Cyhoeddodd Comisiynydd Plant Cymru, Peter Clarke, ei adroddiad blynyddol cyntaf ym mis Hydref 2002, ac fe’i cyflwynodd i’r Pwyllgor Iechyd a Gwasanaethau Cymdeithasol ar 28 Tachwedd. Yr wyf yn falch o gael y cyfle hwn i gyflwyno ymateb Llywodraeth Cynulliad Cymru i’r adroddiad.

Cymerodd Llywodraeth y Cynulliad y cyfle cyntaf posibl i ddatgan ein hymrwymiad i sefydlu amddifynnydd â llais annibynnol dros blant yng Nghymru. Mesur Comisiynydd Plant Cymru oedd y darn cyntaf o ddeddfwriaeth Cymru’n unig i basio drwy’r Senedd ar gais y Cynulliad. Yr oedd yn briodol y daeth Peter Clarke yn gomisiynydd plant statudol cyntaf y Deyrnas Unedig ar Ddydd Gŵyl Dewi 2001. Mae adroddiad Peter Clarke yn llwyr gyfiawnhau’r flaenoriaeth a roesom i greu swydd y comisiynydd plant. Mae’n tynnu ein sylw at y sylwadau a wnaed iddo dros y flwyddyn ddiwethaf gan blant a phobl ifanc. Wrth godi proffil y pynciau hyn, mae’n cyflawni ei rôl fel amddiffynnydd â llais dros blant Cymru. Ar yr un pryd, mae’n cyflwyno sawl her arwyddocaol i Lywodraeth y Cynulliad, y gallwn yn awr ymateb iddynt yn ffurfiol.

The commissioner set out his overriding concern for the position of children and young people by drawing attention to the extent of child poverty in this country. The Welsh Assembly Government shares his concern for this issue. No-one, especially children and young people, should be disadvantaged or prevented from achieving their full potential because of where they live or their family circumstances. Over the past few years, we have devised new ways to address poverty. Two programmes in particular, Communities First and Cymorth, the children and youth support fund, have been established to target those areas that suffer the greatest disadvantage and deprivation. Poverty affects children and young people in many ways, and these measures aim to tackle the issue on many fronts: through education, training, and employment opportunities, as well as through making improvements in housing, the surrounding environment, and health.

In order to bring our programmes into a cohesive framework, we have set up a task group to advise us on the production of a child anti-poverty strategy. It is chaired by Charlotte Williams, a lecturer in social policy at the University of Wales, Bangor. The group has the task of preparing a report that will set out a long-term strategic direction and recommendations for further action on which the Assembly Government can develop firm proposals.

The commissioner acknowledges that the Assembly Government has made significant progress in supporting the active participation of children and young people. We support Funky Dragon, the children and young people’s Assembly for Wales, as a representative, self-governing body that is managed by children and young people. Funky Dragon has established a website and has published good practice guidelines on participation, entitled ‘Breathing Fire into Participation’.

We were pleased to note that the commissioner identified the Children First programme as an example of good practice in the participation of children and young people. As part of that programme, we have established an advocacy task group to undertake a full review of children’s advocacy in Wales. Last week, the commissioner published ‘Telling Concerns’, his review of complaints and whistle-blowing procedures and children’s advocacy services in Wales. Most of the recommendations are directed at local authorities, but the advocacy task group will have a key role to play in advising the Assembly Government on its response.

The commissioner raised several educational issues, reflecting the concerns of children and young people. He has welcomed the changes that we have already made to the national curriculum assessments, through discontinuing the key stage 1 tests and the assessment of post-16 qualifications and key skills. These changes will reduce the pressures on students and their teachers, and will introduce a more flexible student-centred approach to assessing key skills, particularly in the 14 to 19 age range.

He also reports the concerns expressed to him by young people about the poor standards of school toilets. Improvements to toilet facilities are eligible under the school buildings improvement grant, and I am pleased to report that many such schemes have now been funded. The Assembly is committed to improving school buildings as a key priority, and to ensuring that all school buildings in Wales are in good physical condition and well maintained by 2010, at the latest.

As well as taking on the role of the independent champion for the rights of children and young people in Wales, the commissioner and his team also have a duty to challenge policies or actions that he feels are detrimental to the interests of young people. He has already shown how he is influencing the policy agenda whenever and wherever it impacts upon children and young people. One of his first public announcements concerned the effect that building schools on former landfill sites might have on children’s health. As a direct result of those concerns, the Welsh Assembly Government is now researching ways in which the planning system can consider health issues more appropriately. The views of a broad range of community interests will also be taken into account, through improved consultation procedures on planning policy development.

The commissioner has raised concerns over the protection of children’s rights, in particular, the physical punishment of children. The Assembly Government has stated its opposition, in principle, to hitting children as a form of punishment. We are working towards changing the attitude of parents and carers towards it, and we have already banned its use in every form of public care and in all regulated children’s services in Wales. We are now developing a children and parents’ code for Wales to provide guidance on a range of issues surrounding positive parenting, family relationships and behaviour.

Wales was commended by the recent report of the United Nations committee on the rights of the child on our establishment of the post of Children’s Commissioner for Wales. The commissioner has indicated that he intends to review the position of children in Wales, in the context of their rights under the UN convention on the rights of the child. We welcome this proposal.

The Assembly Government welcomes this report and the important issues that it raises. We intend to build upon the progress we have made over the past year in addressing these matters. I take this opportunity to thank Peter Clarke and his colleagues for their work, and to wish them success for the coming year.

I also thank Peter Clarke and his team. All of us involved in establishing the Children’s Commissioner for Wales will feel that it is one of the best achievements of this first National Assembly; when the National Assembly’s history is written, that achievement will be recorded. It is pleasing to see Wales commended by the UN, particularly in a context where the British Government and Britain overall did not do very well; Wales did well, partly because of the children’s commissioner.

Given the importance of the commissioner’s report and the Government’s response to it, we regret that the matter could only be dealt with in a statement. Although it may not be possible, due to time constraints, to hold a full debate in response to this commissioner’s report and the Government’s response to it, will the Government consider establishing a principle of holding a proper debate in future? The commissioner’s report contains wide-ranging issues, which we can only touch upon in a statement on your response. More needs to be said, and more Members may want to speak, than can be fitted into this relatively short slot.

Having said that, I will raise some specific concerns. On school toilets, there can be no worse mark of disrespect than expecting our children and young people to use facilities that we would not dream of using, and which would be unlawful in a workplace. I acknowledge the National Assembly Government’s work with regard to school buildings overall, but will you speak to your colleague, the Minister for Education and Lifelong Learning, about asking local education authorities to give specific priority to toilet facilities? It is a basic request and LEAs should give priority to it when distributing the funding available in the grant scheme. It cannot be right that children still have to go outside to go to the lavatory in our schools, and it is interesting that children have also identified this as a priority.

The commissioner’s report, and your response to it, refer to testing, and the commissioner’s report asks for a wide-ranging national debate on how best we can test children and young people. Do you accept what the commissioner says, namely that children are currently seriously over-tested, and that the generation of children that have passed through the system have suffered from that? The commissioner refers to losing the thrill of learning. I acknowledge that positive steps have been taken—abolishing key stage 1 tests was excellent—but what will your Government do to promote a national debate about this whole issue?

On special educational needs, the commissioner’s report says that services for children with special needs are in crisis in Wales. Does the Government of Wales acknowledge that, and will you, in response to the commissioner’s report, give a higher priority to the issues that have been identified? Again, one acknowledges that some changes have been made, but Members will know from their constituency surgeries that they are not enough and that they do not happen fast enough.

Your statement referred to landfill sites. It is a good thing—

I apologise. I have one further brief question on landfill sites. How can your Government, on one level, write to local authorities advising them that they can safely ignore what the commissioner says about the reports on building on landfill sites, and then say that you are allowing his views to influence policy. That is difficult to understand. It is a matter of grave concern and I want you to respond to it.

I agree with your first remark, namely that it is to the enormous credit of the Assembly that its first action leading to an all-Wales Bill was establishing the post of the Children’s Commissioner for Wales. It is a matter of personal pride and pleasure to me that establishing the post of Children’s Commissioner for Wales by legislation was one of a relatively small number of matters for which I was responsible in Labour’s 1999 manifesto. It is rare for politicians to be able to say that they feel partially personally responsible for a manifesto intention becoming a reality. I still pinch myself sometimes that it happened in that way. However, it could not have happened without cross-party support in the Assembly, and the climate established by the Waterhouse report in stating that this should happen when the Assembly came into being.

You questioned whether this statement should have been a debate. It is for the Business Committee to decide whether there should be a debate, but, as far as I am aware, a statement is necessary to give the Welsh Assembly Government’s formal response to the children’s commissioner’s annual report.

On school toilets, I agree that the tŷ bach tu fas is the ultimate form of social exclusion. I remember the tŷ bach at the end of the playground in Radyr council school when I was a pupil there, and the tales of many disasters on the way to the tŷ bach tu fas. Such accidents are difficult and nasty experiences for children to have to cope with—not in 1943 when I went to school, with all the exigencies of war, but in 2003, 60 years later. It is still happening and it is not good enough. The provision of funding for school building improvements is now sufficient for there to be no excuses not to put these matters right over the next few years. There are no excuses for that and we will continue to press for it to be as high on the agenda of school building improvements as possible, in line with the priority that children give it.

You also mentioned stress and tests. A major improvement, which is always commented upon favourably to me whenever I visit a junior school, was getting rid of the key stage 1 tests. Whether we can go further than that is a matter for future discussion in the light of what I believe will prove to be the beneficial effects of abolishing key stage 1 tests, when that can be analysed. There is a more general issue about how much examination pressure is good for children, and I note the comments that have been made about AS-levels, which inject examinations into what used to be the relatively quiet year of what was called the lower sixth form when I was in school.

You also mentioned special educational needs. There is great dissatisfaction with this, and always has been, because it is so difficult to establish a right to a statement and then to get the additional attention that a child needs. I was talking to a parent this morning who told me how pleased he was that his son was able to obtain additional help for dyslexia without being taken out of his regular school, and about how good the progress had been. However, I know that that is not the case throughout Wales. Special educational needs provision covers a wide range of measures, but I think that we are making progress on that front. Through the statementing procedure, it is a right, and accessing provision without financial considerations restricting it so much that you might as well not have that right, is important.

We have not said to local authorities that they can safely ignore the views of the children’s commissioner on landfill—that is a distortion of what we have said. We said to them that they should respect his views. However, we have also told them that he is not an overlord and does not issue commands to local authorities stating ‘thou shalt not build that school on that site’. It was never envisaged that the children’s commissioner would have such power over local authorities. They should take into account what the commissioner has said, and if they wish to maintain their previous position, that they would be within their legal rights to build on such sites, they can do so. We have told authorities that they should respect the commissioner’s views, and certainly not safely ignore them. However, parents who are worried about particular schools or sites must not expect the commissioner to act as a kind of chief justice of the Supreme Court of the United States and order local authorities not to build a school on a certain site.

I realise that this statement is on the Welsh Assembly Government’s response to the annual report of the Children’s Commissioner for Wales, but subsequent to that report, the commissioner has produced a report that expresses concern about the implementation of the Waterhouse recommendations given that they affect local government. In particular, he has expressed concern about corporate parenting. You will be aware that the Local Government and Housing Committee has also raised these concerns. In response to a written question from me, you gave an assurance that the Cabinet’s sub-committee on children and young people would discuss this issue. Will you seek progress on this so that we can avoid negative comments in next year’s report?

I am grateful for your comments, because I did have a problem with a question that you asked on corporate parenting previously, as I did not hear the word ‘corporate’. It is an important issue. Local authority members and officers sometimes have to stand in for the natural parents of a child. We have discussed this in the sub-committee and we will make recommendations on how the new duties of corporate parenting should be carried forward in an appropriate and sensitive way. Not everything recommended by Waterhouse in this regard is easy to implement. There are many pros and cons on the issue of whether random visits by councillors are better than organised ones. There is a role here for specialist officers who have gone through the new Criminal Records Bureau procedures. Many local authority members will not have gone through that process and will not expect to do so either. There are many implications following those procedures, which will prevent some people from making random visits to looked-after children in short or long-term care. Those issues have been considered in extenso in the sub-committee. Either I, or Jane Hutt who chairs that sub-committee, will be able to report back further.

I commend the work of the children’s commissioner, Peter Clarke, and his team. This is an historical occasion. We have this first report, which was initially presented to the Assembly last autumn, and we now have the Government’s response. An opportunity to debate the report more fully would be welcome, though a statement is appropriate in the first instance. I congratulate the Government, the Minister for Health and Social Services, and all of the political parties here for their leadership in establishing the children’s commissioner. The Conservatives did not commit to establishing the commissioner in its last manifesto but we changed our policy in the Assembly’s first months. Our comments and

advice were received with good grace. We are grateful for that because we see the office beginning to flourish and take root. It is important that the office of the children’s commissioner receives cross-party support in future.

This is how devolution should work. We should establish best practice in certain areas and then see that emulated across the United Kingdom. I believe that that is likely to happen in the case of establishing the children’s commissioner. It demonstrates what can happen when you have a model of governance that allows for some form of devolution or federalism. I wish that we had picked our targets in some other areas with the necessary discipline to really make a difference.

I will focus on one issue, which is not in the report as such. The office of the children’s commissioner was established because of the concern of many people about the cases in north Wales—but then, unfortunately, similar cases were found all round Wales—and about the state of social care for children. The Waterhouse report recommended that the children’s commissioner be established. Since then we have seen joint reviews of social services in nearly every authority. Within the next six months every authority will have been inspected. Several of our authorities have failed badly and I think that nearly all of them have failed in terms of the quality of children’s services that they deliver. No authority has been found to be delivering children’s services well. We must ponder this point carefully. The phenomenon that established the office of the children’s commissioner still exists and probably in its full force as it did, alas, 10 or 20 years ago. We must acknowledge that if we do not improve the quality of children’s services, we will not gain anything like the level of benefit we would want to have from the office of the children’s commissioner.

The commissioner should currently be considering the future of the joint reviews of social services. I believe that what was presented to the Health and Social Services Committee last week is that we move away from a robust and comprehensive system of joint reviews to a system that will be located within the Assembly—not without—without operational independence. I fear for the future of the inspection of social services and local authorities. We would be in dereliction of our duty to children if we did not ensure that the system remains robust.

David, I think that you struck the right note, in that I welcome the words of congratulation in your opening remarks, which noted the historical significance. History of course is one thing, but avoiding complacency on the back of congratulation is equally important. You said that we should ensure that the work proceeds and that we remember why the children’s commissioner had to be instituted. It was instituted because the Waterhouse inquiry found this gulag archipelago of children’s homes across north Wales; however, that was not restricted to north Wales, nor was it restricted to Wales. In remembering that, we must ensure that not only are there far fewer children’s homes and people in the looked-after sector who are looked after in a different way, but also that they are inspected and that standards are maintained, so that we never have to institute another Waterhouse report in Wales. Likewise, when it comes to individual children who are at home, it is not always the answer. The Victoria Climbié case proves that; that case was not in Wales, but that is not relevant. The recommendation made by the Lord Laming inquiry into that case—which was a disaster and tragedy—said that England should follow Wales’s lead, and have a children’s commissioner. Victoria Climbié was not in residential care, but was being looked after by relatives. Her case was not being followed up in terms of the warnings received by local authorities, the police, school teachers and so on.

You mentioned the joint review of social services; the system needs to be at its very best to ensure that children’s services receive an appropriately high priority within social services. The Audit Commission and the Social Services Inspectorate carry out their work independently, ensuring that there is follow up by appropriate authorities. We have seen local authorities go through the mill, starting with Torfaen County Borough Council about three years ago, and recently Cardiff council—I think that there has been one other since then. None have been particularly encouraging, but the turnaround that has been achieved since this process began with the Torfaen inquiry is encouraging. Seeing Torfaen council, then later the Vale of Glamorgan Council, succeed in turning around services gives hope that other authorities that have had a fairly severe dressing down in joint reviews will also see that there is a way forward. If it has been done in Torfaen and in the Vale of Glamorgan, there is no reason why it cannot be done by other Welsh authorities that receive adverse reports.

I also offer my congratulations to the Children’s Commissioner for Wales on his work; it justifies the cross-party consensus on setting up this post. As has been said, the circumstances which led to setting up this post justify the work which has been carried out to date by the commissioner.

I echo David Melding’s comments about the joint reviews of social services. The results of the reviews are obviously a matter of concern. As further reviews are carried out, we will take an interest in their findings. The important point is that, when the post of the Children’s Commissioner for Wales was set up, the Assembly did not necessarily get all its own way with regard to all the powers that we wanted the commissioner to have. I would be interested to know whether there is an ongoing dialogue between the Assembly and the commissioner in terms of how he could do his job more effectively with additional powers. If that is the case, what can the Assembly Government do to assist the commissioner to acquire those additional powers?

The commissioner’s powers were set up in two steps: first under the Care Standards Act 2000, which covered the provisions under that Act, and secondly under the Children’s Commissioner for Wales Act 2001. It means that the commissioner and his team is not restricted to operating within the powers of the Assembly; they can operate more widely than that. In addition to considering education, health and the other matters that are devolved to us, they can consider youth justice matters for which the youth justice board, and not us, is responsible. It is important that those two areas are seen together. It is fortunate that the commissioner’s powers are not restricted to the matters devolved to the Assembly. The work of the commissioner would be unduly restricted if he could only deal with devolved services. I understand that the Select Committee on Welsh Affairs is currently considering the difficulties caused by where the boundary line is currently drawn with regard to children’s and young people’s services in terms of what is devolved and what is reserved by Westminster.

The Government’s response to the report pays regard to the needs of Welsh speakers, and the difficulties of providing therapy services to children and young people—in particular speech and language therapy. What is your expectation, and what is the requirement, of Assembly sponsored public bodies in managing children’s services with regard to protecting the rights of the child to a choice of language? To assist you, it appears that—

I have the answer here. The report prepared by the University of Wales, Bangor, ‘Acknowledging Need’, identified a number of important recommendations with regard to special educational needs and Welsh speakers, but the same would apply to the training of more staff. We are short of speech and language therapists in the health service and the education service, and we are particularly short of those with Welsh language competence. We must ensure that we make good those shortages by training more speech therapists, and we are doing that.

I welcome the stance that the commissioner has taken against the physical punishment of children, as well as your statement. Bearing in mind the increasing number of parliamentarians who support this campaign, and the increasing number of countries that have banned and are looking to ban the physical punishment of children, will you continue to take a lead so that Wales is viewed as a country that supports parents to develop better, alternative, non-violent forms of discipline? That will have an impact on how young people relate to society as a whole in future.

There are different kinds of bans. We have banned the use of physical punishment in statutory public premises, that is, in the looked-after sector—children’s care homes and so on—and also in schools. However, the course of banning physical punishment in the home is not open to us. I am sure, Christine, that you attended a presentation by a Swedish expert, whose surname I cannot remember—I believe her first name was Malin—who said that although Sweden has a civil code that bans physical punishment in the home, it has never had to use the associated statutory sanctions. The idea of sending parents to jail for smacking their children was not viable. We would welcome a non-statutory code. People question the usefulness of such a code if a parent who slaps does not fear being sent to jail. However, given that statutory sanctions have never been used in Sweden, we need not fear that a non-statutory code would be useless. We hope to publish that code soon.

I also welcome the commissioner’s report and your Government’s response to it. I will refer briefly to your policy on school bullying, which is a major issue and turns school into a living hell for many children. I am glad to see the guidance that you have issued, which concentrates on the need for policies that create a positive school environment, leading to mutual respect. In that context, I draw your attention to the Drugs Abuse Resistance Education charity in the Rhondda, which has been highly successful. It does not simply concentrate on drugs and drug abuse, but adopts a holistic approach of teaching mutual respect to children. The director of DARE appeared before the Local Government and Housing Committee today to give a presentation, and I hope that you would carefully consider making funds available to evaluate the work of DARE so that this worthwhile project might be extended across the whole of Wales.

I agree. Bullying has not gone away because we have appointed a children’s commissioner. It is an everyday occurrence in schoolyards and wherever children congregate. We must try to ensure that we inculcate an anti-bullying culture, the first and most important aspect of which is the willingness of the bullied child to report it and not hide it and bottle it up. That is the first and most vital step. One of the purposes of a children’s commissioner is that children who are bullied, who might otherwise believe that they must cope with it themselves—and sometimes they cannot—feel that their voice will always be heard with respect by their champion. The commissioner was appointed on their behalf and he can be easily approached. That is the first step towards remedying the bullying problem.

I commend your comments on drug education. The difficulty is that there is a group of schoolchildren for whom the stolen fruit is sweetest. If you simply say ‘thou shalt not touch drugs’, it is almost certain that they will want to try them, because they must be good if they are banned. It is important to try to educate children to not want to try the stolen fruit, which could lead to addiction or destroy their life chances. We must discover what works best for susceptible children who want to try something even more if adults tell them that it is banned.

I am delighted that Peter Clarke has ruffled feathers since he has been in post, and he has ruffled them in many areas that, perhaps, those of us involved at the beginning did not expect him to, but it has been right and appropriate for him to do so.

I will concentrate on excluded children, and not just those excluded from school but from exclusion units. There is no backstop. I know that we are considering new regulations and guidance on exclusions, but there is currently no funding for these unfortunate children.

I was not familiar with children being excluded from exclusion units, but we agree entirely with the priority that the children’s commissioner has given to the damaging long-term effects of being excluded on children’s life chances. Some children are excluded at an early age and are dismissed contemptuously. The phrase that I have heard used is ‘borstal bait’, and some so-called experts will tell you that they can ‘spot them at four’. It is a disgrace for children to be seen as such a problem. The attitude of getting rid of such children from classrooms or schools before they upset other children is not the right approach to take.

We have made £11 million available for tackling social disadvantage this year through the grants for education support and training programme. That includes action to address school attendance and behaviour, and preventative work to avoid exclusion and to develop curricular flexibility, out-of-school provision and reintegration mechanisms for excluded pupils. However, I will have to write to you, Rosemary, concerning children excluded from exclusion units, after taking specialist advice from Jane Davidson.

I welcome the opportunity to respond to the Economic Development Committee’s review of energy policy in Wales. I want to record my thanks to the Committee, its Chair, members and the special adviser, Professor Jake Chapman, and congratulate them on the depth of their inquiry and their valuable contribution to the development of Welsh energy policy. The Committee made six primary recommendations, which are embodied in the vision that I set out in my statement on energy policy last week.

On carbon reduction, the Committee favours a zero carbon electricity system in the next 20 to 50 years. Last week, I gave a clear lead on this, and set an ambition to achieve a 20 per cent reduction in carbon by 2020. The development of renewable energy resources is integral to this. However, there needs to be a mixture of measures embracing energy generation, conservation, and efficiency. This is the way forward that supports our industrial base and complements our sustainable development duties.

The Committee recommends a benchmark for renewable energy production of 4 terawatt hours per year, by 2010. This is a realistic target, but we want to move on by endorsing that and building it into a 2020 benchmark, through the carbon reduction ambition that I set out last week. That would broadly equate to a renewable energy benchmark of about 7 TWh for electricity production for 2020. The use of wind power replacing electricity generation from older, unmodernised coal fuel stations will take us a considerable way towards meeting our carbon dioxide reduction targets.

Renewable energy offers economic development opportunities in urban and rural areas. I am confident that this can be done in a way that protects environmentally sensitive areas and important tourist destinations. I have asked the Wales Tourist Board to consider how it could assist in assessing the effects of renewable energy and, particularly, windfarms on tourism. I want as many projects as possible to proceed, with the full involvement of the local community.

Working with our partners will be an essential component in the progress of renewable energy policy in Wales. This partnership approach is exemplified through the workings of the technical advice note 8 group. That group is facilitating work to consider the spatial implications of renewable energy technologies and providing planning advice on various technologies requiring different approaches. We will set high standards and encourage best practice and exemplar projects.

In the short term, onshore and offshore wind power are the technologies most likely to contribute. We are exploring options for repowering existing windfarms, and will hold a seminar later this month to consider this in greater depth. The two offshore windfarms off north Wales have received approval. At North Hoyle, 80 per cent of the onshore works have been completed. It is in line to be completed on schedule and begin operating from October 2003. The Rhyl Flats site is likely to proceed with a slightly longer timescale, although it has received consent, and the Scarweather Sands project, in the Bristol channel, will be determined by the Assembly.

Future offshore generation is an exciting new area of development. We are working with the UK Government and hope that further strategic areas off the Welsh coast can be considered. Between 2010 and 2020, tidal stream, photovoltaic, biomass and, perhaps, wave, are expected to begin to make significant contributions. Biomass has the potential to be of interest to Wales, but is currently an area of market uncertainty. We are investigating prospects and already some biomass projects are being progressed with Objective 1 support. The Forestry Commission’s biomass capital grant scheme, partly funded by Objective 1, will, I hope, be a catalyst in this process. I am hopeful that structural funds will be used effectively to stimulate a wide range of renewable developments. Tidal stream, tidal barrage and wave power have considerable potential for Wales. A number of technologies are being supported, including the Pembrokeshire project by Tidal Hydraulic Generators Ltd. There is a real potential to attract this formative range of tidal technologies to Wales. A number of developers are showing interest and the implementation of the Assembly Government’s innovation action plan ‘Wales for Innovation’, which I launched yesterday, will also help to support new technologies in the energy sector. We are working with the WDA to bring together the best ideas from the private and academic sectors.

In the longer term, special projects such as the Severn barrage may have tremendous potential. Barrages have environmental and economic implications and we see value in further studies. I will continue to press the importance of this on the Minister of State for Energy and Construction. Also in the longer term, energy systems based on fuel cells powered by hydrogen look attractive. Research and development opportunities are already becoming evident in Wales, and we will continue to consider carefully every opportunity to put Wales in the forefront of hydrogen energy developments. The Committee has recommended developing the use of green energy in the Assembly estate and by other agencies and public bodies. The latest figures indicate that a 100 per cent green supply at Cathays park and Cardiff bay represents over 75 per cent of the National Assembly for Wales’s total electricity consumption. We will assess the feasibility of procuring clean electricity supply throughout the rest of the estate. The National Assembly for Wales has also developed a greening operations policy and action plan, which incorporates targets for reducing energy consumption. This will form the basis of an environmental management system, which will be accredited to a recognised standard. Although initially targeting the main buildings in Cardiff, we aim to roll out the EMS to other buildings in the estate where appropriate.

The Committee has recognised the association between renewable energy development and infrastructure strengthening. This is a key issue for the future development of distributed generation through renewable sources. It is one of a range of issues that has been conveyed to me in the many meetings that the First Minister and I have held with senior industry representatives. It is also an issue that I have raised with the UK energy Minister, and I will continue to do so. The energy White Paper sets out a number of actions being taken by OFGEM to help distributed generation, and we will of course be involved in these. We are talking with infrastructure providers and with the distribution network companies in Wales and OFGEM to establish a way forward. As part of this work, we are making a baseline assessment of the electricity infrastructures in Wales and their ability to accommodate increased levels of distributed generation. The Assembly Government shares the Committee’s views on the importance of planning, and sees advantages in holding the powers within electricity legislation to determine large-scale energy generation projects. You will know it is also an issue on which I have given evidence to the Richard commission. We shall continue to press that it is anomalous that such powers are not within the Assembly, and we hope that the UK Government will share this view.

Looking forward, we are arranging a second Wales energy summit to discuss strategic energy policy issues with the industry. Using the outcome from this, the Economic Development Committee’s excellent work, and our continuing dialogue with our partners, we are drawing up an action plan to implement our new energy policies. I assure the Assembly that our objective is to keep Wales at the forefront of renewable developments in energy production and in creating a new mainstream industrial sector.

Your statement has made me a happy person. It was this issue, more than any other, that brought me back into active politics. Your statement clears any problems that I may have with my conscience when I return to my scientific career in May. I enthusiastically welcome the fact that you have not only endorsed the Committee’s benchmark of 4 TWh, but have also set a benchmark of 7 TWh by 2020. I cannot resist adding that Plaid Cymru set the target of 4 TWh in 1992 for this decade. However, this is a genuine all-party policy development that shows inclusivity at its best.

I will not list all the sentences with which I agree; I will merely ask a few brief questions. You mentioned Objective 1 in connection with biomass. There is over £80 million of grant available for clean energy and energy infrastructure and, so far, these funds are under-committed. What plans are in the pipeline to ensure that we use these funds efficiently to implement the policy? I welcome your commitment to a range of renewable technologies. In planning renewable energy with public support, it is essential that we deploy the full range in the most appropriate locations. We expect technical advice note 8 in the near future, which will largely deal with wind energy. Will you press the Minister for Environment to start the planning work on the new technologies that will be implemented after 2010?

I welcome your reference to fuel cells powered by hydrogen. As fuel cells were invented in Swansea, and as Ford is at the forefront of introducing fuel cell engines, have you held discussions with Ford management in the Welsh automotive forum, in the hope that Wales can have a just and large share of this new technology? I have two other brief questions. We have always stressed that conservation of energy is as important as renewable generation. You mentioned the roll-out of the environmental management system to public sector buildings. Have you held discussions with the Minister for Environment and the Minister responsible for housing to see how soon it will be practical to apply the Building Research Establishment environmental assessment method excellence standards to all new public sector buildings? Finally, I welcome the commitment to conducting research into new technologies, such as those included in the innovation action plan. The basic economic importance of energy in itself and as a contributor to regional economic development is great, so will you press for an appropriate earmarked budget to support co-ordinated research in the new technologies, which could be so important to the economic regeneration of Wales?

I never thought that I would stand at the rostrum and hear you say that I have helped clear your conscience. As I said when you first announced that you would not stand for re-election, you will be a great loss to the Assembly. You have made an immense contribution to the Committee’s policy development on this. Your grasp of the technicalities of the field and your commitment shine through in the Committee’s report.

On Objective 1, it is no secret that there has been a lack of response to the priority and measure to which you referred. However, some projects are underway. A large regional bid has received a formal grant offer of just under £3.6 million, in support of a low carbon partnership proposal. I have asked officials and the Welsh European Funding Office to consider potential projects that may benefit from Objective 1 funding. There is evidence that that is beginning to bear fruit, and that projects will be coming forward.

On TAN 8, I am discussing with Sue Essex the implications for other energy-production technologies. I will double-check with Sue where we are with TAN 8 in terms of planning other than windfarm developments. On fuel cells, you are right that the automotive sector in particular sees a huge opportunity here. I have discussed this with the Welsh Development Agency, and particularly with the Welsh automotive forum. This was also raised at an Accelerate Wales dinner at which I spoke a few months ago. A huge amount of work is being done in this area, both within the WDA, in academia and in the automotive industry.

Conservation and the rolling out of EMS has been discussed at official level, but I will need to get back to you on the points about housing standards and apply them to other public buildings. Your suggestion of an earmarked budget for research and development is interesting. I will consider the possibilities of that in the context of the Wales for Innovation action plan. We will consider whether there would be any advantages in pursuing that.

This international view of Wales is linked to its old historical, industrial past in terms of slag heap, smoke stack industries and so on. Your statement gives us the opportunity to project Wales as being at the cutting edge of environmentally friendly energy creation. It presents an opportunity to project a new image of Wales. Even in my constituency, which is in the heartland of industrial south Wales, projects such as wind farms, biomass, energy from waste and so on, are being implemented. That epitomises what you said.

On the role of the Welsh Assembly Government as an exemplar of good practice in this area, you mentioned buildings and so forth, but you did not mention the role of the public sector and its transport fleet. Will you give that some thought? The road vehicle is one of the main sources of pollution and of energy production inefficiencies. What role could the Welsh Assembly Government have in terms of moving forwards on the public sector vehicle fleet and on issues such as conversion to liquified petroleum gas, fuel cell technology and so on? If the public sector led on these issues, it would create the critical mass in the market to be able to move this type of environmentally friendly technology further forward, much faster.

I agree with your point that the old, stereotypical images of Wales are out of date. Following our commitment and policies on renewable energy, we are rapidly becoming a global showcase for sustainable energy production and production technologies.

I will have to discuss the role of the public sector and the transport fleet with Sue Essex as it is within her portfolio. I will let you know of any work being undertaken on that.

I thank the Minister for his statement and echo his comments on the Committee’s Chair and the special adviser to the Committee, Jake Chapman. I add my recognition of the Clerk and Deputy Clerk, John Grimes and Siân Wilkins for their efforts in drafting the papers. I could not offer my gratitude to them until now.

I cannot be as enthusiastic about this as Phil Williams. He said that it was an all-party paper. However, he also recalled that my representations could not be accepted given the Committee’s majority view. Therefore, rather than offer its whole-hearted endorsement, the Conservative group abstained from voting for or against the report in Plenary.

I detect conflicts in Assembly Government policy, of which I have two examples. A week ago, an Assembly Minister and a Deputy Minister said that an offshore windfarm—the Scarweather Sands proposal—mentioned in this report, was a bad idea and that it would have a negative impact on tourism. However, the Minister for Economic Development is displaying a particular enthusiasm for offshore wind energy today, stating that it is the only viable means of renewable energy available in the short and medium term. There is a conflict between the Minister responsible for energy and the two Labour Assembly Members representing the constituency for which the windfarm is proposed. In response to Phil Williams, at least Plaid Cymru Assembly Members did not attend an anti-Scarweather Sands windfarm meeting and I respect their position on that—

Will the Minister confirm that the Assembly Cabinet has conflicting views on this issue? Will he also give more details about the sensitivities with regard to windfarms, and will he ask the Wales Tourist Board to consider how to assess those sensitivities? Considering and accepting applications for windfarms before any report is complete pre-empts any independent investigation. We need to recognise that some of—

At a time when there is so much excitement about new technology, is it not a major strategic error of judgment to place all emphasis on wind, when—[Interruption.]

As we have heard, photovoltaic cells, hydrogen technology and other means of energy production are now possible. Why is the Minister putting all of his eggs into one basket?

It was too much to expect a consensus on this—certainly when Alun is around. Why change a habit of a lifetime? Alun sees conspiracies and conflicts where they do not exist. It is appropriate for Members, as constituency Members, to attend meetings and pass comment on matters that affect them and their constituents. However, I am speaking as the Minister responsible for energy policy in the Assembly Government. I will repeat what I said in my statement. We support, in principle, the development of wind energy. I also said that I want as many projects as possible to proceed—and I do not think that Alun heard this part—with the full involvement of the local community. It is for the Assembly to decide on the Scarweather Sands development. It would be inappropriate for me to comment on that, as the Assembly’s application will be determined under the Transport and Works Act 1992.

At least three parties in the Assembly have welcomed this report and see that, if we are to reduce global warming and to contribute towards that, there is an imperative to move away from carbon-based energy production and towards renewables.

I will be brief and to the point. I am speaking on behalf of Mick Bates—

I am not a member of the Economic Development Committee. I commend this interesting and informative report and thank everyone who has contributed towards it. Devolution gives us a real chance to put a global stamp on environmental issues; we endeavour to do that. While the Liberal Democrats agree with the Committee’s report, the target of 10 per cent of Welsh energy needs being provided by renewables by 2010 is not radical enough: Wales has the capacity to provide much more than that—[Interruption.]

Have you considered setting a target of 15 per cent by 2010? Finally, with regard to biomass, which is a relatively new industry and has less opposition than windpower, what steps has the Assembly taken to promote this growing sector?

We will consider the developments in this area over the next few years and will then decide whether the targets are achievable or whether we need to reconsider them. We may be able to exceed them—we cannot tell at this stage. However, we would always consider our policies in the light of achievements.

Windpower clearly has a huge impact, not only in terms of energy production but also indirectly, in terms of the environmental goods and services sector, which includes energy, windfarm production, and other areas. Therefore, we believe that windpower has huge potential in Wales, and is an area of which we have barely scratched the surface. This sector was included in the business environment action plan, which I launched last week, as we believe that it has huge potential, and wind energy will play a key role in that.