Cymraeg

Cynulliad Cenedlaethol CymruNational Assembly for Wales · Cyfarfod llawnPlenary sitting

Dydd Mercher 21 Gorffennaf 1999

Wednesday 21 July 1999

DechreuoddMet 14:00 · Daeth i benRose 17:31

Gweld y Cofnod (PDF)View the Record (PDF)

Heb ei wirio â llaw etoNot yet checked by hand

CynnwysContents

  1. 2Heb deitlUntitled
  2. 2Cwestiynau i’r Ysgrifennydd Amaethyddiaeth a Datblygu GwledigQuestions to the Secretary for Agriculture and Rural Development
    1. 2Bwydydd Organig CymruWelsh Organic Food
    2. 4Cig sy’n cael ei Fewnforio (Ansawdd)Imported Meat (Quality)
    3. 6Marchnadoedd FfermwyrFarmers Markets
    4. 8Mwynhau Cefn GwladEnjoyment of the Countryside
    5. 10Lwfans Iawndal Da Byw Tir UchelHill Livestock Compensatory Allowance
  3. 12Cwestiynau i’r Ysgrifennydd Addysg Cyn-16Questions to the Secretary for Under-16 Education
    1. 12Cysylltu Tâl Athrawon â Pherfformiad DisgyblionLinking Teachers’ Pay to Pupil Performance
    2. 14Ad-drefnu Ysgolion mewn Ardaloedd GwledigSchools Rationalisation in Rural Areas
    3. 17Gwaith Papur a Chadw Cofnodion (Athrawon)Paperwork and Record Keeping (Teachers)
    4. 19Adroddiadau ar Ysgolion (Iaith)Reports on Schools (Language)
  4. 21Cwestiwn BrysUrgent Question
    1. 21Gweithfeydd Dur BrymboBrymbo Steelworks
  5. 23Datganiad ar Dy CrugywelStatement on Crickhowell House
  6. 27Datganiad ar Gynhyrchion AnifeiliaidStatement on Animal Products
  7. 30Gwelliannau i Reolau SefydlogAmendments to Standing Orders 1 bleidlais1 vote
  8. 43Rheoliadau AddysgEducation Regulations 2 o bleidleisiau2 votes
  9. 58Y Sector GwirfoddolThe Voluntary Sector 4 o bleidleisiau4 votes

PleidleisiauVotes

PleidlaisVoteO blaidForYmatalAbstainYn erbynAgainstCanlyniadResult
Gwelliannau i Reolau SefydlogAmendments to Standing Orders
CynnigMotion42114DerbyniwydAdopted
Rheoliadau AddysgEducation Regulations
PleidlaisVoteDrwy ddangos dwyloShow of handsDerbyniwydAdopted
PleidlaisVoteDrwy ddangos dwyloShow of handsDerbyniwydAdopted
Y Sector GwirfoddolThe Voluntary Sector
Gwelliant 1Amendment 1Drwy ddangos dwyloShow of handsDerbyniwydAdopted
PleidlaisVoteDrwy ddangos dwyloShow of handsDerbyniwydAdopted
Gwelliant 2Amendment 2Drwy ddangos dwyloShow of handsGwrthodwydRejected
CynnigMotionDrwy ddangos dwyloShow of handsDerbyniwydAdopted

TrafodionProceedings

Cyfarfu’r Cynulliad am 2 p.m. gyda’r Llywydd yn y Gadair.

The Assembly met at 2 p.m. with the Presiding Officer in the Chair.

Heb deitlUntitled

Dafydd Elis-Thomas Y Llywydd siaradwyd yn Gymraeg t. 2

Dafydd Elis-Thomas The Presiding Officer spoken in Welsh p. 2

Galwaf y Cynulliad Cenedlaethol i drefn.

I call the National Assembly to order.

Rod Richards spoken in English p. 2

Rod Richards siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 2

Point of order. What is the situation when the Secretary for Agriculture and Rural Development has failed to turn up to answer questions on agriculture when the industry is in turmoil?

Mater o drefn. Beth yw’r sefyllfa pan fo’r Ysgrifennydd Amaethyddiaeth a Datblygu Gwledig heb ddod yma i ateb cwestiynau ar amaethyddiaeth pan fo’r diwydiant mewn cythrwfl?

Dafydd Elis-Thomas The Presiding Officer spoken in English p. 2

Dafydd Elis-Thomas Y Llywydd siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 2

That is not a point of order.

Nid mater o drefn yw hwnnw.

Alun Michael The First Secretary spoken in English p. 2

Alun Michael Y Prif Ysgrifennydd siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 2

Point of order. Can we check the time on the clocks in the Chamber? According to my watch it is just approaching 2 p.m. now.

Mater o drefn. A gawn ni sicrhau bod clociau’r Siambr yn gywir? Yn ôl fy wats i, ar fin cyrraedd 2 p.m. y mae hi yn awr.

Rod Richards spoken in English p. 2

Rod Richards siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 2

It has gone 2 p.m.

Mae wedi troi 2 p.m.

Alun Michael The First Secretary spoken in English p. 2

Alun Michael Y Prif Ysgrifennydd siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 2

You do not know what time of day it is anyway.

Pwy a wyr faint o’r gloch yw hi arnoch chi beth bynnag.

Dafydd Wigley spoken in English p. 2

Dafydd Wigley siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 2

Just get on with it.

Ymlaen â ni.

Dafydd Elis-Thomas The Presiding Officer spoken in English p. 2

Dafydd Elis-Thomas Y Llywydd siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 2

Order. I know it is the end of term but we are in session.

Fe wn ei bod hi’n ddiwedd y tymor ond mae’r sesiwn wedi dechrau.

Cwestiynau i’r Ysgrifennydd Amaethyddiaeth a Datblygu Gwledig

Questions to the Secretary for Agriculture and Rural Development

Bwydydd Organig Cymru

Welsh Organic Food

C1 Carwyn Jones siaradwyd yn Gymraeg t. 2

Q1 Carwyn Jones spoken in Welsh p. 2

Beth sy’n cael ei wneud i hyrwyddo bwydydd organig Cymru? (OAQ552JS)

What is being done to promote Welsh organic food? (OAQ522JS)

Gofynnais y cwestiwn cyntaf y tro diwethaf yr atebodd Christine gwestiynau. Anghofiais ei llongyfarch ar ei phenodiad i’r Cabinet. Llongyfarchiadau Christine; yr wyf yn sicr y byddwch yn parhau i weithio yn synhwyrol a galluog fel yr ydych wedi dangos hyd yn hyn.

I asked the first question the last time Christine answered questions. I forgot to congratulate her on her appointment to the Cabinet. Congratulations Christine; I am sure you will continue to work ably and sensibly as you have done until now.

Christine Gwyther The Secretary for Agriculture and Rural Development spoken in English p. 2

Christine Gwyther Yr Ysgrifennydd Amaethyddiaeth a Datblygu Gwledig siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 2

Thank you for your congratulations, Carwyn.

Diolch ichi am fy llongyfarch, Carwyn.

On 8 March 1999, Alun Michael, as Secretary of State and Gareth Rowlands, chair of the Organic Working Group, launched an action plan for the organic food sector in Wales.

Ar 8 Mawrth 1999, lansiodd Alun Michael, fel Ysgrifennydd Gwladol a Gareth Rowlands, cadeirydd y Gweithgor Organig gynllun gweithredu ar gyfer sector bwyd organig Cymru.

I fully support this industry-led plan, which sets out an agenda for developing the organic sector in Wales. Its aim is to expand organic farming to 10 per cent of Welsh agricultural produce by 2005.

Cefnogaf yn llwyr y cynllun hwn sy’n cael ei lywio gan y diwydiant ac sy’n gosod agenda ar gyfer datblygu’r sector organig yng Nghymru. Ei nod yw ehangu ffermio organig i 10 y cant o gynnyrch amaethyddol Cymru erbyn 2005.

Carwyn Jones spoken in English p. 3

Carwyn Jones siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 3

What sectors will be encouraged to produce more organic produce?

Pa sectorau a anogir i gynhyrchu rhagor o gynnyrch organig?

Christine Gwyther spoken in English p. 3

Christine Gwyther siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 3

Various sectors across the agricultural board have shown an interest. The red meat sector, many sheep and beef producers and the dairy sector have shown particular interest. Some dairy farmers feel that this is a possible way forward after recent problems in their industry.

Mae sawl sector ledled y byd amaethyddol wedi dangos diddordeb. Mae’r sector cig coch, llawer o gynhyrchwyr defaid a chig eidion a’r sector llaeth wedi dangos diddordeb arbennig. Teimla rhai ffermwyr llaeth y gall hyn fod yn ffordd ymlaen ar ôl y problemau a gawsant yn eu diwydiant yn ddiweddar.

Rhodri Glyn Thomas siaradwyd yn Gymraeg t. 3

Rhodri Glyn Thomas spoken in Welsh p. 3

Ym mis Ebrill, cyflwynodd Nick Brown ail gynllun cynorthwyo trosglwyddo ar gyfer datblygu organig yn Lloegr. Cyn i’r Cynulliad gael ei sefydlu a chyn i chi gael eich penodi, gohiriwyd y cynllun yng Nghymru. Mae hyn wedi achosi trafferthion i lawer o bobl. Pam yr oedd y cynllun mor hwyr yn cael ei gyflwyno yng Nghymru a phryd y bydd yn cael ei gyflwyno?

In April, Nick Brown introduced a second transfer assistance scheme for organic development in England. Before the Assembly was established and before you were appointed, the scheme was deferred in Wales. This has caused problems for many people. Why is the scheme being introduced so late in Wales and when will it be introduced?

Christine Gwyther spoken in English p. 3

Christine Gwyther siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 3

It has come later to Wales than England, but that is not the fault of any Welsh Minister. The report and recommendations were held up in Europe. I am pleased that the STAR Committee reached an agreement at the end of June for the new organic rates to be implemented in Wales. These rates will come into force from 1 October 1999. Application packs will be available in our regional offices early in September. Anyone who is interested should go to the offices as soon as possible.

Daeth i Gymru’n hwyrach nag y daeth i Loegr, ond nid bai unrhyw Weinidog yng Nghymru yw hynny. Bu oedi gyda’r adroddiad a’r argymhellion yn Ewrop. Yr wyf yn falch fod Pwyllgor STAR wedi llwyddo i gytuno ddiwedd Mehefin er mwyn i’r cyfraddau organig newydd gael eu gweithredu yng Nghymru. Daw’r cyfraddau hyn i rym ar 1 Hydref 1999. Bydd pecynnau ymgeisio ar gael yn ein swyddfeydd rhanbarthol yn gynnar ym mis Medi. Dylai unrhyw un sydd â diddordeb fynd i’r swyddfeydd cyn gynted ag y bo modd.

Glyn Davies spoken in English p. 3

Glyn Davies siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 3

It is vital that farmers in Wales are not disadvantaged compared with farmers in other parts of Britain. I would like an assurance from Christine Gwyther that that will always be the case. The reputation of Welsh food depends very much on its green image. If any other part of the United Kingdom were to develop a more organic reputation than Wales, it would be extremely damaging.

Mae’n holl bwysig nad yw ffermwyr yng Nghymru dan anfantais o’u cymharu â ffermwyr mewn rhannau eraill o Brydain. Hoffwn gael sicrwydd gan Christine Gwyther mai felly y bydd hi bob amser. Mae enw da bwyd Cymru’n dibynnu i raddau helaeth ar ei ddelwedd werdd. Pe bai unrhyw ran arall o’r Deyrnas Unedig yn meithrin enw da am fod yn fwy organig na Chymru, byddai hynny’n niweidiol iawn.

Christine Gwyther spoken in English p. 4

Christine Gwyther siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 4

I made a useful start on this project when I announced that we would make up to £1 million available in this financial year for organic conversion, which is larger than the originally envisaged £288,000. I was delighted that we were able to more than triple the budget. The interest throughout the industry means that we will reach that level of application. I hope we exceed it and, if so, I and my colleagues will try to make more money available. It is an important, growing sector, which underpins the image of food in Wales.

Rhoddais gychwyn da i’r prosiect hwn drwy gyhoeddi y byddem yn darparu hyd at £1 miliwn yn y flwyddyn ariannol hon ar gyfer trosglwyddo i ffermio organig, sy’n fwy na’r £288,000 a ragwelwyd yn y lle cyntaf. Yr oeddwn wrth fy modd ein bod yn gallu treblu’r gyllideb a mwy. Mae’r diddordeb ledled y diwydiant yn golygu y byddwn yn cyrraedd y lefel ymgeisio honno. Gobeithiaf y byddwn yn mynd y tu hwnt iddo, ac os felly, byddaf i a fy nghydweithwyr yn ceisio sicrhau bod rhagor o arian ar gael. Mae’n sector pwysig sy’n tyfu ac mae’n sylfaen i ddelwedd bwyd yng Nghymru.

Kirsty Williams spoken in English p. 4

Kirsty Williams siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 4

Given the disquiet within rural communities about the delay in implementing the scheme, a delay which is not the fault of anybody here, how many farmers will be able to access this money? For those who are unsuccessful in this and other schemes, and those who have had a dispute with the Ministry, will you consider a farming ombudsman as an appeal mechanism for them?

Ag ystyried yr anniddigrwydd yng nghymunedau cefn gwlad ynghylch yr oedi wrth weithredu’r cynllun hwn, oedi nad yw’n fai ar neb yma, faint o ffermwyr fydd yn gallu cael gafael ar yr arian hwn? I’r rhai sy’n aflwyddiannus gyda’r cynllun hwn a chynlluniau eraill, a’r rhai sydd wedi bod mewn anghydfod gyda’r Weinyddiaeth, a fyddwch chi’n ystyried ombwdsman ffermio fel mecanwaith apelio iddynt?

Christine Gwyther spoken in English p. 4

Christine Gwyther siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 4

There is currently an appeal procedure. It is only incumbent upon me to consider that request. We need organic aid across as much of the sector as possible. That means considering a mechanism whereby we can help smaller farmers to adapt before the larger farmers, who could find their own money to do so. However, it is early days to speculate how that will be done and we will address your concern.

Mae trefn apelio eisoes ar gael. Yr unig beth y mae’n rhaid i mi ei wneud yw ystyried y cais hwnnw. Mae angen inni gael cymorth organig ar gyfer cymaint o’r sector ag y bo modd. Mae hynny’n ystyried mecanwaith i gynorthwyo ffermwyr llai i addasu cyn y ffermwyr mwy, a allai ganfod eu harian eu hunain i wneud hyn. Fodd bynnag, mae’n fuan eto i ddyfalu sut y gwneir hynny a byddwn yn mynd i’r afael â’ch pwynt.

Cig sy’n cael ei Fewnforio (Ansawdd)

Imported Meat (Quality)

Q2 David Davies spoken in English p. 4

C2 David Davies siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 4

What assessments has Christine Gwyther made of the quality of meat being imported into Britain from other EU countries? (OAQ504VB)

Pa asesiadau a wnaed gan Christine Gwyther o ansawdd y cig sy’n cael ei fewnforio i Brydain o wledydd eraill yr UE? (OAQ504VB)

Christine Gwyther spoken in English p. 5

Christine Gwyther siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 5

That question has been asked before. It is important to consider this. It is a legal requirement for all consignments of fresh meat imported into the UK to be produced in accordance with harmonised European Community rules, whether from other member states or third countries.

Gofynnwyd y cwestiwn hwn o’r blaen. Mae’n bwysig ystyried hyn. Yn ôl y gyfraith, rhaid cynhyrchu pob llwyth o gig ffres a fewnforir i’r DU yn unol â rheolau cytun Cymuned Ewrop, boed y cig hwnnw’n dod o aelod-wladwriaeth arall neu’r drydedd haen o wledydd.

David Davies spoken in English p. 5

David Davies siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 5

Is Christine Gwyther aware that in Ireland, carcasses of stray dogs are fed to poultry and pigs, some of whose meat is imported into this country? Does she accept that this poses a health risk to consumers in this country? Will she advise consumers against buying Irish poultry and pig meat? Will she discuss with the Minister for Agriculture, Fisheries and Food the possibility of a ban on Irish poultry and pig meat coming into this country?

A yw Christine Gwyther yn ymwybodol bod celanedd cwn coll yn cael eu bwydo i ddofednod a moch yn Iwerddon, a bod peth o’r cig hwnnw’n cael ei allforio i’r wlad hon? A yw’n derbyn bod hyn yn peryglu iechyd defnyddwyr yn y wlad hon? A wnaiff hi gynghori defnyddwyr i beidio â phrynu dofednod a chig moch o Iwerddon? A wnaiff hi drafod gyda’r Gweinidog Amaeth, Pysgodfeydd a Bwyd y posibilrwydd o wahardd dofednod a chig moch o Iwerddon rhag dod i’r wlad hon?

Christine Gwyther spoken in English p. 5

Christine Gwyther siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 5

We must remember that all meat coming into this country must comply with European Union regulations. If meat that does not comply comes in from any part of the EU, it is our responsibility as individuals to complain about such instances, so that we can do something about it. I would like to receive details of such an instance in writing, as that would help us.

Rhaid inni gofio bod yr holl gig sy’n dod i mewn i’r wlad hon yn gorfod cydymffurfio â rheoliadau Undeb Ewrop. Os daw unrhyw gig nad yw’n cydymffurfio i mewn o unrhyw ran o UE, ein cyfrifoldeb ni fel unigolion yw cwyno am enghreifftiau o’r fath, fel y gallwn wneud rhywbeth yn ei gylch. Hoffwn dderbyn manylion am enghraifft o’r fath ar bapur, gan y byddai hynny’n gymorth inni.

Cynog Dafis siaradwyd yn Gymraeg t. 5

Cynog Dafis spoken in Welsh p. 5

Beth yw sefyllfa ddiweddaraf y cynllun labelu? Yr ydym wedi cael addewidion y bydd cynllun yn bod ac y bydd yn glir a dibynadwy, er mwyn i gwsmeriaid allu dewis pa un a ydynt am fwyta cig Prydeinig neu Gymreig neu gig sy’n dod o wledydd eraill. Deallaf ei bod o hyd yn bosibl i gig sydd wedi’i brosesu ym Mhrydain gael ei labelu fel cig Prydeinig er nad yw’n dod o Brydain yn wreiddiol. Mae llawer o anfodlonrwydd ynghylch hyn. A all Christine Gwyther ddweud wrthym sut y mae’r Llywodraeth yn golygu gweithredu mewn perthynas â’r labelu a sut bydd yn ymateb i ofynion cwsmeriaid am wybodaeth glir ynglyn â tharddiad y cig y maent yn ei brynu?

What is the latest position on the labelling scheme? We have had promises that this scheme will exist and that it will be clear and dependable, so that customers can choose whether they want to eat British or Welsh meat or meat that comes from other countries. I understand that it is still possible for meat processed in Britain to be labelled as British meat even though it does not come from Britain originally. There is much dissatisfaction about this. Can Christine Gwyther tell us how the Government intends to proceed on labelling and how it will respond to the requirements of customers for clear information on the provenance of the meat they purchase?

Christine Gwyther spoken in English p. 6

Christine Gwyther siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 6

This is another hot debate that the UK Government, in the form of the Ministry of Agriculture, Fisheries and Food, and the Assembly will have with Europe. At the moment, it is not incumbent upon any country to state the origin of meat. It can be processed and then sold on. It is an ongoing debate. It is not a perfect system and I will update you on what happens.

Dyna destun dadl losg arall a gaiff Llywodraeth y DU, ar ffurf y Gweinidog Amaeth, Pysgodfeydd a Bwyd, a’r Cynulliad, gydag Ewrop. Ar hyn o bryd, nid oes raid i’r un wlad ddatgan tarddiad cig. Gellir ei brosesu a’i werthu ymlaen. Mae hon yn ddadl sy’n parhau. Nid yw’n drefn berffaith ac fe roddaf wybod i chi am unrhyw ddatblygiadau.

Rod Richards spoken in English p. 6

Rod Richards siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 6

In her reply to David Davies, the Secretary for Agriculture and Rural Development asked for instances of dog carcasses being fed to poultry and pigs. Does not she read Farmers Weekly? Has not she read the article in it that says ‘Dog Flesh Fed to Irish Livestock’? What will she do about it? Will she consult her official, the Chief Medical Officer? Will she make representations to the Irish Government? Will she tell us whether feeding dog flesh to poultry and pigs complies with European regulations? Does she know anything about agriculture?

Yn ei hateb i David Davies, gofynnodd yr Ysgrifennydd Amaeth a Datblygu Gwledig am enghreifftiau o gelanedd cwn yn cael eu bwydo i ddofednod a moch. Onid yw hi’n darllen y Farmers Weekly? Onid yw hi wedi darllen yr erthygl ynddo sy’n dweud ‘Dog Flesh Fed to Irish Livestock’? Beth mae’n bwriadu ei wneud ynghylch hyn? A wnaiff hi ymgynghori â’i swyddog, y Prif Swyddog Meddygol? A wnaiff hi bwyso ar Lywodraeth Iwerddon? A wnaiff hi ddweud wrthym a yw bwydo cnawd cwn i ddofednod a moch yn enghraifft o gydymffurfio â rheoliadau Ewrop? A yw hi’n gwybod unrhyw beth am amaethyddiaeth?

Christine Gwyther spoken in English p. 6

Christine Gwyther siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 6

Yes, I do know something about agriculture and I know something about the media, as you do. I also know that the correct authorities need proper written evidence. Holding up Farmers Weekly is not good enough. If you have specific evidence, I would be grateful for it.

Ydwyf, yr wyf i’n gwybod rhywbeth am amaethyddiaeth ac yr wyf i’n gwybod rhywbeth y cyfryngau, fel chithau. Gwn hefyd fod angen tystiolaeth ysgrifenedig gywir ar yr awdurdodau priodol. Nid yw chwifio’r Farmers Weekly yn ddigon da. Os oes gennych dystiolaeth benodol, byddwn yn ddiolchgar o’i chael.

Marchnadoedd Ffermwyr

Farmers Markets

Q3 Sue Essex spoken in English p. 6

C3 Sue Essex siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 6

What plans does Christine Gwyther have to develop, in co-operation with the Assembly Secretary for Economic Development, a strategy for the setting up of a network of farmers markets across Wales as a way of stimulating the rural economy and urban market centres? (OAQ506VB)

Pa gynlluniau sydd gan Christine Gwyther i ddatblygu, mewn cydweithrediad â’r Ysgrifennydd Cynulliad dros Ddatblygu Economaidd, strategaeth i sefydlu rhwydwaith o farchnadoedd ffermwyr ledled Cymru fel ffordd o ysgogi’r economi wledig a chanolfannau marchnad trefol? (OAQ506VB)

Christine Gwyther spoken in English p. 6

Christine Gwyther siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 6

That issue is sweeping the country and Wales has not been behind in boarding that train. Farmers markets can make a useful contribution to farmers’ income and my officials and I are ready to assist local authorities and other partners in developing farmers markets where possible and where they will make a difference. As with other markets, they are subject to licensing by local authorities, which have a statutory responsibility for food safety and other issues.

Mae’r pwnc hwnnw’n ‘sgubo drwy’r wlad ac nid yw Cymru wedi bod ar ei hôl hi’n neidio ar y trên. Gall marchnadoedd ffermwyr wneud cyfraniad defnyddiol i incwm ffermwyr ac mae fy swyddogion a finnau’n barod i gynorthwyo awdurdodau lleol a phartneriaid eraill i ddatblygu marchnadoedd ffermwyr lle bo modd a lle byddant yn gwneud gwahaniaeth. Fel sy’n wir am farchnadoedd eraill, rhaid iddynt gael trwydded gan awdurdodau lleol, sy’n gyfrifol yn ôl y gyfraith am ddiogelwch bwyd a materion eraill.

Sue Essex spoken in English p. 7

Sue Essex siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 7

In that case, do you think that detailed discussions with the Welsh Development Agency and the Welsh Local Government Association would be worthwhile, so that the scheme could be implemented? They bridge the rural and urban divide in other countries. We have heard a lot about that in the Assembly. Implementing the schemes would be to everybody’s benefit.

Os felly, ydych chi’n meddwl y byddai hi’n werth cynnal trafodaethau manwl gydag Awdurdod Datblygu Cymru a Chymdeithas Llywodraeth Leol Cymru, er mwyn rhoi’r cynllun ar waith? Maent yn pontio’r bwlch rhwng cefn gwlad a’r trefi mewn gwledydd eraill. Clywsom lawer am hynny yn y Cynulliad. Byddai gweithredu’r cynlluniau o fudd i bawb.

Christine Gwyther spoken in English p. 7

Christine Gwyther siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 7

As I said, local authorities have responsibilities other than licensing. As proponents of economic development, they have a duty to encourage those markets and help them develop. That is happening in some counties in Wales. On National Assembly funding, we cannot fund local authorities to establish farmers markets. However, a revenue grant is available for farmers co-operatives or groups who want to come together to set up farmers markets or other positive movements.

Fel y dywedais, mae gan awdurdodau lleol gyfrifoldebau ar wahân i drwyddedu. Fel ysgogwyr datblygu economaidd, mae ganddynt ddyletswydd i hybu’r marchnadoedd hynny a’u helpu i ddatblygu. Mae hynny yn digwydd mewn rhai siroedd yng Nghymru. Gyda’r arian sydd gan y Cynulliad Cenedlaethol, ni allwn noddi awdurdodau lleol i sefydlu marchnadoedd ffermwyr. Fodd bynnag, mae grant refeniw ar gael i ffermwyr, cwmnïau cydweithredol neu grwpiau sy’n dymuno dod at ei gilydd i sefydlu marchnadoedd ffermwyr neu fudiadau adeiladol eraill.

Ieuan Wyn Jones siaradwyd yn Gymraeg t. 7

Ieuan Wyn Jones spoken in Welsh p. 7

Er bod ffermwyr yn gallu cynhyrchu cig a llysiau o’r ansawdd gorau yn Ewrop a chynnyrch mwyaf diogel Ewrop, a yw Christine yn cytuno mai ychydig iawn o ddylanwad sydd ganddynt ar bris eu cynnyrch yn y farchnad? A yw hi’n croesawu symudiadau yn y diwydiant amaeth yn ystod y misoedd diwethaf i gael mwy o ddylanwad ar y farchnad drwy sefydlu mentrau cydweithredol i farchnata’n well? A yw hi’n addo y bydd y Cynulliad, drwy ei adnoddau, yn gallu cynorthwyo yn y broses bwysig honno?

Although farmers can produce meat and vegetables of the highest standard the safest produce in Europe, does Christine agree that they have very little influence on the price of their produce at market? Does she welcome movements in the agriculture industry during recent months to have more influence on the market by establishing co-operative initiatives for better marketing? Does she promise that the Assembly, through its resources, will be able to assist in that important process?

Christine Gwyther spoken in English p. 7

Christine Gwyther siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 7

Co-operatives are an important way forward. You all know that the First Secretary launched the all-Wales livestock co-operative the Monday before last. We must ensure more vertical integration if we are to make money for our primary producers. They are currently losing control of their product as soon as it leaves the farm gate. We must assist farmers in making the most of their products. That was a prime reason for establishing the agri-food partnership last November. It is already doing much good work and is considering vertical integration seriously to ensure that our producers get what they deserve.

Mae cwmnïau cydweithredol yn ffordd bwysig ymlaen. Gwyddoch i gyd i’r Prif Ysgrifennydd lansio cwmni cydweithredol da byw Cymru gyfan ddydd Llun cyn diwethaf. Rhaid inni sicrhau rhagor o integreiddio o’r pen i’r gwaelod os ydym am greu arian i’n cynhyrchwyr sylfaenol. Ar hyn o bryd, maent yn colli rheolaeth dros eu cynnyrch ar unwaith wrth iddo fynd allan drwy giât y fferm. Rhaid inni gynorthwyo ffermwyr i fanteisio i’r eithaf ar eu cynnyrch. Dyma un o’r prif resymau dros sefydlu’r bartneriaeth amaeth-bwyd fis Tachwedd diwethaf. Mae eisoes yn gwneud llawer o waith da ac mae’n ystyried integreiddio o’r pen i’r gwaelod o ddifrif er mwyn sicrhau bod ein cynhyrchwyr yn cael eu haeddiant.

Peter Black spoken in English p. 8

Peter Black siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 8

Rather than looking at this initiative in isolation, will you consider linking the farmers market network with a campaign to promote the quality of Welsh food and the development of rural communities? That would enable us to have an overall view and try to do many things at once.

Yn hytrach nag edrych ar y cynllun hwn ar ei ben ei hun, a wnewch chi ystyried cysylltu rhwydwaith marchnadoedd y ffermwyr gydag ymgyrch i hyrwyddo ansawdd bwyd Cymru a datblygu cymunedau cefn gwlad? Byddai hynny’n gyfle inni weld y darlun cyfan a gwneud sawl peth ar yr un pryd.

Christine Gwyther spoken in English p. 8

Christine Gwyther siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 8

I believe that that will become part of the general rural development thrust. Although the first few meetings of the Agriculture and Rural Development Committee have majored on agriculture because of the incredible pressures on that industry, we are aware that we also have a duty to rural development. The single programming document is being drawn up at the moment and good ideas are welcome. For instance, the Liberal Democrats have ideas on the market towns initiative and so on. Therefore, your suggestion is a possible way forward. We welcome contributions from all parties.

Credaf y bydd hynny’n dod yn rhan o’r ymgyrch gyffredinol ym maes datblygu cefn gwlad. Er bod ychydig gyfarfodydd cyntaf y Pwyllgor Amaethyddiaeth a Datblygu Gwledig wedi canolbwyntio ar amaethyddiaeth oherwydd y pwysau aruthrol sydd ar y diwydiant, yr ydym yn ymwybodol fod gennym ddyletswydd hefyd i ddatblygu cefn gwlad. Mae’r ddogfen raglennu sengl wrthi’n cael ei llunio ar hyn o bryd, ac mae croeso i bob syniad da. Er enghraifft, mae gan y Democratiaid Rhyddfrydol syniadau ynghylch cynllun y trefi marchnad ac yn y blaen. Felly, efallai fod eich awgrym yn dangos y ffordd ymlaen. Croesawn gyfraniadau gan bob plaid.

Mwynhau Cefn Gwlad

Enjoyment of the Countryside

Q4 John Griffiths spoken in English p. 8

C4 John Griffiths siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 8

What policies should the Assembly follow to encourage the enjoyment of the countryside by the general population? (OAQ539VB)

Pa bolisïau y dylai’r Cynulliad eu dilyn i annog y boblogaeth yn gyffredinol i fwynhau cefn gwlad? (OAQ539VB)?

Christine Gwyther spoken in English p. 9

Christine Gwyther siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 9

The Government has promised to legislate at the earliest opportunity to secure a right of access to the open countryside. From our discussions, I know that the Assembly Cabinet supports that fully. The Assembly will be consulted on the details of the Government’s legislative proposal and we are committed to ensuring that the network of public rights of way is properly maintained and responsive to current needs.

Mae’r Llywodraeth wedi addo deddfu cyn gynted ag y bydd cyfle i sicrhau hawl mynediad i gefn gwlad agored. O’n trafodaethau, gwn fod Cabinet y Cynulliad yn cefnogi hynny’n llwyr. Ymgynghorir â’r Cynulliad ar fanylion cynnig deddfwriaethol y Llywodraeth ac yr ydym wedi ymrwymo i sicrhau bod y rhwydwaith o lwybrau lle ceir hawl tramwyo’n cael ei gynnal a’i gadw’n iawn ac yn ymateb i anghenion ar y pryd.

John Griffiths spoken in English p. 9

John Griffiths siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 9

Do you agree that it is a general population issue and that there is often an unfortunate polarisation of urban versus rural, as Sue Essex mentioned earlier? Wherever we live, we all have a keen interest in the countryside, whether we walk, cycle or engage in any other activities in the countryside.

A ydych chi’n cytuno bod hyn yn fater i’r boblogaeth yn gyffredinol a bod polareiddio anffodus yn aml yn digwydd rhwng pobl y dref a phobl y wlad, fel y soniodd Sue Essex yn gynharach? Lle bynnag yr ydym yn byw, mae gennym oll ddiddordeb brwd yng nghefn gwlad, boed hynny fel rhai sy’n cerdded, yn mynd ar gefn beic neu’n dilyn gweithgareddau eraill yn y wlad?

Christine Gwyther spoken in English p. 9

Christine Gwyther siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 9

Yes, we do. To be fair, many people living in the open countryside welcome the interest and are pleased to see people from urban developments enjoying something that belongs to us all by right.

Oes, mae gennym ni. A bod yn deg, mae llawer o bobl sy’n byw yng nghefn gwlad agored yn croesawu’r diddordeb ac yn falch o weld pobl o ardaloedd trefol yn mwynhau rhywbeth sy’n eiddo inni i gyd fel hawl.

Alun Pugh spoken in English p. 9

Alun Pugh siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 9

Do you accept that enjoyment of the countryside is not enhanced by the red jacket brigade out for a spot of recreational killing?

A ydych chi’n derbyn nad yw’r frigâd yn eu siacedi coch sydd allan i ladd yn eu horiau hamdden yn cyfrannu at fwynhad pobl o gefn gwlad?

Christine Gwyther spoken in English p. 9

Christine Gwyther siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 9

I promise that that question was not planted. That has been the subject of considerable debate over the last couple of days. At the Royal Welsh Show at Builth Wells, I was afraid that it would undermine what the Assembly is talking about: the future of farming. However, it has not for two reasons. First, most of the agricultural people at the show were interested in talking about the future of farming. Secondly, the pro-hunt protesters were courteous and we had a good and frank discussion with them. It is important that we recognise that because they have a point of view, I have a point of view and we have to talk to reach a consensus

Gallaf addo ichi nad oedd y cwestiwn hwnnw wedi’i gynllunio. Mae’r pwnc hwn wedi bod yn destun trafod mawr yn ystod y diwrnodau diwethaf. Yn Sioe Frenhinol Cymru yn Llanfairymuallt, yr oedd arnaf ofn y byddai hyn yn tanseilio’r hyn y mae’r Cynulliad yn siarad amdano: dyfodol ffermio. Fodd bynnag, nid yw wedi gwneud hynny am ddau reswm. Yn gyntaf, yr oedd y rhan fwyaf o’r bobl amaethyddol yn y sioe am siarad am ddyfodol ffermio. Yn ail, yr oedd y protestwyr o blaid hela yn gwrtais a chawsom drafodaeth dda a di-flewyn-ar-dafod gyda hwy. Mae’n bwysig ein bod yn cydnabod hynny am fod ganddynt eu barn, mae gennyf innau fy marn a rhaid inni siarad er mwyn cyrraedd consensws.

Lwfans Iawndal Da Byw Tir Uchel

Hill Livestock Compensatory Allowance

Q5 Mick Bates spoken in English p. 10

C5 Mick Bates siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 10

What action is being taken to continue last year’s increase in HLCA payments? (OAQ521VB)

Pa gamau sy’n cael eu cymryd i barhau â’r cynnydd a gafwyd y llynedd yn y taliadau Lwfans Iawndal Da Byw Tir Uchel? (OAQ521VB)

Christine Gwyther spoken in English p. 10

Christine Gwyther siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 10

The extra £14.7 million provided by the 1999 HLCA allowance payments in Wales was part of a special aid package for livestock farmers. As part of agenda 2000 reforms, the HLCA scheme is changing from a headage-based to an area-based system. No decision has been taken yet on how the changes will be implemented. We are awaiting the implementing regulations and the Government will decide on the budget for the new scheme once details are finalised.

Roedd y £14.7 miliwn ychwanegol a ddarperid gan daliadau lwfans HLCA 1999 yng Nghymru’n rhan o becyn cymorth arbennig i ffermwyr da byw. Fel rhan o ddiwygiadau agenda 2000, mae cynllun HLCA’n newid o drefn sydd wedi’i seilio ar niferoedd fesul pen i drefn sydd wedi’i seilio ar ardaloedd. Ni chafwyd penderfyniad eto ynghylch sut y gweithredir y newidiadau. Yr ydym yn disgwyl y rheoliadau gweithredu a bydd y Llywodraeth yn penderfynu ar y gyllideb ar gyfer y cynllun newydd unwaith y bydd y manylion terfynol ar gael.

Mick Bates spoken in English p. 10

Mick Bates siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 10

The previous question was about access to the countryside. The loss of this £14.7 million is another body blow to the rural community. What is the best way to implement the new regime? Is it going to be based on historic payments? Will it be ring-fenced or paid on an area basis and at a flat rate throughout Wales?

Yr oedd y cwestiwn blaenorol yn sôn am fynediad i gefn gwlad. Mae colli’r £14.7 miliwn hwn yn ergyd ysgytwol arall i gymunedau gwledig. Beth yw’r ffordd orau o weithredu’r drefn newydd? A gaiff ei seilio ar daliadau hanesyddol? A fydd yn cael ei neilltuo’n benodol neu’n cael ei dalu ar sail ardal ac ar gyfradd gydradd ledled Cymru?

Christine Gwyther spoken in English p. 10

Christine Gwyther siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 10

The first thing to remember is that the £14.7 million is not being lost. It was a one-off payment. It was only because the HLCA scheme was ending that Nick Brown was able to get the money into Wales. We should pay him tribute because of that. He has made it clear that it cannot happen again this year. From this year onwards we are entering a new system.

Y peth cyntaf i’w gofio yw nad yw’r £14.7 miliwn yn cael ei golli. Taliad unswm oedd hwn. Dim ond am fod y cynllun Lwfansau’n dod i ben y llwyddodd Nick Brown gael yr arian i Gymru. Dylem dalu teyrnged iddo am hynny. Fe’i gwnaeth hi’n glir na all hynny ddigwydd eto eleni. O eleni ymlaen, byddwn yn dechrau ar y system newydd.

On payments, we are in discussions over issues such as modulation and historic payments. The money that Wales received last year—apart from the £14.7 million bunk-up—has been ring-fenced. I was given that assurance yesterday from Nick Brown.

Gyda golwg ar daliadau, yr ydym wrthi’n trafod materion megis modiwleiddio a thaliadau hanesyddol. Mae’r arian a dderbyniodd Cymru y llynedd —ac eithrio’r ychwanegiad o £14.7 miliwn—wedi cael ei bennu’n neilltuol. Cefais y sicrwydd hwnnw ddoe gan Nick Brown.

Dafydd Wigley siaradwyd yn Gymraeg t. 11

Dafydd Wigley spoken in Welsh p. 11

A wnaiff Christine gadarnhau y caiff buddiannau ffermwyr mynydd Cymru eu gwarchod yn yr adolygiad o daliadau HLCA? A gaf i sicrwydd pendant ganddi y bydd ffermydd teuluol o faint canolig yng Nghymru yn cael eu gwarchod mewn unrhyw becyn diwygio taliadau, yn arbennig os oes symudiad o daliadau yn ôl y pen i daliadau ar sail arwynebedd tir?

Will Christine confirm that the welfare of Wales’ mountain farmers will be protected in the review of HLCA payments? Can I have a definite assurance that medium-sized family farms in Wales will be protected in any package of payment reforms, especially if there is a move from headage payments to hectarage payments?

Christine Gwyther spoken in English p. 11

Christine Gwyther siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 11

That is a good point, Dafydd. We must ensure that when we reach our decisions, we do not end up with ranching in Wales. Nobody wants to see that as it would change the whole appearance of the countryside. Environmental groups do not support that because it would lead to the destruction of certain habitats. However, that is not our prime concern. There are social issues. We do not want Wales’ hills to be dead.

Pwynt da, Dafydd. Rhaid inni sicrhau pan fyddwn yn gwneud penderfyniadau, nad ydym yn arwain at greu ransiau yng Nghymru. Nid oes neb am weld hynny gan y byddai’n newid holl olwg cefn gwlad. Nid yw grwpiau amgylcheddol yn cefnogi hynny oherwydd y byddai’n arwain at ddifetha cynefinoedd arbennig. Fodd bynnag, nid dyna brif destun ein pryder. Mae a wnelo hyn â’n cymdeithasau. Nid ydym am weld bryniau Cymru’n farw.

Glyn Davies spoken in English p. 11

Glyn Davies siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 11

Bearing in mind the substantial decrease in HLCA payments this year compared with last year, is the Secretary for Agriculture and Rural Development happy that a significant part of the meagre budget is going to be used to implement right to roam legislation?

A chadw mewn cof fod gostyngiad sylweddol wedi bod yn y taliadau HLCA eleni o’u cymharu â’r llynedd, a yw’r Ysgrifennydd Amaethyddiaeth a Datblygu Gwledig yn hapus bod rhan sylweddol o’r gyllideb brin am gael ei defnyddio i weithredu’r ddeddfwriaeth hawl i grwydro.

Christine Gwyther spoken in English p. 11

Christine Gwyther siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 11

This is legislation that we will be required to carry out.

Mae’n ddeddfwriaeth y bydd gofyn inni ei gweithredu.

Glyn Davies spoken in English p. 11

Glyn Davies siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 11

Are you happy with it?

Ydych chi’n fodlon ar hynny?

Christine Gwyther spoken in English p. 11

Christine Gwyther siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 11

I am never happy about any money being taken away from my pot. However, sometimes there are things that you have to live with.

Nid wyf byth yn hapus bod arian yn cael ei dynnu o fy mhwrs. Fodd bynnag, weithiau, mae ‘na bethau y mae’n rhaid ichi eu derbyn.

Alison Halford spoken in English p. 11

Alison Halford siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 11

Point of order. I hope that it is a point of order.

Mater o drefn. Yr wyf yn gobeithio mai mater o drefn yw hyn.

Dafydd Elis-Thomas The Presiding Officer spoken in English p. 11

Dafydd Elis-Thomas Y Llywydd siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 11

So do I.

A finnau.

Alison Halford spoken in English p. 11

Alison Halford siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 11

I am concerned about how some Members address our Secretary for Agriculture and Rural Development. It borders on bullying and harassment. Although she is capable of looking after herself, it demeans the way that we conduct ourselves in the Chamber. Will you consider ruling upon the manner that some Members address their questions to her? Most Members address her in a positive and sensible manner. We are entitled to test her policies and her opinions but the way in which we do it is important. I am grateful for your indulgence.

Yr wyf yn bryderus ynghylch sut mae rhai Aelodau’n cyfarch ein Hysgrifennydd Amaethyddiaeth a Datblygu Gwledig. Mae eu hymddygiad yn ymylu ar fwlio a harasio. Er ei bod hi’n ddigon ‘tebol i’w gwarchod ei hun, mae’n diraddio’r ffordd yr ydym yn ymddwyn yn y Siambr hon. A wnewch chi ystyried gwneud datganiad ynghylch y ffordd y mae rhai Aelodau yn cyflwyno’u cwestiynau iddi? Mae’r rhan fwyaf o’r Aelodau’n ei chyfarch mewn ffordd bositif a synhwyrlon. Mae gennym hawl i roi prawf ar ei pholisïau a’i safbwyntiau ond mae’r dull a ddefnyddiwn i wneud hynny’n bwysig. Yr wyf yn ddiolchgar am eich amynedd.

Dafydd Elis-Thomas The Presiding Officer spoken in English p. 12

Dafydd Elis-Thomas Y Llywydd siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 12

That is indeed a point of order. I am grateful for the way you have raised it. I advise all Members—some in particular—to spend our brief summer holiday addressing themselves to the protocol on conduct in the Chamber. I have taken the Chair in what the media has described as an informal manner. However, this is not a sign that we intend to breach Standing Orders on protocols of behaviour. It has come to my attention that on a number of occasions, several Members tend to behave outwith our normal courtesies as set out in Standing Orders. I shall not single out any individuals because there are such Members in all parties. I will say no more on that issue today but I am grateful to Alison Halford for giving me the opportunity when we return, to flag up this issue again.

Yr oedd hwnnw’n sicr yn fater o drefn. Yr wyf yn ddiolchgar ichi am y ffordd yr ydych wedi codi’r pwynt. Awgrymaf y dylai pob Aelod—rhai yn enwedig—dreulio’n gwyliau haf byr yn rhoi sylw i’r protocol ar ymddygiad yn y Siambr. Yn ôl y cyfryngau, yr wyf yn Cadeirio mewn ffordd anffurfiol. Fodd bynnag, nid yw hyn yn arwydd ein bod yn bwriadu torri Rheolau sefydlog ar brotocolau ymddygiad. Daeth i fy sylw sawl tro bod nifer o Aelodau’n tueddu i beidio â dangos y cwrteisi sy’n arferol ac a ddisgrifir yn y Rheolau Sefydlog. Nid wyf am gyfeirio’n benodol at unigolion oherwydd bod Aelodau o’r fath ym mhob plaid. Ni ddywedaf ragor am hynny heddiw ond yr wyf yn ddiolchgar i Alison Halford am roi’r cyfle imi, pan ddychwelwn, i godi hyn eto.

Cwestiynau i’r Ysgrifennydd Addysg Cyn-16

Questions to the Secretary for Under-16 Education

Cysylltu Tâl Athrawon â Pherfformiad Disgyblion

Linking Teachers’ Pay to Pupil Performance

C1 Gareth Jones siaradwyd yn Gymraeg t. 12

Q1 Gareth Jones spoken in Welsh p. 12

Pa gynlluniau sydd gan Rosemary Butler i gyflwyno strategaeth amgen i Gymru mewn perthynas â’r cynigion i gysylltu tâl athrawon â pherfformiad disgyblion? (OAQ511VB)

What plans does Rosemary Butler have to present an alternative strategy for Wales in relation to proposals to link teachers’ pay to pupil performance? (OAQ511VB)

Ni feiddiaf fwlio Rosmary. Dyna pam yr ydym yn ddigon pell oddi wrth ein gilydd.

I will not dare bully Rosemary. That is why we sit far enough from each other.

Rosemary Butler The Secretary for Under-16 Education spoken in English p. 12

Rosemary Butler Yr Ysgrifennydd dros Addysg Cyn-16 siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 12

I am delighted that Gareth Jones is one of Wales’ true gentlemen. I hope that I can say the same by the end of the session, Gareth.

Yr wyf yn hynod o falch fod Gareth Jones yn un o wir foneddigion Cymru. Gobeithiaf y gallaf ddweud yr un peth erbyn diwedd y sesiwn, Gareth.

On 8 July, I published a progress report on the new pay in performance management systems for teachers. I outlined that we intend to move ahead with plans to reward our best teachers and gave a timetable for taking the proposals forward. A bilingual leaflet setting out the proposals in more detail was issued to all schools in Wales last week and the text is available on the Assembly’s website. The proposals will allow us to introduce a system in which excellence in the classroom can be rewarded in a way appropriate for Wales.

Ar 8 Gorffennaf, cyhoeddais adroddiad cynnydd ar y drefn newydd gyda golwg ar gyflogau a rheoli perfformiad athrawon. Soniais y bwriadwn fwrw ymlaen gyda’r cynlluniau i wobrwyo’n hathrawon gorau a rhoddais amserlen ar gyfer symud ymlaen gyda’r cynigion. Anfonwyd taflen ddwyieithog yn nodi’r cynigion yn fanylach at bob ysgol yng Nghymru’r wythnos ddiwethaf ac mae’r testun ar gael ar safle’r Cynulliad ar y we. Bydd y cynigion hyn yn caniatáu inni gyflwyno trefn lle gellir gwobrwyo rhagoriaeth yn yr ystafell ddosbarth mewn ffordd sy’n briodol i Gymru.

Gareth Jones siaradwyd yn Gymraeg t. 13

Gareth Jones spoken in Welsh p. 13

Mae yna un pwynt nad ydych wedi’i gyffwrdd o ddifrif, ac y mae’n fy mhoeni i a’r proffesiwn. Pan gyhoeddodd Peter Hain y Papur Gwyrdd, dywedodd heb amheuaeth y byddai’n gwrando ar lais y proffesiwn. Dywed y llais hwnnw wrthym yng Nghymru ei fod yn fodlon cyfaddawdu ar nifer o faterion. Mae’r proffesiwn yn croesawu nifer o bethau da sydd yn y Papur Gwyrdd, sy’n gadarnhaol mewn llawer ystyr. Er hynny, anghytuna athrawon â’r syniad o gysylltu cyflogau â pherfformiad disgyblion.

There is one point that you have not truly touched upon, and it worries the profession and I. When Peter Hain published the Green Paper, he said without doubt that he would listen to the voice of the profession. That voice tells us in Wales that it is prepared to compromise on a number of matters. The profession welcomes a number of good things in the Green Paper, which is positive in many ways. However, teachers disagree with the idea of linking salaries with pupil performance.

Wrth edrych ar y sefyllfa ac ymateb athrawon, mae cyfle euraidd i ni yng Nghymru ddod at ein gilydd i ddatblygu strwythur—a fyddai’n cynnwys gwerthusiad cyflog—unigryw i Gymru. Y nod sydd gennych yw gwneud Cymru yn wlad ragorol i addysgu a dysgu ynddi. Mawr obeithiaf y gwrandewch, fel yr addawodd Peter Hain, ar lais y proffesiwn wrth ymatal rhag cysylltu cyflog athrawon â pherfformiad disgyblion.

Looking at the situation and teachers’ response, there is a golden opportunity for us in Wales to come together to develop a structure—including pay evaluation—unique to Wales. Your goal is to make Wales an excellent country in which to educate and be educated in. I hope that you will listen, as Peter Hain promised, to the voice of the profession by refraining from linking teachers’ pay with pupil performance.

Rosemary Butler spoken in English p. 13

Rosemary Butler siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 13

I am listening as well as hearing. We are having some positive discussions with the unions. As you know, the Green Paper encompassed a range of matters and we are holding discussions across the board on those. The issue of performance-related promotion and the proposed large increases in money available to teachers is causing much interested debate. No teacher will be worse off, and many will be much better off. However, your point about having a distinctive system for Wales is well made. We are looking at a distinctive assessment approach for Wales. However, we cannot differ too much from England because, as has been said before, there is a lot of cross-border travel. There are teachers living in England who teach in Wales and vice versa. We must ensure that the teaching profession in Wales has as good an appraisal system as in England, if not better. We are working towards that. It is a slow process, but we are making headway.

Yr wyf yn gwrando yn ogystal â chlywed. Yr ydym yn cynnal trafodaethau adeiladol gyda’r undebau. Fel y gwyddoch, yr oedd y Papur Gwyrdd yn cwmpasu nifer o faterion ac yr ydym yn cynnal trafodaethau gyda phawb ynghylch y rheini. Mae pwnc dyrchafu ar sail perfformaid a’r cynnydd mawr arfaethedig yn yr arian sydd ar gael i athrawon yn destun llawer o drafod. Ni fydd yr un athro/athrawes yn waeth ei f/byd, a bydd llawer ar eu hennill. Fodd bynnag, mae eich pwynt am gael system ar wahân i Gymru’n bwynt da. Yr ydym yn chwilio am ddull asesu gwahanol i Gymru. Fodd bynnag, ni allwn fod yn rhy wahanol i Loegr, oherwydd, fel y dywedwyd o’r blaen, mae llawer o deithio’n digwydd yn ôl ac ymlaen dros y ffin. Mae athrawon sy’n byw yn Lloegr ac yn dysgu yng Nghymru a’r gwrthwyneb. Rhaid inni sicrhau bod gan y proffesiwn addysgu yng Nghymru drefn werthuso gystal ag sydd yn Lloegr, os nad gwell. Yr ydym yn gweithio tuag at hynny. Mae’n broses araf, ond yr ydym yn gwneud cynnydd.

Jonathan Morgan spoken in English p. 14

Jonathan Morgan siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 14

Could the Secretary tell us how much the external assessors will cost and what the cost is of training the headteachers and governors who will deal with the appraisal of this apparently rather bureaucratic scheme?

A allai’r Ysgrifennydd ddweud wrthym faint fydd cost yr aseswyr allanol a beth fydd cost hyfforddi’r penaethiaid a’r llywodraethwyr a fydd yn ymwneud â gwerthuso’r cynllun hwn sy’n ymddangos yn eithaf biwrocrataidd?

Rosemary Butler spoken in English p. 14

Rosemary Butler siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 14

I cannot give the actual figure but money is available for training. There is also money available for schools to ensure that the assessment is not an additional burden on their budgets. I will get the figures for you.

Ni allaf roi ffigwr bendant ichi ond mae arian ar gael ar gyfer hyfforddi. Mae arian ar gael hefyd i’r ysgolion er mwyn iddynt sicrhau nad yw’r asesu’n faich ychwanegol ar eu cyllidebau. Caf afael ar y ffigyrau ichi.

Janice Gregory spoken in English p. 14

Janice Gregory siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 14

I welcome the fact that in your recent statement you indicated that reviews of teachers’ performance will take into account the full range of their achievements, including their contribution to team priorities and their professional development. Will you give an assurance that these will form an important part of the appraisal mechanism, together with measures which recognise the contribution teachers make to their pupils’ achievements?

Croesawaf y ffaith eich bod wedi awgrymu yn eich datganiad diweddar y bydd adolygiadau ar berfformiad athrawon yn ystyried holl ystod yr hyn a gyflawnwyd ganddynt, gan gynnwys eu cyfraniad at flaenoriaethau tîm a’u datblygiad proffesiynol. A wnewch chi roi sicrwydd inni y bydd y rhain yn rhan bwysig o’r mecanwaith gwerthuso, ynghyd â mesurau sy’n cydnabod cyfraniad athrawon at yr hyn a gyflawna’u disgyblion?

Rosemary Butler spoken in English p. 14

Rosemary Butler siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 14

That is an important point and follows on from Gareth’s. There is a raft of matters we will consider with the unions: teamwork, Welsh-medium teaching, small schools. We will take into account the whole range of issues when we discuss this appraisal scheme.

Mae hwnnw’n bwynt pwysig ac mae’n dilyn un Gareth. Mae llu o bynciau y byddwn yn eu hystyried gyda’r undebau: gwaith tîm, addysgu drwy gyfrwng y Gyrmaeg, ysgolion bychain. Byddwn yn ystyried holl ystod y materion hyn wrth drafod y cynllun gwerthuso hwn.

Ad-drefnu Ysgolion mewn Ardaloedd Gwledig

Schools Rationalisation in Rural Areas

Q2 Richard Edwards spoken in English p. 14

C2 Richard Edwards siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 14

What plans does Rosemary Butler have to formulate a Welsh strategy for schools rationalisation in rural areas? (OAQ524VB)

Pa gynlluniau sydd gan Rosemary Butler i ffurfio strategaeth i Gymru ar gyfer ad-drefnu ysgolion mewn ardaloedd gwledig? (OAQ524VB)

Rosemary Butler spoken in English p. 15

Rosemary Butler siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 15

The planning and supply of school places is the responsibility of the local education authority. Section 26 of the School Standards and Framework Act 1998 requires each LEA in Wales to prepare and adopt a school organisation plan for its area. The plan informs the LEA and others about the need to add or remove school places within the LEA’s area. The first school organisation plans should be adopted in January 2000 and will last until July 2005.

Cyfrifoldeb yr awdurdod addysg lleol yw cynllunio a chyflenwi lleoedd mewn ysgolion. Mae Adran 26 Deddf Safonau a Fframwaith Ysgolion 1998 yn mynnu bod pob AALl yng Nghymru’n paratoi a mabwysiadu cynllun trefniadaeth ysgol ar gyfer ei ardal. Mae'r cynllun yn goleuo penderfyniadau’r AALl a chyrff eraill ynghylch a oes angen ychwanegu at nifer y lleoedd mewn ysgolion neu eu cwtogi yn ardal yr AALl. Dylai’r cynlluniau trefniadaeth ysgolion cyntaf gael eu mabwysiadu ym mis Ionawr 2000 a byddant yn para tan fis Gorffennaf 2005.

Richard Edwards spoken in English p. 15

Richard Edwards siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 15

Thank you for that response. As you know, Pembrokeshire County Council is pressing ahead with plans to merge some rural schools with small rolls. There are strong budgetary imperatives for this. There are arguments about cost-effectiveness and the best use of limited resources, as well as educational arguments. Set against this is a complex of social implications, not least of which is the potential damage to the fabric of community life in rural areas. Where schools are threatened with closure, parents and communities might feel less embattled and less like the victims of discrimination if there was a national plan for the rationalisation of schools in rural areas. Pembrokeshire is perceived to be striking out alone because in Carmarthenshire and Ceredigion, just over the county border, there is a different approach. That creates disharmony and a sense of injustice, a perception that there is not a level playing field. Do you agree that we should have a national schools service with a fair and consistent strategy throughout rural Wales, and that the Assembly should prioritise such an approach?

Diolch am yr ateb hwnnw. Fel y gwyddoch, mae Cyngor Sir Penfro yn bwrw ymlaen gyda chynlluniau i uno rhai ysgolion gwledig gyda nifer fach ar y gofrestr. Mae rhesymau ariannol cryf dros wneud hyn. Mae dadleuon ynghylch cost-effeithiolrwydd a’r defnydd gorau o adnoddau prin, yn ogystal â dadleuon addysgol. Ar ochr arall y glorian, mae nifer o oblygiadau cymdeithasol, gyda’r difrod y gellid ei wneud i hanfod bywyd cymunedau ardaloedd gwledig ymhlith y mwyaf ohonynt. Lle bo bygythiad i gau ysgolion, efallai y byddai rhieni a chymunedau’n teimlo’n llai fel petaent yn wynebu brwydr ac yn destun annhegwch pe bai cynllun cenedlaethol i ad-drefnu ysgolion ardaloedd gwledig. Mae’n ymddangos fel pe bai Sir Benfro yn gweithredu fel hyn ar ei phen ei hun, oherwydd yng Nghaerfyrddin a Cheredigion, y siroedd dros y ffin, dilynir trywydd gwahanol. Mae hyn yn creu anghytgord ac ymdeimlad o anghyfiawnder, a theimlad nad yw’r cae chwarae’n un gwastad. A ydych chi’n cytuno y dylai fod gennym wasanaeth ysgolion cenedlaethol sydd â strategaeth deg a chyson ledled y Gymru wledig, ac y dylai’r Cynulliad ystyried hyn yn flaenoriaeth?

Rosemary Butler spoken in English p. 15

Rosemary Butler siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 15

I do not agree with the idea of a national schools service. The Assembly must develop national strategies for the local authorities. It is then up to them to develop and deliver correct policies for those strategies. We talk about devolution from London to Wales; the Assembly should not take powers that rightly belong to local authorities. I am concerned about the number of unfilled schools in Wales and, as you mentioned, the consequent drain on resources. I also understand that a school can be a focus of community life. Decisions about closure therefore need to be taken at a local level. Where two authorities border each other, I hope that they hold discussions, because there is a cross-border transfer of children between schools.

Nid wyf yn cytuno gyda’r syniad o gael gwasanaeth ysgolion cenedlaethol. Rhaid i’r Cynulliad feithrin strategaethau cenedlaethol i’r awdurdodau lleol. Eu lle hwy wedyn yw datblygu a chreu’r polisïau cywir ar gyfer y strategaethau hynny. Yr ydym yn sôn am ddatganoli o Lundain i Gymru; ni ddylai’r Cynulliad ddwyn pwerau sy’n perthyn yn ddigon teg i’r awdurdodau lleol. Yr wyf yn bryderus ynghylch nifer yr ysgolion yng Nghymru nad ydynt yn llawn, ac fel y cyfeirioch chi ato, y ffaith fod hynny o ganlyniad yn draul ar adnoddau. Yr wyf hefyd yn deall y gall ysgol fod yn ganolbwynt bywyd y gymuned. Felly, rhaid gwneud penderfyniadau ynghylch cau ar lefel leol. Lle bo dau awdurdod yn rhannu ffin, gobeithiaf eu bod yn cynnal trafodaethau, oherwydd bod plant yn croesi’r ffin i fynd i’r ysgol.

Cynog Dafis siaradwyd yn Gymraeg t. 16

Cynog Dafis spoken in Welsh p. 16

Cefnogaf safbwynt yr Ysgrifennydd na ddylai fod polisi unffurf ar draws Cymru parthed darparu ysgolion mewn ardaloedd gwledig. Mae’n fater i’r awdurdodau lleol. Fodd bynnag, mae angen i’r awdurdodau lleol ddyfeisio strategaeth iawn ar ei gyfer. A yw’r Ysgrifennydd yn cydnabod bod newidiadau yn y system gyllido, yn enwedig rheolaeth i ysgolion yn lleol a dirprwyo mwy o gyllid yn orfodol o awdurdod lleol i’r ysgolion, yn rhoi pwysau ar ysgolion gwledig a bach?

I support the Secretary’s view that there should not be a uniform policy across Wales on schools provision in rural areas. It is a matter for local authorities. However, local authorities need to devise a correct strategy for this. Does the Secretary acknowledge that changes in the financial system, particularly local management of schools and the compulsory delegation of more finance from local authorities to schools, puts pressure on rural and small schools?

Yn ogystal â hynny mae gofyniad i bob ysgol gael ei chorff llywodraethol ei hunan yn lle clystyru i ffurfio cyrff llywodraethol. A yw hi’n cytuno bod angen adolygiad ar y fformiwla gyllido i ysgolion er mwyn eu galluogi i gynllunio yn fwy hyderus a rhoi sefydlogrwydd iddynt? Byddai hynny’n well na chaniatáu i’w tynged cael ei benderfynu’n sydyn o achos ymadawiad nifer o deuloedd ag ysgol ac felly gostyngiad yn nifer y staff ac ati.

In addition, every school is required to have its own governing body rather than clustering to form governing bodies. Does she agree that a review of the financial formula for schools is needed to enable them to plan more confidently and give them stability? That would be better than allowing their futures to be decided suddenly by the departure of several families from a school and thus a decrease in staff numbers and so on.

Rosemary Butler spoken in English p. 16

Rosemary Butler siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 16

There are several questions there. I agree that we must have a national strategy delivered locally. If it is not being delivered locally we need to address that and talk to the local authority to see why it is not happening. It is important that we have differences throughout Wales. One of the beauties of the Welsh nation is its variety. It is quite right that Pembroke could be different from somewhere else. I fully support that.

Yr ydych wedi gofyn sawl cwestiwn. Cytunaf fod rhaid inni gael strategaeth genedlaethol a weithredir yn lleol. Os nad yw’n cael ei gweithredu’n lleol, rhaid inni fynd i’r afael â hynny a siarad â’r awdurdod lleol i weld pam nad yw hynny’n digwydd. Mae’n bwysig bod gennym wahaniaethau drwy Gymru. Un o ragoriaethau’n cenedl y Cymry yw ei hamrywiaeth. Mae’n gwbl iawn i Sir Benfro fod yn wahanol i rywle arall. Yr wyf yn llwyr gefnogol i hynny.

The Under-16 Education Committee will look at the funding formula. If you have any observations to make, they would be welcome at that time. Your point does need to be taken into consideration. A few families moving out of an area could affect a school’s viability but if you hung on for another year, more families could come in. We need to be flexible and sympathetic whenever we can in these cases.

Bydd y Pwyllgor Addysg Dan-16 yn edrych ar y fformiwla cyllido. Os oes gennych unrhyw sylwadau i’w gwneud, byddent yn eu croesawu bryd hynny. Mae angen ystyried eich pwynt. Gallai’r ffaith fod ychydig o deuluoedd yn symud o ardal effeithio ar allu ysgol i barhau’n hyfyw ond petaech chi’n dal arni am flwyddyn arall, efallai y byddai rhagor o deuluoedd yn symud i mewn. Rhaid inni fod yn hyblyg ac yn llawn cydymdeimlad pa bryd bynnag y gallwn ni mewn achosion fel hyn.

William Graham spoken in English p. 17

William Graham siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 17

In a recent meeting the Under-16 Education Committee was particularly anxious to address this problem. It is one of three issues we intend to address as soon as possible. Regrettably, the information will not be fully available until the new year. We must have accurate and informative information and figures will be influenced by the intake in September. I assure the Assembly that the Committee will take evidence early in the new year. We welcome participants in that process. We feel that we may need to take evidence on this outside Cardiff. Parents in rural areas will not want to come to Cardiff but would come to somewhere more local to give their comments. The Committee will report in due course.

Mewn cyfarfod diweddar, yr oedd y Pwyllgor Addysg Dan-16 yn arbennig o awyddus i fynd i’r afael â’r broblem hon. Mae’n un o blith tri phwnc y bwriadwn fynd i’r afael â hwy cyn gynted ag y bo modd. Yn anffodus, ni fydd y wybodaeth ar gael i gyd tan y flwyddyn newydd. Rhaid inni gael gwybodaeth gywir ac ystyrlon a bydd y nifer a dderbynnir ym mis Medi’n dylanwadu ar y ffigyrau. Gallaf sicrhau’r Cynulliad y bydd y Pwyllgor yn derbyn tystiolaeth yn gynnar yn y flwyddyn newydd. Croesawn bobl i gyfranogi yn y broses honno. Teimlwn y gall fod angen inni dderbyn tystiolaeth am hyn y tu allan i Gaerdydd. Ni fydd rhieni ardaloedd gwledig am deithio i Gaerdydd ond byddent yn dod i rywle sy’n nes i’w cartrefi i gynnig eu sylwadau. Bydd y Pwyllgor yn paratoi adroddiad maes o law.

Rosemary Butler spoken in English p. 17

Rosemary Butler siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 17

I have no comment to make on that.

Nid oes gennyf sylw i’w wneud ar hynny.

Gwaith Papur a Chadw Cofnodion (Athrawon)

Paperwork and Record Keeping (Teachers)

Q3 Jenny Randerson spoken in English p. 17

C3 Jenny Randerson siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 17

What plans does Rosemary Butler have to initiate an urgent review of the paperwork and record keeping currently required of teachers in Wales? (OAQ541VB)

Pa gynlluniau sydd gan Rosemary Butler i gychwyn adolygiad brys o’r gwaith papur a’r cadw cofnodion y mae athrawon yng Nghymru yn gorfod ei gyflawni ar hyn o bryd? (OAQ541VB)

Rosemary Butler spoken in English p. 17

Rosemary Butler siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 17

There speaks a former teacher. The need to minimise paperwork and administration burdens on teachers is an important guiding principle in the preparation of new education policies in Wales. I shall ensure that these principles are borne in mind when we deal with any further administration changes.

Dyna ni lais cyn athrawes. Mae’r angen am leihau gwaith papur a baich gweinyddol athrawon yn egwyddor bwysig sy’n llywio’r gwaith o baratoi polisïau addysg newydd yng Nghymru. Byddaf yn sicrhau ein bod yn cadw’r egwyddorion hyn mewn cof wrth ymdrin ag unrhyw newidiadau gweinyddol pellach.

Jenny Randerson spoken in English p. 18

Jenny Randerson siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 18

I welcome that reply. However, given that we are currently considering appraisal, we need to change the increasing emphasis on paperwork. We would all endorse the principle that reward for good classroom practice is to be welcomed. Teachers were not trained to compile and copy out lists and analyse attendance returns. When the Government came into power, it pledged to reduce the burden of bureaucracy on teachers. So far, teachers strongly believe that the reverse has happened. Appraisal threatens to increase that burden yet again.

Croesawaf yr ateb hwnnw. Fodd bynnag, ag ystyried ein bod ar hyn o bryd yn ystyried gwerthuso, mae angen inni newid y pwyslais cynyddol ar waith papur. Byddem i gyd yn ategu’r egwyddor bod angen croesawu gwobrwyo gwaith da yn yr ystafell ddosbarth. Ni chafodd athrawon eu hyfforddi i lunio a chopïo rhestrau a dadansoddi ffurflenni presenoldeb. Pan ddaeth y Llywodraeth i rym, addawodd liniaru’r baich biwrocrataidd sydd ar athrawon. Hyd yn hyn, cred athrawon yn gryf bod y gwrthwyneb wedi digwydd. Mae gwerthuso’n bygwth cynyddu’r baich unwaith eto.

Rosemary Butler spoken in English p. 18

Rosemary Butler siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 18

We are aware that we need to limit the administrative burden on teachers. A Welsh Office circular, ‘Reducing the bureaucratic burden on teachers’, was issued in 1998. It provided practical guidelines to ensure effective use is made of teachers’ time. We need to work in conjunction with local education authorities to ensure that we do not ask teachers for data that the local authority asks for in a different format. We can work together in that. The circular was issued after close consultation and with the agreement of the teachers’ and the headteachers’ unions in Wales. I was under the impression that they felt that it helped the process. I am surprised that you say that there is more paperwork now.

Sylweddolwn fod angen inni liniaru’r baich gweinyddol ar athrawon. Cyhoeddwyd Cylchlythyr gan y Swyddfa Gymreig ym 1998 ‘Gostwng y baich biwrocrataidd ar athrawon’. Yr oedd yn cynnig canllawiau ymarferol i sicrhau bod amser athrawon yn cael ei ddefnyddio mewn ffordd effeithiol. Rhaid inni gydweithio gydag awdurdodau addysg lleol er mwyn sicrhau nad ydym yn gofyn i athrawon am ddata y mae’r awdurdod lleol yn gofyn amdano ar fformat gwahanol. Gallwn gydweithio yn hynny o beth. Cyhoeddwyd y cylchlythyr ar ôl ymgynghori’n ofalus a chyda chytundeb undebau’r penaethiaid a’r athrawon yng Nghymru. Yr oeddwn i dan yr argraff eu bod yn teimlo ei fod yn gymorth i’r broses. Yr wyf yn synnu eich bod yn dweud bod mwy o waith papur ganddynt yn awr.

As for attendance, it is important that we know when children are in school. However, it strikes me that there are extensive tick lists in places where they are not required. We need to look at that and ensure that people do not do unnecessary paperwork to cover themselves. That attitude must change. We must ensure that teachers’ time is freed up to teach.

Gyda golwg ar bresenoldeb, mae’n bwysig ein bod ni’n gwybod pa bryd y mae plant yn yr ysgol. Fodd bynnag, mae’n ymddangos i mi bod rhestrau ticio hirion mewn mannau lle nad oes mo’u hangen. Rhaid inni edrych ar hynny a sicrhau nad yw pobl yn gwneud gwaith papur dianghenraid er mwyn gwneud yn siwr eu bod yn iawn. Rhaid newid yr agwedd honno. Rhaid inni sicrhau bod amser athrawon yn cael ei ddefnyddio i addysgu.

Jocelyn Davies spoken in English p. 18

Jocelyn Davies siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 18

Would you consider prescribing the time spent by teachers on bureaucratic chores to enable them to spend more time using their skills, knowledge and training in the interests of teaching?

A fyddech chi’n ystyried pennu faint o amser y dylai athrawon ei dreulio ar dasgau biwrocrataidd er mwyn iddynt allu treulio rhagor o amser yn defnyddio’u sgiliau, eu gwybodaeth a’u hyfforddiant i addysgu?

Rosemary Butler spoken in English p. 19

Rosemary Butler siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 19

No, I would not like to prescribe for teachers in any way in this matter. I am sure that teachers, given the right conditions and terms of reference so they are not expected to fill in a multitude of forms, can manage their time themselves. The Assembly and I, as a Secretary responsible for schools, need to ensure that wherever possible, we strip out unnecessary bureaucracy. We are looking at this.

Na fyddwn. Ni fyddwn am bennu dim ar gyfer athrawon mewn unrhyw ffordd yn y cyswllt hwn. Yr wyf yn siwr, os yw athrawon yn cael yr amodau a’r cylch gorchwyl iawn fel nad oes disgwyl iddynt lenwi llu o ffurflenni, eu bod yn gallu rheoli eu hamser eu hunain. Mae angen i’r Cynulliad a finnau, fel yr Ysgrifennydd sy’n gyfrifol am ysgolion, sicrhau lle bynnag y bo modd, ein bod yn chwynnu unrhyw fiwrocratiaeth ddianghenraid. Yr ydym yn edrych ar hyn.

Adroddiadau ar Ysgolion (Iaith)

Reports on Schools (Language)

Q4 Jenny Randerson spoken in English p. 19

C4 Jenny Randerson siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 19

Are there any plans that inspectors’ reports on schools in Wales with a high proportion of ethnic minority pupils will be supplied in a language other than English and Welsh, as appropriate, without charge to the school concerned? (OAQ535VB)

A oes unrhyw gynlluniau i ddarparu adroddiadau arolygwyr ar ysgolion yng Nghymru lle ceir cyfran uchel o ddisgyblion o leiafrifoedd ethnig mewn iaith arall ar wahân i’r Saesneg a’r Gymraeg, fel sy’n briodol, heb godi ar yr ysgol berthnasol? (OAQ535VB)

Rosemary Butler spoken in English p. 19

Rosemary Butler siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 19

This is a matter for each governing body. They are responsible for the dissemination of inspectors’ reports. Reports are produced in English, or in Welsh and English, at the request of each governing body in accordance with the LEA’s language policy. I am not aware of any requests for a report in another language.

Mater i bob corff llywodraethol yw hyn. Hwy sy’n gyfrifol am ddosbarthu adroddiadau’r arolygwyr. Cynhyrchir adroddiadau yn Saesneg, neu yn Gymraeg ac yn Saesneg yn ôl cais pob corff llywodraethu yn unol â pholisi iaith yr AALl. Nid wyf yn ymwybodol o unrhyw gais am adroddiad mewn iaith arall.

Jenny Randerson spoken in English p. 19

Jenny Randerson siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 19

I have seen copies of correspondence about this between a chair of governors and the Office of Her Majesty’s Chief Inspector of Schools. The cost of these reports, if supplied to schools, would be in excess of £100. Do you agree that this places an additional burden on the schools that in some ways face the greatest problems? Given that this situation will probably apply to only a handful of schools in Wales, would not it be an important and useful step to improve understanding among racial groups and social inclusion if these reports were supplied to these schools free of charge? The total cost on the education budget would be small.

Yr wyf wedi gweld copïau o ohebiaeth ynghylch hyn rhwng cadeirydd llywodraethwyr a Swyddfa Prif Arolygydd Ysgolion Ei Mawrhydi. Pe bai’r adroddiadau hyn yn cael eu darparu ar gyfer ysgolion, byddai’n costio dros £100. A ydych chi’n cytuno bod hyn yn gosod baich ychwanegol ar yr ysgolion hynny sydd mewn rhai ffyrdd yn wynebu’r problemau mwyaf? Ag ystyried mai dim ond i lond llaw o ysgolion yng Nghymru y byddai’r sefyllfa hon yn codi, oni fyddai’n gam pwysig a defnyddiol tuag at wella’r ddealltwriaeth ymhlith grwpiau gwahanol hiliau a chynhwyso cymdeithasol pe bai’r adroddiadau hyn yn cael eu darparu i’r ysgolion yn rhad ac am ddim? Bychan fyddai cyfanswm i gost i’r gyllideb addysg.

Rosemary Butler spoken in English p. 20

Rosemary Butler siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 20

Dissemination of inspection reports is a matter for the board of governors. Parents who have concerns about reports should approach the governors in the first instance. Schools are not required to publish inspection reports. A copy must be made available for any parents who ask for it; otherwise, schools are only required to distribute the report’s summary. I am not aware of any great concerns having been expressed about this. However, I would be happy to look at any problems you have. I suspect that, in the areas you are talking about, the local education authority would have funding in its budget to deal with the cost of translation into a third language. I refer to the former section 11 money.

Mater i’r bwrdd llywodraethu yw dosbarthu adroddiadau arolygiad. Dylai rhieni sy’n bryderus ynghylch adroddiadau fynd at y llywodraethwyr yn y lle cyntaf. Nid oes gofyn i ysgolion gyhoeddi adroddiadau arolygiad. Rhaid darparu copi i unrhyw riant sy’n gofyn am un; fel arall, nid oes ond gofyn i ysgolion ddosbarthu crynodeb o’r adroddiad. Nid wyf yn ymwybodol bod unrhyw bryder mawr wedi’i fynegi ynghylch hyn. Fodd bynnag, byddwn yn hapus i edrych ar unrhyw broblem sydd gennych. Yr wyf yn lled amau, yn yr ardaloedd yr ydym yn sôn amdanynt, y byddai gan yr awdurdod addysg lleol arian yn ei gyllideb i dalu am gost cyfieithu i drydedd iaith. Cyfeiriaf at yr arian hen adran 11.

Owen John Thomas siaradwyd yn Gymraeg t. 20

Owen John Thomas spoken in Welsh p. 20

O ystyried bod nifer cynyddol o blant mewn ysgolion yng Nghymru â ieithoedd catref megis Urdu, Bengali a Somali, a fydd yr Ysgrifennydd yn lansio ymgyrch i annog plant o’r fath gefndiroedd i ddod yn athrawon fel y gallant helpu i ddysgu disgyblion nad yw’r Saesneg na’r Gymraeg yn iaith gyntaf iddynt?

Given the increasing number of children in schools in Wales with first languages such as Urdu, Bengali and Somali, will the Secretary launch a campaign to encourage children from such backgrounds to become teachers so that they can help teach pupils whose first language is neither English nor Welsh?

Rosemary Butler spoken in English p. 20

Rosemary Butler siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 20

I will do all I can to ensure that that path is open to people. I felt strongly about these language issues in the run up to the Assembly elections. In my constituency there are more people who speak Urdu than Welsh. However, there is no information available about the National Assembly for Wales in Urdu. It was a glaring example of a hole in the system. We should do everything we can to encourage anybody from any nationality to become teachers.

Gwnaf bopeth ag y gallaf i sicrhau bod y llwybr ar agor i bobl. Yr oeddwn yn teimlo’n gryf am y materion ieithyddol hyn yn ystod y cyfnod a arweiniai at etholiadau’r Cynulliad. Yn fy etholaeth i, mae mwy o bobl sy’n siarad Urdu nac sy’n siarad Cymraeg. Fodd bynnag, nid oes dim gwybodaeth ar gael am Gynulliad Cenedlaethol Cymru yn Urdu. Yr oedd hyn yn enghraifft amlwg o fwlch yn y drefn. Dylem wneud popeth ag y gallwn i annog unrhyw un o unrhyw genedl i ddod yn athrawon.

Val Feld spoken in English p. 20

Val Feld siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 20

Is Rosemary satisfied with the numbers of people from black and ethnic minority communities who are currently members of school governing bodies? If she is not, does she have plans, or would she consider developing plans, to increase participation on school governing bodies by people from black and Asian communities?

A yw Rosemary’n fodlon gyda’r nifer o bobl o gymunedau du a lleiafrifoedd ethnig sy’n aelodau o gyrff llywodraethu ysgolion ar hyn o bryd? Os nad yw, a oes ganddi gynlluniau, neu a fyddai hi’n ystyried datblygu cynlluniau, i ehangu cyfranogiad ar gyrff llywodraethu ysgolion gan bobl o gymunedau du ac Asiaidd?

Rosemary Butler spoken in English p. 21

Rosemary Butler siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 21

No, I am not satisfied with the numbers. I am satisfied with the quality of those few on governing bodies, but the numbers are far below what one would expect. The same is true of justices of the peace and the whole range of public appointments. I will talk to Governors Wales and ensure that it is aware that it should encourage more people from black and ethnic minorities to take part in school governance. An education programme needs to be put in place. I am looking at that and will submit a report to the Committee on Equality of Opportunity at the soonest opportunity.

Nac ydwyf. Nid wyf yn fodlon ar y nifer. Yr wyf yn fodlon gydag ansawdd yr ychydig sydd ar y cyrff llywodraethu, ond mae’r nifer yn llawer is nag y byddai rhywun yn ei ddisgwyl. Y mae’r un peth yn wir am ynadon heddwch a’r holl ystod o benodiadau cyhoeddus. Byddaf yn siarad â Llywodraethwyr Cymru ac yn sicrhau bod y corff hwnnw’n ymwybodol y dylai annog rhagor o bobl o leiafrifoedd du ac ethnig i fod yn rhan o lywodraethu ysgolion. Mae angen sefydlu rhaglen addysgu. Yr wyf yn edrych ar hynny a byddaf yn cyflwyno adroddiad i’r Pwyllgor ar Gyfle Cyfartal cyn gynted ag y gallaf.

Cwestiwn Brys

Urgent Question

Gweithfeydd Dur Brymbo

Brymbo Steelworks

Dafydd Elis-Thomas The Presiding Officer spoken in English p. 21

Dafydd Elis-Thomas Y Llywydd siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 21

I have accepted a request from Karen Sinclair to ask the First Secretary an urgent question under Standing Order No. 6.31.

Derbyniais gais gan Karen Sinclair i ofyn cwestiwn brys i’r Prif Ysgrifennydd dan Reol Sefydlog Rhif 6.31.

Karen Sinclair spoken in English p. 21

Karen Sinclair siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 21

Will the First Secretary consider the representations being led by Wrexham County Borough Council and others, including myself, for the reinstatement of Brymbo on the assisted area map?

A wnaiff y Prif Ysgrifennydd ystyried yr ymgyrch dan arweiniad Cyngor Bwrdeistref Sirol Wrecsam ac eraill, gan fy nghynnwys innau, am ailgynnwys Brymbo ar fap yr ardaloedd sy’n derbyn cymorth.

Alun Michael The First Secretary spoken in English p. 21

Alun Michael Y Prif Ysgrifennydd siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 21

I will look at any representations and I fully appreciate Brymbo’s needs. The drawing up of the assisted areas map has been a complex and long drawn out technical exercise, which has been complicated by the criteria that had to be met and the population ceiling for the UK. Wales has done uniquely well, with Ystradgynlais, Machynlleth and parts of south and north-east Wales being given assisted area status, as well as the entire Objective 1 area, which includes the Valleys, west Wales and a major part of north Wales.

Edrychaf ar unrhyw ddadleuon a gwerthfawrogaf yn llawn anghenion Brymbo. Bu’r gwaith o lunio map yr ardaloedd sy’n derbyn cymorth yn broses dechnegol gymhleth a hirfaith, a gymhlethwyd gan y meini prawf yr oedd rhaid inni eu cyflawnai a’r nenfwd poblogaeth ar gyfer y DU. Mae Cymru wedi gwneud yn arbennig o dda, gydag Ystradgynlais, Machynlleth a rhannau o’r de a’r gogledd-ddwyrain yn cael statws ardal sy’n derbyn cymorth, yn ogystal â holl ardal Amcan 1 sy’n cynnwys y Cymoedd, y gorllewin a’r rhan helaethaf o’r gogledd.

There are other ways to assist Brymbo. We will look at the issue of business support this summer. That may include designating areas for assistance for small and medium size firms. Brymbo’s needs will be taken into account. At present Brymbo retains development area status and we will do all we can to capitalise on this for the rest of the year.

Gallwn gynorthwyo Brymbo mewn ffyrdd eraill. Byddwn yn edrych ar fater cefnogi busnes yr haf hwn. Efallai y bydd hynny’n cynnwys dynodi ardaloedd lle dylai cwmnïau bach a chanolig gael cymorth. Bydd anghenion Brymbo’n cael eu hystyried. Ar hyn o bryd, mae Brymbo’n dal i gadw’i statws ardal datblygu a gwnawn bopeth i fanteisio ar hyn yn ystod gweddill y flwyddyn.

Karen Sinclair spoken in English p. 22

Karen Sinclair siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 22

The Welsh Development Agency and the owners of Brymbo are discussing a reclamation scheme for the old steelworks site. What hope can you offer that this scheme will go ahead despite Brymbo losing development area status?

Mae Awdurdod Datblygu Cymru a pherchnogion Brymbo yn trafod cynllun adfer ar gyfer safle’r hen waith dur. Pa obaith y gallwch chi ei gynnig y bydd y cynllun hwn yn mynd yn ei flaen er gwaetha’r ffaith fod Brymbo wedi colli ei statws ardal datblygu?

Alun Michael The First Secretary spoken in English p. 22

Alun Michael Y Prif Ysgrifennydd siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 22

There are discussions and we hope that an agreement will be made in the next few weeks so that the scheme can go ahead.

Mae trafodaethau ar y gweill a gobeithiwn y ceir cytundeb yn ystod yr wythnosau nesaf er mwyn i’r cynllun fynd rhagddo.

Janet Ryder spoken in English p. 22

Janet Ryder siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 22

Brymbo is not the only area excluded in north Wales. It is hard to see why areas such as Brymbo and Point of Ayr were excluded. If you are looking again at Brymbo, given that there are projects that might need help there, will you give an assurance that you will look again at Point of Ayr?

Nid Brymbo yw’r unig ardal sydd heb ei chynnwys yn y gogledd. Mae’n anodd gweld pam fod ardaloedd megis Brymbo a’r Parlwr Du wedi’u hepgor. Os ydych chi’n edrych eto ar Frymbo, gan dderbyn bod prosiectau y dylid efallai eu cynorthwyo yno, a wnewch chi roi sicrwydd inni y byddwch chi’n edrych eto ar y Parlwr Du?

Alun Michael The First Secretary spoken in English p. 22

Alun Michael Y Prif Ysgrifennydd siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 22

Areas have not been excluded; they have been included. This is a question of mental approach: is your glass half empty or is it half full? We have managed to get the glass remarkably near to full in the discussions that have taken place about assisted area status. I have been involved in those discussions and know how complex and difficult the negotiations have been. For those parts of Wales outside the Objective 1 area, we have a real opportunity to capitalise on assisted area status. As I indicated earlier, there is a ceiling in population terms on the areas that can be covered and that is why there has been a great deal of work to decide which areas to include and which to exclude.

Nid yw ardaloedd wedi’u hegpor: maent wedi’u cynnwys. Mater o agwedd meddwl yw hyn: a yw eich gwydr yn hanner gwag ynteu’n hanner llawn? Llwyddwyd i sicrhau bod y gwydr yn rhyfeddol o lawn yn ystod y trafodaethau a gynhaliwyd am statws ardaloedd sy’n derbyn cymorth. Bum yn rhan o’r trafodaethau hynny a gwn ba mor gymhleth ac anodd oedd y negodi. Ar gyfer y rhannau hynny o Gymru sydd y tu allan i ardal Amcan 1, mae gennym gyfle gwirioneddol i fanteisio ar statws ardal sy’n derbyn cymorth. Fel a awgrymais ynghynt, mae nenfwd poblogaeth ar yr ardaloedd y gellir eu cynnwys a dyna paham yr oedd rhaid gwneud llawer o waith er mwyn penderfynu pa ardaloedd i’w cynnwys a pha ardaloedd i’w hepgor.

We have focused on the opportunities to ensure that development is helping the designated areas in the assisted area map as well as those contiguous to it. I am relieved that we managed to include parts of north-east Wales, Gwent and the old south Glamorgan as well as Ystradgynlais and Machynlleth. It is very good news. I am always willing to consider representations about a particular area. This draft map must first be approved by the European Union. That approval would benefit Wales and I am hopeful that we are close to getting it.

Yr ydym wedi canolbwyntio ar y cyfleoedd er mwyn sicrhau bod datblygu’n helpu’r ardaloedd a bennwyd ar fap ardaloedd sy’n derbyn cymorth yn ogystal â’r rheini sy’n ffinio arnynt. Yr wyf yn falch ein bod wedi llwyddo i gynnwys rhannau o’r gogledd-ddwyrain, Gwent a’r hen dde Morgannwg yn ogystal ag Ystradgynlais a Machynlleth. Mae hyn yn newyddion da iawn. Yr wyf bob amser yn barod i ystyried dadleuon o blaid ardal benodol. Rhaid i’r map drafft hwn gael ei gymeradwy gyntaf gan Undeb Ewrop. Byddai’r gymeradwyaeth honno o fudd i Gymru a gobeithiaf ein bod yn agos at sicrhau hynny.

David Melding spoken in English p. 23

David Melding siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 23

I had representations from residents in Barry and parts of Penarth, who were greatly shocked that these areas had been excluded from the map and that parts of the rural Vale had been included. That is a curious distinction.

Mae trigolion yn y Barri a rhannau o Benarth wedi cysylltu â mi am eu bod wedi synnu’n fawr nad oedd yr ardaloedd hyn wedi’u cynnwys ar y map a bod rhannau o’r Fro wledig wedi’u cynnwys. Mae gwahaniaethu fel hyn yn rhyfedd.

Alun Michael The First Secretary spoken in English p. 23

Alun Michael Y Prif Ysgrifennydd siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 23

Not at all. You have not understood. It is not a question of including different areas but of considering development opportunities, as well as problems with GDP, employment and the strength of economic activity. In the Vale of Glamorgan, most people who understand the south Wales economy would agree that the airport area is vital. The map includes that, and taking advantage of opportunities close to the airport is very good news for people in Barry and Penarth as well as in Bridgend, Cardiff and south-east Wales as a whole.

Dim o gwbl. Nid ydych wedi deall. Nid mater o gynnwys gwahanol ardaloedd yw hyn ond ystyried cyfleoedd i ddatblygu, yn ogystal â phroblemau gyda GDP, cyflogaeth a nerth gweithgarwch economaidd. Ym Mro Morgannwg, byddai’r rhan fwyaf o’r bobl sy’n deall economi’r de yn cytuno bod ardal y maes awyr yn holl bwysig. Mae’r map yn cynnwys hynny, ac mae manteisio ar gyfleoedd yng nghyffiniau’r maes awyr yn newyddion da iawn i bobl yn y Barri a Phenarth yn ogystal ag ym Mhen-y-bont, Caerdydd a’r de-ddwyrain drwyddi draw.

Datganiad ar Dy Crugywel

Statement on Crickhowell House

Alun Michael The First Secretary spoken in English p. 23

Alun Michael Y Prif Ysgrifennydd siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 23

During yesterday’s debate on the new Assembly building, Rod Richards asked me whether I had extended the lease on Crickhowell House. I said that I had not done so personally but that I would find out whether the lease had been extended. I undertook to find out and inform the Assembly and him. I can now provide the answer. When the previous Secretary of State for Wales finalised the deal to purchase site 1E for £1 on 150-year lease, changes were negotiated to the existing leases on the Crickhowell House site. There are two leases: one for block A, and one for blocks B and C, which had 20 years left to run. At that stage they were replaced by new, more flexible 25-year leases. The new leases resulted in a five-year deferral of the rent review, originally due in autumn 1998. It is obvious how the Assembly will benefit from that decision. The new leases brought car parking provision in line with Cardiff County Council recommendations. They also brought the period of the lease on this site in line with the lease for the new one.

Yn ystod y ddadl ddoe ar adeilad newydd y Cynulliad, gofynnodd Rod Richards imi a oeddwn wedi ymestyn y les ar Dy Crugywel. Dywedais nad oeddwn wedi gwneud hynny fy hun ond y byddwn yn cael gwybod a oedd y les wedi’i hymestyn ai peidio. Euthum ati i gael gwybod er mwyn hysbysu’r Cynulliad ac yntau. Erbyn hyn, gallaf roi’r ateb ichi. Pan gwblhaodd cyn Ysgrifennydd Gwladol Cymru’r trafodion i brynu safle 1E am £1 ar les 150 mlynedd, trafodwyd newidiadau’r lesiau a oedd eisoes yn bod ar safle Ty Crugywel. Mae dwy les: un ar gyfer bloc A, ac un ar gyfer blociau B ac C, a oedd ag 20 mlynedd ar ôl arnynt. Adeg honno, cawsant eu disodli gan lesiau newydd mwy hyblyg am 25 mlynedd. O ganlyniad i’r lesiau newydd, gohiriwyd yr adolygiad rhent a oedd i fod i gael ei gynnal yn Hydref 1998 am bum mlynedd. Mae’n amlwg sut y bydd y Cynulliad yn elwa o’r penderfyniad hwnnw. Gyda’r lesiau newydd, sicrhawyd darpariaeth parcio ceir yn unol ag argymhellion Cyngor Sir Caerdydd. Yr oeddent hefyd yn golygu bod cyfnod y les ar y safle hwn yn cydredeg â’r les ar gyfer yr un newydd.

Two sets of professional advisers—an independent firm and professional estates advisers for the Welsh Office—concluded that the overall package represented good value for money.

Casgliad dau set o ymgynghorwyr proffesiynol—cwmni annibynnol ac ymgynghorwyr ystadau proffesiynol ar ran y Swyddfa Gymreig—oedd bod y pecyn cyffredinol yn cynnig gwerth da am arian.

Rod Richards spoken in English p. 24

Rod Richards siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 24

Yesterday the First Secretary said that he did not know the answer, which just goes to show that he does not know his Assembly building from his elbow. What is the net present value of the new extended lease? He presented a case to the Assembly for a financial commitment to proceed with a new building, why did not he know there was an extended lease? Will he give us a reassessment of the net present value of the options available to the Government, so that they can be scrutinised in good time? Mr Llywydd, it did not escape my notice that the First Secretary gave you the minimum notice possible of this statement so that nobody could prepare.

Ddoe, dywedodd y Prif Ysgrifennydd nad oedd yn gwybod yr ateb, sy’n profi nad yw’n gwybod y gwahaniaeth rhwng adeilad y Cynulliad a’i benelin ei hun. Beth yw gwerth net y les estynedig newydd ar hyn o bryd? Cyflwynodd ddadl gerbron y Cynulliad o blaid ymrwymiad ariannol i fwrw ymlaen gydag adeilad newydd, pam nad oedd yn gwybod bod les estynedig newydd? A fyddai gystal â rhoi inni ailasesiad o werth net y dewisiadau sydd ar gael i’r Llywodraeth ar hyn o bryd, er mwyn iddynt gael eu harchwilio mewn da bryd? Mr Llywydd, sylwais fod y Prif Ysgrifennydd wedi rhoi cyn lleied o rybudd ag yr oedd modd am y datganiad hwn fel na allai neb baratoi.

Dafydd Elis-Thomas The Presiding Officer spoken in English p. 24

Dafydd Elis-Thomas Y Llywydd siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 24

Order. Matters relating to order in this Chamber, and whether or not to allow statements by members of the Cabinet, are for me. They are not for any other Member, including party leaders.

Trefn. Fi sy’n gyfrifol am faterion sy’n ymwneud â threfn yn y Siambr hon, ac am benderfynu a ddylid caniatáu datganiadau gan aelodau o’r Cabinet. Nid oes a wnelo unrhyw Aelod arall, gan gynnwys arweinyddion pleidiau, â hynny.

Rod Richards spoken in English p. 24

Rod Richards siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 24

Will The First Secretary give the Assembly an undertaking that the Government will not make a financial commitment until a new comparison of net present values over the full period of the new Crickhowell House lease is made? While he is giving us the answer, could he explain how the deferred completion of the proposed new building has a zero cost when anybody involved in the construction industry would tell him that there is one?

A wnaiff y Prif Ysgrifennydd addo i’r Cynulliad na fydd y Llywodraeth yn gwneud ymrwymiad ariannol nes y gwneir cymhariaeth newydd o’r gwerthoedd net ar hyn o bryd dros gyfnod llawn les newydd Ty Crugywel? Wrth iddo roi’r ateb inni, a allai egluro sut mae’r gohirio cwblhau ar yr adeilad newydd arfaethedig yn mynd i gostio dim pan fyddai unrhyw un sy’n gweithio yn y diwydiant adeiladu’n dweud wrtho y bydd hynny’n arwain at gostau?

Alun Michael The First Secretary spoken in English p. 25

Alun Michael Y Prif Ysgrifennydd siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 25

Perhaps for Rod’s assistance I can do this simply: this is an elbow, that was an attempt to make a crude political point. I gave the Assembly the relevant information at the first opportunity. I made inquiries yesterday, immediately after the Assembly completed its afternoon session. I was provided with that information as I entered the Chamber this afternoon. I read it in my chair during questions and I passed a note to Rod Richards because I thought I should provide the information as quickly as possible, out of courtesy to the Assembly. I hope that is the right way to do it. I am sure you will tell me, Mr Llywydd, if it is not.

Efallai er mwyn cynorthwyo Rod y gallaf wneud hyn yn syml: penelin yw hwn, ymdrech i wneud pwynt gwleidyddol amrwd oedd honno. Rhoddais y wybodaeth berthnasol i’r Cynulliad ar y cyfle cyntaf. Gwneuthum ymholiadau ddoe, yn syth ar ôl i’r Cynulliad gwblhau ei sesiwn prynhawn. Cefais y wybodaeth honno wrth imi fynd i mewn i’r Siambr y prynhawn yma. Fe’i darllenais yn fy nghadair yn ystod y cwestiynau a rhoddais nodyn i Rod Richards am fy mod yn meddwl y dylwn roi’r wybodaeth iddo cyn gynted ag y bo modd, o ran cwrteisi i’r Cynulliad. Gobeithiaf mai dyma’r ffordd iawn o fod o’i chwmpas hi. Yr wyf yn siwr y dywedwch wrthyf, Mr Llywydd, os nad wyf yn iawn.

The deferred completion that Rod mentioned is one of those little mysteries that finds its way onto the front page of the Western Mail. There is no question of deferred completion, as the journalist who wrote that article was told yesterday. I am sure there will be a correction in the Western Mail tomorrow. There has been careful analysis of the alternatives and the costs of different options. That information has been provided comprehensively to the party leaders who requested it. I hoped that the party leaders wanted it to inform their views and decision-making—I know that is the case with two of them—rather than to try to score crude points. Although it is not today’s debate, I believe that alternative sites such as City Hall, would have been far more expensive than the option we chose. My predecessor was correct to make that decision. The information is available for scrutiny by Assembly Members.

Mae gohirio’r cwblhau y soniodd Rod amdano’n un o’r dirgelion bychain hynny’n sy’n canfod ei ffordd i dudalen flaen y Western Mail. Nid oes dim cwestiwn o ohirio’r cwblhau, fel y dywedwyd wrth y newyddiadurwr a ysgrifennydd yr erthygl ddoe. Yr wyf yn siwr y bydd cywiriad yn y Western Mail yfory. Dadansoddwyd y dewisiadau a chostau’r gwahanol opsiynau’n ofalus. Darparwyd y wybodaeth honno’n gynhwysfawr i arweinyddion y pleidiau a ofynnodd amdani. Yr wyf yn gobeithio bod arweinyddion y pleidiau am gael y wybodaeth i oleuo’n barn a’u cynorthwyo i wneud penderfyniadau—gwn fod hynny’n wir am ddau ohonynt—yn hytrach nag er mwyn sgorio pwyntiau amrwd. Er nad hon yw’r ddadl heddiw, credaf y byddai safleoedd eraill megis Neuadd y Ddinas, wedi bod yn llawer drutach na’r opsiwn a ddewiswyd. Yr oedd fy rhagflaenydd yn gywir i wneud y penderfyniad hwnnw. Mae’r wybodaeth ar gael i’w harchwilio gan Aelodau’r Cynulliad.

Ron Davies spoken in English p. 25

Ron Davies siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 25

I am grateful to the First Secretary for putting that information before the Assembly. Perhaps he would confirm that, as a Member of Parliament in a previous incarnation, he would have been aware that all this information was put in the House of Commons Library and was freely available to anybody who wanted to access it.

Yr wyf yn ddiolchgar i’r Prif Ysgrifennydd am roi’r wybodaeth honno gerbron y Cynulliad. Efallai y byddai’n cadarnhau, fel Aelod Seneddol mewn bywyd blaenorol, y byddai wedi bod yn ymwybodol fod yr holl wybodaeth hon wedi’i rhoi yn Llyfrgell Ty’r Cyffredin ac ar gael yn rhwydd i bawb a oedd am ei gweld.

I would like him to join me in confirming that his statement verifies two things. Firstly, that the decision taken last year and those taken subsequently represent the best possible value for money. Secondly, that they were essential decisions for those people anxious to ensure that the process of devolution moved ahead as quickly as possible so that the new National Assembly had a fitting home at some point in the not-too-distant future. Would he confirm that it is time for us to look ahead, and consider what the National Assembly can do for the people of Wales rather than pick over decisions taken 12 or 15 months ago?

Hoffwn iddo ymuno â mi a chadarnhau fod ei ddatganiad yn ategu dau beth. Yn gyntaf, bod y penderfyniad a gymerwyd y llynedd a’r rheini a gymerwyd wedi hynny’n cynrychioli’r gwerth gorau posibl am arian. Yn ail, eu bod yn benderfyniadau hanfodol i’r bobl hynny sy’n awyddus i sicrhau bod proses datganoli’n symud yn ei blaen cyn gynted ag yr oedd modd fel bod gan y Cynulliad Cenedlaethol newydd gartref addas rywbryd yn y dyfodol gweddol agos. A fyddai’n cadarnhau ei bod hi’n bryd inni edrych ymlaen, ac ystyried beth y gall y Cynulliad Cenedlaethol ei wneud dros bobl Cymru yn hytrach na throi a throsi dros benderfyniadau a gymerwyd 12 neu 15 mis yn ôl?

Alun Michael The First Secretary spoken in English p. 26

Alun Michael Y Prif Ysgrifennydd siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 26

I can confirm that the information was placed in the House of Commons Library, which is accessible to all Members of Parliament and a variety of people through them. I can also confirm that as a Member of Parliament, I sought information from Ron when he was Secretary of State, and I was provided with answers to all the questions that I raised. I appreciate that there were very difficult decisions to make. However all those people who wanted to engage properly in the debate were shown the same courtesy.

Gallaf gadarnhau fod y wybodaeth wedi’i gosod yn Llyfrgell Ty’r Cyffredin, sydd ar agor i bob Aelod Seneddol ac amrywiaeth o bobl drwyddynt. Gallaf hefyd gadarnhau, fel Aelod Seneddol, imi geisio gwybodaeth gan Ron pan oedd yn Ysgrifennydd Gwladol ac iddo roi atebion imi i’r holl gwestiynau a godais. Yr wyf yn sylweddol bod llawer o benderfyniadau anodd iawn i’w gwneud. Fodd bynnag, dangoswyd yr un cwrteisi i bawb a oedd am gyfrannu’n iawn at y ddadl.

The path we chose provides the best value for money. I am content with the decisions made up to now. It was a difficult situation that caused a certain amount of difficulty elsewhere, for example, in Swansea. However, one of the attractive things about visiting Swansea these days is the way in which that city is so positive about its future. The Maritime Museum and the swimming pool prove that Swansea is on the up and up and that is a great pleasure. I agree that it is time for us to look ahead. I look forward to the Conservative Party starting to become more a part of this Assembly and contributing to the future rather than always raking over the coals of the past.

Y llwybr a ddewiswyd gennym sy’n darparu’r gwerth gorau am arian. Yr wyf yn fodlon gyda’r penderfyniadau a wnaethpwyd hyd yn hyn. Yr oedd yn sefyllfa anodd a achosodd rywfaint o anhawster mewn mannau eraill, yn Abertawe, er enghraifft. Fodd bynnag, un o’r pethau deniadol am ymweld ag Abertawe y dyddia hyn yw’r ffordd y mae’r ddinas honno mor galonogol am ei dyfodol. Mae’r Amgueddfa Forwrol a’r pwll nofio’n profi bod Abertawe’n codi yn y byd ac mae hynny’n destun balchder. Cytunaf ei bod hi’n bryd inni edrych ymlaen. Edrychaf ymlaen at weld y Blaid Geidwadol yn dechrau bod yn fwy o ran o’r Cynulliad hwn ac yn cyfrannu at y dyfodol yn hytrach na mynnu codi hen sgerbydau o hyd.

Nick Bourne spoken in English p. 27

Nick Bourne siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 27

I assure you that we can be successful at times. Thank you for your statement; we are grateful for that information. However, you need to address the present net value of the extended lease in your response and if you have not got the information at the moment perhaps you could publish it. I accept that we have to look forward but, as you outlined in your earlier statement, there is an issue here of best value.

Gallaf eich sicrhau ein bod yn gallu bod yn llwyddiannus ar brydiau. Diolch ichi am eich datganiad; yr ydym yn ddiolchgar am y wybodaeth honno. Fodd bynnag, mae angen ichi fynd i’r afael â gwerth net y les estynedig ar hyn o bryd yn eich ymateb ac os nad yw’r wybodaeth gennych ar hyn o bryd, efallai y gallech ei chyhoeddi. Yr wyf yn derbyn bod rhaid inni edrych ymlaen, ond fel y soniasoch yn eich datganiad blaenorol, y gwerth gorau yw’r hyn sydd dan sylw yma.

Alun Michael The First Secretary spoken in English p. 27

Alun Michael Y Prif Ysgrifennydd siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 27

Calculations have been undertaken and I have provided this information to the leaders of the four parties. This demonstrates that the present net value is value for money in terms of the proposal which we agreed here yesterday. However, I am content to look at that information and consider the best way it can be provided to all Members of the Assembly.

Mae’r gwaith wedi’i wneud ar y ffigyrau ac yr wyf wedi darparu’r wybodaeth hon i arweinyddion y pedair plaid. Mae hyn yn dangos bod y gwerth net presennol yn werth am arian gyda golwg ar y cynnig y cytunwyd arno yma ddoe. Fodd bynnag, yr wyf yn fodlon edrych ar y wybodaeth honno ac ystyried y ffordd orau o’i darparu i holl Aelodau’r Cynulliad.

Datganiad ar Gynhyrchion Anifeiliaid

Statement on Animal Products

Jane Hutt The Secretary for Health and Social Services spoken in English p. 27

Jane Hutt Yr Ysgrifennydd Iechyd a Gwasanaethau Cymdeithasol siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 27

I am sure you will want to know that on 15 July, I agreed that the Food Emergency Control (No. 2) Order 1999 should be made by the Minister of Agriculture, Fisheries and Food to cover England and Wales. This order is about animals and animal products from Belgium. The order was made under section 13 of the Food Safety Act 1990 because of the imminent risk to health posed by not banning commercial operations which could result in consumption of food from Belgium contaminated by dioxins.

Yr wyf yn siwr y byddwch am wybod imi gytuno ar 15 Gorffennaf, y dylai’r Gweinidog Amaeth, Pysgodfeydd a Bwyd wneud Gorchymyn Rheoliad Argyfwng dros Fwyd (Rhif 2) 1991 ar gyfer Cymru a Lloegr. Mae’r gorchymyn hwn yn ymwneud ag anifeiliaid a chynhyrchion anifeiliaid o wlad Belg. Gwnaethpwyd y gorchymyn dan adran 13 Deddf Diogelwch Bwyd 1990 oherwydd y perygl a allai fod i iechyd oni waherddid gwaith masnachol a allai arwain at bobl yn bwyta bwyd o wlad Belg sydd wedi’i halogi gyda diocsinau.

You probably know that dioxin contamination has been detected in poultry, eggs, pigs and cows and their products, including cows milk and dairy products from farms in Belgium. A Commission decision and consequent emergency order prohibiting the import of these products from Belgium that extended to England and Wales, was already in place. This order came into force on 30 June. However, it required amending following a further Commission decision made on 9 July to ban commercial operations.

Mae’n siwr y gwyddoch fod diocsinau sy’n halogi wedi’u canfod mewn dofednod, wyau, moch a gwartheg a’u cynhyrchion, gan gynnwys llaeth gwartheg a chynnyrch llaeth o ffermydd yng ngwlad Belg. Yr oedd penderfyniad gan y Comisiwn ac o ganlyniad i hwnnw orchymyn argyfwng yn gwahardd mewnforio’r cynhyrchion hyn o wlad Belg a oedd yn ymestyn i Gymru a Lloegr, eisoes wedi’i wneud. Daeth y gorchymyn hwn i rym ar 30 Mehefin. Fodd bynnag, yr oedd angen ei ddiwygio yn dilyn penderfyniad arall gan y Comisiwn ar 9 Gorffennaf i wahardd gweithgareddau masnachol.

I was informed by officials that the Minister of Agriculture, Fisheries and Food intended to make the order as soon as possible following this decision and was asked whether, as previously, this order should also extend to Wales. The Assembly has the relevant powers to make separate orders under Sections 6(4), 13(1) and 48(1) of the Food Safety Act. Alternatively, the Government of Wales Act allows the relevant Ministers of the Crown to implement any European Community obligation in respect of Wales. There were no specific Welsh issues or implications, and a separate Welsh Order would need to have been exactly the same text changed only to make reference to Wales alone. I considered that there could be a risk to the health of Welsh consumers, as well as possible criticism, should there be a delay in implementing a public health protection measure such as this. In addition, enforcement bodies would be disadvantaged by not being in a position to work to regulations that reflected the up-to-date situation. On this occasion, I agree to an England and Wales Order. I hope this explanation is helpful and adequate.

Cefais wybod gan swyddogion fod y Gweinidog Amaeth, Pysgodfeydd a Bwyd yn bwriadu gwneud y gorchymyn cyn gynted ag y gallai yn dilyn y penderfyniad hwn, a gofynnwyd iddo a ddylid ymestyn y gorchymyn hwn i gynnwys Cymru, fel yr oedd y gorchymyn blaenorol. Mae gan y Cynulliad y pwerau perthnasol i wneud gorchmynion ar wahân dan Adrannau 6(4), 13(1) a 48(1) y Ddeddf Diogelwch Bwyd. Fel arall, mae Deddf Llywodraeth Cymru’n caniatáu i Weinidogion perthnasol y Goron weithredu unrhyw ofynion gan Gymuned Ewrop gyda golwg ar Gymru. Nid oedd dim materion neu oblygiadau a oedd yn benodol i Gymru yma, a byddai Gorchymyn ar wahân i Gymru’n gorfod cynnwys yr un testun yn union heblaw am newidiadau i gyfeirio at Gymru’n unig. Fy marn i oedd y gallai fod perygl i iechyd pobl Cymru, a beirniadaeth efallai, petaem yn oedi wrth weithredu mesur i warchod iechyd y cyhoedd fel hyn. Hefyd, byddai cyrff gorfodi dan anfantais oni allent weithio ar sail rheoliadau a oedd yn adlewyrchu’r sefyllfa ddiweddaraf. Y tro hwn, cytunaf i Orchymyn Cymru a Lloegr. Gobeithiaf fod yn esboniad o gymorth ac yn ddigonol.

David Lloyd siaradwyd yn Gymraeg t. 28

David Lloyd spoken in Welsh p. 28

Diolch i Jane Hutt am y datganiad. Y dyddiau hyn yr ydym yn aml yn trafod bwyd a’r Asiantaeth Safonau Bwyd yn y Pwyllgor Iechyd a Gwasanaethau Cymdeithasol, fel y gwnaethom y bore yma. Serch hynny, mae iechyd cyhoeddus yn fater difrifol iawn, yn enwedig pan ydym yn ymdrin â gwenwyn fel y deuocsinau hyn. Tra’n croesawu’r datganiad hwn ynghyd â’r cyflymdra o ran ei weithredu, a oes modd i Jane Hutt ein sicrhau mai mewn argyfwng yn unig y gweithredir mesurau fel hyn ar raddfa Lloegr a Chymru yn hytrach nag ar raddfa Cymru yn unig, pan fo gennym bwerau i ddeddfu ein hunain?

Thank you Jane Hutt for that statement. These days we are always discussing food and the Food Standards Agency in the Health and Social Services Committee, as we did this morning. However, public health is a serious matter, particularly when we deal with poisons such as these dioxins. While I welcome the statement and the speed of its implementation, can Jane Hutt assure us that these measures will be implemented only in an emergency on an England and Wales basis rather than a Wales only basis, when we have the powers to legislate ourselves?

Jane Hutt spoken in English p. 29

Jane Hutt siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 29

I entirely agree with that, and it is why I wanted to bring the matter to your attention. Unfortunately we were acting under a very tight timescale with the Commission making that decision on the 9 July. We have to move quickly in such circumstances to make the Wales Orders. However, we also need to discuss the Welsh perspective in those situations.

Cytunaf yn llwyr â hynny, a dyna paham yr oeddwn am ddod â’r peth i’ch sylw. Yn anffodus, yr oeddem yn gweithio dan amserlen dynn iawn gyda’r Comisiwn yn gwneud y penderfyniad hwnnw ar 9 Gorffennaf. Rhaid inni symud yn gyflym dan amgylchiadau o’r fath er mwyn gwneud Gorchmynion i Gymru. fodd bynnag, mae hefyd angen inni drafod pethau o safbwynt Cymru mewn sefyllfaoedd o’r fath.

David Melding spoken in English p. 29

David Melding siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 29

The Conservative group welcomes this statement. We think it is pragmatic and proper that public health is regarded as the highest priority. Sometimes, that requires an England and Wales Order. In this case, we believe that you acted quite properly.

Mae’r grwp Ceidwadol yn croesawu’r datganiad hwn. Credwn ei fod yn ddoeth ac yn iawn i iechyd y cyhoedd gael ei ystyriaeth yn brif flaenoriaeth. Weithiau, bydd hynny’n gofyn am Orchymyn Cymru a Lloegr. Yn yr achos hwn, credwn ichi weithredu’n hollol gywir.

Michael German spoken in English p. 29

Michael German siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 29

We will debate the issue of the legislation and the way it proceeds later. This is yet another example of the way in which our Standing Orders are somewhat deficient. There is an urgent need to recognise the way in which matters are brought before us. In future, there will be an urgency procedure whereby Assembly Secretaries can reasonably say that there is no time—or give any other acceptable reason—and therefore they must make an Order directly.

Byddwn yn dadlau ynghylch mater y ddeddfwriaeth a’r ffordd y mae’n mynd rhagddi yn ddiweddarach. Dyma enghraifft arall eto o’r ffordd y mae ein Rheolau Sefydlog ychydig yn ddiffygiol. Mae angen sylweddoli ar frys y ffordd y mae materion yn dod ger ein bron. Yn y dyfodol, bydd trefn frys lle gall Ysgrifenyddion y Cynulliad ddweud yn rhesymol nad oes dim amser —neu roi rheswm derbyniol arall—ac felly rhaid iddynt wneud Gorchymyn yn syth.

However, there is a safeguard for this Assembly which is written into the legislation: it is included in the Government of Wales Act as well as Standing Orders. It provides that, to give the Assembly its right to look at legislation, it may be appropriate for any Member of the Assembly to seek to revoke legislation and bring it back before the Plenary session within 40 working days of the date on which the Order is made.

Fodd bynnag, mae gwarchodaeth i’r Cynulliad hwn sydd wedi’i ysgrifennu’n rhan o’r ddeddfwriaeth: fe’i cynhwysir yn Neddf Llywodraeth Cymru ac yn y Rheolau Sefydlog. Mae’n dweud, er mwyn rhoi’r hawl i’r Cynulliad i edrych ar ddeddfwriaeth, y gall fod yn briodol i unrhyw Aelod o’r Cynulliad geisio diddymu deddfwriaeth a dod â hi gerbron y Sesiwn Llawn cyn pen 40 niwrnod i ddyddiad gwneud y Gorchymyn.

That seems an appropriate safeguard and I will also refer to it later. No one denies that the Order we are discussing is reasonable, therefore my remarks are addressed to the Presiding Officer. We need to look at the Standing Orders urgently to avoid the accusation that this Assembly has not really got control over its legislation. I welcome the statement and I appreciate the reason for its urgency and I am sure the rest of this Assembly agrees with me. However, I ask you, the Presiding Officer, to reconsider our procedures and the need for an appropriate amendment to Standing Orders. This matter should be dealt with rapidly.

Ymddengys fod hyn yn warchodaeth briodol a chyfeiriaf ato hefyd yn nes ymlaen. Nid oes neb yn gwadu bod y Gorchymyn yr ydym yn ei drafod yn rhesymol, felly cyfeiriaf fy sylwadau at y Llywydd. Mae angen inni edrych ar y Rheolau Sefydlog ar frys er mwyn osgoi’r cyhuddiad nad oes gan y Cynulliad hwn wir reolaeth dros ei ddeddfwriaeth. Croesawaf y datganiad a gwerthfawrogaf y rheswm dros y brys ac yr wyf yn siwr bod gweddill y Cynulliad hwn yn cytuno â mi. Fodd bynnag, gofynnaf i chi, y Llywydd, i ailystyried ein trefniadau a bod angen diwygio’n briodol y Rheolau Sefydlog. Dylid ymdrin â hyn yn ddi-oed.

Jane Hutt spoken in English p. 30

Jane Hutt siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 30

In conclusion, in this case, the public health issue is crucial. In our discussion about how we handle Orders of this kind, we must accept that public health comes first and that we may have to make decisions appropriate to that. However, the matter obviously raises questions about how we handle other Orders in future.

I gloi, yn y cyswllt hwn, mae mater iechyd y cyhoedd yn holl bwysig. Yn ein trafodaeth ynghylch sut yr ymdriniwn â Gorchmynion o’r math hwn, rhaid inni dderbyn bod iechyd cyhoedd yn dod gyntaf a bod rhaid inni efallai wneud penderfyniadau sy’n briodol ar gyfer hynny. Fodd bynnag, mae’r mater yn amlwg yn codi cwestiynau ynghylch sut mae ymdrin â Gorchmynion eraill yn y dyfodol.

Dafydd Elis-Thomas The Presiding Officer spoken in English p. 30

Dafydd Elis-Thomas Y Llywydd siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 30

Mike German kindly addressed a question to me. My answer rests on the guidance on revision and suspension of Standing Orders, to which I clearly do not need to refer Mike as the Chairman of our Legislation Committee. However, he will be aware that only members of the Business Committee may table a motion for the revision of Standing Orders. I am sure that this is a matter which the Business Committee is pursuing or is about to pursue.

Cyfeiriodd Mike German gwestiwn ataf i. Seiliaf fy ateb ar y canllawiau ynghylch diwygio a gohirio’r Rheolau Sefydlog, ac mae’n amlwg nad oes angen imi gyfeirio Mike at y rheini fel Cadeirydd ein Pwyllgor Deddfwriaeth. Fodd bynnag, fe wyr mai dim ond aelodau’r Pwyllgor Busnes a gaiff gyflwyno cynnig i ddiwygio’r Rheolau Sefydlog. Yr wyf yn siwr fod hyn yn fater y mae’r Pwyllgor Busnes yn mynd i’r afael ag ef neu ar fin gwneud.

Gwelliannau i Reolau Sefydlog

Amendments to Standing Orders

Dafydd Elis-Thomas The Presiding Officer spoken in English p. 30

Dafydd Elis-Thomas Y Llywydd siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 30

In accordance with the guidance on revision and suspension of Standing Orders, I shall allow only 20 minutes for this debate. I do not wish to encourage the Assembly to spend a long time in Plenary discussing its own procedures.

Yn unol â’r canllawiau ar ddiwygio a gohirio’r Rheolau Sefydlog, dim ond 20 munud yr wyf am ei ganiatáu ar gyfer y ddadl hon. Nid wyf am annog y Cynulliad i dreulio cyfnod hir yn y Sesiwn Llawn yn trafod ei drefniadau ei hun.

Andrew Davies spoken in English p. 30

Andrew Davies siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 30

I propose:

Cynigiaf:

Andrew Davies (continued) spoken in English p. 31

Andrew Davies (parhad) siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 31

in standing order 6.36

yn rheol sefydlog 6.36 dylid hepgor

(1) ‘or table the motion’,

(1) ‘neu’n cyflwyno’r cynnig’,

(2) ‘, and no amendment to that motion may be tabled’, shall be omitted.

(2)’, ac ni cheir cyflwyno gwelliant i’r cynnig hwnnw’,

(Relevant document: the Business Committee in accordance with standing order 26.1 has submitted a report to the Assembly concerning proposed revisions to standing order 6.35 and 6.36, that report having been laid in the Table Office on 15 July 1999).

(Dogfen berthnasol: mae’r Pwyllgor Busnes yn unol â rheol sefydlog 26.1 wedi cyflwyno adroddiad i’r Cynulliad ynghylch gwelliannau arfaethedig i’r rheol sefydlog 6.35 a 6.36 (yr adroddiad a osodwyd yn y Swyddfa Gyflwyno ar 15 Gorffennaf 1999).

Andrew Davies spoken in English p. 31

Andrew Davies siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 31

When drawing up their recommendations on our Standing Orders, the National Assembly Advisory Group, which was a precursor to the Standing Orders Commission, recommended that changes to Standing Orders should be given careful consideration before they are proposed. In addition, individual Assembly Members should have the opportunity to propose changes, as Mike German has just said. The Business Committee has discussed this proposal, which is on your Chamberweb under supporting papers. In line with Standing Order 26.1, it has submitted a report with its recommendations to the Assembly. It was laid in the Table Office on 15 July.

Wrth lunio’u hargymhellion ar ein Rheolau Sefydlog, argymhellodd Grwp Ymgynghorol y Cynulliad Cenedlaethol, sef rhagflaenydd i’r Comisiwn Gorchmynion Sefydlog, y dylid rhoi ystyriaeth ofalus i newid Rheolau Sefydlog cyn eu cynnig. Hefyd, dylai fod gan Aelodau unigol y Cynulliad y cyfle i gynnig newidiadau, fel y mae Mike German newydd ddweud. Mae’r Pwyllgor Busnes wedi trafod y cynnig hwn, sydd ar We’r Siambr dan bapurau cefnogi. Yn unol â Rheol Sefydlog 26.1, mae wedi cyflwyno adroddiad gyda’i argymhellion i’r Cynulliad. Cyflwynwyd ef i’r Swyddfa Gyflwyno ar 15 Gorffennaf.

The Business Committee report recommended that the Assembly debate this issue. I, as Business Secretary, am proposing the amendment to Standing Orders Nos 6.35 and 6.36 because the short debate is being used in a way that was never intended by the National Assembly Advisory Group. The intention was that it should follow the form of the Adjournment debate in the House of Commons. It is an opportunity for individual Members to raise topics they consider important and to get a reply from a Government Minister. That is why Standing Orders include what might otherwise be regarded as restrictive rules about interventions in such debates.

Argymhellodd adroddiad y Pwyllgor Busnes y dylai’r Cynulliad gynnal dadl ar y mater hwn. Yr wyf i, fel yr Ysgrifennydd Busnes, yn cynnig y gwelliant i Reolau Sefydlog Rhif 6.35 a 6.36 oherwydd bod y ddadl fer yn cael ei defnyddio mewn ffordd nas bwriedid byth gan Grwp Ymgynghorol y Cynulliad Cenedlaethol. Y bwriad oedd y dylai ddilyn ffurf y ddadl Ohiriedig yn Nhy’r Cyffredin. Cyfle i Aelodau unigol godi pynciau y maent yn eu hystyried yn bwysig yw hyn a chael ateb gan un o Weinidogion y Llywodraeth. Dyna pam fod y Rheolau Sefydlog yn cynnwys rheolau y gellid fel arall eu hystyried yn gaeth ynghylch ymyrryd mewn dadleuon o’r fath.

The assumption is that short debates would normally involve the Member proposing the motion and a reply from the relevant Assembly Secretary. In practice, Members have been using the short debate as an opportunity to raise issues of wider significance such as the beef on the bone ban and GM crops. A substantial number of Assembly Members believe that a half-hour slot is insufficient to debate such vital matters and then ask Members to vote on the issue. For example, the first short debate motion was that tabled by Kirsty Williams on lifting the beef on the bone ban. Had that short debate gone ahead, the Assembly could have come to a completely different view rather than letting the Agriculture and Rural Development Committee give careful consideration to a highly complex and contentious issue. This must be the right and responsible way for us to do business and make considered decisions.

Tybir y byddai dadleuon byr fel arfer yn cynnwys yr Aelod sy’n cynnig y cynnig ac ateb gan yr Ysgrifennydd Cynulliad Perthnasol. Yr hyn sydd wedi digwydd yw bod Aelodau wedi bod yn defnyddio’r ddadl fer fel ffordd o godi materion o bwys ehangach megis gwahardd cig eidion ar yr asgwrn a chnydau GM. Mae nifer fawr o Aelodau’r Cynulliad o’r farn nad yw bwlch hanner awr yn ddigon i drafod materion mor bwysig â hyn ac yna gofyn i Aelodau bleidleisio ar y mater. Er enghraifft, cyflwynwyd cynnig y ddadl fer gyntaf gan Kirsty Williams ar godi’r gwaharddiad ar gig ar yr asgwrn. Pe bai’r ddadl fer honno wedi mynd yn ei blaen, gallai’r Cynulliad fod wedi dod i benderfyniad hollol wahanol yn hytrach na gadael i’r Pwyllgor Amaethyddiaeth a Datblygu Gwledig ystyried pwnc hynod o gymhleth a llosg. Yn sicr, dyma’r ffordd iawn a chyfrifol inni gynnal ein busnes a gwneud penderfyniadau ystyrlon.

Another example was the motion calling on the Assembly to support the abolition of charges for eye tests. The Assembly was being asked to make a fairly major spending commitment without knowing the cost implications.

Enghraifft arall oedd y cynnig yn galw ar y Cynulliad i gefnogi dileu’r taliadau am brofion llygaid. Roedd y cynnig yn gofyn i’r Cynulliad wneud ymrwymiad gwario eithaf sylweddol heb wybod y goblygiadau o ran costau.

Peter Black spoken in English p. 32

Peter Black siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 32

Does the Business Secretary accept that if the short debate on the banning of beef on the bone had not been tabled we would not have had such early consideration of that topic?

A yw’r Trefnydd yn derbyn oni bai fod y ddadl fer ar wahardd cig eidion ar yr asgwrn wedi cael ei chyflwyno na fyddem wedi ystyried y pwnc mor fuan?

Andrew Davies spoken in English p. 32

Andrew Davies siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 32

Not at all. Ieuan Wyn Jones had presented the motion to me some time before the short debate was tabled. He had asked for it to be tabled at the earliest possible opportunity, and I did that in discussion with Ieuan. [Interruption.] The Leader of the Conservatives may call it a stitch-up, but you will see in the Record that I said that I would table it at the earliest possible opportunity. I did so, and that is why the debate took place when it did.

Dim o gwbl. Yr oedd Ieuan Wyn Jones wedi cyflwyno’r cynnig imi beth amser cyn cyflwyno’r ddadl fer. Yr oedd wedi gofyn iddo gael ei gyflwyno cyn gynted byth ag yr oedd modd, a gwneuthum hynny wedi trafod gyda Ieuan. [Torri ar draws.] Efallai fod Arweinydd y Ceidwadwyr yn meddwl bod y cyfan wedi’i drefnu y tu ôl i’r llenni, ond fe welwch yn y Cofnod imi ddweud y byddwn yn ei gyflwyno cyn gynted byth ag y byddai modd. Gwneuthum hynny, a dyna paham y cynhaliwyd y ddadl pan wnaethpwyd.

While there are matters that should be debated by the Assembly, it should be done appropriately, so that we can make decisions in a considered and meaningful way. I therefore strongly recommend that you endorse this motion and allow the short debate to be used in the way intended by the National Assembly Advisory Group.

Er bod rhai materion y dylai’r Cynulliad eu trafod, dylid gwneud hynny’n briodol, fel y gallwn wneud penderfyniad ar ôl ystyried ac mewn ffordd ystyrlon. Felly, argymhellaf yn gryf eich bod yn cefnogi’r cynnig hwn ac yn caniatáu i’r ddadl fer gael ei defnyddio yn y ffordd a fwriadwyd gan Grwp Ymgynghorol y Cynulliad Cenedlaethol.

Nick Bourne a gododd—

Nick Bourne rose—

Dafydd Elis-Thomas The Presiding Officer spoken in English p. 33

Dafydd Elis-Thomas Y Llywydd siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 33

Order. I am afraid that you will have to intervene during another speech.

Trefn. Mae arnaf ofn y bydd rhaid i chi dorri ar draws yn ystod araith arall.

Ieuan Wyn Jones siaradwyd yn Gymraeg t. 33

Ieuan Wyn Jones spoken in Welsh p. 33

Gennyf fi y codwyd y mater hwn yn gyntaf oherwydd fy mod yn pryderu fod y Cynulliad yn gorfod dod i benderfyniad ar faterion polisi go fawr yn dilyn dadl fer o hanner awr. Yn y ddadl honno dim ond un Aelod sydd â’r hawl i gyfrannu ac yna un Aelod o’r Llywodraeth i ymateb, yn ôl ein Rheolau Sefydlog. Mae rhai o’r dadleuon yr ydym eisoes wedi eu clywed yn cadarnhau fy marn mai nid trwy ddadl fer y dylid dod i benderfyniad ar faterion o bolisi ac ar faterion lle trafodir gwario swm eithaf sylweddol o arian. Nid wyf yn dweud na ddylid trafod materion o’r fath, ond nid o fewn cwmpas dadl fer y dylid cael y drafodaeth honno.

It was I who raised this issue in the first place as I am concerned that the Assembly is having to come to decisions on major policy issues following a short half-hour debate. Our Standing Orders allow the right for only one Member to contribute to that debate and for one Member of the Government to respond. Some of the debates that we have already heard confirm my view that it is not by means of a short debate that we should come to a decision on policy issues and on matters where we are discussing spending quite substantial sums of money. That is not to say that we should not be discussing those issues, but that discussion should not take place in a short debate.

Heb ailadrodd geiriau Andrew Davies, hoffwn dynnu sylw at y ffaith mai gan un Aelod o un blaid yn unig y mae’r hawl i gyfrannu yn y dadleuon byr hyn. Fe all y person hwnnw fod yn Aelod o’r un blaid â’r Llywodraeth. Gallem fod yn dod i benderfyniad a dim ond un blaid wedi cael hawl i gyfrannu.

Without repeating Andrew Davies’ words, I would like to draw attention to the fact that these short debates give only one Member from one party the right to contribute. That person could be a Member of the same party as the Government. We could be coming to a decision where only one party has had the right to contribute.

Nid yw’r ffaith fod Aelodau eraill yn cael ymyrryd yn y ddadl yn tanseilio’r hyn yr wyf yn ei ddweud. Ffars llwyr yw caniatáu i Aelod wneud cyfraniad o 30 eiliad neu o funud mewn trafodaeth a allai beri i’r Cynulliad wneud penderfyniad i wario miliynau o bunnoedd. Mae gan y pleidiau gyfle o fewn eu dadleuon eu hunain i gyflwyno cynigion, ac fe all y Llywodraeth neu’r pleidiau eraill ychwanegu gwelliant i’r cynigion hynny. Mae cyfle hefyd i bob Aelod gyflwyno dadleuon.

The fact that other Members are allowed to intervene in the debate does not undermine what I am saying. It is a total farce to allow a Member to make a contribution of 30 seconds or a minute in a discussion which could lead to the Assembly taking a decision to spend millions of pounds. The parties have an opportunity within their own debates to propose motions, and either the Government or the other parties can propose amendments to those motions. Every Member also has the opportunity to present their arguments.

Mae camddealltwriaeth ynglyn â’m hawgrym yn y Siambr rai wythnosau yn ôl pan godais y mater gyntaf. Y gred yw fy mod eisiau rhwystro trafodaethau ar bynciau llosg, ac mai dim ond materion lleol y dylid eu codi mewn dadleuon byr. Nid dyna a ddywedais. Yr hyn a ddywedais oedd fod gan berson hawl i godi unrhyw bwnc, boed yn bwnc cyffredinol, llosg, lleol, cenedlaethol, neu hyd yn oed yn bwnc rhyngwladol. Gobeithiaf y bydd cyfle i bobl godi pynciau rhyngwladol megis tlodi yn y Trydydd Byd ac yn y blaen. Credaf fod hynny oll yn bwysig.

There is a misunderstanding about a suggestion that I made in the Chamber some weeks ago when I initially raised this matter. The belief is that I was trying to prevent discussion of controversial issues, and that only local issues should be raised in a short debate. That is not what I said. I said that a person has the right to raise any issue whether it is a general, controversial, local, national or even an international issue. I hope there will be an opportunity for people to raise international issues such as poverty in the Third World and so forth. I think all that is very important.

Mae’r defnydd hwn o amser y Cynulliad yn amhriodol. Dim ond pan fo gennym gyfle mewn dadl o leiaf awr o hyd y dylem fod yn dod i benderfyniad ar bynciau polisi. O siarad o brofiad, un o fanteision y ddadl hon i Aelod nad yw’n aelod o’r Llywodraeth nac o’r Cabinet yw ei fod yn cael ateb ar bwnc penodol gan Weinidog sy’n llawer mwy cynhwysfawr nag y byddai’n ei gael mewn sesiwn cwestiwn ac ateb. Gofynnaf felly i’r Cynulliad gefnogi’r gwelliant.

This use of the Assembly’s time is inappropriate. It is only when we have an opportunity within a debate of at least an hour that we should come to decisions on policy issues. Speaking from experience, one of the advantages of this debate for a Member who is not a member of the Government or the Cabinet is that they receive a response from a Minister on a specific subject which is much more comprehensive than they would get at a question and answer session. I ask this Assembly therefore to support this amendment.

David Davies spoken in English p. 34

David Davies siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 34

A number of Standing Orders are under review. I and the rest of the Conservative group would happily support most of the changes that are being suggested. That is why it is so disappointing that this afternoon we are being asked to debate the one change to these Standing Orders that would disadvantage Members who wish to bring items forward for discussion. Our short debates have so far been lively and constructive. One of the main reasons for this has been because these debates have usually been followed by a vote. I give way to my friend Nick Bourne.

Mae nifer o Reolau Sefydlog yn cael eu hadolygu. Byddwn i a gweddill y grwp Ceidwadol yn hapus i gefnogi’r rhan fwyaf o’r newidiadau a awgrymir. Dyna paham ei bod hi mor siomedig bod gofyn inni drafod un newid i’r Rheolau Sefydlog y prynhawn yma a fyddai’n rhoi’r Aelodau hynny sy’n dymuno cyflwyno materion i’w trafod dan anfantais. Cyn belled, mae ein dadleuon byr wedi bod yn fywiog ac yn adeiladol. Un o’r prif resymau dros hyn yw bod y dadleuon hyn fel arfer wedi cael eu dilyn gan bleidlais. Ildiaf i fy nghyfaill Nick Bourne.

Nick Bourne spoken in English p. 34

Nick Bourne siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 34

I want to return to a point raised by the Business Secretary, which I have had the advantage of discussing with Kirsty. Our recollection of the National Assembly Advisory Group discussion was that short debates were not to be limited to localised topics. That was a possibility, but the advantage of this process is that it allows Members to raise an issue of concern to them, which may often be localised. Representatives of all four parties have aired generalised issues because they concern them. To take up Ieuan’s point, it is insufficient to say that there is an opportunity to do this through the party. These are matters that concern individual Members. It is a right given to backbenchers, not the party machines. This is my main concern with what is being suggested. I identify to some extent with what Ieuan said about the inability of other Members to contribute where there is a contrary view. That was certainly exhibited yesterday, and also on previous occasions. But it should be left to individual Members to raise what they consider important. It may well be a localised issue but I do not see why it should have to be. Echoing what David has said, some of the liveliest debates we have had have been in this slot. For the good of the Assembly, it would be a great pity if we interfere with that at this stage.

Yr wyf am ddychwelyd at bwynt a godwyd gan y Trefnydd, y cefais y fantais o’i drafod gyda Kirsty. Ein cof ni am drafodaeth Grwp Ymgynghorol y Cynulliad Cenedlaethol, oedd nad oedd y dadleuon byr i’w cyfyngu i bynciau lleol. Yr oedd hynny’n bosibilrwydd, ond mantais y broses hon yw ei bod yn caniatáu i Aelodau godi mater sy’n destun pryder iddynt hwy, a all yn aml iawn fod yn fater lleol. Mae cynrychiolwyr pob un o’r pedair plaid wedi codi materion cyffredinol am eu bod yn destun pryder iddynt hwy. I ateb pwynt Ieuan, nid yw’n ddigon dweud bod cyfle i wneud hyn drwy’r blaid. Mae’r rhain yn faterion sy’n destun pryder i Aelodau unigol. Mae’n hawl a roddir i feincwyr cefn, nid i beiriannau’r pleidiau. Dyma fy mhrif bryder i ynghylch yr hyn sy’n cael ei awgrymu. Yr wyf yn cydymdeimlo i ryw raddau â’r hyn a ddywedodd Ieuan am anallu Aelodau eraill sy’n gwrthwynebu i gyfrannu. Gwelwyd hynny’n amlwg ddoe, a hefyd ar achlysuron blaenorol. Ond dylid ei gadael hi i Aelodau unigol godi’r hyn y maent yn ei ystyried yn bwysig. Efallai ei fod yn fater lleol ond ni welaf pam fod rhaid iddo fod. I adleisio geiriau David, mae rhai o’r dadleuon mwyaf bywiog a gawsom wedi’u cynnal yn y slot hwn. Er lles y Cynulliad, byddai’n drueni mawr petaem yn tarfu ar hynny ar hyn o bryd.

David Davies spoken in English p. 35

David Davies siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 35

Ieuan Wyn Jones has said that short debates are perhaps not the place to discuss plans that could lead to high spending. He surely misses the point. We all know that the Government is under no obligation to act on the views of the Members after short debates. The point is that they can show what the views of most Members are, and that puts the Government of Wales under pressure to table a motion for a full debate on an issue if it is shown that Members feel deeply about it.

Dywedodd Ieuan Wyn Jones nad dadleuon byr yw’r lle, efallai, i drafod cynlluniau a allai arwain at wario mawr. Mae’n amlwg ei fod wedi methu’r pwynt. Gwyddom i gyd nad yw’r Llywodraeth dan unrhyw ymrwymiad i weithredu ar farn Aelodau ar ôl dadleuon byr. Y pwynt yw eu bod yn gallu dangos beth yw barn y rhan fwyaf o’r Aelodau, ac mae hynny’n rhoi pwysau ar Lywodraeth Cymru i gyflwyno cynnig ar gyfer dadl lawn ar fater os dangosir bod yr Aelodau’n teimlo’n gryf amdano.

Jocelyn Davies spoken in English p. 35

Jocelyn Davies siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 35

Perhaps you have slightly missed the point that Ieuan was making. Yesterday’s debate is a prime example. Had that come to a vote, it would have become Assembly policy to consider hunting with dogs as uncivilised without your party being allowed to make any contribution.

Efallai eich bod chi wedi methu’r pwynt yr oedd Ieuan yn ei wneud. Mae dadl ddoe yn enghraifft wych. Petaem wedi pleidleisio ddoe, polisi’r Cynulliad fyddai ystyried hela gyda chwn yn beth anwaraidd heb i’ch plaid chi gael cyfle i wneud unrhyw gyfraniad.

David Davies spoken in English p. 36

David Davies siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 36

I am afraid that you are missing the point. A short debate can give no mandate. We could have taken a stance and shown Members’ views on fox hunting and I hope that they would have voted in support of field sports. But Assembly policy would not have been decided in yesterday’s short debate. We would have to hold a full debate to do that.

Mae arnaf ofn mai chi sy’n methu’r pwynt. Ni all dadl fer roi mandad. Gallem fod wedi dangos ein hochr a dangos barn Aelodau ar hela llwynogod a gobeithiaf y byddent wedi pleidleisio o blaid chwaraeon maes. Ond ni fyddai polisi’r Cynulliad wedi cael ei benderfynu yn y ddadl fer ddoe. Byddem yn gorfod cynnal dadl lawn i wneud hynny.

Lorraine Barrett spoken in English p. 36

Lorraine Barrett siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 36

I wish to contradict something you said earlier; some of the liveliest short debates have been those without a vote. The subject chosen for my 15 minutes of fame yesterday had no vote but generated a great deal of interest throughout Wales and a buzz in this building. You do not need a vote for a lively short debate.

Anghytunaf â rhywbeth a ddywedasoch yn gynharach; rhai o’r dadleuon byr mwyaf bywiog oedd y rheini lle na chafwyd pleidlais. Nid oedd pleidlais ar y pwnc a ddewiswyd ar gyfer fy 15 munud i o enwogrwydd ddoe ond cynhyrchodd lawer o ddiddordeb yng Nghymru a chyffro yn yr adeilad hwn. Nid oes angen pleidlais i gael dadl fer fywiog.

David Davies spoken in English p. 36

David Davies siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 36

In the interest of consensus politics Lorraine, yours was an interesting and lively debate. If short debates are no longer voted upon I believe that Members will eventually stop attending. One incentive to stay and listen to a short debate at the end of a Tuesday Plenary is that even though not everyone in the Chamber can intervene, they can participate by exercising their vote.

Er budd gwleidyddiaeth consensws Lorraine, yr oedd eich dadl chi’n ddiddorol ac yn fywiog. Oni chawn ni bleidlais ar ddadleuon byr yn y dyfodol, credaf y bydd yr Aelodau yn y pen draw yn peidio â dod iddynt. Un cymhelliant i aros a gwrando ar ddadl fer ar ddiwedd Sesiwn Llawn dydd Mawrth yw bod pawb yn y Siambr, er na allant ymyrryd, yn gallu cyfrannu drwy bleidleisio.

Richard Edwards spoken in English p. 36

Richard Edwards siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 36

If you would hurry up, backbenchers could have a say in this debate. When I say backbenchers, I exclude all party spokespersons. I realise that disadvantages the Tories and the Liberals, but tough.

Petaech chi’n brysio ychydig, gallai meincwyr cefn gael llais yn y ddadl hon. Pan ddywedaf feincwyr cefn, yr wyf yn eithrio llefaryddion pob plaid. Sylweddolaf fod hyn yn rhoi’r Torïaid a’r Rhyddfrydwyr dan anfantais, ond dyna ni.

David Davies spoken in English p. 37

David Davies siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 37

If you made your intervention quicker, I would finish my speech quicker. I understand Labour’s support but cannot understand why members of Plaid Cymru are supporting the change in the Standing Orders. Past short debates have not always been favourable to the Labour group. We all know how touchy certain members of that group can be about unfortunate headlines. The defeat suffered with the beef on the bone ban has led them to explore the possibility of a different course of action for Wales to the one followed in Westminster. Is this not why we have an Assembly? This seems to be something that the Labour Party backs away from at every opportunity. If we end voting on short debates we will not be serving the interests of the ordinary Members of this Assembly.

Petaech chi’n ymyrryd yn gynt, byddwn innau’n gorffen fy araith yn gynt. Deallaf gefnogaeth y blaid Lafur ond ni allaf ddeall pam fod aelodau Plaid Cymru’n cefnogi newid y Rheolau Sefydlog. Nid yw dadleuon byr yn y gorffennol bob amser wedi bod yn ffafriol i’r grwp Llafur. Gwyddom i gyd pa mor groendenau y gall rhai aelodau o’r grwp hwnnw fod am benawdau anffodus. Ar ôl iddynt golli gyda’r gwaharddiad ar gig eidion ar yr asgwrn, maent wedi dechrau edrych ar y posibilrwydd o ddilyn trywydd gwahanol yng Nghymru i’r hyn a ddilynir yn San Steffan. Onid dyna paham y mae gennym Gynulliad? Mae’n ymddangos fod y Blaid Lafur yn cefnu ar hyn ar bob cyfle. Os nad ydym yn pleidleisio ar ddadleuon byr, ni fyddwn yn gwasanaethu buddiannau Aelodau cyffredin y Cynulliad hwn.

Alun Cairns spoken in English p. 37

Alun Cairns siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 37

Is this not an example of the Labour Party and Plaid Cymru buddying up together to prevent debate and curb any healthy discussion along with the voices of those who have been called backbenchers in this Chamber?

Onid yw hyn yn enghraifft o’r Blaid Lafur a Phlaid Cymru’n paru i atal dadleuon a rhwystro trafodaeth iach a lleisiau’r sawl sydd wedi cael eu galw’n feincwyr cefn yn y Siambr hon?

David Davies spoken in English p. 37

David Davies siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 37

Yes it is. They are asking us to embark on a course of action that will make it more difficult for us to generate any interest in the topics that we want to discuss. We will be able to show support from the Chamber for the topics that we raise but we will lose a valuable opportunity to make a real contribution to Government policy.

Ydyw. Maent yn gofyn inni gymryd camau a fydd yn ei gwneud hi’n anos inni gynhyrchu unrhyw ddiddordeb yn y pynciau yr ydym am eu trafod. Byddwn yn gallu dangos cefnogaeth y Siambr i bynciau a godwn ond byddwn yn colli cyfle gwerthfawr i wneud cyfraniad gwirioneddol i bolisi’r Llywodraeth.

John Marek spoken in English p. 37

John Marek siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 37

This is a serious issue and unfortunately we are getting into a party dog fight. The critical point is that these short debates were the one instance where Assembly Members could table a motion of their choosing and then vote on it. Andrew Davies will sleep easily in the night if this goes through. The situation was not satisfactory and I will support the motion but everybody must realise that in passing it we are giving powers to the Executive and losing them as the National Assembly for Wales. Could I ask Ieuan Wyn Jones a question?

Mae hyn yn fater difrifol ac yn anffodus, mae’n troi’n frwydr rhwng y pleidiau. Y pwynt holl bwysig oedd mai’r dadleuon byr hyn oedd yr unig enghraifft lle gallai Aelodau’r Cynulliad gyflwyno cynnig o’u dewis a phleidleisio arno. Bydd Andrew Davies yn cysgu’n dawel yn y nos os bydd y cynnig hwn yn llwyddo. Nid oedd y sefyllfa’n foddhaol ac yr wyf yn barod i gefnogi’r cynnig ond rhaid i bawb sylweddoli ein bod wrth ei basio’n rhoi pwerau i’r Corff Gweithredol ac yn eu colli fel Cynulliad Cenedlaethol Cymru. A gaf ofyn cwestiwn i Ieuan Wyn Jones?

Dafydd Elis-Thomas The Presiding Officer spoken in English p. 38

Dafydd Elis-Thomas Y Llywydd siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 38

Order. Ieuan Wyn Jones is not speaking at the moment. You could have asked him earlier. Please bring your remarks to a close.

Trefn. Nid yw Ieuan Wyn Jones yn siarad ar hyn o bryd. Gallech fod wedi gofyn iddo ynghynt. Wnewch chi dynnu eich sylwadau tua’r terfyn os gwelwch yn dda.

John Marek spoken in English p. 38

John Marek siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 38

As business manager for a Government in waiting, what quid pro quo is promised for backbenchers’ rights when we comprehensively revise the Standing Orders after the summer adjournment?

Fel trefnydd y darpar Lywodraeth, pa quid pro quo sy’n cael ei addo ar gyfer hawliau meincwyr cefn pan fyddwn yn adolygu’r Rheolau Sefydlog o’u cwr ar ôl gwyliau’r haf?

Dafydd Elis-Thomas The Presiding Officer spoken in English p. 38

Dafydd Elis-Thomas Y Llywydd siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 38

Order. You do not have to answer that question David.

Trefn. Nid oes raid ichi ateb y cwestiwn hwnnw David.

David Davies spoken in English p. 38

David Davies siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 38

I appreciate Mr Marek’s reference to the fact that we are the Government in waiting. I would dearly like to know why the interests of backbenchers are being put second. I would urge you all to put the interests of individual Members before the interests of the Labour Party machine.

Gwerthfawrogaf gyfeiriad Mr Marek at y ffaith mai ni yw’r darpar Lywodraeth. Byddwn yn falch iawn o gael gwybod pam fod buddiannau meincwyr cefn yn dod yn ail. Byddwn yn eich annog chi i gyd i roi buddiannau Aelodau unigol o flaen buddiannau peiriant y Blaid Lafur.

Jenny Randerson spoken in English p. 38

Jenny Randerson siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 38

I rarely agree with David Davies but I will also speak against the amendment. Andrew and Ieuan have created a storm in a teacup over this issue. I accept that the short debate rules need clarification and amendment but not in this way. This motion will emasculate ordinary backbench Members and this is the one opportunity for backbenchers—by that I mean everyone apart from the Executive—to present ideas and debate in a meaningful way. We should not be restricted to debate on local issues such as schools, hospitals and facilities. If we consider a topic like fox hunting to be important, it should be debated meaningfully.

Anaml y byddaf yn cytuno â David Davies ond siaradaf innau hefyd yn erbyn y gwelliant. Mae Andrew a Ieuan wedi gwneud môr a mynydd o’r mater hwn. Yr wyf yn derbyn bod angen egluro a diwygio rheolau’r ddadl fer, ond nid fel hyn. Bydd y cynnig hwn yn gwanhau Aelodau cyffredin y meinciau cefn a dyma’r un cyfle i feincwyr cefn—a thrwy hynny yr wyf yn golygu pawb ar wahân i’r Corff Gweithredol —gyflwyno syniadau a chynnal dadl mewn ffordd ystyrlon. Ni ddylem gael ein cyfyngu i ddadlau ar faterion lleol megis ysgolion, ysbytai a chyfleusterau Os ystyriwn fod pwnc fel hela llwynogod yn bwysig, dylid cynnal dadl ystyrlon arno.

If we do not have votes, we will all eventually ask, what is the point of being here. This is the first step on the road to creating ourselves in the image of Westminster.

Os nad oes gennym bleidlais, bydd pawb yn y pen draw’n gofyn, beth yw pwynt bod yma. Dyma’r cam cyntaf ar y ffordd o’n creu ni’n hunain ar ddelw San Steffan.

Helen Mary Jones spoken in English p. 39

Helen Mary Jones siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 39

Where does the amendment limit individual Members’ debates to local or restricted issues? As another member of the National Assembly for Wales Advisory Group, I fully recall those debates, which made it clear that Members should be free to raise any issue they wished. Nothing in this amendment prevents that but it does prevent us from voting, as other speakers have indicated. This is pointless because if it does not bind the Assembly to anything, what on earth is the point of voting on it? Could you explain your concern about the amendment? I see no restriction to local issues, but if my business manager has misled me on this, I would like you to put me right.

Ymhle mae’r gwelliant yn cyfyngu dadleuon Aelodau unigol i faterion lleol neu gyfyngedig? Fel aelod arall o Grwp Ymgynghorol Cynulliad Cenedlaethol Cymru, mae gennyf gof da o’r dadleuon hynny, lle gwnaethpwyd hi’n glir y dylai Aelodau fod yn rhydd i godi unrhyw fater yr oeddent yn ei ddymuno. Nid oes dim yn y gwelliant hwn yn gwahardd hynny, ond mae’n ein rhwystro rhag pleidleisio fel y mae siaradwyr eraill wedi dweud. Nid oes pwynt pleidleisio oherwydd os nad yw’n clymu’r Cynulliad i ddim byd, beth ar y ddaear yw’r pwynt o bleidleisio arno? A fedrwch chi egluro’r pryder ynghylch y gwelliant? Ni welaf ddim byd i’n cyfyngu i faterion lleol, ond os yw fy nhrefnydd wedi fy nghamarwain ynghylch hyn, hoffwn ichi fy nghywiro.

Jenny Randerson spoken in English p. 39

Jenny Randerson siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 39

I will answer that point later. I will answer a few things that have been noted. Andrew Davies referred to Kirsty’s motion on beef on the bone. She made it clear that she wished to refer the motion to a Committee but was unable to do so at that time because the Committee had not been set up due to a technical reason. This was in our first week of business and the Table Office would not let her do it.

Atebaf y pwynt hwnnw’n ddiweddarach. Atebaf ychydig o bethau a nodwyd. Cyfeiriodd Andrew Davies at gynnig Kirsty am gig eidion ar yr asgwrn. Fe’i gwnaeth hi’n glir ei bod am gyfeirio’r cynnig i Bwyllgor ond ni allai wneud hynny ar y pryd am nad oedd y Pwyllgor wedi’i sefydlu am reswm technegol. Ein hwythnos gyntaf ni oedd hyn ac nid oedd y Swyddfa Gyflwyno’n fodlon iddi hi wneud hynny.

The difference between a short debate and a minority party debate has also been raised—the difference between half an hour and an hour. That is ludicrous. You cannot debate something meaningfully in an hour any more than half an hour. But you can put your toe in the water.

Codwyd hefyd y gwahaniaeth rhwng dadl fer a dadl plaid leiafrifol—y gwahaniaeth rhwng hanner awr ac awr. Mae hynny’n hurt. Ni allwch ddadlau’n fwy ystyrlon am rywbeth mewn awr nag y gallwch mewn hanner awr. Ond fe allwch chi roi bawd eich troed yn y dwr.

Ieuan Wyn Jones spoken in English p. 39

Ieuan Wyn Jones siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 39

It is not only a longer debate. The essential difference is that all parties can make a contribution—only one party can contribute to a short debate.

Nid dim ond mater o fod y ddadl yn hwy yw hi. Y gwahaniaeth hanfodol yw y gall pob plaid gyfrannu—dim ond un blaid sy’n cael cyfrannu at ddadl fer.

Jenny Randerson spoken in English p. 40

Jenny Randerson siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 40

I will come to that point. I suspect that Plaid Cymru may feel left out. Statistically, you will not be left out in the long term and your Members will have the opportunity for a short debate. I take John Marek’s point and appeal over the heads of party managers to the backbenchers to ask them not to write off their chances of raising issues in a meaningful way. We are told that the short debate was intended to follow the Westminster model. Have you seen an Adjournment debate in Westminster? It is a pathetic sight—a tiny handful of Members listening in a desultory manner to someone speaking in minute detail about very local issues which only mean something to the local people. The short debate is an opportunity for us to show ourselves to be different and to raise important issues, as Lynne Neagle realised when she raised the question about the European Union. [Laughter.] These issues are important and I am glad that they receive Plaid Cymru’s support.

Deuaf at y pwynt hwnnw. Yr wyf yn amau bod Plaid Cymru efallai’n teimlo eu bod wedi cael eu gadael allan. Yn ystadegol, ni chewch eich gadael allan yn y tymor hir a bydd gan eich Aelodau’r cyfle i gyflwyno dadl fer. Derbyniaf bwynt John Marek ac apeliaf dros bennau rheolwyr y pleidiau i’r meincwyr cefn ofyn iddynt beidio â dileu eu cyfle i godi materion mewn ffordd ystyrlon. Dywedir wrthym mai’r bwriad oedd bod y ddadl fer yn dilyn model San Steffan. Ydych chi wedi gweld y ddadl Ohiriedig yn San Steffan? Mae’n olygfa bathetig—llond llaw o Aelodau’n gwrando’n ddi-ffrwt ar rywun yn gwrando’n sôn yn fanwl iawn am faterion hynod o leol nad ydynt ond yn golygu rhywbeth i bobl leol. Mae’r ddadl fer yn gyfle i ni ddangos ein bod yn wahanol a chodi materion o bwys, fel y sylweddolodd Lynne Neagle pan gododd y cwestiwn am Undeb Ewrop. [Chwerthin.] Mae’r materion hyn yn bwysig ac yr wyf yn falch eu bod yn cael cefnogaeth Plaid Cymru.

David Davies spoken in English p. 40

David Davies siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 40

Would you agree that people were encouraged to vote in favour of an Assembly because it was going to be a different model to Westminster, and that there is no point suggesting that we should return to that model when we have a different system of government in Wales?

A fyddech chi’n cytuno bod pobl wedi cael eu hannog i bleidleisio o blaid Cynulliad oherwydd y byddai’n fodel gwahanol i San Steffan, ac nad oes pwynt awgrymu y dylem ddychwelyd at y model hwnnw pan fo gennym drefn lywodraethu wahanol yng Nghymru?

Dafydd Elis-Thomas The Presiding Officer spoken in English p. 40

Dafydd Elis-Thomas Y Llywydd siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 40

Order. The time allocated for this debate is over. I will allow you 20 seconds to finish.

Trefn. Mae’r amser a ganiatawyd ar gyfer y ddadl hon wedi dod i ben. Caniatâf 20 eiliad i chi orffen.

Jenny Randerson spoken in English p. 40

Jenny Randerson siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 40

We need the vote because people will not be here to listen otherwise. I suggest a different amendment that either says that a vote should be indicative only, or that it should only be able to refer things to a Committee and I suggest that you could amend to allow more speakers. We have a general review of Standing Orders in the autumn. This is a storm in a teacup and is being pushed through with indecent haste. As backbenchers, will regret it in months to come if we do not look carefully at the reasons for this.

Mae angen y bleidlais arnom oherwydd fel arall, ni fydd neb yma i wrando. Cynigiaf welliant gwahanol sydd naill ai’n dweud na ddylai pleidlais ond fod yn arwyddol, neu na ddylai ond allu cyfeirio pethau i Bwyllgor ac awgrymaf y gallech chi gynnig gwelliant i ganiatáu rhagor o siaradwyr. Byddwn yn cynnal adolygiad cyffredinol ar y Rheolau Sefydlog yn yr hydref. Yr ydych wedi gwneud môr a mynydd o hyn ac mae’n cael ei ruthro drwodd yn rhy frysiog o lawer. Fel meincwyr cefn, byddwn yn difaru mewn misoedd i ddod os nad edrychwn yn ofalus ar y rhesymau dros hyn.

Dafydd Elis-Thomas The Presiding Officer spoken in English p. 41

Dafydd Elis-Thomas Y Llywydd siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 41

Under the guidance on revision and suspension of Standing Orders, I now call for a confirmatory vote on the motion, which requires a two thirds majority—that is two thirds of those voting including abstentions.

Dan y canllawiau ar gyfer diwygio a gohirio Rheolau Sefydlog, galwaf yn awr am bleidlais gadarnhau ar y cynnig, sy’n gofyn am fwyafrif o ddwy ran o dair—sef dwy ran o dair o’r sawl sy’n pleidleisio gan gynnwys y rhai sy’n ymatal.

Cynnig Andrew Davies t. 42

Motion Andrew Davies p. 42

DerbyniwydAdopted O blaidFor 42 YmatalAbstain 1 Yn erbynAgainst 14

Derbyniwyd y cynnig

Motion adopted.

Sut y pleidleisiodd yr AelodauHow Members voted
O blaidFor (42)
  • Lorraine Barrett
  • Rosemary Butler
  • Christine Chapman
  • Cynog Dafis
  • Andrew Davies
  • Geraint Davies
  • Janet Davies
  • Jocelyn Davies
  • Ron Davies
  • Richard Edwards
  • Sue Essex
  • Val Feld
  • Brian Gibbons
  • Janice Gregory
  • John Griffiths
  • Christine Gwyther
  • Alison Halford
  • Brian Hancock
  • Edwina Hart
  • Jane Hutt
  • Pauline Jarman
  • Ann Jones
  • Carwyn Jones
  • Elin Jones
  • Gareth Jones
  • Helen Mary Jones
  • Ieuan Wyn Jones
  • Peter Law
  • Huw Lewis
  • David Lloyd
  • John Marek
  • Alun Michael
  • Tom Middlehurst
  • Lynne Neagle
  • Alun Pugh
  • Janet Ryder
  • Karen Sinclair
  • Gwenda Thomas
  • Owen John Thomas
  • Rhodri Glyn Thomas
  • Dafydd Wigley
  • Phil Williams
YmatalAbstain (1)
  • Jane Davidson
Yn erbynAgainst (14)
  • Mick Bates
  • Peter Black
  • Nick Bourne
  • Alun Cairns
  • David Davies
  • Michael German
  • William Graham
  • Christine Humphreys
  • David Melding
  • Jonathan Morgan
  • Jenny Randerson
  • Rod Richards
  • Peter Rogers
  • Kirsty Williams

Rheoliadau Addysg

Education Regulations

Andrew Davies spoken in English p. 43

Andrew Davies siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 43

I propose the following motions: No.1:

Cynigiaf y cynigion isod: Rhif 1:

That the Assembly, acting in accordance with standing order 22.33 approves the draft of the Education (School Government) (Wales) Regulations 1999 a copy of which was laid in the Table Office on Friday 16 July 1999.

Bod y Cynulliad, gan weithredu yn unol â rheol sefydlog 22.33, yn cymeradwyo’r drafft o Reoliadau Addysg (Llywodraeth Ysgol) (Cymru) 1999 y mae copi ohono wedi ei osod yn y Swyddfa Gyflwyno ddydd Gwener 16 Gorffennaf 1999.

No.2:

Rhif 2:

That the Assembly acting in accordance with standing order 22.33 approves the draft of the Education (New Schools) (Wales) Regulations 1999 a copy of which was laid in the Table Office on Friday 16 July 1999.

Bod y Cynulliad, yn gweithredu yn unol â rheol sefydlog 22.33, yn cymeradwyo’r drafft o Reoliadau Addysg (Ysgolion Newydd) (Cymru) 1999 y mae copi ohono wedi ei osod yn y Swyddfa Gyflwyno ddydd Gwener 16 Gorffennaf 1999.

The Education (School Government) (Wales) Regulations 1999 and the Education (New Schools) (Wales) Regulations 1999 need to be made jointly with the UK Government and therefore need the approval of Parliament. It is required in accordance with Standing Orders that the Assembly approve them beforehand. It has not been possible to bring them to the Assembly before now, and that is why they are on the agenda for approval today.

Mae angen gwneud Rheoliadau Addysg (Llywodraeth Ysgol) (Cymru) 1999 a Rheoliadau Addysg (Ysgolion Newydd) (Cymru) 1999 ar y cyd â Llywodraeth y DU ac felly rhaid iddynt gael eu cymeradwyo gan y Senedd. Mae’n ofynnol dan y Rheolau Sefydlog bod y Cynulliad yn eu cymeradwyo ymlaen llaw. Ni fu’n bosibl dod â hwy gerbron y Cynulliad cyn hyn, a dyna pam y maent ar yr agenda i’w cymeradwyo heddiw.

Standing Order Nos 22.30 to 22.34 do not require examination by the Legislation Committee before the Assembly approves them. I am conscious, however, of the concerns of Members, and Mike German as chair of the Legislation Committee raised these concerns earlier. However, difficulties are inevitable in a transition period of moving from one legislative process to another. We are keen to ensure that problems such as these are avoided. I have instructed officials that a brief introductory memorandum is added when preparing regulations and statutory instruments to explain the effect of the legislation and the changes that stem from them. The Administration needs to make a number of statutory instruments before the end of the summer recess. All these give effect to primary legislation, mainly the Schools Standards and Framework Act 1998.

Dan Reolau Sefydlog Rhifau 22.30 i 22.34 nid yw’n rhaid i’r Pwyllgor Deddfau eu harchwilio cyn i’r Cynulliad eu cymeradwyo. Yr wyf, fodd bynnag, yn ymwybodol o bryderon yr Aelodau, a chododd Mike German fel cadeirydd y Pwyllgor Deddfau y pryderon hyn yn gynharach. Mae anawsterau’n anochel mewn cyfnod o newid wrth drosglwyddo o un broses ddeddfwriaethol i un arall. Yr ydym yn awyddus i sicrhau bod problemau fel y rhain yn cael eu hosgoi. Yr wyf wedi cyfarwyddo’r swyddogion i ychwanegu memorandwm cyflwyno byr wrth baratoi rheoliadau ac offerynnau statudol i egluro effaith y ddeddfwriaeth a’r newidiadau sy’n deillio ohonynt. Mae gofyn i’r Weinyddiaeth wneud nifer o offerynnau statudol cyn diwedd gwyliau’r haf. Mae’r rhain i gyd yn rhoi grym i ddeddfwriaeth sylfaenol, yn bennaf Deddf Safonau a Fframwaith Ysgolion 1998.

Jocelyn Davies spoken in English p. 44

Jocelyn Davies siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 44

Functions under section 144 of that Act are not actually transferred to the Assembly. I would like to clear up this point. It is nothing to do with 1 July. Those functions are not transferred to the Assembly and if we were making a further amendment to that statutory instrument we would have to go through the same process.

Nid yw swyddogaethau dan adran 144 y Ddeddf honno wedi eu trosglwyddo i’r Cynulliad mewn gwirionedd. Hoffwn glirio’r pwynt hwn. Nid oes a wnelo ag 1 Gorffennaf. Nid yw’r swyddogaethau hyn wedi eu trosglwyddo i’r Cynulliad ac os ydym yn gwneud newidiad pellach i’r offeryn statudol byddai’n rhaid inni fynd drwy’r un broses.

Andrew Davies spoken in English p. 44

Andrew Davies siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 44

Technically you are right. The power is not transferred under the Government of Wales Act 1998 and the Assembly will have to consider this in the longer term. The assumption we made in not including these in the Transfers of Functions Order was that they would not be needed. That is not the case. However, their inclusion would not have meant that we could have brought these regulations to the Assembly before now.

Yn dechnegol yr ydych yn gywir. Ni throsglwyddwyd y grym dan Ddeddf Llywodraeth Cymru 1998 a bydd yn rhaid i’r Cynulliad ystyried hyn yn y tymor hwy. Ni chynhwyswyd y rhain yn y Gorchymyn Trosglwyddo Swyddogaethau am ein bod yn rhagdybio na fyddai eu hangen, ond nid felly y mae. Fodd bynnag, ni fyddem wedi gallu dod â’r rheoliadau hyn gerbron y Cynulliad yn gynt hyd yn oed pe baent wedi eu cynnwys.

This Administration needs to make a number of statutory instruments before the end of the Summer recess and all of these give effect to the primary legislation, mainly the Schools Standards and Framework Act 1998. The mass of subordinate legislation which this Act requires and the sequence of implementing them, means that it has not been possible to bring these orders to the Assembly any earlier. We will be making them under the urgency procedure in accordance with Standing Orders, and as I indicated yesterday, I have tabled a day in the next session to debate this secondary legislation to allay Members’ fears.

Mae angen i’r Weinyddiaeth hon wneud nifer o offerynnau statudol cyn diwedd gwyliau’r Haf ac mae’r rhain i gyd yn rhoi grym i’r ddeddfwriaeth sylfaenol, Deddf Safonau a Fframwaith Ysgolion 1998 yn bennaf. Mae’r pentwr o is-ddeddfwriaeth sy’n ofynnol dan y Ddeddf hon a’r drefn i’w rhoi ar waith yn golygu na fu’n bosibl dod â’r gorchmynion hyn gerbron y Cynulliad ddim cynt. Byddwn yn eu gwneud dan y drefn frys yn unol â’r Rheolau Sefydlog ac, fel y dywedais ddoe, yr wyf wedi cyflwyno diwrnod yn y sesiwn nesaf i drafod y ddeddfwriaeth eilaidd yma er mwyn lliniaru ofnau’r Aelodau.

The motions have been tabled separately and I propose for convenience to take them together. These regulations were laid in English on 16 July. They have not been translated into Welsh, as they still need to be approved by Parliament. In accordance with Standing Order No. 22.31, I will make a Welsh translation available once the regulations have been made.

Mae’r cynigion hyn wedi eu cyflwyno ar wahân ac awgrymaf er hwylustod ein bod yn eu cymryd gyda’i gilydd. Gosodwyd y rheoliadau hyn yn Saesneg ar 16 Gorffennaf. Nid ydynt wedi eu cyfieithu i’r Gymraeg am fod angen cymeradwyaeth Seneddol iddynt eto. Yn unol â Rheol Sefydlog Rhif 22.31, byddaf yn darparu cyfieithiad Cymraeg unwaith y mae’r rheoliadau wedi eu gwneud.

I am sorry that Members have not had more time to consider these regulations, but they are both genuinely urgent and I hope they are non-contentious. From 1 September, the start of the next school year, new categories of community, voluntary and foundation schools come into force under the provisions of the Schools Standards and Framework Act 1998. Virtually all of the subordinate legislation needed to bring the new framework into being on the 1 September is already in place. The main outstanding items are covered by these regulations. Without these, governing bodies of existing schools would not have a legal basis for their proceedings, new schools would have no governing bodies and any action would be ultra vires. I trust that the Assembly will, therefore, agree to them being made urgently.

Mae’n ddrwg gennyf nad yw’r Aelodau wedi cael mwy o amser i ystyried y rheoliadau hyn, ond mae brys gwirioneddol am y naill a’r llall a gobeithiaf nad oes dim yn ddadleuol ynddynt. O 1 Medi, dechrau’r flwyddyn ysgol nesaf, daw categorïau newydd o ysgolion cymuned, gwirfoddol a sylfaen i rym dan Ddeddf Safonau a Fframwaith Ysgolion 1998. Mae mwyafrif llethol yr is-ddeddfwriaeth sy’n ofynnol i roi’r fframwaith newydd ar waith ar 1 Medi eisoes wedi ei sefydlu. Daw’r prif eitemau sy’n weddill o fewn cwmpas y rheoliadau hyn. Heb y rhain, ni fyddai gan gyrff llywodraethol ysgolion presennol sail gyfreithiol i’w gwaith, ni fyddai gan ysgolion newydd gyrff llywodraethol a byddai unrhyw weithredu ultra vires. Hyderaf, felly, y bydd y Cynulliad yn cytuno iddynt gael eu gwneud ar frys.

The need for joint consideration by the Assembly and Parliament arises because both sets of regulations are to be made in part using powers contained in section 144 of the Act. Section 144 is not covered in the Transfer of Functions Order and the regulations therefore have to be made jointly with the Secretary of State for Wales. That is the point Jocelyn made. The regulations, subject to the approval of the Assembly today, will go to the Secretary of State or one of his Ministers for signature and will be laid before Parliament.

Mae angen i’r Cynulliad a’r Senedd eu hystyried gan fod y ddwy set o reoliadau i gael eu gwneud yn rhannol gan ddefnyddio pwerau a geir yn adran 144 y Ddeddf. Nid yw Adran 144 wedi ei chynnwys yn y Gorchymyn Trosglwyddo Swyddogaethau a rhaid felly i’r rheoliadau gael eu gwneud ar y cyd ag Ysgrifennydd Gwladol Cymru. Dyna’r pwynt a wnaed gan Jocelyn. Bydd y rheoliadau, os cymeradwyir hwy gan y Cynulliad heddiw, yn mynd at yr Ysgrifennydd Gwladol neu un o’i Weinidogion i’w llofnodi a’u gosod gerbron y Senedd.

I will describe the content of the regulations as they are quite long. The present Education (School Government) Regulations 1989, as amended, apply to county, voluntary controlled, voluntary aided and maintained special schools in Wales. The Government’s arrangements for grant maintained schools differ slightly and are provided for in the Education (Grant Maintained Schools) (Initial Governing Instruments) Regulations 1993.

Yr wyf am ddisgrifio cynnwys y rheoliadau gan eu bod yn reit hir. Mae’r rheoliadau cyfredol, Rheoliadau Addysg (Llywodraeth Ysgol) 1989, fel y’u newidiwyd, yn berthnasol i ysgolion sirol, rhai dan reolaeth wirfoddol a chymorth gwirfoddol, ac ysgolion arbennig a gynhelir yng Nghymru. Mae trefniadau’r Llywodraeth ar gyfer ysgolion a gynhelir â grant fymryn yn wahanol a darperir ar eu cyfer yn Rheoliadau Addysg (Ysgolion a Gynhelir â Grant) (Offerynnau Llywodraethu Cychwynnol) 1993.

At present, school governing bodies also operate under articles and instruments of Government. The articles of Government cover the establishment of governing body committees and the responsibility of school governors for admissions and exclusions. The instruments of Government deal with the title of the school, the composition of the governing body and other issues relevant to the individual school. Articles and instruments are prepared in accordance with models which the Welsh Office provided, but over time, variations have been adopted locally and their content now differs from school to school and from local authority to local authority. The end result is that governing bodies have to operate under three sets of legal provisions, which are not consistent in their effect on individual schools.

Ar hyn o bryd, mae cyrff llywodraethol ysgolion hefyd yn gweithredu dan erthyglau ac offerynnau Llywodraethu. Mae’r erthyglau Llywodraethu yn ymdrin â sefydlu pwyllgorau cyrff llywodraethol a chyfrifoldeb llywodraethwyr ysgolion am dderbyn a gwahardd. Mae’r offerynnau Llywodraethu yn ymdrin â theitl yr ysgol, cyfansoddiad y corff llywodraethol a materion eraill sy’n berthnasol i’r ysgol unigol. Paratoir erthyglau ac offerynnau yn unol â’r modelau a ddarperir gan y Swyddfa Gymreig ond, dros amser, mabwysiadwyd amrywiadau yn lleol ac mae eu cynnwys bellach yn amrywio o ysgol i ysgol a rhwng un awdurdod lleol a’r llall. Canlyniad hyn yw bod cyrff llywodraethol yn gorfod gweithredu dan dair set o ddarpariaethau cyfreithiol, nad ydynt yn gyson yn y ffordd y maent yn effeithio ar ysgolion unigol.

The 1998 Act and the new Education (School Government) (Wales) Regulations do away with this and streamline matters significantly. In this, they support the commitment made by Rosemary Butler to reduce the bureaucracy affecting schools wherever possible. In future, bodies will operate under these new regulations and shorter instruments of Government. The latter consists of the title of the school, the composition of the governing body and an ethos statement where the school is designated as having a religious character. We also have the opportunity to address a number of issues relating to the composition of governing bodies, meeting procedures and related matters. The regulations also provide enhanced protection against conflicts of interest, for instance, to prevent a governor who is also a school employee taking part in a meeting which discusses an individual’s pay or appraisal.

Mae Deddf 1998 a’r Rheoliadau Addysg (Llywodraeth Ysgol) (Cymru) yn gwneud i ffwrdd â hyn ac yn symleiddio llawer iawn ar bethau. Yn hyn o beth, maent yn cynnal yr addewid a roddwyd gan Rosemary Butler i leihau’r fiwrocratiaeth sy’n effeithio ar ysgolion lle y medrir. I’r dyfodol, bydd y cyrff yn gweithredu dan y rheoliadau newydd a’r offerynnau Llywodraethu byrrach hyn. Mae’r olaf yn cynnwys teitl yr ysgol, cyfansoddiad y corff llywodraethol a datganiad ethol lle dynodir bod i’r ysgol gymeriad crefyddol. Mae gennym gyfle hefyd i roi sylw i nifer o faterion yn ymwneud â chyfansoddiad cyrff llywodraethol, cyflawni gweithdrefnau a materion cysylltiol. Mae’r rheoliadau hefyd yn gwarchod yn well rhag gwrthdaro o ran buddiannau, er enghraifft, i atal llywodraethwr sydd hefyd yn gyflogedig yn yr ysgol rhag cymryd rhan mewn cyfarfod sy’n trafod tâl neu werthusiad unigolyn.

The main issues covered by the regulations are: arrangements to be made for instruments of Government and governing body composition; qualifications, disqualifications, tenure and terms of office and arrangements for resignation and removal of governors; the appointment and dismissal of clerks; governing body meetings and proceedings; and the establishment, constitution and clerking of governing body committees.

Y materion pennaf yr ymdrinnir â hwy yn y rheoliadau yw: y trefniadau sydd i’w gwneud o ran offerynnau Llywodraethu a chyfansoddiad y corff llywodraethol; cymwysterau, anghymwyso, y telerau i lywodraethwyr a’u cyfnod yn y swydd, a’r trefniadau ar gyfer ymddiswyddo a diswyddo; penodi a diswyddo clerciaid; cyfarfodydd a thrafodion y corff llywodraethol, a sefydlu pwyllgorau o’r corff llywodraethol, eu cyfansoddiad a’u clercio.

The Welsh Office issued draft regulations for consultation on the 28 May 1999 which identified the proposed changes to existing arrangements and requested comments by 30 June. The Welsh Office received 12 responses: six from local authorities, and the rest from the Board of Mission of the Church in Wales, the Diocesan Schools Commission, the National Association of Head Teachers, National Union of Teachers, Parent Teachers Association Wales and the National Association of Local Councils.

Cyhoeddodd y Swyddfa Gymreig reoliadau drafft at ddibenion ymgynghori ar 28 Mai 1999 a amlygai’r newidiadau arfaethedig i’r trefniadau presennol gan ofyn am sylwadau erbyn 30 Mehefin. Derbyniodd y Swyddfa Gymreig 12 ymateb: chwech gan awdurdodau lleol, a’r gweddill gan Fwrdd Cenhadaeth yr Eglwys yng Nghymru, Comisiwn yr Ysgolion Esgobaethol, Cymdeithas Genedlaethol y Prifathrawon, Undeb Cenedlaethol yr Athrawon, Cymdeithas Rhieni Athrawon Cymru a Chymdeithas Genedlaethol y Cynghorau Lleol.

There was general support, but some concerns were raised and we have sought to address these in the version of the regulations before you. In particular, the regulations now provide that where there are surplus governors, the most recently appointed governor in the relevant category should step down rather than the most senior, reflecting the concern that a greater emphasis should be on retaining experience.

Yn gyffredinol, cafwyd cefnogaeth, ond codwyd rhai pryderon ac yr ydym wedi ceisio rhoi sylw i’r rhain yn y fersiwn o’r rheoliadau sydd ger eich bron. Yn arbennig, yn y rheoliadau erbyn hyn dywedir, lle bo yna ormod o lywodraethwyr, mae’r llywodraethwr a benodwyd yn fwyaf diweddar yn y categori perthnasol ddylai ymddiswyddo yn hytrach na’r un a fu’n gwasanaethu hwyaf, gan adlewyrchu’r awydd am fwy o bwyslais ar gadw profiad.

We have made a number of other changes. We have relaxed the restriction on multiple governorships in the case of former group schools. I believe that local authorities and group schools will welcome this proposal. Under the Schools Standards and Framework Act 1998 every school must have its own governing body.

Yr ydym wedi gwneud nifer o newidiadau eraill. Llaciwyd y cyfyngiad ar lywodraethu ar fwy nag un ysgol yn achos yr hen ysgolion grwp. Credaf y bydd awdurdodau lleol ac ysgolion grwp yn croesawu hyn. Dan Ddeddf Safonau a Fframwaith Ysgolion 1998 rhaid i bob ysgol gael ei chorff llywodraethol ei hun.

That is a requirement of primary legislation and cannot be changed by the Assembly. I am aware of the concerns that have been voiced to many of us, that schools will find it difficult to recruit the required number of additional governors. In recognition of this, up to 31 August 2001, a member of the governing body of the former group school will be able to hold up to three governor appointments provided that at least two of them are for schools formally in the same group. The normal limit is two.

Mae hynny’n ofyniad dan ddeddfwriaeth sylfaenol ac ni all y Cynulliad ei newid. Yr wyf yn ymwybodol o’r pryderon a leisiwyd gan lawer ohonom, y bydd ysgolion yn ei chael hi’n anodd recriwtio’r nifer gofynnol o lywodraethwyr ychwanegol. Gan gydnabod hynny, hyd at 31 Awst 2001, bydd aelod o gorff llywodraethol hen ysgol grwp yn cael bod yn llywodraethwr ar hyd at dair ysgol cyhyd â bod o leiaf ddwy ohonynt yn ysgolion sydd, yn ffurfiol, yn yr un grwp. Fel arfer dim ond ar ddwy ysgol y ceir bod yn llywodraethwr.

The other regulations before us are the Education (New Schools) (Wales) Regulations 1999. They deal with the establishment of temporary governing bodies of new schools from 1 September 1999. Existing subordinate legislation deals with temporary governing bodies required before that date. The regulations enable local authorities to establish temporary governing bodies, for instruments of government to be made for the school and for the composition of the permanent governing bodies to be determined. They also enable the temporary governing bodies to determine other matters relating to the school, including its conduct and staffing. Temporary governing bodies hand over to permanent governing bodies once the school has opened, election of parents and staff governors has taken place and LEA foundation and other appointed governors have been appointed. The regulations reflect the arrangements contained in the existing regulations governing temporary governing bodies as well as the principles contained in the other regulations before us—the Education (School Government) (Wales) Regulations 1999.

Y rheoliadau eraill ger ein bron yw Rheoliadau Addysg (Ysgolion Newydd) (Cymru) 1999. Maent yn delio â sefydlu cyrff llywodraethol dros dro i ysgolion newydd o 1 Medi 1999. Mae’r is-ddeddfwriaeth bresennol yn ymdrin â’r cyrff llywodraethol dros dro oedd yn ofynnol cyn y dyddiad hwnnw. Mae’r rheoliadau yn galluogi awdurdodau lleol i sefydlu cyrff llywodraethol dros dro, yn caniatáu gwneud offerynnau llywodraethu i’r ysgol a phennu cyfansoddiad cyrff llywodraethol parhaol. Maent hefyd yn galluogi’r cyrff llywodraethol dros dro i benderfynu ar faterion eraill sydd a wnelont â’r ysgol, gan gynnwys y ffordd o’i chynnal a’i staffio. Mae cyrff llywodraethol dros dro yn trosglwyddo’r awenau i gyrff llywodraethol parhaol unwaith y mae’r ysgol wedi ei hagor, bod llywodraethwyr o blith y rhieni a’r staff wedi eu hethol a bod llywodraethwyr eraill a benodir wedi eu penodi. Mae’r rheoliadau yn adlewyrchu’r trefniadau a geir yn y rheoliadau presennol i lywodraethu cyrff llywodraethol dros dro yn ogystal â’r egwyddorion a geir yn y rheoliadau eraill ger ein bron—Rheoliadau Addysg (Llywodraeth Ysgol) (Cymru) 1999.

These draft regulations were issued for consultation to LEAs and other relevant bodies on 21 June. Unfortunately, because of the need for us to consider the regulations before our recess, the consultation period was necessarily short, ending on 13 July. No comments were received. This is a reflection of the fact that the regulations largely re-enact existing provisions in the context of the new school framework. The regulations need to come into force on 1 September so that new schools can be provided with a temporary governing body. Without a governing body, such schools cannot begin to prepare to establish admission policies, employ staff or engage in the many other issues that affect a new school.

Cyhoeddwyd y rheoliadau drafft hyn at ddiben ymgynghori â’r AALlau a chyrff perthnasol eraill ar 21 Mehefin. Yn anffodus, oherwydd bod angen inni ystyried y rheoliadau cyn ein gwyliau, yr oedd y cyfnod ymgynghori o reidrwydd yn fyr, gan orffen ar 13 Gorffennaf. Ni dderbyniwyd unrhyw sylwadau. Mae hyn yn adlewyrchu’r ffaith mai ailddeddfu’r darpariaethau presennol a wneir yn bennaf yng nghyd-destun y fframwaith newydd i ysgolion. Mae gofyn i’r rheoliadau ddod i rym ar 1 Medi fel y gall ysgolion newydd gael corff llywodraethol dros dro. Heb gorff llywodraethol, ni all ysgolion o’r fath ddechrau paratoi i sefydlu polisïau derbyn, cyflogi staff nac ymdrin â’r llu o ystyriaethau eraill sy’n effeithio ar ysgol newydd.

Both sets of regulations are the outcome of thorough consultation which has been going on for almost two years. It was two years ago with the White Paper ‘Building Excellent Schools Together’ that the Welsh Office set out its vision for a new school framework for Wales: to remove grant maintained schools, to secure more transparent funding arrangements for LEAs and schools, to increase the number of parent governors for schools, to provide for local governors, LEA governors on all governing bodies, to give parents representation on LEA education committees, to reform admission arrangements and to strengthen the role of LEAs in school improvements and in the consistent planning of school places.

Ffrwyth ymgynghori a fu ar y gweill ers bron i ddwy flynedd yw’r ddwy set o reoliadau. Aeth dwy flynedd heibio ers i’r Swyddfa Gymreig, yn y Papur Gwyn ‘Adeiladu Ysgolion Rhagorol gyda’n Gilydd’, gyflwyno ei gweledigaeth o ran fframwaith ysgolion newydd i Gymru: gwneud i ffwrdd ag ysgolion a gynhelir â grant, sicrhau trefniadau cyllido mwy tryloyw i AALlau ac ysgolion, cynyddu nifer rhiant lywodraethwyr ysgolion, darparu ar gyfer llywodraethwyr lleol, llywodraethwyr o’r AALl ar bob corff llywodraethol, rhoi cynrychiolaeth i rieni ar bwyllgorau addysg yr AALl, diwygio’r trefniadau derbyn a chryfhau rôl yr AALl o ran gwella ysgolion a chynllunio’r llefydd mewn ysgolion mewn modd cyson.

In the 12 months since the School Standards and Framework Act 1998 became law, a vast amount of work has been done in consultation and collaboration with the Welsh Local Government Association, LEAs, schools, the church authorities, the teacher unions involved in management, Governors Wales and others, so that the new framework can take full effect on 1 September. These two sets of regulations are the last significant pieces of the jigsaw and they are frames to minimise disruption to governing bodies. Without these, governing bodies would not be able to function. Without them, the new framework, on which so many of our education partners have worked so hard, would not be able to come into being. I commend the regulations for the Assembly’s approval.

Yn y 12 mis ers i Ddeddf Safonau a Fframwaith Ysgolion 1998 ddod yn ddeddf, mae swmp enfawr o waith wedi ei wneud mewn ymgynghoriad ac ar y cyd â Chymdeithas Llywodraeth Leol Cymru, yr AALlau, ysgolion, awdurdodau’r eglwys, yr undebau athrawon sy’n ymwneud â gwaith rheoli, Llywodraethwyr Cymru ac eraill, er mwyn i’r fframwaith newydd allu dod i rym yn llawn ar 1 Medi. Y ddwy set yma o reoliadau yw’r darn olaf o bwys yn y jig-so ac maent yn fframiau i darfu cyn lleied â phosibl ar gyrff llywodraethol. Heb y rhain, ni allai cyrff llywodraethol weithredu. Hebddynt, ni fyddai’r fframwaith newydd, y mae cynifer o’n partneriaid ym myd addysg wedi gweithio mor galed arno, yn gallu dod i fodolaeth. Yr wyf yn argymell y rheoliadau i’w cymeradwyo gan y Cynulliad.

Gareth Jones siaradwyd yn Gymraeg t. 49

Gareth Jones spoken in Welsh p. 49

Yr wyf yn derbyn bod pwysau i symud ymlaen a bod rhaid inni dderbyn yr hyn a gyflwynwyd y prynhawn yma, yn enwedig o gofio y cawn gyfle i drafod y rheoliadau yn ddiweddarach heddiw. Cyfeiriodd Andrew at rai pethau nad oes modd inni eu newid. Ond hoffwn ateb ganddo i gwestiwn am y rheoliadau. Mae yna ddogfen ymgynghorol yn ymwneud â rheoliadau 1999 yn mynd o amgylch ysgolion—‘Consultation on New Schools and a Draft Education’. Dyddiad cau y cyfnod ymgynghorol yw 27 Gorffennaf ac yr ydym heddiw ar 21 Gorffennaf yn gwneud penderfyniad. Mae’r dyddiadau hynny yn dangos elfen o anghysondeb.

I accept that there is pressure to move forward and we must accept what has been presented this afternoon, especially as the opportunity to discuss these regulations will be given later today. Andrew referred to some things that we are unable to change. But I would like an answer to one point about the regulations. A consultation document on the 1999 regulations is being circulated in schools—‘Consultation on New Schools and a Draft Education’. The consultation period closing date is 27 July and we are today making a decision on 21 July. Those dates demonstrate an element of inconsistency.

Rhoddwyd rhywfaint o sylw i gyfundrefn lywodraethol ein hysgolion eisoes, ond yn y cwestiynau i Rosemary, holi’r oeddwn am y strategaeth ar gyfer ysgolion gwledig, bach. Cyfeiriodd Andrew at rywfaint o ryddid wrth ymestyn yr hawl i berson fod yn llywodraethwr mewn tair ysgol yn hytrach na dwy. Ofnaf y bydd hynny yn dal i filwrio yn erbyn strategaethau effeithiol o glystyru a chreu ffederasiwn yn achos yr ysgolion hyn. Efallai bod rhaid inni fabwysiadu’r rheoliadau heddiw ond dylem edrych yn ofalus ar eu goblygiadau. Yr wyf yn dal i boeni am faint o ymgynghori sydd wedi digwydd ac am yr ystod amser a roddwyd i wneud hynny.

Some emphasis has already been placed on governing systems in our schools, but I asked in the questions to Rosemary about the strategy for small, rural schools. Andrew referred to a certain degree of freedom in allowing people to act as governors of three rather than two schools. I am concerned that this will continue to militate against effective clustering strategies and creating a federation as far as these schools are concerned. Perhaps we have to adopt these regulations today but we must look carefully at their implications. I am still concerned about the amount of consultation that has taken place and the amount of time given to do so.

Michael German spoken in English p. 50

Michael German siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 50

I will refer to the Government of Wales Act 1998, the National Assembly Advisory Group report and to the Standing Orders which will reflect the seriousness of this matter. I told Members yesterday that issues were raised at the Legislation Committee concerning the manner in which this type of legislation was put before the Assembly and the possible long-term effect and problems. We can tell from the litany of matters raised by Andrew Davies that these are genuine matters of concern to this Assembly as a whole.

Yr wyf am gyfeirio at Ddeddf Llywodraeth Cymru 1998, adroddiad Grwp Ymgynghorol y Cynulliad Cenedlaethol a’r Rheolau Sefydlog, sy’n adlewyrchu difrifoldeb y mater hwn. Dywedais wrth yr Aelodau ddoe fod ystyriaethau wedi eu codi yn y Pwyllgor Deddfwriaeth ynglyn â’r ffordd y cyflwynir y math yma o ddeddfwriaeth gerbron y Cynulliad a’r effaith a’r problemau hirdymor posibl. Mae’r rhes o faterion a godwyd gan Andrew Davies yn dweud wrthym fod y rhain yn faterion o bwys gwirioneddol i’r Cynulliad cyfan.

Paragraph 7.72 of the NAAG report recommends that there should be scope for all subordinate legislation that is not Assembly general subordinate legislation—that means this legislation—to be subject to full scrutiny procedures. It also recommends that information on all subordinate legislation made by the Assembly should be available to all Members. The recommendation to the Standing Orders Commission was that there would be an opportunity for scrutiny by the Assembly.

Mae Paragraff 7.72 yn adroddiad y Grwp Ymgynghorol yn argymell y dylai fod yn bosibl i’r holl is-ddeddfwriaeth nad yw’n is-ddeddfwriaeth gyffredinol yn ymwneud â’r Cynulliad—sy’n golygu’r ddeddfwriaeth hon—fynd drwy drefn archwilio lawn. Mae hefyd yn argymell y dylai gwybodaeth am yr holl is-ddeddfwriaeth a wneir gan y Cynulliad fod ar gael i’r holl Aelodau. Argymhellodd y Comisiwn Rheolau Sefydlog y dylai fod yna gyfle i’r Cynulliad archwilio is-ddeddfwriaeth.

The resolution is being moved under Standing Orders Nos 22.32 and 22.33. Jocelyn was right. The three lawyers familiar with this matter, collectively known as a parliament of lawyers, made their concerns clear. We were told that section 144 of the School Standards and Framework Act 1998 was not transferred to the Assembly. That transfer was an error and, in their words, an ‘oddity’. We therefore asked how many oddities are there? In fact there are a great number of them, which were going to be put into a second transference order. We were told that that second transference order was blocked by the Department of the Environment, Transport and the Regions. There must have been other environment measures that were ready to be transferred. Therefore it is for the Assembly to tidy up the business that Parliament left unsatisfactorily under the old regime. The second point, which is a general one, is that Standing Orders Nos 22.32 and 22.33 state that if an Assembly Secretary is to provide subordinate legislation that is the same as that provided by Westminster, there is no route for consultation. I do not suggest that this Executive will move in that way but those two Standing Orders permit such a way forward. That is in conflict with the report of the National Assembly Advisory Group committee, which reported earlier to the Standing Orders Commission. There is a mismatch between the two.

Mae’r penderfyniad yn cael ei gynnig dan Reolau Sefydlog Rhifau 22.32 a 22.33. Yr oedd Jocelyn yn iawn. Mae’r tri chyfreithiwr sy’n gyfarwydd â’r mater hwn, a elwir gyda’i gilydd yn senedd o gyfreithwyr, wedi lleisio’u pryderon yn glir. Dywedwyd wrthym nad oedd adran 144 Deddf Safonau a Fframwaith Ysgolion 1998 wedi ei throsglwyddo i’r Cynulliad. Trwy amryfusedd y gwnaed y trosglwyddiad ac, yn eu geiriau hwy, mae’n beth ‘rhyfedd’. Ein cwestiwn ni wedyn oedd faint o bethau rhyfedd sydd yna? Mewn gwirionedd, mae nifer fawr ohonynt, oedd yn mynd i gael eu rhoi mewn ail orchymyn trosglwyddo. Dywedwyd wrthym i’r ail orchymyn trosglwyddo gael ei atal gan Adran yr Amgylchedd, Trafnidiaeth a’r Rhanbarthau. Mae’n rhaid bod yna fesurau amgylcheddol eraill oedd yn barod i’w trosglwyddo. Felly mae’n rhaid i’r Cynulliad dwtio’r busnes a adawyd yn anfoddhaol gan y Senedd dan yr hen drefn. Yr ail bwynt, sy’n bwynt cyffredinol, yw bod Rheolau Sefydlog Rhifau 22.32 a 22.33 yn datgan nad oes unrhyw lwybr ar gyfer ymgynghori os yw un o Ysgrifenyddion y Cynulliad am ddarparu is-ddeddfwriaeth sy’n cyfateb i’r is-ddeddfwriaeth a ddarperir gan San Steffan. Nid wyf yn awgrymu y bydd y Pwyllgor Gwaith yn gweithredu fel hyn ond mae’r ddwy Reol Sefydlog hyn yn caniatáu gweithredu felly. Mae hynny’n groes i adroddiad Grwp Ymgynghorol y Cynulliad Cenedlaethol, a adroddodd ynghynt i’r Comisiwn Rheolau Sefydlog. Nid yw’r ddau yn cyd-fynd.

I am not suggesting that this Executive would do so, but a mischievous Executive wishing to ensure that its legislation got through without consulting the National Assembly for Wales, could ensure that as much subordinate legislation as possible could be put through in the manner proposed today, simply by laying it before this Assembly. You may take a view on whether the Executive would want to copy what was happening in London. The Assembly would simply consider whether to approve: it would have no right of amendment and no right to prior consultation. As you understand from the two Orders before us today, both regulations have been subject to substantial consultation. If they were good enough for consultation with the schools, teachers and local authorities of Wales, then they should have been good enough for consultation with the National Assembly for Wales.

Nid wyf yn awgrymu y byddai’r Pwyllgor Gwaith hwn yn gwneud hynny, ond gallai Pwyllgor Gwaith drygionus, am weld ei ddeddfau yn mynd drwodd heb ymgynghori â Chynulliad Cenedlaethol Cymru, sicrhau bod cymaint â phosibl o is-ddeddfwriaeth yn cael ei brosesu yn y dull a awgrymir heddiw, drwy wneud dim ond ei osod gerbron y Cynulliad hwn. Mater o farn yw a fyddai’r Pwyllgor Gwaith am efelychu’r hyn sy’n digwydd yn Llundain. Dim ond ystyried pa un i gymeradwyo ai peidio a wnâi’r Cynulliad: ni fyddai ganddo unrhyw hawl i newid nac unrhyw hawl sy’n sicrhau yr ymgynghorir ag ef ymlaen llaw. Fel y deallwch o’r ddau Orchymyn o’n blaenau heddiw, cafwyd ymgynghori sylweddol ar y ddwy set o reoliadau. Os oeddent yn ddigon da i ymgynghori yn eu cylch gydag ysgolion, athrawon ac awdurdodau lleol Cymru, dylent fod yn ddigon da i ymgynghori gyda Chynulliad Cenedlaethol Cymru yn eu cylch.

I declare an interest. I am a chair of governors who will be subject to some of these regulations. I am a governor of a joint school, which is about to amalgamate into a single school. Therefore, I have an interest in these matters, which are of concern to us in Wales.

Yr wyf yn datgan diddordeb. Yr wyf yn gadeirydd llywodraethwyr a fydd yn ddarostyngedig i rai o’r rheoliadau hyn. Yr wyf yn llywodraethwr ar ysgol ar-y-cyd, sydd ar fin uno’n un ysgol. Mae gennyf, felly, ddiddordeb yn y materion hyn, sydd o bwys inni yng Nghymru.

The second question is whether the procedures under 22.32 and 22.33 are appropriate. They allow an Executive to pass its legislation without consultation if it is the same as that in England. I refer to the Government of Wales Act 1998, which is rightly explicit about subordinate legislation. There are only two ways that power derives in this Assembly. The first is how we spend our cash, the second is the legislation that we will pass. Section 67(3) of the Government of Wales Act provides a route for an Executive to pass its legislation on an urgent matter or speedily. I referred to this matter earlier when Jane Hutt was speaking. Andrew referred to that when he proposed to lay a lot of legislation before this Assembly, mainly to do with education, during our recess period. However, that legislation will be subject to clause 67(3) of the Government of Wales Act, which provides that any Assembly Member is entitled to move to have it revoked within 40 working days, beginning with the day on which any Assembly general subordinate legislation is made. The Legislation Committee can then look at it in retrospect. Therefore, we have a safeguard for urgency whereby the Assembly will look at legislation in retrospect and can seek to revoke that legislation through a proposal moved by any Assembly Member.

Yn ail, rhaid holi a yw’r dulliau gweithredu dan 22.32 a 22.33 yn briodol. Maent yn caniatáu i Bwyllgor Gwaith basio ei ddeddfwriaeth heb ymgynghori os yw’r ddeddfwriaeth yn cyfateb i’r hyn a geir yn Lloegr. Cyfeiriaf at Ddeddf Llywodraeth Cymru 1998 sydd, yn gwbl briodol, yn bendant iawn am is-ddeddfwriaeth. Dim ond dwy elfen sydd i rym y Cynulliad hwn. Y gyntaf yw sut yr ydym yn gwario ein harian, a’r ail yw’r ddeddfwriaeth a lunnir gennym. Mae Adran 67(3) Deddf Llywodraeth Cymru yn cynnig llwybr i’r Pwyllgor Gwaith i basio ei ddeddfwriaeth ar fater brys neu yn gyflym. Cyfeiriais at y mater hwn yn gynharach pan oedd Jane Hutt yn siarad. Cyfeiriodd Andrew at hynny wrth ddweud y bwriedir gosod llawer o ddeddfwriaeth gerbron y Cynulliad hwn, yn bennaf ynglyn ag addysg, yn ystod ein cyfnod gwyliau. Fodd bynnag, bydd y ddeddfwriaeth honno yn ddarostyngedig i gymal 67(3) Deddf Llywodraeth Cymru, sy’n pennu bod gan unrhyw Aelod o’r Cynulliad hawl i gynnig ei bod yn cael ei dirymu o fewn 40 diwrnod gwaith, gan ddechrau gyda’r diwrnod y gwneir unrhyw is-ddeddfwriaeth gyffredinol sy’n ymwneud â’r Cynulliad. Gall y Pwyllgor Deddfau edrych arno wedyn yn ôl-weithredol. Felly, mae materion brys wedi eu diogelu a bydd y Cynulliad yn edrych ar y ddeddfwriaeth honno yn ôl-weithredol a gall geisio ei dirymu drwy gynnig a gyflwynir gan unrhyw Aelod o’r Cynulliad.

This does not apply to these two pieces of legislation, which I am addressing specifically. They fall out—with the Act, the NAAG report recommendations and the other forms of Standing Order. Therefore they come under two specific Standing Orders: Nos 22.32 and 22.33, which allow the Executive, providing it mirrors what is happening in England, to simply lay regulations before the Assembly.

Nid yw hyn yn berthnasol i’r ddau ddarn yma o ddeddfwriaeth, y cyfeiriaf i atynt yn benodol. Maent oddi allan i’r Ddeddf, i argymhellion adroddiad y Grwp Ymgynghorol a’r mathau eraill o Reolau Sefydlog. Maent felly yn dod dan ddwy Reol Sefydlog benodol: Rhifau 22.32 a 22.33, sy’n caniatáu i’r Pwyllgor Gwaith, cyhyd â’i fod yn efelychu’r hyn sy’n digwydd yn Lloegr, wneud dim ond gosod y rheoliadau gerbron y Cynulliad.

I suggest to the Business Committee and Andrew Davies that this Assembly requires three things. First, it requires a second transfer order to tidy up a range of what we are told are oddities, but what are clearly powers that were not transferred and remain with Westminster. Section 144 is one of them.

Awgrymaf i’r Pwyllgor Busnes ac Andrew Davies fod angen tri pheth ar y Cynulliad hwn. Yn gyntaf, mae angen ail orchymyn trosglwyddo i dwtio’r hyn a ddisgrifiwyd fel pethau rhyfedd ond sydd, yn amlwg, yn bwerau na throsglwyddwyd mohonynt ac sy’n dal gyda San Steffan. Mae Adran 144 yn un ohonynt.

Secondly, we require a change to the Standing Orders, particularly Nos 22.32 and 22.33, which are outside the NAAG report recommendations and do not fulfil the regulations to which section 67(3) of the Government of Wales Act refers.

Yn ail, mae angen newid y Rheolau Sefydlog, yn enwedig Rhifau 22.32 a 22.33, sydd tu allan i argymhellion adroddiad y Grwp Ymgynghorol a heb fod yn cyflawni’r rheoliadau y mae adran 67(3) Deddf Llywodraeth Cymru yn cyfeirio atynt.

Thirdly, we need to have the power to do those things ourselves because it is the Standing Orders that are in error, not the NAAG report or the Government of Wales Act. We are not considering a legal requirement, but a requirement of our Standing Orders. Therefore, it would be appropriate for us to decide and for Andrew Davies to agree that Standing Orders Nos 22.26 and 22.27 would apply to this legislation. I refer you to them because they are not regularly discussed. Standing Order No. 22.26 states:

Yn drydydd, mae angen y grym arnom i wneud y pethau hyn ein hunain gan mai’r Rheolau Sefydlog sy’n wallus, nid adroddiad y Grwp Ymgynghorol na Deddf Llywodraeth Cymru. Nid ydym yn ystyried gofyniad cyfreithiol, ond gofyniad yn ein Rheolau Sefydlog ni. Byddai’n briodol felly i ni benderfynu ac i Andrew Davies gytuno mai Rheolau Sefydlog Rhifau 22.26 a 22.27 sydd i’w harddel gyda’r ddeddfwriaeth hon. Cyfeiriaf chi atynt gan nad ydynt yn cael eu trafod yn rheolaidd. Dywed Rheol Sefydlog Rhif 22.26:

‘Whenever the Assembly Cabinet determines that it is not reasonably practicable for the Assembly to consider a report from the Legislation Committee relating to an Order, the relevant Assembly Secretary shall submit it to the Legislation Committee as soon as possible after the Order has been made and that Committee shall consider and report to the Assembly on the Order in accordance with Standing Order 11.’

‘Pryd bynnag y bydd Cabinet y Cynulliad yn penderfynu nad yw’n rhesymol ymarferol i’r Cynulliad ystyried adroddiad gan y Pwyllgor Deddfau mewn perthynas â Gorchymyn, bydd yr Ysgrifennydd Cynulliad perthnasol yn ei gyflwyno i’r Pwyllgor Deddfau cyn gynted ag y bo modd ar ôl i’r Gorchymyn gael ei wneud; a bydd y Pwyllgor yn ystyried y gorchymyn ac yn rhoi adroddiad i’r Cynulliad arno yn unol â Rheol Sefydlog 11.’

Therefore, we have an opportunity to do what we will always do in future and let the Legislation Committee have a look at regulations in retrospect. Standing Order No. 22.27 says:

Felly, mae gennym gyfle i wneud yr hyn y byddwn yn ei wneud bob amser yn y dyfodol a gadael i’r Pwyllgor Deddfau edrych yn ôl-weithredol ar y rheoliadau. Dywed Rheol Sefydlog Rhif 22.27:

‘Whenever the Assembly Cabinet has determined that it is not reasonably practicable for a draft Order to be laid before and approved by a resolution of the Assembly, a Member may, within the period of 40 working days beginning with the day on which the Order is made, table a motion that the Order be revoked. If the Assembly resolves accordingly, the resolution effects the revocation.’

‘Pryd bynnag y bydd Cabinet y Cynulliad wedi penderfynu nad yw’n rhesymol ymarferol i Orchymyn drafft gael ei osod gerbron a’i gymeradwyo drwy benderfyniad gan y Cynulliad, caiff Aelod, o fewn y cyfnod o 40 niwrnod gwaith a fydd yn cychwyn ar y diwrnod y gwneir y Gorchymyn, gyflwyno cynnig i’r Gorchymyn gael ei ddiddymu. Os bydd y Cynulliad yn penderfynu yn unol â hynny, bydd y penderfyniad yn gweithredu’r diddymiad.’

That would give the Assembly the right to have the form of consultation it demands. We have been bowled a googly with the first piece of legislation before the Assembly. If we had our time again, it would not have occurred in this manner.

Byddai hynny’n rhoi i’r Cynulliad yr hawl i gael y math o ymgynghori y mae’n ei fynnu. Bowliwyd gwgli atom gyda’r darn cyntaf o ddeddfwriaeth gerbron y Cynulliad. Pe baem yn cael ein hamser eilwaith, ni fyddai wedi digwydd fel hyn.

John Marek spoken in English p. 54

John Marek siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 54

To clarify, it would allow consultation and permit the Assembly to amend regulations if necessary. The present procedures do not allow this—you either vote against or not at all.

I fod yn glir, byddai’n caniatáu ymgynghori ac yn galluogi’r Cynulliad i newid y rheoliadau pe bai raid. Nid yw’r drefn bresennol yn caniatáu hyn—yr ydych un ai’n pleidleisio yn erbyn neu ddim o gwbl.

Michael German spoken in English p. 54

Michael German siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 54

All you can do now is vote for or against. The Assembly cannot amend these Orders. They are significant for Wales, as Andrew said. If Andrew accepted my proposals and a Member who wanted to change regulations and felt strongly enough about the matter, we could consider it and make changes. The changes I propose are based on Standing Orders, and are not derived from the Government of Wales Act. Therefore it is within the Assembly’s power to approve them, if Andrew is mindful to do so.

Y cyfan y gallwch ei wneud yn awr yw pleidleisio o blaid neu yn erbyn. Ni all y Cynulliad newid y Gorchmynion hyn. Maent yn bwysig i Gymru, fel y dywedodd Andrew. Pe bai Andrew yn derbyn fy nghynigion i a bod Aelod am newid rheoliadau ac yn teimlo’n ddigon cryf am y mater, gallem ei ystyried a gwneud newidiadau. Seiliwyd y newidiadau yr wyf yn eu cynnig ar y Rheolau Sefydlog, ac nid ydynt yn deillio o Ddeddf Llywodraeth Cymru. Mae gan y Cynulliad y grym i’w cymeradwyo, felly, os yw Andrew yn barod i wneud hynny.

We have got ourselves into a tricky position. Our first piece of legislation has been delivered as a googly. We need to ensure that the proposals in the Government of Wales Act and the NAAG report, are adhered to. I ask whoever is summing up for the Executive to take on board three points: the need for a second transfer order, changes to the Standing Orders and acceptance that Standing Orders Nos 22.26 and 22.27 should apply to what is being proposed today.

Cawn ein hunain mewn sefyllfa anffodus. Mae ein darn cyntaf o ddeddfwriaeth wedi cyrraedd fel gwgli. Dylem sicrhau y cedwir at y cynigion yn Neddf Llywodraeth Cymru ac adroddiad y Grwp Ymgynghorol. Gofynnaf i’r sawl sy’n crynhoi ar ran y Pwyllgor Gwaith gydnabod y tri phwynt yma: yr angen am ail orchymyn trosglwyddo, newidiadau i’r Rheolau Sefydlog a derbyn y dylai’r cynigion sydd ger ein bron heddiw gydymffurfio â Rheolau Sefydlog Rhifau 22.26 a 22.27.

Jonathan Morgan spoken in English p. 54

Jonathan Morgan siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 54

I will be brief. I am pleased to hear Andrew Davies’ comments about the speed at which these regulations were introduced to the Chamber. I know that they have taken on board some concerns expressed by the Opposition parties about the way particular regulations and forms of legislation are dealt with. Thank you for addressing that. I have no particular concerns with the regulations. I understand the need to have them implemented in readiness for the new school year.

Byddaf yn fyr. Yr wyf yn falch o glywed sylwadau Andrew Davies fod y rheoliadau hyn wedi eu cyflwyno i’r Siambr mor gyflym. Gwn fod rhai o’r pryderon a fynegwyd gan y Gwrthbleidiau am y ffordd yr ymdrinnir â rhai rheoliadau a mathau o ddeddfwriaeth wedi eu cydnabod. Diolch i chi am roi sylw i hynny. Nid oes dim penodol yn y rheoliadau yn fy mhoeni. Deallaf yr angen i’w gweithredu yn barod ar gyfer y flwyddyn ysgol newydd.

I ask the Government to consider the role of school governors in future. The role of school governors has changed dramatically over the past couple of years. Their position has become more specialised and often technical. Year by year, increasing burdens are put upon them. When we consider their responsibilities, particularly when we look at performance related pay and how school governors might be involved in assessment and appraisal of teachers, we need to examine how we offer particular aspects of training to school governors in order to ensure that those who are contributing to the government and management of schools are doing so meaningfully. I know that we all value our school governors. The schools in my area value the work of local people who are involved in the community. They provide valuable expertise and independence in the management of those schools. Bearing in mind the changes that have occurred in previous years and in anticipation of future changes, could the Executive consider what can be done in future to support our school governors who in turn support our teachers? I will not oppose these regulations. I understand the need for them to go through by September. However, I ask if the Government could consider these points and, in particular, how regulations and legislation are to be dealt with.

Gofynnaf i’r Llywodraeth ystyried rôl llywodraethwyr ysgolion i’r dyfodol. Mae rôl llywodraethwyr ysgolion wedi newid yn ddramatig dros y ddwy flynedd ddiwethaf. Aeth eu gwaith yn fwy arbenigol ac yn fwy technegol. Flwyddyn ar ôl blwyddyn, rhoddir baich cynyddol arnynt. Wrth inni ystyried eu cyfrifoldebau, yn enwedig wrth edrych ar dâl ar sail perfformiad a sut y gallai llywodraethwyr ysgolion fod â rhan yn y gwaith o asesu a gwerthuso athrawon, mae angen inni ystyried sut yr ydym yn cynnig agweddau penodol o hyfforddiant i lywodraethwyr ysgolion er mwyn sicrhau bod y rheini sy’n cyfrannu at lywodraethu a rheoli ysgolion yn gwneud hynny’n ystyrlon. Gwn fod pawb ohonom yn gwerthfawrogi ein llywodraethwyr ysgolion. Mae’r ysgolion yn fy ardal i yn gwerthfawrogi gwaith pobl leol sy’n cyfrannu i’r gymuned. Dônt ag arbenigedd ac annibyniaeth werthfawr i’r gwaith o reoli’r ysgolion hynny. A chofio am y newidiadau sydd wedi digwydd cyn hyn a chyda newidiadau pellach ar y gorwel, a allai’r Pwyllgor Gwaith ystyried beth y gellid ei wneud yn y dyfodol i gefnogi ein llywodraethwyr ysgol sydd, yn eu tro, yn cefnogi ein hathrawon? Ni fyddaf yn gwrthwynebu’r rheoliadau. Deallaf yr angen iddynt gael eu pasio erbyn mis Medi. Fodd bynnag, gofynnaf a allai’r Llywodraeth ystyried y pwyntiau hyn ac, yn enwedig, sut y dylid ymdrin â rheoliadau a deddfwriaeth.

Rosemary Butler spoken in English p. 55

Rosemary Butler siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 55

I offered to open this debate and am sorry that Andrew did not agree. I got the short end of the stick this afternoon. I am grateful for the thoughtful contributions made by Assembly Members. I have never known anybody to get so excited about regulation C, sub-paragraph B. I must remember to have Michael German on my side if I play chess or crib.

Cynigiais agor y drafodaeth hon ac mae’n ddrwg gennyf na chytunodd Andrew. Fi gafodd y fargen waethaf brynhawn heddiw. Yr wyf yn ddiolchgar am gyfraniadau’r Aelodau, sydd ag ôl meddwl arnynt. Nid wyf erioed wedi gweld neb yn cyffroi gymaint am reoliad C, is-baragraff B. Rhaid imi gofio cael Michael German ar fy ochr i os byddaf yn chwarae gwyddbwyll neu gribej.

I agree with Jonathan that governing bodies are the key to much of what goes on in our schools. They are responsible for the conduct of the school; for its policies in relation to attainment, discipline, special educational needs and other matters; for good management of the school budget, the appointment of staff and their pay and assessment. Without governing bodies the schools could not open. Members of the governing body and the head teacher are key players in schools. I would like to pay tribute to all the members of governing bodies throughout Wales. They are volunteers motivated by the desire to serve their communities and advance the educational attainment of our people. It is right that all parties have said today how valuable governors are.

Cytunaf â Jonathan mai’r cyrff llywodraethol yw’r allwedd i lawer o’r hyn sy’n digwydd yn ein hysgolion. Nhw sy’n gyfrifol am drefn yr ysgol; ei pholisïau ynglyn â chyrhaeddiad, disgyblaeth, anghenion addysgol arbennig a materion eraill; am reoli cyllideb yr ysgol yn dda, penodi staff a’u tâl a’u hasesiadau. Heb gyrff llywodraethol ni allai’r ysgolion agor. Mae aelodau’r corff llywodraethol a’r prifathro’n ffigyrau allweddol mewn ysgolion. Hoffwn dalu teyrnged i holl aelodau cyrff llywodraethol ledled Cymru. Gwirfoddolwyr ydynt wedi eu hysgogi gan yr awydd i wasanaethu eu cymunedau a gwella cyraeddiadau addysgol ein pobl. Da o beth yw fod pob plaid wedi dweud heddiw mor werthfawr yw llywodraethwyr.

Our responsibility is to provide governing bodies with the key elements of the legal framework which they need for the orderly conduct of their business. Without the regulations before us they could not function and the new school framework could not operate, thus negating many of the objectives of the Schools Standards and Framework Act and much of the work already undertaken by education partners. It would leave schools in limbo between the old and new frameworks.

Ein cyfrifoldeb ni yw rhoi i’r cyrff llywodraethol elfennau allweddol y fframwaith cyfreithiol y mae ei angen arnynt er mwyn cyflawni eu busnes yn drefnus. Heb y rheoliadau o’n blaenau ni allent weithredu ac ni allai’r fframwaith newydd i ysgolion gael ei roi ar waith, gan negyddu llawer o amcanion y Ddeddf Safonau a Fframwaith Ysgolion a llawer o’r gwaith a wnaed eisoes gan bartneriaid addysg. Byddai’n gadael ysgolion mewn gwagle rhwng yr hen fframwaith a’r un newydd.

One issue raised was the omission of section 144 in the Transfer of Functions order and the need for the regulations to be made jointly with the Secretary of State. Section 144 provides for transitional arrangements from the old to the new school framework. When the Transfer of Functions order was prepared it was thought that the Assembly would not need to use the provision, that the time for its use would have passed. With hindsight that was clearly a misjudgment but one that has provided us with the opportunity for our debate today. I am sorry that some people feel that, concerning these regulations, they have been bounced or bowled a googly, as Mike German said. Gareth Jones made a point about 27 July, the original closing date of consultations. It was brought forward to 13 July so that we could deal with this document before the recess.

Un mater a godwyd oedd gadael adran 144 allan o’r gorchymyn Trosglwyddo Swyddogaethau a’r angen i wneud y rheoliadau ar y cyd â’r Ysgrifennydd Gwladol. Mae Adran 144 yn darparu trefniadau i drosglwyddo o’r hen fframwaith ysgolion i’r un newydd. Pan luniwyd y gorchymyn Trosglwyddo Swyddogaethau ni thybiwyd y byddai angen i’r Cynulliad ddefnyddio’r ddarpariaeth, y byddai’r adeg i’w defnyddio wedi pasio. O edrych yn ôl mae’n amlwg fod hynny’n gamgymeriad ond mae wedi rhoi inni’r cyfle i gael dadl heddiw. Mae’n ddrwg gennyf fod rhai pobl yn teimlo, ynglyn â’r rheoliadau hyn, iddynt gael eu bownsio neu y bowliwyd gwgli atynt, fel y dywedodd Mike German. Gwnaeth Gareth Jones bwynt am 27 Gorffennaf, dyddiad cau gwreiddiol yr ymgynghori. Cafodd ei newid i 13 Gorffennaf fel y gallem ddelio â’r ddogfen hon cyn y gwyliau.

Mike German is the perfect choice to chair the Legislation Committee. He is right that these are significant regulations that will not be discussed again. They will be dealt with today. There has been confusion with the urgency procedures, some of which are different from those discussed today. I am not sure if they are on the web now but we have to deal with these today. I have an assurance from Andrew Davies, the Business Secretary that the Business Committee has made a commitment to look at Standing Orders Nos 22.7 and 22.6. I cannot go into the National Assembly Advisory Group report and I do not know the Standing Orders or the Government of Wales Act off by heart. I am sure that you will raise those points, Michael.

Mike German yw’r dewis perffaith i gadeirio’r Pwyllgor Deddfau. Mae’n iawn wrth ddweud bod y rhain yn rheoliadau pwysig na thrafodir mohonynt eto. Byddwn wedi delio â hwy heddiw. Cafwyd dryswch ynglyn â’r drefn argyfwng, sy’n wahanol mewn rhai ffyrdd i’r drefn yr ydym yn ei thrafod heddiw. Nid wyf yn siwr a ydynt ar y we yn awr ond mae’n rhaid delio â’r rhain heddiw. Cefais sicrwydd gan Andrew Davies, y Trefnydd fod y Pwyllgor Busnes wedi addo edrych ar Reolau Sefydlog Rhifau 22.7 a 22.6. Ni allaf ymhelaethu ar adroddiad Grwp Ymgynghorol y Cynulliad Cenedlaethol ac ni wn y Rheolau Sefydlog na Deddf Llywodraeth Cymru ar fy nghof. Yr wyf yn siwr y gwnewch chi godi’r pwyntiau hynny, Michael.

I would like to make two points. Firstly, these regulations come at the end of a process that has gone on for two years. The Assembly’s involvement has arisen late in the process and it is inevitable that in this and other areas of business, we have to complete work begun by others. We cannot stop the clock. To do so would, in this instance, leave school governing bodies in a legal limbo. In future, when there are significant developments affecting schools, I expect the Assembly to be fully informed from the outset. You have my assurance that that will happen.

Hoffwn wneud dau bwynt. Yn gyntaf, daw’r rheoliadau hyn ar ddiwedd proses a barodd ddwy flynedd. Yn hwyr yn y dydd y daeth y Cynulliad yn rhan o’r broses ac mae’n anochel ein bod, yma ac mewn meysydd busnes eraill, yn gorfod cwblhau gwaith a ddechreuwyd gan eraill. Ni allwn stopio’r cloc. Byddai gwneud hynny, yn yr achos hwn, yn gadael cyrff llywodraethol ysgolion mewn gwagle cyfreithiol. Yn y dyfodol, pan fydd yna ddatblygiadau pwysig sy’n effeithio ar ysgolion, yr wyf yn disgwyl i’r Cynulliad gael y manylion i gyd o’r dechrau. Rhoddaf fy ngair i chi y bydd hynny’n digwydd.

Secondly, it is obvious that the regulations are very technical. I was impressed with Mike German’s knowledge. Even those of us with long experience as school governors have difficulty in absorbing all the nuances. The key issue is whether those who operate the regulations and advise governing bodies are satisfied that they will work as they should. There has been full consultation and the concerns raised have been addressed. In the main, consultees were satisfied that the regulations drew on existing proven arrangements and dealt appropriately with matters that needed a new approach. Against this background I commend the regulations to the Assembly for its approval.

Yn ail, mae’n amlwg fod y rheoliadau yn dechnegol iawn. Gwnaeth gwybodaeth Mike German argraff arnaf. Mae hyd yn oed y rheini ohonom sydd â hir brofiad fel llywodraethwyr ysgol yn ei chael hi’n anodd deall pob arlliw. Y cwestiwn allweddol yw a yw’r rheini sy’n rhoi’r rheoliadau ar waith ac yn cynghori cyrff llywodraethol yn fodlon y byddant yn gweithio fel y dylent. Cafwyd ymgynghori llawn a rhoddwyd sylw i’r pryderon a godwyd. Ar y cyfan, yr oedd y rhai yr ymgynghorwyd â hwy yn fodlon bod y rheoliadau yn adlewyrchu’r trefniadau presennol sydd wedi ennill eu plwyf a’u bod yn delio’n briodol â materion y mae angen ymdrin â hwy mewn ffordd newydd. Yn erbyn y cefndir hwn, yr wyf yn argymell y rheoliadau i’r Cynulliad i’w cymeradwyo.

Dafydd Elis-Thomas The Presiding Officer spoken in English p. 58

Dafydd Elis-Thomas Y Llywydd siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 58

We will vote first on motion No. 1.

Fe bleidleisiwn yn gyntaf ar gynnig Rhif 1.

Pleidlais t. 58

Vote p. 58

DerbyniwydAdopted Drwy ddangos dwyloShow of hands

Mabwysiadwyd y cynnig.

Motion adopted.

Dafydd Elis-Thomas The Presiding Officer not named in the Record spoken in English p. 58

Dafydd Elis-Thomas Y Llywydd heb ei enwi yn y Cofnod siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 58

We will now vote on motion No. 2.

Fe bleidleisiwn yn awr ar gynnig Rhif 2.

Pleidlais t. 58

Vote p. 58

DerbyniwydAdopted Drwy ddangos dwyloShow of hands

Mabwysiadwyd y cynnig.

Motion adopted.

Y Sector Gwirfoddol

The Voluntary Sector

Alun Michael The First Secretary spoken in English p. 58

Alun Michael Y Prif Ysgrifennydd siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 58

I propose:

Cynigiaf:

Alun Michael Y Prif Ysgrifennydd (parhad) siaradwyd yn Gymraeg ac yn Saesneg t. 58

Alun Michael The First Secretary (continued) spoken in Welsh and English p. 58

Fel un sydd wedi bod yn rhan o’r sector gwirfoddol trwy gydol fy oes, mae’n bleser mawr gennyf siarad heddiw.

in Welsh As someone who has been part of the voluntary sector throughout my life, it is a great privilege for me to speak today.

I come to today’s debate with a lifelong commitment to the voluntary sector and to volunteering. By passing this resolution today, we are not just declaring an affection for motherhood and apple pie. We are taking the first step as an Assembly to make working with the voluntary sector a key part of our mainstream business—something that is at the heart of what we do rather than an afterthought. That is important because volunteering to do things for other people is an essential act of citizenship. It is the hallmark of a decent society. Voluntary action includes a wide range of individual and community action for public benefit, including voluntary organisations, community groups, volunteers, self-help, co-operative activity and religious organisations. It contributes to virtually every aspect of life in Wales—cultural, social, economic and environmental.

yn Saesneg Deuaf i’r ddadl heddiw gydag ymroddiad oes i’r sector gwirfoddol ac i wirfoddoli. Drwy basio’r penderfyniad hwn heddiw, nid dim ond datgan ein bod yn bleidiol i famau a tharten afal yr ydym. Dyma’n cam cyntaf ni fel Cynulliad i wneud gweithio gyda’r sector gwirfoddol yn rhan allweddol o’n busnes yn y brif ffrwd—rhywbeth sydd wrth graidd yr hyn a wnawn, yn hytrach na rhywbeth i’w gynnwys yn fympwyol. Mae hynny’n bwysig gan fod gwirfoddoli i wneud pethau dros bobl eraill yn weithred hanfodol i ddinasyddiaeth. Dyna sy’n dynodi cymdeithas wâr. Mae gweithredu cymunedol yn cynnwys ystod eang o weithredu unigol a chymunedol er budd y cyhoedd, gan gynnwys mudiadau gwirfoddol, grwpiau cymuned, gwirfoddolwyr, hunan-gymorth, gweithgaredd cydweithredol a mudiadau crefyddol. Mae’n cyfrannu at bob agwedd o fywyd yng Nghymru bron—diwylliannol, cymdeithasol, economaidd ac amgylcheddol.

The voluntary sector provides independent advice and many frontline services. It buys services and creates jobs. It directly employs some 13,000 people in Wales and empowers people to participate in the development of their communities. It fosters community leadership and enhances local democracy. It has been estimated that there are about 25,000 voluntary organisations in Wales, most of which are small, local community groups or are very specialised in their work, dealing with groups that often miss out in the broad sweep of public policy. Helen Mary’s amendment emphasises that point, which is why I accept it as a constructive addition to the resolution. Something like 1.9 million adults in Wales volunteer for an average of four hours, the equivalent of half a working day, every week. The Wales Council for Voluntary Action estimated the value of this volunteering at £3.4 billion a year. The WCVA also estimates the contribution of voluntary organisations and volunteers as the equivalent of 15 per cent of gross domestic product in Wales.

yn Saesneg Mae’r sector gwirfoddol yn darparu cyngor arbenigol a llawer o wasanaethau rheng flaen. Mae’n prynu gwasanaethau ac yn creu swyddi. Mae’n cyflogi tua 13,000 o bobl yn uniongyrchol yng Nghymru ac yn grymuso pobl i gyfrannu at ddatblygiad eu cymunedau. Mae’n meithrin arweinyddiaeth gymunedol ac yn hybu democratiaeth leol. Amcangyfrifwyd bod yna tua 25,000 o fudiadau gwirfoddol yng Nghymru, y rhan fwyaf ohonynt yn grwpiau cymuned lleol, bach neu’n arbenigo’n sylweddol yn eu gwaith, yn delio â grwpiau sy’n cael eu hanwybyddu yn aml yng nghwmpas eang polisi cyhoeddus. Mae gwelliant Helen Mary yn pwysleisio’r pwynt hwnnw, a dyna pam yr wyf yn ei dderbyn fel ychwanegiad adeiladol at y penderfyniad. Mae tua 1.9 miliwn o oedolion yng Nghymru yn gwirfoddoli pedair awr ar gyfartaledd, sy’n cyfateb i hanner diwrnod gwaith, bob wythnos. Mae Cyngor Gweithredu Gwirfoddol Cymru yn amcangyfrif bod y gwirfoddoli yma yn werth £3.4 biliwn y flwyddyn. Mae’r Cyngor Gweithredu hefyd yn amcangyfrif bod cyfraniad mudiadau gwirfoddol a gwirfoddolwyr yn cyfateb i 15 y cant o gynnyrch mewnwladol crynswth Cymru.

It is in recognition of the sector’s singular contribution that the Government of Wales Act requires this Assembly to create a scheme promoting the interests of the voluntary sector. The foundations for that scheme are well in place because the Assembly is fortunate in having inherited the Compact between the Government and the voluntary sector in Wales. The main document has been sent to all Members before this debate. The supporting documents that have already emanated from it cover volunteering, consultation procedures, working in partnership and a manual of guidance on voluntary sector grants, all of which are available in the library.

yn Saesneg Gan gydnabod cyfraniad neilltuol y sector, mae Deddf Llywodraeth Cymru yn ei gwneud yn ofynnol i’r Cynulliad hwn greu cynllun i hyrwyddo buddiannau’r sector gwirfoddol. Mae’r sylfeini ar gyfer hynny wedi eu sefydlu gan fod y Cynulliad yn ffodus i fod wedi etifeddu’r Compact rhwng y Llywodraeth a’r sector gwirfoddol yng Nghymru. Mae’r brif ddogfen wedi ei hanfon at yr holl Aelodau cyn y ddadl hon. Mae’r dogfennau cefnogol sydd eisoes wedi deillio ohoni yn cwmpasu gwirfoddoli, trefniadau ymgynghori, gweithio mewn partneriaeth a llawlyfr sy’n rhoi arweiniad ar grantiau’r sector gwirfoddol, ac mae pob un ohonynt ar gael yn y llyfrgell.

As Secretary of State, I launched the Compact in November last year, jointly with the WCVA and the Welsh Local Government Association. I did so with pride. Having undertaken a review for Tony Blair of the relationship between Government and the voluntary sector across the UK, the Labour Party’s policy document, ‘Building the Future Together’, was not just my document. It reflected the work I undertook with the voluntary sector, nationally and in every region in England, Scotland, Northern Ireland, north Wales and south Wales. In Wales our partnership was ahead of the rest of the UK. The Compact outlines policies and procedures for the relationship between the Government and the voluntary sector in Wales. It is an agreement between partners, founded on the shared interest of the voluntary and government sectors. It sets out the responsibilities and expectations of the Government and of the voluntary sector in working together. It also sets out best practice in the allocation and management of public resources and it promotes greater participation by the voluntary sector in policy formulation and implementation.

yn Saesneg Fel Ysgrifennydd Gwladol, lansiais y Compact fis Tachwedd diwethaf, ar y cyd â’r Cyngor Gweithredu a Chymdeithas Llywodraeth Leol Cymru. Gwnes hynny gyda balchder. Er imi, ar ran Tony Blair, gynnal adolygiad i’r berthynas rhwng y Llywodraeth a’r sector gwirfoddol ar draws y DU, nid fy nogfen i yn unig oedd dogfen bolisi’r Blaid Lafur, ‘Adeiladu’r Dyfodol gyda’n Gilydd’. Adlewyrchai’r gwaith a wnes gyda’r sector gwirfoddol, yn genedlaethol ac ym mhob rhanbarth o Loegr, yr Alban, Gogledd Iwerddon, gogledd Cymru a de Cymru. Yng Nghymru, yr oedd ein partneriaeth ar y blaen i weddill y DU. Mae’r Compact yn amlinellu polisïau a gweithdrefnau ar gyfer y berthynas rhwng y Llywodraeth a’r sector gwirfoddol yng Nghymru. Mae’n gytundeb rhwng partneriaid, wedi ei seilio ar ddiddordeb cyffredin y sector gwirfoddol a sector y llywodraeth. Mae’n nodi cyfrifoldebau’r Llywodraeth a’r sector gwirfoddol, a’r disgwyliadau o’r naill du a’r llall, wrth weithio gyda’i gilydd. Mae hefyd yn nodi’r ymarfer gorau o ran dyrannu a rheoli adnoddau cyhoeddus ac yn hybu mwy o gyfraniad o du’r sector gwirfoddol o ran llunio polisïau a’u rhoi ar waith.

In launching the Compact, I said that it was intended to form the basis of the Assembly’s voluntary sector scheme. I wanted to ensure that the same partnership principles between the Government and the voluntary sector were applied throughout the public sector in Wales. In other words, not just by the Assembly and formerly the Welsh Office but by each part of the public sector. For that reason I wrote to every local and health authority and every NHS trust and quango in Wales to encourage the development of a Compact between these bodies and the relevant parts of the voluntary sector by September this year. I underline that expectation and I am writing to those bodies again to remind them of the agreement to try to meet that target.

yn Saesneg Wrth lansio’r Compact, dywedais ei fod wedi ei fwriadu fel sylfaen i gynllun sector gwirfoddol y Cynulliad. Yr oeddwn am sicrhau bod yr un egwyddorion partneriaeth rhwng y Llywodraeth a’r sector gwirfoddol yn cael eu rhoi ar waith ledled y sector cyhoeddus yng Nghymru. Mewn geiriau eraill, nid dim ond gan y Cynulliad a’r Swyddfa Gymreig, fel yr oedd, ond gan bob rhan o’r sector cyhoeddus. I’r perwyl hwnnw, ysgrifennais at bob awdurdod lleol ac iechyd a phob ymddiriedolaeth NHS a chwango yng Nghymru i annog datblygu Compact rhwng y cyrff hyn a rhannau perthnasol y sector gwirfoddol erbyn mis Medi eleni. Hoffwn danlinellu’r disgwyliad hwnnw ac yr wyf yn ysgrifennu eto at y cyrff hynny i’w hatgoffa o’r cytundeb i geisio cyflawni’r targed.

There has been a positive response, particularly from the Welsh Local Government Association. The trick now is to ensure that these are not just warm words but that they become embedded into the way that the statutory and voluntary sector in Wales relate to one another. The current position is very patchy, but the Assembly must give a clear lead. I emphasised that we are talking about principles. They are not just words; they must be followed through in practice. Following debates on the broad statements of principles for the Assembly, I am pleased that propositions to Assembly Secretaries and subsequently the Assembly are reflecting those principles. By debating them we take the first steps towards putting them into practice. That is also the case with the resolution before us today.

yn Saesneg Cafwyd ymateb cadarnhaol, yn enwedig o du Cymdeithas Llywodraeth Leol Cymru. Y gamp bellach yw sicrhau mai nid geiriau gwresog yn unig yw’r rhain ond eu bod yn ymwreiddio yn y ffordd y mae’r sector statudol a’r sector gwirfoddol yng Nghymru yn perthnasu i’w gilydd. Mae’r sefyllfa’n dameidiog iawn ar hyn o bryd, ond rhaid i’r Cynulliad roi arweiniad clir. Pwysleisiais ein bod yn sôn am egwyddorion. Nid geiriau yn unig mohonynt; rhaid eu dilyn drwodd yn ymarferol. Yn dilyn dadleuon ar ddatganiadau bras o egwyddor i’r Cynulliad, yr wyf yn falch bod y cynigion i Ysgrifenyddion y Cynulliad ac wedyn i’r Cynulliad yn adlewyrchu’r egwyddorion hynny. Drwy eu trafod yr ydym yn cymryd y camau cyntaf tuag at eu gwireddu. Mae hynny’n wir hefyd gyda’r penderfyniad ger ein bron heddiw.

Under Section 144 of the Government of Wales Act our statutory obligation is to devise a scheme to promote the interests of relevant voluntary organisations and explain how the Assembly intends to exercise those functions affecting the voluntary sector. We must explain how the Assembly intends to consult the sector, how it intends to provide financial assistance and how that assistance will be monitored. As you see, those requirements are very specific. The Assembly must consult the voluntary sector before devising and publishing the scheme so that the sector can keep it under review. The scheme must be devised by the Assembly. That is unique, as there is no statutory basis for such a scheme in England and there is no comparable provision in the devolution legislation elsewhere. It is an obligation that we will fulfil with enthusiasm, building on the terms of the Compact.

yn Saesneg Dan Adran 144 Deddf Llywodraeth Cymru, mae gennym gyfrifoldeb statudol i ddyfeisio cynllun i hyrwyddo buddiannau mudiadau gwirfoddol perthnasol ac i egluro sut y mae’r Cynulliad yn bwriadu arddel y swyddogaethau hynny sy’n effeithio ar y sector gwirfoddol. Rhaid inni egluro sut y mae’r Cynulliad yn bwriadu ymgynghori â’r sector, sut y mae’n bwriadu rhoi cymorth ariannol a sut y caiff y cymorth hwnnw ei fonitro. Fel y gwelwch, mae’r gofynion hyn yn benodol iawn. Rhaid i’r Cynulliad ymgynghori â’r sector gwirfoddol cyn dyfeisio a chyhoeddi’r cynllun fel y gall y sector gadw golwg arno. Rhaid i’r Cynulliad ddyfeisio’r cynllun. Mae hynny’n unigryw, gan nad oes sylfaen statudol i gynllun o’r fath yn Lloegr ac nad oes darpariaeth gyffelyb yn y ddeddfwriaeth ddatganoli mewn ardaloedd eraill. Mae’n ddyletswydd a gyflawnir gennym yn frwdfrydig, gan ddatblygu ar delerau’r Compact.

We plan to present a draft scheme to the Assembly in the autumn and consult the sector between then and January. We will adopt the scheme formally in early spring of next year. While the main elements of the scheme are already in the Compact and its supporting documents, we must recognise that voluntary organisations share and underpin many of the Assembly’s core values and principles adopted a few weeks ago. They include equality of opportunity, sustainable development, social inclusion, inclusivity, and openness in the promotion of enterprise. As I have already hinted, Helen Mary Jones’ amendment seeks to underline points about inclusivity and equality of opportunity by ensuring that the scheme caters for women and women’s voluntary activities, black and ethnic minorities and small voluntary organisations, particularly at a grass roots level. That intention is in line with what we have always said. I fully support her amendment in making that explicit in today’s resolution.

yn Saesneg Bwriadwn gyflwyno cynllun drafft i’r Cynulliad yn yr hydref ac ymgynghori â’r sector rhwng hynny a mis Ionawr. Byddwn yn mabwysiadu’r cynllun yn gynnar yn y gwanwyn y flwyddyn nesaf. Tra bo prif elfennau’r cynllun yn y Compact a’i ddogfennau atodol yn barod, rhaid inni gydnabod bod mudiadau gwirfoddol yn rhannu ac yn cynnal llawer o’r gwerthoedd a’r egwyddorion craidd a fabwysiadwyd gan y Cynulliad rai wythnosau yn ôl. Maent yn cynnwys cydraddoldeb cyfle, datblygu cynaliadwy, a hybu menter mewn modd agored. Fel yr awgrymais eisoes, mae gwelliant Helen Mary Jones yn ceisio tanlinellu pwyntiau ynglyn â bod yn gynhwysol a sicrhau cyfle cyfartal drwy wneud yn siwr bod y cynllun yn darparu ar gyfer menywod a gweithgareddau gwirfoddol menywod, lleiafrifoedd du ac ethnig a mudiadau gwirfoddol bychan, yn enwedig yn eu broydd eu hunain. Mae’r bwriad hwnnw yn unol â’r hyn a ddywedwyd gennym erioed. Yr wyf yn llwyr gefnogi ei gwelliant am ei fod yn gwneud hynny’n glir yn y penderfyniad heddiw.

We must give careful thought to arrangements for meeting and consulting the voluntary sector. There is no statutory requirement to establish the equivalent of the Partnership Council for local government. In some ways the voluntary sector, like business, has indicated that it wants a different, more flexible, and to a certain extent, less bureaucratic structure. We need effective and explicit means by which this Assembly can engage the sector across the full range of our responsibilities and also engage the Assembly Secretaries and relevant Committees. We must ensure that there are sound arrangements for tapping into that expertise and, not least, in the policy development role of our subject Committees.

yn Saesneg Rhaid inni ystyried yn ofalus y trefniadau er mwyn cwrdd â’r sector gwirfoddol ac ymgynghori ag ef. Nid oes unrhyw ofyniad statudol i sefydlu corff sy’n cyfateb i’r Cyngor Partneriaeth ar gyfer llywodraeth leol. Mewn rhai ffyrdd, mae’r sector gwirfoddol, fel busnes, wedi dangos ei fod am gael strwythur gwahanol, mwy hyblyg ac, i ryw raddau, llai biwrocrataidd. Mae angen ffordd effeithiol a chlir arnom i’r Cynulliad hwn allu tynnu’r sector i mewn ar draws holl ystod ein cyfrifoldebau a hefyd dynnu Ysgrifenyddion y Cynulliad a’r Pwyllgorau perthnasol i mewn. Rhaid inni sicrhau bod yna drefniadau pendant i’n galluogi i fanteisio ar yr arbenigedd hwn ac, nid leiaf, yn rôl datblygu polisi ein Pwyllgorau pwnc.

I have always felt that if we can be clear about the programme of work—which is why it must run so far ahead—we can be considered in the work that we undertake in the Committees and as Assembly Members. We will be able to allow for the possibility of broadcasters picking up those themes in advance and of voluntary organisations and others with a specific interest, preparing their evidence to our Committees. That is how you engage people and enable them to be a part of this Assembly, rather than just being an Assembly for its Members.

yn Saesneg Yr wyf wedi teimlo erioed, os gallwn ni fod yn glir ynglyn â’r rhaglen waith—a dyna pam mae’n rhaid iddi redeg mor bell ymlaen —yna gallwn fod yn graff yn y gwaith a wnawn fel Pwyllgorau ac fel Aelodau o’r Cynulliad. Gallwn ganiatáu ar gyfer y posibilrwydd y bydd darlledwyr yn bachu ar y themâu hynny ymlaen llaw ac y bydd mudiadau gwirfoddol ac eraill sydd â diddordeb penodol yn paratoi eu tystiolaeth i’n Pwyllgorau. Dyna sut mae tynnu pobl i mewn a’u galluogi i fod yn rhan o’r Cynulliad hwn, yn hytrach na’i fod yn Gynulliad i’w Aelodau yn unig.

Following the Assembly’s creation we have the opportunity for much greater democratic involvement. In designing the correct structures we must avoid creating more meetings and paper. We need good practical arrangements allowing us an active partnership with the voluntary sector while maintaining the impetus of the Assembly’s work programme.

yn Saesneg Yn sgîl creu’r Cynulliad, mae gennym gyfle i gael llawer mwy o gyfrannu democrataidd. Wrth lunio’r strwythurau priodol rhaid inni osgoi creu mwy o gyfarfodydd a phapur. Mae angen trefniadau ymarferol da arnom i roi inni bartneriaeth fyw gyda’r sector gwirfoddol tra’n cynnal momentwm rhaglen waith y Cynulliad.

Jane Hutt and I have already explored the ground with the Wales Council for Voluntary Action and we have a sound basis for progressing. I hope Assembly Members will contribute positive ideas during this debate and as we carry this work forward. Assembly Members from all parties should be involved in helping to develop the scheme and I am pleased that discussions between parties produced the proposals referred to in today’s motion—that 11 Members should meet representatives of the voluntary sector to that end. It means that we are doing it in a different way but that each of the three sectors are being met by a cross-party group of Members to establish the way forward. Yesterday, I described the three golden threads of partnership with the voluntary sector, business and local government. These are treated with equal respect in the way that the Assembly seeks to build up its institutions and the means of developing partnership.

yn Saesneg Mae Jane Hutt a minnau eisoes wedi trafod y maes gyda Chyngor Gweithredu Gwirfoddol Cymru ac mae gennym sylfaen gadarn i symud ymlaen arni. Gobeithiaf y bydd Aelodau’r Cynulliad yn cyfrannu syniadau positif yn ystod y ddadl hon ac y gallwn symud y gwaith yn ei flaen. Dylai Aelodau o bob plaid fod â rhan mewn datblygu’r cynllun ac yr wyf yn falch i’r awgrymiadau y cyfeirir atynt yng nghynnig heddiw ddeillio o’r trafodaethau rhwng y pleidiau—y dylai 11 Aelod gwrdd â chynrychiolwyr o’r sector gwirfoddol i’r perwyl hwnnw. Mae’n golygu ein bod yn gwneud pethau mewn ffordd wahanol ond bydd grwp trawsbleidiol o Aelodau yn cwrdd â phob un o’r tri sector i sefydlu ffordd ymlaen. Ddoe, disgrifiais dri llinyn aur y bartneriaeth gyda’r sector gwirfoddol, busnes a llywodraeth leol. Caiff y rhain eu trin gyda’r un parch yn y ffordd y mae’r Cynulliad yn ceisio llunio ei sefydliadau a’r ffyrdd y datblygir partneriaethau.

I am sorry to say that Kirsty Williams’ amendment is not helpful because it seeks to make an arrangement formal and permanent when it was intended as a vehicle for consulting the sector. Her amendment would impose a partnership arrangement on the voluntary sector without the consultation that the Government of Wales Act requires. It would be bad manners and a breach of that Act. As an integral part of that scheme, the details of the partnership arrangements must be taken forward and consulted on. Cross-party discussions between Assembly Members and representatives of the voluntary sector will help us all identify long-term partnership arrangements agreed by all, on which we can build. They can be incorporated in the draft scheme on which we will consult.

yn Saesneg Mae’n ddrwg gennyf ddweud ond nid yw gwelliant Kirsty Williams yn ymddangos yn fuddiol iawn gan ei fod yn ceisio gwneud y trefniant, a fwriadwyd fel cyfrwng i ymgynghori â’r sector, yn un ffurfiol a pharhaol. Byddai ei gwelliant hi yn gorfodi trefniant partneriaeth ar y sector gwirfoddol heb yr ymgynghori sy’n ofynnol dan Ddeddf Llywodraeth Cymru. Byddai’n anghwrtais ac yn groes i’r Ddeddf honno. Fel rhan annatod o’r cynllun, rhaid symud manylion y trefniadau partneriaeth yn eu blaen ac ymgynghori arnynt. Bydd trafodaethau trawsbleidiol rhwng Aelodau’r Cynulliad a chynrychiolwyr y sector gwirfoddol yn help i bawb ohonom ddynodi trefniadau partneriaeth hirdymor, y cytunir arnynt gan bawb, y gallwn adeiladu arnynt. Gellir eu hymgorffori yn y cynllun drafft y byddwn yn ymgynghori yn ei gylch.

This Assembly will have other opportunities to discuss the partnership arrangements when we debate the scheme itself. As I have indicated, this pace allows our partners to work and agree with us on structures and our methods of working together. It is not a question of the Assembly or previously the Welsh Office making a decision and saying ‘There you are, voluntary sector, we have decided how you engage with us’. I am proud of the progress we have made. Partnership with the voluntary sector is a requirement on all parts of the Assembly. That will be pursued in accordance with the Compact as we develop these new and mature relationships and structures in partnership with it.

yn Saesneg Caiff y Cynulliad hwn gyfleoedd eraill i drafod trefniadau’r bartneriaeth pan fyddwn yn trafod y cynllun ei hun. Fel y nodais, mae’r dull hwn o symud yn ein blaenau yn galluogi ein partneriaid i gydweithio a chytuno gyda ni ar strwythurau ac ar ein dulliau o weithio gyda’n gilydd. Nid mater ydyw o’r Cynulliad, neu cyn hynny y Swyddfa Gymreig, yn gwneud penderfyniad ac yn dweud ‘Dyna chi, sector gwirfoddol, yr ydym wedi penderfynu sut y byddwch yn ymwneud â ni’. Yr wyf yn falch o’r cynnydd a wnaethom. Mae partneriaeth â’r sector gwirfoddol yn ofynnol ym mhob rhan o’r Cynulliad. Dilynir hynny yn unol â’r Compact wrth inni ddatblygu’r cysylltiadau a’r strwythurau newydd ac aeddfed hyn mewn partneriaeth ag ef.

This Assembly must recognise the voluntary sector as a key player and partner. It should not seek to own or control the sector, but work with it and nurture it. Its work is essential to a decent society and it must be at the heart of our work to build a better Wales.

yn Saesneg Rhaid i’r Cynulliad hwn gydnabod y sector gwirfoddol fel chwaraewr a phartner allweddol. Ni ddylai geisio meddiannu na rheoli’r sector, ond gweithio gydag ef a’i feithrin. Mae ei waith yn hanfodol i gymdeithas wâr a rhaid iddo fod wrth graidd ein gwaith o adeiladu Cymru well.

Helen Mary Jones spoken in English p. 64

Helen Mary Jones siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 64

I propose the following amendments:

Cynigiaf y gwelliannau isod:

Helen Mary Jones (continued) spoken in English p. 65

Helen Mary Jones (parhad) siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 65

No. 2: in paragraph 4 insert: ‘whole’ after ‘the’ and before ‘voluntary sector’.

Rhif 2: ym mharagraff 4 ychwaneger ‘yn gyfan’ ar ôl y geiriau ‘y sector gwirfoddol’.

Plaid Cymru—the Party of Wales, welcomes this debate and the Compact as a starting point for the Assembly’s relationship with the voluntary sector in Wales. I endorse everything the First Secretary said about the voluntary sector’s vital role in our communities and national life. However, we wish to sound some cautious and warning notes about the sins of omission in the Compact. The voluntary sector is highly complex. It goes from huge highly professional bodies with enormous staff and budgets to tiny local groups running on good will and no budget. I feel that the term ‘voluntary sector’ is misleading and that we should think in terms of non-profit or non-governmental organisations. Some of the voluntary organisations that we have in Wales are so large, that they hardly come into contact with volunteers at all. The term ‘voluntary sector’ covers relatively powerful and long-established organisations that work on behalf of others and groups established by—to use a 1970s word—oppressed people to fight discrimination such as disability, women’s and black and ethnic minority groups.

Mae Plaid Cymru—the Party of Wales, yn croesawu’r ddadl hon a’r Compact fel man cychwyn i berthynas y Cynulliad gyda’r sector gwirfoddol yng Nghymru. Ategaf bopeth a ddywedodd y Prif Ysgrifennydd am rôl holl bwysig y sector gwirfoddol yn ein cymunedau a’n bywyd cenedlaethol. Fodd bynnag, rhaid seinio nodyn o rybudd am bechodau drwy esgeulustod yn y Compact. Mae’r sector gwirfoddol yn gymhleth eithriadol. Mae’r amrywio o gyrff enfawr, tra phroffesiynol gyda staff niferus a chyllidebau mawr i grwpiau lleol bach iawn sy’n rhedeg ar ewyllys da a dim cyllideb. Teimlaf fod y term ‘sector gwirfoddol’ yn gamarweiniol ac y dylem feddwl yn nhermau mudiadau nid-am-elw neu gyrff nad ydynt yn rhan o’r llywodraeth. Mae rhai o’r mudiadau gwirfoddol sydd gennym yng Nghymru mor fawr fel nad ydynt prin yn dod i gysylltiad â gwirfoddolwyr o gwbl. Mae’r term ‘y sector gwirfoddol’ yn cwmpasu cyrff cymharol rymus, sydd wedi hen ennill eu plwyf, sy’n gweithio ar ran eraill, a grwpiau a sefydlwyd gan—i ddefnyddio gair o’r 1970au—bobl dan orthrwm i ymladd camwahaniaethu megis grwpiau anabledd, menywod a phobl ddu a lleiafrifoedd ethnig.

The Compact says some good things about the need to include people from black and ethnic minority communities and disabled groups. The contribution of women was acknowledged in the partners used to draw up the Compact. The Compact must acknowledge the role of women and women’s organisations in volunteering. We must address that. As a start, we welcome the broad commitment to equality of opportunity in the Compact

Mae’r Compact yn dweud rhai pethau da am yr angen i gynnwys pobl o gymunedau du a lleiafrifoedd ethnig a grwpiau anabl. Cydnabuwyd cyfraniad menywod ymysg y partneriaid a ddefnyddiwyd i lunio’r Compact. Rhaid i’r Compact gydnabod rôl menywod a mudiadau menywod ym maes gwirfoddoli. Rhaid inni roi sylw i hynny. Fel man cychwyn, yr ydym yn croesawu’r ymrwymiad bras i gydraddoldeb cyfle yn y Compact.

On the Government of Wales Act 1998, we have concerns about what constitutes the relevant parts of the voluntary sector in Wales. We have proposed the second amendment to make it clear that the Assembly is talking about the whole of the voluntary sector from grass roots to professional bodies.

Ar Ddeddf Llywodraeth Cymru 1998, mae gennym rai pryderon ynglyn â’r hyn sy’n llunio rhannau perthnasol y sector gwirfoddol yng Nghymru. Yr ydym wedi cynnig yr ail welliant er mwyn ei gwneud yn glir bod y Cynulliad yn sôn am y sector gwirfoddol yn gyfan, o’r rhai sy’n gweithio yn eu broydd i’r cyrff proffesiynol.

Fears have been expressed to me that the voices of small organisations and individual volunteers may not be heard through the Compact, despite good intentions. Umbrella groups have a role to play and we welcome the voluntary sector’s commitment in the Compact to proper consultation. Consultation with a constituency is not simple. Overall, the role of small and grass roots groups and volunteers is understated. This is something that our voluntary sector scheme will need to address.

Mynegwyd ofnau wrthym na fydd lleisiau’r mudiadau bach a gwirfoddolwyr unigol yn cael eu clywed hwyrach drwy’r Compact, er gwaethaf y bwriadau da. Mae gan grwpiau ymbarél rôl i’w chwarae ac yr ydym yn croesawu ymrwymiad y sector gwirfoddol yn y Compact i ymgynghori dilys. Nid yw ymgynghori â holl fuddiannau’r sector yn hawdd. Yn gyffredinol, ni sonnir digon am rôl grwpiau bychain a grwpiau yn eu broydd lleol. Mae hyn yn rhywbeth y bydd angen i’n cynllun ar gyfer y sector gwirfoddol roi sylw iddo.

We welcome the commitment on the Government’s part in the Compact to move toward three-year funding.

Croesawn ymrwymiad y Llywodraeth yn y Compact i symud tuag at gyllido dros dair blynedd.

Alun Michael The First Secretary spoken in English p. 66

Alun Michael Y Prif Ysgrifennydd siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 66

One of your concerns is how inclusive the definition of ‘voluntary sector’ would be. This is not about us deciding that the Wales Council for Voluntary Action has defined the voluntary sector in an inclusive way. It defined 21 headings, which allow a definition of small and local community groups, gender-specific groups and so forth, to be as inclusive as possible. I assure Helen Mary Jones that it is not only our aspiration to be inclusive. The WCVA is working hard to ensure that the definition is based on the approach that I mentioned.

Un o’ch pryderon yw pa mor gynhwysol fyddai’r diffiniad o’r ‘sector gwirfoddol’. Nid ni sy’n penderfynu hynny, mae Cyngor Gweithredu Gwirfoddol Cymru wedi diffinio’r sector gwirfoddol mewn ffordd gynhwysol. Diffiniodd 21 pennawd, sy’n caniatáu diffiniad o grwpiau cymuned bach a lleol, grwpiau dynion/menywod ac ati, i fod mor gynhwysol â phosibl. Rhoddaf sicrwydd i Helen Mary Jones mai nid dim ond ni sydd am fod yn gynhwysol. Mae’r Cyngor Gweithredu’n gweithio galed i sicrhau bod y diffiniad wedi ei seilio ar y safbwynt y cyfeiriais ato.

Helen Mary Jones spoken in English p. 66

Helen Mary Jones siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 66

Having been involved in drawing up the Compact in a past life, I am conscious of the First Secretary’s comments. I am also conscious that there are still serious concerns among grass roots groups regarding how it will be put into practice. This is why I have been asked to put that on the table today.

Gan imi fod â rhan yn y gwaith o lunio’r Compact mewn dyddiau a fu, yr wyf yn ymwybodol o sylwadau’r Prif Ysgrifennydd. Yr wyf hefyd yn ymwybodol bod yna bryderon difrifol yn parhau ymysg grwpiau bro ynglyn â sut y’i rhoddir ar waith. Dyna pam y gofynnwyd imi gyflwyno hyn heddiw.

The Government’s commitment to funding is welcome. This was discussed by the Health and Social Services Committee this morning. I was pleased to hear Jane Hutt reiterating her commitment to moving towards three-year funding. One aspect that we feel the scheme must address because the Compact does not, is the need for the Assembly to guarantee core funding for essential national voluntary groups. We must consider that within a partnership approach.

Croesawir ymrwymiad y Llywodraeth i gyllido. Trafodwyd hyn gan y Pwyllgor Iechyd a Gwasanaethau Cymdeithasol fore heddiw. Yr oeddwn yn falch o glywed Jane Hutt yn ailadrodd ei haddewid i symud tuag at gyllido dros dair blynedd. Un agwedd y teimlwn fod yn rhaid i’r cynllun roi sylw iddo, gan nad yw’r Compact yn gwneud hynny, yw’r angen i’r Cynulliad warantu cyllid craidd i grwpiau gwirfoddol cenedlaethol hanfodol. Rhaid inni ystyried hynny wrth weithredu trwy bartneriaeth.

I wish to ask for the Government’s response on a point that the scheme will address, but which voluntary groups tell me is a matter of urgency. What plans has the Assembly to give secondary policy direction to the various National Lottery boards at a UK level, and what timescale do we have to address that? It is important that the policy direction comes from the Post-16 Education and Training Committee, which is probably where the main responsibility will lie. The Pre-16 Education, Schools and Early Learning Committee and the Health and Social Services Committee should also have an input. I would be grateful for feedback on that today.

Hoffwn ofyn am ymateb y Llywodraeth ar bwynt y rhoddir sylw iddo yn y cynllun ond sydd, yn ôl grwpiau gwirfoddol, yn fater brys. Pa gynlluniau sydd gan y Cynulliad i roi cyfarwyddyd polisi eilaidd i wahanol fyrddau’r Loteri Genedlaethol ar lefel y DU, a pha amserlen sydd gennym i ymdrin â hynny? Mae’n bwysig bod y cyfarwyddyd polisi yn dod oddi wrth y Pwyllgor Addysg a Hyfforddiant Ôl-16, lle bydd y prif gyfrifoldeb yn gorffwys, mae’n debyg. Dylai’r Pwyllgor Addysg Cyn-16, Ysgolion a Dysgu yn y Blynyddoedd Cynnar a’r Pwyllgor Iechyd a Gwasanaethau Cymdeithasol hefyd gael llais. Byddwn yn falch o gael ymateb ar hynny heddiw.

Our discussions on the Compact are a good starting point towards developing a formal and lasting partnership with the voluntary sector. We in the Party of Wales feel that there is a need to consider how best to do that—as Alun Michael outlined—in full consultation with all aspects of the voluntary sector.

Mae ein trafodaethau ar y Compact yn fan cychwyn da tuag at ddatblygu partneriaeth ffurfiol a hirhoedlog gyda’r sector gwirfoddol. Teimlwn ni ym Mhlaid Cymru fod angen ystyried y ffordd orau o wneud hynny—fel yr amlinellodd Alun Michael—mewn ymgynghoriad llawn â phob agwedd o’r sector gwirfoddol.

We believe that this should not be a simple parallel to the local government partnership for example, because we are dealing with more complex organisations. It is for this reason that we will not support the Liberal Democrats’ amendment, though I am the last to impugn Kirsty’s manners, which I have always found to be impeccable. It is not because we feel that the approach is wrong but because we feel that it is too rigid a framework and a little too soon. We need to undertake a much wider consultation and must ensure that previously excluded groups are included and that small groups and individual volunteers are fully involved in the partnership and in developing the scheme.

Credwn na ddylai’r patrwm redeg ar yr un llinellau â’r bartneriaeth i lywodraeth leol, er enghraifft, am ein bod yn delio â sefydliad mwy cymhleth. Dyna pam na wnawn ni gefnogi gwelliant y Democratiaid Rhyddfrydol, er mai fi fyddai’r olaf i amau cwrteisi Kirsty, sydd bob amser yn ddilychwin. Nid am ein bod yn teimlo bod y gogwydd yn anghywir y’i gwrthwynebwn, ond am fod y fframwaith yn rhy anhyblyg yn ein barn ni a’i bod yn rhy gynnar i’w gyflwyno. Mae angen inni ymgynghori’n llawer mwy eang a sicrhau bod grwpiau a adawyd allan gynt yn cael eu cynnwys a bod grwpiau bychain a gwirfoddolwyr unigol yn cyfrannu’n llawn at y bartneriaeth ac at ddatblygu’r cynllun.

The meetings that the motion refers to need to be open and exploratory. We look forward to the Assembly working with the whole of the voluntary sector in Wales to develop a powerful and representative partnership that will make a vital contribution to our national life in future.

Mae gofyn i’r cyfarfodydd y cyfeiria’r cynnig atynt fod yn agored ac archwiliol. Edrychwn ymlaen at weld y Cynulliad yn gweithio gyda’r sector gwirfoddol yn gyfan yng Nghymru i ddatblygu partneriaeth rymus a chynrychioladol a fydd yn gwneud cyfraniad holl bwysig i’n bywyd cenedlaethol i’r dyfodol.

David Melding spoken in English p. 68

David Melding siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 68

The Conservatives will support this motion as amended by Plaid Cymru. Before I was elected, I pursued a career in the voluntary sector. Its scope and vitality is a matter of great pride to me. It has done much to invigorate public life and public policy, from foundling hospitals to the Samaritans, from lifeboats to AIDS and HIV. These essential social concerns have first been addressed by the voluntary sector.

Bydd y Ceidwadwyr yn cefnogi’r cynnig hwn fel y’i diwygiwyd gan Blaid Cymru. Cyn imi gael fy ethol, yn y sector gwirfoddol y bu fy ngyrfa. Mae ei gwmpas a’i egni yn ennyn balchder mawr ynof. Mae wedi gwneud llawer i rymuso bywyd cyhoeddus a pholisi cyhoeddus, o gyllido ysbytai i’r Samariaid, o fadau achub i AIDS a HIV. Y sector gwirfoddol oedd y cyntaf i roi sylw i’r materion cymdeithasol holl bwysig hyn.

As the First Secretary mentioned, the sector is a large player in terms of employment and can offer much in terms of expertise. I know that in our Committee work, and in the more informal work of the political parties when they are developing policies, we reflect on that expertise and use it. It is an excellent conduit into community involvement, because the sector is at grass roots and a way to transmit what the public demand of us as far as social action is concerned. Due to the sector being so varied, from small community groups to large national ones, it is able to innovate, move quickly and be at the cutting edge of policy development. Those are formidable advantages and we would minimise their use at our peril. I welcome the emphasis on partnership and the first moves towards a scheme.

Fel y soniodd y Prif Ysgrifennydd, mae’r sector yn chwaraewr o bwys o ran cyflogaeth a gall gynnig llawer mewn arbenigedd. Gwn ein bod, yn ein gwaith Pwyllgorau ac yng ngwaith mwy anffurfiol y pleidiau gwleidyddol wrth iddynt ddatblygu polisïau, yn ystyried a defnyddio’r arbenigedd hwnnw. Mae’n gyfrwng rhagorol i roi llais i’r gymuned, gan mai sector y bobl yw a’i fod yn ffordd i gyfleu’r hyn y mae’r cyhoedd yn ei fynnu gennym o ran gweithredu cymdeithasol. Am fod y sector yn amrywio cymaint, o grwpiau cymuned bach i rai cenedlaethol mawr, mae’n gallu arloesi, symud yn gyflym a bod ar y blaen o ran datblygu polisïau. Mae’r rhain yn fanteision grymus a gwae inni beidio â’u defnyddio. Croesawaf y pwyslais ar bartneriaeth a’r camau cyntaf tuag at gynllun.

It is important to encourage early participation in policy formulation. Too often in the past, the public and the voluntary sector have been consulted when a document has reached a certain level of completion. While their remarks may not be disregarded, there is a feeling that they were not there at an early stage when the framework was set and the policy decided. That is when the voluntary sector should be in on the act, as that is when it has most to contribute. We are realising how much of our work is at Committee level and how important it is. The demands are intense; some of the best sessions that I have listened to so far have been those involving the outside world, particularly the voluntary sector, but also other interested groups when they have given evidence.

Mae’n bwysig annog cyfraniad buan wrth lunio polisi. Yn rhy aml yn y gorffennol, ymgynghorwyd â’r cyhoedd a’r sector gwirfoddol pan fod dogfen wedi ei chwblhau i raddau. Er na ddiystyrwyd eu sylwadau efallai, teimlir nad oeddent yno ar y dechrau pan oedd y fframwaith yn cael ei bennu a’r polisi’n cael ei benderfynu. Dyna pryd y dylai’r sector gwirfoddol gael rhan, am mai dyna pryd y mae ganddo fwyaf i’w gyfrannu. Yr ydym yn sylweddoli faint o’n gwaith a wneir ar lefel Pwyllgor ac mor bwysig yw hynny. Mae yna alwadau enfawr; rhai o’r sesiynau gorau a glywais i hyd yma yw’r rheini yn ymwneud â’r byd tu allan, yn enwedig y sector gwirfoddol, ond hefyd grwpiau eraill â diddordeb wrth iddynt roi tystiolaeth.

The need to involve the voluntary sector as an equal partner has been emphasised by the First Secretary. I welcome most of his remarks. He made the point that the public sector at all levels needs to reflect on the Compact and be involved in the scheme. He is quite right. It goes for health trusts and the local government sector as well, and not just the Assembly. I hope that he would not think it churlish of me, if he were here, to point out that the Health Act 1999 abolishes the statutory requirement for consultation by social services and the health sector through joint consultative committees. It is unfortunate that we have the rhetoric of more partnership, but are removing the statutory right for consultation. What is in its place may in future be seen to be very effective and a welcome move, but the fact that it is not statutory raises problems.

Pwysleisiwyd yr angen i gynnwys y sector gwirfoddol fel partner cydradd gan y Prif Ysgrifennydd. Croesawaf y rhan fwyaf o’i sylwadau. Gwnaeth y pwynt fod angen i’r sector cyhoeddus ar bob lefel bwyso a mesur y Compact a bod yn rhan o’r cynllun. Mae’n hollol iawn. Mae hynny’n wir hefyd i’r ymddiriedolaethau iechyd a’r sector llywodraeth leol, nid dim ond y Cynulliad. Gobeithiaf na fyddai yn meddwl, pe bai yma, fy mod yn anfoesgar yn tynnu sylw at y ffaith bod Deddf Iechyd 1999 yn diddymu’r gofyn statudol i’r gwasanaethau cymdeithasol a’r sector iechyd ymgynghori drwy gyd-bwyllgorau ymgynghorol. Mae’n anffodus mai’r rhethreg yw mwy o bartneriaeth, ond bod yr hawl statudol i ymgynghori yn cael ei dileu. Efallai y gwelir i’r dyfodol bod yr hyn sydd gennym yn ei lle yn effeithiol iawn ac yn symudiad i’w groesawu, ond mae’r ffaith nad yw’n statudol yn codi problemau.

I also want to make a few remarks about resources. Most of us here who have experience of the voluntary sector know how important long-term funding is. It reflects the modesty of the demands the voluntary sector places on us; when it calls for long-term funding, it usually talks about three-year funding. To most people, that would not be regarded as very long-term. All too often they do not get three-year funding. It is literally funding from year to year. This poses formidable difficulties for trustees for instance, when they set budgets, often receiving income or the guarantee of income quite late. How do they proceed? These are very difficult impediments to the proper running of the voluntary sector. I hope that we will see an end to the short-term manner in which a lot of statutory agencies are funding their voluntary partners. Often it is done to achieve essential public policy goals and one-year funding is not adequate.

Yr wyf hefyd am wneud rhai sylwadau am adnoddau. Gwyr y rhan fwyaf ohonom yma sydd â phrofiad o’r sector gwirfoddol mor bwysig yw cyllido hirdymor. Mae’n adlewyrchu mor gymedrol yw’r galwadau arnom o du’r sector gwirfoddol; wrth alw am gyllido hirdymor, fel arfer mae’n sôn am gyllid dros dair blynedd. I’r rhan fwyaf, ni fyddai hynny’n dymor hir iawn. Yn rhy aml o lawer nid ydynt yn cael cyllid dros dair blynedd. Yn llythrennol, fe’u cyllidir o flwyddyn i flwyddyn. Mae hynny’n peri anawsterau difrifol i ymddiriedolwyr, er enghraifft, wrth iddynt bennu eu cyllidebau, gan eu bod yn aml yn derbyn incwm neu’r gwarant o incwm yn reit hwyr. Sut mae bwrw ymlaen? Mae’r rhain yn llytheffeiriau anodd iawn rhag rhedeg y sector gwirfoddol yn briodol. Gobeithiaf y gwelwn ddiwedd ar y modd byrdymor y mae llawer o asiantaethau statudol yn cyllido eu partneriaid gwirfoddol. Yn aml fe’i gwneir i gyflawni amcanion polisi cyhoeddus hanfodol ac nid yw cyllido am flwyddyn yn ddigonol.

We Conservatives must make some remarks on the level of resources, even in a debate as consensual as this. The current squeeze that is being placed on the budget is having a severe effect on the voluntary sector. I refer Members to the budget plans that have been put before us for the following three years. The voluntary sector portion under health and social services is at a standstill level, and by the year 2001-2002 is set to fall by 7 per cent. That is the reality of our financial position. We should reflect on that when we talk about involving and empowering the public sector. We are planning to cut financial resources available to them.

Rhaid i ni’r Ceidwadwyr wneud rhai sylwadau am lefel yr adnoddau, hyd yn oed mewn dadl mor gytûn â hon. Mae’r gwasgu ar y gyllideb ar hyn o bryd yn cael effaith ddifrifol ar y sector gwirfoddol. Cyfeiriaf sylw’r Aelodau at gynlluniau’r gyllideb am y tair blynedd nesaf a roddwyd o’n blaen. Mae dogn y sector gwirfoddol dan iechyd a’r gwasanaethau cymdeithasol yn sefyll yn ei hunfan, ac erbyn y flwyddyn 2001-2002 bydd yn disgyn 7 y cant. Dyna realiti ein sefyllfa ariannol. Dylem ystyried hynny wrth inni sôn am gynnwys a grymuso’r sector cyhoeddus. Ein bwriad yw torri ar yr adnoddau ariannol sydd ar gael iddynt.

Ultimately the scheme that is developed will be judged on the quality of the outcome and how it enables groups in the community across Wales to achieve the vital social goals and public policy priorities that we are forming. If we involve them to achieve those goals, we must provide them with the wherewithal to be effective partners.

Yn y pen draw bydd y cynllun a ddatblygir yn cael ei farnu yn ôl ansawdd y canlyniadau a sut y mae’n galluogi grwpiau yn y gymuned ar draws Cymru i gyflawni’r amcanion cymdeithasol holl bwysig a’r blaenoriaethau polisi cyhoeddus yr ydym yn eu llunio. Os ydym i’w cynnwys yn y gwaith o gyflawni’r amcanion hynny, rhaid inni roi’r modd iddynt i fod yn bartneriaid effeithiol.

Kirsty Williams spoken in English p. 70

Kirsty Williams siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 70

I propose the following amendment. Delete the last paragraph and insert:

Cynigiaf y gwelliant isod. Dileer y paragraff diwethaf ac ychwaneger:

Kirsty Williams (continued) spoken in English p. 70

Kirsty Williams (parhad) siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 70

Thank you for having the good manners to give me the opportunity to propose this amendment, which was in no way tabled in the spirit of bad manners, as I have been accused of.

Diolch ichi am fod mor gwrtais â rhoi imi’r cyfle i gynnig y gwelliant hwn, na chyflwynwyd mohono o gwbl mewn ysbryd anghwrtais, er imi gael fy nghyhuddo o hynny.

The Liberal Democrats welcome the opportunity to recognise the contribution of the voluntary sector to Welsh society. The contribution is impressive as Wales Council for Voluntary Action figures show. Every week, 80 per cent of adults are involved in volunteering in all aspects of Welsh life, from environment to education, from housing to health, from sports to arts and culture. It generates £500 million of income in Wales. For every pound that we invest, it generates another 40. By already identifying £10 million of potential match funding for new European programmes, they may even help Alun Michael off that hook. The voluntary sector offers fantastic value for money, and is increasingly filling the gaps left by shrinking public expenditure in many areas.

Mae’r Democratiaid Rhyddfrydol yn croesawu’r cyfle i gydnabod cyfraniad y sector gwirfoddol i gymdeithas Cymru. Mae’n gyfraniad hynod, fel y dengys ffigyrau Cyngor Gweithredu Gwirfoddol Cymru. Bob wythnos, mae 80 y cant o oedolion yn ymwneud â gwirfoddoli ym mhob agwedd o fywyd Cymru, o’r amgylchedd i addysg, o dai i iechyd, o chwaraeon i’r celfyddydau a diwylliant. Mae’n cynhyrchu £500 miliwn o incwm yng Nghymru. Am bob punt a fuddsoddwn, mae’n cynhyrchu 40 arall. Drwy ddynodi £10 miliwn o gyllid cyfatebol posibl, yn barod, efallai y gwnânt helpu i achub croen Alun Michael yn hynny o beth. Mae’r sector gwirfoddol yn cynnig gwerth anhygoel am arian a, fwyfwy, mae’n llenwi’r bylchau a adewir gan wariant cyhoeddus sy’n crebachu mewn llawer maes.

This motion, which is a welcome one, states that it endorses the commitment of the Compact. Those commitments include consultation and continued involvement in policy development. As we have already heard, this is happening presently. This morning, the Health and Social Services Committee had a wonderful session with Children in Wales, where they imparted a great deal of knowledge on specific areas of interest in helping us to develop our policy on a children’s commissioner for Wales.

Mae’r cynnig hwn, a groesawir, yn dweud ei fod yn ategu’r addewid yn y Compact. Mae’r addewidion hynny yn cynnwys ymgynghori a pharhau i gael llais mewn datblygu polisi. Fel yr ydym wedi clywed yn barod, mae hynny’n digwydd ar hyn o bryd. Fore heddiw, cafodd y Pwyllgor Iechyd a Gwasanaethau Cymdeithasol sesiwn rhagorol gyda Phlant yng Nghymru, lle y rhoesant inni lawer iawn o wybodaeth am feysydd penodol sydd o ddiddordeb i’n helpu i ddatblygu ein polisi ar gomisiynydd plant i Gymru.

One of the most exciting things about the Assembly, is the opportunity to create a new style of policy making and to realise that politicians do not have all the answers. Sometimes we have not even got the questions right. The Assembly gives an opportunity to look outside ourselves and involve other people in our policy-making procedures. The voluntary sector has the expertise and experience to ensure that our policy-making is well informed, relevant and realistic.

Un o’r pethau mwyaf cyffrous am y Cynulliad yw’r cyfle i greu arddull newydd o ran llunio penderfyniadau a sylweddoli nad yw’r holl atebion gan wleidyddion. Weithiau nid ydym hyd yn oed yn gofyn y cwestiynau iawn. Mae’r Cynulliad yn rhoi cyfle i edrych tu hwnt i ni ein hunain a chynnwys pobl eraill yn ein trefn llunio penderfyniadau. Mae gan y sector gwirfoddol yr arbenigedd a’r profiad i sicrhau ein bod yn llunio polisïau perthnasol a realistig, a hynny ar sail y ffeithiau perthnasol.

Alun says that he is committed to making the voluntary sector a key part in our work. We in the Liberal Democrats are committed to the same aim. Therefore, we must ensure that partnership is put into motion. We must put in place mechanisms to ensure that this is the case. This is best done by building on the Welsh Office voluntary sector forum that existed, by creating a long-lasting and formal voluntary sector forum with the Assembly. Alun says that I am being prescriptive and that I make demands on the voluntary sector that it perhaps does not want. When the WCVA visited us last week, they called on the Assembly to create such a forum. I refer Alun Michael to the Assembly briefing on voluntary action in Wales, prepared by the WCVA. Point 5 says:

Dywed Alun ei fod yn ymrwymo i wneud y sector gwirfoddol yn rhan allweddol o’n gwaith. Yr ydym ni, y Democratiaid Rhyddfrydol, wedi ymrwymo i’r un nod. Felly, rhaid inni sicrhau bod partneriaeth yn cael ei rhoi ar waith. Rhaid sefydlu peirianwaith i sicrhau bod hyn yn digwydd. Gwneir hyn orau drwy adeiladu ar y fforwm i’r sector gwirfoddol a fodolai dan y Swyddfa Gymreig, drwy greu fforwm hirhoedlog a ffurfiol i’r sector gwirfoddol gyda’r Cynulliad. Dywed Alun fy mod yn orgyfarwyddol ac yn rhoi galwadau ar y sector gwirfoddol nad yw, efallai, yn eu dymuno. Pan ymwelodd y Cyngor Gweithredu â ni yr wythnos ddiwethaf, galwont ar y Cynulliad i greu fforwm o’r fath. Cyfeiriaf Alun Michael at y papur crynhoi i’r Cynulliad ar weithredu gwirfoddol yng Nghymru, a baratowyd gan y Cyngor Gweithredu. Dywed pwynt 5:

‘Set up an Assembly-Voluntary Sector Forum which would build upon the work of the Welsh Office-Voluntary Sector Forum to provide a overview of the scheme, and act as a forum for discussing policy issues that affect the voluntary sector as a whole.’

‘Sefydlu Fforwm i’r Cynulliad-Sector Gwirfoddol a fyddai’n adeiladu ar waith Fforwm Sector Gwirfoddol y Swyddfa Gymreig i gadw golwg gyffredinol ar y cynllun, ac i weithredu fel fforwm i drafod materion polisi sy’n effeithio ar y sector gwirfoddol drwyddo draw.’

The voluntary sector demands such a forum and they deserve no less from us today. We do not, at any point, seek to be prescriptive and dictate what happens within the forum. That is a matter for the voluntary sector and the 11 Members of the Assembly that are elected to it. By calling for a permanent and formal setting, the Government of Wales is not allowed to wriggle out of its commitment under the voluntary sector scheme and the Government of Wales Act 1998. By establishing such a body we will send a signal to the voluntary sector that we afford them the same status as we do local government. We intend to progress in that way.

Mae’r sector gwirfoddol yn galw am fforwm o’r fath ac maent yn haeddu dim llai gennym heddiw. Nid ydym, o gwbl, yn ceisio cyfarwyddo a phennu beth sy’n digwydd yn y fforwm. Mater i’r sector gwirfoddol a’r 11 Aelod o’r Cynulliad a etholir iddo yw hynny. Drwy alw am sefydliad parhaol a ffurfiol, ni chaniateir i Lywodraeth Cymru ymryddhau o’i haddewid dan gynllun y sector gwirfoddol a Deddf Llywodraeth Cymru 1998. Drwy sefydlu corff o’r fath byddwn yn rhoi arwydd i’r sector gwirfoddol ein bod yn rhoi iddynt hwy yr un statws ag a roddwn i lywodraeth leol. Ein bwriad ni yw symud ymlaen yn y ffordd honno.

I have no idea why Alun Michael was so touchy about this motion. It was not meant to be ill mannered, prescriptive or telling the voluntary sector what to do. It was tabled in good faith and in an attempt to ensure that partnership happens.

Nid oes gennyf unrhyw syniad pam yr oedd Alun Michael mor groendenau am y cynnig hwn. Ni fwriadwyd ef yn anfoesgar, yn gyfarwyddol, nac i ddweud wrth y sector gwirfoddol beth i’w wneud. Fe’i cyflwynwyd yn ddidwyll ac mewn ymgais i sicrhau y caiff partneriaeth ei gwireddu.

Pauline Jarman spoken in English p. 72

Pauline Jarman siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 72

I want to pick up on the points that David Melding and Helen Mary Jones made regarding why we need partnerships. As a member of a local authority, I cannot give enough credit to the voluntary sector in my area for the valuable work that they do. We must illustrate today why we need this scheme and why we need partnerships between the voluntary sector, the Assembly, local government and the health service. We need the voluntary sector to give us their knowledge, experience and expertise so that it bears on the Government of Wales’ policy on people and the causes they work for. There is concern about funding for the future. It is not just the funding it gets from local government but is primarily how legislation is inclined sometimes to creep up on us, as David mentioned. That can have a grave influence on the services it provides in the future.

Hoffwn gyfeirio at bwyntiau David Melding a Helen Mary Jones ynglyn â pham y mae angen partneriaethau arnom. Fel aelod o awdurdod lleol, ni allaf roi digon o glod i’r sector gwirfoddol yn fy ardal i am y gwaith gwerthfawr a wnânt. Rhaid inni ddarlunio heddiw pam fod angen y cynllun hwn arnom a pham fod angen partneriaethau rhwng y sector gwirfoddol, y Cynulliad, llywodraeth leol a’r gwasanaeth iechyd arnom. Mae angen y sector gwirfoddol arnom, i roi inni eu gwybodaeth, eu profiad a’u harbenigedd, fel eu bod yn goleuo polisi Llywodraeth Cymru ynglyn â phobl a’r achosion y maent yn gweithio drostynt. Mae yna bryder ynglyn â chyllid i’r dyfodol. Nid dim ond y cyllid a gaiff gan lywodraeth leol ond yn bennaf fel y mae deddfwriaeth weithiau’n dod ar ein gwarthaf, fel y soniodd David. Gall hynny gael dylanwad difrifol ar y gwasanaethau a ddarperir gan y sector i’r dyfodol.

On Welsh Women’s Aid, I wish to underline Helen Mary’s concerns that women’s organisation should be involved in all that we do. Members will know that Welsh Women’s Aid has been providing services in Wales for 21 years. The organisation is acknowledged as the leading expert in specialist support for women and children at risk of domestic violence. There is a funding reform going through the Westminster Government at present, which could have a devastating effect, unless the Assembly influences it in the Welsh way of supporting people. In England, the Government has accepted that there is a need for a special cross-authority fund to protect services to so-called ‘unpopular categories’; unpopular in so far as they are not local. I refer to rough sleepers and those fleeing domestic violence. There is a fear in Wales that unless the Assembly addresses the impending legislation in consultation with the voluntary sector, there is a grave danger that existing services could be cut or reduced. I cannot emphasise enough the value of Women’s Aid in my area, south Wales central. Last year, over 15,000 women in Wales contacted them for support and information. The public sector does not have the expertise to respond to that demand. It would be destructive if we did not acknowledge the voluntary sector’s funding and its role in the preparation of legislation and influencing it.

O safbwynt Cymorth i Fenywod yng Nghymru, hoffwn danlinellu pryderon Helen Mary y dylai mudiadau menywod fod â rhan ym mhopeth a wnawn. Fe wyr yr Aelodau fod Cymorth i Fenywod yng Nghymru wedi bod yn darparu gwasanaethau yng Nghymru ers 21 mlynedd. Cydnabyddir y mudiad fel y prif arbenigwr o ran rhoi cefnogaeth arbenigol i fenywod a phlant sydd mewn perygl rhag trais yn y cartref. Mae Llywodraeth San Steffan wrthi’n diwygio’r drefn gyllido ar hyn o bryd, a gallai hynny gael effaith drychinebus, oni bydd y Cynulliad yn dylanwadu ar y ffordd y cefnogir pobl yng Nghymru. Yn Lloegr, mae’r Llywodraeth wedi derbyn bod angen cronfa arbennig ar draws awdurdodau i amddiffyn gwasanaethau i’r hyn a elwir yn ‘gategorïau amhoblogaidd’, amhoblogaidd yn yr ystyr nad ydynt yn lleol. Cyfeiriaf at y rhai sy’n cysgu ar y strydoedd a’r rheini sy’n dianc rhag trais yn y cartref. Mae yna ofn yng Nghymru fod perygl dirfawr y gallai’r gwasanaethau presennol gael eu torri neu eu cwtogi, oni wnaiff y Cynulliad roi sylw i’r ddeddfwriaeth arfaethedig mewn ymgynghoriad â’r sector gwirfoddol. Ni allaf bwysleisio gwerth Cymorth i Fenywod yn fy ardal i, canol de Cymru, ddigon. Y llynedd, cysylltodd dros 15,000 o fenywod yng Nghymru â hwy am gefnogaeth a gwybodaeth. Nid oes gan y sector cyhoeddus yr arbenigedd i ymateb i’r galw yna. Byddai’n ddinistriol pe na baem yn cydnabod cyllid y sector gwirfoddol a’i rôl yn y gwaith o baratoi’r ddeddfwriaeth a dylanwadu arni.

I was glad the First Secretary said it would be a partnership and a full and meaningful role. We are not only listening, but intend to participate fully and ensure that the voluntary sector’s quality of work is not undermined. Kirsty Williams has my sympathy. It was unfortunate Kirsty, that the First Secretary mentioned your amendment in that manner. Your heart was in the right place, but you wore your heart on your sleeve instead of allowing your brain to rule on this occasion. I do not think you did what you did intentionally. We all want this forum to succeed because the people who will benefit are mainly disadvantaged: disabled, sick or elderly.

Yr oeddwn yn falch i’r Prif Ysgrifennydd ddweud y byddai’n bartneriaeth ac yn rôl lawn ac arwyddocaol. Nid yn unig yr ydym yn gwrando, ond bwriadwn gyfranogi’n llawn a sicrhau na thanseilir ansawdd gwaith y sector gwirfoddol. Cydymdeimlaf â Kirsty Williams. Yr oedd yn anffodus, Kirsty, i’r Prif Ysgrifennydd gyfeirio at eich gwelliant yn y ffordd y gwnaeth. Yr oedd eich calon yn y lle iawn, ond yr ydych wedi dilyn eich teimladau y tro hwn yn lle gadael i’ch ymennydd reoli. Ni thybiaf ichi wneud yr hyn a wnaethoch yn fwriadol. Mae pawb ohonom am weld y fforwm hwn yn llwyddo oherwydd mae’r bobl a fydd yn elwa ar y cyfan â diffyg mantais, yn anabl, yn sâl neu’n oedrannus.

Gwenda Thomas siaradwyd yn Gymraeg ac yn Saesneg t. 74

Gwenda Thomas spoken in Welsh and English p. 74

Hoffwn dalu teyrnged i’r sector gwirfoddol am gyfraniad holl bwysig yng Nghymru yn gyffredinol ac yn arbennig yng Nghastell-nedd Port Talbot. Yn rhinwedd fy swydd flaenorol fel cadeirydd gwasanaethau cymdeithasol, sylweddolais yn fwyfwy mor angenrheidiol erbyn hyn yw cyfraniad y sector gwirfoddol, yn ffurfiol ac yn anffurfiol, yng nghynhaliaeth gwasanaethau cyhoeddus.

in Welsh I wish to pay tribute to the voluntary sector for its all-important contribution in Wales generally and particularly in Neath Port Talbot. In my previous office as chairperson of social services, I increasingly came to realise how crucial the voluntary sector’s contribution is, both formally and informally, in maintaining public services.

I agree that the voluntary sector’s vital contribution should be recognised. In Neath Port Talbot, I have seen excellent practice in the partnership between local government and the voluntary sector. I am pleased to highlight common aspects in the partnership agreement between Neath Port Talbot County Borough Council and the voluntary sector and in the Compact between the Government and the voluntary sector in Wales.

yn Saesneg Cytunaf y dylid cydnabod cyfraniad anhepgor y sector gwirfoddol. Yng Nghastell-nedd Port Talbot, gwelais ymarfer rhagorol yn y bartneriaeth rhwng llywodraeth leol a’r sector gwirfoddol. Mae’n bleser imi dynnu sylw at rai agweddau cyffredin yn y cytundeb partneriaeth rhwng Cyngor Bwrdeistref Sirol Castell-nedd Port Talbot a’r sector gwirfoddol ac yn y Compact rhwng y Llywodraeth a’r sector gwirfoddol yng Nghymru.

There is common agreement in both documents that the voluntary sector has a role to play in the formulation and delivery of public policy. The documents also note that the development of joint policies will build and enhance the quality of life in Wales. There is also common agreement on the need for formal consultation on policy issues that directly effect the voluntary service. It also notes that, where appropriate, joint planning should be undertaken.

yn Saesneg Ceir cytundeb yn y ddwy ddogfen fel ei gilydd bod gan y sector gwirfoddol rôl i’w chwarae o ran llunio a chyflwyno polisïau cyhoeddus. Mae’r dogfennau hefyd yn nodi y bydd datblygu cyd-bolisïau yn hybu a gwella ansawdd bywyd yng Nghymru. Ceir cytundeb o’r naill ochr a’r llall hefyd bod angen ymgynghori ffurfiol ar ystyriaethau polisi sy’n effeithio’n uniongyrchol ar y gwasanaeth gwirfoddol. Mae’n nodi hefyd y dylid ymgymryd â gwaith cynllunio ar y cyd, lle bo hynny’n briodol.

The consensus of opinion continues into the field of documentation and advice. Both documents pinpoint the need to ensure that all advice pertaining to grant aid procedures must be clear and consistent at all times. The need to develop a system in which senior executives are given responsibility for ensuring a free and efficient interchange of information between government organisations and the voluntary sector is also highlighted.

yn Saesneg Mae’r consensws barn yn parhau wrth ymdrin â dogfennau a chynghori. Mae’r ddwy ddogfen yn amlygu’r angen i sicrhau bod pob cyngor ynglyn ag ymgeisio am grantiau yn glir a chyson bob amser. Amlygir hefyd yr angen i ddatblygu system lle rhoddir cyfrifoldeb i uwch swyddogion gweithredol am sicrhau bod gwybodaeth yn cael ei chyfnewid yn ddilyffethair ac effeithlon rhwng cyrff y llywodraeth a’r sector gwirfoddol.

Both documents note that funding could be problematic. They also mention that the best way forward was to develop a funding system that achieves consistency between funding programmes; helps voluntary organisations to fulfil their legal and regulatory obligations; puts in place a programme of stable long term funding, which will in turn, allow voluntary organisations to plan the long term effectively; monitors and evaluates voluntary organisations’ work regarding grant-aided projects while always striving for clear grant scheme objectives of grant schemes and eligibility criteria.

yn Saesneg Nodir yn y ddwy ddogfen y gallai cyllido fod yn broblematig. Maent hefyd yn sôn mai’r ffordd orau ymlaen yw datblygu system gyllido sy’n sicrhau cysondeb rhwng rhaglenni cyllido; yn helpu mudiadau gwirfoddol i gyflawni eu rhwymedigaethau cyfreithiol a rheoleiddiol; yn sefydlu rhaglen o gyllid hirdymor sefydlog a fydd, yn ei thro, yn caniatáu i fudiadau gwirfoddol gynllunio’n effeithiol ar gyfer y tymor hir; yn monitro a gwerthuso gwaith mudiadau gwirfoddol yng nghyswllt prosiectau sy’n derbyn cymorth grant tra’n ymdrechu bob amser i gael amcanion a meini prawf cymhwyso clir i gynlluniau grant.

I agree that the Compact document should form the basis of the voluntary sector scheme. One of the most important roles of the Assembly should be to identify best practice and facilitate the sharing of information.

yn Saesneg Cytunaf mai ar ddogfen y Compact y dylid seilio cynllun y sector gwirfoddol. Dylai dynodi ymarfer da a hwyluso rhannu gwybodaeth fod yn un o swyddogaethau pwysicaf y Cynulliad.

Geraint Davies siaradwyd yn Gymraeg t. 75

Geraint Davies spoken in Welsh p. 75

Un o fanteision byw yng Nghymru yw fod gennym system wirfoddol mor eang ac effeithiol. Mae’r ffigurau yn dangos hyn: mae gan 25,000 o grwpiau gwirfoddol incwm blynyddol o £570 miliwn. Am bob punt a fuddsoddir gan y gronfa gyhoeddus, mae’r gymdeithas yn elwa £40. Dyna fargen y mileniwm. Mae’n anhygoel meddwl bod 80 y cant o boblogaeth Cymru yn ystyried eu hunain yn wirfoddolwyr sy’n treulio dros bedair awr yr wythnos yn gwneud gwaith gwirfoddol. Mae’n bwysig i’n heconomi. Amcangyfrifir bod gwirfoddoli yn cyfrannu 15 y cant o gynnyrch crynswth mewnwladol Cymru.

One of the advantages of living in Wales is that we have such a broad and effective voluntary system. The figures demonstrate this: 25,000 voluntary groups have an annual income of £570 million. For every pound invested from the public purse, society benefits by £40. That is the bargain of the millennium. It is extraordinary to think that 80 per cent of the population of Wales considers itself a volunteer, spending over four hours a week doing voluntary work. It is important for our economy. It is estimated that voluntary work contributes 15 per cent to the gross domestic product of Wales.

Er hynny, mae problemau gyda’r ystadegau. Maent yn cydnabod Cymru, ond nid y sector gwirfoddol mewn termau Cymreig. Cymuned o gymunedau yw Cymru ac mae mudiadau gwirfoddol yn rhoi bywyd i’n cymunedau. Gosodwyd yr ystadegau ar Gymru gyda meddwl Prydeinig. Nid ydynt yn dangos pwysigrwydd y sector gwirfoddol i draddodiad ieithyddol, crefyddol a diwylliannol Cymru. Derbyniaf bwynt Pauline Jarman ynglyn â Chymorth i Fenywod.

However, there are problems with the statistics. They recognise Wales, but not the voluntary sector in Welsh terms. Wales is a community of communities and voluntary organisations give life to our communities. The Welsh figures are based on a British mindset. They do not demonstrate the importance of the voluntary sector to Wales’ linguistic, religious and cultural tradition. I accept Pauline Jarman’s point about Women’s Aid.

Y mae’n holl bwysig fod y Cynulliad yn dechrau meddwl am y sector gwirfoddol yng Nghymru.

It is critical that the Assembly starts thinking about the voluntary sector in Wales.

Mae’n anodd amgyffred bywyd heb fudiadau gwirfoddol yn y Rhondda. Maent yn rhoi calon i gymunedau drwy Gymru. Mudiadau fel, er enghraifft, prosiect Penyrenglyn yn Nhreherbert ym mhen uchaf y Rhondda sydd yn gweithio yn ddyfal i ddatrys problemau ystad cyngor yn un o ardaloedd mwyaf difreintiedig ein gwlad.

It is difficult to envisage life without voluntary bodies in the Rhondda. They are the heart of communities throughout Wales. Organisations such as, for example, the Penyrenglyn project in Treherbert at the top of the Rhondda valley, which works diligently to solve the problems of a council estate in one of the most deprived areas in our country.

Pam mae’r mudiad hwn mor bwysig? Y mae wedi llwyddo i ddod â gwasanaethau statudol i’r ystad, hynny yw, gwasanaethau iechyd. Mae yna glinig i blant a gwasanaethau cymdeithasol ac addysgol. Darperir gwersi a dysgir sgiliau i rieni. Mae yna glwb ieuenctid, clwb gwaith cartref a phrosiectau chwarae. Mae hyn yn dangos mor hyblyg yw mudiadau gwirfoddol; gallant addasu i sefyllfaoedd gwahanol gymunedau. Mae’r trigolion yn teimlo fod ganddynt berchnogaeth ar y cynllun ac mae’n rhoi gobaith gwirioneddol iddynt. Mae’r mudiadau hefyd yn cryfhau’r ymdeimlad cymunedol a chydweithredol, gan helpu i ddatrys problemau tlodi, anghyfraith a chyffuriau. Ni allant ddatrys popeth, ond maent yn codi ansawdd bywyd ac yn rhoi neges glir i’r bobl: bod pobl yn poeni amdanynt, eu dyfodol a dyfodol eu plant.

Why is this organisation so important? It has succeeded in bringing statutory services to the estate, that is, health services. There is a children’s clinic and social and educational services. It delivers lessons and teaches skills to parents, there is a youth club, a homework club and play projects. This shows how flexible voluntary bodies are; they can adapt to the different situations of different communities. The residents feel that they have ownership of the scheme and it gives them real hope. These organisations also strengthen the sense of community and co-operation, helping to solve problems of poverty, drugs and lawlessness. They cannot solve everything, but they improve the quality of life and give people a strong message: that people are concerned about them, their future and their children’s future.

Croesawaf y Compact a’r gwelliannau. Bydd hwn yn sail i gydweithrediad rhwng y sector gwirfoddol a’r Llywodraeth. Un peth yw cael egwyddorion ond mae’n allweddol fod cyfraniad ariannol y Llywodraeth yn cynyddu. Ers 1994, mae cyfraniad y Llywodraeth wedi gostwng yn flynyddol. Mae’n anodd credu hynny o gofio’r lles anhygoel y maent yn ei gynnig i’n cymunedau. Mae’n rhaid i hyn newid. Gobeithiaf y byddwn, fel Cynulliad, yn helpu’r sector, gydag Amcan 1 yn benodol. Deallaf fod ganddynt arian cyfatebol eisoes ac mae’n hanfodol i ardaloedd megis y Rhondda ein bod yn rhoi cymorth i’r mudiadau hyn.

I welcome the Compact and the amendments. This will be a basis for co-operation between the voluntary sector and the Government. It is one thing to have principles, but an increase in the Government’s financial contribution is essential. Since 1994, the Government’s contribution has fallen each year. That is difficult to believe considering the great benefit that they provide to our communities. This must change. I hope that we, as an Assembly, will help the sector, and specifically with Objective 1. I understand that they already have match funding and it is essential to areas such as the Rhondda that we assist these organisations.

I gloi, mae’r sector yn bwysig i Gymru. Mae’n bwysig ein bod yn cydweithio, ond mae’n hanfodol ein bod yn deall gwerth y sector i’r bywyd Cymreig. Ni ddylem fyth gymryd y sector yn ganiatol.

To close the sector is important to Wales. It is important that we collaborate, but it is essential that we understand the sector’s value to Welsh life. We should never take this sector for granted.

Jane Davidson spoken in English p. 77

Jane Davidson siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 77

We often use the word historic in talking about the Assembly but it is truly historic for us to debate the voluntary sector scheme because we are the one part of Britain whose legislature is under a statutory obligation to relate to local government, the voluntary sector and business. I am pleased that the debate on business will take place immediately after recess. We will have our three prongs in place. That means that we will be ready to take action, knowing that we have the right relationship with the different sectors that contribute to the quality of life in Wales.

Defnyddiwn y gair hanesyddol yn aml wrth siarad am y Cynulliad ond mae’n wirioneddol hanesyddol inni fod yn trafod cynllun y sector gwirfoddol gan mai ni yw’r unig ran o Brydain sydd â’i deddfwrfa dan rwymedigaeth statudol i gysylltu â llywodraeth leol, y sector gwirfoddol a busnes. Yr wyf yn falch y caiff y ddadl ar fusnes ei chynnal yn syth ar ôl y gwyliau. Bydd y tair elfen wedi eu sefydlu wedyn. Mae hynny’n golygu y byddwn yn barod i weithredu, gan wybod bod gennym y berthynas iawn â’r gwahanol sectorau sy’n cyfrannu at ansawdd bywyd yng Nghymru.

Just after I was elected, I had the pleasure of attending the Interlink award ceremony. Interlink is the local umbrella voluntary organisation for Rhondda Cynon Taff. In paying tribute to the voluntary sector, Pauline Jarman and Geraint Davies, like I, pay tribute to Interlink for the work that it does. It is an extremely good umbrella body.

Yn fuan ar ôl imi gael fy ethol, cefais y pleser o fynd i seremoni wobrwyo Interlink. Interlink yw mudiad gwirfoddol ymbarél lleol Rhondda Cynon Taf. Wrth dalu teyrnged i’r sector gwirfoddol, talodd Pauline Jarman a Geraint Davies, fel minnau, deyrnged i Interlink am y gwaith a wna. Mae’n gorff ymbarél arbennig o dda.

When I attended that ceremony, it struck me that half the voluntary organisations present—and I talked to every single one—had no paid staff. The others either paid half their staff or had one paid member of staff. When we make a commitment to work with the voluntary sector, it is important to recognise that we are not doing so as equals in terms of power and contribution. We must make a commitment that allows those voices to come into the Assembly as equals. That is why I support Helen Mary Jones’ amendment on the voluntary sector and small voluntary organisations.

Pan euthum i’r seremoni honno, yr hyn a’m trawodd oedd bod hanner y mudiadau gwirfoddol oedd yn bresennol—a bûm yn siarad â phob un ohonynt—heb unrhyw staff cyflog. Yr oedd y lleill un ai’n talu hanner eu staff neu yr oedd ganddynt un aelod staff cyflogedig. Wrth inni ymrwymo i weithio gyda’r sector gwirfoddol, mae’n bwysig cydnabod nad ydym yn gwneud hynny ar sail gydradd o ran grym a chyfraniad. Rhaid inni wneud ymrwymiad sy’n caniatáu i’r lleisiau hynny ddod i’r Cynulliad fel partneriaid cydradd. Dyna pam y cefnogaf welliant Helen Mary Jones ar y sector gwirfoddol a mudiadau gwirfoddol bach.

That is an important challenge for every Assembly Member. We must make this agreement work and establish local relationships with the voluntary sector so that we can understand the views of small groups and see how effectively they feed into large groups. We know, through the people who are working up the voluntary sector scheme on our behalf and on that of the voluntary sector, that all those broad interests are being considered.

Mae hon yn her bwysig i bob Aelod o’r Cynulliad. Rhaid inni wneud i’r cytundeb hwn weithio a sefydlu perthnasau lleol gyda’r sector gwirfoddol fel y gallwn ddeall barn grwpiau bychan a gweld mor effeithiol y maent yn bwydo i mewn i grwpiau mwy. Gwyddom, drwy’r bobl sy’n llunio cynllun y sector gwirfoddol ar ein rhan ni ac ar ran y sector gwirfoddol, fod yr holl fuddiannau eang hynny’n cael ystyriaeth.

For many years, the voluntary sector has struggled for the right to speak and for its financial existence. We must get away from that if we are to move towards an effective sector. The voluntary sector is not a cheap, poor or dependent substitute for the private and public sectors. It is an extra dimension. To borrow a phrase, it is the third way, which must contribute towards life in Wales. We must ensure that it is not a junior partner in this debate.

Am flynyddoedd lawer, mae’r sector gwirfoddol wedi ymdrechu dros yr hawl i siarad a thros ei fodolaeth ariannol. Rhaid inni symud oddi wrth hynny os ydym am gael sector effeithiol. Nid dewis amgen, rhad, tlawd neu ddibynnol, yn lle’r sectorau preifat a chyhoeddus yw’r sector gwirfoddol. Mae’n ddimensiwn ychwanegol. I fenthyg ymadrodd, mae’n drydedd ffordd, y mae’n rhaid iddi gyfrannu at fywyd yng Nghymru. Rhaid inni sicrhau nad partner iau mo’r sector yn y ddadl hon.

I pay tribute to the work of the Wales Council for Voluntary Action since we have been Assembly Members. I am sure that most Members have benefited from their briefings on social exclusion and sustainability, as I have. They have reminded us of the role of the voluntary sector. Considering that we have an obligation to have these schemes, it is important that we continue to remind ourselves of that value.

Talaf deyrnged i waith Cyngor Gweithredu Gwirfoddol Cymru ers inni fod yn Aelodau o’r Cynulliad. Yr wyf yn siwr fod y rhan fwyaf o’r Aelodau wedi elwa o’u deunydd crynhoi ar allgáu cymdeithasol a chynaladwyedd, fel y gwnes innau. Maent wedi ein hatgoffa am rôl y sector gwirfoddol. A chofio bod gorfodaeth arnom i gael y cynlluniau hyn, mae’n bwysig ein bod yn parhau i atgoffa’n hunain o’r gwerth hwnnw.

I know that I will be well lobbied because I ensured that I could have the debate by moving into Interlink as a tenant. Therefore, I can canvass properly the views of the voluntary sector. Today, I present the challenge to all Assembly Members. We must consider the role of the voluntary sector across all our services. We must go out and ensure that we understand what is going on in our constituencies, however large they are. Then, we will make this new partnership work.

Gwn y caf fy lobïo’n helaeth oherwydd sicrheais y gallwn gael y ddadl drwy symud i mewn i Interlink fel tenant. Felly, gallaf ganfasio barn y sector gwirfoddol yn dda. Heddiw, rhoddaf her i holl Aelodau’r Cynulliad. Rhaid inni ystyried rôl y sector gwirfoddol ar draws ein holl wasanaethau. Rhaid inni fynd allan a sicrhau ein bod yn deall beth sy’n digwydd yn ein hetholaethau, pa mor fawr bynnag y bônt. Wedyn, fe wnawn i’r bartneriaeth newydd hon weithio.

Brian Gibbons spoken in English p. 79

Brian Gibbons siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 79

I am involved in about six small voluntary groups in my own community, and had the privilege to attend an all-day fund raising event for cystic fibrosis there last week. It collected over £1,500 from a small community. I have no doubt about the voluntary sector’s key role in improving the quality of life and social involvement.

Yr wyf yn ymwneud â thua chwe grwp gwirfoddol bychan yn fy nghymuned fy hun, a chefais y fraint o fynd i ddigwyddiad codi arian ar ran ffibrosis systig yno, a barai drwy’r dydd, yr wythnos ddiwethaf. Casglwyd dros £1,500 o gymuned fach. Nid oes gennyf unrhyw amheuon am rôl allweddol y sector gwirfoddol yn gwella ansawdd bywyd a chyfranogiad cymdeithasol.

However, we must be cautious. I am concerned about the growing role of larger charities as providers of major parts of social service delivery. When they attended the Health and Social Services Committee, voluntary sector representatives partially agreed that there is poor penetration by larger voluntary sector organisations in many areas of greatest need in our communities. If these organisations become more and more responsible for providing vital services, the more needy communities may lose out. In our agreement with the voluntary sector, we must not forget the statutory sector’s key role. In many parts of our society, the voluntary sector will not be able to provide key services.

Fodd bynnag, rhaid bod yn ofalus. Yr wyf yn pryderu am rôl gynyddol yr elusennau mawr fel darparwyr rhannau sylweddol o’r gwasanaeth cymdeithasol a gyflwynir. Pan ddaethont i’r Pwyllgor Iechyd a Gwasanaethau Cymdeithasol, cytunodd cynrychiolwyr y sector gwirfoddol yn rhannol nad yw’r cyrff mwyaf yn y sector gwirfoddol yn llwyddo i dreiddio llawer i’r mannau lle ceir yr angen mwyaf yn ein cymunedau. Os daw’r cyrff hyn yn fwy a mwy cyfrifol am ddarparu gwasanaethau holl bwysig, gallai’r cymunedau mwy anghenus fod ar eu colled. Yn ein cytundeb gyda’r sector gwirfoddol, rhaid inni beidio ag anghofio rôl allweddol y sector statudol. Mewn llawer rhan o’n cymdeithas, ni fydd y sector gwirfoddol yn gallu darparu gwasanaethau allweddol.

The efforts of those who try to set up self-help groups and voluntary organisations depend on match funding or continuing funding after the initial pump priming exercise. Many of the problems in these communities would not exist if this funding was available. Many communities are unable to get involved in the voluntary sector in a major way because they cannot kick-start their effort or maintain it after the pump priming. I do not deprecate the voluntary sector’s effort but we must have a balanced view on its role. We must remember the statutory sector’s key role, get the balance right and ensure that everybody has equality and equity of access to the basic services that we need.

Mae ymdrechion y rheini sy’n ceisio sefydlu grwpiau hunan-gymorth a mudiadau gwirfoddol yn dibynnu ar gyllid cyfatebol neu gyllido parhaus ar ôl y cyllid sbarduno cychwynnol. Pe bai’r nawdd hwn ar gael ni fyddai llawer o’r problemau yn y cymunedau hyn yn bod. Mae cynifer o gymunedau yn methu â chyfrannu llawer drwy’r sector gwirfoddol gan na allant roi hwb ddigonol i’w hymdrech i’w sefydlu neu i’w chynnal ar ôl i’r cyllid sbarduno ddarfod. Nid wyf yn bychanu ymdrech y sector gwirfoddol ond rhaid inni gael barn gytbwys am ei rôl. Rhaid inni gofio rôl allweddol y sector statudol, cael y cydbwysedd yn iawn a sicrhau cydraddoldeb i bawb a bod pawb yn gallu manteisio’n gydradd ar y gwasanaethau sylfaenol y mae eu hangen arnom.

Mick Bates spoken in English p. 80

Mick Bates siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 80

This is a fitting debate to round off our first term. As an ex-teacher, I could write many good things about what we have heard today. I urge people to support an amendment that was recommended by the voluntary sector and tabled by Kirsty. It was badly misinterpreted at first but has received considerable support since. We should consider establishing a structure for its implementation.

Mae hon yn ddadl addas i ddod â’n tymor cyntaf i ben. Fel cyn-athro, gallwn ysgrifennu llawer o bethau da am yr hyn yr ydym wedi ei glywed heddiw. Anogaf bobl i gefnogi gwelliant a argymhellwyd gan y sector gwirfoddol ac a gyflwynwyd gan Kirsty. Cafodd ei gamddehongli’n ddrwg i ddechrau ond mae wedi cael cryn gefnogaeth ers hynny. Dylem ystyried sefydlu strwythur er mwyn ei roi ar waith.

We have heard how many people work for voluntary groups. I have been a member of a community development group for a long time. Within these groups resides great enterprise, innovation and, above all, independence—they are not ruled by the state. I urge support for the three-year continuity of funding but, at the same time, we must aim to extend that. There are targets in the Compact. It is essential that they are achieved and I am sure that everybody would love to see continuity of funding beyond three years, as I would.

Yr ydym wedi clywed faint o bobl sy’n gweithio i grwpiau gwirfoddol. Bûm yn aelod o grwp datblygu cymunedol ers amser maith. O fewn y grwpiau hyn ceir llawer iawn o fenter, arloesi ac, uwchlaw popeth, annibyniaeth—nid y wladwriaeth sy’n eu rheoli. Anogaf gefnogaeth i batrwm cyllido sy’n ymestyn dros dair blynedd ond, ar yr un pryd, rhaid inni anelu at ymestyn hynny. Mae yna dargedau yn y Compact. Mae’n hanfodol eu bod yn cael eu cyflawni ac yr wyf yn siwr yr hoffai pawb weld parhad yn y drefn gyllido tu hwnt i dair blynedd, fel y byddwn i.

However, one issue has been overlooked. There are great intentions in the opening paragraphs, and recognition from the Government. We have heard mention of grassroots participation. The community development aspect of voluntary effort is truly sustainable development that comes from the people. It is directed at those who feel excluded from society and this should have been emphasised more strongly in the agreement.

Fodd bynnag, mae un peth wedi ei esgeuluso. Ceir bwriadau rhagorol yn y paragraffau cychwynnol, a chydnabyddiaeth gan y Llywodraeth. Clywsom sôn am gyfraniad pobl yn lleol yn eu broydd. Mae’r elfen datblygu cymunedol o fewn ymdrechion gwirfoddol yn ddatblygu gwirioneddol gynaliadwy sy’n dod o du’r bobl. Fe’i hanelir at y rheini sy’n teimlo eu bod wedi eu cau allan o gymdeithas a dylid bod wedi pwysleisio hynny’n gryfach yn y cytundeb.

The agreement consists of methods that can broaden vision and capacity for social change including consultations, advocacy and relationships with local groups. It enables people to tackle problems they face in their communities and aims to empower them to change and develop their skills, knowledge and experience. It seeks to challenge the causes of disadvantage and poverty and offer new opportunities for those lacking choice, power and resources. As we enter the great era of Euro funding and increasing lottery funding, we should use voluntary community development to empower local communities, and thus enable them to democratise the important process of spending European money.

Mae’r cytundeb yn cynnwys dulliau a all ehangu’r weledigaeth a’r potensial ar gyfer newid cymdeithasol gan gynnwys ymgynghori, eiriolaeth a pherthnasau gyda grwpiau lleol. Mae’n galluogi pobl i ymgodymu â’r problemau a wynebant yn eu cymunedau a’i nod yw eu grymuso i newid a datblygu eu sgiliau, gwybodaeth a phrofiad. Mae’n ceisio herio’r hyn sy’n achosi diffyg mantais a thlodi a chynnig cyfleoedd newydd i’r rheini sydd heb ddewis, grym ac adnoddau. Wrth inni gamu i’r cyfnod nawdd o Ewrop a mwy o nawdd loteri, dylem ddefnyddio datblygu cymunedol gwirfoddol i rymuso cymunedau lleol, gan eu galluogi felly i ddemocrateiddio’r broses bwysig o wario’r arian o Ewrop.

I am pleased the report recognises particular disadvantage in rural areas, and I am heartened one of our lottery boards has a rural dimension. I strongly urge, through this Compact, that all our lottery boards include a rural dimension so that rural areas receive the funding they deserve, as is suggested in many cases. I commend the document, but it lacks provision to empower people by developing real compacts with the community development sector.

Yr wyf yn falch bod yr adroddiad yn cydnabod anfantais arbennig yng nghefn gwlad, ac fe’m calonogir fod gan un o’n byrddau loteri ddimensiwn gwledig. Drwy’r Compact hwn, anogaf yn gryf fod ein byrddau loteri i gyd i gynnwys dimensiwn gwledig fel y bydd yr ardaloedd gwledig yn derbyn y nawdd y maent yn ei haeddu, fel yr awgrymir mewn llawer o achosion. Yr wyf yn cymeradwyo’r ddogfen, ond ni cheir ynddi ddarpariaeth i rymuso pobl drwy ddatblygu Compacts gwirioneddol gyda’r sector datblygu cymunedol.

Val Feld spoken in English p. 81

Val Feld siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 81

Many important and helpful comments have been made this afternoon, as we embark on an important new relationship. I have some words of caution. I want to pick up Brian’s point about the size of voluntary organisations, as some of them are effectively big businesses by now. As we become partners in this Compact, it is the Assembly’s responsibility to make sure that the smaller organisations can fully participate. Also, this scheme should not be seen as the only way we work with the voluntary sector. I endorse Jane Davidson’s words about our individual responsibility for that. It is important that we find ways of talking to voluntary organisations, through the Committees and other routes.

Gwnaed llawer o sylwadau pwysig a buddiol y prynhawn yma, wrth inni ddechrau ar berthynas newydd bwysig. Mae gennyf rai geiriau o bwyll. Hoffwn godi pwynt Brian ynglyn â maint y mudiadau gwirfoddol, gan fod rhai ohonynt i bob diben erbyn hyn yn fusnesau mawr. Wrth inni ddod yn bartneriaid yn y Compact hwn, cyfrifoldeb y Cynulliad yw gwneud yn siwr y gall y mudiadau llai gyfranogi’n llawn. Hefyd, ni ddylid tybio mai’r cynllun hwn yw’r unig ffordd inni weithio gyda’r sector gwirfoddol. Ategaf eiriau Jane Davidson am ein cyfrifoldeb unigol dros hynny. Mae’n bwysig ein bod yn canfod ffyrdd i siarad â mudiadau gwirfoddol, drwy’r Pwyllgorau a llwybrau eraill.

I also have questions which I hope can be addressed. How will the Assembly monitor this scheme’s progress? I know that we will appoint people to be part of the partnership. It is important that we have a mechanism through the Assembly or the Committees to monitor the scheme’s progress and effectiveness and to ensure that it is delivering what is needed.

Mae gennyf innau hefyd gwestiynau y gellir rhoi sylw iddynt, gobeithio. Sut bydd y Cynulliad yn monitro hynt y cynllun hwn? Gwn y byddwn yn penodi pobl i fod yn rhan o’r bartneriaeth. Mae’n bwysig bod gennym beirianwaith drwy’r Cynulliad neu’r Pwyllgorau i fonitro hynt ac effeithiolrwydd y cynllun ac i sicrhau ei fod yn cyflwyno’r hyn sy’n ofynnol.

My second question involves the document called ‘A Framework for the National Assembly Voluntary Sector Scheme’. It should be the basis for discussion and negotiation, but seems to be detailed and prescriptive in places. How will the negotiations proceed, and how can we ensure that we are engaged in them in the long term?

Mae fy ail gwestiwn yn ymwneud â’r ddogfen a elwir yn ‘Fframwaith i Gynllun Sector Gwirfoddol y Cynulliad Cenedlaethol’. Dylai fod yn sail ar gyfer trafod a chytuno, ond ymddengys yn fanwl a chyfarwyddol mewn mannau. Sut bydd y trafodaethau’n mynd rhagddynt, a sut medrwn ni fod yn siwr ein bod â rhan ynddynt yn y tymor hir?

Jane Hutt spoken in English p. 82

Jane Hutt siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 82

I did not realise that this is the last debate in the first term of the Assembly. I am glad that we are discussing the voluntary sector. I cannot imagine that anybody in this Chamber is not involved in the voluntary sector—please correct me if I am wrong. So many of us have formally and informally played a role in it over the years. Important points have been made in this constructive debate.

Nid oeddwn yn sylweddoli mai hon yw’r ddadl olaf yn nhymor cyntaf y Cynulliad. Yr wyf yn falch ein bod yn trafod y sector gwirfoddol. Ni allaf ddychmygu bod yna unrhyw un yn y Siambr hon nad oes â chysylltiad â’r sector gwirfoddol—cywirwch fi os wyf yn anghywir. Mae cynifer ohonom wedi chwarae rôl ynddo yn ffurfiol ac anffurfiol dros y blynyddoedd. Gwnaed pwyntiau pwysig yn y ddadl adeiladol hon.

We must consider how the Compact is implemented. We must ensure that this new statutory scheme for the voluntary sector, which as Jane Davidson said is the only one of its kind—they have not got anything like this in Scotland—is implemented. We have to consider the issue raised by Helen and others about local community groups, particularly those that represent the most excluded people in Wales, who do not have a strong voice. We must consider the voluntary sector’s responsibilities, such as representing local and minority groups. The strong links between equality of opportunity and tackling social inclusion are clear. That is on our agenda for discussions with the voluntary sector, along with funding, which is also critical.

Rhaid inni ystyried sut y rhoddir y Compact ar waith. Rhaid inni sicrhau bod y cynllun statudol newydd hwn i’r sector gwirfoddol, yr unig un o’i fath fel y dywedodd Jane Davidson—nid oes ganddynt unrhyw beth tebyg yn yr Alban—yn cael ei roi ar waith. Rhaid inni ystyried y mater a godwyd gan Helen ac eraill am grwpiau cymuned lleol, yn enwedig y rheini sy’n cynrychioli’r bobl sy’n cael eu hallgáu fwyaf yng Nghymru, nad oes ganddynt lais cryf. Rhaid inni ystyried cyfrifoldebau’r sector gwirfoddol, fel cynrychioli grwpiau lleol a lleiafrifol. Mae’r cyswllt cryf rhwng cydraddoldeb cyfle a mynd i’r afael â chynhwyso cymdeithasol yn glir. Mae hynny ar ein rhaglen ar gyfer trafodaethau gyda’r sector gwirfoddol, ynghyd â chyllido, sydd hefyd yn holl bwysig.

I will start by looking at the voluntary sector infrastructure. There are many umbrella and voluntary organisations in Wales at local, regional and national level. We have a strong infrastructure.

Dechreuaf drwy edrych ar seilwaith y sector gwirfoddol. Mae yna lawer o fudiadau ymbarél a gwirfoddol yng Nghymru ar lefel leol, ranbarthol a chenedlaethol. Mae gennym seilwaith cryf.

At local level, voluntary services councils exist in every unitary authority area, funded by the Assembly via the Wales Council for Voluntary Action. We are encouraging them to be involved in the Assembly’s Regional Committees. There are also community agencies, associations and development trusts, which support and develop local communities.

Ar lefel leol, mae cynghorau gwasanaethau gwirfoddol yn bod yn ardal pob awdurdod unedol, a gyllidir gan y Cynulliad drwy Gyngor Gweithredu Gwirfoddol Cymru. Yr ydym yn eu hannog i gyfrannu at Bwyllgorau Rhanbarthol y Cynulliad. Mae yna hefyd asiantaethau, cymdeithasau ac ymddiriedolaethau datblygu cymunedol, sy’n cefnogi a datblygu cymunedau lleol.

At the national level, many networks and organisations represent a number of the 21 categories that have been identified as voluntary and community organisations. These organisations deal with housing, health and social care. We have already discussed Children in Wales, which addressed the Health and Social Services Committee.

Ar y lefel genedlaethol, mae llawer o rwydweithiau a sefydliadau yn cynrychioli nifer o’r 21 categori a restrwyd fel mudiadau gwirfoddol a chymuned. Mae’r sefydliadau hyn yn delio â thai, iechyd a gofal cymdeithasol. Yr ydym eisoes wedi trafod Plant yng Nghymru, a roddodd anerchiad gerbron y Pwyllgor Iechyd a Gwasanaethau Cymdeithasol.

There are networks that deal with social development, the social economy, the black voluntary sector, and women’s organisations. Several national networks and organisations represent the needs of the voluntary sector. It is vital to ensure that local groups have a strong voice. We need to consider how the voluntary sector can help us in our task. They are at the forefront of tackling social exclusion, as they are involved in anti-poverty strategies. We have used examples of their work in our debates on poverty, social exclusion, childcare and the rural partnership. We must ensure that all our debates acknowledge the role of the voluntary sector across all the policy agendas.

Mae yna rwydweithiau sy’n delio â datblygu cymdeithasol, yr economi cymdeithasol, y sector gwirfoddol du, a mudiadau menywod. Mae nifer o rwydweithiau a mudiadau cenedlaethol yn cynrychioli anghenion y sector gwirfoddol. Mae sicrhau bod gan grwpiau lleol lais cryf yn hanfodol. Mae angen inni ystyried sut y gall y sector gwirfoddol ein helpu yn ein tasg. Maent ar flaen y gad yn mynd i’r afael ag allgáu cymdeithasol, fel y maent yn ymwneud â strategaethau gwrth-dlodi. Defnyddiwyd enghreifftiau o’u gwaith gennym yn ein dadleuon ar dlodi, allgáu cymdeithasol, gofal plant a’r bartneriaeth wledig. Rhaid inni sicrhau bod ein holl ddadleuon yn cydnabod rôl y sector gwirfoddol ar draws pob agenda polisi.

Tomorrow morning, the Equal Opportunities Committee will meet for the first time. The voluntary sector and community organisations play a vital role in promoting equal opportunities. We will reflect that in our discussions in that Committee.

Bore yfory, bydd y Pwyllgor Cyfle Cyfartal yn cwrdd am y tro cyntaf. Mae’r sector gwirfoddol a mudiadau cymuned yn chwarae rôl holl bwysig o ran hybu cyfle cyfartal. Byddwn yn adlewyrchu hynny yn ein trafodaethau yn y Pwyllgor hwnnw.

It has a crucial role in reflecting the diversity of Wales and bringing a strong voice, through black and ethnic minority communities, disabled people, women’s organisations and the disenfranchised people of Wales to the Assembly.

Mae ganddo rôl hanfodol i adlewyrchu amrywiaeth Cymru a dod â llais cryf, drwy gymunedau du a lleiafrifoedd ethnig, pobl anabl, mudiadau menywod a phobl ddifreintiedig Cymru, i’r Cynulliad.

We have to recognise the innovation and flexibility of the voluntary sector. It has been so powerful in Wales in tackling not only social and economic problems but discrimination, inequities and inequalities. There are great examples of self-help organisations such as credit unions and tenant participation, as well as the community groups and organisations that Geraint and others referred to.

Rhaid inni gydnabod natur arloesol a hyblygrwydd y sector gwirfoddol. Bu mor rymus yng Nghymru yn mynd i’r afael nid yn unig â phroblemau cymdeithasol ac economaidd ond â chamwahaniaethu, annhegwch ac anghydraddoldeb. Mae yna enghreifftiau gwych o gyrff hunan-gymorth fel undebau credyd a chyfranogiad tenantiaid, yn ogystal â’r grwpiau a’r mudiadau cymuned y cyfeiriodd Geraint ac eraill atynt.

As the first co-ordinator of Welsh Women’s Aid, I am proud to say that I was involved in setting up the first Women’s Aid Refuge in Wales 25 years ago. Now we have a network in every community. Last Friday, we held a huge event ‘Listening to Women’ which Margaret Jay attended. Over 150 women attended and discussed issues. We had a powerful voice from Welsh Women’s Aid. We must consider the issues raised by Pauline, as they relate to policy in housing and local government.

Fel cydlynydd cyntaf Cymorth i Fenywod yng Nghymru, yr wyf yn falch o ddweud imi fod â rhan yn y gwaith o sefydlu Lloches gyntaf Cymorth i Fenywod yng Nghymru 25 mlynedd yn ôl. Bellach, mae gennym rwydwaith ym mhob cymuned. Ddydd Gwener diwethaf, cynhaliwyd achlysur enfawr ‘Gwrando ar Fenywod’, y daeth Margaret Jay iddo. Yr oedd dros 150 o fenywod yn bresennol i drafod y materion dan sylw. Cawsom lais cryf o Cymorth i Fenywod yng Nghymru. Rhaid inni ystyried y pwyntiau a godwyd gan Pauline, yn cyfeirio at bolisi ym maes tai a llywodraeth leol.

Finance is a critical issue for the sector. I want to reassure people, particularly members of the Health and Social Services Committee, that there was concern when we discussed the voluntary sector’s immensely complex budget lines. However, my officials have assured me that we will have a full explanation of voluntary sector funding. We have to move towards three-year funding. I agree with Mick that funding needs to be for longer than three years if possible. That is also true of funding from other organisations, not just the Assembly.

Mae cyllid yn ystyriaeth holl bwysig i’r sector. Hoffwn sicrhau pobl, yn enwedig aelodau’r Pwyllgor Iechyd a Gwasanaethau Cymdeithasol, fod yna bryder wrth inni drafod llinellau eithriadol gymhleth y sector gwirfoddol yn y gyllideb. Fodd bynnag, mae fy swyddogion wedi fy sicrhau y cawn esboniad llawn o gyllid y sector gwirfoddol. Yr ydym wedi dechrau camu tuag at gyllido dros dair blynedd. Cytunaf gyda Mick fod angen cyllido dros fwy na thair blynedd os yw’n bosibl. Mae hynny’n wir hefyd am y nawdd a geir gan sefydliadau eraill, nid dim ond y Cynulliad.

There are some initiatives that fall out over a three-year period, for example, £800,000 has been allocated for millennium volunteers initiatives. You will see a lot of that money in the budget line. That was explained to us this morning. I want to assure the voluntary sector that we are serious about supporting them through funding, not just at a national or all-Wales level, but at a local level. We will ensure that they get funding decisions on time and do not have to suffer the uncertainty that I, having worked in the voluntary sector for so long, know often blights the security of volunteers and voluntary organisations.

Mae yna rai cynlluniau sy’n ymledu dros gyfnod o dair blynedd, er enghraifft, dyrannwyd £800,000 i gynlluniau gwirfoddolwyr y mileniwm. Fe welwch lawer am yr arian hwnnw yn llinell y gyllideb. Eglurwyd hynny inni fore heddiw. Hoffwn sicrhau’r sector gwirfoddol ein bod o ddifrif am eu cefnogi drwy gyllido, nid yn unig ar lefel genedlaethol neu lefel Cymru-gyfan, ond ar lefel leol. Byddwn yn sicrhau eu bod yn cael penderfyniadau cyllido ar amser ac nad oes rhaid iddynt ddioddef yr ansicrwydd sydd, mi wn ar ôl gweithio cyhyd yn y sector gwirfoddol, yn tanseilio sicrwydd gwirfoddolwyr a mudiadau gwirfoddol.

The Wales Council for Voluntary Action, which has been applauded today, plays a key role as a member of the European task force. That refers back to the point that Mick and others made.

Mae Cyngor Gweithredu Gwirfoddol Cymru, sydd wedi ei ganmol yma heddiw, yn chwarae rôl allweddol fel aelod o’r tasglu Ewropeaidd. Mae hynny’n cyfeirio’n ôl at y pwynt a wnaed gan Mick ac eraill.

Helen Mary Jones spoken in English p. 85

Helen Mary Jones siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 85

I apologise if I am jumping the gun, but I raised a point about secondary policy advice to the lottery bodies and I wonder if you—

Ymddiheuraf os wyf yn siarad cyn pryd, ond codais bwynt am gyngor polisi eilaidd i gyrff y loteri a thybed a allech—

Jane Hutt spoken in English p. 85

Jane Hutt siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 85

I am coming to that. I want to acknowledge the voluntary sector’s role in the development of European strategy. The WCVA was involved in the European task force developing the national economic development strategy now under consultation. Voluntary organisations across the board, including those with social economy, training and educational interests, have influenced how we have developed the single programming document. It is vital that the voluntary sector plays an important role in the partnerships that will plan and deliver the objectives of the strategy and programmes.

Yr wyf yn dod at hynny. Yr wyf am gydnabod rôl y sector gwirfoddol o ran datblygu strategaeth Ewropeaidd. Yr oedd y Cyngor Gweithredu â rhan yn y tasglu Ewropeaidd a fu’n datblygu’r strategaeth datblygu economaidd genedlaethol sy’n destun ymgynghori ar hyn o bryd. Mae mudiadau gwirfoddol trwyddynt draw, gan gynnwys y rheini sydd â buddiannau cymdeithasol, economaidd, hyfforddi ac addysgol, wedi dylanwadu ar sut y datblygwyd y ddogfen rhaglen sengl. Mae’n hanfodol bod y sector gwirfoddol yn chwarae rôl bwysig yn y partneriaethau a fydd yn cynllunio a chyflwyno amcanion y strategaeth a’r rhaglenni.

Val Feld, as chair of the Committee on Equality of Opportunity, has made the point that we must strengthen and develop community action and the social economy to tackle our low GDP per head. That is about enabling people to participate, dealing with economic inactivity by allowing people to strengthen their social activity, to return to and participate in the labour market.

Mae Val Feld, fel cadeirydd y Pwyllgor ar Gydraddoldeb Cyfle, wedi gwneud y pwynt fod rhaid inni atgyfnerthu a datblygu gweithredu cymunedol a’r economi cymdeithasol i fynd i’r afael â’n GDP isel y pen. Mae hynny’n golygu galluogi pobl i gymryd rhan, delio â segurdod economaidd drwy ganiatáu i bobl gryfhau eu gweithgarwch cymdeithasol i ddychwelyd i’r farchnad lafur a chymryd rhan ynddi.

The voluntary sector has influenced policy in many other ways, not just on the European front. The Wales Carers Alliance, with which David Melding is involved, has helped influence the carers strategy we will discuss in the Health and Social Services Committee. I acknowledge David’s point about consultation in health and social services. The voluntary sector has a strong role in the local health groups. We have to support them in that and monitor carefully how their voice is heard.

Mae’r sector gwirfoddol wedi dylanwadu ar bolisi mewn llawer ffordd arall, nid dim ond o safbwynt Ewrop. Mae Cynghrair Cynhalwyr Cymru, y mae a wnelo David Melding ag ef, wedi helpu i ddylanwadu ar y strategaeth i gynhalwyr y byddwn yn ei thrafod yn y Pwyllgor Iechyd a Gwasanaethau Cymdeithasol. Cydnabyddaf bwynt David am ymgynghori ym maes iechyd a’r gwasanaethau cymdeithasol. Mae gan y sector gwirfoddol rôl o bwys mewn grwpiau iechyd lleol. Rhaid inni eu cefnogi yn hynny a monitro’n ofalus sut y caiff eu llais ei glywed.

We should also draw attention to the fact that we have compacts and arrangements with local authorities that we must ensure are delivered. ‘Achieving Shared Aims: Working to a Common Agenda’ is a document devised by the voluntary sector and local government. We must ensure that partnership is implemented at all levels, that it is not just warm words but is delivered. Many of you know that the voluntary sector is opening a centre at Baltic House, over the road in Mount Stuart Square. That will be an important link between the Assembly and the voluntary sector, providing an information service to the sector on the Assembly’s work and giving us information and support through the briefings already mentioned.

Dylem hefyd dynnu sylw at y ffaith fod gennym gompactau a threfniadau gyda’r awdurdodau lleol, a rhaid inni sicrhau eu bod yn cael eu cyflawni. Dogfen a luniwyd gan y sector gwirfoddol a llywodraeth leol yw ‘Cyflawni Amcanion Cyffredin: Gweithio i’r Un Agenda’. Rhaid inni sicrhau y rhoddir partneriaeth ar waith ar bob lefel, hynny yw, nad dim ond geiriau cynnes mohoni, ond y caiff ei gwireddu. Gwyr llawer ohonoch bod y sector gwirfoddol yn agor canolfan yn Nhy’r Baltig, ar draws y ffordd yn Sgwâr Mount Stuart. Bydd yn ddolen gyswllt bwysig rhwng y Cynulliad a’r sector gwirfoddol, yn darparu gwasanaeth gwybodaeth i’r sector ar waith y Cynulliad ac yn rhoi gwybodaeth a chefnogaeth inni drwy’r deunydd crynhoi a grybwyllwyd eisoes.

On lottery directions, lottery fund distributors have not yet identified applications or areas that they cannot fund through their own initiatives. There are six existing initiatives. I was formerly the Wales member on the new opportunities fund. I would like to reassure Mick that the role I mentioned came into the spending decisions of the new opportunities fund. It should influence all lottery distributors. Tom Middlehurst has a lead role in links with the lottery distributors. However, every policy committee ought to make that link. We could move down the road of having Wales-only initiatives through policy directions with the lottery board. That could arise in the future and we need to consider that.

O ran cyfarwyddiadau loteri, nid yw dosbarthwyr y cronfeydd loteri eto wedi rhestru’r ceisiadau neu’r meysydd na allant eu cyllido drwy eu cynlluniau eu hunain. Mae chwe chynllun yn bod ar hyn o bryd. Gynt, fi oedd yr aelod dros Gymru ar y gronfa cyfleoedd newydd. Hoffwn sicrhau Mick bod y rôl a grybwyllais wedi bod yn rhan o benderfyniadau gwario’r gronfa cyfleoedd newydd. Dylai ddylanwadu ar yr holl ddosbarthwyr loteri. Mae gan Tom Middlehurst rôl arweiniol yn y cysylltiadau gyda dosbarthwyr y loteri. Fodd bynnag, dylai pob pwyllgor polisi wneud y cyswllt hwnnw. Gallem symud i gyfeiriad cael cynlluniau i Gymru’n unig drwy gyfarwyddiadau polisi gyda bwrdd y loteri. Gallai hynny godi yn y dyfodol ac mae angen inni ystyried hynny.

We need to examine how can we ensure that the voluntary sector influences our policies. I have urged all committees to invite relevant organisations to brief them on their role and contribution. We have done this in the Health and Social Services Committee. As Kirsty mentioned, the Health and Social Care Network came to talk to us, and today Children in Wales gave evidence about the children’s commissioner. We need to ask all committee chairs whether they have involved the voluntary sector. There are networks and organisations representing every area of policy this Assembly is responsible for. It is important that they visit early into work programmes so that they can brief you, not just once but regularly, and help develop and deliver policies. I will write to all committee chairs to see how they are incorporating the voluntary sector’s views and opinions into their policy making as well as their scrutiny and inquiry role.

Mae angen inni edrych ar sut y gallwn sicrhau bod y sector gwirfoddol yn dylanwadu ar ein polisïau. Yr wyf wedi annog pob pwyllgor i wahodd mudiadau perthnasol i’w briffio ar eu rôl a’u cyfraniad. Yr ydym wedi gwneud hynny yn y Pwyllgor Iechyd a Gwasanaethau Cymdeithasol. Fel y soniodd Kirsty, daeth y Rhwydwaith Iechyd a Gofal Cymdeithasol i siarad â ni, a heddiw rhoddodd Plant yng Nghymru dystiolaeth am y comisiynydd plant. Mae angen inni ofyn i bob cadeirydd pwyllgor a ydynt wedi cynnwys y sector gwirfoddol. Mae yna rwydweithiau a mudiadau yn cynrychioli pob maes polisi y mae’r Cynulliad yn gyfrifol amdano. Mae’n bwysig eu bod yn ymweld yn gynnar yn y rhaglenni gwaith fel y gallant eich briffio, nid unwaith ond yn rheolaidd, a helpu i ddatblygu a chyflwyno polisïau. Byddaf yn ysgrifennu at bob cadeirydd pwyllgor i weld sut y maent yn ymgorffori barn a safbwyntiau’r sector gwirfoddol wrth lunio polisi yn ogystal ag yn eu rôl archwilio ac ymholi.

In conclusion, the point Mick made about community development is important. Work is being done on this. Alun Michael referred to policy documents laid in the Library that are part of the Compact process. The voluntary sector was involved in a group working on community development. The work has been done with officials and that will shortly become part of the policy strand of the Compacts. I also agree, and as I am sure do others in this Chamber, that community participation is one of the Assembly’s strong themes. Community development is vital to the lifeblood of the voluntary sector in Wales. I am glad that you have raised this issue and that it will be part of the Compact.

I gloi, mae’r pwynt a wnaed gan Mick am ddatblygu cymunedol yn bwysig. Mae gwaith yn cael ei wneud ar hyn. Cyfeiriodd Alun Michael at ddogfennau polisi a osodwyd yn y Llyfrgell sy’n rhan o broses y Compact. Yr oedd y sector gwirfoddol yn rhan o grwp a fu’n gweithio ar ddatblygu cymunedol. Gwnaed y gwaith gan swyddogion a bydd hynny’n dod yn rhan o linyn polisi’r Compacts cyn bo hir. Cytunaf hefyd, fel y gwna eraill yn y Siambr hon yr wyf yn siwr, fod cyfranogiad cymunedol yn un o themâu cryf y Cynulliad. Mae datblygu cymunedol yn hanfodol i enaid y sector gwirfoddol yng Nghymru. Yr wyf yn falch ichi godi’r mater hwn ac y bydd yn rhan o’r Compact.

I ask you to support this motion. We share the spirit of Kirsty’s amendment. It is about sticking to our promises. We will not be able to wriggle out of our commitment to the voluntary sector. How we work with the voluntary sector is the issue.

Gofynnaf ichi gefnogi’r cynnig hwn. Yr ydym yn rhannu ysbryd gwelliant Kirsty. Mater yw o gadw’n haddewidion. Ni allwn ymryddhau o’n haddewid i’r sector gwirfoddol. Sut y byddwn ni’n gweithio gyda’r sector gwirfoddol yw’r cwestiwn.

Kirsty Williams spoken in English p. 87

Kirsty Williams siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 87

At a recent reception you hosted for the WCVA, did the voluntary sector ask for a formal body to be established? Did they ask you and Andrew to put that in this motion today, or am I mistaken?

Mewn derbyniad diweddar gan y Cyngor Gweithredu lle’r oeddech chi wrth y llyw, a wnaeth y sector gwirfoddol ofyn am sefydlu corff ffurfiol? A ofynnwyd ganddynt i chi ac Andrew gynnwys hynny yn y cynnig hwn heddiw, neu a wyf yn camgymryd?

Jane Hutt spoken in English p. 87

Jane Hutt siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 87

It is a question of wording. One can get hung up on the wording of resolutions. The intention, as I understood it, was that we should get stuck into discussions with the voluntary sector, in a cross party and inclusive way, on how we implement the voluntary sector scheme in statute. We need to meet them and see how to move this forward. We do not need to be prescriptive but I acknowledge the strong requirement from the voluntary sector that we need to get cracking on this. That is why we are here today, why we have this resolution and are setting out timescales. We will meet again in September or October, consult, and implement the scheme from January onwards. This is about how we work in partnership with the voluntary sector. We do not disagree in our intentions, Kirsty. I hope you accept that the resolution is intended to take us forward and to respond to the challenge made to us at that voluntary sector reception.

Mater o eiriad yw. Mae’n bosibl poeni ein pennau am eiriad penderfyniadau. Y bwriad, fel a ddeallais i, oedd y dylem fwrw iddi i drafod gyda’r sector gwirfoddol, mewn ffordd drawsbleidiol a chynhwysol, sut y mae rhoi cynllun y sector gwirfoddol ar waith mewn statud. Rhaid inni gwrdd â hwy i weld sut mae symud hyn ymlaen. Nid oes angen bod yn gyfarwyddol ond cydnabyddaf y gofyniad cryf o du’r sector gwirfoddol ar inni fwrw iddi ar fyrder. Dyna pam yr ydym yma heddiw, pam y mae’r penderfyniad hwn ger ein bron a’n bod yn pennu amserlen. Byddwn yn cwrdd eto ym mis Medi neu Hydref, yn ymgynghori, ac yn rhoi’r cynllun ar waith o fis Ionawr ymlaen. Yr hyn sydd dan sylw yw sut yr ydym i weithio mewn partneriaeth â’r sector gwirfoddol. Nid ydym yn anghytuno yn ein bwriadau, Kirsty. Gobeithiaf eich bod yn derbyn bod y penderfyniad wedi ei fwriadu i’n tywys yn ein blaenau ac i ymateb i’r her a roddwyd inni yn y derbyniad yna gan y sector gwirfoddol.

This is an exciting way forward. It is good that we finish on this note. We embrace the fact that the voluntary sector has a strong and powerful role in supporting us in our work, in revitalising Wales and ensuring that we have a voice that represents people who have been excluded, who have not previously been heard in Government. We take this forward in this resolution and look forward to working with the voluntary sector.

Mae hon yn ffordd gyffrous ymlaen. Da o beth yw gorffen ar y nodyn hwn. Yr ydym yn croesawu’r ffaith bod i’r sector gwirfoddol rôl gref a grymus i’n cefnogi yn ein gwaith, i adfywio Cymru a sicrhau bod gennym lais sy’n cynrychioli pobl sydd wedi eu cau allan, nad ydynt wedi cael clust mewn Llywodraeth o’r blaen. Yr ydym yn symud hyn yn ei flaen yn y penderfyniad hwn ac yn edrych ymlaen at weithio gyda’r sector gwirfoddol.

Dafydd Elis-Thomas Y Llywydd siaradwyd yn Gymraeg t. 88

Dafydd Elis-Thomas The Presiding Officer spoken in Welsh p. 88

Pleidleisiwn yn awr ar y gwelliant cyntaf yn enw Helen Mary Jones.

We shall now vote on the first amendment in the name of Helen Mary Jones.

Gwelliant 1 Helen Mary Jones t. 88

Amendment 1 Helen Mary Jones p. 88

DerbyniwydAdopted Drwy ddangos dwyloShow of hands

Derbyniwyd y gwelliant.

Amendment accepted.

Dafydd Elis-Thomas Y Llywydd heb ei enwi yn y Cofnod siaradwyd yn Gymraeg t. 88

Dafydd Elis-Thomas The Presiding Officer not named in the Record spoken in Welsh p. 88

Pleidleisiwn yn awr ar yr ail welliant yn enw Helen Mary Jones.

We shall now vote on the second amendment in the name of Helen Mary Jones.

Pleidlais t. 88

Vote p. 88

DerbyniwydAdopted Drwy ddangos dwyloShow of hands

Derbyniwyd y gwelliant.

Amendment accepted.

Dafydd Elis-Thomas Y Llywydd heb ei enwi yn y Cofnod siaradwyd yn Gymraeg t. 88

Dafydd Elis-Thomas The Presiding Officer not named in the Record spoken in Welsh p. 88

Pleidleisiwn yn awr ar y gwelliant yn enw Kirsty Williams.

We shall now vote on the amendment in the name of Kirsty Williams.

Gwelliant 2 Kirsty Williams t. 88

Amendment 2 Kirsty Williams p. 88

GwrthodwydRejected Drwy ddangos dwyloShow of hands

Gwrthodwyd y gwelliant.

Amendment rejected.

Dafydd Elis-Thomas Y Llywydd heb ei enwi yn y Cofnod siaradwyd yn Gymraeg t. 88

Dafydd Elis-Thomas The Presiding Officer not named in the Record spoken in Welsh p. 88

Pleidleisiwn yn awr ar y cynnig diwygiedig.

We will now vote on the amended motion.

DerbyniwydAdopted Drwy ddangos dwyloShow of hands

Derbyniwyd y cynnig wedi’i ddiwygio.

Amended motion adopted

Dafydd Elis-Thomas Y Llywydd heb ei enwi yn y Cofnod siaradwyd yn Gymraeg t. 89

Dafydd Elis-Thomas The Presiding Officer not named in the Record spoken in Welsh p. 89

Dyna ddiwedd y sesiwn am heddiw. Diolch yn fawr i swyddogion a staff Swyddfa’r Llywydd sydd wedi gwneud ein gwaith yn bosibl ar hyd ein tymor cyntaf. Dymunaf yn dda i bawb sydd yn cael gwyliau yn ystod y mis nesaf. Prynhawn da i chi i gyd.

That is the end of the session for today. Thank you very much to the officials and staff of the Office of the Presiding Officer who have helped us with our work during this first session. I wish everyone going on holiday during the next month well. Good afternoon to you all.

Daeth y sesiwn i ben am 5:31 p.m.

The session ended at 5:31 p.m.