English

Cynulliad Cenedlaethol CymruNational Assembly for Wales · Cyfarfod llawnPlenary sitting

Dydd Mawrth 15 Ionawr 2002

Tuesday 15 January 2002

DechreuoddMet 14:00 · Daeth i benRose 17:08

Gweld y Cofnod (PDF)View the Record (PDF)

Heb ei wirio â llaw etoNot yet checked by hand

CynnwysContents

  1. 3Cwestiynau i Brif Weinidog CymruQuestions to the First Minister
    1. 3Cymunedau sydd Angen Cymorth EconomaiddCommunities in Need of Economic Assistance
    2. 5Lefelau Diweithdra yng NghymruUnemployment Levels in Wales
    3. 7Ymchwilio i’r Ffrwydriad yng Ngwaith Dur MargamInvestigating the Explosion at Margam Steelworks
    4. 9Effaith yr Ewro ar GymruThe Impact of the Euro on Wales
    5. 13Pwysigrwydd Cynhwysiant CymdeithasolThe Importance of Social Inclusion
    6. 15Blaenoriaethau’r Cynulliad CenedlaetholThe National Assembly’s Priorities
    7. 21Refferendwm ar Arian Sengl EwropA Referendum on the Single European Currency
    8. 22Cydgysylltu Polisïau Trawsbynciol ar gyfer y Canolbarth a’r GorllewinCo-ordinating Cross-cutting Policies for Mid and West Wales
  2. 25Datganiad BusnesBusiness Statement
  3. 27Pwyntiau o DrefnPoints of Order
  4. 28Datganiad gan y Dirprwy LywyddStatement by the Deputy Presiding Officer
  5. 29Cymeradwyo Adroddiad Grant Arbennig (Rhif 21) (Cymru) 2001 Cyllid Lywodraeth Leol (Cymru)Approval of the Local Government Finance (Wales) Special Grant Report (No. 21) (Wales) 2001 1 bleidlais1 vote
  6. 36Pwynt o DrefnPoint of Order
  7. 37Cymeradwyo Adroddiad Grant Arbennig (Rhif 9) (Cymru) 2001 Cyllid Llywodraeth Leol (Cymru)Approval of the Local Government Finance (Wales) Special Grant Report (No. 9) (Wales) 2001 1 bleidlais1 vote
  8. 43Strategaeth Gofal SylfaenolPrimary Care Strategy 10 o bleidleisiau10 votes
  9. 86Adroddiad y Pwyllgor Llywodraeth Leol a Thai ar y Mesur DigartrefeddThe Local Government and Housing Committee Report on the Homelessness Bill 1 bleidlais1 vote

PleidleisiauVotes

PleidlaisVoteO blaidForYmatalAbstainYn erbynAgainstCanlyniadResult
Cymeradwyo Adroddiad Grant Arbennig (Rhif 21) (Cymru) 2001 Cyllid Lywodraeth Leol (Cymru)Approval of the Local Government Finance (Wales) Special Grant Report (No. 21) (Wales) 2001
Cynnig NDM916Motion NDM9165200DerbyniwydAdopted
Cymeradwyo Adroddiad Grant Arbennig (Rhif 9) (Cymru) 2001 Cyllid Llywodraeth Leol (Cymru)Approval of the Local Government Finance (Wales) Special Grant Report (No. 9) (Wales) 2001
Cynnig NDM917Motion NDM9174900DerbyniwydAdopted
Strategaeth Gofal SylfaenolPrimary Care Strategy
Gwelliant 1Amendment 122030GwrthodwydRejected
Gwelliant 3Amendment 323029GwrthodwydRejected
Gwelliant 4Amendment 48044GwrthodwydRejected
Gwelliant 5Amendment 523030GwrthodwydRejected
Gwelliant 6Amendment 615830GwrthodwydRejected
Gwelliant 7Amendment 781431GwrthodwydRejected
Gwelliant 8Amendment 823030GwrthodwydRejected
Gwelliant 9Amendment 923029GwrthodwydRejected
Gwelliant 10Amendment 1081530GwrthodwydRejected
Cynnig NDM915Motion NDM91530158DerbyniwydAdopted
Adroddiad y Pwyllgor Llywodraeth Leol a Thai ar y Mesur DigartrefeddThe Local Government and Housing Committee Report on the Homelessness Bill
Cynnig NDM918Motion NDM9184500DerbyniwydAdopted

TrafodionProceedings

Cyfarfu’r Cynulliad am 2.00 p.m. gyda’r Dirprwy Lywydd yn y Gadair.

The Assembly met at 2.00 p.m. with the Deputy Presiding Officer in the Chair.

Cwestiynau i Brif Weinidog Cymru

Questions to the First Minister

Cymunedau sydd Angen Cymorth Economaidd

Communities in Need of Economic Assistance

Q1 Pauline Jarman spoken in English p. 3

C1 Pauline Jarman siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 3

In his role as policy development co-ordinator of cross-cutting issues, what is the First Minister doing to ensure that communities that need the greatest economic assistance are receiving it? (OAQ14881)

Yn ei rôl fel cydgysylltydd datblygu polisi ar faterion trawsbynciol, beth y mae Prif Weinidog Cymru yn ei wneud i sicrhau bod y cymunedau y mae arnynt angen y cymorth economaidd mwyaf yn cael y cymorth hwnnw? (OAQ14881)

Rhodri Morgan The First Minister spoken in English p. 3

Rhodri Morgan The First Minister siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 3

We are ensuring that they receive assistance via a combination of Objective 1 and the Communities First programme. I am sure, Pauline, that you will want to join me in expressing happiness about and giving a thunderous welcome to the fact that the four hundredth Objective 1 programme has been given the go-ahead. As it happens, it is located in Rhondda Cynon Taff. It is the Help 2 Wales project based in the University of Glamorgan. It will receive over £1.5 million to increase collaboration between small and medium-sized businesses and higher education to help businesses develop new products and explore new markets.

Prif Weinidog Cymru (Rhodri Morgan); Yr ydym yn sicrhau eu bod yn derbyn cymorth drwy gyfuniad o Amcan 1 a’r rhaglen Cymunedau’n Gyntaf. Mae’r pedwar canfed rhaglen Amcan 1 wedi cael yr hawl i fwrw ymlaen ac yr wyf yn siŵr, Pauline, y byddech am ymuno â mi i fynegi llawenydd yn ei chylch a’i chroesawu’n dwymgalon. Fel mae’n digwydd, mae wedi ei leoli yn Rhondda Cynon Taf. Prosiect Cymorth 2 Cymru ydyw, wedi ei leoli ym Mhrifysgol Morgannwg. Bydd yn derbyn dros £1.5 miliwn i gynyddu cydweithrediad rhwng busnesau bach a chanolig eu maint ac addysg uwch i helpu busnesau i ddatblygu cynhyrchion newydd ac ymchwilio i farchnadoedd newydd.

Pauline Jarman spoken in English p. 3

Pauline Jarman siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 3

I declare an interest as a member of Rhondda Cynon Taff County Borough Council, and claim equal credit for the Rhondda Cynon Taff partnership, of which my authority is a member, in that achievement.

Datganaf fuddiant fel aelod o Gyngor Bwrdeistref Sirol Rhondda Cynon Taf, a hawliaf glod cyfatebol i bartneriaeth Rhondda Cynon Taf, y mae fy awdurdod yn aelod ohoni, yn y llwyddiant hwnnw.

Last week, you stated in response to a request from the Coalfield Communities Campaign to set up a taskforce, that given the existing programmes, you could not see any gap to justify doing so. What comfort does that give to the community of Ynys-boeth? Its electoral division is Abercynon and therefore it is not included in the 100 most deprived electoral divisions in Wales—in spite of the fact that its deprivation is equal to that of any of the top 100 wards.

Yr wythnos diwethaf, bu ichi ddweud mewn ymateb i gais gan Ymgyrch y Cymunedau Glofaol i sefydlu tasglu, o gofio’r rhaglenni sy’n bodoli, nad allech weld unrhyw fwlch i gyfiawnhau gwneud hynny. Pa gysur a rydd hynny i gymuned Ynys-boeth? Abercynon yw ei ardal etholaethol ac felly nid yw wedi’i chynnwys yn y 100 ardal etholaethol mwyaf difreintiedig yng Nghymru—er gwaetha’r ffaith fod ei hamddifadedd ogyfuwch ag unrhyw un o’r 100 ward uchaf.

John Marek The Deputy Presiding Officer spoken in English p. 4

John Marek Y Dirprwy Lywydd siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 4

Order. Let us have a short, crisp interchange of questions and answers.

Trefn. Gadewch inni gyfnewid cwestiynau ac atebion yn gryno ac yn fywiog.

Rhodri Morgan The First Minister spoken in English p. 4

Rhodri Morgan Prif Weinidog Cymru siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 4

There are 17 communities in Rhondda Cynon Taff which are listed in the bottom 100 wards for prosperity in Wales. That is the largest number of wards in any one local authority in Wales—for obvious reasons. I cannot comment on which communities have been omitted from that list, because it is based on a set of objective criteria. However, if you want to write to me to explain the basis of your assertion that Ynys-boeth is as deprived as the worst 100 communities in Wales, I will be interested to read your letter.

Mae 17 o gymunedau yn Rhondda Cynon Taf sydd wedi eu rhestru yn y 100 ward isaf o ran eu ffyniant yng Nghymru. Dyna’r nifer mwyaf o wardiau mewn unrhyw un awdurdod lleol yng Nghymru—am resymau amlwg. Ni allaf wneud sylw ar ba gymunedau a hepgorwyd o’r rhestr honno, oherwydd ei bod yn seiliedig ar feini prawf gwrthrychol. Fodd bynnag, os hoffech ysgrifennu ataf i egluro sail eich haeriad fod Ynys-boeth mor ddifreintiedig â’r 100 cymuned waethaf yng Nghymru, byddai diddordeb gennyf i ddarllen eich llythyr.

Michael German The Leader of the Welsh Liberal Democrat Group spoken in English p. 4

Michael German Arweinydd Grŵp y Democratiaid Rhyddfrydol Cymreig siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 4

First Minister, do you agree that good transport connections are important for people in reaching their place of work? It is just as important for residents in areas such as Monmouth which, for many years, was not connected to the rail network. Will you lend your support to the work the Assembly is doing in order to ensure that the all-Wales rail franchise includes providing fast coach connections between towns like Monmouth and the railway network? People can then depend on regular access to their work in other areas of Wales.

Brif Weinidog, a gytunwch fod cysylltiadau trafnidiaeth da yn bwysig er mwyn i bobl gyrraedd eu gweithle? Mae yr un mor bwysig i drigolion mewn ardaloedd megis Trefynwy a oedd, am flynyddoedd lawer, heb ei chysylltu â’r rhwydwaith reilffyrdd. A wnewch chi roi’ch cefnogaeth i’r gwaith a wneir gan y Cynulliad er mwyn sicrhau y bydd masnachfraint rheilffordd Cymru gyfan yn cynnwys cysylltiadau bws cyflym rhwng trefi megis Trefynwy a’r rhwydwaith rheilffyrdd? Gall pobl wedyn ddibynnu ar gael trafnidiaeth reolaidd i’w gwaith mewn ardaloedd eraill o Gymru.

Rhodri Morgan The First Minister spoken in English p. 4

Rhodri Morgan Prif Weinidog Cymru siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 4

I agree. The all-Wales rail franchise is one of the major achievements of the past few months, in our negotiations with Stephen Byers, the Secretary of State for Transport, Local Government and the Regions. Having got that franchise firmly nailed into the Strategic Rail Authority’s announcement yesterday, we are pleased that the franchise will now proceed. The successful bidder will be announced later this year, and the franchise will start to run from early 2003. Connecting the rail franchise with towns without a railhead is key. I will be interested to hear any proposals from the local community in Monmouth on how they want to link to the nearest rail service.

Cytunaf. Masnachfraint rheilffordd Cymru gyfan yw un o gyflawniadau mawr yr ychydig fisoedd diwethaf, yn ein negodiadau gyda Stephen Byers, yr Ysgrifennydd Gwladol dros Drafnidiaeth, Llywodraeth Leol a’r Rhanbarthau. Ar ôl cael y fasnachfraint honno wedi ei hoelio’n gadarn yng nghyhoeddiad yr Awdurdod Rheilffyrdd Strategol ddoe, mae’n dda gennym y bydd y fasnachfraint yn awr yn mynd rhagddi. Cyhoeddir enw’r cynigiwr llwyddiannus yn nes ymlaen yn y flwyddyn, a bydd y fasnachfraint yn dechrau gweithredu o ddechrau 2003. Mae cysylltu’r fasnachfraint rheilffordd â threfi sydd heb gyswllt rheilffordd yn allweddol. Bydd gennyf ddiddordeb clywed cynigion gan y gymuned leol yn Nhrefynwy ar sut y carent gysylltu â’r gwasanaeth rheilffordd agosaf.

Owen John Thomas siaradwyd yn Gymraeg t. 5

Owen John Thomas spoken in Welsh p. 5

Flwyddyn union yn ôl i heddiw, rhyddhawyd datganiad yn dangos bod 95 y cant o’r ieuenctid yng nghymuned Somali Caerdydd yn ddi-waith. Codais y pwynt hwnnw sawl gwaith yn y Siambr hon ers hynny. Beth a wnaethoch, Rhodri, i sicrhau lleihad sylweddol yn y ffigur hwn dros y flwyddyn diwethaf?

Exactly a year ago today, a statement was released showing that 95 per cent of the youth in Cardiff’s Somali community were unemployed. I have raised that point several times in this Chamber since then. What have you done, Rhodri, to ensure a significant reduction in this figure over the past year?

Rhodri Morgan Prif Weinidog Cymru siaradwyd yn Gymraeg t. 5

Rhodri Morgan The First Minister spoken in Welsh p. 5

Dyma’r tro cyntaf imi gofio i’r cwestiwn hwnnw gael ei gyfeirio ataf i. Felly, nid wyf yn ymwybodol o unrhyw waith penodol a wnaethpwyd mewn ymateb i’ch honiad. Os yw’r ffigur hwnnw’n gywir, y mae’n sgandal. Mae rhai grwpiau yn ein cymdeithas wedi’u cau allan o’r lles a’r llewyrch arferol a ddaw gyda gostyngiad mewn lefelau diweithdra. Wrth i lefelau diweithdra ostwng, bydd y fath fuddiannau yn cyrraedd y grwpiau hynny. Dyna sut i ddatrys y broblem. Weithiau, mae angen ymyrraeth arbennig ar y grwpiau hynny, i’w hyfforddi yn well neu i wella eu gallu i siarad Saesneg—beth bynnag y bo’r anawsterau wrth geisio am swyddi, rhaid eu helpu i gael gwared arnynt.

This is the first time that I recall that question being directed to me. Therefore, I am not aware of any specific work done in response to your claims. If that figure is correct, it is a scandal. Some groups in our society have been excluded from the usual benefits and prosperity that come with a reduction in unemployment levels. As unemployment levels decrease, such benefits will reach those groups. That is how the problem could be solved. Sometimes, those groups need special intervention to train them better, or improve their ability to speak English—whatever their difficulties in applying for jobs, we must help them to overcome them.

Lefelau Diweithdra yng Nghymru

Unemployment Levels in Wales

C2 Delyth Evans siaradwyd yn Gymraeg t. 5

Q2 Delyth Evans spoken in Welsh p. 5

Pa drafodaethau y mae Prif Weinidog Cymru wedi’u cael gydag Ysgrifennydd Gwladol Cymru ar lefelau diweithdra yng Nghymru? (OAQ14888)

What discussions has the First Minister had with the Secretary of State for Wales on levels of unemployment in Wales? (OAQ14888)

Rhodri Morgan Prif Weinidog Cymru siaradwyd yn Gymraeg t. 5

Rhodri Morgan The First Minister spoken in Welsh p. 5

Bu inni ystyried y mater hwn yn fanwl iawn, am ei fod yn rhan o gyfrifoldeb Ysgrifennydd Gwladol Cymru fel aelod o’r Cabinet a’r Llywodraeth, ac yn rhan o’n cyfrifoldebau datblygu economaidd ni. Dros y flwyddyn ddiwethaf—Tachwedd 2000 i 2001—gostyngodd lefelau diwethdra yng Nghymru 0.6 y cant. Fel rhan o’r patrwm hwnnw, disgynnodd lefelau diweithdra ar gyfradd uwch mewn ardaloedd lle yr oedd y lefelau ar eu huchaf, yn enwedig yn y de-orllewin—gydag ambell eithriad, a’r mwyaf oedd Ynys Môn—ac yn disgyn ar gyfradd is mewn ardaloedd lle yr oedd y lefelau diweithdra gwreiddiol yn eithaf isel, yn enwedig yn ne-ddwyrain Cymru.

We have been considering this issue in great detail, as it is part of the Secretary of State for Wales’s responsibility as a member of the Cabinet and Government, as well as part of our economic development responsibilities. Over the past year—November 2000 to 2001—unemployment levels in Wales decreased by 0.6 per cent. As part of that pattern, unemployment levels have decreased at a greater rate in areas where levels were highest, especially in south-west Wales—with the odd exception, the biggest being Anglesey—and have decreased at a lesser rate in areas where the original unemployment levels were quite low, especially in south-east Wales.

Delyth Evans siaradwyd yn Gymraeg t. 6

Delyth Evans spoken in Welsh p. 6

Pa mor bwysig yn eich barn chi yw rôl grantiau cymorth rhanbarthol dewisol yn ein hymdrechion i ddenu cwmnïau a swyddi newydd i’n hardaloedd difreintiedig? Yn y cyd-destun hwnnw, a wnewch chi ymuno â mi wrth longyfarch tref Ystradgynlais am ddenu cwmni MCS Manufacturing Limited, gyda 77 swydd newydd, i’r gymuned honno, gyda chymorth grant cymorth rhanbarthol dewisol?

How important, in your opinion, is the role of the regional selective assistance grants in our efforts to attract new companies and jobs to our deprived areas? In that context, will you join me in congratulating Ystradgynlais town on attracting the MCS Manufacturing Limited company, with 77 new jobs, to that community, with the aid of a regional selective assistance grant?

Rhodri Morgan Prif Weinidog Cymru siaradwyd yn Gymraeg t. 6

Rhodri Morgan The First Minister spoken in Welsh p. 6

Y mae’n bwysig dros ben. Dros y Nadolig y daeth y newyddion am y swyddi newydd hyn. Er bod 77 swydd ddim yn nifer enfawr yng nghyswllt lleoedd fel Llundain, Manceinion neu hyd yn oed Gaerdydd, mewn cymuned fel Ystradgynlais, sydd wedi dioddef cymaint ac sydd yn dref llai o faint, mae 77 swydd newydd o bwys mawr. Rhoddant obaith a dyfodol newydd i dref a chymuned Ystradgynlais, sydd ar ben uchaf cwm Tawe.

It is exceptionally important. The news of the new jobs came in over Christmas. Although 77 jobs is not an enormous number in the context of places such as London, Manchester or even Cardiff, in a community like Ystradgynlais, which has suffered so much and is a smaller sized town, 77 new jobs are of great importance. They give new hope and future to the town and community of Ystradgynlais at the top of the Swansea valley.

David Davies spoken in English p. 6

David Davies siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 6

First Minister, everyone sympathises with the large number of people who are out of work for genuine reasons. However, what about that minority who are out of work and are not doing anything about it, who are quite happy to sit back and claim benefit and are not taking their responsibilities to find work seriously? How can we deal with that growing minority?

Brif Weinidog, mae pawb yn cydymdeimlo â’r nifer fawr o bobl sy’n ddi-waith am resymau dilys. Fodd bynnag, beth am y lleiafrif sydd allan o waith ac nad ydynt yn gwneud dim yn ei gylch, sy’n ddigon hapus i eistedd i lawr a hawlio budd-dal ac heb gymryd eu cyfrifoldebau i ddod o hyd i waith o ddifrif? Sut y gallwn ddelio â’r lleiafrif cynyddol hwnnw?

Rhodri Morgan The First Minister spoken in English p. 6

Rhodri Morgan Prif Weinidog Cymru siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 6

A wide variety of programmes are on offer to encourage people. They are particularly devoted to those aged over 50 and those aged under 25. In general that is where the problems tend to be. Unemployment does not seem to occur as often among people aged between 25 and 50. There are programmes to encourage people in those two categories where long-term unemployment and dependency on benefit tend to become ingrained. There are active programmes to break through that pattern. As you will know, David, the Department for Work and Pensions is responsible for those programmes, not the Assembly.

Mae amrywiaeth eang o raglenni ar gael i annog pobl. Maent wedi eu hanelu’n arbennig at bobl dros 50 oed a dan 25 oed. Yn gyffredinol, dyna lle mae’r problemau yn tueddu bod. Nid yw diweithdra yn ymddangos fel pe bai’n digwydd mor aml ymysg pobl rhwng 25 a 50 oed. Mae yna raglenni i annog pobl yn y ddau gategori hwn lle mae diweithdra tymor hir a dibyniaeth ar fudd-dal yn tueddu i fod yn annatod. Mae rhaglenni gweithredol ar gael i dorri’r patrwm hwnnw. Fel y gwyddoch, David, yr Adran dros Waith a Phensiynau sy’n gyfrifol am y rhaglenni hynny, nid y Cynulliad.

Gareth Jones siaradwyd yn Gymraeg t. 6

Gareth Jones spoken in Welsh p. 6

Fe’ch atgoffaf fod diweithdra ar gynnydd mewn rhai ardaloedd ac, fel y Gweinidog gyda chyfrifoldeb dros ddatblygu economaidd a thros ogledd Cymru, fe wyddoch am y pryderon ynghylch colli swyddi yn Nolgarrog, Penmaen-mawr a Chyffordd Llandudno. Pa bryd a gewch yr amser i ymweld â swyddogion ac aelodau cabinet Cyngor Bwrdeistref Sirol Conwy i drafod y sefyllfa argyfyngus hon a chyflwyno strategaeth economaidd a chymdeithasol amgen i baratoi’r gweithwyr a’u teuluoedd am y gwaethaf, pe digwyddai, ac i’w cynnal i’r dyfodol?

I remind you that unemployment is on the increase in some areas and, as the Minister with responsibility for economic development and for north Wales, you will know of the concerns about job losses in Dolgarrog, Penmaen-mawr and Llandudno Junction. When will you find time to visit the officials and cabinet members of Conwy County Borough Council to discuss this critical situation and introduce a contingency economic and social strategy to prepare workers and their families for the worst, if it comes to that, and to support them in the future?

Rhodri Morgan Prif Weinidog Cymru siaradwyd yn Gymraeg t. 7

Rhodri Morgan The First Minister spoken in Welsh p. 7

Nid wyf yn siŵr at le yr ydych yn cyfeirio wrth ddweud bod diweithdra yn cynyddu mewn rhai cymunedau, oherwydd nid ydym yn ymwybodol o ddiweithdra yn cynyddu mewn unrhyw gymunedau. Dyna un o’r mythau y mae rhai Aelodau o Blaid Cymru yn eu creu ac nad yw’r ffigurau’n eu cyfiawnhau. Yr oeddwn yn gobeithio ymweld â Dolgarrog yr wythnos nesaf ond, yn anffodus, dywedodd y cwmni nad oedd pwynt gan nad oedd y prif swyddog perthnasol yn gallu bod yn bresennol ar y dyddiad hwnnw. Byddaf yn gwneud ymdrech arall i ymweld yn fuan a byddaf yn sicrhau bod y swyddogion perthnasol ar gael.

I am not sure to where you refer when you say that unemployment is increasing in some communities, because we are not aware of unemployment increasing in any communities. That is one of the myths that some Members of Plaid Cymru perpetuate which the figures do not bear out. I had hoped to visit Dolgarrog next week but, unfortunately, the company said that there was no point as the relevant chief officer could not be present on that date. I will make another effort to visit soon and I will ensure that the relevant officers are available.

Ymchwilio i’r Ffrwydriad yng Ngwaith Dur Margam

Investigating the Explosion at Margam Steelworks

Q3 Janet Davies spoken in English p. 7

C3 Janet Davies siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 7

What recent discussions has the First Minister had with the Health and Safety Executive and the South Wales Police Authority concerning the investigation into the explosion at the Margam steelworks in November 2001? (OAQ14879)

Pa drafodaethau y mae Prif Weinidog Cymru wedi’u cael yn ddiweddar gyda’r Awdurdod Gweithredol Iechyd a Diogelwch a chydag Awdurdod Heddlu De Cymru ynghylch yr ymchwiliad i’r ffrwydriad yng ngwaith dur Margam ym mis Tachwedd 2001? (OAQ14879)

Rhodri Morgan The First Minister spoken in English p. 7

Rhodri Morgan Prif Weinidog Cymru siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 7

I continue to remain in close touch with developments relating to the investigations into the cause of the explosion three months ago. The police-led inquiry has been waiting for some time to examine the wreckage of the furnace. I understand that the quenching has now been successfully achieved by Corus and that it is able to gain access to the centre of the wreckage, which means that the police and Health and Safety Executive can make a start on the investigation. All relevant Assembly Government documents have been disclosed to the police to encourage them to proceed to a conclusion as quickly as possible.

Parhaf i fod mewn cyswllt agos gyda’r datblygiadau sy’n ymwneud â’r ymchwiliadau i achos y ffrwydrad dri mis yn ôl. Bu’r ymchwiliad, dan arweiniad yr heddlu, yn disgwyl am beth amser i archwilio malurion y ffwrnais. Deallaf fod y gwaith o ladd y tân a’r gwres bellach wedi cael ei gwblhau’n llwyddiannus gan Corus a’i fod yn gallu mynd i ganol y malurion, sy’n golygu y gall yr heddlu a’r Awdurdod Gweithredol Iechyd a Diogelwch ddechrau ar yr ymchwiliad. Mae holl ddogfennau perthnasol Llywodraeth y Cynulliad wedi’u datgelu i’r heddlu i’w hannog i fynd yn eu blaen cyn gynted â phosibl.

Janet Davies spoken in English p. 8

Janet Davies siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 8

Bearing in mind recent press reports regarding safety procedures at the plant, are you satisfied with health and safety actions there in recent years?

O gofio adroddiadau diweddar yn y wasg ynghylch gweithdrefnau diogelwch yn y gwaith, a ydych yn fodlon gyda’r camau iechyd a diogelwch yno yn ystod y blynyddoedd diwethaf?

Rhodri Morgan The First Minister spoken in English p. 8

Rhodri Morgan Prif Weinidog Cymru siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 8

I do not think that I am in a position to comment on that because I am not familiar with the press reports that you mention. I understand that you had an extremely fruitful meeting with the Corus management. I do not know whether you had the opportunity to put any concerns to it. I understand that you met with Corus and that you were reasonably satisfied with the responses that you received and that you wrote to thank the management for a fruitful meeting. I am not familiar with what you say.

Ni chredaf fy mod mewn sefyllfa i wneud sylwadau ar hynny gan nad wyf yn gyfarwydd â’r adroddiadau y cyfeiriwch atynt. Deallaf ichi gael cyfarfod buddiol iawn gyda rheolwyr Corus. Ni wn a gawsoch gyfle i gyfleu rhai o’ch pryderon iddynt. Deallaf ichi gwrdd â Corus a’ch bod yn gymharol fodlon â’r ymatebion a gawsoch ac ichi ysgrifennu i ddiolch i’r rheolwyr am gyfarfod buddiol. Nid wyf yn gyfarwydd â’r hyn a ddywedwch.

Health and safety at work matters are not devolved to the Assembly. They are set out clearly as the responsibility of the Health and Safety Executive. By world standards, the UK Health and Safety Executive is regarded as an outstandingly highly professional, technically omnicompetent body. Far be it from me, as a person with no qualifications in metallurgy or health and safety at work, to offer an opinion on such an issue.

Nid yw materion iechyd a diogelwch yn y gwaith wedi eu datganoli i’r Cynulliad. Fe’u nodir yn glir fel cyfrifoldeb yr Awdurdod Gweithredol Iechyd a Diogelwch. O gymharu â safonau ar draws y byd, ystyrir Awdurdod Gweithredol Iechyd a Diogelwch y DU yn gorff neilltuol o broffesiynol ac yn gwbl alluog yn dechnegol. Na foed i mi feiddio, fel person heb unrhyw gymwysterau mewn metaleg na iechyd a diogelwch yn y gwaith, gynnig barn ar fater o’r fath.

Alun Cairns spoken in English p. 8

Alun Cairns siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 8

What action are you taking to encourage the free flow of information, not only towards the statutory and legal bodies, but also from the workers, who may not feel confident enough to put their names behind issues but potentially have legitimate issues to raise?

Pa gamau a gymerwch i annog llif agored gwybodaeth, nid yn unig tuag at y cyrff statudol a chyfreithiol, ond hefyd gan y gweithwyr, sydd efallai heb deimlo’n ddigon hyderus i roi eu henwau wrth bynciau ond sydd o bosibl â phynciau dilys i’w codi?

Rhodri Morgan The First Minister spoken in English p. 8

Rhodri Morgan Prif Weinidog Cymru siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 8

I can only repeat what I said earlier, that all our documents have been disclosed to the police. I am not sure what other documents there would be. It would be astonishing if, in the course of the police and Health and Safety Executive inquiry, anybody in the Port Talbot area or among Corus employees felt inhibited, in any way, from passing information to the inquiry. If you have any evidence of that, then please pass it on to us; do not float and trail these allegations back and forth as you have done persistently ever since the explosion occurred.

Ni allaf ond ailadrodd yr hyn a ddywedais yn gynharach, sef bod ein holl ddogfennau wedi’u datgelu i’r heddlu. Nid wyf yn siŵr pa ddogfennau eraill a allai fod. Byddai’n syndod, yng nghwrs ymchwiliad yr heddlu a’r Awdurdod Gweithredol Iechyd a Diogelwch, pe teimlai unrhyw un o ardal Port Talbot, neu o blith gweithwyr Corus, eu bod mewn unrhyw ffordd yn ofni trosglwyddo gwybodaeth i’r ymchwiliad. Os oes gennych unrhyw dystiolaeth o hynny, yna trosglwyddwch ef i ni; peidiwch â sôn a siarad am y cyhuddiadau hyn byth a hefyd, fel y gwnaethoch yn ddiatal ers i’r ffrwydrad ddigwydd.

Brian Gibbons spoken in English p. 9

Brian Gibbons siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 9

I think that what Alun Cairns and, to a certain extent, Janet Davies are saying casts serious aspersions on the Port Talbot steelworks workforce. If Alun or Janet have issues of sufficient concern, they should be willing to take this matter up themselves as a conduit. However, at present, this is not helping, but adding to the great distress felt by many people as a result of the incident in Port Talbot.

Credaf fod yr hyn y mae Alun Cairns ac, i ryw raddau, Janet Davies, yn ei ddweud yn bwrw amheuon difrifol ar weithlu gwaith dur Port Talbot. Os oes gan Alun neu Janet faterion sy’n achosi pryder, dylent fod yn fodlon codi’r mater hwn eu hunain. Fodd bynnag, ar hyn o bryd, nid yw hyn yn helpu, ond yn ychwanegu at y gofid mawr a deimlir gan nifer o bobl o ganlyniad i’r digwyddiad ym Mhort Talbot.

Rhodri Morgan The First Minister spoken in English p. 9

Rhodri Morgan Prif Weinidog Cymru siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 9

I agree with that, Brian. There are three key issues before us. The first is the speedy recovery of the seriously injured from the ghastly medical, physical and psychological effects of the accident. Although a third person died in hospital shortly after the accident, the five others who were in intensive care have made miraculous recoveries, and all, I understand, are now walking. I must give credit to them and to their families, who gave them tender loving care. I also give credit to the burns and plastic surgery unit at Morriston Hospital which provided outstandingly good care.

Cytunaf â hynny, Brian. Mae tri mater allweddol o’n blaen. Y cyntaf yw adferiad buan y rhai a anafwyd yn ddifrifol o effeithiau meddygol, corfforol a seicolegol erchyll y ddamwain. Er i drydydd person farw yn yr ysbyty yn fuan wedi’r ddamwain, mae’r pump arall a oedd yn yr uned gofal dwys wedi gwneud adferiad gwyrthiol, a deallaf fod pob un bellach yn cerdded. Rhaid imi roi clod iddynt hwy ac i’w teuluoedd, a roddodd ofal tyner a chariadus iddynt. Hefyd canmolaf yr uned llosgiadau a llawfeddygaeth gosmetig yn Ysbyty Treforys a ddarparodd ofal rhagorol.

The second issue is that of the police and Health and Safety Executive inquiry into the cause of the explosion proceeding to a proper conclusion, and we can have every faith that nothing will stand in the way of that. The third issue is the future of the iron supply to the finishing end at Port Talbot. As a result of the taking out of one of the two blast furnaces, there is not so much iron available, and Corus is importing slab to make that good. We want to know from Corus, as soon as possible, when the capacity of that blast furnace which is lost—at least temporarily—will be replaced. I will be able to raise that matter with Tony Pedder, the chief executive of Corus, when I meet him later this month.

Yr ail fater yw dwyn ymchwiliad yr heddlu a’r Awdurdod Gweithredol Iechyd a Diogelwch i achos y ffrwydrad i ddiweddglo priodol, a gallwn fod yn hyderus na fydd dim yn rhwystro hynny rhag digwydd. Y trydydd mater yw dyfodol y cyflenwad haearn i’r ochr derfynu ym Mhort Talbot. O ganlyniad i ddadgomisiynu un o’r ddwy ffwrnais chwyth, nid oes llawer o haearn ar gael, ac mae Corus yn mewnforio slab i wneud iawn am hynny. Yr ydym am gael gwybod gan Corus, cyn gynted â phosibl, pryd y bydd capasiti’r ffwrnais a gollwyd—o leiaf dros dro—yn cael eu hailosod. Byddaf yn gallu codi’r mater hwn gyda Tony Pedder, Prif Weithredwt Corus, pan fyddaf yn cwrdd ag ef yn ddiweddarach y mis hwn.

Effaith yr Ewro ar Gymru

The Impact of the Euro on Wales

Q4 Peter Black spoken in English p. 9

C4 Peter Black siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 9

What discussions has the First Minister had with the Secretary of State for Wales about the impact of the euro on Wales? (OAQ14889)

Pa drafodaethau y mae Prif Weinidog Cymru wedi’u cael gydag Ysgrifennydd Gwladol Cymru am effaith yr ewro ar Gymru? (OAQ14889)

Rhodri Morgan The First Minister spoken in English p. 9

Rhodri Morgan Prif Weinidog Cymru siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 9

This often comes up in my weekly discussions with the Secretary of State, and sometimes in our more frequent, irregular and occasional discussions. We would both agree that there is less of a Little-Englander problem in Wales in terms of the feeling towards the euro. None of us can foretell exactly how this will pan out, but it is one of the biggest issues facing Britain over the next five to 10 years.

Cyfyd hyn yn aml yn fy nhrafodaethau wythnosol gyda’r Ysgrifennydd Gwladol, ac weithiau yn ein trafodaethau amlach, afreolaidd ac achlysurol. Byddem ein dau’n cytuno bod yna lai o broblem y pleidiwr Lloegr Fach yng Nghymru o ran y teimlad tuag at yr ewro. Ni all yr un ohonom ddweud yn union beth a ddaw o hyn, ond mae’n un o’r materion mwyaf sy’n wynebu Prydain dros y pum neu 10 mlynedd nesaf.

Peter Black spoken in English p. 10

Peter Black siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 10

In light of the favourable opinion poll that came so soon after my colleague Mick Bates’s short debate, will you join with Labour backbenchers in pressing the Prime Minister to hold a referendum as early as possible, preferably by the autumn, and certainly not on the same date as the National Assembly elections?

Yng ngoleuni’r arolwg barn ffafriol a ddaeth mor fuan ar ôl dadl fer fy nghyd-Aelod Mick Bates, a wnewch chi ymuno ag Aelodau Seneddol Llafur y meinciau cefn i bwyso ar y Prif Weinidog i gynnal refferendwm cyn gynted â phosibl, erbyn yr hydref os oes modd, ac yn sicr nid ar yr un dyddiad ag etholiadau’r Cynulliad Cenedlaethol?

Rhodri Morgan The First Minister spoken in English p. 10

Rhodri Morgan Prif Weinidog Cymru siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 10

There is a Latin phrase ‘post hoc ergo procter hoc’, but there was not necessarily a connection between Mick Bates’s short debate—outstanding though that was—and the outcome of the opinion poll. However, it was interesting to see that. I do not know if the opinion poll will have a bearing on this matter, which is plainly not devolved to us, but in which we have an interest. This is a matter for the Prime Minister and the Cabinet in Westminster, and they will make their decisions according to the five economic tests, and other matters relating to the technicalities of the election date.

Mae ymadrodd Lladin ‘post hoc ergo procter hoc’, ond nid oedd cysylltiad o angenrheidrwydd rhwng dadl fer Mick Bates—er mor ardderchog oedd honno—â chanlyniad yr arolwg barn. Fodd bynnag, yr oedd yn ddiddorol gweld hynny. Ni wn a gaiff yr arolwg barn ddylanwad ar y mater hwn, sydd yn amlwg heb ei ddatganoli inni, ond y mae gennym ddiddordeb ynddo. Mater yw hwn i’r Prif Weinidog a’r Cabinet yn San Steffan, a byddant yn gwneud eu penderfyniadau yn unol â’r pum prawf economaidd, a materion eraill sy’n ymwneud â manylion dyddiad yr etholiad.

Jonathan Morgan spoken in English p. 10

Jonathan Morgan siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 10

The opinion poll published this week is somewhat contradictory to the opinion polls published in recent years about the introduction of the euro, which clearly demonstrate that an overwhelming majority of the British electorate do not want to see the euro introduced in this country. Given that, according to this week’s opinion poll, a significant proportion of Labour and Liberal Democrat voters are also concerned about the euro, does the Government recognise these concerns? Those people are worried about the considerable loss of political sovereignty that will be incurred as a result of the introduction of the euro in this country.

Mae’r arolwg barn a gyhoeddwyd yr wythnos hon yn croesddweud, i raddau, yr arolygon barn a gyhoeddwyd yn ystod y blynyddoedd diwethaf ynglŷn â chyflwyno’r ewro, sy’n dangos yn glir nad yw mwyafrif llethol etholwyr Prydain am weld yr ewro yn cael ei chyflwyno i’r wlad hon. O gofio, yn ôl arolwg barn yr wythnos hon, fod nifer arwyddocaol o bleidleiswyr Llafur a’r Democratiaid Rhyddfrydol hefyd yn pryderu ynghylch yr ewro, a yw’r Llywodraeth yn cydnabod y pryderon hyn? Mae’r bobl hynny yn pryderu am y sofraniaeth wleidyddol sylweddol a gollir o ganlyniad i gyflwyno’r ewro yn y wlad hon.

Rhodri Morgan The First Minister spoken in English p. 10

Rhodri Morgan Prif Weinidog Cymru siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 10

Thank you, Jonathan, for attempting to disprove what I said about there being less of a Little-Englander feeling in Wales. We do not know whether or not these opinion polls are formed on the same basis, and therefore whether or not they are comparable with each other and display a trend. Before the launch of the euro coins and notes on 1 January, there was a great deal of fear. As the euro was not yet here, it was only theoretical, and therefore you could pretend that it was never going to happen. However, post 1 January, now that people have seen so much publicity about the euro’s existence and they have seen the coins and notes—at least on television if they have not had friends who have returned from holidays and shown them euro notes or coins—it is now a fact that we must clock. The only remaining question is not whether the euro should exist but whether Britain will join. However, I do not know which way public opinion will go over the next 12 to 18 months.

Diolch, Jonathan, am geisio gwrthbrofi yr hyn a ddywedais fod llai o deimlad pleidiwr Lloegr Fach yng Nghymru. Ni wyddom a yw’r arolygon barn hyn, yn cael eu paratoi ar yr un sail, ai peidio, ac felly pa un a ydynt i’w cymharu â’i gilydd ac yn dangos tuedd. Cyn lansio arian yr ewro ar 1 Ionawr, yr oedd cryn dipyn o ofn. Gan nad oedd yr ewro yma, peth theoretig ydoedd, a gallech felly esgus nad oedd yn mynd i ddigwydd o gwbl. Fodd bynnag, wedi 1 Ionawr, gan fod pobl bellach wedi gweld llawer o gyhoeddusrwydd ynglŷn â bodolaeth yr ewro ynghyd â gweld yr arian parod—o leiaf ar y teledu, os nad oes ganddynt ffrindiau a ddychwelodd o’u gwyliau ac a ddangosodd yr arian parod iddynt—mae’r ewro bellach yn ffaith y mae’n rhaid inni ei nodi. Yr unig gwestiwn a erys yw, nid a ddylid cael ewro, ond a fydd Prydain yn ymuno â hi. Fodd bynnag, ni wn i ba gyfeiriad yr aiff y farn gyhoeddus dros y 12 i 18 mis nesaf.

Alun Pugh spoken in English p. 11

Alun Pugh siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 11

Do you think that businesses in Wales would do well to follow the example of the Welsh Mountain Zoo at Colwyn Bay and offer customers the choice of paying in euros or sterling?

A ydych o’r farn y byddai’n werth i fusnesau yng Nghymru ddilyn esiampl Sŵ Mynydd Cymru ym Mae Colwyn a chynnig y dewis i’r cwsmeriaid dalu mewn ewros neu sterling?

Rhodri Morgan The First Minister spoken in English p. 11

Rhodri Morgan Prif Weinidog Cymru siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 11

I was not aware of that. However, I saw a feature on Mr Howard Lewis, a businessman with gift shops in the Tenby area, who decided to have his tills converted to joint euro and pounds sterling operation because so many of his customers are Irish or continental. However, his bank then charged him an extortionate fee for converting the euros into pounds sterling. I regret the fact that the big high street banks are not being more flexible. Perhaps they do not see the long-term potential of encouraging businesses to trade in both currencies, rather than making it extortionately difficult for them to do so. However, Mr Lewis, with the wisdom of a Pembrokeshire businessman, switched to another bank to get a better deal, which is typical of the people of Pembrokeshire. That was commendable in the circumstances.

Nid oeddwn yn ymwybodol o hynny. Fodd bynnag, gwelais eitem ar Mr Howard Lewis, dyn busnes â siopau anrhegion yn ardal Dinbych y Pysgod, a benderfynodd newid ei diliau i weithredu mewn ewros a phunnoedd ar y cyd gan fod cynifer o’i gwsmeriaid yn Wyddelod neu’n dod o’r cyfandir. Fodd bynnag, cododd ei fanc ffi afresymol arno am drosglwyddo’r ewros yn bunnoedd. Gresynaf nad yw banciau’r stryd fawr yn fwy hyblyg. Hwyrach nad ydynt yn gweld y potensial tymor hir o annog busnesau i fasnachu yn y ddau arian, yn hytrach na’i gwneud yn afresymol o anodd iddynt wneud hynny. Serch hynny, gyda doethineb dyn busnes o Sir Benfro, trosglwyddodd Mr Lewis at fanc arall i gael gwell bargen, sy’n nodweddiadol o bobl Sir Benfro. Yr oedd hynny i’w ganmol o dan yr amgylchiadau.

Janet Davies spoken in English p. 11

Janet Davies siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 11

Steelworks are experiencing difficulties in trading while we are outside the eurozone. Will you therefore give a commitment to safeguarding steelwork communities or to working for safeguards, to lobby for them during negotiations to enter the eurozone?

Mae gweithfeydd dur yn cael anawsterau wrth fasnachu gan ein bod y tu allan i ardal yr ewro. A wnewch chi felly roi ymrwymiad i ddiogelu cymunedau dur neu i weithio i gael camau diogelu, i lobïo drostynt yn ystod negodiadau i ymuno ag ardal yr ewro.

Rhodri Morgan The First Minister spoken in English p. 12

Rhodri Morgan Prif Weinidog Cymru siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 12

We will safeguard the interests of steel-making communities, as others. Steelmaking is among the industries worst affected by being outside the euro. That is, those who export large volumes of basic commodities, such as steel or tinplate, across the eurozone/sterling boundary during periods when sterling is strong and the euro is weak, as it is and has been almost since the launch date. That feeds straight through into the bottom line and, as in current circumstances, can burst the bottom line into oceans of red ink. That was among the major problems that Corus faced. I do not doubt that other steel companies in Wales, such as Allied Steel and Wire just over the road from here, would face the same problems. It is difficult to make a profit exporting large quantities of basic commodity materials across that boundary given the present exchange rate. Therefore, over the next 12 months, there will be a shift in public opinion and there may be a shift in the exchange rate. Finally, there is the issue of the resolution of the economic tests and other factors required to set a date for the referendum during the term of this Parliament.

Byddwn yn diogelu buddiannau’r cymunedau dur, fel eraill. Mae cynhyrchu dur ymhlith y diwydiannau sy’n dioddef waethaf drwy fod y tu allan i’r ewro. Hynny yw, mae’r rhai hynny sy’n allforio symiau mawr o nwyddau sylfaenol, megis dur neu dunplat, ar draws ffiniau ardal yr ewro/sterling ar gyfnodau pan fo sterling yn gryf a’r ewro yn wan, fel y mae ac fel y bu bron ers y dyddiad lansio. Mae hynny’n bwydo yn union i mewn i’r llinell waelod a gall, fel yn yr amgylchiadau presennol, dorri drwy’r llinell waelod yn foroedd o inc coch. Dyna oedd un o’r prif broblemau a wynebai Corus. Nid wyf yn amau y byddai cwmnïau dur eraill yng Nghymru, megis Allied Steel and Wire ar draws y ffordd o’r fan hon, yn wynebu’r un problemau. Mae’n anodd gwneud elw wrth allforio symiau mawr o ddeunyddiau nwyddau sylfaenol ar draws y ffin honno o gofio’r gyfradd gyfnewid bresennol. Felly, dros y 12 mis nesaf, bydd symudiad yn y farn gyhoeddus ac efallai y bydd symudiad yn y gyfradd gyfnewid. Yn olaf, mae angen datrys y profion economaidd a’r ffactorau eraill sy’n ofynnol er mwyn gosod dyddiad ar gyfer y refferendwm yn ystod tymor y Senedd hon.

John Griffiths spoken in English p. 12

John Griffiths siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 12

Do you agree that we need a hard-headed economic assessment regarding the timing of the referendum, but that this is also partly and inevitably a political question? It is important that the UK is not left behind within the European Union in terms of gaining influence and power, as unfortunately has been the case in the past.

A gytunwch fod arnom angen asesiad economaidd realistig ynglŷn ag amseru’r refferendwm, ond bod hwn hefyd yn rhannol ac yn anorfod yn gwestiwn gwleidyddol? Mae’n bwysig nad yw’r DU yn cael ei gadael ar ôl o fewn yr Undeb Ewropeaidd o ran ennill dylanwad a phŵer, fel ag y digwyddodd yn y gorffennol, yn anffodus.

Rhodri Morgan The First Minister spoken in English p. 12

Rhodri Morgan Prif Weinidog Cymru siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 12

That is another problem. At Maastricht 10 years ago, John Major’s Government effectively opted out of the social contract and of discussions relating to the euro. It was much easier for the incoming Labour Government in 1997 to put right the opting out from the social contract, which it did quickly, than it was to get back into discussions on the euro. That is because of the lengthy legislative procedures required at UK Parliament level to take account of the other omission from the Maastricht treaty, when Britain got the two so-called opt outs.

Mae honno’n broblem arall. Ym Maastricht 10 mlynedd yn ôl, eithriodd Llywodraeth John Major i bob pwrpas o’r cytundeb cymdeithasol ac o drafodaethau yn ymwneud â’r ewro. Yr oedd yn llawer haws i’r Llywodraeth Lafur a ddaeth i mewn ym 1997 gywiro’r eithrio o’r cytundeb cymdeithasol, a wnaeth yn gyflym, nag i ddychwelyd i drafodaethau ar yr ewro. Yr oedd hynny oherwydd y gweithdrefnau deddfwriaethol maith yr oedd eu hangen ar lefel Senedd y DU i ystyried y peth arall a adawyd allan o gytundeb Maastricht, pan gafodd Prydain yr hyn a alwyd yn ddau eithriad

It is not for the British Government just to decide, ‘We now feel like joining. We have had support from a referendum, a vote in Parliament and the five economic tests.’ By the time we might feel like joining, the others might say, ‘We do not feel like having you now,’ as happened in terms of Britain’s entry into the original common market in the late 1950s and early 1960s.

Nid Llywodraeth Prydain yn unig sy’n gorfod penderfynu, ‘Yr ydym yn teimlo fel ymuno yn awr. Cawsom gefnogaeth gan refferendwm, pleidlais yn y Senedd, a’r pum prawf economaidd.’ Erbyn inni deimlo fel ymuno, gallai’r lleill ddweud, ‘Nid ydym ni’n teimlo fel eich derbyn yn awr,’ fel y digwyddodd o ran mynediad Prydain i’r farchnad gyffredin wreiddiol ar ddiwedd y 1950au a dechrau’r 1960au.

Peter Law spoken in English p. 13

Peter Law siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 13

Will you join me in condemning the leader of the Liberal Democrats, who, in early January, cavorted around my constituency and others trying to spend euros? He embarrassed tradespeople who were doing an excellent job in those communities. It was a cheap political stunt and he failed to recognise the local priorities, namely the closure of the steelworks and the highest unemployment and worst health statistics in Wales. That underlines the Liberal Democrats’ priorities.

A ymunwch chi â mi i gondemnio arweinydd y Democratiaid Rhyddfrydol, a fu, ar ddechrau mis Ionawr, yn prancio o amgylch fy etholaeth ac eraill yn ceisio gwario ewros? Achosodd embaras i bobl fusnes a oedd yn gwneud gwaith rhagorol yn y cymunedau hynny. Sioe wleidyddol ddi-chwaeth ydoedd a methodd â chydnabod y blaenoriaethau lleol, sef cau’r gwaith dur a’r ystadegau diweithdra uchaf a’r ystadegau iechyd gwaethaf yng Nghymru. Tanlinella hyn flaenoriaethau’r Democratiaid Rhyddfrydol.

Rhodri Morgan The First Minister spoken in English p. 13

Rhodri Morgan Prif Weinidog Cymru siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 13

I trust that your remarks do not relate to the leader of the Welsh Liberal Democrat group doing anything unlawful, but to him exercising his right as a regional list Assembly Member. As far as I know, such Members are entitled to buy products with legal tender anywhere they like, whether in their own regional constituencies or anywhere else in Wales.

Hyderaf nad yw eich sylwadau yn ymwneud ag arweinydd grŵp Democratiaid Rhyddfrydol Cymru yn gwneud unrhyw beth anghyfreithlon, ond ei fod yn ymarfer ei hawl fel Aelod Cynulliad ar y rhestr ranbarthol. Hyd y gwn i, mae gan Aelodau o’r fath yr hawl i brynu cynhyrchion gydag arian cyfreithlon unrhyw le a fynnant, boed hynny yn eu hetholaethau rhanbarthol eu hunain neu unrhyw le arall yng Nghymru.

Pwysigrwydd Cynhwysiant Cymdeithasol

The Importance of Social Inclusion

Q5 Helen Mary Jones spoken in English p. 13

C5 Helen Mary Jones siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 13

Will the First Minister make a statement on the development and co-ordinating of policies to promote the importance of social inclusion? (OAQ14876)

A wnaiff Prif Weinidog Cymru ddatganiad am ddatblygu a chydgysylltu polisïau i hyrwyddo pwysigrwydd cynhwysiant cymdeithasol? (OAQ14876)

Rhodri Morgan The First Minister spoken in English p. 13

Rhodri Morgan Prif Weinidog Cymru siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 13

A socially-inclusive and community-based Wales is what we are about. That essential unity in Llanelli between the town, the rugby club, the team and the community, working together, gave the Scarlets their famous victory over Leicester on Saturday. Long may they continue to work together.

Cymru gynhwysol gymdeithasol ac yn seiliedig ar y gymuned yw ein nod yn ei hanfod. Yr unoliaeth hanfodol hwnnw yn Llanelli rhwng y dref, y clwb rygbi, y tîm a’r gymuned, yn gweithio gyda’i gilydd a roddodd y fuddugoliaeth nodedig honno dros Gaerlŷr i’r Scarlets ddydd Sadwrn. Boed iddynt barhau i weithio gyda’i gilydd.

As long as we can agree that we must combat poverty and find non-stigmatising ways of combating poverty and spreading prosperity, we can produce the healthier and wealthier Wales that we seek.

Cyhyd ag y gallwn gytuno bod rhaid inni fynd i’r afael â thlodi a dod o hyd i ffyrdd heb stigma i fynd i’r afael â thlodi ac ymestyn ffyniant, gallwn greu’r Gymru iachach a chyfoethocach a geisiwn.

Helen Mary Jones spoken in English p. 14

Helen Mary Jones siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 14

With reference to co-ordinating such policies with Westminster, do you share my concern that the Assembly’s agreed aim of using improved public transport to promote social inclusion will be totally undermined by the dismal lack of vision for Wales in the Strategic Rail Authority’s 10-year plan which was published yesterday?

O ran cydlynu polisïau o’r fath gyda San Steffan, a rannwch fy ngofid y bydd amcan cytûn y Cynulliad o ddefnyddio gwell trafnidiaeth gyhoeddus i hyrwyddo cynhwysiant cymdeithasol, yn cael ei danseilio’n llwyr gan y diffyg gweledigaeth echrydus ar gyfer Cymru yng nghynllun 10 mlynedd yr Awdurdod Rheilffyrdd Strategol a gyhoeddwyd ddoe?

Rhodri Morgan The First Minister spoken in English p. 14

Rhodri Morgan Prif Weinidog Cymru siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 14

That phrase ‘lack of vision’ is interesting. It is both fair and unfair at the same time. The SRA would happily accept that the whole basis of that 10-year strategy is not about vision but about consolidation and providing a reliable, speedy railway service, but without fanciful ideas that probably cannot be delivered. With the exception of the channel tunnel rail link, it is not about creating new capacity, but about consolidating, stabilising and creating an effective, reliable, speedy and affordable railway service for the whole of Britain.

Mae’r ymadrodd ‘diffyg gweledigaeth’ yn ddiddorol. Mae’n deg ac annheg ar yr un pryd. Gallai’r Awdurdod dderbyn yn llawen nad gweledigaeth yw sylfaen y strategaeth 10 mlynedd honno ond ynglŷn ag atgyfnerthu a darparu gwasanaeth rheilffordd dibynadwy a chyflym, heb syniadau ffansi nad ellir eu cyflawni fwy na thebyg. Heblaw am gyswllt rheilffordd twnnel y sianel, nid yw’n ymwneud â chreu capasiti newydd, ond ag atgyfnerthu, sefydlogi a chreu gwasanaeth rheilffordd effeithiol, dibynadwy, cyflym a fforddiadwy i Brydain gyfan.

Eleanor Burnham spoken in English p. 14

Eleanor Burnham siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 14

Have all local education authorities in north Wales taken the disaffected youth access scheme—formally known as Compact Plus—forward since they were transferred from CELTEC?

A yw pob awdurdod addysg lleol yn y gogledd wedi hyrwyddo’r cynllun mynediad i ieuenctid sydd wedi ymddieithrio—a adwaenir yn ffurfiol fel Compact Plus—ers iddynt gael eu trosglwyddo o CELTEC?

Rhodri Morgan The First Minister spoken in English p. 14

Rhodri Morgan Prif Weinidog Cymru siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 14

I am not aware of the problem. I would be grateful if you would write to me with more details of the problem. Perhaps I will able to respond. Clearly, as we change from the five training and enterprise councils to the new system, Education and Learning Wales, not every project will proceed as previously. You cannot have all-winners, all-continuity and all-new initiatives from ELWa on top of that. I am not aware that a project has fallen out but it is likely that some will fall, such as the one you are referring to. Perhaps you could put the issue to me in writing. I can then raise the issue with Enid Rowlands, the Chair of ELWa, and Jane Davidson, the Minister for Education and Lifelong Learning.

Nid wyf yn ymwybodol o’r broblem. Byddwn yn ddiolchgar pe baech yn ysgrifennu ataf gyda rhagor o fanylion am y broblem. Efallai y gallaf ymateb. Mae’n eglur, wrth inni drosglwyddo o’r pum cyngor menter a hyfforddiant i’r gyfundrefn newydd, Dysgu ac Addysgu Cymru, na fydd pob prosiect yn datblygu fel y gwnaeth yn flaenorol. Ni allwch gael mentrau sy’n enillwyr bob tro, yn barhaus o hyd, ac yn hollol newydd gan ELWa ar ben hynny. Nid wyf yn ymwybodol fod prosiect wedi methu, ond mae’n debyg y bydd rhai yn gwneud, fel yr un y cyfeiriwch ato. Efallai y gallech gyflwyno’r mater mewn llythyr ataf. Yna gallaf godi’r mater gydag Enid Rowlands Cadeirydd ELWa, a Jane Davidson, y Gweinidog dros Addysg a Dysgu Gydol Oes.

Peter Rogers spoken in English p. 15

Peter Rogers siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 15

How can social inclusion be promoted when a Caernarfon constituent, who wrote a letter to the local paper criticising the group Cymuned, woke at the weekend to find his property damaged and offensive anti-English graffiti on his property? Do you agree that this aggressive cultural chauvinism must stop and that those who spread it must think carefully about the consequences of their words in those communities?

Sut y gall cynhwysiant cymdeithasol gael ei hyrwyddo pan ddeffrodd etholwr o Gaernarfon, a ysgrifennodd lythyr i bapur lleol yn beirniadu grŵp Cymuned, ar y penwythnos i weld bod ei eiddo wedi cael ei ddifrodi a graffiti gwrth-Seisnig cywilyddus ar ei eiddo? A gytunwch fod yn rhaid i’r diwylliant ymosodol hwn ddod i ben a bod yn rhaid i’r rhai sy’n ei daenu feddwl yn ofalus am ganlyniadau eu geiriau yn y cymunedau hynny?

Rhodri Morgan The First Minister spoken in English p. 15

Rhodri Morgan Prif Weinidog Cymru siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 15

I entirely agree. If that happened, I find that behaviour repellent.

Cytunaf yn llwyr. Os digwyddodd hynny, caf yr ymddygiad hwnnw’n atgas.

Blaenoriaethau’r Cynulliad Cenedlaethol

The National Assembly’s Priorities

C6 Cynog Dafis siaradwyd yn Gymraeg t. 15

Q6 Cynog Dafis spoken in Welsh p. 15

A wnaiff Prif Weinidog Cymru ddatganiad am flaenoriaethau Cynulliad Cenedlaethol Cymru yn ystod y tymor hwn? (OAQ14882)

Will the First Minister make a statement on the National Assembly for Wales’s priorities this term? (OAQ14882)

Rhodri Morgan Prif Weinidog Cymru siaradwyd yn Gymraeg t. 15

Rhodri Morgan The First Minister spoken in Welsh p. 15

Gallaf nodi rhai. Ni allaf roi darlith hanner awr yn awr wrth ateb un cwestiwn gan Cynog, ond fe allaf nodi rhai o’n blaenoriaethau. Un enghraifft yw bwrw ymlaen â phrosiectau fel y prosiect WRAP—rhaglen weithredu ar wastraff ac adnoddau—a enillwyd, yr ydym yn deall yn awr, gan Gymru. Felly, o hynny daw rhyw £80 miliwn o fuddsoddiad yn yr amgylchedd a datblygu economaidd yn sgîl llwyddiant melin bapur Shotton yn y gogledd. Bydd hynny er lles mawr i’r amgylchedd a’r economi. Os gallwch ladd dau aderyn â’r un garreg yn y fath fodd, dyna ddwy flaenoriaeth yn yr un prosiect. Yr un sy’n wir am brosiect canolfan data rhyngrwyd BT Ignite, o ran band llydan. Mae’r adeiladwyr ar y safle yn awr wrthi’n adeiladu ers yr wythnos diwethaf—£90 miliwn o fuddsoddiad. Efallai mai honno fydd y ganolfan ddata orau ym Mhrydain Fawr pan agorir hi mewn blwyddyn. Hefyd, yn bwysig i chi a’r Pwyllgor yr ydych yn ei gadeirio, enghraifft arall yw adeiladu ar y camau a gymerwyd eisoes i asesu ansawdd ymchwil ein prifysgolion y clywsom amdanynt ar ôl ein Cyfarfod Llawn olaf cyn y Nadolig. Mae’r camau a gymerwyd gan ein prifysgolion yn ddisglair dros ben.

I can note some of them. I cannot give a half-hour lecture now in answer to one question from Cynog, but I can note some of our priorities. An example is the driving forward of projects like the WRAP project—the waste and resources action programme—which has been won, we now understand, by Wales. Therefore, from that will come some £80 million of investment in the environment and economic development in the wake of Shotton paper mill’s success in north Wales. That will greatly benefit the environment and the economy. If you can kill two birds with one stone in such a way, you have two priorities in the same project. The same is true of the BT Ignite internet data centre project, in terms of broadband. The constructors are now on site and have been working since last week—an investment of £90 million. That will possibly be the best data centre in Great Britain when it is opened in a year’s time. Also, of importance to you and the Committee which you chair, is the example of building on the steps already taken to assess the quality of our universities’ research, which we heard about after the last Plenary before Christmas. The steps taken by our universities are exceptionally striking.

Cynog Dafis siaradwyd yn Gymraeg t. 16

Cynog Dafis spoken in Welsh p. 16

Mae’n ymddangos nad yw buddsoddi yn y rheilffyrdd felly ymhlith y blaenoriaethau pwysicaf. A yw’r Prif Weinidog yn cytuno bod trosglwyddo’r cyfrifoldeb a’r gyllideb ar gyfer rheilffyrdd i’r Cynulliad yn bwysig? Os ydyw, a ddywedodd hynny wrth Stephen Byers a gweddill Llywodraeth y Deyrnas Gyfunol? Os y gwnaeth hynny, pa ateb a gafodd?

It appears then that investing in the railways is not among the most important priorities. Does the First Minister agree that transferring the responsibility and the budget for railways to the Assembly is important? If he does, has he said so to Stephen Byers and the rest of the UK Government? If he has done so, what answer did he get?

Rhodri Morgan Prif Weinidog Cymru siaradwyd yn Gymraeg t. 16

Rhodri Morgan The First Minister spoken in Welsh p. 16

Nac ydwyf. Ni allaf enwi pob un o’r blaenoriaethau. Fodd bynnag, gan y crybwyllwyd rhai eisoes yn y cwestiynau blaenorol, nid oedd yn fwriad gennyf sôn am y rheilffyrdd. Ni ddylai Cynog gasglu dim o’r ffaith nad enwais y rheilffyrdd fel blaenoriaeth.

No. I cannot name every priority. However, as others had already been mentioned in the previous questions, I did not intend to mention the railways. Cynog should not draw conclusions from the fact that I did not name the railways as a priority.

Y mae’r cwestiwn ynglŷn â gwneud llwyddiant o drafnidaeth gyhoeddus ac o gael y newid moddol o deithio ar ffyrdd i deithio ar reilffyrdd, o ran nwyddau a theithwyr, yn bwysig. Yr ydym yn gyfrifol am hynny er nad ydym yn gyfrifol am batrwm y rheilffyrdd a etifeddwyd gennym o’r ganrif ddiwethaf ond un, ac o’r setliad. Y mae patrwm y rheilffyrdd yng Nghymru yn wahanol i batrwm yr Alban. Y mae canran uwch o siwrneiau yn cychwyn a gorffen yn yr Alban o’i gymharu â’r rheini sy’n cychwyn a gorffen yng Nghymru. O ran teithiau pwysig sydd naill ai yn cychwyn neu’n gorffen yng Nghymru, mae pen arall y daith yn Lloegr. Felly, nid yw’r cwestiwn ynglŷn â throsglwyddo’r cyfrifoldeb am y rheilffyrdd o weinyddiaeth Llundain i’r Cynulliad mor berthnasol ag y mae Cynog yn ei honni.

The question of making a success of public transport and of making the modal shift from travelling on roads to travelling on the railways, as regards goods and passengers, is important. We are responsible for that although we are not responsible for the pattern of the railways, which we inherited from the last century but one, and from the settlement. The pattern of railways in Wales is different to the pattern in Scotland. A greater percentage of journeys begin and end in Scotland compared to those that begin and end in Wales. Regarding important journeys that either begin or end in Wales, the other end of the journey is in England. Therefore, the question of transferring responsibility for the railways from the administration in London to the Assembly is not as relevant as Cynog claims.

Cynog Dafis siaradwyd yn Gymraeg t. 16

Cynog Dafis spoken in Welsh p. 16

Ai ‘na’ yw’r ateb felly?

Is the answer ‘no’ then?

Rhodri Morgan Prif Weinidog Cymru siaradwyd yn Gymraeg t. 16

Rhodri Morgan The First Minister spoken in Welsh p. 16

Nid wyf wedi codi’r mater hwn.

I have not raised this issue.

John Marek The Deputy Presiding Officer spoken in English p. 16

John Marek Y Dirprwy Lywydd siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 16

Order.

Trefn.

Nick Bourne The Leader of the Welsh Conservatives spoken in English p. 16

Nick Bourne The Leader of the Welsh Conservatives siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 16

One of the priorities set out in ‘A Plan for Wales 2001’, quite correctly, is the health service. Will the First Minister deal with two specific points? First, does he accept the need for diversity and plurality within the NHS? Does he accept that the NHS is our last nationalised industry and that it is time that we had less central state ownership of it? Secondly, will he deal with a specific issue in relation to the flexibility being used in England, namely using overseas treatment for patients? To what extent will this be used in Wales to tackle the NHS waiting lists and when can we expect to see patients from Wales being treated overseas?

Arweinydd Ceidwadwyr Cymru (Nick Bourne): Un o’r blaenoriaethau a nodir yn ‘Cynllun i Gymru 2001’, a hynny’n hollol briodol, yw’r gwasanaeth iechyd. A wnaiff y Prif Weinidog ddelio â dau bwynt penodol? Yn gyntaf, a yw’n derbyn yr angen am amrywiaeth a lluosogrwydd o fewn y GIG? A yw’n derbyn mai’r GIG yw’n diwydiant gwladoledig olaf a’i bod yn hen bryd inni gael llai o berchnogaeth wladol ganoledig arno? Yn ail, a wnaiff ddelio â mater penodol mewn perthynas â’r hyblygrwydd a ddefnyddir yn Lloegr, sef defnyddio triniaeth dramor i gleifion? I ba raddau y bydd hyn yn cael ei ddefnyddio yng Nghymru i fynd i’r afael â’r rhestrau aros yn y GIG a pha bryd y gallwn ddisgwyl gweld cleifion o Gymru yn cael eu trin dramor?

Rhodri Morgan The First Minister spoken in English p. 17

Rhodri Morgan Prif Weinidog Cymru siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 17

On state ownership, I am not sure whether you are proposing to move to using the private finance initiative for hospitals, because we are flexible. The Baglan Hospital will not, strictly speaking, in terms of the buildings, be state-owned. However, that is a PFI hospital in so far as the buildings and, to some extent, the plant, remain in the hands of the private consortium for 50 years or whatever the term of the contract may be. The broad thrust of the NHS being a publicly provided service is strong while allowing for the fact that, since 1948 and the founding of the NHS, dentistry and general practice are independently contracted. They are private in a sense, although many people do not regard them in that way. However, general practitioners, dentists and opticians are private sub-contractors. Therefore, the NHS is not a Stalinist state ownership system. It is a mixed economy. It has been so since 1948, and will remain so.

O safbwynt perchnogaeth y wladwriaeth, nid wyf yn siŵr a ydych yn cynnig symud at ddefnyddio’r fenter cyllid preifat ar gyfer ysbytai, oherwydd yr ydym yn hyblyg. Ni fydd Ysbyty Baglan, yng ngwir ystyr y term, o ran adeiladau, ym mherchnogaeth y wladwriaeth. Fodd bynnag, ysbyty PFI ydyw mor bell ag y bo’r adeiladau ac, i ryw radau, yr offer, yn parhau yn nwylo’r consortiwm preifat am 50 mlynedd neu beth bynnag yw telerau’r cytundeb. Mae hanfod cyffredinol y GIG yn wasanaeth a ddarperir yn gyhoeddus yn gryf tra’n caniatáu am y ffaith, ers 1948 a sefydlu’r GIG, fod deintyddiaeth a meddygaeth gyffredinol o dan gytundebau annibynnol. Maent yn breifat, mewn un ystyr, er na fydd llawer o bobl yn eu hystyried felly. Fodd bynnag, mae meddygon teulu, deintyddion ac optegwyr yn is-gontractwyr preifat. Felly, nid yw’r GIG yn gyfundrefn berchnogaeth wladwriaethol Stalinaidd. Mae’n economi gymysg. Bu felly ers 1948, a bydd yn parhau felly.

As regards treatment abroad, I am not familiar with the details of whether treatment abroad is encouraged in Wales as much as it is in England or whether we have any treatment abroad proposed. It is easier for people in the south east of England to pop across to France for treatment than it would be for people from Wales. Most people from Wales would regret going abroad for treatment if they would have to go. They might have to go and, therefore, they might live with it, but it would be with enormous regret. I will write to Nick giving him the up-to-date position on that issue.

O safbwynt triniaeth dramor, nid wyf yn gyfarwydd â’r manylion a yw triniaeth dramor yn cael ei hannog yng Nghymru i’r un graddau ag yn Lloegr neu a oes gennym fwriad i gynnig triniaeth dramor. Mae’n haws i bobl yn ne ddwyrain Lloegr fwrw draw i Ffrainc am driniaeth nag a fyddai i bobl o Gymru. Byddai’r rhan fwyaf o bobl o Gymru yn difaru mynd dramor am drinaieth pe bai’n rhaid iddynt fynd. Mae’n bosibl y byddai’n rhaid iddynt fynd, ac felly, byddent efallai yn barod i’w dderbyn, ond byddai hynny’n resyn mawr. Ysgrifennaf at Nick yn rhoi’r sefyllfa ddiweddaraf iddo ar y mater hwnnw.

Nick Bourne spoken in English p. 18

Nick Bourne siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 18

I am grateful for your last point. It may be that Ireland is much closer to Wales and might provide somewhere where patients could be treated. It is worth considering that.

Yr wyf yn ddiolchgar am eich pwynt olaf. Efallai bod Iwerddon yn llawer nes at Gymru ac y gallai fod yn fan lle gallai cleifion gael eu trin. Mae’n werth ystyried hynny.

On my first point, the statements about the need for less state control were not mine, but were made by Alan Milburn this morning. The approach in England contrasts with that in Wales. Alan Milburn is referring to less control and less need to interfere with structures. The Assembly’s Minister for Health and Social Services has been stamping about on the profession in size 15 wooden clogs. It is obvious that the approach in Wales is different from that in England. Is it not time that we left it to the professionals to care for our patients?

Ar fy mhwynt cyntaf, nid fy sylwadau i oedd y rhai am yr angen am lai o reolaeth wladol, ond sylwadau Alan Milburn y bore yma. Mae’r ymagwedd yn Lloegr yn wahanol i’r un yng Nghymru. Mae Alan Milburn yn cyfeirio at lai o reolaeth a llai o angen i ymyrryd â strwythurau. Mae Gweinidog y Cynulliad dros Iechyd a Gwasanaethau Cymdeithasol wedi bod yn neidio ar y proffesiwn mewn clocsiau pren maint 15. Mae’n amlwg bod yr ymagwedd yng Nghymru yn wahanol i’r hyn ydyw yn Lloegr. Onid yw’n bryd inni adael i’r bobl broffesiynol ofalu am ein cleifion?

Rhodri Morgan The First Minister spoken in English p. 18

Rhodri Morgan Prif Weinidog Cymru siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 18

If you are referring to the Today interview with Alan Milburn, I heard that but I have not heard any subsequent press conference that he may have given. The difference between our proposal for local health groups in Wales, and the freedom of primary care trusts in England to pursue their priorities for their area, is part of the same philosophy, namely to take the cork out of the champagne bottle of the great glory of the British healthcare system. Our primary care providers, whether they be pharmacists, GPs, doctors, or, in some cases, opticians, when it comes to detecting glaucoma, are much more than gatekeepers. They provide an awful lot of the services which in other parts of the world are invariably provided in hospitals. That is the great glory of the system. We are building on that, and England is building on that. We are using slightly different methods. However, it is about uncorking that champagne bottle. The enabling of the primary care sector to grow to its full potential in England and Wales is happening, although by slightly different methods.

Os ydych yn cyfeirio at gyfweliad Alan Milburn ar Today, fe’i clywais ond ni chlywais unrhyw gynhadledd newyddion ar ôl hynny y gallai fod wedi ei rhoi. Mae’r gwahaniaeth rhwng ein cynnig ar gyfer grwpiau iechyd lleol yng Nghymru, a rhyddid ymddiriedolaethau gofal sylfaenol yn Lloegr i fynd ar drywydd eu blaenoriaethau ar gyfer eu hardaloedd, yn rhan o’r un athroniaeth, sef tynnu’r corcyn allan o botel siampaen gogoniant mawr y system gofal iechyd ym Mhrydain. Mae ein darparwyr gofal sylfaenol, boed yn fferyllwyr, meddygon teulu, doctoriaid, neu, mewn rhai achosion, optegwyr, pan fydd yn fater o ganfod glawcoma, yn llawer mwy na cheidwaid y pyrth. Darparant lawer iawn o’r gwasanaethau sydd mewn rhannau eraill o’r byd yn cael eu darparu yn amlach na pheidio gan ysbytai. Dyna ogoniant mawr y system. Yr ydym ni yn adeiladu ar hynny, ac mae Lloegr yn adeiladu ar hynny. Defnyddiwn ddulliau sydd ychydig yn wahanol. Fodd bynnag, mae’n ymwneud â thynnu corcyn y botel siampaen honno. Galluogir sector gofal sylfaenol i dyfu i’w lawn botensial yng Nghymru a Lloegr, er i hynny fod drwy ddulliau sydd ychydig yn wahanol.

Christine Gwyther spoken in English p. 18

Christine Gwyther siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 18

For far too long, the health service in Pembrokeshire has wrestled with the problem of acute and elderly service provision in the south-east of the county. Tenby cottage hospital is becoming less and less fit for purpose. We have lived through consultation after consultation of varying degrees of effectiveness. Do you agree that it is time that we sorted the problem out once and for all, and will you ensure that, with the help of Jane Hutt, the business case for a purpose built community hospital in south-east Pembrokeshire is considered urgently?

Am lawer gormod o amser, mae’r gwasanaeth iechyd yn Sir Benfro wedi ymrafael â phroblem darpariaeth gwasanaethau dwys a henoed yn ne-ddwyrain y sir. Mae ysbyty bwthyn Dinbych-y-pysgod yn dod yn llai a llai addas i’r diben. Yr ydym wedi byw drwy un ymgynghoriad ar ôl y llall a amrywiodd o ran eu heffeithiolrwydd. A gytunwch ei bod yn bryd inni ddatrys y broblem unwaith ac am byth, ac a wnewch sicrhau, gyda chymorth Jane Hutt, y bydd yr achos busnes dros gael ysbyty cymuned a adeiladwyd i’r diben yn ne ddwyrain Sir Benfro yn cael ystyriaeth frys?

Rhodri Morgan The First Minster spoken in English p. 19

Rhodri Morgan Prif Weinidog Cymru siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 19

Yes. I am sure that we can do that. I visited that hospital with you during the last Assembly elections, if I remember rightly, and I was impressed by the work done there. It would not be proper for me to shoot out commitments about what will be done on this or any other capital project from this lectern. However, the point has been forcibly made in your question, and I am sure that Jane and the professionals in the service will take note of it.

Gwnaf. Yr wyf yn siŵr y gallwn wneud hynny. Ymwelais â’r ysbyty hwnnw yn eich cwmni yn ystod etholiadau diwethaf y Cynulliad, os y cofiaf yn iawn, a gwnaeth y gwaith sy’n digwydd yno argraff dda arnaf. Ni fyddai’n briodol i mi roi ymrwymiadau yn fyrbwyll ynglŷn â’r hyn gaiff ei wneud ar hyn nac ar unrhyw brosiect cyfalaf arall o’r darllenfwrdd hwn. Fodd bynnag, gwnaed y pwynt yn gryf yn eich cwestiwn, ac yr wyf yn siŵr y bydd Jane a’r bobl broffesiynol yn y gwasanaeth yn ei nodi.

Ieuan Wyn Jones The Leader of the Opposition spoken in English p. 19

Ieuan Wyn Jones Arweinydd yr Wrthblaid siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 19

I am sure that it is common ground between us, First Minister, that the railways in Wales have always suffered from branch-line mentality, poor rolling stock, a lack of infrastructure investment, and has always been low down on the list of priorities. Given that those facts must be common ground between us, I fail to understand how you can be so sanguine about the announcement made by the Strategic Rail Authority yesterday. Do you believe that the kind of investment that the SRA is talking about in Wales over the next 10 years, namely £200 million—and transport experts are saying that we need at least £1.2 billion—will give us a reliable, safe and affordable service? Is it not time that you told the SRA that Wales deserves better?

Yr wyf yn siŵr ei fod yn dir cyffredin rhyngom, Brif Weinidog, fod y rheilffyrdd yng Nghymru wedi dioddef erioed gan y meddylfryd llinellau bach, stoc wagenni gwael, diffyg buddsoddiad yn yr isadeiledd, a bu erioed yn isel ar y rhestr blaenoriaethau. A derbyn bod y ffeithiau hyn yn sicr yn dir cyffredin rhyngom, ni allaf ddeall sut y gallwch fod mor ddidaro ynglŷn â’r cyhoeddiad a wnaed gan yr Awdurdod Rheilffyrdd Strategol ddoe. A gredwch fod y math o fuddsoddiad y sonia’r Awdurdod amdano yng Nghymru dros y 10 mlynedd nesaf, sef £200 miliwn—a dywed yr arbenigwyr trafnidiaeth fod angen o leiaf £1.2 biliwn arnom—yn mynd i roi gwasanaeth diogel a fforddadwy i ni? Onid yw’n bryd eich bod yn dweud wrth yr Awdurdod fod Cymru’n haeddu gwell?

Rhodri Morgan The First Minster spoken in English p. 19

Rhodri Morgan Prif Weinidog Cymru siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 19

Sue Essex and I had a meeting with Richard Bowker, the chairman of the SRA, last week, which was cordial. We put a strong case to him. He put the case for a consolidation and safety first approach to what was done in the first 10 years of his tenure in the SRA and in executing the Department for Transport, Local Government and the Regions’ 10-year transport strategy, which applies to England. The SRA will work with the Assembly regarding the bits of the rail network that are in Wales, and service transport journeys that start and finish in Wales, or Wales and the borders. We agreed on the Wales and Borders franchise. We did not agree on some other issues—that is inevitable. Part of our job is to see how much we can get out of a strategy. Another key issue to which you referred is investment in Wales. You must accept—especially as someone who represents an area such as Ynys Môn—that if the service from Holyhead to Euston is sped up, and nine-tenths of that line happens to be in England, and that nine-tenths of the congestion problems are in England, that will benefit your constituents just as much as an investment that happens to be in Wales. It can be for Wales without being in Wales.

Cafodd Sue Essex a minnau gyfarfod gyda Richard Bowker, cadeirydd yr Awdurdod yr wythnos diwethaf, a oedd yn un cyfeillgar. Rhoesom achos cryf ger ei fron. Dadleuodd ef dros yr ymagwedd o blaid atgyfnerthu a diogelwch yn gyntaf i’r hyn a wneir yn ystod 10 mlynedd cyntaf ei swydd yn yr Awdurdod ac yn y gwaith o weithredu strategaeth trafnidiaeth 10 mlynedd yr Adran Trafnidiaeth, Llywodraeth Leol a’r Rhanbarthau, sy’n ymwneud â Lloegr. Bydd yr Awdurdod yn gweithio gyda’r Cynulliad ynghylch y darnau o’r rhwydwaith reilffyrdd sydd yng Nghymru, a’r teithiau trafnidiaeth gwasanaeth sy’n dechrau ac yn gorffen yng Nghymru, neu yng Nghymru a’r gororau. Cawsom gytundeb ar fasnachfraint Wales and Borders. Ni chytunom ar rai materion eraill—mae hynny’n anorfod. Rhan o’n gwaith ni yw gweld faint y gallwn ei gael allan o’r strategaeth. Mater allweddol arall y cyfeirioch ato yw buddsoddiad yng Nghymru. Rhaid ichi dderbyn—yn arbennig fel rhywun sy’n cynrychioli ardal fel Ynys Môn—os caiff y gwasanaeth rhwng Caergybi ac Euston ei gyflymu, a bod naw rhan o ddeg o’r llinell honno yn digwydd bod yn Lloegr, a bod naw rhan o ddeg o’r problemau tagfeydd yn Lloegr, bydd hynny o fudd i’ch etholwyr i’r un graddau ag y byddai buddsoddiad sy’n digwydd bod yng Nghymru. Gall fod er budd Cymru heb fod yng Nghymru.

Ieuan Wyn Jones spoken in English p. 20

Ieuan Wyn Jones siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 20

I come back to your point about the Wales and Borders franchise. We all want that to succeed, but do you agree with the figure that was published yesterday, that Wales and West Trains has already made a loss of over £13 million in the first nine months of this year? Do you not recognise that, if we are to have the kind of service that you and I want, £20 million a year over the next 10 years will only scratch the surface? Why do we not grasp this nettle and say that we want a modern, efficient railway service in Wales, and why do you not go to the SRA and demand it?

Dof yn ôl at eich pwynt ynglŷn â masnachfraint Wales and Borders. Yr ydym i gyd am i hwnnw lwyddo, ond a gytunwch â’r ffigur a gyhoeddwyd ddoe sef bod Wales and West Trains eisoes wedi gwneud colled o ragor na £13 miliwn yn ystod naw mis cyntaf y flwyddyn hon? Oni chydnabyddwch, os ydym i gael y math o wasanaeth yr ydych chi a minnau am ei weld, na fydd £20 miliwn y flwyddyn dros y 10 mlynedd nesaf ond yn crafu’r wyneb? Pam na allwn fynd i’r afael â hyn a dweud ein bod am gael gwasanaeth rheilffordd modern ac effeithiol yng Nghymru, a pham nad ewch at yr Awdurdod a’i fynnu?

Rhodri Morgan The First Minster spoken in English p. 20

Rhodri Morgan Prif Weinidog Cymru siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 20

That is where you like the megaphone, and I prefer the telephone and meeting the chairman of the SRA to see what we can do. That is your style, and you will have to see what you get from pursing that style. I do not think that you will get anything, but it is your choice. You must understand that we regard the early approval of the Wales and Borders franchise as a great achievement. It has been approved ahead of all the other refranchising exercises. It is contained as a firm commitment in the document produced by the Strategic Rail Authority yesterday. The winner will be agreed later this year and it will start operating next year. That process will take place over the next 12 months before the first trains start running under the new franchise. That is the period for negotiating and you cannot do that by megaphone, Ieuan. You must learn that. We will get the best deal for Wales and the rail passengers through this kind of negotiating.

Dyna lle yr ydych chi’n hoff o’r megaffon, ac mae’n well gennyf fi y ffôn a chwrdd â chadeirydd yr Awdurdod i weld beth y gallwn ei wneud. Dyna eich arddull, a bydd yn rhaid ichi weld beth a gewch o ddilyn yr arddull honno. Ni chredaf y cewch ddim, ond eich dewis chi ydyw. Rhaid ichi ddeall ein bod yn ystyried cymeradwyaeth gynnar masnachfraint Wales and Borders fel gorchest ardderchog. Cafodd ei gymeradwyo cyn yr holl ymarferiadau ail roi’r masnachfreintiau eraill. Fe’i cynhwysir fel ymrwymiad cadarn yn y ddogfen a gynhyrchwyd gan yr Awdurdod Rheilffyrdd Strategol ddoe. Cytunir ar yr enillydd yn ddiweddarach eleni a bydd yn dechrau gweithredu y flwyddyn nesaf. Bydd y broses honno yn digwydd dros y 12 mis nesaf cyn i’r trenau cyntaf ddechrau teithio dan y fasnachfraint newydd. Dyna’r amser i negodi ac ni allwch wneud hynny â megaffon, Ieuan. Rhaid ichi ddysgu hynny. Drwy’r math hwn o negodi y cawn y ddêl orau i Gymru a’r teithwyr rheilffyrdd.

Refferendwm ar Arian Sengl Ewrop

A Referendum on the Single European Currency

Q7 William Graham spoken in English p. 21

C7 William Graham siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 21

Will the First Minister make a statement on discussions that he has had with the Secretary of State for Wales concerning the possible date of a referendum on the single European currency? (OAQ14874)

A wnaiff Prif Weinidog Cymru ddatganiad ar y trafodaethau a gafodd gydag Ysgrifennydd Gwladol Cymru ynghylch dyddiad posibl refferendwm ar arian sengl Ewrop? (OAQ14874)

Rhodri Morgan The First Minister spoken in English p. 21

Rhodri Morgan Prif Weinidog Cymru siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 21

I have had discussions with the Secretary of State for Wales, but their content is a closely guarded secret.

Cefais drafodaethau gydag Ysgrifennydd Gwladol Cymru, ond mae eu cynnwys yn gyfrinach dan gêl.

William Graham spoken in English p. 21

William Graham siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 21

Thank you so much for your reply, First Minister, which was wholly intelligible to us all, I am sure. Once the five economic tests have been suitably fudged, will 1 May 2003 be a suitable date?

Diolch o galon am eich ateb, Brif Weinidog, a oedd, yr wyf yn sicr, yn llwyr ddealladwy i bawb. Unwaith y caiff y pum prawf economaidd eu ffugio’n addas, a fydd 1 Mai 2003 yn ddyddiad addas?

Rhodri Morgan The First Minister spoken in English p. 21

Rhodri Morgan Prif Weinidog Cymru siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 21

That date would not be my choice because we have had strong indications from electoral registration offices that it would be on a different franchise from the Assembly elections and that therefore, there would be some confusion. However, there are other arguments in terms of one visit to the polling station in favour of that date. The date is less important than the issue. What matters is what happens as regards the five economic tests and how public opinion has overcome ignorance to what the euro really means now that it is in existence as a normal currency for 310 million people. My views on the date are on public record. However, let us concentrate on the issue rather than the date because that is 10 times more important.

Nid y dyddiad hwnnw fyddai fy newis oherwydd cawsom arwyddion cryf gan y swyddfeydd cofrestru etholiadol y byddai ar etholfraint wahanol i etholiadau’r Cynulliad ac felly byddai rhywfaint o ddryswch. Fodd bynnag, ceir dadleuon eraill o blaid un ymweliad â’r orsaf bleidleisio ar y dyddiad hwnnw. Nid yw’r dyddiad mor bwysig â’r mater dan sylw. Yr hyn sy’n bwysig yw beth sy’n digwydd o ran y pum prawf economaidd a sut y mae barn gyhoeddus wedi goresgyn anwybodaeth o ran yr hyn y mae’r ewro yn ei olygu mewn gwirionedd gan ei bod yn bodoli bellach fel arian arferol ar gyfer 310 miliwn o bobl. Mae fy marn ar y dyddiad wedi ei chofnodi’n gyhoeddus. Fodd bynnag, gadewch inni ganolbwyntio ar y mater yn hytrach na’r dyddiad gan ei fod 10 gwaith yn bwysicach.

John Marek The Deputy Presiding Officer spoken in English p. 21

John Marek Y Dirprwy Lywydd siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 21

Order. This question concerns the date.

Trefn. Mae’r cwestiwn hwn yn ymwneud â’r dyddiad.

Mick Bates spoken in English p. 22

Mick Bates siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 22

Do you agree that the anti-euro party or the ‘bring back the groat brigade’ will lose the referendum no matter what the date, and that we will have price transparency throughout Europe?

A gytunwch y bydd y blaid wrth-ewro neu’r ‘criw dewch â’r grôt yn ôl’ yn colli’r refferendwm beth bynnag fo’r dyddiad, ac y bydd gennym dryloywder o ran prisiau ar hyd a lled Ewrop?

Rhodri Morgan The First Minister spoken in English p. 22

Rhodri Morgan Prif Weinidog Cymru siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 22

Yes, but you saying so today is not the same as the result being announced after the referendum. We must still have the referendum in spite of your confidence. None of us know how public opinion will go, but the biggest single factor affecting public opinion is the reality of the existence of the euro in note and coin form. It seems to have changed the nature of the debate and people are much less fearful of it now that it exists. In six or nine months’ time, most people in Wales will have seen a euro note or coin and will realise that it is not some kind of fiendish foreign invention.

Gwnaf, ond nid yw’r ffaith eich bod yn ei ddweud heddiw yr un peth â chyhoeddi’r canlyniad ar ôl y refferendwm. Rhaid inni gael refferendwm o hyd er gwaethaf eich hyder. Ni wŷr yr un ohonom beth fydd y farn gyhoeddus, ond y ffactor unigol mwyaf sy’n effeithio ar y farn honno yw bodolaeth wirioneddol yr ewro ar ffurf arian papur a darnau arian. Ymddengys i hynny newid natur y ddadl ac mae pobl yn llawer llai ofnus ohoni nawr ei bod yn bodoli. Mewn chwe neu naw mis, bydd y rhan fwyaf o’r bobl yng Nghymru wedi gweld arian papur neu ddarn arian yr ewro ac wedi sylweddoli nad rhyw fath o ddyfais tramor dieflig ydyw.

Dafydd Wigley siaradwyd yn Gymraeg t. 22

Dafydd Wigley spoken in Welsh p. 22

A yw sylwadau anargyhoeddiadol y Prif Weinidog heddiw yn golygu ei fod eisoes wedi colli’r ddadl gyda Paul Murphy ynglŷn â pheidio â chynnal etholiadau’r Cynulliad a’r referendwm ar yr un diwrnod? A ddywed wrth y Cynulliad yn union beth a ddywedodd Paul Murphy wrtho?

Do the First Minister’s unconvincing comments today mean that he has already lost the argument with Paul Murphy on not holding the Assembly elections and the referendum on the same day? Will he tell the Assembly exactly what Paul Murphy told him?

Rhodri Morgan Prif Weinidog Cymru siaradwyd yn Gymraeg t. 22

Rhodri Morgan The First Minister spoken in Welsh p. 22

Nid oes unrhyw drafodaeth na dadl wedi bod ar y cwestiwn hwn.

There has been no discussion or debate on this question.

Cydgysylltu Polisïau Trawsbynciol ar gyfer y Canolbarth a’r Gorllewin

Co-ordinating Cross-cutting Policies for Mid and West Wales

Q8 Nick Bourne spoken in English p. 22

C8 Nick Bourne siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 22

How is the First Minister co-ordinating cross-cutting policies for the benefit of mid and west Wales? (OAQ14886)

Sut y mae Prif Weinidog Cymru yn cydgysylltu polisïau trawsbynciol er budd canolbarth a gorllewin Cymru? (OAQ14886)

Rhodri Morgan The First Minister spoken in English p. 22

Rhodri Morgan Prif Weinidog Cymru siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 22

I ensure that cross-cutting themes are reflected in policies that benefit mid and west Wales. I was pleased to visit mid Wales on 3 January, and west Wales on 4 January. I visited a farm at Pumsaint and the high-tech Protherics plant outside Llandysul on one day, and I visited the millennium coastal path in Llanelli on the other.

Yr wyf yn sicrhau yr adlewyrchir themâu trawsbynciol yn y polisïau sydd er budd canolbarth a gorllewin Cymru. Yr oeddwn yn falch o ymweld â’r canolbarth ar 3 Ionawr, a’r gorllewin ar 4 Ionawr. Ymwelais â fferm ym Mhumsaint a gwaith uwch dechnoleg Protherics y tu allan i Landysul ar y naill ddiwrnod, ac ymwelais â llwybr arfordir y mileniwm yn Llanelli ar y llall.

Nick Bourne spoken in English p. 23

Nick Bourne siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 23

In the ‘Plan for Wales 2001’ you stated that you planned to help rural post offices, shops and other small businesses and also promote community regeneration. Will you join me in regretting that the post offices will not give statistics of the number of rural post offices that are subject to closure throughout Wales, though I know of them in my area? There are three prospective closures at present. In mid and west Wales, that represents an accelerating trend. Will you also comment on the difficulty of recruiting NHS dentists, specifically in Aberystwyth, Knighton and Presteigne? It is a particular problem in those areas, but it is probably true throughout much of rural Wales. What is the administration doing to address that particular problem?

Yn y ‘Cynllun i Gymru 2001’ dywedasoch eich bod yn bwriadu helpu swyddfeydd post, siopau a busnesau bach gwledig eraill a hefyd yn bwriadu hybu adfywio cymunedol. A ymunwch â mi i resynu na wnaiff swyddfeydd post roi ystadegau ynglŷn â nifer y swyddfeydd post gwledig y bwriedir eu cau ar hyd a lled Cymru, er y gwn amdanynt yn fy ardal? Ar hyn o bryd, mae disgwyl i dri ohonynt gau. Yn y canolbarth a’r gorllewin, cynrychiola hynny duedd gynyddol. A wnewch chi hefyd wneud sylwadau ar ba mor anodd ydyw i recriwtio deintyddion y GIG, yn arbennig yn Aberystwyth, Trefyclo a Llanandras. Mae’n broblem benodol yn yr ardaloedd hynny, ond mae’n debyg o fod yn wir am lawer o Gymru wledig. Beth mae’r weinyddiaeth yn ei wneud i ymdrin â’r broblem benodol honno?

Rhodri Morgan The First Minister spoken in English p. 23

Rhodri Morgan Prif Weinidog Cymru siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 23

I believed that we did have figures for the numbers of post offices closing in Wales, though maybe not at the mid and west Wales level. It was decelerating, not accelerating. If you have evidence that it is accelerating, that completely cuts across the data that I have been given. I would be fascinated to receive your figures. I apologise if there is a problem in getting figures at the level of disaggregation that you are looking for, Nick. I have seen figures, even though I do not have them here now, indicating clearly that the rate of closures was falling.

Credais fod gennym y ffigurau ar gyfer nifer y swyddfeydd post sy’n cau yng Nghymru, er nad efallai ar lefel y canolbarth a’r gorllewin. Yr oedd yn arafu, nid cyflymu. Os oes gennych dystiolaeth ei fod yn cyflymu, mae hynny’n mynd yn groes i’r data a dderbyniais. Byddai gennyf gryn ddiddordeb mewn derbyn eich ffigurau. Ymddiheuraf os yw’n anodd cael ffigurau ar y lefel datgrynhoi yr ydych yn chwilio amdani, Nick. Gwelais ffigurau, er nad ydynt gennyf ar hyn o bryd, sy’n dangos yn eglur bod y nifer sy’n cau yn gostwng.

The recruitment of dentists has been a long-standing problem. This morning, golden hellos for GPs were announced to encourage more GPs into practice in areas of high deprivation, and clearly the same technique has been used to attract dentists into deprived rural areas over the last 10 years or so. If there are still areas where there is no effective dental service within a reasonable travelling distance, I believe that there is still an assistance programme in existence which can assist dentists to enter practice in areas where they serve a community where there is no other dentist within 30 miles.

Bu’r broblem o recriwtio deintyddion yn un hirdymor. Y bore yma, cyhoeddwyd y croeso euraid ar gyfer meddygon teulu i annog mwy o feddygon teulu i weithio mewn ardaloedd sydd ag amddifadedd uchel, a defnyddiwyd yr un dull yn amlwg i ddenu deintyddion i ardaloedd gwledig difreintiedig yn ystod y 10 mlynedd diwethaf. Os oes ardaloedd o hyd lle nad oes gwasanaeth deintyddol o fewn pellter teithio rhesymol, credaf fod rhaglen gymorth yn bodoli o hyd sy’n gallu helpu deintyddion i weithio mewn ardaloedd lle maent yn gwasanaethu cymunedau lle nad oes deintydd arall o fewn 30 milltir.

Kirsty Williams spoken in English p. 23

Kirsty Williams siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 23

Do you agree that 2001 was a devastating year for the economy of Brecon and Radnorshire? Your announcement before Christmas of the new enterprise grant tier 3 funding scheme is welcome. What other measures will you put in place this year to assist businesses in Brecon and Radnorshire?

A gytunwch y bu 2001 yn flwyddyn ddinistriol i economi Brycheiniog a Sir Faesyfed? Croesawyd eich cyhoeddiad cyn y Nadolig ynglŷn â’r cynllun ariannu haen 3 grant menter newydd. Pa fesurau eraill a roddwch ar waith eleni er mwyn cynorthwyo busnesau ym Mrycheiniog a SIr Faesyfed?

Rhodri Morgan The First Minister spoken in English p. 24

Rhodri Morgan Prif Weiniog Cymru siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 24

The extension of the rural rate relief scheme—which I hope will be available from 1 April—will be of major assistance to businesses. The Powys area of mid Wales undoubtedly took a huge knock during the period of foot and mouth disease. Tourism businesses suffered as they did not have any tourists, and there was also a loss of income from farmers which naturally affects tractor mechanics and others who service the farming industry. Carwyn and I have always made it clear that you cannot compensate every business for every penny that they have lost from external factors like foot and mouth disease, bad weather and so on. When you encounter something over and above the normal level of risk that you expect businesses and their insurance companies to absorb, that is when Government comes in with special assistance measures. In Wales, these stand up well to scrutiny and comparison with those across the border in England or north of the border in Scotland.

Bydd ymestyn y cynllun cymorth trethi gwledig—y gobeithiaf y bydd ar gael o 1 Ebrill ymlaen—yn gymorth mawr i fusnesau. Nid oes amheuaeth y cafodd ardal Powys yn y canolbarth gryn ergyd yn ystod cyfnod clwy’r traed a’r genau. Dioddefodd busnesau twristiaeth gan nad oedd ganddynt unrhyw dwristiaid, a chollwyd incwm hefyd gan ffermwyr sy’n effeithio’n naturiol ar beirianwyr tractor ac eraill sy’n gwasanaethu’r diwydiant ffermio. Dywedodd Carwyn a minnau o’r cychwyn na allwch ddigolledu pob busnes am bob ceiniog a gollwyd oherwydd ffactorau allanol megis clwy’r traed a’r genau, tywydd gwael ac yn y blaen. Pan ddewch ar draws rhywbeth sydd y tu hwnt i’r lefel risg arferol y byddech yn disgwyl i fusnesau a’u cwmnïau yswiriant dalu amdanynt, dyna pryd y bydd Llywodraeth yn cyflwyno mesurau cymorth arbennig. Yng Nghymru, mae’r rhain yn cymharu’n ffafriol â’r rhai ar draws y ffin yn Lloegr neu i’r gogledd o’r ffin yn yr Alban.

Rhodri Glyn Thomas siaradwyd yn Gymraeg t. 24

Rhodri Glyn Thomas spoken in Welsh p. 24

Gobeithiaf y bydd Prif Weinidog Cymru yn cytuno y byddai system reilffyrdd effeithiol yn caniatáu iddo ef a’i gydweithiwr, y Gweinidog dros Ddatblygu Economaidd, hyrwyddo nifer o bolisïau trawsbynciol yn y canolbarth a’r gorllewin. Yr ydym wedi clywed llawer y prynhawn yma am steil trafod Prif Weinidog Cymru wrth drafod y mater hwn â San Steffan, ond heb glywed llawer am gynnwys ei drafodaethau. Os nad yw am ymladd am fuddsoddiad sylweddol yn rheilffyrdd Cymru, ac i gael y pwerau i’r Cynulliad Cenedlaethol reoli’r rheilffyrdd yng Nghymru, a yw ei drafodaethau yn steil i gyd heb unrhyw gynnwys?

I hope that the First Minister would agree that an effective railway system would enable him and his colleague, the Minister for Economic Development, to promote a number of cross-cutting policies in mid and west Wales. We have heard much of the First Minister’s style in discussing this issue with Westminster, but not much of the substance of his discussions. If he will not fight for significant investment in Welsh railways, and for the National Assembly to be given the power to manage Welsh railways, are his discussions all style and no substance?

Rhodri Morgan Prif Weinidog Cymru siaradwyd yn Gymraeg t. 24

Rhodri Morgan The First Minister spoken in Welsh p. 24

Y cwestiwn sydd yn steil i gyd heb unrhyw gynnwys. Mae’n amlwg nad ydych wedi darllen datganiad yr Awdurdod Rheilffyrdd Strategol, na datganiadau Sue Essex yn ymateb i hynny. Mae’n edrych yn debyg eich bod yn ceisio creu myth nad oes unrhyw fuddsoddiad yng Nghymru, nac i wasanaethu pobl Cymru, yn natganiad yr Awdurdod Rheilffyrdd Strategol. Yr ydym ar ein hennill yng Nghymru os yw’r gwasanaethau i Euston neu Paddington yn llawer cyflymach, ac yn llawer mwy dibynadwy, ar ddiwedd y 10 mlynedd nac ar hyn o bryd. Mae gennych chi, ac Ieuan Wyn Jones ac eraill, broblem wrth ddweud mai’r unig deithiau sy’n cyfrif yw’r rhai sy’n dechrau ac yn diweddu yng Nghymru. Mae teithiau i Paddington ac Euston yr un mor bwysig â theithiau o Gaerdydd i Abertawe.

It is the question that is all style and no substance. It is clear that you have not read the Strategic Rail Authority’s statement, or Sue Essex’s statements in response to it. It looks as if you are trying to create a myth that there is no investment in Wales, nor to serve the people of Wales, in the Strategic Rail Authority’s statement. We benefit in Wales if services to Euston or Paddington are much quicker, and much more reliable, at the end of the 10 years than at present. You, and Ieuan Wyn Jones and others, have a problem when you say that the only journeys that matter are those which begin and end in Wales. Journeys to Paddington and Euston are just as important as journeys from Cardiff to Swansea.

Datganiad Busnes

Business Statement

Andrew Davies The Minister for Assembly Business spoken in English p. 25

Andrew Davies Y Trefnydd siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 25

Business as agreed by the Business Committee this morning is as shown on the Chamberweb under ‘supporting documents’, although I understand that Members may have difficulty logging on at the moment due to problems with the system. I hope that it will be there when you log back on. The Business Committee asked me this morning to consider extending the debate on the Education and Lifelong Learning Committee’s review of higher education. As a consequence, I have moved the statement by my colleague, the Minister for Environment, Sue Essex, on the planning Green Paper to 31 January, and her statement on the Strategic Rail Authority to Thursday, 24 January. This will now give us more time—at least one and a half hours—for the higher education review debate. The Deputy Presiding Officer also determined this morning, under Standing Order 22.5, that the following items need not be referred to Subject Committees for consideration: the Sweeteners in Food (Amendment) (Wales) No. 2 Regulations 2002; the General Teaching Council for Wales (Fees) Regulations 2002; the Education Development Plans (Wales) Regulations 2002; the Non Domestic Rating Rural Rate Relief (Wales) Order 2002, and the Local Authorities Alteration of Requisite Calculation (Wales) Regulations 2002. A copy of this statement will be posted to the intranet and the internet as usual.

Dangosir y busnes fel y cytunwyd arno gan y Pwyllgor Busnes y bore yma ar we’r Siambr o dan ‘dogfennau ategol’, er y deallaf y caiff yr Aelodau anhawster o bosibl i gysylltu ar hyn o bryd oherwydd problemau gyda’r system. Gobeithiaf y bydd yno pan fyddwch yn cysylltu’r tro nesaf. Gofynnodd y Pwyllgor Busnes imi y bore yma i ystyried ymestyn y ddadl ar yr adolygiad o addysg uwch gan y Pwyllgor Addysg a Dysgu Gydol Oes. O ganlyniad, symudais ddatganiad fy nghyd-Aelod, y Gweinidog dros yr Amgylchedd, Sue Essex, ar y Papur Gwyrdd cynllunio i 31 Ionawr, a’i datganiad ar yr Awdurdod Rheilffyrdd Strategol i ddydd Iau, 24 Ionawr. Rhydd hyn fwy o amser inni—o leiaf awr a hanner—ar gyfer y ddadl ar yr adolygiad o addysg uwch. Penderfynodd y Dirprwy Lywydd y bore yma, o dan Reol Sefydlog 22.5, nad oes angen cyfeirio’r eitemau canlynol i’w hystyried gan y Pwyllgorau Pwnc: Rheoliadau Melysyddion mewn Bwyd (Diwygio) (Cymru) Rhif 2 2002; Rheoliadau Cyngor Addysgu Cyffredinol Cymru (Ffioedd) 2002; Rheoliadau Cynlluniau Datblygu Addysg (Cymru) 2002; Gorchymyn Ardrethu Annomestig (Rhyddhad Ardrethi Gwledig) (Cymru) 2002 a Rheoliadau Awdurdodau Lleol (Addasu Cyfrifiadau Angenrheidiol) (Cymru) 2002. Cyhoeddir copi o’r datganiad hwn ar y fewnrwyd a’r rhyngrwyd fel arfer.

John Marek The Deputy Presiding Officer spoken in English p. 25

John Marek Y Dirprwy Lywydd siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 25

Are there any objections to the business statement? I see that there are none. Are there any comments on the business statement?

A oes unrhyw wrthwynebiadau i’r datganiad busnes? Gwelaf nad oes. A oes unrhyw sylwadau ar y datganiad busnes?

Helen Mary Jones spoken in English p. 26

Helen Mary Jones siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 26

Given the public’s grave concerns about the implications for Wales of the Strategic Rail Authority’s 10-year plan—the end-of–the-line feel, the lack of vision, the pushing back of the Great Western mainline upgrade to beyond 2010—and whether the finances, in particular the private finances, will be sufficient, will the Minister for Assembly Business consider arranging a full debate on this issue as soon as possible? I note that a statement from the Minister is scheduled and that is welcome, as far as it goes. However, this is too serious a matter to be dealt with in a ministerial statement alone. The implications are so broad and long-term that discussion in the Environment, Planning and Transport Committee is not enough. Other Members, who are not Committee members, will have something to say.

O ystyried pryderon dwys y cyhoedd ynglŷn â goblygiadau cynllun 10 mlynedd yr Awdurdod Rheilffyrdd Strategol i Gymru—y teimlad ein bod wedi cyrraedd y pen draw, y diffyg gweledigaeth, oedi’r broses o uwchraddio prif linell y Great Western tan ar ôl 2010—ac a fydd yr arian, yn arbennig yr arian preifat, yn ddigonol, a wnaiff y Trefnydd ystyried trefnu dadl lawn ar y mater hwn cyn gynted â phosibl? Nodaf y trefnwyd datganiad gan y Gweinidog ac y mae hynny, o leiaf, i’w groesawu. Fodd bynnag, mae hwn yn fater rhy ddifrifol i ymdrin ag ef mewn datganiad gweinidogol yn unig. Nid yw trafodaeth yn y Pwyllgor Amgylchedd, Cynllunio a Thrafnidiaeth yn ddigon gan fod y goblygiadau mor eang a hirdymor. Bydd gan yr Aelodau eraill, nad ydynt yn aelodau o’r Pwyllgor, rywbeth i’w ddweud.

Jonathan Morgan spoken in English p. 26

Jonathan Morgan siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 26

Minister, further to my call this morning for a debate on the Education Bill, have you had time to discuss with the Minister for Education and Lifelong Learning the timing for such a debate, if one is possible? It is vital that the National Assembly debates the Education Bill. It would be ridiculous for this devolved institution not to debate it. It is an important piece of legislation and Members should have the opportunity to debate this issue in Plenary.

Weinidog, ymhellach i’m cais y bore yma am ddadl ar y Mesur Addysg, a gawsoch amser i drafod amseriad ar gyfer dadl o’r fath, os yw’n bosibl, gyda’r Gweinidog dros Addysg a Dysgu Gydol Oes? Mae’n hanfodol bod y Cynulliad Cenedlaethol yn cynnal dadl ar y Mesur Addysg. Byddai’n chwerthinllyd pe na byddai’r sefydliad datganoledig hwn yn cynnal dadl arno. Mae’n ddarn pwysig o ddeddfwriaeth a dylai’r Aelodau gael cyfle i gynnal dadl ar y mater hwn yn y Cyfarfod Llawn.

Andrew Davies The Member for Assembly Business spoken in English p. 26

Andrew Davies Y Trefnydd siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 26

As always, I will consider these requests in consultation with my ministerial colleagues and report back. We have not been afraid of debate on these issues; in fact we have come forward with these statements in response to policy developments. As I said, I will consider these requests and report back to the Business Committee.

Fel arfer, byddaf yn ystyried y ceisiadau hyn wrth ymgynghori â’m cyd-Aelodau gweinidogol ac yn rhoi gwybod ichi. Ni fu ofn arnom gynnal dadl ar y materion hyn; a dweud y gwir yr ydym wedi cyflwyno’r datganiadau hyn mewn ymateb i ddatblygiadau polisi. Fel y dywedais, byddaf yn ystyried y ceisiadau hyn ac yn rhoi gwybod i’r Pwyllgor Busnes.

John Marek The Deputy Presiding Officer spoken in English p. 26

John Marek Y Dirprwy Lywydd siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 26

Order. There is a power cut in blocks B and C of this building. I am anxious to ensure that we follow Standing Orders and do not depart from them. If any Members experience difficulty in communicating or exercising their rights in the Chamber then I will take any points of order at any time until the power has been restored.

Trefn. Mae toriad trydan ym mlociau B a C yr adeilad hwn. Yr wyf yn awyddus i sicrhau ein bod yn dilyn y Rheolau Sefydlog ac nad ydym yn gwyro oddi wrthynt. Os caiff unrhyw Aelod anhawster i gyfathrebu neu i arfer eu hawliau yn y Siambr yna derbyniaf unrhyw bwyntiau o drefn ar unrhyw adeg hyd nes y bydd y trydan wedi ei adfer.

I am informed that the power is back on; let us hope that it remains so. We now move to points of order.

Fe’m hysbyswyd bod y trydan yn ei ôl; gobeithio y bydd yn parhau felly. Symudwn yn awr at bwyntiau o drefn.

Pwyntiau o Drefn

Points of Order

Ieuan Wyn Jones spoken in English p. 27

Ieuan Wyn Jones siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 27

Point of order. My point of order concerns the non-attributed statement in yesterday’s press about the First Minister’s decision to leave any Cabinet reshuffle until the half-term break. You will recall, Deputy Presiding Officer—as will other Members—that when the First Minister has been questioned in Plenary, he has denied any suggestion that he would reshuffle his Cabinet until the police report on the Welsh Joint Education Committee was concluded. The First Minister has allowed two non-attributed statements to be placed in the press this year. On those two matters—

Pwynt o drefn. Mae fy mhwynt o drefn yn ymwneud â’r datganiad nas priodolwyd yn y wasg ddoe ynglŷn â phenderfyniad y Prif Weinidog i ohirio unrhyw ad-drefniant o’r Cabinet tan y gwyliau hanner tymor. Fe gofiwch, Ddiprwy Lywydd—fel y cofia’r Aelodau eraill—i’r Prif Weinidog, pan gafodd ei holi yn y Cyfarfod Llawn, wadu unrhyw awgrym y byddai’n ad-drefnu ei Gabinet hyd nes yr oedd adroddiad yr heddlu ar Gyd-bwyllgor Addysg Cymru wedi ei gwblhau. Caniataodd y Prif Weinidog i ddau ddatganiad nas priodolwyd gael eu gosod yn y wasg eleni. Ynglŷn â’r ddau fater hynny—

John Marek The Deputy Presiding Officer spoken in English p. 27

John Marek Dirprwy Lywydd siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 27

Order. Is this a matter for me?

Trefn. A yw hwn yn fater i mi?

Ieuan Wyn Jones spoken in English p. 27

Ieuan Wyn Jones siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 27

The point of order for you, Deputy Presiding Officer, is that, because this is a matter that has been considered in Plenary and upon which the First Minister has been questioned, would it not have been courteous of him to make any statement on proposals concerning his Cabinet in the Assembly rather than briefing the press in such a way?

Y pwynt o drefn i chi, Ddirprwy Lywydd, yw, gan mai mater yw hwn a ystyriwyd yn y Cyfarfod Llawn ac yr holwyd y Prif Weinidog arno, oni fyddai wedi bod yn gwrtais pe byddai wedi gwneud unrhyw ddatganiad ar gynigion sy’n ymwneud â’i Gabinet yn y Cynulliad yn hytrach na briffio’r wasg fel hyn?

John Marek The Deputy Presiding Officer spoken in English p. 27

John Marek Y Dirprwy Lywydd siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 27

That is not a point of order for me. Standing Order No. 2.4 states that

Nid yw hwnnw’n bwynt o drefn i mi. Mae Rheol Sefydlog Rhif 2.4 yn datgan

‘The First Secretary shall notify the Assembly of the membership of the Assembly Cabinet and of each member’s responsibilities and accountability, and shall also notify the Assembly of any changes as soon as possible after they have been made.’

‘Bydd y Prif Ysgrifennydd yn hysbysu’r Cynulliad ynglŷn ag aelodaeth Cabinet y Cynulliad a chyfrifoldebau ac atebolrwydd pob aelod, a bydd hefyd yn hysbysu’r Cynulliad ynglŷn ag unrhyw newidiadau cyn gynted ag y bo modd ar ôl eu gwneud.’

I have not received any notification: therefore, no changes have been made. I am sure that the First Minister is aware of the Assembly’s Standing Orders. When any changes are made, his first duty—and I am sure that he will carry it out—will be to notify the Assembly.

Ni dderbyniais unrhyw hysbysiad: felly, ni wnaethpwyd unrhyw newidiadau. Yr wyf yn siŵr bod y Prif Weinidog yn ymwybodol o Reolau Sefydlog y Cynulliad. Pan wneir unrhyw newidiadau, ei ddyletswydd gyntaf—ac yr wyf yn siŵr y bydd yn ei chyflawni—fydd hysbysu’r Cynulliad.

Andrew Davies The Minister for Assembly Business spoken in English p. 28

Andrew Davies Y Trefnydd siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 28

Further to this point of order, it was not an Assembly Government source. The reference in the press was to an Assembly source. That is quite different.

Ymhellach i’r pwynt hwn o drefn, nid ffynhonnell o Lywodraeth y Cynulliad ydoedd. Cyfeiriwyd yn y wasg at ffynhonnell o’r Cynulliad. Mae hynny’n dra gwahanol.

Datganiad gan y Dirprwy Lywydd

Statement by the Deputy Presiding Officer

John Marek The Deputy Presiding Officer spoken in English p. 28

John Marek Y Dirprwy Lywydd siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 28

During last Thursday’s Plenary, there was a discussion about the use of the words ‘cowardly’ and ‘poodle’. I undertook to consider the matter and have done so. I suggested at the time to Christine Gwyther that it was not in order to refer to another Member’s behaviour as cowardly or to another Member as making a cowardly attack. Christine used the word when reacting to Elin Jones’s statement that

Yn ystod y Cyfarfod Llawn ddydd Iau diwethaf, cafwyd trafodaeth ynglŷn â defnyddio’r geiriau ‘llwfr’ a ‘pwdl’. Addewais ystyried y mater a gwneuthum hynny. Awgrymais ar y pryd wrth Christine Gwyther nad oedd mewn trefn i gyfeirio at ymddygiad Aelod arall fel ymddygiad llwfr na chyfeirio at ymosodiad gan Aelod arall fel un llwfr. Defnyddiodd Christine y gair pan ymatebodd i’r datganiad canlynol gan Elin Jones:

‘Perhaps Blair’s and Millbank’s poodles are alive and well in the Assembly Labour Government, two years after the original poodle’s disappearance.’

‘Efallai fod pwdls Blair a Millbank yn fyw ac iach yn Llywodraeth Lafur y Cynulliad, ddwy flynedd wedi diflaniad y pwdl gwreiddiol.’

This is a serious matter. Christine told me that she was happy to withdraw the word ‘cowardly’ but that she took exception to the use of the word ‘poodle’ to describe a former Assembly Member. I agree with her view. I have been guilty of this in the past, as some Members may know, but I have changed my mind. We should not use offensive words to describe other Members—former or otherwise. I think that anyone would be offended to be described as a poodle or as behaving in a cowardly fashion. Neither word is appropriate in our debates and I hope that Members will bear that in mind and not use them in future.

Mae hwn yn fater difrifol. Dywedodd Christine wrthyf ei bod yn fodlon tynnu’r gair ‘llwfr’ yn ôl ond nad oedd yn fodlon ar y defnydd o’r gair ‘pwdl’ i ddisgrifio cyn Aelod Cynulliad. Cytunaf â’i barn. Bûm yn euog o hyn yn y gorffennol, fel y gŵyr rhai o’r Aelodau, ond newidiais fy meddwl. Ni ddylem ddefnyddio geiriau tramgwyddus i ddisgrifio Aelodau eraill—cyn Aelodau neu fel arall. Credaf y byddai unrhyw un yn cael ei dramgwyddo pe byddai’n cael ei ddisgrifio fel pwdl neu fel rhywun a oedd yn ymddwyn yn llwfr. Nid yw’r un o’r geiriau yn briodol yn ein dadleuon a gobeithiaf y bydd yr Aelodau’n cadw hynny mewn cof ac na fyddant yn eu defnyddio yn y dyfodol.

The Clerk has reminded me that Members are still experiencing problems with the Chamberweb. I ask them to log off and then log on again. I am assured that everything will then be in order for those Members who are still having difficulty with their PCs.

Fe’m hatgoffwyd gan y Clerc bod yr Aelodau yn parhau i gael problemau â gwe’r Siambr. Gofynnais iddynt ddatgysylltu ac yna gysylltu eto. Fe’m sicrhawyd y bydd popeth mewn trefn ar gyfer yr Aelodau hynny sy’n parhau i gael anawsterau gyda’u cyfrifiaduron.

Cymeradwyo Adroddiad Grant Arbennig (Rhif 21) (Cymru) 2001 Cyllid Lywodraeth Leol (Cymru)

Approval of the Local Government Finance (Wales) Special Grant Report (No. 21) (Wales) 2001

Sue Essex The Minister for Environment spoken in English p. 29

Sue Essex Y Gweinidog dros yr Amgylchedd siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 29

I propose that

Cynigiaf fod

Sue Essex The Minister for Environment (continued) spoken in English p. 29

Sue Essex Y Gweinidog dros yr Amgylchedd (parhad) siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 29

I begin by providing some background information. The ozone depleting substances regulation is about refrigerators, as those of us who have sat on the Environment, Planning and Transport Committee know only too well. First, I would like to record my thanks to David Davies—there is a first time for everything. David has taken a great interest in this and shared his knowledge and information. I thank him for that.

Dechreuaf drwy roi ychydig o wybodaeth gefndirol. Mae rheoliad sylweddau teneuo’r osôn yn ymwneud ag oergelloedd, fel y gŵyr y rhai ohonom sydd wedi eistedd ar Bwyllgor yr Amgylchedd, Cynllunio a Thrafnidiaeth ond yn rhy dda. Yn gyntaf, hoffwn gofnodi fy niolch i David Davies––mae tro cyntaf i bopeth. Cymerodd David lawer o ddiddordeb yn hyn a rhannodd ei wybodaeth. Diolchaf iddo am hynny.

The ozone depleting substances regulation came into effect in October 2000. From 1 January 2002 it requires the removal of ozone depleting substances such as chlorofluorocarbons from cooling systems and insulation foam from all domestic fridges and freezers prior to disposal. It also bans the export of refrigeration equipment containing these substances outside the European Union. You should note that 40 per cent of fridges have traditionally been sent to developing countries for reuse. Fridges and freezers will need to be stored until sufficient UK extraction facilities become available. A significant effect of the regulation is that retailers have discontinued their take-back schemes for fridges and freezers because of excessive cost. Local authorities are therefore bearing the burden of the regulation in line with their statutory waste collection and disposal duties. They can charge households for collection but not disposal, and must also provide sites at which householders can dispose of fridges and freezers free of charge. The grant that I am proposing for approval today will enable local authorities to put in place appropriate arrangements for the safe storage and ultimate disposal of domestic fridges and freezers arising out of the EU regulation.

Daeth rheoliad sylweddau teneuo’r osôn i rym ym mis Hydref 2000. O 1 Ionawr 2002 mae’n mynnu cael gwared ar sylweddau teneuo’r osôn megis clorofflwrogarbonau o systemau oeri ac ewyn inswleiddio o bob oergell a rhewgell domestig cyn cael gwared arnynt. Mae hefyd yn gwahardd allforio offer rheweiddio sy’n cynnwys y sylweddau hyn y tu allan i’r Undeb Ewropeaidd. Dylech nodi bod 40 y cant o oergelloedd yn draddodiadol wedi cael eu hanfon i wledydd datblygedig i’w hailddefnyddio. Bydd angen storio oergelloedd a rhewgelloedd nes y bydd cyfleusterau tynnu digonol ar gael yn y DU. Un o effeithiau sylweddol y rheoliad yw bod manwerthwyr wedi rhoi’r gorau i’w cynllun derbyn oergelloedd a rhewgelloedd yn ôl oherwydd y costau uchel. Felly mae awdurdodau lleol yn ysgwyddo baich y rheoliad yn unol â’u dyletswyddau casglu a gwaredu gwastraff statudol. Gallant godi tâl ar gartrefi am eu casglu ond nid am eu gwaredu, a rhaid iddynt hefyd ddarparu safleoedd lle y gall pobl gael gwared ar oergelloedd a rhewgelloedd am ddim. Bydd y grant yr wyf yn ei gynnig i’w gymeradwyo heddiw yn galluogi awdurdodau lleol i wneud trefniadau priodol ar gyfer storio oergelloedd a rhewgelloedd domestig ac yna gael gwared arnynt yn ddiogel o ganlyniad i reoliad yr UE.

We have responded to this difficult situation by making funds available to local government. A sum of £600,000 is being made available to the end of this financial year. The Assembly Government has worked closely with the Welsh Local Government Association on these issues and the allocation of funds using the standard spending assessment formula. This has the support of the WLGA. Consideration is being given to what further support will be made available in the subsequent year.

Yr ydym wedi ymateb i’r sefyllfa anodd hon drwy roi arian i lywodraeth leol. Bydd swm o £600,000 ar gael tan ddiwedd y flwyddyn ariannol hon. Mae Llywodraeth y Cynulliad wedi cydweithio’n agos â Chymdeithas Llywodraeth Leol Cymru ar y materion hyn a dyrannu arian drwy ddefnyddio’r fformiwla asesiad gwariant safonol. Mae Cymdeithas Llywodraeth Leol Cymru yn cefnogi hyn. Rhoddir ystyriaeth i ba gymorth ychwanegol a roddir yn y flwyddyn ganlynol.

The special grant report indicates that funding can be used in relation to collection, transport, storage and disposal. Local authorities can also use the grant to facilitate the reuse of suitable fridges through partnership with community and voluntary sector organisations. I am sure that many such groups involved in social projects, where the refurbishment of fridges plays an important role, will welcome that. In the future, we have to find a way forward that will cover the period up until the responsibility for recovery is placed on the producer. I ask Members to support this special grant. It is a responsible way forward in a difficult situation. Further assessments will need to be made to ascertain the scale of the problem and to find solutions in the next few years.

Mae’r adroddiad grant arbennig yn nodi y gellir defnyddio arian ar gyfer casglu, cludo, storio a gwaredu. Gall awdurdodau lleol ddefnyddio’r grant hefyd i hwyluso ailddefnyddio oergelloedd addas drwy bartneriaeth â sefydliadau cymunedol a sefydliadau yn y sector gwirfoddol. Yr wyf yn siŵr y bydd llawer o grwpiau o’r fath sy’n ymwneud â phrosiectau cymunedol, lle mae adnewyddu oergelloedd yn chwarae rôl bwysig, yn croesawu hynny. Yn y dyfodol, rhaid inni ddod o hyd i ffordd o symud ymlaen a fydd yn cwmpasu’r cyfnod nes bydd y cyfrifoldeb am eu casglu yn cael ei osod ar y cynhyrchydd. Gofynnaf i’r Aelodau gefnogi’r grant arbennig hwn. Mae’n ffordd gyfrifol ymlaen mewn sefyllfa anodd. Bydd angen cynnal asesiadau pellach yn yr ychydig flynyddoedd nesaf i weld beth yw maint y broblem ac i geisio canfod atebion.

Rhodri Glyn Thomas siaradwyd yn Gymraeg t. 30

Rhodri Glyn Thomas spoken in Welsh p. 30

Ategaf sylwadau Sue ynglŷn â David Davies, llefarydd y Ceidwadwyr ar oergelloedd a rhewgelloedd sydd wedi goroesi eu defnyddioldeb. Mae wedi dod o hyd i faes gwleidyddol priodol iddo arbenigo ynddo. Yr ydym yn ddyledus iddo am ddwyn y mater pwysig hwn i’n sylw; mae wedi dyfalbarhau gyda’r pwnc.

I endorse Sue’s comments on David Davies, the Conservative spokesperson on fridges and freezers that have outlived their usefulness. He has found an appropriate political area for him to specialise in. We are indebted to him for drawing this important issue to our attention; he has persevered with the issue.

O ran y cymhorthdal, mae’n bwysig ein bod yn annog awdurdodau lleol i ystyried yr opsiynau sydd ar gael er mwyn cael gwared ar yr oergelloedd a’r rhewgelloedd hyn. Byddai eu storio yn wastraff arian, ond ni fyddwn am weld llosgyddion yn cael eu defnyddio i gael gwared arnynt. A all y Gweinidog egluro beth yn union yw rôl llosgyddion yn y mater hwn? A yw’n rhagweld bod ganddynt rôl? Dylai llosgyddion fod yn opsiwn olaf, os yn opsiwn o gwbl.

As regards the grant, it is important that we urge local authorities to consider the options available to dispose of these fridges and freezers. Storing them would be a waste of money, but I would not want incinerators to be used to dispose of them. Could the Minister explain what exactly is the role of incinerators in this? Does she anticipate that there will be a role for them? Incinerators should be a last option, if an option at all.

Mae offer symudol ar gael. Ymwelais ag Evans Logistics sydd â chanolfannau yn Llanidloes ac Aberystwyth ac sydd wedi llwyddo i gael gafael ar offer symudol a all gael gwared ar yr oergelloedd a’r rhewgelloedd hyn. A fydd y Gweinidog yn pwyso ar awdurdodau lleol i wneud defnydd o’r math hwn o offer er mwyn sicrhau ein bod, yn hytrach na storio a chreu mynyddoedd o oergelloedd a rhewgelloedd ledled Cymru, yn ceisio cael gwared arnynt a’n bod yn cefnogi cwmnïau sydd wedi bod yn fentrus yn y maes hwn?

Mobile equipment is available. I visited Evans Logistics, which has centres in Llanidloes and Aberystwyth and has succeeded in obtaining mobile equipment that can dispose of these fridges and freezers. Will the Minister urge local authorities to make use of this type of equipment to ensure that, rather than storing these fridges and freezers and creating mountains of them throughout Wales, we try to dispose of them, and that we support enterprising companies in this field?

Lynne Neagle spoken in English p. 31

Lynne Neagle siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 31

I have concerns in relation to the role that my constituency may play in disposing of fridges. Sue is aware of ongoing concerns about the operation of the ReChem plant in Pontypool. I ask Sue about the possible incineration of fridges in Pontypool. I understand that the plant operator, Shanks Waste Solutions, has expressed an interest in incinerating fridges there. That will cause much concern locally, particularly if the potential for incinerating fridges in the UK is fairly limited. That would mean that Pontypool would receive the bulk of these fridges to dispose of and that, yet again, we will be taking the rest of the UK’s rubbish.

Mae gennyf bryderon ynglŷn â’r rôl y gallai fy etholaeth i ei chwarae wrth gael gwared ar oergelloedd. Mae Sue yn ymwybodol o’r pryderon parhaus ynglŷn â gweithgareddau gwaith ReChem ym Mhontypŵl. Holaf Sue ynglŷn â’r posibilrwydd o losgi oergelloedd ym Mhontypŵl. Deallaf fod Shanks Waste Solutions, gweithredwr y gwaith, wedi dangos diddordeb mewn llosgi oergelloedd yno. Bydd hynny yn peri llawer o bryder yn lleol, yn arbennig os yw’r potensial ar gyfer llosgi oergelloedd yn y DU yn gymharol gyfyngedig. Golygai hynny y byddai Pontypŵl yn derbyn y rhan fwyaf o’r oergelloedd hyn i gael gwared arnynt, ac mai ni, unwaith eto, a gaiff sbwriel gweddill y DU.

Has Sue considered Pontypool’s special circumstances, bearing in mind that the area around the plant has already been found to be contaminated and that people have ongoing concerns about the area which have yet to be addressed?

A yw Sue wedi ystyried amgylchiadau arbennig Pontypŵl, o gofio bod yr ardal o amgylch y gwaith eisoes yn llygredig a bod gan bobl bryderon parhaus am yr ardal sydd angen mynd i’r afael â hwy?

David Davies spoken in English p. 31

David Davies siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 31

I appreciate that when you raise an issue such as fridges in the Chamber, it always causes a few Members to chuckle. However, as I said last October, this is a serious issue. It continues to be so. That point has not been underlined as strongly as I would have liked.

Wrth godi mater megis oergelloedd yn y Siambr, gwerthfawrogaf ei fod bob amser yn achosi rhai o’r Aelodau i chwerthin. Fodd bynnag, mae hyn yn fater difrifol, fel y dywedais fis Hydref diwethaf. Mae’n parhau felly. Ni thanlinellwyd y pwynt hwnnw mor gryf ag y byddwn yn ei ddymuno.

The point about incineration is key to this issue, but not for the reasons that were mentioned, which are important in themselves. There is an ongoing debate as to whether incineration is a good or a bad idea, but we do not want to get into that. As the Minister pointed out, these fridges must be stored at local authorities’ expense until a way is found of disposing of them. On the continent, fridges are disposed of by incineration and it is not clear whether we must dispose of them in the same way. Some bodies say that we will and others that we will not. If incineration is to be used, licenses must be issued to existing plants or planning permission given to new plants. That process could take several years. During that time, those fridges will be stored at local authorities’ expense.

Mae’r pwynt ynglŷn â llosgi yn allweddol i’r mater hwn, ond nid am y rhesymau a nodwyd, sy’n bwysig ynddynt eu hunain. Mae’r ddadl a yw llosgi yn syniad da neu ddrwg yn un barhaus, ond nid ydym am drafod hynny. Fel y dywedodd y Gweinidog, rhaid storio’r oergelloedd hyn ar draul awdurdodau lleol nes y canfyddir modd o gael gwared arnynt. Gwaredir oergelloedd ar y cyfandir drwy eu llosgi, ac nid yw’n glir a ddylem gael gwared arnynt yn yr un modd. Dywed rhai cyrff y gwnawn a dywed eraill na wnawn. Os byddwn yn llosgi, rhaid rhoi trwyddedau i weithfeydd presennol neu ganiatâd cynllunio i weithfeydd newydd. Gallai’r broses honno gymryd sawl blwyddyn. Yn y cyfamser, caiff yr oergelloedd hynny eu storio ar draul awdurdodau lleol

That leads me on to the issue of money. As the Minister pointed out, this grant of £600,000 lasts only until the end of this financial year. We could be faced with this problem for three, four, five or six years before we find a way to deal with these fridges. In the meantime, local authorities will face an additional expense—which has not yet become clear—namely the cost of recovering fridges dumped in the countryside. That is already happening.

Mae hynny yn fy arwain at fater arian. Fel y nododd y Gweinidog, dim ond tan ddiwedd y flwyddyn ariannol hon y mae’r grant hwn o £600,000 yn para. Gallem wynebu’r broblem hon am dair, pedair, pump neu chwe blynedd cyn inni ddod o hyd i ffordd o ddelio â’r oergelloedd hyn. Yn y cyfamser, bydd awdurdodau lleol yn wynebu cost ychwanegol––nad yw’n glir hyd yma––sef y gost o gasglu oergelloedd a adawyd yng nghefn gwlad. Mae hynny yn digwydd eisoes.

The Department for Environment, Food and Rural Affairs has not provided clear instructions on this matter. It has not issued guidance as to whether or not fridges stored in warehouses will have to be treated as hazardous waste. Neither has it issued instructions as to what can be done with the stripped down parts when fridges are taken apart.

Nid yw Adran yr Amgylchedd, Bwyd a Materion Gwledig wedi darparu cyfarwyddiadau clir ar y mater hwn. Nid yw wedi rhoi arweiniad a ddylid trin oergelloedd a gaiff eu storio mewn warysau fel gwastraff peryglus ai peidio. Nid yw ychwaith wedi rhoi cyfarwyddiadau ynglŷn â’r hyn y gellir ei wneud gyda’r rhannau gwahanol pan gaiff oergelloedd eu tynnu ar wahân.

This is a serious point, because we are likely to cause a tragedy in the third world. As the Minister pointed out, up to 40 per cent of fridges have been exported to third-world countries, particularly Nigeria, which I understand has an electricity system similar to that of the UK. Fridges were being sold there for £4 or £5, which meant that people who had no hope of buying western consumer goods were getting hold of fridges. Some people were using them to make ice to be sold in the streets. They were also used to store medicines in out-of-the-way areas. We are denying people in the third world the opportunity to own fridges, which can save lives. If we stop the export of parts for fridges already there, it will be a huge step backwards for third-world countries. There are reports that it will lead to deaths.

Mae hwn yn bwynt difrifol, gan ein bod yn debygol o achosi trychineb yn y trydydd byd. Fel y nododd y Gweinidog, allforiwyd hyd at 40 y cant o oergelloedd i wledydd y trydydd byd, yn arbennig Nigeria, sydd, yn ôl fy nealltwriaeth, â system drydan debyg i’r un yn y DU. Gwerthwyd oergelloedd yno am £4 neu £5, a olygai fod pobl nad oedd ganddynt obaith o brynu nwyddau traul gorllewinol eraill yn prynu oergelloedd. Yr oedd rhai pobl yn eu defnyddio i wneud iâ i’w werthu ar y stryd. Defnyddiwyd hwy hefyd i storio meddyginiaethau mewn ardaloedd anghysbell. Yr ydym yn gwrthod y cyfle i bobl yn y trydydd byd fod yn berchen ar oergelloedd, a all achub bywydau. Os byddwn yn atal allforio rhannau ar gyfer oergelloedd sydd yno eisoes, bydd yn gam mawr yn ôl i wledydd y trydydd byd. Bydd hyn yn arwain at farwolaethau, yn ôl rhai adroddiadau.

Although the Assembly cannot do much about this, we should consider it. However, there has not been discussion about this matter with the Assembly. It has been ongoing for two years, but at no point did anyone in Europe have the courtesy to think about discussing it with the elected body in Wales.

Er na all y Cynulliad wneud llawer ynglŷn â hyn, dylem ei ystyried. Fodd bynnag, ni chafwyd trafodaeth am y mater hwn gyda’r Cynulliad. Bu’n mynd yn ei flaen ers dwy flynedd, ond ni chafodd neb yn Ewrop, ar unrhyw adeg, y cwrteisi i ystyried ei drafod gyda’r corff etholedig yng Nghymru.

Until last year, fridges were collected to be reused. I am aware of two companies in Monmouthshire that provide jobs through repairing and polishing up fridges and sending them to third-world countries, thus ensuring a better standard of living for people in those countries. That has been ended at the stroke of a pen. What frightens me is the way in which this legislation was passed—in another country by people who had no interest in what was going on. Every week between October and December last year I was telephoned by a constituent—a former lorry driver who has set up a business exporting these fridges—who wanted to know why he was being put out of business. What frightens me most of all is that not one of the people responsible for this legislation, who claim to be our representatives in Europe, had the courtesy to telephone my constituent and discuss his problems. That is why he contacted me and why I became involved in this matter. It concerns me that legislation in this country is made and passed in such a way.

Tan y llynedd, casglwyd oergelloedd i’w hailddefnyddio. Gwn am ddau gwmni yn Sir Fynwy sy’n cyflogi pobl drwy adnewyddu a thwtio oergelloedd a’u hanfon i wledydd y trydydd byd, gan sicrhau, felly, safonau byw gwell i bobl yn y gwledydd hynny. Daethpwyd â hynny i ben ag un ergyd. Yr hyn sy’n fy nychryn yw’r modd y pasiwyd y ddeddfwriaeth hon––mewn gwlad arall gan bobl nad oedd â diddordeb yn yr hyn oedd yn digwydd. Bob wythnos rhwng Hydref a Rhagfyr y llynedd, derbyniais alwadau ffôn gan etholwr––cyn yrrwr lori sydd wedi sefydlu busnes yn allforio’r oergelloedd hyn––a oedd am wybod pam ei fod yn colli busnes. Yr hyn sy’n fy nychryn fwyaf yw nad oedd gan yr un o’r bobl a oedd yn gyfrifol am y ddeddfwriaeth hon, sy’n honni eu bod yn ein cynrychioli yn Ewrop, y cwrteisi i ffonio fy etholwr i drafod ei broblemau. Dyna pam y cysylltodd â mi a dyna pam y deuthum ynghlwm â’r mater hwn. Mae llunio deddfwriaethau yn y wlad hon a’u pasio yn y fath fodd yn peri pryder imi.

We will support the motion. However, we will return to the issue because it will cause problems for local authorities and will cost all of us a lot of money. Also, I am sad to say, it will cause deaths in the third world.

Cefnogwn y cynnig. Fodd bynnag, dychwelwn at y mater gan y bydd yn creu problemau i awdurdodau lleol a bydd yn costio’n ddrud i bob un ohonom. Hefyd, mae’n ddrwg gennyf ddweud, bydd yn achosi marwolaethau yn y trydydd byd.

Eleanor Burnham spoken in English p. 34

Eleanor Burnham siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 34

The Welsh Liberal Democrats welcome this financial package for local authorities and thank Sue for her hard work. We also thank David Davies because, considering the general Conservative line and lack of reference to recycling in the party’s manifesto, his contribution was a breath of fresh air. As for Plaid Cymru, it claims to be an anti-nuclear party, but Ieuan Wyn Jones constantly advocates the reopening of Wylfa nuclear power station. The director of Friends of the Earth in the UK, Charles Secrett, has often commended the Liberal Democrats for showing the Tories how to put environmental concerns at the heart of an election manifesto.

Mae Democratiaid Rhyddfrydol Cymru yn croesawu’r pecyn ariannol hwn i awdurdodau lleol ac yn diolch i Sue am ei gwaith caled. Diolchwn hefyd i David Davies oherwydd, o ystyried agwedd gyffredinol y Ceidwadwyr a’r diffyg cyfeiriad at ailgylchu ym maniffesto’r blaid, yr oedd ei gyfraniad yn chwa o awyr iach. O ran Plaid Cymru, er iddi honni ei bod yn blaid wrth-niwclear, mae Ieuan Wyn Jones yn gyson o blaid ailagor gorsaf ynni niwclear Wylfa. Mae Charles Secrett, cyfarwyddwr Cyfeillion y Ddaear yn y DU, wedi canmol y Democratiaid Rhyddfrydol yn aml am ddangos i’r Torïaid sut i osod materion amgylcheddol yn ganolog mewn maniffesto etholiadol.

That aside, we are keen to support the grant to fund the prevention of ozone-depleting substances and urge the Assembly to develop a greater awareness of environmental issues, as was mentioned by my colleague, David Davies.

Gan roi hynny o’r neilltu, yr ydym yn awyddus i gefnogi’r grant i ariannu atal sylweddau teneuo’r osôn ac yn pwyso ar y Cynulliad i ddatblygu mwy o ymwybyddiaeth o faterion amgylcheddol, fel y dywedodd fy nghyd-Aelod, David Davies.

Ieuan Wyn Jones spoken in English p. 34

Ieuan Wyn Jones siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 34

Will you give way?

A ildiwch?

Eleanor Burnham spoken in English p. 34

Eleanor Burnham siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 34

I will not give way.

Nid ildiaf.

The Liberal Democrats welcome moves to reuse refrigerators where that is desirable and possible. The exporting of 40 per cent of refrigerators to developing countries is an excellent practice, which we would hope to increase, as it treats old refrigerators as a recyclable resource rather than mere waste. We condemn the fact that the UK does not have specialist facilities capable of extracting ozone depleting substances from insulation foam before refrigerators are destroyed. We feel that the Assembly should consider the possibilities of opening such a plant in Wales, to further highlight how serious an issue we consider environmental issues and the long-term preservation of the planet to be.

Mae’r Democratiaid Rhyddfrydol yn croesawu cynigion i ailddefnyddio oergelloedd pan fo hynny’n ddymunol ac yn bosibl. Mae’r arfer o allforio 40 y cant o oergelloedd i wledydd datblygedig yn arfer ardderchog y gobeithiwn ei gynyddu, gan ei fod yn trin hen oergelloedd fel adnodd y gellir ei ailgylchu yn hytrach na gwastraff yn unig. Yr ydym yn condemnio’r ffaith nad oes gan y DU gyfleusterau arbenigol sy’n gallu tynnu sylweddau teneuo’r osôn o ewyn inswleiddio cyn dinistrio oergelloedd. Credwn y dylai’r Cynulliad ystyried y posibiliadau o agor gwaith felly yng Nghymru, a fydd yn amlinellu ymhellach ein bod yn ystyried materion amgylcheddol yn ddifrifol ynghyd â chadwraeth hirdymor y blaned.

Sue Essex The Minister for Environment spoken in English p. 34

Sue Essex Y Gweinidog dros yr Amgylchedd siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 34

On David’s comment, the commission passed the regulations, effectively banning or requesting the extraction of these materials from the foam in June 2001. It was a comparatively small requirement. However, as you said, it has a considerable knock-on effect. There is an important environmental lesson for us all that, when we make these decisions, we must know how they will be delivered. That is the issue to which you were alluding.

Ynglŷn â sylw David, y comisiwn a basiodd y rheoliadau, gan fwy nau lai wahardd neu wneud cais i dynnu’r deunyddiau hyn o’r ewyn ym mis Mehefin 2001. Gofyniad cymharol fychan ydoedd. Fodd bynnag, fel y dywedasoch, mae’r ôl-effeithiau yn sylweddol. Mae’n wers amgylcheddol bwysig y dylai pob un ohonom wybod sut y gweithredir ar y penderfyniadau a wnawn. Dyna’r mater y cyfeiriwch ato.

To reassure many of the people who have spoken, a considerable amount of work is currently being undertaken into alternative, mechanical methods of dealing with residual refrigerators and freezers. A member of our waste policy unit is a member of a UK working group on this matter. As Rhodri Glyn said, there are many examples coming from the private sector of how it might respond to this difficult situation. That is entrepreneurship, I suppose. They are useful initiatives. The consideration of those possibilities is now before that working group.

Er mwyn tawelu meddwl llawer o’r bobl a siaradodd, mae llawer iawn o waith yn digwydd ar hyn o bryd i ymdrin â dulliau amgen, peirianyddol o ddelio ag oergelloedd a rhewgelloedd nad oes eu hangen bellach. Mae aelod o’n uned polisi gwastraff yn aelod o weithgor y DU ar y mater hwn. Fel y dywedodd Rhodri Glyn, ceir sawl enghraifft gan y sector preifat o sut y gallai ymateb i’r sefyllfa anodd hon. Dyna yw entrepreneuriaeth, mae’n debyg. Maent yn fentrau defnyddiol. Mae’r gweithgor hwnnw yn ystyried y posibiliadau hynny ar hyn o bryd.

People have alluded to the storage option in the short term. That is the only way forward and money to support local government is being produced for that. We will assess what is needed in subsequent years. We do not know for how long this will continue, but the estimate is that it will be 2005 when the producer responsibility regulations will be put into effect. The producers will then have responsibility for taking this equipment back and will not be able to refuse to do so, as at present.

Mae pobl wedi cyfeirio at yr opsiwn o storio yn y byrdymor. Dyna’r unig ffordd ymlaen ac mae arian yn cael ei gynhyrchu i gynorthwyo llywodraeth leol yn hynny o beth. Byddwn yn asesu’r hyn sydd ei angen yn y blynyddoedd canlynol. Ni wyddom pa mor hir y bydd hyn yn parhau, ond amcangyfrifir mai yn 2005 y gweithredir ar reoliadau cyfrifoldeb y cynhyrchydd. Wedyn, y cynhyrchwyr fydd yn gyfrifol am gymryd yr offer hwn yn ôl a ni allant wrthod gwneud hynny, fel sy’n digwydd ar hyn o bryd.

On the issue of incineration and Shanks, Shanks is a commercial interest that operates under licence from the Environment Agency. That is the regulatory control and we cannot intervene. However, the ideas that are emerging on recovery, which will hopefully embody more of a recycling attitude than purely incineration, are probably the way forward. We will wait to see what examples emerge from the UK working group. In the meantime, I assure local government that this money is being provided.

O ran mater llosgi a Shanks, mae Shanks yn fusnes masnachol sy’n gweithredu o dan drwydded gan Asiantaeth yr Amgylchedd. Dyna’r rheoliad rheoleiddiol ac ni allwn ymyrryd. Fodd bynnag, mae’n debyg mai’r syniadau sy’n dod i’r wyneb ynglŷn â chasglu, a fydd, gobeithio, yn ymgorffori mwy o agwedd ailgylchu na llosgi yn unig, yw’r ffyrdd ymlaen. Arhoswn i weld pa enghreifftiau fydd yn deillio o weithgor y DU. Yn y cyfamser, rhoddaf sicrwydd i lywodraeth leol bod yr arian hwn ar gael.

DerbyniwydAdopted O blaidFor 52 YmatalAbstain 0 Yn erbynAgainst 0

Derbyniwyd y cynnig.

Motion carried.

Sut y pleidleisiodd yr AelodauHow Members voted
O blaidFor (52)
  • Lorraine Barrett
  • Mick Bates
  • Peter Black
  • Nick Bourne
  • Eleanor Burnham
  • Rosemary Butler
  • Alun Cairns
  • Christine Chapman
  • Jane Davidson
  • Andrew Davies
  • David Davies
  • Geraint Davies
  • Glyn Davies
  • Janet Davies
  • Ron Davies
  • Sue Essex
  • Delyth Evans
  • Michael German
  • Brian Gibbons
  • William Graham
  • Janice Gregory
  • John Griffiths
  • Christine Gwyther
  • Brian Hancock
  • Jane Hutt
  • Pauline Jarman
  • Ann Jones
  • Carwyn Jones
  • Elin Jones
  • Gareth Jones
  • Helen Mary Jones
  • Ieuan Wyn Jones
  • Peter Law
  • Huw Lewis
  • David Lloyd
  • Val Lloyd
  • David Melding
  • Tom Middlehurst
  • Jonathan Morgan
  • Rhodri Morgan
  • Lynne Neagle
  • Alun Pugh
  • Jenny Randerson
  • Peter Rogers
  • Janet Ryder
  • Karen Sinclair
  • Gwenda Thomas
  • Owen John Thomas
  • Rhodri Glyn Thomas
  • Dafydd Wigley
  • Kirsty Williams
  • Phil Williams

Pwynt o Drefn

Point of Order

Ieuan Wyn Jones spoken in English p. 36

Ieuan Wyn Jones siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 36

Point of order. In two Plenary sessions, Eleanor Burnham has made reference to me in a particular context. I understand that she is not obliged to allow an intervention. However, will you inform Members that, if they refer to another Member in that manner then they should, as a matter of courtesy, allow an intervention?

Pwynt o drefn. Mewn dau Gyfarfod Llawn, cyfeiriodd Eleanor Burnham ataf mewn cyd-destun arbennig. Deallaf nad oes rhaid iddi ganiatáu ymyrraeth. Fodd bynnag, a wnewch chi hysbysu’r Aelodau, os ydynt yn cyfeirio at Aelod arall yn y modd hwnnw y dylent, fel mater o gwrteisi, ganiatáu ymyrraeth?

John Marek The Deputy Presiding Officer spoken in English p. 37

John Marek Y Dirprwy Lywydd siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 37

I do not want to take sides on this matter, Ieuan. However, you are right. If Members refer to other Members in a debate, it is normal courtesy to allow an intervention if one is sought. I hope that Members bear that in mind.

Nid wyf am gymryd ochr ar y mater hwn, Ieuan. Fodd bynnag, yr ydych yn gywir. Os bydd yr Aelodau yn cyfeirio at Aelodau eraill mewn dadl, cwrteisi arferol yw caniatáu ymyrraeth os gwneir cais am un. Gobeithiaf y bydd yr Aelodau yn cadw hynny mewn cof.

Cymeradwyo Adroddiad Grant Arbennig (Rhif 9) (Cymru) 2001 Cyllid Llywodraeth Leol (Cymru)

Approval of the Local Government Finance (Wales) Special Grant Report (No. 9) (Wales) 2001

Jane Hutt The Minister for Health and Social Services spoken in English p. 37

Jane Hutt Y Gweinidog dros Iechyd a Gwasanaethau Cymdeithasol siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 37

I propose that

Cynigiaf fod

Jane Hutt The Minister for Health and Social Services (continued) spoken in English p. 37

Jane Hutt Y Gweinidog dros Iechyd a Gwasanaethau Cymdeithasol (parhad) siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 37

Unaccompanied asylum-seeking children are the most vulnerable of all asylum seekers. Approval of this report will enable the Assembly to reimburse local authorities in Wales for expenditure incurred in caring for unaccompanied asylum-seeking children in the last financial year. There is no way of knowing how many such children may be in a local authority area, or when. In this case, we understand that we are dealing with 37 children in Wales.

Plant ar eu pennau eu hunain sy’n ceisio lloches yw’r mwyaf diamddiffyn o’r holl geiswyr lloches. Bydd cymeradwyo’r adroddiad hwn yn galluogi’r Cynulliad i ddigolledu awdurdodau lleol yng Nghymru am wariant a wnaed wrth ofalu am blant ar eu pennau eu hunain a oedd ceisio lloches yn ystod y flwyddyn ariannol ddiwethaf. Nid oes modd gwybod faint o’r plant hyn sydd mewn ardal awdurdod lleol, na phryd y maent yno. Yn yr achos hwn, deallwn ein bod yn delio â 37 o blant yng Nghymru.

The term ‘unaccompanied asylum-seeking child’ means an asylum seeker under the age of 18 who is not living with a parent or guardian in the UK. Local authorities have a responsibility under the Children Act 1989 to provide services to children in need within their area. A child in need is one who is unlikely to achieve or maintain, or have the opportunity to achieve or maintain, a reasonable standard of health or development, or whose health or development is likely to be significantly impaired without the provision of services by a local authority, or is disabled. If an unaccompanied asylum-seeking child falls within that definition, authorities have the same duties to provide services for that child, including accommodation, as for any other child in need in their area. There has been recent publicity on increasing numbers of asylum-seeking children under the age of 16 being accommodated in shared houses without adult supervision or being placed in bed and breakfast accommodation rather than being accommodated in registered children’s homes or being placed with foster families. Although that poses a problem for a number of local authorities in England it is not one that has been faced by any of our authorities where, on the basis of our initial inquiries, all such children appear to be appropriately accommodated. We will monitor the position.

Mae’r term ‘plentyn ar ei ben ei hun sy’n ceisio lloches’ yn golygu ceisiwr lloches o dan 18 oed nad yw’n byw gyda rhiant neu warchodwr yn y DU. Mae cyfrifoldeb ar awdurdodau lleol o dan Ddeddf Plant 1989 i ddarparu gwasanaethau i blant mewn angen yn eu hardal. Plentyn mewn angen yw un sy’n annhebygol o gael neu gynnal, neu gael y cyfle i gael neu gynnal, safon resymol o iechyd neu ddatblygiad, neu blentyn y mae’n debygol yr amherir ar ei iechyd neu ei ddatblygiad yn sylweddol oni fydd awdurdod lleol yn darparu gwasanaethau, neu blentyn sy’n anabl. Os yw plentyn ar ei ben ei hun sy’n ceisio lloches yn dod o fewn y diffiniad hwnnw, mae’r un dyletswyddau ar awdurdodau i ddarparu gwasanaethau ar gyfer y plentyn hwnnw, gan gynnwys llety, ag ar gyfer unrhyw blentyn arall mewn angen yn eu hardal. Bu sylw yn ddiweddar ynglŷn â’r nifer cynyddol o blant o dan 16 oed sy’n ceisio lloches sy’n cael lle i fyw mewn tai a rennir heb oruchwyliaeth oedolyn neu’n cael eu rhoi mewn llety gwely a brecwast yn hytrach na chael lle mewn cartrefi plant cofrestredig neu gyda theuluoedd maeth. Er bod hynny’n creu problem i nifer o awdurdodau lleol yn Lloegr ni fu rhaid i un o’n hawdurdodau ni ei hwynebu, lle mae’r plant hyn, yn ôl ein hymchwiliadau cychwynnol, yn cael llety priodol. Byddwn yn cadw llygad ar y sefyllfa.

Up to the end of December 1999, payment for accommodation and day to day living expenses for all asylum seekers, including unaccompanied children, was met by special grant arrangements operated by the Assembly and the Department of Health. From 1 January 2000, the Home Office took responsibility, under the new dispersal scheme, for accommodation and the living expenses of adult asylum seekers and their families in England and Wales. The dispersal arrangements do not apply to unaccompanied asylum-seeking children. They are the responsibility of local authorities under their Children Act 1989 duties. The Assembly retains responsibility for reimbursing them through the grant report now before you.

Hyd at ddiwedd Rhagfyr 1999, talwyd am lety a threuliau byw dyddiol ceiswyr lloches, gan gynnwys plant ar eu pennau eu hunain, drwy drefniadau grant arbennig a weithredwyd gan y Cynulliad a’r Adran Iechyd. O 1 Ionawr 2000, y Swyddfa Gartref a gymerodd y cyfrifoldeb, o dan y cynllun gwasgaru newydd, dros lety a chostau byw oedolion a’u teuluoedd sy’n ceisio lloches yng Nghymru a Lloegr. Nid yw’r trefniadau gwasgaru yn berthnasol i blant ar eu pennau eu hunain sy’n ceisio lloches. Cyfrifoldeb yr awdurdodau lleol o dan ddyletswyddau Deddf Plant 1989 ydynt. Ceidw’r Cynulliad y cyfrifoldeb am eu digolledu drwy’r adroddiad grant sydd ger eich bron yn awr.

Helen Mary Jones siaradwyd yn Gymraeg t. 38

Helen Mary Jones spoken in Welsh p. 38

Yr wyf yn falch ein bod yn trafod yr adroddiad hwn heddiw. Mae’n hollbwysig ein bod yn croesawu’r plant hyn sydd wedi dioddef gymaint. Yn aml, maent wedi gweld pethau y gallwn ni ond eu dychmygu ac yn dal i fod mewn perygl wrth deithio heb eu teuluoedd i wlad nad ydynt yn ei hadnabod ac yn aml, i wlad na fedrant siarad ei hiaith. Mae’r adroddiad heddiw yn gweithredu ymrwymiad Llywodraeth Cymru i sicrhau nad yw llywodraeth leol yng Nghymru yn gorfod ysgwyddo gormod o faich yn nhermau’r cyfrifoldeb ariannol ychwanegol o ofalu am geiswyr lloches yn gyffredinol a’r plant hyn yn enwedig.

I am pleased that we are discussing this report today. It is vital that we welcome these children who have suffered so much. Often, they have seen things that we can only imagine and are still in danger by travelling without their families to a country that they do not know and, often, to a country where they cannot speak the language. Today’s report implements the Government of Wales’s commitment to ensuring that local government in Wales does not have to carry too much of a burden in terms of the additional financial responsibility of caring for asylum seekers in general and these children in particular.

Yr oeddwn yn falch o glywed y Gweinidog yn dweud bod y plant sydd wedi dod i Gymru hyd yn hyn—hyd y gŵyr—wedi cael cartrefi addas. Yr oeddem i gyd yn poeni ar ôl clywed straeon am blant o dan 16 yn cael eu rhoi mewn lleoedd gwely a brecwast ac yn y blaen yn Llundain. Galwaf ar y Llywodraeth i sicrhau ei bod yn cael y wybodaeth lawn ynglŷn â’r sefyllfa yng Nghymru ar hyn o bryd a sicrhau hefyd nad yw’r peryglon hynny yn codi yn y dyfodol. Hoffwn glywed gan y Gweinidog, os yw’r wybodaeth ar gael, beth fydd cyfanswm tebygol yr arian o dan yr adroddiad presennol, ac a yw’r Llywodraeth yn rhagweld mwy neu lai o blant yn dod i Gymru. Deallaf nad yw’r trefniadau dosbarthu yn berthnasol i blant ac mae’n dibynnu lle mae’r plant yn cyrraedd a lle mae awdurdodau’n dod i wybod amdanynt. Fodd bynnag, rhagwelaf y bydd y newidiadau i’r system yn debyg o wneud gwahaniaeth. Galwaf ar y Gweinidog i ystyried hynny a thrafod gyda’r awdurdodau lleol yr effeithiwyd arnynt yn barod i sicrhau ein bod yn barod am y plant pan ac os y dônt.

I was pleased to hear the Minister saying that those children who have come to Wales to date—as far as she knows—have been housed appropriately. We were all concerned after hearing stories of children under 16 being placed in bed and breakfast accommodation and so on in London. I call on the Government to ensure that it receives the full information on the situation in Wales at present and to also ensure that those dangers do not arise in the future. I would like to hear from the Minister, if the information is available, what the likely total sum will be under the present report, and whether the Government foresees more or fewer children coming to Wales. I understand that the dispersal arrangements do not apply to children and that it depends where children arrive in the country and where the authorities become aware of them. However, I foresee that the changes to the system are likely to make a difference. I call on the Minister to consider that and to discuss with local authorities that have already been affected to ensure that we are ready for the children when and if they come.

Deallaf hefyd yr hyn a ddywedodd y Gweinidog am y sawl sydd yn ariannol gyfrifol. Fodd bynnag, polisi’r Swyddfa Gartref sydd yn gyfrifol am y ffaith fod mwy o’r plant hyn yn dod i Gymru yn hytrach nag aros yn Llundain, er enghraifft. Yr wyf yn ymwybodol bod y Gweindiog dros Gyllid, Llywodraeth Leol a Chymunedau wedi trafod gyda’r Llywodraeth ganolog a oes modd cael ychydig o’r arian hwnnw yn ôl i goffrau’r Cynulliad. Yr wyf yn falch bod llywodraeth leol am gael yr arian yn ôl o’r Cynulliad, ond mae angen parhau i bwyso ar y Swyddfa Gartref i sicrhau bod arian yn dod yn ôl i’r Cynulliad hefyd.

I also understand what the Minister said about who is financially responsible. However, it is the Home Office’s policy which is responsible for the fact that more of these children come to Wales rather than stay in London, for example. I am aware that the Minister for Finance, Local Government and Communities has discussed with central Government whether it is possible for some of that money to be returned to the Assembly’s coffers. I am pleased that local authorities will get the money back from the Assembly, but the Home Office must be pressed upon to ensure that money also comes back to the Assembly.

Eleanor Burnham spoken in English p. 39

Eleanor Burnham siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 39

The Liberal Democrats welcome this special grant report. We have consistently argued that more money should be given to local authorities in Wales to offset the costs incurred as a result of housing asylum seekers under the UK Government’s dispersal scheme. Our stated policy is to ensure that local services are adequately compensated for the costs of supporting asylum seekers.

Mae’r Democratiaid Rhyddfrydol yn croesawu’r adroddiad grant arbennig hwn. Yr ydym wedi dadlau yn gyson y dylid rhoi mwy o arian i awdurdodau lleol yng Nghymru i’w digolledu am gostau cartrefu ceiswyr lloches o dan gynllun gwasgaru Llywodraeth y DU. Ein polisi datganedig yw sicrhau y caiff gwasanaethau lleol eu digolledu’n ddigonol am gostau cefnogi ceiswyr lloches.

Local authorities shoulder the financial burden for providing services and accommodation for asylum seekers. The partnership Government should be congratulated on easing this burden through this and other measures, including the special grant report that was approved by the Assembly on 25 October last year to ensure that local authorities receive sufficient financial support to meet asylum seekers’ educational needs.

Awdurdodau lleol sy’n ysgwyddo’r baich ariannol o ddarparu gwasanaethau a llety i geiswyr lloches. Dylid llongyfarch y Llywodraeth bartneriaeth am ysgwyddo’r baich hwn drwy’r mesur hwn ac eraill, gan gynnwys yr adroddiad grant arbennig a gymeradwywyd gan y Cynulliad ar 25 Hydref y llynedd i sicrhau bod awdurdodau lleol yn derbyn cymorth ariannol digonol i ddiwallu anghenion addysgol ceiswyr lloches.

By easing some of the financial burden placed on local authorities by asylum seekers, this measure will free up money to be spent on other council services. It will also ensure that assistance is given to a raft of people in need and under great strain.

Drwy ysgwyddo peth o’r baich ariannol a osodir ar awdurdodau lleol gan geiswyr lloches, bydd y mesur hwn yn rhyddhau arian i’w wario ar wasanaethau eraill y cynghorau. Bydd hefyd yn sicrhau y rhoddir cymorth i garfan o bobl anghenus sydd o dan bwysau aruthrol.

William Graham spoken in English p. 40

William Graham siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 40

The Conservatives welcome this special grant report. Although we acknowledge that the children who will come to Wales will be vigorously screened and will be genuine asylum seekers, they will have suffered substantial trauma and stress due to their being unaccompanied and under 16. Therefore, it is likely that additional financial burdens will be placed on local authorities. The average cost of maintaining a child with special learning disabilities in Wales is about £40,000. In one local authority in Wales, there is an unfortunate individual who is so severely handicapped that the cost of maintaining him, for his safety and that of the public, is £250,000 per annum. That is why we pay our rates and taxes. However, the total amount of money reserved under this grant is £448,000. Will the Minister bear in mind that funds over and above the sum presently prescribed may be necessary? She must give an assurance that that will not fall on local authority ratepayers, and also that these children will not be discriminated against.

Mae’r Ceidwadwyr yn croesawu’r adroddiad grant arbennig hwn. Er ein bod yn cydnabod y caiff y plant a ddaw i Gymru eu sgrinio’n ofalus ac y byddant yn geiswyr lloches gwirioneddol, byddant wedi dioddef trawma a straen difrifol drwy fod ar eu pennau eu hunain ac o dan 16 oed. Felly mae’n debygol y rhoddir baich ariannol ychwanegol ar awdurdodau lleol. Costau cynnal plentyn ag anableddau dysgu arbennig yng Nghymru yw tua £40,000 ar gyfartaledd. Mewn un awdurdod lleol yng Nghymru, mae un unigolyn anffodus sydd mor ddifrifol o fethedig fel bod y gost o’i gynnal ef, er ei ddiogelwch ei hun a’r cyhoedd, yn £250,000 y flwyddyn. Dyna pam ein bod yn talu ein trethi. Fodd bynnag, cyfanswm yr arian a neilltuwyd o dan y grant hwn yw £448,000. A wnaiff y Gweinidog gadw mewn cof y byddai’n bosibl y bydd angen arian ychwanegol i’r hyn a nodwyd ar hyn o bryd? Rhaid iddi sicrhau na fydd trethdalwyr awdurdodau lleol yn gorfod talu ac hefyd na fydd y plant hyn yn dioddef camwahaniaethu.

Lorraine Barrett spoken in English p. 40

Lorraine Barrett siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 40

I welcome this special grant report, which will help local authorities with the additional expenditure required to look after and accommodate unaccompanied children seeking asylum. It will be of particular benefit in Cardiff, for instance, which has a higher proportion of minority ethnic communities and asylum seekers than other areas of Wales. I have a query on the conditions for grant payment. If I have read the guidelines properly, the grant does not apply if an unaccompanied child comes here and stays with relatives. Those relatives could be aunts, uncles, grandparents or distant cousins. Is my interpretation right? I am concerned about that, as it seems unfair to the family with whom the child will be staying, as they would incur extra expenditure. Will the Minister clarify that?

Croesawaf yr adroddiad grant arbennig hwn, a fydd yn cynorthwyo awdurdodau lleol gyda’r gwariant ychwanegol sydd ei angen i ofalu am blant ar eu pennau eu hunain sy’n ceisio lloches a’u lletya. Bydd o fantais arbennig i Gaerdydd, er enghraifft, sydd â chyfran uwch o gymunedau lleiafrifoedd ethnig a cheiswyr lloches na rhannau eraill o Gymru. Mae gennyf ymholiad ynglŷn ag amodau talu’r grant. Os wyf wedi darllen y canllawiau’n iawn, nid yw’r grant yn berthnasol os daw plentyn ar ei ben ei hun yma i aros gyda pherthnasau. Gallai’r perthnasau hynny fod yn fodryb, ewythr, nain a thaid neu gefnder pell. A yw fy nehongliad yn gywir? Yr wyf yn bryderus am hynny, gan ei bod yn ymddangos yn annheg ar y teulu y bydd y plentyn yn aros gydag ef, gan y bydd costau ychwanegol arnynt. A wnaiff y Gweinidog egluro hynny?

Jane Hutt The Minister for Health and Social Services spoken in English p. 41

Jane Hutt Y Gweinidog dros Iechyd a Gwasanaethau Cymdeithasol siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 41

The Assembly places a high priority on the need to safeguard and promote the welfare of these children. As Helen Mary said, we welcome and support unaccompanied asylum-seeking children, who are extremely vulnerable. We must ensure that local authorities care appropriately for such children. The indications are that they have done so during the past year. We must ensure that we are prepared and ready to support these children.

Mae’r Cynulliad yn rhoi blaenoriaeth uchel i’r angen i ddiogelu a hyrwyddo lles y plant hyn. Fel y dywedodd Helen Mary, yr ydym yn croesawu ac yn cefnogi plant ar eu pennau eu hunain sy’n ceisio lloches, sy’n eithriadol o ddiamddiffyn. Rhaid inni sicrhau y gall awdurdodau lleol ddarparu’r gofal priodol i’r plant hynny. Ymddengys eu bod wedi gwneud hynny yn ystod y flwyddyn ddiwethaf. Rhaid inni sicrhau ein bod wedi paratoi ar gyfer cynorthwyo’r plant hyn a’n bod yn barod i wneud hynny.

The amount of grant payable to an authority will be a maximum of £200 a week for each unaccompanied asylum-seeking child aged 16 or 17 and £400 a week for each unaccompanied asylum-seeking child under the age of 16. On William Graham’s point, adjustments to these amounts within the total available can be made where authorities incur expenditure at higher or lower levels, in accordance with the arrangements set out in the special grant. Although it is important that we identify the cost, we recognise that there will be needs in relation to wider complexities, as William identified, among children with special needs in Wales.

Telir grant o hyd at £200 yr wythnos i awdurdodau ar gyfer pob plentyn 16 neu 17 oed ar ei ben ei hun sy’n ceisio lloches a £400 yr wythnos ar gyfer pob plentyn o dan 16 oed ar ei ben ei hun sy’n ceisio lloches. Ar bwynt William Graham, gellir addasu’r symiau hyn o fewn y cyfanswm sydd ar gael pan fydd awdurdodau wedi gwario ar lefelau uwch neu is, yn unol â’r trefniadau a nodir yn y grant arbennig. Er ei bod yn bwysig inni nodi’r gost, yr ydym yn cydnabod y bydd anghenion mewn perthynas â chymhlethdodau ehangach, fel y nododd William, ymysg plant ag anghenion arbennig yng Nghymru.

In relation to Lorraine’s point about the definition of an unaccompanied asylum-seeking child, an asylum seeker under the age of 18 who is not living with their parent or guardian in the UK is an asylum-seeking child. An asylum-seeking child is one that is registered with the Home Office and is awaiting the outcome of an asylum application, has been granted asylum or has been given exceptional leave to remain in the UK. All the children in Cardiff have been placed with families. Not all those families include registered foster parents, but the authority is undertaking checks on all of those involved and they are being closely monitored. I will respond to Lorraine’s point on friends and family, but I do not have the information to do so today. Monitoring those children is important.

Ynglŷn â phwynt Lorraine am y diffiniad o blentyn ar ei ben ei hun sy’n ceisio lloches, mae ceisiwr lloches o dan 18 oed nad yw’n byw gyda rhiant neu warchodwr yn y DU yn blentyn sy’n ceisio lloches. Plentyn sy’n ceisio lloches yw un sydd wedi ei gofrestru gyda’r Swyddfa Gartref ac sy’n aros am ganlyniad cais am loches, sydd wedi cael lloches neu sydd wedi cael hawl arbennig i aros yn y DU. Mae pob plentyn yng Nghaerdydd wedi cael ei leoli gyda theuluoedd. Nid yw pob un o’r teuluoedd hynny yn cynnwys rhieni maeth cofrestredig, ond mae’r awdurdod yn cynnal gwiriadau o bawb sy’n rhan o’r cynllun ac maent yn cael eu monitro’n fanwl. Ymatebaf i bwynt Lorraine ynglŷn â chyfeillion a theulu, ond nid yw’r wybodaeth gennyf i wneud hynny heddiw. Mae’n bwysig monitro’r plant hyn.

On Eleanor’s point, there is a connection with the special grant report that was put forward by the Minister for Education and Lifelong Learning and discussed recently in Plenary. Under the education grant report arrangements, special grants will be made to help authorities provide educational support to asylum seekers of compulsory school age. Grants will specifically help to cover additional costs for asylum seekers entering the UK in accordance with the Immigration and Asylum Act 1999 and for those who come to Wales as a result of the Home Office’s dispersal arrangements made under the Act.

Ar bwynt Eleanor, mae cyswllt â’r adroddiad grant arbennig a gyflwynwyd gan y Gweinidog dros Addysg a Dysgu Gydol Oes a drafodwyd mewn Cyfarfod Llawn yn ddiweddar. O dan drefniadau’r adroddiad grant addysg, rhoddir grantiau arbennig i helpu awdurdodau i ddarparu cymorth addysgol i geiswyr lloches sydd o fewn oedran ysgol gorfodol. Bydd y grantiau yn rhoi help penodol i gwmpasu costau ychwanegol ar gyfer ceiswyr lloches sy’n dod i mewn i’r DU yn unol â Deddf Mewnfudo a Lloches 1999 ac ar gyfer y rhai a ddaeth i mewn i Gymru o ganlyniad i drefniadau gwasgaru’r Swyddfa Gartref a wnaed yn unol â’r Ddeddf.

I am grateful that Members have supported this in their contributions and recognised that we in Wales are taking responsibility for these unaccompanied asylum-seeking children and that we will support them financially through this special grant in the way that I have described.

Yr wyf yn falch bod yr Aelodau wedi cefnogi hyn yn eu cyfraniadau ac wedi cydnabod ein bod ni yng Nghymru yn cymryd cyfrifoldeb dros y plant hyn ar eu pennau eu hunain sy’n ceisio lloches ac y byddwn yn eu cynorthwyo’n ariannol drwy’r grant arbennig hwn yn y modd a ddisgrifiais.

DerbyniwydAdopted O blaidFor 49 YmatalAbstain 0 Yn erbynAgainst 0

Derbyniwyd y cynnig.

Motion carried.

Sut y pleidleisiodd yr AelodauHow Members voted
O blaidFor (49)
  • Lorraine Barrett
  • Mick Bates
  • Peter Black
  • Nick Bourne
  • Eleanor Burnham
  • Rosemary Butler
  • Alun Cairns
  • Christine Chapman
  • Jane Davidson
  • Andrew Davies
  • David Davies
  • Geraint Davies
  • Glyn Davies
  • Ron Davies
  • Sue Essex
  • Delyth Evans
  • Michael German
  • Brian Gibbons
  • William Graham
  • Janice Gregory
  • John Griffiths
  • Christine Gwyther
  • Brian Hancock
  • Jane Hutt
  • Pauline Jarman
  • Ann Jones
  • Carwyn Jones
  • Elin Jones
  • Gareth Jones
  • Helen Mary Jones
  • Peter Law
  • Huw Lewis
  • David Lloyd
  • Val Lloyd
  • David Melding
  • Tom Middlehurst
  • Jonathan Morgan
  • Rhodri Morgan
  • Lynne Neagle
  • Alun Pugh
  • Jenny Randerson
  • Peter Rogers
  • Janet Ryder
  • Karen Sinclair
  • Gwenda Thomas
  • Owen John Thomas
  • Rhodri Glyn Thomas
  • Dafydd Wigley
  • Kirsty Williams

Strategaeth Gofal Sylfaenol

Primary Care Strategy

John Marek The Deputy Presiding Officer spoken in English p. 43

John Marek Y Dirprwy Lywydd siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 43

I have selected amendments 1, 3, 5, 6, 7 and 8 in the name of Jocelyn Davies, and amendments 4, 9 and 10 in the name of Jonathan Morgan. I have not selected amendment 2 because it is exactly the same as amendment 1.

Yr wyf wedi dethol gwelliannau 1, 3, 5, 6, 7 ac 8 yn enw Jocelyn Davies, a gwelliannau 4, 9 a 10 yn enw Jonathan Morgan. Nid wyf wedi dewis gwelliant 2 gan ei fod yn union yr un peth â gwelliant 1.

Jane Hutt The Minister for Health and Social Services spoken in English p. 43

Jane Hutt Y Gweinidog dros Iechyd a Gwasanaethau Cymdeithasol siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 43

I propose that

Cynigiaf fod

Jane Hutt The Minister for Health and Social Services (continued) spoken in English p. 44

Jane Hutt Y Gweinidog dros Iechyd a Gwasanaethau Cymdeithasol (parhad) siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 44

I am pleased to present the primary care strategy, which was the subject of consultation last autumn. Around 178 responses were received from a wide range of respondents, confirming strong support for the key themes, concepts and objectives contained in the strategy. The detailed comments that we have received will be used to help shape the action plan to implement the strategy. This work will be further informed by a short study of general practice in England and Wales to be undertaken by the Audit Commission later this year.

Mae’n bleser gennyf gyflwyno’r strategaeth gofal sylfaenol, y cynhaliwyd ymgynghoriad arni yr hydref diwethaf. Cafwyd tua 178 o ymatebion o ystod eang o ymatebwyr, a oedd yn cadarnhau’r gefnogaeth gref i themâu, cysyniadau ac amcanion allweddol y strategaeth. Caiff y sylwadau manwl a gawsom eu defnyddio i helpu i lunio’r cynllun gweithredu i roi’r strategaeth ar waith. Caiff y gwaith hwn ei lywio hefyd gan astudiaeth fer o ymarfer cyffredinol yng Nghymru a Lloegr i’w gwneud gan y Comisiwn Archwilio yn ddiweddarach eleni.

The Welsh Assembly Government sees primary care as playing a vital part in the development of a socially, environmentally and economically sustainable Wales. The strategy will help to ensure equity of service provision, social justice and improved quality of life for all in Wales. Primary care services are the first port of call for the majority of people who use the NHS. Around 90 per cent of patients’ first experience of the health service is through primary care—it is a vital universal public service.

Mae Llywodraeth Cynulliad Cymru yn rhagweld y bydd gofal sylfaenol yn chwarae rhan hanfodol wrth ddatblygu Cymru sy’n gynaliadwy, yn gymdeithasol, yn amgylcheddol ac yn economaidd. Bydd y strategaeth yn fodd i sicrhau darpariaeth gyfartal, cyfiawnder cymdeithasol a gwell ansawdd bywyd i bawb yng Nghymru. Gwasanaethau gofal sylfaenol yw’r cyswllt cyntaf â’r GIG i’r mwyafrif o bobl sy’n ei ddefnyddio. Caiff tua 90 y cant o gleifion eu profiad cyntaf o’r gwasanaeth iechyd drwy ofal sylfaenol—mae’n wasanaeth cyhoeddus cyffredinol hanfodol.

Wales has a broadly based approach to primary care. It is at the heart of local communities, meeting people’s needs in, or as close as possible to, their homes and in the most practical and effective ways available. In future, primary care will also have a clearer focus on public health and community health development. The skills of everyone working in primary care will be used and there will be much closer working with partner organisations in the prevention of illness and in the delivery of care. This is especially important in Wales where there are unacceptable, enduring health inequalities between communities and between different social groups. Balancing the concern for the health of the whole population and a concern for the health of individual patients represents a major clinical and managerial challenge to primary care and the whole of the NHS in Wales.

Mae gan Gymru ymagwedd eang tuag at ofal sylfaenol. Mae wrth wraidd cymunedau lleol, yn diwallu anghenion pobl, yn eu cartrefi, neu mor agos â phosibl iddynt, ac yn y ffyrdd mwyaf ymarferol ac effeithiol sydd ar gael. Yn y dyfodol, bydd gan ofal sylfaenol bwyslais cliriach ar iechyd cyhoeddus a datblygu iechyd cymunedol. Caiff sgiliau pawb sy’n gweithio yn y sector gofal sylfaenol eu defnyddio a bydd cydweithio llawer agosach â sefydliadau partner i atal salwch a chyflwyno gofal. Mae hyn yn arbennig o bwysig yng Nghymru lle mae anghydraddoldebau iechyd annerbyniol yn parhau rhwng cymunedau a rhwng gwahanol grwpiau cymdeithasol. Cydbwyso iechyd y boblogaeth gyfan yn erbyn iechyd cleifion unigol yw’r prif her glinigol a rheoli i’r sector gofal sylfaenol a’r GIG cyfan yng Nghymru.

There is much to be proud of in our current primary care system and the majority of people are positive about their experiences of primary health care. The resilience of primary care services in the face of growing pressures is remarkable. Primary care has an increasingly complex workload. Patients’ expectations are higher and general practitioners and their teams are stretched trying to provide services in the surgery, at people’s homes and elsewhere. The staff that make up the service including GPs, nurses, dentists, pharmacists, optometrists, the professions allied to medicine, diagnostic support staff, administrative and ancillary staff have consistently maintained high quality services, sometimes in difficult circumstances.

Mae llawer inni ymfalchïo ynddo yn ein system gofal sylfaenol bresennol ac mae’r rhan fwyaf o bobl yn gadarnhaol am eu profiadau o ofal iechyd sylfaenol. Mae gwydnwch y gwasanaethau gofal sylfaenol yn wyneb y pwysau cynyddol yn hynod. Mae baich gwaith mwyfwy cymhleth gan y sector gofal sylfaenol. Mae gan gleifion ddisgwyliadau uwch ac mae meddygon teulu a’u timau dan bwysau wrth geisio darparu gwasanaethau yn y feddygfa, yng nghartrefi pobl ac mewn mannau eraill. Mae’r staff sy’n rhan o’r gwasanaeth gan gynnwys meddygon teulu, nyrsys, deintyddion, fferyllwyr, optometryddion, y proffesiynau sy’n gysylltiedig â meddygaeth, staff cymorth diagnostig, staff gweinyddol a chynorthwyol wedi parhau i roi gwasanaethau o safon gyson dda, weithiau o dan amgylchiadau anodd.

Staff recruitment is still difficult in some parts of Wales and a potential difficulty in others. We face challenges in the geographical and age distribution of GPs, general dental practitioners and nurses. It is still too often the case that the communities experiencing the most severe health problems are disadvantaged in relation to healthcare provision as a result of inverse care laws.

Mae’n anodd recriwtio staff mewn rhai rhannau o Gymru o hyd a bydd rhannau eraill yn wynebu anhawster o bosibl. Wynebwn heriau o ran dosbarthiad daearyddol ac oedran meddygon teulu, ymarferwyr cyffredinol deintyddol a nyrsys. Yn rhy aml, y cymunedau sy’n dioddef y problemau iechyd gwaethaf yw’r rhai o dan anfantais o ran darpariaeth gofal iechyd o hyd o ganlyniad i ddeddf gofal gwrthgyfartal.

In recognising these challenges the aim of the primary care strategy is to improve the range and quality of services to patients, reduce the workload of doctors, dentists and nurses so that they can spend more time with their patients and strengthen out of hours services. To do so, we must find new and sustainable ways of recruiting and retaining our workforce, attracting staff to the most disadvantaged areas and rewarding dedication and skill. We need to support single-handed practitioners by developing consortia of practices and introducing primary care resource centres. Alongside this, the strategy builds on a range of flexibilities to help overcome problems in the physical condition of some of our primary care premises, including grants to bridge funding gaps, guaranteed minimum sale provision, and assistance towards re-converting premises back to dwellings to enable sale. Given the attention which the strategy pays to these essential issues, I was particularly pleased to find responses to the consultation, which highlighted the contribution that the strategy will make in raising morale and improving our abilities to recruit and retain staff.

Wrth gydnabod yr heriau hyn, nod y strategaeth gofal sylfaenol yw gwella ystod ac ansawdd gwasanaethau i gleifion, lleihau baich gwaith meddygon, deintyddion a nyrsys fel y gallant dreulio mwy o amser gyda’u cleifion ac atgyfnerthu gwasanaethau ar ôl oriau gwaith. Er mwyn gwneud hyn, rhaid inni ddod o hyd i ffyrdd newydd a chynaliadwy o recriwtio a chadw ein gweithlu, denu staff i’r ardaloedd mwyaf difreintiedig a gwobrwyo ymroddiad a medr. Mae angen inni gefnogi ymarferwyr unigol drwy ddatblygu consortia o feddygfeydd a chyflwyno canolfannau adnoddau gofal sylfaenol. Ochr yn ochr â hyn, mae’r strategaeth yn adeiladu ar ystod o ddulliau hyblyg sy’n helpu i oresgyn problemau o ran cyflwr rhai o’n hadeiladau gofal sylfaenol, gan gynnwys grantiau i bontio bylchau ariannu, darpariaeth ar gyfer lleiafswm gwerthiant gwarantedig a chymorth i droi adeiladau yn anheddau eto fel y gellir eu gwerthu. O gofio’r sylw a rydd y strategaeth i’r materion hanfodol hyn, yr oeddwn yn falch iawn o weld ymatebion i’r ymgynghoriad a bwysleisiodd y cyfraniad a wna’r strategaeth i godi morâl a gwella ein gallu i recriwtio a chadw staff.

In terms of service development, the strategy shows how imaginative and creative solutions must be found to make the best use of the increasing range of diagnosis, treatment and care now possible in the community. An important theme in the strategy is the integration of all primary healthcare professionals into genuine, primary care teams and expanding these teams to include the skills and experience of other health professionals, such as professionals allied to medicine, pharmacists and optometrists.

O ran datblygu gwasanaethau, dengys y strategaeth fod yn rhaid dod o hyd i atebion creadigol er mwyn gwneud y defnydd gorau o’r ystod gynyddol o ddiagnosis, triniaeth a gofal sy’n bosibl erbyn hyn yn y gymuned. Un thema bwysig yn y strategaeth yw integreiddio pob gweithiwr proffesiynol ym maes gofal iechyd sylfaenol mewn timau gofal iechyd gwirioneddol, gan ymestyn y timau hyn i gynnwys sgiliau a phrofiadau gweithwyr iechyd proffesiynol eraill, megis gweithwyr proffesiynol sy’n gysylltiedig â meddygaeth, fferyllwyr ac optometryddion.

In this way, the strategy moves beyond provision of primary care as a GP-led service with other professionals acting in support. It envisages an approach based far more on teamwork with a full range of services equally engaged in the work of modern primary care. We have already made a start in this. I have announced an additional £3 million for primary care—last year I allocated an additional £1.1 million to this area. I have listened carefully to GPs, who say that this new money should be used to direct the initiatives to help to reduce their workload. One million pounds has been allocated to assist with measures relating to the recruitment and retention of GPs; £1 million has been allocated to encourage GPs to work co-operatively in their out of hours services; and £700,000 has been allocated to the welfare rights initiative in primary care, which we launched last year. I am determined to make an early start on developing primary care resource centres. The allocation of £200,000 to the schemes in Deeside and Blaenau Gwent last year was an important step in that direction. These areas have different problems, but good progress is being made. In Deeside, there is a need for improved premises to develop the concept of the primary care team and to house the GP co-operative. In north Gwent, there is a particular problem with GP recruitment. We are looking at new ways of working and linking with the medical school to develop a new contract to attract young GPs to the area to drive up standards of care. Once again, it is encouraging that many responses to the consultation support the vision set out in the strategy. The breadth and originality of the strategy has been recognised—it sets out bold and innovative measures—and an excellent framework for the future has been acknowledged

Yn y ffordd hon, mae’r strategaeth yn datblygu o ddarpariaeth gofal sylfaenol fel gwasanaeth sydd wedi’i lywio gan feddygon teulu gyda chymorth gweithwyr proffesiynol eraill. Mae’n rhagweld ymagwedd sy’n llawer mwy seiliedig ar waith tîm ynghyd ag ystod lawn o wasanaethau sydd hefyd yn ymgymryd â gwaith gofal sylfaenol modern. Yr ydym eisoes wedi dechrau ar y gwaith hwn. Cyhoeddais £3 miliwn ychwanegol ar gyfer gofal sylfaenol—y llynedd dyrennais £1.1 miliwn ychwanegol i’r maes hwn. Gwrandewais yn ofalus ar feddygon teulu, sy’n dweud y dylid defnyddio’r arian newydd hwn i gyfeirio’r mentrau a fydd yn helpu i leihau eu baich gwaith. Dyrannwyd £1 filiwn i gynorthwyo’r mesurau sy’n ymwneud â recriwtio a chadw meddygon teulu; dyrannwyd £1 filiwn i annog meddygon teulu i gydweithio o ran eu gwasanaethau ar ôl oriau gwaith; a dyrannwyd £700,000 i’r fenter hawliau lles mewn gofal sylfaenol, a lansiwyd gennym y llynedd. Yr wyf yn benderfynol o ddechrau’n gynnar ar ddatblygu canolfannau adnoddau gofal sylfaenol. Yr oedd dyraniad o £200,000 i gynlluniau yng Nglannau Dyfrdwy a Blaenau Gwent y llynedd yn gam pwysig i’r cyfeiriad hwnnw. Mae gan yr ardaloedd hyn broblemau gwahanol, ond gwneir cynnydd da. Yng Nglannau Dyfrdwy mae angen gwella adeiladau er mwyn datblygu’r cysyniad o dîm gofal sylfaenol a chael cartref i’r feddygfa gydweithredol. Yng ngogledd Gwent, mae problem benodol o ran recriwtio meddygon teulu. Yr ydym yn ystyried ffyrdd newydd o gydweithio a chysylltu â’r ysgol feddygol i ddatblygu contract newydd a fydd yn denu meddygon teulu ifanc i’r ardal er mwyn codi safonau gofal. Unwaith eto, mae’n galonogol nodi bod llawer o’r ymatebion i’r ymgynghoriad yn ategu’r weledigaeth a nodir yn y strategaeth. Cydnabuwyd natur eangfrydig a gwreiddioldeb y strategaeth—noda fesurau mentrus ac arloesol—a chydnabuwyd bod fframwaith ardderchog ar gyfer y dyfodol.

It is against this background that I have decided to reject all the amendments, which have been tabled by opposition parties. They fall either into the realms of the negative or simply restate matters on workforce planning, the contribution of professions allied to medicine and addressing inequalities, which are already firmly in the strategy and in our plan on improving health in Wales. Many of these matters will, moreover, be picked up and developed further in an action plan, which will follow the consultation process.

Yn erbyn y cefndir hwn penderfynais wrthod pob un o’r gwelliannau, a gyflwynwyd gan y gwrthbleidiau. Maent naill ai’n negyddol eu naws neu ond yn ailadrodd y materion sy’n ymwneud â chynllunio’r gweithlu, cyfraniad gweithwyr proffesiynol sy’n gysylltiedig â meddygaeth a mynd i’r afael ag anghydraddoldebau, sydd eisoes yn rhan bwysig o’r strategaeth ac o’n cynllun i wella iechyd yng Nghymru. At hynny bydd llawer o’r materion hyn yn cael eu nodi a’u datblygu ymhellach mewn cynllun gweithredu a fydd yn dilyn y broses ymgynghori.

The analysis, division and innovation of the strategy is just the starting point. It must now be followed by a practical plan, which sets out for the medium and long-term the work and initiatives needed to achieve our aim. This, by any comparison, is an ambitious strategy covering a 10-year period. We will turn the objectives of a primary-care led health service into a reality. It will need determined effort and will involve difficult decisions, but it is a process, to which every Assembly Member can contribute and will be proud to contribute. I have pleasure in commending it to you.

Man cychwyn yn unig yw’r dadansoddi, y dosbarthu, a’r arloesi sydd yn y strategaeth. Rhaid wrth gynllun ymarferol bellach, sy’n nodi’r gwaith a’r mentrau sydd eu hangen arnom i gyrraedd ein nod yn y tymor canolig a’r hirdymor. Mae hon, heb os, yn strategaeth uchelgeisiol sy’n cwmpasu cyfnod o 10 mlynedd. Gwnawn wireddu amcanion gwasanaeth iechyd wedi’i lywio gan ofal sylfaenol. Bydd hyn yn gofyn am ymdrech fawr ac yn golygu gwneud penderfyniadau anodd, ond mae’n broses y gall pob Aelod Cynulliad gyfrannu ati a bod yn falch o gyfrannu ati. Mae’n bleser gennyf ei hargymell ichi.

David Lloyd siaradwyd yn Gymraeg t. 48

David Lloyd spoken in Welsh p. 48

Cynigiaf y gwelliannau canlynol yn enw Jocelyn Davies. Gwelliant 1: ym mhwynt 1, dileu ‘croeaswu’r’ a gosod ‘nodi’r’ yn ei le.

I propose the following amendments in the name of Jocelyn Davies. Amendment 1: in point 1, delete ‘welcomes’ and replace with ‘notes’.

David Lloyd (parhad) siaradwyd yn Gymraeg t. 48

David Lloyd (continued) spoken in Welsh p. 48

Cynigiaf welliant 3. Dileu pwynt 2 a gosod y canlynol yn ei le:

I propose amendment 3. Delete point 2 and replace with:

David Lloyd (parhad) siaradwyd yn Gymraeg t. 48

David Lloyd (continued) spoken in Welsh p. 48

Drwy hyn, bydd Llywodraeth Cymru yn anelu at:

In this way, the Government of Wales will set out to:

Cynigiaf welliant 5. Ychwanegu’r canlynol ym mhwynt 2(b) ar ôl ‘mwy hwylus’:

I propose amendment 5. In point 2(b) after ‘services’ insert:

David Lloyd (parhad) siaradwyd yn Gymraeg t. 48

David Lloyd (continued) spoken in Welsh p. 48

Cynigiaf welliant 6. Ychwanegu’r canlynol ym mhwynt 2(c) ar ôl ‘ddatblygu gwasanaethau’:

I propose amendment 6. In point 2(c) after ‘services’ insert:

David Lloyd (parhad) siaradwyd yn Gymraeg t. 49

David Lloyd (continued) spoken in Welsh p. 49

Cynigiaf welliant 8. Ychwanegu is-bwynt newydd ar ddiwedd pwynt 2:

I propose amendment 8. At the end of point 2 add a new sub-point:

David Lloyd (parhad) siaradwyd yn Gymraeg t. 49

David Lloyd (continued) spoken in Welsh p. 49

Cynigiaf welliant 9. Ychwanegu is-bwynt newydd ar ddiwedd pwynt 2:

I propose amendment 9. At the end of point 2 add a new sub-point:

David Lloyd (parhad) siaradwyd yn Gymraeg ac yn Saesneg t. 49

David Lloyd (continued) spoken in Welsh and English p. 49

Datganaf fuddiant fel meddyg teulu a chynghorydd sir.

in Welsh I declare an interest as a GP and county councillor.

Croesawaf y ddadl bwysig hon ar ddyfodol gofal sylfaenol, sy’n brofiad cyffredin i’n pobl. Mae 90 y cant o gleifion yn cael eu trin gan ofal sylfaenol yn unig sy’n cyfrif am 10 y cant o’r costau. Yr ydym yn trafod, felly, ofal yng nghalon ein cymunedau. Y nod yw gofal sylfaenol o’r radd uchaf heb ymyrraeth ysbyty cyffredinol, sydd wedi golygu mai’r gwasanaeth iechyd gwladol Prydeinig yw’r system iechyd fwyaf cost effeithiol yn y byd. Mae cryfderau i’r system megis y berthynas glos rhwng meddyg a chlaf, delio â niferoedd yn effeithiol—ac mae’r cleifion, gan amlaf, yn hapus gyda’r gwasanaeth. Mae gwendidau amlwg hefyd megis adeiladau gwael, ansawdd amrywiol meddygon teulu, diffygion gweithredu fel tîm, a’r argyfwng recriwtio meddygon teulu—yr oedd Cymru’n brin o 130 o feddygon teulu y llynedd.

in Welsh I welcome this important debate on the future of primary care, which is a common experience for our people. Some 90 per cent of patients are treated by primary care only, which accounts for 10 per cent of the costs. We are discussing, therefore, care at the heart of our communities. The aim is primary care of the highest order without general hospital intervention, which has meant that the British national health service is the most cost effective health system in the world. There are strengths in the system, such as the close relationship between the doctor and patient, dealing with the numbers effectively—and patients are, in general, happy with the service. There are also obvious weaknesses, such as poor buildings, the varying quality of GPs, the lack of team working and the GP recruitment crisis—last year, there was a shortage of 130 GPs in Wales.

Ninety per cent of patients are dealt with entirely through primary care by GPs, practice nurses, district nurses, health visitors and physiotherapists. That accounts for about 10 per cent of total NHS costings. Health service strategies in general rarely reflect this 90 per cent to 10 per cent ratio in the balance of patients between primary and secondary care. I could spend a long time waxing lyrical about the high standard of primary care generally and how it contributes to the NHS being the most cost-effective healthcare system anywhere. However, times change, needs change, patients’ expectations change, and GPs change.

yn Saesneg Ymdrinnir â 90 y cant o gleifion yn gyfan gwbl drwy ofal sylfaenol gan feddygon teulu, nyrsys practis, nyrsys ardal, ymwelwyr iechyd a ffisiotherapyddion. Mae hynny yn cyfrif am 10 y cant o gyfanswm costau’r GIG. Yn gyffredinol, anaml y mae strategaethau’r gwasanaeth iechyd yn adlewyrchu’r gymhareb 90 y cant i 10 y cant yn y cydbwysedd rhwng cleifion gofal sylfaenol a chleifion gofal eilaidd. Gallwn dreulio oriau yn traethu’n huawdl am safon uchel gofal sylfaenol yn gyffredinol a sut y mae’n cyfrannu at y GIG fel y system gofal iechyd fwyaf effeithiol yn unlle. Fodd bynnag, mae’r oes yn newid, mae anghenion yn newid, mae disgwyliadau cleifion yn newid, ac mae meddygon teulu yn newid.

The inverse care law is alive and well. The people most in need of treatment are least likely to get it. Primary care can help to reverse this if it is developed to its full capacity. The Valleys, in particular, are characterised by poverty, deprivation, poor health and much illness, which produces a huge workload for GPs who see, on average, more than 50 patients every day. GPs in those areas are relatively poorly paid under the present contract. That is one reason why we have a GP recruitment crisis. Therefore, what is needed?

yn Saesneg Mae deddf gofal gwrthgyfartal yn fyw ac yn iach o hyd. Y bobl y mae angen triniaeth arnynt fwyaf yw’r rhai sydd leiaf tebygol o gael y driniaeth honno. Gall gofal sylfaenol helpu i wrthdroi hyn os caiff ei ddatblygu i’r eithaf. Nodweddir y Cymoedd yn arbennig, gan dlodi, amddifadedd, iechyd gwael a chryn salwch, sy’n rhoi baich enfawr ar feddygon teulu sydd, ar gyfartaledd, yn gweld dros 50 o gleifion bob dydd. Caiff meddygon teulu yn yr ardaloedd hynny dâl cymharol isel o dan y contract presennol. Dyna un rheswm pam mae argyfwng mewn recriwtio meddygon teulu. Felly, beth sydd ei angen?

I will tease out the main points from the strategy. We need to change primary care contracts to increase consultation times. GPs are paid roughly half their salary based on the number of patients registered with them, and the other half on how they treat those patients. There must be less emphasis on paying GPs according to the number of patients under their care. The salary must be less dependent on numbers so that GPs have fewer patients and more time for consultation. Obviously, the fewer patients per GP the more GPs there will be and that will help to attract and retain GPs in places such as the Valleys. That will require more than the golden hello announced today, which gives £5,000 over 30 years, which works out as an additional £150 per year.

yn Saesneg Ymdriniaf â phrif bwyntiau’r strategaeth. Mae angen newid contractau gofal sylfaenol i sicrhau amseroedd ymgynghori hwy. Mae hanner cyflog meddygon teulu yn seiliedig ar nifer y cleifion cofrestredig sydd ganddynt, ac mae’r hanner arall yn seiliedig ar sut y maent yn trin y cleifion hynny. Rhaid rhoi llai o bwyslais ar dalu meddygon teulu yn ôl nifer y cleifion yn eu gofal. Rhaid i’r cyflog fod yn llai dibynnol ar nifer y cleifion fel y bydd gan feddygon teulu lai o gleifion a mwy o amser ymgynghori. Mae’n amlwg, wrth i nifer y cleifion sydd gan bob meddyg teulu leihau, bydd nifer y meddygon teulu yn cynyddu, a bydd hyn yn helpu i ddenu a chadw meddygon teulu mewn ardaloedd fel y Cymoedd. Bydd hynny yn gofyn am fwy na’r croeso euraid a gyhoeddwyd heddiw, sy’n rhoi £5,000 dros 30 mlynedd, sef £150 ychwanegol y flwyddyn.

We need a comprehensive package using the personal medical services’ flexibilities to their full, which includes sessional options, flexible working, protected training and protected education time whereby locums are paid for so that GPs can be educated during the day rather than at the end of the day. Childcare, regular sabbaticals and imaginative personal medical services’ options need a far higher priority than the 15 per cent target in the strategy. It would be far more ambitious to create 250 salaried GP posts in Wales in the next three to five years. Creating such an ambitious target should be viewed as exciting, and planned for aggressively. An occupational health service for all primary care professionals deserves a far higher priority and is a must. Premises are poor and inadequate in many areas. Primary care cannot develop, because there is simply not the building space. Intermediate care deserves far more focus. What form will it take? How will it involve GPs, professions allied to medicine, pharmacies and dentistry, which are vital and core to the NHS? I will mention them in more detail later.

yn Saesneg Mae angen pecyn cynhwysfawr sy’n defnyddio dulliau hyblyg y gwasanaethau meddygol personol i’r eithaf, gan gynnwys opsiynau sesiynol, gweithio hyblyg, diogelu amser ar gyfer hyfforddi a dysgu drwy dalu dirprwy feddygon fel y gall meddygon teulu dderbyn hyfforddiant yn ystod y dydd yn hytrach nag yn y nos. Mae angen rhoi blaenoriaeth llawer uwch na’r targed o 15 y cant sydd yn y strategaeth i opsiynau ar gyfer gofal plant, cyfleoedd i gymryd blwyddyn sabothol yn rheolaidd a gwasanaethau meddygol personol creadigol. Byddai’n llawer mwy uchelgeisiol pe baem yn anelu at greu 250 o swyddi meddygon teulu cyflogedig yng Nghymru yn ystod y tair i bum mlynedd nesaf. Dylai creu targed uchelgeisiol o’r fath gael ei ystyried yn rhywbeth cyffrous, a dylid cynllunio ar ei gyfer mewn modd ymosodol. Mae gwasanaeth iechyd galwedigaethol ar gyfer pob gweithiwr proffesiynol gofal sylfaenol yn haeddu blaenoriaeth llawer uwch ac mae’n hanfodol. Ceir adeiladau gwael ac annigonol mewn nifer o ardaloedd. Nid oes modd datblygu gofal sylfaenol am nad oes lle ar gael ar gyfer adeiladau. Mae angen canolbwyntio llawer mwy ar ofal canolraddol. Sut y bydd hynny yn datblygu? Sut y bydd yn cynnwys meddygon teulu, gweithwyr proffesiynol sy’n gysylltiedig â meddygaeth, fferyllfeydd a deintyddiaeth sy’n hanfodol ac yn rhan ganolog o’r GIG? Soniaf am y rhain yn fanylach yn nes ymlaen.

Health promotion and population health is also vital and core, but we need the staff and the resources to do it because people are still paid to treat illness, and that is all.

yn Saesneg Mae hybu iechyd ac iechyd y boblogaeth yn hanfodol ac yn ganolog hefyd, ond mae angen y staff a’r adnoddau arnom i wneud hynny am ein bod yn parhau i dalu pobl i drin salwch, a dyna i gyd.

Finally, there is so much to do. Strategy is all very well but we urgently need the action plan. Last May, GPs voted to resign from the NHS if there was no significant change in their contract enabling them to spend more time with their patients.

yn Saesneg Yn olaf, mae cymaint i’w wneud. Mae’n hawdd iawn sôn am strategaeth ond mae angen y cynllun gweithredu arnom ar fyrder. Fis Mai diwethaf, pleidleisiodd meddygon teulu i ymddiswyddo o’r GIG os na newidiwyd eu contract yn sylweddol er mwyn iddynt allu treulio mwy o amser gyda’u cleifion.

John Marek The Deputy Presiding Officer spoken in English p. 51

John Marek Y Dirprwy Lywydd siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 51

Order. You are running out of time.

Trefn. Mae’ch amser yn dod i ben.

David Lloyd spoken in English p. 51

David Lloyd siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 51

There is a feeling that general practitioners are struggling to keep up with day-to-day calls, without having to deal with more unresourced strategies.

Y teimlad yw ei bod yn anodd i feddygon teulu ymdopi â gofynion bob dydd, heb orfod ymdopi â rhagor o strategaethau nad oes adnoddau yn gysylltiedig â hwy.

Finally, the Minister for Health and Social Services needs to re-invigorate primary care with an action plan that will deliver to improve the health of the people of Wales.

Yn olaf, mae angen i’r Gweinidog dros Iechyd a Gwasanaethau Cymdeithasol adfywio gofal sylfaenol drwy gynllun gweithredu a fydd yn llwyddo i wella iechyd pobl Cymru.

David Melding spoken in English p. 52

David Melding siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 52

I propose the following amendments in the name of Jonathan Morgan. Amendment 4: delete point 2(a) and replace with:

Cynigiaf y gwelliannau canlynol yn enw Jonathan Morgan. Gwelliant 4: dileu pwynt 2(a) a gosod y canlynol yn ei le:

David Melding (continued) spoken in English p. 52

David Melding (parhad) siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 52

I propose amendment 7. At the end of point 2(d) add:

Cynigiaf welliant 7. Ar ddiwedd pwynt 2(d), ychwanegu:

David Melding (continued) spoken in English p. 52

David Melding (parhad) siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 52

I propose amendment 10. Add as point 3 at the end of the motion:

Cynigiaf welliant 10. Ychwanegu fel pwynt 3 ar ddiwedd y cynnig:

David Melding (continued) spoken in English p. 52

David Melding (parhad) siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 52

I begin by paying tribute to the vast numbers of people involved in delivering an excellent primary care service in this country. It is probably the national health service’s greatest achievement because the model we have had since 1948 is still meeting the challenges of the modern world. There is more to be done but we should never forget that when people talk about the crisis in the national health service, they are invariably talking about the hospital sector. That will take much of our time in future because we all want to see a modern and excellent standard of service in the hospital sector, and we all know that there are deficiencies at present that we must address.

Dechreuaf drwy dalu teyrnged i’r llu o bobl sy’n rhan o’r gwaith o ddarparu gwasanaeth gofal sylfaenol ardderchog yn y wlad hon. Dyma un o gyflawniadau mwyaf y gwasanaeth iechyd gwladol gan fod y model a fu gennym ers 1948 yn parhau i ateb heriau’r byd modern. Mae llawer i’w wneud ond ni ddylem fyth anghofio mai cyfeirio at y sector ysbytai y mae pobl yn ddieithriad bron wrth sôn am yr argyfwng yn y gwasanaeth iechyd gwladol. Bydd hynny yn mynd â llawer o’n hamser yn y dyfodol am fod pob un ohonom am weld gwasanaeth modern o safon yn y sector ysbytai, a gwyddom oll fod diffygion ar hyn o bryd y mae’n rhaid inni fynd i’r afael â hwy.

On primary health, the World Health Organisation continues to rate Britain among the top three countries in the world for its level of primary healthcare, and we can all celebrate that fact because it is built on a consistent development of policy over many years, from all parties, and with the commitment of an excellent workforce. There are problems in some areas with the lack of GPs, but in most areas there is a high level of service and good access to primary care—to see a GP or practice nurse—often on the day of enquiry to the practice. In the surgery I use in Barry, it is unusual to have to wait even two days if you are prepared to see any GP rather than a specifically named GP. It is a good level of service.

O ran iechyd sylfaenol, mae Mudiad Iechyd y Byd yn parhau i nodi bod Prydain ymhlith y tair gwlad orau yn y byd o ran safon ei gofal iechyd sylfaenol, a gallwn oll ddathlu’r ffaith bod y gwasanaeth wedi’i seilio ar ddatblygiad polisi cyson dros nifer o flynyddoedd, gan bob plaid, a thrwy ymrwymiad gweithlu ardderchog. Ceir problemau mewn rhai ardaloedd oherwydd prinder meddygon teulu, ond yn y rhan fwyaf o ardaloedd ceir lefel uchel o wasanaeth a gellir cyrraedd at ofal sylfaenol yn hawdd—i weld meddyg teulu neu nyrs practis—yn aml ar yr un diwrnod y cysylltir â’r feddygfa. Yn y feddygfa a ddefnyddiaf yn y Barri, mae’n beth anghyffredin aros hyd yn oed dau ddiwrnod os ydych yn barod i weld unrhyw feddyg teulu yn hytrach na meddyg teulu penodol. Mae’n wasanaeth da.

Also, the range of services from our GP practices is increasing and is of a high standard. Consider the way it has changed the treatment of chronic diseases such as diabetes and hypertension. These are great achievements that will extend the lives and the quality of life of many people.

Hefyd, mae ystod y gwasanaethau a gynigir gan ein meddygfeydd yn cynyddu ac mae o safon uchel. Meddyliwch sut y mae wedi newid y driniaeth ar gyfer clefydau cronig megis clefyd y siwgr a phwysedd gwaed uchel. Mae’r rhain yn gyflawniadau gwych a fydd yn ymestyn bywydau a gwella ansawdd bywyd llawer o bobl.

The use of GPs as gatekeepers into secondary services remains an excellent model and one that many nations around the world would like to emulate, but they face structural difficulties because they have a different system, and find it difficult to change to our model. However, they would, if they could start from scratch, choose our model.

Mae’r defnydd a wneir o feddygon teulu i reoli mynediad i’r gwasanaethau eilaidd yn fodel rhagorol ac yn un yr hoffai llawer o wledydd ledled y byd ei efelychu, ond wynebant anawsterau strwythurol am fod ganddynt system wahanol, a’i bod yn anodd iddynt newid i’n model ni. Fodd bynnag, ein model ni y byddent yn ei ddewis pe gallent ddechrau o’r newydd.

We should also consider the role of practice nurses. Many services are now provided by the practice nurse, for example, having your blood pressure checked, or a blood test. I think that we need to encourage patients to realise that the practice nurse is a highly skilled professional, capable of giving a wide range of services to patients.

Dylem hefyd ystyried rôl nyrsys practisau. Darperir llawer o wasanaethau erbyn hyn gan y nyrs practis, er enghraifft, gwirio pwysedd gwaed, neu brofion gwaed. Credaf fod angen inni ddarbwyllo cleifion mai gweithiwr proffesiynol medrus iawn yw nyrs practis, sy’n gallu rhoi ystod eang o wasanaethau i gleifion.

There are, therefore, successes but there are also challenges. We need more GPs—I think that all the parties will agree on that—and we need more GPs in certain areas of Wales, in particular the deprived areas. We must recognise that an inverse care law operates. It is not intentional, but it exists and needs a solution.

Felly, ceir llwyddiannau ond erys heriau hefyd. Mae angen rhagor o feddygon teulu—credaf y bydd pawb yn gytûn o ran hynny—ac mae angen rhagor o feddygon teulu mewn ardaloedd penodol o Gymru, yn enwedig yn yr ardaloedd difreintiedig. Rhaid inni gydnabod bod deddf gofal gwrthgyfartal ar waith. Nid yw’n fwriadol, ond mae’n bodoli ac mae angen ateb.

On the state of the buildings, it is often in the poorer, more deprived areas that the facilities are worst, and we must take action and provide capital resources to solve that problem.

O ran cyflwr yr adeiladau, yr ardaloedd tlotaf, mwyaf difreintiedig yn aml yw’r rhai sydd â’r cyfleusterau gwaethaf, a rhaid inni weithredu a rhoi’r adnoddau cyfalaf i ddatrys y broblem.

GPs’ working conditions must be examined; times change, expectations change, and GPs will want flexible and family-friendly working hours. If we want that sort of working environment we must expect that other professionals can reasonably ask for it also. There is a definite need for longer consultation times; that is part of improving GPs’ working conditions, but above all, moving from eight-minute consultations on average to 15-minute consultations will improve the service to the patient, and that is important.

Rhaid ystyried amodau gwaith meddygon teulu; mae’r oes yn newid, mae disgwyliadau yn newid a bydd meddygon teulu am gael oriau hyblyg sy’n ystyriol o deuluoedd. Os ydym am gael amgylchedd gwaith o’r fath rhaid inni fod yn barod i dderbyn y gall gweithwyr proffesiynol ofyn am hynny’n rhesymol hefyd. Yn sicr mae angen amseroedd ymgynghori hwy hefyd; mae hynny yn rhan o’r broses o wella amodau gwaith meddygon teulu, ond yn anad dim, bydd symud o ymgynghoriadau wyth munud ar gyfartaledd i ymgynghoriadau 15 munud yn gwella’r gwasanaeth i gleifion ac mae hynny yn bwysig.

On recruitment, we face difficult choices and must make setting targets a greater priority. First, we must reach established targets on the number of general practitioners in Wales. There are probably around 100 vacancies at present. They must be filled.We need at least another 100 GPs working in Wales by around 2006 and we will need an even more ambitious target for 2010. The Minister has been somewhat dilatory on this. I know that we must wait until March, which is the latest target for a target, as it were, but I hope that we will eventually get an ambitious target.

O ran recriwtio, wynebwn ddewisiadau anodd a rhaid inni roi mwy o flaenoriaeth i bennu targedau. Yn gyntaf, rhaid inni gyrraedd y targedau penodedig o ran nifer y meddygon teulu yng Nghymru. Mae’n siŵr bod tua 100 o swyddi yn wag ar hyn o bryd. Rhaid eu llenwi. Mae angen o leiaf 100 o feddygon teulu eraill yn gweithio yng Nghymru erbyn tua 2006 a bydd angen targed mwy uchelgeisiol byth ar gyfer 2010. Mae’r Gweinidog wedi bod yn llusgo ei thraed braidd yn hyn o beth. Gwn fod yn rhaid inni aros tan fis Mawrth, sef y targed diweddaraf ar gyfer pennu targed, fel petai, ond gobeithiaf y byddwn yn y diwedd yn pennu targed uchelgeisiol.

In conclusion, the structural reforms will do nothing to help us to improve the primary healthcare sector. Organisational instability on a massive scale is before us. In this strategy, we should concentrate on improving primary care services. However, the restructuring will be an organisational revolution, turning local health boards into mini health authorities with massive responsibilities for commissioning. This is not the time to do this. It is ill-advised conceptually, but it will be a difficult challenge for these new organisations to improve the service and to become commissioners.

I gloi, ni fydd y diwygiadau strwythurol yn gwneud dim i’n helpu i wella’r sector gofal sylfaenol. Yr ydym yn wynebu ansefydlogrwydd sefydliadol ar raddfa enfawr. Yn y strategaeth hon, dylem ganolbwyntio ar wella gwasanaethau gofal sylfaenol. Fodd bynnag, chwyldro trefniannol fydd y broses ailstrwythuro, gan droi byrddau iechyd lleol yn is-awdurdodau iechyd â chyfrifoldebau sylweddol dros gomisiynu. Nid dyma’r amser gorau i wneud hyn. Mae’n annoeth fel cysyniad, ond bydd yn her anodd i’r sefydliadau newydd hyn wella’r gwasanaeth a dod yn gomisiynwyr.

As a group, we will support Plaid’s amendments, apart from amendment 6, which seems to propose some form of health action zone, which I am not prepared to support at this stage. We will abstain on that amendment.

Fel grŵp, cefnogwn welliannau Plaid Cymru, ar wahân i welliant 6, sydd yn ôl pob golwg, yn cynnig ryw fath o barth gweithredu iechyd, nad wyf yn barod i’w gefnogi ar hyn o bryd. Ymataliwn ar y gwelliant hwnnw.

John Griffiths spoken in English p. 55

John Griffiths siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 55

I welcome this 10-year primary care strategy and the forthcoming action plan to ensure effective implementation. My constituency case load continually brings home to me the vital importance of primary care and the suffering and loss of quality of life of those enduring inadequate services, and that of their families. I am sure that that is true for all Assembly Members. We must effect radical improvements as quickly as possible.

Croesawaf y strategaeth gofal sylfaenol 10 mlynedd hon a’r cynllun gweithredu arfaethedig i sicrhau y caiff ei rhoi ar waith yn effeithiol. Mae fy maich gwaith etholaethol yn fy atgoffa o hyd pa mor bwysig yw gofal sylfaenol a chymaint yw dioddefaint a diffyg ansawdd bywyd y rhai sy’n cael gwasanaethau annigonol, a’r teuluoedd. Yr wyf yn siŵr bod hynny yn wir am bob Aelod o’r Cynulliad. Rhaid inni wneud gwelliannau radical mor fuan â phosibl.

An essential part of the strategy is sustainable recruitment and retention of our national health service workforce. Key to that is the expansion of medical training. The Royal Gwent Hospital in Newport has played, is playing, and will play a vital role in that. It has provided invaluable assistance to the University of Wales College of Medicine for decades, in taking many students for practical training on the wards. To build on and expand that contribution, the Gwent Healthcare NHS Trust has exciting proposals for a Gwent clinical school with a new training institute alongside the Royal Gwent Hospital. That would be a great help to medical training in Wales and would recognise the important role played by the hospital over many years, as well as providing a tremendous boost to healthcare in the whole of Gwent.

Un rhan annatod o’r strategaeth yw recriwtio a chadw gweithlu ein gwasanaeth iechyd gwladol mewn modd cynaliadwy. Yr allwedd i hynny yw ehangu hyfforddiant meddygol. Mae Ysbyty Brenhinol Gwent yng Nghasnewydd wedi chwarae, ac yn parhau i chwarae, rôl hanfodol yn hynny o beth. Mae wedi rhoi cymorth amhrisiadwy i Goleg Meddygol Prifysgol Cymru ers degawdau, wrth dderbyn nifer fawr o fyfyrwyr am hyfforddiant ymarferol ar y wardiau. Er mwyn adeiladu ar y cyfraniad hwnnw ac ychwanegu ato, mae gan Ymddiriedolaeth GIG Gofal Iechyd Gwent gynigion cyffrous ar gyfer ysgol glinigol i Went ynghyd â sefydliad hyfforddi newydd ochr yn ochr ag Ysbyty Brenhinol Gwent. Byddai hynny o gymorth mawr o ran hyfforddiant meddygol yng Nghymru, a byddai’n cydnabod y rôl bwysig y mae’r ysbyty wedi’i chwarae dros flynyddoedd lawer, yn ogystal â rhoi hwb mawr i ofal iechyd drwy Went gyfan.

The emphasis on enhanced NHS research and development is also important. There are examples of valuable work in Wales and of what it can achieve. Cancer presents enormous and grave challenges in Wales. Stomach cancer is now the second most common cancer worldwide. The mortality rate in Wales is around 50 per cent worse than that of the UK as a whole. However, significant progress has been made at the Royal Gwent Hospital in Newport, for example, over the last five years, in adopting and modifying successful surgical techniques to increase five-year survival rates from 11 to 56 per cent. That work has achieved international recognition. Further, more ambitious research is now proposed. It is the subject of a request for modest Assembly funding to allow the project to proceed. I hope that that request will be granted.

Mae’r pwyslais ar ragor o waith ymchwil a datblygu yn y GIG hefyd yn bwysig. Ceir enghreifftiau o waith gwerthfawr yng Nghymru ac o’r hyn y gellir ei gyflawni. Mae canser yn cynnig heriau mawr a difrifol yng Nghymru. Canser y stumog yw’r canser mwyaf cyffredin ond un ar draws y byd erbyn hyn. Mae’r gyfradd marwolaethau yng Nghymru tua 50 y cant yn waeth na’r gyfradd ar gyfer y DU gyfan. Fodd bynnag, gwnaed cynnydd sylweddol yn Ysbyty Brenhinol Gwent yng Nghasnewydd, er enghraifft, yn ystod y pum mlynedd diwethaf, wrth fabwysiadu ac addasu technegau llawdriniaeth llwyddiannus gan godi’r cyfraddau goroesi ar ôl pum mlynedd o 11 y cant i 56 y cant. Cydnabuwyd y gwaith hwnnw yn rhyngwladol. Bwriedir gwneud gwaith ymchwil pellach, mwy uchelgeisiol yn awr a gwnaed cais am swm cymharol fach o arian gan y Cynulliad a fydd yn caniatáu i’r prosiect fynd yn ei flaen. Gobeithiaf y bydd y Cynulliad yn cytuno ar y cais hwnnw.

In conclusion, the national health service in Wales badly needs radical improvement. However, we all know that the staff—doctors, nurses, porters, cleaners, catering staff, administrators and others—do sterling work week in, week out. We all see that in our visits to hospitals, GPs’ surgeries, other clinical surgeries and so on. The examples that I have mentioned of how the Royal Gwent Hospital is contributing, and can contribute further, to medical training, and research and development demonstrate that the national health service in Wales is eager to work in partnership with the Assembly and others. It is eager to support those working in the service to help bring about the improvements that we all know are badly needed. I welcome this primary care strategy, Dirprwy Lywydd, as well as the forthcoming action plan to ensure effective implementation. I congratulate Jane on coming forward with these strategies.

I gloi, mae angen difawr am welliannau sylweddol ar y gwasanaeth iechyd gwladol yng Nghymru. Fodd bynnag, gwyddom oll fod y staff—y meddygon teulu, y nyrsys, y porthorion, y glanhawyr, y staff arlwyo, y gweinyddwyr ac eraill—yn gwneud gwaith gwych o wythnos i wythnos. Mae pob un ohonom yn gweld hynny wrth ymweld ag ysbytai, meddygfeydd, a chanolfannau clinigol eraill ac ati. Dengys yr enghreifftiau a grybwyllais o sut y mae Ysbyty Brenhinol Gwent yn cyfrannu, ac yn gallu cyfrannu ymhellach, i hyfforddiant meddygol, ac i waith ymchwil a datblygu, fod y gwasanaeth iechyd gwladol yng Nghymru yn awyddus i weithio mewn partneriaeth gyda’r Cynulliad ac eraill. Mae’n awyddus i gefnogi’r rhai sy’n gweithio yn y gwasanaeth i helpu i wneud y gwelliannau sydd eu hangen yn ddirfawr, fel y gwyddom oll. Croesawaf y strategaeth gofal sylfaenol hon, Ddirprwy Lywydd, yn ogystal â’r cynllun gweithredu arfaethedig i sicrhau y caiff ei rhoi ar waith yn effeithiol. Llongyfarchaf Jane ar gyflwyno’r strategaethau hyn.

Geraint Davies spoken in English p. 56

Geraint Davies siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 56

I declare an interest as a pharmacist and a member of Rhondda Cynon Taff County Borough Council.

Datganaf fuddiant fel fferyllydd ac aelod o Gyngor Bwrdeistref Sirol Rhondda Cynon Taf.

It could be argued that primary care is the most important care provided by the NHS. As Dai Lloyd said, 90 per cent of all health services fall into this sector. It is the gateway—or in some cases, the obstacle—to receiving secondary or tertiary care. We recently had good news in Wales on cancer care, with the reduction in the waiting time for a first appointment with a specialist. Yet, to many patients in my constituency, that statistic is irrelevant. Patients must wait up to a month to see their general practitioner in the first instance, before even considering seeing a specialist. Health inequalities develop quicker with deficient primary healthcare than at any other level of healthcare.

Gellid dadlau mai gofal sylfaenol yw’r gofal pwysicaf a ddarperir gan y GIG. Fel y dywedodd Dai Lloyd, mae tua 90 y cant o’r holl wasanaethau iechyd o fewn y sector hwn. Mae’n fynediad—neu mewn rhai achosion—yn rhwystr i ofal eilaidd neu drydyddol. Cawsom newyddion da yng Nghymru yn ddiweddar ynglŷn â gofal canser, yn sgîl y gostyngiad yn yr amser aros ar gyfer apwyntiad cyntaf gydag arbenigwr. Eto, i lawer o gleifion yn fy etholaeth mae’r ystadegyn hwnnw yn ddibwys. Rhaid i gleifion aros am hyd at fis i weld eu meddyg teulu yn y lle cyntaf, cyn hyd yn oed ystyried gweld llawfeddyg. Mae anghydraddoldebau iechyd yn datblygu’n gyflymach ym maes gofal iechyd sylfaenol nag ar unrhyw haen arall o ofal iechyd.

Health inequalities are reflected in the appalling health statistics of the south Wales Valleys. In the Rhondda, the standard mortality rate is 189, when the norm is 100. If you are a male living in the Rhondda, do not expect to reach the Bible’s three score years and 10. Similarly, if you are a female resident, you can expect to die six years younger than your sister in Cowbridge.

Adlewyrchir anghydraddoldebau iechyd yn ystadegau iechyd ofnadwy Cymoedd y De. Yn y Rhondda, 189 yw’r gyfradd marwolaethau safonol, ond y norm yw 100. Os ydych yn ddyn sy’n byw yn y Rhondda, nid ydych yn disgwyl cyrraedd oes yr addewid. Yn yr un modd, os ydych yn fenyw, gallwch ddisgwyl marw chwe blynedd yn iau na’ch chwaer yn y Bont-faen.

What can we do? Perhaps most important is a massive recruitment of health professionals, before it is too late. In my constituency, 50 per cent of doctors are due to retire within five years. In a recent meeting, they explained their classic catch-22 situation. Several of them are retiring early, primarily due to being overworked. The remaining GPs will be even more overworked, and no doubt will retire even earlier, and so on ad infinitum with professionals and systems stretched to breaking point.

Beth y gallwn ei wneud? Efallai y peth pwysicaf yw recriwtio gweithwyr proffesiynol iechyd ar raddfa fawr, cyn ei bod yn rhy hwyr. Yn fy etholaeth i, bydd 50 y cant o feddygon yn ymddeol ymhen pum mlynedd. Mewn cyfarfod diweddar, bu iddynt esbonio eu cyfyng-gyngor clasurol. Mae sawl un am ymddeol yn gynnar, yn bennaf am fod gormod o waith. Bydd y meddygon teulu sy’n weddill yn gorfod gwneud mwy o waith byth, ac yn anochel byddant am ymddeol hyd yn oed yn gynharach, ac yn y blaen heb ddiwedd gan roi gweithwyr proffesiynol a systemau o dan bwysau annioddefol.

In the Rhondda, GPs feel that the only way that they can cope is by stopping Saturday morning surgeries. In Gwent Health Authority, no fewer than five practices are currently being run without permanent GPs, with a real danger that people will soon have no access to a family doctor. Now is the time to recruit—soon it will be too late. The £5,000 sweetener is merely a token gesture. It is far more important and beneficial in the long term to give doctors the right conditions of service in well-equipped premises.

Yn y Rhondda, teimla’r meddygon teulu mai’r unig ffordd o ymdopi yw rhoi’r gorau i weld cleifion fore dydd Sadwrn. Yn Awdurdod Iechyd Gwent, mae pum meddygfa i gyd nad oes ganddynt feddygon teulu parhaol ac mae perygl gwirioneddol yno na fydd meddyg teulu ar gael i bobl o gwbl cyn bo hir. Dyma’r amser i recriwtio—bydd yn rhy hwyr cyn bo hir. Symbol yn unig yw’r £5,000 a roddwyd i’w denu. Mae’n llawer mwy pwysig a buddiol yn yr hirdymor inni roi amodau gwasanaeth priodol mewn meddygfeydd ag offer da i feddygon.

We need to extend the salaried option—by far the most popular choice with young doctors—if we are to retain the next generation of GPs. We also need to explore sponsorship options, whereby money given by national governments to local authorities can be used to sponsor GPs.

Mae angen inni ymestyn yr opsiwn i fod yn feddyg cyflogedig—y dewis mwyaf poblogaidd o bell ffordd ymhlith meddygon ifanc—er mwyn inni gadw’r to sy’n codi. Mae angen hefyd ystyried opsiynau ar gyfer noddi, lle y gellir defnyddio’r arian a roddir gan lywodraethau cenedlaethol i awdurdodau lleol i noddi meddygon teulu.

Another scandal in many Valley towns and villages is the state of the surgeries. Investment is needed to ensure suitable facilities and equipment. It is simply unacceptable for doctors to practise from the front rooms of houses in the twenty-first century. A particular problem, due in part to low rental levels making schemes financially unviable, is the development of primary care facilities in deprived areas. For example, a much-needed primary care facility in my constituency has been delayed for over two years because of red tape.

Sgandal arall mewn llawer o drefi a phentrefi’r Cymoedd yw cyflwr y meddygfeydd. Mae angen buddsoddi er mwyn sicrhau cyfleusterau a chyfarpar addas. Mae’n gwbl annerbyniol i feddygon ymarfer o ystafelloedd blaen tai yn yr unfed ganrif ar hugain. Un broblem arbennig, yn rhannol am fod lefel isel rhenti yn gwneud y cynlluniau yn ariannol-ymarferol, yw datblygu cyfleusterau gofal sylfaenol mewn ardaloedd difreintiedig. Er enghraifft, bu oedi cyn cyflwyno cyfleuster gofal sylfaenol yr oedd ei angen yn ddirfawr yn fy etholaeth am dros ddwy flynedd oherwydd biwrocratiaeth.

Peter Black spoken in English p. 58

Peter Black siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 58

I am grateful to Geraint for giving way. We all recognise the problems that you describe. Can you tell us the exact amount of money that Plaid Cymru will invest in providing the facilities that you want?

Yr wyf yn ddiolchgar i Geraint am ildio. Yr ydym oll yn cydnabod y problemau a ddisgrifir gennych. A allwch ddweud wrthym faint o arian yn union y bydd Plaid Cymru yn ei fuddsoddi i ddarparu’r cyfleusterau sydd eu hangen arnoch?

Geraint Davies spoken in English p. 58

Geraint Davies siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 58

I have the precise figures and I will write to you.

Mae’r ffigurau manwl-gywir gennym a byddaf yn ysgrifennu atoch.

The strategy mentions multi-purpose primary care resource centres, and acknowledges the vital role of other professionals, such as pharmacists, in tackling health problems. This is a good idea, but one that is worthless without concrete plans. Where will these centres be? How many of them will we have? When will they be set up?

Mae’r strategaeth yn cyfeirio at ganolfannau adnoddau gofal sylfaenol amlbwrpas ac yn cydnabod rôl hollbwysig y gweithwyr proffesiynol eraill, megis fferyllwyr, i fynd i’r afael â phroblemau iechyd. Mae hwn yn syniad da, ond mae’n ddiwerth heb gynlluniau pendant. Ble bydd y canolfannau hyn? Faint ohonynt fydd? Pryd y cânt eu sefydlu?

The Assembly is good at gathering facts and figures about Wales, but is not as good at acting effectively on that information. We need to target resources geographically to eradicate health inequalities. We must make it our priority to tackle the ultimate problem of social exclusion—premature death.

Mae’r Cynulliad yn dda am gasglu ffeithiau a ffigurau am Gymru, nid yw cystal am weithredu’n effeithiol yn unol â’r wybodaeth honno. Mae angen inni dargedu adnoddau yn ddaearyddol i ddileu anghydraddoldebau iechyd. Rhaid inni roi blaenoriaeth i fynd i’r afael â phroblem bennaf allgáu cymdeithasol—marwolaethau cynamserol.

Kirsty Williams spoken in English p. 58

Kirsty Williams siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 58

I thank the Minister for bringing forward this debate on a plan that will radically, and rightly, shift the emphasis and attention onto what has always been the reality of healthcare provision in Wales. The strategy begins to make a reality the idea that a primary-care driven service will be the key to improving the health of people in Wales. The Health and Social Services Committee stated that at its conception and we now see the steps that will take us there.

Diolchaf i’r Gweinidog am gyflwyno’r ddadl hon ar gynllun a fydd yn newid y pwyslais mewn ffordd radical, a hynny’n gwbl briodol, i’r hyn a fu erioed yn realiti darpariaeth gofal iechyd yng Nghymru. Mae’r strategaeth yn dechrau gwireddu’r syniad mai gwasanaeth wedi’i lywio gan ofal sylfaenol fydd yr allwedd i wella iechyd pobl Cymru. Nododd y Pwyllgor Iechyd a Gwasanaethau Cymdeithasol hynny o’r dechrau a gwelwn bellach y camau a fydd yn ein tywys yno.

I am disappointed that Plaid Cymru and the Conservative Party feel that they are only able to note a strategy that has been welcomed warmly by the British Medical Association, the Royal College of Nursing, the Chartered Society of Physiotherapy, other organisations and the 167 people who responded. We can truly welcome it.

Yr wyf yn siomedig bod Plaid Cymru a’r Blaid Geidwadol yn teimlo na allant ond nodi strategaeth a gafodd dderbyniad cynnes gan y Gymdeithas Feddygol Brydeinig, Coleg Brenhinol y Nyrsys, Cymdeithas Siartredig y Ffisiotherapyddion, mudiadau eraill a’r 167 o bobl a ymatebodd. Gallwn yn wir ei chroesawu.

There are two key areas that the strategy addresses. The first is staffing: we must make NHS Cymru an attractive organisation in which to work. It must offer a career that is challenging and rewarding and that utilises people’s skills, rather than exhausting and frustrating them, leaving them at the end of their tether and praying for retirement. This administration is already taking the first step by making more training places available, not just to medics, but also to nurses and professions allied to medicine.

Mae dau faes allweddol yr ymdrinnir â hwy gan y strategaeth. Y cyntaf yw staffio: rhaid inni sicrhau bod GIG Cymru yn sefydliad deniadol i weithio ynddo. Rhaid iddo gynnig gyrfa sy’n ymestyn ac yn gwobrwyo pobl ac un sy’n defnyddio eu sgiliau, yn hytrach na’u blino a’u rhwystro, gan beri iddynt deimlo eu bod ar ben eu tennyn a pheri iddynt ddyheu am ymddeol. Mae’r weinyddiaeth hon eisoes yn cymryd y cam cyntaf i sicrhau bod mwy o leoedd hyfforddiant ar gael, nid yn unig i feddygon, ond hefyd i nyrsys a’r proffesiynau sy’n gysylltiedig â meddygaeth.

We are moving in the right direction with regard to opening up salaried options and I agree with Geraint that they are particularly relevant when you consider the demographic changes occurring in recruiting doctors. It is becoming a predominantly female job. Women want the flexibility of a salaried option which their predecessors did not look for. Golden hellos have been announced today. However, we cannot ignore—and previous speakers have ignored this—the crucial issue of out-of-hours services. For the general practitioners in my area, the lack of an out-of-hours service in south Powys is driving them to the brink. We must find ways of encouraging co-operation among GPs and supporting those arrangements. Another crucial area, in which we do not have sole control, is the contracts. Unless we get the contract negotiations right, we will see a flood of retirement and a dearth of people wanting to come in. However, the Assembly cannot do that on its own. We must collaborate throughout the UK to sort out the issue of GP contracts.

Yr ydym yn symud i’r cyfeiriad iawn o ran ymestyn yr opsiynau i fod yn feddyg cyflogedig a chytunaf â Geraint eu bod yn berthnasol iawn o ystyried y newidiadau demograffig a geir wrth recriwtio meddygon. Mae’n dod yn fwyfwy yn swydd i ferched. Mae merched am gael hyblygrwydd yr opsiwn o fod yn gyflogedig, rhywbeth nad oedd eu rhagflaenwyr yn ei ddisgwyl. Cyhoeddwyd manylion am y croeso euraid heddiw. Fodd bynnag, ni allwn anwybyddu—ac anwybyddwyd hyn gan siaradwyr blaenorol—mater hollbwysig gwasanaethau ar ôl oriau gwaith. Yn achos meddygon teulu yn fy ardal i, mae bron â mynd i’r pen arnynt oherwydd diffyg y gwasanaethau ar ôl oriau gwaith yn ne Powys. Rhaid inni ddod o hyd i ffyrdd o annog meddygon teulu i gydweithredu a chefnogi’r trefniadau hyn. Un maes hollbwysig arall, nad ydym yn gallu ei reoli’n llwyr, yw’r contractau. Os na sicrhawn fod negodiadau’r contractau yn iawn, gwelwn lif o bobl yn ymddeol a phrinder pobl sydd am ddod i mewn. Fodd bynnag, ni all y Cynulliad wneud hynny ar ei ben ei hun. Rhaid inni gydweithredu ar draws y DU i ymdrin â mater contractau meddygon teulu.

However, it is not all about GPs. I particularly welcome the emphasis in the strategy on expanding the role of nurses. One of the best examples I have seen of the difference that primary care can make is in my constituency, where district nurses go to a 13-year-old cancer sufferer’s home and provide his chemotherapy at home. They were specifically trained to do that by staff at Llandough hospital. Their skill enables the child to be treated at home, rather than making a 50-mile trip to Llandough, near Cardiff, for his treatment. That shows what nurses can do in the community, with the right training and encouragement. I particularly welcome the emphasis placed on that. However, we must be mindful, Minister, that in taking this debate forward and reviewing their role, it must be a nurse-led initiative. It should not be dictated by us, the politicians, or by civil servants in Cathays Park.

Fodd bynnag, nid meddygon teulu yn unig sydd dan sylw. Croesawaf yn arbennig y pwyslais yn y strategaeth ar ymestyn rôl nyrsys. Mae un o’r enghreifftiau gorau a welais o’r gwahaniaeth y gall gofal sylfaenol ei wneud yn fy etholaeth i, lle mae nyrsys ardal yn mynd i gartref plentyn 13 oed â chanser arno ac yn rhoi triniaeth gemotherapi iddo yno. Cawsant hyfforddiant penodol i wneud hynny gan staff ysbyty Llandochau. Oherwydd eu medrusrwydd hwy gall y plentyn gael ei drin gartref, yn hytrach na gorfod teithio 50 milltir i Landochau, ger Caerdydd, am driniaeth. Dengys hynny yr hyn y gall nyrsys ei wneud yn y gymuned, os cânt eu hyfforddi’n briodol a’u hannog. Croesawaf yn arbennig y pwyslais ar hynny. Fodd bynnag, rhaid inni ofalu, Weinidog, wrth ddatblygu’r maes hwn ac adolygu eu rôl, mai menter wedi’i llywio gan nyrsys ydyw. Ni ddylid gael ei gorfodi gennym ni, y gwleidyddion, na chan weision sifil ym Mharc Cathays.

The same is true for the professions allied to medicine: we must fully utilise their skills and enhance their role in a proper primary healthcare team. Let us face it, we have paid lip service to that team up to now. We have talked about it but, for many professions allied to medicine and nurses in the field, it has not been a reality. We must change mindsets in the primary healthcare sector, as well as changing policies. We must change mindsets to ensure that professions allied to medicine are fully utilised. They can improve access issues and outcomes for patients.

Mae hyn yn wir hefyd am y proffesiynau sy’n gysylltiedig â meddygaeth: rhaid inni fanteisio ar eu sgiliau i’r eithaf a gwella eu rôl o fewn tîm gofal iechyd sylfaenol priodol. Pe baem yn onest, esgus cefnogi’r tîm hwnnw a wnaethom hyd yma. Yr ydym wedi siarad amdano, ond nid yw wedi’i wireddu i lawer o broffesiynau sy’n gysylltiedig â meddygaeth a nyrsys yn y maes. Rhaid inni newid meddylfryd pobl yn y sector gofal iechyd sylfaenol, yn ogystal â newid polisïau. Rhaid inni newid meddylfryd pobl i sicrhau ein bod yn manteisio ar y proffesiynau sy’n gysylltiedig â meddygaeth i’r eithaf. Gallant ei gwneud yn haws i gleifion gael gafael ar wasanaethau a gwella canlyniadau i gleifion.

If we get the staffing right, we will solve the problem of access—which is key to patients—and the quality of service, which we have not discussed fully. We must begin to batten down the hatches on quality; we have clinical governance agendas driving forward in secondary and tertiary care, but we have not done that to the same extent in the primary care sector. We do offer good service but we need to ensure that that is properly audited and that patients know that they are getting the very best.

Os llwyddwn o ran materion staffio, byddwn yn datrys problem mynediad—sy’n allweddol i gleifion—ac ansawdd y gwasanaeth nad ydym wedi’i drafod yn llawn eto. Rhaid inni ddechrau bwrw iddi o ran ansawdd: mae gennym agendâu rheolaeth glinigol ar waith ym maes gofal eilaidd a thrydyddol, ond nid ydym wedi datblygu hynny i’r un graddau yn y sector gofal sylfaenol. Cynigiwn wasanaeth da ond mae angen inni sicrhau y caiff ei archwilio’n briodol a bod cleifion yn gwybod eu bod yn cael y gwasanaeth gorau posibl.

I am sorry that David had to take a sideswipe at the partnership Government’s structural reform proposals. Reorganisation at any time is not particularly welcome within the service. I daresay it was the same, David, when, to quote you, ‘the Byzantine tangle’ of structural vandalism perhaps executed by the creation of the internal market in primary care was a prime example.

Mae’n drueni bod David wedi gorfod ymosod ar gynigion y Llywodraeth bartneriaeth ar gyfer diwygio strwythurol. Nid yw ad-drefnu unrhyw bryd o fewn y gwasanaeth yn dderbyniol iawn. Yr oedd yr un peth yn wir, mae’n siŵr, pan gafwyd, yn eich geiriau chi, David, ‘ddryswch Bysantaidd’ y fandaliaeth strwythurol a gyflawnwyd o bosibl yn sgîl creu’r farchnad fewnol ym maes gofal sylfaenol.

John Marek The Deputy Presiding Officer spoken in English p. 61

John Marek Y Dirprwy Lywydd siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 61

Order. You have had five minutes.

Trefn. Yr ydych wedi cael pum munud.

Kirsty Williams spoken in English p. 61

Kirsty Williams siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 61

Perhaps the Conservative Party has learnt from that. My GPs welcome the ending of the doctor versus doctor environment, health authority versus health authority, and trust versus trust. The reality of the structural reforms is that we are paving—

Efallai fod y Blaid Geidwadol wedi dysgu o hynny. Mae fy meddygon teulu yn croesawu’r penderfyniad i roi terfyn ar sefyllfa lle mae meddyg yn erbyn meddyg, awdurdod iechyd yn erbyn awdurdod iechyd ac ymddiriedolaeth yn erbyn ymddiriedolaeth. Realiti’r digwyddiadau yw ein bod yn paratoi’r ffordd—

John Marek The Deputy Presiding Officer spoken in English p. 61

John Marek Y Dirprwy Lywydd siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 61

Order. Please finish now.

Trefn. A wnewch orffen yn awr.

Kirsty Williams spoken in English p. 61

Kirsty Williams siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 61

I will finish now. I have been away for so long and am frustrated that I have not been able to take part in this debate.

Gorffennaf yn awr. Bûm yn absennol ers cymaint o amser ac yr wyf yn rhwystredig am nad oeddwn mewn sefyllfa i gymryd rhan yn y ddadl hon.

We are paving the way for a patient-led, locally delivered, accountable, primary-care driven NHS. That is what the Tory internal market failed to achieve, and is what these structural reforms will do.

Yr ydym yn paratoi’r ffordd ar gyfer GIG sydd wedi’i arwain gan gleifion, wedi’i ddarparu’n lleol, yn atebol ac wedi’i lywio gan ofal sylfaenol. Dyna’r hyn y methodd marchnad fewnol y Torïaid â’i gyflawni, a dyna’r hyn a gyflawna’r diwygiadau strwythurol hyn.

Alun Cairns spoken in English p. 61

Alun Cairns siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 61

I will endeavour to keep my comments brief to give more people the opportunity to contribute.

Ceisiaf wneud sylwadau byr er mwyn rhoi cyfle i ragor o bobl gyfrannu.

There are different problems in the health service at the widest possible level, from longer-term objectives to the unacceptably high levels of waiting lists. I do not want to use the political rhetoric to which Kirsty Williams resorted in terms of highlighting the significance of those high levels of waiting lists, but I could certainly develop that further if I wanted to. Deprived communities, and the poor health seen in those communities, partly contribute to the shortage of doctors on two fronts. First, it is difficult to recruit to those more deprived areas, and secondly the need for medical support and attention requires more doctors to treat those deprived communities. So there is a double whammy.

Mae gwahanol broblemau yn y gwasanaeth iechyd ar y lefel fwyaf bosibl, o’r amcanion tymor hwy i’r rhestrau aros sy’n annerbyniol o hir. Nid wyf am droi at y rhethreg wleidyddol a ddefnyddiodd Kirsty wrth nodi arwyddocâd y rhestrau aros hir iawn hynny, ond yn sicr gallwn ddatblygu hynny ymhellach pe dymunwn. Mae cymunedau difreintiedig, a’r iechyd gwael a welwn yn y cymunedau hynny, yn cyfrannu’n rhannol i’r prinder meddygon am ddau reswm. Yn gyntaf, mae’n anodd recriwtio meddygon i’r ardaloedd mwyaf difreintiedig hynny, ac yn ail oherwydd yr amgen am gymorth a sylw meddygol mae angen mwy o feddygon i drin y cymunedau difreintiedig hynny. Felly ceir ergyd ddeufin.

As has already been said by several speakers, the GP is the first point of contact for any patient seeking support from the national health service. Therefore, because of the higher levels of waiting lists—or whatever the problem may be—the GP is the person who must take the brunt of that as the first point of contact, which is a significant stress factor in the working conditions of general practitioners. That is the wider level of problems. At a much more local, or immediate, level of problems relating particularly to primary care, are the unnecessary levels of bureaucracy; the poor state and condition of our surgery buildings; the lack of time to discuss patients’ complaints in order to undertake proper investigation—giving the necessary job satisfaction—and to explore complaints and hopefully to lead them to a successful conclusion. This, in general, means poor working conditions for general practitioners.

Fel y dywedodd sawl siaradwr eisoes, meddygon teulu yw’r man cyswllt cyntaf i unrhyw glaf sy’n ceisio cymorth gan y gwasanaeth iechyd gwladol. Felly, oherwydd y rhestrau aros hwy—neu beth bynnag yw’r broblem—meddygon teulu sy’n gorfod dwyn baich hynny fel y man cyswllt cyntaf, sy’n rhoi straen sylweddol ar feddygon teulu o ran amodau gwaith. Dyna’r problemau mwy cyffredinol. O ran problemau mwy lleol, neu uniongyrchol, sy’n gysylltiedig â gofal sylfaenol yn benodol mae’r fiwrocratiaeth ddiangen, cyflwr gwael ein meddygfeydd; prinder amser i drafod anhwylderau cleifion er mwyn eu harchwilio’n briodol—sy’n rhoi boddhad iddynt yn eu swyddi sydd ei angen—ac ymchwilio i gwynion gan arwain at gasgliad llwyddiannus, gobeithio. Mae hyn, yn gyffredinol, yn golygu amodau gwaith gwael i feddygon teulu.

Bearing in mind those problems, will £5,000 make a difference? On a positive note, this is a step in the right direction. It will make a difference in some communities—

O gofio’r problemau hynny, a wnaiff £5,000 newid pethau? Ar nodyn cadarnhaol, mae hwn yn gam i’r cyfeiriad iawn. Bydd yn gwneud gwahaniaeth mewn rhai cymunedau—

Kirsty Williams spoken in English p. 62

Kirsty Williams siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 62

Will you outline what measures the previous Conservative Government introduced to encourage GPs to settle in these areas? I am racking my brains and I cannot think of any. Perhaps you could remind me.

A wnewch chi nodi’r mesurau a gyflwynwyd gan y Llywodraeth Geidwadol flaenorol i annog meddygon teulu i fynd i’r ardaloedd hynny? Yr wyf yn crafu fy mhen ac ni allaf gofio’r un. Efallai y gallech fy atgoffa ohonynt.

Alun Cairns spoken in English p. 62

Alun Cairns siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 62

GP fundholding was a massive success. A majority of surgeries and general practitioners opted, or chose, to become GP fundholders, in contrast to the enforced measures under this administration. Furthermore, all the other parties opposed local pay bargaining for nurses. However, this is a glorified measure of local pay bargaining for general practitioners in that they are prepared to award different levels of salaries in some areas, compared with others. I remember the rhetoric from the other parties which opposed that measure, but which are prepared to introduce it under a different title.

Bu cronfeydd meddygon teulu yn llwyddiant mawr. Dewisodd y rhan fwyaf o feddygfeydd a meddygon teulu ddod yn ddeiliaid cronfa, yn wahanol i’r mesurau a orfodwyd arnynt o dan y weinyddiaeth hon. Ar ben hynny, gwrthododd pob un o’r pleidiau eraill fargeinio tâl lleol ar gyfer nyrsys. Fodd bynnag, math o fargeinio tâl lleol i feddygon teulu yw’r mesur hwn yn yr ystyr eu bod yn barod i roi gwahanol gyflogau mewn rhai ardaloedd; o’u cymharu ag eraill. Yr wyf yn cofio rhethreg y pleidiau eraill a wrthwynebodd y mesur hwnnw, ond maent yn barod i’w gyflwyno o dan enw arall.

I will focus now on consultation times, because that without doubt is the greatest inhibitor in terms of attracting general practitioners to some of the more deprived areas. It is almost a time bomb waiting to explode. If any of the medical governing bodies insisted that their professionals increased the consultation time from, I think, seven minutes as it stands now, to the desired 15 minutes, what difference would that make not only to getting on to the waiting lists as we now measure them but to getting on to the waiting lists that will be introduced to see a GP? The strategy would ultimately lead to the creation of a waiting list to see the GP and to a waiting list to see the consultant before the patient reaches the waiting list for the operation. A triple whammy.

Canolbwyntiaf yn awr ar amseroedd ymgynghori, am mai’r rheini heb os yw’r rhwystr mwyaf i ddenu meddygon teulu i’r ardaloedd mwyaf difreintiedig. Mae bron â bod yn fom amser sy’n aros i ffrwydro. Pe bai unrhyw un o’r cyrff llywodraethu meddygol yn mynnu bod eu gweithwyr proffesiynol yn ymestyn yr amser ymgynghori o saith munud, fel y saif ar hyn o bryd, i’r 15 munud a ddymunir, pa wahaniaeth fyddai hynny yn ei wneud nid yn unig o ran cyrraedd y rhestrau aros fel yr ydym yn eu mesur bellach, ond cyrraedd y rhestrau aros a gaiff eu cyflwyno i weld meddygon teulu? Byddai’r strategaeth yn arwain at greu rhestr aros i weld meddygon teulu yn y pen draw ac at restr aros i weld ymgynghorydd cyn i’r claf gyrraedd y rhestr aros am lawdriniaeth. Dyna ergyd driphlyg.

David Melding spoken in English p. 63

David Melding siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 63

You are quite right to focus on waiting lists. Our response to that, and in fairness, Plaid Cymru’s response also, is to increase the number of GPs in the system. They have had targets for the number of GPs that will be recruited for Scotland and England for two years. The Minister for Health and Social Services has kept us waiting two years for these targets in Wales and we still do not know if we will get them in April. How many more GPs will she give us? One hundred? How many will it be?

Mae’n gwbl briodol ichi ganolbwyntio ar restrau aros. Ein hymateb i hynny, ac ymateb Plaid Cymru hefyd, a bod yn deg, yw cynyddu nifer y meddygon teulu yn y system. Pennwyd targedau ar gyfer nifer y meddygon teulu i’w recriwtio yn yr Alban a Lloegr ers dwy flynedd. Mae’r Gweinidog dros Iechyd a Gwasanaethau Cymdeithasol wedi gorfodi inni aros am ddwy flynedd am y targedau hyn yng Nghymru ac ni wyddom o hyd os cawn y targedau ym mis Ebrill. Faint yn fwy o feddygon teulu a rydd i ni? Cant? Faint ohonynt a rydd?

Alun Cairns spoken in English p. 63

Alun Cairns siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 63

I am grateful to my colleague for asking that question. I could say that he took the words right out of my mouth. Who asks the question is not important, but rather the person who gives us the answer. We look forward to the Minister’s response.

Yr wyf yn ddiolchgar i’m cyd-Aelod am ofyn y cwestiwn hwnnw. Gallwn ddweud iddo fynd â’m geiriau o’m ceg. Nid pwy sy’n gofyn y cwestiwn sydd o bwys, ond y sawl sy’n rhoi’r ateb inni. Edrychwn ymlaen at ymateb y Gweinidog.

Finally, I will make a brief point. Much has been made in this debate of NHS resources. We must use those resources to maximum effect. The Audit Committee recently took evidence in relation to prescription charges and the potential inefficiency in terms of their collection. The Auditor General for Wales published stark figures in terms of the lost revenue to the national health service because of inefficient management of that area of responsibility. If that was managed more productively, then more resources would be available. As well as new resources, effective use of the resources on offer is needed.

I gloi, hoffwn wneud pwynt byr. Rhoddwyd cryn bwyslais yn y ddadl hon ar adnoddau’r GIG. Rhaid inni wneud y defnydd mwyaf effeithiol o’r adnoddau hynny. Yn ddiweddar cymerodd y Pwyllgor Archwilio dystiolaeth am daliadau presgripsiwn a’r posibilrwydd eu bod yn cael eu casglu’n aneffeithlon. Cyhoeddodd Archwilydd Cyffredinol Cymru ffigurau du iawn ynglŷn â faint o refeniw y mae’r gwasanaeth iechyd gwladol yn ei golli drwy beidio â rheoli’r cyfrifoldeb hwnnw yn effeithiol. Pe bai’n cael ei reoli mewn modd mwy cynhyrchiol, byddai rhagor o adnoddau ar gael. Yn ogystal ag adnoddau newydd, mae angen defnyddio’r adnoddau sydd ar gael yn effeithiol.

Gwenda Thomas spoken in English p. 64

Gwenda Thomas siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 64

I support this motion and commend the commitment of the Welsh Assembly Government to improving primary healthcare. I am pleased to have had the opportunity to participate in the consultation exercise and fully agree with the key principles. I believe that the proposals will go a long way towards improving the range of care provided by primary healthcare services.

Cefnogaf y cynnig hwn a chymeradwyaf ymrwymiad Llywodraeth Cynulliad Cymru i wella gofal iechyd sylfaenol. Yr oeddwn yn falch o gael y cyfle i gymryd rhan yn yr ymarfer ymgynghori a chytunaf yn llwyr â’r egwyddorion allweddol. Credaf y bydd y cynigion o gymorth mawr i wella ystod y gofal a ddarperir gan wasanaethau gofal iechyd sylfaenol.

In your briefing paper, Minister, you gave an account of how you intend to implement the key principles. The aim of the strategy is to improve the range and quality of services. An important part of the strategy is to adopt new curricula and to provide a modern, quality primary care service in all parts of the nation.

Yn eich papur briffio, Weinidog, disgrifiwyd sut yr ydych yn bwriadu gweithredu’r egwyddorion allweddol. Nod y strategaeth yw gwella ystod ac ansawdd gwasanaethau. Un rhan bwysig o’r strategaeth yw mabwysiadu cwricwla newydd a darparu gwasanaeth gofal sylfaenol modern o safon i’r genedl gyfan.

You also state that the strategy moves beyond primary care, which is exclusively medical, and recognises the pivotal role which primary care plays in preventative services and public health. I, like the majority of the 178 people who responded to the consultation document, support the report’s key themes and objectives. One of the supportive comments, with which I agree, said that this is an excellent opportunity to forge broad-based primary care and to tackle health inequalities and unmet needs in the community.

Nodwch hefyd fod y strategaeth yn edrych y tu hwnt i ofal sylfaenol, sy’n feddygol yn unig, ac yn cydnabod y rôl allweddol y mae gofal sylfaenol yn ei chwarae mewn gwasanaethau ataliol ac iechyd cyhoeddus. Yr wyf fi, fel y mwyafrif o’r 178 o bobl a ymatebodd i’r ddogfen ymgynghori, yn cefnogi themâu ac amcanion allweddol yr adroddiad. Dywedodd un o’r sylwadau cefnogol, y cytunaf ag ef, fod hwn yn gyfle ardderchog i lunio gofal sylfaenol eang ei gwmpas ac i fynd i’r afael ag anghydraddoldebau iechyd ac anghenion nas diwallwyd yn y gymuned.

You may recall, Minister, that in my response to the document I proposed the following for inclusion in the final primary care strategy document: guidelines for identifying neglect and abuse of children; guidelines for risk assessment within families; community nursing links with schools to include re-establishing the role of the school nurse; and clearly defined responsibilities for drug administration during school hours for children with special needs. Also, in my response to the draft structural change document, which commented on the development of local health boards, I proposed stronger child protection programmes and the provision of guidelines on child protection strategies. Will you give your assurance that these proposals will be included in the final action plan?

Efallai y cofiwch, Weinidog, imi gynnig yn fy ymateb i’m dogfen y dylid cynnwys y canlynol yn y strategaeth gofal sylfaenol derfynol: canllawiau ar gyfer nodi achosion esgeuluso a cham-drin plant; canllawiau ar gyfer asesu risg mewn teuluoedd; cysylltiadau rhwng nyrsys cymunedol ac ysgolion gan gynnwys adfer rôl y nyrs ysgol; a diffinio cyfrifoldebau penodol dros roi cyffuriau i blant ag anghenion arbennig yn ystod oriau ysgol. Hefyd, yn fy ymateb i’r ddogfen ddrafft ar newid strwythurol, a nododd ddatblygiad byrddau iechyd lleol, cynigiais y dylid sefydlu rhaglenni diogelu plant cadarnach a rhoi canllawiau ar gyfer strategaethau diogelu plant. A wnewch chi roi’ch sicrwydd y caiff y cynigion hyn eu cynnwys yn y cynllun gweithredu terfynol?

Elin Jones siaradwyd yn Gymraeg t. 65

Elin Jones spoken in Welsh p. 65

Dechreuaf trwy gyfeirio’n benodol at wasanaeth deintyddiaeth yr NHS a gwelliant 8 yn enw Jocelyn Davies. Cyfeiriaf at y sefyllfa ddifrifol yng Nheredigion ar hyn o bryd ynglŷn â gwasanaeth deintyddiaeth yr NHS. Bydd Jane Hutt yn ymwybodol o hyn gan fy mod wedi gohebu â hi ar y mater hwn. Pe byddech yn ffonio Galw Iechyd Cymru heddiw a gofyn am ddeintydd NHS yng Ngheredigon y gallech gofrestru ag ef, dywedid wrthych nad oes yr un o’r 22 deintydd NHS yn y sir yn derbyn cleifion NHS newydd. Mae un deintydd NHS yn Aberteifi sy’n derbyn categorïau cyfyng o gleifion newydd yn unig. Datblygodd y sefyllfa hon yn fwy argyfyngus ddiwedd y flwyddyn diwethaf, pan orffennodd un deintydd NHS yn Aberystwyth weithio. Dros nos, yr oedd 2,000 o bobl ychwanegol yn chwilio am ddeintydd NHS yn yr ardal. Yr oedd gan y bobl hynny dri dewis: mynd ar restr aros hir ar gyfer gwasanaeth deintyddol NHS yng Ngheredigion; teithio awr a hanner neu ddwyawr at y deintydd NHS agosaf; neu fynd yn breifat, pan fyddai’r rhan fwyaf o ddeintyddion yr ardal yn eu croesawu.

I begin by referring specifically to the NHS dental service and amendment 8 in the name of Jocelyn Davies. I refer to the grave situation in Ceredigion at present regarding the NHS dental service. Jane Hutt will be aware of this as I have corresponded with her on this issue. If you phoned NHS Direct Wales today and asked for an NHS dentist in Ceredigion with whom you could register, you would be told that none of the 22 NHS dentists in the county accept new NHS patients. There is one NHS dentist in Cardigan who only accepts restricted categories of patients. This situation became more critical at the end of last year, when one of Aberystwyth’s NHS dentists finished working. Overnight, 2,000 additional people were looking for an NHS dentist in the area. Those people had three options: go on a long waiting list for NHS dental service in Ceredigion; travel one and a half hours or two hours to the nearest NHS dentist; or go private, in which case most dentists in the area would welcome them.

Mae’r sefyllfa hon yn annerbyniol. Dim ond i’r rhai a all fforddio talu am driniaeth breifat neu redeg car am dair neu bedair awr y mae’r tri dewis hynny ar gael. Dim ond un dewis sydd i’r rhai na allant fforddio hynny, sef dim triniaeth ddeintyddol. Nid dewis mo hynny.

This is an unacceptable situation. Those three options are only available to those who can afford to pay for private treatment or to run a car for three or four hours. There is only one option available for those who cannot afford that, namely no dental treatment. That is not an option.

Yr wyf wedi clywed arweinydd Ceidwadwyr Cymru yn lleisio’r un pryderon, gan gynnwys yn y Siambr y prynhawn yma. Fodd bynnag, mae angen ei atgoffa yn ei absenoldeb mai’r rheswm pam nad oes gwasanaeth deintyddol NHS ar gael yng Ngheredigion yw oherwydd yr hyrwyddo gwasanaeth preifat, y newidiadau i’r ffioedd ar gyfer triniaeth NHS a’r angen i gofrestru a gyflwynwyd gan y Torïaid yn 1992. Oherwydd hyn, mae gwaith sector preifat yn llawer mwy deniadol na gwaith NHS i ddeintyddion. Ers 1997, mae’r Blaid Lafur wedi parhau i ddefnyddio’r system a gyflwynwyd gan y Torïaid yn 1992. Dyma enghraifft arall o Lafur Newydd yn parhau â pholisïau’r Ceidwadwyr.

I have heard the leader of the Welsh Conservatives express the same concerns, including in the Chamber this afternoon. However, he must be reminded in his absence that the reason why no NHS dental service is available in Ceredigion is the promotion of private services, the changes to fees for NHS treatment and the requirement to register introduced by the Tories in 1992. Because of this, private sector work is much more attractive than NHS work to dentists. Since 1997, the Labour Party has continued to use the system introduced by the Tories in 1992. This is another example of what was started by the Conservatives, being continued by New Labour.

Er bod croeso euraid o hyd at £50,000 ar gael i sefydlu practis deintyddol yn ardal Awdurdod Iechyd Dyfed Powys, ni all yr awdurdod iechyd ddenu deintyddion. Mae angen edrych yn ddyfnach ar yr argyfwng hwn. Dylid ystyried system ariannu ar gyfer gwaith deintyddol NHS a datblygu strategaeth ddeintyddol NHS i Gymru gyfan. Dylem hefyd annog pobl ifanc mewn ardaloedd lle mae prinder deintyddion NHS i fynd i ysgol ddeintyddiaeth ac i ddychwelyd i’w bro i weithio. Dylem wario’r £50,000 ymlaen llaw i gefnogi hyfforddi deintyddion yn hytrach na’i gynnig i ddenu deintyddion o bŵl cyffredinol. Nid yw’r system yn llwyddo ar hyn o bryd yn Nyfed Powys.

Although a golden hello of up to £50,000 is available to establish a dental practice in the Dyfed Powys Health Authority area, the health authority cannot attract dentists. This crisis must be examined in more depth. A funding system for NHS dental work should be considered, and an all-Wales NHS dental strategy should be developed. We should also encourage young people in areas where there is a shortage of NHS dentists to attend dentistry school and to return to their native areas to work. We should spend the £50,000 beforehand to support the training of dentists, rather than offer it to attract dentists from a general pool. The system is not succeeding at present in Dyfed Powys.

Nododd Jane Hutt mewn ateb i gwestiwn diweddar gennyf nad yw’n barod i annog ac ariannu awdurdodau addysg i gynnig bwrsariaethau i fyfyrwyr yn Nyfed Powys a mannau eraill lle mae prinder deintyddion NHS ar gyfer cynllun a fyddai’n hyrwyddo hyfforddiant i ddeintyddion NHS. Mae hyn yn siomedig. Yr wyf hefyd yn siomedig nad yw’r Gweinidog yn cefnogi gwelliant 8 Plaid Cymru. Drwy wneud hynny, mae’n gwrthod cydnabod realiti’r argyfwng sy’n wynebu deintyddiaeth NHS yn fy etholaeth.

In an answer to a recent question that I asked, Jane Hutt noted that she is not willing to encourage and provide funding for education authorities to offer bursaries to students in Dyfed Powys and other areas where there is a shortage of NHS dentists for a scheme that would promote training for NHS dentists. That is disappointing. I am also disappointed that the Minister does not support Plaid Cymru’s amendment 8. In doing that, she is refusing to acknowledge the reality of the crisis facing dentistry in my constituency.

Christine Chapman spoken in English p. 66

Christine Chapman siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 66

I welcome this strategy and look forward to the changes that it will bring, particularly in our poorer communities, where sickness levels are much greater. Following her visits to the Cynon Valley, Jane will know of the challenge that we face, with the prospect of a large number of GPs retiring en bloc and, until now, a poor prospect of new doctors being attracted to work here because of the high level of deprivation. However, I welcome the fact that, following the establishment of the Assembly, there is an initiative to bring new GPs to the Cynon Valley. That has not been the case for many years. We were all pleased to hear of the golden hellos initiative yesterday, as that is even better news.

Croesawaf y strategaeth hon ac edrychaf ymlaen at y newidiadau a ddaw yn ei sgîl, yn arbennig yn ein cymunedau tlotaf, lle ceir lefelau llawer uwch o salwch. Ar ôl ei hymweliadau â Chwm Cynon, gŵyr Jane am yr her a wynebwn o ran y nifer fawr o feddygon teulu a fydd o bosibl yn ymddeol ar yr un pryd a, hyd yma, y rhagolygon gwael ar gyfer denu meddygon newydd i weithio yma oherwydd yr amddifadedd mawr. Fodd bynnag, croesawaf y ffaith bod menter bellach i ddenu meddygon teulu newydd i Gwm Cynon yn sgîl sefydlu’r Cynulliad. Nid yw hynny wedi digwydd ers blynyddoedd lawer. Yr oeddem oll yn falch o glywed am y croeso euraid ddoe, sydd yn newyddion gwell byth.

One of the newer GPs in the Cynon Valley is a woman. Again, this has not been the case for many years. Attracting female GPs is vital. There is a link between early teenage pregnancy and a lack of women GPs in communities. If we consider the recruitment of the GPs of the future, we know that many will be women, which I hope will be reflected in the contractual arrangements. That is important.

Ymhlith y meddygon teulu a ddaeth i Gwm Cynon yn ddiweddar mae un fenyw. Unwaith eto, nid yw hynny wedi digwydd ers blynyddoedd lawer. Mae’n hollbwysig denu meddygon teulu benywaidd. Mae cysylltiad rhwng merched yn beichiogi yn eu harddegau cynnar a phrinder meddygon teulu benywaidd mewn cymunedau. Os ystyriwn recriwtio meddygon teulu yn y dyfodol, gwyddom mai menywod fydd llawer ohonynt, rhywbeth a gaiff ei adlewyrchu yn y trefniadau cytundebol, gobeithio. Mae hynny’n bwysig.

We must be more holistic in our approach to health. I welcome the fact that this strategy encourages GPs, hospitals and local community groups to work together to develop good practices. The Minister will be aware of the devastating blow felt by the people of Cynon Valley a few days ago as a result of the announcement that the Cancer Care Society is to close its five offices in the UK, including the Cynon Valley branch in Mountain Ash. The Minister will know that I am closely involved with this centre, which she opened in October 1999. The centre provides a unique service in the Cynon Valley for families and other people affected by cancer. John Griffiths reminded us that cancer affects many people. Therefore these services will be sorely missed, if the decision is not reversed. I have written to Jane about this matter and sought clarification from the Cancer Care Society’s at a national level, which made this decision. Will the Minister do all that she can to reverse this announcement?

Rhaid inni fabwysiadu ymagwedd fwy cyfannol tuag at iechyd. Croesawaf y ffaith bod y strategaeth hon yn annog meddygon teulu, ysbytai a grwpiau cymunedol eraill i gydweithio i ddatblygu arferion da. Bydd y Gweinidog yn ymwybodol o’r ergyd drom a gafodd bobl Cwm Cynon ychydig ddyddiau yn ôl yn sgîl cyhoeddiad Cymdeithas Gofal Canser ei bod yn cau ei phum swyddfa yn y DU, gan gynnwys cangen Cwm Cynon yn Aberpennar. Gŵyr y Gweinidog fod gennyf gysylltiad agos iawn â’r ganolfan hon, a agorwyd ganddi ym mis Hydref 1999. Mae’r ganolfan yn rhoi gwasanaeth unigryw yng Nghwm Cynon i deuluoedd a phobl eraill yr effeithir arnynt gan ganser. Fe’n hatgoffwyd gan John Griffiths bod canser yn effeithio ar nifer fawr o bobl. Felly bydd pobl yn colli’r gwasanaethau hyn yn fawr iawn, os na newidir y penderfyniad. Ysgrifennais at Jane ar y mater hwn a cheisiais eglurhad gan y Gymdeithas Gofal Canser yn genedlaethol, lle y gwnaed y penderfyniad hwn. A wnaiff y Gweinidog bopeth o fewn ei gallu i newid y penderfyniad hwn a gyhoeddwyd?

Ann Jones spoken in English p. 67

Ann Jones siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 67

The primary care statistics have been well rehearsed and everyone now knows that nine out of 10 patients probably receive all their diagnosis and care at the primary care level. Local GPs are at the core of the primary care team, complemented by a range of other professionals, such as community nurses, pharmacists, dentists, physiotherapists, speech and language therapists and radiographers. That is essential to the way forward in primary care. The Welsh NHS Confederation has shown that this is also the right way forward.

Nodwyd yr ystadegau am ofal sylfaenol sawl tro eisoes a gŵyr pawb bellach y caiff naw o bob 10 o gleifion eu holl ofal a diagnosis yn fwy na thebyg drwy ofal sylfaenol. Meddygon teulu lleol sydd wrth wraidd y tîm gofal sylfaenol, wedi’u hategu gan ystod o weithwyr proffesiynol eraill, megis nyrsys, fferyllwyr, deintyddion, ffisiotherapyddion, therapyddion lleferydd ac iaith a radiograffyddion. Mae hynny yn hanfodol i symud ymlaen â gofal sylfaenol. Dangosodd Cydffederasiwn GIG Cymru mai hyn hefyd yw’r ffordd gywir ymlaen.

I want the NHS to become a health service, not a sickness service. We are now empowering frontline staff to address the needs of their localities and mainstreaming primary care at a national level by establishing the new Primary Care Directorate with its ambitious target for all patients to have access to a member of a primary care team within 24 hours. I make no apologies for reminding Members that the most deprived ward in Wales is part of my constituency. There is low demand in some of the areas that I represent, but not because the needs are low. We have the highest emergency hospital admission rate across north Wales, but a low admission rate from GPs. That is a classic symptom of people on low income or having low esteem needing the NHS but not using it. That is why we need a proactive health service that finds the people who most need the treatment. The Denbighshire local health group has recognised this challenge. Its primary care plan is very much work in progress, but it is heading in the right direction.

Yr wyf am i’r GIG ddod yn wasanaeth iechyd, nid gwasanaeth salwch. Yr ydym erbyn hyn yn galluogi staff rheng-flaen i fynd i’r afael ag anghenion eu cymdogaethau a sicrhau bod gofal sylfaenol yn y prif ffrwd yn genedlaethol drwy sefydlu’r Gyfarwyddiaeth Gofal Sylfaenol newydd gyda’i tharged uchelgeisiol o sicrhau bod modd i bob claf weld aelod o dîm gofal sylfaenol o fewn 24 awr. Nid ymddiheuraf am atgoffa’r Aelodau bod y ward fwyaf difreintiedig yng Nghymru yn rhan o’m hetholaeth. Nid oes fawr o alw mewn rhai o’r ardaloedd a gynrychiolaf, ond nid am fod anghenion yn isel. Mae gennym y gyfradd uchaf ar draws Gogledd Cymru ar gyfer derbyn cleifion i’r ysbyty fel achosion brys, ond cyfradd isel o gleifion a gaiff eu derbyn i’r ysbyty drwy law meddygon teulu. Mae hynny yn symptom clasurol o bobl ag incwm isel neu ddiffyg hunanhyder y mae angen y GIG arnynt ond nid ydynt yn ei ddefnyddio. Dyna pam mae angen gwasanaeth iechyd rhagweithiol sy’n canfod y bobl y mae angen triniaeth arnynt fwyaf. Cydnabu’r grŵp iechyd lleol yn Sir Ddinbych yr her hon. Dim ond megis cychwyn ar y gwaith o ddatblygu ei gynllun gofal sylfaenol y mae, ond mae’n mynd i’r cyfeiriad iawn.

The close-to-home service and the continuity of care that Welsh primary care provides is rightly valued by patients and people in communities. We need to hold on to all that is best about our current arrangements. However, we must recognise that the world is changing. The systems that have served us for the last 50 years need to adapt to the challenges of this century. We can now identify and treat diseases that proved fatal in previous generations. We can prescribe medicines in a local practice for conditions that, a few years ago, would have required a major operation. Lifestyles are also changing. The number of people expected to live over the age of 90 will double over the next 25 years. The consumer society also demands instant access.

Mae cleifion a phobl mewn cymunedau yn gwerthfawrogi’r gwasanaeth agos i’r cartref a’r parhad gofal a ddarperir gan ofal sylfaenol yng Nghymru gyda rheswm da. Mae angen inni gadw’r agweddau gorau ar ein trefniadau presennol. Fodd bynnag, rhaid inni gydnabod bod y byd yn newid. Mae angen i’r systemau a fu’n ein gwasanaethu am y 50 mlynedd diwethaf ymaddasu i heriau’r ganrif hon. Gallwn bellach nodi a thrin clefydau a oedd yn glefydau angheuol yn y gorffennol. Gallwn ragnodi meddyginiaethau mewn meddygfa leol am anhwylderau a fyddai, ychydig flynyddoedd yn ôl, wedi golygu llawdriniaeth fawr. Mae ein ffordd o fyw yn newid hefyd. Bydd nifer y bobl y disgwylir iddynt gyrraedd 90 mlwydd oed yn dyblu yn ystod y 25 mlynedd nesaf. Mae’r gymdeithas o ddefnyddwyr hefyd yn gofyn am wasanaethau ar unwaith.

It is important that, to achieve all of this, we look to primary care staff within the NHS. Most important of all, we need to ensure that we keep expensively-trained professionals in Wales. We must also focus on alternatives to the traditional practice models, for instance with salaried GPs. I also welcome golden hellos. It may need to be revisited, but it is a start. We also need to develop flexible working practices for all members of the primary healthcare team.

Mae’n bwysig ein bod yn edrych tuag at staff gofal sylfaenol o fewn y GIG i gyflawni hyn oll. Yn bwysicach fyth, mae angen inni sicrhau ein bod yn cadw ein gweithwyr proffesiynol, sy’n cael hyfforddiant costus, yng Nghymru. Rhaid inni hefyd ganolbwyntio ar fodelau amgen yn lle’r modelau practis traddodiadol, er enghraifft, meddygon teulu cyflogedig. Croesawaf hefyd y croeso euraid. Efallai y bydd angen ei ailystyried eto, ond man cychwyn ydyw. Mae angen hefyd inni ddatblygu ffyrdd hyblyg o weithio i bob aelod o’r tîm gofal iechyd sylfaenol.

GPs, supported by practice nurses and pharmacists will, as they have always done, provide medical care for routine ailments. Increasingly, the practice should become the place where diagnostic tests are carried out, and as GPs start to specialise and develop their specialisms, one practice could provide a service to the patients of another. Where a hospital referral is needed, appointments should be booked on the spot. Preventative care is also changing and we need to be ready for that. GP practice teams will work with community nurses, physiotherapists and social care staff to help older people to stay fit and independent. Electronic patient records will enable a continuity of care even if patients contact the health service through NHS Direct, walk-in centres or e-mail.

Bydd meddygon teulu, gyda chefnogaeth nyrsys practis a fferyllwyr, yn rhoi gofal meddygol at afiechydon cyffredin, fel y gwnaethant erioed. Yn fwyfwy, y dylid gwneud profion diagnostig mewn meddygfeydd ac wrth i feddygon teulu ddechrau arbenigo a datblygu eu meysydd arbenigol, gallai un feddygfa roi gwasanaeth i gleifion mewn meddygfa arall. Lle mae angen cyfeirio claf i’r ysbyty, dylid trefnu apwyntiadau yn y man a’r lle. Mae gofal ataliol hefyd yn newid ac mae angen inni fod yn barod ar gyfer hynny. Bydd timau practis meddygon teulu yn gweithio gyda nyrsys cymunedol, ffisiotherapyddion a staff gofal cymdeithasol i helpu pobl hŷn i aros yn iach ac yn annibynnol. Bydd cofnodion cleifion a gedwir yn electronig yn galluogi parhad gofal hyd yn oed os bydd cleifion yn cysylltu â’r gwasanaeth iechyd drwy Galw Iechyd Cymru, canolfannau galw i mewn neu e-bost.

If this primary care revolution is to take off, it is important that we support the practices and the whole practice team as well as individual GPs. It will take time to achieve all this, which is why it sometimes feels as though there is a gap between the vision and the reality on the ground. We need to hold on to this vision and, step by step, work towards it. Taken together, the aims of these initiatives will move us on towards a modern NHS. Structural changes are in progress. There is record extra financial investment, not just for one year but for the long term. The extra staff is being recruited and the largest ever capital programme is under way. Now we can start to empower our local health teams to deliver in a more flexible, less centrally-directed way. It is a huge opportunity and, whatever the difficulties, it will be the basis of renewing the NHS. It is what we all want and, in partnership, I believe that it is what we can and will achieve.

Er mwyn i’r chwyldro hwn ym maes gofal sylfaenol lwyddo, mae’n bwysig ein bod yn rhoi cymorth i’r meddygfeydd ac i dîm cyfan y feddygfa yn ogystal â meddygon teulu unigol. Fe gymer amser i gyflawni hyn i gyd, a dyma pam y teimlir weithiau fel pe bai bwlch rhwng y weledigaeth a’r realiti ar lawr gwlad. Mae angen inni ddal ein gafael ar y weledigaeth hon a, fesul cam, weithio tuag at ei chyflawni. Gyda’i gilydd, bydd nodau’r mentrau hyn yn ein symud tuag at GIG modern. Mae newidiadau strwythurol ar waith. Yr arian ychwanegol a fuddsoddwyd yw’r swm uchaf erioed ond am un flwyddyn yn unig y mae ac nid am yr hirdymor. Caiff y staff ychwanegol eu recriwtio ac mae’r rhaglen gyfalaf fwyaf erioed ar waith. Yn awr gallwn ddechrau galluogi ein timau iechyd lleol i ddarparu gwasanaethau mewn ffordd fwy hyblyg, sy’n canolbwyntio llai ar y gwasanaeth canolog. Mae’n gyfle gwych a beth bynnag fo’r anawsterau, hon fydd sail adnewyddu’r GIG. Dyma beth y mae pob un ohonom yn ei ddymuno ac, mewn partneriaeth, credaf mai dyma beth y gallwn ei gyflawni ac y gwnawn ei gyflawni.

Peter Black spoken in English p. 70

Peter Black siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 70

Listening to the debate today, the importance of the primary care sector is clear. I was in a doctor’s surgery in my area yesterday, and I witnessed a large number of people visiting the practice, clearly dependent on the services provided by local GPs. Many of them were on first-name terms with their GPs. It is clear how important those GPs are, not just in terms of the patients’ health, but also in terms of the ethos of the community and how much they fitted into it and assisted the people who came to them for help. Clearly, as has been said, the primary care sector—whether visiting a GP or a dentist—offers a major point of entry for secondary care services and other services that are available through the NHS. The strategy that we debate today will make a major contribution to ensuring that the primary care sector is not only properly funded but also that we tackle some of the major issues that have been highlighted today.

Wrth wrando ar y ddadl heddiw mae pwysigrwydd y sector gofal sylfaenol yn glir. Yr oeddwn mewn meddygfa yn fy ardal i ddoe, a gwelais nifer fawr o bobl yn ymweld â’r feddygfa, yn amlwg yn ddibynnol ar y gwasanaethau a ddarperir gan feddygon teulu lleol. Ti a thithau oedd hi rhwng llawer ohonynt a’u meddyg teulu. Mae’n amlwg pa mor bwysig yw’r meddygon teulu hynny, nid yn unig o ran iechyd y cleifion, ond hefyd o ran ethos y gymuned a’r modd yr oeddent yn chwarae rhan ynddi ac yn helpu’r bobl a ddeuai atynt am gymorth. Yn amlwg, fel y dywedwyd, mae’r sector gofal sylfaenol—boed rhywun yn ymweld â meddyg teulu neu ddeintydd—yn cynnig mynediad o bwys i wasanaethau gofal sylfaenol a gwasanaethau eraill sydd ar gael drwy’r GIG. Bydd y strategaeth a drafodwn heddiw yn gwneud cyfraniad mawr i sicrhau yr ariennir y sector gofal sylfaenol yn gywir a’n bod hefyd yn mynd i’r afael â rhai o’r materion o bwys a amlygwyd heddiw.

David Lloyd spoken in English p. 70

David Lloyd siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 70

I was intrigued by your earlier intervention on what additional resources a Plaid Cymru government would put into such a scheme to improve primary care. Given that you are part of the Government, it would be more relevant to ask what additional resources will you provide to make any action plan for primary care a reality.

Yr oedd diddordeb mawr gennyf yn eich ymyriad cynharaf ar ba adnoddau ychwanegol y byddai llywodraeth Plaid Cymru yn eu rhoi mewn cynllun o’r fath i wella gofal sylfaenol. O gofio eich bod yn rhan o’r Llywodraeth, byddai’n fwy perthnasol gofyn pa adnoddau ychwanegol y byddwch yn eu darparu i wireddu unrhyw gynllun gweithredu ar gyfer gofal sylfaenol.

Peter Black spoken in English p. 70

Peter Black siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 70

Dai, I am sure that you have received a copy of the strategy like everyone here. You will know—as my colleague just shouted behind me—that there was a 9.7 per cent increase in NHS funding this year. Extra money is being invested in the NHS—

Dai, yr wyf yn siŵr y cawsoch eich copi o’r strategaeth fel pawb arall yma. Gwyddoch—fel y gweiddodd fy nghyd-Aelod y tu ôl imi—y bu cynnydd o 9.7 y cant yn arian y GIG eleni. Buddsoddir arian ychwanegol yn y GIG—

Cynog Dafis a gododd—

Cynog Dafis rose—

Peter Black spoken in English p. 70

Peter Black siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 70

Let me finish this point. Clearly, it is important that this partnership Government is putting huge amounts of extra resources into the health service, but we are directing that money into the primary care sector and the extra money is included in the strategy.

Gadewch imi orffen y pwynt hwn. Yn amlwg, mae’n bwysig bod y Llywodraeth bartneriaeth hon yn rhoi symiau mawr o adnoddau ychwanegol yn y gwasanaeth iechyd, ond cyfeiriwn yr arian hwnnw i’r sector gofal sylfaenol a chynhwysir yr arian ychwanegol yn y strategaeth.

Cynog Dafis spoken in English p. 70

Cynog Dafis siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 70

I was wondering whether the Liberal Democrats were taking the credit for this supposed additional money for the NHS and are they saying that if there were no partnership, it would not be happening?

Tybiais a oedd y Democratiaid Rhyddfrydol yn cymryd y clod am yr arian ychwanegol tybiedig hwn ar gyfer y GIG ac a ddywedant na fyddai’n digwydd, pe na bai partneriaeth?

Peter Black spoken in English p. 71

Peter Black siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 71

It is nice of you to raise that matter, Cynog. Of course, the Liberal Democrats do not take credit for everything that happens because this is a partnership Government. Equal credit is available to both parties in the partnership. The Minister for Health and Social Services is taking this strategy forward on behalf of the partnership Government and a great deal of credit is also owed to her.

Yr ydych yn garedig iawn i godi’r mater hwnnw, Cynog. Wrth gwrs, ni chymer y Democratiaid Rhyddfrydol y clod am bopeth sy’n digwydd oherwydd mai Llywodraeth bartneriaeth yw hon. Mae’r un clod ar gael i’r ddwy blaid yn y bartneriaeth. Mae’r gweinidog dros Iechyd a Gwasanaethau Cymdeithasol yn gweithredu ar y strategaeth hon ar ran y Llywodraeth bartneriaeth ac mae llawer iawn o glod yn ddyledus iddi hi hefyd.

If you want to discuss measures that the partnership Government is undertaking, particularly on primary health care, then you must consider some of the measures that we are introducing on prevention, from free dental checks for 18 to 25-year-olds and over-60s to the freezing of prescription charges and free prescriptions to under-25s and free eye tests for certain categories of people. Those are the kinds of changes that the partnership agreement has focused on in terms of investing in our health service and in the health of the nation. That is the sort of issue with which we are particularly concerned and which the partnership Government—for which both partners have equal credit—is taking forward as part of the administration’s strategy to deal with the national health service.

Os ydych am drafod mesurau y mae’r Llywodraeth bartneriaeth yn ymgymryd â hwy, yn arbennig ar ofal iechyd sylfaenol, mae’n rhaid ichi ystyried rhai o’r mesurau a gyflwynwn ar atal, o archwiliadau deintyddol am ddim i bobl rhwng 18 a 25 mlwydd oed a phobl dros 60 mlwydd oed i rewi taliadau presgripsiwn i bobl o dan 25 mlwydd oed a phrofion llygad am ddim i gategorïau penodol o bobl. Dyna’r math o newidiadau y mae’r cytundeb partneriaeth wedi canolbwyntio arnynt o ran buddsoddi yn ein gwasanaeth iechyd ac yn iechyd y genedl. Dyna’r math o fater yr ydym yn gofidio yn ei gylch yn benodol ac y mae’r Llywodraeth bartneriaeth—y rhoddir yr un clod i’r ddau bartner—yn gweithredu arno fel rhan o strategaeth y weinyddiaeth i ddelio â’r gwasanaeth iechyd gwladol.

Geraint and others talked of the problems in deprived areas. Yes, we must recognise that there are problems there. Initiatives are being introduced to deal with them and I, like others, have heard the reports about the number of GPs who are due for early retirement.

Soniodd Geraint ac eraill am y problemau mewn ardaloedd difreintiedig. Oes, rhaid inni gydnabod bod problemau yno. Cyflwynir mentrau i ddelio â hwy, ac yr wyf fi, fel eraill, wedi clywed yr adroddiadau am nifer y meddygon teulu y mae disgwyl iddynt ymddeol yn gynnar.

Kirsty Williams spoken in English p. 71

Kirsty Williams siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 71

Do you agree that there is difficulty not only in recruiting GPs to deprived areas but also that there is a grave situation in recruiting GPs to rural areas? We must examine the contracts and how GPs are paid to ensure that sustainable lists of GPs are attracted to areas of lower population. The recruitment difficulty is not only in deprived areas; there is a real need in rural communities also.

A gytunwch fod anhawster nid yn unig i recriwtio meddygon teulu i ardaloedd difreintiedig ond hefyd bod y sefyllfa o ran recriwtio meddygon teulu i ardaloedd gwledig yn ddifrifol hefyd? Rhaid inni archwilio’r contractau a’r modd y telir meddygon teulu i sicrhau y denir rhestrau cynaliadwy o feddygon teulu i ardaloedd â phoblogaeth lai. Mae’r anhawster recriwtio yn broblem nid yn unig mewn ardaloedd difreintiedig; mae angen gwirioneddol mewn cymunedau gwledig hefyd.

Peter Black spoken in English p. 72

Peter Black siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 72

I absolutely agree. We must take these initiatives forward. The new medical school, the training initiatives, flexible working, better accommodation, the golden hellos, are all crucial issues that we must take forward. The important point about this debate is that we at last have a clear strategy. The Conservatives talked earlier about GP fundholding, but the situation is that, as a result of that GP fundholding, we have inherited a dire situation in terms of primary care. That is a matter that we are now seeking to rectify. I hope that this strategy is the first building block in terms of achieving that. I am therefore happy to support the motion.

Cytunaf yn llwyr. Rhaid inni weithredu ar y mentrau hyn. Mae’r ysgol feddygol newydd, y mentrau hyfforddi, oriau gwaith hyblyg, gwell adeiladau, y croeso euraid, oll yn faterion hollbwysig y mae’n rhaid inni eu datblygu. Y pwynt pwysig ynglŷn â’r ddadl hon yw bod gennym strategaeth glir o’r diwedd. Soniodd y Ceidwadwyr yn gynharach am ddeiliaid cronfa meddygon teulu, ond y gwir yw ein bod, o ganlyniad i’r deiliaid cronfa meddygon teulu hynny, wedi etifeddu sefyllfa enbyd o ran gofal sylfaenol. Mae hwn yn fater y ceisiwn ei unioni yn awr. Gobeithiaf mai’r strategaeth hon fydd yn dwyn y maen cyntaf i’r wal. Yr wyf felly yn falch iawn o gefnogi’r cynnig.

Peter Law spoken in English p. 72

Peter Law siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 72

I am pleased to support the Minister and welcome these proposals immaterial of the opportunist approach of Peter Black and the Liberal Democrats. Their contribution to this will be nil, as usual. They ride on the back of what is known as a partnership Government. However, I want to talk about the people who count, people who live in deprived communities such as mine, Blaenau Gwent. What does this mean for them? That is important.

Yr wyf yn falch o gefnogi’r Gweinidog a chroesawaf y cynigion hyn waeth beth yw ymagwedd fanteisgar Peter Black a’r Democratiaid Rhyddfrydol. Bydd eu cyfraniad i hyn yn ddim, fel arfer. Manteisiant ar fod yn aelodau o Lywodraeth bartneriaeth. Fodd bynnag, yr wyf am siarad am y bobl sy’n cyfrif, pobl sy’n byw mewn cymunedau difreintiedig fel fy nghymuned i, Blaenau Gwent. Beth a olyga hyn iddynt hwy? Mae hynny’n bwysig.

People talk of inverse care law working. What do people think of that when they read that or hear it on television? Inverse care law working means that we are not getting the resources to the places of need. Why do we not say that? Plainly, the people feel that lack out there, and have felt it for a long time. For around 10 years we have had a shortage of doctors in my constituency. This is a serious problem. That is why this strategy must be able to tackle this. The action plan that will come into force in April will reach out to include areas such as my constituency and other deprived areas, because it is not just about urban areas—there are problems of deprivation in rural areas as well. The Townsend report, when we receive and debate it, will dovetail into this matter, which is all about making resources available. The concept of primary healthcare centres is a welcome one. I was delighted when the Minister announced last year that north Gwent would receive one in addition to Flintshire’s. It will work alongside the rapid response teams in Blaenau Gwent, which she recently visited. They do an excellent job and work closely—as referred to by Kirsty Williams—with the nurses in Powys who do a similar job in trying to take the pressure off the system. That is how important it is that everybody works together.

Mae pobl yn sôn am ddeddf gofal gwrthgyfartal yn gweithio. Beth mae pobl yn ei feddwl pan fyddant yn darllen hynny neu’n clywed hynny ar y teledu? Mae gwaith deddf gofal gwrthgyfartal yn golygu nad ydym yn llwyddo rhoi’r adnoddau yn y mannau lle mae eu hangen. Pam na ddywedwn hynny? Yn amlwg, teimla pobl y diffyg hwnnw, ac maent wedi ei deimlo er amser hir. Ers tua 10 mlynedd bu prinder meddygon yn fy etholaeth. Mae honno’n broblem ddifrifol. Dyna pam mae’n rhaid i’r strategaeth hon allu fynd i’r afael â hyn. Bydd y cynllun gweithredu a ddaw i rym ym mis Ebrill yn ymestyn allan i gynnwys ardaloedd fel fy etholaeth i ac ardaloedd difreintiedig eraill, oherwydd nid yw a wnelo ag ardaloedd trefol yn unig—mae problemau amddifadedd mewn ardaloedd gwledig hefyd. Bydd adroddiad Townsend, pan dderbyniwn a thrafodwn ef, yn ymblethu â’r mater hwn, sydd yn ymwneud â sicrhau bod adnoddau ar gael. Mae cysyniad canolfannau gofal iechyd sylfaenol yn un i’w groesawu. Yr oeddwn wrth fy modd pan gyhoeddodd y Gweinidog y llynedd y byddai gogledd Gwent yn cael un yn ogystal â Sir y Fflint. Bydd yn gweithio ochr yn ochr â’r timau ymateb cyflym ym Mlaenau Gwent, yr ymwelodd â hwy yn ddiweddar. Gwnânt waith rhagorol a gweithiant yn agos—fel y soniodd Kirsty Williams—â’r nyrsys ym Mhowys sy’n gwneud gwaith tebyg i geisio tynnu’r pwysau oddi ar y system. Dyna pa mor bwysig ydyw i bawb gydweithio.

The reference to a national information technology network is long overdue and welcome when you consider how many GP practices must be linked up in this way. In Gwent, we have some of the finest practice premises because, before the current health authority, the former Gwent family practitioner committee and family health services authority worked hard to develop that with the doctors. I pay tribute to the doctors who make a valid contribution. However, the fact is that we may have to continue with salaried doctors in the future because the incentives announced today may not be enough. I hope that they will be, but when you try to attract doctors to an area of poverty, with a high workload from the elderly and the chronically sick in an area of heavy industry, it is a heavy job. The same has been seen in dentistry. I appreciate what Elin Jones said earlier. The Tory changes of 1992 meant that not only was there no room on the waiting list for some of my constituents, but people in a poor community were intimidated by the system. They were afraid that they were signing up to a scheme so expensive that they would have no support, and would not be able to afford to visit their doctors. For that reason, I was delighted when Gwent Healthcare NHS Trust established salaried dentists in Blaenau Gwent. My constituency had the highest number of cases of dental caries, and many people needed support. I am a patient of a salaried dentist in the Abertillery resource centre, which has been a great success. People are flocking back, because they know that they will not be worried or intimidated there. It is the nearest thing to the former national health service system. The system of salaried dentists works, and it works well in deprived areas.

Bu hir ddisgwyl am gyfeiriad at rwydwaith technoleg gwybodaeth cenedlaethol ac mae i’w groesawu pan ystyriwch faint o feddygfeydd teulu sydd yn gysylltiedig yn y ffordd hon. Yng Ngwent, mae gennym rai o’r adeiladau gorau ar gyfer meddygfeydd oherwydd, cyn yr awdurdod iechyd presennol, gweithiodd cyn-bwyllgor meddygon teulu Gwent a’r awdurdod gwasanaethau iechyd teulu yn galed i ddatblygu hynny gyda’r meddygon. Talaf deyrnged i’r meddygon; mae eu cyfraniad yn werthfawr. Fodd bynnag, y gwir yw efallai y bydd yn rhaid inni barhau â meddygon cyflogedig yn y dyfodol gan na fydd y cymelldaliadau a gyhoeddwyd heddiw yn ddigon efallai. Gobeithio y byddant, ond pan geisiwch ddenu meddygon i ardal dlawd, gyda baich gwaith uchel oherwydd yr henoed a’r rhai sy’n dioddef o salwch cronig mewn ardal ddiwydiannol iawn, mae’n waith anodd. Gwelwyd yr un peth ym maes deintyddiaeth. Gwerthfawrogaf yr hyn a ddywedodd Elin Jones yn gynharach. Golygodd newidiadau’r Torïaid yn 1992 nad oedd lle ar y rhestr aros i rai o’m hetholwyr yn ogystal â’r ffaith bod y system yn codi ofn ar bobl mewn cymuned dlawd. Yr oeddent yn pryderu eu bod yn ymuno â chynllun mor gostus fel na fyddai unrhyw gymorth ganddynt, ac na fyddent yn gallu fforddio ymweld â’u meddygon. Am y rheswm hwnnw, yr oeddwn wrth fy modd pan sefydlodd Ymddiriedolaeth GIG Gofal Iechyd Gwent ddeintyddion cyflogedig ym Mlaenau Gwent. Yr oedd gan fy etholaeth y nifer uchaf o achosion o bydredd dannedd, ac yr oedd angen cymorth ar lawer o bobl. Yr wyf ar restr deintydd cyflogedig yng nghanolfan adnoddau Abertyleri, a fu’n llwyddiant mawr. Mae pobl yn heidio yn ôl yno, oherwydd gwyddant na fyddant yn ofidus nac yn ofnus yno. Dyma’r peth agosaf at system yr hen wasanaeth iechyd gwladol. Mae system deintyddion cyflogedig yn gweithio, ac yn gweithio’n dda mewn ardaloedd difreintiedig.

On the professions allied to medicine, we are grateful for the work that they do. However, this document refers to speech therapists in particular. Speech therapy is of major concern—not only for deprived areas, but throughout Gwent. It is a ticking time bomb. We cannot find enough speech therapists to work in the English language, let alone in Welsh. The Minister is working hard to encourage more people to enrol as speech therapists and to bring them into the area. However, we must remember that if we cannot tackle a child’s speech problem during its formative years, the child is cursed for life. Everyone in this Chamber will surely know of such an example—

O ran y galwedigaethau sy’n gysylltiedig â meddygaeth, yr ydym yn ddiolchgar am y gwaith a wnânt. Fodd bynnag, cyfeiria’r ddogfen hon at therapyddion lleferydd yn benodol. Mae therapi lleferydd yn fater o bwys—nid yn unig mewn ardaloedd difreintiedig, ond ledled Gwent. Mae’n fom amser yn tician. Ni allwn ddod o hyd i ddigon o therapyddion lleferydd i weithio yn y Saesneg, heb sôn am yn y Gymraeg. Mae’r Gweinidog yn gweithio’n galed i annog mwy o bobl i ymgofrestru fel therapyddion lleferydd ac i ddod â hwy i’r ardal. Fodd bynnag, rhaid inni gofio y bydd plentyn wedi ei felltithio am oes, os na allwn fynd i’r afael â’i broblem lleferydd yn y blynyddoedd ffurfiannol. Gŵyr pawb yn y Siambr hon mae’n siŵr am enghraifft o’r fath—

David Melding spoken in English p. 74

David Melding siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 74

I am grateful to the Member for raising this issue. Gwent is particularly badly served in the number of speech therapists that it has. One problem is that the lack of speech therapy means that there is a lack of appropriate educational provision. The lack of special schools in this country that can deal with children with speech and language learning difficulties is a scandal.

Yr wyf yn ddiolchgar i’r Aelod am godi’r mater hwn. Mae gan Went nifer isel iawn o therapyddion lleferydd. Un broblem yw bod prinder therapyddion lleferydd yn golygu bod prinder darpariaeth addysgol briodol. Mae’n warthus bod prinder ysgolion arbennig yn y wlad hon a all ddelio â phlant sydd ag anawsterau lleferydd a dysgu iaith.

Peter Law spoken in English p. 74

Peter Law siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 74

Over the past two or three years, Gwent Health Authority has appointed five additional speech therapists, thanks to the Labour Government. It is still not enough, but that is the commitment that was given. The Minister has supported that as she has supported salaried dentists in Blaenau Gwent.

Dros y ddwy neu dair blynedd diwethaf, penododd Awdurdod Iechyd Gwent bum therapydd lleferydd ychwanegol, diolch i’r Llywodraeth Lafur. Nid yw’n ddigon o hyd, ond dyna’r ymrwymiad a roddwyd. Cefnogodd y Gweinidog hynny fel y cefnogodd ddeintyddion cyflogedig ym Mlaenau Gwent.

Finally, deprived areas will present a major challenge for this strategy. There is no doubt that it must succeed in making a difference to our people. All people are entitled to demand good health and wellbeing; nothing less will do. I am certain that the strategy will go a long way toward providing that and making a difference in the future.

Yn olaf, bydd yr ardaloedd difreintiedig yn her fawr i’r strategaeth hon. Nid oes unrhyw amheuaeth bod yn rhaid iddi lwyddo i wneud gwahaniaeth i’n pobl. Mae gan bawb yr hawl i fynnu iechyd da a lles; ni fydd dim byd llai yn gwneud y tro. Yr wyf yn sicr y gwnaiff y strategaeth lawer i ddarparu hynny a gwneud gwahaniaeth yn y dyfodol.

Lorraine Barrett spoken in English p. 75

Lorraine Barrett siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 75

I welcome the strategy’s key aims, particularly in reducing the workload of doctors and nurses. However, primary care is about more than just medical treatment. I am pleased to see the joined-up thinking behind the strategy, which recognises the importance of primary care in preventative healthcare. Links with social policy services, such as housing and the environment, are key to this. However, education has a huge part to play in preventative healthcare, from birth and, indeed, pre-conception right through school life and beyond. The various clinics in our health centres can play a huge part in that educational programme, as well as our schools. Gwenda mentioned earlier the part that school nurses can and do play in that educational programme.

Croesawaf nodau allweddol y strategaeth, yn arbennig wrth leihau baich gwaith meddygon a nyrsys. Fodd bynnag, mae a wnelo gofal sylfaenol â mwy na thriniaeth feddygol yn unig. Yr wyf yn falch o weld y meddylfryd cydgysylltiedig y tu ôl i’r strategaeth, sy’n cydnabod pwysigrwydd gofal sylfaenol mewn iechyd gofal ataliol. Mae cysylltiadau â gwasanaethau polisi cymdeithasol, fel tai a’r amgylchedd, yn allweddol i hyn. Fodd bynnag, mae gan addysg ran fawr i’w chwarae o ran gofal iechyd ataliol, o enedigaeth ac yn wir, cyn beichiogi hyd at fywyd ysgol a thu hwnt. Gall y clinigau amrywiol yn ein canolfannau iechyd chwarae rhan fawr yn y rhaglen addysgol honno, yn ogystal â’n hysgolion. Soniodd Gwenda yn gynharach am y rhan y gall ac y mae nyrsys ysgol ei chwarae yn y rhaglen addysgol honno.

Finally, the strategy is ambitious but achievable. All those who want to see a better primary care service in Wales will welcome it.

I gloi, mae’r strategaeth yn uchelgeisiol ond yn gyraeddadwy. Bydd pawb sydd am weld gwasanaeth gofal sylfaenol gwell yng Nghymru yn ei chroesawu.

Jane Hutt The Minister for Health and Social Services spoken in English p. 75

Jane Hutt Y Gweinidog dros Iechyd a Gwasanaethau Cymdeithasol siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 75

I have been delighted with the positive response to the strategy. The debate has been spiced with political differences—and rightly so—but it was good-humoured.

Yr oeddwn wrth fy modd gyda’r ymateb cadarnhaol i’r strategaeth. Rhoddodd y gwahaniaethau gwleidyddol dipyn o dân yn y ddadl—ac mae hynny’n iawn—ond yr oedd yn ddifalais.

Dai started by saying that primary care was care in the hearts of our communities, which summed it up well. The British NHS stands out for its primary care, as Rhodri said earlier. Other parts of the world do not have primary care—hospital-based care predominates. The World Health Organisation recognises that, as David said. It is important that we build and support this universal service in Wales.

Dechreuodd Dai drwy ddweud bod gofal sylfaenol yn ofal yng nghalonnau ein cymunedau; crynhoad da. Mae GIG Prydain yn enwog am ei ofal sylfaenol, fel y dywedodd Rhodri yn gynharach. Nid oes gan rannau eraill o’r byd ofal sylfaenol—mae gofal ar sail ysbyty yn tra-arglwyddiaethu. Cydnabu Sefydliad Iechyd y Byd hynny, fel y dywedodd David. Mae’n bwysig ein bod yn datblygu ac yn cefnogi’r gwasanaeth hwn i bawb yng Nghymru.

Many of my introductory remarks were about tackling health inequalities and inverse care laws, as Dai, Geraint, Christine, Peter and others mentioned. Primary care resource centres—such as the ones developing in Blaenau Gwent and Flintshire—are only one example of the way forward. We will build on that foundation with the extra funding coming to the health service.

Yr oedd llawer o’m sylwadau rhagarweiniol yn ymwneud â mynd i’r afael ag anghydraddoldebau iechyd a deddfau gofal gwrthgyfartal, fel y soniodd Dai, Geraint, Christine, Peter ac eraill. Dim ond un enghraifft o’r ffordd ymlaen yw canolfannau adnoddau gofal sylfaenol—fel y rhai sy’n datblygu ym Mlaenau Gwent a Sir y Fflint. Adeiladwn ar y sail honno gyda’r arian ychwanegol a ddaw i’r gwasanaeth iechyd.

Dai, we are negotiating a new GP contract, which considers quality of care and consultation as part of the key ingredients for a new modernised contract. The golden hello, which I announced today, is only part of the £1 million for recruitment and retention, Geraint and Alun. There are wider issues that we must develop in terms of the working environment. The contract negotiations are considering issues such as salaries and other options. The general medical service in Cynon Valley is already providing salaried schemes, and in Blaenau Gwent a new contract is being developed with the University of Wales School of Medicine.

Dai, yr ydym yn negodi contract newydd i feddygon teulu, sy’n ystyried ansawdd gofal ac ymgynghori fel rhan o’r prif gynhwysion ar gyfer contract newydd wedi ei foderneiddio. Dim ond rhan o’r £1 filiwn ar gyfer recriwtio a chadw yw’r croeso euraid a gyhoeddais heddiw, Geraint ac Alun. Mae materion ehangach y mae’n rhaid inni eu datblygu o ran yr amgylchedd gwaith. Mae’r negodiadau ynglŷn â chontractau yn ystyried materion fel cyflogau ac opsiynau eraill. Mae’r gwasanaeth meddygol cyffredinol yng Nghwm Cynon eisoes yn darparu cynlluniau cyflogi, ac ym Mlaenau Gwent caiff contract newydd ei ddatblygu gydag Ysgol Feddygaeth Prifysgol Cymru.

David, primary care in the strategy puts our new reforms to improve health in Wales at the forefront. It is about enabling primary care to provide the planning and health provision that we need to move forward in our communities.

David, mae gofal sylfaenol yn y strategaeth yn rhoi ein diwygiadau newydd i wella iechyd yng Nghymru ar y brig. Mae a wnelo â galluogi gofal sylfaenol i roi’r ddarpariaeth o ran cynllunio ac iechyd sydd eu hangen arnom i ddatblygu yn ein cymunedau.

Brian Hancock: I wanted to raise a point on an earlier issue. Do you agree with me about the importance of information and communication technologies and e-health in primary care? Do you agree with the need for education, training, support and guidance and the importance of having systems that are compatible with each other in the NHS so that surgery departments communicate with the hospitals and so that other services, such as social services, can be linked to the system? Do you also agree that this is needed in other areas such as dermatology, which is a crucial service in rural areas?

Brian Hancock: Yr oeddwn am godi pwynt ar fater cynharach. A gytunwch â mi ynglŷn â phwysigrwydd technolegau gwybodaeth a chyfathrebu ac e-iechyd ym maes gofal sylfaenol? A gytunwch â’r angen am addysg, hyfforddiant, cymorth ac arweiniad a phwysigrwydd cael systemau sy’n gydnaws â’i gilydd yn y GIG fel y gall adrannau llawfeddygol gyfathrebu â’r ysbytai ac fel y gall gwasanaethau eraill, fel gwasanaethau cymdeithasol, gael eu cysylltu â’r system? A gytunwch hefyd fod angen hyn mewn meysydd eraill fel dermatoleg, sydd yn wasanaeth hollbwysig mewn ardaloedd gwledig?

Jane Hutt spoken in English p. 76

Jane Hutt siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 76

I witnessed telemedicine at work in an eye care clinic in a primary care practice linked with Llandough hospital as part of a diabetic retinopathy scheme. My extra £3 million for ICT, which I announced last week, is part of that.

Gwelais delefeddygaeth ar waith mewn clinig gofal y llygad mewn meddygfa gofal sylfaenol sy’n gysylltiedig ag Ysbyty Llandochau, fel rhan o gynllun retinopathi diabetig. Mae fy £3 miliwn ychwanegol ar gyfer TGCh, a gyhoeddais yr wythnos diwethaf, yn rhan o hynny.

Workforce planning, David, is key to the way forward. However, we have seen an 8 per cent increase in our staff groups that are concerned with primary care between 1997 and 2000. The education available in Wales for medical students has increased by 25 per cent and by 35 per cent for nurses. As you say Kirsty, it is key that we take this forward in terms of the new trainee GPs that we want to attract next year.

Cynllunio’r gweithlu, David, yw’r allwedd i’r ffordd ymlaen. Fodd bynnag, gwelsom gynnydd o 8 y cant yn ein grwpiau staff sy’n ymwneud â gofal cynradd rhwng 1997 a 2000. Mae’r addysg sydd ar gael yng Nghymru i fyfyrwyr meddygol wedi cynyddu 25 y cant a 35 y cant i nyrsys. Fel y dywedasoch, Kirsty, mae’n allweddol ein bod yn datblygu hyn ar gyfer y meddygon teulu newydd dan hyfforddiant yr ydym am eu denu y flwyddyn nesaf.

There is a target to access primary care in 24 hours, Geraint and Alun. That is about the primary care team being available and recognising that GPs are part of that team.

Mae targed i gael gafael ar ofal sylfaenol ymhen 24 awr, Geraint ac Alun. Mae hynny a wnelo â sicrhau bod tîm gofal sylfaenol ar gael a chydnabod bod meddygon teulu yn rhan o’r tîm hwnnw.

The premises are key to the working environment and that is why part of my £3 million announcement is about putting loans, grants and support into the improvement of premises, particularly in our deprived areas. Geraint, you will be pleased to hear that Rhondda is part of that pilot scheme. Deprivation payments are already available to GPs to help them provide the services in our deprived areas.

Mae’r adeiladau yn allweddol i’r amgylchedd gwaith a dyna pam mae rhan o’m cyhoeddiad am £3 miliwn yn ymwneud â rhoi benthyciadau, grantiau a chymorth i wella adeiladau, yn arbennig yn ein hardaloedd difreintiedig. Geraint, byddwch yn falch o glywed bod y Rhondda yn rhan o’r cynllun peilot hwnnw. Mae taliadau amddifadedd eisoes ar gael i feddygon teulu i’w helpu i ddarparu’r gwasanaethau yn ein hardaloedd difreintiedig.

Christine, we had the first women GPs in Cynon Valley because we have the salaried option in Wales, which is important.

Christine, ni a gafodd y meddygon teulu benywaidd cyntaf yng Nghwm Cynon am fod yr opsiwn cyflogedig gennym yng Nghymru, sy’n bwysig.

Kirsty, putting primary care at the forefront is key. Nurse-based teams in the community are part of that. We also heard last week from the Commission for Health Improvement about the multidisciplinary teams which are developing now across Wales where nurses are providing that role, linked through primary care with their GP colleagues and specialist care. That is the way forward for a seamless service that we can provide through a national health service in Wales.

Kirsty, mae rhoi gofal sylfaenol ar y brig yn allweddol. Mae timau o nyrsys yn y gymuned yn rhan o hynny. Clywsom yr wythnos diwethaf hefyd gan y Comisiwn Gwella Iechyd ynglŷn â’r timau amlddisgyblaeth sy’n datblygu yn awr ledled Cymru lle mae nyrsys yn darparu’r rôl honno, wedi’i chysylltu drwy ofal sylfaenol gyda’u meddygon teulu a gofal arbenigol. Dyna’r ffordd ymlaen ar gyfer gwasanaeth llyfn y gallwn ei ddarparu drwy wasanaeth iechyd gwladol yng Nghymru.

Christine, I have heard about the Cancer Care Society’s decision to pull out of Wales. That is extremely disappointing and I have called for an urgent meeting on that.

Christine, clywais am benderfyniad y Gymdeithas Gofal Canser i dynnu allan o Gymru. Mae hynny’n siom fawr ac yr wyf wedi galw am gyfarfod brys ar hynny.

Elin, we will have a dental strategy on which we will consult. We are increasing the money to our dental strategy to ensure that the dental grant scheme can be made available.

Elin, bydd gennym strategaeth ddeintyddol yr ymgynghorwn arni. Yr ydym yn cynyddu’r arian i’n strategaeth ddeintyddol er mwyn sicrhau bod y cynllun grant deintyddol ar gael.

Pauline Jarman a gododd—

Pauline Jarman rose—

Jane Hutt spoken in English p. 78

Jane Hutt siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 78

I have two minutes, Pauline, if you could be brief.

Mae gennyf ddwy funud, Pauline, os gallech fod yn fyr.

Pauline Jarman spoken in English p. 78

Pauline Jarman siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 78

I notified you of the Cancer Care Society’s decision. This should be a non-political issue. Could I be included in any discussions that you have regarding the retention of these services in the Cynon Valley and Merthyr and also the expansion programme in the Rhondda?

Myfi a’ch hysbysodd am benderfyniad y Gymdeithas Gofal Canser. Dylai hyn fod yn fater anwleidyddol. A wnewch chi fy nghynnwys mewn unrhyw drafodaethau a gewch o ran cadw’r gwasanaethau hyn yng Nghwm Cynon a Merthyr a’r rhaglen ehangu hefyd yn y Rhondda?

Jane Hutt spoken in English p. 78

Jane Hutt siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 78

I am sure that there will be concern across the Assembly, as there was regarding The Children’s Society, about decisions of this kind. I will keep Members informed of the urgent consultations that I have with the Cancer Care Society.

Yr wyf yn siŵr y bydd pryder yn gyffredinol yn y Cynulliad, fel yr oedd gyda Chymdeithas y Plant, ynglŷn â phenderfyniadau o’r math hwn. Byddaf yn hysbysu’r Aelodau yn rheolaidd am yr ymgynghoriadau brys a gaf gyda’r Gymdeithas Gofal Canser.

Gwenda and Ann have talked about the importance of the public health perspective. Gwenda summed it up by saying that broad-based primary care should be forged to tackle health inequalities in communities. Again, Gwenda rightly drew attention to the needs of children and child protection. Our structural reforms will enable us to have a Team Wales approach to child protection as well as local delivery through our local health boards.

Soniodd Gwenda ac Ann am bwysigrwydd y persbectif iechyd cyhoeddus. Crynhowyd hyn gan Gwenda pan ddywedodd y dylid llunio gofal sylfaenol eang i fynd i’r afael ag anghydraddoldebau iechyd mewn cymunedau. Unwaith eto, tynnwyd sylw’n briodol gan Gwenda at anghenion plant a diogelwch plant. Bydd ein diwygiadau strwythurol yn ein galluogi i fabwysiadu ymagwedd Tîm Cymru tuag at ddiogelu plant yn ogystal â chyflwyno’n lleol drwy ein byrddau iechyd lleol.

This issue is about having a health service, Ann, and not a sickness service. That can be demonstrated through primary care.

Mae a wnelo’r mater hwn â gwasanaeth iechyd Ann, ac nid â gwasanaeth salwch. Gellir arddangos hynny drwy ofal sylfaenol.

Finally, Kirsty, the internal market has gone. It is no longer part of developing our primary care strategy but also through primary care teams, which include occupational therapists, physiotherapists, and speech therapists—which David and Alun mentioned. It is important that we recognise that this is the way forward. We can develop a seamless service if we focus on primary care and ensure that my investment of £3.1 million into primary care last year is fulfilled. This, and the additional £31 million that I announced for health authorities last week, as a result of the extra £49.3 million from the Chancellor’s pre-budget statement, will all make a difference this year and next year to investing in primary care and to ensuring that our primary care colleagues can work in partnership with their colleagues in secondary care. There is pressure on the service. However, we know that through preventative primary care working in teams, we will make the sort of difference that tackles the health inequalities and the ill health of Wales, and make Wales a place where GPs, nurses and all the health professionals move to in order to work in primary care in our communities.

I gloi, Kirsty, diflannodd y farchnad fewnol. Nid yw bellach yn rhan o ddatblygu ein strategaeth gofal sylfaenol ond hefyd drwy dimau gofal sylfaenol, sy’n cynnwys therapyddion galwedigaethol, ffisiotherapyddion, a therapyddion lleferydd—y soniodd David ac Alun amdanynt. Mae’n bwysig ein bod yn cydnabod mai dyma’r ffordd ymlaen. Gallwn ddatblygu gwasanaeth llyfn os canolbwyntiwn ar ofal sylfaenol a sicrhau y cyflawnir y swm o £3.1 miliwn a fuddsoddwyd mewn gofal sylfaenol y llynedd. Bydd hwn, a’r £31 miliwn ychwanegol a gyhoeddais ar gyfer awdurdodau iechyd yr wythnos diwethaf, o ganlyniad i’r £49.3 miliwn ychwanegol o ddatganiad y Canghellor cyn y gyllideb, yn gwneud gwahaniaeth mawr eleni a’r flwyddyn nesaf o ran buddsoddi mewn gofal sylfaenol a sicrhau y gall ein cydweithwyr ym maes gofal sylfaenol weithio mewn partneriaeth â’u cydweithwyr ym maes gofal eilaidd. Mae pwysau ar y gwasanaeth. Fodd bynnag, gwyddom y gallwn drwy waith gofal sylfaenol ataliol mewn timau, wneud y math o wahaniaeth sy’n mynd i’r afael ag anghydraddoldebau iechyd a salwch Cymru, a gwneud Cymru yn rhywle lle y gall meddygon teulu, nyrsys a phob gweithiwr iechyd proffesiynol symud iddo er mwyn gweithio ym maes gofal sylfaenol yn ein cymunedau.

John Marek The Deputy Presiding Officer spoken in English p. 79

John Marek Y Dirprwy Lywydd siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 79

I remind you that if you take interventions, I take them as time out of your speaking time. You still had a minute left, but that is for next time.

Hoffwn eich atgoffa, os cymerwch ymyriadau, y byddaf yn eu tynnu o’ch amser siarad. Yr oedd gennych funud ar ôl, ond mae hynny ar gyfer y tro nesaf.

Gwelliant 1 David Lloyd t. 79

Amendment 1 David Lloyd p. 79

GwrthodwydRejected O blaidFor 22 YmatalAbstain 0 Yn erbynAgainst 30

Gwrthodwyd y gwelliant.

Amendment defeated.

Sut y pleidleisiodd yr AelodauHow Members voted
O blaidFor (22)
  • Nick Bourne
  • Alun Cairns
  • David Davies
  • Geraint Davies
  • Glyn Davies
  • Janet Davies
  • William Graham
  • Brian Hancock
  • Pauline Jarman
  • Elin Jones
  • Gareth Jones
  • Helen Mary Jones
  • Ieuan Wyn Jones
  • David Lloyd
  • David Melding
  • Jonathan Morgan
  • Peter Rogers
  • Janet Ryder
  • Owen John Thomas
  • Rhodri Glyn Thomas
  • Dafydd Wigley
  • Phil Williams
Yn erbynAgainst (30)
  • Lorraine Barrett
  • Mick Bates
  • Peter Black
  • Eleanor Burnham
  • Rosemary Butler
  • Christine Chapman
  • Jane Davidson
  • Andrew Davies
  • Ron Davies
  • Sue Essex
  • Delyth Evans
  • Michael German
  • Brian Gibbons
  • Janice Gregory
  • John Griffiths
  • Christine Gwyther
  • Jane Hutt
  • Ann Jones
  • Carwyn Jones
  • Peter Law
  • Huw Lewis
  • Val Lloyd
  • Tom Middlehurst
  • Rhodri Morgan
  • Lynne Neagle
  • Alun Pugh
  • Jenny Randerson
  • Karen Sinclair
  • Gwenda Thomas
  • Kirsty Williams

Gwelliant 3 David Lloyd t. 80

Amendment 3 David Lloyd p. 80

GwrthodwydRejected O blaidFor 23 YmatalAbstain 0 Yn erbynAgainst 29

Gwrthodwyd y gwelliant.

Amendment defeated.

Sut y pleidleisiodd yr AelodauHow Members voted
O blaidFor (23)
  • Nick Bourne
  • Rosemary Butler
  • Alun Cairns
  • David Davies
  • Geraint Davies
  • Glyn Davies
  • Janet Davies
  • William Graham
  • Brian Hancock
  • Pauline Jarman
  • Elin Jones
  • Gareth Jones
  • Helen Mary Jones
  • Ieuan Wyn Jones
  • David Lloyd
  • David Melding
  • Jonathan Morgan
  • Peter Rogers
  • Janet Ryder
  • Owen John Thomas
  • Rhodri Glyn Thomas
  • Dafydd Wigley
  • Phil Williams
Yn erbynAgainst (29)
  • Lorraine Barrett
  • Mick Bates
  • Peter Black
  • Eleanor Burnham
  • Christine Chapman
  • Jane Davidson
  • Andrew Davies
  • Ron Davies
  • Sue Essex
  • Delyth Evans
  • Michael German
  • Brian Gibbons
  • Janice Gregory
  • John Griffiths
  • Christine Gwyther
  • Jane Hutt
  • Ann Jones
  • Carwyn Jones
  • Peter Law
  • Huw Lewis
  • Val Lloyd
  • Tom Middlehurst
  • Rhodri Morgan
  • Lynne Neagle
  • Alun Pugh
  • Jenny Randerson
  • Karen Sinclair
  • Gwenda Thomas
  • Kirsty Williams

Gwelliant 4 David Melding t. 80

Amendment 4 David Melding p. 80

GwrthodwydRejected O blaidFor 8 YmatalAbstain 0 Yn erbynAgainst 44

Gwrthodwyd y gwelliant.

Amendment defeated.

Sut y pleidleisiodd yr AelodauHow Members voted
O blaidFor (8)
  • Nick Bourne
  • Alun Cairns
  • David Davies
  • Glyn Davies
  • William Graham
  • David Melding
  • Jonathan Morgan
  • Peter Rogers
Yn erbynAgainst (44)
  • Lorraine Barrett
  • Mick Bates
  • Peter Black
  • Eleanor Burnham
  • Rosemary Butler
  • Christine Chapman
  • Jane Davidson
  • Andrew Davies
  • Geraint Davies
  • Janet Davies
  • Ron Davies
  • Sue Essex
  • Delyth Evans
  • Michael German
  • Brian Gibbons
  • Janice Gregory
  • John Griffiths
  • Christine Gwyther
  • Brian Hancock
  • Jane Hutt
  • Pauline Jarman
  • Ann Jones
  • Carwyn Jones
  • Elin Jones
  • Gareth Jones
  • Helen Mary Jones
  • Ieuan Wyn Jones
  • David Lloyd
  • Val Lloyd
  • Peter Law
  • Huw Lewis
  • Tom Middlehurst
  • Rhodri Morgan
  • Lynne Neagle
  • Alun Pugh
  • Jenny Randerson
  • Janet Ryder
  • Karen Sinclair
  • Gwenda Thomas
  • Owen John Thomas
  • Rhodri Glyn Thomas
  • Dafydd Wigley
  • Kirsty Williams
  • Phil Williams

Gwelliant 5 David Lloyd t. 81

Amendment 5 David Lloyd p. 81

GwrthodwydRejected O blaidFor 23 YmatalAbstain 0 Yn erbynAgainst 30

Gwrthodwyd y gwelliant.

Amendment defeated.

Sut y pleidleisiodd yr AelodauHow Members voted
O blaidFor (23)
  • Nick Bourne
  • Alun Cairns
  • Cynog Dafis
  • David Davies
  • Geraint Davies
  • Glyn Davies
  • Janet Davies
  • William Graham
  • Brian Hancock
  • Pauline Jarman
  • Elin Jones
  • Gareth Jones
  • Helen Mary Jones
  • Ieuan Wyn Jones
  • David Lloyd
  • David Melding
  • Jonathan Morgan
  • Peter Rogers
  • Janet Ryder
  • Owen John Thomas
  • Rhodri Glyn Thomas
  • Dafydd Wigley
  • Phil Williams
Yn erbynAgainst (30)
  • Lorraine Barrett
  • Mick Bates
  • Peter Black
  • Eleanor Burnham
  • Rosemary Butler
  • Christine Chapman
  • Jane Davidson
  • Andrew Davies
  • Ron Davies
  • Sue Essex
  • Delyth Evans
  • Michael German
  • Brian Gibbons
  • Janice Gregory
  • John Griffiths
  • Christine Gwyther
  • Jane Hutt
  • Ann Jones
  • Carwyn Jones
  • Peter Law
  • Huw Lewis
  • Val Lloyd
  • Tom Middlehurst
  • Rhodri Morgan
  • Lynne Neagle
  • Alun Pugh
  • Jenny Randerson
  • Karen Sinclair
  • Gwenda Thomas
  • Kirsty Williams

Gwelliant 6 David Lloyd t. 82

Amendment 6 David Lloyd p. 82

GwrthodwydRejected O blaidFor 15 YmatalAbstain 8 Yn erbynAgainst 30

Gwrthodwyd y gwelliant.

Amendment defeated.

Sut y pleidleisiodd yr AelodauHow Members voted
O blaidFor (15)
  • Cynog Dafis
  • Geraint Davies
  • Janet Davies
  • Brian Hancock
  • Pauline Jarman
  • Elin Jones
  • Gareth Jones
  • Helen Mary Jones
  • Ieuan Wyn Jones
  • David Lloyd
  • Janet Ryder
  • Owen John Thomas
  • Rhodri Glyn Thomas
  • Dafydd Wigley
  • Phil Williams
YmatalAbstain (8)
  • Nick Bourne
  • Alun Cairns
  • David Davies
  • Glyn Davies
  • William Graham
  • David Melding
  • Jonathan Morgan
  • Peter Rogers
Yn erbynAgainst (30)
  • Lorraine Barrett
  • Mick Bates
  • Peter Black
  • Eleanor Burnham
  • Rosemary Butler
  • Christine Chapman
  • Jane Davidson
  • Andrew Davies
  • Ron Davies
  • Sue Essex
  • Delyth Evans
  • Michael German
  • Brian Gibbons
  • Janice Gregory
  • John Griffiths
  • Christine Gwyther
  • Jane Hutt
  • Ann Jones
  • Carwyn Jones
  • Peter Law
  • Huw Lewis
  • Val Lloyd
  • Tom Middlehurst
  • Rhodri Morgan
  • Lynne Neagle
  • Alun Pugh
  • Jenny Randerson
  • Karen Sinclair
  • Gwenda Thomas
  • Kirsty Williams

Gwelliant 7 David Melding t. 82

Amendment 7 David Melding p. 82

GwrthodwydRejected O blaidFor 8 YmatalAbstain 14 Yn erbynAgainst 31

Gwrthodwyd y gwelliant.

Amendment defeated.

Sut y pleidleisiodd yr AelodauHow Members voted
O blaidFor (8)
  • Nick Bourne
  • Alun Cairns
  • David Davies
  • Glyn Davies
  • William Graham
  • David Melding
  • Jonathan Morgan
  • Peter Rogers
YmatalAbstain (14)
  • Cynog Dafis
  • Geraint Davies
  • Janet Davies
  • Pauline Jarman
  • Elin Jones
  • Gareth Jones
  • Helen Mary Jones
  • Ieuan Wyn Jones
  • David Lloyd
  • Janet Ryder
  • Owen John Thomas
  • Rhodri Glyn Thomas
  • Dafydd Wigley
  • Phil Williams
Yn erbynAgainst (31)
  • Lorraine Barrett
  • Mick Bates
  • Peter Black
  • Eleanor Burnham
  • Rosemary Butler
  • Christine Chapman
  • Jane Davidson
  • Andrew Davies
  • Ron Davies
  • Sue Essex
  • Delyth Evans
  • Michael German
  • Brian Gibbons
  • Janice Gregory
  • John Griffiths
  • Christine Gwyther
  • Brian Hancock
  • Jane Hutt
  • Ann Jones
  • Carwyn Jones
  • Peter Law
  • Huw Lewis
  • Val Lloyd
  • Tom Middlehurst
  • Rhodri Morgan
  • Lynne Neagle
  • Alun Pugh
  • Jenny Randerson
  • Karen Sinclair
  • Gwenda Thomas
  • Kirsty Williams

Gwelliant 8 David Lloyd t. 83

Amendment 8 David Lloyd p. 83

GwrthodwydRejected O blaidFor 23 YmatalAbstain 0 Yn erbynAgainst 30

Gwrthodwyd y gwelliant.

Amendment defeated.

Sut y pleidleisiodd yr AelodauHow Members voted
O blaidFor (23)
  • Nick Bourne
  • Alun Cairns
  • Cynog Dafis
  • David Davies
  • Geraint Davies
  • Glyn Davies
  • Janet Davies
  • William Graham
  • Brian Hancock
  • Pauline Jarman
  • Elin Jones
  • Gareth Jones
  • Helen Mary Jones
  • Ieuan Wyn Jones
  • David Lloyd
  • David Melding
  • Jonathan Morgan
  • Peter Rogers
  • Janet Ryder
  • Owen John Thomas
  • Rhodri Glyn Thomas
  • Dafydd Wigley
  • Phil Williams
Yn erbynAgainst (30)
  • Lorraine Barrett
  • Mick Bates
  • Peter Black
  • Eleanor Burnham
  • Rosemary Butler
  • Christine Chapman
  • Jane Davidson
  • Andrew Davies
  • Ron Davies
  • Sue Essex
  • Delyth Evans
  • Michael German
  • Brian Gibbons
  • Janice Gregory
  • John Griffiths
  • Christine Gwyther
  • Jane Hutt
  • Ann Jones
  • Carwyn Jones
  • Peter Law
  • Huw Lewis
  • Val Lloyd
  • Tom Middlehurst
  • Rhodri Morgan
  • Lynne Neagle
  • Alun Pugh
  • Jenny Randerson
  • Karen Sinclair
  • Gwenda Thomas
  • Kirsty Williams

Gwelliant 9 David Lloyd t. 84

Amendment 9 David Lloyd p. 84

GwrthodwydRejected O blaidFor 23 YmatalAbstain 0 Yn erbynAgainst 29

Gwrthodwyd y gwelliant.

Amendment defeated.

Sut y pleidleisiodd yr AelodauHow Members voted
O blaidFor (23)
  • Nick Bourne
  • Alun Cairns
  • Cynog Dafis
  • David Davies
  • Geraint Davies
  • Glyn Davies
  • Janet Davies
  • William Graham
  • Brian Hancock
  • Pauline Jarman
  • Elin Jones
  • Gareth Jones
  • Helen Mary Jones
  • Ieuan Wyn Jones
  • David Lloyd
  • David Melding
  • Jonathan Morgan
  • Peter Rogers
  • Janet Ryder
  • Owen John Thomas
  • Rhodri Glyn Thomas
  • Dafydd Wigley
  • Phil Williams
Yn erbynAgainst (29)
  • Lorraine Barrett
  • Mick Bates
  • Peter Black
  • Eleanor Burnham
  • Rosemary Butler
  • Christine Chapman
  • Jane Davidson
  • Andrew Davies
  • Sue Essex
  • Delyth Evans
  • Michael German
  • Brian Gibbons
  • Janice Gregory
  • John Griffiths
  • Christine Gwyther
  • Jane Hutt
  • Ann Jones
  • Carwyn Jones
  • Peter Law
  • Huw Lewis
  • Val Lloyd
  • Tom Middlehurst
  • Rhodri Morgan
  • Lynne Neagle
  • Alun Pugh
  • Jenny Randerson
  • Karen Sinclair
  • Gwenda Thomas
  • Kirsty Williams

Gwelliant 10 David Melding t. 84

Amendment 10 David Melding p. 84

GwrthodwydRejected O blaidFor 8 YmatalAbstain 15 Yn erbynAgainst 30

Gwrthodwyd y gwelliant.

Amendment defeated.

Sut y pleidleisiodd yr AelodauHow Members voted
O blaidFor (8)
  • Nick Bourne
  • Alun Cairns
  • David Davies
  • Glyn Davies
  • William Graham
  • David Melding
  • Jonathan Morgan
  • Peter Rogers
YmatalAbstain (15)
  • Cynog Dafis
  • Geraint Davies
  • Janet Davies
  • Brian Hancock
  • Pauline Jarman
  • Elin Jones
  • Gareth Jones
  • Helen Mary Jones
  • Ieuan Wyn Jones
  • David Lloyd
  • Janet Ryder
  • Owen John Thomas
  • Rhodri Glyn Thomas
  • Dafydd Wigley
  • Phil Williams
Yn erbynAgainst (30)
  • Lorraine Barrett
  • Mick Bates
  • Peter Black
  • Eleanor Burnham
  • Rosemary Butler
  • Christine Chapman
  • Jane Davidson
  • Andrew Davies
  • Ron Davies
  • Sue Essex
  • Delyth Evans
  • Michael German
  • Brian Gibbons
  • Janice Gregory
  • John Griffiths
  • Christine Gwyther
  • Jane Hutt
  • Ann Jones
  • Carwyn Jones
  • Peter Law
  • Huw Lewis
  • Val Lloyd
  • Tom Middlehurst
  • Rhodri Morgan
  • Lynne Neagle
  • Alun Pugh
  • Jenny Randerson
  • Karen Sinclair
  • Gwenda Thomas
  • Kirsty Williams

DerbyniwydAdopted O blaidFor 30 YmatalAbstain 15 Yn erbynAgainst 8

Derbyniwyd y cynnig.

Motion carried.

Sut y pleidleisiodd yr AelodauHow Members voted
O blaidFor (30)
  • Lorraine Barrett
  • Mick Bates
  • Peter Black
  • Eleanor Burnham
  • Rosemary Butler
  • Christine Chapman
  • Jane Davidson
  • Andrew Davies
  • Ron Davies
  • Sue Essex
  • Delyth Evans
  • Michael German
  • Brian Gibbons
  • Janice Gregory
  • John Griffiths
  • Christine Gwyther
  • Jane Hutt
  • Ann Jones
  • Carwyn Jones
  • Peter Law
  • Huw Lewis
  • Val Lloyd
  • Tom Middlehurst
  • Rhodri Morgan
  • Lynne Neagle
  • Alun Pugh
  • Jenny Randerson
  • Karen Sinclair
  • Gwenda Thomas
  • Kirsty Williams
YmatalAbstain (15)
  • Cynog Dafis
  • Geraint Davies
  • Janet Davies
  • Brian Hancock
  • Pauline Jarman
  • Elin Jones
  • Gareth Jones
  • Helen Mary Jones
  • Ieuan Wyn Jones
  • David Lloyd
  • Janet Ryder
  • Owen John Thomas
  • Rhodri Glyn Thomas
  • Dafydd Wigley
  • Phil Williams
Yn erbynAgainst (8)
  • Nick Bourne
  • Alun Cairns
  • David Davies
  • Glyn Davies
  • William Graham
  • David Melding
  • Jonathan Morgan
  • Peter Rogers

Adroddiad y Pwyllgor Llywodraeth Leol a Thai ar y Mesur Digartrefedd

The Local Government and Housing Committee Report on the Homelessness Bill

Gwenda Thomas spoken in English p. 86

Gwenda Thomas siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 86

I propose that

Cynigiaf fod

Gwenda Thomas (continued) spoken in English p. 86

Gwenda Thomas (parhad) siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 86

The Local Government and Housing Committee considered the Bill’s implications for Wales at its meeting on 24 October. The Committee recognises that the Homelessness Bill will provide a new framework for driving forward the agenda to tackle homelessness in Wales.

Ystyriodd y Pwyllgor Llywodraeth Leol a Thai oblygiadau’r Mesur i Gymru yn ei gyfarfod ar 24 Hydref. Mae’r Pwyllgor yn cydnabod y bydd y Mesur Digartrefedd yn rhoi fframwaith newydd ar gyfer datblygu’r agenda i fynd i’r afael â digartrefedd yng Nghymru.

The Bill contains provisions that would require local authorities to carry out homelessness reviews and formulate homelessness strategies within a five-year cycle. The reviews will be required to cover the levels of homelessness, the activities undertaken to prevent or address homelessness, and the resources available to tackle such activities. The strategies will cover prevention of homelessness, and the provision of accommodation and support for homeless persons.

Mae’r Mesur yn cynnwys darpariaethau a fyddai’n ei gwneud yn ofynnol i awdurdodau lleol gynnal adolygiadau o ddigartrefedd a llunio strategaethau digartrefedd o fewn cylch o bum mlynedd. Bydd yn ofynnol i’r adolygiadau gwmpasu’r lefelau o ddigartrefedd, y gweithgareddau a gynhelir i atal neu fynd i’r afael â digartrefedd, a’r adnoddau sydd ar gael i fynd i’r afael â gweithgareddau o’r fath. Bydd y strategaethau yn cwmpasu atal digartrefedd, a rhoi llety a chymorth i bobl ddigartref.

I understand that the Minister for Finance, Local Government and Communities proposes to introduce guidance for local authorities to assist the development of local homeless strategies, and in doing so, intends to utilise the work of the Homelessness Commission as a basis for further consultation. As a member of that commission, I am particularly pleased to see its recommendations being acted upon.

Deallaf fod y Gweinidog dros Gyllid, Llywodraeth Leol a Chymunedau yn cynnig cyflwyno canllawiau ar gyfer awdurdodau lleol i gynorthwyo â’r gwaith o ddatblygu strategaethau digartrefedd lleol, ac wrth wneud hynny, yn bwriadu defnyddio gwaith y Comisiwn Digartrefedd yn sail ar gyfer ymgynghori pellach. Fel aelod o’r comisiwn hwnnw, mae’n dda gennyf weld ei argymhellion yn cael eu rhoi ar waith.

The development of local homelessness strategies is not new to many of our Welsh local authorities, who have been developing them prior to the passage of the Bill. I understand that the Welsh Assembly Government has already provided funds to at least nine authorities that are undertaking this work and I am sure that it will continue to do so.

Nid yw datblygu strategaethau digartrefedd lleol yn newydd i nifer o’n hawdurdodau lleol yng Nghymru, sydd wedi bod yn eu datblygu hwy cyn cyflwyno’r Mesur yn Nhŷ’r Cyffredin. Deallaf fod Llywodraeth Cynulliad Cymru eisoes wedi darparu arian i o leiaf naw awdurdod sy’n gwneud y gwaith hwn ac yr wyf yn siŵr y bydd yn parhau i wneud hynny.

The Bill’s other main provisions remove the requirements on local authorities to maintain housing registers, but they require local authorities to consider a person’s housing application and to include choice in their scheme for the allocation of housing. ‘Betterwales.com’ already commits the National Assembly for Wales to increased choice for people applying for social housing; this provision adds weight to that policy.

Mae prif ddarpariaethau eraill y Mesur yn dileu’r gofynion ar awdurdodau lleol i gadw cofrestrau tai, ond maent yn ei gwneud yn ofynnol i awdurdodau lleol ystyried cais pobl am dai ac i gynnwys dewis yn eu cynllun ar gyfer dyrannu tai. Mae ‘Gwellcymru.com’ eisoes yn ymrwymo Cynulliad Cenedlaethol Cymru i roi mwy o ddewis i bobl sy’n gwneud cais ar gyfer tai cymdeithasol; mae’r ddarpariaeth hon yn ychwanegu grym i’r polisi hwnnw.

The Homelessness Bill has passed through the various stages in the House of Commons and has received its second reading in the House of Lords. It is expected to receive Royal Assent in the near future. The Bill contains more or less the same homelessness provisions that were contained in the previous Homes Bill, for which the National Assembly for Wales had expressed its support, and which fell in the run up to the June parliamentary elections. The Local Government and Housing Committee commends this Bill to the National Assembly for Wales. The Bill contains devolved powers for its commencement in Wales and the Local Government and Housing Committee recommends that an Order to bring the Act into effect in Wales be produced at the earliest opportunity once the Bill has received Royal Assent.

Mae’r Mesur Digartrefedd wedi mynd drwy’r amrywiol gamau yn Nhŷ’r Cyffredin ac wedi derbyn ei ail ddarlleniad yn Nhŷ’r Arglwyddi. Disgwylir iddo dderbyn Cydsyniad Brenhinol yn y dyfodol agos. Mae’r Mesur yn cynnwys mwy neu lai yr un darpariaethau digartrefedd a gynhwyswyd yn y Mesur Cartrefi blaenorol, yr oedd Cynulliad Cenedlaethol Cymru wedi mynegi ei gefnogaeth ar ei gyfer, ac a fethodd yn y cyfnod a arweiniai at etholiadau seneddol Mehefin. Mae’r Pwyllgor Llywodraeth Leol a Thai yn cymeradwyo’r Mesur hwn i Gynulliad Cenedlaethol Cymru. Mae’r Mesur yn cynnwys pwerau datganoledig ar gyfer ei gychwyn yng Nghymru ac mae’r Pwyllgor Llywodraeth Leol a Thai yn argymell y caiff Gorchymyn i ddwyn y Ddeddf i rym yng Nghymru ei gynhyrchu ar y cyfle cyntaf ar ôl i’r Mesur dderbyn Cydsyniad Brenhinol.

Janet Ryder spoken in English p. 88

Janet Ryder siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 88

Homelessness is a multi-faceted issue and no two cases are the same. The causes of homelessness are many and varied, and that should be reflected in our dealings with it. The Assembly’s commitment to dealing with this major form of social exclusion is evidenced by the amount of debating time dedicated to it and by the establishment of the Homelessness Commission in Wales. There is a great deal of cross-party support for the measures already taken to eradicate homelessness and its many causes and much praise has rightly been given to the groups who work on this issue. There will always be differences in emphasis between the political parties as to how homelessness should be dealt with and I doubt that you would expect that we would agree on the financing of this. However, there is much consensus on this issue. I will concentrate mainly on the support that is needed to prevent and help people out of homelessness.

Mae digartrefedd yn fater aml-weddog ac nid oes unrhyw ddau achos yr un peth. Mae’r rhesymau dros ddigartrefedd yn niferus ac amrywiol, a dylai hynny gael ei adlewyrchu yn ein hymwneud ag ef. Gwelir tystiolaeth o ymrwymiad y Cynulliad i ymdrin â’r math sylweddol hwn o allgáu cymdeithasol yn yr amser a neilltuir i’w drafod a chan y penderfyniad i sefydlu’r Comisiwn Digartrefedd yng Nghymru. Mae cryn dipyn o gefnogaeth drawsbleidiol i’r mesurau sydd eisoes wedi’u cymryd i ddileu digartrefedd a’i achosion niferus ac mae llawer o ganmoliaeth, a hynny’n deilwng, wedi’i rhoi i’r grwpiau sy’n gweithio ar y mater hwn. Bydd gwahaniaethau mewn pwyslais rhwng pleidiau gwleidyddol o hyd o ran sut y dylid delio â digartrefedd ac yr wyf yn amau a fyddech yn disgwyl y byddem yn cytuno ar ariannu hyn. Fodd bynnag, mae llawer o gonsensws ar y mater hwn. Canolbwyntiaf yn bennaf ar y cymorth sydd ei angen i atal digartrefedd a chynorthwyo pobl i gael cartref.

As each case is different, the support offered must be centred on the individual. It has already been widely recognised that homelessness is more than a housing issue. Hopefully, the homelessness strategy, currently being drawn up by the commission, will guide and inform the local strategies called for in this Bill. However, as I said in the debate on 20 November, these local strategies need to form part of a much wider picture. They must be part of the housing, health and education strategies, and form part of the overall community strategy of authorities, giving a strategic overview to housing support. One main feature of this Bill is that it gives a strategic focus to homelessness, imposing new strategic duties on housing authorities while strengthening individual rights and leading to the development of more choice for homeless people. We need to be imaginative in the kind of support offered to ensure that that support equips vulnerable people to become independent members of their communities.

Gan fod pob achos yn wahanol, rhaid bod y cymorth a gynigir yn canolbwyntio ar yr unigolyn. Cydnabuwyd yn gyffredinol eisoes fod digartrefedd yn fwy na mater tai. Gobeithio y bydd y strategaeth ddigartrefedd, sy’n cael ei llunio ar hyn o bryd gan y comisiwn, yn arwain ac yn llywio’r strategaethau lleol y gelwir amdanynt yn y Mesur hwn. Fodd bynnag, fel y dywedais yn y ddadl ar 20 Tachwedd, bydd angen i’r strategaethau ffurfio rhan o ddarlun llawer ehangach. Rhaid iddynt fod yn rhan o strategaethau tai, iechyd ac addysg, a ffurfio rhan o strategaeth gymunedol gyffredinol awdurdodau, gan roi trosolwg strategol i gymorth tai. Un brif nodwedd o’r Mesur hwn yw ei fod yn rhoi ffocws strategol i ddigartrefedd, yn gosod dyletswyddau strategol newydd ar awdurdodau lleol tra’n cryfhau hawliau unigol ac arwain at ddatblygu mwy o ddewis ar gyfer pobl ddigartref. Rhaid inni fod yn greadigol o ran y math o gymorth a gynigir i sicrhau bod cymorth yn galluogi pobl ddiamddiffyn i ddod yn aelodau annibynnol o’u cymunedau.

The kind of support and advice offered throughout Wales still differs widely. While that takes into account differences between communities and, therefore, the different types of advice needed, there should be a way of ensuring a common baseline of services. While it is fine to legislate such advice to be available, people need to know where and how to access it. A young person who finds himself or herself homeless for whatever reason is not always best served by well-intentioned advice from friends. Work is being done on this in some areas and we should perhaps be looking at ways of spreading examples of best practice. To finance these support services, we must look creatively at how supported housing revenue grant or transitional housing benefit is made available for use. The debate around Supporting People needs to fully explore this and hopefully lead to a Supporting People revenue grant that will allow for a change in emphasis away from a system that heavily favours bricks and mortar. Having said that a shift in emphasis must take place, adequate allowances must also be made to enable authorities to meet one of the new requirements placed on them, namely to offer a choice of accommodation.

Mae’r math o gymorth a chyngor a gynigir ledled Cymru yn gwahaniaethu yn eang o hyd. Er bod hynny yn dwyn i ystyriaeth wahaniaethau rhwng cymunedau ac, felly, y gwahanol fathau o gyngor sydd eu hangen, dylai fod ffordd o sicrhau gwaelodlin cyffredin gwasanaethau. Tra’i bod yn iawn i ddeddfu bod cyngor o’r fath ar gael, mae angen i bobl wybod ble a sut i gael mynediad iddo. Nid cyngor gan ffrindiau yw’r peth gorau bob tro i berson ifanc sy’n cael ei hun yn ddigartref am ba bynnag reswm. Mae gwaith yn cael ei wneud ar hyn mewn rhai meysydd ac efallai y dylem fod yn edrych ar ffyrdd o ledaenu enghreifftiau o arfer da. Er mwyn ariannu’r gwasanaethau cymorth hyn, rhaid inni edrych yn greadigol ar y modd y caiff grant refeniw tai â chymorth neu fudd-dal tai trosiannol ei ryddhau. Mae angen i’r ddadl ynghylch Cynorthwyo Pobl ymchwilio i hyn yn llawn a’r gobaith yw y bydd yn arwain at grant refeniw Cynorthwyo Pobl a fydd yn caniatáu newid mewn pwyslais i ffwrdd o system sy’n ffafrio rhoi pwyslais mawr ar friciau a mortar. Wedi dweud hynny rhaid i newid mewn pwyslais ddigwydd, ynghyd ag ystyriaethau digonol i alluogi awdurdodau i fodloni un o’r gofynion newydd a osodir arnynt, sef cynnig dewis lle i fyw.

There are many examples of authorities and housing associations attempting to develop accommodation only to be met by strong local opposition, whereby everyone accepts that this form of accommodation is necessary but thinks that the chosen location is wrong. It is the ‘not in my back yard’ syndrome. There have been recent cases of that in Bangor and Ruthin, to cite just two. Councillors taking the final decision have a difficult job in balancing the best interests of their community as a whole with the objections of local constituents. They should be given as much support as possible but ultimately they are fulfilling the role that they were elected to do: to govern locally. Burying such decisions in inquiries and further investigations is ultimately no help to anyone.

Ceir llawer o enghreifftiau o awdurdodau a chymdeithasau tai yn ceisio datblygu lleoedd i fyw ond yn wynebu gwrthwynebiad lleol cryf yn yr ystyr bod pawb yn derbyn bod y math hwn o lety yn angenrheidiol ond yn credu bod y lleoliad yn anghywir: sef syndrom ‘nid yn fy iard gefn i’. Bu achosion diweddar o hynny ym Mangor a Rhuthun, i enwi dau yn unig. Mae gan gynghorwyr sy’n gwneud y penderfyniad terfynol waith anodd wrth gydbwyso buddiannau gorau eu cymuned ar y cyfan gyda gwrthwynebiadau etholwyr lleol. Dylid rhoi cymaint o gefnogaeth â phosibl iddynt ond yn y pen draw maent yn cyflawni’r rôl y cawsant eu hethol i’w gwneud: i lywodraethu yn lleol. Nid yw claddu penderfyniadau o’r fath mewn ymchwiliadau pellach yn help i unrhyw un yn y pen draw.

Finally, I will mention an issue that should, perhaps, be part of this Bill: the alteration to the single room supplement in housing benefit for people under 25. This should be altered to enable single people under 25 to claim for self-contained rather than shared accommodation. Perhaps that would remove a major cause of homelessness among young people.

I gloi, crybwyllaf fater a ddylai, efallai, fod yn rhan o’r Mesur hwn: y newid i’r ychwanegiad ystafell sengl mewn budd-dal tai ar gyfer pobl o dan 25. Dylai hwn gael ei newid i alluogi pobl sengl o dan 25 i wneud cais am lety hunan-gynhaliol yn hytrach na llety wedi’i rannu. Efallai y byddai hynny yn cael gwared ar un o brif achosion digartrefedd ymysg pobl ifanc.

John Griffiths spoken in English p. 90

John Griffiths siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 90

I welcome the Homelessness Bill and look forward to a planned, well-thought-out homelessness strategy leading to new and improved services and ways of addressing homelessness in Wales. These strategies will need to be supported by actions on the ground that will make a difference. I look forward to seeing these coming forward. Under clause 8, which introduces a right of review for homeless people on the suitability of accommodation, there will need to be effective monitoring of these reviews to ensure that they are not just token gestures. Guidance will be necessary in this area: for example, how will applicants know and understand that they can ask for a review? Will they be able to use an advocate to support them in such a review? Will they be given a decision in writing? All these are important and need to be addressed.

Croesawaf y Mesur Digartrefedd ac edrychaf ymlaen at strategaeth digartrefedd wedi’i chynllunio’n dda ac yn ofalus sy’n arwain at wasanaethau newydd a gwell a ffyrdd o fynd i’r afael â digartrefedd yng Nghymru. Bydd angen i’r strategaethau hyn gael eu hategu gan weithredoedd ar lawr gwlad a fydd yn gwneud gwahaniaeth. Edrychaf ymlaen i weld y rhain yn dod yn eu blaenau. O dan gymal 8, sy’n cyflwyno hawl adolygu i bobl ddigartref ar addasrwydd lle i fyw, bydd angen i’r adolygiadau hyn gael eu monitro’n effeithiol i sicrhau nad rhywbeth symbolaidd yn unig ydynt. Bydd angen arweiniad yn y maes hwn: er enghraifft, sut y bydd yr ymgeiswyr yn gwybod ac yn deall y gallant ofyn am adolygiad? A fyddant yn gallu defnyddio eiriolwyr i’w cefnogi mewn adolygiad o’r fath? A roddir penderfyniad yn ysgrifenedig iddynt? Mae’r rhain i gyd yn bwysig a bydd angen mynd i’r afael â hwy.

I will also mention clause 13(2), which will give local authorities the power to exclude people for a wide variety of reasons. Because this could vary significantly in different authorities, applicants will need to be told what constitutes unacceptable behaviour. It would not be possible to specify exactly the black-and-white circumstances, but applicants will need to know as much as possible about what would constitute such behaviour. There is a case, perhaps, for the National Assembly to give guidance to local authorities on how they might interpret this term, ‘unacceptable behaviour’.

Byddaf hefyd yn crybwyll cymal 13(2) a fydd yn rhoi’r pŵer i awdurdodau lleol eithrio pobl am amrywiaeth eang o resymau. Oherwydd y gallai hyn amrywio’n sylweddol mewn gwahanol awdurdodau, mae angen dweud wrth ymgeiswyr beth a olygir wrth ymddygiad annerbyniol. Ni fyddai’n bosibl nodi yn union yr amgylchiadau du a gwyn, ond bydd angen i ymgeiswyr wybod cymaint â phosibl ynglŷn â beth fyddai ymddygiad o’r fath yn ei gynnwys. Efallai fod yna achos i’r Cynulliad Cenedlaethol roi arweiniad i awdurdodau lleol ar sut y gallent ddehongli’r term ‘ymddygiad annerbyniol’.

However, in general, I welcome the Bill as a significant step forward.

Fodd bynnag, yn gyffredinol yr wyf yn croesawu’r Mesur fel cam sylweddol ymlaen.

William Graham spoken in English p. 91

William Graham siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 91

The Conservative Party welcomes the Homelessness Bill and recognises that homelessness is one of the most acute forms of social exclusion. It is also a problem that is often identified with urban areas, but it must be remembered that it is equally a rural dilemma. All local authorities should be required to review, formulate and publish a homelessness strategy, and no area of Wales should fail to be given the widest consideration. We recognise the reliance of this Bill on the Housing Act 1996. Members will recall that the Conservative Government introduced that Act, which forms the basis for many of the definitions and specifications that have been incorporated into this Homelessness Bill. For example,

Mae’r Blaid Geidwadol yn croesawu’r Mesur Digartrefedd ac yn cydnabod bod digartrefedd yn un o’r ffurfiau mwyaf llym ar eithrio cymdeithasol. Mae hefyd yn broblem sy’n aml yn cael ei chysylltu ag ardaloedd trefol, ond rhaid cofio ei bod yn gymaint o ddeilema yng nghefn gwlad. Dylai fod yn ofynnol i bob awdurdod lleol adolygu, fformiwleiddio a chyhoeddi strategaeth digartrefedd, a dylid rhoi’r ystyriaeth ehangaf i bob ardal yng Nghymru. Cydnabyddwn ddibyniaeth y Mesur hwn ar Ddeddf Tai 1996. Bydd Aelodau yn cofio i Lywodraeth y Ceidwadwyr gyflwyno’r Ddeddf honno, sy’n sail i nifer o’r diffiniadau a’r manylion sydd wedi’u hymgorffori i’r Mesur Digartrefedd hwn. Er enghraifft,

‘Accommodation shall be regarded as available for a person’s occupation only if it is available for occupation by him together with (a) any other person who normally resides with him as a member of his family, or (b) any other person who might reasonably be expected to reside with him.’

It is interesting that the Act also defines a person as homeless if he or she has accommodation but cannot secure entry to it. Another important definition, which is being carried into this Bill, is that,

Mae’n ddiddorol bod y Ddeddf hefyd yn diffinio person fel person digartref os oes ganddo ef neu hi lety ond yn methu â mynd i mewn iddo. Diffiniad pwysig arall, sy’n cael ei gario i mewn i’r Mesur hwn, yw,

‘It is not reasonable for a person to continue to occupy accommodation if it is probable that this will lead to domestic violence against him, or against (a) a person who normally resides with him as a member of his family, or (b) any other person who might reasonably be expected to reside with him.’

The main implications of this Bill cover aspects of the Housing Act 1996, which would have been implemented by good management practice if they had been undertaken earlier by local authorities.

Mae prif oblygiadau’r Mesur hwn yn cwmpasu agweddau ar Ddeddf Tai 1996, y byddant wedi’u cynnwys fel arfer rheoli da pe bai awdurdodau lleol wedi ymgymryd â hwy ynghynt.

Janet Davies spoken in English p. 91

Janet Davies siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 91

I was pleased to hear the Chair of the Local Government and Housing Committee refer to the issue of devolution in this Bill because it is important that the Assembly should make all the Orders that arise out of this primary legislation. We need legislation on homelessness that is tailored to the needs of Wales. Homelessness can vary in its forms between England and Wales, and also within Wales, but the Assembly is the central funder and therefore we need legislation that is kind to our way of working in Wales.

Yr oedd yn bleser gennyf glywed Cadeirydd Pwyllgor y Llywodraeth Leol a Thai yn cyfeirio at ddatganoli yn y Mesur hwn gan ei bod yn bwysig y dylai’r Cynulliad wneud yr holl Orchmynion sy’n codi o’r ddeddfwriaeth sylfaenol hon. Mae angen deddfwriaeth ar ddigartrefedd sydd wedi ei theilwra yn ôl anghenion Cymru. Gall digartrefedd amrywio o ran ei ffurfiau rhwng Cymru a Lloegr, a hefyd o fewn Cymru, ond y Cynulliad yw’r ariannydd canolog ac felly mae angen deddfwriaeth arnom sy’n gydnaws â’n ffordd o weithio yng Nghymru.

The issue I am most keen to address is the abolition of waiting lists, which is proposed in this Bill. This is a difficult issue, and we need assurances that certain aspects will be dealt with properly. First, we need structures to ensure fairness, which must be able to prevent slanting to particular individuals’ benefit. Therefore they must be fair and equal. They must also be practical and workable. Housing department staff at the sharp end, whether in councils or housing associations, may find it quite difficult to deal with this legislation. They must be able to defend the procedures with reasonable ease, which may be to clients who are aggrieved and angry or who may feel rejected or misunderstood if they feel that they have been passed over. At the same time, it must be balanced with flexibility to reduce the possible development of ghettos.

Y mater yr wyf fwyaf awyddus i fynd i’r afael ag ef yw diddymu rhestrau aros, a chaiff hyn ei gynnig yn y Mesur hwn. Mae hwn yn fater anodd, ac mae angen sicrwydd arnom yr ymdrinnir ag agweddau penodol yn gywir. Yn gyntaf, mae angen strwythurau arnom i sicrhau tegwch, a rhaid bod y strwythurau hyn yn gallu atal gwyro tuag at fantais unigolion penodol. Felly mae’n rhaid iddynt fod yn deg ac yn gyfartal. Rhaid iddynt hefyd fod yn ymarferol. Efallai y bydd staff rheng flaen adrannau tai pa un ai mewn cynghorau ynteu gymdeithasau tai yn ei chael yn eithaf anodd i ddelio â’r ddeddfwriaeth hon. Rhaid iddynt fod yn gallu amddiffyn y gweithdrefnau yn gymharol rwydd a hynny i gleientiaid sydd o bosibl wedi’u cythruddo ac yn flin neu a all fod yn teimlo eu bod wedi’u diystyru neu wedi’u camddeall os byddant yn teimlo eu bod wedi’u hanwybyddu. Ar yr un pryd, rhaid cydbwyso hyn â hyblygrwydd i leihau’r posibilrwydd y bydd getoau yn datblygu.

This is not easy legislation to put into practice. It must recognise the needs of local people in local communities, some of whom live with their families for long periods. Although such people can now be recognised as technically homeless, we must ensure that legislative Orders that come into effect do not push people into making themselves homeless in order to qualify for housing. That has happened in the past, and this legislation could make the situation worse. Therefore care must be taken to ensure that that does not happen.

Nid yw’n ddeddfwriaeth hawdd i’w rhoi ar waith. Rhaid iddi gydnabod anghenion pobl leol mewn cymunedau lleol, rhai ohonynt sy’n byw gyda’u teuluoedd am gyfnodau hir. Er y gellir nodi pobl o’r fath fel rhai sy’n dechnegol yn ddigartref bellach, rhaid inni sicrhau nad yw Gorchmynion deddfwriaethol sy’n dod i rym yn gwthio pobl i wneud eu hunain yn ddigartref er mwyn bod yn gymwys i gael tŷ. Mae hyn wedi digwydd yn y gorffennol, a gallai’r ddeddfwriaeth hon waethygu’r sefyllfa. Felly rhaid cymryd gofal i sicrhau nad yw hynny’n digwydd.

We must avoid hardship. Victims of domestic violence must be able to move from one area to another, where desirable. We need consistent criteria for sickness eligibility. There should be a scrutiny process and, possibly, the ability to seek a second medical opinion in some instances.

Rhaid inni osgoi caledi. Rhaid bod y rhai sy’n dioddef trais yn y cartref yn gallu symud o un ardal i’r llall, lle y bo hynny’n ddymunol. Mae angen meini prawf cyson arnom ar gyfer cymhwyster salwch. Dylai fod proses graffu ac, o bosibl, y gallu i geisio ail farn feddygol mewn rhai amgylchiadau.

Finally, it was interesting to hear William Graham refer to the close relationship between this Bill and his party’s 1996 Act. I think that that says a lot.

I gloi, yr oedd yn ddiddorol clywed William Graham yn cyfeirio at y berthynas agos rhwng y Mesur hwn a Deddf ei blaid ef yn 1996. Credaf fod hynny’n dweud llawer.

Peter Black The Deputy Minister for Local Government spoken in English p. 93

Peter Black Y Dirprwy Weinidog dros Lywodraeth Leol siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 93

I declare an interest as a member of Swansea City and County council.

Datganaf fuddiant fel aelod o gyngor Dinas a Sir Abertawe.

Tackling homelessness and rough sleeping has been one of the key housing priorities since the formation of the Assembly. It continues to figure highly in the national housing strategy. It is a policy area where we have not just given a commitment, but demonstrated our determination to tackle it with complementary action. We have increased the amount of money that we have made available for homelessness and rough sleeping projects; since 1998 this has increased sevenfold. We continue to give financial priority to tackling the needs of perhaps the most excluded individuals, and we have increased the budget for next year by a further 35 per cent to £4.8 million.

Bu mynd i’r afael â digartrefedd a chysgu ar y stryd yn un o’r blaenoriaethau tai allweddol ers ffurfio’r Cynulliad. Mae’n parhau i fod yn rhan bwysig o’r strategaeth dai genedlaethol. Mae’n faes polisi lle nad ydym wedi rhoi ymrwymiad yn unig, ond wedi dangos ein penderfyniad i fynd i’r afael ag ef â chamau gweithredu ategol. Yr ydym wedi cynyddu’r swm o arian a ddarperir ar gyfer prosiectau digartrefedd a chysgu ar y stryd; ers 1998 mae hyn wedi cynyddu saith gwaith. Yr ydym yn parhau i roi blaenoriaeth ariannol i fynd i’r afael ag anghenion yr unigolion sydd wedi’u hallgáu fwyaf o bosibl, ac yr ydym wedi cynyddu’r gyllideb ar gyfer y flwyddyn nesaf 35 y cant pellach i £4.8 miliwn.

We have used our legislative power to bring more vulnerable people into the category of priority homeless, which now means that local authorities have a statutory responsibility to ensure that 16 to 17-year-olds, victims of domestic violence, ex-prisoners and other vulnerable groups are assisted. The Assembly can be proud of the fact that it took such action before any other administration in the United Kingdom.

Yr ydym wedi defnyddio ein pŵer deddfwriaethol i sicrhau bod mwy o bobl ddiamddiffyn yn y categori o ddigartrefedd blaenoriaethol, sydd yn golygu bellach bod ar awdurdodau lleol gyfrifoldeb statudol i sicrhau y caiff pobl ifanc 16 ac 17 mlwydd oed, sy’n dioddef trais yn y cartref, cyn-garcharorion a grwpiau diamddiffyn eraill eu cynorthwyo. Gall y Cynulliad ymfalchïo yn y ffaith iddo gymryd camau gweithredu o’r fath cyn unrhyw weinyddiaeth arall yn y Deyrnas Unedig.

David Davies spoken in English p. 93

David Davies siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 93

Why does the Minister think that it is right for ex-prisoners to be treated more favourably than those who have never broken the law?

Pam y cred y Gweinidog ei bod yn gywir i gyn-garcharorion gael eu trin yn fwy ffafriol na’r rhai nad ydynt erioed wedi torri’r gyfraith?

Peter Black spoken in English p. 93

Peter Black siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 93

I have lost count of the number of times that you have raised this point with me, David. I continue to give you the same answer, namely that evidence and research has shown that ex-prisoners are more likely to re-offend if they are not re-housed and found satisfactory employment. That is why it is important—

Yr wyf wedi colli cyfrif ar y nifer o weithiau yr ydych wedi codi’r pwynt hwn gyda mi, David. Yr wyf yn parhau i roi’r un ateb ichi, sef bod tystiolaeth ac ymchwil wedi dangos bod cyn-garcharorion yn fwy tebygol o ail-droseddu oni chânt eu hail-gartrefu ac oni chânt waith boddhaol. Dyna pam y mae’n bwysig—

David Davies spoken in English p. 94

David Davies siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 94

Forget about the people who have not broken the law.

Anghofiwch am y bobl nad ydynt wedi torri’r gyfraith.

Peter Black spoken in English p. 94

Peter Black siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 94

I did not heckle you when you were speaking, David.

Ni weiddais ar eich traws chi pan oeddech yn siarad David.

This is why we have placed an emphasis on ensuring that people leaving prison, having served their sentence, are given accommodation.

Dyna pam ein bod wedi rhoi pwyslais ar sicrhau bod pobl sy’n gadael y carchar, ar ôl cwblhau eu dedfryd, yn cael lle i fyw.

Peter Law spoken in English p. 94

Peter Law siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 94

Do you agree that, unlike Conservatives, ex-prisoners are human beings, which is why they need to be looked after?

A gytunwch fod cyn garcharorion, yn wahanol i Geidwadwyr, yn fodau dynol, a dyna pam y mae angen gofalu amdanynt?

Peter Black spoken in English p. 94

Peter Black siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 94

I will continue. You made the point very well, Peter.

Af ymlaen. Gwnaethoch y pwynt yn dda iawn, Peter.

As I said, the Assembly can be proud of the fact that it took such action before any other administration in the United Kingdom. Only now are others following suit. In many ways, the most important action that we have taken in the long-term eradication of homelessness in Wales was the formation of the Homelessness Commission, and its subsequent report, which contained 91 recommendations. As we take forward many of these recommendations, I am convinced that they will produce a long-lasting solution to the problem. We will be able to tackle not just the effect, but also the underlying causes of homelessness, dealing with prevention as well as support.

Fel y dywedais, gall y Cynulliad ymfalchïo yn y ffaith ei fod wedi cymryd camau felly cyn unrhyw weinyddiaeth arall yn y Deyrnas Unedig. Dim ond yn awr y mae eraill yn dilyn. Mewn sawl ffordd, y cam gweithredu pwysicaf yr ydym wedi’i gymryd wrth ddileu digartrefedd yn yr hirdymor yng Nghymru oedd ffurfio’r Comisiwn Digartrefedd, a’i adroddiad dilynol, a oedd yn cynnwys 91 o argymhellion. Wrth inni ddatblygu llawer o’r argymhellion hyn, yr wyf wedi fy argyhoeddi y byddant yn rhoi ateb parhaol i’r broblem. Byddwn yn gallu mynd i’r afael nid yn unig â’r effaith, ond hefyd achosion sylfaenol digartrefedd, gan atal digartrefedd yn ogystal â rhoi cymorth.

One of the key findings of the Homelessness Commission was the need for all local authorities to have comprehensive homelessness strategies. The Homelessness Bill complements that recommendation and makes it a statutory requirement for all local authorities. It will provide a new focus for efforts to tackle homelessness and will ensure that local authorities and other statutory and voluntary organisations work in partnership to address the causes and consequences of homelessness in their areas. The Homelessness Commission’s work enabled the National Assembly to anticipate this provision and to draw up its own draft guidelines for local homelessness strategies in advance of the Bill becoming law. These guidelines are now out to consultation. There is no reason why Welsh local councils should not already be considering their strategies, identifying needs, liasing between council departments and talking to other stakeholders such as health authorities and health trusts to begin the necessary work to make the strategies a reality as soon as possible. We have set a target that three quarters of Welsh councils should have these strategies in place by 2003. We believe that this is realistic and attainable, and we are actively encouraging local authorities to work towards that aim.

Un o ganfyddiadau allweddol y Comisiwn Digartrefedd oedd yr angen i bob awdurdod lleol gael strategaethau digartrefedd cynhwysfawr. Mae’r Mesur Digartrefedd yn ategu’r argymhelliad hwnnw ac yn ei gwneud yn ofyniad statudol ar gyfer pob awdurdod lleol. Bydd yn rhoi pwyslais newydd ar yr ymdrechion i fynd i’r afael â digartrefedd ac yn sicrhau bod sefydliadau statudol a gwirfoddol eraill yn gweithio mewn partneriaeth i fynd i’r afael ag achosion a chanlyniadau digartrefedd yn eu hardaloedd. Bu gwaith y Comisiwn Digartrefedd yn fodd i’r Cynulliad Cenedlaethol ragweld y ddarpariaeth hon ac i lunio ei ganllawiau drafft ei hun ar gyfer strategaethau digartrefedd lleol cyn i’r Mesur ddod i rym. Dechreuwyd ymgynghori ynglŷn â’r canllawiau hyn bellach. Nid oes rheswm pam na ddylai cynghorau lleol yng Nghymru eisoes fod yn ystyried eu strategaethau, yn nodi anghenion, yn trafod rhwng adrannau’r cyngor ac yn siarad â budd-ddeiliaid eraill megis awdurdodau iechyd ac ymddiriedolaethau iechyd i ddechrau’r gwaith sydd ei angen i wireddu’r strategaethau cyn gynted â phosibl. Yr ydym wedi nodi targed y dylai tri chwarter o’r cynghorau yng Nghymru roi’r strategaethau hyn ar waith erbyn 2003. Credwn fod hyn yn realistig a bod modd ei gyflawni, ac yr ydym yn annog yr awdurdodau lleol i weithio tuag at y nod hwnnw.

The best way to deal with homelessness is on a local level. Local councils as the strategic housing authority are in the best position to determine needs and spending priorities. We are in the process of reviewing section 180 expenditure to provide some level of certainty to projects that rely on it for long-term core funding. Supporting people will enable local councils to target moneys better at key projects, which will help homeless people. Local homelessness strategies will become an important factor in determining priorities for the allocation of funding for homeless projects around Wales.

Y ffordd orau o ddelio â digartrefedd yw ar lefel leol. Mae cynghorau lleol fel yr awdurdod tai strategol yn y sefyllfa orau i bennu anghenion a blaenoriaethau gwario. Yr ydym yn y broses o adolygu gwariant adran 180 i roi rhywfaint o sicrwydd i brosiectau sy’n dibynnu arno ar gyfer ariannu craidd hir dymor. Bydd pobl sy’n cynorthwyo yn helpu cynghorau lleol i dargedu arian yn well tuag at brosiectau allweddol, a fydd yn helpu pobl ddigartref. Daw strategaethau digartrefedd yn ffactor pwysig wrth bennu blaenoriaethau ar gyfer dyrannu arian ar gyfer prosiectau digartref ledled Cymru.

I welcome the Bill and I want to ensure that we can introduce a necessary commencement Order to bring the Act into effect as soon as possible.

Croesawaf y Mesur ac yr wyf am sicrhau y gallwn gyflwyno Gorchymyn cychwyn angenrheidiol i weithredu’r Ddeddf cyn gynted â phosibl.

Gwenda Thomas spoken in English p. 95

Gwenda Thomas siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 95

In summing up, I will refer to Members’ comments. First, the Local Government and Housing Committee was unanimous in its support of the Bill. The Committee recommends that the provisions are made operational in Wales as soon as possible after the Bill receives Royal Assent. John Griffiths and Janet Davies referred to local authority housing strategies, and, as the Deputy Minister for Local Government stated, local authorities must produce housing strategies that complement the Homelessness Commission’s recommendations. That will ensure that each authority will work in partnership with other local organisations. It will also help establish the true extent of homelessness and will help the National Assembly for Wales gain a better understanding of the problem, to direct resources to meet identified needs and to more effectively achieve our national objectives. The duty on local authorities to consider all applications should encourage a more open approach to meeting housing needs and demand, with less use of blanket exclusion.

Wrth grynhoi, cyfeiriaf at sylwadau’r Aelodau. Yn gyntaf, yr oedd y Pwyllgor Llywodraeth Leol a Thai yn unfrydol yn ei gefnogaeth i’r Mesur. Mae’r Pwyllgor yn argymell y dylid gweithredu’r darpariaethau yng Nghymru cyn gynted â phosibl ar ôl i’r Mesur gael y Cydsyniad Brenhinol. Cyfeiriodd John Griffiths a Janet Davies at strategaethau tai awdurdodau lleol, ac, fel y dywedodd y Dirprwy Weinidog dros Lywodraeth Leol, rhaid i awdurdodau lleol gynhyrchu strategaethau tai sy’n ategu argymhellion y Comisiwn Digartrefedd. Bydd hynny yn sicrhau y bydd pob awdurdod yn gweithio mewn partneriaeth â sefydliadau lleol eraill. Bydd hefyd yn helpu i sefydlu gwir raddau digartrefedd a bydd yn helpu Cynulliad Cenedlaethol Cymru i gael gwell dealltwriaeth o’r broblem, i gyfeirio adnoddau i fodloni anghenion a nodwyd ac i gyflawni ein hamcanion cenedlaethol yn fwy. Dylai’r dyletswydd ar awdurdodau lleol i ystyried pob cais hyrwyddo ymagwedd fwy agored tuag at ddiwallu anghenion a’r galw am dai, gyda llai o ddefnydd o eithrio cyffredinol.

Janet Davies and William Graham referred to domestic violence. The Bill states that people who must flee their homes because of violence, in whatever form, must be treated as homeless and must not be referred back to an area where the threat of violence would persist. Janet Ryder mentioned funding programmes. The Welsh Assembly Government’s funding programmes for homelessness projects have supported the development of housing strategies, the provision of emergency accommodation and outreach services, and have also supported preventative and remedial work. The Deputy Minister referred to the fact that the funding programme is due to be increased by 35 per cent next year to £4.9 million. The Homelessness Commission was set up to advise the National Assembly Government on how the problem may be tackled best in Wales. The report was debated in Plenary in November and it is now out to consultation. The Local Government and Housing Committee will consider the responses later this term when it will also discuss proposals for a national strategy to tackle homelessness. There will be some costs for local authorities in conducting homelessness reviews, for which some assistance will be provided to meet the demands identified through the strategy.

Cyfeiriodd Janet Davies a William Graham at drais yn y cartref. Mae’r mesur yn nodi y caiff pobl sy’n gorfod dianc o’u cartrefi oherwydd trais, o ba fath bynnag, eu trin fel pobl ddigartref ac ni ddylent gael eu cyfeirio yn ôl i ardal lle byddai’r bygythiad o drais yn parhau. Soniodd Janet Ryder am raglenni ariannu. Mae rhaglenni ariannu Llywodraeth Cynulliad Cymru ar gyfer prosiectau digartrefedd wedi cefnogi datblygiad strategaethau tai, darparu llety brys a gwasanaethau allgyrch, ac maent hefyd wedi cefnogi gwaith atal ac adfer. Cyfeiriodd y Dirprwy Weinidog at y ffaith y bwriedir cynyddu’r rhaglen ariannu 35 y cant y flwyddyn nesaf i £4.9 miliwn. Sefydlwyd y Comisiwn Digartrefedd i gynghori Llywodraeth y Cynulliad Cenedlaethol ar y ffordd orau o fynd i’r afael â’r broblem yng Nghymru. Trafodwyd yr adroddiad yn y Cyfarfod Llawn ym mis Tachwedd a bellach dechreuwyd ymgynghori ynglŷn ag ef. Bydd y Pwyllgor Llywodraeth Leol a Thai yn ystyried yr ymatebion yn ddiweddarach yn y tymor hwn pan fydd hefyd yn trafod cynigion ar gyfer strategaeth genedlaethol i fynd i’r afael â digartrefedd. Bydd rhai costau ar gyfer awdurdodau lleol wrth gynnal adolygiadau o ddigartrefedd, a rhoddir peth cymorth i fodloni’r gofynion a nodwyd drwy’r strategaeth.

Cynnig NDM918 Gwenda Thomas t. 96

Motion NDM918 Gwenda Thomas p. 96

DerbyniwydAdopted O blaidFor 45 YmatalAbstain 0 Yn erbynAgainst 0

Derbyniwyd y cynnig.

Motion carried.

Sut y pleidleisiodd yr AelodauHow Members voted
O blaidFor (45)
  • Lorraine Barrett
  • Mick Bates
  • Peter Black
  • Nick Bourne
  • Eleanor Burnham
  • Rosemary Butler
  • Christine Chapman
  • Cynog Dafis
  • Andrew Davies
  • David Davies
  • Geraint Davies
  • Janet Davies
  • Ron Davies
  • Sue Essex
  • Delyth Evans
  • Michael German
  • Brian Gibbons
  • William Graham
  • Janice Gregory
  • John Griffiths
  • Christine Gwyther
  • Brian Hancock
  • Jane Hutt
  • Pauline Jarman
  • Ann Jones
  • Carwyn Jones
  • Elin Jones
  • Gareth Jones
  • Helen Mary Jones
  • Ieuan Wyn Jones
  • Peter Law
  • Huw Lewis
  • David Lloyd
  • Val Lloyd
  • David Melding
  • Tom Middlehurst
  • Jonathan Morgan
  • Lynne Neagle
  • Alun Pugh
  • Jenny Randerson
  • Janet Ryder
  • Karen Sinclair
  • Gwenda Thomas
  • Kirsty Williams
  • Phil Williams

John Marek The Deputy Presiding Officer spoken in English p. 97

John Marek Y Dirprwy Lywydd siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 97

That brings today’s proceedings to a close.

Daw hynny â chyfarfod heddiw i ben.

Daeth y cyfarfod i ben am 5.08 p.m.

The session ended at 5.08 p.m.