Cynulliad Cenedlaethol CymruNational Assembly for Wales · Cyfarfod llawnPlenary sitting
Dydd Mawrth 7 Tachwedd 2000
Tuesday 7 November 2000
CynnwysContents
- 3Cwestiynau i Brif Weinidog CymruQuestions to the First Minister
- 3Cyfrifiad 2001The 2001 Census
- 5Egwyddorion ‘Gwellcymru.com’The Principles in ‘Betterwales.com’
- 6Newid Teitlau Aelodau’r CabinetChanging Cabinet Members’ Titles
- 7Datblygu Protocol ar Ryddid GwybodaethDeveloping a Protocol on Freedom of Information
- 9Swyddogaeth y Gweinidog sydd yn Gyfrifol am y GymraegThe Role of the Minister Responsible for the Welsh Language
- 10Datblygiad Polisïau a’r Ddogfen ‘Rhoi Cymru’n Gyntaf’Policy Development and the ‘Putting Wales First’ Document
- 11Datblygiad Polisïau a ‘Gwellcymru.com’Policy Development and ‘Betterwales.com’
- 13Polisïau’r Cynulliad a’r Cytundeb PartneriaethAssembly Policies and the Partnership Agreement
- 14Prosiect Telebentref CrycywelThe Crickhowell Tele-village Project
- 17Swyddogaethau sydd yn cael eu Cyflawni gan Adrannau Eraill y LlywodraethFunctions Carried out by Other Government Departments
- 19Datganiad ar y Llifogydd yng NghymruStatement on Flooding in Wales
- 34Pwyntiau o DrefnPoints of Order
- 36Datganiad BusnesBusiness Statement
- 38Gorchymyn Deddf Safonau Gofal 2000 (Cychwyn Rhif 1) (Cymru) 2000The Care Standards Act 2000 (Commencement No. 1) (Wales) Order 2000 2 o bleidleisiau2 votes
- 47Cymeradwyo Rheoliadau Addysg (Gwahardd o’r Ysgol) (Cyfnodau Rhagnodedig) (Cymru) 2000Approval of the Education (Exclusion from Schools) (Prescribed Periods) (Wales) Regulations 2000 1 bleidlais1 vote
- 48Dadl ar y Gorchmynion IechydDebate on the Health Orders 2 o bleidleisiau2 votes
- 68Cymeradwyo Rheoliadau Trefniadau Partneriaeth Cyrff Gwasanaeth Iechyd Gwladol ac Awdurdodau Lleol (Cymru) 2000Approval of the National Health Service Bodies and Local Authorities Partnership Arrangements (Wales) Regulations 2000 2 o bleidleisiau2 votes
- 70Pwynt o DrefnPoint of Order
- 71Cymeradwyo Gorchymyn Deddf Iechyd 1999 (Cychwyn Rhif 3) (Cymru) 2000Approval of the Health Act 1999 (Commencement No. 3) (Wales) Order 2000 2 o bleidleisiau2 votes
- 73Pwynt o DrefnPoint of Order
- 74Adroddiad Blynyddol Ombwdsmon y Gwasanaeth Iechyd (Cymru)The Annual Report of the Health Service Ombudsman (Wales) 2 o bleidleisiau2 votes
PleidleisiauVotes
TrafodionProceedings
Cyfarfu’r Cynulliad am 2 p.m. gyda’r Llywydd yn y Gadair.
The Assembly met at 2 p.m. with the Presiding Officer in the Chair.
Cwestiynau i Brif Weinidog Cymru
Questions to the First Minister
Cyfrifiad 2001
The 2001 Census
What discussions has the First Minister had with the Secretary of State for Wales to ensure there are clear instructions for the people of Wales to register that they are Welsh in the coming census? (OAQ7584)
Pa drafodaethau y mae Prif Weinidog Cymru wedi’u cael ag Ysgrifennydd Gwladol Cymru i sicrhau bod cyfarwyddiadau clir i bobl Cymru gofrestru eu bod yn Gymry yn y cyfrifiad nesaf? (OAQ7584)
Rhodri Morgan The First Minister spoken in English p. 3
Rhodri Morgan Prif Weinidog Cymru siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 3
Following a series of discussions with the Secretary of State for Wales and others, the national statistician, Len Cook, announced on 25 October that the Office of National Statistics will organise an advertising campaign in Wales that will be sufficient to alert everybody to the option of writing on the census form that they are Welsh. In addition, I understand that an information leaflet containing advice for those who wish to use that option will be delivered with every census form in Wales.
Yn dilyn cyfres o drafodaethau ag Ysgrifennydd Gwladol Cymru ac eraill, datganodd yr ystadegydd cenedlaethol, Len Cook, ar 25 Hydref y bydd y Swyddfa Ystadegau Gwladol yn trefnu ymgyrch hysbysebu yng Nghymru a fydd yn ddigon i hysbysu pawb o’r opsiwn o ysgrifennu ar ffurflen y cyfrifiad eu bod yn Gymry. Yn ogystal, deallaf y dosberthir taflen wybodaeth yn cynnwys cyngor ar gyfer y rhai hynny sydd yn dymuno defnyddio’r opsiwn hwnnw gyda phob ffurflen cyfrifiad yng Nghymru.
Do you not agree that this has been a monumental mistake when the question could have simply been included in the form? Advice was given and disregarded on that fact. Is this advertising campaign not a complete waste of money? Overprinting the existing forms should be sufficient.
Oni chytunwch y bu hyn yn gamgymeriad enbyd pan y gellid bod wedi cynnwys y cwestiwn ar y ffurflen? Rhoddwyd cyngor ar y ffaith honno ond fe’i diystyrwyd. Onid gwastraff arian llwyr yw’r ymgyrch hysbysebu hon? Byddai trosargraffu’r ffurflenni presennol wedi bod yn ddigonol.
Rhodri Morgan The First Minister spoken in English p. 3
Rhodri Morgan Prif Weinidog Cymru siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 3
Overprinting the existing forms is not practical because they will be machine-read. The forms that have already been printed could only be pulped and completely reprinted with different questions. You cannot have an overprinted section with machine-reading because the instructions have already been set up, the software has already been purchased and the machine-reading technology could only be used if the entire form was pulped and reprinted at a cost of some £2.5 million. We have investigated every practical solution to the problem that emerged late in the day after the last minute addition to the Scottish census form. If that had come to light during the pilots or the dress rehearsal, we could have done something about it. If the Scottish addition—which was made at the last minute to the Scottish form—had emerged earlier, and the public concern in Wales had emerged earlier before the printing, we could have done something about it, although I would not have wanted it to go down the same route as the one chosen by the Scottish people. That has raised difficult equal opportunities issues on the different treatment of black and white Scottish people. However, in general, having reached the point where the forms have gone to print, the proposed solution is the best practical outcome that we can get, given the timing and given that none of us has the advantage of hindsight and can wind the video of life back to earlier this year when the forms could have been printed differently, as we might have wished.
Nid yw trosargraffu’r ffurflenni presennol yn ymarferol oherwydd fe’u darllennir gan beiriant. Byddai wedi bod yn rhaid cael gwared ar y ffurflenni a argraffwyd eisoes a’u hailargraffu â chwestiynau gwahanol. Ni ellir cael adran wedi’i throsargraffu pan fyddir yn darllen â pheiriant oherwydd nodwyd y cyfarwyddiadau eisoes, prynwyd y feddalwedd eisoes a dim ond os ceid gwared ar y ffurflen gyfan a’i hailargraffu ar gost o tua £2.5 miliwn y gellid defnyddio’r dechnoleg darllen â pheiriant. Yr ydym wedi ymchwilio i bob ateb ymarferol i’r broblem a ddaeth i’r amlwg yn hwyr yn y dydd ar ôl yr ychwanegiad munud olaf i ffurflen cyfrifiad yr Alban. Pe byddai hynny wedi dod i’r amlwg yn ystod y cynlluniau peilot neu’r ymarfer, gallem fod wedi gwneud rhywbeth ynglŷn â’r peth. Pe byddai ychwanegiad yr Alban—a wnaethpwyd yn y munud olaf i ffurflen yr Alban—wedi dod i’r amlwg yn gynharach, a phe byddai pryder y cyhoedd yng Nghymru wedi dod i’r amlwg yn gynharach cyn yr argraffu, gallem fod wedi gwneud rhywbeth am y peth, er na fyddwn am iddo ddilyn yr un trywydd â’r un a ddewiswyd gan bobl yr Alban. Mae hynny wedi codi materion cyfle cyfartal anodd ar drin pobl ddu a gwyn yr Alban yn wahanol. Fodd bynnag, yn gyffredinol, ar ôl cyrraedd y pwynt lle mae’r ffurflenni wedi mynd i gael eu hargraffu, yr ateb a gynigiwyd yw’r canlyniad ymarferol gorau y gallwn ei gael, o ystyried yr amseru a’r ffaith nad oes yr un ohonom yn meddu ar synnwyr trannoeth nac yn gallu troi fideo bywyd yn ôl i adeg yn gynharach eleni pan ellid bod wedi argraffu’r ffurflenni yn wahanol, fel y gallem fod wedi dymuno gwneud.
The Liberal Democrats regret this omission. If overprinting cannot be done, would it not be cheaper to use the budget that has been made available to you to include a separate piece of paper with somebody’s identifying number on it and allow people to tick a box on that separate piece of paper? I appreciate the comments about overprinting, but can we not simply add one more sheet of paper to the bundle that will be sent out?
Mae’n flin gan y Democratiaid Rhyddfrydol am yr hepgoriad hwn. Os na ellir trosargraffu’r ffurflenni, oni fyddai’n rhatach defnyddio’r gyllideb a ddarparwyd i chi i gynnwys darn o bapur ar wahân gyda rhif adnabod rhywun arno a chaniatáu i bobl dicio blwch ar y darn hwnnw o bapur? Gwerthfawrogaf y sylwadau am drosargraffu’r ffurflen, ond oni allwn ychwanegu un ddalen arall o bapur i’r bwndel a anfonir allan?
Rhodri Morgan The First Minister spoken in English p. 4
Rhodri Morgan Prif Weinidog Cymru siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 4
An information leaflet, with the purpose you suggest, will be delivered with every census form. In effect, the issue of people wishing to identify themselves as Welsh will be raised. Even though there will be no tick box, they can write the word ‘Welsh’ and it will be recorded and a special census report will be prepared accordingly.
Dosberthir taflen wybodaeth, â’r diben a gynigiwyd gennych, gyda phob ffurflen cyfrifiad. Mewn gwirionedd, caiff y mater o bobl yn dymuno nodi eu bod yn Gymry ei godi. Er na fydd blwch ticio, gallant ysgrifennu ‘Cymro’ neu ‘Cymraes’ a chaiff ei gofnodi a chaiff adroddiad cyfrifiad arbennig ei baratoi o ganlyniad i hynny.
Egwyddorion ‘Gwellcymru.com’
The Principles in ‘Betterwales.com’
A wnaiff Prif Weinidog Cymru roi ei addewid i’r Cynulliad y bydd yr egwyddorion y cytunwyd arnynt yn y rhagair i ‘Gwellcymru.com’ yn cael eu gwireddu? (OAQ7576)
Will the First Minister assure the Assembly that the principles agreed in the foreword of ‘Betterwales.com’ are being followed through? (OAQ7576)
Rhodri Morgan Prif Weinidog Cymru siaradwyd yn Gymraeg t. 5
Rhodri Morgan The First Minister spoken in Welsh p. 5
Yr ydym yn camu ymlaen i gyflawni’r blaenoriaethau sydd yn y rhagair i ‘Gwellcymru.com’. Mae llawer o gamau wedi’u cymryd yn barod. Er enghraifft, mae’r ddogfen ‘Rhoi Cymunedau’n Gyntaf’ wedi cael ei lansio a bydd yn cyrraedd tua 100 o’r cymunedau mwyaf difreintiedig yng Nghymru. Yr ydym hefyd wedi sefydlu pwerau’r Comisiynydd Plant annibynnol. Yr ydym yn adolygu’r strategaethau ar gyfer plant a phobl ifanc, y gwasanaeth iechyd gwladol, tai ac amaethyddiaeth.
We are making progress in fulfilling the priorities set out in the foreword to ‘Betterwales.com’. Many steps have already been taken. For example, the ‘Communities First’ document has been launched and it will reach about 100 of the most deprived communities in Wales. We have also established the powers of the independent Children’s Commissioner. We are reviewing the strategies for children and young people, the national health service, housing and agriculture.
Mae gennyf gwestiwn arbennig ynglŷn â phwynt 12 yn y rhagarweiniad, sydd yn cynnwys ymrwymiad i ddatblygu fframwaith gorfodol ar gyfer cynllunio ac ar gyfer datblygu ynni cynaliadwy. Pryd y bydd y weinyddiaeth yn cwblhau’r gwaith allweddol hwn? Yn y cyfamser, a yw Prif Weinidog Cymru’n fodlon cael gair yng nghlust y Gweinidog dros yr Amgylchedd, sydd a’i bryd, i bob golwg, ar danseilio’r diwydiant ynni adnewyddadwy Cymreig? Mae wedi galw i mewn ddau gynllun pwysig ar gyfer ffermydd gwynt sydd wedi cael cefnogaeth gadarn gan awdurdodau lleol. Sut mae Prif Weinidog Cymru yn cysoni ei gweithredoedd hi â’r ddyletswydd i hyrwyddo datblygu cynaliadwy?
I have a specific question about point 12 in the introduction, which contains a commitment to develop a mandatory framework for planning and for developing sustainable energy. When will the administration complete this key work? In the meantime, is the First Minister willing to have a quiet word with the Minister for Environment who is intent, it seems, on undermining the sustainable energy industry in Wales? She has called in two important plans for wind farms that have received strong support from local authorities. How does the First Minister reconcile her actions with the duty to promote sustainable development?
Rhodri Morgan Prif Weinidog Cymru siaradwyd yn Gymraeg t. 5
Rhodri Morgan The First Minister spoken in Welsh p. 5
A ydych yn cyfeirio at bwynt 12 yn ‘Gwellcymru.com’ neu bwynt 12 yn y rhagair?
Are you referring to point 12 in ‘Betterwales.com’ or point 12 in the foreword?
Cyfeiriaf at bwynt 12 yn y rhagarweiniad.
I refer to point 12 in the introduction.
Rhodri Morgan Prif Weinidog Cymru siaradwyd yn Gymraeg t. 5
Rhodri Morgan The First Minister spoken in Welsh p. 5
Ymddiheuraf, gan mai dim ond y rhagair sydd ger fy mron.
I apologise, as I only have the foreword in front of me.
Nid yw ein hymrwymiad i ddatblygu cynaliadwy yn golygu y bydd unrhyw aelod o’r Cabinet sydd yn gyfrifol am y materion hyn yn dilyn dymuniadau unrhyw sector o ddiwydiant neu unrhyw fudiad gwirfoddol ynglŷn â mater penodol, er enghraifft, caniatâd cynllunio ar gyfer ffermydd gwynt. Ni fyddant yn cael popeth y mae arnynt ei eisiau bob tro. Felly, ni allaf farnu a mynd yn groes i benderfyniad Sue Essex ynglŷn â galw i mewn y cynigion hyn ar gyfer caniatâd cynllunio. Nid yw’n deg i Cynog feddwl, os ydych yn ymrwymo eich hunan, fel Llywodraeth, i ddatblygu cynaliadwy fel egwyddor, fod hynny’n golygu y derbynnir pob cais am ganiatâd cynllunio ar gyfer fferm wynt yn syth heb ei alw mewn. Nid yw hynny yr un peth o gwbl.
Our commitment to sustainable development does not mean that any member of the Cabinet who is responsible for these issues will follow the wishes of any sector of industry or any voluntary organisation relating to a specific issue, for example, planning permission for wind farms. They will not always get everything they want. Therefore, I cannot judge and act contrary to what Sue Essex has decided as regards calling in these proposals for planning permission. It is not fair for Cynog to think that if, as a Government, you commit yourself to sustainable development as a principle, that means that every application for planning permission for a wind farm will be automatically granted without being called in. That is not the same thing at all.
Newid Teitlau Aelodau’r Cabinet
Changing Cabinet Members’ Titles
Q3 Nick Bourne The Leader of the Welsh Conservatives spoken in English p. 6
C3 Nick Bourne Arweinydd y Ceidwadwyr Cymreig siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 6
Can the First Minister make a statement on the reason behind the change of title of his Cabinet members from ‘Assembly Secretaries’ to ‘Assembly Ministers’? (OAQ7566)
A all Prif Weinidog Cymru wneud datganiad ar y rheswm pam y newidiwyd teitlau aelodau ei Gabinet o ‘Ysgrifenyddion Cynulliad’ i ‘Weinidogion Cynulliad’? (OAQ7566)
Rhodri Morgan The First Minister spoken in English p. 6
Rhodri Morgan Prif Weinidog Cymru siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 6
As I said in Plenary on 17 October, the change of title better reflects our responsibilities as Ministers. It is better understood by the public and avoids confusion with officials’ titles containing the word ‘secretary’. I noted the criticism that Nigel Evans, the Conservative spokesman on Welsh affairs, made in the House of Commons. However, I also noticed that he was among those who proposed an amendment in the Committee stage of the proceedings of the Government of Wales Act 1998, which proposed the dropping of the title ‘Assembly Secretaries’ and its replacement with ‘Assembly Ministers’.
Fel y dywedais yn y Cyfarfod Llawn ar 17 Hydref, adlewyrcha’r newid teitl ein cyfrifoldebau fel Gweinidogion yn well. Caiff ei ddeall yn well gan y cyhoedd ac mae’n osgoi cymysgu’r teitlau â theitlau swyddogion sydd yn cynnwys y gair ‘ysgrifennydd’. Nodais y feirniadaeth a wnaeth Nigel Evans, llefarydd y Ceidwadwyr ar faterion Cymreig, yn Nhŷ’r Cyffredin. Fodd bynnag, nodais hefyd ei fod ymysg y rhai hynny a gynigiodd ddiwygiad yng ngham Pwyllgor trafodion Deddf Llywodraeth Cymru 1998, a gynigiodd gael gwared ar y teitl ‘Ysgrifenyddion Cynulliad’ a defnyddio ‘Gweinidogion Cynulliad’ yn ei le.
I have no difficulty with the change of titles, therefore your response anticipated a different question. However, I have difficulty with the fact that you indicated that there would be an Assembly review to consider these issues starting in September. Why, therefore, has this change pre-empted the review that should have started two months ago?
Ni châf anhawster â’r newid teitlau, felly yr oedd eich ymateb yn rhagweld cwestiwn gwahanol. Fodd bynnag, câf anhawster â’r ffaith eich bod wedi nodi y cynhelir adolygiad gan y Cynulliad i ystyried y materion hyn i ddechrau ym mis Medi. Felly, pam bod y newid hwn wedi’i wneud cyn yr arolwg a ddylai fod wedi dechrau ddau fis yn ôl?
Rhodri Morgan The First Minister spoken in English p. 7
Rhodri Morgan Prif Weinidog Cymru siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 7
I agree that the review should have begun two months ago. The difficulty has been in arranging a date on which Nick, Mike, Ieuan, the Presiding Officer and I can meet to commence the review. I do not think that my diary has been any more difficult than anyone else’s diary. It has been extremely difficult to arrange for the review to commence. It is a tragedy, but we can discuss this matter when the party leaders meet tomorrow morning.
Cytunaf y dylai’r adolygiad fod wedi dechrau ddau fis yn ôl. Cafwyd anhawster trefnu dyddiad y gallai Nick, Mike, Ieuan, y Llywydd a minnau gyfarfod i ddechrau’r adolygiad. Ni chredaf i’m dyddiadur i fod yn anoddach na dyddiadur unrhyw un arall. Bu’n anodd tu hwnt trefnu i’r adolygiad ddechrau. Mae’n drasiedi, ond gallwn drafod y mater hwn pan fydd arweinwyr y pleidiau yn cwrdd bore yfory.
I have not asked a question on this issue as party leader. Question 3 was my question anyway.
Ni ofynnais gwestiwn ar y mater hwn fel yr arweinydd plaid. Fy nghwestiwn i oedd cwestiwn 3 beth bynnag.
Dafydd Elis-Thomas The Presiding Officer spoken in English p. 7
Dafydd Elis-Thomas Y Llywydd siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 7
Order. I call Members when we are on time and in order.
Trefn. Galwaf ar Aelodau pan fyddwn ar amser ac mewn trefn.
In the interest of open government, will the First Minister agree to publish the resources, including details of staff, that are devoted to each of his Ministers so that they can carry out their duties? Therefore, we can keep a check on the cost of the coalition Cabinet.
Er budd llywodraeth agored, a gytuna’r Prif Weinidog i gyhoeddi’r adnoddau, yn cynnwys manylion staff, a neilltuir i bob un o’i Weinidogion fel y gallant gyflawni eu dylestwyddau? Felly, gallwn gadw golwg ar gost Cabinet y glymblaid.
Rhodri Morgan The First Minister spoken in English p. 7
Rhodri Morgan Prif Weinidog Cymru siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 7
If you could be a little more precise, I am sure that I could meet all reasonable requests for information about the cost of running the Assembly Cabinet. I cannot see a problem with that if you could write to me with details of the information that you want.
Os gallech fod ychydig yn fwy manwl, yr wyf yn siŵr y gallwn gwrdd â phob gofyniad rhesymol am wybodaeth ar gost rhedeg Cabinet y Cynulliad. Ni welaf broblem gyda hynny os gallech ysgrifennu ataf â manylion y wybodaeth sydd ei hangen arnoch.
Datblygu Protocol ar Ryddid Gwybodaeth
Developing a Protocol on Freedom of Information
What steps have been taken to develop a protocol on freedom of information for the National Assembly as a whole? (OAQ7564)
Pa gamau sydd wedi’u cymryd i ddatblygu protocol ar ryddid gwybodaeth ar gyfer y Cynulliad Cenedlaethol i gyd? (OAQ7564)
Rhodri Morgan The First Minister spoken in English p. 7
Rhodri Morgan Prif Weinidog Cymru siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 7
We plan to put a revised code before the Assembly by the end of this year. Mick, you will probably remember that the Assembly adopted its code of practice on public access to information in May 1999. However, following my statement in March 2000, work has begun on reviewing that code and we will come back to the Assembly with a proposed review by the end of the year.
Bwriadwn gyflwyno côd diwygiedig gerbron y Cynulliad erbyn diwedd y flwyddyn hon. Mick, fe gofiwch mae’n debyg i’r Cynulliad fabwysiadu ei god ymarfer ar ganiatáu’r cyhoedd i weld gwybodaeth ym Mai 1999. Fodd bynnag, yn dilyn fy natganiad ym mis Mawrth 2000, dechreuwyd gwaith ar adolygu’r côd hwnnw a byddwn yn dychwelyd i’r Cynulliad ag adolygiad arfaethedig erbyn diwedd y flwyddyn.
Does the First Minister agree that had we had such a protocol on the freedom of information that Welsh advice about BSE would not have been ignored?
A gytuna’r Prif Weinidog na fyddai cyngor Cymreig ar BSE wedi’i anwybyddu pe byddem wedi cael protocol o’r fath ar ryddid gwybodaeth?
Rhodri Morgan The First Minister spoken in English p. 8
Rhodri Morgan Prif Weinidog Cymru siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 8
Everybody has lessons to learn from the BSE and new variant CJD scandal. Whitehall should have listened more to Dame Deirdre Hine and other advice from the Welsh Office. There is a lesson for everybody in the Whitehall machine that the Welsh are not always wrong. Denial of information under the old pre-devolution system, in which in effect everybody was bound by Cabinet collective responsibility, would not now apply because civil servants in Wales are not bound by Cabinet collective responsibility in Whitehall. Any attempt to clamp down on the kind of warnings that were being given by Dame Deirdre Hine, about ten years ago would not be possible now. Therefore, to that extent, I agree with the principle of what you are saying.
Mae gan bawb wersi i’w dysgu o’r sgandal BSE a’r amrywiolyn newydd CJD. Dylai Whitehall fod wedi gwrando mwy ar Fonesig Deirdre Hine a chyngor arall gan y Swyddfa Gymreig. Mae gwers i bawb ym mheiriant Whitehall nad yw’r Cymry’n anghywir bob tro. Ni fyddai gwadu gwybodaeth o dan yr hen system cyn datganoli, pan oedd pawb mewn gwirionedd yn gaeth i gydgyfrifoldeb y Cabinet, yn berthnasol bellach oherwydd nid yw gweision sifil yng Nghymru yn gaeth i gydgyfrifoldeb y Cabinet yn Whitehall. Ni fyddai unrhyw ymdrechion i wahardd y math o rybuddion a roddwyd gan y Fonesig Deirdre Hine tua deng mlynedd yn ôl yn bosibl yn awr. Felly, i’r graddau hynny, cytunaf ag egwyddor yr hyn a ddywedwch.
We are all supportive of the concept of freedom of information and open government. Does the First Minister agree that any changes in local authorities’ structure arising from our discussions with them should not lead to greater secrecy in the way in which they conduct their business, which is presently widely feared?
Yr ydym oll yn gefnogol o’r cysyniad o ryddid gwybodaeth a llywodraeth agored. A gytuna’r Prif Weinidog na ddylai unrhyw newidiadau yn strwythur awdurdodau lleol sydd yn deillio o’n trafodaethau â hwy arwain at fwy o gyfrinachedd yn y modd y maent yn gweithredu eu busnes, a ofnir yn gyffredinol ar hyn o bryd?
Rhodri Morgan The First Minister spoken in English p. 8
Rhodri Morgan Prif Weinidog Cymru siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 8
I accept the principle behind your question, Glyn. I am not a control freak. I will not order local authorities to do as I or anybody else in the Cabinet says. We do not give them mandatory instructions. I hope that if we set the standard in terms of publication such as Cabinet minutes—and that was the best standard in the four central government institutions, Whitehall, the Scottish Parliament, Northern Ireland Assembly and ourselves—that would set the tone for other public bodies in Wales including local government, even though they do not have to follow our instructions.
Derbyniaf yr egwyddor y tu ôl i’ch cwestiwn, Glyn. Nid wyf yn unben rheoli. Ni orchmynaf i awdurdodau lleol wneud yn ôl yr hyn a ddywedaf i nag unrhyw un arall yn y Cabinet. Ni roddwn gyfarwyddiadau gorfodol iddynt. Gobeithiaf os gosodwn y safon yn nhermau cyhoeddiadau megis cofnodion y Cabinet—a hynny oedd y safon gorau yn y pedwar sefydliad llywodraeth ganolog, Whitehall, Senedd yr Alban, Cynulliad Gogledd Iwerddon a ninnau—y byddai hynny’n gosod y safon ar gyfer cyrff cyhoeddus eraill yng Nghymru gan gynnwys llywodraeth leol, er nad oes rhaid iddynt ddilyn ein cyfarwyddiadau.
Swyddogaeth y Gweinidog sydd yn Gyfrifol am y Gymraeg
The Role of the Minister Responsible for the Welsh Language
A wnaiff Prif Weinidog Cymru ddatganiad ynghylch union swyddogaeth y Gweinidog sydd yn gyfrifol am y Gymraeg yn y Cynulliad wedi’r aildrefnu ar y Cabinet ac esbonio arwyddocâd y newid yng nghylch gwaith y Gweinidog hwnnw? (OAQ7585)
Will the First Minister make a statement regarding the exact role of the Minister responsible for the Welsh language in the Assembly following the Cabinet reshuffle and explain the significance of the change to the remit of that Minister? (OAQ7585)
Rhodri Morgan Prif Weinidog Cymru siaradwyd yn Gymraeg t. 9
Rhodri Morgan The First Minster spoken in Welsh p. 9
Jenny Randerson yw’r Gweinidog sydd â chyfrifoldeb am bolisi’r iaith Gymraeg ac ariannu Bwrdd yr Iaith Gymraeg. Er mwyn pwysleisio hynny, penderfynodd hi a minnau y bydd ei theitl yn newid i’r Gweinidog dros Ddiwylliant, Chwaraeon a’r Iaith Gymraeg. Yn ogystal, mae ei phortffolio a’i chyfrifoldebau yn cynnwys ieithoedd eraill a siaredir yng Nghymru. Mae hynny’n adlewyrchu ysbryd adroddiad y Pwyllgor Addysg a Hyfforddiant Ôl-16, ‘Diwylliant Cytûn’, ar ein polisi diwylliannol yng Nghymru, sydd yn pwysleisio’r amrywiaeth o ddiwylliannau yn y Gymru gyfoes.
Jenny Randerson is the Minister with responsibility for the Welsh language policy and the funding of the Welsh Language Board. To emphasise that, she and I have decided that her title will change to the Minister for Culture, Sport and the Welsh Language. In addition, her portfolio and responsibilities include other languages spoken in Wales. That reflects the spirit of the Post-16 Education and Training Committee report, ‘A Culture in Common’, on our cultural policy in Wales, which emphasises the diversity of cultures in contemporary Wales
Croesawaf ei ymateb positif i’m sylwadau ar ei gynnig gwreiddiol i ddiraddio statws y Gymraeg. Bydd yn rhaid i’r Gweinidog newydd arwain y ffordd i wireddu bwriad y Cynulliad Cenedlaethol o greu Cymru ddwyieithog. A fydd yn ei hannog i normaleiddio’r defnydd o’r Gymraeg yn y Cynulliad?
I welcome his positive reaction to my remarks on his initial intention to degrade the status of Welsh language. The new Minister must lead the way to realise the National Assembly’s intention to create a bilingual Wales. Will he encourage her to normalise the use of the Welsh language in the Assembly?
Rhodri Morgan Prif Weinidog Cymru siaradwyd yn Gymraeg t. 9
Rhodri Morgan The First Minister spoken in Welsh p. 9
Nid mater i mi yw Rheolau Sefydlog y Cynulliad, ond i’r Llywydd. Nid wyf yn sicr beth yw cwynion Owen John wrth sarhau Rheolau Sefydlog a chonfensiynau’r Cynulliad.
The Assembly’s Standing Orders are not a matter for me, but for the Presiding Officer. I am not sure what Owen John’s complaints are in insulting the Assembly’s Standing Orders and conventions.
A wnaiff y Prif Weinidog ateb y cwestiwn yn blwmp ac yn blaen, am unwaith? Pa ieithoedd yn arbennig y mae’r Gweinidog yn gyfrifol amdanynt? Beth yn union yw’r cyfrifoldeb am yr ieithoedd lleiafrifol? A fydd arian newydd ar gyfer y cyfrifoldeb newydd hwn neu a fydd arian yn cael ei drosglwyddo o’r ddwy iaith arall?
Will the First Minister answer the question fairly and squarely, for once? For which languages in particular is the Minister responsible? What exactly is the responsibility for the minority languages? Will there be any new funding for this new responsibility or will funding be transferred from the other two languages?
Rhodri Morgan Prif Weinidog Cymru siaradwyd yn Gymraeg t. 10
Rhodri Morgan The First Minister spoken in Welsh p. 10
O ran ateb yn blwmp ac yn blaen, nid wyf yn sicr am beth y mae Rod yn cwyno. Mae’n glir fod cyfrifoldeb Jenny Randerson yn cynnwys noddi’r cwango, sef Bwrdd yr Iaith Gymraeg, y corff cyhoeddus a sefydlwyd o dan y Llywodraeth flaenorol yr oedd Rod yn aelod ohoni. Gan ei bod yn gyfrifol am Bwrdd yr Iaith Gymraeg, mae felly yn gyfrifol am yr iaith Gymraeg yn uniongyrchol a thrwy’r bwrdd.
On answering fairly and squarely, I am not sure what Rod is complaining about. It is clear that Jenny Randerson’s responsibility includes sponsorship of the quango, namely the Welsh Language Board, the public body that was established by the previous Government of which Rod was a member. As she is responsible for the Welsh Language Board, she is, therefore, responsible for the Welsh language directly and through the board.
O ran cwestiynau eraill Rod, mae portffolio diwylliannol Jenny yn cynnwys cyfrifoldeb am hyrwyddo’r ieithoedd a’r diwylliannau lleiafrifol eraill yng Nghymru a diwylliant a llenyddiaeth yn yr iaith Saesneg. Os nad ydwyf wedi ateb eich cwestiynau, ysgrifennwch ataf gan restru eich cwynion a bydd Jenny neu finnau yn eich ateb.
On Rod’s other questions, Jenny’s cultural portfolio includes responsibility for promoting the other minority languages and cultures in Wales and culture and literature in the English language. If I have not answered your questions, please write to me listing your complaints and Jenny or I will answer you.
Datblygiad Polisïau a’r Ddogfen ‘Rhoi Cymru’n Gyntaf’
Policy Development and the ‘Putting Wales First’ Document
Will the First Minister outline how the overall policy development of the Assembly has been affected by the adoption of ‘Putting Wales First’? (OAQ7572)
A wnaiff Prif Weinidog Cymru amlinellu sut y mae mabwysiadu ‘Rhoi Cymru’n Gyntaf’ wedi effeithio ar ddatblygiad polisïau’r Cynulliad yn gyffredinol? (OAQ7572)
Rhodri Morgan The First Minister spoken in English p. 10
Rhodri Morgan Prif Weinidog Cymru siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 10
The partnership Government has committed itself to the three guiding themes agreed by the Assembly in Plenary, namely, sustainable development, tackling social disadvantage and equal opportunities. The agreement that led to ‘Putting Wales First’ contains many initiatives that are designed to further those themes. They will be incorporated into a revised ‘Betterwales.com’, a draft version of which, I hope, will come before the Assembly next month with a view to its adoption after debate here in March 2001.
Mae’r Llywodraeth bartneriaeth wedi ymrwymo ei hun i’r tair thema arweiniol y cytunwyd arnynt gan y Cynulliad mewn Cyfarfod Llawn, sef, datblygiad cynaliadwy, mynd i’r afael ag anfantais gymdeithasol a chyfle cyfartal. Mae’r cytundeb a arweiniodd at ‘Rhoi Cymru’n Gyntaf’ yn cynnwys llawer o fentrau a gynlluniwyd i hyrwyddo’r themâu hynny. Cânt eu hymgorffori i fersiwn ddiwygiedig o ‘Gwellcymru.com’, y gobeithiaf y daw fersiwn ddrafft ohono gerbron y Cynulliad fis nesaf gyda’r bwriad o’i fabwysiadu yn dilyn dadl yma ym Mawrth 2001.
Is your administration still committed to reducing waiting lists to 65,000 for in-patients by March 2001? If so, why was that commitment left out of this vital document?
A yw eich gweinyddiaeth yn dal yn ymrwymedig i leihau rhestrau aros i 65,000 ar gyfer cleifion mewnol erbyn Mawrth 2001? Os felly, pam y gadawyd yr ymrwymiad hwnnw allan o’r ddogfen hanfodol hon?
Rhodri Morgan The First Minister spoken in English p. 11
Rhodri Morgan Prif Weinidog Cymru siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 11
I will write to the Member about that, because I am not clear as to the level of detail in ‘Putting Wales First’ and why that commitment was not included, if, as you say, it was included in ‘Betterwales.com’. I assure David that either Jane Hutt or I will write to him about that.
Ysgrifennaf at yr Aelod ynglŷn â hynny, oherwydd nid wyf yn glir am lefel y manylion yn ‘Rhoi Cymru’n Gyntaf’ a pham na chafodd yr ymrwymiad hwn ei gynnwys, os y cafodd ei gynnwys, fel y dywedwch, yn ‘Gwellcymru.com’. Gallaf sicrhau David y byddaf i neu Jane Hutt yn ysgrifennu ato ynglŷn â hynny.
Do you agree that the partnership agreement ‘Putting Wales First’ along with ‘Betterwales.com’ forms a policy document for the Assembly that can carry forward devolution in Wales and deliver the policies that the people of Wales need for the twenty-first century?
A gytunwch bod y cytundeb partneriaeth ‘Rhoi Cymru’n Gyntaf’ ynghyd â ‘Gwellcymru.com’ yn ffurfio dogfen bolisi ar gyfer y Cynulliad a all ddatblygu datganoli yng Nghymru a chyflwyno’r polisïau sydd eu hangen ar bobl Cymru ar gyfer yr unfed ganrif ar hugain?
Rhodri Morgan The First Minister spoken in English p. 11
Rhodri Morgan Prif Weinidog Cymru siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 11
That is the purpose behind it. Members of the parties that are not in the partnership, namely, the Conservatives and Plaid Cymru, recognise that there are advantages to having a majority-based Government. They will not be happy about some of the partnership’s outcomes, but I think that they recognise that one of the advantages for the people of Wales is that there is a majority-based Government. If the Government signs up to a document, it has the vote, in principle, to ensure that those policies are delivered and measured by whether or not those policies make sense to the people of Wales. If the people of Wales do not like it, the election result will reflect that. If they do, the election result will go our way, which is what we hope and expect on our side of the Chamber.
Dyna bwrpas y ddogfen. Mae aelodau’r pleidiau nad ydynt yn y bartneriaeth, sef y Ceidwadwyr a Phlaid Cymru, yn cydnabod bod manteision o gael Llywodraeth sydd yn seiliedig ar fwyafrif. Ni fyddant yn fodlon ynghylch rhai o ganlyniadau’r bartneriaeth, ond credaf eu bod yn cydnabod mai un o’r manteision i bobl Cymru yw bod gennym Lywodraeth sydd yn seiliedig ar fwyafrif. Os bydd y Llywodraeth yn cytuno ar ddogfen, mae ganddi’r bleidlais, o ran egwyddor, i sicrhau y caiff y polisïau hynny eu cyflwyno a’u mesur yn ôl pa un ai a fydd y polisïau hynny yn gwneud synnwyr i bobl Cymru ai peidio. Os na fydd pobl Cymru’n hoffi hyn, bydd canlyniad yr etholiad yn adlewyrchu hynny. Os byddant yn ei hoffi, aiff canlyniad yr etholiad o’n plaid, sef yr hyn a obeithiwn ac a ddisgwyliwn ar ein hochr ni o’r Siambr.
Datblygiad Polisïau a ‘Gwellcymru.com’
Policy Development and ‘Betterwales.com’
Will the First Minister make a statement on the overall policy development of the Assembly since the adoption of the ‘Betterwales.com’ plan? (OAQ7571)
A wnaiff Prif Weinidog Cymru ddatganiad ar ddatblygiad polisïau’r Cynulliad yn gyffredinol ers mabwysiadu’r cynllun ‘Gwellcymru.com’? (OAQ7571)
Rhodri Morgan The First Minister spoken in English p. 11
Rhodri Morgan Prif Weinidog Cymru siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 11
I will give you a short list. There has been distinctive legislation for the establishment of the Children’s Commissioner. We have contributed towards aspects of the Care Standards Bill, which has gone through Parliament. We have also contributed towards aspects of the Local Government Bill. The Council for Education and Training for Wales was established, which will start its work on 1 April 2001, along with Careers Wales and the revitalisation of services for young people. Following the comprehensive spending review, which gave unprecedented funding above the Barnett block, we have European structural programmes in place. We also have a rural development plan in place, and we are progressing with new strategies for national economic development in the NHS, in housing and in agriculture. We have new and improved programmes, such as Communities First, Sure Start and Children First, to address social deprivation.
Rhoddaf restr fer i chi. Bu deddfwriaeth arbennig ar gyfer sefydlu Comisiynydd Plant. Yr ydym wedi cyfrannu tuag at agweddau ar y Mesur Safonau Gofal, a aeth drwy’r Senedd. Yr ydym hefyd wedi cyfrannu tuag at agweddau ar y Mesur Llywodraeth Leol. Sefydlwyd Cyngor Cymru dros Addysg a Hyfforddiant, a fydd yn dechrau ar ei waith ar 1 Ebrill 2001, ynghyd â Gyrfaoedd Cymru ac adfywio gwasanaethau ar gyfer pobl ifanc. Yn dilyn yr adolygiad cynhwysfawr o wariant, a roddodd arian digynsail uwchben bloc Barnett, yr ydym wedi sefydlu rhaglenni strwythurol Ewropeaidd. Hefyd mae gennym gynllun datblygu gwledig mewn grym, ac yr ydym yn datblygu strategaethau newydd ar gyfer datblygiad economaidd cenedlaethol yn yr NHS, tai ac amaethyddiaeth. Mae gennym raglenni newydd a gwell, megis Rhoi Cymunedau’n Gyntaf, Cychwyn Cadarn a Plant yn Gyntaf, i ymdrin ag amddifadedd cymdeithasol.
The plan commits the Government to reducing class sizes. However, will you explain why you have presided over increases in class sizes and pupil-teacher ratios, particularly in secondary schools, in each and every year of your administration?
Mae’r cynllun yn ymrwymo’r Llywodraeth i leihau maint dosbarthiadau. Fodd bynnag, a esboniwch pam yr ydych wedi llywyddu dros gynnydd mewn maint dosbarthiadau a chymarebau disgybl-athro, yn arbennig mewn ysgolion uwchradd, ym mhob blwyddyn o’ch gweinyddiaeth?
Rhodri Morgan The First Minister spoken in English p. 12
Rhodri Morgan Prif Weinidog Cymru siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 12
I have not been in charge of an administration for ‘each and every year’; it may well be each and every month. I have not reached my first anniversary of being in charge of this administration.
Nid wyf wedi bod yn rheoli gweinyddiaeth ‘ym mhob blwyddyn’; gallai fod ar gyfer pob mis. Nid wyf wedi cael fy mhen-blwydd cyntaf o fod yn gyfrifol am y weinyddiaeth hon.
I hope that our commitment to spend £200 million over three years to improve school buildings, and £65 million on new teachers, will solve the problem to which he refers.
Gobeithiaf y bydd ein hymrwymiad i wario £200 miliwn dros dair blynedd i wella adeiladau ysgolion, a £65 miliwn ar athrawon newydd, yn datrys y broblem y cyfeiria ati.
It is noticeable that there is no commitment in ‘Betterwales.com’ to the Welsh baccalaureate, which is now included in the partnership agreement. Will you indicate what are the priorities of this administration?
Mae’n amlwg nad oes unrhyw ymrwymiad yn ‘Gwellcymru.com’ i fagloriaeth Gymreig, a gaiff ei chynnwys bellach yn y cytundeb partneriaeth. A nodwch beth yw blaenoriaethau’r weinyddiaeth hon?
Rhodri Morgan The First Minister spoken in English p. 12
Rhodri Morgan Prif Weinidog Cymru siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 12
I do not think that the change to which he refers was quite so big. There was reference to a Welsh baccalaureate pilot in ‘Betterwales.com’. I think that you will find that I am right about that. I am glad to see an Education Committee Chair nodding his head, as I do not have ‘Betterwales.com’ committed to heart. We are happy to try to engender a pilot. It may take three years to build the strength of a Welsh baccalaureate curriculum before it can be effectively offered to schools, so that any child who studies for a Welsh baccalaureate is not disadvantaged in terms of university entrance. That is a classic example of the principles in the ‘Putting Wales First’ partnership document evolving in a way that is consistent with the base set in ‘Betterwales.com’.
Ni chredaf fod y newid y cyfeiria ato mor fawr â hynny. Yr oedd cyfeiriad at gynllun peilot bagloriaeth yng Nghymru yn ‘Gwellcymru.com’. Credaf y byddwch yn canfod fy mod yn gywir ynghylch hynny. Yr wyf yn falch o weld Cadeirydd Pwyllgor Addysg yn nodio’i ben, gan nad wyf wedi dysgu cynnwys ‘Gwellcymru.com’ ar fy nghof. Yr ydym yn fodlon ceisio ennyn cynllun peilot. Gallai gymryd tair blynedd i adeiladu cryfder cwricwlwm bagloriaeth Gymreig cyn y gellir ei chynnig yn effeithiol i ysgolion, fel na fydd unrhyw blentyn sydd yn astudio ar gyfer bagloriaeth Gymreig o dan anfantais yn nhermau mynediad i brifysgol. Mae hynny’n esiampl berffaith o’r egwyddorion yn y ddogfen bartneriaeth ‘Rhoi Cymru’n Gyntaf’ yn esblygu mewn modd sydd yn gyson â’r sail a osodwyd yn ‘Gwellcymru.com’.
Polisïau’r Cynulliad a’r Cytundeb Partneriaeth
Assembly Policies and the Partnership Agreement
How will the First Minister ensure that the policies developed by the Assembly are consistent with the principles of the partnership agreement? (OAQ7586)
Sut y bydd Prif Weinidog Cymru yn sicrhau bod y polisïau sydd yn cael eu datblygu gan y Cynulliad yn gyson ag egwyddorion y cytundeb partneriaeth? (OAQ7586)
Rhodri Morgan The First Minister spoken in English p. 13
Rhodri Morgan Prif Weinidog Cymru siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 13
We are ensuring that the principles of the partnership agreement are integrated into the Assembly’s policy development. For instance, the draft budget announced last Thursday turns the partnership agreement into action, with record levels of spending on education and health. I mentioned some of those areas in answering Jonathan Morgan’s question, such as the allocation of increased funding, compared with the previous budget, for a Children’s Commissioner, and significant resources to combat social deprivation through Communities First. Assembly Committees have begun the consultation on revisions to ‘Betterwales.com’ to reflect those budget changes and to build on the ideas of the partnership agreement.
Yr ydym yn sicrhau bod egwyddorion y cytundeb partneriaeth wedi’u hintegreiddio i ddatblygiad polisi’r Cynulliad. Er enghraifft, mae’r gyllideb ddrafft a gyhoeddwyd ddydd Iau diwethaf yn troi’r cytundeb partneriaeth yn weithred, gyda’r lefelau uchaf erioed o wario ar addysg ac iechyd. Nodais rai o’r meysydd hynny wrth ateb cwestiwn Jonathan Morgan, megis dyrannu mwy o arian, o’i gymharu â’r gyllideb flaenorol, ar gyfer Comisiynydd Plant, ac adnoddau sylweddol i fynd i’r afael ag amddifadedd cymdeithasol drwy Rhoi Cymunedau’n Gyntaf. Mae Pwyllgorau’r Cynulliad wedi cychwyn ymgynghori ar ddiwygiadau i ‘Gwellcymru.com’ i adlewyrchu’r newidiadau hynny yn y gyllideb ac i adeiladu ar syniadau’r cytundeb partneriaeth.
The partnership agreement has meant a large increase in the budget for a Children’s Commissioner. The Assembly is unanimous in its support for giving the commissioner full powers over all aspects of children’s lives in Wales. The policies developed by the Assembly, and by the partnership agreement in this instance, depend on legislation introduced in Westminster. When will a Bill be introduced in Westminster to legislate for a Children’s Commissioner, in accordance with the will of the Assembly?
Mae’r cytundeb partneriaeth wedi golygu cynnydd mawr yn y gyllideb ar gyfer Comisiynydd Plant. Mae’r Cynulliad yn unfrydol yn ei gefnogaeth i roi pwerau llawn i’r comisiynydd ar gyfer pob agwedd ar fywydau plant yng Nghymru. Dibynna’r polisïau a ddatblygwyd gan y Cynulliad, a chan y cytundeb partneriaeth yn yr achos hwn, ar ddeddfwriaeth a gyflwynwyd yn San Steffan. Pryd y cyflwynir Mesur yn San Steffan i ddeddfu ar gyfer Comisiynydd Plant, yn unol ag ewyllys y Cynulliad?
Rhodri Morgan The First Minister spoken in English p. 14
Rhodri Morgan Prif Weinidog Cymru siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 14
The Queen’s Speech in another place—to use the arcane language of the Houses of Parliament—will be delivered on 6 December. I have not had the opportunity to peep over the Prime Minister’s shoulder to see its contents. We remain hopeful, and we have pressed hard for powers to be included in the Queen’s Speech to extend the powers of the Children’s Commissioner, so that it is similar to the Scandinavian model of a children’s ombudsman. We hope that it will be included in the Queen’s Speech but I cannot guarantee that that will happen. We will have to wait about 30 days to find out.
Cyflwynir Araith y Frenhines mewn lle arall—i ddefnyddio iaith ddirgel y Senedd—ar 6 Rhagfyr. Nid wyf wedi cael cyfle i gael cipolwg dros ysgwydd y Prif Weinidog i weld ei chynnwys. Parhawn i fod yn obeithiol, ac yr ydym wedi ymdrechu’n galed i gynnwys pwerau yn Araith y Frenhines i estyn pwerau’r Comisiynydd Plant, fel y bydd yn debyg i’r model Sganinafaidd o ombwdsmon plant. Gobeithiwn y caiff ei gynnwys yn Araith y Frenhines ond ni allaf warantu y bydd hynny’n digwydd. Bydd yn rhaid inni aros am tua 30 diwrnod cyn cael gwybod.
In discussions with colleagues in Westminster, what view has the partnership Government taken of the unjust manner in which occupational pension schemes are run and administered?
Mewn trafodaethau â chydweithwyr yn San Steffan, pa farn a gymerwyd gan y Llywodraeth bartneriaeth ar y modd anghyfiawn y caiff cynlluniau pensiwn galwedigaethol eu cynnal a’u gweinyddu?
Rhodri Morgan The First Minister spoken in English p. 14
Rhodri Morgan Prif Weinidog Cymru siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 14
I am not aware of any discussions in Westminster on occupational pension injustices. I would have liked to have had prior notice of that question, so that I could have found out whether such discussions have taken place. However, perhaps Helen Mary Jones could write to me to note the particular aspects of unfairness to which she refers and I will discuss them with the Department of Social Security or other relevant departments in Westminster.
Nid wyf yn ymwybodol o unrhyw drafodaethau yn San Steffan ar anghyfiawnderau pensiynau galwedigaethol. Hoffwn fod wedi cael rhybudd ymlaen llaw o’r cwestiwn hwnnw, fel y gallwn fod wedi canfod a gynhaliwyd trafodaethau o’r fath. Fodd bynnag, efallai y gallai Helen Mary Jones ysgrifennu ataf i nodi’r agweddau penodol o annhegwch y cyfeiria atynt a byddaf yn eu trafod â’r Adran Nawdd Cymdeithasol neu adrannau perthnasol eraill yn San Steffan.
Prosiect Telebentref Crycywel
The Crickhowell Tele-village Project
Will the First Minister make a statement on the Crickhowell tele-village project and its implications for the Assembly’s cross-cutting themes? (OAQ7569)
A wnaiff Prif Weinidog Cymru ddatganiad ar brosiect telebentref Crycywel a’i oblygiadau o safbwynt themâu trawsbynciol y Cynulliad? (OAQ7569)
Rhodri Morgan The First Minister spoken in English p. 15
Rhodri Morgan Prif Weinidog Cymru siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 15
It is difficult to do so because that is a commercial matter for the parties associated with the project. We have all read the press coverage about the tragic cul-de-sac into which this project has unfortunately run. We all would like to see such a tele-village project get off the ground because it would be a first for Wales and, possibly, a first for Europe. We want villages where people can work at home using a world-class broadband telecommunications infrastructure to undertake multi-media and internet work, or to establish e-businesses and so on. Unfortunately, the houses will be expensive. Crickhowell is an excellent place to try it out, but it is sad that it has not got off the ground. I am not sure why it was a commercial failure, but I do not think that the Assembly has been directly involved in the matter.
Mae’n anodd gwneud hynny oherwydd ei fod yn fater masnachol ar gyfer y pleidiau sydd yn gysylltiedig â’r prosiect. Mae pawb ohonom wedi darllen yr adroddiadau yn y wasg am y modd y mae’r prosiect hwn, yn anffodus, wedi troi i ffordd bengaead. Hoffai pawb ohonom weld prosiect telebentref o’r fath yn llwyddo oherwydd hwn fyddai’r prosiect cyntaf o’i fath yng Nghymru ac, o bosibl, yn Ewrop. Mae angen pentrefi arnom lle y gall pobl weithio gartref gan ddefnyddio rhwydwaith fewnol telathrebu band eang o’r radd flaenaf i ymgymryd â gwaith amlgyfrwng a rhyngrwyd, neu sefydlu e-fusnesau ac ati. Yn anffodus, bydd y tai yn ddrud. Mae Crycywel yn lle ardderchog i’w roi ar brawf, ond mae’n drist nad yw wedi llwyddo. Nid wyf yn siŵr pam y bu’n fethiant masnachol, ond ni chredaf y bu’r Cynulliad ynghlwm â’r mater yn uniongyrchol.
As sustainable development is a central theme of the Assembly, what lessons can be learnt from the failure of the project? Has the Assembly considered whether it may play a role in promoting such a world first project in the future, as part of our commitment to, and our creation of, a better Wales?
Gan fod datblygiad cynaliadwy yn thema ganolog i’r Cynulliad, pa wersi y gellir eu dysgu o fethiant y prosiect? A yw’r Cynulliad wedi ystyried pa un a allai chwarae rôl wrth hybu prosiect cyntaf o’i fath yn y byd yn y dyfodol, fel rhan o’n hymrwymiad i, ac wrth inni greu, Cymru well?
Rhodri Morgan The First Minister spoken in English p. 15
Rhodri Morgan Prif Weinidog Cymru siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 15
I agree that a tele-village project needs to be established somewhere in Wales. On this occasion, it appears that the developers did not get their act together to install the fibre optic network and the tele-centre or switch-in centre that would have been the hub of the village. That has left the residents without the state of the art home-working broadband facilities that attracted them to the project. Although limited tele-working takes place in the village, it is only through facilities such as e-mail and fax, which are generally available elsewhere. Therefore, it loses much of its advantage.
Cytunaf fod angen sefydlu prosiect telebentref rywle yng Nghymru. Yn yr achos hwn, ymddengys na lwyddodd y datblygwyr i osod rhwydwaith optig ffeibr a’r deleganolfan neu’r gyswlltganolfan a fyddai wedi bod yn ganolbwynt y pentref. Gadawodd hynny’r trigolion heb y cyfleusterau gweithio gartref band eang modern a ddenodd hwy at y prosiect. Er bod rhyw gymaint o deleweithio yn digwydd yn y pentref, dim ond drwy gyfleusterau megis e-bost a ffacs, sydd ar gael yn gyffredinol mewn lleoedd eraill, y digwydd hynny. Felly, colla lawer o’i fantais.
Getting this right and trying to use the facilities that Llwybr/Pathway might make available in certain areas to get one or two of these home-working, tele-working villages off the ground would be exciting. So far, this appears to have been a commercial failure, maybe because of a lack of capital or a lack of detailed technical knowledge by the developer.
Byddai gwneud hyn yn iawn a cheisio defnyddio’r cyfleusterau y gallai Llwybr/Pathway eu rhoi ar gael mewn ardaloedd penodol i sefydlu un neu ddau o’r pentrefi gweithio gartref, teleweithio hyn yn gyffrous. Hyd yn hyn, ymddengys i hyn fod yn fethiant masnachol, efallai oherwydd diffyg cyfalaf neu ddiffyg gwybodaeth dechnegol fanwl gan y datblygydd.
Considering Patricia Hewitt’s statement to the Confederation of British Industry conference yesterday that broadband communication would be essential for the proper exploitation of information and communications technology and that we should look beyond asymmetric digital subscriber line technology, what plans has the Government to ensure, in partnership with the private sector, that full and symmetric video band width links are available to every town in Wales in the near future? Also, when do you predict that that will be achieved?
O ystyried datganiad Patricia Hewitt i gynhadledd Cydffederasiwn Diwydiant Prydain ddoe y byddai cyfathrebu band eang yn hanfodol i ddefnyddio technoleg gwybodaeth a chyfathrebu i’r eithaf yn briodol ac y dylem edrych y tu hwnt i dechnoleg llinell danysgrifio ddigidol anghymesur, pa gynlluniau sydd gan y Llywodraeth i sicrhau, mewn partneriaeth â’r sector preifat, y bydd cysylltiadau lled band fideo cymesur a llawn ar gael i bob tref yng Nghymru yn y dyfodol agos? Hefyd, pryd y rhagwelwch y cyflawnir hyn?
Rhodri Morgan The First Minister spoken in English p. 16
Rhodri Morgan Prif Weinidog Cymru siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 16
Phil’s knowledge of subjects such as this is so much greater than mine that I have difficulty in answering. My general feeling is that, although Patricia Hewitt may have said that we should look beyond ADSL, I am not sure that she meant that we should vault across that stage and scrub the whole ADSL rollout, which has been remarkably slow. British Telecom has been subject to much criticism because it came under much regulatory pressure over the unbundling issue at the same time. I do not think that she meant that we should scrub ADSL and go straight to some giant 4 gigabit per second broadband technology, or whatever, throughout the whole telephone system. However, I accept that we must get the ADSL rollout speeded up.
Gan fod gwybodaeth Phil am bynciau fel hyn yn llawer ehangach na f’un i, caf drafferth ateb. Fy marn gyffredinol yw, er efallai bod Patricia Hewitt wedi dweud y dylem edrych y tu hwnt i ADSL, nid wyf yn siŵr ei bod yn golygu y dylem frysio i roi terfyn ar gyflwyno ADSL, a fu’n hynod o araf. Cafodd British Telecom lawer o feirniadaeth oherwydd iddo ddod o dan lawer o bwysau rheoleiddiol dros y mater ddadfwndlo ar yr un pryd. Ni chredaf ei bod yn golygu y dylem gael gwared ar ADSL a mynd yn syth at dechnoleg band eang anferth 4 gigabit yr eiliad, neu beth bynnag, drwy’r holl system ffôn. Fodd bynnag, derbyniaf fod yn rhaid i ni gyflymu’r broses o gyflwyno’r ADSL.
After that, you then turn your attention quickly towards broadband technology in general. The problem for us in Wales is that, frequently, the providers of advanced telecommunications infrastructure tend to work on a figure eight pattern. It begins in London, travels west as far as Bristol, back towards Birmingham, up through Leeds and Newcastle, around through Edinburgh and Glasgow and back down to Manchester and Birmingham, leaving out Wales altogether. It is important, whether we are talking about ADSL or another broadband system, to ensure that that figure eight pattern that leaves out Wales does not occur.
Wedi hynny, bydd rhywun yn troi ei sylw yn gyflym at dechnoleg band eang yn gyffredinol. Y broblem i ni yng Nghymru yw bod darparwyr rhwydwaith mewnol telathrebu datblygedig yn dueddol yn aml o weithio ar batrwm ffigur wyth. Mae’n dechrau yn Llundain, yn teithio i’r gorllewin mor bell â Bryste, yn ôl tuag at Birmingham, i fyny drwy Leeds a Newcastle, o amgylch drwy Gaeredin a Glasgow ac yna yn ôl i Fanceinion a Birmingham, gan hepgor Cymru yn gyfan gwbl. Mae’n bwysig, pa un a ydym yn trafod ADSL neu system band eang arall, ein bod yn sicrhau nad yw’r patrwm ffigur wyth sydd yn hepgor Cymru yn digwydd.
Swyddogaethau sydd yn cael eu Cyflawni gan Adrannau Eraill y Llywodraeth
Functions Carried out by Other Government Departments
Pa drafodaethau y mae Prif Weinidog Cymru wedi’u cael ag Ysgrifennydd Gwladol Cymru am y swyddogaethau sydd yn cael eu cyflawni ar hyn o bryd yng Nghymru gan adrannau eraill y Llywodraeth? (OAQ7583)
What discussions has the First Minister had with the Secretary of State for Wales about the functions currently carried out in Wales by other Government departments? (OAQ7583)
Rhodri Morgan Prif Weinidog Cymru siaradwyd yn Gymraeg t. 17
Rhodri Morgan The First Minister spoken in Welsh p. 17
Nid oes gennyf ddim i’w ychwanegu at yr ateb a roddais i Cynog Dafis yn y Cyfarfod Llawn yr wythnos diwethaf.
I have nothing to add to the answer that I gave to Cynog Dafis in Plenary last week.
Mae Ysgrifennydd Gwladol Cymru, Paul Murphy, wedi diffinio ei rôl fel un sydd yn amddiffyn y setliad cyfansoddiadol presennol. Mae eich cytundeb partneriaeth yn eich ymrwymo i edrych ar ddatblygu pwerau’r Cynulliad. A ydych chi, y Prif Weinidog, yn cytuno mai rôl briodol yr Ysgrifennydd Gwladol—tra bod rhaid wrth un—yw amddiffyn buddiannau Cymru, fel y gwyntyllir hwy gan ei unig gorff sofran democrataidd ei hun ar hyn o bryd, sef y Cynulliad?
The Secretary of State for Wales, Paul Murphy, has defined his role as one which safeguards the current constitutional settlement. Your partnership agreement commits you to looking at developing the Assembly’s powers. Do you, as First Minister, agree that the proper role for the Secretary of State—while such a role is necessary—is to safeguard the interests of Wales, as they are evinced by its only democratic sovereign body at the moment, namely the Assembly?
Rhodri Morgan Prif Weinidog Cymru siaradwyd yn Gymraeg t. 17
Rhodri Morgan The First Minister spoken in Welsh p. 17
Yr wyf yn ddiolchgar dros ben i Dai am godi’r hyn a ddywedodd Paul Murphy yn ei araith yn Barcelona yr wythnos diwethaf. Rhaid imi ddweud wrth Ieuan Wyn Jones fod ei ddehongliad personol o’r hyn a ddywedodd Paul Murphy—bron â bod tra bod Paul yn siarad—yn groes i’r gwirionedd. Ni ddywedodd Paul Murphy ei fod yn amddiffyn y setliad cyfansoddiadol presennol o gwbl. I’r gwrthwyneb—trafodais y mater â Paul ac mae’n gynddeiriog â’r dehongliad a roddodd Ieuan gerbron y Cynulliad yr wythnos diwethaf. Y peth pwysig yw bod unrhyw Ysgrifennydd Gwladol yn gorfod pontio rhyngom ni, San Steffan a Whitehall, ac felly yn amddiffyn ein buddiannau a hefyd yn ein helpu i gael yr hyn a ofynnwn amdano, naill ai ar yr ochr gyfansoddiadol neu o ran deddfwriaeth newydd neu adnoddau newydd. Ar yr un pryd mae pob hawl ganddo i amddiffyn gweithgareddau’r Llywodraeth yng Nghymru.
I am extremely grateful to Dai for raising what Paul Murphy said in his speech in Barcelona last week. I must tell Ieuan Wyn Jones that his personal interpretation of what Paul Murphy said—almost as Paul was speaking—was contrary to the truth. Paul Murphy did not say that he was safeguarding the current constitutional settlement at all. On the contrary—I discussed the matter with Paul and he is furious with the interpretation that Ieuan gave before the Assembly last week. What is important is that any Secretary of State has to be a bridge between us, Westminster and Whitehall, and thereby safeguard our interests and also help us to get what we ask for, either on the constitutional side or regarding new legislation or new resources. At the same time he has every right to defend the activities of the Government in Wales.
Ieuan Wyn Jones Arweinydd yr Wrthblaid siaradwyd yn Gymraeg t. 18
Ieuan Wyn Jones The Leader of the Opposition spoken in Welsh p. 18
Awgrymaf eich bod yn darllen datganiad Paul Murphy i’r wasg a pheidio â dibynnu ar yr hyn a glywsoch mewn trafodaeth breifat ag ef.
I suggest that you read Paul Murphy’s press release and do not rely on what you heard in a private discussion with him.
Fodd bynnag, a symud ymlaen, mae gan Adran y Trysorlys gyfrifoldeb mawr am bensiynau yng Nghymru. Pan gyfarfuasoch â Gordon Brown, y Canghellor, a fynegasoch sylwadau pobl Cymru wrtho, fod cynnydd o 75c yn y pensiwn eleni yn sarhad ar bensiynwyr Cymru?
However, to move on, the Treasury Department has a great responsibility for pensions in Wales. When you met Gordon Brown, the Chancellor, did you express to him the comments of the people of Wales, that an increase of 75p in the pension this year is an insult to Welsh pensioners?
Rhodri Morgan Prif Weinidog Cymru siaradwyd yn Gymraeg t. 18
Rhodri Morgan The First Minister spoken in Welsh p. 18
Ni ddefnyddiais y geiriau hynny pan gyfarfûm â Gordon Brown ym Mhen-y-bont ar Ogwr y mis diwethaf. Fodd bynnag, yr oeddwn ar yr un llinellau ynglŷn â phensiynau a hefyd iawndal i bobl a fu’n gweithio dan ddaear ac sydd yn dioddef o glefydau cysylltiedig. Codais y pwyntiau hyn, ond ni ddefnyddiais y geiriau ymfflamychol y mae Ieuan yn eu defnyddio am ei fod yn dod o’r blaid y mae’n ei harwain.
I did not use those words when I met Gordon Brown in Bridgend last month. However, I was on the same lines as regards pensions and also compensation for people who worked underground and who are suffering from related diseases. I raised these points, but I did not use the inflammatory words that Ieuan uses because he comes from the party that he leads.
Fe’ch cyfeiriaf at y ffaith nad yw’r gair hwnnw yn air a ddefnyddiais innau, ond yn un a ddefnyddiwyd gan bensiynwyr Cymru. Onid yw Rhodri yn derbyn mai’r cyfraniad gorau y gallai Gordon Brown ei wneud—ac yr wyf yn sicr ei fod wedi cymryd y gair yn ei glust ym Mhen-y-bont—yw rhoi cynnydd sylweddol yn y pensiwn sylfaenol, ac nid mewn mân fudd-daliadau eraill fel y bu’n ei wneud dros y blynyddoedd diwethaf? A yw Rhodri’n derbyn mai’r unig ffordd y caiff pob pensiynwr gynnydd yw drwy sicrhau bod y pensiwn sylfaenol yn cynyddu? Onid yw’n wir bod pensiynwyr yn amharod i wneud cais am dâl pan deimlant mai cardod ydyw?
I refer you to the fact that that was not a word that I used, but one that was used by the pensioners of Wales. Does Rhodri not accept that the best contribution that Gordon Brown could make—and I am sure that he listened to the word in his ear in Bridgend—is to give a substantial increase in the basic pension, and not in other minor benefits as he has been doing over the past few years? Does Rhodri accept that the only way that every pensioner will get an increase is to ensure that the basic pension increases? Is it not true that pensioners are reluctant to make an application for payment when they feel that it is charity?
Rhodri Morgan Prif Weinidog Cymru siaradwyd yn Gymraeg t. 18
Rhodri Morgan The First Minister spoken in Welsh p. 18
Mae’r cwestiwn ynglŷn â’r ffordd y telir budd-daliadau i bensiynwyr neu i’r rhai sydd yn ddi-waith neu’n dost yn codi drwy’r amser. A ydych yn eu talu heb brawf moddion, neu ar ôl ystyried faint o eisiau sydd ar bensiynwr neu ar ddosbarth arall sydd â gofynion arbennig? Yn ystod y tair blynedd gyntaf o’r Llywodraeth Lafur, rhoddodd Gordon Brown bwyslais ar y pensiynwyr tlotaf. Fodd bynnag, er mwyn mesur a ydych ymhlith y pensiynwyr tlotaf—y rhai a oedd ar eu colled fwyaf yn ystod y 18 mlynedd o Lywodaeth y Torïaid—mae’n rhaid wrth brawf moddion. Felly, gwarantu isafswm o incwm oedd y pwyslais cyntaf. Cawn wybod yfory; efallai mai dyma’r amser i ailystyried yr holl gwestiwn hwn o’r modd y talwn fwy i bensiynwyr. Mae pawb yn derbyn y buom yn talu mwy i bensiynwyr ond gyda phwyslais gwahanol i’r hyn y siaradodd Ieuan amdano, ond mae’r amseriad a’r cydbwysedd hwn yn bwysig dros ben.
The question of how benefits are paid to pensioners, or to the unemployed or the ill, comes up all the time. Do you pay them without a means test, or after considering how much pensioners or another category of people with specific requirements need? During the first three years of the Labour Government, Gordon Brown placed an emphasis on the poorest pensioners. However, in order to assess whether you are among the poorest pensioners—those who lost out most during 18 years of Tory Government—you must be means tested. Therefore, the first priority was to guarantee a minimum income. We will know tomorrow; perhaps now is the time to reconsider this whole question of how we pay more to pensioners. Everybody accepts that we have been paying pensioners more but with a different emphasis to what Ieuan was talking about, but this timing and balance is extremely important.
Datganiad ar y Llifogydd yng Nghymru
Statement on Flooding in Wales
Rhodri Morgan The First Minister spoken in English p. 19
Rhodri Morgan Prif Weinidog Cymru siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 19
This is a holding statement. Sue Essex will give a more detailed report on Thursday or next week, I hope. Since Sue Essex made her statement on flooding last week, serious flooding has continued and become severe in north-east Wales in places. Sue Essex is in north Wales today visiting some of the worst affected areas and discussing this matter with the Environment Agency and local authorities.
Datganiad cynnal yw hwn. Rhydd Sue Essex adroddiad manylach ddydd Iau neu’r wythnos nesaf, gobeithiaf. Ers i Sue Essex wneud ei datganiad ar y llifogydd yr wythnos diwethaf, mae llifogydd difrifol wedi parhau ac wedi gwaethygu mewn mannu o ogledd-ddwyrain Cymru. Mae Sue Essex yng ngogledd Cymru heddiw yn ymweld â rhai o’r ardaloedd yr effeithiwyd arnynt fwyaf ac yn trafod y mater hwn gydag Asiantaeth yr Amgylchedd ac awdurdodau lleol.
While there have been some further reports of isolated flooding in south and mid Wales over the past weekend, those areas have escaped the worst of the most recent storms. However, the ground remains saturated and it will take an extended period of fine weather before the situation returns to anything like normal. Sympathy must be extended to those who have been flooded, especially to those who have suffered on more than one occasion over the past fortnight. I visited some of the affected areas myself over the weekend. Unfortunately, the Environment Agency has told me that one house that I visited has already been flooded again. During my visits, I talked to some of those whose properties had been flooded. You only have to talk to a few of those people to realise what a shattering blow flooding is to people’s occupation of residential properties.
Er y bu rhai adroddiadau pellach am ambell lif yn ne Cymru a’r Canolbarth dros y penwythnos, dihangodd yr ardaloedd hynny rhag y gwaethaf o’r stormydd diweddaraf. Fodd bynnag, erys y tir yn soeglyd ac fe gymer gyfnod estynedig o dywydd braf cyn y dychwel y sefyllfa i unrhyw beth tebyg i’r arfer. Rhaid mynegi ein cydymdeimlad â’r rheini a ddioddefodd lifogydd, yn enwedig y rheini a ddioddefodd lifogydd fwy nag unwaith dros y pythefnos diwethaf. Ymwelais â rhai o’r ardaloedd yr effeithiwyd arnynt fy hun dros y penwythnos. Yn anffodus, dywedodd Asiantaeth yr Amgylchedd wrthyf fod un tŷ yr ymwelais ag ef wedi dioddef llifogydd eto’n barod. Yn ystod fy ymweliadau, siaradais â rhai o’r bobl a gafodd lifogydd yn eu heiddo. Nid oes ond angen siarad ag ychydig o’r bobl hynny i sylweddoli’r fath ergyd ysigol yw llifogydd o ran gallu pobl i fyw yn eu tai.
We understand that some 600 houses in Wales have been flooded, out of a total of 3,600 in England and Wales. The emergency services, the Environment Agency, local authorities and many others, often volunteers, have been working continuously for over a week now to prevent flooding, provide warnings, keep the utilities and communications working, evacuate threatened homes and accommodate those displaced in somewhere dry and warm. We give all those involved our grateful thanks, and praise them for keeping going in extreme circumstances over such an extended period.
Deallwn y dioddefodd tua 600 o dai yng Nghymru lifogydd, o gyfanswm o 3,600 yng Nghymru a Lloegr. Bu’r gwasanaethau brys, Asiantaeth yr Amgylchedd, awdurdodau lleol a llawer o bobl eraill, yn aml yn wirfoddolwyr, yn gweithio’n barhaus ers dros wythnos bellach i atal llifogydd, darparu rhybuddion, cadw’r cyfleustodau a’r cysylltiadau i weithio, gwagio tai sydd dan fygythiad a rhoi llety i’r rheini a symudir o’u tai yn rhywle sych a chynnes. Diolch o galon i bawb a fu’n ymwneud â hyn, ac fe’u canmolwn am ddal ati mewn amgylchiadau eithafol dros gyfnod mor hir.
I now turn to the present position. The areas worst affected, as of yesterday and this morning, are at Ruthin, and around Mold, Rhydymwyn and Rossett on the River Alyn. This river is said to have reached unprecedented levels over the last 36 hours. Full investigations will be undertaken into the reasons for the flooding in these areas with a view to improving the situation for the future.
Trof yn awr at y sefyllfa bresennol. Yr ardaloedd yr effeithiwyd arnynt fwyaf, ddoe a’r bore yma, yw Rhuthun, ac o gwmpas yr Wyddgrug, Rhyd-y-mwyn a’r Orsedd ar Afon Alun. Dywedir bod yr afon hon, yn ystod y 36 awr diwethaf, wedi cyrraedd lefelau na welwyd mo’u tebyg o’r blaen. Cynhelir ymchwiliadau llawn i’r rhesymau dros y llifogydd yn yr ardaloedd hyn er mwyn ceisio gwella’r sefyllfa yn y dyfodol.
At Bangor-on-Dee, which I visited, flooding of property has been limited. However, a serious threat remains, as the embankments protecting that village have suffered damage from the prolonged high water levels. These water levels are receding at present but will take some time to recede completely, even if there is no further rain in north-east Wales or in the upper catchment area near Bala and Llyn Celyn. Repairs cannot be undertaken until the water levels recede. If there were to be a breach while water levels are still high, flooding could be rapid and lives would be at risk. That is why the police have advised precautionary evacuation. We all hope that the embankments will hold.
Ym Mangor Is-coed, yr ymwelais ag ef, ni chafwyd llawer o lifogydd mewn eiddo. Fodd bynnag, erys bygythiad difrifol, gan fod y cloddiau sydd yn diogelu’r pentref wedi eu difrodi’n ddifrifol gan y lefelau dŵr oedd yn uchel am gyfnod estynedig. Mae’r lefelau dŵr hyn yn gostwng ar hyn o bryd ond fe gymer beth amser iddynt gilio’n llwyr, hyd yn oed os na cheir mwy o law yng ngogledd-ddwyrain Cymru neu yn y dalgylch uchaf ger y Bala a Llyn Celyn. Ni ellir ymgymryd â gwaith atgyweirio nes bod y lefelau dŵr yn gostwng. Pe byddai’r afonydd yn gorlifo tra pery’r lefelau dŵr yn uchel, gallai’r gorlifo fod yn gyflym a gallai bywydau fod mewn perygl. Dyna pam y mae’r heddlu wedi cynghori y dylai pobl adael eu cartrefi, rhag ofn. Gobaith pob un ohonom yw y bydd cloddiau yn dal.
The only severe flood warning in place in Wales now is on the lower Dee, although flood warnings are in place on the Wye and upper Dee. It is often the case in such circumstances that a ‘Bellwin’ scheme is activated to assist local authorities with the additional costs over and above those they would normally be expected to allow for contingencies and emergencies of this nature. I am advised that no authorities are in a position yet to establish whether they might qualify for assistance from the Assembly under such a scheme, but we will consider any applications that are made.
Dim ond ar y Ddyfrdwy isaf y mae rhybudd llifogydd difrifol yng Nghymru erbyn hyn, er bod rhybuddion llifogydd ar afon Gwy a’r Ddyfrdwy uchaf. Yn aml mewn amgylchiadau o’r fath, gweithredir cynllun ‘Bellwin’ i gynorthwyo awdurdodau lleol â chostau ychwanegol heblaw’r rhai y disgwylid iddynt eu caniatáu fel arfer ar gyfer digwyddiadau ac argyfyngau fel hyn. Fe’m cynghorir nad oes unrhyw awdurdodau mewn sefyllfa eto i sefydlu a allent fod yn gymwys i gael cymorth gan y Cynulliad o dan gynllun o’r fath, ond ystyriwn unrhyw geisiadau a wneir.
Since its inception 18 months ago, the National Assembly has been active in pushing forward sensible and sustainable flood defence measures. Investment in the Environment Agency’s new flood warning system and in its campaign to improve public awareness of the risk of flooding has undoubtedly paid dividends. Further investment is planned over the next few years.
Ers ei sefydlu 18 mis yn ôl, bu’r Cynulliad Cenedlaethol yn weithgar o ran hyrwyddo mesurau synhwyrol a chynaliadwy rhag llifogydd. Nid oes amheuaeth i’r buddsoddiad yn system rhybuddio rhag llifogydd newydd Asiantaeth yr Amgylchedd a’i hymgyrch i wella ymwybyddiaeth y cyhoedd o orlifo fod o fudd mawr. Cynllunnir rhagor o fuddsoddiad dros y blynyddoedd nesaf.
The draft high level targets, on which the National Assembly consulted in the summer, cover many of the initiatives that we intend to push forward over the coming years. These include further improvements in flood warning, ensuring the readiness of our flood defences and river systems in the face of expected climate change, and encouraging development away from flood risk areas. There are already plans to improve the maps currently available that show flood risk areas. These maps are an important new tool in planning and development control and will be used to guide new development.
Mae’r targedau drafft ar lefelau uchel, yr ymgynghorodd y Cynulliad ynglŷn â hwy yn yr haf, yn cwmpasu llawer o’r mentrau y bwriadwn eu datblygu yn ystod y blynyddoedd nesaf. Mae’r rhain yn cynnwys gwella’r gwaith o rybuddio rhag llifogydd ymhellach, gan sicrhau bod ein hamddiffynfeydd rhag llifogydd a’n systemau afonydd yn barod i wynebu’r newid hinsawdd disgwyliedig, ac annog symud datblygiadau i ffwrdd oddi wrth ardaloedd lle mae perygl o lifogydd. Ceir cynlluniau eisoes i wella’r mapiau presennol sydd yn dangos yr ardaloedd lle mae perygl o lifogydd. Mae’r mapiau hyn yn ddull newydd pwysig wrth gynllunio a rheoli datblygiad ac fe’u defnyddir i lywio datblygiad newydd.
Thank you for that statement, Rhodri. I join you in extending my party’s sympathy to the families who have had their homes devastated by the floods of the past few days. I give you my assurance that we as a group will support your efforts to assist them.
Diolch am y datganiad hwnnw, Rhodri. Ymunaf â chi wrth fynegi cydymdeimlad fy mhlaid i’r teuluoedd y dinistriwyd eu cartrefi gan lifogydd y dyddiau diwethaf. Fe’ch sicrhaf y byddwn ni fel grŵp yn cefnogi eich ymdrechion i’w cynorthwyo.
I have several questions arising from your statement. Three groups will require urgent assistance: local authorities, the emergency services and the Environment Agency. All these will require different forms of support. Can you give an assurance that their reasonable requests for financial assistance will be considered not only sympathetically, but dealt with urgently? Many local authorities are concerned that their requests might become lost in a bureaucratic jungle for weeks on end. Will you ensure a fast-track procedure to enable them to access those funds quickly?
Mae nifer o gwestiynau gennyf yn deillio o’ch datganiad. Mae angen cymorth brys ar dri grŵp: yr awdurdodau lleol, y gwasanaethau brys ac Asiantaeth yr Amgylchedd. Bydd angen mathau gwahanol o gymorth ar bob un o’r rhain. A allwch sicrhau yr ystyrir eu ceisiadau rhesymol am gymorth ariannol nid yn unig mewn ffordd gydymdeimladol, ond hefyd ar frys? Mae llawer o awdurdodau lleol yn pryderu y gellid colli eu ceisiadau mewn jyngl fiwrocrataidd am wythnosau. A sicrhewch y bydd gweithdrefn dull-carlam i’w galluogi i gael yr arian hwnnw yn gyflym?
Also, will the review of flood defences consider the particular needs of areas, such as the size of culverts and drains and the existing height of river defences? Will the Environment Agency not only be given an assurance that the review will take place, but that funding will follow if it is shown to be necessary to enable further work to be done? Will Rhodri also consider further representation on planning guidance in flood plains? We recognise that the Government here has indicated that the planning guidance will be reviewed. However, will Rhodri ask Sue Essex to consider placing a moratorium on current planning applications to build on flood plains and to ask local authorities not to consider such applications pending the review of the guidelines? Does he not accept that if we must wait a year, say, for the new guidelines, hundreds of planning applications to build on flood plains might well have been considered and, possibly, granted?
Hefyd, a fydd yr adolygiad o’r amddiffynfeydd rhag llifogydd yn ystyried anghenion penodol ardaloedd, megis maint ceuffosydd a draeniau ac uchder presennol amddiffynfeydd afonydd? A roddir sicrwydd i Asiantaeth yr Amgylchedd nid yn unig y cynhelir yr adolygiad, ond y bydd arian yn dilyn os dangosir bod ei angen i alluogi i waith pellach gael ei wneud? A ystyria Rhodri hefyd sylwadau pellach ar arweiniad cynllunio mewn gorlifdiroedd? Cydnabyddwn y nododd y Llywodraeth yma yr adolygir yr arweiniad cynllunio. Fodd bynnag, a wnaiff Rhodri ofyn i Sue Essex ystyried gosod moratoriwm ar geisiadau cynllunio presennol i adeiladu ar orlifdiroedd a gofyn i awdurdodau lleol beidio ag ystyried ceisiadau o’r fath nes y ceir adolygiad o’r canllawiau? Onid yw’n derbyn os bydd yn rhaid inni aros am flwyddyn, dyweder, am y canllawiau newydd, y gellid bod wedi ystyried cannoedd o geisiadau cynllunio i adeiladu ar orlifdiroedd a’u caniatáu, o bosibl?
Finally, does Rhodri not think that it is opportune for the Government to announce a renewable energy strategy? Rather than having a piecemeal approach of considering applications when they arise, this Government, as is the case in Scotland, should have a thorough strategy to enable Wales to make a significant contribution to reducing global warming.
Yn olaf, onid yw Rhodri o’r farn ei bod yn amser da i’r Llywodraeth gyhoeddi strategaeth ynni adnewyddadwy? Yn hytrach na chael ymagwedd dameidiog o ystyried ceisiadau wrth iddynt godi, dylai fod strategaeth drylwyr gan y Llywodraeth hon, fel yn yr Alban, i alluogi Cymru i wneud cyfraniad sylweddol tuag at leihau cynhesu byd-eang.
Rhodri Morgan The First Minister spoken in English p. 22
Rhodri Morgan Prif Weinidog Cymru siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 22
Matters of resources and planning guidance are probably better dealt with by Edwina Hart and Sue Essex. I am sure that they will deal with both those issues. I will just make some general points. John Prescott convened a meeting on Saturday morning of the relevant ministries, which included representations from the devolved administrations in Scotland and Wales. Resourcing and guidelines were discussed in that meeting and John Prescott was able to announce an increase of £51 million, over a three to four year period, in funding for England. He also said that he would be happy to consider bids from Wales and Scotland. We will submit such a bid once we have collated the facts and figures and an analysis from the Environment Agency as to where the most serious problems are. It is also important for the local authorities to inform us about matters that are their responsibilities, such as the clearing out of blocked culverts during the autumn maintenance period and so forth. However, Edwina will come back to you on the funding issue in detail.
Mae’n debyg y byddai’n well i Edwina Hart a Sue Essex ymdrin â materion adnoddau ac arweiniad cynllunio. Yr wyf yn siŵr y deliant â’r ddau fater hynny. Fe wnaf fi ychydig o bwyntiau cyffredinol. Galwyd cyfarfod fore Sadwrn gan John Prescott o’r gweinyddiaethau perthnasol, a oedd yn cynnwys cynrychiolwyr o’r gweinyddiaethau datganoledig yng Nghymru a’r Alban. Trafodwyd adnoddau a chanllawiau yn y cyfarfod hwnnw a gallodd John Prescott gyhoeddi cynnydd o £51 miliwn, dros gyfnod o dair i bedair blynedd, yn yr arian a roddir i Loegr. Dywedodd hefyd y byddai’n fodlon ystyried cynigion o Gymru a’r Alban. Cyflwynwn gynnig unwaith y byddwn wedi coladu’r ffeithiau a’r ffigurau a dadansoddiad gan Asiantaeth yr Amgylchedd o ble mae’r problemau mwyaf difrifol. Mae’n bwysig hefyd bod yr awdurdodau lleol yn rhoi gwybod inni am faterion y maent yn gyfrifol amdanynt, megis glanhau ceuffosydd wedi’u blocio yn ystod cyfnod cynnal a chadw yr hydref ac ati. Fodd bynnag, daw Edwina yn ôl atoch i siarad am fater ariannu yn fanwl.
On the planning guidance, in the light of the frequency of the flooding in 1998, 1999 and 2000 especially, many people would now say that some of the planning permissions given—often by the former Welsh Office on appeal rather than by local authorities—for building on the flood plain around the river Dee, for example, do not seem sensible. There is little that can be done about that now, and little that can be done about planning permissions given but not yet activated, because the compensation claims would be enormous. We must seriously consider how to handle that issue. The difficulty lies in assuming that the answer is to build a concrete wall around all settlements near flood plains. It is not, because if the water does overtop a concrete barrier, it cannot get out again. You need a flood plain that is porous and flexible, so that if a barrier is overtopped, water can be released. Otherwise, the danger to life and limb inside a concrete barrier is much greater than it is if flood defences have a porous element. That is a difficult issue.
Ynglŷn â’r arweiniad cynllunio, yn sgîl amlder y llifogydd yn 1998, 1999 a 2000 yn enwedig, byddai llawer o bobl yn dweud bellach nad ymddengys fod rhai o’r caniatadau cynllunio a roddwyd—yn aml gan yr hen Swyddfa Gymreig pan fu apêl yn hytrach na chan yr awdurdodau lleol—i adeiladu ar y gorlifdir o gwmpas Afon Dyfrdwy, er enghraifft, yn synhwyrol. Nid oes llawer y gellir ei wneud am hynny yn awr, ac nid oes llawer y gellir ei wneud am ganiatâd cynllunio a roddwyd ond nas gweithredwyd arno eto, oherwydd y byddai’r ceisiadau am iawndal yn enfawr. Rhaid inni ystyried o ddifrif sut i ymdrin â’r mater hwnnw. Cyfyd yr anhawster wrth ragdybio mai adeiladu wal goncrit o gwmpas pob anheddiad ger gorlifdiroedd yw’r ateb. Nid yw hynny’n wir, oherwydd os bydd y dŵr yn mynd dros yr atalfa goncrit, ni all fynd allan eto. Mae angen gorlifdir sydd yn fandyllog ac yn hyblyg, fel y gellir gollwng dŵr os bydd yn mynd dros yr atalfa. Fel arall, mae’r perygl i fywyd y tu mewn i atalfa goncrit yn llawer mwy nag ydyw os oes elfen fandyllog i’r amddiffynfeydd rhag y llifogydd. Mae hwnnw’n fater anodd.
On the wider issue about whether this will lead to a wholesale review of our energy policy, with a view to speeding up our carbon dioxide reduction targets and going beyond the international obligations to which we signed up in the Rio earth summit and in Kyoto, I do not know about that yet. I believe that it is time to take out insurance against global warming being the direct cause of this. I think that there are sunspot-related variations in the climate, which may also be a cause of this. However, that does not matter. It is time to take out insurance against global warming as the cause of these floods. A review would have to be led internationally rather than by the Assembly, but I am sure that the Assembly will want to play its part.
Ar y mater ehangach ynglŷn ag a arweinia hyn at adolygiad cyfan o’n polisi ynni, er mwyn cyflymu ein targedau lleihau carbon deuocsid a mynd y tu hwnt i’r ymrwymiadau rhyngwladol y cytunasom arnynt yn uwchgynhadledd y ddaear yn Rio ac yn Kyoto, ni wn am hynny eto. Credaf ei bod yn amser cael yswiriant yn erbyn y ffaith bod cynhesu byd-eang yn achosi hyn yn uniongyrchol. Credaf fod amrywiadau yn yr hinsawdd yn gysylltiedig â lleoedd yn yr haul, a all achosi hyn hefyd. Fodd bynnag, nid oes ots am hynny. Mae’n amser cael yswiriant yn erbyn cynhesu byd-eang fel achos y llifogydd hyn. Byddai’n rhaid cynnal arolwg yn rhyngwladol yn hytrach na chan y Cynulliad, ond yr wyf yn siŵr y bydd y Cynulliad yn awyddus i chwarae ei ran.
I sympathise with the families that have been so severely disadvantaged by these floods throughout north-east Wales and parts of Powys and Monmouthshire. I extend my praise to the emergency services, the Environment Agency, local authorities and volunteers who have played a part in tackling this crisis.
Cydymdeimlaf â theuluoedd a anfanteisiwyd mor ddifrifol gan y llifogydd hyn ledled gogledd ddwyrain Cymru a rhannau o Bowys a Sir Fynwy. Canmolaf y gwasanaethau brys, Asiantaeth yr Amgylchedd, awdurdodau lleol a gwirfoddolwyr a chwaraeodd ran wrth fynd i’r afael â’r argyfwng hwn.
On funding, we understand that additional funding of £51 million was announced by the Deputy Prime Minister. What share of that is coming to Wales or will we get a comparable amount? Could you indicate what that sum is and how it is to be dispersed to these agencies? Secondly, you mentioned the Bellwin scheme, which is important, and I hope that we are encouraging local authorities to let us know if they can participate in that scheme and if they are suffering additional costs. I was in north and mid Wales over the weekend and I spoke to farmers in north Wales this morning. Many have lost fodder and have dairy cows that need rescuing. Have you given consideration to speaking to colleagues in Westminster about the possible need to take emergency powers to deal with what is becoming an emergency situation, especially in north-east Wales?
Ynglŷn ag ariannu, deallwn y cyhoeddwyd £51 miliwn o arian ychwanegol gan y Dirprwy Brif Weinidog. Pa gyfran o’r arian hwnnw a ddaw i Gymru neu a gawn swm tebyg? A allech nodi faint ydyw a sut y caiff ei ddosbarthu i’r asiantaethau hyn? Yn ail, crybwyllasoch gynllun Bellwin, sydd yn bwysig, a gobeithiaf ein bod yn annog awdurdodau lleol i roi gwybod inni os gallant gymryd rhan yn y cynllun hwnnw ac os dioddefant gostau ychwanegol. Bûm yng ngogledd Cymru a’r Canolbarth dros y penwythnos a siaradais â ffermwyr yng ngogledd Cymru y bore yma. Collodd llawer ohonynt borthiant ac mae gwartheg godro ganddynt y mae angen eu hachub. A ystyriasoch siarad â chyd-Aelodau yn San Steffan am yr angen posibl i ganiatáu pwerau brys i ddelio â’r hyn sydd yn datblygu’n sefyllfa frys, yn enwedig yng ngogledd-ddwyrain Cymru?
On the more general medium to long-term planning issues, which you touched on, the Environment Agency understands these planning issues better than anybody else. It is worth noting that, in the last year, its advice on building on the flood plains has been overridden 25 times in Wales. That may be stocking up a problem for subsequent years. Do you have any thoughts as to how the administration will move forwards on planning? The Welsh Conservatives will support any measures that you deem necessary to deal with this crisis.
Ynglŷn â materion cynllunio mwy cyffredinol yn y tymor canolig i’r tymor hir, a grybwyllasoch, dealla Asiantaeth yr Amgylchedd y materion cynllunio hyn yn well nag unrhyw un arall. Mae’n werth nodi yr anwybyddwyd ei chyngor ar adeiladu ar y gorlifdiroedd 25 gwaith yng Nghymru yn ystod y flwyddyn ddiwethaf. Gall hynny fod yn creu problem ar gyfer y blynyddoedd a ddaw. A oes unrhyw syniadau gennych ynglŷn â’r modd y bydd y weinyddiaeth yn symud ymlaen o ran cynllunio? Cefnoga Ceidwadwyr Cymru unrhyw fesurau sydd eu hangen yn eich barn chi er mwyn delio â’r argyfwng hwn.
Rhodri Morgan The First Minister spoken in English p. 25
Rhodri Morgan Prif Weinidog Cymru siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 25
I am grateful for those words and the expression of gratitude towards the emergency and voluntary services’ work and your words of sympathy for the 600 householders who have been affected.
Yr wyf yn ddiolchgar am y geiriau hynny ac am eich geiriau o ddiolch i waith y gwasanaethau brys a’r gwasanaethau gwirfoddol a’ch cydymdeimlad â’r 600 o ddeiliaid tŷ yr effeithiwyd arnynt.
On funding, John Prescott announced that there would be a sum of £51 million for England and said that he was open to bids from Wales and Scotland. Details on the handling of those bids are best left to Edwina Hart. Those bids have not yet been determined because we are waiting for reports from the EA and the local authorities in the affected areas to see what we should bid for and how the bids would stack up against those of England and Scotland.
Ynglŷn ag ariannu, cyhoeddodd John Prescott y byddai £51 miliwn ar gael i Loegr a dywedodd ei fod yn agored i gael cynigion gan Gymru a’r Alban. Mae’n well gadael manylion y cynigion hynny i Edwina Hart. Ni phenderfynwyd eto ar y cynigion hynny gan ein bod yn aros am adroddiadau gan Asiantaeth yr Amgylchedd a’r awdurdodau lleol yn yr ardaloedd yr effeithiwyd arnynt i weld beth y dylem gyflwyno cynnig amdano a sut y byddai’r cynigion yn cymharu â chynigion Lloegr a’r Alban.
On agriculture, some of the farms cannot even be reached by the emergency services, although individuals can be airlifted out. However, if there are 350 milking cows on a farm like the one I saw in the distance, in the middle of the Dee flood plain, which was two and a half miles from the nearest land, the farmer cannot leave. That may be the worst situation for a farm in Wales; I do not know. However, it is an incredibly difficult situation for a farmer to make a choice between staying in the middle of a temporary Lake Michigan in the middle of north Wales and abandoning milking cows, which they obviously have not done. We must consider these isolated farms, where the farmhouse is okay, but where the stock cannot be left.
Ynglŷn ag amaethyddiaeth, ni all y gwasanaethau brys hyd yn oed gyrraedd rhai o’r ffermydd, er y gellir awyrgludo unigolion allan. Fodd bynnag, os ceir 350 o wartheg godro ar fferm fel yr un a welais yn y pellter, yng nghanol gorlifdir Dyfrdwy, a oedd ddwy filltir a hanner o’r tir agosaf, ni all y ffermwr adael. Honno efallai yw’r sefyllfa waethaf i fferm yng Nghymru; ni wn. Fodd bynnag, mae’n sefyllfa hynod o anodd i ffermwr sydd yn gorfod dewis rhwng aros yng nghanol Llyn Michigan dros dro yng nghanol gogledd Cymru a gadael gwartheg godro. Mae’n amlwg na wnaethant hynny. Rhaid inni ystyried y ffermydd anghysbell hyn, lle bo’r ffermdy yn iawn, ond lle na ellir gadael y stoc.
On planning, the first thing that I will make clear is that the EA’s guidance is not mandatory. It can tell a local authority that it is inadvisable to build somewhere, or that it is inadvisable unless the flood defences are improved. Those circumstances may relate to the figure of 25 that you quoted as the number of times that the EA’s advice was overridden by Welsh planning authorities. We do not run those authorities, but we run the appeal system, although that is a matter for the Assembly and not for the administration. However, the issue of whether we need to change planning guidance is currently foremost in Sue Essex’s thoughts, because of the lessons that we have learnt, not just from this flood, but from the frequency of flooding. Everybody accepts that if it rains more in York than it has for 400 years, it might be described as a natural disaster, which may not occur for another 400 years. However, if there are floods for three years in a row, in 1998, 1999 and 2000, there may be a need to reconsider planning guidance. Sue is conscious of that and may well return to the Assembly for it to consider planning guidance revisions regarding house building permissions on flood plains.
Ynglŷn â chynllunio, y peth cyntaf a wnaf yn glir yw nad yw arweiniad Asiantaeth yr Amgylchedd yn orfodol. Gall ddweud wrth awdurdod lleol nad yw’n ddoeth adeiladu rywle, neu nad yw’n ddoeth oni ellir gwella’r amddiffynfeydd rhag llifogydd. Gall yr amgylchiadau hynny ymwneud â’r ffigur 25 a ddyfynasoch fel y nifer o droeon yr anwybyddwyd cyngor Asiantaeth yr Amgylchedd gan awdurdodau cynllunio yng Nghymru. Ni redwn yr awdurdodau hynny, ond cynhaliwn system apêl, er mai mater i’r Cynulliad ac nid y weinyddiaeth ydyw. Fodd bynnag, y mater a ystyria Sue Essex yn bennaf ar hyn o bryd yw a fydd angen inni newid yr arweiniad cynllunio, oherwydd y gwersi a ddysgasom, nid gan y llifogydd hyn yn unig, ond hefyd gan amledd llifogydd. Derbynia pawb, os glawia fwy yng Nghaerefrog nag am 400 o flynyddoedd, gellid ei ddisgrifio yn drychineb genedlaethol, mae’n bosibl na fydd yn digwydd am 400 mlynedd arall. Fodd bynnag, os ceir llifogydd am dair blynedd yn ddilynol, yn 1998, 1999 a 2000, efallai bod angen ailystyried yr arweiniad cynllunio. Mae Sue yn ymwybodol o hynny ac mae’n bosibl iawn y dychwela i’r Cynulliad iddo ystyried diwygio’r arweiniad cynllunio o ran caniatáu adeiladu tai ar orlifdiroedd.
I do not want to make political capital out of the situation. I am grateful that you mentioned that Mold has been flooded, as has happened previously. I had to make the difficult choice of leaving a soggy Delyn to drive here, while Sue Essex was driving up there. Three of my colleagues have remained in north Wales. It would help Flintshire enormously if you would prevail upon Edwina to do something more for the standard spending assessment which is not seen as generous for Flintshire. It is the only county that has not been given any transitional relief. Flintshire is struggling with that money and it will be struggling to clear up after the floods, which are now becoming quite repetitive. I could not reach my constituency office last week because of flooding along the lower road at Bagillt. If you could prevail upon the Minister for Finance, Local Government and Communities to reconsider that situation, you would warm hearts and clear up homes much faster.
Ni ddymunaf ennill budd gwleidyddol o’r sefyllfa. Yr wyf yn ddiolchgar y crybwyllasoch fod llifogydd yn yr Wyddgrug, fel a ddigwyddodd yn gynharach. Bu’n rhaid imi wneud y dewis anodd o adael Delyn gwlyb i yrru yma, tra gyrrai Sue Essex yno. Arhosodd tri o’m cyd-Aelodau yng ngogledd Cymru. Byddai’n helpu Sir y Fflint yn fawr iawn pe byddech yn pwyso ar Edwina i wneud rhywbeth yn fwy am yr asesiad safonol o wariant nad ystyria ei fod yn hael i Sir y Fflint. Hon yw’r unig sir na chafodd unrhyw gymorth trosiannol. Caiff Sir y Fflint anawsterau gyda’r arian hwnnw a chaiff anawsterau i wneud y gwaith clirio ar ôl y llifogydd, sydd bellach yn digwydd yn eithaf rheolaidd. Ni allwn gyrraedd fy swyddfa etholaethol yr wythnos diwethaf oherwydd y llifogydd ar hyd y ffordd isaf ym Magillt. Pe gallech bwyso ar y Gweinidog dros Gyllid, Llywodraeth Leol a Chymunedau i ailystyried y sefyllfa honno, byddech yn cynhesu calonnau ac yn rhoi ein tai mewn trefn yn llawer cyflymach.
Rhodri Morgan The First Minister spoken in English p. 26
Rhodri Morgan Prif Weinidog Cymru siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 26
Any Assembly Member or Member of Parliament who represents an area that is devastated by a river bursting its banks faces an agonising choice as to whether to remain in the area, visiting afflicted householders and surveying the damage with the emergency services, or to attend to his or her representative duties here, in the House of Commons or wherever else. I am pleased that Alison could come here today. I was not sure whether to expect her for the reasons that she illustrated, given that the River Alyn burst its banks throughout its entire 20 to 25 mile length, all the way down to its junction with the river Dee, near Almere, which I visited on Sunday. We are all conscious that local authorities and the Environment Agency must look at budgets to avoid a repetition of this. We do not want to re-examine the standard spending assessment formula with which we dealt last week in terms of the revenue settlement. If a local authority wants to make a bid for ring-fenced sums to carry out better culvert clearing, to ensure that the autumn maintenance is carried out earlier or better and that a certain amount of capital work is carried out to make the culverts more effective, that would go into the all-Wales bid. We will have to see how much money we can get to pay for that, equivalent to the £51 million that John Prescott announced for England on Saturday morning.
Mae unrhyw Aelod o’r Cynulliad neu Aelod Seneddol sydd yn cynrychioli ardal a dinistriwyd gan afon yn gorlifo’i glannau yn wynebu dewis ingol a ddylai aros yn yr ardal, gan ymweld â deiliaid tai yr effeithiwyd arnynt a chan archwilio’r difrod gyda’r gwasanaethau brys, neu ymgymryd â dyletswyddau yma, yn Nhŷ’r Cyffredin neu ble bynnag arall. Mae’n dda gennyf y gallai Alison ddod yma heddiw. Nid oeddwn yn siŵr a ddylwn ei disgwyl oherwydd y rhesymau a eglurodd, o gofio bod Afon Alun wedi gorlifo’i glannau ar hyd ei 20 i 25 o filltiroedd, yr holl ffordd i’w chysylltiad ag afon Dyfrdwy, ger Almere, yr ymwelais ag ef ddydd Sul. Mae pob un ohonom yn ymwybodol bod yn rhaid i awdurdodau lleol ac Asiantaeth yr Amgylchedd edrych ar gyllidebau er mwyn atal hyn rhag digwydd eto. Ni ddymunwn ailarchwilio’r fformwla asesiad gwariant safonol y deliasom â hi yr wythnos diwethaf mewn perthynas â’r setliad refeniw. Os dymuna awdurdod lleol wneud cynnig am arian a neilltuir er mwyn cynnal gwaith clirio ceuffosydd gwell, er mwyn sicrhau y cyflawnir gwaith cynnal a chadw’r hydref yn gynharach neu’n well ac y cyflawnir rhywfaint o’r gwaith cyfalaf i wneud y ceuffosydd yn fwy effeithiol, byddai hynny’n rhan o gynnig Cymru gyfan. Bydd yn rhaid inni weld faint o arian y gallwn ei gael i dalu am hynny, yn gyfwerth â’r £51 miliwn a gyhoeddodd John Prescott ar gyfer Lloegr fore Sadwrn.
I have two brief questions following on from questions that you have already answered. Following your response to the Leader of the Opposition, will the Cabinet urgently review its current approach in calling in renewable energy schemes, even those which have broad local support, in light of the pressing need for us to begin to play our part as a nation in meeting existing, not new or increased, targets to reduce carbon dioxide emissions? To further tease out the funding issues, is the Treasury making extra funds available to English spending departments to enable them to meet requests for support from local government, emergency services and so on to deal with the immediate aftermath of the floods, rather than preventing things in future, or is that money coming out of John Prescott’s existing budget? If it is extra money, will the Treasury make comparable extra resources available as a matter of course to the Welsh block, or will any requests for help under the Bellwin scheme, for example, have to be met from existing budgets? If they must be met from existing budgets, from where will that money come? Could I also press you further about the process for putting in place the bids that you have mentioned? Following on from the Leader of the Opposition’s comments, how long is that process likely to take? In some areas, extra resources will be required as a matter of urgency.
Mae dau gwestiwn byr gennyf yn dilyn ymlaen o gwestiynau a atebasoch eisoes. Yn sgîl eich ymateb i Arweinydd yr Wrthblaid, a fydd y Cabinet yn adolygu ei ymagwedd bresennol ar frys yn galw cynlluniau ynni adnewyddadwy i mewn, hyd yn oed y rheini sydd â chefnogaeth leol eang, yn sgîl yr angen enbyd inni ddechrau chwarae ein rhan fel cenedl wrth fodloni’r targedau presennol, nid targedau newydd na thargedau uwch, i ostwng gollyngiadau carbon deuocsid? Er mwyn datrys y materion ariannu ymhellach, a rydd y Trysorlys arian ychwanegol i adrannau gwario yn Lloegr er mwyn eu galluogi i fodloni ceisiadau am gymorth o lywodraeth leol, y gwasanaethau brys ac ati i ddelio â chanlyniad y llifogydd ar unwaith, yn hytrach nag atal pethau rhag digwydd yn y dyfodol, neu a ddaw’r arian hwnnw o gyllideb bresennol John Prescott? Os mai arian ychwanegol ydyw, a rydd y Trysorlys adnoddau ychwanegol tebyg fel mater o drefn i’r bloc Cymreig, neu a fydd yn rhaid bodloni unrhyw geisiadau am gymorth o dan y cynllun Bellwin, er enghraifft, o’r cyllidebau presennol? Os bydd yn rhaid eu bodloni o’r cyllidebau presennol, o ble y daw’r arian hwnnw? A allwn eich pwyso ymhellach hefyd am y broses i sefydlu’r cynigion a grybwyllasoch? Gan ddilyn sylwadau Arweinydd yr Wrthblaid, pa mor hir a gymera’r broses? Mewn rhai ardaloedd, bydd angen adnoddau ychwanegol ar frys.
Rhodri Morgan The First Minister spoken in English p. 28
Rhodri Morgan Prif Weinidog Cymru siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 28
I will answer in general terms, as Edwina and Sue will deal with the specifics of this. They will make statements to the Assembly and will answer your particular questions. Changing the targets for renewable energy and changing planning guidance are matters on which Sue will return to the Assembly.
Atebaf mewn termau cyffredinol, gan y bydd Edwina a Sue yn delio â’r manylion. Gwnânt ddatganiadau i’r Cynulliad ac atebant eich cwestiynau penodol. Mae newid y targedau ar gyfer ynni adnewyddadwy a newid yr arweiniad cynllunio yn faterion y dychwela Sue i’r Cynulliad ynglŷn â hwy.
Edwina will answer the question about whether we will change the Bellwin scheme. She will also return to the Assembly on whether we will provide additional resources to local authorities and if so, whether they will be ring-fenced and whether the Barnett formula will be used to calculate how much we get relative to that £51 million. This will happen when she has taken further the discussions that opened yesterday with the Treasury after John Prescott’s announcement on Saturday. They will look at what John Prescott calls recovery expenditure; the national recovery plan from the mess that will inevitably be left behind for householders, and they will also examine preventative measures such as changes in planning guidance, which may prevent such devastation from being repeated.
Ateba Edwina’r cwestiwn a newidiwn y cynllun Bellwin. Dychwela hithau i’r Cynulliad ar y mater a ddarparwn adnoddau ychwanegol i awdurdodau lleol ac os felly, a gânt eu neilltuo ac a ddefnyddir fformwla Barnett i gyfrifo faint a gawn o’i gymharu â’r £51 miliwn hynny. Digwydd hyn pan fydd wedi datblygu ymhellach y trafodaethau gyda’r Trysorlys a ddechreuwyd ddoe ar ôl cyhoeddiad John Prescott ddydd Sadwrn. Edrychant ar yr hyn y geilw John Prescott yn wariant adfer; y cynllun adfer cenedlaethol o’r llanastr y mae’n anochel y’i gadewir ar ôl ar gyfer deiliaid tai, ac archwiliant fesurau ataliol hefyd megis newidiadau i’r arweiniad cynllunio, a allai atal difrod o’r fath rhag ddigwydd eto.
Not calling in planning applications from wind farms today will not stop flooding next year. It might do so in 25 years’ time and it might be part of a sensible strategy. I am not arguing against it and I am not taking up a fixed position on it. However, some things must be done immediately, some things need to change, which may help in five years’ time and others may not pay off for 50 years. I cannot say to Helen Mary Jones, Cynog or Ieuan that we will never again call in a planning application for wind farms.
Ni fydd peidio â galw i mewn geisiadau cynllunio gan ffermydd gwynt heddiw yn atal llifogydd rhag digwydd y flwyddyn nesaf. Gallai wneud hynny mewn 25 o flynyddoedd a gallai fod yn rhan o strategaeth synhwyrol. Ni ddadleuaf yn ei erbyn a ni fynegaf farn benodol arno. Fodd bynnag, rhaid gwneud rhai pethau ar unwaith, mae angen i rai pethau newid, a allai helpu ymhen pum mlynedd a rhai eraill na welir eu budd am 50 o flynyddoedd. Ni allaf ddweud wrth Helen Mary Jones, Cynog na Ieuan na alwn gais cynllunio ar gyfer ffermydd gwynt i mewn fyth eto.
The Liberal Democrats join the First Minister in extending sympathy to all householders, businesses and farmers that have been hit by the recent floods, and not just once but on many occasions. We also join him in praising the emergency and voluntary services that have been effective in many places and have brought relief to those affected by the floods. However, there are concerns as this document about the impact of climate change in Wales was only published recently and I have to raise the question again of the management of our reservoirs.
Ymuna’r Democratiaid Rhyddfrydol â Phrif Weinidog Cymru wrth estyn ein cydymdeimlad i bob deiliad tŷ, pob busnes a phob ffermwr yr effeithiodd y llifogydd diweddar arnynt, ac nid unwaith yn unig ond sawl tro. Ymunwn ag ef hefyd i ganmol y gwasanaethau brys a’r gwasanaethau gwirfoddol a fu’n effeithiol mewn llawer o leoedd ac a roddodd gymorth i’r bobl yr effeithiodd y llifogydd arnynt. Fodd bynnag, ceir pryderon gan mai dim ond yn ddiweddar y cyhoeddwyd y ddogfen hon am effaith newid hinsawdd yng Nghymru a rhaid imi ailofyn y cwestiwn ynglŷn â rheoli ein cronfeydd dŵr.
I would like you to make a statement instigating a review to ensure that the water in our reservoirs is kept at a lower level. We already know, as this document states, that there will be higher rainfall in the winter. However, many of these reservoirs are kept at far too high a level and cannot cope with the extra water. You mentioned many places in your statement but omitted mid Wales, particularly Montgomeryshire and the areas surrounding Welshpool, where, it seems, despite the good offices of people there who have pointed out the problem annually, the A483 is yet again flooded and is stopping communications from north to south Wales. I would like to hear what you intend to do about that situation.
Hoffwn ichi wneud datganiad fydd yn ysgogi adolygiad i sicrhau y cedwir y dŵr yn ein cronfeydd ar lefel is. Gwyddom eisoes, fel y nodir yn y ddogfen hon, y bydd mwy o law yn y gaeaf. Fodd bynnag, cedwir llawer o’r cronfeydd hyn ar lefel sydd yn llawer rhy uchel a ni allant ymdopi â’r dŵr ychwanegol. Crybwyllasoch lawer o leoedd yn eich datganiad ond hepgorasoch y canolbarth, yn arbennig Sir Drefaldwyn a’r ardaloedd o gwmpas y Trallwng, lle, mae’n debyg, er gwaethaf cymwynasgarwch y bobl yno a nododd y broblem yn flynyddol, dioddefodd yr A483 lifogydd eto sydd yn rhwystro cysylltiadau rhwng gogledd a de Cymru. Hoffwn glywed beth y bwriadwch ei wneud am y sefyllfa honno.
Further to the debate on planning guidelines and in view of the fact that we accept that building on the flood plane and even on green field sites affects the natural drainage of areas, would it be possible, First Minister, to set targets for building on brown field sites? In your statement you said that no local authorities have asked for money yet. Could we be more proactive and innovative, as we know that the local authorities are affected, and could we give them an advance in money to help solve some of the critical problems that they are encountering?
Yn sgîl y ddadl ar ganllawiau cynllunio ac o ganlyniad i’r ffaith y derbyniwn fod adeiladu ar y gorlifdir a hyd yn oed ar safleoedd tir glas yn effeithio ar broses ddraenio naturiol ardaloedd, a fyddai’n bosibl, Brif Weinidog, osod targedau ar gyfer adeiladu ar safleoedd tir llwyd? Yn eich datganiad dywedasoch na ofynnwyd eto am arian gan unrhyw awdurdod lleol. A allem fod yn fwy rhagweithiol a dyfeisgar, gan y gwyddom yr effeithir ar yr awdurdodau lleol, ac a allem eu talu ymlaen llaw i’w helpu i ddatrys rhai o’r problemau difrifol a wynebant?
Rhodri Morgan The First Minister spoken in English p. 30
Rhodri Morgan Prif Weinidog Cymru siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 30
That was a comprehensive series of questions. I will deal first with the issue of reservoirs because that is the distinctive Welsh aspect in this. We probably have more reservoirs per square mile than any other part of the UK. Mick is right to say that reservoirs can be used to regulate water levels. The Environment Agency tells me—I discussed this matter with the Agency on Sunday—that it is only the River Dee that is substantially regulated by the use of reservoirs. The natural reservoir of Llyn Tegid and Llyn Celyn are used consciously to regulate. In the present rainstorm if rain affects the entire River Dee catchment—the whole length of the River Dee and not just the upstream parts in the Berwyn mountains—not much can be done. However much water you try to remove early to give you space to hold back the next rainstorm, the strategy does not work if there is a rainstorm in the whole catchment. Unfortunately, this last rainstorm covered the entire Dee catchment and, therefore, that strategy was not available to them. Llyn Clywedog is used for regulation but not as much as the natural and man-made catchment in the Upper Dee area. However, I am sure that part of Sue Essex’s review will involve asking whether more could have been done by more sophisticated regulation. That is, if a warning is received from the Meteorological Office that a rainstorm will hit next week, can more water be released earlier to get it out of the way so that there is 15 per cent spare capacity in large reservoirs such as Clywedog, Vyrnwy and Celyn?
Yr oedd honno yn gyfres gynhwysfawr o gwestiynau. Deliaf yn gyntaf â mater cronfeydd dŵr gan fod hon yn agwedd Gymreig arbennig. Mae’n debygol bod gennym fwy o gronfeydd dŵr fesul milltir sgwâr nag unrhyw ran arall o’r DU. Mae Mick yn gywir pan ddywed y gellir defnyddio cronfeydd i reoleiddio lefelau dŵr. Dywed Asiantaeth yr Amgylchedd wrthyf—trafodais y mater hwn gyda’r Asiantaeth ddydd Sul—mai dim ond Afon Dyfrdwy a reoleiddir yn fawr drwy ddefnyddio’r cronfeydd dŵr. Defnyddir cronfa naturiol Llyn Tegid a Llyn Celyn i reoleiddio mewn ffordd ymwybodol. Yn y storm law bresennol os effeithia glaw ar ddalgylch cyfan Afon Dyfrdwy—hyd cyfan Afon Dyfrdwy ac nid yn unig y rhannau i fyny’r afon ym mynyddoedd Berwyn—ni ellir gwneud llawer. Faint bynnag o ddŵr y ceisiwch gael gwared ag ef yn gynnar er mwyn rhoi lle i chi ddal y storm law nesaf yn ôl, ni weithia’r strategaeth hon os ceir storm law yn y dalgylch cyfan. Yn anffodus, cwmpasodd y storm law ddiwethaf hon ddalgylch cyfan y Ddyfrdwy ac, felly, ni fu’r strategaeth honno ar gael iddynt. Defnyddir Llyn Clywedog ar gyfer rheoleiddio dŵr ond ni ddefnyddir cymaint â’r dalgylch naturiol a’r un a wnaethpwyd gan ddyn yn ardal y Ddyfrdwy Uchaf. Fodd bynnag, yr wyf yn siŵr y bydd rhan o adolygiad Sue Essex yn cynnwys gofyn a ellid bod wedi gwneud mwy drwy waith rheoleiddio mwy soffistigedig. Hynny yw, os derbynnir rhybudd gan y Swyddfa Dywydd y bydd storm law yn taro yr wythnos nesaf, a ellir gollwng mwy o ddŵr yn gynharach er mwyn cael gwared ohono fel y bydd 15 y cant o le gwag mewn cronfeydd dŵr mawr megis Clywedog, Efyrnwy a Chelyn?
I apologise for not placing as much emphasis on the A483 and the areas surrounding Garthmyl and Llandrinio as Mick would have liked. I had discussions with a farmer in the Llandrinio area whose land has been flooded three years in a row. That made me conscious of the issue. Although the farmer has tried to time the removal of his stock to higher ground, the flooding has occurred earlier in the three successive years of 1998, 1999 and 2000. He has therefore been caught out three times in a row. Even though he thought that he understood what happened the previous year, the rain and the flooding occurred two weeks earlier each time, so he has still been caught out in Llandrinio. As regards the A483, if a proposal comes forward from—is the A483 a trunk road? I cannot remember.
Ymddiheuraf am beidio â rhoi cymaint o bwyslais ar yr A483 a’r ardaloedd o gwmpas Garthmyl a Llandrinio ag y dymunai Mick. Cefais drafodaethau gyda ffermwr yn ardal Llandrinio y dioddefodd ei dir lifogydd dair blynedd yn olynol. Fe’m gwnaethpwyd yn ymwybodol o’r mater. Er bod y ffermwr wedi ceisio amseru symud ei stoc i dir uwch, digwyddodd y llifogydd yn gynharach yn nhair blynedd olynol 1998, 1999 a 2000. Felly fe’i daliwyd dair blynedd yn olynol. Er y credai iddo ddeall yr hyn a ddigwyddodd y flwyddyn flaenorol, digwyddodd y glaw a’r llifogydd bythefnos yn gynharach bob tro, fel ei fod wedi’i ddal eto yn Llandrinio. O ran yr A483, os daw cynnig gan—ai cefnffordd yw’r A483? Ni allaf gofio.
It is a trunk road.
Cefnffordd ydyw.
Rhodri Morgan The First Minister spoken in English p. 31
Rhodri Morgan Prif Weinidog Cymru siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 31
As it is a trunk road, there will be co-operation between Powys County Council as agents and the Assembly as the trunk road authority to consider whether more can be done to ensure better drainage underneath the road and to ensure that it remains clear. There is also a substantial problem in Monmouthshire in the area surrounding the eastern end of the Heads of the Valleys road where several landslips and landfalls have affected road communications. Landslips have also affected the A5 and A55. We have a multiplicity of problems which will result in a call on resources, sometimes directly to us as the trunk road authority and sometimes to local authorities.
Gan mai cefnffordd ydyw, cydweithia Cyngor Sir Powys fel yr asiantwyr a’r Cynulliad fel awdurdod y gefnffordd i ystyried a ellir gwneud mwy i sicrhau draenio gwell o dan y ffordd ac i sicrhau ei bod yn aros yn glir. Mae problem sylweddol yn Sir Fynwy hefyd yn yr ardal o gwmpas ochr ddwyreiniol Ffordd Blaenau’r Cymoedd lle effeithiodd sawl tirlithriad a thirgwymp ar gysylltiadau ffyrdd. Effeithiodd tirlithriadau ar yr A5 a’r A55 hefyd. Mae nifer fawr o broblemau gennym a arweinia at alw ar adnoddau, weithiau i ni yn uniongyrchol fel awdurdod y gefnffordd ac weithiau i’r awdurdodau lleol.
I am grateful to the First Minister for making his statement to the Assembly. I associate myself with comments that he and others have made regarding the emergency services and their sympathy to those who have suffered personal disasters. May I take the First Minister’s mind forward to the aftermath and consequences for the individuals whose lives have been blighted by these events? I well recall being the Member of Parliament for Clwyd North West in the aftermath of the Towyn floods. I will remember two consequences forever—first, some insurance companies looking for loopholes so that they would not have to pay the bills and, secondly, unqualified people undertaking repairs. I appreciate that the First Minister’s powers are fairly limited. However, he could and, indeed should, approach local authorities with regard to their trading standards officers becoming proactive in these matters. They could ensure that those who have been affected are aware of the dangers. They could also ensure that people are trading properly, whether they are in insurance companies or elsewhere, and that those who are paying or have paid receive the service to which they are entitled.
Yr wyf yn ddiolchgar i’r Prif Weinidog am wneud ei ddatganiad i’r Cynulliad. Ymgysylltaf â’r sylwadau a wnaethpwyd ganddo ef a chan eraill ynglŷn â’r gwasanaethau brys a’u cydymdeimlad i’r rheini a ddioddefodd drychinebau personol. A allaf symud meddwl y Prif Weinidog ymlaen at y canlyniadau i’r unigolion y difethwyd eu bywydau gan y digwyddiadau hyn? Cofiaf yn dda fod yn Aelod Seneddol dros Ogledd Orllewin Clwyd ar ôl llifogydd Tywyn. Cofiaf y ddau ganlyniad am byth—yn gyntaf, rhai cwmnïau yswiriant yn edrych am fylchau fel na fyddai’n rhaid iddynt dalu’r biliau ac, yn ail, pobl heb y cymwysterau perthnasol yn gwneud gwaith atgyweirio. Gwerthfawrogaf fod pwerau’r Prif Weinidog braidd yn gyfyng. Fodd bynnag, gallai ac, yn wir, dylai fynd at yr awdurdodau lleol mewn perthynas â’u swyddogion safonau masnach yn dod yn ragweithiol yn y materion hyn. Gallent sicrhau fod y rhai yr effeithiwyd arnynt yn ymwybodol o’r peryglon. Gallent sicrhau hefyd fod pobl yn masnachu mewn ffordd briodol, pa un ai mewn cwmnïau yswiriant neu mewn mannau eraill, ac y derbynnir y gwasanaeth y mae hawl ganddynt iddo gan y rheini sydd yn talu neu wedi talu.
Rhodri Morgan The First Minister spoken in English p. 32
Rhodri Morgan Prif Weinidog Cymru siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 32
I thank Rod for his kind remarks in his preamble concerning those involved in the emergency services and for his sympathy to those who have been affected. On the recovery of areas that have found themselves in traumatic circumstances, which may not be over yet, there are health and safety issues such as ensuring that people do not try to switch the electricity back on themselves. The public utilities are available to guide people as to when it is safe to turn the electricity back on. They can advise those who own small pubs or restaurants as to whether it would be better for them to have earth leakage circuit breakers rather than fuse boxes, as circuit breakers are waterproof.
Diolchaf i Rod am ei sylwadau caredig yn ei raglith ynglŷn â’r rheini sydd yn rhan o’r gwasanaethau brys ac am ei gydymdeimlad â’r rheini yr effeithiwyd arnynt. Ynglŷn â gwaith adfer yr ardaloedd a ddioddefodd amgylchiadau trawmatig, nad ydynt o bosibl wedi dod i ben eto, ceir materion iechyd a diogelwch megis sicrhau na cheisia pobl roi’r trydan ymlaen eto eu hunain. Mae’r cyfleustodau cyhoeddus ar gael i arwain pobl ynglŷn â phryd y bydd yn ddiogel rhoi’r trydan ymlaen eto. Gallant roi cyngor i’r rheini sydd biau tafarndai neu fwytai bach a fyddai’n well iddynt gael torwyr cylchedau gollyngiad daear yn hytrach na blychau ffiwsys, gan fod torwyr cylchedau yn dal dŵr.
We hope that the public utilities will not attempt to exploit the situation by overcharging on reconnection charges, as individuals are not to blame for the failure of their electricity systems. Another public health issue is that rubber gloves should be worn if there is any suspicion of sewage-contaminated floodwater having been in homes. Restaurant, pub and shop owners will need guidance if such water has affected their stock. Local authorities are currently active in this field, and rightly so.
Ein gobaith yw na cheisia’r cyfleustodau cyhoeddus fanteisio ar y sefyllfa drwy godi gormod am ailgysylltu, gan nad ar yr unigolion y mae’r bai am fethiant eu systemau trydan. Mater iechyd cyhoeddus arall yw y dylid gwisgo menyg rwber os oes unrhyw amheuon y bu llifogydd a lygrwyd gan garthion yn eu cartrefi. Bydd angen arweiniad ar berchnogion bwytai, tafarndai a siopau os effeithiodd dŵr o’r fath ar eu stoc. Cymera’r awdurdodau lleol ran weithredol yn y maes hwn ar hyn o bryd, sydd yn hollol briodol.
Rod raised the question of dodgy repairers following his experience of the flooding in Towyn on the north Wales coast. Consumer protection is one of the few local authority services for which the Assembly is not the guiding or supervising authority. That is the responsibility of the Department of Trade and Industry. I will pass those views on to the DTI and to the Welsh Local Government Association so that some sort of code of conduct on how local authorities could provide a list of qualified repairers who will not exploit the situation in terms of charges is available to anybody who has to strip out, repair or rewire their house, or have new skirting boards or plasterwork and so on. You raised an important point, Rod, and I will pass it on, via the WLGA, to all the local authorities concerned.
Cododd Rod y cwestiwn ynglŷn ag atgyweirwyr amheus yn sgîl ei brofiad o’r llifogydd yn Nhywyn ar arfordir gogledd Cymru. Mae diogelu defnyddwyr yn un o’r ychydig o wasanaethau’r awdurdodau lleol lle nad y Cynulliad yw’r awdurdod tywys na goruchwylio. Cyfrifoldeb yr Adran Masnach a Diwydiant ydyw. Trosglwyddaf y sylwadau hynny i’r Adran Masnach a Diwydiant a Chymdeithas Llywodraeth Leol Cymru fel bod rhyw fath o god ymddygiad ar sut y gallai awdurdodau lleol ddarparu rhestr o atgyweirwyr cymwys, na fyddant yn manteisio ar y sefyllfa o ran eu taliadau, ar gael i unrhyw un y mae’n rhaid iddynt dynnu allan, atgyweirio neu ailweirio ei gartref, neu gael bordiau wal neu waith plastro newydd ac ati. Codasoch bwynt pwysig, Rod, ac fe’i trosglwyddaf, drwy Gymdeithas Llywodraeth Leol Cymru, i bob un o’r awdurdodau lleol perthnasol.
Dafydd Elis-Thomas The Presiding Officer spoken in English p. 33
Dafydd Elis-Thomas Y Llywydd siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 33
I have allowed 30 minutes for this statement because of its importance. I call Alun Pugh to ask the last question.
Caniateais 30 munud ar gyfer y datganiad hwn oherwydd ei bwysigrwydd. Galwaf ar Alun Pugh i ofyn y cwestiwn olaf.
I spent Sunday morning in Ruthin. Many of my constituents had just finished throwing the saturated contents of their homes into skips. Some houses are uninhabitable and many people have no cooking facilities. Since then, they have been flooded out for the second time. Those people look to the Government of Wales to ensure that the more frequent downpours that climatologists predict that we can all look forward to do not automatically mean the wholesale flooding of Ruthin and the cutting off of key roads in Clwyd West. Can you offer them any comfort?
Treuliais fore Sul yn Rhuthun. Yr oedd llawer o’m hetholwyr newydd orffen taflu cynnwys soeglyd eu cartrefi i mewn i sgipiau. Ni ellir byw mewn rhai o’r tai ac nid oes cyfleusterau coginio gan lawer o bobl. Ers hynny, dioddefasant lifogydd am yr ail dro. Dibynna’r bobl hynny ar Lywodraeth Cymru i sicrhau na olyga’r cawodydd trwm mwy rheolaidd, a ragwelir gan hinsoddegwyr y gall pob un ohonom eu disgwyl, y dioddefir llifogydd yn awtomatig gan Ruthun gyfan ac y torrir y cysylltiad â ffyrdd allweddol yng Ngorllewin Clwyd. A allwch eu cysuro mewn unrhyw ffordd?
Rhodri Morgan The First Minister spoken in English p. 33
Rhodri Morgan Prif Weinidog Cymru siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 33
We all saw the dramatic floods in Ruthin last week, only to see almost identical scenes again yesterday, after a phenomenal rainstorm in the catchment area—the bowl in the middle of which Ruthin sits. It is a devastating double event. We must expect a substantial increase in the usual health effects or trauma caused by the shock of finding your house flooded and then, just as you are about to get yourself back on your feet, it happening again. I am not sure that we have faced that within such a short period of time before. We must be ready for that.
Gwelodd pob un ohonom y llifogydd dramatig yn Rhuthun yr wythnos diwethaf, ac yna bron yr un digwyddiadau eto ddoe, ar ôl y storm ryfeddol yn y dalgylch—y basn y lleolir Rhuthun yn ei ganol. Mae’n ddigwyddiad dwbl, dinistriol. Rhaid inni ddisgwyl cynnydd sylweddol yn yr effeithiau iechyd neu’r ysgytwad arferol a achosir gan y sioc o ddarganfod llifogydd yn eich tŷ ac yna, a chwithau ar fin cael trefn ar bethau, yr un peth yn digwydd eto. Nid wyf yn siŵr inni wynebu hynny o fewn cyfnod mor fyr o’r blaen. Rhaid inni fod yn barod am hynny.
The bid that will be made from Denbighshire for assistance from us is part of the comprehensive package, some of which will be Environment Agency expenditure and some of which will be local authority expenditure. The more convincing the bid, the better its chance of being approved by us for inclusion in the package that we will present to John Prescott.
Mae’r cynnig a wneir gan Sir Ddinbych am gymorth gennym yn rhan o’r pecyn cynhwysfawr, y daw rhan o’r arian o wariant Asiantaeth yr Amgylchedd ac y daw rhan arall ohono o wariant yr awdurdod lleol. Po fwyaf argyhoeddedig y cynnig, y gorau y cyfle i gael ei gymeradwyo gennym i’w gynnwys yn y pecyn a gyflwynwn i John Prescott.
Discussions with the Treasury started yesterday, following John Prescott’s announcement. It is too early to say how much additional resources we will receive. I think that the resources will need to be ring-fenced to ensure that the local authorities spend them correctly, and that the Environment Agency does so also in terms of its statutory obligation to do whatever it can to prevent flooding.
Dechreuodd y trafodaethau gyda’r Trysorlys ddoe, ar ôl cyhoeddiad John Prescott. Mae’n rhy gynnar dweud faint o adnoddau ychwanegol a gawn. Credaf y bydd angen neilltuo adnoddau er mwyn sicrhau bod yr awdurdodau lleol yn eu gwario mewn ffordd gywir, a bod Asiantaeth yr Amgylchedd yn gwneud hyn hefyd o fewn ei dyletswydd statudol i wneud beth bynnag y gall i atal llifogydd.
The Environment Agency has told me that it has never refused a proposal for flood prevention work that met the cost benefit analysis test. However, we may have to revisit that test. Sue Essex will come back on that matter to answer your questions in detail.
Dywedodd Asiantaeth yr Amgylchedd wrthyf na wrthododd erioed gynnig ar gyfer gwaith atal llifogydd a fodlonodd brawf dadansoddi cost a budd. Fodd bynnag, efallai y bydd yn rhaid inni ailedrych ar y prawf hwnnw. Daw Sue Essex yn ôl ar y mater hwnnw er mwyn ateb eich cwestiynau yn fanwl.
Pwyntiau o Drefn
Points of Order
Pwynt o drefn. Codaf hyn o dan Reol Sefydlog Rhif 6.29 ac mewn perthynas â’n hymrwymiad statudol i drin y Gymraeg a’r Saesneg yn gyfartal. O dan y trefniadau presennol, pan fo rhywun yn cyflwyno cwestiwn llafar yn y Gymraeg yn y Swyddfa Gyflwyno, caiff y cwestiwn ei anfon at y Gwasanaeth Cyfieithu er mwyn paratoi fersiwn Saesneg ohono. Wedi i’r broses gyfieithu ddod i ben, daw’r cwestiwn yn ôl i’r Swyddfa Gyflwyno er mwyn i’r swyddogion benderfynu a yw’n dderbyniol neu beidio. Os nad ydyw, rhoddir gwybod i’r Aelod er mwyn iddo neu iddi gael cyfle i aralleirio’r cwestiwn mewn modd derbyniol. Yn aml, erbyn i hynny ddigwydd, mae llai nag awr ar ôl cyn i’r cwestiynau gael eu rhifo neu eu shifflo. Pe bai’r cwestiwn wedi ei gyflwyno yn y Saesneg, byddai’r mater o aralleirio’r cwestiwn wedi cael sylw oriau ynghynt, gan roi llawer mwy o gyfle iddo gael y sylw angenrheidiol.
Point of order. I raise this under Standing Order No. 6.29 and in relation to our statutory obligation to treat the Welsh and English languages equally. Under the current arrangements, when somebody tables an oral question in Welsh in the Table Office, the question is sent to the Translation Service so that it can prepare an English version of it. When the translation process is complete, the question comes back to the Table Office for the officials to decide whether or not it is in order. If not, the Member is informed so that he or she has an opportunity to re-word the question in an acceptable way. Often, by the time that that has happened, less than an hour remains before the questions are numbered or shuffled. If the question had been tabled in English, the matter of re-wording the question would have received attention hours earlier, allowing much more time for it to receive the necessary attention.
Ar 6 Medi, anfonais e-bost yn y Gymraeg at y Swyddfa Gyflwyno ynglŷn â derbynioldeb cwestiwn llafar. Cefais ateb drwy e-bost ar 27 Medi—tair wythnos gyfan ar ôl yr ymholiad. Yr esboniad am hynny oedd bod yn rhaid i’r ymholiad fynd at y Gwasanaeth Cyfieithu. Pa gamau sydd ar y gweill tuag at normaleiddio’r defnydd o’r Gymraeg yn y Cynulliad Cenedlaethol?
On 6 September, I sent an e-mail in Welsh to the Table Office regarding the acceptability of an oral question. I received an e-mail response on 27 September—a full three weeks after the inquiry. The explanation for that was that the response had to go to the Translation Service. What steps are being taken to normalise the use of the Welsh language in the National Assembly?
Ymhellach i’r pwynt hwnnw o drefn, nodaf fy mod innau wedi anfon llythyr at y Llywydd. Deallaf fod Prif Weinidog Cymru hefyd wedi derbyn llythyr oddi wrth un o’m hetholwyr a oedd yn dymuno mynd ar un o dripiau busnes y Cynulliad. Fodd bynnag, oherwydd yr ysgrifennwyd y llythyr yn Gymraeg ac oherwydd mai cyntaf i’r felin fyddai’n cael mynd ar y trip hwnnw, erbyn cyfieithu ei lythyr, derbyniwyd ei gais yn rhy hwyr i’w ystyried. Mae rhwystro rhywun rhag cymryd rhan mewn rhywbeth a oedd yn bwysig i’w fusnes ac i waith y Cynulliad oherwydd ei fod wedi dewis danfon ei gais yn Gymraeg yn fater difrifol dros ben.
Further to that point of order, I note that I have sent a letter to the Presiding Officer. I understand that the First Minister has also received a letter from one of my constituents who wished to participate in an Assembly business trip. However, because his letter was written in Welsh and because it was a situation of first come first served, by the time his letter had been translated, his application was too late to be considered. For a person to be stopped from participating in something that was important to his business and to the Assembly because he had chosen to submit his application in Welsh is an exceptionally serious matter.
Dafydd Elis-Thomas Y Llywydd siaradwyd yn Gymraeg t. 35
Dafydd Elis-Thomas The Presiding Officer spoken in Welsh p. 35
Diben pwyntiau o drefn yng Nghyfarfod Llawn y Cynulliad yw rhoi cyfle i Aelodau godi pwyntiau o drefn sydd yn berthnasol i’r Rheolau Sefydlog. Dyma’r tro cyntaf imi glywed am yr achos y soniodd Rhodri Glyn amdano. Yr wyf yn siomedig nad oes gan Aelodau y synnwyr cyffredin i godi pwyntiau o’r fath yn uniongyrchol gyda mi, fy swyddfa, y Gwasanaeth Cyfieithu neu’r Swyddfa Gyflwyno. Byddaf yn ymchwilio i’r pwynt hwnnw, fel y gwnaf gyda phob pwynt o drefn. Pwysleisiaf mai mater gweinyddol yw hwn ac y dylid, felly, ei drin yn briodol. Nid yw’n fater i’w godi yn y Cyfarfod Llawn. Nid yw pwynt arall Rhodri Glyn yn fater i mi.
The purpose of points of order in Plenary is to allow Members the opportunity to raise points of order relevant to Standing Orders. This is the first time that I have heard about the matter to which Rhodri Glyn referred. I am disappointed that Members do not have the common sense to raise such points directly with me, my office, the Translation Service or the Table Office. I will investigate the point, as I do with every point of order. I emphasise that this is an administrative matter and that it should, therefore, be dealt with appropriately. It is not a matter to be raised in Plenary. Rhodri Glyn’s other point is not a matter for me.
Point of order. I refer to the amendment I tabled to the motion of the debate on the report of the Health Service Commissioner. The amendment was submitted on Thursday and I received confirmation from the Table Office on Friday that it had been submitted correctly. However, the Table Office has now told me that it is not an acceptable amendment, and I will, therefore, withdraw it. Do you accept that this is acceptable procedure?
Pwynt o drefn. Cyfeiriaf at y gwelliant a gyflwynais i gynnig y ddadl ar adroddiad Comisiynydd y Gwasanaeth Iechyd. Cyflwynwyd y gwelliant ddydd Iau a derbyniais gadarnhad gan y Swyddfa Gyflwyno ddydd Gwener iddo gael ei gyflwyno’n gywir. Fodd bynnag, dywedodd y Swyddfa Gyflwyno wrthyf bellach nad yw’r gwelliant yn un derbyniol, ac felly, fe’i tynnaf yn ôl. A dderbyniwch fod hyn yn weithdrefn dderbyniol?
Dafydd Elis-Thomas The Presiding Officer spoken in English p. 36
Dafydd Elis-Thomas Y Llywydd siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 36
I was not aware that this amendment was out of order. As far as I am concerned, the amendment has appeared on the order paper and it is, therefore, in order and can be proposed. Subject to further clarification, which I will await with interest, the amendment is in order. I am pleased that you have raised this issue prior to the debate so that I can seek further, urgent advice.
Nid oeddwn yn ymwybodol bod y gwelliant allan o drefn. O’m rhan i, ymddangosodd y gwelliant ar y papur trefn ac felly, mae mewn trefn a gellir ei gynnig. Yn ddarostyngedig i eglurhad pellach, yr arhosaf amdano gyda diddordeb, mae’r gwelliant mewn trefn. Mae’n dda gennyf y codasoch y mater hwn cyn y ddadl fel y gallaf ofyn am gyngor brys, pellach.
Datganiad Busnes
Business Statement
Andrew Davies The Minister for Assembly Business spoken in English p. 36
Andrew Davies Y Trefnydd siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 36
Members will know that I had intended, and agreed with the Business Committee this morning, to propose a procedural motion to elect the membership and Chairs of Subject Committees. Following representations from the Office of the Presiding Officer this morning, I have agreed to defer the elections until Thursday. I therefore intend to propose a procedural motion in Thursday’s Plenary to elect the membership of the seven Subject Committees and their Chairs.
Bydd yr Aelodau yn gwybod imi fwriadu, a chytuno â’r Pwyllgor Busnes y bore yma, cynnig cynnig gweithdrefnol i ethol aelodau a Chadeiryddion Pwyllgorau Pwnc. Yn dilyn sylwadau o Swyddfa’r Llywydd y bore yma, yr wyf wedi cytuno i ohirio’r etholiadau tan ddydd Iau. Bwriadaf felly gynnig cynnig gweithdrefnol yng Nghyfarfod Llawn ddydd Iau i ethol aelodau’r saith Pwyllgor Pwnc a’u Cadeiryddion.
Business on Tuesday 14 November, Thursday 16 November and Tuesday 21 November is as I reported last week. There will be motions on Thursday 23 November to approve the following items of subordinate legislation: the Children’s Commissioner for Wales (Appointments) Regulations 2000; the NHS (General Dental Services) Amendment (Wales) Regulations 2000; and the Smoke Control Areas (Authorised Fuels) (Amendment) (Wales) Regulations 2000. Business on 23 November will also include a motion to approve changes to Standing Orders, as discussed in Business Committee. On Tuesday 28 November there will be a motion to approve the Organic Products (Wales) Regulations 2000, and a motion to debate the national housing strategy. Business on Thursday 30 November will include a motion to debate changes to Standing Orders and a debate on the strategy to promote health and wellbeing.
Mae busnes dydd Mawrth 14 Tachwedd, dydd Iau 16 Tachwedd a dydd Mawrth 21 Tachwedd fel y nodais yr wythnos diwethaf. Bydd cynigion ddydd Iau 23 Tachwedd er mwyn cymeradwyo’r eitemau canlynol o is-ddeddfwriaeth: Rheoliadau Comisiynydd Plant Cymru (Penodiadau) 2000; Rheoliadau Diwygio’r NHS (Gwasanaethau Deintyddol Cyffredinol) (Cymru) 2000; a Rheoliadau Ardaloedd Rheoli Mwg (Tanwydd Awdurdodedig) (Diwygio) (Cymru) 2000. Bydd busnes ar 23 Tachwedd hefyd yn cynnwys cynnig i gymeradwyo newidiadau i Reolau Sefydlog, fel y trafodwyd yn y Pwyllgor Busnes. Ddydd Mawrth 28 Tachwedd bydd cynnig i gymeradwyo Rheoliadau Cynnyrch Organig (Cymru) 2000, a chynnig i ddadlau’r strategaeth tai genedlaethol. Bydd busnes Dydd Iau 30 Tachwedd yn cynnwys cynnig i ddadlau newidiadau i Reolau Sefydlog a dadl ar y strategaeth i hyrwyddo iechyd a lles.
On the advice of the Business Committee this morning, the Deputy Presiding Officer has determined, in accordance with Standing Order No. 22.5, that the following items of subordinate legislation need not be referred to a Subject Committee: the Learning and Skills Act 2000 (Commencement No. 2) (Wales) Order 2000, and the Common Agricultural Policy Support Schemes (Modulation) (Wales) Regulations 2000. Arrangements will be made to post a copy of the business statement to the intranet and internet later today.
Yn sgîl cyngor y Pwyllgor Busnes y bore yma, mae’r Dirprwy Lywydd wedi penderfynu, yn unol â Rheol Sefydlog Rhif 22.5, nad oes angen cyfeirio’r eitemau canlynol o is-ddeddfwriaeth i Bwyllgor Pwnc: Gorchymyn Deddf Dysgu a Sgiliau 2000 (Cychwyn Rhif 2) (Cymru) 2000, a Rheoliadau Cynlluniau Cymorth i’r Polisi Amaethyddol Cyffredin (Trawsgyweiriad) (Cymru) 2000. Gwneir trefniadau i bostio copi o’r datganiad busnes i’r fewnrwyd a’r rhyngrwyd yn ddiweddarach heddiw.
Dafydd Elis-Thomas Y Llywydd siaradwyd yn Gymraeg ac yn Saesneg t. 37
Dafydd Elis-Thomas The Presiding Officer spoken in Welsh and English p. 37
A oes unrhyw wrthwynebiadau i’r datganiad busnes? Gwelaf nad oes.
in Welsh Are there any objections to the business statement? I see that there are not.
Are there any comments on the business statement? I will take one, as usual, from each party group.
yn Saesneg A oes unrhyw sylwadau ar y datganiad busnes? Cymeraf un, fel arfer, o bob grŵp plaid.
I have questions about the news that we will not elect the members of the new Subject Committees today. Will Andrew confirm that he received the Plaid Cymru group’s nominations last Thursday at 10 a.m. as agreed? Will he confirm that any delay since is not to be laid at our door? Will he explain why the Government did not proceed by way of a no-named day motion, as it did a few weeks ago in the election of the Deputy Presiding Officer?
Mae gennyf gwestiynau am y newyddion na etholwn aelodau’r Pwyllgorau Pwnc heddiw. A gadarnha Andrew iddo dderbyn enwebiadau grŵp Plaid Cymru ddydd Iau diwethaf am 10 a.m. fel y cytunwyd? A gadarnha nad ein bai ni yw unrhyw oedi ers hynny? A esbonia pam na weithredodd y Llywodraeth drwy gynnig diwrnod dienw, fel y gwnaeth ychydig wythnosau’n ôl yn etholiad y Dirprwy Lywydd?
I note that the business statement does not allocate a time for a statement from the Minister for Economic Development on his alleged machinations while working for the Welsh Joint Education Committee. I understand that the leader of Bridgend County Borough Council has launched further investigations into his time at the WJEC and I am concerned that this matter is preventing the Minister from conducting his ministerial responsibilities. Does Andrew agree that it is important that this matter be cleared up as quickly as possible so that the Minister can continue with his normal responsibilities?
Nodaf nad yw’r datganiad busnes yn neilltuo amser ar gyfer datganiad gan y Gweinidog dros Ddatblygu Economaidd ar ei gynllwynion honedig tra’n gweithio i Gyd-bwyllgor Addysg Cymru. Deallaf fod arweinydd Cyngor Bwrdeistref Sirol Pen-y-bont ar Ogwr wedi lansio ymchwiliadau pellach i mewn i’w amser gyda CBAC ac yr wyf yn pryderu bod y mater hwn yn rhwystro’r Gweinidog rhag cyflawni ei gyfrifoldebau gweinidogol. A gytuna Andrew ei bod yn bwysig clirio’r mater hwn cyn gynted ag y bo modd er mwyn i’r Gweinidog allu parhau â’i gyfrifoldebau arferol?
Dafydd Elis-Thomas The Presiding Officer spoken in English p. 37
Dafydd Elis-Thomas Y Llywydd siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 37
Order. I am anxious that questions should relate to the business statement. I will now take comments from the Liberal Democrat group. I see that it does not have any questions.
Trefn. Yr wyf yn awyddus y dylai cwestiynau ymwneud â’r datganiad busnes. Cymeraf yn awr sylwadau gan grŵp y Democratiaid Rhyddfrydol. Gwelaf nad oes ganddo gwestiynau.
On the nominations, I do not apportion blame to any political party. We had hoped to elect the membership of the new Subject Committees today. I will now propose a procedural motion on Thursday to enable us to do so then.
O ran yr enwebiadau, ni feiaf unrhyw blaid wleidyddol. Yr oeddem wedi gobeithio ethol aelodau’r Pwyllgorau Pwnc newydd heddiw. Byddaf yn awr yn cynnig cynnig gweithdrefnol ddydd Iau i’n galluogi i wneud hynny bryd hynny.
That was a good try by Alun Cairns. Listening to Alun and the Tories is a little like watching the film Groundhog Day—we seem to be condemned to listen to the same story over and over again. The Minister for Economic Development has made his position in relation to matters that pre-dated his election to the Assembly clear on many occasions outside this Chamber. That is where the matter should lie.
Yr oedd yn gynnig da gan Alun Cairns. Mae gwrando ar Alun a’r Torïaid ychydig yn debyg i wylio’r ffilm Groundhog Day—ymddengys ein bod wedi ein condemnio i wrando ar yr un stori drosodd a throsodd. Mae’r Gweinidog dros Ddatblygu Economaidd wedi gwneud ei sefyllfa mewn perthynas â’r materion a ddigwyddodd cyn iddo gael ei ethol i’r Cynulliad yn glir ar sawl achlysur y tu allan i’r Siambr hon. Dyna lle y dylai’r mater aros.
Gorchymyn Deddf Safonau Gofal 2000 (Cychwyn Rhif 1) (Cymru) 2000
The Care Standards Act 2000 (Commencement No. 1) (Wales) Order 2000
Jane Hutt The Minister for Health and Social Services spoken in English p. 38
Jane Hutt Y Gweinidog dros Iechyd a Gwasanaethau Cymdeithasol siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 38
I propose that
Cynigiaf fod
Jane Hutt The Minister for Health and Social Services (continued) spoken in English p. 38
Jane Hutt Y Gweinidog dros Iechyd a Gwasanaethau Cymdeithasol (parhad) siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 38
I also propose that
Cynigiaf hefyd fod
Jane Hutt The Minister for Health and Social Services (continued) spoken in English p. 38
Jane Hutt Y Gweinidog dros Iechyd a Gwasanaethau Cymdeithasol (parhad) siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 38
Members will remember that we fully debated the measures contained in the Care Standards Act 2000 on 24 October. This Act brings in fundamental changes to the social and non-national health service care framework in Wales, which the Assembly welcomed. The Act, together with Assembly legislation, will put into practice our commitment to raise standards of care and improve protection for our most vulnerable adults and children in Wales. We fully discussed that in the debate.
Bydd yr Aelodau yn cofio inni drafod y mesurau o fewn Deddf Safonau Gofal 2000 yn llawn ar 24 Hydref. Daw’r Ddeddf hon â newidiadau sylfaenol i’r fframwaith gofal cymdeithasol a gofal nad yw’n ofal gan y gwasanaeth iechyd gwladol yng Nghymru, a groesawyd gan y Cynulliad. Gweithreda’r Ddeddf, ynghyd â deddfwriaeth y Cynulliad, ein hymrwymiad i godi safonau gofal a gwella diogelwch ar gyfer ein hoedolion a’n plant mwyaf diamddiffyn yng Nghymru. Trafodwyd hynny yn llawn gennym yn y ddadl.
Two of the most important effects of the commencement Order will be to instigate powers to the initial establishment of an independent Children’s Commissioner for Wales and to provide for a new Assembly-sponsored public body called the Care Council for Wales-Cyngor Gofal Cymru. In relation to the Children’s Commissioner, the commencement Order is the first piece of Assembly legislation that will commence and inform the establishment of the Children’s Commissioner’s office and the commissioner’s functions and powers. The provisions for a Children’s Commissioner in the Care Standards Act 2000 were drafted to leave as much room as possible for the details to be assumed by Assembly legislation. As I have said in previous debates, this is the first step. Our aim, which we are actively pursuing—as the First Minister, Rhodri Morgan, said today—is to secure wider, independent statutory powers for the commissioner under further primary legislation.
Dau o effeithiau pwysicaf y Gorchymyn cychwyn fydd gweithredu pwerau i gyfeiriad y cam cychwynnol o sefydlu Comisiynydd Plant annibynnol i Gymru a darparu ar gyfer corff cyhoeddus newydd a noddir gan y Cynulliad o’r enw Cyngor Gofal Cymru. Mewn perthynas â’r Comisiynydd Plant, y Gorchymyn cychwyn yw’r darn cyntaf o ddeddfwriaeth y Cynulliad a fydd yn cychwyn a llywio’r gwaith o sefydlu swydd y Comisiynydd Plant a swyddogaethau a phwerau’r comisiynydd. Drafftiwyd y darpariaethau ar gyfer Comisiynydd Plant yn Neddf Safonau Gofal 2000 mewn ffordd a adawai gymaint o le â phosibl i’r manylion gael eu mabwysiadu gan ddeddfwriaeth y Cynulliad. Fel y dywedais mewn trafodaethau blaenorol, dyma’r cam cyntaf. Ein nod, yr ydym yn anelu ato’n weithredol—fel y dywedodd y Prif Weinidog, Rhodri Morgan, heddiw—yw sicrhau pwerau statudol annibynnol, ehangach ar gyfer y comisiynydd o dan ddeddfwriaeth sylfaenol bellach.
The commencement Order will enable us to establish the Care Council for Wales, which will have two key tasks—to regulate the social care workforce in Wales and to drive up levels of training and qualifications. The council will take up its functions when the UK-wide Central Council for Education and Training in Social Work is abolished on 1 October 2001. The commencement Order will provide for the Care Council for Wales to be established in shell form in Wales from 1 April 2001. I urge Members to support this commencement Order.
Bydd y Gorchymyn cychwyn yn ein galluogi i sefydlu Cyngor Gofal Cymru, a gaiff ddwy dasg allweddol—rheoleiddio’r gweithlu gofal cymdeithasol yng Nghymru a chodi lefelau hyfforddiant a chymwysterau. Bydd y cyngor yn ymgymryd â’i swyddogaethau pan ddiddymir Cyngor Canolog y DU dros Addysg a Hyfforddiant mewn Gwaith Cymdeithasol ar 1 Hydref 2001. Bydd y Gorchymyn cychwyn yn darparu ar gyfer y broses o sefydlu Cyngor Gofal Cymru ar ffurf plisgyn yng Nghymru o 1 Ebrill 2001. Pwysaf ar yr Aelodau i gefnogi’r Gorchymyn cychwyn hwn.
I warmly welcome both main aspects of this Order—the Care Council for Wales and the beginning of the process of establishing our independent Children’s Commissioner. The Opposition party will fully support both motions.
Croesawaf ddwy brif agwedd y Gorchymyn hwn yn frwd—Cyngor Gofal Cymru a dechrau’r broses o sefydlu ein Comisiynydd Plant annibynnol. Cefnoga’r Wrthblaid y ddau gynnig yn llawn.
I take this opportunity to make a few brief remarks on the office of the Children’s Commissioner, following the concerns and criticisms that have appeared in the press over the last few days.
Cymeraf y cyfle hwn i wneud ychydig sylwadau byr ar swydd y Comisiynydd Plant, yn dilyn y pryderon a’r beirniadu sydd wedi ymddangos yn y wasg dros yr ychydig ddyddiau diwethaf.
We should take this opportunity—as the Minister has already done—to reaffirm the Assembly’s commitment to the fullest, most innovative and challenging role possible for the Children’s Commissioner. There may have been faults or problems in the paperwork that was sent out in connection with the appointment, but such things are never perfect. However, those of us involved in the appointment know that we are looking for a special kind of person. He or she must be able to communicate effectively with young people and children and then act on their concerns at the highest level, and bang important heads together if that is needed. We need a person who will have a high profile in the press and in the media, but also be approachable to children and young people.
Dylem achub ar y cyfle hwn—fel y mae’r Gweinidog eisoes wedi gwneud—i ailddatgan ymrwymiad y Cynulliad i’r rôl lawnaf, fwyaf dyfeisgar a heriol bosibl ar gyfer y Comisiynydd Plant. Efallai y bu diffygion neu broblemau yn y gwaith papur a ddosbarthwyd mewn perthynas â’r penodiad, ond nid yw pethau o’r fath byth yn berffaith. Fodd bynnag, gŵyr y rheini ohonom sydd yn rhan o’r broses benodi ein bod yn edrych am fath arbennig o berson. Bydd yn rhaid iddo ef neu hi allu cyfathrebu’n effeithiol â phobl ifanc a phlant ac yna weithredu ar eu pryderon ar y lefel uchaf, a tharo pennau pwysig ynghyd os oes angen hynny. Mae angen person arnom a fydd yn meddu ar broffil uchel yn y wasg ac yn y cyfryngau, ond y bydd plant a phobl ifanc yn ei ystyried yn hawdd mynd ato hefyd.
I believe that that commitment is shared across the National Assembly and I am sure that the Minister will want to confirm that today. There are two further concerns that I would like her to address in replying, and I know that she will want to do so. First, I am sure that she will wish to confirm that the office of the commissioner will work fully bilingually, in Welsh and English, and will provide services in the other languages of Wales as and when appropriate. That was the Committee’s wish, and was a commitment by the Government, but concerns have been raised about the bilingual nature of the post, so I ask Jane Hutt to confirm that commitment today.
Credaf y rhennir yr ymrwymiad hwnnw ar draws y Cynulliad Cenedlaethol ac yr wyf yn siŵr y bydd y Gweinidog am gadarnhau hynny heddiw. Mae dau bryder pellach yr hoffwn iddi roi sylw iddynt wrth ateb, a gwn y bydd am wneud hynny. Yn gyntaf, yr wyf yn siŵr y bydd am gadarnhau y bydd swyddfa’r comisiynydd yn gweithio’n gwbl ddwyieithog, yn Gymraeg ac yn Saesneg, ac y bydd yn darparu gwasanaethau yn ieithoedd eraill Cymru fel a phan fo’n briodol. Dyna oedd dymuniad y Pwyllgor, ac yr oedd yn ymrwymiad gan y Llywodraeth, ond codwyd pryderon am natur ddwyieithog y swydd, felly gofynnaf i Jane Hutt gadarnhau’r ymrwymiad hwnnw heddiw.
Secondly, I would like Jane to address funding. We warmly welcome the extra funding in the partnership agreement for the office of the commissioner but I ask the Minister to confirm that this budget will be kept under review, with a view to making substantial increases as the commissioner’s work develops.
Yn ail, hoffwn i Jane roi sylw i ariannu. Croesawn yr arian ychwanegol yn y cytundeb partneriaeth ar gyfer swydd y comisiynydd yn frwd ond gofynnaf i’r Gweinidog gadarnhau yr adolygir y gyllideb hon yn rheolaidd, gyda golwg ar ychwanegu ati yn sylweddol wrth i waith y comisiynydd ddatblygu.
The commissioner’s role will undoubtedly change and evolve over time, and there have been concerns that the Assembly has moved too quickly to appoint the commissioner. I believe that the Committee was right to recommend that the appointment be made as soon as possible, and that the Minister was right to accept its recommendation. However, I am sure that we would all wish to reassure the organisations that have expressed concern that the commissioner will not become bogged down in bureaucracy and that he or she will be able to be fully proactive in acting on behalf of the children of Wales and in their interest.
Yn ddi-os, newidia ac esblyga rôl y comisiynydd dros amser, a bu pryderon i’r Cynulliad symud yn rhy gyflym i benodi’r comisiynydd. Credaf y bu’r Pwyllgor yn iawn i argymell gwneud y penodiad cyn gynted ag y bo modd, ac y bu’r Gweinidog yn iawn i dderbyn ei argymhelliad. Fodd bynnag, yr wyf yn siŵr y dymunem oll sicrhau’r sefydliadau a fynegodd bryder na foddir y comisiynydd mewn biwrocratiaeth ac y gall ef neu hi fod yn gwbl ragweithiol wrth weithredu ar ran plant Cymru ac er eu lles.
Has Jane given any thought to the location of the office of the Children’s Commissioner? Does she agree that it would be a good idea for it to be located outside Cardiff, preferably in the more peripheral parts of Wales? I suggest Pembrokeshire as an appropriate venue for that office.
A yw Jane wedi ystyried lleoliad swyddfa’r Comisiynydd Plant? A gytuna y buasai’n syniad da ei lleoli y tu allan i Gaerdydd, o ddewis mewn rhannau mwy ymylol o Gymru? Awgrymaf Sir Benfro fel lleoliad priodol ar gyfer y swyddfa honno.
These measures have enjoyed the full support of the Welsh Conservative Party and will continue to do so. The Minister has our support on the measures under way to recruit a Children’s Commissioner and we warmly welcome the increase in the designated budget for that commissioner, which I believe has been raised to a level of £900,000. It seems to be a generous and appropriate response.
Mae Plaid Geidwadol Cymru wedi cefnogi’r mesurau hyn yn llawn a pharha i wneud hynny. Cefnogwn y Gweinidog ar y mesurau sydd ar y gweill i recriwtio Comisiynydd Plant a chroesawn y cynnydd yn y gyllideb a neilltuir ar gyfer y comisiynydd hwnnw yn gynnes, a godwyd, fe gredaf, i lefel o £900,000. Ymddengys yn ymateb hael a phriodol.
I am grateful for the opportunity to speak, as someone from the Labour group who is involved in appointing the Children’s Commissioner. We have said all that needs to be said about this exciting, innovative appointment. I join the others who have spoken today to welcome it. I do not wish to dampen Helen Mary’s spirit, but I will raise one little caution. Helen Mary referred to the office—and I emphasise ‘the office’—of the commissioner being bilingual. The commissioner herself or himself does not have to be bilingual, but must have an understanding of the sensitivity of the Welsh language issue. I just emphasise that point.
Yr wyf yn ddiolchgar am y cyfle i siarad, fel rhywun o’r grŵp Llafur sydd yn gysylltiedig â’r gwaith o benodi’r Comisiynydd Plant. Dywedasom bopeth y mae angen ei ddweud am y penodiad cyffrous, arloesol hwn. Ymunaf â’r rhai eraill a siaradodd heddiw i’w groesawu. Nid wyf am ddigalonni Helen Mary, ond codaf un rhybudd bach. Cyfeiriodd Helen Mary at y ffaith fod swyddfa—a phwysleisiaf ‘swyddfa’—y comisiynydd i fod yn ddwyieithog. Ni fydd yn rhaid i’r comisiynydd ei hun fod yn ddwyieithog, ond bydd yn rhaid iddo ddeall natur sensitif mater yr iaith Gymraeg. Pwysleisiaf y pwynt hwnnw.
I understand that the application forms for the Children’s Commissioner ask whether the applicant campaigned for any political party in the last five years. I would be grateful if the Minister would explain the purpose of the question and the consequences of any particular answer that a particular applicant might give.
Deallaf y gofynna’r ffurflenni cais ar gyfer y Comisiynydd Plant a ymgyrchodd yr ymgeisydd dros unrhyw blaid wleidyddol o fewn y pum mlynedd diwethaf. Buaswn yn ddiolchgar petai’r Gweinidog yn esbonio diben y cwestiwn a chanlyniadau unrhyw ateb penodol y gallai ymgeisydd penodol ei roi.
Jane highlighted that two important aspects of the Waterhouse report are being tackled in the commencement Order today: not only the establishment of the office of the Children’s Commissioner, but improving and driving up the standards of human resources in the area of social care. As we said before, we have had a number of opportunities to discuss this role. It is one of the most important pieces of work with which this Assembly has been involved to date. It is also unique in many ways. It attracted support from all political parties and it was a unique policy development process for the Health and Social Services Committee, which involved many people throughout Wales. At the risk of going over old ground, and as Helen Mary Jones said, this is only the first step to establishing the role as the Assembly has envisaged it. Although initial powers are welcome and perhaps provide enhanced protection for some of our most vulnerable young people—something that was sadly lacking with disastrous effects in the past—we need a post that can be a champion of all children in Wales, in whatever setting and in whatever aspect of their lives.
Amlygodd Jane y ffaith yr eir i’r afael â dwy agwedd bwysig ar adroddiad Waterhouse yn y Gorchymyn cychwyn heddiw: nid yn unig sefydlu swydd y Comisiynydd Plant, ond gwella a chodi lefel safonau’r adnoddau dynol ym maes gofal cymdeithasol. Fel y dywedasom o’r blaen, cawsom nifer o gyfleoedd i drafod y rôl hon. Mae’n un o’r darnau gwaith pwysicaf y bu’r Cynulliad yn gysylltiedig ag ef hyd yn hyn. Mae hefyd yn unigryw mewn sawl ffordd. Enillodd gefnogaeth o bob plaid wleidyddol ac yr oedd yn broses datblygu polisi unigryw i’r Pwyllgor Iechyd a Gwasanaethau Cymdeithasol, a gynhwysodd lawer o bobl ledled Cymru. Os caf fentro mynd dros hen dir, ac fel y dywedodd Helen Mary Jones, dim ond y cam cyntaf yw hwn yn y broses o sefydlu’r rôl fel y’i rhagwelir gan y Cynulliad. Er bod pwerau cychwynnol i’w croesawu a’u bod efallai yn cynnig mwy o ddiogelwch i rai o’n pobl ifanc fwyaf diamddiffyn—rhywbeth a oedd yn drist o ddiffygiol gydag effeithiau trychinebus yn y gorffennol—mae angen swydd arnom a all fod yn amddiffynnydd pob plentyn yng Nghymru, ym mha leoliad bynnag ac ym mha agwedd bynnag ar eu bywydau.
The process of appointing this champion is crucial and I am sure that Jane will reassure us today that the administration has every intention of involving young people in that process. That will be a natural continuation of the involvement of young people to date in establishing the vision of the Health and Social Services Committee that they should not only be involved in the appointment but should also be prime players in informing the commissioner’s work and agenda. To be effective, the commissioner needs adequate powers, the confidence of young people in Wales and financial resources. I join David Melding in welcoming the partnership agreement’s commitment to providing substantial resources for the post of Children’s Commissioner that fall within the broad range recommended by voluntary organisations in Wales and the Health and Social Services Committee.
Y mae’r broses o benodi’r amddiffynnydd hwn yn hanfodol ac yr wyf yn siŵr y bydd Jane yn ein sicrhau heddiw fod y weinyddiaeth yn llawn fwriadu cynnwys pobl ifanc yn y broses honno. Bydd hynny’n barhad naturiol o gyfraniad pobl ifanc hyd yma wrth sefydlu gweledigaeth y Pwyllgor Iechyd a Gwasanaethau Cymdeithasol y dylent fod nid yn unig yn gysylltiedig â’r penodi, ond y dylent hefyd fod yn chwaraewyr amlwg wrth lywio gwaith ac agenda’r comisiynydd. Er mwyn bod yn effeithiol, mae angen pwerau digonol, hyder pobl ifanc Cymru ac adnoddau ariannol ar y comisiynydd. Ymunaf â David Melding wrth groesawu ymrwymiad y cytundeb partneriaeth i ddarparu adnoddau sylweddol ar gyfer swydd y Comisiynydd Plant sydd yn dod o fewn yr ystod eang a argymhellwyd gan sefydliadau gwirfoddol yng Nghymru a’r Pwyllgor Iechyd a Gwasanaethau Cymdeithasol.
Thank you for the supportive comments from across the Chamber. I thank Helen Mary Jones first for her supportive remarks. I am grateful for the opportunity to respond to some of the points that she and others have made on the appointment of the Children’s Commissioner. I am sympathetic to the concerns raised by some organisations about ensuring that children and young people are fully involved in the appointment process. We are breaking new ground by doing that. To respond to Rod’s point, the appointment process is being run on the basis of the Assembly’s code of practice for public appointments. Everyone who applies for public appointments are rightly asked those questions. We are stretching and bending the code—perhaps I should not say that—but the code of practice for public appointments is being extended to bring in the voice of children and young people. That is important. The intention is to create a separate panel of children and young people that will include at least one representative of Children in Care, which is important considering the Care Standards Act 2000 discussions and the ‘Lost in Care’ report.
Diolch am y sylwadau cefnogol o bob rhan o’r Siambr. Diolchaf i Helen Mary Jones yn gyntaf am ei sylwadau cefnogol. Yr wyf yn ddiolchgar am y cyfle i ymateb i rai o’r pwyntiau a wnaethpwyd ganddi hi ac eraill ynglŷn â phenodi’r Comisiynydd Plant. Mae gennyf gydymdeimlad â’r pryderon a godwyd gan rai sefydliadau ynglŷn â sicrhau y cynhwysir plant a phobl ifanc yn llawn yn y broses benodi. Torrwn dir newydd drwy wneud hynny. I ymateb i bwynt Rod, cynhelir y broses benodi ar sail côd ymarfer y Cynulliad ar gyfer penodiadau cyhoeddus. Gofynnir y cwestiynau hynny i bawb sydd yn ymgeisio am benodiadau cyhoeddus, yn gywir felly. Yr ydym yn ymestyn ac yn plygu’r cod—efallai na ddylwn ddweud hynny—ond estynnir y côd ymarfer ar gyfer penodiadau cyhoeddus er mwyn cynnwys llais plant a phobl ifanc. Mae hynny’n bwysig. Y bwriad yw creu panel ar wahân o blant a phobl ifanc a gynhwysa o leiaf un cynrychiolydd o Blant mewn Gofal, sydd yn bwysig o ystyried trafodaethau Deddf Safonau Gofal 2000 a’r adroddiad ‘Ar Goll mewn Gofal’.
A consultation day has been arranged for 11 November to select a panel of 10 to 12 representatives to plan the topics based upon the person specifications on which the commissioner will be assessed. A wide range of representative groups have been invited from local authority youth forums; looked-after young people involved in the Children’s Rights Service in north Wales and Voices from Care; Young Carers in Flintshire; an NCH children’s disability group and the Cardiff and Vale branch of the National Black Youth Forum. There will also be members of the Bite Back group and staff from Voices from Care attending and organising workshops on that day. That shows the open, thorough and new way in which we are bringing in children and young people to this appointment. Next week, as a cross-party appointments group, we are meeting with independent advisers, as we are required to do under the code of practice on public appointments.
Trefnwyd diwrnod ymgynghori ar gyfer 11 Tachwedd er mwyn dethol panel o 10 i 12 cynrychiolydd i gynllunio’r pynciau sydd yn seiliedig ar y manylebau person yr asesir y comisiynydd arnynt. Gwahoddwyd ystod eang o grwpiau cynrychioliadol o fforymau ieuenctid awdurdodau lleol; pobl ifanc y gofalir amdanynt sydd yn gysylltiedig â’r Gwasanaeth Hawliau Plant yng ngogledd Cymru a Voices from Care; Cynhalwyr Ifanc yn Sir y Fflint; grŵp anabledd plant NCH; a changen Caerdydd a’r Fro o’r Fforwm Ieuenctid Croenddu Cenedlaethol. Bydd aelodau hefyd o’r grŵp Bite Back a staff o Voices from Care yn mynychu ac yn trefnu gweithdai ar y diwrnod hwnnw. Dengys hynny y ffordd agored, drwyadl a newydd yr ydym yn tynnu plant a phobl ifanc i mewn i’r penodiad hwn. Yr wythnos nesaf, fel grŵp penodiadau trawsbleidiol, cyfarfyddwn ag ymgynghorwyr annibynnol, fel sydd yn ofynnol inni o dan y côd ymarfer ar benodiadau cyhoeddus.
Helen Mary raised two further concerns. The commissioner and the commissioner’s office will conform to the Welsh Language Act 1993, and have its own Welsh language scheme. As Lorraine said, we would expect full understanding and sensitivity about issues concerning the Welsh language—and of the other languages of Wales—in the commissioner’s and the office’s work. We discussed that at the initial meeting of the appointments panel.
Cododd Helen Mary ddau bryder pellach. Cydymffurfia’r comisiynydd a swyddfa’r comisiynydd â Deddf yr Iaith Gymraeg 1993, a bydd ganddo ei gynllun iaith Gymraeg ei hun. Fel y dywedodd Lorraine, byddem yn disgwyl dealltwriaeth lawn a sensitifrwydd ar faterion yn ymwneud â’r iaith Gymraeg—ac â ieithoedd eraill Cymru—yng ngwaith y comisiynydd a’r swyddfa. Trafodasom hynny gennym yng nghyfarfod cychwynnol y panel penodiadau.
Everyone has welcomed the fact that the partnership agreement and the partnership Government have enabled us to have a draft budget of £800,000. We have £100,000 in this year’s budget and it will be increased to £800,000 over the next three years. However, it is right, Helen Mary, that we review that funding and that we look at ensuring that it can do its job effectively. This is a major commitment by the Assembly and I hope that all parties will approve its budget. I am sure that they will.
Croesawodd pawb y ffaith i’r cytundeb partneriaeth a’r Llywodraeth bartneriaeth ein galluogi i gael cyllideb ddrafft o £800,000. Mae gennym £100,000 yng nghyllideb eleni ac fe’i cynyddir i £800,000 dros y tair blynedd nesaf. Fodd bynnag, mae’n iawn, Helen Mary, ein bod yn adolygu’r arian hwnnw a’n bod yn edrych ar sicrhau y gall wneud ei waith yn effeithiol. Mae hwn yn ymrwymiad mawr gan y Cynulliad a gobeithiaf y cymeradwyir ei gyllideb gan bob plaid. Yr wyf yn siŵr y gwnânt hynny.
I think that you asked this question about the location of the commissioner’s office before, Richard. There will be a temporary location for the offices, because we are making this appointment quickly. We are determined to appoint before the end of the calendar year. There will be temporary offices, which the officials are already considering, in the Cardiff area, but this has no bearing at all on its permanent location, which has not been decided at all. We need the commissioner to start on the work. This was the case with the National Lottery Charities Board: its main office is in Newtown, which is further away than Pembrokeshire. The permanent base must be considered by the commissioner, taking on our advice.
Credaf ichi ofyn y cwestiwn hwn ynglŷn â lleoliad swyddfa’r comisiynydd o’r blaen, Richard. Bydd lleoliad dros dro ar gyfer y swyddfeydd, gan ein bod yn gwneud y penodiad hwn yn gyflym. Yr ydym yn benderfynol o benodi cyn diwedd y flwyddyn galendr. Bydd swyddfeydd dros dro, y mae’r swyddogion eisoes yn eu hystyried, yn ardal Caerdydd, ond nid yw hyn yn gysylltiedig o gwbl â’i lleoliad parhaol, na phenderfynwyd arno o gwbl. Mae angen i’r comisiynydd ddechrau ar y gwaith. Yr oedd hyn yn wir gyda Bwrdd Elusennau’r Loteri Genedlaethol: mae ei brif swyddfa yn y Drenewydd, sydd ymhellach i ffwrdd na Sir Benfro. Bydd yn rhaid i’r comisiynydd ystyried y safle parhaol, gan dalu sylw i’n cyngor ni.
Lorraine made the point about how important this commissioner is, and I am glad that you, as a member of the former Pre-16 Education, Schools and Early Learning Committee, are involved in the appointment.
Gwnaeth Lorraine y pwynt ynglŷn â pha mor bwysig yw’r comisiynydd hwn, ac yr wyf yn falch eich bod, fel aelod o’r hen Bwyllgor Addysg Cyn 16 Oed, Ysgolion a Dysgu Cynnar, yn gysylltiedig â’r gwaith o benodi.
Finally, Kirsty, this commissioner will be a champion of all children. This will be a great achievement for the Assembly. We can move forward with this appointment, seeking someone exceptional who will have the confidence of the children and young people of Wales. That is the most important point: the appointment must be backed by their confidence.
Yn olaf, Kirsty, bydd y comisiynydd hwn yn amddiffynnydd pob plentyn. Bydd hon yn orchest fawr i’r Cynulliad. Gallwn fynd yn ein blaenau gyda’r penodiad hwn, gan chwilio am rywun eithriadol a fydd yn ennyn hyder plant a phobl ifanc Cymru. Dyna’r pwynt pwysicaf: mae’n rhaid i’w hyder hwy gefnogi’r penodiad.
Dafydd Elis-Thomas Y Llywydd siaradwyd yn Gymraeg t. 45
Dafydd Elis-Thomas The Presiding Officer spoken in Welsh p. 45
Pleidleisiwn yn awr ar egwyddor y Gorchymyn.
We will now vote on the principle of the Order.
DerbyniwydAdopted O blaidFor 41 YmatalAbstain 0 Yn erbynAgainst 0
Derbyniwyd y cynnig.
Motion adopted.
Sut y pleidleisiodd yr AelodauHow Members voted
O blaidFor (41)
- Lorraine Barrett
- Peter Black
- Nick Bourne
- Rosemary Butler
- Alun Cairns
- Andrew Davies
- David Davies
- Geraint Davies
- Glyn Davies
- Jocelyn Davies
- Ron Davies
- Richard Edwards
- Delyth Evans
- Michael German
- Brian Gibbons
- William Graham
- Janice Gregory
- John Griffiths
- Brian Hancock
- Edwina Hart
- Christine Humphreys
- Jane Hutt
- Pauline Jarman
- Carwyn Jones
- Elin Jones
- Helen Mary Jones
- Ieuan Wyn Jones
- Peter Law
- David Lloyd
- David Melding
- Jonathan Morgan
- Rhodri Morgan
- Lynne Neagle
- Alun Pugh
- Jenny Randerson
- Rod Richards
- Peter Rogers
- Gwenda Thomas
- Rhodri Glyn Thomas
- Kirsty Williams
- Phil Williams
Dafydd Elis-Thomas Y Llywydd siaradwyd yn Gymraeg t. 46
Dafydd Elis-Thomas The Presiding Officer spoken in Welsh p. 46
Pleidleisiwn yn awr ar gymeradwyo’r Gorchymyn.
We will now vote on the approval of the Order.
DerbyniwydAdopted O blaidFor 41 YmatalAbstain 0 Yn erbynAgainst 0
Derbyniwyd y cynnig.
Motion adopted.
Sut y pleidleisiodd yr AelodauHow Members voted
O blaidFor (41)
- Lorraine Barrett
- Peter Black
- Nick Bourne
- Rosemary Butler
- Alun Cairns
- Andrew Davies
- David Davies
- Geraint Davies
- Glyn Davies
- Jocelyn Davies
- Ron Davies
- Richard Edwards
- Delyth Evans
- Michael German
- Brian Gibbons
- William Graham
- Janice Gregory
- John Griffiths
- Brian Hancock
- Edwina Hart
- Christine Humphreys
- Jane Hutt
- Pauline Jarman
- Carwyn Jones
- Elin Jones
- Helen Mary Jones
- Ieuan Wyn Jones
- Peter Law
- David Lloyd
- David Melding
- Jonathan Morgan
- Rhodri Morgan
- Lynne Neagle
- Alun Pugh
- Jenny Randerson
- Rod Richards
- Peter Rogers
- Gwenda Thomas
- Rhodri Glyn Thomas
- Kirsty Williams
- Phil Williams
Cymeradwyo Rheoliadau Addysg (Gwahardd o’r Ysgol) (Cyfnodau Rhagnodedig) (Cymru) 2000
Approval of the Education (Exclusion from Schools) (Prescribed Periods) (Wales) Regulations 2000
Andrew Davies The Minister for Assembly Business spoken in English p. 47
Andrew Davies Y Trefnydd siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 47
I propose that
Cynigiaf fod
DerbyniwydAdopted O blaidFor 40 YmatalAbstain 0 Yn erbynAgainst 0
Derbyniwyd y cynnig.
Motion adopted.
Sut y pleidleisiodd yr AelodauHow Members voted
O blaidFor (40)
- Lorraine Barrett
- Peter Black
- Nick Bourne
- Rosemary Butler
- Alun Cairns
- Christine Chapman
- Andrew Davies
- David Davies
- Geraint Davies
- Glyn Davies
- Janet Davies
- Jocelyn Davies
- Ron Davies
- Richard Edwards
- Delyth Evans
- Michael German
- Brian Gibbons
- William Graham
- Janice Gregory
- John Griffiths
- Brian Hancock
- Christine Humphreys
- Jane Hutt
- Pauline Jarman
- Carwyn Jones
- Elin Jones
- Ieuan Wyn Jones
- Peter Law
- David Lloyd
- David Melding
- Jonathan Morgan
- Rhodri Morgan
- Lynne Neagle
- Alun Pugh
- Jenny Randerson
- Rod Richards
- Peter Rogers
- Gwenda Thomas
- Rhodri Glyn Thomas
- Kirsty Williams
Dadl ar y Gorchmynion Iechyd
Debate on the Health Orders
Jane Hutt The Minister for Health and Social Services spoken in English p. 48
Jane Hutt Y Gweinidog dros Iechyd a Gwasanaethau Cymdeithasol siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 48
I propose that
Cynigiaf fod
Jane Hutt The Minister for Health and Social Services (continued) spoken in English p. 48
Jane Hutt Y Gweinidog dros Iechyd a Gwasanaethau Cymdeithasol (parhad) siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 48
Taken together, the regulations and commencement Order introduce a package of provisions contained in the Health Act 1999 that will enable closer joint working than was previously possible between the NHS and local government. They will promote innovation in the way services are provided to benefit the user and carer. The provisions introduce new mechanisms to promote joint working at the boundaries between the NHS and social services and between the NHS and wider local government. These provisions will allow a greater flexibility of a transfer of funds and operational arrangements where that will best improve local health. The regulations and associated guidance have been developed in close collaboration with local government, the NHS and voluntary sector partners subject to full partnership consultation. They further the principles of ‘Putting Wales First: A Partnership for the People of Wales’.
Mae’r rheoliadau a’r Gorchymyn cychwyn, gyda’i gilydd, yn cyflwyno pecyn o ddarpariaethau a gynhwysir yn Neddf Iechyd 1999 a fydd yn galluogi cydweithio agosach nag yr oedd yn bosibl o’r blaen rhwng yr NHS a llywodraeth leol. Byddant yn hyrwyddo blaengaredd yn y modd y darperir gwasanaethau er budd defnyddwyr a chynhalwyr. Mae’r darpariaethau yn cyflwyno dulliau newydd a fydd yn hyrwyddo cydweithio ar y ffiniau rhwng yr NHS a’r gwasanaethau cymdeithasol a rhwng yr NHS a llywodraeth leol ehangach. Bydd y darpariaethau hyn yn caniatáu mwy o hyblygrwydd wrth drosglwyddo arian a threfniadau gweithredol lle mai hynny yw’r ffordd orau o wella iechyd lleol. Datblygwyd y rheoliadau ac arweiniad cysylltiedig mewn cydweithrediad agos â llywodraeth leol, yr NHS a phartneriaid yn y sector gwirfoddol sydd yn ddarostyngedig i ymgynghoriad partneriaeth llawn. Maent yn hyrwyddo egwyddorion ‘Rhoi Cymru yn Gyntaf: Partneriaeth ar gyfer Pobl Cymru’.
The commencement Order will bring into force those provisions of the Health Act 1999 that provide greater flexibility and co-operation between the NHS and local government. The main effects will bring into force on 1 December, a duty of co-operation between NHS bodies and local authorities, an extension to the powers of NHS bodies and local government to make payments between each other and new powers for the NHS and local authorities to enter into joint arrangements. The Order will also bring into force that part of the Health Act that removes the statutory requirements for joint consultative committees. To retain the statutory requirements for these committees would be unnecessary in the light of these increased flexibility arrangements and related partnership working. That will come into force on 1 January 2001 following the expiry of the current term of office. The draft Order underpins the proposed regulations for the partnership arrangements. These regulations will provide the framework in which NHS bodies and local government can operate. The regulations will define the nature of the NHS and local authority partnership arrangements, the functions that can be included within the flexibilities and conditions that attach to their use. The provisions are permissive and will allow pooled budgets, the delegations of functions through lead commissioning and integrated provision to promote innovation in the way that services are provided.
Bydd y Gorchymyn cychwyn yn gweithredu’r darpariaethau hynny yn Neddf Iechyd 1999 sydd yn rhoi mwy o hyblygrwydd a chydweithrediad rhwng yr NHS a llywodraeth leol. Ymhlith y prif effeithiau bydd gweithredu ar 1 Rhagfyr ddyletswydd o gydweithrediad rhwng cyrff yr NHS ac awdurdodau lleol, ymestyn pwerau cyrff yr NHS a llywodraeth leol fel y gallant wneud taliadau i’w gilydd a phwerau newydd ar gyfer yr NHS ac awdurdodau lleol i lunio trefniadau ar y cyd. Bydd y Gorchymyn hefyd yn gweithredu’r rhan honno o’r Ddeddf Iechyd sydd yn tynnu yn ôl y gofynion statudol ar gyfer cyd-bwyllgorau ymgynghorol. Ni fyddai angen cadw’r gofynion statudol ar gyfer y pwyllgorau hyn yng ngoleuni’r trefniadau mwy hyblyg hyn a’r gweithio mewn partneriaeth cysylltiedig. Daw hynny i rym ar 1 Ionawr 2001 pan ddaw’r penodiad cyfredol i ben. Mae’r Gorchymyn drafft yn sail i’r rheoliadau arfaethedig ar gyfer y trefniadau partneriaeth. Bydd y rheoliadau hyn yn rhoi fframwaith y gall cyrff yr NHS a llywodraeth leol weithredu ynddo. Bydd y rheoliadau yn pennu natur trefniadau partneriaeth yr NHS ac awdurdodau lleol, y swyddogaethau y gellir eu cynnwys o fewn y dulliau hyblyg a’r amodau sydd ynghlwm wrth eu defnydd. Mae’r darpariaethau yn rhai caniataol a byddant yn caniatáu cyllidebau ar y cyd, dirprwyo swyddogaethau drwy gomisiynu arweiniol a darpariaeth integredig a fydd yn hyrwyddo blaengaredd yn y modd y darperir gwasanaethau.
The main purpose of this legislation is to improve services for carers and users by enabling a more people-centred approach to be taken jointly across the NHS and local government. These new opportunities for more flexible ways of working will mean that innovative patient and community orientated services can be designed and delivered to meet local needs and objectives. These provisions give key effect to the messages in my July statement on a healthier future for Wales. The Government of Wales is committed to improving the health and wellbeing of the people of Wales by tackling social disadvantage, addressing equality of opportunity and promoting sustainability. Achieving better health for the population is fundamental to our vision.
Prif ddiben y ddeddfwriaeth hon yw gwella gwasanaethau i gynhalwyr a defnyddwyr drwy alluogi’r NHS a llywodraeth leol gyfan fabwysiadu ymagwedd ar y cyd sydd yn canolbwyntio’n fwy ar bobl. Golyga’r cyfleoedd newydd hyn ar gyfer dulliau mwy hyblyg o weithio y gellir cynllunio a chyflwyno gwasanaethau blaengar sydd wedi eu hanelu at gleifion a’r gymuned a fydd yn bodloni anghenion ac amcanion lleol. Mae’r darpariaethau hyn yn allweddol wrth weithredu’r negeseuon yn fy natganiad ym mis Gorffennaf ar ddyfodol iachach i Gymru. Mae Llywodraeth Cymru yn ymrwymedig i wella iechyd a lles pobl Cymru drwy fynd i’r afael ag anfantais gymdeithasol, ymdrin â chyfle cyfartal a hyrwyddo cynaliadwyedd. Mae sicrhau gwell iechyd i’r boblogaeth yn hanfodol i’n gweledigaeth.
The relationship between local government and the NHS is central to achieving our goals. Local government and the NHS have demonstrated how they can work together creatively and reduce barriers to effective services. Many of you know that the partnership is taking place. For example, in Bro Morgannwg, the relationship between the authority and the local social services department is thorough in managing delayed discharge. In north Wales, rapid response teams—which were very effective last winter—formed between trusts and social services have been established to facilitate the rapid discharge from acute hospital services through the use of domiciliary care, where social workers, nurses and general practitioners are working together. In addition, a contingency fund has been established in north Wales with the new money, which will allow patients who are medically fit for discharge to be cared for in nursing or residential care if the local authority cannot fund the placement in the North Wales Health Authority.
Mae’r berthynas rhwng llywodraeth leol a’r NHS yn ganolog i gyflawni ein nodau. Dangosodd llywodraeth leol a’r NHS eu bod yn gallu gweithio gyda’i gilydd yn greadigol a lleihau’r rhwystrau i wasanaethau effeithiol. Gŵyr llawer ohonoch fod y bartneriaeth yn digwydd. Er enghraifft, ym Mro Morgannwg, mae’r berthynas rhwng yr awdurdod a’r adran gwasanaethau cymdeithasol leol yn drylwyr wrth reoli oedi cyn rhyddhau cleifion. Yng ngogledd Cymru, sefydlwyd timau ymateb cyflym—a oedd yn effeithiol iawn yn y gaeaf y llynedd—a luniwyd rhwng yr ymddiriedolaethau a’r gwasanaethau cymdeithasol er mwyn hwyluso’r broses o ryddhau cleifion yn gyflym o wasanaethau aciwt ysbytai drwy ddefnyddio gofal yn y cartref, lle mae gweithwyr cymdeithasol, nyrsys a meddygon teulu yn cydweithio. Yn ogystal, sefydlwyd cronfa wrth gefn yng ngogledd Cymru gyda’r arian newydd, a fydd yn caniatáu gofalu am gleifion sydd yn ddigon iach yn feddygol i’w rhyddhau o’r ysbyty i gartrefi nyrsio neu gartrefi preswyl os na all yr awdurdod lleol ariannu’r lleoliad o fewn Awdurdod Iechyd Gogledd Cymru.
At a national level, the Assembly has agreed a system to collect information on delayed discharges, which it is most important that it is aware of. Data will be collected from trusts following validation and agreement with social services. Across Wales, local health groups have been working with local authorities to identify alternatives to admission and to introduce ways of facilitating early discharge. The whole policy of preventing delayed discharge and preventing people from being admitted to hospital will be driven forward by these new flexibilities.
Ar lefel genedlaethol, cytunodd y Cynulliad ar system a fydd yn casglu gwybodaeth am achosion o oedi cyn rhyddhau cleifion, mae’n hynod bwysig ei fod yn ymwybodol ohonynt. Bydd yr ymddiriedolaethau’n casglu’r data ar ôl i’r gwasanaethau cymdeithasol ei ddilysu a chytuno arno. Mae grwpiau iechyd lleol ledled Cymru wedi bod yn gweithio gyda’r awdurdodau lleol i nodi dewisiadau amgen i dderbyn cleifion a chyflwyno ffyrdd o hwyluso eu rhyddhau’n gynnar. Caiff yr holl bolisi o atal oedi cyn rhyddhau cleifion ac atal pobl rhag cael eu derbyn i’r ysbyty ei wthio ymlaen gan y dulliau hyblyg newydd hyn.
The emergency pressures taskforce has worked hard to prepare the way for these new flexibilities. With the taskforce’s multi-agency representation, we have developed many schemes and guidance with the new money that is coming through to set up good practice for the NHS and local government. That will be reflected in the way in which health authorities and local government prepare for this winter’s pressures. The flexible ways of working in partnership which the National Health Service Bodies and Local Authorities Partnership Arrangements (Wales) Regulations 2000 provide for underpin the taskforce’s work. In each health authority area there is a taskforce with a wide-ranging membership, looking at how it can prepare for this winter and monitoring that preparation.
Gweithiodd y tasglu pwysau brys yn ddygn i baratoi’r ffordd ar gyfer y dulliau hyblyg newydd hyn. Yn sgîl cynrychiolaeth amlasiantaeth y tasglu, yr ydym wedi datblygu llawer o gynlluniau ac arweiniad gyda’r arian newydd sydd yn dod trwodd er mwyn sefydlu arfer da ar gyfer yr NHS a llywodraeth leol. Caiff hynny ei adlewyrchu yn y ffordd y bydd awdurdodau iechyd a llywodraeth leol yn paratoi ar gyfer pwysau’r gaeaf eleni. Mae’r dulliau hyblyg o weithio mewn partneriaeth a ddarperir gan Reoliadau Trefniadau Partneriaeth Cyrff Gwasanaeth Iechyd Gwladol ac Awdurdodau Lleol (Cymru) 2000 yn sail i waith y tasglu. Ymhob ardal awdurdod iechyd mae tasglu ag aelodaeth eang ei chwmpas, sydd yn ystyried sut y gall baratoi ar gyfer y gaeaf eleni ac yn monitro’r paratoadau hynny.
On Dai Lloyd’s amendment 1, I agree wholeheartedly that the provision of increasingly integrated health and social care is of great importance. We have said that time and again in the Committee and in the Assembly. My comments this afternoon underscore the partnership Government’s commitment to achieve integrated health and social care provision. In September and October of this year, the Health and Social Services Committee has commented on draft regulations and guidance underpinning today’s debate. The Committee has contributed to discussions on primary care development in Wales reflecting on the future role of local health groups.
Ynglŷn â gwelliant 1 Dai Lloyd, cytunaf yn llwyr fod y ddarpariaeth sydd yn integreiddio iechyd a gofal cymdeithasol fwyfwy yn bwysig iawn. Dywedasom hynny dro ar ôl tro yn y Pwyllgor ac yn y Cynulliad. Mae fy sylwadau y prynhawn yma yn tanlinellu ymrwymiad y Llywodraeth bartneriaeth i gyflawni darpariaeth iechyd a gofal cymdeithasol integredig. Ym Medi a Hydref eleni, cynigiodd y Pwyllgor Iechyd a Gwasanaethau Cymdeithasol sylwadau ar reoliadau ac arweiniad drafft sydd yn sail i’r ddadl heddiw. Cyfrannodd y Pwyllgor at drafodaethau ar ddatblygu gofal sylfaenol yng Nghymru gan ystyried rôl y grwpiau iechyd lleol yn y dyfodol.
These important issues will form a key part of the strategy for NHS Wales that I will launch early in the new year. The Health and Social Services Committee will want to discuss this strategy. It will also be brought to Plenary to be debated. In view of this, I hope that Dai will consider withdrawing his amendment.
Bydd y materion pwysig hyn yn rhan allweddol o’r strategaeth ar gyfer NHS Cymru y byddaf yn ei lansio yn y flwyddyn newydd. Bydd y Pwyllgor Iechyd a Gwasanaethau Cymdeithasol yn dymuno trafod y strategaeth hon. Fe’i cyflwynir hefyd gerbron y Cyfarfod Llawn i’w drafod. O ystyried hyn, gobeithiaf yr ystyria Dai dynnu ei welliant yn ôl.
I now move on to how the Assembly can support the development of integrated health and social care, which brings us to money. The draft Assembly budget proposes funding of £2 million in 2001-02, £5 million in 2002-03 and £10 million in 2003-04, which would be used to promote flexible care and joint working. We need the money to oil the wheels of joint working. I will work with others to develop a central resource to provide guidance, spread good practice, develop good joint training models and promote monitoring and evaluation to assist the NHS and local authorities to establish partnership arrangements.
Symudaf ymlaen yn awr at sut y gall y Cynulliad gynnal datblygu iechyd a gofal cymdeithasol integredig, sydd yn ein harwain at fater arian. Mae cyllideb ddrafft y Cynulliad yn cynnig £2 miliwn yn 2001-02, £5 miliwn yn 2002-03 a £10 miliwn yn 2003-04, a gâi eu defnyddio i hyrwyddo gofal hyblyg a chydweithio. Mae angen yr arian arnom i hwyluso cydweithio. Byddaf yn gweithio â phobl eraill i ddatblygu adnodd canolog a fydd yn rhoi arweiniad, lledaenu arfer da, datblygu modelau hyfforddi ar y cyd da a hyrwyddo’r gwaith o fonitro a gwerthuso er mwyn cynorthwyo’r NHS a’r awdurdodau lleol i sefydlu trefniadau partneriaeth.
I will launch the Health Act 1999 increased flexibilities regulations and guidance at a conference on 29 November in Llandrindod Wells. There we will share experiences and ideas for future joint working. That will lead to a more user, carer and people-centred approach to services across boundaries. I therefore propose that the National Assembly supports the motion to move this important work forward.
Lansiaf reoliadau ac arweiniad dulliau mwy hyblyg Deddf Iechyd 1999 mewn cynhadledd ar 29 Tachwedd yn Llandrindod. Yno byddwn yn rhannu profiadau a syniadau ar gyfer cydweithio yn y dyfodol. Bydd hynny yn arwain at ymagwedd tuag at wasanaethau ar draws y ffiniau sydd yn canolbwyntio’n fwy ar ddefnyddwyr, cynhalwyr a phobl. Cynigiaf felly fod y Cynulliad Cenedlaethol yn cefnogi’r cynnig i symud y gwaith pwysig hwn ymlaen.
Cynigiaf welliant 1. Ychwaneger cymal newydd at ddiwedd y cynnig:
I propose amendment 1. Add a new clause at the end of the motion:
Diolchaf i Jane am ei datganiad. Datganaf fy muddiant arferol fel meddyg teulu ac fel cynghorydd sir yn Abertawe. Yr wyf yn gweithio yn y gwasanaeth iechyd ac mewn llywodraeth leol, ac felly yr wyf yn pontio’r gagendor y sonnir amdano y prynhawn hwn. Croesawaf y gwelliannau sydd yn y rheoliadau hyn a fydd yn cyfrannu i’r flaenoriaeth bresennol o gydweithio gwell rhwng y gwahanol adrannau.
I thank Jane for her statement. I declare my usual interest as a general practitioner and as a county councillor in Swansea. I work in the health service and in local government, and I therefore bridge the gap that we are talking about this afternoon. I welcome the improvements in these regulations, which will contribute to the current priority of improved co-operation between the various departments.
Mae’r cydweithio hwn rhwng y gwasanaeth iechyd a gofal cymdeithasol yn allweddol i ddatblygiad gwasanaethau sydd yn gofalu am bobl yng Nghymru. Mae esiamplau clodwiw—a chlywsom amdanynt gan Jane; nid ymhelaethaf oherwydd amser—o’r cydweithio hwn. Fodd bynnag, mae angen strategaeth glir o’r ffordd ymlaen yn y tymor hir. Rhaid sicrhau cyllideb ddigonol i alluogi cydweithio effeithiol rhwng iechyd a’r gwasanaethau cymdeithasol. Wedi’r cyfan, yr ydym yn sôn am ‘pooled budgets’ ac nid fel y dywedodd rhywun wrthyf, ‘pooled deficits’.
This collaboration between the health service and community care is crucial to the development of care services for people in Wales. There are praiseworthy examples—and we heard of them from Jane; I will not elaborate because of time constraints—of this collaboration. However, we need a clear strategy of the way forward in the long-term. We must secure an adequate budget to enable effective collaboration between health and social services. After all, we are talking about pooled budgets, and not as somebody said to me, pooled deficits.
Mae lle i wella cydweithio ar rai agweddau ar hyn o bryd megis y gwasanaethau plant, y gwasanaethau iechyd meddwl, gofal am yr oedrannus a chamddefnyddio cyffuriau. Bydd y rheoliadau hyn yn helpu’n sylweddol i ddatblygu mwy o hyblygrwydd a chydweithio yn ein gwasanaethau gofal. Fodd bynnag, fel y dywedais eisoes, mae angen strategaeth glir. Nid oes gweledigaeth bell-gyrhaeddol, glir, dymor-hir ar hyn o bryd. Yn Lloegr, mae rhai ymddiriedolaethau iechyd a gofal yn bodoli eisoes, ac eraill i ddod. Yn naturiol, nid wyf yn ffafrio hynny fel ateb oherwydd byddai’r elfen ddemocrataidd yn cael ei cholli a syniadau’r farchnad yn dod i faes gofal. Fodd bynnag, rhaid i’r partneriaethau hyn—yr ydym yn gytûn eu bod yn syniad da—dyfu a datblygu.
There is scope for improving collaboration in some fields at present such as children’s services, mental health services, care for the elderly and drug abuse. These regulations will help substantially to develop more flexibility and collaboration in our care services. However, as I have already said, we need a clear strategy. There is no clear, long-term, far-reaching vision at present. In England, some health and social care trusts already exist, and others will follow. Naturally, I do not favour that as a solution because we would lose the democratic element and market ideas would be introduced to the care sector. However, these partnerships—we all agree that they are a good idea—must grow and develop.
Rhaid i’r Llywodraeth hon gael strategaeth glir, gyda phroses o adolygu ynghlwm wrthi. Dylem ddefnyddio adnoddau’r Pwyllgor Iechyd a Gwasanaethau Cymdeithasol i adolygu ac archwilio syniadau’r weinyddiaeth ar y ffordd ymlaen. Er fy mod yn cytuno â phopeth a ddywedodd Jane, nid wyf am dynnu’r gwelliant yn ôl oherwydd fy mod eisiau’r pwyslais hwnnw ar allu’r Pwyllgor i archwilio perfformiad y Llywodraeth.
This Government must have a clear strategy, with a review process attached to it. We should use the resources of the Health and Social Services Committee to review and scrutinise the administration’s ideas on the way forward. Although I agree with everything that Jane said, I do not wish to withdraw the amendment because I want that emphasis on the Committee’s ability to scrutinise the Government’s performance.
Nid yw hyn yn fater o gytuno ar y syniadau clodwiw hyn a chydweithio yn unig. Mae’r syniadau’n dda, ond rhaid sicrhau eu bod yn ymarferol. Mater ydyw o warantu gwir wahaniaeth i’n cleifion a’n pobl. Er mwyn galluogi hynny, yn ogystal â’r datblygiadau cyffrous hyn, mae angen proses fanwl o archwilio polisïau’r Llywodraeth hon yn y Pwyllgor Iechyd a Gwasanaethau Cymdeithasol i sicrhau bod y datblygiadau hyn yn rhai tymor hir.
This is not a case of simply agreeing on these praiseworthy ideas and collaborating. The ideas are good, but we must ensure that they are workable. It is a matter of guaranteeing a real difference for our patients and people. To enable that to happen, in addition to these exciting developments, we need a detailed process of scrutinising the Health and Social Services Committee’s policies to ensure that these developments are long-term.
While these Orders have long and complicated titles, and perhaps at first glance appear not to be interesting, the powers contained in them provide hugely exciting opportunities in driving forward health care in Wales. For too long, the artificial barriers that have existed between health and social care have resulted in disjointed services for patients, frustration for staff and inappropriate use of vital resources. These provisions will unlock the enthusiasm that exists in Wales for joint working and collaboration. Jane talked about some examples and I pay tribute to the work being undertaken in the Dyfed Powys area. In Powys this winter, health authority, voluntary sector money and local authority money will provide a home from hospital scheme to allow for the swift and safe discharge of patients from hospitals, a rapid response team to try and prevent admissions to hospitals in the first place, and pilot schemes for a rehabilitation service based on multi-disciplinary teams of individuals working in Ystradgynlais and Brecon to ensure that people are maintained at good levels of health in their own homes.
Er bod teitlau hir a chymhleth i’r Gorchmynion hyn, ac efallai ar yr olwg gyntaf ymddengys nad ydynt yn ddiddorol, mae’r pwerau sydd ynddynt yn rhoi cyfleoedd hynod gyffrous i wthio gofal iechyd ymlaen yng Nghymru. Am gyfnod llawer rhy hir, bu rhwystrau artiffisial rhwng iechyd a gofal cymdeithasol gan arwain at wasanaethau digyswllt i’r cleifion, rhwystredigaeth gan y staff a defnydd amhriodol o adnoddau holl bwysig. Bydd y darpariaethau hyn yn rhyddhau’r brwdfrydedd sydd yn bodoli yng Nghymru ar gyfer cydweithio. Soniodd Jane am rai enghreifftiau a thalaf deyrnged i’r gwaith a wneir yn ardal Dyfed Powys. Ym Mhowys y gaeaf hwn bydd arian yr awdurdod iechyd, y sector gwirfoddol a’r awdurdod lleol yn darparu cynllun gartref o’r ysbyty a fydd yn caniatáu rhyddhau cleifion o’r ysbyty yn gyflym a diogel, tîm ymateb cyflym yn ceisio atal derbyn cleifion i’r ysbytai yn y lle cyntaf, a chynlluniau peilot ar gyfer gwasanaeth adsefydlu yn seiliedig ar dimau amlddisgyblaeth o unigolion sydd yn gweithio yn Ystradgynlais ac Aberhonddu er mwyn sicrhau y caiff pobl eu cynnal mewn iechyd da yn eu cartrefi eu hunain.
There is vision and, as Jane said, the draft budget has supplied the beginnings of financial resources. I am concerned—Jane referred to this in her speech—that these powers are permissive, which means that people do not have to do this. Health authorities and trusts, local authorities and voluntary organisations do not have to participate in this joint working. While I am in favour of trying to use the carrot rather than the stick, the Assembly, when these Orders have been approved and have had time to bed in and when people have had the opportunity to work to them, must revisit these issues to ensure that others are taking up their opportunities. If they are not doing so, we must consider what powers we are willing to invoke to ensure that that happens. We must be brave enough to use the stick if the carrot fails, because those opportunities will provide vastly improved services to patients.
Mae gweledigaeth ac, fel y dywedodd Jane, mae’r gyllideb ddrafft wedi dechrau rhoi adnoddau ariannol. Yr wyf yn pryderu—cyfeiriodd Jane at hyn yn ei haraith—fod y pwerau hyn yn rhai caniataol, a olyga nad oes gorfodaeth ar bobl i wneud hyn. Nid oes rhaid i awdurdodau ac ymddiriedolaethau iechyd, awdurdodau lleol a sefydliadau gwirfoddol gymryd rhan yn y cydweithio hwn. Er fy mod o blaid ceisio darbwyllo yn hytrach na gorfodi, bydd yn rhaid i’r Cynulliad, pan gaiff y Gorchmynion hyn eu cymeradwyo a phan fyddant wedi cael amser i ymsefydlu a phan fydd pobl wedi cael cyfle i weithio yn unol â hwy, ddychwelyd at y materion hyn er mwyn sicrhau bod pobl eraill yn bachu ar y cyfle. Os nad ydynt yn gwneud hynny, rhaid inni ystyried pa bwerau yr ydym yn fodlon eu defnyddio er mwyn sicrhau y digwydd hynny. Rhaid inni fod yn ddigon dewr i orfodi os na lwyddwn i ddarbwyllo, gan y bydd y cyfleoedd hyn yn rhoi gwasanaethau gwell o lawer i’r cleifion.
On amendment 1, speaking in my capacity as a Liberal Democrat member of the Health and Social Services Committee, rather than its Chair—as Chair I am bound to abide by any decisions taken by the Assembly—Dai Lloyd seems slightly schizophrenic in his request—
Ynglŷn â gwelliant 1, a chan siarad fel un o aelodau’r Democratiaid Rhyddfrydol o’r Pwyllgor Iechyd a Gwasanaethau Cymdeithasol, yn hytrach na’i Gadeirydd—fel Cadeirydd, yr wyf yn rhwym wrth unrhyw benderfyniad a wna’r Cynulliad—ymddengys fod Dai Lloyd ychydig yn sgitsoffrenig ynglŷn â’i gais—
Point of order. You cannot call one of our Members schizophrenic. That is ridiculous.
Pwynt o drefn. Ni ellir galw un o’n Haelodau yn sgitsoffrenig. Mae hynny’n hurt.
Dafydd Elis-Thomas The Presiding Officer spoken in English p. 55
Dafydd Elis-Thomas Y Llywydd siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 55
Order. I am grateful to Jocelyn for drawing my attention to that.
Trefn. Yr wyf yn ddiolchgar i Jocelyn am dynnu fy sylw at hynny.
I withdraw my comment.
Tynnaf fy sylw yn ôl.
Dafydd Elis-Thomas The Presiding Officer spoken in English p. 55
Dafydd Elis-Thomas Llywydd siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 55
I would also ask you to reconsider an earlier statement. I called you to speak as Chair of the Health and Social Services Committee. I always try to call the Chairs of relevant Subject Committees to speak early in a debate. If Chairs of Subject Committees want to mix it—to use a colloquial expression—that is a matter for them.
Gofynnaf ichi hefyd ailystyried datganiad cynharach. Gelwais arnoch i siarad fel Cadeirydd y Pwyllgor Iechyd a Gwasanaethau Cymdeithasol. Yr wyf bob amser yn ceisio galw ar Gadeiryddion y Pwyllgorau Pwnc perthnasol i siarad yn gynnar mewn dadl. Os yw Cadeiryddion Pwyllgorau Pwnc am ei gymysgu mae hwnnw’n fater iddynt hwy.
In the spirit of mixing it, I withdraw my comments and apologise for any offence that they may have caused. The request of Dai’s amendment 1 is unclear. It states that he would like a report on the options and issues involved in the long-term future provision of these services. However, in his speech, he referred to a scrutiny role for the Health and Social Services Committee. I am, therefore, confused as to what Dai is asking the Committee to do at this stage; does he want a report on how to take this further, or does he want the Committee to wait to see what the Executive does and monitor its performance. I assure Dai that I will want to revisit these issues. We will have plenty of opportunity to do that when community services have had the opportunity to embrace and work within the new regulations. Community service providers are aware of what we expect from them, and I would prefer to see the Health and Social Services Committee revisit this issue when the Orders have been in place for some time, so that we can evaluate the effectiveness of how they are being employed in the service.
Mewn ysbryd o gymysgu’r ddau beth, tynnaf fy sylwadau yn ôl gan ymddiheuro os wyf wedi peri tramgwydd. Mae’r cais am welliant 1 Dai yn aneglur. Datgana yr hoffai gael adroddiad ar yr opsiynau a’r materion sydd ynghlwm wrth ddarparu’r gwasanaethau hyn yn y tymor hir yn y dyfodol. Fodd bynnag, yn ei araith, cyfeiriodd at rôl archwilio i’r Pwyllgor Iechyd a Gwasanaethau Cymdeithasol. Yr wyf, felly, yn aneglur ynglŷn â’r hyn y mae Dai yn gofyn i’r Pwyllgor ei wneud ar hyn o bryd; a yw am gael adroddiad ar sut i ddatblygu hyn ymhellach, neu a yw am i’r Pwyllgor aros i weld beth a wna’r Weithrediaeth a monitro ei pherfformiad. Sicrhaf Dai y byddaf innau am ddychwelyd at y materion hyn. Bydd gennym ddigon o gyfle i wneud hynny pan fydd y gwasanaethau cymunedol wedi cael cyfle i fanteisio ar y rheoliadau newydd a’u gweithredu. Mae darparwyr gwasanaethau cymunedol yn ymwybodol o’r hyn a ddisgwyliwn ganddynt, a byddai’n well gennyf weld y Pwyllgor Iechyd a Gwasanaethau Cymdeithasol yn dychwelyd i’r mater hwn pan fydd y Gorchmynion wedi bod mewn bodolaeth ers peth amser, fel y gallwn werthuso pa mor effeithiol y’u defnyddir yn y gwasanaeth.
It is important that we encourage flexible working between health and social care. The administration can rely on the support of the Welsh Conservative Party for all efforts to that effect. We welcome the measures before us, with the sole exception of the fact that they will abolish joint consultative committees. I have placed on record previously my objection to this, along with my fears of what it could do to the planning process and the integration of the voluntary sector. I will not repeat that now. However, lest you think that, by voting with you on this, we are conceding the point on the abolition of joint consultative committees, I remind you that we are opposed to your action on that.
Mae’n bwysig ein bod yn annog gweithio hyblyg rhwng iechyd a gofal cymdeithasol. Gall y weinyddiaeth ddibynnu ar gefnogaeth Plaid Geidwadol Cymru am bob ymdrech i’r diben hwnnw. Croesawn y mesurau sydd ger ein bron, ac un eithriad sef y ffaith y byddant yn diddymu’r cydbwyllgorau ymgynghorol. Nodais eisoes fy ngwrthwynebiad i hyn, ynghyd â’r pryderon ynglŷn â’r effaith y gallai ei chael ar y broses gynllunio ac integreiddio’r sector gwirfoddol. Ni ailadroddaf hynny yn awr. Fodd bynnag, rhag ofn eich bod yn tybio ein bod, drwy bleidleisio gyda chi dros hyn, yn ildio’r pwynt ynglŷn â diddymu’r cydbwyllgorau ymgynghorol, fe’ch atgoffaf ein bod yn gwrthwynebu eich gweithrediad ar hynny.
As Dai Lloyd and Kirsty said, it is essential that these permissive powers are taken up by the health service and local authorities. If they are not used, the benefits from flexible working will not be enjoyed. Dai Lloyd alluded to the fact that, in England, the debate on joint working has been taken one step further in some areas by the establishment of care trusts. That structural reform will probably experience considerable opposition in this Chamber. However, it shows how health and social care is being integrated in some parts of the country. If we are to follow a permissive approach, we must ensure that the authorities concerned realise that we are serious about them using these powers. If they do not use permissive powers, then, at some stage, we will have to review that and consider the next stage forward.
Fel y dywedodd Dai Lloyd a Kirsty, mae’n hanfodol bod y gwasanaeth iechyd ac awdurdodau lleol yn defnyddio’r pwerau caniataol hyn. Os na chânt eu defnyddio, ni ellir elwa ar fanteision gweithio hyblyg. Cyfeiriodd Dai Lloyd at y ffaith bod y ddadl yn Lloegr ynglŷn â chydweithio wedi mynd gam ymlaen mewn rhai meysydd yn sgîl sefydlu ymddiriedolaethau gofal. Bydd cryn wrthwynebiad yn y Siambr hon fwy na thebyg i’r diwygio strwythurol hynny. Fodd bynnag, mae’n dangos sut yr integreiddir iechyd a gofal cymdeithasol mewn rhai rhannau o’r wlad. Os dilynwn ymagwedd ganiataol, rhaid inni sicrhau bod yr awdurdodau dan sylw yn sylweddoli ein bod o ddifrif wrth ddymuno iddynt ddefnyddio’r pwerau hyn. Os na ddefnyddiant bwerau caniataol, yna, rywbryd yn y dyfodol, bydd yn rhaid inni adolygu hynny ac ystyried y cam nesaf ymlaen.
Like Kirsty and Jane, we oppose the amendment put forward by Plaid Cymru. It is not for Plenary to dictate to a Committee. That is an unfortunate phrase. We should allow the Committees to develop their own work plans, and that is currently taking place. Dai has not raised this issue before when the spokespeople have met. I have pushed the issue of the use of permissive, flexible powers in Committee and I would have enthusiastically supported him taking it through the usual channel. However, he did not even discuss this with the other parties before this afternoon’s debate. The first I was aware of his intentions on this matter was when I read the business papers. I do not think that this is ideal, co-operative working.
Fel Kirsty a Jane, gwrthwynebwn y gwelliant a osodwyd gerbron gan Blaid Cymru. Nid gwaith y Cyfarfod Llawn yw dweud y drefn wrth y Pwyllgorau. Mae hwnnw’n ymadrodd anffodus. Dylem ganiatáu i’r Pwyllgorau ddatblygu eu cynlluniau gwaith eu hunain, a digwydd hynny ar hyn o bryd. Ni chododd Dai y mater hwn cyn hyn pan gyfarfu llefarwyr y pleidiau. Euthum ar drywydd mater defnyddio pwerau caniataol, hyblyg yn y Pwyllgor a byddwn wedi ei gefnogi’n frwd pe bai wedi ei godi drwy’r sianel arferol. Fodd bynnag, ni thrafododd hyn hyd yn oed gyda’r pleidiau eraill cyn y ddadl y prynhawn yma. Yr amcan cyntaf a gefais o’i fwriad ar y mater hwn oedd pan ddarllenais y papurau busnes. Ni chredaf fod hyn yn gydweithredu delfrydol.
To have the words ‘recommends’ and ‘mandate’ in the same sentence is a flat contradiction. You may call me old-fashioned, but I was taught that the first principle of logic was that something could not be ‘A’ and ‘not A’ simultaneously.
Mae cynnwys y geiriau ‘argymell’ a ‘mandadu’ yn yr un frawddeg yn gwbl groes. Gallech ddweud fy mod yn hen ffasiwn, ond fe’m dysgwyd mai egwyddor gyntaf rhesymeg oedd na allai rywbeth fod yn ‘A’ a ‘ddim yn A’ ar yr un pryd.
The Orders today give us the opportunity to herald the start of a new era in partnership, which will affect the lives of all the people of Wales. I welcome these Orders and commend Jane Hutt, the Minister for Health and Social Services, on the Orders that she has proposed.
Mae’r Gorchmynion heddiw yn rhoi cyfle inni gychwyn oes newydd o bartneriaeth, a fydd yn effeithio ar fywydau holl bobl Cymru. Croesawaf y Gorchmynion hyn gan gymeradwyo Jane Hutt, y Gweinidog dros Iechyd a Gwasanaethau Cymdeithasol, ar y Gorchmynion a gynigiodd.
I cannot support Dai Lloyd’s amendment 1, although I respect his approach in wanting to work to improve people’s lives, in terms of health, throughout Wales. I agree with what was said earlier. I do not think that the amendment is appropriate. The reasons have already been adequately explained.
Ni allaf gefnogi gwelliant 1 Dai Lloyd, er fy mod yn parchu ei ymagwedd tuag at ddymuno gweithio i wella bywydau pobl, o ran iechyd, ledled Cymru. Cytunaf â’r hyn a ddywedwyd yn gynharach. Ni chredaf fod y gwelliant yn briodol. Eglurwyd y rhesymau eisoes yn ddigonol.
Coming from a place like Blaenau Gwent, where we have terrible health problems, I know that we need all the help that we can get in joint-working. Partnership with local government and the national health service is vital for us. I must pay tribute to the Blaenau Gwent local health group that has already worked successfully, in pilot form, with the Blaenau Gwent County Borough Council, the Gwent Healthcare NHS Trust and the community health council. They have all worked in partnership to deal with the major problems that exist in that area. I complement the Welsh Local Government Association and the NHS Confederation in Wales on how they have worked together, with the Minister, to support bringing forward these Orders today. It is important that we have this people-centred approach to which Jane referred. In future, we must make a difference for people in deprived communities throughout Wales, and there are many such communities, not simply my own constituency.
A minnau’n hanu o le fel Blaenau Gwent, lle mae gennym broblemau iechyd dybryd, gwn fod angen pob cymorth posibl arnom o ran cydweithio. Mae partneriaeth â llywodraeth leol a’r gwasanaeth iechyd gwladol yn hanfodol inni. Rhaid imi dalu teyrnged i grŵp iechyd lleol Blaenau Gwent sydd eisoes wedi gweithio’n llwyddiannus ar ffurf peilot, gyda Chyngor Bwrdeistref Sirol Blaenau Gwent, Ymddiriedolaeth NHS Gofal Iechyd Gwent a’r cyngor iechyd cymunedol. Maent oll wedi gweithio mewn partneriaeth i ymdrin â’r problemau sylweddol sydd yn bodoli yn yr ardal honno. Yr wyf yn canmol Cymdeithas Llywodraeth Leol Cymru a Chonffederasiwn yr NHS yng Nghymru am y ffordd y maent wedi gweithio gyda’i gilydd, gyda’r Gweinidog, i helpu i gyflwyno’r Gorchmynion hyn gerbron heddiw. Mae’n bwysig ein bod yn mabwysiadu’r ymagwedd hon y cyfeiriodd Jane ati sydd yn canolbwyntio ar bobl. Yn y dyfodol, rhaid inni wneud gwahaniaeth i bobl mewn cymunedau difreintiedig ledled Cymru, ac mae llawer o gymunedau o’r fath, nid yn unig yn fy etholaeth i.
It is interesting that a professional speech therapist wrote to me and made the point, which is well-emphasised in joint-working, about the difficulties that exist in the Gwent area—and I am sure that this is mirrored throughout Wales as a whole—regarding children with special educational needs. We must get to grips with that, and the only way that we can do it is by working in partnership together, because access to learning language and communication is everybody’s right. I am concerned, as I am sure are all Assembly Members, that there is sadly an escalating number of young children that need specialist support. That has not always been seen and provided for.
Mae’n ddiddorol i therapydd lleferydd proffesiynol ysgrifennu ataf gan wneud y pwynt, a bwysleisir ddigon mewn cydweithio, ynglŷn â’r anawsterau sydd yn bodoli yn ardal Gwent—ac yr wyf yn siŵr bod hyn yn digwydd ledled Cymru gyfan hefyd—o ran plant ag anghenion addysg arbennig. Rhaid inni fynd i’r afael â hynny, a’r unig ffordd y gallwn wneud hynny yw drwy gydweithio mewn partneriaeth, am fod gan bawb hawl i ddysgu iaith a chyfathrebu. Pryderaf, fel y mae pob Aelod o’r Cynulliad, mae’n siŵr, ynghylch y ffaith drist bod angen cymorth arbenigol ar nifer gynyddol o blant bach. Ni welwyd hynny bob amser ac ni ddarparwyd ar ei gyfer.
We are at a time in Gwent, for instance, where the case load per speech therapist is 20 children. In October this year, it will increase to 60 plus per therapist. That is the situation. There is a waiting list in Gwent of over 1,900 who are waiting for assessment and treatment for paediatric speech and language therapy.
Yr ydym mewn sefyllfa yng Ngwent, er enghraifft, lle mae baich gwaith o 20 o blant gan bob therapydd lleferydd. Ym mis Hydref eleni, bydd yn cynyddu i dros 60 fesul therapydd. Dyna’r sefyllfa. Mae rhestr aros yng Ngwent yn cynnwys dros 1,900 sydd yn aros am asesiad a thriniaeth ar gyfer therapi lleferydd a iaith pediatrig.
Great work is currently being done by the Special Needs Advisory Project Cymru and the Association for All Speech Impaired Children. I pay tribute to them. They are voluntary and they rely on support from lottery funding, which AFASIC failed to get this year in Gwent. In fact, the local education authority support that I would have liked to have seen for the special needs advisory project worker in Gwent has not been forthcoming either. In Monmouthshire, for instance, the authority has not funded the acquisition of a part-time development officer who was made redundant on 31 October. That is unfortunate. Much work needs to be done. The Minister is considering a special revised draft code of practice for special educational needs. I hope that it will be brought before us, because there are major changes in it that need to be discussed.
Mae Prosiect Ymgynghorol Anghenion Arbennig Cymru a Chymdeithas yr Holl Blant â Nam ar eu Lleferydd yn gwneud gwaith gwych ar hyn o bryd. Talaf deyrnged iddynt. Maent yn wirfoddolwyr ac yn dibynnu ar gymorth arian loteri, y methodd Cymdeithas yr Holl Blant â Nam ar eu Lleferydd ei gael eleni yng Ngwent. Yn wir, nid yw’r awdurdod addysg lleol wedi rhoi’r cymorth yr hoffwn fod wedi ei weld ar gyfer gweithiwr prosiect ymgynghorol anghenion arbennig yng Ngwent chwaith. Yn Sir Fynwy, er enghraifft, nid yw’r awdurdod wedi ariannu penodi swyddog datblygu rhan amser a ddiswyddwyd ar 31 Hydref. Mae hynny’n anffodus. Mae angen gwneud llawer o waith. Mae’r Gweinidog yn ystyried côd ymarfer drafft diwygiedig arbennig ar gyfer anghenion addysg arbennig. Gobeithiaf y caiff ei osod ger ein bron, am fod newidiadau sylweddol ynddo y mae angen eu trafod.
Blaenau Gwent is a blackspot for heart disease. Many people there suffer from respiratory diseases. It has a lower number of childcare places per 1,000 than any other part of Wales. More children are put in care in Blaenau Gwent than in any other part of Wales. It has the highest number of conceptions under the age of 18. It has 9.7 per cent low birth weight, which is the highest percentage in Wales. In such a place, with so many other problems, these proposals are vital.
Mae Blaenau Gwent yn fan drwg am glefyd y galon. Mae llawer o bobl yno yn dioddef o afiechydon anadlol. Mae ganddo nifer is o leoliadau gofal plant fesul 1,000 o blant nag unrhyw ran arall o Gymru. Rhoddir mwy o blant mewn gofal ym Mlaenau Gwent nag unrhyw ran arall o Gymru. Yno mae’r nifer uchaf o feichiogi o dan 18 oed. Mae’r gyfradd pwysau geni isel yn 9.7 y cant, sef y ganran uchaf yng Nghymru. Yn y fath le, sydd â chymaint o broblemau eraill, mae’r cynigion hyn yn holl bwysig.
We need partnership working to make a difference for the people in these communities. The Assembly is conducting its business in the right way. It is tackling the needs of communities throughout Wales through a partnership approach, using the resources that are available in our local authorities, health trusts, health authorities and local health groups to make that difference. I agree with David Melding’s comment. If these regulations and partnerships are to make a difference then they must be used fully. We must insist that each of the important authorities that carry out good work for this National Assembly uses those powers to make a difference in the communities that they represent. That is the only way that we can support Jane Hutt’s excellent approach to improving people’s health and making a difference to their lives. I support that. I commend these regulations and I look forward to a fruitful partnership between these organisations.
Mae angen i weithio mewn partneriaeth er mwyn gwneud gwahaniaeth i bobl y cymunedau hyn. Mae’r Cynulliad yn ymddwyn yn briodol. Mae’n mynd i’r afael ag anghenion cymunedau ledled Cymru drwy ymagwedd bartneriaeth, gan ddefnyddio’r adnoddau sydd ar gael yn ein hawdurdodau lleol, ein hymddiriedolaethau iechyd, ein hawdurdodau iechyd a’n grwpiau iechyd lleol er mwyn gwneud gwahaniaeth. Cytunaf â sylw David Melding. Er mwyn i’r rheoliadau a’r partneriaethau hyn wneud gwahaniaeth yna rhaid iddynt gael eu defnyddio’n llawn. Rhaid inni fynnu bod pob un o’r awdurdodau pwysig sydd yn cyflawni’r gwaith da i’r Cynulliad Cenedlaethol hwn yn defnyddio’r pwerau hynny i wneud gwahaniaeth yn y cymunedau a gynrychiolant. Dyna’r unig ffordd y gallwn gefnogi ymagwedd ardderchog Jane Hutt tuag at wella iechyd pobl a gwneud gwahaniaeth i’w bywydau. Cefnogaf hynny. Cymeradwyaf y rheoliadau hyn ac edrychaf ymlaen at bartneriaeth lewyrchus rhwng y sefydliadau hyn.
I declare an interest as a pharmacist in contract to Bro Taf Health Authority and as a member of Rhondda Cynon Taff County Borough Council.
Datganaf fuddiant fel fferyllydd sydd â chontract gydag Awdurdod Iechyd Bro Taf ac fel aelod o Gyngor Bwrdeistref Sirol Rhondda Cynon Taf.
The Assembly must welcome the partnership arrangements between the health service, social services and voluntary bodies described under these statutory instruments. I am sure that staff in the relevant services will welcome them also. However, the people who will welcome these proposals most of all will be patients. They are the main beneficiaries. It seems inevitable that this system will result in better and more appropriate care for patients. The current division between health and social care is totally artificial. The sooner this becomes seamless care the better it will be for all concerned.
Rhaid i’r Cynulliad groesawu’r trefniadau partneriaeth rhwng y gwasanaeth iechyd, gwasanaethau cymdeithasol a’r cyrff gwirfoddol a ddisgrifir o dan yr offerynnau statudol hyn. Yr wyf yn siŵr y bydd y staff yn y gwasanaethau perthnasol yn eu croesawu hefyd. Fodd bynnag, y bobl a fydd yn croesawu’r cynigion hyn fwyaf fydd y cleifion. Hwy sydd yn elwa fwyaf. Mae fel petai’n anochel y bydd y system hon yn arwain at ofal gwell a mwy priodol i gleifion. Mae’r rhaniad presennol rhwng iechyd a gofal cymdeithasol yn hollol artiffisial. Gorau po gyntaf y daw gofal didor i bawb.
The previous system encouraged the off-loading of patients from one section of care to another to safeguard budgets. That was done at the patient’s expense. However, partnership is about much more than just safeguarding budgets. It has great potential to improve the services provided.
Yr oedd y system flaenorol yn annog symud cleifion o’r naill adran gofal i’r llall er mwyn diogelu cyllidebau. Gwnaethpwyd hynny ar draul y claf. Fodd bynnag, mae diben partneriaeth llawer mwy na diogelu cyllidebau. Mae iddo botensial mawr i wella’r gwasanaethau a ddarperir.
My own authority, Rhondda Cynon Taff, has instigated several initiatives with the local health group to improve patient care. For example, the health group has been linked to social services and the voluntary body, Care and Repair, to ensure that repairs or essential adaptations to houses are facilitated rapidly to prevent inappropriate admission to hospital in the first instance and to prevent delay in discharging the patient from hospital following treatment. A rapid response team has been linked to the GP on-call system and to the accident and emergency unit to give urgent support to patients over a crisis period, thus preventing unnecessary admission to hospital.
Dechreuodd fy awdurdod i, Rhondda Cynon Taf, sawl menter gyda’r grŵp iechyd lleol er mwyn gwella gofal cleifion. Er enghraifft, cysylltwyd y grŵp iechyd â’r gwasanaethau cymdeithasol a’r corff gwirfoddol, Care and Repair, er mwyn sicrhau y caiff gwaith atgyweirio neu addasiadau hanfodol mewn tai eu hwyluso’n gyflym er mwyn atal derbyniadau amhriodol i’r ysbytai yn y lle cyntaf ac atal oedi cyn rhyddhau’r claf o’r ysbyty yn dilyn triniaeth. Cysylltwyd tîm ymateb cyflym â’r system meddygon teulu ar ddyletswydd a’r uned damweiniau ac achosion brys i roi cymorth brys i gleifion mewn argyfwng, a thrwy hynny atal derbyn cleifion i’r ysbyty yn ddiangen.
Another initiative involves the local GP working with social services in the assessment and long-term support of the patient. As a pharmacist, I know that medication support is an important initiative. Often patients leave hospital on complex medication regimes, which they are unable to follow. That can be a major factor in people having to give up their homes and enter residential and nursing homes prematurely.
Mae menter arall yn ymwneud â meddyg teulu lleol yn gweithio gyda’r gwasanaethau cymdeithasol wrth asesu a chynorthwyo cleifion yn y tymor hir. Fel fferyllydd, gwn fod cymorth meddyginiaethol yn fenter bwysig. Yn aml, mae cleifion yn gadael yr ysbyty ar drefn feddyginiaethol gymhleth, na allant ei dilyn. Gall hynny fod yn un o’r prif ffactorau pan fydd yn rhaid i bobl roi’r gorau i fyw yn eu cartrefi a mynd i fyw mewn cartref preswyl neu nyrsio cyn pryd.
These are some of the benefits than can result from joined-up working and funding. Initiatives such as these are important, particularly in view of the cold weather pressures on hospital beds that occurred last winter and are beginning to occur now. However, in any new arrangement there are pitfalls which are often found in the detail of arrangements. That is the reasoning behind the second clause of Dai Lloyd’s amendment. We need to take a close look at the detail. For example, home visits by social services home care workers are charged, whereas home visits by district nurses are not. The potential confusion around charging was a particular issue in the consultation process. The Committee’s draft guidance on section 31 may, in part, be regarded as somewhat underhand. I refer in particular to paragraph 9.6, which states:
Dyma rai o’r buddiannau a all ddeillio o weithio ac ariannu di-fwlch. Mae mentrau fel y rhain yn bwysig, yn enwedig o ystyried pwysau’r tywydd oer ar welyau ysbytai a ddigwyddodd yn y gaeaf y llynedd ac sydd yn dechrau digwydd yn awr. Fodd bynnag, mae gwendidau mewn unrhyw drefniant newydd sydd yn aml i’w canfod ym manylion y trefniadau. Dyna’r rheswm dros ail gymal gwelliant Dai Lloyd. Mae angen inni astudio’r manylion yn fanwl. Er enghraifft, codir tâl am ymweliadau cartref gan weithwyr gofal cartref y gwasanaethau cymdeithasol, er na chodir tâl gan nyrsys ardal. Yr oedd y dryswch posibl ynglŷn â thaliadau yn un o’r materion a godwyd yn arbennig yn y broses ymgynghori. Gellir ystyried bod arweiniad drafft y Pwyllgor ar adran 31, ychydig yn ddichellgar i raddau. Cyfeiriaf at baragraff 9.6 yn benodol, sydd yn datgan:
‘Where charging is likely to apply, the arrangements will need to be carefully explained to users of services, to avoid any misunderstanding that NHS services which are provided free elsewhere are being charged for. It would be advantageous to explain this during the assessment process, and before the service has begun to be delivered to the user.’
‘Lle bo’n debygol y codir tâl, bydd angen i’r trefniadau gael eu hesbonio’n ofalus i ddefnyddwyr gwasanaethau, er mwyn osgoi unrhyw gamddealltwriaeth bod tâl yn cael ei godi am wasanaethau NHS a ddarperir am ddim mewn mannau eraill. Byddai’n fanteisiol pe gellid esbonio hyn yn ystod y broses asesu, a chyn dechrau darparu’r gwasanaeth i’r defnyddiwr.’
It is essential that this situation is monitored. We must ensure that it is uniform throughout Wales and that there is no further extension of charging for services than that which exists under the present arrangements.
Mae’n hanfodol bod y sefyllfa hon yn cael ei monitro. Rhaid inni sicrhau ei bod yn gyson ledled Cymru ac na chaiff taliadau a godir am wasanaethau eu hymestyn ymhellach na’r hyn sydd yn bodoli o dan y trefniadau presennol.
Another concern is that we must not allow joint working to be a disguise for lack of resources. Organisations will be reluctant to allocate scarce resources to pooled budgets at the expense of budgets for which they are 100 per cent responsible. Adequate resources are essential for success. Concerns were also raised by the Swansea University study, ‘Beds and Bureaucracy’. It highlighted major obstacles that existed because of the differences between organisations in relation to their information systems. The voluntary sector has expressed concern over funding and has expressed a need for funding prior to the commencement of the scheme as opposed to afterwards.
Pryder arall yw bod yn rhaid inni sicrhau nad yw cydweithio yn cuddio diffyg adnoddau. Bydd sefydliadau yn amharod i ddyrannu adnoddau prin i gyllidebau cyfunol ar draul cyllidebau y maent yn gwbl gyfrifol amdanynt. Rhaid wrth ddigon o adnoddau i lwyddo. Codwyd pryderon hefyd mewn astudiaeth gan Brifysgol Abertawe o’r enw ‘Gwelyau a Biwrocratiaeth’. Nododd y rhwystrau mawr sydd yn bodoli oherwydd y gwahaniaethau rhwng sefydliadau o ran eu systemau gwybodaeth. Mae’r sector gwirfoddol wedi mynegi pryder ynglŷn ag arian a bod angen arian cyn i’r cynllun gychwyn yn hytrach nag ar ôl iddo gychwyn.
Plaid Cymru—The Party of Wales welcomes these proposals. They are a major step forward. However, we need to look carefully at the practical problems that may arise. I urge you to support the amendment’s call for a report to be produced by the Health and Social Services Committee to consider the implications and potential problems of these proposals.
Mae Plaid Cymru—The Party of Wales yn croesawu’r cynigion hyn. Maent yn gam mawr ymlaen. Fodd bynnag, mae angen inni ystyried yn ofalus y problemau ymarferol a all godi. Apeliaf arnoch i gefnogi’r cais yn y gwelliant am adroddiad gan y Pwyllgor Iechyd a Gwasanaethau Cymdeithasol a fydd yn ystyried goblygiadau a phroblemau posibl y cynigion hyn.
I feel that I rise like a fish to the bait in this contribution. I want to take issue with some of the things that Dai said in his contribution, in particular his comment that this was an opportunity not for the pooling of budgets but, potentially for the pooling of deficits. In light of the fact that we have had record increases in spending on health and social services, his comment is a little out of order and against the spirit of the co-operative mood that surrounds this issue.
Teimlaf fy mod fel pysgodyn yn codi i’r abwyd yn y cyfraniad hwn. Hoffwn herio rhai o’r pethau a ddywedodd Dai yn ei gyfraniad, yn enwedig ei sylw bod hwn yn gyfle nid yn unig i gyfuno cyllidebau ond i gyfuno diffygion o bosibl. Yng ngoleuni’r ffaith bod gennym gynnydd na welwyd ei debyg erioed o’r blaen yn y gwariant ar iechyd a gwasanaethau cymdeithasol, mae ei sylw yn annerbyniol braidd ac yn groes i ysbryd cydweithredol y mater hwn.
Dai Lloyd’s comment is in line with what Phil Williams said in his contribution on the draft budget. He drew our attention to the fact that the Health and Social Services budget in Wales increased by 8.6 per cent compared to the Department of Health budget in London of 9.3 per cent. When you look at the figures, you will see that the Department of Health budget covers far more issues than the NHS. The overall increase in NHS and social services spending in England is 8.3 per cent compared to 8.6 per cent in Wales. This is contrary to the impression that Phil Williams gave in his contribution, saying that this administration was robbing health and education to pay for Objective 1.
Mae sylw Dai Lloyd yn gyson â’r hyn a ddywedodd Phil Williams yn ei gyfraniad ar y gyllideb ddrafft. Tynnodd ein sylw at y ffaith bod y gyllideb Iechyd a Gwasanaethau Cymdeithasol yng Nghymru wedi cynyddu 8.6 y cant o’i chymharu â chynnydd o 9.3 y cant yng nghyllideb yr Adran Iechyd yn Llundain. O edrych ar y ffigurau, fe welwch fod cyllideb yr Adran Iechyd yn cwmpasu llawer mwy o faterion na’r NHS. Cyfanswm cynnydd cyffredinol gwariant yr NHS a’r gwasanaethau cymdeithasol yn Lloegr yw 8.3 y cant o’i gymharu â 8.6 y cant yng Nghymru. Mae hyn yn groes i’r argraff a roddodd Phil Williams yn ei gyfraniad, wrth ddweud bod y weinyddiaeth hon yn dwyn oddi wrth iechyd ac addysg i dalu am Amcan 1.
Joint working, joint planning and pooled budgets must be the way forward. I am pleased that the Minister for Health and Social Services has mentioned the good practice that already exists. However, will the Minister recognise that there remains a need for clear lines of accountability between one statutory body and another and that there is a need to recognise the rights of carers and patients at the point of discharge from hospital? I have found it extremely difficult, sometimes impossible, to find explanatory leaflets. It can be a horrendous experience for people when their loved ones must be discharged without adequate case conferences having taken place. Do you accept the need for clear criteria on the assessment of what constitutes nursing care?
Rhaid inni gydweithio, cydgynllunio a chyfuno cyllidebau i gymryd cam ymlaen. Mae’n dda gennyf fod y Gweinidog dros Iechyd a Gwasanaethau Cymdeithasol wedi sôn am yr arfer da sydd yn bodoli eisoes. Fodd bynnag, a fydd y Gweinidog yn cydnabod bod angen llinellau clir o atebolrwydd o hyd rhwng y naill gorff statudol a’r llall a bod angen cydnabod hawliau cynhalwyr a chleifion wrth gael eu rhyddhau o’r ysbyty? Cefais hi’n hynod anodd, yn amhosibl weithiau, i ddod o hyd i daflenni eglurhaol. Gall fod yn brofiad ofnadwy i bobl pan fydd yn rhaid i’w hanwyliaid gael eu rhyddhau o’r ysbyty heb fod digon o gynadleddau achos wedi eu cynnal. A dderbyniwch fod angen meini prawf clir ar asesu ystyr gofal nyrsio?
Thank you for the positive comments that have come through this debate. There has been recognition that the opportunities provided by the new resources and the new flexibilities will deliver better services for the people of Wales. I respond to Dai Lloyd’s amendment 1. I said earlier that we are moving towards an NHS strategy for Wales which fully covers the flexibilities and the way in which we will drive forward joint working between health and social services. David said eloquently that I had not asked for this to be put on the agenda of our forward look discussions. Dai, you are effective in your policy input and your scrutiny in the Health and Social Services Committee. I hope that the whole Assembly will see that we will be judged against how we deliver, as Kirsty said, in terms of these joint flexibilities. Scrutiny is your prerogative and you are effective in it. I hope that colleagues will recognise that we do not need amendment 1, which mandates the Health and Social Services Committee. There will be regular monthly reports from me about how these regulations are being implemented and how this joint working is driven forward.
Diolch yn fawr am y sylwadau adeiladol a gafwyd yn y ddadl hon. Cydnabuwyd y bydd y cyfleoedd a roddir gan yr adnoddau newydd a’r dulliau hyblyg newydd yn cyflwyno gwell gwasanaethau i bobl Cymru. Ymatebaf i welliant 1 Dai Lloyd. Dywedais yn gynharach ein bod yn symud tuag at strategaeth NHS ar gyfer Cymru sydd yn cwmpasu’r dulliau hyblyg a’r ffordd y gallwn wthio cydweithio rhwng iechyd a gwasanaethau cymdeithasol ymlaen. Dywedodd David yn huawdl na ofynnais i hyn gael ei roi ar agenda ein trafodaethau rhagolwg. Dai, yr ydych yn effeithiol o ran eich cyfraniad i bolisïau ac wrth graffu ar waith y Pwyllgor Iechyd a Gwasanaethau Cymdeithasol. Gobeithiaf y bydd y Cynulliad cyfan yn gweld y cawn ein barnu ar ein cyflawniad, fel y dywedodd Kirsty, o ran y dulliau hyblyg hyn ar y cyd. Mae hawl gennych i graffu ac yr ydych yn effeithiol yn hyn o beth. Mae gwelliant 1 yn mandadu’r Pwyllgor Iechyd a Gwasanaethau Cymdeithasol a gobeithiaf y bydd fy nghyd-Aelodau yn cydnabod nad oes ei angen arnom. Cyflwynaf adroddiadau misol rheolaidd ar sut y gweithredir y rheoliadau hyn a sut y caiff y cydweithio hwn ei wthio ymlaen.
We are only part of the arrangements. The NHS and local government will be concerned about how this works and delivers on the ground, as Geraint, Gwenda and others have said. We must all monitor how the flexibilities work. That takes me on to David and Kirsty’s points about this being permissive and what we will do if the flexibilities do not deliver. Brian made an important point. There is the will and the resources to deliver on these flexibilities. There are some good examples already, without the regulation, of authorities, local government and the NHS working together. We have some visionary people, as Geraint knows, in his community, in Powys, in Blaenau Gwent and throughout Wales. There are active general practitioners, councillors and officials who are all determined to drive these matters forward. Nurses, physiotherapists and all the professions allied to medicine want to make these flexibilities work, particularly for primary care development. At this stage it is permissive. Let us see how joint working operates. Let us have these flexibilities through these regulations.
Nid ydym ond yn rhan o’r trefniadau. Bydd yr NHS a llywodraeth leol yn gofalu am sut y bydd hyn yn gweithio ac yn llwyddo ar lawr gwlad, fel y dywedodd Geraint, Gwenda a phobl eraill. Rhaid inni oll fonitro sut y mae’r dulliau hyblyg yn gweithio. Arwain hynny at bwyntiau David a Kirsty ynglŷn â’r ffaith ei bod yn ganiataol a beth a wnawn os na fydd y dulliau hyblyg yn llwyddo. Gwnaeth Brian bwynt pwysig. Mae’r ewyllys a’r adnoddau i lwyddo o ran y dulliau hyblyg hyn yn bodoli. Mae gennym rai enghreifftiau da eisoes, heb y rheoliad, o awdurdodau, llywodraeth leol a’r NHS yn gweithio gyda’i gilydd. Mae gennym bobl â gweledigaeth, fel y gŵyr Geraint, yn ei gymuned, ym Mhowys, ym Mlaenau Gwent a ledled Cymru. Mae gennym feddygon teulu, cynghorwyr a swyddogion gweithgar sydd yn benderfynol o wrtho’r materion hyn ymlaen. Mae nyrsys, ffiseotherapyddion a’r holl broffesiynau sydd yn gysylltiedig â meddygaeth am sicrhau bod y dulliau hyblyg hyn yn gweithio, yn enwedig er mwyn datblygu gofal sylfaenol. Gadewch inni weld sut y mae cydweithio yn gweithredu. Gadewch inni ddatblygu’r dulliau hyblyg hyn drwy’r rheoliadau hyn.
Peter described the good work in Blaenau Gwent. I was privileged to launch that alliance between the local authority and the local health community, in which the leader of the local authority co-chairs an alliance with the local GP who chairs the local health group. They have come together in a way that would never have happened in the past. They might have worked together at community level, but not at that strategic level to drive through the kind of changes that are needed in a community. These flexibilities do not only cover health and social care, but also housing and environmental health. They go beyond the health and social care interface to that other interface of issues that impact on health. Dai, I do not need to assure you that I will monitor this, that you can scrutinise me and that the Health and Social Services Committee will consider this carefully. You will do that when you judge the NHS Wales strategy that is in progress.
Disgrifiodd Peter y gwaith da ym Mlaenau Gwent. Yr oedd yn anrhydedd gennyf lansio’r cynghrair hwnnw rhwng yr awdurdod lleol a’r gymuned iechyd leol, lle y mae arweinydd yr awdurdod lleol yn cyd-gadeirio cynghrair â meddyg lleol sydd yn cadeirio’r grŵp iechyd lleol. Maent wedi dod ynghyd mewn modd na fyddai wedi digwydd yn y gorffennol. Efallai y byddent wedi gweithio gyda’i gilydd ar lefel y gymuned, ond nid ar unrhyw lefel strategol i wthio’r fath newidiadau sydd eu hangen ar gymunedau ymlaen. Nid yw’r dulliau hyblyg hyn ond yn cwmpasu iechyd a gofal cymdeithasol, maent hefyd yn ymdrin â thai a iechyd amgylcheddol. Maent yn mynd y tu hwnt i ryngwyneb iechyd a gofal cymdeithasol i’r rhyngwyneb hwnnw o faterion sydd yn effeithio ar iechyd. Dai, nid oes angen imi eich sicrhau y byddaf yn monitro hyn, y gallwch archwilio fy ngwaith ac y bydd y Pwyllgor Iechyd a Gwasanaethau Cymdeithasol yn ystyried hyn yn ofalus. Byddwch yn gwneud hynny pan farnwch strategaeth NHS Cymru sydd yn datblygu.
We recently had an excellent debate in the Committee about the role of local health groups. I was struck by the general practitioner who said that this is about being evolutionary and not revolutionary in Wales. Professor Nigel Stott said that people in England who have pursued the primary care trust route are envious of what we are doing in Wales. We are not pursuing routes because we have local health groups that are inclusive and are breaking down barriers. It is the will to make those regulations and flexibilities work that will deliver, not the structures. We are going down the right route.
Cawsom ddadl ardderchog yn ddiweddar yn y Pwyllgor ynglŷn â rôl grwpiau iechyd lleol. Fe’m trawyd gan eiriau’r meddyg teulu a ddywedodd mai mater esblygol nid chwyldroadol yw hyn yng Nghymru. Dywedodd yr Athro Nigel Stott fod pobl yn Lloegr sydd wedi dilyn llwybr yr ymddiriedolaeth gofal sylfaenol yn genfigennus o’r hyn yr ydym yn ei wneud yng Nghymru. Nid ydym yn dilyn llwybrau am fod gennym grwpiau iechyd lleol sydd yn gynhwysfawr ac yn goresgyn rhwystrau. Yr ewyllys i sicrhau bod y rheoliadau a’r dulliau hyblyg hynny yn gweithio fydd yn dod â llwyddiant, yn hytrach na’r strwythurau. Yr ydym yn dilyn y llwybr cywir.
As Brian and Kirsty said, we now have the money. We have unprecedented increases in funding, not only in the health service but also in local government, to drive this forward. Not only is the extra money, the incentive that I talked about in the draft budget to oil the wheels of joint working, vital, but it is the bulk of the money that will make things work. All of you should ask your health authorities what are they doing with their extra money in terms of bracket response teams, rehabilitation services, dealing with fuel poverty and the kind of imaginative care and repair schemes in the Rhondda that repair elderly people’s homes so that they are not disadvantaged because of lack of repairs and poor older housing.
Fel y dywedodd Brian a Kirsty, mae’r arian gennym bellach. Bu cynnydd o ran arian na welsom erioed o’r blaen, nid yn unig yn y gwasanaeth iechyd ond hefyd mewn llywodraeth leol, er mwyn gwthio hyn ymlaen. Nid yr arian ychwanegol yn unig, y cymhelliad y cyfeiriais ato yn y gyllideb ddrafft a fydd yn hwyluso’r cydweithio, sydd yn hanfodol, ond y cyfanswm a fydd yn sicrhau bod pethau’n gweithio. Dylai pob un ohonoch ofyn i’ch awdurdodau iechyd beth y maent yn ei wneud gyda’u harian ychwanegol o ran timau ymateb cyflym, gwasanaethau adsefydlu, ymdrin â thlodi tanwydd a’r math o gynlluniau gofal a thrwsio creadigol yn y Rhondda sydd yn trwsio cartrefi hen bobl fel nad ydynt o dan anfantais oherwydd diffyg gwaith trwsio a thai hŷn gwael.
In Wales we are moving in an evolutionary, but radical, way that will deliver a better service and structure. It will deliver on the poverty that Peter described in his community. We must make these flexibilities work to target our resources. Tomorrow, in the Health and Social Services Committee, we will discuss the new proposal for a health and inequalities fund. That will be about how we can use the health and inequalities fund to add value to joint working and make that work across the health and social services and other local government boundaries.
Yng Nghymru, yr ydym yn symud mewn ffordd esblygol, ond radicalaidd, a fydd yn cyflwyno gwell gwasanaeth a strwythur. Bydd yn cynnig atebion o ran y tlodi a ddisgrifiwyd gan Peter yn ei gymuned. Rhaid inni sicrhau bod y dulliau hyblyg hyn yn gweithio i dargedu ein hadnoddau. Yfory, yn y Pwyllgor Iechyd a Gwasanaethau Cymdeithasol, byddwn yn trafod y cynnig newydd am gronfa iechyd ac anghydraddoldebau. Bydd hon yn ymwneud â sut y gallwn ddefnyddio’r gronfa iechyd ac anghydraddoldebau i ychwanegu gwerth i gydweithio a sicrhau ei fod yn gweithio ar draws ffiniau iechyd a gwasanaethau cymdeithasol a ffiniau eraill llywodraeth leol.
Geraint eloquently talked about his role in local government as well as an Assembly Member. It is important, and I am sure that you will be part of the increased flexibilities conference at the end of November when we will discuss how we will make issues, such as charging, work. These are difficult new boundaries that we must all encounter. We must consider how we can give the best guidance in joint working to make it work for local government and the NHS. It is not about enforcing systems but getting the best guidance on the funding and charging issues.
Siaradodd Geraint yn huawdl am ei rôl mewn llywodraeth leol yn ogystal â bod yn Aelod o’r Cynulliad. Mae’n bwysig, ac yr wyf yn siŵr y byddwch yn cymryd rhan yn y gynhadledd ar ddulliau mwy hyblyg ar ddiwedd Tachwedd pan drafodwn sut y byddwn yn sicrhau bod materion, megis codi tâl, yn gweithio. Mae’r rhain yn ffiniau anodd newydd y mae’n rhaid inni oll eu hwynebu. Rhaid inni ystyried sut y gallwn roi’r arweiniad gorau ar gydweithio i sicrhau ei fod yn gweithio ar ran llywodraeth leol a’r NHS. Nid mater o orfodi systemau ydyw ond cael yr arweiniad gorau ar y materion sydd yn ymwneud ag arian a thaliadau a godir.
Gwenda said that we are making great strides. It is important that we take it away from the strategic to what happens on the ground: to the elderly person who has not yet experienced the impact of all of this and is finding it difficult, where there are communication barriers, and where she or he is not getting the seamless care to which we aspire. We must get it right where patients are at the sharp end. We must ensure that we get it right in terms of our long-term strategy for the elderly and also make our assessment rigorous. Therefore, across Wales, it should not matter where you live, you should be able to get the kind of rigorous assessment that means that these joint flexibilities can work for the most vulnerable, particularly the elderly.
Dywedodd Gwenda ein bod yn gwneud cynnydd mawr. Mae’n bwysig ein bod yn symud o faterion strategol i’r hyn sydd yn digwydd yn ymarferol: i’r person oedrannus sydd heb brofi effaith hyn oll ac mae’n ei chael yn anodd, lle mae rhwystrau i gyfathrebu, a lle nad yw’n cael y gofal didor y dylem anelu ato. Rhaid inni sicrhau bod pethau’n iawn lle y mae’r cleifion yn dioddef yr anawsterau mwyaf. Rhaid inni sicrhau ein bod yn gywir o ran ein strategaeth tymor hir i’r henoed a hefyd sicrhau bod ein hasesiad yn drylwyr. Felly, ledled Cymru, ni ddylai fod yn fater ble yr ydych yn byw, dylech fod yn gallu cael y math o asesiad trylwyr a olyga fod y dulliau hyblyg hyn ar y cyd yn gallu gweithio i’r rhai mwyaf diamddiffyn, yn enwedig yr henoed.
Gwelliant 1 David Lloyd t. 66
Amendment 1 David Lloyd p. 66
GwrthodwydRejected O blaidFor 14 YmatalAbstain 0 Yn erbynAgainst 34
Gwrthodwyd y gwelliant.
Amendment rejected.
Sut y pleidleisiodd yr AelodauHow Members voted
O blaidFor (14)
- Cynog Dafis
- Geraint Davies
- Janet Davies
- Jocelyn Davies
- Brian Hancock
- Pauline Jarman
- Elin Jones
- Gareth Jones
- Helen Mary Jones
- Ieuan Wyn Jones
- David Lloyd
- Owen John Thomas
- Rhodri Glyn Thomas
- Phil Williams
Yn erbynAgainst (34)
- Lorraine Barrett
- Mick Bates
- Peter Black
- Rosemary Butler
- Alun Cairns
- Christine Chapman
- Andrew Davies
- David Davies
- Glyn Davies
- Ron Davies
- Richard Edwards
- Delyth Evans
- Michael German
- Brian Gibbons
- William Graham
- Janice Gregory
- John Griffiths
- Christine Gwyther
- Alison Halford
- Edwina Hart
- Christine Humphreys
- Jane Hutt
- Carwyn Jones
- Peter Law
- Huw Lewis
- David Melding
- Rhodri Morgan
- Lynne Neagle
- Alun Pugh
- Jenny Randerson
- Rod Richards
- Peter Rogers
- Gwenda Thomas
- Kirsty Williams
DerbyniwydAdopted O blaidFor 48 YmatalAbstain 0 Yn erbynAgainst 0
Derbyniwyd y cynnig.
Motion adopted.
Sut y pleidleisiodd yr AelodauHow Members voted
O blaidFor (48)
- Lorraine Barrett
- Mick Bates
- Peter Black
- Rosemary Butler
- Alun Cairns
- Christine Chapman
- Cynog Dafis
- Andrew Davies
- David Davies
- Geraint Davies
- Glyn Davies
- Janet Davies
- Jocelyn Davies
- Ron Davies
- Richard Edwards
- Delyth Evans
- Michael German
- Brian Gibbons
- William Graham
- Janice Gregory
- John Griffiths
- Christine Gwyther
- Alison Halford
- Brian Hancock
- Edwina Hart
- Christine Humphreys
- Jane Hutt
- Pauline Jarman
- Carwyn Jones
- Elin Jones
- Gareth Jones
- Helen Mary Jones
- Ieuan Wyn Jones
- Peter Law
- Huw Lewis
- David Lloyd
- David Melding
- Rhodri Morgan
- Lynne Neagle
- Alun Pugh
- Jenny Randerson
- Rod Richards
- Peter Rogers
- Gwenda Thomas
- Owen John Thomas
- Rhodri Glyn Thomas
- Kirsty Williams
- Phil Williams
Cymeradwyo Rheoliadau Trefniadau Partneriaeth Cyrff Gwasanaeth Iechyd Gwladol ac Awdurdodau Lleol (Cymru) 2000
Approval of the National Health Service Bodies and Local Authorities Partnership Arrangements (Wales) Regulations 2000
Dafydd Elis-Thomas Y Llywydd siaradwyd yn Gymraeg t. 68
Dafydd Elis-Thomas The Presiding Officer spoken in Welsh p. 68
Cymeraf, gan ein bod wedi trafod y rheoliadau yn gyffredinol, nad oes neb yn bwriadu siarad amdanynt yn awr, ond mae’n briodol imi ddweud fod gennych hawl i wneud hynny.
I assume, given that we have debated the regulations generally, that no-one intends to speak about them now, but it is appropriate for me to tell you that you have the right to do so.
Jane Hutt The Minister for Health and Social Services spoken in English p. 68
Jane Hutt Y Gweinidog dros Iechyd a Gwasanaethau Cymdeithasol siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 68
I propose that
Cynigiaf fod
Jane Hutt The Minister for Health and Social Services (continued) spoken in English p. 68
Jane Hutt Y Gweinidog dros Iechyd a Gwasanaethau Cymdeithasol (parhad) siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 68
I also propose that
Cynigiaf hefyd fod
Dafydd Elis-Thomas Y Llywydd siaradwyd yn Gymraeg t. 69
Dafydd Elis-Thomas The Presiding Officer spoken in Welsh p. 69
Pleidleiswn yn awr ar egwyddor y Gorchymyn.
We will now vote on the principle of the Order.
DerbyniwydAdopted O blaidFor 48 YmatalAbstain 0 Yn erbynAgainst 0
Derbyniwyd y cynnig.
Motion adopted.
Sut y pleidleisiodd yr AelodauHow Members voted
O blaidFor (48)
- Lorraine Barrett
- Mick Bates
- Peter Black
- Rosemary Butler
- Alun Cairns
- Christine Chapman
- Cynog Dafis
- Andrew Davies
- David Davies
- Geraint Davies
- Glyn Davies
- Janet Davies
- Jocelyn Davies
- Ron Davies
- Richard Edwards
- Delyth Evans
- Michael German
- Brian Gibbons
- William Graham
- Janice Gregory
- John Griffiths
- Christine Gwyther
- Alison Halford
- Brian Hancock
- Edwina Hart
- Christine Humphreys
- Jane Hutt
- Pauline Jarman
- Carwyn Jones
- Elin Jones
- Gareth Jones
- Helen Mary Jones
- Ieuan Wyn Jones
- Peter Law
- Huw Lewis
- David Lloyd
- David Melding
- Rhodri Morgan
- Lynne Neagle
- Alun Pugh
- Jenny Randerson
- Rod Richards
- Peter Rogers
- Gwenda Thomas
- Owen John Thomas
- Rhodri Glyn Thomas
- Kirsty Williams
- Phil Williams
Dafydd Elis-Thomas Y Llywydd siaradwyd yn Gymraeg t. 70
Dafydd Elis-Thomas The Presiding Officer spoken in Welsh p. 70
Pleidleiswn yn awr ar gymeradwyo’r Gorchymyn.
We will now vote on the approval of the Order.
DerbyniwydAdopted O blaidFor 45 YmatalAbstain 0 Yn erbynAgainst 0
Derbyniwyd y cynnig.
Motion adopted.
Sut y pleidleisiodd yr AelodauHow Members voted
O blaidFor (45)
- Lorraine Barrett
- Mick Bates
- Peter Black
- Rosemary Butler
- Alun Cairns
- Christine Chapman
- Andrew Davies
- David Davies
- Glyn Davies
- Janet Davies
- Jocelyn Davies
- Ron Davies
- Richard Edwards
- Delyth Evans
- Michael German
- Brian Gibbons
- William Graham
- Janice Gregory
- John Griffiths
- Christine Gwyther
- Alison Halford
- Brian Hancock
- Edwina Hart
- Christine Humphreys
- Jane Hutt
- Pauline Jarman
- Carwyn Jones
- Gareth Jones
- Helen Mary Jones
- Ieuan Wyn Jones
- Peter Law
- Huw Lewis
- David Lloyd
- David Melding
- Rhodri Morgan
- Lynne Neagle
- Alun Pugh
- Jenny Randerson
- Rod Richards
- Peter Rogers
- Gwenda Thomas
- Owen John Thomas
- Rhodri Glyn Thomas
- Kirsty Williams
- Phil Williams
Pwynt o Drefn
Point of Order
Point of order.
Pwynt o drefn.
Dafydd Elis-Thomas The Presiding Officer spoken in English p. 71
Dafydd Elis-Thomas Y Llywydd siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 71
I hope that it is a good one.
Gobeithiaf ei fod yn un da.
My point of order relates to Standing Order No. 7.8 (iv) on Assembly Members who are guilty of discourteous or unbecoming conduct. I draw your attention to the statuette of the Greenham Common woman in the milling area—
Mae fy mhwynt o drefn yn ymwneud â Rheol Sefydlog Rhif 7.8 (iv) ynglŷn ag Aelodau o’r Cynulliad sydd yn ymddwyn yn anghwrtais neu’n amhriodol. Tynnaf eich sylw at y cerflun bach o fenyw Comin Greenham yn y neuadd—
Dafydd Elis-Thomas The Presiding Officer spoken in English p. 71
Dafydd Elis-Thomas Llywydd siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 71
Order. That is not a point of order. If you persist in speaking, I will invoke the disciplinary procedure to remove you from this Chamber.
Trefn. Nid yw hynny’n bwynt o drefn. Os mynnwch barhau i siarad, fe ddefnyddiaf y weithdrefn ddisgyblu i’ch anfon o’r Siambr hon.
[David Davies left the Chamber.]
[Gadawodd David Davies y Siambr.]
Cymeradwyo Gorchymyn Deddf Iechyd 1999 (Cychwyn Rhif 3) (Cymru) 2000
Approval of the Health Act 1999 (Commencement No. 3) (Wales) Order 2000
Jane Hutt The Minister for Health and Social Services spoken in English p. 71
Jane Hutt Y Gweinidog dros Iechyd a Gwasanaethau Cymdeithasol siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 71
I propose that
Cynigiaf fod
Jane Hutt The Minister for Health and Social Services (continued) spoken in English p. 71
Jane Hutt Y Gweinidog dros Iechyd a Gwasanaethau Cymdeithasol (parhad) siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 71
I also propose that
Cynigiaf hefyd fod
Dafydd Elis-Thomas Y Llywydd siaradwyd yn Gymraeg t. 71
Dafydd Elis-Thomas The Presiding Officer spoken in Welsh p. 71
Pleidleisiwn yn awr ar egwyddor y Gorchymyn.
We will now vote on the principle of the Order.
DerbyniwydAdopted O blaidFor 43 YmatalAbstain 0 Yn erbynAgainst 0
Derbyniwyd y cynnig.
Motion adopted.
Sut y pleidleisiodd yr AelodauHow Members voted
O blaidFor (43)
- Lorraine Barrett
- Mick Bates
- Peter Black
- Rosemary Butler
- Alun Cairns
- Cynog Dafis
- Andrew Davies
- Glyn Davies
- Janet Davies
- Jocelyn Davies
- Ron Davies
- Richard Edwards
- Michael German
- Brian Gibbons
- William Graham
- Janice Gregory
- John Griffiths
- Christine Gwyther
- Alison Halford
- Brian Hancock
- Edwina Hart
- Christine Humphreys
- Jane Hutt
- Pauline Jarman
- Carwyn Jones
- Elin Jones
- Gareth Jones
- Helen Mary Jones
- Ieuan Wyn Jones
- Peter Law
- Huw Lewis
- David Lloyd
- Rhodri Morgan
- Lynne Neagle
- Alun Pugh
- Jenny Randerson
- Rod Richards
- Peter Rogers
- Gwenda Thomas
- Owen John Thomas
- Rhodri Glyn Thomas
- Kirsty Williams
- Phil Williams
Dafydd Elis-Thomas Y Llywydd siaradwyd yn Gymraeg t. 72
Dafydd Elis-Thomas The Presiding Officer spoken in Welsh p. 72
Pleidleisiwn yn awr ar gymeradwyo’r Gorchymyn.
We will now vote on the approval of the Order.
DerbyniwydAdopted O blaidFor 46 YmatalAbstain 0 Yn erbynAgainst 0
Derbyniwyd y cynnig.
Motion adopted.
Sut y pleidleisiodd yr AelodauHow Members voted
O blaidFor (46)
- Lorraine Barrett
- Mick Bates
- Peter Black
- Rosemary Butler
- Alun Cairns
- Christine Chapman
- Cynog Dafis
- Andrew Davies
- Glyn Davies
- Janet Davies
- Jocelyn Davies
- Ron Davies
- Richard Edwards
- Delyth Evans
- Michael German
- Brian Gibbons
- William Graham
- Janice Gregory
- John Griffiths
- Christine Gwyther
- Alison Halford
- Brian Hancock
- Edwina Hart
- Christine Humphreys
- Jane Hutt
- Pauline Jarman
- Carwyn Jones
- Elin Jones
- Gareth Jones
- Helen Mary Jones
- Ieuan Wyn Jones
- Peter Law
- Huw Lewis
- David Lloyd
- David Melding
- Rhodri Morgan
- Lynne Neagle
- Alun Pugh
- Jenny Randerson
- Rod Richards
- Peter Rogers
- Gwenda Thomas
- Owen John Thomas
- Rhodri Glyn Thomas
- Kirsty Williams
- Phil Williams
Pwynt o Drefn
Point of Order
Point of order.
Pwynt o drefn.
Dafydd Elis-Thomas The Presiding Officer spoken in English p. 73
Dafydd Elis-Thomas Y Llywydd siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 73
Order. Is it relevant to the health debate?
Trefn. A yw’n berthnasol i’r ddadl ar iechyd?
My point of order relates to the exhibition that we have just witnessed from David Davies.
Mae fy mhwynt o drefn yn ymwneud â’r sioe yr ydym newydd ei gweld gan David Davies.
Dafydd Elis-Thomas The Presiding Officer spoken in English p. 74
Dafydd Elis-Thomas Y Llywydd siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 74
Order. That matter has been dealt with. No further points of order will arise from it.
Trefn. Ymdriniwyd â’r mater hwnnw. Ni fydd pwyntiau pellach o drefn yn deillio ohono.
Not even under the Standing Order that relates to throwing the teddy out of the pram?
Nid hyd yn oed o dan y Rheol Sefydlog sydd yn ymwneud â thaflu’r tedi allan o’r pram?
Adroddiad Blynyddol Ombwdsmon y Gwasanaeth Iechyd (Cymru)
The Annual Report of the Health Service Ombudsman (Wales)
Jane Hutt The Minister for Health and Social Services spoken in English p. 74
Jane Hutt Y Gweinidog dros Iechyd a Gwasanaethau Cymdeithasol siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 74
I propose that
Cynigiaf fod
Jane Hutt The Minister for Health and Social Services (continued) spoken in English p. 74
Jane Hutt Y Gweinidog dros Iechyd a Gwasanaethau Cymdeithasol (parhad) siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 74
This report, made under the Health Service Commissioners Act 1993, as amended by the Government of Wales Act 1998, outlines the work of the Health Service Ombudsman in Wales. This is an important debate because it is the first time that an annual report on the work of the Health Service Ombudsman in Wales has been published. In previous years it was included as part of a combined annual report, which covered England, Scotland and Wales. Following the establishment of the National Assembly, on 1 July 1999 the transfer of powers require that the Ombudsman lays this report before the National Assembly.
Mae’r adroddiad hwn, a wnaethpwyd o dan Ddeddf Comisiynwyr Gwasanaeth Iechyd 1993, fel y’i diwygiwyd gan Ddeddf Llywodraeth Cymru 1998, yn nodi gwaith Ombwdsmon y Gwasanaeth Iechyd yng Nghymru. Mae hon yn ddadl bwysig am mai hwn yw’r adroddiad blynyddol cyntaf a gyhoeddwyd ar waith Ombwdsmon y Gwasanaeth Iechyd yng Nghymru. Yn y gorffennol fe’i cynhwyswyd fel rhan o adroddiad blynyddol cyfun, yn cwmpasu Lloegr, yr Alban a Chymru. Yn sgîl sefydlu’r Cynulliad Cenedlaethol, ar 1 Gorffennaf 1999 mae trosglwyddo’r pwerau yn ei gwneud yn ofynnol i’r Ombwdsman gyflwyno’r adroddiad hwn gerbron y Cynulliad Cenedlaethol.
Following an internal review, the Ombudsman decided that, in line with the spirit of devolution, he would produce three separate reports in future, one of which would concentrate exclusively on the situation in Wales. This is the first of these reports.
Yn dilyn adolygiad mewnol, penderfynodd yr Ombwdsmon y byddai, yn unol ag ysbryd datganoli, yn cynhyrchu tri adroddiad ar wahân yn y dyfodol, gydag un ohonynt yn canolbwyntio ar y sefyllfa yng Nghymru yn unig. Dyma’r cyntaf o’r adroddiadau hyn.
This report’s purpose is to keep National Assembly Members and others informed of his work, to encourage NHS organisations to use the case report as teaching material for staff, to demonstrate that the Ombudsman is completely impartial and objective, and to encourage partnership between the NHS and professional and patient representatives to improve the service’s responsiveness.
Diben yr adroddiad hwn yw rhoi gwybod i Aelodau’r Cynulliad Cenedlaethol ac eraill am ei waith, annog sefydliadau NHS i ddefnyddio’r adroddiad achos fel deunydd addysgu i’r staff, profi bod yr Ombwdsmon yn gwbl ddiduedd a gwrthrychol, ac annog partneriaeth rhwng yr NHS a chynrychiolwyr pobl broffesiynol a chleifion i wella ymateb y gwasanaeth.
The report concentrates on the role and structure of the Ombudsman’s office in Wales, complaints received by his office about the care and treatment provided by the NHS in Wales, and the outcomes of those complaints. The Ombudsman has also taken the opportunity to highlight areas of concern that he has about the management and operation of the NHS complaints procedures in Wales. The report highlights two areas in particular that have given the Ombudsman cause for concern.
Mae’r adroddiad yn canolbwyntio ar rôl a strwythur swyddfa’r Ombwdsmon yng Nghymru, y cwynion a dderbyniwyd gan ei swyddfa ynglŷn â’r gofal a’r driniaeth a ddarparwyd gan yr NHS yng Nghymru, a chanlyniadau’r cwynion hynny. Mae’r Ombwdsmon hefyd wedi manteisio ar y cyfle i nodi’r hyn sydd yn achos pryder iddo ynglŷn â rheoli a gweithredu gweithdrefnau cwyno’r NHS yng Nghymru. Mae’r adroddiad yn nodi dau faes yn benodol sydd wedi achosi pryder i’r Ombwdsmon.
The first of these is the number of complaints that he still receives from people who have been removed unfairly or without explanation from the lists of family practitioners. Secondly—a much bigger area across all health service areas—problems of communication between staff and patients.
Y maes cyntaf yw nifer y cwynion a gaiff o hyd gan bobl y tynnwyd eu henwau yn annheg neu heb esboniad oddi ar restrau meddygon teulu. Yr ail—sef maes llawer mwy ar draws pob rhan o’r gwasanaeth iechyd—yw problemau cyfathrebu rhwng staff a chleifion.
As regards the first issue, while GPs have always had the right to remove patients from their lists without giving reasons, as patients have had the right to withdraw from doctors’ lists without having to give a reason, a good relationship between doctor and patient must be based on mutual trust and respect. The General Medical Council has advised doctors that they should be prepared to justify their decisions to remove a patient from their list, and that they should usually give their reasons. The GMC as a regulatory authority for the profession has a range of sanctions it can take against a doctor who acts in a manner that it considers unacceptable.
O safbwynt y mater cyntaf, er bod hawl gan feddygon teulu erioed i dynnu enwau cleifion oddi ar restrau heb roi rhesymau, fel y bu hawl gan gleifion i dynnu eu henwau oddi ar restrau meddygon heb roi rheswm, rhaid bod perthynas dda rhwng y meddyg a’r claf yn seiliedig ar ymddiriedolaeth a pharch gan y naill a’r llall. Cynghorwyd meddygon gan y Cyngor Meddygol Cyffredinol y dylent fod yn barod i gyfiawnhau eu penderfyniadau i dynnu enw claf oddi ar eu rhestr, ac y dylent fel arfer roi eu rhesymau. Mae gan y Cyngor Meddygol Cyffredinol fel awdurdod rheoleiddio ar gyfer y proffesiwn ystod o gosbau y gall eu rhoi i feddyg y mae ei ymddygiad yn annerbyniol yn nhyb y Cyngor.
The second issue is that important issue of communication between NHS staff and patients. Patients often feel vulnerable and isolated when they are in hospital or visiting their GP’s surgery. They may be confused or worried at what they are told. Staff involved in the delivery of NHS services need to ensure that they treat every patient as an individual, listen to what they have to say, and provide proper explanations to patients in words which they will understand. The NHS recognises this by giving a high priority to educating, training and developing staff in handling difficult and sensitive issues.
Yr ail yw’r mater pwysig hwnnw o gyfathrebu rhwng staff yr NHS a chleifion. Yn aml teimla cleifion yn ddiamddiffyn ac ynysig pan fyddant yn yr ysbyty neu’n mynd at eu meddyg teulu. Efallai eu bod wedi drysu neu’n bryderus ynglŷn â’r hyn a ddywedir wrthynt. Mae angen i’r staff sydd yn ymwneud â chyflwyno gwasanaethau NHS sicrhau eu bod yn trin pob claf fel unigolyn, gwrando ar yr hyn a ddywedant, a rhoi eglurhad priodol i gleifion mewn geiriau a ddeallant. Mae’r NHS yn cydnabod hyn drwy roi blaenoriaeth uchel i addysgu, hyfforddi a datblygu staff i drafod materion anodd a sensitif.
The Ombudsman also touches on the UK-wide review of the NHS complaints procedure, which is currently underway. The review will provide an independent evaluation of how the complaints procedure is operating across all parts of the NHS. As far as possible, it will be based on the actual experiences of complainants and NHS staff. The primary aim of the evaluation is to assess the extent to which the current procedure is meeting its objectives, and to make suggestions for improvement. The conclusions will be based on information from questionnaires, interviews, documents and meetings with those operating and using the procedures: patients, their carers, patient organisations, community health councils, operators such as NHS staff, GPs and other family health service practitioners, independent review panel members, and staff or practitioners complained against. The final report will be produced at the end of January 2001.
Cyfeiria’r Ombwdsmon hefyd at yr adolygiad o weithdrefn gwyno’r NHS ledled y DU, sydd ar waith ar hyn o bryd. Bydd yr adolygiad yn rhoi gwerthusiad annibynnol ar sut y mae’r weithdrefn gwyno yn gweithredu ym mhob rhan o’r NHS. Cyn belled â phosibl, bydd yn seiliedig ar brofiadau gwirioneddol achwynwyr a staff yr NHS. Prif nod y gwerthusiad yw asesu i ba raddau y cyflawna’r weithdrefn gyfredol ei hamcanion, a chyflwyno awgrymiadau i’w gwella. Bydd y casgliadau yn seiliedig ar wybodaeth gan holiaduron, cyfweliadau, dogfennau a chyfarfodydd gyda’r rhai sydd yn gweithredu a defnyddio’r gweithdrefnau: cleifion, eu cynhalwyr, sefydliadau cleifion, cynghorau iechyd cymunedol, gweithredwyr megis staff yr NHS, meddygon teulu ac ymarferwyr eraill gwasanaethau iechyd teuluol, aelodau paneli adolygu annibynnol, a staff neu ymarferwyr y gwnaethpwyd cwyn yn eu herbyn. Cyhoeddir yr adroddiad terfynol ar ddiwedd Ionawr 2001.
The Assembly’s NHS Directorate receives copies of the conclusions of all the independent review panel meetings and of the Ombudsman’s reports. They follow up the recommendations with the health authority or trust concerned until we are satisfied that they have been thoroughly addressed.
Caiff Cyfarwyddiaeth NHS y Cynulliad gopïau o gasgliadau pob un o gyfarfodydd y panel adolygu annibynnol ac adroddiadau’r Ombwdsmon. Maent yn mynd ar drywydd yr argymhellion gyda’r awdurdod neu ymddiriedolaeth iechyd dan sylw nes ein bod yn fodlon eu bod wedi mynd i’r afael â hwy yn drylwyr.
I turn to the amendment tabled by Janet Davies. To deal with the spirit of the amendment: the Assembly has no jurisdiction over the Ombudsman. Any review would have to be commissioned by the Secretary of State, as changes to the current arrangements would require primary legislation. However, the Cabinet fully supports the spirit of Janet’s amendment. The First Minister has written to the Secretary of State for Wales proposing that a review of Ombudsman services in Wales be undertaken. The aim of such a review should be the creation of a system that meets the needs of the new century and reflects the changing face of the delivery of public services in Wales. The Assembly, and Janet in particular, will be kept informed of any developments. Given the constitutional issue and the action that the First Minister has taken, I ask Janet to consider withdrawing her amendment.
Trof at y gwelliant a gyflwynwyd gan Janet Davies. O ran ysbryd y gwelliant: nid oes gan y Cynulliad unrhyw awdurdod dros yr Ombwdsmon. Byddai’n rhaid i unrhyw adolygiad gael ei gomisiynu gan yr Ysgrifennydd Gwladol, gan y byddai deddfwriaeth sylfaenol yn angenrheidiol i newid y trefniadau cyfredol. Fodd bynnag, mae’r Cabinet yn cefnogi’n llwyr ysbryd gwelliant Janet. Ysgrifennodd Prif Weinidog Cymru at Ysgrifennydd Gwladol Cymru gan gynnig y dylid cynnal adolygiad o wasanaethau’r Ombwdsmon yng Nghymru. Dylai adolygiad o’r fath anelu at greu system sydd yn bodloni anghenion y ganrif newydd gan adlewyrchu’r sefyllfa gyfnewidiol o ran cyflwyno gwasanaethau cyhoeddus yng Nghymru. Caiff y Cynulliad, a Janet yn enwedig, eu hysbysu o unrhyw ddatblygiadau. O ystyried y mater cyfansoddiadol a’r camau a gymerodd y Prif Weinidog, gofynnaf i Janet ystyried tynnu ei gwelliant yn ôl.
Finally, I emphasise a point made in the Ombudsman’s report. NHS staff are hard working and committed to helping patients who are often in considerable discomfort and need medical and emotional support. I know that many patients have visited Members’ surgeries when they are at the sharp end, asking what they should do next and where they should go for help and redress. In the vast majority of cases, the NHS gets it right. We must not lose sight of that in debating this report. However, we must ensure that, when patients are unhappy with the services that they have received from the NHS, their complaints are dealt with honestly, openly and with sensitivity.
I gloi, pwysleisiaf bwynt a wnaethpwyd yn adroddiad yr Ombwdsmon. Mae staff yr NHS yn weithgar ac yn ymrwymedig i helpu cleifion sydd yn aml mewn cryn dipyn o boen ac sydd angen cymorth meddygol ac emosiynol arnynt. Gwn fod llawer o gleifion wedi ymweld â chyngorfeydd Aelodau pan fydd wedi mynd yn ben arnynt, gan ofyn beth y dylent wneud yn nesaf ac i ble y dylent fynd am gymorth ac unioni cam. Yn y mwyafrif llethol o achosion, mae’r NHS yn gweithredu’n gywir. Rhaid inni beidio anghofio hynny wrth drafod yr adroddiad hwn. Fodd bynnag, rhaid inni sicrhau yr ymdrinnir â chwynion cleifion yn onest, yn agored ac mewn modd sensitif pan fyddant yn anfodlon ar y gwasanaethau a gawsant gan yr NHS.
The report provides us with an overview of the Office of the Health Service Ombudsman’s work during 1999-2000. The complaints highlighted in the report have been resolved and remedial action has been taken where appropriate. I am grateful for the Ombudsman office’s work and the help that it gives to ensure that complaints are resolved.
Mae’r adroddiad yn rhoi trosolwg inni o waith Swyddfa Ombwdsmon y Gwasanaeth Iechyd yn ystod 1999-2000. Datryswyd y cwynion a nodwyd yn yr adroddiad a chymerwyd camau unioni lle bo’n briodol. Yr wyf yn ddiolchgar am waith swyddfa’r Ombwdsmon a’r cymorth y mae’n ei roi i sicrhau bod cwynion yn cael eu datrys.
I propose amendment 1. Add as a new clause at the end of the motion:
Cynigiaf welliant 1. Ychwaneger cymal newydd at ddiwedd y cynnig:
I refer first to my earlier point of order. I now understand that I can propose this amendment. However, it was the Office of the Counsel General which rejected it this morning, not the Table Office. I cannot comment further on that.
Cyfeiriaf yn gyntaf at fy mhwynt cynharach o drefn. Deallaf yn awr y gallaf gynnig y gwelliant hwn. Fodd bynnag, gan Swyddfa’r Cwnsler Cyffredinol y’i gwrthodwyd y bore yma, nid y Swyddfa Gyflwyno. Ni allaf roi sylwadau pellach ar hynny.
I welcome the report and I agree with Jane’s comments on it. It is important that the Ombudsman can point out the weakness of his brief and the need for change. The report notes that he is trying to improve how his office reacts to complaints by developing new working practices, reducing delays, widening possible outcomes and improving explanations. He also suggests the merger of the three Ombudsman offices in Wales: the local government, administration and health ombudsmen. Michael Buckley already works as the Welsh Administration Ombudsman, which would make it easier to merge that role with that of the Health Service Ombudsman.
Croesawaf yr adroddiad a chytunaf â sylwadau Janet arno. Mae’n bwysig bod yr Ombwdsmon yn gallu nodi gwendid ei gylch gorchwyl a’r angen am newid. Noda’r adroddiad ei fod yn ceisio gwella sut y mae ei swyddfa yn ymateb i gwynion drwy ddatblygu arferion gwaith newydd, lleihau oedi, ehangu canlyniadau posibl a gwella esboniadau. Awgryma hefyd y dylid uno swyddfeydd y tri Ombwdsmon yng Nghymru: sef ombwdsmyn llywodraeth leol, gweinyddiaeth ac iechyd. Mae Michael Buckley eisoes yn gweithio fel Ombwdsmon Gweinyddiaeth Cymru, a fyddai’n ei gwneud yn haws i uno’r rôl honno â rôl Ombwdsmon y Gwasanaeth Iechyd.
It is important that his role can be widened through legislation. Although we may only be able to ask for that to be done, we should, nevertheless, do so. The public faces increasingly complex government today and needs more help in approaching the Ombudsman and in knowing how to do so successfully. Case studies in the report show that these are important points. As I said a few weeks ago, the Ombudsman needs to be able to develop an advocacy role to some extent. I am glad that we are following that up. In the last debate on this, Andrew Davies said that the Government would consider holding a review on these points. I hope that that is still on line and I look forward to seeing its results.
Mae’n bwysig y gellir ehangu ei rôl drwy ddeddfwriaeth. Er mai dim ond gofyn am wneud hyn y gallwn ei wneud, dylem, serch hynny, wneud hyn. Mae’r cyhoedd yn wynebu llywodraeth fwyfwy cymhleth heddiw ac mae angen mwy o gymorth arno wrth gysylltu â’r Ombwdsmon a gwybod sut i wneud hynny’n llwyddiannus. Dengys yr astudiaethau achos yn yr adroddiad bod y rhain yn bwyntiau pwysig. Fel y dywedais ychydig wythnosau yn ôl, mae angen i’r Ombwdsmon allu datblygu rôl eirioli i raddau. Yr wyf yn falch ein bod yn gweithredu ar hynny. Yn y ddadl ddiwethaf ar hyn, dywedodd Andrew Davies y byddai’r Llywodraeth yn ystyried cynnal adolygiad ar y pwyntiau hyn. Gobeithiaf fod hynny yn dal ar y gweill ac edrychaf ymlaen at weld ei ganlyniadau.
I welcome this first Wales-specific report from the Ombudsman. I would like to explore one issue highlighted in it, namely the handling of complaints in the NHS and issues of communication. The uncertainty and lack of clarity surrounding the NHS complaints procedure is evident in the large number of cases that are brought to the Ombudsman’s attention but fall outside his remit to investigate. Of 146 cases that were brought to his attention, he could only investigate 24. That illustrates the confusion and frustration that people feel with the current system. They do not know where to go to get redress and to get their complaints and issues heard.
Croesawaf yr adroddiad cyntaf hwn gan yr Ombwdsmon ar Gymru yn benodol. Hoffwn drafod un o’r materion a nodwyd ynddo, sef trafod cwynion yn yr NHS a materion cyfathrebu. Mae’r ansicrwydd a’r diffyg eglurdeb ynglŷn â gweithdrefn gwyno’r NHS yn amlwg mewn nifer fawr o achosion a ddygwyd i sylw’r Ombwdsmon ond sydd y tu allan i’w gylch gwaith i ymchwilio. O blith y 146 o achosion a ddygwyd i’w sylw, ni allai ymchwilio ond i 24 ohonynt. Dengys hynny y dryswch a’r rhwystredigaeth y mae pobl yn eu teimlo ynghylch y system bresennol. Ni wyddant ble y dylent fynd i unioni cam a sicrhau y gwrandewir ar eu cwynion a’u materion.
Those who have a complaint against the NHS are faced with complex procedures, often at a time when they are vulnerable. I know from correspondence with many families throughout Wales how difficult they have found accessing the system and getting the answers that they feel they and their relatives deserve. I therefore welcome the review of the current complaints procedures, and am especially impressed that they will use the experience of those who have been through the system—through the mill—as a basis to improving the current complaints procedures. Many families and individuals in Wales will look forward to those reports and findings.
Mae’r rhai sydd yn gwneud cwyn am yr NHS yn wynebu gweithdrefnau cymhleth, yn aml ar adeg pan fyddant yn ddiamddiffyn. Gwn gan ohebiaeth llawer o deuluoedd ledled Cymru pa mor anodd ydoedd iddynt ddefnyddio’r system a chael yr atebion y credant hwy a’u perthnasau eu bod yn eu haeddu. Felly croesawaf yr adolygiad o’r gweithdrefnau cwyno presennol, a’r hyn a’m tarodd yn arbennig oedd y byddant yn defnyddio profiad y rhai sydd wedi bod drwy’r system—trwy’r felin—fel sail i wella’r gweithdrefnau cwyno presennol. Bydd llawer o deuluoedd ac unigolion yng Nghymru yn edrych ymlaen at yr adroddiadau a’r canfyddiadau hynny.
I am also glad to hear from the Minister for Health and Social Services that the First Minister intends to discuss opportunities of improving the efficiency and the role of the Ombudsman with the Secretary of State for Wales. That is the appropriate channel for those discussions. Janet raised an impressive point about advocacy. There is presently quite a large-scale review of patient participation and advocacy going on in the NHS in Wales. The Health and Social Services Committee is hoping to pick up on this in the spring when that group reports on a series of options on how we can increase public participation in the service and ensure that the advocacy services are in place for those who want to take complaints through their procedures. I hope that that will be a vast improvement and that these systems will do the Ombudsman out of a job. Perhaps those grass roots systems will provide the redress that people need without having to resort eventually to the last stop, namely the Ombudsman. I would like to move to a situation where we see an Ombudsman’s report that has little to say because he had a quiet time.
Yr wyf yn falch hefyd o glywed gan y Gweinidog dros Iechyd a Gwasanaethau Cymdeithasol fod y Prif Weinidog yn bwriadu trafod y cyfle i wella effeithlonrwydd a rôl yr Ombwdsmon gydag Ysgrifennydd Gwladol Cymru. Dyna’r sianel briodol ar gyfer y trafodaethau hynny. Cododd Janet bwynt hynod ynglŷn ag eirioli. Cynhelir adolygiad go fawr o gyfranogiad cleifion ac eirioli yn yr NHS yng Nghymru ar hyn o bryd. Mae’r Pwyllgor Iechyd a Gwasanaethau Cymdeithasol yn gobeithio trafod hyn yn y gwanwyn pan fydd y grŵp hwnnw yn cyflwyno adroddiad ar gyfres o opsiynau ynghylch sut y gallwn gynyddu cyfranogiad y cyhoedd yn y gwasanaeth a sicrhau bod gwasanaethau eirioli yn eu lle ar gyfer y rhai sydd am wneud cwyn drwy ei weithdrefnau. Gobeithiaf y bydd hynny’n gryn welliant ac y bydd y systemau hyn yn amddifadu’r Ombwdsmon o’i waith. Efallai y gallai’r systemau lleol hynny unioni’r cam i bobl heb iddynt orfod cymryd y cam olaf hwnnw, sef mynd at yr Ombwdsmon. Hoffwn weld sefyllfa lle y gwelwn adroddiad Ombwdsmon lle nad oes fawr i’w ddweud ganddo am iddo gael amser tawel.
I will not go over the remarks that have already been made in this debate about the most complained about items and the need to improve communications for good, effective clinical care, although those are important points.
Nid af ar drywydd y sylwadau a wnaethpwyd eisoes yn y ddadl hon ynghylch yr eitemau sydd yn achosi’r nifer fwyaf o gwynion a’r angen i wella cyfathrebu ar gyfer gofal clinigol da, effeithiol, er bod y pwyntiau hynny’n bwysig.
Many people complain and a matter will go to the Ombudsman right at the end of a complaints procedure. We are seeing much confusion among the public as to what is their recourse and best course of action if they have a concern. If that is not dealt with well at an early stage they may get frustrated and perhaps refer a complaint to a level that is not completely appropriate, whereas if the complaint is dealt with nearer to the incident’s taking place it would be better for all parties concerned. Given that, we are picking up an important policy consideration here in relation to complaints. There has been much discussion in England about how to improve patient advocacy and how it can be developed. The English NHS plan proposes patient advocates in all hospitals.
Mae llawer o bobl yn cwyno a bydd mater yn cyrraedd yr Ombwdsmon fel y cam olaf un o’r weithdrefn gwyno. Gwelwn gryn ddryswch ymhlith aelodau’r cyhoedd ynghylch ble y gallent droi am gymorth a’r ffordd orau o weithredu os oes pryder ganddynt. Os nad ymdrinnir â hynny yn gynnar gallent deimlo’n rhwystredig ac efallai gyfeirio cwyn at lefel nad yw’n gwbl briodol, er y byddai’n well i bawb o dan sylw ped ymdrinnid â chwyn yn nes at y fan lle y digwyddodd. O ystyried hynny yr ydym yn nodi ystyriaeth bwysig o ran y polisi mewn perthynas â chwynion. Bu cryn drafodaeth yn Lloegr ynghylch sut i wella eiriolaeth dros gleifion a sut y gellir ei datblygu. Mae cynllun NHS Lloegr yn awgrymu eiriolwyr dros gleifion ymhob ysbyty.
We will be conducting work in the Health and Social Services Committee on these sorts of issues: the involvement of the public and what recourse the public has. At some point, we will need to look specifically at complaints procedures. I am not saying that we will necessarily have to go down the road of patient advocates, but when we consider the role of community health councils there is a question about how people can be given good, practical information early on because that is the most constructive way to do it. People will then be reassured and will adopt a reasonable approach. I do not want to see many frustrated and bitter people at the end referring to the Ombudsman, and finding that the matters that they raise are not in the Ombudsman’s jurisdiction. Complaints are not necessarily bad. They can improve the service and can reassure the public. As the Ombudsman concludes, the vast majority of NHS health care is delivered effectively and with a high level of patient satisfaction. We should never forget that.
Byddwn yn gwneud gwaith yn y Pwyllgor Iechyd a Gwasanaethau Cymdeithasol ar y mathau hyn o faterion: cyfranogiad aelodau’r cyhoedd a ble y gallant droi am gymorth. Rywbryd neu’i gilydd, bydd angen inni ystyried y gweithdrefnau cwyno yn benodol. Ni honnaf y byddwn o reidrwydd yn argymell eiriolwyr dros gleifion, ond pan ystyriwn rôl y cynghorau iechyd cymunedol mae’r cwestiwn yn codi ynghylch sut y gall pobl gael gwybodaeth dda, ymarferol yn gynnar gan mai honno yw’r ffordd fwyaf adeiladol o wneud hynny. Yna caiff pobl eu sicrhau a byddant yn mabwysiadu ymagwedd resymol. Nid wyf am weld llu o bobl rwystredig a chwerw a fydd yn cyfeirio eu cwyn at yr Ombwdsmon yn y pendraw, a chanfod nad oes gan yr Ombwdsmon yr awdurdod i ymchwilio i’r materion a godant. Nid peth drwg yw cwynion o reidrwydd. Gallant wella’r gwasanaeth a sicrhau’r cyhoedd. Fel y casgla’r Ombwdsmon, caiff y rhan helaeth o ofal iechyd NHS ei gyflwyno’n effeithiol gyda lefel uchel o foddhad ymhlith y cleifion. Ni ddylem fyth anghofio hynny.
I have a few comments on the report, which I welcome. I am not a member of the Health and Social Services Committee, but my comments arise from constituents’ comments. Other Members may have had the same experience. The public wants an advocate and not an impartial judge, who could be the flaw in this system. The imbalance of power between large organisations and individuals is so great that it could be argued that it is impartial in itself. Despite its own integrity, it would be fairer to address the balance by this advocacy role.
Mae gennyf ychydig o sylwadau ar yr adroddiad, yr wyf yn ei groesawu. Nid wyf yn aelod o’r Pwyllgor Iechyd a Gwasanaethau Cymdeithasol, ond mae fy sylwadau yn deillio o sylwadau etholwyr. Efallai bod Aelodau eraill wedi cael yr un profiad. Mae’r cyhoedd am gael eiriolwr ac nid barnwr diduedd, a allai fod yn wendid yn y system hon. Mae’r diffyg cydbwysedd o ran pŵer rhwng y sefydliadau mawr ac unigolion yn un mor fawr fel y gellid dadlau ei fod yn ddiduedd ynddo’i hun. Er gwaethaf ei hintegredd ei hun, byddai’n decach ymdrin â’r cydbwysedd drwy’r rôl eirioli hon.
The complainant must also exhaust all other internal mechanisms. People often perceive these mechanisms as biased, long and complicated and designed to hide or camouflage the truth. Many, therefore, give up pursuing their complaint. In quality management in industry, complaints are seen as opportunities to correct situations, to understand the system and to communicate and explain the system. Complaints are feedback, so we must not lose sight of them. The judgment of a complaint will only relate to that case. However, in the interest of the public, that complaint is sometimes an opportunity to reform the whole system. A way must be found to address this.
Rhaid i’r achwynydd hefyd fynd ar drywydd pob mecanwaith mewnol eraill. Mae pobl yn aml o’r farn nad yw’r mecanweithiau hyn yn ddiduedd, a’u bod yn hir a chymhleth gyda’r nod o guddio’r gwirionedd. Mae llawer, felly, yn rhoi’r gorau i fynd â’u cwyn ymhellach. Ym maes rheoli ansawdd mewn diwydiant, ystyrir bod cwynion yn gyfle i unioni sefyllfa, i ddeall y system a chyfathrebu ac egluro’r system. Mae cwynion yn adborth, felly rhaid inni beidio â’u hanghofio. Bydd dyfarniad ar gŵyn ond yn berthnasol i’r achos hwnnw. Fodd bynnag, er budd y cyhoedd mae’r gŵyn honno weithiau yn gyfle i ddiwygio’r system gyfan. Rhaid canfod ffordd o fynd i’r afael â hyn.
My final point is on maladministration. It is a legal concept, dense and almost impenetrable to the lay person. A broader remit must be found that is more empowering in terms of opening up scrutiny of the democratic or administrative processes to the public. I welcome the report and I recommend that Janet Davies’s amendment be supported.
Mae fy mhwynt olaf yn ymwneud â chamweinyddu. Mae’n gysyniad cyfreithiol, astrus, annealladwy bron i’r person lleyg. Rhaid cael cylch gwaith ehangach sydd yn fwy ymrymusol o ran sicrhau bod archwilio’r prosesau democrataidd neu weinyddol yn agored i’r cyhoedd. Croesawaf yr adroddiad ac argymhellaf y dylid cefnogi gwelliant Janet Davies.
I am glad that we have considered this important report fully. Colleagues, Kirsty and Janet in particular, are interested in the review. I have assured Janet that the Cabinet has backed a request to the Secretary of State that that review be undertaken in Wales, building on the Ombudsman’s views. On that basis, the Assembly does not need to support the amendment. We all agree with its spirit but it now needs to be taken forward by the Secretary of State.
Mae’n dda gennyf inni ystyried yr adroddiad pwysig hwn yn llawn. Mae gan gyd-Aelodau, Kirsty a Janet yn enwedig, ddiddordeb yn yr adolygiad. Yr wyf wedi sicrhau Janet bod y Cabinet wedi cefnogi cais i’r Ysgrifennydd Gwladol i’r adolygiad hwnnw gael ei gynnal yng Nghymru, gan ategu barn yr Ombwdsmon. Ar y sail honno, nid oes angen i’r Cynulliad gefnogi’r gwelliant. Yr ydym oll yn cytuno â’i ysbryd ond bellach mae angen i’r Ysgrifennydd Gwladol weithredu ar hyn.
Janet, you also mentioned, as did Kirsty and David, the important policy considerations that arise out of the Ombudsman’s report, and learning its lessons after a long and torturous complaints procedure. I was the trust convenor of the trust on which I served as a non-executive director before I came to the Assembly and took a case against my trust to an independent review. Independence, and the role of trust convenors who are part of a trust and take forward their complaint in the complaints procedure needs to be reviewed. Although we have a UK review of complaints procedures that comes to fruition in January, perhaps the Health and Social Services Committee—I believe David mentioned this—could consider our own review of complaints procedures in Wales. That would be linked to the work that is presently being done, as Kirsty said, on patient involvement and patient advocacy, and would consider the future role of community health councils and how we can best have an independent voice for patients in Wales. This may also be of interest to the Audit Committee.
Janet, cyfeiriasoch hefyd, fel y gwnaeth Kirsty a David, at yr ystyriaethau pwysig o ran polisi sydd yn deillio o adroddiad yr Ombwdsmon, a dysgu’r gwersi ganddo ar ôl gweithdrefn gwyno faith a hirwyntog. Yr oeddwn yn gynullwr ymddiriedolaeth i’r ymddiriedolaeth lle y gwasanaethwn fel cyfarwyddwr anweithredol cyn imi ddod i’r Cynulliad gan fynd ag achos yn erbyn fy ymddiriedolaeth i adolygiad annibynnol. Mae angen adolygu annibyniaeth, a rôl cynullwyr ymddiriedolaethau sydd yn rhan o ymddiriedolaeth ac sydd yn mynd â’u cwynion ymlaen i’r weithdrefn gwyno. Er bod gennym adolygiad ledled y DU o weithdrefnau cwyno, sydd yn dod i ben yn Ionawr, efallai y gallai’r Pwyllgor Iechyd a Gwasanaethau Cymdeithasol—credaf i David sôn am hyn—ystyried cynnal ein hadolygiad ein hun o’r gweithdrefnau cwyno yng Nghymru. Byddai hynny wedi ei gysylltu â’r gwaith a wneir ar hyn o bryd, fel y dywedodd Kirsty, ar gyfranogiad cleifion ac eiriolaeth cleifion, ac y byddai’n ystyried rôl cynghorau iechyd cymunedol yn y dyfodol a’r ffordd orau o roi llais annibynnol i gleifion yng Nghymru. Efallai y bydd hyn o ddiddordeb i’r Pwyllgor Archwilio hefyd.
Brian, you rightly say that the barriers can appear enormous. You can feel powerless unless you have someone who listens and unless you feel that you know where to go. It is not a question of glossy leaflets. We must ensure that the barriers are removed and that the advocates are there. That is not always the case, particularly when there is a feeling of a loss of independence in terms of how you take your case forward. The Ombudsman’s report clearly shows that there are lessons to be learnt, particularly on communication between patients and the NHS, and on being sensitive to issues.
Brian, yr ydych yn gywir wrth ddweud y gall y rhwystrau ymddangos fel petaent yn enfawr. Gallwch deimlo’n ddi-rym oni bai fod gennych rywun sydd yn gwrando arnoch ac oni bai eich bod yn teimlo ichi wybod ble i droi. Nid mater o daflenni moethus ydyw. Rhaid inni sicrhau bod y rhwystrau yn cael eu symud a bod eiriolwyr yno. Nid yw hynny’n digwydd bob tro, yn enwedig pan fydd ymdeimlad o golli annibyniaeth ynglŷn â sut y gallwch fynd â’r achos ymlaen. Dengys adroddiad yr Ombwdsmon yn glir fod gwersi i’w dysgu, yn enwedig o safbwynt cyfathrebu rhwng cleifion a’r NHS, a bod yn sensitif i faterion.
All staff need support and training to understand how to handle complaints that may seem threatening to them. That is an issue where we cannot only have complaints procedures and ombudsmen. We must help our staff to embrace a new culture where they can see that it is possible to learn from an effective complaints procedure, and then show patients that we changed policy as a result of learning from these kinds of complaints. The Ombudsman’s report points to ways in which we can change policy and learn from his observations and from the action that he has undertaken. We could end up, given the points that Janet and others have made, with a much better system in Wales if we give it a radical overhaul.
Mae angen cymorth a hyfforddiant ar bob aelod o’r staff i ddeall sut y dylid trafod cwynion a all ymddangos yn fygythiol iddynt. Mae hwnnw yn fater lle na allwn fodloni ar weithdrefnau cwyno ac ombwdsmyn yn unig. Rhaid inni helpu ein staff i fabwysiadu diwylliant newydd lle y gallant weld bod modd dysgu o weithdrefn gwyno effeithiol, a dangos i’r cleifion ein bod wedi newid polisi o ganlyniad i ddysgu oddi wrth gwynion o’r fath. Mae adroddiad yr Ombwdsmon yn nodi’r ffyrdd y gallwn newid polisi a dysgu oddi wrth ei sylwadau a’r camau a gymerodd. Gallwn yn y pen draw, o ystyried y pwyntiau a wnaeth Janet ac eraill, gael system llawer gwell yng Nghymru os ydym yn ei harchwilio o ddifrif.
Gwelliant 1 Janet Davies t. 83
Amendment 1 Janet Davies p. 83
GwrthodwydRejected O blaidFor 12 YmatalAbstain 7 Yn erbynAgainst 22
Gwrthodwyd y gwelliant.
Amendment rejected.
Sut y pleidleisiodd yr AelodauHow Members voted
O blaidFor (12)
- Cynog Dafis
- Janet Davies
- Jocelyn Davies
- Brian Hancock
- Pauline Jarman
- Elin Jones
- Gareth Jones
- Helen Mary Jones
- Ieuan Wyn Jones
- David Lloyd
- Rhodri Glyn Thomas
- Phil Williams
YmatalAbstain (7)
- Nick Bourne
- Alun Cairns
- Glyn Davies
- William Graham
- David Melding
- Jonathan Morgan
- Peter Rogers
Yn erbynAgainst (22)
- Lorraine Barrett
- Mick Bates
- Peter Black
- Rosemary Butler
- Christine Chapman
- Andrew Davies
- Richard Edwards
- Delyth Evans
- Michael German
- Brian Gibbons
- Janice Gregory
- John Griffiths
- Christine Gwyther
- Alison Halford
- Edwina Hart
- Christine Humphreys
- Jane Hutt
- Carwyn Jones
- Peter Law
- Jenny Randerson
- Alun Pugh
- Kirsty Williams
DerbyniwydAdopted O blaidFor 42 YmatalAbstain 0 Yn erbynAgainst 0
Derbyniwyd y cynnig.
Motion adopted.
Sut y pleidleisiodd yr AelodauHow Members voted
O blaidFor (42)
- Lorraine Barrett
- Mick Bates
- Peter Black
- Nick Bourne
- Rosemary Butler
- Alun Cairns
- Christine Chapman
- Cynog Dafis
- Andrew Davies
- Glyn Davies
- Janet Davies
- Jocelyn Davies
- Richard Edwards
- Delyth Evans
- Michael German
- Brian Gibbons
- William Graham
- Janice Gregory
- John Griffiths
- Christine Gwyther
- Alison Halford
- Brian Hancock
- Edwina Hart
- Christine Humphreys
- Jane Hutt
- Pauline Jarman
- Carwyn Jones
- Elin Jones
- Gareth Jones
- Helen Mary Jones
- Ieuan Wyn Jones
- Peter Law
- David Lloyd
- David Melding
- Jonathan Morgan
- Alun Pugh
- Jenny Randerson
- Peter Rogers
- Owen John Thomas
- Rhodri Glyn Thomas
- Kirsty Williams
- Phil Williams
Daeth y cyfarfod i ben am 4.43 p.m.
The meeting ended at 4.43 p.m.