Cymraeg

Cynulliad Cenedlaethol CymruNational Assembly for Wales · Cyfarfod llawnPlenary sitting

Dydd Mercher 5 Gorffennaf 2000

Wednesday 5 July 2000

DechreuoddMet 14:00 · Daeth i benRose 17:32

Gweld y Cofnod (PDF)View the Record (PDF)

Heb ei wirio â llaw etoNot yet checked by hand

CynnwysContents

  1. 3Cynnig TrefniadolProcedural Motion 1 bleidlais1 vote
  2. 4Ethol i’r Cyngor PartneriaethElection to the Partnership Council 1 bleidlais1 vote
  3. 5Cwestiynau i’r Ysgrifennydd Llywodraeth Leol a ThaiQuestions to the Secretary for Local Government and Housing
    1. 5Cynlluniau Perfformiadau Gwerth GorauBest Value Performance Plans
    2. 7Hysbysebu Swyddi Gwag yn y Wasg LeolAdvertising Job Vacancies in the Local Press
    3. 9Moderneiddio Llywodraeth LeolModernising Local Government
  4. 13Cwestiynau i Ysgrifennydd yr Amgylchedd, Cynllunio a ThrafnidiaethQuestions to the Secretary for the Environment, Planning and Transport
    1. 13Goblygiadau’r Mesur Cefn Gwlad a Hawliau TramwyThe Implications of the Countryside and Rights of Way Bill
    2. 17Gweithredu Cynnig y Cynulliad ar Newid yr HinsawddImplementing the Assembly’s Motion on Climate Change
    3. 18Asesu’r Niwed a Achosir gan Dyrbinau GwyntAssessing the Damage Caused by Wind Turbines
  5. 21Pwyntiau o DrefnPoints of Order
  6. 24Cymeradwyo Rheoliadau Bwydydd a Addaswyd yn Enetig a Bwydydd Newydd (Labelu) (Cymru) 2000Approval of the Genetically Modified and Novel Foods (Labelling) (Wales) Regulations 2000 2 o bleidleisiau2 votes
  7. 29Mabwysiadu Cynllun y Sector GwirfoddolAdoption of the Voluntary Sector Scheme 1 bleidlais1 vote
  8. 40Cymunedau’n GyntafCommunities First 5 o bleidleisiau5 votes
  9. 78Adroddiad y Pwyllgor Addysg Cyn 16 Oed, Ysgolion ac Addysg GynnarReport of the Pre-16 Education, Schools and Early Learning Committee 3 o bleidleisiau3 votes
  10. 100Pwynt o DrefnPoint of Order
  11. 101Dadl FerShort Debate
    1. 101Yr Argyfwng mewn Addysg Gymraeg yn AbertaweThe Crisis in Welsh-Medium Education in Swansea

PleidleisiauVotes

PleidlaisVoteO blaidForYmatalAbstainYn erbynAgainstCanlyniadResult
Cynnig TrefniadolProcedural Motion
Cynnig trefniadolProcedural motion3200DerbyniwydAdopted
Ethol i’r Cyngor PartneriaethElection to the Partnership Council
CynnigMotion3410DerbyniwydAdopted
Cymeradwyo Rheoliadau Bwydydd a Addaswyd yn Enetig a Bwydydd Newydd (Labelu) (Cymru) 2000Approval of the Genetically Modified and Novel Foods (Labelling) (Wales) Regulations 2000
CynnigMotion4400DerbyniwydAdopted
CynnigMotion4300DerbyniwydAdopted
Mabwysiadu Cynllun y Sector GwirfoddolAdoption of the Voluntary Sector Scheme
CynnigMotion4000DerbyniwydAdopted
Cymunedau’n GyntafCommunities First
Gwelliant 1Amendment 14700DerbyniwydAdopted
Gwelliant 2Amendment 24501DerbyniwydAdopted
Gwelliant 3Amendment 325023DerbyniwydAdopted
Gwelliant 4Amendment 44207DerbyniwydAdopted
Cynnig wedi’i ddiwygioAmended motion4900DerbyniwydAdopted
Adroddiad y Pwyllgor Addysg Cyn 16 Oed, Ysgolion ac Addysg GynnarReport of the Pre-16 Education, Schools and Early Learning Committee
Gwelliant 1Amendment 115035GwrthodwydRejected
Gwelliant 3Amendment 315035GwrthodwydRejected
CynnigMotion4802DerbyniwydAdopted

TrafodionProceedings

Cyfarfu’r Cynulliad am 2 p.m. gyda’r Llywydd yn y Gadair.

The Assembly met at 2 p.m. with the Presiding Officer in the Chair.

Cynnig Trefniadol

Procedural Motion

Dafydd Elis-Thomas Y Llywydd siaradwyd yn Gymraeg t. 3

Dafydd Elis-Thomas The Presiding Officer spoken in Welsh p. 3

Galwaf y Trefnydd i gynnig cynnig trefniadol.

I call the Business Secretary to propose a procedural motion.

Andrew Davies The Business Secretary spoken in English p. 3

Andrew Davies Y Trefnydd siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 3

I propose that

Cynigiaf fod

Andrew Davies The Business Secretary (continued) spoken in English p. 3

Andrew Davies Y Trefnydd (parhad) siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 3

I informed Members yesterday in my business statement that I would seek to do this.

Dywedais wrth Aelodau ddoe yn fy natganiad busnes y byddwn yn ceisio gwneud hyn.

Cynnig trefniadol Andrew Davies t. 3

Procedural motion Andrew Davies p. 3

DerbyniwydAdopted O blaidFor 32 YmatalAbstain 0 Yn erbynAgainst 0

Derbyniwyd y cynnig.

Motion adopted.

Sut y pleidleisiodd yr AelodauHow Members voted
O blaidFor (32)
  • Mick Bates
  • Peter Black
  • Nick Bourne
  • Rosemary Butler
  • Christine Chapman
  • Andrew Davies
  • Geraint Davies
  • Janet Davies
  • Jocelyn Davies
  • Richard Edwards
  • Sue Essex
  • Delyth Evans
  • Michael German
  • William Graham
  • John Griffiths
  • Alison Halford
  • Jane Hutt
  • Pauline Jarman
  • Ann Jones
  • Carwyn Jones
  • Helen Mary Jones
  • Peter Law
  • David Lloyd
  • David Melding
  • Tom Middlehurst
  • Jonathan Morgan
  • Lynne Neagle
  • Alun Pugh
  • Jenny Randerson
  • Janet Ryder
  • Owen John Thomas
  • Dafydd Wigley

Ethol i’r Cyngor Partneriaeth

Election to the Partnership Council

Andrew Davies The Business Secretary spoken in English p. 4

Andrew Davies Y Trefnydd siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 4

I propose that

Cynigiaf fod

Cynnig Andrew Davies t. 4

Motion Andrew Davies p. 4

DerbyniwydAdopted O blaidFor 34 YmatalAbstain 1 Yn erbynAgainst 0

Derbyniwyd y cynnig.

Motion adopted.

Sut y pleidleisiodd yr AelodauHow Members voted
O blaidFor (34)
  • Mick Bates
  • Peter Black
  • Nick Bourne
  • Rosemary Butler
  • Christine Chapman
  • Andrew Davies
  • David Davies
  • Geraint Davies
  • Janet Davies
  • Jocelyn Davies
  • Richard Edwards
  • Sue Essex
  • Delyth Evans
  • Michael German
  • Brian Gibbons
  • William Graham
  • John Griffiths
  • Alison Halford
  • Jane Hutt
  • Pauline Jarman
  • Ann Jones
  • Carwyn Jones
  • Helen Mary Jones
  • David Lloyd
  • David Melding
  • Tom Middlehurst
  • Jonathan Morgan
  • Lynne Neagle
  • Alun Pugh
  • Jenny Randerson
  • Janet Ryder
  • Karen Sinclair
  • Owen John Thomas
  • Dafydd Wigley
YmatalAbstain (1)
  • Peter Law

Cwestiynau i’r Ysgrifennydd Llywodraeth Leol a Thai

Questions to the Secretary for Local Government and Housing

Cynlluniau Perfformiadau Gwerth Gorau

Best Value Performance Plans

Q1 Janet Davies spoken in English p. 5

C1 Janet Davies siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 5

How does the Secretary for Local Government and Housing intend to demonstrate best value out of the Best Value performance plans? (OAQ6297)

Sut mae’r Ysgrifennydd Llywodraeth Leol a Thai’n bwriadu cael y gwerth gorau o’r cynlluniau perfformiadau Gwerth Gorau? (OAQ6297)

Peter Law The Secretary for Local Government and Housing spoken in English p. 5

Peter Law Yr Ysgrifennydd Llywodraeth Leol a Thai siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 5

I appreciate your asking this question, Janet, as you are Chair of the Audit Committee. I welcome the fact that all Welsh local authorities now have Best Value performance plans in place. These are essential as a first step in the process that will lead to an assessment of whether these authorities are providing Best Value services. The plans will set out the information required to make an assessment of Best Value, including authorities’ strategic aims, Best Value review timetables and past and future performance information and targets.

Gwerthfawrogaf eich bod yn gofyn y cwestiwn hwn, Janet, a chithau’n Gadeirydd y Pwyllgor Archwilio. Croesawaf y ffaith fod pob awdurdod lleol bellach wedi sefydlu cynlluniau perfformiad Gwerth Gorau. Mae’r rhain yn hanfodol fel cam cyntaf yn y broses a fydd yn arwain at asesu a ydyw’r awdurdodau hyn yn darparu gwasanaethau sydd yn rhoi’r Gwerth Gorau. Bydd y cynlluniau’n amlinellu’r wybodaeth sydd ei hangen i asesu Gwerth Gorau, gan gynnwys nodau strategol awdurdodau, amserlenni adolygu Gwerth Gorau a gwybodaeth a thargedau perfformiad y gorffennol a’r dyfodol.

Janet Davies spoken in English p. 5

Janet Davies siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 5

The best type of legislation is self-policing; that is, the benefits of conforming to the legislation are greater than those of ignoring it. However, Best Value relies on an expensive and increasing bureaucracy to keep councils in line. To what extent can you find a means of obtaining best value in local government service delivery by loosening the straitjacket of red tape created by Westminster legislation under the Department for the Environment, Transport and the Regions—if that department now has a sufficiently sophisticated radar to enable it to see the Assembly?

Mae’r ddeddfwriaeth orau’n ddeddfwriaeth sydd yn ei phlismona’i hun; hynny yw, mae’n fwy manteisiol cydymffurfio â’r ddeddfwriaeth na’i hanwybyddu. Fodd bynnag, mae Gwerth Gorau’n dibynnu ar fiwrocratiaeth gostus a chynyddol i gadw cynghorau yn eu lle. I ba raddau y gallwch gael modd o sicrhau’r gwerth gorau yn narpariaeth gwasanaethau llywodraeth leol drwy lacio’r rhwymau biwrocrataidd a grëwyd gan ddeddfwriaeth San Steffan dan Adran yr Amgylchedd, Trafnidiaeth a’r Rhanbarthau—os oes gan yr Adran honno radar digon soffistigedig erbyn hyn i’w galluogi i weld y Cynulliad?

Peter Law spoken in English p. 5

Peter Law siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 5

I appreciate that last point. I want to loosen local government from straitjackets and red tape as much as possible. That is why this Assembly is right in wanting to work in partnership with local government for the good of everyone in Wales. However, Best Value is an important part of modernising local government. It will cost, but the savings that we make from the cost effectiveness—

Gwerthfawrogaf y pwynt olaf hwnnw. Mae arnaf eisiau rhyddhau llywodraeth leol o gaethiwed biwrocratiaeth gymaint ag sydd yn bosibl. Dyna pam y mae’r Cynulliad hwn yn iawn i fynnu cydweithio gyda llywodraeth leol er lles pawb yng Nghymru. Fodd bynnag, mae Gwerth Gorau’n rhan bwysig o foderneiddio llywodraeth leol. Bydd yn costio, ond bydd yr arbedion a wnawn yn sgîl cost-effeithiolrwydd—

Dafydd Elis-Thomas The Presiding Officer spoken in English p. 6

Dafydd Elis-Thomas Y Llywydd siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 6

Order. Peter Law is answering questions. Could I have order from the Conservative front bench please?

Trefn. Mae Peter Law yn ateb cwestiynau. A gaf i drefn gan fainc flaen y Ceidwadwyr os gwelwch yn dda?

Peter Law spoken in English p. 6

Peter Law siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 6

I appreciate that, Llywydd. I have always failed to get respect from them.

Gwerthfawrogaf hynny, Lywydd. Yr wyf bob amser wedi methu â chael parch ganddynt.

It is important. It has a cost, but the savings that will be made over time will make it a cost-effective measure which will help our partners in local government improve their services to the people of Wales.

Mae’n bwysig. Mae cost iddo, ond bydd yr arbedion a wneir dros amser yn ei wneud yn fesur cost-effeithiol a fydd yn helpu’n partneriaid mewn llywodraeth leol i wella’u gwasanaethau i bobl Cymru.

Michael German spoken in English p. 6

Michael German siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 6

Do you agree that we are being too prescriptive about Best Value? How would you ensure that there is a degree of flexibility for local authorities, so that they could decide for themselves what their important targets are?

A ydych yn cytuno ein bod yn rhy gyfarwyddol ynghylch Gwerth Gorau? Sut y byddech chi’n sicrhau y ceir rhyw radd o hyblygrwydd i awdurdodau lleol, fel y gallent benderfynu drostynt eu hunain beth yw eu targedau pwysig?

Peter Law spoken in English p. 6

Peter Law siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 6

I do not agree that we are being too prescriptive. We consulted fully on best value. The committee has looked at it carefully. I have taken the views of the Committee into account—not everyone agrees with it, by any means. We consulted widely with local government and other associated organisations. We must go through this process and we will review the situation as we go, together with the Welsh Local Government Association and Audit Commission, which is charged with dealing with Best Value. As time goes on we will see whether it is too prescriptive. My present view is that it is right that we look for better value from our services for local government, and a greater degree of cost-effectiveness.

Nid wyf yn cytuno ein bod yn rhy gyfarwyddol. Ymgynghorwyd yn llawn ar fater Gwerth Gorau. Edrychodd y Pwyllgor arno’n ofalus. Ystyriais innau farn y Pwyllgor—nid pawb sydd yn cytuno ag ef, o bell ffordd. Ymgynghorwyd yn eang â llywodraeth leol a sefydliadau eraill cysylltiedig. Rhaid inni fynd drwy’r broses hon ac archwiliwn y sefyllfa wrth inni fynd yn ein blaen, ar y cyd â Chymdeithas Llywodraeth Leol Cymru a’r Comisiwn Archwilio, sydd yn gyfrifol am ddelio â Gwerth Gorau. Ymhen amser cawn weld a ydyw’n rhy gyfarwyddol. Fy marn ar hyn o bryd yw ein bod yn iawn i ni edrych am well gwerth gan ein gwasanaethau i lywodraeth leol, a mwy o gost-effeithiolrwydd.

William Graham spoken in English p. 6

William Graham siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 6

Can you explain how non-uniform performance indicators will allow anything more than the most basic performance comparisons between authorities?

A allwch egluro sut y bydd dangosyddion perfformiad nad ydynt yn unffurf yn caniatáu unrhyw beth mwy na’r cymariaethau perfformiad mwyaf elfennol rhwng awdurdodau?

Peter Law spoken in English p. 6

Peter Law siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 6

I accept that they are not ideal. We had to use a considerable number of performance indicators from England. I would have liked more from Wales. However, that information was not available to us. We have a working party sitting at the moment, which works together with partners in Welsh local government, that will bring together the basic performance indicators that we will be able to use from next year. This will give a much sharper and fairer picture for local authorities in Wales operating in support of the best value regime.

Derbyniaf nad ydynt yn ddelfrydol. Bu raid inni ddefnyddio cryn nifer o ddangosyddion perfformiad o Loegr. Buaswn i wedi hoffi mwy o Gymru. Fodd bynnag, nid oedd yr wybodaeth honno ar gael inni. Mae gennym weithgor yn eistedd ar hyn o bryd, sydd yn cydweithio â phartneriaid mewn llywodraeth leol yng Nghymru, er mwyn casglu ynghyd y dangosyddion perfformiad sylfaenol y byddwn yn gallu’u defnyddio o’r flwyddyn nesaf ymlaen. Bydd hyn yn rhoi darlun llawer cliriach a thecach i awdurdodau lleol yng Nghymru i gefnogi’r drefn gwerth gorau.

Hysbysebu Swyddi Gwag yn y Wasg Leol

Advertising Job Vacancies in the Local Press

Q2 Owen John Thomas spoken in English p. 7

C2 Owen John Thomas siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 7

What plans does Peter Law have to ensure that local authorities advertise job vacancies in the local press? (OAQ6238)

Pa gynlluniau sydd gan Peter Law i sicrhau bod awdurdodau lleol yn hysbysebu swyddi gwag yn y wasg leol? (OAQ6238)

Peter Law spoken in English p. 7

Peter Law siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 7

That is a matter for local authorities. However, as public employers I expect them to advertise vacancies by some means.

Mater i awdurdodau lleol yw hynny. Fodd bynnag, fel cyflogwyr cyhoeddus disgwyliaf iddynt hysbysebu swyddi mewn rhyw fodd.

Owen John Thomas spoken in English p. 7

Owen John Thomas siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 7

Cardiff’s wealth sprang from the valleys that converge upon it. Today tens of thousands of people come from the Valleys to work in the city that their forefathers helped to build. The future prosperity of South Wales Central—

Tarddodd cyfoeth Caerdydd o’r cymoedd sydd yn cydgyfeirio iddo. Heddiw daw degau o filoedd o bobl o’r Cymoedd i weithio yn y ddinas yr helpodd eu cyndadau i’w hadeiladu. Mae ffyniant Canol De Cymru yn y dyfodol—

Dafydd Elis-Thomas Y Llywydd siaradwyd yn Gymraeg t. 7

Dafydd Elis-Thomas The Presiding Officer spoken in Welsh p. 7

Trefn. A oes gennych chi gwestiwn?

Order. Do you have a question?

Owen John Thomas siaradwyd yn Gymraeg ac yn Saesneg t. 7

Owen John Thomas spoken in Welsh and English p. 7

Mae’r cwestiwn yn dod.

in Welsh The question is coming.

The future prosperity of South Wales Central depends upon close co-operation between its various local authorities. However, excluding people from the Valleys and the Vale of Glamorgan from full—

yn Saesneg Mae ffyniant Canol De Cymru yn y dyfodol yn dibynnu ar gydweithrediad agos rhwng ei wahanol awdurdodau lleol. Fodd bynnag, mae cau pobl y Cymoedd a Bro Morgannwg allan o—

Dafydd Elis-Thomas The Presiding Officer spoken in English p. 7

Dafydd Elis-Thomas Y Llywydd siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 7

Order. I ask for a question, not a speech.

Trefn. Gofynnaf am gwestiwn, nid araith.

Owen John Thomas spoken in English p. 7

Owen John Thomas siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 7

What are your plans to encourage closer co-operation between the local authorities of the Cardiff region?

Beth yw eich cynlluniau i annog cydweithredu agosach rhwng awdurdodau lleol rhanbarth Caerdydd?

Peter Law spoken in English p. 7

Peter Law siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 7

That question was certainly best value, Owen John. Bringing this up in the Chamber is using a back-door method: you should pursue the matter with Cardiff City and County Council. I am satisfied that it advertises its available jobs publicly. It is not a matter with which I can deal any further. I am sure that it has done a good job in the city. I think that it is inappropriate to pick on this one issue, which is not a matter for the Assembly.

Yr oedd y cwestiwn hwnnw yn sicr yn rhoi gwerth gorau, Owen John. Defnyddio dull drws-cefn yw codi hyn yn y Siambr: dylech godi’r mater gyda Chyngor Dinas a Sir Caerdydd. Yr wyf yn fodlon ei fod yn hysbysebu’i swyddi gweigion yn gyhoeddus. Nid yw’n fater y gallaf i ddelio ymhellach ag ef. Yr wyf yn siŵr ei fod wedi gwneud gwaith da yn y ddinas. Yr wyf o’r farn ei bod yn amhriodol pigo ar yr un mater hwn, nad yw’n fater i’r Cynulliad.

Jonathan Morgan spoken in English p. 8

Jonathan Morgan siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 8

I think that it is appropriate. Does it not concern you that job advertisements, particularly in the capital city, are only placed in the spin-doctored newspaper that the leader of the council himself puts together—a newspaper that does not reach every household in the city? How can you expect available jobs to be publicised as widely as possible when the advertisements are in a newspaper that is published by Cardiff council?

Credaf ei bod yn briodol. Onid ydych yn pryderu nad yw hysbysebion am swyddi, yn enwedig yn y brifddinas, ddim ond yn cael eu gosod yn y papur newydd sbin-ddoctoredig y mae arweinydd y cyngor ei hun yn ei roi at ei gilydd—papur newydd nad yw hyd yn oed yn cyrraedd pob aelwyd yn y ddinas? Sut y gallwch chi ddisgwyl y cyhoeddusrwydd mwyaf posibl i’r swyddi sydd ar gael pan fo’r hysbysebion mewn papur newydd a gyhoeddir gan gyngor Caerdydd?

Peter Law spoken in English p. 8

Peter Law siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 8

Cardiff council made its decision, based on the information that it had before it. We do not need anybody from the Tory Party to talk about spin-doctors. Not everybody reads what you call ‘the daily press’, whether that be the evening or daily papers. Therefore the council decided to deal with this matter in the way which it felt most appropriate. I remind you that it is democratically elected by the people of Cardiff and the surrounding area. It has a mandate from the people to govern local government in Cardiff. The matter should be left to it, which is why power has been deveolved to it to employ staff to run its services.

Gwnaeth cyngor Caerdydd ei benderfyniad, ar sail yr wybodaeth a oedd ger ei fron. Nid oes arnom angen neb o’r Blaid Dorïaidd i sôn am sbin-ddoctoriaid. Nid pawb sydd yn darllen yr hyn a alwch chi ‘y wasg ddyddiol’, boed yn bapurau nos neu ddyddiol. Felly penderfynodd y cyngor ddelio â’r mater hwn yn y ffordd y teimlai a fyddai fwyaf priodol. Fe’ch atgoffaf ei fod wedi’i ethol yn ddemocrataidd gan bobl Caerdydd a’r cylch. Mae ganddo fandad gan y bobl i reoli llywodraeth leol yng Nghaerdydd. Dylid gadael y mater i’r cyngor; dyna pam y datganolwyd y grym iddo gyflogi staff i redeg ei wasanaethau.

Jenny Randerson spoken in English p. 8

Jenny Randerson siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 8

On that last point, it had a mandate to govern in a different way from that in which it has chosen to govern. Do you accept that it is a matter of great concern that the decision to advertise in The Capital Times was not subject to public financial scrutiny and was not reported to and decided by the council as a whole, but was made in secret by the cabinet? Is it not an indictment of the new system of cabinet government when such major decisions, with implications beyond Cardiff, are made in secret?

Ar y pwynt olaf hwnnw, yr oedd ganddo fandad i lywodraethu mewn ffordd wahanol i’r ffordd a ddewisodd. A ydych yn derbyn ei fod yn destun cryn bryder na fu’r penderfyniad i hysbysebu yn The Capital Times yn destun archwiliad ariannol cyhoeddus ac na chafodd ei adrodd i’r cyngor cyfan a’i benderfynu ganddo, ond yn hytrach ei wneud yn y dirgel gan y cabinet? Onid yw’n gollfarn ar y system newydd o lywodraeth drwy gabinet pan wneir penderfyniadau pwysig o’r fath, sydd â goblygiadau y tu hwnt i Gaerdydd, yn y dirgel?

Peter Law spoken in English p. 9

Peter Law siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 9

It is amazing that so many Assembly Members are spending this important time, when I am speaking in a forum for the whole of Wales, talking about how Cardiff City and County Council advertises jobs. It is an abuse of the opportunity that you have to scrutinise the work that I do for you as the Secretary for Local Government and Housing, particularly as I do not have control over the council’s employment practices. The council is in order. It is answerable to the district auditor. This has nothing to do with cabinet scrutiny. Whether the council’s cabinet has conformed to the mandate that it was given—and with respect, Jenny, your opinion is subjective—the people of Cardiff elected the council members to do a job. They have concluded that they wish to advertise in that way, which is a matter for them to justify to their electorate. I am satisfied that they are doing the right thing.

Rhyfeddaf fod cynifer o Aelodau’r Cynulliad yn treulio’r amser pwysig hwn, a minnau’n llefaru mewn fforwm dros Gymru gyfan, yn siarad am y ffordd y mae Cyngor Dinas a Sir Caerdydd yn hysbysebu swyddi. Yr ydych yn camddefnyddio’r cyfle sydd gennych i archwilio’r gwaith a wnaf drosoch fel Ysgrifennydd Llywodraeth Leol a Thai, yn enwedig gan nad oes gennyf reolaeth dros arferion cyflogi’r cyngor. Mae’r cyngor mewn trefn. Mae’n atebol i’r archwilydd dosbarth. Nid oes a wnelo hyn ddim oll ag archwiliad cabinet. P’run ai y cydymffurfiodd cabinet y cyngor â’r mandad a roddwyd iddo—a gyda phob parch, Jenny, mae’ch barn chi’n oddrychol—etholodd pobl Caerdydd aelodau’r Cyngor i gyflawni gwaith. Maent wedi penderfynu eu bod am hysbysebu yn y modd hwnnw, sydd yn fater iddynt hwy i’w gyfiawnhau i’w hetholwyr. Yr wyf yn fodlon eu bod yn gwneud y peth iawn.

Moderneiddio Llywodraeth Leol

Modernising Local Government

Q3 Richard Edwards spoken in English p. 9

C3 Richard Edwards siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 9

Will Peter Law make a statement on the modernisation of local government in Wales? (OAQ6281)

A wnaiff Peter Law ddatganiad ar foderneiddio llywodraeth leol yng Nghymru? (OAQ6281)

Peter Law spoken in English p. 9

Peter Law siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 9

Your question follows on nicely, Richard. The modernisation of local government in Wales is being addressed through Best Value and the provisions of the Local Government Bill. This introduced new powers and duties for local authorities in relation to community leadership and a requirement to introduce new political management arrangements and codes of conduct. It will require all local authorities to establish standards committees and will give the Commission for Local Administration in Wales a role in overseeing compliance with the code.

Mae’ch cwestiwn yn dilyn yn daclus, Richard. Rhoddir sylw i foderneiddio llywodraeth leol yng Nghymru drwy’r Gwerth Gorau a darpariaethau Mesur Llywodraeth Leol. Cyflwynodd hwn bwerau a dyletswyddau newydd i awdurdodau lleol yng nghyswllt arweinyddiaeth gymunedol a gofyniad i gyflwyno trefniadau rheoli gwleidyddol a chodau ymddygiad newydd. Bydd yn ofynnol ar i bob awdurdod lleol sefydlu pwyllgorau safonau a bydd yn rhoi rôl i’r Comisiwn Gweinyddiaeth Leol yng Nghymru o ran sicrhau y cydymffurfir â’r cod.

Richard Edwards spoken in English p. 9

Richard Edwards siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 9

Do you share my reservations about a cabinet system in local government and, in particular, do you accept that a cabinet’s meeting in camera is inappropriate? Whereas the Assembly can be fairly likened to a goldfish bowl, some local authorities are definitely not. Cabinet meetings behind closed doors will lead to even less transparency and accountability.

A ydych yn rhannu fy amheuon ynglŷn â system gabinet mewn llywodraeth leol ac, yn enwedig, a ydych yn derbyn ei bod yn amhriodol i gabinet gyfarfod yn y dirgel? Tra gellir cymharu’r Cynulliad yn deg â phowlen bysgod aur, yn bendant nid yw hynny’n wir am rai awdurdodau lleol. Bydd cyfarfodydd cabinet y tu ôl i ddrysau caeedig yn arwain at lai fyth o dryloywder ac atebolrwydd.

Peter Law spoken in English p. 10

Peter Law siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 10

I do not share your concern about cabinet systems. Local government must adapt its ways of working in modern times. The old committee system does not lend itself to timely decision making or effective accountability. If local government has managed with that system, it has been in spite of it rather than because of it. Openness and accountability and the scrutiny to which my cabinet colleagues and I are regularly subjected is to be welcomed. That is transparency. That is why it is right, and local government supports that.

Ni rannaf eich pryder ynghylch systemau cabinet. Rhaid i lywodraeth leol addasu ei ffyrdd o weithio yn yr oes sydd ohoni. Nid yw’r hen drefn bwyllgorau’n ddelfrydol ar gyfer gwneud penderfyniadau amserol nac atebolrwydd effeithiol. Os llwyddodd llywodraeth leol gyda’r drefn honno, er ei gwaethaf y bu hynny ac nid o’i herwydd. Mae bod yn agored ac yn atebol a derbyn yr archwiliadau a wneir arnaf fi a’m cyd-aelodau ar y cabinet yn rheolaidd yn rhywbeth i’w groesawu. Dyna beth yw tryloywder. Dyna pam y mae’n iawn, ac mae llywodraeth leol yn cefnogi hynny.

Janet Ryder spoken in English p. 10

Janet Ryder siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 10

This is tied in with the Local Government Bill that is currently before Parliament, on which you made a statement yesterday. What plans do you have to hold discussions with David Hanson, the Parliamentary Under-Secretary of State for Wales, who stated last night that the amendments reducing the National Assembly’s power in the modernising process

Mae a wnelo hyn â’r Mesur Llywodraeth Leol sydd ger bron y Senedd ar hyn o bryd, y gwnaethoch ddatganiad arno ddoe. Pa gynlluniau sydd gennych i gynnal trafodaethau gyda David Hanson, Is-Ysgrifennydd Gwladol Seneddol Cymru, a ddywedodd neithiwr fod y gwelliannau sydd yn lleihau grym y Cynulliad Cenedlaethol yn y broses foderneiddio

‘represent a sensible division of responsibility between the National Assembly and Parliament’.

‘yn cynrychioli rhaniad synhwyrol o gyfrifoldeb rhwng y Cynulliad Cenedlaethol a’r Senedd’.

What discussions will you have with your Labour colleague on what powers have been devolved to this body and on how we will develop them in Wales?

Pa drafodaethau a gewch chi gyda’ch cyd-aelod Llafur ar ba rymoedd a ddatganolwyd i’r corff hwn ac ar sut y’u datblygwn hwy yng Nghymru?

Peter Law spoken in English p. 10

Peter Law siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 10

I repeat what I said yesterday, that I will have meaningful discussions with my colleague David Hanson and, if necessary, with the Secretary of State for Wales—although I expect that the First Secretary will take that up. We will discuss the opportunity to use the avenue that has been built into clause 6 for us to have more plans, which we feel should have the power to amend, built in by schedule of Parliament to that clause. We have the opportunity to do that through that clause, the Parliament and the Secretary of State. This is not how I wanted to do it. As I said, this is not my choice, but that is what is before us. However, we have that opportunity and I am sure that David Hanson is committed to working with the Assembly to ensure that we have the opportunities that we should.

Ailadroddaf yr hyn a ddywedais ddoe, sef y caf drafodaethau ystyrlon gyda’m cyd-aelod David Hanson ac, os bydd angen, gydag Ysgrifennydd Gwladol Cymru—er y disgwyliaf i’r Prif Ysgrifennydd ymgymryd â hynny. Fe drafodwn y cyfle i ddefnyddio’r adwy a adeiladwyd i mewn i gymal 6 inni gael mwy o gynlluniau, y teimlwn y dylent gael y pŵer i ddiwygio, wedi’u hadeiladu i mewn i’r cymal hwnnw drwy atodlen Seneddol. Mae gennym y cyfle i wneud hynny drwy’r cymal hwnnw, y Senedd a’r Ysgrifennydd Gwladol. Nid dyma sut yr oeddwn wedi dymuno ei wneud. Fel y dywedais, nid fy newis i yw hwn, ond dyna sydd o’n blaenau. Fodd bynnag, mae’r cyfle hwnnw gennym ac yr wyf yn siŵr bod David Hanson wedi ymrwymo i weithio gyda’r Cynulliad i sicrhau y cawn y cyfleoedd y dylem eu cael.

David Davies spoken in English p. 11

David Davies siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 11

Will Peter Law ensure that the additional costs of modernisation are handed back to local authorities, which are forced into doing this? Will he also ensure that the committees undertake a proper scrutiny role and do not simply discuss what the ruling party’s chairman expects them to discuss? Does he regret that local authorities will not be allowed to keep the committee structure even if they want to do so? Will he take a leaf out of the book of some of his Westminster colleagues who are offering counselling to Labour Members of Parliament unlikely to win their seats again, because many Labour councillors will lose theirs at the next election?

A wnaiff Peter Law sicrhau y caiff costau ychwanegol moderneiddio eu trosglwyddo’n ôl i awdurdodau lleol, sydd dan orfodaeth i wneud hyn? A wnaiff sicrhau hefyd fod y pwyllgorau’n ymgymryd â rôl archwilio go iawn ac nid dim ond yn trafod yr hyn y mae cadeirydd y blaid lywodraethol yn disgwyl iddynt ei drafod? A ydyw’n edifar ganddo na chaniateir i awdurdodau lleol gadw’r strwythur pwyllgorau hyd yn oed os dymunant wneud hynny? A wnaiff gymryd dalen o lyfr rhai o’i gyd-aelodau yn San Steffan sydd yn cynnig cwnsela i Aelodau Seneddol Llafur sydd yn annhebygol o ennill eu seddau eto, oherwydd bydd llawer o gynghorwyr Llafur yn colli’u seddau hwy yn yr etholiad nesaf?

Peter Law spoken in English p. 11

Peter Law siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 11

It is easy to say that when you are the one directly-elected Conservative Member in the midst of eight list Members, whose presence here is thanks to the Labour Government. You should remember that. I hope that the Conservatives say their prayers every night. [CONSERVATIVE ASSEMBLY MEMBERS: ‘Seven.’]

Mae’n hawdd dweud hynny pan mai chi yw’r unig Aelod Ceidwadol a etholwyd yn uniongyrchol ymhlith wyth o Aelodau rhestr, sydd yma diolch i’r Llywodraeth Lafur. Dylech gofio hynny. Gobeithio bod y Ceidwadwyr yn dweud eu pader bob nos. [AELODAU CEIDWADOL Y CYNULLIAD: ‘Saith’.]

Seven list Members with one missing presumed lost, but we regard that one as a Tory.

Saith Aelod rhestr gydag un wedi mynd ar gyfeiliorn, ond cyfrifwn hwnnw’n Dori.

David Davies was present at a meeting that I attended this morning. An anaesthetic is usually necessary before a meeting with David.

Yr oedd David Davies yn bresennol mewn cyfarfod a fynychais y bore yma. Fel arfer mae angen anesthetig cyn cyfarfod gyda David.

I will try my best to answer. As far as I am concerned, we have the opportunity to ensure that there is effective scrutiny in Wales. I will present proposed principles for regulations to the Committee shortly for consideration, before undertaking outside consultation on the way in which we operate local government cabinets in Wales. That matter will be consulted on fully. I would not expect any party to take advantage of any link with the chairperson of a scrutiny committee. The chairperson is there to scrutinise on behalf of the general public, immaterial of party political affiliation. That message has been made clear by Tony Blair. I hope that this is also true of other parties. That is the way forward as regards openness and accountability. We will have the opportunity to deal with cabinet openness in Wales in our own way. The decision belongs to us, not to the DETR.

Gwnaf fy ngorau i ateb. Hyd y gwelaf fi, mae’r cyfle gennym i sicrhau y ceir archwilio effeithiol yng Nghymru. Cyn hir, cyflwynaf egwyddorion a gynigir ar gyfer rheoliadau i’r Pwyllgor i’w hystyried, cyn cynnal ymgynghoriad allanol ar y ffordd y gweithredwn gabinetau llywodraeth leol yng Nghymru. Ymgynghorir yn llawn ar y mater hwnnw. Ni fyddwn i’n disgwyl i unrhyw blaid gymryd mantais o unrhyw gysylltiad gyda chadeirydd pwyllgor archwilio. Mae’r cadeirydd yno i archwilio ar ran y cyhoedd, ni waeth beth fo’i liwiau gwleidyddol. Gwnaethpwyd y neges honno’n glir gan Tony Blair. Gobeithio bod hyn yn wir am y pleidiau eraill hefyd. Dyna’r ffordd ymlaen o ran bod yn agored ac yn atebol. Cawn y cyfle i ymdrin â chyfarfodydd cabinet agored yng Nghymru yn ein ffordd ein hun. Ni biau’r penderfyniad, nid Adran yr Amgylchedd, Trafnidiaeth a’r Rhanbarthau.

Peter Black spoken in English p. 12

Peter Black siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 12

I declare an interest as a member of Swansea City and County Council.

Datganaf fuddiant fel aelod o Gyngor Dinas a Sir Abertawe.

Will you, Peter, follow the example of your friend and colleague John Prescott, in issuing regulations for the modernisation of local government, which call on cabinet meetings that take decisions to meet in public? Do you accept that that is a sensible way forward given the tradition of openness and accountability in local government?

A wnewch chi, Peter, ddilyn esiampl eich cyfaill a’ch cydweithiwr John Prescott, drwy gyhoeddi rheoliadau ar gyfer moderneiddio llywodraeth leol, yn galw ar i gyfarfodydd cabinet sydd yn gwneud penderfyniadau gyfarfod yn gyhoeddus? A dderbyniwch fod hyn yn ffordd synhwyrol ymlaen o gofio traddodiad agored ac atebol llywodraeth leol?

Peter Law spoken in English p. 12

Peter Law siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 12

I would like to see as much openness as possible, Peter. I would want you to play a part in the consultation, as you usually do, in deciding how to draft these regulations. They have not been drafted as yet, and this gives us an opportunity. I do not want to be, and will not be, dictated to by the DETR. It is interesting to note that there was an official from the DETR present in the public gallery during yesterday’s Plenary listening to my statement. The official was therefore able to take it back to the DETR. I do not want anybody to tell us what to do because this is a new era in which we decide what is right for Wales. You will play a part in that. I would like as much openness as possible, not only in the scrutiny committee, but also in the overview committees, in the cabinets, and in other places, to make them as accountable as possible. Some things will have to be dealt with in private by cabinets because of personnel matters, and so on. We must be realistic about that. We have a chance to craft what is necessary for Wales by working with the Welsh Local Government Association. I am sure that we will come up with a good scheme.

Hoffwn weld penderfyniadau mor agored ag sydd yn bosibl, Peter. Hoffwn i chi chwarae rhan yn yr ymgynghori, fel y gwnewch fel arfer, wrth benderfynu sut i ddrafftio’r rheoliadau hyn. Nid ydynt wedi’u drafftio eto, a rhydd hyn gyfle inni. Nid oes arnaf eisiau, ac ni wnaf, ddilyn cyfarwyddyd Adran yr Amgylchedd. Mae’n ddiddorol nodi fod swyddog o’r Adran yn bresennol yn yr oriel gyhoeddus yn y Cyfarfod Llawn ddoe yn gwrando ar fy natganiad. Yr oedd y swyddog felly’n gallu mynd ag ef yn ôl i Adran yr Amgylchedd, Trafnidiaeth a’r Rhanbarthau. Nid oes arnaf eisiau i neb ddweud wrthym beth i’w wneud oherwydd mae hon yn oes newydd lle mai ni sydd yn penderfynu beth sydd yn iawn i Gymru. Byddwch chi’n chwarae rhan yn hynny. Hoffwn fod mor agored ag sydd yn bosibl, nid yn unig yn y pwyllgor archwilio, ond hefyd yn y pwyllgorau goruchwylio, y cabinetau, ac mewn mannau eraill, i sicrhau eu bod mor atebol ag sydd yn bosibl. Bydd yn rhaid delio â rhai pethau’n breifat gan gabinet oherwydd materion personél, ac ati. Rhaid inni fod yn realistig am hynny. Mae gennym gyfle i saernïo yr hyn sydd yn angenrheidiol i Gymru drwy weithio gyda Chymdeithas Llywodraeth Leol Cymru. Yr wyf yn siŵr y llwyddwn i gyflwyno cynllun da.

Cwestiynau i Ysgrifennydd yr Amgylchedd, Cynllunio a Thrafnidiaeth

Questions to the Secretary for the Environment, Planning and Transport

Goblygiadau’r Mesur Cefn Gwlad a Hawliau Tramwy

The Implications of the Countryside and Rights of Way Bill

Q1 Richard Edwards spoken in English p. 13

C1 Richard Edwards siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 13

Will the Secretary for the Environment, Planning and Transport make a statement on the implications for Wales of the Countryside and Rights of Way Bill? (OAQ6261)

A wnaiff Ysgrifennydd yr Amgylchedd, Cynllunio a Thrafnidiaeth ddatganiad ar oblygiadau’r Mesur Cefn Gwlad a Hawliau Tramwy i Gymru? (OAQ6261)

Sue Essex The Secretary for the Environment, Planning and Transport spoken in English p. 13

Sue Essex Ysgrifennydd yr Amgylchedd, Cynllunio a Thrafnidiaeth siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 13

If enacted, the Bill will have significant implications for Wales, primarily in respect of greater access to explore the open countryside, improving the rights of way network and the strengthening of the protection and management of sites of special scientific interest and areas of outstanding natural beauty. There is scope in the proposed legislation for the National Assembly to introduce arrangements, by subordinate legislation and non statutory means, to implement the Bill so as to reflect the Welsh circumstances.

Os daw i rym, caiff y Mesur oblygiadau arwyddocaol i Gymru, yn bennaf yng nghyd-destun mwy o ryddid i grwydro cefn gwlad agored, gwella’r rhwydwaith hawliau tramwy a chryfhau gwarchodaeth a rheolaeth safleoedd o ddiddordeb gwyddonol arbennig ac ardaloedd o harddwch naturiol eithriadol. Mae lle yn y ddeddfwriaeth arfaethedig i’r Cynulliad Cenedlaethol gyflwyno trefniadau, drwy is-ddeddfwriaeth a dulliau anstatudol, i weithredu’r Mesur mewn modd a fydd yn adlewyrchu amgylchiadau Cymru.

Richard Edwards spoken in English p. 13

Richard Edwards siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 13

While greater access is an issue of rights and responsibilities, which should be taken forward as far as possible by consensus, do you accept that there is overwhelming support in Wales for the rights to manage access, that it will prove beneficial for the quality of life of people in Wales, that it will contribute to their health and wealth and, in particular, extending access to open countryside to cover coastal land could provide Wales with the priceless asset of a continuous coastal trail from one end of the country to the other?

Tra bod cynyddu hawliau mynediad yn gwestiwn o hawliau a chyfrifoldebau, y dylid ei symud ymlaen cyn belled ag y bo modd drwy gonsensws, a dderbyniwch fod cefnogaeth aruthrol yng Nghymru i’r hawl i reoli mynediad, y bydd yn fuddiol i ansawdd bywyd pobl yng Nghymru, y bydd yn cyfrannu at eu hiechyd a’u cyfoeth ac, yn arbennig, wrth ehangu mynediad i gefn gwlad agored i gynnwys tir arfordirol, y gellid darparu i Gymru yr ased amhrisiadwy o lwybr arfordir di-dor o un pen o’r wlad i’r llall?

Sue Essex spoken in English p. 14

Sue Essex siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 14

I accept most of your points. I have frequently said that rights will be extended, and it is an important piece of legislation in that respect. However, we need to ensure that it is enacted in a responsible way. That is why we are working with the Countryside Council for Wales to map the areas of open land—work that will include an element of appeal. Through the new rights of open access there are great opportunities to use access and to use our existing rights, such as the public rights of way network and the long-distance footpaths—the new Glyndŵr’s Way will be opened soon—for health and tourism benefits. There is much evidence to show that this is an asset to the economy. If we approach access responsibly, we can achieve those benefits for Wales.

Derbyniaf y rhan fwyaf o’ch pwyntiau. Yr wyf wedi dweud lawer gwaith y caiff hawliau eu hymestyn, ac mae’n ddarn pwysig o ddeddfwriaeth yn hynny o beth. Fodd bynnag, mae angen inni sicrhau y caiff ei weithredu’n gyfrifol. Dyna pam yr ydym yn cydweithio â Chyngor Cefn Gwlad Cymru i fapio’r ardaloedd tir agored—gwaith a fydd yn cynnwys elfen o apêl. Drwy’r hawliau mynediad agored newydd ceir cyfleoedd gwych i ddefnyddio mynediad a defnyddio’n hawliau presennol, megis y rhwydwaith hawliau tramwy cyhoeddus a’r llwybrau hir—agorir Llwybr Glyndŵr cyn bo hir—er mwyn elwa o ran iechyd a thwristiaeth. Mae llawer o dystiolaeth i ddangos fod hyn yn ased i’r economi. Os gallwn ymdrin â mynediad mewn modd cyfrifol, gallwn sicrhau’r elw hwnnw i Gymru.

The Bill delegates to the Assembly the responsibility for deciding whether to include coastal land in the definition of open countryside. We have discussed this in Committee. I hope that the Committee can be instrumental in considering whether we want to extend the definition to include coastal areas.

Mae’r Mesur yn dirprwyo i’r Cynulliad y cyfrifoldeb dros benderfynu a ddylid cynnwys tir arfordirol yn y diffiniad o gefn gwlad agored. Yr ydym wedi trafod hyn yn y Pwyllgor. Gobeithio y gall y Pwyllgor chwarae rhan mewn ystyried a ydym am ymestyn y diffiniad i gynnwys ardaloedd arfordirol.

Jocelyn Davies spoken in English p. 14

Jocelyn Davies siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 14

Wales has a large number of designated conservation sites that are not managed properly at present. Will you urge the adoption of positive payments for landowners who operate wildlife-friendly farming, to encourage sustainable rural development?

Mae gan Gymru nifer fawr o safleoedd cadwraeth dynodedig nad ydynt wedi’u rheoli’n iawn ar hyn o bryd. A wnewch chi annog mabwysiadu taliadau cadarnhaol i dirfeddianwyr sydd yn ffermio mewn modd caredig i fyd natur, er mwyn cefnogi datblygiad gwledig cynaliadwy?

Sue Essex spoken in English p. 14

Sue Essex siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 14

I agree with the sentiment behind that. We have many areas that are defined as being of conservation value. It is important that they are managed. It is no good just to designate them. Money and effort must be invested in managing them and, where possible, in improving the environment. The Countryside and Rights of Way Bill makes an important contribution to a move from paying to stop destruction to paying for positively encouraging enhancement. That would be money wisely spent. I also emphasise the importance of the Tir Gofal scheme, which rewards farmers for environmental improvements.

Cytunaf â’r meddylfryd y tu ôl i hynny. Mae gennym lawer o ardaloedd sydd wedi’u diffinio fel rhai o werth cadwraethol. Mae’n bwysig eu rheoli. Nid yw’n dda i ddim i’w dynodi’n unig. Rhaid buddsoddi arian ac ymdrech i’w rheoli a, lle bo modd, i wella’r amgylchedd. Mae’r Mesur Cefn Gwlad a Hawliau Tramwy’n gwneud cyfraniad pwysig tuag at symudiad oddi wrth dalu i atal dinistr tuag at dalu i annog gwelliannau mewn modd cadarnhaol. Byddai hynny’n wariant doeth. Pwysleisiaf bwysigrwydd cynllun Tir Gofal hefyd, sydd yn gwobrwyo ffermwyr am welliannau amgylcheddol.

Peter Rogers spoken in English p. 15

Peter Rogers siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 15

It is now accepted that, by the end of August, access will be permitted to 20 per cent of land in Wales through voluntary agreements made through Tir Gofal. Would it not have been far better to invest the budget that is being set aside for the Countryside and Rights of Way Bill in Tir Gofal so as to have far more people entering into voluntary agreements to allow access? That would have saved us from all the animosity and bitterness that this Bill is causing in rural areas.

Derbynnir bellach y bydd mynediad wedi’i ganiatáu erbyn diwedd mis Awst i 20 y cant o dir Cymru drwy gytundebau gwirfoddol a wnaethpwyd drwy Tir Gofal. Oni fuasai’n llawer gwell buddsoddi’r gyllideb a neilltuir ar gyfer y Mesur Cefn Gwlad a Hawliau Tramwy yn Nhir Gofal er mwyn cael llawer mwy o bobl i lofnodi cytundebau gwirfoddol i ganiatáu mynediad? Buasai hynny wedi’n harbed ni i gyd rhag yr holl elyniaeth a chwerwder a achosir gan y Mesur hwn mewn ardaloedd gwledig.

Sue Essex spoken in English p. 15

Sue Essex siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 15

I am glad that you acknowledge Tir Gofal’s success. We have put extra money into it. You are right that access provisions form a part of Tir Gofal. However, it is essentially an environmental scheme through which we work with farmers to improve the local environment. Although access is important, it is only part of the Tir Gofal scheme. That scheme would not necessarily deliver access in the open areas of countryside that are covered by the Countryside and Rights of Way Bill. There is a history in many areas of land being offered voluntarily for rights of way. However, if we return to the original White Paper, which considered statutory and voluntary access, it is clear that there is no certainty of access unless a statutory element is introduced. The White Paper persuaded most people that a statutory element was required. The Bill still provides for voluntary provision, which I encourage. In many areas, Tir Gofal will complement it by encouraging, with local access fora, voluntary co-operation and the meeting of the provisions of the Bill.

Yr wyf yn falch eich bod yn cydnabod llwyddiant Tir Gofal. Rhoesom arian ychwanegol i mewn iddo. Yr ydych yn gywir fod darpariaethau mynediad yn ffurfio rhan o Dir Gofal. Fodd bynnag, cynllun amgylcheddol ydyw yn ei hanfod lle gweithiwn gyda ffermwyr i wella’r amgylchedd lleol. Er bod mynediad yn bwysig, dim ond rhan o gynllun Tir Gofal ydyw. Ni fyddai’r cynllun hwnnw o reidrwydd yn sicrhau mynediad yn y darnau cefn gwlad agored a gynhwysir yn y Mesur Cefn Gwlad a Hawliau Tramwy. Ceir hanes mewn sawl ardal o gynnig tir yn wirfoddol ar gyfer hawliau tramwy. Fodd bynnag, os dychwelwn at y Papur Gwyn gwreiddiol, a ystyriodd fynediad statudol a gwirfoddol, mae’n glir nad oes dim sicrwydd mynediad oni chyflwynir elfen statudol. Perswadiodd y Papur Gwyn y rhan fwyaf o bobl fod angen elfen statudol. Mae’r Mesur yn dal i ddarparu ar gyfer darpariaeth wirfoddol, a anogir gennyf. Mewn sawl ardal, bydd Tir Gofal yn ei ategu drwy ymuno â fforymau mynediad lleol i annog cydweithrediad gwirfoddol a chwrdd â darpariaethau’r Mesur.

Alun Pugh spoken in English p. 15

Alun Pugh siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 15

I support the Bill. However, unelected Welsh Tory peers are currently trying to stop it. Lord Roberts of Conwy said during the debate on this Bill in the House of Lords that if it were passed, the mountains of Wales would be covered in shopping trolleys. Can we look forward to shopping carts on the Carneddau, or is the noble Lord off his trolley?

Cefnogaf y Mesur. Fodd bynnag, mae arglwyddi Torïaidd Cymreig anetholedig yn ceisio’i rwystro ar hyn o bryd. Dywedodd yr Arglwydd Roberts o Gonwy yn ystod y ddadl ar y Mesur hwn yn Nhŷ’r Arglwyddi y byddai mynyddoedd Cymru’n frith o drolïau siopa pe câi ei basio. A gawn ni edrych ymlaen at gerti siopa ar y Carneddau, neu a ydyw’r hybarch Arglwydd yn colli arni?

Sue Essex spoken in English p. 15

Sue Essex siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 15

We can always rely on Alun Pugh to raise the standard of the debate. It would be inexcusable if unelected Tory peers overrode the rights of the majority of people in the UK and their desire for this piece of legislation to be passed. In my experience, people who take shopping trolleys from supermarkets take them home. They do not cart them several thousand feet up a mountain and leave them there. I am sure that we would all prefer to use the traditional rucksack rather than a shopping trolley.

Gallwn ddibynnu bob amser ar Alun Pugh i godi safon y ddadl. Byddai’n anfaddeuol pe bai arglwyddi Torïaidd anetholedig yn sarnu hawliau’r mwyafrif o bobl yn y DU a’u hawydd am i’r darn hwn o ddeddfwriaeth gael ei basio. Yn fy mhrofiad i, bydd pobl sydd yn mynd â throlïau siopa o uwchfarchnadoedd yn mynd â nhw adref. Ni fyddant yn eu gwthio filoedd lawer o droedfeddi i fyny mynydd a’u gadael yno. Yr wyf yn siŵr yn byddai’n well gan bawb ohonom ddefnyddio’r ysgrepan draddodiadol yn hytrach na throli siopa.

Mick Bates spoken in English p. 16

Mick Bates siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 16

I am concerned about whether there will be sufficient wardens to police the proposed extra access. For example, there are 50 wardens in the Peak District National Park in England. What money have you set aside to provide extra wardens to take care of the extra access?

Yr wyf yn pryderu a fydd digon o wardeiniaid i blismona’r mynediad ychwanegol arfaethedig. Er enghraifft, mae 50 o wardeiniaid ym Mharc Cenedlaethol y Peak District yn Lloegr. Pa arian yr ydych wedi’i neilltuo i ddarparu wardeiniaid ychwanegol i ofalu am y mynediad ychwanegol?

Sue Essex spoken in English p. 16

Sue Essex siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 16

I do not like to use the word ‘police’. That is not how we want to see it. Undoubtedly, wardens help. I have had discussions with the National Parks Agency and with the Countryside Council for Wales about the staffing that might be needed as a support—I prefer to use the word ‘support’—to implementing this legislation. That is contained in the bids that they have put forward. In the Environment, Planning and Transport Committee during the week before last, we had presentations from the National Park and the CCW on the cost of implementing access legislation. The other point is that there is a great deal of emphasis on developing a walkers’ code. I promoted this strongly a few years ago. If the code goes through in the correct way—and the National Access Forum for Wales will be considering it—it will cover the whole aspect of respecting the rights of the local community. We must consider this from both angles. We must also ensure that those who will be using the countryside respect the countryside and the people who live in it. However, we must also recognise that wardening and care must take place. I hope that we can implement this legislation responsibly.

Nid wyf yn hoffi defnyddio’r gair ‘plismona’. Nid dyna sut yr ydym am ei gweld hi. Heb os, mae wardeiniaid yn helpu. Cefais drafodaethau gydag Asiantaeth y Parciau Cenedlaethol a Chyngor Cefn Gwlad Cymru ynglŷn â’r staff y gallai fod eu hangen fel cymorth—mae’n well gennyf ddefnyddio’r gair ‘cymorth’—i weithredu’r ddeddfwriaeth hon. Mae hynny wedi’i gynnwys yn y cynigion a roesant ger bron. Ym Mhwyllgor yr Amgylchedd, Cynllunio a Thrafnidiaeth yn ystod yr wythnos cyn diwethaf, cawsom gyflwyniadau gan y Parc Cenedlaethol a’r Cyngor Cefn Gwlad ar gost gweithredu deddfwriaeth mynediad. Y pwynt arall yw fod llawer iawn o bwyslais ar ddatblygu cod cerddwyr. Siaradais yn gryf dros hyn ychydig flynyddoedd yn ôl. Os aiff y cod drwodd yn y ffordd gywir—a bydd Fforwm Mynediad Cenedlaethol Cymru’n ei ystyried—bydd yn ymdrin â holl agwedd parchu hawliau’r gymuned leol. Rhaid inni ystyried dwy ochr y geiniog. Rhaid inni sicrhau hefyd y bydd y rheini a fydd yn defnyddio cefn gwlad yn parchu cefn gwlad a’r bobl sydd yn byw yno. Fodd bynnag, rhaid inni gydnabod hefyd fod yn rhaid wrth wardeiniaid a gofal. Gobeithiaf y gallwn weithredu’r ddeddfwriaeth hon yn gyfrifol.

Gweithredu Cynnig y Cynulliad ar Newid yr Hinsawdd

Implementing the Assembly’s Motion on Climate Change

Q2 Michael German spoken in English p. 17

C2 Michael German siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 17

What steps has Sue Essex taken to ensure the full implementation of the Assembly’s motion of 10 May on climate change? (OAQ6229)

Pa gamau a gymerwyd gan Sue Essex i sicrhau bod cynnig y Cynulliad ar 10 Mai ar y newid yn yr hinsawdd yn cael ei weithredu’n llawn? (OAQ6229)

Sue Essex spoken in English p. 17

Sue Essex siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 17

The Assembly’s views on climate change, together with the many comments received in response to the consultation exercise on the draft climate change programme, will be taken into account in the development of the final climate change programme.

Caiff sylwadau’r Cynulliad ar y newid hinsawdd, ynghyd â’r sylwadau lu a gafwyd mewn ymateb i’r ymarferiad ymgynghori ar y rhaglen ddrafft ar y newid hinsawdd, eu hystyried wrth ddatblygu’r rhaglen newid hinsawdd derfynol.

Michael German spoken in English p. 17

Michael German siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 17

I am sure you will recognise that the resolution had three parts to it that required action by the Executive. The second of these was to set clear guidelines for local authorities to assist them in reducing road traffic volumes. How do you intend to progress that part of the resolution, when do you intend to do so and what steps have you taken so far to implement it?

Yr wyf yn siŵr y sylweddolwch fod tair rhan i’r penderfyniad a oedd yn gofyn am weithredu gan y Weithrediaeth. Yr ail o’r rhain oedd gosod canllawiau clir i awdurdodau lleol i’w helpu i leihau traffig ar y ffyrdd. Sut y bwriadwch fynd ati gyda’r rhan honno o’r penderfyniad, pa bryd y bwriadwch wneud hynny a pha gamau a gymerasoch hyd yma i’w gweithredu?

Sue Essex spoken in English p. 17

Sue Essex siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 17

The final document will be published in the autumn. It will address all that needs to be put in place to achieve restraint on climate change. We are in discussion with local authorities on road traffic. We looked at whether we should set road traffic reduction targets at a blanket level for the whole of Wales. This was when Peter Law was the Assembly Secretary with responsibility for this. The general view was that we should discuss this reasonably with local authorities to see what realistic targets could be set. In terms of road traffic reduction as a whole, we are committed to implementing a programme of integrated transport. As part of that, we aim to move people out of cars wherever possible and onto more sustainable forms of transport or, at times, to walk. We have just mentioned walking. This will all be part of the total package contained in the climate change programme and in other measures that the Assembly will put into place.

Cyhoeddir y ddogfen derfynol yn yr hydref. Bydd yn rhoi sylw i bopeth y mae angen ei roi yn ei le i sicrhau cyfyngiad ar newid hinsawdd. Yr ydym yn trafod traffig ffyrdd gydag awdurdodau lleol. Ystyriasom a ddylid gosod targedau lleihau traffig ffyrdd ar lefel flanced dros Gymru gyfan. Yr oedd hyn pan oedd Peter Law yn Ysgrifennydd Cynulliad gyda chyfrifoldeb am hyn. Y farn gyffredinol oedd y dylem drafod hyn yn rhesymol gydag awdurdodau lleol i weld pa dargedau realistig y gellid eu gosod. Yn nhermau lleihau traffig y ffyrdd yn gyffredinol, yr ydym wedi ymrwymo i weithredu rhaglen o drafnidiaeth integredig. Fel rhan o hynny, anelwn at symud pobl allan o geir lle bynnag y bo modd ac i ffurfiau mwy addas o drafnidiaeth neu, weithiau, i gerdded. Yr ydym newydd sôn am gerdded. Bydd hyn i gyd yn rhan o’r pecyn cyfan a gynhwysir yn y rhaglen newid hinsawdd ac mewn mesurau eraill y bydd y Cynulliad yn eu rhoi yn eu lle.

Phil Williams spoken in English p. 17

Phil Williams siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 17

To meet and surpass the Kyoto targets, we all recognise the crucial importance of an urgent and substantial expansion in the contribution from renewable energy. However, bearing in mind environmental and planning constraints, we recognise that in agreeing a strategic plan for the advancement of renewable energy, it is necessary to have the full co-operation of the Environment Agency, the Countryside Council for Wales, the National Park and all local authorities. What meetings have you had with these bodies on this subject and what progress has been made towards drafting a strategic plan for renewable energy in Wales?

Er mwyn cyrraedd a mynd ymhellach na thargedau Kyoto, yr ydym i gyd yn sylweddoli pwysigrwydd twf mawr a buan yn y cyfraniad a geir gan ynni adnewyddadwy. Fodd bynnag, o gofio’r cyfyngiadau amgylcheddol a chynllunio, cydnabyddwn, wrth gytuno ar gynllun strategol ar gyfer hybu ynni adnewyddadwy, fod angen cael cydweithrediad llawn Asiantaeth yr Amgylchedd, Cyngor Cefn Gwlad Cymru, y Parc Cenedlaethol a’r awdurdodau lleol i gyd. Pa gyfarfodydd a gawsoch gyda’r cyrff hyn ar y pwnc hwn a pha gamau a gymerwyd tuag at ddrafftio cynllun strategol ar gyfer ynni adnewyddadwy yng Nghymru?

Sue Essex spoken in English p. 18

Sue Essex siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 18

I know that this is dear to your heart. An energy strategy is being produced. I suspect that renewable energy will be a cornerstone of that strategy. In terms of discussions with the agencies involved—and you are correct that a number of agencies are involved, including local authorities, because they will determine the planning applications on this—I have had discussions on how we can establish a more strategic framework as a background against which local authorities can make those decisions more easily. That has to be part of the strategy. I believe that another question on renewable energy is to be answered later. The landmark exercise that is being carried out at the moment gives us a better basis on which to judge the visual implications of applications for windfarms and other energies. There are a number of elements to this. The strategy will provide the core but other elements will be needed, such as working with agencies, to allow it to be interpreted on the ground.

Gwn fod hyn yn agos at eich calon. Mae strategaeth ynni ar y gweill. Yr wyf yn amau y bydd ynni adnewyddadwy’n gonglfaen i’r strategaeth honno. Yn nhermau trafodaethau gyda’r asiantaethau perthnasol—ac yr ydych yn gywir fod nifer o gyrff yn ymwneud â hyn, gan gynnwys awdurdodau lleol, gan y byddant hwy’n penderfynu ar y ceisiadau cynllunio ar hyn—yr wyf wedi cael trafodaethau ar sut y gallwn sefydlu fframwaith mwy strategol yn gefndir i awdurdodau lleol allu gwneud y penderfyniadau hynny’n haws. Rhaid i hynny fod yn rhan o’r strategaeth. Credaf y caiff cwestiwn arall ar ynni adnewyddadwy ei ateb yn ddiweddarach. Mae’r ymarfer pwysig sydd yn digwydd ar hyn o bryd yn rhoi sail well inni farnu goblygiadau gweledol ceisiadau am ffermydd gwynt a moddau eraill o ynni. Mae sawl elfen i hyn. Bydd y strategaeth yn darparu’r craidd ond bydd angen elfennau eraill, fel cydweithio gydag asiantaethau, i ganiatáu ei ddehongli ar y ddaear.

Asesu’r Niwed a Achosir gan Dyrbinau Gwynt

Assessing the Damage Caused by Wind Turbines

Q3 Nick Bourne spoken in English p. 18

C3 Nick Bourne siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 18

Can Sue Essex report on any research that is available, or is underway, to assess the damage caused to the Welsh landscape by wind turbines? (OAQ6222)

A all Sue Essex gyflwyno adroddiad ar unrhyw waith ymchwil sydd ar gael, neu sydd ar y gweill, i asesu’r difrod a achosir i dirlun Cymru gan dyrbinau gwynt? (OAQ6222)

Sue Essex spoken in English p. 18

Sue Essex siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 18

The Countryside Council for Wales has undertaken research into wind energy generation issues, beginning with the publication of the wind turbine power station construction monitoring study in 1994. On a broader strategic scale, subsequent work has looked at the cumulative impact of wind turbine development in the Welsh countryside. This has been complemented by a study examining offshore turbines and their impact on the coast and seas of Wales. Full details are available from the Countryside Council for Wales. This year, the Department of Trade and Industry has published generic research entitled ‘The Cumulative Effect of Wind Turbines—A Guide to Assessing the Cumulative Effects of Wind Energy Development’. At a site-specific level, individual planning applications that are judged likely to have a significant environmental impact will always be accompanied by an environmental impact assessment.

Mae Cyngor Cefn Gwlad Cymru wedi ymchwilio i faterion cynhyrchu ynni gwynt, gan ddechrau gyda chyhoeddi’r astudiaeth fonitro pwerdai tyrbinau gwynt yn 1994. Ar raddfa strategol ehangach, edrychwyd ers hynny ar effaith gronnol datblygiad tyrbinau gwynt yng nghefn gwlad Cymru. Ochr yn ochr â hyn cafwyd astudiaeth yn archwilio tyrbinau allan ar y môr a’u heffaith ar arfordir a moroedd Cymru. Mae manylion llawn ar gael gan Gyngor Cefn Gwlad Cymru. Eleni, mae’r Adran Masnach a Diwydiant wedi cyhoeddi ymchwil gyffredinol dan y pennawd ‘The Cumulative Effect of Wind Turbines—A Guide to Assessing the Cumulative Effects of Wind Energy Development’. Ar safleoedd penodol, bydd yn rhaid cael asesiad effaith amgylcheddol gyda phob cais cynllunio unigol y bernir ei fod yn debygol o gael effaith arwyddocaol ar yr amgylchedd.

Nick Bourne spoken in English p. 19

Nick Bourne siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 19

I am grateful for that. You are aware that there is genuine and widespread concern throughout mid Wales about many of these proposed developments and the damage that they would do to the most beautiful landscape in the United Kingdom. Do you intend to call in any of the current proposals? For example, there is a large proposal for the Brecon Beacons National Park. What is your intention for the great number of proposals that are coming forward at present?

Yr wyf yn ddiolchgar am hynny. Yr ydych yn ymwybodol fod gwir bryder ledled y Canolbarth ynghylch llawer o’r datblygiadau arfaethedig hyn a’r niwed a wnaent i’r tirwedd harddaf yn y Deyrnas Unedig. A ydych yn bwriadu galw unrhyw rai o’r cynigion presennol i mewn? Er enghraifft, mae cynnig mawr ar gyfer Parc Cenedlaethol Bannau Brycheiniog. Beth yw’ch bwriad ar gyfer y nifer fawr o gynigion sydd yn dod ger bron ar hyn o bryd?

Sue Essex spoken in English p. 19

Sue Essex siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 19

I cannot comment on individual proposals because that could prejudice decisions. I refer to my answer to Phil’s question. It was on the wider theme of energy but I focused on the whole issue of renewable energy and wind turbines. We must provide, as soon as possible, a strategic framework within which individual applications can be judged. We now have research, particularly the CCW’s research on cumulative effects. What has happened is that people have considered all applications individually, and have rightly decided on their merits with an environmental impact assessment to accompany them. We are now looking at the substantial cumulative impact that they can have on the landscape. To look to the future, offshore wind turbines will have an impact because even the coast and the marine environment have quality. Many people feel that offshore turbines provide an opportunity to avoid people’s concerns about land turbines and their local impact on small groups of people as well as on the wider environment.

Ni allaf roi sylw ar gynigion unigol gan y gallai hynny ragfarnu penderfyniadau. Cyfeiriaf at fy ateb i gwestiwn Phil. Cwestiwn ar thema ehangach ynni ydoedd, ond canolbwyntiais ar holl gwestiwn ynni adnewyddadwy a thyrbinau gwynt. Rhaid inni ddarparu fframwaith strategol cyn gynted ag y bo modd er mwyn barnu ceisiadau unigol o’i mewn. Mae gennym ymchwil bellach, yn enwedig ymchwil y Cyngor Cefn Gwlad ar effeithiau cronnol. Yr hyn sydd wedi digwydd yw fod pobl wedi ystyried pob cais yn unigol, ac wedi penderfynu’n gymwys ar eu teilyngdod gydag asesiad effaith amgylcheddol i gyd-fynd â hwy. Yr ydym yn edrych yn awr ar yr effaith gronnol sylweddol y gallant ei chael ar y tirwedd. Wrth edrych tua’r dyfodol, bydd tyrbinau gwynt allan ar y môr yn cael effaith hefyd oherwydd mae gan hyd yn oed yr arfordir ac amgylchedd y môr ryw ansawdd. Mae llawer o bobl yn credu fod tyrbinau ar y môr yn darparu cyfle i osgoi’r pryderon sydd gan bobl am dyrbinau tir a’u heffaith leol ar grwpiau bach o bobl yn ogystal ag ar yr amgylchedd ehangach.

Elin Jones siaradwyd yn Gymraeg t. 20

Elin Jones spoken in Welsh p. 20

Croesawaf yr hyn y mae’r Ysgrifennydd wedi ei ddweud ynglŷn â strategaeth yn y maes hwn. A yw hi’n cytuno bod yn rhaid i gynlluniau defnydd tir hyrwyddo prosiectau ynni adnewyddadwy gan gynnwys ynni gwynt ar dir, ac y dylai hyn fod yn ganolog i gynllun datblygu cynaliadwy y Cynulliad Cenedlaethol?

I welcome what the Secretary has said about strategy in this field. Does she agree that land use schemes must promote renewable energy projects including onshore wind energy and that this should be central to the National Assembly’s sustainable development programme?

Sue Essex spoken in English p. 20

Sue Essex siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 20

I think that we all agree that there is huge scope for the use of wind energy. However, the question is what method to use and how to use wind energy so that it does not infringe on local communities or individuals and does not have an impact on the landscape and other areas that have economic benefits. If we can crack the issue of location, it will give us enormous scope for developing a programme. We have discussed in previous debates the fact that we in Wales have an opportunity because there is, without saying it too bluntly in this Chamber, a lot of wind available.

Credaf ein bod i gyd yn cytuno fod posibiliadau anferth i ddefnyddio ynni’r gwynt. Fodd bynnag, y cwestiwn yw pa ddull i’w ddefnyddio a sut i ddefnyddio ynni’r gwynt fel na fydd yn tarfu ar gymunedau lleol nac unigolion ac fel na fydd yn niweidio’r tirwedd na meysydd eraill sydd yn rhoi manteision economaidd. Os gallwn ddatrys cwestiwn y lleoliad, cynigir posibiliadau enfawr inni ddatblygu rhaglen. Yr ydym wedi trafod mewn dadleuon blaenorol y ffaith fod gennym ni yng Nghymru gyfle oherwydd, heb siarad yn rhy blaen yn y Siambr hon, mae digonedd o wynt ar gael.

Kirsty Williams spoken in English p. 20

Kirsty Williams siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 20

Would you consider including a condition in planning approvals of such developments that the contractors and companies that intend to erect turbines use the latest technology, which can limit the impact of factors such as noise pollution on local communities? Will you ensure that all planning decisions of this nature are dealt with as quickly as possible to avoid the divisiveness that can arise in a community when people—who are perfectly entitled to do so and often do so for good reason—submit an application, but there is strong local opposition? The quicker these applications are dealt with, the less opportunity there is for divisiveness and falling out in communities.

A fyddech yn ystyried cynnwys amod wrth gymeradwyo ceisiadau cynllunio ar gyfer datblygiadau o’r fath, y dylai’r contractwyr a’r cwmnïau sydd yn bwriadu codi tyrbinau ddefnyddio’r dechnoleg ddiweddaraf, a all gyfyngu effaith ffactorau fel llygredd sŵn ar gymunedau lleol? A wnewch chi sicrhau yr ymdrinnir â phob cais cynllunio o’r math hwn cyn gynted ag y bo modd er mwyn osgoi’r rhwygiadau a all ddigwydd mewn cymuned pan fydd pobl—a chanddynt berffaith hawl i wneud, a rhesymau da dros hynny’n aml—yn cyflwyno cais, yn wyneb gwrthwynebiad cryf yn lleol? Gorau po gyntaf yr ymdrinnir â’r ceisiadau hyn er mwyn rhoi llai o gyfle i gymunedau ymrwygo a ffraeo.

Sue Essex spoken in English p. 20

Sue Essex siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 20

On the first point, I agree that as technology improves there is opportunity to offset the more difficult elements that were associated with the early turbines. In fairness, most generators and producers are looking to introduce the most modern turbines, purely because it makes economic sense because of their life span. I do not necessarily agree on the second point. I do not think that you can offset planning aggravation, as it were, because planning itself generates controversy because people have conflicting views on a range of issues. In terms of wind energy, in most cases we would require an environmental impact assessment to accompany it. That takes time. Although there is divisiveness and, sometimes, ill-feeling it is important that everyone involved feels that they have had their say. If all have an opportunity to have input, they may not always be happy with the outcome, but they will accept it. It may seem attractive to speed through decisions in terms of public participation and public confidence, but it probably is not. The job needs to be done properly.

Ar y pwynt cyntaf, cytunaf fod gwelliannau technolegol yn rhoi cyfle i leddfu’r elfennau llai buddiol a oedd yn gysylltiedig â’r tyrbinau cynnar. I fod yn deg, mae’r rhan fwyaf o gynhyrchwyr yn edrych ar gyflwyno’r tyrbinau diweddaraf, dim ond oherwydd bod hynny’n gwneud synnwyr economaidd oherwydd hyd eu hoes. Nid wyf o reidrwydd yn cytuno ar yr ail bwynt. Ni chredaf y gallwch leddfu anghydfod cynllunio, fel petai, oherwydd mae cynllunio ynddo’i hun yn cynhyrchu gwrthdaro gan fod gan bobl wahanol farn ar amrediad o faterion. Gydag ynni gwynt, yn y rhan fwyaf o achosion byddai angen asesiad effaith amgylcheddol gyda’r cais. Mae hynny’n cymryd amser. Er y ceir rhwygiadau, a drwgdeimlad weithiau, mae’n bwysig fod pawb dan sylw’n teimlo eu bod wedi cael dweud eu dweud. Os cafodd pawb gyfle i roi mewnbwn, efallai na fyddant bob amser yn hapus â’r canlyniad, ond fe’i derbyniant. Fe all ymddangos yn beth braf gwibio drwy benderfyniadau yn nhermau cyfranogiad y cyhoedd a hyder y cyhoedd, ond mae’n debyg nad ydyw. Mae angen gwneud y gwaith yn iawn.

Pwyntiau o Drefn

Points of Order

Jonathan Morgan spoken in English p. 21

Jonathan Morgan siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 21

Point of order. My point of order relates to a concern that I raised yesterday under Standing Order No. 6.5 on the time available for the consideration of Subject Committee reports. I understand that the three amendments that have been tabled on the Pre-16 Education, Schools and Early Learning Committee report for consideration this afternoon still stand. Will the Government of Wales consider bringing forward an amendment to Standing Orders to prevent this abuse of process in the future? I believe, and I have spoken to other Members about this, that if we are to give proper consideration to Committee reports, they should stand as reports. If we allow political parties to table amendments, we could be dealing with three, four, five, six, seven or eight amendments. Bearing in mind the time constraints and that we wish to give proper consideration to the reports without getting bogged down in detailed policy considerations and that the three amendments that have been tabled are considerable, will the Government of Wales consider amending Standing Orders?

Pwynt o drefn. Mae a wnelo fy mhwynt o drefn â phryder a leisiais ddoe dan Reol Sefydlog Rhif 6.5 ynghylch yr amser sydd ar gael ar gyfer ystyried adroddiadau Pwyllgorau Pwnc. Deallaf fod y tri gwelliant a gyflwynwyd ar adroddiad y Pwyllgor Addysg Cyn-16, Ysgolion ac Addysg Gynnar i’w hystyried y prynhawn yma’n dal i sefyll. A wnaiff Llywodraeth Cymru ystyried dod ymlaen â gwelliant i’r Rheolau Sefydlog er mwyn atal camddefnyddio’r broses fel hyn yn y dyfodol? Credaf, ac yr wyf wedi siarad ag Aelodau eraill ynglŷn â hyn, os ydym am roi ystyriaeth briodol i adroddiadau Pwyllgorau, y dylent sefyll fel adroddiadau. Os caniatawn i bleidiau gwleidyddol gyflwyno gwelliannau, gallem fod yn delio â thri, pedwar, pump, chwech, saith neu wyth gwelliant. O gofio’r cyfyngiadau amser a’n bod yn dymuno rhoi ystyriaeth briodol i’r adroddiadau heb gael ein llethu mewn ystyriaethau polisi manwl, a bod y tri gwelliant sydd wedi’u cyflwyno’n rhai sylweddol, a wnaiff Llywodraeth Cymru ystyried diwygio’r Rheolau Sefydlog?

Gareth Jones siaradwyd yn Gymraeg t. 22

Gareth Jones spoken in Welsh p. 22

Ymhellach i’r pwynt hwnnw o drefn, hoffwn ei gwneud yn glir mai gwelliannau i’r cynnig yw’r rhain ac nid gwelliannau i’r adroddiad.

Further to that point of order, I would like to make it clear that these are amendments to the motion and not amendments to the report.

Andrew Davies spoken in English p. 22

Andrew Davies siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 22

Further to that point of order, I sympathise with Jonathan’s point. The points were well made in Plenary yesterday. We need to consider carefully the relationship between Plenary and the Subject Committees. We have made a point, as a Government, that it is inappropriate for the Plenary to instruct Subject Committees in any particular area. There are dangers that, by dealing with business in this way and allowing amendments to Subject Committee reports, that the principle may be breached. I am willing to consider this matter and discuss it with colleagues in Business Committee and, if appropriate, return with recommendations.

Ymhellach i’r pwynt hwnnw o drefn, cydymdeimlaf â phwynt Jonathan. Gwnaethpwyd y pwyntiau’n dda yn y Cyfarfod Llawn ddoe. Mae angen inni ystyried yn ofalus y berthynas rhwng y Cyfarfod Llawn a’r Pwyllgorau Pwnc. Yr ydym wedi gwneud pwynt, fel Llywodraeth, ei bod yn amhriodol i’r Cyfarfod Llawn gyfarwyddo Pwyllgorau Pwnc mewn unrhyw faes arbennig. Y mae peryglon, wrth ddelio â busnes yn y modd hwn a chaniatáu gwelliannau i adroddiadau Pwyllgorau Pwnc, y gellir torri’r egwyddor. Yr wyf yn fodlon ystyried y mater hwn a’i drafod gyda chyd-Aelodau yn y Pwyllgor Busnes, ac, os yw’n briodol, dod yn ôl gydag argymhellion.

Huw Lewis spoken in English p. 22

Huw Lewis siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 22

Further to that point of order, I believe that Jonathan’s points are sound. The amendment of substance that may commit the Assembly to expenditure was voted against at the Subject Committee. As I said yesterday, if we proceed with this we are setting a dangerous precedent. If there were a majority party in this Chamber, it could do whatever it wanted with Subject Committee reports, and the integrity of Committees could be overridden at will.

Ymhellach i’r pwynt hwnnw o drefn, credaf fod pwyntiau Jonathan yn deg. Pleidleisiwyd yn y Pwyllgor Pwnc yn erbyn y gwelliant o sylwedd a all ymrwymo’r Cynulliad i wariant. Fel y dywedais ddoe, os awn ymlaen gyda hyn yr ydym yn gosod cynsail beryglus. Petai gan un blaid fwyafrif yn y Siambr hon, gallai wneud beth bynnag a fynnai gydag adroddiadau Pwyllgorau Pwnc, a gellid sarnu cywirdeb Pwyllgorau fel y mynnid.

Dafydd Elis-Thomas The Presiding Officer spoken in English p. 22

Dafydd Elis-Thomas Y Llywydd siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 22

I have not announced my selection of amendments. That will happen later. However, by replying now I can hopefully prevent further points of order. My consideration has to be Standing Order No. 6.15. Declining to select an amendment is within the jurisdiction of the Presiding Officer when

Nid wyf wedi cyhoeddi fy newis o welliannau. Bydd hynny’n digwydd yn nes ymlaen. Fodd bynnag, drwy ateb yn awr gallaf osgoi pwyntiau o drefn pellach, gobeithio. Rhaid i mi ystyried Rheol Sefydlog Rhif 6.15. Gall y Llywydd wrthod dewis gwelliant

‘he or she considers that the proper conduct of the business of the Assembly makes it appropriate to do so’.

‘pan fydd ef neu hi o’r farn bod y dull priodol o gynnal busnes y Cynulliad yn ei gwneud yn briodol gwrthod’.

That, in my view, relates to the conduct of the Assembly in Plenary when moving an amendment might cause difficulty with the progress of business. That is my interpretation of that Standing Order. It is not about the content of amendments to motions that have been quite rightly accepted by the Table Office as being in order. The points that have been raised so far on these points of order would be more appropriately made during the debate. I will take note of this and ensure that we move onto the debate speedily.

Mae hynny, yn fy marn i, yn ymwneud ag ymddygiad y Cynulliad mewn Cyfarfod Llawn pan allai cynnig gwelliant achosi anhawster gyda chyflawni busnes. Dyna fy nehongliad i o’r Rheol Sefydlog honno. Nid oes a wnelo’r rheol â chynnwys gwelliannau i gynigion a dderbyniwyd yn gwbl deg gan y Swyddfa Gyflwyno fel rhai sydd mewn trefn. Byddai’n fwy priodol gwneud y pwyntiau a godwyd hyd yma ar y pwyntiau hyn o drefn yn ystod y ddadl. Fe nodaf hyn a sicrhau y symudwn ymlaen at y ddadl yn ddi-oed.

Brian Hancock spoken in English p. 23

Brian Hancock siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 23

Point of order. I raise a point of order under Standing Orders Nos. 6.8 and 6.11 and refer back to the Plenary last week. On Tuesday 27 June, under Standing Order No. 6.8, I asked for a statement to be made by the First Secretary on post offices in concert with the statements being made in Parliament. A statement was not made. I was not able to raise a comment on the Business Statement yesterday, which is why I raise this under Standing Order No. 6.11 now. I would still like to hear that statement because urban and rural post offices are of great concern to all our communities and the people in them. I am also led to believe that Wales will have financial responsibility, as announced in Parliament, which we will need to address. Therefore, I raise this point again.

Pwynt o drefn. Codaf bwynt o drefn dan Reolau Sefydlog Rhifau 6.8 a 6.11 a chyfeiriaf yn ôl at y Cyfarfod Llawn yr wythnos diwethaf. Ddydd Mawrth 27 Mehefin, dan Reol Sefydlog Rhif 6.8, gofynnais am i’r Prif Ysgrifennydd wneud datganiad ar swyddfeydd post i gyd-fynd â’r datganiadau a oedd yn cael eu gwneud yn y Senedd. Ni wnaethpwyd datganiad. Ni lwyddais i godi sylw ar y Datganiad Busnes ddoe, a dyna pam y codaf hyn dan Reol Sefydlog Rhif 6.11 yn awr. Byddwn yn dal i hoffi clywed y datganiad hwnnw oherwydd mae swyddfeydd post trefol a gwledig o bwys mawr i’n holl gymunedau a’r bobl ynddynt. Yr wyf yn cael ar ddeall hefyd y bydd gan Gymru gyfrifoldeb ariannol, fel a gyhoeddwyd yn y Senedd, ac y bydd angen inni roi sylw i hynny. Felly, codaf y pwynt hwn eto.

Andrew Davies spoken in English p. 23

Andrew Davies siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 23

Further to that point of order, I would have thought that this would be more appropriately dealt with via an emergency question. It is a matter of whether this should be done via a question or a statement. It is often the case that an emergency question could be answered in the normal course of Plenary by Brian tabling a question to the Secretary with responsibility for economic development or to whichever Assembly Secretary has the responsibility for the matter. That would be a more appropriate way of dealing with this than making a statement.

Ymhellach i’r pwynt hwnnw o drefn, buaswn wedi tybio y byddai’n fwy priodol delio â hyn drwy gwestiwn brys. Mater ydyw o a ddylid gwneud hyn drwy gwestiwn ynteu ddatganiad. Yn aml gallai cwestiwn brys gael ei ateb yng nghwrs arferol Cyfarfod Llawn drwy i Brian gyflwyno cwestiwn i’r Ysgrifennydd â chyfrifoldeb dros ddatblygu economaidd neu i ba bynnag Ysgrifennydd Cynulliad sydd â chyfrifoldeb dros y mater. Byddai hynny’n ffordd fwy priodol o ddelio â hyn na gwneud datganiad.

Dafydd Elis-Thomas The Presiding Officer spoken in English p. 23

Dafydd Elis-Thomas Y Llywydd siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 23

Generally speaking, the fact that a statement is made in Westminster—in another place as they call it—should not be seen as an urgent matter in our business, otherwise we would have our business continually interrupted. However, where there are issues that are of particular relevance to the Assembly, and where the issue has been raised in the Assembly, the Government of Wales might consider it appropriate to make statements in those cases. That is a matter for the Government, not for me. However, I am grateful to Brian for giving me advance notice of that point of order and for raising it. I am sure that he will seek to pursue this by other means.

A siarad yn gyffredinol, ni ddylid gweld y ffaith fod datganiad wedi’i wneud yn San Steffan—mewn lle arall, fel y’i gelwir—fel mater brys yn ein busnes ni, neu fel arall byddai rhywbeth yn torri ar draws ein busnes ni byth a beunydd. Fodd bynnag, lle mae materion sydd yn arbennig o berthnasol i’r Cynulliad, a lle codwyd y mater yn y Cynulliad, gallai Llywodraeth Cymru ystyried mai priodol fyddai gwneud datganiadau yn yr achosion hynny. Mater i’r Llywodraeth yw hynny, nid i mi. Fodd bynnag, yr wyf yn ddiolchgar i Brian am roi rhybudd ymlaen llaw imi am y pwynt hwnnw o drefn, ac am ei godi. Yr wyf yn siŵr y ceisia fynd ar ôl hyn drwy ffyrdd eraill.

Cymeradwyo Rheoliadau Bwydydd a Addaswyd yn Enetig a Bwydydd Newydd (Labelu) (Cymru) 2000

Approval of the Genetically Modified and Novel Foods (Labelling) (Wales) Regulations 2000

Jane Hutt The Secretary for Health and Social Services spoken in English p. 24

Jane Hutt Yr Ysgrifennydd Iechyd a Gwasanaethau Cymdeithasol siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 24

I propose that the National Assembly

Cynigiaf fod y Cynulliad Cenedlaethol

Jane Hutt The Secretary for Health and Social Services (continued) spoken in English p. 24

Jane Hutt Yr Ysgrifennydd Iechyd a Gwasanaethau Cymdeithasol (parhad) siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 24

I also propose that the National Assembly

Cynigiaf hefyd fod y Cynulliad Cenedlaethol

Jane Hutt The Secretary for Health and Social Services (continued) spoken in English p. 24

Jane Hutt Yr Ysgrifennydd Iechyd a Gwasanaethau Cymdeithasol (parhad) siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 24

The purpose of these regulations is to consolidate and amend genetically modified and novel food labelling requirements. They will make continued provision in Wales for the enforcement of existing European Commission regulations on the labelling of foodstuffs containing GM soya or maize and the labelling requirements concerning novel foods and novel food ingredients. In addition, they will make provision in Wales for the enforcement of new EC regulations that extend GM labelling rules to foods delivered to mass caterers; provide for 1 per cent de minimus threshold for adventitious contamination of non-GM products; and require the labelling of food and food ingredients that contain additives or flavourings, that are, contain, or are produced from, GM soya or maize.

Pwrpas y rheoliadau hyn yw cyfnerthu a diwygio gofynion labelu bwydydd a addaswyd yn enetig a bwydydd newydd. Byddant yn gwneud darpariaeth barhaus yng Nghymru ar gyfer sicrhau ufudd-dod i reoliadau presennol y Comisiwn Ewropeaidd ar labelu bwydydd sydd yn cynnwys soia neu india-corn GM a’r gofynion labelu parthed bwydydd newydd a chynhwysion bwyd newydd. At hynny, byddant yn darparu yng Nghymru ar gyfer sicrhau ufudd-dod i reoliadau newydd y CE sydd yn ymestyn rheolau labelu GM i fwydydd a anfonir at arlwywyr mawr; yn darparu ar gyfer trothwy de minimus o 1 y cant am halogi damweiniol ar gynhyrchion heb addasu genetig; ac yn gofyn am labelu bwyd a chynhwysion bwyd sydd yn cynnwys ychwanegynnau neu flasynnau sydd yn cynnwys neu wedi’u cynhyrchu o soia ac india-corn GM.

The powers required to make these regulations under the Food Safety Act 1990 have been vested in the Assembly. As that Act requires, I have been advised by the Foods Standards Agency. It is clear that some people will not choose to eat GM foods. These regulations ensure that they can make that choice by requiring all products containing GM soya and maize to be labelled if they contain novel genetic material. They are an important step forward in ensuring that there is a comprehensive, effective and practical GM labelling system in place that will deliver increased consumer choice and information. They also close an important loophole in the law by extending current labelling requirements to the suppliers of caterers and restaurants, making it easier for them to provide accurate information to consumers.

Mae’r grymoedd angenrheidiol i wneud y rheoliadau hyn dan Ddeddf Diogelwch Bwyd 1990 wedi’u breinio yn y Cynulliad. Fel y mynna’r Ddeddf honno, yr wyf wedi cael cyngor gan yr Asiantaeth Safonau Bwyd. Mae’n amlwg na fydd rhai pobl yn dewis bwyta bwyd GM. Mae’r rheoliadau hyn yn sicrhau y gallant wneud y dewis hwnnw drwy fynnu bod pob cynnyrch sydd yn cynnwys soia ac india-corn GM yn cael eu labelu os ydynt yn cynnwys deunydd genetig newydd. Maent yn gam pwysig ymlaen i sicrhau bod system labelu GM gynhwysfawr, effeithiol ac ymarferol yn ei lle a fydd yn rhoi mwy o ddewis a gwybodaeth i ddefnyddwyr. Maent hefyd yn cau dihangfa bwysig yn y gyfraith drwy ymestyn gofynion labelu cyfredol i gyflenwyr arlwywyr a thai bwyta, gan ei gwneud yn haws iddynt hwy roi gwybodaeth gywir i ddefnyddwyr.

European Union member states are required to bring into force provisions to enforce the EC regulations. Implementation in Wales will take the form of these regulations. Around 15,000 food businesses will be affected, subject to them using food and food ingredients containing GM soya or maize. These comprise catering establishments, manufacturers, retailers and businesses supplying foods to mass caterers. The food industry is diverse and the impact of the new requirements will vary according to the present practices of individual businesses, the number and types of products that they produce and the commercial decisions that they take. However, I would suggest that additional costs will not be great, since the vast majority of businesses will already provide labelling information, either in compliance with existing EC regulations, or with contractual obligations. Similarly, local enforcement authorities, and port health authorities, who have responsibility for enforcing existing regulations, already have systems in place for routine checks on relevant businesses. Although the number of businesses requiring enforcements should increase, this will not create a great burden in itself. These rules are to be enforced nationally by member states, and the adoption of these regulations will ensure that the Assembly meets its obligations under European Community law. Separate regulations have been made in England and Scotland, and similar provisions are being made in Northern Ireland. I ask you to support the motion to approve the regulations.

Mae’n ofynnol i aelod-wladwriaethau’r Undeb Ewropeaidd roi darpariaethau mewn grym i sicrhau ufudd-dod i reoliadau’r CE. Bydd y modd y gweithredir yng Nghymru’n dilyn ffurf y rheoliadau hyn. Effeithir ar ryw 15,000 o fusnesau bwyd, os ydynt yn defnyddio bwyd a chynhwysion bwyd sydd yn cynnwys soia neu india-corn GM. Mae’r rhain yn cynnwys sefydliadau arlwyo, gwneuthurwyr, manwerthwyr a busnesau sydd yn cyflenwi bwyd i arlwywyr mawr. Mae’r diwydiant bwyd yn amrywiol a bydd effaith y gofynion newydd yn amrywio yn ôl arferion presennol busnesau unigol, nifer a mathau’r cynhyrchion a gynhyrchant a’r penderfyniadau masnachol a wnânt. Fodd bynnag, awgrymaf na fydd y costau ychwanegol yn fawr, gan fod y mwyafrif llethol o fusnesau eisoes yn darparu gwybodaeth labelu, naill ai i gydymffurfio â rheoliadau presennol CE, neu dan ofynion contract. Yn yr un modd, mae gan awdurdodau gorfodi lleol ac awdurdodau iechyd porthladdoedd, sydd yn gyfrifol am sicrhau ufudd-dod i’r rheoliadau presennol, systemau yn eu lle yn barod ar gyfer archwiliadau rheolaidd ar fusnesau perthnasol. Er y dylai nifer y busnesau sydd angen eu gwylio gynyddu, ni chrea hyn faich mawr ynddo’i hun. Sicrheir cydymffurfiad â’r rheolau hyn yn genedlaethol gan aelod-wladwriaethau, a bydd mabwysiadu’r rheoliadau hyn yn sicrhau bod y Cynulliad yn cyflawni’i ddyletswyddau dan gyfraith Cymuned Ewrop. Gwnaethpwyd rheoliadau ar wahân yn Lloegr a’r Alban, ac mae darpariaethau tebyg ar y gweill yng Ngogledd Iwerddon. Gofynnaf ichi gefnogi’r cynnig i gymeradwyo’r rheoliadau.

Peter Rogers spoken in English p. 26

Peter Rogers siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 26

I welcome these regulations because there has been tremendous concern about genetically modified foods. It has not been helped by the recent mix-up over GM seeds that were planted in the United Kingdom by mistake. The Welsh Conservatives welcome these regulations. They will make consumers aware of what they are purchasing in a precise and clear way. The consumer will have a choice, and that is important.

Croesawaf y rheoliadau hyn oherwydd bu pryder aruthrol am fwydydd a addaswyd yn enetig. Ni helpwyd pethau gan y dryswch diweddar dros hadau GM a blannwyd yn y Deyrnas Unedig drwy gamgymeriad. Mae’r Ceidwadwyr Cymreig yn croesawu’r rheoliadau hyn. Byddant yn sicrhau bod defnyddwyr yn ymwybodol o’r hyn y maent yn ei brynu mewn ffordd gywir a chlir. Caiff y defnyddiwr ddewis, ac mae hynny’n bwysig.

Mick Bates spoken in English p. 26

Mick Bates siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 26

These regulations are not controversial in themselves. They set out clear guidelines. There is, however, increasing evidence that consumers want to avoid GM foods. A recent survey found that 65 per cent of Welsh shoppers try to avoid them. We must ensure, therefore, that Welsh consumers are able to see whether their food contains genetically modified organisms or not. The labelling must be clear.

Nid yw’r rheoliadau hyn yn ddadleuol ynddynt eu hunain. Maent yn gosod canllawiau clir. Y mae, fodd bynnag, fwyfwy o dystiolaeth fod defnyddwyr eisiau osgoi bwydydd GM. Canfu arolwg diweddar fod 65 y cant o Gymry’n ceisio osgoi eu prynu. Rhaid inni sicrhau, felly, y gall defnyddwyr Cymru weld a yw eu bwyd yn cynnwys organebau a addaswyd yn enetig ai peidio. Rhaid i’r labelu fod yn eglur.

What I wish to bring to your attention, and what is controversial, is the European Commission Regulation 49/2000 which this Order implements and which sets out a minimum threshold of 1 per cent for the accidental contamination of ingredients with GM material. If genetically modified organisms are present in food below this level, they do not have to be named on the label. The figure of 1 per cent might not sound much, but it is a significant amount. In a 1 kilogram container of food, there would be as much as 10 milligrams of GM material. A number of supermarkets are currently setting the threshold of 0.1 per cent for GM contamination in their GM-free foods. That is one-tenth of the EU’s threshold. A threshold of 0.1 per cent is generally considered to be the lowest sensible level at which GM contamination can be detected. Other countries are taking a firmer line. I ask the Assembly Secretary whether she will investigate if it is possible for the UK Government or the Assembly alone to set a lower contamination threshold than the EU’s 1 per cent? We should be looking at setting the figure closer to the supermarket’s 0.1 per cent. I look forward to your response.

Yr hyn yr hoffwn ei ddwyn i’ch sylw, ac sydd yn fater dadleuol, yw Rheoliad y Comisiwn Ewropeaidd 49/2000 a weithredir gan y Gorchymyn hwn ac sydd yn gosod trothwy isaf o 1 y cant ar gyfer halogiad damweiniol cynhwysion bwyd â deunydd GM. Os yw organebau a addaswyd yn enetig yn bresennol mewn bwyd o dan y lefel hon, nid oes raid eu henwi ar y label. Efallai nad yw’r ffigur 1 y cant yn swnio’n fawr, ond mae’n swm sylweddol. Mewn cynhwysydd 1 cilogram o fwyd, ceid cymaint â 10 miligram o ddeunydd GM. Mae nifer o archfarchnadoedd ar hyn o bryd yn gosod trothwy 0.1 y cant ar gyfer halogiad GM yn eu bwydydd dim-GM. Mae hynny’n ddegfed rhan o drothwy’r UE. Ystyrir yn gyffredinol mai trothwy o 0.1 y cant yw’r lefel synhwyrol isaf y gellir canfod halogiad GM. Mae gwledydd eraill yn llymach na hyn. Gofynnaf i’r Ysgrifennydd Cynulliad a wnaiff hi ymchwilio a ydyw’n bosibl i Lywodraeth y DU neu’r Cynulliad ar ei ben ei hun osod trothwy halogiad is na’r 1 y cant a bennwyd gan yr UE? Dylem fod yn edrych ar osod y ffigur yn nes at ffigur yr archfarchnadoedd o 0.1 y cant. Edrychaf ymlaen at eich ymateb.

Jane Hutt spoken in English p. 27

Jane Hutt siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 27

I am glad that you and Peter welcome these regulations. In relation to your final point, Mick, the regulation makes clear that steps should be taken to keep the level of adventitious contamination in non-GM supplies to a minimum. It is important to note that the 1 per cent level to which you referred applies to soya and maize ingredients and not to the final food product. The level in the food as sold will be much lower. I hope that that provides some reassurance. I am not aware of other countries taking a different line. However, I will undertake to clarify the point about the fact that the level in the food as sold will be much lower and what that 1 per cent means in terms of avoiding that level of adventitious contamination. I move that we adopt these regulations.

Yr wyf yn falch eich bod chi a Peter yn croesawu’r rheoliadau hyn. Ar eich pwynt olaf, Mick, mae’r rheoliad yn datgan yn glir y dylid cymryd camau i gadw lefel halogiad damweiniol mewn cyflenwadau dim-GM i isafswm. Mae’n bwysig nodi mai ffigur ar gyfer cynhwysion soia ac india-corn yw’r lefel 1 y cant y cyfeiriasoch ato, ac nid ar gyfer y cynnyrch bwyd terfynol. Bydd y lefel yn y bwyd fel y’i gwerthir yn llawer is. Gobeithio fod hynny’n rhoi rhyw dawelwch meddwl. Nid wyf yn ymwybodol o wledydd eraill sydd yn gwneud yn wahanol. Fodd bynnag, ymgymeraf i gael eglurhad ar y pwynt ynghylch y ffaith y bydd y lefel yn y bwyd fel y’i gwerthir yn llawer is a beth y mae’r 1 y cant hwnnw’n ei olygu yn nhermau osgoi’r lefel honno o halogiad damweiniol. Cynigiaf ein bod yn derbyn y rheoliadau hyn.

Dafydd Elis-Thomas Y Llywydd siaradwyd yn Gymraeg t. 27

Dafydd Elis-Thomas The Presiding Officer spoken in Welsh p. 27

Pleidleisiwn yn awr ar gymeradwyo egwyddor y Gorchymyn.

We will now vote on approving the principle of the Order.

Cynnig Jane Hutt t. 27

Motion Jane Hutt p. 27

DerbyniwydAdopted O blaidFor 44 YmatalAbstain 0 Yn erbynAgainst 0

Derbyniwyd y cynnig.

Motion adopted.

Sut y pleidleisiodd yr AelodauHow Members voted
O blaidFor (44)
  • Lorraine Barrett
  • Mick Bates
  • Peter Black
  • Nick Bourne
  • Rosemary Butler
  • Christine Chapman
  • Andrew Davies
  • David Davies
  • Geraint Davies
  • Glyn Davies
  • Janet Davies
  • Ron Davies
  • Richard Edwards
  • Sue Essex
  • Delyth Evans
  • Val Feld
  • Michael German
  • Brian Gibbons
  • John Griffiths
  • Christine Gwyther
  • Alison Halford
  • Brian Hancock
  • Jane Hutt
  • Pauline Jarman
  • Ann Jones
  • Carwyn Jones
  • Ieuan Wyn Jones
  • Peter Law
  • Huw Lewis
  • David Lloyd
  • John Marek
  • David Melding
  • Tom Middlehurst
  • Jonathan Morgan
  • Rhodri Morgan
  • Lynne Neagle
  • Alun Pugh
  • Jenny Randerson
  • Peter Rogers
  • Janet Ryder
  • Karen Sinclair
  • Rhodri Glyn Thomas
  • Kirsty Williams
  • Phil Williams

Dafydd Elis-Thomas Y Llywydd siaradwyd yn Gymraeg t. 28

Dafydd Elis-Thomas The Presiding Officer spoken in Welsh p. 28

Pleidleisiwn yn awr ar gymeradwyo’r Gorchymyn

We will now vote on approving the Order

Cynnig Jane Hutt t. 28

Motion Jane Hutt p. 28

DerbyniwydAdopted O blaidFor 43 YmatalAbstain 0 Yn erbynAgainst 0

Derbyniwyd y cynnig.

Motion adopted.

Sut y pleidleisiodd yr AelodauHow Members voted
O blaidFor (43)
  • Lorraine Barrett
  • Mick Bates
  • Peter Black
  • Nick Bourne
  • Rosemary Butler
  • Christine Chapman
  • Andrew Davies
  • David Davies
  • Geraint Davies
  • Glyn Davies
  • Janet Davies
  • Ron Davies
  • Richard Edwards
  • Sue Essex
  • Delyth Evans
  • Val Feld
  • Michael German
  • Brian Gibbons
  • John Griffiths
  • Christine Gwyther
  • Alison Halford
  • Brian Hancock
  • Jane Hutt
  • Pauline Jarman
  • Ann Jones
  • Carwyn Jones
  • Peter Law
  • Huw Lewis
  • David Lloyd
  • John Marek
  • David Melding
  • Tom Middlehurst
  • Jonathan Morgan
  • Rhodri Morgan
  • Lynne Neagle
  • Alun Pugh
  • Jenny Randerson
  • Peter Rogers
  • Janet Ryder
  • Karen Sinclair
  • Rhodri Glyn Thomas
  • Kirsty Williams
  • Phil Williams

Mabwysiadu Cynllun y Sector Gwirfoddol

Adoption of the Voluntary Sector Scheme

Jane Hutt The Secretary for Health and Social Services spoken in English p. 29

Jane Hutt Yr Ysgrifennydd Iechyd a Gwasanaethau Cymdeithasol siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 29

I propose that

Cynigiaf fod

Jane Hutt The Secretary for Health and Social Services (continued) spoken in English p. 30

Jane Hutt Yr Ysgrifennydd Iechyd a Gwasanaethau Cymdeithasol (parhad) siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 30

This motion invites the Assembly to make a scheme that will fulfil the requirements of Section 114 of the Government of Wales Act 1998. Section 114 requires the Assembly to

Mae’r cynnig hwn yn gwahodd y Cynulliad i lunio cynllun a fydd yn cyflawni gofynion Adran 114 Deddf Llywodraeth Cymru 1998. Dan Adran 114, mae’n ofynnol i’r Cynulliad

‘make a scheme setting out how it proposes, in the exercise of its functions, to promote the interests of relevant voluntary organisations’.

‘lunio cynllun yn amlinellu sut y mae’n bwriadu, wrth gyflawni’i swyddogaethau, hyrwyddo buddiannau sefydliadau gwirfoddol perthnasol’.

The motion reflects the importance that the people of Wales have always placed upon community and voluntary activity. It enables us to build on the work of recent years to strengthen the relationship between Government and the voluntary sector. For many in the voluntary sector, including myself before I came into the Assembly, it is the culmination of decades of campaigning by the voluntary sector and community organisations to open the door of Government. We recognise and value the voluntary sector for its vitality and its impact in so many ways in Wales. It is an impact that is an engine for social reform. It is a means of harnessing the contributions of vast numbers of volunteers in Wales. It is a substantial employer contributing to Wales’s economy. It is part of the essential fabric of our local communities, and is a daily means of providing health and support and a voice for many of our citizens. Often, many of our poorest citizens are the most vulnerable and experience discrimination and exclusion.

Mae’r cynnig yn adlewyrchu’r pwysigrwydd y mae’r Cymry wedi’i roi erioed ar weithgaredd cymunedol a gwirfoddol. Mae’n ein galluogi i adeiladu ar waith y blynyddoedd diweddaf i gryfhau’r berthynas rhwng y Llywodraeth a’r sector gwirfoddol. I lawer yn y sector gwirfoddol, gan gynnwys fy hunan cyn imi ddod i’r Cynulliad, dyma benllanw degawdau o ymgyrchu gan y sector gwirfoddol a chyrff cymunedol i agor drws y Llywodraeth. Yr ydym yn cydnabod ac yn gwerthfawrogi’r sector gwirfoddol am ei fywiogrwydd a’i effaith mewn cymaint o ffyrdd ar Gymru. Mae’n beiriant i hybu diwygio cymdeithasol. Mae’n fodd o harneisio cyfraniadau niferoedd mawr iawn o wirfoddolwyr yng Nghymru. Mae’n gyflogwr sylweddol yn cyfrannu at economi Cymru. Mae’n rhan o wead hanfodol ein cymunedau lleol, ac yn fodd dyddiol o ddarparu iechyd a chefnogaeth a llais i lawer o’n dinasyddion. Yn aml, mae llawer o’n dinasyddion tlotaf yn fwy bregus na neb ac yn profi gwahaniaethu yn eu herbyn ac yn cael eu hallgáu.

It is particularly appropriate that we are considering the scheme on the afternoon of the Communities First debate. The coverage of the scheme in the Government of Wales Act supplies a wide and inclusive definition of the voluntary sector, or ‘relevant voluntary organisations’, as it puts it. The definition covers non-statutory bodies whose activities are carried out other than for profit and which directly or indirectly benefit the whole or any part of Wales. This covers the whole complexity of the voluntary sector, from the large organisations with substantial numbers of paid staff to the small local groups running on next to nothing, and everything in between. The diversity of the voluntary sector in Wales—linguistic and multicultural diversity—is a diversity of interests, involvement and membership.

Mae’n arbennig o briodol ein bod yn ystyried y cynllun ar brynhawn y ddadl ar Cymunedau’n Gyntaf. Mae’r sylw i’r cynllun yn Neddf Llywodraeth Cymru’n rhoi diffiniad eang a chynhwysol o’r sector gwirfoddol, neu ‘sefydliadau gwirfoddol perthnasol’, yng ngeiriau’r ddeddf. Mae’r diffiniad yn cynnwys cyrff anstatudol y cyflawnir eu gweithgareddau yn ddi-elw ac sydd yn rhoi budd uniongyrchol neu anuniongyrchol i Gymru gyfan neu unrhyw ran ohoni. Mae hyn yn cwmpasu holl gymhlethdod y sector gwirfoddol, o’r cyrff mawr gyda niferoedd sylweddol o staff cyflogedig i’r grwpiau lleol bychain yn rhedeg ar y nesaf peth i ddim, a phopeth yn y canol. Mae amrywiaeth y sector gwirfoddol yng Nghymru—amrywiaeth ieithyddol ac aml-ddiwylliannol—yn amrywiaeth o fuddiannau, cyfranogiad ac aelodaeth.

This is the first of the Assembly’s statutory schemes to reach its final stage. In making the scheme we will be taking a unique step in Wales. There is no such requirement in England, Scotland or Northern Ireland. As far as I am aware, there is no such statutory scheme involving the voluntary sector anywhere else in Europe. The voluntary sector scheme is a fitting example of the way in which the Assembly seeks to work with and for the people of Wales. It puts into practice our values of inclusiveness and partnership—working together to ensure that Wales and all our citizens can fulfil their potential. How do we ensure that this scheme works effectively? Once made, the scheme will put the policy and principles that are set out in the chapters that you will have read, on a statutory basis. It will govern our relationship with the voluntary sector now and for the foreseeable future. An important element is the establishment of the Voluntary Sector Partnership Council. This puts the voluntary sector on an equal footing with local government and business in our partnership arrangements with the Assembly.

Dyma’r cyntaf o gynlluniau statudol y Cynulliad i gyrraedd ei gam terfynol. Wrth lunio’r cynllun byddwn yn cymryd cam unigryw yng Nghymru. Nid oes gofyniad o’r fath yn Lloegr, yr Alban na Gogledd Iwerddon. Hyd y gwn i, nid oes cynllun statudol o’r fath ar gyfer y sector gwirfoddol yn unlle arall yn Ewrop. Mae cynllun y sector gwirfoddol yn enghraifft addas o’r modd y ceisia’r Cynulliad weithio gyda phobl Cymru a throstynt. Mae’n rhoi’n gwerthoedd ar waith o ran cynhwysiant a phartneriaeth—gweithio gyda’n gilydd i sicrhau y gall Cymru a’n holl ddinasyddion gyflawni’u potensial. Sut mae sicrhau y bydd y cynllun hwn yn gweithio’n effeithiol? Wedi ei lunio, bydd y cynllun yn gosod y polisi a’r egwyddorion a amlinellir yn y penodau y byddwch wedi’u darllen, ar sail statudol. Bydd yn llywodraethu’n perthynas â’r sector gwirfoddol yn awr ac yn y dyfodol rhagweladwy. Elfen bwysig yw sefydlu Cyngor Partneriaeth y Sector Gwirfoddol. Mae hyn yn rhoi’r sector gwirfoddol ar droedle cydradd â llywodraeth leol a busnes yn ein trefniadau partneriaeth gyda’r Cynulliad.

Last July we set up the shadow Voluntary Sector Partnership Council, which brings together Assembly Members from all political parties and voluntary sector representatives from right across the voluntary sector. In its shadow form, which I am pleased to have been chairing, it has already made a valuable contribution to the way that we work in the Assembly, demonstrating the need for a standing partnership arrangement of this type to be established on a permanent footing. We have met four times. We have talked about European funding, community development, improving the public appointments system, as well as the need for a strategic view of funding the voluntary sector. We have already discussed the implications of the new strategic plan ‘Betterwales.com’, and budget planning. Much has already been done by the Assembly in learning from the voluntary sector. In the Health and Social Services Committee, as a result of contact with carers’ organisations, children’s organisations and mental health organisations, all our policies have been influenced. This scheme will imbed that in all our policy-making. Assembly Secretaries will meet voluntary sector representatives at least twice a year to discuss areas of interest. We will consider the budget planning round and funding at those meetings. We will also have to produce a report. The Assembly is required under the Government of Wales Act 1998 to publish a report in every financial year on how we are implementing the scheme in Wales.

Fis Gorffennaf diwethaf sefydlasom Gyngor Partneriaeth cysgodol y Sector Gwirfoddol, sydd yn dwyn ynghyd Aelodau’r Cynulliad o bob plaid wleidyddol a chynrychiolwyr o’r sector gwirfoddol o’r naill begwn i’r llall. Yn ei ffurf gysgodol, y bûm yn falch o’i chadeirio, gwnaeth gyfraniad gwerthfawr eisoes at y ffordd y gweithiwn yn y Cynulliad, gan ddangos yr angen am sefydlu trefniant partneriaeth sefydlog o’r math hwn ar sail barhaol. Yr ydym wedi cyfarfod bedair gwaith, gan drafod arian Ewrop, datblygu cymunedol, gwella’r system benodiadau cyhoeddus, yn ogystal â’r angen am olwg strategol ar ddull ariannu’r sector gwirfoddol. Yr ydym eisoes wedi trafod goblygiadau’r cynllun strategol newydd ‘Gwellcymru.com’, a chynllunio cyllidebol. Eisoes dysgodd y Cynulliad lawer oddi wrth y sector gwirfoddol. Yn y Pwyllgor Iechyd a Gwasanaethau Cymdeithasol, o ganlyniad i fod mewn cysylltiad â sefydliadau gofalwyr, sefydliadau plant a sefydliadau iechyd meddwl, dylanwadwyd ar ein polisïau i gyd. Bydd y cynllun yn plannu hynny yn ein holl waith llunio polisi. Bydd Ysgrifenyddion Cynulliad yn cyfarfod â chynrychiolwyr y sector gwirfoddol o leiaf ddwy waith y flwyddyn i drafod meysydd o ddiddordeb. Byddwn yn ystyried cylch cynllunio’r gyllideb ac ariannu yn y cyfarfodydd hynny. Bydd yn rhaid inni lunio adroddiad hefyd. Mae’n ofynnol dan Ddeddf Llywodraeth Cymru 1998 i’r Cynulliad gyhoeddi adroddiad ym mhob blwyddyn ariannol ar y modd yr ydym yn gweithredu’r cynllun yng Nghymru.

Much has already been achieved, but the voluntary sector is out there waiting and wanting to be part of the statutory scheme. That is a first for Wales and a first for us. There is much more to do. We need to consider streamlining our funding arrangements—sustainable funding is so important. We are looking at our partnership with European funding. The three-thirds arrangements on regional and local management boards are important in getting our European projects right. We need to look more at community participation, and we need to consider how the Assembly can support the voluntary sector to enable it to contribute to ‘Betterwales.com’ in partnership with us.

Cyflawnwyd llawer yn barod, ond mae’r sector gwirfoddol allan acw yn aros ac yn awyddus i fod yn rhan o’r cynllun statudol. Yn hynny mae Cymru ar y blaen ac yr ydym ni ar y blaen. Mae llawer mwy i’w wneud. Mae angen inni ystyried effeithlonni’n trefniadau ariannu—mae ariannu cynaliadwy mor bwysig. Yr ydym yn edrych ar ein partneriaeth gydag arian Ewrop. Mae’r trefniadau tri-thraean ar fyrddau rheoli rhanbarthol a lleol yn bwysig er mwyn sicrhau bod ein prosiectau Ewropeaidd yn iawn. Mae angen inni edrych fwy ar gyfranogiad cymunedol, ac mae angen inni ystyried sut y gall y Cynulliad gefnogi’r sector gwirfoddol i’w alluogi i gyfrannu at ‘Gwellcymru.com’ mewn partneriaeth â ni.

It is incumbent upon the Assembly, in implementing this important scheme, to provide leadership to other public bodies to demonstrate how we are engaging positively with the voluntary sector. I urge you to support the motion, which was agreed at the last shadow Voluntary Sector Partnership Council. We agreed it together—all the political parties and voluntary sector members across the range of diverse interests in Wales. We want to move forward together. These are our powers, unique to Wales, implemented one year after our birth. Let us move forward and use them.

Rhaid i’r Cynulliad, wrth weithredu’r cynllun pwysig hwn, ddarparu arweiniad i gyrff cyhoeddus eraill i arddangos sut yr ydym ni’n ymwneud mewn modd cadarnhaol â’r sector gwirfoddol. Anogaf chi i gefnogi’r cynnig, a gytunwyd yng nghyfarfod diwethaf Cyngor Partneriaeth cysgodol y Sector Gwirfoddol. Cytunodd pawb ohonom arno gyda’n gilydd—pob plaid wleidyddol ac aelodau’r sector gwirfoddol ar draws yr amrediad o wahanol fuddiannau yng Nghymru. Mae arnom eisiau symud ymlaen gyda’n gilydd. Dyma’n pwerau ni, yn unigryw i Gymru, wedi dod i rym flwyddyn ar ôl ein geni. Symudwn ymlaen a’u defnyddio.

David Melding spoken in English p. 33

David Melding siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 33

I am delighted to speak in this debate and to reiterate what Jane has already said in her excellent speech. The motion before us has all-party support as well as the voluntary sector’s support. If I may speak as a slightly sceptical Tory, this is the most positive outcome that we have had from devolution so far—the way the voluntary sector will be engaged in a comprehensive and strategic fashion. It is a good and exciting development in democracy. I noted the references that Jane made to the other parts of Britain, and indeed the other parts of Europe. We have the scheme now; it will get up and running and we must ensure that it will be a great success—its potential for good practice is vast. The Conservative group is committed to the Voluntary Sector Partnership Council. We will work on that in a vigorous and sustained fashion and we see it as a strategic mechanism for all the years ahead of us to work to make devolution a success.

Mae’n bleser siarad yn y ddadl hon ac ailadrodd yr hyn a ddywedodd Jane eisoes yn ei haraith ardderchog. Mae’r cynnig ger ein bron wedi’i gefnogi gan y pleidiau i gyd yn ogystal â’r sector gwirfoddol. Os caf siarad fel Tori sydd yn amau ychydig, dyma’r canlyniad mwyaf cadarnhaol hyd yma i ddatganoli—y ffordd y caiff y sector gwirfoddol gyfranogi mewn modd cynhwysfawr a strategol. Mae’n ddatblygiad da a chyffrous yn ein democratiaeth. Nodais y cyfeiriadau a wnaeth Jane at rannau eraill o Brydain, ac yn wir rannau eraill o Ewrop. Mae’r cynllun gennym yn awr; rhaid inni ei roi ar waith a sicrhau y bydd yn llwyddiant mawr—mae ganddo botensial anferth ar gyfer ymarfer da. Mae’r grŵp Ceidwadol wedi ymrwymo i Gyngor Partneriaeth y Sector Gwirfoddol. Gweithiwn ar hwnnw yn egnïol a chyson ac fe’i gwelwn fel mecanwaith strategol ar gyfer yr holl flynyddoedd o’n blaenau i weithio i sicrhau bod datganoli’n llwyddiant.

I will not go over the role of the voluntary sector—it is vast, and Jane has alluded to it already. However, I wish to note that it is rooted in the community. That is perhaps the greatest advantage of engaging the voluntary sector. We know directly what people are saying to us in their involvement in the voluntary sector, in the issues that they identify as needing more attention, or the good practice that they have discovered that needs to be made common practice. All these things are provided in the best and most direct way by the voluntary sector. It is not going too far to say that at the heart of a healthy civic society there is a flourishing voluntary sector.

Nid af dros rôl y sector gwirfoddol—mae’n anferth, ac mae Jane wedi cyfeirio ato’n barod. Fodd bynnag, hoffwn nodi ei fod wedi gwreiddio yn y gymuned. Dyna efallai fantais fwyaf cynnwys y sector gwirfoddol. Gwyddom yn uniongyrchol beth y mae pobl yn ei ddweud wrthym yn eu gwaith yn y sector gwirfoddol, yn y materion a nodir ganddynt fel rhai sydd angen mwy o sylw, neu’r ymarfer da y maent wedi’i ddarganfod sydd angen ei ledaenu i fod yn ymarfer cyffredin. Darperir yr holl bethau hyn yn y ffordd orau a mwyaf uniongyrchol gan y sector gwirfoddol. Nid gormodiaith yw dweud mai sector gwirfoddol ffyniannus sydd wrth wraidd cymdeithas ddinesig wâr.

We have much to do with the voluntary sector. The Assembly relies on the voluntary sector to deliver services directly to people, to give us policy advice, to ensure that the best solutions are found and that the policy issues that need to be tackled are identified. Also, many people in the most vulnerable sections of society rely on the voluntary sector to be their advocate. That is an important role. It helps us in delivering all sorts of services to ensure that when we are achieving public good, those groups who are perhaps vulnerable to certain reforms that we may be making or considering can take their cases forward and argue for them in the most direct way.

Mae gennym lawer i’w wneud gyda’r sector gwirfoddol. Mae’r Cynulliad yn dibynnu ar y sector gwirfoddol i roi gwasanaethau’n uniongyrchol i bobl, i roi cyngor inni ar bolisi, i sicrhau y canfyddir yr atebion gorau ac y nodir y materion polisi y mae angen mynd i’r afael â hwy. Hefyd, mae nifer o bobl yn rhannau mwyaf bregus cymdeithas yn dibynnu ar y sector gwirfoddol i eiriol drostynt. Mae hynny’n rôl bwysig. Mae’n ein helpu wrth ddarparu pob math o wasanaethau os sicrhawn pan fyddwn yn cyflawni pethau da dros y cyhoedd, y caiff y grwpiau hynny sydd efallai’n mynd i ddioddef yn sgîl newidiadau yr ydym am eu gwneud neu yn eu hystyried, gyflwyno’u hachosion a dadlau drostynt yn y modd mwyaf uniongyrchol.

We owe the voluntary sector a coherent partnership. I welcome the scheme because it takes us forward on that. We must ensure that the following things are in place, and that the new council will ensure that they are provided and will monitor them. Reliable funding—ideally a three-year cycle—must be provided. The desperate lurch from one year to another in a budgetary process is no way to run a show, and we should not put the voluntary sector in that position. We also need genuine participation in policy-making, which usually means involving the voluntary sector and others early in policy formulation. The publish and consult model, which, unfortunately, prevailed for many years, must now be a thing of the past. The voluntary sector needs a fair deal from the statutory sector across the board, including local government and Assembly sponsored public bodies. All of these are essential in providing a thorough and effective scheme for the voluntary sector. This scheme provides us with a mechanism to achieve that in the future, but vigilance will be required. It is not something that once it is achieved, a box is ticked and it is there forever; it requires ongoing partnership and hard work. I am sure that, with the goodwill of all parties in the Assembly, it will be a success.

Ein dyled i’r sector gwirfoddol yw partneriaeth gydlynol. Croesawaf y cynllun am ei fod yn gam ymlaen yn hynny o beth. Rhaid inni sicrhau bod y pethau canlynol yn eu lle, ac y bydd y cyngor newydd yn sicrhau y cânt eu darparu ac yn eu monitro. Rhaid darparu—cylch tair blynedd fyddai’n ddelfrydol—ariannu dibynadwy. Nid yw hercian yn wyllt o un flwyddyn i’r nesaf mewn proses gyllidebol yn ffordd iawn o redeg sioe, ac ni ddylem roi’r sector gwirfoddol yn y sefyllfa honno. Mae arnom angen cyfranogiad go-iawn yn y broses o lunio polisi hefyd, sydd fel arfer yn golygu cynnwys y sector gwirfoddol ac eraill yn gynnar wrth ffurfio polisïau. Rhaid i’r model cyhoeddi ac ymgynghori, a fu’n gyffredin am flynyddoedd lawer ysywaeth, bellach gael ei adael ar ôl. Mae ar y sector gwirfoddol angen bargen deg gan y sector statudol ar draws y bwrdd, gan gynnwys llywodraeth leol a chyrff cyhoeddus a noddir gan y Cynulliad. Mae’r rhain i gyd yn hanfodol i ddarparu cynllun trwyadl ac effeithiol i’r sector gwirfoddol. Darpara’r cynllun hwn fecanwaith inni gyflawni hynny yn y dyfodol, ond bydd angen cadw llygad barcud. Nid yw’n rhywbeth a gyflawnir unwaith ac am byth, gan roi tic mewn blwch a’i sefydlu’n dragwyddol; mae’n gofyn am waith caled a phartneriaeth barhaus. Gydag ewyllys da’r holl bleidiau yn y Cynulliad, yr wyf yn siŵr y bydd yn llwyddiant.

Mick Bates spoken in English p. 34

Mick Bates siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 34

The Liberal Democrats welcome this unique document, which has at its heart the empowerment of people in the voluntary sector and the improvement of the quality of life of many others—a process that the Liberal Democrats fully support. The document is part of four steps in bringing the voluntary sector to an equal place in our society, with Government and the private sector. Those steps are recognition, representation, partnership and resourcing. In accepting this scheme today, we will give full recognition to the voluntary sector in Wales and its part in Welsh life and our communities.

Mae’r Democratiaid Rhyddfrydol yn croesawu’r ddogfen unigryw hon, sydd yn seiliedig ar roi grym i bobl yn y sector gwirfoddol a gwella ansawdd bywyd llawer o bobl eraill—proses y mae’r Democratiaid Rhyddfrydol yn ei chefnogi i’r carn. Mae’r ddogfen yn rhan o bedwar cam i ddod â’r sector gwirfoddol i safle cydradd yn ein cymdeithas, gyda’r Llywodraeth a’r sector preifat. Cydnabyddiaeth, cynrychiolaeth, partneriaeth ac adnoddau yw’r pedwar cam hynny. Wrth dderbyn y cynllun hwn heddiw, rhoddwn gydnabyddiaeth lawn i’r sector gwirfoddol yng Nghymru a’i ran yn y bywyd Cymreig a’n cymunedau.

Yesterday, the Welsh Liberal Democrats launched their report into the voluntary sector, ‘Funding for the Future’. The report emphasised the need to recognise the value of volunteers’ work, which is worth £3.4 billion to our economy. For example, 90 per cent of our community care is provided by carers free of charge, saving the Government an estimated £1.7 billion a year in Wales. Our report, which you are all welcome to see, was based on a survey of 200 groups.

Ddoe, lansiodd y Democratiaid Rhyddfrydol Cymreig eu hadroddiad ar y sector gwirfoddol, ‘Ariannu ar gyfer y Dyfodol’. Pwysleisiodd yr adroddiad yr angen i gydnabod gwerth gwaith gwirfoddolwyr, sydd yn werth £3.4 biliwn i’n heconomi. Er enghraifft, darperir 90 y cant o’n gofal yn y gymuned gan ofalwyr yn ddi-dâl, gan arbed amcangyfrif o £1.7 biliwn y flwyddyn i’r Llywodraeth yng Nghymru. Seiliwyd ein hadroddiad, y mae croeso i bawb ohonoch ei weld, ar arolwg o 200 o grwpiau.

The second step is representation, which provides a voice for all communities and voluntary groups in Wales. We will be inclusive. Every organisation has a right for its voice to be heard, and this document provides for that. This has never been more so than with the advent of European structural funding. Organisations need to know how to access the money. A dialogue will need to be established at a local level with local authorities and at a national level to agree long-term objectives and a code of practice, which I hope will state that no volunteers will be out of pocket because of their activities.

Cynrychiolaeth yw’r ail gam, sydd yn darparu llais i bob cymuned a grŵp gwirfoddol yng Nghymru. Byddwn yn gynhwysol. Mae gan bob corff hawl i sicrhau y clywir ei lais, ac mae’r ddogfen hon yn darparu ar gyfer hynny. Ni fu hyn erioed cyn wired ag y mae yn awr gyda dyfodiad cronfeydd strwythurol Ewrop. Mae ar sefydliadau angen gwybod sut i gael at yr arian. Bydd angen sefydlu deialog ar lefel leol gydag awdurdodau lleol ac ar lefel genedlaethol i gytuno ar amcanion tymor hir a chod ymarfer, a fydd, gobeithio, yn dweud na fydd unrhyw wirfoddolwyr ar eu colled oherwydd eu gweithgareddau.

Partnership must mean that those views get through. The biggest action needed is to improve resources. Implementation of these fine ideals—recognition, representation and partnership—needs core funding We have heard mention of the annual scramble for next year’s money. Our survey showed that 70 per cent of voluntary sector funding is for one year, 45 per cent of organisations experience staffing problems because of the late notification of grants and 96 per cent said that three- to five-year funding would be of significant benefit to their organisations. One of the replies that we received said

Rhaid i bartneriaeth olygu fod y farn honno’n dod drwodd. Y peth mwyaf sydd angen ei wneud yw gwella adnoddau. I weithredu’r delfrydau gwych hyn—cydnabyddiaeth, cynrychiolaeth a phartneriaeth—mae angen arian craidd. Clywsom sôn am yr ymrafael blynyddol am arian y flwyddyn nesaf. Dangosodd ein harolwg fod 70 y cant o gyllid y sector gwirfoddol yn gyllid am un flwyddyn, bod 45 y cant o sefydliadau’n cael problemau staffio oherwydd eu bod mor hwyr yn cael gwybod am grantiau ac y dywedodd 96 y cant y byddai cyllid tair- i bum-mlynedd o fudd sylweddol i’w sefydliadau. Dyma ddywedodd un o’r atebion a gawsom:

‘It is difficult to express how much increased long-term funding would mean to our organisation. Sourcing and applying for additional funding takes up an inordinate amount of time, which would be better spent on the real issues.’

‘Anodd yw mynegi gymaint y byddai cynnydd mewn cyllid tymor hir yn ei olygu i’n sefydliad. Mae canfod a gwneud ceisiadau am gyllid ychwanegol yn cymryd llawer iawn o amser, y byddai’n well ei dreulio ar y materion go-iawn.’

We welcome the commitment towards three-year funding. I would like us to make a start soon by providing three-year adequate core funding to Wales’s citizens advice bureaux. The funding process would mean that the voluntary sector would have to be involved early in the budgeting stage. It is essential to have a clear, long-term plan. I also hope that this body will develop a meaningful action plan with a clear timescale.

Croesawn yr ymrwymiad tuag at gyllid tair blynedd. Hoffwn inni gychwyn yn fuan drwy ddarparu cyllid craidd digonol am dair blynedd i ganolfannau cynghori Cymru. Byddai’r broses ariannu’n golygu y byddai’n rhaid cynnwys y sector gwirfoddol yn gynnar yn y cam llunio cyllideb. Rhaid wrth gynllun clir, tymor hir. Gobeithiaf hefyd y gwnaiff y corff hwn ddatblygu cynllun gweithredu ystyrlon gyda rhaglen amser glir.

The voluntary sector’s success depends on adequate funding from local authorities and on our ability to establish clear, user-friendly means of accessing European structural funds. I am pleased that, at last, we have an Objective 3 leaflet. It describes itself as a simple guide for project applicants. I hope that it will be issued swiftly to all voluntary organisations so that they can start working on their applications.

Dibynna llwyddiant y sector gwirfoddol ar gyllid digonol gan awdurdodau lleol ac ar ein gallu ni i sefydlu dulliau clir a hawdd o fynd at yr arian strwythurol o Ewrop. Yr wyf yn falch fod gennym daflen Amcan 1 o’r diwedd. Mae’n disgrifio’i hun fel arweiniad syml i ymgeiswyr â phrosiectau. Gobeithio y caiff ei dosbarthu’n ddi-oed i bob mudiad gwirfoddol fel y gallant ddechrau gweithio ar eu ceisiadau.

We must guard against creating too many bureaucratic structures that deliver actions for themselves and not for the people whom they purport to represent. The voluntary sector in Wales delivers so much to so many in so many different ways. The Assembly has a duty to ensure that the fine words result in fine deeds. The Liberal Democrats support this document.

Rhaid gochel rhag creu gormod o adeileddau biwrocrataidd sydd yn gweithredu drostynt eu hunain ac nid dros y bobl yr honnant eu bod yn eu cynrychioli. Mae’r sector gwirfoddol yng Nghymru’n rhoi cymaint i gynifer o bobl mewn cymaint o wahanol ffyrdd. Mae’n ddyletswydd ar y Cynulliad i sicrhau bod geiriau teg yn arwain at weithredoedd teg. Mae’r Democratiaid Rhyddfrydol yn cefnogi’r ddogfen hon.

Helen Mary Jones spoken in English p. 36

Helen Mary Jones siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 36

Thank you, Llywydd, for your indulgence in allowing me to speak after I inadvertently missed the beginning of the debate. It is much appreciated.

Diolch, Lywydd, am eich hynawsedd yn caniatáu imi siarad wedi imi ddigwydd colli dechrau’r ddadl. Fe’i gwerthfawrogir yn fawr.

Dafydd Elis-Thomas The Presiding Officer spoken in English p. 37

Dafydd Elis-Thomas Y Llywydd siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 37

I will not do so for anyone in future.

Ni wnaf hynny i neb yn y dyfodol.

Helen Mary Jones spoken in English p. 37

Helen Mary Jones siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 37

I extend a warm welcome on behalf of Plaid Cymru—The Party of Wales to the voluntary sector scheme. I was involved in the process of negotiating it in the pre-devolution days. It is nice to see it coming to fruition. It reflects the real spirit of partnership and I am sure that Assembly Members who are members of the Partnership Council will acknowledge that that council represents the spirit of true partnership. It is not always cosy; the meetings can be challenging for Assembly Members and for the Government of Wales. That is healthy and positive.

Rhoddaf groeso cynnes ar ran Plaid Cymru—The Party of Wales i gynllun y sector gwirfoddol. Bu gennyf ran yn y broses o’i negodi yn y dyddiau cyn datganoli. Braf yw ei weld yn dwyn ffrwyth. Mae’n adlewyrchu gwir ysbryd partneriaeth ac yr wyf yn siŵr y bydd Aelodau’r Cynulliad sydd yn aelodau o’r Cyngor Partneriaeth yn cydnabod fod y cyngor hwnnw’n cynrychioli ysbryd gwir bartneriaeth. Nid yw bob amser yn gysurus; gall y cyfarfodydd osod her i Aelodau’r Cynulliad ac i Lywodraeth Cymru. Mae hynny’n beth iach a chadarnhaol.

Some issues remain to be addressed to make the partnership a reality. The most vital of those is funding. It is essential that the voluntary sector is fully involved in budget processes and discussions. Voluntary sector colleagues seek parity, as far as possible, with local government colleagues. Practical steps have been taken in this direction but people are impatient to see the outcome. A move towards three-year funding for nationally funded voluntary sector organisations is also crucial, as are discussions with local authorities with a view to achieving more three-year funding agreements at a local level, always of course, predicated on proper service level agreements with the voluntary sector organisation involved.

Mae angen rhoi sylw i ambell fater o hyd er mwyn gwireddu’r bartneriaeth. Y mwyaf allweddol o’r rhain yw arian. Rhaid i’r sector gwirfoddol gael ei gynnwys yn llawn ym mhrosesau a thrafodaethau’r gyllideb. Mae gweithwyr y sector gwirfoddol yn gofyn am gydraddoldeb, hyd y bo modd, â gweithwyr llywodraeth leol. Cymerwyd camau ymarferol i’r cyfeiriad hwn ond mae pobl yn ddiamynedd i weld y canlyniad. Mae symud tuag at gyllid tair blynedd i sefydliadau’r sector gwirfoddol a ariennir yn genedlaethol yn fater allweddol hefyd, ynghyd â thrafodaethau gydag awdurdodau lleol gyda golwg ar sicrhau mwy o gytundebau ariannu tair blynedd ar lefel leol, a hynny, wrth reswm, bob amser yn seiliedig ar gytundebau lefel gwasanaeth priodol gyda’r corff sector gwirfoddol dan sylw.

The scheme is welcome. However, as with so many initiatives that the Assembly discusses, the jury is still out. We, as a party, and colleagues in the voluntary sector, warmly welcome the scheme’s principles but we are waiting to see whether the Government of Wales can turn the rhetoric into reality. Members of Plaid Cymru—The Party of Wales on the Partnership Council will do all in their power to ensure that that happens.

Croesewir y cynllun. Fodd bynnag, fel gyda chymaint o fentrau a drafodir gan y Cynulliad, mae’r rheithgor yn dal i fod allan. Yr ydym ni, fel plaid, a chydaelodau yn y sector gwirfoddol, yn croesawu egwyddorion y cynllun yn galonogol ond yr ydym yn aros i weld a all Llywodraeth Cymru droi’r rhethreg yn realiti. Gwnaiff aelodau Plaid Cymru—The Party of Wales ar y Cyngor Partneriaeth bopeth yn eu gallu i sicrhau y digwydd hynny.

Jane Hutt spoken in English p. 37

Jane Hutt siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 37

I am grateful for the goodwill and support of all speakers this afternoon. It is an important day for us, as we have recognised. We love the Tory sceptic in our ranks, David. You make a huge contribution in the Partnership Council, in the Health and Social Services Committee, and in Plenary. You also bring us your experience. You know what it is like because you have been involved in the voluntary sector, as have Mick and Helen Mary. It is important that we bring to this debate and scheme our experiences of the voluntary sector and what it is like to be at the sharp end. I liked David’s expression about the voluntary sector being at the heart of a healthy civic society.

Yr wyf yn ddiolchgar am ewyllys da a chefnogaeth pob siaradwr y prynhawn yma. Mae’n ddiwrnod pwysig i ni, fel yr ydym wedi cydnabod. Yr ydym yn caru’r amheuwr o Dori yn ein rhengoedd, David. Mae eich cyfraniad yn aruthrol yn y Cyngor Partneriaeth, yn y Pwyllgor Iechyd a Gwasanaethau Cymdeithasol ac yn y Cyfarfodydd Llawn. Daethoch â’ch profiad inni hefyd. Gwyddoch sut y mae hi oherwydd yr ydych wedi bod yn ymwneud â’r sector gwirfoddol, fel Mick a Helen Mary hwythau. Mae’n bwysig ein bod yn cyfrannu i’r ddadl a’r cynllun hwn ein profiadau o’r sector gwirfoddol a’r profiad o fod ar flaen y gad. Hoffais ymadrodd David fod y sector gwirfoddol wrth galon cymdeithas ddinesig iach.

This is about how we make inclusiveness work in Wales and in the Assembly. If the voluntary sector and civic society are not at the heart of our debate, we will not be inclusive, we will be a talking shop. We will be politicians arguing with each other instead of listening to people who know what it is like. We must retain the vibrancy and independence of the voluntary sector in this partnership. Helen Mary and Mick made many of these points. We must ensure that the voluntary sector keeps its distinct and strong voice to keep us on our toes in terms of our commitment. This scheme provides us with the framework to do that. We must ensure that the voluntary sector speaks up as an advocate for people who experience discrimination and exclusion and also continues to break new ground in terms of policy. We must ensure that it has the means to do that. That is about funding and about ensuring that our code of practice, which we are developing with the voluntary sector, mentions core funding and three-year funding, Mick. We must ensure that the three-thirds involvement in the European partnership is a reality and that the voluntary sector is included. We must then ensure in terms of local funding, which is critical, that the compacts with local government are implemented because many local organisations are dependent on local authority funding. I am looking forward to reading your report, Mick. I am sure it will be useful. We must recognise that the voluntary sector contributes to Wales’s economy. The annual income of the voluntary sector is estimated to be 2.2 per cent of our gross domestic product. We have talked about the sector’s contribution in terms of the social economy. We must also recognise the voluntary sector’s strong claims to contribute to the vibrancy and the economic prosperity of Wales.

Mae a wnelo hyn â’r modd y gwnawn i’r drefn gynhwysol weithio yng Nghymru ac yn y Cynulliad. Os na fydd y sector gwirfoddol a chymdeithas ddinesig wrth galon ein dadl, ni fyddwn yn gynhwysol, siop siarad fyddwn ni. Gwleidyddion yn dadlau gyda’i gilydd fyddwn ni yn lle gwrando ar bobl sydd yn gwybod sut beth ydyw. Rhaid inni gadw egni ac annibyniaeth y sector gwirfoddol yn y bartneriaeth hon. Gwnaeth Helen Mary a Mick lawer o’r pwyntiau hyn. Rhaid inni sicrhau bod y sector gwirfoddol yn cadw’i lais arbennig a chryf er mwyn ein cadw ar flaenau’n traed yn nhermau’n hymroddiad. Mae’r cynllun hwn yn darparu’r fframwaith inni wneud hynny. Rhaid inni sicrhau bod y sector gwirfoddol yn codi’i lais i eiriol dros bobl sydd yn dioddef camwahaniaethu ac allgáu a’i fod hefyd yn parhau i dorri tir newydd yn nhermau polisi. Rhaid inni sicrhau bod ganddo’r modd i wneud hynny. Mae a wnelo hynny ag ariannu ac â sicrhau bod ein cod ymarfer, yr ydym wrthi’n ei ddatblygu gyda’r sector gwirfoddol, yn crybwyll ariannu craidd ac ariannu tair blynedd, Mick. Rhaid inni sicrhau bod yr ymwneud tri-thraean â’r bartneriaeth Ewropeaidd yn realiti a bod y sector gwirfoddol wedi’i gynnwys. Rhaid inni wedyn sicrhau yn nhermau ariannu lleol, sydd yn allweddol, y gweithredir y compactau gyda llywodraeth leol oherwydd mae llawer o gyrff lleol yn ddibynnol ar gyllid awdurdod lleol. Yr wyf yn edrych ymlaen at ddarllen eich adroddiad, Mick. Yr wyf yn siŵr y bydd yn ddefnyddiol. Rhaid inni gydnabod bod y sector gwirfoddol yn cyfrannu at economi Cymru. Amcangyfrifir bod incwm blynyddol y sector gwirfoddol yn 2.2 y cant o’n cynnyrch mewnwladol crynswth. Yr ydym wedi sôn am gyfraniad y sector yn nhermau’r economi gymdeithasol. Rhaid inni gydnabod hefyd gais cryf y sector gwirfoddol i gyfrannu at egni a ffyniant economaidd Cymru.

Part of the voluntary sector scheme will be a connection to the Government of Wales. The voluntary sector will meet Assembly Secretaries at least twice a year and also during the crucial budget planning round. If we want the voluntary sector to help us deliver ‘Betterwales.com’ it has to be part of our decision making and discussions on budget planning and how we achieve our objectives. It will be the responsibility of all of us to ensure that this scheme is implemented. We have the right starting point today in improving this scheme and recognise that we have a long way to go to back that participation.

Bydd rhan o gynllun y sector gwirfoddol yn creu cysylltiad â Llywodraeth Cymru. Bydd y sector gwirfoddol yn cwrdd ag Ysgrifenyddion y Cynulliad o leiaf ddwy waith y flwyddyn a hefyd yn ystod cylch cynllunio allweddol y gyllideb. Os ydym am i’r sector gwirfoddol ein helpu i weithredu ‘Gwellcymru.com’ rhaid iddo fod yn rhan o’n proses wneud penderfyniadau a’n trafodaethau ar gynllunio’r gyllideb a sut y cyflawnwn ein hamcanion. Ein cyfrifoldeb ni oll fydd sicrhau y gweithredir y cynllun hwn. Mae gennym y man cychwyn iawn heddiw o ran gwella’r cynllun hwn a chydnabod fod gennym ffordd bell i fynd i gefnogi’r cyfranogiad hwnnw.

Finally, in encouraging participation in policy by bringing users, carers and the voluntary sector into our decision making process, we must recognise that that means starting at the beginning, not at the end. It also means resources, building capacity and ensuring that not only the strongest voices in the voluntary sector speak up; that the black and ethnic minority voluntary sector, for example, speaks up, that disabled groups have their voice, that those small groups with small voices can engage with us through this scheme. Thank you for this impressive endorsement. This time next year we will have the first annual report. I want people to note that this is a historical moment. This is a power that we have not fully used yet. We often talk about our powers and how we use them. This is a new power, which is unique to Wales. It is about the Assembly being different. This is a great day for the voluntary sector and for the people of Wales.

Yn olaf, wrth annog cyfranogiad mewn llunio polisi drwy gynnwys defnyddwyr, gofalwyr a’r sector gwirfoddol yn ein proses wneud penderfyniadau, rhaid inni gydnabod bod hynny’n golygu dechrau yn y dechrau, nid yn y diwedd. Mae hefyd yn golygu adnoddau, adeiladu gallu a sicrhau nad dim ond y lleisiau cryfaf yn y sector gwirfoddol a glywir; y clywir llais y sector gwirfoddol croenddu a lleiafrifoedd ethnig, er enghraifft, y clywir llais grwpiau’r anabl, y gall y grwpiau bach hynny â lleisiau bach gyfathrebu â ni drwy’r cynllun hwn. Diolch ichi am y cadarnhad clodwiw hwn. Yr adeg yma y flwyddyn nesaf fe gawn yr adroddiad blynyddol cyntaf. Mae arnaf eisiau i bobl nodi fod hon yn foment hanesyddol. Dyma rym nad ydym wedi’i ddefnyddio’n llawn eto. Soniwn yn aml am ein pwerau a sut i’w defnyddio. Mae hwn yn bŵer newydd, sydd yn unigryw i Gymru. Mae’n dweud bod y Cynulliad yn wahanol. Mae hwn yn ddiwrnod mawr i’r sector gwirfoddol ac i bobl Cymru.

Cynnig Jane Hutt t. 39

Motion Jane Hutt p. 39

DerbyniwydAdopted O blaidFor 40 YmatalAbstain 0 Yn erbynAgainst 0

Derbyniwyd y cynnig.

Motion adopted.

Sut y pleidleisiodd yr AelodauHow Members voted
O blaidFor (40)
  • Lorraine Barrett
  • Mick Bates
  • Peter Black
  • Rosemary Butler
  • Christine Chapman
  • Andrew Davies
  • David Davies
  • Geraint Davies
  • Janet Davies
  • Jocelyn Davies
  • Richard Edwards
  • Sue Essex
  • Val Feld
  • Michael German
  • Brian Gibbons
  • William Graham
  • John Griffiths
  • Christine Gwyther
  • Alison Halford
  • Brian Hancock
  • Jane Hutt
  • Pauline Jarman
  • Ann Jones
  • Carwyn Jones
  • Elin Jones
  • Helen Mary Jones
  • Peter Law
  • David Lloyd
  • John Marek
  • David Melding
  • Tom Middlehurst
  • Rhodri Morgan
  • Lynne Neagle
  • Jenny Randerson
  • Peter Rogers
  • Janet Ryder
  • Gwenda Thomas
  • Rhodri Glyn Thomas
  • Kirsty Williams
  • Phil Williams

Cymunedau’n Gyntaf

Communities First

Dafydd Elis-Thomas The Presiding Officer spoken in English p. 40

Dafydd Elis-Thomas Y Llywydd siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 40

I have selected amendments 1 and 2 in the name of Janet Ryder, amendment 3 in the name of David Davies and amendment 4 in the name of Peter Black.

Yr wyf wedi dewis gwelliannau 1 a 2 yn enw Janet Ryder, gwelliant 3 yn enw David Davies a gwelliant 4 yn enw Peter Black.

Peter Law The Secretary for Local Government and Housing spoken in English p. 40

Peter Law Yr Ysgrifennydd Llywodraeth Leol a Thai siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 40

I propose that

Cynigiaf fod

Peter Law The Secretary for Local Government and Housing (continued) spoken in English p. 41

Peter Law Yr Ysgrifennydd Llywodraeth Leol a Thai (parhad) siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 41

I will talk about the amendments later.

Siaradaf am y gwelliannau yn ddiweddarach.

I start by reminding you of key points to be borne in mind in this important debate this afternoon. First, the Assembly is committed to developing better communities where people want to live, work and play and have access to economic opportunities in a pleasant, safe environment. We have adopted tackling social disadvantage as a major theme. Secondly, many Welsh communities have experienced social and economic decline over many years, leaving them deprived in comparison to the rest of Wales. The problems faced by such communities are complex and deep-rooted. Thirdly, Wales has become divided between developing, affluent areas and areas where unemployment, poor health and housing, high crime and drug-related problems are a key feature of everyday life. If this Assembly is to make the difference that we all believe it must, that must change.

Dechreuaf drwy’ch atgoffa am bwyntiau allweddol i’w cofio yn y ddadl bwysig honno y prynhawn yma. Yn gyntaf, mae’r Cynulliad wedi ymrwymo i ddatblygu cymunedau gwell lle bydd pobl eisiau byw, gweithio a chwarae a chael mynediad at gyfleoedd economaidd mewn amgylchedd braf, diogel. Mae mynd i’r afael ag anfantais gymdeithasol yn brif thema a fabwysiadwyd gennym. Yn ail, mae llawer o gymunedau yng Nghymru wedi profi dirywiad cymdeithasol ac economaidd dros nifer o flynyddoedd, gan eu gadael yn ddifreintiedig o’u cymharu â gweddill Cymru. Mae’r problemau a wynebir gan gymunedau o’r fath yn gymhleth ac wedi gwreiddio’n ddwfn. Yn drydydd, mae Cymru erbyn hyn wedi’i rhannu rhwng ardaloedd datblygol, cyfoethog ac ardaloedd lle mae diweithdra, iechyd a thai gwael, ffigurau troseddu uchel a phroblemau cyffuriau’n nodwedd allweddol o fywyd bob dydd. Os yw’r Cynulliad hwn i wneud y gwahaniaeth yr ydym i gyd yn credu y dylai, rhaid i hynny newid.

In January, we set out our long-term vision for Wales in our draft strategic plan, ‘Betterwales.com’. This vision extends to combating poverty and social disadvantage, spreading economic prosperity and removing inequalities. We must bridge the gap between our most deprived communities and the rest. We must find a way to help regenerate communities so that they become strong, cohesive, confident and self-sustaining.

Ym mis Ionawr, amlinellasom ein gweledigaeth dymor hir i Gymru yn ein cynllun strategol drafft, ‘Gwellcymru.com’. Mae’r weledigaeth hon yn ymestyn i ddileu tlodi ac anfantais gymdeithasol, lledaenu ffyniant economaidd a dileu anghydraddoldeb. Rhaid inni bontio’r gagendor rhwng ein cymunedau mwyaf difreintiedig a’r gweddill. Rhaid inni ddod o hyd i ffordd i helpu adfywio cymunedau er mwyn iddynt dyfu’n gryf, yn gydlynol, yn hyderus ac yn hunan-gynhaliol.

In March, we launched a widespread consultation exercise on our proposals for Communities First. It is our vision for the future and for how communities can be regenerated. It is an entirely Welsh approach and is designed to meet the needs of Wales’s most deprived communities. Communities First offers a non-prescriptive approach, based on the principle that regeneration and community renewal should meet the needs and priorities determined by the communities themselves. It is not a new initiative. It is about recognising long-term commitment by local authorities, the Assembly and other key agencies at a local level to the delivery of action. It will help communities to take the lead and build capacity for sustainability.

Ym mis Mawrth, lansiasom arferiad ymgynghori eang ar ein cynigion ar gyfer Cymunedau’n Gyntaf. Dyma’n gweledigaeth ar gyfer y dyfodol ac ar gyfer adfywio cymunedau. Mae’n ddull hollol Gymreig o fynd ati ac mae wedi’i gynllunio i ateb anghenion cymunedau mwyaf difreintiedig Cymru. Mae Cymunedau’n Gyntaf yn cynnig ffordd anghyfarwyddol o fynd ati, yn seiliedig ar yr egwyddor y dylai adfywiad ac adnewyddu cymunedol gwrdd â’r anghenion a’r blaenoriaethau a bennir gan y cymunedau eu hunain. Nid yw’n fenter newydd. Mae a wnelo â chydnabod ymrwymiad tymor hir gan awdurdodau lleol, y Cynulliad ac asiantaethau allweddol eraill ar lefel leol i sicrhau gweithredu. Bydd yn helpu cymunedau i gymryd yr awenau ac adeiladu gallu i fod yn gynaliadwy.

Communities First will not succeed unless genuine long-lasting multi-agency partnerships are formed in which community members play a key role. Communities First will address some of the shortcomings of past regeneration programmes: a lack of cohesion between different initiatives; difficulties for communities in taking the lead; too many different funding streams; short-term pump priming; questionable commitment from key players and insufficient community involvement. We all know to our cost that quick fixes have not worked in the past.

Ni fydd Cymunedau’n Gyntaf yn llwyddo oni ffurfir partneriaethau hirhoedlog gwirioneddol rhwng asiantaethau, gyda rôl allweddol i aelodau’r gymuned. Bydd Cymunedau’n Gyntaf yn rhoi sylw i rai o ddiffygion rhaglenni adfywio’r gorffennol: diffyg cydlyniad rhwng gwahanol fentrau; cymunedau’n cael anawsterau i gymryd yr awenau; gormod o wahanol ffrydiau ariannu; hwb cychwynnol tymor byr; ymrwymiad simsan gan chwaraewyr allweddol a dim digon o gyfranogiad cymunedol. Gwyddom i gyd o brofiad nad yw’r ateb cyflym wedi gweithio yn y gorffennol.

The ‘Communities First’ consultation paper states that ‘large sums of money are spent’ by the Assembly but that there is

Dywed y papur ymgynghorol ‘Cymunedau’n Gyntaf’ fod ‘symiau mawr o arian yn cael eu gwario’ gan y Cynulliad ond

‘too often little discernible improvement in conditions which justified the expenditure’.

‘yn aml iawn nid oes llawer o welliannau amlwg mewn amodau sy’n cyfiawnhau’r gwariant’.

We are in the process of reviewing over 60 Assembly-led funding programmes which impact on disadvantage to identify gaps and overlaps in them. We aim to streamline programmes to make them more accessible and flexible and to deliver services more effectively. We are committed to managing existing resources more effectively, setting targets and measuring change. The aim is to complete the first stage of the review by the autumn.

Yr ydym wrthi’n adolygu dros 60 o raglenni ariannu sydd dan arweiniad y Cynulliad ac sydd yn effeithio ar sefyllfa’r difreintiedig er mwyn canfod bylchau a mannau lle ceir gorgyffwrdd rhyngddynt. Anelwn at symleiddio rhaglenni i’w gwneud yn fwy hygyrch a hyblyg ac i ddarparu gwasanaethau’n fwy effeithiol. Yr ydym wedi ymrwymo i reoli’r adnoddau sydd yn bodoli eisoes yn fwy effeithiol, gosod targedau a mesur newid. Y nod yw cwblhau cam cyntaf yr adolygiad erbyn yr hydref.

I welcome Janet Ryder’s amendment 1, which recognises that all communities would benefit from realigned, co-ordinated service delivery and funding. Like Janet, I support the recognition that local communities will be empowered to identify their own problems and devise their own unique solutions. That is in keeping with the aims of Communities First.

Croesawaf welliant 1 Janet Ryder, sydd yn cydnabod y byddai pob cymuned yn elwa o adlinio a chyd-drefnu cyflwyniad a chyllid gwasanaethau. Fel Janet, cefnogaf y gydnabyddiaeth y galluogir cymunedau lleol i adnabod eu problemau eu hunain a dyfeisio’u hatebion unigryw eu hunain. Mae hynny’n unol ag amcanion Cymunedau’n Gyntaf.

Much good work has been done in Wales and across the UK. Communities First must build on existing success and not dismantle it. However, that must be done in a more integrated way, which can offer better value for money and more effective action. Communities First will be targeted at the most deprived communities in Wales. One of the most difficult tasks is to identify those communities because we do not have a shortage of contenders.

Gwnaethpwyd llawer o waith da yng Nghymru ac ar draws y DU. Rhaid i Cymunedau’n Gyntaf adeiladu ar y llwyddiant presennol a pheidio â’i ddatgymalu. Fodd bynnag, rhaid gwneud hynny mewn modd mwy integredig, a all gynnig gwell gwerth am arian a gweithredu mwy effeithiol. Targedir Cymunedau’n Gyntaf at y cymunedau mwyaf difreintiedig yng Nghymru. Un o’r tasgau anoddaf yw adnabod y cymunedau hynny, oherwydd nid oes gennym brinder ymgeiswyr.

Indicators of poverty are difficult to compile. The new index of deprivation for Wales, which will be published later this month, provides an important starting point but we will need to add local knowledge to that. Statistical indicators will never provide the full picture and can mask pockets of deprivation. The comprehensive consultation and participative policy exercise on Communities First, now underway reinforces that message. I will bring you up to date with developments on that front.

Mae’n anodd rhestru mynegyddion tlodi. Mae’r mynegai amddifadedd newydd i Gymru, a gyhoeddir yn ddiweddarach y mis hwn, yn darparu man cychwyn pwysig, ond bydd angen ychwanegu gwybodaeth leol at hynny. Ni wnaiff mynegyddion ystadegol fyth roi’r darlun llawn a gallant guddio pocedi o amddifadedd. Mae’r ymarferiad polisi cyfranogol a’r ymgynghori cynhwysfawr ar Cymunedau’n Gyntaf, sydd ar y gweill ar hyn o bryd, yn atgyfnerthu’r neges honno. Rhoddaf wybodaeth ichi am y datblygiadau diweddaraf ar y testun hwnnw.

Over 2,000 copies of the initial consultation document were issued. Comments were requested by 31 May. Almost 150 responses have already been received. I had the pleasure of speaking at two developmental seminars, which were held in Ewloe in North Wales and in Cardiff. I was delighted that so many people attended, including some Assembly Members. I was particularly pleased that we recently held a debate on the voluntary sector partnership because many voluntary sector workers attended the two seminars. It shows that Wales values the commitment of the voluntary sector, as Jane Hutt said. Over 400 people from agencies, voluntary agencies, committees and communities attended those seminars. ‘Betterwales.com’ states that there is ample evidence of the energy and determination of local people to recover the sense of respect and community which once prevailed.

Cyhoeddwyd dros 2,000 o gopïau o’r ddogfen ymgynghori wreiddiol. Gofynnwyd am sylwadau erbyn 31 Mai. Daeth bron i 150 o ymatebion i law yn barod. Cefais y pleser o siarad mewn dau seminar datblygu, un yn Ewlo yn y gogledd a’r llall yng Nghaerdydd. Yr oeddwn wrth fy modd o weld cymaint o bobl yn bresennol, gan gynnwys rhai Aelodau Cynulliad. Yr oeddwn yn arbennig o falch ein bod wedi cynnal dadl ar bartneriaeth y sector gwirfoddol yn ddiweddar oherwydd daeth llawer o weithwyr y sector gwirfoddol i’r ddau seminar. Mae’n dangos fod Cymru’n gwerthfawrogi ymroddiad y sector gwirfoddol, fel y dywedodd Jane Hutt. Daeth dros 400 o bobl o asiantaethau, cyrff gwirfoddol, pwyllgorau a chymunedau ynghyd i’r seminarau hynny. Noda ‘Gwellcymru.com’ fod digon o dystiolaeth o egni a phenderfyniad pobl leol i adfer yr ymdeimlad o barch a chymuned a arferai fodoli.

I have already see this in action throughout Wales. Area-based discussion groups in all 22 local authority areas are well under way. They started in Powys on 31 May, and 17 have taken place to date. All will be completed by 20 July.

Yr wyf eisoes wedi gweld hyn ar waith ledled Cymru. Mae grwpiau trafod ar y gweill ym mhob un o’r 22 ardal awdurdod lleol. Cychwynasant ym Mhowys ar 31 Mai, a chynhaliwyd 17 hyd yn hyn. Bydd pob un wedi’i gynnal erbyn 20 Gorffennaf.

Community focus groups have also been set up to enable people at a local level to be involved and to contribute their ideas and concerns. These sessions are providing excellent feedback. Local authority members and staff, voluntary sector organisations and community development groups have contributed to a lively and meaningful debate. Good policy depends on tapping into the widest base of ideas, knowledge and expertise. We need to hear views and comments from people who live and work in the communities and from key players who are involved in communities. The Assembly does not know all the answers, so we must actively listen and respect the views and experience of others. We have not got a monopoly on wisdom.

Sefydlwyd grwpiau ffocws cymunedol hefyd i alluogi pobl ar lefel leol i gael rhan ac i gyfrannu’u syniadau a’u diddordebau. Mae’r sesiynau hyn yn darparu adborth ardderchog. Mae aelodau a staff awdurdodau lleol, sefydliadau’r sector gwirfoddol a grwpiau datblygu cymunedol wedi cyfrannu at ddadl fywiog ac ystyrlon. Mae polisi da’n dibynnu ar gysylltu â’r sylfaen ehangaf o syniadau, gwybodaeth ac arbenigedd. Mae arnom angen clywed sylwadau a barn gan bobl sydd yn byw ac yn gweithio yn y cymunedau a chan chwaraewyr allweddol sydd yn ymwneud â chymunedau. Nid yw’r Cynulliad yn gwybod yr atebion i gyd, felly rhaid inni fynd ati i wrando a pharchu barn a phrofiad pobl eraill. Nid oes gennym fonopoli ar ddoethineb.

All of this is the initial consultation phase. What needs to be done next is to analyse carefully the responses, comments and feedback. I will issue another consultation paper in August, which will set out the more detailed policy and funding framework to follow this up. I will set out my proposals for implementation.

Y cam ymgynghori cychwynnol yw hyn i gyd. Beth sydd angen ei wneud nesaf yw dadansoddi’n ofalus yr ymatebion, y sylwadau a’r adborth. Cyhoeddaf bapur ymgynghori arall ym mis Awst, a fydd yn amlinellu’r fframwaith polisi ac ariannu mwy manwl yn sgîl hyn. Byddaf yn amlinellu fy nghynigion ar gyfer gweithredu.

The target for identifying communities is the turn of the year. I have set the date for starting the policy development of Communities First as 1 April 2001. The consultation must be fully inclusive. As I said, those most affected by social disadvantage are being fully engaged in this consultation process in order to establish what is needed to counteract their problems. The implementation date of 1 April 2001 is completely justified, so I cannot support David Davies’s amendment, which is negative as usual. It insults the National Assembly for Wales, bearing in mind the approach that this Assembly has taken, in the last year, in dealing with social exclusion. I regret that you had to put it down in the way that you did.

Y targed yw canfod y cymunedau erbyn troad y flwyddyn. 1 Ebrill 2000 yw’r dyddiad a osodais ar gyfer dechrau datblygu polisïau Cymunedau’n Gyntaf. Rhaid i’r ymgynghori fod yn gwbl gynhwysol. Fel y dywedais, rhoddir rhan lawn i’r rheini yr effeithir arnynt fwyaf gan anfantais gymdeithasol yn y broses ymgynghori hon er mwyn sefydlu beth sydd ei angen i wrthweithio’u problemau. Mae cyfiawnhad llawn i’r dyddiad dechrau 1 Ebrill 2001, felly ni allaf gefnogi gwelliant David Davies, sydd yn negyddol fel arfer. Mae’n sarhau Cynulliad Cenedlaethol Cymru, o gofio’r modd y gweithredodd y Cynulliad hwn, dros y flwyddyn ddiwethaf, i ddelio ag allgáu cymdeithasol. Gresynaf ichi orfod ei roi i lawr yn y ffordd y gwnaethoch.

Communities First is non-prescriptive. It is vital that the policy is developed in partnership with all the key players. Most of Peter Black’s points have already been raised in the consultation responses. However, it is important to remember—

Nid yw Cymunedau’n Gyntaf yn broses gyfarwyddol. Mae’n holl bwysig datblygu’r polisi mewn partneriaeth â’r holl chwaraewyr allweddol. Codwyd mwyafrif pwyntiau Peter Black eisoes yn yr ymatebion i’r ymgynghori. Fodd bynnag, mae’n bwysig cofio—

Pauline Jarman spoken in English p. 45

Pauline Jarman siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 45

I refer you to your last comment. I appreciate the fact that this is about inclusion for everyone. The document states:

Fe’ch cyfeiriaf at eich sylw diwethaf. Gwerthfawrogaf y ffaith fod a wnelo hyn â chynnwys pawb. Dywed y ddogfen:

‘Communities First sets out a real programme.’

‘Mae Cymunedau’n Gyntaf yn amlinellu rhaglen wirioneddol.’

However, later in the document it says

Fodd bynnag, yn ddiweddarach yn y ddogfen dywedir

‘We emphasise that this consultation document is about presenting a concept.’

‘Pwysleisiwn mai cyflwyno cysyniad…y mae’r ddogfen ymgynghori hon.’

In my view those are two entirely different views. Will you confirm that this is a concept and that the programme and policy will be set by participants in consultation with the Assembly?

Yn fy marn i mae’r rheini’n ddau osodiad cwbl wahanol. A wnewch chi gadarnhau mai cysyniad yw hyn ac y sefydlir y rhaglen a’r polisi gan gyfranogwyr mewn ymgynghoriad â’r Cynulliad?

Peter Law spoken in English p. 46

Peter Law siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 46

That is correct. The programme reference was a wide reference to targeting deprived communities, but the whole thing is a concept document at this stage. The full programme will be published after the consultation. Thank you for clarifying that.

Mae hynny’n gywir. Yr oedd y cyfeiriad at raglen yn gyfeiriad eang at dargedu cymunedau difreintiedig, ond dogfen gysyniad yw’r cyfanrwydd ar hyn o bryd. Caiff y rhaglen lawn ei chyhoeddi ar ôl yr ymgynghori. Diolch am egluro hynny.

With reference to Peter Black’s amendment 4, it is important to remember that we are not proposing health action zones in Wales. Wales is subject to the type of action that one would expect to find in a health action zone in England. We do not have housing improvement areas in Wales. We are setting off on a long road and it will take hard and consistent effort to make a lasting impact. It will be difficult at times but the rewards will be well worth the effort. The motion welcomes the response to the consultation. It encourages all the players to support Communities First, notes the work being done on rationalisation, and invites the Subject Committees to support Communities First. I commend it to you.

Gan gyfeirio at welliant 4 Peter Black, mae’n bwysig cofio nad ydym yn cynnig parthau gweithredu iechyd yng Nghymru. Mae Cymru yn destun y math o weithredu y disgwylid ei gael mewn parth gweithredu iechyd yn Lloegr. Nid oes gennym ardaloedd gwella tai yng Nghymru. Yr ydym yn cychwyn allan ar ffordd hir ac fe gymer ymdrech galed a chyson i wneud argraff barhaol. Bydd yn anodd ar brydiau ond bydd y gwobrau’n werth yr ymdrech heb os. Mae’r cynnig yn croesawu’r ymateb i’r ymgynghori. Mae’n annog pawb i gefnogi Cymunedau’n Gyntaf, yn nodi’r gwaith sydd yn cael ei wneud ar resymoli, ac yn gwahodd y Pwyllgorau Pwnc i gefnogi Cymunedau’n Gyntaf. Fe’i cymeradwyaf i chi.

Janet Ryder spoken in English p. 46

Janet Ryder siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 46

I propose amendment 1. In the second clause, before ‘encourages’ add :

Cynigiaf welliant 1. Yn yr ail gymal, cyn ‘yn annog’, ychwaneger:

Janet Ryder (continued) spoken in English p. 46

Janet Ryder (parhad) siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 46

I also propose amendment 2. Add as a new fourth clause:

Cynigiaf hefyd welliant 2. Ychwaneger y canlynol fel pedwerydd cymal newydd

Janet Ryder (continued) spoken in English p. 46

Janet Ryder (parhad) siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 46

As Peter said, today’s debate is important. However, we are asked to debate again today another piece of apple pie from this Labour Government. Unfortunately, it is an apple pie that has little or no filling. There is very little that anyone can object to in Communities First because it says so little. The scheme signals a move away from a top-down approach in community development to developing an integrated local process from the bottom up. It creates a framework and process for change without prescribing solutions that will allow local flexibility and responsiveness in deciding the means and delivering the outcomes to achieve the regeneration that is needed.

Fel y dywedodd Peter, mae dadl heddiw’n bwysig. Fodd bynnag, gofynnir inni drafod eto heddiw damaid arall o deisen afalau gan y Llywodraeth Lafur hon. Yn anffodus, teisen afalau heb fawr ddim yn ei chanol ydyw. Nid oes fawr ddim y gall neb ei wrthwynebu yn Cymunedau’n Gyntaf oherwydd mae’n dweud cyn lleied. Mae’r cynllun yn arwyddo symudiad i ffwrdd oddi wrth ddull o weithio o’r brig i lawr ym maes datblygu cymunedol tuag at ddatblygu proses leol integredig o’r gwaelod i fyny. Mae’n creu fframwaith a phroses ar gyfer newid heb ragnodi atebion a fydd yn caniatáu hyblygrwydd ac ymatebolrwydd lleol wrth benderfynu ar y modd a sicrhau’r canlyniadau i gyflawni’r adfywiad angenrheidiol.

A multi-agency approach to solutions and problems is needed and recognition that sustainable communities will produce benefits across the board in all areas. A true cross-cutting approach will produce benefits in health, education, crime prevention, economic regeneration and many more areas. The recognition of the need for long-term funding to move away from too many separate grants, each tied to different criteria and application routes, is to be welcomed. However, perhaps the first question we should ask is why we are discussing this in Plenary today. When this consultation document was discussed in Committee, we were informed that:

Mae angen dull aml-asiantaeth o edrych ar atebion a phroblemau, a chydnabod y bydd cymunedau cynaliadwy’n achosi manteision drwyddi draw ym mhob maes. Bydd dull trawsbynciol gwirioneddol yn rhoi manteision ym meysydd iechyd, addysg, atal troseddau, adfywiad economaidd a sawl maes arall. Croesewir y gydnabyddiaeth i’r angen am ariannu tymor hir i symud i ffwrdd oddi wrth ormod o grantiau ar-wahân, bob un ynghlwm wrth wahanol feini prawf a ffyrdd o wneud cais. Fodd bynnag, efallai mai’r cwestiwn cyntaf y dylem ei ofyn yw pam yr ydym yn trafod hyn yn y Cyfarfod Llawn heddiw. Pan drafodwyd y ddogfen ymgynghorol hon yn y Pwyllgor, dywedwyd wrthym:

‘Following consultation, the Assembly will consider more detailed arrangements for the programme including the selection of the target community areas…Firm proposals for the programme should be developed by the early autumn, with a view to launch by the end of the year.’

‘Ar ôl ymgynghori, bydd y Cynulliad yn ystyried trefniadau mwy manwl ar gyfer y rhaglen gan gynnwys dewis yr ardaloedd cymunedol a dargedir...Dylai cynigion pendant ar gyfer y rhaglen fod wedi’u datblygu erbyn dechrau’r hydref, gyda golwg ar lansio erbyn diwedd y flwyddyn.’

In light of that, why are we today discussing the consultation document, which we were told received a very enthusiastic response. Why are we still looking ahead to the next stage? Where is that next stage? Why are we not discussing the response to the consultation and the next stage? The timetable set out in the consultation document itself states that there will be discussion in Assembly Regional Committees in June and July and that a second consultation document setting out the detailed proposals for implementation will be issued in August—as Peter said—with responses by 30 September. The summer period is one of the worst times to consult. Many councils are in recess and many community groups also take a break from meeting over the summer. It also begs the question, where is the second consultation document and what will be in it?

Yng ngoleuni hynny, pam yr ydym heddiw’n trafod y ddogfen ymgynghorol, y dywedwyd wrthym iddi gael ymateb brwd iawn? Pam yr ydym yn dal i edrych ymlaen at y cam nesaf? Ble mae’r cam nesaf hwnnw? Pam nad ydym ni’n trafod yr ymateb i’r ymgynghoriad a’r cam nesaf? Mae’r amserlen a amlinellwyd yn y ddogfen ymgynghorol ei hun yn datgan y bydd trafodaeth ym Mhwyllgorau Rhanbarth y Cynulliad ym misoedd Mehefin a Gorffennaf ac y cyhoeddir ail ddogfen ymgynghorol yn amlinellu’r cynigion manwl ar gyfer gweithredu ym mis Awst—fel y dywedodd Peter—gydag ymatebion erbyn 30 Medi. Cyfnod yr haf yw un o’r adegau gwaethaf i ymgynghori. Mae llawer o gynghorau ar doriad a bydd llawer o grwpiau cymuned hefyd yn cymryd egwyl o’u cyfarfodydd dros yr haf. Rhaid gofyn y cwestiwn hefyd, ble mae’r ail ddogfen ymgynghorol a beth fydd ynddi?

Having said that, there are a number of points that are worth noting in this initiative. It offers a potentially radical opportunity for local regeneration. Plaid Cymru—The Party of Wales believes that for any regeneration project to be effective and sustainable, it must be developed from the roots up. This initiative signals a move away from a top-down approach and the development of a more inclusive and integrated local process. We feel that all communities would benefit from this approach. However, we recognise that priority should be given to those communities of greatest deprivation. That is the basis for our amendment 1. We must recognise that all communities would benefit from realigned, co-ordinated service delivery and funding.

Wedi dweud hynny, mae nifer o bwyntiau gwerth eu nodi yn y fenter hon. Mae’n cynnig cyfle a allai fod yn radical o ran adfywio lleol. Cred Plaid Cymru—The Party of Wales fod yn rhaid i unrhyw brosiect adfywio, os am fod yn effeithiol ac yn gynaliadwy, gael ei ddatblygu o’r gwreiddiau i fyny. Mae’r fenter hon yn arwyddo symudiad i ffwrdd oddi wrth ddull o’r brig i lawr tuag at ddatblygu proses leol fwy cynhwysol ac integredig. Teimlwn y byddai pob cymuned yn elwa o’r ffordd hon o fynd ati. Fodd bynnag, cydnabyddwn y dylid rhoi blaenoriaeth i’r cymunedau hynny lle ceir yr amddifadedd mwyaf. Dyna sail ein gwelliant 1. Rhaid inni gydnabod y byddai pob cymuned yn elwa ar adlinio a chydlynu’r dull o ddarparu ac ariannu gwasanaethau.

Communities First puts the emphasis on the creation of local partnerships for the development of local solutions. However, it fails to show how these local partnerships will be taken forward. As the response from the Welsh Local Government Association indicates, the Labour Government has become very proficient at writing partnership plans and cross-cutting local strategies, but achieving sustainable long-term action in response has proved more difficult. Communities First puts forward a more integrated approach to regeneration. It refers to reviewing and rationalising the number of different initiatives that have been issued. The targeted specific funds that have been used as a means of delivering national policy at a local level will, we hope, be reviewed and rationalised. For many years, we have seen specific targeted funds used to deliver policies at a local level. The effect has been to tie the hands of local government and prevent it from being government at a local level. It has created instead a passporting body for Government funds. Local authorities can no longer carry out locally identified solutions because they have to make those solutions fit into the relevant pockets of money. That is the basis of our amendment 2. Plaid Cymru—The Party of Wales welcomes the move away from the specific use of grants and supports the recognition that local communities will be empowered to identify their own problems and devise their own unique solutions.

Mae Cymunedau’n Gyntaf yn gosod y pwyslais ar greu partneriaethau lleol i ddatblygu atebion lleol. Fodd bynnag, nid yw’n dangos sut yr eir â’r partneriaethau lleol hyn yn eu blaen. Fel yr awgryma’r ymateb gan Gymdeithas Llywodraeth Leol Cymru, mae’r Llywodraeth Lafur yn abl iawn erbyn hyn i ysgrifennu cynlluniau partneriaeth a strategaethau lleol trawsbynciol, ond profodd yn fwy anodd sicrhau gweithredu cynaliadwy dros y tymor hir mewn ymateb i hynny. Mae Cymunedau’n Gyntaf yn cynnig dull mwy integredig o fynd ati i adfywio cymunedau. Cyfeiria at adolygu a rhesymoli’r nifer o wahanol fentrau a gyhoeddwyd. Gobeithiwn yr adolygir ac y rhesymolir yr arian targed penodol a ddefnyddiwyd fel modd i gyflawni polisi cenedlaethol ar lefel leol. Ers blynyddoedd lawer, gwelsom ddefnyddio arian targed penodol i gyflawni polisïau ar lefel leol. Yr effaith fu clymu dwylo llywodraeth leol a’i rhwystro rhag bod yn llywodraeth ar lefel leol. Crëwyd yn lle hynny gorff pasbort ar gyfer cyllid y Llywodraeth. Ni all awdurdodau lleol mwyach weithredu atebion a welir yn lleol oherwydd mae’n rhaid iddynt wneud i’r atebion hynny ffitio i mewn i’r pocedi arian perthnasol. Dyna sail ein gwelliant 2. Mae Plaid Cymru—The Party of Wales yn croesawu’r symudiad i ffwrdd oddi wrth bennu defnydd grantiau ac yn cefnogi’r gydnabyddiaeth y galluogir cymunedau lleol i nodi eu problemau eu hunain a dyfeisio’u hatebion unigryw eu hunain.

Plaid Cymru would welcome this as a move towards delivery of policy through agreed policies with local government tied to specific local targets. The move away from a plethora of different specific grants to larger pockets of money is welcome, as is a recognition that funding needs to be long term. However, that must also be carried over into the Assembly’s budget with co-ordination between Committees and a commitment by them to this strategy. The Labour Government seems to have failed to co-ordinate itself. How does Communities First relate to or build on existing initiatives such as People in Communities or Sustainable Communities and how does it affect the recently published review of the Work-based Learning for Adults and Tackling Substance Misuse in Wales initiatives? The Assembly’s strategy on health and wellbeing was issued for consultation more or less at the same time as Communities First. Improving health will be a major feature in the success of Communities First. I am pleased that the Liberal Democrats have decided to claim Plaid Cymru’s policy of developing health action zones as their own. It perhaps shows their inability to develop their own policies, but it is good that Plaid’s policies are being mainstreamed by opposition parties.

Byddai Plaid Cymru yn croesawu hyn fel symudiad tuag at weithredu polisi drwy bolisïau cytunedig gyda llywodraeth leol ynghlwm wrth dargedau lleol penodol. Croesewir y symudiad i ffwrdd oddi wrth gymysgedd o wahanol grantiau penodol tuag at bocedi mwy o arian, yn ogystal â’r gydnabyddiaeth fod angen ariannu am dymor hir. Fodd bynnag, rhaid cario hynny drosodd hefyd i gyllideb y Cynulliad gyda chydlyniant rhwng Pwyllgorau ac ymrwymiad ganddynt i’r strategaeth hon. Mae’n ymddangos bod y Llywodraeth Lafur wedi methu cydlynu ei hun. Sut mae Cymunedau’n Gyntaf yn berthnasol i fentrau sydd yn bodoli eisoes fel Pobl Mewn Cymunedau neu Gymunedau Cynaliadwy, neu’n adeiladu arnynt, a sut y mae’n effeithio ar yr adolygiad a gyhoeddwyd yn ddiweddar o’r mentrau Dysgu Seiliedig ar Waith i Oedolion a Mynd i’r Afael â Chamddefnyddio Sylweddau yng Nghymru? Cyhoeddwyd strategaeth y Cynulliad ar iechyd a lles ar gyfer ymgynghori fwy neu lai ar yr un pryd â Cymunedau’n Gyntaf. Yr wyf yn falch fod y Democratiaid Rhyddfrydol wedi penderfynu hawlio polisi Plaid Cymru o ddatblygu parthau gweithredu iechyd fel eu polisi eu hunain. Efallai fod hynny’n dangos eu hanallu i ddatblygu’u polisïau eu hunain, ond mae’n dda fod polisïau’r Blaid yn cael eu prif-ffrydio gan y gwrthbleidiau.

Kirsty Williams a gododd—

Kirsty Williams rose—

Janet Ryder spoken in English p. 49

Janet Ryder siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 49

If the Labour Government—[Interruption.]

Os yw’r Llywodraeth Lafur—[Torri ar draws.]

Dafydd Elis-Thomas The Presiding Officer spoken in English p. 49

Dafydd Elis-Thomas Y Llywydd siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 49

Order. Janet Ryder is not giving way. That is the prerogative of all Members and I wish more would exercise it.

Trefn. Nid yw Janet Ryder yn ildio. Dyna hawl pob Aelod a hoffwn pe bai mwy yn ei arfer.

Janet Ryder spoken in English p. 50

Janet Ryder siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 50

If the Labour Government is intent on rationalising strategies and grants and producing joined-up thinking and policies, why did it not co-ordinate these two consultations, which are so closely connected and impact on each other?

Os yw’r Llywodraeth Lafur yn benderfynol o resymoli strategaethau a grantiau a chynhyrchu syniadau a pholisïau cydlynol, pam na wnaeth gydlynu’r ddau ymgynghoriad hyn, sydd mor agos eu cysylltiad a’u heffaith ar ei gilydd?

The emphasis on the local community identifying its own needs and devising a course of action to meet those needs will not just empower local communities to take control of their own development, but also empower local government to deliver government on a local level and serve the needs of its community. Those needs have been identified by the local community itself. That raises another point. We should recognise the role of local government as community leaders that is the basis of the modernising agenda: local councillors are local people, elected locally to represent their communities. They should therefore be well placed to know their communities’ needs and be in a position to unite the groups that work in them. The value of this initiative is in its emphasis on local communities identifying their own solutions and on giving them the financial freedom to meet those needs.

Bydd y pwyslais ar adael i’r gymuned leol adnabod ei hanghenion ei hun a dyfeisio modd o weithredu i ateb yr anghenion hynny nid yn unig yn grymuso cymunedau lleol i gymryd rheolaeth dros eu datblygiad eu hunain, ond hefyd yn grymuso llywodraeth leol i ddarparu llywodraeth ar lefel leol a gwasanaethu anghenion ei chymuned. Mae’r anghenion hynny wedi’u hadnabod gan y gymuned leol ei hun. Mae hynny’n codi pwynt arall. Dylem gydnabod rôl llywodraeth leol fel arweinwyr cymunedol, sydd yn sail i’w hagenda dros foderneiddio: pobl leol yw cynghorwyr lleol, a etholir yn lleol i gynrychioli’u cymunedau. Dylent felly fod mewn sefyllfa dda i wybod beth yw anghenion eu cymunedau a bod mewn safle i uno’r grwpiau sydd yn gweithio ynddynt. Gwerth y fenter hon yw ei phwyslais ar gael cymunedau lleol i ganfod eu hatebion eu hunain ac ar roi’r rhyddid ariannol iddynt ateb yr anghenion hynny.

Although Plaid Cymru supports Peter Black’s amendment 4, we feel that it is prescriptive. I am glad that it offers nothing stronger than ‘to note’. On David Davies’s amendment 3, we share his dislike of time being wasted and his desire for quick action on this.

Er bod Plaid Cymru yn cefnogi gwelliant 4 Peter Black, teimlwn ei fod yn gyfarwyddol. Yr wyf yn falch nad yw’n cynnig ddim cryfach na ‘nodi’. Ar welliant 3 David Davies, rhannwn ei anhoffter o wastraffu amser a’i awydd am weithredu ar fyrder ar hyn.

David Davies spoken in English p. 50

David Davies siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 50

I propose amendment 3. Add at the end of the motion:

Cynigiaf welliant 3. Ychwaneger ar ddiwedd y cynnig

David Davies (continued) spoken in English p. 51

David Davies (parhad) siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 51

I thank Janet for that surprising display of support from Plaid Cymru; perhaps coalition is not as far off as people think. [Laughter.] On the other hand, if anyone is watching this in Monmouth, perhaps it is.

Diolchaf i Janet am yr arwydd annisgwyl o gefnogaeth gan Blaid Cymru; efallai nad yw clymblaid mor bell i ffwrdd ag y tybia pobl. [Chwerthin.] Ar y llaw arall, os oes unrhyw un yn gwylio hyn ym Mynwy, efallai ei fod.

The Conservative Party is happy to continue in this positive vein of welcoming the aspirations outlined in Communities First. We have always endorsed the need, which is identified in the document, to help people to help themselves rather than allow them to become dependent on the state. A wonderful vision is presented in the document of a Wales without poverty, unemployment, drug abuse, housing problems nor health inequalities. Communities First states that it seeks to ensure that a lifestyle appropriate to the twenty-first century is enjoyed by everyone regardless of where they live and what their economic status is.

Mae’r Blaid Geidwadol yn hapus i barhau yn yr ysbryd cadarnhaol hwn o groesawu’r dyheadau a amlinellir yn Cymunedau’n Gyntaf. Yr ydym bob amser wedi ategu’r angen, a nodir yn y ddogfen, i helpu pobl i helpu’u hunain yn hytrach na chaniatáu iddynt fynd yn ddibynnol ar y wladwriaeth. Cyflwynir gweledigaeth hyfryd yn y ddogfen o Gymru heb dlodi, diweithdra, camddefnydd cyffuriau, problemau tai nac anghydraddoldebau iechyd. Mae Cymunedau’n Gyntaf yn nodi ei fod yn ceisio sicrhau y bydd pawb yn mwynhau ffordd o fyw sydd yn briodol i’r unfed ganrif ar hugain, ble bynnag y maent yn byw a beth bynnag yw eu statws economaidd.

I do not expect anyone to disagree with that. As Janet said, it is impossible to disagree with any of it. We all enter into politics to try to overcome these problems. That is the motive that drives us. Peter Law accuses me of negativity. I do not want to be negative nor do I want to throw cold water over this. It would be marvellous to achieve all that is set out in Communities First. I would also like to achieve an end to third world debt, starvation and hunger and abolish original sin. However, it will be more difficult to achieve the document’s aims than is implied in Communities First. As Helen Mary Jones said earlier, how do we turn rhetoric into reality? I will focus on some key issues: poor quality housing and the external environment; a lack of public and civic amenities—

Nid wyf yn disgwyl i neb anghytuno â hynny. Fel y dywedodd Janet, mae’n amhosibl anghytuno ag un gair ohono. Deuwn i gyd i mewn i wleidyddiaeth er mwyn ceisio datrys y problemau hyn. Dyna’r cymhelliad sydd yn ein gyrru. Mae Peter Law yn fy nghyhuddo o fod yn negyddol. Nid oes arnaf eisiau bod yn negyddol na thaflu dŵr oer dros hyn. Byddai’n braf iawn cyflawni’r cyfan a amlinellir yn Cymunedau’n Gyntaf. Hoffwn hefyd sicrhau diwedd ar ddyled y trydydd byd, newyn a thlodi a dileu’r pechod gwreiddiol. Fodd bynnag, bydd yn anos gwireddu amcanion y ddogfen nag a awgrymir yn Cymunedau’n Gyntaf. Fel y dywedodd Helen Mary Jones yn gynharach, sut mae troi rhethreg yn realiti? Canolbwyntiaf ar rai materion allweddol: tai ac amgylchedd allanol o ansawdd gwael; diffyg cyfleusterau dinesig a chyhoeddus—

Andrew Davies spoken in English p. 51

Andrew Davies siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 51

Keep going, David.

Daliwch ati, David.

David Davies spoken in English p. 51

David Davies siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 51

I do not need the Labour Party’s Business Secretary to tell me to keep going.

Nid oes arnaf angen i Drefnydd y Blaid Lafur ddweud wrthyf am ddal ati.

Dafydd Elis-Thomas The Presiding Officer spoken in English p. 51

Dafydd Elis-Thomas Y Llywydd siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 51

Order. David Davies needs no encouragement; he is doing extremely well.

Trefn. Nid oes ar David Davies angen unrhyw anogaeth; mae’n gwneud yn arbennig o dda.

David Davies spoken in English p. 52

David Davies siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 52

Quality of service provision, lack of employment prospects—which relates in particular to young people—drug dependency, poor health problems, poor educational achievements, social deprivation and lack of access to services, including advice and information.

Ansawdd gwasanaethau a ddarperir, diffyg rhagolygon gwaith—sydd yn arbennig o berthnasol i bobl ifanc—dibyniaeth ar gyffuriau, problemau iechyd gwael, cyraeddiadau addysgol gwael, amddifadedd cymdeithasol a diffyg mynediad at wasanaethau, gan gynnwys cyngor a gwybodaeth.

We have already presented solutions to all these problems. As we discussed in Committee earlier today, there is an enormous amount of disused council housing stock. It is vacant because people do not want to move into those areas. Instead of setting up consultation processes, we should ask councils to consider ways of selling those properties to private developers so that people living in social housing could move into them. They could be refurbished so that people in council houses could move into them, freeing up more social housing for those who were in need.

Yr ydym eisoes wedi cyflwyno atebion i’r problemau hyn i gyd. Fel a drafodwyd yn y Pwyllgor yn gynharach heddiw, mae peth wmbredd o stoc dai cyngor sydd heb eu defnyddio. Mae’r tai’n wag am nad oes ar bobl eisiau symud i’r ardaloedd hynny. Yn lle sefydlu prosesau ymgynghori, dylem ofyn i gynghorau ystyried ffyrdd o werthu’r eiddo hynny i ddatblygwyr preifat fel y gallai pobl sydd yn byw mewn tai cymdeithasol symud i mewn iddynt. Gellid eu hadnewyddu fel y gallai pobl mewn tai cyngor symud i mewn iddynt, gan ryddhau mwy o dai cymdeithasol i rai mewn angen.

Peter Law spoken in English p. 52

Peter Law siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 52

Do you accept that the reason that we need to proceed with this exciting policy development is because the Labour Government inherited the legacy of years of Tory mismanagement? The difference with this document is that it shows care for the people of Wales, which is something your party never did.

A dderbyniwch mai’r rheswm y mae angen inni fynd ymlaen â’r datblygiad polisi cyffrous hwn yw oherwydd fod y Llywodraeth Lafur wedi etifeddu gwaddol blynyddoedd o gamreolaeth gan y Torïaid? Y gwahaniaeth gyda’r ddogfen hon yw ei bod yn dangos gofal am bobl Cymru, rhywbeth na wnaeth eich plaid chi erioed.

David Davies spoken in English p. 52

David Davies siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 52

I do not accept that. As you should know, Labour councils are in control of most of the empty and dilapidated council houses. They have been mismanaged by Labour councils for decades.

Nid wyf yn derbyn hynny. Fel y dylech wybod, cynghorau Llafur sydd yn rheoli’r rhan fwyaf o’r tai cyngor gwag sydd wedi mynd â’u pen iddynt. Cawsant eu camreoli gan gynghorau Llafur ers degawdau.

This document refers to the lack of public and civic amenities. We do not need 12 months of consultation to know the solution to that problem. The simple answer is that there is not enough funding. If the councils get enough funding, they can build more public and civic amenities. Your Government, under your leadership, is embarking on a policy of cutting back funding to local councils in Wales. We learnt today that there will be a minimum increase of 10 per cent in council tax before the new formula—

Mae’r ddogfen hon yn cyfeirio at y diffyg mwynderau cyhoeddus a dinesig. Nid oes arnom angen 12 mis o ymgynghori i wybod yr ateb i’r broblem honno. Yr ateb syml yw nad oes digon o gyllid. Os caiff y cynghorau ddigon o gyllid, gallant adeiladu mwy o gyfleusterau cyhoeddus a dinesig. Mae’ch Llywodraeth chi, dan eich arweiniad chi, yn gweithredu polisi o gwtogi ar gyllid i gynghorau lleol yng Nghymru. Dysgasom heddiw y bydd cynnydd o 10 y cant o leiaf yn y dreth gyngor cyn i’r fformwla newydd—

Peter Law a gododd—

Peter Law rose—

David Davies spoken in English p. 53

David Davies siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 53

Will you assure me that there will not be a 10 per cent increase for everyone in Wales?

A wnewch chi roi sicrwydd imi na fydd cynnydd o 10 y cant i bawb yng Nghymru?

Peter Law spoken in English p. 53

Peter Law siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 53

No, but you know that there has been no such announcement. You also know that that increase has been resisted by many of us. The increase is a Treasury policy, which is based on 1997 Conservative philosophy inherited by the Labour Government under the comprehensive spending review. That came from your leader.

Na wnaf, ond gwyddoch na wnaethpwyd unrhyw gyhoeddiad o’r fath. Gwyddoch hefyd fod llawer ohonom wedi gwrthwynebu’r cynnydd hwnnw. Polisi’r Trysorlys yw’r cynnydd, yn seiliedig ar athroniaeth Geidwadol o 1997 a etifeddwyd gan y Llywodraeth Lafur dan yr adolygiad cynhwysfawr o wariant. Gan eich arweinydd chi y daeth hwnnw.

David Davies spoken in English p. 53

David Davies siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 53

The Labour Party adopted the policy, but the Conservatives did not have a policy of increasing council tax year on year or of using council taxes as a way of raising taxation through the back door. I am sure that everyone here agrees that if local authorities do not receive the funding, no matter how it is achieved, they cannot provide more public and civic amenities. It is a funding problem. If you deprive local authorities of that funding, it will remain a problem. No amount of consultation documents will solve it.

Mabwysiadodd y Blaid Lafur y polisi, ond nid oedd gan y Ceidwadwyr bolisi o gynyddu treth gyngor flwyddyn ar ôl blwyddyn nac o ddefnyddio trethi cyngor fel ffordd o gynyddu treth drwy’r drws cefn. Yr wyf yn siŵr fod pawb yma’n cytuno os nad yw awdurdodau lleol yn cael y cyllid, dim ots sut y’i sicrheir, na allant ddarparu mwy o gyfleusterau cyhoeddus a dinesig. Problem gyllid ydyw. Os amddifadwch awdurdodau lleol o’r cyllid hwnnw, bydd yn parhau’n broblem. Ni all unrhyw nifer o ddogfennau ymgynghorol ei datrys.

Inferior quality of service provisions has been hinted at before and the difference between the efficiency of local authorities has now been recognised. Organisational efficiency comes into that. We already know that that is a fact, but it has not yet been explored properly. If some local authorities are more or less efficient than others, we need to know which are performing efficiently or inefficiently and why. Asking them to contribute to a consultation document is hardly likely to solve that problem.

Crybwyllwyd ansawdd gwael darpariaethau gwasanaeth o’r blaen ac mae’r gwahaniaeth rhwng effeithlonrwydd awdurdodau lleol bellach wedi’i gydnabod. Mae a wnelo hynny ag effeithlonrwydd trefniadaethol. Gwyddom eisoes fod hynny’n ffaith, ond nid yw wedi’i hymchwilio’n iawn eto. Os yw rhai awdurdodau lleol yn fwy neu’n llai effeithlon nag eraill, mae angen inni wybod pa rai sydd yn perfformio’n effeithlon neu’n aneffeithlon, a pham. Go brin fod gofyn iddynt gyfrannu at ddogfen ymgynghorol yn debygol o ddatrys y broblem honno.

I do not want to be entirely negative. Therefore, I ask Peter Law to note that I have given some thought to the problems of social deprivation among young people and the fact that it often leads to drug dependency and other problems. It would be helpful to consider funding youth groups such as the scouts movement and army cadets, which take young people from deprived backgrounds and open their eyes to new challenges and possibilities—

Nid oes arnaf eisiau bod yn gwbl negyddol. Felly, gofynnaf i Peter Law nodi fy mod wedi ystyried problemau amddifadedd cymdeithasol ymysg pobl ifanc a’r ffaith ei fod yn aml yn arwain at ddibyniaeth ar gyffuriau a phroblemau eraill. Byddai’n fuddiol ystyried ariannu grwpiau ieuenctid fel mudiad y sgowtiaid a chadlanciau’r fyddin, sydd yn cymryd pobl ifanc o gefndiroedd difreintiedig ac yn agor eu llygaid i sialensiau a phosibiliadau newydd—

Kirsty Williams spoken in English p. 54

Kirsty Williams siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 54

Do you agree that, in rural areas, the young farmers’ clubs are a prime example of how organisations can get young people involved in their local society and involved in worthwhile activities and training programmes, and that, as you said this lunchtime, the YFC is another organisation that is struggling because of a lack of core funding?

A ydych yn cytuno bod clybiau’r ffermwyr ieuainc yn esiampl wych mewn ardaloedd gwledig o’r modd y gall mudiadau gael pobl ifanc i gymryd rhan yn eu cymdeithas leol ac ymwneud â rhaglenni hyfforddi a gweithgareddau gwerth chweil, a bod CFfI, fel y dywedasoch amser cinio heddiw, yn fudiad arall sydd mewn anawsterau oherwydd diffyg ariannu craidd?

David Davies spoken in English p. 54

David Davies siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 54

I happily endorse all of that. The young farmers’ movement does an excellent job and it is a great pity that rural areas are not currently seen as deprived areas in need of extra funding. The young farmers’ movement is a good youth organisation and there are many others. I hope that the Secretary will look positively at more funding for groups such as the Scouts.

Yr wyf yn hapus i ategu hynny i gyd. Mae mudiad y ffermwyr ieuainc yn gwneud gwaith ardderchog ac mae’n drueni mawr na welir ardaloedd gwledig ar hyn o bryd fel ardaloedd difreintiedig sydd angen cyllid ychwanegol. Mae mudiad y ffermwyr ieuainc yn fudiad ieuenctid da ac mae sawl un arall. Gobeithio yr edrycha’r Ysgrifennydd yn gadarnhaol ar ddarparu mwy o arian i grwpiau fel y Sgowtiaid.

A lack of access to services, including information and advice from councils, is also a big problem, but let us get on with sorting it out now. We have a Local Government Secretary here: he must be aware of the councils where this is a problem. Why not start talking to them and ask them to solve the problem immediately, instead of going out to consultation?

Mae diffyg mynediad at wasanaethau, gan gynnwys cyngor a gwybodaeth gan gynghorau, yn broblem fawr hefyd, ond dewch inni fynd ati i’w datrys yn awr. Mae gennym Ysgrifennydd Llywodraeth Leol yma: rhaid ei fod yn ymwybodol o’r cynghorau lle mae hyn yn broblem. Beth am ddechrau siarad â hwy a gofyn iddynt ddatrys y broblem yn syth, yn hytrach na mynd allan i ymgynghori?

To go back to Kirsty’s point: please start looking at rurality as a factor in terms of deprivation, because the new formulas reduce the weighting given to rurality. As we know there is a huge problem in rural areas at the moment. Farmers’ incomes are falling, and reducing funding for rural areas at such a time adds insult to injury.

I ddychwelyd at bwynt Kirsty: os gwelwch yn dda dechreuwch edrych ar y ffactor gwledig yn nhermau amddifadedd, oherwydd mae’r fformwlâu newydd yn lleihau’r elfen bwysau a ychwanegir i ardaloedd gwledig. Fel y gwyddom, mae problem anferth yng nghefn gwlad ar hyn o bryd. Mae incwm ffermwyr yn cwympo, a rhoi halen ar y briw yw lleihau cyllid i ardaloedd gwledig ar adeg fel hyn.

Carwyn Jones spoken in English p. 54

Carwyn Jones siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 54

You represent a party that destroyed the mining communities in the 1980s, that destroyed their economic and social base and then—to add insult to injury—called them ‘the enemy within’. What can you say about building communities? All your party has ever done is destroy them.

Yr ydych chi’n cynrychioli plaid a ddinistriodd y cymunedau glofaol yn yr 1980au, a ddinistriodd eu sylfaen economaidd a chymdeithasol ac wedyn—i rwbio halen yn y briw—eu galw ‘y gelyn oddi mewn’. Beth allwch chi ei ddweud am adeiladu cymunedau? Y cwbl a wnaeth eich plaid chi erioed oedd eu distrywio.

David Davies spoken in English p. 55

David Davies siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 55

The comments about ‘the enemy within’ referred to left-wing agitators who tried to use people’s misery as a tool for promoting their extreme political propaganda. As the grandson of a miner you should know, as I do, that there was a huge problem in the mining industry of mines becoming increasingly uneconomic. Miners always said that they never wanted to see their children or grandchildren go down the pit. Although what happened in the 1980s was very sad, much was done to bring investment into these communities—

Cyfeirio yr oedd y sylwadau at ‘y gelyn oddi mewn’ at aflonyddwyr adain-chwith a geisiodd ddefnyddio trueni pobl fel arf i hyrwyddo’u propaganda gwleidyddol eithafol. Fel ŵyr i löwr, dylech wybod, fel y gwn i, fod problem enfawr yn y diwydiant glo bryd hynny am fod y pyllau’n mynd yn fwyfwy aneconomaidd. Dywedai’r glowyr o hyd nad oeddent byth eisiau gweld eu plant na’u hwyrion yn mynd i lawr y pwll. Er bod yr hyn a ddigwyddodd yn y 1980au’n drist iawn, gwnaethpwyd llawer i ddod â buddsoddiad i’r cymunedau hyn—

Dafydd Elis-Thomas The Presiding Officer spoken in English p. 55

Dafydd Elis-Thomas Y Llywydd siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 55

Order. I know that you may aspire to be an Assembly Secretary, but you have had nine minutes.

Trefn. Gwn efallai eich bod a’ch bryd ar fod yn Ysgrifennydd Cynulliad, ond yr ydych wedi cael naw munud.

David Davies spoken in English p. 55

David Davies siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 55

I am not negative, but I am frustrated because I suspect that this is another motion of fine words that will be followed by very little action. We will support the motion. We hope, when the consultation period finally ends, that this Assembly and the Government of Wales will be as enthusiastic about implementing solutions to the problems as they have been about discussing them.

Nid wyf yn negyddol, ond yr wyf yn rhwystredig oherwydd amheuaf mai cynnig arall llawn geiriau teg yw hwn a ddilynir gan ychydig iawn o weithredu. Cefnogwn y cynnig. Gobeithiwn, pan ddaw’r cyfnod ymgynghori i ben o’r diwedd, y bydd y Cynulliad hwn a Llywodraeth Cymru mor frwd dros weithredu atebion i’r problemau ag y buont dros eu trafod.

Peter Black spoken in English p. 55

Peter Black siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 55

Listening to that, I thought that I had wandered into the wrong debate.

Wrth wrando ar hynny, credais fy mod wedi crwydro i mewn i’r ddadl anghywir.

I propose amendment 4. Add at the end:

Cynigiaf welliant 4. Ychwaneger ar y diwedd:

Peter Black (continued) spoken in English p. 56

Peter Black (parhad) siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 56

I commend the Government on the concept behind the Communities First consultation. The Liberal Democrats believe that communities should be the basic building blocks of a successful and vibrant society. They should be there to support and help to develop the individuals in them and work together for the common good. The support network that can be provided by a living and proactive community can be vital in tackling deprivation and poverty through generating self-confidence, allowing people to achieve their full potential and tackling the sort of anti-social behaviour that can often lead to a spiral of decline.

Cymeradwyaf y Llywodraeth ar y cysyniad y tu cefn i’r ymgynghoriad Cymunedau’n Gyntaf. Cred y Democratiaid Rhyddfrydol mai cymunedau ddylai ffurfio blociau adeiladu sylfaenol cymdeithas lwyddiannus a byw. Dylent fod yno i gynnal a helpu datblygu’r unigolion o’u mewn a chydweithio er lles pawb. Gall y rhwydwaith cynnal y gall cymuned fyw a rhagweithiol ei ddarparu fod yn allweddol i fynd i’r afael ag amddifadedd a thlodi drwy gynhyrchu hunan-hyder, caniatáu i bobl gyflawni’u llawn botensial a mynd i’r afael â’r math o ymddygiad gwrth-gymdeithasol a all arwain yn aml at drobwll dinistriol.

However, to build successful communities, particularly in deprived areas, we need resources, effective action on debilitating factors—such as crime, poor housing, poor health and a poor skills base—and, often, outside intervention. We can all sign up to the principles espoused by this document: a long-term commitment for funding and resourcing, targeting the most deprived communities, the promotion of partnerships and non-prescriptive action.

Fodd bynnag, er mwyn adeiladu cymunedau llwyddiannus, yn enwedig mewn ardaloedd difreintiedig, mae angen adnoddau, gweithredu’n effeithiol i wrthweithio ffactorau negyddol—fel troseddu, tai gwael, iechyd gwael a sylfaen sgiliau wael—ac, yn aml, ymyriad o’r tu allan. Gallwn i gyd gytuno â’r egwyddorion a arddelir gan y ddogfen hon: ymrwymiad tymor hir i sicrhau cyllid ac adnoddau, targedu’r cymunedau mwyaf difreintiedig, hyrwyddo partneriaethau a gweithredu nad yw’n gyfarwyddol.

However, there is a strong impression that the document that we are discussing is half-formed. The result of the consultation is not available to us, even though the motion tells us that it is enthusiastic. There is no action plan to tell us what is to be done, in which communities and how the available resources are to be prioritised.

Fodd bynnag, ceir argraff gryf mai dogfen wedi’i hanner ffurfio yw’r ddogfen sydd dan sylw gennym. Nid yw canlyniad yr ymgynghori ar gael inni, er bod y cynnig yn sôn am ymateb brwdfrydig. Nid oes cynllun gweithredu i ddweud wrthym beth sydd i’w wneud, ym mha gymunedau a sut y blaenoriaethir yr adnoddau sydd ar gael.

I assume that extra resources will be available. I hope that we are not being presented with a re-packaging of current programmes and aspirations. Although in my amendment, I sought to identify some of the issues facing communities, such as the need to target health resources to our most deprived communities, the need for housing improvement areas, a better environment, access to affordable transport, jobs, training, and smaller class sizes in modernised schools, there is also a need to invest in community building.

Yr wyf yn rhagdybio y bydd adnoddau ychwanegol ar gael. Gobeithio nad ailbecynnu rhaglenni a dyheadau cyfredol sydd ger ein bron. Er imi geisio enwi rhai o’r materion sydd yn wynebu cymunedau yn fy ngwelliant, fel yr angen i dargedu adnoddau iechyd i’n cymunedau mwyaf difreintiedig, yr angen am ardaloedd gwella tai, gwell amgylchedd, mynediad at gludiant y gellir ei fforddio, swyddi, hyfforddiant, a meintiau dosbarthiadau llai mewn ysgolion modern, y mae angen buddsoddi mewn adeiladu cymunedol hefyd.

Janet Ryder is correct in amendment 2 that communities need to be empowered to identify their problems and devise their own solutions. She is also right to highlight the need to move away from the use of grants. Local groups and voluntary sector organisations, on which many communities depend for capacity building, need certainty of funding for core activities. They also need to be freed from the bureaucracy and uncertainty of constant applications and the small pots of money allocated for specific projects. They would be better served using that money to develop their activities systematically and logically for their core functions. Many of these pots of money are outside the Assembly’s control—I refer to Home Office money for tackling drug and alcohol abuse specifically.

Mae Janet Ryder yn gywir yng ngwelliant 2 fod angen grymuso cymunedau i nodi’u problemau eu hunain a dyfeisio’u hatebion eu hunain. Mae hi’n gywir hefyd i danlinellu’r angen i symud i ffwrdd oddi wrth ddefnyddio grantiau. Mae ar grwpiau lleol a mudiadau’r sector gwirfoddol, y mae llawer o gymunedau’n dibynnu arnynt er mwyn adeiladu gallu, angen sicrwydd cyllid ar gyfer gweithgareddau craidd. Mae arnynt angen eu rhyddhau hefyd o’r fiwrocratiaeth a’r ansicrwydd o wneud ceisiadau o hyd a’r potiau bach o arian a ddyrennir ar gyfer prosiectau penodol. Byddai’n well ganddynt ddefnyddio’r arian hwnnw i ddatblygu’u gweithgareddau’n systemataidd ac yn rhesymegol ar gyfer eu swyddogaethau craidd. Mae llawer o’r potiau arian hyn y tu allan i reolaeth y Cynulliad—cyfeiriaf at arian y Swyddfa Gartref ar gyfer mynd i’r afael â chamddefnydd cyffuriau ac alcohol yn benodol.

We should examine how we fund the voluntary sector in partnership with local councils to give the continuity of funding that is necessary for stable communities. A community development foundation document sums it up:

Dylem archwilio’r modd yr ariannwn y sector gwirfoddol mewn partneriaeth gyda chynghorau lleol i roi’r dilyniant cyllid sydd yn angenrheidiol i gymunedau sefydlog. Mae dogfen sylfaen datblygu cymunedol yn crynhoi’r peth:

‘Many schemes consist of short-term projects, yet they aim to meet enduring needs.’

‘Prosiectau tymor byr yw cynnwys llawer o gynlluniau, eto maent yn anelu at ateb anghenion parhaus.’

They often raise community expectations, only to dash them about three years later. They may be underfunded and regarded as peripheral to the main work of the sponsoring agency. The document goes on to say that top-down policies are not sufficiently effective and may even contribute to social exclusion, a sentiment reflected in the document. However, efforts to promote sustained bottom-up development and effective co-ordination have sometimes been haphazard.

Maent yn aml yn codi disgwyliadau’r gymuned, dim ond i’w chwalu eto ryw dair blynedd yn ddiweddarach. Gallant fod wedi’u tangyllido a’u hystyried yn rhywbeth ymylol i brif waith yr asiantaeth noddi. Aiff y ddogfen ymlaen i ddweud nad yw polisïau o’r brig i lawr yn ddigon effeithiol ac y gallant hyd yn oed gyfrannu at allgáu cymdeithasol, teimlad a adlewyrchir yn y ddogfen. Fodd bynnag, digon blêr weithiau fu ymdrechion i hyrwyddo datblygiad parhaus o’r gwaelod i fyny a chydlynu effeithiol.

It is essential, therefore, that we supplement the many policy initiatives that we take on crime, health, education, transport, housing and economic development, with effective community development work carried out strategically and properly funded. In this way, we can build the capacity of individuals and communities so that they can properly benefit from our work.

Mae’n hanfodol felly ein bod yn ategu’r mentrau polisi niferus a gymerwn ar droseddu, iechyd, addysg, cludiant, tai a datblygu economaidd, gyda gwaith datblygu cymunedol effeithiol a wneir yn strategol ac a ariennir yn iawn. Fel hyn, gallwn adeiladu gallu unigolion a chymunedau fel y gallant elwa’n iawn o’n gwaith.

New money is essential, as is proper co-ordination across all the Assembly’s activities. Partnership with the communities themselves, Assembly sponsored public bodies and other bodies, is also a major requirement. Although partnership is not an easy option and can be hard work, it has its rewards.

Mae arian newydd yn hanfodol, ynghyd â chydlynu iawn ar draws holl weithgareddau’r Cynulliad. Mae partneriaeth gyda’r cymunedau eu hunain, cyrff cyhoeddus a noddir gan y Cynulliad a chyrff eraill, yn brif hanfod hefyd. Er nad yw partneriaeth yn ddewis hawdd, ac y gall fod yn waith caled, y mae’n werth chweil.

We also need to look fundamentally at how we budget the money. We must budget for cause and effect by investing in long-term solutions. If better housing produces savings in the health budget in 10 years’ time, we must find a way to bring those savings forward to make that vital investment. If intensive investment in a deprived community raises skills levels, leading to better employment prospects, new jobs, and enhanced tax revenues, we must find a way to invest the anticipated extra revenue to start the process.

Mae angen inni edrych yn sylfaenol hefyd ar y ffordd y cyllidebwn yr arian. Rhaid inni gyllidebu ar gyfer achos ac effaith drwy fuddsoddi mewn atebion tymor hir. Os bydd tai gwell yn cynhyrchu arbedion yn y gyllideb iechyd ymhen 10 mlynedd, rhaid inni ganfod ffordd o ddod â’r arbedion hynny ymlaen i wneud y buddsoddiad hanfodol hwnnw. Os bydd buddsoddiad dwys mewn cymuned ddifreintiedig yn codi lefelau sgiliau, gan arwain at well rhagolygon cyflogaeth, swyddi newydd, a chynnydd mewn refeniw treth, rhaid inni ganfod ffordd o fuddsoddi’r refeniw ychwanegol a ragwelir i roi cychwyn ar y broses.

The challenge that this document represents is bigger than it imagines. The joined-up thinking and leaps of imagination needed to make it work properly will fundamentally change the way we run Wales, by giving power back to communities and individuals. However, if we are to meet that challenge and take that leap, we need more than a concept. We need a fully worked up action plan, new money, new partnerships and new hope.

Mae’r her a gynrychiolir gan y ddogfen hon yn fwy nag a ddychmyga. Bydd y meddwl cydlynol a’r neidiau dychymyg sydd eu hangen i wneud iddi weithio’n iawn yn newid y ffordd yr ydym yn rhedeg Cymru yn sylfaenol, drwy roi grym yn ôl i gymunedau ac unigolion. Fodd bynnag, os ydym am gwrdd â’r her honno a chymryd y naid honno, mae arnom angen mwy na chysyniad. Mae angen cynllun gweithredu cyflawn, arian newydd, partneriaethau newydd a gobaith newydd.

Brian Gibbons spoken in English p. 59

Brian Gibbons siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 59

For me, this debate represents the National Assembly’s coming of age. It is just over a year since it came into being. Most of us came to this Assembly to make Wales a new, thriving and dynamic country, in which all our citizens could have equal opportunities to the life chances that exist. The single programming document was approved last week and we are now discussing the Communities First document today. We are beginning to tackle the fundamental problems that we face in Wales.

I mi, mae’r ddadl hon yn dangos bod y Cynulliad Cenedlaethol wedi dod i oed. Ychydig dros flwyddyn sydd ers iddo ddod i fodolaeth. Daeth y rhan fwyaf ohonom i’r Cynulliad hwn i wneud Cymru’n wlad newydd, ffyniannus a dynamig, lle gallai’n dinasyddion i gyd gael cyfle cyfartal i fanteisio ar y cyfleoedd bywyd sydd yn bodoli. Cymeradwywyd y ddogfen raglennu sengl yr wythnos diwethaf ac yr ydym yn trafod y ddogfen Cymunedau’n Gyntaf heddiw. Yr ydym yn dechrau mynd i’r afael â’r problemau sylfaenol a wynebwn yng Nghymru.

Central to tackling these challenges are the three principles underpinning the ‘Betterwales.com’ document. These are to tackle social disadvantage, to provide equality of opportunity and to do so sustainably. It is worth recording that the Labour Government has already delivered on many of these issues. Unemployment is at a record low, the lowest in about 20 years. The Government has introduced the minimum wage, the New Deal, working families’ tax credit and record levels of child benefit. It has restored fairness and trade union rights in the workplace, and delivered Objective 1 for Wales.

Yn ganolog i fynd i’r afael â’r heriau hyn mae’r tair egwyddor sydd wrth wraidd y ddogfen ‘Gwellcymru.com’, sef mynd i’r afael ag anfantais gymdeithasol, darparu cyfle cyfartal a gwneud hynny mewn modd cynaliadwy. Mae’n werth cofnodi bod y Llywodraeth Lafur eisoes wedi cyflawni ar lawer o’r materion hyn. Mae diweithdra ar ei isaf ers rhyw 20 mlynedd. Cyflwynodd y Llywodraeth yr isafswm cyflog, y Fargen Newydd, credyd treth i deulu mewn gwaith a’r lefelau uchaf erioed o fudd-dal plant. Adferodd degwch a hawliau undebau llafur yn y gweithle, a sicrhaodd Amcan 1 i Gymru.

The Welsh Labour administration has secured approval of the Objective 1 programme, provided £110 million extra for health and £50 million extra for education in this year alone, as well as having facilitated the implementation of Sure Start and the Child and Youth Partnership programme. It has a substantial record of achievement under its belt. On top of that, 50 to 60 programmes are in place to tackle social exclusion. That is what Communities First is about. It is about bringing all these programmes together and focusing them in a new and targeted way.

Mae gweinyddiaeth Lafur Cymru wedi sicrhau cymeradwyaeth i’r rhaglen Amcan 1, wedi darparu £110 miliwn ychwanegol ar gyfer iechyd a £50 miliwn ychwanegol ar gyfer addysg eleni yn unig, yn ogystal â bod wedi hwyluso gweithredu Cychwyn Cadarn a rhaglen y Bartneriaeth Plant ac Ieuenctid. Mae ganddi record sylweddol o lwyddiannau. Ar ben hynny, mae 50 i 60 o raglenni yn eu lle i fynd i’r afael ag allgáu cymdeithasol. Dyna fwriad Cymunedau’n Gyntaf. Ei fwriad yw dod â’r rhaglenni hyn i gyd ynghyd a’u ffocysu mewn ffordd newydd wedi’i thargedu.

Targeting is essential to deliver Communities First. Too often in the past, similar well-intentioned plans have been poorly focused and superficially implemented and have only dealt with the soft underbelly of the problem of social and economic deprivation in Wales. Virtually all those programmes failed to deliver long-lasting and sustainable change in the communities that most needed it. We therefore need to target our programmes accurately and correctly identify the areas of greatest need. We must then require our public bodies to target their efforts in these areas in an integrated and co-ordinated way. These bodies include our local councils, housing bodies, health agencies, economic regeneration agencies, police forces, transport agencies, social care agencies, the private and voluntary sector and, most importantly, the most affected communities.

Mae targedu’n hanfodol i weithredu Cymunedau’n Gyntaf. Yn rhy aml yn y gorffennol, cafodd cynlluniau tebyg llawn bwriadau da eu ffocysu’n wael a’u gweithredu’n arwynebol, heb ddim ond delio â man gwan meddal problem amddifadedd cymdeithasol ac economaidd yng Nghymru. Methu wnaeth y cyfan fwy neu lai o’r rhaglenni hyn â sicrhau newid parhaol a chynaliadwy yn y cymunedau lle’r oedd ei angen fwyaf. Felly, mae angen inni dargedu’n rhaglenni’n gywir a nodi’n gywir yr ardaloedd lle mae’r angen mwyaf. Wedyn rhaid inni fynnu bod ein cyrff cyhoeddus yn targedu’u hymdrechion yn yr ardaloedd hyn mewn ffordd integredig a chydlynol. Mae’r cyrff hyn yn cynnwys ein cynghorau lleol, cyrff tai, asiantaethau iechyd, asiantaethau adfywio economaidd, heddluoedd, asiantaethau trafnidiaeth, asiantaethau gofal cymdeithasol, y sector preifat a gwirfoddol ac, yn bwysicaf oll, y cymunedau yr effeithir fwyaf arnynt.

Those of us who live in the most needy communities in Wales know that they are vibrant and energetic places, but that they frequently lack the knowledge and capacity to begin to deliver the necessary change. That is what Communities First is all about. If we are to deliver change, we need the resources to do it. It must be accepted that unless these resources are forthcoming, it is not realistic to even begin to implement these changes. We need a genuine transfer of resources from those who are wealthy in Wales, and in Britain, to those who are most in need. The Welsh Labour administration has shown courage in beginning to make tough decisions to achieve that.

Gŵyr y rheini ohonom sydd yn byw yn y cymunedau mwyaf anghenus yng Nghymru eu bod yn lleoedd bywiog ac egnïol, ond eu bod yn aml heb yr wybodaeth a’r gallu i ddechrau cyflawni’r newid angenrheidiol. Dyna fwriad Cymunedau’n Gyntaf. Os am sicrhau newid, mae angen inni gael yr adnoddau i wneud hynny. Rhaid derbyn oni cheir yr adnoddau hyn, nad yw’n realistig hyd yn oed i ddechrau gweithredu’r newidiadau hyn. Mae arnom angen gwir drosglwyddiad adnoddau oddi wrth y cyfoethogion yng Nghymru, ac ym Mhrydain, i’r rheini sydd â’r angen mwyaf. Mae’r weinyddiaeth Lafur yng Nghymru wedi dangos dewrder wrth ddechrau gwneud penderfyniadau caled i sicrhau hynny.

Jane Hutt has established the resource allocation formula working group under the chairmanship of Peter Townsend to consider how health resources are allocated in Wales and, in particular, to ensure that health funding is targeted in the most socially deprived areas.

Mae Jane Hutt wedi sefydlu’r gweithgor ar y fformwla ddyrannu adnoddau dan gadeiryddiaeth Peter Townsend i ystyried y modd y dyrennir adnoddau iechyd yng Nghymru ac, yn arbennig, i sicrhau y targedir cyllid iechyd yn yr ardaloedd mwyaf cymdeithasol ddifreintiedig.

Earlier this week, Peter Law took the courageous step of introducing a new formula for local government allocation, which places a priority on ensuring that resources go to the areas of greatest need. We need a similar philosophy to permeate policy decisions in this Assembly. Resources must go to the areas of greatest need. However, the Labour Party is a minority party in the National Assembly. It cannot deliver these policies without the support and co-operation of other parties.

Yn gynharach yr wythnos hon, cymerodd Peter Law y cam dewr o gyflwyno fformwla newydd ar gyfer dyraniadau llywodraeth leol, sydd yn rhoi blaenoriaeth ar sicrhau yr aiff adnoddau i’r ardaloedd lle mae’r angen mwyaf. Mae angen i athroniaeth debyg dreiddio i benderfyniadau polisi yn y Cynulliad hwn. Rhaid i adnoddau fynd i’r ardaloedd lle mae’r angen mwyaf. Fodd bynnag, plaid leiafrifol yn y Cynulliad Cenedlaethol yw’r Blaid Lafur. Ni all gyflwyno’r polisïau hyn heb gefnogaeth a chydweithrediad pleidiau eraill.

A danger in preparing a speech before you hear Members’ contributions is that you are then a hostage to what people say in the debate. I had written that we could not look to the Conservative Party for much help in delivering this particular objective, but in view of David Davies’s speech, one wonders. However, we need to remember that the Conservative Party is the party that says there is no such thing as society, although perhaps it is learning otherwise. The Conservative Party’s basic philosophy is ‘more to those who have and less to those who have not’. David Davies spoke of speed and haste. What about the 18 years of his Government? More realistically, we look to the other opposition parties for help. There is no doubt that on many of these issues and in the contributions that we have heard they have been excellent at talking the talk but they have been poor at walking the walk when it comes to making difficult decisions.

Un perygl o baratoi araith cyn clywed cyfraniadau’r Aelodau yw eich bod wedyn yn wystl i’r hyn a ddywed pobl yn y ddadl. Yr oeddwn wedi ysgrifennu na allem edrych tua’r Blaid Geidwadol am lawer o gymorth i sicrhau’r amcan arbennig hwn, ond yn wyneb araith David Davies, tybed yn wir. Fodd bynnag, rhaid cofio mai’r Blaid Geidwadol yw’r blaid sydd yn dweud nad oes y fath beth â chymdeithas, er ei bod efallai’n dysgu fel arall. Athroniaeth sylfaenol y Blaid Geidwadol yw ‘mwy i’r rhai sydd â digon a llai i’r rhai sydd heb ddim’. Siaradodd David Davies am frysio. Beth am y 18 mlynedd dan ei Lywodraeth ef? Yn fwy realistig, edrychwn i’r gwrthbleidiau eraill am gymorth. Nid oes amheuaeth, ar lawer o’r materion hyn ac yn y cyfraniadau a glywsom ganddynt, eu bod wedi bod yn ardderchog am siarad ond yn wael am weithredu pan ddaw’n fater o wneud penderfyniadau anodd.

David Davies spoken in English p. 61

David Davies siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 61

Will the Member agree that during the 18 years of the last Conservative Government, living standards rose by an enormous amount in this country?

A wnaiff yr Aelod gytuno y cododd safonau byw yn y wlad hon yn aruthrol yn ystod 18 mlynedd y Llywodraeth Geidwadol ddiwethaf?

Brian Gibbons spoken in English p. 62

Brian Gibbons siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 62

I have lived in a mining valley during the 21 years that I have lived in Wales. We are talking about such communities. If you are seriously telling me that the standard of living in such communities has improved, I emphatically deny it. Communities First is about reversing what your party has done to our communities.

Yr wyf i wedi byw mewn cwm glofaol yn ystod yr 21 mlynedd y bûm yn byw yng Nghymru. Sôn am gymunedau o’r fath yr ydym. Os ydych chi’n dweud wrthyf fi o ddifrif fod y safon byw mewn cymunedau o’r fath wedi gwella, yr wyf yn gwadu hynny’n bendant. Amcan Cymunedau’n Gyntaf yw gwrthdroi’r hyn a wnaeth eich plaid chi i’n cymunedau.

Many of the opposition parties have talked the talk but they have not walked the walk. They have hunted with the hares and run with the hounds—probably literally as well as politically. However, whenever there has been a difficult decision to make they have said that we do not have the powers to deliver or that the answer is to go to London with a begging bowl. They never seem to have the political courage or will to work to achieve solutions in Wales. Communities First is about working with the powers and resources we have to make decisions and to deliver policies to ensure a better deal for the most hard-pressed communities in Wales.

Mae llawer o’r gwrthbleidiau wedi siarad y filltir ond heb ei cherdded. Maent wedi rhedeg gyda’r cadno a hela gyda’r cŵn—yn llythrennol yn ogystal ag yn weithredol, mae’n debyg. Fodd bynnag, pryd bynnag y bu angen gwneud penderfyniad anodd maent wedi dweud nad oes gennym y grym i wneud dim neu mai’r ateb yw mynd i Lundain â’n cap yn ein llaw. Nid yw’n ymddangos bod ganddynt byth y dewrder na’r ewyllys gwleidyddol i sicrhau atebion yng Nghymru. Amcan Cymunedau’n Gyntaf yw gweithio gyda’r pwerau a’r adnoddau sydd gennym i wneud penderfyniadau a chyflwyno polisïau i sicrhau gwell bargen i’r cymunedau mwyaf dirwasgedig yng Nghymru.

Ann Jones spoken in English p. 62

Ann Jones siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 62

I welcome the opportunity to speak in this debate. I am your hostage to fortune, Brian. I will throw my speech away because you have probably said most of it. The Communities First initiative is intended to be a radical, innovative and groundbreaking scheme with real potential to provide a structure for the effective and sustainable regeneration of our deprived communities. It was pleasing to hear David Melding speak in the last debate about how the voluntary partnership and voluntary organisations can be seen to be at the heart of our communities and society. I was beginning to think that the light had dawned over there on the Conservative side of the Chamber when along came David Davies. Enough has been said about that. I will just add, David, that perhaps your grandfather got his wish: you did not go down the pit because your Government managed to close all the pits before you began looking for a job.

Croesawaf y cyfle i siarad yn y ddadl hon. Fi yw eich gwystl i ffawd, Brian. Taflaf fy araith i ffwrdd oherwydd mae’n debyg eich bod chi wedi dweud y rhan fwyaf ohoni. Bwriad y cynllun Cymunedau’n Gyntaf yw bod yn gynllun radical, newydd ac arloesol gyda gwir botensial i ddarparu fframwaith ar gyfer adfywiad effeithiol a chynaliadwy ein cymunedau difreintiedig. Da oedd clywed David Melding yn siarad yn y ddadl ddiwethaf am y modd y gellir gweld bod y bartneriaeth wirfoddol a chyrff gwirfoddol wrth galon ein cymunedau a’n cymdeithas. Yr oeddwn yn dechrau meddwl bod y golau wedi gwawrio draw fan acw ar ochr Geidwadol y Siambr, nes daeth David Davies i’r adwy. Dywedwyd digon am hynny. Dim ond ychwanegu wnaf, David, efallai y cafodd eich tad-cu ei ddymuniad: nid aethoch i lawr y pwll oherwydd llwyddodd eich Llywodraeth i gau’r pyllau i gyd cyn i chi ddechrau chwilio am waith.

David Melding a gododd—

David Melding rose—

Ann Jones spoken in English p. 62

Ann Jones siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 62

I only have a couple of minutes, David. I will talk to you later. I have praised you, so I am not sure why you want to intervene.

Dim ond munud neu ddau sydd gennyf, David. Siaradaf â chi’n ddiweddarach. Yr wyf wedi’ch canmol, felly nid wyf yn siŵr pam yr ydych eisiau ymyrryd.

Communities First is a serious issue for many in my constituency. Yesterday Dr Brian Gibbons launched his map of Wales having considered all the reports published on deprivation and on communities that have suffered from it. While the majority of them are in the south Wales valleys, many of them are in my constituency. Communities First will have real meaning for those people in my constituency. Deprived communities suffer from a frighteningly wide range of interconnected problems: bad housing, high unemployment and low levels of educational achievement. These, in turn, lead to further problems such as crime, dependency on drugs and anti-social behaviour. Like David Davies, I support considering funding the Scout movement and youth clubs, but does he agree that 30 per cent of the young people in these deprived communities are socially excluded from such organisations? Communities First is about tackling the social exclusion of those people. The hopelessness that many of these people in these communities feel is terrible. Sticking plaster solutions will not address the deep-rooted and joined-up problems suffered by the deprived communities in my constituency and across Wales. We need to restore hope to the men, women and children in those areas. I believe that Communities First will do that. It will take time and money. Welsh Labour is serious about creating one nation in Wales, about healing divisions in society, about empowering the entire country and delivering on our commitments in ‘Betterwales.com’ and Communities First. It is imperative that we drive ahead with those initiatives.

Mae Cymunedau’n Gyntaf yn fater difrifol i lawer yn f’etholaeth. Ddoe, lansiodd Dr Brian Gibbons ei fap o Gymru wedi ystyried yr holl adroddiadau a gyhoeddwyd ar amddifadedd ac ar gymunedau a ddioddefodd yn ei sgîl. Mae’r mwyafrif ohonynt yng nghymoedd y de, ond mae llawer yn f’etholaeth i. Bydd gan Cymunedau’n Gyntaf wir ystyr i’r bobl hynny yn f’etholaeth i. Mae cymunedau difreintiedig yn dioddef o amrediad dychrynllyd o eang o broblemau cydgysylltiedig: tai gwael, diweithdra uchel a lefelau isel o gyrhaeddiad addysgol. Mae’r rhain, yn eu tro, yn arwain at broblemau pellach fel troseddu, dibyniaeth ar gyffuriau ac ymddygiad gwrth-gymdeithasol. Fel David Davies, cefnogaf ein bod yn ystyried ariannu mudiad y Sgowtiaid a chlybiau ieuenctid, ond a ydyw’n cytuno bod 30 y cant o’r bobl ifanc yn y cymunedau difreintiedig hyn wedi’u hallgáu’n gymdeithasol o sefydliadau o’r fath? Amcan Cymunedau’n Gyntaf yw mynd i’r afael ag allgáu cymdeithasol y bobl hynny. Mae’r anobaith a deimlir gan lawer o’r bobl hyn yn y cymunedau hyn yn ofnadwy. Ni wnaiff atebion tâp-glynu ateb y problemau dwfn a chydgysylltiedig a ddioddefir gan y cymunedau difreintiedig yn f’etholaeth i ac ar draws Cymru. Mae angen adfer gobaith i’r dynion, y gwragedd a’r plant yn yr ardaloedd hynny. Credaf y bydd Cymunedau’n Gyntaf yn gwneud hynny. Fe gymer amser ac arian. Mae Llafur Cymru o ddifrif ynghylch creu un genedl yng Nghymru, ynghylch iacháu rhaniadau mewn cymdeithas, ynghylch grymuso’r wlad gyfan a gwireddu’n hymrwymiadau yn ‘Gwellcymru.com’ a Cymunedau’n Gyntaf. Rhaid inni yrru ymlaen â’r cynlluniau hynny.

The joined-up nature of social problems is demonstrated at almost every meeting of the Health and Social Services Committee that I attend. The impact of poverty and deprivation on health indicators is plain for all to see. We must also note that Communities First is a way of looking at targeting local health black spots, which correspond to the areas of deprivation in Wales. That will not surprise anybody in this Chamber. The programme has the potential to improve conditions across the field of social policy. It is important that we use the Communities First programme to tap into the huge reservoirs in the voluntary sector and the local social networks in communities. That means keeping the red tape down to a bare minimum. It means allowing people in communities, as Janet Ryder said, to find their own solutions to their problems, and to work in partnership to ensure that they achieve the end that includes everybody as equals in society. It also means, as this is a groundbreaking scheme, that we must give it time to develop. I am sorry, David, but we must consult properly. We must take time to get it right. We cannot afford to fail these people, as the previous Tory Government did for 18 years.

Dangosir natur gydgysylltiedig problemau cymdeithasol ymron bob cyfarfod o’r Pwyllgor Iechyd a Gwasanaethau Cymdeithasol a fynychaf. Mae effaith tlodi ac amddifadedd ar fynegyddion iechyd yn amlwg i bawb ei gweld. Rhaid inni nodi hefyd fod Cymunedau’n Gyntaf yn ffordd o edrych ar fannau du iechyd yn lleol, sydd yn cyfateb i’r ardaloedd difreintiedig yng Nghymru. Ni fydd hynny’n synnu neb yn y Siambr hon. Mae gan y rhaglen y potensial i wella amodau ar draws maes polisi cymdeithasol. Mae’n bwysig ein bod yn defnyddio’r rhaglen Cymunedau’n Gyntaf i dapio i mewn i’r cronfeydd anferth yn y sector gwirfoddol a’r rhwydweithiau cymdeithasol lleol o fewn cymunedau. Golyga hynny gadw biwrocratiaeth cyn ised ag sydd yn bosibl. Golyga ganiatáu i bobl yn eu cymunedau, fel y dywedodd Janet Ryder, ganfod eu hatebion eu hunain i’w problemau, a gweithio mewn partneriaeth i sicrhau y cyflawnant y nod sydd yn cynnwys pawb fel aelodau cydradd o gymdeithas. Mae’n golygu hefyd, gan fod hwn yn gynllun arloesol, fod yn rhaid inni roi amser iddo ddatblygu. Mae’n ddrwg gennyf, David, ond rhaid inni ymgynghori’n iawn. Rhaid inni gymryd amser i’w wneud yn iawn. Ni allwn fforddio siomi’r bobl hyn, fel y gwnaeth y Llywodraeth Dorïaidd o’n blaenau am 18 mlynedd.

Dafydd Elis-Thomas The Presiding Officer spoken in English p. 64

Dafydd Elis-Thomas Y Llywydd siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 64

I intend to call Jane Hutt to speak at 4.15 p.m. in order to allow time for the subsequent debate. I therefore ask Members to limit the length of their contributions.

Bwriadaf alw ar Jane Hutt i siarad am 4.15 p.m. er mwyn caniatáu amser ar gyfer y ddadl ganlynol. Gofynnaf felly i Aelodau gyfyngu hyd eu cyfraniadau.

Helen Mary Jones siaradwyd yn Gymraeg t. 64

Helen Mary Jones spoken in Welsh p. 64

Mae gennyf ychydig sylwadau, fel cyn-weithwraig gymdeithasol. Fel y dywedodd Janet Ryder ac eraill, rhaid croesawu’r ddogfen gan nad oes unrhyw beth ynddi na ellir ei groesawu. Fodd bynnag, un diffyg sylfaenol yw’r ffaith nad yw’n gwahaniaethu’n ddigon clir rhwng gwaith datblygu cymunedol a datblygu cymunedol. Mae’r cyntaf yn broses ragweithiol o weithredu a gychwynnir y tu allan i’r gymuned gan fudiadau gwirfoddol neu awdurdodau lleol, gyda’r nod o dynnu cymuned ynghyd a datblygu nerth. Mae’r ail yn broses sydd yn gallu digwydd heb ymyrraeth, lle mae aelodau’r gymuned yn dod at ei gilydd i fynnu eu hawliau oddi wrth yr asiantaethau sydd fod i’w gwasanaethu. Yr ail broses yw nod y broses gyntaf—datblygu cymunedol yw nod gwaith datblygu cymunedol.

I have a few comments as a former social worker. As Janet Ryder and others have said, we must welcome this document as there is nothing in it that cannot be welcomed. However, one basic defect is the fact that it does not differentiate sufficiently between community development work and community development. The first is a proactive process of working, which is begun outside the community by voluntary organisations or local authorities, with the aim of bringing the community together and developing strength. The second is a process that can occur without intervention, in which members of the community come together to insist on obtaining their rights from the agencies that are supposed to serve them. The second process is the aim of the first—the aim of community development work is community development.

Yn rhy aml, a dywedaf hyn o brofiad personol, mae gwaith datblygu cymunedol da wedi methu â chyflawni datblygu cymunedol ar lawr gwlad. Achoswyd hynny gan ddau ffactor. Y cyntaf yw diffyg ymrwymiad tymor hir. Mae’r problemau a wynebir mewn rhai cymunedau yn rhai dwys. Nid yw’n ddigon i feirniadu Llywodraeth Dorïaidd yr 20 mlynedd diwethaf. Mae rhai problemau yn mynd yn ôl ymhellach na hynny. Yr ydym yn canfod cymunedau lle nad oes unrhyw un wedi gweithio ers tair cenhedlaeth. I ddatrys y problemau rhaid cael ymrwymiad tymor hir. Ni ellir gwneud llawer o wahaniaeth mewn tair blynedd—prosiectau tair blynedd y tueddwyd i’w cynnal yn y gorffennol. Yr ail ffactor yw diffyg adnoddau a diffyg buddsoddi adnoddau yn y tymor hir.

All too often, and I speak from personal experience, good community development work has failed to achieve community development on the ground. That has been caused by two factors. The first is lack of long-term commitment. The problems faced in some communities are intense. We cannot merely criticise the Tory Government of the past 20 years. Some of the problems go back further than that. We came across communities where no-one has worked for three generations. To solve the problems we must have long-term commitment. You cannot make a great difference in three years—three-year projects were usually held in the past. The second factor is lack of resources and lack of resource investment in the long term.

Mae Cymunedau’n Gyntaf yn cydnabod y problemau hynny a dylid croesawu hynny. Yr ydym ar ganol proses hir o ymgynghori. Croesawaf y broses, er imi ei hystyried yn rhwystredig, gan fod angen inni weithredu, ynghyd â sicrhau bod y broses o dynnu pobl at ei gilydd wedi digwydd. Fodd bynnag, erbyn diwedd y broses, rhaid inni gael ymrwymiad clir a phendant gan Lywodraeth Cymru i ymateb i’r ddwy broblem sylfaenol hynny—diffyg ymrwymiad tymor hir a diffyg adnoddau.

Communities First acknowledges those problems and that should be welcomed. We are in the middle of a lengthy consultation process. I welcome that process, even though I consider it frustrating, because we must act, as well as ensuring that the process of bringing people together has taken place. However, by the end of this process, we must have a clear and definite commitment by the Government of Wales to respond to those two fundamental problems—lack of long-term commitment and lack of resources.

Nid wyf eisiau bod yn negyddol. Mae’r ddogfen yn creu cyfleoedd newydd a phwysig i rai o gymunedau mwyaf anghenus ein gwlad. Fodd bynnag, hoffwn daro nodyn yn gofyn inni fod yn ofalus. Mae’n holl bwysig nad ydym fel gwleidyddion, ar ba bynnag lefel, yn codi gobeithion yn y cymunedau hynny ac yna yn eu chwalu. Mae hynny wedi digwydd yn llawer rhy aml ac mae’n rhaid i ni osgoi gwneud yr un peth.

I do not want to be negative. The document creates new and important opportunities for some of the most deprived communities in our country. However, I wish to strike a note of caution. It is vital that we as politicians, on whatever level, do not raise hopes in those communities and then shatter them. That has happened far too often and we must avoid doing the same thing.

Janice Gregory spoken in English p. 65

Janice Gregory siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 65

Earlier today, I welcomed 10 young people from a youth project in my constituency to the National Assembly for Wales. They live in one of the most deprived areas of Wales. They welcome any initiative that we can implement to improve their lives in the former mining communities in which they live. I explained to them about community spirit. Although there are perhaps some in the Chamber who are negative about Communities First, the people whom I represent are delighted that the National Assembly for Wales and the Labour Government will be doing something to improve their lives.

Yn gynharach heddiw, croesewais 10 o bobl ifanc o brosiect ieuenctid yn fy etholaeth i Gynulliad Cenedlaethol Cymru. Maent yn byw yn un o ardaloedd mwyaf difreintiedig Cymru. Croesawant unrhyw gynllun y gallwn ei weithredu i wella’u bywydau yn yr hen gymunedau glofaol lle maent yn byw. Eglurais iddynt am ysbryd cymunedol. Er bod rhai yn y Siambr efallai sydd yn negyddol ynghylch Cymunedau’n Gyntaf, y mae’r bobl a gynrychiolaf fi wrth eu boddau fod Cynulliad Cenedlaethol Cymru a’r Llywodraeth Lafur am wneud rhywbeth i wella’u bywydau.

Much has been said about the map that was unveiled in Brian Gibbons’s office yesterday. It shows the deprivation in Valley areas and in north Wales, as Ann said. It shows and highlights the exact location of the deprivation. I am sure that I do not have to keep hammering on about this but the industrialised south Wales valleys is one of the most deprived areas in Wales, if not the most deprived. In Ogmore, the map highlights the hardship and social exclusion suffered by the people of the Garw, Ogmore and Llynfi Valleys.

Dywedwyd llawer am y map a ddadorchuddiwyd yn swyddfa Brian Gibbons ddoe. Mae’n dangos yr amddifadedd yn ardaloedd y cymoedd ac yn y gogledd, fel y dywedodd Ann. Mae’n dangos ac yn amlygu union leoliad yr amddifadedd. Yr wyf yn siŵr nad oes raid imi ddal i rygnu ymlaen am hyn ond cymoedd diwydiannol y de yw un o ardaloedd mwyaf difreintiedig Cymru, os nad y mwyaf difreintiedig. Yn Ogwr, mae’r map yn dangos y caledi a’r allgáu cymdeithasol a ddioddefir gan bobl cymoedd Garw, Ogwr a Llynfi.

The Labour-formulated Communities First programme can and will give a long-term commitment to funding and resourcing the urgently needed regeneration of the most deprived areas of Wales. In many communities in the industrial south Wales valleys there are problems such as poor quality housing—we all know about that and it was mentioned by Peter Black—low levels of public and civic amenities, which was mentioned by David, lack of work and training opportunities, drug and alcohol abuse, and poor service provisions. These problems must be addressed soon. It was because of problems such as these that I became an Assembly Member to help to try to eradicate them from our society. At last, we have a Government in Wales that is getting to grips with the problem.

Gall rhaglen y Blaid Lafur, Cymunedau’n Gyntaf, roi ymrwymiad tymor hir i ariannu a sicrhau adnoddau ar gyfer yr adfywiad y mae angen brys amdano yn ardaloedd mwyaf difreintiedig Cymru. Mewn llawer o gymunedau yng nghymoedd diwydiannol y de ceir problemau fel tai gwael—gwyddom i gyd am hynny ac fe’i crybwyllwyd gan Peter Black—lefelau isel mwynderau cyhoeddus a dinesig, y soniodd David amdanynt, diffyg gwaith a chyfleoedd hyfforddi, camddefnydd cyffuriau ac alcohol, a darpariaethau gwasanaeth gwael. Rhaid rhoi sylw i’r problemau hyn yn fuan. Oherwydd problemau fel y rhain y deuthum yn Aelod o’r Cynulliad er mwyn helpu ceisio’u dileu o’n cymdeithas. O’r diwedd, mae gennym Lywodraeth yng Nghymru sydd yn mynd i’r afael â’r broblem.

The picture that I have painted so far does not offer much hope for the future of these deprived communities. However, there is another side to the story, as we have previously heard. I know at first hand of the energy and determination of many hard-working people within these communities. I know of the hard work and goodwill that exists to help ensure a bright and proud future for them; a future that will restore the sense of self-respect and community that was once synonymous with the people of the south Wales valleys.

Nid yw’r darlun a beintiwyd gennyf hyd yma’n cynnig llawer o obaith i ddyfodol y cymunedau difreintiedig hyn. Fodd bynnag, y mae ochr arall i’r stori, fel y clywsom eisoes. Gwn yn bersonol am egni a phenderfyniad llawer o bobl weithgar yn y cymunedau hyn. Gwn am y gwaith caled a’r ewyllys da sydd yn bodoli i helpu sicrhau dyfodol disglair a balch iddynt; dyfodol a fydd yn adfer y teimlad o hunan-barch a chymdeithas a oedd unwaith yn gyfystyr â phobl cymoedd y de.

Many people in Wales are looking to us in the Assembly and to initiatives such as Communities First to strengthen and underpin their community-based projects. These projects can and will speed the process of community regeneration and economic recovery in Wales if we can provide the right kind of support and funding. Too often in the past there has been a distinct lack of cohesion between different funding programmes and a plethora of separate criteria to meet before gaining support. There has been a top-down approach, which has led to difficulties for communities who want to take the lead in their own regeneration. The people in my constituency certainly want to do that.

Mae llawer o bobl yng Nghymru yn edrych atom ni yn y Cynulliad ac at gynlluniau fel Cymunedau’n Gyntaf i gryfhau a rhoi sylfaen i’w prosiectau yn y gymuned. Gall y prosiectau hyn gyflymu proses adfywiad cymunedol ac adferiad economaidd yng Nghymru ac fe wnânt hynny os gallwn ddarparu’r math cywir o gefnogaeth a chyllid. Yn rhy aml yn y gorffennol cafwyd diffyg cydlyniad amlwg rhwng gwahanol raglenni ariannu a pheth wmbredd o wahanol feini prawf i’w bodloni cyn cael cefnogaeth. Cynllun o’r brig i’r gwaelod oedd mewn bri, a arweiniodd at anawsterau i gymunedau a oedd eisiau arwain eu hadfywiad eu hunain. Dyna’n sicr y mae’r bobl yn f’etholaeth i eisiau ei wneud.

The people of deprived areas in Wales know that only a Labour administration has delivered, and will continue to deliver, the improvements that they demand in their education, their health and in their day-to-day lives. Communities First is a welcome step, and I am sure that it is only the beginning of a period in which many communities will rise like the proverbial phoenix to a better and more prosperous future.

Gŵyr pobl yr ardaloedd difreintiedig yng Nghymru mai dim ond gweinyddiaeth Lafur sydd wedi cyflwyno, ac a fydd yn dal i gyflwyno, y gwelliannau a fynnant yn eu haddysg, eu hiechyd a’u bywydau o ddydd i ddydd. Mae Cymunedau’n Gyntaf yn gam i’w groesawu, ac yr wyf yn siŵr mai dim ond dechrau cyfnod ydyw pryd y bydd llawer o gymunedau’n codi fel y ffenics diarhebol i ddyfodol gwell a mwy llewyrchus.

Christine Chapman spoken in English p. 67

Christine Chapman siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 67

I will focus on one of the themes in the Communities First document, which is tackling low skills and poor educational attainment. I would like to look at the causes or symptoms of poor educational attainment and low skill levels. I will talk firstly about absenteeism and disaffection among our young people. It is clear that pupils will not learn if they are not attending school. Absence levels across Wales are still far too high. We know that disaffected pupils are at an increased risk of truanting or being excluded from schools and are subsequently more likely to become socially excluded. We must also address those households, which for generations—as Helen Mary Jones said—have been without good education, skills or jobs. The teenage parent with a history of family abuse is perhaps more likely to produce children who become disaffected and excluded in their turn. We must use Communities First to end this vicious cycle.

Canolbwyntiaf ar un o’r themâu yn y ddogfen Cymunedau’n Gyntaf, sef mynd i’r afael â sgiliau isel a chyrhaeddiad addysgol gwael. Hoffwn edrych ar achosion neu symptomau cyrhaeddiad addysgol gwael a lefelau sgiliau isel. Siaradaf yn gyntaf am driwantiaeth ac anniddigrwydd ymhlith ein pobl ifanc. Mae’n amlwg na wnaiff disgyblion ddysgu os nad ydynt yn mynychu’r ysgol. Mae lefelau absenoldeb ledled Cymru’n dal yn llawer rhy uchel. Gwyddom fod disgyblion anniddig mewn mwy o berygl o chwarae triwant neu gael eu gwahardd o’r ysgol a’u bod wedyn yn fwy tebygol o gael eu hallgáu’n gymdeithasol. Rhaid inni hefyd roi sylw i’r aelwydydd hynny a fu am genedlaethau—fel y dywedodd Helen Mary Jones—heb addysg dda, sgiliau na swyddi. Mae’r rhiant yn ei arddegau gyda hanes o gam-drin yn y teulu efallai’n fwy tebygol o gynhyrchu plant a fydd yn eu tro’n anniddigo ac yn teimlo allgaead. Rhaid inni ddefnyddio’r cynllun Cymunedau’n Gyntaf i dorri’r cylch dieflig hwn.

I will touch briefly on three further aspects that affect educational attainment. The three aspects are poverty, parental attitude and gender differences. We know that poverty affects attainment in many ways. Many children do not eat a healthy diet, which impinges on concentration levels. Many children live in damp and poorly heated homes and do not have a learning atmosphere at home. Parental attitudes are also important. Parents or carers who read, talk and learn with their children have a more positive impact on attainment than those who ignore them. Parents who did not succeed in school and who may have had negative experiences of school might welcome the opportunities to learn and re-skill so that they can contribute to their children’s development. That is why our lifelong learning agenda is so important.

Cyffyrddaf yn fyr ar dair agwedd bellach sydd yn effeithio ar gyrhaeddiad addysgol, sef tlodi, agwedd y rhieni a gwahaniaethau rhwng y ddau ryw. Gwyddom fod tlodi’n effeithio ar gyrhaeddiad mewn sawl ffordd. Mae llawer o blant nad ydynt yn bwyta’n iach, sydd yn amharu ar lefelau canolbwyntio. Mae llawer o blant yn byw mewn cartrefi llaith ac oer a heb awyrgylch o ddysgu yn y cartref. Mae agweddau’r rhieni’n bwysig hefyd. Caiff rhieni neu ofalwyr sydd yn darllen, siarad a dysgu gyda’u plant effaith fwy cadarnhaol ar gyrhaeddiad na’r rheini sydd yn eu hanwybyddu. Gallai rhieni na lwyddodd yn yr ysgol ac a gafodd brofiadau negyddol o’r ysgol efallai groesawu’r cyfle i ddysgu ac ailsgilio er mwyn gallu cyfrannu at ddatblygiad eu plentyn. Dyna pam y mae’n hagenda dysgu gydol oes mor bwysig.

I now move on to gender differences. One challenge that we face is underachievement by boys. I welcome that the Government of Wales is taking this issue seriously. In south Wales, the industrial heritage that we bear often meant that generations of boys left school with few qualifications and went to work in the traditional heavy industries. The changes in the job market possibly present boys with a shift in aspirations, a lack of positive role models and a sense of little light at the end of the educational tunnel. Maybe that is one reason why boys tend to underperform at school. I will also mention the girls because this is vital. Another issue that emerges is why the attainment of girls—we know that they are doing very well—does not translate into the employment market. That is another form of social exclusion. That debate is for another day, possibly.

Trof yn awr at wahaniaethau rhwng y ddau ryw. Un her a wynebwn yw tangyflawni ymhlith bechgyn. Croesawaf y ffaith fod Llywodraeth Cymru’n cymryd hyn o ddifri. Yn y de, golygodd ein hetifeddiaeth ddiwydiannol yn aml fod cenedlaethau o fechgyn yn gadael yr ysgol heb fawr ddim cymwysterau ac yn mynd i weithio yn y diwydiannau trwm traddodiadol. Mae’r newidiadau yn y farchnad swyddi o bosibl yn symud dyheadau bechgyn, yn golygu bod diffyg modelau rôl cadarnhaol a theimlad nad oes fawr o olau ym mhen draw’r twnel addysgol. Efallai mai dyna un rheswm pam y mae bechgyn yn tueddu i dangyflawni yn yr ysgol. Soniaf am y merched hefyd gan fod hyn yn allweddol. Mater arall sydd yn codi yw pam nad yw cyrhaeddiad merched—gwyddom eu bod yn gwneud yn dda iawn—yn trosglwyddo i’r farchnad waith. Mae hynny’n ffurf arall ar allgáu cymdeithasol. Dadl i ddiwrnod arall yw honno o bosibl.

The way forward must be to take on Communities First and work in a cross-cutting way. The challenge is not only to raise the educational attainment of children in Wales on average but to raise the attainment of the poorest and most vulnerable children in our society. To achieve this, we need the greatest element of inter-agency working and partnership. We must ensure that all agencies are involved in Communities First. They must leave any vested interests at the door. Regeneration and the elimination of exclusion is the key. We cannot isolate any of the factors that I have already mentioned. As several of us have said, empowering communities is about helping those communities reach inclusion rather than exclusion. We must aim to achieve that in all sectors: from school to work to home life. The Labour Government in Wales is making a difference by taking this lead and putting these plans into action.

Fel ffordd ymlaen rhaid inni ymgymryd â Cymunedau’n Gyntaf a gweithio’n drawsbynciol. Yr her yw nid yn unig codi cyrhaeddiad addysgol plant yng Nghymru ar gyfartaledd ond hefyd godi cyrhaeddiad y plant tlotaf a mwyaf bregus yn ein cymdeithas. I gyflawni hyn, mae angen yr elfen fwyaf o bartneriaeth a gweithio cyd-asiantaethol. Rhaid inni sicrhau bod pob asiantaeth yn ymwneud â Cymunedau’n Gyntaf. Rhaid iddynt adael unrhyw fuddiannau eraill wrth y drws. Adfywio a dileu allgaead yw’r allwedd. Ni allwn ynysu unrhyw un o’r ffactorau y soniais amdanynt yn barod. Fel y dywedodd sawl un ohonom, amcan grymuso cymunedau yw helpu’r cymunedau hynny i gyrraedd sefyllfa lle y maent wedi’u cynnwys yn hytrach na’u hallgáu. Rhaid inni anelu at gyflawni hynny ym mhob sector: o’r ysgol i’r gwaith i fywyd y cartref. Mae’r Llywodraeth Lafur yng Nghymru’n gwneud gwahaniaeth drwy roi’r arweiniad hwn a rhoi’r cynlluniau hyn ar waith.

Jane Hutt The Secretary for Health and Social Services spoken in English p. 69

Jane Hutt Yr Ysgrifennydd Iechyd a Gwasanaethau Cymdeithasol siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 69

This has been an interesting debate. It went up and down in terms of being constructive. I hope that those who watched and listened to us felt that we did justice to this important discussion. When we discussed Communities First with the voluntary sector at the partnership council, there was widespread relief at, and endorsement for, the Government of Wales bringing this approach forward. At long last, we are addressing issues that we have been campaigning about for a year. Hundreds of people from the voluntary sector turned up at those consultation events because they felt that at long last the Government and the Assembly were listening. They saw the opportunity.

Bu hon yn ddadl ddiddorol. Aeth i fyny ac i lawr yn nhermau bod yn adeiladol. Gobeithiaf fod y rheini a fu’n edrych ac yn gwrando arnom yn teimlo ein bod wedi gwneud cyfiawnder â’r drafodaeth bwysig hon. Pan drafodasom Cymunedau’n Gyntaf gyda’r sector gwirfoddol yn y cyngor partneriaeth, yr oedd cryn ryddhad, a chymeradwyaeth i Lywodraeth Cymru, am gyflwyno’r dull gweithio hwn. O’r diwedd, yr ydym yn rhoi sylw i faterion y buom yn ymgyrchu yn eu cylch ers blwyddyn. Daeth cannoedd o bobl o’r sector gwirfoddol i’r cyfarfodydd ymgynghori hyn am eu bod yn teimlo bod y Llywodraeth a’r Cynulliad yn gwrando o’r diwedd. Gwelsant y cyfle.

I was disappointed at times during this debate. I was tempted to say—as Ann remarked—that the principles from the discussion on the voluntary sector seemed to get lost when we came to Communities First. I was disappointed by your contradictory response, Janet. At one point you agreed that we are going in the right direction, but you still wanted to make party political points to undermine this inclusive process. We support your amendments 1 and 2, Janet. We also support Peter Black’s amendment 4. The people out there who are watching this debate want to see the Assembly taking this seriously. Helen Mary came through strongly, explaining the issues about community development, community work and long-term sustainability. This is not about short-termism. Let us go forward together on this.

Cefais fy siomi ar brydiau yn ystod y ddadl hon. Cefais fy nhemtio i ddweud—fel y nododd Ann—fod yr egwyddorion o’r drafodaeth ar y sector gwirfoddol fel petaent wedi mynd ar goll pan ddaethom at fater Cymunedau’n Gyntaf. Fe’m siomwyd gan eich ymateb anghyson, Janet. Ar un pwynt cytunasoch ein bod yn symud i’r cyfeiriad iawn, ond yr oeddech yn dal i fynnu gwneud pwyntiau gwleidyddol pleidiol i danseilio’r broses gynhwysol hon. Cefnogwn eich gwelliannau 1 a 2, Janet. Cefnogwn hefyd welliant 4 Peter Black. Mae’r bobl sydd yn gwylio’r ddadl hon eisiau gweld y Cynulliad yn ei chymryd o ddifrif. Daeth Helen Mary drwodd yn gryf, gan egluro’r materion am ddatblygu cymunedol, gwaith cymunedol a chynaliadwyedd tymor hir. Nid peth tymor byr yw hwn. Gadewch inni fynd ymlaen gyda’n gilydd ar hyn.

I congratulate Dai Lloyd and Geraint Davies for discussing what we can learn from health action zones in the Health and Social Services Committee during our Communities First discussion. We must learn what works and we must learn from the People in Communities scheme and from health action zones. Let us imbed the best of that into Communities First and not score cheap party political points.

Llongyfarchaf Dai Lloyd a Geraint Davies am drafod yr hyn y gallwn ei ddysgu oddi wrth barthau gweithredu iechyd yn y Pwyllgor Iechyd a Gwasanaethau Cymdeithasol yn ystod ein trafodaeth ar Cymunedau’n Gyntaf. Rhaid inni ddysgu beth sydd yn gweithio a rhaid inni ddysgu oddi wrth y cynllun Cymunedau’n Gyntaf ac oddi wrth barthau gweithredu iechyd. Gadewch inni blannu’r gorau o hynny i mewn i’r cynllun Cymunedau’n Gyntaf a pheidio â sgorio pwyntiau gwleidyddol tsiep.

Val Feld spoken in English p. 70

Val Feld siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 70

I am intervening because I have been passed over by the Llywydd today.

Yr wyf yn ymyrryd am fy mod wedi fy anwybyddu gan y Llywydd heddiw.

Dafydd Elis-Thomas The Presiding Officer spoken in English p. 70

Dafydd Elis-Thomas Y Llywydd siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 70

Order. You have not been passed over. I received a request from you to speak at 12.45 p.m. today. There are a large number of speakers. I continually try to ensure balance. You, as Chair of a Committee, have been called on several occasions.

Trefn. Nid ydych wedi’ch anwybyddu. Cefais gais gennych am gael siarad am 12.45 p.m. heddiw. Mae nifer fawr o siaradwyr. Byddaf o hyd yn ceisio sicrhau cydbwysedd. Cawsoch chi, fel Cadeirydd Pwyllgor, eich galw ar sawl achlysur.

Val Feld spoken in English p. 70

Val Feld siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 70

I apologise for upsetting you—it was a joke.

Ymddiheuraf am eich tramgwyddo—gwamalu oeddwn i.

Dafydd Elis-Thomas The Presiding Officer spoken in English p. 70

Dafydd Elis-Thomas Y Llywydd siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 70

It did not upset me at all. We must ensure ways of operating that allow for party balance, regional representation and equality for all Members. It is a difficult job, which the Deputy Presiding Officer and myself try to undertake.

Ni wnaethoch fy nhramgwyddo o gwbl. Rhaid inni sicrhau ffyrdd o weithredu sydd yn caniatáu ar gyfer cydbwysedd pleidiau, cynrychiolaeth ranbarthol a chydraddoldeb i bob Aelod. Mae’n waith anodd, y ceisia’r Dirprwy Lywydd a mi ei gyflawni.

Val Feld spoken in English p. 70

Val Feld siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 70

I appreciate that this is a difficult job that you do with great grace, and I am sorry to have ruffled your feathers.

Deallaf ei fod yn waith anodd a wneir gennych yn raslon iawn, ac mae’n ddrwg gennyf am godi’ch gwrychyn.

Dafydd Elis-Thomas The Presiding Officer spoken in English p. 70

Dafydd Elis-Thomas Y Llywydd siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 70

That sounds even worse.

Mae hynny’n swnio’n waeth fyth.

Val Feld spoken in English p. 70

Val Feld siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 70

Jane, can you give some assurance—you talk about building on experience—to the people involved in the existing People in Communities programme. Many of these people have been working over the last couple of years to develop their plans and to involve their communities. They have some concerns that the momentum around their work may be lost as the new bigger, broader programme develops, and that they may find themselves—they are from the poorest communities with the most entrenched problems—having to compete in a much bigger scenario for a pot of money that is not necessarily so big. What assurances can you give them about their future and the sustainability of their work?

Jane, a allwch chi roi sicrwydd—soniwch am adeiladu ar brofiad—i’r bobl sydd yn ymwneud â’r rhaglen bresennol Pobl mewn Cymunedau. Mae llawer o’r bobl hyn wedi bod yn gweithio dros yr ychydig flynyddoedd diwethaf i ddatblygu’u cynlluniau a chynnwys eu cymunedau. Mae ganddynt rywfaint o bryder y gellir colli’r momentwm o gwmpas eu gwaith wrth i’r rhaglen newydd, fwy, ehangach ddatblygu, ac y gallant eu cael eu hunain—maent o’r cymunedau tlotaf gyda’r problemau sydd wedi gwreiddio ddyfnaf—yn gorfod cystadlu mewn maes llawer mwy am bot o arian nad yw o reidrwydd mor fawr. Pa sicrwydd allwch chi ei roi iddynt hwy am eu dyfodol a chynaliadwyedd eu gwaith?

Jane Hutt spoken in English p. 71

Jane Hutt siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 71

We have a lot to learn from People in Communities and the pioneering work that is being done there as in many other community development projects in Wales, which are raising similar concerns. We must ensure that we build on and look to sustainability for those projects as well as addressing the needs of the most disadvantaged communities across all policy areas, which we will be doing through Communities First.

Mae gennym lawer i’w ddysgu oddi wrth Pobl mewn Cymunedau a’r gwaith arloesol a wneir yno ac mewn sawl prosiect datblygu cymunedol arall yng Nghymru, sydd yn lleisio pryderon tebyg. Rhaid inni sicrhau ein bod yn adeiladu ar y prosiectau hynny ac yn anelu at gynaliadwyedd iddynt yn ogystal â rhoi sylw i anghenion y cymunedau mwyaf difreintiedig ar draws pob maes polisi, sef yr hyn y byddwn yn ei wneud drwy raglen Cymunedau’n Gyntaf.

I will mention why we are debating this today and explain about the consultation. It is about starting at the beginning. Pauline helpfully talked about, and clarified with Peter, the issue about the concept—moving on to developing the programme. The second stage of consultation will start in August and go through to October. It will enable us to build on what was brought back from our consultations. This debate will also feed into that. I am conscious that a few weeks ago we had a debate where there was some disagreement about time-lag for consultation over the summer. I think that you know what I am talking about in relation to housing. We must ensure that we get people in at the first point of call and that this debate contributes towards it. Mick talked about community participation in the voluntary scheme debate. It is about starting at the beginning. It is not about us finding a solution and then telling everybody to like it or lump it. Governments have done that in the past and it has not worked. It is about—

Soniaf pam yr ydym yn trafod hyn heddiw ac egluraf am yr ymgynghori. Mater o ddechrau yn y dechrau ydyw. Siaradodd Pauline yn fuddiol, a chafodd eglurhad gan Peter, am fater y cysyniad—symud ymlaen i ddatblygu’r rhaglen. Bydd ail gam y cysyniad yn dechrau ym mis Awst ac yn mynd drwodd i fis Hydref. Bydd yn ein galluogi i adeiladu ar yr hyn a ddaw yn ôl o’n hymgyngoriadau. Bydd y ddadl hon yn bwydo i mewn i hynny hefyd. Yr wyf yn ymwybodol y cawsom ddadl ychydig wythnosau’n ôl lle’r oedd peth anghytundeb ynghylch oedi ar gyfer ymgynghori dros yr haf. Mae’n debyg eich bod yn gwybod beth sydd gennyf dan sylw, yng nghyswllt tai. Rhaid inni sicrhau ein bod yn tynnu pobl i mewn ar y cam cyntaf a bod y ddadl hon yn cyfrannu at hynny. Soniodd Mick am gyfranogiad y gymuned yn nadl y cynllun gwirfoddol. Mater o ddechrau yn y dechrau ydyw. Nid mater ein bod ni’n canfod ateb ac wedyn yn dweud wrth bawb am ei hoffi neu fynd hebddo. Mae Llywodraethau wedi gwneud hynny yn y gorffennol ac nid yw wedi gweithio. Mater—

Dafydd Elis-Thomas The Presiding Officer spoken in English p. 72

Dafydd Elis-Thomas Y Llywydd siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 72

Jane, will you wind up?

Jane, a wnewch chi ddirwyn i ben?

Jane Hutt spoken in English p. 72

Jane Hutt siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 72

Yes, I just want to mention the radical and courageous way in which we can consider targeting jobs, education, housing and health. We must look radically at our programmes and bring together what we have learnt from promoting health wellbeing and from the projects that are developing through the European programme.

Gwnaf, dim ond imi gael crybwyll y ffordd radical a dewr y gallwn ystyried targedu swyddi, addysg, tai a iechyd. Rhaid inni edrych yn radicalaidd ar ein rhaglenni a chasglu ynghyd yr hyn a ddysgasom o hybu iechyd da ac o’r prosiectau sydd yn datblygu drwy’r rhaglen Ewropeaidd.

A year ago, we mapped social exclusion in Wales. It was a horrendous catalogue of health and educational experience inequalities, and poverty in our communities. Communities First is about tackling that. It is the glue to make Better Wales work. Without Communities First, ‘A Better Wales’ will remain a divided list of objectives for different Assembly policy areas. Communities First will drive it all together to tackle poverty and inequality in Wales.

Flwyddyn yn ôl, aethom ati i fapio allgáu cymdeithasol yng Nghymru. Yr oedd yn gatalog brawychus o anghydraddoldebau iechyd a phrofiad addysgol, a thlodi yn ein cymunedau. Mynd i’r afael â hynny yw nod Cymunedau’n Gyntaf. Dyma’r glud i wneud i Gwell Cymru weithio. Heb Cymunedau’n Gyntaf, bydd ‘Gwell Cymru’ yn aros yn rhestr ranedig o amcanion ar gyfer gwahanol feysydd polisi’r Cynulliad. Bydd Cymunedau’n Gyntaf yn ei yrru i gyd gyda’i gilydd i fynd i’r afael â thlodi ac anghydraddoldeb yng Nghymru.

Gwelliant 1 Janet Ryder t. 72

Amendment 1 Janet Ryder p. 72

DerbyniwydAdopted O blaidFor 47 YmatalAbstain 0 Yn erbynAgainst 0

Derbyniwyd y gwelliant.

Amendment adopted.

Sut y pleidleisiodd yr AelodauHow Members voted
O blaidFor (47)
  • Lorraine Barrett
  • Mick Bates
  • Peter Black
  • Nick Bourne
  • Rosemary Butler
  • Christine Chapman
  • Andrew Davies
  • David Davies
  • Geraint Davies
  • Glyn Davies
  • Janet Davies
  • Jocelyn Davies
  • Richard Edwards
  • Sue Essex
  • Delyth Evans
  • Val Feld
  • Michael German
  • Brian Gibbons
  • William Graham
  • Janice Gregory
  • Christine Gwyther
  • Alison Halford
  • Brian Hancock
  • Jane Hutt
  • Ann Jones
  • Carwyn Jones
  • Elin Jones
  • Gareth Jones
  • Helen Mary Jones
  • Ieuan Wyn Jones
  • Peter Law
  • Huw Lewis
  • David Lloyd
  • John Marek
  • David Melding
  • Tom Middlehurst
  • Jonathan Morgan
  • Lynne Neagle
  • Alun Pugh
  • Jenny Randerson
  • Peter Rogers
  • Janet Ryder
  • Gwenda Thomas
  • Owen John Thomas
  • Rhodri Glyn Thomas
  • Kirsty Williams
  • Phil Williams

Gwelliant 2 Janet Ryder t. 73

Amendment 2 Janet Ryder p. 73

DerbyniwydAdopted O blaidFor 45 YmatalAbstain 0 Yn erbynAgainst 1

Derbyniwyd y gwelliant.

Amendment adopted.

Sut y pleidleisiodd yr AelodauHow Members voted
O blaidFor (45)
  • Lorraine Barrett
  • Mick Bates
  • Peter Black
  • Nick Bourne
  • Rosemary Butler
  • Christine Chapman
  • David Davies
  • Geraint Davies
  • Glyn Davies
  • Janet Davies
  • Jocelyn Davies
  • Richard Edwards
  • Delyth Evans
  • Val Feld
  • Michael German
  • Brian Gibbons
  • William Graham
  • Janice Gregory
  • Christine Gwyther
  • Alison Halford
  • Brian Hancock
  • Jane Hutt
  • Ann Jones
  • Carwyn Jones
  • Elin Jones
  • Gareth Jones
  • Helen Mary Jones
  • Ieuan Wyn Jones
  • Peter Law
  • Huw Lewis
  • David Lloyd
  • John Marek
  • David Melding
  • Tom Middlehurst
  • Jonathan Morgan
  • Lynne Neagle
  • Alun Pugh
  • Jenny Randerson
  • Peter Rogers
  • Janet Ryder
  • Gwenda Thomas
  • Owen John Thomas
  • Rhodri Glyn Thomas
  • Kirsty Williams
  • Phil Williams
Yn erbynAgainst (1)
  • Sue Essex

Gwelliant 3 David Davies t. 74

Amendment 3 David Davies p. 74

DerbyniwydAdopted O blaidFor 25 YmatalAbstain 0 Yn erbynAgainst 23

Derbyniwyd y gwelliant.

Amendment adopted.

Sut y pleidleisiodd yr AelodauHow Members voted
O blaidFor (25)
  • Mick Bates
  • Peter Black
  • Nick Bourne
  • David Davies
  • Geraint Davies
  • Glyn Davies
  • Janet Davies
  • Jocelyn Davies
  • Michael German
  • William Graham
  • Brian Hancock
  • Elin Jones
  • Gareth Jones
  • Helen Mary Jones
  • Ieuan Wyn Jones
  • David Lloyd
  • David Melding
  • Jonathan Morgan
  • Jenny Randerson
  • Peter Rogers
  • Janet Ryder
  • Owen John Thomas
  • Rhodri Glyn Thomas
  • Kirsty Williams
  • Phil Williams
Yn erbynAgainst (23)
  • Lorraine Barrett
  • Rosemary Butler
  • Christine Chapman
  • Andrew Davies
  • Richard Edwards
  • Sue Essex
  • Delyth Evans
  • Val Feld
  • Brian Gibbons
  • Janice Gregory
  • Christine Gwyther
  • Alison Halford
  • Jane Hutt
  • Ann Jones
  • Carwyn Jones
  • Peter Law
  • Huw Lewis
  • John Marek
  • Tom Middlehurst
  • Rhodri Morgan
  • Lynne Neagle
  • Alun Pugh
  • Gwenda Thomas

Gwelliant 4 Peter Black t. 74

Amendment 4 Peter Black p. 74

DerbyniwydAdopted O blaidFor 42 YmatalAbstain 0 Yn erbynAgainst 7

Derbyniwyd y gwelliant .

Amendment adopted.

Sut y pleidleisiodd yr AelodauHow Members voted
O blaidFor (42)
  • Lorraine Barrett
  • Mick Bates
  • Peter Black
  • Rosemary Butler
  • Christine Chapman
  • Andrew Davies
  • Geraint Davies
  • Janet Davies
  • Jocelyn Davies
  • Richard Edwards
  • Sue Essex
  • Delyth Evans
  • Val Feld
  • Michael German
  • Brian Gibbons
  • Janice Gregory
  • John Griffiths
  • Christine Gwyther
  • Alison Halford
  • Brian Hancock
  • Jane Hutt
  • Ann Jones
  • Carwyn Jones
  • Elin Jones
  • Gareth Jones
  • Helen Mary Jones
  • Ieuan Wyn Jones
  • Peter Law
  • Huw Lewis
  • David Lloyd
  • John Marek
  • Tom Middlehurst
  • Rhodri Morgan
  • Lynne Neagle
  • Alun Pugh
  • Jenny Randerson
  • Janet Ryder
  • Gwenda Thomas
  • Owen John Thomas
  • Rhodri Glyn Thomas
  • Kirsty Williams
  • Phil Williams
Yn erbynAgainst (7)
  • Nick Bourne
  • David Davies
  • Glyn Davies
  • William Graham
  • David Melding
  • Jonathan Morgan
  • Peter Rogers

DerbyniwydAdopted O blaidFor 49 YmatalAbstain 0 Yn erbynAgainst 0

Derbyniwyd y cynnig wedi’i ddiwygio.

Amended motion adopted.

Sut y pleidleisiodd yr AelodauHow Members voted
O blaidFor (49)
  • Lorraine Barrett
  • Mick Bates
  • Peter Black
  • Nick Bourne
  • Rosemary Butler
  • Christine Chapman
  • Andrew Davies
  • David Davies
  • Geraint Davies
  • Glyn Davies
  • Janet Davies
  • Jocelyn Davies
  • Richard Edwards
  • Sue Essex
  • Delyth Evans
  • Val Feld
  • Michael German
  • Brian Gibbons
  • William Graham
  • Janice Gregory
  • John Griffiths
  • Christine Gwyther
  • Alison Halford
  • Brian Hancock
  • Jane Hutt
  • Ann Jones
  • Carwyn Jones
  • Elin Jones
  • Gareth Jones
  • Helen Mary Jones
  • Ieuan Wyn Jones
  • Peter Law
  • Huw Lewis
  • David Lloyd
  • John Marek
  • David Melding
  • Tom Middlehurst
  • Jonathan Morgan
  • Rhodri Morgan
  • Lynne Neagle
  • Alun Pugh
  • Jenny Randerson
  • Peter Rogers
  • Janet Ryder
  • Gwenda Thomas
  • Owen John Thomas
  • Rhodri Glyn Thomas
  • Kirsty Williams
  • Phil Williams

Adroddiad y Pwyllgor Addysg Cyn 16 Oed, Ysgolion ac Addysg Gynnar

Report of the Pre-16 Education, Schools and Early Learning Committee

Dafydd Elis-Thomas Y Llywydd siaradwyd yn Gymraeg t. 78

Dafydd Elis-Thomas The Presiding Officer spoken in Welsh p. 78

Yr wyf wedi dethol gwelliannau 1, 2 a 3 yn enw Gareth Jones.

I have selected amendments 1, 2 and 3 in the name of Gareth Jones.

William Graham spoken in English p. 78

William Graham siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 78

I propose that

Cynigiaf fod

William Graham (continued) spoken in English p. 78

William Graham (parhad) siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 78

This has been a busy inaugural session for the Committee, during which it has dealt with a broad range of subject matters. It has established a role for itself in policy review and development, where it has demonstrated an ability to be forward thinking, innovative, constructive and realistic. In undertaking its responsibilities, the Committee is involved in reviewing and developing policies that give a distinctive Welsh identity to education.

Bu hon yn sesiwn gychwynnol brysur i’r Pwyllgor, pryd y deliodd ag amrediad eang o bynciau. Sefydlodd rôl iddo’i hun mewn adolygu a datblygu polisi, lle dangosodd allu i fod yn flaengar, arloesol, adeiladol a realistig. Wrth ymgymryd â’i gyfrifoldebau, mae’r Pwyllgor yn ymwneud ag adolygu a datblygu polisïau sydd yn rhoi hunaniaeth arbennig Gymreig i addysg.

The Pre-16 Education, Schools and Early Learning Committee’s full title provides an indication of the range of its responsibilities, which mirror those of Rosemary Butler as the Secretary for Education and Children. The Committee’s interests cover the full range of education provision up to the age of 16 and the curriculum for those over the age of 16 who remain in school.

Mae teitl llawn y Pwyllgor Addysg Cyn 16 Oed, Ysgolion ac Addysg Gynnar yn rhoi syniad o rychwant ei gyfrifoldebau, sydd yn adlewyrchu cyfrifoldebau Rosemary Butler fel Ysgrifennydd Addysg a Phlant. Mae diddordebau’r Pwyllgor yn cynnwys holl amrediad y ddarpariaeth addysg hyd at 16 oed a’r cwricwlwm i rai dros 16 oed sydd yn aros yn yr ysgol.

During the year, we have met many of the several organisations involved in the delivery of education to hear their concerns and plans for Welsh education. It has been an enlightening experience for the Committee and I hope that our partners have found it helpful and constructive. We have been impressed by the commitment and dedication of the people involved in educating our children and by their professionalism.

Yn ystod y flwyddyn, yr ydym wedi cyfarfod â sawl un o’r cyrff niferus y mae a wnelont â darparu addysg er mwyn clywed eu pryderon a’u cynlluniau hwy ar gyfer addysg yng Nghymru. Bu’n brofiad addysgol i’r Pwyllgor a gobeithiaf fod ein partneriaid wedi ei gael yn fuddiol ac yn adeiladol. Da oedd gweld ymrwymiad, ymroddiad a phroffesiynoldeb y bobl sydd yn gyfrifol am addysgu’n plant.

In fulfilling its remit, the Committee seeks to contribute to the achievement of the aims and objectives set out in the National Assembly for Wales’s strategic plan, ‘Betterwales.com’. It deals with several cross-cutting issues, primarily with the Health and Social Services Committee, where education and childcare meet in respect of provision for pre-school children, looked-after children and children with special needs. The two Committees have worked closely on the issues of the Waterhouse report and the children’s commissioner. Responsibility for the education and training of young people in further education colleges, and other training provision for over 16 year-olds, falls to the Post-16 Education and Training Committee. The Post-16 and Pre-16 Committees need to work together to provide a continuum in the provision of educational opportunities for young people. An example of that working together is the joint consideration of those education and training action group proposals that affected sixth forms.

Wrth gyflawni ei gylch gwaith, ceisia’r Pwyllgor gyfrannu at gyflawni’r nod ac amcanion a amlinellir yng nghynllun strategol y Cynulliad Cenedlaethol, ‘Gwellcymru.com’. Mae’n delio â sawl mater trawsbynciol, a hynny’n bennaf gyda’r Pwyllgor Iechyd a Gwasanaethau Cymdeithasol, lle mae addysg a gofal plant yn cwrdd yng nghyd-destun y ddarpariaeth i blant cyn oed ysgol, plant y gofelir amdanynt a phlant ag anghenion arbennig. Mae’r ddau Bwyllgor wedi cydweithio’n agos ar faterion adroddiad Waterhouse a’r comisiynydd plant. Cyfrifoldeb y Pwyllgor Addysg a Hyfforddiant Ôl-16 yw addysg a hyfforddiant pobl ifanc mewn colegau addysg bellach, a darpariaethau hyfforddi eraill i rai dros 16 oed. Mae angen i’r Pwyllgorau Ôl-16 a Chyn-16 weithio gyda’i gilydd i ddarparu continwwm yn narpariaeth cyfleoedd addysgol i bobl ifanc. Enghraifft o’r cydweithio hwnnw yw’r ystyriaeth a roddwyd ar y cyd i gynigion y grŵp gweithredu addysg a hyfforddiant a effeithiai ar ddosbarthiadau chwech.

The Committee is keen to develop an open and participative style of working. All of its meetings have been held in public and it has invited many outside bodies to contribute to its discussions, for example the Welsh Local Government Association, ACCAC—the Qualifications, Curriculum and Assessment Authority—Estyn, Governors Wales, the teaching unions and business in the community. The chairs of other Committees have been invited to attend and participate in discussion on issues of common interest. We are grateful that Lorraine Barrett has represented the Committee’s interests in the discussions on the children’s commissioner that were held in Health and Social Services Committee meetings. We have also benefited from the membership of some of our members on other Committees such as Jonathan Morgan’s membership of the Post-16 Education and Training Committee, and Gareth Jones’s and Lorraine Barrett’s membership of the Committee on Equality of Opportunity.

Mae’r Pwyllgor yn awyddus i ddatblygu dull gweithio agored a chyfranogol. Cynhaliwyd ei gyfarfodydd i gyd yn gyhoeddus a gwahoddodd lawer o gyrff allanol i gyfrannu at ei drafodaethau, er enghraifft, Cymdeithas Llywodraeth Leol Cymru, Awdurdod Cymwysterau, Cwricwlwm ac Aseseu Cymru, Estyn, Llywodraethwyr Cymru, undebau’r athrawon a busnes yn y gymuned. Gwahoddwyd cadeiryddion Pwyllgorau eraill i fod yn bresennol a chyfrannu at y drafodaeth ar faterion o ddiddordeb cyffredin. Yr ydym yn ddiolchgar fod Lorraine Barrett wedi cynrychioli safbwynt y Pwyllgor yn y trafodaethau ar y comisiynydd plant a gynhaliwyd yng nghyfarfodydd y Pwyllgor Iechyd a Gwasanaethau Cymdeithasol. Yr ydym wedi elwa hefyd o aelodaeth rhai o’n haelodau ar Bwyllgorau eraill, megis aelodaeth Jonathan Morgan ar y Pwyllgor Addysg a Hyfforddiant Ôl-16, ac aelodaeth Gareth Jones a Lorraine Barrett ar y Pwyllgor Cyfle Cyfartal.

The full Committee has been on several visits to Techniquest and small groups representing the Committee have visited several schools covering the full range of education provision. The Committee views its visits to schools and education establishments as key to fulfilling its role, especially that of policy development. We have had several briefing sessions on issues related to education such as the private finance initiative, grants for education support and training, the Disability Rights Bill’s implications for schools and, we have had one briefing session from the Audit Commission.

Bu’r Pwyllgor llawn ar sawl ymweliad â Techniquest ac ymwelodd grwpiau bach ar ran y Pwyllgor â nifer o ysgolion yn cynrychioli amrediad llawn y ddarpariaeth addysgol. Ym marn y Pwyllgor mae ei ymweliadau ag ysgolion a sefydliadau addysgol yn allweddol i gyflawni’i rôl, yn enwedig o ran datblygu polisi. Cawsom amryw o sesiynau briffio ar faterion perthnasol i addysg fel y fenter cyllid preifat, grantiau cynnal addysg a hyfforddiant, goblygiadau’r Mesur Hawliau Anabledd i ysgolion, a chawsom un sesiwn briffio gan y Comisiwn Archwilio.

The Committee has occasionally expressed concern at the number of key issues that have come before it, which has resulted in curtailed debate of issues. This is particularly true of discussion of the ETAG proposals. However, the Committee knows that many issues are time constrained, and therefore, there is no alternative than to place them on the agenda for future debate. We know that it is a dilemma faced by all Committees; even the time allowed for this debate in Plenary is perhaps not what we might have desired. On occasions, the Committee has established a group of rapporteurs to consider a matter in depth outside the formal Committee meetings and to report with conclusions and recommendations to the full Committee. This approach was particularly useful in relation to consideration of the national curriculum review. Our agreed framework principles for education and policy in Wales aim to ensure that education is of a high quality for all, is inclusive and based on a partnership approach. Underpinning these principles is a commitment to equality of opportunity and sustainability. We also have regard for the National Assembly’s statutory schemes, relations with local authorities, the voluntary sector and the sustainable development scheme.

O dro i dro mynegodd y Pwyllgor bryder am y nifer o faterion allweddol a ddaeth ger ei fron, a achosodd inni orfod cwtogi dadleuon ar faterion. Mae hyn yn arbennig o wir am y drafodaeth ar gynigion y Grŵp Gweithredu Addysg a Hyfforddiant. Fodd bynnag, gŵyr y Pwyllgor fod cyfyngiad amser ar lawer o faterion, ac felly nid oes dewis ond eu rhoi ar yr agenda i’w trafod yn y dyfodol. Gwyddom fod hyn yn gyfyng gyngor a wynebir gan bob Pwyllgor; efallai nad yw hyd yn oed yr amser a ganiateir i’r ddadl hon yn y Cyfarfod Llawn yn gymaint ag y gallasem ei ddymuno. Ambell waith, mae’r Pwyllgor wedi sefydlu grŵp o adolygwyr i ystyried mater mewn dyfnder y tu allan i’r cyfarfodydd Pwyllgor ffurfiol a dod ag adroddiad gyda chasgliadau ac argymhellion i’r Pwyllgor llawn. Yr oedd y dull hwn yn arbennig o ddefnyddiol wrth ystyried yr adolygiad o’r cwricwlwm cenedlaethol. Mae’r egwyddorion fframwaith yr ydym wedi cytuno arnynt ar gyfer addysg a pholisi yng Nghymru yn anelu at sicrhau bod addysg o ansawdd uchel i bawb, ei bod yn gynhwysol ac yn seiliedig ar bartneriaeth. Yn waelodol i’r egwyddorion hyn mae ymrwymiad i gyfle cyfartal a chynaliadwyedd. Rhoddwn sylw hefyd i gynlluniau statudol y Cynulliad Cenedlaethol, y berthynas ag awdurdodau lleol, y sector gwirfoddol a’r cynllun datblygu cynaliadwy.

The Committee decided to spend a large proportion of its time developing policy on identifiable issues that will help to improve the provision of education in Wales to ensure that the potential of all children is realised, and that the status of Wales as a learning country is enhanced. It has commenced work on three reviews and determined several others that it wishes to consider during this Assembly term.

Penderfynodd y Pwyllgor dreulio rhan helaeth o’i amser yn datblygu polisi ar faterion y gellir eu nodi a fydd yn helpu i wella darpariaeth addysg yng Nghymru er mwyn sicrhau y gwireddir potensial pob plentyn, ac y cynyddir statws Cymru fel gwlad o ddysgu. Dechreuwyd gweithio ar dri adolygiad a phenderfynwyd ar sawl un arall y dymuna’r Pwyllgor eu hystyried yn ystod y tymor Cynulliad hwn.

In respect of early years provision for three-year-olds, the Committee presented its interim report to the Assembly on 4 April. Mrs Margaret Hanney, the Committee’s expert adviser on this matter, presented her final report to the Committee on 29 June. Having considered her proposals carefully, we agreed to invite all organisations that have previously contributed to the discussion to comment on the recommendations and we will consider these comments at a meeting in the autumn before finalising the report and formally submitting it to the Secretary for Education and Children. We have started a policy review looking at the procurement of information and communications technology for schools by local education authorities. However, as a result of the responses and presentations received by the Committee by a number of bodies, the Committee decided to widen its remit and look at ICT in education in Wales in the round. Huw Lewis and Jonathan Morgan have been asked by the Committee to take the lead in this. They have visited the Scottish Council for Information Technology, the British Educational Communication Technology Agency, and the Department of Education and Science in Ireland. The Committee has appointed Nia Harris as an expert adviser to assist with the technical aspects of these issues, in particular.

Yng nghyswllt darpariaeth blynyddoedd cynnar i blant teirblwydd, cyflwynodd y Pwyllgor ei adroddiad interim i’r Cynulliad ar 4 Ebrill. Cyflwynodd Mrs Margaret Hanney, cynghorydd arbenigol y Pwyllgor ar y mater hwn, ei hadroddiad terfynol i’r Pwyllgor ar 29 Mehefin. Wedi ystyried ei chynigion yn ofalus, cytunasom i wahodd pob corff a gyfrannodd cyn hyn i’r drafodaeth i roi sylwadau ar yr argymhellion ac fe ystyriwn y sylwadau hynny mewn cyfarfod yn yr hydref cyn llunio’r adroddiad terfynol a’i gyflwyno’n ffurfiol i’r Ysgrifennydd Addysg a Phlant. Yr ydym wedi cychwyn adolygiad polisi’n edrych ar y modd y mae awdurdodau addysg lleol yn caffael adnoddau technoleg gwybodaeth a chyfathrebu i ysgolion. Fodd bynnag, o ganlyniad i’r ymatebion a’r cyflwyniadau a roddwyd i’r Pwyllgor gan nifer o gyrff, penderfynodd y Pwyllgor ledu ei gylch gwaith ac edrych ar dechnoleg gwybodaeth a chyfathrebu mewn addysg yng Nghymru yn gyffredinol. Gofynnodd y Pwyllgor i Huw Lewis a Jonathan Morgan arwain ar hyn. Maent wedi ymweld â Chyngor Technoleg Gwybodaeth yr Alban, Asiantaeth Technoleg Cyfathrebu Addysgol Prydain, a’r Adran Addysg a Gwyddoniaeth yn Iwerddon. Mae’r Pwyllgor wedi penodi Nia Harris yn gynghorydd arbenigol i helpu gydag agweddau technegol y materion hyn, yn arbennig.

We are aware that there is a great deal of work taking place in ICT on the broader front. I undertake to keep the Chairs of the Economic Development Committee and the Post-16 Education and Training Committee fully cognisant of our progress. The Committee intends to work with many interests so that what is ultimately produced will be part of an holistic approach to ICT in Wales.

Yr ydym yn ymwybodol bod llawer iawn o waith yn digwydd mewn TGCh ar y lefel ehangach. Ymgymeraf i sicrhau bod Cadeiryddion y Pwyllgor Datblygu Economaidd a’r Pwyllgor Addysg a Hyfforddiant Ôl-16 yn cael gwybod yn llawn am ein gwaith. Bwriada’r Pwyllgor weithio gyda llawer o wahanol fuddiannau fel y bydd yr hyn a gynhyrchir ar ddiwedd y dydd yn rhan o ymagwedd holistaidd at dechnoleg gwybodaeth a chyfathrebu yng Nghymru.

The Committee has begun a third policy review, on the supply of school places. The consultation process is underway. Each local education authority and other key organisations in Wales have been invited to submit their views. Although the Committee has concentrated on the educational aspects, the matter has implications for a number of the National Assembly’s priorities, such as social inclusion and the strengthening of our communities.

Mae’r Pwyllgor wedi dechrau trydydd adolygiad polisi, ar gyflenwad lleoedd ysgol. Mae’r broses ymgynghori ar droed. Gwahoddwyd pob awdurdod addysg lleol a chyrff allweddol eraill yng Nghymru i gyflwyno’u sylwadau. Er mai ar agweddau addysgol y mae’r Pwyllgor wedi canolbwyntio, mae gan y mater oblygiadau i nifer o flaenoriaethau’r Cynulliad Cenedlaethol, fel cynhwysiant cymdeithasol a chryfhau’n cymunedau.

The Committee considered the Assembly’s draft budget and was concerned that the current state of disrepair of school buildings should be addressed as a priority. It expressed the view that issues of social exclusion, such as truancy and exclusion from schools, should also be given high priority.

Ystyriodd y Pwyllgor gyllideb drafft y Cynulliad ac yr oedd yn awyddus i gyflwr gwael presennol adeiladau ysgolion gael sylw fel blaenoriaeth. Mynegodd y farn y dylid rhoi blaenoriaeth uchel hefyd i faterion allgáu cymdeithasol, fel triwantiaeth a gwahardd o ysgolion.

The Committee is responsible for monitoring and scrutinising ACCAC. In order to discharge its responsibility, ACCAC attended the Committee to consider its corporate report. Although the Committee has no statutory responsibility over the schools inspectorate, Estyn, we have developed a good working relationship. The Committee is grateful for the support and advice of these two organisations and looks forward to working closely with them in the future.

Mae’r Pwyllgor yn gyfrifol am fonitro ac archwilio ACCAC. Er mwyn cyflawni’i gyfrifoldeb, mynychodd ACCAC y Pwyllgor i ystyried ei adroddiad corfforaethol. Er nad oes gan y Pwyllgor unrhyw gyfrifoldeb statudol dros yr arolygwyr ysgolion, Estyn, yr ydym wedi datblygu perthynas waith dda. Mae’r Pwyllgor yn ddiolchgar am gefnogaeth a chyngor y ddau gorff hyn ac yn edrych ymlaen at gydweithio’n agos â hwy yn y dyfodol.

I hope that the Committee members feel that I have done justice to the work that we have undertaken during the year. I look forward to hearing their views.

Gobeithio bod aelodau’r Pwyllgor yn teimlo fy mod wedi gwneud cyfiawnder â’r gwaith a wnaethom yn ystod y flwyddyn. Edrychaf ymlaen at glywed eu sylwadau.

On amendment 1, the Committee has undertaken a very broad range of issues as, the report describes. It would be inappropriate to single out one issue above any other in this motion. The Committee’s view on the issue of performance-related pay for teachers is already contained in the report. On amendment 2, the Committee received a presentation on the Welsh Baccalaureate from the Institute of Welsh Affairs on 1 March, which engendered a stimulating debate. The Assembly Secretary has already commissioned work on the way in which the concept of the Welsh Baccalaureate may be developed and aligned within the overall framework of qualifications. This report will be brought to the Committee as soon as it is available. I have given a commitment to Cynog Dafis that his Committee will be included in that discussion. Finally, on amendment 3, the Assembly Secretary reported to the Committee on this matter at our meeting of 12 April.

Ar welliant 1, mae’r Pwyllgor wedi ymgymryd ag amrediad eang iawn o faterion, fel y disgrifia’r adroddiad. Byddai’n amhriodol sôn am un mater uwchlaw unrhyw un arall yn y cynnig hwn. Mae barn y Pwyllgor ar dâl ar sail perfformiad i athrawon eisoes wedi’i chynnwys yn yr adroddiad. Ar welliant 2, cafodd y Pwyllgor gyflwyniad ar y Fagloriaeth Gymreig gan y Sefydliad Materion Cymreig ar ddydd Gŵyl Ddewi, a ysgogodd ddadl fywiog. Mae’r Ysgrifennydd Cynulliad eisoes wedi comisiynu gwaith ar y modd y gellir datblygu cysyniad y Fagloriaeth Gymreig a’i gosod o fewn y fframwaith cymwysterau cyffredinol. Deuir â’r adroddiad hwn i’r Pwyllgor cyn gynted ag y bydd ar gael. Yr wyf wedi rhoi ymrwymiad i Cynog Dafis y cynhwysir ei Bwyllgor ef yn y drafodaeth honno. Yn olaf, ar welliant 3, adroddodd yr Ysgrifennydd Cynulliad i’r Pwyllgor ar y mater hwn yn ein cyfarfod ar 12 Ebrill.

Gareth Jones siaradwyd yn Gymraeg t. 83

Gareth Jones spoken in Welsh p. 83

Cynigiaf welliant 1. Ychwaneger y cymalau canlynol ar ddiwedd y cynnig:

I propose amendment 1. Add the following clauses at the end of the motion:

Gareth Jones (parhad) siaradwyd yn Gymraeg t. 83

Gareth Jones (continued) spoken in Welsh p. 83

Cynigiaf hefyd welliant 2. Ychwaneger y cymal canlynol ar ddiwedd y cynnig:

I also propose amendment 2. Add the following clause at the end of the motion:

Gareth Jones (parhad) siaradwyd yn Gymraeg t. 83

Gareth Jones (continued) spoken in Welsh p. 83

Cynigiaf hefyd welliant 3. Ychwaneger y cymal canlynol ar ddiwedd y cynnig:

I also propose amendment 3. Add the following clause at the end of the motion:

Gareth Jones (parhad) siaradwyd yn Gymraeg t. 83

Gareth Jones (continued) spoken in Welsh p. 83

Croesawaf yr adroddiad fel crynodeb o weithgarwch a thrafodaethau’r Pwyllgor Addysg Cyn 16 Oed, Ysgolion ac Addysg Gynnar. Hoffwn hefyd dalu teyrnged i waith deheuig William Graham fel Cadeirydd y Pwyllgor, ac i’r modd diduedd y mae wedi’i gadeirio.

I welcome the report as a summary of the Pre-16 Education, Schools and Early Learning Committee’s activity and discussions. I would like to pay a tribute to the skilful work of William Graham as Chair of the Committee, and to the impartial way he has chaired it.

Datganaf ddiolch hefyd i’r Ysgrifennydd Addysg am y modd y bu bob amser yn agored i dderbyn syniadau ac yn barod i wrando’n amyneddgar ar awgrymiadau a chyfraniadau’r aelodau, er na fyddai bob amser o reidrwydd yn cytuno â phob un o awgrymiadau neu syniadau’r aelodau. Mae’r adroddiad yn dangos drwyddo draw y pwysau gwaith a ysgwyddir gan y Pwyllgor a’r Ysgrifennydd Addysg.

I declare my thanks also to the Education Secretary for the way she has always been receptive to ideas and ready to listen patiently to members’ suggestions and contributions, although she would not always necessarily agree with members’ every suggestion or idea. The report shows throughout the pressures of work borne by the Committee and the Education Secretary.

Yr wyf yn ategu’r diolch sydd yn yr adroddiad i’r swyddogion, dan arweinyddiaeth Richard Davies, am eu parodrwydd i ateb cwestiynau a chynnal ein trafodaethau. Diolch hefyd i’r Ysgrifenyddiaeth, y Clerc a’r Dirprwy Glerc am eu gwaith a’u gwasanaeth.

I reiterate the thanks given in the report to the officials, under the guidance of Richard Davies, for their readiness to answer questions and support our discussions. Thanks also to the Secretariat, the Clerk and the Deputy Clerk for their work and service.

Gan mai gofyn inni nodi’r adroddiad yn unig y mae’r cynnig, yr wyf yn falch o wneud hynny ar ran Plaid Cymru—The Party of Wales—ar yr amod bod y newidiadau a drafodwyd ac y cytunwyd arnynt yn ystod ein cyfarfod tua mis yn ôl yn cael eu cynnwys yn fersiwn derfynol y cofnod o’r ddadl hon. Cyfeiriodd William eisioes at y Pwyllgor Cyfle Cyfartal. Cymeraf y caiff y gwelliannau hynny eu cynnwys yn yr adroddiad terfynol. Ni thrafodaf y pwyntiau hynny y prynhawn yma, dim ond eu croesawu.

As we are only asked to note the contents of the report in this motion, I am pleased to do so on behalf of Plaid Cymru—The Party of Wales—on the condition that the changes which were discussed and agreed upon during our meeting about a month ago are included in the final record of this debate. William has already referred to the Committee on Equality of Opportunity. I take it that those amendments will be included in the final report. I will not discuss those points this afternoon; all I will do is welcome them.

Cymeradwyaf waith da y Pwyllgor i ddatblygu darpariaeth gynnar i blant tair oed. Mae’n deg cydnabod gwaith da a chyfraniad Margaret Hanney, ac ansawdd ei hadroddiad terfynol. Bydd ansawdd y polisi terfynol yn brawf ar barodrwydd Aelodau i fabwysiadu a mewnoli egwyddorion sylfaenol y Cynulliad Cenedlaethol.

I applaud the Committee’s good work in developing early provision for three-year olds. It is fair to recognise Margaret Hanney’s good work and contribution, and the quality of her final report. The quality of the final policy will be a test of Members’ willingness to adopt and internalise the basic principles of the National Assembly.

Mae’r Pwyllgor yn dechrau mynd i’r afael ag un o wendidau pennaf ein hysgolion, sef technoleg gwybodaeth. Mae’n drist cydnabod, pe bai cynghrair o berfformiad ysgolion mewn gwahanol wledydd, y byddai Cymru ymhell ar ei hôl hi.

The Committee has started to tackle one of our schools’ greatest weaknesses, namely information technology. It is sad to recognise that, if there was a league of the performance of schools in different countries, Wales would be far behind.

Mae trafodaethau a phenderfyniadau’r Pwyllgor ar y cwricwlwm cenedlaethol ar ei newydd wedd, ar adroddiad Waterhouse, ar y comisiynydd plant ac ar adroddiad y Grwp Gweithredu Addysg a Hyfforddiant yn ein hatgoffa o bwysigrwydd cylch gorchwyl ac agenda’r Pwyllgor.

The Committee’s discussions and decisions on the new-look national curriculum, the Waterhouse report, the children’s commissioner and on the Education and Training Action Group’s report remind us of the importance of the Committee’s remit and agenda.

Cyfeiriaf yn fyr at y gwelliannau. Cydnabyddaf eu bod ychydig yn amhoblogaidd, er na wn i pam. Efallai ein bod yn torri tir newydd. Mae’n amlwg o’r drafodaeth ddoe a’r pwyntiau a gododd Jonathan heddiw fod cyflwyno gwelliannau yn annisgwyl ac yn annerbyniol i rai. Cânt eu cyflwyno yn yr ysbryd o symud yr agenda addysgol ymlaen ac i’n hatgoffa bod gennym beth ffordd i fynd cyn cyrraedd rhai targedau pwysig. Rhestrir rhai o’r problemau difrifol hynny yn atodiad A yr adroddiad.

I will refer briefly to the amendments. I recognise that they are rather unpopular, although I do not know why. Perhaps we are breaking new ground. It is evident from yesterday’s discussion and the points raised by Jonathan today that proposing amendments is unexpected and unacceptable to some. They are proposed in the spirit of moving the educational agenda forward and to remind us that we have some way to go before reaching some important targets. Some of those serious problems are listed in annex A of the report.

Efallai fod gwahaniaeth barn rhyngom, ac mae rhyddid i bleidleisio fel y mynnwch mewn fforwm democrataidd fel y Cynulliad. Ond dylem gofio, cyn inni glodfori cyraeddiadau’r Pwyllgor yn ormodol, bod gan nifer ohonom amheuon ynghylch effeithiolrwydd y Pwyllgorau Pwnc a’u cyfraniad at y broses o greu polisi yn y Cynulliad. Mae rhwystredigaeth yn hynny o beth, credwch fi. Mae’n fater a drafodasom o’r blaen ac nid i’r Pwyllgor Addysg Cyn-16 yn unig y mae’n berthnasol.

There may be a difference of opinion between us, and there is freedom to vote as you wish in a democratic forum such as the Assembly. However, we should remember, before we give too much praise to the Assembly’s achievements, that many of us have doubts regarding the Subject Committees’ effectiveness and their contribution to the process of creating policy in the Assembly. There is frustration regarding that, believe me. It is a matter that we have previously discussed and it is relevant not only to the Pre-16 Education Committee.

Mae gwelliant 1 yn ymwneud nid yn unig ag effeithiolrwydd y Pwyllgor Pwnc ond â hygrededd, effeithiolrwydd a defnyddioldeb y Cynulliad. Gan fod yr adroddiad yn cyfeirio at reoli perfformiad, mae gwelliant 1 yn feirniadol o Lywodraeth Cymru am beidio â phrotestio llawer mwy ynghylch y modd y sathrwyd ac y diystyrwyd ewyllys democrataidd y Cynulliad a phobl Cymru. Gwnaethpwyd y penderfyniad yn y fan hon i wrthwynebu’r elfen allweddol o dâl ar sail perfformiad. Yr oedd yn gyfle gwych i’r Prif Ysgrifennydd a’r Llywodraeth wrthwynebu’n chwyrn yr hyn a oedd yn cael ei orfodi arnom. Collwyd cyfle euraid i ddiogelu buddiannau ein hathrawon ac ansawdd addysg ein hysgolion. Dyna pam y cyflwynais welliant 1.

Amendment 1 involves not only the effectiveness of the Subject Committee but also the Assembly’s credibility, effectiveness and usefulness. Since the report refers to performance management, amendment 1 is critical of the Government of Wales for not protesting much more about the way in which the democratic will of the Assembly and the people of Wales was spurned and disregarded. The decision was made here to oppose the key element of performance-related pay. It was a wonderful opportunity for the First Secretary and the Government to sternly oppose what was being forced upon us. A golden opportunity was lost to safeguard our teachers’ interests and the quality of education in our schools. That is why I proposed amendment 1.

Huw Lewis a gododd—

Huw Lewis rose—

Dafydd Elis-Thomas Y Llywydd siaradwyd yn Gymraeg t. 86

Dafydd Elis-Thomas The Presiding Officer spoken in Welsh p. 86

A ydych yn ildio i Huw Lewis? Dim ond munud sydd gennych ar ôl i siarad.

Are you giving way to Huw Lewis? You only have a minute left to speak.

Gareth Jones spoken in Welsh and English p. 86

Gareth Jones siaradwyd yn Gymraeg ac yn Saesneg t. 86

I am sorry, Huw. I only have one minute to speak.

yn Saesneg Mae’n ddrwg gennyf, Huw. Dim ond munud sydd gennyf i siarad.

Mae gwelliant 2 yn datgan siomedigaeth na chyfeiriwyd o gwbl at y Fagloriaeth Gymreig yn yr adroddiad. Derbyniaf yr hyn a ddywedodd Cadeirydd y Pwyllgor wrthym. Cefais sicrwydd ac yr wyf yn fodlon tynnu gwelliant 2 yn ôl.

in Welsh Amendment 2 states disappointment that no reference was made in the report to the Welsh Baccalaureate. I accept what the Committee Chair told us. I received an assurance and I am willing to withdraw amendment 2.

Mae gwelliant 3 yn berthnasol ac amserol. Dywed yr adroddiad y bydd y Pwyllgor yn ystyried materion recriwtio, sydd yn rhan o’i rôl. Mae datganiad diweddaraf yr Adran Addysg a Chyflogaeth ar ei benderfyniad ar dâl i raddedigion wedi ein gorfodi i newid ein cynlluniau recriwtio yng Nghymru. Mae’r llythyrau a’r cwynion yr ydych chi a minnau yn eu derbyn yn profi hynny ac yn datgan anniddigrwydd difrifol ymysg darpar athrawon a’n sefydliadau hyfforddi. Tra’r ydym—

in Welsh Amendment 3 is relevant and timely. The report states that the Committee will consider recruiting matters, which is part of its role. The Department for Education and Employment’s latest statement on its decision on payments for graduates has forced us to change our recruitment plans in Wales. The letters and complaints that you and I receive prove that and state a serious unease among prospective teachers and our training institutions. While we are—

Dafydd Elis-Thomas Y Llywydd siaradwyd yn Gymraeg t. 86

Dafydd Elis-Thomas The Presiding Officer spoken in Welsh p. 86

Gofynnaf ichi ddirwyn eich araith i ben.

I ask you to bring your speech to a close.

Gareth Jones siaradwyd yn Gymraeg t. 86

Gareth Jones spoken in Welsh p. 86

Gorffennaf ar y pwynt hwn. Soniaf am y gair ‘annibyniaeth’. Nid yw’n poeni dim arnaf fi i gyfeirio ato. Mae’r Adran Addysg a Chyflogaeth yn gorff annibynnol sydd yn dylanwadu ar ein polisïau yng Nghymru. Mae’n amser inni fagu ychydig o asgwrn cefn a dweud bod gennym ein corff annibynnol ein hunain yng Nghymru. Dylem sefyll yn gryf a dweud wrth yr Adran Addysg a Chyflogaeth, os yw o ddifrif am wella safonau addysg yn Lloegr ac yng Nghymru, rhaid iddi wrando ar y llais sydd gennym yng Nghymru. Mae angen annibyniaeth ar Gymru hefyd.

I will end on this point. I will mention the word ‘independence’. It does not worry me at all to refer to it. The Department for Education and Employment is an independent body that influences our policies in Wales. It is time for us to have some backbone and say that we have our own independent body in Wales. We must stand up to the Department for Education and Employment and tell it that, if it is serious about improving educational standards in England and in Wales, it must listen to the voice that we have in Wales. Wales needs independence too.

Jonathan Morgan spoken in English p. 86

Jonathan Morgan siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 86

I thank William Graham, who has chaired the Pre-16 Education, Schools and Early Learning Committee extremely well in the past year. As a member of his political party, I occasionally find his unbiased approach annoying. However, I thank him for the professional way in which the Committee has been chaired. I thank Rosemary Butler as the Secretary for Education and Children. Committees have to have a decent working relationship with the Assembly Secretary in order to work effectively. Rosemary is open and we have a transparent way of working. She is open about political processes and the sort of ideas and matters that we want to bring to Committee. I thank her for the way in which business has been conducted in the Committee. I also thank Delyth Thomas and Brian Duddridge for their work. We could not conduct Committee business without our Clerk and Deputy Clerk. Those of us who have worked in sub-groups or on individual reviews such as the information and communications technology review, which Huw Lewis and I are undertaking, understand the important role of our Clerk and Deputy Clerk. They are influential people within the Assembly. We see that across the board in all Subject Committees. The roles of the Clerk and Deputy Clerk are crucial. We should put on record our profound thanks for their considerable work over the past year.

Diolchaf i William Graham, sydd wedi cadeirio’r Pwyllgor Addysg Cyn-16, Ysgolion ac Addysg Gynnar yn eithriadol o dda yn y flwyddyn a aeth heibio. Fel aelod o’i blaid wleidyddol, weithiau mae ei agwedd ddiduedd yn mynd dan fy nghroen. Fodd bynnag, diolchaf iddo am y modd proffesiynol y cadeiriwyd y Pwyllgor. Diolch i Rosemary Butler fel Ysgrifennydd Addysg a Phlant. Rhaid i Bwyllgorau gael perthynas waith dda gyda’r Ysgrifennydd Cynulliad er mwyn gweithio’n effeithiol. Mae Rosemary’n agored ac mae gennym ffordd dryloyw o weithio. Mae hi’n agored ynghylch prosesau gwleidyddol a’r math o syniadau a materion yr ydym eisiau eu cyflwyno i’r Pwyllgor. Diolchaf iddi am y modd y cynhaliwyd busnes yn y Pwyllgor. Diolchaf hefyd i Delyth Thomas a Brian Duddridge am eu gwaith. Ni allem gynnal busnes y Pwyllgor heb ein Clerc a’n Dirprwy Glerc. Mae’r rheini ohonom a fu’n gweithio mewn is-grwpiau neu ar adolygiadau unigol fel yr adolygiad technoleg gwybodaeth a chyfathrebu, y mae Huw Lewis a mi’n ymgymryd ag ef, yn deall rôl bwysig ein Clerc a’n Dirprwy Glerc. Maent yn bobl ddylanwadol o fewn y Cynulliad. Gwelwn hynny ar draws y bwrdd ym mhob Pwyllgor Pwnc. Mae rôl y Clerc a’r Dirprwy Glerc yn allweddol. Dylem roi ar gof a chadw ein diolch diffuant iddynt am eu gwaith sylweddol yn ystod y flwyddyn ddiwethaf.

I will deal with the two amendments as they stand. My view, and therefore the view of my party—that was not a Freudian slip—is that these amendments should be dealt with separately. It is a shame that they have been proposed today as part of the report and that we have to deal with them in such a short time. We will vote against amendment 1 on performance-related pay and we will vote against amendment 2, as it stands, on payment. The reasons are as follows. In amendment 1 on performance-related pay, Gareth Jones wishes to condemn the Government of Wales’s failure to give effect to the views of the Committee. After receiving legal advice on performance-related pay, the Government of Wales did give effect to our views in so far as they were able to do so and in so far as we were able to offer our opinion within the remit for this particular area. No more could have been done. The legal advice bears testament to that.

Deliaf â’r ddau welliant fel y safant. Yn fy marn i, ac felly ym marn fy mhlaid—nid llithriad Freudaidd oedd hwnnw—dylid delio â’r gwelliannau hyn ar wahân. Mae’n bechod eu bod wedi’u cynnig heddiw fel rhan o’r adroddiad a bod yn rhaid inni ddelio â hwy mewn amser mor fyr. Pleidleisiwn yn erbyn gwelliant 1 ar dâl ar sail perfformiad a phleidleisiwn yn erbyn gwelliant 2, fel y mae’n sefyll, ar dâl. Mae’r rhesymau fel a ganlyn. Yng ngwelliant 1 ar dâl ar sail perfformiad, mae Gareth Jones yn dymuno condemnio methiant Llywodraeth Cymru i weithredu barn y Pwyllgor. Ar ôl cael cyngor cyfreithiol ar dâl ar sail perfformiad, fe weithredodd Llywodraeth Cymru ein barn cyn belled ag yr oedd yn abl i wneud hynny a chyn belled ag yr oeddem yn gallu cynnig ein barn o fewn y cylch gwaith ar gyfer y maes arbennig hwn. Ni allesid gwneud mwy. Mae’r cyngor cyfreithiol yn dyst i hynny.

On amendment 2 as it stands, the Department for Education and Employment failed to consult the Government of Wales. My understanding was that this related to a single item of the budget, which was additional in terms of the £4 million that we received this year. It was a decision by the Secretary, and ultimately by the Assembly, to spend that money on teacher recruitment. We must review that over time. We have to see if it works. If it works, I will be happy to expand it. The DfEE should not be deplored for failure to consult with the Government of Wales when the Government of Wales was responsible for making the decision. This was not a DfEE decision. Rosemary Butler and the Government of Wales needed to decide upon it themselves. On that basis and on the basis of the fact that we should not be discussing all of these items in considerable detail, we will vote against those two amendments as a matter of principle.

Ar welliant 2 fel y saif, methodd yr Adran Addysg a Chyflogaeth ag ymgynghori â Llywodraeth Cymru. Fy nealltwriaeth i oedd fod a wnelo hyn ag un eitem yn y gyllideb, a oedd yn ychwanegol yn nhermau’r £4 miliwn a gawsom eleni. Penderfyniad gan yr Ysgrifennydd, ac yn y pen draw gan y Cynulliad, oedd gwario’r arian hwnnw ar recriwtio athrawon. Rhaid inni adolygu hynny dros amser. Rhaid inni weld a ydyw’n gweithio. Os ydyw’n gweithio, byddaf yn hapus i’w ehangu. Ni ddylid gresynu at yr Adran Addysg a Chyflogaeth am fethu ymgynghori â Llywodraeth Cymru pan mai Llywodraeth Cymru a oedd yn gyfrifol am wneud y penderfyniad. Nid penderfyniad gan yr Adran Addysg a Chyflogaeth oedd hwn. Yr oedd angen i Rosemary Butler a Llywodraeth Cymru benderfynu arno eu hunain. Ar y sail honno ac ar sail y ffaith na ddylem fod yn trafod yr holl eitemau hyn mewn manylder sylweddol, pleidleisiwn yn erbyn y ddau welliant hynny fel mater o egwyddor.

The Committee has been largely successful in its work over the past year. First, there was considerable cross-party working support when we were considering the thorny issue of performance-related pay. It highlighted the way in which Committees would develop. Our party political differences were largely put to one side and we went on to work on a cross-party basis to come up with solutions that would be acceptable to everybody. This was how we worked, particularly in relation to the teaching unions. We agreed on something with the teaching unions, which was quite an achievement. We were able to sit down with them privately and talk through the issues and come to a level of agreement. Although there were fundamental disagreements over many issues relating to performance-related pay, the Committee should celebrate the way in which it dealt with this issue. This process highlighted the fact that Committees do not exist to work on their own. They exist to work with outside organisations. The way in which we conducted reviews and engaged teaching unions and others highlights the mature working method of Committees. It shows that Committees are the mechanism for Assembly work. The debating Chamber might be here for headlines and television coverage, but the Committees carry out the detailed examinations and work. We should celebrate that.

Bu’r Pwyllgor yn llwyddiannus i raddau helaeth yn ei waith dros y flwyddyn a aeth heibio. Yn gyntaf, cafwyd cryn gefnogaeth ar draws y pleidiau pan oeddem yn ystyried pwnc llosg tâl ar sail perfformiad. Amlygodd y ffordd y byddai Pwyllgorau’n datblygu. Rhoddwyd ein gwahaniaethau pleidiol o’r neilltu i raddau helaeth ac aethom ymlaen i weithio ar sail drawsbleidiol i lunio atebion a fyddai’n dderbyniol gan bawb. Dyma sut y gweithiasom, yn enwedig mewn perthynas ag undebau’r athrawon. Llwyddasom i gytuno ar rywbeth gydag undebau’r athrawon, a oedd yn dipyn o gamp. Yr oeddem yn gallu eistedd i lawr gyda hwy’n breifat a thrafod y materion a dod i ryw lefel o gytundeb. Er bod anghytundeb sylfaenol ar lawer o faterion yn ymwneud â thâl ar sail perfformiad, dylai’r Pwyllgor ddathlu’r modd y deliodd â’r mater hwn. Amlygodd y broses hon y ffaith nad yw Pwyllgorau’n bodoli er mwyn gweithio ar eu pennau eu hunain. Maent yn bodoli i weithio gyda chyrff allanol. Mae’r ffordd y buom yn cynnal adolygiadau ac yn sicrhau cyfranogiad undebau’r athrawon ac eraill yn tanlinellu dull gweithio aeddfed y Pwyllgorau. Mae’n dangos mai Pwyllgorau yw’r mecanwaith ar gyfer gwaith y Cynulliad. Efallai fod y Siambr drafod yma er mwyn cael penawdau a sylw ar y teledu, ond y Pwyllgorau sydd yn gwneud y gwaith a’r archwilio manwl. Dylem ddathlu hynny.

Secondly, we have begun to understand in detail how money reaches schools—and, in some cases, how it does not reach schools. As national politicians, it is important that we understand how money is distributed to schools, how it is held centrally by local authorities for certain services and how it gets straight to the chalkface. It is important that we understand that as the main distributor of schools’ funding.

Yn ail, yr ydym wedi dechrau deall yn fanwl sut y mae arian yn cyrraedd ysgolion—ac, mewn ambell achos, sut nad yw’n cyrraedd ysgolion. Fel gwleidyddion cenedlaethol, mae’n bwysig ein bod yn deall sut y dosberthir arian i ysgolion, sut y caiff ei ddal yn ganolog gan awdurdodau lleol ar gyfer gwasanaethau penodol a sut yr aiff yn syth at lawr y dosbarth. Mae’n bwysig ein bod yn deall hynny fel prif ddosbarthwr cyllid ysgolion.

My third point on the Committee’s successes relates to the review of ICT developments. Wales needs to be brought up to date in terms of ICT. It seriously lacks hardware, software, training and support. This is probably the most exciting review that the Committee will undertake. I do not say that because Huw Lewis and I are leading it, but because dragging our schools and LEAs into the twenty-first century, in terms of ICT, will impact greatly on the way that education is delivered in Wales in the future.

Mae a wnelo fy nhrydydd pwynt ar lwyddiannau’r Pwyllgor â’r adolygiad o ddatblygiadau TGCh. Mae angen llusgo Cymru i’r presennol yn nhermau TGCh. Mae’n ddifrifol ddiffygiol o ran caledwedd, meddalwedd, hyfforddiant a chefnogaeth. Dyma, mae’n debyg, yr adolygiad mwyaf cyffrous a wna’r Pwyllgor. Nid wyf yn dweud hynny am mai Huw Lewis a mi sydd yn ei arwain, ond oherwydd y bydd llusgo’n hysgolion â’n AALlau i mewn i’r unfed ganrif ar hugain, yn nhermau TGCh, yn cael effaith fawr ar y ffordd y cyflwynir addysg yng Nghymru yn y dyfodol.

The Committee has been unsuccessful—if I can briefly mention this, Presiding Officer—in considering the ETAG report. It came into it late and blinkered. The Post-16 Education and Training Committee spent several months considering it, but the Pre-16 Education Committee does not have time to consider many of the issues that it should have considered, particularly in relation to the effect on sixth forms, staffing and school budgets.

Bu’r Pwyllgor yn aflwyddiannus—os caf sôn am hyn yn fyr, Lywydd—yn ystyried adroddiad y Grŵp Gweithredu Addysg a Hyfforddiant. Daeth i mewn iddo’n hwyr ac yn ddall. Treuliodd y Pwyllgor Addysg a Hyfforddiant Ôl-16 rai misoedd yn ei ystyried, ond nid oes gan y Pwyllgor Addysg Cyn-16 amser i ystyried llawer o’r materion y dylasai fod wedi’u hystyried, yn enwedig yng nghyswllt yr effaith ar ddosbarthiadau chwech, staffio a chyllidebau ysgolion.

When we look at the bigger issues, for example, modern foreign languages, maintenance of school buildings, recruitment and retention of teachers and the achievement of qualifications, we need to set aside more time to consider them. We must ensure that we have the necessary time to consider these issues. However, if we rectify some of the problems that we have had over the past year, we will have an improved report to bring back next year.

Pan edrychwn ar y materion mwy, fel ieithoedd tramor modern, cynnal a chadw adeiladau ysgolion, recriwtio a chadw athrawon a sicrhau cymwysterau, er enghraifft, mae angen inni neilltuo mwy o amser i’w hystyried. Rhaid inni sicrhau bod gennym yr amser angenrheidiol i ystyried y materion hyn. Fodd bynnag, os cywirwn rai o’r problemau a gawsom dros y flwyddyn ddiwethaf, bydd gennym adroddiad gwell i’w gyflwyno’r flwyddyn nesaf.

Dafydd Elis-Thomas The Presiding Officer spoken in English p. 90

Dafydd Elis-Thomas Y Llywydd siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 90

And, I hope, more time to debate it.

A, gobeithiaf, mwy o amser i’w drafod.

Jenny Randerson spoken in English p. 90

Jenny Randerson siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 90

Like everyone else, I thank William Graham for being a firm, but fair Chair. I also thank the Committee clerks. The Pre-16 Education Committee has developed a good working relationship on a cross-party basis. It has had some interesting alliances. We had four representatives from the four parties working hard on performance management pay for teachers. Huw Lewis and Jonathan Morgan have been out and about and developed good policy ideas on ICT. They do the kind of in-depth work that a whole Committee could never have done.

Fel pawb arall, diolchaf i William Graham am fod yn Gadeirydd cadarn ond teg. Diolchaf hefyd i’r clercod Pwyllgor. Datblygodd y Pwyllgor Addysg Cyn-16 berthynas waith dda ar sail draws-bleidiol. Cafodd ambell gynghreiriad diddorol. Cawsom bedwar cynrychiolydd o’r pedair plaid yn gweithio’n galed ar dâl rheoli perfformiad i athrawon. Bu Huw Lewis a Jonathan Morgan ar grwydr a datblygasant syniadau polisi da ar TGCh. Gwnânt y math o waith manwl na allasai Pwyllgor cyfan fyth fod wedi ei wneud.

We have dealt with issues such as modern foreign languages, a subject as dear to Huw Lewis’s heart as it is to my own. We have learned as we have progressed and developed good in-depth reviews, particularly on ICT. The world almost did not notice when we had a quiet revolution last Thursday afternoon. We agreed to go ahead with consultation on early years education for three-year olds in Wales. When someone from the media phoned and I said that we were going ahead with consultation, they could not believe that we had reached a decision so quickly. We had the report and we decided.

Yr ydym wedi delio â materion fel ieithoedd tramor modern, pwnc sydd mor agos at galon Huw Lewis ag ydyw at fy nghalon i. Yr ydym wedi dysgu wrth fynd yn ein blaenau ac wedi datblygu adolygiadau manwl da, yn enwedig ar TGCh. Bu bron i’r byd beidio â sylwi pan gawsom chwyldro tawel brynhawn dydd Iau diwethaf. Cytunasom i fynd ymlaen ac ymgynghori ar addysg blynyddoedd cynnar i blant tair oed yng Nghymru. Pan ffoniodd rhywun o’r cyfryngau a minnau’n dweud ein bod yn mynd ymlaen â’r ymgynghoriad, ni allent gredu ein bod wedi dod i benderfyniad mor gyflym. Cawsom yr adroddiad a gwnaethom benderfyniad.

I am pleased that we are getting out and about. It is good for me, as someone who is strongly Cardiff-based, to visit rural schools, for example. We have had our frustrations over the question of performance management pay for teachers. However, it is important to point out that we have made progress even on that. I thank Rosemary for taking issues on board and for pressing our concerns. Year on year performance management in Wales is now carried out by LEA advisers. That would not have happened unless the Committee had expressed its views. Rosemary even made progress with David Blunkett. It was not as much as we would have liked, but Wales now has a different threshold process to that of England.

Yr wyf yn falch ein bod yn teithio o gwmpas. Mae’n dda i mi, fel un sydd wedi gwreiddio’n gryf yng Nghaerdydd, i ymweld ag ysgolion gwledig, er enghraifft. Cawsom rwystredigaethau dros gwestiwn tâl rheoli perfformiad i athrawon. Fodd bynnag, mae’n bwysig nodi ein bod wedi symud ymlaen hyd yn oed ar hynny. Diolchaf i Rosemary am dderbyn materion i’w hystyried ac am bwysleisio ein pryderon. Flwyddyn ar ôl blwyddyn caiff rheoli perfformiad yng Nghymru ei gyflawni bellach gan gynghorwyr yr AALlau. Ni fuasai hynny wedi digwydd oni bai i’r Pwyllgor fynegi ei safbwyntiau. Gwnaeth Rosemary rywfaint o gynnydd gyda David Blunkett hyd yn oed. Nid oedd gymaint ag y buasem wedi ei hoffi, ond mae gan Gymru bellach broses trothwy wahanol i un Lloegr.

Kirsty Williams spoken in English p. 91

Kirsty Williams siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 91

In discussing Members and policy-making in another place, do you feel that it would be appropriate for the Pre-16 Education Committee to address the issue of rural schools? Earlier this year, Estelle Morris made a significant announcement regarding support for rural schools. She announced £40 million for rural schools over a two-year period. The average payment will be £2,200. That will make a real difference to many of the rural schools in Wales. Is it not ironic that a country such as Wales, which has so many rural schools, has no policy for rural schools, whereas England does? Do you feel that that would be an appropriate piece of work for the Pre-16 Education Committee in the future?

Wrth sôn am Aelodau a llunio polisïau mewn lle arall, a ydych yn teimlo y byddai’n briodol i’r Pwyllgor Addysg Cyn-16 roi sylw i gwestiwn ysgolion gwledig? Yn gynharach eleni, gwnaeth Estelle Morris gyhoeddiad arwyddocaol ynglŷn â chefnogaeth i ysgolion gwledig. Cyhoeddodd £40 miliwn i ysgolion gwledig dros gyfnod o ddwy flynedd. Y taliad cyfartalog fydd £2,200. Gwnaiff hynny wahaniaeth gwirioneddol i lawer o’r ysgolion gwledig yng Nghymru. Onid yw’n eironig nad oes gan wlad fel Cymru, sydd â chymaint o ysgolion gwledig, bolisi ar gyfer ysgolion gwledig, tra bod un gan Loegr? A ydych yn teimlo y byddai hynny’n eitem waith briodol i’r Pwyllgor Addysg Cyn-16 yn y dyfodol?

Jenny Randerson spoken in English p. 91

Jenny Randerson siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 91

I am concerned about rural schools, so I will agree with you wholeheartedly. We will have that opportunity in the autumn because we consider spare surplus places in schools. That will be a good opportunity to raise the issue of rural schools. Whether it is intended that they be included or not, I shall bring them in.

Yr wyf yn bryderus am ysgolion gwledig, felly cytunaf yn llwyr â chi. Cawn y cyfle hwnnw yn yr hydref pan fyddwn yn ystyried lleoedd dros ben mewn ysgolion. Bydd hwnnw’n gyfle da i godi mater ysgolion gwledig. Os oes bwriad i’w cynnwys neu beidio, dof â hwy i mewn.

I will finish by addressing Gareth’s amendments. Amendment 1 is inaccurate. It underplays the Committee’s progress. It conveys a more negative image than we need to. We made progress not only on the schemes for performance management for teachers but also on behalf of other committees. We won recognition that we were entitled to independent legal advice. Amendment 2 has been withdrawn. Amendment 3 is factually inaccurate. It is not an issue for the Department for Education and Employment, but for the Government of Wales. We complain enough about what is the DfEE’s responsibility. Let us not start piling other issues on them that are not their responsibility. Above all, I regret that the good, effective work done by the Pre-16 Education Committee has, in this debate—brief as it is—been overshadowed by discussing these amendments. We must not allow Committee reports to be undermined in Plenary. They are the Committees’ reports. If we are not happy with them, they must be amended in that Committee. They then stand as they come to Plenary. I find the work of the Pre-16 Education Committee rewarding and I look forward to its further development and increased effectiveness next year.

Terfynaf drwy gyfeirio at welliannau Gareth. Mae gwelliant 1 yn anghywir. Mae’n bychanu’r cynnydd a wnaeth y Pwyllgor. Mae’n cyfleu delwedd fwy negyddol nag sydd angen. Cafwyd cynnydd nid yn unig ar y cynlluniau ar gyfer rheoli perfformiad athrawon ond hefyd ar ran pwyllgorau eraill. Enillasom gydnabyddiaeth fod gennym hawl i gyngor cyfreithiol annibynnol. Tynnwyd gwelliant 2 yn ôl. Mae gwelliant 3 yn ffeithiol anghywir. Nid yw’n fater i’r Adran Addysg a Chyflogaeth, ond i Lywodraeth Cymru. Cwynwn ddigon am bethau sydd yn gyfrifoldeb yr Adran Addysg a Chyflogaeth. Peidiwn â dechrau pentyrru materion eraill arnynt nad ydynt yn gyfrifoldeb iddynt. Yn anad dim, gresynaf fod y gwaith da, effeithiol a wnaethpwyd gan y Pwyllgor Addysg Cyn-16 wedi’i fwrw i’r cysgod yn y ddadl hon—byr fel ag y mae—drwy drafod y gwelliannau hyn. Rhaid inni beidio â chaniatáu tanseilio adroddiadau Pwyllgorau yn y Cyfarfod Llawn. Adroddiadau’r Pwyllgorau ydynt. Os nad ydym yn hapus â hwy, rhaid eu diwygio yn y Pwyllgor hwnnw. Wedyn safant fel y maent yn y Cyfarfod Llawn. Caf foddhad o weithio ar y Pwyllgor Addysg Cyn-16 ac edrychaf ymlaen at iddo ddatblygu ymhellach a chynyddu’i effeithiolrwydd y flwyddyn nesaf.

Huw Lewis spoken in English p. 92

Huw Lewis siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 92

I also welcome the report. It echoes and reflects a year of hard work and innovative thinking on the part of Committee members and support staff. I thank them as other Members have done. They have worked extremely hard. As there is so little time, I will focus on one important area, which is the present and future importance of ICT in schools. It cannot be overstated. We are rapidly approaching the point in the twenty-first century when computer illiteracy will be as disabling to someone’s life’s chances as plain old-fashioned illiteracy was in the twentieth century. There are profound implications, if you take that statement as read, for teaching and learning in our schools. It goes far beyond the idea that ICT is a stand alone subject and that the main thrust of our policies should simply be to provide the black boxes, the computers, for the classrooms. It is so much more than that. We do not have time to go into it now, which is unfortunate. I direct Members to the papers on the intranet in the hope that they will consider the issue. It is a distinctive Welsh opportunity. The Committee has been involved in that innovative thinking. The co-working with Rosemary has been excellent. We have a chance through the Cwricwlwm Cymreig to add value to what is happening in the British scene through the National Grid for Learning and other initiatives.

Yr wyf finnau’n croesawu’r adroddiad. Mae’n adleisio ac yn adlewyrchu blwyddyn o waith caled a meddwl blaengar ar ran aelodau’r Pwyllgor a’i staff ategol. Diolchaf iddynt hwy fel y gwnaeth Aelodau eraill. Maent wedi gweithio’n galed dros ben. Gan fod cyn lleied o amser, canolbwyntiaf ar un maes pwysig, sef pwysigrwydd TGCh mewn ysgolion yn awr ac yn y dyfodol. Ni ellir ei orbwysleisio. Yr ydym yn prysur gyrraedd y pwynt yn yr unfed ganrif ar hugain pan fydd anllythrennedd cyfrifiadurol mor andwyol i gyfleoedd bywyd rhywun ag yr oedd anllythrennedd henffasiwn yn yr ugeinfed ganrif. Mae goblygiadau dyfnion, os derbyniwch fod y gosodiad hwnnw’n wir, i addysgu a dysgu yn ein hysgolion. Aiff ymhell y tu hwnt i’r syniad fod TGCh yn bwnc ar ei ben ei hun ac mai prif nod ein polisïau yn syml ddylai fod darparu’r blychau du, y cyfrifiaduron, i’r ystafelloedd dosbarth. Mae’n gymaint mwy na hynny. Nid oes gennym amser i fynd i mewn iddo yn awr, sydd yn anffodus. Cyfeiriaf Aelodau at y papurau ar y fewnrwyd yn y gobaith yr ystyriant y mater. Mae’n gyfle arbennig i Gymru. Mae’r Pwyllgor wedi ymwneud â’r meddwl arloesol hwnnw. Cafwyd cydweithio ardderchog gyda Rosemary. Mae gennym gyfle drwy’r Cwricwlwm Cymreig i ychwanegu gwerth at yr hyn sydd yn digwydd yn y cyd-destun Prydeinig drwy’r Grid Dysgu Cenedlaethol a chynlluniau eraill.

Finally, I add my disappointment to that already voiced about the tabled amendments. This not the place for such dicussions. It eats away at time. It eats at my speech now when I should be talking positively about the policy making and other matters in which the Committee has been involved. On that point, I find it astonishing that Gareth Jones has been disappointed by the policy making impact of this Committee. The Committee has generated more policy-making ideas than you can shake a stick at. They have been positive in terms of co-working. I echo Jonathan’s comment that that kind of constructive Committee work makes it fulfilling to be a backbench Member of this Assembly. I find it disappointing that one political party has chosen to abandon that spirit and exhume arguments that are months old in an attempt to make political points about Wales’s relationship with Westminster. Let us have that debate but not here and not at the expense of this Committee’s work.

Yn olaf, ychwanegaf fy siom at yr hyn a leisiwyd yn barod ynglŷn â’r gwelliannau a gyflwynwyd. Nid dyma’r lle ar gyfer trafodaethau o’r fath. Mae’n erydu amser. Mae’n erydu fy araith i yn awr pryd y dylwn fod yn siarad yn gadarnhaol am y gwaith llunio polisi a materion eraill y bu’r Pwyllgor yn ymwneud â hwy. Ar y pwynt hwnnw, mae’n syndod mawr i mi fod Gareth Jones wedi’i siomi gan effaith y Pwyllgor hwn o ran llunio polisi. Mae’r Pwyllgor wedi cynhyrchu mwy o syniadau polisi nag y gallwch eu rhifo. Buont yn bositif yn nhermau cydweithio. Ategaf sylw Jonathan fod y math hwnnw o waith Pwyllgor adeiladol yn rhoi boddhad i Aelod mainc gefn o’r Cynulliad hwn. Mae’n siom i mi fod un blaid wleidyddol wedi dewis rhoi heibio’r ysbryd hwnnw ac atgyfodi dadleuon sydd fisoedd o oed mewn ymgais i wneud pwyntiau gwleidyddol am berthynas Cymru â San Steffan. Gadewch inni gael y ddadl honno, ond nid yma ac nid ar draul gwaith y Pwyllgor hwn.

Rosemary Butler The Secretary for Education and Children spoken in English p. 93

Rosemary Butler Yr Ysgrifennydd Addysg a Phlant siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 93

I have enjoyed the debate this afternoon and I thank all those who have appreciated the efforts of the whole Committee. In his opening remarks, William touched on the wide range of challenging activities that the Pre-16 Education Committee has turned its mind to in the first year of its existence. I have no intention of repeating his comprehensive précis of our work. However, I will add my perceptions of our first year.

Yr wyf wedi mwynhau’r ddadl y prynhawn yma a diolchaf i bawb sydd wedi gwerthfawrogi ymdrechion y Pwyllgor cyfan. Yn ei sylwadau agoriadol, cyffyrddodd William ar amrediad eang o weithgareddau heriol a gafodd sylw’r Pwyllgor Addysg Cyn-16 ym mlwyddyn gyntaf ei fodolaeth. Nid oes gennyf unrhyw fwriad i ailadrodd ei grynodeb cynhwysfawr o’n gwaith. Fodd bynnag, ychwanegaf fy argraffiadau o’n blwyddyn gyntaf.

Like all Committees, we have used the agenda set out in ‘Betterwales.com’ as the basis for our work. We have been conscious of the need to continue to raise standards of learning and attainment for every school pupil in Wales. Partnership has already been mentioned as has the need to work with other services to tackle social inclusion and disadvantage and to ensure that we tackle the huge problem of poor facilities and conditions in our schools. We are also considering information and communications technology and how to ensure that our younger children have a flying start in life. During our first year, we have sought to begin this process but, as has been said, much still remains to be done.

Fel pob Pwyllgor, yr ydym wedi defnyddio’r agenda a amlinellwyd yn ‘Gwellcymru.com’ fel sail i’n gwaith. Buom yn ymwybodol o’r angen i barhau i godi safonau dysgu a chyrhaeddiad pob disgybl mewn ysgol yng Nghymru. Soniwyd eisoes am bartneriaeth a’r angen i gydweithio gyda gwasanaethau eraill i fynd i’r afael ag allgáu ac anfantais gymdeithasol ac i sicrhau yr awn i’r afael â phroblem enfawr cyfleusterau ac amodau gwael yn ein hysgolion. Yr ydym hefyd yn ystyried technoleg gwybodaeth a chyfathrebu a sut i sicrhau y caiff ein plant iau gychwyn da mewn bywyd. Yn ystod ein blwyddyn gyntaf, yr ydym wedi ceisio cychwyn y broses hon ond, fel y dywedwyd, mae llawer i’w wneud o hyd.

One approach that we have adopted, in which we have invested a considerable amount of time, is the three policy reviews to which have been referred. The first review is of the early years education provision for three-year-olds. As Jenny has said, that is exciting and innovative. We hope to deliver a scheme that will be the best in the United Kingdom and one of the best in Europe. We are now working on the report with the benefit of help from Margaret Hanney, our expert adviser. We are working on a myriad of issues that surround the practical implementation of a policy. However, it is my firm intention that we should come to an early conclusion on the matters of detail.

Un dull a fabwysiadwyd gennym, y buddsoddasom gryn dipyn o amser ynddo, yw’r tri adolygiad polisi y cyfeiriwyd atynt. Adolygiad o ddarpariaeth addysg y blynyddoedd cynnar i blant tair oed yw’r adolygiad cyntaf. Fel y dywedodd Jenny, mae hynny’n gyffrous ac yn arloesol. Gobeithiwn gyflwyno cynllun a fydd y gorau yn y Deyrnas Unedig ac yn un o’r goreuon yn Ewrop. Yr ydym yn gweithio ar yr adroddiad yn awr gyda chymorth Margaret Hanney, ein cynghorydd arbenigol. Yr ydym yn gweithio ar nifer o faterion sydd yn ymwneud â gweithredu polisi yn ymarferol. Fodd bynnag, fy mwriad pendant yw y dylem ddod i gasgliad yn fuan ar y manylion.

The second review that has already been mentioned is the review of ICT. I congratulate Huw Lewis and Jonathan Morgan on the innovative way in which they have taken this forward. It is important that all young people in Wales are conversant with ICT. ICT is the future and young people are the future of Wales. The combination of the two is vital to the future success of our country.

Yr ail adolygiad a grybwyllwyd yn barod yw’r adolygiad o TGCh. Llongyfarchaf Huw Lewis a Jonathan Morgan ar y ffordd arloesol y maent wedi datblygu hyn. Mae’n bwysig i holl bobl ifanc Cymru fod yn gyfarwydd â TGCh. TGCh yw’r dyfodol a phobl ifanc yw dyfodol Cymru. Mae’r cyfuniad o’r ddau’n holl bwysig i lwyddiant ein gwlad yn y dyfodol.

The third policy review is of the supply of school places: what is the optimum number that should be available bearing in mind demographic trends, how much it would cost to retain an excess level of such places, and how local education authorities should effectively manage their stock of school places. I look forward to the final report, which will hopefully enable us to upgrade our guidance to local authorities on surplus places, on rural schools and a raft of other issues. I hope that we will come to a conclusion on that soon.

Y cyflenwad o leoedd ysgol yw’r trydydd adolygiad polisi: beth yw’r nifer gorau a ddylai fod ar gael gan gofio tueddiadau demograffig, faint y byddai’n ei gostio i gadw lefel rhy uchel o leoedd o’r fath, a sut y dylai awdurdodau addysg lleol reoli eu stoc o leoedd ysgol yn effeithiol. Edrychaf ymlaen at yr adroddiad terfynol, a fydd gobeithio yn ein galluogi i uwchraddio’n canllawiau i awdurdodau lleol ar leoedd dros ben, ar ysgolion gwledig a llu o faterion eraill. Gobeithiaf y deuwn i gasgliad ar hynny cyn bo hir.

The issue that has probably dominated our work in publicity terms over the past year is teachers’ performance and pay. Many strong views have been expressed in the Committee and considerable legal advice was sought—an enormous amount, in fact. The respective responsibilities of the Assembly and the Department for Education and Employment were clarified.

Y mater sydd, mae’n debyg, wedi cael y lle blaenaf yn ein gwaith yn nhermau cyhoeddusrwydd dros y flwyddyn ddiwethaf yw perfformiad a thâl athrawon. Mynegwyd ambell farn gref yn y Pwyllgor a cheisiwyd cryn dipyn o gyngor cyfreithiol—swm aruthrol, a dweud y gwir. Cafwyd eglurhad ar gyfrifoldebau’r Cynulliad a’r Adran Addysg a Chyflogaeth ill dau.

Gareth Jones’s amendment 1 reflects his discontent at the fact that the Department for Education and Employment has responsibility for teachers’ pay in Wales as well as in England. I have no intention of reopening that debate today but his amendments are off-target. On the second clause of amendment 1, I fail to see how the Government of Wales can be condemned for clarifying its responsibilities and for complying with the law. We should not lose sight, as Jenny Randerson said, of our achievement in persuading DfEE to use different and distinctive mechanisms in Wales to meet Wales’s needs. In England, private contractors are being used for the quality assurance of threshold assessments. In Wales, DfEE, on our recommendation, is using local authority consortia for the assurance process. I hope that every teacher in Wales who is eligible for the threshold assessment will seriously consider applying. Gareth cannot keep having it both ways as illustrated by his amendment 3, which relates to graduate training. It is really about his dissatisfaction with the different position that has been introduced in Wales when I decided not to make training grants available to those entering training in Wales in 2000-01 to become teachers in primary schools. On all other education matters he wants us to be different from England. You must make up your mind, Gareth. The priority need was for teachers in secondary schools and I have given assurance on several occasions that this matter will be reviewed in time. William has already spelt out our priorities for the remainder of the Assembly term. They include the opportunity to look again at our schools: to view them as more than simply educational establishments but as part of an ongoing learning continuum which links into business and other parts of our daily life. This is exciting and it will give us the opportunity to set aside past models and templates and, dare I say, even prejudices. I hope that it will also allow us to look laterally and in a fresh way at this important element of all aspects of our community life. We will also consider ways of promoting and fostering even greater social inclusion within schools. Although many important advances have already been made on that, other equally worrying trends are emerging, which we must address if disaffection is ever to be conquered.

Mae gwelliant 1 Gareth Jones yn adlewyrchu ei anhapusrwydd ynglŷn â’r ffaith mai’r Adran Addysg a Chyflogaeth sydd yn gyfrifol am dâl athrawon yng Nghymru yn ogystal ag yn Lloegr. Nid oes gennyf unrhyw fwriad i ailagor y ddadl honno heddiw ond mae ei welliannau’n methu’r targed. Ar ail gymal gwelliant 1, methaf weld sut y gellir condemnio Llywodraeth Cymru am sicrhau eglurhad o’i chyfrifoldebau ac am gydymffurfio â’r gyfraith. Ni ddylem golli golwg, fel y dywedodd Jenny Randerson, ar yr hyn a gyflawnwyd gennym yn perswadio’r Adran Addysg a Chyflogaeth i ddefnyddio mecanweithiau gwahanol ac arbennig yng Nghymru i ateb anghenion Cymru. Yn Lloegr, defnyddir contractwyr preifat i sicrhau ansawdd asesiadau trothwy. Yng Nghymru, mae’r Adran Addysg a Chyflogaeth, ar ein hargymhelliad, yn defnyddio consortia awdurdodau lleol ar gyfer y broses sicrhau. Gobeithiaf y bydd pob athro neu athrawes yng Nghymru sydd yn gymwys ar gyfer yr asesiad trothwy yn rhoi ystyriaeth ddifrifol i wneud cais. Ni all Gareth ei chael hi bob ffordd o hyd, fel y dangosir gan welliant 3 o’i eiddo, sydd yn ymwneud â hyfforddi graddedigion. Yr hyn sydd yn ei gorddi mewn gwirionedd yw’r sefyllfa wahanol a gyflwynwyd yng Nghymru pan benderfynais beidio â chynnig grantiau hyfforddi i rai sydd yn mynd i mewn i hyfforddiant yng Nghymru yn 2000-01 i fynd yn athrawon ysgolion cynradd. Ar bob mater addysg arall mae arno eisiau inni fod yn wahanol i Loegr. Rhaid ichi benderfynu, Gareth. Y flaenoriaeth oedd yr angen am athrawon mewn ysgolion uwchradd ac yr wyf wedi rhoi sicrwydd sawl gwaith yr adolygir y mater hwn ymhen amser. Mae William eisoes wedi amlinellu’n blaenoriaethau ar gyfer gweddill tymor y Cynulliad. Maent yn cynnwys y cyfle i edrych eto ar ein hysgolion: i’w gweld fel mwy na sefydliadau addysgol yn unig ond fel rhan o gontinwwm dysgu parhaus sydd yn cysylltu â busnes a rhannau eraill o’n bywyd dyddiol. Mae hyn yn gyffrous a bydd yn rhoi cyfle inni roi heibio modelau a phatrymluniau ac, os meiddiaf ddweud, hyd yn oed ragfarnau y gorffennol. Gobeithiaf y bydd hefyd yn caniatáu inni edrych o’r ochr ac mewn ffordd newydd ar yr elfen bwysig hon ym mhob agwedd ar ein bywyd cymunedol. Byddwn hefyd yn ystyried ffyrdd o hyrwyddo a meithrin mwy fyth o gynhwysiant cymdeithasol o fewn ysgolion. Er y cymerwyd sawl cam pwysig ymlaen ar hynny eisoes, mae tueddiadau eraill sydd yr un mor boenus yn dod i’r wyneb, a rhaid inni roi sylw iddynt os ydym am goncro anniddigrwydd.

One of our most exciting challenges next year will be to develop the children and young people strategy, which is the first in the United Kingdom. All of these issues are challenging ones, but I am convinced that, with clear commitment from all members of the Committee and their evident desire to ensure that every child in Wales receives the finest education, we will secure the best possible outcome. We have had lively debates and, on occasion, disagreement, but our shared goal is the educational welfare of our future generations; we must not fail them.

Un her ymhlith y mwyaf cyffrous inni y flwyddyn nesaf fydd datblygu’r strategaeth plant a phobl ifanc, sef y gyntaf yn y Deyrnas Unedig. Mae’r materion hyn i gyd yn cynnig her, ond yr wyf yn argyhoeddedig, gydag ymrwymiad clir gan holl aelodau’r Pwyllgor a’u hawydd amlwg i sicrhau y caiff pob plentyn yng Nghymru yr addysg orau, y gallwn sicrhau’r canlyniad gorau posibl. Cawsom ddadleuon bywiog ac, ar adegau, anghytundeb, ond y nod a rannwn yw lles addysgol cenedlaethau ein dyfodol; rhaid inni beidio â’u siomi.

I thank the clerk, officials and advisers who have assisted us with the Committee’s work during the last year. It has been an interesting 12 months, during which we have all sought to adapt to new working practices. Committee members have done so with consistent good humour, willingly and effectively. When you have a Chairman who always wears a fresh flower in his lapel, you can only succeed. I also congratulate William Graham on the fair way in which he has chaired the Committee. I am certain that those good working relationships will continue.

Diolchaf i’r clerc, y swyddogion a’r cynghorwyr a’n cynorthwyodd gyda gwaith y Pwyllgor yn ystod y flwyddyn ddiwethaf. Bu’n 12 mis diddorol, pryd y bu’n rhaid inni i gyd geisio ymaddasu i arferion gweithio newydd. Gwnaeth aelodau’r Pwyllgor hynny yn gyson hwyliog, parod ac effeithiol. Pan fo gennych Gadeirydd sydd bob amser yn gwisgo blodyn ffres yn ei labed, ni allwch ond llwyddo. Llongyfarchaf William Graham hefyd ar y modd teg y cadeiriodd y Pwyllgor. Yr wyf yn sicr y bydd y berthynas waith dda honno yn parhau.

William Graham spoken in English p. 96

William Graham siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 96

I thank the contributors to the debate, particularly the Committee members for their contributions over the last year. I place on record my thanks to the Secretary for Education and Children for her commitment to include the Committee in the work of developing policies. The Committee’s approach to the scrutiny of the Assembly Secretary and her policies has been constructive and positive. In my opening speech, I mentioned that the Committee was concerned about time pressures, which were demonstrated again today. I have heard your comments. Efforts will be made, when key policies are before the Committee to ensure that sufficient time is allocated to allow a full consideration of all the issues.

Diolchaf i’r cyfranogwyr i’r ddadl, yn enwedig aelodau’r Pwyllgor am eu cyfraniadau dros y flwyddyn ddiwethaf. Cofnodaf fy niolch i’r Ysgrifennydd Addysg a Phlant am ei hymrwymiad i gynnwys y Pwyllgor yn y gwaith o ddatblygu polisïau. Bu’r ffordd yr aeth y Pwyllgor ati i gadw llygad ar yr Ysgrifennydd Cynulliad a’i pholisïau yn adeiladol a chadarnhaol. Yn fy araith agoriadol, soniais fod y Pwyllgor yn poeni am bwysau amser, a ddangoswyd eto heddiw. Yr wyf wedi clywed eich sylwadau. Gwneir ymdrechion, pan fydd polisïau allweddol ger bron y Pwyllgor, i sicrhau y clustnodir digon o amser i ganiatáu ystyried y materion i gyd yn llawn.

The members have enjoyed meeting with a range of organisations and individuals who contribute to education in Wales. I record the Committee’s appreciation of the commitment and hard work of all those who ensure that education in Wales is placed on a firm foundation, on which a level of excellence can be built that will best serve the children in Wales. In that recognition, I include the Education Department’s officials led by Richard Davies. Papers supporting issues to be considered have been helpful, and the preparedness of officials to contribute to the Committee’s deliberations with candour and clarity has been particularly valuable. I would be grateful if the Assembly Secretary would convey the Committee’s thanks to her officials.

Mae’r aelodau wedi mwynhau cyfarfod ag amrediad o gyrff ac unigolion sydd yn cyfrannu at addysg yng Nghymru. Cofnodaf werthfawrogiad y Pwyllgor o ymroddiad a gwaith caled pawb sydd yn sicrhau bod addysg yng Nghymru wedi’i gosod ar sylfaen gadarn, lle gellir adeiladu lefel o ragoriaeth a fydd yn gwasanaethu plant Cymru orau. Yn y gydnabyddiaeth honno, yr wyf yn cynnwys swyddogion yr Adran Addysg dan arweiniad Richard Davies. Bu papurau atodol ar faterion a oedd dan sylw yn ddefnyddiol, a bu parodrwydd swyddogion i gyfranogi yn onest a chroyw yn nhrafodaethau’r Pwyllgor yn arbennig o werthfawr. Byddwn yn ddiolchgar pe gallai’r Ysgrifennydd Cynulliad gyfleu diolch y Pwyllgor i’w swyddogion.

The Committee has agreed that its priorities over the remaining period of the Assembly session are: to promote social inclusion in schools; to conduct a study of teacher recruitment issues; to tackle the challenge of special education needs across Wales; to promote creativity, active social engagement and enterprise in pre-16 education; to look at the school of the future covering all ages, 24-hour education, new school terms, redefining the role of the teacher and looking at new links between education and other sectors; to build effective community partnerships and to strengthen the teaching of modern foreign languages. The children and young people strategy will be a major issue for the Committee’s consideration in the forthcoming term. It has also agreed to look jointly with the Post-16 Education and Training Committee at post-16 qualifications. The Committee will continue to invite organisations with an interest in education to make presentations to it so that its knowledge of all parts of education in Wales is enhanced. The Committee will also continue with a programme of school visits. It has agreed to hold some of its meetings during the autumn session outside Cardiff.

Mae’r Pwyllgor wedi cytuno mai ei flaenoriaethau dros weddill sesiwn y Cynulliad fydd: hyrwyddo cynhwysiant cymdeithasol mewn ysgolion; gwneud astudiaeth o faterion recriwtio athrawon; mynd i’r afael â her anghenion addysgol arbennig ar draws Cymru; hyrwyddo creadigrwydd, ymwneud cymdeithasol a menter weithredol mewn addysg cyn-16; edrych ar ysgol y dyfodol i gynnwys pob oed, addysg 24-awr, tymhorau ysgol newydd, ailddiffinio rôl athrawon ac edrych ar gysylltiadau newydd rhwng addysg a sectorau eraill; adeiladu partneriaethau cymunedol effeithiol a chryfhau dysgu ieithoedd tramor modern. Bydd y strategaeth ar gyfer plant a phobl ifanc yn fater pwysig i’w ystyried gan y Pwyllgor yn y tymor sydd o’n blaenau. Mae hefyd wedi cytuno i edrych ar y cyd â’r Pwyllgor Addysg a Hyfforddiant Ôl-16 ar gymwysterau ôl-16. Bydd y Pwyllgor yn parhau i wahodd cyrff sydd â diddordeb mewn addysg i wneud cyflwyniadau iddo er mwyn cynyddu’i wybodaeth am bob rhan o addysg yng Nghymru. Bydd y Pwyllgor hefyd yn dal ati gyda rhaglen o ymweliadau ag ysgolion. Cytunodd i gynnal rhai o’i gyfarfodydd yn ystod sesiwn yr hydref y tu allan i Gaerdydd.

I conclude by thanking Committee members for allowing me the privilege of being their Chairman and I also place on record my thanks to the Committee Clerk and her deputy, without whose assistance this report would not have been possible.

I gloi, diolchaf i aelodau’r Pwyllgor am ganiatáu’r fraint i mi o fod yn Gadeirydd arnynt a hoffwn innau gofnodi fy niolch i’r Clerc Pwyllgor a’i dirprwy, a wnaeth yr adroddiad hwn yn bosibl.

Gwelliant 1 Gareth Jones t. 98

Amendment 1 Gareth Jones p. 98

GwrthodwydRejected O blaidFor 15 YmatalAbstain 0 Yn erbynAgainst 35

Gwrthodwyd y gwelliant.

Amendment rejected.

Sut y pleidleisiodd yr AelodauHow Members voted
O blaidFor (15)
  • Peter Black
  • Cynog Dafis
  • Geraint Davies
  • Janet Davies
  • Jocelyn Davies
  • Brian Hancock
  • Elin Jones
  • Gareth Jones
  • Helen Mary Jones
  • Ieuan Wyn Jones
  • David Lloyd
  • Janet Ryder
  • Owen John Thomas
  • Rhodri Glyn Thomas
  • Phil Williams
Yn erbynAgainst (35)
  • Lorraine Barrett
  • Mick Bates
  • Nick Bourne
  • Rosemary Butler
  • Christine Chapman
  • Andrew Davies
  • David Davies
  • Glyn Davies
  • Ron Davies
  • Richard Edwards
  • Sue Essex
  • Delyth Evans
  • Val Feld
  • Michael German
  • Brian Gibbons
  • William Graham
  • Janice Gregory
  • John Griffiths
  • Christine Gwyther
  • Alison Halford
  • Jane Hutt
  • Ann Jones
  • Carwyn Jones
  • Huw Lewis
  • John Marek
  • David Melding
  • Tom Middlehurst
  • Jonathan Morgan
  • Rhodri Morgan
  • Lynne Neagle
  • Alun Pugh
  • Jenny Randerson
  • Peter Rogers
  • Gwenda Thomas
  • Kirsty Williams

Tynnwyd gwelliant 2 yn ôl.

Amendment 2 withdrawn.

Gwelliant 3 Gareth Jones t. 98

Amendment 3 Gareth Jones p. 98

GwrthodwydRejected O blaidFor 15 YmatalAbstain 0 Yn erbynAgainst 35

Gwrthodwyd y gwelliant.

Amendment rejected.

Sut y pleidleisiodd yr AelodauHow Members voted
O blaidFor (15)
  • Peter Black
  • Cynog Dafis
  • Geraint Davies
  • Janet Davies
  • Jocelyn Davies
  • Brian Hancock
  • Elin Jones
  • Gareth Jones
  • Helen Mary Jones
  • Ieuan Wyn Jones
  • David Lloyd
  • Janet Ryder
  • Owen John Thomas
  • Rhodri Glyn Thomas
  • Phil Williams
Yn erbynAgainst (35)
  • Lorraine Barrett
  • Mick Bates
  • Nick Bourne
  • Rosemary Butler
  • Christine Chapman
  • Andrew Davies
  • David Davies
  • Glyn Davies
  • Ron Davies
  • Richard Edwards
  • Sue Essex
  • Delyth Evans
  • Val Feld
  • Michael German
  • Brian Gibbons
  • William Graham
  • Janice Gregory
  • John Griffiths
  • Christine Gwyther
  • Alison Halford
  • Jane Hutt
  • Ann Jones
  • Carwyn Jones
  • Huw Lewis
  • John Marek
  • David Melding
  • Tom Middlehurst
  • Jonathan Morgan
  • Rhodri Morgan
  • Lynne Neagle
  • Alun Pugh
  • Jenny Randerson
  • Peter Rogers
  • Gwenda Thomas
  • Kirsty Williams

Cynnig William Graham t. 99

Motion William Graham p. 99

DerbyniwydAdopted O blaidFor 48 YmatalAbstain 0 Yn erbynAgainst 2

Derbyniwyd y cynnig.

Motion adopted.

Sut y pleidleisiodd yr AelodauHow Members voted
O blaidFor (48)
  • Lorraine Barrett
  • Mick Bates
  • Peter Black
  • Nick Bourne
  • Rosemary Butler
  • Christine Chapman
  • Cynog Dafis
  • Andrew Davies
  • David Davies
  • Geraint Davies
  • Glyn Davies
  • Janet Davies
  • Jocelyn Davies
  • Ron Davies
  • Richard Edwards
  • Sue Essex
  • Val Feld
  • Michael German
  • Brian Gibbons
  • William Graham
  • Janice Gregory
  • John Griffiths
  • Christine Gwyther
  • Brian Hancock
  • Jane Hutt
  • Ann Jones
  • Carwyn Jones
  • Elin Jones
  • Gareth Jones
  • Helen Mary Jones
  • Ieuan Wyn Jones
  • Huw Lewis
  • David Lloyd
  • John Marek
  • David Melding
  • Tom Middlehurst
  • Jonathan Morgan
  • Rhodri Morgan
  • Lynne Neagle
  • Alun Pugh
  • Jenny Randerson
  • Peter Rogers
  • Janet Ryder
  • Gwenda Thomas
  • Owen John Thomas
  • Rhodri Glyn Thomas
  • Kirsty Williams
  • Phil Williams
Yn erbynAgainst (2)
  • Delyth Evans
  • Alison Halford

Pwynt o Drefn

Point of Order

Lorraine Barrett spoken in English p. 100

Lorraine Barrett siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 100

Point of order. Standing Order No. 6.5 states:

Pwynt o drefn. Dywed Rheol Sefydlog Rhif 6.5:

‘time shall be made available in each 12 month period for…debates on reports submitted by Subject Committees’.

‘trefnir bod amser ar gael ym mhob cyfnod o 12 mis ar gyfer...dadleuon ar adroddiadau a gyflwynir gan y Pwyllgorau Pwnc’.

I express my concern that not enough time was allowed for the debate on the Pre-16 Education Committee report, thus doing a disservice to the Committee’s work.

Mynegaf fy mhryder na chaniatawyd digon o amser ar gyfer y ddadl ar adroddiad y Pwyllgor Addysg Cyn-16, gan wneud anghymwynas felly â gwaith y Pwyllgor.

Dafydd Elis-Thomas The Presiding Officer spoken in English p. 100

Dafydd Elis-Thomas Y Llywydd siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 100

I share your view, but this matter is not in my hands. It is a matter for the Business Committee, which advises the Assembly on the conduct of business. We must review the amount of time that is made available for debating Committee reports. This has happened recently with other Committee reports. The Business Secretary is nodding in agreement. [Interruption.] Sorry, he is not nodding. I hope that the Business Committee will agree to review the amount of time that is made available for debating Committee reports.

Yr wyf o’r un farn, ond nid yw’r mater yn fy nwylo i. Mater ydyw i’r Pwyllgor Busnes, sydd yn cynghori’r Cynulliad ar y modd y cynhelir busnes. Rhaid inni adolygu’r maint o amser a roddir ar gyfer trafod adroddiadau Pwyllgorau. Digwyddodd hyn yn ddiweddar gydag adroddiadau Pwyllgorau eraill. Mae’r Trefnydd yn nodio’i ben i ddangos ei fod yn cytuno. [Torri ar draws.] Mae’n ddrwg gennyf, nid yw’n nodio. Gobeithiaf y gwnaiff y Pwyllgor Busnes gytuno i adolygu faint o amser a roddir ar gyfer trafod adroddiadau Pwyllgorau.

Andrew Davies The Business Secretary spoken in English p. 101

Andrew Davies Y Trefnydd siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 101

Further to that point of order, I do not want to take up any more Plenary time. The proposed handling of business was agreed in yesterday’s meeting of the Business Committee. We took those issues on board. There is a heavy agenda for this session and for next week. The Business Committee considered this issue carefully.

Ar y pwynt hwnnw o drefn, nid oes arnaf eisiau cymryd dim rhagor o amser y Cyfarfod Llawn. Cytunwyd ar y modd arfaethedig o drin busnes yng nghyfarfod y Pwyllgor Busnes ddoe. Derbyniasom y materion hyn. Mae agenda drom ar gyfer y sesiwn hon ac ar gyfer yr wythnos nesaf. Ystyriodd y Pwyllgor Busnes y mater hwn yn ofalus.

Dadl Fer

Short Debate

Yr Argyfwng mewn Addysg Gymraeg yn Abertawe

The Crisis in Welsh-Medium Education in Swansea

Dafydd Elis-Thomas Y Llywydd siaradwyd yn Gymraeg t. 101

Dafydd Elis-Thomas The Presiding Officer spoken in Welsh p. 101

Ychwanegaf chwe munud at amser y ddadl fer, er nad oes gennyf hawl i wneud hynny yn ôl y Rheolau Sefydlog.

I will add six minutes to the time for the short debate, although the Standing Orders do not give me the right to do so.

David Lloyd siaradwyd yn Gymraeg ac yn Saesneg t. 101

David Lloyd spoken in Welsh and English p. 101

Datganaf fuddiant fel rhiant i blant sydd yn derbyn addysg Gymraeg mewn dwy o ysgolion Abertawe, a hefyd fel llywodraethwr ysgol Gymraeg arall yn Abertawe. Yr wyf wedi cytuno i Owen John Thomas, Val Feld, Peter Black a Jonathan Morgan gael munud yr un o’m dosraniad amser cyfyng ar gyfer y ddadl hon.

in Welsh I declare an interest as the parent of children who receive Welsh-medium education in two of Swansea’s schools, and also as a governor of another Welsh-medium school in Swansea. I have agreed for Owen John Thomas, Val Feld, Peter Black and Jonathan Morgan to have a minute each of my limited time allocation for this debate.

Mae argyfwng mewn addysg Gymraeg yn Abertawe, a bu felly ers blynyddoedd maith. Bu rhieni’n brwydro ers dros 15 mlynedd am y tegwch a’r cyfiawnder i’n plant gael eu haddysgu yn eu mamiaith ac, yn gynyddol, yn newis iaith pobl na allant siarad Cymraeg bellach. Mae 62 y cant o rieni Ysgol Gymraeg Bryn-y-Môr yn ddi-Gymraeg. Nid dadl dros addysg Gymraeg i siaradwyr Cymraeg yn unig yw hon. Mae’n ddadl dros addysg Gymraeg i’n plant, pa bynnag iaith y mae eu rhieni’n siarad.

in Welsh There is a crisis in Welsh-medium education in Swansea, and there has been for many years. Parents have been fighting for over 15 years for the fairness and justice for our children to be educated in their mother tongue and, increasingly, in the chosen language of people who can no longer speak Welsh. Sixty-two per cent of parents at Ysgol Gymraeg Bryn-y-Môr are non-Welsh speaking. This argument is not solely for Welsh-medium education for Welsh speakers. It is an argument for Welsh-medium education for our children, whatever language their parents speak.

Yr wyf wedi derbyn nifer fawr o lythyrau, fel sawl Aelod arall, gan rieni Ysgol Gymraeg Tirdeunaw, Ysgol Gymraeg Bryn-y-Môr ac Ysgol Gyfun Gŵyr. Mae gan Gyngor Dinas a Sir Abertawe drefniadau gwirion ar y gweill ar gyfer dyfodol addysg Gymraeg yn ein dinas a’n sir.

in Welsh I have received a large number of letters, as have a number of other Members, by the parents of Ysgol Gymraeg Tirdeunaw, Ysgol Gymraeg Bryn-y-Môr and Ysgol Gyfun Gŵyr. Swansea City and County Council has silly arrangements in the offing for the future of Welsh-medium education in our city and county.

This is not about Welsh-speaking parents wanting a Welsh-medium education. Most of the parents who send their children to Welsh-medium schools in Swansea are non-Welsh speaking. There has been a sorry history over the last 50 years of people in the Swansea area, much of which is still naturally Welsh speaking, being denied a basic right to have their children educated in the language of their choice. Parents and pupils have been shifted from pillar to post over the last 50 years. Our schools have been opened, moved, opened somewhere else and then moved again. The current proposals are a reflection of that tendency on the part of the local council. When West Glamorgan County Council was in existence between 1974 and 1996, the number of Welsh-medium primary schools in the areas stayed constant at nine. During the same period, Mid Glamorgan County Council managed to treble its number of Welsh-medium primary schools in areas that are far less naturally Welsh-speaking. Swansea’s record at that time was a disgrace. Since the establishment of Swansea City and County Council we have had a couple of extra Welsh-medium schools.

yn Saesneg Nid mater bod rhieni Cymraeg eisiau addysg Gymraeg yw hwn. Mae’r rhan fwyaf o’r rhieni sydd yn anfon eu plant i ysgolion Cymraeg yn Abertawe yn ddi-Gymraeg. Bu hanes truenus dros yr 50 mlynedd diwethaf o wadu i bobl yn ardal Abertawe, sydd lawer ohoni’n dal yn naturiol Gymraeg ei hiaith, yr hawl sylfaenol i gael addysgu’u plant yn eu dewis iaith. Cafodd rhieni a disgyblion eu symud o bared i bost dros yr 50 mlynedd diwethaf. Agorwyd ein hysgolion, eu symud, eu hagor yn rhywle arall ac wedyn eu symud eto. Mae’r cynigion presennol yn adlewyrchu’r duedd honno ar ran y cyngor lleol. Pan oedd Cyngor Sir Gorllewin Morgannwg mewn bodolaeth rhwng 1974 a 1996, arhosodd nifer yr ysgolion cynradd Cymraeg yn yr ardaloedd yn gyson ar naw. Yn ystod yr un cyfnod, llwyddodd Cyngor Sir Morgannwg Ganol i dreblu ei nifer o ysgolion cynradd Cymraeg mewn ardaloedd sydd yn llawer llai naturiol Gymraeg. Yr oedd record Abertawe dros y cyfnod hwnnw’n gywilydd. Ers sefydlu Cyngor Dinas a Sir Abertawe yr ydym wedi cael un neu ddwy o ysgolion Cymraeg ychwanegol.

The growth in demand for Welsh-medium education goes ever skywards. The Swansea City and County Council’s response is inadequate to that call. Eighteen hundred pupils will need Welsh-medium secondary education in the area by 2008. The proposals are completely inadequate. There is only one Welsh-medium secondary school in Swansea. It is proposed to close Ysgol Gyfun Gŵyr and move it to another, slightly larger site. The school has about 950 pupils, although there is room for only 700. Where will we house 1,800 pupils? We may move to a slightly larger school. We will need to move again in five years’ time. Do they still propose to treat parents like gypsies by moving Welsh-medium schools around? Let us create extra Welsh-medium secondary schools. We need at least one—

yn Saesneg Dal i saethu i fyny wna’r twf yn y galw am addysg Gymraeg. Mae ymateb Cyngor Dinas a Sir Abertawe yn annigonol yn wyneb y galw hwnnw. Bydd angen addysg uwchradd Gymraeg ar 1,800 o ddisgyblion yn yr ardal erbyn 2008. Mae’r hyn a gynigir yn gwbl annigonol. Dim ond un ysgol uwchradd Gymraeg sydd yn Abertawe. Bwriedir cau Ysgol Gyfun Gŵyr a’i symud i safle arall, ychydig yn fwy. Mae gan yr ysgol ryw 950 o ddisgyblion, er nad oes lle i fwy na 700. Ble roddwn ni 1,800 o ddisgyblion? Gallwn symud i ysgol ychydig yn fwy. Bydd angen symud eto ymhen pum mlynedd. A ydynt yn dal i fwriadu trin rhieni fel sipsiwn drwy symud ysgolion Cymraeg o gwmpas? Dewch inni greu ysgolion uwchradd Cymraeg ychwanegol. Mae angen o leiaf un—

Dafydd Elis-Thomas The Presiding Officer spoken in English p. 103

Dafydd Elis-Thomas Y Llywydd siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 103

Order. You may want to reconsider a remark that may be regarded as discriminatory or racist.

Trefn. Efallai yr hoffech ailystyried sylw y gellid ei weld yn un gwahaniaethol neu hiliol.

David Lloyd spoken in English p. 103

David Lloyd siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 103

Sorry?

Mae’n ddrwg gen i?

Andrew Davies spoken in English p. 103

Andrew Davies siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 103

It is significant that the speaker does not recognise your point.

Mae’n arwyddocaol nad ydyw’r siaradwr yn cydnabod eich pwynt.

David Lloyd spoken in English p. 103

David Lloyd siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 103

I withdraw my remark.

Tynnaf fy sylw yn ôl.

Owen John Thomas spoken in English p. 103

Owen John Thomas siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 103

What about ‘nomadic’?

Beth am ‘grwydrol’?

David Lloyd spoken in English p. 103

David Lloyd siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 103

Forcing us into a nomadic existence would be a fair way of putting it. The current proposals are to close Ysgol Gyfun Gŵyr and Ysgol Gymraeg Tirdeunaw and move them. No pressure will be taken off Ysgol Gymraeg Bryn-y-môr, although this could be achieved by opening a Welsh-medium primary school in the west of Swansea, in the West Cross and Mayals area. That is what is required in the short term. We must stop these kinds of arguments. We have had many confrontations over the years. We need direction from the Assembly and a mature response from Swansea City and County Council. ‘Partnership’ is the word that we like to use. We want partnership, rather than continual battles, between the Assembly, the local authority and parents. We want a meaningful, long-term strategy for the development of Welsh-medium education in Swansea, to recognise the increase that will inexorably happen. We want a long-term strategy, not a short-term, knee-jerk reaction such as the current proposals.

Byddai ein gorfodi i fodolaeth grwydrol yn ffordd deg o’i fynegi. Y cynigion presennol yw cau Ysgol Gyfun Gŵyr ac Ysgol Gymraeg Tirdeunaw a’u symud. Ni chymerir dim pwysau oddi ar Ysgol Gymraeg Bryn-y-môr, er y gellid gwneud hyn drwy agor ysgol gynradd Gymraeg yng ngorllewin Abertawe, yn ardal West Cross a Mayals. Dyna beth sydd ei angen yn y tymor byr. Rhaid inni roi taw ar y math hwn o ddadleuon. Cawsom sawl ffrae dros y blynyddoedd. Mae angen cyfarwyddyd gan y Cynulliad ac ymateb aeddfed gan Gyngor Dinas a Sir Abertawe. Mae ‘partneriaeth’ yn air yr ydym yn hoff o’i ddefnyddio. Mae arnom eisiau partneriaeth, yn hytrach na brwydrau di-baid, rhwng y Cynulliad, yr awdurdod lleol a’r rhieni. Mae arnom eisiau strategaeth ystyrlon, dymor hir, ar gyfer datblygu addysg Gymraeg yn Abertawe, i gydnabod y cynnydd sydd yn rhwym o ddigwydd. Mae arnom eisiau strategaeth dymor hir, nid adwaith byrbwyll, tymor byr fel y cynigion presennol.

The number of Welsh-medium pupils in the city and county of Swansea will grow to 1,800 in the next 10 years. We must have a meaningful response. We need more than one Welsh-medium secondary school. This is a crisis. There are people who have been fighting far longer than I have for justice for Welsh-medium education in Swansea. We need that justice. At long last, we have a national stage to present our case. I welcome the other contributions.

Bydd nifer y disgyblion Cymraeg yn ninas a sir Abertawe’n tyfu i 1,800 yn y 10 mlynedd nesaf. Rhaid inni gael ymateb ystyrlon. Mae angen mwy nag un ysgol uwchradd Gymraeg. Mae hyn yn argyfwng. Mae pobl sydd wedi bod yn ymladd yn llawer hirach na mi am gyfiawnder i addysg Gymraeg yn Abertawe. Mae arnom angen y cyfiawnder hwnnw. O’r diwedd, mae gennym lwyfan genedlaethol i gyflwyno’n hachos. Croesawaf gyfraniadau eraill.

Owen John Thomas siaradwyd yn Gymraeg t. 103

Owen John Thomas spoken in Welsh p. 103

Mae’r diffyg cefnogaeth ac ewyllys da gan Gyngor Dinas a Sir Abertawe yn glir pan ystyriwch y ddarpariaeth yn y ddinas o’i chymharu ag ardaloedd o faint tebyg. Gall 14 y cant o boblogaeth Abertawe siarad Cymraeg. Mae naw ysgol gynradd Gymraeg ac un ysgol uwchradd yn y ddinas. Yng Nghaerdydd, mae 7 y cant o bobl yn siarad Cymraeg. Mae 11 ysgol gynradd a dwy ysgol uwchradd yno. Yn Rhondda Cynon Taf, mae 10 y cant o bobl yn siarad Cymraeg. Mae 16 o ysgolion cynradd a phedair ysgol uwchradd yno. Nid yw’r sefyllfa mewn lleoedd eraill yn dderbyniol ychwaith.

The lack of support and goodwill by Swansea City and County Council is clear when you consider the provision in the city compared to areas of similar size. Fourteen per cent of Swansea’s population can speak Welsh. There are nine Welsh-medium primary schools and one secondary school in the city. In Cardiff, 7 per cent of people speak Welsh. There are 11 primary schools and two secondary schools there. In Rhondda Cynon Taff, 10 per cent of people speak Welsh. There are 16 Welsh-medium primary schools and four secondary schools there. The situation in other places is not acceptable either.

Dafydd Elis-Thomas Y Llywydd siaradwyd yn Gymraeg t. 104

Dafydd Elis-Thomas The Presiding Officer spoken in Welsh p. 104

A wnewch chi ddod i derfyn?

Will you conclude?

Owen John Thomas siaradwyd yn Gymraeg t. 104

Owen John Thomas spoken in Welsh p. 104

Newydd ddechrau yr wyf. Yr wyf wedi tynnu’n ôl o siarad unwaith yn barod i helpu. Nid yw hyn yn deg.

I have only just started. I have already withdrawn from speaking once to help. This is not fair.

Dafydd Elis-Thomas Y Llywydd siaradwyd yn Gymraeg t. 104

Dafydd Elis-Thomas The Presiding Officer spoken in Welsh p. 104

Trefn. Nid tynnu’n ôl i helpu wnaethoch chi. Nid oedd amser i siaradwr arall o’ch grwp i siarad. Nid tynnu’n ôl i helpu oedd hynny. Penderfyniad y Gadair oedd hynny. Mae pum siaradwr arall—un funud yr un—ac yr ydych wedi cael munud.

Order. You did not withdraw to help. There was no time for another speaker from your group to speak. That was not withdrawing to help. That was the Chair’s decision. There are five other speakers—one minute each—and you have had one minute.

Owen John Thomas siaradwyd yn Gymraeg t. 104

Owen John Thomas spoken in Welsh p. 104

Hoffwn eich atgoffa o’r hyn a ddywedodd Rhodri Morgan tua 10 mlynedd yn ôl ar faes yr Eisteddfod. Yr oedd yn tynnu sylw at y problemau a oedd yn wynebu addysg Gymraeg yng Nghaerdydd ar y pryd. Dywedodd,

I will just remind you of what Rhodri Morgan said about 10 years ago on the Eisteddfod field. He was drawing attention to the problems facing Welsh-medium education in Cardiff at the time. He said,

‘I always thought that everybody accepted that Welsh-medium education thrived in adversity.’

Ers inni sefydlu’r ysgol Gymraeg gyntaf yn Llanelli yn 1947, mae rhieni wedi ymgyrchu am hawl i gael addysg Gymraeg i’w plant.

Since we established the first Welsh-medium school in Llanelli in 1947, parents have campaigned for the right to have Welsh-medium education for their children.

Dafydd Elis-Thomas Y Llywydd siaradwyd yn Gymraeg t. 104

Dafydd Elis-Thomas The Presiding Officer spoken in Welsh p. 104

Trefn. Mae eich amser ar ben.

Order. Your time is up.

Owen John Thomas siaradwyd yn Gymraeg t. 104

Owen John Thomas spoken in Welsh p. 104

Galwaf am archwiliad cenedlaethol i addysg Gymraeg fel y gallwn gael strategaeth genedlaethol i gael gwared o’r tyndra rhwng rhieni ac awdurdodau.

I call for a national audit of Welsh-medium education so that we can have a national strategy to get rid of the tension between parents and authorities.

Jonathan Morgan spoken in English p. 105

Jonathan Morgan siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 105

I thank Dai Lloyd for bringing this to the Assembly’s attention. This issue has been on the minds of Members who represent the Swansea area. I know that this is important in the context of the county and city. There is also a wider issue of Welsh-medium provision that the Assembly needs to take into account. Perhaps in the future, the Assembly’s Pre-16 Education, Schools and Early Learning Committee could examine this in detail. Swansea’s record in the field of Welsh-medium provision is well documented. The problems of Bryn-y-Môr school, in particular, have been highlighted on many occasions by Members of this Chamber, especially in relation to problems relating to pupil admissions, teaching space and school transport. It is not just the provision of Welsh-medium education; there have been serious problems in relation to the school. I know that Dai is aware of those problems as a governor of the school.

Diolch i Dai Lloyd am ddod â hyn i sylw’r Cynulliad. Bu’r mater hwn ar feddyliau Aelodau sydd yn cynrychioli ardal Abertawe. Gwn fod hyn yn bwysig yng nghyd-destun y sir a’r ddinas. Y mae hefyd gwestiwn ehangach o ddarpariaeth Gymraeg y mae angen i’r Cynulliad ei ystyried. Efallai yn y dyfodol, y gallai Pwyllgor Addysg Cyn-16, Ysgolion ac Addysg Gynnar y Cynulliad edrych yn fanwl ar hyn. Ysgrifennwyd digon am record Abertawe ym maes addysg Gymraeg. Tynnwyd sylw at broblemau ysgol Bryn-y-Môr, yn arbennig, ar sawl achlysur gan Aelodau yn y Siambr hon, yn enwedig yng nghyd-destun problemau’n ymwneud â derbyn disgyblion, lle dysgu a chludiant ysgol. Nid y ddarpariaeth addysg Gymraeg yw’r unig broblem; bu problemau difrifol gyda’r ysgol. Gwn fod Dai’n ymwybodol o’r problemau hynny fel un o lywodraethwyr yr ysgol.

I understand that the authority has been severely criticised by the Welsh Language Board for its approach to Welsh-medium provision and for submitting its plans late. There was a hint that had it not made plans for a new school, the Welsh Language Board would have asked the Assembly Secretary for Education and Children to instruct the council to do so. Issues need to be resolved. Demands for Welsh-medium provision need to be satisfied. If parents want their children to be educated through the medium of Welsh, we should do everything possible, through our education authorities, to see that that happens. Perhaps the Secretary for Education and Children could indicate whether the Committee could examine provision across Wales, as there are wider issues here beyond Swansea.

Deallaf fod yr awdurdod wedi’i feirniadu’n hallt gan Fwrdd yr Iaith Gymraeg am ei agwedd at ddarpariaeth Gymraeg ac am gyflwyno’i gynlluniau’n hwyr. Yr oedd awgrym pe na bai wedi cynllunio ar gyfer ysgol newydd, y byddai Bwrdd yr Iaith wedi gofyn i Ysgrifennydd y Cynulliad dros Addysg a Phlant orchymyn y cyngor i wneud hynny. Mae angen datrys y materion. Mae angen bodloni galwadau am addysg Gymraeg. Os yw rhieni’n dymuno i’w plant gael eu haddysgu drwy gyfrwng y Gymraeg, dylem wneud popeth posibl, drwy’n hawdurdodau addysg, i sicrhau y digwydd hynny. Efallai y gallai’r Ysgrifennydd Addysg a Phlant nodi a allai’r Pwyllgor edrych ar y ddarpariaeth ar draws Cymru, gan fod materion yma sydd yn ymestyn yn ehangach y tu hwnt i Abertawe.

Peter Black spoken in English p. 105

Peter Black siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 105

I declare an interest as a member of Swansea council and a former governor of Ysgol Gymraeg Bryn-y-Môr. The Council needs a strategy on Welsh-medium education, we need to increase the number of primary schools delivering Welsh-medium education and we need a comprehensive school. The Assembly needs to work with the council on this. Above all—and this is where the Assembly can help—we need investment in our school provision. We need investment in the backlog of maintenance and repair and we need investment in new schools. If that money is available, the council can use some of that money to put together a proper Welsh-medium language strategy.

Datganaf fuddiant fel aelod o gyngor Abertawe a chyn-lywodraethwr ar Ysgol Gymraeg Bryn-y-Môr. Mae angen strategaeth addysg Gymraeg ar y cyngor, mae angen inni gynyddu’r nifer o ysgolion cynradd sydd yn rhoi addysg Gymraeg ac mae angen ysgol gyfun. Mae angen i’r Cynulliad weithio gyda’r cyngor ar hyn. Uwchlaw popeth—a dyma lle y gall y Cynulliad helpu—mae angen buddsoddi yn ein darpariaeth ysgolion. Mae angen buddsoddi yn y gwaith trwsio a chynnal a chadw sydd wedi cronni ac mae angen buddsoddi mewn ysgolion newydd. Os yw’r arian hwnnw ar gael, gall y cyngor ddefnyddio rhyw gymaint o’r arian hwnnw i lunio strategaeth briodol ar yr iaith Gymraeg.

Val Feld siaradwyd yn Gymraeg ac yn Saesneg t. 106

Val Feld spoken in Welsh and English p. 106

Diolch am y cyfle i siarad.

in Welsh Thank you for the opportunity to speak.

I am committed to Welsh-medium education but it is inflammatory to talk about a crisis in Swansea. There is a problem. The growth of the demand for Welsh-medium education has outstripped provision, but the council is dealing with that. It has a strategy, which has been drawn up with the agreement of the Welsh Language Board. Perhaps it should have done that quicker. There are many things that it should have done, but it does now have a strategy. It is important that we have a reasoned debate and that we look at what the potential demand will be. We know that resources are tight in education. I am with Peter on that. We are investing substantially more money but we need to do a great deal with it. We have major problems in our school buildings across Swansea, in English-medium as well as Welsh-medium education. I hope that this debate will look forward to what we need, as an Assembly and a nation, to develop bilingualism. I would like the Assembly to focus on improving Welsh language teaching in our English-medium schools and not only concentrate on Welsh-medium schools. In particular, I would like us to consider the potential to develop bilingual schools so that Welsh and English speakers can begin to blur the boundaries between them.

yn Saesneg Yr wyf yn ymroddedig i addysg Gymraeg ond siarad ymfflamychol yw sôn am argyfwng yn Abertawe. Y mae problem. Mae’r twf yn y galw am addysg Gymraeg wedi symud yn gynt na’r ddarpariaeth, ond mae’r cyngor yn delio â hynny. Mae ganddo strategaeth, a luniwyd gyda chytundeb Bwrdd yr Iaith Gymraeg. Efallai y dylai fod wedi gwneud hynny’n gynt. Mae llawer o bethau y dylai fod wedi’u gwneud, ond y mae ganddo strategaeth erbyn hyn. Mae’n bwysig inni gael dadl resymol ac edrych ar beth fydd y galw posibl. Gwyddom fod adnoddau’n brin ym maes addysg. Cytunaf â Peter ar hynny. Yr ydym yn buddsoddi arian sylweddol fwy ond mae angen gwneud llawer iawn gyda’r arian. Mae gennym broblemau mawr yn ein hadeiladau ysgol ar draws Abertawe, mewn addysg Saesneg yn ogystal â Chymraeg. Gobeithiaf yr edrycha’r ddadl hon ymlaen at yr hyn sydd ei angen arnom, fel Cynulliad ac fel cenedl, i ddatblygu dwyieithrwydd. Hoffwn i’r Cynulliad ganolbwyntio ar wella dysgu Cymraeg yn ein hysgolion Saesneg ac nid canolbwyntio’n unig ar ysgolion Cymraeg. Yn arbennig, hoffwn inni ystyried y potensial i ddatblygu ysgolion dwyieithog fel y gall siaradwyr Cymraeg a Saesneg ddechrau cymylu’r ffiniau rhyngddynt.

I am pleased that this discussion is taking place. The strategy will go out for consultation during the next few months. It is important that we give our input and give real thought to what we want as regards bilingual provision across the whole of Wales, not only in Swansea.

yn Saesneg Yr wyf yn falch bod y drafodaeth hon yn digwydd. Aiff y strategaeth allan ar gyfer ymgynghori yn ystod y misoedd nesaf. Mae’n bwysig inni roi’n mewnbwn a meddwl o ddifrif am yr hyn sydd gennym ei eisiau o safbwynt darpariaeth ddwyieithog ar draws Cymru gyfan, nid yn Abertawe’n unig.

Rosemary Butler The Secretary for Education and Children spoken in English p. 106

Rosemary Butler Yr Ysgrifennydd Addysg a Phlant siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 106

I have listened to the debate with interest. Assembly Members have expressed strong feelings on this issue and have argued their points with force—perhaps ‘hwyl’ is a better word. I understand those feelings and I sympathise with their desire that children in the Swansea area should have access to high quality education. If parents wish for their children’s education to be through the medium of Welsh, that option should be available.

Gwrandewais ar y ddadl gyda diddordeb. Mae Aelodau’r Cynulliad wedi mynegi teimladau cryf ar y mater hwn ac wedi dadlau eu hachos yn rymus—efallai mai ‘hwyl’ yw’r gair gorau. Deallaf y teimladau hynny a chydymdeimlaf â’u hawydd y dylai plant yn ardal Abertawe gael mynediad at addysg o ansawdd uchel. Os yw rhieni’n dymuno i addysg eu plant fod drwy gyfrwng y Gymraeg, dylai’r dewis hwnnw fod ar gael.

I must take issue with the premise at the heart of this debate—that there is a crisis in Swansea. The provision of school places is a matter for the local education authority, and I do not speak for them. However, if we consider some of the facts available to us, they do not paint a picture of crisis. First, consider the existing provision for Welsh-medium education in Swansea. Ten per cent of primary schools in the authority area already teach through the medium of Welsh. Half the other LEAs in Wales have a lower level of provision, therefore why should provision at this level in Swansea be perceived as a crisis? Two of these primary schools were established in recent years and are still expanding, adding an extra year group each year until they become full Welsh-medium primary schools.

Rhaid imi anghytuno â’r gosodiad wrth galon y ddadl hon—fod argyfwng yn Abertawe. Mater i’r awdurdod addysg lleol yw darpariaeth lleoedd ysgol, ac ni siaradaf ar eu rhan. Fodd bynnag, os ystyriwn rai o’r ffeithiau sydd ar gael inni, nid ydynt yn rhoi darlun o argyfwng. Yn gyntaf, ystyriwch y ddarpariaeth bresennol ar gyfer addysg Gymraeg yn Abertawe. Mae deg y cant o’r ysgolion cynradd yn ardal yr awdurdod eisoes yn dysgu drwy gyfrwng y Gymraeg. Ceir lefel is o ddarpariaeth yn hanner yr AALlau eraill yng Nghymru, felly pam y dylid gweld darpariaeth ar y lefel hon yn Abertawe fel argyfwng? Sefydlwyd dwy o’r ysgolion cynradd hyn mewn blynyddoedd diweddar ac maent yn dal i ehangu, gan ychwanegu grŵp blwyddyn ychwanegol bob blwyddyn hyd nes byddant yn ysgolion cynradd Cymraeg cyflawn.

There is also expansion in the secondary sector. Swansea has one Welsh-medium secondary school for 11 to 16-year-olds—Ysgol Gyfun Gŵyr—where pupil numbers have been growing rapidly. Only last week, the Swansea City and County Council completed the necessary formal procedures to expand this school to include post-16 provision.

Mae cynnydd yn y sector uwchradd hefyd. Mae gan Abertawe un ysgol uwchradd Gymraeg ar gyfer plant 11 i 16 oed—Ysgol Gyfun Gŵyr—lle mae niferoedd disgyblion wedi bod yn tyfu’n gyflym. Dim ond yr wythnos diwethaf, cwblhaodd Cyngor Dinas a Sir Abertawe y trefniadau ffurfiol angenrheidiol i ehangu’r ysgol hon i gynnwys darpariaeth ôl-16.

What evidence is there that this provision is insufficient? There is no unmet demand for places at these Welsh-medium schools. Most of them have unfilled places and could take more children if parents so wished. None of the schools are so over-subscribed that children have been turned away or refused admission on appeal. These facts suggest that current provision is sufficient for current demand.

Pa dystiolaeth sydd fod y ddarpariaeth hon yn annigonol? Nid oes dim galw sydd heb ei ateb am leoedd yn yr ysgolion Cymraeg hyn. Mae gan y rhan fwyaf ohonynt leoedd heb eu llenwi a gallent gymryd mwy o blant pe dymunai’r rhieni. Nid oes un o’r ysgol mor orlawn fel y bu’n rhaid troi plant i ffwrdd neu wrthod mynediad iddynt ar apêl. Awgryma’r ffeithiau hyn fod y ddarpariaeth bresennol yn ddigonol ar gyfer y galw cyfredol.

David Lloyd spoken in English p. 108

David Lloyd siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 108

Ysgol Gyfun Gŵyr has 200 pupils more than the building can accommodate. We do not have another school and, therefore, is that not a crisis?

Mae gan Ysgol Gyfun Gŵyr 200 yn fwy o ddisgyblion nag y gall yr adeilad eu cymryd. Nid oes gennym ysgol arall ac, felly, onid yw hynny’n argyfwng?

Rosemary Butler spoken in English p. 108

Rosemary Butler siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 108

I have checked these facts twice with the local education authority because I understand that this is a sensitive issue. If you wish to prove that they are wrong, you should take it up with the LEA.

Yr wyf wedi gwirio’r ffeithiau hyn ddwywaith gyda’r awdurdod addysg lleol oherwydd deallaf fod hwn yn fater sensitif. Os dymunwch brofi eu bod yn anghywir, dylech godi’r mater gyda’r AALl.

Despite the fact that there are spare places in Welsh-medium education in Swansea, the local education authority is making plans to expand Welsh-medium provision further. It is doing so because it estimates that the demand will increase in the future, as every speaker today has mentioned. The authority has found that when new Welsh-medium schools open, they tend to fill quickly. There is also an increasing trend for English-speaking parents to send their children to Welsh-medium schools. The LEA has assessed that this latent demand for Welsh-medium education—from a population that is not, in large measure, traditionally Welsh speaking—will outstrip the existing provision in the next 5 years.

Er gwaethaf y ffaith fod lleoedd sbâr mewn addysg Gymraeg yn Abertawe, mae’r awdurdod addysg lleol yn gwneud cynlluniau i ehangu addysg Gymraeg ymhellach. Mae’n gwneud hynny am ei fod yn amcangyfrif y bydd y galw’n cynyddu yn y dyfodol, fel y crybwyllodd pob siaradwr heddiw. Mae’r awdurdod wedi gweld pan agorir ysgolion Cymraeg newydd, y tueddant i lenwi’n gyflym. Mae tuedd gynyddol hefyd i rieni di-Gymraeg anfon eu plant i ysgolion Cymraeg. Mae’r AALl wedi asesu y bydd y galw cwsg hwn am addysg Gymraeg—gan boblogaeth nad ydyw, i raddau helaeth, yn draddodiadol Gymraeg ei hiaith—wedi goddiweddyd y ddarpariaeth bresennol yn y pum mlynedd nesaf.

This view of future trends was set out in Swansea’s school organisation plan, published earlier this year. In the plan, the authority made forecasts of the expected pupil numbers at all the schools in the area during the next five years. In the majority of its schools, the expected trend is a decline in pupil numbers, mainly caused by demographic change. By contrast, certain schools, including nine out of the 10 Welsh-medium schools, are predicted to experience significant increases in number. In the five-year forward plan for the organisation and delivery of school places, Swansea local education authority has recognised explicitly that there may be a growing demand for Welsh-medium school places, although that is not yet proven. It has acknowledged that options need to be formulated now, for the rationalised provision where demand is falling and to cater for areas with growing demand. That includes a growing demand for denominational schools.

Amlinellwyd yr olwg hon ar dueddiadau’r dyfodol yng nghynllun trefniadaeth ysgolion Abertawe, a gyhoeddwyd yn gynharach eleni. Yn y cynllun, gwnaeth yr awdurdod ragolygon o’r niferoedd disgyblion disgwyliedig ym mhob ysgol yn yr ardal dros y pum mlynedd nesaf. Yn y rhan fwyaf o’i ysgolion, y duedd a ddisgwylir yw dirywiad mewn niferoedd disgyblion, a achosir yn bennaf gan newid demograffig. Yn groes i hynny, rhagwelir y bydd rhai ysgolion, gan gynnwys naw o’r 10 ysgol Gymraeg, yn gweld cynnydd arwyddocaol yn eu niferoedd. Yn y blaengynllun pum mlynedd ar gyfer trefnu a darparu lleoedd ysgol, mae awdurdod addysg lleol Abertawe wedi cydnabod yn benodol y gall fod galw cynyddol am leoedd ysgol Cymraeg, er nad yw hynny wedi’i brofi eto. Mae wedi cydnabod bod angen llunio opsiynau’n awr, ar gyfer rhesymoli’r ddarpariaeth lle mae’r galw ar drai ac ar gyfer yr ardaloedd lle mae twf yn y galw. Mae hynny’n cynnwys twf yn y galw am ysgolion enwadol.

In the school organisation plan it was envisaged that perhaps two new Welsh-medium primary schools would be required within five years, plus expansion at existing schools where that is possible. Ysgol Gymraeg Bryn-y-Môr is an example of a school that does not have a capacity of further expansion. However, not all the existing Welsh-medium primary schools are on such restricted sites. In the secondary sector, it was less clear whether the increasing level of demand required a new school or whether that demand would be better met by expansion and, possibly, relocation of the existing school.

Yn y cynllun trefniadaeth ysgolion, rhagwelwyd efallai y byddai angen dwy ysgol gynradd Gymraeg newydd o fewn pum mlynedd, ynghyd ag angen i ehangu yn yr ysgolion presennol mae hynny’n bosibl. Mae Ysgol Gymraeg Bryn-y-Môr yn enghraifft o ysgol lle nad oes lle i ehangu ymhellach. Fodd bynnag, nid yw pob un o’r ysgolion cynradd Cymraeg presennol ar safleoedd mor gyfyng. Yn y sector uwchradd, yr oedd yn llai clir a fyddai’r cynnydd yn lefel y galw yn golygu bod angen ysgol newydd neu a fyddai’n well cwrdd â’r galw hwnnw drwy ehangu ac, o bosibl, ail-leoli’r ysgol bresennol.

Those forecasts have been firmed up recently with the publication, only two days ago, of Swansea’s draft Welsh education scheme, a document prepared under the Welsh Language Act 1993 and in consultation with the Welsh Language Board. This scheme, which will now be the subject of a three-month public consultation, confirms that Welsh-medium education is available within a reasonable travelling distance for every child in Swansea whose parents request it. The scheme also sets a clear objective of increasing Welsh-medium provision. It suggests that one new Welsh-medium primary school should be established by September 2002, plus expansion at three existing primary schools, starting in September 2000. There should also be an increase of 450 secondary school places by 2003.

Atgyfnerthwyd y rhagolygon hynny’n ddiweddar gyda chyhoeddi, ddau ddiwrnod yn ôl, gynllun addysg Gymraeg drafft Abertawe, dogfen a baratowyd dan Ddeddf yr Iaith Gymraeg 1993 ac mewn ymgynghoriad â Bwrdd yr Iaith Gymraeg. Mae’r cynllun hwn, a fydd yn awr yn destun ymgynghoriad cyhoeddus tri mis, yn cadarnhau bod addysg Gymraeg ar gael o fewn pellter teithio rhesymol i bob plentyn yn Abertawe y mae ei rieni’n gofyn amdani. Mae’r cynllun hefyd yn gosod nod clir o gynyddu’r ddarpariaeth Gymraeg. Awgryma y dylid sefydlu un ysgol gynradd Gymraeg newydd erbyn Medi 2002, ynghyd ag ehangu tair ysgol gynradd bresennol, gan ddechrau ym Medi 2000. Dylai fod cynnydd o 450 o leoedd ysgol uwchradd hefyd erbyn 2003.

These targets for Welsh-medium education are not the only issues that the LEA has to address. There are significant levels of surplus capacity in schools in Swansea. Twenty per cent of the secondary school places are unfilled. That represents a waste of resources. In addition, pupil numbers are expected to continue to fall rapidly in some areas, while growth is expected in others, giving the LEA problems of distribution. The authority must set its plans for expanding Welsh-medium provision in the wider context. Its over-riding duty is to use the resources available to it to the best effect for the benefit of all the children in the area. Rationalisation of provision, utilising existing accommodation efficiently and directing resources to schools which are experiencing difficulties, must go hand in hand with plans for expansion. It would not be prudent to divert scarce capital resources into building new schools if there is accommodation standing empty.

Nid y targedau hyn ar gyfer addysg Gymraeg yw’r unig faterion y mae’n rhaid i’r AALl roi sylw iddynt. Mae lefelau sylweddol o leoedd gwag mewn ysgolion yn Abertawe. Mae 20 y cant o’r lleoedd ysgol uwchradd heb eu llenwi. Mae hynny’n cynrychioli gwastraff adnoddau. At hynny, disgwylir i niferoedd disgyblion barhau i gwympo’n gyflym mewn rhai ardaloedd, tra disgwylir twf mewn ardaloedd eraill, gan roi problemau dosbarthu i’r AALl. Rhaid i’r awdurdod osod ei gynlluniau ar gyfer ehangu’r ddarpariaeth Gymraeg yn y cyd-destun ehangach. Ei ddyletswydd yn anad dim yw defnyddio’r adnoddau sydd ar gael iddo i’r effaith orau er budd holl blant yr ardal. Law yn llaw â chynigion ar gyfer ehangu rhaid ystyried rhesymoli darpariaeth, defnyddio adeiladau sydd ar gael yn effeithlon a chyfeirio adnoddau i ysgolion lle ceir anawsterau. Ni fyddai’n ddoeth arallgyfeirio adnoddau cyfalaf prin i adeiladu ysgolion newydd os oes adeiladau’n sefyll yn wag.

I understand that Swansea LEA has looked at this wider picture, and has developed a range of reorganisation proposals which would result in an increase in Welsh-medium provision, but which are not driven purely by that objective. These proposals are still at an early stage and will each be the subject of wide local consultation. They begin with plans to amalgamate Penlan Comprehensive School and Mynyddbach Comprehensive School into a co-educational secondary school on one site. The next consideration would be the possible transfer of Ysgol Gyfun Gŵyr to the site vacated as a result of that merger. That would allow for expansion of the Welsh secondary school in a more central position. At the end of the chain of decisions it might be possible to establish a new Welsh-medium primary school.

Deallaf fod AALl Abertawe wedi edrych ar y darlun ehangach hwn, ac wedi datblygu amrediad o gynigion ad-drefnu a fyddai’n arwain at gynnydd yn y ddarpariaeth Gymraeg, ond nad ydynt wedi’u gyrru gan y nod hwnnw’n unig. Mae’r cynigion hyn yn dal mewn cyfnod cynnar a bydd pob un yn destun ymgynghori lleol ar raddfa eang. Dechreuant gyda chynlluniau i uno Ysgol Gyfun Penlan ac Ysgol Gyfun Mynyddbach yn ysgol uwchradd gymysg ar un safle. Yr ystyriaeth nesaf fyddai’r posibilrwydd o drosglwyddo Ysgol Gyfun Gŵyr i’r safle a adawyd yn wag gan yr uno hwnnw. Byddai hynny’n caniatáu ar gyfer ehangu’r ysgol uwchradd Gymraeg mewn lleoliad mwy canolog. Ar ben y gadwyn o benderfyniadau efallai y bydd modd sefydlu ysgol gynradd Gymraeg newydd.

There is a well-established statutory process for deciding on such reorganisation proposals and anyone with views on the matter will have ample opportunity to comment and contribute to the decision-making process. Ultimately the proposals may come to me, as Assembly Secretary for Education and Children, to determine. It would therefore not be appropriate for me to comment on the merits of any part of the scheme at this stage. However, I am pleased to see that Swansea is taking a strategic overview of the whole question of supply of school places and trying to ensure the efficient use of existing resources while catering for new demand.

Ceir proses statudol sydd wedi’i hen sefydlu ar gyfer penderfynu ar gynigion ad-drefnu o’r fath a chaiff unrhyw un sydd â barn ar y mater ddigon o gyfle i roi sylwadau a chyfrannu at y broses benderfynu. Yn y pen draw, gall y cynigion ddod ataf fi, fel Ysgrifennydd Addysg a Phlant y Cynulliad, i’w penderfynu. Felly, ni fyddai’n briodol imi roi sylw ar rinweddau unrhyw ran o’r cynllun ar hyn o bryd. Fodd bynnag, yr wyf yn falch o weld bod Abertawe’n cymryd golwg gyffredinol strategol ar holl gwestiwn y lleoedd ysgol sydd ar gael ac yn ceisio sicrhau defnydd effeithlon o’r adnoddau sydd yn bodoli tra’n darparu ar gyfer galw newydd.

It has been suggested today that Swansea LEA is failing in its duty by not providing new Welsh-medium schools immediately. I do not take that view. LEAs are required to make sufficient provision for the education of all children living in their area. I see evidence here of an LEA acknowledging a trend of growing demand for Welsh-medium education, but also needing to tackle problems of surplus school places, a failing school and a distribution of existing provision that does not match up well to current patterns of demand. These matters are inter-related and require a co-ordinated approach. Swansea has started to address these issues. Much hard work will be required to bring them to fruition, but I wish Swansea well with its endeavours. In these circumstances, talk of a ‘crisis’ is misplaced.

Awgrymwyd heddiw fod AALl Abertawe yn methu yn ei ddyletswydd drwy beidio â darparu ysgolion Cymraeg newydd ar unwaith. Nid wyf fi’n rhannu’r farn honno. Mae’n rhaid i AALlau gynnig darpariaeth ddigonol ar gyfer addysg pob plentyn sydd yn byw yn eu hardal. Gwelaf dystiolaeth yma fod yr AALl yn cydnabod tuedd o alw cynyddol am addysg Gymraeg, ond bod arno angen delio hefyd â phroblemau lleoedd gormodol mewn ysgolion, ysgol sydd yn methu a dosbarthiad darpariaeth bresennol nad yw’n gweddu’n dda i batrymau cyfredol y galw. Mae cydberthynas rhwng y materion hyn ac mae angen dull cydlynol o’u datrys. Mae Abertawe wedi dechrau rhoi sylw i’r materion hyn. Bydd angen llawer o waith caled er mwyn iddynt ddwyn ffrwyth, ond dymunaf yn dda i Abertawe yn ei ymdrechion. Yn yr amgylchiadau hyn, mae siarad am ‘argyfwng’ yn gyfeiliornus.

Dafydd Elis-Thomas Y Llywydd siaradwyd yn Gymraeg t. 111

Dafydd Elis-Thomas The Presiding Officer spoken in Welsh p. 111

Dyna ddiwedd sesiwn heddiw. Diolchaf i’r Aelodau am eu cydweithrediad.

That is the end of today’s session. I thank Members for their co-operation.

Daeth y cyfarfod i ben am 5.32 p.m.

The session ended at 5.32 p.m.