Cynulliad Cenedlaethol CymruNational Assembly for Wales · Cyfarfod llawnPlenary sitting
Dydd Iau 1 Chwefror 2001
Thursday 1 February 2001
CynnwysContents
- 3Cwestiynau ar Lywodraeth Leol i’r Gweinidog dros Gyllid, Llywodraeth Leol a ChymunedauQuestions on Local Government to the Minister for Finance, Local Government and Communities
- 3Dosbarthiad Grantiau Tai CymdeithasolThe Distribution of Social Housing Grants
- 4Comisiwn y DigartrefThe Homelessness Commission
- 5Gwella Atebolrwydd Llywodraeth LeolImproving the Accountability of Local Government
- 6Diddymu Tlodi PlantEradicating Child Poverty
- 7Adeiladu Tai Awdurdodau Lleol yn RhaeadrBuilding Local Authority Houses in Rhayader
- 8Mynd i’r Afael â ThlodiTackling Poverty
- 10Cyllid Llywodraeth LeolLocal Government Finance
- 11Lwfansau Cynghorwyr yng NghymruCouncillors’ Allowances in Wales
- 11Cwestiynau i’r Gweinidog dros yr AmgylcheddQuestions to the Minister for Environment
- 11Polisi Cynllunio yng NghymruPlanning Policy in Wales
- 13Datblygu Fframwaith Cynllunio GofodolDeveloping a Spatial Planning Framework
- 15Hybu Ynni AdnewyddadwyPromoting Renewable Energy
- 16Tagfeydd Traffig yn Ne CymruTraffic Congestion in South Wales
- 18Uwchraddio Rheilffordd Gogledd CymruUpgrading the North Wales Rail Line
- 20Datganiad gan y LlywyddStatement by the Presiding Officer
- 20Pwyntiau o DrefnPoints of Order
- 21Cynigion TrefniadolProcedural Motions 3 o bleidleisiau3 votes
- 28Pwynt o DrefnPoint of Order
- 28Dadl FrysUrgent Debate
- 28Corus
- 91Cynnig TrefniadolProcedural Motion 1 bleidlais1 vote
- 92Cwestiwn BrysUrgent Question
- 97Datganiad ar ‘Wella Iechyd yng Nghymru’Statement on ‘Improving Health in Wales’
PleidleisiauVotes
| PleidlaisVote | O blaidFor | YmatalAbstain | Yn erbynAgainst | CanlyniadResult |
|---|---|---|---|---|
| Cynigion TrefniadolProcedural Motions | ||||
| Cynnig trefniadolProcedural motion | 45 | 0 | 0 | DerbyniwydAdopted |
| Cynnig trefniadolProcedural motion | 45 | 0 | 0 | DerbyniwydAdopted |
| Cynnig trefniadolProcedural motion | 45 | 0 | 0 | DerbyniwydAdopted |
| Cynnig TrefniadolProcedural Motion | ||||
| Cynnig trefniadolProcedural motion | 43 | 0 | 0 | DerbyniwydAdopted |
TrafodionProceedings
Cyfarfu’r Cynulliad am 9:05 a.m. gyda’r Llywydd yn y Gadair.
The Assembly met at 9:05 a.m. with the Presiding Officer in the Chair.
Cwestiynau ar Lywodraeth Leol i’r Gweinidog dros Gyllid, Llywodraeth Leol a Chymunedau
Questions on Local Government to the Minister for Finance, Local Government and Communities
Dosbarthiad Grantiau Tai Cymdeithasol
The Distribution of Social Housing Grants
What steps are being taken to ensure that the distribution of social housing grants reflects need rather than historical spending? (OAQ9241)
Pa gamau sydd yn cael eu cymryd i sicrhau bod dosbarthiad grantiau tai cymdeithasol yn adlewyrchu angen yn hytrach na gwariant hanesyddol? (OAQ9241)
I declare an interest in this matter.
Datganaf fuddiant yn y mater hwn.
Edwina Hart The Minister for Finance, Local Government and Communities spoken in English p. 3
Edwina Hart Y Gweinidog dros Gyllid, Llywodraeth Leol a Chymunedau siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 3
As part of my review of arrangements for distributing social housing grants, I have asked my officials to consult with the Welsh Local Government Association and the Welsh Federation of Housing Associations with the aim of developing the formula used to distribute social housing grants so that it better reflects housing needs.
Fel rhan o’m hadolygiad o’r trefniadau ar gyfer dosbarthu grantiau tai cymdeithasol, yr wyf wedi gofyn i’m swyddogion ymgynghori â Chymdeithas Llywodraeth Leol Cymru a Ffederasiwn Sefydliadau Tai Cymru gyda’r nod o ddatblygu’r fformwla a ddefnyddir i ddosbarthu grantiau tai cymdeithasol er mwyn iddo adlewyrchu anghenion tai yn well.
I am pleased that there is an acknowledgement that the present arrangements are unsatisfactory. Will you examine the current formula applied to capital allocations to local authorities’ housing stock, which has resulted in deprived areas of greatest need receiving far less than more affluent areas during the last three years? For example, the percentage increase in Cardiff was 160 per cent compared to 31 per cent in Neath Port Talbot and 38 per cent in Rhondda Cynon Taff.
Yr wyf yn falch bod yna gydnabyddiaeth fod y trefniadau presennol yn anfoddhaol. A archwiliwch y fformwla bresennol a ddefnyddir i ddyrannu cyfalaf i stoc tai awdurdodau lleol, sydd wedi peri bod yr ardaloedd difreintiedig mwyaf anghenus wedi derbyn llawer yn llai na’r ardaloedd mwy llewyrchus yn ystod y tair blynedd diwethaf? Er enghraifft, yr oedd y cynnydd yng Nghaerdydd yn 160 y cant o’i gymharu â 31 y cant yng Nghastell-nedd Port Talbot a 38 y cant yn Rhondda Cynon Taf.
I understand your concerns regarding those figures. When I consider all the issues regarding housing in the future, I will ensure that the National Assembly prioritises deprived areas and deals with the housing stock in those areas.
Deallaf eich pryderon ynghylch y ffigurau hynny. Pan ystyriaf yr holl faterion o ran tai yn y dyfodol, sicrhaf y bydd y Cynulliad Cenedlaethol yn blaenoriaethu’r ardaloedd difreintiedig ac yn delio â’r stoc tai yn yr ardaloedd hynny.
Comisiwn y Digartref
The Homelessness Commission
Q2 Ieuan Wyn Jones The Leader of the Opposition spoken in English p. 4
C2 Ieuan Wyn Jones The Leader of the Opposition siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 4
What are the report back mechanisms for the Homelessness Commission? (OAQ9252)
Beth yw’r dulliau adrodd-yn-ôl ar gyfer Comisiwn y Digartref? (OAQ9252)
The Homelessness Commission is a task and finish group and is working to a tight timescale. It will present a mid-term progress report to the Local Government and Housing Committee on 2 May. That will be followed by the final report, which will be presented to Committee on 24 October. The commission holds its monthly meetings in open sessions where the public and the press are able to attend and observe. It was indicated in the Local Government and Housing Committee last week that the Committee would receive regular updates of information from the Commission.
Grŵp gorchwyl a gorffen yw Comisiwn y Digartref ac mae’n gweithio i amserlen dynn. Cyflwyna adroddiad cynnydd canol tymor i’r Pwyllgor Llywodraeth Leol a Thai ar 2 Mai. Dilynir hynny gan yr adroddiad terfynol, a gyflwynir i’r Pwyllgor ar 24 Hydref. Mae’r comisiwn yn cynnal ei gyfarfodydd misol mewn sesiynau agored lle y gall y cyhoedd a’r wasg fod yn bresennol ac arsylwi. Nodwyd yn y Pwyllgor Llywodraeth Leol a Thai yr wythnos diwethaf y buasai’r Pwyllgor yn derbyn yr wybodaeth ddiweddaraf gan y Comisiwn yn rheolaidd.
Do you recall that on 20 June 2000 we had a debate to consider a draft Order to extend the categories of homeless people and that the Assembly agreed to make such a draft Order within four months? Seven months have elapsed since that debate. Will you give an indication of when that is likely to come?
A gofiwch inni gael dadl ar 20 Mehefin 2000 i ystyried Gorchymyn drafft i ehangu categorïau pobl ddigartref ac i’r Cynulliad gytuno i wneud Gorchymyn drafft o’r fath o fewn pedwar mis? Aeth saith mis heibio ers y ddadl honno. A roddwch syniad inni pryd y mae hynny’n debygol o ddod?
In 1999, local authorities decided that a total of 3,700 households were homeless. Will the Minister confirm whether any commitment to reduce this number during 2000 was fulfilled?
Yn 1999, penderfynodd awdurdodau lleol bod cyfanswm o 3,700 o deuluoedd yn ddigartref. A gadarnha’r Gweinidog p’un a gyflawnwyd unrhyw ymrwymiad i leihau’r nifer hon yn ystod 2000 ai peidio?
I am afraid, William, that I do not have that statistical information, but I will make it available to you. It is clear that we should keep to our commitments in respect of tackling homelessness and I will send the statistics to you and advise Members of the situation.
Mae arnaf ofn, William, nad oes gennyf yr wybodaeth ystadegol honno, ond sicrhaf y bydd ar gael ichi. Mae’n amlwg y dylem gadw at ein hymrwymiadau o ran mynd i’r afael â digartrefedd ac anfonaf yr ystadegau atoch a hysbysu’r Aelodau o’r sefyllfa.
Gwella Atebolrwydd Llywodraeth Leol
Improving the Accountability of Local Government
Will Edwina Hart make a statement on measures to improve the accountability of local government? (OAQ9214)
A wnaiff Edwina Hart ddatganiad ar fesurau i wella atebolrwydd llywodraeth leol? (OAQ9214)
The Assembly is currently involved in a consultation exercise on the Local Government Act 2000. This includes, particularly in part 2 of the Act, a number of measures designed to improve the transparency, efficiency and accountability of local government in Wales.
Ar hyn o bryd mae’r Cynulliad wrthi’n cymryd rhan mewn ymarfer ymgynghori ar Ddeddf Llywodraeth Leol 2000. Mae hon yn cynnwys, yn rhan 2 o’r Ddeddf yn arbennig, nifer o fesurau a fwriadwyd i wella tryloywder, effeithlonrwydd ac atebolrwydd llywodraeth leol yng Nghymru.
In that consultation, have you received any representation on whether the Chairs of council committees should reflect the council’s overall political balance?
Yn yr ymgynghoriad hwnnw, a dderbyniasoch unrhyw sylwadau ar p’un a ddylai Cadeiryddion pwyllgorau cynghorau adlewyrchu cydbwysedd gwleidyddol cyffredinol y cyngor ai peidio?
We are considering the representations received as a result of consultation. I have indication that there have been issues about political balance. I have also had a number of indications and concerns about who chairs scrutiny committees if a majority party is in power. Those issues will be taken into account and I will note your point.
Ystyriwn y sylwadau a dderbyniwyd o ganlyniad i’r ymgynghoriad. Yr wyf ar ddeall y bu materion ynghylch cydbwysedd gwleidyddol. Yn ogystal, cefais nifer o sylwadau a phryderon ynghylch pwy sydd yn cadeirio pwyllgorau archwilio os bydd plaid mwyafrifol mewn grym. Ystyrir y materion hynny a nodaf eich pwynt.
Do you agree that in the interest of accountability, where a county council is in possession of an audit commission report, which is of public interest and contains severe criticisms of that council, it has a duty to be accountable to the public by making it clear how and when it intends to deal with the recommendations contained in that report?
A gytunwch ei bod yn ddyletswydd ar gyngor sir, er budd atebolrwydd, lle y bydd yn berchen ar adroddiad comisiwn archwilio, sydd o ddiddordeb cyhoeddus ac sydd yn cynnwys beirniadaeth lem ar y cyngor hwnnw, i fod yn atebol i’r cyhoedd drwy egluro sut a phryd y bwriada ddelio â’r argymhellion a geir yn yr adroddiad hwnnw?
You are referring to recent reports about local authorities. I do not want to comment on individual cases, but some of the issues raised in these reports are matters purely for the local authorities. We need transparency when these reports are issued on what action should be taken by local authorities.
Cyfeiriwch at adroddiadau diweddar am awdurdodau lleol. Nid wyf am wneud sylwadau ar achosion unigol, ond mae rhai o’r materion a godwyd yn yr adroddiadau hyn yn faterion i’r awdurdodau lleol yn unig. Mae angen tryloywder arnom pan gyhoeddir yr adroddiadau hyn o ran pa gamau y dylai awdurdodau lleol eu cymryd.
Diddymu Tlodi Plant
Eradicating Child Poverty
How will the Communities First programme help to eradicate child poverty throughout Wales? (OAQ9189)
Sut y bydd y rhaglen Rhoi Cymunedau’n Gyntaf yn helpu i ddiddymu tlodi plant ledled Cymru? (OAQ9189)
A grant will be allocated to a range of activities in those communities selected for support under Communities First. In addition, the National Assembly and its partners, in allocating funds under existing expenditure programmes, will give high priority to the Communities First areas. Examples of programmes relating to children and local plans are Sure Start and the Children and Youth Partnership Fund. However, I will give further consideration to what work can be done in this area.
Dyrennir grant i amrywiaeth o weithgareddau yn y cymunedau hynny a ddetholwyd i dderbyn cymorth o dan Rhoi Cymunedau’n Gyntaf. Yn ogystal, rhydd y Cynulliad Cenedlaethol a’i bartneriaid, wrth ddyrannu arian o dan raglenni gwariant presennol, flaenoriaeth uchel i ardaloedd Rhoi Cymunedau’n Gyntaf. Mae Cychwyn Cadarn a’r Gronfa Partneriaeth Plant a Phobl Ifanc yn enghreifftiau o raglenni sydd yn ymwneud â phlant a chynlluniau lleol. Fodd bynnag, ystyriaf ymhellach pa waith y gellir ei wneud yn y maes hwn.
I have a copy here of the Welsh index of multiple deprivation with specific reference to child poverty. Unfortunately, three wards in my constituency are among the first 18 on the list and in the Newport East constituency there are another two among the top 41. My concern is that we do not have any Objective 1 and little Objective 2 funding. What additional help can you give to voluntary organisations, Newport County Borough Council and the health providers to help eradicate the scourge of child poverty in my constituency? You have just mentioned the Children and Youth Partnership Fund, which is being well spent in Newport, but it is not enough. What will you do to help places such as my constituency, that are outside the Objective 1 area, to eradicate this dreadful scourge?
Mae gennyf gopi yma o fynegrif amddifadedd lluosog Cymru sydd yn cyfeirio’n benodol at dlodi plant. Yn anffodus, mae tair ward yn fy etholaeth ymhlith y 18 cyntaf ar y rhestr ac yn etholaeth Dwyrain Casnewydd mae dwy arall ymhlith y 41 uchaf. Fy mhryder yw nad oes gennym unrhyw arian Amcan 1 o gwbl ac ychydig iawn o arian Amcan 2. Pa gymorth ychwanegol y gallwch ei roi i sefydliadau gwirfoddol, i Gyngor Bwrdeistref Sirol Casnewydd ac i’r darparwyr iechyd er mwyn diddymu pla tlodi plant yn fy etholaeth? Yr ydych newydd grybwyll y Gronfa Partneriaeth Plant ac Ieuenctid, a gaiff ei gwario mewn ffordd dda yng Nghasnewydd, ond nid yw hynny’n ddigon. Beth a wnewch i helpu lleoedd megis fy etholaeth, sydd y tu allan i ardal Amcan 1, i ddiddymu’r pla ofnadwy hwn?
Child poverty is an important issue, which impinges on many policy areas. Assembly Ministers attend meetings of the social exclusion ministerial network in London to discuss issues and to look at deprived areas. I will consider your point about communities that are outside the structural fund areas to see what further initiatives can be taken and how we can look at streamlining money to help all children across Wales.
Mae tlodi plant yn fater pwysig, sydd yn cyffwrdd â sawl maes polisi. Mae Gweinidogion y Cynulliad yn mynychu cyfarfodydd y rhwydwaith gweinidogol ar allgáu cymdeithasol yn Llundain er mwyn trafod materion ac edrych ar ardaloedd difreintiedig. Ystyriaf eich pwynt am gymunedau sydd y tu allan i ardaloedd y gronfa strwythurol i weld pa fentrau pellach y gellir eu cymryd a sut y gallwn edrych ar liflinio arian i helpu pob plentyn ledled Cymru.
The House of Commons’ Welsh Affairs Select Committee report, ‘Social Exclusion in Wales’ contains disturbing statistics about children. Up to 37 per cent of children in Wales live in poverty, 3,400 are looked after by local authorities, and 2,500 are on the child protection register. The report also highlighted problems facing children affected by domestic abuse. The trauma of witnessing violence and abuse frequently produces behavioural problems and developmental delay. Leaving the family home may also lead to disruption to education and health care. Will the Minister consider developing a strategy to meet the needs of children suffering as a result of domestic violence?
Mae adroddiad Pwyllgor Dethol Tŷ’r Cyffredin ar Faterion Cymreig, sef ‘Allgáu Cymdeithasol yng Nghymru’ yn cynnwys ystadegau am blant sydd yn peri pryder. Mae hyd at 37 y cant o blant Cymru yn byw mewn tlodi, gofelir am 3,400 ohonynt gan awdurdodau lleol, ac mae 2,500 ar y gofrestr diogelu plant. Yr oedd yr adroddiad hefyd yn amlygu problemau sydd yn wynebu plant yr effeithir arnynt gan gam-drin yn y cartref. Mae’r trawma o fod yn dyst i drais a chamdriniaeth yn aml yn creu problemau ymddygiad ac yn oedi’r broses ddatblygu. Gall gadael cartref y teulu hefyd arwain at amharu ar addysg a gofal iechyd. A ystyria’r Gweinidog ddatblygu strategaeth i ddiwallu anghenion plant sydd yn dioddef o ganlyniad i drais yn y cartref?
There are several organisations in Wales that assist women and children who are victims of domestic violence. However, I will consider the issues that you raised and discuss them with Jane Hutt, who also has responsibilities in this area. Too often, we forget the suffering of children who are affected by domestic violence and its psychological impact on their lives. I will take this matter on board and make inquiries as to what is currently going on in this field, if that will be of help to the Member, and I will reply to him.
Mae sawl sefydliad yng Nghymru sydd yn cynorthwyo merched a phlant sydd yn dioddef o drais yn y cartref. Fodd bynnag, ystyriaf y materion a godwyd gennych a’u trafod â Jane Hutt, sydd hefyd â chyfrifoldebau yn y maes hwn. Yn rhy aml, anghofiwn ddioddefaint plant y mae trais yn y cartref yn effeithio arnynt a’i effaith seicolegol ar eu bywydau. Ystyriaf y mater hwn a gwnaf ymholiadau o ran beth sydd yn digwydd yn y maes hwn ar hyn o bryd, os bydd hynny o gymorth i’r Aelod, a rhoddaf ateb iddo.
Adeiladu Tai Awdurdodau Lleol yn Rhaeadr
Building Local Authority Houses in Rhayader
Q5 Nick Bourne The Leader of the Welsh Conservatives spoken in English p. 7
C5 Nick Bourne Arweinydd Ceidwadwyr Cymru siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 7
Is Edwina Hart aware of any plans to build more local authority houses in Rhayader? (OAQ9228)
A yw Edwina Hart yn ymwybodol o unrhyw gynlluniau i adeiladu mwy o dai awdurdodau lleol yn Rhaeadr? (OAQ9228)
I am not aware of any such plans.
Nid wyf yn ymwybodol o unrhyw gynlluniau o’r fath.
Do you agree that building local authority, private or social housing in unemployment blackspots like Rhayader and Llandrindod Wells, is inappropriate when all that means is more competition for the few jobs that exist locally, and a greater strain on local facilities?
A gytunwch bod adeiladu tai awdurdodau lleol, preifat neu gymdeithasol mewn mannau o ddiweithdra amlwg megis Rhaeadr a Llandrindod, yn amhriodol pan mai’r cyfan a olyga hynny fydd mwy o gystadleuaeth am yr ychydig swyddi sydd yn bodoli yn lleol, a mwy o straen ar gyfleusterau lleol?
I am not aware of the details on housing in that area. However, it is important to recognise that there is sometimes a need for housing in local communities, but that must be balanced by what the local authority considers appropriate and take into account the views of the communities, because there are implications for services.
Nid wyf yn ymwybodol o’r manylion am dai yn yr ardal honno. Fodd bynnag, mae’n bwysig cydnabod bod angen am dai mewn cymunedau lleol weithiau, ond rhaid cydbwyso hynny yn ôl yr hyn a ystyrir yn briodol gan yr awdurdod lleol ac ystyried safbwyntiau’r cymunedau, oherwydd mae goblygiadau i wasanaethau.
Perhaps I could shed light on the proposed development, which has the support of Rhayader town council, for 60 houses to be built using energy-efficient specifications and sustainable building materials. Do you agree that what the majority of people in Rhayader want is improvements to the current council housing stock? What can this administration do to help councils improve the housing that already exists for people in Rhayader?
Efallai y gallwn i fwrw goleuni ar y datblygiad arfaethedig, y mae cyngor tref Rhaeadr yn ei gefnogi, i adeiladu 60 o dai gan ddefnyddio manylebau ynni-effeithlon a deunyddiau adeiladu cynaliadwy. A gytunwch mai gwelliannau i stoc dai presennol y cyngor y mae’r mwyafrif o bobl Rhaeadr yn ei ddymuno? Beth all y weinyddiaeth hon ei wneud i helpu cynghorau i wella’r tai sydd yn bodoli eisoes ar gyfer pobl yn Rhaeadr?
I am sure that improvement to the local housing stock is what most people would want. Our plan for tackling the local authorities and housing, and the additional funds that we have made available in the budget and through the partnership agreement, is the way forward on these matters.
Yr wyf yn siŵr mai’r hyn y byddai’r rhan fwyaf o bobl yn ei ddymuno yw gwella’r stoc tai lleol. Ein cynllun ar gyfer mynd i’r afael â’r awdurdodau lleol a thai, a’r arian ychwanegol yr ydym wedi ei ryddhau yn y gyllideb a thrwy’r cytundeb partneriaeth, yw’r ffordd ymlaen ar y materion hyn.
Ynglŷn â rhenti tai yn Rhaeadr ac ardaloedd gwledig cyffelyb, a wnaiff y Gweinidog gadarnhau’r hyn a ddywedodd Peter Black mewn ateb i ddadl ddydd Iau diwethaf, sef y bydd hi’n gwneud arian ychwanegol ar gael i awdurdodau lleol er mwyn darparu tai newydd i’w rhenti neu brynu ar bris rhesymol? A ddywed wrth y Cynulliad faint o arian ychwanegol a fydd ar gael ac a fydd ar gael erbyn mis Ebrill nesaf?
With regard to renting houses in Rhayader and similar rural areas, will the Minister confirm what Peter Black said in his response to a debate last Thursday, namely that she will make additional funding available to local authorities to provide new houses for rent or purchase at a reasonable price? Will she tell the Assembly how much additional funding will be available and whether it will be available by next April?
Mynd i’r Afael â Thlodi
Tackling Poverty
How will Edwina Hart ensure that local authorities in Wales target tackling poverty in their spending plans? (OAQ9255)
Sut y bydd Edwina Hart yn sicrhau bod awdurdodau lleol Cymru yn mynd i’r afael â thlodi yn eu cynlluniau gwariant? (OAQ9255)
That is a difficult matter, which local authorities must consider carefully. They need to assess their needs in terms of deprivation in their areas. They must then consider the range of facilities and services that they offer and the education and social services provision so that they can target those things correctly. Local government is aware of our policies on the need to tackle social deprivation and is well equipped to fit neatly into our plan.
Mae hynny yn fater anodd, y bydd yn rhaid i awdurdodau lleol ei ystyried yn ofalus. Bydd angen iddynt asesu eu hanghenion yn nhermau amddifadedd yn eu hardaloedd. Yna bydd yn rhaid iddynt ystyried amrywiaeth y cyfleusterau a’r gwasanaethau a gynigiant a’r ddarpariaeth addysg a gwasanaethau cymdeithasol er mwyn iddynt allu targedu’r pethau hynny’n gywir. Mae llywodraeth leol yn ymwybodol o’n polisïau ar yr angen i fynd i’r afael ag amddifadedd cymdeithasol ac mae’n dra chymwys i gydweddu’n addas â’n cynllun.
I am aware that the moneys allocated to the Sure Start programme are underspent. What are your plans for that underspend?
Yr wyf yn ymwybodol y tanwariwyd yr arian a ddyrannwyd i’r rhaglen Cychwyn Cadarn. Beth yw eich cynlluniau ar gyfer y tanwariant hwnnw?
I am currently holding discussions on that with the Minister for Health and Social Services. There are many reasons for underspending in certain areas. Often, it is no-one’s fault and is due to the way that money is structured. However, that submission is already on my desk.
Yr wyf wrthi’n cynnal trafodaethau ar hynny ar hyn o bryd gyda’r Gweinidog dros Iechyd a Gwasanaethau Cymdeithasol. Mae llawer o resymau dros danwario mewn meysydd penodol. Yn aml, nid bai unrhyw un yw hyn ac mae’n ganlyniad i’r ffordd y strwythurir arian. Fodd bynnag, mae’r cyflwyniad hwnnw eisoes ar fy nesg.
Does the Minister agree that the Barnett formula does not fully recognise the level of poverty in some local government areas and therefore their ability to take effective action?
A gytuna’r Gweinidog nad yw fformwla Barnett yn llawn gydnabod lefel y tlodi mewn rhai ardaloedd llywodraeth leol ac felly eu gallu i gymryd camau effeithiol?
The Barnett formula refers to our arrangements with central Government. I must take responsibility for what I can do to deal with poverty and social exclusion in Wales and how I target Assembly resources. I will leave my statement at that because I do not want to have a discussion on the Barnett formula today.
Cyfeiria fformwla Barnett at ein trefniadau â Llywodraeth ganolog. Rhaid imi gymryd cyfrifoldeb dros yr hyn y gallaf i ei wneud i ddelio â thlodi ac allgáu cymdeithasol yng Nghymru a sut y targedaf adnoddau’r Cynulliad. Gadawaf fy natganiad gyda hynny gan nad wyf am gael trafodaeth ar fformwla Barnett heddiw.
In light of this morning’s announcement, can the Minister tell us what she intends to do about poverty in the Llanwern area of Newport, not to mention Carmarthen and Cardiff? Does she regret the fact that this poverty is created by her Governments’ policies of imposing increased red tape and bureaucracy, higher business rates in Wales than in England and all kinds of other regulations that are making businesses uncompetitive? How are local authorities supposed to deal with such poverty in the face of the economic mismanagement of her own Government?
Yng ngoleuni cyhoeddiad y bore yma, a all y Gweinidog ddweud wrthym beth y bwriada ei wneud am dlodi yn ardal Llanwern yng Nghasnewydd, heb sôn am Gaerfyrddin a Chaerdydd? A yw’n edifar mai polisïau ei Llywodraeth hi o orfodi rhagor o fiwrocratiaeth, ardrethi busnes uwch yng Nghymru nag yn Lloegr a phob math o reoliadau eraill sydd yn peri bod busnesau yn anghystadleuol a achosodd y tlodi hwn? Sut y mae disgwyl i awdurdodau lleol ddelio â thlodi o’r fath yn wyneb camreolaeth economaidd ei Llywodraeth ei hun?
I am responsible for many things, but the march of global capitalism is not one of them.
Yr wyf yn gyfrifol am lawer o bethau, ond nid yw hynt cyfalafiaeth fyd-eang yn un ohonynt.
Brian Gibbons a gododd—
Brian Gibbons rose—
Dafydd Elis-Thomas The Presiding Officer spoken in English p. 10
Dafydd Elis-Thomas Y Llywydd siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 10
Order. I will take points of order immediately after questions. Question 7 has been transferred for written answer.
Trefn. Cymeraf bwyntiau o drefn yn syth ar ôl y cwestiynau. Trosglwyddwyd Cwestiwn 7 i’w ateb yn ysgrifenedig.
Cyllid Llywodraeth Leol
Local Government Finance
Will Edwina Hart make a statement on the administration’s consultation paper on local government finance? (OAQ9216)
A wnaiff Edwina Hart ddatganiad ar bapur ymgynghori’r weinyddiaeth ar gyllid llywodraeth leol? (OAQ9216)
The Cabinet consultation on local government finance ended on 31 December. We received over 100 responses and the Local Government and Housing Committee will consider these on 28 February.
Daeth ymgynghoriad y Cabinet ar gyllid llywodraeth leol i ben ar 31 Rhagfyr. Derbyniasom fwy na 100 o ymatebion a bydd y Pwyllgor Llywodraeth Leol a Thai yn ystyried y rhain ar 28 Chwefror.
I am grateful for that reply. The consultation paper released last September proposed that there could be a standard spending assessment for delegated schools budgets. Does the Minister not agree that this would be a good way to start clearing up the funding fog that exists in education spending in Wales? Will she also resist pressure from the Welsh Local Government Association to maintain a system where nobody knows what councils should be spending on education?
Yr wyf yn ddiolchgar am yr ateb hwnnw. Yr oedd y papur ymgynghorol a ryddhawyd fis Medi diwethaf yn cynnig y gallai fod yna asesiad gwario safonol ar gyfer cyllidebau ysgolion a ddirprwywyd. Oni chytuna’r Gweinidog y byddai hyn yn ffordd dda i ddechrau clirio’r niwl o ran ariannu sydd yn bodoli o ran gwariant ar addysg yng Nghymru? A ymwrthoda hefyd â phwysau gan Gymdeithas Llywodraeth Leol Cymru i gynnal system lle nad ŵyr unrhyw un beth y dylai cynghorau fod yn ei wario ar addysg?
There is no funding fog. People in this Chamber are creating the fog. My relationship with the WLGA is such that I greatly value its work in education, as does the Minister for Education and Lifelong Learning. I will consider your points when I have the opportunity to read all the responses on the consultation document. There will be a free and open discussion in the Local Government and Housing Committee.
Nid oes niwl o ran ariannu. Pobl yn y Siambr hon sydd yn creu’r niwl. Mae fy mherthynas â Chymdeithas Llywodraeth Leol Cymru yn golygu fy mod yn rhoi gwerth mawr ar y gwaith a wna mewn addysg, fel y mae’r Gweinidog dros Addysg a Dysgu Gydol Oes. Ystyriaf eich pwyntiau pan gaf y cyfle i ddarllen yr holl ymatebion ar y ddogfen ymgynghori. Cynhelir trafodaeth rydd ac agored yn y Pwyllgor Llywodraeth Leol a Thai.
Lwfansau Cynghorwyr yng Nghymru
Councillors’ Allowances in Wales
What discussions has Edwina Hart had with the Welsh Local Government Association regarding councillors’ allowances in Wales? (OAQ9244)
Pa drafodaethau y mae Edwina Hart wedi’u cael gyda Chymdeithas Llywodraeth Leol Cymru ynghylch lwfansau cynghorwyr yng Nghymru? (OAQ9244)
I decided to commission an independent study of councillors’ remuneration, including factors that made it easier for a wide cross-section of the public to understand. The WLGA will have an opportunity to contribute its views on the study and comment on the findings.
Penderfynais gomisiynu astudiaeth annibynnol o gyflog cynghorwyr, gan gynnwys ffactorau a fyddai’n ei gwneud yn haws i drawsdoriad eang o’r cyhoedd ei ddeall. Bydd cyfle i Gymdeithas Llywodraeth Leol Cymru gyfrannu ei safbwyntiau ar yr astudiaeth a gwneud sylwadau ar y canfyddiadau.
Do you agree that clear and uniform guidelines, which are open to the public and well understood are desirable?
A gytunwch bod canllawiau clir ac unffurf, sydd yn agored i’r cyhoedd ac yn hawdd eu deall yn ddymunol?
Absolutely. That has been part of the problem in the past. We need to have clear guidelines so that the public understands why remuneration is given, what it is for and what it is in respect of, and we need absolute transparency in the process in the future.
Yn llwyr. Dyna fu rhan o’r broblem yn y gorffennol. Mae angen canllawiau clir arnom er mwyn i’r cyhoedd ddeall pam y telir cyflog, beth yw ei ddiben ac ym mha gyswllt y’i telir, ac mae angen tryloywder llwyr yn y broses yn y dyfodol.
Cwestiynau i’r Gweinidog dros yr Amgylchedd
Questions to the Minister for Environment
Polisi Cynllunio yng Nghymru
Planning Policy in Wales
How will planning policy in Wales contribute to social inclusion? (OAQ9280)
Sut y bydd polisi cynllunio yng Nghymru’n cyfrannu at gynhwysiant cymdeithasol? (OAQ9280)
Sue Essex The Minister for Environment spoken in English p. 11
Sue Essex Y Gweinidog dros yr Amgylchedd siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 11
The Assembly’s draft Planning Policy (Wales) document will be issued for public consultation in February. As a member of the Committee, you will know that the draft came to the previous Environment, Planning and Transport Committee. This document, when published in its final form later this year, will set the framework for land use planning in Wales. All policies in Planning Policy (Wales) have been assessed to ensure that they encourage the development of an inclusive society and deliver the objective of maximising opportunities for community development and social welfare. Planning policies for housing, transport, crime prevention, economic development and conservation are particularly important and local authorities will deliver these policies at the local level through their development plans and the development control process.
Cyhoeddir dogfen ddrafft y Cynulliad ar Bolisi Cynllunio (Cymru) er mwyn i’r cyhoedd ymgynghori arni ym mis Chwefror. Fel aelod o’r Pwyllgor, gwyddoch i’r drafft ddod at y Pwyllgor Amgylchedd, Cynllunio a Thrafnidiaeth blaenorol. Bydd y ddogfen hon, pan gaiff ei chyhoeddi ar ei ffurf derfynol yn ddiweddarach eleni, yn gosod y fframwaith ar gyfer cynllunio defnydd tir yng Nghymru. Aseswyd pob polisi ym Mholisi Cynllunio (Cymru) er mwyn sicrhau eu bod yn annog datblygiad cymdeithas gynhwysol ac yn cyflawni’r amcan o sicrhau’r cyfleoedd mwyaf posibl ar gyfer datblygu cymunedol a lles cymdeithasol. Mae polisïau cynllunio ar gyfer tai, trafnidiaeth, atal troseddau, datblygiad economaidd a chadwraeth yn arbennig o bwysig a bydd awdurdodau lleol yn cyflwyno’r polisïau hyn ar lefel leol drwy eu cynlluniau datblygu a’r broses rheoli datblygiad.
Poor planning has contributed to social exclusion in the past. That is evident in the Valleys where there are isolated housing estates with poor transport that are not connected to services and jobs. Regeneration of these areas should be at the heart of our policies. Can you outline how Planning Policy (Wales) will help to do that?
Cyfrannodd cynllunio gwael at allgáu cymdeithasol yn y gorffennol. Mae hynny’n amlwg yn y Cymoedd lle ceir ystadau tai ynysig gyda thrafnidiaeth wael nad ydynt wedi eu cysylltu â gwasanaethau a swyddi. Dylai adfywio’r ardaloedd hyn fod wrth wraidd ein polisïau. A allwch amlinellu sut y bydd Polisi Cynllunio (Cymru) yn helpu i wneud hynny?
You are right to say that some of the housing developments, in particular, that were put in isolated locations—often with the best intentions of providing people with decent accommodation—in retrospect lead to the kind of problems that you mentioned, such as accessibility. As someone who worked in the Valleys, I am aware of those difficulties. In Planning Policy (Wales), we emphasise the problem of accessibility—that will also be emphasised in the transport document—and consider how we can ensure that people, if they live at a distance from the main urban communities, have access to appropriate transport. However, you also made the point about the need for people to be part of communities and that service structures should be at the centre of plans for regeneration. I hope that the Valleys—which, in many ways, have the shape to deliver those plans—will achieve this through working with local government, the voluntary sector and other groups.
Yr ydych yn gywir i ddweud bod rhai o’r datblygiadau tai, yn arbennig, a osodwyd mewn lleoliadau ynysig—gyda’r bwriadau gorau yn aml o ddarparu cartrefi boddhaol i bobl—wrth edrych yn ôl, yn arwain at y math o broblemau a grybwyllwyd gennych, megis hygyrchedd. Fel rhywun a weithiodd yn y Cymoedd, yr wyf yn ymwybodol o’r anawsterau hynny. Ym Mholisi Cynllunio (Cymru), pwysleisiwn broblem hygyrchedd—a bwysleisir hefyd yn y ddogfen drafnidiaeth—ac ystyriwn sut y gallwn sicrhau y gall pobl, os ydynt yn byw’n bell o’r prif gymunedau trefol, ddefnyddio trafnidiaeth briodol. Fodd bynnag, gwnaethoch y pwynt hefyd am yr angen i bobl fod yn rhan o gymunedau ac y dylai strwythurau gwasanaethau fod wrth wraidd cynlluniau ar gyfer adfywio. Gobeithiaf y bydd y Cymoedd—y mae ganddynt, mewn sawl ffordd, y ffurf i wireddu’r cynlluniau hynny—yn cyflawni hyn drwy weithio gyda llywodraeth leol, y sector gwirfoddol a grwpiau eraill.
Given the need to ensure that, as part of tackling social inclusion, policies are co-ordinated across the whole structure of local authorities, what progress is being made in encouraging councils to co-ordinate the drawing up of unitary development plans for local and statutory plans? They must draw up those plans so that we can achieve proper cross-cutting working in councils.
Ac ystyried yr angen i sicrhau, fel rhan o’r gwaith o fynd i’r afael â chynhwysiant cymdeithasol, y cydlynir polisïau ar draws strwythur cyfan awdurdodau lleol, pa gynnydd a wneir wrth annog cynghorau i gydlynu’r gwaith o lunio cynlluniau datblygu unedol ar gyfer cynlluniau lleol a statudol? Rhaid iddynt lunio’r cynlluniau hynny er mwyn inni allu cyflawni gwaith trawsbynciol gwirioneddol mewn cynghorau.
That is an important point and something that, perhaps, has not been achieved in the past. The unitary development plan guidance stresses that that must be part and parcel of an integrated programme. The community plans that local authorities now have a duty to prepare will be the core documents in which all the other plans that you mentioned—and there are many more—should be integrated. They must ensure that they dovetail. For the first time, a planning forum group has specifically looked at social inclusion and community development. Those policies, in particular, have been drawn into this draft guidance. I look forward to your comments on it.
Mae hynny’n bwynt pwysig ac yn rhywbeth na chyflawnwyd, efallai, yn y gorffennol. Pwysleisia arweiniad ar gynlluniau datblygu unedol bod yn rhaid i hynny fod yn rhan annatod o raglen integredig. Cynlluniau’r gymuned y mae’n ddyletswydd bellach ar awdurdodau lleol eu paratoi fydd y dogfennau craidd y dylai pob un o’r cynlluniau eraill a grybwyllasoch—ac mae llawer mwy—gael eu hintegreiddio iddynt. Rhaid iddynt sicrhau eu bod yn ymblethu. Am y tro cyntaf, mae grŵp fforwm cynllunio wedi edrych yn benodol ar gynhwysiant cymdeithasol a datblygiad cymunedol. Mae’r polisïau hynny, yn arbennig, wedi eu cynnwys yn yr arweiniad drafft hwn. Edrychaf ymlaen at eich sylwadau arno.
Datblygu Fframwaith Cynllunio Gofodol
Developing a Spatial Planning Framework
Will Sue Essex make a statement on the progress on the development of a spatial planning framework for Wales? (OAQ9218)
A wnaiff Sue Essex ddatganiad ar sut y mae’r gwaith o ddatblygu fframwaith cynllunio gofodol ar gyfer Cymru’n mynd yn ei flaen? (OAQ9218)
Work is progressing on the national spatial planning framework for Wales—perhaps we will have a more snappy title at some stage—to ensure its completion by the target date of 2003 set out in ‘Betterwales.com’. It is important to remember that this framework will provide a geographical expression of the Assembly’s aims. It aims to support other Assembly strategies such as the sustainable development scheme, the national economic development strategy and transport framework. It must work in conjunction with those. We recently held an event to which all Assembly Members were invited and you attended. We had a good and innovative discussion about key challenges in Wales. As the programme progresses, there will be opportunities for Assembly Members and members of relevant societies in Wales to contribute.
Mae’r gwaith yn mynd yn ei flaen ar fframwaith cynllunio gofodol cenedlaethol Cymru—efallai y bydd gennym deitl mwy bachog rywbryd—er mwyn sicrhau y caiff ei gwblhau erbyn y dyddiad targed sef 2003 a nodir yn ‘Gwellcymru.com’. Mae’n bwysig cofio y bydd y fframwaith hwn yn darparu mynegiant daearyddol o nodau’r Cynulliad. Bwriada gefnogi strategaethau eraill y Cynulliad megis y cynllun datblygiad cynaliadwy, y strategaeth datblygiad economaidd genedlaethol a’r fframwaith trafnidiaeth. Rhaid iddo weithio mewn cydweithrediad â’r rheini. Yn ddiweddar cynaliasom ddigwyddiad y gwahoddwyd pob un o Aelodau’r Cynulliad iddo ac a fynychwyd gennych. Cawsom drafodaeth dda a dyfeisgar am heriau allweddol yng Nghymru. Wrth i’r rhaglen fynd yn ei blaen, bydd cyfleoedd i Aelodau’r Cynulliad ac i aelodau o gymdeithasau perthnasol yng Nghymru gyfrannu.
Spatial planning is a significant development in terms of taking an all-Wales approach to policy implementation. Can you tell me how the private sector is contributing to this important process?
Mae cynllunio gofodol yn ddatblygiad sylweddol o ran cymryd ymagwedd Cymru gyfan at weithredu polisïau. A allwch ddweud wrthyf sut y mae’r sector preifat yn cyfrannu at y broses bwysig hon?
We invited private sector representatives to our recent seminar, but few attended. However, following that discussion—and I have discussed this with other Members—we are considering ways of achieving greater involvement by the private sector. I will attend the next Business Partnership Council meeting to discuss how we can take this process forward to ensure that it reaches this important part of the community. I know that Mike German, in his role as Minister for Economic Development, has had discussions on this and is considering how we can involve the private sector. There are difficulties that we need to address, not simply in terms of this framework, but in terms of much of the Assembly’s work.
Gwahoddasom gynrychiolwyr o’r sector preifat i’n seminar yn ddiweddar, ond ni fynychodd llawer ohonynt. Fodd bynnag, yn dilyn y drafodaeth honno—ac yr wyf wedi trafod hyn gydag Aelodau eraill—yr ydym yn ystyried ffyrdd i gynnwys y sector preifat yn fwy. Byddaf yn bresennol yng nghyfarfod nesaf y Cyngor Partneriaeth Busnes er mwyn trafod sut y gallwn ddatblygu’r broses hon i sicrhau ei bod yn cyrraedd y rhan bwysig hon o’r gymuned. Gwn fod Mike German, yn rhinwedd ei swydd fel Gweinidog dros Ddatblygu Economaidd, wedi cael trafodaethau ar hyn a’i fod yn ystyried sut y gallwn gynnwys y sector preifat. Mae yna anawsterau y mae angen inni fynd i’r afael â hwy, nid dim ond o ran y fframwaith hwn, ond o ran llawer o waith y Cynulliad.
You know that the Welsh Conservatives support the target of building two-thirds of new developments on brownfield rather than greenfield sites. The administration is falling short of that target in Wales. By how much is it falling short?
Gwyddoch fod Ceidwadwyr Cymru yn cefnogi’r targed o adeiladu dwy ran o dair o ddatblygiadau newydd ar safleoedd tir llwyd yn hytrach na safleoedd tir glas. Nid yw’r weinyddiaeth yn cyflawni’r targed hwnnw yng Nghymru. O faint y mae’n methu?
It is the function of local authorities to develop their own land and give approval for developing land. Planning guidance clearly encourages local authorities to develop brownfield sites prior to greenfield development. However, we must be realistic, because there are in-built difficulties in developing brownfield sites. The term ‘brownfield’ includes a whole spectrum of types of land. It is a generic term. We must build on work that the Welsh Development Agency began through the Land Registry to consider ways of connecting those brownfield sites. I will work with Mike German to look at ways that local authorities can encourage that development of brownfield land, working with the landowners and the people within the community.
Swyddogaeth awdurdodau lleol yw datblygu eu tir eu hunain a rhoi cymeradwyaeth i ddatblygu tir. Mae arweiniad cynllunio yn annog awdurdodau lleol yn glir i ddatblygu safleoedd tir llwyd cyn datblygu tir glas. Fodd bynnag, rhaid inni fod yn realistig, gan fod yna anawsterau annatod wrth ddatblygu safleoedd tir llwyd. Mae’r term ‘tir llwyd’ yn cynnwys sbectrwm cyfan o fathau o dir. Term cyffredinol ydyw. Rhaid inni adeiladu ar y gwaith a ddechreuodd Awdurdod Datblygu Cymru drwy’r Gofrestrfa Tir i ystyried ffyrdd o gysylltu’r safleoedd tir llwyd hynny. Gweithiaf gyda Mike German i edrych ar ffyrdd y gall awdurdodau lleol annog datblygu tir llwyd, gan weithio gyda’r tirfeddianwyr a’r bobl o fewn y gymuned.
Hybu Ynni Adnewyddadwy
Promoting Renewable Energy
How is Sue Essex promoting renewable energy in Wales? (OAQ9283)
Sut y mae Sue Essex yn hybu ynni adnewyddadwy yng Nghymru? (OAQ9283)
The Table Office told me that this question had been transferred for answer by Mike German because it covers promotion of renewable energy. That is his responsibility as Deputy First Minister and Minister for Economic Development. I have responsibility for sustainable development [Interruption.] Let me finish what I have to say. The Table Office has advised me that it is Mike German’s responsibility. Therefore, I do not need to answer the question but I am happy to do so, Llywydd, in that context, although Mike German would not answer in exactly the same way.
Dywedodd y Swyddfa Gyflwyno wrthyf y trosglwyddwyd y cwestiwn hwn i Mike German ei ateb am ei fod yn cwmpasu hyrwyddo ynni adnewyddadwy. Ei gyfrifoldeb ef fel Dirprwy Brif Weinidog Cymru a Gweinidog dros Ddatblygu Economaidd ydyw. Mae gennyf gyfrifoldeb dros ddatblygu cynaliadwy [Torri ar draws.] Gadewch imi orffen yr hyn sydd gennyf i’w ddweud. Mae’r Swyddfa Gyflwyno wedi fy nghynghori mai cyfrifoldeb Mike German ydyw. Felly, nid oes angen imi ateb y cwestiwn ond yr wyf yn hapus i wneud hynny, Lywydd, yn y cyd-destun hwnnw, er na fyddai Mike German yn ateb yn union yr un ffordd.
As I understand it, the document outlining the renewable energy strategy—which is part of the overall energy strategy—was submitted to the Assembly last week and it will be presented to the next meeting of the Economic Development Committee for views. I believe that the Economic Development Committee yesterday discussed undertaking an in-depth study on renewable energy. That will then dovetail into the planning guidance work that is being prepared, which we have talked about previously. A small team of people representing wide interests will provide technical advice on planning and location to underpin that renewable energy strategy. The other point that I want to make, with my sustainable development hat on, is that I have asked Delyth Evans, as the Deputy Minister for Rural Affairs, Culture and Environment, to look at Objective 1 funds and how they can be used to underpin and promote sustainable development.
Yn ôl yr hyn a ddeallaf, cyflwynwyd y ddogfen sydd yn amlinellu’r strategaeth ynni adnewyddadwy—sydd yn rhan o’r strategaeth ynni gyffredinol—i’r Cynulliad yr wythnos diwethaf a chaiff ei gyflwyno i gyfarfod nesaf y Pwyllgor Datblygu Economaidd i gael barn. Credaf i’r Pwyllgor Datblygu Economaidd ddoe drafod ymgymryd ag astudiaeth fanwl ar ynni adnewyddadwy. Bydd hynny wedyn yn cydblethu i’r gwaith arweiniad cynllunio a gaiff ei ddarparu, yr ydym wedi siarad amdano’n flaenorol. Bydd tîm bach o bobl sydd yn cynrychioli buddiannau eang yn darparu cyngor technegol ar gynllunio a lleoliad i gynnal y strategaeth ynni adnewyddadwy honno. Y pwynt arall yr wyf am ei wneud, gan wisgo fy het datblygu cynaliadwy, yw fy mod wedi gofyn i Delyth Evans, fel y Dirprwy Weinidog dros Faterion Gwledig, Diwylliant a’r Amgylchedd, edrych ar arian Amcan 1 a sut y gellir ei ddefnyddio i gynnal ac annog datblygu cynaliadwy.
Sue is well aware that the hold-ups in the development of sustainable energy stem from the refusal to give planning guidelines. Bearing in mind the recent report from the scientific committee of the inter-governmental panel on climate change, which shows that the latest predictions are even more serious than previous ones, do you agree that guidelines to allow the rapid development of all forms of renewable energy according to a spatial strategy is an urgent priority?
Mae Sue yn hollol ymwybodol bod yr oedi wrth ddatblygu ynni cynaliadwy yn deillio o’r penderfyniad i wrthod rhoi canllawiau cynllunio. O ystyried yr adroddiad diweddar gan bwyllgor gwyddonol y panel rhyng-lywodraethol ar newid hinsawdd, a ddengys fod y rhagamcanion diweddaraf hyd yn oed yn fwy difrifol na’r rhai blaenorol, a gytunwch fod canllawiau i ganiatáu datblygu pob math o ynni adnewyddadwy yn gyflym yn unol â strategaeth ofodol yn flaenoriaeth frys?
I do not accept that calling-in several applications, decisions that were based solely on advice, is holding up the renewable energy sector. It would be wrong to suggest that. The percentage of applications called-in is minuscule. As Members of the Environment, Planning and Transport Committee know, I have undertaken a review of the whole approach to call-ins. The consultation will consider the criteria, about which I will have responses. We have also worked with local government to look at the procedures. Those sitting on the Committee have been part of the review and are being consulted. Let us put the issue of call-ins to one side.
Ni dderbyniaf fod galw nifer o geisiadau i mewn, penderfyniadau a seiliwyd ar gyngor yn unig, yn dal y sector ynni adnewyddadwy yn ôl. Byddai’n anghywir awgrymu hynny. Mae canran y ceisiadau a elwir i mewn yn fach iawn. Fel y gŵyr Aelodau o Bwyllgor yr Amgylchedd, Cynllunio a Thrafnidiaeth, yr wyf wedi cynnal adolygiad o’r holl ymagwedd tuag at alw i mewn. Bydd yr ymgynghoriad yn ystyried y meini prawf, y bydd gennyf ymatebion amdanynt. Yr ydym hefyd wedi gweithio gyda llywodraeth leol i edrych ar y gweithdrefnau. Bu’r rhai hynny sydd ar y Pwyllgor yn rhan o’r arolygiad ac ymgynghorir â hwy. Gadewch inni roi’r mater galw i mewn o’r neilltu.
The small advisory group’s brief is to address the principle of encouraging the development of all forms of renewable energy, wherever economically attractive and environmentally acceptable in practical and spatial terms. Therefore, the instruction has been given that we want to positively promote the view that planning has to consider and be seen to address all the interests. I am sorry if it is frustrating. I know of your frustrations and I share some of them. However, we must follow correct procedures.
Cylch gorchwyl y grŵp ymgynghorol bach yw ymdrin ag egwyddor annog datblygiad pob math o ynni adnewyddadwy, pa un a yw’n ddeniadol yn economaidd ac yn dderbyniol yn amgylcheddol yn ymarferol ac yn nhermau gofodol. Felly, rhoddwyd y cyfarwyddyd ein bod am hybu’r farn bod rhaid i gynllunio ystyried ac yn cael ei weld yn ymdrin â’r holl fuddiannau. Mae’n ddrwg gennyf os yw’n rhwystredig. Gwn am eich rhwystredigaethau ac yr wyf yn rhannu rhai ohonynt. Fodd bynnag, rhaid inni ddilyn y gweithdrefnau cywir.
Tagfeydd Traffig yn Ne Cymru
Traffic Congestion in South Wales
What steps is Sue Essex taking to reduce traffic congestion in south Wales? (OAQ9208)
Pa gamau y mae Sue Essex yn eu cymryd i leihau tagfeydd traffig yn ne Cymru? (OAQ9208)
I have commissioned studies to examine ways of making better use of the existing trunk and motorway network. The M4 motorway in Wales and the A470 trunk road between Pontypridd and the M4 at Coryton, have been identified for particular consideration. The key objectives of these studies are to improve traffic flow and increase the reliability of journey times, all within the context of sustainable transport and encouraging an increased usage of public transport. My recent announcement on the allocation of transport grants includes proposals for increasing the capacity of public transport in Wales, alongside other schemes that are being promoted to encourage people to reduce car use. However, local roads are the responsibility of local authorities.
Yr wyf wedi comisiynu astudiaethau i archwilio ffyrdd o wneud gwell defnydd o’r rhwydwaith priffyrdd a thraffyrdd presennol. Nodwyd traffordd yr M4 yng Nghymru a phriffordd yr A470 rhwng Pontypridd a’r M4 yn Coryton i’w hystyried yn fanwl. Amcanion allweddol yr astudiaethau hyn yw gwella llif traffig a gwella dibynadwyedd amser teithiau, oll o fewn cyd-destun trafnidiaeth gynaliadwy ac annog defnydd helaethach o drafnidiaeth gyhoeddus. Mae fy natganiad diweddar ar ddyrannu grantiau trafnidiaeth yn cynnwys cynigion ar gyfer gwella cynhwysedd trafnidiaeth gyhoeddus yng Nghymru, ochr yn ochr â chynlluniau eraill a hyrwyddir i annog pobl i ddefnyddio eu ceir yn llai aml. Fodd bynnag, cyfrifoldeb awdurdodau lleol yw ffyrdd lleol.
Do you agree that the current level of traffic congestion in the city of Cardiff is becoming increasingly intolerable for many of our constituents? Will you lend your support to a full-scale city-wide survey of traffic and congestion, because if we are not able to diagnose the problem, surely we have no hope of solving it?
A gytunwch fod y lefel bresennol o dagfeydd traffig yn ninas Caerdydd yn dod yn gynyddol annioddefol i lawer o’n hetholaethwyr? A gefnogwch gynnal arolwg cyflawn o draffig a thagfeydd ledled y ddinas, oherwydd oni allwn ganfod y broblem, mae’n siŵr nad oes gennym unrhyw obaith o’i datrys?
I share your and others’ concerns. I have many constituents who are affected by this. The transport grant money that I announced a few weeks ago is directed towards relieving traffic congestion by encouraging modal shift. The capacity enhancements at Queen Street station, once they are up and running, will make a real difference and allow people to come into Cardiff by train. There is evidence from the growth rate in the use of Valley Lines services that that is needed. The local authority has prepared its local transport plan, which is based on a whole tranche of data. It is not essential to ask the authority to obtain more data, as it is available and included in its local transport plan. We need to work with that authority and the surrounding authorities—because this is a regional situation—to get better public transport and consider how traffic throughout Cardiff can flow better than at the moment.
Rhannaf eich pryderon chi ac eraill. Mae hyn yn effeithio ar lawer o’m hetholwyr. Dyrennir yr arian grant trafnidiaeth a gyhoeddais ychydig wythnosau yn ôl i leddfu tagfeydd traffig drwy annog newid moddol. Bydd y gwelliannau o ran cynhwysedd yng ngorsaf Heol y Frenhines, unwaith y byddant ar waith, yn gwneud gwahaniaeth mawr ac yn galluogi pobl i ddod i Gaerdydd ar y trên. Ceir tystiolaeth o’r twf yn y defnydd o wasanaethau Valley Lines bod angen hynny. Mae’r awdurdod lleol wedi paratoi ei gynllun trafnidiaeth leol, sydd yn seiliedig ar gronfa o ddata. Nid yw’n hanfodol gofyn i’r awdurdod gael mwy o ddata, gan ei fod ar gael ac yn cael ei gynnwys yn ei gynllun trafnidiaeth leol. Mae angen inni weithio gyda’r awdurdod hwnnw a’r awdurdodau cyffiniol—oherwydd mae hon yn sefyllfa ranbarthol—i gael trafnidiaeth gyhoeddus well ac ystyried sut y gall traffig drwy Gaerdydd lifo’n well nag a wna ar hyn o bryd.
Uwchraddio Rheilffordd Gogledd Cymru
Upgrading the North Wales Rail Line
A wnaiff Sue Essex ddatganiad ar y datblygiadau o ran uwchraddio rheilffordd gogledd Cymru? (OAQ9290)
Will Sue Essex make a statement on progress made to upgrade the north Wales rail line? (OAQ9290)
There has been a delay in implementing the line-speed improvements along the north coast main line, which were expected to be operational last October. You will be aware of the frustration of all of us that that did not happen. Although all the infrastructure works are in place, regrettably, design flaws have prevented trains travelling at the optimum speeds for the route. The revised proposals include 37 track miles upgraded to 90 mph running, with the remaining 23 track miles at 85 mph running. This will deliver a rounded four-minute journey time saving. My officials have met Railtrack’s North West Zone Director, who has given an assurance that line-speed improvements, which the Assembly has partly funded through the transport grant, will be in place for the summer timetable in 2001.
Bu oedi cyn gweithredu’r gwelliannau i gyflymder y rheilffordd ar hyd prif reilffordd arfordir y gogledd, y disgwyliwyd iddynt fod yn weithredol fis Hydref diwethaf. Byddwch yn ymwybodol o rwystredigaeth pawb ohonom na ddigwyddodd hynny. Er bod yr holl waith isadeiledd wedi ei wneud, yn anffodus, mae diffygion yn y cynllun wedi atal trenau rhag teithio ar y cyflymder uchaf posibl ar gyfer y llwybr. Mae’r cynigion diwygiedig yn cynnwys 37 milltir o drac wedi’i uwchraddio i gyflymder o 90 milltir yr awr, gyda’r 23 milltir o drac sydd yn weddill ar gyflymder o 85 milltir yr awr. Bydd hyn yn arbed tua phedwar munud ar y daith. Mae fy swyddogion wedi cwrdd â Chyfarwyddwr Ardal Gogledd Orllewin Railtrack, sydd wedi rhoi sicrwydd y bydd y gwelliannau i gyflymder y rheilffordd, y mae’r Cynulliad wedi’u hariannu yn rhannol drwy’r grant trafnidiaeth, ar waith ar gyfer amserlen yr haf yn 2001.
Wrth ystyried yr anawsterau mawr a fu gyda gwasanaethau rheilffordd ar hyd gogledd Cymru yn ystod y misoedd diwethaf, a’r ffaith y diflannodd gwasanaeth Virgin Trains am wythnosau tan yr wythnos hon, pa sicrwydd a allwch ei roi y ceir gwasanaeth teilwng o Gaergybi i Lundain, a gwasanaeth digonol o Gaergybi i Gaerdydd, a hynny yn fuan? Nid oes diben gwella’r rheilffordd—sydd yn angenrheidiol—oni bai bod y cwmnïau sydd yn rhedeg ar ei hyd yn cynnal a chadw gwasanaethau.
Given the great difficulties with rail services across north Wales during the past few months, and the fact that the Virgin Trains service disappeared for weeks until this week, what assurance can you give that, in the near future, there will be a decent service from Holyhead to London, and an adequate service from Holyhead to Cardiff? There is no point improving the railways—which is necessary—unless the companies that use them maintain services.
You will understand the frustration of us all. I cannot physically make these trains run on the tracks. I was in north Wales with my colleague Alun Pugh on the day when, I think, the extra delay was announced on Virgin trains. I spoke to Chris Green and made my feelings known in no uncertain terms. I understand that those three routes and the daily running of those Virgin trains are back in place. I have great sympathy for travellers in north Wales, because the uncertainty of whether these trains will run or not is unsettling and does the economy of north-west Wales no good at all. The Assembly-sponsored train, as I call it, between south and north Wales has been successful.
Byddwch yn deall rhwystredigaeth pawb ohonom. Ni allaf yn gorfforol wneud i’r trenau hyn redeg ar y rheilffyrdd. Yr oeddwn yng ngogledd Cymru gyda’m cyd-Aelod Alun Pugh ar y diwrnod pan, credaf, y cyhoeddwyd yr oedi ychwanegol ar drenau Virgin. Siaradais â Chris Green a lleisiais fy marn heb flewyn ar dafod. Deallaf fod y tri llwybr hyn a rhediad dyddiol y trenau Virgin hynny yn weithredol unwaith eto. Mae gennyf gydymdeimlad mawr dros deithwyr yng ngogledd Cymru, oherwydd mae’r ansicrwydd pa un a fydd y trenau hyn yn rhedeg ai peidio yn flinderus ac ni wna les i economi gogledd-orllewin Cymru o gwbl. Bu’r trên a noddir gan y Cynulliad, fel y galwaf hi, rhwng de a gogledd Cymru yn llwyddiannus.
On the difficult journeys that people have experienced in north Wales, on the day that I was in north Wales, the train that I caught from Cardiff to Llandudno was spot on time and did the job wonderfully. I hope that that experience will be followed up in the franchise. There is a real opportunity within this franchise and during the consultation process, which we have discussed with the Strategic Rail Authority and in Committee yesterday. That will be your, and your community’s, chance to make strong representations. I know that an information caravan or something similar has been travelling around the community. I hope that all those points will be made.
Ar y teithiau anodd y mae pobl wedi’u profi yng ngogledd Cymru, ar y diwrnod yr oeddwn yng ngogledd Cymru, yr oedd y trên a gefais o Gaerdydd i Landudno yn union ar amser a gwnaeth i’r dim. Gobeithiaf y dilynir y profiad hwnnw yn y masnachfraint. Ceir cyfle gwirioneddol o fewn y masnachfraint hwn ac yn ystod y broses ymgynghori, a drafodwyd gennym gyda’r Awdurdod Rheilffyrdd Strategol ac yn y Pwyllgor ddoe. Dyma eich cyfle chi, a’ch cymuned, i roi sylwadau cryf. Gwn bod carafán wybodaeth neu rywbeth tebyg wedi bod yn teithio o amgylch y gymuned. Gobeithiaf y gwneir pob un o’r pwyntiau hynny.
Do you agree that any company bidding for the new rail franchise should realise the importance of the terminal at Holyhead, and be required to ensure that a substantial investment is made into that station to provide good services?
A gytunwch y dylai unrhyw gwmni sydd yn cynnig ar gyfer y fasnachfraint rheilffordd newydd sylweddoli pwysigrwydd yr orsaf derfynol yng Nghaergybi, a bod angen iddo sicrhau y gwneir buddsoddiad sylweddol i’r orsaf honno i ddarparu gwasanaethau da?
You are right, Peter. That is an important point of entry and exit into Wales, particularly for tourists travelling to Ireland, but also for people travelling to Holyhead on business. It is important. We have included that in our franchise bid document. Many views will be presented on the franchise. Many people have an interest in this, not just us. Yesterday at the Committee meeting, it was suggested that we could become a focal point to pull together all those ideas and key points that we want to see delivered, to ensure that the SRA knows the feelings of people across Wales. I have offered to do that.
Yr ydych yn iawn, Peter. Mae’n fan pwysig o ran cyrraedd a gadael Cymru, yn enwedig ar gyfer twristiaid sydd yn teithio i Iwerddon, ond hefyd ar gyfer pobl sydd yn teithio i Gaergybi ar fusnes. Mae’n bwysig. Yr ydym wedi cynnwys hynny yn ein dogfen cynnig am fasnachfraint. Cyflwynir nifer o farnau ar y masnachfraint. Mae gan sawl person ddiddordeb yn hyn, nid ni yn unig. Ddoe yng nghyfarfod y Pwyllgor, awgrymwyd y gallem ddod yn ganolbwynt i ddod â’r holl syniadau hyn a’r pwyntiau allweddol yr ydym am eu gweld yn cael eu cyflwyno ynghyd, i sicrhau bod yr Awdurdod Rheilffyrdd Strategol yn gwybod am deimladau pobl ledled Cymru. Yr wyf wedi cynnig gwneud hynny.
Datganiad gan y Llywydd
Statement by the Presiding Officer
Dafydd Elis-Thomas The Presiding Officer spoken in English p. 20
Dafydd Elis-Thomas Y Llywydd siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 20
Before calling points of order, I thank the Minister for Environment for answering question 4 from Phil Williams earlier today. Standing Order No. 6.3 (iii) requires the Assembly Minister to whom a field of accountability is allocated under Section 56 (3) of the Government of Wales Act 1998 to answer oral questions in relation to that field. Guidance issued in relation to the answering of oral questions allows an oral question to be transferred to the appropriate Minister by the Assembly Cabinet, and not by the Table Office, if a question has been tabled for answer by the wrong Minister. Members will only know which Minister is accountable for a particular field for the purposes of Standing Order No. 6.3 (iii) if notice is given of an allocation of accountability. It appears from my inquiries that in this case no such formal notice was given on the assumption of responsibility for renewable energy, a matter for which the Minister for Environment has been responsible until now by another Minister. In the absence of such a notice to Members, as opposed to communication by any other form, the Member concerned, in my opinion, was entitled to table his question to the Minister for Environment and under Standing Order No. 6.3 (iii), to have her answer it. I am grateful to her for doing so this morning.
Cyn galw pwyntiau o drefn, diolchaf i’r Gweinidog dros yr Amgylchedd am ateb cwestiwn 4 gan Phil Williams yn gynharach heddiw. Mae’n ofynnol o dan Reol Sefydlog Rhif 6.3 (iii) i Weinidog y Cynulliad y dyrennir maes o atebolrwydd iddo o dan Adran 56 (3) Deddf Llywodraeth Cymru 1998 ateb cwestiynau llafar mewn perthynas â’r maes hwnnw. Mae arweiniad a gyhoeddir mewn perthynas ag ateb cwestiynau llafar yn caniatáu i gwestiwn llafar gael ei drosglwyddo i’r Gweinidog priodol gan Gabinet y Cynulliad, ac nid gan y Swyddfa Gyflwyno, os cyflwynwyd cwestiwn i’r Gweinidog anghywir ei ateb. Dim ond os rhoddir hysbysiad o ddyrannu atebolrwydd y bydd yr Aelodau’n gwybod pa Weinidog sydd yn atebol ar gyfer maes penodol at ddibenion Rheol Sefydlog Rhif 6.3 (iii). Ymddengys o’m hymholiadau yn yr achos hwn na roddwyd hysbysiad ffurfiol o’r fath wrth dderbyn cyfrifoldeb dros ynni adnewyddadwy gan Weinidog arall, mater y bu’r Gweinidog dros yr Amgylchedd yn gyfrifol amdano hyd yma. Gan na fu hysbysiad o’r fath i’r Aelodau, yn hytrach na chyfathrebu mewn unrhyw fodd arall, yn fy marn i, yr oedd gan yr Aelod dan sylw hawl i gyflwyno ei gwestiwn i’r Gweinidog dros yr Amgylchedd ac o dan Reol Sefydlog Rhif 6.3 (iii), ei chael i’w ateb. Yr wyf yn ddiolchgar iddi am wneud hyn y bore yma.
Pwyntiau o Drefn
Points of Order
Point of order. It was so obvious, after David Davies took a second breath, that the question he was asking to the Minister for Finance earlier was very tangentially related to the Minister’s area of responsibility that I was surprised that you did not deem it to be out of order straight away. It should not have been necessary for me to raise this as a point of order.
Pwynt o drefn. Yr oedd mor amlwg, wedi i David Davies gymryd gwynt am yr eildro, bod y cwestiwn a ofynnodd i’r Gweinidog dros Gyllid yn gynharach yn ymylol iawn yn gysylltiedig â maes cyfrifoldeb y Gweinidog yr oeddwn yn synnu nad oeddech yn tybio ei fod allan o drefn ar unwaith. Ni ddylai fod angen imi godi hyn fel pwynt o drefn.
Further to that point of order, the question, as you will recall, was on the subject of poverty, and I merely wished to raise the spectre of poverty in an area close to my constituency. I am sorry that Brian Gibbons did not want that important matter discussed in the Assembly today.
Ymhellach i’r pwynt hwnnw o drefn, yr oedd y cwestiwn, fel y cofiwch, ar bwnc tlodi, a dim ond sôn am fygythiad tlodi mewn ardal sydd yn agos i’m hetholaeth oedd fy mwriad. Mae’n ddrwg gennyf nad oedd Brian Gibbons am drafod y mater pwysig hwnnw yn y Cynulliad heddiw.
Dafydd Elis-Thomas The Presiding Officer spoken in English p. 21
Dafydd Elis-Thomas Y Llywydd siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 21
During questions on Tuesday, and previously, I have been trying to ensure that supplementaries are in order and relate to the original question. I took the view that this was a general question on the issue of poverty and that therefore what was said by David Davies was relevant to that question. However, I assure Brian Gibbons and other Members that in the next few months I shall be keeping a close eye on the orderliness of supplementary questions.
Yn ystod cwestiynau ddydd Mawrth, ac yn flaenorol, bûm yn ceisio sicrhau bod y cwestiynau atodol mewn trefn a’u bod yn gysylltiedig â’r cwestiwn gwreiddiol. Deuthum i’r casgliad mai cwestiwn cyffredinol oedd hwn ar dlodi ac felly yr oedd yr hyn a ddywedodd David Davies yn berthnasol i’r cwestiwn. Fodd bynnag, gallaf sicrhau Brian Gibbons ac Aelodau eraill y byddaf yn cadw golwg fanwl i sicrhau bod cwestiynau atodol mewn trefn yn yr ychydig fisoedd nesaf.
There is another point of order from the Leader of the Opposition.
Ceir pwynt arall o drefn gan Arweinydd yr Wrthblaid.
Ieuan Wyn Jones The Leader of the Opposition spoken in English p. 21
Ieuan Wyn Jones Arweinydd yr Wrthblaid siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 21
I had asked to raise a point of order, but I understand that there will be a procedural motion proposed by the Minister for Assembly Business to hold an urgent debate today on Corus. My point might be best made after that.
Yr oeddwn wedi gofyn i gael codi pwynt o drefn, ond deallaf y bydd cynnig trefniadol a gynigiwyd gan y Trefnydd i gynnal dadl frys heddiw ar Corus. Efallai y byddai’n well gwneud fy mhwynt wedi hynny.
Cynigion Trefniadol
Procedural Motions
Dafydd Elis-Thomas The Presiding Officer spoken in English p. 21
Dafydd Elis-Thomas Y Llywydd siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 21
I have had a request, not surprisingly, under Standing Order No. 6.9, to allow time during this Plenary session for an urgent debate on the announcement made today by Corus. Also, under Standing Order No. 6.16, I have had a request to postpone today’s debate on the diversity of public appointments in view of these circumstances. It will require votes on two procedural motions for that to take place. I have approved the request and call the Minister for Assembly Business to propose the motions.
Cefais gais, nad oedd yn annisgwyl, o dan Reol Sefydlog Rhif 6.9, i ganiatáu amser yn ystod y Cyfarfod Llawn hwn i gael dadl frys ar y cyhoeddiad heddiw gan Corus. Hefyd, o dan Reol Sefydlog Rhif 6.16, cefais gais i ohirio dadl heddiw ar amrywiaeth penodiadau cyhoeddus o ystyried yr amgylchiadau hyn. Bydd yn ofynnol cael pleidlais ar ddau gynnig trefniadol i gael cynnal hynny. Yr wyf wedi cymeradwyo’r cais a galwaf ar y Trefnydd i gynnig y cynigion.
Andrew Davies The Minister for Assembly Business spoken in English p. 21
Andrew Davies Y Trefnydd siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 21
I propose that
Cynigiaf fod
Andrew Davies The Minister for Assembly Business (continued) spoken in English p. 22
Andrew Davies Y Trefnydd (parhad) siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 22
I also propose that
Cynigiaf hefyd fod
Andrew Davies The Minister for Assembly Business (continued) spoken in English p. 22
Andrew Davies Y Trefnydd (parhad) siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 22
I am grateful to you, Presiding Officer, and to the other party business managers for their consideration of this matter given its importance to Wales and its people. We have only within the last hour been given information by the company about the restructuring and job losses. We are therefore not able to observe the normal courtesies in terms of giving advance copies of the First Minister’s statement to Members. However, hard copies of Corus’s press statement will be given to Members as soon as possible. They are being photocopied at the moment.
Yr wyf yn ddiolchgar ichi, Lywydd, ac i reolwyr busnes y pleidiau eraill am ystyried y mater hwn oherwydd ei bwysigrwydd i Gymru a’i phobl. Dim ond o fewn yr awr ddiwethaf yr ydym wedi cael gwybodaeth gan y cwmni ar yr ailstrwythuro a’r diswyddo. Felly ni allwn ddilyn y cwrteisi arferol o ran rhoi copïau o ddatganiad Prif Weinidog Cymru i’r Aelodau ymlaen llaw. Fodd bynnag, rhoddir copïau caled o’r datganiad i’r wasg gan Corus i’r Aelodau cyn gynted â phosibl. Maent yn cael eu llungopïo ar hyn o bryd.
I am grateful to the Minister for Assembly Business for moving those procedural motions. In addition to the debate on the diversity of public appointments being postponed, I am willing for the Plaid Cymru debate tabled for today to be postponed and have made that offer to the Minister for Assembly Business and the administration. We have already received indications from six of our Members that they would like to speak in an urgent debate on Corus. I am sure that substantial numbers of Labour AMs would also like to speak, as well as Conservative and Liberal Democrat Members. We welcome the administration’s proposal to hold an urgent debate, but our offer will enable all Members to participate in this debate.
Yr wyf yn ddiolchgar i’r Trefnydd am gynnig y cynigion trefniadol hyn. Yn ogystal â gohirio’r ddadl ar amrywiaeth cyhoeddus, yr wyf yn fodlon i ddadl Plaid Cymru a drefnwyd ar gyfer heddiw gael ei gohirio a gwneuthum y cynnig hwnnw i’r Trefnydd a’r weinyddiaeth. Mae chwech o’n Haelodau eisoes wedi dweud y byddent yn hoffi siarad mewn dadl frys ar Corus. Yr wyf yn siŵr yr hoffai nifer sylweddol o’r ACau Llafur siarad hefyd, yn ogystal â’r Aelodau Ceidwadol a’r Democratiaid Rhyddfrydol. Croesawn gynnig y weinyddiaeth i gynnal dadl frys, ond bydd ein cynnig ni yn galluogi i’r holl Aelodau gymryd rhan yn y ddadl hon.
I again invite the administration to accept our offer, which would allow at least a two-hour debate and enable all Members who wish to speak to do so. Corus’s decision impacts on all communities in Wales, not just one community. I urge the Minister for Assembly Business to accept our offer in the spirit in which it is made, to enable all Members to participate. If that offer is refused by the Minister for Assembly Business, I invite you, Presiding Officer, to consider that I also propose a procedural motion to postpone my party’s debate under Standing Order Nos. 6.9 and 6.16. We should vote on that also.
Unwaith eto estynnaf wahoddiad i’r weinyddiaeth dderbyn ein cynnig, a fyddai’n caniatáu dadl o ddwy awr o leiaf ac yn galluogi’r holl Aelodau sydd yn dymuno siarad i wneud hynny. Mae penderfyniad Corus yn effeithio ar holl gymunedau Cymru, nid un gymuned yn unig. Anogaf i’r Trefnydd dderbyn ein cynnig yn yr ysbryd y’i gwnaed, i alluogi’r holl Aelodau i gymryd rhan. Os bydd y Trefnydd yn gwrthod y cynnig hwnnw, estynnaf wahoddiad i chi, Lywydd, ystyried yr hoffwn hefyd gynnig cynnig trefniadol i ohirio dadl fy mhlaid o dan Reolau Sefydlog Rhif 6.9 a 6.16. Dylem hefyd bleidleisio ar hynny.
Dafydd Elis-Thomas The Presiding Officer spoken in English p. 23
Dafydd Elis-Thomas Y Llywydd siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 23
We will therefore have three procedural motions. I must put these motions to the vote soon. I will therefore call the Leader of the Welsh Conservatives to speak and then the Minister for Assembly Business to reply.
Felly bydd gennym dri chynnig trefniadol. Rhaid pleidleisio ar y cynigion hyn cyn hir. Felly galwaf ar Arweinydd Ceidwadwyr Cymru i siarad ac yna ar y Trefnydd i ateb.
Further to the point raised by Ieuan Wyn Jones, it would be wholly appropriate for his offer to be taken up today. As Ieuan was not in the Chamber earlier, I had e-mailed Cynog Dafis to the effect that I thought that a postponement would be helpful. I welcome the offer. An hour’s debate on the most important jobs issue facing Wales for a long time is insufficient. I assume that most Members will wish to speak in the urgent debate and I cannot see any purpose being served by holding the other debate, important though it is. It would be overshadowed by the short debate that we would have on Corus.
Ymhellach i’r pwynt o drefn a godwyd gan Ieuan Wyn Jones, byddai’n hollol briodol derbyn y cynnig hwn heddiw. Gan nad oedd Ieuan yn y Siambr yn gynharach, yr oeddwn wedi anfon e-bost at Cynog Dafis yn nodi y byddai gohiriad o fudd yn fy marn i. Croesawaf y cynnig. Nid yw dadl am awr ar y cwestiwn pwysicaf o ran swyddi a wyneba Cymru ers amser maith yn ddigonol. Tybiaf y bydd y rhan fwyaf o’r Aelodau yn dymuno siarad yn y ddadl frys ac ni welaf fod unrhyw bwrpas cynnal y ddadl arall, er ei bod yn bwysig. Câi ei bwrw i’r cysgod gan y ddadl fer y byddem yn ei chael ar Corus.
I also understand, Presiding Officer, that you will, understandably, allow a statement or an urgent question on Dairy Crest. That will further cut into our time.
Deallaf hefyd, Lywydd, y byddwch, wrth reswm, yn caniatáu datganiad neu gwestiwn brys ar Dairy Crest. Bydd hynny’n mynd â’n hamser ymhellach.
Kirsty Williams a gododd—
Kirsty Williams rose—
Dafydd Elis-Thomas The Presiding Officer spoken in English p. 23
Dafydd Elis-Thomas Y Llywydd siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 23
Order. I call the Minister for Assembly Business to respond and then I will put the motions to a vote.
Trefn. Galwaf ar y Trefnydd i ymateb ac yna byddwn yn pleidleisio ar y cynigion.
I am grateful to Ieuan for his offer. However, as I explained to him before the session began this morning, I have given assurances that there will be a full debate on this matter on Tuesday. There will not be a statement from the Minister for Rural Affairs on Dairy Crest, but an urgent question. Therefore, it should not take up that much time. I have proposed that the debate on diversity in public appointments be postponed and I have also explained to colleagues that there is a provision for us to extend the session beyond 12.35 p.m. today. We have only received the figures from Corus within the last hour. We are still trying to work out the number of jobs lost directly, as well as the indirect job losses.
Yr wyf yn ddiolchgar i Ieuan am ei gynnig. Fodd bynnag, fel yr esboniais iddo cyn i’r sesiwn ddechrau y bore yma, rhoddais sicrwydd y bydd dadl lawn ar y mater hwn ddydd Mawrth. Ni cheir datganiad gan y Gweinidog dros Faterion Gwledig ar Dairy Crest, ond ceir cwestiwn brys. Felly, ni ddylai gymryd llawer o amser. Cynigiais y dylid gohirio’r ddadl ar amrywiaeth penodiadau cyhoeddus a hefyd esboniais i’m cyd-Aelodau bod darpariaeth inni ymestyn y Cyfarfod heibio i 12.35 p.m. heddiw. Dim ond o fewn yr awr ddiwethaf y cawsom y ffigurau gan Corus. Yr ydym yn dal i geisio cyfrifo nifer y swyddi a gollwyd yn uniongyrchol, yn ogystal â’r swyddi a gollwyd yn anuniongyrchol.
This is outrageous.
Mae hyn yn warthus.
Dafydd Elis-Thomas The Presiding Officer spoken in English p. 24
Dafydd Elis-Thomas Y Llywydd siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 24
Order.
Trefn.
We are trying to respond quickly to the information that we have had in the last hour. That is why we feel that it is important that we have a debate today. However, I have also made the commitment that there will be an extensive debate on Tuesday.
Yr ydym yn ceisio ymateb yn gyflym i’r wybodaeth a gawsom yn ystod yr awr ddiwethaf. Dyna pam ei bod yn bwysig ein bod yn cael dadl heddiw yn ein tyb ni. Fodd bynnag, hefyd gwneuthum yr ymrwymiad y ceir dadl helaeth ddydd Mawrth.
Peter Law a gododd—
Peter Law rose—
Dafydd Elis-Thomas The Presiding Officer spoken in English p. 24
Dafydd Elis-Thomas Y Llywydd siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 24
Order. I will now put the procedural motions in the name of the Minister for Assembly Business to a vote. I will also give the Leader of the Opposition an opportunity to move a procedural motion to postpone his business.
Trefn. Pleidleisiwn yn awr ar y cynigion trefniadol yn enw’r Trefnydd. Hefyd rhoddaf gyfle i Arweinydd yr Wrthblaid gynnig cynnig trefniadol i ohirio ei fusnes.
Point of order. I raise this on this procedural matter. We Labour Members have not had the opportunity to discuss the matter that has just been presented to us. There is huge anger and dismay in the communities that many of us represent at these brutal decisions by Corus. We ought to consider supporting the proposition that has been put forward by Plaid Cymru that we all have the opportunity to debate these matters today. I do not see how the public outside this Chamber could understand us refusing this opportunity to discuss this crucial issue thoroughly on the day when these announcements have been made. [ASSEMBLY MEMBERS: ‘Hear, hear.’]
Pwynt o drefn. Codaf hyn ar y mater trefniadol hwn. Nid ydym ni yr Aelodau Llafur wedi cael cyfle i drafod y mater sydd newydd ei gyflwyno inni. Ceir dicter a siom enfawr yn y cymunedau a gynrychiolir gan sawl un ohonom am y penderfyniadau creulon hyn gan Corus. Dylem ystyried cefnogi’r cynnig a gyflwynwyd gan Blaid Cymru sef bod pob un ohonom yn cael cyfle i drafod y materion hyn heddiw. Ni welaf sut y gallai’r cyhoedd y tu allan i’r Siambr hon ddeall pam ein bod yn gwrthod y cyfle hwn i drafod y mater holl bwysig hwn yn drylwyr ar y diwrnod y gwnaethpwyd y cyhoeddiadau hyn. [AELODAU’R CYNULLIAD: ‘Clywch, clywch.’]
Dafydd Elis-Thomas The Presiding Officer spoken in English p. 24
Dafydd Elis-Thomas Y Llywydd siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 24
Order. I will now put the procedural motion under Standing Order No. 6.9, for an urgent debate on the announcement made by Corus, to a vote. I will then put the procedural motion under Standing Order No. 6.16, on the postponement of today’s debate on the diversity of public appointments, to a vote. Then I will call a vote on the Leader of the Opposition’s proposal to postpone his party’s business, which he is entitled to move.
Trefn. Pleidleisiwn yn awr ar y cynnig trefniadol o dan Reol Sefydlog Rhif 6.9, ar gyfer dadl frys ar y cyhoeddiad gan Corus. Yna pleidleisiwn ar y cynnig trefniadol o dan Reol Sefydlog Rhif 6.16, ar ohirio dadl heddiw ar amrywiaeth penodiadau cyhoeddus. Yna galwaf bleidlais ar gynnig Arweinydd yr Wrthblaid i ohirio busnes ei blaid, y mae ganddo hawl i’w gynnig.
I am more than willing to accept Plaid Cymru’s offer. All I am saying is that we will have an extensive period to discuss this this morning, as well as another extensive period to discuss it on Tuesday.
Yr wyf yn fwy na pharod i dderbyn cynnig Plaid Cymru. Y cyfan yr wyf am ei ddweud yw y byddwn yn cael cyfnod helaeth i drafod hyn y bore yma, yn ogystal â chyfnod helaeth i’w drafod ddydd Mawrth.
Dafydd Elis-Thomas The Presiding Officer spoken in English p. 25
Dafydd Elis-Thomas Y Llywydd siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 25
There will be an opportunity for Members to vote in favour of the motion put forward by the Leader of the Opposition, once we have voted on the two other motions. I call on the Leader of the Opposition to formally propose his procedural motion.
Bydd cyfle i’r Aelodau bleidleisio o blaid y cynnig a gyflwynwyd gan Arweinydd yr Wrthblaid, unwaith y byddwn wedi pleidleisio ar y ddau gynnig arall. Galwaf ar Arweinydd yr Wrthblaid i gynnig ei gynnig trefniadol yn ffurfiol.
I propose that
Cynigiaf fod
Point of order. Given the gravity of this morning’s announcement, with communities bleeding to death outside, the people of Wales expect a change in our business to deal with this issue. It is vital. I ask the Minister to withdraw his objections and to support the Leader of the Opposition’s proposal. It is common sense.
Pwynt o drefn. O ystyried difrifwch cyhoeddiad y bore yma, â chymunedau’n gwaedu i farwolaeth y tu allan, mae pobl Cymru yn disgwyl inni newid ein busnes i ymdrin â’r mater hwn. Mae’n holl bwysig. Gofynnaf i’r Gweinidog dynnu ei wrthwynebiadau yn ôl a chefnogi cynnig Arweinydd yr Wrthblaid. Synnwyr cyffredin ydyw.
Dafydd Elis-Thomas The Presiding Officer spoken in English p. 25
Dafydd Elis-Thomas Y Llywydd siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 25
Order. We will now vote on the motion to enable us to hold an urgent debate.
Trefn. Pleidleisiwn yn awr ar y cynnig i’n galluogi i gynnal dadl frys.
Cynnig trefniadol Andrew Davies t. 25
Procedural motion Andrew Davies p. 25
DerbyniwydAdopted O blaidFor 45 YmatalAbstain 0 Yn erbynAgainst 0
Derbyniwyd y cynnig.
Motion adopted.
Sut y pleidleisiodd yr AelodauHow Members voted
O blaidFor (45)
- Lorraine Barrett
- Mick Bates
- Peter Black
- Nick Bourne
- Rosemary Butler
- Christine Chapman
- Cynog Dafis
- Jane Davidson
- Andrew Davies
- David Davies
- Geraint Davies
- Glyn Davies
- Janet Davies
- Ron Davies
- Sue Essex
- Delyth Evans
- Val Feld
- Brian Gibbons
- William Graham
- Janice Gregory
- John Griffiths
- Christine Gwyther
- Alison Halford
- Brian Hancock
- Jane Hutt
- Pauline Jarman
- Carwyn Jones
- Ieuan Wyn Jones
- Peter Law
- Huw Lewis
- David Lloyd
- David Melding
- Jonathan Morgan
- Rhodri Morgan
- Alun Pugh
- Jenny Randerson
- Peter Rogers
- Janet Ryder
- Karen Sinclair
- Gwenda Thomas
- Owen John Thomas
- Rhodri Glyn Thomas
- Dafydd Wigley
- Kirsty Williams
- Phil Williams
Dafydd Elis-Thomas Y Llywydd siaradwyd yn Gymraeg t. 26
Dafydd Elis-Thomas The Presiding Officer spoken in Welsh p. 26
Pleidleisiwn yn awr ar y cynnig i ohirio’r ddadl ar benodiadau cyhoeddus.
We will now vote on the motion to postpone the debate on public appointments.
Cynnig trefniadol Andrew Davies t. 26
Procedural motion Andrew Davies p. 26
DerbyniwydAdopted O blaidFor 45 YmatalAbstain 0 Yn erbynAgainst 0
Derbyniwyd y cynnig.
Motion adopted.
Sut y pleidleisiodd yr AelodauHow Members voted
O blaidFor (45)
- Lorraine Barrett
- Mick Bates
- Peter Black
- Nick Bourne
- Rosemary Butler
- Christine Chapman
- Cynog Dafis
- Jane Davidson
- Andrew Davies
- David Davies
- Geraint Davies
- Glyn Davies
- Janet Davies
- Ron Davies
- Sue Essex
- Delyth Evans
- Val Feld
- Brian Gibbons
- William Graham
- Janice Gregory
- John Griffiths
- Christine Gwyther
- Alison Halford
- Brian Hancock
- Jane Hutt
- Pauline Jarman
- Carwyn Jones
- Ieuan Wyn Jones
- Peter Law
- Huw Lewis
- David Lloyd
- David Melding
- Jonathan Morgan
- Rhodri Morgan
- Alun Pugh
- Jenny Randerson
- Peter Rogers
- Janet Ryder
- Karen Sinclair
- Gwenda Thomas
- Owen John Thomas
- Rhodri Glyn Thomas
- Dafydd Wigley
- Kirsty Williams
- Phil Williams
Dafydd Elis-Thomas Y Llywydd siaradwyd yn Gymraeg t. 27
Dafydd Elis-Thomas The Presiding Officer spoken in Welsh p. 27
Pleidleisiwn yn awr ar gynnig Arweinydd yr Wrthblaid i ohirio’r ddadl plaid leiafrifol.
We will now vote on the Leader of the Opposition’s motion to postpone the minority party debate.
Cynnig trefniadol Ieuan Wyn Jones t. 27
Procedural motion Ieuan Wyn Jones p. 27
DerbyniwydAdopted O blaidFor 45 YmatalAbstain 0 Yn erbynAgainst 0
Derbyniwyd y cynnig.
Motion adopted.
Sut y pleidleisiodd yr AelodauHow Members voted
O blaidFor (45)
- Lorraine Barrett
- Mick Bates
- Peter Black
- Nick Bourne
- Rosemary Butler
- Christine Chapman
- Cynog Dafis
- Jane Davidson
- Andrew Davies
- David Davies
- Geraint Davies
- Glyn Davies
- Janet Davies
- Ron Davies
- Sue Essex
- Delyth Evans
- Val Feld
- Brian Gibbons
- William Graham
- Janice Gregory
- John Griffiths
- Christine Gwyther
- Alison Halford
- Brian Hancock
- Jane Hutt
- Pauline Jarman
- Carwyn Jones
- Ieuan Wyn Jones
- Peter Law
- Huw Lewis
- David Lloyd
- David Melding
- Jonathan Morgan
- Rhodri Morgan
- Alun Pugh
- Jenny Randerson
- Peter Rogers
- Janet Ryder
- Karen Sinclair
- Gwenda Thomas
- Owen John Thomas
- Rhodri Glyn Thomas
- Dafydd Wigley
- Kirsty Williams
- Phil Williams
Pwynt o Drefn
Point of Order
Point of order. I propose that my short debate should also be postponed.
Pwynt o drefn. Cynigiaf hefyd y dylid gohirio fy nadl fer.
Dafydd Elis-Thomas The Presiding Officer spoken in English p. 28
Dafydd Elis-Thomas Y Llywydd siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 28
A short debate cannot be postponed. If it is not held today, it will be lost. However, you are entitled to surrender your short debate if you so wish. If you indicate that you are withdrawing your short debate and your business managers agree to that, it will happen.
Ni ellir gohirio dadl fer. Os na chaiff ei chynnal heddiw, fe’i collir. Fodd bynnag, mae gennych hawl i ildio eich dadl fer os dymunwch wneud hynny. Os byddwch yn nodi eich bod yn tynnu eich dadl fer yn ôl a bod eich rheolwyr busnes yn cytuno â hynny, bydd yn digwydd.
Dadl Frys
Urgent Debate
Corus
Rhodri Morgan The First Minister spoken in English p. 28
Rhodri Morgan Prif Weinidog Cymru siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 28
This is a sad day for Wales. It is sad for me to have to make a statement to the Assembly about the massive cutbacks, closures and job losses in Wales arising from Corus’s announcement this morning, of which I will now give the details. Many of you will by now have received the details of the Corus statement given to the stock exchange at 9 a.m. today, which was given to me slightly earlier in a lengthy phone call from Nick Cragg, the head of the strip mills division. The discussions carried on until 9.05 a.m., and that is why I was unable to observe the usual courtesy of giving the other party leaders notice of the content of my statement.
Dyma ddiwrnod trist i Gymru. Mae’n drist imi orfod gwneud datganiad i’r Cynulliad am y ffaith y bydd toriadau enfawr, y bydd gweithfeydd yn cau ac y collir llawer o swyddi yng Nghymru yn sgîl cyhoeddiad Corus y bore yma, y rhoddaf y manylion yn awr. Erbyn hyn, bydd llawer ohonoch wedi cael y manylion am ddatganiad Corus a roddwyd i’r gyfnewidfa stoc am 9 a.m. heddiw, a roddwyd imi ychydig yn gynharach mewn galwad ffôn hir gan Nick Cragg, pennaeth yr is-adran melinau stribed. Parhaodd y trafodaethau tan 9.05 a.m., a dyna pam na allwn roi rhybudd i arweinwyr y pleidiau eraill am gynnwys fy natganiad, yn ôl yr arfer.
First, I will run through the details of the outright site closures in Wales. There are two of those. There is a large site closure at Ebbw Vale, with the outright closure of the tinplate facility. The second site closure at Bryngwyn is considerably smaller. That is the colour coat plant, where, as I recall, colour coat was invented some 20 to 30 years ago.
Yn gyntaf, nodaf fanylion y gweithfeydd sydd yn cau’n gyfan gwbl yng Nghymru. Mae dau ohonynt. Mae safle mawr yn cael ei gau yng Nglynebwy, lle y caiff y gwaith tunplat ei gau’n gyfan gwbl. Mae’r ail safle sydd yn cau, sef safle Bryngwyn, yn llai o dipyn. Dyna’r gwaith caen liw, lle, fel y cofiaf, y dyfeisiwyd caen liw tua 20 i 30 mlynedd yn ôl.
Many of the biggest cutbacks will come at Llanwern, with the closure of iron and steelmaking operations, leaving the hot mill, cold mill and galvanising lines, but with job losses also in the finishing lines through deshifting and reduced production of approximately a third. Overall job losses of direct employees at Llanwern will be between 1,400 and 1,500. On top of that, at Llanwern, there are outsourced, on-site contract employees who work for Corus, but do not receive their wages from it. Corus could not give exact numbers, but approximate losses among those employees will be about 600. Therefore, we are talking of just over 2,000 job losses at Llanwern.
Daw llawer o’r diswyddiadau mwyaf yn Llanwern, lle y caiff y gweithrediadau haearn a dur eu cau, gan adael y felin boeth, y felin oer a’r llinellau galfaneiddio, ond gyda cholledion swyddi hefyd yn y llinellau terfynu drwy newid patrymau gwaith a thrwy leihau cynhyrchiant tua thraean. Bydd rhwng 1,400 a 1,500 o weithwyr uniongyrchol yn colli eu swyddi yn Llanwern. Yn ychwanegol i hynny, yn Llanwern, mae gweithwyr allanol ar gontract ar y safle sydd yn gweithio i Corus, ond na dderbyniant eu cyflogau ganddo. Ni allai Corus roi’r union ffigurau, ond bydd tua 600 o’r gweithwyr hynny yn colli eu swyddi. Felly, soniwn am ychydig dros 2,000 o bobl yn colli eu swyddi yn Llanwern.
Shotton will lose some of its finishing facilities and the cold mill, which will involve direct job losses of 320. There may be some other job losses of a minor order among contractors there also. The Orb works in Newport will suffer minor job losses of some 30 people.
Bydd Shotton yn colli rhan o’i gyfleusterau terfynu a’r felin oer, a olyga 320 o ddiswyddiadau uniongyrchol. Efallai y bydd diswyddiadau eraill ar raddfa fach ymysg y contractwyr yno hefyd. Bydd tua 30 o bobl yn colli eu swyddi yng ngweithfeydd Orb yng Nghasnewydd.
I believe that that is the total number of job losses in Wales. There may be some further job losses in Port Talbot at the management level, totalling about 100. However, job losses are continuing in Port Talbot given that, of the job losses announced last July, only a third have taken place so far. We are not aware of any changes at Trostre, the tinplate works in Llanelli.
Credaf mai dyna gyfanswm y diswyddiadau yng Nghymru. Efallai y bydd mwy o ddiswyddiadau ym Mhort Talbot ar y lefel reoli, sef cyfanswm o tua 100. Fodd bynnag, mae’r diswyddiadau’n parhau ym Mhort Talbot gan mai dim ond traean o’r diswyddiadau a gyhoeddwyd fis Gorffennaf diwethaf sydd wedi’u gweithredu hyd yma. Nid ydym yn ymwybodol o unrhyw newidiadau yn Nhrostre, sef y gweithfeydd tunplat yn Llanelli.
This is one of the saddest days that the Assembly has so far experienced in its short life. My view is that Corus’s management, ever since the merger, has made a complete mess of the steel industry and has let down steelworkers and steel communities in Wales. That is why I asked it to reconsider its devastating decision this morning.
Dyma un o’r diwrnodau tristaf a brofwyd gan y Cynulliad yn ystod ei fywyd byr. Yn fy marn i, ers i’r cwmni uno, mae rheolwyr Corus wedi gwneud llanastr llwyr o’r diwydiant dur ac mae wedi siomi gweithwyr dur a chymunedau dur yng Nghymru. Dyna pam y gofynnais iddo ailystyried ei benderfyniad torcalonnus y bore yma.
It has squandered shareholders’ funds in such a way that it was unable to cope with the cyclical nature of the steel industry when currency and market factors went against the company during what has undoubtedly been a difficult year. There have been major job losses during the past year in carbon steel production, especially in strip mill production, which is heavily concentrated in Wales. I do not deny that those job losses have taken place. However, if you do not understand that the steel industry is a highly cyclical industry, because of market, currency and other factors, and that you need to keep your shareholders’ funds available to cover the rainy day that comes along once every four or five years, then you do not understand and should not be in the steel industry. That is what Corus’s management has done over the past 18 months. It has squandered shareholders funds so it was unable to withstand the rainy day.
Gwastraffodd arian y cyfranddalwyr yn y fath fodd fel na allai ymdopi â natur gylchol y diwydiant dur pan aeth ffactorau arian cyfredol a’r farchnad yn erbyn y cwmni yn ystod yr hyn a fu’n flwyddyn anodd yn ddiamau. Bu llawer o ddiswyddiadau yn ystod y flwyddyn ddiwethaf ym maes cynhyrchu dur carbon, yn enwedig o ran cynhyrchu melin stribed, sydd wedi’i ganolbwyntio’n helaeth yng Nghymru. Ni wadaf y ffaith bod y diswyddiadau hynny wedi digwydd. Fodd bynnag, oni ddeallwch fod y diwydiant dur yn ddiwydiant cylchol iawn, oherwydd ffactorau arian cyfredol a’r farchnad ymysg eraill, ac oni ddeallwch fod angen cadw arian eich cyfranddalwyr fel ei fod ar gael ar gyfer cyfnod anodd sydd yn digwydd unwaith bob pedair neu bum mlynedd, ni ddeallwch y diwydiant dur ac ni ddylech fod yn rhan ohono. Dyna’r hyn a wnaeth rheolwyr Corus dros y 18 mis diwethaf. Gwastraffodd arian y cyfranddalwyr ac felly ni allai wrthsefyll y cyfnod anodd.
In comparison, the management of Nissan and Toyota have shown far more faith in the future of the British economy. Corus has shown no faith whatsoever. It has run up the white flag at the sign of trouble, which it has undoubtedly had, but which the steel industry has experienced throughout the 250-year history of the iron and steel industry. Every four or five years you have a bad year. You live through it and shareholders’ funds enable you to do so. You do not donate shareholders’ funds back to them when you are trying to invest in the industry. You need those funds to survive the difficult years.
Mewn cymhariaeth, dangosodd rheolwyr Nissan a Toyota lawer mwy o ffydd yn nyfodol yr economi Brydeinig. Ni ddangosodd Corus unrhyw ffydd ynddi o gwbl. Cododd y faner wen pan welodd broblemau, a gafodd yn ddiamau, ond a brofwyd gan y diwydiant dur drwy gydol y 250 mlynedd o hanes y diwydiant haearn a dur. Cewch flwyddyn anodd bob pedair neu bum mlynedd. Yr ydych yn byw drwyddi a galluoga arian y cyfranddalwyr ichi wneud hynny. Ni roddwch arian y cyfranddalwyr yn ôl iddynt pan ydych yn ceisio buddsoddi yn y diwydiant. Mae angen yr arian hwnnw arnoch er mwyn goroesi’r blynyddoedd anodd.
Since the merger, Corus has had a far more difficult time than it indicated was in prospect during the merger. It is sad that people who were in charge of the steel industry, such as John Bryant and his Dutch opposite number, who left their jobs on 5 December, took me to task for the fears that I expressed at the time of the merger, over 18 months ago. In my early days as Secretary for Economic Development, I expressed strong concerns about the danger that the merger posed to our Welsh steel plants. John Bryant was not happy about that. He tried his best, but he is also now a casualty of the merger, as are all those who are affected by the job losses announced today. I truly wish that John Bryant had been right and that I had been wrong.
Ers i’r cwmni uno, cafodd Corus amser llawer anoddach nag y nododd oedd yn yr arfaeth yn ystod yr uno. Mae’n drist y dywedwyd y drefn wrthyf gan bobl oedd yn gyfrifol am y diwydiant dur, megis John Bryant a’r person a oedd yn cyfateb iddo yn yr Iseldiroedd, a adawodd eu swyddi ar 5 Rhagfyr, oherwydd yr ofnau a fynegais pan unodd y cwmni, dros 18 mis yn ôl. Yn fy nyddiau cynnar fel yr Ysgrifennydd Datblygu Economaidd, mynegais bryderon cryf am y perygl a achosai’r uno i’n gweithfeydd dur yng Nghymru. Nid oedd John Bryant yn hapus am hynny. Gwnaeth ei orau, ond mae hefyd wedi dioddef erbyn hyn oherwydd yr uno, fel pawb yr effeithiwyd arnynt gan y diswyddiadau a gyhoeddwyd heddiw. Byddai’n dda gennyf pe bai John Bryant wedi bod yn gywir a phe bawn innau wedi bod yn anghywir.
Some people will say that this has happened because of the strength of sterling and the weakness of the euro, but that is the nature of the steel industry. It is a highly cyclical industry. The Dutch plant makes more profit because the euro is weak. That was intended partially to offset any additional losses made in the British half because of the strong pound. However, because Corus squandered shareholders’ funds by repaying them £700 million at the time of the merger, it did not have a cushion. That is the reason for today’s announcement. It has nothing to do with Welsh steelworkers’ performance. They have raised productivity phenomenally throughout the steel industry, at the finishing and the iron and steel ends.
Bydd pobl yn dweud i hyn ddigwydd oherwydd cryfder y bunt a gwendid yr ewro, ond dyna natur y diwydiant dur. Mae’n ddiwydiant cylchol iawn. Gwna’r gwaith yn yr Iseldiroedd fwy o elw oherwydd bod yr ewro yn wan. Bwriadwyd i hynny wrthbwyso yn rhannol unrhyw golledion ychwanegol a wnaethpwyd yn yr hanner Prydeinig oherwydd y bunt gryf. Fodd bynnag, oherwydd i Corus wastraffu arian y cyfranddalwyr drwy ad-dalu £700 miliwn iddynt pan unodd y cwmni, nid oedd ganddo ffordd o leddfu’r argyfwng. Dyna’r rheswm dros y cyhoeddiad heddiw. Nid oes ag ef wnelo dim â pherfformiad gweithwyr dur Cymru. Codasant gynhyrchiant yn aruthrol ledled y diwydiant dur, ar yr ochr derfynu a’r ochr haearn a dur.
This is a sad day because it involves devastating blows to Ebbw Vale. That area has a proud history of iron and steel-making, which lost its heavy end in three stages during the 1970s. Now it is to lose its finishing end in the complete site closure of its entire tinplate works. Llanwern was built following a brave decision by the publicly-owned Richard Thomas and Baldwin Steel Company in 1958. It was the only publicly-owned steelworks at the time. It was the first major works to use the basic oxygen steel-making technology and virtually the first major user of the computer in modern industry. Now it is to lose its iron and steel-making plant. This is a sad day, although the finishing mills will stay, but producing much less strip than previously.
Mae heddiw’n ddiwrnod trist gan fod Glynebwy yn cael ei fwrw’n wael iawn. Mae hanes balch gan yr ardal honno o wneud dur a haearn, a gollodd ei ochr drwm mewn tri cham yn ystod y 1970au. Yn awr, bwriedir cau ei ochr derfynu pan gaiff ei weithfeydd tunplat cyfan eu cau. Adeiladwyd Llanwern yn sgîl penderfyniad dewr yn 1958 gan Richard Thomas and Baldwin Steel Company a oedd yn eiddo cyhoeddus. Hwnnw oedd yr unig weithfeydd dur a oedd yn eiddo cyhoeddus ar y pryd. Efe oedd y gweithfeydd mawr cyntaf i ddefnyddio’r dechnoleg gwneud dur ocsigen sylfaenol ac efe oedd y cwmni cyntaf bron i ddefnyddio cyfrifiaduron yn y byd diwydiannol modern. Yn awr, bydd yn colli ei waith haearn a dur. Mae heddiw’n ddiwrnod trist, er y bydd y melinau terfynu yn aros, byddant yn cynhyrchu llawer llai nag o’r blaen.
We have done our best to engage with Corus. We took a lead in putting a package together to try to assist it and dissuade it from doing what we feared it would do after the announcement made following the resignations of John Bryant and his Dutch opposite number, Fokko van Duyne, on 5 December. The company has refused to engage with us and with the UK Government. It did not want to know. Corus made this decision on its own, being unwilling to talk. It is not only us who have had the brush-off from them, despite the offers that we have made; the UK Government and the steel unions have also had the brush-off. The Iron and Steel Trades Confederation attempted to put together a package for a takeover of Llanwern by the workforce and the trade union, backed by senior figures from the steel industry and the financial sector. That was also given the brush-off, without any serious engagement. We are talking about shrinkage, run down, job losses, cutbacks in capacity, which are absolutely appalling. I cannot find a single redeeming feature in Corus’s announcement today.
Gwnaethom ein gorau i drafod â Corus. Achubasom y blaen drwy lunio pecyn i geisio ei gynorthwyo a’i ddarbwyllo i beidio â gwneud yr hyn yr ofnem y byddai’n ei wneud ar ôl y cyhoeddiad a wnaethpwyd yn sgîl ymddiswyddiadau John Bryant a’r person a oedd yn cyfateb iddo yn yr Iseldiroedd, Fokko van Duyne, ar 5 Rhagfyr. Gwrthododd y cwmni siarad â ni ac â Llywodraeth y DU. Nid oedd ganddo ddiddordeb. Gwnaeth Corus y penderfyniad hwn ar ei ben ei hun, ac yntau’n anfodlon siarad. Nid ni yn unig a anwybyddwyd ganddo, er gwaethaf y cynigion a wnaethom; anwybyddwyd Llywodraeth y DU a’r undebau dur ganddo hefyd. Ceisiodd Cydffederasiwn y Crefftau Haearn a Dur lunio pecyn lle y byddai’r gweithlu a’r undeb llafur yn meddiannu Llanwern, gyda chefnogaeth pobl bwysig yn y diwydiant dur a’r sector ariannol. Anwybyddwyd hynny hefyd, heb unrhyw drafodaeth o ddifrif. Siaradwn am leihau, gwanhau, colli swyddi, torri cynhwysedd, sydd oll yn ofnadwy. Ni allaf ddod i hyd i’r un rhinwedd yng nghyhoeddiad Corus heddiw.
Ieuan Wyn Jones siaradwyd yn Gymraeg ac yn Saesneg t. 32
Ieuan Wyn Jones spoken in Welsh and English p. 32
Y mae’n gwbl briodol fod y Cynulliad yn treulio gweddill y Cyfarfod Llawn yn trafod un o’r datganiadau duaf a glywsom. Yr wyf yn cytuno â’r hyn a ddywedodd Rhodri: dyma’r diwrnod duaf yn ein hanes fel Aelodau o’r Cynulliad wrth i’r colledion mawr hyn daro cymunedau ledled Cymru yn ddidrugaredd.
in Welsh It is entirely appropriate that the Assembly devotes the rest of today’s Plenary meeting to discussing one of the bleakest statements that we have heard. I agree with what Rhodri said: this is the blackest day in our history as Assembly Members as these massive job losses strike mercilessly at the heart of communities throughout Wales.
This is a very sad and bad day for Wales, and especially for steelworkers in Wales. Corus has said for some time that there were plans to restructure the steel industry in Wales. I think that everyone knew, in their heart of hearts, what that restructuring meant. Namely, that there would be massive job losses in Wales. It is remarkable that Corus, knowing of these losses for weeks, if not months, failed to tell its workforce about the plans for it and their communities. It is a devastating indictment of a company that failed to tell its workforce, the people who have managed its operations, what was likely to happen.
yn Saesneg Dyma ddiwrnod trist iawn a du iawn i Gymru, yn enwedig i weithwyr dur yng Nghymru. Dywedodd Corus ers peth amser bod cynlluniau ar y gweill i ailstrwythuro’r diwydiant dur yng Nghymru. Credaf fod pawb yn gwybod, yng ngwaelod eu calonnau, yr hyn a olygai’r ailstrwythuro hwnnw. Hynny yw, y byddai diswyddiadau sylweddol yng Nghymru. Mae’n rhyfeddod y methodd Corus, er ei fod yn gwybod am y diswyddiadau hyn ers wythnosau, â rhoi gwybod i’w weithlu am y cynlluniau ar ei gyfer a’i gymunedau. Mae’n gondemniad llwyr ar gwmni iddo fethu â dweud wrth ei weithlu, sef y bobl a reolodd ei weithrediadau, am yr hyn a oedd yn debygol o ddigwydd.
Our immediate reaction is one of horror at the scale of these job losses: the closure at Ebbw Vale, the massive reduction at Llanwern and the massive job losses at Shotton. We must make it clear, and I agree with Rhodri wholeheartedly on this, that Corus’s attitude as an employer has been appalling. It refused to engage with the workforce, the UK Government, the Assembly, Members of Parliament, AMs and local authorities. The impact of these job losses on the communities affected will be devastating. Any major employer has a responsibility, indeed, a duty, to respond to the impact of job losses on this scale on communities in Wales and England. Corus has failed to do so. It has acted with arrogance and high-handedness, and with no regard for the impact of these job losses on communities in Wales.
yn Saesneg Ein hymateb cyntaf yw arswyd oherwydd y nifer o swyddi a gollir: cau gwaith Glynebwy, lleihau gwaith Llanwern yn sylweddol a’r diswyddiadau enfawr yn Shotton. Rhaid inni ei wneud yn glir, a chytunaf yn llwyr â Rhodri ynglŷn â hyn, y bu agwedd Corus fel cyflogwr yn warthus. Gwrthododd drafod â’r gweithlu, Llywodraeth y DU, y Cynulliad, Aelodau Seneddol, ACau ac awdurdodau lleol. Bydd effaith y diswyddiadau hyn ar y cymunedau yr effeithir arnynt yn dorcalonnus. Mae gan unrhyw gyflogwr mawr gyfrifoldeb, yn wir, ddyletswydd, i ymateb i effaith diswyddiadau ar y raddfa hon ar gymunedau yng Nghymru a Lloegr. Methodd Corus â gwneud hynny. Gweithredodd mewn ffordd drahaus, a heb ystyried effaith y diswyddiadau hyn ar gymunedau yng Nghymru o gwbl.
Clearly, our immediate thoughts are with the workforce. We are all aware of the impact on the communities at Llanwern, Ebbw Vale and Shotton. They are highly productive plants, with an excellent workforce, which will be devastated by this announcement. We want to see the response of the UK Government and the Assembly administration as soon as possible. We understand that it would be impossible for them to respond today. However, I hope that we will have more details by Tuesday. All of these communities will need special help. The Llanwern community, Newport and the surrounding areas will all be affected. Ebbw Vale already has one of the highest levels of unemployment in Wales and suffers considerable social deprivation. We will wait with interest to see the administration’s plans for ameliorating the impact of these job losses on the Ebbw Vale community. At Shotton, we are losing quality jobs that will be hard to replace. This is a kick in the teeth for Wales. Corus must take a considerable share of the blame for this announcement and its impact on communities. It has not acted as a responsible employer.
yn Saesneg Yn amlwg, meddyliwn ar unwaith am y gweithlu. Mae pob un ohonom yn ymwybodol o’r effaith a geir ar y cymunedau yn Llanwern, Glynebwy a Shotton. Maent yn weithfeydd â chynhyrchiant uchel, gyda gweithlu ardderchog, a fydd yn dorcalonnus yn sgîl y cyhoeddiad hwn. Yr ydym am weld ymateb Llywodraeth y DU a gweinyddiaeth y Cynulliad cyn gynted â phosibl. Deallwn y byddai’n amhosibl iddynt ymateb heddiw. Fodd bynnag, gobeithiaf y bydd gennym fwy o fanylion erbyn dydd Mawrth. Bydd angen cymorth arbennig ar bob un o’r cymunedau hyn. Caiff cymuned Llanwern, Casnewydd a’r cyffiniau eu heffeithio. Mae gan Lynebwy un o’r lefelau diweithdra uchaf yng Nghymru eisoes ac mae’n dioddef cryn amddifadedd cymdeithasol. Arhoswn yn eiddgar i weld cynlluniau’r weinyddiaeth i leddfu effaith y diswyddiadau hyn ar gymuned Glynebwy. Yn Shotton, collwn swyddi o ansawdd da y bydd yn anodd cael rhai newydd yn eu lle. Mae hyn yn sarhad i Gymru. Rhaid i Corus dderbyn rhan sylweddol o’r bai am y cyhoeddiad hwn a’i effaith ar gymunedau. Ni weithredodd fel cyflogwr cyfrifol.
However, 3,000 job losses is not the end of the story. The knock-on effect will lead to the same amount of jobs being affected. As time passes, we will ask the administration to keep us updated on where job losses in other sectors might happen, depending on manufacturing industry management. While we accept that the UK Government, the Assembly administration, local authority leaders and others have worked desperately hard in recent weeks to engage Corus in talks, I am afraid that they cannot escape some responsibility. A recent Assembly debate highlighted the fact that there has been considerable speculation for some time that these job losses were about to hit us. Jobs have been lost at Sony, Panasonic, Gossard, Valeo and the Dairy Crest plants in Marshfield and Carmarthen, which were announced yesterday. However, the scale of these losses today is in a different league to what we have heard before. All these jobs are in a manufacturing sector in Wales that has been devastated in recent years.
yn Saesneg Fodd bynnag, nid y 3,000 o ddiswyddiadau yw diwedd y gân. Arweinia’r effaith ddilynol at yr un nifer o swyddi yn cael eu heffeithio. Wrth i amser fynd heibio, gofynnwn i’r weinyddiaeth roi’r wybodaeth ddiweddaraf inni ynglŷn â lle y gallai diswyddiadau mewn sectorau eraill ddigwydd, yn dibynnu ar reolwyr y diwydiant gweithgynhyrchu. Er ein bod yn derbyn y gweithiodd Llywodraeth y DU, gweinyddiaeth y Cynulliad, arweinwyr awdurdodau lleol ac eraill yn ofnadwy o galed yn ystod yr wythnosau diwethaf i geisio cynnal trafodaethau â Corus, mae arnaf ofn nad allant ddianc rhag rhywfaint o gyfrifoldeb. Nododd dadl ddiweddar yn y Cynulliad y ffaith y bu cryn ddamcaniaethu ers peth amser bod y diswyddiadau hyn ar fin digwydd. Collwyd swyddi yn Sony, Panasonic, Gossard, Valeo a’r gweithfeydd Dairy Crest ym Maerun a Chaerfyrddin, a gyhoeddwyd ddoe. Fodd bynnag, mae graddfa’r colledion hyn heddiw mewn dosbarth gwahanol i’r hyn a glywsom o’r blaen. Mae’r swyddi hyn i gyd o fewn sector gweithgynhyrchu yng Nghymru sydd wedi’i ddinistrio yn ystod y blynyddoedd diwethaf.
We have to contend with the high value of the pound and problems caused by currency fluctuation. Plaid Cymru—The Party of Wales called for a change in UK Government economic and fiscal policy, and in the guidelines to the Monetary Policy Committee, to take the impact on employment into account. Wales is more dependent on manufacturing than many other parts of the UK, and the UK Government’s current economic policy has not been of considerable help. We have called for a much stronger regional policy. We understand that Gordon Brown may make an announcement on regional policy in the next few days. Frankly, it would have been helpful had Gordon Brown made that announcement around a year ago because he has £16 billion in budget surpluses.
yn Saesneg Rhaid inni ymgodymu â gwerth uchel y bunt a’r problemau a achoswyd gan amrywiadau o ran arian cyfredol. Galwodd Plaid Cymru—The Party of Wales am newid ym mholisi economaidd ac ariannol Llywodraeth y DU, ac yn y canllawiau i’r Pwyllgor Polisi Ariannol, er mwyn ystyried yr effaith ar gyflogaeth. Dibynna Cymru yn fwy ar weithgynhyrchu na llawer o rannau eraill o’r DU, ac ni fu polisi economaidd presennol Llywodraeth y DU o gymorth mawr. Yr ydym wedi galw am bolisi rhanbarthol llawer cryfach. Deallwn y gallai Gordon Brown wneud cyhoeddiad ar bolisïau rhanbarthol yn yr ychydig ddyddiau nesaf. A dweud y gwir, byddai wedi bod o gymorth pe byddai Gordon Brown wedi gwneud y cyhoeddiad hwnnw tua blwyddyn yn ôl gan fod ganddo £16 biliwn o wargedau cyllideb.
We must now look forward. It is a sad day for the communities where these job losses will have the greatest impact. I hope that, over the next few days and weeks, Rhodri Morgan and Mike German and other members of the administration will be able to help us answer the following questions, because this matter will hit most of the Cabinet members. In some way or another, it will affect everybody. What plans are in place to ensure that these communities will be supported financially and otherwise to come to terms with these job losses? What kind of sums will be made available to attract new industries into these areas? What assistance will be given to those whose jobs have been lost? It is a sad day for Wales and it is right that the Assembly places on record the fact that we will stand side by side with those communities as they come to terms with this sad news.
yn Saesneg Rhaid inni edrych at y dyfodol yn awr. Mae’n ddiwrnod trist i’r cymunedau lle y caiff y diswyddiadau hyn yr effaith fwyaf. Gobeithiaf, yn ystod y dyddiau a’r wythnosau nesaf, y gall Rhodri Morgan a Mike German ac aelodau eraill o’r weinyddiaeth ein helpu i ateb y cwestiynau canlynol, oherwydd bydd y mater hwn yn bwrw’r rhan fwyaf o aelodau’r Cabinet. Mewn rhyw ffordd neu’i gilydd, bydd yn effeithio ar bawb. Pa gynlluniau sydd ar waith i sicrhau y caiff y cymunedau hyn gymorth ariannol a chymorth arall er mwyn gallu dygymod â’r diswyddiadau hyn? Faint o arian fydd ar gael i ddenu diwydiannau newydd i’r ardaloedd hyn? Pa gymorth a roddir i’r rheini sydd wedi colli eu swyddi? Mae’n ddiwrnod trist i Gymru ac mae’n briodol bod y Cynulliad yn cofnodi’r ffaith y safwn ochr yn ochr â’r cymunedau hynny wrth iddynt ddygymod â’r newydd trist hwn.
I have come from Llanwern this morning, and the mood there is sombre. People who work there are angry about how Corus has conducted itself recently. They think that this is no way for a major employer to go about its business when it should have a responsibility to its workforce and the local community. It has failed to recognise that responsibility. People are angry and that is understandable. I am sure that Peter Law will speak on behalf of Ebbw Vale and our thoughts are with all the communities in Wales that are affected by these announcements, and not only those in our own constituencies, because we all realise that we have an all-Wales responsibility.
Deuthum o Lanwern y bore yma, ac mae awyrgylch brudd iawn yno. Mae’r bobl sydd yn gweithio yn ddig oherwydd y ffordd y mae Corus wedi ymddwyn yn ddiweddar. Credant nad yw hyn yn ffordd briodol i gyflogwr mawr ymddwyn pan ddylai fod â chyfrifoldeb i’w weithlu ac i’r gymuned leol. Methodd â chydnabod y cyfrifoldeb hwnnw. Mae pobl yn ddig ac mae hynny’n ddealladwy. Yr wyf yn siŵr y siarada Peter Law ar ran Glynebwy a meddyliwn am bob un o’r cymunedau yng Nghymru yr effeithir arnynt gan y cyhoeddiadau hyn, ac nid yn unig y rheini yn ein hetholaethau ein hunain, gan fod pob un ohonom yn sylweddoli bod gennym gyfrifoldeb dros Gymru gyfan.
It is not an exaggeration to say that steel is woven into the fabric of life in Newport. As the Member for Newport East, it falls to me to speak for my constituency. Steel is vital to the Newport local economy and the importance of Llanwern spreads around the adjoining area, including the Gwent valleys where many Llanwern workers live. Underwood estate, on the outskirts of the Llanwern plant in my constituency, was built for the workforce for Llanwern. On Monday, I was at Ringland junior school. Ringland is a council estate that exists cheek by jowl with the Llanwern steelworks. In one of the classes, I asked the children to raise their hands if they had a parent who worked at the Llanwern plant, and around half the children raised their hands immediately. The headteacher told me that he had postponed asking parents whether they could finance a weekend school trip because of the speculation about the steel plant. He knew that the parents’ ability to pay for that trip would be drastically affected if the worst came to the worst at Llanwern.
Nid gorddweud fyddai dweud bod dur yn rhan annatod o fywyd Casnewydd. Fel yr Aelod dros Ddwyrain Casnewydd, fy lle i yw siarad dros fy etholaeth. Mae dur yn hanfodol i economi leol Casnewydd ac mae pwysigrwydd Llanwern yn lledaenu drwy’r ardal gyfagos, gan gynnwys cymoedd Gwent lle y mae llawer o weithwyr Llanwern yn byw. Adeiladwyd ystad Underwood, ar gyrion gwaith Llanwern yn fy etholaeth, ar gyfer gweithlu Llanwern. Ddydd Llun, bûm yn ysgol gynradd Ringland. Ystad tai cyngor yw Ringland sydd yn bodoli foch ym moch â gwaith dur Llanwern. Yn un o’r dosbarthiadau, gofynnais i’r plant godi eu llaw os oedd ganddynt riant a oedd yn gweithio yng ngwaith Llanwern, a chododd tua hanner y plant eu dwylo ar unwaith. Dywedodd y pennaeth wrthyf ei fod wedi gohirio gofyn i’r rhieni a allent ariannu taith ysgol ar y penwythnos oherwydd y dyfalu am y gwaith dur. Gwyddai y byddai gallu’r rhieni i dalu am y daith honno yn cael ei effeithio’n sylweddol pe digwyddai’r gwaethaf yn Llanwern.
That is just one example of the announcement’s effect. People have surprised me over the last weeks and months by pointing out their relationship with the plant, in terms of direct jobs, site contractors, supplier firms and small businesses that rely on the spending power of those people who will be affected by this announcement. The reliance on Llanwern is deep in the local economy.
Dim ond un enghraifft yw hynny o effaith y cyhoeddiad. Mae pobl wedi fy syfrdanu dros yr wythnosau a’r misoedd diwethaf drwy nodi eu perthynas â’r gwaith, o ran swyddi uniongyrchol, contractwyr ar y safle, cwmnïau cyflenwi a busnesau bach sydd yn dibynnu ar allu gwario’r bobl hynny yr effeithir arnynt gan y cyhoeddiad hwn. Mae’r economi leol yn dibynnu’n helaeth ar Lanwern.
The anger with Corus is justified. In recent months, we have seen how it has refused to engage with government at all levels—Westminster, Assembly and local government. It was intent on doing its own thing and was not responsive to possible aid packages that could have been put in place. The workforce and communities at Llanwern are shocked that a major employer has behaved in such a socially irresponsible way. People are asking questions about the nature of global capitalism today. They feel that Government is largely powerless to deal with these multinational companies and they are at a loss to understand what sort of meaningful Government response can be generated to protect communities and workforces. Many of us find it difficult to see how government can do anything to deal with this type of major structural problem other than what is at the margins.
Gellir cyfiawnhau’r dicter tuag at Corus. Yn ystod y misoedd diwethaf, gwelsom sut y gwrthododd drafod â llywodraeth ar bob lefel—San Steffan, y Cynulliad a llywodraeth leol. Yr oedd yn benderfynol o wneud fel y mynnai ac nid ymatebodd i becynnau cymorth posibl y gellid bod wedi eu rhoi ar waith. Mae’r gweithlu a’r cymunedau yn Llanwern wedi’u syfrdanu bod cyflogwr mawr wedi ymddwyn mewn ffordd mor gymdeithasol anghyfrifol. Gofynna pobl gwestiynau am natur cyfalafiaeth fyd-eang heddiw. Teimlant fod y Llywodraeth yn ddi-rym i raddau helaeth i ddelio â’r cwmnïau amlwladol hyn ac ni allant ddeall pa fath o ymateb ystyrlon y gall y Llywodraeth ei lunio i ddiogelu cymunedau a gweithluoedd. Mae llawer ohonom yn ei chael yn anodd gweld sut y gall llywodraeth wneud unrhyw beth i ddelio â phroblem strwythurol fawr o’r math hwn ar wahân i’r hyn sydd ar yr ymylon.
We all said—and it seemed to be a common sense view that struck a chord with the workforce and community—that in the past British Steel, as Rhodri said earlier, was a cash rich company because of the cyclical nature of the steel industry. There was a deliberate policy to make reserves available so that it could ride out the rough times and take a medium to long-term view. However, when the merger took place, around £700 million was paid to shareholders in what could only be described as a sweetener for the merger to go ahead. That £700 million could have kept British Steel operations going for around two years even at the height of its losses, which it claims were around £1 million per day. That is the nature of what has taken place and one reason why people are so angry. They believed that there was a medium to long-term future for steel, before the so-called restructuring, and that the company failed to recognise that. It was content to play to its City of London audience, to the shareholders and financial organisations that it wanted on board for its so-called restructuring. It had precious little regard for the local community, the workforce, the trade unions and all levels of government that wanted to engage with it and offer the support that could have seen it through these difficult times.
Dywedodd pob un ohonom—ac ymddengys ei bod yn farn synnwyr cyffredin a darodd dant â’r gweithlu a’r gymuned—fod llawer o arian gan gwmni Dur Prydain yn y gorffennol, fel y dywedodd Rhodri yn gynharach, oherwydd natur gylchol y diwydiant dur. Bu’n bolisi penodol i sicrhau cronfeydd wrth gefn fel y gallai oroesi’r amserau caled a chymryd safbwynt tymor canolig i dymor hir. Fodd bynnag, pan unwyd y cwmni, talwyd tua £700 miliwn i’r cyfranddalwyr—taliad y gellir ond ei ddisgrifio fel rhywbeth i iro llaw i sicrhau bod yr uno yn mynd rhagddo. Gallai’r £700 miliwn hynny wedi cadw gweithrediadau Dur Prydain i fynd am tua dwy flynedd hyd yn oed pan oedd ei golledion ar eu gwaethaf, sef tua £1 miliwn y dydd yn ôl y cwmni. Dyna natur yr hyn a ddigwyddodd ac un rheswm pam bod pobl mor ddig. Yr oeddent yn credu bod dyfodol tymor canolig i dymor hir ar gyfer dur, cyn yr ailstrwythuro honedig, ac y methodd y cwmni â chydnabod hynny. Yr oedd yn fodlon chwarae i’w gynulleidfa yn Ninas Llundain, i’w gyfranddalwyr ac i’r sefydliadau ariannol y dymunai eu cymorth ar gyfer ei waith ailstrwythuro honedig. Ychydig iawn o sylw a dalodd i’r gymuned leol, y gweithlu, yr undebau llafur a phob lefel o lywodraeth a ddymunodd drafod ag ef a chynnig y cymorth a allai fod wedi’i helpu i oresgyn yr amserau anodd hyn.
People’s anger with Corus is understandable. Even after taking these drastic steps to reduce jobs and capacity at Llanwern, people want to know its medium to long-term strategy. Let us be assured that Corus is committed to maintaining its operations at Llanwern in the medium to long-term future and that what we have seen today is not another staging post towards its complete withdrawal from the Newport area. People want to be reassured that it has a medium to long-term strategy and that they will not see death by a 1,000 cuts—another episode in this long-running saga of successive cuts in jobs and capacity. I urge Corus, even at this stage, to try to rebuild bridges with communities and the workforce by setting out a constructive strategy to reassure people on those grounds.
Mae dicter pobl tuag at Corus yn ddealladwy. Hyd yn oed ar ôl cymryd y camau eithafol hyn i leihau nifer y swyddi a chynhwysedd yn Llanwern, mae pobl yn awyddus i wybod ei strategaeth tymor canolig i dymor hir. Gadewch inni gael ein sicrhau bod Corus yn ymrwymedig i gynnal ei weithrediadau yn Llanwern yn y tymor canolig i’r tymor hir ac nad yw’r hyn a welsom heddiw yn gam arall tuag at dynnu allan o ardal Casnewydd yn gyfan gwbl. Mae pobl am gael eu sicrhau bod ganddo strategaeth tymor canolig i dymor hir ac na welant farwolaeth drwy 1,000 o doriadau—pennod arall yn y saga hirfaith hon o doriadau olynol mewn swyddi a chynhwysedd. Anogaf Corus, hyd yn oed yn awr, i geisio ailadeiladu pontydd â’r cymunedau a’r gweithlu drwy osod strategaeth adeiladol a fydd yn tawelu meddyliau pobl o ran y materion hynny.
Although there must be a period of immediate grieving, as it were, after what has happened, people will want to see quick government action so that the local community and those who will lose their jobs will have a future outside steel, as has to be the case as regards Llanwern. They will want to see meaningful and speedy action that adequately addresses the impact of this announcement on the economy in Newport and the wider area. People will know that the Government has been considering these issues because of ongoing speculation about job cuts and plant closures for many months and because of the harsh reality of their effect on the local economy. They will now want to see steps taken quickly to bring all the major players together—the Government, Government agencies, trade unions, representatives of the local communities and, of course, Corus—to deal with the aftermath of today’s announcement and to take the local economy and communities forward.
Er bod rhaid cael cyfnod o alaru ar y dechrau, fel petai, ar ôl yr hyn a ddigwyddodd, bydd pobl yn awyddus i weld y Llywodraeth yn cymryd camau cyflym fel y bydd dyfodol y tu allan i’r diwydiant dur i’r gymuned leol a’r rheini a fydd yn colli eu swyddi, fel sydd yn rhaid digwydd o ran Llanwern. Byddant yn awyddus i weld gweithredu ystyrlon a chyflym a fydd yn ymdrin yn ddigonol ag effaith y cyhoeddiad hwn ar economi Casnewydd a’r ardal ehangach. Gŵyr pobl fod y Llywodraeth wedi bod yn ystyried y materion hyn oherwydd y damcaniaethau parhaus am ddiswyddiadau a gweithfeydd yn cau ers nifer o fisoedd ac oherwydd realiti lym eu heffaith ar yr economi leol. Byddant yn awr yn awyddus i weld gweithredu cyflym i ddod â phob un o’r prif chwaraewyr ynghyd—y Llywodraeth, asiantaethau’r Llywodraeth, undebau llafur, cynrychiolwyr o’r cymunedau lleol ac, wrth gwrs, Corus—i ddelio â chanlyniad cyhoeddiad heddiw ac i ddatblygu’r economi a’r cymunedau lleol.
To close, it is impossible to exaggerate the effect of this announcement on the local workforce and community. People feel deeply about this. They remember the procession of lorries carrying the plant’s foundations to Llanwern in the late 1950s, and the plant opening in 1962 and the optimism in a town that has traditionally been built on iron and steel production. Regard for steel-making runs deep in the fabric of life in Newport. To lose steel-making capacity in Llanwern is a major psychological blow to the local community and workforce. It will take radical action on the part of the Government and Government agencies to reassure people and create optimism and hope for the future. I hope that that is taken on board and that there will be speedy action on that front.
I gloi, mae’n amhosibl gorddweud effaith y cyhoeddiad hwn ar y gweithlu a’r gymuned leol. Mae gan bobl deimladau cryf am hyn. Gallant gofio’r llif o lorïau yn cludo sylfeini’r gwaith i Lanwern ar ddiwedd y 1950au a gallant gofio’r gwaith yn agor yn 1962 a’r optimistiaeth mewn tref a adeiladwyd yn draddodiadol ar gynhyrchu haearn a dur. Mae parch tuag at gynhyrchu dur yn rhan annatod o fywyd Casnewydd. Mae colli’r gallu i gynhyrchu dur yn Llanwern yn ergyd seicolegol drom i’r gymuned a’r gweithlu lleol. Bydd angen camau radicalaidd ar ran y Llywodraeth ac asiantaethau’r Llywodraeth i dawelu meddyliau pobl ac i greu optimistiaeth a gobaith ar gyfer y dyfodol. Gobeithiaf y derbynnir hyn ac y bydd gweithredu cyflym yn hynny o beth.
Although the statistics in today’s press statement from Corus are staggering, this is more about the individual impact that it will have on families in the centres that are affected, principally Llanwern. It is also devastating news for Shotton, Ebbw Vale—I am sure that Peter Law will tell us of its impact on that community—Bryngwyn and also, let us not forget England. This is about individual stories of misery, not just the staggering nature of the statistics.
Er bod yr ystadegau yn y datganiad i’r wasg gan Corus heddiw yn syfrdanol, mae hyn ymwneud mwy â’r effaith unigol a gaiff ar deuluoedd yn y canolfannau yr effeithir arnynt, sef Llanwern yn bennaf. Mae hefyd yn newyddion torcalonnus i Shotton, Glynebwy—yr wyf yn siŵr y bydd Peter Law yn dweud wrthym am ei effaith ar y gymuned honno—Bryngwyn a hefyd, ni ddylem anghofio am Loegr. Mae hyn yn ymwneud ag adfyd unigolion, nid yn unig â natur syfrdanol yr ystadegau.
It is clear that Corus has been less than open in its dealings on this issue. However, I question at this stage whether much is to be gained from an outright assault on and criticism of Corus. We must now move things on and provide reassurance and hope to those people who have lost their jobs. In the spirit of constructive criticism, if there is a failure on the Government’s part on this issue, it is that it has given the impression of being buffeted about by events and has not provided the lead that people are entitled to expect in terms of what happens now. We must look to the future and put forward constructive measures to enable these people to find jobs.
Mae’n amlwg y bu Corus yn llai nag agored wrth ymdrin â’r mater hwn. Fodd bynnag, yr wyf yn amau ar hyn o bryd a oes llawer o ddiben ymosod a beirniadu Corus yn llwyr. Rhaid inni symud pethau ymlaen yn awr a thawelu meddyliau a rhoi gobaith i’r bobl hynny sydd wedi colli eu swyddi. Yn ysbryd beirniadaeth adeiladol, os methodd y Llywodraeth mewn unrhyw ffordd ynglŷn â’r mater hwn, gwnaeth hynny drwy roi’r argraff o gael ei hysgwyd gan y digwyddiadau a pheidio ag arwain yn y ffordd y mae hawl gan bobl ei disgwyl o ran yr hyn sydd yn digwydd yn awr. Rhaid inni edrych at y dyfodol ac awgrymu mesurau adeiladol i alluogi’r bobl hynny i ddod o hyd i waith.
He is using the wrong tone.
Defnyddia’r oslef anghywir.
It is important that we have a full debate today. I understand that the administration quite rightly changed its mind on this issue, recognising the strength of opinion across all parties in the Chamber and the importance of considering what measures to put in place to help families in this crisis.
Mae’n bwysig y cawn ddadl lawn heddiw. Deallaf y newidiodd y weinyddiaeth ei meddwl, a hynny’n briodol ar y mater hwn, gan gydnabod bod barn gref ar draws pob plaid yn y Siambr a chydnabod pwysigrwydd ystyried pa fesurau y dylid eu sefydlu i helpu teuluoedd yn yr argyfwng hwn.
I will give way to the Minister for Culture, Sport and the Welsh Language rather than listen to her murmur under her breath.
Ildiaf i’r Gweinidog dros Ddiwylliant, Chwaraeon a’r Gymraeg yn hytrach na gwrando arni yn sibrwd o dan ei hanadl.
Dafydd Elis-Thomas The Presiding Officer spoken in English p. 39
Dafydd Elis-Thomas Y Llywydd siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 39
No. Please continue.
Na wnewch. Parhewch os gwelwch yn dda.
I hope, at this stage, that the First Minister will engage with the chair of the Welsh Development Agency. I spoke with Sir David Rowe-Beddoe and others at the WDA yesterday about jobs and this impending situation. We must now consider what to do in terms of offering help and job shops and so on to these communities. They will not be thinking about who to blame—they may think about that in the short term—but where to go next. This has been like an express train coming through a tunnel. It has been obvious to Assembly Members for some time that there would be significant job losses in these communities. Therefore, it is important that when the First Minister responds, he at least gives an assurance about what contingency plans he will bring forward to assist these communities. We have seen significant job losses across the board in Wales, not just in Corus. This is just the most staggering and devastating example in a long list of job losses throughout Wales. There have been job losses recently in Dairy Crest—which will be discussed later today—in Valeo, as Ieuan Wyn Jones has already mentioned, and in Panasonic, Sony, Alcan, Gossard and Dewhirst. It seems that there has only been bad news recently—and that is not taking into account what is happening in the agriculture sector.
Gobeithiaf, yn awr, y bydd Prif Weinidog Cymru yn trafod â chadeirydd Awdurdod Datblygu Cymru. Siaradais â Syr David Rowe-Beddoe ac eraill yn y WDA ddoe am swyddi a’r sefyllfa hon a oedd ar y gweill. Rhaid inni ystyried yn awr beth i’w wneud o ran cynnig cymorth a siopau gwaith ac ati i’r cymunedau hyn. Ni fyddant hwy’n meddwl am bwy sydd ar fai—efallai y meddyliant am hynny yn y tymor byr—ond am ble i fynd nesaf. Bu hyn fel trên cyflym yn dod drwy dwnnel. Bu’n amlwg i Aelodau’r Cynulliad ers peth amser y byddai diswyddiadau sylweddol yn y cymunedau hyn. Felly, mae’n bwysig, pan ymateba’r Prif Weinidog, y rhydd sicrwydd o leiaf am ba gynlluniau wrth gefn y bydd yn eu datblygu i gynorthwyo’r cymunedau hyn. Gwelsom ddiswyddiadau sylweddol ledled Cymru, nid yn Corus yn unig. Dim ond yr enghraifft fwyaf syfrdanol a thorcalonnus yw hon mewn cyfres hir o ddiswyddiadau ledled Cymru. Bu diswyddiadau yn ddiweddar yn Dairy Crest—a gânt eu trafod yn ddiweddarach heddiw—yn Valeo, fel y crybwyllodd Ieuan Wyn Jones eisoes, ac yn Panasonic, Sony, Alcan, Gossard a Dewhirst. Ymddengys mai dim ond newyddion gwael a gafwyd yn ddiweddar—ac mae hynny heb ystyried yr hyn sydd yn digwydd yn y sector amaethyddol.
The Government must map out a clear economic strategy to deal with this situation. The strategy that it had mapped out was rejected yesterday by the Economic Development Committee and a combination of Conservative, Labour and Plaid Cymru Members. We need a clear sense of direction, First Minister. I agree that Corus has not behaved well throughout this but it is no good wringing our hands about that now. We must offer hope to these communities. That can only come about through measures to create jobs in those communities and throughout Wales, so that we do not return week after week to hear more bad news such as that we have heard today.
Rhaid i’r Llywodraeth lunio strategaeth economaidd glir i ymdrin â’r sefyllfa hon. Ddoe gwrthodwyd y strategaeth yr oedd wedi’i llunio gan y Pwyllgor Datblygu Economaidd a chyfuniad o Aelodau Ceidwadol, Llafur a Phlaid Cymru. Mae angen cyfeiriad clir arnom, Brif Weinidog. Cytunaf nad yw Corus wedi ymddwyn yn dda drwy gydol hyn ond nid oes pwynt gwasgu’n dwylo am hynny yn awr. Rhaid inni gynnig gobaith i’r cymunedau hyn. Dim ond drwy gyflwyno mesurau i greu swyddi yn y cymunedau hynny a ledled Cymru y gellir cyflawni hynny, fel na ddychwelwn wythnos ar ôl wythnos i glywed mwy o newyddion gwael fel yr hyn a glywsom heddiw.
Today is a terrible occasion for us in Wales. As the First Minister has said, it is a sad day. From the time that the British Steel and Koninklijke Hoogovens merger took place, there has been no doubt that we were sold a lemon. I said so at the time and Wales has born the brunt of these cuts, as you can see from today’s statement. If this is a terrible tragedy for Wales, it is devastating for Ebbw Vale and Blaenau Gwent, which I am proud to represent here today. It is a tragic day indeed. You have to live there to understand the impact of this. When a community has been dominated by a steelworks for 70 years, you cannot believe that there will be a day when you will wake up and it will no longer be there. That is the psychological impact of this announcement. That is the difference it makes, when you have no alternative economic base to fall back on and you are living 26 miles up in a Valleys community with no hope for the future. That is what people feel in Ebbw Vale as a result of today’s terrible announcement.
Mae heddiw yn achlysur ofnadwy inni yng Nghymru. Fel y dywedodd y Prif Weinidog, mae’n ddiwrnod trist. Ers i gwmnïau Dur Prydain a Koninklijke Hoogovens uno, cawsom rywbeth di-werth, heb unrhyw amheuaeth. Dywedais hynny ar y pryd a dioddefodd Cymru y gwaethaf o’r toriadau hyn, fel y gallwch ei weld o’r datganiad heddiw. Os yw hon yn drychineb ofnadwy i Gymru, mae’n dorcalonnus i Lynebwy a Blaenau Gwent, yr wyf yn falch o’u cynrychioli yma heddiw. Mae’n ddiwrnod trasig yn wir. Rhaid ichi fyw yno i ddeall effaith hyn. Pan fydd cymuned wedi bod o dan ddylanwad gwaith dur ers 70 o flynyddoedd, ni allwch gredu y daw diwrnod pan ddihunwch ac ni fydd yno mwyach. Dyna effaith seicolegol y cyhoeddiad hwn. Dyna’r gwahaniaeth a wna, pan nad oes gennych sail economaidd amgen i ddisgyn yn ôl arno a phan yr ydych yn byw 26 milltir i fyny mewn cymuned yn y Cymoedd heb obaith ar gyfer y dyfodol. Dyna’r hyn y mae pobl yng Nglynebwy yn ei deimlo o ganlyniad i’r cyhoeddiad ofnadwy heddiw.
I extend my sympathy to those who work in Llanwern. John Griffiths is right to issue a note of caution, because, sadly, Ebbw Vale’s today could be Llanwern’s tomorrow. Take it from me, because I have lived through it in Ebbw Vale. I see where we are now and how we got there, because I was involved in the closures in the 1970s when the works were repeatedly cut down. The wonderful workforce in Ebbw Vale, to which I pay tribute, has always co-operated fully and been loyal. It has always accepted redundancies to ensure the viability of the works, never expecting that the day would come when it would be told that the works—the lifeblood of the community—would close.
Cydymdeimlaf â’r rheini sydd yn gweithio yn Llanwern. Mae’n briodol bod John Griffiths yn dweud wrthym am fod yn bwyllog oherwydd, yn anffodus, gallai’r hyn sydd yn digwydd yng Nglynebwy heddiw ddigwydd yn Llanwern yfory. Credwch fy ngeiriau, oherwydd yr wyf wedi byw drwyddo yng Nglynebwy. Gwelaf lle yr ydym yn awr a sut y cyraeddasom yma, oherwydd yr oeddwn yn gysylltiedig â gweithfeydd yn cau yn y 1970au pan fu toriadau rheolaidd yn y gweithfeydd. Mae’r gweithlu ardderchog yng Nglynebwy, y talaf deyrnged iddo, bob amser wedi cydweithio’n llawn ac wedi bod yn ffyddlon. Derbyniodd ddiswyddiadau bob amser er mwyn sicrhau dichonoldeb y gweithfeydd, heb ddisgwyl y deuai’r diwrnod pan ddywedid wrtho y byddai’r gweithfeydd—anadl einioes y gymuned—yn cau.
There cannot be anybody in this Chamber who has not heard of Ebbw Vale steelworks. As you grew up, you always heard about it. So many people have worked there, even if only during their holidays from university. I have met so many people from other parts of Wales who have said that they have worked at Ebbw Vale steelworks. It is a tragedy that that tradition and cultural heritage is being lost today. I extend my sympathy to all the others, and the people in Llanwern, who face these cuts and to the people in Carmarthen who have been devastated by yesterday’s announcement about the closure of Dairy Crest’s operations there. I know what it means to lose about 300 jobs. It is equivalent to losing 600 jobs in many other places. I know and understand what it is like to try to recover from that. How can Corus do this to steelworkers whose only offence has been high productivity and total loyalty? How can it do this to communities as poor as Ebbw Vale and Blaenau Gwent, which have the highest rates of deprivation and unemployment and so many other problems?
Mae’n rhaid fod pawb yn y Siambr hon wedi clywed am weithfeydd dur Glynebwy. Wrth ichi dyfu, yr oeddech yn clywed amdano o hyd. Mae cymaint o bobl wedi gweithio yno, hyd yn oed os ydynt ond wedi gweithio yno yn ystod eu gwyliau tra’n y brifysgol. Yr wyf wedi cwrdd â chymaint o bobl o rannau eraill o Gymru a ddywedodd iddynt weithio yng ngweithfeydd dur Glynebwy. Mae’n drychineb y collir y traddodiad hwnnw a’r etifeddiaeth ddiwylliannol honno heddiw. Cydymdeimlaf â phawb arall, a’r bobl yn Llanwern, sydd yn wynebu’r toriadau hyn ac i’r bobl yng Nghaerfyrddin, y torrwyd eu calonnau gan y cyhoeddiad ddoe bod gweithrediadau Dairy Crest yno yn cau. Gwn beth mae colli tua 300 o swyddi yn ei olygu. Mae’n gyfwerth â cholli 600 o swyddi mewn llawer o leoedd eraill. Gwn a deallaf pa mor anodd yw ceisio adfer pethau ar ôl hynny. Sut y gall Corus wneud hyn i weithwyr dur na wnaethant ddim byd o’i le heblaw sicrhau cynhyrchiant uchel a ffyddlondeb llwyr? Sut y gall wneud hyn i gymunedau mor dlawd â Glynebwy a Blaenau Gwent, sydd â’r cyfraddau uchaf o amddifadedd a diweithdra ac sydd â chymaint o broblemau eraill?
The merger was not a blank cheque to wipe out the Welsh steel industry. No-one suggested that that would be the case, but within two years that has, virtually, happened. Brian Moffat, who following today’s announcement holds the dubious honour of being probably the most hated man in Wales, will carry a heavy responsibility for what has happened for the rest of his life. It is amazing that this man lives 40 miles from the Ebbw Vale plant and yet can still come to such a conclusion. He represents a company that lied and chose the most dishonourable approach possible. It lied about the blast furnace at Llanwern. Do you remember that it said it would reline the blast furnace? There will not be a blast furnace. It lied to the workers in the Ebbw Vale plant when it said that the way forward was plan B, which would have meant that, despite 250 compulsory redundancies, the works would remain open. It lied.
Nid oedd yr uno yn rhoi rhyddid llwyr iddynt ddinistrio diwydiant dur Cymru yn gyfan gwbl. Nid awgrymodd neb y byddai hynny’n wir, ond o fewn dwy flynedd, mae hynny wedi digwydd, bron iawn. Bydd Brian Moffat, sydd â’r fraint amheus o fod y dyn mwyaf atgas gan bobl yng Nghymru, yn ôl pob tebyg, yn sgîl y cyhoeddiad heddiw, yn dwyn cyfrifoldeb mawr am yr hyn a ddigwyddodd am weddill ei fywyd. Mae’n rhyfeddol bod y dyn hwn yn byw 40 milltir o waith Glynebwy ac eto y gall ddod i gasgliad o’r fath. Cynrychiola gwmni a ddywedodd gelwydd ac a ddewisodd yr ymagwedd fwyaf anonest posibl. Dywedodd gelwydd am y ffwrnais chwyth yn Llanwern. A gofiwch iddo ddweud y byddai’n ail-leinio’r ffwrnais chwyth? Ni fydd ffwrnais chwyth. Dywedodd gelwydd wrth y gweithwyr yng ngwaith Glynebwy pan ddywedodd mai cynllun B oedd y ffordd ymlaen, a fyddai wedi golygu, er gwaethaf 250 o ddiswyddiadau gorfodol, y byddai’r gweithfeydd wedi aros ar agor. Dywedodd gelwydd.
With a stroke of a pen, Brian Moffat and his board have plunged my community into bottomless poverty. That is what we face in Blaenau Gwent. They have stolen the economic stability of thousands of people, not only those who work in the plant, the people who supply the plant and the contractors, but the thousands of men, women and children who depend on them. They have smashed a proud tradition and stolen the identity of my community as a steel town. I will never forgive them for that. Their decision has destroyed a proud heritage in Ebbw Vale.
Ag un ergyd, taflodd Brian Moffat a’i fwrdd fy nghymuned i dlodi diwaelod. Dyna’r hyn a wynebwn ym Mlaenau Gwent. Dygasant sefydlogrwydd economaidd miloedd o bobl, nid yn unig y rheini sydd yn gweithio yn y gwaith, y bobl sydd yn cyflenwi’r gwaith a’r contractwyr, ond y miloedd o ddynion, gwragedd a phlant sydd yn dibynnu arnynt. Maent wedi chwalu traddodiad balch ac wedi dwyn hunaniaeth fy nghymuned fel tref ddur. Ni faddeuaf fyth iddynt am wneud hynny. Dinistriodd eu penderfyniad etifeddiaeth falch yng Nglynebwy.
It is estimated that £25 million will be lost from the local economy in an already highly deprived community. All this is because of a board of executioners and axemen on a multinational company who are dispassionate, callous, indifferent, have no social conscience and put profit before people. Today, thousands of people in Ebbw Vale have lost their chance of economic stability for the future. A proud workforce deserves far better than that. This company has executed a premeditated global plan. In my opinion it was, without a shadow of a doubt, underway a month after the merger was announced. The issues of euro rates, energy charges, business rates are all red herrings. That was proven when the First Minister made offers on business rates. Corus did not want to know. It knew exactly what it was going to do. It had planned these executions in advance. That is why those offers were rejected.
Amcangyfrifir y caiff £25 miliwn eu colli o’r economi leol mewn cymuned sydd eisoes yn ddifreintiedig iawn. Digwydd hyn oll oherwydd bwrdd o ddienyddwyr a bwyellwyr mewn cwmni rhyngwladol sydd yn ddideimlad, yn groengaled, yn ddifater, nad oes ganddynt gydwybod cymdeithasol ac sydd yn rhoi elw cyn pobl. Heddiw, collodd miloedd o bobl yng Nglynebwy eu cyfle i gael sefydlogrwydd economaidd ar gyfer y dyfodol. Haedda gweithlu balch fwy o lawer na hynny. Cyflawnodd y cwmni hwn gynllun byd-eang rhagfwriadol. Yn fy marn i, dechreuodd, heb rithyn o amheuaeth, fis ar ôl i’r cwmni gyhoeddi’r uno. Sgwarnogod yw’r holl faterion ynghylch cyfraddau ewro, taliadau ynni ac ardrethi busnes. Profwyd hynny pan wnaeth Prif Weinidog Cymru gynigion o ran ardrethi busnes. Nid oedd gan Corus ddiddordeb ynddynt. Gwyddai yn union beth yr oedd yn mynd i’w wneud. Yr oedd wedi cynllunio’r dienyddiadau hyn ymlaen llaw. Dyna pam y gwrthodwyd y cynigion hynny.
The merger has decimated much of the Welsh steel industry. Corus’s lack of communication has been a disgrace. It has added insult to injury for decent hardworking people, who deserve better, and for their families who have suffered continual worry through the Christmas period. In Ebbw Vale, in my constituency, we face another era of soup kitchens and handouts. We have never recovered from the last steel closures or coal closures, as those in coal mining communities will remember. In 1989, 685 jobs were lost in the Marine colliery, the last colliery in Blaenau Gwent. Neither the amount nor the quality of those jobs has been replaced. The quality of these jobs will never be replaced. That is the seriousness of this type of announcement. When you live 26 miles up in the valley, as we do, an announcement like this means that the poor have just become poorer once again.
Pan unodd y cwmni, anrheithiwyd llawer o’r diwydiant dur yng Nghymru. Bu diffyg cyfathrebu Corus yn warthus. Rhoddodd halen yn y briw i bobl weithgar dda, sydd yn haeddu gwell, ac i’w teuluoedd a bryderodd yn barhaus dros gyfnod y Nadolig. Yng Nglynebwy, yn fy etholaeth, wynebwn gyfnod arall o geginau cawl a chardod. Nid ydym erioed wedi dod i delerau â’r cyfnod diwethaf pan gaewyd gweithfeydd dur neu lo, fel y cofia’r rheini sydd yn byw yn y cymunedau glo. Yn 1989, collwyd 685 o swyddi ym mhwll glo Marine, y pwll glo olaf ym Mlaenau Gwent. Nid ailenillwyd nifer y swyddi hynny na’u hansawdd. Ni cheir swyddi o’r ansawdd hwn byth eto. Dyna pa mor ddifrifol yw cyhoeddiad o’r math hwn. Pan ydych yn byw 26 milltir i fyny’r cwm, fel yr ydym ni, golyga cyhoeddiad fel hyn fod y tlawd wedi mynd yn dlotach unwaith eto.
I pay tribute to the First Minister for the work that he has tried to do on behalf of the Assembly in talking to Corus. He has been rejected and ignored throughout. The way that he has been treated is disgraceful. This National Assembly now has a duty. A few well-meaning job advisers in a few warm portacabins will not suffice. I have seen it all before and it is not the answer. This time we must get it right for these people. We are at the end of an era and the alternative is too terrible to contemplate. This Assembly should be totally committed to bringing new, quality jobs to my people in Blaenau Gwent. In the weeks and months ahead I will work with the trade unions at the Ebbw Vale plant, with the Blaenau Gwent County Borough Council, with this Assembly, and with the UK Government—which has a lot to do in this respect—to achieve a review of the Ebbw Vale situation. I do not accept this closure, by any means. I will ask the company to review this in the next 15 months, before the axe falls in the final closure in mid 2002.
Talaf deyrnged i’r Prif Weinidog am y gwaith a geisiodd ei wneud ar ran y Cynulliad wrth siarad â Corus. Fe’i gwrthodwyd ac fe’i hanwybyddwyd drwy gydol y broses. Mae’r ffordd y cafodd ei drin yn warthus. Mae dyletswydd gan y Cynulliad Cenedlaethol hwn yn awr. Ni fydd ychydig o gynghorwyr swydd â bwriadau da mewn ychydig o gabanau cynnes yn ddigon. Gwelais bopeth o’r blaen ac nid dyna’r ateb. Y tro hwn, rhaid inni wneud y peth iawn ar gyfer y bobl hyn. Yr ydym wedi cyrraedd diwedd cyfnod ac mae’r dewis amgen yn rhy ofnadwy i’w ystyried. Dylai’r Cynulliad hwn fod yn hollol ymrwymedig i ddod â swyddi newydd o ansawdd i’m pobl ym Mlaenau Gwent. Yn yr wythnosau a’r misoedd i ddod, cydweithiaf â’r undebau llafur yng ngwaith Glynebwy, â Chyngor Bwrdeistref Sirol Blaenau Gwent, â’r Cynulliad hwn, ac â Llywodraeth y DU—sydd â llawer i’w wneud ynglŷn â hyn—er mwyn sicrhau adolygiad o’r sefyllfa yng Nglynebwy. Ni dderbyniaf, ar unrhyw gyfrif, y ffaith bod y cwmni yn cau’r gwaith hwn. Gofynnaf i’r cwmni adolygu hyn yn y 15 mis nesaf, cyn bod y gwaith yn cau yn gyfan gwbl yng nghanol 2002.
However, it is important that I call on Tony Blair, Gordon Brown and Stephen Byers today to recognise the vast importance of the manufacturing industry in Britain as a whole and how vital it is to us in Wales. We know that. They cannot close their eyes to it. We have always recognised that fact and recognised it as far as the steel industry is concerned. Call centres are wonderful, and modern technology is great, but there has to be manufacturing industry to give our people a chance.
Fodd bynnag, mae’n bwysig imi alw ar Tony Blair, Gordon Brown a Stephen Byers heddiw i gydnabod pwysigrwydd anferth y diwydiant gweithgynhyrchu ym Mhrydain gyfan a pha mor hanfodol ydyw inni yng Nghymru. Gwyddom hynny. Ni allant ei anwybyddu. Yr ydym bob amser wedi cydnabod y ffaith honno ac wedi ei chydnabod mewn perthynas â’r diwydiant dur. Mae canolfannau galw yn ardderchog, ac mae technoleg fodern yn wych, ond mae’n rhaid cael diwydiant gweithgynhyrchu i roi cyfleoedd i’n pobl.
ISERB payments for our steelworkers must be provided, and I ask the First Minister to tell Stephen Byers and the UK Government that we must have the ISERB redundancy payments enhanced from Europe. These people deserve that if they are to be thrown out after years and decades of loyalty. We must support that, because they must have the same rights as other steelworkers in Europe. There is no point our being in Europe if we are unable to enjoy those benefits. That is why the UK Government must agree to that. There are no sacred cows as far as I am concerned, because at the end of the day we are talking about men, women and children who need a future and a chance to survive. Survival is what this is all about when you come from a community like mine. So for the future direction of industry, I expect new incentives and greater resources, and I expect those to give my people a chance.
Rhaid darparu taliadau ISERB i’n gweithwyr dur, a gofynnaf i Brif Weinidog Cymru ddweud wrth Stephen Byers a Llywodraeth y DU fod yn rhaid i Ewrop wella ein taliadau diswyddo ISERB. Mae’r bobl hyn yn haeddu hynny os cânt eu taflu allan ar ôl blynyddoedd a degawdau o ffyddlondeb. Rhaid inni gefnogi hynny, gan fod yn rhaid iddynt gael yr un hawliau â gweithwyr dur eraill yn Ewrop. Nid oes diben inni fod yn rhan o Ewrop os na allwn fwynhau’r manteision hynny. Dyna pam bod yn rhaid i Lywodraeth y DU gytuno â hynny. Nid oes dim yn gysegredig yn fy marn i, oherwydd, yn y pen draw, yr ydym yn sôn am ddynion, gwragedd a phlant y mae angen dyfodol a chyfle i oroesi arnynt. Goroesi yw’r hyn sydd yn bwysig pan ddewch o gymuned fel fy nghymuned innau. Felly, o ran cyfeiriad y diwydiant yn y dyfodol, disgwyliaf fentrau newydd a mwy o adnoddau, a disgwyliaf y rhydd y rheini gyfle i’m pobl.
I will close with these remarks, because I will leave shortly to go to my constituency. I hope that Members will understand that. I need to get to Ebbw Vale; I want to be there to identify with people. I never thought that I would have to stand here and speak about the closure of Ebbw Vale works. I cannot believe it, having been a local authority member for so long. I leave you with this message: nobody is going to write us off in Ebbw Vale or Blaenau Gwent. We will fight on. I look to this National Assembly to fight on with us, to give those steelworkers the opportunity that they richly deserve, because they have worked hard for decades to make Britain the success that it has been. No tin-pot, multinational, bits-and-pieces Corus company will rob us of that tradition. We will fight on and we expect the support of the Assembly. [Applause.]
Gorffennaf gyda’r sylwadau hyn, gan fy mod yn gadael cyn bo hir i fynd i’m hetholaeth. Gobeithiaf y bydd yr Aelodau yn deall hynny. Mae angen imi fynd i Lynebwy; yr wyf yn awyddus i fod yno er mwyn uniaethu â phobl. Ni chredwn erioed y byddai’n rhaid imi sefyll yma a siarad am waith Glynebwy yn cau. Ni allaf ei gredu, wedi bod yn aelod o’r awdurdod lleol am gymaint o amser. Fe’ch gadawaf gyda’r neges hon: ni chaniatawn i neb ein cyfrif yn fethiant yng Nglynebwy na Blaenau Gwent. Parhawn i ymladd. Disgwyliaf i’r Cynulliad Cenedlaethol barhau i ymladd gyda ni, i roi i’r gweithwyr dur hynny y cyfle y maent yn ei haeddu’n fawr, gan eu bod wedi gweithio mor galed am ddegawdau i sicrhau llwyddiant Prydain. Ni fydd cwmni rhyngwladol, pitw, ceiniog a dimau Corus yn dwyn y traddodiad hwnnw oddi wrthym. Parhawn i ymladd a disgwyliwn gefnogaeth y Cynulliad. [Cymeradwyaeth.]
In our hearts we had feared today ever since the announcement of the merger of British Steel Corporation and Koninklijke Hoogovens. Our fears were heightened when Sir Brian Moffat took over with the instructions to cut the carbon steel division in the UK. We should have been prepared. However, it is difficult to prepare for such a devastating blow. Even up until last week, in my heart of hearts, I could not believe that it would happen. Yet it has.
Yn ein calonnau, ofnasem heddiw ers y cyhoeddiad y byddai’r Gorfforaeth Ddur Brydeinig a Koninklijke Hoogovens yn uno. Cynyddwyd ein hofnau pan gymerodd Syr Brian Moffat drosodd gyda chyfarwyddiadau i leihau’r is-adran dur carbon yn y DU. Dylem fod wedi bod yn barod. Fodd bynnag, mae’n anodd paratoi ar gyfer ergyd mor ddinistriol. Hyd yn oed tan yr wythnos diwethaf, yng ngwaelod fy nghalon, ni allwn gredu y byddai’n digwydd. Ond eto mae wedi digwydd.
The blow to Llanwern will have a savage effect on Newport, Caldicot, Underwood and the valleys that feed into that area. However, the blow to Ebbw Vale, as Peter said, will be total. I do not know of any town that is so structured on the basis of one industry. The steelworks is the heart of Ebbw Vale. I remember, when I was a little boy, my father pointing out to me in the evening a light in the sky, saying ‘Those are the Ebbw Vale lights,’ when the furnaces were opened. That is one of my childhood memories. In the short debate on science that we have now abandoned, I would have mentioned that it was only a few miles from there that Gilchrist Thomas did the technical work that led to the development of the modern steel industry in America, Germany and many other countries. Now the whole tradition is threatened and the heart of a town is being ripped out. I can only imagine the heavy depression that must be hitting the 2,500 families in Wales today that are directly affected and the uncertainty affecting all the associated industries and other people—the shopkeepers and those who work in towns throughout Wales such as Tredegar, Ebbw Vale and Caldicot. As has so often been said, this is the reward for achieving, with the full co-operation of a loyal workforce, the highest levels of productivity. A sector that has given so much to the UK and the world is being destroyed, unless we can mount a defence.
Caiff yr ergyd i Lanwern effaith greulon ar Gasnewydd, Caldicot, Underwood a’r cymoedd sydd yn bwydo’r ardal honno. Fodd bynnag, effeithia’r ergyd yn gyfan gwbl ar Lynebwy, fel y dywedodd Peter. Nid wyf yn ymwybodol o unrhyw dref sydd wedi’i chreu cymaint ar un diwydiant. Y gwaith dur sydd wrth wraidd Glynebwy. Gallaf gofio fy nhad yn dangos goleuadau yn yr awyr gyda’r hwyr imi, pan oeddwn yn fachgen bach, gan ddweud ‘Dyna oleuadau Glynebwy,’ pan agorwyd y ffwrneisi. Dyna un o’r atgofion sydd gennyf o’m plentyndod. Yn y ddadl fer ar wyddoniaeth yr ydym bellach wedi rhoi’r gorau iddi, byddwn wedi crybwyll mai dim ond ychydig o filltiroedd oddi yno y gwnaeth Gilchrist Thomas y gwaith technegol a arweiniodd at ddatblygu’r diwydiant dur modern yn America, yr Almaen a llawer o wledydd eraill. Mae’r traddodiad cyfan bellach o dan fygythiad a rhwygir calon tref. Gallaf ond dychmygu pa mor isel eu hysbryd yw’r 2,500 o deuluoedd yng Nghymru heddiw yr effeithir arnynt yn uniongyrchol a’r ansicrwydd sydd yn effeithio ar bob un o’r diwydiannau cysylltiedig a phobl eraill—y perchnogion siopau a’r rheini sydd yn gweithio mewn trefi ledled Cymru megis Tredegar, Glynebwy a Caldicot. Fel y dywedwyd eisoes mor aml, dyma’r wobr am gyflawni’r lefelau cynhyrchiant uchaf, gyda chydweithrediad llawn gweithlu ffyddlon. Caiff y sector a roddodd gymaint i’r DU a’r byd ei ddifetha, oni allwn ei amddiffyn.
It is a disgrace how Corus has kept its workers in the dark about its plans. Let us remember that this situation would not have been tolerated in many other European countries. It would not have been tolerated in the Netherlands. The ease with which workers can be dismissed in the UK, covered by the euphemism ‘flexibility’, is a legacy of the Conservative Government’s policies. We ask the UK Government—and we ask Labour AMs to press for it within their party—to accept the European Directive on the consultation of workers, which has been blocked. We need that sort of machinery to prevent other firms from doing what Corus has done. This is an issue on which all parties should unite. All parties should press for it.
Mae’n warthus bod Corus wedi cadw ei weithwyr yn y niwl o ran ei gynlluniau. Gadewch inni gofio na châi’r sefyllfa hon ei goddef mewn llawer o wledydd Ewropeaidd eraill. Ni fyddai’r Iseldiroedd wedi’i goddef. Mae’r ffaith ei bod mor hawdd diswyddo gweithwyr yn y DU, wedi’i guddio yn y gair mwys ‘hyblygrwydd’, yn rhywbeth a etifeddwyd o bolisïau’r Llywodraeth Geidwadol. Gofynnwn i Lywodraeth y DU—a gofynnwn i’r ASau Llafur bwyso amdano o fewn eu plaid—dderbyn y Gyfarwyddeb Ewropeaidd ar ymgynghori â gweithwyr, a gafodd ei rhwystro. Mae angen y math hwnnw o beirianwaith arnom i atal cwmnïau eraill rhag gwneud yr hyn a wnaeth Corus. Dyma fater lle y dylai pob plaid uno. Dylai pob plaid bwyso amdano.
Corus’s failure is deplorable, but we cannot say that we did not have advance warning of it. Sometimes when a closure is announced, we complain that we should have been given advance information. However, in this case, we had warnings. Every previous cut in Corus employment was a warning sign; it was called the ‘salami slicing’. However, they were warnings. I have spoken time and again about those warnings. The management of Corus, with all the big guns, came to the Assembly to give us that unambiguous warning. We must be clear-headed. Whatever other factors were involved—and there were many other factors—the high value of the pound was, as Peter Law said, the largest single factor. It is destroying manufacturing industry. Corus may have behaved deplorably, but I will not go through the long list of other factories, some with genuine roots in Wales, that have been similarly affected. Their prosperity depends on exports to Europe.
Mae methiant Corus yn echrydus, ond ni allwn ddweud na chawsom rybudd ohono ymlaen llaw. Weithiau, pan gyhoeddir bod gwaith yn cau, cwynwn y dylid bod wedi rhoi gwybodaeth inni ymlaen llaw. Fodd bynnag, yn yr achos hwn, fe’n rhybuddiwyd. Cawsom rybudd bob tro y gostyngodd Corus nifer y gweithwyr; fe’i galwyd yn ‘lleihau’n raddol’ neu ‘salami slicing’. Fodd bynnag, cafwyd rhybuddion. Soniais dro ar ôl tro am y rhybuddion hynny. Daeth rheolwyr Corus, gyda’r holl bobl bwysig, i’r Cynulliad i roi’r rhybudd diamwys hwnnw inni. Rhaid inni fod yn graff. Beth bynnag oedd y ffactorau perthnasol eraill—ac yr oedd llawer o ffactorau eraill—gwerth uchel y bunt oedd y ffactor unigol mwyaf, fel y dywedodd Peter Law. Mae’n dinistrio’r diwydiant gweithgynhyrchu. Efallai bod Corus wedi ymddwyn mewn ffordd ofnadwy, ond ni af drwy’r rhestr hir o ffatrïoedd eraill, y mae gan rai ohonynt wreiddiau go iawn yng Nghymru, yr effeithir arnynt mewn ffordd debyg. Dibynna eu ffyniant ar allforio i Ewrop.
We have called for action from the Government to restore the pound to a competitive exchange rate, because every time we say that we had the most productive steelworks, which were efficient and used the most modern technologies, we imply that there is some other factor involved. It cannot be denied that exporting in the context of an unreal exchange rate is a factor that we must tackle. I, and many people here, know that there are other companies that are on the brink. Therefore, it is a matter of urgency. Again, I ask the whole Assembly—and I ask Labour AMs to press for this within their party—to ensure that we have positive action to restore the pound to a competitive level. I will not repeat my arguments in detail. However, up until now, we have not seen a single clear step in that direction. We must demand that on behalf of the people whom we represent. As I said in Plenary a few weeks ago, you do not blame the tiger for behaving like a tiger when it kills a man. You blame the head of the village for neglecting the defences. We must ensure that the conditions that gave Corus the excuse, if you like, to take this step are remedied.
Galwasom ar y Llywodraeth i gymryd camau i adfer y bunt i gyfradd gyfnewid gystadleuol, oherwydd bob tro y dywedwn fod gennym y gweithfeydd dur mwyaf cynhyrchiol, a oedd yn effeithlon ac a ddefnyddiodd y technolegau mwyaf modern, awgrymwn fod rhyw ffactor arall sydd yn berthnasol. Ni ellir gwadu bod allforio yng nghyd-destun cyfradd gyfnewid afreal yn ffactor y mae’n rhaid inni fynd i’r afael ag ef. Yr wyf fi, a llawer o bobl yma, yn gwybod bod dyfodol llawer o gwmnïau eraill yn y fantol. Felly, mater o frys ydyw. Unwaith eto, gofynnaf i’r Cynulliad cyfan—a gofynnaf i ASau Llafur bwyso am hyn o fewn eu plaid—sicrhau y gweithredwn yn gadarnhaol i adfer y bunt i lefel gystadleuol. Nid ailadroddaf fy nadleuon yn fanwl. Fodd bynnag, hyd yma, ni welsom un cam clir i’r cyfeiriad hwnnw. Rhaid inni fynnu hynny ar ran y bobl a gynrychiolwn. Fel y dywedais mewn Cyfarfod Llawn ychydig wythnosau yn ôl, ni feiwch y teigr am ymddwyn fel teigr pan fydd yn lladd dyn. Rhowch fai ar bennaeth y pentref am esgeuluso’r amddiffyniadau. Rhaid inni sicrhau yr unionir yr amodau a roddodd yr esgus i Corus, os mynnwch, gymryd y cam hwn.
The most important question is what the Assembly can do. I pay tribute to the Assembly’s work over the last month. The package that it produced for Corus was the most that could be done in the short term. However, it was small compared to the size of the problem that had to be tackled. What can the Assembly do to ensure that Ebbw Vale’s future is optimistic and bright? We cannot accept the destruction of communities. We have a statutory commitment to sustainable development, part of which is to sustain the life of communities. The Assembly can take a series of steps. One that has been discussed many times, and which remains in the distance, is giving high priority to establishing a modern, efficient railway link between Ebbw Vale and Cardiff. Let us give it top priority.
Y cwestiwn pwysicaf yw beth gall y Cynulliad ei wneud. Talaf deyrnged i waith y Cynulliad dros y mis diwethaf. Y pecyn a greodd ar gyfer Corus oedd y peth mwyaf a allai fod wedi’i wneud yn y tymor byr. Fodd bynnag, yr oedd yn fach o’i gymharu â maint y broblem yr oedd yn rhaid mynd i’r afael â hi. Beth all y Cynulliad ei wneud i sicrhau bod dyfodol Glynebwy yn un optimistaidd a disglair? Ni allwn dderbyn chwalfa cymunedau. Mae ymrwymiad statudol gennym i ddatblygu cynaliadwy, y mae rhan o hynny yn cynnwys cynnal bywyd cymunedau. Gall y Cynulliad gymryd cyfres o gamau. Un cam a drafodwyd lawer gwaith, ac sydd yn bell i ffwrdd o hyd, yw rhoi blaenoriaeth uchel i sefydlu cyswllt rheilffordd modern, effeithlon rhwng Glynebwy a Chaerdydd. Gadewch inni roi’r flaenoriaeth uchaf iddo.
Later today, we will hear about the restructuring of the health service on an all-Wales basis. During the Assembly elections, Plaid Cymru gave a keynote speech in Tredegar, which is the birthplace of Aneurin Bevan and the national health service. We now press with more urgency for a proposal that we made at that time. There is no reason why our administration in Wales should be centred in Cardiff. Not only do we need to attract a large number of jobs to the heads of the Valleys, but to attract a wide range of quality jobs. We need those jobs for the young people of Tredegar. All but one of my school classmates had to leave the area because they were too qualified to return to the home that they loved and wanted to serve. If we are to have an all-Wales administration for the NHS, I suggest that Tredegar, or anywhere else in that region, would be an appropriate location for it. That should set a pattern for ensuring that the jobs that we control are in the areas of Wales where they are needed.
Yn ddiweddarach heddiw, clywn am y gwaith o ailstrwythuro’r gwasanaeth iechyd ar sail Cymru gyfan. Yn ystod etholiadau’r Cynulliad, rhoddodd Plaid Cymru brif araith yn Nhredegar, sef man geni Aneurin Bevan a’r gwasanaeth iechyd gwladol. Pwyswn yn awr fel mater o frys am gynnig a wnaethom y pryd hwnnw. Nid oes rheswm pam y dylai ein gweinyddiaeth yng Nghymru gael ei lleoli yng Nghaerdydd. Nid yn unig mae angen inni ddenu nifer fawr o swyddi i flaenau’r Cymoedd, ond mae angen denu amrywiaeth eang o swyddi o safon. Mae angen y swyddi hynny arnom ar gyfer pobl ifanc Tredegar. Bu’n rhaid i bawb heblaw un o’m ffrindiau ysgol adael yr ardal oherwydd eu bod yn rhy gymwys i ddychwelyd i’r cartref a garent a’r ardal yr oeddent am ei gwasanaethu. Os bwriadwn gael gweinyddiaeth Cymru gyfan ar gyfer yr NHS, awgrymaf y byddai Tredegar, neu unrhyw le arall yn yr ardal honno, yn lleoliad priodol iddi. Dylai hynny osod patrwm i sicrhau y lleolir y swyddi a reolwn yn yr ardaloedd o Gymru lle y mae eu hangen.
I stress the importance of the Assembly’s economic strategy, as I am afraid that the press, with its usual shorthand, has distorted this. Speaking for Plaid Cymru, it is not true that it has been rejected. However, we feel that it must be good and able to tackle the scale of the problem that we face. One feature for which we are pressing is the need for regional targets in economic development. I am sure that that will be agreed. It is not good enough to say that the Assembly will increase Wales’s gross domestic product per capita to 90 per cent of the average. It is essential—and this is a point under discussion—that we have in our economic strategy the ability to locate the problem and tackle it in a way that it has never been tackled before. Thank God, we have the Assembly here to do that.
Pwysleisiaf bwysigrwydd strategaeth economaidd y Cynulliad, gan fy mod yn ofni bod y wasg wedi gwyrdroi hyn, gyda’i llaw-fer arferol. A siarad ar ran Plaid Cymru, nid yw’n wir ei bod wedi’i gwrthod. Fodd bynnag, yr ydym o’r farn bod yn rhaid iddi fod yn dda a bod yn rhaid iddi allu mynd i’r afael â maint y broblem a wynebwn. Un nodwedd y pwyswn amdani yw’r angen am dargedau rhanbarthol o ran datblygu economaidd. Yr wyf yn siŵr y cytunir ar hynny. Nid yw’n ddigon da dweud y cynydda’r Cynulliad gynnyrch mewnwladol crynswth Cymru y pen i 90 y cant o’r cyfartaledd. Mae’n hanfodol—a dyna’r pwynt o dan drafodaeth—bod gennym yn ein strategaeth economaidd y gallu i ddod o hyd i’r broblem a mynd i’r afael â hi mewn ffordd nad aethpwyd i’r afael â hi fel hyn o’r blaen. Diolch i Dduw, mae’r Cynulliad gennym yma i wneud hynny.
Rhodri mentioned that, in the past, the Government had responsibility for the steel industry. I ask this important final question, not only to the Government in Cardiff, but to the UK Government. Have you completely ruled out the role of the state in the strategic commanding heights of our economy? As I have mentioned before, I am probably the only person here who has spoken to Aneurin Bevan. That was one of his phrases. Although over a vast range of sectors, a free, competitive industry may well be an efficient way of serving the public, there are certain strategic elements of an economy that you allow to be destroyed by the decision of one board at your peril. There are many aspects to this. It requires a challenge as big as that we face today that, rather than suffer the death of a hundred cuts, we focus our minds on what we can and must do.
Crybwyllodd Rhodri y bu’r Llywodraeth yn gyfrifol am y diwydiant dur yn y gorffennol. Gofynnaf y cwestiwn olaf pwysig hwn, nid yn unig i’r Llywodraeth yng Nghaerdydd, ond i Lywodraeth y DU. A ydych wedi diystyru’n llwyr rôl y wladwriaeth yn uchelfannau strategol ein heconomi? Fel y crybwyllais o’r blaen, mae’n debyg mai fi yw’r unig berson yma a siaradodd ag Aneirin Bevan. Dyna un o’i ymadroddion ef. Er y gallai diwydiant rhydd, cystadleuol fod yn ffordd effeithlon o wasanaethu’r cyhoedd dros amrywiaeth eang o sectorau, mae rhai elfennau strategol o economi y caniatewch i benderfyniad un bwrdd eu dinistrio ar berygl i chi eich hun. Mae sawl agwedd ar hyn. Mae’n gofyn am her mor fawr â’r un a wynebwn heddiw ein bod, yn hytrach na dioddef marwolaeth cant o doriadau, yn canolbwyntio ar yr hyn y gallwn ei wneud ac y mae’n rhaid inni i wneud.
We all agree that today is a sad day for Wales. It is a tragedy, as Nick Bourne said earlier, for the workers and their families, who I am sure are foremost in our minds today. We must not necessarily look to apportion blame, but we know where it lies today. Blame lies, as Peter Law said, firmly with Corus. This decision was taken by a multinational company in response to its merger problems, to what its shareholders required, and to what the financial markets required of it as a company. We must have no illusions about this. This is the price of globalisation, and it is a high price for the workers of Wales.
Cytuna pob un ohonom fod heddiw yn ddiwrnod trist i Gymru. Mae’n drasiedi, fel y dywedodd Nick Bourne yn gynharach, i’r gweithwyr a’u teuluoedd, sydd, yr wyf yn siŵr flaenaf yn ein meddyliau heddiw. Ni ddylem o reidrwydd geisio beio rhywun, ond heddiw gwyddom ar bwy y mae’r bai. Fel y dywedodd Peter Law, ar Corus yn bendant y mae’r bai. Gwnaethpwyd y penderfyniad hwn gan gwmni rhyngwladol mewn ymateb i’w broblemau uno, i’r hyn yr oedd ei gyfranddalwyr ei angen, ac i’r hyn yr oedd y marchnadoedd ariannol am iddo ei wneud fel cwmni. Rhaid inni beidio â chael ein twyllo ynglŷn â hyn. Dyma bris globaleiddio, ac mae’n bris uchel ar gyfer gweithwyr Cymru.
Steel, as Phil said, is in everybody’s blood in Wales. As a child, I lived opposite a small steelworks in Gowerton. Many of the children with whom I went to school had parents who worked there, or worked in the mines to which Peter Law referred. That was the heart of Wales. We only have to consider what we have seen today: the full forces of capitalism displayed at their best, taking on the workers, only acknowledging their shareholders and doing what is right for their boards.
Mae dur, fel y dywedodd Phil, yng ngwaed pawb yng Nghymru. Yn blentyn, yr oeddwn yn byw gyferbyn â gwaith dur bach yn Nhre-gŵyr. Yr oedd gan lawer o’r plant yr oeddwn yn mynd i’r ysgol â hwy rieni a weithiai yno, neu a weithiai yn y pyllau glo y cyfeiriodd Peter Law atynt. Dyna oedd calon Cymru. Nid oes ond rhaid inni ystyried yr hyn a welsom heddiw: grymoedd llawn cyfalafiaeth ar eu gorau, yn herio’r gweithwyr, dim ond yn cydnabod eu cyfranddalwyr ac yn gwneud yr hyn sydd yn iawn i’w byrddau hwy.
My heart goes out today particularly to the members of my own constituency. The Bryngwyn plant in Gorseinon will close down after years of loyal production to the company. The workers there have adopted every new work practice and have looked at every aspect of productivity. When I consider the 130 jobs lost at Bryngwyn, I think of what happened in Valeo last week, and I multiply the figure against jobs in the community. You are not just talking about the 130 jobs lost today in steel or the 300-odd jobs lost in Valeo. You multiply that figure by four and that is the type of devastating effect that it will have on local economies.
Cydymdeimlaf heddiw yn arbennig ag aelodau fy etholaeth i. Bydd gwaith Bryngwyn yng Ngorseinon yn cau ar ôl blynyddoedd o gynhyrchu teyrngar i’r cwmni. Mae’r gweithwyr yno wedi mabwysiadu pob arfer gwaith newydd ac wedi edrych ar bob agwedd ar gynhyrchiant. Pan ystyriaf y 130 o swyddi a gollwyd ym Mryngwyn, meddyliaf am yr hyn a ddigwyddodd yn Valeo yr wythnos diwethaf, a lluosaf y ffigur yn erbyn y swyddi yn y gymuned. Nid dim ond sôn am y 130 o swyddi a gollwyd heddiw yn y diwydiant dur yr ydych na’r 300 o swyddi neu oddeutu hynny a gollir yn Valeo. Lluoswch y ffigur hwnnw â phedwar a dyna’r math o effaith ddinistriol a gaiff ar economïau lleol.
There are several issues on which we need to focus our minds. I am concerned that when we talk about steel we recognise that no nation can allow its steel production to disappear. We must consider why we require steel. I do not want to go to war, but we must consider the practical side, that if we went to war, what about the production of steel? We must consider all these issues carefully in the context of the UK economy and what is required.
Mae sawl mater y mae’n rhaid inni ganolbwyntio arnynt. Yr wyf yn pryderu ein bod, pan soniwn am ddur, yn cydnabod na all unrhyw genedl ganiatáu i’w chynhyrchiant dur ddiflannu. Rhaid inni ystyried pam bod angen dur arnom. Nid wyf am fynd i ryfel, ond rhaid inni ystyried yr ochr ymarferol, sef pe baem yn mynd i ryfel, beth am gynhyrchiant dur? Rhaid inni ystyried yr holl faterion hyn yn ofalus yng nghyd-destun economi’r DU a’r hyn sydd ei angen.
I am grateful to you for raising the basic, fundamental question of the strategic importance of the steel industry in these islands. In those circumstances, do you not believe that it is incumbent on the Westminster Government to consider, as one option, as Phil Williams raised, the renationalisation of the steel industry to ensure that it is not left in the hands of these fly-by-night corporations that may crumble overnight?
Yr wyf yn ddiolchgar ichi am godi’r cwestiwn elfennol, sylfaenol am bwysigrwydd strategol y diwydiant dur yn yr ynysoedd hyn. O dan yr amgylchiadau hynny, oni chredwch fod rheidrwydd ar Lywodraeth San Steffan i ystyried, fel un opsiwn, fel y codwyd gan Phil Williams, ailwladoli’r diwydiant dur i sicrhau na chaiff ei adael yn nwylo’r corfforaethau amheus hyn a allai chwalu dros nos?
I am speaking very much as an Assembly Member today. I understand your point, because there are many feelings about what we require from steel and what a national resource it is in many circumstances.
Siaradaf heddiw yn bennaf fel Aelod o’r Cynulliad. Deallaf eich pwynt, gan fod llawer o deimladau ynglŷn â’r hyn yr ydym am i ddur ei ddarparu a’i fod yn adnodd cenedlaethol mewn llawer o amgylchiadau.
Peter Law also spoke about fighting on. He spoke in particular about Ebbw Vale—how the people there would not want to give way, and how they would want to continue production there. There are many examples in history that might give them hope. I think that it was in 1945 that the Americans tried to take over the Krupps steelworks. They tried to take all the machinery out, but the German workers said ‘no, we will carry on with steel production’. We only need to consider the Gdansk shipyards where workers carried on producing what they wanted to produce. It is a matter for workers as to what they want to do.
Soniodd Peter Law hefyd am barhau i frwydro. Soniodd yn arbennig am Lynebwy—ac na fyddai’r bobl yno am ildio, a sut y byddent am barhau i gynhyrchu yno. Mae llawer o enghreifftiau mewn hanes a allai roi gobaith iddynt. Credaf mai yn 1945 y ceisiodd yr Americanwyr feddiannu gwaith dur Krupps. Ceisiasant dynnu’r holl beiriannau allan, ond dywedodd y gweithwyr Almaenig ‘na, fe barhawn i gynhyrchu dur’. Rhaid inni ond ystyried ierdydd llongau Gdansk lle y parhaodd y gweithwyr i gynhyrchu yr hyn yr oeddent yn dymuno ei gynhyrchu. Mater i’r gweithwyr yw penderfynu beth y maent am ei wneud.
I declare an interest as a member of one of the unions that will be involved in counselling its members, trying to allow them to get to grips with their future. The trouble is, where is their future in some areas across Wales? It is easy for us to make points and say what we should do tomorrow. In terms of tomorrow, what we have done already has shown that we wanted to do something as a National Assembly, and that the UK Government wanted to do something, but Corus just wanted to close the door on us. When Brian Moffat took over and decided that he was going to make that merger work, that was the death knell for steel production across Wales.
Datganaf fuddiant fel aelod o un o’r undebau a fydd yn gysylltiedig â chynghori ei aelodau, a cheisio caniatáu iddynt ymdopi â’u dyfodol. Y drafferth yw, ble mae eu dyfodol mewn rhai ardaloedd ledled Cymru? Mae’n hawdd inni wneud pwyntiau a dweud beth y dylem ei wneud yfory. Yn nhermau yfory, mae’r hyn a wnaethom eisoes wedi dangos ein bod yn dymuno gwneud rhywbeth fel Cynulliad Cenedlaethol, a bod Llywodraeth y DU yn dymuno gwneud rhywbeth, ond y cyfan yr oedd Corus yn dymuno ei wneud oedd cau’r drws arnom. Pan gymerodd Brian Moffat yr awenau a phenderfynu ei fod yn mynd i wneud i’r uno hwnnw weithio, dyna oedd dechrau’r diwedd o ran cynhyrchu dur ledled Cymru.
I am sure that all our thoughts are with the families today. Tomorrow, we must concentrate on what we can do to attract high quality jobs, we must look at the training aspects and get a real Welsh solution to this issue. If the National Assembly and this democratic structure are to mean something, we must see what we can do and how we can work together in this Chamber to look for a better future for those affected.
Yr wyf yn siŵr ein bod yn meddwl am y teuluoedd heddiw. Yfory, rhaid inni ganolbwyntio ar yr hyn y gallwn ei wneud i ddenu swyddi o ansawdd uchel, rhaid inni edrych ar yr agweddau hyfforddi a chanfod ateb gwir Gymreig i’r mater hwn. Er mwyn i’r Cynulliad Cenedlaethol a’r strwythur democrataidd hwn olygu rhywbeth, rhaid inni weld beth y gallwn ei wneud a sut y gallwn gyd-weithio yn y Siambr hon i edrych am well dyfodol i’r rheini yr effeithiwyd arnynt.
Members have said several times in this Chamber this morning that this is a sad day for the steel-making industry and a devastating one for the communities of Newport, Ebbw Vale, Shotton and Bryngwyn. No truer words have been spoken in this Chamber. Three thousand jobs, and a further 3,000 contractual employees are to be lost in the steel-making industry in Wales. A further 3,000 will be lost across the United Kingdom. Some of those will also be in Wales, in Corus’s engineering and construction operations.
Mae’r Aelodau wedi dweud nifer o weithiau yn y Siambr hon y bore yma bod hwn yn ddiwrnod trist i’r diwydiant cynhyrchu dur ac yn un dinistriol i gymunedau Casnewydd, Glynebwy, Shotton a Bryngwyn. Ni fu geiriau erioed mor wir yn y Siambr hon. Caiff 3,000 o swyddi, a 3,000 arall o gyflogeion cytundebol eu colli yn y diwydiant cynhyrchu dur yng Nghymru. Collir 3,000 arall ledled y Deyrnas Unedig. Bydd rhai o’r rheini hefyd yng Nghymru, yng ngweithrediadau peirianyddol ac adeiladu Corus.
We have had announcements this week of 337 jobs lost at Valeo in Gorseinon, 550 jobs in Dairy Crest in Carmarthen and Cardiff, and now 6,000—including the contractual employees—in steel making. Two thousand jobs were lost in the last quarter of last year in the electronics industry in Wales. Sadly, processing and manufacturing are in severe difficulty—I used the phrase ‘meltdown’ recently in this Chamber.
Cyhoeddwyd yr wythnos hon bod 337 o swyddi wedi eu colli yn Valeo yng Ngorseinon, 550 o swyddi yn Dairy Crest yng Nghaerfyrddin a Chaerdydd, ac yn awr 6,000—gan gynnwys y cyflogeion cytundebol—yn y diwydiant dur. Collwyd 2,000 o swyddi yn chwarter olaf y llynedd yn y diwydiant electroneg yng Nghymru. Yn anffodus, mae’r diwydiannau prosesu a gweithgynhyrchu mewn anhawster dybryd—defnyddiais yr ymadrodd ‘diflaniad’ yn ddiweddar yn y Siambr hon.
Corus should be criticised for the way that it has operated and handled these redundancies over recent months. However, it is not appropriate to blame it for everything. The lack of communication is indefensible. However, we cannot escape—and we heard attacks on the capitalist society—the fact that every business needs to react to its economic environment. Many times I have sought to highlight the impact that regulation and taxes have on industry, and on manufacturing in particular. Unfortunately, today’s announcement is the ultimate example.
Dylid beirniadu Corus am y ffordd y gweithredodd ac yr ymdriniodd â’r diswyddiadau hyn dros y misoedd diwethaf. Fodd bynnag, nid yw’n briodol ei feio am bopeth. Ni ellir cyfiawnhau’r diffyg cyfathrebu. Fodd bynnag, ni allwn ddianc—a chlywsom ymosodiadau ar y gymdeithas gyfalafol—rhag y ffaith bod angen i bob busnes ymateb i’w amgylchedd economaidd. Ar sawl achlysur ceisiais amlygu’r effaith a gaiff rheoleiddio a threthi ar ddiwydiant, ac ar weithgynhyrchu yn arbennig. Yn anffodus, cyhoeddiad heddiw yw’r enghraifft orau o hyn.
In a recent meeting, and in its statement today, Corus’s management highlighted the increased costs of taxes on transport, the falling euro and increased regulation. I hope that Ministers in Cardiff and Westminster realise that they cannot raise taxes by £5 billion on business and impose regulations without jobs being lost. A few weeks ago, in this Chamber, I listed 15 pieces of such legislation passed in the last two years. There was much cheering and joking then. The debate was not as serious as today’s. I hope that those pieces of legislation will be reflected upon and analysis carried out to identify those that contributed to today’s devastating blow. We must always be aware of these stealth taxes. That is the reality of the situation that led to this knockout blow to all these communities.
Mewn cyfarfod yn ddiweddar, ac yn ei ddatganiad heddiw, amlygodd bwrdd rheoli Corus gostau cynyddol y trethi ar drafnidiaeth, yr ewro sydd yn gostwng a gwell rheoleiddio. Gobeithiaf fod y Gweinidogion yng Nghaerdydd a San Steffan yn sylweddoli na allant godi trethi £5 biliwn ar fusnesau a phennu rheoliadau heb i swyddi gael eu colli. Ychydig wythnosau yn ôl, yn y Siambr hon, rhestrais 15 darn o ddeddfwriaeth o’r fath a basiwyd yn y ddwy flynedd diwethaf. Bu llawer o floeddio a chellwair bryd hynny. Nid oedd y ddadl mor ddifrifol ag un heddiw. Gobeithiaf yr ystyrir y darnau hynny o ddeddfwriaeth ac y cânt eu dadansoddi er mwyn nodi’r rheini a gyfrannodd at yr ergyd ddinistriol heddiw. Rhaid inni fod yn ymwybodol bob amser o’r trethi llechwraidd hyn. Dyna realiti’r sefyllfa a arweiniodd at yr ergyd drom hon i’r holl gymunedau hyn.
Before my election to the National Assembly, I worked for a major high-street bank. As a business development consultant, I visited branches all over south Wales. In Newport, Ebbw Vale and Port Talbot it seemed that almost every other customer either worked in the steelworks, or was linked to them in some way.
Cyn fy ethol i’r Cynulliad Cenedlaethol, gweithiais i un o brif fanciau’r stryd fawr. Fel ymgynghorydd datblygu busnesau, ymwelais â changhennau ledled de Cymru. Yng Nghasnewydd, Glynebwy a Phort Talbot ymddangosai fod bron bob yn ail gwsmer naill ai wedi gweithio yn y gweithfeydd dur, neu yn gysylltiedig â’r diwydiant mewn rhyw ffordd.
On a personal level, my father works as a welder for Corus. He has been fortunate. He has been there for 30 years. He survived the cuts in the 1980s and he is nearing retirement. He has told me often of young apprentices joining and the jokes that they play. He also tells me of their mortgages and how they are possibly the first in their families to buy their own homes. He tells me of other young employees who are raising families and looking forward to the things that we all enjoy in life.
Ar lefel bersonol, gweithia fy nhad fel weldiwr i Corus. Bu’n ffodus. Mae wedi bod yno ers 30 mlynedd. Goroesodd y toriadau yn y 1980au a bydd yn ymddeol cyn bo hir. Soniodd wrthyf yn aml am brentisiaid ifanc yn ymuno â hwy a’r hwyl yr oeddent yn ei gael. Dywed wrthyf hefyd am eu morgeisi ac mai hwy o bosibl yw’r cyntaf o blith eu teuluoedd i brynu eu cartrefi eu hunain. Dywed wrthyf am gyflogeion ifanc eraill sydd yn magu teuluoedd ac yn edrych ymlaen at y pethau y mae pob un ohonom yn eu mwynhau mewn bywyd.
Every Assembly Member should be and is thinking about these people today. These are the people who depend on the Government to create the conditions in which industry can thrive, depend on plans from the Government, actions from the Assembly and on a contingency plan that is so desperately needed. A package of £25 million was recently reported to have been offered as a sweetener to Corus. I fear that no matter how much money was thrown at Corus, the outcome was almost inevitable. We discussed earlier the former nationalised industry, which was, at one time, receiving £1 million a week in subsidies from the taxpayer. There was restructuring in the 1980s, it was privatised and it became a successful multinational company. Sadly, it had to react to the economic circumstances and conditions in which it finds itself. Today is not for petty party politics. However, yesterday the Economic Development Committee was reviewing the national economic development strategy and all parties at the meeting raised concerns about the action that should be included in that document. I appeal to the Deputy First Minister to reflect on the views of the Economic Development Committee. These employees need action and an economic development strategy that will work, and they expect us to have a strategy that will offer them a hope for the future.
Dylai, ac y mae, pob Aelod o’r Cynulliad yn meddwl am y bobl hyn heddiw. Dyma’r bobl sydd yn dibynnu ar y Llywodraeth i greu’r amodau y gall diwydiant ffynnu ynddynt, sydd yn dibynnu ar gynlluniau’r Llywodraeth, gweithrediadau’r Cynulliad a chynllun wrth gefn sydd ei angen yn ddirfawr. Yn ddiweddar, cofnodwyd bod pecyn o £25 miliwn wedi ei gynnig i iro llaw Corus. Ofnaf waeth faint o arian a gâi ei daflu at Corus, fod y canlyniad bron yn anochel. Trafodasom yn gynharach y cyn ddiwydiant a wladolwyd a gâi, ar un adeg, £1 miliwn yr wythnos mewn cymorthdaliadau gan y trethdalwr. Bu ailstrwythuro yn yr 1980au, fe’i preifateiddiwyd a daeth yn gwmni amlgenedlaethol llwyddiannus. Yn anffodus, bu’n rhaid iddo ymateb i’r amgylchiadau a’r amodau economaidd sydd yn ei wynebu heddiw. Nid ydym yn ymwneud heddiw â mân wleidyddiaeth bleidiol. Fodd bynnag, ddoe bu’r Pwyllgor Datblygu Economaidd yn adolygu’r strategaeth datblygu economaidd genedlaethol a chododd pob plaid yn y cyfarfod bryderon am y camau y dylid eu cynnwys yn y ddogfen honno. Ymbiliaf ar y Dirprwy Brif Weinidog i ystyried safbwyntiau’r Pwyllgor Datblygu Economaidd. Mae angen i’r cyflogeion hyn weld camau’n cael eu cymryd a strategaeth datblygu economaidd a fydd yn gweithio, a disgwyliant inni gael strategaeth a fydd yn cynnig gobaith iddynt am y dyfodol.
Renationalising the steel industry was mentioned by Dafydd Wigley yesterday at the Economic Development Committee and by Phil Williams in today’s debate. We must be realistic in whatever plan we propose in seeking to save these jobs and generate new jobs. We must appreciate that in whatever strategies and policies that are introduced by the National Assembly and the Westminster Government we must do whatever we can to facilitate business. The most effective way of doing so is by helping them to cut the fixed cost base, be it in business rates, corporation tax or whatever else. I appeal to the Deputy First Minister, who is responsible for economic development, and to the First Minister, to look again at the local levy on business rates because this is more than a warning shot. This has devastated many communities in south Wales.
Soniwyd am ailwladoli’r diwydiant dur gan Dafydd Wigley yn y Pwyllgor Datblygu Economaidd ddoe a chan Phil Williams yn nadl heddiw. Rhaid inni fod yn realistig ym mha bynnag gynllun a gynigiwn er mwyn ceisio arbed y swyddi hynny a chynhyrchu swyddi newydd. Rhaid inni werthfawrogi, beth bynnag fo’r strategaethau a’r polisïau a gyflwynir gan y Cynulliad Cenedlaethol a chan Lywodraeth San Steffan, bod yn rhaid inni wneud yr hyn a allwn i hwyluso busnes. Y ffordd fwyaf effeithiol o wneud hynny yw eu helpu i dorri’r sylfaen gost sefydlog, boed hynny mewn ardrethi busnes, treth gorfforaeth neu beth bynnag arall. Ymbiliaf ar y Dirprwy Brif Weinidog, sydd yn gyfrifol am ddatblygu economaidd, ac ar y Prif Weinidog, i edrych eto ar yr ardoll leol ar ardrethi busnes oherwydd mae hwn yn fwy na rhybudd. Mae hyn wedi dinistro llawer o gymunedau yn ne Cymru.
Flintshire, the most northern part of this country, despite its perceived affluence has also received an undeserved body blow and is in deep mourning over the loss of 320 jobs. My deepest sympathy naturally goes to Peter Law and his Ebbw Vale constituents and to all the decimated plants throughout Wales. What a sad day this is in the annals of the history of this country. I speak also for Tom Middlehurst, who is not in the Chamber but is properly up in his constituency, standing shoulder to shoulder with unions and workforce, offering his solidarity and what comfort he can in this dreadful hour.
Mae Sir y Fflint, y rhan fwyaf gogleddol o’r wlad hon, er gwaethaf ei chyfoeth honedig, hefyd wedi dioddef ergyd drom anhaeddiannol ac mae’n galaru’n ddwys o ganlyniad i golli 320 o swyddi. Yn naturiol, cydymdeimlaf fwyaf â Peter Law a’i etholwyr yng Nglynebwy ac â phob gwaith a ddinistriwyd ledled Cymru. Mae hwn yn ddiwrnod trist yn hanes y wlad hon. Siaradaf hefyd ar ran Tom Middlehurst, nad yw yn y Siambr ond sydd yn gywir yn ei etholaeth, yn sefyll ochr yn ochr ag undebau a’r gweithlu, gan gynnig ei gefnogaeth a pha bynnag gysur y gall ei gynnig yn yr awr ofnadwy hon.
The steel-making industry has joined together all parts of Wales. South Wales workers moved up to north Wales all those years ago to bring the expertise needed to set up Shotton, where there is now a modern world-force industry, shaken and bruised by these cuts. How many times have I overtaken a steel lorry as it trundles its way north and south with its valuable cargo? Steel has been the lifeblood of this country. This is truly a shocking day. Much of the Corus publicity has focused on south Wales and Llanwern. It has wrongly been said that Shotton has been forgotten in the debate and the fight. This is not true. Shotton has not been ignored. We fought to save all jobs throughout Wales, particularly in Shotton. I feel so upset for Rhodri Morgan, that his super-human efforts have been so cynically thrown aside. It is sad that such work has been rejected.
Mae’r diwydiant cynhyrchu dur wedi dod â phob rhan o Gymru ynghyd. Symudodd gweithwyr de Cymru i ogledd Cymru flynyddoedd lawer yn ôl i gynnig yr arbenigedd yr oedd ei angen i sefydlu Shotton, lle ceir bellach ddiwydiant modern â gweithlu byd eang, a gafodd ei ysgwyd a’i gleisio gan y toriadau hyn. Sawl gwaith yr wyf wedi goddiweddyd lori ddur wrth iddi yrru i’r gogledd ac i’r de gyda’i chargo gwerthfawr? Dur oedd anadl einioes y wlad hon. Mae hwn yn ddiwrnod gwirioneddol ysgytwol. Canolbwyntiodd llawer o’r cyhoeddusrwydd a gafodd Corus ar dde Cymru a Llanwern. Dywedwyd ar gam bod Shotton wedi ei esgeuluso yn y ddadl ac yn y frwydr. Nid yw hyn yn wir. Nid anwybyddwyd Shotton. Brwydrasom i arbed yr holl swyddi ledled Cymru, yn arbennig yn Shotton. Teimlaf dros Rhodri Morgan, fod ei ymdrechion goruwchddynol wedi eu bwrw o’r neilltu mor sinigaidd. Mae’n drist bod y cyfryw waith wedi ei wrthod.
There is a commitment in north Wales and in the Assembly to ensure that Shotton will not be forgotten when Euro funding and training packages are prepared to rebuild shattered lives. I will work tirelessly with Tom and National Assembly officials through the Economic Development Committee to ensure that the misery the redundancies will cause is minimised and that some good can come out of this national tragedy.
Mae ymrwymiad yng ngogledd Cymru ac yn y Cynulliad i sicrhau nad anghofir am Shotton pan gaiff arian a phecynnau hyfforddi Ewropeaidd eu paratoi i ailadeiladu bywydau a chwalwyd. Gweithiaf yn ddiflino gyda Tom a swyddogion y Cynulliad Cenedlaethol drwy gyfrwng y Pwyllgor Datblygu Economaidd i sicrhau y cedwir y dioddefaint y bydd y diswyddiadau yn ei achosi cyn lleied â phosibl ac y gall rhywfaint o ddaioni ddeillio o’r drasiedi genedlaethol hon.
It is a sad fact that this appalling news has brought together all parts of Wales to stand together, defiant and unbowed. I, together with this Government, will not stand idly by and allow even further insult and misery to be heaped upon our deceived and demeaned workforce. I am emotional about this issue because any job loss is sad. North and south will stand together as partners and we will have the will to survive and move forward.
Mae’n ffaith drist bod y newyddion erchyll hwn wedi dwyn pob rhan o Gymru ynghyd i sefyll gyda’i gilydd, yn herfeiddiol a phenuchel. Ni wnaf i, ynghyd â’r Llywodraeth hon, sefyll yn segur a chaniatáu i hyd yn oed ragor o sarhad a diflastod gael eu pentyrru ar ein gweithlu a dwyllwyd ac a ddiraddiwyd. Teimlaf yn emosiynol ynglŷn â’r mater hwn oherwydd mae colli unrhyw swydd yn drist. Saif y gogledd a’r de gyda’i gilydd fel partneriaid a bydd yr ewyllys gennym i oroesi a symud ymlaen.
I echo Alison’s sentiments because this will affect Shotton. The 319 jobs lost in the steelworks does not reflect the other jobs that will be lost in contractor works and the affect on the area. I was living in the north-east of England when Consett steelworks closed. I vividly remember the devastating effect on the community. I have lived in north Wales long enough to know the effect that the closure of the Brymbo steelworks has had on that community. Many years have not been able to replace what has been lost with the closure of those works.
Adleisiaf deimladau Alison oherwydd bydd hyn yn effeithio ar Shotton. Nid yw’r 319 o swyddi a gollwyd yn y gwaith dur yn adlewyrchu’r swyddi eraill a gollir mewn gwaith contractwyr a’r effaith ar yr ardal. Yr oeddwn yn byw yng ngogledd-ddwyrain Lloegr pan gaeodd gwaith dur Consett. Cofiaf yn glir yr effaith ddinistriol ar y gymuned. Yr wyf wedi byw yng ngogledd Cymru yn ddigon hir i wybod yr effaith a gafodd cau gwaith dur Brymbo ar y gymuned honno. Nid yw treigl y blynyddoedd wedi gallu ailgreu yr hyn a gollwyd pan gaeodd y gwaith hwnnw.
I draw Members’ attention to a touch of irony. Last week in The Wrexham Advertiser, Corus included a full-page advertisement under the heading ‘Corus caring for the environment and the community’. It state:
Tynnaf sylw’r Aelodau at dinc o eironi. Yr wythnos diwethaf yn The Wrexham Advertiser, cynhwysodd Corus hysbyseb tudalen llawn o dan y pennawd ‘Corus caring for the environment and the community’. Nodai:
‘Despite the trading difficulties experienced through a very strong pound and worldwide over-production of steel, the Corus commitment to employees’ welfare and the continuous improvement of the environment in which they, their families and the community work and live has never wavered’.
That was Corus’s commitment to its workforce and communities. It is very ironic. It ends with the words ‘the future in metal’.
Dyna oedd ymrwymiad Corus i’w weithlu a’r cymunedau. Mae’n eironig iawn. Daw i ben gyda’r geiriau ‘the future in metal’.
Many Members have talked today about the difficulties in dealing with a multinational company and how Corus failed to discuss its plans with anybody. However, I remember that Phil Williams said recently in this Chamber that Corus was only acting as you would expect any large company to act. Its responsibility is ultimately to its shareholders, not to its workers or the communities that depend on it. No matter how much we may think that such companies have a duty to workers and the community, we have seen today what can happen when you lose control of a major national asset to a large multinational company. John Griffiths stressed that vividly in his speech.
Soniodd llawer o’r Aelodau heddiw am yr anawsterau wrth ymdrin â chwmni rhynglwadol a sut y methodd Corus â thrafod ei gynlluniau gydag unrhyw un. Fodd bynnag, cofiaf i Phil Williams ddweud yn ddiweddar yn y Siambr hon fod Corus ond yn gweithredu fel y byddech yn disgwyl i unrhyw gwmni mawr weithredu. Mae’n atebol yn y pen draw i’w gyfranddalwyr, nid i’w weithwyr na’r cymunedau sydd yn dibynnu arno. Waeth faint y credwn bod gan gwmnïau o’r fath ddyletswydd i’w gweithwyr a’r gymuned, gwelsom heddiw beth a all ddigwydd pan gollwch reolaeth ar ased cenedlaethol o bwys i gwmni rhyngwladol mawr. Pwysleisiodd John Griffiths hynny’n glir iawn yn ei araith.
We must learn from this bitter lesson. We must look at all of our policies. I am concerned about the race to use the private finance initiative. We must stop now before we allow more of our national assets to leave democratic control and go into the control of big business. There is also a desperate need to introduce a solid and constructive economic development policy, which many Members have echoed this morning. We need to act. What is the Deputy First Minister and Minister for Economic Development doing about this? In Sunderland, detailed plans are in place should the Nissan plant close. We have been hearing rumours about the Corus closure for a long time. Where are the detailed plans for Wales? Why has this Government turned its back on us?
Rhaid inni ddysgu o’r wers chwerw hon. Rhaid inni edrych ar bob un o’n polisïau. Pryderaf ynglŷn â’r ras i ddefnyddio’r fenter cyllid preifat. Rhaid inni roi’r gorau i hyn yn awr cyn inni ganiatáu i ragor o’n hasedion cenedlaethol adael rheolaeth ddemocrataidd a dod o dan reolaeth busnes mawr. Mae angen dybryd hefyd i gyflwyno polisi datblygu economaidd cadarn ac adeiladol, a adleisiwyd gan lawer o’r Aelodau y bore yma. Mae angen i ni weithredu. Beth mae’r Dirprwy Brif Weinidog a’r Gweinidog dros Ddatblygu Economaidd yn ei wneud ynglŷn â hyn? Yn Sunderland, pe bai gwaith Nissan yn cau, mae cynlluniau manwl ar waith. Clywsom sibrydion fod Corus yn mynd i gau ers amser maith. Ble mae’r cynlluniau manwl ar gyfer Cymru? Pam bod y Llywodraeth hon wedi troi ei chefn arnom?
I reject those last comments. If the workers in Llanwern, Ebbw Vale, Shotton or anywhere else had been told a fortnight or three weeks ago that the Government was making contingency plans for a situation where they would lose their jobs, they would be the first people to accuse this administration of betrayal. Janet should reconsider her comments.
Gwrthodaf y sylwadau olaf hynny. Pe hysbyswyd y gweithwyr yn Llanwern, Glynebwy, Shotton neu unrhyw fan arall bythefnos neu dair wythnos yn ôl bod y Llywodraeth yn gwneud cynlluniau wrth gefn ar gyfer sefyllfa lle y byddent yn colli eu swyddi, hwy fyddai’r bobl gyntaf i gyhuddo’r weinyddiaeth hon o frad. Dylai Janet ailystyried ei sylwadau.
I offer my unconditional support to Rhodri and the administration for all that they have done. I know that Rhodri has worked tirelessly. He has done everything that anybody could possibly have done under difficult circumstances. He was faced with an appalling and unprecedented situation. Corus, a major company, as a matter of policy has refused to even discuss its plans with the Government, knowing that those plans would have a devastating affect. Rhodri and his colleagues in Government have been frustrated by how Corus has handled this situation. The company has been high-handed, arrogant, as Peter Law described it, duplicitous as others have described it, and secretive in how it has betrayed people who work for it.
Cynigiaf fy nghefnogaeth ddiamod i Rhodri a’r weinyddiaeth am bopeth a wnaethant. Gwn fod Rhodri wedi gweithio’n ddiflino. Gwnaeth bopeth y gallai unrhyw un fod wedi ei wneud o dan amgylchiadau anodd. Wynebodd sefyllfa arswydus a digynsail. Mae Corus, cwmni o bwys, fel mater o bolisi wedi gwrthod hyd yn oed trafod ei gynlluniau â’r Llywodraeth, gan wybod y byddai’r cynlluniau hynny yn cael effaith ddinistriol. Teimlodd Rhodri a’i gyd-Aelodau yn y Llywodraeth yn rhwystredig yn y modd y mae Corus wedi ymdrin â’r sefyllfa hon. Bu’r cwmni yn awdurdodol a thrahaus, fel y’i disgrifiwyd gan Peter Law, yn dwyllodrus fel y’i disgrifiwyd gan eraill, ac yn gyfrinachgar yn y modd y mae wedi bradychu pobl sydd yn gweithio iddo.
The decision is brutal. It is a short-term decision that will have a devastating impact on the communities of Llanwern, Ebbw Vale, Shotton and Bryngwyn in Gorseinon. They will be devastated. However, the impact will be much wider. It will be felt in my constituency and other valley constituencies. As John Griffiths said, they supplied much of the hardcore for Llanwern when it was opened in 1962 and now provide many of the skilled workers. Therefore, it will have an impact on Wales in general.
Mae’r penderfyniad yn un creulon. Mae’n benderfyniad tymor byr a gaiff effaith andwyol ar gymunedau Llanwern, Glynebwy, Shotton a Bryngwyn yng Ngorseinon. Byddant yn teimlo’n dorcalonnus. Fodd bynnag, bydd yr effaith yn ehangach o lawer. Caiff ei deimlo yn fy etholaeth i ac etholaethau eraill yn y cymoedd. Fel y dywedodd John Griffiths, cyflenwasant lawer o’r gweithwyr craidd ar gyfer Llanwern pan agorwyd ef yn 1962 ac maent bellach yn darparu llawer o’r gweithwyr medrus. Felly, caiff effaith ar Gymru yn gyffredinol.
It is a callous decision for the workers. There is no group of workers who are more skilled, dedicated and productive and have done everything that has been asked of them over the years, certainly since the early 1980s. Trade unions have co-operated with everything that has been asked of them by the company. What is their reward? The sack. It is a dreadful and black day.
Mae’n benderfyniad didrugaredd i’r gweithwyr. Nid oes un grŵp arall o weithwyr sydd yn fwy medrus, ymroddedig a chynhyrchiol na hwy ac maent wedi gwneud popeth y gofynnwyd iddynt ei wneud dros y blynyddoedd, yn sicr ers dechrau’r 1980au. Mae undebau llafur wedi cydweithredu â phopeth y gofynnodd y cwmni iddynt ei wneud. Beth yw eu gwobr? Cael eu cardiau. Mae’n ddiwrnod ofnadwy a thywyll.
We are all suffering a terrible sense of frustration at what has happened because we have known that this has been coming. However, we have been unable to do anything about it, and that was a central part of the company’s strategy, namely keeping everybody in the dark and preventing any adequate response to the plans it has been covertly preparing.
Mae pob un ohonom yn teimlo’n rhwystredig iawn ar ôl yr hyn a ddigwyddodd oherwydd gwyddem fod hyn yn mynd i ddigwydd. Fodd bynnag, nid oeddem yn gallu gwneud unrhyw beth yn ei gylch ac mae hynny wedi bod yn rhan ganolog o strategaeth y cwmni sef cadw pawb yn y niwl ac atal unrhyw ymateb digonol i’r cynlluniau y bu wrthi yn eu paratoi yn y dirgel.
We must now take a deep breath after this terrible shock and consider our response. I am sure that Rhodri, when he opens next week’s debate, will inform us of the response. That is the right time for the response, Janet, in terms of training and alternative strategies. I hope that Rhodri will state that Corus cannot get away with this. There cannot be any asset stripping. Corus cannot walk away from its responsibilities in Ebbw Vale, Llanwern and Shotton with the contaminated sites that it has left behind. It must be made to meet its responsibilities.
Rhaid inni gymryd anadl ddofn ar ôl y sioc ofnadwy hon ac ystyried ein hymateb. Yr wyf yn siŵr y bydd Rhodri, pan agora’r ddadl yr wythnos nesaf, yn ein hysbysu o’r ymateb. Dyma’r adeg briodol ar gyfer yr ymateb, Janet, o ran hyfforddiant a strategaethau amgen. Gobeithiaf y bydd Rhodri yn nodi na all Corus ddianc heb gael ei gosbi. Ni ellir anrheithio’r asedion. Ni all Corus gerdded i ffwrdd o’i gyfrifoldebau yng Nglynebwy, Llanwern a Shotton gyda’r safleoedd llygredig y mae wedi eu gadael ar ôl. Rhaid gwneud iddo wynebu ei gyfrifoldebau.
There are wider issues. Phil Williams talked about our dependence on manufacturing in Wales. Twenty eight per cent of our gross domestic product in Wales comes from manufacturing compared to 20 per cent in the UK as a whole. We must think now in terms of what central Government is doing and what we in Wales are doing here to influence our own economy. There are economic, medium-term changes taking place in the European Union that will put continuing pressure on the Welsh economy, not only in basic manufacturing, but in agriculture and other sectors. We must consider why workers in Wales and Britain do not have the same protection as workers in Europe. How can they be cast aside so easily and without consultation?
Mae materion ehangach i’w trafod. Siaradodd Phil Williams am ein dibyniaeth ar weithgynhyrchu yng Nghymru. Daw 28 y cant o’n cynnyrch mewnwladol crynswth yng Nghymru o weithgynhyrchu o’i gymharu ag 20 y cant yn y DU yn gyffredinol. Rhaid inni bellach feddwl yn nhermau’r hyn a wna Llywodraeth ganolog a’r hyn a wnawn ni yma yng Nghymru i ddylanwadu ar ein heconomi ni. Mae newidiadau economaidd, tymor canolig yn digwydd yn yr Undeb Ewropeaidd a fydd yn rhoi pwysau parhaus ar yr economi Gymreig, nid yn unig yn y sector gweithgynhyrchu sylfaenol ond mewn amaethyddiaeth a sectorau eraill. Rhaid inni ystyried pam nad oes gan weithwyr yng Nghymru a Phrydain yr un diogelwch â gweithwyr yn Ewrop. Sut y gellir eu bwrw o’r neilltu mor hawdd a heb ymgynghori â hwy?
Central Government should learn lessons from how Corus has handled this matter. We must consider the single currency. I remember, as do other people here, a tightly fought referendum in 1997, because at the time of the general election we were not trying to argue the case for devolution. I fear that the Government that I support is in danger of falling into the trap of fighting the general election by stating that there are great difficulties with the single currency—Alun Cairns would be happy about that. It is no good giving that message in 2001, if in 2002, you are knocking on doors trying to persuade people to vote for a single currency in a referendum. We must get to grips with that. If we believe, as I do, that joining the single currency is, at least, one of the things that we must do, we should be prepared to stand up and argue that case now. However, we must also do other things. I regret that the Government has not thought more seriously about having a more robust policy on competition and regulation. The writing was on the wall when the Corus merger went through some years ago. We also saw the impact of Government policy on Hyder, and so on. Central Government will have to rethink how it views the impact of these major concerns on our national economy. Even before this black day, there were issues for us to consider that were much closer to home.
Dylai Llywodraeth ganolog ddysgu gwersi o’r ffordd y mae Corus wedi ymdrin â’r mater hwn. Rhaid inni ystyried yr arian cyfredol sengl. Cofiaf, fel y gwna pobl eraill yma, refferendwm a ymladdwyd i’r eithaf yn 1997, oherwydd ar adeg yr etholiad cyffredinol nid oeddem yn ceisio dadlau o blaid datganoli. Ofnaf fod y Llywodraeth a gefnogaf mewn perygl o syrthio i’r fagl o ymladd yr etholiad cyffredinol drwy nodi bod anawsterau mawr gyda’r arian cyfredol sengl—byddai Alun Cairns yn falch o glywed hynny. Nid yw’n fuddiol rhoi’r neges honno yn 2001 os ydych, yn 2002, yn curo ar ddrysau gan geisio darbwyllo pobl i bleidleisio dros arian cyfredol sengl mewn refferendwm. Rhaid inni fynd i’r afael â hynny. Os credwn, fel y credaf fi, fod ymuno â’r arian cyfredol sengl yn un o’r pethau y mae’n rhaid inni ei wneud, dylem fod yn barod i sefyll a dadlau o blaid hynny yn awr. Fodd bynnag, rhaid inni wneud pethau eraill hefyd. Trueni nad yw’r Llywodraeth wedi meddwl yn fwy difrifol am gael polisi mwy cadarn ar gystadlu a rheoleiddio. Yr oedd yr ysgrifen ar y mur pan gwblhawyd uniad Corus rai blynyddoedd yn ôl. Gwelsom hefyd effaith polisi’r Llywodraeth ar Hyder, ac yn y blaen. Bydd yn rhaid i’r Llywodraeth ganolog ailystyried y ffordd y mae’n ystyried effaith y pryderon mawr hyn ar ein heconomi genedlaethol. Hyd yn oed cyn y diwrnod tywyll hwn, yr oedd materion inni eu hystyried a oedd yn llawer mwy perthnasol.
Reference has been made to yesterday’s debate in the Economic Development Committee. I will briefly discuss issues raised in that meeting. Our gross domestic product per capita in Wales is now lower than it has ever been, before this devastating impact on the steel industry. We are now producing less than 80 per cent of the UK’s overall GDP per capita. We aspire to have a better economy and a rate of GDP growth in Wales that is 1 per cent higher than the UK as a whole. However, we will not achieve that rate based on current policies and distribution of resources. If we want to change how we develop our economy and the rate of economic growth, we must change the policies that affect it. Even before this announcement, in the central Valleys that I represent we were aspiring to an economic growth rate of 5 per cent. In the Gwent Valleys, and Peter Law’s constituency, we were aspiring to over 4 per cent. I hope that we achieve that, but—setting aside today’s closures—we will not do so, unless we change our policies. I hope that Alun Cairns agrees that that was the message that came out of yesterday’s Economic Development Committee. It is not that we do not want to reach those targets, but that we do not believe that the policies are in place to do so.
Cyfeiriwyd at ddadl ddoe yn y Pwyllgor Datblygu Economaidd. Trafodaf yn fras y materion a godwyd yn y cyfarfod hwnnw. Mae ein cynnyrch mewnwladol crynswth y pen yng Nghymru bellach yn is nag y bu erioed, cyn yr effaith ddinistriol hon ar y diwydiant dur. Yr ydym bellach yn cynhyrchu llai nag 80 y cant o CMC y pen. Anelwn at gael gwell economi a chyfradd twf CMC yng Nghymru sydd 1 y cant yn uwch na’r DU yn gyffredinol. Fodd bynnag, ni chyflawnwn y gyfradd honno yn seiliedig ar bolisïau cyfredol a dosbarthiad adnoddau. Os ydym am newid y ffordd y datblygwn ein heconomi a chyfradd y twf economaidd, rhaid inni newid y polisïau sydd yn effeithio arno. Hyd yn oed cyn y cyhoeddiad hwn, yn y Cymoedd canol a gynrychiolaf yr oeddem yn anelu at gael cyfradd twf economaidd o 5 y cant. Yng Nghymoedd Gwent, ac etholaeth Peter Law, yr oeddem yn anelu at 4 y cant. Gobeithiaf y cyflawnwn hynny, ond—gan roi’r gweithfeydd a gaewyd heddiw i’r naill ochr—ni wnawn hynny, oni newidiwn ein polisïau. Gobeithiaf y cytuna Alun Cairns mai dyna oedd y neges a gyflewyd yn y Pwyllgor Datblygu Economaidd ddoe. Nid dweud yr ydym nad ydym am gyrraedd y targedau hynny, ond yn hytrach dweud na chredwn fod y polisïau ar waith i wneud hynny.
That leads me to two conclusions. There is no doubt that the Assembly’s resources will be sorely stretched. We must understand that if the sentiments expressed today are to be meaningful, then they must be turned into practical action. For Ebbw Vale, Shotton, Gorseinon and the Objective 1 areas, if these are not to be crocodile tears, we must follow those sentiments with policies and make those areas our priority. That has implications for how we distribute resources within the Assembly. If those resources are inadequate for us to do what we want to do to rebuild those communities, we must have recourse to other sources of finance.
Mae hynny’n fy arwain at ddau gasgliad. Nid oes unrhyw amheuaeth y bydd pwysau mawr ar adnoddau’r Cynulliad. Rhaid inni ddeall bod yn rhaid i’r teimladau a fynegir heddiw gael eu troi yn gamau ymarferol er mwyn iddynt fod yn ystyrlon. Ar gyfer Glynebwy, Shotton, Gorseinon ac ardaloedd Amcan 1, er mwyn osgoi ffug-wylofain, rhaid inni greu polisïau yn sgîl y teimladau hynny a blaenoriaethu’r ardaloedd hynny. Mae i hynny oblygiadau o ran y ffordd y dosbarthwn adnoddau o fewn y Cynulliad. Os nad yw’r adnoddau hynny yn ddigonol inni wneud yr hyn yr ydym am ei wneud i ailadeiladu’r cymunedau hynny, rhaid inni droi at ffynonellau ariannol eraill.
Wales’s current allocation of resources is based on population and not need. The amount of money that we will get from central Government next year will not change following today’s announcement. I think that it should be greater. There should be a mechanism for Wales to state that it has suffered a devastating blow and that it will have to spend a lot of money to try to rebuild those communities and deal with the consequence of this unbridled capitalism. Central Government has a responsibility to do something about that. I do not think for a moment that it will volunteer resources. Therefore, the Assembly must tell central Government that it has a responsibility as a result of its policies—albeit not a conscious act of policy—on competition, on Europe and in allowing the merger to go ahead and not protecting workers. We should turn to the central Government now and say that it is time for it to cough up because we will need those resources to ensure that the communities that have suffered such a devastating blow today have some measure of fair treatment in the future.
Seilir dyraniad cyfredol Cymru o’r adnoddau ar boblogaeth ac nid angen. Ni fydd swm yr arian a gawn gan Lywodraeth ganolog y flwyddyn nesaf yn newid yn dilyn cyhoeddiad heddiw. Credaf y dylai fod yn fwy. Dylai fod gan Gymru rhyw ffordd o nodi ei bod wedi dioddef ergyd drom ac y bydd yn rhaid iddi wario llawer o arian i geisio ailadeiladu’r cymunedau hynny ac ymdrin â chanlyniad y gyfalafiaeth benrhydd hon. Cyfrifoldeb Llywodraeth ganolog yw gwneud rhywbeth ynglŷn â hynny. Ni chredaf am eiliad y bydd yn gwirfoddoli i roi adnoddau. Felly, rhaid i’r Cynulliad ddweud wrth Lywodraeth ganolog fod ganddi gyfrifoldeb o ganlyniad i’w pholisïau—er nad yw’n ymwybodol o weithredu polisi—ar gystadlu, ar Ewrop ac wrth ganiatáu i’r uno fynd yn ei flaen a pheidio â diogelu gweithwyr. Dylem droi at Lywodraeth ganolog yn awr a dweud bod yr amser wedi dod i dalu oherwydd bydd arnom angen yr adnoddau hynny i sicrhau y caiff y cymunedau sydd wedi dioddef ergyd mor drom heddiw rywfaint o driniaeth deg yn y dyfodol.
I endorse Ron’s remarks, but, more particularly, I was greatly impressed by Peter Law’s remarks. I am sure that I speak for all Assembly Members in responding to those clearly heartfelt remarks. Peter will remember what was referred to as the great Ebbw Vale Iron, Steel and Coal Company, which produced that work in difficult circumstances. I—like him—pay tribute to the workforce. It has been through this before. In the 1920s the works was closed and mothballed. It required a world war to recommence iron and steel production in Ebbw Vale. Rearmament in 1936 re-commissioned the Ebbw Vale steelworks. We do not want that to happen again. However, it relates to what Dafydd Wigley said about the importance of having a strategic industry that can produce iron and steel. That is necessary for defence armaments. In Newport, the position is different, where iron and steel production was relatively small until the early days of the last century. The Cortabella works had been there for years, and then came the larger works, John Lysaght in 1905, which was a British managed company. Our production of iron and steel with whiteheads and later with steel rollers became greater.
Cymeradwyaf sylwadau Ron, ond, yn fwy arbennig, creodd sylwadau Peter Law argraff fawr arnaf. Yr wyf yn siŵr fy mod yn siarad ar ran pob Aelod o’r Cynulliad wrth ymateb i’r sylwadau didwyll hynny. Bydd Peter yn cofio’r hyn y cyfeiriwyd ato fel Cwmni Haearn, Dur a Glo mawr Glynebwy, a gynhyrchodd y gwaith hwnnw o dan amgylchiadau anodd. Talaf fi—fel ef—deyrnged i’r gweithlu. Bu drwy hyn unwaith o’r blaen. Yn y 1920au caewyd y gwaith a’i roi o’r neilltu. Yr oedd angen rhyfel byd i ailgychwyn y gwaith o gynhyrchu haearn a dur yng Nglynebwy. Ailgomisiynwyd gwaith dur Glynebwy yn 1936 o ganlyniad i ailarfogi. Ni ddymunwn i hynny ddigwydd eto. Fodd bynnag, y maen’n ymwneud â’r hyn a ddywedodd Dafydd Wigley ynglŷn â phwysigrwydd cael diwydiant strategol a all gynhyrchu haearn a dur. Mae angen hynny ar gyfer arfau rhyfel er mwyn amddiffyn. Yng Nghasnewydd, mae’r sefyllfa yn wahanol, gan yr oedd y gwaith cynhyrchu haearn a dur yng yn gymharol fach tan ddyddiau cynnar y ganrif ddiwethaf. Yr oedd gwaith Cortabella wedi bod yno ers blynyddoedd, ac yna daeth y gweithfeydd mwy o faint, John Lysaght yn 1905 a oedd yn gwmni o dan reolaeth Brydeinig. Dechreuasom gynhyrchu mwy o haearn a dur gyda ‘whiteheads’ ac yn ddiweddarach gyda rholeri dur.
I remember as a child in the 1950s returning from school and being told by my father that Newport’s future was assured. There would be a new steelworks at Llanwern. I can remember hearing of talks with Harry Spencer, Gus Latham, Campbell Adamson and Julian Clode in the house that is now my home. I was intensely proud that Newport was chosen for this site. We thought we had an indefinite future; how wrong we were. I ask questions of this Executive today, for I must do so on behalf of my constituents. I asked the First Minister last year at the time of this merger if he would make any additional funds available in the event that retraining became necessary. I still await a reply, as does every Assembly Member. On 7 December, I repeated my question. There was no reply. On 15 January, I asked the Minister for Economic Development for his assurances that foreign steel was not being dumped uncompetitively, putting our jobs at risk in Wales. I still await a reply. A few weeks ago, I asked the Minister for Education and Lifelong Learning if she would give details of what could be done for people who lost their jobs. Where could they find information as to how they could be retrained? Where could they find information that would ensure their economic future? Need I say that I still await a reply?
Cofiaf ddychwelyd o’r ysgol yn y 1950au pan oeddwn yn blentyn a’m tad yn dweud wrthyf fod dyfodol Casnewydd yn sicr. Byddai gwaith dur newydd yn Llanwern. Cofiaf am sgyrsiau gyda Harry Spencer, Gus Latha, Campbell Adamson a Julian Clode yn y tŷ sydd bellach yn gartref imi. Yr oeddwn yn falch eithriadol fod Casnewydd wedi ei dewis ar gyfer y safle hwn. Credasom fod gennym ddyfodol diderfyn; mor anghywir yr oeddem. Gofynnaf gwestiynau i’r Weithrediaeth hon heddiw, oherwydd rhaid imi wneud hynny ar ran fy etholwyr. Gofynnais i’r Prif Weinidog y llynedd ar adeg yr uno hwn a allai sicrhau bod unrhyw arian ychwanegol ar gael pe bai angen ailhyfforddi. Yr wyf yn aros am ateb o hyd, fel y mae pob Aelod arall o’r Cynulliad hwn. Ar 7 Rhagfyr, gofynnais fy nghwestiwn eto. Ni chafwyd ateb. Ar 15 Ionawr, gofynnais i’r Gweinidog dros Ddatblygu Economaidd am sicrwydd nad oedd dur tramor yn cael ei werthu am brisiau nad oeddent yn gystadleuol, gan beryglu ein swyddi yng Nghymru. Arhosaf am ateb o hyd. Ychydig wythnosau yn ôl, gofynnais i’r Gweinidog dros Addysg a Dysgu Gydol Oes os gallai roi manylion am yr hyn y gellid ei wneud i bobl sydd wedi colli eu swyddi. Ble y gallent ddod o hyd i wybodaeth am sut y gellid eu hailhyfforddi? Ble y gallent ddod o hyd i’r wybodaeth a fyddai’n sicrhau eu dyfodol economaidd? A oes angen imi ddweud fy mod yn aros am ateb o hyd?
I hope that the Executive’s staggering complacency will be misfounded. I have confidence in the people of South Wales East. I have no doubt that they are resilient. In the early 1980s we experienced this with the slim down. It caused, as Members will recall, a slight boom in consumer goods. However, we knew that the inevitable would happen and that people would have difficulty in finding employment. It took major measures by the national Government to bring forth adequate economic policies that led to regeneration in the late 1990s. We do not want those sacrifices to be lost. We do not want short-term measures. We want an adequate review of what is happening in the steel industry. I fear that the decision has already been taken many miles from here by the European Commission. It has shown, year after year, that it is determined to reduce steel-making capacity in Europe. We seem to be the fall guy in this situation. It is ironic that Ron speaks about the source of these funds. We know that there are immense funds available from the European Commission once the cuts have been made. When restructuring is necessary, the money will come. Yet, I place part of the blame on the European Commission which, to be fair, has been open about the necessity—as it sees it—to reduce steel making capacity in the United Kingdom and in Europe. The majority of steel in Germany is made by the Thyssen-Krupp combine. Why should it be that the British Steel Corporation, now Corus, should not have been able to put up a stronger fight with Government encouragement, so that we could ensure that we have a viable economic future for south-east Wales and the whole of Wales.
Gobeithiaf na fydd sail i agwedd ddihid syfrdanol y Weithrediaeth. Mae gennyf hyder ym mhobl Dwyrain De Cymru. Nid oes unrhyw amheuaeth gennyf eu bod yn wydn. Ar ddechrau’r 1980au cawsom brofiad o hyn gyda’r toriadau. Achosodd, fel y bydd yr Aelodau yn cofio, ychydig o dwf mewn nwyddau defnyddwyr. Fodd bynnag, gwyddom y byddai’r anochel yn digwydd ac y câi pobl anhawster i ddod o hyd i gyflogaeth. Bu’n rhaid i’r Llywodraeth genedlaethol gymryd mesurau mawr i gyflwyno polisïau economaidd digonol a arweiniodd at adfywiad ar ddiwedd y 1990au. Nid ydym am i’r aberthau hynny gael eu colli. Nid ydym eisiau mesurau tymor byr. Yr ydym am gynnal adolygiad digonol o’r hyn sydd yn digwydd yn y diwydiant dur. Ofnaf fod y penderfyniad eisoes wedi ei wneud filltiroedd o’r fan hon gan y Comisiwn Ewropeaidd. Dangosodd, flwyddyn ar ôl blwyddyn, ei fod yn benderfynol o leihau’r gallu i gynhyrchu dur yn Ewrop. Ymddengys mai ni yw’r bwch dihangol yn y sefyllfa hon. Mae’n eironig bod Ron yn sôn am ffynhonnell yr arian hwn. Gwyddom fod arian mawr ar gael o’r Comisiwn Ewropeaidd unwaith y gwneir y toriadau. Pan fydd angen ailstrwythuro, daw’r arian. Ac eto, i raddau, beiaf y Comisiwn Ewropeaidd sydd, a bod yn deg, wedi bod yn agored ynglŷn â’r angen—fel y gwêl pethau—i leihau’r gallu i gynhyrchu dur yn y Deyrnas Unedig ac yn Ewrop. Gwneir y mwyafrif o’r dur yn yr Almaen gan y gyfuned Thyssen-Krupp. Pam na ddylai’r Gorfforaeth Ddur Brydeinig, sef Corus bellach, fod wedi gallu ymladd yn galetach gydag anogaeth y Llywodraeth, fel y gallem sicrhau bod gennym ddyfodol economaidd dichonol ar gyfer de-ddwyrain Cymru a Chymru gyfan.
Dafydd Wigley siaradwyd yn Gymraeg ac yn Saesneg t. 62
Dafydd Wigley spoken in Welsh and English p. 62
Codaf i siarad heddiw gydag ymdeimlad o gryn dristwch a hefyd dicter. Mae’r tristwch yn ymwneud â’r cymunedau sydd wedi dioddef mor enbyd o’r datganiadau, a gyhoeddwyd heddiw, ond sydd wedi bod yn loetran yn y cefndir ers misoedd. Gwyddom y bydd cau’r gweithfeydd a cholli’r swyddi hyn yn arwain, nid yn unig at ddiweithrdra ymhlith y gweithlu, ond hefyd at golli swyddi mewn diwydiannau a gwasanaethau sydd yn ddibynnol ar y diwydiant dur. Mae hyn yn wir, nid yn unig am Lanwern, a Glyn Ebwy yn arbennig, gan ei fod yn cau yn gyfan gwbl—ac edmygais araith Peter Law hefyd—ond hefyd am ardaloedd fel Shotton sydd wedi dioddef cymaint dros gyfnod estynedig ac sydd heddiw yn dioddef eto.
in Welsh I speak today with considerable sadness and also anger. I am sad for the communities that have suffered terribly as a result of the announcements, made today, but which have cast an ominous shadow for months. We know that the closure of these works and the job losses will lead, not only to unemployment among the workforce, but also to job losses in associated services that are dependant on the steel industry. This is true, not only of Llanwern, and of Ebbw Vale in particular, because it is closing down—and I admired Peter Law’s speech on this—but also of Shotton, which has suffered greatly over a long period and is again suffering today.
Yr oeddem yn gwybod fod y newyddion ar y ffordd ers amser maith. Ond wrth geisio rhybuddio am hyn dros 12 mis yn ôl, dywedodd Gweinidogion yn yr Adran Masnach a Diwydiant yn Llundain ein bod yn hel bwganod ac na ddylem wneud hynny. Pan rybuddiai’r wasg a’r cyfryngau, dyna hefyd oedd ymateb pobl fel Helen Liddell ac eraill yn yr Adran. Os oedd y Llywodraeth yn gwrando, nid oedd hynny’n amlwg. Cyfeiriaf at y Llywodraeth yn San Steffan ac nid gymaint at y Llywodraeth yng Nghaerdydd.
in Welsh We have known that this news was coming for a long time. When we issued warnings more than 12 months ago, Ministers in the Department of Trade and Industry claimed that we were scaremongering, and that we should not do so. When the press and the media also issued warnings, Helen Liddell and others in the Department gave the same response. If the Government was listening, it was not obvious and I am referring here to the Westminster Government and not so much to the Government in Cardiff.
Pan fo sibrydion fel hyn ar led, mae cyfrifoldeb ar lywodraeth i baratoi cynlluniau wrth gefn. Cymeraf fod y Llywodraeth yng Nghaerdydd wedi paratoi cynlluniau felly. Gobeithiwn yn fwy fyth, gan mai gan y Llywodraeth yn San Steffan y mae’r cyfrifoldeb, y paratowyd cynlluniau gan y Llywodraeth honno hefyd. Dychwelaf at hyn.
in Welsh When rumours such as these are rife, it is a government’s responsibility, at the very least, to make contingency plans. I assume that such plans have been made by the Government in Cardiff. I hope even more that, as the prime responsibility for these industries lies with the Government in Westminster, that it has also made plans. I will return to this.
Before entering the House of Commons, I worked in industry for a decade and for two thirds of that time, in industry that used the product of Welsh steel. I worked for the Ford motor company in Dagenham and the Hoover company in Merthyr Tydfil. I know the importance of the steel industry. It is a basic strategic industry. It is basic in terms of defence, as Edwina Hart rightly mentioned a moment ago. How on earth can any country have an independent defence capability if it does not have an independent steel producing capability? Writing off a steel industry means undermining the defence capacity. Equally, how on earth can other steel-using industries, such as the motor industry, one of the key industries in Wales, and other consumer goods industries, such as washing machines and so on, be certain of their future, unless they have this basic industry behind them?
yn Saesneg Cyn dechrau yn Nhŷ’r Cyffredin, gweithiais mewn diwydiant am ddegawd ac am ddwy ran o dair o’r amser hwnnw, mewn diwydiant a ddefnyddiai ddur Cymru. Gweithiais i’r cwmni cerbydau Ford yn Dagenham a’r cwmni Hoover ym Merthyr Tudful. Gwn am bwysigrwydd y diwydiant dur. Mae’n ddiwydiant strategol sylfaenol. Mae’n sylfaenol o ran amddiffyn, fel y soniodd Edwina Hart yn briodol eiliad yn ôl. Sut ar wyneb y ddaear y gall unrhyw wlad gael gallu amddiffyn annibynnol os nad oes ganddi allu annibynnol i gynhyrchu dur? Mae dileu diwydiant dur yn golygu tanseilio’r gallu i amddiffyn. Yn yr un modd, sut ar wyneb y ddaear y gall diwydiannau eraill sydd yn defnyddio dur, fel y diwydiant cerbydau, un o’r diwydiannau allweddol yng Nghymru, a diwydiannau nwyddau defnyddwyr eraill, fel peiriannau golchi ac yn y blaen, fod yn sicr o’u dyfodol, oni fydd y diwydiant sylfaenol hwn y tu ôl iddynt?
That is why it is amazing that a Government, which is in charge of the economy and decides on questions such as interest rates and the exchange rate of currency, responsibility for which lies with the Treasury in Whitehall, can sit back and see what is, and has been, happening to the steel industry. Today it has come to a climax. The same is happening to the manufacturing sector, agriculture and tourism because of the value of the pound. How on earth can it sit back and allow this to happen with the devastating effect that we are facing today? It is a disaster for Wales, but particularly for those communities that have been so undermined by this news.
yn Saesneg Dyna pam y rhyfeddaf y gall Llywodraeth, sydd yng ngofal yr economi ac sydd yn penderfynu ar gwestiynau fel cyfraddau llog a chyfradd gyfnewid arian cyfred, sef cyfrifoldeb y Trysorlys yn Whitehall, laesu dwylo a gweld beth sydd yn digwydd a beth sydd wedi bod yn digwydd i’r diwydiant dur. Heddiw daeth i uchafbwynt. Mae’r un peth yn digwydd i’r sector gweithgynhyrchu, i amaethyddiaeth ac i dwristiaeth oherwydd gwerth y bunt. Sut ar wyneb y ddaear y gall laesu dwylo a chaniatáu i hyn ddigwydd gyda’r effaith ddinistriol a wynebwn heddiw? Mae’n drychineb i Gymru, ond yn arbennig i’r cymunedau hynny a ddifethwyd cymaint gan y newyddion hwn.
I am aware that Rhodri Morgan and Mike German went to Downing Street to put questions to the Prime Minister on this. And it was right that they did. We would have welcomed an earlier meeting, but we were glad that they went when they did. However, what was the Prime Minister’s response? What undertakings were given, not only to try and make up for the devastation that could follow in these areas, but to head off this decision from happening in the first place?
yn Saesneg Yr wyf yn ymwybodol bod Rhodri Morgan a Mike German wedi mynd i Stryd Downing i holi’r Prif Weinidog ynglŷn â hyn. Ac yr oedd yn iawn eu bod wedi gwneud hynny. Byddem wedi croesawu cyfarfod cynharach, ond yr oeddem yn falch eu bod wedi mynd pan wnaethant. Fodd bynnag, beth oedd ymateb y Prif Weinidog? Pa ymrwymiadau a roddwyd, nid yn unig i geisio gwneud yn iawn am y dinistr a allai ddilyn yn yr ardaloedd hyn, ond i atal y penderfyniad hwn rhag digwydd yn y lle cyntaf?
I accept that it takes two to tango, and if Corus is unwilling to talk, it puts Government in an invidious position. However, the responsibility lies with Government to safeguard a strategic industry of this kind. That is why I intervened with Edwina Hart. I say the same again; if such an important industry cannot be safeguarded in the private sector, then it is Government’s responsibility to take necessary steps. If necessary, the industry must be renationalised. However, the resources must be made available to take that company over and for it to be run on a commercial basis, by people who know about the industry. It could be run by the employees, as suggested by the proposal put forward by the trade unions or there could be a management buyout, but with the support of Government resources. Mike German said in the Committee yesterday that it would take enormous resources to achieve that. How can that be? Corus has said that it is losing money. If you valuate a company that is losing money at this rate, there is virtually no valuation at all. Take it over, safeguard those jobs and create a structure whereby those who are involved in the industry can run it again.
yn Saesneg Derbyniaf fod dwy ochr i’r geiniog, ac os yw Corus yn amharod i siarad, mae’n rhoi’r Llywodraeth mewn sefyllfa anodd. Fodd bynnag, cyfrifoldeb y Llywodraeth yw diogelu diwydiant strategol o’r math hwn. Dyna pam yr ymyrrais pan oedd Edwina Hart yn siarad. Dywedaf yr un peth eto; os na all diwydiant mor bwysig â hyn gael ei diogelu yn y sector preifat, yna cyfrifoldeb y Llywodraeth yw cymryd y camau angenrheidiol. Os bydd angen, rhaid ailwladoli’r diwydiant. Fodd bynnag, rhaid i’r adnoddau fod ar gael i feddiannu’r cwmni hwnnw a’i redeg ar sail fasnachol, gan bobl sydd yn gwybod am y diwydiant. Gallai’r cyflogeion ei redeg, fel yr awgrymwyd gan y cynnig a gyflwynwyd gan yr undebau llafur neu bryniad gan y rheolwyr, ond gyda chefnogaeth adnoddau’r Llywodraeth. Dywedodd Mike German yn y Pwyllgor ddoe y byddai angen llawer o adnoddau i gyflawni hynny. Sut felly? Dywedodd Corus ei fod yn colli arian. Os prisiwch gwmni sydd yn colli arian ar y gyfradd hon, nid oes braidd unrhyw brisiad o gwbl. Meddiannwch ef, diogelwch y swyddi hynny gan greu strwythur lle y gall y rheini sydd yn gysylltiedig â’r diwydiant ei redeg eto.
I am concerned at the tone of what we have heard today. The steel industry is too important to be left in the hands of a crumbling corporation such as Corus. Government cannot leave the future of such a vital, basic industry in the hands of a fly-by-night corporation. The Blair Government is duty-bound to move towards the renationalisation of this industry and pass over the running of it—at arm’s length—to those with a professional background in the field, on a commercial basis.
yn Saesneg Pryderaf ynglŷn â thôn yr hyn a glywsom heddiw. Mae’r diwydiant dur yn rhy bwysig i’w adael yn nwylo corfforaeth fregus fel Corus. Ni all y Llywodraeth adael dyfodol diwydiant mor hanfodol, sylfaenol yn nwylo corfforaeth amheus. Mae gan Lywodraeth Blair ddyletswydd i symud tuag at ailwladoli’r diwydiant hwn a throsglwyddo’r gwaith o’i redeg—hyd braich—i’r rheini sydd â chefndir proffesiynol yn y maes, ar sail fasnachol.
Mae’r ddadl heddiw, ar adegau, wedi teimlo’n angladdol. Oni ddylai heddiw fod yn ddiwrnod i ni ddatgan nad ydym yn fodlon derbyn y penderfyniad hwn ac y byddwn yn ymladd yn ôl? Dylan Thomas a ddywedodd,
in Welsh Today’s debate has at times, felt funereal. Should this not be a day to state that we are unwilling to accept this decision and that we will fight back? It was Dylan Thomas who said,
‘Do not go gentle into that good night’
Mae angen inni wneud yn glir i’r Llywodraeth yn San Steffan nad yw’r penderfyniad hwn yn dderbyniol. Disgwyliwn i Lywodraeth Tony Blair gymryd camau i newid penderfyniad Corus. Os yw Corus yn anfodlon gwneud hynny, yna dylid rhoi Mesur drwy’r Senedd ar fyrder i gymryd y cwmni hwn i berchenogaeth gyhoeddus. Os yw Downing Street yn troi ei chefn ar Gymru—fel yr awgrymodd Will Hutton yr wythnos diwethaf—mae’r neges yn glir. Dylai yntau ddisgwyl i Gymru droi ei chefn ar Downing Street.
in Welsh We need to make it clear to the Westminster Government that this decision is unacceptable. We expect Tony Blair’s Government to take steps to change Corus’s decision. If Corus is unwilling to do that, then a Bill should be put through Parliament as a matter of urgency to take this company into public ownership. If Downing Street is turning its back on Wales—as Will Hutton suggested last week—then the message is clear. He should expect Wales to turn its back on Downing Street.
As one of the other representatives for Newport, I endorse John Griffiths’s comments. His eloquent speech this morning showed how this issue is at the heart of Newport. The heart is being ripped out of the community in Newport. Make no mistake about that. Newport is a proud steel town. Having heard the devastating news this morning, you begin to think how steel affects you. I was interested to hear Phillip Williams recalling how his father pointed out to him the lights in the sky over Ebbw Vale. When I lived in Bargoed I recall seeing that light and being in awe of it. There are things in Newport that are part of its folklore, such as the huge queues and the shay lorries when the steelworks were being built. Poems and songs have been written about that. I remember going to school on the bus and spending hours trying to get through the town. Before I became an Assembly Member, I represented the Caerleon area as a member of Newport County Borough Council. The council houses of Caerleon were built to house the steelworkers who came from Ebbw Vale. When my children went to school, I was mystified by the A children and the B children. I thought that it was an intellectual analysis of how well they had done in their exams. However, it was not that at all. It was whether your father was on the A or B shift at Llanwern. That determined whether the children could play after school or not because their fathers were in bed. On a lighter note, if the B shift had not voted before going to work, the election would be lost because the A shift worked in the morning and slept in the afternoon and the B shift slept in the morning and worked in the afternoon. Unless they had done their civic duty before going to work, civic life in Caerleon would change.
Fel un o’r cynrychiolwyr eraill ar gyfer Casnewydd, cymeradwyaf sylwadau John Griffiths. Dangosodd ei araith huawdl y bore yma fod y mater hwn yn ganolog i fywyd Casnewydd. Rhwygir y galon o’r gymuned yng Nghasnewydd. Peidied neb â chamgymryd hynny. Mae Casnewydd yn dref ddur falch. Ar ôl clywed y newyddion trychinebus y bore yma, yr ydych yn dechrau meddwl sut y mae dur yn effeithio arnoch chi. Yr oedd diddordeb gennyf glywed Phillip Williams yn hel atgofion am ei dad yn sôn wrtho am y goleuadau yn yr awyr uwchben Glynebwy. Pan oeddwn yn byw ym Margoed, cofiaf weld y golau hwnnw ac yr oedd yn codi arswyd arnaf. Mae pethau yng Nghasnewydd sydd yn rhan o’i llên gwerin, fel y ciwiau hir a’r lorïau ‘shay’ pan oedd y gwaith dur yn cael ei adeiladu. Ysgrifennwyd cerddi a chaneuon am hynny. Cofiaf fynd i’r ysgol ar y bws a threulio oriau yn ceisio cyrraedd y dref. Cyn imi ddod yn Aelod o’r Cynulliad, cynrychioliais ardal Caerllion fel aelod o Gyngor Bwrdeistref Sirol Casnewydd. Adeiladwyd tai cyngor Caerllion ar gyfer y gweithwyr dur a ddaeth o Lynebwy. Pan aeth fy mhlant i’r ysgol, yr oedd y plant A a’r plant B yn ddirgelwch i mi. Credais mai dadansoddiad deallusol ydoedd o’u llwyddiant yn eu harholiadau. Fodd bynnag, nid dyna oedd yr eglurhad. Yr oedd yn cyfeirio at shifft eich tad yn Llanwern sef shifft A neu shifft B. Penderfynai hynny a allai’r plant chwarae ar ôl ysgol ai peidio am fod eu tadau yn y gwely. Ar nodyn ysgafnach, pe na bai shifft B wedi pleidleisio cyn mynd i’r gwaith, byddai’r etholiad wedi ei golli oherwydd yr oedd shifft A yn gweithio yn y bore ac yn cysgu yn y prynhawn a shifft B yn cysgu yn y bore ac yn gweithio yn y prynhawn. Oni fyddent wedi gwneud eu dylestwydd ddinesig cyn mynd i’r gwaith, byddai bywyd dinesig yng Nghaerllion yn newid.
The points that have been made about the abominable way that Corus has behaved were well-rehearsed this morning. It is obvious that Corus has been investing in its shareholders instead of the shareholders investing in Corus. That is a twist of the capitalist system.
Yr oedd y pwyntiau a wnaethpwyd am y ffordd warthus y mae Corus wedi ymddwyn wedi eu hymarfer yn dda y bore yma. Mae’n amlwg y bu Corus yn buddsoddi yn ei gyfranddalwyr yn hytrach na’r cyfranddalwyr yn buddsoddi yn Corus. Dyna dro ar y system gyfalafol.
I discussed child poverty earlier. Even with Llanwern’s thousands of highly-paid and highly-skilled jobs, there are areas of severe deprivation in Newport. I dread to think what will happen in the future. Not only fathers, but grandfathers, uncles, partners—generations of families who have worked in the steelworks—will no longer have jobs. I fear for what will happen to children in Newport.
Trafodais dlodi plant yn gynharach. Hyd yn oed gyda miloedd o swyddi cyflog uchel a thra medrus yn Llanwern, mae ardaloedd o amddifadedd difrifol yng Nghasnewydd. Mae arnaf ofn beth fydd yn digwydd iddynt yn y dyfodol. Ni fydd swyddi bellach gan dadau, heb sôn am deidiau, ewythrod, partneriaid—cenedlaethau o deuluoedd sydd wedi gweithio yn y gwaith dur. Ofnaf beth fydd yn digwydd i blant yng Nghasnewydd.
A vital issue has not been mentioned this morning. That is, whatever package Michael German and the Executive come up with, Newport County Borough Council must be central to it. It has done amazing work over the years. When there was slimming down in 1980, it was central to turning the town around. It was determined that Newport would never become a one-industry town. That council has done an admirable job, and I pay tribute to it. However, it must be part of events from hereon in, which I am interested in knowing about.
Mae un mater holl bwysig nas crybwyllwyd y bore yma, sef, beth bynnag fo’r pecyn a gyflwynir gan Michael German a’r Weithrediaeth, rhaid i Gyngor Bwrdeistref Sirol Casnewydd fod yn rhan ganolog ohono. Gwnaeth waith rhagorol dros y blynyddoedd. Pan fu toriadau yn 1980, yr oedd yn ganolog wrth newid y dref. Penderfynwyd na fyddai Casnewydd yn mynd yn dref ag un diwydiant. Mae’r cyngor hwnnw wedi gwneud gwaith cymeradwy, a thalaf deyrnged iddo. Fodd bynnag, rhaid iddo fod yn rhan o’r digwyddiadau o hyn ymlaen, ac mae gennyf ddiddordeb mewn gwybod amdanynt.
I will ask an urgent question about job losses in Dairy Crest later. Before Christmas, 200 jobs were lost in Alcan, which is also in my constituency. Job shops are being established, but they will be like something from the January sales. There will not be any jobs there for the workers to apply for. I am deeply concerned about what will happen to Newport as a community. I know that every effort will be made but we must try to build the town’s confidence in its future, because Llanwern was Newport and vice versa. If it were not for Llanwern, we would not have had the Severn Bridge when we did. Because of the importance of that plant to the rest of the United Kingdom, the Severn Bridge was built in 1966. We must consider the sheer depth of feeling in Newport about what this will mean. This morning’s debate has been emotional and I congratulate Members on how they have expressed their concerns. However, the agriculture and mining communities will now begin to feel what Newport is feeling this morning.
Gofynnaf gwestiwn brys yn ddiweddarach ynglŷn â swyddi a gollwyd yn Dairy Crest. Cyn y Nadolig, collwyd 200 o swyddi yn Alcan, sydd hefyd yn fy etholaeth i. Sefydlir siopau swyddi, ond byddant yn debyg i sêl mis Ionawr. Ni fydd unrhyw swyddi yno i’r gweithwyr ymgeisio amdanynt. Pryderaf yn fawr am beth fydd yn digwydd i Gasnewydd fel cymuned. Gwn y gwneir pob ymdrech ond rhaid inni geisio gynyddu hyder y dref yn ei dyfodol, oherwydd Llanwern oedd Casnewydd ac i’r gwrthwyneb. Oni bai am Lanwern, ni fyddem wedi cael Pont Hafren pan gawsom hi. Oherwydd pwysigrwydd y gwaith hwnnw mewn perthynas â gweddill y Deyrnas Unedig, adeiladwyd Pont Hafren yn 1966. Rhaid inni ystyried y teimladau dwys iawn yng Nghasnewydd ynglŷn â beth fydd hyn yn ei olygu. Bu’r ddadl y bore yma yn emosiynol a hoffwn longyfarch yr Aelodau ar y modd y maent wedi mynegi eu pryderon. Fodd bynnag, bydd y cymunedau amaethyddol a glofaol yn awr yn dechrau teimlo’r hyn y mae Casnewydd yn ei deimlo y bore yma.
This has been terrible day and it is not surprising that many strong words have been spoken. Peter Law, in his excellent contribution, reminded us that many people in Wales have a connection with the steel industry. My first job after leaving school was with British Tubes Stockholding, and one of my last was to set up a transport structure for Newport Galvanisers Limited. Both companies were closely involved with Llanwern. That reminded me that not only people in Llanwern will lose their jobs, but many others in associated industries.
Bu hwn yn ddiwrnod ofnadwy ac nid yw’n syndod y llefarwyd llawer o eiriau cryf. Fe’n hatgoffwyd gan Peter Law, yn ei gyfraniad rhagorol, fod gan lawer o bobl yng Nghymru gysylltiad â’r diwydiant dur. Fy swydd gyntaf ar ôl gadael yr ysgol oedd gyda British Tubes Stockholding, ac un o’m swyddi diwethaf oedd sefydlu strwythur trafnidiaeth i Newport Galvanisers Limited. Yr oedd y ddau gwmni yn gysylltiedig iawn â Llanwern. Mae hynny wedi’m hatgoffa nad pobl yn Llanwern yn unig fydd yn colli eu swyddi, ond llawer o bobl eraill mewn diwydiannau cysylltiedig.
With the utmost respect to many Members who have more experience than I, the answer today is not to attack capitalism or multinational companies, or to call for the renationalisation of industry. There is no simple answer to the terrible problem that confronts us today. However, if there is a long-term answer, it is that we must send out a message to the rest of the world that Wales is still an excellent place in which to invest. There remains a welcome, not only in the hillsides, but all over Wales for companies who want to come here and provide jobs. If Corus is not prepared to appreciate the strength of its workers—and it talks about the efficiency of those steelworkers—we must replace those jobs through other companies that are prepared to recognise the great strengths on offer here in Wales.
Gyda’r parch mwyaf i lawer o’r Aelodau sydd â mwy o brofiad na fi, yr ateb heddiw yw peidio ag ymosod ar gyfalafiaeth na chwmnïau rhyngwladol, na galw am ailwladoli diwydiant. Nid oes ateb syml i’r broblem ofnadwy sydd yn ein hwynebu heddiw. Fodd bynnag, os oes ateb tymor hir, yna’r ateb yw anfon neges i weddill y byd bod Cymru yn lle rhagorol o hyd i fuddsoddi ynddo. Bydd croeso o hyd, nid yn unig yn y bryniau, ond drey Gymru gyfan i gwmnïau sydd am ddod yma a darparu swyddi. Os nad yw Corus yn barod i werthfawrogi cryfder ei weithwyr—a siarada am effeithlonrwydd y gweithwyr dur hynny—rhaid inni ddod o hyd i swyddi eraill drwy gyfrwng cwmnïau eraill sydd yn barod i gydnabod y cryfderau mawr a gynigir yma yng Nghymru.
Scarcely a morning has passed in the last month or six weeks for tens, if not hundreds, of thousands of homes across Wales without the worry of what it would bring. As the Assembly Member for Aberavon, I have experienced that sickening feeling of turning on the radio and wondering whether today would be the day. I can imagine the sense of bitterness and resentment that people in Ebbw Vale, Newport, Shotton and Gorseinon must feel, even though we in Aberavon feel a sense of relief that we were not directly affected by this. I speak on behalf of the people of Aberavon, in the steel industry and the trade union movement, by saying that we have a great sense of solidarity and support for the people in Newport, Shotton and Ebbw Vale during these difficult and trying times. We support everything that is being done to try to remedy and mediate the severe consequences of these drastic closures. As Peter Law said, we all have a duty, in the National Assembly for Wales and in the Westminster Government, to strive to deal with the problems that a beleaguered community such as Ebbw Vale must be facing. The town already has record levels of unemployment, but is faced with another closure. It is behoven on us all to make a particular effort to ensure that above all else that community is not forgotten.
Prin bod bore wedi mynd heibio yn y mis neu’r chwe wythnos diwethaf heb i ddegau, os nad cannoedd, neu filoedd o gartrefi ledled Cymru, boeni am yr hyn a fyddai’n digwydd. Fel Aelod o’r Cynulliad dros Aberafan, profais y teimlad erchyll hwnnw o droi’r radio ymlaen a meddwl ai heddiw fyddai’r diwrnod. Gallaf ddychmygu’r ymdeimlad o chwerwder a drwgdeimlad y mae’n rhaid bod pobl yng Nglynebwy, Casnewydd, Shotton a Gorseinon yn ei deimlo, er ein bod ni yn Aberafan yn teimlo rhywfaint o ryddhad nad yw hyn yn effeithio’n uniongyrchol arnom. Siaradaf ar ran pobl Aberafan, yn y diwydiant dur a mudiad yr undebau llafur, drwy ddweud bod gennym ymdeimlad o undod a chefnogaeth i’r bobl yng Nghasnewydd, Shotton a Glynebwy yn ystod y cyfnod anodd a chaled hwn. Cefnogwn bopeth a wneir i geisio gwella canlyniadau difrifol y gweithfeydd hynny a gaeodd ac i weithredu fel cyfryngwr. Fel y dywedodd Peter Law, mae gan bob un ohonom ddyletswydd, yng Nghynulliad Cenedlaethol Cymru ac yn Llywodraeth San Steffan, i ymdrechu i ymdrin â’r problemau y mae’n rhaid bod cymuned mewn trafferthion, fel Glynebwy, yn eu hwynebu. Eisoes mae gan y dref y lefelau uchel iawn o ddiweithdra, ond mae’n wynebu’r ffaith bod gwaith arall yn cau. Mae’n ddyledus ar bob un ohonom i wneud ymdrech arbennig i sicrhau, yn anad dim, nad anghofir am y gymuned.
We share a sense of shock, and have almost reached a state of grief and disbelief in trying to make sense of what has happened. We are also trying to think of ways to move forward and we will, no doubt, have a debate on that next week. I have no ideological objection to nationalisation, but that is not the solution. We are all aware that we saw the highest levels of redundancy in Wales when industry was a nationalised entity, for example in the coal industry and the steel industry. At this juncture, unless parties, such as the Conservative party, signed up to a programme of nationalisation, the future of people within a nationalised industry would become a political football from one general election to another. Although I do not have any political or ideological objections, it is not a realistic scenario.
Rhannwn y sioc a deimlir, a daethom bron i gyflwr o alaru ac anghrediniaeth wrth geisio gwneud synnwyr o’r hyn a ddigwyddodd. Ceisiwn hefyd feddwl am ffyrdd o symud ymlaen ac mae’n siŵr y cawn ddadl, ar hynny yr wythnos nesaf. Nid oes gennyf wrthwynebiad ideolegol i wladoli, ond nid dyna’r ateb. Mae pob un ohonom yn ymwybodol ein bod wedi gweld y lefelau uchaf o ddiweithdra yng Nghymru pan oedd diwydiant yn endid gwladol, er enghraifft, yn y diwydiant glo a’r diwydiant dur. Yn y cyswllt hwn, pe na bai pleidiau, fel y blaid Geidwadol, yn ymuno â rhaglen wladoli, byddai dyfodol pobl o fewn diwydiant gwladol yn troi’n gêm wleidyddol o un etholiad cyffredinol i’r nesaf. Er nad oes gennyf unrhyw wrthwynebiadau gwleidyddol nac ideolegol, nid yw’n senario realistig.
In a sense of solidarity, as this issue is too important to play with, is it not possible to look for models, such as the water industry, which is held by a holding company and managed by people who understand it, that can carry cross-party support and therefore take the future of the steel industry away from politics?
O ran undod, gan na ddylid trin y mater hwn yn ysgafn, onid yw’n bosibl edrych am enghreifftiau, fel y diwydiant dŵr, sydd ym meddiant cwmni daliannol ac a reolir gan bobl sydd yn ei ddeall, a all gynnal cefnogaeth drawsbleidiol ac felly a all wahanu dyfodol y diwydiant dur oddi wrth wleidyddiaeth?
Cross-party support is the most important part of your question. If that could be achieved, your suggestion would be a reasonable consideration. However, I do not think that it is a realistic proposition. Consequently, we are heading down a blind alley that will lead nowhere. There are other viable options and alternative scenarios to be considered in order to ensure the future well-being of what remains of the steel industry, or possibly, at this late juncture, to offer some hope to those who are faced with job losses.
Cefnogaeth drawsbleidiol yw’r rhan bwysicaf o’ch cwestiwn. Pe gellid cyflawni hynny, byddai eich awgrym yn ystyriaeth resymol. Fodd bynnag, ni chredaf fod hynny’n gynnig realistig. O ganlyniad, dilynwn drywydd ofer na fydd yn arwain i unrhyw le. Mae opsiynau ymarferol eraill a senarios amgen i’w hystyried er mwyn sicrhau lles yr hyn sydd yn weddill o’r diwydiant dur yn y dyfodol, neu o bosibl, mor hwyr â hyn, i gynnig rhywfaint o obaith i’r rheini sydd yn wynebu colli swyddi.
It is important that we look at the future of the manufacturing industry in Wales.
Mae’n bwysig ein bod yn edrych ar ddyfodol y diwydiant gweithgynhyrchu yng Nghymru.
However, we realise that it is inextricably linked to the rest of the United Kingdom. It would be folly to think that there will be a Wales-only solution, particularly in terms of the steel industry, because vast amounts of its products were used in manufacturing throughout the United Kingdom. The future market for steel must have a UK-wide basis, because the loss of that market was one of the problems that led to this sad impasse today.
Fodd bynnag, sylweddolwn fod cyswllt anorfod â gweddill y Deyrnas Unedig. Byddai’n ffolineb meddwl mai ateb i Gymru yn unig fydd ar gael, yn arbennig o ran y diwydiant dur, oherwydd defnyddiwyd symiau helaeth o’i gynnyrch yn y sector gweithgynhyrchu ledled y Deyrnas Unedig. Rhaid i farchnad ddur y dyfodol gael sylfaen ar gyfer y Deyrnas Unedig gyfan, oherwydd colli’r farchnad honno oedd un o’r problemau a arweiniodd at y cyfwng trist hwn heddiw.
We must ask about interest rates. However, we should compliment what is happening at the moment. We do not want a strategy that will destabilise economic successes that have produced a dramatic reduction in youth and long-term unemployment, which I see from day to day on the streets of my village. We must act in a measured way and not jeopardise past successes. It is too simplistic to think that marginal fiddling with interest rates would have prevented this dismal day in Wales, not least because of the efforts of the Federal Reserve of the United States of America. The European Central Bank intervened massively on a number of occasions to affect the exchange rate and failed in its efforts. We need a holistic response to the crisis that we face today. There is a sense of solidarity across Wales today that we must work together to achieve joint solutions. If we can maintain that sense of solidarity and cohesiveness, there will hopefully be better days to come.
Rhaid inni holi ynglŷn â chyfraddau llog. Fodd bynnag, dylem ganmol yr hyn sydd yn digwydd ar hyn o bryd. Nid ydym am gael strategaeth a fydd yn ansefydlogi llwyddiannau economaidd sydd wedi arwain at ostyngiad dramatig mewn diweithdra ymhlith ieuenctid a’r rhai a fu’n ddi-waith ers amser, ac a welaf o ddydd i ddydd ar strydoedd fy mhentref. Rhaid inni weithredu mewn ffordd bwyllog a pheidio â pheryglu llwyddiannau’r gorffennol. Mae’n rhy syml meddwl y byddai mân newidiadau i’r cyfraddau llog wedi atal y diwrnod trist hwn yng Nghymru, nid lleiaf oherwydd ymdrechion Cronfa Ffederal Unol Daleithiau America. Ymyrrodd Banc Canolog Ewrop i raddau helaeth iawn ar nifer o achlysuron er mwyn effeithio ar y gyfradd gyfnewid a methodd yn ei ymdrechion. Mae angen ymateb cyfannol i’r argyfwng a wynebwn heddiw. Mae ymdeimlad o undod ledled Cymru heddiw bod yn rhaid inni gydweithio i ddod o hyd i atebion ar y cyd. Os gallwn gynnal yr ymdeimlad hwnnw o undod a chydlyniad, gobeithiaf y daw dyddiau gwell
It is clear from today’s debate that the hearts of everyone in Wales go out to the workers at Corus and to the sub-contractors. Peter Law thought that these plans had been underway for a long time, and the workers certainly seem to think so. However, it is remarkable that, despite those thoughts and the demoralisation that they must have caused, the workers continued to work at a remarkably high rate of productivity. The news is worse for South Wales East than for South Wales West. It is comparatively good for Port Talbot, where only mothballed lines will be closed down. Present jobs are not being lost at that plant, although the future potential of jobs is affected. Nevertheless, the future of the whole steel making process in Wales is weakened by today’s announcement.
Mae’n amlwg o’r ddadl heddiw bod pawb yng Nghymru yn cydymdeimlo â’r gweithwyr yn Corus a’r is-gontractwyr. Yr oedd Peter Law yn credu bod y cynlluniau hyn wedi bod ar y gweill ers peth amser, a dyna, yn sicr yw barn y gweithwyr hynny. Fodd bynnag, mae’n rhyfeddol bod y gweithwyr wedi parhau i weithio ar raddfa ryfeddol o uchel o ran cynhyrchiant, er gwaethaf y teimladau hynny a’r digalondid y mae’n rhaid eu bod wedi ei achosi. Mae’r newyddion yn waeth i Ddwyrain De Cymru nag i Orllewin De Cymru. Mae’n gymharol dda i Bort Talbot, lle mai dim ond llinellau lle y rhoddwyd y gorau i gynhyrchu dros dro a fydd yn cau. Ni chollir swyddi presennol yn y gwaith hwnnw, er yr effeithir ar bosibiliadau swyddi ar gyfer y dyfodol. Serch hynny, mae cyhoeddiad heddiw wedi gwanychu dyfodol y broses gyfan o wneud dur yng Nghymru.
Edwina spoke of Bryngwyn in Gorseinon, which is part of her constituency and of the region that I represent. It is bad news for that community, as today’s job losses are in addition to those announced last week at Valeo.
Siaradodd Edwina am Fryngwyn yng Ngorseinon, sydd yn rhan o’i hetholaeth ac o’r rhanbarth a gynrychiolaf fi. Mae’n newyddion drwg i’r gymuned honno, am fod y swyddi a gollir heddiw yn ychwanegol at y rheini a gyhoeddwyd yr wythnos diwethaf yn Valeo.
Peter Law also spoke of the need for quality jobs. This is not represented in the figures for jobs created and lost. Occasionally, good quality jobs are created, as we recently saw in Swansea. However, the jobs created are often low-wage and even more insecure than those that have been lost. Ironically, this has the potential of driving people to south-east England. That area is already overcrowded and a coast-to-coast housing carpet is growing there. Therefore, this announcement is not good for south-east England either.
Siaradodd Peter Law hefyd am yr angen am swyddi o ansawdd da. Ni welir hyn yn y ffigurau ar gyfer swyddi a grëwyd ac a gollwyd. Ar brydiau, caiff swyddi o ansawdd da eu creu, fel y gwelsom yn Abertawe yn ddiweddar. Fodd bynnag, mae’r swyddi a gaiff eu creu yn aml yn rhai ag iddynt gyflog isel ac sydd hyd yn oed yn llai diogel na’r rheini a gollwyd. Yn eironig, mae hyn yn gyrru pobl i dde-ddwyrain Lloegr. Mae’r ardal honno eisoes yn orboblog ac mae carped o dai yn ymestyn o un arfordir i’r llall. Felly, nid yw’r cyhoeddiad hwn yn dda i dde-ddwyrain Lloegr ychwaith.
In these circumstances, it is well over time for Gordon Brown to announce regional assistance. If he will not do anything about the strong pound—which Brian said would not be effective anyway—and as he has not yet made a move to join the euro, only regional assistance can safeguard jobs in areas such as Wales, the north of England and Scotland. There is a budget surplus of £16 billion, compared to which Objective 1 money is small beer. The Assembly and the UK Government should call on companies and other bodies in Britain that import steel to rethink their policy for their own long-term welfare. For example, although this affects the north of England rather than Wales, it is unacceptable for the publicly-owned London underground to continue to buy track from Austria as it has done in the past, when perfectly good track is produced in the north of England. Other speakers have mentioned action for the future. We should ensure that any action taken is effective and that the money that goes towards this is within the ballpark figures of what we are losing, and not a small amount.
Yn yr amgylchiadau hyn, mae’n hen bryd i Gordon Brown gyhoeddi cymorth rhanbarthol. Os na wnaiff unrhyw beth am y bunt gref—y dywedodd Brian na fyddai’n effeithiol beth bynnag—a chan nad yw eto wedi cymryd cam i ymuno â’r ewro, dim ond cymorth rhanbarthol all ddiogelu swyddi mewn ardaloedd fel Cymru, gogledd Lloegr a’r Alban. Mae £16 biliwn o arian dros ben yn y gyllideb ac, o’i gymharu â hynny, mae arian Amcan 1 yn bitw. Dylai’r Cynulliad a Llywodraeth y DU alw ar gwmnïau a chyrff eraill ym Mhrydain sydd yn mewnforio dur i ailystyried eu polisïau er eu lles tymor hir eu hunain. Er enghraifft, er yr effeithia hyn ar ogledd Lloegr yn hytrach na Chymru, mae’n annerbyniol bod trên danddaearol Llundain, sydd yn eiddo cyhoeddus, yn parhau i brynu traciau o Awstria fel ag y gwnaeth yn y gorffennol, pan gynhyrchir traciau da yng ngogledd Lloegr. Soniodd siaradwyr eraill am weithredu ar gyfer y dyfodol. Dylem sicrhau bod unrhyw gamau a gymerir yn effeithiol a bod yr arian sydd yn mynd tuag at hyn o fewn ffigurau cyffredinol yr hyn a gollwn, ac nid swm bach.
As previous speakers have said, it will take many years for Wales to recover from this tragedy, which has ripped the heart from many communities across the country. Since 1945, we have relied on the power of Government to intervene in crisis-hit industries and to take action to assist beleaguered communities. The growing international and global nature of business has lessened the impact that the Government can make by way of traditional subsidies. An European ruling has also affected the lawfulness of those subsidies, particularly in relation to the steel industry.
Fel y dywedodd siaradwyr blaenorol, fe gymer blynyddoedd lawer i Gymru godi ar ei thraed ar ôl y drasiedi hon, sydd wedi dwyn calon llawer o gymunedau ledled y wlad. Ers 1945, yr ydym wedi dibynnu ar bŵer y Llywodraeth i ymyrryd â diwydiannau sydd mewn argyfwng ac i gymryd camau i gynorthwyo cymunedau mewn trafferthion. Mae natur gynyddol ryngwladol a byd-eang busnesau wedi lleihau’r effaith y gall y Llywodraeth ei chael drwy gymorthdaliadau traddodiadol. Effeithiodd dyfarniad Ewropeaidd hefyd ar gyfreithlondeb y cymorthdaliadau hynny, yn enwedig mewn perthynas â’r diwydiant dur.
Nevertheless, had Corus management been prepared to talk, the package offered by the UK Government and the Assembly could have gone a long way towards ameliorating this decision. Instead, we see the closure of highly efficient plants, with skilled workers discarded, by city suits who do not seem to have got to grips with the industry that they run.
Serch hynny, pe bai rheolwyr Corus wedi bod yn barod i siarad, gallai’r pecyn a gynigiodd Llywodraeth y DU a’r Cynulliad fod wedi gwneud llawer i helpu i leddfu’r penderfyniad hwn. Yn lle hynny, gwelwn weithfeydd hynod effeithlon yn cau, gyda gweithwyr medrus yn cael eu taflu o’r neilltu, gan bobl y ddinas nad ymddengys eu bod wedi deall y diwydiant a redant.
My sympathy and concern lies with the many families hit by this announcement and also with those who, in future months, find that they too will lose their jobs as a consequence. The closure of Bryngwyn in Gorseinon most directly affects the area that I represent. As Janet said, the cumulative effect when you add on the job losses at Valeo is particularly tragic for that community. It is important now that we seek sufficient resources from the UK Government to try to help those who have been so coldly discarded by Corus. We also need to seek further talks with Corus regarding its remaining operations in Wales. I am concerned, in particular, at the viability of the deep harbour facility at Port Talbot, which relies on other plants, now closed, for its business. Perhaps you can respond to that concern, Rhodri, when you reply to this debate.
Mae fy nghydymdeimlad a’m pryder yn gorwedd gyda’r teuluoedd lawer a gafodd eu bwrw gan y cyhoeddiad hwn a hefyd y rheini a fydd, yn y misoedd i ddod, hefyd yn colli eu swyddi o ganlyniad i hyn. Cau gweithfeydd Bryngwyn yng Ngorseinon a gaiff yr effaith fwyaf uniongyrchol ar yr ardal a gynrychiolaf. Fel y dywedodd Janet, mae’r effaith gynyddol ar y gymuned honno yn arbennig o drychinebus pan ychwanegwch y swyddi a gollir yn Valeo. Mae’n bwysig yn awr ein bod yn cael adnoddau digonol gan Lywodraeth y DU i geisio helpu’r rheini a gafodd eu taflu o’r neilltu mewn ffordd mor oeraidd gan Corus. Mae angen inni hefyd drafod ymhellach â Corus o ran y gweithrediadau sydd ar ôl ganddo yng Nghymru. Yr wyf yn arbennig o bryderus ynghylch ymarferoldeb yr harbwr dwfn ym Mhort Talbot, sydd yn dibynnu ar weithfeydd eraill, sydd bellach wedi cau, i gynnal ei fusnes. Efallai y gallwch ymateb i’r pryder hwnnw, Rhodri, pan atebwch y ddadl hon.
Like others, I am also concerned at the impact of the level of the pound on Welsh manufacturing industry. However, it seems that other factors also played a part in this decision. The Welsh Government did everything possible to prevent this decision today, but it seems that the Corus management was not prepared to listen. We have heard about the impact of so-called red tape on Welsh business. However, when an offer to remove some of those burdens was made, Corus rejected it. It ultimately did not believe that this red tape was an obstacle. Its concern, it seems, was for its own profit, not for the communities that it is now devastating. Its form of capitalism does not belong in the twenty-first century. It lies in the nineteenth century.
Fel eraill, yr wyf hefyd yn bryderus am effaith lefel y bunt ar y diwydiant gweithgynhyrchu yng Nghymru. Fodd bynnag, ymddengys bod ffactorau eraill wedi chwarae rhan yn y penderfyniad hwn hefyd. Gwnaeth Llywodraeth Cymru bopeth posibl i atal y penderfyniad hwn heddiw, ond ymddengys nad oedd rheolwyr Corus yn barod i wrando. Clywsom am effaith biwrocratiaeth fondigrybwyll ar fusnesau yng Nghymru. Fodd bynnag, pan wnaethpwyd cynnig i gael gwared ar rai o’r beichiau hynny, fe’i gwrthodwyd gan Corus. Yn y pen draw ni chredai fod y fiwrocratiaeth hon yn rhwystr. Ymddengys ei fod yn pryderu mwy ynghylch ei elw ei hun, nid am y cymunedau y mae yn awr yn eu distrywio. Nid yw ei ffurf ar gyfalafiaeth yn perthyn i’r unfed ganrif ar hugain. Mae’n perthyn i’r bedwaredd ganrif ar bymtheg.
What has happened today is unacceptable and unpalatable. Corus has handed the task of rebuilding to us, apparently washing its hands of the future of those hit by this decision. I hope that we will see further statements from the Government on how we are to take that burden forward. This tragedy must not bow us. We must respond with the full force of the powers and resources available to us and to the UK Government to help those affected.
Mae’r hyn a ddigwyddodd heddiw yn annerbyniol ac yn annymunol. Trosglwyddodd Corus y gwaith o ailadeiladu i ni, gan olchi ei ddwylo, yn ôl pob tebyg, o ddyfodol y rheini a gafodd eu heffeithio gan y penderfyniad hwn. Gobeithiaf y gwelwn ddatganiadau pellach gan y Llywodraeth ar y ffordd i symud y faich hon yn ei blaen. Rhaid i’r drasiedi hon beidio â’n crymu. Rhaid inni ymateb gyda nerth llawn y pwerau a’r adnoddau sydd ar gael inni a Llywodraeth y DU i helpu’r rhai yr effeithir arnynt.
I have been moved by the speeches that I have heard today following the devastating news that has hit Wales. I was born in Brymbo, and many of my relatives who worked in Brymbo steelworks were also wiped out. I know full well the feelings that many of those people who have lost their jobs must be experiencing this morning. Whenever you return to Brymbo, the people there still have a fierce pride in the work that they did, and still tell you about the quality of steel that they produced there. For a lifetime’s work, many of these people will have lost their jobs this morning.
Fe’m cyffyrddwyd gan yr areithiau a glywais heddiw yn dilyn y newyddion ysgytwol a darodd Gymru. Fe’m ganwyd ym Mrymbo, ac mae llawer o’m perthnasau a weithiai yng ngweithfeydd dur Brymbo wedi dioddef hefyd. Gwn yn dda am y teimladau sydd gan lawer o’r bobl hynny a gollodd eu swyddi y bore yma. Pa bryd bynnag y dychwelwch i Frymbo, mae’r bobl yno yn dal i ymfalchïo’n fawr yn y gwaith a gyflawnasant, ac yn dal i ddweud wrthych am ansawdd y dur a gynhyrchasant yno. Am waith oes, bydd llawer o’r bobl hyn wedi colli eu swyddi y bore yma.
I only wish to emphasise one thing to Rhodri. I listened carefully to what Alison Halford said about the Shotton workers in north Wales. I am not saying that we in the Assembly have ignored Shotton, but that a feeling exists in that part of Wales. It came across strongly to us when I, along with four Labour Assembly Members, met union leaders last Friday. My message, Rhodri, is, for goodness sake, make sure that Shotton is remembered and is helped just as much as Llanwern, Ebbw Vale and everywhere else that has lost jobs today. North Wales was disappointed that it did not seem to be involved in the initial closure talks. We must ensure that we recognise all workers right across Wales.
Hoffwn bwysleisio dim ond un peth i Rhodri. Gwrandewais yn ofalus ar yr hyn a ddywedodd Alison Halford am weithwyr Shotton yng ngogledd Cymru. Ni ddywedaf ein bod ni yn y Cynulliad wedi anwybyddu Shotton, ond bod teimlad yn bodoli yn y rhan honno o Gymru. Daeth drosodd yn gryf inni pan gyfarfûm, ynghyd â phedwar Aelod Llafur o’r Cynulliad, ag arweinwyr yr undebau ddydd Gwener diwethaf. Fy neges, Rhodri, yw, er mwyn dyn, gwnewch yn siŵr y cofir am Shotton ac y caiff gymaint o help â Llanwern, Glynebwy a phob man arall a gollodd swyddi heddiw. Yr oedd gogledd Cymru yn siomedig nad ymddengys ei bod wedi bod yn rhan o’r trafodaethau gwreiddiol ynglŷn â chau. Rhaid inni sicrhau ein bod yn cydnabod yr holl weithwyr ledled Cymru.
My reaction, as that of everyone else in this Chamber, is one of shock at the scale of the human, social and economic tragedy that this represents for Wales. It is not surprising that many of us cast our minds back to our previous experiences of steel, and our experiences of the impact of something like this. I remember that my first years at Shelter Cymru coincided with the massive steel closures, and the massive job losses in Port Talbot in particular. I remember well the appalling frustration and desperation of the people who lost their homes because they could not keep up payments on their mortgages, because they could not find other jobs and the spiral of decline and poverty into which that cast them. I also remember during my years at the Equal Opportunities Commission, the women who became the sole breadwinners because the men so often did not find other work. It was either because they did not have the confidence or because it was difficult for them to adapt their skills to the kind of work available.
Fy ymateb i, fel un pawb arall yn y Siambr hon, yw un o sioc o weld graddfa’r drasiedi ddynol, cymdeithasol ac economaidd a olyga hyn i Gymru. Nid yw’n syndod bod llawer ohonom yn bwrw golwg yn ôl i’n profiadau blaenorol o ddur, a’n profiadau o effaith rhywbeth fel hyn. Yr oedd fy mlynyddoedd cynnar yn Shelter Cymru yn cyd-daro â chau gweithfeydd dur ar raddfa eang, a cholli nifer fawr o swyddi ym Mhort Talbot yn arbennig. Cofiaf yn dda rwystredigaeth ac anobaith dychrynllyd y bobl a gollodd eu cartrefi am na allent dalu eu morgeisi, am na allent ddod o hyd i swyddi eraill a’r cynnydd graddol o ran dirywiad a thlodi a ddaeth yn sgîl hynny. Cofiaf hefyd yn ystod fy mlynyddoedd yn y Comisiwn Cyfle Cyfartal, y gwragedd a oedd yn ennill cyflog i gynnal teuluoedd am nad oedd y dynion yn aml yn dod o hyd i waith arall. Yr oedd hyn naill ai am nad oedd ganddynt yr hyder neu am eu bod yn cael anhawster i addasu eu sgiliau i’r math o waith a oedd ar gael.
I remember, less than two years ago, the great hype and grand words, when the British Steel Corporation merged with Koninklijke Hoogovens to become Corus. I remember all the promises that were made. I was struck by Janet Ryder’s example of this extraordinary, grotesque newspaper advertisement. I am not sure if I am right, but my recollection is that Corus sent us letters when it was first established, which told us many great things about what it meant for the security of the steel industry in Wales. I imagine that we all received those letters. I also recall that the choice of the word ‘Corus’, a new title, was to give new heart to the steel industry. Am I right? It is shocking that we find ourselves in this position.
Lai na dwy flynedd yn ôl, cofiaf y brolio a’r geiriau crand, pan unodd y Gorfforaeth Ddur Brydeinig â Koninklijke Hoogovens i ffurfio Corus. Cofiaf yr holl addewidion a wnaethpwyd. Rhyfeddais at yr enghraifft a roddodd Jane Ryder o’r hysbyseb anhygoel, gwrthun hwn mewn papur newydd. Nid wyf yn siŵr a wyf yn iawn, ond cofiaf fod Corus wedi anfon llythyrau atom pan sefydlwyd ef yn dweud llawer o bethau mawr wrthym ynglŷn â’r hyn a olygai i sicrwydd y diwydiant dur yng Nghymru. Dychmygaf fod pawb ohonom wedi derbyn y llythyrau hynny. Cofiaf hefyd mai pwrpas dewis y gair ‘Corus’, teitl newydd, oedd rhoi calon newydd i’r diwydiant dur. A ydw i’n iawn? Mae’n warthus ein bod wedi cyrraedd y fath sefyllfa.
I draw four conclusions in terms of what I regard as the most important issues. As an Assembly Member, I will seek to influence and pursue these issues. First, I agree with those who say that we must fight this. I know that we will probably not turn this decision around, because much effort has gone into fighting it so far. However, we must look at how we can resist the extent of these cuts and their impact on our communities. We must consider possible solutions for keeping steel production in Wales.
Dof i bedwar casgliad o ran yr hyn a ystyriaf fel y materion pwysicaf. Fel Aelod o’r Cynulliad, ceisiaf ddylanwadu ar y materion hyn a’u canlyn. Yn gyntaf, cytunaf â’r rheini a ddywed fod yn rhaid inni ymladd yn erbyn hyn. Gwn na fyddwn fwy na thebyg yn gwyrdroi’r penderfyniad hwn, oherwydd gwnaethpwyd llawer o ymdrech i ymladd yn ei erbyn mor belled. Fodd bynnag, rhaid inni edrych ar y modd y gallwn wrthsefyll maint y toriadau hyn a’u heffaith ar ein cymunedau. Rhaid inni ystyried atebion posibl i barhau i gynhyrchu dur yng Nghymru.
I do not agree with Dafydd Wigley on nationalisation, because I remember—as a long-standing member of the Labour Party—the political battles about nationalising or de-nationalising steel. It was not healthy. It is not healthy now, and the current European regulations on state aids for steel do not make nationalisation a viable option. Therefore, it is not helpful for us to put that forward as an option. However, I believe that Dafydd is right about yesterday’s announcement on Dŵr Cymru. I believe that what has happened offers us the opportunity to confidently consider alternative ways to retain at least some steel production in Wales in Welsh hands. I hope that you will explore this, First Minister, with the DTI and the trade unions and actively support those options.
Ni chytunaf â Dafydd Wigley ar wladoli, oherwydd cofiaf—fel aelod o’r Blaid Lafur ers tro—yr ymgyrchoedd gwleidyddol yn ymwneud â gwladoli neu ddadwladoli dur. Nid oedd yn iach. Nid yw’n iach yn awr, ac nid yw rheoliadau cyfredol Ewrop ar gymhorthion y wladwriaeth ar gyfer dur yn gwneud gwladoli yn ddewis ymarferol. Felly, nid yw’n ddefnyddiol inni gynnig hynny fel opsiwn. Fodd bynnag, credaf fod Dafydd yn iawn ynglŷn â chyhoeddiad ddoe am Dŵr Cymru. Credaf fod yr hyn a ddigwyddodd yn cynnig cyfle inni ystyried yn hyderus ffyrdd amgen i gadw o leiaf rhywfaint o gynhyrchu dur yng Nghymru yn nwylo Cymreig. Gobeithiaf yr archwiliwch hyn, Brif Weinidog, gyda’r Adran Masnach a Diwydiant a’r undebau llafur ac y cefnogwch yr opsiynau hynny’n frwd.
Secondly—and I strongly say this as a member of the Welsh Labour Party—we must fight hard within the party and, as an administration and Assembly, to argue strongly for legislation that will protect workers in the future. When a modern company or industry wishes to act like the steel and iron masters of the past, the Welsh Labour Party, and all political parties in Wales, must stand firmly on the side of the workforce. This is where we belong. We must fight for this. Labour must use its position of Government, both here and nationally, to secure legislation that will create a level playing field across Europe to ensure that we never again face the prospect of failing to obtain information, before our workers so easily and summarily lose their jobs.
Yn ail— a dywedaf hyn yn gadarn fel aelod o Blaid Lafur Cymru—rhaid inni ymladd yn galed o fewn y blaid a dadlau’n gryf, fel gweinyddiaeth a Chynulliad, o blaid deddfwriaeth a fydd yn diogelu gweithwyr yn y dyfodol. Pan fydd cwmni neu ddiwydiant modern yn gweithredu fel Meistri haearn a dur y gorffennol, rhaid i Blaid Lafur Cymru, a’r holl bleidiau gwleidyddol yng Nghymru, sefyll yn gadarn o blaid y gweithlu. Dyma lle yr ydym yn perthyn. Rhaid inni ymladd dros hyn. Rhaid i Lafur ddefnyddio ei safle yn y Llywodraeth, yma ac yn genedlaethol, i sicrhau deddfwriaeth a fydd yn creu maes chwarae gwastad ledled Ewrop i sicrhau na fyddwn byth eto’n wynebu’r posibilrwydd o fethu â chael gwybodaeth, cyn y bydd ein gweithwyr yn colli eu swyddi mor hawdd a diseremoni.
Rosemary is right. This is an emotional day. There has been much poignancy. As I drove to the Assembly this morning, I listened to the radio and heard workers in the Welsh steel industry talk about the agony of the last two weeks. One of them said ‘The whispering is the worst. Not knowing.’ Others talked about the company playing with people’s lives. Others spoke about how they had been told that working practices had to change, so they changed the working practices. Then they said that the working practices had to change again, so they changed them again. Then they said ‘your working practices are not good enough, you are going anyway’. We must stand up to that and use our position to secure legislation that will prevent that happening again.
Mae Rosemary yn iawn. Mae hwn yn ddiwrnod emosiynol. Cafwyd llawer o ing Wrth yrru i’r Cynulliad y bore yma, gwrandewais ar y radio a chlywed gweithwyr yn yn y diwydiant dur yng Nghymru yn siarad am boen y bythefnos diwethaf. Dywedodd un ohonynt ‘The whispering is the worst. Not knowing.’ Siaradodd eraill am y cwmni’n chwarae â bywydau pobl. Dywedodd eraill am y ffordd y’u hysbyswyd bod arferion gweithio’n gorfod newid, felly newidiasant arferion gweithio. Yna dywedasant fod yn rhaid i’r arferion gweithio newid eto, ac felly newidiwyd hwy eto. Yna dywedasant ‘nid yw eich arferion gwaith yn ddigon da, rhaid ichi fynd beth bynnag’. Rhaid inni wrthwynebu hynny a defnyddio ein sefyllfa i sicrhau deddfwriaeth a fydd yn atal hynny rhag digwydd eto.
Thirdly, we must work actively with the trade unions in the development of our economic strategy. David Jenkins from the Wales TUC was yesterday at the Economic Development Committee. Throughout we must work with the trade unions so that we gather that intelligence in all sectors, particularly in manufacturing in Wales. Finally, Rhodri, we must make it as difficult as possible for Corus to extract itself from Wales. We should do everything we can to secure money from Corus to meet the cost of this devastation. We should argue strenuously with the Department of Trade and Industry for additional help from central Government, the case for which is overwhelming.
Yn drydydd, rhaid inni weithio’n frwd gyda’r undebau llafur i ddatblygu ein strategaeth economaidd. Yr oedd David Jenkins o Gyngres Undebau Llafur Cymru yn y Pwyllgor Datblygu Economaidd ddoe. Rhaid inni weithio gyda’r undebau llafur drwyddi draw fel ein bod yn casglu’r deallusrwydd hwnnw ym mhob sector, yn arbennig mewn gweithgynhyrchu yng Nghymru. Yn olaf, Rhodri, rhaid inni ei gwneud mor anodd â phosibl i Corus dynnu allan o Gymru. Dylem wneud popeth a allwn i sicrhau arian gan Corus i gwrdd â chost y chwalfa hon. Dylem ddadlau’n egnïol â’r Adran Masnach a Diwydiant am help ychwanegol gan y Llywodraeth ganolog, ac mae’r achos dros hynny’n llethol.
I have received uncorroborated information that Corus is recruiting in Holland. I ask Val to join me in seeking an investigation to establish if that is the case, and if that further puts Welsh jobs at risk, that some urgent action is taken by this Executive and by the UK Government.
Cefais wybodaeth sydd heb ei gadarnhau bod Corus yn recriwtio yn yr Iseldiroedd. Gofynnaf i Val ymuno â mi wrth geisio ymchwiliad i ganfod a yw hynny’n wir, ac os yw hynny’n rhoi swyddi yng Nghymru mewn mwy o berygl, y dylai’r Weithrediaeth hon a Llywodraeth y DU weithredu ar fyrder.
We should ask our MEPs and central Government to demand explanations. Frankly, William, this cannot be a surprise to us. It has been patently clear that Corus wanted to concentrate production and work in Holland. Let us face it. We knew that this was going to happen. The speed with which it has moved reaffirms our view that this is a company that had profit as objectives numbers one, two, three and four with no interest whatsoever in the long-term importance of its product.
Dylem ofyn i’n haelodau yn Senedd Ewrop a’r Llywodraeth ganolog i fynnu esboniadau. Mewn gwirionedd, William, ni all hyn fod yn syndod inni. Bu’n hollol amlwg fod Corus am ganolbwyntio ar gynhyrchu dur a’i weithfeydd yn yr Iseldiroedd. Gadewch inni wynebu hynny. Gwyddem fod hyn yn mynd i ddigwydd. Mae cyflymdra digwyddiadau yn cadarnhau ein safbwynt fod hwn yn gwmni lle yr oedd elw yn brif amcan, heb unrhyw diddordeb o gwbl ym mhwysigrwydd tymor hir ei gynnyrch.
Finally, in my capacity as Chair of the Economic Development Committee—I am sure that other members of the Committee will support me—I say that the Committee must give as much time as it takes to ensure that the packages of support that are put in place will work. They should give people the skills for the jobs that are available, and the confidence and the practical support—of cars, driving lessons or whatever it needs—to help them find other jobs. We must also ensure that we press ahead with our national economic development strategy and that the programmes that we have in place bring jobs to the places that need them. I agree with Phil about the need for the Assembly to consider the strategic siting of public institutions to bring some hope back to the communities that so desperately need that lift. We have a huge amount of work to do from today, but the most important message that must go from Assembly Members is that we stand side by side with this workforce, and that we will do everything that we can to help. We are not able to stop what Corus has done but we can make it clear where our solidarity lies.
Yn olaf, yn rhinwedd fy swydd fel Cadeirydd y Pwyllgor Datblygu Economaidd—yr wyf yn siŵr y bydd aelodau eraill y Pwyllgor yn fy nghefnogi—dywedaf fod yn rhaid i’r Pwyllgor roi cymaint o amser ag y gymer i sicrhau y bydd y pecynnau cymorth a gynigir yn gweithio. Dylent roi’r sgiliau i’r bobl ar gyfer y swyddi sydd ar gael, a’r hyder a’r gefnogaeth ymarferol—boed yn geir, gwersi gyrru neu beth bynnag fydd ei angen—i’w helpu i ddod o hyd i swyddi eraill. Rhaid inni hefyd sicrhau ein bod yn dal ati gyda’n strategaeth datblygu economaidd genedlaethol a bod y rhaglenni sydd gennym yn dod â swyddi i’r mannau sydd eu hangen. Cytunaf â Phil ynglŷn â’r angen i’r Cynulliad ystyried lleoli sefydliadau cyhoeddus yn strategol er mwyn dod â rhywfaint o obaith yn ôl i’r cymunedau y mae cymaint o angen yr hwb hwnnw arnynt. Mae gennym waith anferthol i’w wneud o heddiw ymlaen, ond y neges bwysicaf gan Aelodau’r Cynulliad yw ein bod yn sefyll ochr yn ochr â’r gweithlu hwn, ac y byddwn yn gwneud popeth a allwn i helpu. Ni allwn atal yr hyn a wnaeth Corus ond gallwn ei gwneud yn glir ymhle y safwn ar hyn.
Today is not a grey day, it is black. I express my deepest sympathy to all the employees and their families and all the communities throughout Wales where there is devastation at this news. I have said before that residents, constituents, neighbours and friends have knocked on my door asking about any whisperings of what we have heard in news reports today. I am not happy to talk to them at the moment because I have nothing positive to say. The future is not bright. I worked at Llanwern when I was a chemical engineer, on the coke ovens, in the sinter plants and I designed a gas sampling probe to go into the tuyère of the blast furnace. I have first-hand experience of the steelworks, the camaraderie, the ‘big family’ effect, and of its effect on communities. I am, therefore, very concerned. Ebbw Vale’s rugby team is called the steelmen. Ripping the heart out of a town such as Ebbw Vale has wider implications, that we have not yet forseen.
Nid yw heddiw’n ddiwrnod dan gwmwl, mae’n ddu. Cydymdeimlaf yn ddwys iawn â’r holl weithwyr a’u teuluoedd a’r holl gymunedau ledled Cymru lle mae’r newyddion hwn wedi bod yn dorcalonnus. Dywedais o’r blaen fod trigolion, etholwyr, cymdogion a chyfeillion wedi bod yn curo ar fy nrws yn gofyn am unrhyw sibrydion am yr hyn a glywsom mewn adroddiadau newyddion heddiw. Nid wyf yn hapus i siarad â hwy ar hyn o bryd gan nad oes gennyf unrhyw beth cadarnhaol i’w ddweud. Nid yw’r dyfodol yn ddisglair. Gweithiais yn Llanwern pan oeddwn yn beiriannydd cemegol, ar y ffyrnau golosg, yn y gweithfeydd sinter a chynlluniais brofiedydd samplo nwy sydd yn mynd i mewn i ‘tuyère’ y ffwrnais chwyth. Mae gennyf brofiad uniongyrchol o’r gweithfeydd dur, y cyfeillgarwch, yr effaith ‘un teulu mawr’, a’u heffaith ar gymunedau. Yr wyf, felly, yn bryderus iawn. Gelwir tîm rygbi Glynebwy yn ddynion dur. Mae goblygiadau ehangach i rwygo calon tref fel Glynebwy, nad ydym eto wedi eu rhagweld.
The impact of these closures is worrying. We know of the multiplier effect on the small and medium-sized industries that support a steelworks, or any large employer. Given a multiplier of 4, loosing 3,000 jobs means that a great number of people and families will be affected by a decision that does not have Wales’s, or the manufacturing industry’s best interests at heart. I am also concerned about the domino effect. When one industry after another, particularly in manufacturing, sees that there are difficulties in one area, it reduces the confidence of those industries in our communities and workforce. I agree with David Davies when he said that, while sympathising with these losses, it is important that we carry out our huge task to sell Wales and our workforce’s efficiency, innovativeness and productivity and work ethic.
Mae effaith cau’r holl weithfeydd hyn yn bryderus. Gwyddom am effaith y lluosogwr ar y diwydiannau bach a chanolig eu maint sydd yn cynnal gwaith dur, neu unrhyw gyflogwr mawr. O ystyried lluosogwr o 4, mae colli 3,000 o swyddi yn golygu yr effeithir ar nifer fawr o bobl a theuluoedd gan benderfyniad nad yw’n ystyried lles gorau Cymru na’r diwydiant gweithgynhyrchu. Yr wyf hefyd yn bryderus ynghylch yr effaith ddomino. Pan fydd un diwydiant ar ôl y llall, yn arbennig mewn gweithgynhyrchu, yn gweld anawsterau mewn un maes, mae’n lleihau hyder y diwydiannau hynny yn ein cymunedau a’n gweithlu. Cytunaf â David Davies pan ddywedodd, er ein bod yn cydymdeimlo â’r colledion hyn, ei bod yn bwysig ein bod yn cyflawni ein tasg anferthol o werthu Cymru ac effeithlonrwydd, arloesedd a chynhyrchiant ein gweithlu a’n hetheg waith.
Last autumn, the steel industry lobbied Assembly Members repeatedly. I find it incongruent that, when we try to lobby it and secure support for the industry, it is nowhere to be seen and does not want to talk to us. During the Economic Development Committee’s meeting yesterday, we discussed an innovative manufacturing strategy by the Trades Union Congress. It included good practice in partnership, where employees and management come together to understand their differences, work on them and forge ahead continuous improvement. In Japanese industrial circles that is called kaizen, which means continuous stepwise improvement. That is important, but obviously, Corus has not heard about it.
Hydref diwethaf, lobïodd y diwydiant dur Aelodau’r Cynulliad dro ar ôl tro. Teimlaf ei bod yn anghyson, pan geisiwn lobïo a sicrhau cefnogaeth i’r diwydiant, nad yw ar gael ac yn dymuno siarad â ni. Yn ystod y cyfarfod o’r Pwyllgor Datblygu Economaidd ddoe, trafodasom strategaeth weithgynhyrchu flaengar gan Gynghrair yr Undebau Llafur. Cynhwysai arfer da mewn partneriaeth, lle daw gweithwyr a’r rheolwyr at ei gilydd i ddeall eu gwahaniaethau, gweithio arnynt a mynd ati i gyflawni gwelliant parhaus. Yng nghylchoedd diwydiannol Siapan fe’i gelwir yn ‘kaizen’, sydd yn golygu gwelliant parhaus fesul cam. Mae hynny’n bwysig, ond yn amlwg, nid yw Corus wedi clywed amdano.
It is interesting to note Corus’s ideology. On the bottom of its press release today is ‘this is share-price sensitive’. That shows where its thoughts lie. Before the merger, there was a surplus of about £750 million. As John Griffiths said—and I thank him for his words and support what he said—that sum was a golden hello for shareholders, to warm them up. The merger—a word that I now question—should have been questioned to a greater extent at the time. We were lobbied to an extreme at that time and we should have considered it in greater depth. The £750 million surplus has been wiped out. You would not believe it but, as somebody said, Corus, phonetically, means ‘singing together’.
Mae’n ddiddorol nodi ideoleg Corus. Ar waelod ei ddatganiad i’r wasg heddiw ceir ‘this is share-price sensitive’. Dengys hynny ei ffordd o feddwl. Cyn yr uno, cafwyd tua £750 miliwn dros ben. Fel y dywedodd John Griffiths—a diolchaf iddo am ei eiriau a chefnogaf yr hyn a ddywedodd—yr oedd y swm hwnnw yn dâl croeso i gyfranddalwyr, i’w cynhesu. Dylid fod wedi cwestiynu’r uniad—gair a gwestiynaf yn awr—yn fwy ar y pryd. Fe’n lobïwyd i’r eithaf bryd hynny a dylem fod wedi ei ystyried yn fanylach. Dilëwyd y £750 miliwn a oedd dros ben. Ni fyddech yn credu hynny ond, fel y dywedodd rhywun, ystyr Corus yn seinegol yw ‘cydganu’.
It is important to note that Corus is servicing a debt of £1.8 billion. The company, I am told, and it can be corroborated, was buying steel on the open market. That is a great way of undermining your own manufacturing plants. What kind of signal is that to its most innovative, productive and efficient employees? Production amounts to 950 tonnes per man per year in the UK, compared to 750 tonnes in Holland. Those figures, supplied by Corus, speak loudly for themselves, yet our workers are being undermined to this extent.
Mae’n bwysig nodi bod gan Corus ddyled o £1.8 biliwn. Yr oedd y cwmni, yn ôl yr hyn a ddywedwyd wrthyf, a gellir cadarnhau hynny, yn prynu dur ar y farchnad agored. Mae hynny’n ffordd wych o danseilio eich gweithfeydd gweithgynhyrchu eich hunan. Pa fath o arwydd yw hynny i’w weithwyr mwyaf arloesol, cynhyrchiol ac effeithlon? Mae’r cynhyrchiant yn gwneud cyfanswm o 950 o dunelli fesul dyn y flwyddyn yn y DU, o’i gymharu â 750 o dunelli yn yr Iseldiroedd. Mae’r ffigurau hynny, a ddarparwyd gan Corus, yn siarad yn eglur drostynt eu hunain, eto i gyd caiff ein gweithwyr eu tanseilio i’r graddau hyn.
I am also concerned about another problem. Recent closures at various companies form a long list. When we hear about them in dribs and drabs, they do not make a big impact. They are mostly manufacturing industries, believe it or not, as well as various other industries. They are: Impress Packaging, Alcan, Kestrel Plastic Injection, Gossard, Takiron, Pioneer, AB Connectors, Dairy Crest, Valeo, Sony, Panasonic, Dewhirst and Bairdwear. These are all manufacturing industries, all getting out of Wales. I ask myself why. There must be a common reason. Even when we train technical people, for example at GE in Nantgarw, they could not find enough jobs for 36 apprentices. Even after training these people, they lost their jobs. Fortunately, three of them have found a job in the aerospace industry elsewhere. But 33 apprentices, having had four to five years’ training, are out of the industry. We are trying to talk about the future development of Wales where we are considering technical, skilled and innovative methods. I wonder what is going on.
Yr wyf hefyd yn bryderus ynghylch problem arall. Mae cwmnïau amrywiol sydd wedi cau gweithfeydd yn ddiweddar yn ffurfio rhestr hir. Pan glywn amdanynt yma ac acw, ni chânt effaith fawr. Diwydiannau gweithgynhyrchu ydynt yn bennaf, credwch neu beidio, yn ogystal ag amrywiol ddiwydiannau eraill, sef: Impress Packaging, Alcan, Kestrel Plastic Injection, Gossard, Takiron, Pioneer, AB Connectors, Dairy Crest, Valeo, Sony, Panasonic, Dewhirst a Bairdwear. Mae’r rhain i gyd yn ddiwydiannau gweithgynhyrchu, y cyfan yn gadael Cymru. Holaf fy hunan pam y digwydd hynny. Rhaid bod rheswm cyffredin. Hyd yn oed pan hyfforddwn bobl dechnegol, er enghraifft yn GE yn Nantgarw, ni allent ddod o hyd i ddigon o swyddi ar gyfer 36 o brentisiaid. Hyd yn oed ar ôl hyfforddi’r bobl hyn, collasant eu swyddi. Yn ffodus, daeth tri ohonynt o hyd i swyddi yn y diwydiant awyrofod mewn man arall. Ond mae 33 o brentisiaid, wedi cael pedair i bum mlynedd o hyfforddiant, allan o’r diwydiant. Ceisiwn siarad am ddatblygu Cymru yn y dyfodol drwy ystyried dulliau technegol, medrus ac arloesol. Beth sydd yn digwydd, tybed?
The steel industry talks about its retrained, productive, efficient, innovative and co-operative workforce. Manufacturing industries in Wales do exactly that. The companies that I have just listed have done all that, so I keep telling myself that there must be a common reason why our manufacturing industries are suffering, and suffering badly. There are probably two reasons for this. One is the strength of the pound. You would expect me to say that, but I believe that the strength of the pound is undermining our manufacturing industries. The second reason is the UK Government’s lack of commitment to the manufacturing industries, particularly in Wales. The list that I read bears this out. No matter what we do, there is not enough that can be done to make us even more competitive. We have heard Ron say that in Wales our manufacturing industries contribute 28 per cent to GDP, while in the rest of the UK—and particularly in England—it is 20 per cent. That is a statistic in itself. It shows how well we work in manufacturing. It shows our capabilities, and unfortunately it shows how the UK Government undermines us.
Siarada’r diwydiant dur am ei weithlu sydd wedi’u hailhyfforddi, sydd yn gynhyrchiol, yn effeithlon, yn arloesol ac yn gydweithredol. Mae’r diwydiannau gweithgynhyrchu yng Nghymru’n gwneud hynny’n union. Gwnaeth y cwmnïau a restrais yn awr hynny i gyd, felly yr wyf yn dal i ddweud wrthyf fy hun bod yn rhaid bod rheswm cyffredin pam bod ein diwydiannau gweithgynhyrchu yn dioddef, ac yn dioddef yn enbyd. Mae dau reswm am hyn, fwy na thebyg. Un ohonynt yw cryfder y bunt. Byddech yn disgwyl imi ddweud hynny, ond credaf fod cryfder y bunt yn tanseilio ein diwydiannau gweithgynhyrchu. Yr ail reswm yw diffyg ymrwymiad Llywodraeth y DU i’r diwydiannau gweithgynhyrchu, yn arbennig yng Nghymru. Mae’r rhestr a ddarllenais yn ategu hyn. Waeth beth a wnawn, nid oes digon y gellir ei wneud i’w gwneud hyd yn oed yn fwy cystadleuol. Clywsom Ron yn dweud y cyfranna ein diwydiannau gweithgynhyrchu yng Nghymru 28 y cant i CMC, tra yng ngweddill y DU—ac yn arbennig yn Lloegr—mae’n 20 y cant. Mae hynny’n ystadegyn ynddo’i hunan. Dengys pa mor dda y gweithiwn mewn gweithgynhyrchu. Dengys ein galluoedd, ac yn anffodus dengys y modd y mae Llywodraeth y DU yn ein tanseilio.
Last year, we were talking of GDP per capita in Wales as 83 per cent of the UK average. However, only recently it has been recalculated as 79 per cent. Where are we now? If we do a comparison and consider the monetary policies of the UK Government, south-east England’s GDP per capita is 116 per cent of the UK average. It strikes me that something is going wrong here. It needs to be brought home much stronger than we have done up until now. We need to look to the future on this. I repeat what Phil Williams has said in calling on the Prime Minister and the Chancellor to rethink the Bank of England Act 1997, to rethink the conditions put on the Bank of England that mention employment and manufacturing industries and the strength of the pound, because we cannot go on like this. No matter how innovative and productive and efficient, and how much we want to work in teams and make things, we cannot go on if the UK Government undermines us time and time again.
Y llynedd, yr oeddem yn siarad am CMC y pen yng Nghymru fel 83 y cant o gyfartaledd y DU. Fodd bynnag, dim ond yn ddiweddar y cafodd ei ailgyfrifo yn 79 y cant. Ble’r ydym yn awr? Os gwnawn gymhariaeth ac ystyried polisïau ariannol Llywodraeth y DU, CMC y pen yn ne-ddwyrain Lloegr yw 116 y cant o gyfartaledd y DU. Mae’n fy nharo i fod rhywbeth yn mynd o’i le yma. Mae angen tynnu mwy o sylw ato nag a wnaethom hyd yma. Mae angen inni edrych i’r dyfodol ar hyn. Ailadroddaf yr hyn a ddywedodd Phil Williams wrth alw ar y Prif Weinidog a’r Canghellor i ailystyried Deddf Banc Lloegr 1997, i ailystyried yr amodau a osodwyd ar Fanc Lloegr sydd yn sôn am gyflogaeth a diwydiannau gweithgynhyrchu a chryfder y bunt, oherwydd ni allwn fynd ymlaen fel hyn. Nid oes gwahaniaeth pa mor arloesol a chynhyrchiol ac effeithlon yr ydym, a chymaint y dymunwn weithio mewn timau a chreu pethau, ni allwn fynd ymlaen os yw Llywodraeth y DU yn ein tanseilio dro ar ôl tro.
Phil mentioned something that I have been kicking on about for a long time—schemes that improve accessibility to work. The rail line from Ebbw Vale, via Islwyn to Newport and Cardiff is extremely important. There is steel on it at the moment. It is steel from Llanwern that goes up to Ebbw Vale. The whole point of my pushing for this time and time again was to ensure that that line was kept going because there were two uses for it—passenger and freight. We have lost one, and I am worried about that. That says to the communities of Blaenau Gwent that we have problems. Islwyn is interesting. It is sandwiched between Blaenau Gwent and Newport. Many residents and constituents in Islwyn either work in the steelworks or in Alcan. I am told that 70 per cent of Alcan’s workforce lives in Risca and Newbridge. That shows how manufacturing industries affect not one, but many communities. We all have experience of this. Valleys people travel up and down the Valleys to get to their work and leisure.
Soniodd Phil am rywbeth y bûm yn ei drafod ers peth amser—cynlluniau sydd yn gwella hygyrchedd i waith. Mae’r rheilffordd o Lynebwy, drwy Islwyn i Gasnewydd a Chaerdydd yn eithriadol o bwysig. Mae dur arni ar hyn o bryd. O Lanwern y daw y dur a aiff i fyny i Lynebwy. Holl bwrpas gwthio am hyn dro ar ôl tro oedd sicrhau y cedwid y llinell ar agor am ei bod yn cael ei defnyddio i ddau bwrpas—cludo teithwyr a chludo nwyddau. Collasom un ohonynt, a phryderaf am hynny. Dywed hynny wrth gymunedau Blaenau Gwent fod gennym broblemau. Mae Islwyn yn ddiddorol. Mae yn y canol rhwng Blaenau Gwent a Chasnewydd. Gweithia llawer o’r trigolion a’r etholwyr yn Islwyn naill yn y gweithfeydd dur neu yn Alcan. Dywedir wrthyf fod 70 y cant o weithlu Alcan yn byw yn Rhisga a Threcelyn. Dengys hynny sut yr effeithia diwydiannau gweithgynhyrchu nid yn unig ar un, ond ar lawer o gymunedau. Mae gan bawb ohonom brofiad o hyn. Teithia pobl y Cymoedd i fyny ac i lawr y Cymoedd i fynd i’w gwaith ac i fannau hamdden.
We need to emphasise the importance of the pound to employment and manufacturing, as well as to the principle of sustainable development. Our communities need and deserve large-scale support.
Mae angen inni bwysleisio pwysigrwydd y bunt i gyflogaeth a gweithgynhyrchu, yn ogystal ag i egwyddor datblygu cynaliadwy. Mae angen cefnogaeth ar raddfa eang ar ein cymunedau a haeddant hynny.
I will make one other point. The Spanish Government is ensuring that the Spanish steel industry is successful. I call on the First Minister and his Cabinet to put pressure immediately on the UK Cabinet—the Prime Minister and the Chancellor in particular—to redress the devastating effects of the pound on the important manufacturing industries of Wales, and to consider regional selective assistance. There is a desperate need for the UK to adopt EU partnership rules to ensure that employees have a greater say in their companies.
Gwnaf un pwynt arall. Mae Llywodraeth Sbaen yn sicrhau bod y diwydiant dur yn Sbaen yn llwyddiannus. Galwaf ar Brif Weinidog Cymru a’i Gabinet i roi pwysau ar unwaith ar Gabinet y DU—y Prif Weinidog a’r Canghellor yn arbennig—i unioni effaith ddinistriol y bunt ar ddiwydiannau gweithgynhyrchu pwysig Cymru, ac i ystyried cymorth dethol rhanbarthol. Mae angen dybryd i’r DU fabwysiadu rheolau partneriaeth yr UE i sicrhau bod gweithwyr yn cael mwy o ryddid i ddweud eu barn o fewn eu cwmnïau.
Today is a day of real grieving for large swathes of Wales. Shotton has not been forgotten in this at any point. Wherever these job losses are, in the North or the South, they are cataclysmic body-blows for the families affected. We need to accept that this has nothing to do with the North or South; there is decimation in both areas. A number of Members have mentioned Brymbo. It must serve as a lesson, because no useful support was given to Brymbo at the time. Those vivid scars still exist, as they have for many years, and are only just being treated. It is important that we remember that those 10 years of depression could have been eased slightly by the problem being addressed at the time.
Mae heddiw yn ddiwrnod o alaru gwirioneddol i ardaloedd eang o Gymru. Nid anghofiwyd am Shotton yn hyn o beth ar unrhyw adeg. Pa le bynnag y collwyd y swyddi hyn, yn y Gogledd neu’r De, maent yn ergydion trychinebus i’r teuluoedd yr effeithiwyd arnynt. Mae angen inni dderbyn nad oes gan hyn unrhyw beth i’w wneud â’r Gogledd neu’r De; anrheithiwyd y ddwy ardal. Soniodd nifer o’r Aelodau am Frymbo. Rhaid dysgu gwers o hyn, oherwydd ni roddwyd unrhyw gefnogaeth ddefnyddiol i Frymbo ar y pryd. Mae’r creithiau tanbaid hynny’n dal i fodoli, fel y gwnaethant ers blynyddoedd lawer, a dim ond yn awr y cânt eu trin. Mae’n bwysig inni gofio y gellid bod wedi lleddfu rhywfaint ar y 10 mlynedd hynny o ddirwasgiad drwy ymdrin â’r broblem ar y pryd.
A huge amount of work must be done. By and large, today’s debate has risen above party politics, which is right and proper. This is about people losing their jobs, not party politics. It is important that we explore and exploit every possible avenue, and Ron, Rhodri and others spoke about those possibilities.
Rhaid gwneud gwaith enfawr ar hyn. Ar y cyfan, cododd dadl heddiw uwchlaw gwleidyddiaeth pleidiau, sydd yn iawn ac yn gyfiawn. Mae hyn yn ymwneud â phobl yn colli eu swyddi, nid â gwleidyddiaeth pleidiau. Mae’n bwysig ein bod yn archwilio ac yn mynd i lawr pob llwybr posibl, a siaradodd Ron, Rhodri ac eraill am y posibiliadau hynny.
Our sympathy is with the workers today. From tomorrow, it is imperative that our actions work for them and that those actions will be effective for as long as necessary.
Mae ein cydymdeimlad heddiw â’r gweithwyr. O yfory ymlaen, mae’n holl bwysig bod y camau a gymerwn yn gweithio iddynt ac y bydd y camau hynny yn effeithiol am cyhyd ag sydd angen.
I speak as an Assembly Member and as an inhabitant of Montgomeryshire. That area of mid Wales is unlikely to be directly affected by today’s announcements. There will, of course, be a knock-on effect to many other industries and I am sure that that will affect every part of Wales.
Siaradaf fel Aelod o’r Cynulliad ac fel un o drigolion Sir Drefaldwyn. Mae’n annhebygol yr effeithir yn uniongyrchol ar yr ardal honno o ganolbarth Cymru gan y cyhoeddiadau a wnaethpwyd heddiw. Bydd llawer o ddiwydiannau eraill yn dioddef sgîl-effeithiau hyn, wrth gwrs, ac yr wyf yn siŵr yr effeithia hynny ar bob rhan o Gymru.
Every member of the Welsh nation cannot but be affected by today’s announcements. Nor can one remain unaffected by the contributions made by Peter Law, John Griffiths, the north Wales Members, and many others today.
Bydd pob aelod o’r genedl Gymreig yn teimlo effaith y cyhoeddiadau a wnaethpwyd heddiw. Ac ni all neb beidio â chael eu heffeithio gan y cyfraniadau a wnaethpwyd gan Peter Law, John Griffiths, Aelodau gogledd Cymru, a llawer o rai eraill heddiw.
In my industry, agriculture, I have seen the devastation to individual families that can be caused by the sudden loss of a job. We see that almost every day. In Wales, in the last year alone, 2,000 to 3,000 jobs have been lost in agriculture.
Yn fy niwydiant i, sef amaethyddiaeth, gwelais yr effaith dorcalonnus ar deuluoedd unigol pan gollir swydd yn sydyn. Fe’i gwelwn bron bob dydd. Yng Nghymru, yn y flwyddyn ddiwethaf yn unig, collwyd 2,000 i 3,000 o swyddi mewn amaethyddiaeth.
When I was chairman of an economic development agency, I saw many factory closures and the devastation that they caused to small communities, particularly where there was just one major factory. The creation of the Development Board for Rural Wales—as you will remember, Llywydd—arose in large part from a huge closure in Newtown, of a factory called BRD, which completely devastated the town. That, in many ways, led the government of the day to establish a mechanism to promote economic development in mid Wales. However, I have not seen a closure on the scale that we are seeing today. I can only imagine the devastation and depression that the people living in the communities affected must feel. I share much of the criticism of Corus that I have heard in this Chamber. Market forces are a reality; we all appreciate that restructuring was needed. I have not been involved in discussions, so I do not know, but this kind of announcement may have been inevitable. However, the insensitivity and uncaring approach that Corus has shown to the public is not acceptable.
Pan oeddwn yn gadeirydd asiantaeth datblygu economaidd, gwelais lawer o ffatrïoedd yn cau a’r chwalfa a achosodd hyn i gymunedau bach, yn arbennig lle’r oedd ond un ffatri fawr. Crëwyd Bwrdd Datblygu Cymru Wledig—fel y cofiwch, Lywydd—i raddau helaeth o ganlyniad i gau ffatri o’r enw BRD yn Y Drenewydd, a chwalodd y dref yn llwyr. Mewn amryw ffyrdd, arweiniodd hynny at lywodraeth y dydd yn sefydlu mecanwaith i hyrwyddo datblygiad economaidd yng nghanolbarth Cymru. Fodd bynnag, ni welais gau gweithfeydd ar y raddfa a welwn heddiw. Ni allaf ond dychmygu’r chwalfa a’r iselder a deimlir gan y bobl sydd yn byw yn y cymunedau yr effeithir arnynt. Rhannaf lawer o’r feirniadaeth ar Corus a glywais yn y Siambr hon. Mae grymoedd y farchnad yn realiti; sylweddolwn oll fod angen ailstrwythuro. Ni fûm yn rhan o unrhyw drafodaethau, felly ni wn, ond mae’n bosibl bod y math hwn o gyhoeddiad wedi bod yn anochel. Fodd bynnag, nid yw’r ymagwedd ansensitif a’r natur ddi-hid a ddangosodd Corus tuag at y cyhoedd yn dderbyniol.
I have always believed that successful business arises from a partnership. We discussed that in the Economic Development Committee meeting yesterday. Through the 1970s and 1980s, there was far too much power in the hands of one of those partners—the trade unions— and I disagreed with that. I have also argued in the past that too much power can rest within Government and that it wants to interfere and take over business. However, I also believe that it is not right that dominating power should be in the hands of business. I am a Conservative and I believe in capitalism. However, the insensitivity and uncaring approach shown by Corus is the worst and unacceptable face of capitalism.
Credais bob amser fod busnesau llwyddiannus yn deillio o bartneriaeth. Trafodasom hynny yng nghyfarfod y Pwyllgor Datblygu Economaidd ddoe. Drwy gydol y 1970au a’r 1980au, yr oedd gormod o bŵer o lawer yn nwylo un o’r partneriaid hynny—yr undebau llafur—ac anghytunais â hynny. Dadleuais hefyd yn y gorffennol y gall gormod o bwer orwedd o fewn y Llywodraeth a’i bod am ymyrryd a chymryd busnes drosodd. Fodd bynnag, credaf hefyd nad yw’n iawn y dylai pŵer gormesol fod yn nwylo busnesau. Yr wyf yn Geidwadwr a chredaf mewn cyfalafiaeth. Fodd bynnag, yr ymagwedd ansensitif a’r natur ddi-hid a ddangosodd Corus yw cyfalafiaeth ar ei waethaf a chyfalafiaeth annerbyniol.
The decisions that were announced today will be on our agenda for many months to come. During those discussions, I will criticise the UK Government’s tax policies. I will continue to voice the concerns that we raised yesterday about our national economic development strategy. I will disagree with some aspects of flexibility, which Phil Williams mentioned. I will not accept that the weakness of the euro was the reason for these announcements today. I will disagree with Dafydd Wigley’s suggestions about re-nationalising the steel industry. However, I will not do that today. Today, everybody should be expressing their concern and sympathy for the people who are losing their jobs, security and peace of mind. The entire Assembly needs to commit itself—and I believe that we have done that—to supporting whatever steps we can take to help the people who are undergoing such a shock to their security and futures today. We must do whatever we can to help restore those communities.
Bydd y penderfyniadau a gyhoeddwyd heddiw ar ein hagenda am fisoedd lawer i ddod. Yn ystod y trafodaethau hynny, byddaf yn beirniadu polisïau treth Llywodraeth y DU. Byddaf yn dal i leisio’r pryderon a godasom ddoe ynglŷn â’n strategaeth datblygu economaidd genedlaethol. Anghytunaf â rhai agweddau ar hyblygrwydd, y soniodd Phil Williams amdanynt. Ni dderbyniaf mai gwendid yr ewro oedd y rheswm dros y cyhoeddiadau hyn heddiw. Anghytunaf ag awgrymiadau Dafydd Wigley ynglŷn ag ailwladoli’r diwydiant dur. Fodd bynnag, ni wnaf hynny heddiw. Heddiw, dylai pawb fod yn mynegi eu pryder a’u cydymdeimlad tuag at y bobl sydd yn colli eu sicrwydd gwaith a’u tawelwch meddwl. Mae angen i’r Cynulliad cyfan ymrwymo—a chredaf inni wneud hynny—i gefnogi pa gamau bynnag y gallwn eu cymryd i helpu’r bobl sydd yn dioddef y fath ysgytwad i’w diogelwch a’u dyfodol heddiw. Rhaid inni wneud beth bynnag sydd yn bosibl i helpu i adfer y cymunedau hynny.
Over a quarter of a century ago, Ted Heath coined the phrase, the ‘unacceptable face of capitalism’. That is what we are witnessing this morning. Wales is home to many companies who take a broad view of their responsibilities to the environment, their communities, and, crucially, to their employees. However, Corus does not fall into that group. It has refused to engage meaningfully with the elected First Minister of Wales. It has communicated with its workforce by rumour. It is myopic, socially irresponsible and stupid from the point of view of its own shareholders. Wales deserves better from Corus’s management. Communities such as Shotton deserve better and the workforce deserves better. John Griffiths rightly pointed out that people will start to ask serious questions about global capitalism’s untrammelled pursuit of profit following this morning’s news. It is a system that impoverishes the third world, puts profit before people and often damages our environment. Ron Davies is right to say that Corus should not be allowed to pursue a ‘scorched earth’ policy. It must restore the land that it has contaminated.
Dros chwarter canrif yn ôl, Ted Heath fathodd yr ymadrodd ‘the unacceptable face of capitalism’. Yr ydym yn dystion i hyn y bore yma. Mae Cymru’n gartref i lawer o gwmnïau sydd yn cymryd golwg eang o’u cyfrifoldebau i’r amgylchedd, eu cymunedau, ac, yn dyngedfennol, i’w gweithwyr. Fodd bynnag, nid yw Corus yn perthyn i’r grŵp hwnnw. Gwrthododd gysylltu’n ystyrlon â Phrif Weinidog etholedig Cymru. Cyfathrebodd â’i weithlu drwy sibrydion. Mae’n fyr ei olwg, yn anghyfrifol yn gymdeithasol ac yn ffôl o safbwynt ei gyfranddalwyr ei hunan. Mae Cymru’n haeddu gwell gan reolwyr Corus. Mae cymunedau fel Shotton yn haeddu gwell ac mae’r gweithlu’n haeddu gwell. Yr oedd John Griffiths yn llygad ei le pan nododd y bydd pobl yn dechrau gofyn cwestiynau dwys am y ras ddirwystr am elw gan gyfalafiaeth fyd-eang yn dilyn newyddion y bore yma. Mae’n system sydd yn achosi tlodi yn y trydydd byd, yn rhoi elw o flaen pobl ac yn aml yn niweidio ein hamgylchedd. Mae Ron Davies yn iawn i ddweud na ddylid caniatáu i Corus fynd ar drywydd polisi ‘tir llosg’. Rhaid iddo adfer y tir a lygrodd.
Anyone who has tried to catch a privatised train or who works for a privatised steel company may be less than convinced about the merits of privatisation. Corus is not run by metallurgists anymore than Railtrack is run by engineers. The accountants have taken over and are mesmerised by next week’s share price. Many of us in the Labour Party still believe that Government has a major part to play in running the commanding heights of the economy.
Efallai y bydd unrhyw un a geisiodd ddal trên a breifateiddiwyd neu sydd yn gweithio i gwmni dur a breifateiddiwyd yn llai parod i dderbyn rhinweddau preifateiddio. Ni chaiff Corus ei redeg gan fetelegwyr yn fwy nag y caiff Railtrack ei redeg gan beirianwyr. Cymerodd y cyfrifyddion yr awenau ac maent wedi’u cyfareddu gan brisiau cyfranddaliadau’r wythnos nesaf. Cred llawer ohonom yn y Blaid Lafur fod gan y Llywodraeth ran fawr i’w chwarae o hyd wrth reoli uchelfannau’r economi.
I left the Chamber for two minutes to look at Ceefax, and saw that the share price of Corus is sharply rising this morning. No doubt, Corus’s management will be toasted in champagne in the city of London tonight. I hope that they choke on it.
Gadewais y Siambr am ddwy funud i edrych ar Ceefax, a gwelais fod pris cyfranddaliadau Corus yn codi’n gyflym y bore yma. Yn ddiamau, cynigir llwncdestun â siampên i reolwyr Corus yn ninas Llundain heno. Gobeithiaf y tagant arno.
I echo the views expressed concerning the plight of the workers in Llanwern, Ebbw Vale, Shotton and Bryngwyn. It is estimated that, with the multiplier effect, about 10,000 jobs will be lost. However, I am also concerned about the effect that this will have throughout Wales. The ripple effect will spread throughout our country, particularly to the deprived Valley communities, where there will be a marked effect. Those communities are already poor—they have 62 per cent of the European average gross domestic product per capita—and are getting poorer. That stresses the need for a strategic plan for areas such as the Valleys. We have discussed nationalisation. I would include the nationalisation of basic industries, such as the steel industry, in that plan.
Adleisiaf y safbwyntiau a fynegwyd am drafferthion y gweithwyr yn Llanwern, Glynebwy, Shotton a Bryngwyn. Amcangyfrifir, gyda’r effaith luosogi, y collir tua 10,000 o swyddi. Fodd bynnag, yr wyf hefyd yn bryderus ynghylch yr effaith a gaiff hyn ledled Cymru. Bydd yr effaith donnog yn ymledu drwy ein gwlad, yn arbennig i’n cymunedau difreintiedig yn y Cymoedd, lle bydd yr effaith yn drwm. Mae’r cymunedau hynny eisoes yn dlawd—mae ganddynt 62 y cant o gyfartaledd Ewrop o ran y cynnyrch mewnwladol crynswth y pen—ac maent yn mynd yn dlotach. Mae hynny’n pwysleisio’r angen am gynllun strategol ar gyfer ardaloedd fel y Cymoedd. Trafodasom wladoli. Byddwn yn cynnwys gwladoli diwydiannau sylfaenol, fel y diwydiant dur, yn y cynllun hwnnw.
We need investment in infrastructure. We have been neglected for too long. We need basic infrastructure. Brian mentioned the need for better railways leading to Ebbw Vale. We also need better roads. We need to tackle the contaminated land. Those things need to be done as a matter of urgency. Training is desperately needed, and we need help with existing industries. The Treasury is reluctant to give operating aid for our industries, which would stimulate our economy. That must be changed and this plan must be properly financed, not from the Barnett formula. The money must come from the £16 billion that is being kept in the war chest. We need that money now to tackle our immediate problems. That must be a priority. In that strategy, the most important thing is a fundamental change in Government policy. We need a policy that does not destroy manufacturing jobs, but creates them. We need a change in Government policy now.
Mae angen buddsoddiad arnom mewn isadeiledd. Fe’n hesgeuluswyd yn rhy hir. Mae angen isadeiledd sylfaenol arnom. Soniodd Brian am yr angen am reilffyrdd gwell yn arwain i Lynebwy. Mae angen ffyrdd gwell arnom hefyd. Mae angen i ni fynd i’r afael â’r tir llygredig. Mae angen gwneud y pethau hynny ar frys. Mae angen hyfforddiant yn enbyd, ac mae angen cymorth gyda diwydiannau presennol. Mae’r Trysorlys yn amharod i roi cymorth gweithredu i’n diwydiannau a fyddai’n ysgogi ein heconomi. Rhaid newid hynny a rhaid ariannu’r cynllun hwn yn iawn, nid o fformwla Barnett. Rhaid i’r arian ddod o’r £16 biliwn a gedwir yn y gronfa ryfel. Mae angen yr arian hwnnw arnom yn awr i fynd i’r afael â’n problemau uniongyrchol. Rhaid i hynny fod yn flaenoriaeth. Yn y strategaeth honno, y peth pwysicaf yw newid sylfaenol ym mholisi’r Llywodraeth. Mae angen polisi arnom nad yw’n dinistrio swyddi gweithgynhyrchu, ond sydd yn eu creu. Mae angen newid ym mholisi’r Llywodraeth yn awr.
Fel pawb arall yn y Siambr, mynegaf fy ngofid ynglŷn â’r hyn sydd wedi digwydd i’r gweithlu a ddioddefodd. Mae geiriau y diweddar Gwyn Alf Williams yn atseinio yn fy meddwl y bore yma. Yn ystod streic y glowyr, rhybuddiai ni fod cymuned yn chwalu bob tro yr oedd pwll glo yn cau. Cydymdeimlwn â’r chwalfa gymunedol ledled Cymru heddiw.
Like everyone else in the Chamber, I express my concern about what has happened to the workers that have suffered. The words of the late Gwyn Alf Williams echo in my mind this morning. During the miners’ strike, he warned us that a community was devastated every time a coal mine was closed. We sympathise with the communities devastated throughout Wales today.
Soniodd Brian Gibbons am y gweithwyr yn codi yn y bore ac yn poeni am y newyddion y byddent yn eu clywed ar y radio. Mae hynny hefyd wedi peri gofid i rai o’m hetholwyr i sydd yn gweithio yn Nhrostre. Yn ffodus, maent wedi goroesi’r cau y tro hwn. Fodd bynnag, hoffwn gael sicrwydd gan y Prif Weinidog y bydd yn gwneud popeth o fewn ei allu i sicrhau bod y swyddi hynny, ac unrhyw fuddsoddiad yn Nhrostre, yn cael eu diogelu. Mae gennym gyfrifoldeb tuag at y gweithlu.
Brian Gibbons mentioned the workers waking up in the morning and worrying about the news that they would hear on the radio. That has also worried some of my constituents who work in Trostre. Fortunately, they have survived the closure this time. However, I would like to have an assurance from the First Minister this afternoon that he will do everything within his power to ensure that those jobs, and any investment in Trostre, are secured. We have a responsibility to the workforce.
Cyfeiriodd William Graham at yr Iseldiroedd. Mae gan weithlu’r wlad honno hawliau llawer cryfach na’r gweithlu ym Mhrydain, ac ni fyddai Corus yn gallu cau’r gwaith yn yr Iseldiroedd. Felly, yr oedd yn rhaid i’r cwmni fuddsoddi a chyflogi mwy o bobl yno. Petai’r hawliau hynny gan y gweithlu ym Mhrydain, a fyddai Corus wedi gallu cymryd penderfyniad tymor byr fel hwn y tro hwn?
William Graham referred to the Netherlands. That country’s workforce has much stronger rights than the British workforce, and Corus would not be able to close the works in the Netherlands. Therefore, the company had to invest and employ more people there. If the British workforce had those rights, would Corus have been able to take a short-term decision such as this one?
Mae cyfrifoldeb ar y Llywodraeth hefyd ac y mae wedi methu ag ymateb i’r sefyllfa sydd wedi codi mewn gweithfeydd cynhyrchu o ganlyniad i gryfder y bunt. Mae’n holl bwysig felly ein bod yn cefnogi’r cymunedau a’r bobl yr effeithwyd arnynt.
The Government must also shoulder some of the responsibility and it has failed to respond to the situation that has arisen in manufacturing works because of the strength of the pound. It is vital therefore that we support the communities and people that have been affected.
Gwyliais The Exchange nos Fawrth ddiwethaf. Yr oedd yn adrodd hanes gweithiwr yn Llanwern nad oedd, bryd hynny, yn gwybod beth fyddai’r penderfyniad. Bu’n gweithio yno am 30 mlynedd. Yr oedd ei wraig newydd golli ei swydd yn Gossard ac yr oedd ef a’i deulu’n wynebu hunllef. Mae’n bwysig ein bod yn cefnogi’r cymunedau a’r gweithwyr sydd wedi colli eu gwaith. Rhaid inni bwyso am gymorth dethol rhanbarthol i’r cymunedau hynny a sicrhau bod y Llywodraeth yn Llundain yn gwrando arnom.
I watched The Exchange last Tuesday night. It told the story of a worker in Llanwern who, at that time, did not know what the decision would be. He had worked there for 30 years. His wife had just lost her job at Gossard and he and his family were facing a nightmare scenario. It is important that we support the communities and workers who have lost their jobs. We must press for regional selective assistance for those communities and ensure that the Government in London listens to us.
Rhodri Morgan Prif Weinidog Cymru siaradwyd yn Gymraeg ac yn Saesneg t. 86
Rhodri Morgan The First Minister spoken in Welsh and English p. 86
Diolchaf i bawb a gymerodd ran yn y ddadl hon.
in Welsh I thank everyone who has participated in this debate.
This debate has helped to manifest, on behalf of everyone in Wales and, particularly, on behalf of steelworkers and steel communities, the enormous strength of feeling that exists in all political parties and in all parts of Wales against the decisions announced by Corus this morning. We have heard contributions from many Members—Peter Law, John Griffiths, Rosemary Butler, Edwina Hart and Alison Halford—who represent steel communities. Many other Members have also contributed, because the steel industry touches many people in Wales, either through family connections or because, like Phil Williams, who spent his childhood in Tredegar, they remember seeing steelworks and the glow from the blast furnaces at night, or, like myself, they remember cycling past tinplate works on the way to school every day. Most Assembly Members probably have some kind of family or geographical connection with steelworks, whether that connection was during our childhood and is now long gone or whether it is a current connection, which therefore poses the kind of danger to which Brian Gibbons referred.
yn Saesneg Mae’r ddadl hon wedi helpu i amlygu, ar ran pawb yng Nghymru, ac, yn arbennig, ar ran y gweithwyr dur a’r cymunedau dur, cryfder aruthrol y teimlad sydd yn bodoli ym mhob plaid wleidyddol ac ym mhob rhan o Gymru yn erbyn y penderfyniadau a gyhoeddwyd gan Corus y bore yma. Clywsom gyfraniadau gan lawer o Aelodau—Peter Law, John Griffiths, Rosemary Butler, Edwina Hart ac Alison Halford—sydd yn cynrychioli’r cymunedau dur. Cyfrannodd llawer o Aelodau eraill hefyd, gan fod y diwydiant dur yn cyffwrdd â llawer o bobl yng Nghymru, naill ai drwy gysylltiadau teuluol neu am eu bod, fel Phil Williams, a dreuliodd ei blentyndod yn Nhredegar, yn cofio gweld y gweithfeydd dur a’r golau coch o’r ffwrneisi chwyth fin nos, neu, fel myfi, cofiant seiclo heibio’r gweithfeydd tunplat ar y ffordd i’r ysgol bob dydd. Yn ôl pob tebyg mae gan y rhan fwyaf o Aelodau’r Cynulliad ryw fath o gysylltiad teuluol neu ddaearyddol â’r gweithfeydd dur, pa un a oedd y cysylltiad hwnnw yn ystod eu plentyndod ac wedi hen fynd erbyn hyn neu pa un a yw’n gysylltiad cyfredol, sydd felly’n achosi’r math o berygl y cyfeiriodd Brian Gibbons ato.
I will rehearse the figures again, as there may be confusion when the contractor job losses and the multiplier effect are calculated and added to the final figure. The figures quoted by Alun Cairns and Geraint Davies may be too high. Excluding contractors, the figures that we received from Corus at 9 a.m. this morning were that 1,440 jobs would be lost at Llanwern, just under 800 at Ebbw Vale, 320 at Shotton, 130 at Bryngwyn, 30 at the Orb works in Newport and 100 jobs in management at Port Talbot. That is a total of about 2,830 jobs. Job losses among contractors can then be added to that figure, the largest number of which will be at Llanwern because of the heavy end. It would be safe to add about 600 jobs to the total job losses. Corus could not supply accurate figures regarding contractors this morning, but will do so at a later date. By adding those 600 contractor jobs—as those workers are virtually steelworkers in all but name—a total of about 3,400 or 3,500 redundancies were announced this morning. That figure may be higher due to the number of contractors working at other plants, which is much harder to calculate. On the multiplier effect, even a 1:1 multiplier would probably result in quite a high figure. It is possible that as many as 8,000 jobs will be lost by virtue of today’s announcement, although perhaps a figure of 7,000 to 8,000 would be safer in Wales, including a 1:1 multiplier. However, there are many arguments about what the true multiplier is these days. We are certainly talking of 3,500, possibly 4,000, job losses in the various steel communities affected.
yn Saesneg Ailadroddaf y ffigurau eto, gan y bydd dryswch o bosibl pan gyfrifir colli swyddi contractwyr a’r effaith luosogi a’u hychwanegu i’r ffigur terfynol. Efallai bod y ffigurau a ddyfynnwyd gan Alun Cairns a Geraint Davies yn rhy uchel. Ac eithrio contractwyr, y ffigurau a dderbyniasom gan Corus am 9 a.m. y bore yma oedd bod 1,440 o swyddi’n cael eu colli yn Llanwern, ychydig yn llai na 800 yng Nglynebwy, 320 yn Shotton, 130 ym Mryngwyn, 30 yng ngwaith Orb yng Nghasnewydd a 100 o swyddi rheolwyr ym Mhort Talbot. Mae hynny’n gwneud cyfanswm o tua 2,830 o swyddi. Gellir ychwanegu’r swyddi a gollir ymhlith contractwyr wedyn at y ffigur hwnnw, a bydd y rhif mwyaf yn Llanwern oherwydd y pen trwm. Byddai’n ddiogel ychwanegu tua 600 o swyddi i gyfanswm y colledion. Ni allai Corus ddarparu ffigurau cywir o safbwynt contractwyr y bore yma, ond gwna hynny yn ddiweddarach. Drwy ychwanegu swyddi 600 o gontractwyr—gan mai gweithwyr dur yw’r gweithwyr hynny mewn popeth ond enw—cyhoeddwyd cyfanswm o tua 3,400 neu 3,500 o ddiswyddiadau y bore yma. Gall y ffigur hwnnw fod yn uwch o ganlyniad i nifer y contractwyr sydd yn gweithio mewn gweithfeydd eraill, sydd yn anoddach o lawer i’w cyfrifo. O ran yr effaith luosogi, byddai hyd yn oed lluosogwr 1:1 fwy na thebyg yn golygu ffigur cymharol uchel. Mae’n bosibl y collir cymaint â 8,000 o swyddi gan gyhoeddiad heddiw, er efallai y byddai ffigur o 7,000 i 8,000 yn fwy diogel yng Nghymru, gan gynnwys lluosogwr 1:1. Fodd bynnag, mae llawer o ddadleuon ynghylch y gwir luosogwr y dyddiau hyn. Yn sicr yr ydym yn sôn am 3,500, o bosibl 4,000, o swyddi’n cael eu colli yn y cymunedau dur amrywiol.
Some Members raised the issue of the consultation directives. Phil said—I think his words were slightly strong and he may not have intended them as such—that they could have prevented the closure. I do not think that Phil meant that, although he used those words. I think that he meant that a much stronger consultation provision would have allowed some time for people and Government. Perhaps I should remind the Assembly of how the law currently stands in the UK. We conform with all European Union legislation on this matter, including legislation on consultation about collective redundancies and on the provision of European works councils. We have recently strengthened the Collective Redundancy Directive. These are matters of UK Government law and, sometimes, European law. They are not matters for the Assembly. However, as they were raised many times during today’s debate, I should inform Members that the UK Government is currently considering how well these measures work in practice. The Secretary of State for Trade and Industry, Stephen Byers, announced as recently as 18 January that the UK Government will review its arrangements on collective redundancies, in conjunction with the Confederation of British Industry and the Trades Union Congress. You must always try to walk the tightrope between those who demand more regulation to try to prevent closures or in the hope that you can gain more time to dissuade companies from closing—as heard by many Labour and Plaid Cymru Members today—and those who are against regulations and want to get rid of them, as Conservative Members demonstrated today. Some way or another, you must walk that tightrope and ensure that you do not put off inward investment or existing investors by excessive regulation, but that you give the workforce good protection where that is usable. However, it is not the case that people can easily be made redundant in the UK and not on the continent. Unfortunately, the Vauxhall workers in Luton and Rsselsheim discovered that, when they were made redundant in equal numbers in a major redundancy, which affected Britain and Germany just before Christmas.
yn Saesneg Cododd rhai Aelodau fater cyfarwyddebau ymgynghori. Dywedodd Phil—credaf fod ei eiriau braidd yn gryf ac efallai na fwriadodd iddynt fod felly—y gallent fod wedi osgoi cau’r gweithfeydd. Ni chredaf fod Phil wedi meddwl hynny, er iddo ddefnyddio’r geiriau hynny. Credaf ei fod yn golygu y byddai darpariaeth ymgynghori gryfach o lawer wedi caniatáu rhywfaint o amser i bobl a’r Llywodraeth. Efallai y dylwn atgoffa’r Cynulliad o’r gyfraith gyfredol yn y DU. Cydymffurfiwn â phob deddfwriaeth yn yr Undeb Ewropeaidd ar y mater hwn, gan gynnwys deddfwriaeth ar ymgynghori ar ddiswyddiadau torfol a darpariaeth cynghorau gwaith Ewrop. Yn ddiweddar atgyfnerthwyd y Gyfarwyddeb Diswyddo Torfol. Mae’r rhain yn faterion cyfraith Llywodraeth y DU ac, weithiau, cyfraith Ewrop. Nid ydynt yn faterion i’r Cynulliad. Fodd bynnag, gan iddynt gael eu codi sawl gwaith yn ystod dadl heddiw, dylwn hysbysu’r Aelodau bod Llywodraeth y DU ar hyn o bryd yn ystyried pa mor dda y gweithia’r mesurau hyn yn ymarferol. Cyhoeddodd yr Ysgrifennydd Gwladol dros Fasnach a Diwydiant, Stephen Byers, mor ddiweddar â 18 Ionawr y bydd Llywodraeth y DU yn adolygu ei threfniadau ar ddiswyddiadau torfol, ar y cyd â Chydffederasiwn Diwydiant Prydain a Chyngres yr Undebau Llafur. Rhaid ichi bob amser geisio cerdded y ffin denau rhwng y rheini sydd yn mynnu cael rhagor o reoliadau i geisio osgoi cau gweithfeydd neu yn y gobaith y llwyddwch i ennill rhagor o amser i ddarbwyllo cwmnïau rhag cau—fel y clywyd gan lawer o’r Aelodau Llafur a Phlaid Cymru heddiw—a’r rheini sydd yn erbyn rheoliadau ac am gael gwared arnynt, fel y dangosodd yr Aelodau Ceidwadol heddiw. Rywsut neu’i gilydd, rhaid ichi gerdded y ffin denau honno a sicrhau nad ydych yn digalonni mewnfuddsoddi neu fuddsoddwyr presennol gyda gormod o reoliadau, ond eich bod yn diogelu eich gweithlu yn dda lle defnyddir hynny. Fodd bynnag, nid yw’n golygu y gellir gwneud pobl yn ddi-waith yn hawdd yn y DU ac nid ar y cyfandir. Yn anffodus, darganfu gweithwyr Vauxhall yn Luton a Rsselsheim hynny, pan gollodd yr un niferoedd eu swyddi gan ddiswyddiadau anferth, a effeithiodd ar Brydain a’r Almaen ychydig cyn y Nadolig.
I take on board the point that Dafydd Wigley and others raised about re-nationalisation, but it is not a matter for this Assembly. We do not have the kind of resources that are involved in re-nationalisation. We have also mentioned halfway houses and the semi-mutual solutions that are topical, because of the water industry and the welcome announcement made by the Director General of the Office of Water Services yesterday about Glas Cymru. It is probably a will-o’- the-wisp to say that that is on. However, the workers’ or union offer to take over the steelworks was on, and it was annoying and angered us even more when it was rejected out of hand, despite its big industrial backing. It was difficult, because it was not an offer to take over half the steelworks but the whole steelworks. That was probably not practical, as Corus only wants to close half the steelworks. The money is available in different ways to take over Llanwern, but as only half the steelworks is being closed, that may not be an option. However, finding the £35 million to reline the blast furnace is, unfortunately, the kernel of this morning’s announcement. Basically, Corus has run out of money to reline the giant blast furnace at Llanwern.
yn Saesneg Ystyriaf y pwynt a gododd Dafydd Wigley ac eraill ynghylch ailwladoli, ond nid yw’n fater i’r Cynulliad hwn. Nid oes gennym y math o adnoddau sydd yn ymwneud ag ailwladoli. Soniasom hefyd am y mannau canol a’r atebion lled gyffredin sydd yn gyfamserol, oherwydd y diwydiant dŵr a’r cyhoeddiad sydd i’w groesawu a wnaethpwyd gan Gyfarwyddwr Cyffredinol Swyddfa’r Gwasanaethau Dŵr ddoe ynglŷn â Glas Cymru. Mae’n debyg mai peth anwadal fyddai dweud y bydd hynny’n digwydd. Serch hynny, yr oedd cynnig y gweithwyr neu’r undeb i gymryd drosodd yn y gweithfeydd dur wedi dechrau, a chawsom ein gwylltio a’nn cynddeiriogi’n waeth pan gafodd ei wrthod yn llwyr, er gwaethaf y gefnogaeth ddiwydiannol fawr iddo. Yr oedd yn anodd, oherwydd nid oedd yn gynnig i gymryd drosodd hanner y gweithfeydd dur ond y gweithfeydd dur yn eu cyfanrwydd. Nid oedd hynny’n ymarferol fwy na thebyg, am fod Corus ond am gau hanner y gweithfeydd dur. Mae’r arian ar gael mewn ffyrdd gwahanol i gymryd Llanwern drosodd, ond gan mai dim ond hanner y gwaith sydd yn cael ei gau, efallai na fydd hynny’n opsiwn. Fodd bynnag, canfod y £35 miliwn i ail-leinio’r ffwrnais chwyth, yn anffodus, yw cnewyllyn cyhoeddiad y bore yma. Yn sylfaenol, nid oes gan Corus arian i ail-leinio’r ffwrnais chwyth anferthol yn Llanwern.
Let me clarify the timing of these closures. Ebbw Vale will be the last to close. It will not close until mid 2002. Shotton will probably close in June this year. The other changes will take effect from 1 April by and large. In the case of Llanwern, they will switch over when the giant blast furnace is switched off as it reaches the point where it must be relined for safety reasons. The small blast furnace will then be switched back on again. Number 2 furnace will take the place of number 3 and that will be the beginning of the run-down in the Llanwern iron and steel operations, which will be finished probably by the end of this year. That will account for most of those job losses.
yn Saesneg Gadewch imi egluro amseriad cau’r gweithfeydd hyn. Glynebwy fydd yr olaf i gau. Ni fydd yn cau tan ganol 2002. Bydd Shotton yn cau ym Mehefin eleni. Daw’r newidiadau eraill i rym o 1 Ebrill ar y cyfan. Yn achos Llanwern, byddant yn trosglwyddo pan ddiffoddir y ffwrnais chwyth anferth wrth iddi gyrraedd y pwynt pan fydd yn rhaid ei hail-leinio am resymau diogelwch. Yna caiff y ffwrnais chwyth fach ei throi ymlaen eto. Bydd ffwrnais rhif 2 yn cymryd lle rhif 3 a dyna fydd dechrau’r dirywiad yng ngweithrediadau dur a haearn Llanwern, a ddaw i ben yn ôl pob tebyg erbyn diwedd y flwyddyn hon. Bydd hynny’n rhoi cyfrif am y rhan fwyaf o’r swyddi a gollir.
I want to deal with the issue of north Wales. Peter Rogers made a canard or allegation—which was effectively rebutted by Alison Halford, Karen Sinclair and Alun Pugh—that in some way we have given less attention to Shotton than to Llanwern and the threat to other plants in Wales, such as Ebbw Vale. The difficulty has been the lack of information. Up until 5 December, everything was okay, apart from the redundancies that were announced last July, when it was announced that the blast furnace at Llanwern would be relined and that the sum of £35 million had been put away to do that. Then, on 5 December, Corus reversed its position and said that that was no longer the strategy, John Bryant and Mr van Duyne had gone, Sir Brian Moffat had taken over and that there would be more restructuring. Immediately, the press was briefed that the whole of Llanwern would close and that there would be massive job losses in south-east Wales. Nobody mentioned Shotton and only a few newspapers mentioned Ebbw Vale. Llanwern was, if you like, fingered in the financial press and the whole of Llanwern steelworks were to be closed. That was from 5 December onwards. What did this restructuring mean? Naturally, attention was then given to the works that had been fingered by the press, which was being briefed by banks, public relations companies or somebody who worked for Corus. Someone told the financial press that Llanwern would close and that is what the restructuring was all about. Nobody mentioned Shotton in that context.
yn Saesneg Hoffwn ymdrin â mater gogledd Cymru. Gwnaeth Peter Rogers stori big neu honiad—a wrthbrofwyd yn effeithiol gan Alison Halford, Karen Sinclair ac Alun Pugh—ein bod rywsut wedi rhoi llai o sylw i Shotton nag i Lanwern a’r bygythiad i weithfeydd eraill yng Nghymru, fel Glynebwy. Yr anhawster fu’r diffyg gwybodaeth. Hyd at 5 Rhagfyr, yr oedd popeth yn iawn, ar wahân i’r diswyddiadau a gyhoeddwyd fis Gorffennaf diwethaf, pan gyhoeddwyd y byddai’r ffwrnais chwyth yn Llanwern yn cael ei hail-leinio, a bod y swm o £35 miliwn wedi’i roi o’r neilltu i wneud hynny. Yna, ar 5 Rhagfyr, gwrthdrôdd Corus ei sefyllfa a dywedodd nad hynny oedd y strategaeth bellach; yr oedd John Bryand a Mr van Duyne wedi mynd, yr oedd Syr Brian Moffat wedi cymryd yr awenau a byddai mwy o ailstrwythuro. Ar unwaith, briffiwyd y wasg y byddai Llanwern yn ei gyfanrwydd yn cau ac y byddai swyddi’n cael eu colli ar raddfa enfawr yn ne-ddwyrain Cymru. Ni soniodd neb am Shotton a dim ond ychydig o bapurau newydd a soniodd am Lynebwy. Os hoffech, pwyntiwyd bys at Lanwern yn y wasg ariannol ac yr oedd gwaith dur Llanwern yn ei gyfanrwydd i gau. Yr oedd hynny o 5 Rhagfyr ymlaen. Beth a olygai’r ailstrwythuro hyn? Yn naturiol, rhoddwyd sylw wedyn i’r gwaith y pwyntiwyd bys ato yn y wasg, a friffiwyd gan y banciau, cwmnïau cysylltiadau cyhoeddus neu rywun a weithiai i Corus. Dywedodd rhywun wrth y wasg ariannol fod Llanwern i gau a dyna oedd ystyr yr ailstrwythuro i gyd. Ni soniodd neb am Shotton yn y cyd-destun hwnnw.
I was not making any political points. I was reporting back the comments that people in Shotton had made. They praised what the MPs had done in north Wales and they gave us a tremendous verbal bashing. I was not making a political point. I was simply asking for the Assembly to be aware that Shotton wants to be shown equal understanding.
Nid oeddwn yn gwneud unrhyw bwyntiau gwleidyddol. Yr oeddwn yn adrodd yn ôl y sylwadau a wnaeth pobl yn Shotton. Canmolasant yr hyn a wnaethai ASau yng ngogledd Cymru a rhoddasant grasfa eiriol anhygoel inni. Nid oeddwn yn gwneud pwynt gwleidyddol. Dim ond gofyn yr oeddwn i’r Cynulliad fod yn ymwybodol bod Shotton am gael dealltwriaeth gyfartal.
Rhodri Morgan The First Minister spoken in English p. 90
Rhodri Morgan Prif Weinidog Cymru siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 90
I am grateful because that message had been fed back to me also. I hope that the presence of Mike German and Tom Middlehurst, who are meeting the Shotton steel committee this morning—after the much happier ceremony of switching on the new production line at the Toyota engine plant—will help to put fears at rest about there being any bias. If there is one industry that unites the whole of Wales—east and west, north and south—it is the strip mills of the steel industry, which is the casualty of the Corus merger and of the irresponsible decision to waste away the shareholders money. That £700 million handed back to shareholders 18 months ago at the time of the merger could have stood them in good stead when they needed to ride out a rough patch in the industry relating to currency or market factors.
Yr wyf yn ddiolchgar oherwydd cafodd y neges honno ei throsglwyddo i mi hefyd. Gobeithiaf y bydd presenoldeb Mike German a Tom Middlehurst, sydd yn cyfarfod â phwyllgor dur Shotton y bore yma—ar ôl y seremoni hapusach o lawer o gychwyn llinell gynhyrchu newydd yn ffatri beiriannau Toyota—yn helpu i leddfu’r pryderon am unrhyw ragfarn. Os oes un diwydiant yn uno Cymru gyfan—y dwyrain a’r gorllewin, y gogledd a’r de—melinau stribed y diwydiant dur yw hwnnw, sef un o golledion uniad Corus a’r penderfyniad anghyfrifol i wastraffu arian y cyfranddalwyr. Gallai’r £700 miliwn hwnnw a roddwyd yn ôl i gyfranddalwyr 18 mis yn ôl adeg yr uniad fod wedi bod o les iddynt pan oedd angen iddynt ddod drwy gyfnod anodd yn y diwydiant yn ymwneud â ffactorau ariannol neu’r farchnad.
We will have a further debate on this issue next Tuesday to see what will happen if our efforts to dissuade them pay off. Policies change quickly in this industry. We saw the company stand on its head and completely reverse its decision on 5 December. We hope that it will be willing to reconsider and return to its policy prior to 5 December. We hope that, if the Iron and Steel Trades Confederation is willing, it will consider a possible takeover of Ebbw Vale rather than of Llanwern given that that is not an option as Llanwern is not closing down completely. We do not know what will happen there. If all those efforts fail, we will return to this matter on Tuesday, I hope, and consider how to turn today’s anger into the next step to take.
Cawn drafodaeth bellach ar y mater hwn ddydd Mawrth nesaf i weld beth fydd yn digwydd os bydd ein hymdrechion i’w darbwyllo yn llwyddiannus. Mae polisïau yn newid yn gyflym yn y diwydiant hwn. Gwelsom y cwmni’n sefyll ar ei ben gan wyrdroi ei benderfyniad yn gyfan gwbl ar 5 Rhagfyr. Gobeithiwn y bydd yn barod i ailystyried a mynd yn ôl i’w bolisi cyn 5 Rhagfyr. Gobeithiwn, os bydd Cydffederasiwn y Diwydiannau Haearn a Dur yn fodlon, yr ystyria feddiannu Glynebwy yn hytrach na Llanwern o ystyried nad yw hynny’n opsiwn gan nad yw Llanwern yn cau’n gyfan gwbl. Ni wyddom beth fydd yn digwydd yno. Os metha’r holl ymdrechion hynny, byddwn yn dychwelyd at y mater hwn ddydd Mawrth, gobeithio, ac yn ystyried sut i droi dicter heddiw yn gam nesaf i’w gymryd.
Cofiaf gyhoeddi’r Papur Gwyn ar ddatganoli, ‘Llais dros Gymru’. Mae’n gyfrifoldeb ar y Cynulliad hwn yn awr i fod yn llais dros Gymru a hynny mewn perthynas â Llywodraeth y Deyrnas Unedig a’i pholisïau. Mae gan lawer ohonom ddarlun gweddol glir o’r math o newidiadau polisi sydd eu hangen i fynd i’r afael â’r problemau enbyd sydd yn taro economi Cymru, ac nid yn y diwydiant dur yn unig. Mae polisi rhanbarthol a throsglwyddo adnoddau ariannol yn ganolog i hynny. Gobeithiaf y bydd y Cynulliad, o dan eich arweiniad, yn anfon y neges hon yn glir i San Steffan ynghyd â phwysleisio ein bod am weld gweithredu effeithiol yn y cyfeiriad hwn.
I remember the publication of the White Paper on devolution, ‘A Voice for Wales’. It is now this Assembly’s responsibility to act as a mouthpiece for Wales in relation to the UK Government and its policies. Many of us have quite a clear picture of the kind of policy changes needed to tackle the major problems hitting the Welsh economy, and not only the steel industry. Regional policy and transferring financial resources is central to that. I hope that the Assembly, under your leadership, will convey that message clearly to Westminster, and emphasises that we wish to see effective action in that direction.
Rhodri Morgan Prif Weinidog Cymru siaradwyd yn Gymraeg t. 91
Rhodri Morgan The First Minister spoken in Welsh p. 91
Cawsom y ffigurau am 9.05 a.m. heddiw ac yr ydym yn ceisio canfod beth yw’r gwir ffigurau ar ôl cyfrif contractwyr ac effaith y lluosogwr. Mae’n anodd inni fesur beth fydd y gost ychwanegol ar hyn o bryd ac, felly, ni allwn roi’r wybodaeth honno i’r Trysorlys. Gobeithiaf y gallwn ddychwelyd at y pwnc hwn ddydd Mawrth nesaf a dweud mwy ynglŷn â sut y byddwn yn ymateb i’r argyfwng sydd wedi ein taro heddiw.
We received the figures at 9.05 a.m. today and we are trying to work out what the true figures are after taking contractors and the multiplier effect into account. It is difficult for us to calculate the additional cost at the moment and, therefore, we are unable to give that information to the Treasury. I hope that we can return to this issue next Tuesday and tell you more about how we will respond to the crisis that has befallen us today.
Cynnig Trefniadol
Procedural Motion
Andrew Davies The Minister for Assembly Business spoken in English p. 91
Andrew Davies Y Trefnydd siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 91
I propose that
Cynigiaf fod
Cynnig trefniadol Andrew Davies t. 91
Procedural motion Andrew Davies p. 91
DerbyniwydAdopted O blaidFor 43 YmatalAbstain 0 Yn erbynAgainst 0
Derbyniwyd y cynnig.
Motion adopted.
Sut y pleidleisiodd yr AelodauHow Members voted
O blaidFor (43)
- Lorraine Barrett
- Mick Bates
- Peter Black
- Nick Bourne
- Rosemary Butler
- Alun Cairns
- Christine Chapman
- Cynog Dafis
- Jane Davidson
- Andrew Davies
- David Davies
- Geraint Davies
- Glyn Davies
- Janet Davies
- Ron Davies
- Sue Essex
- Delyth Evans
- Val Feld
- Brian Gibbons
- William Graham
- John Griffiths
- Christine Gwyther
- Alison Halford
- Brian Hancock
- Jane Hutt
- Pauline Jarman
- Carwyn Jones
- Ieuan Wyn Jones
- Huw Lewis
- David Lloyd
- David Melding
- Rhodri Morgan
- Alun Pugh
- Jenny Randerson
- Peter Rogers
- Janet Ryder
- Karen Sinclair
- Gwenda Thomas
- Owen John Thomas
- Rhodri Glyn Thomas
- Dafydd Wigley
- Kirsty Williams
- Phil Williams
Cwestiwn Brys
Urgent Question
Cau Dairy Crest
Dairy Crest Closure
Does the Minister for Rural Affairs have any plans to meet with Dairy Crest, which yesterday announced the closure of the Marshfield processing site in my constituency, with a total job loss of 275? Will he discuss what measures can be put in place to help minimise the impact on workers and the local community? (EAQ9595)
A yw’r Gweinidog dros Faterion Gwledig yn bwriadu cyfarfod â Dairy Crest, a gyhoeddodd ddoe y byddai safle prosesu Marshfield yn fy etholaeth yn cau, ac y byddai cyfanswm o 275 o swyddi yn cael eu colli? A fydd yn trafod pa fesurau y gellir eu rhoi ar waith i helpu i leihau’r effaith ar weithwyr a’r gymuned leol? (EAQ595)
Carwyn Jones The Minister for Rural Affairs spoken in English p. 92
Carwyn Jones Y Gweinidog dros Faterion Gwledig siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 92
Yesterday’s news about Marshfield and Carmarthen was unwelcome. I am meeting with Dairy Crest this afternoon and I will discuss the announcement and ask about its plans for the future.
Ni chroesawyd newyddion ddoe am Marshfield a Chaerfyrddin. Yr wyf yn cyfarfod â Dairy Crest y prynhawn yma a byddaf yn trafod y cyhoeddiad ac yn holi ynglŷn â’u cynlluniau ar gyfer y dyfodol.
I make no apology for tabling this urgent question today. I wanted to ensure that the plight of the workers at the Marshfield plant would not be totally eclipsed by the shocking Corus announcements. I tabled a question to Mike German as the Minister for Economic Development. Once you have met with Dairy Crest will you return and tell me what actions you and the Minister for Economic Development will take to ensure that every assistance will be used to create a package to support the workers of the Marshfield plant? It is of major concern to me that not only have we had the Corus announcement this morning, but also 200,000 job losses at Alcan before Christmas, and now Dairy Crest. These are all in my constituency and I am concerned that you have been asked to answer this question instead of the Deputy First Minister and Minister for Economic Development.
Nid ymddiheuraf am gyflwyno’r cwestiwn brys hwn heddiw. Yr oeddwn am sicrhau na fyddai sefyllfa’r gweithwyr yn ffatri Marshfield yn cael ei gysgodi’n llwyr gan gyhoeddiadau syfrdanol Corus. Cyflwynais gwestiwn i Mike German fel y Gweinidog dros Ddatblygu Economaidd. Unwaith y byddwch wedi cyfarfod â Dairy Crest a ddychwelwch ataf a rhoi gwybod i mi pa gamau y byddwch chi a’r Gweinidog dros Ddatblygu Economaidd yn eu cymryd i sicrhau y defnyddir pob cymorth i greu pecyn i gynnal gweithwyr ffatri Marshfield? Mae’n peri pryder mawr imi nid yn unig inni glywed cyhoeddiad Corus y bore yma, ond hefyd i 200,000 o swyddi gael eu colli yn Alcan cyn y Nadolig, ac yn awr Dairy Crest. Maent oll o fewn fy etholaeth ac yr wyf yn pryderu y gofynnwyd i chi ateb y cwestiwn hwn yn hytrach na’r Dirprwy Brif Weinidog a’r Gweinidog dros Ddatblygu Economaidd.
As this is concerned with Dairy Crest and as I am meeting them this afternoon, perhaps it is best that I answer. I intend to provide the National Assembly with a full statement next week after my meeting with Dairy Crest.
Gan fod y mater yn ymwneud â Dairy Crest a chan fy mod yn cyfarfod â hwy y prynhawn yma, efallai ei bod yn well mai fi sydd yn ateb. Bwriadaf ddarparu datganiad llawn i’r Cynulliad Cenedlaethol yr wythnos nesaf yn dilyn fy nghyfarfod gyda Dairy Crest.
Gan y bydd Carwyn Jones yn gwneud datganiad yr wythnos nesaf, byddaf yn cyfyngu ar y cwestiynau y bwriadaswn eu gofyn. Fodd bynnag, pan wnaiff ei ddatganiad, gobeithiaf y bydd yn talu sylw i hufenfeydd yn y de-orllewin, ac yr wyf yn cynnwys Hufenfa Hwlffordd yn arbennig, sef prif capacity prosesu Dairy Crest/Unigate yn y cyffiniau. Mae pryderon ynghylch yr hufenfa honno, sydd o ansawdd uchel ac sydd yn cynhyrchu deunydd da. Gobeithiaf y bydd hynny’n rhan bwysig o ddatganiad yr wythnos nesaf.
As Carwyn Jones will be making a statement next week, I will limit the number of questions that I had intended to ask. I hope that when he makes his statement, he will pay attention to creameries in the south-west, and I include the Haverfordwest Creamery in particular, which is Dairy Crest/Unigate’s main processing capacity in the area. There are concerns about this creamery, which is of a high calibre and produces quality produce. I hope that that will be an important part of next week’s statement.
Trafodaf ddyfodol Hwlffordd gyda Dairy Crest y prynhawn yma, ac fe fydd canlyniadau’r drafodaeth yn y datganiad.
I will discuss the future of the Haverfordwest creamery with Dairy Crest this afternoon and the results of that discussion will be in the statement.
Thank you, Carwyn, for responding to the question. I am pleased that you are responding given that you are meeting Dairy Crest this afternoon. As you know, West Carmarthenshire has a proud history of producing and manufacturing milk and milk products. The packing plant at Carmarthen was a real part of that. Some people will say that the loss of 270 of not-particularly-well-paid jobs, is not much of a disaster. I assure you that, for the people of Carmarthen, it is a catastrophe.
Diolch, Carwyn, am ymateb i’r cwestiwn. Yr wyf yn falch eich bod yn ymateb o gofio eich bod yn cyfarfod â Dairy Crest y prynhawn yma. Fel y gwyddoch, mae gan Orllewin Sir Gaerfyrddin hanes da o gynhyrchu a gweithgynhyrchu llaeth a chynnyrch llaeth. Yr oedd y ffatri pacio yng Nghaerfyrddin yn rhan o hynny. Mae rhai o’r farn nad yw colli 270 o swyddi nad ydynt yn talu’n arbennig o dda yn llawer o drychineb. Gallaf eich sicrhau ei bod yn drychineb i bobl Caerfyrddin.
Like Rosemary, I was concerned yesterday that the plight of these workers would be lost in the Corus hubbub. There are parallels to be drawn between these two announcements. Whether steel or commodity-food products, we are talking about big business. The parallels lie in short-termism and the indifference. Those are characteristics across the piece as far as big business is concerned.
Fel Rosemary, yr oeddwn yn pryderu ddoe y byddai sefyllfa’r gweithwyr hyn yn cael ei anwybyddu yng nghanol helynt Corus. Gellir llunio cymariaethau rhwng y ddau gyhoeddiad. Boed yn ddur neu’n gynnyrch nwyddau-bwyd, yr ydym yn sôn am fusnes mawr. Eu nodweddion tebyg yw eu natur tymor byr a’r difaterwch. Mae’r rheini yn nodweddion cyffredinol ymhlith busnesau mawr.
I am glad that you are meeting Dairy Crest this afternoon. I will be seeing them after you; I have secured a meeting with its chief executive, John Houliston. I will lay down a challenge for him. I have met him once before, and I know that he is a hard man who is difficult to bargain with. I wish you well in your meeting with him.
Yr wyf yn falch eich bod yn cyfarfod â Dairy Crest y prynhawn yma. Byddaf yn eu gweld wedi hynny; yr wyf wedi trefnu cyfarfod gyda’i brif weithredwr, John Houliston. Byddaf yn gosod her iddo. Cyfarfûm ag ef unwaith o’r blaen, a gwn ei fod yn ddyn caled sydd yn anodd bargeinio ag ef. Dymuniadau da ichi yn eich cyfarfod gydag ef.
When I see John Houliston, I will ask him to come clean on Whitland Creamery. It was established and has done good work, but was mothballed 80 years later in 1994. At the moment, it stands like a rotten plant in the middle of Whitland. It dominates the town. Earlier on during the Corus debate, some talked of mothballing fairly positively. The mothballing in Whitland Creamery has been the worst thing that could have happened to the town. It would have been cleaner had it been closed properly and sold at the time.
Pan welaf John Houliston, gofynnaf iddo egluro beth yw’r sefyllfa yn Hufenfa Hendy-gwyn ar Daf. Cafodd ei sefydlu a gwnaethpwyd waith da yno, ond rhoddwyd y gorau i gynhyrchu yno 80 mlynedd yn ddiweddarach yn 1994. Ar hyn o bryd, saif y ffatri’n segur yng nghanol Hendy-gwyn ar Daf. Mae’n bwrw cysgod dros y dref. Yn gynharach, yn ystod y ddadl ar Corus, soniodd rhai am y broses o gau ffatrïoedd dros dro fel proses gymharol gadarnhaol. Rhoi’r gorau i gynhyrchu yn Hufenfa Hendy-gwyn ar Daf oedd y peth gwaethaf a allai fod wedi digwydd i’r dref. Byddai wedi bod yn well pe bai wedi’i chau yn llwyr a’i gwerthu bryd hynny.
I will say to John Houliston—and I hope that you will too, Carwyn—that he should either put or shut up. He should either reopen Whitland Creamery or allow it to be sold so that Whitland can move on and that other people can benefit from that site.
Dywedaf wrth John Houliston—a gobeithiaf y gwnewch chithau hefyd, Carwyn—y dylai naill ai weithredu neu roi’r gorau i sôn am wneud. Dylai naill ai ailagor Hufenfa Hendy-gwyn ar Daf neu ganiatáu iddi gael ei gwerthu fel y gall Hendy-gwyn ar Daf symud ymlaen ac y gall pobl eraill elwa ar y safle hwnnw.
You have raised the matter of Whitland many times, and you are right to raise it again, and I know that you will do so this afternoon. I issued a similar challenge yesterday, in the form of a press notice to Dairy Crest to ask it what its plans were for Whitland. You are right that that factory dominates the Taf Valley. Sadly, it is not a monument to economic activity but to mothballing. It is wrong that such a plant should sit in a town such as Whitland and not produce anything. You can rest assured that I will raise the future of Whitland with Mr Houliston.
Yr ydych wedi codi mater Hendy-gwyn ar Daf sawl gwaith, ac yr ydych yn llygad eich lle yn ei godi eto, a gwn y gwnewch hynny y prynhawn yma. Cyflwynais her debyg ddoe, ar ffurf datganiad i’r wasg i Dairy Crest yn gofyn beth oedd ei gynlluniau ar gyfer Hendy-gwyn ar Daf. Mae’n wir bod y ffatri honno yn bwrw cysgod dros Ddyffryn Taf. Yn anffodus, nid cofeb i weithgarwch economaidd ydyw ond i’r broses o gau ffatrïoedd dros dro. Nid yw’n iawn bod ffatri o’r fath yn segur mewn tref fel Hendy-gwyn ar Daf heb unrhyw gynhyrchiant. Gallaf eich sicrhau y byddaf yn codi dyfodol Hendy-gwyn ar Daf gyda Mr Houliston.
Dioddefodd fy etholwyr o ganlyniad i ddau ddatganiad yn ddiweddar sef, cau Dairy Crest yng Nghaerfyddin a chau ffatri Valeo yng Ngorseinon. Er nad yw’r naill na’r llall o fewn ffiniau fy etholaeth, gweithia nifer helaeth o’m etholwyr yn y naill ganolfan neu’r llall. Ategaf yr hyn a ddywedodd Christine ynglŷn â Hendy-gwyn ar Daf ac ymddygiad cwbl warthus Dairy Crest. Yr ydym wedi atgoffa Corus o’i ymddygiad cwbl annerbyniol ac o’i gyfrifoldeb i gymunedau yn y meysydd haearn drwy Gymru. Gobeithiaf y bydd Carwyn yn atgoffa Dairy Crest o’i gyfrifoldeb i gynhyrchwyr llaeth yn Sir Gaerfyrddin ac yn ne-orllewin Cymru ac i’r bobl sydd yn ddibynnol ar y diwydiant hwnnw. Gobeithiaf y bydd hefyd yn atgoffa Dairy Crest o’i gyfraniad i economi’r de-orllewin. Mae’n holl bwysig—fel y gŵyr Carwyn yn burion—er mwyn strategaeth y dyfodol, fod canolfan brosesu gref yn y fan honno.
My constituents have suffered recently as a result of two announcements, namely the closure of Dairy Crest in Carmarthen and the closure of Valeo in Gorseinon. Although neither lies within the boundaries of my constituency, a great number of my constituents work in one or the other of these centres. I endorse what Christine said about Whitland and Dairy Crest’s despicable behaviour. We have reminded Corus of its unacceptable behaviour and its responsibility to the steel communities. I hope that Carwyn will remind Dairy Crest that it has a responsibility to its dairy producers in Carmarthenshire and in south-west Wales and to the people who are dependent on that industry. I hope that Carwyn will also remind Dairy Crest of its contribution to the south-west Wales economy. It is vital—as Carwyn knows only too well—for future strategy, that we have a strong processing centre in that area.
Mae nifer o ganolfannau prosesu cryf yng Nghymru. Mae dwy yn fy etholaeth innau sydd yn hynod o effeithiol. Mae angen canolfan brosesu fawr i wasanaethu’r diwydiant yn ne-orllewin Cymru ac i sicrhau ei ffyniant yn y dyfodol. Gobeithiaf y bydd Carwyn yn gwneud y pwynt hwnnw’n gryf i Dairy Crest y prynhawn yma.
There are a number of strong processing centres in Wales. There are two in my constituency that are hugely effective. We need a large processing centre to service the industry in south-west Wales and to secure its prosperity in the future. I hope Carwyn will make that point strongly to Dairy Crest this afternoon.
Gwnaf hynny, Rhodri. Mae gan Hendy-gwyn ar Daf ddau ddewis. Y dewis cyntaf yw buddsoddi ac ailagor. Yr ail ddewis yw gwerthu’r safle a’i roi i gwmni arall a all wneud rhywbeth da a chadarnhaol gydag ef. Dyna’r hyn a ofynnaf iddynt y prynhawn yma.
I will do that, Rhodri. Whitland has two options. The first is to invest and re-open. The second is to sell the site and pass it on to another company that can make good and positive use of it. That is what I will ask them this afternoon.
This devastating and sad day demonstrates that the rural-urban divide that is talked about so often is false. Today, two industries in this time of adversity share a bond and a brotherhood, I hope, of resilience to pull through it. I hope that resilience is shared by this administration and that itwill put in place actions that will ensure that those communities can be rebuilt and that the rural and urban economies will not suffer. However, against that background, we must realise that the United Kingdom has lost over 51,000 jobs in agriculture in the last year. In Wales, that has meant up to 10,000 jobs. The Government in London’s Hunting Bill is bringing forward proposals that will cut a further 1,800 jobs from the economy in Wales. I would like to know what information and intelligence you are using to ensure that these closures do not happen and that incentives—when we have structural funding—are put in place to keep the infrastructure and to ensure that all communities have a healthy and vibrant future?
Mae’r diwrnod torcalonnus a thrist hwn yn arwydd bod y rhaniad gwledig-trefol hwn y sonnir amdano mor aml yn ffug. Heddiw, mae dau ddiwydiant yn y cyfnod anodd hwn yn rhannu cyswllt a brawdoliaeth, gobeithiaf, o wydnwch i’w oresgyn. Gobeithiaf fod y weinyddiaeth hon yn rhannu’r gwydnwch hwnnw ac y bydd yn rhoi camau ar waith a fydd yn sicrhau y gellir ailadeiladu’r cymunedau hynny ac na fydd yr economïau gwledig a threfol yn dioddef. Fodd bynnag, yn erbyn y cefndir hwnnw, rhaid inni sylweddoli bod y Deyrnas Unedig wedi colli dros 51,000 o swyddi mewn amaethyddiaeth dros y flwyddyn ddiwethaf. Yng Nghymru, golygodd hynny hyd at 10,000 o swyddi. Yn y Mesur Hela cyflwyna’r Llywodraeth yn Llundain gynigion a fydd yn golygu colli 1,800 o swyddi eraill o’r economi yng Nghymru. Hoffwn wybod pa wybodaeth yr ydych yn ei defnyddio i sicrhau na chollir y swyddi hyn ac y caiff cymhellion eu rhoi ar waith—pan fydd gennym arian strwythurol—i gadw’r seilwaith ac i sicrhau bod gan bob cymuned ddyfodol iach a ffyniannus?
It is sad that the decision taken by Dairy Crest is in complete contrast to the interest shown by others in terms of developing new processing capacity and existing processing capacity in west and north Wales. Negotiations are ongoing with a number of companies with the view to expanding their processing capacity in those areas. I had discussions on Monday with Axis and Scottish Milk and they both took a positive view of the need and desirability of expansion in the west and north. Dairy Crest is fighting against the flow of what is happening. With all the tools that we have at our disposal—Objective 1 is just one of those tools; we also have the agri-food strategy—I am confident that the processing capacity that we have in Wales will be expanded over time. Today’s announcements—I hope—will prove to be unusual.
Mae’n drist bod y penderfyniad a wnaethpwyd gan Dairy Crest yn gwbl groes i’r diddordeb a fynegwyd gan eraill yn nhermau datblygu gallu prosesu newydd a’r gallu prosesu sydd yn bodoli eisoes yng ngorllewin a gogledd Cymru. Mae negodiadau yn mynd rhagddynt gyda nifer o gwmnïau gyda’r bwriad o ehangu eu gallu prosesu yn yr ardaloedd hynny. Cynhaliais drafodaethau ddydd Llun gydag Axis a Scottish Milk ac yr oedd gan y ddau safbwynt cadarnhaol o ran yr angen i ehangu yn y gorllewin a’r gogledd a pha mor ddymunol fyddai hynny. Mae Dairy Crest yn brwydro yn erbyn llif yr hyn sydd yn digwydd. Gyda’r holl arfau sydd ar gael inni—dim ond un o’r arfau hynny yw Amcan 1; mae’r strategaeth amaeth-fwyd yn un arall—yr wyf yn hyderus y caiff y gallu prosesu sydd gennym yng Nghymru ei ehangu dros amser. Gobeithiaf y bydd cyhoeddiadau heddiw yn profi’n gyhoeddiadau anarferol.
I am heartened that you are going to visit Dairy Crest this afternoon and I am also pleased that you have heard strong words from other Members representing their own interests. This is a serious blow in two ways. First, to the jobs in the cheese factories in Carmarthen and Cardiff. That is a huge amount of jobs to lose. Second, it will cause great problems in the dairy industry in Wales. It is terrible to see this added value going across the borders into England. I hope that you will take today’s messages—on behalf of those workers in Carmarthen and the dairy farmers of Wales—to Dairy Crest. We must have a strategy, which you are rightly and bravely taking forward, of adding value in Wales, to bring jobs into Wales, to support produce produced in Wales and to take this industry forward. I hope that you will take the message to Dairy Crest that we should have consultation and put in place other means of supporting those workers and the dairy industry in Wales.
Mae’n galonogol eich bod yn ymweld â Dairy Crest y prynhawn yma ac yr wyf hefyd yn falch eich bod wedi clywed geiriau cryf gan Aelodau eraill sydd yn cynrychioli eu buddiannau hwy eu hunain. Mae hon yn ergyd ddifrifol mewn dwy ffordd. Yn gyntaf, i’r swyddi yn y ffatrïoedd caws yng Nghaerfyrddin a Chaerdydd. Mae’n swm sylweddol o swyddi i’w colli. Yn ail, bydd yn achosi problemau mawr yn y diwydiant cynnyrch llaeth yng Nghymru. Peth ofnadwy yw gwylio’r gwerth ychwanegol hwn yn croesi’r ffin i Loegr. Gobeithiaf y byddwch yn trosglwyddo negeseuon heddiw—ar ran y gweithwyr hynny yng Nghaerfyrddin a ffermwyr llaeth Cymru—i Dairy Crest. Rhaid inni sicrhau strategaeth, yr ydych wrthi’n gyfiawn ac yn ddewr yn ei datblygu, sydd yn ychwanegu gwerth yng Nghymru, i ddod â swyddi i Gymru, i gefnogi cynnyrch Cymru ac i ddatblygu’r diwydiant hwn. Gobeithiaf yr ewch â’r neges i Dairy Crest y dylem ymgynghori a gweithredu dulliau eraill o gynnal y gweithwyr hynny a’r diwydiant llaeth yng Nghymru.
You can rest assured, Peter, that I will not only point out to Dairy Crest the interest in developing processing capacity in Wales from other companies, but I will also ask it whether it wishes to be a part of that, and I hope that I get an answer.
Gallaf eich sicrhau, Peter, y byddaf nid yn unig yn hysbysu Dairy Crest am y diddordeb sydd gan gwmnïau eraill o ran datblygu gallu prosesu yng Nghymru, ond y byddaf hefyd yn gofyn a yw am fod yn rhan o hynny, gan obeithio y câf ateb.
Datganiad ar ‘Wella Iechyd yng Nghymru’
Statement on ‘Improving Health in Wales’
Jane Hutt The Minister for Health and Social Services spoken in English p. 97
Jane Hutt Y Gweinidog dros Iechyd a Gwasanaethau Cymdeithasol siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 97
I am grateful for this opportunity to make a statement to the Assembly, before tomorrow’s formal launch of the administration’s plan for the NHS in Wales. I am also grateful to Members for staying in the Chamber when their attention is rightly focused on the workforce and communities affected by Corus’s and Dairy Crest’s decisions.
Yr wyf yn ddiolchgar am y cyfle hwn i wneud datganiad i’r Cynulliad, cyn i’r weinyddiaeth lansio ei chynllun ar gyfer yr NHS yng Nghymru yn ffurfiol yfory. Yr wyf hefyd yn ddiolchgar i’r Aelodau am aros yn y Siambr pan fo’u sylw’n gywir wedi’i ganolbwyntio ar y gweithlu a’r cymunedau yr effeithir arnynt gan benderfyniadau Corus a Dairy Crest.
The plan entitled ‘Improving Health in Wales’, will provide a sense of renewal and purpose for our national health service in Wales over the next ten years. It will deal with all the major challenges that we face in improving health and wellbeing in Wales and will set out the essential building blocks through which the future can be shaped to the benefit of all our citizens. I look forward to discussing its proposals with the Health and Social Services Committee next week and in Plenary on 13 February.
Bydd y cynllun ‘Gwella Iechyd yng Nghymru’ yn rhoi ymdeimlad o adnewyddu a phwrpas i’n gwasanaeth iechyd gwladol yng Nghymru dros y deng mlynedd nesaf. Bydd yn ymdrin â’r holl brif sialensau a wynebwn wrth wella iechyd a lles yng Nghymru a bydd yn gosod blociau adeiladu hanfodol y gellir eu defnyddio i lunio’r dyfodol er budd pob un o’n dinasyddion. Edrychaf ymlaen at drafod ei gynigion gyda’r Pwyllgor Iechyd a Gwasanaethau Cymdeithasol yr wythnos nesaf ac yn y Cyfarfod Llawn ar 13 Chwefror.
Today, I will focus on one aspect of the plan alone: the structural changes that will be introduced as a means of achieving the ends, which are the real focus of all our efforts. Given the initial headlines that these changes are likely to command, it seemed right that the Assembly should hear of them in Plenary before the document is released to the Health and Social Services Committee and all Members via the intranet. As the Minister for Assembly Business said on Tuesday, the full plan will be placed on the Intranet later today with the accompanying papers for Committee.
Heddiw, canolbwyntiaf ar un agwedd benodol ar y cynllun: y newidiadau strwythurol a gyflwynir fel dull o gyflawni’r nod, sef gwir ffocws ein holl ymdrechion. O gofio’r penawdau cychwynnol y mae’r newidiadau hyn yn debygol o’u denu, ymddangosai’n briodol y dylai’r Cynulliad eu clywed mewn Cyfarfod Llawn cyn i’r ddogfen gael ei rhyddhau i’r Pwyllgor Iechyd a Gwasanaethau Cymdeithasol a’r holl Aelodau ar y fewnrwyd. Fel y nododd y Trefnydd ddydd Mawrth, gosodir y cynllun llawn ar y Fewnrwyd yn ddiweddarach heddiw gyda’r papurau ategol i’r Pwyllgor.
Three key characteristics underlie the approach that the plan adopts which, as Health Minister, I have identified as necessary to the future of health services in Wales. We need to design a service that will be simpler for patients to use and understand, accountable for its actions and the services that it delivers, and that will have a stronger democratic voice in how it is governed.
Mae tair nodwedd allweddol yn sylfaen i’r ymagwedd a fabwysiedir gan y cynllun yr wyf innau, fel y Gweinidog Iechyd, wedi’u nodi fel rhai sydd yn angenrheidiol i ddyfodol gwasanaethau iechyd yng Nghymru. Mae angen inni gynllunio gwasanaeth a fydd yn symlach i gleifion ei ddefnyddio a’i ddeall, yn atebol am ei weithredoedd a’r gwasanaethau a gyflwyna, ac a fydd yn meddu ar lais democrataidd cryfach o ran y ffordd y caiff ei reoli.
To give life to these characteristics, and for the plan to succeed, we must strengthen our capacity at two different levels. At the local level, we will radically strengthen and develop the role of local health groups. Through consultations, a set of developmental milestones will be constructed and will show how, over the next few years LHGs will take on new responsibilities for commissioning and delivering health care in their localities. In a people-centred, and participatory health service, the power to obtain the services and support needed must be rooted locally. New responsibilities will lead to the need for new forms of accountability and improved management arrangements. For example, membership of LHGs will be extended to include representation of local authority members. That is part of what I mean by strengthening democracy. However, the plan goes further than that in many important ways.
Er mwyn gwireddu’r nodweddion hyn ac er mwyn i’r cynllun lwyddo, rhaid inni atgyfnerthu ein gallu ar ddwy wahanol lefel. Ar y lefel leol, byddwn yn atgyfnerthu ac yn datblygu rôl grwpiau iechyd lleol yn radical. Drwy ymgynghori, datblygir cyfres o gerrig milltir datblygiadol a fydd yn dangos sut y bydd GILl, dros y blynyddoedd nesaf, yn derbyn cyfrifoldebau newydd dros gomisiynu a chyflwyno gofal iechyd yn euhardaloedd lleol. Mewn gwasanaeth iechyd cyfrannol sydd yn canolbwyntio ar bobl, rhaid gwreiddio’r pŵer i gael y gwasanaethau a’r cymorth sydd eu hangen yn lleol. Bydd cyfrifoldebau newydd yn arwain at yr angen am ffurfiau newydd ar atebolrwydd a gwell trefniadau rheoli. Er enghraifft, estynnir aelodaeth y GILl i gynnwys cynrychiolwyr aelodau awdurdodau lleol. Mae hynny’n rhan o’r hyn a olygaf wrth ddefnyddio’r term atgyfnerthu democratiaeth. Fodd bynnag, aiff y cynllun ymhellach na hynny mewn sawl ffordd bwysig.
At the same time, at the national level, and in order to achieve a Welsh NHS that tackles inequality and provides the best possible service, we need to ensure that the Assembly provides a new sense of leadership, direction and oversight. The plan will involve a new assertion of the Assembly’s direct democratic control of its health responsibilities. A strengthening of the local and national capacity means that we can look for additional ways in which the system can be simplified and made more accountable.
Ar yr un pryd, ar y lefel genedlaethol, ac er mwyn cyflawni NHS yng Nghymru sydd yn mynd i’r afael ag anghydraddoldeb ac yn darparu’r gwasanaeth gorau posibl, mae angen inni sicrhau y darpara’r Cynulliad ymdeimlad newydd o arweinyddiaeth, cyfeiriad a goruchwyliaeth. Bydd y cynllun yn cynnwys gweithredu o’r newydd ar reolaeth ddemocrataidd uniongyrchol y Cynulliad o’i gyfrifoldebau iechyd. Golyga atgyfnerthu’r gallu lleol a chenedlaethol y gallwn edrych am ffyrdd gwahanol i symleiddio’r system a’i gwneud yn fwy atebol.
After full consideration, I have decided to announce the abolition of health authorities in Wales. By stripping out a layer of administration, the service’s structure will be simplified and more understandable. A country as closely integrated as Wales with a devolved administration that is growing in authority and experience is well placed to be innovative. By removing a tier of bureaucracy, the NHS in Wales will be more transparent, accountable and responsive to its users than ever before.
Ar ôl ystyriaeth lawn, penderfynais gyhoeddi y bydd awdurdodau iechyd yn cael eu diddymu yng Nghymru. Drwy gael gwared ar haen o weinyddiaeth, bydd strwythur y gwasanaeth yn cael ei symleiddio a bydd yn haws i’w ddeall. Mae gwlad mor integredig â Chymru gyda gweinyddiaeth ddatganoledig sydd yn tyfu o ran awdurdod a phrofiad mewn sefyllfa dda i arloesi. Drwy gael gwared ar haen o fiwrocratiaeth, bydd yr NHS yng Nghymru yn fwy eglur, atebol ac ymatebol i’w ddefnyddwyr nag erioed o’r blaen.
This is a radical new vision in keeping with the needs of Wales. I make it clear, from the outset, that the plan is about renewing the NHS and organising it in the best possible way, and not about reducing staff numbers. It emphasises using the talents and skills of staff in all parts of the NHS. The structures will change but staff currently working in health authorities will be needed to develop LHGs, in public health and in the Assembly’s strategic role.
Mae hon yn weledigaeth newydd radical sydd yn cyfateb i anghenion Cymru. Egluraf, o’r cychwyn cyntaf, mai’r hyn a wna’r cynnllun yw adnewyddu’r NHS a’i drefnu yn y ffordd orau bosibl, ac nid lleihau nifer y staff. Pwysleisia y dylid defnyddio talentau a sgiliau staff ym mhob rhan o’r NHS. Bydd y strwythurau yn newid ond bydd angen y staff sydd yn gweithio ar hyn o bryd mewn awdurdodau iechyd i ddatblygu GILl, ym maes iechyd cyhoeddus ac o fewn rôl strategol y Cynulliad.
In the new arrangements, fresh, clear and strongly enforced lines of accountability will flow from the centre direct to NHS trusts and to LHGs. Most importantly, the line of accountability, which should link this Assembly to the patient, will be shortened and brought into much sharper focus. Trusts, in particular, must become accountable to their local communities working in partnership with the National Assembly and local stakeholder interests.
Yn y trefniadau newydd, bydd llinellau atebolrwydd newydd, clir a orfodir yn llym yn llifo o’r canol yn uniongyrchol i ymddiriedolaethau NHS a’r GILl. Yn bwysicaf oll, caiff y llinell atebolrwydd, a ddylai gysylltu’r Cynulliad hwn â’r claf, ei chwtogi a’i chanolbwyntio’n fwy penodol. Rhaid i ymddiriedolaethau, yn benodol, ddod yn atebol i’w cymunedau lleol gan weithio mewn partneriaeth â’r Cynulliad Cenedlaethol a buddiannau budd-ddeiliaid lleol.
In the new arrangements, the Assembly’s statutory responsibilities will be supported by a newly created and inclusive health and wellbeing partnership council chaired by the Minister for Health and Social Services. That will make tangible the Assembly’s responsibilities for improving health services and engaging the full range of stakeholders. The Assembly will consult on proposals for the future management of the remaining health authority duties, including a regional capacity in line with evidence on service provision and use by patients. The public health function will be overhauled and developed to meet the health and wellbeing challenges of the twenty-first century.
Yn y trefniadau newydd, ategir cyfrifoldebau statudol y Cynulliad gan gyngor partneriaeth iechyd a lles cynhwysol, newydd o dan gadeiryddiaeth y Gweinidog dros Iechyd a Gwasanaethau Cymdeithasol. Bydd hynny’n amlygu cyfrifoldebau’r Cynulliad dros wella gwasanaethau iechyd a chynnwys yr ystod llawn o fudd-ddeiliaid. Bydd y Cynulliad yn ymgynghori ar gynigion ar gyfer rheoli’r dyletswyddau awdurdod iechyd sydd yn weddill yn y dyfodol, gan gynnwys gallu rhanbarthol yn unol â thystiolaeth ar ddarparu gwasanaethau a’r defnydd gan gleifion. Caiff y swyddogaeth iechyd cyhoeddus ei hadolygu a’i datblygu i gwrdd â sialensau iechyd a lles yr unfed ganrif ar hugain.
The new structure will enhance the democratic voice in Wales, by making the elected National Assembly directly responsible for our health services. Locally, the role of local government will be enhanced. New partnership boards will oversee the development and delivery of those community services in which both health and social services play a joint role. The retention of community health councils in Wales will complement these developments and local government will continue to play a vital role within them.
Bydd y strwythur newydd yn cyfoethogi’r llais democrataidd yng Nghymru, drwy sicrhau bod y Cynulliad Cenedlaethol etholedig yn uniongyrchol gyfrifol am ein gwasanaethau iechyd. Yn lleol, cyfoethogir rôl llywodraeth leol. Bydd byrddau partneriaeth newydd yn goruchwylio’r gwaith o ddatblygu a chyflwyno’r gwasanaethau cymunedol hynny lle bydd iechyd a gwasanaethau cymdeithasol yn cyd-chwarae eu rhan. Bydd cadw cynghorau iechyd cymunedol yng Nghymru yn ategu’r datblygiadau hyn a bydd llywodraeth leol yn parhau i chwarae rhan hanfodol yn y cynghorau hynny.
I emphasise that this is the administration’s plan. Partnership Government means that we are now able to make the necessary decisions through which services in Wales can be shaped and improved. The decision to abolish health authorities is a firm one. I was determined not to subject the service, or its staff, to a prolonged period of discussion and debate about future structural arrangements. That is why the crucial decision about abolition has already been made. In the future, in implementing that decision, I will want to have the maximum participation and discussion with all stakeholder interests, in putting into practice the changes that I have announced. Issues affecting staff will be a top priority in the implementation process which will now follow. Consultation and negotiation with staff will be developed on a national basis. Everyone will be treated fairly and consistently and everyone will work on behalf of NHS Wales.
Pwysleisiaf mai cynllun y weinyddiaeth yw’r cynllun hwn. Golyga Llywodraeth Bartneriaeth y gallwn yn awr wneud y penderfyniadau angenrheidiol i lunio a gwella gwasanaethau yng Nghymru. Mae’r penderfyniad i ddiddymu awdurdodau iechyd yn un cadarn. Yr oeddwn yn benderfynol o beidio â throi’r gwasanaeth, na’i staff, yn destun cyfnod estynedig o drafod a dadlau am drefniadau strwythurol y dyfodol. Dyna pam y gwnaethpwyd y penderfyniad hanfodol i ddiddymu eisoes. Yn y dyfodol, wrth weithredu’r penderfyniad hwnnw, byddaf am sicrhau’r cyfranogiad mwyaf a thrafod gyda holl fuddiannau budd-ddeiliaid, wrth weithredu’r newidiadau a gyhoeddais. Bydd materion sydd yn effeithio ar staff yn brif flaenoriaeth yn y broses weithredu a fydd yn dilyn yn awr. Datblygir y broses o ymgynghori a negodi gyda staff yn genedlaethol. Caiff pawb eu trin yn deg ac yn gyson a bydd pawb yn gweithio ar ran NHS Cymru.
The assertion of the Assembly’s direct oversight, the development of LHGs, new accountabilities for trusts and the closer integration of local government are all important elements in the renewed NHS for Wales. Equally important will be an inclusive and consultative programme of implementation which is sensitive to the needs of all staff, maintains services for patients and provides robust new management mechanisms.
Mae gweithredu goruchwyliaeth uniongyrchol y Cynulliad, datblygu GILl, atebolrwydd newydd i ymddiriedolaethau ac integreiddio llywodraeth leol yn agosach oll yn elfennau pwysig yn yr NHS newydd i Gymru. Bydd rhaglen gynhwysol ac ymgynghorol o weithredu, sydd yn sensitif i anghenion pob aelod o staff, yn cynnal gwasanaethau i gleifion ac yn darparu mecanweithiau rheoli newydd cadarn yr un mor bwysig.
In all of this, the views of staff and the part which staff have to play in the future will be of high importance. This statement has focused on the changes which will be brought about in the structures of the NHS in Wales. The contribution which staff make endures as the bedrock of the service, however it might be configured. The practical strengthening of LHGs, and the new strategic arrangements will both depend on the skills and commitment which individuals now employed in health authorities will bring to their new roles and responsibilities. I look forward to working with them over the coming months and beyond.
Yn hyn i gyd, bydd safbwyntiau staff a’r rhan sydd ganddynt i’w chwarae yn y dyfodol yn bwysig iawn. Canolbwyntiodd y datganiad hwn ar y newidiadau a gyflwynir yn strwythurau’r NHS yng Nghymru. Cyfraniad y staff fydd conglfaen y gwasanaeth, waeth sut y caiff ei gyflunio. Bydd atgyfnerthu GILl yn ymarferol, a’r trefniadau strategol newydd yn dibynnu ar y sgiliau a’r ymroddiad y daw yr unigolion a gyflogir mewn awdurdodau iechyd ar hyn o bryd i’w rolau a’u cyfrifoldebau newydd. Edrychaf ymlaen at gydweithio â hwy dros y misoedd sydd i ddod a thu hwnt i hynny.
To summarise, the changes that I have announced this morning will mean a health service in Wales in which bureaucracy is reduced, accountability is clearer and the system is made easier to understand. The new arrangements will strengthen strategic decision-making at national levels while moving service planning, delivery and accountability closer to communities and patients. I commend them to the Assembly as an example of what a reforming and radical administration can achieve for the people of Wales.
I grynhoi, bydd y newidiadau a gyhoeddais y bore yma yn golygu gwasanaeth iechyd yng Nghymru gyda llai o fiwrocratiaeth, atebolrwydd cliriach a bydd y system yn haws i’w deall. Bydd y trefniadau newydd yn atgyfnerthu’r broses o wneud penderfyniadau strategol ar lefelau cenedlaethol tra’n symud y broses o gynllunio a chyflwyno gwasanaethau a’u hatebolrwydd yn agosach at gymunedau a chleifion. Fe’u cymeradwyaf i’r Cynulliad fel enghraifft o’r hyn y gall gweinyddiaeth radical sydd yn diwygio ei gyflawni i bobl Cymru.
Diolchaf i Jane am ei datganiad. Datganaf fuddiant fel meddyg teulu. Wedi hir aros, mae cynllun ar gyfer y gwasanaeth iechyd yng Nghymru yn cael ei roi ar waith, rhyw chwe mis ar ôl cyflwyno cynllun yn Lloegr. Mae hwn yn ddechreuad.
in Welsh I thank Jane for her statement. I declare an interest as a general practitioner. At long last, a scheme for the health service in Wales is being implemented, about six months after a scheme was introduced in England. That is a start.
It is a sombre day. We have been hearing about the devastating effect of all these job losses which, in turn, will have a devastating effect on health and health inequalities. The title of the Minister’s statement is ‘Improving Health in Wales’, and on such a sombre day that is a severe challenge for us all.
yn Saesneg Mae’n ddiwrnod prudd. Clywsom am effaith ddinistriol yr holl swyddi sydd yn cael eu colli a fydd, yn ei thro, yn cael effaith ddinistriol ar iechyd ac anghydraddoldebau iechyd. Teitl datganiad y Gweinidog yw ‘Gwella Iechyd yng Nghymru’, ac ar ddiwrnod mor brudd mae hynny’n her fawr i bob un ohonom.
This is a start, but my patients will want to know what difference it will make to them. Plaid Cymru has long argued for the streamlining of the three levels of health administration down to one. That has been a policy for a long time. We have long had that policy. There was no need for a partnership Government, you could have had a different partnership.
yn Saesneg Mae hwn yn ddechreuad, ond bydd fy nghleifion am wybod pa wahaniaeth a wnaiff iddynt hwy. Mae Plaid Cymru wedi hir ddadlau o blaid symleiddio’r tair lefel o weinyddiaeth iechyd i un. Bu hynny’n bolisi ers peth amser. Mae’r polisi hwnnw wedi’i sefydlu ers tro. Nid oedd angen Llywodraeth bartneriaeth, gallech fod wedi sefydlu partneriaeth wahanol.
However, some questions need answering. Does this reform mean that we will have all-Wales strategic decisions led by the National Assembly? Does it mean that there will be uniform provision of services—such as cancer, heart, infertility and ambulance services—throughout Wales? Does it mean the end of the postcode lottery? Does it mean one arm’s-length body? Following Phil Williams’s earlier comments, could the one arm’s-length body be sited outside Cardiff? Many of us have an emotional attachment to Tredegar as far as the NHS is concerned.
yn Saesneg Fodd bynnag, mae angen ateb rhai cwestiynau. A olyga’r diwygiadau hyn y bydd gennym benderfyniadau strategol Cymru-gyfan o dan arweiniad y Cynulliad Cenedlaethol? A olyga y bydd y gwasanaethau a ddarperir yn unffurf—megis gwasanaethau canser, y galon, anffrwythlondeb ac ambiwlans—ledled Cymru? A ddaw terfyn i’r loteri codau post? A olyga un corff hyd braich? Yn dilyn sylwadau cynharach Phil Williams, a ellid lleoli’r corff hyd braich y tu allan i Gaerdydd? Mae gan lawer ohonom gysylltiad emosiynol â Thredegar mewn perthynas â’r NHS.
Plaid Cymru argues that this reform does not go far enough, because we would also abolish trusts. While trusts remain, the machinery of the internal market in health remains. Would the Minister agree that with the health economy model before us in the ‘Access and Excellence’ report, it is incongruous not only to have health authorities but also to have trusts cutting across those clinical networks? Do we need trusts with strengthened local health groups? Can we not strengthen local health groups by incorporating the secondary care sector? What initial resources are to be allocated to primary care to enable us to move forward with this model? Today we are only concentrating on the structures. Questions will arise as this plan unfolds about the capacity to deliver, the numbers of nurses, new equipment and technology, the need to develop medical services and ambulatory care in an intermediate care setting. Those questions will doubtless arise over the next few days as we see the rest of this strategy. It is true to say that improving access to treatment is vital to our patients. They tell me time and again that we need to develop imaginative roles for our community hospitals and that the community must be the focus for our health service. The centralisation that we see in ‘Access and Excellence’ threatens people in places such as Tenby and Brecon.
yn Saesneg Dadleua Plaid Cymru nad yw’r diwygiad hwn yn mynd yn ddigon pell, gan y byddem yn diddymu ymddiriedolaethau hefyd. Tra bydd ymddiriedolaethau yn parhau, erys peirianwaith y farchnad fewnol mewn iechyd. A fyddai’r Gweinidog yn cytuno gyda’r model economi iechyd a gyflwynir yn yr adroddiad ‘Mynediad a Rhagoriaeth’, ei bod yn amhriodol nid yn unig fod awdurdodau iechyd yn torri ar draws y rhwydweithiau clinigol hynny, ond bod ymddiriedolaethau yn gwneud hynny hefyd? A oes angen ymddiriedolaethau arnom gyda grwpiau iechyd lleol wedi’u hatgyfnerthu? Oni allwn atgyfnerthu grwpiau iechyd lleol drwy ymgorffori’r sector gofal eilaidd? Pa adnoddau cychwynnol a ddyrennir i ofal sylfaenol i’n galluogi i ddatblygu’r model hwn? Heddiw canolbwyntiwn ar strwythurau yn unig. Daw cwestiynau i’r amlwg wrth i’r cynllun hwn ddatblygu o ran y gallu i gyflwyno, nifer y nyrsys, offer a thechnoleg newydd, yr angen i ddatblygu gwasanaethau meddygol a gofal symudol mewn lleoliad gofal canolradd. Yn ddiamau daw’r cwestiynau hyn i’r amlwg dros y diwrnodau nesaf wrth inni weld gweddill y strategaeth hon. Mae’n wir dweud bod gwella mynediad i driniaeth yn hanfodol i’n cleifion. Dywedir wrthyf dro ar ôl tro bod angen inni ddatblygu rolau llawn dychymyg i’n hysbytai cymunedol ac y dylai’r gymuned fod yn ffocws i’n gwasanaeth iechyd. Mae’r canoli a welwn yn ‘Mynediad a Rhagoriaeth’ yn fygythiad i bobl mewn lleoedd fel Dinbych-y-Pysgod ac Aberhonddu.
Plaid Cymru has long campaigned for streamlined bureaucracy in the NHS in Wales. We are proud of the fact that the party’s policy is now the country’s policy. We have always said that three tiers of administration was unsustainable in a situation where more money patently needs to get through to the clinical treatment of patients on the ground. Up to now, as I have said before, you have appeared Minister to merely administer health in Wales, weakly following a London line. I have been known to call for firm leadership, vision and the need to take difficult strategic decisions on health in Wales. This is a start. Huge challenges remain.
yn Saesneg Bu Plaid Cymru yn ymgyrchu’n hir i gael biwrocratiaeth symlach yn yr NHS yng Nghymru. Ymfalchïwn yn y ffaith fod polisi’r blaid bellach yn bolisi i’r wlad. Dywedem bob amser na ellid cynnal tair haen o weinyddiaeth mewn sefyllfa lle y bo’n amlwg bod angen i fwy o arian gael ei fuddsoddi wrth ddarparu triniaeth glinigol i gleifion ar lawr gwlad. Hyd yn hyn, fel y dywedais o’r blaen, ymddangosoch Weinidog fel petaech ond yn gweinyddu iechyd yng Nghymru, gan ddilyn safbwynt Llundain yn llwfr. Fe’m clywyd o’r blaen yn galw am arweinyddiaeth gadarn, gweledigaeth a’r angen i wneud penderfyniadau strategol anodd ar iechyd yng Nghymru. Mae hwn yn ddechreuad. Erys sialensau enfawr.
I think that that is a strong endorsement for my policy. It is about the health service needing leadership. The health service also wants to ensure that patients and communities are involved, participating and getting the care that they deserve. It is about improving health in Wales, which affects every man, woman and child in Wales. It is a national, public health service. They are our resources, and we are the stewards of those resources. They will rise from £2.6 billion to £3.6 billion over the next three years.
Credaf fod hynny’n ardystiad cryf i’m polisi. Mae’n ymwneud ag angen y gwasanaeth iechyd am arweinyddiaeth. Mae’r gwasanaeth iechyd hefyd am sicrhau y cynhwysir cleifion a chymunedau, gan gymryd rhan a chael y gofal y maent yn ei haeddu. Mae’n ymwneud â gwella iechyd yng Nghymru, sydd yn effeithio ar bob dyn, merch a phlentyn yng Nghymru. Mae’n wasanaeth iechyd cyhoeddus, cenedlaethol. Ein hadnoddau ni ydynt, a ni yw stiwardiaid yr adnoddau hynny. Byddant yn codi o £2.6 biliwn i £3.6 biliwn dros y tair blynedd nesaf.
You went into a great deal of detail, Dai. It will all be debated in the Health and Social Services Committee and in Plenary. The plan will be published this afternoon. It is very important that we break down bureaucracy, and ensure that we make all-Wales decisions that are democratically accountable. It is important that patients, doctors, nurses and physiotherapists can see where the money is going. Essentially, it is a simpler way of getting our public money to the patient, and ensuring that improving health and primary care becomes a reality. Much of that will emerge as you read the plan and as we discuss it in the coming weeks.
Buoch yn fanwl iawn, Dai. Caiff hyn oll ei ddadlau yn y Pwyllgor Iechyd a Gwasanaethau Cymdeithasol ac mewn Cyfarfod Llawn. Cyhoeddir y cynllun y prynhawn yma. Mae’n bwysig iawn inni chwalu biwrocratiaeth, a sicrhau y gwnawn benderfyniadau Cymru-gyfan sydd yn ddemocrataidd atebol. Mae’n bwysig y gall cleifion, meddygon, nyrsys a ffisiotherapyddion weld i ble yr aiff yr arian. Yn ei hanfod, mae’n ffordd symlach o roi arian cyhoeddus i’r claf, a sicrhau y daw gwella iechyd a gofal sylfaenol yn realiti. Daw llawer o hynny i’r amlwg wrth ichi ddarllen y cynllun ac wrth inni ei drafod yn ystod yr wythnosau nesaf.
The staff of the area health authorities will be concerned at this announcement. Will you give a categorical assurance now that there will be no forced redundancies?
Bydd staff yr awdurdodau iechyd ardal yn pryderu ynghylch y cyhoeddiad hwn. A rowch chi sicrwydd pendant yn awr na cheir unrhyw ddiswyddiadau gorfodol?
This is not about staff reductions or job losses, but about making use of the skills and talents of all the staff. Those who work in the health authorities will move to work in local health groups, to help us in the Assembly and to work for public health. I have given a categorical assurance that there will be fair discussion and negotiation with all staff representatives and trade unions. Everyone will be treated fairly and consistently, and everyone will be working on behalf of the NHS in Wales.
Nid yw’r broses yn ymwneud â lleihau nifer y staff neu golli swyddi, mae’n ymwneud â defnyddio sgiliau a thalentau’r holl staff. Bydd y rheini sydd yn gweithio yn yr awdurdodau iechyd yn symud i weithio mewn grwpiau iechyd lleol, i’n helpu yn y Cynulliad ac i weithio ym maes iechyd cyhoeddus. Rhoddais sicrwydd pendant y cynhelir trafodaethau a negodiadau teg gyda’r holl gynrychiolwyr staff a’r undebau llafur. Caiff pawb eu trin yn deg ac yn gyson, a bydd pawb yn gweithio ar ran yr NHS yng Nghymru.
So the answer is ‘yes’?
Felly, ‘gallaf’ yw’r ateb?
It is a strong assurance, similar to that I gave the trade unions yesterday.
Mae’n sicrwydd cryf, yn debyg i’r sicrwydd a roddais i’r undebau llafur ddoe.
The answer is ‘no’.
Yr ateb yw ‘na allaf’.
So the answer is ‘yes’?
Felly, ‘gallaf’ yw’r ateb?
Dafydd Elis-Thomas The Presiding Officer spoken in English p. 104
Dafydd Elis-Thomas Y Llywydd siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 104
Order. Ron Davies has asked one supplementary.
Trefn. Mae Ron Davies wedi gofyn un cwestiwn atodol.
With this announcement the Minister has become state commissar for health. [LABOUR ASSEMBLY MEMBERS: ‘Hooray’.] You may cheer; it is confirmation. She clearly favours the ‘command and control’ approach to health, giving less freedom to frontline staff. I was astonished to hear Plaid Cymru suggesting that she is following a London line. She is going in the diametrically opposite direction. I would settle at the moment for the London line. I would not be satisfied with it but at least it would not cause the damage that these reforms are likely to cause.
Gyda’r cyhoeddiad hwn daeth y Gweinidog yn gomisâr gwladol dros iechyd. [AELODAU LLAFUR Y CYNULLIAD: ‘Hwre’.] Gallwch gymeradwyo; dyna gadarnhad. Mae’n amlwg ei bod o blaid yr ymagwedd ‘gorchymyn a rheoli’ tuag at iechyd, gan roi llai o ryddid i staff rheng flaen. Fe’m syfrdanwyd wrth glywed Plaid Cymru yn awgrymu ei bod yn dilyn safbwynt Llundain. Mae’n mynd i gyfeiriad cwbl groes. Byddwn yn barod i glywed safbwynt Llundain ar hyn o bryd. Ni fyddwn yn fodlon arni ond o leiaf ni fyddai’n achosi’r difrod y mae’r diwygiadau hyn yn debygol o’i achosi.
Let me spell out some of the consequences. Primary care will now be subject to ministerial diktat. Why is the Minister refusing to give local health authorities the option of trust status? We know that local health groups are calling for this option. The Audit Commission has already clearly picked up this intelligence. Why will you not give those groups the option of trust status? In England they will become trusts, in Wales they will not even have the option. While the Minister lamely calls for more joint working between health and social care, they will be forging ahead in England with integrated care trusts. Why is the Minister refusing to allow such innovation in Wales? We will again become a backwater; we are going backwards compared to other parts of the United Kingdom.
Gadewch imi amlygu rhai o’r canlyniadau. Bydd gofal sylfaenol yn awr yn amodol ar orchymyn gweinidogol. Pam fod y Gweinidog yn gwrthod rhoi opsiwn statws ymddiriedolaeth i awdurdodau iechyd lleol? Gwyddom fod grwpiau iechyd lleol yn galw am yr opsiwn hwn. Mae’r Comisiwn Archwilio eisoes wedi sylwi ar hyn. Pam na roddwch opsiwn statws ymddiriedolaeth i’r grwpiau hynny? Yn Lloegr dônt yn ymddiriedolaethau, yng Nghymru ni chânt y dewis hyd yn oed. Wrth i’r Gweinidog alw’n dila am fwy o gydweithio rhwng iechyd a gofal cymdeithasol, byddant ar flaen y gad yn Lloegr gydag ymddiriedolaethau gofal integredig. Pam fod y Gweinidog yn gwrthod caniatáu blaengaredd o’r fath yng Nghymru? Byddwn ar ôl yr oes unwaith eto; yr ydym yn mynd am yn ôl o’i gymharu â rhannau eraill o’r Deyrnas Unedig.
In fairness to the Minister, there is a strong argument for removing health authorities, but only in a system of local devolution that empowers the NHS at the community level. The Assembly should abandon this conceit that it can be responsible for the day-to-day running of the national health service. If we are to abolish health authorities, we should establish an arm’s-length Assembly agency, free from political interference. I fear that Dai Lloyd has again been misled by the Minister’s remarks; there is no hint at all that the Assembly will create an arm’s-length agency, independent from political interference. The Assembly will call the shots, which—as we know—translates as the Minister calling the shots. None of this has been discussed in Committee, far less in Plenary. The Minister’s diktats will determine the health service’s future in Wales.
I fod yn deg â’r Gweinidog, ceir dadl gref o blaid diddymu awdurdodau iechyd, ond dim ond o fewn system o ddatganoli lleol sydd yn rhoi pŵer i’r NHS ar lefel gymunedol. Dylai’r Cynulliad roi’r gorau i’r hunan-fodlonrwydd hwn fel y gall fod yn gyfrifol am redeg y gwasanaeth iechyd gwladol o ddydd i ddydd. Os ydym am ddiddymu awdurdodau iechyd, dylem sefydlu asiantaeth hyd braich i’r Cynulliad, a fydd yn rhydd o ymyrraeth wleidyddol. Ofnaf i Dai Lloyd gael ei gamarwain unwaith eto gan sylwadau’r Gweinidog; nid oes unrhyw awgrym y bydd y Cynulliad yn creu asiantaeth hyd braich, a fydd yn rhydd o ymyrraeth wleidyddol. Y Cynulliad fydd yn bennaf cyfrifol, sydd—fel y gwyddom—yn gyfystyr â dweud mai’r Gweinidog a fydd yn bennaf gyfrifol. Ni thrafodwyd hyn o gwbl yn y Pwyllgor, llai fyth mewn Cyfarfod Llawn. Gorchmynion y Gweinidog a fydd yn pennu dyfodol y gwasanaeth iechyd yng Nghymru.
We will not even have local health groups with trust status, as a counterweight to this centralised system. That, at least, would ensure protection if there were no health authorities. They will not have that protection; they will have to follow instructions received from Cardiff and the Minister’s office.
Ni fydd gennym hyd yn oed grwpiau iechyd lleol â statws ymddiriedolaeth, i wrthbwyso’r system ganolog hon. Byddai hynny, o leiaf, yn sicrhau diogelwch pe na byddai unrhyw awdurdodau iechyd. Ni fydd y diogelwch hynny ar gael; bydd yn rhaid iddynt ddilyn cyfarwyddiadau a geir o Gaerdydd a swyddfa’r Gweinidog.
I refer the Minister to a curious clause on remaining health authority duties in her statement. She said that the residual will be
Cyfeiriaf y Gweinidog at gymal rhyfedd yn ei datganiad ar ddyletswyddau awdurdod iechyd a fydd yn weddill. Dywedodd y bydd y gweddill
‘including a regional capacity in line with evidence on service provision and use by patients.’
‘yn cynnwys gallu rhanbarthol yn unol â thystiolaeth ar ddarparu gwasanaethau a’r defnydd gan gleifion.’
Will we still have some form of health authority? What will the regional agencies be? How will you have a regional capacity? What will it be? How will it strip out a level of bureaucracy if you still have a regional level of management? We need definition on that.
A fydd gennym ryw fath o awdurdod iechyd o hyd? Beth fydd yr asiantaethau rhanbarthol? Sut y bydd gennych allu rhanbarthol? Beth fydd y gallu hwn? Sut y bydd yn gwaredu lefel o fiwrocratiaeth os bydd lefel ranbarthol o reolwyr yn parhau? Mae angen diffiniad o hynny arnom.
Today, we see the heavy hand of state socialism directing the national health service, introduced by an administration that has singly failed to deliver its central promise in the health service of cutting waiting lists. It failed to deliver there and I fear that that failure will be repeated when the March figures are released. That will be an aggravated failure because, after the first failure to cut waiting lists, the Minister, foolishly, made an extravagant promise to cut them by 15,000 by March. After that colossal failure, we are given the assurance that the national health service can be run best by the Minister interfering day to day. It is a recipe for disaster. I hope that, when we discuss these matters in Committee and Plenary, we can ensure that the Minister sees sense and recants this ridiculous position.
Heddiw, gwelwn law drom sosialaeth y wladwriaeth yn cyfeirio’r gwasanaeth iechyd gwladol, wedi’i gyflwyno gan weinyddiaeth sydd wedi methu â chyflwyno ei haddewid ganolog o fewn y gwasanaeth iechyd i gwtogi rhestrau aros. Methodd â chyflwyno hynny ac ofnaf y caiff y methiant hwnnw ei ailadrodd pan ryddheir ffigurau Mawrth. Bydd hynny’n fethiant gwaeth oherwydd, ar ôl y methiant cyntaf i gwtogi rhestrau aros, gwnaeth y Gweinidog, yn wirion, addewid eithafol i’w cwtogi o 15,000 erbyn Mawrth. Ar ôl y methiant anferthol hwnnw, rhoddir y sicrwydd inni mai’r Gweinidog sydd yn y sefyllfa orau i redeg y gwasanaeth iechyd gwladol drwy ymyrryd o ddydd i ddydd. Mae hynny’n gofyn am drwbl. Gobeithiaf, wrth drafod y materion hyn yn y Pwyllgor ac mewn Cyfarfod Llawn, y gallwn sicrhau y daw’r Gweinidog at ei choed gan dynnu ei geiriau yn ôl er mwyn diarddel y fath sefyllfa wirion.
That was an extraordinarily arrogant contribution from David because the Welsh Conservatives are in the Chamber today thanks to a Labour Government devolution policy and our electoral system. You obviously have not listened to our debates in the Health and Services Committee about getting services directly to the patients and ensuring that local health groups have a future in commissioning primary health care, in partnership with local government. That is their ambition and our ambition for them. LHGs are multi-disciplinary groups of professionals working at community level, who want commissioning power.
Dyna beth oedd cyfraniad eithriadol o drahaus gan David gan mai diolch i bolisi datganoli Llywodraeth Lafur a’n system etholiadol y mae Ceidwadwyr Cymru yn y Siambr heddiw. Mae’n amlwg na wrandawsoch ar ein dadleuon yn y Pwyllgor Iechyd a Chymdeithasol ynghylch cyflwyno gwasanaethau yn uniongyrchol i’r cleifion a sicrhau bod gan grwpiau iechyd lleol ddyfodol wrth gomisiynu gofal iechyd sylfaenol, mewn partneriaeth â llywodraeth leol. Dyna yw eu huchelgais a’n huchelgais ni ar eu cyfer hwy. Grwpiau aml-ddisgyblaethol o bobl broffesiynol yn gweithio ar lefel gymunedol, sydd am gael pŵer i gomisiynu yw’r GILl.
The only structural change that I have announced today is the abolition of health authorities. We want to put decision-making back into local communities, with staff and patients, not into the board rooms. We want to put it back where people are democratically elected, as we are in this Chamber, to make decisions and be directly accountable for how our public money and resources are allocated and distributed. That is the purpose of my statement today. In Wales, we can deliver directly and ensure, as Dai said, that we have all-Wales strategic priorities and frameworks, while recognising that we need decision-making at a local level, through local health groups in every community. In Blaenau Gwent, there will be a strong local health group, as in every local authority area of Wales. It is about local decision-making and, at Assembly level, contribution by democratically-elected Members.
Yr unig newid strwythurol a gyhoeddais heddiw yw diddymu awdurdodau iechyd. Yr ydym am sicrhau y caiff cymunedau lleol, staff a chleifion eu cynnwys wrth wneud penderfyniadau, yn hytrach na’u bod yn cael eu gwneud mewn ystafelloedd bwrdd. Yr ydym am ddychwelyd i sefyllfa lle y caiff pobl eu hethol yn ddemocrataidd, fel sydd yn digwydd yn y Siambr hon, i wneud penderfyniadau ac i fod yn uniongyrchol atebol am y ffordd y caiff ein harian cyhoeddus a’n hadnoddau eu dyrannu a’u dosbarthu. Dyna ddiben fy natganiad heddiw. Yng Nghymru, gallwn gyflwyno’n uniongyrchol a sicrhau, fel y dywedodd Dai, fod gennym flaenoriaethau a fframweithiau strategol Cymru-gyfan, tra’n cydnabod bod angen gwneud penderfyniadau ar lefel leol, drwy grwpiau iechyd lleol ymhob cymuned. Ym Mlaenau Gwent, bydd grŵp iechyd lleol cryf, fel ymhob ardal awdurdod lleol yng Nghymru. Mae’n ymwneud â gwneud penderfyniadau yn lleol ac, ar lefel y Cynulliad, gyfraniad gan Aelodau sydd wedi’u hethol yn ddemocrataidd.
This is also about listening to staff, doctors and nurses. I am listening to what they say. They ask why the money is not going to the hospitals and to the patients. It is going through several tiers of bureaucracy. I am stripping away tiers of bureaucracy that you put in place through unaccountable public bodies. That is what I am doing with this plan. I hope that you will recognise, David, that I have said that I have made one decision. The implementation now starts with consultation and with the kind of discussions and negotiations and inclusive framework that I always adopt. From this day on, we will consult on implementation. However, the decision has been made to get the money to the patients and to have democracy in the health service in Wales.
Mae hyn hefyd yn ymwneud â gwrando ar staff, meddygon a nyrsys. Gwrandawaf ar yr hyn sydd ganddynt i’w ddweud. Gofynnant pam nad yw’r arian yn mynd i’r ysbytai ac i’r cleifion. Mae’n mynd drwy sawl haen o fiwrocratiaeth. Yr wyf yn cael gwared ar haenau o fiwrocratiaeth a sefydlwyd gennych drwy gyrff cyhoeddus nad oeddent yn atebol. Dyna fy mwriad gyda’r cynllun hwn. Gobeithiaf y byddwch yn cydnabod, David, y dywedais imi wneud un penderfyniad. Yn awr cam cyntaf y gweithredu yw ymgynghori a chynnal y math o drafodaethau a negodiadau a fframwaith cynhwysol a fabwysiadaf bob amser. O heddiw ymlaen, byddwn yn ymgynghori ar weithredu. Fodd bynnag, gwnaethpwyd y penderfyniad i gael yr arian i’r cleifion ac i gael democratiaeth yn y gwasanaeth iechyd yng Nghymru.
I thank Jane for her strong statement and leadership today, despite the detractors in this Chamber. I welcome the statement, especially if LHGs are to be strengthened with workforce capabilities. It has been my understanding at a local level that LHGs are working with limited resources. We are asking them to do a big job, but they do not always have the means by which to do it.
Diolchaf i Jane am ei datganiad a’i harweinyddiaeth gref heddiw, er gwaethaf y difriwyr yn y Siambr hon. Croesawaf y datganiad, yn arbennig os caiff GILl eu hatgyfnerthu o ran eu gweithlu. Yr wyf ar ddeall ar lefel leol bod GILl yn gweithio gydag adnoddau cyfyngedig. Mae tasg enfawr ganddynt, ond nid oes ganddynt yr adnoddau i’w chyflawni bob amser.
I welcome the removal of the extra tier, because it is the right decision. Flat structures are part of our ideology, whereas tall structures are part of David’s ideology, and I understand the difference between them. Will the removal of the extra tier mean that the historic debt and recovery plans will now be re-examined? For example, in my constituency, the Carmarthen and District NHS Trust suffered by picking up the historic debt from other parts of Dyfed Powys Health Authority. The Pembrokeshire and Derwen NHS Trust suffered even more. It consistently told me that, were it not for the unexpected debt imposed on it, it would have been able to provide a community hospital for south-east Pembrokeshire to replace the services currently provided by Tenby Cottage Hospital. I would like to hear your views on whether the historic debt and recovery plans will be re-examined. I realise that my contribution was rather parochial, for which I apologise. I say to Dr Dai Lloyd that it is not centralisation that threatens Tenby. Rather, it is the proposed dispersal of the service over several sites that is so exercising the people of Tenby and south-east Pembrokeshire. Therefore, we differ on that point.
Croesawaf ein bod yn cael gwared ar yr haenen ychwanegol, gan mai dyma yw’r penderfyniad cywir. Mae strwythurau gwastad yn rhan o’n syniadaeth, a strwythurau tal yn rhan o syniadaeth David, a deallaf y gwahaniaeth rhyngddynt. A fydd cael gwared ar yr haen ychwanegol yn golygu y bydd y ddyled hanesyddol a’r cynlluniau adfer yn awr yn cael eu hailarchwilio? Er enghraifft, yn fy etholaeth, dioddefodd Ymddiriedolaeth GIG Caerfyrddin a’r Dosbarth drwy etifeddu’r ddyled hanesyddol o rannau eraill o Awdurdod Iechyd Dyfed Powys. Dioddefodd Ymddiriedolaeth GIG Sir Benfro a Derwen yn fwy fyth. Dywedodd yn rheolaidd wrthyf, heblaw am y ddyled annisgwyl a osodwyd arni, y byddai wedi gallu darparu ysbyty cymunedol i dde-ddwyrain Sir Benfro i ddisodli'r gwasanaethau a ddarperir ar hyn o bryd gan Ysbyty Bwthyn Dinbych-y-Pysgod. Hoffwn glywed eich safbwyntiau ynghylch a gaiff y ddyled hanesyddol a’r cynlluniau adfer eu hailarchwilio. Sylweddolaf fod fy nghyfraniad braidd yn blwyfol, ac ymddiheuraf am hynny. Dywedaf wrth Dr Dai Lloyd nad canoli yw’r bygythiad i Ddinbych-y-Pysgod. Yn hytrach, dosbarthiad arfaethedig y gwasanaeth dros sawl safle sydd yn poeni pobl Dinbych-y-Pysgod a de-ddwyrain Sir Benfro. Felly, anghytunwn ar y pwynt hwnnw.
I welcome your support for today’s announcement, Christine. Local health groups will be able to extend their commissioning functions in terms of community and primary care, by working in partnership with local government. By having an elected member in the local health group, we will ensure democratic accountability. I inherited a difficult financial position from the previous Government, but we will not go over that now. However, it has caused problems in terms of financial arrangements. The numerous tiers have led to a fog about who is responsible for what and how to tackle problems, and how we can distribute our resources fairly and equitably. That has been at the forefront of my agenda.
Croesawaf eich cefnogaeth i gyhoeddiad heddiw, Christine. Bydd grwpiau iechyd lleol yn gallu ehangu eu swyddogaethau comisiynu yn nhermau gofal cymunedol a sylfaenol, drwy weithio mewn partneriaeth â llywodraeth leol. Drwy gael aelod etholedig yn y grŵp iechyd lleol, byddwn yn sicrhau atebolrwydd democrataidd. Etifeddais sefyllfa ariannol anodd gan y Llywodraeth flaenorol, ond ni thrafodwn hynny yn awr. Fodd bynnag, achosodd broblemau yn nhermau trefniadau ariannol. O ganlyniad i’r haenau niferus, bu dryswch ynghylch pwy sydd yn gyfrifol am beth a sut i fynd i’r afael â phroblemau, a sut y gallwn ddosbarthu ein hadnoddau yn deg ac yn gyfiawn. Bu hyn yn flaenllaw ar fy agenda.
On national and local equity, in terms of health inequalities and regional and local differences, that will all become apparent with the implementation of the plan. Those detailed issues will be carefully considered and will become clearer to you, Christine, as an Assembly representative in your community.
O ran ecwiti cenedlaethol a lleol, yn nhermau anghydraddoldebau iechyd a gwahaniaethau rhanbarthol a lleol, daw hynny oll yn amlwg wrth weithredu’r cynllun. Ystyrir y materion manwl hynny yn ofalus a dônt yn gliriach ichi, Christine, fel un o gynrychiolwyr y Cynulliad yn eich cymuned.
I declare an interest as the husband of a community midwife. As a new member of the Health and Social Services Committee, I was surprised to see that this has been announced with little or no consultation, and its impact must be considered. I am glad that you realise that lots of money has been wasted by the bureaucracy of numerous management tiers. I hope that money saved in that area can be used to deliver healthcare to patients at the front line. To clarify Dai’s point, to which David Melding referred, the Minister has followed the London line up until now.
Datganaf fuddiant fel gŵr i fydwraig gymunedol. Fel aelod newydd o’r Pwyllgor Iechyd a Gwasanaethau Cymdeithasol, fe’m syfrdanwyd i glywed y gwnaethpwyd y cyhoeddiad hwn heb lawer o ymgynghori, os o gwbl, a rhaid ystyried ei effaith. Yr wyf yn falch eich bod yn sylweddoli y gwastraffwyd llawer o arian gan fiwrocratiaeth haenau rheoli niferus. Gobeithiaf y gellir defnyddio’r arian a arbedir yn y maes hwnnw i gyflwyno gofal iechyd i gleifion yn y rheng flaen. I egluro pwynt Dai, y cyfeiriodd David Melding ato, mae’r Gweinidog wedi dilyn safbwynt Llundain hyd yn hyn.
Has a decision been made in terms of the difficulty experienced by Gwent Health Authority in recruiting a chief executive? Will the money saved be used immediately to recruit nurses, midwives, doctors, consultants and other professions allied to medicine? General practitioners are needed in particular, because there is a growing crisis due to the number of GPs retiring. Thirty years ago we employed many doctors from overseas who have now reached retirement age, which means that we have a shortfall. On this already sober day, we need more healthcare professionals. Finally, will you answer Ron Davies’s question with a yes or a no?
A wnaethpwyd penderfyniad yn nhermau’r anhawster a brofwyd gan Awdurdod Iechyd Gwent wrth recriwtio prif weithredwr? A ddefnyddir yr arian a arbedir ar unwaith i recriwtio nyrsys, bydwragedd, meddygon, ymgynghorwyr a phobl broffesiynol eraill sydd yn gysylltiedig â meddygaeth? Mae angen meddygon teulu yn arbennig, gan fod argyfwng cynyddol o ganlyniad i nifer y meddygon teulu sydd yn ymddeol. Ddeng mlynedd ar hugain yn ôl cyflogwyd llawer o feddygon o dramor sydd bellach wedi cyrraedd oed ymddeol, sydd yn golygu fod diffyg gennym. Ar y diwrnod hwn sydd eisoes yn brudd, mae angen mwy o bobl broffesiynol ym maes gofal iechyd arnom. Yn olaf, a atebwch gwestiwn Ron Davies gyda ‘gallaf’ neu ‘na allaf’?
I have made it clear, Brian, that this is not a cost-cutting exercise in which jobs will be lost. The misleading and mischievous information leaked last night is damaging to what is an important announcement that establishes a new way of bringing services closer to patients and staff, and ensures that staff can do the work that they are qualified, ready and prepared to do. It is not a cost-cutting exercise. It is important that we enable our officials, through Committee consultation, to move forward in terms of implementation. It will be implemented in partnership with staff and their representatives. It is also about recognising that people who work in health authorities will be working for the health service. They may be working more to strengthen LGHs, which many will welcome, and they may be working more in a public health capacity or with the Assembly in fulfilling their roles. However, they have roles, and we are stripping away a layer of bureaucracy, which is key to ensure that our resources get to the patients and that we know how they get to them. People tell me that that is what they want.
Yr wyf wedi egluro, Brian, nad ymarfer cwtogi costau lle y caiff swyddi eu colli yw hwn. Mae’r wybodaeth gamarweiniol a drygionus a ollyngwyd neithiwr yn niweidiol i’r cyhoeddiad pwysig hwn, sydd yn sefydlu ffordd newydd o ddod â gwasanaethau yn agosach at gleifion a staff, ac yn sicrhau y gall staff wneud y gwaith y maent yn gymwys ar ei gyfer ac y maent yn barod i’w wneud. Nid ymarfer cwtogi costau ydyw. Mae’n bwysig inni alluogi ein swyddogion, drwy ymgynghori yn y Pwyllgor, i symud ymlaen yn nhermau gweithredu. Fe’i gweithredir mewn partneriaeth â staff a’u cynrychiolwyr. Mae hefyd yn ymwneud â chydnabod y bydd y bobl sydd yn gweithio mewn awdurdodau iechyd yn gweithio i’r gwasanaeth iechyd. Efallai y byddant yn gweithio fwy i atgyfnerthu GILl, y bydd llawer yn ei groesawu, ac efallai y byddant yn gweithio fwy mewn rhinwedd iechyd cyhoeddus neu gyda’r Cynulliad wrth gyflawni eu rolau. Fodd bynnag, mae ganddynt rolau, ac yr ydym yn cael gwared ar haen o fiwrocratiaeth, sydd yn allweddol i sicrhau bod ein hadnoddau yn cyrraedd y cleifion a’n bod yn gwybod sut y cyrhaeddant hwy. Dywed pobl wrthyf mai dyna beth y maent ei eisiau.
Today’s announcement responds to the needs of NHS Cymru, which include the need for clear, strategic leadership from the centre and the flexibility to mould local services so that local communities get the services that they need and want. It also ends the uncertainty about the future of the LGHs and the instability arising from that. As David Melding knows, we have heard a great deal about this matter in Committee, and now the Minister is providing us with what he has called for all along—a strategic vision of how the local health groups will go forward. That decision will free them from the yoke. No wonder they have been calling for trust status. They have not been allowed to develop in the way that they want because they have been sat on by health authorities, which have been protecting their own backs.
Mae cyhoeddiad heddiw yn ymateb i anghenion NHS Cymru, sydd yn cynnwys yr angen am arweinyddiaeth glir, strategol o’r canol a’r hyblygrwydd i addasu gwasanaethau lleol er mwyn i gymunedau lleol gael y gwasanaethau sydd eu hangen arnynt ac y mae arnynt eu heisiaul. Rhydd derfyn hefyd ar yr ansicrwydd ynghylch dyfodol GILl a’r ansefydlogrwydd sydd yn deillio o hynny. Fel y gŵyr David Melding, clywsom lawer am y mater hwn yn y Pwyllgor, ac yn awr mae’r Gweinidog yn darparu’r hyn y bu’n galw amdano o’r cychwyn—gweledigaeth strategol o’r ffordd y bydd y grwpiau iechyd lleol yn datblygu. Bydd y penderfyniad hwnnw yn eu rhyddhau o’r iau. Does ryfedd iddynt alw am statws ymddiriedolaeth. Ni chaniatawyd iddynt ddatblygu fel y maent am ddatblygu gan y bu awdurdodau iechyd yn gwasgu arnynt, wrth geisio amddiffyn eu hunain.
However, the time for debate is later. I will ask Jane some questions. Will you confirm that the leadership that will come from the centre will end the confusion in the service about what is expected of it, and what its priorities should be, and that it will allow for the clear, strategic, all-Wales planning on issues like the ambulance service? Will you confirm that management will consider regional capacity and the reality of patient flow that does not currently exist, including cross-border and cross-valley issues? Will you also give a commitment that the enhancement of local health groups’ role will give us an opportunity to see the membership increase through local authority representation, and to consider how to enhance representations from nurses and professions allied to medicine? Finally, following the blurring of the purchaser/provider split that these changes afford, is it not true that we will need to elicit enhanced lines of accountability and performance management measures? If so, does that not mean the provision of enhanced services to the people of Wales?
Fodd bynnag, daw amser i drafod yn hwyrach. Gofynnaf rai cwestiynau i Jane. A gadarnhewch y bydd yr arweinyddiaeth a ddaw o’r canol yn rhoi terfyn ar y dryswch yn y gwasanaeth o ran yr hyn a ddisgwylir ohono, a beth ddylai fod yn flaenoriaethau iddo, ac y bydd yn caniatáu ar gyfer y gwaith cynllunio clir, strategol, Cymru-gyfan ar faterion fel y gwasanaeth ambiwlans? A gadarnhewch y bydd y rheolwyr yn ystyried gallu rhanbarthol a’r realiti llif cleifion nad yw’n bodoli ar hyn o bryd, gan gynnwys materion trawsffiniol ac ar draws dyffrynnoedd? A roddwch ymrwymiad hefyd y bydd y broses o gyfoethogi rôl grwpiau iechyd lleol yn rhoi cyfle inni weld cynnydd o ran aelodau drwy gynrychiolaeth awdurdodau lleol, ac i ystyried sut i gyfoethogi cynrychioliadau gan nyrsys a’r proffesiynau sydd yn gysylltiedig â meddygaeth? Yn olaf, yn dilyn cyfuno’r rhaniad prynwr/darparwr a geir yn sgîl y newidiadau hyn, oni fydd angen inni dynnu gwell llinellau o atebolrwydd a mesurau rheoli perfformiad? Os felly, oni olyga hynny y darperir gwell gwasanaethau i bobl Cymru?
This plan and my announcement is a final death blow to the internal market that we inherited from the previous Government, which had destroyed and divided the health service for two decades. Now, we are rebuilding and renewing the health service in a way that would make Aneurin Bevan proud. When he enabled people to get a free health service, he did not envisage the tiers of management and bureaucracy with which we ended up in a small country like Wales.
Mae’r cynllun hwn a’m cyhoeddiad yn ergyd farwol derfynol i’r farchnad fewnol a etifeddasom gan y Llywodraeth flaenorol, a ddinistriodd ac a rannodd y gwasanaeth iechyd am ddau ddegawd. Yn awr, yr ydym yn ailadeiladu ac yn adnewyddu’r gwasanaeth iechyd mewn ffordd y byddai Aneurin Bevan yn ymfalchïo ynddi. Wrth sefydlu gwasanaeth iechyd am ddim i bobl, ni ragwelodd yr haenau o reolaeth a’r fiwrocratiaeth a ddaeth i’r amlwg mewn gwlad fach fel Cymru.
Do you agree that—
A gytunwch—
Dafydd Elis-Thomas The Presiding Officer spoken in English p. 111
Dafydd Elis-Thomas Y Llywydd siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 111
Order. This is not a debate. The Minister is answering questions arising from her statement. I have not called you to ask a question. Do you want to ask one?
Trefn. Nid dadl yw hon. Mae’r Gweinidog yn ateb cwestiynau sydd yn codi o’i datganiad. Ni alwais arnoch i ofyn cwestiwn. A ydych am ofyn cwestiwn?
I was intervening, but if that is out of order, I will accept that.
Yr oeddwn yn torri ar draws, ond os yw hynny allan o drefn, derbyniaf hynny.
Dafydd Elis-Thomas The Presiding Officer spoken in English p. 111
Dafydd Elis-Thomas Y Llywydd siaradwyd yn Saesneg t. 111
I am afraid that it is. The problem is that some statements appear more like debates and that is not the Minister’s fault.
Ofnaf ei fod. Y broblem yw bod rhai datganiadau yn ymddangos yn fwy fel dadleuon ac nid bai’r Gweinidog yw hynny.
On Kirsty’s points, this is about strengthening the central and the local capacity. Unlike us, David Melding clearly was not listening to the local health groups that came to the Health and Social Services Committee and said that they wanted the capacity to drive forward the health and social care agenda of the people in Wales. They are trained and wish to do the job at the sharp end. This means that we can implement many of the views arising from ‘Access and Excellence’, which I wish David had read. That document includes vast consultation from around Wales. We have a participatory way of developing Government in this country, towards which David contributes in his more constructive moments, but not today.
Ar bwyntiau Kirsty, mae hyn yn ymwneud ag atgyfnerthu’r gallu canolog a’r gallu lleol. Yn wahanol i ni, mae’n amlwg nad oedd David Melding yn gwrando ar y grwpiau iechyd lleol a ddaeth i’r Pwyllgor Iechyd a Gwasanaethau Cymdeithasol gan ddatgan eu bod eisiau’r gallu i lywio agenda iechyd a gofal cymdeithasol ar gyfer pobl yng Nghymru. Maent wedi’u hyfforddi ac am gymryd rhan weithredol yn y gwaith. Golyga hyn y gallwn weithredu llawer o’r safbwyntiau sydd yn deillio o ‘Mynediad a Rhagoriaeth’, y byddai’n dda petai David wedi’i ddarllen. Mae’r ddogfen honno yn cynnwys ymgynghoriad eang o bob cwr o Gymru. Mae gennym ffordd gyfrannol o ddatblygu Llywodraeth yn y wlad hon, y mae David yn cyfrannu ati yn ystod ei gyfnodau mwy adeiladol, ond nid heddiw.
On the strategic direction of how we allocate our resources, end the confusion that results from tiers of bureaucracy, and particularly as more money goes into the service, it is so frustrating for people when that money does not reach their national health service, health centres or hospitals. This will ensure that we cut down on bureaucracy and ensure that the money reaches the patient.
O ran y penderfyniad strategol ynghylch sut y byddwn yn dyrannu ein hadnoddau, rhoi terfyn ar y dryswch sydd yn deillio o haenau o fiwrocratiaeth, ac yn benodol wrth i fwy o arian fynd i’r gwasanaeth, mae’n rhwystredig iawn i bobl pan na fydd yr arian hwnnw yn cyrraedd eu gwasanaeth iechyd gwladol, eu canolfannau iechyd neu eu hysbytai. Bydd hyn yn sicrhau ein bod yn lleihau biwrocratiaeth ac yn sicrhau bod yr arian yn cyrraedd y claf.
Dafydd Elis-Thomas Y Llywydd siaradwyd yn Gymraeg ac yn Saesneg t. 112
Dafydd Elis-Thomas The Presiding Officer spoken in Welsh and English p. 112
Diolchaf i’r Gweinidog dros Iechyd a Gwasanaethau Cymdeithasol.
in Welsh I thank the Minister for Health and Social Services.
We have had over half an hour on this statement at the end of a long day.
yn Saesneg Treuliwyd dros hanner awr ar y datganiad hwn ar ddiwedd diwrnod hir.
Diolchaf i’r Cynulliad yn dilyn ein cyfarfod hwyaf hyd yn hyn, fe gredaf, ac un o’r mwyaf difrifol yn sicr.
in Welsh I thank the Assembly on what I believe to be our longest session to date, and certainly one of the most sombre.
Daeth y cyfarfod i ben am 1.28 p.m.
The session ended at 1.28 p.m.