the Queen’s Speech? As responsibility for health is devolved to the Assembly, and as we have an excellent adult mental health strategy, will we get a mental health Bill for Wales?

A yw’r Ysgrifennydd Gwladol yn rhannu fy siom ynghylch y cyfle a gollwyd i estyn cwmpas y Mesur Iechyd (Cymru), er enghraifft, drwy wahardd ysmygu mewn rhai adeiladau cyhoeddus priodol a thrwy arfer pwerau goddefol i ganiatáu gofal personol am ddim i’r henoed? Gwnaeth Plaid Cymru gynnig y gwelliannau hynny i’r Mesur yn y Pwyllgor Iechyd a Gwasanaethau Cymdeithasol, ond nis derbyniwyd. A yw’r Ysgrifennydd Gwladol yn siomedig fel minnau am fod y rhain wedi’u gadael allan, gan y byddent wedi cyfrannu’n helaeth at iechyd a hybu iechyd yng Nghymru? Pa gynnydd a wneir ar y Mesur iechyd meddwl drafft tra dadleuol, a enynnodd wrthwynebiad gan bawb yng Nghymru ac nad ymddangosodd yn Araith y Frenhines? Gan fod y cyfrifoldeb dros iechyd wedi’i ddatganoli i’r Cynulliad, a chan fod gennym strategaeth iechyd meddwl ragorol i oedolion, a gawn Fesur iechyd meddwl i Gymru?

The Secretary of State for Wales The Secretary of State for Wales spoken in English p. 76

The Secretary of State for Wales Ysgrifennydd Gwladol Cymru siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 76

I have already answered the question about the mental health Bill. I cannot help you with Plaid Cymru’s amendment on smoking; it is up to you to ensure successful amendments in the Assembly. However, I emphasise that the Government is implementing a new tobacco strategy, which sets out a comprehensive plan of action and which is backed by £100 million over the next three years. The strategy has three main objectives: to reduce smoking among under 16-year-olds, the increase in which is a worrying trend; to help adults, particularly disadvantaged adults, to give up smoking; and to give special support to pregnant women who smoke.

Yr wyf eisoes wedi ateb y cwestiwn am y Mesur iechyd meddwl. Ni allaf eich helpu gyda gwelliant Plaid Cymru ar ysmygu; eich lle chi yw sicrhau llwyddiant eich gwelliannau yn y Cynulliad. Er hynny, pwysleisiaf fod y Llywodraeth yn gweithredu strategaeth tybaco newydd, sy’n cyflwyno cynllun gweithredu cynhwysfawr ac y mae £100 miliwn ar ei gyfer dros y tair blynedd nesaf. Mae tri phrif amcan i’r strategaeth: lleihau ysmygu ymysg rhai dan 16 mlwydd oed, y mae’r cynnydd ynddo’n duedd sy’n peri pryder; helpu oedolion, yn enwedig oedolion dan anfantais, i roi’r gorau i ysmygu; a rhoi cymorth arbennig i fenywod beichiog sy’n ysmygu.

Brian Gibbons spoken in English p. 77

Brian Gibbons siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 77

I congratulate you on your appointment as Secretary of State for Wales, Peter. Many people in my constituency, as in yours, have problems in receiving analogue radio and television signals. That problem will be exacerbated by the roll-out of digital television. Are you happy that the Communications Bill will address the current anomalies, which affect hundreds of people in both our constituencies? I welcome your statement on anti-social tenants. Will you give assurance that particular attention will be paid to the problem of anti-social tenants in private tenancies, as they are a blight on many communities in my constituency? Will you also give assurance that there will be an obligation on landlords to put their house in order in this regard?

Fe’ch llongyfarchaf ar eich penodi’n Ysgrifennydd Gwladol Cymru, Peter. Mae llawer o bobl yn fy etholaeth i, fel eich etholaeth chi, yn profi problemau wrth dderbyn signalau radio a theledu analog. Gwaethygir y broblem honno wrth i deledu digidol ehangu. A ydych yn fodlon y bydd y Mesur Cyfathrebu yn ymdrin â’r anomaleddau presennol, sy’n effeithio ar gannoedd o bobl yn ein dwy etholaeth? Croesawaf eich datganiad am denantiaid gwrthgymdeithasol. A wnewch roi sicrwydd y rhoddir sylw penodol i broblem tenantiaid gwrthgymdeithasol mewn tenantiaethau preifat, gan eu bod yn bla mewn llawer o gymunedau yn fy etholaeth i? A wnewch roi sicrwydd hefyd y bydd gorfodaeth ar landlordiaid i roi trefn ar eu pethau yn hyn o beth?

The Secretary of State for Wales The Secretary of State for Wales spoken in English p. 77

The Secretary of State for Wales Ysgrifennydd Gwladol Cymru siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 77

I assure you that anti-social tenants will be targeted under powers introduced by the new legislation. I agree that the denial of access to certain television channels—be that Channel 4 or Channel 5—is a blight for many of our constituents, particularly those in Valleys communities. The Government is aware of the problem; it should be sorted out, and I hope that the Communications Bill will help us do that.

Yr wyf yn eich sicrhau y caiff tenantiaid gwrthgymdeithasol eu targedu dan y pwerau a gyflwynir drwy’r ddeddfwriaeth newydd. Cytunaf fod nacáu’r gallu i dderbyn rhai sianeli teledu—boed yn Channel 4 neu’n Channel 5—yn felltith i lawer o’n hetholwyr, yn enwedig y rhai mewn cymunedau yn y Cymoedd. Mae’r Llywodraeth yn ymwybodol o’r broblem; dylid ei datrys, a gobeithiaf y bydd y Mesur Cyfathrebu yn ein helpu i wneud hynny.

Rhodri Glyn Thomas spoken in English p. 77

Rhodri Glyn Thomas siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 77

Given the undertaking in the Queen’s Speech to finding new ways of meeting our energy needs, and your welcome public commitment to a sustainable, renewable energy industry in Wales, you may need to have a word with the Business Minister and the leader of Bridgend County Borough Council about nimbyism. You may also have to book a place for the Minister for Environment on a rehabilitation course, as she has picked up a nasty habit of calling in all windfarm applications. Will your vision on energy include provision for livestock farmers in Wales to transfer to producing energy crops? Will it also allow deep-mine coal producers in Wales to access operational aid, as well as investment aid? How will the Assembly have input into that process?

Yng ngolwg yr ymgymeriad yn Araith y Frenhines i ddod o hyd i ddulliau newydd o ddiwallu ein hanghenion ynni, a’ch ymrwymiad cyhoeddus derbyniol i ddiwydiant ynni adnewyddadwy, cynaliadwy yng Nghymru, efallai y dylech gael gair â’r Trefnydd ac arweinydd Cyngor Bwrdeistref Sirol Pen-y-bont ar Ogwr am nimbïaeth. Mae’n bosibl hefyd y byddwch yn gorfod trefnu i’r Gweinidog dros yr Amgylchedd gael mynd ar gwrs ailsefydlu, gan ei bod wedi codi cast annifyr o alw i mewn pob cais am fferm wynt. A fydd eich gweledigaeth ar ynni’n cynnwys darpariaeth i ffermwyr da byw yng Nghymru gael troi at gynhyrchu cnydau ynni? A fydd hefyd yn caniatáu i gynhyrchwyr glo glofeydd dwfn gael cymorth gweithredol, yn ogystal â chymorth buddsoddi? Sut y bydd y Cynulliad yn cael mewnbwn i’r broses honno?

The Secretary of State for Wales The Secretary of State for Wales spoken in English p. 78

The Secretary of State for Wales Ysgrifennydd Gwladol Cymru siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 78

As you know, deep mines such as Bettws colliery can access Government aid under the European Commission’s state aid provisions. Bettws colliery has benefited from at least two tranches of substantial assistance under this Government. I welcome the opportunity to repeat briefly to the Assembly my recent comments on energy policy. I am a strong believer in Wales being a pace-setter and a path breaker in terms of renewable, green energy. There are two obstacles to that: first, ensuring the necessary priority and funding and, secondly, dealing with the plague of nimbyism, whereby everyone says that they want green energy, but do not want it in their neighbourhood. The Assembly and the Westminster Government must tackle this together because it will affect future generations. Climate change is already having a serious effect and it will have a devastating effect in future decades. It will have an impact, for example, on the Welsh coastline, and the UK coastline, as the Arctic ice caps melt and sea levels. We need a serious strategy to reduce carbon dioxide emissions and, for me, renewable energy is the engine to achieve that reduction. I hope that Wales will lead the way in terms of achieving that objective.

Fel y gwyddoch, gall glofeydd dwfn fel glofa’r Betws gael cymorth Llywodraeth o dan ddarpariaethau cymorth gwladol y Comisiwn Ewropeaidd. Mae glofa’r Betws wedi elwa ar o leiaf ddau gyfraniad o gymorth sylweddol o dan y Llywodraeth hon. Croesawaf y cyfle i ailadrodd yn fyr i’r Cynulliad fy sylwadau diweddar ar bolisi ynni. Yr wyf yn credu’n gryf y dylai Cymru arwain y ffordd ac arloesi yng nghyd-destun ynni gwyrdd, adnewyddadwy. Mae dau rwystr i hynny: yn gyntaf, sicrhau’r flaenoriaeth a’r cyllid angenrheidiol ac, yn ail, delio â’r pla o nimbïaeth lle y dywed pawb eu bod am gael ynni gwyrdd, ond nad ydynt am ei gael yn eu cymdogaeth hwy. Rhaid i’r Cynulliad a Llywodraeth San Steffan fynd i’r afael â hyn gyda’i gilydd gan y bydd yn effeithio ar genedlaethau’r dyfodol. Mae newid yn yr hinsawdd yn cael effaith ddifrifol eisoes a chaiff effaith ddinistriol mewn degawdau i ddod. Bydd yn effeithio, er enghraifft, ar arfordir Cymru, ac arfordir y DU, wrth i gapan rhew’r Arctig ddadmer a lefelau’r môr godi. Mae arnom angen strategaeth ddifrif i leihau gollyngiadau o garbon deuocsid ac, yn fy ngolwg i, ynni adnewyddadwy yw’r peirianwaith i sicrhau’r lleihad hwnnw. Gobeithiaf y bydd Cymru’n arwain y ffordd o ran cyflawni’r amcan hwnnw.

Peter Law spoken in English p. 78

Peter Law siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 78

I am delighted to see you here, Secretary of State, in an institution that you did so much to help create. I compliment you on your important work as Wales’s representative in the UK Cabinet. I hope that afternoon has been an experience for you, if only in terms of witnessing the downmarket, ragbag opposition in the Assembly.

Yr wyf wrth fy modd o’ch gweld yma, Ysgrifennydd Gwladol, mewn sefydliad y gwnaethoch gymaint i helpu i’w greu. Fe’ch canmolaf ar eich gwaith pwysig fel cynrychiolydd Cymru yng Nghabinet y DU. Gobeithiaf eich bod wedi cael profiad i’w gofio y prynhawn yma, pe na fyddai hynny ond o ran gweld yr wrthblaid frith a salw yn y Cynulliad.

Dafydd Elis-Thomas The Presiding Officer spoken in English p. 78

Dafydd Elis-Thomas Y Llywydd siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 78

Order. Please ask a question.

Trefn. Gofynnwch gwestiwn, os gwelwch yn dda.

Peter Law spoken in English p. 78

Peter Law siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 78

I wanted to make the point that, this afternoon, convention has been broken again as a Minister has been allowed to ask questions when ordinary AMs were not allowed to do so.

Yr oeddwn am wneud y pwynt bod confensiwn wedi’i dorri eto, y prynhawn yma, gan fod Gweinidog wedi cael gofyn cwestiynau ac Aelodau Cynulliad cyffredin heb gael gwneud hynny.

Dafydd Elis-Thomas The Presiding Officer spoken in English p. 79

Dafydd Elis-Thomas Y Llywydd siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 79

Order. That is a point of order relating to the conduct of the Chair. Mike German was called to ask questions as the leader of the Liberal Democrat group, which is one of four party groups in the Assembly. The Secretary of State’s visit is an annual event, and one that we cherish; may there be many such visits. In that context, it is important that representatives of all party groups are called to speak, regardless of the political balance of Government in the Assembly. I hope that that convention will be established for the future, for as long as the office of Secretary of State for Wales exists.

Trefn. Pwynt o drefn sy’n ymwneud ag ymddygiad y Cadeirydd yw hwnnw. Galwyd ar Mike German i ofyn cwestiynau fel arweinydd grŵp y Democratiaid Rhyddfrydol, sy’n un o bedwar grŵp plaid yn y Cynulliad. Mae ymweliad yr Ysgrifennydd Gwladol yn ddigwyddiad blynyddol ac yn un sy’n annwyl gennym; boed lawer o ymweliadau o’r fath. Yn y cyd-destun hwnnw, mae’n bwysig y gelwir ar gynrychiolwyr yr holl grwpiau plaid i siarad, beth bynnag fo cydbwysedd gwleidyddol y Llywodraeth yn y Cynulliad. Gobeithiaf y sefydlir y confensiwn hwnnw ar gyfer y dyfodol, cyhyd ag y bydd swydd Ysgrifennydd Gwladol Cymru’n bodoli.

Peter Law spoken in English p. 79

Peter Law siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 79

I did not realise that Mike German was speaking on behalf of his hokey-cokey party. The Secretary of State has mentioned excellent proposals and developments that are in the interest of the people of Wales. Does he agree that it is only the Labour Party that is in tune with the needs of the people of Wales and has the vision to deliver on that? Does he also agree that the greatest threat facing Wales is the opposition tradition of talking down our country for political gain?

Ni sylweddolais fod Mike German yn siarad ar ran ei blaid hoci coci. Mae’r Ysgrifennydd Gwladol wedi crybwyll cynigion a datblygiadau rhagorol sydd er budd pobl Cymru. A yw’n cytuno mai dim ond y Blaid Lafur sydd mewn cytgord ag anghenion pobl Cymru ac sydd â’r weledigaeth i fynd â’r maen i’r wal yn hynny o beth? A yw hefyd yn cytuno mai’r bygythiad mwyaf sy’n wynebu Cymru yw traddodiad yr wrthblaid o fychanu ein gwlad er mwyn elw gwleidyddol?

The Secretary of State for Wales The Secretary of State for Wales spoken in English p. 79

The Secretary of State for Wales Ysgrifennydd Gwladol Cymru siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 79

I strongly agree with you and I am grateful for your support, Peter.

Cytunaf yn gryf â chi ac yr wyf yn ddiolchgar am eich cefnogaeth, Peter.

Dafydd Elis-Thomas The Presiding Office spoken in English p. 79

Dafydd Elis-Thomas Y Llywydd siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 79

Thank you, Secretary of State. We hope to see you in the Chamber again either next week or the following week. [Applause.]

Diolch i chi, Ysgrifennydd Gwladol. Gobeithiwn eich gweld yn y Siambr eto un ai’r wythnos nesaf neu’r wythnos ar ôl hynny. [Cymeradwyaeth.]

Yr Amserlen Tri Mis Arfaethedig ar gyfer Busnes y Cynulliad

The Proposed Three-month Timetable of Assembly Business

Carwyn Jones Y Trefnydd siaradwyd yn Gymraeg t. 79

Carwyn Jones The Business Minister spoken in Welsh p. 79

Cynigiaf fod

I propose that

Alun Cairns spoken in English p. 79

Alun Cairns siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 79

I request that the division bell be rung. [ASSEMBLY MEMBERS: ‘Oh.’]

Gofynnaf am ganu cloch y bleidlais. [AELODAU CYNULLIAD: ‘O.’]

Dafydd Elis-Thomas The Presiding Officer spoken in English p. 80

Dafydd Elis-Thomas Y Llywydd siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 80

Order. Do three—

Trefn. A oes tri—

Dafydd Wigley spoken in English p. 80

Dafydd Wigley siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 80

This is an abuse.

Camarfer yw hwn.

Dafydd Elis-Thomas The Presiding Officer spoken in Welsh and English p. 80

Dafydd Elis-Thomas Y Llywydd siaradwyd yn Gymraeg ac yn Saesneg t. 80

Order. It is not yet an abuse. It is in accordance with Standing Orders. Do three Members support the request? I see that they do.

yn Saesneg Trefn. Nid yw’n gamarfer eto. Mae’n unol â’r Rheolau Sefydlog. A oes tri Aelod sy’n cefnogi’r cais? Gwelaf fod.

Glerc, canwch y gloch, os gwelwch yn dda.

in Welsh Clerk, please ring the bell.

Cynnig NDM1224 Carwyn Jones t. 80

Motion NDM1224 Carwyn Jones p. 80

DerbyniwydAdopted O blaidFor 45 YmatalAbstain 0 Yn erbynAgainst 0

Derbyniwyd y cynnig.

Motion carried.

Sut y pleidleisiodd yr AelodauHow Members voted
O blaidFor (45)
  • Lorraine Barrett
  • Mick Bates
  • Peter Black
  • Nick Bourne
  • Rosemary Butler
  • Alun Cairns
  • Christine Chapman
  • Cynog Dafis
  • Jane Davidson
  • Andrew Davies
  • David Davies
  • Janet Davies
  • Jocelyn Davies
  • Richard Edwards
  • Sue Essex
  • Delyth Evans
  • Michael German
  • William Graham
  • John Griffiths
  • Christine Gwyther
  • Alison Halford
  • Brian Hancock
  • Edwina Hart
  • Jane Hutt
  • Ann Jones
  • Carwyn Jones
  • David Ian Jones
  • Elin Jones
  • Gareth Jones
  • Ieuan Wyn Jones
  • Peter Law
  • Huw Lewis
  • David Lloyd
  • Val Lloyd
  • Tom Middlehurst
  • Jonathan Morgan
  • Rhodri Morgan
  • Lynne Neagle
  • Alun Pugh
  • Peter Rogers
  • Karen Sinclair
  • Gwenda Thomas
  • Dafydd Wigley
  • Kirsty Williams
  • Phil Williams

Daeth y Dirprwy Lywydd i’r Gadair am 5.03 p.m.

The Deputy Presiding Officer took the Chair at 5.03 p.m.

Dadl Plaid Leiafrifol (Plaid Cymru)

Minority Party Debate (Plaid Cymru)

Taliadau Premiwm Blynyddol Defaid

Sheep Annual Premium Payments

John Marek The Deputy Presiding Officer spoken in English p. 81

John Marek Y Dirprwy Lywydd siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 81

I have selected amendment 1 in the name of Carwyn Jones, and amendment 2 in the name of Jonathan Morgan. As we are running late I will accept a procedural motion under Standing Order No. 6.18 to extend the session, should any Member propose one. However, we shall see how we get on.

Yr wyf wedi dethol gwelliant 1 yn enw Carwyn Jones, a gwelliant 2 yn enw Jonathan Morgan. Gan ein bod yn rhedeg yn hwyr, yr wyf yn fodlon derbyn cynnig trefniadol dan Reol Sefydlog Rhif 6.18 i estyn hyd y cyfarfod, os ceir cynnig felly gan Aelod. Fodd bynnag, cawn weld sut y defnyddiwn ein hamser.

Rhodri Glyn Thomas siaradwyd yn Gymraeg t. 81

Rhodri Glyn Thomas spoken in Welsh p. 81

Cynigiaf fod

I propose that

Rhodri Glyn Thomas (parhad) siaradwyd yn Gymraeg t. 81

Rhodri Glyn Thomas (continued) spoken in Welsh p. 81

Mae hon yn ddadl eithriadol o bwysig ar gyfer amaethyddiaeth yng Nghymru. Gobeithiaf fod yr holl Aelodau yn derbyn bod y diwydiant wedi profi cyfnod argyfyngus dros y blynyddoedd diwethaf. [AELODAU’R CYNULLIAD: ‘Clywch, clywch.’] Nid oes diben i’r Aelodau Ceidwadol ddweud ‘clywch, clywch’. Maent wedi bod yn chwarae plant drwy’r prynhawn, yn gofyn yn gyson am i’r gloch gael ei chanu ac felly cwtogi ar yr amser ar gyfer y ddadl hon yn gwbl fwriadol. Maent wedi troi eu cefnau ar amaethyddiaeth y prynhawn yma drwy chwarae plant, yn lle canolbwyntio ar faterion o bwys.

This is an exceptionally important debate for agriculture in Wales. I hope that all Members accept that the industry has suffered a period of crisis over the past few years. [ASSEMBLY MEMBERS: ‘Hear, hear.’] There is no point the Conservative Members saying ‘hear, hear’. They have been playing games all afternoon, constantly requesting that the bell be rung, and thus quite deliberately curtailing the time for this debate. They have turned their backs on agriculture this afternoon by playing games, rather than concentrating on important matters.

David Davies a gododd—

David Davies rose—

Rhodri Glyn Thomas siaradwyd yn Gymraeg t. 81

Rhodri Glyn Thomas spoken in Welsh p. 81

Ni dderbyniaf ymyriad gan y Ceidwadwyr. Yr ydych wedi bradychu amaethwyr Cymru y prynhawn yma. Mae hon yn ddadl eithriadol o bwysig, ac mae’n hollbwysig ein bod yn cael ymchwiliad cyhoeddus i’r hyn sydd wedi digwydd.

I will not accept an intervention from the Conservatives. You have betrayed Welsh farmers this afternoon. This is an exceptionally important debate, and it is vital that we have a public inquiry into what has happened.

Yr wyf wedi fy syfrdanu gan welliant Llywodraeth Cymru i’r cynnig hwn. Mae’n welliant hunanfoddhaus, ac yn nodweddiadol o’r Dirprwy Brif Weinidog a’r Gweinidog dros Ddatblygu Gwledig a Chymru Dramor. Mae’n hunanfoddhaus ac, mewn sefyllfa argyfyngus, yn nodi bod ffermwyr yng Nghymru wedi cael eu taliadau cyn ffermwyr yn Lloegr, yr Alban a Gogledd Iwerddon y llynedd. Nid ydym yn sôn am y llynedd, Weinidog. Mae’r argyfwng yn bodoli eleni. Nid oes diben i chi ganmol eich hunan am daliadau y llynedd. Dylai hynny fod wedi digwydd eleni eto.

I am astonished by the Government of Wales’s amendment to this motion. It is a totally self-congratulatory amendment, and typical of the Deputy First Minister and Minister for Rural Development and Wales Abroad. It is self-congratulatory and notes, during a period of crisis, that farmers in Wales received their payments before farmers in England, Scotland and Northern Ireland last year. We are not talking about last year, Minister. The crisis exists this year. There is no point you congratulating yourself on last year’s payments. That should have happened again this year.

Mae’r gwelliant hefyd yn llongyfarch y Llywodraeth am y modd y proseswyd y taliadau. Nid ydym am i chi geisio troi’r ddadl hon, Weinidog, fel y gwnaethoch yr wythnos diwethaf. Llongyfarchwn ninnau’r gweithwyr sydd wedi gweithio’n ddyfal bob awr o’r dydd, ac ar benwythnosau, i sicrhau bod y taliadau hyn wedi eu gwneud o’r diwedd. Y cwestiwn sydd yn rhaid i chi ei ateb yw pam y gorfodwyd hwy i wneud hynny, ac a fydd hyn yn golgyu y bydd yn rhaid iddynt weithio bob awr o’r dydd a phob penwythnos er mwyn gwneud y taliadau eraill?

The amendment also congratulates the Government on the processing of the payments. We do not want you to try to skew this debate, Minister, as you did last week. We also congratulate the workers who have worked diligently during all hours of the day, and on weekends, to ensure that these payments have been made at last. The question that you must answer is why were they forced to do so, and will this mean that they will have to work every hour of the day and every weekend in order to make other payments?

Soniwch eich bod o’r diwedd wedi llwyddo i wneud y taliadau premiwm blynyddol defaid—fis yn hwyrach nag yn Lloegr, yr Alban a Gogledd Iwerddon. Fodd bynnag, beth am y taliadau eraill? Beth am y premiwm buchod sugno?

You say that you have at last managed to make the SAPS payments—a month later than in England, Scotland and Northern Ireland. However, what about the other payments? What about the suckler cow premium?

Dafydd Wigley siaradwyd yn Gymraeg t. 82

Dafydd Wigley spoken in Welsh p. 82

Cyn i chi drafod y taliadau eraill, a ydych yn ymwybodol bod rhai pobl a oedd yn disgwyl y taliadau premiwm blynyddol defaid heb eu cael o hyd—A. ac A. Thomas, Fferm Ty’n Hendre, Tal-y-bont, Bangor, er enghraifft? Mae’n amlwg o’r swyddogion yn swyddfa Caernarfon mai problem gyfrifiadurol yw hon eto, ac mai yng Nghaerdydd y mae’r broblem, a bod y Gweinidog wedi methu â’i datrys.

Before you move on to discuss the other payments, are you aware that some people who were expecting the SAPS payments have still not received them—A. and A. Thomas, Fferm Ty’n Hendre, Tal-y-bont, Bangor, for example? It is obvious from officials in the Caernarfon office that this again is due to a computer problem, that the problem is in Cardiff, and that the Minster has failed to solve it.

Rhodri Glyn Thomas siaradwyd yn Gymraeg t. 82

Rhodri Glyn Thomas spoken in Welsh p. 82

Derbyniaf fod pobl mewn trafferthion mawr o hyd. Dengys hynny, unwaith eto, pa mor warthus yw bod y Gweinidog mor hunanfoddhaus pan mae amaethwyr ledled Cymru yn dioddef cyni ariannol oherwydd hyn.

I accept that people are still in great difficulties. Once again, this shows how disgraceful it is that the Minister is so self-congratulatory when farmers across Wales are suffering financial adversity because of this.

Mae’r Gweinidog wedi dweud wrthym yn y gorffennol y cafodd amaethwyr Cymru eu rhybuddio y digwyddai hyn. Ddim o gwbl, Weinidog. Dywedwyd wrthynt ar 18 Medi y dechreuai taliadau gael eu prosesu ar 23 Medi, ac y byddai taliadau wedi eu rhoi o fewn saith diwrnod i’r ffenestr agor ar 16 Hydref. Ar 15 Tachwedd, derbyniodd ffermwyr Cymru y rhifyn diweddaraf o Gwlad. Dyna’r rhybudd cyntaf a gawsant y byddai’r taliadau’n hwyr, a’ch bod yn gobeithio eu prosesu cyn diwedd mis Tachwedd. Ni fydd pob ffermwr yn eu derbyn cyn diwedd mis Tachwedd, ac mae’r rhan fwyaf yn dal i ddisgwyl.

The Minister has told us in the past that Welsh farmers were warned that this would happen. Not at all, Minister. They were told on 18 September that the payments would be processed from 23 September onwards, and that the payments would be made within seven days of the window opening on 16 October. On 15 November, Welsh farmers received the latest edition of Gwlad. That is the first warning that they had that the payments would be late, and that you were hoping to process them by the end of November. Not all farmers will receive them by the end of November, and the majority are still waiting.

Beth am y taliadau eraill a oedd i fod i gael eu talu? Mae’r premiwm buchod sugno wedi ei dalu yn Lloegr, yr Alban a Gogledd Iwerddon, ond bydd yn rhaid i ffermwyr Cymru ddisgwyl tan y flwyddyn nesaf i’w dderbyn. Beth am y premiwm cig eidion arbennig? Mae hwnnw wedi ei dalu yn Lloegr, yr Alban a Gogledd Iwerddon. Yng Nghymru y gobaith yw y caiff ei dalu cyn diwedd y flwyddyn. Beth am gymorth tir âr? Mae hwnnw hefyd wedi ei dalu yn Lloegr, yr Alban a Gogledd Iwerddon, ond bydd yn rhaid disgwyl tan y flwyddyn nesaf i hwnnw gael ei dalu yng Nghymru.

What about the other payments that were supposed to be made? The suckler cow premium has been paid in England, Scotland and Northern Ireland, but farmers in Wales will have to wait until next year to receive it. What about the beef special premium? That has been paid in England, Scotland and Northern Ireland. In Wales the hope is that it will be paid before the end of the year. What about arable aid? That has also been paid in England, Scotland and Northern Ireland, but we will have to wait until next year for that to be paid in Wales.

Dyna record cwbl warthus, Weinidog. Eisteddwch yma yn gwbl fodlon â’ch perfformiad, a chynnig gwelliant i longyfarch Llywodraeth Cymru ar yr hyn a wnaeth, tra bo’r diwydiant mewn argyfwng. Eich cyfrifoldeb chi yw hyn. Pryd y derbyniwch gyfrifoldeb am y sefyllfa, neu a ddefnyddiwch y system gyfrifiadurol fel esgus? A ddefnyddiwch eich gweithwyr eich hunan fel esgus i beidio â derbyn cyfrifoldeb am y sefyllfa?

That is a disgraceful record, Minister. You sit here completely satisfied with your performance, and propose an amendment to congratulate the Government of Wales on what it has done, while the industry is in crisis. This is your responsibility. When will you accept responsibility for the situation, or will you use the computer system as an excuse? Will you use your own workers as an excuse for not taking responsibility for the situation?

Rhaid i chi sylweddoli bod bod yn Weinidog yng Nghabinet Llywodraeth Cymru yn golygu mwy na thripiau tramor. Mae’n golygu derbyn cyfrifoldeb am y sefyllfa a gweithredu. Disgwyliwn ddatganiad i’r perwyl hwnnw y prynhawn yma. Gwrthodwn welliant y Llywodraeth. Gwrthodwn hefyd welliant y Ceidwadwyr. Byddem wedi ystyried cefnogi’r gwelliant hwnnw oni bai am eu hymddygiad y prynhawn yma. Fodd bynnag, nid ydym yn barod i gefnogi unrhyw gynnig ganddynt ar amaethyddiaeth ar ôl eu hymddygiad y prynhawn yma. Mae’r gwelliant yn rhagdybio euogrwydd y Gweinidog. Yr wyf yn barod i ddisgwyl i’r ymchwiliad ddyfarnu cyn gwneud hynny.

You must realise that being a Cabinet Minister in the Government of Wales means more than trips abroad. It means accepting responsibility for the situation and taking action. We expect a statement to that end this afternoon. We reject the Government’s amendment. We also reject the Conservatives’ amendment. We would have considered supporting that amendment if it had not been for their behaviour this afternoon. However, we are not willing to support any proposal from them on agriculture after their behaviour this afternoon. The amendment presumes that the Minister is culpabable. I am prepared to wait for the inquiry’s ruling before doing that.

Michael German The Deputy First Minister and Minister for Rural Development and Wales Abroad spoken in English p. 84

Michael German Y Dirprwy Brif Weinidog a’r Gweinidog dros Ddatblygu Gwledig a Chymru Dramor siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 84

I propose amendment 1 in the name of Carwyn Jones. Delete all after ‘National Assembly for Wales’ and replace with:

Cynigiaf welliant 1 yn enw Carwyn Jones. Dileu popeth ar ôl ‘Cynulliad Cenedlaethol Cymru’ a rhoi yn eu lle:

John Marek The Deputy Presiding Officer spoken in English p. 84

John Marek Y Dirprwy Lywydd siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 84

As we are short of time, I shall exercise my discretion and limit speakers to three minutes.

Gan ein bod yn brin o amser, arferaf fy rhyddid i weithredu a chyfyngu’r siaradwyr i dri munud.

Peter Rogers spoken in English p. 84

Peter Rogers siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 84

I propose amendment 2. Add new point:

Cynigiaf welliant 2 yn enw Jonathan Morgan. Ychwanegu pwynt newydd:

Peter Rogers (continued) spoken in English p. 84

Peter Rogers (parhad) siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 84

This debate follows on from what I was trying to lead on last week, when I was treated abysmally by Plaid Cymru, whose Members intervened many times. This is a serious issue. I am concerned that the First Minister is not here today to listen to my arguments. I would have taken any intervention from him today. Last week, I said that the misinformation given by Mike German is a disgrace, and that is still the case; the paper that he has prepared for tomorrow’s Agriculture and Rural Development Committee meeting is full of inaccuracies.

Mae’r ddadl hon yn dilyn yr hyn yr oeddwn yn ceisio ei ddweud yr wythnos diwethaf, pan gefais fy nhrin yn ofnadwy gan Blaid Cymru, y gwnaeth ei Haelodau ymyrryd lawer gwaith. Mae hyn yn fater difrifol. Yr wyf yn bryderus am nad yw’r Prif Weinidog yma heddiw i wrando ar fy nadleuon. Byddwn wedi derbyn ymyriad ganddo heddiw. Yr wythnos diwethaf, dywedais fod y wybodaeth anghywir a roddwyd gan Mike German yn warth, ac mae’n dal i fod felly; mae’r papur y mae wedi’i baratoi ar gyfer cyfarfod y Pwyllgor Amaethyddiaeth a Datblygu Gwledig yfory yn llawn gwallau.

It completely undermines your credibility, Mike German. It is disgraceful for you to say that you negotiated at a meeting with the unions some time ago, and that you explained that there was a chance that that payment would be late. The unions have produced the minutes of that meeting, which show that you never mentioned late payment. A fortnight ago, at the Committee meeting, you mentioned that anyone in severe financial difficulty could make an application for a manual payment. The unions could not believe that you made that statement. That is the point that I made last week, when the First Minister rudely interrupted me. I have a letter here from your divisional office, Minister, written to a bank to confirm that the payment would be made within the next seven days. That was on 30 October: that payment was not made until last week. How can you deal with banks and institutions, and tell them that you have a system in place, when you know that you do not? You had the audacity, Minister, to tell the Committee that you had informed farmers of the problems. I have here the letter that was sent to farmer in north Wales last Monday. You are trying to give us a spiel about what previously happened. When you present the paper tomorrow, I hope that you will review these matters.

Mae’n llwyr danseilio’ch hygrededd, Mike German. Mae’n warthus ichi ddweud eich bod wedi negodi mewn cyfarfod gyda’r undebau beth amser yn ôl, a’ch bod wedi egluro bod posibilrwydd y byddai’r taliadau’n hwyr. Mae’r undebau wedi dangos cofnodion y cyfarfod hwnnw, sy’n dangos na wnaethoch sôn am dalu’n hwyr o gwbl. Bythefnos yn ôl, yn y cyfarfod o’r Pwyllgor, dywedasoch y gallai rhywun mewn trafferth ariannol difrifol wneud cais am daliad â llaw. Ni allai’r undebau goelio ichi wneud y datganiad hwnnw. Dyna’r pwynt a wneuthum yr wythnos diwethaf, pan dorrodd y Prif Weinidog ar fy nhraws yn anghwrtais. Mae gennyf lythyr yma oddi wrth eich swyddfa adrannol, Weinidog, a anfonwyd i fanc i gadarnhau y câi’r taliad ei wneud o fewn y saith diwrnod nesaf. Yr oedd hynny ar 30 Hydref: ni wnaed y taliad hwnnw tan yr wythnos diwethaf. Sut y gallwch ddelio â banciau a sefydliadau, a dweud wrthynt fod gennych system sydd ar waith, a chithau’n gwybod nad ydyw? Weinidog, buoch mor ddigywilydd â dweud wrth y Pwyllgor eich bod wedi rhoi gwybod i ffermwyr am y problemau. Mae gennyf lythyr yma a anfonwyd at ffermwr yn y Gogledd ddydd Llun diwethaf. Yr ydych yn ceisio rhoi truth i ni am yr hyn a ddigwyddodd o’r blaen. Pan gyflwynwch y papur yfory, gobeithiaf y gwnewch adolygu’r materion hyn.

You tell us that you paid £23 million to 10 farmers. That cannot possibly be right. [Interruption.] I have not got it wrong. It is there in black and white—under Monday the number of payments is given as 10 and as worth £23 million. On the Tuesday entry it is nearly—

Dywedwch wrthym eich bod wedi talu £23 miliwn i 10 ffermwr. Ni all hynny fod yn iawn. [Torri ar draws.] Nid wyf wedi’i gamddeall. Mae yno ar ddu a gwyn—o dan ddydd Llun y nifer o daliadau a roddir yw 10 a’u gwerth yw £23 miliwn. Yn y cofnod am ddydd Mawrth mae ymron—

Michael German spoken in English p. 85

Michael German siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 85

It is £23,000—‘£23 k’ stands for £23,000.

Tair mil ar hugain o bunnoedd ydyw—mae ‘£23 k’ yn golygu £23,000.

Peter Rogers spoken in English p. 85

Peter Rogers siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 85

I am sorry, £23,000. Then you reach our problems. Mick Bates told us about the independent appeals tribunal and how Welsh farmers could tackle any problem that they had within the scheme. That was heralded by Liberal Democrats. The process is in absolute chaos. Who has the final say on the independent appeals process? The two cases that are in the process now were decided in June and September, but they have not had the results, three months down the line. Do you know why? It is because the Minister has to make the final decision, and he does not understand the procedures.

Mae’n ddrwg gennyf, £23,000. Wedyn deuir at ein problemau ni. Dywedodd Mick Bates wrthym am y tribiwnlys apelau annibynnol a sut y gallai ffermwyr Cymru ymdrin ag unrhyw broblem a fu ganddynt o fewn y cynllun. Datganwyd hynny gan y Democratiaid Rhyddfrydol. Mae’r broses mewn anhrefn llwyr. Gan bwy y mae’r gair olaf ar y broses apelau annibynnol? Penderfynwyd ar y ddau achos sydd yn y broses yn awr ym Mehefin a Medi, ond nid ydynt wedi cael y canlyniadau, dri mis yn ddiweddarach. A wyddoch pam? Am mai’r Gweinidog sy’n gorfod gwneud y penderfyniad terfynol, ac nid yw’n deall y gweithdrefnau.

That is why you have to go, Minister. The motion is before you today so that you can understand that holding an inquiry into how this process has been run desperately important. You have stopped all training in agriculture, therefore you now have people who do not understand the systems. I understand that they are difficult systems and I agree that the officers are doing a first-class job in administering them. However, you must have some people—[Interruption.] I will take an intervention, if Members with to intervene.

Dyna pam y mae’n rhaid ichi fynd, Weinidog. Mae’r cynnig ger eich bron heddiw fel y gallwch ddeall ei bod yn hynod bwysig cynnal ymchwiliad i’r modd y gweithredwyd y broses hon. Yr ydych wedi atal yr holl hyfforddiant mewn amaethyddiaeth, felly mae gennych rai’n awr nad ydynt yn deall y systemau. Sylweddolaf eu bod yn systemau anodd a chytunaf fod y swyddogion yn gwneud gwaith rhagorol wrth eu gweinyddu. Fodd bynnag, rhaid cael rhai pobl—[Torri ar draws.] Derbyniaf ymyriad, os yw Aelodau’n dymuno ymyrryd.

John Marek The Deputy Presiding Officer spoken in English p. 86

John Marek Y Dirprwy Lywydd siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 86

Order. You cannot take an intervention. You were in full-flow and I have allowed you an extra minute; you need to close.

Trefn. Ni allwch dderbyn ymyriad. Yr oeddech yn siarad heb ball ac yr wyf wedi caniatáu munud ychwanegol i chi; rhaid ichi derfynu.

Peter Rogers spoken in English p. 86

Peter Rogers siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 86

Last week’s motion, as amended by the Conservative amendments, would have been far stronger than today’s motion. What has gone on is a disgrace. Why do you not stand up and admit that you are out of your depth, Minister? You should let someone who understands rural affairs deal with agriculture.

Buasai cynnig yr wythnos diwethaf, ar ôl ei newid gan welliannau’r Ceidwadwyr, yn gryfach o lawer na’r cynnig heddiw. Mae’r hyn a fu’n mynd ymlaen yn warthus. Pam na wnewch sefyll ar eich traed a chyfaddef eich bod mewn dyfroedd dyfnion, Weinidog? Dylech adael i rywun sy’n deall materion gwledig ddelio ag amaethyddiaeth.

Janet Ryder spoken in English p. 86

Janet Ryder siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 86

There are many reasons why farmers need these payments on time. As for any other business, these payments appear in farmers’ business plans; they have accounted for them and they rely on them being paid on time in order to repay debts. More debts have been accrued over the past year than normal, and many farmers are facing severe financial problems. Farmers bought in animals in September and October, as normal, with the expectation of receiving their sheep annual premium scheme payment by the end of October. That payment did not materialise at the due time and farmers are unable to sell on their other animals to make up the cash flow loss. Some farmers, because of the 20-day standstill rule, have been at a standstill, more or less, since mid-summer. Some farmers in Ruthin have described the combined impact of the 20-day standstill rule and the late payment of SAPS as being the final straw that could well break the camel’s back. The implications of the 20-day standstill rule are much more serious for Wales than for many other parts of the UK given that 90 per cent of Wales’s agricultural gross domestic product is generated by the livestock sector. Farmers depend on selling store stock through livestock auctions but, under the 20-day rule, they are unable to take advantage of the market forces at the appropriate time for the particular product. There is usually a great demand for store stock in the autumn, but if you cannot take advantage of that demand, when can you sell? Difficult trading conditions can result in animals being taken home, and they then become subject to the restriction. Given the very nature of the seasons, livestock breeding and grass growth cycles, farmers are dependent on selling, buying or moving stock within narrow time periods. Many farmers are asking whether there is any future in farming, especially for livestock farming.

Mae llawer o resymau pam y mae ar ffermwyr angen y taliadau hyn yn brydlon. Yn yr un modd ag unrhyw fusnes arall, mae’r taliadau hyn yn ymddangos yng nghynlluniau busnes ffermwyr; maent wedi rhoi cyfrif amdanynt ac yn dibynnu ar eu talu’n brydlon er mwyn talu dyledion. Cronnwyd mwy o ddyledion na’r arfer dros y flwyddyn a aeth heibio, ac mae llawer o ffermwyr yn wynebu problemau ariannol difrifol. Gwnaeth ffermwyr brynu anifeiliaid ym Medi a Hydref, yn ôl yr arfer, gan ddisgwyl derbyn eu taliad o dan y cynllun premiwm blynyddol defaid erbyn diwedd Hydref. Ni ddaeth y taliad hwnnw ar yr adeg yr oedd i fod i’w dalu ac ni all ffermwyr werthu eu hanifeiliaid eraill i wneud iawn am y golled yn y llif arian. Mae rhai ffermwyr, oherwydd y rheol gwaharddiad symud 20 diwrnod, yn sefyll yn stond, fwy neu lai, ers canol yr haf. Mae rhai ffermwyr yn Rhuthun wedi galw effaith gyfunol y rheol gwaharddiad symud 20 diwrnod a thalu taliadau premiwm blynyddol defaid yn hwyr yn ergyd a allai fod yn un derfynol. Mae goblygiadau’r rheol gwaharddiad symud 20 diwrnod yn fwy difrifol o lawer i Gymru nag i lawer o rannau eraill o’r DU o gofio bod 90 y cant o gynnyrch mewnwladol crynswth amaethyddol Cymru’n cael ei gynhyrchu gan y sector da byw. Mae ffermwyr yn dibynnu ar werthu anifeiliaid cadw drwy arwerthiannau da byw ond, dan y rheol 20 diwrnod, ni allant fanteisio ar rymoedd y farchnad ar yr adeg briodol i’r cynnyrch penodol. Mae galw mawr am anifeiliaid cadw yn yr hydref fel arfer, ond os na allwch fanteisio ar y galw hwnnw, pa bryd y gallwch werthu? Mae amgylchiadau masnachu anodd yn gallu arwain at fynd ag anifeiliaid adref, a byddant wedyn yn dod o dan y cyfyngiad. O gofio natur y tymhorau, cylchoedd magu da byw a thyfu glaswellt, mae ffermwyr yn ddibynnol ar werthu, prynu neu symud stoc o fewn cyfnodau cyfyng. Mae llawer o ffermwyr yn holi a oes unrhyw ddyfodol i ffermio, yn enwedig ffermio da byw.

In the rural areas around Ruthin and Llanrwst, many farmers feel that this 20-day rule deliberately discriminates against livestock auctions because there are no restrictions on taking slaughter but you cannot sell an animal when you want to. No-one wants to see a recurrence of the foot and mouth disease outbreak, or anything like it, and appropriate controls need to be in place—but they must be on appropriate.

Yn yr ardaloedd gwledig o gwmpas Rhuthun a Llanrwst, mae llawer o ffermwyr yn teimlo bod y rheol 20 diwrnod hon yn gwahaniaethu’n fwriadol yn erbyn arwerthiannau da byw gan nad oes cyfyngiadau ar fynd ag anifeiliaid i’w lladd ond ni chewch werthu anifail pan ydych yn dymuno. Nid oes neb am weld ail gychwyniad o glwy’r traed a’r genau, neu ddim byd tebyg iddo, a rhaid rhoi rheolaethau priodol ar waith—ond rhaid iddynt fod yn briodol.

The National Farmers’ Union is calling for all farms and other premises used to hold livestock to have an animal health plan agreed by veterinary surgeons. Such plans would identify measures to achieve and maintain an appropriate level of biosecurity. In Scotland, a much more pragmatic approach is taken. The restriction is placed on the animals brought onto the holding, as opposed to the holding itself, and natural boundaries, such as woodland, streams or buildings, may be used to separate animals, providing that they are escape-proof. That is much more practical than the prescribed distance rules used here.

Mae Undeb Cenedlaethol y Ffermwyr yn galw am gael cynllun iechyd anifeiliaid a gytunir gan filfeddygon ar gyfer pob fferm ac adeilad arall a ddefnyddir i gadw da byw. Byddai cynlluniau o’r fath yn nodi mesurau i sicrhau a chynnal lefel briodol o ddiogelwch biolegol. Yn yr Alban, dilynir dull gweithredu llawer mwy pragmatig. Gosodir cyfyngiad ar yr anifeiliaid a ddygir i’r fferm, yn hytrach nag ar y fferm ei hun, a gellir defnyddio terfynau naturiol, fel coetir, nentydd neu adeiladau, i wahanu anifeiliaid, ar yr amod na allant ddianc drwyddynt. Mae hynny’n llawer mwy ymarferol na’r rheolau pellter penodedig a ddefnyddir yma.

Is it any surprise that farmers such as those in my home area of Ruthin feel that there is no future for their industry under the Assembly’s Labour/Liberal Government, when the Government spokesperson last week declared in the Chamber that, by

A yw’n syndod bod ffermwyr fel y rhai yn ardal fy nghartref yn Rhuthun yn teimlo nad oes dyfodol i’w diwydiant o dan Lywodraeth Lafur/Rhyddfrydol y Cynulliad, a llefarydd y Llywodraeth wedi datgan yr wythnos diwethaf yn y Siambr fod modd i ni, drwy

‘decoupling production from subsidy, we can obtain more affordable and better-quality produce from developing countries’?

‘ddatgysylltu cynhyrchu oddi wrth gymhorthdal, gallwch gael cynnyrch mwy fforddiadwy o ansawdd gwell o wledydd sy’n datblygu’?

That is a betrayal of our rural areas by the Labour/Liberal Assembly Government.

Mae hynny’n fradychiad o’n hardaloedd gwledig gan Lywodraeth Lafur/Rhyddfrydol y Cynulliad.

Mick Bates spoken in English p. 88

Mick Bates siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 88

A few facts need to be established in my short contribution to this debate. The cumulative effect of BSE and foot and mouth disease, and the general disadvantage of being outside the eurozone have created an air of negativity in the agricultural industry. During our debate on the common agricultural policy last week, the Conservative Party’s amendment 4 referred to the fact that the world trade talks must take account of the European position. The Doha agreement actually asks for a reduction in agricultural subsidies. That negativity has been compounded by successive Governments, and nobody’s hands are clean. The Tories cut 25 per cent from the most basic level of hill payment—do not forget that—and the Labour Party continues to smash the co-operation that existed among milk producers in Britain. Therefore, we all share the blame. Late payments are an almost annual hue and cry, of which I have been a part.

Rhaid imi gadarnhau ychydig o ffeithiau yn fy nghyfraniad byr i’r ddadl hon. Mae effaith gronnol BSE a chlwy’r traed a’r genau, a’r anfantais gyffredinol o fod y tu allan i’r ewrodir wedi creu ysbryd negyddol yn y diwydiant amaethyddol. Yn ystod ein dadl ar y polisi amaethyddol cyffredin yr wythnos diwethaf, cyfeiriodd gwelliant 4 y Blaid Geidwadol at y ffaith bod rhaid i drafodaethau masnach y byd ystyried y safbwynt Ewropeaidd. Mewn gwirionedd, mae cytundeb Doha yn gofyn am ostyngiad mewn cymorthdaliadau amaethyddol. Ychwanegwyd at y negyddoldeb hwnnw gan y naill Lywodraeth ar ôl y llall, ac nid oes neb â’i ddwylo’n lân. Gwnaeth y Torïaid dorri 25 y cant oddi ar y lefel fwyaf sylfaenol o daliad ar gyfer ffermio mynydd—nac anghofiwch hynny—ac mae’r Blaid Lafur yn parhau i chwalu’r cydweithrediad a fodolai rhwng cynhyrchwyr llaeth ym Mhrydain. Felly, yr ydym oll yn rhannu’r bai. Mae taliadau hwyr yn destun cŵyn bob blwyddyn bron, a bûm i’n rhan o hynny.

There are greater problems facing our industry today. If this sheep annual premium payment were not forthcoming, I would have every sympathy with the demand for a public inquiry. Yet no MP demanded a public inquiry when the Tories cut 25 per cent off payments. Why not? This is playing politics with people’s lives. I know the industry. No Minister and no official working in a divisional office would ever obstruct any support payment.

Mae problemau mwy’n wynebu ein diwydiant heddiw. Os nad oedd y taliad premiwm blynyddol defaid hwn ar y ffordd, byddai gennyf bob cydymdeimlad â’r galw am ymchwiliad cyhoeddus. Ac eto ni alwodd yr un AS am ymchwiliad cyhoeddus pan dorrodd y Torïaid 25 y cant oddi ar daliadau. Pam hynny? Chwarae gwleidyddiaeth â bywydau pobl yw hyn. Yr wyf yn adnabod y diwydiant. Ni fyddai’r un Gweinidog neu swyddog yn gweithio mewn swyddfa adrannol byth yn rhwystro unrhyw gymhorthdal.

Why do those payments exist? They exist to assist and support this industry, and to compensate for hardship. They are paid every year. Let us take a responsible attitude towards helping this industry out of the hole that it is in. We have an independent appeals panel so that the Welsh Office is no longer both judge and jury, and we have introduced Farming Connect to help restructure the industry.

Pam y mae’r taliadau hynny’n bod? Maent yn bod i gynnal a chynorthwyo’r diwydiant hwn, a gwneud iawn am gyni. Fe’u telir bob blwyddyn. Gadewch inni gymryd agwedd gyfrifol at helpu’r diwydiant hwn i ddod o’r twll y mae ynddo. Mae gennym banel apelau annibynnol fel nad y Swyddfa Gymreig yw’r barnwr a’r rheithgor bellach, ac yr ydym wedi cyflwyno Cyswllt Ffermio i helpu i ailstrwythuro’r diwydiant.

It is bad to raise expectations; no-one can justify doing that and then making late payments. Let us be responsible enough to understand that we are raising the hype and negativity to such a level that you would believe that farmers in areas such as where I was born and brought up were not receiving payments. Farmers will receive the payments. However, the more you increase the tension and hype, the more negativity there is. I implore Plaid Cymru Members to be positive in this debate. Let us build the industry for the sake of all the families who think that they are not going to receive their payments.

Peth drwg yw codi gobeithion; ni all neb gyfiawnhau gwneud hynny ac wedyn talu’n hwyr. Gadewch inni fod yn ddigon cyfrifol i ddeall ein bod yn codi’r ormodiaith a’r siarad negyddol i’r fath lefel fel y credech nad oedd ffermwyr mewn ardaloedd fel fy ardal enedigol i’n derbyn taliadau. Bydd ffermwyr yn derbyn y taliadau. Fodd bynnag, po fwyaf y cynyddwch y tyndra a’r ormodiaith, y mwyaf o siarad negyddol a geir. Erfyniaf ar Aelodau Plaid Cymru i fod yn gadarnhaol yn y ddadl hon. Gadewch inni adeiladu’r diwydiant er mwyn yr holl deuluoedd sy’n credu na fyddant yn derbyn eu taliadau.

Cynog Dafis siaradwyd yn Gymraeg t. 89

Cynog Dafis spoken in Welsh p. 89

Rhaid imi ddweud wrth Mick Bates y byddai o fudd pe bai rhywun yn dweud ei bod yn ddrwg ganddynt am yr hyn sydd wedi digwydd.

I must say to Mick Bates that it would help if someone apologised for what has happened.

Mick Bates a gododd—

Mick Bates rose—

Cynog Dafis siaradwyd yn Gymraeg t. 89

Cynog Dafis spoken in Welsh p. 89

Ychydig o amser sydd gennyf ac yr wyf am barhau.

I will continue, as time is short.

Pan fydd taliadau mor hwyr â hyn, fel ein bod yn sôn am daliadau buchod sugno a’r premiwm arbennig eidion yn cael eu talu ddechrau’r flwyddyn nesaf, rhaid inni ddeall pam mae hyn wedi digwydd. Rhesymol yw gofyn am ymchwiliad. Nid yw’n ddigon da ymddwyn yn hunanfodlon mewn sefyllfa fel hon—[Torri ar draws.]

When payments are so late that we are talking about suckler cow payments and the beef special premium payments being made at the beginning of next year, we must understand why this has happened. It is reasonable to ask for an inquiry. It is not good enough to be self-satisfied in such a situation—[Interruption.]

John Marek The Deputy Presiding Officer spoken in English p. 90

John Marek Y Dirprwy Lywydd siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 90

Order.

Trefn.

Cynog Dafis siaradwyd yn Gymraeg t. 90

Cynog Dafis spoken in Welsh p. 90

Yr oeddwn am achub ar y cyfle i gyfeirio at araith Lynne Neagle yn nadl yr wythnos diwethaf ar y polisi amaethyddol cyffredin, yn enwedig gan fod Mick Bates wedi sôn am fod yn negyddol—[Torri ar draws.] Nid wyf yn mynd i dawelu; caiff y sawl sy’n cadw sŵn wneud hynny.

Given that Mick Bates talked about being negative, I want to take this opportunity to refer to Lynne Neagle’s contribution during last week’s debate on the common agricultural policy—[Interruption.] I will not pipe down; those interrupting can do that.

John Marek The Deputy Presiding Officer spoken in English p. 90

John Marek Y Dirprwy Lywydd siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 90

Order.

Trefn.

Cynog Dafis siaradwyd yn Gymraeg t. 90

Cynog Dafis spoken in Welsh p. 90

Yr oedd araith Lynne Neagle yr wythnos diwethaf yn enghraifft dda o siarad negyddol. Yr oedd yn glir nad oes gwahaniaeth ganddi pe na bai’r taliadau yn cael eu gwneud o gwbl. Bu iddi ymosod ar egwyddor taliadau cynnal ffermwyr. Byddai’n ddefnyddiol pe bai’r Gweinidog â chyfrifoldeb dros amaethyddiaeth a datblygu gwledig, sydd yn rhan o Lywodraeth goalisiwn gyda phlaid Lynne Neagle, yn dweud yn bendant nad yw’n gweld y sefyllfa yn yr un ffordd â hi.

Lynne Neagle’s speech last week was a good example of negativity. She made it clear that she does not care whether the payments are made at all. She attacked the principle of farming subsidies. It would be helpful if the Minister responsible for agriculture and rural development, who is a member of the coalition Government with Lynne Neagle’s party, were to emphatically declare that he does not see the situation in the same light.

Yr wyf am esbonio safbwynt Plaid Cymru ar daliadau amaethyddol. Derbyniwn yn llwyr yr angen i ddiwygio’r polisi amaethyddol cyffredin, gan gynnwys diwygio’r dull o wneud taliadau. Serch hynny, mae pob cyfiawnhad dros barhau cynhaliaeth gyhoeddus i amaethyddiaeth am resymau amgylcheddol a chymdeithasol, ac er mwyn diogelu cyflenwadau bwyd. Anwybyddir hynny yn rhy aml yn ddiweddar. Bob tro y cynhelir arolwg barn ar y mater, diddorol yw gweld bod tua 70 y cant o boblogaeth Ewrop yn cydnabod bod cyfiawnhad dros y taliadau. Dywedant eu bod yn derbyn yr angen i dalu, cyhyd â bod y taliadau yn arwain at y canlyniadau iawn. Mae angen i Lynne Neagle ac eraill o’r Blaid Lafur, ddeall dyfnder argyfwng y byd ffermio a chymaint o lanast y gallai hynny ei achosi yng nghefn gwlad ac ar gyfer economi Cymru. Trist yw eu clywed yn siarad fel arall. Gallai effeithiau’r argyfwng hwn fod yn ddifrifol ac yn bellgyrhaeddol.

I will clarify Plaid Cymru’s standpoint on agricultural subsidies. We fully accept the need to reform the common agricultural policy, including payment methods. However, there is every justification for continuing to publicly subsidise agriculture, for environmental and social reasons, and also in order to safeguard food supplies. That is ignored all too often these days. Interestingly, whenever an opinion poll is conducted on the matter, it shows that 70 per cent of the population of Europe recognises that subsidies are justified. They accept the need for these payments, provided that they lead to the right outcomes. Lynne Neagle, and others in the Labour Party, need to understand the extent of the crisis facing the farming industry and the devastating effect that that could have on rural areas and the Welsh economy. It is sad to hear them say otherwise. This crisis could have serious and far-reaching effects.

Dylid holi sut fath o gynhaliaeth y dylid ei rhoi, wrth i’r trafodaethau ar ddiwygio’r polisi amaethyddol cyffredin barhau. Disgwyliwn i’r Gweinidog gynrychioli buddiannau Cymru yn ystod y cyfnod eithriadol o gymhleth ac anodd dros y misoedd nesaf. A oes gennym hyder yn y Gweinidog i wneud ei waith? Bydd yn rhaid iddo gadw ei lygad ar y bêl gan ofalu bod buddiannau Cymru yn cael eu gwasanaethu. Ar sail ei record hyd yn hyn ac ar sail y gohiriadau annerbyniol wrth wneud taliadau, mae gennym le i amau a yw’r Gweinidog yn ddyn a all wneud y gwaith.

As the discussions on the reform of the common agriculture policy continue, we should ask what kind of subsidies are required. We expect the Minister to represent Welsh interests during the coming months in what will be an exceptionally complex and difficult period. Are we confident that the Minister is up to the job? He will have to keep his eye on the ball and ensure that Wales’s interests are served. Given his record to date and the unacceptable delay in payments, we have cause to doubt whether the Minister is the man for the job.

Delyth Evans siaradwyd yn Gymraeg t. 91

Delyth Evans spoken in Welsh p. 91

Mae’n nodweddiadol erbyn hyn i Blaid Cymru ddefnyddio ei dadleuon ei hun i sôn am drafferthion pobl ym mhob sector o fywyd Cymru er mwyn sgorio pwyntiau gwleidyddol.

It is characteristic by now for Plaid Cymru to use its own debates to highlight the problems experienced by people in all sectors of Welsh life in order to score political points.

Alun Cairns spoken in English p. 91

Alun Cairns siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 91

Are you saying that, when the Secretary of State made his statement earlier, none of his comments were party political points to the advantage the Labour Party?

A ddywedwch nad oedd yr un o sylwadau’r Ysgrifennydd Gwladol, pan wnaeth ei ddatganiad yn gynharach, yn bwyntiau pleidiol wleidyddol er mantais i’r Blaid Lafur?

Delyth Evans spoken in Welsh and English p. 91

Delyth Evans siaradwyd yn Gymraeg ac yn Saesneg t. 91

I will proceed with my contribution.

yn Saesneg Af ymlaen â’m cyfraniad.

Cyfarfodydd y Pwyllgor Amaethyddiaeth a Datblygu Gwledig yw’r lle priodol i drafod y mater hwn. Fel y gŵyr Rhodri Glyn, byddwn yn gwneud hynny yfory, ar ôl iddo ef ofyn am i’r mater ddod gerbron y Pwyllgor. Ymrwymodd y Gweinidog i neilltuo amser i drafod y mater, a dyna a wnawn yfory. Mae’r ddadl hon yn dangos gwacter polisïau Plaid Cymru. Nid oes ganddi faterion o sylwedd na pholisïau difrifol i’w trafod yn y dadleuon a enwebir ganddi. Y cyfan y mae’n dymuno ei drafod yw’r dull o weinyddu taliadau amaethyddol. Ni chredaf fod hyn yn adlewyrchu’n dda ar y blaid. Mae Rhodri Glyn yn sôn am y trafferthion a brofir fel pe baent wedi syrthio o’r nefoedd yn gwbl ddi-rybudd. Bu i swyddogion y Cynulliad gyfarfod â chynrychiolwyr o undebau’r ffermwyr yn mis Medi. Rhybuddiwyd hwy fod problemau posibl o ran y system newydd hon. Felly, nid yw hyn yn annisgwyl. Gwnaethpwyd pob ymdrech i esbonio’r sefyllfa ac i esbonio sut y byddai Llywodraeth y Cynulliad yn mynd ati i ddelio â’r trafferthion. Mae pobl yn gweithio’n galed i ddatrys y sefyllfa bresennol ac yn ymateb mor effeithiol ag y gallant iddi. Mae’n hen bryd i Blaid Cymru gynnig rhywbeth o sylwedd i’w drafod yn hytrach na cheisio sgorio pwyntiau gwleidyddol o’r fath sefyllfa.

in Welsh This issue is best discussed in the Agriculture and Rural Development Committee. As Rhodri Glyn is aware, we will do just that tomorrow, after he asked for the issue to be brought before the Committee. The Minister made a commitment to allocate time for such a discussion, which will take place tomorrow. This debate merely shows Plaid Cymru’s policy vacuum. It has no matters of substance or serious policies to discuss in its nominated debates. All it wants to discuss is the administration of agricultural subsidies. I do not think that this reflects well on the party. Rhodri Glyn talks about the difficulties experienced as if they had fallen from heaven without warning. Assembly officials met with representatives of the farming unions in September. They were warned about possible problems with this new system. Therefore, this is not unexpected. Every attempt was made to explain the situation and how the Assembly Government would to deal with the difficulties. People are working hard to resolve the current situation and are reacting as effectively as possible to it. It is high time that Plaid Cymru proposed a topic of substance rather than trying to score political points from such a situation.

Michael German The Deputy First Minister and Minister for Rural Development and Wales Abroad spoken in English p. 92

Michael German Y Dirprwy Brif Weinidog a’r Gweinidog dros Ddatblygu Gwledig a Chymru Dramor siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 92

I am grateful to the opposition for giving me the opportunity to put the record straight on a number of issues. I call on Assembly Members to vote for amendment 1, which notes our excellent performance on payments in previous years and congratulates staff on their hard work in distributing unprecedented levels of money at this time of year. In case there is any misunderstanding, I understand that Welsh farmers need to get this money as quickly as possible. I assure them that everything possible is being done to make that happen.

Yr wyf yn ddiolchgar i’r wrthblaid am roi cyfle imi gywiro gwallau ar nifer o faterion. Galwaf ar Aelodau’r Cynulliad i bleidleisio dros welliant 1, sy’n nodi ein perfformiad rhagorol ar daliadau mewn blynyddoedd blaenorol ac yn llongyfarch staff ar eu gwaith caled wrth ddosbarthu symiau digyffelyb o arian ar yr adeg hon o’r flwyddyn. Rhag ofn bod unrhyw gamddealltwriaeth, sylweddolaf fod angen i ffermwyr Cymru gael yr arian hwn mor fuan â phosibl. Yr wyf yn eu sicrhau y gwneir popeth y gellir i beri i hynny ddigwydd.

I will give Assembly Members the facts on this issue and then they can make up their own minds. First, however, I wish to remind some Members that what we have done over the last three years to improve services for farmers in Wales has been little short of miraculous. The list of improvements is a long one. We now have up-to-date offices with staff who listen to what their customers want and do their best to provide it. Over a period of three years, our services have been completely transformed. Throughout the summer, I was able to observe that the culture has changed to one in which staff are more highly skilled and valued and services are much more customer focused. I have visited every big county show throughout Wales this summer and I have made a point of asking people about the standard of service that they were getting from their local offices. I received widespread support for the services provided for farmers by staff in our offices. However, although we have a long list of achievements, when there is a short delay in distributing payments, opposition Members reward the Assembly Government by showing a complete lack of understanding with regard to the current position and call for an inquiry into the efforts of staff. We are unfavourably compared to other administrations when in fact we have recently beaten them out of sight. We are criticised by opposition Members intent on jumping on the bandwagon and making political capital out of the difficult task that staff are facing. Amendment 1 goes some way towards ensuring that those staff know how much we value their hard work. Opposition Members should be in no doubt about the damage that they are doing to staff morale and, as a result, to our ability to serve Welsh farmers as we would wish. If I did not know them better, I would think that staff might start to wonder why on earth they should bother. However, I know them better than that. I know that they care passionately about their customers and that they will continue to do their best for an industry that is experiencing severe hardship and which needs the Assembly Government’s help to ensure that it survives.

Rhoddaf y ffeithiau i Aelodau’r Cynulliad ar y mater hwn ac wedyn cânt benderfynu drostynt eu hunain. Yn gyntaf, fodd bynnag, dymunaf atgoffa rhai Aelodau bod yr hyn a wnaethom dros y tair blynedd diwethaf i wella gwasanaethau ar gyfer ffermwyr yng Nghymru yn wyrthiol bron. Mae’r rhestr o welliannau’n un hir. Bellach mae gennym swyddfeydd cyfoes gyda staff sy’n gwrando ar yr hyn y mae ar eu cwsmeriaid ei angen ac yn gwneud eu gorau i’w ddarparu. Dros gyfnod o dair blynedd, mae ein gwasanaethau wedi’u trawsnewid yn llwyr. Gydol yr haf, gallwn weld bod y diwylliant wedi newid i fod yn un lle y mae’r staff yn fwy medrus byth ac yn cael eu gwerthfawrogi’n fwy a lle y mae’r gwasanaethau’n canolbwyntio’n fwy ar y cwsmer. Ymwelais â phob sioe sirol fawr ledled Cymru yr haf hwn a mynnais holi pobl am safon y gwasanaeth a gaent gan eu swyddfeydd lleol. Cefais gefnogaeth gyffredinol i’r gwasanaethau a ddarperir ar gyfer ffermwyr gan staff yn ein swyddfeydd. Fodd bynnag, er ein bod wedi cyflawni llawer, pan geir ychydig o oedi cyn dosbarthu taliadau, mae Aelodau’r wrthblaid yn talu i Lywodraeth y Cynulliad drwy amlygu diffyg dealltwriaeth lwyr ynghylch y sefyllfa bresennol a galw am ymchwiliad i ymdrechion y staff. Cawn ein cymharu’n anffafriol â gweinyddiaethau eraill a ninnau, mewn gwirionedd, wedi eu curo’n llwyr yn ddiweddar. Fe’n beirniedir gan Aelodau’r wrthblaid sy’n benderfynol o neidio ar y drol a gwneud elw gwleidyddol o’r dasg anodd y mae staff yn ei hwynebu. Mae gwelliant 1 yn cyfrannu rywfaint at sicrhau bod y staff hynny’n gwybod gymaint yr ydym yn gwerthfawrogi eu gwaith caled. Dylai Aelodau’r wrthblaid fod yn ymwybodol o’r niwed y maent yn ei wneud i forâl y staff ac, o ganlyniad i hynny, i’n gallu i wasanaethu ffermwyr Cymru fel y dymunem. Pe nad adnabwn hwy yn well na hynny, gallwn dybio y byddai’r staff yn dechrau meddwl pam ar y ddaear y dylent drafferthu. Fodd bynnag, yr wyf yn eu hadnabod yn well na hynny. Gwn eu bod yn poeni’n fawr am eu cwsmeriaid ac y byddant yn dal i wneud eu gorau dros ddiwylliant sy’n profi caledi enbyd ac sydd ag angen cymorth gan Lywodraeth y Cynulliad i sicrhau ei fod yn parhau.

I will now give you some hard facts, because up until now in this debate precious few have been given. Until this year, sheep annual premium payments were made in three tranches. For the 1999 scheme year, 98 per cent of balance payments were made by the end of April 2000. In 2000, over £8 million of first advances were released by the end of July, over 90 per cent of second advances were processed within six days, and 95 per cent of the 2000 balance was paid by 12 April 2000—in a year when the former Ministry of Agriculture, Fisheries and Food only started processing payments in late April. In 2001, 90 per cent of first advances were processed in July, 96 per cent of second advances were released within three days and 92 per cent of balances were paid by the end of March 2002, a full month ahead of target. I hope that opposition Members agree that that is an enviable record in any circumstances. However, to achieve all this when such a massive programme of change has been underway is a testament to the care and attention that our staff give the farming and rural communities in Wales.

Rhoddaf ychydig o ffeithiau pendant i chi, oherwydd hyd yn hyn yn y ddadl hon ychydig iawn a roddwyd. Hyd at eleni, gwnaed taliadau premiwm blynyddol defaid yn dair rhan. Ym mlwyddyn 1999 y cynllun, gwnaed 98 y cant o daliadau gweddill erbyn diwedd Ebrill 2000. Yn 2000, rhyddhawyd dros £8 miliwn o’r taliadau cyntaf erbyn diwedd Gorffennaf, proseswyd dros 90 y cant o’r ail daliadau o fewn chwe diwrnod, a thalwyd 95 y cant o weddill 2000 erbyn 12 Ebrill 2000—a hynny mewn blwyddyn pan na ddechreuodd y gyn Weinyddiaeth Amaethyddiaeth, Pysgodfeydd a Bwyd brosesu taliadau tan ddiwedd Ebrill. Yn 2001, proseswyd 90 y cant o’r taliadau cyntaf yng Ngorffennaf, rhyddhawyd 96 y cant o’r ail daliadau o fewn tridiau a thalwyd 92 y cant o’r gweddill erbyn diwedd Mawrth 2002, fis cyfan o flaen y targed. Gobeithiaf fod Aelodau’r wrthblaid yn cytuno bod honno’n record ragorol o dan unrhyw amgylchiadau. Fodd bynnag, mae cyflawni hynny i gyd pan fu rhaglen newid mor anferth ar waith yn dyst o’r gofal a’r sylw y mae ein staff yn eu rhoi i’r cymunedau ffermio a gwledig yng Nghymru.

This year, officials have been working hard to establish three new computer systems as part of the overall change programme to replace existing systems, which were rapidly becoming difficult and hugely expensive to support. The new systems will be a platform for the schemes that we currently administer and, as Cynog rightly said, whatever emerges from the current mid-term review of the CAP. Sticking to the old systems was not a realistic option. Make no mistake, administrations will have to modernise. We are currently going through that process and England will face the same challenge over the next two to three years.

Eleni, bu swyddogion yn gweithio’n galed i sefydlu tair system gyfrifiadurol newydd fel rhan o’r rhaglen newid gyffredinol i amnewid y systemau presennol, a oedd yn prysur fynd yn anodd ac yn ddrud iawn eu cynnal. Bydd y systemau newydd yn llwyfan i’r cynlluniau yr ydym yn eu gweinyddu ar hyn o bryd ac, fel y dywedodd Cynog, beth bynnag a fydd yn deillio o’r adolygiad canol tymor presennol o’r polisi amaethyddol cyffredin. Nid oedd glynu wrth yr hen systemau’n ddewis realistig. Cewch fod yn sicr y bydd gweinyddiaethau’n gorfod moderneiddio. Yr ydym ni’n mynd drwy’r broses honno a bydd Lloegr yn wynebu’r un her dros y ddwy i dair blynedd nesaf.

The first payment due while the new systems were being developed was the sheep annual premium. Let us remind ourselves of the facts. I am pleased that even before bulk payments started we were able to make a small number of manual payments because of particular cases of individual hardship. Peter should send the details of any individual cases not dealt with to me and I will deal with them.

Y taliad cyntaf a oedd i’w wneud tra oedd y systemau newydd yn cael eu datblygu oedd y premiwn blynyddol defaid. Gadewch inni ddwyn y ffeithiau i gof. Yr wyf yn falch ein bod wedi gallu gwneud nifer fach o daliadau â llaw, hyd yn oed cyn dechrau’r swmp-daliadau, oherwydd achosion penodol o galedi unigol. Dylai Peter anfon ataf fanylion unrhyw achosion unigol na ddeliwyd â hwy a gwnaf fi ddelio â hwy.

The next fact that Members must face head-on is that it is not correct to say that payments were due on 16 October. Payments can be made between 16 October this year and 31 March 2003. We aim to begin paying as quickly as we can. This year, we started making payments on 18 November. The key point is that, in the first week of processing, over 75 per cent of farmers’ claims—to the value of over £50 million—were released. We are on target to pay over 90 per cent of premium claims by the end of this week. That means that sheep farmers in Wales will have received about £59 million, compared with £38 million at the same time last year. Even if you account for the increase in rates this year, sheep farmers are still better off. In previous years, they would only have received 60 per cent of the sheep annual premium payment by the end of November. Far from being the subject of criticism, it should be blindingly obvious that officials have again come up trumps.

Y ffaith nesaf y mae’n rhaid i Aelodau ei hwynebu ar ei phen yw nad cywir yw dweud bod taliadau’n ddyledus ar 16 Hydref. Gellir gwneud taliadau rhwng 16 Hydref eleni a 31 Mawrth 2003. Yr ydym yn ceisio dechrau talu mor fuan ag y gallwn. Eleni, gwnaethom ddechrau gwneud taliadau ar 18 Tachwedd. Y pwynt allweddol yw bod dros 75 y cant o hawliadau ffermwyr—gwerth dros £50 miliwn—wedi’u rhyddhau, yn yr wythnos gyntaf o brosesu. Yr ydym ar y llwybr iawn i dalu dros 90 y cant o’r hawliadau premiwm erbyn diwedd yr wythnos hon. Mae hynny’n golygu y bydd ffermwyr defaid yng Nghymru wedi derbyn tua £59 miliwn, o’i gymharu â £38 miliwn yr un adeg y llynedd. Hyd yn oed os rhowch gyfrif am y cynnydd yn y cyfraddau eleni, mae’n dal i fod yn well ar ffermwyr defaid. Mewn blynyddoedd a fu, ni fyddent ond wedi derbyn 60 y cant o’r taliad premiwm blynyddol defaid erbyn diwedd Tachwedd. Yn hytrach na bod yn destun beirniadaeth, dylai fod yn gwbl amlwg bod swyddogion wedi gwneud yn well na’r disgwyl unwaith eto.

I will now give the facts about the other schemes. Payment of the sheep annual premium less favoured area supplement is the next task to which officials will turn once the bulk of premium payments are released. These payments will begin in early December. Arable aid payments must be made by the end of January. We will begin paying the 80 per cent advance of the beef special premium in December. We will face difficulties if we attempt to pay suckler cow advances before Christmas, after the closing date for claims on 6 December; we cannot, of course, pay the advances until after that date. Further development work remains to be done, and we cannot risk the inevitable disallowance and financial penalty associated with paying claims on which controls are not fully in place. Officials are pulling out all the stops to begin making those payments in the new year.

Rhoddaf y ffeithiau’n awr am y cynlluniau eraill. Talu atodiad ardal lai ffafriol y premiwm blynyddol defaid yw’r dasg nesaf y bydd swyddogion yn dechrau arni ar ôl rhyddhau’r rhan helaethaf o’r taliadau premiwm. Dechreuir eu talu ddechrau Rhagfyr. Rhaid gwneud taliadau cymorth tir âr erbyn diwedd Ionawr. Byddwn yn dechrau talu’r 80 y cant o flaendal y premiwm arbennig eidion yn Rhagfyr. Byddwn yn wynebu anawsterau os ceisiwn dalu blaendaliadau buchod sugno cyn y Nadolig, ar ôl y dyddiad cau ar gyfer hawliadau ar 6 Rhagfyr; wrth gwrs, ni allwn dalu’r blaendaliadau tan ar ôl y dyddiad hwnnw. Mae angen gwneud gwaith datblygu pellach, ac ni allwn fentro’r gwrthodiad anochel a’r gosb ariannol sy’n gysylltiedig â thalu hawliadau nad yw rheolaethau’n llawn weithredol ar eu cyfer. Mae swyddogion yn gwneud eu gorau glas i ddechrau gwneud y taliadau hynny yn y flwyddyn newydd.

I urge Members to support the Government’s amendment, which notes that we have outperformed other UK administrations in previous years, supports our hard-working staff in their endeavours and accepts that this work is highly necessary to give the Assembly the proper platform for work ahead in the years to come.

Anogaf yr Aelodau i gefnogi gwelliant y Llywodraeth, sy’n nodi ein bod wedi perfformio’r well na gweinyddiaethau eraill y DU mewn blynyddoedd blaenorol, ein bod yn cefnogi ein staff gweithgar yn eu hymdrechion ac yn derbyn bod y gwaith hwn yn dra angenrheidiol i roi llwyfan priodol i’r Cynulliad ar gyfer y gwaith sydd o’i flaen yn y blynyddoedd i ddod.

Rhodri Glyn Thomas spoken in Welsh and English p. 95

Rhodri Glyn Thomas siaradwyd yn Gymraeg ac yn Saesneg t. 95

The way in which you are using your staff is disgraceful, Mike. We have made it clear that we have nothing but admiration for their work. However you are using them as a lame excuse not to take responsibility for the situation. This is disgraceful behaviour from a Minister.

yn Saesneg Mae’r modd yr ydych yn defnyddio’ch staff yn warthus, Mike. Rhoesom ar ddeall nad oes gennym ddim ond canmoliaeth i’w gwaith. Fodd bynnag, yr ydych chi’n eu defnyddio fel esgus wan i beidio â derbyn cyfrifoldeb am y sefyllfa. Mae hwn yn ymddygiad gwarthus gan Weinidog.

Trof at rai o’r cyfraniadau a wnaed yn ystod y ddadl hon. Nid wyf yn siŵr beth yr oedd Peter Rogers yn ceisio’i ddweud. Soniodd yr wythnos diwethaf am y taliadau hyn pan ddylai fod wedi trafod yr adolygiad o’r polisi amaethyddol cyffredin. Fel Ceidwadwr da, dywedodd y peth iawn ar yr adeg anghywir, yn y lle anghywir, yn y drefn anghywir. Yr hyn a gawsom heddiw oedd yr hyn a gyfeiriodd y Prif Weinidog ato fel llwyth o fustych.

in Welsh I turn to the contributions made during this debate. I am not sure what Peter Rogers was getting at. He discussed subsidies last week when he should have been talking about the review of the common agriculture policy. Like a true Conservative, he said the right thing at the wrong time, in the wrong place and in the wrong order. What we heard today was what the First Minister referred to last week as a load of bullocks.

Codwyd nifer o bwyntiau gan Janet Ryder. Bu i rai Aelodau ddweud nad yw’r sefyllfa bresennol yn argyfwng nac yn broblem. Serch hynny, dywedodd un undeb amaethyddol fod y broblem wedi creu sefyllfa gwbl annheg i ffermwyr Cymru gan nad ydynt yn gallu cystadlu yn y farchnad am anifeiliaid bridio yn erbyn cynhyrchwyr o Loegr a’r Alban oherwydd problemau sy’n ymwneud â llif arian. Nid y fi yn bersonol na Phlaid Cymru sydd yn dweud hyn; undeb amaethyddol sy’n dweud bod ffermwyr Cymru yn methu â chystadlu am fod y taliadau yn hwyr.

in Welsh Janet Ryder raised several points. Some Members claimed that the current situation is not a crisis or a problem. However, one farmers union has said that the problem has created an unfair marketplace for Welsh farmers because their cash-flow problems have meant that they cannot compete with producers from England or Scotland in the breeding stock market. It is not me, nor Plaid Cymru who is saying that; a farmers union has said that farmers cannot compete because payments are late.

Soniodd Mick Bates am y taliad hwn yn benodol.

in Welsh Mick Bates referred specifically to this payment.

Mick, I made it clear at the start of the debate that we are not just talking about one late payment for one scheme, but about late payment for four schemes. It is ridiculous to try to justify the Minister’s actions.

yn Saesneg Mick, rhoddais ar ddeall ar ddechrau’r ddadl nad am un taliad hwyr ar gyfer un cynllun yr ydym yn sôn, ond am dalu hwyr mewn pedwar cynllun. Peth chwerthinllyd yw ceisio cyfiawnhau gweithredoedd y Gweinidog.

Fel y dywedodd Cynog Dafis, yr un peth yr oedd y diwydiant yn ei ddymuno gennych heddiw, Mike German, oedd ymddiheuriad am y sefyllfa. Pe baech chi’n unrhyw fath o ddyn ac unrhyw fath o Weinidog, byddech wedi ymddiheuro.

in Welsh As Cynog Dafis said, the one thing that the industry would have liked to have heard from you today, Mike German, was an apology for the situation. If you were any kind of man or any kind of Minister, you would have apologised.

Ceisiodd Delyth Evans ddweud bod y diwydiant yn ymwybodol o’r hyn a oedd yn digwydd. Nid yw hynny’n wir, ac nid y fi sydd yn dweud hynny, ond yr undebau amaethyddol. Dywedwyd wrthynt ar 18 Medi y byddai’r prosesu yn dechrau ar 23 Medi, ac y byddai’r taliadau yn cael eu gwneud saith diwrnod ar ôl i gyfnod y ffenest daliadau ddechrau ar 16 Hydref. Ni chawsant wybod am y problemau tan 15 Tachwedd, felly peidiwch â cheisio cyfiawnhau’r sefyllfa. Y cyfan yr ydym yn gofyn amdano yw ymchwiliad i sefyllfa wirioneddol argyfyngus.

in Welsh Delyth Evans tried to say that the industry was aware of what was happening. It is the farmers unions, not me, who have said that that is not true. They were told on 18 September that processing would begin on 23 September, and that payments would be made seven days after the payment window opened on 16 October. They were not informed of the problems until 15 November, therefore do not try to justify the situation. All we are asking for is an inquiry into this crisis.

We are not calling for this inquiry to score political points, but because farmers want to know why you failed, Minister, to pay them and why you will fail to make payments to them under four other schemes. You sit there smiling to yourself, complacent. Minister, if you were a farmer in Wales waiting for payment, you would not be smiling complacently at this moment. You would be asking for an inquiry and for the head of the Minister for Rural Development.

yn Saesneg Nid ydym yn galw am ymchwiliad er mwyn sgorio pwyntiau gwleidyddol, ond am fod ffermwyr am wybod, Weinidog, pam y gwnaethoch fethu â’u talu a pham y byddwch yn methu â’u talu o dan bedwar cynllun arall. Eisteddwch yno’n gwenu’n hunanfoddhaus. Weinidog, pe baech yn ffermwr yng Nghymru’n disgwyl tâl, ni fyddech yn gwenu’n hunanfoddhaus ar hyn o bryd. Byddech yn gofyn am ymchwiliad ac am i’r Gweinidog dros Ddatblygu Gwledig dalu’r pris.

Gwelliant 1 Michael German t. 96

Amendment 1 Michael German p. 96

DerbyniwydAdopted O blaidFor 29 YmatalAbstain 0 Yn erbynAgainst 20

Derbyniwyd y gwelliant.

Amendment carried.

Sut y pleidleisiodd yr AelodauHow Members voted
O blaidFor (29)
  • Lorraine Barrett
  • Mick Bates
  • Peter Black
  • Rosemary Butler
  • Christine Chapman
  • Jane Davidson
  • Andrew Davies
  • Richard Edwards
  • Sue Essex
  • Delyth Evans
  • Michael German
  • Brian Gibbons
  • John Griffiths
  • Christine Gwyther
  • Edwina Hart
  • Jane Hutt
  • Ann Jones
  • Carwyn Jones
  • Peter Law
  • Huw Lewis
  • Val Lloyd
  • Tom Middlehurst
  • Rhodri Morgan
  • Lynne Neagle
  • Alun Pugh
  • Jenny Randerson
  • Karen Sinclair
  • Gwenda Thomas
  • Kirsty Williams
Yn erbynAgainst (20)
  • Nick Bourne
  • Alun Cairns
  • Cynog Dafis
  • David Davies
  • Geraint Davies
  • Janet Davies
  • Jocelyn Davies
  • William Graham
  • Brian Hancock
  • David Ian Jones
  • Elin Jones
  • Gareth Jones
  • Ieuan Wyn Jones
  • David Lloyd
  • Jonathan Morgan
  • Peter Rogers
  • Janet Ryder
  • Rhodri Glyn Thomas
  • Dafydd Wigley
  • Phil Williams

Alun Cairns spoken in English p. 97

Alun Cairns siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 97

I ask that the divisional bell be rung.

Gofynnaf am ganu cloch y bleidlais.

John Marek The Deputy Presiding Officer spoken in English p. 97

John Marek Y Dirprwy Lywydd siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 97

Under Standing Order No. 6.21, at least three Members must support a request that the bell be rung. Do three Members support the request? I see that they do. Clerk, please ring the bell.

O dan Reol Sefydlog Rhif 6.21, rhaid i o leiaf dri Aelod gefnogi cais am ganu’r gloch. A oes tri Aelod sy’n cefnogi’r cais? Gwelaf fod. Glerc, cenwch y gloch, os gwelwch yn dda.

Ann Jones spoken in English p. 97

Ann Jones siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 97

Point of order. Will you rule on whether the behaviour of the Conservative group contravenes our equal opportunities policy?

Pwynt o drefn. A wnewch ddyfarnu a yw ymddygiad y grŵp Ceidwadol yn groes i’n polisi cyfle cyfartal?

John Marek The Deputy Presiding Officer spoken in English p. 97

John Marek Y Dirprwy Lywydd siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 97

I have not heard anything that was out of order while in the Chair this afternoon.

Ni chlywais ddim a oedd allan o drefn tra bûm yn y Gadair y prynhawn yma.

Rosemary Butler spoken in English p. 97

Rosemary Butler siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 97

Point of order. Will you rule on whether votes that are taken after 5.30 p.m. are legal if the Assembly has not voted to extend the time for Pleanry?

Pwynt o drefn. A wnewch ddyfarnu a yw pleidleisiau ar ôl 5.30 p.m. yn gyfreithlon os na phleidleisiodd y Cynulliad dros estyn yr amser ar gyfer y Cyfarfod Llawn?

John Marek The Deputy Presiding Officer spoken in English p. 98

John Marek Y Dirprwy Lywydd siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 98

Plenary is in session and therefore all of our proceedings and decisions are in order. We will be in session a lot longer unless we get on with this vote.

Mae’r Cyfarfod Llawn yn eistedd ac felly mae ein trafodion a’n penderfyniadau mewn trefn. Byddwn yn eistedd yn hwy o lawer os nad awn ymlaen â’r bleidlais hon.

Gwelliant 2 Peter Rogers t. 98

Amendment 2 Peter Rogers p. 98

GwrthodwydRejected O blaidFor 7 YmatalAbstain 0 Yn erbynAgainst 41

Gwrthodwyd y gwelliant.

Amendment rejected.

Sut y pleidleisiodd yr AelodauHow Members voted
O blaidFor (7)
  • Nick Bourne
  • Alun Cairns
  • David Davies
  • William Graham
  • David Ian Jones
  • Jonathan Morgan
  • Peter Rogers
Yn erbynAgainst (41)
  • Lorraine Barrett
  • Mick Bates
  • Peter Black
  • Rosemary Butler
  • Christine Chapman
  • Jane Davidson
  • Andrew Davies
  • Geraint Davies
  • Janet Davies
  • Jocelyn Davies
  • Richard Edwards
  • Sue Essex
  • Michael German
  • Brian Gibbons
  • John Griffiths
  • Christine Gwyther
  • Brian Hancock
  • Edwina Hart
  • Jane Hutt
  • Ann Jones
  • Carwyn Jones
  • Elin Jones
  • Gareth Jones
  • Ieuan Wyn Jones
  • Peter Law
  • Huw Lewis
  • David Lloyd
  • Val Lloyd
  • Tom Middlehurst
  • Rhodri Morgan
  • Lynne Neagle
  • Alun Pugh
  • Jenny Randerson
  • Janet Ryder
  • Karen Sinclair
  • Gwenda Thomas
  • Owen John Thomas
  • Rhodri Glyn Thomas
  • Dafydd Wigley
  • Kirsty Williams
  • Phil Williams

Cynnig wedi’i ddiwygio Rhodri Glyn Thomas t. 99

Amended motion Rhodri Glyn Thomas p. 99

DerbyniwydAdopted O blaidFor 28 YmatalAbstain 0 Yn erbynAgainst 20

Derbyniwyd y cynnig wedi’i ddiwygio.

Amended motion carried.

Sut y pleidleisiodd yr AelodauHow Members voted
O blaidFor (28)
  • Lorraine Barrett
  • Mick Bates
  • Peter Black
  • Rosemary Butler
  • Christine Chapman
  • Jane Davidson
  • Andrew Davies
  • Richard Edwards
  • Sue Essex
  • Michael German
  • Brian Gibbons
  • John Griffiths
  • Christine Gwyther
  • Edwina Hart
  • Jane Hutt
  • Ann Jones
  • Carwyn Jones
  • Peter Law
  • Huw Lewis
  • Val Lloyd
  • Tom Middlehurst
  • Rhodri Morgan
  • Lynne Neagle
  • Alun Pugh
  • Jenny Randerson
  • Karen Sinclair
  • Gwenda Thomas
  • Kirsty Williams
Yn erbynAgainst (20)
  • Nick Bourne
  • Alun Cairns
  • David Davies
  • Geraint Davies
  • Janet Davies
  • Jocelyn Davies
  • William Graham
  • Brian Hancock
  • David Ian Jones
  • Elin Jones
  • Gareth Jones
  • Ieuan Wyn Jones
  • David Lloyd
  • Jonathan Morgan
  • Peter Rogers
  • Janet Ryder
  • Owen John Thomas
  • Rhodri Glyn Thomas
  • Dafydd Wigley
  • Phil Williams

John Marek The Deputy Presiding Officer spoken in English p. 99

John Marek Y Dirprwy Lywydd siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 99

That brings today’s proceedings to a close.

Daw hynny â chyfarfod heddiw i ben.

Daeth y cyfarfod i ben am 5.42 p.m.

The session ended at 5.42 p.m.